# What to use for crossover?



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

So i got my 2 XLS802's the other day for my subs and relized i'm gonna need a crossover to keep out the highs and don't have a clue as to what to use any reccomendations, comments and ideas would be greatly appreiciated. Thanks in advance, Bambino.


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## alg8er (Nov 16, 2009)

What are you using for a receiver, or pre/pro? It should have bass management with a crossover setting for the LFE channel. Then send the sub out signal to the amps. PA amps not the best for HT use, but we do what we gotta do. :bigsmile:


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

bambino said:


> So i got my 2 XLS802's the other day for my subs and relized i'm gonna need a crossover to keep out the highs and don't have a clue as to what to use any reccomendations, comments and ideas would be greatly appreiciated. Thanks in advance, Bambino.


DCX



alg8er said:


> PA amps not the best for HT use


Rubbish.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=9

http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?section=12

http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?section=9


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

alg8er said:


> What are you using for a receiver, or pre/pro? It should have bass management with a crossover setting for the LFE channel. Then send the sub out signal to the amps. PA amps not the best for HT use, but we do what we gotta do. :bigsmile:


A Denon 3808ci. Awesome AVR!:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

jackfish said:


> http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?view_product=9
> 
> http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?section=12
> 
> http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?section=9


Harrison labs, they use to and probly still do make some monster car audio amps i use to dream about.

A9X, What is the DCX?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bambino said:


> A9X, What is the DCX?


maybe  this


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

bambino said:


> A9X, What is the DCX?





salvasol said:


> maybe  this


Thanks for that.

Bambino, sorry I hang in the DIY sections most and forget others might not know this unit.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bambino said:


> So i got my 2 XLS802's the other day for my subs and relized i'm gonna need a crossover to keep out the highs and don't have a clue as to what to use any reccomendations, comments and ideas would be greatly appreiciated...


How are you connecting the XLS to your AVR??? If you're using the sub pre-out, I don't think you need an external crossover :huh:

I have a Yamaha RXV 2700, I'm using the sub preout to connect to my BKA 1000 (buttkicker amp) to power a pair of buttkickers and a DIY Sonosub.... crossover is set on the AVR to 80Hz and it works fine.

Maybe your set up is different :huh:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

salvasol said:


> How are you connecting the XLS to your AVR??? If you're using the sub pre-out, I don't think you need an external crossover :huh:
> 
> I have a Yamaha RXV 2700, I'm using the sub preout to connect to my BKA 1000 (buttkicker amp) to power a pair of buttkickers and a DIY Sonosub.... crossover is set on the AVR to 80Hz and it works fine.
> 
> Maybe your set up is different :huh:


I'll be using RCA to XLR adaptors.:dontknow:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

A9X said:


> Thanks for that.
> 
> Bambino, sorry I hang in the DIY sections most and forget others might not know this unit.


Thanks, I'm kind of illiterate when it comes to some of this stuff anyhow.:help::rolleyesno:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bambino said:


> I'll be using RCA to XLR adaptors.:dontknow:


From AVR sub pre-out to XLS??? ... if that's the case, you use the AVR internal crossover


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

salvasol said:


> From AVR sub pre-out to XLS??? ... if that's the case, you use the AVR internal crossover


I've heard talk of using an outboard or somthing like that would be needed.:dontknow: I think what i read about needing was the rechorn, what does that do? Thanks for all your responses by the way all this pro amp to home stuff is very new to me i'm use to haveing builtins in the prefab subs i've had.:help:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bambino said:


> I've heard talk of using an outboard or somthing like that would be needed.:dontknow: I think what i read about needing was the rechorn, what does that do?


