# Denon AVR-4520CI Receiver Review Discussion Thread



## Sonnie

*Denon 4520 Receiver Review Discussion Thread*










With a plethora of features and sufficient power to drive some of the most demanding speakers, as well as the ability to process a 5.2 system with the main speakers bi-amped and still have two channels remaining for a separate two-channel setup, the Denon 4520 is poised to be a favorite among enthusiasts. If you are looking for an all-in-one unit with a good power amp design versus a processor plus separate power amps, or maybe limited on space to accomplish the same, the 4520 is definitely worth consideration… and highly recommended in my conclusion. 

*Read the Full Review: Denon AVR-4520CI Receiver Review
*

You may also want to view the *Denon AVR-4520CI Official Owners, Discussion and Information Thread*


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## ericzim

Well, between this review and the official owners thread I am definately upgrading to the 4520. Thank you for the great review of the Denon.


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## snowmanick

Very good review. The fact that the 4520 can drive your ML's so well that you sold some monster mono blocks is really interesting. 

I also really enjoyed the 1 vs 8 positions graphs at the various seats to be enlightening. I haven't seen that done by anyone before and it brings up a few questions for me to look at in my own system. Thanks for being so thorough and sharing the results.


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## Sonnie

Thanks guys!

We will be getting into more detail with a couple of different room comparisons on the 1 vs 8 in our very detailed Audyssey Information thread that we are preparing now.


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## AudiocRaver

Terrific review, Sonnie. Thanks for all the great detail.


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## PhxHT

Hello Sonnie,

Very nice and thorough review! Your review of UMC-1 was what drew me to the Shack, by the way. I did not buy the UMC-1. 
Your reviews are easier to digest than others I have read on traditional publications, in a good way. I was wondering why you sold your Emotiva amps, when I saw your ads. Well, now I understand. 
Do you think you'll review Anthem's receivers in the near future? MRX-700? It would be interesting to compare Anthem's highly regarded ARC Vs the Audissey room correction. I hope you'll add this to your to do list.

Thanks for the review.


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## leej

Impressive! Both the review and the 4520.
Thanks.


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## Sonnie

Thanks again guys... I appreciate the kind words.

@PhxHT... I was talking to a guy, Chris at Cohen Electronics, just the other day and he mentioned the Anthem receiver. I actually owned an Anthem processor and amp several years back... the AVM-50 and MCA-50. I never wrote any reviews on them, but it would be nice to maybe get a hold of one of their receivers and give it s spin in my system... perhaps the MRX 700.


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## cavchameleon

Great review Sonnie! I have the A100 (same as the 4311) and you are making my upgrade bug kick in:rolleyesno: I'll have to think long and hard if I will really benefit from the upgrade or if I need to sit it out until the 'newer' version next year. I'm really surprised that it can actually power your ML, they usually need good amplification that AVR's can't provide.

Thanks for the review!!!


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## PhxHT

Sonnie,

Great! Looking forward to your review.

Thanks.


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## Jason_Nolan

Nice review. I'm still happy with the 4311 and couldn't justify the upgrade, but the GUI on the 4520 looks good. I'll wait until the next breakthrough in DAC's, and/or Audyssey before upgrading again.


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## selden

I have a very minor quibble with the review (not with the receiver!).


> Then again, if you do not have a computer you probably will not be reading this review.


 Quite a few people access the Internet using computers provided in public libraries. Of course, while they can read the review, they also are people who probably could not justify the expense of such a receiver.


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## Sonnie

Good point... maybe I should change it to, "Then again, if you do not have a computer, there is a possibility that you will not be reading this review."


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## yoda13

Personally, I think all reviews should be done this way. No marketing , no fluffy words, just straight to the point info. 

Excellent!

Also, you have help me make my mind that the 4311 is still a relevant receiver today.

cheers


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## Savjac

Interesting, thank you for putting your thoughts to...computer. This is an exciting read in that I have been using a Denon receiver as a processor for many years, tried and Onkyo for a short while and put the Denon back in. I cannot say I heard a big difference so I think for me it came down to familiarity and ease of use. I have played Denon many for a long long time, like an old shoe, it must just feel comfortable. I have been looking to renew the 4 year old receiver with the newer models but the less expensive models in my range do not have 7.1 in and that for me is a deal breaker. This one seems a bit more than I wanted to spend but I like your thoughts on its ability to drive the speakers un aided by bigger amps....that speaks to me in a big way, talking about cleaning shelf space.

Thanks Again it appears I may have found a new center for my system.


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## Sonnie

Thanks guys... appreciate the kind words.


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## Sevenfeet

One thing I'm curious about would be to how the 4520 rates in the value department compared to its more expensive big brother, the Marantz AV8801 separates and the matching amps they sell. Right now it's an expensive high end receiver, but compared to the AV8801, it may deliver 95% of the sonic performance for a lot less.

Just a thought.


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## Sonnie

I don't _think_ I would think twice about the 4520 over the 8801 plus amps, although it is a very nice looking setup. I am not sure what the 8801 could offer over the 4520 that would nearly begin to justify the extra cost of the unit, much less having to buy separate amps. I obviously have no way to know for sure without hearing and testing, but my best guess would be that I highly doubt there would be any significant difference in sound quality, yet they make them to be bought.


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## phillihp23

Like the 4520 so far. The Sub EQ setup is nice. It shows an onscreen volume meter dbs. and has you level the two subs before it will allow you to EQ them. Nice function. Still confused though as it shows in the menu that they are +11 and I thought that they should be -5 to +5. Could placement of the SUBS be the issue?

Love having both my Denon AVR's networked. Using my tablet or laptop to control them in or out of room.

I did notice the top of the receiver gets warmer than my 2112 used too. But, I increased the air space above the 4520, hopefully compensates.


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## Sonnie

Were your readings right at 75dB when leveling each sub?

I think mine always end up from -1 to +1. I noticed if I leveled them around 70-72dB that the sub levels would be in the mid + range.


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## phillihp23

Im gonna do a white noise test with a independant meter tonight to get them both at 75 db. Then rerun audyssey. Hopefully that will be a little more accurate. I know the sub EQ meter kept bouncing when i was trying to do it that way.


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## Sonnie

Yeah... it is somewhat finicky. I evened out my sub response with my parametric EQ (took the major peaks out) and then leveled my subs to 75dB with my mic and REW. Then when I go through Audyssey it doesn't even ask me to level my subs, it checks them and skips to the next step.


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## AustinJerry

Sonnie,

I enjoyed reading your review. I have owned the 4520 since the first month of its release, and have nothing but a positive experience so far. I replaced a 4311, which is now powering the system in the master bedroom.

Two features that I think are worth pointing out are the network configuration save capability, and that the 4520 supports the Audyssey Pro kit.

Anyone who currently has an AVR brand other than Denon should be aware of the value of being able to save different configurations. If you are actively involved in measuring the audio performance of your home theater or listening room, and are experimenting with speaker locations, room treatments, etc., being able to save different configurations for comparison is extremely valuable. As far as I know, Denon is the only AVR manufacturer that offers this capability.

And for those who value Audyssey technology, being able to use the Pro kit adds a level of fine-tuning to an already excellent room correction system.


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## Sonnie

Hi Jerry...

Thank you. 

I was not aware of the configuration save capability, I missed that part... and that is good to know.

I am aware of the it's ability to use the Audyssey Pro Kit and mentioned that I did not use it. I suppose I should state that it is available, but I did not use it. I will correct that part. At the time I did not want to spend the $150 to get it licensed until I knew for sure I wanted to keep it. I could now, but the response sounds pretty good, so I figured I would leave it be for now. XT32 is pretty good.


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## AustinJerry

I should have mentioned that the configuration load/save functionality is accessed through the AVR's web interface, in case anyone has trouble finding it.


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## 8086

With 150wpc, what is the power consumption from the wall sockets on the Denon 4520?


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## tkroeker

8086 - If you had all nine amplifiers hooked up and had the volume cranked, the 4520 could draw 9 to 9.5 amps. As far as I know, As most movies rarely have all channels driven for any amount of time you would probably draw considerably less. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!


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## 8086

tkroeker said:


> 8086 - If you had all nine amplifiers hooked up and had the volume cranked, the 4520 could draw 9 to 9.5 amps. As far as I know, As most movies rarely have all channels driven for any amount of time you would probably draw considerably less. Someone correct me if I'm wrong!


You are correct. They rarely run at full power, its more like short peak bursts. I keep a watts-up pro connected to my amp which allows me to monitor and log power usage, both in on and standby modes. 

If it's a Class A/B amplifier, its about 50-65% efficient. If the amp was rated at 100 watts (mono). it would draw more than 200w from the outlet at full power. Other factors include power supply efficiency, which can range from roughly 40-85%. If all 9 channels were driven at 100% efficiency, thats only 1350 watts or (11.25 amps). It would be nice to know how much the AVR-4520CI uses so you can know if you need an electrician or not to expand power to your theater with all the other devices plugged in.


