# Arcam vs Emotiva



## bogiedr

Greetings everyone. I have not posted seeking opinions in a while, I have been happy with my set up, but as always, the upgrade bug has bitten and with uncle Sam giving away money :whistling: ... UPGRADE TIME!!!
Currently running a Yamaha Aventage 700 as pre / pro, NAD T955 power amp, Oppo 93 BDP, Thiel CS3 front, Thiel CS2 rears, Focal 700 center and HSU VTF 12 sub. Oh, Panny 60' plasma. I have been offered a new in box, (old stock from an authorized dealer), Arcam AVP 700 pre / pro and a P 1000 amp for slightly above half price, full warranty of course. I realize these units first made the scene in 2005, probably obsolete pre / pro by now? my concern is the video processing capabilities of the 700. On the other hand, I am also considering the Emotiva XTC-5 power amp and the Emotiva UNC-1, if I can find one! If not I'd match the XTC-5 with something like a Marantz AVR 7005 as a pre / pro. The Marantz / Emotiva comes at a much lower price with a 30 day no brainer send it back no questions asked warranty on the Emotiva's. As an added bonus, for those that actually pay attention to little things, Stereophile Magazine just named the Emotiva as a class B component and placed it on their list of the best 700 components available. onder: I will like to hear your thoughts out there. I know there are a lot of Emotiva fans here but I have found this forum members to be fair in their assesment of equipment, so there it is! I will stop, take a breath and let you folks drive the conversation. By the way, I like the Thiel set up too much, no plans to "downgrade" speakers. :bigsmile:
Hit them straight!!!


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## bogiedr

Sorry, meant Emotiva XPA-5 and HSU STF-2. Spent too much time driving the Z3 around Jungle Jacks part of the world, must be crazy from the sun! :coocoo:


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## GranteedEV

As far as the analogue circuitry goes, the Emotiva stuff is a very fine choice, plain and simple.

Where you might run into question marks, is with their software on the prepro. That said the XMC-1 sure does look nice.

My choice for electronics, for what it's worth, would be

Denon 4312 + Crown XLS2000 to power stereo mains, and keep the NAD to power everything else.


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## TypeA

I love the Marantz AV7005 but the Denon AVR-4311CI seems to have it beat in so many ways. You can disable internal amps and use it as just a pre/pro if thats what youre seeking. Surprised you have the STF-2 paired with such stellar speakers, have you considered upgrading your sub? Nice thing about Hsu subs is they have high level inputs so you can still make use of that STF-2 in a zone two rig


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## bogiedr

Hi guys.
Granteed, I will probably keep the NAD as a backup JUST in case something goes wrong at some point. Electronics sometimes go nutty for no reason and two week turn around periods for repairs are really a bummer :hissyfit: The Aventage had a history of being finicky and acting up while it was used as an AVR. Just recently it started acting up again, but this time as the pre/pro. Since both NAD and Yamaha are under warranty, I have them both in the shop getting checked out. So it is time for a shake down :hsd:, I like your reccomendations but I want to move away from the NAD to something with more power. The Arcam came in at 135 watts and it is a 7 channel amp. The Emo is only a 5 channel, but pushes 200 watts, that will make the Thiels veeeery happy :bigsmile:. I can always add a second amp, (two channel), if I wanted to go 7.1 or 7.2. So although I am leaning towards the Emo and given up on Arcam, the Marantz separates sure look tempting :whistling:

TypeA, the HSU was the first sub added, before the Thiel set up was put together. I find that because the Thiels are so good and severely underated when talking bass response, the STF-2 does a very nice job. I have thought of adding a second HSU, just figured I would settle the electronics first, then finish the deal. Of course I am now intrigued by the Marantz separates ... it will really come down to Marantz vs Emotiva. The older Arcam technology scares me a bit, Marantz and Emotiva will not be obsolete for a little while. I know both of you reccomended Denon heartily, I have to admit, I have a phobia of Denon. I have never had a good piece of equipment from Denon and my luck with support from them has been less than undesirable. I guess more research on Emotiva and Marantz. Let's see where I end up!!

