# CSS Quartet12 (TRIO12) H



## caper26

*CSS Quartet12 (TRIO12) H in 24" Cube*

Hi all. First woodworking project is a DIY subwoofer from Creative Sound Solutions. 
The kit is the 

CSS QUARTET12(TRIO12)H, which is a TRIO 12" woofer and 
2 opposing 12" passive radiators,
powered by a SPA500 Amp.
The cabinet used is a 24" cube vice the 20". Since volume was not a real issue and low frequency extension was, Mike P ran some models and the result was the 24" had advantages at lower frequencies:


> The 24" cube has the advantage below 23 hz.
> 
> The 20" cube produces 106 db,
> the 24" cube produces just about 110 db, a 4 db advantage.
> at 18 hz.
> 
> 102 db for 20" cube,
> 108 db for the 24" cube, a 6 db advantage.


.


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## caper26

Opening up the boxes!
 
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Picture of the amp all packed nicely.
 
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Cutting the driver and PR holes with a rotozip. 
 
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Using an oscillating spindle sander to bring the edges to the correct diameter:
 

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The front and sides all finished and dry fitted:
 

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The center brace on the bandsaw. This thing cuts much faster than a rotozip!!


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## caper26

Got a little more work done today. Sorry about the pictures but I forgot my camera and had to use my cell phone... I cut the baffle sheet and the hole, and sanded it out to fit. I will round it inward tomorrow and glue it to the front panel:
 

I also got a lot of the holes for the metal inserts drilled. I started with a counter sink for the insert flange. 
 
Ran into a slight problem in that the 24" panels wouldn't reach the bit under the drill press. I will have do do a few of them by hand. Here is the hole with flange:


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## Mike P.

It's coming along fine. I give you credit for cutting circles with a rotozip, that would be a challenge!


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## caper26

Mike P. said:


> It's coming along fine. I give you credit for cutting circles with a rotozip, that would be a challenge!


Yeah, the one blade that was left for the jigsaw was ruined by someone and wouldn't cut, and we didn't realize there were no spares left, so instead of wasting time going shopping, I just used the rotozip...  I made sure I was about 1/8" inside the line to allow for "error" and then sanded it out with the spindle sander...nice piece of kit that is!


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## caper26

*Day 4*

Baffle routered...:
 
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...then glued & clamped:
 
Glued in all the metal inserts with Gorilla. There is a bit of bleed out over time so they need to be wiped a few times. Wipe inward:
   
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Passive Radiator checking for screw alignment...everything is lined up nicely:


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## caper26

Got the braces assembled to the top & bottom. I used screws and glue so that I could remove the clamps and put the back on too. Tomorrow I will put the sides on:
  
In the pic below, the cabinet is on its side, the top is on the left side.


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## caper26

*Day 6*

Sides put on today....starting to look like a subwoofer now!!


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## caper26

*Day 7*

Got the front baffle put on this afternoon! The last piece! Yeah!
 

So I guess the next step is to put hot glue on all the inside seams? I still haven't got an answer yet on lining it either...is it required? An about how much bed liner is required to finish it? 2 quarts?


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## caper26

Just ordered a gallon of DuraTexRG and picked up some primer/sealer at Home Hardware


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## caper26

Duratex came in today (already!). The cabinet is all hot glued on the inside. Just have to round edges, install inserts for feet, and start priming!! When is a good time to start some testing?


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## Mike P.

Are you referring to driver and PR break in?


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## caper26

no, I meant, on other build threads, I see everything all assembled before the cabinet is finished/painted. Should I do that?


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## Mike P.

I always test the sub before finishing the cabinet just to verify everything is working properly.


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## caper26

ok great. 

Do you fully mount the amp (considering they are just wood screws and you really dont want to be isntalling/removing those from MDF).
and do you bring an amp to the shop, since it is probably easier than bringing the sub home, lol. ??


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## Mike P.

If you're careful and don't over torque the screws it will be fine, I never had a problem.


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## nht1259

caper26 said:


> Just ordered a gallon of DuraTexRG and picked up some primer/sealer at Home Hardware


I used the duratex with no primer or sealer, and it worked fine. I do recommend using some flat blac spray paint around the recessed baffle areas, however. It is hard to get in there with the duratex roller.


