# question about setup



## Guest (Apr 10, 2007)

okay i just finished doing my car audio system and now want to put an audio system in my room.... ive been reading about receivers and home theater speakers for about 2 weeks.... now im kind of leaning towards an HK receiver ank some polk audio speakers.... not sure on sub woofer at all yet....
but the thing is i dont know what model to chose for the speakers... i want to get a left and right bookshelf speaker center speaker rear surround speakers, and a sub..... the thing is the reviews i have read seem to be biased and my budget for the whole project is around $2000.... so if any one can give advice on speaker models it would be aprecieated .... o and one more thing i know its not for this forum but if any one could give some info on some receivers as well because im not sure about the HK.... sorry if i confused any 1 :coocoo:


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

First of all, welcome to the forum. I hope you stick around for a while and let us know how your journey turns out!

As to your questions.. I don't have one for you. Saying what speakers are best is a little like saying which color is best. Some are gonna like red, some blue, some purple, some etc etc.. 

This is kind of my way of saying that if it were me, I'd actually go out and audition the speakers. I've even written up something that you may find helpful. Even more unhelpful is I've actually not heard Polk's in some time, so I can't even give you what my preferences would be in the Polk line.

Now, this is not to say that Polk speakers aren't good -- they are -- and that reading magazine reviews isn't a good start -- it is, but I'd recommend actually listening to them before buying. $2k is a lot of money (at least to me), so I'd want to be sure that I did a little investigation.

Now, as far as the receiver goes, my personal opinion (not shared by everyone) is that the audio differences between similarly priced receivers is negligible. I'd pick the receiver that has the features you're looking for, the remote you like, etc. I've had bad luck with HK in the past, which I'm sure is more a coincidence than anything, so I shy away from them now. If I were to go out and buy a new receiver, I might be tempted by some of the refurbed units that are available. Accessoriesforless sells Marantz receivers that are slightly older models, or refurbished at significant discounts. You can get refurbed Denon products here. Ecost is another place you can get refurbed Denon units. I'm sure there are other stores out there that offer the same kind of deals for HK, Yamaha, etc.

I'm sure I was little help..I just hope I didn't make you even more confused. :dumbcrazy: 

JCD


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

If you are looking for bookshelf speakers definetly look at the SVS site. Can't demo them locally, but they always get good reviews.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Hey Cheecho,

I've heard good things about the HK receivers, but never owned one. FWIW, I'm totally done with Sony, so I always recommend against that.

I'd also check out the SVS speakers, and probably pass on the Polks. I'd also suggest Paradigm, B&W 600 series, Magnepan MMGs (if you have the space) and PSB. There are lots more out there. Go out and listen, and don't forget to take your favorite music. The speaker buying link that JCD pointed you to has lots of good ideas on how to audition speakers, so check that out.

Don't get in a rush and spend some time to find something you like. Have fun and good luck.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*



Cheecho said:


> okay i just finished doing my car audio system and now want to put an audio system in my room....


Welcome to the Club !!!!:T :T 

I agree with JCD ... if you can, go to the store and try the speakers they have, some will also recommend you to get some from the stores that let you try them at home and return them if you don't like it ....:yes: :yes: 

Everybody is different, shop around, there's a lot of receivers, speakers, subs, etc. to choose from; in my case a have an old model Sony Receiver (STR DE895, is a 7.1 110W per channel) and I'm happy with that, my speakers are Infinity TSS750 (5 + sub) and I just got another sub (Velodyne VRP 1000) ....

With $2,000.00 you have a lot of choices ..... just look around until you find what you like :yes: :yes:

It will be a good idea to give information about your room (lay out, measures, will you use this to watch movies only, etc.) ... that will help everybody to give you some suggestions :bigsmile: :bigsmile:


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

wow this is a great community.... bunch of helpful answers.... and the thing is i went to circuit city today and they had none of the demo speakers on..... gahhhhh.... anyways i was thinking about getting a denon receiver as well but dunno how ill get to listen to them...... and as for the Marantz receivers i've never heard of the brand .... o and ill take pics of my room so you guys can get an idea of they layout... and the system is mainly for music...im going to hook the sound card of my pc up to one of inputs of the receiver but i need surround sound for the xbox 360... and occasional movies.... and if some one can guide me how much should i spend on the reciever if this is all im looking for??? cant wait to start my system :raped:


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Hey Cheecho,

Welcome to the Shack; there are a lot of helpful people around here!

