# Oldie but a goodie or brand new



## Rhuarc (Feb 5, 2010)

Hey all,

I am trying to figure out what would be better. I have a fully light controlled room and I'm trying to decide between getting a used JVC RS1 or something along the lines of the Mitsubishi HC4000 or Benq W1070. I know those three cover a decent age range, but I'm not opposed to buying something used/older, i.e. the RS1, as long as the consensus is that it will still be comparable. Sorry if this is an open ended question. Just not really sure where to go.

Thanks,
Andrew


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Sony Qualia 004 was a $30,000 projector that I frequently see for sale on ebay for $1,000-4000 and occasionally with an ultra low starting bid. I would suggest considering one of those.


http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=qualia+004&_sacat=0&_from=R40
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/Product.do?sku=V11H474020


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## KelvinS1965 (Feb 6, 2011)

Just a slight word of caution re used:

If you research various projectors you will find issues that develop at higher hours such as polariser filters discolouring, dust blobs, pixels failing on some DLP models, colour stripe appearing on the side of the image, power supplies failing and of course the lamp dimming with age. Many of the above issues could result in an uneconomical repair since for example the coloured stripe issue (on certain JVC models) can only be fixed by replacing the optical block, which costs far more than a used model is worth. The lamp on the Sony mentioned above costs a considerable amount of money (ie nearly as much as the projectors you are considering) and IIRC they don't last all that long either.

What I would say is that if you buy used, then you should do it from the standpoint that it may fail and you will have no comeback. Therefore, if you buy used then only do it if you can afford to write off the money should you be (very) unlucky. Otherwise, the relative safety of a new purchase might out weigh having a 'higher quality' model that might not last very long. Put it another way: If you've paid perhaps 20% of the new price of the projector, if it lasts any more than 20% of the total run hours on it when you got it, then you've 'broken even' in my view.


Things just aren't made to last these days...


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

I have done both: used and new. I picked up a Sony VPL-VW50 "Pearl" (4000 msrp) from a friend of mine who bought the new JVC DLA-RS56 (8000 msrp). He was the original owner, projector about 4 years old, all original packing material, and he replaced the bulb every 1000 hours. I got the projector and a used bulb. I've seen the Pearl on Ebay go for around $500. In a dark room it is good, with plenty of detail and decent brightness. The down side is the blacks are not real black. Still getting in on the cheap made for a nice set up. New bulbs run around $300 from Sony.

I just received my Panasonic PT-AE8000U (3000 msrp) yesterday. Of course, it is a leap forward with newer technology and thus a better picture.


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## jimbodude (Jul 26, 2011)

Another in-between option are factory refubs or show floor models. The shop near me had a JVC x70r for about 40% off with 100 or so hours on it in their showroom. JVC sometimes has factory refurbs with a full manufacturer's warranty - I just picked up an RS55 refurb for around 50% off direct from JVC Pro store. Benefit here is cost savings and it is only 1 year out of date.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

I have seen that lamp in new old stock go for a few hundred on ebay and there are several third party replacements available. Though, its no guarantee you will get the same level of high quality picture you might get from a genuine Sony bulb; but I would assume it's probably very close.


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## Rhuarc (Feb 5, 2010)

Thanks for the helpful input so far! It's greatly appreciated! I've came down to deciding between a used RS1 and the benq w1070. I know that they're vastly different pieces of equipment, but that's where I'm at. I'm partial to the RS1 because I've always wanted to get a really nice JVC PJ, but the w1070 looks very tempting as well. Any thoughts?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You need to be very careful with bulbs that you get on ebay or other sellers. Many are cheap knockoffs and you run a very high risk of damaging your projector by either bulb failure by exploding or by damaging the power supply.


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## KelvinS1965 (Feb 6, 2011)

Rhuarc said:


> Thanks for the helpful input so far! It's greatly appreciated! I've came down to deciding between a used RS1 and the benq w1070. I know that they're vastly different pieces of equipment, but that's where I'm at. I'm partial to the RS1 because I've always wanted to get a really nice JVC PJ, but the w1070 looks very tempting as well. Any thoughts?


It's funny but the older HD1 doesn't seem to be effected by the coloured stripe issue that has effected some RS10/15/20/25/35 models (and equivalent HDxxx models). However, be aware that they can suffer from bright corners (most obvious during a fade to black), the colour gamut is very oversaturated so you get neon greens and overly strong reds. This can't be corrected simply by turning the colour down (though some do this anyway) but needs an external video processor for proper correction, plus it has very limited gamma and greyscale controls (compared to the later models). It hasn't got the remote zoom/focus/shift that the newer models have too and the motion blur is much more obvious on this older model. 

It does have a decent native contrast level however, so not all bad news, but just to point out how things have improved on later JVCs (which of course have even higher native contrast).

In comparison the BenQ will have better motion, be much sharper (it's a single chip after all), brighter and have more ANSI contrast although it will have less native on/off contrast. It may well have more accurate colour modes too, though I'm not sure what the options are in the settings, so worth checking out any (decent) reviews that measure such things.

I'm a big JVC fan myself having owned a HD350 for nearly 4 years and now the latest X35, however IMHO the only thing you'd be gaining by getting the HD1 over the BenQ is the lower black level. Everything else in terms of motion, sharpness, ANSI contrast, light output, colour accuracy and lack of bright corners would be worse than the BenQ. Then you have chance of un warrantied breakdown/failure of the HD1 to factor in as well.

It's all very well looking at the 'raw' prices of older higher end and budget new, but you must remember that it is still a used item that you would be buying: Not unlike picking up an older higher end used car compared to a new budget one: It's nicer to use, but you can't realistically expect it to be as reliable as the new option and in this comparison only the lower black level is gained at the loss of all the other points.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

I'd go for which ever has the best contrast and color, you will notice that before you notice anything else. JVC it is?


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## KelvinS1965 (Feb 6, 2011)

8086 said:


> I'd go for which ever has the best contrast and color, you will notice that before you notice anything else. JVC it is?


If it's the HD1 we're talking about then it doesn't have the 'best colour' as I discussed above: It has very over saturated colours, so greens look 'neon' and reds look overdone too. This can't be corrected without an external video processor (I know I had one with my HD350 which is similarly oversaturated) If the BenQ has a more accurate mode then _it_ will have the 'best' colours in my book.

FWIW the DLP will have a higher ANSI contrast (a known JVC weak point) so depending on the scenes viewed then the DLP might well have more contrast anyway. The JVC will win only on absolute black level, but even then I'd expect that the gamma will have drifted severely as it tends to on all JVCs over time, so will have very little shadow detail and IMHO even 15,000:1 on/off isn't enough anyway for really deep blacks.

As I said I like JVC and I'm very pleased with my X35, but I'm just trying to honestly point out the weak points in this used purchase: I was contacted by someone who bought a used JVC RS20 recently. He paid 1/5 the original price and was annoyed to find out that there was a _possiblity_ of getting a coloured stripe down the side of the picture as he hadn't researched properly. I told him that even if he is unlucky he could probably just use the masking control to cut 2.5% or 5% off the edges in the worst case, since he'd paid 20% of the new price he was still getting much more than 20% of the screen area. :innocent: Plus since it only had about 800 hours on it, I reckoned that if he got another 200 hours out of it then he'd broken even anyway...of course he didn't see it that way, but IMHO something has to give if you only pay a fraction of the new price, then I don't think you can reasonably expect it to last years and years. Some buyers are just a little unrealistic though I think...


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