# Subwoofer Advice



## mancave50 (Aug 2, 2012)

I have a Home theater cave in my basement - 20' x 25' (Ceiling 10' high)
Pioneer VSX 1122k
Infinity Beta 50 tower fronts
Infinity Beta 20 Surrounds
Infinity Beta C350 Center
Mirage Nanosat rear surrounds

So whats missing......the subwoofer........ and it's my birthday!!

These are the units I am considering:

Emotiva xref 12 DSP
Epik Legend
Epik Empire
HSU VTF 3mk4
ED 350
SVS SB12
Outlaw LFM-1EX
Rythmik - FV12

All are under a grand. 90% Home Theater use. Wife Appreciation Factor not an issue.....she has the REST of the house to play in!

Done a lot of OCD google searching and these kept coming to the top.
Trying to decide which one to pull the trigger on.
Haven't demo'd any of them.
Any Subs I am missing?


----------



## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Rythmik F15 or a pair of Epik Legends


----------



## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

That's a good-sized room. I vote for dual Legends or an HSU VTF-15H.


----------



## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Your room is 5000 cubic feet, which is going to take quite a lot of subwoofer to fill. Actually, it's going to take subwoofer*s* I'm afraid.



mancave50 said:


> These are the units I am considering:
> 
> Emotiva xref 12 DSP
> Epik Legend
> ...


eD has been having enormous problems for well over a year, so you might want to steer clear of them. The XRef 12 and SB12 are far too small for that room, even if you bought duals. You would more then likely need 4 in order to handle that amount of space. The FV12 is out of production, and has been for months, so you can scratch it off your list. 

That leaves 4 options from your original list, and I don't think anything less then a dual of any will suffice. For cost reasons perhaps a pair of Legends, or if you can swing it LFM-1EX's.

Since it's your birthday why not just throw the budget out a window and splurge!


----------



## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

My vote is for the HSU VTF-15H. I think that it has the most output of anything in its price range. You may wish to post an inquiry to Dr. Hsu at:

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2

He is very helpful. I have seen him recommend a lower price sub in their product line - unusual for a manufacturer to do.

The ULS-15 is also a great sub - I have 4 in my 12x20 HT. But, it will take more than one of them for your room.

The recommendations for more than one sub have merit for more than just more output. Locating multiple subs in different places can provide a more linear freq response, since each one will excite room modes differently at the main seating areas.


----------



## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Forum. Have fun. Dennis


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I have a LFM1-EX in an open floor plan home and I am well satisfied with it.
I chose it over the VTF3 because it was on sale for significantly less.
I do not require ( or desire) bone crushing bass.
I like the sub to be well integrated with the speakers and only draw attention at the appropriate times providing a tactile presence.
I would vote for the VTF3.


----------



## mancave50 (Aug 2, 2012)

Thanks for all the quality feedback. Although the room is 20 x 25, the HT area is in the front half of the room. However, it is not partitioned so the sound will end up filling (or NEEDING to fill) the entire space. I have a lot of stuff going on and can't swing more than $800 for sub right now. Maybe I could upgrade again later (that is, after all, what we live for right?? ;-). The Beta towers offer a fair amount of bass, so I'm looking for something that will be there to cover the true bottom scale and add depth and punch to the low end. 

Might be able to swing dual Legends. Seems like a lot of bang for buck with the introductory price point. 

Thanks again....still thinking. Appreciate feedback. 

Tom


----------



## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

> I have a lot of stuff going on and can't swing more than $800 for sub right now. Maybe I could upgrade again later (that is, after all, what we live for right?? ;-).


In that case, you could always start with a single HSU VTF-3 MK4, Outlaw LFM-1 EX or SVS PB12-NSD now, and add another one later if necessary...or even if not necessary, but just simply desired. 

Or just go with dual Legends right off the bat.


----------



## mancave50 (Aug 2, 2012)

Remeasured......HT listening area is 10' X 14'. Understanding that the sound waves will still travel to the rest of the room, this is the corner that the HT is located in.


----------



## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

I can't figure why you wouldn't be happy with dual Legends.


----------



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Go HSU... What a cool company. Excellent customer service.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

When a ported sub rolls off it is a hard curve but the VTF3 is flat all the way to the low 20's.
Plus it can be run in several "tune modes".
The sealed subs need room gain to achieve flat response to the low 20's. That is great if you have it, and if you don't then you have to try to boost the low end and that requires lots of power, if you are going sealed go with the Empire.