Circuit City isn't a great place to audition speakers. They usually have a bunch of loud stuff on, things are haphazardly located, and the sales drones are just that: drones ( all right, to be fair, I'm sure there are some good drones out there on occasion ). But see how you went in and you can't even check out something you want to purchase. A big step up from there is Best Buy's Magnolia Hi-Fi/HT centers. They're not the best, but they have a bigger selection of nicer stuff. You can go in there and start to get a feel for what's out there. IIRC, they have Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer receivers ( and perhaps others ). For speakers, they have Martin Logan, Vienna Acoustics, Mirage, Klipsch, Definitive Technology and probably others. If you check out those speakers ( even outside of your budget ), you will get a flavor for what the range in speaker sounds/styles can be -- that group includes electrostatics, direct radiating, bipolar and horns: a wide variety in speaker technologies and philosophies. Some like Brand A and some like Brand B; it's all up to the individual taste.

As far as receiver price, there is a pretty big range out there. If I were going to buy a receiver today, I would really look at the HK 635 at about $600. I've heard good things about the power section ( amplifier ) of the HK, though I've never owned one. I would also consider Denon and Marantz in that price range ( $500-$600 ). I've had a Denon and it treated me well power-wise, as well as feature-wise.
I would probably steer away from Yamaha, as they only allow a fixed crossover point ( can't recall if it's 80 or 90 Hz ), and that further implies that that crossover point is applied to all channels in the system ( i.e., fronts, center, rears are all crossed over at the same frequency, and you can't change it ). With today's super-flexible receivers and processors, that fact alone is enough to make me not even consider Yamaha, regardless of the rest of the package. Oh, be sure that whatever receiver you buy has preamp outputs so that you can add on a power amp in the future if you need to.

If you're going for mainly music and occasional movies and Xbox, I might consider starting with a 2.0 or 2.1 system. That is, forget about the center and surrounds for now. That will allow you to get into a much better main speaker, and that's your critical point for music listening. Depending on your movie requirements, you may also be able to get away without a center channel at all -- if you are able to control where you sit ( i.e., in the center "sweet spot" position ), you can do a "phantom center" mode where all center channel information is pushed to your mains. If you ( or others ) will regularly be out of the center spot, it would be better to have a center channel, and one that matches your mains. I've also found that, if you're not terribly critical about movie listening, it's easy to "save a little" on rears.

Anyway, back to the original point -- if you're mainly interested in music, go with two mains for now, perhaps with a sub ( depending on the mains -- how badly they need it ).

Here are some links:

SVS SCS-01 speakers (<$500/pr):
http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-scs01.cfm

Vandersteen 2Ce Signature ($1500/pr):
http://www.vandersteen.com/pages/2Celit2.html

Magnepan MMG speaker ($550/pr):
http://www.magnepan.com/model_MMG

B&W 603 speaker (~$1,000/pr)
http://www.bwspeakers.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/products.models/label/Model DM603 S3

Outlaw Audio RR2150 Receiver (stereo only, but nice, $650):
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

If I were going to buy a sub today, I would probably just do an SVS. They just have a great following and such well-respected customer service. All the subs I've ever seen in CC/BB are not gonna cut it for me (I'm sure there are some good ones out there). I heard a Velodyne 18" that was nice, but it was very expensive. If you are so inclined and have the time, energy and patience, I would recommend a DIY sub. There are many around here that will blow away most commercial subs, and for a fraction of the cost.

Oh, you asked if you need anything else. Do you already have a source like a CD or DVD player? 

I also noted that you are going to hook up your PC to your system. Will you be using a digital connection? If not, you'll want to consider it, but it can wait for a while. If you're handy with a PC, it won't be difficult.

That's it for now!


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*



> I would probably steer away from Yamaha, as they only allow a fixed crossover point ( can't recall if it's 80 or 90 Hz ), and that further implies that that crossover point is applied to all channels in the system ( i.e., fronts, center, rears are all crossed over at the same frequency, and you can't change it ).


The fixed crossover point applies only to lower end Yamaha recievers, and it is 90 Hz. The majority of Yamaha recievers do have an variable crossover point, however, it is global and affects all channels.
Even as a Yamaha proponent I would definetly recommend looking into all options as variable crossover for each speaker channel is an attractive plus.



> Oh, be sure that whatever receiver you buy has preamp outputs so that you can add on a power amp in the future if you need to.


Unquestionably a critical feature!!!


