# Emotiva



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Just orderd the XPA-5. I'm stoked, my wife is gonna kill me and i can't wait. Sure hope it is as great as the reviews i've read say it is. I couldn't pass up the 4th of july deal and for 719 deliverd how could i go wrong. At least thats what i'll tell my wife i hope she understands, looks like overtime here i come.:devil:

So next thing i need are good quality cheap interconnects, i was gonna get the ones Emotiva offers but they only have one style of the stereo RCA's so i thought i'd shop around abit, anybody have advice as to where to get nice ones at a fair price?:sn:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Congrats on the XPA-5. Really is a great value and will be an nice upgrade. For Cables, check out BlueJeansCable.Com or Monoprice. Also, HCM Audio has pretty good deals on IC's as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

LOL! Bambino that is funny! I have the fever as badly as you do and I am the wife. My husband loves the end result so he doesn't get bent out of shape. I have wondered if there are any other ladies on this site or if I am the lone ranger. Doesn't matter....I feel right at home. Good luck with your wife. Lol


Robin


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Robin, I would guess there are not very many Corvette Driving, Outboard Amplifier purchasing Girls on many A/V Forums. But there should be...
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

JJ,

Right on! I aim to be different. By the way, I checked out some paradigm today but their selection was not good. I honestly can't recall what they were but it seems like he said Studio 60's. I don't know why but he put a disc in and disconnected the sub. They didn't have a screen in that room for me to check out the surround sound. They sell alot of Klipsch and, in fact, the Klipsch rep was there. He wants me to check out a speaker they have coming out in mid August. I'm going to listen to as many as I can. I've learned it's best not to be in a hurry.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

What price range are you looking for on your ICs?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Indeed. Patience is truly a virtue when it comes to finding the best Speakers. I would definitely check out Focal, Dynaudio, B&W, and others before deciding.

Any Rep is definitely going to be an advocate for whatever Brand they represent. Klipsch makes a quality Speaker. By virtue of Klipsch's being Horn Loaded, they are much more efficient than most Speakers. Not all people prefer Horn Loaded Speakers and with you having an Power Amplifier, you have more latitude than most as some Speakers really need an Amplifier to sound their best.
Cheers,
JJ


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

JJ gives good advice with that amp you have many options for speakers. The amp is a great value it has 200wpc and that is with all channels driven, most of your AVRs show specs like the Onkyo NR8007 135wpc but thats with only 2 channels driven, it will get nowhere near 135wpc with ALL channels driven. So be patient and try and get a listen to some different speakers powered by YOUR amp even if you have to take it with you to audition them.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Thank you dwr. That is what I am going to do. I also have a Proceed 3 channel amp that I use for my center channel and I love that amp even if it is 15 yrs old. It weighs more than I do. Lol


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> LOL! Bambino that is funny! I have the fever as badly as you do and I am the wife. My husband loves the end result so he doesn't get bent out of shape. I have wondered if there are any other ladies on this site or if I am the lone ranger. Doesn't matter....I feel right at home. Good luck with your wife. Lol
> 
> 
> Robin


Thats awesome having a women on the site! I was kinda wondering the same thing about if there are any women that frequent audio sites glad it's finnally been confirmed.:clap: As for my wife she will get over it or me and our audio stuff will be living in the shed.:sn:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Robin, I would use the Proceed to drive your front 3 channels as it is actually a higher quality Amplifier than the Adcom. Especially if it is the HPA3. Made in America by the same folks who build Mark Levinson Amplifiers.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

dwr said:


> What price range are you looking for on your ICs?


Might sound kinda cheap but i'd like to stay in the $20 range, i only need 1 meter pairs but kinda of am second guessing that as 2 meters would give me plenty of play for future rearangment of equipment.:scratch:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Lol bambino! All you have to do is soundproof your shed and bingo!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks for all the quick advice on the cables guys and gal, i need to make a decision soon as i'm expecting the amp to be here by the end of next week.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
BlueJeansCable should have something available for that amount. If you really want to spend less, check out this:http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> Lol bambino! All you have to do is soundproof your shed and bingo!


I'm golden, i'm gonna start packing my stuff up tonight for the big move.:R


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> BlueJeansCable should have something available for that amount. If you really want to spend less, check out this:http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218
> Cheers,
> JJ


Thanks Jack i'll check that out after i get done with my addiction here.:sn:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Yep that is exactly what it is JJ. I actually bought that amp with a Levinson amp [332 I think??] and it was flat out the best amp I have ever seen and absolutely the heaviest. It ran aerial 10t's. Wow do I miss that set up but we had a bump in the road and had to sell it. Oh well, it is fun going through the process of building it back up. I have learned that the processors today make such a difference. These new receivers are another world altogether.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I meant to ask JJ and anybody else, what speaker cables do you use?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I use Kimber Kable 8TC with WBT Connectors. Really a big fan of Ray Kimber and it is one of the few Cable Companies which have excellent Resale Value.

Since you have a BPA3, it would be without doubt the Amplifier I would use for the Front Stage (Front Left, Center Channel, Front Right) and use the Adcom for the Surrounds. It really is an excellent Amplifier and Triple Mono Constructed. While I am guessing you are using it Bridged to drive your CC, it is more than capable of driving your Front Stage really well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Thanks on the cables JJ and yes that is how I am using the proceed amp. I am using the adcom for my surrounds which are Aerials and I am considering adding the surround back channels at some point. That should be fine for them.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Robin,
Aerial really are beautiful Speakers and sound great. With the Amplification you have, you might also want to Audition Martin Logan Electrostatic Speakers as well. Not the lower level Design Series they sell at the Magnolia HT in Best Buy, but the Reserve ESL Series and ESL Series that are available mostly at Independent A/V Stores.

In addition to Martin Logan, check out Revel Speakers. Again, I would try to find Dynaudio, Focal, and B&W Dealers as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

JJ, one more thing, link for where you get it? The only speaker wire available here is Monster and Radio Shack. ugh


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Robin,
Audio Advisor sells Kimber. However, I would call Read Brothers in Charleston, SC. I cannot remember their number, but they do ship items. I used to live there and purchased all my Kimber Kable there. They are unbelievably nice and can sometimes discount Kimber Kable. Hardly any other Dealers ever do so.

I would check out KimberKable.com and look at their offerings. Also Kimber is the US Distributor of German Built WBT Connectors. They are the best Connectors I have ever used or seen. WBT's are on megadollar Cables as well, but I choose to use a reasonably priced Speaker Cable like the 8TC and have Kimber custom build them with WBT's.
Cheers,
JJ


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

I use Clear Day Silver speaker cables on my main L & R, and AR 12ga oxygen free copper speaker wire on everything else. I also use 3 pairs of Clear Day Silver ICs with the rest being Audioquest King Cobra. FYI Z06gal Parts Express is running a clearance on the AR 12ga oxygen free cable right now $9.80 for 30' with pins if the 12ga is too big for connections on your system.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr, I am looking at Clear Day's site and wondered what the difference is b/w bi-wire and shotgun? Thanks.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

In a nutshell, biwire has 4 wires on the speaker end and 2 wires on the amp end and shotgun or biamp has 4 wires on both ends. So biwire makes 4 speaker connections from the two amp connections, where the shotgun has 4 connections all the way end to end.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
DWR, that is an excellent explanation of the differences between the 2. Clear Day looks like really nice Cable that is well priced. As we all know, there is Cabling out there that defies logic in its pricing.

When building an HT on a budget, Cabling is definitely something I place a fairly low priority on. There are instances when, due to length, HDMI quality can be an issue. In addition, having secure connections to the Speakers and AVR/Amplifiers is quite important as shorts can be disastrous. 

Bare Wire is perfectly fine provided the Connections are tight and occasionally redone due to oxidation. That being said, Preterminated Speaker Cable is a luxury. With some AVR/Amplifiers due to Binding Post configuration, it really is much easier to use Bananas. WBT's Locking Bananas are utterly fantastic in that they are a rock solid Connection. The same cannot be said of many other Banana Terminated Cables which can come loose quite easily. Spade Connectors are great, but only work for Amplifiers and Speakers. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

I agree with everything you said JJ. I use banana plugs exclusively, on my speaker cables, it is really a lot easier, especially when you move equipment around. As for the Clear Day cables. They are far and away the best of what I call realistically priced cables. I have various signal cable speaker and IC cables (nice stuff) and have some Speltz anti IC cables. I have never tried Blue Jean cables but they sure seem to have great pricing. When Bambino said he was looking to spend $20 on ICs I thought no way but Blue Jean cable seams to be the way to go for him. Back to the Clear Day cables, Paul the owner is one of the nicest guys you will ever deal with in the audio/video field. When I bought the silver ICs he sent me out a trial pair to evaluate in my system which did not take long, then he discounted my order by about $40 and let me keep the trial pair until my order arrived.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

When Bambino said he was looking to spend $20 on ICs I thought no way but Blue Jean cable seams to be the way to go for him. Back to the Clear Day cables, Paul the owner is one of the nicest guys you will ever deal with in the audio/video field. When I bought the silver ICs he sent me out a trial pair to evaluate in my system which did not take long, then he discounted my order by about $40 and let me keep the trial pair until my order arrived.[/QUOTE]

I knew that that were quality cables out there on the cheap but i was looking for other options, and you guys delivered. Still haven't had a chance to look at the bluejean cables but i plan too the monoprice ones just don't attract me so it's probly gonna be the bluejeans (once i look at them) or PE. 

As far as bananas go my budget does not allow for WBT's but they sure are nice. I never used to believe in spades or plugs for the ends of my wire as somewhere along the way it was instilled in me that they would get in the way of the signal chain, but that didnt last long, bananas are definantly the way to go as far as ease of installation and cosmetics, i do however still use bare wire on the speaker end :huh:. Just want to thank you all for your input and throw more at me if you have it, as for next wednsday, it won't be here soon enough. I am looking forward to my new toy.:T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Man I know what you mean about the wait, I ordered my speakers back on April 17th and I am hoping they will be ready for pickup on Tuesday but if they aren't. then it is going to be at least another week to 10 days as the builder is going to China for a bit. The wait is killing me.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Thank you dwr for that explanation. Crystal clear.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Man I know what you mean about the wait, I ordered my speakers back on April 17th and I am hoping they will be ready for pickup on Tuesday but if they aren't. then it is going to be at least another week to 10 days as the builder is going to China for a bit. The wait is killing me.



What brand are you getting? I am checking out speakers now.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Dr Earl Geddes is the builder, the model is the Abbey 12A. These are waveguide constant directivity speakers, you will have to go on his website for an explanation of the speakers and Dr Geddes philosophies on acoustics. This guy has studied acoustics in small rooms his entire life to go along with his Phd and his speakers are the best I have ever heard. I have owned Martin Logans in the past, and just sold my Linkwitz Orion++ system after auditioning the Geddes speakers. I am fortunate to live only 20 minutes from Dr Geddes so it was a short ride to hear his speakers. I have already implemented his theory on multiple subwoofers and the bass in my system is now the best I have ever had using 3 subs on the 2 channel and 5 subs on the H/T. Do a search on the web for Geddes speakers to get to the web site. You are getting some pretty good suggestions here also, I listened to some focal speakers at the AK fest which is the local audio equipment show here in the Detroit area and was very impressed with them.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow dwr! Awesome! have never heard of him but will check his out tonight. I am going to take my time figuring out what I want so what you are doing is very much of interest. Yes, the focals are nice but I want to hear everything I can. Thanks for the info.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

So are you getting the kit dwr? I will be interested to know how it sounds when you get it going.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

No problem, the most different thing about the Geddes speakers is that you listen off axis, so the right speaker is aimed to your left and the left speaker is aimed to your right in the listening position. It really takes some getting used to in your head (at least it did me) but the with constant directivity it all makes sense and it makes for a REAL wide "sweet spot" If you want me to explain why let me know. Otherwise check out his website. Do you listen to 2 channel more or H/T more?


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

No I bought them assembled and tested, he does a much better job on the finish on the cabinets than I could ever hope of doing.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> No problem, the most different thing about the Geddes speakers is that you listen off axis, so the right speaker is aimed to your left and the left speaker is aimed to your right in the listening position. It really takes some getting used to in your head (at least it did me) but the with constant directivity it all makes sense and it makes for a REAL wide "sweet spot" If you want me to explain why let me know. Otherwise check out his website. Do you listen to 2 channel more or H/T more?



