# Using two different subwoofers in one theater



## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

I have a interesting situation that I was hoping the awesome members here could help me out with so here it goes!

I currently have a home theater setup in the basement of my rented home that includes one AV123 MFW-15 subwoofer which has been incredible. Sub was bought about a year ago and has been great ever since. My wife and I recently bought a home and I have been given full run of the finished basement. :bigsmile::bigsmile: So....Now that this will be our home for at least 5-10 years (i hope!) I can install a system and take the time to tune it knowing that it wont be moved in a year. I will be putting in a in-ceiling projection screen, wire the speakers through the walls/ceiling, two row seating, theater seats, ceiling mount the projector, store my components in a a/v closet rack mount etc. With all of this work being done I have thought about taking my 1 sub setup and expanding it to two which would be easy except for the fact that the internet-based company (AV123) went out of business due to lack of advertising I assume. So now I have this wonderful sub that is making the 2nd sub decision pretty hard and this is where I need your help! I have thought of a few possibilities:

1) Buy a second subwoofer with similar capabilities and freq range that would be the next closest match besides the identical model.

2) Replace some of the components in my current sub and then build a second sub with the same speaker/amp setup. (This would obviously been a decent amount of work so it would have to be either an overwhelming savings in $ or sound incredible and therefore worth the effort). 


3) Ditch the sub somehow and purchase two identical subs from HSU, SVS, etc. (Pricey)


Please provide your thoughts/comments/suggestions as I am at a loss for what to do.

Thank you!!


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Forum. Two similar subs co-located wouldn't be too bad, but, you would have to sonically match them with care. Have fun. Dennis


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

"Sonically match them" -> would i be able to do this using a 2 channel EQ (behringer 1142 maybe?) or would this depend more on the cabinet construction and driver of the other sub? Thank you for your reply!


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

I mean, when you are setting them up, make sure they are absolutely volume matched, phase, etc. The EQ would help with that. You might (assuming you get the 2nd sub) consider getting the Audyssey AS-EQ1 from SVSound. It would greatly help with that setup.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Yeah, AV123's lack of advertising isn't the issue. Quite the opposite, too much bad press: http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/av123-mark-schifter-indicted-grand-jury

Option 1 makes the most financial sense, option 3 might give you the best results if you are using an auto-eq function such as audyssey.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Oh wow...I couldn't have been more wrong! haha Well that sucks, what an idiot. 

Are you familiar with the MFW-15 at all? Do you have any recommendations for option 1?
Maybe something from HSU or SV Sound? Any recommendations would be appreciated!


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

The HSU VTF-15H and Elemental Designs A5-350 have similar specs.


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## hgoed (Mar 22, 2010)

May I ask for some clarification on part of this issue?

I was under the impression that with decent EQ, which included phase and SPL adjustment, it wouldn't really matter if the subs were different. My assumption being that that the subs are used only from 80Hz and below. 

Are sonic differences really noticable once the above parameters have been normalized?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

From Audyssey: If you are using an EQ that equalizes 2 subs as 1, a "lesser" sub can be overdriven at certain frequencies and SPLs. Recommended is to have two subs of equal capability.

If you're using another EQ method, this may not be as critical, but you would still lose the benefit of smoother response at the points where the frequency responses of the two do not overlap.


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## hgoed (Mar 22, 2010)

I didn't think of the demands on the driver. Good point. Thanks.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

brad.wilson1011 said:


> 3) Ditch the sub somehow and purchase two identical subs from HSU, SVS, etc. (Pricey)


I chose option #3 myself. This is what replaced my MFW-15, and I'm so glad I did.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/43694-cs-18-t-duo-series-2-a.html


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

What did you do with the MFW-15? Sell it to put towards the CS 18.T?

Is chasehometheater the only place to buy the setup? They seem to be transitioning between models. 

What EQ are you using to tune them?? FYI, I am using B&Ws as well so I am definitely persuaded by your success with ditching the MFW-15. I am in the process of designing a new theater so I would like to put my money in the right places in the beginning. Do you recommend the extra expense over buying a second sub on its own?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

brad.wilson1011 said:


> What did you do with the MFW-15? Sell it to put towards the CS 18.T?


Allow me to disclose, I am a volunteer moderator for the CHT forum. 

I did sell and use the money to fund the CS-18.T Duo.



> Is chasehometheater the only place to buy the setup? They seem to be transitioning between models.


Yes, you contact CHT for their gear. The transition between cabinet makers is complete and the new OEM has started production. The closeout priced CS-10.2, CS-18.T, SS-18.2 (active) and the SS-18.P (passive) are still available. 



