# looking for some new floor speakers



## jennavixenxxoo (Sep 13, 2015)

Hey yall,

I'm looking to upgrade my current 2.1 system and go for some high quality floor-standing tower speakers. I'm completely undecided as to what I should be looking for though as far as brand and which speaker to go for. Any advice? I don't want to spend more than $500 or around there.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Hi,

Perhaps you could share your room size, types of music you listen to, how loud, etc.?
Quite a few floor speakers <$500 out there. Have you managed to audition any you like?
While its good to have others opinions, ultimately, you should know what sound/look you prefer most.

cheers


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## jennavixenxxoo (Sep 13, 2015)

Well, these will be for music as well as part of my entertainment system (movies/gaming/etc.) The room is 11 x 14. I don't need anything too too loud as I live in a town house and my neighbors probably would not appreciate it lol.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Another option would be to find used speakers which is a favorite way of mine to buy speakers. There are a lot of great used speakers on the market for a great price, plus you can listen to them before you buy.


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## Marksas (Sep 11, 2012)

You say you have a 2.1 system so I'm assuming you have a sub? If so you could save some cash and get some decent bookshelf speakers as another option.


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## jennavixenxxoo (Sep 13, 2015)

I've been spending way too much time reading about speakers today lol :scratch: I found this http://www.pricenfees.com/best-floor-standing-speakers.html and went from there. I thought I made my mind up on the Fluance XL7F's as they seem to get pretty good reviews everywhere I've looked and they're right in my price range, but now I'm having second thoughts based on these suggestions..

I do have a subwoofer already (Klipsch), do you think I'm better off going for bookshelf speakers instead? What is the difference between a floor speaker and a bookshelf speaker, less bass output?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

jennavixenxxoo said:


> I do have a subwoofer already (Klipsch), do you think I'm better off going for bookshelf speakers instead? What is the difference between a floor speaker and a bookshelf speaker, less bass output?


Generally, yes, the floorstander will have deeper/more bass and an edge in sensitivity, i.e., play louder with the same amount of power.
Again, the number of choices <$500 is very large. No one call tell you better what sound you will prefer....than you.
For example, the $300/pr Infinity 363 is well engineered, measures very well, beat a >$10k B&W in a blind listening test...and there is absolutely no guarantee you will like them, despite all the positive reviews and accolades.

cheers


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

ajinfla said:


> For example, the $300/pr Infinity 363 .... beat a >$10k B&W in a blind listening test...


Hold the presses! The Law of Diminishing Returns has been obliterated! Famous recording studios and audiophiles everywhere are finally abandoning the high-end for entry-level gear! :blink:

Seriously? Is your claim designed to educate, or just to agitate? Please link us to the details of that blind test. The 363's may be over-achievers and bang-for-the-buck exceptions, but even they cannot possibly reproduce sound as accurately as any engineering tour-de-force. Yet Infinity has surmounted traditional engineering obstacles and compromises to produce a $300 marvel of physics which performs subjectively as well as a model costing thousands more (even when stripped of markup and perceived value). Amazing how Infinity has dispensed with snake-oil and is cornering the market with the 363. I should go out and get my pair immediately, before Infinity realizes their mistake and price-matches the B&W's. :rofl:


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Lumen said:


> Seriously?


Yes Lou. Where have you been where you are unaware of this? _Blind_ test. Not sighted. Ears only. You (and other audiophiles) listen blind at home? Ever?



Lumen said:


> The 363's may be over-achievers and bang-for-the-buck exceptions, but even they cannot possibly reproduce sound as accurately as any engineering tour-de-force.


Well, they only needed to be decently engineered (which they are), to win a ears only test against these glaring *audio* problems:








"Marketing engineering" tour-de-force is for priori knowledge/biased sighted "listening". Different winner entirely there.



Lumen said:


> I should go out and get my pair immediately, before Infinity realizes their mistake and price-matches the B&W's. :rofl:


Only if you trust your ears.
Did I mention you (and the OP) might _not_ like them? Oh that's right, I did...


