# AMP Education Needed



## Tuddy (Sep 30, 2007)

Tube or Solid State Amps? How much power is needed? 60W, 200W?
Mono, Multi Channel, I assume there are Stereo AMPS as well? who wants a MONO AMP????
I have done some research and of course the Paradigm Dealer is selling me on Anthem, but I have
read some great reviews of Sub $1k AMPS 

http://www.avrev.com/equip/rotelrb976/index.html
http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/emotiva-rpa-1-amplifier/

I have had an entry level home theater set-up, but I am upgrading almost everything less the Yammie.
I have been auditioning and researching speakers for a few months, right now it is between the Paradigm Studio 100v4 & the Signature 6v2 (auditioning this weekend), the Sig 8's v2 were smoother & tighter than the Studio 100's (great looking cabinet, too), but the 8's are not worth the $4k bump in price (v4 Studio's $2189), but the Sig 6's might do it for me, new beryllium driver now used in the 8's.

Also going to listen to B&W 600 and 700 series, the New PSB Syncrony(4 Ohm, I think?), Atlantic Technology 8200 & 6200..I considered the Klipsch RF 83 until I saw the size of the mains, forget it!

Appreciate any AMP suggestions and links to get educated on this component


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi Tuddy, and welcome to the Shack!

Yeah, you're right; there's are lots of different amps. There _are_ mono amps, generally called "monoblocks." These are useful for simply amplifying one amplifier channel at a time. If you were going to do a five channel system, you'd just have to buy five of them. A couple reasons why this might be beneficial is that there will be no crosstalk (interference between channels) and the power supply isn't shared. However, there are of course many properly-designed multi-channel amps that will work very well for you.

As far as tube vs. solid state, it's a personal preference. Tubes give a "warm" sound that some people like. I'm not an expert on tube amps, but it seems that many of them don't have tons of power; that may or may not be an issue for some, especially if they have more efficient speakers. Tube amps are often times rather expensive, and tube replacement is another added cost.

If you like the tube sound, but don't want to pay for the big amps or the big tubes, a "tube buffer" may be an option. Basically, it's just an added stage that incorporates a tube design, primarily to get the tube sound. A tube preamp is another choice to get the tube sound into the system.

As far as power, I'm a believer in "more is better." In the end, you're going to use as much power as you need, and it's better to not run out. More power will give you more headroom and help you to avoid clipping. I'm currently running my speakers bi-amped with 200 WPC for a total of 400 WPC to each speaker. I don't think I've ever felt like I was short of power!

The recommended power ratings on speakers don't mean much to me. Just because one might connect their speakers to 400 W or 1,000 W doesn't necessarily mean that the speaker will ever actually see that much power, but it's there.

I have purchased many things used, and an amp would definitely be at the top of my list of things to buy used. In general, they're pretty robust devices, and, unless they've been abused or are extremely old, will probably be useful for years to come. Here's a perfect example from AudiogoN:

Cary 7b (looks very, very sweet; $1350)

So, what do you think your usage will be? Only movies? Some music? 50/50?

Well, I guess that's about it for now.

Good luck!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I've just been looking for amps myself. I eyeballed that Cary 7b as well. I also looked at Parasound, Adcom, ATI, Outlaw, Rotel and Anthem. From what I've been able to conclude, there comes a point that you really don't gain a lot by necessarily spending more, unless it's for maybe a better warranty, like the Bryston 20yr warranty. Most of the above, and I'm sure several others, all build good quality amps. So your factors are how much power do you need and how much do you want to spend.

Roman at Ultimate Home Entertainment sells Anthem and may can work something out with you. He's not too far from you. I would at least give him a yell and see what he is able to do.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

The Outlaw 2200 Monoblock is worth considering also.

I also believe more clean power is good. I'm running 800 watts into stacked New Large Advents and its all good. Dynamic headroom is a concept that I am becoming enamored with.


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## Tuddy (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks for the feedback, I'll post some pics of the new HT system when get everything set up. :T


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*The cons to using tube amps are:* 
Cost per watt is substantially higher over solid state amps. 
They get hot and stay warm even when not in use and due to there design draw a fair bit of power even when no signal is be sent to them. (room needs to be Air conditioned)
Most take a few min. to warm up and thus don't sound right until they do 
*The pros are:*
They sound warmer than solid state
They dont "clip" hard when maxed out. 
and the best part, they look really cool

*Cons to using Solid state amps:*
Not as warm and smooth sounding
Headroom is nonexsitant when "clipping" ocures
*Pros are:*
Instant on
Low cost per watt
give off less heat
generally less maintenance (no tubes to replace)
higher power available
found in almost all Home theater Receivers and thus more economical


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## Tuddy (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks, Tony, got questions for you...

"clipping", from your reply to my post this occurs when the AMP maxes out,
how often does an AMP max out, should it, should I expect it to, how often ?

what is "Headroom"? 

The AMP maxes out, so it stops working? 

Appreciate all your info!:bigsmile:


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

http://sound.westhost.com/clipping.htm

http://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au/downloads/rane/note128.pdf

With sufficient power matched to the loudspeakers, amplifier clipping should be an non-issue. Remember, more clean power is good.

You must not have seen that I had a link above to explain dynamic headroom: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/109459.html

http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/amp.htm More interesting info on amplification.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Tuddy said:


> Thanks, Tony, got questions for you...
> 
> "clipping", from your reply to my post this occurs when the AMP maxes out,
> how often does an AMP max out, should it, should I expect it to, how often ?


The links posted above offer good explanations but for a short answer: Clipping is caused by the amp not having the power anymore to drive the speaker. This usually sounds like a loud "CRACK" or "POP" and will cause damage to your speakers. This is why you need to have enough power to drive the speakers that you have. Its usually better to have more than you need.



> what is "Headroom"?


Just like I said above, Headroom is just more power than you need to drive the power requirements of the speakers your using.



> The AMP maxes out, so it stops working?


Not nessisaraly, Tube amps usually just don't get any louder and distortion in the audio will be heard but with solid state most amps will just "clip" this is the amp shutting off for a split second and then back on.


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## Tuddy (Sep 30, 2007)

Thanks Everyone.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> The links posted above offer good explanations but for a short answer: Clipping is caused by the amp not having the power anymore to drive the speaker. This usually sounds like a loud "CRACK" or "POP" and will cause damage to your speakers. This is why you need to have enough power to drive the speakers that you have. Its usually better to have more than you need.


I hate to disagree, but I think sounds like "crack" and "pop" are going to come from over excursion of a driver -- pieces of metal hitting each other inside the driver itself.




> Not nessisaraly, Tube amps usually just don't get any louder and distortion in the audio will be heard but with solid state most amps will just "clip" this is the amp shutting off for a split second and then back on.


An amp clipping won't shut off for a split second. It may "shut down" due to its protection circuitry, but I wouldn't expect to hear an intermittent signal when clipping occurs. What does happen is that the signal will end up getting its "top" and "bottom" clipped such that the waveform is no longer linear, but flat. I didn't read the whole thing, but there's a Wikipedia link on clipping here. Clipping in a solid state device usually means that the amp will be driven into distortion, and that the signal is no longer as it should be. The hard edges of the clipped signal generate high frequency signal energy that will end up going to your speakers with more power than expected in that band. That's one path to killing your tweeters.

If you run a receiver into too much clipping, I believe that the protection circuitry will shut down the device, but you may have to wait a few minutes before it comes back on. Same goes for too much heat. In any of those cases, you'll have to be running it pretty loud. If you're not playing it that loud, you probably have little to worry about.


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