# Need help with Audyssey on Onkyo TX-NR807



## goyop (May 4, 2010)

Rewired the cabinet and put in the new TX-NR807 and excited to set up Audyssey but am now stuck. It is giving me a Speaker Detect Error on the left rear surround and the sub.

Following is what I have:
TX-NR807
5.1 speakers, all Klipsch

When I go into the Onkyo configuration I get output from all six speakers so they are all connected and working. The setup has them going at Odb and they sound relatively equal in volume.

Something I noticed in this receiver is that it is defaulted to 7.1 so when I try to configure the setup of the speakers if you remove the side surround speakers the program removes the rear surround and does not allow you to manually add them. This seems odd.

So we know that the speakers are connected and working. The setup is on 7,1 even though we have 5,1. Moving to Audyssey, the setup program starts up and begins to look for whatever speakers are present. As it walks its way around the room, it starts with the left high, left wide, etc., and keeps going in a clockwise direction. On the monitor diagram the sub is at about 2 o'clock but it seems to get skipped during setup. I read the instructions about turning up the volume and removing any low pass filters which I did. So the setup continues to the right rear surround, OK, then it doesn't continue to the left rear surround. It doesn't even flash on the speaker in the diagram as it does on all the others - even the channels which arent' being used. So it appears the program is stopping without even testing these speakers. The program stops and give the message of Speaker Detect Error of missing the sub and the left rear surround. 

The options are only to run it again or quit. There are no manual setup features or troubleshooting that I am aware of. So does anyone have any idea what is going on? I bought this receiver almost primarily for the Audyssey feature. Without it, it might as well be any other amp.

Thanks,

Greg


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Make sure your surrounds are actually in surround and not back. Are you hearing sound from all your speakers/sub during the test?

Sub should be last channel tested, after speakers.


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## goyop (May 4, 2010)

Thanks for the tip. I went to the Audyssey website and they said the same thing. Even though it is in the manual as I discovered, it seems counter intuitive. 

But the good news is that it now is working correctly. You are correct that the sub comes last.

You know how it is when you do a couple days work and get it all ready to go and run into something like this. Thankfully it was something simple. I actually did read through the manual before connecting everything but I am sure I skimmed over the "the back left and right surround are only the back left and right surround if you have the surround left and right in use. Otherwise the back and left and right surround will now be powered by the left and right surround............." They could have done this internally. Oh well.

Thanks


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

You're not the first person this has happened to. Enjoy the new system.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I am glad you have this all sorted out. I was out Fishing last night and then watched my beloved Atlanta Hawks sell Draft Picks as our Ownership is broke.

Goyop, I am glad you go Audyssey all set. It can be finicky. I go so far as to turn off my Central A/C Unit when performing Audyssey as making the room as quiet as possible is quite important. And when living in SW Florida, that is truly a sacrifice. It is also fairly common for Audyssey to get the distance on the Subwoofer wrong. I am glad that was not your experience.

Again, congrats on your new AVR. I really think it will provide you with years of joy.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I'll one up you...I unplug my fridge and hide behind the couch when I run Audyssey...seriously, I do. Also, I thought that the reason the sub often has the distance wrong was a correction for phase, and that the distance should not be corrected manually afterwords.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

From the Audyssey Setup Guide, posted at many different places on the internet: 

* 4. Do not change the distance setting of the subwoofer: The subwoofer / satellite speaker time alignment blend is based on this setting.


1.

Inaccurate subwoofer distance measurements usually occur when a subwoofer’s Low-Pass Filter (LPF) is active, or when using subwoofer equalization systems.

1.

The LPF, by nature of its design, introduces additional delay to the signal.
2.

Audyssey measures the delay of the signal and compensates for it by increasing the subwoofer distance setting. *


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I have been lucky that I have never had my Subwoofer Distance be far off as some have experienced. However, I do know that this is a fairly common thing. 

Marshall, those are some excellent additional bits of information. And excellent call on unplugging the Fridge. I think I will do that next time I run MultEQ XT.
Cheers,
JJ


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## goyop (May 4, 2010)

You guys are awesome.

Thanks


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## goyop (May 4, 2010)

I may post this elsewhere also and / or if you guys want to move it or copy it so others can benefit from it feel free.

First, thanks JJ for the recommendation on Audyssey. As mentioned before, I have manually EQ'd hundreds of rooms for live sound. I did my home also and got a decent result. However, the Audyssey is unbelievable. I selected four spots for the microphone and somehow in the magic of the Audyssey system each of the four spots has near perfect convergence and levels. This is not something you could do manually, ever.

