# Options for Wiring an Oppo



## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

I've been looking at the Oppo 971 and am deciding how I should wire it.
I'd like you guys to see if you find any glaring problems. I've got two ideas, one the video signal might suffer (cable lenth), the other audio might suffer (cable lenth). And other general advantages/disadvantages to each wiring option.

Option #1: Put the Oppo in the rack with the rest of the equipment. The audio cable run would be about 2'. The Oppo DVI output to HDMI input of the receiver. Then HDMI output to the DVI input of the projector.
Advantage: Short Audio run. Receiver is now the video switching unit. Receiver DOES have the ability to adjust video/audio sync delay.
Disadvantage: 25' long video run. Two video cables used (4 terminations) more possibility of signal loss. Cost of HDMI/DVI cables.

Option #2: Put the Oppo within a few feet of the projector. Oppo HDMI output to DVI input of the projector. Cable lenth, about 6'. Run the audio via RCA to the receiver 25' away.
Advantage: Short Video run.
Disadvantage: Long audio run. Lose the ability of video switching in the receiver. "POSSIBLY" losing the ability of using the on screen menu for the receiver?

Any ideas, thoughts, critisisms?

Here's links to the back plate of each component:

Oppo 971:
http://www.oppodigital.com/opdv971h_images.html

Harman Kardon AVR 645:
http://harmankardon.com/back.aspx?p...A&Country=US&Language=ENG&ImgName=AVR645B.jpg

Sanyo PLV Z2:
http://projectorcentral.com/pdf/projector_spec_2239.pdf

Bob


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I'd place it in the rack with the rest of your equipment. The long video run is really not a problem with a minimum quality HDMI cable. Mine if 25', pretty decent quality and I don't think I paid more than $30-40 ... maybe less... it's been a while.


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

I'll second Sonnie,

Put it in the rack - get some low cost DVI cables from monoprice.com, pimfg.com, or ebay.

I've considered the oppo, but now I'm wondering if I'd be better off with an HD-DVD player instead - they can be had for around $400 on the shack store (amazon), and I think they up-convert DVD's too. when you figure the oppo is $200, an extra 200 might be worth it (It is worth it if you don't have a player yet - Picture and sound Quality is amazing) I have the xbox 360 HD drive and it looks great, but sound is limited to dolby digital downmixing. 

As an added bonus, A single HD dvd drive that upconverts would save space over the existing DVD player, and that tiny Xbox add on drive, which I can't stack anything on, and is too big to share space with the 360 on the shelf.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Ok Jack, HOOOOOLD THE PHONE!!!

Looking at the specs on the 971, it appears it _IS_ HD.
I really didn't want to spend $400 for "the latest and greatest". I prefer to let everybody else be the guiney pig, and let the price come down a bit... (which is why I'm "late on the scene" buying an Oppo.)
If the 971 is NOT HD, how much better is the video quality on a true HD unit?
....Also keep in mind my projector specs too....
Please enlighted me

Bob


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

by HD, I meant, plays HD-DVD software - I have a few movies in HD and they look terrific.
they would look better on your sanyo, since thats 720p.

The $400 toshiba HD-DVD player plays both SD - upconverted, as well as HD-DVD.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

And the SD is excellent IMO... although I have no idea how it compares to the Oppo.


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## fibreKid (Apr 20, 2006)

A new 971 might be hard to find. Last week the oppo site said discontinued and tonight I see only refurb units. Have you looked at the 981? 
I have also seen the Toshiba HD-A1 for $349.00 US. It's a steal if legit.:devil: 

Good luck
-john


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Alright guys, thanks for the info.

fibrekid, I like the 981. 
However - Money slowly seeps *into* my wallet, but flows *out* freely. :spend: 
I know it's only $90 more, but ..... $90 is $90 I could use for more stuff.

Unsure how much better the 981 would be on my projector??

UPDATE: availability on Oppo products...All in stock as of today. The 971 is refurbished, but maintains the full factory warranty.

decisions.... decisions.... decisions

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Ok, I'm going with Johns (fibrekid) recommendation, the Oppo 981.

