# Pretty Much Starting Over



## RhysOrd (Jan 2, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm returning to home theater after a bit of an absence. I tried configuring an 18'x14' den on my own around 1993 with purchases that never seemed to sound as good as I wanted. I'm still using most of it, and it's time to join the 21st century. I'd be replacing a big Yamaha RX-1070 Pro Logic receiver, Yamaha CD changer, DVD player, a Yamaha 3 piece front speaker setup (2 satellites and powered subwoofer), Cambridge Soundworks Center Channel Plus, and some Advent surrounds that I disconnected long ago. Started with a 27" Panasonic CRT and replaced it with a 36" Sony Wega in 2004. Everything still works great, but of course doesn't do what today's gear does. 

The surround back then just never sounded good. I ended up turning it off in frustration many times, unable to hear dialogue clearly. I should probably hire a pro to help me to it correctly this time, but I'm way too much of a DIY kind of guy.

I've held off replacing the TV waiting for it to die but it doesn't seem to be in any hurry. The sheer weight of it will require a lot of help to remove it, along with the other stuff. The kids have finally embarrassed us into HDTV, and it's overdue. I've spent a lot of time reading as much as I can here, AVS, Amazon reviews, and whatever else I can find. I'm not an audio enthusiast or hobbyist, but more of a casual viewer who would just like some impressive sound to go with the HDTV. A few movies a month, some sports, some TV. No gaming. Frankly, although I'm really into music, I find that I rarely use the stereo in that room much any more. Everything is on the iPod, and most listening is in the car or while walking. 

I think a 50-52"' display would be best for this room. It has to go in a corner with the present furniture arrangement, on a large cabinet I built to support the Sony with component shelves/doors underneath. A 46" is too small, and a 55" will just not look right. I'm leaning towards a Samsung plasma. Panasonic Blu-Ray, and changing from my Tivo Series 2 to the cable provider's 8300HD DVR STB. All of that change will take some getting used to. I might actually wait on the Blu-Ray until the 2012's are out. I'd then like to replace the receiver and the speakers.

Space and speaker visibility (wife) are an issue, so I'm leaning towards either the Energy Take Classic 5.1 or Pioneer SP-PK21BS 5.1 bundles. Expensive towers or huge subs are not going to happen, although I could add a better 2nd sub later I suppose. Both seem to be in my price range and very well reviewed for what I would use it for. Last, for the receiver, either the Pioneer VSX-1121 or the Onkyo TX-NR709. I'm late to the party on the whole iPhone and iPad thing, but hope to get both this year. The Airplay functionality looks appealing, favoring the Pioneer. I think if I could get at my 6000+ song music collection directly from the network using either device, I might actually enjoy the music more at home than in the car. I've also read all of the favorable comments about Onkyo here.

I would very much appreciate any thoughts or recommendations on how this all might work together, given an overall price budget of around 2K. 

You've got a great forum here. I'm a long-time moderator on one of the more notable acoustic guitar brand forums, and know how challenging it can be to run a good one.

Many thanks,

Rhys


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Rhys,
I would give a nod to the Panasonic Plasmas personally. I am not sure of your pricerange, but they make Models in pretty much all ranges. The ST, and VT Series are really fantastic. Also, I would get the biggest Display you can possibly fit. Especially if sitting more than 10 feet from the Display.

I would definitely go with the SP Series over the Energy Speaker Package. If on a budget, you could add the Dayton Sub 120 for under $200 and it is an amazing value and a level of magnitudes better than the one in the Energy Package.

I would absolutely go with the Onkyo as the Pioneer's until you get to the much more expensive SC Series are somewhat lacking when it comes to driving 5 Channels. The 709 can output around 100 Watts into 5 Channels whereas the Pioneer outputs half that. In addition, Audyssey MultEQ XT is an awesome RoomEQ and is offered on the Onkyo whereas the Pioneer uses their proprietary MCACC EQ. The major downside to MCACC is that it does not apply Filtering to the Subwoofer Channel.
Cheers,
JJ


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## RhysOrd (Jan 2, 2012)

JJ,

Thanks. I've gone back and forth between the Samsung and Panasonic plasmas. The two I'm looking at have similar capabilities. The only problem I have with the latter is the extra cost for 4 sets of 3D glasses for the family. That adds a whopping $450 (Gen 3 rechargeable, Amazon.) Who knows how much 3D I'll even bother with, but Samsung includes 2, and adding more seem pretty reasonable, around $30 a pair.

