# Which to upgrade



## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Hello all! I've got money burning. I currently have all entry level gear. I really want to have a more defined soundstage at low volumes as well as higher. 
Current receiver- Onkyo 606
Mains- def tech bp6
Center- def tech 2002

My thoughts are for the money, about $2k + or -
going for the def tech 8060 and getting the center and surrounds with it. ( current deal)

Then as more money comes in, upgrade the receiver, and then bring an amp onboard. 

Just curious what would others do?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Room acoustics.


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Yes but when you share this room with your wife and company, you don't get away with to much. I can't have my family room look like the local audio dealers demo rooms.


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

What kind of sub are you running? The LFE will make the greatest impact on your movie experience. 

Buying better mains is a plus but you have to consider your 606 power will not get the most out of the speakers. I think you would have a greater improvement with a receiver upgrade. It will even make your present speakers sound better. Also, your present receiver doesn't have line outs to use external amps.


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Wardsweb said:


> What kind of sub are you running? The LFE will make the greatest impact on your movie experience.
> 
> Buying better mains is a plus but you have to consider your 606 power will not get the most out of the speakers. I think you would have a greater improvement with a receiver upgrade. It will even make your present speakers sound better. Also, your present receiver doesn't have line outs to use external amps.


Had a sub, but it was junk. Hence the 8060's. 
I know would not get every last drop out of different speakers with the current supply. Although I should I would hope have better tonality and linearity with the upgrade in speakers. Or at least linearity. 

For everything to be more efficient I would think an amp would be in there somewhere, which means I would need a different receiver. If I were to do this first I would think I would still be where I am. No sub and same small mains.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

IMO, add a sub and upgrade the receiver.

Although your AVR looks pretty good, I'd consider moving up to one with a better version of Audyssey than the 606's 2EQ. Bang for buck (when on sale for under $900, like it currently is at Amazon) would be the Onkyo TX-NR818.

This would leave you ~$1,100 for a sub. Unless your room is huge, any one of the following options should work well:
- dual SVS PB-1000s ($499/ea., shipped)
- HSU VTF-15H ($879 + shipping)
- Rythmik F15 ($974 + shipping)
- PSA XV15 ($799, shipped) or XS30 ($1,049, shipped)


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

eljay said:


> IMO, add a sub and upgrade the receiver.
> 
> Although your AVR looks pretty good, I'd consider moving up to one with a better version of Audyssey than the 606's 2EQ. Bang for buck (when on sale for under $900, like it currently is at Amazon) would be the Onkyo TX-NR818.
> 
> ...


Sitting are of my room is a little over 1800 cu ft. One end basically has no wall as it is opening to my kitchen. Behind my sitting is open entry hall about another 750 cu ft. 
Main room is a cathedral ceiling.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I like Eljay's advice. Although another option if you don't want to spend quite that much on the receiver would be one of last year's models. The Onkyo tx-nr709 would be a great choice and save you some coin. That would allow you to allocate more funds towards your sub. 
Semper Fidelis devildog.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

My vote is upgraded receiver with a more advanced room correction program based on your wifey comments and the fact that most of us still use the living room as just that, a living room. Better room correction will net you better sound, imo.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Pretty much the same opinion as everyone above - sub and an AVR with better audio processing software is the way I would go....


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Before I try this,how do I add my photos? 

Suppose I try this. I am going to attempt to upload some pics of my room. Ill try the cheaper route first, by trying to treat for room acoustics. 
My ultimate goal without consideration for a sub, is a better (the same) sound at both low and higher volumes.
So for now no sub, I am just concentrating, on two channel audio.

Maybe someone can give a crash course on treating room acoustics.


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

Like everyone else, I would also vote for receiver and sub upgrade. Since your concentrating on a 2 channel system, the Onkyo 818 is THE receiver to get. I can promise you, that it will yield the most result instantly due to Audyssey XT32. It is worth it's price of admission for that feature alone.

There is no crash course on room treatment. Lots and lots of reading is in order. The Master Handbook of Acoustics is a great place to start in my opinion. I'm currently reading it...for the second time. I will more than likely read it several times.:nerd:

cheers


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Back to acoustic treatments. Where do I get and best bang for buck?


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

http://gikacoustics.com/

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

http://www.realtraps.com/


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Audiodreamer said:


> Before I try this,how do I add my photos?
> 
> Suppose I try this. I am going to attempt to upload some pics of my room. Ill try the cheaper route first, by trying to treat for room acoustics.
> My ultimate goal without consideration for a sub, is a better (the same) sound at both low and higher volumes.
> So for now no sub, I am just concentrating, on two channel audio.


