# sunfire true mk2 --vs--definitive supercube 6000



## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm looking to add a sub to my collection, all of my other subs (4cs ultras, 2 18" fi sonosubs) I xover at about 23hz because I want the room pressure but don't care for the sound. My mains are polk rt 55's--which I xover at 120hz so I don't have anything playing from 25hz-110hz. I know I don't want another low tuned- ported -large woofered cylinder sub. I've been looking at used.... sunfire true subwoofers 8" or 10" but they are fairly old with no eq feature, but have massive power 2700w and high xmax drivers. I am also interested in the definitive supercube 6000, its a hometheater top pick and has a remote with tweek ability because of the eq features. Has anyone experienced both?? any thoughts? 

My budget is $600-900. Both subs play low enough (both play 14-16hz ish) to add more room shacking bass/blending in with my other subs so what I'm looking for is good feel at 50hz without the annoying thud that the bigger subs have. thanks in advance, rich


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

I don't believe I understand. Sounds like you have great subs and you are not using these subs to cover the frequencies they are designed to play. Why aren't your subs playing 25-120 Hz they obviously will play it and pressurize the room when they do. Can you give me more info.


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

As crazy as it sounds I don't like how they sound. Here's what it amounts to.... I am using one of my ultras to cover the range I'm looking for.... and its ok, but I am looking for a sub that will have alot of movement with less sound at 50hz. The sunfire uses one powered driver and one passive driver equal size to create more energy with less sound while the definitive uses 1 powered and 2 passive drivers for the same reason... more energy w/less sound (or at least I think thats why....or maybe thats the theory behind it?) . So I guess my question is....will that make a difference? Plus one of the other reasons is... I use my 4 ultras under my rear risor and run them with a behringer ep2500 and now one is missing from its true home


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Unfortunately what you own are transducers. These will convert electrical energy to sound waves. The only way to get speaker movement without sound is 1) to play lower than your hearing ability or 2)capture the sound, somehow, leaving sound pressure. I don't know how probable #2 is but...

A friend talks about sound dispersion by placing a 14" round x 4' high insulated tube directly in front of the sub. Try this link and look in the corner for the round "Bass Trap"
If you use this directly in front of the bass speaker (which is a qualified use). He says tp start at about 1' away and experiment. I am sure the Bass traps on this page are expensive..., GIK acoustics may have something more reasonably priced and maybe specifically suited for your request. Look on HTS list of sponsors at the top of the page for GIK Acoustics.
Below is a link for example only.

http://www.monoandstereo.com/2011/02/advance-acoustic-panels-room-treatment.html



Personally when a bass guitar plays a run of music I want to hear exactly what he/she is playing. I want to hear wheather it is an upright bass or bass fidle w/bow or a five string electric bass. Or if the musician went to the trouble of recording in a church with an incredible pipe organ I want it to sound right.


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

The subs I am using for pressurizing the room are fine, now I'm looking for this-----Personally when a bass guitar plays a run of music I want to hear exactly what he/she is playing. I want to hear wheather it is an upright bass or bass fidle w/bow or a five string electric bass. Or if the musician went to the trouble of recording in a church with an incredible pipe organ I want it to sound right.

So do I wan't the sunfire or the definitive??


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

personally id go with larger main speakers.something that could produce the mid-bass your looking for.your crossover frequencies seem a bit weird to me.id get main speakers that could handle to 40hz,and cross the subs there.


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

At 1 point I had rf7's for my mains and I hated them (I don't care for klipsch horns), and I was xing them over at the same 120hz. The polks are much better sounding. Neither speakers sound good below 120. I think its because my mains are tucked in the corners...... cuz of my 150" screen


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

oh yeah thats the muddy bass issue with your mains.they need at least a couple feet from any wall.in your case if you want a smaller sub to do midbass.id get the sunfire!bob carver products are legendary.