Just to make sure (I'm slightly paranoid, I've never messed with HDMI)...Can I wire the 981 from HDMI to the receivers HDMI input, then out from there to the *DVI* input of the projector?

Now, I suppose I'd get the free 6' HDMI to HDMI cable, then buy a 25' HDMI to HDMI cable, then buy an adaptor that goes from HDMI to DVI.

Any thoughts?

Bob


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## Dbeistel (Dec 31, 2006)

Bob,

Will your receiver pass a 1080p signal from the OPPO 981 if so buy the HDMI to HDMI from OPPO to Receiver and then buy a 25' HDMI to DVI cable from the receiver to projector and skip the adapter.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

I thought about tha Dan, (I hate using adaptors), but I thought I'd future proof the wiring in case I upgrade to an HDMI projector someday. Not that the wire is that expensive, It's just a huge PITA to run wires from receiver to the PJ.
Don't know about the receiver and the 1080:scratch: . I assumed so since it was HDMI? I'll have to check the video specs again. (Later, because I'm running late for work :sarcastic: )

Bob


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

It may be too late, but the best future proof in the world is an empty 2 inch pipe...

Tip - if you use PVC, avoid sharp 90 deg turns - 2x 45 with a few inches between work great.
Tip - if you can't run a fish tape due to a 90 deg turn you could not avoid - hook up a vacuume on one end. and feed kite string through the other - the suction will pull it through. Once you have the string, use that to pull the 'real' wires.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Jack, that is very good advise. It is advise I tell people whenever I can. I did have a few spots with conduit, but not as many as I thought as I was going to need. When I started this room, I wasn't a forum member anywhere and didn't know I was going to tweek and tweek and tweek......:mooooh: 
My wife didn't expect this either :rant: :wits-end: :hush: 
HA HA HA:rofl2: 

Bob


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

I'll offer an opposing viewpoint yet again :R First off, why would you be running RCA audio from the dvd player to your receiver? You'll need digital coax or optical to transmit digital sound such as DD or DTS. Second, DVI and HDMI runs are transmitting signals over copper, and while 25' isn't that long, copper is definitely more prone to signal loss than fiberoptic cabling, that's why fiberoptic cabling and not copper is used to transmit signals across oceans. I'm also a bit weary of routing video through receivers even when the bandwidth is high....no facts to support a reason not to, just me being paranoid on that issue. My choice would be option #2, but my main objection here is that you shouldn't be using analog RCA cables from your dvd player to carry audio either way you go :T


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

> why would you be running RCA audio from the dvd player to your receiver?


I really don't know Steve.....:dontknow: 
...but I would fully expect for somebody to slap me real hard in the temple if I did that.:boxer: addle: :dizzy: 

The Oppo's have optical, (and I knew that), but I....Ahhh....Ummm...Well, I don't know what to say Steve. 
Anybody that runs RCA that far is...:coocoo: 

The unit will be hear on Saturday (the 981). It will be in the rack using all digital IC's.:yes: 

Bob


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Please don't laugh at me....:rofl: 

:bigsmile: Bob


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

You might want to consider using the coaxial output for your audio instead of optical. There are trade offs to be sure but overall I think there is better sound using coaxial connections for digital audio.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Bob said:


> I really don't know Steve.....





> Please don't laugh at me....


Not at all, no worries :T 



jackfish said:


> There are trade offs to be sure but overall I think there is better sound using coaxial connections for digital audio.


Unless one cable is defective, they will sound identical, as there will be no difference in the signal the processor is receiving. The advantages optical has are that it can't carry a ground loop and isn't as prone to signal loss. For all intents and purposes though, either one will work just fine.


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

SteveCallas said:


> ... why would you be running RCA audio from the dvd player to your receiver? ... my main objection here is that you shouldn't be using analog RCA cables from your dvd player to carry audio either way you go :T


If the player can play back either SACD's or DVD-Audio -then you need both Analog and digital cables - as those audio formats are typically decoded in the player and not in the reciever (there are a few exceptions, but it is rare/$$$) This 6 channel analog output goes to the 6 channel input thats on most newer receivers.

