# Factory built in-floor subwoofer options?



## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Hi there: I'm helping a friend-of-a-friend get his living room home theater together. They're re-doing their whole room, down to the studs, which opens up lots of nice options. On the downside, the wife is adamantly opposed to boxes on the floor, so no floorstanding speakers or subs has been an issue. So my usual standby recommendation (pretty much anything from SVS, depending on budget) won't fly. IB systems seem interesting, but (a) I am not that close that I would volunteer to help beyond advice, let alone build serious stuff for him, (b) he is all thumbs, and (c) the contractor that's doing the remodel is competent to get a box bolted in place and wires run, but he's no finish carpenter so no custom work, please.

Their contractor recommended the Polk Audio CSW100 in-floor sub, which he has installed many times (he says) with very happy customers resulting, but I wasn't familiar with it. My knee-jerk reflex was to say no, because, frankly, I'm not a huge fan of Polk, due to some bad experiences in the past. Not sure if they've cleaned up their act or not, but I'm some biased anti-Polk, so I wanted to look into other options. It's also a somewhat larger space (exact details coming when I get them), so a 10" sub didn't seem likely to cut it, although I can be convinced otherwise. I did turn up an example of a relatively high end system built using the Polk subs, but (a) I'm not sure we have the budget for two, and (b) I'm not sure how much extra work went into tweaking)

A little Google-Fu turned up The Velodyne SC IF/IC In-floor Subwoofer. The Velodyne name, of course, leaves me with a lot more warm and fuzzies, for subwoofers.

One thing I'm uncertain of is how one would determine the optimal position for the sub, when you can't move the sub! Further, since the front of the house interior is still stripped to the studs, there really isn't any way that I can think of to test or measure room response with REW or anything like that. That's one advantage to the Velodyne, which includes EQ gear that will at least attempt to compensate for room response. (This article seems to speak well of them, although it's about the SC600, an earlier/discontinued model).

Are there other good in-floor subs I should suggest considering? My friend is not going to be building anything himself, so I'm trying to stick to factory models, and brands that have a reputation I can sell him on. We may end up going with the Polk in the end, who knows, but having some more options to discuss would be helpful. Thanks!

Note: I did see a recent thread here that discussed the Velodyne being "destroyed" by a single PSA XS30 box sub, which is kind disheartening, but that was talking about the in-wall subs, not the in-floor subs, which seem to have better characteristics (just from looking at pictures). I wish there was a place in LA where one could hear/demo these in person!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I would go with several sealed subs built in to the floor. This would a be DIY, but since you don't have to finish it, it wouldn't be any more difficult than installing a prefab sub and at least half the price with probably 4x the output of a prefab in-wall sub. Have the contractor, or a local car audio shop, or cabinet maker, build the box so that it fits between the studs in the floor or risers in the room if you have them. We can help you determine the size of box and bracing required if you have it built. Positioning can be determined by using the "crawl-test." This is where you put a subwoofer in the listening position and crawl around the room while listening to where the sub sounds best. This best place is where the sub works best. Find multiple positions if you are using more than one sub. 

Triad also makes some in-wall subs if you want to go pre-fab for sure.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks, but pretty sure we're going to want to stick to prefab, rather than DIY. I'm not planning to get THAT involved in the project, and he isn't so into it that he's going to want to come seek help here in person. Basically I'm trying to figure out if I should let the contractor recommendation of the Polk in-floors stand, or if I should push the Velodyne option instead. Or another, if there are other well-regarded prefab options out there.

The Triad option is certainly compact, but it doesn't seem like it would have the same output as the Polk, which is also 10" but considerably more powerful amp and a larger cabinet. And the Velodyne, at 12" and with even more power, I'd think is even more robust. That's the best option I've been able to turn up so far (on paper, at least).


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

A chat with my local high end shop pointed me towards the JL Audio Fathom IWS-SYS-1 as the best of the best. Unfortunately it's way over budget ($4.5k). Also the Paradigm RVC-12SQ, which will probably be about $2k... much more of a possibility, but still double the cost of the Polk that the contractor recommended. I'm still poking around and checking options. Meeting at the house tomorrow morning, so hopefully I've got some solid options by then.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Met with the couple today at the construction site (aka house), and I'm please to report I was able to convince them to go with a standard box subwoofer instead. Fortunately there was a design change and there is now a space for a normal sub. 

On the downside, I think they're really wanting (a) only one (so no dual subs), and (b) the box to be no bigger than a 24" cube. They want to put a table over it, with a table cloth, to hide it. I don't think I see any issue with that, other than I did warn them not to expect anything put on the table to stay in place with a powerful sub right underneath!

Currently I'm looking at the SVS SB13 Ultra. Would one of those do a decent job of pressurizing the room? The room in question, unfortunately, it pretty big as it's kitchen-dining room-living room in one big 29'x17' space (with 9' ceilings), giving us about 5500 cf to pressurize. Would the sealed sub do ok there, or should I be trying to convince them that the extra inches taken by the PB13 Ultra are worth it?


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

I don't know what problem you have had with Polk in the past, but if it had to do with customer service, they have definitely stepped up their game. I had a tweeter go out on one of my front speakers and was sent a new one with no problems what so ever. The tweeter was damage in shipping and they sent a new right away with no hesitation as well. I own a pair of speakers from them and they are ok.. But customer service is on par for sure.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Are you on a concrete slab or do you have a subfloor? If you have a crawl space under your floor you could do a IB woofer, and your whole crawl space would become the cabinet..


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

ellisr63 said:


> Are you on a concrete slab or do you have a subfloor? If you have a crawl space under your floor you could do a IB woofer, and your whole crawl space would become the cabinet..


That level of custom install is not an option. They're an elderly couple who won't be crawling under the house any time soon, and I'm certainly not build one for them before I build one for myself!


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

KalaniP said:


> That level of custom install is not an option. They're an elderly couple who won't be crawling under the house any time soon, and I'm certainly not build one for them before I build one for myself!


You don't have to crawl under the floor except to run your wires... Other than that the sub would be mounted to a plate that would be mounted between your floor joists just below the floor. It wouldn't be any different than doing a box and mounting that to the floor... It would just be open in the back and use the whole floor cavity as a box. Here are some examples...
http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/page3IB-Gallery2.html


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Funky Waves 18.0c

Comes in so many beautiful wood finishes that there is Got to be one she likes enough not to cover.
http://www.funkaudio.ca/Finishes.html

Customizable, talk to the builder, tell him about the room 
http://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/funk-audio-releases-4-new-subwoofer-15.0-15.3-18.0-18.1


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

ellisr63 said:


> You don't have to crawl under the floor except to run your wires... Other than that the sub would be mounted to a plate that would be mounted between your floor joists just below the floor. It wouldn't be any different than doing a box and mounting that to the floor... It would just be open in the back and use the whole floor cavity as a box. Here are some examples...
> http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/page3IB-Gallery2.html


IB is not an option. And again, I'm not building anything for this couple! Sorry, I know it's fans are rightfully enthusiastic, but we're looking at Factory subs ONLY.


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## Saturn94 (Jun 8, 2013)

If a custom finish is desireable, check out Salk. They make custom cabinets using Rythmik sub kits. The couple could choose whatever finish and veneer they want. Also, Salk can adjust the dimensions of the box (they are after all custom builders).


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