# The Avengers - Blu-ray Review



## Mike Edwards

[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=9251[/img] *Title: The Avengers
Starring: Robert Downey Jr., Chris Evans, Chris Hemsworth, Mark Ruffalo, Scarlett Johansson, Jeremy Renner
Directed by: Joss Whedon
Written by: Joss Whedon, Zak Penn
Studio: Disney
Rated: PG-13
Runtime: 143 minutes
Blu-Ray Release Date: September 25th, 2012* 
*Movie:* :4.5stars:
*Video:* :5stars:
*Audio:* :4.5stars: 
*Extras:* :4stars: 
*HTS Overall Score:*92.5




[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=9256[/img]*Summary*
Being a comic book fanboy since I was knee high to a grasshopper pretty much solidified the fact I WAS going to go see “The Avengers” when it came to the theaters this summer. I was a bit nervous going into the theater. Would it live up to the hype? Would this be just a gigantic mess of a film with sooooo many big names vying for screen time? Nothing like this has ever been done before in the superhero film genre. Marvel spent years creating the five films that came before, five films that fleshed out the beginnings of each and every superhero, five films that each set a stone in the path to “The Avengers”. I had loved each and every one of Marvel’s first 5 films since “Iron Man” hit theaters, so I was pretty confident that we wouldn’t have a stinker on our hands, but with so many main heroes all together on one screen... It would be a feat to create an environment where all the superheros could not only flex their muscles, but not feel disjointed and crowded. Thankfully, Joss Whedon not only met the hype, but he created a film that went above and beyond. It’s obvious to one and all that Joss put his heart and soul into the film. 

We begin the film with Loki (Tom Hiddleston) being sent from another world by a mysterious master to steal the Tesseract cube that Howard Stark dug up from the plane crash that iced Captain America (Chris Evans). Weilding a staff that has a blue energy glow very similar to the Tesseract itself, Loki wreaks havoc in S.H.I.E.L.D.’s base of operations and bends Hawkeye (Jeremy Renner) and Dr. Selvig (Stellan Skarsgard) to his will. With the Tesseract cube in Loki’s, Possession Col. Fury (Samuel L. Jackson) calls together a five person strike force, consisting of the world's most prominent super heroes to retrieve the cube and foil Loki’s plan: Captain America, the humble soldier; Iron Man, a carefree billionaire with a habit of liking to play alone; Thor, the brother of Loki and the most powerful warrior of Asgard; Bruce Banner (Mark Ruffalo), a scientist whose run-in with gamma radiation allows him to transform into a wild green rage monster, and Natasha Romanav (aka Black Widow) (Scarlett Johansson), a super spy from Russia. These super beings (because, let's face it, Thor isn't human) make up The Avengers, a group of people who can band together to fight the battles that regular humans can’t. There’s only one problem: they kind of can’t stand each other. In the course of their journey to catch Loki, they each have to come to grips with their own issues, finding out whether they can get over their personal demons in time to cooperate and save humanity from the worst threat it’s ever faced. 


[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=9254[/img]“The Avengers” has a simple concept that’s been done before: a rag tag group of people must overcome their differences and trust each other in order to become something greater as a whole. Been there, done that, a million times. What makes “The Avengers” so special is the labor of love that went into crafting this movie. The main introductions were all done in the previous five films, so we are left with much more time to flesh out the actual storyline for “The Avengers” instead of spending the first half of the movie introducing everyone and showing where they all came from. Each of the five "introductory" films had their own storylines, but each film set a piece of the framework so that each one of them culminated into this one cinematic event. Joss Whedon utilized every character to his or her maximum potential without pushing any of the characters to the side for a “favorite”. The banter between the Avengers was quick and actually witty (unlike most movie banter). Stark and Cap played against each other well - Stark as his usual arrogant self, mirrored by the frustrated Captain America. The newcomer this time around is Mark Ruffalo as Bruce Banner. Previously, Bruce was played by Edwards Norton, but due to issues beyond our control he was not able to resume his role for “The Avengers”. Personally I felt that Mark played a much more accurate Bruce than Edward did in the previous rendition. Mark had the “feel” of Bruce Banner down to a T, and meshed will with the rest of the crew as the self-tortured scientist who’s terrified, not of others, but of what he is capable of unwittingly unleashing. 

“The Avengers” has to be easily the most fun summer blockbuster that I’ve seen in years. The brilliance for this movie comes not from a technically impressive script, but rather the unique use of individual movies to weave stories that ultimately come together and create one giant movie of epic proportions. I went with at least 20 people to go see it at the theaters and each and every one of them came out with these big goofy grins on their faces excitedly jabbering about their experience. Some movies are meant to inspire, some movies are meant to educated, some are meant to make you think, and some…are just meant to have a good time. “The Avengers” certainly falls into this final category, and I for one had a blast watching it the first time, the second time and now for a third time on home video. 



