# HT Center Speaker Matching with Front Speakers



## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

My HT setup is 5.1
My sitting room is 14LX12Bx8H (normal English home). I have 2XIMF TLS 80 Transmission Line Speakers ( about 1976), Onkyo TX-NR609 Receiver, small 1XYamaha Front and 2Xsmall Yamaha Rear speakers. I have a small Yamaha Sub but I do not use it.
Reading the thread, center speaker should be matched with the 2 front speakers. I feel my center is ok but not as good as I would like it to be.
How do I go about finding a center speaker that will match with the fronts with spec as this:STUDIO TLS 80

Dimensions
Free Standing with Plinth; 38 1/2" x 16" x 18" wide

Drive Units
Bass unit 11 3/4" x 8 1/4" flat polystyrene diaphragm loaded by transmission line
mid range unit 6" plastic cone containing in separate line
tweeter 1 3/4 " diaphragm
3/4" chemical dome super-tweeter

Crossover
Electrical four way at 375 Hz , 3.5 kHz and 15 Khz

Frequency Range
20 Hz to beyong audibility

Matching Impedence
4 - 8 ohms (see graph)

Efficiency Measured via Pink Noise at 1 metre on axis for 40 watts
96dB

Driving Power Requirements
40 - 80 watts
I would be grateful for any suggestions.
Regards
2Ch Good Music
Fight Loudness War. Preserve Dynamic Range.

William


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

I would look for British speakers of the vintage with KEF/Bradford mids/woofers and KEF/Celestion/STC HF drivers.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

I suspect you will have quite a challenge to match 40+ year old TL speakers; if the age isn't enough of an obstacle, a TL alignment will certainly be. About the only commercially available speaker I know of that's even close to a transmission line is the Atlantic Technology AT-2, but I don't know how well that would match with your current speakers.

Does your receiver have the ability to create a 'phantom' center? If so, that might be your best option. I personally don't think they work as well as a real center does, but it may be worth considering.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

theJman said:


> I suspect you will have quite a challenge to match 40+ year old TL speakers; if the age isn't enough of an obstacle, a TL alignment will certainly be.


I doubt that. First of all, the TL affects only the low bass and will not be particularly relevant for timbre matching over the significant part of the spectrum. Second, there are TL speakers available today but, as noted, that only affects the low end of the woofer.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Kal Rubinson said:


> I doubt that. First of all, the TL affects only the low bass and will not be particularly relevant for timbre matching over the significant part of the spectrum. Second, there are TL speakers available today but, as noted, that only affects the low end of the woofer.


So what TL speakers are currently available that could match the voicing of his 40 year old speakers then? I still contend no such animal exists.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

theJman said:


> So what TL speakers are currently available that could match the voicing of his 40 year old speakers then? I still contend no such animal exists.


PMC for one. However, they will not match the voicing because the voicing has nothing to do with bass loading. I stand by the suggestions in my original reply.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

The OP's original question was about a center that would timbre/voice match with his current speakers. Bass loading is a minor consideration in respect to what he is attempting to achieve.


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## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

theJman said:


> I suspect you will have quite a challenge to match 40+ year old TL speakers; if the age isn't enough of an obstacle, a TL alignment will certainly be. About the only commercially available speaker I know of that's even close to a transmission line is the Atlantic Technology AT-2, but I don't know how well that would match with your current speakers.
> 
> Does your receiver have the ability to create a 'phantom' center? If so, that might be your best option. I personally don't think they work as well as a real center does, but it may be worth considering.


I had a look at the AT-2 and it goes down to very low frequency output.
May be I ought to ask a more "fundamental" question. Center speaker handles the speech section and that should be enough with less than 200Hz to may be 2.5KHz. So why do we need a full range speaker. Once I understand this may be I can move on.
Thanks


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

theJman said:


> The OP's original question was about a center that would timbre/voice match with his current speakers. Bass loading is a minor consideration in respect to what he is attempting to achieve.


Yes. I have been saying that, too.



wtaylorbasil said:


> May be I ought to ask a more "fundamental" question. Center speaker handles the speech section and that should be enough with less than 200Hz to may be 2.5KHz. So why do we need a full range speaker.


There is more in the center channel than voice.. Having a speaker with a very limited range (e.g., 200Hz to 2.5KHz) in and of itself will severely limit its abilities to maintain a consistent timbre match across the front.


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## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

Kal Rubinson said:


> I would look for British speakers of the vintage with KEF/Bradford mids/woofers and KEF/Celestion/STC HF drivers.


As I have responded to theJman in my post 8. Do I need a full range speaker to match?
Can you help me understand this philosophy?
Thanks


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

wtaylorbasil said:


> As I have responded to theJman in my post 8. Do I need a full range speaker to match?


Answered in Post #9. I use three identical floor-standing full range speakers across the front for L/C/R and smaller floor standers for surround.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Agree with Kal the bass loading shouldn't be a consideration. Finding a center speaker with similar drivers and physical layout might be difficult if not impossible. There is a DIY option of finding a single TLS80 and hacking it up into a center. Otherwise, just buy a modern center or small bookshelf with a poly midbass and soft dome tweeter and let your Onkyo do its auto eq setup and see how close a match it can get timbrally. Not the end of world if not perfect match.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Early Spendors used the same HF with Bextrene woofer/mid. Might work.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Tech specs on the speakers

Technical specifications
Years manufactured: 1977-1981
Original MSRP: 630 british pounds
Drivers: KEF B139, KEF B110A, Celestion HF1300, Celestion HF2000
Recommended Power: 50-100 Watts
Efficiency: Approximately 85dB depending on tilt control
Crossover: 375Hz, 3.5kHz, 13kHz
Vented, Sealed: Transmission Line (info)
Frequency Response: 20hz to beyond audibility
Dimensions (on supplied stands): 41.75" (H) x 18" (W) x 15.75" (D)
Weight: 37kg each, 45kg with stands

With that info you can look on EBAY UK for a Celestion F48C or a KEF Cresta


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

wtaylorbasil said:


> I had a look at the AT-2 and it goes down to very low frequency output. May be I ought to ask a more "fundamental" question. Center speaker handles the speech section and that should be enough with less than 200Hz to may be 2.5KHz. So why do we need a full range speaker. Once I understand this may be I can move on.


The center is known mostly for voices but it does handle quite a bit more than that. Even if all it did was voices males can reach down to the 80Hz range so stopping at 200Hz would lead to a very thin sound.




wtaylorbasil said:


> As I have responded to theJman in my post 8. Do I need a full range speaker to match? Can you help me understand this philosophy?


Ideally you want to match your left and right to the center as the front 3 constitute the vast majority of the soundtrack from traditional 5/7.1 systems. For example, you don't want to have a center with a horn tweeter and left/right speakers with a soft dome tweeter as their voicing wouldn't be consistent. To the best of your ability you want to match the performance, capability and drivers across the front 3.

Given your situation it might be worth considering that phantom center option. In essence it takes the output that would have gone to a center channel and blends it into the left and right channel to create the illusion of a physical center speaker. Since it's unlikely you'll be able to match your current speakers it may a workable compromise.


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