# What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Paradigm 100's v3?



## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

I have a pair of Para 100's v3 that I will be running as well as the Para center and surround speakers in my basement HT. I plan to use the system for music and HT 50/50. I need some help on which reciever, processor or amp i need to run this system to the best. Do I go with a processor and amp and use the bi-wire option on the 100's v3 or just run a high end Reciever to push this whole system. This is my first time trying to get this type of HT system setup so any advice will be helpful. If if could stay between the 800-1100 dollar range that will be great.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

Get a well-equipped receiver with pre-outputs - such as the Marantz SR5007 ($849, shipped, at Amazon.com) - and don't bother bi-amping.

If/when you add more speakers (a CC speaker and surrounds), add an Emotiva amp to power them; or use the Emotiva amp to power your front three and let the AVR handle the surrounds.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

Depending on your budget I would highly recommend this Onkyo 3009
You would never need an external amp with this receiver and its got every feature you will ever need including Audyssey MultEQ XT32, The very best video processor available using the HQV Vida chip. It also has THX Ultra 2+ certification and many more useful items.


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## OZZIERP (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

You might want to look at Pioneer's Elite line with the D3 amps as an installer I am amazed at what these amps bring to the table without breaking a sweat they can handle the Paradigm Studios ,KEF's 205 and Polks LSI with no problem as these higher end units tend to have low impedance on the bottom end.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

What about Onkyo 3010 vs 3009? Is one better than other and is the extra money on the 3010 worth it over the 3009?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

There is very little change over the 3009. its up to you I guess if you want to have the duel core vida chip in the 3010 but the 3010 dropped 2 lbs of weight and I suspect they changed the size of the power supplies (a big difference in actual power output) over the 3009.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

What about a 5007 over these two?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

Although the amplification section is stronger by a little bit it does not have Audyssey Multi EQ XT32 and thats a big one for me and it does not pass HDMI 1.4 so its not 3D capable if you plan to use that.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

Ok thanks for the feedback I have one last question and then I should be able to make a decision. What are your thoughts about the 5009 or 5010 over the 3009 and 3010?


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*



> ... it does not pass HDMI 1.4 so its not 3D capable ...


I don't understand. According to the SR5007 product page:


> The SR5007 includes built-in 3D pass-through technology that enables it to route 3D video signals from a Blu-ray player to your HDTV. As a result, you can enjoy Blu-ray 3D discs in dynamic surround sound. The receiver also supports the 4K high-resolution video standard, allowing you to play 4K videos on compatible displays and projectors. The receiver supports both 4K pass-through and 4K upscaling technologies.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

Sorry I thought you meant the Onkyo 5007 Thats a 3 year old model Marantz is pushing it by using the same model number as Onkyo Im surprised Onkyo has not said anything.
The Marantz does not have Audyssey XT 32 either (very few receivers do) and it also does not have the same quality video chip as the Onkyo.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*



bernch5 said:


> Ok thanks for the feedback I have one last question and then I should be able to make a decision. What are your thoughts about the 5009 or 5010 over the 3009 and 3010?


The biggest difference in the 30xx and 50xx is the 5009 and 5010 use a toroidal power supply meaning they are more efficient cleaner and simply better than a standard power supply used in most receivers.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*



> ... If if could stay between the 800-1100 dollar range that will be great. ...
> 
> What are your thoughts about the 5009 or 5010 over the 3009 and 3010?


Since you're eyeing AVRs that are well over your initial ~$1,100 price cap, the Denon AVR-4311 ($1,549.99 at Amazon.com) is another option worth considering. It's well-rated and well-equipped, including HDMI 1.4a and MultEQ XT32 w/ Sub EQ HT.

Ditto the Denon AVR-4520 ($2,499 at Amazon.com). See this HTS review for more information.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*



> Sorry I thought you meant the Onkyo 5007 ...


OK, thanks for the clarification.



> Thats a 3 year old model Marantz is pushing it by using the same model number as Onkyo Im surprised Onkyo has not said anything.