I do h/t alot but am also getting more into music in 5.1. I would love for you to explain why also what is a "waveguide with a foam plug?" I found a thread via google where they are discussing Geddes and that was mentioned. Thanks.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

The waveguide is a type of horn speaker, geddes has the patent on the foam to make the constant directivity (CD). As far as the explination of the wide sweet spot. In a typical system your speakers are a little toed in so when you sit in the middle (the sweet spot) the speakers combine to make a sound stage hopefully between the speakers. Now if you move to the left in the sweet spot the left speaker is stronger in signal output than the right speaker thus collapsing the sound stage. Same thing if you move to the right. The reason it works like this is because the speaker outputs a fairly wide pattern of sound. In the Geddes CD speaker the pattern is narrower and when the left speaker is aimed to your right and the left speaker aimed to your right the sound patterns cross in front of you but the soundstage is still firmly planted between the speakers (I had to hear that one to believe it). Now when you move to the left in the sweet spot you are directly in line with the right speaker and the left speaker signal sound weaker because it is now aimed even more to your right but the soundstage is still in the middle of the speakers. You really do have to hear this to believe it. Like I said these are the best speakers that I have ever heard in a home system, but I am sure they are not for everyone. The speakers with the subs work as a SYSTEM, the Abbeys only play down to 50 hZ then the subs from 50hZ down. Some people do not like using or have room for subwoofers. I have built all three of the subs I use on the 2 channel side of my system right now with the help of the great people on this site. I have an 18" sealed Maelsrtom X, a 15" sealed Dayton, and a 12" ported Peerless. I am currently building 2 15" sontube subs for the H/T side of the system, you can check out the pics as I build them on the ported build section of this site under DIY Subs. (man that was a long post)


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

That 5th and 6th line should read left speaker aimed to your right and right speaker aimed to your left


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> The waveguide is a type of horn speaker, geddes has the patent on the foam to make the constant directivity (CD). As far as the explination of the wide sweet spot. In a typical system your speakers are a little toed in so when you sit in the middle (the sweet spot) the speakers combine to make a sound stage hopefully between the speakers. Now if you move to the left in the sweet spot the left speaker is stronger in signal output than the right speaker thus collapsing the sound stage. Same thing if you move to the right. The reason it works like this is because the speaker outputs a fairly wide pattern of sound. In the Geddes CD speaker the pattern is narrower and when the left speaker is aimed to your right and the left speaker aimed to your right the sound patterns cross in front of you but the soundstage is still firmly planted between the speakers (I had to hear that one to believe it). Now when you move to the left in the sweet spot you are directly in line with the right speaker and the left speaker signal sound weaker because it is now aimed even more to your right but the soundstage is still in the middle of the speakers. You really do have to hear this to believe it. Like I said these are the best speakers that I have ever heard in a home system, but I am sure they are not for everyone. The speakers with the subs work as a SYSTEM, the Abbeys only play down to 50 hZ then the subs from 50hZ down. Some people do not like using or have room for subwoofers. I have built all three of the subs I use on the 2 channel side of my system right now with the help of the great people on this site. I have an 18" sealed Maelsrtom X, a 15" sealed Dayton, and a 12" ported Peerless. I am currently building 2 15" sontube subs for the H/T side of the system, you can check out the pics as I build them on the ported build section of this site under DIY Subs. (man that was a long post)



Ok dwr, I absolutely understand what you are saying. Now I have 2 questions = how drastic is the aiming of the speakers? I am trying to get a visual. Secondly, how does he recommend positioning the subs and are they connected to each other? thanks. this is very interesting info. :T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

The aiming of the speakers in my room as most "normal" sized rooms mine is 14' wide by 32' long the speakers will be at 45 degrees (as opposed to facing straight out) about 42" out from the wall and 36" from the side wall. As for the subs his philosophy is at least one sub that goes down to 20Hz usually placed in a corner another sub that fires upward at a height of about 1/3 the height of the room and another usually behind the listening spot but the locations are room dependent as you need to take measurements with both the mains and the subs with a program such as REW. The random positioning is part of the whole system. And the subs work independently I use behringer EP 4000 amps to power mine and a behringer DCX 2496 for crossover/management of the subs.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Ok, so you have an amp that powers your subs. Please forgive my ignorance here as this is all new to me but are they connected via rca plugs or some other way? I have 3 subs i can use [all mirages] and I am trying to understand the best way to run them. Thank you for explaining all this.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

I am assuming that your subs are powered subs (they have internal amps) ? And what do you use for a pre/pro or AVR to get a signal to the subs now? And no need to apologize here, I love talkin about this stuff. The way I run mine is I take the signal from my 2ch preamp and send that to the DCX 2496 I set the frequency range I want the subs to get 20Hz-70Hz in my case from there the signal goes to the EP4000 amps and then via 1 12ga speaker wire to the sub. Let me know what you have for subs and a pre/pro or AVR.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I have a pioneer elite sc-25 a/v receiver, a proceed 3 channel amp, and an old adcom 5 channel amp. right now, I have my subs connected to the sc-25 via a y adaptor. Oh, yes my amps are powered. The newest one of the 3 is the mirage bps 400 while the other 2 are mirage subs which are always on I guess is the best way to say it. The bps 400 comes on when bass is needed and they are set according to the auto calibration of the sc-25.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yep OK so you are using the Pioneer as your processor, how many sub output jacks are on that unit? I assume 1 because you say you are using the Y cable.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yep OK so you are using the Pioneer as your processor, how many sub output jacks are on that unit? I assume 1 because you say you are using the Y cable.



Yes, only one.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

OK 2 ways to go about using 3 subs first the lowest cost way, get another Y connector and add that to the one you have on there now to make 3 output signals and connect to each sub via rca. Second the more expensive way get a behringer DCX 2496 and feed the one sub signal from the Pioneer to the 2496, set it up in the mono mode and you can run up to 6 subs from there. The 2496 has 6 outputs on it and when you set it up in mono it sends the input signal from your Pioneer to all six outputs. You can then set the frequency range you want each sub to play at independently. The thing with the behringer is the inputs and outputs are XLR connections so you will need some way to go from rca on the pioneer to xlr in and xlr out to rca in on the subs. I use rca/xlr adapters. And I know you are going to ask the price on the behringer and I was looking it up but you replied too fast. I'll look now.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

The 2496 is $300 at zZounds.com


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> OK 2 ways to go about using 3 subs first the lowest cost way, get another Y connector and add that to the one you have on there now to make 3 output signals and connect to each sub via rca. Second the more expensive way get a behringer DCX 2496 and feed the one sub signal from the Pioneer to the 2496, set it up in the mono mode and you can run up to 6 subs from there. The 2496 has 6 outputs on it and when you set it up in mono it sends the input signal from your Pioneer to all six outputs. You can then set the frequency range you want each sub to play at independently. The thing with the behringer is the inputs and outputs are XLR connections so you will need some way to go from rca on the pioneer to xlr in and xlr out to rca in on the subs. I use rca/xlr adapters. And I know you are going to ask the price on the behringer and I was looking it up but you replied too fast. I'll look now.



LOL! I already looked it up while you were typing this. I have another Y cable here so I'll hook em up like that till I get the 2496. The problem I am having with the older sub that is always on is it rumbles like mad and I have no way to turn it down. The other one is fine but of course it only comes on when needed. I thought about connecting the older sub to the 400 and see if I could use the volume to control both but isn't the sc-25 still running both?


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr, will this work?

http://www.sweetwater.com/c861--Unbalanced_Cables__RCA_to_XLR


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yes it is, you may have a problem with that sub. And I understand the always on thing too. The two subs I use right now for H/T are powered subs one a Velodyne and the other an inexpensive Yamaha and the Yamaha is always on. But your sub should not "rumble" all the time. Try the sub that is always on by itself to see if it rumbles all the time when just it is hooked up to the pioneer, if so there is a problem with the sub.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yep those cables will work just fine


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Ok. I will give that a try and see what happens. You have been so helpful dwr. B/w you and JJ, I'll be set once I decide on speakers.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Hey I never did ask, what is your budget for speakers??


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Well, it'll probably end up being in the 5k neighborhood give or take. You know how that is. lol


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yeah I know exactly how that goes, Ok I'll give you some suggestions tomorrow after I look around at whats out there in that price range.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow dwr....thanks! I honestly have no idea and was planning to do as jj suggested in listening to a bunch of different ones. The aerial 10t's I had I got because I happened to be at the store when they were being demo'ed for somebody else. I about melted into the floor. I was done as they say here in the south. Lol Ended up with the whole bit, surrounds and all. I still have the surrounds. Great speakers. I was interested in focals because that is what I have in my car although I know car audio is different.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Are you looking for brand new speakers or would you consider going the used route also?


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I would definitely consider used. I have kept an eye on audiogon but there are so many there I know nothing about. I guess I'm very open at this point is the best thing to say.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

How far are you from Manasas VA, there is a pair of focal 1037BE for sale that is a GREAT bargain on audiogon right now also if you should try and listen to Dali Helikon speakers they are great and in your price range used. I'll do some more looking around tomorrow I'm staying in anyways going to be in the 90s here. Going to crash out after the race ends in a few.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

We are watching the race too! Lol! Big wreck. I am probably 5 hours or so from Manasas. I'll check the site out now.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

OK I made you a list of speakers to try and audition used and new. Bear in mind that this are just my suggestions some others may have other very valid choices and speaker performance is a very subjective thing. These are speakers that I would audition and I have auditioned many of these. Speaking of speakers I am WAY geeked here.....my speakers will be ready for pickup Wednesday morning. Let me ask you this also, what do you listen for when you audition speakers, anything in particular??? I will explain when I get your answer. OK here is my list.

New Used
Martin Logan Prodigy B&W
B&W 803....804 Talon
Tyler Acoustics Joseph Audio 
Focal Canton Reference
Revel Salk Audio
Geddes Revel
Tanoy

Hopefully others will add to this list.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

That didn't go well lets try again.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

New
B&W
Talon
Joseph Audio
Canton Reference
Salk Audio
Revel
Tanoy
Geddes

Used
Martin Logan Prodigy
B&W 803....804
Tyler Acoustics
Focal
Revel


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Thank you MUCH for that list dwr!! It gives me a good start. When I audition speakers, I want to hear them in 2 channel, basic stereo mode, for music as well as 5.1 if possible. I also want to hear them in a h/t setup because that replicates the way I will be using them. I listen for resonance, clear and crisp vocals with no distortion, and detail. I do not do boomy [if that is even a word] stuff. I guess the best way to explain it is that I want everything to mesh. Although I don't listen to classical music much, I like to use it for auditioning. One of my favorite discs to use is the Fairfield Four = ***** spiritual songs done without instruments mainly. It is excellent for vocals. I also like to check volume levels. I don't want speakers that are going to exhaust me to listen to. I hope this helps in some way.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yes the reason I ask is that what I listen for in an audition is, I want nothing to jump out at me. I have made the mistake in the past of having something really impress me right away like the voices jump out at you and you say wow the voices sound great (Martin Logans hit me like that) so I bought a pair and I could never get the bass to integrate with these and ended up selling them. That is just an example of what I am talking about not a slam on ML. So now what I look for when I audition in a speaker is for nothing to jump out at me and grab my attention. The Geddes speakers are the only ones that have done this for me, followed closely by Focal.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Which focals have you had and how are they with bass? Now when you say Geddes, is there a category or anything he makes?


