# About to Upgrade to LS6's and need advise on Integrated Amp



## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

We have made all the other household purchases and it's time to start building the system. New House, Car, Windows, Kitchen, Bathroom.

Over the next 4 months I plan on pulling the plug on a pair of LS6. In preparation I would like to buy a high quality Integrated Amp to power these beasts. They will be used 80% for Music. Here is what I have landed on to date

Jungson JA88B-09 Class A - 80 Watts
Wyred 4 Sound W4S STI 500 Class D Amp - 500 Watts
NAD M Series Class A/B 150watts 
Jolida/Melody Something Tube (Never owned a tube amp.)

I'm not quite sure what type of amp works the best for these speakers. I've heard the Wyred 4 Sound amps with LS9's and they are extremly clean and quiet. They might be a little clinical but what I heard was excellent. Could have been the x-over set up.

I don't want to spend more than $3K. That rules out Dodd.


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## HughACA (Aug 25, 2010)

Take a drive down to LA and I'll let you listen to LS6 with Onix XIA-160 Reference Dual Mono Amp.


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

I'll be down there for some family business on an upcoming weekend. Would you be opposed to a sat or sun listen. I'll be in Buena Park or overnighting in Hermosa Beach.. Where can I find some info on these? Will they and a good Preamp fit under my 3K threshhold?

Thanks for the response.


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## HughACA (Aug 25, 2010)

Sat or Sun is fine, just let me know ahead.

No Pre needed since it's an integrated amp.

I am comparing them to my Joule Electra VZN-100 as we speak.

I am about 1 hour east of LA on the 10 or 210.

PS: John Casler is your dealer but you can listen for yourself at my place.


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

Thanks for the gracious invitation. I appreciate it.

Is this a tube amp? Is this a melody type of product like the SP3?

I noticed some other Integrateds from Onix when I googled.. Just the A60?

Where can I read up on it?
Where's the Onix Forum so to speak. It just might be here at Tweak City.

Riverside/San Berdoo?


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## SUMMIT AV (Jan 28, 2010)

Cheeseboy said:


> I'll be down there for some family business on an upcoming weekend. Would you be opposed to a sat or sun listen. I'll be in Buena Park or overnighting in Hermosa Beach.. Where can I find some info on these? Will they and a good Preamp fit under my 3K threshhold?
> 
> Thanks for the response.


Hi Cheeseboy,

Yes, I am Hugh's *CA dealer*, and also his *Trainer *(Strength Training) and he loves to audition equipment on the weekends since that is when he is supposed to train :yes:

Not to worry I'll just pump him up 2 x as much the following week:hissyfit: (hup one, hup two)

*-I-----I-*

I'm in Century City, but HUGH has the amp you want to hear. PM or e-mail me if there is anything I can answer or help with.

You are in for a sweet surprise. That amp is something special.

Here is a photo:


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## SUMMIT AV (Jan 28, 2010)

Or maybe you like the "rear view"?


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

Ah, thanks but I'm a straight leg man. 

Interesting cosmetics. 
Onix has a great reputation. I feel that with all the juice given the line by AV123 there would be more about you guys available for mass consumption. Where are you hiding this stuff? 

If it makes the LS's sing I'm on board. 

I would never rule out something presented by this group. 

Remote? Amp type? Cost? Why No Pre out? HT pass through? 

Can you send a spec sheet?


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

Cheeseboy said:


> Thanks for the gracious invitation. I appreciate it.
> 
> Is this a tube amp? Is this a melody type of product like the SP3?
> 
> ...


In case you didn't already guess from the pictures, it's a Solid State class A/B dual mono integrated. Very beefy 160wpc into 8ohms.

I have the amp, but no LS6's to try it with.  Somebody in ohio with LS6's want to get together and test it out?


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

that's a looker for sure.

Didn't know Casler was part of your crew Hugh....cool.


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

Summit AV, any relationship with Summit Electric here in Santa Rosa. They are invested in Home AV installation in a big way.


