# What's the next step for theaters?



## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

Will we be seeing more and more "non-thrilling" movies getting released straight to video in the near future? Most of my typical middle-class friends who don't care much about theatrics now have large HDTVs and at the very least a HTIB system, and things are cheap enough at this point that I just got a decent projector (PLUS U5-732) used for $300 shipped to supplement the blossoming audio portion of my system, which was also bought on the cheap.

Are theaters really going to be able to sell non-action movies like they used to in the near future? I have no doubt that IMAX specials such as Avatar will continue their reign without a hitch, maybe even devoloping into 3-sided screens for full-blown immersion into the movie, but who wants to spend the kind of money necesarry for the theater experience just to watch something that doesn't give "the experience" any better than what they can achieve at home? Watching a thriller on IMAX is like going to an amusement park and is definitely worth the money to be blown away like that, but any more of this consumer-based theater building, and dedicated movie theaters really won't have much of anything to offer anymore in the way of non-action based films. My system isn't even finished, yet I still haven't seen any movie aside from Avatar in the theater for like 2 years. Am I alone on this?


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## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

No you are not alone before watching Avatar the last movie I watched in a theater was The Matrix.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

My wife and I go to a movie only about once a year just for a change and always walk out wondering why we went as its not ever as good as the home experience.
That said many youth dont have that home theater experience so they are the ones that keep theaters in business.


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## RLouis (Jan 20, 2010)

IMAX is the only theater worth going to. We have four in the Washington DC area but three are Smithsonian theaters which generally don't show "Hollywood" movies. Unfortunately none are IMAX Dome theaters either. I'll probably go see Avatar 3D in a theater, but only because it's 3D. Theaters are on the same road as libraries and music stores.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

There are some movies that MUST be seen on a big screen to be fully appreciated -- Avatar being the latest example.

However, there is something about a group viewing that helps some movies -- comedies especially. For example, I don't think I'd have thought The Hangover was as funny had I seen at home vs the theater. Horror movies are another genre that I think is enhanced by a group setting. 

However, for your typical drama, I don't get anything extra by being a group setting.

All that being said, this group "enhancement" is often outweighed by the lack of courtesy that seems to becoming more and more prevalent. Man that makes me sound like an old codger. Anyway, cell phones that aren't turned off, talking in the movie, talking ABOUT the movie in the movie, etc can sometimes just ruin the whole experience.


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

After watching those action movies on a descent setup at home you realize just how poor the imaging (, audio as a whole!) is in the theater. Yeah it's louder, but that's not the thing you care about most you know just what good speakers are capable of. Many times ambient or surround noise is just an amorphous blob behind your head giving you no idea of the directionality of the sound.

I'm sure you all have noticed what speaker set-ups look like in theaters (the last one I was in one, I counted 13 speakers.) Does anyone know what kind of "receiver" is used to distribute sound to these numerous speakers in theaters? And if so, why do you suppose it does such a poor job?


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

Some valid points here ^^^

I'm in the process of a major system overhaul, and even with ONLY two Klipsch RF-5s and a Velodyne SPL1200 (no center, surrounds because they were dragging behind) it still sounds significantly better than any of my local theaters. It'll be some serious doing to achieve what I saw at IMAX (I felt a blast of wind when the ship blew up at the end of Avatar, which I haven't felt before or since, though to be fair I was in the front row and presumeably eating a subwoofer sandwhich whenever something blew up ) but that theater is an hour away and only worth the drive for a masterpiece of audio/visual, which, as mentioned in the opening post, warrants the straight-to-video release of movies that don't blow you away.

There certainly still is the group effect with comedies and whatnot where your friends increase humor exponentially, but I gotta ask- If the theater at home is better, and you can actually drink beer and serve wings and stuff, what's to stop you from just having friends over? , play your cards right while making the calls and you'll never have to pay for movie food again 


One thing I will say could potentially be awesome, is that the movie business is driven by the free market, and they know that we'll only pay big bucks for an all-out experience to a greater and greater extent every year.. I can't wait to see what developes! Rotary subs, perfect 3D screens that take up the entire front 180 degrees of the theater to literally put you in the movie everywhere you look (imagine "We Were Soldiers" with the fight happening all around you. You'll miss some stuff in the movie depending where you're looking, but that's kinda the point- It's incredibly realistic that way, especially in the chaos of war.) I would also love to see effects coming from the seats, floor, and ceiling as well. IE: Something blows up to your left, and the seat subtly jerks to the right while a blast fan sends a "shockwave" at you, along with the smell of spent powder and small particles of debree. If there's a thunderstorm, they could leak small amounts of ozone into the room to make it smell legitimate, and if it's foggy, send some fog in the room with very subtle overhead lights used to enhance the white glowing (though that might be an issue with projectors..) If the camera follows someone over the edge of a cliff, tilts the seats forward to make the falling sensation believable, and if you're in an accelerating car/plane/whatever, tilt the seats backwards and send increasingly stronger vibrations to them to simulate speed. If the environment is jungle, waft in some warm, humid air, and if the environment is snowy, waft in the cold, icy air, etc., etc., etc.. I could go on for days!