I'm a little confused with the Onyko on how exactly I would listen to my iTunes library short of a physical connection from the iPod to a USB port or the use of a $100 optional dock. I'm probably giving the Airplay feature too much weight in the eventual receiver decision, but is there any other way to play music stored in my PC's iTunes library through the Onkyo receiver if connected to the same network?

Rhys


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Rhys,
I think the iPhone can also use Doubletwist with the additional Airsync App to bring your iTunes wireless into your HT provided you have a Networked AVR. As I have no interest in 3D as it stands, I honestly do not probably think enough about additional costs like 3D Glasses. Much of this is due to the lack of 3D Programming. At this point 3D has become somewhat of a Value Added Feature whereas the makers were hoping to create a premium sector due to the plummeting cost of Panels. It really has not taken off and I would definitely put 2D Performance far above 3D.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> ...I would definitely put 2D Performance far above 3D.


Jack, I'm a bit out of the loop with all of the new panels that are out now but I'm trying to give a friend some advice which may also help Rhys. Is it true that a 3D panel (either LCD or Plasma) will offer a better 2D image compared to a 2D panel? I would assume the better backlighting and refresh rates required for 3D content would help the 2D content but I'm sure not if that's really the case.

Thanks


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Infrasonic said:


> Jack, I'm a bit out of the loop with all of the new panels that are out now but I'm trying to give a friend some advice which may also help Rhys. Is it true that a 3D panel (either LCD or Plasma) will offer a better 2D image compared to a 2D panel? I would assume the better backlighting and refresh rates required for 3D content would help the 2D content but I'm sure not if that's really the case.
> 
> Thanks


Hello,
Things like Refresh Rate are certainly important, but to many the Pioneer Kuro's that have been discontinued for several years now are still the gold standard.

As for Backlighting, many 2D LCD TV's have cutting edge Backlighting as well. TV's like Sony's 2D KDL-XBR8 used a fantastic Backlighting Array. 3D has simply become a Value Added Feature so now the best TV's are going to have it thrown in. So I suppose at this point, the best 2D PQ if buying a new TV would come from a 3D Capable TV.
Cheers,
JJ


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

RhysOrd said:


> JJ,
> 
> Thanks. I've gone back and forth between the Samsung and Panasonic plasmas. The two I'm looking at have similar capabilities. The only problem I have with the latter is the extra cost for 4 sets of 3D glasses for the family. That adds a whopping $450 (Gen 3 rechargeable, Amazon.) Who knows how much 3D I'll even bother with, but Samsung includes 2, and adding more seem pretty reasonable, around $30 a pair.
> 
> ...


You can easily stream music from your Apple product via the DLNA feature. Download the app Airmusic onto the IPhone/iPad and begin streaming. It's very simple and works flawlessly. You cannot stream video this way however only music.


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

Good info Jack, thanks!


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## RhysOrd (Jan 2, 2012)

I actually started out with no intention of considering a 3D model. Figured I would save money by just ignoring the whole thing. However, the last review of HDTVs in Consumer Reports suggested in some detail that the 2011 models with 3D capability were just much better televisions, whether or not you ever use 3D. So I'm trying to keep this under $1,000 because I really don't watch loads of television to begin with. I should probably just buy pick one and ignore 3D completely until better content becomes available. I guess it's too early for any standard that would make the glasses universal. 

For a very late adopter of HDTV, the choices are still dizzying. 

That streaming option sounds like it streams from the Apple device rather than from the networked home computer running Windows 7, which Airplay would allow, if I understand it. I wonder if that's something that Onkyo will add in the future. Right now, I'm still using a 2009 iPod classic with a fairly large library of songs which can't stream that way. 


