# Mysterious elecrical problems in your area?



## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

At the old theater before we moved it there were strange electrical disturbances. It fried one of my receivers power supplies even (I wasn't even using it.) so I had to get a new one. It had nothing to do with lightning because there were no storms. Our place was built by a contractor himself and is in perfect working order. It is better built that most homes in our area. The problem still happens in my area many years later (house1 that will be sold), and makes the news even. It is just isolated to a small part of the town. It is in the area highest above sea level. They do not know what causes the problems. I was thinking it may have something to do with the fault line that is in a nearby town. It had a flood once but that was after this happened. The house is pretty old. My father finished the basement. Anyone else have experience with any electrical problems that their electric company does not understand? :blink:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

We have problems but nothing that strange... spooky!


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## Guest (Nov 30, 2007)

After a storm, the digital inputs on my denon stopped working, everything else was perfect. It just won't take a digital signal. Weird


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

masterxela said:


> After a storm, the digital inputs on my denon stopped working, everything else was perfect. It just won't take a digital signal. Weird


If this is something that just recently happened I am very sorry to hear that. I hope that your Denon is under warranty.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

thewire said:


> At the old theater before we moved it there were strange electrical disturbances. It fried one of my receivers power supplies even (I wasn't even using it.) so I had to get a new one. It had nothing to do with lightning because there were no storms. Our place was built by a contractor himself and is in perfect working order. It is better built that most homes in our area. The problem still happens in my area many years later (house1 that will be sold), and makes the news even. It is just isolated to a small part of the town. It is in the area highest above sea level. They do not know what causes the problems. I was thinking it may have something to do with the fault line that is in a nearby town. It had a flood once but that was after this happened. The house is pretty old. My father finished the basement. Anyone else have experience with any electrical problems that their electric company does not understand? :blink:


Were you home at the time this happened?

The reason I ask is because the country town I've recently moved to experiences 1 second blackouts from time to time..
Nobody knows why this happens, including the Electricity Supplier and fortunately I haven't had any problems with my gear to date..
The seaside town nearby has this happening nearly everyday..
The annoying part about it is I have reset all the clocks and timers every time it happens..


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

There have been many reports of bad grounding of the main electrical pols. There was a thread running for several weeks on another forum that I'm on about two years ago and several people had taken pictures of the grounds that run down the sides of power pols not even being connected to the ground (rusted or just never placed into the ground). This can cause all sorts of problems as even though you have a ground in your house if the main power pols don't your not very well protected if there is any sort of interference.
The worst thing about it was that in all the cases the citys electrical companies where these people lived were contacted about it and nothing was done.


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Prof. said:


> Were you home at the time this happened?
> 
> The reason I ask is because the country town I've recently moved to experiences 1 second blackouts from time to time..
> Nobody knows why this happens, including the Electricity Supplier and fortunately I haven't had any problems with my gear to date..
> ...


I noticed it when I turned it on after I got home.

tonyvdb

A ground seems like it would be the common cause today yes.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Bad grounds can cause all sorts of problems so that could be your issue. if there is static interference thats a bad thing for electronics. The ground and neutral are accentually the same.


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## HClarkx (Nov 10, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> There have been many reports of bad grounding of the main electrical pols. There was a thread running for several weeks on another forum that I'm on about two years ago and several people had taken pictures of the grounds that run down the sides of power pols not even being connected to the ground (rusted or just never placed into the ground). This can cause all sorts of problems as even though you have a ground in your house if the main power pols don't your not very well protected if there is any sort of interference.
> The worst thing about it was that in all the cases the citys electrical companies where these people lived were contacted about it and nothing was done.


Tony is right. Poor electrical grounding can raise havoc. My mother lost half the lightbulbs in her house and an oven when the ground came loose on the service drop to her house. The problem is that the electrical service is 240 volts from a center-tapped transformer (or equivalent transformer connection) and most load is 120 volt and is on one side or the other of the center tap. When the neutral opens, the two chunks of 120 volt load are in series across the 240 volt line. That's okay if the loads are equal (balanced) but they never are. The heavier of the two loads will see a lower voltage and the lighter of the two loads will see a higher voltage. As devices exposed to the higher voltage fail, sometimes blowing fuses or tripping circuit breakers, the voltage goes even higher on remaining load. When the neutral connection is intermittant, maybe only opening with a certain wind condition or opening on high current but then arcing and welding itself back, the problem can arise but then be hard to trace. But, it's shameful that utilities don't take the problem more seriously, especially when it's reported to them. But, they don't guarantee power quality so it's no skin off their nose.

The 1 second outages that thewire mentioned are due to re-closing. When a flashover occurs, say, due to salt contamination on power line insulators, the circuit breakers open, but then attempt an automatic re-close to restore power in hopes the fault was temporary. More often than not the fault is temporary because the arc burns away the problem (salt or squirrel or bird or ... ) and the re-close is successful. Older distribution systems and those close to contamination sources (ocean) will experience more frequent re-closing events. And, as you might guess, there are voltage transients arising from the fault and the circuit breaker operations that can reach our equipment and cause damage. Surge protectors are not 100% effective, but are worthwhile. A good surge protection system will include a surge protector in the electrical panel and another at the HT equipment.