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

ahhh thanks you made a good point about just getting the two main speakers and the sub for now if i am mainly interested in music... and the way im hooking up the sound from the pc to the receiver is with this http://www.xitel.com/USA/prod_hflpc.htm.... o and i need bookshelf speakers because of the lack of space so i dont think i can get those floor speakers.... so im thinking of going with the svs bookshelf speakers what would u recommend the size sub i get for the room the 12".... and im thinking about going with a refurbished maratz.....or denon.... im prolly gonna check out sound quest today and hear some of the setups they have?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Hi again,

I had a look at the xitel product. Looks like it's an external USB DAC that will then send an 2-ch analog signal to your receiver. Not a bad solution. The only concerns I'd have are 1) is the DAC in that thing better or worse than the DAC in your receiver? and 2) it doesn't appear to be able to support 5.1 digital output. #1 may only be of concern if you can hear a difference from your receiver's DAC and the xitel DAC. #2 may only be of concern if you wanted to take advantage of any surround stuff in movies and/or games from your PC.

If you haven't already bought the xitel thing, you can get an optical output PCI interface sound card on ebay for $10. I think there are also USB-based optical out external devices as well, but I've never played with one.

If you're just using the xitel for casual 2-ch listening, you will be 100% fine with it

Yeah, you may be able to buy B&Ws as singles, but I'm sure they'll sell you two of 'em. :bigsmile: I believe the $1000 price is for the pair ($2k for a pair of 603s is too much; at that price, you're definitely up into the 700 series).


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

otto i need bookshelf speakers and it appeared to me that most of the speakers you posed were floor speakers.... and as for the sub i decided im going to go with the SVS one but im not sure on which model and size....


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

I have been meaning to ask the question and this is perhaps not the correct place but I believe both Cheecho and I would benefit from the answer. What makes a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) good or bad? I have always found that digital source material sounds better when it is left digital for as long as possible. Hence I always leave everything digital and let the recievers DAC handle the data. Why would an outboard DAC be better?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*



supervsl said:


> I have been meaning to ask the question and this is perhaps not the correct place but I believe both Cheecho and I would benefit from the answer. What makes a DAC (Digital to Analog Converter) good or bad? I have always found that digital source material sounds better when it is left digital for as long as possible. Hence I always leave everything digital and let the recievers DAC handle the data. Why would an outboard DAC be better?


Hi Nick,

Good question, and one I'd like to see discussed. You're right in not wanting to hijack Cheecho's thread :bigsmile:... Start up a new thread in either the 2-ch forum or the Receivers|Processors forum and let's see what happens! :T


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

DONE!
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/receivers-amps-processors/4210-dac-not-dac-question.html


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Front Channel Speakers - Infinity Primus P362 $452/pair
Center Channel Speaker - Infinity Primus PC350 $220
Surround Speakers - Infinity Primus P162 $220/pair
Subwoofer - Infinity PS212 $370
Speaker Total - $1262 or $1110 from Crutchfield with free subwoofer offer
If you want all bookshelf speakers just get 4 P162s and drop the P362s.

DVD Universal Player - Oppo DV-970HD $150 or Oppo DV-981HD $230

Home Theater Receiver - Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV $640

TOTAL - $1900 or $1980

Descriptions of the previous Infinity Primus line:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/infinity-primus-speakers-10-2003.html
http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/605infinity/
http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/404infinity/
Bob Reina said of the Primus 150 "...it sounded like a $1000/pair speaker." 

Oppo DV-970HD reviews:
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv970hd/dv970hd_review.html

Oppo DV-981HD reviews:
http://www.oppodigital.com/dv981hd/dv981hd_review.html

Some discussion on the Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=729858


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*



Cheecho said:


> otto i need bookshelf speakers and it appeared to me that most of the speakers you posed were floor speakers.... and as for the sub i decided im going to go with the SVS one but im not sure on which model and size....


Hey there,

I think the SVS sub will be a good one. As to floor standers, ooops! The SVS package is a bookshelf, and I like the look of them -- the D'Appolito array. I once heard a pair of Dunlavys that looked very similar (yeah, looks the same is different that sounds the same!) and they were astounding.

B&W has the 602, I don't think Vandersteen has anything, Martin Logan probably not, DT not much...

Check Outlaw, Paradigm, PSB, etc. I've not heard the Inifinitys that were recommended, but I've heard that they are a good bang for the buck! Lots out there!


