# How to obtain more mid bass



## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

I own the SVS primes and Kreisel 12012 sub. I am very happy with them however I feel I'm somehow missing out on mid bass or slam at times.
I wrote to SVS regarding this and Ed was kind enough to suggest the behringer fbq1000 peq to get the slam I'm needing. 
Has anyone has any experience with behringer peq?

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Hey Asere, I have a BFD 1124 that I bought after reading the insanely detailed BFD user guide here. I don't know if they are similar or not but after reading the guide, and playing around a little I feel the 1124 is an easy unit to use. I would suspect the same of the other as well. Ironically I never ended up using mine since my curve is pretty good, although a minidsp might find its way here someday.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

willis7469 said:


> Hey Asere, I have a BFD 1124 that I bought after reading the insanely detailed BFD user guide here. I don't know if they are similar or not but after reading the guide, and playing around a little I feel the 1124 is an easy unit to use. I would suspect the same of the other as well. Ironically I never ended up using mine since my curve is pretty good, although a minidsp might find its way here someday.


Thanks Willis! I am on the fence on getting one since it looks complicated. I'm not sure it would help since my previous sub had the peq feature I did not notice much. At the same time when I had that sub I was using it with in ceiling speakers and with my towers now I might have noticed a difference in the punch.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

asere said:


> I own the SVS primes and Kreisel 12012 sub. I am very happy with them however I feel I'm somehow missing out on mid bass or slam at times. I wrote to SVS regarding this and Ed was kind enough to suggest the behringer fbq1000 peq to get the slam I'm needing. Has anyone has any experience with behringer peq? Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


 I've had the same issues with mid bass. My solution was to buy a pair of Rhythmik FMB8', properly position them (in my space, they ended up on the sidewalls roughly parallel to the the listening position), cross all speakers to 80 HZ, use LPF filter on the FMB8's to send everything below 50 HZ to a pair of 15" Rhythmik's (set at 50/24). The mid bass now is the deepest, most palpable, nuanced and satisfying that I've ever experienced. Movies are awesome now, for the first time ever, I'm totally satisfied with the bass (both mid bass and low bass) in my system.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

The FBQ1000 is the current edition of the DSP1124. You might want to take some measurements with REW to see what your sub response is doing in the mid bass range. If the FBQ seems complicated, you might opt for a vintage Yamaha YDP2006 parametric EQ. It’s more intuitive and user friendly. You can find a review in my signature.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The FBQ1000 is the current edition of the DSP1124. You might want to take some measurements with REW to see what your sub response is doing in the mid bass range. If the FBQ seems complicated, you might opt for a vintage Yamaha YDP2006 parametric EQ. It’s more intuitive and user friendly. You can find a review in my signature.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thank you for the info. First I'm going to place the speakers in a different area and see if there is change. The sub stays right where it's at because REW says so lol! I'll try the 805s fixed q and if no improvement then I might invest in a PEQ.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Asere, what freq range are you referring to as "mid bass"?


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

willis7469 said:


> Asere, what freq range are you referring to as "mid bass"?


man, I'm not even sure. I hear mid is 60hz and above others say 120 and above. All I know is the slam chest hitting is not there. 
I know is possibly the room being too large. I'm just trying to improve here.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Asere, what freq range are you referring to as "mid bass"?


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

willis7469 said:


> Asere, what freq range are you referring to as "mid bass"?


Not sure if it's a duplicate from you or asking me again but please see above.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

asere said:


> Not sure if it's a duplicate from you or asking me again but please see above.


 lol. Brains working off sense making not lol
Not sure how. Closed my phone while sending I think. 
Have you tried moving your crossover at all? I've never seen your graphs to know what your response is like.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

willis7469 said:


> lol. Brains working off sense making not lol
> Not sure how. Closed my phone while sending I think.
> Have you tried moving your crossover at all? I've never seen your graphs to know what your response is like.


lol, I've done rew on sub but not on speakers. I'll do speakers soon when family is not home and that's rare lol


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

You might find a phase cancellation causing an issue. You won't see it on a sub only sweep. Just for fun you might try crossing at 50. The tone control on the 805 is centered at 50. If you cross there, give it a little bump. I know you don't listen at concert levels, so I think the 805 would easily handle the bump, just as an experiment. I know. Everyone in the world will say, how could you even suggest the tone control, but hey, why not?
Also, you might try the phase control at different increments. If you don't want to run rew, it's easy to try. Or run a test tone at the XO freq and measure with an spl meter while a lovely assistant moves the phase. (Or point the spl so you can see the display, if no helper). When you get the most output that should be where to set it. That would indicate a good transition to the mains. Hopefully without a dip in response.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

willis7469 said:


> You might find a phase cancellation causing an issue. You won't see it on a sub only sweep. Just for fun you might try crossing at 50. The tone control on the 805 is centered at 50. If you cross there, give it a little bump. I know you don't listen at concert levels, so I think the 805 would easily handle the bump, just as an experiment. I know. Everyone in the world will say, how could you even suggest the tone control, but hey, why not?
> Also, you might try the phase control at different increments. If you don't want to run rew, it's easy to try. Or run a test tone at the XO freq and measure with an spl meter while a lovely assistant moves the phase. (Or point the spl so you can see the display, if no helper). When you get the most output that should be where to set it. That would indicate a good transition to the mains. Hopefully without a dip in response.


