# Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.



## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

I have been thinking about picking up a Denon AVR-4311 to use as a pre-pro until I eventually get back into a separate pre-pro. I personally feel there are too many bugs in the current crop of pre-pro's and just want something reliable for now.

The main reason the 4311 caught my eye is the new Audyssey XT32 and the built in SubEQ that is essentially the same as the standalone subEQ and handles 2 subs separately for distance and levels then EQ's them as a whole. I know the Onkyo DHC-80.2 has this same feature but I have read about some people having issue's with loud relay clicks and other bugs, I just don't have the free time right now to put up with that.

I am hoping that some user's of the AVR-4311 can chime in and let me know if there are any major bugs or if it's relatively stable. How it sounds and how you like it would also be much appreciated.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

The AVR-4311 is an exciting Product that has received a groundswell of discussion. I love that it offers the option of taking the Amplifiers offline. It also has an excellent Feature Set.

There have been Reports of "Blue Rain" Video Distortion and Audio Dropouts with some Units. I do think this will be resolved soon with Firmware Updates. 

I am not a big fan of the Remote Control as it lacks full Backlighting. Also, to me it does not have the appearance or Amplifier Section of a 2 Thousand Dollar AVR. That being said, it is an enticing SSP or Pre-Pro thanks to the Feature Set. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

Thanks for the info Jack,

I am not too crazy about the appearance as well but SQ and more importantly ease of use are what I need at the moment. 

if it wasn't for the bugs then I would pick one up right away, when are they going to finally make HDMI relatively bug free?


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I have been excited about the 4311 since it came out but have been holding out for awhile as i can't make up my mind to what i want, my 3808 has impressed me so much that i am not sure which direction to take. I don't think you can go wrong with that buy. Let us know what you do.:T


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

The 3808 is an excellent receiver and my brother still loves it after he bought mine. The only reason for you to upgrade would be if you want the new Audyssey XT32 and 3D.

Have you heard anything about the 4311 having quirks? The 3808 was solid for the month I had it in my system and my brother hasn't had any problems.

I really started to think about the 4311 as it has the new SubEQ with dual sub outs. I am a few weeks away from completing my LMS 18" sealed sub pair so having the best available subEQ is very tempting. I know the Onkyo's have it as well but the relay clicks and audio drop out's take it off my list.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

OK, I did just read about the Blue-Rain and audio drop-out issues some 4311 users are experiencing. I have to wonder if this is related to the Audyssey XT32 as the Onkyo's seem to suffer from audio drop-outs as well.

I am going to hold off on the 4311 now until I hear that they have corrected these problems via a firmware update or fixing them before they ship.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I have not heard anything about any quirks so far with the 4311, i know the 3808 is solid as a rock and one of the best purchases i have made, i'm still finding them for the same price i paid for mine.:bigsmile:
As far as the EQ i'm really not into using it so i guess thats why the basics of the 3808 keep me happy however i would like to have dual sub outs with independant control.:T


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



sub_crazy said:


> I have been thinking about picking up a Denon AVR-4311 to use as a pre-pro until I eventually get back into a separate pre-pro. I personally feel there are too many bugs in the current crop of pre-pro's and just want something reliable for now


? 

I'm curious what the bugs you've heard of are in the AV7005.

If it's a matter of XT32 and SubEQ though, I understand. Although if that's your only reason for upgrading, the SVS AS-EQ1 seems to do that and probably with better results.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



GranteedEV said:


> ?
> 
> I'm curious what the bugs you've heard of are in the AV7005.
> 
> If it's a matter of XT32 and SubEQ though, I understand. Although if that's your only reason for upgrading, the SVS AS-EQ1 seems to do that and probably with better results.


If the marantz had XT32 and the SubEQ then it would be on my very short list. I was thinking that the AS-EQ1 would give better results but someone sent me a link where Audyssey themselves said that the new SubEQ has the same resolution as the AS-EQ1 making it redundant in a system, I wish I knew were to find the link again but it was on the Audyssey website.

I was going to go with the Integra 80.2 but I have heard of a lot of users complaining of loud relay clicks and occasional audio drop-outs, it looks like the Denon suffers from audio drop-outs for some users as well.

I have a ton of work for the next month or 2 so may just re-visit this then, hopefully there will be firmware upgrades or better mfg. from Denon then to alleviate the bugs.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

On a side note I really considered the Classe SSP-800 but I am now a Audyssey convert. If Classe ever decides to upgrade there 800 to include Audyssey XT32 then my dealer will be very happy. 
I know it is a completely different price class but my previous favorite pre-pro was the Halcro SSP-220 which unfortunately had bugs that made me sell it. I still miss the SQ of that Halcro, the Integra 80.1 I have right now is good, but not as good.