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Remember who owns Infinity and how much R&D/buying power is behind that... They could afford to drop the price on the 363's just to cut farther into B&W's market share. 

But based on this thread and the review on the Polk T Series, I'm toying with picking some of each (Polk/Infinity) and doing a shootout between them... just out of curiosity.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

ajinfla said:


> Yes Lou. Where have you been where you are unaware of this? _Blind_ test. Not sighted. Ears only. You (and other audiophiles) listen blind at home? Ever?


Only too aware, AJ. Are you aware of Floyd Toole's engineering research regarding the audibility of small design changes in loudspeakers? *I still don't see a link to the blind test you cite.* Just trying to stem the flow of misinformation. Blind testing debates rage on with each side emerging as self-proclaimed victors, and I don't need them to determine "glaring" problems (unless my hearing aid's batteries are low). :snoring:



ajinfla said:


> Well, they only needed to be decently engineered (which they are), to win a ears only test against these glaring *audio* problems:


Glaring to whom? Can you produce references citing a consensus that the measured "distortion" shown above actually correlates with a "problem" in the real world? My turn to ask: "Where have you been living?" Speaker specs always correlate well with listener perception--everyone knows that. :sarcastic:



ajinfla said:


> Only if you trust your ears.
> Did I mention you (and the OP) might _not_ like them? Oh that's right, I did...


I trust my ears as much as my open mind. I'm willing to concede I might like the 363's--and even that they so closely approach the 602's sound that they are virtually indistinguishable from them--but that doesn't translate into a preference for them. I might fail a blind test to that effect, but afterward I'd be willing to admit it. Can you keep an open mind and concede that there may be certain aspects to our hearing that can't currently be measured?


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

DqMcClain said:


> Remember who owns Infinity and how much R&D/buying power is behind that... They could afford to drop the price on the 363's just to cut farther into B&W's market share.
> 
> But based on this thread and the review on the Polk T Series, I'm toying with picking some of each (Polk/Infinity) and doing a shootout between them... just out of curiosity.


Excellent. Kudo's.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

To address OP's question about bookshelf speakers...

If you're happy with your subwoofer, then having a smaller pair of speakers at ear level might be more aesthetically pleasing, easier on the wallet, or you might get a better quality of sound for your money. 

If your sub is doing good work below, say, 100Hz, then you don't need to spend money getting a floor speaker with stellar response down to the mid 40's, since that's just going to either muddy up your bass, or get chopped off by a crossover. 

As mentioned above, the aesthetics of a speaker will affect your perception of the sound (though it is purely psychosomatic). An idea worth considering.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Lumen said:


> *I still don't see a link to the blind test you cite.*


http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2008/12/part-3-relationship-between-loudspeaker.html
Speaker "B" is the 802.



Lumen said:


> Blind testing debates rage on with each side emerging as self-proclaimed victors


Not among rational, scientific, technically literate folks.
That's why every major orchestra uses blind tests to select performers. The old man audiophile methods have been tossed. All of a sudden there is a 25% increase in female players. Go figure.



Lumen said:


> Glaring to whom?


Again, the folks who trust their ears. Don't need bling look, price tag info, magazine swoons and street cred rumors.



Lumen said:


> I trust my ears as much as my open mind.


Nothing else to trust _but_ your ears in a Harman style blind test.



Lumen said:


> I'm willing to concede I might like the 363's--and even that they so closely approach the 602's sound that they are virtually indistinguishable from them--but that doesn't translate into a preference for them. I might fail a blind test to that effect, but afterward I'd be willing to admit it. Can you keep an open mind and concede that there may be certain aspects to our hearing that can't currently be measured?


Only one way to find out which your ears prefer. Harman allows visits.

Btw, I just noticed what speakers you own....never mind. I should have realized earlier.

