# Oppo and Sanyo don't play together



## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

I'm SMOKIN' HOT MAD! 

It...............D*O*E*S.....N*O*T.....W*O*R*K!

Here's the players:
Harman Kardon AVR-645
Oppo 981
Sanyo PLV Z2

I hooked up my new Oppo with child like enthusiasm and I get an on screen message that says:

"DISPLAY DOES NOT CONTAIN HDCP CAPABLITY"

And Yes! They even spelled it wrong! They are telling me to shove my new purchase where the sun don't shine and they can't even spell CAPABILITY correctly!

I've pressed every button on the receiver and projector trying to get the setting/preferences 'right' and it does not work.
If I turn ON the "HDMI VIDEO OUT" on the receiver nothing works. I can hear audio, but no video displays from the three disc players I have until I turn "HDMI VIDEO OUT" OFF, then everything works except the Oppo.

HELP PLEASE!!!!!! I'm at wit's end.......

I'm calling on ALL of my forum buddies to help me please!
Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

wrut-wro! 

Z2... you must be using component. I didn't think component had to be HDCP compliant, but then again I don't know squat about HDCP. 

Maybe someone will know what's up, but it don't sound good (don't hit me, please).


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Hi sonnie!

Nope, No component. Using DVI adapted from the Oppo 25' HDMI cable at the back of the PJ.
Here's the "spec sheet" from ProjectorCentral on the Sanyo:
Notice the comment about *"Digital Input: DVI-I (HDCP)"* ?

http://projectorcentral.com/Sanyo-PLV-Z2.htm

Thanks for giving it a shot Sonnie, and NO I would NEVER hit the boss!!

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Okay... you can use the component and you should be okay. I know that sounds like a bummer, but with the Z2 I want to say more people were impressed with the component input than the DVI. I used the component when I had my Z2. Otherwise I think you are poop out of luck... :huh:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Where's the poop smiley Sonnie? 

I would have kept my existing DVD players had I known I'd have to use component. My understanding was that HDMI/DVI has a better video quality than anything else. That's why I popped for the Oppo.
........All Digital.......All The Time........

I could try that, I've got 3 component cables running from the rack to the PJ, but it's been wired to the XBox360.
That's a last ditch effort though. :sob: 

Maybe I could get the wife to agree we need to get a "more modern PJ". :rofl2: :rofl: :spend: 

I'll keep that idea "in the bank" Sonnie, but I'm hoping for........._SOMETHING_ that keeps it digital.

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

There is no better time than now and you will be tickled at the improvement....

Z5 for $1295 after rebate (just add it to your cart and see the deal!)


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

*DUDE!!.....That's like giving an alcoholic a beer when he's walking into an AA meeting*

You are evil!!!! :devil: 

That's MEAN!!!!!!!!!

Kick me in the nads.........why don'tcha!

Jeez, that hurts man.... You're cruel. That should be illegal, what you just did!

------_Ok, I checked ProjectorCentral.com's website for "The Calculator Pro", and the unit WILL work with my throw distance and screen size._

But that doesn't excuse you for what you did. Man! It still stings! OUCH!!

I'd like to keep my body parts (and my marriage) the way they are. 
*SOOOOoooooo*, if anybody *****ELSE***** can help me, I thank you.

Bob

p.s. Don't worry Sonnie, I'd have done the same thing too! :bigsmile:


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Hmm, people route 1080p from HDMI into DVI input all the time, so I don't understand why there would be any handshake issues. Are you going directly to the projector, or going through the receiver first? I'd recommend sending the video directly to the projector and just using an optical or digital coax cable forthe audio. That should do the trick.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

UPDATE: (Day One)

I've tried two alternatives:

#1 Wire the Oppo output (HDMI) to the receiver, then component/RGB to the PJ.
-----Nothing. Blue screen. That seems odd.
(Yes, I reconfigured the PJ's input settings.........)

#2 Wire the Oppo (HDMI) to the PJ (with DVI-I adapter), then optical from Oppo to receiver.
Reconfigured the settings. I got an alternating blue screen (signaling a lack of input signal) to a black screen (the screen I get just before/while it recognizes an input), but then goes back to blue.

.......Spent an entire day of my life overcoming an industries desire not to have movies bootlegged.

Bob


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Found this from bluejeans cable on the varieties of DVI-I:



> (1) DVI-D only; this device has no signal available on the analog pins, but uses a DVI-I socket only to allow a DVI-I cable to be used;
> (2) DVI-A only; this device has no DVI-D digital signal available, and is simply using a DVI socket as a port for accepting a regular analog signal format (usually RGBHV, which would include VGA). The device may be connected to any RGBHV device, using a DVI-I cable, a DVI/VGA cable, or a DVI breakout to five separate lines for R, G, B, H and V.
> (3) True DVI-I; this device has both analog and digital capability through this port. It may autosense, using a digital signal if present or an analog signal if no digital signal is found, or the digital/analog mode may have to be selected manually by a switch or menu selection.