Length of audio cables isn't a factor - the DVD player is likely to be in the equipment rack with the receiver so only short analog cables are needed. you're not running audio to the projector....

And of course you'd still want the digital cable so your reciever can decode the Dolby Digital or DTS signals.

- Jack


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

SteveCallas said:


> Unless one cable is defective, they will sound identical, as there will be no difference in the signal the processor is receiving. The advantages optical has are that it can't carry a ground loop and isn't as prone to signal loss. For all intents and purposes though, either one will work just fine.


Maybe to your ears. 



> Optical (or Toslink as it is sometimes known) tends to introduce a considerable amount of digital jitter. What is jitter? Think of jitter as a miss-timing of the digital data. All the "1" and "0" of the digital data are the same but their time relationships have changed. Jitter messes up the word clock. Any digital output has digital jitter, it's just a question of how much. Optical has the highest jitter.





> This is a fact with digital datastreams where the word and bit clocks are embedded in the audio data. Toslink's more limited bandwidth shifts the transition timings, which define the difference between "1"s and "0"s on an AES3 or S/PDIF datastream.





> The problem with TosLink is that the bandwidth is insufficient to allow the timing of the data transmission to be retained. Bandwidth limiting causes timing errors in the zero voltage crossings used by the DAC to determine the timing of the signal.
> 
> I think the confusion some have is that bandwidth in this context has nothing to do with how much data is being transferred. In the context of an audio digital interface the frequency bandwidth is like voltage slew rate. An infinitely high frequency bandwidth would allow an interface to pass a perfect square wave of 1’s and 0’s with absolutely vertical “legs”. However when the bandwidth is too low, such as with TosLink, the legs become skewed in reference to time, causing timing errors.
> 
> ...





> The numbers are there to prove the jitter argument. Besides, why waste time converting from electrical to optical and back if you don't have to? Open up any single box disk player and I highly doubt you'll find even one that uses optical connections internally. The TOSLINK optical really only makes sense on portable equipment where space is a concern. Otherwise just use the coax. The bandwidth argument is kind of silly as well when we're talking about digital signals in two different domains- optical and electrical. Maybe you can squeeze more bits through the optical over long distances but if it's a 1 or 2 ft. piece of cable carrying relatively low bandwidth digital audio signals whats the use of converting the data stream into the higher bandwidth optical just to send it a foot or two to another component and change it back again? This one just seems to be a no brainer. If the signal were somehow kept in the optical domain from the disk to the jacks it might make sense I guess. Speaking of which, another issue with optical is the typically very poor jacks that don't really make very nice connections and probably introduce "optical impedance errors" where say, a glass fiber has a slightly different optical characteristic than a polymer one. By the way, if TOSLINK optical is so great why haven't the computer companies jumped on the bandwagon?


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

basementjack said:


> If the player can play back either SACD's or DVD-Audio -then you need both Analog and digital cables - as those audio formats are typically decoded in the player and not in the reciever (there are a few exceptions, but it is rare/$$$) This 6 channel analog output goes to the 6 channel input thats on most newer receivers.
> 
> Length of audio cables isn't a factor - the DVD player is likely to be in the equipment rack with the receiver so only short analog cables are needed. you're not running audio to the projector....
> 
> ...


I believe the Oppo DVD players will send an encoded signal through the digital audio outputs, so if your receiver can decode the Dolby Digital or DTS signal you can get by with just a digital audio connection, even for DVD-A, DVD-V, SACD. However, the Oppo 971 does not do SACD or DVD-A, the 970 and 981 do.


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

the 971 plays DVD-Audio discs.
to hear DVD-Audio - you would need to use the analog cables.

(the 981 plays both DVD-Audio and SACD)

Bob, if you're not thinking of getting into DVD-Audio - (there aren't many DVD-Audio titles out there.) this wouldn't be much of an issue - 

as for the optical vs wired digital connection - If you have the inputs, use both and see if you hear a difference.

