# Sticky  Getting around the limitations of JavaSound on OS X



## JohnM

John Reekie has produced a great blog post about how to work around the problems Java has on OS X with audio input from Firewire cards, multi-input USB cards and 48kHz sources. You can find the cure for these JavaSound ills at Room EQ Wizard on the Mac - An Input Workaround. Great work John, and thank you!

Edit 12th September: Here is a related post on using HDMI output with REW on OS X, thanks to EmagSamurai: 8 channel HDMI output from REW on the Mac.

Edit 29th June 2014: Use V5.01 beta 21 or later (available here) for OS X 10.7.3 onwards, removes the need for workarounds.


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## HifiZine

Thanks John 

If anyone using REW on the Mac with one of these specific cases tries the workaround, please do report back here on how it worked out. Thank you


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## Rich G.

I have a 2008 Macbook Pro running OS X 10.8 (Mountain Lion) with a Presonus AudioBox USB. I tried to running REW last night for the first time on the Mac, but couldn't get past the calibration stage. I kept getting Impulse Response and Range errors (I forget the exact wording at the moment). I have no problems at all using the AudioBox USB on my Windows 7 based laptop.

I just came across this blog about Mac/Java and look forward to trying this method out. I'll report my findings once I test it.


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## pat17

It worked fine with me... Thanks a million! :wave:

I had installed today REW 5.01 Beta 13 on my Mac Mini (running under OS X 10.8.2 Mountain Lion). My sound card is a UltraLite-mk3 Hybrid to which I hooked a Behringer ECM8000.

At first, when using REW with the Behringer calibration file, there was no result. I tried to set the level through "check levels" on Preference / Soundcard tab and got only a signal on the "out" display.

I have then tried the "Getting around the limitations of JavaSound on OS X" workaround, which allowed me to see results on the "in" display.

Now I have to understand why I see crazy results... but my room acoustics is far from being simple - hence my quest to analyse it with REW...


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## roubi

It did work perfectly for me. 
I have a MBP13" from 2009 with 10.6.8 on it. The soundcard is a M-Audio Fast Track Ultra and the mic an ECM8000.
I just followed each of the steps, and it worked.

So a big thank you !


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## EarlK

roubi said:


> It did work perfectly for me.
> I have a MBP13" from 2009 with 10.6.8 on it. The soundcard is a M-Audio Fast Track Ultra and the mic and ECM8000.
> I just followed each of the steps, and it worked.
> 
> So a big thank you !


:clap:


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## HifiZine

roubi and pat17, glad it worked for you. I was wondering if there was an extra (half) step needed to set the soundcard to 44.1kHz, but it doesn't seem to be needed (I'm assuming at this point that REW/JS does it). Thank you for posting your result


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## roubi

I actually changer the frequency setting in my fast track ultra control panel to 44.1, but I didn't try leaving it at 48000. Everybody at the same frequency can not be wrong !


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## Arnau Olivé

Thank you very much John

This post helped me get the system working. I use an RME Fireface UC USB interface.

Your REW software is great!

Arnau Olivé


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## chilort

Im working with a 2007 MacBook (yeah, I know, time for a new computer -- but a solid state hard drive and software updates to 10.7.5 have kept it viable).

Im very new into the measurement game. I have a Behringer UCA202 and a UMIK from miniDSP. Since I only have the problem with a 48kHz in put device, do I need to load all of the software discussed in the blog post? If I load the software discussed, do I leave REW input set to 44.1kHz?

Thanks for the help!


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## EarlK

Hi,

I can only offer limited help because my main use of REW is on a PC ( & I don't own a UMIK-1 or any USB type mic ) . 

That said ;

There's no real need to use the UCA202 just for output . You can use the heaphone output ( with adapters ) from your MacBook to drive signal over to your AVR .

The very real problem with using your UCA202 for output , is that the Behringer typically utilizes/monopolizes the Macs ( or a PCs ) generic USB driver ( the one built into the system OS ) . The problem is the UMIK-1 will also want & need to use that same driver / creating a conflict. 

Only one device can "claim/initialize" ( & then use ) the builtin generic driver . I suggest leaving it available for use by the UMIK ( by not using the UCA202 ) .

That "generic" USB driver looks like this :












I would unplug the UCA202 , bootup REW with the UMIK-1 plugged in ( while making sure that it's selected within REW's preferences window ) , & then open REW's Levels window & then tap the mic to see if there's any input ( all the while with the preferences set to 48K ) .

If there's input, I'd proceed to try to make a measurement .

If you can't get input ( under the circumstances I just described ) then there's a good chance you need to use the mentioned work arounds ( which is really meant for users of multiple input soundcards, be they either USB or FireWire / " multiple input = more than 2 " ) .

:sn:


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## JohnM

chilort said:


> I have a Behringer UCA202 and a UMIK from miniDSP. Since I only have the problem with a 48kHz in put device, do I need to load all of the software discussed in the blog post?


Afraid so, yes



> If I load the software discussed, do I leave REW input set to 44.1kHz?


Yes


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## chilort

JohnM said:


> Afraid so, yes
> 
> Yes


Thanks!

Eventually, since I'll be setting up a miniDSP for a lilwrecker I'll need to use a PC. But, for now, I'd rather get used to things via my personal 6 year old Mac rather than my 2.5year old work laptop.


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## villharmonic

Many Thanks for this Tutorial.

It works fine with OS 10.6.8 and Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
In Saffire MixControl I routed the DAW 1-2 Out direct to the Monitor Out. I unchecked the HW-Control-Button and adjusted the Output Level.
I saved this as a Preset, so i have only to load this Preset before measuring.

Yesterday I tried to use JackOSX - didn't work.


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## chilort

Deleted ... never mind, it was a stupid question.


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## wes

Does the new software works with HDMi and the mac?


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## groovbert

Dear John M,

unfortunately John Reekies' workaround does not work in our case which is:
MBPro OS X 10.8.2
Focusrite Saffire 40 PRO, 44.1kHz
Jave updated to latest version
REW 5.0, 44.1kHz
Since we could not get FireWire to work for the input (output worked fine), we configured only the output via FireWire (then to Sub, Crossover, Speaker, Room, Mic) and came back from the Saffire via its Analog Out to the MBPro LineIn, which seemed to work in the beginning.
I started with 2 sweeps per measurement and got caught by a 30dB dip around 11k in the FR.
To analyse, we spared out the Speakers and the Mic, connected the two cables directly to each other ('wired loop') and found in a mostly flat response the mentioned dip.







After quite a while and mostly by chance I found that reducing the sweeps to 1 per measurement gives me a flat result. See the 1sweep vs. 2 sweeps in the next image







Diggin deeper I wondered, what happened, if I'd increase #of sweeps, and here's what I got for 4 sweeps







and here for 8 sweeps.







I only guessed, that, since these results are very reproduceable, it's got nothin to do with WiFi or Laptop CPU overload or sg. - nevertheless I checked, turned everything off, dips are still there.

Then I came across the above mentioned input workaround. We did it according to the descriptions, but what we got was, instead of getting better, that signal generation, output and input "reacting" extremely delayed. With the meters on the screen, after hitting check levels, or measure, or calibrate we could wait and then see with more than a sec delay the REW pre OUT meter showing the signal, then, approx another sec later the focusrite input meter, and then, slowly rising, the REW pref In meter - showing the signals.
We got error messages, that the IR is not at the expected position, so we tried a loopback as a t0 reference, which gave us a flat result till 3kHz, but then jumped down into noise (sorry - no pic from that).
After restarts, of Saffire, MBPro, REW etc and no improvment, we were forced to go back to our initial solution and uninstall the input workaround (Soundflower).

So we are still stuck with the limitation to only being able to do 1 sweep, which I'd like to overcome, to improve S/N, apart from increasing the sweep length, since it is a bit noisy around where we have to measure...
To me, it looks like an issue related to either windowing or aliasing or similar, but I did not manage to put my finger on it...
Any ideas regarding our dip-pattern, John M maybe? 
Many thanks for your thoughts on that!
Markus


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## jtalden

REW 5.0 has several issues. I think one of those is not handling multiple sweep.

Have you tried *REW 5.01 Beta 17*?


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## JohnM

Dips with multiple sweeps are caused by loss of synchronisation between the individual sweeps. The sweeps are generated as one continuous signal, but there seem to be some audio setup combinations that result in either gaps or missing data, possibly related to sample rate changes along the chain. When that happens there is a sharp null at a frequency corresponding to the time slip and the impulse response shows a separate peak for each sweep, separated by the amount of the time slip.


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## groovbert

I suspected our FireWire & LineIn combination as well to contribute to this, but I cant get it to work with the FireWire only, or the LineIn workaround, respectively. I can not think of any SR changes along the process, when REW and Focusrite are on 44.1k... could you? REW 5.01 Beta 17 would not help in this case? Markus


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## muscape

Hi,
i am using a mbp 15" early 2011 with os x 10.7.5 and run REW 5.0.17beta. My Interface is a Presonus Firebox Mobil with FW 400. The MacbookPro use a FW 800 Port.
Using the discription of John, brings no result. (Thank you! It is a very good description)
Triying other presets did not produce a satisfactory result.

Can anyon help me in this case? Could it work with REW 5.0 13beta? Cause John dit it in his description with that version. Were can i get REW 5.0 13???

Thank´s a lot!!!


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## HifiZine

Hi muscape, I've used the workaround with beta 17, it works fine (for me). I don't think beta13 will make any difference.

Could I request please that you provide more detailed information, "brings no result" is not descriptive enough to help in identifying the problem Screenshots of all of your settings panes would be the most helpful. I forget what the minimum number of posts to add images is, but you may need to make a few more posts. Or post a link to a site where you have put screenshots.


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## HifiZine

groovbert said:


> I suspected our FireWire & LineIn combination as well to contribute to this, but I cant get it to work with the FireWire only, or the LineIn workaround, respectively. I can not think of any SR changes along the process, when REW and Focusrite are on 44.1k... could you? REW 5.01 Beta 17 would not help in this case? Markus


Hi Markus, what version *are* you using? I think it would be helpful to be using beta17.

I have not tried the multiple sweep feature with the input workaround. I'll give it a go and see whether it works for me or not. (Will be next week at this point though.)


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## groovbert

Dear HifiZine,
thanks for your reply - we worked with REW 5.0. 
According to Johns Reply, multiple sweeps can be a problem with some AudioSetup combinations. We did a 7 day Workshop-Session and I flew back home yesterday. 
I guess John M would have indicated to use a later version of his SW, if he had improved anything with the later beta releases.
Anyway, I do not have access to the gear where I am now but I am definitly interested how to overcome the multi-sweep trouble, since the studio is in the course of being built now and I plan to be back to check on the progress.

