# Amp/Receiver for ELT525M



## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Hi,

My first post here! I recently ordered a pair of AV123 ELT525Ms, which should get to me this week, but I don't have anything to power them with. I'm having the hardest time deciding what's best for me.

*First:* The ELT's are going to be hooked up primarily to my Macbook Pro, which has optical outputs. Would getting a receiver with a DAC (such as the Harman Kardon 3490) be worth the ~$300 I'd pay for it? I mostly listen to MP3s at 320kbps (I've tried the MP3 vs. FLAC tests, and I really can't tell any difference).

*Second: *I've searched and asked and searched and asked, and people keep on telling me "the ELT525M's are inefficient speakers and need a lot of power, so I shouldn't get anything under 100wpc." However, I know that the Gizmo that TCA sells puts out 25wpc, and awhile back there was a special with the ELT's and the Gizmo. I'm a bit confused at this though...and was wondering if I could get some clarification! If the Gizmo is rated at 25wpc at 4 ohms, how does it provide adequate power for the ELT525M's? I'm not looking for ear-shattering sound levels, but I do need music to fill a 14ft x 15ft room.

*Subwoofer?* I'll be adding in a small sub in the future, probably an AV123 X-Sub or the upcoming Scamp-8 (or, if you guys have recommendations for a small sub ~$100-$200, please chime in!)

Of course, I'd like to spend the least amount of money possible... and nothing over ~$300 street price. Stuff that I've considered:
Harman Kardon 3490 $295
120wpc, Built in DAC
*Thoughts:* Most expensive of the lot...is the DAC + power worth it?
TCA Gizmo $111
25wpc
*Thoughts:* Really good reviews, I just don't get the WPC rating. How does it compare to the others?
Onkyo TX-8555 $190 (refurb pricing)
100wpc
*Thoughts:* For the most part, similar to the HK3490, with the exception of the lack of DAC.
Sony STRDE197 $127
100wpc
*Thoughts:* I've heard good reviews of this for a budget. If I was going to connect a sub to this, though, it'd have to be through speaker level inputs.

Thanks a lot!


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

Welcome to the forum.


I don't have any direct experience with any of the models you listed, but even with that, I feel confident in saying the H/K will probably be superior. Unless something has changed with them, they have always had a nice smooth amp in their receivers.

As far as using the gizmo....this is enough power for the ELT if you're sitting close enough. A lot of folks are using this as their desktop system.


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

*SPL calculator for determining amp needs*

Welcome to TCA.

You can use the *SPL calculator* - link
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html

That will help you determine your SPL need/want based on distance, speaker sensitivity, etc.

If I recall correctly the Gizmo is only 18W/ch into 8 ohms.
That said most people only listen to speakers using a few watts of power.

Consider that 83 dB is relatively loud.
If a speaker is *83 dB @ 1W/m* (ELT 525M) then that means the following:

- if you are listening at 1 meter (~3ft) at 83 dB (pretty loud) you are using 1 watt of power.

You need to double watts for each 3 dB (approx. minimal increment you can detect) increase in loudness.

There are some examples people can probably find of the Gizmo driving really big full range speakers.
Is that advised for watching the Iron Man blu-ray in a large HT room, no.
Let us know what you think.

Good luck,

Mike


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks for the replies!

Mike, let me get this straight. If I need to double the watts to get 86db, that means I'll need 4 watts to get 89, 8 watts for 92, and so on? So, the gizmo (18w at 8 ohms) will pretty much let me get to 95-96db?

If that's correct...I finally understand how all this works (thank you thank you!)! It just seems that those 120wpc receivers look superfluous now...


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

blackzarg said:


> Thanks for the replies!
> 
> Mike, let me get this straight. If I need to double the watts to get 86db, that means I'll need 4 watts to get 89, 8 watts for 92, and so on? So, the gizmo (18w at 8 ohms) will pretty much let me get to 95-96db?
> 
> If that's correct...I finally understand how all this works (thank you thank you!)! It just seems that those 120wpc receivers look superfluous now...


I believe so.

A couple of comments:
- AV receivers that list 120wpc are often only measured with 1-2 channels operating. 
- If you are using a receiver for HT work (eg 5 or 7 channels), then you want to know what the "all channels driven" rating is.
- The 120wpc (or 200 or 500, ...) do have a use. Imagine if you are in a large home theater with room treatments that absorb sound. You also may need "headroom" for dynamic music or movies. So, big amps do have a purpose.
- If you look at that SPL calculator link it shows you the ear damage you sustain at various listening levels. Most people don't and shouldn't listen to sustained high SPL.