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

I have never owned any Focals but at the local audio show here I listened to the Focal 1027 BE speakers powered by a digital amp and they sounded fabulous. Here is a link to see some of the rooms at that show. The Salks are on there also and the Dalis I believe.http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/events.pl?&&RoomList&&&&&&&AKF10


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Those dali's look sick dwr! Lawd! I'm going to see if I can find some to hear. Wow


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yeah and they sound as good as they look.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I forgot to tell you that my sub is messed up. It rattles like mad and the volume control on the pioneer does not effect it. It doesn't go down or up; it just stays really loud. So, the bps 400 is it for now but adding subs is the easy part.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yep I kinda figured that sub was cooked. And when you look for speakers try and figure out what you are looking for frequency response wise. I DO NOT care what anybody tells you, you WILL NOT find a pair of "full range" speakers that go down anywhere near 20Hz in your price range. If you are good with using subwoofers like it sounds, look for speakers with a flat response down to 40-60Hz,then use your subs to take care of the 60-20Hz range. Even inexpensive subs like the 2 I use for the H/T side of my system only go down to 26 and 28 Hz. For music listening if you get down to 30Hz or so that should be fine. For H/t you really want to get down to at least 20Hz.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yep I kinda figured that sub was cooked. And when you look for speakers try and figure out what you are looking for frequency response wise. I DO NOT care what anybody tells you, you WILL NOT find a pair of "full range" speakers that go down anywhere near 20Hz in your price range. If you are good with using subwoofers like it sounds, look for speakers with a flat response down to 40-60Hz,then use your subs to take care of the 60-20Hz range. Even inexpensive subs like the 2 I use for the H/T side of my system only go down to 26 and 28 Hz. For music listening if you get down to 30Hz or so that should be fine. For H/t you really want to get down to at least 20Hz.




When I listened to a pair of paradigm speakers last week they shut the sub off. they sounded to "tinny" or hollow in my opinion. I do not know which paradigm they were but I did not like them like that.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

No I understand completely, You should be able to listen to your speakers without a sub or subs and say yeah those sound real good, then you turn the sub or subs on and you say yep that completes the picture. The speakers alone should not sound tinny or excessively bright. What kind of audio shops do you have within say a 100 miles of you that you can listen to speakers at.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I actually have found 3 that are within 2 hours. There are 2 in Raleigh and 1 in Wilmington. Some of the brands they carry are Focal, B&W, Krell, Paradigm, and Thiel. Here are a couple of their sites:

http://www.audiovisionsofwilmington.com/

http://www.avxnc.com/

There is one other in Raleigh but I do not see a website address. I found them because they carry Focal. 

***I put on the movie Alice in Wonderland about 10 mins ago. I now have my amps plugged directly into the wall not in the same socket. Everything else is plugged into a power wedge including of course my sc-25. I have the power wedge plugged into a wall socket which is under a different breaker. As I was typing my response above, the pioneer shut down like before and then powered on again. What could it be? I am going to call an electrician. If I turn the volume up at all, say lower than 15, it goes off.

Ok, I forgot to add that the pioneer is also plugged into the power wedge. I wonder if I should plug that into the wall??


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

You can try plugging it into the wall, but I don't think that will change things. Are you using the pioneer as basically a preamp? Feeding the signal from the preamp out to the inputs on your amps, and then your speakers hooked up from your amps to the speakers?


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

That is correct dwr. I did find last night, in the manual, that if it shuts down during loud scenes to shut off the safety feature. I worked on that for 2 hours and never figured out how to do that.


Dwr, I figured out how to bring up the safety settings. The receiver has to be off which is unusual to me. Anyway, there are 3 settings for it and I followed what the manual suggests. We'll see how it goes tonight when I watch a movie.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That is an excellent list of Speakers which DWR supplied.
My Brother owns Focal 1037 BE's and they are truly excellent.
I have also been quite pleased with the Martin Logan's that I have used.

With Speakers, it really comes down to which you enjoy the most that also fit into your budget.
Cheers,
JJ


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yeah JJ I sat and listened to the Focal 1027BEs powered by a Cambridge Class D amp and I could have sat at this show and listened to that set up for hours. Which is unusual as show set ups and rooms are usually far from optimal. The link to that system is on pg 7 of this thread.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Right JJ. I actually have a dealer about an hour up the road that sells Dali's and one down the road from him that sells Focals. You guys have good advice concerning buying used. I think that may be the way I go and they will already be broken in. I just gotta get an electrician over here. Something keeps throwing my switch in the main fuse box and I lose everything. When it happens, the sc-25 goes into safety mode, shuts down and powers back up. One thing about it though, I have pretty much read the entire manual. Lol


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yes you need to get an electrician to take a look at that electrical problem. As for going with used speakers, the best part of that as I see it is if you get the speakers and after a period of time they don't meet your expectations in YOUR room you should be able to sell them for pretty much what you paid for them.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I agree totally dwr. I can't wait to hear the dali's. I'll probably go check them out next week. Have you heard either center channel for the dali's or focals?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The importance of a steady Power Supply cannot be understated. This is why many no holds barred HT's have a Dedicated Circuit going to the HT. And moreover, use Copper and not Aluminum Wiring in this Circuit.

Having an Electrician come over and assess the general condition of the AC in the House is a really good idea.
When unable to provide a steady 120 Hz or for super powerful Amplifiers or Subwoofers 240 Hz, you really are not getting all that your equipment can provide.

In truth, most do not have Amplifiers or Subwoofers with built Amplifiers that really can strain the AC in ones Home. However, there are some that do own Components that are that powerful. Amplifiers like Robin's Proceed and other Amplifiers can test the available Power in the House. My Aragon 8008bb and Parasound HCA-3500/2205AT put a great deal of strain on my Home's Power as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

As for the center channel speakers, no I have not heard either companies centers. As for the power aspect, you are so right JJ. I use a Rotel 1075, a Jolida JD-1000A, and 2 EP4000 amps with the 3rd EP4000 to arrive Wednesday. I use 2 circuits to power my system.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The importance of a steady Power Supply cannot be understated. This is why many no holds barred HT's have a Dedicated Circuit going to the HT. And moreover, use Copper and not Aluminum Wiring in this Circuit.
> 
> Having an Electrician come over and assess the general condition of the AC in the House is a really good idea.
> ...



Do you have a dedicated circuit for yours jj? I am calling him in the morning and I think that is what I would like to have done. I am keeping it on low volume now and my sub is nearly off.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Hey z06 when you talk to the electrician let me know how much they are charging for adding a dedicated circuit if you can.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Will do dwr. I'll post as soon as I talk to him although he may have to come and assess everything first. 


Robin


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I do not have a Dedicated Circuit. I did have an Electrician come out and check the Power. When I build a House, I will definitely do so.

I moved to Sarasota to go to Acupuncture School. Since I was in Sarasota, I decided to live close to the Beach and Rented a House on Siesta Key. Considering to turgid Real Estate Market in SW Florida, I am glad I did not purchase a Home when moving here as I had planned.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Smart move JJ. My brother is a mortgage broker and he could have made more collecting unemployment than he has made this year. It has been just awful and, frankly, with all the regulations he now has to deal with, I don't see him staying in it. As for acupuncture, my husband is a family doc of hawaiian chinese descent so you 2 would hit it off. Funny story = I blew out the tendon in my right arm lifting weights and breathing was pain personified. After doing everything I could think of, I went to see an orthopedic surgeon. He came into the room, asked me what was going on, took my arm and turned it slightly one way then the other, looked at me and said, "You need tommy john surgery." i laughed in his face. Unfortunately, we are a small town and don't have alot of choices so we elected to give prolotherapy a try. We did 6 treatments and I have not looked back. I will confess that those shots hurt like mad though but they worked. I was an athlete growing up and have so many injuries that have caught up with me at 45. I always tried to play through everything and I am paying for it. I'll pass on surgery if at all possible. Tommy John surgery with no x-rays or anything. Crazy


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Hey JJ my wife and I will be down in Bradenton Beach 1st week in May next year, I'm going to look you up when we are there and see if I can get a listen to that Logan system.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
DWR, you are going to be right in my neck of the woods. Bradenton is about 20 Minutes from Sarasota and we share the same Airport. I would be glad to have you over.
Cheers,
JJ


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

z06gal said:


> Will do dwr. I'll post as soon as I talk to him although he may have to come and assess everything first.
> 
> 
> Robin


I imagine he'll take a look before quoting, as an install can vary considerably in labor.

Unless you've got a tricky install, it shouldn't be too bad: I put my own in because I installed my tv on the wall and the equipment in a closet with no outlet and I bought a circuit breaker, 12G wire, outlets, and old work boxes for maybe $50 parts. I had a tricky install, but a fairly straightforward job should take him an hour or so. Since I have so many amps I put a couple of them on another circuit, just in case.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I know i'm glad my electrician is a family member.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

That must be nice: I probably shouldn't do 1/4 of the stuff I do, but I end up reading stuff til I'm half mad, then diy. So far I've run those ac outlets, wired the house for internet, 5.1 surround, projector, tv, numerous low level/speaker outputs between rooms and to the garage. I just try to make all my diy 'improvements' either reversible or desirable to the next owner, while meeting code requirements.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

ironglen said:


> That must be nice: I probably shouldn't do 1/4 of the stuff I do, but I end up reading stuff til I'm half mad, then diy. So far I've run those ac outlets, wired the house for internet, 5.1 surround, projector, tv, numerous low level/speaker outputs between rooms and to the garage. I just try to make all my diy 'improvements' either reversible or desirable to the next owner, while meeting code requirements.


Yeah, guess i should have mentiond,that family member is me :R. I also try to do things so that the next family in our house will have options when they move in, instead of being like i was the whole time i was asking myself why did they do this this way.:huh:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I think that is great Iron that you at least have confidence to try. Electricians here are so hard to get because the better ones are busy with new homes although the real estate market is terrible here now. I am lucky that I know one from the gym. He also does all the electrical work at the office. I'm looking forward to talking to him tomorrow. Lol


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

lol Didn't know that Bambino. 

My dad built the house we lived in and he'd only built a shed before that. He was an electrician/telephone linesman, yet he was read and was meticulous, so I guess he inspired me to do all I can myself. What I'm finding as I get older is that I tend to do a better job than when I pay others, so I read, buy the tools, and do it myself, although it takes a lot of my time. I get tired of reworking everything that was paid to be done before me. , I gotta call the hvac guy tomorrow to fix the ducting they jacked up when they installed it a few weeks ago :rolleyesno: Seems I gotta watch every move anyone makes: I found a 3/8" socket wrench on my engine last year, and my wife took her car to the dealership and it came home with two loose wheels that were ready to fall off. Really. One was missing two nuts in four miles. Seemed the tech only started the threads and never tightened them. Good thing I'm handy and don't shy from physical labor :sweat:


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

When you do find a good contractor/technician, I think you've gotta treat them right. If I have to call someone, they are usually doing hard work, using expensive tools, or have expertise that I simply won't ever have. I usually offer soda's, snacks, whatever. Of course, they are usually prepared, and decline anyways. , I try to be nice to anyone helping me out. When I had a couple guys come over to help hang my tv, all of maybe 15 minutes, I offered to have them over for a bbq as I really appreciated their effort. The only thing I could have done alone was smash a new tv!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

ironglen said:


> lol Didn't know that Bambino.
> 
> My dad built the house we lived in and he'd only built a shed before that. He was an electrician/telephone linesman, yet he was read and was meticulous, so I guess he inspired me to do all I can myself. What I'm finding as I get older is that I tend to do a better job than when I pay others, so I read, buy the tools, and do it myself, although it takes a lot of my time. I get tired of reworking everything that was paid to be done before me. , I gotta call the hvac guy tomorrow to fix the ducting they jacked up when they installed it a few weeks ago :rolleyesno: Seems I gotta watch every move anyone makes: I found a 3/8" socket wrench on my engine last year, and my wife took her car to the dealership and it came home with two loose wheels that were ready to fall off. Really. One was missing two nuts in four miles. Seemed the tech only started the threads and never tightened them. Good thing I'm handy and don't shy from physical labor :sweat:


Nothing wrong with being meticulous and wanting things done right. I think every project i have either hired out or that my single mother has had done i've been right there making sure things are done to specs (or at least mine) my mother calls me Mr. P. I remember years back when she hired what turned out to be a shady carpenter to redo her front porch he actually packed up and left the job because i was questioning him on how he was doing things and telling him how they need to be,another guy and i ended up finishing the job.

Another thing too is when you learn to do the job yourself and buy the tools to do it, it ends up being cheaper then hiring someone else and the tools pay for them selves plus you get to keep them and the job turns out the way you want it:T. Oh and not to mention self accomplishment.:sn:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

ironglen said:


> When you do find a good contractor/technician, I think you've gotta treat them right. If I have to call someone, they are usually doing hard work, using expensive tools, or have expertise that I simply won't ever have. I usually offer soda's, snacks, whatever. Of course, they are usually prepared, and decline anyways. , I try to be nice to anyone helping me out. When I had a couple guys come over to help hang my tv, all of maybe 15 minutes, I offered to have them over for a bbq as I really appreciated their effort. The only thing I could have done alone was smash a new tv!


