# Need suggestions for home theatre around $2000 with specific requirements.



## ta75050

Hello Experts:
I am a total newbie and looking to put together a basic plus HT for my new home. Here are my specific requirements. Right now, I dont have anything ( no tv, no blue ray etc)

1. within $2000 ( tv not counted in this amount)
2. room dimension 14x15
3. have two step seating (just like theatre). first row person is around 6-7 ft from TV wall.
4. I prefer TV instead of projector & screen.
5. I prefer speakers that I can put on the wall ( not inside). Something small to medium size.
6. prefer 5.1 system as my room is small.
7. I have a small equipment closet outside the media room to keep all equipment.
8. my HT will be more for movies either thru blue ray player or netflix, amazon etc.

So in need suggestions as to:
1. what tv size appropriate for my size room. Pls suggest specific brands
2. what speakers, receiver, sub-woofers, pls suggest specific brands and what place to buy ( in usa). I am bsed in dallas, TX.
3. Any other suggestions that you think can help me bring $ down.


----------



## chashint

Star Power near Beltline and the North Dallas Tollway has the biggest selection of speakers to audition locally.
Sometimes they have excellent sale prices.
I recommend going there and listening to some speakers to see which ones you like.
If you don't like your salesman go to the front desk and ask them to get someone else to help you.
I have had experiences ranging from stellar to pathetic, since you are new to this you need someone laid back and willing to spend some time with you.

If you just want to order from the Internet a package deal that gets good reviews and customer feedback is the Hsu Enthusiast 2 package.
Just search for Hsu Research and in the menu bar you will see package deals.
That speaker system is $1450 to the door which will leave you $550 for an AVR which is about the right ratio of speakers to AVR.
For the AVR I would call Vanns, Electronic Expo, and J&R and see if I could get the Denon 2112 to the door for the $550 left in the budget.
You have to call to get a price lower than what is listed on the websites.
Frys sells HDMI cables everyday for $5 and sometimes $3.
Generic 14 AWG speaker wire is more than adequate, Mono Price is the go to place to order it, they also sell HDMI cables.
Hope this helps a little bit.


----------



## ta75050

Thanks a lot for your reply to the post. It looks like the speaker set you mentioned has bookshelf speakers and unfortunately i am not considering bookshelf type. I am looking something that is relatively smaller yet has good power like BOSE.


----------



## GranteedEV

While I could recommend you things right now, I really want you to confirm that you're willing to accept the compromises with small / out of the way speakers - that is - no they won't be powerful, even in a relatively small 14x15 room you _will_ find that small speakers have their limits. This does include Bose although they do everything in demonstration setups to give the illusion of power, including putting you mere inches from their speakers, with unnaturally elevated bass response to draw your attention. 

All in all I'd prefer if you would consider floorstanding and bookshelf speakers, as that's where the performance truly is, no matter what marketing and hearsay may have led you to believe. It's just best if you help yourself evaluate what you_ truly_ want, before jumping into any purchases.


----------



## ta75050

Thanks for taking time. 
Since I dont have lot of space in my media room, I am not very much into floor standing and bookshelf speakers. I'd have no problem if I had space to accomodate these types and that's why I am insisting on on the wall speakers. I can compromise on size a little bit. Again I am looking for a little more than basic system.


----------



## chashint

ta75050 said:


> 1. *within $2000 *( tv not counted in this amount)
> 5. I prefer speakers that I can put on the wall ( not inside). Something small to medium size.
> 6. prefer *5.1 system *as my room is small.
> 8. my *HT will be more for movies *either thru blue ray player or netflix, amazon etc.
> 
> So in need suggestions as to:
> 1. what tv size appropriate for my size room. Pls suggest specific brands
> 2. what speakers, receiver, sub-woofers, pls suggest specific brands and what place to buy ( in usa). I am bsed in dallas, TX.
> 3. Any other suggestions that you think can help me *bring $ down*.





ta75050 said:


> Thanks a lot for your reply to the post. It looks like the speaker set you mentioned has bookshelf speakers and unfortunately *i am not considering bookshelf type*. I am looking something that is *relatively smaller *yet has *good power like BOSE*.





ta75050 said:


> Thanks for taking time.
> Since I dont have lot of space in my media room, I am not very much into floor standing and bookshelf speakers. I'd have no problem if I had space to accomodate these types and that's why I am insisting on on the wall speakers. I can compromise on size a little bit. Again I am looking for a little more than basic system.


