# Need some equipment input



## ajwain (Aug 26, 2012)

Long time reader (over a year now) first post. 

I have finally started to build my home theater (helps when the kids leave home, you find you have more time now). And I have the blessing of the wife to build my room. The room will be used mainly for TV (NFL)/Movies. So after much reading I have a few questions I would like to ask the experts here.

The Room:

15x25x7 - the exterior walls have vapor sheeting 2x4 studs (2 sides) the interior walls are 2x4 studs. All wall are in studs only, so I can change anything. The main viewing wall was built on the 25 foot section and has a recess area for a 80" LED TV, and 30 inches depth (Space between the walls).

The Equipment:

Currently own:

1. Sharp 80" 240Hz LED Smart TV.
2. Rack mount Media Server, I7, 16 gig Ram, Blu-ray/DVD, Windows server R8 with XBMC, 16TB Raid, Dual HDMI 1080i outputs, 7.1 audio output. 
3. Lane theater seating (4 in a row) with butt kickers.

Looking to purchase: 

Receiver : Onkyo TX-NR3007, TX-NR3009, or ??? Budget 1200.00

Speakers:

First due to the wife and her fear of the grandkids knocking over the speaker they need to be in/on wall. I have fault this battle and admitting defeat. With that said, there are many choices that I literally talked myself out of purchasing twice so far. Below are my likes, just looking for another view point.

Mains: 
1. Definitive Technology RLS III
2. Axiom M22 on/in Wall
3. Klipsch R-5502-W-II or KL-6502-THX
4. Proficient Audio IW650 (I can purchase these for cost thru the company I work for)
5. or ??? Was looking at Atlantic Tech, but thought the Definitive sounded better.

Center:
1. Definitive Technology RLS III
2. Axiom VP150 on/in wall
3. Klipsch R-5502-W-II or KL-6502-THX
4. Proficient Audio IW650
5. or ??? 

Surround:
1. Definitive Technology RSS III
2. Axiom QS8
3. Klipsch R-5650-W-II or KL-R-2650-W
4. Proficient Audio IW550 
5. or ??? 

Rears:
1. Definitive Technology UIW BP/A
2. Axiom M2 on/in Wall
3. Klipsch R-5800-W-II or KL-R-2650-W II
4. Proficient Audio IW525
5. or ??? 

Sub:
1. Definitive Technology Super Cube 4000 or two ProSub 1000
2. Axiom EP500
3. Klipsch KW-120 or two SW-110
4. Proficient Audio PS12
5. or ??? 

My wire from Monoprice comes Wednesday, and I am wiring for 11.4 (future proof, even running one empty 1" innerduct to every location and TV). So I have at least a month or so to figure the equipment out.

Thanks in advance.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

ajwain said:


> Long time reader (over a year now) first post.
> 
> I have finally started to build my home theater (helps when the kids leave home, you find you have more time now). And I have the blessing of the wife to build my room. The room will be used mainly for TV (NFL)/Movies. So after much reading I have a few questions I would like to ask the experts here.
> 
> ...


Hello,
Welcome formally to HTS. For the AVR, I would look at the 3008, 3009, and 3010 as all three offer Audyssey MultEQ XT32 along with SubEQ HT.

As for speakers, Newegg has a fantastic deal on the Klipsch Icon WC-35 for $900 off a pair at $600 a pair. Use them for Mains and Surrounds, use the matching Icon WC-24 for $199 ($499 MSRP) and a HSU Research VTF-2 MKIV for $549 and you would have a great sounding 5.1 array.

Here is a link to the WC-35's:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780082
WC-24:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780086
VTF-2 MKIV: http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2mk4.html

I really think the Icons are really nice looking Speakers and offer an Furniture Grade Wood Veneer. For $50 more you can get a Cabernet Finish as opposed to the Espresso Finish.
Cheers,
JJ


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## ajwain (Aug 26, 2012)

Would love to have floor standing speakers. But the only requirement from the wife has on this project is that the speakers are on/in wall speakers. :huh: I have plenty of room to flush mount the WF-35 and WC-24 into the wall, but it would kill the rear reflection of the speaker.

Will look into the 3008, 3009, and 3010. The HSU VTF-2 MK4 looks to have solid specs. I am adding to my growing list of possibilities.

