# Are there any Pioneer receiver owners here?



## hyghwayman

I am a proud owner (2 yrs.) of the VSX-816k, it's the first receiver I've owned and love it. I'm starting to get the upgrade itch:help: and would like to here from other Pio owners. I have a few questions if you don't mind and feel free to add more info.

1. What model do you have?

2. What are your likes/dis-likes of your receiver?

3. How many Pio receivers have you owned and have you ever owned different brands before going to Pioneer?

Thanks to all that reply,
hyghwayman

P.S. Here is a link to a review I did on the VSX-816k over at Epinions.com


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## tcarcio

Hi Don, I have the Elite VSX-81TXV and I love it. I am not an expert by any stretch but when I decided to move into something more up to date I looked at alot of different recievers in my price range of 6 to 8 hundred. I have never owned a Pioneer reciever before but I have owned many products made by them such as car audio and home cd players and was never dissapointed. I auditioned Sony,Onkyo,and a few more in that price range and I just liked the sound I got from the Pioneer and also I thought build quality was excellent. The connectivity is very good and this model had everything I was looking for. I use it in my HTR and have it set up as a 7.1 system with a set of Cambridge Soundworks Towers, 4 dipole,bipole,monopole surrounds also by CS and a VR-12 Boston acoustics center. I love that you can store up to 6 different audio settings so I have choices when I am changing from music to movies. I have never had to push the reciever because it has plenty of head room and the auto cal works well, although I do my share of tweeking. I read alot of reviews on the Elite recievers and they do review well and they look great too. I have owned a few different components such as Sherwood Newcastle and a few others and they were all very good but for the money I think the Elite's are a good choice for anyone that can't spend thousands of dollars on high end gear. The only thing I regret is that it is only HDMI version 1.2 so I have to use my preouts to get lossless audio from my HD DVD player instead of it just being transmitted through the HDMI cable but that will come with my next reciever and I really don't see that happening too soon as I am very happy with my set up for now. I wouldn't hesitate to recomend Pioneer to anyone.:yay:


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## eugovector

I own a VSX-850s. Got it for a really decent price, so I have no complaints. Sounds great, plenty of headroom. I'll be upgrading in the future only for next-gen audio support, and better AV switching.


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## hyghwayman

Thanks tcarcio and eugovector for replying, I find it funny only two members here have Pio receivers :dunno:.


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## OvalNut

I use a Pioneer VSX-1015. Fantastic reciever though without HDMI capability. The surround processing is superb and the sound is neutral, clean and muscular.

I had a Denon AVR-1804 before this, and the Pioneer is much, much better. The Denon sounded thin in comparison.


Tim
:drive:


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## tonyvdb

Pioneer is one of those companies that simply doesn't advertise there receivers well. When most people here the name Pioneer they think car audio and bypass them when looking for a receiver or other home audio/video component.
I myself think they make several great Displays and Receivers.


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## hyghwayman

tonyvdb said:


> Pioneer is one of those companies that simply doesn't advertise there receivers well. When most people here the name Pioneer they think car audio and bypass them when looking for a receiver or other home audio/video component.
> I myself think they make several great Displays and Receivers.


When I went looking for my 1st receiver I had never heard of Denon or Onkyo but like you said Pioneer was a name I was aware of. Features and price came into play as well as reviews. I did listen to a few other receivers before buying, my wife even had through her work a large discount on another brand that featured HDMI capability, but it was only 1.1v and didn't offer as many connectivity options as other receivers in the same price range before and/or after the discount. So in the end I went with my gut and bought the Pioneer VSX-816k receiver, after about 2yrs I'm still very pleased with the power and sound I'm getting from it:clap:. I just hope I can say the same thing after I replace my whimpy 40w HTiB speakers with the SBS-01 package from SVSound.

hyghwayman


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## tcarcio

Do any of you use the MCACC auto cal that these recievers have and if so has anyone compared the way it works compared to a more precise calibration. I know some of you guy's here do your own so I was wondering how it matches up?


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## OvalNut

I do use the MCACC, and the results are great. On the VSX-1015 at least, MCACC does not do the subwoofer frequencies, so it works well to not have any concflicts with me using the FBQ2496 on the subwoofer channel.


Tim
:drive:


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## hyghwayman

I too used the MCACC to set up the speakers and it worked ok for me, I did have to fine tune the speaker distance though. I don't have an SPL meter yet but will be getting one with my SBS-01 speakers.

hyghwayman


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## thajones

I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV, why use the preouts? I get my audio from the HDMI outputs from my HDDVD and Bluray players. I too am impressed overall with the quality, I ended up upgrading my speakers to some Paradigms v.5 after getting this receiver, realizing I had been missing more than I thought. Granted, none of my last receivers were chopped liver (Denon and Harman/Kardon) but other than the setup screen, I enjoy this receiver. For $525, I couldn't find a better deal. Didn't like the overall look of the Onkyo.


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## tcarcio

thajones said:


> I have the Pioneer Elite VSX-81TXV, why use the preouts? I get my audio from the HDMI outputs from my HDDVD and Bluray players. I too am impressed overall with the quality, I ended up upgrading my speakers to some Paradigms v.5 after getting this receiver, realizing I had been missing more than I thought. Granted, none of my last receivers were chopped liver (Denon and Harman/Kardon) but other than the setup screen, I enjoy this receiver. For $525, I couldn't find a better deal. Didn't like the overall look of the Onkyo.


I also have this reciever and I have a question for you. When you are choosing lossless audio such as True HD on HD dvd how do you have your HD player and Pioneer set up. I set my HDdvd player to output PCM through HDMI and then have my Pioneer set to Direct mode. Is that correct or am I wrong?


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## thajones

tcarcio said:


> I also have this reciever and I have a question for you. When you are choosing lossless audio such as True HD on HD dvd how do you have your HD player and Pioneer set up. I set my HDdvd player to output PCM through HDMI and then have my Pioneer set to Direct mode. Is that correct or am I wrong?


Both my bluray and HDDVD are set to PCM. The Pioneer...if you mean direct, with no processing, I do have 7.1 so it's always set to Dolby IIx - unless the movie was 6.1 or 7.1, then it just says "PCM" instead of "PCM + IIx" All 7 speakers light up on Xmen III. What's weird is - my Toshiba A2 will show "96khz + IIx" but the bluray will not (Samsung BD-P1400). I hate that bluray won, my A2 behaves SO much better than my Sammy. 

I will look to double-check if i have a specific setting of "Direct" on it. I do have the oversampling on, phase correction off...hmm, now I gotta really look at my settings


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## Guest

Hi,

I've just joined the forum and was browsing through today's new posts.

I have a Pioneer VSX-LX70 AV Receiver. (I think our model numbers are a little different to yours here in the U.K.)

I have had it about a month now and it has replaced my long standing Yamaha DSP-AX1. 

So far I am very pleased with it. The auto setup has helped the system get the most out of my reasonably small room. The overall sound is brighter than the AX1. It sounds like I have gone out and bought new speakers.

The Sub integration seem to work better for me as well with both movies and two channel stereo working well. The AX1 did not work well with the sub for music at all and I often turned the sub off altogether. Not so with the Pioneer.

It works well with my PS3 as a Blu-ray player. 

I did do a quick check of the auto level setting with my RS SPL meter and they were pretty much spot on maybe a 0.5db tweek to a couple of channels would bring it a fraction closer. The speaker distances were perfect.

I like the way the ipod integrates with the unit with a good OSD. The cable even comes in the box which I wasn't expecting.

I'm now going through all my old movies and music collections like they were brand new. It's great. :yay:

Thanks

Mark


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## tcarcio

thajones said:


> Both my bluray and HDDVD are set to PCM. The Pioneer...if you mean direct, with no processing, I do have 7.1 so it's always set to Dolby IIx - unless the movie was 6.1 or 7.1, then it just says "PCM" instead of "PCM + IIx" All 7 speakers light up on Xmen III. What's weird is - my Toshiba A2 will show "96khz + IIx" but the bluray will not (Samsung BD-P1400). I hate that bluray won, my A2 behaves SO much better than my Sammy.
> 
> I will look to double-check if i have a specific setting of "Direct" on it. I do have the oversampling on, phase correction off...hmm, now I gotta really look at my settings


I have direct and pure direct choices so I usually use direct because I thought if you use any kind of processing at the reciever it messes with the true hd from the HD dvd player but I could be wrong. On some discs my XA2 also shows 96khs + IIx but I thought that was for dts but again I am not positive. I am not complaining about the sound because it is fantastic I was just curious as to how you set your's up.:wave:


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## rudra

Mate,

I live down under(Australia). I have the VSX-2016(equivalent to a VSX-81TXV). Before this I owned a VSX-510. Have been happy :yay: with both the purchase. They are good value for money.