*Rating:* 

Rated PG-13 for intense sequences of sci-fi violence and action throughout, and a mild drug reference



*Video* :5stars:

[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=9252[/img] All I can say is WOW!!!! Disney has out done themselves this time. This is by far THE most perfect picture I have ever seen for a live action film, even surpassing “Transformers : The Dark of the Moon” and my recently reviewed “Battleship” by a good margin. I spent a good amount of time hitting the rewind button during this review JUST so I could go back and marvel (excuse the pun) at the all the gorgeous detail with which I was being inundated. The fine detail is so apparent that I was able to see a miss stitch in Captain America’s costume as well as notice the dust trickling down Hawkeye’s bare arm during the final battle. I didn’t notice any blurring or out of focus shots; the entire film just looked extremely well-polished and clean from beginning to end. Colors were bright and flesh tones were smooth and accurate without any haloing or banding of any kind around face and body shots. Blacks were DEEP and inky, black crush was nowhere to be found and shadow detail was exceptional. I hate to sound like a gushing fool, but this is bar none the best looking Blu-ray that I’ve ever seen. I LOOKED for flaws and I looked hard; fortunately for us, I couldn’t find anything wrong with this picture whatsoever. Again, all I can say is WOW! Are you guys in for a treat. 









*Audio* :4.5stars:

[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=9253[/img] The Audio is no slouch either. This was an aggressive track in the theaters and this Blu-ray release replicates the theatrical experience perfectly. Energy blasts whistle by your ears utilizing the surrounds exceptionally well, explosions are DEEP and guttural, a helicopter crash near the beginning of the movie had my subs working hard and my pant legs vibrating. The LFE is not AS deep or aggressive as say “Transformers : Dark of the Moon”, but what it lacks in raw power it makes up in accuracy and balance. When it needs to, the bass gets loud and pounding, but it also can be very subtle and slide its way into a scene leaving more of a feeling than any audible bass frequencies. Dialogue is crisp and clean and centered right in the middle. The audio is balanced perfectly where the dialogue is heard without the necessity of turning the volume up during dialogue scenes, and down during action scenes. My only real nitpicky complaint that keeps the audio score from a perfect 5 is that I felt the surrounds could have been used a bit MORE than they were. Don’t get me wrong, the surrounds were used and used extensively but there was just this lack of PERFECT channel separation between the fronts and rears that had me give it a 4.5. Overall another FANTASTIC audio track by Disney.



[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/file.php?n=9255[/img]*Extras:* :4stars:

• Director Commentary with Joss Whedon
• Marvel One-Shot : Item 47
• Second Screen
• Gag Reel
• Deleted Scenes
• Soundgarden Music Video : Live to Rise
• A Visual Journey : Assembling the Ultimate Team









*Overall:* :4.5stars:

Fans of previous Marvel movies definitely need to see this film, as it’s the culmination of the last 6 years or so of this fantastic group of heroes. People who haven’t seen the previous five films may feel a little lost with some of the characters, but there is enough backstory that most people will feel comfortable within the first half an hour. I went in a little nervous since I’ve been burned by the hype machine before, but this time I was totally blown away. Outstanding visuals and just as outstanding audio coupled with an absolute BLAST of a time will make this a keepsake as 2012’s next most popular disc (theatrical earnings were over $1 Billion alone) probably until the next Batman movie hits Blu-ray. Either way, All I can say is GET IT!!!!


*Recommendation: Buy It! (or the Hulk will get angry)​*


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## bxbigpipi

I can't wait till this movie is released on bluray. It is going to be awesome. As soon as I saw it in theaters I couldn't wait for it to be released.


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## ALMFamily

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Thanks for the review Mike! :T

Totally agree - I do not go to the theater to watch movies more than once - with the exception of this one. Just loved the entire movie - been waiting for it to hit BR so I can get it the first day! :bigsmile:


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## JBrax

Thanks for another great review Mike. I can't wait for this one and had trouble not seeing it at IMAX when it was out. Definitely a blind buy for me.


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## tripplej

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Thanks for the review. The movie was worth the ticket price and the dvd will be as well. Definitely a dvd everybody would want to have in their collection.


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## ozar

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Thanks for the review, Mike! 

I've had this on pre-order for quite some time now and am very much looking forward to receiving and watching it. 

Will report back after that has happened...


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## jd371

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Thanks for the review. Definitetly being added to my collection. 1 of 3 movies I had to see this summer.


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## Dwight Angus

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Good review Mike. This is a day one blind buy for me


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## Mike Edwards

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

lol, I'd watch this movie over and over again just to see Scar Jo in that tight leather outfit let alone the amazing picture quality.


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## JQueen

Thank you for another Great review I can't wait to check it out.


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## typ44q

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Thanks for the great review, loved seeing this in the theaters and I can not wait to get it on bluray!
Not sure if I will be getting the 3D version of it or not. I saw it in the theaters in 3D and felt like it was mostly a waste but there were a few scenes that made excellent use of 3D.


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## Todd Anderson

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Mike -

I really like two things about this review: Your total ENTHUSIASM and the fact that you're beating a lot of people to the punch with a solid review! Bonus!!!!

I'm not much a superhero movie fan... but I'm definitely going to give this one a spin.

Question: is the Movie presented in 2.35:1?


