# basementdweller's "i'm subbin' it all out" basement theatre build thread



## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

It's finally time, I get to add a build thread to the inspirational threads here I have be watching for years. 

My wife and I, and our two young children have lived in our new construction home for 5 years and the 1780 sq ft basement is ready to be finished. I greatly lack any experience in construction, wiring, etc. and while I have toyed for years with the idea of tackling this myself I finally have thought better of it, so welcome to my "subbin' it out" build. The fun has already started but framing starts (and likely completes!) the first week in January 2012 so this is really happening to our great excitement. The goal is to end up with 1320 sq ft of livable space including a large living room, full bath with tub/shower, an oversized fitness / multipurpose room, and a big open area complete with projection home theatre and wet bar. All this and a couple of unfinished storage areas. 

I am acting as the GC on this project and have been planning the last 4-6 months and have spent the last two months having repairs and improvements made in preparation for the build. 

Step 1 was waterproofing. The basement has been remarkably dry for the 5 years it has existed but did have numerous settling cracks in the poured concrete walls, all of which formed in the first year. A couple got wet in the worst rains and those were injected and fixed with either epoxy or high pressure foam by pros. I had the few cracks that NEVER got wet injected in the same way about 2 months ago as insurance. the basement has stayed totally dry in heavy rains since.

Step 2 was checking for radon and finding our levels were a 5.2 which is above the goverment recommended max of 4.0 and their suggested 2.0 so I had a active radon mitigation system installed which uses a 4 inch PVC pipe through the foundation to actively suck the air below the foundation with an outdoor fan and release it above our roof line. The results have been great with radon levels below 0.5 which is average outdoor levels. 

Step 3 was replacing 130+ ft of poorly installed PVC pipes to our two high efficiency furnaces. The builders HVAC guys misglued nearly every joint and they all dripped condensation water when the furnaces ran. During the warranty year the builder attempted to fix whichever joint was leaking that day by cutting it out or rubbing more glue on it but fixing one just made the next joint leak. Finally the warranty was up, the HVAC installer was out of business and the whole thing looked more like an erector set that would have tons of soffits so I had a new company come in and replace the whole thing and run the lines in a far more thoughtful and efficient manner to help avoid unneccessary soffits and lowered ceilings. I have a 9 ft basement and want ceiling height wherever I can get it and I plan all drywall ceilings so I can't afford not to trust what is above the walls.

Step 4 was getting a building permit. I have to be honest a bunch of friends had great basements without pulling a permit but I am not an expert on building and I want to sleep at night that what has been done is safe so I am following the law. It's going to cost more and I fully expect this to run into more snags because of pulling a permit but for me it was the only good choice. I have had it approved and have had the preconstruction meeting and am cleared for construction. 

The final step prior to framing is happening two days after Christmas. I am getting my builders mockery of an attempt at putting fiberglass insulation in my rim joists (misfitted to a comical degree) replaced with 3 inches of closed cell spray foam. It is a great choice I hope to prevent all chance of air infiltration (my fiberglass is dirty from dust getting in through tiny gaps in the rim joist plus pipe penetrations, not to mention the spiders) plus prevent condensation forming on the cold sill from warm basement air... Not to mention R20+ insulation values. 

Here is the floor plan ... 










In my next long winded post (coming in the next few minutes) I'll post the first pictures of what will be the theatre area along with a couple of important questions I hope you can answer before I start framing.


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

if the previous picture didn't make it clear, the "family room" is where the theatre is going and a 120" or so screen will be on the wall that divides the room from the long storage area. 

all right... my first big question and problem. where should the av cabinet go? i want a built in wall av cabinet and already have a set of rails and two blanks to help frame it but the actual placement is a more difficult question. IMHO the best ascetically pleasing location would be directly behind the main seating area (likely 2 rows) which is the wall of the utility room, the wall directly to the left of the HVAC area in my floorplan. The location is great in the sense that the equipment would easily be accessed from behind in the utility room, heat wouldn't be an issue, and the central basement location would make wire runs to everything short, including flat panels in the living room and fitness room besides the main theatre. The problem is all sound.

The two furnaces have very, very loud blowers. I intend to insulate the utility room with 5/8 drywall, roxul insulation, and a solid core door but I am afraid cutting a big hole in the wall for the av cabinet wastes every bit of that effort, in particular because where I would want it is right behind the seating area for the theatre. Option number 2 would be to put the av cabinet in either the wall facing the hallway or the wall facing the living room which still would spread sound I assume but be farther from the seating area. Finally I could put it in what I have listed as the closet near the bathroom, it fixes the sound issue but now is not nearly as centrally located and more and more removes the av cabinet from view, something frankly I want to be a show piece. 

Any thoughts on how bad I will leak sound from an otherwise deadened wall that has an av rack? Will having fillers, blanks, and custom cut surrounds in the av cabinet help at all? 

Thanks...