The levels and curves that were calculated resulted in the smoothest listening situation I have ever heard. I am a trained sound engineer and recording engineer with a decent ear. This is one smooth setup. Very pleasing to the ear.

At first I was uncertain about the overall EQ. Most likely due to the dramatic difference between before and after. (Unfortunately I did not take and baseline measurements of the old system) However the more I listen the more pleased I am. Time will tell but to me it is a slight bit "tinny" in the midrange and not quite enough sizzle at the upper end. Has anyone experienced this? Also is there a way to make some minor preference adjustments?

For me Aydysseyt rocks. I always felt sorry for guys who did not have their rooms or cars EQ'd knowing how much better things sound with a flat curve to start with. Now I feel sorry for myself for not having Aydyssey for so long and for all the others who don't have access to it.

PS My sub distance came out pretty close to correct. However it may be because I had the gain set fairly high for the measurements. The program actually cut the gain back in the system but maybe having the gain higher will give a more accurate distance read.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Audyssey really has made a huge difference in my HT as well and I am an unabashed supporter. Considering that Audyssey is the brainchild of Tomlinson Holman (Tomlinson Holman eXperiment=THX) and fellow USC Professor Chris Kyriakakis fostered at USC's famed Integrated Media Systems Center, it really has had the Resources and knowhow to foster something truly special.

Where Audyssey really sets itself apart from MCACC is in Audyssey's ability to EQ below 60 Hz. MultEQ has won countless Industry Awards as well. I really do think it is a cut above. Glad it has worked well for you as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bigreddog (May 7, 2012)

I have an Onkyo TX-NR807 receiver and am having some, actually A TON of Audessey issues. My room is a weird layout with the living room being opened into the DR and that into the Kitchen. First I have to turn all my sub WAY DOWN for audessey to even work. Then I put the mic on a stack of books where my head would be, on my rocking chair. It makes the surrounds harder to pickup probably. Anyways I think it sounds AWFUL and I've done it over and over, in new spots and new ideas. I bought this Onkyo because I got rid of 4 ohm only speakers and therefore was able to ditch a Yamaha receiver with the YPAO. I didn't like YPAO and I think Audessey is worse! Such a pain. What happened to the good ole bass and treble knob. So I go into the manual EQ on the screen and it shows me several bars to slide up and down but I can only slide may a third of them? Its been awhile..... I got so frustrated that I bought a Harman Kardon oldie but goodie AVR 7000 and an HDMI splitter box running straight into the TV. That's worked great but now with new speakers (Definitive MYTHOS ONES) I'm thinking of trying the Onkyo again, any suggestions? Also, I now have an Adcom GFA-555 external amp which I just added to the HK and can do the same with the Onkyo. I'd love to use the Onkyo since I paid the money for it, but this complex and way off Audessey is stressing me out! Any suggestions or any suggestions on HOW to setup a manual eq or "bass and treble" only on the Onkyo? Thanks!! By the way.....I use it 90% for 2 channel music listening and only about 10% for movies.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

bigreddog said:


> Then I put the mic on a stack of books where my head would be, on my rocking chair.


Too much large stuff in close proximity to the mic and an unstable support. Try a real mic stand or a tripod.


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## bigreddog (May 7, 2012)

I have used a tripod and have also used a use stack of hard backed books which lean against the back of my chair. My question is, if I can't get Audessey to sound good, can I turn it off? If so, I see bars representing bass and treble frequency bars but I can't slide each one like a manual EQ. I can only slide like 3 at a time. Is this really right?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

bigreddog said:


> I have used a tripod and have also used a use stack of hard backed books which lean against the back of my chair. My question is, if I can't get Audessey to sound good, can I turn it off?


Of course. There is a menu option for that.



> If so, I see bars representing bass and treble frequency bars but I can't slide each one like a manual EQ. I can only slide like 3 at a time. Is this really right?


Dunno. Specific to your AVR but some have options for EQing ALL, By-Pair or Individual. Again, somewhere in the menus.

BTW, before you dismiss Audyssey for the lame EQ/tone controls, see the Audyssey Set-Up Guide on AVS. There are many issues to this and none are addressed in the user's manual.