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## typ44q

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*



27dnast said:


> Mike -
> 
> I really like two things about this review: Your totally ENTHUSIASM and the fact that you're beating a lot of people to the punch with a solid review! Bonus!!!!
> 
> I'm not much a superhero movie fan... but I'm definitely going to give this one a spin.
> 
> *Question: is the Movie presented in 2.35:1?*


according to IMDB the movie was shot 1.85:1


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## Mike Edwards

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*



27dnast said:


> Mike -
> 
> I really like two things about this review: Your totally ENTHUSIASM and the fact that you're beating a lot of people to the punch with a solid review! Bonus!!!!
> 
> I'm not much a superhero movie fan... but I'm definitely going to give this one a spin.
> 
> Question: is the Movie presented in 2.35:1?


it's actually 1.85:1 , the only one of the marvel line-up to have a "full-screen" one of the series, but this is Joss Whedon and he tends to like that aspect ratio more than scope


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## tonyvdb

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*



Mike Edwards said:


> it's actually 1.85:1 , the only one of the marvel line-up to have a "full-screen" one of the series, but this is Joss Whedon and he tends to like that aspect ratio more than scope


Thats too bad but I still cant wait for its release. I have not seen it yet and I know I am in for a treat 
Great review Mike :T


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## Todd Anderson

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*



tonyvdb said:


> Thats too bad but I still cant wait for its release. I have not seen it yet and I know I am in for a treat
> Great review Mike :T


I agree... wish they all were w--i--d--e :bigsmile:


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## jd371

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*



Mike Edwards said:


> lol, I'd watch this movie over and over again just to see *Scar Jo in that tight leather outfit* let alone the amazing picture quality.


Or Gwyneth Paltrow's short shorts! :bigsmile:


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## Mike Edwards

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*



jd371 said:


> Or Gwyneth Paltrow's short shorts! :bigsmile:


who?? what??? there were other women in the movie? I was too entranced with that gorgeous redhead


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## Prof.

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

I watched this movie last night on Blu-ray..
Immediate disappointment was that it is shot in 1.85 AR and on my scope image, the subtitles are below the screen..Other than that the image wasn't noticeably cut off anywhere that I noticed..

It's another "right in your face" action movie with some incredible effects imagery!!
The Blu-ray transfer was generally very good but not brilliant..I have seen better transfers..but then this was a UK version so maybe the region A disc might be even better..

Prior to buying this movie I specifically didn't read anything about the story line and was surprised with the linking of the movie Thor..even though I knew that the Thor character was in it!

Whilst the movie had plenty of thumps and bangs, I was a little disappointed that the walls didn't shake!..particularly when the Hulk was on the loose!!
All in all, if you've been a fan of the other movies..you'll love this one..

I will definitely watch it again and I place it in the same category as Battleship...


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## mufsoman

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Great review and I can't wait for this BD. It will be a day one buy!!!


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## sparkymt

*Re: The Avengers - Blu-Ray Review*

Great review. I too had my doubts about this movie before it came out. I thought to myself, how are they gonna mess this one up. However, I really enjoyed this movie when it was released in theaters, and have been looking foward to it being released on DVD.


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## Cyberfloatie

Definitely going to pick this one up!

How is it that you can get a copy so far in advance of the Release Date? I was hoping to show this in the backyard this Saturday but alas, it's not available until Tuesday.


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## Mike Edwards

Cyberfloatie said:


> Definitely going to pick this one up!
> 
> How is it that you can get a copy so far in advance of the Release Date? I was hoping to show this in the backyard this Saturday but alas, it's not available until Tuesday.


Disney movie club shipped over 2 weeks early via media mail. however USPS delivered in less than 3 days instead of the normal 1.5 weeks or so. Basically I got lucky.


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## ozar

My copy just arrived so planning to watch this one tonight and can hardly wait!

The plan is to watch in 2D the first time, then in 3D, then who knows what after that...


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## typ44q

I just watched this last night (in 2D) and was really blown away by the video and audio quality on this disk. After reading several reviews I was expecting it to be too dark, especially the first half but I agree with you Mike, this was about the most perfect video transfer I have ever seen. The blacks were amazing and there was plenty of shadow detail in the darker scenes in the beginning. 
Maybe it is more equipment dependent than disk. I watched it on a 60" Panasonic ST50 plasma and my TV never looked as good.
This is just a great fun movie and I can hardly wait for the next one to come out!


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## Mike Edwards

typ44q said:


> I just watched this last night (in 2D) and was really blown away by the video and audio quality on this disk. After reading several reviews I was expecting it to be too dark, especially the first half but I agree with you Mike, this was about the most perfect video transfer I have ever seen. The blacks were amazing and there was plenty of shadow detail in the darker scenes in the beginning.
> Maybe it is more equipment dependent than disk. I watched it on a 60" Panasonic ST50 plasma and my TV never looked as good.
> This is just a great fun movie and I can hardly wait for the next one to come out!


I agree, the darkness wasn't an issue IMO, it's been kind of overstated by several other reviews. ESPECIALLY if you have something like a good plasma that can handle blacks really well.


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## ozar

I didn't notice any darkness issues at all, but I watched on a nice plasma screen so maybe that made the difference if there is any problem with darkness.


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## uinscript

I watched this movie in an IMAX theater. Lets see if my system can reproduce the same experience.