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

Thats what I was thinking, the only problem is the sunfires I've been looking at are 10-15yrs old (not alot of features and many years of abuse), and the problem with the definitive, is obviously its not a sunfire (lol) but it does have a remote and eq features so I can just put it where I like and run the subwoofer eq. In the past I have had trouble running audyssey and now I have the subs perfect. (audyssey has trouble with small rooms that are over sub-woofered). I'm trying to figure out the lesser of two evils. thanks rich


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

another good small sub with remote,and eq.the velodyne optimum 8 would be another good choice.


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

My only question about the velodyne is.....do the sunfire and the definitive have more "movement" or "energy" because of the passive drivers??


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

I'm thinking more about the definitive 4000, it has the 8" driver and I agree about the whole midbass theory, but like you said the sunfire with a 8" driver and 2700w is jaw dropping :unbelievable:


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

any of the ones we have talked about here should suffice.the velo would defo have great midbass punch.if you want tight musical bass.you should consider the sealed sub.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

velodynes new sub looks good to the eqmax 10.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

I recently received a pair of Power Sound Audio XS15's for review and they are definitely worth checking out. The down-firing design gives you plenty of shake for movies, but being that it is sealed you get the smoothness and clean sounding bass necessary for music fidelity.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

Dale Rasco said:


> I recently received a pair of Power Sound Audio XS15's for review and they are definitely worth checking out. The down-firing design gives you plenty of shake for movies, but being that it is sealed you get the smoothness and clean sounding bass necessary for music fidelity.


he already has 4x18 inch subs.he is looking for something to do midbass.strike that velo its a bit low powered.the new eqmax 10 anyway.


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

I feel like the definitive's are the answer..... either the 4000 or the 6000, for no reason other than the eq features. I am a believer in eqing, and I feel like 1200w for the 4000 and 1500w for the 6000 are adequate enough power for the 8" & 9" drivers, now I realize that thats a far cry from 2700w but being able to eq should trump the power shortage.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

Well it looks like you have your answer.I to think they will have plenty of power.especially being they will be mid bass units.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

pietsch288 said:


> I feel like the definitive's are the answer..... either the 4000 or the 6000, for no reason other than the eq features. I am a believer in eqing, and I feel like 1200w for the 4000 and 1500w for the 6000 are adequate enough power for the 8" & 9" drivers, now I realize that thats a far cry from 2700w but being able to eq should trump the power shortage.


The difference between 1500 watts and 2700 watts might add up to a mere 2-3 dB SPL... IF the amps were used on the same woofers. As they are not, all bets are off. Some drivers are more sensitive than others, vented enclosures give more output around tune than a comparable sealed box would, etc. There are way too many variables to use watts as a metric for a sub's ability.

EQ'ing wont help make up for less power, it will demand more from the amp if you are using it to boost, kicking 20 Hz up 6 dB will be asking the amp to deliver 4 times more power at that frequency.

You already have plenty of woofage in your room, adding another sub is probably not going to help you attain the goal of satisfactory midbass. A smaller sub will be drowned out by the bigger subs and won't be noticed, unless you turn the larger ones down, which is a waste.

I'd be willing to bet that moving the subs around and playing with crossover/distance/EQ settings will go a long ways towards listening satisfaction. Check out this article.

http://blog.acousticfrontiers.com/whats-new/2010/7/1/room-correction-a-primer.html


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

I agree with you on the difference between the 2 subwoofers (I found an open box definitive 6000 for 650.00 shipped with 1 yr warranty so I have to try one). I run the 18's and the ultras.... 10hz-22hz. I use the sms-1 to x-over the subs at 22hz with a 48db slope. I get fantastic room pressure with no sound, and I'm running my mains x-over at 120hz because there tight in the front corners (they sound the best xover higher), so I do have an area where the definitive or sunfire could be a nice addition (or at least I hope so). If my dreams don't come true, I'll just sell the sub for what I paid or take a small loss. If the definitive is really close maybe I'll sell it and get a sunfire or something, I've never tried a sealed sub with passive radiators so I'm hoping I like the sound. rich


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