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## bigreddog (May 7, 2012)

Sorry for the long delay on replying. I've been through a very tough time lately with my health. I'm getting better now and so I'm back to dealing with this issue today. However I've complicated the situation even more. I went to a pawn shop (not a good and wise one) and they sell name brand Pioneer, Sony and such for high dollar, but they don't know how to price unheard of items so I ended up getting a NAD receiver for $79. It's a T743 model which is their entry model at $700 new. So, I have the Onkyo TX-NR807, a Harman Kardon AVR7000, and a NAD T743. The Onkyo is the newest built in 2010 with a MSRP of $1099. The Harman/Kardon AVR7000 was built in 2001 with a MSRP back then of $1799 and the NAD T-743 was built in 2005 with a MSRP of $699. I have 3 very different beasts here and after trying all three out I'm scratching my head for advice! The NAD receiver is rated at 50 watts RMS only but seems to be WAY more than that and all articles on the net confirm this. But, I don't care about the front main channel power because I am using an Adcome GFA-555 external Amp. So this is what doesn't make sense....when I hook the Adcom amp to the Harmon Kardon it is a very bright in your face loud sound. It a level of -26 in 2 ch music it's really hitting it's sweet spot and will blast you away at about -18. Now, with the same amp but using the NAD receiver with the bass and treble at the same levels and the speakers set at +0 for level control, why is the NAD so different? The sound is so much more controlled. At -26 its much quiter than using the HK receiver and it takes -18 to hit the sweet spot which is about the max id run it on the HK but on the NAD -18 is great but not super loud and its about -10 level to achieve the HK volume at about -20. WHY? Same external amp...same speakers, set to same levels. Is the NAD too weak or is the HK to bright and invasive? And now with the new external amp do I even want to get the Onkyo NR807 out of the box to mess with that Audessey setup in my odd shaped room? Since I'm using it for 90% music and I already have a good external amp, I'm thinking I don't care what wattage is in the receiver so the NAD is good for me but why do I have to turn it up so much? I couldn't even imagine a video's volume level! So guys, need the advice here, do I learn to use Audessey and figure out HOW EXACTLY to set the EQ bass and treble on screen or do I go old school and keep the HK or the NAD? And if I go old school which between the HK or the NAD would you choose?

My speakers are Definitive Tech MYTHOS One's with a Definitive Center Channel and JBL rears. My subs, which is going to make me sound weird, I have B&W sub (8"), a Velodyne Impact (10"), an Energy sub (10"), a Polk505 sub (12"), a Fosgate Audionics FA15.0 (15"), and an Elemental Designs A5-550 sub (15"). So yeah I have the bass pretty much covered and believe or not the Mythos speakers still will rise and shine above all the subs. So, do I get all up to date and use my Onkyo and learn to deal with it's confusing EQ setups or keep the HK since it's a workhorse and was the flagship model of it's day or go with the most expensive company NAD but stick with their entry level piece and use my Adcom amp anyways? What one will give me the best sound and compatibility?


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I would personally hook up the Onkyo and run Audyssey. If after you've run Audyssey and you still prefer the sound of the NAD better swap it out. Audyssey really can do some amazing things with room correction and is simple to run. As far as the numbers go I wouldn't be to distracted. Just go with what sounds best to you. That's really all that matters.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

bigreddog said:


> Sorry for the long delay on replying. I've been through a very tough time lately with my health. I'm getting better now and so I'm back to dealing with this issue today. However I've complicated the situation even more. I went to a pawn shop (not a good and wise one) and they sell name brand Pioneer, Sony and such for high dollar, but they don't know how to price unheard of items so I ended up getting a NAD receiver for $79. It's a T743 model which is their entry model at $700 new. So, I have the Onkyo TX-NR807, a Harman Kardon AVR7000, and a NAD T743. The Onkyo is the newest built in 2010 with a MSRP of $1099. The Harman/Kardon AVR7000 was built in 2001 with a MSRP back then of $1799 and the NAD T-743 was built in 2005 with a MSRP of $699. I have 3 very different beasts here and after trying all three out I'm scratching my head for advice! The NAD receiver is rated at 50 watts RMS only but seems to be WAY more than that and all articles on the net confirm this. But, I don't care about the front main channel power because I am using an Adcome GFA-555 external Amp. So this is what doesn't make sense....when I hook the Adcom amp to the Harmon Kardon it is a very bright in your face loud sound. It a level of -26 in 2 ch music it's really hitting it's sweet spot and will blast you away at about -18. Now, with the same amp but using the NAD receiver with the bass and treble at the same levels and the speakers set at +0 for level control, why is the NAD so different? The sound is so much more controlled. At -26 its much quiter than using the HK receiver and it takes -18 to hit the sweet spot which is about the max id run it on the HK but on the NAD -18 is great but not super loud and its about -10 level to achieve the HK volume at about -20. WHY? Same external amp...same speakers, set to same levels. Is the NAD too weak or is the HK to bright and invasive? And now with the new external amp do I even want to get the Onkyo NR807 out of the box to mess with that Audessey setup in my odd shaped room? Since I'm using it for 90% music and I already have a good external amp, I'm thinking I don't care what wattage is in the receiver so the NAD is good for me but why do I have to turn it up so much? I couldn't even imagine a video's volume level! So guys, need the advice here, do I learn to use Audessey and figure out HOW EXACTLY to set the EQ bass and treble on screen or do I go old school and keep the HK or the NAD? And if I go old school which between the HK or the NAD would you choose?
> 
> My speakers are Definitive Tech MYTHOS One's with a Definitive Center Channel and JBL rears. My subs, which is going to make me sound weird, I have B&W sub (8"), a Velodyne Impact (10"), an Energy sub (10"), a Polk505 sub (12"), a Fosgate Audionics FA15.0 (15"), and an Elemental Designs A5-550 sub (15"). So yeah I have the bass pretty much covered and believe or not the Mythos speakers still will rise and shine above all the subs. So, do I get all up to date and use my Onkyo and learn to deal with it's confusing EQ setups or keep the HK since it's a workhorse and was the flagship model of it's day or go with the most expensive company NAD but stick with their entry level piece and use my Adcom amp anyways? What one will give me the best sound and compatibility?


Hello,
I am so sorry to read you were not feeling well and am so relieved to read you are feeling better. Not all AVR Preamp Sections are created equal and you are in the relatively rare situation where you have 3 to compare and contrast this factor with.

The Adcom GFA-555 MkII was the first Power Amplifier that I ever purchased and will always hold a special place in my thoughts. It was my junior year at UGA and it was quite a revelation to hear the difference with my Paradigm Monitor 7's that I purchased my freshman year. 

I am quite fond of NAD and really like the Logic 7 offered by the H/K. Given your music bias, I suppose only the Onkyo offering Dolby True HD and DTS HD is not as much of an issue. However, Music Blu-rays sound amazing and would sway me towards the 807.

Needless to say, your use of 6 Subwoofers will make running Audyssey MultEQ much more difficult. I would run MultEQ with just the eD and afterwards add in the other 5 Subwoofers. Another way to do it would be to use the High Level Connections of each Subwoofer and link each sub with a Def Tech. That way, you would run all channels Full Range and task the eD with LFE only. It would also allow you to run MultEQ with all the Subwoofers. You could use this exact same route on the H/K and NAD as well.

Given just how important HDMI is I would go with the 807. Or perhaps sell all three on Audiogon to get an even newer AVR. The NAD should net you a tidy profit as NAD enjoys a pretty strong cult following. I suppose trust your ears in respect to which AVR you decide to go with. I must say I do not think I have ever come across someone using 6 Subwoofers. I do agree that you most certainly have Bass covered.
Cheers, 
JJ


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## bigreddog (May 7, 2012)