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## hyghwayman

Now that this thread is getting somewhere, I would like to extend my thanks to all who have replied:clap:. Maybe this could become an official Pioneer receiver owners thread some day:dunno:. Never the less, this thread has confirmed my feelings towards my receiver, while not the best in the Pioneer line up it has served me very well. When I bought mine in 2006 I knew I was going to up grade it in another few years when the HDMI 1.3v became the norm:T.

hyghwayman
P.S. Keep the question and answers coming everyone.


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## xcapri79

I think that Pioneer Electronics makes good quality and affordable receivers. I have a VSX-1014TX and have powered Polk LSi speakers with it. The MCACC feature is nice to optimize the sound to the main listener - me. 

I also have a smaller and relatively inexpensive Pioneer VSX-515K receiver which works well with some Polk RTi speakers in my master bedroom for home theater and music.


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## Guest

Hello, this is my first post.

I have model VSX-1017TXV-K. It is replacing a small Onkyo 5.1 AV receiver we have had for a few years. We picked it up as a close out for $131 and we are very happy with it. the sound quality and channel separation seem a lot more defined than the Onkyo did. 

I have a Pioneer Dolby pro logic receiver thats 8 years old and a cd player that are still going strong in my garage.


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## Guest

I am new here also, I have a Pioneer VSX-72 TXV receiver which I have been very happy with, I had a Pioneer 54 before it. Now I am thinking of getting a newer reciever with the Upconversion of video to 1080, but real hard to decide which one and if I should stay with Pioneer, such as the VSX 92 or VSX 94 models, or move to another brand. I want to stay under the $900 range and with some careful shopping on the net, it can be done. I like some of the specs on other units, but find the drop in power on the Pioneers when using all 7 channels is annoying. The Onyko seems to stand up the best on high power, I guess that is why the 50 pound weight of the TX-SR805 model receiver, big power supplys. I never cared too much for Onyko products in the past and am leary of going that route. The Yamaha 1800 seems to be all around decent, but seems lacking in some respects, the Denons seem to have weak video processing. Very hard decision to make and I guess all of us have gone through it. I could just get a newer DVDO (mine only converts up to 480P) and leave everything else alone, but I sure would like to get rid of some wires and less equipment. But it seems, the only 2 things I am upconverting is the VCR tapes and my 4DTV Sat signal (which is fairly important as I watch it quite often), as I have the Samsung OTA HDTV tuner, and the Panasonic DVR with 1080 upconversion. I'm not interested in a HD-DVD Blu-ray player yet. :coocoo:


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## tcarcio

JohninCt said:


> I like some of the specs on other units, but find the drop in power on the Pioneers when using all 7 channels is annoying.
> 
> I don't have a drop in power with my VSX-81TXV. Now I haven't put a meter on it but I don't notice any difference when I calibrate with my SPL meter.


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## Guest

I don't have a drop in power with my VSX-81TXV. Now I haven't put a meter on it but I don't notice any difference when I calibrate with my SPL meter.[/QUOTE]

I am just going by what I have read in some of the home theater publications. The reviews have stated the VSX 94 txh power drops to less than 100 watts at 0.1 % when all 7 channels are driven, seems to be less than 80 watts. Now just to be fair, all of them drop to some extent. The Onyko drops to about 120 watts per channel, the least that I have read. The Yamaha fell to 55 watts per ch..


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## tcarcio

I didn't know that. I would think that the spl meter would show a difference when switching from 5.1 to 7.1. Would be interesting to see what Pioneer say's about this.:foottap: By the way welcome to the forum.........


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## Guest

tcarcio said:


> I didn't know that. I would think that the spl meter would show a difference when switching from 5.1 to 7.1. Would be interesting to see what Pioneer say's about this.:foottap: By the way welcome to the forum.........


Thanks for the welcome. I would think the meter would show a difference also, but maybe the loss is mainly on the bottom end which needs the most power to drive speakers, and also, maybe the meter takes more of its level measurements from the midrange. It would take a power level meter right at the speaker outputs to get a real reading. I'm sure Pioneer knows this, but it just shows how none of them makers are giving true rating tables when they give out the specs. Much like autos, too many variables to give one true set of horsepower ratings. No one wants to stick to one standard which would tell the truth for all. The Onyko 805 seems like a power house and has many good features, but the Pioneer has the same features with a little less power, but better reliability and a few more inputs, so it comes down to how much power do I really need. The Denon 2808 is out because I read too much negative on the video upconverging and only 110 watts, which also drop down on 7 channels. I also like the various THX settings when offered, and Denon has none. So far, I think if I do an upgrade, it will be to a Pioneer VSX 94, then I will just ebay my VSX 72 and my DVDO ultra. I will at least get part of it back.


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## Guest

I recently bought the VSX-817-S (We tend to get a bit behind the times here in Oz, moreso when on a budget ) and so far haven't been able to significantly fault it. Video up and down conversion would have been a nice bonus, but all my peripherals bar the VCR have S-Video anyway, and S-Video to Composite converters are easy and cheap to get.

I haven't had it up to 0dB, nor am I sure I'll ever need or want too! And the ADC 5 speaker set I recently aquired on indefinate loan loves it  That said, I can't wait to be able to take advantage of the bi-amping feature!


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## Guest

Well I did some more research and came up with the VSX-92txh would do me just fine, so i just bought one. There is only a +10 watt per channel difference in the 94 as compared to the 92 and I currently have 130 per channel now (supposedly) and it has plenty of volume for me. Not much difference in the rest of the specs from the 94 and it has 3 HDMI upconversion inputs, so I should be fine with it. Comes with a 5 year warranty also. I have been very happy with my last 3 Pioneer receivers so I decided to stay with them.


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## tcarcio

Sounds like a great choice. I am sure you will be happy with it. Let us know if you notice a difference with the 10w uptick, I would think it wouldn't really matter but I am just interested to know.


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## nathangilley

Hello!

I own an Elite VSX-47TX mated with Klipsch reference series speakers. I am VERY pleased with the sonic quality (MOSFET, burr brown DAC’s, massive capacitors and transformer, 63 pounds total mass, and made in Japan-not Malaysia, China, Indonesia, etc.). However, it runs HOT! I had to implement a cooling fan as it runs hotter than my Yamaha MX-1000 Class A amplifier! The 47 is the closest to tube sound I have heard from any mass market solid state receiver (reminiscent of the Yamaha and Sony VFET amplifiers from circa 1979), but with the inherent control that solid state offers. The MCACC deployed is very primitive and does not offer subwoofer correction, but it does equalization of the 7 main channels to within 3 decibels when compared to a non-equalized sample using a RS analog meter and REW. The exception is in the high frequency range; it brightens the 10 kHz and above range considerably. I owned an 
Elite VSX-91TXH for almost a month, but returned it after I saw the 47 on e-bay for a fraction of the cost. There is no contest in sound quality between the two, at least not while utilizing the internal amplifiers. However, the MCACC of the 91 is far more advanced and drastically improves the spatial envelopment in DTS/DD use. The overall presentation of the 47 is more convincing, though. The 47 blows the doors off of the 91 in music, no matter what the source. I didn’t think to audition the pre-amp of the 91 using the Yamaha MX-1000 amplifier, so I can only comment on the overall presentation of the receiver. I have also owned Yamaha, Onkyo , Sherwood, and KLH receivers. The closest competition in terms of musicality to the Pioneer Elites are the upper-level Yamahas (different personality, but nearly equally satisfying), although the Yamaha was rather weak in the surround sound-field. The Onkyo I owned was bulletproof and very well rounded, with a long list of features to boot. I was less than impressed with the Newcastle, and would never buy a Sherwood again. The KLH was my very first receiver, and it sounded great for the money, but overheated and died. 

I have been thinking of buying an HDMI receiver to use strictly as a pre/pro (I refuse to lose MOSFET, and no one makes them at an affordable price anymore), but this would require a stellar DAC set, and that really limits my options (I’m thinking VSX-72TXV/74TXVi, Onkyo TX-SR805, Yamaha RX-V1700/2700, Denon 3806 et al). Furthermore, it’s hard to justify spending $375-$550 on something I would only use for maybe 45 Blu-Ray/HD-DVD soundtracks. However, if anyone knows of a sweet deal on one of these, or can recommend another receiver with excellent DAC’s, please let me know.


