# Best Sub for 300$.



## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

*Best Sub for 300$?*

Hey I'm new to the forums and reading through some of the posts I can tell a lot of you know what your talking about and seem open to helping, so I decided to join. I am very new to the home audio scene and started off with a htib system.. I kept the receive and upgraded my fronts to Polk Audio Monitor 60's and my center channel to the Polk Audio Monitor II. My receiver puts out 150 watts per channel and fills my room great but my sub is just horrible. Its some bull yamaha pushing 120 watts with an 8 inch driver.. With the bass up on the fronts I cant even tell if my sub is on or not, its just drowned with my new speakers. I am on a budget so I cant spend more then 300 dollars.. I have been looking at the Polk Audio Psw505 which is a 12 400 watt subwoofer and think it will be sufficient.. Just want a few opinions.


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## goonstopher (Mar 2, 2009)

If you're willing to be patient and a little adventurous you could get a used mfw-15... thats my plan


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

The MFW-15 is a good sub, but the only ones I can recommend to anyone have the latest V3 amplifier. The used market is a good place to look for bargains, have a look through our classifieds section, jamesfrazier. 

New subs under $300, look to BIC F12, PL-200, or V-1220. You could probably fit two in your budget if you shop around.

Or you can build a DIY sub.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

tesseract said:


> The MFW-15 is a good sub, but the only ones I can recommend to anyone have the latest V3 amplifier. The used market is a good place to look for bargains, have a look through our classifieds section, jamesfrazier.
> 
> New subs under $300, look to BIC F12, PL-200, or V-1220. You could probably fit two in your budget if you shop around.
> 
> Or you can build a DIY sub.


So would a BIC sub do me better then a Polk Audio psw505? The prices are about the same and specs are very close... I have been searching around for awhile and haven't even heard of BIC America till joining these forums. Do you have any passed experience with a BIC sub? I have looked into each one of your suggestions and all seem to fit the budget and standard I want.. Just want a little more insight.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

I have no experience with either sub. The Polk subs that I have heard did not impressed me, and I was listening to their top of the line models. I have read many positive owner impressions about the BIC subs, especially the F12, and I am comfortable recommending them at this price range. BIC has been making speakers since 1973.

If it were my $300, I would shop around for an authorized dealer with the best price and get two BIC F12's. Two subs are not just for increasing SPL, they help smooth bass response throughout the room.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

I don't have experience with the BIC subs, but have seen them mentioned plenty of times regarding performance/price. A buddy of mine had a Polk 12" sub and honestly, it was made to be small over its ability to perform, as are many of the smaller/lower priced subs that you will see in box stores. Depending on room size and other constraints (wife approval factor, aka WAF), I'd recommend you consider saving for a capable sub, or two that you will be satisfied and not need to upgrade sooner than later, once again. This of course depends on what works best for you.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Pl-200 is what I am leaning towards.. But would two f-12's be better? Also this may be a stupid question but you can have two subs without a .2 receiver right?


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

tesseract said:


> If it were my $300, I would shop around for an authorized dealer with the best price and get two BIC F12's. Two subs are not just for increasing SPL, they help smooth bass response throughout the room.


The smoothing of in-room response is really nice: that is, if your room is situated that you can have them.

Those BICs look nice for the money. I'd second Tesseract's recommendation for two as both models employ 12" drivers along with similar volume and cabinet design (weight). Looks like you'll get double the displacement with a pair, with less distortion and port noise along with better response in room. Again, the ability to move your subs around for the best sound is critical, so having two subs potentially complicates things.

No problem with one sub out: I've got three subs on my 5.1 system. You can just use a connector to use both subs, and I think these BICs have phase switches and individual gains in the event you need them.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

jamesfrazier said:


> Pl-200 is what I am leaning towards.. But would two f-12's be better? Also this may be a stupid question but you can have two subs without a .2 receiver right?


Go two F12's if your room can accommodate them. One F12 is very similar to one PL-200. The difference appears to be finish and amplifier power. Two F12's will easily make up the difference as well as smooth the room. As Ironglen mentioned, two will complicate set up a bit, but I figured we can help you cross that bridge when you come to it. :help: Believe me, it is worth it, I will never have just one sub again.

You can have two subs with your receiver. You may need a Y-adapter RCA cable, the F12 also accepts speaker level inputs.

What is the receiver you are using?


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

I am on vacation and don't know the model number. It's no where near advanced.... Enough to push my polks to an almost painful level.. I am not at all familiar with cross over, phases, etc. I have of course looked around and read on it but I have played with it on my sub and it really is completely drowned by my fronts. The only place i can hear it is if I'm corner the sub is placed in. My listening area is very small but my room is very big. Ill try to "draw" what it looks like.

|x------| |-----|
| |---------- | |
| 
|---------------------- |


One side of my basement is the 'movie' area with our setup and the X is the corner the sub is in. it cant be more then a 15x15 room but again there is that open wall, don't know exact measurements. The couch is directly in the wall opposite of the sub and unless I am in that corner the sub is just silent. I have played with the cross over and the sub is just two quite to tell a difference. I am going to buy a sub within the next day or two and set it up when I get home. I really appreciate all the input from you guys and I'll definatly be back with questions on correct set up. I'm thinking about dual f-12's and will probably purchase them tomorrow. Ill update you guys, and again, thanks.