All this said, I think you'd be far better off with something like the Toshiba HD-A2 for around $390.
all reports are that the Toshiba does an excellent job of scaling regular DVD's.

My logic here, is that if you're going to spend $200 on an oppo DVD player, then you're incremental cost to get HD-DVD is minimal - an extra $190 or so., and HD-DVD's look just amazing (Far better than a regular DVD on even the most expensive DVD player)

HD-DVD's also have better sound quality than regular DVD's.

I know there's also blue-ray, and if there was a $400 Blue ray player, that upscaled DVD's I'd go over some pros and cons, but right now there isn't.

Or course it's possible that Blu-Ray might win over HD-DVD - that risk doesnt bother me personally.
I take the risk in perspective to other things I have to pay for. I pay $900 a year for satellite tv service for my family ($75/mo) - and thats not even HD. So If I spend $900 this year on a player and 25 movies, and I GET TO KEEP IT ALL I'm no worse off... 

Also think about the above in relation to the whole cable debate too - you would not spend a ton of time worrying about a cable for a cassette player or 8 track, becuase you know that even with a cheap cable, the CD will sound better. Same thing here too..


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

All valid points Jack. But I have a question: Why is the Toshiba HD-A2 better than the 981?
I've already ordered the 981 and it should be here Saturday (tomorrow). I went with the 981 for the overall video quality these units have based their reputation on. The 981 being HD is just a bonus. Officially I didn't buy the 981 _BECAUSE_ it's HD, I'm actually still waiting for "the format war" to be over, I don't want a shelf full of LD discs and beta tapes, you know. I feel slightly sodomized over the years from technology moving forward leaving me and my hardware/software it it's wake. I've given my son my Sega Genesis for God's sake. Remember the Commodore 64? Atari 2400? Yea, too many times over the years I've spent money only for it to be obsolete in a mere few years. Call me bitter, call me a tight wad, but I've commited to (attempting) to only buy things that will stay with me for a long time.

I'll use the optical outputs. I guess I was in the middle of a brain fart when I typed that I was considering using analog RCA's for a 25' run. Jeez...I'm glad that'll be saved for the archives.:rolleyesno: 
...feel like a dork after that comment. I didn't even realize I had said that until Steve called me on it. I'll bet everyone that read the original post thought, "This guys a dumb---"

Bob - a mere mortal and very humble


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

The 981 isn't HD in the sense that it can play high definition dvds, whether it be HD-DVD or Blue Ray, it can simply upscale the resolution of current 480 dvds to 720p or 1080i, essentially what your 720p projector is already doing. The Oppo will just be using better scalers. You'll want to set the Oppo to scale to 720p when being sent to your 720p projector. In addition to using better scalers, you'll eliminate some nonessential conversions that are taking place in your video chain - 360 converts digital info to analog to send over component cables, then your LCD prjector converts analog signal back to digital. With the Oppo and a HDMI or DVI cable, the signal will stay digital throughout.

As for the Toshiba HD unit, I've read several reviews in which the loading and navigation time is horribly slow. And I don't know what Bob's stance is, but in my opinion, by the time the format issue settles down and the average cost of the new discs drop (what is it now, $30?), a better quality HD player for much less will be available anyway. In the meantime, well upscaled sd dvds don't exactly look like **** :R


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

Steve, your first paragraph was very informative, thank you. I _THOUGHT_ the **** thing _WAS_ HighDef! :sarcastic: Thanks for clearing that up for me. Oh well, I was mainly interested in the video chip everyone raves about. 
My stance is about the same as yours as it appears regarding the HD thing, but like I said, I'll wait for the end of the war to make a high dollar choice.
As far as my SD rig goes, I'm pretty impressed with the video quality, if I do say so myself.
Not to put you on the spot Steve, but what did you think of the video quality the other day? I didn't tell you, and I won't ask a loaded question, but the screen material is from a fabric store. It's drapery material. It was the only resonably priced screen I could find that didn't have a seam and would cover 55 square feet.
Just curious.