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## Guest

Before the VSX72, I had a VSX 53 which was a little less power per channel. I think it was 100 watts per channel, I did notice a bit of a difference when the VSX 72 came in with the 130 watt per channel rating, Seemed the dynamic range shows up more when a loud passage came up, like the beginning of some of the DVDs that have that neat promo entry where it starts low and builds, but the VSX 92 is the same 130 per watt rating in power as the VSX 72 which I will be selling on Ebay soon, so I expect to see no difference in power. It comes in Monday, but I sure will mention if I should see a power drop even with the same ratings. 
As for playing music, I use a totally different system and only use the Pioneer for my theater system. I like Crown amps for my music system.


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## Guest

Well I've had this VSX92TXH for a few days now and have been using it occasionally. I found one problem with the HDMI inputs in relation to upconversion, I have a 4DTV sat receiver and it doesn't upconvert the signal from that, in fact it diminishes it and leaves a noticable screen door effect when viewed on my 9' screen. It works better if I just run a Svideo cable from the 4DTV (that is the highest output signal they have on them) to the G70 projector and to the Svideo input. So it means I still need a scaler or DVDO doubler type item to upscale the signal from the sat receiver. I was hoping to get away from that and thin out my equipment. It works fine with my Samsung HDTV H260F OTA receiver and with my Panasonic EZ475 DVR/VHS unit, but also, it doesn't upconvert the VHS tape signal. I noticed something else also, when buying one of these receivers online or from Ebay, be careful on the warranty info, most Ebay sellers are not authorized to give you a Pioneer factory warranty (even if the box has never been opened), and therefore the factory warranty is invalid so it says on the Pioneer paperwork. You need to get a Squaretrade or Repairtech warranty when you buy almost anything electronic. There may be a catch to it also, I noticed mine came with a 3 year warranty and it seems the seller made it sound like it was additional to the original warranty, and it would kick in after the factory warranty goes out in 2 years. But on reading the factory warranty paper, it is invalid so when you fill in the form Repairtech uses to register online, it asks when the original warranty ends in months, if you were to put in 24 months, if the receiver goes out before then, you would have to wait until their warranty kicks in to get it repaired by them, so I put 0 months for original warranty so theirs kicks in right away. I am satisfied with 3 years.


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## gobrigavitch

I was cruising through the receiver forum and found this old thread. I thought I should add my opinion. I have had a few home theater receivers. I currently have a Pioneer VSX-74txvi. I briefly had a loaner VSX-54tx. Years ago I owned an older elite which retailed for 2500K CAD, but I can't recall the name. It had the old AC3 hookup for laser discs. It was a really heavy beast that I got on close out for a really good price. I only replaced it because of features. I don't think I've had as well built of a receiver since. I also owned an Onkyo 575 for 2 years with no complaings. 

I really like my current receiver, but will likely need to upgrade so that I can get 1080p switching. I'm currently using a 720p PJ, but will upgrading soon.


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## mosconiac

Could you Pioneer guys take a look at my thread please?!?!? TIA for any opinions.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...8-do-pioneer-vsx-1014tx-ep2500-play-nice.html


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## Todd Anderson

I own the Pio VSX-1016. I've owned it for 2 years. For my purposes I think it's a fantastic receiver... it received good reviews on cnet. I picked it up for a steal after price matching with J&R in NYC.... I don't think any of the other major brands offer it's level of features for the price.

My biggest complaint are the limited crossover controls on main menu - the presets may not be exactly what you are looking for. I'm guessing the Elite series corrects this problem. 

That being said, I'm more than happy with my purchase - sad to Pioneer stepping out of the display business. I've really enjoyed my pdp-5070.:sad2:


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## hyghwayman

Thank you all for replying to my post. I'm still using my 1st Pio. but hope to upgrade as soon as we close on our new home.


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## Todd Anderson

I'm hoping my upgrade is a long way off -- can't imagine needing more at this point. Great, clean sound.


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## tcarcio

mosconiac said:


> Could you Pioneer guys take a look at my thread please?!?!? TIA for any opinions.
> 
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...8-do-pioneer-vsx-1014tx-ep2500-play-nice.html


Did you ever get your system set up correctly with the Art cleanbox?


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## wynshadwm

yes VSX-72TXV GREAT UNIT ENDLESS TWEAKS 
same as the (VSX-74TX-Vi) with one exception no PC connection/usb interface i love this unit the 72TXV follow me home one day from BB for $220 open box" as i was looking to move up/change to digital/hdmi and it been on elite on all. i have some acurus which i still own

the acurus ACT-3 PRE/PRO,THE A-150 , 100X3 THEY GOOD OLD AMERICAN STANDARDS.
but for the Home Theatre the 72-txv is all i need' as i only use 5.1 at this time i do bi-amping on my front speakers' and switch the receiver to 4 ohms that's real sweet.:jiggy: that been said every time i read the manual i fond something that i didn't know this beast could do. the next upgrade pioneer will be the first brand on my mind


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## the_diyr

Got the VSX-516 ( Black one ) I didnt buy it with the speaker package I bought it seperate I have had it for about 2 or 3 years now and it is still going strong.. I havent really turned it up much and right now it is hooked to 2 front ( Fisher st-828 ) two side JBL, two rear Pioneer Surround speakers, 1 10 inch yamaha powered sub and Soon to be my home built center channel... But I really like pioneer ( It's whats in my truck as well DEH-2900mp )


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## jaytay

My VSX-23TXH is ordered and on the road to be delivered (hopefully) tomorrow. I'm looking forward to getting my HT set up and running. I'm matching it with some Energy Take Classic satellite speakers, and an SVS PB10-NSD sub (with BFD to EQ it). The pieces are starting to roll in, and will hopefully have it all put together before the in-laws show up for Thanksgiving. Rock on!


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## Lordoftherings

I still have my Pioneer VSX-9300s and still love it for the warm sound (Mosfet transistors). :bigsmile:
And lot of power too (150 watts into 8 ohms at 0.02% THD, two channels driven; and about 250 watts into 4 ohm loads: from the lab tests).
Pioneer is a great company, and their Elite line is superb. And now, with their ICE power (class D amps), good for the environment, and more...


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## spartanstew

I had a VSX-56txi for about 5 years, but finally gave in to the demand for HDMI about 6 months ago and replaced it with a VSX-03TXH.

I really like the Pio Receivers, but for some reason they won't apply PLIIx to a dts track. Has anyone else noticed this?


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## Lordoftherings

Ya, but it will apply DTS-Neo6, which is the equivalent.

* Same with any other receivers.

** PLIIx is a Dolby Digital proprietary audio mode. DTS has it's own with DTS-Neo6, for DTS without the back surrounds encoded soundtracks. Right?


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## spartanstew

Lordoftherings said:


> Ya, but it will apply DTS-Neo6, which is the equivalent.
> 
> * Same with any other receivers.
> 
> ** PLIIx is a Dolby Digital proprietary audio mode. DTS has it's own with DTS-Neo6, for DTS without the back surrounds encoded soundtracks. Right?



That's what I thought too for many years, but a few months ago several people told me that you can use PLIIx on DTS tracks (converting 5.1 to 7.1) with most receivers, but not Pioneers. That the fact that one's Dolby and one's DTS doesn't have anything to do with it. Here's an example discussion:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=979272


PS. Neo:6 isn't really the equivalent since IIx converts to 7.1 and Neo:6 only converts to 6.1


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## Lordoftherings

My Denon AVR-3805 shows DTS + Neo6, when I play a DTS soundtrack encoded in 5 channels, and that I apply Neo6 on top of it, to derive a 7.1-channel sound.

But if the soundtrack is Dolby Digital, then it shows DD + PLIIx.

Your Pioneer is doing the same. That's just the way it is.

* Oh, I forgot, it also shows if it's Cinema or Music.


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## spartanstew

Have you tried getting PLIIx to work on a dts track.

Other Denon owners get this displayed: DTS + PLIIX CINEMA

I don't think that's just the way it is. PLIIx can work with DD or DTS, but not all receivers work that way.

Oh, and you can't drive 7.1 sound with Neo:6. All 7 speakers will work, but the sound coming out of the two rears will be identical as opposed to true 7.1 where they're independent of each other.

That's the reason I wish my Pio would apply PLIIx to dts tracks, but it won't. Other receivers will.


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## bikermunda

i am planning to buy Pioneer VSX-819H-K from amazon but i was wondering to check with the folks here to get their input as well 

sorry i cant post links as of now since i have to get to 5 posts before i can post links


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## spartanstew

bikermunda said:


> i am planning to buy Pioneer VSX-819H-K from amazon but i was wondering to check with the folks here to get their input as well
> 
> sorry i cant post links as of now since i have to get to 5 posts before i can post links


Unless you're on a very strict budget, I'd go for the 919 for another $100.