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## NBPk402

I liked what I read in your review and broke out the CC... Mine should be here next week.


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## Sonnie

I need to see if I can get a commission from Denon huh?


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## Savjac

Now that you have had your system minus the big amps for a short while, do you still feel the Denon can handle your equipment in that nice room ? Have you found any longings for the big boxes ?
I am still on the edge here, I fought so hard to the big Emo's and now I have an opportunity to streamline the cabinet, it just seems to go against my wisdom. I am actually afraid to plug my speakers directly into the Denon cause I may feel somewhat foolish after all these years to be honest.


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## Sonnie

I don't think there is anything wrong with having Emo's in your setup. You certainly won't have to worry about any deficiencies when using them. I wish I had a better way to display them than what I did, but I never liked their location and the fact they were not in my cabinet. I think it all depends on your situation and your own desires. I personally have no regrets using the Denon and have yet to find any faults during use. I am about to review a Yamaha A3020 as well, and forward to seeing how it will perform.


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## Savjac

I think you have answered the question quite well Sonnie. I have been wanting to downsize a bit as I get older and my wife does not know what is what any longer. But I have kept the big amps in there "Feeling" I would loose some dynamics that I had put there in there to handle. Like you I am only running 5 channels so I will empower myself to unhook the big ones and play the Denon alone this weekend. What I meant about some embarrassment is that I put the big dudes in going back to Rotel separates and never removed them, again thinking I would loose performance. I may now have to eat crow and realize I could have saved some money and electricity over the years because of a possible mis belief. :doh:


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## Sonnie

Some times it is simply how we perceive things. Even though they are nice cars and have changed dramatically over the years, my wife refuses to own a Buick because she has always related it to being something grandparents drive, yet she is old enough to be a grandparent herself. There is something to be said about being comfortable with what you own. If owning separates gave me peace of mind, I would probably have them in my system.


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## Savjac

Well that is an excellent point, piece of mind which may be the reason for many of our decisions over the years. In this case I think I am just being closed minded and stubborn :whistling: This may not be the place to discuss but as I get older I feel the need to prove myself is less and less. It almost killed me to let my Tundra go and get the Camry, how can I look out at everyone laughing at me ?
Well it is all really nothing we now know.
Having recently moved to a new neighborhood there is really not many folks here that wish to even discuss home theater let along sit down long enough to enjoy it. No more sharing I guess.


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## kingpin748

Anyone know what the power rating per channel is when you have 7.1 hooked up? The manual says is 150 per channel in a 2 channel setup. I'm under the impression the "per channel" drops when you add more channels?


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## Savjac

Some receivers do loose power once one gets past 2 channels. Many Denon receivers do not however, i have not see a powering all channels test on this model. I would really expect that the power would go down with 9 channels and maybe even 7.


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## Sancho Panza

nice review, thanks...

on the 1 Vs. 8, wonder is 8 (or 32) from essentially the same position, with very small variances for wiggles in the same position, would do any good?


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## tonyvdb

kingpin748 said:


> Anyone know what the power rating per channel is when you have 7.1 hooked up? The manual says is 150 per channel in a 2 channel setup. I'm under the impression the "per channel" drops when you add more channels?


I have scowered the net and it seems no one has done actual bench tests yet on the 4520. Given the weight at 39lbs I would suspect that if it uses the typical A/B switching amps that the output would drop a fair bit over 7 and 9 channels. If it uses class D amps than it could do much better.


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## Sonnie

They claim full output all channels, but I not be surprised to see it drop with all channels driven.



Sancho Panza said:


> nice review, thanks...
> 
> on the 1 Vs. 8, wonder is 8 (or 32) from essentially the same position, with very small variances for wiggles in the same position, would do any good?


I have read of those who will change up the position. If measuring the main listening position only, I think it makes sense to move the microphone a few inches each time. I have not measured the effect of moving vs. not moving, but maybe I should, just to see the effects and we can add that to our extremely detailed Audyssey guide we are preparing.


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## NBPk402

Interesting that when I pulled my 3806 out it appears to be heavier than the 4520.


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## NBPk402

I talked to Denon Tech Support and they said it has to be a cable problem... Maybe a HDMI amplifier would solve the problem. I decided to give it a try and headed over to Frys to pick up a 16' HDMI cable. Well guess what I plugged in the new HDMI cable and all is well now! So since I was on a roll I also tried a new cable for my PS3 and it also works fine. I guess over the last year my HDMI cable must have been right on the edge of completing handshakes. The Denon Tech said the 4520 requires at least a 1.4 HDMI cable and that since my Epson 1080 was old it might be a 1.2 or so, which could also be causing the problem. It sure is nice to be able to watch my cable box and PS3 straight through with HDMI and not component!


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## Sancho Panza

wonder iF all 2012 models require 1.4 HDMI??


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## tonyvdb

Sancho Panza said:


> wonder iF all 2012 models require 1.4 HDMI??


Truth be told there is not any difference between a so called "normal" HDMI cable and one that is rated for 1.4. Its mostly about the build quality of the cable and nothing more. That does not mean that an expensive cable from Monster is any better than one from Monoprice, the only difference is the price


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## Sancho Panza

that's what I thought; ordered 3 STANDARD speed hdmi from Mono by accident; use 'em for cable tv, just in case...


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## NBPk402

tonyvdb said:


> Truth be told there is not any difference between a so called "normal" HDMI cable and one that is rated for 1.4. Its mostly about the build quality of the cable and nothing more. That does not mean that an expensive cable from Monster is any better than one from Monoprice, the only difference is the price


Monster who...

I am ordering some new HDMI cables from Monoprice... Any reason to buy the Redmere?


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## NBPk402

ellisr63 said:


> I talked to Denon Tech Support and they said it has to be a cable problem... Maybe a HDMI amplifier would solve the problem. I decided to give it a try and headed over to Frys to pick up a 16' HDMI cable. Well guess what I plugged in the new HDMI cable and all is well now! So since I was on a roll I also tried a new cable for my PS3 and it also works fine. I guess over the last year my HDMI cable must have been right on the edge of completing handshakes. The Denon Tech said the 4520 requires at least a 1.4 HDMI cable and that since my Epson 1080 was old it might be a 1.2 or so, which could also be causing the problem. It sure is nice to be able to watch my cable box and PS3 straight through with HDMI and not component!


My problem came back with my Epson so I am going to try some new Monoprice cables and if that doesn't solve it I will just take the HDMI monitor out cable and plug it into my HTPC whenever I want ot use the PC... A small inconvenience until I can afford a new projector. My run to the PC from the Epson is 15' (up and around a doorway).


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## tonyvdb

ellisr63 said:


> Monster who...
> 
> I am ordering some new HDMI cables from Monoprice... Any reason to buy the Redmere?


I have no real experience with using them so I cant comment but I hear some people have had good success with them. I run a 35' regular HDMI cable and have no issues.


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## phillihp23

I also run a 35 foot hdmi 1.4 cable from my Receiver out to my projector. No problems here.


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## kingpin748

ellisr63 said:


> Monster who...
> 
> I am ordering some new HDMI cables from Monoprice... Any reason to buy the Redmere?





ellisr63 said:


> My problem came back with my Epson so I am going to try some new Monoprice cables and if that doesn't solve it I will just take the HDMI monitor out cable and plug it into my HTPC whenever I want ot use the PC... A small inconvenience until I can afford a new projector. My run to the PC from the Epson is 15' (up and around a doorway).


I've been buying Monoprice for about 3 years now. My most recent HDMI cables for the new house and new setup were:

30ft 22AWG CL2 Standard HDMI® Cable - For the run from the AV shelf to the projector through the ceiling.

3ft 28AWG High Speed HDMI® Cable With Ethernet - Between the components on the AV Shelf.

They both worked fine but the 22AWG are really stiff. Where they come out of the ceiling and do a 90 to plug into the projector is very tight on my 6020 because it’s got that back cover but I didn't want to spend the money on the thinner more pliable ones.

The 3' ones are perfect. No complaints, glad I bought those over the standard ones but they both do the same job.


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## NBPk402

I just ordered...
(1) 15ft Slim Series High Speed HDMI® Cable w/ RedMere® Technology
(4) 6ft Slim Series High Speed HDMI® Cable w/ RedMere® Technology

I am having them overnighted... Couldn't resist for $5.85 shipping


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## kingpin748

The SBS-02s showed up on Friday and I wasted no time putting them up. They came well boxed and were bigger than I expected. 










Unfortunately right out of the box I had to do some surgery. While up on my ladder mounting the front heights the binding post keep turning and I couldn’t figure out what was wrong. Turns out the little nut on the inside was loose so I had to open it up to fix it.