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## caper26

I just planned on using a brush there. I am pretty good at feathering and blending


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## caper26

*Live Update*

I wasn't getting much done now that everyone is back to work, so I took it home and started finishing it today; Also, probably better to do it near the wood stove too, keeping a low fire going.
 
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Primer on all sides except the top. I am going to apply the Duratex to the bottom and wait for it to dry so I can do the top and sides all in one go.


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## caper26

OK, I am calling it a night. I am not a fan of this Duratex. I could not attain an "orange peel" effect no matter what I tried... different roller brushes, different thicknesses... oh well, it is what it is now! :dontknow:


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## Mike P.

Looks good to me from the pics.


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## caper26

Well, put it all together and tested it out. It hits low notes pretty good but, sadly, there is a weird noise coming out of it 60 Hz and up, a vibration of some sort :dontknow: just great. anyway, here a few final pics...lighting sucks in my basement so they aren't the best:


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## caper26

oh yeah, and my cable is giving a really bad noise throughout my Ht ONLY when I connect the sub cable to the amp on the sub...weird thing is that the noise isn't only coming from the sub, but ALL speakers... :hissyfit:


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## mose

Check out the vids in this thread. It that the weird noise you are getting?

Other thread

The other issue sounds like a ground loop. Do a search and you should be able to resolve it.

...mose


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## caper26

Yeah, thats the noise...the first few song tests, it was exactly like that poster said : "kick drum notes", so I picked some songs that didn't have such strong kick drum, then it would make that noise with higher freq bass notes, so I did some tones, and up to 50 is fine, but when 60 Hz or more is played, it makes that ugly sound.


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## mose

Pull the driver and grab the basket to confirm it's the same issue. The fix is really easy to do yourself. See that same thread.

...mose


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## caper26

OK. I will actually pull one of the PRs and reach in since the connecting wires from the amp are taught since the box is 24" deep.  So basically play something which makes the noise, and grab the basket, which is the metal part that goes from the mounting area to the magnet?, and see if it goes away.?? I will look at the fix, but I would rather have a properly working driver instead of hacking away at this one not really knowing what I am doing  I will check it tomorrow since I am work now until late tonight. Thanks for the reply and advice... I thought it was my cabinet and I was really ticked. Cheers.

EDIT: Got home from work a lot earlier than expected. Will have a look at it soon and report back.


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## caper26

ugh, I pulled the PR and pressed on the back of the magnet and the buzzing goes away. The louder I play it, it seems I can't push hard enough to make it stop, but I really have no leverage from the side. It is a really nasty buzzing sound..
.
.

As a side note, the closed cell weatherstrip *really *sticks to the finish of the Duratex. There is no way ANY air is getting out around the driver or PRs. I had to PRY the PR out!


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## mose

Shoot an email to Bob as CSS as a first step. He was very helpful and accommodating. He said superglue alone is successful as a repair; what I did was my own overkill. It's worth a try as it's much easier than shipping and waiting for a replacement in my opinion. 

I've been abusing mine for months with no further issues.

...mose


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## caper26

mose said:


> Shoot an email to Bob as CSS as a first step. He was very helpful and accommodating. He said superglue alone is successful as a repair; what I did was my own overkill. It's worth a try as it's much easier than shipping and waiting for a replacement in my opinion.
> 
> I've been abusing mine for months with no further issues.
> 
> ...mose


Do you have the PRs as well? With the PRs installed, the bass is reduced to almost nothing and that "noise" is 10 times worse. When I take the PR off, it is like I just turned on the sub and it comes alive and the buzzing noise from the driver is lessened, by a LOT. I have no experience in speaker repair or anything, or even in depth knowledge on the driver assembly itself, but I am guessing the work it needs to do when the box is sealed is being compromised by this "glue defect" ? Thoughts?


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## mose

If you listen to the vids I posted you may be able to notice that the 'noise' was WAY worse when it was sealed in the cabinet.

I'm far from an expert as well. But I assume that this has to do with the entire resonating system as a whole. The force pushing on the magnet that makes it rattle is opposite to the force on the voice coil that moves the cone. In free air, there's less resistance to moving the cone, so hence less force pushing back on the magnet. But in the cabinet, the cone has to work against compressing the air in the box, which results in more force pushing back on the magnet. This would affect the frequency and magnitude where the rattle happens. (Newton's 3rd law about equal but opposite reactions???)