Did I mention both you and the OP _might not_ like the 363s? Oh yes, I did....

And now back to what speakers for <$500. Any thoughts on that one Lou?

cheers,


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Interesting AJ, a test sponsored by a Harmon employee, the same company that owns JBL. No special interests there. 

The use the blind test in classical music to ensure that men and women are given an even chance at winning a seat and cannot be applied to listening to speakers at all. 

When it comes to speakers, people in general pick by visuals when it comes to the less costly speakers. This covers electronics as well, must look cool to be acceptable, even in the high end. I have read in many audio societies as well as these pages that although there is no difference in the sound of amps or most electronics but yet thousands are spent on these items even though something cheaper is available. 

To follow the grain of the question, I have heard the JBL and they work well, and play very loud but were not necessarily for me. However I would also recommend the Pioneer Speakers that were designed by Andrew Jones and for sale at Best Buy. I have not heard these speakers but the reviews are tremendous, even from the high end reviewers.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Savjac said:


> Interesting AJ, a test sponsored by a Harmon employee, the same company that owns JBL. No special interests there.


And Infinity. And Lexicon. And Bang & Olufson. And Mark Levinson. And Harman/Kardon. And AKG. And Revel. 

And dBx, Soundcraft, Crown, Digitech, Roland, BSS, AMX, Studer, and Martin. 

Extra Points: Anyone know who owns Harman International?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Savjac said:


> Interesting AJ, a test sponsored by a Harmon employee, the same company that owns JBL. No special interests there.


And the decade previous at the National Research Council of Canada?
Or the Eureka-Archimedes project on the other side of the pond, that found the exact same thing?
How does the "Harman" Ad Hominem/Red Herring apply there? Hmmm...
Interesting.



Savjac said:


> The use the blind test in classical music to ensure that men and women are given an even chance at winning a seat and cannot be applied to listening to speakers at all.


No sir. Blind tests are used by rational scientific folks to eliminate bias. For speakers, or orchestra members.
Blind _audio_ tests eliminate biases and reduces one to *trusting their ears*, something audiophiles abhor.
That is why blind tests are the defacto standard of science. Be it analyzing the results of particle physics experiments, orchestra members or loudspeakers.



Savjac said:


> To follow the grain of the question, I have heard the JBL and they work well, and play very loud but were not necessarily for me. However I would also recommend the Pioneer Speakers that were designed by Andrew Jones and for sale at Best Buy. I have not heard these speakers but the reviews are tremendous, even from the high end reviewers.


JBL is not Infinity and btw, Andrew Jones was part of Eureka-Archimedes....and fully in line with Toole. Ooops.

p.s. saw Mike this weekend at the club meet. I'm sure he say hi.

cheers


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

ajinfla said:


> Not among rational, scientific, technically literate folks.


Who you callin' rational? :nerd:



ajinfla said:


> Btw, I just noticed what speakers you own....never mind. I should have realized earlier.


Yup. Surprise! I own Harman speakers. 



ajinfla said:


> And now back to what speakers for <$500. Any thoughts on that one Lou? cheers,


SVS Prime. 'Nuff said.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Lumen said:


> Yup. Surprise! I own Harman speakers.


Your system list says....



Lumen said:


> SVS Prime. 'Nuff said.


Bookshelfs?? The towers are $500...ea
Assumed the OP meant $500 total max.
Have you heard them?

cheers


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

ajinfla said:


> p.s. saw Mike this weekend at the club meet. I'm sure he say hi.
> 
> cheers


Ahh good, I have not spoken to Mike in a short while, thanks for reminding me he is still there. I did see some golf related mentions on facebook though so he is pretty busy. What do you think of his artwork ?? He is one talented man. 

