# How to get the most out of a store's demo room



## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

I noticed there isn't a comprehensive post yet for how to get the most out of a store demo room. I thought it would be a good idea so I'm posting this. Please add your 2¢ and once it's done maybe we'll have a sticky to point members to with general rules of thumb. 

1) bring your own demo material:
A small collection of well recorded/mastered CDs and Movies can help you know what to expect from a speaker system. Bring some songs you know by heart. I usually recommend simple acoustic tracks with clear male and female vocals. Ideally the track will have good stereo separation/soundstage.

2) listen to the same songs on all the speakers you're listening to. 

3) tell the salesperson to adjust the volume to a level you're comfortable with or ask for the remote and do it yourself. 

4) listen without a subwoofer at first. Make sure the system is set to stereo or direct/pure direct. 

5) don't talk and tell the salesman to keep quiet while you're listening. 

6) use the same AVR the whole time. 

7) go during slow times of business, early on a weekday so you're not competing with other customers for use of the space. 

8) if your not buying that day let the salesperson know that and be respectful of their time/room. If you're monopolizing their time you're potentially costing them money. 

9) listen to the salesperson's advice, even if you don't follow it, they work with this stuff and they may surprise you. 

10) try to go a different times of day. You're hearing gets progressively worse as the day goes on. What's loud to you when you wake up May not seem loud before bed. Think before/after a rock concert.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Good advice. I would also say to try to listen at approximately the same volume and understand that speakers are rarely, if ever, placed optimally in a showroom.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I went as far as creating a playlist of 50 certain tracks that are perfect for demo of speakers and it's on my iPhone where ever I go. If a store won't let me hook up my own music then I simply walk out.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I also will walk out the door if the salesman bad mouths any brand of equipment I already own. They don't have to give it praise but they never should bad mouth it IMO.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

ellisr63 said:


> I also will walk out the door if the salesman bad mouths any brand of equipment I already own. They don't have to give it praise but they never should bad mouth it IMO.


There's a difference between trashing something to make your product look good and respectfully informing a customer that their are better options than what is in current use. 

A great example if the latter from my personal experience was a shop keeper at a local HiFi in a New Orleans suburb. He was very knowledgable but if you didn't own what he was selling he would go off about why what you have is inferior. I had gone in to inquire about a restored fisher tube amp he was selling. We talked for a moment and he asked what speakers I had. I responded Martin Logan Vantages. His response was to quickly tell me that the only good speakers they ever produced were the CLS line. The then went on to explain to me in the most patronizing tone how I needed Maggies or I wouldn't have very good sound because if the crossover network in my tower. Needless to say he talked himself out if a sale, and even soured me to most of his line because I would have to deal with him. 

On the flip side I do feel its good to be honest about performance and to set realistic expectations about performance. Sometimes that does mean telling people things they don't want to hear.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

rab-byte said:


> There's a difference between trashing something to make your product look good and respectfully informing a customer that their are better options than what is in current use.
> 
> A great example if the latter from my personal experience was a shop keeper at a local HiFi in a New Orleans suburb. He was very knowledgable but if you didn't own what he was selling he would go off about why what you have is inferior. I had gone in to inquire about a restored fisher tube amp he was selling. We talked for a moment and he asked what speakers I had. I responded Martin Logan Vantages. His response was to quickly tell me that the only good speakers they ever produced were the CLS line. The then went on to explain to me in the most patronizing tone how I needed Maggies or I wouldn't have very good sound because if the crossover network in my tower. Needless to say he talked himself out if a sale, and even soured me to most of his line because I would have to deal with him.
> 
> On the flip side I do feel its good to be honest about performance and to set realistic expectations about performance. Sometimes that does mean telling people things they don't want to hear.


That is exactly what I don't like... I remember years ago going to Keith Yates Audio (a fine high end store), and I was told that the salesperson is not allowed to talk trash about any product that you might own. They were only to inform you of what they had and how it might be better. It was also the Store where I learned more about Audio than I had in any other store.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

rab-byte said:


> There's a difference between trashing something to make your product look good and respectfully informing a customer that their are better options than what is in current use.
> 
> A great example if the latter from my personal experience was a shop keeper at a local HiFi in a New Orleans suburb. He was very knowledgable but if you didn't own what he was selling he would go off about why what you have is inferior. I had gone in to inquire about a restored fisher tube amp he was selling. We talked for a moment and he asked what speakers I had. I responded Martin Logan Vantages. His response was to quickly tell me that the only good speakers they ever produced were the CLS line. The then went on to explain to me in the most patronizing tone how I needed Maggies or I wouldn't have very good sound because if the crossover network in my tower. Needless to say he talked himself out if a sale, and even soured me to most of his line because I would have to deal with him.
> 
> On the flip side I do feel its good to be honest about performance and to set realistic expectations about performance. Sometimes that does mean telling people things they don't want to hear.


I had the same experience, also in New Orleans at a little place behind Lake Side Mall. I don't know if that's the one your talking about, but the owner there gave me a bad taste in my mouth! Lol


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

pddufrene said:


> I had the same experience, also in New Orleans at a little place behind Lake Side Mall. I don't know if that's the one your talking about, but the owner there gave me a bad taste in my mouth! Lol


Yep, Doug Wilson of Wilson Audio.