Thanks for the reply.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

If WAF dictates no floorstanders for grand kid safety, here is an option. Take a 2' x 2' piece of plywood and cover it with your matching carpet. Screw up through the plywood to the speaker spike mounting location. You would find it difficult to tip it over yourself, and impossible if you arms are so short that you have to stand on the plywood to reach the speaker. End of safety issue. And bang for the buck this would likely sound better than anything you hang on a wall.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

phreak said:


> If WAF dictates no floorstanders for grand kid safety, here is an option. Take a 2' x 2' piece of plywood and cover it with your matching carpet. Screw up through the plywood to the speaker spike mounting location. You would find it difficult to tip it over yourself, and impossible if you arms are so short that you have to stand on the plywood to reach the speaker. End of safety issue. And bang for the buck this would likely sound better than anything you hang on a wall.


That is a great idea!


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

I'll be brief..., look at Audio Advisor. They have great prices on everything they sell. Some last years models, some demo's etc., etc. http://www.audioadvisor.com/ 

I like Phreaks solution idea and when they get bigger add cleats to the side of the speaker cabinets and additional screws from underneath the plywood and make the plywood 4' x 4' ha ha ha 

If it can be broken..., it will.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

FYI,
After giving the plywood base idea a little more thought I am wondering..., if the cabinet has a single thickness bottom I absolutely would "not" attach anything to it. That piece of plywood gives the grand-kids an awful lot of leverage to tear out the bottom of the cabinet. However if you were to look inside and add to its structure with reinforcement where needed you could make this work.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Gregr said:


> FYI,
> After giving the plywood base idea a little more thought I am wondering..., if the cabinet has a single thickness bottom I absolutely would "not" attach anything to it. That piece of plywood gives the grand-kids an awful lot of leverage to tear out the bottom of the cabinet. However if you were to look inside and add to its structure with reinforcement where needed you could make this work.


Hello,
I believe what Phreak is discussing attaching the Plywood to the pre-cut holes where the Speaker Spikes would otherwise be screwed in. As these holes are threaded for Screws and are reinforced with metal.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jon67 (Jul 8, 2008)

I'm curious as to which Atlantic Technology speakers you listened to. I myself didn't love them for many years because I listened to a couple of their small entry level systems being over driven in huge rooms. Once I used some of their larger systems and properly set them up I found them hard to beat. 4200e series and up are excellent and for in-walls the THX Select and Ultra models are hard to beat. Great option for putting your subs into the walls as well!

Do you have another spot that you could use your 80" flat panel in order to go with a projector instead. At the very least I'd recommend wiring a projector location and screen location for this option in the future. For the price of an 80" flat panel you can get a better picture in the 100"+ family.

Onkyo receivers are great for the money, tons of features and rarely any problems!

Have you given any thought to turning your room 90 degrees? You could build a baffle wall to mount you in-walls in to help acoustic and have more options with seating layout and other activities in the room behind the viewing area. It's generally easier to deal with and design deeper rooms then wider ones.

I recommend Ruxol sound insulation as well as QuietRock drywall products. Ruxol also works great for make your own absorption panels.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Sorry JJ I am not without years of experience in this area. 

Holding "up" the weight of the cabinet is exactly the opposite function of holding the cabinet "down" against the weight of the grandchild and whatever force he/she is applying and/or a friend or family using the cabinet as a leaning post. Unfortunately, it looks OK and it will be..., until the day it isn't enough. Sorry for the waf disposition and lack of support but these are the facts. 7 ply birch plywood would not last in this type of application but it would take more than a thumb and index finger to push it over... 

An old adage I learned from an older cabinetmaker 40yrs ++ ago, "If it can be broken..., it will". I have lived and contracted using that principal. I have never had a call-back because something I designed and fabricated had failed. 

Regards


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Gregr said:


> Sorry JJ I am not without years of experience in this area.
> 
> Holding "up" the weight of the cabinet is exactly the opposite function of holding the cabinet "down" against the weight of the grandchild and whatever force he/she is applying and/or a friend or family using the cabinet as a leaning post. Unfortunately, it looks OK and it will be..., until the day it isn't enough. Sorry for the waf disposition and lack of support but these are the facts. 7 ply birch plywood would not last in this type of application but it would take more than a thumb and index finger to push it over...
> 
> ...


