# DSOTM



## JoeESP9

Okay. I've tried to listen to this at least three dozen times or more. I've bought it on vinyl, CD and now on SACD. For the life of me I can't figure out what or why this album is such a big deal. It sounds to me like a couple of mediocre jazz musicians having a bad night while spaced out on an OD of smack with some sound effects thrown in for good measure. How or why is this considered to be such a big deal? 

This is really a rhetorical question so I don't expect an actual answer. I do sort of expect a lot of vitriol in response.


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## Jungle Jack

JoeESP9 said:


> Okay. I've tried to listen to this at least three dozen times or more. I've bought it on vinyl, CD and now on SACD. For the life of me I can't figure out what or why this album is such a big deal. It sounds to me like a couple of mediocre jazz musicians having a bad night while spaced out on an OD of smack with some sound effects thrown in for good measure. How or why is this considered to be such a big deal?
> 
> This is really a rhetorical question so I don't expect an actual answer. I do sort of expect a lot of vitriol in response.


Hello,
I do think DSOTM sounds amazing on MCH DSD, but I do prefer Syd Barrett era Piper at the Gates of Dawn and Wish You Were Here.

As for mediocrity, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree on that aspect. I have honestly known far more vitriol directed at the practically Roger Waters solo album The Wall.
Best,
J


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## whitey019

I have to respectfully, totally disagree with you! DSOTM and WYWH are two of my favorite recordings and SACD made them even better.


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## lcaillo

Personally, I thing WYWH is their best album, but DSOTM is a great one as well. Like all music and other forms of art, it may not be something that is appealing to many, but I think they are a couple of my favorites.

No need to be vitriolic, different people like different stuff.


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## robbo266317

I also reflect the opinions stated above. Not everyone is going to like a "classic" album or artist as everyone's tastes are different.
There are people who enjoy Slipknot and Justin Beiber, it doesn't matter as long as _you_ enjoy the experience.

I was going to post Vitriol by Bluejuice - but the language is a bit racy.....


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## Sonnie

I have absolutely worn out a couple of DSOTM discs in my days. I think I have 3-4 more copies that have never been opened. I don't use CD's much any longer, so they may not ever get opened. Nowadays we put most everything on the HDD in the vehicle or on a USB flash drive. I also have several variations of DSOTM on vinyl.

It may be that you would appreciate it more if you grew up listening to the music and maybe had a chance to go to a concert. Then again, my wife hardly knew who Pink Floyd was when we got married in 1984. After giving her a full dose of it on a regular basis at about 130db in my car... and taking her to a concert (Division Bell in 1993-94), she is nearly as avid of a fan as I am. 

DSOTM is not even my favorite album. My favorite is Momentary Lapse Of Reason... I love that album... I love it vastly better than DSOTM. It is loaded with great songs that do wonders for a sound system and my ears. While I think I have every album PF ever produced (I may be missing a few bootlegs), I am more of a David Gilmour era fan. Although I like the older and early music okay, it certainly does not do as much for me as what DSOTM and after has done for me. WYWH is a fabulous album as well. My favorite live album is Delicate Sound Of Thunder.

I can fully understand how someone may not like the music though... it is quite unique and very different. A lot of people like The Rolling Stones, yet there are probably only a couple of their songs that I care anything about at all. I don't own the first CD of theirs... although I may have an old album. I don't care anything for The Beatles. Again, I like a couple of their songs, but don't own a single CD... and I think I have a couple of older albums that I bought back when I was a deejay. This does not mean I do not recognize the significance of these bands and the impact they had and still have on music. I know they have gazillions of fans and I respect those who love and appreciate their music. It is all a matter of what you like... some like it, some don't.

It does kind of surprise me that anyone would listen to it three dozen times or more and purchase it in three different formats before realizing their opinion of it was merely mediocre at best. I think I could have figured that out after a couple of listenings in one format.


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## Sonnie

Who is Justin Beiber? I have heard of Justin Beaver, is that the same guy... really young boy, like 14-15 years old? 


Joe... have you listened to any other Pink Floyd music and if so, do you like it?


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## robbo266317

Sonnie said:


> Who is Justin Beiber? I have heard of Justin Beaver, is that the same guy... really young boy, like 14-15 years old?