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

Wooferus,

Good luck on you helping me out. There's nothing like a second opinion.

Hearing is believing. I have to get to LA.


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## HughACA (Aug 25, 2010)

I am in Rancho Cucamonga.

A professional review will be published soon.

Drop me a pm.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

I haven't heard these, but with Danny soundly endorsing them they are worthy of consideration, plus you get the Dodd magic.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76620.msg725840#msg725840
http://store.virtueaudio.com/product-p/vrtu-ma-ibm5001-pbf-1.htm

You ruled out Dodd, but actually you can get his two new products for $2K.
http://doddaudio.com/BatteryPoweredTubeBufferPreamp.aspx
http://doddaudio.com/battery_powered_amp.aspx

Also, have you heard of Danny's V1?
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72093.0


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

Interesting concept. What I liked about the Wyred amp was the absolute quiet. The noise floor was down on the ground. It was loaded with power. Tube Buffer eh. Sounds like a good idea.

Would a 15 watt tube amp be able to power the 6's. I was thinking more about the mono blocks from Dodd. 

I really like the LS speakers. I've been able to sit down and just listen to both the 9's and 6's. I'm always getting sidetracked. I like the dynamics on the LS.


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## se-riously (Mar 6, 2009)

Cheeseboy said:


> Interesting concept. What I liked about the Wyred amp was the absolute quiet. The noise floor was down on the ground. It was loaded with power. Tube Buffer eh. Sounds like a good idea.
> 
> Would a 15 watt tube amp be able to power the 6's. I was thinking more about the mono blocks from Dodd.
> 
> I really like the LS speakers. I've been able to sit down and just listen to both the 9's and 6's. I'm always getting sidetracked. I like the dynamics on the LS.


How about this from Danny directly? Last price for the amps themselves is $2800 shipped.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=65521.0


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## SUMMIT AV (Jan 28, 2010)

Cheeseboy said:


> Ah, thanks but I'm a straight leg man.
> 
> Interesting cosmetics.
> Onix has a great reputation. I feel that with all the juice given the line by AV123 there would be more about you guys available for mass consumption. Where are you hiding this stuff?
> ...


Basic Specs:

*Power Output *160W per channel @ 8 Ohms 
*Frequency Response *10hz-50khz (-1db) 
*Signal to Noise Ratio *90db (A Weighted) 
*THD at Rated Power *0.003% (3W/8 Ohms) 
*Function Crosstalk *>80db (1khz) 
*Damping Factor *TBA 
*Line Input Sensitivity *180mV 
*Toroidal Transformer *2 x 300VA 
*Motor Potentiometer *ALPS 50KA x 2 
*Op-AMP *OP42 
*Power Consumption *TBA 
*Dimensions* (W x H x D): 18.1" x 5.5" x 16.5" 
Weight 67 lbs

In general use the "tape loop" should be able to be used as a HT pass thru


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## SUMMIT AV (Jan 28, 2010)

Cheeseboy said:


> Summit AV, any relationship with Summit Electric here in Santa Rosa. They are invested in Home AV installation in a big way.


What? They are using my name?:crazy:

No,* SUMMIT *is a rather common company name and my Audio and HT company uses the same "*ANCHOR*" word as my Fitness and Conditioning company (*SUMMIT Fitness*). Being in the HT, Audio, and Exercise Equipment business, gets me into a LOT of *MAN CAVES*.


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

SUMMIT AV said:


> In general use the "tape loop" should be able to be used as a HT pass thru


Hadn't thought of that. Good call. :thumbsup:


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

Cheeseboy said:


> Would a 15 watt tube amp be able to power the 6's.


Danny would know, why don't you shoot him off an email he is intimately familiar with the Dodd gear? With 90db sensitivity I would think the quality of amplification would be more important than the power output.


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

I've been known to shake the walls. Mrs Cheese is a rocker and will have all 15 watts in her lap the first time she fires it up. 

