# Sunfire TGA-7401 vs. Parasound Halo A51 vs. Wyred 4 Sound MC5x500



## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Any comments/opinions on these three amplifiers will be appreciated.

According to what I have read so far, the Sunfire sounds warmer, but almost dull and muddy with the highs rolled off. Is this true?

As for the Parasound, it sounds more neutral and offers a more "detailed" sound. Is this also true?

But, the Sunfire is quite a bit more powerful than the Parasound. Can the Sunfire handle impedance loads of less than 3 ohms?

For the Wyred 4 Sound, it is an ICE based amplifier and I am told that these amplifiers don't like low impedance. My speakers have dips to around 2.8 ohms, will the Wyred 4 Sound be up to the task?

Which do you think will be a better match for my Klipsch speakers (which tend to be on the brighter side)? I have the RF-7 main speakers, RC-7 center speaker, and RS-7 surround speakers. Based on the feedback from the Klipsch forum, these speakers love power.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

If your speakers are on the bright side, I'd opt for the warmer amp. All of the three amps mentioned in your post are quality products, so it will probably come down to system matching (warm amp for bright speakers) and personal preference. You will also encounter people who believe that all amps sound the same.

Klipsch are usually very efficient speakers, so you will get a high SPL without a lot of power. Also, I'd guess that power ratings on amps of this caliber are on the conservative side. 

Going from 100 to 200 watts only gives you an increase of ~3dB (all other things being equal); to truly double the SPL (+10 dB) requires 10x the power. _1000_ watts will give you twice the SPL of a _100_ watt amp. My point is to not get too bogged down with specs; it is the sound that matters.


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks.

However, will the Sunfire and Wyred 4 Sound amps be able to cope with the 2.8 ohm load? I am pretty sure the Parasound can.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Kain said:


> Thanks.
> 
> However, will the Sunfire and Wyred 4 Sound amps be able to cope with the 2.8 ohm load? I am pretty sure the Parasound can.


Both the Sunfire and Wyred 4 Sound are listed as 4 ohm stable, and all of the speakers are 8Ω nominal loads. I'd guess that they would have no trouble with 2.8Ω as the speaker may dip down that low only briefly and at extreme frequencies. Also, the _least_ efficient speaker in your list is 98dB/1 watt/1 meter; these amps will destroy your eardrums before they even break a sweat! :hide:


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

BTW-the _least_ powerful amp in your list will be giving you an SPL of *>111dB *_before_ it reaches its rated _continues_ power; I doubt that you will be pushing these amps anywhere near their limits. The speakers are listed as 8 ohm...I see no problem with any of the amps in your list.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Kain said:


> Any comments/opinions on these three amplifiers will be appreciated.
> 
> According to what I have read so far, the Sunfire sounds warmer, but almost dull and muddy with the highs rolled off. Is this true?
> 
> ...


Hello,
Truth be told your Klipschs are so efficient that they really do not need more than any quality AVR's power to reach Reference Levels. It truly is my favorite aspect about Horn Loaded Speakers. I am surprised the folks at the Klipsch Forum feel that way in regards to power as the RF-7's are rated at 101db efficient.

What are you currently using as an AVR/Amplifier? Some do find Klipsch's to be to upfront in their presentation, but I have always thought they were great for HT.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Truth be told your Klipschs are so efficient that they really do not need more than any quality AVR's power to reach Reference Levels. It truly is my favorite aspect about Horn Loaded Speakers. I am surprised the folks at the Klipsch Forum feel that way in regards to power as the RF-7's are rated at 101db efficient.
> 
> What are you currently using as an AVR/Amplifier? Some do find Klipsch's to be to upfront in their presentation, but I have always thought they were great for HT.
> ...


I have the old Harman Kardon AVR 8000/8500 that I bought new. It was a flagship in the DVD days and has quite a beefy amplifier section. However, I noticed someone on the Klipsch forum stating that he had this A/V receiver and when he upgraded to QSC pro amps, there was a significant improvement. There are many threads about going from A/V receivers to separate amplifiers on the Klipsch forum and nearly all state that there is a great improvement.

By the way, currently, my speakers sound great at lower volumes, but at higher volumes they start to get bright/harsh. I was told that a high-powered amplifier could and most likely will cure this problem. As a result, I am currently leaning towards the Sunfire TGA-7401 because (1) it can be bought locally, (2) has more power than the Parasound, and (3) is known to have a warmer tone which should tame my speakers.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
There is truly a great debate as to whether anyone can differentiate between any type of Amplifier when both are Level Matched. A gentlemen named Jim Clark even has thrown down a $10,000 Challenge for anyone to tell the differences between any 2 Power Amplifiers.