Bob

p.s. {check your PM's}


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## jmprader (Apr 19, 2006)

Point of order, especially for those just lurking. It did not appear to be clarified anywhere in this thread, but...

You cannot use optical or coax to pass SACD or DVD-audio from your 981 (or any other SACD or DVD-A player) to your receiver.

Analog outs from the 981 will pass the post-processed signal for all formats. The HDMI should work with DVD-audio (I believe it's a 1.1 spec) from the 981, but SACD requires 1.2, I think.

Future HD discs (includes BD) will require 1.3 spec gear to get the full benes of HD audio and video...

Check here for some further info/clarification, cuz I'm just an old fart with a bad habit:

http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp

Hope this helps, no threadjacking was intended.


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

Hey Bob, 

I think Steve pointed out what my logic was - 

sure theres lots of reasons to wait on the sidelines and see who's going to win,

but in your case, since you've already committed to spending 200+ on the oppo - adding HD-DVD at this point is less than $200. I'm not sure if you understand my logic or not...

I think the Oppo will be awesome - my concern was that you'd get it, then visit a fellow HT enthusiasts home and see HD-DVD on the big screen and think "Shoot, I only needed to spend another $180 and I could be watching THIS!"

I'd actually love to see the oppo side by side with the Toshiba A2 - I really don't know if they are comparable - only that people have been VERY happy with both. 

I myself would like to get a new DVD player for my SD collection (I don't feel my PJ does the best job of upscaling) and the OPPO is at the top of my list of upscaling SD players. 

I think you're going to be really happy with the OPPO and you're not at much of a loss for waiting out the HD-DVD formats.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

John - I've read quite a bit of that web site. Very informative, good stuff. I've learned lots from them.
Personally, I'm not interested in SACD or DVD-audio, for the same reasons as HD: I'm waiting for "them" to descide whether or not it's a viable format. :waiting: In the mean time, I'll just sit back, relax and watch everyone else spent their money, time, and effort on another (possibly) futile expenditure. :spend: 
I can wait. I'm very patient. 
No appologies needed either John. No threadjacking was commited.

Jack - Good points. All of them. I understand your point about "uping the ante" and going with the A2. However at this point in my room, I'm still building (equipment that is) and am being very frugal on where the money goes. Not a single thing is the lastest and greatest in technology (except the receiver which had an MSRP of $1,500 but I paid a fraction of that [...Yes, it was legal]). I'm patient enough to wait for the super cool stuff to come down in price. It'll all fall fast enough. 
Well ok, I did pay full MSRP on the 360, but I didn't see the price coming down any time soon.
Yea I've been to other folks house and thought, "Wow, _THAT's COOL_", but on the drive back home I thought about what I could buy with the difference in price between theirs and mine. And in the end,...how much better was it? Again, I can wait. I'm NOT a rich man. I feel very lucky to be able to have the toys I've got (and a wife that tolorates them AND me :bigsmile: )
So far, I don't feel like I've bad choices. I'm pretty happy with my toys. In the mean time, I'll watch the format wars from my 140" projector I paid $999 for new, about a year ago. :yes:

I'd LOVE to have true HD/Digital everything in my room, but the finances are maxxed with my hobby as it is. Slowly, one step at a time and I'll get there, you just won't see me in the front of the "New Tech" line with cash in hand, you know?

Good conversation guys! :T Lots of knowledge here.:yes: 

Bob


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Bob said:


> Not to put you on the spot Steve, but what did you think of the video quality the other day? I didn't tell you, and I won't ask a loaded question, but the screen material is from a fabric store. It's drapery material. It was the only resonably priced screen I could find that didn't have a seam and would cover 55 square feet.
> Just curious.