Not saying you are not with experience. Rather, just trying to communicate the Phreak's idea. That being said, the speakers could be screwed into any material, but that does not seem to pass muster. Pity as the SQ advantages over In Walls is huge. Check out dmc-electronics.com for PSB In Walls. They are 50% off and are quite good for what they are


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I would not recess the TV into an alcove.
I would have floor standing speakers.
This is not really about speakers getting knocked over, its about how you are going to allow the grand kids to behave in your home.
I am not childless so I am not speaking from a position of inexperience.
Raised kids, had many little kids in my home over the years.
I know it is not in vogue to have rules of conduct anymore but it really is as simple as having rules for acceptable behavior and enforcing them.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Chas, No Comment...


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## Jon67 (Jul 8, 2008)

Don't be swayed from in-walls. They can sound great if installed right and it sounds like you've got plenty of installation flexibility. It's not like you'd ever be sitting in a theater thinking "my room would sound so much better if only my speakers were not mounted in the wall". Not to mention it can allow for a much cleaner install and make your wife happy. You may personally decide that you want to use the room for more then theater someday and you'll be glad that you fave all your floor space to make it multi-purpose while keeping your theater performance intact.


it's all in the planning!


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## showcattleguy (Jun 30, 2011)

Maybe we are looking at this wrong... There are plenty of floorstanding speakers that easily weigh over 100 lbs each. For instance it took 3 guys myself included to get our 802 Diamonds upstairs and with the carpet spikes on there isn't a person on my block who could walk them a few inches let alone tip them over. I just thought I would try a different angle as floorstanders are ideal in almost any environment in my opinion. I hope that makes sense


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## ajwain (Aug 26, 2012)

Thank you everyone for all the responses. I really do appreciate all the feedback. I travel for work, and currently in the middle of nowhere, so internet access is spotty at best and I apologies for not responding sooner.

Jungle Jack - I did look into the Onkyo's you recommended and based on the research I took your recommendation and purchased the Onkyo 3010. As for the floor mount speakers, it's not going to happen. The plywood/carpet is a great idea, but will not work for this room. If I could have floor mounts I would have gladly moved my ML spires from my office to be the mains (probably not). 

The room is going to be used by all (adults and kids), and yes the kids have to behave, but kids will be kids and in a Wii game of boxing that sometime does get out of hand why introduce obstacles when it can be avoided (that is my wife's thinking. Which is not all that incorrect). Funny part, I am more worried about the adults than the kids when it come to Wii.

I have continued to do more research on in-walls, and would like to know if anyone has any input on the HSU HIW-1 in-wall speaker. Specs look good, and looking to pair with the VTF-2 MK4 that Jungle Jack recommended, does not look like a bad setup.

I had a chance to listen to the DT RSL III, Kilpsch 5502, and the Proficient IW650 before I left. For me the DT sounded best overall, but it did not sound $2000.00 better than the Proficient. BTW, If money was not an issue, the ML Edge sounded amazing. 

The recessed area for the LED TV: The 80" LED is actually going to be flush with the wall itself, just the mount and wires are recessed. Being a large screen in only a 6'8" finished ceiling height the appearance of the room looked much cleaner with the LED flush mounted than surface mounted. Also you have no connections showing from the side which can be seen when entering the room.

Again thank you all for the input. It is helping my sort through this build, and I really do appreciate the feedback.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

ajwain said:


> Thank you everyone for all the responses. I really do appreciate all the feedback. I travel for work, and currently in the middle of nowhere, so internet access is spotty at best and I apologies for not responding sooner.
> 
> Jungle Jack - I did look into the Onkyo's you recommended and based on the research I took your recommendation and purchased the Onkyo 3010. As for the floor mount speakers, it's not going to happen. The plywood/carpet is a great idea, but will not work for this room. If I could have floor mounts I would have gladly moved my ML spires from my office to be the mains (probably not).
> 
> ...


Hello,
Congrats on the 3010. Audyssey XT32 in tandem with SubEQ HT is utterly brilliant and I really think you are going to be quite pleased with it. In Wall's are amazingly popular and just to be clear all I was trying to do was getting across Phreak's idea. It certainly was not a referendum on the subject.