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## tonyvdb

Awesome movie! The soundtrack, video and the story was excellent :T my only gripe is why it was not in 2,35:1??? A hug blockbuster like this deserves much more screen space


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## ericzim

Great review. Disney Movie Club guy here as well. This is perhaps my favorite Marvel graphic novel/movie to date.


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## bxbigpipi

I will be ordering this movie this week. Couldn't believe how good this movies was when I saw it in theaters! Can't wait to get and see it again.


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## Dwight Angus

Watched this movie last night. Had a movie night at our place. Awesome movie. Both audio and video were stellar. Everyone thoroughly enjoy it. My 1.78:1 screen really enjoyed it as well


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## JBrax

I also loved this movie. Amazing audio/video with serious LFE throughout. My sub was working for its money on this one. Not only was the story outstanding but I also found it very funny at times. "Puny God" line had me rolling.


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## Savjac

I enjoyed the out of this film as well. It had everything that makes a home theater work.
I do have to wonder however, if we can ever have a film where the bad guys dont kick our earthling butts for the first 3\4 of the movie ? I suppose its ok to come from behind and defeat the icky bad dudes, but I am not sure how many more attacks New York can take.


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## allan0210

Hi Thank you nice review i ordered this on Friday looking forward to it even more now.


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## Mike Edwards

Savjac said:


> I enjoyed the out of this film as well. It had everything that makes a home theater work.
> I do have to wonder however, if we can ever have a film where the bad guys dont kick our earthling butts for the first 3\4 of the movie ? I suppose its ok to come from behind and defeat the icky bad dudes, but I am not sure how many more attacks New York can take.


LOL, I actually commented on that while watching it last time. with all the damage cause we'd bankrupt our nation 10 times over just repairing the collateral damage from the battles


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## rc1278

The review is spot on!


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## gorb

Picked up the movie this past saturday in costco. Haven't had time to watch it yet (I did see it in theaters of course). Maybe I can watch it after work today. Thanks for the review


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## ozar

I was a bit disappointed in _The Avengers_ the first time I saw it, but after going back and watching Iron Man 1 & 2, Captain America, and Thor once again, then re-watching The Avengers, it was far better than it was the first time around for me.


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## BD55

I didn't even see this in the theater, sadly. My first watch was in our neighbor's backyard with a whole bunch of the neighborhood on a sheet held up by a couple poles with a horrible projector and computer speakers for sound. I loved it. Definitely going to have to watch it with a little better quality setup though...


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## JQueen

I finally got around to watching this movie and personally I thought it started off extremely slow and about fell asleep but after a little and started to pick up and thought it was good not great


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## bluemax_1

Found the movie thoroughly enjoyable. Very entertaining, with the exception of the LFE. The LFE could have been so much better, especially in light of the previous releases in the franchise like Iron Man (IM) and especially The Incredible Hulk (TIH) with Edward Norton. The LFE in those movies is powerful AND deep. Avengers unfortunately, got the Thor treatment with a filter with a fairly steep rolloff below 30Hz. If your system rolls off below 25Hz, you wouldn't notice a thing, if your system will play down into single digits, there's a HUGE difference between the bass in Avengers vs. the bass in movies like TIH, War Of The Worlds (WOTW), How To Train Your Dragon (HTTYD) etc.


Max


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## mozilla314

Sorry to be stupid, but what is LFE?


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## bluemax_1

mozilla314 said:


> Sorry to be stupid, but what is LFE?


LFE = Low Frequency Effects aka Bass


Max


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## mozilla314

Why can't we just say "bass"?


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## bluemax_1

mozilla314 said:


> Why can't we just say "bass"?


Well, there are several octaves that encompass what folks usually think of as 'bass'.


Max


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## 3dbinCanada

IMHO, this is by far the best super hero movie out there. Great special effects, good use of surrounds, bass was decent (not stellar), and I loved the comic relief. It was entertaining from the very start.


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## sub_crazy

This is right up there with the Chris Nolan Batman franchise as the best Super Hero movies made. Really fun film that I am going to add to my collection and watch again soon.

As far as the bass is concerned my system will reach single digits with my arsenal of dual opposed subs. Even though this didn't hit the depths like WoW I thought the bass was great. There were a lot of segments in the movie were we said Wow when the bass just hit us hard. As a bass head I was very satisfied and had a good time.


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## Infrasonic

I finally got around to watching this on DVD since seeing it in the theaters way back when. I love the scenes where they are all together chatting with each other, in fact there was a line or two that I missed the first time I saw it.

This is a kind of universal superhero movie that just about anyone can enjoy, most of the other Marvell movies and The Dark Knight series have a much narrower audience. Marvell deserves a standing O for their work with this film, let’s hope they can duplicate it in 2015 for The Avengers 2.

Now what they _don't_ deserve accolades for is the audio. I'm not saying it was bad, in fact it was pretty good, but they neutered most of the content below 30hz. This could have been reference material, it could have been a demo for many a HT enthusiast, instead it's a great movie with audio that is less enjoyable than any of the other movies in the series.

Why did they do it? Who knows, but at least what they did get right they _really_ got right.