Jeez I think I'm salivating haha, time to take some measurements in the ol' theater room downstairs :daydream::daydream::daydream: Seriously though, I would happily spend $30-$40 for a movie experience if they can pull off what I described in a believable fashion. I'm not talking about a Disneyworld thrill ride with 3D and effects being used just to shock people, I want total, seamless immersion into the movie- essentially just a much more extreme version of Avatar, which used the 3D solely to put you _inside_ the movie. It's such a perfect concept, and I find it amazing that Avatar was the first to use 3D correctly- I really hope the empire it built brings even better stuff to the show sometime soon.

Or maybe I'm just a dreamer


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Toby Jack said:


> Does anyone know what kind of "receiver" is used to distribute sound to these numerous speakers in theaters? And if so, why do you suppose it does such a poor job?


They simply use a special processor in most theaters. It has card slots that they can add different decoders to correspond to the different formats available like DTS or THX. The processors have up to 9 independent channels with delay adjustments for each channel that then send each signal to multiple amps that then powers the speakers. 
Where you say the quality is bad is simply that the theater chains dont recalibrate these setups often (some only do it once during initial installation) and the levels vary form movie to movie and sometimes the operators will mess with these settings witch over time will just get worse and worse.
The reason the picture quality can be so bad is simply use and ware on the film, If you go within a week of opening day the film will be much more vibrant and sharp but again most theaters run the reels every night several times and sometimes across several screens at the same time (quite impressive to see actually).


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> They simply use a special processor in most theaters. It has card slots that they can add different decoders to correspond to the different formats available like DTS or THX. The processors have up to 9 independent channels with delay adjustments for each channel that then send each signal to multiple amps that then powers the speakers.
> Where you say the quality is bad is simply that the theater chains dont recalibrate these setups often (some only do it once during initial installation) and the levels vary form movie to movie and sometimes the operators will mess with these settings witch over time will just get worse and worse.
> The reason the picture quality can be so bad is simply use and ware on the film, If you go within a week of opening day the film will be much more vibrant and sharp but again most theaters run the reels every night several times and sometimes across several screens at the same time (quite impressive to see actually).


I figured they would have something with some serious beef to power all those speakers. I would love to watch a movie on a correctly-calibrated system. I feel like there is a lot of potential there.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm with you. We treated two of our grandsons and their parents to "UP!" in 3D. It was a cheaper matinee and we bought limited snacks. Still the bill was over $80! I've since bought the BD and actually enjoyed the 2D at home more.

Last night my wife and I watched "Whip It" (a fun little film) in blu ray on our 120" screen in our dedicated HT. I was able to set the volume just where we like it. We enjoyed a nice glass of wine and some biscotti. The cost was far less than one medium drink and one medium popcorn at the local theater. PQ and AQ was superior to any theater in town.

There's just no incentive, except for the spectaculars, to go to the local movie house anymore.


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## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

The next step for theaters is 3D sound in the form of IOSONO® spatial sound technology. 

http://www.iosono-sound.com/products-and-services/cinemas/

I went to hear a demo at Todd-AO Burbank stage 2 and it was the most exhilarating dispersive audio experience I have had since going to Disney Worlds haunted mansion. The were able to place sonic images anywhere in space they chose, and they could do it over a wide variety of seats as well. 

3D images combined with this 3D audio technology will keep the professional movie theater a bit ahead of home theater for quite sometime, or at least until somebody can figure out how to integrate this system into home theater proportions, and more cost effective as well(this system is not cheap by any standards).

http://www.iosono-sound.com/references/installations/


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 18, 2006)

I saw a joke once many, many years ago that said "by the time you can afford Hi-Fi, you can no longer hear it". Well, I've reached that stage at 75.

Somehow, the term "IOSONO® spatial sound technology" sounds like something that I am going to have to live without. Now, if they come up with something where I can connect a digital cable direct to my brain, I think they'll have something I can use.


