# Subwoofer choice question



## Guest (Sep 26, 2008)

I am in the process of building my home theater. The theater room is 15 x 20 feet with sloping of the side walls resulting in room height of between 6 and 10 feet.

I want to use 2 subs in the room, placed in the front of the room out of view. (Behind side walls / screen wall) In a room of this width, the research I've done suggests placement of the subs approximately 4 feet from the left and right side walls in order to be in the 'null' area.

My options are as follows. Place the subs as described above. This would limit me to 2 of the sb12-plus subs, as I only have about 14-15 inches behind my screen wall. Alternatively, if I place a sub in each front corner, I could go with a couple of the cylinder subs as there is more room here because the screen wall does not extend that far out.

I plan on using the room for 75 percent movies, 25 percent music.

Help!!

Thanks.

Kevin


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Kevin, in that large a room for impressive theatrical effects I'd select one of SVS's ported subs.

I have a pair of SB12s myself and although they are very musical, their output is quite a bit less than the ported subs. The charts in this thread can help you see the differences:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/6656-subwoofer-tests-fall-2007-a.html

Is your screen wall really a wall that goes all the way down to the floor, or do you mean a screen hanging from the ceiling -- if so, how much space is there between the bottom of the screen and the floor? PB10's are only 15" high if turned on their sides; PB12's only 18".

Another option would be to lay cylinders on their sides.

It's good that you are planning on two subs, and that you are aware of room acoustics. Plan on getting a sound level meter and a some test tones at a minimum to help you set up your room.


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## robbroy (Oct 19, 2006)

kes7u said:


> I plan on using the room for 75 percent movies, 25 percent music.


If those numbers were reversed, I'd say go with the SB12-Pluses. I have a SB12Plus for a music only application and it's great, but it doesn't touch my PB13-Ultras for movies. I'd recommend a couple of cylinders.

-Robb


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## Jack Gilvey (May 8, 2006)

Hey Kevin,

Great ideas all around as usual. In that room, I think you'd benefit greatly from a pair of ported cylinders. As suggested, they can be placed on their sides if that helps fit them in better. A pair of the new PC-Plus would be killer in that space.

While the SB12-Plus is about as good as it gets in that small a box, physics applies rather strict limits to its output in the deepest bass and it's not my first choice for LFE tracks in a big room.


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## Guest (Sep 28, 2008)

Thank you everyone for your replies!

OK. In terms of space and budget limitations, I have come up with the following:

1) Pair of pb10-nsd subs
2) Pair of 25-31 pci subs tuned to 20Hz and placed on their sides

Opinions on the preceding based on my situation??

Thanks again everyone!

Kevin


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Kevin, if your listening usage were mostly music I'd go with the two PB10s. But for theater effects the cylinders are the better choice.

Which still leaves you with an interesting choice. The current 25-31Pci is being clearanced for $499.
But the preorder price on the new PC12-NSD is only $50 more (but they are a couple months away).
I'd call or email SVS and see what they say.


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

my bad. Since, i'll be using mostly for movies, what do you think about getting the PC12-NSD which the salesman also recommended? would that be better than pb10 but also drive my neighbors nuts?


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## minuccims (Dec 14, 2008)

Hi, I purchased a new PC12-NSD at the end of November. It's awsome. I sent SVS (Ed for me) my room layout and spent the next eight months asking many technical and subjective questions on new and used SVS subs. Funny, I never thought of Ed as a salesman but as guide or teacher to educate me in how to select a sub. Although my main listening area is small, about 12'(l) x10'(w) x8'(h), the "front" wall opens up after 6.5'. The toital volume is about 2700 ft3. With that said, the PC12-NSD exceeds all of my expectations. I listen about 75 HT /25 music but I am actually listening to much more music with this sub than ever. I would expect most on this forum to suggest two PC12-NSDs because of the price break right now. Best of luck with you selection process!! Mark


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

minuccims said:


> Hi, I purchased a new PC12-NSD at the end of November. It's awsome. I sent SVS (Ed for me) my room layout and spent the next eight months asking many technical and subjective questions on new and used SVS subs. Funny, I never thought of Ed as a salesman but as guide or teacher to educate me in how to select a sub. Although my main listening area is small, about 12'(l) x10'(w) x8'(h), the "front" wall opens up after 6.5'. The toital volume is about 2700 ft3. With that said, the PC12-NSD exceeds all of my expectations. I listen about 75 HT /25 music but I am actually listening to much more music with this sub than ever. I would expect most on this forum to suggest two PC12-NSDs because of the price break right now. Best of luck with you selection process!! Mark


This is really helpful since my room is about the same size and i have the same situation with the actual viewing area. mine is 15 by 10 by 8, but opens to the dining area with a small kitchen off of it. I might splurge and get the SB12 because there is free shipping so it ends up not being much more and i could save space that i don't have. thanks.


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## minuccims (Dec 14, 2008)

doctorraoul said:


> This is really helpful since my room is about the same size and i have the same situation with the actual viewing area. mine is 15 by 10 by 8, but opens to the dining area with a small kitchen off of it. I might splurge and get the SB12 because there is free shipping so it ends up not being much more and i could save space that i don't have. thanks.


Yup, your floor layout is similar. Seems like the SB12-plus with an extra 100 watts is a solid choice. I've noticed a few times the SVS guys will recommend a sub (for a given floor layout and listening preferences) that is a model down from what the forum member was interested in. You may want to ask SVS what the differences will be between the two subs you're interested in. Also, if you don't have the gear to calibrate (e.g. SPL meter and AVIA disk) your HT system, that's another $80 more. Even though my Yamaha HTR-6090 has the built in optimiser for automated speaker channel calibration, it has been off with the distance estimates for the sub and center channel, well as levels. I now use the meter and a DVD disk with audio noise/tones on it as the primary means to calibrate all speaker channels.


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Guys, you can usually assume the more you pay for an SVS sub the better it is -- but the SB12-Plus is kind of an exception to this as it was designed for a specific purpose.

The SB12-Plus was designed for folks who absolutely positively did not have room for a 3 to 5 cubic foot bass reflex cabinet. In my opinion it excels in two applications: In small rooms with very limited space like dorm rooms, and as an add-on woofer in music applications.

SVS is up front about it's relative performance on the SB12-Plus product page:

"So, if you can "afford" one of our bigger subs... from the standpoint of the larger floor space requirement ... by all means, consider something of a similar price class, such as the PB12-Plus, or even one that's less expensive like the (large) new PB12-NSD. 

If you need room rattling power, the ultimate depth, AND want a small footprint too? Then our exclusive space-saving Powered Cylinder subs should be on your short list to evaluate. Few brands will be honest about this point: "size matters" ... with subwoofers. Even if perfectly designed, no truly small sub like the SB12-Plus will compete with an equally well-designed large subwoofer (particularly if it's one of our super-efficient vented subwoofers such as those mentioned just above). Physics is an unforgiving master."

Let's look at that performance chart I linked to in an earlier post (you might want to open this in a new browser window so you can look back and forth from this post to the chart easily):
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-subwoofers/6656-subwoofer-tests-fall-2007-a.html
The different charts are the same data sorted in different orders. We'll use the first chart.
Compare the 15th line down, the SVS PB12-NSD (new), with the 30th line down, the SVS SB12-Plus.

As examples let's look at two frequencies, 20Hz and 40Hz. At 20Hz, the SB12-Plus can play 86.3 dB, and the new version PB12-NSD can play 102 dB. To get the same distortion limited output at 20 Hz as one PB12-NSD you would have to co-locate 5 (five) SB12s. At 40Hz, the SB12-Plus produces 104.4 dB while the PB12-NSD produces 109.8 dB, so it would only take two co-located SB12s to equal one PB12-NSD.

Unless you absolutely do not have the space, SVS bass reflex design subs like the PB12-NSD will give you a two to five (or more) times performance advantage over the SB12-Plus.


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