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

I use the Infinitys in my set up:

Receiver: Yamaha RX-V 650
Front: Infinity Primus 250
Center: Infinity Primus C25
Surround: Infinity Primus 150
Rear: Infinity Primus 140
Sub: (2) Infinity PS8

I love the speakers, but there is a noticible difference between the 250 and the 150, floorstanding vs. bookshelf, when demoed at full range. The only time I notice the difference is when I am listening to my turn table and don't want the reciever digitizing the signal for crossover/subwoofer use. If you don't plan on using the speakers in this fashion then I highly recommend them when paired with a subwoofer. Even with my very lame 8" subs they sound very good. I would avoid the Infinity subs, I have not been impressed with any of the PS series 8, 10 or 12 inch models. The sub is very vanilla when compared with other manufacturers. I think you are on the right track with the SVS sub.
The newer 162, 152, 142 models were just released and you can still find the older 160, 150, 140 series at serious discount if you look hard enough. The only difference is asthetic. That could free up your budget for a kick butt sub.
I would recommend splitting your budget 70/30, speakers/hardware. You will definetly get more for your money with speakers than with a reciever.


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

holy freak just got back from sound quest...... i heard some B&W 600 series bookshelf speakers and all i gotta say is WOW...... the only thing they were 225ea for the DM601 S3 and 300 ea for the DM602 S3.... now if i buy the pair for 600 that leaves me with 1400... if i get a nice denon refurbished thats about 500... down to 900 dollars.... and the sub that im going to prolly go with is about 600.... which leaves me with 300.... holy moly i feel a whole in my wallet....


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

ooo one more question is the deal for the B&W speakers good price cuz i dunno the MSRP on them thanks


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Yeah, I think the price for the 602 is about 600/pr (MSRP). Where is Soundquest? El Paso? If so, I bought a pair of 602s there many, many years ago. 

You might want to check audiogon.com for used stuff. B&W 602s are pretty easy to come by, and you could save a lot of $$$. I've made a few purchases there myself, and have never been burned. Use Paypal and you should be safe...

Glad you liked them! Remember, before you bite on the B&W, take this weekend to shop around (or give it a few weeks). There are a lot of speakers out there...


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## Guest (Apr 11, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

Holy vibrating woofers Batman, I think he liked those B&Ws:bigsmile:


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## Guest (Apr 12, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

yah otto its in el paso just wasnt sure if those B&W were for rape prices.... and they had some paradigms... but i havnt listened to them yet ill prolly go over there this weekend and check em out


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## Rodny Alvarez (Apr 25, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Hey Cheecho!!!.welcome to the shack:T 

Don't forget the cables and wires:spend: !!!!:bigsmile:


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

hey otto i went to sound quest again today and listened to the paradigm speakers i actually thought these sounded nicer than the B&W speakers... and it was cheaper.... the guy told me that the model they were selling are 20% off because they wanted to get rid of them cuz of a newer line... but he told me i would pay $399 for a pair that looked like this i forgot to get the model number down but im sure they were these with the 7" driver








do you think this is a good deal on the speakers ?? o and also since the only pair they had left was the display id have to take those


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Hey Cheecho,

I'm not terribly familiar with the current Paradigm lineup, but those look like Studio 20s from the little research I just did on the web. I wasn't clear on pricing for that model (maybe something like $650 to $900?). In that case, $399 for the pair for demos isn't a bad price. I've bought demo stuff before, and never had a problem. Just make sure they sound good at all volumes, and that you're OK with any potential scratches. 

Did you have a chance to go back and forth between the Paradigms and the B&Ws? In the same room and same electronics? It can be difficult to tell all the nuances in different listening sessions. But I think you're starting to get the feel for it! 

If you like 'em, and you like the price, I would definitely not discourage you from getting them; they should be very fine speakers for years to come!


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

yah they were hooked up to the same reciever but im not so sure that those go for around 900 a pair cuz they were only 20 percent off


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Yeah, 20% off would put the original price at about $500. Either way, I think they're good speakers, and if you like them, and there's nothing wrong with them (since they're demos), then I'd say that's not a bad price.

Depending on how you feel about wheeling-and-dealing (I'm not very good at it myself), you may want to ask for more of a discount. I would imagine that a clearance for a new line would already get you 20% off. The fact that they're demos on top of "last years model" might bring the price down more. Either way, the $399 price isn't bad...

If you like 'em, and you're happy with the amount of shopping you've done, then go for it. You might call them and find out the exact model and then google around for pricing. My guess is that $399 isn't a bad deal.