Regards,
Markus


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## muscape

Hi HifiZine,

thank you for your answer. Now, i must did some more posts for adding pictures, so this is one of it.
I will lock forward to take some screenshots. 

I will deinstalled all the programs an will install it new to take a nother try form Zero. 
Hope it fix the problem. If not, i´m going to look for a cheap usb interface. Seems to be the easyest way…


See u...


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## hultngarro

It works fine with OS 10.6.8 and Focusrite Saffire Pro 40.
In Saffire MixControl I routed the DAW 1-2 Out direct to the Monitor Out. I unchecked the HW-Control-Button and adjusted the Output Level.
I saved this as a Preset, so i have only to load this Preset before measuring.


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## stereo247

I see the work around page for OSX is offline - I just received my mic and now what? :unbelievable:


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## EarlK

stereo247 said:


> I see the work around page for OSX is offline - I just received my mic and now what? :unbelievable:


John's page works for me / must be your local ISP .

<> EarlK


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## DanDan

*Macs don't work.*

Just got my new UMIK. I have tested this workaround extensively. 
There are random latency issues caused by LineIn, which give rise to the 'Impulse Response peak is not at the right....' There are low level warnings due to the recommendation to set AMS to 0.32 or 0dB. 
Ultimately I have persuaded it to work, but not reliably due to random issues. 
I have the AudioMidi Setup level at 24dB which is also described as 1. This delivers reasonable measurement levels without warnings for being at -30 or -40dB. 
In order to tame the SPL meter, I had to rewrite the sensitivity in the Cal file from -6 to +12 dB. 
Now, I have have excellent correlation between a real Calibrated SLM and the one in REW, and mostly successful measurements. But I have to say, I wouldn't wish this on anybody. Conversely the onboard Mac Line I/O work perfectly every time. 

DD


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## deromax

Hello! I'm using REW for a non-standard application where it would be useful to be able to measure audio above 20 kHz. It would be nice if a future release of the software supports true 48 kHz sampling rate or even higher.

Thanks for reading and hats off to the developpers!


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## JohnM

REW supports 96k/24-bit sampling, but only when using ASIO drivers so need Windows for that, sorry.


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## eTwin

I have a Umik-1 here connected to my mac mini and I was wondering if I can measure an accurate absolute SPL level now ?

If I start the REW software on OSX it is advised to use Soundflower, LineIn and Audio Midi Setup.
I noticed that the following settings influenced the SPL readout:
-1- System Preferences - Sound - Soundflower (2ch) - Input volume
-2- Audio Midi Setup - Umik-1 - Sliders
-3- Audio Midi Setup - Soundflower - Input - Sliders 
-4- Audio Midi Setup - Soundflower - Output - Sliders 

In the REW software -2- is advised to be set at 0 dB

Does anybody know what are the right settings for -1- ; -3- ; -4- to have the right readout of SPL in the Umik-1?


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## JohnM

It is pretty tricky on OS X as REW cannot access any volume control settings so cannot compensate for them, ideally all gains in the input path should be set to 0 dB.


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## Esprit

Hello, first of all I apologize for all my possible errors since English is not my language.
I just downloaded the beta version for macosx but when I launch it the Mac says it is corrupted and the system asks me if I want to put it in the trash.
What should I do what is the link that I have to choose?
Sorry if i'm in the wrong 3ad... :help:


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## EarlK

That type of OSX problem is usually because of this guy ;



:sn:


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## Esprit

No isn't this the problem.
It's not a gatekeeper issue. I can open (ctr->open) a file and launch it.
Now, when I try to launch this REW version, the system says to me "the file is damaged and cannot be open"
P.S. I don't know English but I know the Mac since 1988 :nerd:


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## EarlK

Esprit said:


> No isn't this the problem.
> It's not a gatekeeper issue. I can open (ctr->open) a file and launch it.
> Now, when I try to launch this REW version, the system says to me "the file is damaged and cannot be open"
> P.S. I don't know English but I know the Mac since 1988 :nerd:


Regardless of how long you have been around Macs, I would suggest that you use the advanced search function ( for this forum ) .

- Look for posts from user JohnM & search for the word gatekeeper .
- Display the search results as threads ( & then follow the trail of bread-crumbs to one answer ).

:sn:


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## Esprit

Found this: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/60339-mountain-lion-problem.html#post537659

Thanks EarlK you deserve a beer!


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## eTwin

JohnM said:


> It is pretty tricky on OS X as REW cannot access any volume control settings so cannot compensate for them, ideally all gains in the input path should be set to 0 dB.


Thanks John.

If in Audio Devices - Soundflower (2ch) input is at 0 dB (see screenshot) there is no measurement at all.
Also in in Preferences - Sound Input and Output there is no setting in dB, just percentage.

I guess I'm not the only one with OSX and Umik-1 who wants absolute SPL level, do I understand correctly that this is not possible?

I also received no answer from the minidsp help desk, can someone point me in the right direction for support on this issue or is this the wrong thread?

Is it still necessary to use Soundflower and LineIn at this point in time ?

I tried searching the forum but it is hard to find the right info, I also read the thread about the Umik-1 but no luck there also.

Would it make more sense to use Windows as a virtual machine in OSX, can I have absolute SPL then?

.


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## JohnM

It should work fine using Windows in a VM. 

Soundflower and LineIn are required for OSX, MiniDSP provide setup help in their application notes: http://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements

For the Soundflower setting the displayed dB value doesn't look meaningful - 0 dB should mean unity gain, what does the dB figure show if the level is set to the maximum? It may be that full/100% is unity gain.

If you have an external SPL meter you can calibrate REW against that as another route to correct SPL values.


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## eTwin

I have seen minidsp's notes but they don't answer my specific questions.
Did you try the Umik-1 yourself with OSX?

Max level is Value "1" and 40.5 dB, I will try tomorrow how this looks.

I have an (uncalibrated) SPL meter that I can compare (Voltcraft Sound Level Meter).
Did I understand correctly that the Umik-1 should be compared at 1000Hz against the SPL meter (C-weighed)


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## HifiZine

If you have the ability to run REW in a VM, then you could compare the result on the two OS for yourself. I'll see if I can get a chance to do that today. I've been assuming that setting Soundflower to "1" and System Preferences all the way up will give unity gain at those points.


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## eTwin

Thanks, good to know I'm not the only person having a Umik-1 with OSX 

With the setting as mentioned I read a very high SPL in a more or less quiet room.

Which leads me to my other issue, there is a big difference between my SPL meter A weighed and Z weighed (both readouts of 55 dB and 98dB in a quiet room).

This is because the Umik-1 seems to pick up a lot of low frequencies, there is about a 40 dB difference in SPL level between below and above 200 Hz, I have seen this when I did a measurement sweep with my amps switched off (so again in a quiet room).

See waterfall that I did previously.
Any ideas?

.


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## HifiZine

Hi again, I'm not sure that you can (usefully) run a measurement sweep with your amps switched off, as REW won't be able to calculate a proper impulse response. If you are measuring ambient noise, use the RTA function. Bear in mind that USB mics are probably not the best tool for this anyway, as they are not as quiet as phantom powered mics and an external soundcard. Quiet mics = expensive...

With regard to the SPL level reported by UMIK-1, with the pink noise generator and the SPL meter, I got the same reading on the Mac with the Soundflower input level set full up (as shown in tutorial), as on Windows in a VM. I don't have a calibrated SPL meter to compare them against for absolute accuracy, the point is that the result on a Mac is the same as on Windows.

Note that the generated SPL under Windows was 3 dB higher (with the same setting in the Generator), I'm not sure why but didn't bother to track it down as it has no effect on the mic calibration/SPL reading.



eTwin said:


> -1- System Preferences - Sound - Soundflower (2ch) - Input volume


Leave full up as shown in tutorial - http://johnr.hifizine.com/2013/02/room-eq-wizard-on-the-mac-an-input-workaround/.


> -2- Audio Midi Setup - Umik-1 - Sliders


As instructed by REW, set to 0 dB.


> -3- Audio Midi Setup - Soundflower - Input - Sliders


This is the same parameter as #1 above.


> -4- Audio Midi Setup - Soundflower - Output - Sliders


This is on the output side and has no effect on the mic calibration.

Hope this helps


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## eTwin

Hi thanks a lot (again), I think I'm getting closer.

- For me it didn't really work with a virtual machine, maybe my machine (mac mini 2011) is too slow (delays and time outs)

- In Audio Midi Setup - Soundflower - Input - Sliders I have them all full up now at 1 (40,5 dB)

- The Audio Midi Setup - Soundflower - Output - Sliders DOES influence my mic readout, so left them all three at 1 (0dB)

- What bothers me most is not so much the absolute level but more the difference in level between low and high frequencies, this is what my RTA looks like in a more or less silent room with settings as described above. Is this normal behavior? What would this normally look like?


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## JohnM

That's pretty much normal - try switching to an RTA view rather than spectrum for a less alarming presentation.


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## eTwin

JohnM said:


> That's pretty much normal - try switching to an RTA view rather than spectrum for a less alarming presentation.


Ok, so this looks right, then I don't have to worry sending back the microphone?

I still see the difference of about 40 dB, where does it come from?

I can understand there is a noise floor but why is this so much higher in the low frequencies?

Does this mean that I have to measure at about (50 + 60 =) 110dB to be able to see meaningful RT60 figures or am I mixing up things now? (ok, I know, I have to start reading the docs now :heehee: )


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## HifiZine

REW gives you T20 and T30, which is an estimated RT60. See: http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/wizardhelpv5/help_en-GB/html/graphpanel.html#rt60group 



> - The Audio Midi Setup - Soundflower - Output - Sliders DOES influence my mic readout, so left them all three at 1 (0dB)


You're right, sorry, Soundflower seems to have only one volume control. I was thinking of SoundflowerBed (since I was using HDMI output)


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## JohnM

eTwin said:


> Does this mean that I have to measure at about (50 + 60 =) 110dB to be able to see meaningful RT60 figures


No, make your measurements at a comfortable listening level. RT60 values are based on the slopes of filtered and processed versions of the impulse response, high signal levels are not required.


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## eTwin

JohnM said:


> No, make your measurements at a comfortable listening level. RT60 values are based on the slopes of filtered and processed versions of the impulse response, high signal levels are not required.


Ok, I did and attached it, name is "Amp_At_-10dB.mdat".

The sweep was through both front speakers.
To my ears it was quite loud but I understand the message "Low signal level" should be ignored in this setup.

