# Minidsp Dirac Live mutichannel



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi I have system that consists of a Yamaha Z9 http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/stereo-receivers/rx-z9_black__u/ + Denon 3910 http://assets.denon.com/documentmaster/us/dvd3910_ownersmanual.pdf

Can someone please suggest a Minidsp Dirac Live multichannel unit that I could purchase.
Please keep in mind I listen to a lot 2 channel

Thanks in advance


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Phillips said:


> Hi I have system that consists of a Yamaha Z9 http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/hifi-components/stereo-receivers/rx-z9_black__u/ + Denon 3910 http://assets.denon.com/documentmaster/us/dvd3910_ownersmanual.pdf
> 
> Can someone please suggest a Minidsp Dirac Live multichannel unit that I could purchase.
> Please keep in mind I listen to a lot 2 channel
> ...



NanoAVR DL before the Denon: no additional AD or DA conversions, can only process LPCM, 48 kHz sample rate limit (up to 192k is downsampled to 48k), 2 HDMI inputs (1.2?, 1.3? *not* 2.0)
DDRC88A after the Denon: 96 kHz sample rate limit (up to 192k is downsampled to 96k), additional AD and DA conversions, no limit on types of input data & processing into the Denon, no limit on HDMI inputs


----------



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks Wayne my inputs & outputs are limited on both the Yamaha Z9 receiver and Denon 3910 DVD player, no HDMI.

Any ideas for connection, currently using ilink

Thanks again


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Phillips said:


> Thanks Wayne my inputs & outputs are limited on both the Yamaha Z9 receiver and Denon 3910 DVD player, no HDMI.
> 
> Any ideas for connection, currently using ilink
> 
> Thanks again





AudiocRaver said:


> NanoAVR DL before the Denon: no additional AD or DA conversions, can only process LPCM, 48 kHz sample rate limit (up to 192k is downsampled to 48k), 2 HDMI inputs (1.2?, 1.3? *not* 2.0)
> DDRC88A after the Denon: 96 kHz sample rate limit (up to 192k is downsampled to 96k), additional AD and DA conversions, no limit on types of input data & processing into the Denon, no limit on HDMI inputs


Oops, I see I got Denon and Yamaha mixed up in my answer. And I assumed HDMI in the Yamaha. Imagine my surprise!

Lets try again:
I believe I saw pre outs and amp inputs on the back of the Yamaha, right? So you are back to the DDRC88A if you want Dirac on a surround system. If your only concern was 2 ch Dirac, you could use the DDRC-22D on the input side, 96 kHz sample rate limit (see previous explanation), but that stops all non-LPCM processing.

Sorry about the previous hurried answer, it made no sense at all!


----------



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Thanks Wayne, no worries

Yes the Yamaha Z9 has pre-out-inputs for the front two and centre but no rears.

Any other ideas?

Thanks again


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

I think I would go with a DDRC - 22 D on the input side for 2.0 or 2.1 application and possibly for your red left and right in a surround configuration, not worry about the rest of the speakers, use delay settings to match them all up in time. Or go with fewer surround speakers and the DDRC88A on the output side. You could always add an external amplification for that last couple of speakers.


----------



## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

DDRC - 22 D for 2 channel DIRAC LIVE

If it were my system , I would consider 2 options 

A. a multi channel amp like the EMOTIVA XPA5 ($899) add XPA2 (for 7.x system @ $720) use the pre-outs of the Yamaha > DDRC-88A > Emotiva amps.:spend:

B. a new HDMI receiver - a more modest investment :clap:

I assume that you have, at least, considered a new receiver since you have the money to put down on a MiniDSP unit...:whistling:

You ONLY LIVE ONCE - Go for the Emotivas and the DDRC88A !!


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

RTS100x5 said:


> DDRC - 22 D for 2 channel DIRAC LIVE
> 
> If it were my system , I would consider 2 options
> 
> ...


I gotta admit, a Home Theater without HDMI is hard to picture. That sounds like the right first step to me.


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

RTS100x5 said:


> A. a multi channel amp like the EMOTIVA XPA5 ($899) add XPA2 (for 7.x system @ $720) use the pre-outs of the Yamaha > DDRC-88A > Emotiva amps.:spend:


Since the Z9 has pre-amp outputs and amp inputs for the L/R/C channels, he’d only need a two or four channel amp (depending on the number of surround channels he’s using), not a full-blown 7-channel model.

