# Apt budget newbie setup what do you think?



## genjix (Nov 23, 2010)

I have asked questions on this forum about setups, and thanks to you guys i have bookshelf speakers in mind that i want to buy. Please keep in mind I live in an apartment building with neighbors, I will never have it at room shaking volume. Just normal volume to watch movies. Im tired of speakers when watching movies the dialogue is low, then when i put up the volume to hear what their saying, when music comes into the movie, its very loud so then I have to lower the volume again, then the constant cycle when dialogue comes back on.
for now i just want a 3.1 set up. 

Pioneer S-31B-LR Bookshelf Speakers 
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-S-31B...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1315073130&sr=1-1

sombody pointed out the review here
Copied from a Sept 2011 stereophile review
stereophile wrote: 
One would expect the sound of a $149.99/pair bookshelf model to include some serious compromises and tradeoffs, but within its size limitations, the Pioneer SP-BS41-LR has none. It is a dynamic, coherent, and colorless reproducer of music, with quite convincing bass for its size. It should give lovers of all genres of music hours of convincing realism in the listening room, so long as those listeners keep their volume levels within reason and dont attempt to rewrite the laws of physics. Sure, spending two or three times as much can buy a number of speakers that will do one or more things better than the Pioneer. But Andrew Jones set himself a very high design goal with the SP-BS41-LR, and he has fully attained that goal-and without compromise. An impressive achievement indeed! 


2 following questions. What is a center speaker recommendation? should I go within the same line
Pioneer S-31C Center Speaker 
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-S-31C...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1315073130&sr=1-2

can I do with this subwoofer for $99
ESW-C8 Subwoofer System - Black Ash 

http://www.wwstereo.com/website/ecommerce/productdetail.aspx?product=ESW-C8


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

At the price Amazon shows I would seriously consider the SVS S Series. The 3 channels, left, right and center, will only cost $4 more than the price Amazon has on the Pioneers. Of course if you can find them for $150, that would be a different story. 

http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm

As far as the sub goes, it really all depends on what you want and what you can currently afford and finding a happy medium. Everyone on this forum, for the most part, will tell you to spend the money now and get something more like dual Epik Legends, etc. and that's because everyone on this forum, including yours truly, has spend gobs and gobs of money upgrading from $99 subs...

Hope this helps and doesn't actually make things worse.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Seems the pioneers might be hard to find for what stereophile quoted, Dale's recommendation might be better if you cant find them for that 150 price.

And having a identical center just like the left and right will work good also, its really your option...


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

genjix said:


> Please keep in mind I live in an apartment building with neighbors, I will never have it at room shaking volume. Just normal volume to watch movies. Im tired of speakers when watching movies the dialogue is low, then when i put up the volume to hear what their saying, when music comes into the movie, its very loud so then I have to lower the volume again, then the constant cycle when dialogue comes back on.


What you're talking about, unfortunately for yourself, has nothing to do with the speakers themselves. It's the nature of movie mixing.

Movies, unlike, say, modern pop music or even most tv shows, have an extremely wide dynamic range.

This means, if the average volume level is ~70db, it is possible to have peaks as loud as 95db, and LFE/subwoofer peaks as loud as 105db.

In movie theaters, the reference levels suggest that the average dialogue levels be around 85db (but are generally mixed lower IE 80db), with peaks as loud as 105db, and LFE peaks as loud as 115db.

So that means that if you turn the volume up to around 75db, the recording itself has potential for much louder peaks. Your speakers can't just "compress" that dynamic range like that.

What you need, is to find the "night mode" or "dynamic EQ" mode on your receiver. There are modern digital signal processing algorithms which compress dynamic range for low level listening and let you turn the volume up without peaks much louder. That is what you need.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Good point GranteedEV. I have found that better speakers and more power does seem to help with dialog definition and clarity. For me this allowed for overall lower listening volumes without as much loss of dialog.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Given your Apartment situation, you really might want to consider a pair of Floorstanding Speakers capable of lower Bass and forgoing a Subwoofer. The Pioneer's are fantastic as they were Designed by Andrew Jones who is behind the TAD Speakers that cost more than many nice vehicles.

