# Have We Reached a Temporary "Future-Proof" AVR Status?



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

As I understand my Audyssey thread has been shut down -- and the strange thing about it was that yes, it did begin to go into a tangent and discussion about lower volume values with higher perceived output levels (which I am discussing now in private with Ares) rather than concentrate on whether Audyssey of any level should be used versus not using it -- I now began expanded thinking about upgrading my Onkyo 605 for a model that includes more advanced calibration techniques and more power. While moderator Jack seemingly relishes "picking" on my 605 and referring to certain aspects of what I stated in the previous thread as "ironic" with regard to the "higher volume output at lower volume displays" and using Audyssey Volume to achieve that (if my receiver had that), this element is not what I was referring to with my stated preference and desired effect parameters. Audyssey Volume would not really "achieve" what I do with my personal volume level settings on the 605, in a current state. 

At any rate, as I attempt to walk the coveted upgrade path and do a bit better than my 605, I began thinking about something a bit different and a bit more interesting -- if I do consider a dynamically more expensive Onkyo AVR, for example one of the 800-series-or-up models that have been regularly recommended here, what are the chances it will become sonically obsolete in the near future? In other words, right now, we have Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio as the formidable, primary advanced codecs which AVRs and processors account for with onboard decoders -- but does anyone have any inside information or tips that would lead to suggest that new, more advanced codecs are on route? With 3D around the corner ready for mass consumption, are there any audio codec revolutions about to be announced as well, which would make spending upwards of $1K on an AVR seem out of place right now? 

I'm just contemplating the possibility that I invest in a plus-$1K receiver right now only to discover that on the horizon are new surround codecs that are supposed to sonically improve even the Master Audio and TrueHD variants -- thus requiring a new AVR yet again for decoding of those formats. Of course, there is the possibility that new source components could decode the ultra-new formats and send them theoretically and most likely as multichannel PCM, but that too would require a new source component purchase so the brand-new codecs are supported _there_...

Any thoughts? Have we pretty much brickwalled at future-proofing our AVRs for awhile (taking the HDMI 1.4 3D spec out of the equation) or is there something on the horizon? I'd like to know this before pulling the trigger on a new Onkyo.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Osage,
I regret that somehow you feel picked on. I simply have pointed out that newer features such as Audyssey Volume address giving you a more balanced sound when playing at lower volumes. The Audyssey Thread was getting nowhere and sometimes it is better to move on.

As this Thread seems directed primarily at me, I will only say I have spent a great deal of time trying to assist you as best that I can. If you cannot see that and would rather feel that I am relishing the opportunity to point out your AVR could be better, you are wrong. I actually dread bringing it up. It is simply it seems fairly clear you could truly benefit from an AVR with a stronger Amplifier Section and more powerful version of Audyssey.

You mentioned that budget was an issue and I pointed out that OPPO's have stellar resale value and the combined proceeds of that and the sale of your 605 would provide a much better all around experience than having a top notch BDP and entry level AVR. Especially since with 1080p/24 Material when bitstreamed, there is not a great deal of difference between a 150 Dollar BDP and a 3000 Dollar BDP. I was only trying to give you a cost effective solution. Yet, somehow you feel to be a victim. Pity.
Sincerely,
"Moderator Jack"


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

No. This thread was not aimed squarely at you. I merely pointed out my feelings about the previous debacle early in the paragraph structure. 

No pity required. :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Also, you can pick up a TX-NR1007 for 849 from Accessories4less. This really would be a great AVR for you.
The replacement 1008 is actually 200 Dollars cheaper, no longer offers MultEQ XT, THX Ultra2 Plus Processing, and weighs over 10 Pounds less. I would way rather have the 1007 than the 1008.

And while I only use my 875 as an SSP, I could not be happier with it and have no plans to upgrade it. It is from the same Series as your 605.