My only concern with the DDRC-88 is that miniDSP does not publish a noise spec for it, as a quiet noise floor is critical for an outboard equalizer. Have you or someone you know used one?

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Phillips said:


> Can someone please suggest a Minidsp Dirac Live multichannel unit that I could purchase.
> Please keep in mind I listen to a lot 2 channel


Are you unhappy with your AntiMode equalizer?

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> My only concern with the DDRC-88 is that miniDSP does not publish a noise spec for it, as a quiet noise floor is critical for an outboard equalizer.


They do in the product brief, 105 dB SNR. Linked here.


----------



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi guys thank you for your advice

The Z9 is a stayer 

Maybe look at the DDRC-88A use it for the fronts + centre.

The Antimode EQ is good but think I could do better. Option would be to get the DDRC - 22A for the front two and use the Antimode for the centre?

Thanks again


----------



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

AudiocRaver said:


> I think I would go with a DDRC - 22 D on the input side for 2.0 or 2.1 application and possibly for your red left and right in a surround configuration, not worry about the rest of the speakers, use delay settings to match them all up in time. Or go with fewer surround speakers and the DDRC88A on the output side. You could always add an external amplification for that last couple of speakers.


Hi Wayne you say 2.1, how do get this with the DDRC-22D, hook up?

Might be missing something here.
Thanks again


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Phillips said:


> Hi Wayne you say 2.1, how do get this with the DDRC-22D, hook up?
> 
> Might be missing something here.
> Thanks again


I was assuming the DDRC-22D on the input side of an AVR, and with the AVR providing bass management.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

AudiocRaver said:


> I was assuming the DDRC-22D on the input side of an AVR, and with the AVR providing bass management.


Some of us feel that putting BM after the EQ is a big compromise.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Some of us feel that putting BM after the EQ is a big compromise.


Indeed, & I believe I understand the reasons for saying that. As a practical matter, and with some thoughtful use of DL individual target curves, a pretty satisfactory result can be had.


----------



## jtalden (Mar 12, 2009)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Some of us feel that putting BM after the EQ is a big compromise.





AudiocRaver said:


> Indeed, & I believe I understand the reasons for saying that. As a practical matter, and with some thoughtful use of DL individual target curves, a pretty satisfactory result can be had.


Just curious; why is this a concern? I haven't seen this mentioned before.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

jtalden said:


> Just curious; why is this a concern? I haven't seen this mentioned before.


My understanding is that with BM before the Dirac Live, then DL is being applied to individual driver amps/channels, giving the best control and most predictable result. With DL before BM, DL's affect on low frequencies is not as clear cut, affecting both of the channels that feed into the BM. If designing or building a new "idealized" system, BM before DL is probably the ideal to shoot for.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

AudiocRaver said:


> My understanding is that with BM before the Dirac Live, then DL is being applied to individual driver amps/channels, giving the best control and most predictable result. With DL before BM, DL's affect on low frequencies is not as clear cut, affecting both of the channels that feed into the BM. If designing or building a new "idealized" system, BM before DL is probably the ideal to shoot for.


Agreed.


----------



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi guys thank you

Maybe the DDRC 22A would be better?

Or maybe get the DDRC 88A? for any updates in the future for gear?
Do I have to use all the channels in the 88A?

Thanks you


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

No, you may use only the desired channels.


----------



## jtalden (Mar 12, 2009)

AudiocRaver said:


> My understanding is that with BM before the Dirac Live, then DL is being applied to individual driver amps/channels, giving the best control and most predictable result. With DL before BM, DL's affect on low frequencies is not as clear cut, affecting both of the channels that feed into the BM. If designing or building a new "idealized" system, BM before DL is probably the ideal to shoot for.


That makes sense. Thanks for the explanation.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

AudiocRaver said:


> àffecting both of the channels that feed into the BM


I was thinking two channel. It is really all of the channels in a surround system. It works, but only after mixing together 8 channels previously EQed. Better to mix together the 8 channels then apply EQ to the result once with one set of filters. That is what would happen with BM coming before DL.


----------