Good to have friends, and gotta keep them happy, a pat on the back goes along way and so does a soda and a BBQ.:T


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Ok, last post on this 'emotiva' thread.

Bambino, you crack me up! I'm the same way, but I try to be tactful, by asking in a curious fashion when in fact I'm checking their response for the correct answer I'm looking for, hehehe

I've collected some tools in the last five years since I gained my wife's homeownership- like a kid with a sweet tooth :dumbcrazy:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

ironglen said:


> Ok, last post on this 'emotiva' thread.
> 
> Bambino, you crack me up! I'm the same way, but I try to be tactful, by asking in a curious fashion when in fact I'm checking their response for the correct answer I'm looking for, hehehe
> 
> I've collected some tools in the last five years since I gained my wife's homeownership- like a kid with a sweet tooth :dumbcrazy:


OK, this is it. I was kinda thinkin i hijacked my own thread by going off topic:whistling:. All good ways of going about things and nice chatting too.:T


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

dwr said:


> JJ gives good advice with that amp you have many options for speakers. The amp is a great value it has 200wpc and that is with all channels driven, most of your AVRs show specs like the Onkyo NR8007 135wpc but thats with only 2 channels driven, it will get nowhere near 135wpc with ALL channels driven. So be patient and try and get a listen to some different speakers powered by YOUR amp even if you have to take it with you to audition them.


If Jungle Jack takes a look at this post, I hope he can shed some insight on what I am about to point out...

Jack, you see the above statement by dwr? Specifically, regarding the 8007 getting "nowhere near" 135 wpc with all channels driven? This is what concerns me because in all my previous threads, I've been getting advice leading me to believe any of these 1007/807 models will be plenty powerful for my RTi12 mains -- but is this so? I keep hearing about the ridiculous current the 807 or 1007 can produce, but now a statement from dwr has me very concerned -- how can he say this AVR won't put out anywhere near those specs, but a lower-tiered Onk is being recommended for being able to give me gobs of current for my system?

Can someone explain that? :huh:


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yes guys finding a good contractor is essential, the husband of one of the ladies my wife works with is an electrical contractor so I am going to get in touch with him for an estimate on adding 2 circuits. And Bambino are you excited yet about getting that amp tomorrow, I pick up my speakers tomorrow at 9 am, CAN'T WAIT!


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Osage it is a well excepted fact in the audio power ratings world you rarely get the advertised numbers on a piece of equipment I am going to go back and find a link for you showing how one gentleman tested numerous amps and posted his results for power output. And I am not aware of any amps or receivers that when they show specs with only 2 channels driven that will meet those numbers with ALL channels driven. To give you an example of advertised power rating vs real world numbers, I use 2 soon to be 3 Behringer EP 4000 amps to power my subwoofers, they are supposed to put out 2400 watts bridged into 4 ohms, real world they put out 2000 watts. They are supposed to put out 950 watts per channel in stereo at 4 ohms, they really put out 650 watts per channel. And the AVR you are looking at may very well have plenty of power for your speakers I never implied that it did not. I just wish all the manufacturers would put out power rating numbers the same way (ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN0 because lets face it that is how most of us use the equipment


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Here you go Osage you should find this interesting readinghttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10755565#post10755565


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

sorry try this


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

OK I cant get the link to post right. Manually type it in, it si interesting


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

this link will take you to the master list of amps he tested. They are all pro audio amps that people use to power their subs.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=855865


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Dwr is correct about power, yet surround typically require much less while the front three needs gobs to handle transients. Some just supplement the front three (or two) with an external amp and let the avr do the rest: I'll venture that even budget avr's would be exceptional with that setup. Listen to a movie and you get comparatively next to nothing out of the surrounds, compared to the front three.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Osage_Winter said:


> If Jungle Jack takes a look at this post, I hope he can shed some insight on what I am about to point out...
> 
> Jack, you see the above statement by dwr? Specifically, regarding the 8007 getting "nowhere near" 135 wpc with all channels driven? This is what concerns me because in all my previous threads, I've been getting advice leading me to believe any of these 1007/807 models will be plenty powerful for my RTi12 mains -- but is this so? I keep hearing about the ridiculous current the 807 or 1007 can produce, but now a statement from dwr has me very concerned -- how can he say this AVR won't put out anywhere near those specs, but a lower-tiered Onk is being recommended for being able to give me gobs of current for my system?
> 
> Can someone explain that? :huh:


Osage,
The 1007 is powerful enough to drive your Polk's and a great deal more powerful than your TX-SR605.
I am not sure if you remember, but my original recommendation was for the TX-SR876. Unlike almost all other AVR's on the Market, it does output over 100 Watts into 7 Channels: "The two things that stand out for me are:875 wattage at 7 channels:Output at clipping (1 kHz into 8/4 ohms)
1 channel driven: 201/322 watts (23/25.1 dBW)
5 channels driven (8 ohms): 141 watts (21.5 dBW)
7 channels driven (8 ohms): 128 watts (21.1 dBW). That quote is from another Forum as the Link to the Bench Test is down. 

Due to your not wanting anything to do with a B-Stock, the TX-NR1007 became the best choice of anything out there for under a grand. And I would like to hear one post where anyone said there was "ridiculous current" on the Onkyo Models. Rather, it was the best choice and had the most powerful Amplifier Section of the AVR's you can find in the price range. 

Moreover, Polk's are not as difficult to drive as some of the Speakers which Robin is looking at. Almost every Polk was Designed with AVR's in mind.
The same cannot be said for the Aerial Speakers she owns and some of the Speakers she is looking at. Moreover, Robin already owns a 4000 Dollar plus Amplifier. And another 5 Channel Amplifier. It truly is a different situation.
JJ


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

JJ great recommendation on that 875, there are some of the AVRs out there that are measured with all channels driven. Robins' Pioneer Elite SC-25 being one of them it's advertised numbers are 140 watts per channel with all 7 channels driven. The thing is you aren't going to get that kind of AVR under $1000 correct again JJ.
And Ironglen is absolutely correct also about the surround channels not requiring a whole lot of power in movie soundtracks, that is why I said the unit you are looking at Osrage, may have plenty of power for your needs.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I am not sure why Osage interjected his search for an AVR into this discussion, but they really are different scenarios. The only reason I bring this up is he has started multiple Threads about looking for a new AVR.

The 805 and 875/876 really were special AVR's. The 007 Series are excellent as well, but are not quite as powerful per channel. I am guessing this is due to them being 9 Channel AVR's.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yes guys finding a good contractor is essential, the husband of one of the ladies my wife works with is an electrical contractor so I am going to get in touch with him for an estimate on adding 2 circuits. And Bambino are you excited yet about getting that amp tomorrow, I pick up my speakers tomorrow at 9 am, CAN'T WAIT!


Man am i ever excited, you are lucky you have a set time to get your speakers, my set time is somewhere between 9 to 5, when fedex drops off the amp glad i don't go back to work till thursday as i will be the only one home to sign for it i just hope i don't miss him:sad:.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

I think you better spend the day on the front porch tomorrow.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

dwr said:


> I think you better spend the day on the front porch tomorrow.


Thats good!:rofl:. Just lost my excitment though as i just found out my order for my interconnects just shipped today and is being delivered by the post office:foottap:. I guess patience is the key. This will be a test to see if i can wait or if i run out to my audio dealer and by the ones he has instock which all together will cost as much as the amp:dontknow:. I think i can wait:innocent:.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yep it's all about the waiting. My speakers were supposed to be ready about 2 months after the order date, that was basically a month ago. So you just have to have patients. Have you got interconnects you can use in the mean time or no? And what did you order?


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Not enough interconnects to get the job done but i probly have enough bundeld away somwhere that i can at least get it fired up. 

In my first post on this thread i was talking about how i just orderd the Emotiva XPA5 :dumbcrazy:.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

dwr said:


> Osage it is a well excepted fact in the audio power ratings world you rarely get the advertised numbers on a piece of equipment I am going to go back and find a link for you showing how one gentleman tested numerous amps and posted his results for power output. And I am not aware of any amps or receivers that when they show specs with only 2 channels driven that will meet those numbers with ALL channels driven. To give you an example of advertised power rating vs real world numbers, I use 2 soon to be 3 Behringer EP 4000 amps to power my subwoofers, they are supposed to put out 2400 watts bridged into 4 ohms, real world they put out 2000 watts. They are supposed to put out 950 watts per channel in stereo at 4 ohms, they really put out 650 watts per channel. And the AVR you are looking at may very well have plenty of power for your speakers I never implied that it did not. I just wish all the manufacturers would put out power rating numbers the same way (ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN0 because lets face it that is how most of us use the equipment


The real world situation is that the Behringer EP4000 can produce both 2000 *AND* 2400 watts into 4 Ohms in bridged mode. The two values are only a discrepancy of what level of distortion accompanies the given power output.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

That's gonna be SWEET! I picked up an old outlaw amp last year and really like it: and it's just 100wx7 at 8ohms. I swapped out components, and my wife asked what I did as it sounded more vibrant (I think is what she said). I tend to have the volume -10 to -15 watching movies.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I was real close to getting 5 Outlaw monoblocks but then i saw the deal at Emotiva and couldn't pass on it, we''ll see what it does. I'm sure it will be a huge improvement over the Denon.:T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yes guys finding a good contractor is essential, the husband of one of the ladies my wife works with is an electrical contractor so I am going to get in touch with him for an estimate on adding 2 circuits. And Bambino are you excited yet about getting that amp tomorrow, I pick up my speakers tomorrow at 9 am, CAN'T WAIT!



DWR!! Please post tomorrow as I will be anxiously waiting to hear what you think. Lol....Christmas in July


Robin


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yes I will, and on the speaker front The Absolute Sound magazine is going to have a review on The Dali Helicon II speakers next issue.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

dwr said:


> Osage it is a well excepted fact in the audio power ratings world you rarely get the advertised numbers on a piece of equipment I am going to go back and find a link for you showing how one gentleman tested numerous amps and posted his results for power output. And I am not aware of any amps or receivers that when they show specs with only 2 channels driven that will meet those numbers with ALL channels driven. To give you an example of advertised power rating vs real world numbers, I use 2 soon to be 3 Behringer EP 4000 amps to power my subwoofers, they are supposed to put out 2400 watts bridged into 4 ohms, real world they put out 2000 watts. They are supposed to put out 950 watts per channel in stereo at 4 ohms, they really put out 650 watts per channel. And the AVR you are looking at may very well have plenty of power for your speakers I never implied that it did not. I just wish all the manufacturers would put out power rating numbers the same way (ALL CHANNELS DRIVEN0 because lets face it that is how most of us use the equipment


I see what you're saying here, but it was suggested that the AVR I was being guided towards would offer gobs of true current, and it seemed what you were suggesting about the Onkyo going nowhere near rated specs concerned me.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> Man am i ever excited, you are lucky you have a set time to get your speakers, my set time is somewhere between 9 to 5, when fedex drops off the amp glad i don't go back to work till thursday as i will be the only one home to sign for it i just hope i don't miss him:sad:.



Bambino, I don't know how it works there but my fedex deliverer, 90% of the time, is someone I have known for years. He told me that if I was expecting something that required a signature and I had to leave, just leave a note stating "Fedex, please leave the package [wherever you want it left]" So, I have done that and they have left it every time whoever the driver is. I always include the tracking number on the note then sign my name. If you have to leave, give it a shot. 


Also, dwr, I called the electrician today and they are going to come and see what I need. He told me that he had done a number of h/t dedicated circuits. I am grateful to JJ for advising that because I would not have thought of that. i will let you know what they end up doing. :sn:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yes I will, and on the speaker front The Absolute Sound magazine is going to have a review on The Dali Helicon II speakers next issue.



Outstanding!! I will definitely check that out. :T:T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Guys, I need your input on something if you don't mind. The sc-25 manual says that if the unit shuts down during loud scenes to go into the mcacc and manually turn down the 63hz and 125hz. Now that is all it says my questions are [1] is that for all speakers and [2] turn them down to what?? I checked out all the settings that were provided after the auto calibration and see how to do it but I am not given any more specifics. Why those 2? The safety feature simply turns them off altogether. Thanks. 