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## bluemax_1

Infrasonic said:


> I finally got around to watching this on DVD since seeing it in the theaters way back when. I love the scenes where they are all together BSing with each other, in fact there was a line or two that I missed the first time I saw it.
> 
> This is a kind of universal superhero movie that just about anyone can enjoy, most of the other Marvell movies and The Dark Knight series have a much narrower audience. Marvell deserves a standing O for their work with this film, let’s hope they can duplicate it in 2015 for The Avengers 2.
> 
> Now what they _don't_ deserve accolades for is the audio. I'm not saying it was bad, in fact it was pretty good, but they neutered most of the content below 30hz. This could have been reference material, it could have been a demo for many a HT enthusiast, instead it's a great movie with audio that is less enjoyable than any of the other movies in the series.
> 
> Why did they do it? Who knows, but at least what they did get right they _really_ got right.


Insider info says they blew a few subs in the studio while mixing Avengers. Maybe that's why they put the filter in place. Then again, Thor shows similar filtering below 30Hz.


Max


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## Mike Edwards

yeah, I agree on the bass. the bass was good for a solid rumble and was extremely accurate, but below about 28 hz it seems like they DID add a cutoff filter. That was one of the reasons I dialed the overall audio score back was the bass. great for what it was but the subsonic's suffered a tad. don't get me wrong, I still stand believe it was a great soundtrack but the LFE pulled it down just a tad.


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## Infrasonic

Good point Blue, I forgot Thor had similar filtering, I could swear that it had a more aggressive/more enjoyable track though. I need to give it a spin again.

LOL they blew subwoofers? Do we need to get together a donation fund on indiegogo or something so they can afford some better equipment and not kill the bass?

Mike - yes I would give it a solid 4 but I completely understand the 4 1/2. I'm a certified bass head when it comes to movies so my opinions need to be taken with a grain of salt.


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## Mike Edwards

Infrasonic said:


> Good point Blue, I forgot Thor had similar filtering, I could swear that it had a more aggressive/more enjoyable track though. I need to give it a spin again.
> 
> LOL they blew subwoofers? *Do we need to get together a donation fund on indiegogo or something so they can afford some better equipment and not kill the bass?*


:yeahthat:


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## bluemax_1

Infrasonic said:


> Good point Blue, I forgot Thor had similar filtering, I could swear that it had a more aggressive/more enjoyable track though. I need to give it a spin again.
> 
> LOL they blew subwoofers? Do we need to get together a donation fund on indiegogo or something so they can afford some better equipment and not kill the bass?


LOL! 'The great HTS studio subwoofer donation so you don't screw up the deep bass in movies giveaway'.

The problem is that the typical audio mixing soundstage has quite a lot more volume than the average HT, and the amount of power needed for each octave lower than 30Hz, requires substantially more power to pressurize the room the greater the room volume, which is why commercial theaters rarely do much below 30Hz (low 20's even in the best ones).



Max


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## Todd Anderson

Alright - I just gave this one a whirl on BD. I start this by saying I'm not typically a fan of superhero movies - I really enjoyed the recent batman trilogy, but outside of that the last superhero movie I enjoyed was Superman II in the 1970's!

Okay. That disclaimer is out if the way. Here's some facts, as this movie pertains to me:

1) I watched it in its entirety without stopping. So, I guess you could say I was entertained. I didn't love the story line. Usually it takes me 3 or 4 sittings to work my way through these kind of films... Some of the more obvious holes in the plot turned me off. I've found the attempts to ground reality into the recent batman movies have helped me enjoy them more... the opposite happened during Avengers. On a whole, I'd probably rate the story as 2 out of 4 stars.

2) PQ was beautiful... at times jaw dropping. My only gripe is that it isn't in 2.40:1. 3.85 out of 4 stars.

3). Audio was good. Great directionality. Aggressive. Not as good as D of the M... 

Dialog was lush and thick. Just the way I like it.

My biggest knock is on the bass. IMHO, it was a tad over used and not dynamic in its presentation; flat (?). Tons and tons of rumble that slowly started to sound the same despite the sources it was meant to be tied to... So ever-present that I began to get a tad annoying. I also didn't find it to be particularly tight. Again, IMO, I've heard it done a lot better

So, for audio, I'm going 2.99 out of 4 (edit, for JBrax.  ).


If you're a fan of the genre, this probably a must see... If not, you could let it pass. 

I do have to ask, what the were those giant flying whale skeletons with mouths? Those had me totally distracted during the battle.




***** Spoiler Alert *******

I did chuckle when the hulk thrashed Loki at the end. I'd been hoping someone would do that to him long before that!!!

**** End Spoiler *******





All-in-all, glad I watched it but also glad that I'm about to walk the dog past our local redbox and return it! ;-)


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## JBrax

2.5/4 sounds way low for the audio rating. I found the audio to be outstanding and loved the movie as well. Different strokes for different folks I guess.


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## Todd Anderson

I think the presentation would have benefited from more thoughtfully used and more dynamic bass. But, like you said, everyone has their own preferences. 

Dialog and use of the surrounds was definitely well done.


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## JBrax

I do see your point on the bass I'm just not sure I'd knock the audio rating down quite that far due to it. I'm basically just saying the audio sounded pretty good to me.