Does the mdat file seem like a valid measurement?


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## DanDan

*NG*

Umik-1 OSX Mavericks. Previously I posted that I had achieved a workable situation by tweaking many of the settings. I was able to force reasonable SPL readings and get Waterfalls etc. without warnings. However the measurements are faulty. They have weird HF oscillations in them. 
I have to conclude the REW does not work with the UMIK-1 on OSX. 
DD


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## JohnM

eTwin said:


> Ok, I did and attached it, name is "Amp_At_-10dB.mdat".
> 
> The sweep was through both front speakers.
> To my ears it was quite loud but I understand the message "Low signal level" should be ignored in this setup.
> 
> Does the mdat file seem like a valid measurement?


Yes, measurement looks good. Worth measuring each speaker on its own (disconnect the other if necessary, but can probably also disable either channel in soundflower by setting it to 'none'). Some quite large early reflections, a bit of work to do to even out the response - probably best moving any further discussion on that to a separate thread though.


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## eTwin

JohnM said:


> Yes, measurement looks good. Worth measuring each speaker on its own (disconnect the other if necessary, but can probably also disable either channel in soundflower by setting it to 'none'). Some quite large early reflections, a bit of work to do to even out the response - probably best moving any further discussion on that to a separate thread though.


Thanks John, then it's time to start reading a bit more to understand the measurement.

Is there still a section of the forum dedicated to the Tag McLaren AV32R and setting it up (I know it's old but I still have mine) ?
I think you're familiar with the McLaren, is this still an OK device or really outdated?


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## JohnM

There's no forum section for the AV32R but a search should turn up any relevant posts. I still use my AV192R, nothing wrong with the AV32R unless you need some format decoded it doesn't support.


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## Esprit

*Re: NG*



DanDan said:


> I have to conclude the REW does not work with the UMIK-1 on OSX


:crying:


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## bobkatz

*A new solution: OSXJack. Works great!*

I've conquered the loopback and OSX limitation issues and solved some Mavericks issues. I think this solution is actually fun. It's certainly more elegant in my mind than the previous workarounds. It doesn't even feel like a workaround. Now that I've caught your attention, here are 

*Instructions for using REW with loopback with OSX Mavericks, using JackOSX.* 

This method makes the ergonomics easier. Adapt this to your needs as you wish. JackOSX is very versatile. You can feed multiple outputs at once if desired. Jack replaces and surpasses the power of both Soundflower and Line In. The interface I'm using is the Motu Audio Express. Any interface which has combo mike/line inputs and which has two analog inputs as its first pair will work easily. Make a 1/4" to 1/4" analog patch cord for the analog loopback. 

My goal: To feed REW's test signal to the digital input of a DAC, and selectively feed either the left or right channel so we can test either the left or right loudspeaker. AND, to have analog loopback from the interface so we can measure time-of-flight latency and center the microphone between left and right loudspeakers. If you are using an analog feed to your loudspeakers it's just a little less patching, but still you will need JackOSX. 

UPDATE: I made this test with the MOTU interface's USB connection. When I tried Firewire I could not get it to work on my Retina/Mavericks or my MacPro/Snow Leopard. It would not appear as a device in OSX Sound Preferences. Perhaps the Motu driver is too new and will only work with Mavericks on a Mac which has native firewire, but I do not have Mavericks installed on the MacPro. If you have a Firewire interface and a Mac with native firewire (as opposed to a Thunderbolt adapter) perhaps this procedure will work. 

1) Install JackOSX. http://sourceforge.net/projects/jackosx/?source=dlp. It's also free. Thank heaven for the developers! I found JackOSX 0.89 is completely stable in Mavericks. It's even more stable than Audio MIDI setup, which crashed for me all the time when I was trying the other workarounds. You won't even have to touch Audio MIDI setup for this procedure! JackOSX has thorough and easy-to-understand documentation. Jack allows you to patch any audio application (in fact multiple applications at once if desired). Read the JackOSX documentation. If some parts are a little obscure, they will become clear as soon as you use it. You will have to restart your computer after the install as JackOSX becomes part of the underlying operating system and becomes a device for sound input and output.

2) Run JackPilot, which has been installed in applications. Put the application in your dock for regular use. In Jack Preferences, set Press Start in JackPilot. This will enable JackRouter as an available output and input device. 

3) In JackPilot Preferences, set JackPilot as pictured in the attached image. If your interface has fewer input or output channels, you can set it for less. Leave the Auto-connect off, it adds unnecessary patches for our purposes that you will have to unpatch. Leave System port monitoring off, it doesn't harm to turn it on, but it adds unnecessary inputs/outputs to Jack's patching matrix. 

4) In OSX Sound preferences, set JackRouter as the Default output device, as pictured in the attached image. There is no need to set anything as your default input device, but you could set the Motu as the device so you can see the Motu mike signal on OSX's meter as a test. This is because REW has to use the default device as its output, but REW can choose your interface directly as its input device. REW defaults to the first two inputs of the interface for its main and reference inputs. (This procedure could be done with JackRouter as the default input device but it is unnecessary and would add extra patching within Jack.)

5) Connect your microphone to Motu input 2. For some reason the main input of REW defaults to input 2 and the Reference input to input 1. Who knows... UPDATE: This was true on my Macbook Pro/Mavericks. On the MacPro/Snow Leopard, Mike 1 is the input and Line input 2 is the reference. I have no idea at this point how consistent this will be, so check it. See where the mike comes up and if it comes up on the wrong input of REW, reverse things. Remember to switch off phantom power before unplugging a condensor mike!!! Connect an analog 1/4" patch cord from Motu Main out 1 to Line in 1 (or line in 2 if appropriate) for the loopback. 

6) Launch REW. Go to Preferences/Analysis. Turn on Use Loopback as timing reference. Go to Soundcard. Set the output to the default device. Set the input to the Motu interface. Choose Use Main Speaker to Check/Set Levels. Press Check Levels. Press Next. 

7) Switch to JackPilot. Press *Routing*. This opens the Connections manager. In a moment, JavaApplications will appear at the bottom of the connections manager. Now we will route REW's outputs to the Motu's SPDIF output(s) AND simultaneously to the Motu's main analog outputs. As pictured in the attached image. 

Triangle open the system and the JavaApplications send and receive ports to reveal all the available patch points. Since REW is directly accessing the MOTU on its input, JavaApplications Receive ports will NOT appear in JackRouter. You only have to configure the SEND from REW in Jackrouter. REW itself takes care of the input and return audio. Click on JavaApplications out1 in the left hand column. Click on system playback_1 in the right hand column. Double click on playback_1. It becomes red which means that out1 is routed to playback_1. You should see output on Main 1 on the Motu. AND, presto ---- you will see the mike signal on REW In and the reference signal on REW Ref In!

NB: If you make a mistake in patching in JackOSX, just double click on any node and it will unpatch. Quite elegant for a non-gui application!

*Test your work:* Pull patch cords to see what happens. Turn the phantom power on the mike on and off and observe that things are patched correctly. This proves the loopback and the Input are working properly. If you are using analog out to loudspeakers, route out1 to playback_2 and this will allow you to feed your analog speakers with an analog cable without a Y cord. But you will have to move cables around to select speakers. With my method you can be a couch potato. 

NB: REW feeds both output 1 and output 2 simultaneously so it really doesn't matter if you use output 1 or output 2. Or, you can use this as your virtual "y cord" if you are doing analog speakers. 

8) If you are using speakers with digital inputs, like me, use (or add) one more route. Route REW's out1 to playback 5 (which in my interface is SPDIF out Left). Or to playback 6 (which is SPDIF out Right). In this way, Jack is your switcher which selects either left or right loudspeaker. You can be a couch potato, not move a single cable or human being during the measurement. To make things "foolproof", save a pair of Jack Studio setup documents, one for left speaker and one for right and load them to switch loudspeakers. This makes sure your nimble mouse fingers won't accidentally select the wrong patch once you have got things working.

Attached is a picture of a jack route, showing REW routed simultaneously to playback 1 and playback 5 in the Motu. 

9) Have fun! Yes. Did I say "Have fun"! This procedure works so well that I am having fun. I must say that the Soundflower/Line Input thing gave me a headache, but Jack just makes me feel real good and real powerful.


Best wishes,


Bob Katz
2/22/14


-------------
*Noto bene:
*
a) With this method, Soundflower and LineIn are NOT NEEDED. Aggregate Devices are NOT NEEDED. MULTIPLE OUTPUT DEVICES ARE NOT NEEDED. In fact, Linein currently is broken on OSX 10.9 Mavericks, it crashes during the install. And I also discovered that Soundflower will not feed any sound to the Motu SPDIF output although it can route to it on screen, no sound makes it to the MOTU SPDIF output. Since I am using SPDIF output AND I want to have analog loopback I have to use this method. 

b) You may be able to pull this off with Soundflower alone and not need JackOSX if you are doing an analog feed to loudspeakers only, but I have not tested it. In that case you would use an analog loopback cable from the other analog channel into a combo mike/line input. Or, if you are adventurous, make a 60 dB attenuator, but I won't go there  And assign REW's input to the Motu interface so you don't need LineIn.

c) Initially I tried to use JackRouter to route the input signals to REW. But for some reason, REW or Java or something parallels the left and right inputs to REW so that both the In and Ref inputs get the same signal. This could be a bug in Java or a bug in REW or something else. Fortunately, if you can use the first two inputs of your interface for in and ref then you do not have to use JackRouter for the input routing. UPDATE: I tried this with my Metric Halo ULN-8 interface (firewire), which has full internal routing facilities and so we would not need JackRouter, and got the same behavior. No matter what channel I routed the mike and loopback to, REW continues to receive information on BOTH the input and loopback. So it appears that REW's input, when set to default device, will not work properly for loopback purposes with routing software.


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## bobkatz

*Re: A new solution: OSXJack. Works great!*

Update and confession:

When I made the previous post I had not taken a measurement. I only tested all the functionality of REW and the interface and observed REW's metering on two different computers. Now I tried my first measurement with the MacPro/Snow Leopard and the recording terminates before the sweep is finished. It ends around 300 Hz and I get this error: "Impulse peak is not where it should be. The measurement may have been corrupted." It doesn't matter if I'm in loopback mode or not. I tried different buffers, no luck. I'm hoping this MacPro is just the problem and I'm setting up my Macbook Pro Retina display in Studio B to try again and we shall see. Wish me luck.


