# Need Help with Selecting Towers



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

This is my first post and I'm a total noob when it comes to audio. A while back I decided I'd start piecing together a new 3.1 system for our home. I have purchased a smaller receiver and a sub and now I'd like to pick out some towers (i have old bookshelf speakers and a center that I will eventually replace). 

I'd like to keep the towers under 1k and I know that I don't have a ton of power coming from my receiver so I'm prob limited in size (I'm assuming). 

Although I'd like suggestions on a set of towers, I'm really curious in the thought process for selecting towers based on what I currently have. So, for example, how would one approach pairing towers with with the SVS sub? 

Receiver - Marantz 1403
Sub - SB1000
Room is approx 12x13

Any feedback is appreciated. 

Thanks!


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Hello, welcome to the forum.

Thanks for posting your budget and room dimensions.

There are a lot of options available to you.
Where are you located?
What kind of music do you listen to most often?
What do you dislike about the sound of the speakers you have now? 
What speakers have you heard that you like (even if they are over budget)?


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

In the order that you asked ...

We're in Dallas, TX.
I prob do 80% movies over music but when listening to music it ranges from classical, to classic rock to electric.
The speakers I have now are small Klipsch bookshelf speakers. I get the feeling that they just don't put out a ton of accuracy or sound for that matter. 
Most recently I've heard some B&Ws (683 s2 I believe) that sounded pretty good. 

Where are you located?
What kind of music do you listen to most often?
What do you dislike about the sound of the speakers you have now?
What speakers have you heard that you like (even if they are over budget)?


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For you $1000 budget the Chane ARX A5 towers would be the ones to get. Reasonably easy to drive and at $429 each it keeps the price under budget by a couple bucks.
http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/A5rx-c


----------



## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Your room is on the small side, so you won't need a lot of volume to fill it. If the speakers are reasonably efficient you should be fine with that receiver. One thing I would caution against is using towers that don't match the center. Those are the 3 most critical in your system and if they aren't 'voiced' similarly you'll end up with an uneven sound field.

What if your 1K budget could (almost) buy all 5 speakers from the same company? If that sounds appealing check out the Chane rx-c speakers. A pair of A3 towers, two A1's for surrounds and the A2 for a center would get you a really nice setup, and it would be just a hair over 1K for everything. Another potential option would be the Crystal Acoustics TX-T1 towers and matching THX-CT center. I own Crystal Acoustics speakers myself and they're quite good.


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks, Tony.

I'll check those out.


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

theJman said:


> Your room is on the small side, so you won't need a lot of volume to fill it. If the speakers are reasonably efficient you should be fine with that receiver. One thing I would caution against is using towers that don't match the center. Those are the 3 most critical in your system and if they aren't 'voiced' similarly you'll end up with an uneven sound field.
> 
> What if your 1K budget could (almost) buy all 5 speakers from the same company? If that sounds appealing check out the Chane rx-c speakers. A pair of A3 towers, two A1's for surrounds and the A2 for a center would get you a really nice setup, and it would be just a hair over 1K for everything. Another potential option would be the Crystal Acoustics TX-T1 towers and matching THX-CT center. I own Crystal Acoustics speakers myself and they're quite good.


If I looked those up correctly it looks like the price of the Chane and Crystal aren't too far apart. I've never heard either...would you happen to have any thoughts on the difference in their sound.

P.S. - I'll keep with the suggestion to match my towers and center as you suggested.


----------



## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

vrenfroe said:


> If I looked those up correctly it looks like the price of the Chane and Crystal aren't too far apart. I've never heard either...would you happen to have any thoughts on the difference in their sound.
> 
> P.S. - I'll keep with the suggestion to match my towers and center as you suggested.


The CA speakers would cost less, but that's for 3 of them (2 towers and a center). The Chane's would be 5 speakers, so that setup would include the surrounds. Crystal Acoutics does sell the TX-B1 bookshelf but including those would exceed your budget, so I left them off.

The speakers are closer in sound than they are different. Both provide very good detail, nice imaging and 'airy' treble. Each has the ability to achieve a surprising amount of volume without breaking up, but given the size of your room that's probably not a selling feature. Efficiency is essentially the same, so that's a draw. Appearance favors the CA's - which admittedly is a personal preference - while the Chane's probably have an edge with accuracy.

