# My CHT impressions



## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

Hey guys, I have a long thread at both the CHT forums and other forums so I figure I would bring it here as well, some of it at least. You guys might remember I built the 8 sealed eD subs in the DIY section. Anyways, I purchased 4 SS 18.2's and use a FP10000Q clone amp with them. This amp provides 2100 watts per channel into 4 channels or each sub. I am using BFM DR-200's for my speakers and 4 wedge 6's for my surrounds. They are crossed over at 150hz using the SS 18.2's as my midbass. The bass is just great with accuracy and punch. They dig really deep and the extra power from the amp helps quite a bit. This system I have put together is the most dynamic and detailed yet and I have gone through many! This is my favorite bass setup to date and for those you have followed me know I have tried many different systems including the best tapped horns, awesome folded horns, great ported subs, and other sealed subs. I ran some sweeps and distortion graphs when I had the Dayton amps but I have not run distortion graphs with the more powerful amp yet. Here are some pics of the past and present including some graphs. The most recent graphs are from omnimic and the older ones are from REW. I have a Behringer DCX right now so I am going to run REW once again with my calibrated behringer mic. Stay tuned!

The THD went to 10% at 110 dBs.










Here is a sweep without any EQ










Some EQ










More cuts










I want to take new THD graphs with the new mic as the old one was with the RS meter.

Here are some pics of the room and speakers.


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## dduval (Feb 26, 2012)

MK,

That is just fantastic. Outstanding setup. I just can't imagine the low end you are getting in that room.
The extension out to 5hz is very impressive! Looking forward to your new results with the DCX...I certainly hope you have taken steps to prevent structural damage...:T


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## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

Nice extension!

I didn't know that you were using BFM DR-200's for my speakers. That's interesting.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

Yes, I had a huge speaker shootout and these were my favorite. I should bring that over here as well.


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

I do like the 200s, and there are a lot of local builders around if you don't want to build them yourself. I ended up going with Sho10s instead because of the size.


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## MUCHO (Aug 26, 2006)

What about these subs makes it your favorite set up thus far? I've read a variety of your subjective feelings over the years and to put these above all others is high praise?

Is it impact? Extension?


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

MUCHO said:


> What about these subs makes it your favorite set up thus far? I've read a variety of your subjective feelings over the years and to put these above all others is high praise?
> 
> Is it impact? Extension?


My favorite for Midbass were my folded horn 18's I used to have, they set the standard. My favorite for low end subjectively were the Danley's but the eD's measured better. The CHT's measure like the eD's, same Midbass as the folded horns, and very close to that low end subjective feel of the Danley's. They just do more things right as an all in one. If I could only own 2 subs it would be the Danley's or a DIY variant.


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## sbdman (Dec 21, 2008)

It's been great to follow your HT history and evolving, growing improvements in your sound perfection endeavors. All the traps and acoustic treatments turned out looking great, and that sound stage behind the screen looks as formidable as one could enjoy! I think you've pulled out all the stops, but can't wait to see where you might go from here.

Thanks for all the tweaks past, and tweaks to come (DCX). It's a blast of a journey following you.

Now, I'd just like to dream of sitting in one of your recliners and watching the pod sequence...


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

sbdman said:


> It's been great to follow your HT history and evolving, growing improvements in your sound perfection endeavors. All the traps and acoustic treatments turned out looking great, and that sound stage behind the screen looks as formidable as one could enjoy! I think you've pulled out all the stops, but can't wait to see where you might go from here.
> 
> Thanks for all the tweaks past, and tweaks to come (DCX). It's a blast of a journey following you.
> 
> Now, I'd just like to dream of sitting in one of your recliners and watching the pod sequence...


Thanks, I just like to share my fun!


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## dduval (Feb 26, 2012)

MK,

Question...what movie is your fav as far as low end? I mean the one that really freaked you out because it was so low...

I ask because I just watched "Pulse" chapter 15 & on my measly system (compared to yours  ) And the part that goes between 15hz and 20hz was something. A couple seconds I couldn't hear anything, just the room shaking...

Can't imagine what it would be like on your system!