Robin


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> Bambino, I don't know how it works there but my fedex deliverer, 90% of the time, is someone I have known for years. He told me that if I was expecting something that required a signature and I had to leave, just leave a note stating "Fedex, please leave the package [wherever you want it left]" So, I have done that and they have left it every time whoever the driver is. I always include the tracking number on the note then sign my name. If you have to leave, give it a shot.
> 
> 
> Also, dwr, I called the electrician today and they are going to come and see what I need. He told me that he had done a number of h/t dedicated circuits. I am grateful to JJ for advising that because I would not have thought of that. i will let you know what they end up doing. :sn:


Thanks z06gal, I will try that if i have to run out for somthing, you never know what can pop up haveing two 13 month olds running around.:T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> Thanks z06gal, I will try that if i have to run out for somthing, you never know what can pop up haveing two 13 month olds running around.:T



Twins? Wow, how much idle time you have? lol


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

OK z06, look on pg 115 in your owners manual you will see a picture of the mcacc (equalizer) frequency settings the 63 and 125 settings are the lowest frequencies. My guess is that when you ran the auto mcacc it measured your room and cranked up the eq on the 2 lowest frequencies which will draw a lot of the power out of your units amps and more that likely clip the signal. What were those two frequencies set at after running the auto mcacc. And you will more than likely have to turn those levels down on all the channels.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> OK z06, look on pg 115 in your owners manual you will see a picture of the mcacc (equalizer) frequency settings the 63 and 125 settings are the lowest frequencies. My guess is that when you ran the auto mcacc it measured your room and cranked up the eq on the 2 lowest frequencies which will draw a lot of the power out of your units amps and more that likely clip the signal. What were those two frequencies set at after running the auto mcacc. And you will more than likely have to turn those levels down on all the channels.



Ok dwr, got it. I guess I'll just have to play around with the settings and see what happens. I haven't made any changes since doing the auto calibration so I'll make small changes. I can't recall the numbers but I will check it shortly.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

you can also try shutting off the eq to see if that is the problem directions for that are on pg 88


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> Twins? Wow, how much idle time you have? lol


Not much but they are worth it, Lets just say my stereo gets more idle time then me. LOL

When they go to grandma & grandpas the house is :hsd:.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> you can also try shutting off the eq to see if that is the problem directions for that are on pg 88



Ok, when I make changes to the eq settings, do I need to then change the channel level settings as well?


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> Not much but they are worth it, Lets just say my stereo gets more idle time then me. LOL
> 
> When they go to grandma & grandpas the house is :hsd:.



lol! i can imagine. years ago i worked in a pediatric office answering the phone. we had a lady that had a 2 yr old and triplets who were babies at the time. she would call when she was getting ready to leave her house and we would meet her at the back door. i don't know how they did it but they did. lol


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> lol! i can imagine. years ago i worked in a pediatric office answering the phone. we had a lady that had a 2 yr old and triplets who were babies at the time. she would call when she was getting ready to leave her house and we would meet her at the back door. i don't know how they did it but they did. lol


Yeah, everybody asks how do you do it? but i guess once your there you figure it out pretty easy, my wife calls it multi tasking :sn: I call it no free time, but like i said it's worth it, now triplets plus another kid to go with them i'd be checking into the local mental health ward. LOL:rofl:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> Yeah, everybody asks how do you do it? but i guess once your there you figure it out pretty easy, my wife calls it multi tasking :sn: I call it no free time, but like i said it's worth it, now triplets plus another kid to go with them i'd be checking into the local mental health ward. LOL:rofl:



You would be Brad Pitt in 12 Monkeys. LOL!!!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Hehe!


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

OK Bambino....I have the speakers set up and playing, all I can say is that I am COMPLETELY satisfied!! I may just sit here for the next two days listening while these babies break in.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Rite on, looks like it was christmas for both of us this morning as i had a little knock knock at the door at 9am and low and behold it was fedex yeeha:bigsmile:. Just have a couple things to take care of this morning and i'll be up and running. Sure hope ienjoy this amp as much as you are your speakers. It's raining out and i can't think of a better thing to do then sit around and enjoy some music:sn:.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Sounds like a plan!!!


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr!! pics please! inquiring minds want to see. lol! I am glad they met your expectations and enjoy the out of them. I know I would. :T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

I'll put some pics up tomorrow. The speakers aren't much to look at, all black but I've been listening to 2 channel music for 7 hours and just switched over to the baseball game, so we will see how they sound on the H/T side. The music sounded absolutely beautiful, by far the best sounding speakers I have ever owned.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> I'll put some pics up tomorrow. The speakers aren't much to look at, all black but I've been listening to 2 channel music for 7 hours and just switched over to the baseball game, so we will see how they sound on the H/T side. The music sounded absolutely beautiful, by far the best sounding speakers I have ever owned.



Sounds good dwr. I am so excited for you. Did you get the center channel as well?? Oh, what is break in time on them?


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

lets try this pic light is lousy


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

And don't laugh at the yellow stands they are verry temporary, getting the heighth right before I build the final product.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

And no I did not get the center channel. As for the break in time, who know it varys speaker to speaker, but if they get better sounding than they are, thats all icing on the cake. These are extremely clear and have very high resolution but are not bright at all.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Lets try this one hopefully it si better. Ansel Adams I am not......obviously


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow dwr....I love the way they look. Now I want to hear them. Lol. Did you say it took you 2 months to get them? What is the speaker cabinet made of?


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

3 months to get them and Earl is now even further behind in orders. The enclosure is made of a polymer that looks just like MDF but is stiffer and a little lighter than mdf. I inquired about buying some when I was building my subs and the stuff is $300 for a 4' x 8' sheet. This material very well may catch on with other maufacturers soon. I got the gloss finish free of charge (normally a $400 option) because he wanted to try the gloss on the new enclosure material, and this is the first pair he has built with the new stuff. Earl is going to come over and take pics of the speakers for his website as he had to leave for China today as soon as I picked these up. The cabinets still have to be buffed out in a couple of weeks but the finish is great.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I just checked out his site and read a few reviews. I just may look into this. The cost is another big plus as well. I am curious about his subs too.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr, i meant to ask you what receiver you have?


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

I do not use a receiver I have a Rotel RSP 1068 preamp processor, with a Rotel RMB 1075 5 channel amp, with a Jolida JD-1000P tube power amp, and a Conrad Johnson 2 channel preamp with a real nice H/T bypass. So I can use the CJ and Jolida for 2 channel listening, and then the 1068 and 3 channels of the 1075 (surrounds and center) with the cj in H/T bypass and the Jolida for the front channels in H/T. For the last two days it has been so hot here I can't use the tube amp (its like a small furnace) so I have been using the 1075 for everything. The system is very flexible.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Very flexible it sounds like to me with that setup and is the best of both worlds which is the key. I meant to ask you what Earl uses or recommends for speaker cable? He seems like a simple fella...nothing grandiose, just logical from what I read on his site.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

he uses just plain 14 ga radio shack speaker wire and a pioneer AVR in his theater set up with his Summas. I wondered how the silver speaker cables I have were going to sound with these speakers and they sound great.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Wow, radio shack? That is shocking. I guess he figures if people fall in love with the sound with that, real speaker cables will knock your socks off.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

He is in the camp of all wire sounds the same. If you can't show him on paper the difference he won't believe there is any. Earl is a little different but a very nice and VERY educated man he knows his stuff. I am extremely lucky to live so close to him.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

So after 6 hours of cleaning water out of grandpas basement i finally hooked her up and i must say i don't think i need a sub anymore this XPA has changed the way everything sounds goodness what a differance.

I was only able to find enough interconnects for the fronts and center so i've been listening in pure direct without a sub, gosh i just can't get enough of how good it sounds. I might have to call in to work tomorrow as i'll be up all night rockin the house down, 5am comes early you know. :hsd::nono::bigsmile::T. 

Oh, dwr, Those speakers look good and from what you have said they sound even better


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

dwr said:


> He is in the camp of all wire sounds the same. If you can't show him on paper the difference he won't believe there is any. Earl is a little different but a very nice and VERY educated man he knows his stuff. I am extremely lucky to live so close to him.


I think it was in stereophile i read somthing about them comparing radioshack wire to some expensive stuff and little to no difference:huh:.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Hey Bambino, it's amazing how nice a GOOD amp sounds isn't it. I listened to 2 channel for 7 hours today....just about forgot to eat! Z06 if you want to read more of what Earl is all about go on this likn and also at the top of the page click on forums and go to speakers multi way and he has a couple of large threads there, some of it is real interesting reading.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yep I am just in the other camp from Earl on the wire thing......no biggie


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

dwr said:


> Hey Bambino, it's amazing how nice a GOOD amp sounds isn't it. I listened to 2 channel for 7 hours today....just about forgot to eat! Z06 if you want to read more of what Earl is all about go on this likn and also at the top of the page click on forums and go to speakers multi way and he has a couple of large threads there, some of it is real interesting reading.


Thats comedy you mention the not eating thing i've got supper burning on the stove as we speak, I can't pull myself away from this thing:R


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

here is that link z06.
www.diyaudio.com/forums/gedlee/


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Ok, time to shut'er down before johnny law shows up :foottap:. Just still amazed at the differance this thing has made, couldn't imagine what an amp costing 3 or 4 times the price of this would sound like:devil:.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Have a good night Bambino. And that more expensive amp would not make as much of a difference as you think. From the point you are at now you have to spend a lot of money to get small improvements, and most of us do not have that kind of money.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks man you too, I'm seriously concidering getting one more of these things as i'm just so impressed, all my Denon is now is a preamp, poor guy:crying:. Just can't decide on the 2 or the 3 channel version, Oh, and how to hide it from my wife:devil:.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

No worries, your Denon's back probably feels better for it. Glad you are fully satisfied with the Emotiva. The addiction runs deep, eh? :dumbcrazy:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> here is that link z06.
> www.diyaudio.com/forums/gedlee/



dwr, help me out with what he means by "bandpass" subs. there is a thread on that page about sub placement specifically using his subs which is very interesting. just when i thought this stuff couldn't get more addictive...lol


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Bandpass is the type of enclosure or the way the sub functions. You have different types of enclosures that function differently to achieve the same goal. Sealed and ported are the two main types of enclosures. The bandpass is a type of ported enclosure. I recommend you go on the diy subwoofer section of this site (it is excellent) you can get a lot of info from reading the posts there, and the people there like on the rest of this site are just great as far as helping out and answering questions. Earls subs do integrate very well with his speakers (imagine that) and at $500 thats a pretty fair price for a sub.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

As for the "addictive" part.........girl it is a life long addiction, but a good one I believe.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> As for the "addictive" part.........girl it is a life long addiction, but a good one I believe.



Let's hope it's a good one or I'll be starting a 12 step program here. Lol!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Good luck with the 12 step program z06 this is one tough addiction to overcome.:spend::spend::rofl:


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Hey Bambino.....you got it up and running? I've been lost in the vinyl for about 7 hours now!


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Ok I have a new dilemma. Lol....I use a oppo bdp 83 for watching movies and also listening to music. Well, 5.1 music sounds pretty good actually given the fact that I need better speakers but stereo is yuck. It sounds muffled or something. So, will a real cd player help or is it the speaker issue? It is not necessarily distortion but it just doesn't sound right. Yall know my equipment and with that in mind dwr, I noticed that emotiva as a preamp processor for under $400 I think. It hurt my feelings seeing that after having paid so much more for an a/v receiver. Live and learn as they say I guess. Thanks.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Oh man, i can't pull myself away from it. I don't have a record player... yet:bigsmile:. I've been poppin cd after cd in though and just amazing how different everything sounds. One strange thing though (i think) is my Denon still gets warm and i'm not using any of it's channels, only thing i can think of is the processing thats taking place inside of the AVR:scratch:. Oh and one of the indicator LED's on the Emotiva does not work, i've been on the phone with them allready and sounds like they will ship me out a new unit. Now thats service!