I guess good sound with some huevoes is the ticket for us. The big boy Dodds would work. Hello Danny. 

I'm going to visit Mr Hugh in LA and give the Onix a good solid listen. Summit AV is giving the Onix integrated some very high marks. I've heard the Wyred and now for the Onix. 

Will 160 watts of A/B power make the LS6's sing like Aretha? We'll find out soon enough. This is such a great place to ask a qustion about audio equipment. I am truly blessed.

Thanks Craig.


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## HughACA (Aug 25, 2010)

+1 to Craig for allowing us a place to hang.


Cheeseboy said:


> I've been known to shake the walls. Mrs Cheese is a rocker and will have all 15 watts in her lap the first time she fires it up.
> 
> I guess good sound with some huevoes is the ticket for us. The big boy Dodds would work. Hello Danny.
> 
> ...


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

Cheeseboy said:


> I've been known to shake the walls.


:rock::rock::rock::rock:




Hugh said:


> +1 to Craig for allowing us a place to hang.


Amen to that! Still my fav forum....


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## etcarroll (Mar 17, 2008)

Hugh works out???????????????

Seriously.................?

And he lives in a place called Rancho Cucamungo??????

C'mon, seriously???????


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

If Mr. Cheese makes a date of it how about I swing by too (if I don't have the kids)? I would love to hear the LS-6 and your new integrated.


Hugh said:


> +1 to Craig for allowing us a place to hang.


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## arthurs (Jan 28, 2009)

etcarroll said:


> Hugh works out???????????????
> 
> Seriously.................?
> 
> ...


RC is a beautiful area, and Hugh has a very beautiful home with lots of beautiful audio jewelry for sure! But I would need to hear from Hugh on the workout as I couldn't figure out how he would fit it in between smokes and coffee and red! :woo:

As for power, I subscribe to the more is better school when it comes to the LS....and not just watts rating. Your room size factors in as well, in an average size room the 15W Dodd, which is absolutely terrific sounding, might be a bit underpowered to really drive those speakers, I had them here and loved them but ran out of steam. I've also had the Onix here in my system, and it acquitted itself quite well and is definitely worth a listen at Hugh's. I currently run very high current VAC amps and am looking to possibly move up their line for more juice, it just adds headroom and allows everything to play effortlessly at normal and even elevated volumes, it also gives you the grunt and control you want when it's time to compress the room :rock: ....my two cents....now I'm going back to contemplate the mental image of Hugh doing bench presses with a Dunhill hanging out of the corner of his mouth!


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## arthurs (Jan 28, 2009)

Oh yeah, +1 on the Craig and the cool place to hang out thing.... :salute:


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## shadowlight (Mar 3, 2007)

My primary setup is Acurus A250 amp with Response Audio Bella L/P (www.responseaudio.com) and love the sound. I plan to replace the Acurus with a DIY 250 watt amp (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.140) and Gary Dodd has posted in the thread stating he loves the sound. I am just waiting for some response from Tom @ classdaudio.com before I put the order in.

Currently, I am running all borrowed/loaned system made up of Butler TDB2250/Threshold Stasis 3/VAC PA100 amps with BellaMax pre from Response. If you go used route you should be able to pick up the setup within your budget. I believe Arthur has used the Bella at one time in his system (Arthur please correct if I am wrong). Bill @ Response Audio is in the process of phasing out the BellaMax line so you might be able to get a good deal on one if you want a tube pre with HT out.

You also cannot go wrong with Onix gear. I had the pleasure to borrow the DAC and the it sounded great (will post my comments in a different thread).


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## HughACA (Aug 25, 2010)

The key word is TRYING to. 


etcarroll said:


> Hugh works out???????????????
> 
> Seriously.................?
> 
> ...


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## HughACA (Aug 25, 2010)

Don,

You're always welcome.


dvenardos said:


> If Mr. Cheese makes a date of it how about I swing by too (if I don't have the kids)? I would love to hear the LS-6 and your new integrated.