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

Here is the basement standing at the last row of theatre seating looking toward where the screen wall will be, 5 1/2' from the rear concrete wall.










Here is the same location, back row, but looking toward bar area.










Here is standing at the screen location looking back towards the seating area.










Finally here is a close of the two furnaces that will be a sound issue, the wall of the utility room will be 3' in front of them.


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

To just a bit further flesh out my ideas for the theatre space, It is 20 ft. deep from screen to rear wall but obviously very, very open to the bar area. Essentially it is one huge room with 2/3rds devoted to the theatre area and 1/3 to the bar with the divider being the single column. I totally acknowledge the huge downsides to the sound because of this open situation and that the area I have listed as a fitness room would make a better dedicated theatre space, but for my wife and kids having a big open area we all share is the way to go.

That said I don't really want it to feel like a family room so I intend a stage in front of the screen, and a riser for 2 rows of seating. I likely will go with one row of theatre seating and one row of couch seating. While it looks like I have a great setup for a false wall the reality is I need that storage space in back of the screen wall so I anticipate a fixed screen with either in wall, on wall, or floor standing towers I haven't yet decided. The rear speakers area a sticky issue. I think I will likely have a 5.1 system vs. 7.1 and the rear speakers will either need to be in ceiling which is a big concern I would like opinions on, or on a ceiling extension tube to at least point them forward. A Onkyo TX-NR809 will power an Epson 5100 projector most likely for the setup, I haven't decided yet on much regarding a screen. I likely can get away with having a dark grey or very dark brown wall and non-white but also not black ceiling so it is about compromise for this shared space.

To give you all a timeline on how fast I hope this all goes, I hope from framing to completion of the entire basement is 4-6 months. Should be fun and quick.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

First off welcome to the wonderful world of HT madness - you are going to love it! That is a really great space you have to work with! 

As far as the AV closet goes, I have read a few build threads where people who have made the closet so that they could display the gear wished they would have located where it would not distract from movie viewing. That said, IMO I would do a location behind your seating or at the very least to the side.

Just a thought - move the HVAC wall closer than 3', do DD / GG to isolate the blower noise, and create a "false" wall where you were currently planning the HVAC wall. You could recess an area of that wall to allow you to put shelving in to "display" the gear, put an access door to that area on the straight side of that area to allow you to get behind the gear as needed. You could even make an area to place a sub back there if you ever wanted to do 2 subs. Sorry - not completely thought out but just tossing an idea out there.....


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

Well the AV closet is definitely going behind the seating. Sorry if I wasn't clear in the floor plan but the area marked "FAMILY ROOM" is the theatre and the wall 5 1/2 ft out with storage behind is the screen wall. That places the center of the basement utility area as a rear wall to the theatre. I could somehow wall off a mini-closet for the av rack but that would be a tight fit in the wall I want and would at a minimum require a fan to dissipate heat. As it stands now if I leave it open to the big utility room heat and access are no issue at all, just sound. I'll try to work up a better drawing tomorrow morning and post it of some of the options I'm considering.

Framing is going to start around Jan 3 so I have until then to get my act together on placement of the av rack. I mean I can always reframe something like this myself so until drywall nothing is set in stone, but it would be most cost effective and not time consuming to know where I really want it within the next week.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hopefully I have a better handle on the room configuration now.... :R

Are you planning on any room automation? I have read a couple threads where the person used a Global Cache / IR set-up and then controlled the room using the iRule app on a iPod / iPhone / iPad. The nice thing about this is that the gear does not have to be visible from where you sit to control it. Here is a thread where he used this. 

You could then potentially locate the AV cabinet on the wall to your right as you come to the bottom of the stairs. The back would still be accessible from your HVAC room, and it would not be open right behind your seating. You could also cover it with a smoked glass door to allow it to still be seen while blocking some of the blower noise as well.

You can go here for more info on the iRule app and Global Cache set-up.


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

Control of the system is planned to be with a Harmony 1100 via RF so yeah, I could put the rack around the corner. Lighting control will be with a Lutron Grafik Eye 3106.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

basementdweller said:


> I totally acknowledge the huge downsides to the sound because of this open situation and that the area I have listed as a fitness room would make a better dedicated theatre space


I totally agree.The open plan living space is going to present all sort of problems for both audio and acoustics..

The fitness room would make a very nice dedicated theater, where you could have your equipment rack backing into the storage room..
If you want a larger room for your theater that's more suited to family living, I would suggest re-arranging the layout if that's possible at this stage..


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

Prof. said:


> I totally agree.The open plan living space is going to present all sort of problems for both audio and acoustics..
> 
> The fitness room would make a very nice dedicated theatre.