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## bobkatz

*Re: A new solution: OSXJack. Works great!*

Unfortunately, the same symptom "Impulse response is not where it should be..." occurred with my Macbook Pro Retina display/Mavericks. So I'm dead in the water. I apologize for the premature elation of my post. Everything looked like it was going to be good, except for the actual measurement failure 

I hope that someone out there can solve this issue because as you know from this thread, I had other problems on the PC side. 


Back to the Mac: I tried different buffers. I tried non-loopback mode. I tried mike routing into REW from Jack on the theory that the latency has to be the same for the generator and the input. Jack definitely is feeding BOTH inputs of REW even though it sees two input ports on REW. In1 and In2 read on both meters of REW :-(. 

I'll play around with a few more ideas, but so far we're dead in the water. If it means anything to you, I was successful using Acourate to analyze this room with the identical interface on the PC and with ASIO. So you might ask why should I bother to use REW if I have Acourate? Good question. Answer: Because REW has a few analysis features that Acourate does not have. And I'm an analysis addict ;-)


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## bobkatz

*Re: A new solution: OSXJack. Works great!*

Well, I was able to use Fuzz Measure on this interface and it works fine. So the problems are Java-related. It's a pity that LineInput has broken in Mavericks. I might never have restarted this thread :-(. I'm going back to the PC and try to debug that. It worked once and then failed from that point on (REW was not seeing the interface).


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## DanDan

Hi Bob. Thanks for your staunch efforts. I have been there....... although the complexities of Jack were beyond me. 
Is Line In really broken in Mavericks? I have a new boot SSD in my studio computer. afaik I have successfully used LineIn on Mavericks. ( I use Line In to access Dirac Live as a virtual piece of HW) Long story.
All readers plse note the onboard Line Input and Output both Analogue and Digital Optical on the Mac work fine with REW. 
FuzzMeasure works fine with Macs and the IR's can be exported for Import into REW which has more and better analysis features. 
DD


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## bobkatz

DanDan said:


> Hi Bob. Thanks for your staunch efforts. I have been there....... although the complexities of Jack were beyond me.
> Is Line In really broken in Mavericks? I have a new boot SSD in my studio computer. afaik I have successfully used LineIn on Mavericks. ( I use Line In to access Dirac Live as a virtual piece of HW) Long story.
> All readers plse note the onboard Line Input and Output both Analogue and Digital Optical on the Mac work fine with REW.
> FuzzMeasure works fine with Macs and the IR's can be exported for Import into REW which has more and better analysis features.
> DD


Excellent point Dan about exporting the IRs from Fuzzmeasure! That's exactly the procedure I will do from this moment on. I don't know for sure if LineIn is broken on Mavericks, I only know that the installer crashed on my machine. Did you install LineIn back in the day and then upgrade to Mavericks? Jack looks daunting, but it is really a sweet puppy that any engineer who has ever patched a gozinta into a gozouta can conquer. Just read the manual, then turn it on and use it. Suddenly the light bulb will light up and you've got it. Did you read my procedure in the other thread?

As for the onboard of the MacPro. I don't want to go lofi and use the analog interface. However, I do have the optical digital out of the MacPro hooked up and it can feed my DAC in Studio B. For the input side, I'll rig up an SPDIF to Toslink converter and try using the MOTU as a standalone external ADC. If the Mac can be put into external sync on digital in and then Java can address it maybe we can do it that way. Sounds like a project for another rainy weekend.


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## DanDan

Unfortunately Bob, there is a little more..... 
When Exporting from FM, first Normalise, then chose 24 or 32 Bit, not the default 16.
Import the resulting Aiff or Wav into REW and let the analysis begin. In a sense I wish that REW also cost 150 bucks because FM is kinda withering on the vine because the developer is trying to make a living with his other (quite interesting) iapps. 
I will try Jack, reading your above post, in an effort to enable my Dirac Live workaround, which despite your gozintas and outas, which I regularly use, would make your eyes water. LineIn works for me but randomly comes up with long latencies which have to be cleared by clicking the pass through..... Two second long latencies.....
Mavericks finally dumps all support for PPC code. I expect that his why the Line In installer would not work. 
Just copy your previous LineIn or I can send you the one I have working on Mav. 

And more. Digidesign CoreAudioManager can nicely screw any scenario up if you change from 44.1 to 48 and then try to return. Glorious silence..... What is it with 48K? I never regarded this as a norm or a default, yet, Digidesign and many others, like MiniDSP, do. 

Just to get fully back OT here though, are you now saying as I did some posts ago? ...i.e. 'These workarounds are not working'

DD


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## giannigia84

thx a lot john,
now everything works as expected with osx 10.6.8 and digi 002 .
:T


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## bobkatz

Dear DanDan and crew:

Yes, I am saying that these workarounds are not working for me, at least with the MOTU interface and the ULN-8. The problem with the ULN-8 is its output patching facility is not seen by REW, although it is seen by every other audio application on the Mac. The reason: Javasound. Audio applications have to directly support CoreAudio on the Mac in order to really work well. I'd be happy to switch back to PC, but I've got troubles with this MOTU interface and REW over there as you know. 

*My suggestion to John* is that he continue to develop REW as a wonderful analysis program written in Java. And create an ancillary program written in another language for both PC and Mac that can do the sweeps. On the PC this ancillary program should support ASIO directly and stably. On the Mac it should support CoreAudio directly and stably. Maybe he should charge for the sampling program but continue to make REW freeware? In John's "copious free time" of course... 

As an analyzer, REW works great and has some of the best and easiest-to-use and understand audio analysis tools on the planet. I also have Acourate and admire it greatly. It can do things which REW never dreamed of, it is extremely powerful but the learning curve is high. Even so, it does not have the graphic displays like RT60 and waterfalls, the automatic calculation of Eq's for IIR-based products, etc. Horses for courses as they say. REW was developed by a developer who knows how to make user-friendly software, right on down to the help menu. It should be a commercial product, John, I'd pay $200 for REW today! Actually, I did contribute to the HTS, hope some of this money got to John. 

I decided to pretend it was a rainy day and try using the digital I/O of the MacPro with REW. The Mac Pro with Snow Leopard doesn't apparently lock to an external optical source as I could not even see the microphone output in OSX's Sound preferences. So end of that story. 

Thanks for the offer, DanDan, but don't send me LineIn. I never had it in the first place and I'd rather not engage in the workaround. My short term memory isn't what it used to be, and carrying around a set of complicated notes just to take a sweep is not my idea of a fun day. 

BK



DanDan said:


> Unfortunately Bob, there is a little more.....
> When Exporting from FM, first Normalise, then chose 24 or 32 Bit, not the default 16.
> Import the resulting Aiff or Wav into REW and let the analysis begin. In a sense I wish that REW also cost 150 bucks because FM is kinda withering on the vine because the developer is trying to make a living with his other (quite interesting) iapps.
> I will try Jack, reading your above post, in an effort to enable my Dirac Live workaround, which despite your gozintas and outas, which I regularly use, would make your eyes water. LineIn works for me but randomly comes up with long latencies which have to be cleared by clicking the pass through..... Two second long latencies.....
> Mavericks finally dumps all support for PPC code. I expect that his why the Line In installer would not work.
> Just copy your previous LineIn or I can send you the one I have working on Mav.
> 
> And more. Digidesign CoreAudioManager can nicely screw any scenario up if you change from 44.1 to 48 and then try to return. Glorious silence..... What is it with 48K? I never regarded this as a norm or a default, yet, Digidesign and many others, like MiniDSP, do.
> 
> Just to get fully back OT here though, are you now saying as I did some posts ago? ...i.e. 'These workarounds are not working'
> 
> DD


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## bobkatz

Oh by the way, the Impulse which I exported from FuzzMeasure has some garbage in front of the impulse that FuzzMeasure itself does not show. So it must be some artifact of the export or perhaps the normalization. I shortened the REW analysis left hand window to (hopefully) not include most of that garbage. Here's a picture of it. Any thoughts on the cause or whether it hurts any of the analysis to include this garbage that's in front of the impulse?


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## DanDan

Bit beyond my pay grade but as best I can describe it, that pre information is the distortion. 
Take no notice of it, but keep it in case you want to view harmonic distortion. 
My MacPro is on Snow Leopard (and Mavericks on a second SSD boot) It is happily accepting a Digital Optical Stream from my Digi HD192. BUT a friend has just noticed that his MacPro won't accept 96K on the Dig input, while his Macbook Pro will. The following is working fine for me....LOL, try Gozinta on this lot.







Note, the AMS stated Unlocked until I quit and reopened it! 
Fuzz has a wonderful facility for remote recording. It generates a sweep that can be played on anything and the result recorded into anything, even Zooms or whatever. Altiverb has an even better system. But unfortunately I need to see my results immediately as this often dictates the next test, e.g. a change of position of speaker or mic and so on. 

DD


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## Esprit

Can I use[*] REW with an UMIK-1 virtualizing Windows on the Mac (Parallels, Fusion, etc ...)?

[*]_"properly and fully functional" _


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## EarlK

Esprit said:


> Can I use[*] REW with an UMIK-1 virtualizing Windows on the Mac (Parallels, Fusion, etc ...)?
> 
> [*]_"properly and fully functional" _



The answer to your question is currently unknown ( as far as I'm concerned ) due to the fact that "Mavericks" has broken a couple of basic functionalities that people have come to rely on .

Running in an emulated ( virtual ) PC mode is ( apparently ) no longer a guarantee of success for REW/Java compatibility ( due to something changing within Mavericks ) . 


In my ( limited ) experience , OSX 10.6.8 ( with Java 6 ) was the "sweet-spot" for REW compatibility ( when running an Intel-based Mac ) .

:sn:


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## Esprit

All new Mac cannot use Snow Leopard.
To summarize: REW isn't a software to be used with a Mac
It isn't multi-platform (it is better to try/find/look for another sw) :huh:


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## EarlK

Esprit said:


> All new Mac cannot use Snow Leopard.
> To summarize: REW isn't a software to be used with a Mac
> It isn't multi-platform (it is better to try/find/look for another sw) :huh:



The quoted text, read as statements ( since they lack the required *"?"* after the text ) so I'll treat them as such .

i) Your Line 1 is true .

ii) I would debate line 2 ( since you didn't use the word *"new"* before the word *Mac* . REW has been used successfully with earlier versions of the Mac OS .

iii) Line 3 ( looks to be ) true, if one is insistent on using a Mac that is running Mavericks .

:sn:


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## Esprit

Can I use an UMIK-1?
Easily? No, there are problems...

Can I use a FW interface?
Easily? No, there are problems...

Can I use Mavericks? Easily?
No, there are problems... (Apple doesn't sell previous versions of Mac OSX nor allows you to install it...)

