# Which Sub??



## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

Polk PSW-110 just blew the amp. Looking for new sub. My room size is 20 by 15 with 12 foot ceilings. I currently have a set of Polk Monitor 60s, Polk CS1 center and a pair of Polk OWM3s for surround. They are driven by an Onkyo TX-SR604. Budget around $350.00. I am currently looking at a BIC F-12, a BIC PL-200 and a JBL ES250P. Has anyone had any experience with these subs.Any recommendations would by great. Thank.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I think that for $350 I'd probably go with an HSU STF-2. Don't know anything about that JBL but it's got a pretty good spec sheet for a $199 sub. If you bump your budget to $400 ish a pair of the ES250P or pair of F-12 might be the way to go for that size room.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi, thats a rather big space to fill with any of those subs. Is there any possibility to up your budget to $500?


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

I was leaning towards the BIC PL-200. It is a 12 inch sub with a 1000 watt peak and a 250 watt continuos power supply. Does anyone have any personal experiences with this sub? Would like to keep budget around $350.00.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Those are very unrealistic numbers on the BIC but in that price range its tough to find anything better. I agree the HSU STF2 would be my choice.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree with Tony, and nova on the HSU. I have experience with jbl subs, and while they do OK. They only do OK. (Extension is the biggest prob for me). I also have dealt with SVS, and I understand HSU is similar to work with. I would also add that my space is 16x24,(sunken 12") attached to a kitchen with the same dimensions, with an 11 foot vaulted ceiling in the middle. The kitchen/ dining opens into a 23x14 foyer/ workspace. What I'm saying is I understand pressurizing a large space, and if you could in any way, increase your budget. (Save a while even), you would be well served to do so.


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion. Where would be the best to purchase one?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Both SVS and HSU sell on line only. This reduces the cost to you in the end as there are no store fronts to pay for on top of the cost of building.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Hsu has a special right now for 329. I would call them and describe your situation and see what they think. It's gonna be hard to fill that space with any ten incher, but it's gonna be more competent, and capable than the Polk. (IMO)


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Tony is right. And that's why (IMO) you'll always get much more for your money. ID (Internet direct) companies like SVS and HSU also have great return policies. (In the unlikely event your not satisfied). What ratio are you for music/movies?
Will


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

60 music/40 movies


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## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

I would consider the dayton sub1200 or sub1500. Read Jim Wilsons review on the Sub1200. I have listened to one and it sounds pretty good for the price. Every bit as good as the JBL ES250( I have also herd).


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## Donald Duck (Feb 12, 2014)

Have you considered a used sub? I bought a Hsu VTF3-MK3 from an offering on Craigslist for $400. I love the way it sounds and it fills my room (20X30 with 8ft ceilings).


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## orion (Sep 18, 2009)

What are your expectations? For that budget with that much space I know I would not be happy. I second the recommendation to save up for how ever long it takes to buy a two higher end subs. It would be cheaper in the long run to do what you will be happy with the first time. Imho


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

orion said:


> What are your expectations? For that budget with that much space I know I would not be happy. I second the recommendation to save up for how ever long it takes to buy a two higher end subs. It would be cheaper in the long run to do what you will be happy with the first time. Imho[/QUOTE
> 
> I agree I want dual subs and not of the one I have.


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

Just received my BIC PL-200. I have a question---Should I set the phase switch to 0 or 180?? I am running cross-over thru the receiver and it is set at 80. I assume that if the receiver is taking care of the cross-over then the cross -over settings on the back of the sub are eliminated??


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Haha! Never assume. Just kidding. If you're using the crossover in your rcvr, set the one on your sub to off, or it's highest position. For example my sub has a disable switch, but if not I would set the knob to 120hz. The sub will then only see the 80hz roll off from the rcvr. It basically works out the same. I think that's how most would do it. Congrats on the new sub!
Will


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Also start at 180 degrees, and listen closely to some music with solid low end, and toggle back and forth to see which has the best response. You can also use test tones and an spl meter. REW is also invaluable, but old school can still work if you don't have the means to use REW. 
Will


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

The phase switch has 2 settings 0 and 180???


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

...I meant start at zero degrees?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

0 and 180 degrees refers to the "phase" at which it fires in relation to your main drivers. Sometimes due to placement, certain frequencies will accentuate, or cancel each other out. That translates to peaks, and valleys in the response that you hear as bloated boomy bass, or bass that's just not there. So if you change the phase of the subs output, it can balance this effect. Walk around the room while some bass heavy music is playing, and listen closely to how it changes in different areas of the room. REW can plot this out very quickly, so you can make changes and see the results right away. ...much faster than an spl meter, and graph paper. Ugh...


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks. This sub is far and away better than the Polk PSW-110 that I had. I have some questions about the cross-overs for my Polk Monitor 60s that are my mains and my Polk CS1 center. The Onkyo I have is a TX-SR604. It does not allow you to set speakers to large or small. It want you to set cross-over. I have the mains at 100 and center at 80. Need advice and feedback. Thanks, Jim


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Id have to look at polks specs for them, but a good place to start is set all to 80hz. This is what THX recommends, and many theater buffs use. Another way is to set the crossover about 20hz over the spec'd freq response. (I don't have the numbers handy. Anybody?) if you use 80hz, it lets the sub do most of the work so your rcvr won't have to. It takes a lot to push solid bass!


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## orion (Sep 18, 2009)

willis7469 said:


> ...I meant start at zero degrees?de01


OK OK OK we are getting ours terms mixed up here. Phase is entirely different than the crossover frequency. Use your receivers crossover of 80 hertz and set the crossover on the sub to the highest or disable it. Set the phase to 0 degrees. and see how it sounds and toggle it to 180 degrees and see how it sounds.


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

Roger that. I am needing advice on crossover settings for mains and center??


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Glad u like your sub! I learned a long time ago, that (many) speaker makers seem to makes subs as an afterthought. It's too bad really, cause a great sub can elevate a system to a new level in many ways, and many "sub" makers can do it in the same form factor. So why not speaker makers? Margins? WAF? Market pressure? Who knows...


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

orion said:


> OK OK OK we are getting ours terms mixed up here. Phase is entirely different than the crossover frequency. Use your receivers crossover of 80 hertz and set the crossover on the sub to the highest or disable it. Set the phase to 0 degrees. and see how it sounds and toggle it to 180 degrees and see how it sounds.


Yes exactly.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Set all channels to 80 hz as a start. Yes phase to "0" and test.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Hope I'm making sense! ...it's clear in my mind!!! Lol


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

The main reasons for 80 hz I think are, when your rcvr has to push lower frequencies, it presents a much larger load. 2nd, I think that it creates a better tonal balance around the room, that should help with cohesion as sounds move around the room. ...that's a guess.


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## Cocahoe (Feb 10, 2014)

Thanks. So mains and center and sub would all be set at 80???


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Yes. (Surrounds too unless they're too small) The crossover set at 80 will direct all material below that to the sub.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Cocahoe said:


> Any recommendations would by great. Thank.


How much subwoofer sound are you "REALLY" wanting? How much disappointment are you willing to accept?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Cocahoe said:


> Thanks. So mains and center and sub would all be set at 80???


So, I assume things must be good? ...thread had been quiet.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Cocahoe said:


> Thanks. So mains and center and sub would all be set at 80???


The rule of thumb is, all speakers set to small.

All speaker crossovers set to 80Hz

LFE in the AVR main subwoofer menu set to 120Hz.

LPF for LFE on the back of the subwoofer set to 120Hz.


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