Can't see why Onkyo would care: Their model was the TX-NR5007 while Marantz's is the SR5007.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

Marantz 7007 is probably the winner here. It'll run you about $1300. In my opinion its more refined than the Pioneer D3 and Yamaha Aventage receivers. I also feel it has a higher build quality than comparable Onkyo receivers. The Marantz 7007 also features Audyssey MultEQXT (upgradeable to Pro).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

With the Marantz 7007 not having XT32 and sub EQ I dont see how thats a better option. Upgrading to "Audyssey Pro" is not really a viable option. the Marantz also does not have the HQV vida chip


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

I've done quite a few side by sides and the amps in the Marantz sound much more musical than most of the competition. See for your self- Compare current generation Marantz to Pioneer D3 and Yamaha Adventage as well as Denon.


http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/receivers/marantz-sr5008-sr6008-sr7008


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

I found a good price for a TX nr5007 can someone let me know if this is a good product or should I wait for the 30xx or 50xx when I find one in my range.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

The TX-NR5007 is not 3D and 4K capable, and it has MultEQ XT instead of XT32. Other than that, it's a well-equipped and well-rated AVR.

Your call.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

Ok I've been looking into the Denon 4311, 4520 and Onkyo 3009. For the price ranges below which option is best? Would a 4311 be just fine for my system at the cheper price or will spending the extra money for one of the higher two be a big difference that I will notice and which one over the other?

Denon 4311 $1000-1200
Denon 4520 $1600-1900
Onkyo 3009 $1600-1900


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

If you can afford it, go for the Denon 4520. Sonnie gave it great reviews for it's strong amplifier section and you won't be rolling the reliability dice with Onkyo.


http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...s/65664-denon-avr-4520ci-receiver-review.html


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

bernch5 said:


> Ok I've been looking into the Denon 4311, 4520 and Onkyo 3009. For the price ranges below which option is best? Would a 4311 be just fine for my system at the cheper price or will spending the extra money for one of the higher two be a big difference that I will notice and which one over the other?
> 
> Denon 4311 $1000-1200
> Denon 4520 $1600-1900
> Onkyo 3009 $1600-1900


I think you would be completely satisfied with any of the three you listed. They all employ Audyssey MultEQ XT32 which would be high on my list. If any of the reported Onkyo QC issues concern you and you want to save a little money I'd go with the 4311. If those same issues don't worry you and money is not a huge factor I would go with the 3009. Having said all of that I would personally choose the Onkyo 3009.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*



tonyvdb said:


> The biggest difference in the 30xx and 50xx is the 5009 and 5010 use a toroidal power supply meaning they are more efficient cleaner and simply better than a standard power supply used in most receivers.


A toroidal transformer is smaller, lighter, and radiates a smaller magnetic field than an E-I transformer of equivalent ratings. That does not make a toroid better per se or cleaner, just different. Both transformer types have their pros and cons. There are a lot of very good amps that use a standard transformer.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

Okay I've been debating back and forth on this and looks like I have to budget myself to 1k for an avr. I've been bouncing between marantz sr7007 and onkyo nr929. Can I get some feedback on this or recommendations on something else.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*



Glen B said:


> A toroidal transformer is smaller, lighter, and radiates a smaller magnetic field than an E-I transformer of equivalent ratings. That does not make a toroid better per se or cleaner, just different. Both transformer types have their pros and cons. There are a lot of very good amps that use a standard transformer.


I missed this thread when it was originally active.
I concur with you about the transformers.
Both designs have merit.
In many ways 'toroidal' has pretty much become a HiFi marketing term.
Robust design margins, high quality materials, and well controlled assembly is more important in complete power supply design than toroidal vs E-I transformer selection.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*



bernch5 said:


> Okay I've been debating back and forth on this and looks like I have to budget myself to 1k for an avr. I've been bouncing between marantz sr7007 and onkyo nr929. Can I get some feedback on this or recommendations on something else.


Do both have every feature you want ?
What speakers do you have ?
Do you think one looks better than the other ?


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

I currently have para studio 100 v3, 690 v4, 2 15 subs and will eventually get a pair of studio 20's for my surrounds. I will also be running a projector 3D Panasonic 8000 with this. I plan to use this whole system for music and ht 50/50.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

BTW I have an external amp that I can or plan to use for the two subs. I really dig the looks on Marantz but I don't want to make a choice by which one looks better unless these two alike in most ways. I've been taking in consideration the XT32 like most have mentioned here so do I need to make that a deal breaker between the two?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

You can get the Denon X4000 for under $1k...