Are beavers canadian? I will have to check with Mike P.

Anyway, she must be about 20 now.


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## Jungle Jack

robbo266317 said:


> Are beavers canadian? I will have to check with Mike P.
> 
> Anyway, she must be about 20 now.
> 
> Justin Bieber - Baby - YouTube


Blame Canada. Truly perhaps their worst cultural export. It shall be interesting to see if we gain any of the HTS desired tween HT enthusiast demographic to stand up to this affront of their hero.


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## Sonnie

Yeah... same guy. I suppose he has gotten pretty popular with the young teenage crowd.


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## Albey

I'm an avid listener of all things Floyd. I do prefer WYWH over DSOTM, but not by much. It is very original music and an experience to listen to. 

Pink Floyd is definitely not for everyone, you should see the looks I get from my wife when I blast "echoes" lol, she doesn't really get it. 

Oh and as a Canadian, I sincerely apologize for Justin Beiber.......and Celine Dion............and I guess Nickelback as well.


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## sdurani

JoeESP9 said:


> For the life of me I can't figure out what or why this album is such a big deal.


Because LOTS of people liked it when it first came out and plenty more continue to like it over the decades since. Since there is no objective measure of "good" music (or any art form), the 'big deal' usually comes down to two things: initial popularity and/or ability to endure. 

Same two reasons why Beethoven's music remains popular (for its genre) over 200 years later. Likewise, movies like _'The Wizard of Oz'_. 

BTW, just because something was/is popular doesn't mean you have to like it.


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## Jungle Jack

Albey said:


> I'm an avid listener of all things Floyd. I do prefer WYWH over DSOTM, but not by much. It is very original music and an experience to listen to.
> 
> Pink Floyd is definitely not for everyone, you should see the looks I get from my wife when I blast "echoes" lol, she doesn't really get it.
> 
> Oh and as a Canadian, I sincerely apologize for Justin Beiber.......and Celine Dion............and I guess Nickelback as well.


At least Neil Young absolves you of at least of one of Justin Beiber's Singles. Certainly not an album however.


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## Albey

Jungle Jack said:


> At least Neil Young absolves you of at least of one of Justin Beiber's Singles. Certainly not an album however.


Well we also have Rush, The Guess Who, The Tragically Hip, so all is not lost lol.


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## Jungle Jack

I do appreciate Rush, but you are forgetting Anne Murray!!!!


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## whitey019

Rush will negate a couple of the bad ones.


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## Jungle Jack

Neil Peart is in my personal top 3 favorite Drummers.


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## JoeESP9

Okay guys. I grew up in late 60's and 70's. I graduated from college in 1976 so PF et al are not unfamiliar to me. I helped finance my college education with a combination of bass playing (studio work and several bands) and the old style GI bill. I don't dispute that others like them. I guess I'm trying to understand why. Back then I was regularly attending concerts at the Spectrum and Electric Factory here in Phila. I saw PF at the Spectrum in April of 1972 where/when they performed DSOTM. Unfortunately my memory of that concert is rather hazy. However, many of my memories from that era are hazy.:innocent:

My initial post was prompted by my recent purchase of "Dark" (my third copy, I already had a CD and the original LP) on a hybrid SACD. I had just finished listening to and trying to "get" it when I wrote the thread starter post. So, I'm not trying to "diss" anyone or their taste in music. I'm trying to understand.:nerd:

I'm sure there is something there that I'm not getting. As a piece of music it's popular enough with my peers (age wise) and audiophiles that I feel it's worth the effort on my part to try and understand what I may be missing.:scratch: 

I may be old and resistant to change but I do try.

Anyway, just who is this Jistin Beaver person?!:R

FWIW: I've never been much of a Hendrix fan either!:yikes:


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## robbo266317

Yeah, I have a Hendrix album that my friends raved about... I just cannot get into it. :huh:


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## AudiocRaver

DSOTM is not my favorite Floyd, but I always enjoy tracks when I hear them. As a musician, if in a lifetime of work I could put out one album with that level of creativity and musicianship, I would feel mighty good about it.