Drawing looks way different when I post. Just know that there are three walls, with an open wall with a wide hallway that opens to a same size room again with three walls.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Your receiver will work fine, no matter. I just wanted to know if there is a sub out RCA jack on it or not.

Your room description reinforces the need for 2 ported subs. Let us know what you get and we can help you get the most out of it. :T


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

tesseract said:


> Your receiver will work fine, no matter. I just wanted to know if there is a sub out RCA jack on it or not.
> 
> Your room description reinforces the need for 2 ported subs. Let us know what you get and we can help you get the most out of it. :T


What would be the best idea for inputs.. Do the make y split LFE cables?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes, a Y-adapter is no problem. What is in question is the output on the receiver.

I assume that you used RCA out(s) to the Yamaha sub? If so, was there a left and a right or a single LFE out?


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

tesseract said:


> Yes, a Y-adapter is no problem. What is in question is the output on the receiver.
> 
> I assume that you used RCA out(s) to the Yamaha sub? If so, was there a left and a right or a single LFE out?


Single LFE.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

You are good to go! Y-adapter single male to dual female out will connect two subs, if you choose to go that route.

Looks like this. http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio...rca-to-rca-y-cable-35-525-hg/prod35525HG.html


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Alright then. I'll let you know when I make my decision. Thanks Again


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Sounds good. I'll continue to look and make a decision within a couple days.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Ive decided on the 2 f-12's. That just seems the best for the money, I can get used ones from amazon for 169 a piece.. and I trust amazon more then ebay, also the shipping will be free. Once I get them and attempt to set them up ill let you know how they work for me. Thanks for all the help/suggestions!


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Sounds good- that's a return/refurbished unit? You can get really good deals on equipment that way.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

ironglen said:


> Sounds good- that's a return/refurbished unit? You can get really good deals on equipment that way.


Yep, they are returned units. If there is anything wrong I'm sure amazon will take care of me. I will purchase them Tuesday, get them Thursday and let you guys know how they do me. I am sure I will have some questions on set up. Oh and one question, does cord quality affect sound?


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Use a decent gauge wire depending on length and you should have no deficiencies: to give you an idea, I ran 16g throughout my home's walls/attic for 5.0, 14g for my 12" subs and 12g for the 18" sub. Enjoy!


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

jamesfrazier said:


> Oh and one question, does cord quality affect sound?


I would recommend using 2 shielded interconnect cables, male on both ends. Figure the distance from your receiver to where the subs will be installed, then add at least 3 ft. to allow for play. Don't forget the single male to dual female Y-adapter.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

ironglen said:


> Use a decent gauge wire depending on length and you should have no deficiencies: to give you an idea, I ran 16g throughout my home's walls/attic for 5.0, 14g for my 12" subs and 12g for the 18" sub. Enjoy!


:innocent: Forgot you'll have built-in plate amps! Yes, shielded interconnects- much better! :T


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

tesseract said:


> I would recommend using 2 shielded interconnect cables, male on both ends. Figure the distance from your receiver to where the subs will be installed, then add at least 3 ft. to allow for play. Don't forget the single male to dual female Y-adapter.


Well I waited to buy the subs and they went up 20 bucks.. so with the splitter, another cable and the 2 extra subs it came to about 400 bucks.. I just can't spend that. So I am going to go with one and If my job picks up I may just wait awhile and buy another one later. I'm no audiophile as you guys know :coocoo: and I'm sure one will do for the time being.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

One is much better than none. You can get a second one another day. Save, buy, then work your way up, that's how we do it. :spend:


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Would hooking both my yamaha and the new BIC be worth the 12$ splitter of would that just be a waste?
The yamaha is an 8 inch 100 watt sub.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

It would be a waste not to try it. Put the Yamaha nearfield, firing into the side or back of the listening chair. Might want to try facing it into a nearby wall instead. Multi subs take a lot more work than just one. You have to set levels and phase (delay) and...

The Yammy may or may not have an effect. The two subs may cancel each other at some frequencies and/or reinforce others, causing large nulls or peaks in the response. With a little luck and some work, you may find that they work well together smoothing the room.

Get it hooked up and we'll walk you through it. Do you have an SPL meter?


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

No, and do not even know what it is. You guys makes me feel stupid, ha. :blink:


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103667

You play test tones and use the meter to read the volume level of each. Record each reading, which you can track on graph paper or in an Excel spreadsheet. This graph will give you a picture of the sub/room response.

The SPL meter can also be used to make graphs with REW, which you can learn all about here at Home Theater Shack.

It is not something you have to do to play your subs, but it is a good education and will help you get the most out of them.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Just bought the cables and one sub and will be here Saturday. I'm going to try to set them up myself but if I need help ill for sure be back. Thanks for all the Suggestions and input from everyone, without it I probably would of wasted a good amount of money.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Well sub came in today and I'm breaking it in. Sounds great just out of the box but, set up wise... I'm lost. I have a cross over option on my receiver as well as my sub and have no clue what they should be set at. Sub is set as 80 as well as the crossover on my receiver. I have no clue what phase does either. I have moved it around and sounds best where I had my other. So can anyone give me some insight on setup??