Thanks guys!


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## TypeA

bogiedr said:


> TypeA, the HSU was the first sub added, before the Thiel set up was put together. I find that because the Thiels are so good and severely underated when talking bass response, the STF-2 does a very nice job. I have thought of adding a second HSU, just figured I would settle the electronics first, then finish the deal. Of course I am now intrigued by the Marantz separates ... it will really come down to Marantz vs Emotiva. The older Arcam technology scares me a bit, Marantz and Emotiva will not be obsolete for a little while. I know both of you reccomended Denon heartily, I have to admit, I have a phobia of Denon. I have never had a good piece of equipment from Denon and my luck with support from them has been less than undesirable. I guess more research on Emotiva and Marantz. Let's see where I end up!!
> 
> Thanks guys!


You are absolutely going for nice sounding gear, in my ownership of the UMC-1, SR7002 and SR8002 I was very impressed with both these manufactures. If given the choice I would go with the Marantz just because of all the glowing reviews and the additional features it offers over the UMC-1.


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## GranteedEV

bogiedr said:


> The Emo is only a 5 channel, but pushes 200 watts, that will make the Thiels veeeery happy :bigsmile:. I can always add a second amp, (two channel), if I wanted to go 7.1 or 7.2. So although I am leaning towards the Emo and given up on Arcam, the Marantz separates sure look tempting :whistling:


Given my admittedly limited knowledge of the impedance curves on various theil speakers, I really would be looking at something that is > 1000w @ 2 ohm stable. I'm not convinced the XPA-5 has the current reserves those speakers really want. 1000w may sound like a lot, but it's really only 24db of gain for a 2 ohm speaker.


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## TypeA

GranteedEV said:


> Given my admittedly limited knowledge of the impedance curves on various theil speakers, I really would be looking at something that is > 1000w @ 2 ohm stable. I'm not convinced the XPA-5 has the current reserves those speakers really want. 1000w may sound like a lot, but it's really only 24db of gain for a 2 ohm speaker.


I seem to remember you and I talking about the gain structure of Marantz pre/pros as well. Something like my SR8002 gain is not published but Marantz is notorious of having less than normal levels in past models. Might explain why my XPA-5 is being driven at reference levels (according to the Marantz volume indicator anyway). Dont get me wrong, 'reference' is very loud but it still surprises me that I sometimes get that high on the dial :yay2:


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## GranteedEV

TypeA said:


> I seem to remember you and I talking about the gain structure of Marantz pre/pros as well. Something like my SR8002 gain is not published but Marantz is notorious of having less than normal levels in past models.


I'm pretty sure we were discussing preamp headroom, and how the marantz stuff had a huge amount of it, but I can't really remember.

But yea, that generation of Marantz prepros and even receivers had gobs of preout voltage.

I'd imagine the current generation would still have adequate preouts, but i've just never seen measurements. With the shift towards Denon / Marantz similarities I just don't know what to expect.


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## TypeA

Oh ok, _more_ preout voltage than normal, nice to know I remembered incorrectly lddude:


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## bogiedr

Ty, how happy are you with the Emotiva XPA 5? I am reeeaaally leaning heavily towards the Marantz 7005 pre / pro but can't bring myself to commit to the Amp. I keep reading glowing reviews on the XPA 5. The difference in price is only 200 bucks, but reviews make it sound like the Emo blows everything else out of the water. Your thoughts? Leaning towards XPA 5 and Marantz 7005, but your input as an experienced end user will be greatly appreciated!!!!
Hit them straight!!! onder:


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## spurdarren

I have an XPA-3 and I like it. Granted it is powering Klipsch RF-7II's and a RC-64II. I dont think you can really go wrong with Emotiva. I am using the XPA-3 with an Onkyo 3008.