What I regret is I really have tried to help you and provide ideas where you upgrade your AVR without a massive outlay of money. And yet, you feel like I get some sort of excitement by pointing out what Features your 605 lacks. When it really is you really strike me as someone passionate about HT and I genuinely think you would greatly benefit from a higher Series Onkyo. Not to pick on your 605.


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## chkngreez (May 11, 2010)

Osage,

As with any type of technology, when you upgrade a component there will always be the risk of something better being just around the corner. Buying a new AVR is no different, however, I would feel more comfortable with upgrading that as opposed to a TV. The codecs that are in place now should very well be the industry standard for years to come, but I cannot guarantee that will be the case. With new 3D content becoming available, it is possible but unlikely that the standards in place now will change, simply because the codecs are designed to give the listener a 3D experience anyway. To answer your question, I feel that at least for the short-term an upgrade will serve you well.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Also, you can pick up a TX-NR1007 for 849 from Accessories4less. This really would be a great AVR for you.
> The replacement 1008 is actually 200 Dollars cheaper, no longer offers MultEQ XT, THX Ultra2 Plus Processing, and weighs over 10 Pounds less. I would way rather have the 1007 than the 1008.


How many times do I have to express to you, Jack, that I simply _prefer_ not to buy refurbished? I have been down this road before -- a couple of times actually, and have been burned. I completely appreciate all the assistance and suggestion input you have given, I truly and honestly do, and have considered it all, but why do I feel as though you're feeling "bitter" or unwilling to help just because I "refuse" (as you see it) to either buy refurbished or do _exactly_ what you're telling me to? I would appreciate any input in terms of one of Onkyo's _current_ AVRs that would be a good replacement for my 605 and be future-proof to a degree, in keeping with this thread's theme -- I would even consider an outdated model that was built tank-like based on what you guys know, but that isn't refurbished. 



> And while I only use my 875 as an SSP, I could not be happier with it and have no plans to upgrade it. It is from the same Series as your 605.


But what about any concerns of AVRs of the current vintage becoming obsolete very soon based on upcoming technologies or new codec support? Is there any risk of this happening any time very soon? 



> What I regret is I really have tried to help you and provide ideas where you upgrade your AVR without a massive outlay of money. And yet, you feel like I get some sort of excitement by pointing out what Features your 605 lacks.


No regret required -- as stated above, I truly and wholeheartedly appreciate all the feedback and input. But isn't it up to someone to decide for him or herself which advice to take and what would be best for his/her needs? Where I am getting the "605 defense mechanism" element from is the fact that every time we talk about it, or I point out which features it doesn't have based on something you suggested -- for example, I tried to point out that my 605 didn't have the "relative" volume scale in which to calibrate to a "0"dB value but you answered with "Pity" -- there is a reply making full note of the limitations of my unit. I know it has limited processing abilities. I realize it's underpowered. I know it doesn't have a beast of a power supply. You say that you feel as though I feel like you get some kind of excitement out of pointing out the features my AVR lacks, but what other feelings can be assumed based on the conversations we have in which each time there's a list of things my AVR doesn't or won't do? I want to upgrade -- I just prefer it not be in the refurbished arena. I'm well aware of the 605's shortcomings; can't we just move beyond this? :dontknow:



> When it really is you really strike me as someone passionate about HT and I genuinely think you would greatly benefit from a higher Series Onkyo.


I am and I would like to move up to a higher series Onkyo -- I'm _trying_ to scrape up the funds to do so towards a new one. 

That said, let's move back into the point of _this_ thread, yes? Is there any evidence right now of a new codec or technology -- aside from HDMI 1.4 -- that would seem to indicate current AVRs and processors are on the verge of being obsolete? Should this be a worry for those shopping for a more mid-to-upper AVR like I am?