Things 919 has that the 819 doesn't:

An extra 10 watts per channel
7 channels vs 5
Advanced MCACC
Standing wave control
X-Curve compensation
More calibration memory modes
SD video adjustment
Digital video converter to HDMI
Aspect Ratio adjust
More surround modes
Headphone surround
Virtual sound in rear
Dialogue Enhancement
Digital Noise Reduction
Album Art capability w/iphone
Color on-screen display
Renamable functions
Better remote.

You might be able to get the 919 from Will2 at videogon.com for less than $300. I have no affiliation with him (other than having purchased from him before), but he's an authorized Pioneer dealer with a store in Wisconsin.


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## tcarcio

spartanstew said:


> Have you tried getting PLIIx to work on a dts track.
> 
> Other Denon owners get this displayed: DTS + PLIIX CINEMA
> 
> I don't think that's just the way it is. PLIIx can work with DD or DTS, but not all receivers work that way.
> 
> Oh, and you can't drive 7.1 sound with Neo:6. All 7 speakers will work, but the sound coming out of the two rears will be identical as opposed to true 7.1 where they're independent of each other.
> 
> That's the reason I wish my Pio would apply PLIIx to dts tracks, but it won't. Other receivers will.


Why would you want to drive a 7.1 encoded disc with neo6 anyway. If it is encoded in 7.1 you would just play it in 7.1 right off the disc. Am I misunderstanding you?


----------



## spartanstew

tcarcio said:


> Why would you want to drive a 7.1 encoded disc with neo6 anyway. If it is encoded in 7.1 you would just play it in 7.1 right off the disc. Am I misunderstanding you?


I'm referring to 5.1 encoded tracks. Standard DD and DTS, not lossless.


----------



## tcarcio

spartanstew said:


> I'm referring to 5.1 encoded tracks. Standard DD and DTS, not lossless.


Ya, I should have realized that. So some recievers allow you to apply neo6 or plII to 5.1 dts tracks? I know my Elite doesn't.


----------



## spartanstew

tcarcio said:


> Ya, I should have realized that. So some recievers allow you to apply neo6 or plII to 5.1 dts tracks? I know my Elite doesn't.


You should be able to apply neo6 to your dts tracks, but not PLIIx. But apparently, other receivers do.


----------



## bikermunda

spartanstew said:


> Unless you're on a very strict budget, I'd go for the 919 for another $100.
> 
> Things 919 has that the 819 doesn't:
> 
> An extra 10 watts per channel
> 7 channels vs 5
> Advanced MCACC
> Standing wave control
> X-Curve compensation
> More calibration memory modes
> SD video adjustment
> Digital video converter to HDMI
> Aspect Ratio adjust
> More surround modes
> Headphone surround
> Virtual sound in rear
> Dialogue Enhancement
> Digital Noise Reduction
> Album Art capability w/iphone
> Color on-screen display
> Renamable functions
> Better remote.
> 
> You might be able to get the 919 from Will2 at videogon.com for less than $300. I have no affiliation with him (other than having purchased from him before), but he's an authorized Pioneer dealer with a store in Wisconsin.


Thanks for your advice, how can i look for Will2 on that website you mentioned ?


----------



## spartanstew

PM sent.


----------



## Lordoftherings

spartanstew said:


> Have you tried getting PLIIx to work on a dts track.
> 
> Other Denon owners get this displayed: DTS + PLIIX CINEMA
> 
> I don't think that's just the way it is. PLIIx can work with DD or DTS, but not all receivers work that way.
> 
> Oh, and you can't drive 7.1 sound with Neo:6. All 7 speakers will work, but the sound coming out of the two rears will be identical as opposed to true 7.1 where they're independent of each other.
> 
> That's the reason I wish my Pio would apply PLIIx to dts tracks, but it won't. Other receivers will.


Hi Stew,

I'll give it another shot late tonight. And I will be back to confirm.

* I got you, PLIIx is deriving two different signals in the back surrounds (from the two different signals in the side surrounds), and DTS-Neo6 is deriving only one (the same signal in the two back surrounds) from the two side surrounds. Here we are still talking about a 5.1-channel encoded soundtrack, in both cases.

** And if you're right about Pioneer acting differently than other receivers in that situation,
I don't see the big deal in that. This is the first time I heard of that.
Also, to be frank with you, I don't play DVDs anymore for over two years now, only Blu-rays;
so for me, the point is moot.

*** But, I do understand that your situation might be different. In that case, as I said, I don't see a big deal in that. Every manufacturer has it's own way to implement and tweek their audio.
Also, it could be only a mistake showing in the display, from Pioneer engineers.
You know, it's not the first time; and many receivers from various companies have their perks (flaws).

**** Is that a good reason enough for you to swith brands?

I'll be back & Cheers,
Bob


----------



## Lordoftherings

All right Stew, I just check "Chicago" on DVD with both DD 5.1 & DTS 5.1 soundtracks.

Here's what my Denon receiver says on its front display:

1. With DD 5.1 soundtrack -> If I add PLIIx on top, it says: Dolby D +PLIIx C ('C' for Cinema).

2. With DTS 5.1 soundtrack -> If I add NEO:6 (ES Matrix) on top, it says: DTS + NEO:6

3. With DTS 5.1 soundtrack -> If I add Back Surround(s) (Non Matrix) on top, it only says: DTS
* (but my two back surrounds are active now, in the 'Non Matrix' audio mode.

4. Now, here's the thing you already knew, and that I can definitively confirm:
-> With DTS 5.1 soundtrack, if I add PLIIx on top, it says: DTS + PLIIx C (again 'C' for Cinema). 

So here you go. 

))) Now, my big question: Is it all the Pioneer A/V Receivers who you cannot apply PLIIx on top of a DTS 5.1-channel soundtrack? And I mean from older models to most recent models?
If yes, is this a flaw, or Pioneer own way to do things at their own discretion?
* Because with Dolby Digital & DTS, there are some Standards that have to apply to all manufacturers.

** But like I said before, no one is impervious to anomalies in their designs; if this is one of them.
There is no such thing as the perfect Receiver, or Amp, or Pre/Pro, etc.

Hope this make you sleep better.

Cheers,
Bob


----------



## spartanstew

Lordoftherings said:


> Also, to be frank with you, I don't play DVDs anymore for over two years now, only Blu-rays;
> so for me, the point is moot.


However, PLIIx can still be used with lossless 5.1 audio, correct? So, blu rays with 5.1 DTS-HD MA will play only via 5 speakers if you have a 7 channel set-up (with Pio). Or you could apply Neo:6 to it with Pioneers and get 6.1. You can't, however apply 7.1 if dts is the only track. I hate not being able to use all 7 of the speakers in my HT, because I can really tell the difference.



Lordoftherings said:


> **** Is that a good reason enough for you to swith brands?


No.



Lordoftherings said:


> ))) Now, my big question: Is it all the Pioneer A/V Receivers who you cannot apply PLIIx on top of a DTS 5.1-channel soundtrack? And I mean from older models to most recent models?
> If yes, is this a flaw, or Pioneer own way to do things at their own discretion?


As far as I know, it's with all Pioneers, but I've never heard a reason for it. Just seems weird that they would do it.

Still a great receiver, but I've learned to always use the DD track if both are available and "suffer" through if it's only dts.


----------



## Lordoftherings

Wow! You really dig PLIIx, do you now?

On top of Lossless (not Lossy though) 5.1 audio soundtracks? 

* You know Stew, if I will be in your skin, I'll get another A/V Receiver (don't matter the brand, except Pioneer) that allow me to do just exactly what I really want it to do, and stop suffering by missing on those two back surrounds.
Because it is painful in your situation right now, and you need to fix things for yourself, cause it don't seem that Pioneer will.

Just a simple friendly deduction from what you're telling me.

Hey Stew, did you check at other audio forums about this matter?
Are there a lot of people like you aware of this issue?

Regards,
Bob


----------



## tcarcio

Well for me it really doesn't matter because I rarely use neo or PLII for movies. All that does is matrix the sound anyway and to me is useless. Now for music it's fine if you just want to help fill the room but I don't even use it for that. Also that is not even close to being a good enough reason to change recievers, IMO.