I based my response specifically to the list of requirements that you provided.
Bookshelf speakers can be wall mounted with brackets.

As far as the Bose speaker system goes, if that is what you want then by all means get it.
But the Hsu system I recommended will be a huge improvement over a top of the line Bose Acoustimass surround system.
Actually almost any bookshelf / subwoofer system that costs the same as the Bose system will be better.
You really should make a trip to Starpower and hear what real speakers sound like.
There are many speakers there that will knock your socks off.


----------



## chashint

I would recommend a 60" or larger TV.
Costco and Sam's both have a good selection at good prices.
Fry's is also a good place to buy a TV.
The return policy is very good at all three places.


----------



## dsully444

my suggestion for TVs would be to determine the size make and model of the tv. Next, google the prices and look for the best price you can find. Next go to the manufacturer site and determine which e-tailers are certified to sell the product. Next, call each e-tailer some time it takes a few tries, and get them to match the lowest price found. As far as cabling and mounts, I only shop at monoprice. For receivers, alot of people recommend accessories4less for onkyo and dennon, but most caution because they are re-furbs to buy the extended warranty.

I have Chase Sho-10s for the LCR and Emotiva in-ceiling 8s L and R surround and think they are great. Emotiva was just reviewed and Hometheater magazine or another recently and received solid reviews for their new bookshelves and surround package and Chase has a LCR coming out soon that may work also. I like internet direct for the bang for the buck, but I understand it is not for everyone.


----------



## ta75050

HI All:

I got a quote from a local HT installer. Pls let me know what are your thoughts.

Package:
Pioneer VSX-521 receiver
EPSON powerlite Home cinema 8350 projector
Paradigm 5.1 system ( Cinema 100CT model)
Paradigm 8 inch high powered subwoofer ( Cinema 100CT model)
100 inch Dragonfly projection screen and projector mount

He is charging $4k for the whole package above along with installation. Would like to know your suggestions if the price/value is reasonable.


----------



## JCD

Some general comments on the systems suggested:

Paradigm makes good speakers. I think they offer up some of the best bang for the buck out there. I haven't heard the latest version of their Cinema line, but I would expect that they sound good.
That screen size may be a little big -- I went to this calculator and, assuming I'm reading the results correctly (big assumption) the seating distance is 13.1ft for a 100" screen, which wouldn't be all that great for the front row. For a 12 ft viewing distance, THX (per the calculator) says you should have a 93.6" screen. So, it's in the ballpark, but maybe a little on the big side. Doesn't mean you have to use the whole screen of course. I'd make a mock up of the screen and place it on the wall to get a perspective on what it would be like.
Epson is supposed to make good projectors, but I don't know much about them.
I'm not a big fan of Pioneer receivers, but this is all a perception thing -- I've just heard that there have been more units that fail than normal. Again, I've been out of the loop for a while, so if this WAS true, then maybe things have changed. I suspect that's all he carries, but I'd see about getting an Onkyo. They seem to still be the flavor of the week for a good bang for the buck receiver.

Also, if you wanted to put together your own system, I've heard that Usher's S-520 bookshelf speakers are pretty awesome for the coin. They used to be $399/pr, but I think they've since gone up to $479/pr. I'd consider getting those all around and then getting a SVS or HSU sub and an Onkyo receiver. I think if you priced everything out, you'd get it right around $2k. That system would destroy anything put out by Bose.


Circling back to Bose -- this link gives a good read on why Bose may not be the best choice for you. You just can't get good powerful sound out of a little cube -- it's a matter of physics. If you do go that route, there are better for cheaper. I think I saw someone else link you to something.