I’ve got them mounted flush right now since my mounts didn’t arrive. I grabbed some Omnimount 20s so that I can aim the surrounds at the listening positions better.

Once I got everything mounted I ran Audyssey and listen to some music and watched a few shows. I was very happy with the sound out of the SBS-02s, they seem to blend in nice with everything else I have. I’m pretty sure the Denon 4520 helps with that. Here is what it set.










Here is how everything looks now. The wires will be cleaned up later and speakers will be aimed down more.










I'm very impressed with this amp. The sound is great and it's been very easy to setup. I'm not sure what else you would be looking for in an amp besides a different sound. I did turn it up on some movies and music to 3db or 4db and it sounded fantastic. I actually had to remind tell myself to turn it down since I seemed to be getting use to it. Usually with family home or guests over we are using it at -18db or maybe -10db for a action movie.


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## 8086

Their mounting position reminds me of Yahama's recommended "Front Effect Speakers". I see you have a Denon, why are the bookshelf speakers mounted up front above the mains?


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## Sonnie

It's what I had many years ago... front high and wide in the corners. Yamaha had it figured out and it sounded so much better than just two speakers. It does not surprise me to see it coming back in the newer receivers, especially now since they have much better DSP's to work with.


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## kingpin748

8086 said:


> Their mounting position reminds me of Yahama's recommended "Front Effect Speakers". I see you have a Denon, why are the bookshelf speakers mounted up front above the mains?


The 4520 has an option for front height or front wide channels in addition to your standard 7.1 using new processing technology. Since its got 9 amps in it I felt like trying it out. I feel like it raises the soundstage although the voices are still coming from lower center. Now all we need is some actual discrete 9.1 movies to justify it. Still, I like it, I had fun doing it, the speakers only cost me $150 and most people are suitable impressed with 5 speakers up front. Lets face it, 90% of the population has no idea what's going on your AV rack.


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## 8086

kingpin748 said:


> The 4520 has an option for front height or front wide channels in addition to your standard 7.1 using new processing technology. Since its got 9 amps in it I felt like trying it out. I feel like it raises the soundstage although the voices are still coming from lower center. Now all we need is some actual discrete 9.1 movies to justify it. Still, I like it, I had fun doing it, the speakers only cost me $150 and most people are suitable impressed with 5 speakers up front. Lets face it, 90% of the population has no idea what's going on your AV rack.




You need a top center speaker, Bi-wire two 8ohm centers (w/banana plugs) in Parallel for a 4ohm load. 

All of those speakers you have remind me of that prototype format they were testing with NHK in japan which involved something like 40 speakers for surround, both high and low off the ground. I don't remember what they were calling it. And no its not Dolby Atmos.


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## phillihp23

Eventually I am going to add front height to my room, I already added front wide towers and it very noticeably filled in the front stage nicely, wrapping it around to the sides. When I add front heights what speakers should I amp, as the 4520 can do 9.2 but a amp is needed if going 11.2. And what amp should I get?


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## 8086

You could just run two 8ohm speakers off the same mono amp channel, your receiver should be able to handle a 4Ω speaker load.

OR

Use the receiver in combination with an Emotiva XPA3 connected to the pre-outs or a dedicated Denon amp to match the sound signature of your receiver.







> Common Connection options:
> 
> 
> 5.1 Main Zone all channels bi-amplified
> 5.1 Main Zone all channels bridged for up to 4x power to each channel
> 5.1 Main Zone, Zone 2 and Zone 3 stereo, with Zone 4 mono
> 7.1 Main Zone, Zone 2 stereo and Zone 3 mono
> *[*]7.1 Main Zone with Front left, right and center speakers bi-amplified*
> 7.1 Main Zone with Front speakers bridged and Zone 2 mono
> 9.1 Main Zone and Zone 2 Mono
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/amplifiers/denon-poa-a1hdci/pao-a1hdci-setup


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## NBPk402

I just picked up a pair of DSM tf700 speakers for $50... I am going to use them for height speakers above my Paradigm 80s. I know they should be floor mounted but the price was right and they are very shallow speakers. I will see how they work out.


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## kingpin748

8086 said:


> You need a top center speaker, Bi-wire two 8ohm centers (w/banana plugs) in Parallel for a 4ohm load.



I read somewhere that you should do front wide first, that it makes the biggest difference but my space just wouldn't allow it. The wides would be right in the middle of the room just waiting for my kids to knock over. 

What would be great is a pair of Paradigm Studio 100s with a CC-690 for the FL, FR, and CC, then move the Monitor 9s to the FWL and FWR. Since I'm dreaming I could pick up that Emotiva XPA3 and use it to run the Studios and put my tiny CC-190 as a front height center running in parallel with the CC-690. 

I wonder how that would sound running the same channel into 2 CC at the top and bottom of the screen... Would they blend well or would it be a mess. Considering how different the two centres are it might be a gong show. I wonder what Audyssey would do with that setup? Probably explode.



8086 said:


> You could just run two 8ohm speakers off the same mono amp channel, your receiver should be able to handle a 4Ω speaker load.
> 
> OR
> 
> Use the receiver in combination with an Emotiva XPA3 connected to the pre-outs or a dedicated Denon amp to match the sound signature of your receiver.


That Denon amp is work of art. Love the retro mechanical gauges. I wonder if it's any good? It weighs 135lbs! I wonder how much my kidney is worth? I need those Studio 100s and that amp.

Found this guys setup:


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## 8086

kingpin748 said:


> I read somewhere that you should do front wide first, that it makes the biggest difference but my space just wouldn't allow it. The wides would be right in the middle of the room just waiting for my kids to knock over.
> 
> What would be great is a pair of Paradigm Studio 100s with a CC-690 for the FL, FR, and CC, then move the Monitor 9s to the FWL and FWR. Since I'm dreaming I could pick up that Emotiva XPA3 and use it to run the Studios and put my tiny CC-190 as a front height center running in parallel with the CC-690.
> 
> I wonder how that would sound running the same channel into 2 CC at the top and bottom of the screen... Would they blend well or would it be a mess. Considering how different the two centres are it might be a gong show. I wonder what Audyssey would do with that setup? Probably explode.
> 
> 
> 
> That Denon amp is work of art. Love the retro mechanical gauges. I wonder if it's any good? It weighs 135lbs! I wonder how much my kidney is worth? I need those Studio 100s and that amp.


Word on the street is that is a worthy contender for its price class and it would be best paired with Signature S8 .


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## NBPk402

kingpin748 said:


> I read somewhere that you should do front wide first, that it makes the biggest difference but my space just wouldn't allow it. The wides would be right in the middle of the room just waiting for my kids to knock over.
> 
> What would be great is a pair of Paradigm Studio 100s with a CC-690 for the FL, FR, and CC, then move the Monitor 9s to the FWL and FWR. Since I'm dreaming I could pick up that Emotiva XPA3 and use it to run the Studios and put my tiny CC-190 as a front height center running in parallel with the CC-690.
> 
> I wonder how that would sound running the same channel into 2 CC at the top and bottom of the screen... Would they blend well or would it be a mess. Considering how different the two centres are it might be a gong show. I wonder what Audyssey would do with that setup? Probably explode.
> 
> 
> 
> That Denon amp is work of art. Love the retro mechanical gauges. I wonder if it's any good? It weighs 135lbs! I wonder how much my kidney is worth? I need those Studio 100s and that amp.
> 
> Found this guys setup:


I ran 2 center speakers years ago (one above and one below the screen) and I loved the way it sounded... Of course they were identical centers though.


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## kingpin748

Someone tell me this is a bad idea. I could get another CC-190 for pretty cheap. If I dropped the screen down a few inches the 2nd CC would probably fit above it and I wouldn't even have to run a new wire to the amp, just one behind the screen. Would it mess with the amp running 4ohms for the CC and 8ohms everywhere else? I'm trying to think about why this wouldn't work or sound bad but I'm not coming up with anything. Then again I don't really know that much to begin with.


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## NBPk402

kingpin748 said:


> Someone tell me this is a bad idea. I could get another CC-190 for pretty cheap. If I dropped the screen down a few inches the 2nd CC would probably fit above it and I wouldn't even have to run a new wire to the amp, just one behind the screen. Would it mess with the amp running 4ohms for the CC and 8ohms everywhere else? I'm trying to think about why this wouldn't work or sound bad but I'm not coming up with anything. Then again I don't really know that much to begin with.


I never had a problem when I did it in the past... When you are playing music across all your speakers the impedance varies by the load and frequency afaik. Since the 4520 will handle a 4 ohm load you should be ok.