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

I haven't looked into this until now and I'm digging it, has what I'm looking for even looks good. Thanks for mentioning this one to me.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

*Re: What Reciever, Processor, Amp for Para 100's v3?*

The speakers you have will not be a problem for any of the AVRs being bantered about.
So if the Marantz has all the features you want and is in your budget, there is no reason not to let styling be the deciding factor.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

Ok looks like I'm gonna have to go in a different route or different AVR. 

I've had this denon x4000 for over a year now and I been having issues with it going into protection. I've fought with this issue for this long now and just came upon some information that looks like this AVR can't handle 4 ohms speakers very well and will go into protection mode because of it since it's rated for 6 ohms speakers. My Paradigm 100 v3 seem to be the issue here since they are 4 ohms and drop to 2 ohms at times. 

So my question is should I go with a second amp or just move to a complete different AVR that won't give me issues handling these speakers and if so what suggestions do you have?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Hi Bernch,

I see now this is an old issue! Sorry I missed this original thread, as I would have advised exactly as I did in the other. This thread highlights both how poorly manufacturers supply relevant information....and how poorly the average consumer understand amplifiers, impedance magnitude and phase, etc.
Rather than rehash the other thread, why not just state your max budget for a fix?
As mentioned in the other, something as inexpensive as the Crown XLS (around $200) will solve the issue. Only issue there might be fan noise, but that too is solvable. If your budget allows for more, there are other options that don't require fan mods, etc.

cheers


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> Hi Bernch,
> 
> I see now this is an old issue! Sorry I missed this original thread, as I would have advised exactly as I did in the other. This thread highlights both how poorly manufacturers supply relevant information....and how poorly the average consumer understand amplifiers, impedance magnitude and phase, etc.
> Rather than rehash the other thread, why not just state your max budget for a fix?
> ...


As far as budget goes for a second amp to push my mains and center I would say $500ish. If I do this I should be able to run the subs from the denon correct or would I use the second amp?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

bernch5 said:


> As far as budget goes for a second amp to push my mains and center I would say $500ish. If I do this I should be able to run the subs from the denon correct or would I use the second amp?


I would stick with a stereo amp for LR and allow the Denon to drive all other channels.
1) Crown XLS1500. If fan noise is audible at your chair, mod it. Should drive the speakers with ease.
2) Alesis RA500. No fan. Not quite as powerful as the Crown, but should keep up with other channels no problem.
Around $200 ea.
With the $300 left over in the budget, I'll suggest 2 subs in your sub thread.

cheers


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> I would stick with a stereo amp for LR and allow the Denon to drive all other channels.
> 1) Crown XLS1500. If fan noise is audible at your chair, mod it. Should drive the speakers with ease.
> 2) Alesis RA500. No fan. Not quite as powerful as the Crown, but should keep up with other channels no problem.
> Around $200 ea.
> ...


I don't mind spending a little extra for an amp if that is what I need to do. I've decided not to go the cheapest route but at the same time I don't want the most expensive either. I was thinking $500-600 for the amp alone.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

bernch5 said:


> I don't mind spending a little extra for an amp if that is what I need to do. I've decided not to go the cheapest route but at the same time I don't want the most expensive either. I was thinking $500-600 for the amp alone.


You can pick up Used Yamaha P2500s amps all day long off of eBay for $250-$300. They are 250wpch (stereo), and are absolutely silent. I currently have 4 of them stacked in my rack (no space between them)in my setup, and they are always cool to lukewarm to the touch too.

Pro amps are often overlooked due to their being less expensive, but you get more bang for your buck with no loss in quality, and excellent durability IMO.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> You can pick up Used Yamaha P2500s amps all day long off of eBay for $250-$300. They are 250wpch (stereo), and are absolutely silent. I currently have 4 of them stacked in my rack (no space between them)in my setup, and they are always cool to lukewarm to the touch too.
> 
> Pro amps are often overlooked due to their being less expensive, but you get more bang for your buck with no loss in quality, and excellent durability IMO.


Thanks for this option because I do have a shelf rack myself and having an amp that overheats easily could be a problem for me.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

bernch5 said:


> I don't mind spending a little extra for an amp if that is what I need to do. I've decided not to go the cheapest route but at the same time I don't want the most expensive either. I was thinking $500-600 for the amp alone.