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## phynigan (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I too have encountered this issue with my AVR-4311CI. Although it only appears to happen when the source is in two-channel stereo, I am still forced to restart the AVR each time it occurs. I have noticed this mostly when viewing On-Demand as Comcast transmits in two channel stereo most of the time.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

Just an update.

I just sold the Integra 80.1 and ordered the Denon 4311 to give it a go. I put my Onkyo 886P back in the main system and it doesn't have the pops of the 80.1 so I like it better.

I am going to cross my fingers from now until it shows up that the Denon doesn't suffer the same problems in my system.

I will give an update here on how the 4311 performs for me and compares to the Onkyo 886P.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



phynigan said:


> I too have encountered this issue with my AVR-4311CI. Although it only appears to happen when the source is in two-channel stereo, I am still forced to restart the AVR each time it occurs. I have noticed this mostly when viewing On-Demand as Comcast transmits in two channel stereo most of the time.


What problems exactly are you having? Any other problems with the 4311? Hows the sound quality?


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I find it such a shame that lots of folks are experiancing problems with these AVR's. It seems that both Denon and Onkyo have been plagued lately that it really makes for a tough decision on what brand AVR to go for these days.:dontknow:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



phynigan said:


> I too have encountered this issue with my AVR-4311CI. Although it only appears to happen when the source is in two-channel stereo, I am still forced to restart the AVR each time it occurs. I have noticed this mostly when viewing On-Demand as Comcast transmits in two channel stereo most of the time.


This is in keeping with almost all of the Reports I have read about Audio Dropouts. Are you also experiencing the "Purple Rain" video distortion?

SC, it is Audio Dropouts almost exclusively occuring on 2.0 Sources and incidents of Video Distortions that are affecting a number of 4311's.
JJ


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I am just going to cross my fingers that I am one of the lucky ones with no audio drop-outs or Purple Rain, never been a big Prince fan

What I don't understand is why previous generations of these pre-pro's and receivers worked so much better? My brother still has my old Denon 3808 and it works flawlessly. I have heard from a good enough amount of 4311 users that don't have those problems so I am rolling the dice.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



bambino said:


> I find it such a shame that lots of folks are experiancing problems with these AVR's. It seems that both Denon and Onkyo have been plagued lately that it really makes for a tough decision on what brand AVR to go for these days.:dontknow:


+1

When did they stop with the quality control and have there customers become the beta users?


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



sub_crazy said:


> I am just going to cross my fingers that I am one of the lucky ones with no audio drop-outs or Purple Rain, never been a big Prince fan
> 
> What I don't understand is why previous generations of these pre-pro's and receivers worked so much better? My brother still has my old Denon 3808 and it works flawlessly. I have heard from a good enough amount of 4311 users that don't have those problems so I am rolling the dice.


I have the same thoughts on my mind as i also have the 3808 for several years now and have never encounterd a glitch.:scratch:


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

The 3808 is a great receiver and my brother still raves about it. I only sold it to him since he heard it in my system and was hooked.

If I were you I would probably just hold onto the 3808 until next years models to see if they ironed out all the bugs.


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## macmovieman (Dec 7, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I use my 4308 as a pre pro and I too am considering the 4310 so I will be watching this thread closely.


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## phynigan (Jul 24, 2006)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I have not had any "purple/blue rain" but did recently notice a slight pop/vibration when powering up once or twice in the past few months. The 2 channel audio loss still occurs, I say again, audio LOSS. I have mistakenly been referring to this as an audio drop, that's incorrect. The signal is completely lost when this occurs and the AVR must be "reset/triggered" to regain audio.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I would choose a 4308 over a 4311. I believe the 3808 and 4308 are endowed with stronger Amplifier Sections than the 4311 and are more stable. I also greatly prefer the Remote Controls on these Models.