As a listener whose personal tastes lean toward that which many consider bizarre, and even "that's not music," I have become forgiving of those who put down the music that I like.:sn:


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## Albey

JoeESP9 said:


> Okay guys. I grew up in late 60's and 70's. I graduated from college in 1976 so PF et al are not unfamiliar to me. I helped finance my college education with a combination of bass playing (studio work and several bands) and the old style GI bill. I don't dispute that others like them. I guess I'm trying to understand why. Back then I was regularly attending concerts at the Spectrum and Electric Factory here in Phila. I saw PF at the Spectrum in April of 1972 where/when they performed DSOTM. Unfortunately my memory of that concert is rather hazy. However, many of my memories from that era are hazy.:innocent:
> 
> My initial post was prompted by my recent purchase of "Dark" (my third copy, I already had a CD and the original LP) on a hybrid SACD. I had just finished listening to and trying to "get" it when I wrote the thread starter post. So, I'm not trying to "diss" anyone or their taste in music. I'm trying to understand.:nerd:
> 
> I'm sure there is something there that I'm not getting. As a piece of music it's popular enough with my peers (age wise) and audiophiles that I feel it's worth the effort on my part to try and understand what I may be missing.:scratch:
> 
> I may be old and resistant to change but I do try.
> 
> Anyway, just who is this Jistin Beaver person?!:R
> 
> FWIW: I've never been much of a Hendrix fan either!:yikes:



Nothing like sitting down with a whisky and cranking some "Wind Cries Mary" But I'm a big fan of Blues and Blues rock


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## JoeESP9

AudiocRaver said:


> DSOTM is not my favorite Floyd, but I always enjoy tracks when I hear them. As a musician, if in a lifetime of work I could put out one album with that level of creativity and musicianship, I would feel mighty good about it.
> 
> As a listener whose personal tastes lean toward that which many consider bizarre, and even "that's not music," I have become forgiving of those who put down the music that I like.:sn:


As a musician and and audiophile I realize I listen to and for different things than the usual audiophile. 

I believe you have nailed what I find so underwhelming about DSOTM and so many other rock and pop favorites. The early 70's was for me when Jazz became my my "go to" music. So PF and many other groups came under the scrutiny of being compared creatively and technically with Jazz musicians who are IMO much more creative and for the most part unarguably much more technically able. 

I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I'm not putting any music down and I'm not trying to denigrate anyone's taste. I'm just trying to understand how and why stuff that to me sounds like mediocre noodling can have such a large following of listeners who laud it's "creativity and musicianship". To me, it's not bad music. It's just kind of boring. 

For a short time I played with a blues oriented band. Although I generally like the blues, playing it nightly quickly became tedious and boring. When I brought a chair on stage to sit in during gigs I realized that I should move on. 

The truth is I have lot of respect for music that I don't like. Getting a negative response is IMO better than no response.


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## AudiocRaver

JoeESP9 said:


> For a short time I played with a blues oriented band. Although I generally like the blues, playing it nightly quickly became tedious and boring. When I brought a chair on stage to sit in during gigs I realized that I should move on.


Had to laugh when I read that. I played in college cover bands, and again more recently for a time, and had that same "I am so bored, what am I doing here?" experience many a time.

It is true there was a lot going on in music through the 70s. I admired PF, and still do, for what they accomplished. For me it was two things: 1) A general sense of freshness and originality, not "way out there" like other bands that I was really taken with at the time - King Crimson, Yes, Todd Rundgren - but they had their thing, and it was different enough to command a portion of my interest and admiration, and still does. And 2) _Those moments_ here and there that made all the rest worthwhile - a perfect guitar solo, a chord change, and harmony, a turn of the lyrics, and there were enough of them for me to keep their music elevated to the Master class.

It sounds like you and I both suffer somewhat from the "ADD Musician" syndrome, my own terminology, that anything gets boring after a while, and you are always searching for something in music to give the creative engine a fresh spin. In that light, most of what seemed exciting at one time becomes ho-hum history, and perhaps you were moving on from PF's music even while it was still happening.

And the Dark Side:bigsmile: of that is how hard it is to keep finding fresh tunes to be turned on by. Good luck with that.:sn:


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## ALMFamily

Jungle Jack said:


> Neil Peart is in my personal top 3 favorite Drummers.