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## HughACA (Aug 25, 2010)

It takes lots of practice to pull it off. 


arthurs said:


> RC is a beautiful area, and Hugh has a very beautiful home with lots of beautiful audio jewelry for sure! _But I would need to hear from Hugh on the workout as I couldn't figure out how he would fit it in between smokes and coffee and red! _ :woo:
> 
> As for power, I subscribe to the more is better school when it comes to the LS....and not just watts rating. Your room size factors in as well, in an average size room the 15W Dodd, which is absolutely terrific sounding, might be a bit underpowered to really drive those speakers, I had them here and loved them but ran out of steam. I've also had the Onix here in my system, and it acquitted itself quite well and is definitely worth a listen at Hugh's. I currently run very high current VAC amps and am looking to possibly move up their line for more juice, it just adds headroom and allows everything to play effortlessly at normal and even elevated volumes, it also gives you the grunt and control you want when it's time to compress the room :rock: ....my two cents....now I'm going back to contemplate the mental image of Hugh doing bench presses with a Dunhill hanging out of the corner of his mouth!


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## arthurs (Jan 28, 2009)

Hugh said:


> It takes lots of practice to pull it off.


I never underestimate you GMH, if someone could pull it off, it would be you! :salute:


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

shadowlight said:


> Currently, I am running all borrowed/loaned system made up of Butler TDB2250/Threshold Stasis 3/VAC PA100 amps with BellaMax pre from Response.


What a great idea! I should borrow rather than buy from now on. It's cheaper AND it allows me to scratch the "want to try something new" itch frequently. Everybody PM what you'd like to send! (preferebly I'll lend you lesser gear and you'll lend me something great in return... :raspberry


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## shadowlight (Mar 3, 2007)

woofersus said:


> What a great idea! I should borrow rather than buy from now on. It's cheaper AND it allows me to scratch the "want to try something new" itch frequently. Everybody PM what you'd like to send! (preferebly I'll lend you lesser gear and you'll lend me something great in return... :raspberry


 :neener 1:

I have never owned anything tube so before plunking down some serious cash I asked the NY RAVE guys if they had anything that I could borrow for couple of weeks and 3 guys let me borrow it. How's that for some :rock:guys?

I did purchase a Bella L/P from Bill @ Response Audio and he is putting the finishing touch on. While he is putting finishing touch on the L/P he offered to send the BellaMax for me to play with :saywhat:. I would be real stupding to pass up on that offer.


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## arthurs (Jan 28, 2009)

shadowlight said:


> :neener 1:
> 
> I have never owned anything tube so before plunking down some serious cash I asked the NY RAVE guys if they had anything that I could borrow for couple of weeks and 3 guys let me borrow it. How's that for some :rock:guys?
> 
> I did purchase a Bella L/P from Bill @ Response Audio and he is putting the finishing touch on. While he is putting finishing touch on the L/P he offered to send the BellaMax for me to play with :saywhat:. I would be real stupding to pass up on that offer.


Bill is just Aces in my book, and his equipment sounds terrific!


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## etcarroll (Mar 17, 2008)

D -

That amp project looks very interesting, I just read the thread you linked to. I'd be interested in hearing how it drives your LS6s. What kind of enclosure would it go in?

I just got an email from Sean that he'll soon be done with my Ref 3s, then I'll begin the journey of building up my 2 channel system. I'll most likely start with the Acurus amp I have, and I need a nice, tubed, pre to go with it. Let me know which of your loaners has been your fav to date.