Another thing to look into is getting an AVR that offers Audyssey Dynami Volume as it works to to address exactly what you describe. Low dialogue unless you raise the Volume pretty high. 

In the absence of DV, Tower Speakers would be a good compromise in that you will get a fuller sound without shaking the walls and getting complaints from your neighbors.
Cheers,
JJ


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Good point GranteedEV. I have found that better speakers and more power does seem to help with dialog definition and clarity. For me this allowed for overall lower listening volumes without as much loss of dialog.


Yes, good speakers will have superior dialogue intelligibility at lower levels, especially if they have flat response +/-2db from 200hz to 8khz and a wide, smooth tapering off axis response. Toole's book, Sound Reproduction also suggests that the more we excite side wall reflections with very similar reflections to the on axis response, the more easy it is for use to have high dialogue clarity at lower listening levels, compared to narrow directivity or acoustically damped reflections.

But IMO the above, won't stop the dynamic musical peaks in movie mixes, from being "too loud for an apartment"



> Another thing to look into is getting an AVR that offers Audyssey Dynami Volume as it works to to address exactly what you describe. Low dialogue unless you raise the Volume pretty high.


I'm a bit confused regarding Audyssey Dynamic Volume. I've heard that the main thing it does is raise surround speaker levels at low volumes, and alter the frequency response to mimic equal loudness curves. Is this correct?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
DV is adjustable so that it can work like a more sophisticated Night Mode. While there definitely has been more Surround in the mix, I have not noticed a huge increase in Bass. However, at low Volumes, it definitely makes Dialogue more clear for me.

I only use this when I have Guests over and wake up before them as I tend to be an early riser. Otherwise, I do not use it. Just thinking of Apartment HT, where Neighbors can really make HT quite frustrating which is why I was throwing out there using Towers and not a Subwoofer.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Almadacr (May 5, 2011)

Great options were already given i just want to say one thing , maybe you will be on a budget but even with a budget you can get better , regarding quality ( maybe this is one of the reasons that you think why your current system - this reading what you wrote till now ) the lack of quality maybe is affecting your listening . At amazon i would take the Wharfadale or at a Accessories4less i would take the KEF Iq 30 or the Q100/300 .

With these speakers you would improve the quality of your system and sound and keeping everything in a budget .
You also have Newegg 


:huh:


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I wonder how similar the $99 pioneers at best buy are to the pair the stereophile review features: Model: SP-BS21-LR | SKU: 1148218


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

I am in an apartment as well and i understand where you're coming from, it is very hard to watch and have a good experience without thinking "are my neighbors gonna be _pretty_ irritated" I recently picked up a denon 1612 and the audyssey dynamic volume makes a huge difference as far as keeping dialogue intelligible and everything else tolerable. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but a good center will do far more for dialogue clarity than the front L/R will. I come from more of a car audio background, but I noticed a huge difference with a new (new to me, bought it used) center channel and an amp with audyssey dynamic volume. Maybe its the years of abusing my ears in cars but i can hear the dialogue loud and clear now at a level I feel is far more acceptable for a living room with a shared wall.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I completely agree about the importance of the Center Channel. I find it to be the linchpin to a great HT.
Cheers,
JJ


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## mrbashfo (Oct 24, 2010)

I used to live in an apartment and never really had complaints from my neighbors until I upgraded the sub. They said the new sub shakes their floor like there was an earthquake. LOL Id say a small sub + floorstanding speakers will be pretty good.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Subwoofers and Apartments simply do not mix. When I first moved to Sarasota for Acupuncture School, I foolishly Googled "Best Apartments in Sarasota" and from what I saw from the Website, it looked amazing. Taking it up another notch in the stupidity department, I Signed a Lease. 

When I arrived after the 750 Mile Drive, I find that the Apartment was nothing special. Simply in a very prestigious Development. Even worse, I had an 85 Year Old Woman who lived right below me who had lived there for 6 years. 