----------



## chashint

It is not what I would choose but it looks like there is about $3k worth of gear listed there (mail order prices) and if installation includes a real calibration of the projector and running the wires through the attic and pulled down the walls I can see labor running adding up to $1k pretty easily.
So if this is the system you want it looks like a reasonable price.
Good luck with this and please post your level of satisfaction when it is complete.
BTW, which HT installer are you using ?


----------



## ta75050

It looks like I maybe going for in-celing speakers. Can anybody suggest good in-ceiling speakers witin $1k range, subwoffer and receiver. I am thinking of not going the HT installer as my builder is quoting me good price on 5.1 wiring. So it doesnt make any sense to get a outside guy and have him do the wiring etc.

So to summarize, I need help with..
1. Good in-ceiling speakers (within $1k)
2. Receiver within $500 ( 3D compatible, dont have to worry about upgrading for next 5-10 yrs)
3. good sub-woofer to go with speakers and receiver.


----------



## chashint

Get AWG14 speaker wire.
Mono Price is the go to place to get it.
Take a look at Sound Distributors website.
They have several in wall / in ceiling packages.
I already really pointed you towards a sub and an AVR that are price appropriate to your budget.


----------



## ta75050

Thanks a lot. Pls suggest sub again.. I see that you suggested Denon 2112. Your post was not clear on sub for me. Also, if u can guide me towards what should be the layout in terms if i should use in-wall front and in ceiling as rear speakers.. Any suggestions on that.


----------



## chashint

http://sounddistributors.com/buynow...00&crid=246&cat_name=Klipsch+In+Wall+Speakers

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk4.html

Put tv15 in the coupon code field at sound distributors for 15% discount.

I have suggested StarPower to you a couple of times, they have a good assortment of in wall speakers you can listen to.
They should be able to meet or beat Sound Distributors, especially if buying a full set.


----------



## ta75050

Given a constraint of in-ceiling speakers, what would you suggest the layout of the speakers, sub.
The link above was for in-wall speaklers. The front/back walls are not thick-enough for in-wall speakers, so have to use in-ceiling speakers only.

Pls suggest a proper layout, i have attached the room dimensions.


----------



## chashint

Sound Distributors sells Klipsch and Polk in ceiling speakers, just pick out 5 of them (all the same) that fit your budget. 
I like Klipsch speakers better than Polk but there are an equal number of people that would choose Polk over Klipsch.
Picking the most expensive you can afford in this instance will get you the best sound.
If the tweeter can be swiveled that is a plus so it can be pointed towards the listening area.
Position the front three in a straight line 18 inches away from the front wall with the center speaker right in the middle of your screen. 
The front right and left will be about 7 or 8 ft apart from each other or just outside the edges of your screen if it is wider than that.
The rear speakers should be placed 12 - 18 inches away from the side walls and about 12 inches behind the rear seats.


----------



## tonyvdb

In wall/ ceiling speakers is a huge compromise in sound quality, I would highly suggest looking at this speaker package from SVS and add one one these subs. You wont regret it for the price they will be almost impossible to beat.
For a receiver this Onkyo 709 is by far the best receiver for the price on the market. This leaves you plenty to spend on a display or projector and screen


----------



## ta75050

tonyvdb said:


> In wall/ ceiling speakers is a huge compromise in sound quality, I would highly suggest looking at this speaker package from SVS and add one one these subs. You wont regret it for the price they will be almost impossible to beat.
> For a receiver this Onkyo 709 is by far the best receiver for the price on the market. This leaves you plenty to spend on a display or projector and screen


The speakers you quoted are standalone not in-ceiling/in-wall speakers.


----------



## tonyvdb

Yes, but in-ceiling/in-wall are not going to preform very well and should be avoided if possible.


----------



## ta75050

tonyvdb said:


> Yes, but in-ceiling/in-wall are not going to preform very well and should be avoided if possible.


I guess I don't have much choice but to go with in ceiling/ in wall speakers.


----------



## ta75050

I am going to star power today and check out their speaker range. Does anybody any experience with Bose 791 in ceiling speakers.