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## Savjac

I think I will have to listen to this again tonight as I was not really bothered by the bottom end, I thought it was pretty good. Hmm interesting how many takes there are on this movie and its soundtrack.
The movie was a bit over the top but then that is kind of what super heroes are all about.


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## ALMFamily

I think the disappointment for me as far as the soundtrack goes is specific to the bass only. I remember thinking when I saw the Iron Man / Thor / Capt America fight scene at the theater that I could not wait to hear that on my home system. I fully expected the shield slam to rattle me to my bones - I was sorely disappointed.


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## sub_crazy

bluemax_1 said:


> The problem is that the typical audio mixing soundstage has quite a lot more volume than the average HT, and the amount of power needed for each octave lower than 30Hz, requires substantially more power to pressurize the room the greater the room volume, which is why commercial theaters rarely do much below 30Hz (low 20's even in the best ones).
> 
> 
> 
> Max


I had read a quote by Mark Seaton on why most movie theater's rarely go below 30hz and the reason is that anything below that would disrupt the adjoining theater. He said it was easier to block the higher frequencies but the lower was harder to control. After I read that it made a lot of sense. 

I am always disappointed when I go to most theaters regarding the sound system and especially the bass, I have yet to hear one that can do bass better than at home.


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## bluemax_1

sub_crazy said:


> I had read a quote by Mark Seaton on why most movie theater's rarely go below 30hz and the reason is that anything below that would disrupt the adjoining theater. He said it was easier to block the higher frequencies but the lower was harder to control. After I read that it made a lot of sense.
> 
> I am always disappointed when I go to most theaters regarding the sound system and especially the bass, I have yet to hear one that can do bass better than at home.


Mark has a valid point. The thing is, to attain the same SPL at 15Hz in a ~450,000 cubic foot room (150'x100'x30')vs hitting that SPL at 30 Hz requires WAY more power.

That much power is MUCH harder to insulate and dampen. The average theater that can hit 115db to about 30Hz has about 12,000 - 16,000 watts in the entire sound system. With a volume of about 450,000 cubic feet, it would take ~4-8 times the wattage to hit 115db at 15Hz. All that added energy is that much harder to dissipate.

From a certain perspective, you could say that it's harder to insulate the lower frequencies, but simply put, it's about power. Pump 40 watts through a 1.5" compression driver at 7kHz and you might get 126db @ 1m. Pump that same 40 watts through a sub, at 30Hz then 15Hz and you'll get far less output. All are fairly easily absorbed/insulated. Pump 50,000 watts through an array of subwoofers at 15Hz or an array of 1.5" compression drivers at 7kHz, and it's going to be a chore to insulate against (granted, anyone in a room with 50,000 watts at 7kHz is going to be permanently deaf).

Of course the higher frequencies can be absorbed by different materials that are ineffective against the lowest octaves, but the sheer power required for flat output to those octaves requires more power than the commercial theaters deem feasible to implement, both to reproduce the lowest octaves AND to insulate against.


Max


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## Savjac

Color me easily amused, or a cheap date, whichever fits. :yes:

I went ahead and re-watched this disc tonight and I found the bottom end quite good and punishing on an elemental level. But, and everyone has a big BUT, I did not see this at the theater and had no pre existing notions as to how it should have sounded. Maybe that for once is a good thing eh ?
I can imagine where more low frequency information would have been expected in that forest scene based on the amount of carnage that went on, but...there goes that but again, but without anything to compare it to I guess I never really questioned it before it was mentioned here. It is kind of cool to see the movie through other folks eyes and ears though, makes for a much better discussion.


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## sub_crazy

I agree with you Jack, I found the bass to be a lot of fun and the room really shook and we were grinning from ear to ear.

What really surprises me is how many different people have such different reactions that I wonder if there are mastering problems with the audio on some discs and not on others? About half the bass heads I know loved the bass and the others thought it was a disappointment in the bass. I don't recall any other movies having such a wide range of comments that it makes me wonder if there were a bad batch of BD's that went out with a faulty LFE channel. Maybe half bad and the other half good?


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## bluemax_1

sub_crazy said:


> I agree with you Jack, I found the bass to be a lot of fun and the room really shook and we were grinning from ear to ear.
> 
> What really surprises me is how many different people have such different reactions that I wonder if there are mastering problems with the audio on some discs and not on others? About half the bass heads I know loved the bass and the others thought it was a disappointment in the bass. I don't recall any other movies having such a wide range of comments that it makes me wonder if there were a bad batch of BD's that went out with a faulty LFE channel. Maybe half bad and the other half good?


One simple dividing line is ULF (Ultra Low Frequency) capability. The folks who HAVE ULF capability down to single digit Hz or even flat into the teens find it a disappointment in comparison to other bass standouts. The folks whose bass reproduction falls off a cliff below 30Hz anyway would find the bass in this movie great. Take a poll of the folks who thought the bass was great vs the folks who thought the bass was disappointing and you might find a fairly good division between folks who have smaller subs that roll off below 25-30 Hz and maybe a few hundred watts, and the ones who have a few thousand watts in subwoofers alone with a lot of square driver inches.