Thanks JBrax and Jack for your replies. In regards to my 6 subwoofers it is very very odd that I have them I know, but I used to have a pair of Boehlender Grabener Radia 520 speaker which were the 6 feet tall ribbon speakers with no bass at all and took a TON of 4 ohm only power just to get these things to half-way sing. I stumbled across the Definitive Mythos One speakers by actually getting a phone call from my buddy that manages a pawn store. I wasn't a big fan of the over rated speakers like B&W and Definitive and so on. But, these were the Mythos Ones and brand new in a box. After a police check revealed they were allowed to sell them, I purchased them on the spot from my friend. The MSRP on the Def Mythos One's were $2500/pr at the time and the MSRP on my Radia 520's ranged on different sites from $6500 to $10,000 so I figured I'd listen to them and then sell them. After listening to the Definitive Mythos I agreed that in my life with all the speakers I've had, I've never heard a pair of speakers that literally wanted to make me cry in a good way. The BG Radia more expensive speakers had to go. I've been through the best Canton speakers and the best Klipsch (old and new models including Heresy's and then the modern best sets, as well as Martin Logan, Apollo, Polk RTi12's and even a higher end set of B&W speakers. I'm a different person after hearing the Mythos Ones and never again will pass up auditioning a pair of speakers just because of their name brand. I'm still not a big Definitive Fan but like some companies they have some better than others. They don't have hardly any bass but that seems to be the issue with all speakers these days. I had a brand new set of Polk Rti12's delivered on a crate to my door and they were monsters and I powered them well and still had no bass. With my big Elemental Design sub it has a 15" sub but lacks the tight bass. Then I added a couple subs for smaller tight bass and STILL, the problem I had was that when I cranked it those Definitives wanted to overpower and shine, not distortion but just clean good but loud sound. They have a soundstage like no other speaker I've ever had. Now back to my receiver issue..... The Onkyo does have the HDMI and better HD movie options but I use it mainly for audio only. I had a Yamaha upper end receiver that had the YPAO which is their version of audessey. I got rid of it to hopefully have better luck with Audessey and that hasn't happened yet. I have all my subs linked together and power them all off except the eD sub. I have no problem fine tuning the subs and the frequency settings. My issue is how awful the default audessey sounds after running it. I make changes to make it better but it's still not as good. My big confusion is when I go into the normal EQ it's a 9 band with different frequencies and it says the frequencies but when I go to slide one up and down it slides THREE bars at a time up and down. Why? Plus the Onkyo network receiver menu is so complex I spend all night messing with it instead of enjoying music. So I bought the older Harman Kardon just to have the flagship model from that period of time and it still has bass and treble controls. It was my answer but with adding the Adcom amp it's such a bright in your face sound as if the gain controls were set at +5 or above. Then I went to see my buddy from the pawn store and his employee's just don't know how to price certain items so for $79 I bought the NAD receiver and never intended to use it in my big system. My new in the box Definitive's were only $300 in the box brand new for the PAIR! Audio is not his thing and he'd rather sell it to me and make a little because he keeps his floors stacked with power tools and TV's and jewelry, etc... I figured, just for the of it, that I'd try out the NAD using the Adcom as well and WOW everything sounded so much more controlled. But why does the $699 receiver do a better job? I have an HDMI switch box with remote so I don't need that feature on a receiver. All I need are optical and coax digitals to go with the analog inputs. But still I have this very expensive Onkyo that I've used less than two weeks now. I could sell them all and buy a new model but again they all have that audessey mic when seems to give me fits. Harman Kardon newer stuff isn't like it used to be, not even owned by HK anymore. They are owned by ConAgra foods that make eckrich hot dogs and peterpan PB! I've had a couple people tell me that if I'm using my own external amp, why bother buying a big receiver only to not use the amp? I just need the amp for occasional center and rear channels for surround. But why, when using the same amp, even if they use simple bass and treble controls like the HK and NAD is there such a huge sound difference? The NAD sounds wonderful but I do need to krank the out of it to get the same level of sound that the HK puts out at a lower db. With the NAD the speakers sound great without wanting to scream in your ear and the subs, all the subs, seem to have a more controlled sound. My 6 subs were needed to pickup where the Def Tech speakers left off. I needed tight bass, medium bass, and big bass so I have two 8" subs (B&W and Energy), a 10" Velodyne, a 12" Polk 505, a 15" Fosgate Audionics FA15.0 with the plate amp disabled and instead controlled by a $1000 Speakercraft External Amp, and the Elemental Designs A5-550. Believe it or not and all who hear my system agree, say that the Definitive speakers STILL outshine all the subs. I'm just at a loss on what to do. I feel like I want the latest and greatest but they are all going to this Audessey mic system. My room size is very odd since the dining room is off the living room so it's an L shape plus the hall, etc..... Is there a receiver brand that will let you manually adjust the bass and treble settings with full control and will bypass the audessey system without punishing you? I've been told to go the preamp route but I like having a remote and all the inputs and still having an amp for the center and rear surrounds. The HDMI inputs like I said I have taken care of with a switchbox. I have so much home audio equipment I need to sell and I might just part with it to upgrade my system even more if necessary. I have a vintage Pioneer SX-950 receiver that I just paid a cabinet company to professional redo the casing to make it 100% mint and now I'm wanting to sell it and with this frustration I might just sell it all and get something completely new, but that's what I thought I was doing by getting the new TX-NR807 a few years ago and after two weeks or less it went in a box in the closet and it's just setting and waiting for me to figure this confusing thing out:scratch:
All your help and recommendations are very appreciated!

Ted


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