JJ - As a consumer, I'm not clear on your point about the differences in receiver power output. The stated ratings sure look to be very similar in the marketing material. 110 watts per channel (20Hz-20kHz, .08 [email protected]) Both claim to be certified THX Select2 Plus. The Pioneer is heavier, and most of the other specs are a bit over my head. 

Thanks again. 

Rhys


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Just wanted to add my 2 cents. The whole issue of 3D is really user centric. I, personally, would skip it because it makes me feel sick after a while and I'm really not every impressed with the effect. Besides, the thought of wearing glasses (or having enough glasses if you have a crowd over) is ridiculous IMO. In a few years those glasses will be history and displays won't require them. Also, plasmas from Samsung and Panasonic are both very good. Check the reviews on cnet and run with one that you are comfortable with, price-wise. 

As for the pioneer... I own 3. One 521 that is in our home gym (honestly, it does the job but it's nothing special). ... An elite that is my main HT receiver... And an older version of the 1121 that used to be my primary HT receiver but now runs some bass shakers. I have nothing but positive remarks about Pioneer receivers. Great bang for the buck... And I love ye ones in my hT set-up. As for MCACC... It's a very nice equalizer product. It is true that it doesn't equalize your sub. But, sub
Issues are very hard to equalize. They are really best addressed by moving the sub to different areas of your room and/or adding treatments. If you are really serious about equalizing your sub an on-board equalization program like audessey wouldnt come close to cutting-it anyway. Go buy a behringer frequency destroyer and program it using measurements taken from REW. The BFD can be bought on eBay for about 60 or 70 bucks. I guess my point is, don't let the lack of sub equalization on a receiver scare you away. Pioneer can offer great bang for the buck and they sell some solid products.

I don't really get the sense that you are looking to blow the budget... And you can definitely get an excellent - smart and above average - experience with well researched buys. For your situation, look at cnet.com reviews... Look in consumer reports. Shop around for price with quality... Buy and be happy.


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## RhysOrd (Jan 2, 2012)

Thanks for all of the good advice so far. 

I've decided to hold off on the plasma until the 2012 Samsungs and Panasonics are available and initially reviewed. The E550 looks very interesting with better sound (wife) and a full web browser. Something tells me I'll use that, although I'm not clear how you do that with a TV remote. I asked about that in a separate thread in the HDTV section.

We are very heavy TiVo users with a lifetime deal on a 2005 Series 2. When I go to HD, I know I'll have to switch to either the cable company's DVR (NJ Cablevision using a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVR) OR use an M CableCard with a newer TiVo box, presumably the TiVo Premier, and eliminate the cable box. I've read a lot of negatives about the Cablevision DVR and think I'll be happiest sticking with TiVo, re-upping for the lifetime subscription on the new box. I've looked over the cable company limitations that would apply, and none really affect me that much. TiVO also offers a version of their own remote with a QWERTY-thumb keyboard, which might be useful on the web browser?

I'm also reading over the initial reviews of the 2012 Panasonic Blu Ray players, which sound good.

So, when done, I'll have a TV with built-in wi-fi, a BDP with same, a TiVo box with a wireless adapter and a receiver with one as well. Four new devices connected to the network, yikes. Hope I can figure that all out.

Still looking the speakers. The Pioneers are probably too beefy for my room but they sure look and sound great.

I'm curious if anyone has been down this TiVo road before, eliminating the cable box like this, and how it has worked out with HDTV. 

Thanks,

Rhys


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## ru4au (Dec 7, 2011)

Best advise I can give you is to take your time and really decide what is important to you.....Pick the equipment that you like and go for it....The reason I say that is i was in the same boat as you and had been out of the game for quite some while, i didn't know a lot of things i wish i would have when i started buying...just reasearch each decision and these guys on here helped me more than anything


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It would probably be more advantageous to wait until the 2012 Models are released and purchase a 2011 on Closeout. It is not like there are going to be any major changes with the new models. If you can get a Panasonic VT30 Series for a good price, I would jump on it whenever is clever.
Cheers,
JJ


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