+1 - probably at the top of my list TBH.

And, I understand where you are coming from Joe - I never really got into PF either. Sure, I can listen to it but I just do not "get it". Now, if we want to talk 80's one hit wonders and big hair bands, I got those covered!

I am so ashamed to admit I grew up through the 80's music era - I honestly wonder if anyone would miss the music from that decade. .


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## Sonnie

JoeESP9 said:


> The early 70's was for me when Jazz became my my "go to" music. So PF and many other groups came under the scrutiny of being compared creatively and technically with Jazz musicians who are IMO much more creative and for the most part unarguably much more technically able.


I can't imagine a more technologically and creatively advanced group of musicians than what Pink Floyd has been, particularly in the 70's and 80's. IMO there is not a jazz band that can touch them. Jazz was a genre consisting of numerous individual musicians/singers/bands, while Pink Floyd is a genre in and of themselves. They created instruments and sounds of their own that set them apart from all others. There is simply no comparison in how creative these guys have been. Those who have followed them over the years and have studied their history and their music will see a completely different side of them over just simply listening to their music. I have several books and videos about PF... they were absolutely incredible.



ALMFamily said:


> I am so ashamed to admit I grew up through the 80's music era - I honestly wonder if anyone would miss the music from that decade. .


My wife and I would dearly miss it. The majority of what we listen to is classic rock from the 70's and 80's. I graduated high school in 1980. To me, they don't make rock 'n' roll like they did back then.


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## ALMFamily

Sonnie said:


> I can't imagine a more technologically and creatively advanced group of musicians than what Pink Floyd has been, particularly in the 70's and 80's. IMO there is not a jazz band that can touch them. Jazz was a genre consisting of numerous individual musicians/singers/bands, while Pink Floyd is a genre in and of themselves. They created instruments and sounds of their own that set them apart from all others. There is simply no comparison in how creative these guys have been. Those who have followed them over the years and have studied their history and their music will see a completely different side of them over just simply listening to their music. I have several books and videos about PF... they were absolutely incredible.
> 
> 
> My wife and I would dearly miss it. The majority of what we listen to is classic rock from the 70's and 80's. I graduated high school in 1980. To me, they don't make rock 'n' roll like they did back then.


Oh, I would personally miss it as well - but as I graduated some time after you , I missed some of the early 80's stuff.


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## Sonnie

Yeah... I like a little dose of Disco from the late 70's and early 80's all along, but classic rock is where my favorites will be.


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## JoeESP9

I used to think James Brown's horn section was "the bomb". Then, I heard Sonny Rollins playing St. Thomas. That's when I realized what "chops" are. He's not usually as full of notes as "Bird" was but can be when he wants. For me his playing is nothing short of a master class in the saxophone.

BTW: Chic, A Taste of Honey and Mary Jane girls are some of my guilty pleasures.


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## lcaillo

I'd have to disagree, Sonnie, regarding the musicianship of PF relative to others. There are many whom I believe to be better at most of the things they do as individuals. As a group, however, they are a classic example of a greater whole than the sum of their parts. They have been unique and produced some really classic albums. My favorite overall is WYWH.

As far as musicianship and craftsmanship, many can exceed them, including many jazz, rock, classical, and country musicians. The crew of rock and jazz musicians that rotated through the sessions behind Becker and Fagen of Steely Dan are some of the best. In country you've had folks like Chet Atkins and Vince Gill. You could go on forever finding more skilled musicians. Not many make a better group than PF, however.


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## Sonnie

I don't think you are disagreeing... as I was referring to them as a group, not individuals. However, David Gilmour is spectacular on his own and I would put him up against anyone when it comes being a pure artist and having creativity. The guy is absolutely brilliant. I agree that individually, none of the other members ever impressed me that much. Roger was good on guitar, but he wasn't anything close to David IMO. It is when they came together that they were able to collectively come up with the most unique ideas for sounds that created some truly wonderful masterpieces. 

Naturally everyone has a right to their own opinion... I don't have any issues with what others believe is good or what they might think is better. Personally, I just haven't found any that are better to me. PF has the most unique of sounds I have ever heard. Not saying there are not others out there, but I have not heard them. Yello comes in at a close second for me... another one of those who pretty much have created their own genre, but there is some modern jazz mixed in occasionally. 