If you are using your amp for an office/computer or even small room environment, you should be fine with minimal amps.

I hope that helps.:salute:

Good luck.

Mike


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks a lot Mike!


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

Also, keep in mind that those SPL numbers for the efficiency rating are taken at a distance of 1 meter. Point sources lose approximately 6 db every time you double the measuring distance. So that 83 dB sensitivity number is 77 at 2 meters and 71 at 4 meters. 

And as Mike said, many times the wattages are not as truthful as we would like.

So at a distance of 2 meters you would need to have 64 watts to acheive 95 dB. A peak in the material of 9 db would require 512 watts!! Realistically, the ELT probably won't play that loud, but you can see how the power requirements can really add up.


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Sorry....one more noob question....

Do you guys think the presence of a DAC is a significant change, if most of my files are 320kpbs VBR MP3 files (ripped with iTunes)?

Thanks!


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## corndog71 (Jan 28, 2009)

Personally, I would go with a newer Onkyo receiver costing as high as you can go comfortably. Using the digital out from your mac will be an improvement from your mac's built-in dac. The reason why you couldn't hear a difference between formats is probably because your playback chain simply wasn't revealing it to you. This is the downfall of cheap electronics.

An even better option would be to save your money and stretch as far as you can to get an even better receiver such as the Outlaw RR2150. This also has a USB input as well.


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## wesley63 (May 25, 2008)

There's a sale on RR2150s over at the Outlaw site.

Jim


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## Mep (Jan 28, 2009)

Not that I peddle TC stuff but their dac man is coming out soon. Dacman+Gizmo will do what you want out of a full receiver at about the same cost but taking up much less room. Since this is for a computer space may very well be important.

The Gizmo is perfect for near field. I had my 525/gizmo combo hooked up to my tv before moving it to my computer and it worked alright in that setting. I had to nearly max out the gizmo to get enough power to the speakers. Most amps don't sound as clean when fully maxed out so the combo wasn't as impressive on the tv as it is on the desk. I can hear most sources at the lowest setting with the gizmo at my desk. At higher settings it gets too loud. I generally use it at 1/4th power. So being very close to the speakers really means you don't need much power at all.

Hope that helps.


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Mep said:


> Not that I peddle TC stuff but their dac man is coming out soon. Dacman+Gizmo will do what you want out of a full receiver at about the same cost but taking up much less room. Since this is for a computer space may very well be important.
> 
> The Gizmo is perfect for near field. I had my 525/gizmo combo hooked up to my tv before moving it to my computer and it worked alright in that setting. I had to nearly max out the gizmo to get enough power to the speakers. Most amps don't sound as clean when fully maxed out so the combo wasn't as impressive on the tv as it is on the desk. I can hear most sources at the lowest setting with the gizmo at my desk. At higher settings it gets too loud. I generally use it at 1/4th power. So being very close to the speakers really means you don't need much power at all.
> 
> Hope that helps.


Thanks Mep. Sigh....decisions decisions! I'd like to get the Gizmo, but I also want DAC, but with the addition of the DAC Man, It'd be a little bit under $400, which, in that case, I might as well spring for the HK3490 for $300, or an AVR-154 for $210. 

I feel bad though! I love all your responses (and this forum pwns the AVSforum because it's not super cluttered, and you guys are all helpful and nice), but now I feel almost obligated to order the Gizmo. I'll make up my mind sometime...thanks for dealing with my indecisiveness!

In regards to corndog, I also took at look at a refurb Onkyo TX-SR506 for $200 since it comes with a built in DAC (I want to give the HK a try though - Nothing against Onkyo; I got a TX-SR876 back at home and it sounds great, but that's for the family)


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

blackzarg said:


> Thanks Mep. Sigh....decisions decisions! I'd like to get the Gizmo, but I also want DAC, but with the addition of the DAC Man, It'd be a little bit under $400, which, in that case, I might as well spring for the HK3490 for $300, or an AVR-154 for $210.
> 
> I feel bad though! I love all your responses (and this forum pwns the AVSforum because it's not super cluttered, and you guys are all helpful and nice), but now I feel almost obligated to order the Gizmo. I'll make up my mind sometime...thanks for dealing with my indecisiveness!
> 
> In regards to corndog, I also took at look at a refurb Onkyo TX-SR506 for $200 since it comes with a built in DAC (I want to give the HK a try though - Nothing against Onkyo; I got a TX-SR876 back at home and it sounds great, but that's for the family)


Don't feel obligated to order Gizmo!! Craig (the owner) has said many times that this forum is open to everyone....not just those who spend with him. ****...I don't have any TCA products, and this is my main hang out. 