----------



## spartanstew

Lordoftherings said:


> Wow! You really dig PLIIx, do you now?
> 
> On top of Lossless (not Lossy though) 5.1 audio soundtracks?
> 
> * You know Stew, if I will be in your skin, I'll get another A/V Receiver (don't matter the brand, except Pioneer) that allow me to do just exactly what I really want it to do, and stop suffering by missing on those two back surrounds.
> Because it is painful in your situation right now, and you need to fix things for yourself, cause it don't seem that Pioneer will.
> 
> Just a simple friendly deduction from what you're telling me.
> 
> Hey Stew, did you check at other audio forums about this matter?
> Are there a lot of people like you aware of this issue?
> 
> Regards,
> Bob


Yes, I love PLIIx. The difference between 5.1 and 7.1 is very noticeable to me, even with lossless audio (DD True HD + PLIIx is magnificent), because most Blu Rays are still 5.1. However, I've been using pioneer receivers exclusively for almost 10 years, so it's not a deal breaker, just a weird issue.

And yes, I'm a member of 4 or 5 forums and that's how I became aware of it. Up until recently, I thought it was an issue with all receivers (DD vs DTS), like you alluded to earlier. Now that I know the truth, it's a minor quibble, but not enough to cause me to switch.


----------



## Lordoftherings

You know, if I will enumerate all the little flaws (and bigger ones too) in all my receivers over the years, 
it would be quite a list.

And I mean with all of them, from all manufacturers (Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, Pioneer, Rotel, NAD, Sherwood, Harman Kardon, Arcam, etc...).

* Life is a compromise, you choose your poison with the most effective way to do it's 'trick'. Right? Or is it 'magic'?


----------



## Oklahoma Wolf

hyghwayman said:


> 1. What model do you have? 2. What are your likes/dis-likes of your receiver? 3. How many Pio receivers have you owned and have you ever owned different brands before going to Pioneer?


Here are my comments:

Current receiver: VSX-919AH

Likes:

Very good sound
Lots of features for the money
7.1 channel input
Display can be dimmed all the way to off with only volume showing
Advanced MCACC with 9 band EQ'ing
Lots of crossover point choices on the LFE

Dislikes:

Not quite enough power for my 7.1 DIY speakers, leading to constant running of:
That fan, that fan, that irritating FAN!!!
No EQ on the LFE out
No lighted buttons on remote
No S-Video inputs, but that's a really minor one
LFE out cannot drive a pro amp well without external boosting

Previous receiver was an ancient Kenwood Pro-Logic. It blows that old beast away, as well it should. Next will be a Denon if I go with another receiver... I may go for Emotiva separates instead. I really can't complain too hard about the 919 - it's a very good unit for the money. I just need more continuous power for my speakers than it can give me. MCACC always wants to set my speakers to "large", and it just doesn't have the guts to drive them like that at decent volumes without spinning that fan all the time. And sorry to say it, but that fan is too annoying in room to let it run during quiet passages.

That said, my speakers only get down to 40Hz anyway with any kind of volume, so I have them at small and crossed over at 80Hz. That keeps the fan from running too often as well.


----------



## shooter

I bought a Pioneer SC-27 Elite about 4 months ago now and I could not be more pleased. I looked at a lot of different brands Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo, Marantz, but the Pioneer won out. I have owned Denon and Onkyo in the past,(my last one was a onkyo.) I have owned 4 Onkyo's in the past and I always seemed to have a heat problem with all of them. The last one I had after just under 2 years would turn off after about an hour of use. Once it had time to cool down it would work fine again until it heated up again. The others all ran hot, but not as hot as this one did.
I had no problems with the Denon, I was just never really happy with the sound I got from it. It is hard to explain as I am not an expert as many on here are. I can only say it sounded kind of muddy from the day I hooked it up.
Once installed the SC-27 has been a pure joy to listen to be it in movie mode or music. 7.1 or stereo, it sounds far superior to anything I have owned in the past, and heat is a non issue with the ICE amps they use in them. That is the main reason I bought this model, but now that I own it and have been able to listen to it for a few months and break it in I would buy it again even if it had non ICE amps in it!! I dont have what most here would consider high end speakers. I have all Polks, but I am very happy with them. I am sure it would sound even better with higher end speakers, as would my other systems, but I have always been a Polk fan for over 30 years now and I dont really see any reason to change. (I am probably to deft to notice now anyway.  ) But unless something happens to this reciever that would make me change my mind, I will buy Pioneer Elite from now on.
I am not knocking any other brands, just answering the question "is there any other pioneer owners here" is all.


----------



## Jon Liu

Welcome to the Shack, Shooter! The only major flaw to the Pioneer receivers is the lack of Firmware update via ethernet. This day and age, it really is essential, in my opinion. I owned a Pioneer Elite back a couple years ago, but ultimately got rid of that because there was one time I required a firmware update to fix an issue I had with HDMI and the overall process took 2 months. That was with me dropping off my receiver at the service center, not being shipped out, too. Electronics get upgraded to quickly to not have the benefit and convenience of firmware upgrades from the comfort of the end-user's home.

Aside from that, Pioneer makes fantastic products! I just wish they made dedicated pre/pros, too.


----------



## shooter

This is the link to do the online firmware update for the SC-27, I think you can update the 25 from the same link, if not I am sure it has one of its own.
■SC-27 HMG Firmware Update Instructions
(note: I did try to post the Internet address for the update but as I have not had five post on your forum as yet it will not allow me to do so. However if you simply google the above line it will pop up for you on Pioneers website.)
I don't know how they were years ago, but with the Internet connection built into them I just assumed they were updateable online. According to the factory instructions this happens to be true.
I checked my firmware and it is current. There has been one update since it originally came out however, but it does not look very complicated to update. Especially if you are used to updating the firmware on computers..etc.
If this was your only complaint about their equipment maybe you will consider Pioneer the next time you decide to update your equipment.
Thanks for the advice though, it did make me get off my butt and look.


----------



## hyghwayman

Shooter,
Thank you for the reply and welcome to the Home Theater Shack Forums:wave:.


----------



## shooter

Hi Don,
Thanks for the warm welcome.  It seems like a very nice forum. 
I have been lurking here for quite some time now. In fact this is where I got the name of the place in green bay to buy my pioneer at. There is not a certified dealer within almost 100 miles of me here, and they gave me a great deal on the new SC-27 with the full warranty on it.
I am sure I will be lurking around here for a long time. I learn something new each and every time I read the posts here.
Thanks again.
Gary*


----------



## BouiB

Hi all,

I've recently buyed a VSX-919 and a Pana 42G10 plasma TV.
Does anyone succeed in using Pio remote controler with this Pana TV ?

Thanks for answers


----------



## BouiB

Hi,

Nobody has tried this feature with vsx919 and pana TV ?
Thanks.


----------



## Prof.

I'm not using a Pana Tv or the Pio remote..everything on the 919 is controlled with my Harmony remote..
If you're having problem with the remote, it might be worth looking at a Harmony..


----------



## tcarcio

Pioneer has some new 3D hdmi 1.4 ready recievers now......http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/AV-Receivers/PioneerReceivers


----------



## Dale Rasco

I have an Elite SC-05 and would not trade it for anything but maybe a higher end model. I love MCACC and pretty much everything about it. I am so not looking forward to upgrading for HDMI 1.4 but know that eventually I will. :rolleyesno:


----------



## wynshadwm

BouiB said:


> Hi,
> 
> Nobody has tried this feature with vsx919 and pana TV ?
> Thanks.


"BouiB is the 919 remote universal? if it is "you probably need to spend a little more time reading the "manuals and especially the VSX-919 manual!!onder: that way yell get to figure it out in you own time, the 919 remote should at the least be able to turn on your panny TV 

Pioneer remotes could give you a little :hissyfit: sometimes as I used the VSX-74 elite receiver:scratch: but in the end its a good feeling when you figured it out good luck :clap:


----------



## StuBerger

Hey all...just noticed this thread so felt like coming in to say "Hi" and to post what I have...
VSX92TXH....This is the second Pioneer receiver I have owned since my quest for better listening which started in the 70's! First was a SX-1010...OLD...and now the 92 which I am very happy with...the sound is tight and never lacking. MCACC can be a pain in the tush but that probably has to do with the room I am forced (wife) to use. Can't wait to move and have a dedicated HT room! One big complaint is the lack of firmware updates via a internet connection and the fact one must bring the receiver into a authorized service center to have the updates installed! I would think there would be a way for Pioneer to give access to firmware files over the web and make them installable by the consumer via their PC's and a serial connection!

BTW...Hi Dale...I lost your number, please IM me it so we can chat!


----------



## fitzwaddle

Just got a new VSX-1120-K last week.


----------



## minuccims

fitzwaddle said:


> Just got a new VSX-1120-K last week.


So what are your impressions?


----------



## fitzwaddle

minuccims said:


> So what are your impressions?


Haven't done any critical listening to it yet, because my HT isn't ready - I set it up temporarily to test things out, but for example, I have no projector, concrete floors, bare drywall everywhere else - so its a real echo chamber, terrible listening environment. But gives me something to listen to while I'm working on building out the theater.