Thanks! I tried the 50 with tone control up some and it helps but not much. 
I did notice that by going in to manual eq and upping some frequencies for the mains and sub the bass was so right compared to when Audyssey is engaged. 
The issue would be what frequencies to mess with. I've had it with REW. I tried it again tonight and it kept saying no connection for the output. It was connected via hdmi...idk.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm guessing it's in preferences somewhere. Output device maybe? I had to wrestle that myself. Do you have an spl meter, and a way to send test tones? Between a laptop and a cellphone even, with an spl app or tone generator or tones on YouTube etc... My hunch is phase. I had a dip around 50 to 60. Once my phase was dialed, I had more punch since the dip was raised. Tightened up the bass too.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Also on the REW thing. Maybe the headphone jack. Mini to stereo rca. I've never tried hdmi. Hmmmm.....


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

willis7469 said:


> I'm guessing it's in preferences somewhere. Output device maybe? I had to wrestle that myself. Do you have an spl meter, and a way to send test tones? Between a laptop and a cellphone even, with an spl app or tone generator or tones on YouTube etc... My hunch is phase. I had a dip around 50 to 60. Once my phase was dialed, I had more punch since the dip was raised. Tightened up the bass too.


Yes I have an spl meter. I one calibrated without Audyssey and everything sounded dull. At the same time on manual setting with a boost in some of the frequencies it sounded nice. If I use manual eq won't the Audyssey setting not be applied such as speaker lever/distance and sub eq? 
I tried the phase by ear and no change plus won't Audyssey tell me that it's out of phase during the calibration?


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

To me mid-bass resembles the 70-150 range. 

Most of the chest slam bass comes from the 60-90hz range. A specific reason that most kick drums are tuned in this very area.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Talley said:


> To me mid-bass resembles the 70-150 range. Most of the chest slam bass comes from the 60-90hz range. A specific reason that most kick drums are tuned in this very area.


 Exactly why I was wondering about asere's perspective. To me mid bass is like 40-80, and slam comes from like, 25-60. That's why car audio stuff is tuned around 30hz. For the slam! Try a tone generator and see which tones you feel the most. To me 80hz is like a bee buzzing. 20-30 is like moving earth. My own kick drums are tuned with a fundamental of 32hz. Perspective can be a funny thing. Ask my wife!


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

asere said:


> If I use manual eq won't the Audyssey setting not be applied such as speaker lever/distance and sub eq? I tried the phase by ear and no change plus won't Audyssey tell me that it's out of phase during the calibration?


 not sure. The way I understood my manual/osd was that you could adjust certain freq's with Audyssey on. After re-reading I'm not so sure. REW was inconclusive in experimenting with this. I think our older versions of Audyssey are useless compared to xt32/sub eq at phase/integration issues. A manual way is adjusting the subs distance but I think older Audyssey sets distance by how it sees the sub in the room without regard to integration with the mains. Don't know fo sho. Sorry :-(


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## ThrillCity (Jun 20, 2012)

In general I consider 40-60 the "physical chest punch band". I've had continual issues getting solid 100-300 Hz response in room and it takes considerable EQ to tame the 30-60 Hz band as measured. Some day I'll move to gigantic towers that have excessive (handling capabilities) 50 Hz + so I can help distribute the bass and reduce modes.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Interactive Frequency Chart










EDIT: if the image doesn't display above, here is a link..
http://www.independentrecording.net/irn/resources/freqchart/main_display.htm


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Great chart, Glenn! I've seen variations, but really like the interactive "mouse-over" features. An excellent, versatile tool which serves up many facets of human hearing--from a general intro to helping create a house curve. Thanks for sharing! :T :bigsmile:


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I agree, Love that chart. Thanks for posting it. :T


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Talley said:


> To me mid-bass resembles the 70-150 range.
> 
> Most of the chest slam bass comes from the 60-90hz range. A specific reason that most kick drums are tuned in this very area.


Good to know this... seems like some variation, but generally around 50 - 90Hz is likely a good target for tactile chest thumping.



gdstupak said:


> Interactive Frequency Chart
> 
> 
> 
> ...


GREAT chart Glenn! Who knew a harp played down to 30Hz?? Also I learned about contrabassoons. Lol.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Yes, the harp is a surprise. 
Classical music is definitely enhanced with a sub speaker. I don't know why many comment saying the opposite.
I've got music with pipe organ, tuba, and bass/kettle drums that rattle the house!


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## talmadge (May 4, 2010)

gdstupak said:


> Yes, the harp is a surprise. Classical music is definitely enhanced with a sub speaker. I don't know why many comment saying the opposite. I've got music with pipe organ, tuba, and bass/kettle drums that rattle the house!


The answer to more mid bass slam is a properly set up HSU MBM 12mk2


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