# Classic speakers-no sound from mid-ranges or tweeters



## Leesa (Nov 16, 2009)

Hi,

We were given a pair of Pioneer CS-G301WA 11 speakers. 12" woofers, 4.74" mid-ranges and 2.63" tweeters. The back connection is a push-in-the-wire type. 

The woofers have foam rot and I have cleaned off the old foam and glue where the brittle surrounds used to be, so I can order replacements. I have never done this before, but I found a how-to at this forum with some good step-by-step pictures. My husband has replaced the entire cones on our other pair of speakers, so if I need help, I can call him. 

But, I am curious as to what I encountered next. I hooked up these 120 watt speakers to my JVC receiver (1981 model, with capacity of 150 watts output) to see how they sound. There is distorted sound coming from the woofers, and when I gently hold the out edge of the cone to stabilize it, the sound comes out more true, as my action somewhat acts like the surrounds. I would expect this, as the surrounds are rotted away. But, there is no sound coming from either pair of mid-ranges or tweets. I can see no tears or holes. There is an electronic connection inside the cabinet, and I'm not sure what this is called - the crossover? It's just a little circuit board with a coil of copper wire wound round and a couple of capacitors. It appears in good condition - no leaks form the capacitors, if that is what they are called. The connections (spade connectors) all look good. I'm not sure how to diagnose this problem. The fellow that gave them to us said they just needed new foam edges. I am new at hi-fi and home theatre, and don't know anything about amplifiers, or the like. All of our equipment is a bit dated.

We have a volt meter tester, and can test the speaker wires, I think? (husband isn't home at the moment) I do get sound from our cabinet 2-way speakers when I use the same wiring connections to the back of the receiver. 

Thanks for looking over our problem. Much appreciated.
Regards, Leesa


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hello and welcome to the Shack!

Your description of the problem does sound like the tweeter and mid driver are blown, however it could also be the crossover that has gone bad. On the back of the cabinet is there only one set of input connectors?


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## ripcard (Sep 30, 2008)

Hi Leesa, I'm not familiar with these speakers but I recently rebuilt/refoamed a set of Pioneer HPM-500s. These had adjustable crossovers using a rotary switch on the back of the boxes. If these get dirty they can cause this. In my case, only one of the speakers had one of the mids not working. Cleaned the switch and all was well. Also had a pair of Sansui SP-200s do the same thing on both speakers, only it was the tweeters that time. Hope this helps.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Good call Rick:T I forgot about that aspect of most Pioneer speakers of that era.


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## Leesa (Nov 16, 2009)

I hope this message makes it through. Having a bit of problems posting.

Hi tonydvd and ripcard and thanks for the quick responses and the warm welcome!

Tonydvd, there's only one connection to the back-the pos/neg wire connections.

ripcard, I did a search for adjustable crossover and don't see anything like that on these speakers. 
There is just one 2x3-inch board with what look like two aluminum capacitors and a copper coil and eight wire connections to the board, six of which go to the three different drivers. I will re-check all connections, as I've only had a good look at the woofers. 

The only other similar problem I read was at another speaker forum where the person had lost mid-range and tweet sound from one of his pair of speakers, and it was after a circuit had blown in his receiver. 

I'm was hoping it would be just a surrounds replacement to repair these.

Maybe I should ask my husband to grill his former co-worker about these speakers, "Exactly what did happen the last time you used these?" :R 

Again, thank you for your time and help. Much appreciated!
Leesa


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

There is no rotary mid range or tweeter control on the CS-G301WA 11 which dates back to 1986. The mid ranges and tweeters will have to be disconnected from the crossover and tested to see if they still work or not. This will determine if the problem is with the drivers or the crossover.


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## Leesa (Nov 16, 2009)

Thanks, Mike P.!

We will do that. My husband knows more about the parts of a speaker, as his high-school buddy used to make them from scratch, using pine shelving and Velcro to hold the screen to the cabinet, and my husband watched how he put them together.

Does anyone have any images of where the crossover would be on a speaker set-up. I checked "loudspeaker" at the wiki page, but it doesn't show what a crossover looks like, though it shows the electrical diagrams for crossovers. Is the crossover that small circuit board that is glued to the inside back of each cabinet, or is it on the driver/speaker magnet area? Yes, I do not know this. 

Thanks, Leesa


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Leesa said:


> Is the crossover that small circuit board that is glued to the inside back of each cabinet, or is it on the driver/speaker magnet area?


Yes, that small circuit board sure sounds like that's your crossover. For the record, I agree with Mike's suggestion of disconnecting each driver and testing them in turn.


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## Leesa (Nov 16, 2009)

Thank you, glaufman. Now I know. I appreciate it. 