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## TypeA

bogiedr said:


> Ty, how happy are you with the Emotiva XPA 5? I am reeeaaally leaning heavily towards the Marantz 7005 pre / pro but can't bring myself to commit to the Amp. I keep reading glowing reviews on the XPA 5. The difference in price is only 200 bucks, but reviews make it sound like the Emo blows everything else out of the water. Your thoughts? Leaning towards XPA 5 and Marantz 7005, but your input as an experienced end user will be greatly appreciated!!!!
> Hit them straight!!! onder:


On the one hand you have the matching (and excellent) cosmetics of the Marantz combo, but then on the other hand you have helpful specs and glowing reviews with the Emotiva. I find it more than a little annoying that Marantz does not publish transformer size or secondary capacitance of their MM7055. Now, admittedly, Im no amp expert but it seems to me that these two specifications can make an _awfully_ big difference in performance and should be specifications you consider when choosing an amp. Ive been happy with the XPA-5, it runs cool and has plenty of power for my needs.


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## bogiedr

Ty, it troubles me as well that manufacturers, (Marantz being no exception), publish what I call misleading specifications. It appears that Emotiva if anything, (like NAD), understates ratings. I saw the post on your speakers, I am sure they are not an easy drive!! If your Emo runs cool, it should have no issues with my Thiels. I will do some auditions this weekend and see what I end up with.


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## bogiedr

Ordered an XPA-5 ... took the plunge. Let's see what it does with a Marantz SR6006 as a pre pro.


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## TypeA

Congrats, potent combo thats for sure.


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## bambino

I am sure you will be happy with the XPA-5 as i just hooked mine up to my Paradigm Studio 100's (which are power hungry beasts) stepping down from XPA-1's on each speaker. I must say the sound is not the same but it still pushes them to ear bleading levels and still sound good.:T
Next test will be to hook up the UPA- 5 to the Studio's.:devil:


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## bogiedr

Well, the Emmo got here as expected, hooked it up to the Marantz SR6006 and as we say in the south ... "you ain't goun' believe this s---" The Marantz has a dead left rear pre amp. Nothing plays. Hooked the channel to the receiver and works fine. When hooking up to the amp, nothing! No it is not the Emmo on the left surround. The NAD it is replacing is doing the same thing as the Emmo and it was just repaired under warranty, I know it is working fine. The common denominator is the Marantz. I think I am cursed with bad receivers!!! BBuy said "return it under the 30 day return policy, you just got it". I told them I do not want to return it as an "I don't like it" and have the next guy stuck with a bad receiver. I told them this is a DOA and I expect an exchange. They said no problem. Let's see what happens after I exchange it. I will say the Emmo blew away the NAD ... and I am an NAD FANATIC!!! Richer, warmer, more detailed ... whatever else you can say. Ty you are correct, this will be mighty potent. The Thiels, all four of them, were singing like never before. I know the CS3's and CS2's are not the easiest speakers to drive, they seemed to love the Emmo. Again, let's see what happens when I get a working Marantz ... addle:


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## ALMFamily

Sorry to hear about the issue mate - glad to hear that the XPA-5 is to your liking though - I have one that is patiently waiting for some speakers to drive! :bigsmile:


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## bogiedr

ALMFamily, If I may be so bold ... get some Thiel CS3 and CS2 for fronts and surround. They seem to loooove the Emmo. Time coherent, very detailed ... with the right sub, you will think that you are a part of Tron Legacy. I am of course a bit biased! I love Thiels and the vintage stuff I have has not proven me wrong. So far they have been perfect for surround sound. :sn:


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## TypeA

Bummer about the Marantz but great to hear youre pleased with the Emo 


Let us know how the exchange goes...