If your projector's DVI input can't handle digital, that would explain your problems, and you're essentially screwed. No need to keep the Oppo if tht is the case.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Interesting Steve. (Bad, but interesting)

A fellow by the name of "_lousymusician_" (Bill) from the HawthorneAudio forum has BIG news (VERY VERY bad though):

http://www.hawthorneaudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6873#6873

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yeah... I'm 100% sure you are poop out of luck with the Z2... you will have to use component... OR: 


*Spoiler* 



The Z5 is calling you :yes: ... what are you waiting on... go ahead and get this thang and quit whining about something you cannot do anything about... :bigsmile:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Ok Sonnie, You win.


Let me get my credit card.....



Just a minute...........




I'll be right back............




Hold on..............




Almost there...............




Here it comes.............




Are you ready............




Can you see it yet?.............


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Sonnie, since I posted last, there has been a new development in "Bob's life":



I was actually concidering upgrading the PJ to the Z5. Yea, I really was.
The wife woke up early this morning and came downstairs (happens very rarely) only to find me looking at *YOUR LINK TO THE Z5.*
I explained the situation to her thinking she'd roll her eyes and pat me on the head like the good little puppy that I am and she actually is sympethetic to the situation. 

She says I can get a new PJ,raying: but there's a condition (or two...)::yikes: 
My existing PJ would go upstairs and require a total redesign of the living rooms electrical/cable/phone wiring (all to the other side of the room). I'd have to design and build a "stealth" PJ screen that has a very high WAF. Which would eliminate the old school monster 53" Sony RPTV and make for new furniture that would go in it's place.
Oh, and then I have to remove the carpet and install wood floors in that room, the kitchen and dining room. Roughly about 1,000 square feet. Complete with new base molding, door casing and door trim in those rooms.
That's the deal.
So this $200 DVD player has snowballed into thousands of dollars.

How bad do I want this?

Bob

p.s. I'm blaming you personally, Sonnie, for all of this.addle:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Sonnie, 
I also just noticed the little green light on your post has turned to gray, signifying you're not online at this time.
I've NEVER seen your light 'off'. You are ALWAYS online.

I've got no other choice but to believe you're hiding from me.:waiting: 

Bob


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

Hey Sonnie, Bob and others...

The Oppo 981 has no component outputs - only HDMI, Standard and S-Video.

While there are some recievers that have both connections, it is not common however, in early 2007, to find one that will transcode from one type to another, and probably not even possible to go from HDMI to Component, since that would override the copy protection.


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

I cannot say for sure, but if the Z2 is HDCP compatible, then it might be a problem this device can fix:
(Did the Z2 have a DVI input, instead of HDMI?)

DVI Doctor - Powered EDID problem solver...
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...cs_id=1011003&p_id=3048&seq=1&format=2&style=


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Jack, I believe you're right.
One of the attempts I made was to run the HDMI from the 981 to the receivers input. Then output from the receivers RGB/component to the Z2. Didn't work, I got nothing. Not even a blink from the PJ signifying it was getting an input signal. It wasn't the way I _wanted_ to do it, but I gave it a shot anyway, thinking someday I'd be upgrading the PJ to full HDMI, just not so soon.

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Opps, I was typing while you were posting your 2nd reply Jack.
I've never heard of the DVI doctor, I'll check it out.

Yes, the Z2 is SUPPOSED to be HDCP capable/compliant.

Bob


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

Bob, Don't you have a home theater PC?

I read an article recently where the Recent video cards from ATI and NVidia were doing such a good job scaling DVD's that they outscored $2000-3000 dedicated DVD players.

ATI and nVidia crush high-end DVD players



Hey Bob, as a side note, remember that Toshiba HD-A2 I was reccomending? Well for one, you would have had the exact same Copy protection issue (although they might have spelled the error message differently) But also a HUGE part of that was so you could decode the Dolby Digital plus and truehd formats - but I've since learned that Toshiba didn't include the analog 5.1 outputs on the A2 (they were there on the A1) - which limits you back to the old dolby digital or DTS - no good!!!

So my own quandry now is - can a home theater pc be easy enough to use for my family?

Also as one last side note...

The xbox 360, will up-convert DVD's throught it's VGA connection (it will not through component due to a licensing issue - thats why you never see upconverting component video players in stores - they are all protected HDMI, and you just found out what a blast that is!)

I just ordered the HQV benchmark DVD for testing and ranking performance of DVD playback so I'll post some numbers on the 360 to see how they compare to the PC article I linked to above.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

No Jack, I don't have the PC "integrated" into the system yet, by true definition of a HTPC. I'm using it as a MCE on the 360 via wired ethernet cat6, but it is a standard Dell XPS 400 that's about 8 months old. I'm not sure It'd be good enough as it sits to be used as a HTPC without some costly upgrades.