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

Deane Johnson said:


> I saw a joke once many, many years ago that said "by the time you can afford Hi-Fi, you can no longer hear it". Well, I've reached that stage at 75.
> 
> Somehow, the term "IOSONO® spatial sound technology" sounds like something that I am going to have to live without. Now, if they come up with something where I can connect a digital cable direct to my brain, I think they'll have something I can use.


Now that's passion. You are still a part of a A/V forum even when you cannot truly appreciate all of the benefits of home theater. I commend you and hope I am still as involved as you when I reach 75! :clap:


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 18, 2006)

I'm educating myself for my next step in home theater, hence the involvement in this thread. I'll be moving to some sort of software control of my home automation soon, probably Cebotics HouseBot. Then it's receiver upgrade time as my old Marantz SR 780 doesn't do the new codecs.

Then, on the horizon, 3D, perhaps not for me, we'll see.

Just got back from working out with weights at the gym. I refuse to sit in a rocking chair and get old.

Forums such as this, and the help I can get, allow for a lot of "keeping up" that didn't use to be possible.

P.S. Toby, I see you're in Oklahoma City. I used to be Program Director of KOMA (1520) back in the early 60's when it was a major AM rock station. Love that city.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Uh, how about waitresses/waiters dressed ala Hooter's/Chip-n-Dale's style for refreshments?:rofl: Or a 'keeper of the silence' usher that could zap cell phone users/noisy people?

Otherwise, I'm pretty happy at home:bigsmile:


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I personally hope the big theaters don't fold. While I agree that watching at home has most of the advantages, still there is something about the truely big screen & atmosphere there...& the popcorn is the best.

I only go for the special engagements like Lord of the Rings, some of the Harry Potters' & Avatar. Now that there is an IMAX 3D here, it seems like I only consider movies playing there. This is my point, I think they will always 1 up the home theater market with such technology & it's fun to go & be a part of it.

I'm suprized 3D projectors are not being touted yet. Thats got to be the next big thing for the home market. Makes you wonder what the big theaters will have for us next.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh, I don't want them to fold- just for people to be more respectful of others, cleaner, take a shower before they go:yikes:

Our imax stinks because they won't play anything that's not historical/educational, and I do mean anything. It stinks having to see that imax theaters elsewhere have diverse showings, but then, I'm in 'West Texas' :rolleyesno:


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Our 1st IMAX here in Tallahassee was the same way, but it was part of our Challenger Learning Center (local museum). After a while they started showing limited big box titles. I bet they needed more revenue than the educational stuff was bringing.

Now AMC has added IMAX theaters in their Mall location, haven't seen any educational stuff there! You could ask the local manager why they aren't offering any movies. He should explain exactly whats going on. Find out where your IMAX's funding is coming from. You could check with them next. It tax dollars are helping support it, theres a good chance that taxpayer input will carry some clout...let your voice be heard.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah, that's it alright- a children's science spectrum is connected to it.


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

Tonto said:


> Our 1st IMAX here in Tallahassee was the same way, but it was part of our Challenger Learning Center (local museum). After a while they started showing limited big box titles. I bet they needed more revenue than the educational stuff was bringing.
> 
> Now AMC has added IMAX theaters in their Mall location, haven't seen any educational stuff there! You could ask the local manager why they aren't offering any movies. He should explain exactly whats going on. Find out where your IMAX's funding is coming from. You could check with them next. It tax dollars are helping support it, theres a good chance that taxpayer input will carry some clout...let your voice be heard.


AMC added an "IMAX" auditorium to our mall as well. If you have ever been to a real IMAX theater you see how gimmicky the AMC version is. Honestly, it was just a larger & louder version of the existing AMC auditoriums. I'm beginning to wonder if any of the IMAX technologies are being implemented in these new "hybrid auditoriums" at all. (I'm sure someone will correct me as soon as I post this.) I was not impressed. I wonder if IMAX is hurting for money to the point that they are simply licensing their name to theaters building big auditoriums.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

We have the same here, We have two IMAX theaters one is inside a science center and it only shows The Dream is alive, Out of Africa sort of stuff. The second is in a mega plex movie theater at West Edmonton Mall and it only shows IMAX movies.
One thing that more and more theatrs are already doing is going with digital projectors rater than film Not sure I like that idea as film (when it is new) looks better.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

I wish the Boston Museum of Science's OMNI Theater (which is IMAX) would do some standard entertainment along with its educational stuff. Granted it's a museum and all, but if I remember it correctly from when I saw "Jellyfish Lake" in 5th grade, the place has a massive screen that more or less looks like an oversized planetarium playing movies. It's HUGE, and literally reaching directly overhead like an upside-down salad bowl.. If only! One of my distinct memories there is when almost my entire class fell out of the seats (one kid even puked) as the camera was showing a helicopter view going over Mt. Everest in a preview- I would pay huge money to see something like Avatar on that screen instead of the one in Hooksett, NH, which is more or less just a plus-sized wall screen with a serious sound system backing it up.. Looks like I'm dreaming again 