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

There are a few actually. WOTW, Cloverfield, Tron, FOTP, TIH to name a few.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

OK, I finally got around to trying out the DCX. The manual was confusing me so I put it down and started to tinker with the front panel. I just want to say this thing is very simple to use once you figure out how to navigate the buttons. Anyways, I had a very loud hum no matter what I tried and I ran some REW sweeps gettings things dialed in. I put in Tron and let it rip and sure enough once the Bluray started the hum went away and it was dead silent! Thank goodness! So I did not get the computer link to work but I was running a sweep, changing an EQ parameter, running another sweep, and done. Since I used the DCX which works with REW I pulled out my calibrated Behinger Mic with mobile pre sound card and check things out. I will show you my LP raw response and then my EQ. I will also show my EQ and omnimic graph and my RS meter with correction files graph and see how close everything is. OK, here we go.

Raw response with Behringer MIC










EQ










Now EQ with omnimic










And finally EQ with RS meter with correction files










What I got from all this is that my RS meter with correction files was not that far off! MY Behringer mic was calibrated to a very expensive mic so is probably the most accurate but every graph is +/- 4 dBs from 7hz and up! The RS was from 6 dB's which you can't tell a difference anyways.


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## DeeJayBump (Apr 14, 2008)

Thanks for the graphs, MK. Must be a pretty awesome HT experience to have in-room extension to below 10Hz like that.

Looking forward to experiencing that at some point.


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

Thanks for the review and graphs. Wow, your readings are great. I can't even imagine how much your house rumbles from LFE. What you have below 10 is awesome. 
Congrats on a great setup.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

NEW GRAPHS

OK, I redid my graphs and I will show the raw response but this time the mic was about ear height in the middle of the center row rather than above my head at my LP which is left center seat(4 seats in the front). This raw graph is what omnimic was showing as well.










Now I added my LP EQ at 45hz with a 5 dBs gain and a slope of 12 dBs per octave and then I ran the EQ on REW with the DCX selected. This gave me about 6 filters to flatten my curve so 7 filters in all. What is great is that I just had to copy the info from REW directly to the DCX. Very simple!

Here is my graph and I am +/- 3 dBs from 7-100hz!










I then turned it up 10dBs










Do you guys think this is better than my last attempt?


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## sbdman (Dec 21, 2008)

For some reason, I really like the looks of your Behringer mike results more than the Omni. Don't know if it's the smoothing, scale, or low end response, but the latest responses just look more realistic. I think the DCX handles the 20 to 10 Hz range a lot better.

If I could ask a couple questions;

1. "House curve" - you say you run 10 dB hot, how do you do it? Just up the gain on the 10000Q (4 pots) or through receiver setting (trim sub out)? 

2. How might you grade the sound of a sharp hpf at 15 or 10 hz to your setup? Doub't you've tried it and I know of your quest for single digit response, but would like to hear of the *below* "ultra bass response - 20 Hz" effects you've felt. 
This part, I'm wishing I've experienced the most. Although ultra bass is great, somehow below ultra must be a real experience? 

There is a thread on this forum that suggests you should ditch anything below 20 Hz. I don't buy it - maybe this was true before amps couldn't produce more than 1000 (much less that 10,000) watts.


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## Sphinx (Feb 29, 2012)

MK,

Truly amazing. Could you give the dimensions of room?

Would you do a full sweep? I am a little confused by your first post and then some of the graphs. Mainly, you state that the DR-200s are crossed over at 150 Hz, but when looking at the response of the SS18.2s, it appears that they are down ~30 dB at 150 Hz. Maybe I am reading this all wrong?

Thanks in advance.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

I also believe the behringer mic is the most accurate and I did not use any smoothing. I am going to try different things and run a full range sweep as well.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

My room is 21x15.


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## Technosponge (Oct 28, 2011)

MK what sound card are you using and do you think the radio Shack meter is at all worth it or just as well get Behringer. I am using minidsp and would like to do calibration similar to yours as you make it sound simple.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

The behringer is better for sure but the RS digital meter can work. It can be Calibrated as well. I am using the mobile pre sound card. All I did was just buy what was linked in my thread so my new graphs would not be questioned to death anymore. Besides most trusted responses use this setup anyways. I don't k ow why the guys thought I would make stuff up anyways because the absolute values did not means as much as the comparisons with same gear.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

In case you guys are wondering I have owned many different systems within the last 7 years and I wanted to rank them in order of preference. Now remember this is just my opinion and not facts! Some speakers did things better than others rated higher but I like dynamics, detail, and big sound over everything else when it comes to movies. 

Ok guys since my shootout is over I just wanted to rank them from 1 on down and I will include some older speakers since I had them head to head against my 5000's before. 