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

Maybe a few more:


Dress like you deserve some attention.
If they don't give you the time of day, don't give them your time or money.
Don't use them for a demo and then buy online.
Remember that service can vary wildly depending on which salesman you choose. Hang back and listen to different salesmen for a bit before choosing one.
Avoid high pressure salesmen like the plague. 
Setting an appointment up may be a good idea.
Find out what the salesman is bias towards and be aware of that. They may be trying to sell you in a specific direction.
Get more than one demo of the products you are narrowing down on.
NEVER, NEVER let them play their own music - unless you are familiar with the recording. They alway pull out crazy stuff that makes it impossible to judge a speaker/system.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

rab-byte said:


> Yep, Doug Wilson of Wilson Audio.


Yap, that's him! I kinda figured that's what you were gonna say, that's the only one I could think of in the N.O. area.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The only thing I extensively audition is speakers.
There is so little difference in the electronics it is not worth it to me to spend time listening for air.
I only take three songs maximum initially, once the field is narrowed to no more than three I might introduce more tracks for consideration.
I only listen with processing/EQ turned off, speakers large, no subwoofer.
I concentrate on the front mains first.
Then the center.
If those pass muster the in family surrounds will be fine.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Good feedback!
I think ultimately auditioning comes down to taking you time, thinking though your purchases, and being respectful of a salesman's time. 

I'll amend the initial post in a while. Please everyone keep your feedback coming. If we can put together a comprehensive guide for first time buyers that focuses on getting the most out of store time I think it would be a real boon for new members.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Pointing out "superior" features or build quality of a product is a salesman's job.
Bad mouthing other products is annoying and a pet peeve of mine.
Salesman using pseudo electrical theory is either amusing or the kiss of death depending on my mood and their overall attitude.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

rab-byte said:


> Good feedback!
> I think ultimately auditioning comes down to taking you time, thinking though your purchases, and being respectful of a salesman's time.
> 
> I'll amend the initial post in a while. Please everyone keep your feedback coming. If we can put together a comprehensive guide for first time buyers that focuses on getting the most out of store time I think it would be a real boon for new members.


There is nothing wrong with the first post.
If this becomes a stickey thread you might consider a consolidation, but your initial post is solid.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

chashint said:


> Pointing out "superior" features or build quality of a product is a salesman's job. Bad mouthing other products is annoying and a pet peeve of mine. Salesman using pseudo electrical theory is either amusing or the kiss of death depending on my mood and their overall attitude.


When I was starting in sales before moving to installation side I was all about pseudo tech. 


Maybe an addendum "picking your salesman"... lol

Part 1:
Best practices

Part 2:
Dealing with sales staff

Part 3:
Links to other sticks (terms/cable types/equipment classifications)


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

chashint said:


> The only thing I extensively audition is speakers.
> There is so little difference in the electronics it is not worth it to me to spend time listening for air.
> I only take three songs maximum initially, once the field is narrowed to no more than three I might introduce more tracks for consideration.
> I only listen with processing/EQ turned off, speakers large, no subwoofer.
> ...


I completely agree. Conditions are so different from room to room it is very hard to eval speakers. How could you ever objectively evaluate non-speaker components? Would you have to have the same speakers as they have in the showroom with a similar room? I believe that speakers(adequately driven) shape at least 80% of the sound quality maybe 90%.

I find it laughable that a person can goto a conference and come away with opinions on "speaker cables". 

Was the intent of this thread only for speakers? Any advice on how one could objectively demo the sound quality of non-speaker components?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

blitzer said:


> Any advice on how one could objectively demo the sound quality of non-speaker components?


The more blue lights the better they sound


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> The more blue lights the better they sound


And if there's dancing needles it's even better

This was primarily speakers. I suppose it's not unreasonable to assume amplification will play into this as well but for the sake of argument is just settle for using the same amp/AVR to drive all the speakers being listened to. 

Maybe establishing a budget for the amp and using that for all demos if appropriate???


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Anything over $2000 would yield no audible difference in quality so for sure keep it under that.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Anything over $2000 would yield no audible difference in quality so for sure keep it under that.


Are you referring to speakers or amplification?
I can't say I'd agree with you on either part. You have lots of factors that go into a whole system. It's true most people do not require the Denom AVR4520ci let alone a McIntosh equipment stack, or Krell Amps, or Wilson Alexanders towers. But I think it's reaching to say there is no difference. I do agree that with CE as a whole it is a game of diminishing returns. The difference between what $500 and $1,000 will get you is much bigger than the performance difference between $5,000 and $10,000. 

But for the purposes of this thread I'm focusing on best practices for utilizing demo rooms in retail space; avoiding pricing/model discussion in favor of finding a format for comparison.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

rab-byte said:


> And if there's dancing needles it's even better


Hey don't diss the dancing needles ....that's 90% of my McIntosh lust ... LOL


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

rab-byte said:


> Are you referring to speakers or amplification?


Amplification/receivers

Remember that most people that come looking for equipment have a limited budget so $2K is a good max number. Spending more on speakers is very possible and advisable if your looking at a full 5 or 7.1 system


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

$2000 per foot of speaker cable. Anything over that, you are just wasting you time.


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

Seriously... Spending more than $2000 on front speakers is mandatory in my mind.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

The fact you have that sub as your pic tells me that


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

blitzer said:


> $2000 per foot of speaker cable. Anything over that, you are just wasting you time.


Absolutely. I never charge more than $2000 per foot for the custom cables that I build.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

It's cool that no one gouges on cables.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

I know there are only about 50+ threads dedicated to good demo discs but could I get everyone to recommend 1-3 tracks they use to audition speakers, and what you listen for in these songs?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

You can find some good ideas in our track listing from the speaker reviews.


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