It's not something that can be easily explained until a person experiences powerful ULF firsthand. Take one of the classic ULF demo scenes from the remake of War Of The Worlds starring Tom Cruise. The scene where the pod first emerges has content down to ~3Hz! The reaction from folks playing it back on systems that roll off below 30Hz is typically, "Meh... I prefer XXX for bass demos".

The reaction from those same folks hearing it for the first time on single digit Hz capable systems is, :gulp: :neener::T "Holy ! So THAT'S what all the fuss is about with that scene!".



Max


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## Savjac

Max

I think the answer lies in another area honestly, and that is the listener. As with everything else in this hobby, its the participant that formulates the opinion based on their hearing, vision etc. That seems to be why there are such wide variations in how folks react to most everything. I know very well what low frequencies are and being an old dude, maybe have experienced too many :gulp:
Second, my room and equipment can reproduce most everything and makes me smile, I think that is a success.


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## sub_crazy

Max,

My username is Sub_crazy for a reason  I have a total of 16 sealed subs in my system with response down to about 10hz so I am not missing anything. I use the War of the Worlds pod scene, FOTP, Black Hawk Down, Cloverfield and all the ULF bass torture tests when building subs so I know pretty well what my system is capable of. All these scenes make the whole room bounce like a trampoline and while the Avengers doesn't dig as deep it was still a thrill ride for bass and the room felt like an amusement park ride.

I have heard a pair of Seaton Submersives so I know my system digs down just as deep and owned a pair of LMS Ultra's before which are known for getting low. I guarantee you if you first heard WOW Pod scene on my system then listened to the Avengers you would not be disappointed. You could even listen to my friends system that has 4 LMS Ultra 18's and not be disappointed in the least. That is why I say that something must be wrong as all these bass heads varying opinions are all over the place.


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## Infrasonic

Mike, Avengers has a lot of bass and it's a fun movie to watch but what some have been pointing out is that it just doesn't go very low and if it did it would've been even more enjoyable. 

If someone with a capable system were to play the WOTW pod scene and then throw in a scene from Avengers they *will* notice a difference. In fact I did pretty much just that, after I watched The Avengers with some friends I put on The Haunting (DTS) scene where the ghost is banging on the doors. Unquestionably a night and day difference experienced by all.

The Avengers bass is frequent but all sounds the same, like the guy thumping his one note rap song in the car next to you.

As a side note for the first time I was truly impressed with a commercial theater sound system at my local Arclight where they now have a Dolby Atmos system in one of the theaters. I saw Taken 2 (bad movie) and they have an Atmos intro in the beginning that sounded so good I was left slackjawed when it was over. If only the actual movie sounded that good.


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## Todd Anderson

Infrasonic said:


> l.
> 
> The Avengers bass is frequent but all sounds the same, like the guy thumping his one note rap song in the car next to you.


This. This is exactly how I felt about... I had used the word "dynamic." Not to beat a dead horse, here, but there are a lot of presentations out there with bass that is more uniquely tied to it's visual source.

Maybe... its the fact that the movie has a roll off at 30hz. Maybe that's what I was picking up on. Not sure...?


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## sub_crazy

Infrasonic said:


> Mike, Avengers has a lot of bass and it's a fun movie to watch but what some have been pointing out is that it just doesn't go very low and if it did it would've been even more enjoyable.
> 
> If someone with a capable system were to play the WOTW pod scene and then throw in a scene from Avengers they *will* notice a difference. In fact I did pretty much just that, after I watched The Avengers with some friends I put on The Haunting (DTS) scene where the ghost is banging on the doors. Unquestionably a night and day difference experienced by all.
> 
> The Avengers bass is frequent but all sounds the same, like the guy thumping his one note rap song in the car next to you.
> 
> As a side note for the first time I was truly impressed with a commercial theater sound system at my local Arclight where they now have a Dolby Atmos system in one of the theaters. I saw Taken 2 (bad movie) and they have an Atmos intro in the beginning that sounded so good I was left slackjawed when it was over. If only the actual movie sounded that good.


I will admit that it is more one note bass than other great bass movies but it was still fun.

We are both neither right or wrong, it is just an opinion. The only point I was trying to bring up is that in the past there were BD's and DVD's made at different facilities in which one pressing was perfect the other pressing had an error. I am saying it might be a possibility that this happened, probably not but who knows :dontknow: I just found it odd at how many people's reactions were different, all with extremely capable bass systems. 

I am just going to drop it now, we may say tomato and potato differently, no need to argue who is right.


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## Savjac

I admit to being kind of new this this forum, or at least have not posted too often but I had hopes that this would become a discussion and not a my way or the highway kind of discussion. I think the differences we all experience are just that, an experience. In reality it is impossible to determine how much bass a movie such as this should have. How does one measure a battle between Thor, Iron Man and Captain America ? Can anyone of us point to the last time we actually heard or felt Thor's hammer fall ? With that in mind how can anyone quantify what should or should not be in comparison to...well anything ? Spaceships exiting the ground is close but no cigar, although I understand that some space ships have been said to look like a cigar.
This is all relative to what we WANT to hear, not what we actually know has been placed onto the soundtrack, even every theater in we attend will be different from other theaters. So this becomes a preference that is, frankly, easily remedied, turn up your bottom end if you want more.