...mose


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## caper26

Yep, definitely the driver.

With the PR off, it is more of a buzzing noise. Goes away with pressure on magnet.
With PR on, it is way worse. To make sure, I put my arm in the PR hole, and covered the rest of the hole with a piece of plastic foam (it was the packing from the PR). This way I could recreate the noise and press on the magnet at the same time. It worked. It is the same problem. I think I will post a vid too.


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## caper26

For some reason, youtube elongated the video vertically. Anyway, here is the noise:


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## caper26

*UPDATE*

Finally some progress and success! 
The "glue fix" worked. I let the first 'coat' dry fully for a few hours, and then looked closely and saw 2 places where the gap may not have been totally filled, so I went around it again before bed and let it sit all night.
I tested it out this morning.... WOW! I know my little MA sub can really perform for its size, but this thing can really dig. I don't even have it in the corner yet because I still have to move my bar fridge out of there. Finally I smiled, continuously. I must say I was getting exhausted form disappointment. It still isn't perfect though. 

There seems to be a rattle or vibration from within the amp itself, right behind the rocking power switch.
There is still the "cable tv" hum/buzz present, although it goes away if plugged in without the 3rd (ground) prong. I tried other outlets around the room, but no luck (probably all on the same circuit).

Some of the songs I threw at it were some dance stuff from the 90's
Humpty Dance
Whooomp
Come Baby Come
and others...
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Some metal:
Metallica, etc
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And Billy Jean. the bass sounded full and tight and not boomy at all. I also played "Subwoofer Mix" and it hit every note pretty much with authority.


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## ALMFamily

Good to hear you made some progress - hopefully you have as much luck with resolving those other issues. Nice work! :T


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## caper26

*Project Costs*

Here is an estimate of my totals. I will round to the nearest $5 for ease.

Parts: Trio12 driver, 2 PRs, plate amp, floor spikes, and all mounting hardware: $600 including shipping and taxes.
Sheet of MDF: $40
Glue sticks: $5
Gorilla Glue: $5
Primer: $10 (See Note 1)
Duratex Cabinet finish: $80 with tax & shipping
Say $10 for shop supplies (Carpenter's Glue, wood screws, sandpaper, nylon nuts, etc)
Weatherstrip: $10
That's a total of : $760
.

I also joined the wood hobby club specifically for this, so my personal total would include:
Membership to wood hobby club: $75
.

My grand total: *$835*
.
Note 1 = Primer is not required. I wasn't sure how much duratex would be needed, but there is about 3/4 gal left over and it is self priming, so I could have used that instead.


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## Mike P.

> There seems to be a rattle or vibration from within the amp itself, right behind the rocking power switch.



Has this issue been resolved?

​


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## caper26

Mike P. said:


> Has this issue been resolved?
> 
> ​


Was still doing it last night, so I gave it a friendly love tap in around that area. It may be temporarily gone for now. If it returns, I assume I can open up the amp and secure anything that might be loose with hot glue or zip tie?
Also, what is your take on the crossover knob having no effect. It isn't cutting off upper freqs like it is supposed to.


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## Mike P.

Are you getting more high frequencies through this sub than you were through your MA sub?


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## caper26

I don't believe so. I think the XO in the receiver is sending the right freqs to sub (120 & below) but adjusting the subs knob down to 30 should only play the really low stuff,. On the MA, as music was playing you could hear the difference in the bass by lowering the XO on the sub. This XO knob seems to do nothing at all when lowered all the way


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## Mike P.

There's something loose inside the amp and the low pass isn't working. I suggest you contact Bob and have the amp replaced.


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## caper26

Turns out the low pass circuit is by-passed when LFE input jack is used. Why this wasn't mentioned in the crossover section of the manual is beyond me 
Time to take some pictures of sub once I get it in place, and will also take one with the MA beside it... it is small but still mighty, but this one is bigger and mightier !


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## Mike P.

I was unaware the amp has separate L + R inputs as well as a LFE input. Glad that issue is resolved! Now it's just a question of what the rattle is in the amp. It may well be an easy fix.