So far so good, only gripe I have so far is using the remote to advance songs while listening to the iPod interface is verrrrry slow - no biggie.


----------



## palehorse

*1. What model do you have?*
Pioneer VSX-1120-K

*2. What are your likes/dis-likes of your receiver?*
Too early to make a comprehensive list, but the sound and video processing are fantastic! I also ordered the bluetooth adaptor, which arrived on my doorstep today, so I'm looking forward to testing my wireless stereo options this weekend. 

Both setup and MCACC were a breeze; and, combined with my newly acquired SPL, I was able to dial it in very quickly and effectively. The setup GUI is very clean and intuitive.

*3. How many Pio receivers have you owned and have you ever owned different brands before going to Pioneer?*
This is my very first "real" receiver... of any kind! 

So far, so good!

(I'll post more comprehensive thoughts once I've put it through the ringer).


----------



## vitod

1. What model do you have?

*Pioneer VSX 47 TX*

2. What are your likes/dis-likes of your receiver?

HEAVY!:bigsmile: I use it mainly as a pre/pro and use the Pioneer's amps for the surrounds only. Pre amp out to the Emo XPA-3 to the fronts. Sounds very good. My main gripe is I wish it can firmware update updates with latest processing.

3. How many Pio receivers have you owned and have you ever owned different brands before going to Pioneer?

Had a Denon 3300 for a long time, then getting the Pioneer.

Read more: Are there any Pioneer receiver owners here? - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


----------



## Richard in Idaho

A couple of weeks ago I stopped by the Onkyo dealer here. Just wanted to check the retail prices before ordering a Refub.

Found out the they also sell Pioneer including the Elite. They had an open box Elite vsx-30. It was priced too low to pass up.

This is my first AVR and it seems to be a fine receiver.


----------



## Bigggdaddy72

I used to have a yamaha RX-V663 receiver,but sold it about a month ago and upgraded to a pioneer VSX-920 k.I really love my new receiver,sounds better than my yamaha.This is my third pioneer receiver,i have had rca,sony,and yamaha.I will never go back to those brands,pioneer all the way.I mainly got this receiver for 3d compatability,and 7.1 and,other goodies this receiver can offer.


----------



## Dwight Angus

I've had a VSX-84TXSi for 4 years now. Overall it does a good job. I am using it as a prepro to drive my side/rear surrounds. Bought an Emotiva XPA-3 after the pioneer damaged a tweeter in one of my SVS MTS-01 mains. Will upgrade to a new avr in the near future to get Audyssey XT as it has more functionality then MCACC


----------



## sideswiper

This is my third Pioneer receiver the first was back in 1980 it was a SX1280. The second was in 1999 it was a Pioneeer CX4000S Stereo Tuner control amp.M-5000 Power amp.PD-F507 compact Disc, Ct-W205R casette Deck. Now i just bought a Pioneer Elite VSX-30 about a month ago,it is one sweet unit, the sound and picture that come out of this receiver is great.


----------



## cpacholke

I still have my good ol' workhorse, the VSX-D906S. I've had that baby since '97 when I bought it brand new at the Camp Foster exchange in Okinawa


----------



## Tooley

I love my Pioneer receivers 
First one I got was when I moved out of my parents 16 years ago and took my dads SX-450 then a few years later I bought the SX-980 still have them both and working but I have also added A VSX-1015TX a SC-27 and a SC-09 to my collection.


----------



## BIG'EN

I recently upgraded from an Elite VSX-53TX to the Elite VSX-23TXH. The difference in sound reproduction between the two is pretty amazing. I use my receiver as a processor only and have separate amps to run my HT speakers. I am not saying the 53 had bad sound but the overall gain from just installation and adjustment required me to turn down every amp including LFE amps. I record gains of almost 10db from the LFE channel before adjusting them down to a reasonable level. The sheer options and adjustments on the 23 should require a course at the local college but after messing with it enough you eventually can figure out what is right for your listen pleasure. I have never recommended any other receiver other than Pioneer and everyone of my close friends are using Pioneer receivers. 

As far as the MCACC, I typically let it set up everything but after that I go in and change the speaker gains myself. I very seldom turn the main volume level up to 0db (reference level) so the speakers need to be bump up so I can hang around -20db to -25db level. Just my two cents.


BIG’EN


----------



## JimAckley

I've had an SC-37 for a few weeks now and absolutely love it! It's got every feature I need for my system, and even a couple that I don't! The power is more than sufficient, and MCACC makes setup a snap. It beats out everything I've owned in the past by a long shot!


----------



## Sean O

I have had the VSX-21 TXH for almost 2 years now. It currently powers my 5 Tannoy Reveal 6 speakers without a problem. I do not turn it much past -10 when watching movies. The only issue that I have had is the selection automatically switching when I turn it on. It will always switch away from the HDMI input I had it on and go to a port that is not connected. I know that I just have to adjust a setting somewhere. As many of you have said before, there are a million different settings. I like it that way, more things for me to play around with to see what I like. I do not see myself upgrading for some time. The VSX-21 should last a long time before I will need something different.


----------



## swingin

I have a question about the advanced MCACC on my Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH. Could anyone explain exactly what the EQ frequencies do in terms of instruments, for example i know the 63Hz is for bass, and the 16k is the high pitch symbols and such. Can somebody break the frequencies down for me as to what each frequencie does what instrument? Or voice. Starting low to high what does what for what instrument? 
63hz
125hz
250hz
500hz
1k
2k
4k
8k
16k..
Thank you...


----------



## eugovector

swingin said:


> I have a question about the advanced MCACC on my Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH. Could anyone explain exactly what the EQ frequencies do in terms of instruments, for example i know the 63Hz is for bass, and the 16k is the high pitch symbols and such. Can somebody break the frequencies down for me as to what each frequencie does what instrument? Or voice. Starting low to high what does what for what instrument?
> 63hz
> 125hz
> 250hz
> 500hz
> 1k
> 2k
> 4k
> 8k
> 16k..
> Thank you...


I'm afraid it's not that simple. For instance, a 5-string/20 fret bass in standard tuning goes from ~30hz to 233hz. With EQ, you shouldn't be looking to accentuate any particular instrument because 1) it impossible to do independent from the other instruments, and 2) the engineer/artist/producer mixed the recording a specific way for a reason: because it sounded good. Instead, the goal with EQ should be to fix your system so that it's response is flat at the listening position, enabling you to hear what the e/a/p heard (assuming their system was also flat).

That being said, if you're curious, here's a chart: http://www.contrabass.com/pages/frequency.html


----------



## rab-byte

I own an SC-05 and love it. My only gripe is that when I plug in headphones to it the pre-amp out to my carver and sub do not cut off so I have to power them off manually. Not a big issues but still.


----------



## swingin

First off, thank you, but that's a bit to much info, lol. My system sounds great, i personally like to tweak the snare drum up just a bit, and also need to adjust the voices, some just don't sound right. So would you happen to know which of these frequencies i would try, and for what that particular frequency is for. I didnt see any charts for snare drums on that link, again thank you...


----------



## eugovector

I'm not super familiar with MACC, so maybe some pio owners can jump in here, but I'd say start with a fresh MACC calibration with the included mic. Make sure that any playing around with speakre placement or acoustic treatments is done before this step.

From there, if the EQ adjustments won't affect other MACC settings, you can EQ to your delight:

Snare Drum: 100 Hz to 12 kHz, center frequency at 1 kHz, tight at 5-6 kHz (typical boost frequency), crack at 8 to 10 kHz, bottom at 100 to 300 Hz and resonance between 800 Hz and 2 kHz. http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id12.html


----------



## swingin

eugovector said:


> I'm not super familiar with MACC, so maybe some pio owners can jump in here, but I'd say start with a fresh MACC calibration with the included mic. Make sure that any playing around with speakre placement or acoustic treatments is done before this step.
> 
> From there, if the EQ adjustments won't affect other MACC settings, you can EQ to your delight:
> 
> Snare Drum: 100 Hz to 12 kHz, center frequency at 1 kHz, tight at 5-6 kHz (typical boost frequency), crack at 8 to 10 kHz, bottom at 100 to 300 Hz and resonance between 800 Hz and 2 kHz. http://home.earthlink.net/~prof.sound/id12.html


Thank you, thats exactly what i was looking for. :clap:


----------



## swingin

Great link, thank you..


----------



## eugovector

You're welcome.


----------



## swingin

Yeah i listened to it, as it goes i have that same PB-12 NSD sub hooked to my center channel, I also have two of the SVS PC-13 ultras in my system, so as you can imagine i have plenty of bass power. I just got through tweaking from that earth-link link you put up and WOW i can really hear the difference with just a bit of tweaking. By any chance would you happen to have any more links say for a classic rock listener? Such as vocals. Again, I thank you for your expertise.