In order to use REW with my Mac, I've bought so many useless things (UMIK the latest) that now I can say: _"REW isn't for Mac users"_

I think it is the sw which must be written according to the OS. 
Not the other way...

P.S. I'd pay for a working version with Mac OSX.


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## bobkatz

I spoke to a world-class expert (Jim Johnston) about the garbage in front of the impulse and he said basically, no ifs, ands or buts, they have to fix it (they being FuzzMeasure). Since this garbage does not appear in FuzzMeasure's own display, it's probably not a problem for them, but then again, I don't think FuzzMeasure's display goes far enough back in negative time to be sure. JJ told me that the garbage is probably wraparound from the sweep and can cause all kinds of anomalies. And you can't get around it by windowing closet to the 0 as you don't know what other kinds of anomalies are occurring. 

My solution: Sample in Acourate and export to REW. This works already, very well, I already tried it. Or, get another interface for my portable work :-(. Or, wait till John fixes the ASIO issue on the PC side. The Mac side will take a lot longer, if ever, for him to fix, sadly.


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## DanDan

*Expert*

Hi Bob, I am communicating with JohnPM and the head guy at MiniDSP, regarding the problems between Apple and Java and REW and MiniDSP. 
There is a compounded impossible situation here. Apple are not doing Java, MiniDSP products are 48K natural, or only 48K in the case of the UMIK-1. There appears to be a reasonable chance of REW working with the UMIK-1 if it were changed to 44.1K. JohnPM is very helpful regarding REW, which is why I know about the association between the pre-image and distortion. There is only one real expert IMO. Perhaps if one considers the concept of pre-ringing in filters, it may become palatable to see action before zero? This is a normal REW graph of a measurement done in REW, not an import.








DD


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## bobkatz

*Re: Expert*

Dear DanDan:

While you're waiting for the developers of the MiniDSP to try to solve the Mac problems, why not install Bootcamp on your Mac and work in Windows? It takes me 1 minute total to switch operating systems on my SSD-equipped MacBook pro.

Now to go off-topic. Your image in dBFS shows something happening in front of the impulse but it is not the same phenomenon that I saw with the import from REW. That was NOT preringing or pre-echo of any form, and according to Jim Johnston, a respected world's expert on this topic, that was some form of wraparound distortion that should nullify the use of an import from REW. 

Now in terms of interpreting your log scale impulse, those look to me like anomalies in the noise floor of your room contaminating the measurement in some way. It is not distortion caused by the sampling. I believe these echos are too far away from the impulse to be caused by pre-ringing in a filter. Attached are three pictures from my measurements in Studio A, which has a noise floor below 30 dBC. The linear is an extreme zoom to exagerrate any ringing or pre-impulse, and as you can see it still looks very well behaved. Those pre-rings are within 1 ms. of the start of the impulse while yours go back in the hundreds of milliseconds, which looks like an acoustical noise-related contamination issue to me. These are not imports either as I take measurements with REW directly using a Lynx Soundcard. I suggest you try averaging your impulses to reduce noise influence and see if that three-peak anomaly goes away. Or, if you are not taking the measurement at sufficient SPL, try taking it at a higher SPL to see what you get in front of your speaker impulse. 

I also added a second log picture of the same impulse with as close to the identical zoom as in your image. The impulse starts at 908 actual milliseconds as due to the use of Acourate Convolver with FIR filters with a 65k long impulse there is nearly 1 second latency in my system!

If you disagree with my interpretations, we could both defer to our respective experts and agree to meet in a duel at high noon ;-).


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## HifiZine

I'm a bit confused about the turn taken by the discussion as the REW docs state quite clearly that the images of the impulse before zero are distortion images.










(http://www.roomeqwizard.com/wizardhelpv5/help_en-GB/html/impulseresponse.html)

Returning somewhat to the topic of this thread, I run REW (and UMIK-1) regularly in Windows (7) under VMWare Fusion. I suppose that could be considered another approach to the OSX workaround, if you have a Windows license. I read there are various issues with Mavericks but have not explored them (and probably won't...!)


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## bobkatz

In that case, HiFiZine, then I am mistaken about the anomalies which DanDan measured. I've learned something today! It also looks like the amplitude of the 2nd and additional harmonics is VERY LOW in my Studio A system! I've not seen anomalies like those ever in my Studio A pictures. I'll have to zoom in and look for them. 

Regardless, I've decided not to trust the REW import that I got under expert advice. (see my previous post the other day).


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## bobkatz

Now we're getting down to something (still off topic). Approximately a year ago I switched from an analog-based subwoofer eq to a full DRC and digital crossover using Acourate convolver. In the previous measurement taken January 2013, I can see some small spikes in the negative time before the impulse (much less than in either DanDan's or PM's example picture). But since then I am using Acourate Convolver. The harmonic distortion measurements (using REW) have lowered by 15 dB between 20 and 200 Hz! Due to the use of a steep linear phase crossover keeping the woofer better within its operating range than any standard crossover. Probably that's why I have not seen any spikes in the impulse in negative time since that point. 

If you would like to see some of my before-after Acourate Convolver measurements of the front speakers I can start another thread if you would like.


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## DanDan

*Experts*

Bob, I have bounced measurements back and forth between FM and REW extensively and for a long time. 
The default behaviour of FM, not normalising and choosing 16Bit when exporting did show truncation in the resulting REW imports. That was about the extent of the problems I and many others looking carefully encountered. 
This computer, my office iMac is on Mavericks and most of my online viewing and analysis are done here. 
Due to your unease about the FM import I decided to test today. The expert to end all experts perhaps, the test....
I am using the onboard mic and speakers, which both REW and FM have always been happy with. I tried sweeps in both FM and REW and exported at 32 Bit, Normalised in FM and Not. 
Without extensive and careful testing of each element there is no point in going in to any detail.
But from the immediate results I would not trust the Export and Import process at all right now. Certainly from FM to REW. Normalising seems to cause problems and the IR window seems to get included in the Export. 

I don't think we will see a solution to the Apple Java issues any time soon, probably never, so the interface problems will remain. Seems like nothing other than a stereo USB will work for REW on a Mac. 
I do believe that if the UMIK clock were changed to 44.! the Mac problems would go. I, and Apple it seems, do not regard 48K as a go to or norm for music. 


DD


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## Esprit

HifiZine said:


> under VMWare Fusion.


Very interesting. Thanks


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## bobkatz

*Re: Experts*

Guys, I have had complete success interchanging impulse responses between Acourate and REW and I do feel confident in that. The two programs go hand in hand. Acourate for the nitty gritty stuff and REW for the pretty stuff .


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## HifiZine

Esprit said:


> Very interesting. Thanks


Hi, just to clarify, as I realized that earlier you said (I think) that you are using Mavericks - I'm not, still on ML.


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## liscio

Howdy folks,

I've been summoned by a few users, and would like to wrap my head around what's going on here. 

It sounds like people are having trouble exporting FuzzMeasure impulses into REW? What is the specific issue that is causing problems?

I'm looking at graphs that appear to include the distortion components (i.e. the "mini impulses" that appear to the left of the initial impulse response, decreasing in amplitude as you move further to the "left" of the initial impulse.) Those are totally normal in the context of swept sine measurements (and part of their power!)

Thanks!

Chris


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## liscio

DanDan said:


> …because FM is kinda withering on the vine because the developer is trying to make a living with his other (quite interesting) iapps.


Just a point of clarification here, if I may.

FuzzMeasure follows a much more glacial development schedule out of necessity right now. The "iapps" just happen to have opened the doors to my being able to hire some help over the past 6 months, and I hope that the effects of their sales will be apparent on FuzzMeasure's development in the coming months.

Building Capo has been an enlightening journey, as it drew on my FuzzMeasure experience to design and develop some advanced features in an otherwise non-advanced product segment. I'm revolutionizing a market that has been short on "fancy DSP technology." But Capo has also taught me some new tricks that I hope to bring to FuzzMeasure users in the near future. 

From the outside, I know it looks like I've been saying that a lot, but I assure you that there has been more work happening than is apparent. For instance, the latest 3.3 update included a major audio engine revamp that was pulled in from my work on 4.0. It enabled multi-channel sweep outputs as well as fewer measurement issues with certain classes of audio devices. All of these are "invisible" improvements, but important ones nonetheless.

If all goes well with my next "iapps" release, I hope to add another full-time engineer to help me bring FuzzMeasure's next major release to market faster. I wish I could share more details, but I am truly excited about what the future holds for FuzzMeasure.

Chris


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## DanDan

Hi Chris, welcome! I sent you an email which is probably pertinent to this, although it may not be that apparent. The following will explain what I mean and the summary may be helpful to all readers. Do note the earlier post by Esprit though, saying exactly the same thing

For some time people have been successfully Exporting and Importing IR's between REW and FM. 
For some time we have been able to use LineIn and SoundFlower to allow REW to function on the Mac's crippled version of Java. 
A very similar workaround enabled the UMIK-1 to work with REW on Macs. Much thanks to the OP John Reekie here. 

All of this has changed with the introduction of Mavericks. 
I have never seen such a disastrous OS update before, in fact I have never seen an update which was negative in any way. Plse note that ProTools 11 users and probably others are having nightmares with Mavericks also. 

Now on my iMac with Mavericks 10.9.2 installed:- 
I cannot get the UMIK to function. MiniDSP are being very helpful, but ultimately I believe it will take a hardware change to 44.1K to make this device Java/Mac friendly. 
On brief tests exporting from FM to REW the graphs are significantly different. 

EDIT, Chris and I SimulTyping..... Is there an app for that? 
Just to be fully clear. FuzzMeasure is a fully capable acoustic tool and works perfectly on Macs, including ALL interface types, and the onboard 1/O.
The UMIK-1 works perfectly with all normal Mac apps. 
REW works perfectly using the Mac onboard I/O. This is of a perfectly acceptable quality for Acoustic Measurement. I have measured 20-20K on this iMac, with less than 0.1dB variation, and negligible distortion. 


DD


----------



## liscio

DanDan said:


> Now on my iMac with Mavericks 10.9.2 installed:-
> I cannot get the UMIK to function. MiniDSP are being very helpful, but ultimately I believe it will take a hardware change to 44.1K to make this device Java/Mac friendly.


That seems rather drastic. If the device wants to operate at a better sample rate, it should! As long as it's a class-compliant USB hardware device, we should be OK. I'll be communicating with the miniDSP folks as well to ensure everything's behaving itself with FM as well.



> On brief tests exporting from FM to REW the graphs are significantly different.