----------



## GoNoles (Jul 7, 2012)

Out of curiosity, since Im new to a lot of the ID sub brands, what have ED's problems been?


----------



## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

GoNoles said:


> Out of curiosity, since Im new to a lot of the ID sub brands, what have ED's problems been?


Frankly, it would be easier to say what they've done right then try and detail all they've done wrong. The former list would be far shorter then the latter. 

The crux of it is eD will probably go down as a text book example of how _not_ to run a company, or how to run one into the ground. They were flying high at one point and could do no wrong, making good products with solid value and selling a ton of stuff. Their fanboys were lining up to heap praise on them, then the wheels started to come off. Whether it was they got too big too fast, or they simply stopped paying attention, something went very wrong.

It started a few years back with an almost constant string of boneheaded problems; paint issues on their cabinets, no cardboard boxes to ship products, running out of parts (drivers, amps, etc), missed shipments and on and on. Most of those would come and go, but the one issue they never, ever solved was the absolutely ridiculously long shipping times. It was a constant problem, month after month after month.

A typical conversation among eD sycophants on one of their threads often went like this; _"been 7 weeks now, but still don't have a tracking number" "7 weeks? that's all? I waited 15 for my sub" "you're both just pups - I didn't get mine for 22 weeks!"_. For some inexplicable reason these guys considered it some kind of badge of honor to continue waiting for this company to ship them a sub when they could have gotten something of equal quality and value from a half dozen other places, in a 1/10th of the time too. That part I couldn't understand - I _never_ would have waited like they did.

Through it all eD maintained excellent customer service so the screw ups were simply laughed off, but that all changed once the amps started dropping like flies. Then emails and phone calls stopped getting returned, the company principals no longer participated in the forums and they basically made like an ostrich and buried their collective heads in the sand. Overnight eD went almost completely invisible, and customer service went down the toilet.

The story has many more facets, which I won't go into, but suffice it to say there's a lot more tales of woe then what I've mentioned. My guess is they end up going under -- at least chapter 11 -- before this year is done. But I stress _that's simply my opinion_, based upon how far and fast they've fallen. When even your fanboys turn on you it makes me think the writing is on the wall. For sure they can't continue like they have this past year or two. No company can.


----------



## GoNoles (Jul 7, 2012)

I just did some reading on their forum and AVS, thanks for the explanation. It looks like they wont even be in business soon, if they still are. Feel bad for the folks that now have to initiate a credit card dispute.

To be honest, when it comes to an ID style company like Oppo, Hsu, other sub makers, if I dont get an email within one business day I give em a red x. SVS and Rythmik, as well as Hsu, have always been good with answering questions for me.


----------



## mancave50 (Aug 2, 2012)

Thanks for the input......I have also read about a thousand other posts and forums.....eeeeshhh......I think I have it down to the HSU VTF3 or the Outlaw LFM-1 EX. Birthday is tomorrow so I will sleep on it and dream in subsonic sound!!! I


----------



## GoNoles (Jul 7, 2012)

VTF3 is a nice sub. Im currently shopping for a "upgrade" in the $1000-1500 range, and the more I read the harder the decision is. I got about 3-4 weeks to decide. Ugh...


----------



## mancave50 (Aug 2, 2012)

noles.....Do you -- or have you -- owned a HSU
Sub? I read the entire Internet (smile) and I couldn't find a "bad" thing said about them. Outlaw is a close second. If I had your budget, would probably go higher up the HSU scale or maybe Rythmik, which look like nice subs but not cheap. I actually started out wanting a eD until
I heard the horror stories.


----------



## GoNoles (Jul 7, 2012)

Ive got a VTF2 MK4 and love it. My room sucks, its just big and I need more juice. Im torn right now between a Rythmik FV15HP or trying this new PSA XV30. On eD, I looked at the A7 450, but then ran away after the stories.


----------



## mancave50 (Aug 2, 2012)

How big is the room?? I was wondering if I could get away with that model.


----------



## GoNoles (Jul 7, 2012)

3588 cuft rectangular room, but one side opens to a dining room and kitchen. Dont get me wrong, it hits good, I just want more lol


----------



## mancave50 (Aug 2, 2012)

**Update:

I found a barely used still under warranty HSU VTF-3 on Craigslist for $500. Demo'd it and Bought it after 15 minutes! Brought it home and WOW. It is a beautiful beast. Bass is "filling" the space. It's wonderful. 

Thanks for the input all.....

Happy HSU owner!!


----------



## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Good find and enjoy your new sub. A good sub is paramount to the home theater experience.


----------