Here is a thread to help with posting pictures.



> Maybe someone can give a crash course on treating room acoustics.


You bet, feel free to start a thread and ask questions at the Home Theater Shack sub forum, Home Audio Acoustics.


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Okay, I am going to upgrade receiver first. In everyone's expert opinion would the onkyo809, be acceptable?
And for the money, although they wont give me that earth shaking bass, I am really intrigued by the axiom M80's. I would obviously have to add sub, center, and maybe surrounds later as more funds become available. 

The reason for the speakers is because I do believe that there are better speakers than what I have. And the Axiom's have some decent specs. 

Just trying to gain knowledge and make an informed decision.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

The 809 would be a great choice. I own one and honestly can't think of one negative comment as it's been great. As far as speakers I really don't know much about those Axiom m80's but they're very nice looking. Good luck and Semper Fidelis.


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

With the speakers I do get to audition in home. If they don't work for me it cost me $90 to ship them back. Not a big risk. My problem is with my vaulted ceiling and 22'x13' or 17' room( depending on how you look at it) is filling that space with sound.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Looking at the specs on those speakers I don't think you will have any problems. The 809 will provide plenty of power and those Axioms are very efficient and therefore won't require much power for higher volumes. I think you will be fine as long as you're happy with how the speakers sound. Also don't forget speakers often sound even better after they've been properly broken in.


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Hopefully they will be like a pair of shoes. They will be great right of the box and just get better with time. I'll probably have new receiver before speakers. I am even a bit curious if my current speakers will perform or sound better. 

I will keep informed.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Don't forget about treating your room. I know you are concerned with the WAF, but it may be possible to work around that a bit. First thing is to consider some panels, you can DIY them to save some $'s. Have your wife look at some art that she likes & tell her that it can be applied to the fabric that will cover the panels. 24" x 24" vs 24" x 48" panels to choose between, or a mix of both depending on what will look good in the room. The point being is to involve your wife, I know mine is very good at interior design & getting their input is important. Concentrate on 1st reflection points.

With Audessey XT-32 & some room treatments, I think you'll be amazed at how much better your speakers sound.


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

I understand about isolation of noise which I think is more of an issue. Being able to hear someone talk in another room or being able to hear a faint sound of music coming from somewhere. The fridge, air handler anything else you could name. A work in progress. Some things I may have to live with. 

But for treating acoustics. I understand I would not want it to be echoey or muddy bass ( which may or may not have to do with acoustics. What am I trying to achieve. 

According to Alan Lofft, ( former editor of sound and vision ) says it can be overdone. 

I have thick carpet, upholstered furniture, drapes on window. I have a brick fireplace which is between fronts. 22' of wall with 3 doors behind me. 

This post is from my phone going to post some pics from my comp


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Here is the current abode, family room, listening room, and theater room, until my soon graduating kids move out then I might have a dedicated listening room. However this more than likely is always going to be the movie room. 

Based on what is seen, what could and should be done in anyones expert opinion?


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Is that a speaker above you TV? I see what appears to be a center channel speaker below your TV, & what appears to be a surround speaker on the ceiling behind & to the right of your couch. Is there another surround speaker behind & to the left of the couch? Can't see that part of the ceiling.

As your room is not a dedicated theater, options are limited to applicable space. That far wall would be a good place for some acoustic panels, which I eluded to earlier coud be made artistic. You could also squeeze a panel onto that rear wall where the small picture is. Can we get a picture from the other end of the room showing us this side?


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Indeed those are speakers. I just relocated tv over fireplace. Bookshelf speakers are polks. I used them before for my surrounds and back. Currently not using. Yes that is speaker below tv. 

Going to take additional pics and post soon


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Should I maybe get material like what my drapes are made of and put on all of the doors behind are seating.
Some pictures were taken with camera resting on top of speaker.


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## Audiodreamer (Jan 11, 2009)

Just want to update. Got the Onkyo 809 last night. I do believe the sound from the small definitive BP6 sounds better. The audessey shows them to be full band. Probably because no sub. I also don't believe that they are that efficient in the low end. The highs,mid- mid-low sound ok. Still haven't made it to room treatments yet. 

I could probably live with them, with a decent sub. 

A question for those in the know. 
Is it possible for for a speaker with the same tweeter, and a smaller woofer produce a better sound than another with a bigger woofer, all from same manufacture?

I'm sure there are other variables, but this is why I am asking.


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