I love my Parasound HCA-2205AT which is all but identical to the A51. While I honestly do not think it is needed with Klipsch's, I would order one from Audio Advisor as they have an excellent Return Policy unless there is a local Parasound Dealer that would allow you to demo an A51. Or A52. or any of the other Amplifiers on your list.

Truth be told, I am somewhat envious of Klipsch Owners as Martin Logan Electrostatic Speakers utterly demand Power Amplifiers like listed above. Both my Mains and Surrounds dip to below 1 Ohm and are almost 20db's less efficient than your RF-7's. Electrostats are truly some of the most difficult to drive speakers you can find along with Planar Speakers.

As it seems like you have more than enough power, I honestly am thinking that this truly might be a Speaker choice issue. Sadly in this Ecommerce era, it is quite difficult to find many if any Speakers setup On Display from a local AV Store. Almost all have gone the route of Custom Installation and instead of a room with tons of AVR's, Amplifiers, Speakers, and such to choose from they often have instead setup a single HT replete with a Front Projector, Lighting Controls, etc.. The prices Custom Installation Stores charge for labor is the only thing keeping many of these places going as most have simply stopped trying to compete with Internet Direct Dealers.

There still are some cities blessed with traditional HiFi Stores, but BB's Magnolia has taken over in most locales. I would simply order a quality Power Amplifier and listen hard for any differences. Also, the Outlaw Audio Model 7500 is simply amazing for the money and is a beast.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

I have one more question though. On the Sunfire Web site, the TGA-7401 is spec'd to 120 amps of current per channel while weighing 46 lbs. I had an e-mail discussion with Parasound regarding their NewClassic 5250 v.2 and asked them how it was possible for the Sunfire to have so much more current than the Parasound while weighing so much less. They said that they would have to "question" the Sunfire's specs on current by weight is part of the equation when it comes to current. For reference, the Parasound Halo A51 has 60 amps of current per channel while weighing 80 pounds. The Sunfire TGA-7401 has double the current capability while weighing about half as much. Are Sunfire's specs accurate or is something up? I am sure Parasound's input on this matter would be bias so I am looking for an unbiased point-of-view.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
To me, it need not be a debate. I recommend simply buying any of the Amplifiers you are considering and decide for yourself if the juice is worth the squeeze. And the debate about the differences in Amplifier SQ is a debate that has raged for decades and there are simply those who believe there to be a difference and those that do not. We have a Thread about this very subject that has honestly gone on for years.

However, at HTS we want healthy debate but will not allow it to devolve into something vitriolic. I personally use Amplifiers that are quite powerful and all Class AB with a heavy Class A Bias. All the same, there are many here who are using a Behringer EP Series Amplifier that costs thousands less and believe it to be perfect.

By mentioning these debates, I am simply trying to provide you with the most accurate view of the situation.
I genuinely think you should purchase any one of the Amplifiers you are considering and simply trust your ears...
J


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Ok, thanks.

Anything on the second part though?



> I have one more question though. On the Sunfire Web site, the TGA-7401 is spec'd to 120 amps of current per channel while weighing 46 lbs. I had an e-mail discussion with Parasound regarding their NewClassic 5250 v.2 and asked them how it was possible for the Sunfire to have so much more current than the Parasound while weighing so much less. They said that they would have to "question" the Sunfire's specs on current by weight is part of the equation when it comes to current. For reference, the Parasound Halo A51 has 60 amps of current per channel while weighing 80 pounds. The Sunfire TGA-7401 has double the current capability while weighing about half as much. Are Sunfire's specs accurate or is something up? I am sure Parasound's input on this matter would be bias so I am looking for an unbiased point-of-view.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

As for the Sunfire/Bob Carver Designs, he has been using what he calls a Tracking Downconverter. It is a Switching Power Supply Design that predates designs like the Bang & Olefsen ICEPower, Behringer, et al.
Where a great deal of the electricity a Class AB or Class A draws becomes heat, Amplifiers like the Sunfire are claimed to be 95% efficient. As with all things, there are those who find that Class D Amplifiers are best used for applications like Subwoofers, but that perception really seems to be changing.


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