----------



## eugovector

I just got that one with some googling. I tend to shoot for flat response and trust the e/a/p.


----------



## Prof.

I've just made some improvement to voice reproduction using MCACC..
Like instruments..voices cover a whole frequency range as well..and there can also be excessive sibilance, which I find very annoying..
To get better emphasis and projection of voices I boosted the 250 and 500 Hz. levels by 1.5dB..from what MCACC had set..
To reduce sibilance, I lowered the 4K and 8K levels by 1.5dB..


----------



## Todd Anderson

*1. What model do you have?*

I am currently using an Elite VSX21-THX as my primary receiver in my HT. I also have an older Pioneer VSX1016 that I am using to power bass shakers... and in my home gym we have a very basic VSX521 that manages our cable and DVD player in coordination with a small TV and 4 speakers.

*2. What are your likes/dis-likes of your receiver?*

Really like the VSX21-THX. Does everything I need and seems to have enough power to go to the highest level that we find comfortable. My biggest frustration with the receiver is the documentation for the MCACC. The amount of info in the manual itself is sparse and poorly presented if you want to use advanced options (not to mention there is a separate more detailed "PC software" manual that you have to download --- why they didn't include some of that info with the original manual, IDK). Hand-in-hand with that complaint is the customer support for MCACC. I recently had a question for them... I had 3 reps that couldn't answer my question and finally through an email exchange (where the emailing rep took a few days to hook up a unit and run some tests) was I able to get an answer. His answer was well written and presented --- much better than the manual... but, geese, it took days to get that far with them. Saying that you can call customer support and get an expert answer is far from the truth!

Aside from that little rant lddude:, I am very happy with the VSX21.

I purchased the VSX21 because my old Pioneer VSX1016 couldn't decode the newer codecs and had limited HDMI capabilities. It was a solid receiver, though, but as technology improved it became evident that buying the VSX21 was a good move!

The VSX521 is brand new. Honestly, it doesn't have very many options (for example, I wanted to hook my old DVD player up to it via component and run sound via optical... in the end, I couldn't do it. The only way possible was to run component with RCA cables for sound). So, some little things like that are kind of annoying. Also, the MCACC is very stripped down in terms of features (not that I needed a ton of those features for my home gym setting). All that being said, I got the receiver using AMEX points and I only needed something very basic. After a few glitches, everything is up and running and I'm happy with it.

*3. How many Pio receivers have you owned and have you ever owned different brands before going to Pioneer?*

All-in-all, I've owned three Pioneer receivers. Prior to that I had owned Kenwood :rolleyesno: and Onkyo receivers.


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## swingin

Prof. said:


> I've just made some improvement to voice reproduction using MCACC..
> Like instruments..voices cover a whole frequency range as well..and there can also be excessive sibilance, which I find very annoying..
> To get better emphasis and projection of voices I boosted the 250 and 500 Hz. levels by 1.5dB..from what MCACC had set..
> To reduce sibilance, I lowered the 4K and 8K levels by 1.5dB..


I hope you dont mind, but im gonna copy this down and give it a try on the next movie that the X-curve wont fix, thank you, Don..


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## Prof.

27dnast said:


> *1. What model do you have?*


I have the VSX919




> *2. What are your likes/dis-likes of your receiver?*


The thing I like least about MCACC is that it doesn't do any EQ for the sub..I had to buy a separate unit to tune the sub.. 
I do the like the adjustable parameters that MCACC provides, but the settings are not always reliable and generally require some manual adjustment..You might say it's a bit of a love /hate relationship! 



> Really like the VSX21-THX. Does everything I need and seems to have enough power to go to the highest level that we find comfortable. My biggest frustration with the receiver is the documentation for the MCACC. The amount of info in the manual itself is sparse and poorly presented if you want to use advanced options (not to mention there is a separate more detailed "PC software" manual that you have to download


I have to agree with you on that..The quality of the instruction manual leaves a lot to be desired and it took me months to begin to understand what it was all about...and I've been involved in HT for a long time!! lddude:



> Also, the MCACC is very stripped down in terms of features (not that I needed a ton of those features for my home gym setting).


I didn't know that some of the MCACC features had been removed in the later models! What have they taken out? 



> *3. How many Pio receivers have you owned and have you ever owned different brands before going to Pioneer?*


I've had 3 different Pio models..going right back to the Prologic days!..My previous receiver to the current Pio was a Yammy...Problem with that was the YPAO doesn't give you much adjustment..


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## Prof.

swingin said:


> I hope you dont mind, but im gonna copy this down and give it a try on the next movie that the X-curve wont fix, thank you, Don..


You're welcome..I initially had my X curve set at -0.5dB to try and reduce sibilance, but I found the EQ adjustments I made to be more effective..


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## Todd Anderson

@prof:

I don't think they've removed any features on more expensive models. The vsx512 is one of their cheapest AVRs and as a result they only give you bits and pieces of the MCACC features on their better models.

I wasn't aware of this until I fooled around with the MCACC on the 512. You can't manually EQ, etc.

Like I had said, though, for my application I don't really need the MCACC on this unit. I went in and manually set speaker distances, etc, set the speakers to large (no sub) and I'm leaving it at that! ;-)


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## Prof.

27dnast said:


> @prof.
> 
> Like I had said, though, for my application I don't really need the MCACC on this unit. I went in and manually set speaker distances, etc, set the speakers to large (no sub) and I'm leaving it at that! ;-)


Setting speaker distances manually is not always accurate because it also incorporates time delays which MCACC takes into account when setting distances..
My sub for instance, has been set at 4.9M., but physically measured it's only 3.2M. away from the seated position!..


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## Todd Anderson

Roger that... In my HT room I have the same situation. My sub setting is about 3.5 ft further away than my mains despite a nearly equal distance from the primary listening position....

I'll pull out the mic and let it do it automatically for my home gym. I only have two small bookshelf speakers and two satellite speakers in there (now I'm curious to see if there is a difference!).


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## swingin

I would like to say thank you to, Eugovector and Prof., with the information you two gave me i think my system sounds just about perfect, again, thank you for the tips and links.... Don.


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## RTS100x5

One VERY satisfied SC 35 over here  . Srry I didnt see this thread sooner


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## hyghwayman

still going into 2012, thanks everyone!

I did it, upgraded my VSX-816 to the 2012 model VSX-1122, which I have my new Pioneer 5.0 speakers hooked up to. It might not be an Elite but it sure sounds sweet.


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## derrickdj1

Congrats on the new avr. I have an SC 35 and could not be more pleased. Sub EQ is my only complaint in the Pioneer avr's. You do have to spend a little time with the manual which is quite large, lol.:boxer:


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## HiFiListener

I've had my SC-37 for about a year, and love it. Once upon a time, I was concerned about the strength of the amp section, but after much research decided to give it a try. I must admit, the ICE amps are very potent. My SC-37 is every bit as capable as my Denon 4806.


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## hearingspecialist

I sure love my VSX-30 and my Advanced MCACC!!! Long live multi point standing wave measurements:T


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## hdmiii

I own the Pioneer Elite SC-55 and love it. I used to have separates and haven't missed anything in the power department. The class D amps are amazing, even when using low sensitivity speakers.


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## auge.dog

I have 2. I have an older VSX-912 that I bought used and has been going strong for me for over 6 years. I use it in my 3-season room. When my old Onkyo crapped out, I bought a new VSX-819 about 2 years ago or so. It is also going strong. I use this one to power a modest living room system. The really good part is that when I bought the 912, it did not come with the microphone for the MCACC. However, the 819 did, and it works with the 912.


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## Teatro de BERGEN

I own a Pioneer VSX-53. wondering if this was a great choice. My previous reciever that I had was an onkyo txnr609 and I loved that it was loud and had a little of a softer sound to it. 

so far I have been tinkering with the mccac a bit. not use to it. even though its automatic. but for some reason I am not quite satisfied only if i knew this system as good as one of you maybe someone here can shed some light. 

I have my specs to what I have in my profile. feel free to let me know how to get this at optimum settings! 

if you will need more information like room dimensions, seating distance ill be happy to get that. just let me know what else that im missing thanks in advance!!!


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## CALWIRE

Hi all, I'm new to the shack. I've got an SC-57. I must say its a big step up from my last Pioneer receiver..I think I was the VSX-812 I think... I would say it's a wonderful receiver with some awesome features, but setting it up kinda a pain. I have an Ipad and I mess with the app that Pioneer supplies, but trying to do something simple like increase my bass or treble isn't as simple as I think it should be. :T


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## mufsoman

I currently own a Pioneer SC-07 AVR which I will keep till it dies. Great receiver. Before that I had a Pioneer THK1194 which also was very good, but I got upgraditis and moved to the SC-07. Before that I had a low end Denon, which just doesn't compare.....


