# HT Setup 101: Cables to projector??



## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

I am setting up HT, and right now have some of ceiling opened up to run HDMI to projector (power coming in from another wall, over ceiling, parallel to joists from unfinished room, so that was easy).

Projector, of course, has several inputs. I just want to make sure I'm not missing something before I get the ceiling closed back up in a few weeks...I plan to have Blu-Ray, DirecTV, and Xbox (or similar) as my video sources. They'll run into a Marantz prepro.

All I need from prepro to projector is the one HDMI, right?? Very, very basic, but just want to make sure I'm not missing something, and have a DOH! moment later on.

Thanks,

Dustin


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

The HDMI is the only cable you will need, if your receiver/pre/processor will convert all your inputs to HDMI out. If you have say a game console that only has analog video out that goes to your receiver, make sure your receiver will upscale to HDMI and not only out put analog video, coax or optical.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

Wardsweb said:


> The HDMI is the only cable you will need, if your receiver/pre/processor will convert all your inputs to HDMI out. If you have say a game console that only has analog video out that goes to your receiver, make sure your receiver will upscale to HDMI and not only out put analog video, coax or optical.


OK, good. Going with Marantz AV7005 as my processor. I shall proceed.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I pulled one of each to my projector just in case, but the only one that gets used is HDMI. If your projector has two HDMI inputs, you may want to pull two HDMI cables. One example where you might want the second one is an Oppo blu ray player. It has two HDMI outputs, one for the AV receiver, and one for connection directly to the display.


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Make sure your cable run is through a conduit with a pull string, so that you'll be able pull another cable or additional cables at a later date.

If "future proofing" is more appropriate for your circumstances, install at least one Cat6 ethernet cable.

Depending on the distance, people often have problems getting a good signal to projectors over long HDMI cables (ones more than 25 feet long). Since they are digital, poor signals cause dropouts and "sparklies", not blurry images. Often called Baluns, HDMI to Cat6 converters are frequently used when long distances are involved. Other options include Monoprice's Redmere cables, which have built-in HDMI extender electronics.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

selden said:


> Make sure your cable run is through a conduit with a pull string, so that you'll be able pull another cable or additional cables at a later date.
> 
> If "future proofing" is more appropriate for your circumstances, install at least one Cat6 ethernet cable.
> 
> Depending on the distance, people often have problems getting a good signal to projectors over long HDMI cables (ones more than 25 feet long). Since they are digital, poor signals cause dropouts and "sparklies", not blurry images. Often called Baluns, HDMI to Cat6 converters are frequently used when long distances are involved. Other options include Monoprice's Redmere cables, which have built-in HDMI extender electronics.


selden, thanks, I'll do that. Looks like monoprice has 30' for just under $5. I have 30' of BJC Belden Series-1 on it's way, and was a little worried about your mentioned HDMI long run issues (Series-1 certified to 25', and BJC has claims of 100' with no issues). And I trust them, but...better safe than sorry for $5...plus the price of converters if it comes to that.

Now I need to find flexible conduit. 

Dustin


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

selden said:


> Make sure your cable run is through a conduit with a pull string, so that you'll be able pull another cable or additional cables at a later date.
> 
> If "future proofing" is more appropriate for your circumstances, install at least one Cat6 ethernet cable.
> 
> Depending on the distance, people often have problems getting a good signal to projectors over long HDMI cables (ones more than 25 feet long). Since they are digital, poor signals cause dropouts and "sparklies", not blurry images. Often called Baluns, HDMI to Cat6 converters are frequently used when long distances are involved. Other options include Monoprice's Redmere cables, which have built-in HDMI extender electronics.


...And are there any issues running HDMI, Cat6, and RG6 (it's hitching a ride from an adjacent room to my AV wall) in same conduit??


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dusdau said:


> ...And are there any issues running HDMI, Cat6, and RG6 (it's hitching a ride from an adjacent room to my AV wall) in same conduit??


No sir. As long as you do not run line voltage with them, you should be good to go.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I would also run a Cat6 cable to the projector as there may be the possibility of sending firmware updates and possible video over it as well. For the cost its worth it.


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Note that the networking would have to be on a separate cat6 cable from one that's a potential (dedicated) carrier of HDMI. The HDMI-over-ethernet solutions that I've seen are quite a bit more expensive than can be afforded by most home users.

I hope that conduit is big!


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

selden said:


> Note that the networking would have to be on a separate cat6 cable from one that's a potential (dedicated) carrier of HDMI. The HDMI-over-ethernet solutions that I've seen are quite a bit more expensive than can be afforded by most home users.
> 
> I hope that conduit is big!


If I run HDMI and Cat6 (I'll also have RG6 and 'subwoofer cable' taking same route to projector, but then going on to another location), is that sufficient?? HDMI is a 30' run of the BJC Belden Series-1. I could use the Cat6, then, for the firmware upgrades. 

Why can't I use the same Cat6 cable if I was using it for HDMI, and needed to use it really quick for an update? Just curious.