----------



## tonyvdb

Other than being over priced for what you get they would be ok. You pay for the name more then the quality with Bose.


----------



## ta75050

I called their outlet, they have a pair for $ 539 factory renewed


----------



## tonyvdb

for $539 you can get better. I just need to find them. Someone else may also have some good suggestions, dont buy them trust me.


----------



## ta75050

I have not decided anything. Will check them out.
Besides Polk, kilpch, any other suggestions on brands.


----------



## tonyvdb

If your looking for really good quality these BA4830 speakers would be far better.


----------



## ta75050

Sounds great. Now I have Polk, kilpch, Boston acoustic to check out. Any other suggestions.


----------



## tonyvdb

These Infinity CS60RDTs would also be ok or these JBLs


----------



## chashint

There are many speakers to choose from.
Once you listen to some speakers tell us what you like or dislike.
The StarPower on the N Dallas Toll Road is the largest store.


----------



## ta75050

Update: from visit to star power
The sales person showed dcm, klipch speakers. Both were nice but he was very impressed with Martin Logan Helos 100 series. In his opinon, they are the best speakers with pivoted tweeters. For sub, he suggested surefire 10in.

Any ideas from the experts?

Also, what would u suggest for center channel to go with ML Helos 100


----------



## gdstupak

ta75050 said:


> Also, what would u suggest for center channel to go with ML Helos 100


When possible, it's usually best to get the exact same speaker model for all 3 front channels.


----------



## ta75050

1. How is the performance of ML Helos 100?
2. Is www.audioadvisor.com a trustable website? Helos 100 are available at $249 each.


----------



## ta75050

Does anybody has ideas about ML Dynamo 300 or Dynamo 700w? I am looking to get same brand sub as well to go along with ML Helos 100.


----------



## tonyvdb

Just a not you dont need to match the sub with the speakers. I would look at SVS for a sub. Best bang for buck out there.


----------



## ta75050

What svs model would u prefer to go with ml Helos 100? My room dimension were attached in earlier posts. I don't want a over kill


----------



## ta75050

Hello experts: looking to check if somebody has experience with ml Helos 100.

Thx


----------



## chashint

Did you listen to the speakers ?


----------



## chashint

OK I just checked Amazon and the Helos 100 goes for $499 each.
What did Star Power quote for them ?

If I was going to have in-ceiling left/right speakers I would get the same speaker for the center channel amd probaly just go ahead and get all 5 the same.

The Hsu sub that has been recommended or any of SVS subs would do a good job for you and give you much better low frequency response than a store bought subwoofer.


----------



## ta75050

chashint said:


> OK I just checked Amazon and the Helos 100 goes for $499 each.
> What did Star Power quote for them ?
> 
> If I was going to have in-ceiling left/right speakers I would get the same speaker for the center channel amd probaly just go ahead and get all 5 the same.
> 
> The Hsu sub that has been recommended or any of SVS subs would do a good job for you and give you much better low frequency response than a store bought subwoofer.


I got a quote for around $350+. Called a few other places, theres is buy one and get one on ML Helos 100. So in effect somebody can get 4 helos 100 for price of 2 ( $1000)

You suggested using all same set of speakers. What if I use ML Ticket as center channel? Would that be a big difference if using all 5 than using 4 and 1 center of same brand but different model.


----------



## tonyvdb

ta75050 said:


> What svs model would u prefer to go with ml Helos 100? My room dimension were attached in earlier posts. I don't want a over kill


The PB12NSD would be perfect for you.


----------



## chashint

I have not heard the Martin Logan speakers so I do not know how big of a difference there is between them, but the general rule of thumb is the best results are obtained when the front three speakers are the same speaker.
It is difficult for many people to accomplish this so the horizontal center channel is usually what is used.
Since you are pretty much set on the in-ceiling speakers I would make the front three the same.
I see no reason in-ceiling speakers would only be sold as pairs, but that does not mean they are available as singles.
If you can only get them in pairs go to a 6.1 channel system and use the 6th speaker as a single back speaker, it would be located about 3 feet behind the back seats on the same line as the center channel speaker.