Still contemplating getting another XPA 5, 3 or 2, just not sure what route to take, if i go with 5 or 3 then i'll be with one useless channel. :huh:


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

z06gal: you should have great sound in stereo too, your settings must be off/need tweaking.

bambino: I've got 2 unused ch on my outlaw, I tried using them for my subs @165w, but they just didn't do it, so I went back to my 275w samson: a real difference. I've got those 2 ch for when I go to 7.1 If I had a decent receiver, I'd save my coin on the surrounds. You've got it good now :T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Glen beat me to that one, I was going to say about the same thing. I have 2 unused channels on my Rotel 1075. Sometimes I will use them for 2 channel listening like the last few days when its been so hot. Using the tube amp for 2 ch was just out of the question....even though it sounds much better. I guess its better to have too many channels instead of not enough.:rofl:


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Z06, yes that oppo should sound great. How do you have it connected to your AVR? analog, or digital? Again I would disable the EQ on your AVR and see how it sounds with no EQ applied. Pg 88 in your manual.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Z06, yes that oppo should sound great. How do you have it connected to your AVR? analog, or digital? Again I would disable the EQ on your AVR and see how it sounds with no EQ applied. Pg 88 in your manual.



It's an hdmi connection. I'll disable eq and see how that sounds. That may do the trick but 5.1 sounds really good.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yeah the 5.1 probably sounds good. Try hooking up a pair of analog interconnect cables fro the oppo to the pioneer. I have a BDP 83SE and the 2 channel sounds excellent as well as the 5.1 but I use analog interconnects for both. I let the Oppo decode the multi channel for movies and then send it to my pre/pro. It sounds excellent for both. I am considering sending the unit in to Modright for their upgrade, and then I will use the 83SE for digital 2 channel.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks Glen & dwr, I guess your right about you can never have too many channels. To me the XPA5 is a Better deal with all the channels and all but the XPA2 is a power house, and with the 5 i have no need to biamp being that 200watts is plenty enough for my Monitor 11's, but extra channels and the possibility of upgrading to more powerful speakers is always an option. Thanks for the input guys.:T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yeah the 5.1 probably sounds good. Try hooking up a pair of analog interconnect cables fro the oppo to the pioneer. I have a BDP 83SE and the 2 channel sounds excellent as well as the 5.1 but I use analog interconnects for both. I let the Oppo decode the multi channel for movies and then send it to my pre/pro. It sounds excellent for both. I am considering sending the unit in to Modright for their upgrade, and then I will use the 83SE for digital 2 channel.



gotcha. what about optical digital? I have both if it matters. I turned the eq off but it didn't sound any better. it is very hollow sounding so hopefully the other interconnects will help.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

no the optical is still a digital connection.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> no the optical is still a digital connection.



It sounds a little better but there it sounds like there is zero bass in stereo mode. 5.1 is totally different.


dwr, i'm reading the manual and it recommends something called stream direct for "pure" analog or digital. it says "all necessary signal processing is bypassed so i'll see what that does. i can't believe how many listening modes this unit has.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yep there are multiple things the AVRs do. But if you can just get the signal to the amps without any anything added to it maybe you can figure out if you have a problem. The one thing I do know is that the Oppo is a quality unit that sounds real good I had one before the SE. Do you have a 2 channel bypass on your reciever so that it just plays the 2 channel signal?


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yep there are multiple things the AVRs do. But if you can just get the signal to the amps without any anything added to it maybe you can figure out if you have a problem. The one thing I do know is that the Oppo is a quality unit that sounds real good I had one before the SE. Do you have a 2 channel bypass on your reciever so that it just plays the 2 channel signal?



dwr, i literally just read that in the manual. lol. firstly, you have to "tune" each mode which i did not know. so, when i changed it to stereo mode, i went into the audio parameter and turned bass on and i actually turned the treble way down. i'm going to listen to some music via the hdmi and then the rca to see how it sounds. at least i can play with the settings in that mode. there is also a distortion control feature if that is an issue that can be turned on and off. one issue i have is that i have hardwood flooring. i do have an 8x11 area rug but the settings from the auto calibration make every sound hollow with a little echo. some of the changes i made tonight after reading the settings have helped tremendously. maybe i'll figure it out before christmas. LOL


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

It is good progress and you are learning how to work that AVR, all positives. Keep on adjusting the settings manually to see what sounds best to you. LOL and yes maybe by Christmas you will completely understand and be able to adjust that AVR.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> It is good progress and you are learning how to work that AVR, all positives. Keep on adjusting the settings manually to see what sounds best to you. LOL and yes maybe by Christmas you will completely understand and be able to adjust that AVR.



I just appreciate all you guys helping me out so much. I'd be so lost without having that. No telling what I would have going here were it not for the generosity here. I can report that I have gone into the manual settings where it goes through each channel and shoots out all the noises so many times, the dogs leave when I pick the remote up. LOL:bigsmile:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

dwr said:


> It is good progress and you are learning how to work that AVR, all positives. Keep on adjusting the settings manually to see what sounds best to you. LOL and yes maybe by Christmas you will completely understand and be able to adjust that AVR.


Thats good :rofl: dwr, i'm still learning my AVR and had it for 2 yrs and i'm still breacking out the manual! Good luck z06gal i'm sure you'll have it figured out by tomorrow, girls are smarter then guys. At least thats what my wife tells me.LOL!:whistling:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> Thats good :rofl: dwr, i'm still learning my AVR and had it for 2 yrs and i'm still breacking out the manual! Good luck z06gal i'm sure you'll have it figured out by tomorrow, girls are smarter then guys. At least thats what my wife tells me.LOL!:whistling:


Well she is a smart lady bambino. ANYBODY who has the responsibility of chasing twins has my utmost respect and admiration. What amazes me is, when I think it really does sound good, I start trying something else. Lol..."Hello, my name is Robin and I am addicted to my surround sound system." Class in unison = "Hi Robin!" Rofl


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> Well she is a smart lady bambino. ANYBODY who has the responsibility of chasing twins has my utmost respect and admiration. What amazes me is, when I think it really does sound good, I start trying something else. Lol..."Hello, my name is Robin and I am addicted to my surround sound system." Class in unison = "Hi Robin!" Rofl


Thanks for the nice comments and good luck with the addiction! Sorry to break it to ya though it's one habit you can't get rid of i've been addicted for almost 20 years:dontknow:. I don't have aproblem though! Or wait thats the first sign of denial. Hehe:innocent:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr, i am hoping you have some input on this one. i connected the analog interconnects as you suggested and when i do that, i lose my front left speaker. it works great digitally. i have checked everything and just don't get it. any ideas??


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Wow, no I really don't have any idea why your front left would not work through the analog connections. Well certainly stay with the digital connection then. I suppose it is possible that the Oppo is not putting anything out on the left side. try switching the left and right cables around going to the AVR and see if the signal moves or it remains just the right speaker with a signal.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Wow, no I really don't have any idea why your front left would not work through the analog connections. Well certainly stay with the digital connection then. I suppose it is possible that the Oppo is not putting anything out on the left side. try switching the left and right cables around going to the AVR and see if the signal moves or it remains just the right speaker with a signal.



ok dwr. i will give that a shot. i decided to check all my connections and actually received my balanced to rca today so i replaced my old ones with those. i reorganized everything a little better and will have not played a cd yet so i'll check that out. i have no idea what happened. it was working fine and then suddenly quit unless i went digital. i would like to ask another question. what settings in my eq do i change if my center channel is not quite as sharp as i'd like. it is a wee bit muffled and i'd like to make it brighter if that is a better word. the mcacc did not do a good job with the center channel in my opinion so i have been playing with it a little but there are alot of settings i'm afraid to change because i don't want to go the wrong way. lol


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yep that AVR really does have a lot of setting options. Just remember that the middle of the settings should be 0dB you can go up or down +dB or -dB just make small changes to start with. I believe your lowest frequency is 23Hz for your bass adjustment up to the 20kHz for your treble adjustment. The midrange frequencies are more important for your center channel as it handles most of the voice reproduction in movies so pay attention to the midrange for that. EQ settings are both personal preference and room dependent so trying to give someone advice on the settings is a hard thing to do, you will just have to try different settings and see what suits you and your room best. Just think of all the fun you'll have.:rofl:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Yep that AVR really does have a lot of setting options. Just remember that the middle of the settings should be 0dB you can go up or down +dB or -dB just make small changes to start with. I believe your lowest frequency is 23Hz for your bass adjustment up to the 20kHz for your treble adjustment. The midrange frequencies are more important for your center channel as it handles most of the voice reproduction in movies so pay attention to the midrange for that. EQ settings are both personal preference and room dependent so trying to give someone advice on the settings is a hard thing to do, you will just have to try different settings and see what suits you and your room best. Just think of all the fun you'll have.:rofl:



Now I feel better because the eq on my pioneer elite in my car is set up exactly like that. It took me 3 months of tinkering before I got it like I wanted it but it is different in that it is in an enclosed area. I'm going to make small changes to the center settings on it which is all I think I'll need to mess with. The mcacc made it sound too hollow or something so I started over. :coocoo: Oh, I just saw some dali's on audiogon but you have me intrigued about the abbeys.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Well as for speakers I just put mine on their permanent stands this morning, they look much better than those yellow Ikea tables I had them on. The Dalis are excellent speakers but you really need to listen to the speakers you are considering. Everybody has different impressions when listening to the same pair of speakers, I have seen this at shows I have attended, and the room conditions at shows is generally not very good to be nice about it. I have walked into a room and heard a system playing and thought to myself man that sounds like and then heard the two guys in front of me saying how great they thought it sounded. Who's right and who's wrong, nobody, everybody prefers things to sound like they like it. It was nice though at the last show I was at, Earl showed up and we had pretty much the same impressions of the 4 systems we listened to. So would I recommend the Abbeys to you, yes I would, with the disclaimer that you really need to listen to a pair that are set up in a proper room and decide for yourself. You should also listen to a pair of the Dali Helicons and the Focal 1027 BE speakers also.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Here they are on their new stands.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

dwr said:


> Well as for speakers I just put mine on their permanent stands this morning, they look much better than those yellow Ikea tables I had them on. The Dalis are excellent speakers but you really need to listen to the speakers you are considering. Everybody has different impressions when listening to the same pair of speakers, I have seen this at shows I have attended, and the room conditions at shows is generally not very good to be nice about it. I have walked into a room and heard a system playing and thought to myself man that sounds like and then heard the two guys in front of me saying how great they thought it sounded. Who's right and who's wrong, nobody, everybody prefers things to sound like they like it. It was nice though at the last show I was at, Earl showed up and we had pretty much the same impressions of the 4 systems we listened to. So would I recommend the Abbeys to you, yes I would, with the disclaimer that you really need to listen to a pair that are set up in a proper room and decide for yourself. You should also listen to a pair of the Dali Helicons and the Focal 1027 BE speakers also.



Right on dwr. Fortunately, I found a Dali dealer in Raleigh so I plan to check them out. I was hoping to find somebody in my neck of the woods that has any of the geddes line to hear. What I may do is find a pretty decent speaker until we get our room upstairs done. It is 1500 sq. ft. and it will be absolutely perfect for h/t as well as listening to music. I would be able to do some sound proofing and it would have carpet. We are hoping to get it done some time next year depending upon the economy. I hate to buy speakers now that will not work up there but these polk bookshelves have got to go. Lol :R:R I'll listen to some different ones and make up my mind. I definitely want to hear the focals and I am very sure they would do well up there. Decisions, decisions!! :yikes: Your speakers look magnificent on the stands. I am so curious to hear those speakers after all I've read. I have not read one negative report/review yet which says alot I think. 

Also, I decided to do a stereo preset and have set it up for 2 channel listening only. It sounds so much better it is not even funny even in these polks. Real speakers would be gravy. It has nice bass so far and I am working on the highs. I'll get there eventually. :T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I forgot to ask you about a sub. I need to pick one up since my old one bit the dust. My main sub is the mirage bps 400 and it really does a nice job but I want to add another to balance everything out. What would you recommend? Are the svs subs pretty good? I'm not looking to spend a fortune = just adding one for balance. Thanks.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Yes the svs subs are definetly a good sub


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

I now have a 30 amp dedicated circuit. He was stunned that the outlets in my living room are only 15 amps which explains why I kept throwing the breaker. Anywho, that's the deal and the cost was $80 which I think it not bad at all given the fact that I don't want to blow up my house. Lol


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> I now have a 30 amp dedicated circuit. He was stunned that the outlets in my living room are only 15 amps which explains why I kept throwing the breaker. Anywho, that's the deal and the cost was $80 which I think it not bad at all given the fact that I don't want to blow up my house. Lol


That sounds like a way good deal you can't beat! Are you thinking about the SVS subs still, the new one they have coming out (or maybe it's out:huh is something to drool over.:hsd::T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> That sounds like a way good deal you can't beat! Are you thinking about the SVS subs still, the new one they have coming out (or maybe it's out:huh is something to drool over.:hsd::T



Yeppers. Now that I finally figured out all the settings on the sc-25 eq, I'll be able to make use of that nicely. Is there medicine for this? Lol


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> Yeppers. Now that I finally figured out all the settings on the sc-25 eq, I'll be able to make use of that nicely. Is there medicine for this? Lol


Glad to hear you got everything eq'd out :T. Oh the only medicine i know of is more:spend::spend:.:rofl::rofl:


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> Glad to hear you got everything eq'd out :T. Oh the only medicine i know of is more:spend::spend:.:rofl::rofl:



Bambino, that is not good medicine in this economy. :rofl2:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Dali's are lovely Speakers. I definitely recommend Auditioning Focal's before making a decision on Speakers. I would also add Dynaudio to this search. 