The DVI Doctor looks interesting, but it keeps refering to having a PC "in the loop". I'm not sure if they are saying you have to use a PC or not.

I hate the idea of spending another $55 + shipping to undue some B.S. problem "the industry" has caused, but if this is the only way it'll work I'd buy it to avoid spending several thousand dollars on my wifes plan!
(assuming it truely does not need a PC involved in the loop)??

Bob


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

Hey Bob, 

I just noticed something on the sanyo site...
unfortunalty there is no manual link for the Z2, so I cant validate this, but
on this page, down at the bottom, under 'other features' there's a picture of the back panel.
see where it says DVI - then after that it looks like it says RGB/Component.
those are two separate color systems.

Also thinking back to a panasonic dvd player with hdmi, i remember there being a few settings there too...

So, I think this is a long shot, but I would look through the Z2's menus and see if there isnt a way to treat the dvi input differently.

I would also hook up the yellow video cable from the oppo temporarily and see if there aren't some settings in the oppo that you can adjust -(Colorspace etc..) this would be easiest if you had a small tv you could connect it to, so you can see the oppo's output, while at the same time running the hdmi over to your projector.


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

Hey bob, we're crossing posts...

Since you already own a 360, I would spring for the VGA cable for it and hook that up to the projector and see what you think of it's upscaling performance.

We bought a new TV with the DCDi chipset in it, and it does a great job, but the xbox 360 blew it away.
I have the HD-DVD drive on my 360, and I'm not sure if that modifies the firmware or not, but I will check it with the HQV benchmark DVD ($20) and let you know how it does (the old oppo 970 got 120 out of 130, and the ati card got 118 and the nvidia card got 123 of 130 - by comparison the Denon 3910 ($$$) got 58! )


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

one more note... It's at least worth a call to Sanyo to see if there isn't a firmware update for your Z2.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

I looked through the menus yesterday and set-up "input 2" as the prefered input.
"Input 1" is the composite/RGB/S-video inputs.
"input 2" is the DVI-I / Component inputs. Although I'm slightly confused as to why/how they call DVI-I as "component"??

I was able to wire the Oppo with the single yellow cable to the receiver to display the Oppo's menu. Didn't find anything that made a difference.
Watched a few minutes of a movie through this cable, (just for the **** of it) WOW that's bad!

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

I've been using the VGA/RGB cable on the 360 since I bought it. (You're talking about the big fat gray cable that uses the proprietary connection that plugs into the back of the 360, right. It's the one that has the optical output jack.)

It's going straight to the PJ, not through the receiver. Had to get double female adaptors since the long run cables were terminated in male RCA's and the 360's cables were terminated in male RCA's also.
Bob


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Ermm, spending a few thousand dollars to get a newer projector that will work with a $200 dvd player is kinda extreme, no? :spend: And while the Z5 looked nice, it didn't exactly blow me away. If you didn't find your video performance lacking before, and just wanted a discrete dvd player and figured to try the Oppo for a few bucks more since it is well regarded, I'd just get an inexpensive discrete player that has good component performance.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Yes it is Steve, but this whole hobby is kind of extreme. No? :bigsmile: ha ha

I won't buy the Z5 IF I get a new PJ. 
If I get something, It'll be 1080. I wouldn't spend this kind of money and not go "all the way". I was just looking for a nice little resolution upgrade when I got the 981. I wasn't looking for all this mess. But the wife seems fairly willing to embrace this whole new PJ thing (if I can handle "the deal" she made?), if I do truely decide to spend that kind of cash, I won't be upgrading for a very long time so it'll be the top of the line.

Where's Sonnie? 

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hmmm.... 1080p? Now you're talking $3500... :raped:

Mind you... the Z5 setup properly will be a far cry better than the Z2. Get a Toshiba XA-2 and be in heaven (almost). :bigsmile:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> Get a Toshiba XA-2 and be in heaven (almost). :bigsmile:


That link to AVS had lots of guys with HDCP problems on the A1's and A2's..... :sarcastic: 

Why can't it be easy?

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> Hmmm.... 1080p? Now you're talking $3500...


I should quit talking out of my rear end....I didn't think they were that expensive!

In my defence, I have not checked PJ prices in a long time (again, since I didn't think I was going to be in the market anytime soon.)

After a quick search on ProjectorCentral for 1080p, the lowest prices were in the $4400 range.

Jeeeezzz!!
Nevermind that 1080 thing...

*IF* I get a PJ, I'll do more research (Duh!) But I like my Sanyo Z2. Despite the fact that I feel a little "ganked" after this episode, I'd have to include the Z5 in my "look at" list.