Unless 3D is a high priority, I would pick those Models. Also, the AVR-4308 looks like a 2K AVR.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



Jungle Jack said:


> I would choose a 4308 over a 4311. I believe the 3808 and 4308 are endowed with stronger Amplifier Sections than the 4311 and are more stable. I also greatly prefer the Remote Controls on these Models.
> 
> Unless 3D is a high priority, I would pick those Models. Also, the AVR-4308 looks like a 2K AVR.
> Cheers,
> JJ


2 great AVR's indeed!:T I don't believe they still make the 3808 but not sure about the 4308:dontknow:. For fun i did a search on the 3808 and found one refurb for i think $500 all the others i found were new but were fetching retail prices for them, i couldn't believe that as a year ago when i was looking for another 3808 they were in $900 range.:dontknow:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



bambino said:


> 2 great AVR's indeed!:T I don't believe they still make the 3808 but not sure about the 4308:dontknow:. For fun i did a search on the 3808 and found one refurb for i think $500 all the others i found were new but were fetching retail prices for them, i couldn't believe that as a year ago when i was looking for another 3808 they were in $900 range.:dontknow:


While I love the Features on the 4311, the 08's had a solidity that I find lacking in the newest Models. What is even more distressing is that Denon is not planning on replacing the 4810 or 5308 due to Economic Reasons and the breakneck speed of Technology Updates.

This leaves the 4311 as the current Flagship. An AVR that weighs less than the AVR-3808 while offering 2 additional Amplifier Channels. In truth, if not for the distressing number of issues I have read about, I could get past the de-contenting of the Amplifier Section. Though it still bothers me as it is a 2000 Dollar AVR.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I do plan on using the 4311 as a pre-pro so not too concerned about the amp section. 

The biggest reason for getting the 4311 for me is the Audyssey XT32 which also includes the SubEQ for 2 separate subs. Would have gone for the Integra 80.2 but had a bad experience with the 80.1 so a move to Denon was the only other way to get XT32.

I should get my 4311 by Thursday so I am gonna cross my fingers now. I will report back here in a week or so when I really have a feel for the receiver. I will still have my Onkyo 886P on hand to compare which has never given me a problem, at least not before I just jinxed myself:doh:


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## fookoo_2011 (Dec 8, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

I have had the 4311CI for about five weeks. It is my first venture into higher end AVR's and it certainly did not disappoint. The main pluses for me are: Audyssey MultEQ XT32, Sub EQ HT, easy to setup 9.2 system (once you figure it out), Audyssey DSX, discrete amp's to drive 9 speakers supposedly at 140 watts each, and 7 x 1.4a HDMI inputs. The floor wide speakers are a big plus over a 7.2 system and easily can simulate a theater experience. It is easy to run the setup and it is easy to rerun it through 8 positions and takes < 10 minutes. The major drawback for me is the manual that is difficult to understand for the first time user venturing into a higher end AVR. Another drawback is the 4311's rectangular screen that has letters and numbers that are small and not easily seen seven to eight feet back from the HDTV. The room acoustic corrections are nothing short of amazing. I use this home theater system to primarily watch films and preferably Blu-ray's. The first firmware update took about 23 minutes via an ethernet connection in the rear of the 4311. I haven't experienced any of the problems such as blue rain or audio dropouts. This is a great and super cool AVR and it would be next to impossible for me to settle for anything less.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



fookoo_2011 said:


> I have had the 4311CI for about five weeks. It is my first venture into higher end AVR's and it certainly did not disappoint. The main pluses for me are: Audyssey MultEQ XT32, Sub EQ HT, easy to setup 9.2 system (once you figure it out), Audyssey DSX, discrete amp's to drive 9 speakers supposedly at 140 watts each, and 7 x 1.4a HDMI inputs. The floor wide speakers are a big plus over a 7.2 system and easily can simulate a theater experience. It is easy to run the setup and it is easy to rerun it through 8 positions and takes < 10 minutes. The major drawback for me is the manual that is difficult to understand for the first time user venturing into a higher end AVR. Another drawback is the 4311's rectangular screen that has letters and numbers that are small and not easily seen seven to eight feet back from the HDTV. The room acoustic corrections are nothing short of amazing. I use this home theater system to primarily watch films and preferably Blu-ray's. The first firmware update took about 23 minutes via an ethernet connection in the rear of the 4311. I haven't experienced any of the problems such as blue rain or audio dropouts. This is a great and super cool AVR and it would be next to impossible for me to settle for anything less.


Hello,
I am so glad to read of your great experience with the 4311. I gave this AVR.l serious consideration as the Feature Set is fantastic and I love the Preamp Mode as I use external Amplification.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

the 4311 was installed on Monday night and so far so good. I haven't been able to put much time into listening to it yet but no audio drop-outs or purple rain and the HDMI switching is a LOT faster than the Onkyo/Integra pre-pro's and no annoying relay clicks either. 