My Paradigm Studio 100 V.2's (Front and Surrounds), Studio CC, and Servo 15 combined with the Amplifiers I have listed in my Signature were a true recipe for disaster. While I had lived in Apartments before, I had never lived in one where my Neighbor was so intolerant. While the Front Office loved me, she hated me. She ended up Moving Out because of me and I got a House the minute my Lease was up.

I really think using Floorstanding Speakers (Ideally Mains and Surrounds) and no Subwoofer is the best possible way to both enjoy your HT and not be in constant conflict with your neighbors.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Just buy a popcorn machine and invite the neighbors up for movies...


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## gorb (Sep 5, 2010)

Dale Rasco said:


> Just buy a popcorn machine and invite the neighbors up for movies...


Almost the best solution, even though some neighbors can still be jerks. Fortunately for me I'm in a house and my neighbors haven't complained once. Unfortunately I think that's because my sub isn't capable of going through all the walls and being felt in their house.

I'd say the best solution is for the neighbors to bring over food or popcorn since he's providing the audio/video entertainment


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Totally agree, the last apartment I was in was not at all sub friendly, the neighbors next door and upstairs both hated me to the point where I may as well have unplugged it. 3 days into my lease I received my 1st complaint, and my last night there I bid the neighbors a fond farewell with a full length listening session of rage against the machine. My current place only has one shared wall and nobody above or below, and i am on very friendly terms with the neighbors and always make sure I don't disturb them. Subless with some towers and a center should do you up nicely.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

AndyInOC said:


> Totally agree, the last apartment I was in was not at all sub friendly, the neighbors next door and upstairs both hated me to the point where I may as well have unplugged it. 3 days into my lease I received my 1st complaint, and my last night there I bid the neighbors a fond farewell with a full length listening session of rage against the machine. My current place only has one shared wall and nobody above or below, and i am on very friendly terms with the neighbors and always make sure I don't disturb them. Subless with some towers and a center should do you up nicely.


Problem with Southern California and Coastal Florida is the large number of Retirees who move there. Wonderful folks though they may be, often many seldom leave their Homes and are not very tolerant of noises. Especially low, rumbling Bass...

I never got any sort of Complaint as I had great relations with the Management. However, it was so frustrating not to be able to listen to my HT at anywhere near my normal listening levels. Lesson learned.
I am glad you have a more tolerant living situation now.
Cheers,
JJ


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## mrbashfo (Oct 24, 2010)

I am from california, and never had a complaint. I guess it was because the people I lived next to were decently young. LOL However, if you believe your walls are pretty thin or if your neighbors are pretty old. I would suggest against a sub. Just get some decent floors. 

The popcorn machine idea is awesome! DO IT! lol
I am trying to get my gf to let me get one for fun -_-


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Believe it or not I was substantially older than both of the people that complained about me. The place had a "new money luxury living" feel and I think if the situation was to be examined closely part of their motivation was the fact that I had something they didn't. 

I am starting to think maybe the OP should have a full HT including a sub, feel the neighbors out, and if everyone is cool and comfortable then by all means have a movie night. It could turn into a really cool thing and a great way to make new friends.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

I just watched "Faster" and used Aud Dyn Vol for the first time. I don't have to worry about neighbors, but I have a wife who likes to listen at -25dB. All the way through the movie I was impressed with the sound quality, and it wasn't until right at the end I realized that DV had practically eliminated the dynamic range without ever leaving it feeling overly compressed. Even though it was played way too quiet for my liking, I was quite happy with the results.


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## mrbashfo (Oct 24, 2010)

AndyInOC said:


> Believe it or not I was substantially older than both of the people that complained about me. The place had a "new money luxury living" feel and I think if the situation was to be examined closely part of their motivation was the fact that I had something they didn't.
> 
> I am starting to think maybe the OP should have a full HT including a sub, feel the neighbors out, and if everyone is cool and comfortable then by all means have a movie night. It could turn into a really cool thing and a great way to make new friends.


That actually sounds like a great idea! I am only 22 right now so my neighbors at the time which was a couple months ago were approx. 30s. I just made sure to not listen or watch movies too early or too late at night.


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