Not an expert, but I think is similar to the S converter (here is  one ), but I'm sure it depends on the connection you're making and how you plan to use your equipment :huh:



> ... by the way all this pro amp to home stuff is very new to me i'm use to haveing builtins in the prefab subs i've had.:help:


We're in the same boat... I had similar questions after I build my Sonosub, but I'm learning everyday when possible :bigsmile:

That's why I like HTS forum, you can ask anything and somebody will be here to help :T

EDIT: After reading a little description about the Reckhorn, I think is useful if you're using two subs and want to have different crossover to each one.... I can use one (sub and buttkickers), to bad I'm using the same amp for both.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

The reckhorn says it is 230 volts, thats gonna mean an upgrade to my circuit, not sure if i care for that idea.:scratch:


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

bambino said:


> The reckhorn says it is 230 volts, thats gonna mean an upgrade to my circuit, not sure if i care for that idea.:scratch:


The manual says it's available in both 115 and 230. I'd email the manufacturer, US agent or whomever you were thinking of buying it from to confirm.


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

bambino i am using a high end amp from usher model r 1.5 class A for the first 50 watt and then an additionnal 
100 watts class a-b the amp weighs 84 pounds and as i use it in bridge mode it produce 560 watt at 4 ohms as i have 2 jbl 14 inch subs the bass from that amp is phenomenal in term of sound quality. i did try it first with an avr 3808,. 
if you wish you could get a 2 channel emotiva bridge in mono

then as i will buy the new denon 100th special edition from denon the avr A 100; the amp will be use as a preamp it shuts the inside amp off allowing for you to use your emotiva amps.i myself have 3 denon 120 WATT thx amp with 30 amp reserve power each( POA 8200 X2 POA 8300 X1) SO 7 channel to drive the 7 rf7 from klipsch the 4 back ones are inwall with technique i have develop. What you must know is that audyssey muti eq is 32 bit and a very special section is there to properly calibrate the sub to stellar level ,this way the denon act as a high end electronic crossover where you will choose your preferred crossover point, i go very low myself 5o hertz 
the 3808 will do that but does not have the special section to calibrate the sub and others etc
take care dvi


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

A9X said:


> The manual says it's available in both 115 and 230. I'd email the manufacturer, US agent or whomever you were thinking of buying it from to confirm.


I can't remember the place in the states that sells them, have to do a search. Thanks for the help.:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

gumberlack said:


> bambino i am using a high end amp from usher model r 1.5 class A for the first 50 watt and then an additionnal
> 100 watts class a-b the amp weighs 84 pounds and as i use it in bridge mode it produce 560 watt at 4 ohms as i have 2 jbl 14 inch subs the bass from that amp is phenomenal in term of sound quality. i did try it first with an avr 3808,.
> if you wish you could get a 2 channel emotiva bridge in mono
> 
> ...


Thanks dvi, my proamps do not have RCA ins like my Emotiva's i'm using for my surrounds and mains.
Again i can't wait for the new Denon, it's on my list of must haves.:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

AL, i will try useing the AVR x-over just for fun and to get things up and running but i'm really looking for somthing with versitility.:T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Bambino if versatility is what you are looking for then the DCX2496 is the way to go, the reckhorn is a bass management device for a max of two subs that has a high pass filter that many from the diy sub group from here use I have seen you post there, go there if you want the link to who sells that unit. I have both and the DCX is by far the unit with more versatility, and it doesn't cost 400 you can get it for $300 w/free shipping from numerous places check ebay. But if you are running those subs off of the lfe outputs on the denon you don't need the crossovers use the denon crossover.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=B-1 This is the link to the reckhorn B-1


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

The main reason i want an outboard x-over for the 15" subs using the pro amps is that i'm gonna do a 12" and throw it into the mix using the Dayton HPSA1000r's so i would like to be able to adjust each set independently with the AVR set at say 100hz. The dcx2496 sounds like a winner.:T Thank you dwr.

If anyone has any pros & cons about doing this i would like your suggestions. Thanks, Bambino.



P.S., dwr i've posted so many different places on this forum i wouldn't know where to begin to look for what i've sayed and where. LOL!