I still think out of your listed choices, you'd be best served by the H/K...


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Blackzarg - That HK is a terrific set up. As other guys have said, Gizmo is great for an amp that fits almost anywhere. Without Gizmo, we would not have good tunes in our kitchen. 

For my exercise room, I use a NAD C-372 integrated amp, because it fits there. 

If you have the room, the HK is a great choice. 

As Jason says, we are all friends here. 

Get what you want, just be prepared to post pics. :huge:


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## django1 (Jan 28, 2009)

I have an the 525s and power them with a vintage Marantz 20 watt per channel amp and am very happy with it. I don't know your volume preferences but I don't feel I'm lacking any power. Also, when you do get a sub it will take some of the load off of the amp as the the bass goes to the sub and the sub has it's own amp. I have a couple of tri path amps ( the same type as Gizmo) and they are both better sounding than my 110 watt Denon avr. Not as loud but better sounding... Decent dac here:







They have an American address for shipping to you guys. I don't know a thing about the HK...

Do you have speakers now? If the 525s are an upgrade for you you are in for a treat. As you upgrade your stuff it really does show the limits of the source material. There are some CDs I can't listen to anymore, they sound so bad. But the good stuff sounds:cloud9:


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## Mep (Jan 28, 2009)

Hmm, so what will the DacMan/Gizmo package cost?

The Dacman could very well out perform the receivers you are looking at on the DAC side of things. The gizmo won't have the juice of course but the thing is tiny and quick to use. It really is perfect for a desk set up. I was considering going the refurbished AVR route for my desk set up but the gizmo combo got me. Glad I did. Just need a good DAC now.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

Also, the cool thing about separates is that you can upgrade one piece at a time and mix and match.


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Mep said:


> Hmm, so what will the DacMan/Gizmo package cost?
> 
> The Dacman could very well out perform the receivers you are looking at on the DAC side of things. The gizmo won't have the juice of course but the thing is tiny and quick to use. It really is perfect for a desk set up. I was considering going the refurbished AVR route for my desk set up but the gizmo combo got me. Glad I did. Just need a good DAC now.


Hmmmm ... $279 + $139 is $418. 

A good guess will be $379 for the pair delivered. I have to check with the board of directors, though. Hang on, I will be right back. 


:smoke1:
:begging:
oke:
:crowd:
:burgerking:

Ok ... The board has voted. The package price for Dac Man and Gizmo V1.1 will be $379. 

Of course, Gizmo V1.0M and Dac Man will run $348 delivered after the $50 credit.


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## snowmanick (Oct 16, 2007)

craigsub said:


> I have to check with the board of directors, though. Hang on, I will be right back.
> 
> .....
> 
> Ok ... The board has voted. The package price for Dac Man and Gizmo V1.1 will be $379.


I think you spend too much time in meetings :raspberry:


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

SnowmaNick said:


> I think you spend too much time in meetings :raspberry:


Anyone who has ever suffered through one of my meetings would agree. :dizzy:


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## mannoiaj (Jun 23, 2009)

FWIW, I have owned a gizmo, and A/B/C'd HK3485, denon 3805, and onkyo 805 using Ref .5's, x-sls classic, and rocket 450's in house with only my wifes help. Nothing scientific whatsoever. 

The gizmo sounded just as good as the HK3485 at low volumes to my wife and I. Problem was, the room I was using it in is a 24 X 15... so we had to be careful how loud we turned it up and have a couple kids that like knobs as well. I decided that I needed more power in my situation and my source was also giving me problems with the gizmo. I will most likely be purchasing a gizmo 1.1 in the near future for my ref .5 computer setup. Right now, I have a big ol' old school denon 2 channel receiver hooked up to a dac then going to my computer and it really takes up too much room, and doesn't sound as good as the gizmo to be honest. 