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey Alex, use only the receiver crossover, then disable the plate amp crossover (it should have a switch). I suggest you try the other settings to see if you like one more, perhaps the 100hz if your main speakers are small (perhaps 5" mid/bass or smaller) or 60hz if they are larger/more capable. The phase switch can adjust for a discrepancy between the sound from the sub and your mains, with respect to time. Basically, if you change the switch, your low frequencies at your listening position will either increase or decrease depending on if the sound waves arrive at the same time.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

jamesfrazier said:


> Well sub came in today and I'm breaking it in. Sounds great just out of the box but, set up wise... I'm lost. I have a cross over option on my receiver as well as my sub and have no clue what they should be set at. Sub is set as 80 as well as the crossover on my receiver. I have no clue what phase does either. I have moved it around and sounds best where I had my other. So can anyone give me some insight on setup??


Crank the BIC Crossover Frequency all the way up (160?), this will effectively take it out of the way so that the receiver can do it's job. Set the BIC Phase for 0 degrees.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Alright I have it set up now, but is 80 crossover good? I honestly can't tell much difference when I play with it. I got polk monitor 60's which is three 5 1/2 drivers .


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

80 Hz is good. The receiver should be handling the crossover to the sub and the mains. What are you playing with, the BIC Crossover Frequency knob? It shouldn't have any effect using the LFE input, but do turn the control all the way to the right just in case.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Yes, I have been. Also the amp gets almost too hot to touch within 20 minutes of music...that can't be right?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Do you have the BIC Volume level turned up too high? Tell us what type of receiver do you have.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Yamaha ht 3063 and its set at about 7.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

The Yammy may be boosting frequencies to the sub. Make sure that all the DSP settings are OFF, including the Compressed Music Enhancer. Set the tone controls flat.


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Well, after a couple weeks of listening I have a final spot for my sub, and as I believe all the settings are correct and it's performing as good as it's going to get. It still is very hot only after a short period of music, but when I listen to music it's usually very loud.. If it becomes a serious problem I will just take it up with BIC. Thank you all for all your contributions, suggestions and help throughout this new process. I really appreciate it and will defiantly be back to ask more questions, and maybe even help out eventually..


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## oedius (Sep 10, 2011)

jamesfrazier said:


> Well, after a couple weeks of listening I have a final spot for my sub, and as I believe all the settings are correct and it's performing as good as it's going to get. It still is very hot only after a short period of music, but when I listen to music it's usually very loud.. If it becomes a serious problem I will just take it up with BIC. Thank you all for all your contributions, suggestions and help throughout this new process. I really appreciate it and will defiantly be back to ask more questions, and maybe even help out eventually..


 
I understand your situation. Due to budget constraints, I chose one BIC F-12 for my home theater about a year ago and have never regretted it. My listening area is fairly large ("great room"); approximately 12 x 25 with vaulted ceiling and opens up into kitchen area and hallway. I have a 7.1 system powered by a Denon 2310 with BIC DV62CLRs for mains & center speaker and four DV62si for surrounds & backs. My current F-12 sits "caddy-corner" off to one side of mains in corner of room. There is a fireplace on the other side of mains, instead of a corner, so I will either have to stack new F-12 on top of existing one or place subs on either side of center speaker between it and the mains.

About 30 minutes ago, I placed my Amazon order for an F-12, cable & Y-splitter. Should be here by Wednesday. Placement will be a challenge as my choices are very limited due to observance of "WAF". :whistling:

Edited to add: I am not buying another F-12 because I felt sound was lacking, but only because I have always wondered that if one sounds this good, how much better will duals sound.


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## zman (Jan 14, 2011)

oedius said:


> I understand your situation. Due to budget constraints, I chose one BIC F-12 for my home theater about a year ago and have never regretted it. My listening area is fairly large ("great room"); approximately 12 x 25 with vaulted ceiling and opens up into kitchen area and hallway. I have a 7.1 system powered by a Denon 2310 with BIC DV62CLRs for mains & center speaker and four DV62si for surrounds & backs. My current F-12 sits "caddy-corner" off to one side of mains in corner of room. There is a fireplace on the other side of mains, instead of a corner, so I will either have to stack new F-12 on top of existing one or place subs on either side of center speaker between it and the mains.
> 
> About 30 minutes ago, I placed my Amazon order for an F-12, cable & Y-splitter. Should be here by Wednesday. Placement will be a challenge as my choices are very limited due to observance of "WAF". :whistling:
> 
> Edited to add: I am not buying another F-12 because I felt sound was lacking, but only because I have always wondered that if one sounds this good, how much better will duals sound.


And how do they sound?


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

zman said:


> And how do they sound?


Would love to know as well. I am currently planning on buying another sub myself and would love to know if the difference is worth 180 bucks.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

I would spring for the second one. I have duals and will never have only one sub again. 

Advantages are little to no EQ, saving amp power for SPL, and bass throughout the entire room, not just one spot. :T


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