I did notice that the Audyssey calibration seems to go by a lot quicker, not sure if this is a XT32 upgrade or just a Denon implementation. I can't really say it sounds better than the Integra DHC-80.1 or Onkyo 886P it replaced, it sorta sounds different but I have only listened for a couple of hours so far. It may sound a little more lean than the Onkyo/Integra, I am using it in pre-pro mode so it's definitely not the amps which are adding to the sound. I plan on trying out the internal amps as well just to make sure it works OK and to give it a listen that way.

So far I really do like the ergonomics and lack of quirks so far, definitely a step up from Onkyo/Integra. 

I will report back on this thread if any quirks or updates, probably won't be until after Christmas though.

Everyone have a Happy Holliday Season:dancebanana:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*



sub_crazy said:


> the 4311 was installed on Monday night and so far so good. I haven't been able to put much time into listening to it yet but no audio drop-outs or purple rain and the HDMI switching is a LOT faster than the Onkyo/Integra pre-pro's and no annoying relay clicks either.
> 
> I did notice that the Audyssey calibration seems to go by a lot quicker, not sure if this is a XT32 upgrade or just a Denon implementation. I can't really say it sounds better than the Integra DHC-80.1 or Onkyo 886P it replaced, it sorta sounds different but I have only listened for a couple of hours so far. It may sound a little more lean than the Onkyo/Integra, I am using it in pre-pro mode so it's definitely not the amps which are adding to the sound. I plan on trying out the internal amps as well just to make sure it works OK and to give it a listen that way.
> 
> ...


Mike,
Congrats on your new acquisition and I am glad to read that you are pleased with it. And a Merry Christmas to you and your Family.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

Thanks JJ,

A Merry Christmas to you and your family as well.

I hope you get a lot of A/V goodies for Christmas:T


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## americano (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

dear friends.
I'm having problems with my AVR 4311, all outputs of picture is distorted. I am conducting a survey and not sure of the term used, but I think it's "Purple Rain. "
I swapped all cables analog video, HDMI and no all out with a good picture, everybody gets a distorted picture with yellow or blue lines vertically and almost not to see the image.
Anybody here has seen this place, they would inform me and update resolves the problem or only a technical assistance?
I am very worried because time is running out of warranty!

I thank you all and a happy 2011

R. Anderson:wave:


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

Sorry to hear your having the Blur Rain problem Americano.

From what I have read on other forums is it's a hardware problem on some 4311's and it needs to be taken to a Denon repair center for a new HDMI board. You should contact Denon to set-up a repair.

How long have you had the 4311 before the blue rain showed up?


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

Just an update on my 4311, so far it's a great piece and no issues to speak of.

I still need to try out the internal amps to make sure they function and curious about how they sound. I plan on adding my second sub sometime this week and will experiment with adding the DSX wide channels. 

Anyone use either the new wide and/or height channels and care to comment on any tips?


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## americano (Jul 19, 2010)

*Re: Any Denon AVR-4311CI users and your thoughts.*

mike, thanks for the help!
I have that equipment there 02 months and the guarantee here in Brazil is only 03 months since we have no official distributor here, so the product being imported betting on luck, but ...
On the first day, so I called to make the setup, after 20 minutes appeared to interference in the picture and never left again, reset it and so even after 05 minutes again in a distorted picture.
That bad news, we have no where to turn here in Brazil, we have no assistance allowed here.
You know you tell me if there is already upgrading to this receiver?
and that the change it brings?

once again thanks for the help, Mike

Big hug!


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## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi,

The "blue rain" issue was adressed with the latest firmware. Did you update your 4311?...

Most of the issues seem to be fixed with firmware, like blue rain and audio drop-outs. Other forums report that their 4311's now work as they should.

Dimitri.


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## GollyJer (Feb 5, 2008)

Before getting the 4311 I was using the recommended REW + Beringer FBQ2496 + ECM 8000 + Xenyx802 for room calibration. 
I'm extremely happy with the 4311 built in Audyssey XT32 calibration.

Could there possibly be a benefit to using the ECM 8000 + Xenyx802 as a replacement for the microphone that comes with the 4311?