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

That being the case yes the 2496 is the way you want to go. It will give you the ability to set and adjust the delay and phase settings on the subs on an individual basis, amongst a lot of other great features.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks again man, time to do some more shopping. My wife is gonna hurt me if i keep getting all this stuff in the mail, guess it's time to start shipping to work again.:devil:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bambino said:


> ... My wife is gonna hurt me if i keep getting all this stuff in the mail, guess it's time to start shipping to work again.:devil:


Or... use the old excuse: "There was a giveaway at HTS forum and I was the lucky winner"


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

salvasol said:


> Or... use the old excuse: "There was a giveaway at HTS forum and I was the lucky winner"


Great idea! Why didn't i think of that? I wonder how many times i can get away with that one.:devil:


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## alg8er (Nov 16, 2009)

bambino; I use a Velodyne sms-1 that has x-over settings, and room correction for subs. At the high-end of your budget ($400), but maybe worth saving for.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Sub amp yes, speakers no.:bigsmile:


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

alg8er said:


> bambino; I use a Velodyne sms-1 that has x-over settings, and room correction for subs. At the high-end of your budget ($400), but maybe worth saving for.


I think for a tinkerer like Bambino an SMS or Reckhorn is a poor long term choice compared to the DCX2496 which is the proper device for the situation he has described. It is one of the most useful devices on the market today for audio. It has been integrated in many setups without issue and any noise issues have been addressed in numerous topics on the subject. 

The DCX provides fully featured EQ, REW compatibility, Active speaker crossover capability(DIY dream).

In situations where the end user desires simplicity and plug-n-play the SMS is a much better choice, but Bambino is a tinkerer and like me he will enjoy playing with a device like the DCX2496.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

alg8er said:


> What are you using for a receiver, or pre/pro? It should have bass management with a crossover setting for the LFE channel. Then send the sub out signal to the amps. PA amps not the best for HT use, but we do what we gotta do. :bigsmile:


I disagree with this assessment in most cases. PA amps provide the most power and in some cases(Yamaha P series) are among the best quality amps out there. PA amps have their weaknesses, but they provide the power needed to drive the kind of subs Bambino uses. I know of no consumer level amp capable of driving the best subwoofer drivers in the world. The folks I consider experts in the DIY audio field agree with this assessment though one of them suggests Quad amps which are among the best in consumer level audio.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thank you for the compliment lisberian:nerd:. You have got it absolutly correct. The 2496 is just the toy for me, i've been reading up on them and it sounds like a perfect choice especially given the situations i want to use it in. Thanks everyone for your replys and advice, that is what i love about this place (and what my wife hates:rofl. Again, thanks, Bambino.:T


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

hello alger8 does this velodyne unit actually have a built in electronic srossover like a reckhorn a 403
if i buy maelstrom 21 or 18 inches subs i can get the velodyne for 400 dollar take care dvi


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

gumberlack said:


> hello alger8 does this velodyne unit actually have a built in electronic srossover like a reckhorn a 403
> if i buy maelstrom 21 or 18 inches subs i can get the velodyne for 400 dollar take care dvi


yes the SMS has a crossover and EQ filters built in. 

But the DCX does offer a lot more flexibility. If you want simplicity go with the SMS if you want flexibility go with the DCX. The SMS can go very low on the filter where the DCX stops at 20hz.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*WAIT! * Let me throw my ⅛¢ in the pile...

I owned a DCX and granted... while it is nice and does a lot of stuff, I ended up not needing it. IIRC... I think I had issues with it between my receiver and EP2500 pro amps. There is probably a thread somewhere about it... I could not get the levels up high enough maybe? It's been too long. :sarcastic:

You mentioned somewhere that it was outside your budget. You can get a pair of Reckhorn B1's for $118 from our sponsor Creative Sound Solutions... and they are 115V units for the U.S. Not only would have you the LPF, but you would also have the HPF on both units if you happen to need infrasonic filtering.