As you may remember, I am not a believer in blind tests for audio as the vast majority of buyers will never use them. I also do not believe in their efficacy. Any test that always has the same results makes me believe its time to find another method, but please understand that is me. If I or anyone has visual biases, so be it. I would doubt, but I cannot say this as fact 100% of the time, that equipment sales do not work via blind tests, and as such, why use them. A manufacturer will construct their equipment based upon their preferences. These preferences may have a base in technology but voicing of the product will have a basis in listening. 
I have seen and heard one of your designs and I would be willing to bet Lumen's next paycheck that you design your speakers with software and listening to dial in the exact sound you were looking to reproduce ?


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Another tower speaker under $500:
Klipsch RF-62 II



ajinfla said:


> Blind tests are used by rational scientific folks to eliminate bias. For speakers, or orchestra members. Blind tests audio tests eliminate biases and reduces one to trusting their ears, something audiophiles abhor. That is why blind tests are the defacto standard of science. Be it analyzing the results of particle physics experiments, orchestra members or loudspeakers.


Irrational, evil audiophiles. Bad audiophiles. Bad,bad,bad. And no scientist ever doctored data from a blind test or manipulated conditions either intentionally or subconsciously. Go figure. Technically literate people (such as myself) can be audiophiles, too. They only need open minds. Science and physics explain the world, but sometimes they just don't know it yet (e.g. Before electricity came conjecture and experimentation). 

If it measures good but sounds bad, it is bad.
If it measures bad but sounds good, you've measured the wrong thing!


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Wow that was fun!
To the OP, I'll say I have almost always found towers to be more dynamic, even when as mentioned, throwing away the bottom end by crossing them to the sub. This is because of larger/more drivers, and as AJ said, sometimes higher sensitivity. You can surely have bookshelf speakers that "sound great", and even blend well with the sub, but they normally (IMO) lack dynamics,and the ability to provide life sized presentation. Many factors impact playback performance and unless there are aesthetics to worry about, I always say go for the towers. I think she(?) lives in a condo so also as mentioned maybe towers aren't the way to go, but as an investment,they are more future proof, say if she moves to a place where neighbors don't matter. (IMO). Then we'd be talking about dis I'm sure! Good call on the primes Lou. Fwiw, I kinda like my JBL's! Lol :stir:


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

ajinfla said:


> JBL is not Infinity and btw, Andrew Jones was part of Eureka-Archimedes....and fully in line with Toole. Ooops.
> 
> cheers


I was not making a comment re Andrew's background, I was just mentioning that he has designed a home theater set of speakers that have received good press and the price is well under $500. So just a suggestion here. 

And I am thinking that Toole has great influence on designs, he is not defining how each speaker should sound. This can be show in way of how many of his followers he has and yet how many different designs and sounds are released.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Savjac said:


> I was not making a comment re Andrew's background, I was just mentioning that he has designed a home theater set of speakers that have received good press and the price is well under $500. So just a suggestion here.


Understood, but he adheres to the smooth off axis Toole school, arrived at the same exact conclusion independently, with his own blind tests. No coincidence.



Savjac said:


> And I am thinking that Toole has great influence on designs, he is not defining how each speaker should sound. This can be show in way of how many of his followers he has and yet how many different designs and sounds are released.


"Toole" is the name audiophiles know, but they know nothing of the mountain he stands on. That pretty much defines the "sides".
As I have repeatedly stated, no guarantee OP or anyone else will prefer smooth on/off axis speakers, an example of such being the $300/pr 363s. Simply my suggestion as to one possible option within the stated budget.

cheers


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

To the OP... if you're looking to upgrade, Chane has been hitting it out of the park:

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers

Here's a review of the A2's.... http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...7865-chane-a2rx-c-5-0-loudspeaker-review.html


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## Marksas (Sep 11, 2012)

Moderators need to moderate themselves lol

…I've heard the Andrew Jones Pioneer towers and although i think they present enormous value, i was not impressed when i heard them, i felt they were too laid back for my taste. Depending on where one lives and what's available, buying speakers nowadays is such a crapshoot, so one has to rely a lot on reviews, others opinions, and 'aesthetics' (unless they really don't care). I literally only have a Best Buy near me and that is it, so i've always had to rely on hours of research and my knowledge. 