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## americano (Jul 19, 2010)

Dimitri good day,
My problem appeared during the configuration set-up, the first 20 minutes.
Was sent to technical assistance agency, my board was defective, because now the Denon focused almost all the features of the product in a single plate, and when there is a problem to replace the entire board, however the manufacturer has direct access to hardware software and the receiver via the web, if you need some small repair and upgrade solution they provide.
Do not know yet if this change was for better or worse, we'll wait a little longer!
My unit has not yet arrived, because only the Denon has this board and hoping to get this assistance.
The manufacturer already makes available the latest update to fix the Blue rain
service denon com need login and password for the sole way.
grateful


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## golfnut (Jan 23, 2009)

The wides are great! Try them and you will find a greatly expanded front stage. You will find hear more benefit from wides than from backs. My current configuration is 5.1 plus wides and the wife even commented that it sounds good


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## ghstudio (Jul 27, 2007)

GollyJer said:


> Before getting the 4311 I was using the recommended REW + Beringer FBQ2496 + ECM 8000 + Xenyx802 for room calibration.
> I'm extremely happy with the 4311 built in Audyssey XT32 calibration.
> 
> Could there possibly be a benefit to using the ECM 8000 + Xenyx802 as a replacement for the microphone that comes with the 4311?


NO! There is a built in calibration curve that matches the Denon provided microphone. Don't try to use any other microphone to do the automatic Audyssey calibration on the 4311 (or any other audyssey processor).


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## GollyJer (Feb 5, 2008)

ghstudio said:


> NO! There is a built in calibration curve that matches the Denon provided microphone. Don't try to use any other microphone to do the automatic Audyssey calibration on the 4311 (or any other audyssey processor).


That was my intuition given I enjoy the calibration with the Denon included mic so much. Thanks for the verification ghstudio. :T


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

I just got my new 4311ci, replacing my 3808ci. I’m not sure that I needed to upgrade, but I like my 4311 (and by brother is excited about his 3808). The MulitEQ XT 32 and Sub EQ helped me to decide. Especially, since I was looking for something to EQ my pair of subs. My system never sounded so good and I'm loving some of the new features. So far, I’ve not experienced any problems, but haven’t tried everything, yet. In fact, I haven’t even updated the firmware, yet. The amp section isn’t as strong as I would like, but I use a Rotel 1080 for the mains. The plan is to add another external, later. But for now, this is just fine.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If used solely as a Preamp, there are not many finer AVR's to use in that capacity as it even offers a Preamp Only Mode where the Amplifiers are turned offline. However, indeed the 3808 has a more powerful Amplifier Section. Not surprising considering the 3808 weighs the same if not more while offering 2 fewer Channels. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

The 3808 is really an impresive AVR:T. I'll be sad the day i let it go to the front room where my wife will have control of it as i am still up in the air as to what i'll get next.:crying:


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

I really like the fact that the 4311 has the pre amp mode. It seems like the high-end processors don’t have all these features, so you could look at it like a medium range pre-pro. I guess I’m still impressed by the bells and whistles. Beside the Audyssey MQ XT32, I really like the improved internet radio. It seems to search and tune faster, along with giving more information. Then there’s .flac decoding and better interfacing with my Win 7 computers. The HD Radio is nice, but I’m not sure how much use that’ll get. More HDMI inputs and 2 Monitor Outputs are a nice feature, for future additions. On the downside – there’s NO Backlight on the remote. Could I have been just as happy with my 3808ci? Probably – Maybe? The one who’s really happy – My Brother. He loves it when I get compulsive upgraditis.
Oh, wow! I just saw the announcement that the 5308ci and A1HDci will be soon be upgraded (cost to be announced) to XT32, DSX, Dolby PLIIz and 3D pass-through, all of which the 4311ci has now. So for those wanting these features and better amp or processor, this might be exciting news. More details to come in September if you can wait.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The no Backlight on the Remote is unacceptable to me for a 2000 Dollar AVR. However, I still love the Feature Set. What is weird is that older Denon's at almost half the price offered Backlighting. Oh well...
Cheers,
JJ


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## ColorPatch (Feb 22, 2011)

leej said:


> On the downside – there’s NO Backlight on the remote.





Jungle Jack said:


> The no Backlight on the Remote is unacceptable to me for a 2000 Dollar AVR. However, I still love the Feature Set. What is weird is that older Denon's at almost half the price offered Backlighting. Oh well...


Hi Guys,
My first post here on Home Theater Shack.

I just purchased a Denon AVR-4311ci. The main remote control that came with it is RC-1145, and it most certainly does have a backlight. There's a big "BACKLIGHT" button at the very bottom. I'd post a picture of it, but I don't have enough posts yet to be able to include images. However, the button is clearly visible in the diagram on page 123 of the user manual. (The second remote, the RC-1148 "Sub Remote", for use in the zones does not have a backlight.)


