# 3D Projector - optimum distance from screen question



## Tesla3D (Mar 23, 2011)

My experience with 3D is using a HP Envy 17 3D laptop with HP shudder glasses. 

I want to get a 3D projector(s) for ultimate gaming experience.
Willing to buy 1 or 2 3D Projectors as needed.
Here is the clincher... I do not want to use the shutter glasses.
Instead, I want to do what ever it takes to get high quality 3D using polarized glasses.

And, as this is a single user solution, the smallest footprint is desired. 
LOL this is probably a challange for home theater groups that want a *big* room.

*Optimum Distance from Screen for 3D Gaming question:*
would a 6' diag projection screen be a good size? (suggesting life size game figures)
how far back from a 6' screen should the user's eyes be for optimal effect?
the idea of course is to be "in the game action"
Has anyone experimented with optically perfect fresnel lens, mirrors or other optics that allow the user's eyes to extend the focal length?

Would appreciate any and all links or ideas that can help me.
One of my degrees is electrical engineering. Back in the 80's, I owned a calibration lab for electronics devices, RF repair, Audio repair, was Sony Professional one-inch and time base corrector certified, and much more. Of course, that was two decades ago before moving into computer DB and programming. But, tech talk is OK. 
*Thanks in advance*


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

Since it's single user, you are probably better off considering a TV rather than a projector. 3D TVs that require polarized glasses are starting to come on the scene now. By the way, it's shutter, not shudder.


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

Alan Brown said:


> Since it's single user, you are probably better off considering a TV rather than a projector.


I have to disagree there as I feel size is the key for 3D. I have 2 rows of seats in my cinema where the front row is at just 2x the image height. Normally (for 2D) I find this a tad close and the image bordering on over whelming. I was loaned a Mistsubishi HC9000, 2 pairs of glasses and three 3D titles (AVATAR being the only live action film) and I loved the feel of the image from the front row. 



> 3D TVs that require polarized glasses are starting to come on the scene now. By the way, it's shutter, not shudder.


You can get several passive polarized 3D projection systems. What annoys me with these systems is the fact you need a silver screen. I like my white AT screen as it works for both 2D and 3D.


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## Tesla3D (Mar 23, 2011)

That is very interesting: Regarding a 3D TV that supports non-shutter (thanks for pointing that out) glasses, what are the relative size and cost vs a projection setup if the parts were being designed in the next 90 days? Are there any models to recommend?

I had planned to discuss the silver screen vs white in a different thread. My guess is that there will be a lot of good ideas on that. For example your commend on 2D and 3D.

Re: *You can get several passive polarized 3D projection systems*.
Where is a good place to review these?

At least the very small sample feed back from the HP Envy 17 3D site where gamers have connected to 3D TV vs 3D Projectors: indicates that bigger is much better. While I am personally more of a pilot simulator person, players tell me that the 3D lifesize zombies add a lot to the reality.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

Mark Techer said:


> I have to disagree there as I feel size is the key for 3D. I have 2 rows of seats in my cinema where the front row is at just 2x the image height. Normally (for 2D) I find this a tad close and the image bordering on over whelming. I was loaned a Mistsubishi HC9000, 2 pairs of glasses and three 3D titles (AVATAR being the only live action film) and I loved the feel of the image from the front row.
> 
> 
> 
> You can get several passive polarized 3D projection systems. What annoys me with these systems is the fact you need a silver screen. I like my white AT screen as it works for both 2D and 3D.


As a single user, he can simply sit closer to a TV for a larger image when desired. Screen size is fundamentally a function of viewing distance. 

There is plenty of information on the web about various 3D display options, both current and soon to be released. Just use a search engine. Recent issues of Widescreen Review magazine have featured very in-depth and detailed articles on the state of 3D technology and equipment options. There is even an option on their web site to subscribe to the electronic edition, with access to the subscriber portion of their web site and archives at a reduced cost. Note particularly the Joe Kane articles.


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

Tesla3D said:


> That is very interesting: Regarding a 3D TV that supports non-shutter (thanks for pointing that out) glasses, what are the relative size and cost vs a projection setup if the parts were being designed in the next 90 days? Are there any models to recommend?


Budget pending, the JVC X3 is probably the most cost effective 3D projector on the market. And it works very well. It uses shutter glasses though. 

All of the passive solutions I got to see at CEDIA last year were quite pricey. 



> I had planned to discuss the silver screen vs white in a different thread. My guess is that there will be a lot of good ideas on that. For example your commend on 2D and 3D.


My first 3D cinema experience was a DOLBY 3D system which used the cinema's original white screen. The interesting part was that the presentation began with a "please put your 3D glasses on now" and everything was 3D including the pre-show.