I'm definitely interested to see what this focused-sound technology has to offer


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Dreaming? Join the club. Saw "How to Train Your Dragon" in the theater yesterday- a 3:00 matinee with 6, yes 6 people...seemed like they switched the compression mode on the sound- it was lame :hissyfit: The movie was good, but my system with 50" plasma addle: that showing. Probably over a year since I went to the theater, and without anyone there I was disappointed :huh: Guess that means I'm doing something right?


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## Derry (Apr 10, 2010)

I have to admit the 3D Avatar movie made me want to see it again,, I will buy the Blu-Ray DVD but prior that it's been a long time since I have been in a theater,,

Avatar has put 3D back on the screen and was so well done compared to the older 3D that it should continue to grow,, the movie producers have to do something to keep our interest as they feeding trough of stories is becoming weak,, 

I'm amazed at how many continue to go to the theater yet regularly complain about the lack of quality movies,,

we have HBO and all the movie channels that ATT Uverse offers and as others have stated, there are many movies I have watched that I was sure glad the wife and I did not drop $20 to see when they were in the theater,, have to say the recent HBO presentation of Pacific has been very well done,, some slow spots but the sound and PQ are top level,, I have a 63" plasma in my HT room with THX sound,, 

the wife and her sister will go when the more popular chick movies are released,, she will even comment on the content of the movie but still goes back,, she just likes the large theater room experience,,

Derry


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

I think it is inevitable that movie theaters will eventually start drying up. 1080p 50"+ displays are becoming way too cheap for most average income families not to spring for one in the next 3 years if the don't already have one. The average person is still WAY behind on audio, but the purchase of the 50"+ display seems to at least have them taking a second look at a mediocre audio system. Won't be long before the HT Room becomes just as common as a living room or garage.


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## HtFiend (Apr 9, 2010)

RLouis said:


> IMAX is the only theater worth going to. We have four in the Washington DC area but three are Smithsonian theaters which generally don't show "Hollywood" movies. Unfortunately none are IMAX Dome theaters either. I'll probably go see Avatar 3D in a theater, but only because it's 3D. Theaters are on the same road as libraries and music stores.



Agreed. I won't even waste my money with normal theaters anymore unless the movie is a comedy. I mean, I really have no reason to see Will Farrel in Imax. But if it's anything else I want Imax and I think the next step for theaters is to have all their screens Imax.


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## hayabusa3 (Apr 10, 2010)

HtFiend said:


> I really have no reason to see Will Farrel in Imax. .


Haha - I can't STAND Will Farrel!:boxer:


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## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

Oh, I think it is waaaay to early to give up on movie theaters. When they start partnering Iosono sound with 3D, it will raise the bar of movie presentation much higher than we can get at home. 

Plus, with digital technology taking over movie theaters, and the proliferation of D-cinema and its associated technologies, movie theaters can branch off into a lot of different areas, such as HD broadcast of the Metropolitan Theaters ballets and plays, Drum corps championships, the Kentucky Derby in HD, corporate video conferencing, 3D soccer and football games, and various other things. It is not just about movies in most state of the art theaters, they have the facilities to do so much more.


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## paulspencer (May 11, 2007)

Don't forget that going to the cinema counts as leaving the house. I think having it all at home and relaxing at home with a movie appeals more to men. Women often seem to like going out more. It earns points with the wife/girlfriend. I think the future of the cinema is possibly saved by the fact that going to the movies is more than just the picture and the sound - it's something to do together. Think about it - people will often watch a movie at home alone, but going to the cinema is something people do with their parter/friends. It's also a social thing.


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

paulspencer said:


> Don't forget that going to the cinema counts as leaving the house. I think having it all at home and relaxing at home with a movie appeals more to men. Women often seem to like going out more. It earns points with the wife/girlfriend. I think the future of the cinema is possibly saved by the fact that going to the movies is more than just the picture and the sound - it's something to do together. Think about it - people will often watch a movie at home alone, but going to the cinema is something people do with their parter/friends. It's also a social thing.


Now those are wise words. Good call on that one. For me, coming up with romantic ideas is about as natural as pulling out my own teeth. Just ask my wife.


