# Onkyo AVR vs HTiab and Polk Speakers



## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi and happy day to you all! :wave:

I've been going back and forth between a component A/V receiver like the OnkyoSR606, which is a 7.1 channel, along with these 5.1 polk speakers...I don’t think I need the 7.1 speakers for my little room. (I may be sorry,but can not go broke)

I've been told to spend a little more than the THiab units for something like the OnkyoSR606, along with these polk speakers...

2)Polk Audio PLK M10 2-way bookshelf, 89db
2)PLK M20 (amp power recom,20-150w) or M50 Floor monitor,
1)PLK Center CS10,and 
1)PSW Sub 10" (8-ohm all nominal impedance)

I thought that the lower ohms, the clearer, brighter sound…All I've seen are mostly 8-ohms? So the 4. and 6 are higher quality?

HTiab is more pocketbook friendly than the component setup, I do realize I'd have to spend upwards of $2,000 for a "Killer" sound system, but I just don't have, nor ever will have that kind of money.

What to do? Does anyone have any above mentioned Polk speakers,so can you recommend something cheaper but same quality...and the same with the A/V receiver....should I stay the course with Onkyo? Or just hang with a HTiab? (yamaha,panasonic,pioneer)

My set up will be as follows...

Samsung 46" A750 .....I have now,
TimeWarner HD-DVR Box....I have now,
Sony BluRay 350.....I will get soon,
and whatever receiver/speakers I end up with. 

My room is only a 12' x 9'. The TV will be mounted on the wall, I only have one in-wall CL2 Rated HDMI cord from cable box to TV. Would I need any additional cables? 

or just plug the BlueRay, TV, and Cable box into the receiver? 

Because of the lack of money, I was going to settle on a Sony THiab, only to be told to stay away from Sony,Yamaha, and Panasonic, and even Bose by numerous people.. Well, there goes my small budget thinking theory right out the door.



Bottom Line, I want to hang the TV on the wall, and I have only one HDMI cable waiting for it. I'd hate to hang it only to have to remove to hook up another cable. I'm still looking at AVR's comparably to HTiab units. 

I'm thinking this...
1 HDMI Time-WarnerHD-DVR Cable box to Receiver,
1 HDMI Blue ray to Receiver,
1 HDMI)Receiver to TV (TV's hdmi out to receiver hdmi IN) 
....And no optical from tV to receiver. 




Thank you for you PATIENCE! I am on my :wits-end:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: Onkyo AVR vs HTiab*

First of all ...Welcome to the forum :wave:



bozobytes said:


> I've been going back and forth between a component A/V receiver like the OnkyoSR606, which is a 7.1 channel, along with these 5.1 polk speakers...I don’t think I need the 7.1 speakers for my little room. (I may be sorry,but can not go broke)


Well, the problem with most HTIB is their frequency response 120Hz-20KHz (THX recommends to set the crossover @ 80Hz to avoid the subwoofer localization, which you can't if your speaker can go down to only 120Hz); another disadvantage is, if you want to upgrade in some cases you need to change everything because the speakers can't be connected to the module that came with the HTIB (Sony and Bose for example) ...not all HTIB are bad, take a look at this  Onkyo 5100  or  Onkyo 6100  ...if you decide to go with a HTIB, I recommend this, you can upgrade the speakers anytime, and AVR are capable of decoding HD audio (necesary if you'll get the BR player).



> ...the OnkyoSR606, along with these polk speakers...
> 
> 2)Polk Audio PLK M10 2-way bookshelf, 89db
> 
> I thought that the lower ohms, the clearer, brighter sound…All I've seen are mostly 8-ohms? So the 4. and 6 are higher quality?


Onkyo 606 is included on the 6100 system, and Onkyo 605 on the 5100.

I own the Polk M10 ...I think they're good, frequency response is 65Hz-20KHz; I stopped using them because I upgraded all speakers to JBL 3 ways ...they can be up for sale :bigsmile:

The problem with 4ohms or 6ohms speakers is that some AVR's are unstable with that load ...most are okay with 8 ohms.



> HTiab is more pocketbook friendly than the component setup, I do realize I'd have to spend upwards of $2,000 for a "Killer" sound system, but I just don't have, nor ever will have that kind of money.


Not necesarelly, How much money you have to get your system???



> . Would I need any additional cables?
> 
> or just plug the BlueRay, TV, and Cable box into the receiver?


You'll need more cables, if you connect through the AVR you'll need to turn it on all the time to watch anything on the TV ...in your case a recommend a HDMI splitter, you'll be able to decide when to use the AVR or not. 



