# How to get a big Hollywoodish mix?



## trifidmaster (Nov 18, 2006)

I try to achieve a sound like:

http://www.eastwestsamples.com/details.php?cd_index=1030 and listen to the 1st track: *After the fall*

I have many of those samples, and even more, so that is not an issue.

Any advice is very much welcome.


----------



## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

In all honesty, the best answer is to use your ears....

Without a sample of what you're working on, it's hard to say what you may want to do.


----------



## chonc (Jun 9, 2009)

I agree with Astral Plane. If you have a mix already done and think that there's something missing to have a big sound, it is best to hear your work in progress so that you can have the best advice.

If, on the other hand, you are to begin a project and want to start with the best foot there are some things you should take in consideration:

First you should be very well informed in the way you orchestrate, maybe even have some knowledge of orchestration for real instruments. 
Each virtual instrument or sample collection has its own nuisances, so you emulate the performance in different ways. 
There is a book named Midi Orchestration, I can't remember the author, but I'm sure it's not difficult to get. That is a good start point.

Second: if you listen carefully to any demo of any sample collection you'll notice that the composer works well within the limitations of any given sample collection or virtual instrument. There is not a perfect orchestra "emulator", so you have to know the limitations because the moment that you exceed that limitation your musical arrangement will sound fake no matter how well your final mix sounds. Other things that a demo composer always do is highlight the instrument strong qualities. You should do that always too. If a particular virtual instrument has, for example, a nice realistic sample of a french horn crescendo, then you should incorporate that to your composition.

If you notice these are all advices about the music itself. If you have a strong arrangement going on, it will be fairly easy to get a big sounding mix.


----------



## fractile (Mar 15, 2009)

It seems to me the whole Hollywood/Mo-Town/Phil Specter wall-of-sound is about having an orchestral background; strings, maybe horns, kettle drums... and big yet soft reverb on the whole mix.


----------



## trifidmaster (Nov 18, 2006)

Thanks ofr the comments!

I have many books including the:
The guide to midi orchestration from Paul Gilreath Amazon.com: The Guide to MIDI Orchestration 4e (9780240814131): Paul Gilreath: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@41SIoLOFbEL,

Rimsky Korzakov: The principles of orchestration Amazon.com: Principles of Orchestration (9780486212661): Nikolay Rimsky-Korsakov: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@51P59MSGAPL

Samule Adler: Study of orchestration Amazon.com: Study of Orchestration, Third Edition (9780393975727): Samuel Adler: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@518049XPP5L
....and many many more.

Yep, I use lots of articulations, and I play "live" all the lines into my DAW, and the mix is OK
BUT I miss that Big wall of sound.

I see that one part is a skillful orchestration, but another part of it is ????

I have a convolution reverb, I believe it can be big. What is a soft reverb?


----------



## fractile (Mar 15, 2009)

I think I meant fast reverb time, to preserve the time coherence, but with a big open reverb sound.

One thing about the 'wall of sound', if I am correct, is that it was recorded monophonically, instead of stereo, to add further cohesive bigness. This could be done in stereo if the panning is spread evenly across the left and right; a sort of gradient, instead of hard panning of all the instruments.

Also, like Carlos said, having that big strong orchestral back-up. Not necessarily complex, but dramatic accents.

For amusement, here's the Greatful Dead's wall of sound:


----------



## trifidmaster (Nov 18, 2006)

fractile,
Could you please elaborate more on the:

"fast reverb time, to preserve the time coherence, but with a big open reverb sound".


----------



## chonc (Jun 9, 2009)

trifidmaster:

Can you post a link (or a zipped mp3) of the work in question (or a fragment), so that we can hear more clearly what you think is missing?

My guess is that you're probably using too much instruments and/or they are too busy all the time, at the time of mixing that makes everything sound smaller... Hearing the demo you linked to before, I can tell you the instrumentation is fairly simple, just an acoustic guitar some strings doing obstinato figures with a staccato articulation with occasional brass swelling and stabbing for dramatic accents, the percussion bringing it all together and the voice doing the melody. Then again I can only guess what your issue with your sound is without hearing the piece...


----------



## fractile (Mar 15, 2009)

trifidmaster said:


> fractile,
> Could you please elaborate more on the:
> 
> "fast reverb time, to preserve the time coherence, but with a big open reverb sound".


I've been going more by an image in my head than the example in the link you provided, so I don't know how far off base I'm getting. Your example has the sound of an opera house or concert hall, giving an epic cinematic effect, while what I was thinking of was a more outdoors sound, like listening to P.A. horns from a distance, having a reverb without the "slap-back" from the walls of an interior space. Maybe you are looking for an epic cinematic sound more than a classic sixties pop AM radio sound. In that case I would go for the Concertgebow setting on your convolution reverb. Or a large cathedral for the more dramatic sound of stone compared with wooden tones.

And then, your example reminds me of classic Hollywood, like Ben Hur. There is what I think of as a more contemporary sound in the opening theme music of (particularly the later) James Bond movies, from Pinewood Studios.  The dynamic in those is a more animated imaginary space.

I think those are the general options in the direction you may want to take.


----------



## 0bazooka_joe0 (Mar 22, 2010)

Generally reverb doesnt really exist outdoors. the only surface for anything to reflect off of is the ground and that my friend is the most absorptive of all surfaces (or one of the most). any "post-source reflections" you hear outdoors is more of a delay. that, however, is assuming there are some variances in topology around you (ie mountains, trees...) so maybe a tiny like 2-3% of a medium verb to glue the orchestra and then a delay with some mild feedback but low in the mix.


----------



## 0bazooka_joe0 (Mar 22, 2010)

Have you ever been outside in the winter, while or after a good calm snowfall in the country? the silence is deafening. If you talk, it's like being in an anechoic chamber. very creepy. Theoretically the best place to have a mastering studio would be completely outdoors in the middle of Saskatchewan on a completely calm day because there is no reverb or delay. at all. but alas, we live on earth and earth likes to blow and rain 8P


----------



## fractile (Mar 15, 2009)

I experienced snow once, long ago. I recall the snowman and snowballs but not the sound. :woohoo:

I think, otherwise, sound will have a *distributed* reverb effect outdoors, depending on the surface between the source and listener; whether it's the water of a lake, a paved surface, a beach, or a grassy field. In other words, the sum total reflection of the sound will have a continuous attenuation along the line between the source and listener, from the many distributed reflections along that line. This combined with the direct sound transmitted from the source.

Just to cover all the bases.


----------