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## Guest (Apr 13, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

yah otto the only thing is im not sure on the exact model... and the thing is they are all 20% off and he said he would give me the two bookshelf 7"drive speakers for 399 which was 20% off the original price of 500.... the thing that gets me is that they should even discount it more since they were displays and were used...AND thanks a lot u been really helpfull im prolly going to purchase these with a center speaker for 575 total.... all i need now is a receiver :hissyfit:


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

o and btw the model for the speakers are Paradigm Monitor 3 v2


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Cheecho, have you even listened to the Infinity Primus speakers? I think you should give them a chance. If you are looking for value, they are the real deal.

$399 for a pair of Paradigm Monitor 3 v2s is no deal. You can get them new for that or less at several places.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: question about steup*

Yeah, knowing that it's the Monitor 3 v2, $400 isn't really a good deal at all. $300 would be a better deal... I think you have the Studio 20 v4 in the picture, but that's no problem.

You might want to continue shopping. I had to give up after a while, too, but it's fun during the process. I haven't heard anything bad about the Infinity that jackfish recommended. At $160/pr, I'm tempted to buy them just to see how they sound! I think the 6.5" two-way would be comparable to the speakers you've been looking at. That would be the P162, although I see on the Infinity site that they also a list a "Primus 160" with the exact same specs...

Current recommendation: keep shopping.

What other shops are in El Paso?


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## Guest (Apr 14, 2007)

*Re: question about steup*

none at all i think i might have to drive to las cruses in order to check out some other speakers..... and i havnt heard those infinity primus yet but havnt bumped into them yet either.... ill let you guys know how it goes when i head over to las cruses tomorrow .... again really apreaciate the help cuz i was def thinking about picking up those paradigims because to me they sounded better then the B&W 600 series :-[


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2007)

oooo i picked up some speakers today at las cruses i fell in love with some paridigms and for the price i thought it was a must buy


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

What are you going to drive them with? Amp/receiver? Transport/source?


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## Guest (Apr 15, 2007)

right now they are just sitting here in my room .... i think im going to buy a receiver the only thing is i dunno what one to get and stuff thats why im going to wait and see whats out there you know.... what do u recommend i use to drive the speakers with????


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Cool, Cheecho! I lived in Las Cruces many years ago. I don't remember any audio shops there back then...

So what'd you get?


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Well you started this thread suggesting you were looking at a 5.1 system. The Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV for around $650 has been getting some good buzz. The Pioneer Elite series of receivers are Pioneer's top of the line, full featured receivers. The VSX-81TXV should have enough power to drive those Paradigms. Which model Paradigms are they? That would help in detemining a suitable subwoofer for you.

Other receivers to consider:
Denon AVR-2807 $850
Sony STR-DG1000 $700
Marantz SR5001 $600
Yamaha HTR6090BL $650

For a DVD player that will also play CDs, SACDs and DVD-As you can't go wrong with the Oppo DV-981HD for $230.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2007)

i got some of the focus model i know their old... i was comparing em to the monitor 3's and the 650$ studio speakers and the only difference i heard in them was bass... so im hoping i can get that from my sub.... o and i got them for 160


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Now if you could just find the Paradigm CC 170 center, ADP 170 dipole surrounds and PDR 12 subwoofer you would have a highly praised speaker system.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Yeah, what jackfish said. A little patience and you should be able to find those matching speakers. Nice price on the speakers; your budget can certainly take you further now!

As for receivers, there's been a bunch thrown through this thread, so just look back a bit. I think supervsl set me straight on the crossover points allowed in the Yamaha, but I still don't like the fact that they apply a singly crossover point for all speakers, even if their higher end receivers allow you to select it. That's just lame.

But check out the others. I'm sure any of them would work nicely for you.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Paradigm ADP 170s in ebay.
Paradigm PDR 12 on ebay.
A Paradigm CC170 just sold for $140 on AudiogoN.


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2007)

you think i will be able to trust ebay and audiogon??? and how much should i expect to pay for these matching speakers???


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## Guest (Apr 16, 2007)

hey guys i found the center speaker at soundquest for 175 new.... and the rears he said he has the 190's for 350 a pair :O


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

I would do a little more research on dipoles to make sure for your situation another pair of Focus or Mini-Monitors might not work as well for surrounds. I have purchased many items off of ebay and a couple off AudiogoN. The trick is to ask as many questions as possible. If you already know you want the product then it is just a matter of them representing the item truthfully. Also check seller feedback. If they don't represent the item truthfully you have recourse, like cancelling your payment.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

That's correct about eBay and AudiogoN. I always use PayPal with an account connected to a real credit card rather than a debit card. I've never had any trouble, the items have always been good, etc.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2007)

yah just a little worried about getting damaged speakers n stuff.... o and do you guys think 175 for that center speaker is good the Paradigm CC170