> I'm thinking this...
> 1 HDMI Time-WarnerHD-DVR Cable box to Receiver,
> 1 HDMI Blue ray to Receiver,
> 1 HDMI)Receiver to TV (TV's hdmi out to receiver hdmi IN)
> ....And no optical from tV to receiver.


Sounds good ...just remember that you'll need to turn on your AVR always to watch anything.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Duplicate threads combined and moved to System Recommendations... :T


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If you have the budget, skip the HTIB. Components and good speakers are SOOOOO much better and give you a ton more flexibility later. If you need to cut, go 5.1 for now and add later.

Bryan


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## tenzip (May 4, 2007)

bozobytes said:


> Hi and happy day to you all! :wave:
> 
> I thought that the lower ohms, the clearer, brighter sound…All I've seen are mostly 8-ohms? So the 4. and 6 are higher quality?


Hi and welcome to the Shack!

The speaker impedance has zero effect on the sound quality. As David said, some AVRs will have difficulty driving the 4 or 6 ohm speakers. Reading the manual and specifications will tell you.

You don't have to spend all the money at once. You can buy a decent AVR, and 5 speakers that would normally all be considered surrounds plus a small subwoofer, and use them until you can save enough to upgrade the mains and/or center. Or the subwoofer. Or variations on that theme.

The Onkyo systems are, from what I hear, decent systems that will give good service, and have most all the bells and whistles you might want now. When your disease becomes more advanced, then you'll start looking for specific items that those systems might not have. But until then, you'll just enjoy it!


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Ok, I'm going to ask this...
I'm thinking about the (90 watts per channel) Onkyo TX-RX606, (can not afford the 706) as my AVReceiver. Should I be looking for a specific speaker watt range to use with this AVR? For bookshelf speakers,what should be the lowest to highest response ratio on a good sounding speaker?

The Polk RM10 5.1 System - or what's a better system in the $300-$400 range? It's hard not knowing if I'm going to hang on the wall, or use as floors.

Overall Frequency
Response 30Hz - 24kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 35Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 20kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Minimum Impedance 8 ohms
Power Handling (continuous) 65 w
Power Handling (peak) 130 w
Efficiency 89 dB
________________________________________________

dumb question...Are satellite speakers BETTER than non-satellite speakers?
And finally, if I get a three way speaker,do I really need the subwoofer?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Take a look at this. It's a little more but is a great buy for the money and you'll have no problem driving it very well with the 90 WPC.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/performance1.html

Bryan


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Hi Bpape,

Thanks! More questions abound...

I am awaiting a reply from my old bandmate,banjo player who has a recording studio in Santa Fe,NM. I thought since he produces his own Cd's and does professional recordings as a bidness, he would have some ideas on studio monitors manufacturers that would sound good for a home theater sound. Like JBL, etc. I checked out the GIK site, very cool! I used to play drums and still have my vintage 1973 Rodgers Drum kit that I just can't part with. Although I do like the DrumWorks line, there is something about the old Ludwig,Rogers,Slingerland line, but who needs those when they have drum sampling machines?


So as a designer of better sounding acoustics, are you sold on the HSU speaker package you sent me? Can they easily mounted on the walls?

These are the spec for the MIRAGE Nanostat 5.1 Speaker system...Have you heard of them before?


* includes 5 satellites and 1 subwoofer
* Omnipolar technology creates a larger, more realistic soundstage
* sensitivity: 87 dB
* frequency response: 30-20,000 Hz (±3dB)
* warranty: 5 years speakers, 1 year subwoofer The Center is sold separately.

If I use the one SUB, two fronts, two surrounds,where could I place the fifth speaker? Either side in the middle, or would that make the sound unbalanced?? 

I checked out those Mirage,and the center speaker is $220.00, and these are the dimensions...
# Depth: 9.9 inches
# Height: 5.2 inches
# Width: 4.6 inches
# Weight: 3.3 pounds

Correct me if I'm wrong, maybe they mean the depth, but are these telling me the width is only 4.6" across? If so, is this very small center speaker worth the $220.00 they are asking? Besides, I notice you have Polk Audio Speakers...do you think the Mirage are better?

CENTER SPEAKER
Product Features
* frequency response 100-20,000 Hz (±3dB)
* Omnipolar technology creates a larger, more realistic soundstage
* 3/4" titanium dome tweeter, 3" Titanium Deposite Hybrid polypropylene cone woofer
* sensitivity 91 dB
* handles up to 100 watts

Technical Details
* Brand Name: Mirage
* Model: CC
* speaker_type: Center channel speaker
* Speaker Amplification Type: Passive
* speakers_maximum_output_power: 100 Watts
* speakers_response_bandwidth: 100 - 20000 Hz
* Speaker Connectivity: Wired

Thanks again.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I've not heard those particular Mirages but in general, I'm not personally a fan of the Mirage sound. The HSU IMO are a great bang for the buck.