When I went back, they had changed the DOLBY 3D system out for a REAL D 3D system which uses a silver screen. The pre-show was 2D and it annoyed me as the silver screen sparkles for me. Once in 3D, it was all good. 



> Re: *You can get several passive polarized 3D projection systems*.
> Where is a good place to review these?


I think you will only specialized dealers will have all the options. LG is making a 6 panel LCoS system that uses passive glasses and a silver screen.



> At least the very small sample feed back from the HP Envy 17 3D site where gamers have connected to 3D TV vs 3D Projectors: indicates that bigger is much better. While I am personally more of a pilot simulator person, players tell me that the 3D lifesize zombies add a lot to the reality.


When it comes to 3D, size does matter for sure.


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## Tesla3D (Mar 23, 2011)

Very, very informative!

Sorry for the *long delay* to respond, NYC was a lot of fun! Saw a Broadway Play "Book of Morman", a Saturday Night Live actor in a comedy club, and so much more.
While I was out there, secured a contract for our UAV Quad copter, but had to update our existing one with new bigger motors and bigger batteries (1500 KVA) to lift 50 pounds. Anyone want to mount their HD Camera on our system? And, another HD video documentry contract came in shortly after. I also was called up by Vail Colorado to attend a short conference. Anyway, enough of my travels.

So, the silver screen is sparkly in 2D? Please do tell more.
I am now in the process of looking at different commercial locations to open up. Part of the setup would include the 3D. One place, close to home has smaller windows around it.

*Does controlling outside light make a small, medium, or big difference?*


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## Tesla3D (Mar 23, 2011)

LG TV announced the release of new HDTV 3D with passive glasses
47" - sit back 11' http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/televisions/educational-browsing/index.jsp
Holde the cursor over a diag box.
Would 3D content follow this rating too?

Imagine a wall:
If I was to put a game on a 47" 3D TV with about 9" between screens - add a 3D game system to it. The users would need to sit back 11'. 
for a commercial building, that would be about 33 ft sq per player (3 players, 100 ft sq). Observers with 3D glasses could stand behind the player in the isleway (2 foot). That space will cost me about $120 a month for three 3D game stations.

It would seem that a 47" set - with a game player - that 11 feet back is a lot of distance. What about 5. Feet back? My goal would be about 8 units with rumble seats. The real-estate cost adds up.

As to the statement - size does matter on 3D - If I have a 8 foot diag 3d projector, how far back would a gamer need to sit?


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## Tesla3D (Mar 23, 2011)

While I was in NYC, LG and Xbox 360 announced a partnership:
While it appears that Microsoft and LP is only a Korea deal, I am very interested in a DYI polorized projector connected to the Xbox 3D with Kinex. It was demonstated in Korea.

Any sites or suggestions are welcome.

As stated above, it would be great to have something like this in my upcoming VR cafe.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/11/xbox-360-3d-gaming-a-reality-with-lg-partnership/
Update: Here's a statement direct from Microsoft US on the partnership and the future of 3D Xbox 360 gaming:

3D games are available today on Xbox 360 and will continue to evolve. Today, you can buy a 3DTV and wear glasses to play games like Avatar and "Batman: Arkham Asylum." The promotional partnership with LG announced in South Korea today is specific to the South Korean market, but is further evidence that as 3D adoption grows, Xbox 360 will support 3D games and entertainment.


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

Tesla3D said:


> So, the silver screen is sparkly in 2D? Please do tell more.


My experiences with the silver screens for 2D is sparkles. I've even see them during some 3D screening. The silver screen is to keep the light polarized, but I do think that the impact on 2D is a huge compromise to the passive 3D systems.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

Tesla3D said:


> LG TV announced the release of new HDTV 3D with passive glasses
> *47" - sit back 11'* http://www.lg.com/us/tv-audio-video/televisions/educational-browsing/index.jsp
> Holde the cursor over a diag box.
> Would 3D content follow this rating too?
> ...


Those viewing distance recommendations from LG are contrary to imaging science, human visual acuity, and video industry best practices. LG has done contrary things like this on occasion over the years. They are not a reliable industry authority. THX has helped them improve some of their practices.

Here is one of the best overviews of the fundamental principles critical to understanding image size I have found: http://forum.blu-ray.com/newbie-dis...fused-again-viewing-distance.html#post1954716 . Keep in mind that some 3D systems and formats reduce resolution, which would change the viewing distance formulas.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants Affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

When I got to test the Mitsubishi HC9000, 2x the image height was very good for 3D movies. I would assume games would be the same.


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