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## caper26

*Weigh-In!*

...and fighting out of the Blue Corner, weighing in at 122 lbs ... !! :clap:


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## ALMFamily

Niiiiiice - new pics!!! :bigsmile:


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## caper26

*SPL readings*

 

Here are some SPL readings I took at 1 meter with sub located as per photo above. 

I used a Realistic (Radio Shack) digital SPL meter model 33-2055. 
I had re-run YPAO prior to readings, and had gain on sub's amp at 11 o'clock.
The sub's "EQ Level" knob was set to the ZERO mark and other EQ knobs set to min settings.(therefore removing any EQing by the amp)
Receiver volume was brought close to or at "0".
I used correction values for the meter found [HERE]. No decimals used. 0.5 or higher was rounded up. 0.4 and below was dropped.
Read in 3 columns: Frequency -- Raw SPL reading -- corrected SPL value

Freq --- SPL --- Corrected
16 Hz -- 91 dB -- 104 dB
18 Hz -- 103 dB -- 114 dB
20 Hz -- 109 dB -- 118 dB 
22 Hz -- 111 dB -- 119 dB
25 Hz -- 111 dB -- 118 dB
28 Hz -- 112 dB -- 117 dB
31.5Hz-- 110 dB -- 114 dB
35 Hz -- 105 dB -- 109 dB
40 Hz -- 102 dB -- 105 dB 
45 Hz -- 105 dB -- 107 dB


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## Mike P.

118 db at 20 hz from a single 12", that's excellent performance from a $150 driver. :T


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## caper26

At the *LP *I was able to get:

*20 Hz* -- 105 dB -- *114 dB *
*22 Hz* -- 103 dB -- *111 dB*
*25 Hz* -- 104 dB -- *111 dB*
*28 Hz* -- 107 dB -- *112 dB*

Meter on a tripod behind the recliner (which was reclined) but slightly above, like where your head would be, angled toward the corner above the sub. Sub facing out of corner.


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## Mike P.

How far is the listening position from the sub?


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## caper26

about 10' or 3 meters


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## caper26

First graph. Receiver Crossed over at 120 on this one so the higher freq big dip is where the sub may be rolling off and the speakers are not able to produce there. I have a AVR with no banana plugs so it isn't easy to "turn off" mains and then turn them back on when i am done. I will do this, just not tonight and get a pure sub graph. Note the dip at 22 Hz. Boosting the EQ had no effect on this dip, so perhaps it is a null. The measurements were taken with sub in the place where I want it... no crawl test yet. 

One possible solution is to change the tuning via the PR discs.


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## caper26

I am assuming that dip at 71 is due to a bad XO of the sub and "mains" or a bad run of the PEQ. I would like to get some more readings soon, but the bathroom has taken priority at this time. I might try running mains as Large as well to see what effect it has. 
Also, I think I will be adding a SDX10 in the near future, and another maybe next year, and run those near the LP on either side or across the front sounstage... we'll see.


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## caper26

Added some wheels to the bottom. I got tired of muscling this thing around:


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## bgarcia17

Just wondering if you ever got to improve your FR? I have a very similar dip at around 60Hz. What have you tried, and what were the results?


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## caper26

I havent tried moving the sub around, so I dont know if it is driver related or room related or cabinet related or... so to answer your question : no I havent improved it yet... but I will be adding a SDX10 to the room when I get a chance to build it. It is still in all the packaging...which is like giving a child a present at Christmas and tell them not to open until Easter!!!  Have you played with the XO of your receiver, etc?


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## bgarcia17

I haven't done anything either, lost my REW setup when I changed laptops. And just been too lazy to get it going again. Plus, it's not always easy to spend a day or two running sweeps just to see what helps and whatnot. I'm sure you know what I mean. I am adding a 'midbass' sub to my setup. My IB will be dedicated to the really low stuff, and hoping my corner-loaded sub will add the bit of punch that I'm lacking. It's presently a dayton dvc15 with a CSS pr, tuned about 32Hz. But I'm also going to try a Dayton 15" PA woofer, tuned to about 50Hz. I'll have the option to feed them their own bandwidth, or be able to overlap if needed. I'll get my REW setup going again once I'm ready to get serious with it.

Great sub, btw. I really like CSS products.


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