With the HSU, you get 2 surrounds, 2 mains, 1 center, and the sub. Should be no problem mounting them on the wall though I don't know what mounts they come with stock, if any.

Bryan


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bozobytes said:


> For bookshelf speakers,what should be the lowest to highest response ratio on a good sounding speaker?


In my opinion, you need speakers that can go down to at least 65Hz or lower ... if you follow the THX suggested crossover to sub you'll use 80Hz. Also, check the sensitivity of the speaker 87db is acceptable, but higher is better 89db, 91db or more ...they're more eficient.



> The Polk RM10 5.1 System - or what's a better system in the $300-$400 range? It's hard not knowing if I'm going to hang on the wall, or use as floors.


I agree with Bryan, HSU is a better system ... if you want to stay with Polk get the M10 instead of the small speakers. The overall frequency response you posted is for the whole system; the FR for the speakers is 120HZ-20KHz, this means setting the crossover at that frequency ...so you risk localization of the sub.



> dumb question...Are satellite speakers BETTER than non-satellite speakers?
> And finally, if I get a three way speaker,do I really need the subwoofer?


To me, the only dumb questions is the one you don't ask :yes:

Any speaker can be used as satellite (surround) ...there's a lot of brands, models, frequency response, etc. ...is hard to tell which one is better because every room is different, every setting, etc.

Even if you get a 3 way speaker you'll still need a subwoofer ...most speaker (specially floorstanders) can go down to only 30Hz; but a good sub can go down lower than that to maybe 15Hz-20Hz.

You can use floortanders and don't use a sub ...but you'll miss a lot of the HT experience...:yes:


Do you still need to buy an AVR??? ...or just the speakers??? .....if you do need the AVR, I suggest to stay with an Onkyo system (5100 or 6100) it has all you need, and you can upgrade the speakers little by little .......


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Yes - you need a sub. This is not only for LFE and impact, but with speakers in the price range you're looking in, they simply don't have any bottom end. IMO, you'll be lucky to be able to use the THX 80Hz xover point. You'll probably have to use the 120Hz. Yes - you may localize a little bit but keeping the sub up front with the mains and out of a corner will help minimize that.

Bryan


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Salvasol,
How close are the 5100 and 6100 Onkyo's to a Home Theater in a box? I've been told all along to stay away from these systems because the speakers are less than desirable. So when I do buy the AVR and the speakers,I would like better than average and maybe not upgrade for a long while. That's why I was thinking abouth the Onky 606,now if there is someone who can tell me I would be more happier with the 5100 or 6100 than the 606,then I may heed their advice.

I don't have any friends with a Home Theater surround setup close by for me to go check it out myself, and I don't want to buy anything online,or at a store without listening them first, so this make s finding a system a daunting task. From the HTiab I've heard at the local stores,they sound tinty and not a whole lot of life coming out from them. Thanks!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Just understand that the HSU is direct from the manufacturer only. They do, however, have a 30 day money back guarantee (less shipping costs). 

Bryan


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bozobytes said:


> How close are the 5100 and 6100 Onkyo's to a Home Theater in a box? I've been told all along to stay away from these systems because the speakers are less than desirable.


Onkyo advertise the 5100 and 6100 as a HTIB (a complete system in one box) ...the reason that I always recommend buying this system if you decide to go with an HTIB is because compared to others this has a lot more advantages (a real AVR that you don't have to change to upgrade speakers and each individual speakers has a good frequency response 65Hz to 20KHz, when most HTIB speakers go from 120Hz or 130Hz)....

Here is a side by side  comparison 




> ...now if there is someone who can tell me I would be more happier with the 5100 or 6100 than the 606,then I may heed their advice.


Is hard to say if you'll be happy with either because everybody has different taste, every room is different ...you can use the same system in two separates room and they will sound different :yes:

I remember my first system (Infinity TSS 750) and I like it, but after I started learning more in this hobby I started upgrading everything (I'm on my third set of speakers in less than two years:whistling ...when upgraditis gets you ... it gets you :bigsmile: 



> From the HTiab I've heard at the local stores,they sound tinty and not a whole lot of life coming out from them.


The best place to audition speakers is at home ....like Bryan said: there's some companies that allow you to audition the speakers at home, and if you don't like them ...just send them back (in some cases you'll need to pay the shipping).

You can also start with just the receiver and front speakers and add the rest later ...What is your budget again??? :hide:


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