# Where are the good audio engineers and record producers?



## arkiedan (Oct 20, 2013)

Being an old retired guy with plenty of time on my hands I took the time to read the excellent two-channel speaker setup guide by AudiocRaver and, using that, to really dial-in my Martin Logan Motion 12s. All I can say is; Thanks AudiocRaver! The 12s just sing! Imaging and soundstage is amazing! I feel like I can walk over and touch that first violin's g-string. 

That said, I've got to ask the question; have there ever been more than two or three sound engineers out there who can properly mix bands and orchestras? Are you kidding me? With this speaker setup I'm now hearing so many really dumb mixes I never noticed before. An example would be my old Cream recording where Clapton's guitar is locked to the left speaker but with his voice is over on the right side! What? Another example is a Ray Charles album, where Ray is singing on the right speaker and his piano is over on the left, along with the band. This phenomenon seems to be prevalent in pop/rock studio recordings but I'm sure there are many others. The mixes are so bad I find it necessary to listen in mono. It's the only way I can stand it. :sad: 

Thankfully, I don't hear this very often on classical recordings. Most of my classical disks are mixed properly, with soundstage and imaging that varies in size and depth, but nearly all are acceptable to excellent. An example of excellent sound engineering, IMO, is on a record I learned of from the speaker shootouts here on HTS; Nickel Creek by Nickel Creek. Man! What a great sound! It even made me a believer in bluegrass (well, almost.) To me, this is what a properly produced album should sound like. Sadly, it's rather rare, at least in my experience. 

Oh, in the interest of full disclosure, I'll admit it. I'm an old guy, one who listens to very few "new" recordings and artists. I'd like to believe that maybe the recording companies have wised up and hired or trained studio technical staff. But I doubt it. I would think/hope that some of the more talented groups would care enough about their final product to involve themselves in the recording process. There's so much garbage out there these days that I suspect the recording staff is still irrelevant. 

Okay! There! I had to come here to vent! I'd love to hear from those who listen to newer music. You know; music newer than King Oliver's band. I know. They recorded in mono. I can live with that.

old, old arkiedan lddude:lddude:lddude:


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Stereo 'recording' went through lots of growing pains.
I have heard lots of mixes from the 60's that had vocals on one side and instruments on the other.
As time marched on it got better.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

AIX Records is one of the best and most consistent of the brands out there.
Mark Waldrep has been around for many years and now provides his beliefs into high definition recordings on DVD and BR in three different options. Music in the round, music as heard by an audience, both of which are in surround and finally music in 24/96 stereo.
All of these choices are on each disc sold. If you have a BR player connected to your system, get a sampler such as the HD Audio/Video sampler, you will have a hard time going back to some older recordings. I am still amazed.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

arkiedan said:


> Being an old retired guy with plenty of time on my hands I took the time to read the excellent two-channel speaker setup guide by AudiocRaver and, using that, to really dial-in my Martin Logan Motion 12s. All I can say is; Thanks AudiocRaver! The 12s just sing! Imaging and soundstage is amazing!


Glad the Guide was useful to you. You chose a great pair of speakers, that always helps.



> That said, I've got to ask the question; have there ever been more than two or three sound engineers out there who can properly mix bands and orchestras? Are you kidding me? With this speaker setup I'm now hearing so many really dumb mixes I never noticed before. An example would be my old Cream recording where Clapton's guitar is locked to the left speaker but with his voice is over on the right side! What? Another example is a Ray Charles album, where Ray is singing on the right speaker and his piano is over on the left, along with the band. This phenomenon seems to be prevalent in pop/rock studio recordings but I'm sure there are many others. The mixes are so bad I find it necessary to listen in mono. It's the only way I can stand it. :sad:


Welcome to the audiophile's slippery slope. Now that you can really hear the details in a mix, you will find out that a lot of your old favorites are no longer listenable. You will choose tracks that were mixed well, which will help you find ways to further refine your system, which will lead you to get even pickier about your tracks, etc, etc. Sorry, it is the life we live.



> Thankfully, I don't hear this very often on classical recordings. Most of my classical disks are mixed properly, with soundstage and imaging that varies in size and depth, but nearly all are acceptable to excellent. An example of excellent sound engineering, IMO, is on a record I learned of from the speaker shootouts here on HTS; Nickel Creek by Nickel Creek. Man! What a great sound! It even made me a believer in bluegrass (well, almost.) To me, this is what a properly produced album should sound like. Sadly, it's rather rare, at least in my experience.