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## NBPk402

Question:

I have a WDTV arriving today and was wondering... Do I hook it up to the Media Server input? I was looking at the manual and it didn't say it was compatible with mkv files. The WDTV is compatible with mkv files... Will this effect the Media Server input? Since I have not used it I was thinking maybe there is something special about the Media Server input compared to the other inputs... ie maybe it displays a menu or something.


I also moved from 5.1 to 7.1 yesterday.  I decided to take the Paradigm rear speakers and move them up to the side surrounds and take my DCM tf700 speakers (best $50 I have spent in a long time) and put them in the rear corners of the room. All I can say is I have never heard it sound so good! I am going to take some outdoor speakers that I have laying around and make them my height channels until I can afford some Studio 20s for the heights and width channels.


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## tonyvdb

No, just connect it using the HDMI output. The WDTV has its own built in menu. I have two of these running in my house and they work great.


----------



## tonyvdb

ellisr63 said:


> ......my DCM tf700 speakers (best $50 I have spent in a long time) and put them in the rear corners of the room. All I can say is I have never heard it sound so good!


Ideally you want those to be placed about 4ft apart on the rear wall not in the corners.


----------



## NBPk402

tonyvdb said:


> Ideally you want those to be placed about 4ft apart on the rear wall not in the corners.


I know but it is in our living room and our seating is against the walls... When I get to building the theater in the garage I will have more room and will do the placement correctly. Currently they are in the location my Dipoles were in. It sounds awesome. I don't know what part of the changes did it but I def like the sound.


----------



## NBPk402

tonyvdb said:


> No, just connect it using the HDMI output. The WDTV has its own built in menu. I have two of these running in my house and they work great.


Thanks, I have heard nothing but good about them... I can't wait to get them installed. Is the Media Server input a special one or is it the same as all the other HDMI inputs?


----------



## tonyvdb

ellisr63 said:


> Thanks, I have heard nothing but good about them... I can't wait to get them installed. Is the Media Server input a special one or is it the same as all the other HDMI inputs?


If your asking the input on the WDTV unit? its either Wi-Fi network connection or cat5e to the PC or you can just connect a 1 or 2 TB USB hard drive to it with all the media you have on it.


----------



## NBPk402

tonyvdb said:


> If your asking the input on the WDTV unit? its either Wi-Fi network connection or cat5e to the PC or you can just connect a 1 or 2 TB USB hard drive to it with all the media you have on it.


No, I meant the input labeled Media Server on the 4520... Is it just a standard HDMI input? In the manual it lists what can be played on it.

I will have to go checkout some cases that I can hookup my SATA 4TB hard drive to that are USB.


----------



## tonyvdb

I dont think so, Its more designed to plug a hard drive directly to it.


----------



## kingpin748

ellisr63 said:


> Thanks, I have heard nothing but good about them... I can't wait to get them installed. Is the Media Server input a special one or is it the same as all the other HDMI inputs?





ellisr63 said:


> No, I meant the input labeled Media Server on the 4520... Is it just a standard HDMI input? In the manual it lists what can be played on it.
> 
> I will have to go checkout some cases that I can hookup my SATA 4TB hard drive to that are USB.


Its the same as the other ones. Not sure why the bother labeling them anymore as you can just rename in the settings. Should just leave them as "1", "2", etc...

You've got the right idea with the USB enclosure as many people do that. Your other option is to go wireless or use a LAN cable and stream right from your computer to the WDTV to the Denon.

The Denon by itself will not play .mkv as far as I can tell from the manual. If you're looking to hook up that drive to the Denon you'll only be able to play what's listed on page 47 of the manual. If you hook the drive up to the WDTV you can play basically anything with a GUI that is far superior to what the Denon has.

So USB Drive to the WDTV then HDMI to Denon. Then you get to play around with the WDTV and set it up but that's well covered in other threads and forums.


----------



## NBPk402

Does anyone know of a Demo for 9.1 audio? It would be nice to have a demo video that shows what 9.1 is capable of.


----------



## tonyvdb

There is no "true" discreet 9.1 audio mix available. What happens is the receiver will matrix the extra 2 channels basically making an educated guess as to what should be sent to those two channels.


----------



## phillihp23

I love my 9.2 and can't wait to add for 11.2
Once you have it its hard to do without.


----------



## kingpin748

ellisr63 said:


> Does anyone know of a Demo for 9.1 audio? It would be nice to have a demo video that shows what 9.1 is capable of.


The best you can get is something like The Expendables 2 which apparently has been "optimized" for 11.1 audio, whatever that means.... As far as I know there isn't even an agreed upon format for delivering more than discrete 7.1 audio right now.


----------



## NBPk402

kingpin748 said:


> The best you can get is something like The Expendables 2 which apparently has been "optimized" for 11.1 audio, whatever that means.... As far as I know there isn't even an agreed upon format for delivering more than discrete 7.1 audio right now.


What a shame that there are no demo discs to show off all the channels.


----------



## nezff

hey guys. long time no talk. Im in the market for a Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801. Im wondering what you guys opinions are. Im seeing some issues with reliability on the 4520 over at the AVS forums. Just wondering if any of you guys have had repairs or returns etc..

thanks


----------



## AustinJerry

nezff said:


> hey guys. long time no talk. Im in the market for a Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801. Im wondering what you guys opinions are. Im seeing some issues with reliability on the 4520 over at the AVS forums. Just wondering if any of you guys have had repairs or returns etc..
> 
> thanks


I have the 4520, and it is rock solid. I am also a frequent participant in the AVS 4520 thread. There are some recent complaints, but keep in mind that happy users don't usually post their happiness. Also note that several of the posters reporting issues purchased refurb units.

AFAIK, you currently own the 8801, and previously owned the 4520. You even stated that you heard no sonic difference between the two. What is the purpose of your post?


----------



## AustinJerry

ellisr63 said:


> What a shame that there are no demo discs to show off all the channels.


Actually, there are three official titles recorded in NEO:x 11.1: 'Step Up Revolution', 'Expendables 2', or 'Dredd'. (Great movies, no?)

Note that the rental versions only have 5.1 sound.


----------



## nezff

JerryMeeker said:


> I have the 4520, and it is rock solid. I am also a frequent participant in the AVS 4520 thread. There are some recent complaints, but keep in mind that happy users don't usually post their happiness. Also note that several of the posters reporting issues purchased refurb units.
> 
> AFAIK, you currently own the 8801, and previously owned the 4520. You even stated that you heard no sonic difference between the two. What is the purpose of your post?


I had to return my denon to vanns because of a blinking red light issue. I thought I would try my hand at the 8801 since audioholics gave me a deal on it. 

And now the PURPOSE of my post is exactly what I stated and asked.


----------



## kingpin748

JerryMeeker said:


> Actually, there are three official titles recorded in NEO:x 11.1: 'Step Up Revolution', 'Expendables 2', or 'Dredd'. (Great movies, no?)
> 
> Note that the rental versions only have 5.1 sound.


Those movies, as far as I know, don't actually have a discrete 11.1 sound track. They have been optimized for Neo X to make the best use of the existing 7.1 tack that's actually on the BD. What exactly "optimized" means I don't know but I did grab Expendables 2 and Dredd for just that reason.



nezff said:


> I had to return my denon to vanns because of a blinking red light issue. I thought I would try my hand at the 8801 since audioholics gave me a deal on it.
> 
> And now the PURPOSE of my post is exactly what I stated and asked.


I think he is referring to how you're asking the question. You've returned the 4520 and already have a 8801 which doesnt seem like what your questions implies. It might seem like you're looking for more info on failing Denons, that you have an agenda of some sort. But then again I'm just reading what you guys wrote so I certainly don't know what's going on.

I've had my 4520 for over a month now and despite some decent abuse I haven't been able to destroy it. Rest assured I'll continue to try. I wish I could have gotten a 8801...


----------



## nezff

I'm trying to make a decision on one or the other. I'm debating on selling or returning the marantz and getting the denon again. Reason being that I don't hear the difference so to speak in price. My only reasoning for not possibly wanting the denon was due to the issues if you call them that with this unit.


----------



## nezff

kingpin748 said:


> I wish I could have gotten a 8801...


Why didn't you


----------



## kingpin748

nezff said:


> Why didn't you


Couple of reasons. First was the money. I was already over budget on the 4520 since I spent double what I'd budgeted. The other reason is that I just don't need that for my system. I feel like dropping that much coin on the preamp and then having to buy an amp would have been silly. My room isn't really setup to take advantage of what the 8801 offers, it just wouldn't make sense. Maybe one day when I have a more dedicated room I'll invest but until then I'll just admire it from afar.


----------



## Rick R

Thanks for your welcome PM, pleased to see the rules are so strict

Just bought one of these partially based on your excellent review just waiting for the courier now, going to partner an Oppo 95 and is replacing a fairly high end Pioneer getting a little long in the tooth although it will stay in the den.

