# Receiver advice



## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I need some help choosing a receiver for my bedroom. Along with all the usual inputs and outputs it must have preamp out and power amp in connectors. What is the least expensive receiver that offers these features. 

Access to preamp out and power amp in is more important than anything else. I will be adding this to an existing two channel system via the HT bypass option. Please remember I want to do this as cheaply as possible.

Thanks in advance.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

For preamp outs I recommend Onkyo 709 or higher. There are also comparable options available from Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, & Yamaha, any of which are fine for most bedroom systems. 

Power amp input is an option that I have never seen on a receiver. What exactly are you needing this feature for?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I also agree, the 709 is probably the best or the Marantz 6005 both can be gotten from Accessories4less for cheep.

I am assuming he means analog inputs? Power amp inputs is a confusing term.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Personally i would choose something from Denon or Onkyo.:T


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## superedge88 (Jan 4, 2012)

I love the ease of navigating onkyo receivers, but they get so stinking hot that I just don't trust them long term. I like my denon receivers, though they are not the easiest to learn.


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

A factory refurbished Onkyo TX-NR709 a good little receiver with preouts as well as a solid amplifier section of its own and just about the least expensive receiver with preouts. They do run a bit warm but newer Onkyos have cooling fans and as long as you give it some room for air to flow it should be fine. I used an older TX-SR707 (bought refurbished) as my bedroom receiver for over a year and now after upgrading it's still doing duty as my home office receiver.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

superedge88 said:


> I love the ease of navigating onkyo receivers, but they get so stinking hot that I just don't trust them long term. I like my denon receivers, though they are not the easiest to learn.


I dot get the reason people have heat issues with Onkyo, Ive owned the worst one of the bunch (805) for "heat claims" and it never gets hot only warm Ive had it for over 4 years now. Placement is key with any receiver and should never be placed in a rack without at least 4" of space above and below and an open back.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I have the 809 and it sits snugly in my entertainment center. I have maybe an inch of clearance on the top although plenty behind and have never had any heat issues. I actually think my previous Yamaha ran a bit warmer.


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## superedge88 (Jan 4, 2012)

I have been around quite a few of the onkyo receivers with nothing above them, the back right is always SO hot. I just don't trust electronics that get that hot that don't have cooling fans, but that is just my opinion. I did not know that the newer onkyos have cooling fans, I guess onkyo must have had enough melt downs to make them put cooling fans in their receivers. Funny that most receivers don't have/need cooling fans, but onkyos do, gotta make you wonder what is lacking in their amplifiers that isn't in other brands.


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

superedge88 said:


> I have been around quite a few of the onkyo receivers with nothing above them, the back right is always SO hot. I just don't trust electronics that get that hot that don't have cooling fans, but that is just my opinion. I did not know that the newer onkyos have cooling fans, I guess onkyo must have had enough melt downs to make them put cooling fans in their receivers. Funny that most receivers don't have/need cooling fans, but onkyos do, gotta make you wonder what is lacking in their amplifiers that isn't in other brands.


It's not what's lacking in Onkyos, it's that they put extraordinarily amplifiers and power supplies in their receivers and those generate heat. Look at the weight of the 709 it's nearly 27lbs compared to a 24lb Denon AVR-2312. Anyway I have a 54lb TX-NR906 that I bought brand new when it was the latest thing 3 years ago, and a TX-SR707 and a TX-SR606 that bought refurbished a couple of years ago and both have been flawless. I just bought 40lb TX-NR809 and spent the weekend setting it up in my family room, moving the 906 to my bedroom (oh my aching back), and the 707 (that used to live in my bedroom) into my home-office. The 606 is going to a buddy's house. The secret to their long lives is leaving room for air to circulate.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

sholling said:


> It's not what's lacking in Onkyos, it's that they put extraordinarily amplifiers and power supplies in their receivers and those generate heat. .......I have a 54lb TX-NR906 that I bought brand new


Yes, the 805, 875, 905, 876 and the 906 were built for serious sound output, I dont think we will ever see receivers like that again. Onkyo still leads the pack for power output on all of their receivers compared to the same price competition.


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## superedge88 (Jan 4, 2012)

I've honestly never heard anyone rave about Onkyo sound ouput till reading these past two replies. I do love the user friendly menus on the Onkyo's, my Denon receivers demand hours of tinkering before you get comfortable with navigating settings, the remote is counter intuitive as well. If I had to get new receivers I would look into the Harmon Kardon receivers before making a decision.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

A little clarification.
I don't need the power amplifier section. I have a preamp a powered sub, a couple of Hafler DH-200's and four Advent Mini's. This is for my bedroom so seating is restricted to the sweet spot. So, there's no need for a center channel speaker. I already have two channel stereo. I want to add surround/MC sound. it's just cheaper to buy a receiver than a separate processor. This is a budget system We're talking about. 