The Onkyo 805 and denon 3805 sounded pretty similar in a sighted test level matched to my wife and I. We noticed a few differences. The onkyo seemed to have a bit "thinner" of a presentation but the separation of instruments seemed better. The denon seemed a bit warmer and less analytical/sterile. We seemed to like the onkyo better for certain music and denon for others. Well, the HK3485 was just a step below these $800 powerhouse receivers. It had the warmth of the denon for sure, but lacked the dynamics of the two. I don't really get this as the power is pretty much on par with both receivers, it just didn't have the tightness. At any rate, it was really close and we tested all three blind... and we didn't pick them right at all. There differences between the denon 3805, onkyo 805, and HK 3485 were so negligible that we could not discern them when blind tested. They all sounded too similar. 

I would say that you should go with the HK3490. It does well (its older sibling the 3485) with all of the speaker I have tested them on including 4 ohm Linn Nexus speakers and 4 ohm Magnepans. I have never had an issue with it and I did buy it refurbished. It does not have a DAC built in so I can't comment on that... but I would assume its not the greatest DAC, but will work fine just like all other receiver dacs... nothing special but useful for sure. I think that for your room, you need a bit of power to be happy and safe. I would get the gizmo for a different application where you definitely don't need alot of power, as it sounds great... just won't fill a large area. 

The onkyo is probably a decent unit as well... but I've never heard it, only HT onkyo receivers. If you don't need a built in DAC, it will probably do just fine and save you a bit of coin over the HK. I doubt the difference in sound will be that great. They will probably sound the **** same in your room with the ELT's. Either one will sound like ELT's... amped nicely :angel: imo. 

Also, maybe take a look at audiogon for some integrated amps and 2 channel receivers. You may be able to find a great deal on a NAD, Cambridge, etc... right now that many would argue are a step up from the mass produced HK, Onkyo, and denon's. Good luck :thumbsup:


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Thanks for the reply Jethro! That was very informative... I think I'm going to go the HK route - but I _do_ want to get some TCA stuff once they get here....like the Scamp sub!

Are you the Jethro that MLS mentions in his emails (I think he mentions a Jethro, at least)?


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## Ray3 (Feb 4, 2008)

If you opt for the HK, go to their site & look around. They have their own refurb shop for purchasing online.


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## mannoiaj (Jun 23, 2009)

blackzarg said:


> Thanks for the reply Jethro! That was very informative... I think I'm going to go the HK route - but I _do_ want to get some TCA stuff once they get here....like the Scamp sub!
> 
> Are you the Jethro that MLS mentions in his emails (I think he mentions a Jethro, at least)?


yah... thats me :his:


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Ray3 said:


> If you opt for the HK, go to their site & look around. They have their own refurb shop for purchasing online.


Yup! Planning on buying mine online for sure!



Jethro said:


> yah... thats me :his:


Haha...cool...I know a celebrity.


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## corndog71 (Jan 28, 2009)

After thinking about it some more, I would actually recommend getting the best amp you can buy first. Save up and get a dac later. Dacs change but you will always need a good solid amp.

NAD, Rotel, Outlaw, Cambridge Audio, used or new. If you care about sound quality, stay away from mass market receivers.


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## soloz2 (Feb 13, 2008)

I've used my ELT525M's with my Gizmo and it does just fine for nearfield listening. I never tried powering them in my living room. I use a Marantz SR7001 for my ELT525 5.0 setup. I have two ULW10's filling in the low end. Just today my neighbor came over all self righteous because apparently his counters were vibrating while I was watching Max Payne. (I've got a few choice words for him right now) constantly plays his music and movies loud enough to disrupt the entire building and tried to make me out to be the arsehole. :dizzy: This means war!:boom:


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

Jethro said:


> yah... thats me :his:


Hey Jethro, how come you don't have a title? Apparently you aren't loud mouthed and opinionated enough.


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## django1 (Jan 28, 2009)

dvenardos said:


> Hey Jethro, how come you don't have a title? Apparently you aren't loud mouthed and opinionated enough.


What do you suggest?


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

dvenardos said:


> Hey Jethro, how come you don't have a title? Apparently you aren't loud mouthed and opinionated enough.


He does now ... :boom:


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## lanceb1b (Nov 30, 2008)

craigsub said:


> He does now ... :boom:


Lol :biglaugh:


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Lance ... as do you. :mr-t:


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## lanceb1b (Nov 30, 2008)

craigsub said:


> Lance ... as do you. :mr-t:


Nap-of-the-earth (abbreviated NOE) is very low-level type of flight course used to avoid detection and attack by an enemy when in a high-threat environment.

Not low enough, it would seem.