Frankly, having either heard (Chane) or owned (CA) both of them I don't think either is a bad choice. Different perhaps, but not bad.


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

Thanks, Jim.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I have never heard the Chane or Crystal speakers so I have no opinion on them.
Speakers are the most personal part of any audio system and I have a hard time considering a speaker purchase without hearing them.
Most internet direct companies offer in home audition, that is a fair way to sell speakers if the company is willing to eat all shipping charges in the event you want to return them.
Dallas is a pretty good city for audio auditions.
The biggest specialty retailer is probably Starpower. They carry a lot of brands and they have them available for audition. The store on the North tollway near Beltline is the largest.
I think there is a Modia at The Shops At Legacy, I have not visited it, but I used to go to the one that closed on Central
The Best Buy at Park Ln has a real Magnolia store, they may be a little pricey but they have some great stuff there.
Of course there are a couple of Fry's in the area and they run some pretty good sales and even though some poo poo regular Best Buys they usually have several decent speakers hooked up you can listen too.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The issue I have with many if not all store front audio places is the markup they add to the price of speakers. Internet direct companies like Chane, SVS HSU and so forth is they give you a much bigger bang for buck as your not paying much overhead costs.


----------



## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Having the A5rx-c, A2rx-c, and A1rx-c, I'll recommend any of the Chane speakers for powerful movies and all classes of music. With these you're paying for great audio performance instead of non essential visual eye candy (no high dollar exotic wood veneers or glossy piano black paint) and that is why I bought these. I would describe the look as masculine instead of elegant. Perfect for me.

I haven't heard the A3rx-c (tower speaker) but the A2rx-c is very similar (very large bookshelf). If you're open to the idea of a large bookshelf speaker, the A2rx-c would easily fill that space with sound. Using 3 identical A2rx-c speakers for the front sound stage would be optimal and it would save a few dollars compared to the A3rx-c towers.

Check out this HTS review & discussion about the A2rx-c 3.1 setup....

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...7865-chane-a2rx-c-5-0-loudspeaker-review.html


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Vrenfroe,
What do you think of the SB1000?
Did it make much difference to the system you have now?

Also which Klipsch bookshelf speakers do you have now?


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

The bookshelf speakers I have are about 15 years old. They are ksb 1.1s I believe. Also, the sb1000 is great but I didn't own anything before so I don't have a baseline to compare against. I do, however, really like it.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for answering the questions. I am a big believer in listening to speakers and learning what you like. All the different brands sound different and even within the same series of speakers they sound different/better with each step up. The SB 1000 is a very nice unit, it is capable of a lot. I might not rule out purchasing $1000/pr bookshelf speakers instead of the towers, you can get considerably higher in the speaker line up going that route. Just something to consider. I hesitate to start recommending specific speakers since they really are a very personal preference piece of gear. KEF, Tannoy, Paradigm, Martin Logan, Dali, B&W, Sonus Faber all make some nice equipment.
Between Starpower and the Best Buy at Central and Park Ln you should be able to listen to most of these brands.
There are some more shops around Dallas if you still need more options let me know.


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

chashint said:


> Thanks for answering the questions. I am a big believer in listening to speakers and learning what you like. All the different brands sound different and even within the same series of speakers they sound different/better with each step up. The SB 1000 is a very nice unit, it is capable of a lot. I might not rule out purchasing $1000/pr bookshelf speakers instead of the towers, you can get considerably higher in the speaker line up going that route. Just something to consider. I hesitate to start recommending specific speakers since they really are a very personal preference piece of gear. KEF, Tannoy, Paradigm, Martin Logan, Dali, B&W, Sonus Faber all make some nice equipment.
> Between Starpower and the Best Buy at Central and Park Ln you should be able to listen to most of these brands.
> There are some more shops around Dallas if you still need more options let me know.


Thanks for the feedback. I'll hit those places up before I make a final decision. I've tried best buy and I did like the BW towers I listened to. One reason I was leaning towards towers was because of the overall look. Our TV doesnt leave enough room on the stand for speakers to sit and, though it may sound silly, I don't like the look of book shelf speakers on narrow stands.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I understand about wanting the speakers to look good.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

As a general rule towers will also dig deeper in frequency response.