Where the DCX might come in handy is the parametric EQ, if you need it... the key is if you really need it. If you have multiple subs, that can lesson your chances of needing serious EQ'ing... and the Reckhorn can do some EQ'ing for you as well. I would download REW and measure the low end response before making a final decision. 

But... you do have some economical options. Even a pair of B1's and a BFD1126p would less than the DCX and give you a LOT of flexibility.

Personally I use my receiver for the LPF into a Reckhorn B2... split out RCA to XLR to four EP2500's. :bigsmile:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> *WAIT! * Let me throw my ⅛¢ in the pile...
> 
> I owned a DCX and granted... while it is nice and does a lot of stuff, I ended up not needing it. IIRC... I think I had issues with it between my receiver and EP2500 pro amps. There is probably a thread somewhere about it... I could not get the levels up high enough maybe? It's been too long. :sarcastic:
> 
> ...


Just when i have my mind made up the owner of the place barges in and rattles my brain some more:crying:LOL!

Really, i don't know if i need parametric EQ, however i will have 2-15"subs and 1-12"sub so i think i would need it to smooth everything together.
I do however think it would be a good idea to download REW just to see and then get more advice from you guys. One problem right now is time i've been waiting on the 12" for 2 weeks now (supposed to be here tomorrow). So... after i get that, the box built and get everything put together then i can get serious. Thanks sonnie.:sn:

P.S. I will also have to check out the reckhorn stuff as that has been suggested to me before.:T


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

sonnie what do you think of using the stereo reckhorn electronic crossover as i already have a high end usher class A a-b amp that produce spectacular bass qualities i meant soundwise with 2 maelstom 21 or 18 inches in a sealed 24 inche sonotube or else i could build
for me cinema is one thing and listening to 2 channel music as master recording in 24 bit -96khz with an external Dac is the way i want to go, my main goal is exceptionnal bass quality not boomy take care dvi


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

Sonnie I am going to have to disagree with you here on your statement about not needing serious EQ with multiple subs, I use multiple subs and you most definitely want the ability to eq those subs, read Geddes and Tooles white papers, unless you have the perfect room you will need at least some eq on the subs. Also the DCX gives you the ability to make adjustments to the phase and delay of all the speakers you are controlling individually as well as the ability to adjust both the input and output signal levels with the DCX, and you will want those options when trying to integrate multiple subs into a system. I am not Knocking the B-1 I own one of those also and it is great for a HPF but the DCX way outperforms it on the versatility.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

gumberlack said:


> sonnie what do you think of using the stereo reckhorn electronic crossover as i already have a high end usher class A a-b amp that produce spectacular bass qualities i meant soundwise with 2 maelstom 21 or 18 inches in a sealed 24 inche sonotube or else i could build
> for me cinema is one thing and listening to 2 channel music as master recording in 24 bit -96khz with an external Dac is the way i want to go, my main goal is exceptionnal bass quality not boomy take care dvi


I would see no issue using it if you need it... I do not believe it will degrade your signal if that is what you are concerned with.



dwr said:


> Sonnie I am going to have to disagree with you here on your statement about not needing serious EQ with multiple subs, I use multiple subs and you most definitely want the ability to eq those subs, read Geddes and Tooles white papers, unless you have the perfect room you will need at least some eq on the subs. Also the DCX gives you the ability to make adjustments to the phase and delay of all the speakers you are controlling individually as well as the ability to adjust both the input and output signal levels with the DCX, and you will want those options when trying to integrate multiple subs into a system. I am not Knocking the B-1 I own one of those also and it is great for a HPF but the DCX way outperforms it on the versatility.