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## bogiedr

Ty, guess what? I came home and everything was playing fine! Played a 5.1 King Crimson, played fine, played The Dark Knight, only could hear the mid and tweeter, then nothing ... seems to me I could have a lame surround Thiel. Will probably try another speaker later and see what happens. If I had any hair left I would pull it off :R


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## TypeA

Grateful you discovered the real issue before swapping the Marantz. Strange, speaker still under warranty? Will Thiel hook you up?


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## bogiedr

Well, after further searching for "upstream" problems, it comes back to the Marantz. After playing fine, the rear left faded away into complete silence. Swapped speakers, same result. It is almost as if there is a lose connection in the pre amp section of the Marantz. Anyway, BB said they'd swap it for a new one, no problem. Will try to do it tomorrow, let you know what happens.


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## bambino

Sorry for your luck (been there done that) as far as the emotivas go i couldn't be more happy then i am with the 5 that i have, outboards really do bring your speakers to life.:sn:


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## smally21

nothing but good things to say about the xpa5. compared to a half dozen others id say its 200w rating is accurate. nice looking beast as well. im looking for another as we speak, i just picked up the UMC1, running it with a 5 channel rotel but would like to pair with the xpa 5 . or xpa3. cant go wrong they are an absolute bargain.

(well, in the states they are)


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## bogiedr

Here we go again! BB replaced the Marantz. Sales rep said I was a regular and if I thought it had an issue, he had absolutely no issues swapping it out and testing the returned unit, did I say I really like my local BB? Got home, hooked everything up to the NAD, same problem, left rear dead. Called the service shop, tech said bring the NAD back, I know it is perfect! Before I did that, hooked up the Emotiva, same problem. Decided, swap the order of the interconnetcs from pre to power amp and see what happens ... voila!!! One cable seems to have a problem! Where that cable went, the problem went. I am going to order a new set of cables, replace all 5 with something better than the Audioquest and see what happens. What I have heard, (minus one channel), of the combo is fantastic!! Glad I paid attention to this forum. Could not be happier with the Oppo 93, the Emotiva rocks and seems the vintage Thiel set up loves the Emmo. Marantz still sounds like Marantz of always! To wrap it up, the 60' Panny plasma ... let's say I am very happy with the set up. Shopping for cables to finish it and then just enjoy!!:sn:


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## bogiedr

*Re: Arcam vs Emotiva; Problem solved!!!*

It turns out I had a bad interconnect! Got home, swapped out cables and my goodness!! Fixed! Inmediately I put King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" in full 5.1 lossless format, (40th anniversary release with the blessings of Robert Fripp!) and this system is crazy sick!! I am amazed at what the Marantz / Emmo combo is doing to the Thiels! They are loving the power provided by the Emmo and of course, Marantz is Marantz, nothing but straight, crystal clear, warm reproduction! Can you tell I am ecstatic with the Frankenstein I built? The Return to Forever Live at the Montraux Jazz Festival sounds amazing ... anyway, I will shut up, stop typing and go back to enjoying this crazy good system!!
Hit them straight!!!
PS Thanks for all the input!! :T


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## TypeA

Glad you got it all worked out and are happy with the system


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## bogiedr

Well, it has been about two to three weeks since the last post so I thought an update was apropriate.

First the Oppo 93 ... this creature is simply unrivaled. Blue ray, DVD, compact disk ... whatever format you throw at this thing, it gobbles it up and spits out nothing but beautiful reproduction!! 

The Marantz SR 6006 ... well it is Marantz! Nough said.

The Emotiva XPA 5 ... my goodness! this thing sounds clearer, louder, deeper, more cohesive, dynamic ... (have I said enough?) every time I turn the system on!

Reccomendation to anyone who wants to listen, if putting together a system, please do yourself a favor and try the Emotiva and the Oppo with any pre / pro you want and any speaker you want, I think you will be very happy! My Thiel's sound spectacularly awesome driven by the Emmo / Marantz pair. They are power pigs, (CS3's CS2's) and I think the Emmo is laughing at them because it does not even get warm driving these piggies! :rofl: 
Cheers everyone!


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