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

.............By the way Sonnie, after all those cool smilies and all the poking in the ribs I gave you, you didn't even say a word!:cunning: 

:bigsmile: 

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm use to getting poked... I don't even feel it anymore... :flex:

I really only suggested the Z5 because you have the Z2 and liked it... and the fact that it's only $1295 after rebate, which is awfully cheap. I think the Z4, which is what I have, is only about $800-900. My thought would be to go with the least expensive or best bang for the buck for now and wait for the 1080p machines to come down in price, which will only take a couple of years.

You won't have any HDCP issues with the XA2 and a Z4 or Z5.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Found this, thought it was interesting:

http://www.quantumdata.com/products/HDMI_support.asp

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

OFFICIAL UPDATE to all forums:

I emailed Oppo Tech Support this morning. No reply yet.

I called Sanyo Tech Support. Spoke with a very friendly rep that seems more than willing to help. He had a few "quick tries" for me that I've already performed. He needs the serial number, which I don't have here at work so I'll call in the AM. He said I may need a firmware upgrade. I didn't bother to tell him that solution has never worked in any situation I've read about on the forums (I don't like when customers tell me how to do my job,...didn't figure he would either). Funny thing is, he wants the serial number to find out the firmware version, I said I can get the version number from the menu. His response was, "No, you can't. It's not possible". Ok, whatever. (it *IS* possible for a consumer to find this out). I'll call tomorrow with the serial number.

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Now-now Bob... you know you are not suppose to be looking at that menu where the firmware version is... :nono:

Z5 and XA2... :teenieyes:


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> Now-now Bob... you know you are not suppose to be looking at that menu where the firmware version is... :nono:


Yea, well....Tell the guys on AVS. They've make it a career!! It's all about the "hack" for some folks.
I giggle like a little school girl when I enter a gaming cheat code. I'd explode if I got in something I _REALLY_ shouldn't be into.:bigsmile: 



> Z5 and XA2... :teenieyes:


 I can still _HEEEAAARR YOUUUU_. Bad Bad Man! 

Sonnie - Never forget the air and ground strike I called on you last time. :cunning: addle: :fireworks2:
Enough artillary shells and you'll look like this guy -----> :dumbcrazy: 

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

I got home tonite after work to sit down and print out the directions to find my firmware number and get the serial number for Sanyo.
I received this email from Oppo:

------------------------------------------
Bob,

The DV-981HD will not properly synchronize with the Sanyo Z2 models due
to a lack of HDCP communication between the two units. For this reason,
we highly recommend the use of the OPDV971H, as it does not have any
HDCP handshake errors.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.
453 Ravendale Dr, Suite D
Mountain View, CA 94043
[email protected]
Tel: 650-961-1118
Fax: 650-961-1119
------------------------------------------

Sounds pretty "cut and dry" doesn't it.

Bob


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Getting a less expensive dvd player to do the trick as opposed to plopping down over a grand for a new projector and then all that stuff your wife wanted sounds good to me :T Save the money for more media.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Could you swap the player for the 971?


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Steve, you're 100% correct. 
The wife can take her wood floors and jamb them in her.......nevermind :innocent: 
I won't be buying a new PJ anytime soon (sorry Sonnie):bigsmile: 

Sonnie, Yes. You may have missed a few posts back I posted the reply from Oppo Tech Support.
They said (without mixing words) the 981 _WILL NOT WORK WITH THE Z2_.
Their recommendation is to exchange it for the 971. No option. No alternatives. No choices. No further tech support needed. No more questions. They are DONE. "Give it back, we'll send you a 971".

So, I guess that means oppo has another "refurbished" unit they can sell at a discount.

:scratchhead: I'll bet that's where they all came from. There was NO problem with the units to begin with.
It was a compatability problem. :yes: 

Bob

You know.......I may reply to that email and ask them about "The DVI Doctor" and "The DVI Detective".


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Just out of curiousity, what do you guys think of a Philips DVP642/37 for use in HT compared to an XBox 360?

I've got one in the rack, I've been using as a CD player (although it's a DVD player)

Here's a spec sheet: (notice the video upsampling notes on the right side column, page 2.)

http://www.p4c.philips.com/na4/d/dvp642_37/dvp642_37_pss_aen.pdf

Thanks 
Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

OFFICIAL UPDATE:

Ok, Oppo wrote back regarding using one of the pseudo handshake devises:

--------------------------------------


Bob,

We have not used any of these solutions so we do not know if they will
be applicable towards properly synchronizing the two devices. You can
always try out the "DVI Doctor" from MonoPrice.com as they have a great
return policy.

Best Regards,

Customer Service
OPPO Digital, Inc.

---------------------------------------

Now, do I want to be a guinea pig for Sanyo and Oppo?
Or do I want this done and over with by exchanging for the 971?

decisions decisions....

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

If the return policy allows you to return it if it don't work... that might be easier.


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