I want to use my existing preamp (in bypass mode) and existing power amps for two channel music . That's why I need access to preamp out connections. Surround/MC is of secondary importance here. That's why I inquired about the least expensive receiver that has preamp level outputs. 

I will look into what's been suggested. Thanks. *I'm still looking for the cheapest I can get away with.*

I posted the question because most of the specs and literature I've seen don't bother mentioning if you can separate the preamp and power amp sections.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

phreak said:


> For preamp outs I recommend Onkyo 709 or higher. There are also comparable options available from Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, & Yamaha, any of which are fine for most bedroom systems.
> 
> Power amp input is an option that I have never seen on a receiver. What exactly are you needing this feature for?


A receiver that allows separation of power and preamp sections would have preamp out and power amp input connectors.

The signal on these connectors would have to be analog.


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

JoeESP9 said:


> I want to use my existing preamp (in bypass mode) and existing power amps for two channel music . That's why I need access to preamp out connections. Surround/MC is of secondary importance here. That's why I inquired about the least expensive receiver that has preamp level outputs.


There really isn't any reason to continue to use the preamp if you have a good receiver with preouts. The receiver will serve quite well as your preamp and is in fact mainly what I use one of mine for. It's just as clean and has more features on tap (defeatable in pure mode for 2 channel listening) for when you need them. My 809 feeds a 500wpc (@4ohms) stereo amplifier for my mains and another with 300w (@4ohms) on tap for my center and 200w (@8ohms) for my side surrounds. Only my rear surrounds are powered by the receiver.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> I also agree, the 709 is probably the best or the Marantz 6005 both can be gotten from Accessories4less for cheep.
> 
> I am assuming he means analog inputs? Power amp inputs is a confusing term.


JoeESP9, did Tony get it right back in post 3 that by power amp in you are actually referring to the analog multichannel inputs? I have only ever seen power amp in used to describe the terminals on speakers and subwoofers.

Still unsure here what you are wanting to do, but I think your goals could be achieved best by connecting all multichannel sources to the receiver and connecting the left-right channel outputs to your preamp input. That way your existing 2 ch setup (which it seems you have invested heavily in) does not get compromised and the receiver handles all other channels without the front load and it's internal amps. 

If this describes your situation accurately, you will be very happy with the Onkyo 709, or to cut costs more find a older Onkyo 700 series or higher used. The Marantz listed earlier would also work well. If I still misunderstand you plans, shoot us a little more info.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

sholling said:


> There really isn't any reason to continue to use the preamp if you have a good receiver with preouts. The receiver will serve quite well as your preamp and is in fact mainly what I use one of mine for. It's just as clean and has more features on tap (defeatable in pure mode for 2 channel listening) for when you need them. My 809 feeds a 500wpc (@4ohms) stereo amplifier for my mains and another with 300w (@4ohms) on tap for my center and 200w (@8ohms) for my side surrounds. Only my rear surrounds are powered by the receiver.


I could buy a preamp/processor. I don't want or need the power amp section of a receiver. Nor do I care about it's two channel performance as it will never be used for that. I asked about a receiver because they are generally much cheaper than a preamp/processor. I'm trying to economize. I'm retired and have a fixed income. I looked at the Onkyo and it doesn't seem to have preamp out connections from the views I've been able to get.

It's been my experience that the preamp sections of AV receivers fare poorly when compared to a straight two channel preamp when used in two channel mode. Also, I need a phono input. My current highly modified Dyna PAS-3 works fine for two channel sound plus it has a great phono section. The Dyna feeds a pair of Hafler DH-200's with Musical Concept mods.

Let's try again:
I want a receiver with preamp outputs and power amp inputs as cheaply as possible. I'm not interested in it's two channel performance. It will be added to an existing two channel system that already has a superior preamp and power amps. I am trying to economize by not buying a separate stand alone processor. They are generally much more expensive than a receiver. 

I'm trying to get close to the same performance I get from my main system. It uses an ARC SP-9 for all two channel sources. All surround/MC sources are connected to a Lexicon processor. It feeds my front channel amps and speakers via a pass through on my two channel preamp. The Lexicon is directly connected to my rear amps and speakers. I have no center channel speaker. I use phantom mode for the dialog channel. 