Can't wait to get my hands on this machine :bigsmile:


----------



## Sonnie

Congratulations Rick and welcome to the Shack!

You are going to really like the 4520... a very nice receiver, as is the OPPO 95. :T


----------



## ALMFamily

Sonnie said:


> Congratulations Rick and welcome to the Shack!
> 
> You are going to really like the 4520... a very nice receiver, as is the OPPO 95. :T


Another welcome - and congratulations! My 4520 has been perfect for my HT and I am certain you will love it. As Sonnie said, coupled with the OPPO, that is going to be a great setup!


----------



## Rick R

ALMFamily said:


> Another welcome - and congratulations! My 4520 has been perfect for my HT and I am certain you will love it. As Sonnie said, coupled with the OPPO, that is going to be a great setup!


Thank you and Sonnie for the welcomes, just getting used to finding my way around this forum (although been contributing on the AVR forums for a while)

So the beast arrived, took ages to install, had to take out the Pio and then re route all the cables to keep separation between mains, speaker and signal cables in a rack mounted on spikes so I can't move it, took quite a while till I was satisfied. Did a quick single point calibration and then tried out some music and a movie. All was OK but it did not seem much better than the Pio but it had not really a decent chance to warm through. Today left it on for 4hrs and then did a full multi-point calibration (should have said 3 point, central and two main chairs) and check with SPL meter all spot on except I thought the sub was a bit low. Then a test with the Oppo on CD analogue and bitstream. Wow got some hairs standing up on the back of my neck, same thing I had first hearing the Oppo 95 analogue, being an lddude: surprised my hearing is that good. Ran briefly a movie with DTS MA 7.1 very impressed, now looking forward to settling down with a good movie something to stretch it a bit, maybe Inception although that is so deep I need to be wide awake for it. Whatever I am now certain we are really going to enjoy the Denon. Thank you Sonnie for your excellent review which swayed me quite a bit.


----------



## Rick R

Rick R said:


> Thank you and Sonnie for the welcomes, just getting used to finding my way around this forum (although been contributing on the AVR forums for a while)
> 
> So the beast arrived, took ages to install, had to take out the Pio and then re route all the cables to keep separation between mains, speaker and signal cables in a rack mounted on spikes so I can't move it, took quite a while till I was satisfied. Did a quick single point calibration and then tried out some music and a movie. All was OK but it did not seem much better than the Pio but it had not really a decent chance to warm through. Today left it on for 4hrs and then did a full multi-point calibration (should have said 3 point, central and two main chairs) and check with SPL meter all spot on except I thought the sub was a bit low. Then a test with the Oppo on CD analogue and bitstream. Wow got some hairs standing up on the back of my neck, same thing I had first hearing the Oppo 95 analogue, being an lddude: surprised my hearing is that good. Ran briefly a movie with DTS MA 7.1 very impressed, now looking forward to settling down with a good movie something to stretch it a bit, maybe Inception although that is so deep I need to be wide awake for it. Whatever I am now certain we are really going to enjoy the Denon. Thank you Sonnie for your excellent review which swayed me quite a bit.


Update on the Denon 4520
Reading through Sonnie's review (again he makes a very valid point) and my dealer comments I noted Audyssey had set my mains and surrounds to large (surrounds are stand mounted and would normally be used as main speakers and siblings of the front speakers) unsurprisingly as they really are full range and is also they way I have used them in the past with the Pioneer. I had felt that music and some films were a bit heavy in the bass and resulting in loss of clarity so set them all to small and with a few other tweaks, including turning off the sub for stereo music, as I find my way around this new toy. Suddenly I found we really had lift off. We had watched Red 2 before this and I was very disappointed in the AQ but a lot I think has to do with the way the studio laid down the sound track. Watching the Hobbit and Expendables after this was a revelation as was listening to Pink Floyd, Dire Straits and Nora Jones 'Not To Late'. I can now confirm the Oppo 95 and the Denon 4520 do indeed make a terrific combination :bigsmile::hsd: and it is only going to get better as the 4520 beds in, already noticing the difference after a few days. Now away with the laptop to sit in front of it and go further through the manual, want to find out how to back up the calibrations among other things


----------



## Sonnie

Good stuff Rick... glad you are getting it all worked out. :T


----------



## ALMFamily

Sonnie said:


> Good stuff Rick... glad you are getting it all worked out. :T


+1 - great to hear and thanks for letting us know how things are going!


----------



## surveyor

Excellent review- thanks!


----------



## chrismdon

Enjoyed the review, I am about ready to pull the trigger on this one! It will replace my beloved 4308.


----------



## Sonnie

Thanks and welcome to the forum. This is indeed a nice receiver and I hope you find it suits you well.


----------



## Archaea

Sonnie,

Are you still using the 4520 as your main AVR? Or have you moved on?

I too have an Onkyo 5508 and a Denon 4520 and am trying to figure out which I like better. In an uncanny similarity - I bought the 4520 when my 5508 was in the shop. However, no sooner had my 5508 come back from the shop, my 4520 died, and it's been in and out of the shop regularly for the last 4 months. Finally Denon made right on the situation and gave me a different refurb unit all together, because my local repair shop told Denon there was a litany of problems with it - problems I didn't even discover myself. It was a lemon --- that said I'm getting ready to do some comparisons of the two. I've always liked my Onkyo 1007 before the 5508 and have really enjoyed my 5508. The 4520 has a lot of fans too --- so it'll be fun to do the comparison.

One thing I've discovered is there is potentially quite a variance in Audyssey mics --- so what we may think we like about one AVR, vs. another brand may have a lot to do with the Audyssey mic luck of the draw. I made a thread about that at avsforum. My refurbed Denon 4520 came with yet another mic, so I'll add it's FR plot to another test of the three mics I currently own within the next few days.

All that boils down to this. When I first got the Denon 4520 I ran Audyssey and was really impressed with the sound --- considering I'd never liked what Audyssey did on my Onkyo. When the Denon died I ran Audyssey with my Onkyo 5508 ---- BUT used the Denon mic and ---- surprise -- I really liked the sound, and it sounded just like the Denon to me?????? Ultimately I figured out it wasn't that Denon had a subjectively preferable version of Audyssey - but rather the Audyssey mic (same part number BTW) that shipped with the Denon was more matched to my subjective preferences. I always thought Audyssey on my Onkyo 5508 made my speakers too bright -- almost untolerable. Well testing the mics back to back revealed that the Onkyo packaged mic put the highest frequency treble bias about 5dB higher than the Denon mic. It really is hard to know which way is up in this hobby sometimes. I could have easily just said Denon seems to have a better implementation/superior sounding version of Audyssey (and did) until I figured this out ----- when really the truth is --- my initial preference was as random as rolling the dice --- simply based on the random mic built by a different company all together that was packaged in my AVR box.











http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...-between-two-audyssey-multi-eq-xt32-mics.html


----------



## surveyor

Yes I still own and use the Denon AVR-4520ci. I really enjoy it. It has been trouble free. I had a Integra DHC 80.2 before it and experienced issues with ribbon cable connections, and the HDMI card had to be replaced. It was under warranty. I sold it. The Integra was quite similar to your Onkyo 5508- I assume.


----------



## cez123

My Yamaha receiver went kaput is at a shop now (about 700 miles from me :sweat

I can't wait until I get the receiver back (should be over a month), so I'm heavily considering either the Denon X4000 or the 4520. I can sell my Yamaha once it's fixed, as well as my SVS EQ1. With that, I could recoup some or most of my money.

Sonnie, this review got me REALLY excited. 

The 4520 seems to be a beast. I love the amplifying power that it provides, all its versatility and, even though I'm currently only running a 4.2 system (fronts, surrounds, dual subs, phantom center), I am itching to get it.

Plus, I like the "Made in Japan" deal. For under 800 bucks (refurbished), it seems like a steal.

Thank you for your time reviewing this unit - even if it was a while back . It was very helpful and exciting!


----------



## surveyor

cez123 said:


> My Yamaha receiver went kaput is at a shop now (about 700 miles from me :sweat
> 
> I can't wait until I get the receiver back (should be over a month), so I'm heavily considering either the Denon X4000 or the 4520. I can sell my Yamaha once it's fixed, as well as my SVS EQ1. With that, I could recoup some or most of my money.
> 
> Sonnie, this review got me REALLY excited.
> 
> The 4520 seems to be a beast. I love the amplifying power that it provides, all its versatility and, even though I'm currently only running a 4.2 system (fronts, surrounds, dual subs, phantom center), I am itching to get it.
> 
> Plus, I like the "Made in Japan" deal. For under 800 bucks (refurbished), it seems like a steal.
> 
> Thank you for your time reviewing this unit - even if it was a while back . It was very helpful and exciting!