I never said you do not need serious EQ with multiple subs. You might want to read what I wrote again... :bigsmile:

White papers do not determine whether you need EQ'ing, regardless of whether you have one sub or twenty subs. What determines if you need EQ'ing is measuring your response. Multiple subs can indeed lessen your chances (as I stated above) of needing "serious" EQ... it may even eliminate the need for EQ'ing altogether, as it did for me... and I can assure you I do not have the perfect room. I have had two very different size rooms and have been able to eliminate using a BFD/DCX or any other EQ'ing by adding multiple subs properly located... no phasing issues and no delay issues. I supplied quite a bit of info on this in a few threads I posted here somewhere. I have a sneaky suspicion that I am not the only hillbilly in the world for which this might work. :nerd:

If you need a DCX, then by all means get one... if you do not need the versatility and you are on a budget, save your money and get only what you need. Either way, measure your response first to see what you need, which will make your decision all the more wiser.:T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

No problem Sonnie can you post some of the graphs of your room measurements, I'd really like to see them, and I commend you for being able to integrate the multiple subs with no eq. And I didn't say you were the only hillbilly in the world that it would work for, it is just extremely hard to do properly without at least some eq on the subs.


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

This is the line I was referring to.
If you have multiple subs, that can lesson your chances of needing serious EQ'ing... and the Reckhorn can do some EQ'ing for you as well. I would


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

dwr said:


> No problem Sonnie can you post some of the graphs of your room measurements, I'd really like to see them, and I commend you for being able to integrate the multiple subs with no eq. And I didn't say you were the only hillbilly in the world that it would work for, it is just extremely hard to do properly without at least some eq on the subs.


I must say that it is sometimes amazing what stuff will do with out even asking it to. I'm refering to my current setup as of right now it is perfect (for me) and does everything i want without audessy or Eq'ing, but i am afraid once all the subs come to life it may be a different story.:dontknow:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

dwr said:


> No problem Sonnie can you post some of the graphs of your room measurements, I'd really like to see them, and I commend you for being able to integrate the multiple subs with no eq. And I didn't say you were the only hillbilly in the world that it would work for, it is just extremely hard to do properly without at least some eq on the subs.


It was very simple for me in both situations... subs front + subs back. Worked out beautifully both times.

The graphs are here somewhere in the forum... I will see if I can find them, but no promises. I use to have them on my computer, but changed out hard drives and did not keep everything. :huh:



dwr said:


> This is the line I was referring to.
> If you have multiple subs, that can lesson your chances of needing serious EQ'ing... and the Reckhorn can do some EQ'ing for you as well. I would


Yeah... I stand behind that comment 100%. With only one sub... I see nearly everyone needing some EQ'ing of some sort. Actually I am having a hard time remembering anyone who did not need it. On the other hand, there have been several graphs of multiple subs come through the REW forum where no EQ was needed at all. Multiple subs can (it may not always, but it definitely has the potential) to help eliminate EQ'ing. :T


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## dwr (May 13, 2010)

You know the funny thing about this is ......I don't use any EQ either, I just have my subs that play with the mains for two channel listening 90 degrees out of phase with the mains the LFE subs are in phase. I was shocked how much better the 3 subs out of phase sound as opposed to in phase or 180 degrees out of phase. I just find the dcx so nice to manage 5 subs.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I think what i'm gonna do is give it a hoot at first without any EQ'ing do some REW see what youguys have to say and go from there. Just wish my new project sub would show up so i can get started on this.:T 
Thanks, Bambino.


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## ddgtr (Nov 1, 2009)

bambino said:


> So i got my 2 XLS802's the other day for my subs and relized i'm gonna need a crossover to keep out the highs and don't have a clue as to what to use any reccomendations, comments and ideas would be greatly appreiciated. Thanks in advance, Bambino.


I've got a dbx 223XL (xlr connections only) that I use to integrate a sub with my 2 channel. Works great and very inexpensive.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

ddgtr said:


> I've got a dbx 223XL (xlr connections only) that I use to integrate a sub with my 2 channel. Works great and very inexpensive.


I'll have to check it out as i still haven't pulled the trigger on one, thanks for the suggestion.:T


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