----------



## chashint

tonyvdb said:


> The PB12NSD would be perfect for you.


For a smaller footprint check out the the PC12NSD
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/c...ypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=18&category_id=8


----------



## ta75050

Thx for all the advice. I am looking under $500 bucks for a sub. Pls advise


----------



## chashint

Stretch and get the Hsu VTF2-MK4.
It is very flexible with multiple operating modes and has very good low frequency extension.
It is something that will really help the speakers you are looking at.


----------



## gdstupak

chashint said:


> Stretch and get the Hsu VTF2-MK4.


+1
$519 (+$63shipping). Very worth it to save up for this.
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk4.html


----------



## ta75050

Ggreat.. Ok will get this one. Do u know of any retail stores that sell this item in dfw area. I'd like to see the unit, hear and make the decision.


----------



## gdstupak

HSU is only sold over the internet, no storefronts. This keeps the cost down for us.

Main speakers have differences in sound that make listening tests necessary before buying. When true subwoofers are made properly such as HSU or SVS, there isn't much of a difference between the sounds which would make you definitely like one over the other. Really, the only reason not to get this model is if you can afford one that is more expensive. If you can afford over $600 then I would say to get a more expensive HSU or SVS. But with a budget of $500, you can't go wrong with this HSU VTF2-mk4 model.


----------



## ta75050

Great. What is the return policy, warranty etc.


----------



## gdstupak

http://www.hsuresearch.com/


----------



## chashint

ta75050 said:


> Great. What is the return policy, warranty etc.


Good grief man look a few posts up and click the link that was provided.


----------



## ta75050

Yes, I apologise. That's what I need to do.


----------



## ta75050

I forgot to ask a very imp question. Since my receiver/blue ray player is going to in a adjacant room, the normal remote wont function as there is a wall between the media room and adjacanet room where av equiment is being kept. So what would be my alternatives for receiver.. i got a suggestion for Denon 2112 receiver earlier, but would it work with remote being in media room and receiver being in adjacent room.

Suggestion pls?


----------



## chashint

Go to Amazon and search for ir repeater.
It will bring up a big list you can select from.

With 330 reviews and 4.5 stars this one looks like a winner
http://www.amazon.com/Cables-To-Go-...TDZA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332682724&sr=8-1


----------



## ta75050

thanks a bunch. 
Is there alternatives with rfid to avoid any cables. In the ip repeater, there is still a cable going from the receiver to the repeaer box. That part may not look clean at all.

Just a thought. If there is no solution, then i guess I have to use this only.


----------



## chashint

There are many options but this is the consumer grade option I know of.
Works with Harmony 890, 1000 or 1100
http://www.logitech.com/en-us/remotes/accessories/devices/378


----------



## ta75050

1.I am looking to run hdmi wires thru the wall so that I can connect my blur ray with HDTV. So what kind of hdmi will I need? Is there a specific number of hdmi wire #.?

2. Somebody suggested in this thread I should get awg 12 or 14 wires for the speakers. What's the difference in them. Also I should let my electrician know to do ore-wiring with these awg or awg 14 wires.


----------



## gdstupak

ta75050 said:


> 2. Somebody suggested in this thread I should get awg 12 or 14 wires for the speakers. What's the difference in them. Also I should let my electrician know to do ore-wiring with these awg or awg 14 wires.


AWG is the thickness of the wire. The lower the number, the thicker the wire, so 12awg is thicker than 14awg wire.
The thickness of wire you need is determined by the length of wire you will use. The longer the wire run, the thicker the wire needs to be.
If the wire between the AVR and a speaker is up to 32', then 18awg is proper.
If the wire between the AVR and a speaker is up to 48', then 16awg is proper.
If the wire between the AVR and a speaker is up to 90', then 14awg is proper.
If the wire between the AVR and a speaker is up to 120', then 12awg is proper.
(These thickness/length stats are not carved in stone, there are many different theories with different thickness/length results).