Harrison


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

HClarkx said:


> The 1 second outages that thewire mentioned are due to re-closing. When a flashover occurs, say, due to salt contamination on power line insulators, the circuit breakers open, but then attempt an automatic re-close to restore power in hopes the fault was temporary. More often than not the fault is temporary because the arc burns away the problem (salt or squirrel or bird or ... ) and the re-close is successful. Older distribution systems and those close to contamination sources (ocean) will experience more frequent re-closing events. And, as you might guess, there are voltage transients arising from the fault and the circuit breaker operations that can reach our equipment and cause damage. Surge protectors are not 100% effective, but are worthwhile. A good surge protection system will include a surge protector in the electrical panel and another at the HT equipment.
> 
> Harrison


Well thanks very much for that explanation..
The salt on the lines would explain why the local seaside town experiences regular blackouts...and where I live in the country side, there are thousands of birds in the area, ranging from little Blue Wrens, to huge Pelicans...
That's probably why I have the same problem from time to time..

All my HT gear is surge and overload protected, so hopefully it won't be affected. raying:


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## HClarkx (Nov 10, 2007)

Prof, 

We are pretty much in the countryside as well, but we have a lot of fairly tall trees that blow into the lines from time to time and cause temporary faults that successfully re-close.

Sometimes you will see the lights come back on for a second or two and then go off for 10 seconds or so, then come back on and stay on, or come back on and then go off again and stay off until repair crews arrive to fix the problem. When this happens the re-closer is detecting that the fault does not "clear" right away and is making second or third re-closing attempts again hoping the burned debris has dropped away from the line or been blown clear of it. Sometimes the re-closer holds in for a few seconds after the 2nd or 3rd re-close attempt for the purpose of forcing a fuse to blow on a permanently faulted lateral feed off the main trunk. With the fuse blown on the lateral that is faulted, the customers on other laterals can be restored to service by an additional re-close and only those near the (permanent) fault are without power.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

HClarkx said:


> Prof,
> 
> We are pretty much in the countryside as well, but we have a lot of fairly tall trees that blow into the lines from time to time and cause temporary faults that successfully re-close.


Yes, I have lots of tall trees here as well, but have not had the multiple on again off again situation..

The last place I lived also had tall trees and I did used to get those off for a few seconds, on again, and then off again...sometimes the last off would be for several hours, and that's when the lines were either down or a tranny had blown..
It was great when that happened on a 42C degree day!!! :whew: :unbelievable:


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

A ground coming loose is something I could really see possible. The area this was a problem with had very loose soil and in many places are not developed due to corrosion. I think that is more likely for it to be that rather anything to do with a fault line (platonic shifting) in the earth causing problems for that area.

A replacement outlet with built in surge protection seems like a very good idea so I will consider getting one of those to add to my current power setup. Thank you. That is some very good info to know and keep in mind.


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## HClarkx (Nov 10, 2007)

thewire said:


> A ground coming loose is something I could really see possible. The area this was a problem with had very loose soil and in many places are not developed due to corrosion. I think that is more likely for it to be that rather anything to do with a fault line (platonic shifting) in the earth causing problems for that area.
> 
> A replacement outlet with built in surge protection seems like a very good idea so I will consider getting one of those to add to my current power setup. Thank you. That is some very good info to know and keep in mind.


The power line fault issue was a peripheral one re the 1 second outage. While such events can be problematic, as you suggest, the loose ground a more likely culprit, especially if the damage is in the power supply. Something as simple as dry earth (poor ground at the pole) combined with a short-circuit, even one in somebody's home, can raise voltage enough to do damage.

Keeping all equipment on one house circuit is also a good idea. With big subwoofers, a Plasma TV, etc., a dedicated 20 ampere circuit for the HT is worth considering. It's on my to do list!

Harrison


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Prof. said:


> It was great when that happened on a 42C degree day!!! :whew: :unbelievable:


LOL, try -15C (10 F) we just had a car hit a main power pole last night as the roads are very slippery because of the snow thats been falling on and off for three days now. The power was off for about two seconds back on for one and then off again for half an hour. Luckily for us we had it restored quickly there was a large section of the City that lost its power due to this for over 7hrs:no:

A floating neutral can cause serious damage to equipment as this will cause the voltage on the hot to spike.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> LOL, try -15C (10 F) we just had a car hit a main power pole last night as the roads are very slippery because of the snow thats been falling on and off for three days now. The power was off for about two seconds back on for one and then off again for half an hour. Luckily for us we had it restored quickly there was a large section of the City that lost its power due to this for over 7hrs:no:
> 
> A floating neutral can cause serious damage to equipment as this will cause the voltage on the hot to spike.


I think I would prefer the -15C rather than the +42c.:gah:
You can always keep putting on more clothes to keep warm...but you can only take off so much..
Either extreme is not nice..


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