You are discovering, as many others have, that once quality of recording becomes a priority, listening tastes will turn to the recording artists, groups, genres, and producers that consistently deliver high quality recordings and mixes. It is an interesting phenomenon. Most of the serious listeners I know have had the same experience over time.



> Oh, in the interest of full disclosure, I'll admit it. I'm an old guy, one who listens to very few "new" recordings and artists. I'd like to believe that maybe the recording companies have wised up and hired or trained studio technical staff. But I doubt it. I would think/hope that some of the more talented groups would care enough about their final product to involve themselves in the recording process. There's so much garbage out there these days that I suspect the recording staff is still irrelevant.


While most recording artists and groups tend to be fairly consistent with the recording quality they insist upon, there can still be a bit of variation from album to album. So a list of groups and artists, by album, seems like a useful resource. I assure you, there are many, many good recordings out there. But there are plenty of bad ones too, so you should not have to figure it all out on your own. Have you seen this sticky thread? It is a pretty good list of good test tracks and albums.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Excellent points AudioCraver.
Of late there is a push to remove any dynamics from the music so it can be better heard in a car or on those inexpensive in ear headphones as provided by many cell phone manufacturers. It would appear, at least for now, that recording companies are being driven to satisfy those that purchase the most, especially in way of MP3's. Classical music will suffer the worst in that the quiet bits can be drowned out in a vehicle or in loud places so once again, engineers, producers and all those involved, cut the life out of any classical pieces but squashing the dynamics of the piece.

Wayne is spot on in that most musicians that know what is important, if allowed, will do their best to get it right from the get go. Jazz seems to do very well on average, less processing, less remixing and sometimes just a simple recording space. 

In the end I know of no guarantees in the sound quality market any more, even Mark Knopflers new recording has been seriously compromised and he has always been consistent with his recording quality. I am not sure where this will end...... :dontknow:


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

Couldn't agree more Jack. I owned several AIX BD's & really enjoy them. Most of my discs are the samplers & the quality is 1st rate.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Agree, jazz seems to be one of the few styles of music that seems to get it right. I don't know if they are still around but GRP records did fanominal recordings.


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

I'm getting to be an old guy, too. While I agree with you, to a point, I must comment that I neither expect, nor desire to only hear perfect, natural soundstage in recordings. Especially with the advent of quality multichannel, the art of mixing synthesized landscapes ought to be free from such a constraint. I find the excellent productions (Pink Floyd has a few) which explore the rich territory of 3D sound immersion _very_ entertaining.

Recent changes in 'life' have driven changes in our living arrangement (I gave up space for our daughter) that reduced the space (planars eat up lots of it) I can allocate to the system in the mancave, so I bought some new gear and changed my focus. As a setup test, I put on 'The Endless River' DTS Master mix...and listened to the whole thing even though I knew that I needed to relocate my universal player, which I postponed because I was positively _riveted_.


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## arkiedan (Oct 20, 2013)

AudiocRaver said:


> Glad the Guide was useful to you. You chose a great pair of speakers, that always helps.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


AudiocRaver,
As always, your response/input is excellent, tasteful and to the point. Thanks!

This late in the game I'm listening to a lot of music on Amazon digital, looking for jazz and popular artists that have appeal to me. After hearing a singer/group in 256 kbps MP3 I feel better about ordering a higher quality recording.

By the way, some of my old jazz recordings (Mulligan, Brubeck, MJQ, Miles), in vinyl and on CD, are mixed terribly! You have to ask, "Didn't these guys listen to the recording after the session?" I suspect not.

Anyway, thanks to all who responded.

old, old arkiedan lddude:lddude:


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Some record labels offer good sound across more than one genre. Higher Octave is one such label which offers New Age, World, Meditation, Electronica styles. JVC XRCD's are almost exclusively classical, though I did pick up a dirt cheap copy of Steve Miller Band's, The Joker. The Telarc label also produced some goodies, but I think their newer stuff is known to be over enhanced. Another good label is Audioquest. Good house rock in' blues on that one!

Higher Octave is a sub-label imprint of Narada Productions, which is part of Universal Music Group's Capitol Music Group, located in Los Angeles. Higher Octave was acquired by Virgin Records on behalf of EMI in 1997. Wikipedia

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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