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

chkngreez said:


> Osage,
> 
> As with any type of technology, when you upgrade a component there will always be the risk of something better being just around the corner. Buying a new AVR is no different, however, I would feel more comfortable with upgrading that as opposed to a TV. The codecs that are in place now should very well be the industry standard for years to come, but I cannot guarantee that will be the case. With new 3D content becoming available, it is possible but unlikely that the standards in place now will change, simply because the codecs are designed to give the listener a 3D experience anyway. To answer your question, I feel that at least for the short-term an upgrade will serve you well.


Thank you very much for your thoughts,'Greez. This is more in line of what I wanted to know. :T

What I am more concerned with, which you addressed in varying degrees, is whether Dolby and DTS will release some kind of massively influential technology or new surround codec variant -- and I mean something more than just the "Pro Logic Height Channel" thing which I couldn't see buying a new piece of hardware for -- that would make the purchase of a $1K-plus AVR right now seem outdated; I don't want to do that, as whatever I pay for my upgraded AVR is going to mean a _big_ chunk of money for my wife and I right now. 

Again, thank you for your thoughts. :T


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## favelle (Jan 19, 2009)

Lossless is lossless....its not really going to get any better than that, codec-wise...


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Osage_Winter said:


> How many times do I have to express to you, Jack, that I simply _prefer_ not to buy refurbished? I have been down this road before -- a couple of times actually, and have been burned. I completely appreciate all the assistance and suggestion input you have given, I truly and honestly do, and have considered it all, but why do I feel as though you're feeling "bitter" or unwilling to help just because I "refuse" (as you see it) to either buy refurbished or do _exactly_ what you're telling me to? I would appreciate any input in terms of one of Onkyo's _current_ AVRs that would be a good replacement for my 605 and be future-proof to a degree, in keeping with this thread's theme -- I would even consider an outdated model that was built tank-like based on what you guys know, but that isn't refurbished.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Osage,
If you are going to quote me, please do get it right as here is my reply to your 605 not having a Reference Volume setup: "Bummer that your Volume goes from 0-99 as opposed to being setup for a Reference Level. I do not have very much experience with the 605 or know many people who use one."

The only thread when the word "pity" was used by me was your most recent missive. And it had solely to do with my regret that you feel somehow picked on.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

chkngreez said:


> Osage,
> 
> As with any type of technology, when you upgrade a component there will always be the risk of something better being just around the corner.


This is not a risk, it is a fact! but at some point you have to make a decision and jump in. If all your going to do is stick your toes in the water you will never upgrade.


Osage_Winter said:


> I would even consider an outdated model that was built tank-like based on what you guys know, but that isn't refurbished.


If thats the case then your still looking at a used model? Your reasoning makes no sense give that a refurbished unit from Accessories4less is inspected by Onkyo and comes with a full warrentee. Its basically brand new. As a matter of fact some units have never even seen the light of day as they were simply over stock items form another seller.

Osage, If you want a good receiver and want to stay within a budget then refurbished is the only way to go. New units even if they are last years model will maintain there value fairly well and dont drop in price all that much. We have given you many options and suggestions along the way. If your not satisfied with our suggestions please dont go around stating that we are not listening to you as we really do know what we are talking about.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
There is nothing in HDMI 1.4, with the exception of full 3D Support, that makes it a critical issue to have it.
Moreover, I am not aware of anyone of Staff here who have switched to or immediately planning to switch to an HDMI 1.4 AVR/SSP. With HDMI 1.3, there was a major migration where most everyone I knew switched over.

As to new Codecs coming in the future, this is why many of us recommend AVR's with Multichannel Analog Inputs. These Inputs are about the only thing that will not be affected by the upcoming "Analog Sunset" where HDMI will become virtually mandatory for all High Definition Video. In addition, having Preamp Outputs and Audyssey MultEQ XT combined with a strong Amplifier Section are the features which make for a long lasting centerpiece.

This is why many of us have recommended either the TX-SR876 or TX-NR1007. The TX-NR807 lacks Multichannel Analog Inputs and does not have nearly as accomplished of an Amplifier Section as evidenced in the 807 being THX Select2 Plus Certified where the above are Ultra2 Plus.