I guess these types of discussions do often go into the one is right and one is wrong more often than not, similar to discussing who is the better superhero.


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## sub_crazy

Well said Jack.

I hope you post here more often as you are wayyyyyyy more mentally balanced than my-self  You really do have a good way of putting things in perspective and I appreciate that. Thank you :T


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## Infrasonic

I hear you Jack.

Although turning up the bottom end does not change the frequencies that are being played. 

It's like a cheeseburger - 1,000 McDonald's cheeseburgers do not compare to one In-N-Out burger


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## Savjac

Wow Thank You Gents, I appreciate the kind words.
I will continue to post yes, the one thing I keep in mind is the difference in the way things get discussed today as when I started to fall into this hobby a few zillion decades ago. Then we met, chatted in a group and by being face to face, the chat seemed more subdued. On line we get a bit more pouncy if that's a word and that kind of ruins a good chat. But it is what it is and one moves on to the next subject or post.

I think most peoples replies are quite valid although some are made by folks that really have perceptions in another dimension. None the less, for me it is ALWAYS a learning experience.

Onward and upward eh gents ??


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## Savjac

Infrasonic said:


> I hear you Jack.
> 
> Although turning up the bottom end does not change the frequencies that are being played.
> 
> It's like a cheeseburger - 1,000 McDonald's cheeseburgers do not compare to one In-N-Out burger


Well here is a good lesson, I have never been to an In-N-Out burger franchise. I think the last pretty good place I went to was Five Guys and yep, agreed McD just does not score well in those contests.


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## Sonnie

I have been looking around to see what movies I need to buy... obviously this is one of those. Thanks for the review Mike... nice job of selling me on it. :T


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## SI.Theater

I found the CGI in a few of the scenes to stick out in a bad way. Stark tower (and various other buildings in NY) for example looked fake in a few scenes. I'm not a big superhero movie fan, but I did enjoy the movie. Overall, I think it was pretty good.


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## gdstupak

I have a question concerning the Hulk's rage.
The first 3/4 of this movie stresses how out of control the Hulk is. He will smash anything in it's path, friend or foe. They even show this the first time the Hulk appears and goes after the Black Widow.
During the final battle, the Hulk's attitude/personality changed dramatically. He is now controllable, working with his new friends, protecting his new friends, and only battling the bad guys. 
What made the change? Or were we not supposed to notice this change?


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## SI.Theater

gdstupak said:


> I have a question concerning the Hulk's rage.
> The first 3/4 of this movie stresses how out of control the Hulk is. He will smash anything in it's path, friend or foe. They even show this the first time the Hulk appears and goes after the Black Widow.
> During the final battle, the Hulk's attitude/personality changed dramatically. He is now controllable, working with his new friends, protecting his new friends, and only battling the bad guys.
> What made the change? Or were we not supposed to notice this change?


I would imagine that we weren't supposed to notice that change.


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## bluemax_1

gdstupak said:


> I have a question concerning the Hulk's rage.
> The first 3/4 of this movie stresses how out of control the Hulk is. He will smash anything in it's path, friend or foe. They even show this the first time the Hulk appears and goes after the Black Widow.
> During the final battle, the Hulk's attitude/personality changed dramatically. He is now controllable, working with his new friends, protecting his new friends, and only battling the bad guys.
> What made the change? Or were we not supposed to notice this change?


He crash landed in a Zoloft factory?


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## mozilla314

gdstupak said:


> I have a question concerning the Hulk's rage.
> The first 3/4 of this movie stresses how out of control the Hulk is. He will smash anything in it's path, friend or foe. They even show this the first time the Hulk appears and goes after the Black Widow.
> During the final battle, the Hulk's attitude/personality changed dramatically. He is now controllable, working with his new friends, protecting his new friends, and only battling the bad guys.
> What made the change? Or were we not supposed to notice this change?



Great question. I've always wondered about this throughout the history of The Hulk. How his uncontrollable rage is selective.


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## gdstupak

Good to know I am not the only one confused about the Hulk. I wasn't sure if I missed something in this movie, or maybe if there is more information outside of this movie (comic books...).

As far as the movie itself...
The story, writing, and acting was definitely better and much more entertaining than I hoped it would be. Although I thought the first half with the alpha males fighting each other was a bit overdone and heavy-handed.
The audio and video were both very good.


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## ALMFamily

Just my opinion here, but I think through most of the movie, Bruce Banner fought who he was and tried to fight the transformation every time it occurred. After the conversation with Tony Stark in which Starks suggests that he embrace who he is, that his surviving the exposure was not an accident, I think Banner finally embraces who he is and through that gains control of who he becomes.


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## typ44q

I always thought it was the difference between him being provoked into turning into the hulk (making him out of control for some reason) and him choosing to be the Hulk on his own terms.


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## gdstupak

Sounds familiar Joe,

In the TV show "Once Upon A Time" Little Red Riding Hood is actually the big bad wolf. At first she always blacks out and has no control or memory while being a wolf. But later she learns that embracing, instead of fearing, her wolf side will allow her to control the animal.


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