To the OP, best bet would be to if possible, go and listen locally to several speakers in your price range, and even listen to those that are above your price range. Reason being is that then you can then possibly find what you can't afford "in-store" but rather online for cheaper either on sale or even used, this is how i buy ALL MY GEAR, i never pay full price. As an example, one day at a Best Buy/ Magnolia Home Theater i listened to a pair of Martin Logan Motion 15 bookshelf speakers, i really enjoyed them but they were more than i wanted to spend. So i realized through some research that the previous model the Motion LX-16 is the same speaker as the Motion 15 minus one small aesthetic change and they were and are still on sale from Crutchfield for $239 ea, half the cost of the 15's! If you're any bit savvy there are tons of deals out there.
Other than that you might try buying speakers from one of the many internet direct companies that offer 30 day in home trials, like SVS mentioned above, Fluance, Aperion, etc. Btw, the Fluance XL7F gets a favorable review from Audioholics..
http://www.audioholics.com/tower-speaker-reviews/fluance-xl7f

If you want towers, you probably can't go wrong with all the ones mentioned so far in this thread and would come down to what you want to spend and what you prefer to have sitting in your living room.
- Andrew Jones / Pioneer FS52 - $126.99 Each currently on Amazon
- Infinity Primus 363 - $150 Each currently on Amazon
- Fluance XL7F - $500 / pair 

Btw, the Pioneer's and Infinity's are so cheap that you could afford to buy the matching center channel as well and still be under $500!


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## Marksas (Sep 11, 2012)

Todd Anderson said:


> To the OP... if you're looking to upgrade, Chane has been hitting it out of the park:
> 
> http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers
> 
> Here's a review of the A2's.... http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...7865-chane-a2rx-c-5-0-loudspeaker-review.html


Have you heard anything of their lineup? I've heard Chane mentioned many times before but never realized how affordable they are!


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Yeah Chane, I forgot about them, they had excellent reviews and are truly a value in this field. I believe they put their money in the drives and crossovers and less in the paint job. Could be a good buy, although please note I have not heard them yet, but just agreeing with Todd


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I will recommend any of the Chane speakers. The A3's (tower speakers) would be slightly over your budget but well worth it (remember, speakers are an investment that can be enjoyed every day for many years, don't skimp now). The A2's (big bookshelf speakers) would be more near your budget and would be my next recommendation if the A3's are not affordable.

I own several sets of Chane models: A5rx-c, A2rx-c, and A1rx-c. They are all very full sounding speakers, even the smallest A1 bookshelf speaker. They all have great sound quality and exceptional dynamic range. 
With some speakers you are paying for expensive looking wood veneers and craftsmanship but have average sound quality. With Chane speakers you are paying for excellent sound quality but have average finishes. 

A note on the subwoofer...
I've heard and owned several Klipsch subs. I have never been impressed with the sound from any of them, that's not to say that there isn't a good Klipsch sub, maybe there is. From my experience, the great sound quality of the Chane speakers would be hampered by the bad sound quality of the Klipsch sub. I would run the Chane tower speakers full range and not use the Klipsch sub. Obviously, though, before deciding not to use your sub, you should first do a listening comparison and choose what sounds best to you.

Also, for apartment/condo/townhouse situations I usually advise using tower speakers full range instead of using a subwoofer. 
For my mom's new townhouse, I am setting her up with a 2.0 Chane A2 set up. She doesn't want the bulkiness of tower speakers.


A cheaper speaker recommendation....
A step down in price and performance, but a good recommendation, are the Andrew Jones Pioneer speakers.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

To the OP:

If you are hesitant about Chane because you can not hear them first. I would go down to Best Buy and listen to the Martin Logan Motion speakers. They will be close enough to the Chane sound for the average person to know if they will like the Chane tweeter sound.


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