With the 007 Series being discontinued and the replacement for the 1007 being a downgrade, there has never been a better time to pickup a TX-NR1007. Or ideally, a TX-NR3007 provided 3D is not a major factor in your future planning.
JJ


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

I do not see any problem with purchasing an HDMI 1.3 AVR or SSP as the majority of BD players that come out I would presume with have 2 outputs, one for Audio and one for Video therefore allowing continuation of usage for HDMI 1.3 owners, and don't forget this is for people going for the new 3D panels and players, I may look at the new 3D kit but already having the big screen via my Projector so I will not be rushing out to buy into it yet, although that may change when I have my first demo :whistling:


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

favelle said:


> Lossless is lossless....its not really going to get any better than that, codec-wise...


In many ways true, Favelle, but there's _always_ something that "gets better"...:T


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Osage,
> If you are going to quote me, please do get it right as here is my reply to your 605 not having a Reference Volume setup: "Bummer that your Volume goes from 0-99 as opposed to being setup for a Reference Level. I do not have very much experience with the 605 or know many people who use one."
> 
> The only thread when the word "pity" was used by me was your most recent missive. And it had solely to do with my regret that you feel somehow picked on.


I stand corrected -- you did say "Bummer" with regard to answering me about my reference volume comment; I had thought it was "Pity." Either way, you were giving advice and guidance, offering insight and opinion, when you didn't know the 605 did not have a relative volume scale nor did you "know many people who use one." :T


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> If thats the case then your still looking at a used model? Your reasoning makes no sense give that a refurbished unit from Accessories4less is inspected by Onkyo and comes with a full warrentee. Its basically brand new. As a matter of fact some units have never even seen the light of day as they were simply over stock items form another seller.


Why does my reasoning "make no sense"? Do I need to explain, yet again, why I do not prefer refurbished? It doesn't matter if Onkyo inspected it or didn't inspect it for Accessories4less; I prefer not to buy refurbished...why does this not make any sense? 



> Osage, If you want a good receiver and want to stay within a budget then refurbished is the only way to go. New units even if they are last years model will maintain there value fairly well and dont drop in price all that much. We have given you many options and suggestions along the way. If your not satisfied with our suggestions please dont go around stating that we are not listening to you as we really do know what we are talking about.


Oh brother...

That's _not_ what I am saying, nor what I am accusing anyone of -- what you're telling me is that refurbished is the _only_ way to go even _with_ a budget? New is not even an _option?_ I'm not implying that none of you know what you're talking about -- please reel this sentiment in for a moment, because that's not what's happening. And it's not that I don't want to take any advice here -- but I am stating what my preferences are what the parameters I can follow within those preferences can be, and it still keeps coming back to "You're reasoning for not wanting refurbished makes no sense..." and every variant of that reply. I'd rather stick with new, but something that I could afford and would be an increase in performance from my current 605 *and I would be willing to buy a replaced model IF IT WERE BEING SOLD BRAND NEW SOMEWHERE.* 

But that's not even the theme of this thread here and now -- I'm wondering if I do splurge on a new AVR in Onkyo's current lineup, something above and beyond what my 605 does now, will this purchase become obsolete in at least the near future with any new codecs coming down the pipeline? Is TrueHD and MA pretty much here to stay for awhile? That's what I am pondering, and attempting to get feedback on via this thread creation.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Osage,
You are pretty nifty there with your quotes and Caps Lock. I would caution you that the way that you are responding to people who are honestly trying to help you is going to end with Members not replying or simply ignoring you.

And again, there are no new groundbreaking Codecs just out of reach. You can find A-Stock TX-NR1007's from Newegg for 979. Moreover, I constantly advise those reticent to purchase B-Stock that Newegg is an Authorized Dealer and usually have the best prices available. 