If wanting to spend a bit less, PSB really has been releasing some fantastic Speakers. While I always groan when Companies like PSB move Production from Canada, where they are based, to China, the Measurements of the new Speakers and the Professional Reviews have been utterly fantastic. Especially for the price.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Dali's are lovely Speakers. I definitely recommend Auditioning Focal's before making a decision on Speakers. I would also add Dynaudio to this search.
> 
> If wanting to spend a bit less, PSB really has been releasing some fantastic Speakers. While I always groan when Companies like PSB move Production from Canada, where they are based, to China, the Measurements of the new Speakers and the Professional Reviews have been utterly fantastic. Especially for the price.
> ...



JJ, I have seen dynaudio mentioned alot. Which of their speakers do you like? I know there are generally a number of different ones. Also, I have my eye on a set of focal's on audiogon that haven't sold but I want to hear others. I need to see if we have a dynaudio dealer near here anywhere. Thanks. :T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

z06gal said:


> Bambino, that is not good medicine in this economy. :rofl2:


I'm sorry it was just a suggestion it's the only thing that helps with my addiction i just don't have enough of it to medicate me properly. :devil:


About the speakers, i will envy you if you get some Focals., heard lots of good things about them i was eyeballing the Chorus826 W then thought about the repercussions from the wraith of u know who paddle. LOL!


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> I'm sorry it was just a suggestion it's the only thing that helps with my addiction i just don't have enough of it to medicate me properly. :devil:
> 
> 
> About the speakers, i will envy you if you get some Focals., heard lots of good things about them i was eyeballing the Chorus826 W then thought about the repercussions from the wraith of u know who paddle. LOL!



The set I'd like to have is on audiogon right now. The Focal 1037be that dwr and jj have mentioned but, after just doing home improvement work, I am not quite ready. There sure is some nice stuff that shows up there and I am betting they will always have a good selection. I found a psb dealer, jj, so now I'll check on dynaudio and see where I can go to hear them. Bambino, when I buy something, my husband walks in the door and, if he even notices it, will say "i don't want to know." LOL


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Robin, check out Kal Rubinson's excellent Review of the new PSB Image Series :http://stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/psb_image_t6_loudspeaker/

I have owned a few pairs of PSB over the years and built many HT's around their Speakers and they sound absurdly good for the money.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Bambino, check this out:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1283293273&/Focal-826v---cc908-


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Oh wow! Envy has set in:crying:, that looks like an awesome deal. Are those the ones your concidering? If i didn't allready have my full setup I'd jump all over them even without a listen. I don't think we have a dealer within 100 miles of us to audition quality speakers that have been listed on this thread:doh:. I am however very happy with my Paradigms, even more so now that i've got the Emotiva driving them. :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That looks like a great deal. I am seriously considering switching back to conventional Speakers. While I love my Martin Logan HT, I have used Electrostats for over a decade.

If I do go back, it is either going to be Focal, Dynaudio, Thiel, Revel, Wilson, or B&W. Beryllium Tweeter Focal's are neck and neck with Thiel CS 3.7's for my next pair of Main Speakers.

Robin, considering the price, that really would be a great Front Stage. Moreover, should you get the itch to upgrade, you will be able to get back most if not all of your outlay.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Good thoughts jungle, your definatley right on being able to get her money back say if they don't work out for her tastes.:T


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> That looks like a great deal. I am seriously considering switching back to conventional Speakers. While I love my Martin Logan HT, I have used Electrostats for over a decade.
> 
> If I do go back, it is either going to be Focal, Dynaudio, Thiel, Revel, Wilson, or B&W. Beryllium Tweeter Focal's are neck and neck with Thiel CS 3.7's for my next pair of Main Speakers.
> ...


Have you had a listen to the JBL monitors Harman uses for reference testing? I really want to get my hands on a pair of those.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> That looks like a great deal. I am seriously considering switching back to conventional Speakers. While I love my Martin Logan HT, I have used Electrostats for over a decade.
> 
> If I do go back, it is either going to be Focal, Dynaudio, Thiel, Revel, Wilson, or B&W. Beryllium Tweeter Focal's are neck and neck with Thiel CS 3.7's for my next pair of Main Speakers.
> ...



I know JJ. I keep looking at it and the focal 1037be listing is still there as well which I would rather have. Lawd this is addictive stuff. Lol :yikes:


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

z06gal said:


> I know JJ. I keep looking at it and the focal 1037be listing is still there as well which I would rather have. Lawd this is addictive stuff. Lol :yikes:


Yeah, but DIY audio is 10 times worse. I've got so many drivers laying around collecting dust that my wife is ready to choke me out.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> Yeah, but DIY audio is 10 times worse. I've got so many drivers laying around collecting dust that my wife is ready to choke me out.



Lordy I can't imagine me building speakers. I want em to come ready to roll.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> Have you had a listen to the JBL monitors Harman uses for reference testing? I really want to get my hands on a pair of those.


Hello,
Actually, I have listened to those JBL Monitors and they sound great. One of my best friends owns a Studio and uses them. He recently was loaned a pair of Active Focal Studio Monitors (SM11) that are stupendous as well. The Focals cost around 15,000 Dollars though.

Speaking of all of this, another Speaker that is on my list is TAD. This is Pioneer's Professional Line and their S-1EX might be the best Speakers I have ever listened to that do not cost more than a House. The S-1 retails for 9000 Dollars. While certainly not cheap, it is not a massive amount more than my current Mains. Enough to make me wince however.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Actually, I have listened to those JBL Monitors and they sound great. One of my best friends owns a Studio and uses them. He recently was loaned a pair of Active Focal Studio Monitors (SM11) that are stupendous as well. The Focals cost around 15,000 Dollars though.
> 
> Speaking of all of this, another Speaker that is on my list is TAD. This is Pioneer's Professional Line and their S-1EX might be the best Speakers I have ever listened to that do not cost more than a House. The S-1 retails for 9000 Dollars. While certainly not cheap, it is not a massive amount more than my current Mains. Enough to make me wince however.
> ...



JJ, how hot do your amps get? Since adding a 30 amp circuit, my Proceed gets super hot. Could it be because it is finally getting the right amount of current? My sound seems much more efficient and I don't think it is psychological. :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

z06gal said:


> JJ, how hot do your amps get? Since adding a 30 amp circuit, my Proceed gets super hot. Could it be because it is finally getting the right amount of current? My sound seems much more efficient and I don't think it is psychological. :T


Hello,
My HCA-3500 probably gets the hottest. Followed by the 8008bb and then the 2205AT. All 3 are Class AB with a Class A Bias. The 8008bb outputs 26 Watts in Class A until switching over into AB Operation.

That is awesome you got a 30 Amp Circuit. Most High End Amplifiers run hot. Class A Krell's run amazingly hot. As do many others.
Cheers,
JJ


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> My HCA-3500 probably gets the hottest. Followed by the 8008bb and then the 2205AT. All 3 are Class AB with a Class A Bias. The 8008bb outputs 26 Watts in Class A until switching over into AB Operation.
> 
> That is awesome you got a 30 Amp Circuit. Most High End Amplifiers run hot. Class A Krell's run amazingly hot. As do many others.
> ...



Ok JJ. I feel better because I wasn't sure if something was wrong. I put a fan on it on low to cool it down some. I am very pleased with the way it sounds now even with the polks. I know it can only get better with some full range speakers. I think the next time around I may do a preamp/processor instead of an a/v receiver. I've read some nice reviews especially on the rotel units but that would be way down the road. :T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Oh my z06, if you want to read some good reviews on pre/pros read up on Anthem,Arcam, and Meridian units. I almost bought an Anthem D2 used on Audiogon about 4 months ago when I first started rebuilding my system. I just couldn't justify spending the coin and kept my Rotel.


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Hey guys! I decided to clean up my speaker cables so I bought some through amazon that had pretty decent reviews. I had monster thx [aluminum i think?] and it was so big and bulky I got sick of dealing with it plus the banana plugs that came on it would not stay in because, I assume, it was too heavy. Anyway, I got the new yesterday and connected it. I bi-amped my front left and right with both amps and put on a movie. We were watching Sherlock Holmes and my husband looked at me and said, "have you done something different? it sounds better for some reason." He knows zero about this stuff so I told him I changed the speaker wire. Anyway, here is what I got = http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002X376R2/ref=oss_product

I will say I am impressed that it is not flimsy at all. Anyone tried it? :T

I do realize the improved sound may be due to the bi-amping as well.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thats great, it's amazing what effect small changes will have on your sound, and even better when your sinificant other notices.:clap::T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

bambino said:


> Thats great, it's amazing what effect small changes will have on your sound, and even better when your sinificant other notices.:clap::T



Well bambino, I thought it sounded better but sometimes those things can be psychological just because you changed something. Lol....when he made that comment, I knew wasn't imagining it. That stuff is great for bi-amping and is much neater.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Z06 look on Audiogon at the pair of Dali Helicon MK II speakers listed today, they are a screaming good deal and may be fairly close to you,(possible pick-up) as opposed to paying for shipping.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Just wanted to comment on my system now that i have the XPA2 up and running. 
With just the XPA5 my system was night and day different (in a very good way), now that i have an XPA2 in the mix it's even better!
I never thought i could tell a differance in biamping when using just my AVR (which i don't think i could). Now i have it set up so the fronts are using the XPA2 for the low end and i'm using the left over 2 channels from the XPA5 for the high end and it's another night and day differance. Truely amazing going to outboard amplification, just wish i could have done it sooner.:T


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## z06gal (Jun 6, 2010)

Bambino!! Good to hear that. Well, something went wrong with a couple my Pioneer SC-25's preouts and I lost my front speakers. Connecting them directly to the receiver just did not cut it so I bought a Rotel 1098 pre/pro with dwr's input on what to get. He found this unit on audiogon and linked me to it and I got it today. Wow! There really is a big difference b/w receivers and processors. I have my Proceed 3 channel amp and an xpa-5 with my front mains biamped. Dwr encouraged me to allow my oppo to do the decoding via the multichannel inputs and that makes a HUGE difference. It really is very straight forward to set up but the sound is apples to oranges from that sc-25. Now I just need good speakers and I'll be in bidness as they say here. The sound fills the room up nicely and it is so clean/smooth. It doesn't matter how loud I turn it up, it is still clean. I have officially been bitten by the bug. Lol....my husband will be thrilled.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thats awesome when your able to turn the volume up so it's stupid loud and it's still clean, gotta love it! Let us know what you do for speakers i'm curious about a different setup, think my wife will keep this setup in her room and then i can 1 up what i let her have. HAha!:T


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

Bambino,
you will need the best digital preamp with miracle features that youll need with your amp
1 suprise will come from denon 100th anniversary new secret product, wait and see and keep your denon 3808 in the meantime, DVI


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

gumberlack said:


> Bambino,
> you will need the best digital preamp with miracle features that youll need with your amp
> 1 suprise will come from denon 100th anniversary new secret product, wait and see and keep your denon 3808 in the meantime, DVI


You always keep me hangin on and wondering DVI. I can't wait but now i have an idea, Thanks man!:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Since i'm in such suspence can you tell me what the date is of the big surprise?:sn:


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

Bambino ;
have no date september october a product has your signature on it and will fit your amp to perfection, you will use it as a preamp but when you discover certain unique and very special feature
youll want it; avr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cannot talk further wait and hear; DVI


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Awesome! I'm lovin it like Mcdonalds now so i really can't wait to see what comes our way.:T


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## antr (Jun 10, 2010)

Is emotiva really sounding good, my experience is that you get what you pay for. 
My recomendation is Nuforce....