Could you elaborate on this? You have to understand that a normalized impulse response will peak at 1.0 at the peak of the impulse itself. That won't necessarily normalize the ETC graphs or frequency response graphs.

That is, a peak of 1.0 (or 0 dBFS) in the time domain doesn't guarantee the same peak in the frequency domain. That's just not how the math works.

Anyway, examples of how exported impulses aren't coming across in REW would be helpful for me to explain this better here.

Chris


----------



## DanDan

We should get a room Chris! I haven't had time to repeat the quick Export/Import tests I did but I will. 
I am not sure it is fully On Topic in this thread though. Perhaps another thread on the havoc which is being wreaked throughout the audio community by Mavericks? 
Or a focus on the Java(sound)/Mac issue here, which I am convinced by the warning messages in REW, is a 44.1K thing. 
IMO, 44.1K is the common FS for music and should be the primarily default in all software and hardware. As it stands 48K reigns. 

I am 100% certain that the UMIK-1 and FuzzMeasure are working perfectly on Macs. 

The UMIK-1 is a regular USB device, but this does not guarantee function with REW on Macs. REW also fails to function at anything other than 48K, although not always. REW also doesn't work even with class compliant interfaces which are more than 2 Channel USB, or Firewire of any size. 







DD


----------



## liscio

DanDan said:


> I haven't had time to repeat the quick Export/Import tests I did but I will.


I'll stay tuned.



> I am not sure it is fully On Topic in this thread though. Perhaps another thread on the havoc which is being wreaked throughout the audio community by Mavericks?


I'm not familiar with much havoc from my end. CoreAudio is a fairly stable system that hasn't changed very much if at all over the past few years.



> I am 100% certain that the UMIK-1 and FuzzMeasure are working perfectly on Macs.


Glad to hear it. Honestly, as long as hardware works with CoreAudio it should work with FuzzMeasure trouble-free.



> The UMIK-1 is a regular USB device, but this does not guarantee function with REW on Macs. REW also fails to function at anything other than 48K, although not always. REW also doesn't work even with class compliant interfaces which are more than 2 Channel USB, or Firewire of any size.
> DD


That's a real bummer, and I'm not sure who is at fault, as I'm not familiar with the matter.


----------



## DanDan

*Rotten Apple*

Chris, REW is a Java app. It works fine on PC's and I presume Linux machines etc. all of which implement Java as it's designers specify. Apple have not complied for a long time, thus the problems and the workaround of this thread. 

DD


----------



## liscio

*Re: Rotten Apple*



DanDan said:


> Chris, REW is a Java app. It works fine on PC's and I presume Linux machines etc. all of which implement Java as it's designers specify. Apple have not complied for a long time, thus the problems and the workaround of this thread.
> 
> DD


For what it's worth, Java's runtime should be maintained by Oracle, and I believe they're the ones doing the work to make sure it runs well on PCs. I don't believe they put the same level of effort into maintaining it on OS X.

If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that whatever team is tasked with maintaining the OS X java runtime simply doesn't have the expertise or motivation to make the audio side work perfectly. I also use MATLAB which is java-based, and they have more than their fair share of issues with the runtime as well.

I think that, once upon a time, Apple used to have a hand in keeping the runtime up to date, but whether Apple simply doesn't care or Oracle isn't allowing them to maintain the runtime themselves is another story. To be honest, I don't think it's necessarily fair for Apple to be required to do this work. Ultimately Java is a technology product that promises cross-platform functionality, and hence the onus is on the Java folks to do whatever it takes to live up to their claims.

But that's just my own $0.02.


----------



## DanDan

*Compatible*

That's interesting Chris. However, to my knowledge, there are things in OSX treatment of Java which are not compatible with the Java specs. As the purpose of Java is to be a mulitplatform, ahem platform, surely it behoves all of OS's to comply with one central set of specs. I mean, it makes little sense to include Java compatibility in an OS, but leave out or disobey certain aspects. Windows and afaik Linux treat it with re (spec)t and REW works perfectly. 

BTW, Chris and Bob, I have been trying some Export/Import tests. When I force both apps to run at the same Sample Rate, despite REW's protests, i.e. 48Khz the 32 Bit WAV Ex/Im seems to mostly work fine for most graphs. The only flaw I see is that the distortion pre-images are missing in REW. I am fairly sure these used to transfer across before Mavericks. 
I will test further but will PM both of you with anything interesting as I believe this is a tad Off Topic. 
I just wanted to reinstate the probability that capturing on FM and viewing in REW, on Macs seems still viable. 
I expect the Distortion thing to be a small fix or perhaps some parameter I have overlooked. 
DD


----------



## liscio

*Re: Compatible*



DanDan said:


> That's interesting Chris. However, to my knowledge, there are things in OSX treatment of Java which are not compatible with the Java specs. As the purpose of Java is to be a mulitplatform, ahem platform, surely it behoves all of OS's to comply with one central set of specs. I mean, it makes little sense to include Java compatibility in an OS, but leave out or disobey certain aspects. Windows and afaik Linux treat it with re (spec)t and REW works perfectly.


That's not how it works in practice. OS X moves to the beat of its own drum, and Java needs to keep up. I'm sure there's a two-sided arrangement in place, and for some reason it's not functioning as we'd like.

There is undoubtedly some animosity towards Java due to recent security vulnerabilities introduced by the Java runtime. Similar stuff has happened with Adobe's Flash as well. Apple doesn't own either technology, yet failings on the part of Adobe and Oracle ultimately lead to a stain on Apple's reputation with their customers. Apple doesn't really need to take this anymore, and I can understand why they continue to treat third-party cross-platform frameworks and applications as third-class citizens.

Is it ideal for consumers? That's arguable, and not worth exploring here as you pointed out. Way off topic.



> BTW, Chris and Bob, I have been trying some Export/Import tests. When I force both apps to run at the same Sample Rate, despite REW's protests, i.e. 48Khz the 32 Bit WAV Ex/Im seems to mostly work fine for most graphs. The only flaw I see is that the distortion pre-images are missing in REW. I am fairly sure these used to transfer across before Mavericks.
> I will test further but will PM both of you with anything interesting as I believe this is a tad Off Topic.
> I just wanted to reinstate the probability that capturing on FM and viewing in REW, on Macs seems still viable.
> I expect the Distortion thing to be a small fix or perhaps some parameter I have overlooked.
> DD


Distortion is an environmental thing. You're either seeing distortion in your measurements, or you're not—this isn't "configurable." I'd say that if you're seeing those distortion peaks, then you might want to look at your signal chain to see why it's distorting to begin with, and measure until it mostly disappears.


----------



## DanDan

*Working Together*

Interesting points well stated Chris. Also firmly On Topic I reckon. 

The Ex/Im thing is not so on topic. I am not sure what you are saying re distortion. I can see the harmonic distortion traces in FM, but when the same sweep is Ex/Im to REW, the Distortion graph has nothing but the fundamental trace. And, the usual pre-0 distortion image is entirely missing. Note this seems similar to BoB Katz earlier posts. Let's continue this in email. 
DD


----------



## Esprit

DanDan said:


> Hi Chris, welcome! I sent you an email


 Me too


----------



## DanDan

*Exporting Import*

I have done a little testing. Exporting from FM and importing to REW seems to be working perfectly. 
No need to Normalise and I am choosing 32Bit Export. The Distortion components do not make it across, it seems they cannot be, or are not included, within an Exported WAV. This is hardly a drawback as Distortion can be viewed in FM in any case. 

DD


----------



## DanDan

*44.1*

Regarding the other issue, I have been informed that


> Apple's Javasound implementation only appears to work for devices that operate at 44.1k.


We do find examples of REW working at 48K, e.g. after an Import. But it won't communicate with properly with an interface running at 48K, with or without the workaround. I am guessing that this new 'broken' behaviour could well be due to changes caused by Mavericks. 
DD


----------



## JDsVoiceWorks

i down loaded the REW and after unsuccessfully running a calibration. the static noise is still on my interface even after Ive uninstalled the rew program. On Mac oSX 10.9
I'm using a Lexicon Omega USB interface


----------



## adrianproduces

My rig: MacBook 2.13 GHz Intel Duo, 2 GB RAM, OS 10.6.8, PreSouns Firebox (2-channel)

I did all the recommended steps for this workaround, and was not successful. I configured Step 3 as suggested, but when I got to Step 5 and clicked "Pass Thru" I never got any meter bounce in the LineIn app window. I've attached grabs of REW5 preference (screen1), LineIn (screen2) and Audio MIDI Set-Up (screen3) windows. The REW5 Prefs gives me default, SoundFlower 2ch, built-in mic, built-in input:line in, PreSouns Firebox and SoundFlower 64 ch for input. The REW5 output choices are default and Java Sound Engine. With LIneIn the input choices are the same plus "silence". I included the Audio MIDI window just in case.

Any other suggestions? Or is this "operator error"? Do I need a Ph.D. ("push here dummy")? Thanks for helping.

Cheers!
AP


----------



## HifiZine

adrianproduces said:


> I never got any meter bounce in the LineIn app window.


Hi, do you have the Firebox selected as input in LineIn?

Can you confirm using some other program that you actually are getting audio in from the Firebox to the Mac? Phantom power is on?


----------



## SoSleepy

Hi everyone - first time posting here  Hopefully I have the right thread...

I'm new to REW. I was hoping to use REW with a Mac (running Mavericks), a UMIK-1 mic, and a HDMI connection. I understand that this is currently not possible - is this correct? (I would be using these in combination with SoundFlower and LineIn).

Thanks


----------



## EarlK

SoSleepy said:


> Hi everyone - first time posting here  Hopefully I have the right thread...
> 
> I'm new to REW. I was hoping to use REW with a Mac (running Mavericks), a UMIK-1 mic, and a HDMI connection. I understand that this is currently not possible - is this correct? (I would be using these in combination with SoundFlower and LineIn).
> 
> Thanks


( Currently,), there is *not a single report of a user, successfully running this software/hardware combo ( REW-UMIK-1 ) on a Mac using Mavericks* as the OS, ( there are many, many negative reports ) .


:sn:


----------



## SoSleepy

EarlK said:


> ( Currently ), there is *not a single report of a user, successfully running this software ( REW ) on a Mac using Mavericks* as the OS, ( there are many, many negative reports ) .
> 
> 
> :sn:


Thanks Earl though that doesn't sound good at all. Any hope for a solution?


----------



## JohnM

I suspect it would work on Mavericks using the onboard sound at 44.1k, but I'll buy a new Mac mini in a few weeks and see how I get on with making REW run on it.