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Glad to be mistaken about the Remote Control as it would be absurd for a 2K AVR not to offer Backlighting. I had read so many people say it did not that I did not investigate it further. I am quite fond of the Feature Set and if using Amplifiers, think it would be an awesome SSP.
Cheers,
JJ


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

ColorPatch said:


> Hi Guys,
> My first post here on Home Theater Shack.
> 
> I just purchased a Denon AVR-4311ci. The main remote control that came with it is RC-1145, and it most certainly does have a backlight. There's a big "BACKLIGHT" button at the very bottom. I'd post a picture of it, but I don't have enough posts yet to be able to include images. However, the button is clearly visible in the diagram on page 123 of the user manual. (The second remote, the RC-1148 "Sub Remote", for use in the zones does not have a backlight.)


Thanks! I finally found the button :dohso many) after I posted this. I expected it to light up when I used the remote. I couldn't believe that they had left this off. I was gald to find the button and put away my flashlight.


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## stenizo (Feb 2, 2011)

My Denon 4311CI also misbehaved after the first hour of use with intermittent audio loss and drifting video. I decided to do an update of the firmware and the problem went from bad to worse. The video totally disappeared. Decided to have it exchanged today and I am hoping that the replacement will be issues-free. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.


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## stenizo (Feb 2, 2011)

Just a follow-up to my above post....

I was able to exchange my unit with a new one. So far so good even though I haven't done the firmware update yet. I am having second thoughts about updating the firmware for fear that the issues might start surfacing and go the fate of my first unit. So, until I encounter the known issues of blue rain, audio loss and drifting video, I will leave it as is.

Last night I decided to incorporate my SVS AS-EQ1 into the signal path for room correction and I believe there's audible improvement. As you know MULTEQ XT32 only allows for 8 positions for room correction unless you get a licensed installer to upgrade your software to MULTEQ Pro which would then do room correction up to 32 positions. The EQ-1 (version 3.2) enables you to do room correction up to 32 positions and you don't need a certified installer to do it - you can do it yourself as I did.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I am so glad you received a stable unit. I have been surprised with the issues that the 4311's have had. I realize they have addressed almost all of the initial problems, but Denon charges a pretty stiff premium over competing Brands with the expectation being a trouble free experience. Hopefully, all of this is in the Rear View Mirror.
Cheers,
JJ


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

After reading the owners manual on Denon's site I still can't figure out if after you run Audyssey, can you take that curve and "copy" it into the manual side and see/adjust what its done? I'm trying to compare this 4311, the Onkyo TX-NR3008 and the Yamaha Aventage 3000 which allows you to do it (copy eq curve from YPAO into manual, examine the corrections and tweak till your hearts content).


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I am pretty sure Denon's implementation of Audyssey is not tweakable. There are choices of whether or not you want a Flat Curve or Default Curve. 

With Onkyo's, you cannot manually select a Flat Curve, but can have one by selecting a THX Mode (Flat Curve Mandatory), and turning off RE EQ. Some Companies like NAD actually have there very own Audyssey Designed Curve, but most do not.

I have been quite happy with the Flat Curve and is why I use THX almost exclusively on my Onkyo TX-NR3007.
If you want more direct EQ control, you can always use the Parametric EQ that is offered on most AVR's, but lose the Time and Phase Alignment you reap from using Audyssey.

If memory serves, with Pioneer's proprietary MCACC you can tweak it, but MCACC does not work on the Subwoofer. Same goes for Yamaha's YPAO. Audyssey is the opposite in that on MultEQ on up the lions share of available Processing Power goes to the Subwoofer where most Room Anomalies manifest and is why I have found Audyssey to be the best of the Room EQ's I have used. I am intrigued by Trinnov, but have never had it setup in my HT.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

It has been awhile and i also do not use Audessy, but i believe if memory serves me correctly on my Denon 3808 it is possible to do a copy. This weekend i may just have to get the mic out and try it just for fun. (that is if i can get the house quiet enough with the twins going and all).:bigsmile:


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## stenizo (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi Folks,

I would appreciate your comment on this room correction results. Thanks.


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## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi,

You could purchase the audyssey pro kit. This way you could tweak your response.

It will cost ya around 700$.

Dimitri


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## ColorPatch (Feb 22, 2011)

hearingspecialist said:


> After reading the owners manual on Denon's site I still can't figure out if after you run Audyssey, can you take that curve and "copy" it into the manual side and see/adjust what its done?