Your very welcome. I am sure you will enjoy The AVR-4520ci. You can also, get it from accesores4less for $999.99 new with a 3 year factory. http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...gship-home-theater-receiver-150wpc-new/1.html


----------



## cez123

surveyor said:


> Your very welcome. I am sure you will enjoy The AVR-4520ci. You can also, get it from accesores4less for $999.99 new with a 3 year factory.


Since a budget wasn't in my plans (thinking that my Yamaha would last forever...), I really pushed it with the 4520, even with the refurbished unit. I bought it this morning.

I dealt with Mark at A4L and he was a pleasure to deal with. I got the extended warranty, so fingers crossed. 

Now I just need to buy some chocolate and flowers for the wife... The 4520 is too tall and won't fit in my TV stand, so shhhh don't tell her! haha. I'm going to have to move things around.

Thanks again, Sonnie. I'll re-read it once I get the 4520 :T


----------



## surveyor

cez123 said:


> Since a budget wasn't in my plans (thinking that my Yamaha would last forever...), I really pushed it with the 4520, even with the refurbished unit. I bought it this morning.
> 
> I dealt with Mark at A4L and he was a pleasure to deal with. I got the extended warranty, so fingers crossed.
> 
> Now I just need to buy some chocolate and flowers for the wife... The 4520 is too tall and won't fit in my TV stand, so shhhh don't tell her! haha. I'm going to have to move things around.
> 
> Thanks again, Sonnie. I'll re-read it once I get the 4520 :T


Did you get the extended warranty at no extra cost to the $799.99?
What model Yamaha receiver did you have?
Surveyor


----------



## cez123

surveyor said:


> Did you get the extended warranty at no extra cost to the $799.99?
> What model Yamaha receiver did you have?
> Surveyor


Surveyor,

I had to purchase the extended warranty separately: 4 years, through New Leaf, on top of the 1 year Denon warranty for refurbished units. It was $99.

My Yamaha receiver is the RX-V773WABL (same as the other 773s, but all black and with the wi-fi adapter).


----------



## Rick R

cez123 said:


> Since a budget wasn't in my plans (thinking that my Yamaha would last forever...), I really pushed it with the 4520, even with the refurbished unit. I bought it this morning.
> 
> I dealt with Mark at A4L and he was a pleasure to deal with. I got the extended warranty, so fingers crossed.
> 
> Now I just need to buy some chocolate and flowers for the wife... The 4520 is too tall and won't fit in my TV stand, so shhhh don't tell her! haha. I'm going to have to move things around.
> 
> Thanks again, Sonnie. I'll re-read it once I get the 4520 :T


I agree with Sonnie and just like you bought partially on the content of his review and I think in all respects it is better than the fairly high end Pioneer it replaced. I don't think you will be disappointed. I have had it a while now and took me some time and patience to learn the most important features (many I don't use) but mainly wanted the 4Ohm capability, quality, internet radio and the quite nice feature of being able to backup all my settings to a computer, saves a lot of hassle if you ever have to do a full reset. I am in Europe and have to say that support is superb (close to that of Oppo) with response to enquiries usually under 12hrs. Not that anything drastic has happened, but the manual is one major shortcoming of this receiver and despite being technically orientated as a professional engineer it is difficult to follow and not very clear in many areas (probably the Japanese translation), luckily my supplier provided quite a comprehensive start up guide. 

It has turned out to be a really good buy and as I have no interest in Atmos, which it won't do, a good long term investment. Do do a full multipoint Audyssey calibration it is well worth it. I don't use all 8 points but do a 6 point. The first being the center of our listening area between the wife and me setting the main speaker distances and other factors, then I do the outside arm of each chair and then three points at similar lateral locations but approx 3ft in front of the chairs, this gives us excellent results for all types of media and listening modes (have a look at the Audyssey thread on this forum, very useful info) 

I took a long time knowing it was a big beast to ensure it would fit in my rack, but began to sweat a bit when I realised I only had 1/16 of an inch each side between the legs in my nice glass and ash wood stand but it did go in and has plenty of room for ventilation as the stand is open construction. Even after a hard session of an action movie, sometimes more than one, it barely gets warm to the touch and then only the right rear corner top is mildly warmer than the ambient temperature in the room. All round a terrific performer for both music and movies.

Do I have any reservations, just one I listen to multichannel music on occasion but despite having two HDMI connections the Oppo 95 will only output multi channel from HDMI 1 or 2 but not both and the 4520 keeps its HDMI ports active and you can only allocate one source to any one HDMI port, but the Audyssey settings for movies are not ideal for multichannel music (SACD or DVDA) and Audyssey settings are for each source not audio mode. I got over this by buying an active HDMI ver 1.4 splitter (not very expensive a good quality unit with a psu cost about $25 from Hong Kong incl. postage) and now using two HDMI ports on the 4520 I am able to have ideal settings for Audyssey for both music and movies.

Be patient and learn all you can about the wide range of features, it can be daunting but most importantly enjoy :hsd:


----------



## cez123

Awesome. Great read, Rick R. 

(Off topic, but Scotland is on the top 5 of countries I want to visit the most )

Coming from Yamaha and YPAO, I'm sure there will be a learning curve. However, I'm patient and always like to read through this kind of stuff.

I'm already skimming through the Shack's Audyssey thread (as well as AVS' thread). Very useful stuff!

I just bought a mic boom stand - and adapter - on Amazon, and it should get here a day before the receiver does.

I sure hope it lasts for a long, long time. 
Couldn't care less about Atmos - actually, couldn't afford in-ceiling speakers, either haha.

Time to box up my SVS EQ1 and put it for sale. I'm very excited about XT32 and SubEQ.


----------



## Rick R

cez123 said:


> Awesome. Great read, Rick R.
> 
> (Off topic, but Scotland is on the top 5 of countries I want to visit the most )
> 
> Coming from Yamaha and YPAO, I'm sure there will be a learning curve. However, I'm patient and always like to read through this kind of stuff.
> 
> I'm already skimming through the Shack's Audyssey thread (as well as AVS' thread). Very useful stuff!
> 
> I just bought a mic boom stand - and adapter - on Amazon, and it should get here a day before the receiver does.
> 
> *I sure hope it lasts for a long, long time.
> Couldn't care less about Atmos - actually, couldn't afford in-ceiling speakers, either haha.*
> 
> Time to box up my SVS EQ1 and put it for sale. I'm very excited about XT32 and SubEQ.


Yeah not a bad place to live but we have our ups and downs just like anywhere else

*My theory is that any good AVR/Amp should last around ten years at least*, my old Yamaha now with a pal must be over 15 years old and still going strong. The Pioneer AVR ,flagship at the time, which I still have in the den and working fine must be around 8 years old, the main reasons for replacing it with the 4520 was the later technology peripherals and a concern that all my main system speakers are 4Ohm and occasionally I lost the left surround channel, not happened since its location to the den with 8Ohm speakers.

*Atmos, well I have heard it :blink: not terribly impressed don't know what all the fuss is about,* there are of course its advocates and if that's what they want/need then fine, but to be honest I get just about as good over head effects from the 4520 without it and no way would I get away with, or want ceiling speakers, 7 full range plus a sub is quite enough. Good move with the mic stand they really are necessary in some form or another, I was lucky and had some bits from a highliter lamp to make one just the right height


----------



## aniceplace

I just up graded a Yamaha RX-V677 to the Denon 4520. So far I'm very pleased especially with the noticeable increase in power. Audyssey set my mains to large which would seem correct since each tower has (2) 12" woofers, but when listening to music my single sub isn't being utilized. The Yamaha did something similar until I went into manual settings and picked 'extra bass'. Is there something simple to get use of the sub or is this more technical than would appear. Did Audyssey recognize a possible conflict with the placement of the sub in relation to the large mains?


----------



## Philm63

aniceplace said:


> I just up graded a Yamaha RX-V677 to the Denon 4520. So far I'm very pleased especially with the noticeable increase in power. Audyssey set my mains to large which would seem correct since each tower has (2) 12" woofers, but when listening to music my single sub isn't being utilized. The Yamaha did something similar until I went into manual settings and picked 'extra bass'. Is there something simple to get use of the sub or is this more technical than would appear. Did Audyssey recognize a possible conflict with the placement of the sub in relation to the large mains?


When you listen to music, what sound mode are you using on the 4520? I, too, just upgraded to this AVR and you're right, the power is nice, and the Audyssey is a step up from the X2000 I used previously. There is an "LFE + Mains" setting for the subs, but I hear more negative than positive comments on this setting, and I do not use it personally. I've tried it, and it does sound different (not sure if it is fair to say "better or worse"), but it sounds great without it, so that's how I run it.