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

antr said:


> Is emotiva really sounding good?


Yes, a definite overachiever. You can keep your digital amps. The only ones I've heard that sound better than the Emotiva UPA-1 also cost ten times as much.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

antr said:


> Is emotiva really sounding good, my experience is that you get what you pay for.
> My recomendation is Nuforce....


You may get what you pay for but i'd say my pennies went really far buying these two amps. Can't beat'em for the money without taking out a second morgtage on the house.:bigsmile:
Yes they are that good.:sn:


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## palehorse (Aug 26, 2010)

If only I could find myself a used XPA-5... :sad:


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

palehorse said:


> If only I could find myself a used XPA-5... :sad:


http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium&action=display&thread=13139


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## palehorse (Aug 26, 2010)

jackfish said:


> http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium&action=display&thread=13139


I wish... he has not been responding to my posts or pm's... but, my fingers are still crossed.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I wouldn't be surprised if they have another sale soon as they have some new products coming out, I can't wait!:bigsmile:


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

bambino said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they have another sale soon as they have some new products coming out, I can't wait!:bigsmile:


A sale would be real nice.:clap: Plus, with new products (amps maybe??), upgradinitis will hopefully means some used emo amps on the market for palehorse and me. Maybe a Labor Day sale?? Emotiva, are you listening?:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

New amp is one of the new products, A 400watt x 7 channel monster.:devil: I forget what the other new stuff coming is as i've only got my eyes on that amp.:bigsmile:
The last sale they had around the 4th of july everything was 10% off, i think they sold out of almost everything.


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## bignorm (Oct 8, 2010)

palehorse said:


> If only I could find myself a used XPA-5... :sad:


used XPA-5 at Audiogon $725.00


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

bignorm said:


> used XPA-5 at Audiogon $725.00


They usually go for less when on sale plus free shipping, so if one could hold out thats what i'd do.:T


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

bambino said:


> New amp is one of the new products, A 400watt x 7 channel monster.


Maybe if you plug it into the stove outlet... to get a stable 2800 watts you'd certainly need a 30ampere line....


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

30 amps? Yeah, that should be plenty. Gonna need 10AWG wire to go along with that.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

An update:
My upgradeitus got the best of me this week and do to Emotiva's Holiday sale i pulled the trigger on 2 XPA-1's and an XPA-5. I couldn't wait for there "monster" XRF-7 any longer as the arrival date keeps getting farther away, i was very happy with there XPA-2 and 5 i had previousley so with these 2 Mono-blocks and the 5 channel on there way they should settle me down for awhile:devil:.
Knowing me like i do i'll probly end up with the big 7 channel when it comes in, looks to me like it's time to upgrade my electrical, thank goodness for small houses and 200amps of service.:heehee:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

palehorse said:


> If only I could find myself a used XPA-5... :sad:


Holiday sale is on, Cheaper then used and free shipping.:T


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

bambino said:


> An update:
> My upgradeitus got the best of me this week and do to Emotiva's Holiday sale i pulled the trigger on 2 XPA-1's and an XPA-5. I couldn't wait for there "monster" XRF-7 any longer as the arrival date keeps getting farther away, i was very happy with there XPA-2 and 5 i had previousley so with these 2 Mono-blocks and the 5 channel on there way they should settle me down for awhile:devil:.
> Knowing me like i do i'll probly end up with the big 7 channel when it comes in, looks to me like it's time to upgrade my electrical, thank goodness for small houses and 200amps of service.:heehee:


Bambino, Congrats on the purchases :T and that's an irresistible sale Emotiva is running. So how're the neighbors liking it?:bigsmile:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Well... My neighbors have loved me from the day we moved into the neighborhood:devil:. Not. I do think i have earned bonus points with them however by shoveling snow and mowing there lawns, we'll see how it goes by the end of the week though, after the amps arive.:heehee:


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

bambino said:


> Well... My neighbors have loved me from the day we moved into the neighborhood:devil:. Not. I do think i have earned bonus points with them however by shoveling snow and mowing there lawns, we'll see how it goes by the end of the week though, after the amps arive.:heehee:


Shoveling snow and mowing lawns definitely earn you bonus points! But let hope it will not be an Artic winter this year!:bigsmile:

Now if by slim chance that the neighbors do object:hissyfit:, just send the amps my way. I don't think my neighbors would object.

Enjoy the amps!:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

LOL! I put off buying a snow blower for these amps, i figured i've got one more winter of shoveling left in me (i hope)lddude:.


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## FlashJim (May 6, 2006)

Just joined the family. I pulled the trigger on the XPA-5.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Congrats! How are you liking it? I know it's a great amp, hard to find one better at these prices.:sn: The XPA-1's are some beasts, also a steal at these prices and a force to be reckond with by any speaker.:devil:


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## FlashJim (May 6, 2006)

I actually don't get it until Tuesday. At least that's what Fed Ex says. 

I can't wait! I've been lusting after that amp since it came out.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Your gonna love it once it arrives.:sn:


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

FlashJim said:


> Just joined the family. I pulled the trigger on the XPA-5.


FlashJim,
Congrats! You gonna love the XPA-5. Concur, with bambino, it's a steal, especially at the holiday sale price point. And should (more likely "when") you decide to add the monos or upgrade later, there is a healthy market for these units due to it quality build and 5-yr transferable warranty.

Enjoy!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

If or when you do the Mono's make sure your speakers are up to the task of handleing them:flex:, they are some animals!


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

bambino said:


> If or when you do the Mono's make sure your speakers are up to the task of handleing them:flex:, they are some animals!


You are so right on that. BTW, I forgot what speakers are you driving with those Emotiva amps?

And are you sure the neighbors are still ok with these amps? :bigsmile: j/k


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I have Paradigm Monitor 11's, too much amp for them i'm afraid as i have allready blown the tweeters in both Towers and can smell the coils cooking in the midbass.:yikes: Can you say time for an upgrade?:heehee:


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

bambino said:


> I have Paradigm Monitor 11's, too much amp for them i'm afraid as i have allready blown the tweeters in both Towers and can smell the coils cooking in the midbass.:yikes: Can you say time for an upgrade?:heehee:


Wow!! In that case, I would say the time for speaker upgrade was yesterday.:T

So, what are the shortlisted guinea pigs . . . oh, I meant speakers,:whistling: to replace those 11's?


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Right now i'm contemplating the DIY route.:dontknow: Otherwise i'm at a loss as everything out there that can handle the kind of power i have is way over my budget.:yikes:
Any suggestions?:huh:


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## FlashJim (May 6, 2006)

My vote is DIY!


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

DIY would be the best "bang" for the bucks. 

Save on labor costs and built to your taste. 

Something from GR Research maybe?


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## Theresa (Aug 23, 2010)

I finally got the Emotiva UMC-1, XPA-3, UPA-5, and Dayton amp all setup. Everything sounds cleaner and more effortless than the Yamaha DSP-A1 they replaced. The speakers are a pair of Eton Symphony 7s from Madisound, a ScanSpeak Rediscovery for the center (in a smaller cabinet than recommended), two very old subs with NHT1259s in them all using 2 miniDSPs for crossovers, and the Emotiva surrounds. I too am a female audiophile. An odd set of circumstances led to my interest in audio, with my father introducing me to it when he let me help build a Dynaco tube system when I was very young. It is one of the few fond memories I have of him.
I am really amazed at how good my system sounds although it is annoying my upstairs neighbor. S/he stomps around all day and night in heavy boots and then has the gall to stomp harder if I have it at a decent level.


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

dear THERESA you need to build yourself a private room. build a room within a room

with metal stud not wood and rock mineral wool not the cheap pink or yellow one resilent bar on the stud and 2 or 3 layer of 4x8 plaster gyproc 5-8 of an inch thick with a space of 1 inch minimum between the existing wall and the new metal stud
this will provide you with 32 db attenution at 32 hertz and around 50 db in the mid level
cre dvi


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

bambino said:


> Right now i'm contemplating the DIY route.:dontknow: Otherwise i'm at a loss as everything out there that can handle the kind of power i have is way over my budget.:yikes:
> Any suggestions?:huh:


Wow, a DIY speaker that can handle the XPA-1? I have the Dynamic 4T's which can handle a bit of power due to the multitude of drivers, but it's still a speaker built with conventional home audio oriented drivers. The XPA-1 would certainly have enough power to damage them too, but I feel they'd hold up better than the Monitor 11's. 

You could also look into options using PA woofers and compression drivers. They're more durable and also more efficient, so you'd turn them up less and be much less likely to blow them. For example, the econowaves or Augerpro's No Quarters? But I think QSC is halting the sale of the 152i horns.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

looneybomber said:


> Wow, a DIY speaker that can handle the XPA-1? I have the Dynamic 4T's which can handle a bit of power due to the multitude of drivers, but it's still a speaker built with conventional home audio oriented drivers. The XPA-1 would certainly have enough power to damage them too, but I feel they'd hold up better than the Monitor 11's.
> 
> You could also look into options using PA woofers and compression drivers. They're more durable and also more efficient, so you'd turn them up less and be much less likely to blow them. For example, the econowaves or Augerpro's No Quarters? But I think QSC is halting the sale of the 152i horns.


Thanks for the advice Looney. Just of curiousity what kind of power are you throwing at your speakers?


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

It'll eat up everything my bi-amped Pioneer VSX-1014 can throw at it (4T). I've never tried to test the limits of it with my EP2500, but I have a feeling I could do some damage if I wanted. But if a person plays it smart, speakers should rarely get damaged.

...That said, I've had my dumb moments ;-)


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Dumb moments can be fun too.:dumbcrazy::bigsmile:


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## dwisner (Nov 7, 2010)

I would recomend the Statements
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html

Similar to the Dynamic 4T's but with some larger woofers. They sound amazing. 

Dane


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## macmovieman (Dec 7, 2010)

I am loving my XPA-2 and XPA-3!!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Congrats on the new Amps.:T I've had the XPA-2 and it is a very nice unit. Currently i have an XPA-5 and 2 XPA-1's and couldn't begin to write down on how great of amps they are.:T


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## FlashJim (May 6, 2006)

I've been running my XPA-5 for a couple of weeks now. I finally got the family out of the house so I could play around with it. 

I popped NIN Beside You in Time into the HD-DVD player and cranked it. I'm still running my JBL NSP-1s, but it sounded great. 

I got my crossover parts in for my Dayton TMWW/WTMW LCRs and my RS225/RS28 MT surrounds. My Father in-law will be here the 15th. I'll be in the garage a good bit this winter.


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## steiny93 (Jan 8, 2009)

this is a great thread; thanks for all the feedback and opinions regarding the emotiva line
definately has me looking more so at swapping out some components for emotiva love


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## Theresa (Aug 23, 2010)

I just ordered a UPA-2 for my surrounds. The amp I had been using was a Dayton 75 watts into 4 ohms but its sensitivity is so low that I have to boost its levels by 10db to even hear it. I hope the new amp will be enough. I have a UPA-5 and a XPA-3 for the fronts with 300 watts going to each sub. After much thought I decided this would provide the best cost to performance improvement for my system and is my xmas present to myself.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

I think I need to treat my self to xmas present too Theresa, now what do I need...:scratch:


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## Deane Johnson (Sep 18, 2006)

If anyone has been wondering about Emtova's financial health given all they must have spent on the UMC-1, it's apparently pretty good. They just acquired Sherbourn.

http://www.cepro.com/article/sherbourn_acquired_by_oem_maker_jade_design/D1/


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

Deane Johnson said:


> If anyone has been wondering about Emtova's financial health given all they must have spent on the UMC-1, it's apparently pretty good. They just acquired Sherbourn.
> 
> http://www.cepro.com/article/sherbourn_acquired_by_oem_maker_jade_design/D1/


That's a good merger, with great synergy. Great products now, and even great products down the line. Gotta love that!

Ok, Big Dan, how about a super merger/acquisition sale, a Mother-of-all-sale kinda of sale, eh?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

My 2011 slush fund has officially began for the 7.1 processor and amp pair - hopefully it doesn't get redirected to something less exciting


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## Unobtainium (Jan 21, 2011)

Pretty happy with my new Xpa-2. Heavy, but build quality exceeds my expectations for the money.


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