> What EQ are you using to tune them?? FYI, I am using B&Ws as well so I am definitely persuaded by your success with ditching the MFW-15. I am in the process of designing a new theater so I would like to put my money in the right places in the beginning.


I am minimalist 2 channel here, so I have no EQ other than the Dayton single band PEQ, which I find I don't need to use. The duals are smoothing the room very nicely.

Most home theater AVRs have provisions for bass management and room EQ. What AVR are you using, or planning to use?



> Do you recommend the extra expense over buying a second sub on its own?


I highly recommend getting rid of the MFW-15 to avoid amp trouble in the future, unless you want to spend around $250 or so to get the Version 3 amplifier. That would make it more reliable, but it still won't compete with a single 18", let alone duals. If it were me (and it was), instead of sinking money into the MFW-15 and then buying another subwoofer, I would sell and get two monster subs. Much easier in the long run.

People are still snatching up the MFW-15s on the used market, so selling shouldn't be a problem. Mine went right next door to my neighbor.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

I truly appreciate the insight. I am currently using a Onkyo TX-SR607 for my AVR. The only tuning that has happened so far is the speaker calibration with the included mic on my Onkyo. 

Would you recommend snatching up a pair of the clearance 18.Ts from CS or purchasing one of the new models? From what I have read the newer models are going to have a nicer finish and some minor tweaks, but I didn't see anything major over the older model. 

Any opinion on the dayton amp they sell with it vs a behringer iNUKE?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

brad.wilson1011 said:


> I truly appreciate the insight. I am currently using a Onkyo TX-SR607 for my AVR. The only tuning that has happened so far is the speaker calibration with the included mic on my Onkyo.
> 
> Would you recommend snatching up a pair of the clearance 18.Ts from CS or purchasing one of the new models? From what I have read the newer models are going to have a nicer finish and some minor tweaks, but I didn't see anything major over the older model.


If money is tight, I would jump on the clearance prices. That might allow you to get more sub for your money, like two SS-18.2Ps (passive) and the pro amp of your choosing. A setup like that would have phenomenal performance. If not, the CS-18.T Duo is still a great choice.

If you choose to wait, you will get a cabinet with recessed drivers, a 2" thick baffle and a slightly better finish over the SS cabinets.



> Any opinion on the dayton amp they sell with it vs a behringer iNUKE?


I have no experience with the iNUKE amps, they certainly seem to be a worthy option. The Dayton works very well for my 2 channel gear, as it includes the low pass crossover, which I need. It certainly has all the power I need, I very rarely see the half power indicator light up, and only when I am pushing my entire system way past it's limits. In other words, when I am being stupid. :dumbcrazy:

If the Onkyo TX-SR607 provides low pass roll off, feeding the sub output(s) to a pro amp should be no problem, other than possibly needing to accommodate XLR and Speakon.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Now yet another question of opinion... I currently use 4 B&W 685s which have been absolutely incredible (and a HTM62 center channel) with my MFW-15. Would you spend the $$ to purchase the CS setup with a set of 18.T or add a set of B&W 683 or 684s and go from 5.1 to 7.1?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Bass over extra channels any day. 

Better bass will have a much bigger effect on the sound, and on all that you watch. Not every disc is going to be 7.1.

Although I would entertain swapping a pair of the 685's out for the FST 683's.... :devil:


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Tesseract thank you for your help. I think I will pick up a set of the 18.Ts and drive them with a iNUKE. Hopefully the 3000watt is enough. I think the ss18.2 passives are sorta overkill for a 25' by 15' room. I guess the 18.t is as well...haha

Do you know if anyone on here uses control4 home automation products?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

brad.wilson1011 said:


> Tesseract thank you for your help. I think I will pick up a set of the 18.Ts and drive them with a iNUKE. Hopefully the 3000watt is enough. I think the ss18.2 passives are sorta overkill for a 25' by 15' room. I guess the 18.t is as well...haha


The Berry NU3000 would be just about perfect, it should put out 1500 watts @ 4 ohms, 3000 watts peak (the manufacturer ratings are peak).



> Do you know if anyone on here uses control4 home automation products?


I do not. I ran it through the search function (Click "show posts") and came up with several hits.


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## Gorilla83 (Sep 21, 2011)

I'd also be interested in hearing opinions on the iNuke3000. I've been looking hard at one to power a JTR Cap (upcoming purchase) for my basement setup. 

With that said, I'd agree with your option 3 to purchase a pair of matching subs. It's hard to beat the value (in terms of clean dollars per output) that the CHT setup provides.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Gorilla, I have been hunting around for a good deal on either an inuke or a europower amp that had the speaker terminals in back (I like this!). I will definitely post what I end up with and how it sounds


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