I listen to music in Stereo mode which gives me the subs. I believe Direct or Pure Direct will remove Audyssey and run just the mains (LR) - not sure if, in the presence of LFE signals, the LFE is diverted to the mains, or if this depends on whether or not the mains are set to Large - I haven't experimented this far yet. Mine are set to Small (Chane A5rx-c's) and my subs are playing when in Stereo, this much I know.


----------



## Rick R

aniceplace said:


> I just up graded a Yamaha RX-V677 to the Denon 4520. So far I'm very pleased especially with the noticeable increase in power. Audyssey set my mains to large which would seem correct since each tower has (2) 12" woofers, but when listening to music my single sub isn't being utilized. The Yamaha did something similar until I went into manual settings and picked 'extra bass'. Is there something simple to get use of the sub or is this more technical than would appear. Did Audyssey recognize a possible conflict with the placement of the sub in relation to the large mains?


This may be helpful to cez123

This is pretty normal for Audyssey, read through Sonnies review and the Audyssey thread. But pretty easy to sort out. Basically what Audyssey does is measures the response and then sets the speakers accordingly but of course all sorts of things affect this including room gain. What I would do is look at the specification for your speakers and check what the low end frequency response is. I will use my mains as an example which are quoted as 38Hz. First though I should point out that these settings suit me, but many of the experts on this an other forums recommend setting the crossover, which is what you are going to do, to 80Hz for all speakers (unless they are extremely limited in the bass department) this leaves the heavy bass lifting to the sub and allows the AVR/Amp to use its power in the low mid to upper ranges. However in my opinion except in extreme circumstances the last thing the 4520 is, is short of power.

Then go into the setup menu (I am going from memory here as I am not in front of the 4520 so please excuse any minor glitches, pm me if you need clarification). Scroll down down to speakers use the right arrow or enter and then select manual setup. Scroll to crossover settings and ensure that at the top individual (or something like that) is displayed and change it to that if necessary. next scroll down to each individual pairs of speakers and set the crossover from large to whatever crossover setting you want from the listing, in my case with the -3dB bass point being at 38Hz I set mine to 40Hz this basically prevents the amplifier from sending frequencies way down in the sub bass region that the speakers cannot handle. To see what I mean when you have finished and be careful go into the speakers Audyssey setup the other option and scroll down to view results in there you will be able to find the graphical representation of what Audyssey initially set and likely you will see below the low frequency cut off of your speakers some pretty heavy bass boost anything from +6dB to +12dB.

Whether you decide to set all to 80Hz or go my way is up to you and what you prefer. I would point out here that most manufacturers of AVR's do not send any bass to the sub woofer from other channels if the speakers for that channel are set to large.

Finally what I found after doing the above, was that heavy bass that was really boomy and uncomfortable :crying:with speakers set to large, as in for example some of the tracks in the album 'Adele 21', had been completely tamed to clean and proper bass :clap: with the sub woofer on or off. Generally I run, for critical listening using the analogue outs on an Oppo 95, with the sub off in music mode, as I generally don't listen to church organ music (then the sub would be on) IMHO there is little lost with the crossover set to 40Hz, not being a musician I am going from others opinions hereonder:, I believe bass guitar does not quite get down to 40Hz.

Up to you to experiment now and find out what settings you prefer, you have a first class flagship AVR capable of superb performance it's just a complicated beast that takes a while to get used to and find all the tweeks and set them to your liking. I have had mine a year now and still learning :blink:.

By the way just a couple of additional notes. - You do not need to make any other changes (unless you want to, but I would not) to the Audyssey calibrated settings these are retained in the memory. Once all done and you are happy I would do a backup to a computer, how to do this is one of the few items that is fairly clearly explained in the rather awkward manual. Basically use the browser with the IP address of the 4520 (in network settings or information) and almost all control and setting are available from your computer including a save and load settings feature note AVR network setting has to be set to 'on in standby' for this to work properly. Being a belt and braces kind of guy :nerd::rofl2: I then copy the backup to a CD on which I keep all backups as I make any changes. Saves a lot of hassle if on the very very rare occasion you may have to do a full reset.
Hope all the above helps


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## aniceplace

Philm63, Rick R
Thanks for your response.

Rick R
Your explanation makes perfect since. I will follow your advice and change the crossover frequencies of the mains and surrounds. I love this machine and all its flexibility.


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## NBPk402

GRRR. I was having a problem with my Denon 4520... The other night the Denon stopped seeing my PS3, so i unhooked the PS3, and hooked it up to my other setup. I used all the same cables, and it worked fine. I took it back to my other setup, and it still would not work.

I then decided to do a factory reset on my 4520. Everything went fine, and the PS3 now works. Since I lost my Config settings from the reset, I did a load of my saved settings. That was 1 hour ago! It appears to be stuck in loading mode. I don't know if it is safe to power down and reset or what i should do... Any ideas...as I don't want to end up with a 4520 brick.


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## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> GRRR. I was having a problem with my Denon 4520... The other night the Denon stopped seeing my PS3, so i unhooked the PS3, and hooked it up to my other setup. I used all the same cables, and it worked fine. I took it back to my other setup, and it still would not work. I then decided to do a factory reset on my 4520. Everything went fine, and the PS3 now works. Since I lost my Config settings from the reset, I did a load of my saved settings. That was 1 hour ago! It appears to be stuck in loading mode. I don't know if it is safe to power down and reset or what i should do... Any ideas...as I don't want to end up with a 4520 brick.


 Ouch! I can only imagine your stress level. Is it still under warranty and have you called Denon tech support?


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## NBPk402

Out of warranty. 

I talked to a friend of mine who is a Repair Tech, and he told me to unplug it, wait 30 minutes and see if it still works as it could be a toaster. I did as he said, and it booted back up like nothing was wrong. I decided since it gave me problems loading the config last time, I will not chance it and just set everything up again. I just hope that it sounds exactly the same as before! My issue is getting the mic in the same locations as before. I am getting ready to re run Audyssey again now. :T


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## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> Out of warranty.  I talked to a friend of mine who is a Repair Tech, and he told me to unplug it, wait 30 minutes and see if it still works as it could be a toaster. I did as he said, and it booted back up like nothing was wrong. I decided since it gave me problems loading the config last time, I will not chance it and just set everything up again. I just hope that it sounds exactly the same as before! My issue is getting the mic in the same locations as before. I am getting ready to re run Audyssey again now. :T


 I hate rerunning Audyssey after I get a good reading and the sound is just right. Good to hear it's working again. Had you owned an Onkyo internet rumors would have said it burst into flames and burnt your house down.


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## Rick R

ellisr63 said:


> Out of warranty.
> 
> I talked to a friend of mine who is a Repair Tech, and he told me to unplug it, wait 30 minutes and see if it still works as it could be a toaster. I did as he said, and it booted back up like nothing was wrong. I decided since it gave me problems loading the config last time, I will not chance it and just set everything up again. I just hope that it sounds exactly the same as before! My issue is getting the mic in the same locations as before. I am getting ready to re run Audyssey again now. :T


Hi Ron, yeah I guess it raises the temperature until it's working again, but glad it is though, I think these 4520's are pretty tolerant to this kind of thing even to screw ups with firmware updates, Denon advise switch off and start again :devil:. I tend to log my speaker distances when I do a calibration and keep it in the same place as the backup. That way I always have a fairly good idea of where the mic should be.

I found Denon support really quite good and with one query they gave me a method of restarting a specific processor for networking without having to do a full reset, I did not need it, for the reason see below. These of course are probably Denon tech methods that are not included in the manual. My point here is that there is probably a similar sequence of button pushers to restart HDMI ports and other features which may have solved your PS3 problem without a full reset.

Why did it hang, I can only think of one situation where this might occur and relates to my non existent networking problem above. What browser are you using? Is it Firefox perchance? If so then this is most likely the problem because it times out after 300secs (in versions 29 onwards) when waiting for responses from the 4520. Why they have done this I have no idea but it caused me problems doing backups which as you know take around 10mins, I am assuming, as so far I have never had to do one, there will be similar delays when reloading the settings. I did post the solution to this problem with Firefox in this thread earlier around page 7 I think, I will post the reference to this when I find it. It involves changing a timeout setting in Firefox from 300 secs and I advised 1500secs which is twice as long as the 4520 should require, although I used 3000 myself originally

Well I got that wrong it is not in this thread but the owners thread, link here http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...cussion-information-thread-21.html#post838370.

Hope this might be of some help

Rick


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## Rick R

ellisr63 said:


> Out of warranty.
> 
> I talked to a friend of mine who is a Repair Tech, and he told me to unplug it, wait 30 minutes and see if it still works as it could be a toaster. I did as he said, and it booted back up like nothing was wrong. I decided since it gave me problems loading the config last time, I will not chance it and just set everything up again. I just hope that it sounds exactly the same as before! My issue is getting the mic in the same locations as before. I am getting ready to re run Audyssey again now. :T


In relation to my post above, I just had another thought onder:. When doing backups and restoring the config networking should be set to *'on in standby'*. Generally I am not set that way I hate the red glow of the partial standby light :sad:, as a result I have been caught out in the past doing a config backup which was not successful and wondering why :foottap:. Anyway, maybe just another possibility for the config load to hang.