I am quite fond of HSU's In Wall's and think they would be especially good for HT as they are Horn Loaded. For all around performance, I would still probably go with the PSB M6x6.1 as it uses dual 6.5 drivers and features a coaxial mounted tweeter. DMC has them for 50% and are now $100 less than the HSU's. In addition, the PSB's are rated down to 45hz as opposed to 60hz on the HSU's. While I would guess they will be crossed over at 80hz, I do think the PSB's will offer a bit more output and Paul Barton is one of the most talented Loudspeaker Designers out there. While Dr. Hsu is one of my favorite Subwoofer Designers, I do prefer PSB for loudspeakers.

Somewhat splitting the middle, have you considered On Wall Speakers? Artison makes some quite fantastic speakers and one of my closest friends has used them since he has had children. He also happens to be a Professional Horn Player, owns a Recording Studio, and is an excellent Piano and Guitar Player. I have known him since I was 5 and amazingly we both purchased Paradigm Monitor 7's on the same day our freshman year at college. It was the first day for both of us and we attended different schools and neither of us had discussed it. For around 10 years, we were constantly getting deeper and deeper into 2 Channel and HT. I suppose my meandering point is he truly has excellent ears and spent months deliberating about what In or Walls to get and went with the Artisons. 

As he was going from Dunlavy SC-IVa's, I was beyond spurious. However, I must say I was honestly shocked at how good the sound. While I still prefer the Thiel Powerpoints, the Artisons are quite close and a bit cheaper. While that is somewhat relative I suppose, I think these are the best possible solutions I have come across.
Cheers,
Jack


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## ajwain (Aug 26, 2012)

I think I found my speaker setup, Thoughts?

LR - http://www.axiomaudio.com/m80-in-cabinet-speakers.html
C - http://www.axiomaudio.com/vp180-in-cabinet-speakers.html

Is the VP180 overkill and maybe should I look at the VP150?

Side/Rears - http://www.axiomaudio.com/m3-in-wall-speakers.html#t-3

Sub - http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html

Was going to go dual, but with the M80 coming in at 25 - 34 Hz, I don't think i am going to need a 2nd sub. 

What do you think about the EP500 sub? The wife likes it because its an in-cabinet, Specs look good, thoughts? http://www.axiomaudio.com/ep500-in-cabinet-subwoofer.html#t-3

Before you ask, the wall space is not an issue, I have 24" between the walls.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Although I have never owned Axiom speakers, I have read several good reviews. Did you have a chance to hear them at all? If not, be sure to check into their return policy just in case they are not the sound you are looking for.

As far as the sub, I would probably not go with the EP500 - for the cost, you could do 2 HSU subs and get smoother response.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Joes words are well chosen. You do not know what Axiom speakers will sound like in your home. A quick listen in a small space with modified/improved acoustics could indicate potential. looking at the speakers I will quess a very complex crossover 3.5 or 4 or 4.5 way speaker crossover system with enough speakers to fill any room..., but how/with what. I wonder how many compromises are involved with a crossover this complex and how much wiggle room you have in whatever room you listen..., I'll be very interested to see an REW test run.
I'm learning to like Onkyo though. I am sure amplification won't be the concern if any at all. These speakers could sound better in your home than it did in the show room..., with a little work.


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## ajwain (Aug 26, 2012)

The axiom speakers should be here is 2 to 3 weeks. :yay: After talking with Axiom, I do have a 30 day review period that i can send back for any reason. 
I found an Axiom owner locally (he had the M80 in cabinet with the VP180 on a pedestal) and they sounded awesome in his setup. He also had the EP800 (which is out of my price range), so I had him turn off the sub woofer so i could listen to the front three, and If my sound as good as his did, I will be keeping my axiom's past the 30 day trial.

Need input on a sub. I have narrowed it down to two:

PSA - XV15 (http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xv15)
HSU - VFT-15h (http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html)

Anyone have any thoughts? 

PSA is new, but I am not one to shy away from new. The PSA reviews seem to be good so far, their customer service seems to be top notch, and I like the fact that it is mostly American made.

HSU everyone recommends (which says something in itself).


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

I have Axiom M80's and the VP180 and through several reviews of different subs coupled with my system, I personally think the Chase VS-18.2 sound absolutely phenomenal if you have the space and time to set them up properly.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Congrats on the Axioms!

As far as subs, I honestly think you would be pleased with either - as well as the sub that Dale mentioned. You can check out the review Dale wrote up on the Chase subs for more info.


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