----------



## SoSleepy

JohnM said:


> I suspect it would work on Mavericks using the onboard sound at 44.1k, but I'll buy a new Mac mini in a few weeks and see how I get on with making REW run on it.


John,

This sounds great. Just to be clear, would this likely enable me to use the UMIK-1? (For international people like myself, the UMIK-1 is the only mic Cross Spectrum Labs sells.)


----------



## JohnM

SoSleepy said:


> would this likely enable me to use the UMIK-1?


Don't know yet, the UMIK runs at 48k and Apple's JavaSound implementation has issues when not running at 44.1k. Might have improved with Java 7 from Oracle, but I won't know until I get the mini and do some testing.


----------



## DanDan

REW works fine with the Mac I/O and Mavericks. 
I have not been able to get any of the workarounds to work, although it seems certain that they used to work on Mountain Lion etc. 
DD


----------



## SoSleepy

DanDan said:


> REW works fine with the Mac I/O and Mavericks.
> I have not been able to get any of the workarounds to work, although it seems certain that they used to work on Mountain Lion etc.
> DD


By Mac I/O I take it you are referring to the mic in and headphone ports? (My iMac doesn't have a mic in port. I was hoping to use REW via HDMI (using a Thunderbolt to HDMI convertor)).


----------



## DanDan

I am referring to any of the Mac I/O ports or devices. I often take sweeps on my iMac using the onboard Mic and Speakers, when checking the software or to generate examples of measurement behaviour. 
The iMac probably has a Line In, some include a Digital Optical option. 
I haven't tried the HDMI workaround but I cannot see how it would work. The issue here is that the Mac Javasound will not work at 48Khz. The workarounds may well have worked on previous OSX but Mavericks has put a stop to all of that. I have tried Java 7, no improvement. 

DD


----------



## SoSleepy

DanDan,

Thanks. It looks like I would require a USB audio interface as my late 2013 iMac doesn't have a Line In or a Digital Optical connection. 

I suppose I'll wait and see if John is able to get things going.


----------



## DanDan

That is unfortunate. A 2 channel USB interface will hopefully work. Be careful to buy an interface which is sure to work. Ideally borrow one to try. 
I don't know where you are, but this German company sells calibrated mics of a high standard, for a decent price. http://www.acoustics.isemcon.com
DD


----------



## Xipper

SoSleepy said:


> DanDan,
> 
> Thanks. It looks like I would require a USB audio interface as my late 2013 iMac doesn't have a Line In or a Digital Optical connection.


The headphone jack also has a digital optical line-out in it, or at least that is how almost every Apple computer thats been made for a number of years has worked (including Airport Express audio out). Line in is missing though.


----------



## SoSleepy

Xipper,

Thanks for the clarification though, as you noted, Line In is still missing. Hopefully connecting via HDMI will become possible. I think the simplicity of connecting via HDMI was one of reasons I was drawn to try REW. Anyway, hopefully things work out - I can't wait to get REW running so I can start optimizing my room setup.


----------



## SoSleepy

JohnM said:


> Don't know yet, the UMIK runs at 48k and Apple's JavaSound implementation has issues when not running at 44.1k. Might have improved with Java 7 from Oracle, but I won't know until I get the mini and do some testing.


Hi John,

Have you had a chance to look into this?


----------



## JohnM

Yes, I'm working on it at the moment using JRE8u5 on 10.9.3. Looking good so far, there is now a full JavaSound implementation in the JRE and it is performing well, should have a new build in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## SoSleepy

Wow, excellent! Sounds great  Thank you!


----------



## razzkazz

Hi Everyone

I just tried the latest beta version (RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar) with a MOTU Ultralite MK1 (firewire) and the soundcard calibration worked perfectly.

Thanks 
Alan


----------



## EarlK

razzkazz said:


> Hi Everyone
> 
> I just tried the latest beta version (RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar) with a MOTU Ultralite MK1 (firewire) and the soundcard calibration worked perfectly.
> 
> Thanks
> Alan


Nice ! :T That's great news !

What version of the Mac OS are you running ?

:sn:


----------



## Ovation123

I have 10.9.3 and, after some initial difficulties (nothing to do with REW, but with the card settings), I got my Edirol UA-3FX USB sound card to calibrate properly with REW.


----------



## razzkazz

EarlK said:


> Nice ! :T That's great news !
> 
> What version of the Mac OS are you running ?
> 
> :sn:


OSX 10.9.2

Alan


----------



## steadydave

Hi John and company
I am just getting ready to purchase a Minidsp Umik and was wondering if there has been any success in getting this hardware to play nice with REW in OSX land ... running 10.9.4 on a Mac-mini.
Just built some Open Baffles and would like to take some measurements and get this room right.

Thanks ... Dave


----------



## JohnM

Yes, since beta 21 workarounds are no longer required for 10.7.3 or later.


----------



## jan.z

I tried it the first time today. Unfortunately I couldn't gt it started.
I am using a MacBook pro 15" 2010 with a a RME Fireface UFX. I can get the pink noise out of the soundcard but can't loop it back to the programm (no input metering). Microphone isn't working as well (no input metering).

I read the getting along from John Reekie but didn't help. The Version 5 crashes maybe wrong buffer size?
Am I doing anything wrong??:help:
Line in is installed and passes the audio through which I can see in the graphs. But Soundflower isn'T doing anything. I guess


EDIT: Is Working now!!! Patch mistake ;-)


----------



## steadydave

Thanks John ... will post when I have fired up the hardware


----------



## oramos

I have read a lot of posts but still unclear on whether a macbook pro retina with ox 10.9.4 (which is mavericks latest version) will work with REW using a USB mic - MiniDSP UMIK-1. Maybe there isn't a clear answer but please let me know. 

I also have Fusion running MS Windows 8.1 if it is easier to run virtually. 

Do i need to run HDMI out to processor if processor has built in tones?

Thanks!


----------



## DanDan

REW Beta 21 works fine with the UMIK-1 on OSX 10.9.4 here. 
You have to use the tone sweeps generated by REW. Line Out or Headphone Out.
DD


----------



## SoSleepy

As someone who has never used REW before, I was waiting for the latest version to come out of beta but I suppose I can give the beta a go...

Some questions:
1. Is REW now working with the UMIK-1 and HDMI (ie, can I just use a HDMI connection rather than an analog connection between my Mac and receiver)?
2. If so, with the latest version of REW, do I still need to use SoundFlower and LineIn?

Cheers


----------



## DanDan

The latest Beta REW works happily at 48K and thus the UMIK-1 works perfectly. 
I don't know HDMI, but if your computer can output on HDMI while using the USB of the UMIK for audio input, it will work fine. 
DD


----------



## SoSleepy

DanDan said:


> The latest Beta REW works happily at 48K and thus the UMIK-1 works perfectly.
> I don't know HDMI, but if your computer can output on HDMI while using the USB of the UMIK for audio input, it will work fine.
> DD


Thank you DanDan - I think I'll soon be ordering a UMIK-1. Its going to be great to finally be able to see what my room response is like and to start optimizing


----------



## wes

How do yo output sound from the mac using HDMi


----------



## SoSleepy

wes said:


> How do yo output sound from the mac using HDMi


Have a look at the following guide:

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-au...es-how-interpret-graphs-153.html#post23724589

I haven't personally tried this yet but it has worked for others in the past.


----------



## oramos

thanks, i got that to work! was confused as seemed from other posts like newest beta version eliminated need for sound flower


----------



## SoSleepy

oramos said:


> thanks, i got that to work! was confused as seemed from other posts like newest beta version eliminated need for sound flower


Fantastic that it worked out for you. So I take it you still need to use Soundflower and LineIn? I have my mic arriving in the next week or so. Originally I was going to go the HDMI route right away but I've now decided to initially just use an analog connection to my AVR as my first task will be restricted to finding a good location for my sub. It will be my first time using REW - can't wait


----------



## steadydave

This is great folks ... the UMik was purchased last week. Will be using analogue as well and a 2X4 Minidisp/REW for a two driver open baffle (tubes for the full ranger and a solid state beast for the woofer). Can't wait for you folks to share your experiences.


----------



## oramos

I don't need LineIn just Soundflower. I am using HDMI. Good luck?


----------



## SoSleepy

I'm using REW with an Apple mouse, the kind with a touch sensitive surface for scrolling. I'm finding I'm accidentally zooming my graphs when my finger accidentally brushes the mouse surface. Is it possible to disable this graph zoom via the mouse?


----------



## JohnM

SoSleepy said:


> I'm using REW with an Apple mouse, the kind with a touch sensitive surface for scrolling. I'm finding I'm accidentally zooming my graphs when my finger accidentally brushes the mouse surface. Is it possible to disable this graph zoom via the mouse?


I've added a View preference for that in the next beta.


----------



## SoSleepy

John, that sounds great - thank you.


----------



## nathan_h

Any way to do a sweep and measure one channel on a mac with HDMI, without Soundflower? Everything I am reading suggests it is still required.


----------



## nathan_h

JohnM said:


> Edit 29th June 2014: Use V5.01 beta 21 or later (available here) for OS X 10.7.3 onwards, removes the need for workarounds.


Then I really have a rookie question: How do I specify single channel output without the workaround?


----------



## HifiZine

nathan_h said:


> Then I really have a rookie question: How do I specify single channel output without the workaround?


As far as I know, you still need to use Soundflowerbed to direct REW output to specific HDMI channels.

I just tested it on Mavericks and it seems to work fine.

Great work John on the update!


----------



## nathan_h

HifiZine said:


> As far as I know, you still need to use Soundflowerbed to direct REW output to specific HDMI channels.
> 
> I just tested it on Mavericks and it seems to work fine.
> 
> Great work John on the update!


Thanks for confirming. That matches my experience as well.

Well, at least the first part, that just using the default and built in solution only gives one stereo output via hdmi on the mac right now. 

The second part of your post is very intriguing! I have so far been unsuccessful using Soundflower to select i individual channels. That option is greyed out for me.

Did you have to do something to enable it?


----------



## HifiZine

nathan_h said:


> I have so far been unsuccessful using Soundflower to select i individual channels. That option is greyed out for me.
> 
> Did you have to do something to enable it?


Hi, sorry, but I can't see what you're seeing. Screenshots might help. Basically, set REW to output to Soundflower 64ch and set Soundflower 64ch to direct audio to a specific channel of the HDMI device.


----------



## nathan_h

HifiZine said:


> Hi, sorry, but I can't see what you're seeing. Screenshots might help. Basically, set REW to output to Soundflower 64ch and set Soundflower 64ch to direct audio to a specific channel of the HDMI device.