You can copy the Audyssey EQ curve into the Manual EQ to make adjustments there, but Manual EQ is only a limited parametric equalizer, not adjustment to the actual Audyssey curves. Effectively, you are disabling Audyssey when you use the Manual EQ. Unless you get the Audyssey Pro kit.


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## stenizo (Feb 2, 2011)

Hi Dimitri,

Thanks for the response. Where can I buy the pro kit and what else can I do to improve the response. Ideally, how should the graph look like. I think I first need to understand what the graph represents so that I can then do some improvements. Would you be able to interpret the graph for me?

Thanks in advance.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If you go to Audyssey.com, you should find a Locator where you can enter your Zip Code. As part of that amount is a License to unlock Audyssey Pro, the Website definitely is the place to start. Audyssey Pro is an amazing thing with the ability to measure at so many points that it really is taking it to another level.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

The after graph that Audyssey shows you is what you want, a flat response. Looks like your subs begin to roll off about 17hz which is very respectable.

What Audyssey attempts to do is to tame peaks in response so that you are hearing as as many frequency's at the same level. Your before graph shows that your response from about 30hz down to the point your subwoofer rolls off is higher than the other frequency's.

There really is nothing to interpret from your after graph except the roll off point I mentioned above. Since you are using the sub EQ then it only really shows the response from about 150hz and below.

You should look through the Room EQ Wizard thread located here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/

REW is a very nice measurement program that will show the frequency response of you system. It does take some time, patience and additional equipment to measure your system but it is available for free here at HTS.

Audyssey Pro is a great tool but if you are not too keen on learning how to use it and purchasing the installers kit then you can find a Pro installer on Audyssey's website like JJ already mentioned. 

I think I answered your question but if not then let me know exactly what you wanted to know.


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## stenizo (Feb 2, 2011)

sub_crazy said:


> The after graph that Audyssey shows you is what you want, a flat response. Looks like your subs begin to roll off about 17hz which is very respectable.
> 
> What Audyssey attempts to do is to tame peaks in response so that you are hearing as as many frequency's at the same level. Your before graph shows that your response from about 30hz down to the point your subwoofer rolls off is higher than the other frequency's.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response sub_crazy.
I am actually keen on learning how to use the installer kit. I live in Canada and I don't think there's any dealer that sells it. I am willing to import it from the States though. Do you know of any dealer that sells this?


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## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

stenizo said:


> Hi Dimitri,
> 
> Thanks for the response. Where can I buy the pro kit and what else can I do to improve the response. Ideally, how should the graph look like. I think I first need to understand what the graph represents so that I can then do some improvements. Would you be able to interpret the graph for me?
> 
> Thanks in advance.


Well, you've got a flat response now, but you might want to introduce a house curve. In the regular consumer version of audyssey it creates the filters and that's that. With pro you can tailor it to your own preference. I'd like to get the pro version for my 4311 but I think it's a bit expensive.

The pro kit comes with software and hardware I believe, (professional microphone with pre-amp). You'll need a laptop to run the software. It's done externally with pro.


Dimitri.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

stenizo said:


> Thanks for the response sub_crazy.
> I am actually keen on learning how to use the installer kit. I live in Canada and I don't think there's any dealer that sells it. I am willing to import it from the States though. Do you know of any dealer that sells this?


I am planning on getting the Pro kit my-self so I can let you know.

Not only do you need the kit but then you need to purchase the Audyssey Pro license to unlock it directly from Audyssey for $150. This license only works for the receiver you bought it for and if you change to a different receiver or pre-amp you need to buy a new $150 license to unlock Pro.

You really should start familiarizing your-self with the purpose of EQ and the proper way to implement it. The REW forum I linked to earlier is a good place to start and there are a lot of other useful information throughout this forum.


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## stenizo (Feb 2, 2011)

sub_crazy said:


> I am planning on getting the Pro kit my-self so I can let you know.
> 
> .


Please do. I'd appreciate it very much.