Hugh - all joshing aside, 'you're the man!' I started weight training 2 days ago, at 309.4lbs, you should have seen me doing ab crunches on the Nautilus gear, "it was money!" :dizzy:



shadowlight said:


> My primary setup is Acurus A250 amp with Response Audio Bella L/P (www.responseaudio.com) and love the sound. I plan to replace the Acurus with a DIY 250 watt amp (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.140) and Gary Dodd has posted in the thread stating he loves the sound. I am just waiting for some response from Tom @ classdaudio.com before I put the order in.
> 
> Currently, I am running all borrowed/loaned system made up of Butler TDB2250/Threshold Stasis 3/VAC PA100 amps with BellaMax pre from Response. If you go used route you should be able to pick up the setup within your budget. I believe Arthur has used the Bella at one time in his system (Arthur please correct if I am wrong). Bill @ Response Audio is in the process of phasing out the BellaMax line so you might be able to get a good deal on one if you want a tube pre with HT out.
> 
> You also cannot go wrong with Onix gear. I had the pleasure to borrow the DAC and the it sounded great (will post my comments in a different thread).


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## shadowlight (Mar 3, 2007)

etcarroll said:


> D -
> 
> That amp project looks very interesting, I just read the thread you linked to. I'd be interested in hearing how it drives your LS6s. What kind of enclosure would it go in?


Yeah, it looks real easy to put together and does not cost a lot try. If it does not work out with the ls6 will use it as a amp for surrounds. If it works out and I think more power is needed I will purchase another one and convert the existing one to mono.

I am going to go through some of the links posted in the thread for case and get one. Will let you know once it is up and running. You can make the trip up north again and have a listen.

Cheeseboy, sorry for taking the thread off track.


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## shadowlight (Mar 3, 2007)

arthurs said:


> Bill is just Aces in my book, and his equipment sounds terrific!


He sure is.


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## etcarroll (Mar 17, 2008)

shadowlight said:


> You can make the trip up north again and have a listen.


That's what I was hoping you'd say. Plus, PREX emailed me;
"We have just purchased a huge collection of 10,000 compact discs, largely consisting of classical (all periods), opera, classical vocal, jazz vocal, and Broadway shows, with some rock and pop thrown in for good measure. Even better, the vast majority of them are still sealed in their original shrinkwrap!"

I'm listening to a disk I bought there when I came up for the NY Rave, need to poke through the new arrivals.

Bach's 'Mass in B minor', it's powerfull with the Acurus amp through the RS1Ks, but I wonder what better speakers, a quality 2-channel amp and pre would do with this type of music.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

Thanks Hugh. :thumbsup:


Hugh said:


> Don,
> 
> You're always welcome.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

etcarroll said:


> Hugh - all joshing aside, 'you're the man!' I started weight training 2 days ago, at 309.4lbs, you should have seen me doing ab crunches on the Nautilus gear, "it was money!" :dizzy:


I always loved weight training and am going to be starting up again. I just finished this book and really liked what it had to say.
http://www.amazon.com/New-Rules-Lif...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264878228&sr=1-1


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## soundofrockets (Feb 25, 2009)

GOOD to know that you are getting into the ls series.........what finish will you be getting ?? whats the time frame ? used or new ??


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

Black or Rocket Rosewood. I haven't thought about used though would not rule it out.


Steve


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## imported_Cheeseboy (Feb 16, 2009)

shadowlight said:


> My primary setup is Acurus A250 amp with Response Audio Bella L/P (www.responseaudio.com) and love the sound. I plan to replace the Acurus with a DIY 250 watt amp (http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76400.140) and Gary Dodd has posted in the thread stating he loves the sound. I am just waiting for some response from Tom @ classdaudio.com before I put the order in.
> 
> Currently, I am running all borrowed/loaned system made up of Butler TDB2250/Threshold Stasis 3/VAC PA100 amps with BellaMax pre from Response. If you go used route you should be able to pick up the setup within your budget. I believe Arthur has used the Bella at one time in his system (Arthur please correct if I am wrong). Bill @ Response Audio is in the process of phasing out the BellaMax line so you might be able to get a good deal on one if you want a tube pre with HT out.
> 
> You also cannot go wrong with Onix gear. I had the pleasure to borrow the DAC and the it sounded great (will post my comments in a different thread).


Those are some really nice preamps at response. I've done some homwork and yea they are a great deal.


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