I understand. Its like I'm dancing to describe architecture!

Are you choosing it on this screen?


----------



## HifiZine

Oh. No, that's not where  You should set SoundFlower to 48000 Hz there. Then you need to run the SoundFlowerBed app, and you can get this (by EmagSamurai, linked in first post)



















http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/69754-workaround-8-channel-hdmi-out-mac.html

In REW Preferences set 48 kHz and select SoundFlower 64ch as output device.

[Edit] to change the output channel, just change Channel 1 to HDMI [2], 3 etc


----------



## nathan_h

HifiZine said:


> Oh. No, that's not where  You should set SoundFlower to 48000 Hz there. Then you need to run the SoundFlowerBed app, and you can get this (by EmagSamurai, linked in first post)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/69754-workaround-8-channel-hdmi-out-mac.html
> 
> In REW Preferences set 48 kHz and select SoundFlower 64ch as output device.
> 
> [Edit] to change the output channel, just change Channel 1 to HDMI [2], 3 etc


Excellent, thanks for that guidance!


----------



## SoSleepy

I'm noticing what looks like a minor bug: if I save a measurement and then try to save it a second time, the "Save as" input box now lists the entire path rather than just the suggested filename by default. If I hit return, ie use the full path suggestion, then I get an error telling me that I am using illegal characters. I can get it work by manually removing the full path and just using the filename.


----------



## JohnM

Thanks, I've fixed that for the next beta.


----------



## loop7

Only a few days into learning REW but do I need to make any changes or additions if I'm getting sound through a UCA202 (10.9.5)?


----------



## Henry L

The basic routing solution seems to be working fine for me with Mac OS 10.6.8 (Snow Leopard) using LineIn and Soundflower applications with UMIK-1. (Thank you John/HifiZine!) 

Not tried any proper measurements with REW as yet. 

One observation is that I am hearing repeating clicks in generated sweeps / tones. 
This does not sound right, sounded a bit like sync slippage clicks. 
Is this normal / anything to worry about?


----------



## seedee701

hi

i must admit, i feel stupid, having to post here and report that i can't get REW to work after having made literally hundred+ measurements in the past...

i used different hardware that worked using John Reekie's workaround but now, no luck with any of them...

mac OS 10.6.8
interface: fireface800 (or motu traveler MK3 / M-audio transit)
REW 5 beta 20
line in 2.1.1

main problem:
i don't get input into REW from the mic/interface (left & right channel checked)


- i hear REW's output on my speakers
- (i still hear the mic-input on my speakers, will adress that later)
- can't get any input into REW

i see the mic input on the interface LED
i see the mic input on the fireface software mixer
i see the mic input in lineIn when clicking 'pass thru'

lineIn
IN from fireface, channel 1 used
OUT soundflower 2ch

system preferences
OUT fireface
IN soundflower 2cha

REW
default device for IN & OUT selected


help is greatly appreciated!!


----------



## seedee701

bett pic...


----------



## DanDan

You may not need to use any workaround any more. I would try a more recent Beta. In the more recent versions JohnPM has built a version of Java into REW. 
Don' t know if it solves all Mac issues, but it certainly does fix the UMIK 1 and presumably other 48K problems. 
DD


----------



## jupiterboy

Truly stumped this afternoon. I have used REW many times for many different purposes, but today I can’t get the mic signal to register. I’ve isolated and tested every component in the chain—the mic and preamp work fine into the MacBook mini jack. The Behringer USB card works fine for calibration. Either channel can be looped as a ref. input. When I hook it all up I get no mic signal. No idea.


----------



## seedee701

same here, can't get it going after hundreds of measurements.
tried 3 different interfaces, with and without workaround...
very frustrating. what are my options??


----------



## DanDan

We would need to do a detailed trouble shoot to find the individual reasons. 
But I suggest get rid of the obvious first. 
The workaround should not be necessary if you download the latest Beta version of REW. 
Simplify the setup. No Calibration of any kind. No Loopback Correction. 
At base, this is playback and recording. Achieve credible playback and credible input from the mic in the computer using simpler audio software. Then fire up REW and it should just work. 

DD


----------



## nicknace

Hello everyone. I need some help.

I hooked up my umik-1 and HDMI to macbook pro late 2013 and a HK 5.1 receiver per the following instructions:

minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-hdmi-on-mac

Everything went well, but every time I press measure I get the same curve, regardless of the HDMI number in Channel 1. I did set the Channel 2 to none. 

It also resets to sub only (0-200Hz) when I press measure. I set the Generator to Pink Noise Speaker cal before pressing Measure, but it just reverts to Sub Cal.


When I press the green test button on Speaker Cal in the Generator (Pink Noise) it outputs to the correct Left front channel, but when I press the Measurement button it sounds like it only outputs to the sub. What am I doing wrong?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Nick


----------



## ntran

Nick, did you check the following:

1. EQ and bass management on your receiver and make sure they are disabled? 

2. Went to Midi setup on your Mac and make sure the output set to Soundflower 62Ch

3. On your AVR, when measuring individual speaker, make sure they are set to large. Otherwise when you measure bass mgmt will kick in the sub

4. Remember to copy the first line of your UMIK-1 cal from minidsp and paste it to the cal file you havgot from CSL


----------



## nicknace

Thanks ntran! I will try all of the above, but I don't understand item 4. Is there some other thread where I can read about this? I just followed the mini-DSP instructions for downloading the calibration files and pointing to them in REW...

Oh, and I bought the UMIK-1 directly from miniDSP


----------



## nicknace

That worked. Thank you!!


----------



## ntran

If you order your mic from minidsp then you can ignore #4 above. It's for the UMIK-1 individually calibrated by Spectrum Labs. It is recommended for REW. Or you can send your mic to them for calibration for a fee of about $50.


----------



## bouvin

I have successfully used REW 5.11 on my Macbook Pro Retina (10.10.3) using HDMI, Soundflower, and a Cross-Spectrum calibrated UMIK-1 to measure my main sound system.

Emboldened by this experience, I installed REW on my home office Mac Mini (10.10.3) to likewise measure my Prodipe speaker setup. However, here I am stumped – I cannot get REW to emit any sound.

I have connected the Mac Mini using an optical cable to an Emotiva XDA-2, which drives the Prodipes. I have set Digital Out as the output in System Preferences - Sound, and verified that it works as expected using other programs. Yet, regardless of which output device I select in Output Device and Output, no sound is generated when I try to Check Levels, and if I try to make a measurement, I am told “Signal Generator audio output not available”, which is unsurprising, I suppose. I have tried both 48 and 44.1 kHz output.

I have repeated the above after having installed SoundFlower on this machine with the same results.

Any suggestions?


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## JohnM

Looks like M3DMixer is installed on the Mac Mini, I didn't think that worked on OS X after 10.4. Should probably remove that.


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## bouvin

Thank you!
Deleting the offending files from /Library/Java/Extensions did the trick.


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## BorisYu

Hi there!
Please let me know what to read here to get an answer to my stupid question ))
The question is: while measuring REW by itself i had obtained a strange result. "Measuring by itself" means that i put a Soundflower2ch as an Output and Input device in REW's Preferences. Thus the sweep goes from REW's output to REW's input directly. Then I start measurement and received following (find .mdat attached).
The surprise is (at least): (i) the ringing IR, (ii) the SPL drop after 17 kHz. MacbookAir + MacOS 10.10.3 serve as a platform.
We try to find an answer in our domestic forum discussion, but failed. Where is my mistake hidden?
Thanks in advance.
Boris, St.Petersburg, Russia


Ups!! Bug fixed, problem solved. Sorry.


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## mikaelb

Thanks for the pointers in this discussion. Unfortunately I've been prevented to go any further from the fact that Soundflower seems incompatible with OS X Mavericks. 
Since OS X Mavericks 10.9 was released I have never got Soundflower to work at all. 1.6.6b seem to be completely incompatible as far as I can tell. I've just now tried the 1.6.7 and 2.0b2 builds available from fellow Github users discussed in the Github issue discussion _Could someone please post a compliled binary for 1.6.7? _ (Issue #24) and none of the binaries that users have been kind enough to compile does work for me. 

I've tried on different MacBook Pros, new installations, new disks and with new audio interfaces present, with 1.6.6b for years, but the results are always that if I send output from any source to soundflower I can't get it routed further to anywhere. The same with these new builds.

At the moment I have the 2.0b2 from above installed, which is recognized by SoundlfowerBed from 1.6.6b (No-one seems to have been able to compile that so far), but I can't do anything with it. Any source routed to soundflower seem to end there. On 10.6 Soundflower was very easy to use.

I can't move past this issue, so REW seems to be out of my reach as does FuzzMeasure as the current version 4 requires Yosemite, so for my home studio at least that's not working out. I bought the Dayton EMM6, but it doesn't seem I will be able to use it for any analysis with OS X.

I did manage to get sound into REW 5.1.13 without soundflower with my RME Babyface, but I got the same error messages as have been discussed both here and elsewhere likely due to the multiple inputs this audio interface has.

I'm open for suggestions if anyone has them. Thank you


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## nicknace

Same here. If you find a way to fix Soundflower to work with Mavericks please post it and I will try it with El Capitan.


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## bouvin

Just a data point – I have used SoundFlower without any issues on 10.10. I have yet to test it under 10.11, though. I'm not aware of any special steps I took regarding installation.


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## mikaelb

Thank you for your response, _Bouvin_. That's interesting. What specific version did you use and from what source? Did you at all use LineIn or something else or was it straightforward to route audio from the input of your audio interface to soundflower?

I'll try this on an external Yosemite installation, as I want to try the FuzzMeasure demo anyway. I've only heard about REW before, but for regular use I might be interested in that. I really would like REW to work though. I've been needing Soundflower for other applications for a very long time, so to get it to work would be very welcome.


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## JohnM

There is an alternative to soundflower by setting up an aggregate device, see this AVS post.


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## bouvin

I used Soundflower version 1.6.6b. I have just attempted installing it on 10.11, and can report that it apparently does not work anymore.


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## bouvin

Thanks, JohnM!

That works nicely, better than SoundFlower in fact, as I don't get glitches anymore.


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## mikaelb

JohnM:


> There is an alternative to soundflower by setting up an aggregate device, see this AVS post
> 
> Read more: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...itations-javasound-os-x-17.html#ixzz3oxDKPurw


Thanks for the tip. But it would seem that this only is relevant for HDMI connections. When I attempt to make an aggregate and add my Babyface all I see are all the same 12 channels in as when I'm using it on its own.


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