On another note: I think DSOTM is maybe one of 3-4 albums that has sold 50 million copies.


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## JoeESP9

lcaillo said:


> I'd have to disagree, Sonnie, regarding the musicianship of PF relative to others. There are many whom I believe to be better at most of the things they do as individuals. As a group, however, they are a classic example of a greater whole than the sum of their parts. They have been unique and produced some really classic albums. My favorite overall is WYWH.
> 
> As far as musicianship and craftsmanship, many can exceed them, including many jazz, rock, classical, and country musicians. The crew of rock and jazz musicians that rotated through the sessions behind Becker and Fagen of Steely Dan are some of the best. In country you've had folks like Chet Atkins and Vince Gill. You could go on forever finding more skilled musicians. Not many make a better group than PF, however.


My feelings mirror yours regarding musicianship and craftsmanship. When I started listening to Jazz in the early 70's the sheer talent exhibited by jazz musicians made me reassess much of my opinion of what being able to truly play an instrument was all about. Holy hot plates Batman! These guys had the chops that classical musicians always exhibited but they could swing! 

IMO and experience very few classical musicians can "swing". For those who are curious, "to swing" musically (while playing), is the ability to play slightly ahead of or behind the beat yet, not play out of time.

I'm going to get a copy of WYWH. I've never really listened to it. I keep hearing good things about it. I hope it impresses me more than DSOTM. I might be old but I'm not stuck on any specific genre, type or style of music.


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## AudiocRaver

Sonnie said:


> ...David Gilmour is spectacular on his own and I would put him up against anyone when it comes being a pure artist and having creativity. The guy is absolutely brilliant.


Throwing in my vote in favor of David Gilmour as one of rock music's great guitarists. It is also easy to agree with the claim that the Comfortably Numb solo is the greatest rock guitar solo of all time. Musicality beats out technical proficiency, and Gilmour's guitar is part of what puts PF in the Master league.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Another aspect of Pink Floyd that is often overlooked is Alan Parsons involvement as an Engineer in many of their most popular EP's. While he departed before The Wall and of course later fronted the eponymous Alan Parsons Project.
Best,
J


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## tesseract

JoeESP9 said:


> I'm going to get a copy of WYWH. I've never really listened to it. I keep hearing good things about it. I hope it impresses me more than DSOTM. I might be old but I'm not stuck on any specific genre, type or style of music.


I have enjoyed this in stereo and will soon be trying it out in surround when I convert my system in the near future. Don't know how the SACD compares to the WYWH Blu-Ray, though.


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## AudiocRaver

This was totally unplanned. I was enjoying a late-night track hopping session and came across the 14-CD box set of Pink Floyd on my server and started track hopping from the beginning, enjoying the oldies from their early work, the really experimental things they were doing, and worked my way up to Dark Side Of The Moon. As soon as it started up I was struck by the feeling that I was hearing something special, particularly in contrast to what had come before. It was like Pink Floyd's work up until that point was so much messing about, and suddenly what they were doing and where they were headed gelled and out came this album, with everything about it, creativity, cohesiveness, musicianship, concept, composition, recording quality, all about three notches higher than what had come before and all at once. So I appreciate it is a great album like I haven't before.

There was a lot of great music happening in the 70s, no doubt. And as far as Pink Floyd is concerned, maybe their best work came after that (and some may still prefer their earliest work), but there is no doubt in my mind that DSOTM elevated them from _pretty good_ to _great._ And it sounds SUPER on a pair of Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.:sn:


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## tesseract

RIP, Storm Thorgerson.

http://consequenceofsound.net/2013/...rson-artist-behind-the-dark-side-of-the-moon/


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## JoeESP9

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Another aspect of Pink Floyd that is often overlooked is Alan Parsons involvement as an Engineer in many of their most popular EP's. While he departed before The Wall and of course later fronted the eponymous Alan Parsons Project.
> Best,
> J


I've never questioned the engineering or the overall sound of an PF release. The music however, for me always has been and is still humdrum noodling by mediocre musicians.


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