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Why not? You are half way there. Now for those surrounds and the subwoofer.onder:


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Cheecho said:


> yah just a little worried about getting damaged speakers n stuff.... o and do you guys think 175 for that center speaker is good the Paradigm CC170


Be sure to get insurance on the shipping. I've had a variety of things broken courtesy of UPS. I avoid them when possible. The sender must also pack properly. If the packing is poor, UPS and any other shipper may have a cause to NOT pay for damage.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2007)

ahhh thanks otto.... that clears up things cuz i think i need to get the surrounds from audiogon ..... and i wish i was half way there im still missing the most important thing the reciever imma go look at some at circuit city on friday they had some denon models....


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Excellent! 

Here are some links to receivers on AudiogoN:

I've heard good things about the Panasonic XR55:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1180978717

Here's something. Not sure how people feel about Integra (Onkyo, right?):
http://www.http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1180719046.com

A Pioneer Elite VSX-29Tx:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1180246605

I think you would be fine with 5.1 for the time being. Many of us have "only" 5.1. I think those receivers are all pretty good, and they are at good prices. Any of those (and various others just like them) would give you exactly what you need for as long as you need.

I, personally, don't have any trouble buying stuff from AudiogoN, and I feel better there than at eBay (I'm sure there are scammers and losers at AudiogoN as well, but I just feel like people there care about their stuff more than the average guy on eBay). I have purchased center and main speakers there as well as a 5-channel amp. No problems. There's plenty of opportunity to talk back and forth with the seller. I have also talked with them on the phone prior to buying. Ultimately, it's up to you if you feel comfortable buying used over the web, but I've had success with it.


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## Guest (Apr 17, 2007)

hey otto was just wondering if this is a good reciever???? http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Deno...sem/rpsm/oid/159486/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

or if i should get a better one? thanks


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

I think that Denon would serve you well for many years. I used a Denon for many years, and still use it for basement duty.


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2007)

hey guys just letting you know i bought a receiver Denon AVR-987 and i gotta say im very satisfied with it...... ..... now just to figure out the best way to put the EQ settings


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Good one, Cheecho. That will serve you well. Let us know about setup. I bet there's a ton of stuff in there! I may not be able to help too much with the Denon particulars, but there are others around here that probably can...


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## Guest (Apr 19, 2007)

Have you made a decision on a subwoofer?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Cheecho said:


> hey guys just letting you know i bought a receiver Denon AVR-987 and i gotta say im very satisfied with it...... ..... now just to figure out the best way to put the EQ settings


Sorry I'm late ... yesterday I saw the Denon AVR 487 at Costco (there's one in El Paso) for $499.00 this includes the 5.1 Receiver + DVD Player + 5 speakers and a Sub (100watts I think) :duh: :duh:


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Been a while since I've been back here, but it looks like you've made some great progress! I think you've made some great purchases -- I really like the Paradigm line. I think they're a great value (I do own some after all).

Have you bought your surrounds yet? 

Also, for sub, I'd seriously recommend a SVS or Hsu sub. There is no greater value for subwoofers than one of those two. Since SVS is a sponsor here, I'd recommend posting something on their sub-board about you room, speakers, listening habits, etc and they'll give you an honest appraisal of what they think would be the best sub for you. They also have some of the best customer support out there. Period. Hsu is probably the same, I just haven't had any direct dealings with them.

Also, there is one thing definitely missing.. pictures. addle: 

JCD


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2007)

yah i was actually thinking about going with an SVS subwoofer.... but the thing is im not gonna buy some speakers for a while something came up and i needa save some cash so i prolly wont add any speakers for about a month or so :'(... what im missing is center surround speakers and subwoofer.... but in one month ill have atleast one of them knocked out for sure ... o and about the picutures i needa find the **** usb chord for my camera hahaha


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## khellandros66 (Jun 7, 2006)

:T 

Good choices man Paradigm/Denon outta be awesome.

Toshiba HD-A2/HDTV/CC170/ADPs/SVS PB12-NSD2 would make a great complete rig :yes: 

~Bobby


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## Guest (Apr 20, 2007)

GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! no one buy the XITEL product i purchased as a solution to hook up your pc to the receiver..... they sound was coming out weak for some reason so i hooked up my ipod to the same channel VCR-1 with the same headphone connection used from xitel and the bass hits much better and vocals are much clearer.... so now i needa look for a better solution.... any suggestions???