Will be testing it with a Fluke meter when my husband comes home. I tested it with an old Radio Shack multi-meter, but really didn't know what I was doing, and didn't disconnect any of the drives from the crossover, but the reading was different for both mid-ranges and tweeters compared to the woofer. (read 0 for the woofers, and about 4 or 5 for the mid-ranges and tweets). 

Looks like crossovers are not that expensive from one repair parts place I found. I joked with my husband that his co-worker probably knew nothing about the messed up speakers, as he has two grown kids, and they were probably the ones that messed them up and didn't tell dad. :rofl2: Thanks again for the information shared! 

Regards, Leesa


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## Leesa (Nov 16, 2009)

An update. I didn't have the patience to wait for my husband to get home, so I used the old multi-tester to test the woofers, tweeters, and mid-ranges, and in both speakers, the tweeters and mid-ranges were dead. So, I went to MCM Electronic' s website and bought two 4" paper cone mid-ranges for $11.98 and two 3" paper cone tweeters for $11.08. I bought the surrounds at Speakerworks. They were a bit tight in size, but I managed to glue them down using contact cement, instead of the white acrylic glue they sent with the kit, and several clothes pins to help hold it in place while I secured the sticky edges down. I was able to feel for the sweet spot, too, and that was when I pushed the edges down as once contact cement gets hold of its other mate, it sticks good! 
The mid-ranges fit the holes fine, just had to re-drill holes for the square face screw holes. The tweeters didn't quite go in the holes, so I used a small drywall hand saw to enlarge the openings, then used a rasp to clean up the edges. 
Now we have two like new cabinet speakers that we have been enjoying for several months now, amazed at the sound during DVD movie playback. 
Again, thanks for all your help! I now know what a crossover is.
Regards, Leesa


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Leesa said:


> An update. I didn't have the patience to wait for my husband to get home, so I used the old multi-tester to test the woofers, tweeters, and mid-ranges, and in both speakers, the tweeters and mid-ranges were dead. So, I went to MCM Electronic' s website and bought two 4" paper cone mid-ranges for $11.98 and two 3" paper cone tweeters for $11.08. I bought the surrounds at Speakerworks. They were a bit tight in size, but I managed to glue them down using contact cement, instead of the white acrylic glue they sent with the kit, and several clothes pins to help hold it in place while I secured the sticky edges down. I was able to feel for the sweet spot, too, and that was when I pushed the edges down as once contact cement gets hold of its other mate, it sticks good!
> The mid-ranges fit the holes fine, just had to re-drill holes for the square face screw holes. The tweeters didn't quite go in the holes, so I used a small drywall hand saw to enlarge the openings, then used a rasp to clean up the edges.
> Now we have two like new cabinet speakers that we have been enjoying for several months now, amazed at the sound during DVD movie playback.
> Again, thanks for all your help! I now know what a crossover is.
> Regards, Leesa


it is a disaster to simply put drivers into any speakers. Speakers are composed of drivers, crossover, and the enclosure. These are engineered and not simply slapped in a box. 

You are smart enough to build your own speaker and the ones below would offer substantial improvement over your current speakers.
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-702 is a very good low cost speaker kit that I recommend.


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## Leesa (Nov 16, 2009)

Since the speakers were free and it being my first time to repair speakers, it was not a disasterous choice to check over what was available (I didn't have your link at that time) and install (I didn't slap them in) the drivers in by trying to match what was already in these cabinet speakers. We are very happy with the sound output which overs a substantial improvement over what we were getting from the previous speakers, especially when compared to the television speakers. Your link is appreciated, as it might help others about to repair their speakers.
Regards, Leesa


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## ripcard (Sep 30, 2008)

I think describing her efforts as a "disaster" is a bit harsh. Clearly she is happy with bringing these back to life. That is what's most important. Not all speakers are for critical listening. Are they ideal?..perhaps not. Do they serve the intended purpose? I think she answered that one. Enjoy Leesa.


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## Leesa (Nov 16, 2009)

Now that is encouraging, ripcard! Thank you!!! If me and my husband raised our heads, jaws dropped, and looked at each other and went, "Wow!" when we first stuck in a DVD and played it with these brought-back-to-life speakers, then we are pleased. 

Thanks again!
Regards, Leesa


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## Derry (Apr 10, 2010)

kudos to Leesa for even working on those speakers,, she knew how to use a volt meter,,:T

if they sound good to you and hubby ears you did well,, replacing individual speakers with another something is a risk but it sounds like your selection was good,, 

hopefully you will enjoy them for a long time and have a great story to tell about your rebuild,,

Derry


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