----------



## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

vrenfroe said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I'll hit those places up before I make a final decision. I've tried best buy and I did like the BW towers I listened to. One reason I was leaning towards towers was because of the overall look. Our TV doesnt leave enough room on the stand for speakers to sit and, though it may sound silly, I don't like the look of book shelf speakers on narrow stands.


 If you're open to a bookshelf speaker with stands that make them appear to be towers, I'd consider the Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2. That's what I own, and I've never heard better, for either home theater or music.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

vrenfroe said:


> I don't like the look of book shelf speakers on narrow stands.


Many wives don't either! In-walls, anyone? :R


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

Lumen said:


> Many wives don't either! In-walls, anyone? :R


This is a true statement...and the wife is part of the selection process in terms of aesthetics!


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

After I narrowed down the possibles I took my wife with me to listen a few times.
Considering this was a bunch of money and we would be listening to them for a long time it seemed only reasonable to let her help pick them.
I really paid attention to what she had to say about the sound and it turned out she was a big help.

One thing I did when I had no clue what I wanted and I was shopping by myself was to close my eyes and have the salesman switch between any two speakers, just switch back and forth between the two until I decided which I liked best.
Then I would have the preferred speaker switched against another one.
The salesman was free to switch previously heard speakers back into the mix if he wanted.
I did not know anything about the speaker playing, I just knew which one I liked best between the two playing.
Sure there are lots of pitfalls with this method, but regardless of the issues it is one way to narrow a field.
The world is an imperfect place so you just do the best you can, as far as a speaker with louder SPL sounding "better" ... well one of my requirements for a speaker is to be very efficient so if a great sounding speaker fell out because it was quieter, good riddence.

Something else I learned was to keep your demo material very limited, pick a couple or three of songs you really like and narrow the field with the limited demo material.
Probably helpful if there is a male and female voice, as well as a passage that is complex with a lot going on at the same time.
Listen for clarity of the voices and if the instruments can be heard individually or if the sound is smeared together.
Listening to how speakers sound is not really the same as listening to music.
It is best to make sure the AVR or processor is in Pure Direct mode and any subwoofers in the room are turned off.
Simply turning off the sub is not going to allow you to hear the speaker, the AVR or processor has to be in the correct mode so it is not doing bass management.

Once you get it whittled down, to three or four choices, bring in more stuff to listen to.

I am a total geek when it comes to this stuff, I think it is fun to pick out equipment, lots of people just think its an expensive chore.
Hopefully you will have fun with it.


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Great strategy, chasint! Lots of people--myself included--poke fun at WAF. But involving them? What a positive and novel concept!
Really, really, really agree with your demo material decisions.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

My wife and I both try to indulge each others interests and hobbies.
Her ear for musical details is better than mine.
She played violin in an orchestra through her college years, so she is well versed on what instruments are supposed to sound like.
Having Superwoman hearing doesn't hurt anything either.....unless you are trying to sneak a cookie.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

vrenfroe said:


> Thanks for the feedback. I'll hit those places up before I make a final decision. I've tried best buy and I did like the BW towers I listened to. One reason I was leaning towards towers was because of the overall look. Our TV doesnt leave enough room on the stand for speakers to sit and, though it may sound silly, I don't like the look of book shelf speakers on narrow stands.


Any news to report?


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

The wife and I have headed up to Vermont on vacation so my search has been a bit delayed. I should have some updates in a couple weeks.


----------



## spectra7.0 (Sep 22, 2013)

Looking forward to it.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

That sounds like a good trip.


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

Greetings, all. 

First, thanks so much for the feedback. In the end, I decided to go with the Chane A3s. I wanted to give them some time to break in before I posted, but even on day 1 the wife and I were really impressed coming from the Kplish book shelf speakers I had. 

To be honest, my main reason for going with Chane was because I'm a sucker for "direct to consumer." I didn't read a single negative thing about the speakers and the price point made is such that I could include a center and stay under 1k, which was another attractive piece of the deal. If I had a knock it would be that shipping for returns isn't covered. Although I don't want to return them, I was very apprehensive about buying something that could possibly cost me a couple hundred in shipping (total) if I didn't like them. 