:tanks alot:


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Lanceb1b said:


> Nap-of-the-earth (abbreviated NOE) is very low-level type of flight course used to avoid detection and attack by an enemy when in a high-threat environment.
> 
> Not low enough, it would seem.
> 
> ...


Well ... you could have been LanceB2 ... :biglaugh:


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## lanceb1b (Nov 30, 2008)

craigsub said:


> Well ... you could have been LanceB2 ... :biglaugh:


Or worse according to Jason!
:good:


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

Lanceb1b said:


> Or worse according to Jason!
> :good:


Be careful.....we'll see if your popularity changes tomorrow....you may still get the new title.:biglaugh:


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

Heh, okay, apoligies for annoying the **** out of you guys with my changes of mind..I'm still teeter tottering over the Gizmo vs. HK, but now I'm leaning towards the Gizmo v1.0M because I can get $50 the Scamp when it comes out =)

So...new question... If I decide in the future that I need more juice, would I be able to use the Gizmo as a preamp with a Harman Kardon AVR-154 or 254? Would that be a waste of a Gizmo?

Also, I've been trying to figure out.. is it possible to use a preamp with the AVR-154? It doesn't have preamp outs, but it has a subwoofer out, which, I think can be used as a preamp out?

Thanks,

Jon


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Jon - Neither product will work as a pre-amp. I do have plans on a more powerful amp in the future, but for now, it is totally vaporware. 

Before taking on that project, we have to finish SS-10, Scamp-8, another speaker slotted below WAF-1's (and designed to be a "perfect" match for Scamp-8), our higher end ribbon monitors and finally a high output subwoofer that reaches into the mid teens. 

If I had to guess, I would call it about a year. We will also have a trade up program for Gizmo owners at the time. 

On a side note, I am going to run some tests next week with a Gizmo and a pair of WAF-1's, ELT's and Ascend 340's to see what kind of SPL each can deliver in a medium sized room.


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## Mep (Jan 28, 2009)

The DACMan should serve well enough as a preamp in addition to a USB DAC. For computer use they will be a killer combo. The Gizmo is more than enough to fill a bedroom sized room.


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

*Pulled the trigger...*

On a Harman Kardon AVR-247 refurb from the HK outlet for $205 shipped. That was way within my budget! DAC, 50wpc, and preamp outs if I need more power. It's an older model, but besides the video processing, which I don't really need, it's pretty much the same as the AVR-254.

Now I am just waiting on the sub now! The money I saved from getting this over the 3490 will hopefully allow me to get the Sasquatch-10. Yay!

Thanks guys for all your help! I'll post pics once everything is set up. Thank you, thank you, thank you!


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Most excellent choice. We will hold you to those pics.


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

*Yay it's here! Pics =)*

And....here are the promised pics!

I know, the monitors are kinda near the wall, which is bad for rear-vented speakers, but I really don't have anywhere else to put them right now until my roommate and I get singes next year... so I'll have to live with it.

The HK looks absolutely goregeous! I'm glad the silver looks actually darker than it does in Google images - much more classier =)

I can definitely hear the bass notes coming from the ELT525Ms, but I can't "feel" them. Next item on the agenda: Scamp or Sasquatch. =)

Thanks for your help guys!


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)




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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

Nice setup. sit back and enjoy.


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

engtaz said:


> Nice setup. sit back and enjoy.


Thanks! Sounding good so far =)

Just wondering...is it normal to not be able to control your volume through the computer when using a digital coaxial cable? My MBP shows the volume as unavailable, and I can only control the audio through the receiver.

One more thing... I guess iTunes can't decode 96/24 FLACs or Apple Lossless files? I got the HD Track sampler and it plays fine through VLC, but when I try importing it into iTunes I get some funky noises.

Thanks!


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## Mep (Jan 28, 2009)

Win amp works fine. The receiver should have a remote so controlling the volume should be easy enough.

Nice simple set up btw.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

blackzarg said:


> One more thing... I guess iTunes can't decode 96/24 FLACs or Apple Lossless files?


iTunes does Apple Lossless but not FLAC.
For ripping FLAC on the mac check out Max and Play for playback. I have used Max, but not play (not currently using a mac as my main computer).
http://sbooth.org/Max/
http://sbooth.org/Play/


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

dvenardos said:


> iTunes does Apple Lossless but not FLAC.
> For ripping FLAC on the mac check out Max and Play for playback. I have used Max, but not play (not currently using a mac as my main computer).
> http://sbooth.org/Max/
> http://sbooth.org/Play/


I got iTunes to play FLAC files through iTunes using Fluke, but when I downloaded the 96/24 HDTracks FLAC files, they don't play at all through iTunes. I'll give Play a try. It's not really a dealbreaker for me, I was just curious. Thanks though!