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

I've had my 4311 for a while, now and was very satisfied with the results of Audyssey XT32. I’d heard that others were seeing strange results, earlier, with higher frequencies being boosted to extremes. I had no such problem and was very happy, until I made a couple of minor changes to the room and surround locations, along with different L&R surround speakers. I changed from CDM 1nt's to some B&W CDM snt wall hangers to raise my surrounds to a higher level. I was surprised by the results. Frequencies just under 1K and up are maxed out, over +10db and more, while slightly reduced between 80 and 900 hz, at an average of about -3db. Overall, the sound is harsh. I measured again, with very little change. I just wonder why there is SO much difference from the first time I ran audyssey. Anyone experience such results?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

leej said:


> I've had my 4311 for a while, now and was very satisfied with the results of Audyssey XT32. I’d heard that others were seeing strange results, earlier, with higher frequencies being boosted to extremes. I had no such problem and was very happy, until I made a couple of minor changes to the room and surround locations, along with different L&R surround speakers. I changed from CDM 1nt's to some B&W CDM snt wall hangers to raise my surrounds to a higher level. I was surprised by the results. Frequencies just under 1K and up are maxed out, over +10db and more, while slightly reduced between 80 and 900 hz, at an average of about -3db. Overall, the sound is harsh. I measured again, with very little change. I just wonder why there is SO much difference from the first time I ran audyssey. Anyone experience such results?


Hello,
MultEQ XT has been consistent when moving things around, but I actually have heard of issues like yours with XT32. As I do not have an XT32 Processor yet, I cannot speak from personal experience.

Have you tried both the Flat Curve and the Denon Curve? Also, have you listened without Audyssey engaged? As my Room Acoustics are pretty good, I have actually been using Dolby Volume lately which mandates turning off MultEQ and have been quite happy.

Also, do you have an SPL Meter? Every time I have run Audyssey, it has Measured well below 75db's on each Channel. I always have to raise the Levels and change the Crossover to 80hz for all Channels after preforming MultEQ. I hope it eventually sounds to your liking and regret that you are not currently enjoying the SQ.
Cheers,
JJ


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

Both Denon and Flat curves are like this. The difference between Audyssey and none is so wide, now. Before it was much more subtle, but definately desirable. Something must have happened between the first time and now. I'm hoping tech support might help, because I really liked the first results. I wish I hadn't re-measured.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Provided it sounds good without Audyssey, run with it for now. At some point especially when bored, rerun it and make double sure the A/C is off and try to minimize as much Ambient Noise as humanely possible. Also, using a Tripod really helps to get the best results out of Audyssey as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

my room need much treatment. without audyssey, it's ok, but was much better with the original measurments. I did use a boom, turned off the AC and fridge and followed the exact proceedure as the original measurments. 
Looking at these graphs, I think the mike may be bad. I may need to contact Denon.


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## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Leej,

That definitely looks like a bad mic. There was one mention on the AVS forums which had simulair results and after audyssey checked the mic, it indeed was defective. It's strange that your previous sound(with the same mic.) was satisfactory though.

When using XT32 be sure to point the tweeters of your speakers directly at the mic. When the tweeters go to far off-axis, audyssey will boost the h**k out of them. Also measure in a relatively small area.

It could well be that your new wallspeakers cannot be pointed enough(or not at all) for audyssey to accurately measure them. And that's when audyssey feels the need for severe boosting. I've been thinking about getting Bi-polars for my monitor audio setup, but this issue makes me wonder if it will give me the best results.

In my experience over the past 6 months in which I auditioned many speaker brands, I've found out that one gets very different results in using different speakers, and some speaker don't seem to get along with audyssey...

I hope it's a busted mic.

Dimitri.


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

I think I learned something from all of this. If you decide to place a cap over the mike to protect it, make sure that it doesn't look like part of the mike. I used a cap from an old fountain pen to protect the mike, while stored. I didn't remember doing so and it looked like it belonged there, except for a few marks, as though I had held it im my teeth. I know this is a bad habit of mine with pens, but i never bit the mike. After removing and re-measuring, all is well.
So, Yes! The mike was not working properly.
Thanks for all of the imput.
Lee


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I have never heard of protecting the Microphone like that as I have always just but it back in the little white box, but I am so glad that was the culprit and you are now able to fully enjoy XT32. Great news and I will definitely remember to ask others who have similar issues if perhaps they too protected their Audyssey Microphone and perhaps forgot to take it off.
Cheers,
JJ


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

I guess you can underatand my relief, as embarrassing as it is. At least I learned how to save my configuration, for future changes. Those were some awful looking graphs. I like these much better?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Denon has such a slick Interface. Also, Tea for the Tillerman is an excellent album. Who woulda thought the direction Cat Stevens went. There is nothing wrong with it, but certainly much different path than most American/European Musicians.
Cheers,
JJ


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

As I listen, now, I seem to find some hints. There was always some spirituallity in his songs. I only wish he had kept on making music - a real calssic!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It appears that he almost drowned and promised to radically change his life if he survived. It really seems like he has done that. I am just happy he is now preforming some of his earlier Songs again.
Cheers,
JJ


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