And finally, there is not some cabal where we only recommend B-Stock AVR's. However, with many Members on a fairly limited budget, your money goes so much further when purchasing B-Stock. Models like the TX-SR707 being available for 449 (899 MSRP) from AC4L which is what many Stores sell the TX-SR607 for really illustrates the point. This being a Model with Preamp Outputs, THX Processing and MultEQ as well. Features that will allow one to expand their HT without issue.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Osage,
> You are pretty nifty there with your quotes and Caps Lock. I would caution you that the way that you are responding to people who are honestly trying to help you is going to end with Members not replying or simply ignoring you.


It's not "being nifty" it's attempting to express heartfelt emotion and stress certain points that one cannot via internet forum boards and without verbally communicating with another human being. If this is seen as reason to "not reply" or to "ignore me" as you put it, there's not much I can do about that -- whatever anyone thinks based on the quasi-arguments you and I have had on here (when all I was trying to do was state my case and obtain new-model suggestions regarding my next upgrade) I am _not_ attempting to ignore any "advice" nor am I relishing any sentiments that I somehow enjoy "not listening to people." 

Aside from attempting to explain that I realize my 605 has a feature set that may be considered a bit "not up to the task" as well as desperately trying to express that I would prefer to pick from Onkyo's _new_ lineup of AVRs, what evidence is there that would pressure someone to feel as though they shouldn't respond any longer? I've stressed complete and utter thanks and heartfelt awareness for the assistance that has been given thus far -- not just from you, but _from everyone on HomeTheaterShack._ 

To quote you distinctly, it is indeed a pity if you cannot see that. 



> And again, there are no new groundbreaking Codecs just out of reach.


You say "again"...where did you suggest that there are no new codec developments on the horizon? If I missed this somehwere in our discussions, please point it out. It's what I was trying to ascertain. 



> You can find A-Stock TX-NR1007's from Newegg for 979.


Is this new? 



> Moreover, I constantly advise those reticent to purchase B-Stock that Newegg is an Authorized Dealer and usually have the best prices available.


So, does Newegg stock both used and new? 



> And finally, there is not some cabal where we only recommend B-Stock AVR's. However, with many Members on a fairly limited budget, your money goes so much further when purchasing B-Stock. Models like the TX-SR707 being available for 449 (899 MSRP) from AC4L which is what many Stores sell the TX-SR607 for really illustrates the point. This being a Model with Preamp Outputs, THX Processing and MultEQ as well. Features that will allow one to expand their HT without issue.


I understand that. And again, I appreciate the suggestion and recommendation. I would still prefer sticking to brand new -- and somehow get that into my budget. But to suggest that "there is not some cabal where we only recommend B-Stock AVRs" is a bit of a stretch into the science of validity -- if you look back, you will see where one can clearly assume that's all that tends to be suggested here. But even beyond that, there's the sentiment that if someone simply chooses to reply back with a statement in the area of _"Thank you...I honestly and wholeheartedly understand and seriously with all my soul thank you for the B-Stock recommendation...but I just prefer, with all due respect to your knowledge, that I purchase new because of various things that have negatively impacted my retail purchasing experiences in the used prospect..."_ that it's completely and utterly frowned upon here, leading to members not wishing to reply any longer. That's simply head-scratching to me. 

I realize you are going to comment back with attempting to make me look as if _I_ did something to create all this and that what I am doing is counterproductive to the site and so forth, but I'd appreciate it if you would simply stick to the current theme of the current thread -- that is, discussing whether or not a current AVR purchase would not be a good move due to some new technologies that may be right around the corner (outside of the HDMI 1.4 3D spec). Can we continue discussing _this_ please? 

Do you feel -- taking all pricing, used/new banter, etc. out of the situation -- that there may be reason to back off an expensive AVR purchase now due to the suspicion that there may be a new codec formation or something else ahead?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I think we've hit an impasse and it's time to part as friends. This thread is locked before we get any more carried away.


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