One thing that I found difficult when listening to speakers was hearing a difference in mid-tier speakers. Gaps between something like Energy and B&W seemed noticeable but the gap in price was also very noticeable . Additionally, our room is simply not optimal for sound (IMO). We have tile flooring, entire wall of windows, and two openings that go into the kitchen and dinning area. I was somewhat concerned that I'd hear great detail in a sound proof demo room only to find that it was lost in my acoustical nightmare . In the end, we're excited about the purchase and the speakers definitely add detail we never heard before. 

Interestingly enough, the towers made our tiny 42 inch TV look even smaller . I was delighted to hear my wife say "we need a bigger TV." To which I replied "whatever you want, babe." So now we have a 55 inch TV.

One thing we've discussed is the possibility of relocating the Sub to free up some wall space. Any thoughts on having the sub located closer to the seating area (e.g. where the couches intersect) using some type of wireless setup?


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Near field placement of a sub has worked well for many people, I would say try it and see what you think.


----------



## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

vrenfroe said:


> First, thanks so much for the feedback. In the end, I decided to go with the Chane A3s. I wanted to give them some time to break in before I posted, but even on day 1 the wife and I were really impressed coming from the Kplish book shelf speakers I had.
> 
> To be honest, my main reason for going with Chane was because I'm a sucker for "direct to consumer." I didn't read a single negative thing about the speakers and the price point made is such that I could include a center and stay under 1k, which was another attractive piece of the deal. If I had a knock it would be that shipping for returns isn't covered. Although I don't want to return them, I was very apprehensive about buying something that could possibly cost me a couple hundred in shipping (total) if I didn't like them.
> 
> ...


Free return shipping is very rare so I wouldn't consider that a knock on any company that doesn't offer it. I wonder if that's even going to stay around for long at the few companies who actually do it. From comments I see on several forums a lot of people are now using it to test drive multiple subwoofers simultaneously, something they wouldn't have done previously but they figure why not it's someone elses dime. I think that's terrible because they're basically abusing the intent of that policy, and to be honest it's not free. The people who actually buy something from one of those companies will end up paying for the shipping charges generated by all those window shoppers. Obviously the company is going to pass those costs on to everyone else, they certainly aren't going to eat them. You might start seeing price increases because of that.

The Chane speakers only lack one thing in my opinion; looks. From a SQ perspective they are a phenomenal product for the selling price, but it's the aesthetics where they could use some help. Visual appearance is a personal thing though, so my opinion is just that; an opinion. Glad they helped you get a bigger TV! Now that's an understanding wife if there ever was one.

No one can predict the outcome of moving your sub, so we can't really answer that question I'm afraid. Each room and situation is different with it's own challenges to contend with. Ideally you would need to experiment in order to locate the best spot for it, but from a practical standpoint that's often not possible. About all you can do is try it and see what happens


----------



## vrenfroe (Oct 28, 2014)

theJman said:


> Free return shipping is very rare so I wouldn't consider that a knock on any company that doesn't offer it. I wonder if that's even going to stay around for long at the few companies who actually do it. From comments I see on several forums a lot of people are now using it to test drive multiple subwoofers simultaneously, something they wouldn't have done previously but they figure why not it's someone elses dime. I think that's terrible because they're basically abusing the intent of that policy, and to be honest it's not free. The people who actually buy something from one of those companies will end up paying for the shipping charges generated by all those window shoppers. Obviously the company is going to pass those costs on to everyone else, they certainly aren't going to eat them. You might start seeing price increases because of that.
> 
> The Chane speakers only lack one thing in my opinion; looks. From a SQ perspective they are a phenomenal product for the selling price, but it's the aesthetics where they could use some help. Visual appearance is a personal thing though, so my opinion is just that; an opinion. Glad they helped you get a bigger TV! Now that's an understanding wife if there ever was one.
> 
> No one can predict the outcome of moving your sub, so we can't really answer that question I'm afraid. Each room and situation is different with it's own challenges to contend with. Ideally you would need to experiment in order to locate the best spot for it, but from a practical standpoint that's often not possible. About all you can do is try it and see what happens


Great point about my "knock" comment. It's a bummer that people take advantage of it as you mentioned.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I am glad you are pleased with all of your new toys, the TV is a nice bonus on top of new speakers.


----------