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## NBPk402

Well it is working again, but the magic is gone.  I had saved the backup file 3 times...So I am going to check the files to see if any of them are good. I am def not a happy camper today.  I knew that the magic had to do with the mic placement, and my worst fear happened. Today i will be trying various things to get the magic back again.


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## NBPk402

Well the saved files are bad according to the hex editor i used, so i had another run at the calibration. This time i did it just like Wayne suggested in his Audyssey setup thread. I had the first 6 locations no more than 3" apart, and then did the last 2 settings at the center of the rear row on each arm wrest (a couple of inches above). The results were 100% better than i had last night, but not quite to where it was before. I also noticed that i needed to turn up the volume about 5db more to get the same sensations I used to get with my magic tune (still not as good in all aspects, but equal to or a little better in some while not as good in other aspects). I am thinking of going into the settings, and raising the levels for each channel by 5db, and then re listen. 

Any ideas on whether this is a good idea?


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## JBrax

Do you level match your speakers to 75db?


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## NBPk402

JBrax said:


> Do you level match your speakers to 75db?


I left them all the way they were... If I go to level match them again I would have to do it with the individual volume on each amp and that will through off my MiniDSPs unless there is another way to level match them in the Denon. :T


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## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> I left them all the way they were... If I go to level match them again I would have to do it with the individual volume on each amp and that will through off my MiniDSPs unless there is another way to level match them in the Denon. :T


 Ok, sorry I don't know much about the Denons. Actually I don't know much about any of this stuff. Pretty much running with knives would describe my knowledge with this hobby!


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## NBPk402

JBrax said:


> Ok, sorry I don't know much about the Denons. Actually I don't know much about any of this stuff. Pretty much running with knives would describe my knowledge with this hobby!


:rofl::rofl::T:T


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## NBPk402

I put on Roger Waters Amused to Kill, and I noticed I no longer have a deep soundstage like i did before. When i had it setup before the Bobcat was to my right when i sit in the 2nd row... Now it is up by the screen


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## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> I put on Roger Waters Amused to Kill, and I noticed I no longer have a deep soundstage like i did before. When i had it setup before the Bobcat was to my right when i sit in the 2nd row... Now it is up by the screen


 I can sense your frustration. At least your Denon still works and didn't "brick" out on you. It may take some work but I'm sure you'll get back to where you were. The magic will be back it's just a matter of time.


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## NBPk402

Now if i could just figure out how I need to change the mics to get back 10' + of soundstage depth from the 2nd row. The speakers have not been changed nor has the MLP...only running Audyssey again after having to reset the 4520.

Does anyone know which way i would move the mics to regain the depth?


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## tonyvdb

Personally I would only focus the mic in a box no larger than about 3ft around the listening position. Measure 7 spots starting with the listening position and ending in it again.


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## JBrax

tonyvdb said:


> Personally I would only focus the mic in a box no larger than about 3ft around the listening position. Measure 7 spots starting with the listening position and ending in it again.


 That's what I do when measuring. The main two (wife and I) and a third with only two measurements which is rarely used. Seems to work good for us.


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## NBPk402

tonyvdb said:


> Personally I would only focus the mic in a box no larger than about 3ft around the listening position. Measure 7 spots starting with the listening position and ending in it again.


I want to say that when i did the setup before the rest...that I did the points about 1' apart which gave me about 3' width for the second row and then the closer row got the same. This time I did what was suggested in the thread, and went 3" apart.

What we have noticed is that the Midrange used to be "to die for", and now it is not but, now we have more bottom end, and the top end is more extended. I will attempt to save my settings again, and also check to make sure it is a good one before doing more runs with Audyssey. At least by doing it this way i should not have to worry about ending up with a worse setup than I currently have. I would love it if i could get the midrange back that we had, and keep the bottom, and top ends that we currently have. :T:T


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## JBrax

Any luck getting the magic back?


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## NBPk402

JBrax said:


> Any luck getting the magic back?


Not yet... I am going to see if i can get a good save, and then try again hopefully today.:T:T

I think i came up with a better analogy to explain the magic last night... It is like you just stripped the the caramel off of the music, and were left with only the raw music. The sound was 3D, and when you watched a movie the characters were standing in front of you on the stage...the environment wrapped around each individual character to make them real.


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## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> Not yet... I am going to see if i can get a good save, and then try again hopefully today.:T:T I think i came up with a better analogy to explain the magic last night... It is like you just stripped the the caramel off of the music, and were left with only the raw music. The sound was 3D, and when you watched a movie the characters were standing in front of you on the stage...the environment wrapped around each individual character to make them real.


 I get what you're saying.


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## aniceplace

When you did have the magic what listening mode were you in?


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## NBPk402

aniceplace said:


> When you did have the magic what listening mode were you in?


It was magic in Stereo (with subs), and when watching movies.:T


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## NBPk402

I think i might have the magic back! I tried again to upload my save and it worked... I then went in and checked the settings just to be sure it was not what i already had, and I saw my inputs were named the same as they were before the reset. I have listened to a few songs and i think all is great! I will do some more serious listening this weekend to confirm, but for now i think I have success. I will need to make backups of backups for the file if it is the correct one.


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## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> I think i might have the magic back! I tried again to upload my save and it worked... I then went in and checked the settings just to be sure it was not what i already had, and I saw my inputs were named the same as they were before the reset. I have listened to a few songs and i think all is great! I will do some more serious listening this weekend to confirm, but for now i think I have success. I will need to make backups of backups for the file if it is the correct one.


 Woo Hoo! The magic is back!


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## bmcn

Long time lurker, new member.

Have what I believe is a straightforward requirement, but can't get a clear answer if the 4520 handles its preamp mode differently than my 4311, with which I'm very pleased overall.

I wish to use my 4311's or a 4520's internal amps to power FL/C/FR and its preamp out for a different 'zone'.

The FL/C/FR and preamp 'zones' use different sources and will not run concurrently, and I wish to turn the Denon's internal amps off when using the preamp and external amp.

My 4311 doesn't have this capability and I'm curious if the 4520 does?

btw, the FL/FR are Studio 60 v5's; great shootout. Thank you.

Edit: Problem solved, operator error.


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## Rick R

bmcn said:


> Long time lurker, new member.
> 
> Have what I believe is a straightforward requirement, but can't get a clear answer if the 4520 handles its preamp mode differently than my 4311, with which I'm very pleased overall.
> 
> I wish to use my 4311's or a 4520's internal amps to power FL/C/FR and its preamp out for a different 'zone'.
> 
> The FL/C/FR and preamp 'zones' use different sources and will not run concurrently, and I wish to turn the Denon's internal amps off when using the preamp and external amp.
> 
> My 4311 doesn't have this capability and I'm curious if the 4520 does?
> 
> btw, the FL/FR are Studio 60 v5's; great shootout. Thank you.


I'm running a bit thin on the ground here as I tend not to use the zones on the 4520 but from what I remember the situation is as follows

If you plug anything into a pre-out then the main amp for that channel is muted, someone correct me if I am wrong.

The zones on the 4520 are switchable on and off from the remote, select the zone required (top left button) and switch on or off with that zone selected and whilst it is selected the remote controls the various functions for that zone eg volume etc.
The sources can be selected from the front panel control but are, if memory serves me right, limited depending bythe source mode whether digital, analogue, HDMI or off the internet. I can't remember the exact configuration but as far as I can remember Zone 2 is a low level output from the pre-out, Zone 3 can have any spare amplifier(s) allocated to it and Zone 4 has an HDMI output. There are other functions like being able to drive another AVR using digital or analogue using a different source on the 4520 from which the main zone is set for example CD sound to the other AVR whilst listening to TV sound from the 4520 and there are other features. I have not spent much time on this side of the AVR so some of the information above may be incorrect. The AVR manual is available as a download from the Denon site and may give a better insight into the various zone options, but be warned it is not the easiest manual in the world to read:yikes: 

The other thing is I don't know if the 4520 is still available any more and you may have to look at the 6200 or 7200 but I understand they are a bit more flexible with regard to zone source allocation and conversion from one format to another

Treat all the above with a little bit of caution it is in the ballpark but may not be completely accurate check out the main details from the 4520 manual which can be downloaded here https://usa.denon.com/us/downloads/manuals-and-downloads although not easy to go through should give you a good idea of what you can and cannot do, it is quite a large download around 30Mb or more.

Mine is the European model and again from memory there are some differences from the North American model the differences in both cases are all desirable but we don't get em all :frown:


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