I feel this gives me the best compromise. I have my bi-amped tube driven two channel system for two channel and can switch to full surround at the flick of a switch. I'm not willing to sacrifice anything as far as two channel sound is concerned. 

Superior two channel sound is my primary impetus. MC/surround sound is an add on for me. This applies to my main system and my bedroom system.

I was looking at the Emotiva processor it's reasonably priced. Can anyone recommend something comparable for less money?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Onkyo 709 is cheaper than the Emotiva and also is better in many ways. You wont find a lower cost receiver that has pre-outs and good quality.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Where is it for sale cheaper than the Emotiva ($499)? I found it for $10 more but it was a refurbished unit. I have no desire to buy a product that was broken and fixed.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Emotiva has bugs and is very far behind the 8ball as far as features. I dont recommend it at all. Refurbished is just as good as new dont be fooled by what you hear. Many refurbished units have never even left the factory and touched any bodies hands.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

The two times I've bought refurbished gear they both failed within a year. Fortunately they were both purchased locally. Consequently returning them wasn't much of a problem. Those two examples have pretty much soured me on refurbished anything.

Please remember, this is an add on to a functioning two channel system. It's in my bedroom and it's primary purpose is playing two channel music. Currently I'm using a pair of Advent mini's with a passive 15" sub woofer. Two Hafler DH-200's and a Paradigm X-30 crossover allow me to bi-amp. A TV, a TT, a tuner and a CD/DVD player are connected to a modified Dyna PAS-3 preamp to drive everything. 

I recently came upon another pair of Mini's. That's why I'm looking for something that gives me surround.


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

JoeESP9 said:


> Where is it for sale cheaper than the Emotiva ($499)? I found it for $10 more but it was a refurbished unit. I have no desire to buy a product that was broken and fixed.


But was it broken and fixed or just returned, tested, and resold. This is where the manufacturers commitment to quality comes in. Some companies do a 100% function test on their refurbs while some others just do a quick once over and reship. If you're dealing with a company that 100% function tests its refurbs then such a refurb has at least as good of a chance of being flawless as a brand new product where QA was limited to perfunctory individual testing and only a 1-2% sample sent to QA for full function testing. 

I have no idea what percentage Onkyo tests but of the four Onkyo receivers that I own two were bought as refurbs from Accessories For Less and all of them have been flawless. In fact I haven't read any complaints about Onkyo refurbs. Of course that's no guaranty that you won't be the first. It's your money but as a retiree I can't always afford not to take advantage of an opportunity to get more bang from my limited bucks. In contrast while I'm a huge fan of Denon receivers I wouldn't buy one that's been refurbished because I've simply read too many complaints. 

Just to give you an idea of where I'm coming from my main system is a brand new Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver acting mainly as a pre/pro for an Emotiva XPA-2 powering my Salk Songtower-RTs and an XPA-3 powering my Song Center-RT and my Song Surrounds. Only the rear channels of my 7.1 system are powered by the receiver. 

Before the TX-NR809 I used a TX-NR906 first as a receiver and later as a pre/pro for the Emotivas. That 3 year old receiver is still alive and well and driving the Ascend Sierra-1 NrT speakers in my bedroom. It works fine and was only replaced to give me access to a few new features and to free up the beastly 54lb TX-NR906 for my bedroom. The 2 year old refurbished and still healthy TX-SR707 that once lived in my bedroom is now my home-office receiver, while my old refurbished and still healthy TX-SR606 is about to be gifted to a financially challenged friend.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

When you buy refurbished you don't know its history. You pay your money and take a chance. 

I'm also a retiree with a fixed income. Couple that with my never having owned any kind of receiver in my 46 years of involvement with this hobby. Those two things should make my reluctance easier to understand.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Understandable, but that leaves you with a delema then as the Emotiva is going to most likely give you issues as it rarely likes to pass the HDMI signal as it looses the HDCP handshake. It also uses a proprietary room correction that is very limited.


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## Drewh01 (Jan 19, 2011)

I have had my Emo UMC-1 for the last 9 months and really like it. I have had a few issues here and there, but nothing that gets me too worked up. I am really waiting for the XMC model coming out soon and the 40% discount card sealed the deal. For the price it is worth the little quirks I experience maybe once a week or less - and I use it every day 10-12 hrs a day. Plus the 2 channel SQ is pretty amazing as compared to units 3x the price.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Now that Emotive seems to be trying to dump UMC-1's I wonder if I should bite. Does anyone know how they support discontinued products?


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