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## Bass Hz

Teatro de BERGEN said:


> I own a Pioneer VSX-53. wondering if this was a great choice. My previous reciever that I had was an onkyo txnr609 and I loved that it was loud and had a little of a softer sound to it.
> 
> so far I have been tinkering with the mccac a bit. not use to it. even though its automatic. but for some reason I am not quite satisfied only if i knew this system as good as one of you maybe someone here can shed some light.
> 
> I have my specs to what I have in my profile. feel free to let me know how to get this at optimum settings!
> 
> if you will need more information like room dimensions, seating distance ill be happy to get that. just let me know what else that im missing thanks in advance!!!


I just purchased a vsx-60 a few weeks ago and I am using it in place of the same Onkyo as you, and I am finding sme of the same challenges. I am already a novice with mccac and feel I need to get used to it but I have had the immediate impression that the Onkyo had a better sound. Of course understanding your model is higher up the chain, I just feel the overall operation was actually better on my Onkyo (remote,OSD options). 
I look forward to see how it works out as this receiver is on a trail for a month since my txnr 609 has been in for repair since end of Julyaddle: and I may need to find a permanent replacement for it.


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## Prof.

MCACC has many manual adjustments and can take quite sometime to get to know how to use them..

If you calibrate just using "Full Auto", then you are not going to get the best sound from your receiver..
You will most likely find that full auto has set your speakers to the wrong size, and set incorrect levels to the speakers..It also sets reverb delay to a standard delay..which doesn't necessarily suit your room characteristics..

You also have three choices for the sound format..SYMMETRY..ALL CH ADJ...FRONT ALIGN..
MCACC automatically sets it to Symmetry..but that may not be the best setting for your room..Infact most people prefer ALL CH ADJ..as do I..

Then there's the EQ settings..Generally speaking, what MCACC sets in the 8 band equalizer, rarely is optimum for a well balanced front stage..

If you run the test signal for distance spacing between your LCR speakers, you will also find that it needs some adjustment as well..

There are other manual adjustments required as well, so as you can see, there is a lot of manual adjustment required before you will ever get the best sound out of your Pioneer receiver..But when all these adjustments are set right, your receiver will sing!!


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## Todd Anderson

My Elite came with the standard operating manual... which had some info about MCACC in it. But, I found this manual: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/SC-05_OperatingInstructions0708.pdf to be really helpful in further understanding it.

If you are having some issues with MCACC, and this info wasn't included with your unit, check it out.


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## rab-byte

Prof. said:


> MCACC has many manual adjustments and can take quite sometime to get to know how to use them..
> 
> If you calibrate just using "Full Auto", then you are not going to get the best sound from your receiver..
> You will most likely find that full auto has set your speakers to the wrong size, and set incorrect levels to the speakers..It also sets reverb delay to a standard delay..which doesn't necessarily suit your room characteristics..
> 
> You also have three choices for the sound format..SYMMETRY..ALL CH ADJ...FRONT ALIGN..
> MCACC automatically sets it to Symmetry..but that may not be the best setting for your room..Infact most people prefer ALL CH ADJ..as do I..
> 
> Then there's the EQ settings..Generally speaking, what MCACC sets in the 8 band equalizer, rarely is optimum for a well balanced front stage..
> 
> If you run the test signal for distance spacing between your LCR speakers, you will also find that it needs some adjustment as well..
> 
> There are other manual adjustments required as well, so as you can see, there is a lot of manual adjustment required before you will ever get the best sound out of your Pioneer receiver..But when all these adjustments are set right, your receiver will sing!!


Sounds like you have a lot of practice with mcacc. Any chance you'd have time to write us a FAQ on it?


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## Todd Anderson

Here's a link to some info I had written on using the different memory presets (you'll have to skip to the end to see my conclusions)


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## hyghwayman

27dnast said:


> Here's a link to some info I had written on using the different memory presets (you'll have to skip to the end to see my conclusions)


Thank you for taking the time to ask the questions in your thread, replying and answering your own questions about MCACC.


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## Todd Anderson

It is a little amusing, isn't it?


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## Steve S

I have an SC-37 that is 2 years old. It is great for movies and TV, and above average for music. It replaced a Rotel receiver that was pre HDMI. I think the Rotel sounds better with music, but I love using the HDMI switching on the Pioneer, and not changing the inputs to the TV. I also like to try the various surround modes for movies and music.

I added 2 height speakers last week, and am playing around with that. My configuration is 3 B&W M1's high across the front, 2 B&W CM towers left and right, and 2 B&W M1's up high in the rear, and a super cube 2 sub.

This house has a media room that was prewired, and I finally took advantage of the setup when I added the height speakers in the front and the surrounds in the rear.

I use the auto setup for the room and it works great.


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## gsmollin

Steve S said:


> I have an SC-37 that is 2 years old. It is great for movies and TV, and above average for music. It replaced a Rotel receiver that was pre HDMI. I think the Rotel sounds better with music, but I love using the HDMI switching on the Pioneer, and not changing the inputs to the TV. I also like to try the various surround modes for movies and music.
> 
> I added 2 height speakers last week, and am playing around with that. My configuration is 3 B&W M1's high across the front, 2 B&W CM towers left and right, and 2 B&W M1's up high in the rear, and a super cube 2 sub.
> 
> This house has a media room that was prewired, and I finally took advantage of the setup when I added the height speakers in the front and the surrounds in the rear.
> 
> I use the auto setup for the room and it works great.


The Rotel is a better amplifier than the Pioneer, especially with B&W 3-way speakers, like the CM7 or 9. They have an impedance dip to about 3.2 ohms at the woofer-midrange crossover, and the Pioneer amps do not drive that dip well. I had this setup, and never liked the sound. The Pioneer actually tripped off with a particular explosion in "Doom", alerting me to a serious amplifier problem. I set the impedance to six ohms, and that helped, but did not make the amp sound better with music. I finally sold the Pioneer and got a Yamaha, which works much better because it is rated for four ohm speakers. 
If you have preamp outputs, put the Rotel on the CM fronts.


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## CHASLS2

I have a dead SC35 sitting on the floor, heard a pop and poof. Now have a SC61, both sound the same. Added a Acurus A200 amp and it really makes my Studio 10V5's shine. Hope to have my new Paradgim Insprations soon and give them a shot.


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## jpopperez

I have the 1122k I've heard things I never heard with my 606


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## hyghwayman

jpopperez said:


> I have the 1122k I've heard things I never heard with my 606


 Hope the things your hearing is music to your ears !


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## jpopperez

I've been having handshaking issues so I swapped it for a denon 1913 like it so far


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## Bass Hz

Prof. said:


> MCACC has many manual adjustments and can take quite sometime to get to know how to use them..
> 
> If you calibrate just using "Full Auto", then you are not going to get the best sound from your receiver..
> You will most likely find that full auto has set your speakers to the wrong size, and set incorrect levels to the speakers..It also sets reverb delay to a standard delay..which doesn't necessarily suit your room characteristics..
> 
> You also have three choices for the sound format..SYMMETRY..ALL CH ADJ...FRONT ALIGN..
> MCACC automatically sets it to Symmetry..but that may not be the best setting for your room..Infact most people prefer ALL CH ADJ..as do I..
> 
> Then there's the EQ settings..Generally speaking, what MCACC sets in the 8 band equalizer, rarely is optimum for a well balanced front stage..
> 
> If you run the test signal for distance spacing between your LCR speakers, you will also find that it needs some adjustment as well..
> 
> There are other manual adjustments required as well, so as you can see, there is a lot of manual adjustment required before you will ever get the best sound out of your Pioneer receiver..But when all these adjustments are set right, your receiver will sing!!


Thanks for the input it wish I checked a bit sooner because the VSX 60 got returned 2 weeks ago. I was hoping to get my original receiver back by now, but since that hasn't happened and I returned the AVR I won't get to tinker with those settings. 

I will have to say the menu took me almost the whole month to get used to do I could only imagine the time it would take me to get settled into a pioneer AVR. I feel the pioneer would have proved efficient, but IMO the Onkyo provided a smoother operation from settings to basic control functions.


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## hyghwayman

hyghwayman said:


> Thank you for taking the time to ask the questions in your thread, replying and answering your own questions about MCACC.





Todd Anderson said:


> It is a little amusing, isn't it?


Yes, back then and still is today


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