You shouldn't "need" more than what I suggested in terms of sound. However, other factors, such as mentioned heat etc, along with the ever important looks/aesthetics, can be important also. Maybe needed.
The Yamaha Ron suggested is excellent also. Might fill the looks department too.
If you feel the need to spend more, something just above your budget would be this compact, powerful and green (electrically) US made amp. Fanless.

cheers


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> You shouldn't "need" more than what I suggested in terms of sound. However, other factors, such as mentioned heat etc, along with the ever important looks/aesthetics, can be important also. Maybe needed.
> The Yamaha Ron suggested is excellent also. Might fill the looks department too.
> If you feel the need to spend more, something just above your budget would be this compact, powerful and green (electrically) US made amp. Fanless.
> 
> cheers


As far as heat concerns between the Yamaha and compact which one would be better for my situation being in a shelf system and cost wise what I'm I getting that Yamaha doesn't offer?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

In shelf? Do you have a photo?


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> In shelf? Do you have a photo?


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

More than likely it will go at the bottom shelf so I'll have to do some rearranging.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

I think all the amps mentioned will work there, just don't stack anything atop them. The Yamaha is around 18" deep, so you would have to make sure you have enough depth. The Class D Audio is obviously the smallest and most efficient (along with the Crown), but also the most expensive. This is going to be your decision as to which....if any.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> I think all the amps mentioned will work there, just don't stack anything atop them. The Yamaha is around 18" deep, so you would have to make sure you have enough depth. The Class D Audio is obviously the smallest and most efficient (along with the Crown), but also the most expensive. This is going to be your decision as to which....if any.


Thanks for all the feedback on the amps. So it looks like crown is $300-400 and class d is $600 I don't mind purchasing either one. My question is would I notice the difference for the extra cost or will one perform better without quickly overheating because of the location that it's going to be? If this was you which way would you go and why?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

bernch5 said:


> Thanks for all the feedback on the amps. So it looks like crown is $300-400 and class d is $600 I don't mind purchasing either one.


You're welcome. The Crown XLS1500 is around $200-250per Google.



bernch5 said:


> My question is would I notice the difference for the extra cost or will one perform better without quickly overheating because of the location that it's going to be? If this was you which way would you go and why?


As long as the amps have a little room to breathe, _all_ mentioned in the thread, including Alesis and Yamaha, etc., should be fine. You have control of that, as well as knowledge of the depth of the space. I can't say with any certainty whether the Crowns fan would kick in or not in your specific scenario, nor whether it would be audible at your chair. If you want to 100% avoid that possibility, the Class D (and Alesis, etc) is your option. If you want to save $400, the Crown et al is.

cheers


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> You're welcome. The Crown XLS1500 is around $200-250per Google.
> 
> As long as the amps have a little room to breathe, all mentioned in the thread, including Alesis and Yamaha, etc., should be fine. You have control of that, as well as knowledge of the depth of the space. I can't say with any certainty whether the Crowns fan would kick in or not in your specific scenario, nor whether it would be audible at your chair. If you want to 100% avoid that possibility, the Class D (and Alesis, etc) is your option. If you want to save $400, the Crown et al is.
> 
> cheers


Can you elaborate when you say whether or not the fan may kick on and if it would be audible at my chair ? Sorry I'm still new to this and still getting familiar with these terms and meanings.


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## bernch5 (May 31, 2013)

bernch5 said:


> Can you elaborate when you say whether or not the fan may kick on and if it would be audible at my chair ? Sorry I'm still new to this and still getting familiar with these terms and meanings.


Aj I just received approval from my good half that I could possibly use our best buy account for a possible amp and sub which then means I could spend a little more for both. So with that being said should I consider this option with Best Buy equipment and if so what would be my best options there?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

bernch5 said:


> Can you elaborate when you say whether or not the fan may kick on and if it would be audible at my chair ?


Unfortunately I don't know how to state that more clearly, or what you don't understand.



bernch5 said:


> Aj I just received approval from my good half that I could possibly use our best buy account for a possible amp and sub which then means I could spend a little more for both. So with that being said should I consider this option with Best Buy equipment and if so what would be my best options there?


I have no idea. What does BB sell that's both available to you and equivalent to the amps being discussed here? Other than Magnolia stuff which is probably $$$, didn't think BB sold separate amps at all.

cheers,


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

If you get the Yamaha P series amps you can stack up to 3 or 4 without any space in between them per Yamaha as long as the front and back are clear for air flow. I have been running them (p2500s, and P7000s) in this config with zero heat problems, and the fan has never turned on.


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