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Cheecho said:


> GAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH!!!! no one buy the XITEL product i purchased as a solution to hook up your pc to the receiver..... they sound was coming out weak for some reason so i hooked up my ipod to the same channel VCR-1 with the same headphone connection used from xitel and the bass hits much better and vocals are much clearer.... so now i needa look for a better solution.... any suggestions???


To hook a PC to a receiver, you definitely want to use a digital connection. Look for any sound card that has S/PDIF out. Some may only reference it as an optical out. I think I found a C-Media on eBay for $10 from seller madbow (IIRC). I have also used a Sounblaster Live 5.1 card. The problem with that was that it would not allow me to send analog at the same time, which is an important feature for me.

Forget sending analog out from the PC. Digital is the only way to go, and your Denon's DACs will be better than most soundcard DACs unless you look for a high-end soundcard, which, for this case, would be a waste of money (IMHO).


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## Guest (Apr 21, 2007)

hey otto,

once again thanks for the help but im having a problem narrowing them down.... can you skim this page for me and tell me which soundcard i should buy???
http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category.aspx?Category=36&name=Sound-Cards-MIDI-Devices


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Cheecho said:


> hey otto,
> 
> once again thanks for the help but im having a problem narrowing them down.... can you skim this page for me and tell me which soundcard i should buy???
> http://www.newegg.com/Store/Category.aspx?Category=36&name=Sound-Cards-MIDI-Devices


Hey Cheecho,

I looked at some of those, and some have a digital out, but I think they're too expensive!

I like the look of something cheap like this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Cobra-AW-850-So...oryZ3701QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think something like this would work:

http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-2-0-Sound-C...oryZ3701QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I think this is the same as one I have (which works fine):

http://cgi.ebay.com/SOUND-BLASTER-L...oryZ3701QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Anything that will support a digital signal output. 

Also, what's your budget? If you don't mind spending $100+, I'm sure there's something for you on the newegg page.

Here are a couple things to consider:

Do you care about playing analog and digital out at the same time? I do, because my "Zone 2" needs an analog input regardless of what digital inputs I'm using. If you are only going to listen to one thing at a time, you won't care about analog and digital simultaneous playback. I found that the SB Live! 5.1 would NOT play both at the same time. I only use it for its MIDI interface.

Do you care about a MIDI interface? If yes, you may want to find a sound card like the SB Live! 5.1 (assuming you don't care about analog & digital simultaneously). I'm considering going to a USB MIDI interface, so I don't have to leave that SB Live! card in my machine (I'm short on PCI slots). You could do the same with regards to MIDI in the future -- buy a USB MIDI device when you need it. The only thing I use it for is controlling the BFD.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2007)

thanks a lot otto.... but hey i was wondering if u can help me with a problem i ran into today.... i have the xbox hooked up to dvd with the composite cables as the input i have composite cables going from out the reciever and to the television..... well lately i set my the xbox to 1080p and sometimes when im playing a game ill loose signal for a second or two and gain signal back but it is only the video signal.... any ideas as to why?


this is the television it is hooked up to

http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/prod...->PRODUCTS&cm_ite=1 PRODUCT&cm_keycode=388565


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hey Cheecho,

So let me make sure I understand. You are going from your Xbox to your new Denon receiver input using a composite cable. You are using the DVD input on the Denon. From the Denon, you are going composite out to the 32" Polaroid TV. Note that the composite cable is a single cable, frequently with a yellow indicator on it. 

First, is that the best connection you have from the Xbox? I don't have any experience with the Xbox, so I'm not sure of its outputs. But I bet it has S-video, which would clearly be a step up. I'd use that if the Xbox supports. Without looking at the manuals, I'm 99.99999% sure that both the Denon and your TV support S-video. If the Xbox has component or DVI/HDMI, that's even better (assuming receiver and TV support it as well).

Anyway, if my first paragraph is correct, that you are using a single composite cable from Xbox to receiver and from receiver to TV, there are two things I would consider. First, the connections -- make sure they are all clean and tight. Rotate the plug within the jack, and if it feels loose, put some pressure on the outside ring of the RCA plug to that it fits more snugly in the hole. Or find a different cable. Which brings me to the "other thing" -- you could have a bad cable. Either of those cables you are using could be defective. Depending on how long it takes to repeat the problem, you could swap one or both with other cables.

If new cables still fail, and the connections are good, I would start looking at the jacks of the Xbox, receiver and TV. Once everything's connected and working, jiggle the cables in the sockets a little. Not enough to damage anything, just enough to make sure that it's solid all the way around. 

