# Are there any designs with the raal ribbon tweeter?



## supermoore1025 (Jan 1, 2010)

I was wondering because I heard this tweeter really makes the speakers in the room disappear.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

supermoore1025 said:


> I was wondering because I heard this tweeter really makes the speakers in the room disappear.


While the company says 2800khz I think crossing higher is best with these tweeters. 

I would aim for 3khz L-R 4 or higher on the crossover, but it certainly offers incredible off axis response


I would recommend a 3-way design with that particular tweeter.


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## Dave Upton (Aug 4, 2009)

http://www.stonessoundstudio.com.au/stone/Raal/raal_speaker-kits.htm is the only one I found.


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## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

I'm surprised that there aren't more kits with it.. Certainly seems like there is a lot of discussion out there about RAAL ribbons. Some people seem to love them, others seem to say 'I hate all ribbon tweeters".

Maybe it's very much a niche market.

I've seen some DIY projects with Boehlender Graebener tweeters - but I'm guessing it falls into the same narrow market.


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## HTNut42 (Jul 4, 2010)

Alot of DIY'ers don't like to mess with ribbons because of they are a "fragile" tweet from what I have heard. This can be worked around in the crossover design, but it seems to be a pain. I hope I don't get in trouble for sending you to another forum, but I know a few of the guys over at the Parts Express Tech Talk forum have had some experience with ribbons, and a few of them have played with RAAL ribbons too. One guy went as far as to start a thread where he proclaimed they were the best tweeter ever made lol.


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## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

HTNut42 said:


> Alot of DIY'ers don't like to mess with ribbons because of they are a "fragile" tweet from what I have heard. This can be worked around in the crossover design, but it seems to be a pain. I hope I don't get in trouble for sending you to another forum, but I know a few of the guys over at the Parts Express Tech Talk forum have had some experience with ribbons, and a few of them have played with RAAL ribbons too. One guy went as far as to start a thread where he proclaimed they were the best tweeter ever made lol.


I've spent some time over there... that's a very good forum - very big on DIY speaker design and building.

It seems like everyone has a tweeter that they are convinced is the best ever.. :T Although, maybe they are very very good - if you get the crossover right.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

HTNut42 said:


> Alot of DIY'ers don't like to mess with ribbons because of they are a "fragile" tweet from what I have heard. This can be worked around in the crossover design, but it seems to be a pain. I hope I don't get in trouble for sending you to another forum, but I know a few of the guys over at the Parts Express Tech Talk forum have had some experience with ribbons, and a few of them have played with RAAL ribbons too. One guy went as far as to start a thread where he proclaimed they were the best tweeter ever made lol.


The two main issues with ribbons is

- Rising response
- inability to play low.

Nothing too difficult to counteract unless you're designing without measurement gear or something ridiculous like that. They're best used in 3-ways or crossed to high end drivers around 4-5khz is all. Dennis Murphy loves ribbons so of course all the better Salk designs use them. 

Regarding ribbons vs domes, here's some (GENERAL) observations people have made

Domes may have more sibilance
Domes can play lower and thus match well with many drivers especially in 2-way designs
Domes have equal dispersion in all directions
Many soft domes have a natural rolloff which blends decently for a realistic room response

Ribbons require a bit more crossover correction
Ribbons are more efficient and can play a bit louder
Ribbons have limited vertical dispersion but excellent horizontal dispersion
Ribbons can be more expensive

Both domes and ribbons can play perfectly up to 20khz depending on the material used (softer domes will start to rolloff around 15khz)

My opinion is that if you've got the money to be spending on high end drivers like a RAAL ribbon, you better own something like a DEQX to really tweak it properly and do it justice if you're not an expert crossover designer.


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## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

GranteedEV said:


> My opinion is that if you've got the money to be spending on high end drivers like a RAAL ribbon, you better own something like a DEQX to really tweak it properly and do it justice if you're not an expert crossover designer.


Ouuuch! I didn't realize that the RAAL ribbons go for $300-650.

I know I'm getting OT, and I'm sure that the RAAL ribbons have their advantages, but I get a little turned off when I start seeing magic buzz words for features:
- Special FLATFOIL® pure Aluminium ribbon
- Special SYMMLEAD® low inductance signal path
- Special EQUAFIELD® NdFeB magnetic structure
- Special “non-wave-guide” INOX front plate


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Yeah, in my opinion the crossover first thing to consider, before you try to buy the most exotic driver and plop it in a box. 

If you've got the money to invest in DIY speakers, invest in measurement gear, power tools, active crossovers, active amplifiers, theory-related books, and THEN worry about getting the best drivers. Especially since something like an LCY, Hi-Vi, or Fountek Ribbon can still introduce you to the "dissapearing" sound without breaking the bank and give you 85-95% of the performance if properly implemented. AFAIK the reason the RAALs in particular dissapear is because their off axis response mimics their on-axis response, giving you a very consistent "omnidirectional" sound.

I would really recommend copying the aformentioned Salk approach to ribbons in a 3-way. That is, the ribbon crossed around 4khz with a high power, but small 3 inch midrange, combined with a larger 10-15" acoustic elegance woofer crossed around 300-400hz.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

The HiFi RTI tweeters offer similar performance as the RAAL at a fraction of the cost, but be warned the QA is not very good on their production line. They yield about a 33 percent good rate. This is why I got 7 of them instead of 2. You need to remove the faceplate, but that is very simple.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> This is why I got 7 of them instead of 2.


Did you end up with any extra "good ones"?  :whistling: :innocent::bigsmile:


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

GranteedEV said:


> Did you end up with any extra "good ones"?  :whistling: :innocent::bigsmile:


I haven't tested them yet honestly. I got them as a lot from a guy who ordered them direct from the factory.


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