Still debating the conduit. The horizontal run is almost 15 feet, and there are joists perdendicular every 16". Man...three days ago I imagined the solo HDMI to the projector, and that was it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Personally I dont see any need for the "subwoofer cable" With the Analog sunset already past us you will see less and less need for any sort of analog video signal.


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

dusdau,

In principle you could use the same cable for both if you're very careful. You'd have to disconnect both ends from one type of signal before connecting the other. The networking and HDMI electrical signals are not compatible with one another.

tonyvdb,

I'm confused: what would a subwoofer cable have to do with analog sunset? 

The need to deliver a subwoofer audio channel preamp output from a receiver (or pre/pro) to a powered subwoofer isn't going away. I assume that running it through the same conduit would just be a convenience so one could place a subwoofer in the opposite end of the room from the electronics without running yet another conduit between the two locations


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Personally I dont see any need for the "subwoofer cable" With the Analog sunset already past us you will see less and less need for any sort of analog video signal.


tonyvdb, can you elaborate on that? Maybe that's a noob question. Cable I got is an RCA terminated RG6 from monoprice.

Dustin


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

What are you thinking you need that cable for? You did say your running it to the projector in an earlier post.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> What are you thinking you need that cable for? You did say your running it to the projector in an earlier post.


tonyvdb, it's just running the same horizontal path to near the projector, then going on to the unfinished side of an adjacent wall in case I decide to put my sub on that wall. Then if I use it, I'll feed it through a wall plate to the sub.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok got it  Yup you will still need that for the subwoofer to work and as its analog it wont interfere with a digital signal in any way.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> I would also run a Cat6 cable to the projector as there may be the possibility of sending firmware updates and possible video over it as well. For the cost its worth it.


I am running a Cat6, but just trying to give myself as many 'outs' as reasonable...I could run firmware updates from my tablet (has USB port) to projector (whether USB or ethernet port via adapter)?


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

dusdau,

Most devices which use a USB connection to get their firmware updates require the USB device to emulate a disk drive: the firmware would be provided as a file on that disk which the projector would read. 

If your projector supports firmware updates via USB (not all do), you probably could not connect your tablet directly to the projector. Instead you'd plug a USB thumb drive to the tablet, download the firmware by way of the tablet to the thumb drive, then plug the thumb drive into the projector. 

Also, many sites providing downloadable firmware updates include them in Zip files which have to be expanded before they are written to a thumb drive. Check the Web site of your projector's manufacturer for that detail. You might have to get Zip or unZip (or a compatible utility) for your tablet.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Personally I dont see any need for the "subwoofer cable" With the Analog sunset already past us you will see less and less need for any sort of analog video signal.


tonyvdb,

Doing more research, and coincidentally, ran across your 'analog sunset' reference concerning Blu-Rays having analog outs phased out this year. The research really had to do with using component vs HDMI to run from processor to projector.

Any compelling reason to run component instead of HDMI?? The run, again, is 30' and right now plan on quality Belden Series-1 HDMI from BJC. 

I've read whether component or HDMI makes more sense can really depend on equipment. I plan on using Marantz AV7005 prepro and Sony HW30ES projector. Additionally, a great deal of the time my source will likely be a Blu-Ray player. That may make the decision easy (allowing component to pass 1080i), but even then I see the 'howevers' and 'most of the time, BUT...'

I could run both, but with component, HDMI, Cat6...and the subwoofer cable and RG6 for satellite hitching a ride along the same horizontal route, you start talking about much more work drilling holes in joists every 16". Thanks for any input.

Dustin


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Dustin,

My understanding is that professional installers have continued to prefer connecting video over long distances using component video instead of HDMI, just because of the intermittent problems that HDMI has. Unfortunately, the "analog sunset" clause in HDMI licensing essentially prevents this from now on. Decoding HDMI into high-resolution analog video is strictly forbidden in new equipment. 

In other words, you needn't bother running component video cables. Instead, you need to make sure you have a high quality HDMI cable (not necessarily an expensive one) which is designed for long distances. People's experiences do vary a lot. Some need HDMI extender electronics and some don't. Some find that Cat6 baluns are more reliable. At any rate, if 1080p has problems, 1080i should not. Also, disabling "deep color" is another way to reduce the bitrate and thus make an HDMI connection more reliable. (No video source material available to consumers provides more than 8 bits per color, so deep color only wastes bandwidth. This might change in a few years when a new Blu-ray standard and compatible equipment supporting 4K resolution source material become available.)

Sadly, the exact problems you'll run into are hard to predict.

Edited to add: note that the computer resolution called FHD is the same as 1080p: 1920x1080 pixels per frame at 60 Hz/frame. The projector itself might support other computer-compatible resolutions, but your receiver or pre/pro will pass through only the much more limited consumer video resolutions.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

Good news, selden. Thanks. Appreciate the clarification on USB flash drive and firmware updates as well. Doesn't even look like Sony HW30ES does firmware updates, so may be a moot point. Still aways from a purchase, however. I'm sure the one I want will change. Panny AE7000 looks solid too.