Try those things and see if it goes away. If not, let us know, and we'll keep working it.


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## Guest (Apr 24, 2007)

sorry otto im using component dont know why i said composite but is it possible that 1080p is to strong for the tv... because i set the xbox settings to 1080i and the video never lost signal again.....? cuz i checked the specs of the tv and this is what i saw 

Component inputs: 2, Supports 480i/480p/720p/1080i.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi Cheecho,

I'm not very expert in TV stuff, and all the formats and such. But if your TV wants to see a 1080i signal, then I think you're on the right track to set the Xbox to set its output to be the same as the TV input. If everything looks good, then you're set to go!


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## Guest (Apr 26, 2007)

yah everything is working wonderful... just needa fix the pc to receiver problem..... and i will take pictures tomorrow and post im to lazy right now school is draining me all my energy


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2007)

guys today i was listening to my xbox through the receiver and noticed hiss was coming from the speakers and i changed it to another channel same thing can any 1 help me out?????


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## Guest (Apr 27, 2007)

i did some more inspection and found out the hiss is coming from the tweeters and it happens when i raise the volume to around -20db when you put ur ear to the speaker... my question is ...is background hiss normal at certain volume levels..... do you guys think its the settings on my receiver ..... my sofa is very close to speakers about 5 feet away max and the only time i can hear the hiss strong is when i exceed +7 db.... but im not playing any music or anything so is that normal???


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hey man,

Are you using digital or analog inputs? Is it in both speakers or just one? Does it happen on all inputs? Is there anything playing at the same time? Does it get louder as you increase volume, or just stay steady once you get to -20 dB. What if you use a device other than the Xbox?


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## Guest (Apr 28, 2007)

hey otto..... it was for all channels and as i increased volume the hiss got louder.... now i was just messing around with the EQ option and set the Room EQ option to OFF....and the hiss disapeared i put it back on manual and the hiss returned..... so im thinking my manual eq settings are maybe to high?????? i have the low frequencies around 1 db the mid frequencies around -2 db and the high frequencies at 5-6 db.... 6 db is the max on the eq settings.....


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## khellandros66 (Jun 7, 2006)

TJ

The EQ acts as a sort of compression, if I ever tweak the EQ its fora specific recording (music mostly) and I only bump the Bass or Treble by about 1-2dB at most +6dB is more then doubling thevolume above 8-10khz so only slightly audible hiss will become very much audible and could damage the speakers if driven to hard.

~Bobby


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Cheecho said:


> hey otto..... it was for all channels and as i increased volume the hiss got louder.... now i was just messing around with the EQ option and set the Room EQ option to OFF....and the hiss disapeared i put it back on manual and the hiss returned..... so im thinking my manual eq settings are maybe to high?????? i have the low frequencies around 1 db the mid frequencies around -2 db and the high frequencies at 5-6 db.... 6 db is the max on the eq settings.....


Hey Cheecho,

Sounds like you've boosted the high frequencies enough, by using your treble gain, so that you can hear the natural noise floor of your system. I would imagine that it's only audible when it's turned up kinda loud, but there's nothing else playing through the system. 

I usually leave all those controls at 0, but it's a personal preference. You might also turn down a little. Either way, I think it's somewhat normal at those levels. Sitting here in my office, if I turn up my receiver half way, and treble boost to max, I can hear hiss from my chair as well.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

khellandros66 said:


> The EQ acts as a sort of compression


No it doesn't. It acts as a straight filter -- cut or gain will be applied, in the appropriate frequency range, as designed by the engineers. Compression?



> so only slightly audible hiss will become very much audible and could damage the speakers if driven to hard.


I agree that it will increase your hiss to be audible, of course. 

But I wouldn't worry about damaging your speakers from that alone. Overall volume will have to be extremely loud for damage to occur. Even at very loud levels, I wouldn't hesitate to crank the treble gain to max, if I wanted. I'd be more worried about overall levels of distortion coming from the amp and/or speakers. 

Bottom line is that if it sounds bad -- distorted, muddy, etc. -- then it's probably too loud, and you should turn down for fear of damaging your speakers, your ears, or, less likely, your receiver. 

Good luck!


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## Guest (Apr 30, 2007)

ahhh alright i guess everything is working normal i still cant find the usb for my camera but once i fund it ill post pics ASAP


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## Guest (Jun 2, 2007)

i got the center speaker guys Paradigm CC170


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