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## paulspencer (May 11, 2007)

Toby, I think we're all just at slightly different levels of "cluelessness" in that area.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

paulspencer said:


> Don't forget that going to the cinema counts as leaving the house. I think having it all at home and relaxing at home with a movie appeals more to men. Women often seem to like going out more. It earns points with the wife/girlfriend. I think the future of the cinema is possibly saved by the fact that going to the movies is more than just the picture and the sound - it's something to do together. Think about it - people will often watch a movie at home alone, but going to the cinema is something people do with their parter/friends. It's also a social thing.


Definitely true for many people, and this is one of the theaters' saving graces.

However, now that my humble theater has achieve "not a movie, but an experience" status with friends and family, it seems like people just wanna come to my place for getting out instead of the cinema haha. They're still getting out of the house in the end though (even if I'm not, which is perfectly ok), so I guess it's kind of the same thing


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## paulspencer (May 11, 2007)

Spuddy,
I'm all for it. Most of the time I'd rather have friends over and entertain rather than go out to the cinema. It's a lot more relaxed and afterwards you don't have to navigate to cars or work out where you can talk. You can just sit back right there and chat, enjoy some drinks without worrying about driving. What I find strange is that so many want to have seats in their home cinemas that are like in a commercial cinema. To me this is the one thing that is always better at home even in a normal lounge room. _*Couches are so much better!*_ ... so if it was up to me, the cinema would be a very rare thing!


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

I'm not a fan of going to the theater. I have to drive into town, find a parking spot, arrive 30min early so I can get a good seat, wait outside the theater for the doors to open, and think about the $5 drink (x2), 6.50 popcorn, 9.50 ticket (x2) I just spent. If it's an IMAX, like when I went and saw Transformers 2, then raise that to $12/ticket.:spend: At that rate, all I have to do is watch 29 movies at home instead of the theater to pay for my 54" I bought around Christmas time. Then another 60-70 to pay for the audio.

As long as more and more technologies come out, prices will continue to raise in order to pay for the upgraded hardware. As prices continue to climb, I'll go to the theater less and less.



Toby Jack said:


> Now those are wise words. Good call on that one. For me, coming up with romantic ideas is about as natural as pulling out my own teeth. Just ask my wife.


Luckily for me my wife doesn't think going to the movies is romantic. For her it's fancy food and dancing, which also spills over to me cooking dinner (and cleaning the subsequent dishes) and watching a chick flick with me. For the price of us going to the movie, buying sugar filled pop, and saturated fat flavored pop corn, I can fix a nice meal with a complimentary micro brew and still save money.

I think Target calls me a frugalistist?


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

Toby Jack said:


> I figured they would have something with some serious beef to power all those speakers. I would love to watch a movie on a correctly-calibrated system. I feel like there is a lot of potential there.


Dont they just use active speakers in cinemas?


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

The Danley site says that the Chicago Museum IMAX uses his subwoofer! Now, there is a theater I would like to hear. 

At most theaters the sound is lousy and they make me want to run out the theater screaming.  I really prefer my comfortable chairs and 120" screen. I see theaters going to the way of the full-serve gas station. 

Matt


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Moonfly said:


> Dont they just use active speakers in cinemas?


No, not in most theaters that I have seen. The amps are sometimes located in the Projection room or behind the screen. 
I agree that the sound is usually just awful compared to what I get in my own theater.


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## paulspencer (May 11, 2007)

I can't speak for your cinemas in the US, but here is one popular brand here in Australia:

http://www.krix.com.au/Product/Detail.aspx?p=45&id=47

A typical cinema speaker would be possibly 3 way bi-amped with a passive xo between two compression drivers in horns. This brand uses Beyma drivers. A DIYer could easily make one for their HT and make it look cool and industrial. Although personally I think the horns have a bit too much coloration.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

mdrake said:


> The Danley site says that the Chicago Museum IMAX uses his subwoofer! Now, there is a theater I would like to hear.
> 
> At most theaters the sound is lousy and they make me want to run out the theater screaming.  I really prefer my comfortable chairs and 120" screen. I see theaters going to the way of the full-serve gas station.
> 
> Matt


I'm not sure what subwoofer(s) the Hooksett, NH IMAX is using, but I will vouch for their setup as well- When the big ships exploded during Avatar, I felt a blast of air hit me, making the frequency at least a couple of hertz below 20, and the decible level at least... something nice and potent  I hope they can keep the power levels at mind-blowing levels, 'cause that's they only reason I'll be going back :hsd:


ps.. awesome profile pic!


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

Moonfly said:


> Dont they just use active speakers in cinemas?


You are probably right now that I think about it. That makes way more sense anyway.


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