Just last Friday I calibrated a friend's Sanyo Z5 on 114" of material from a fabric store with an Oppo 981, and for reference, I'm coming from a Westy 42" 1080p LCD. To be honest, I wasn't really paying too much attention to the video quality when I was at your place, but I definitely was during my friend's calibration. He was very happy with the end result, and it looked quite good - color balance and vibrancy were spot on, but the main issue for me was that contrast ratio was a bit less than what I was used to. When holding up small sections of high gain material, the whites got much better, but then the blacks got worse. Additionally, and I don't know if it was the Oppo, the Sanyo, the 50' HDMI cable, or the discs being used, but I was seeing some macroblocking, even after shrinking screen size down to 78". I don't know where the Z5 ranks among projectors, but I still see room for improvement compared to a LCD panel, and LCD panels still have room for improvement in contrast ratio themselves. In terms of color vibrancy however, I think LCD is untouchable.

When you get the Oppo and want to recalibrate, I'd be willing to help out if you want.


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## Bob in St. Louis (Oct 21, 2006)

A Z5! Now I'm jealous. :yes: Those came out about one year after I bought my Z2. Nice!

One of these days, I'd like to get "real" screen material, maybe something with a slight gain to it since I've pretty well maxxed out the throw distance.

**** yea, you can help set it up! Here's what FedEx says:

---- Feb 24, 2007 5:45 AM At local FedEx facility EARTH CITY, MO ---

The unit will be here today, What time will you be here?!?! :yikes: :rofl: 
Just kidding Steve.

If you want, the day Bryan has his 'get-together', you can come over here early??

Bob


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

basementjack said:


> Quote:
> SteveCallas wrote:
> ... why would you be running RCA audio from the dvd player to your receiver? ... my main objection here is that you shouldn't be using analog RCA cables from your dvd player to carry audio either way you go
> 
> ...





jmprader said:


> Point of order, especially for those just lurking. It did not appear to be clarified anywhere in this thread, but...
> 
> You cannot use optical or coax to pass SACD or DVD-audio from your 981 (or any other SACD or DVD-A player) to your receiver.
> 
> ...


basementjack and jmprader, what about setting the DV-970HD _SPDIF Output_ to _PCM_ or the DV-981HD _Digital Output_ to _PCM_ which forces a stereo down-mixed digital signal out the digital outputs. I'm not thinking so much about a multichannel output but a stereo output to go through a separate DAC to a preamp/integrated amp/receiver for stereo music only. SACD and DVD-A will absolutely not work output this way?


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## jmprader (Apr 19, 2006)

jackfish said:


> basementjack and jmprader, what about setting the DV-970HD _SPDIF Output_ to _PCM_ or the DV-981HD _Digital Output_ to _PCM_ which forces a stereo down-mixed digital signal out the digital outputs. I'm not thinking so much about a multichannel output but a stereo output to go through a separate DAC to a preamp/integrated amp/receiver for stereo music only. SACD and DVD-A will absolutely not work output this way?


Certainly if you want to down-mix from hi-res x.1 sources to stereo, you have options...

My post was to clarify that a simple digital connection, whether optical, coax or some HDMI implementation, does not insure a user can enjoy the full audio capabilities of a given software source. IMHO, Oppo's are a great consumer value, but they (as well as 99% of other similar products) are not capable of supporting certain formats. It does strike me as out of the ordinary to think of using an Oppo or other produce to upconvert a 480p signal and concurrently/alternatively downconvert an audio signal, whether it be a lossles HD audio format or from DVD-A or SACD formats to 2 channel. 

My post was somewhat off topic. I think further discussion/clarification of this might be more appropriate if taken up in another thread.

Cheers.


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## basementjack (Sep 18, 2006)

The big problem in this is that SACD and DVDA store data at a higer sampling rate, with more samples per second than the standard digital connections used in today's Receivers.

Since SACD, and DVDA are both 'high end' formats and are generally hard to find, it's assumed that someone who's taken the trouble to do so would like more than 44.1khz/16bit sound - which can easily and cheaply be found on CD's.
Many DVD-A's have sound in 192khz/24bit format - and to resolve that level of detail digitally you'd need a compatible digital transmission system for both the player and the receiver - some companies offer this in thier high end products - I believe Denon does for example, but this is not a feature of low end players or receivers at this time.

So the leftover, more common option, is for a player manufacturer to include some form of built in DA converter that outputs Analog, and for an end user to connect that analog out to the analog in of the receiver.


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