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## dyrmaker83 (Feb 12, 2008)

blackzarg said:


> I got iTunes to play FLAC files through iTunes using Fluke, but when I downloaded the 96/24 HDTracks FLAC files, they don't play at all through iTunes. I'll give Play a try. It's not really a dealbreaker for me, I was just curious. Thanks though!


FYI - I use XLD to convert FLAC files to apple lossless. It's fast, and easy to use (and free!). I know that converting files isn't preferable, but I figure that I'm not losing any data going from FLAC to lossless.


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## dyrmaker83 (Feb 12, 2008)

I would like to know if anyone has used a micro receiver like the Onkyo CS-325 to power ELT's. From the comments here it sounds like it would work, and I don't have desk space to use a regular HK receiver.


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## blackzarg (Apr 19, 2009)

dyrmaker83 said:


> I would like to know if anyone has used a micro receiver like the Onkyo CS-325 to power ELT's. From the comments here it sounds like it would work, and I don't have desk space to use a regular HK receiver.


Should work! The Gizmo is rated at 18wpc at 8ohms, so 14wpc for the Onkyo shouldn't be too different for nearfield. I was _this_ close to getting a Gizmo, but because the HK had a built in DAC (and I had the space), I went for that instead.

Good luck! Have you already used your ELTs? Or did you just order them?


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

dyrmaker83 said:


> FYI - I use XLD to convert FLAC files to apple lossless. It's fast, and easy to use (and free!). I know that converting files isn't preferable, but I figure that I'm not losing any data going from FLAC to lossless.


Once you are in a lossless format you can convert to your hearts content. Converting from one lossless format to another doesn't lose anything.


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

thanks for letting me know about XLD.....I've been using Fluke, and it's kind of a bandaid. With XLD, I can convert files to an apple friendly format that I can put on the iphone.

Also, I like being able to use the EQ on iTunes for some songs, and it is not possible for Fluke conversions..


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## dyrmaker83 (Feb 12, 2008)

Jason said:


> thanks for letting me know about XLD.....I've been using Fluke, and it's kind of a bandaid. With XLD, I can convert files to an apple friendly format that I can put on the iphone.
> 
> Also, I like being able to use the EQ on iTunes for some songs, and it is not possible for Fluke conversions..


Yeah I tried Fluke too, but then I found out they still don't work on iPod. That's when I found XLD.


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## dyrmaker83 (Feb 12, 2008)

blackzarg said:


> Should work! The Gizmo is rated at 18wpc at 8ohms, so 14wpc for the Onkyo shouldn't be too different for nearfield. I was _this_ close to getting a Gizmo, but because the HK had a built in DAC (and I had the space), I went for that instead.
> 
> Good luck! Have you already used your ELTs? Or did you just order them?


Yes, I've had the ELT's for some time but haven't listend to them yet! They were part of the ELT HT package, but I'm just using the center and towers (awesome, BTW). I thought I was going to use them as surrounds, but now I'm not sure I want wires and stands in our (1-bedroom) apartment. I have powered computer speakers now, so I figure the ELT's and an amp would be a major upgrade. I have a Sonic T-amp in the closet too that I'm going to try, but adding a subwoofer to it is complicated.

I have a DAC coming to me, so that's not a selling point with the small Onkyo. I know a Gizmo would sound great, but I'm not a huge fan of the ergonomics and digital display (stupid, I know). There was a guy on the AV123 forum that raved about his little Onkyo receiver, so it's always been in the back of my mind. Plus, $120 on Accessories4less isn't bad either.


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## dyrmaker83 (Feb 12, 2008)

So I reorganized my desktop yesterday, and hooked up the ELT's to the T-amp. Holy sh*t they sound great! I'm a self described bass-head, but at near field the bass is pretty adequate, if not impressive. It was slightly boomy when I had them on top of pieces of packing foam, but I had some of the isonode feet that I'm using now, and it's slightly better.

The t-amp has plenty of power, and the sound stage is fantastic.


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

wesley63 said:


> There's a sale on RR2150s over at the Outlaw site.
> 
> Jim


Wow I just read all of the Pro Reveiws on this product. Sounds like a winner.


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