Dustin


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

dusdau,

You're very welcome. 

Quite a few devices don't provide any way for the end-user to update the firmware. In that case, any update has to be done by shipping them to authorized repair centers.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

selden said:


> dusdau,
> 
> You're very welcome.
> 
> Quite a few devices don't provide any way for the end-user to update the firmware. In that case, any update has to be done by shipping them to authorized repair centers.


selden, off topic, but I notice your Marantz. I plan on getting the AV7005, and keeping an eye on it lately. Down to $1200 give or take a few, new from authorized dealer.

A few sites show 'not in stock' and two or three others 'discontinued'. Any idea on the 'life cycle' on the Marantz stuff? You think the AV7005 will hang around for a while to be had brand new? No problems with refurb, either, but that's more a hit and miss thing. Hate to press my luck and miss out, but also in no real rush (lots of room work to do still), and may as well wait on maybe even better price.

Dustin


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Dustin,

The AV7005 has been replaced by the AV7701, which has similar features. As a result, the remaining 7005s are selling at reduced prices and are disappearing rapidly. The AV8801 is also available. It provides a substantial upgrade in features, although at a substantial upgrade in price.

Marantz does not produce new pre/pro and amp designs on a regular schedule, unlike their receivers, most of which tend to be replaced annually.

Bear in mind that Marantz and Denon tend to produce similar models. In particular, Denon's top-of-the-line AVR 4520 receiver is essentially an AV8801 with amps built into it, but at a significantly lower price, primarily due to economies of scale: far more receivers are made than pre/pros. People have mentioned being able to get an AV8801 for about $3K, while the 4520 seems to be selling for about $2K. You have to contact authorized D&M dealers directly in order to be quoted reduced prices. They aren't allowed to advertise them.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Here's a 7005 

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Home-Theater-Networking-Receiver/1.html?c=sq


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

JQueen said:


> Here's a 7005
> 
> http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Home-Theater-Networking-Receiver/1.html?c=sq


Thanks. I've been eyeing that for a little while. Crutch had refurbs for a tad cheaper, but now sold out. I guess if they disappear before buying time, my fall back is the Emotiva UMC-200. Haven't done a ton of research into it, but seems pretty solid anyway. Doesn't have Audyssey is the biggest thing that sticks out to me.


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

With modern receivers and pre/pros, the major distinction *is* the room equalization software. In many cases it can make a very noticeable improvement in the sound you hear. The alternative is to spend a lot of time and money searching for high quality speakers and applying appropriate room treatments. Of course, in most cases, the better the speakers and room are to begin with, the better the results that EQ can provide.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

selden said:


> With modern receivers and pre/pros, the major distinction *is* the room equalization software. In many cases it can make a very noticeable improvement in the sound you hear. The alternative is to spend a lot of time and money searching for high quality speakers and applying appropriate room treatments. Of course, in most cases, the better the speakers and room are to begin with, the better the results that EQ can provide.


Will be running Klipsch Reference series (RB-81 II) for LCR. Haven't dug Klipsh much in the past, but fit the bill for what I wanted for HT. I will probably do some room treatments, but not going to go crazy with it. Maybe a couple panels on walls and ceiling. Bass traps in corners perhaps. Plants, racks, etc. work at all in corners for breaking up the 90 degrees?? WAF comes into play! But hopefully letting her pick out the breathable fabric for the panels will help a little bit.

I read Emotiva proprietary EQ was pretty good, but feel better with Audyssey, and after more research kind of soured a bit on them. Marantz just seems like safer bet for only a couple hundred dollars more. I'll be sick to my stomach if the AV7005 is sold out in a couple of weeks.


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Even if AV7005s are sold out, you should be able to get a refurbished AV7701 for about the same price. If you call around, I suspect you could get a new one for not much more. Of course, make sure you get it from an authorized reseller so you'll get a valid warranty.

FWIW, Accessories4less is a well known authorized Marantz reseller of refurbished units.


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## dusdau (Feb 9, 2013)

selden said:


> Even if AV7005s are sold out, you should be able to get a refurbished AV7701 for about the same price. If you call around, I suspect you could get a new one for not much more. Of course, make sure you get it from an authorized reseller so you'll get a valid warranty.
> 
> FWIW, Accessories4less is a well known authorized Marantz reseller of refurbished units.


That's good to know on the 7701. I am leaning towards the Accessories4less.com refurb...or spend couple hundred more for brand new from musicdirect.com. A4L has shipping...adds $30 or so. It's kind of a tit for tat on basement project...wife's getting countertops and new carpet soon, and sometimes slow playing this stuff pays off. You and I both know $1200 for a prepro is very reasonable...but for her it takes some convincing (and to her credit, she's pretty understanding about it all)!


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Gleaming countertops and comfortable rugs can make a home fun to be in too!

Best of luck with your upgrade.


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