# Phantom Center?



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

To avoid jacking another member's thread I have a question about a Phantom Center, what would be the conditions to use this approach and how would one go about doing this properly?


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## Dave Upton (Aug 4, 2009)

The conditions for using this are:

1) You have no center channel

2) You have no place to put a center channel

3) Your center channel placement would be way out of line with your left and right

4) Your center channel is horrible and dialogue is muddy.

To implement this you generally just turn your center channel off in your AVR's menu and it will automatically start using phantom center mode. Some receivers require you to set a separate setting for Phantom mode but it's generally under Speaker Setup or something similar.


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## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Thanks Dave, I now understand the reasons why now, will you need to re-run Audyssey? also how will others who may be sitting off-axis be affected?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Cant really say more than what Dave has said. If at all possible you should use a center channel however in the case where it wont fit or just does not sound good, Phantom is an option and works quite well. I've been using it on my living room system for about 3 years.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Ares said:


> Thanks Dave, I now understand the reasons why now will you need to re-run Audyssey?


In theory, you should not but, depending on the implementation, Audyssey may require re-running with any change in speaker configuration. 



> also how will others who may be sitting off-axis be affected?


Off-axis listeners will suffer less stability of voices and center-imaging.


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## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Thank you Tony and Kal for the info, if Off-axis listeners suffer would expanding the width of the fronts help, example move speakers from 6ft to 9ft apart?


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## JohnWin909 (May 25, 2010)

Yes that would make the "sweetspot" larger.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Ares said:


> Thank you Tony and Kal for the info, if Off-axis listeners suffer would expanding the width of the fronts help, example move speakers from 6ft to 9ft apart?





JohnWin909 said:


> Yes that would make the "sweetspot" larger.


That would make the sweetspot larger but less "sweet" and focal and even on-axis listening would suffer.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

The kind of speakers you are using makes a pretty big difference as well- Some fronts will mesh with each other almost perfectly from across the screen, and others will leave a gaping hole without the center.. It all depends on what you're using, and you just need to give it a listen and see how it does. When I got my RF-5 towers (my first big buy!), they were such an improvement over the Synergy speakers that the old center dragged the towers down pretty badly; It became necessary to go phantom until I was able to get a RC-3ii to match the towers, and luckily the horns were able to match up pretty well with the right placement. It was still a huge improvement when the new center came in though, so you should definitely at least try to get something in the middle if it's feasible


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

One reason is simply lack of funds. I've been telling people building a system with limited funds to buy the center channel last. IMO, you can get by without the center easier than the other speakers.


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## Trick McKaha (Oct 7, 2009)

Spuddy said:


> The kind of speakers you are using makes a pretty big difference as well- Some fronts will mesh with each other almost perfectly from across the screen, and others will leave a gaping hole without the center.. It all depends on what you're using, and you just need to give it a listen and see how it does. When I got my RF-5 towers (my first big buy!), they were such an improvement over the Synergy speakers that the old center dragged the towers down pretty badly; It became necessary to go phantom until I was able to get a RC-3ii to match the towers, and luckily the horns were able to match up pretty well with the right placement. It was still a huge improvement when the new center came in though, so you should definitely at least try to get something in the middle if it's feasible


Yes. Me, too. (different speakers, though.) +1 and all that.


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