It will not hurt to use speaker wire that is too thick. Most speaker runs are much less than 100', so for normal applications, 14awg is a good thickness to use for your whole system (some people will say to always use 12awg, some will say to always use 16awg). Don't confuse yourself by buying a roll of 18awg for front speakers, then buying a roll of 16awg or 14awg for the rear speakers. Keep it simple, use one thickness of wire.

A separate note about the type/cost of speaker wire. I believe speaker wire does not need to be special or exotic or expensive (others will disagree). Basic speaker wire from Wallyworld or Radio Shack works just as well as overpriced Monster brand wire. I use reels of 14awg 'lamp cord' from Radio Shack.


----------



## ta75050

Ok. That's great info. I should be good with 12 awg wire.

Also, is the hdmi cable std for all types. I mean to per-wire in walls to connect my tv and DVD or tv with receiver.?

I must appreciate this a great forum with bunch of folks who provide value addition.


----------



## gdstupak

ta75050 said:


> Also, is the hdmi cable std for all types.


I haven't kept up with all the latest specs and speeds, so hopefully someone more up-to-date will answer this.



ta75050 said:


> I mean to per-wire in walls to connect my tv and DVD or tv with receiver.?


I forgot to mention: If running wires inside wall cavities, this does require the wire to be 'in-wall rated' (for fire safety).


----------



## ta75050

Got it.. Thx a bunch for ur time.


----------



## ChirstineTan

ta75050 said:


> Hello Experts:
> I am a total newbie and looking to put together a basic plus HT for my new home. Here are my specific requirements. Right now, I dont have anything ( no tv, no blue ray etc)
> 
> 1. within $2000 ( tv not counted in this amount)
> 2. room dimension 14x15
> 3. have two step seating (just like theatre). first row person is around 6-7 ft from TV wall.
> 4. I prefer TV instead of projector & screen.
> 5. I prefer speakers that I can put on the wall ( not inside). Something small to medium size.
> 6. prefer 5.1 system as my room is small.
> 7. I have a small equipment closet outside the media room to keep all equipment.
> 8. my HT will be more for movies either thru blue ray player or netflix, amazon etc.
> 
> So in need suggestions as to:
> 1. what tv size appropriate for my size room. Pls suggest specific brands
> 2. what speakers, receiver, sub-woofers, pls suggest specific brands and what place to buy ( in usa). I am bsed in dallas, TX.
> 3. Any other suggestions that you think can help me bring $ down.



You check out the quotations with Home Theatre Entertainment


----------



## chashint

Yes the wire needs to be in-wall rated.


----------



## chashint

The subwoofer wire needs to be shielded coax with RCA connectors.


----------



## ta75050

1. Any idea on what infra red repeater is the best. I plan to prewire this also. My av equipment is going to be in adjacent room. There a lot of them available but reviews have been mixed.

So summary:
1. Helos 100 x 5
2. Hsu research sub
3. Denon 2112 receiver ( does this has IR port?)
4. 12 or 14 awg speaker wire ( in wall rated)
5. Shielded coax with rac connector for sub ( in wall rated).

Is there anything else that I need to add to setup.


----------



## ta75050

Hi:
As an alternative to IR Repeater, does anybody has any experience with URC remote?

Pls suggest.


----------



## Technosponge

I run my system on wifi through apps available on apple devices as well as android devices. Will something like that work as apposed to a dedicated ir remote with repeater?


----------



## ta75050

Ya. Why not as long as I don't have to cut/drill. 

Pls suggest.


----------



## ta75050

Hi: I finally got Onkyo TX709 receiver yesterday. I got it hooked with my tv, LG blue ray.

Both the TV, LG blue ray DVD are hooked thru the receiver by HDMI cable.
LG Blue Ray {HDMI} --> Receiver
Receiver {HDMI} --- TV


Does anybody has any experience with iphone app for this receiver. I could change modes on the receiver, switch off from iphone app but couldnt do other functions such as pause, play from the iphone app.

Does anybody has any experience if this could be done?


----------