You of course are totally right. Much of my design is a combination of wanting a large open living space for my family including 2 kids under the age of 6 and all the friends and family that comes with that paired with the builder poorly planning the utilities placing the HVAC in the center and waste, water, electric and sump spread to the 4 corners. I could give up the idea of one big room and make a whole series of small ones but I *want* a big space. I could rid myself of a fitness room (that can double as a bedroom) and do the dedicated theater but then that is where all the time will be spent living the big open area mostly unused since the novel experience of the basement will be the screen. 

I like the layout and will stick with it. I know sound will always, always be an issue but I think I can have a great looking, inviting space with excellent inviting lighting, great image quality on a large screen with multilevel theater seating with a beautiful wood and stone bar and eating and living area attached. 

As for av rack what if I created a 4 ft long bump out to the screen wall at the bar corner. The bumped out area could increase the storage room depth to 7 1/2 deep compared to the current 5 1/2, so another 2 ft deep across the 4 ft bump. Next to where you see a fridge in the floorplan. I could put the rack on this wall and sound will be no issue, it will be open to the storage area for cooling etc. problem is wire runs to a flat panel in the living room and the fitness room could be very long... 30ft to 60+. I'll work up a new diagram of this and post it in the next day or so.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

If you could just block off that passageway to the right of the screen, you would have some symmetry to the room which would result in far better audio..
In the photo, it looks like it is already a solid wall! :scratch:


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

It's my fault for not putting a clearer drawing of the theater, before the end of Christmas I'll get one up. The screen is going on the wall that runs from the left of the bar to in front of the sump pump. That wall is 5 1/2 ft displaced from the real concrete wall to create the long thin storage area which will have wall to wall 2 ft thick shelving. The rear of the theater is the central utility room wall, and hallway at the top of the floor plan leading to the fitness room. Imagine the family room divided (but with no wall where the tiny round column is located. A 1/3 of the overall room is devoted to the bar area leaving the other 2/3rds of dimension 15x20 ft for the theater.


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

all right... how about this to show screen and seating layout + new idea for location of in wall av cabinet?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

That's a good location for the equipment, but the layout is far from ideal..
Having that passageway behind the seating and to the right of the screen (as shown in your layout) will create a total in-balance of tonal quality between the L&R speakers..with associated echo effects from the right speaker..

Also you don't have a wall mounting position for your left surround speaker.. other than having both mounted in the ceiling..
You also have different boundary conditions for your L&R speakers which will create an unbalanced sound..

What I was proposing to give you a more symmetrical layout and a better balanced sound, has been altered in your original layout..
Re-orientating the layout and closing off that passageway will give you a much better theater set up..


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I would listen to the advice about creating room symmetry... Or at least consider it. It is so much easier to address these issues now rather than be disappointed later. Of course, that's purely thinking from an optimal HT set-up point if view. If the HT ultimately is lower I. The list of concerns, then that's a different issue!

Good luck and enjoy the process!


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## basementdweller (Dec 24, 2011)

Well here is my rim joist insulation post. My home when built 5 years ago used Fiberglass in the Rim Joist for insulation. This area is well known to be responsible for over 30-40% of the entire heat loss of the wall and leaks also cause cold floors and wasted energy for the main level above. My builder did a sloppy job of the fiberglass install with ill fitting insulation, vapor barriers facing the wrong way in some cases, and lots of air infiltration areas. For example...










Even well installed fiberglass will never fit perfectly and air infiltration is inevitable. Hose and pipe penetrations often leak and the way the wood boards come together often leave gaps. Beyond this you have to take in account this is one area of your home where the only thing that separates you from the outside is a single wood board and they get cold. It grows worse when you finish your basement as the now warmer basement area gets up against the sill which is ice cold, often has metal bolts or nails in it and condenses creating mold. Mine wasn't in that bad shape but pretty much very hose and pipe penetration I had showed daylight and many of the wood gaps existed allowing in airflow. You can see easy evidence of this in the form of dirt marks on the fiberglass when I removed them, like this...



















The black strip above is from a gap leakage between the horizontal rim and the sill plate, it was located in this area...










My choices to fix all this were A) pull the fiberglass, use great stuff foam to try to hit any visible gaps and reinstall better fitting fiberglass (doesn't work well even if you do it right) B) put in 2 inch XPS hard foam board, custom fitting around pipes and caulk in place covered by drywall with construction adhesive for a fire barrier (works well, high labor) or C) used closed cell spray foam under 3 1/4 inch in thickness per code to avoid needing a flame barrier (works the best of all, pros can do it in 2-3 hours but at the highest cost of all choices.)

I chose the spray foam as my fix and used a professional installer as kits I priced were fairly close in cost to just using the pros. The city approved it and they came today and within an hour areas of my upstairs wood floor, in particular the bay windows and bump outs went from icy cold to the same normal base temperature of the entire floor. I expect the overall R-value to be a 21 and air infiltration (and bugs etc.) to be essentially zero. Here are some pictures.



















And that's it. Other than some last minute organization of stuff into the storage areas and covering them with plastic sheeting we are ready to frame. That should start in 1 week.


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