1. DR-200's
2. JBL 4675
3. JBL 3722N
4. eD cinema 12 upgraded
5. JTR triple 8 sealed
6. CHT SHO-10's
7. JTR triple 8 originals
8. M&K S-5000's
9. KL-650's
10. Triad in room LCR gold classics

Now this is my preference for reference level movie watching where I value big dynamic sound with detail over everything else. Many of the speakers had better highs than the JBLs but their big dynamic sound was just hard to ignore! Now their lack luster highs do make them not as good for music and I will rate them for music now. I am talking 100 dBs for music because above that the triads would fall apart which means 112 dBs at the speaker.

1. DR-200's
2. triads
3. JTR sealed triple 8's
4. eD cinema 12 upgraded
5. CHT SHO-10's
6. M&K S-5000
7. JTR original triple 8
8. JBL 4675
9. JBL 3722n
10. Klipsch KL-650

I am now focusing my energy on subs again and will be trying out a couple different subs to dethrone my current system. My current system is my favorite and having EQ and much better measuring gear helped get a proper response and much more low end so I did not have the chance to compare my eD system using the same. As of right now I will rank my favorite sub systems I have owned but know that my most recent setup has the flattest response, deepest, with the most power. I could have changed my mine with the same equipment on my older subs and why I will try some other stuff out. Anyways here we go.

1. 8x18 sealed CHT 
2. Dual Danley DTS-10's
3. 8x18 eD sealed 
4. 4 Cinema F-20's
5. 4 eD LLT sonos
6. Dual folded horn 18 pro subs
7. Dual double 18 vented pro subs
8. SVS 16-46 CS plus subs
9. Klipsch THX ultra 2 subs
10. SVS PB2plus
11. M&K MX-5000's 

I know I could have done more with the eD sealed system with my EQ and such so now I have different subs coming to try out! BTW, it will be sealed from now on as I get the widest bandwidth as I am flat from 7-200hz with my system now so I won't chance losing the bandwidth. The Danley's did some awesome bass waves that none ever did until last night when I boosted my 10-20hz region and now I get the same effect. If the eD system did the same thing it would have been ranked higher because it did more tactile and visceral effects than the DTS-10's but not that pulse which was very cool and shocking. They were the only subs to ever do it until I figured out where it was happening so I am sure I could do it with the eD system. BTW the top 5 systems I ranked are much better than the bottom, not even close!


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

MK - That is one impressive list you have compiled. Thank you again for all your efforts in this hobby!


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

craigsub said:


> MK - That is one impressive list you have compiled. Thank you again for all your efforts in this hobby!


Thank you! The best part of it is that I had a whole 5.1 to 7.1 of these speakers except the SHO-10's and the eD cinemas which I only had the front stage!


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## dsully444 (Apr 10, 2008)

MKs contribution to these forums is much appreciated. I hope in time that I have 1/100 the knowledge he has of subs. I also hope in time that I have the time to pick out and test multiple options to find the one that sounds best to me. The one thing that I do know is that CHT will be the first place that I look for my gear as the value is excellent. I have Sho-10s and love them.


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## gperkins_1973 (Aug 25, 2008)

Im excited to see you value the cinema ED 12's with the modified driver up there.


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

gperkins_1973 said:


> Im excited to see you value the cinema ED 12's with the modified driver up there.


They are a very nice speaker.


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## DanK (Feb 27, 2012)

Mk could u pm. Me please


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

You can also contact him at http://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/


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## DanK (Feb 27, 2012)

Thanks Engtaz that's the problem sighed up over there 2 most ago. And nobody activated my account so I can't post.email them twice no reply. Could someone pm Craig and tell him. Same name as on here. Thank you. 
Did MK sell all his ss18.2s yet?


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## MUCHO (Aug 26, 2006)

DanK said:


> Did MK sell all his ss18.2s yet?


It does not appear so although if you're not local I personally would be wary of shipping such a beast.


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## DanK (Feb 27, 2012)

And I forgot those don't have grills.I'll call Craig and see when his new batch will b done.thanks


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## mktheater (May 1, 2007)

2 left and no grills. $1200 shipped for 2.


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## DanK (Feb 27, 2012)

thanks MK thats a good deal. somebody will pick um up :unbelievable:


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## Diamonddelts (Jan 28, 2011)

Great thread MK. Thanks for the detailed feedback.


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