# Owen's pre-build thread



## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Alright. The time has finally (*FINALLY!*) come. After starting to plan and collecting ideas... then having 2 kids instead, we’re starting work on getting the basement finished, and we’re a step closer to building the theatre room. This is just a pre-build thread to get my head in the right place, and float my plans out in case anyone sees critical mistakes.

The plan is something like this:


 Clean out the hoarder’s nightmare that has become our basement.
 Finalize the basic layout for the theatre (see below for details).
 Have framing done. (contractor)
 Have electrical done. (electrician friend)
 Add a few runs of smurf tube on exterior theatre wall just in case I need it down the road.
 Do low voltage wiring for theatre myself (speaker, HDMI to projector location, etc.)
 Have any plumbing/gas done, mostly just around relocating washer/dryer and hot water tank. (contractor)
 Minor HVAC, likely a fan controlled soffit vent for projector, and possibly a dead vent for equipment area.
 Planning on DIY diffuser panels set into rear wall (to save space).
 Install boxes for surround speakers.
 Have the outside walls spray foamed. (pro insulation company)
 Complete any low voltage wiring needed.
 Drywall, mud & tape. (contractor)
 Floor throughout basement (leaning toward luxury vinyl plank).
 Trim and doors. (contractor)
 Build speakers, subs, and screen.
 Acoustic treatment behind screen (bass traps and front wall)
 Set up equipment and enjoy!

*Equipment Details*

New 11.2 receiver
Oppo BDP
Bell Fibe cable box
Roku 2
Xbox 360
iNuke 6000 sub amp
Projector
DIY AT 2.4:1 screen

*Speakers*

DIY Sound Group Cinema 88 Special (front L/C/R)
DIY Sound Group Volt 6 (surround side, back, and Atmos)
Dual sealed 18” subwoofers (SI or Dayton)
Buttkicker LFE transducers (2) on rear couch
Buttkicker Mini transducers for (2) front seats
*
Theatre Layout*
The room I’m planning around is admittedly small for what I’m hoping to cram into it. But I think if done carefully, I can make it all work. Right now my biggest concern is fitting in 2 rows, which is kind of important (2 of us, plus 2 kids, plus guests means we’ll need to seat at least 4 – 8 at times). The plan is to use a slim couch right against the back wall, which isn’t ideal, but acceptable for secondary seats. That will be raised (maybe 6-8”), which means low headroom for me at 6’3” but should be OK for kids and shorter people.

I’m hoping to mount the projector in a rear soffit to keep a clean look and help with noise, venting directly to the room next door. Height, beam path, and throw are all issues I need to sort out, and will be modeling the room in sketchup to make sure I’m not setting myself up for failure.

I had originally planned for a false screen wall, 2’ from the wall, where I would mount the AT screen and put all the equipment. I have since thought to modify that to a 2-stage false wall, with the lower half coming out the full 2’, but the screen section only 1’ or so, to allow just enough room for the speakers. That would give me a little more room for throw distance and viewing distance.

The screen itself I haven’t given a ton of thought to yet, but it seems that SeymourAV are the go-to in DIY (AT) material providers. I think I’m convinced about building 2.4:1 CIH screen, because I can go full width and not have to worry about the bottom of the screen taking up component space or being too low to see. Also, I kind of feel that those extra wide format movies will feel the most “special” if I maximize for them, but I’ll still be totally happy viewing 16:9 content on the slightly smaller area. We’ll be sitting close enough that it won’t feel tiny.

The projector I have in mind is the Pannasonic ae8000u, which is popular. I really like that it handles switching between aspect ratios well automatically.

The main LCR speakers I’m strongly leaning toward are DIY Sound Group’s 88 Special. I like the large waveguide for great dispersion, and they will play loudly and efficiently beyond anything I’ll need in this size room. One of the things I’ve heard a lot about them is that the clarity is top notch, which is very important for me. I really want a big step up in the quality of dialogue in this theatre. I’m looking forward to 3 identical LCRs right behind the screen where they should be. My current CC is a Paradigm CC370 (not exactly small) and I find myself wanting to turn it up often, or straining to hear quiet conversations. I’ve already increased the level, but it still isn’t great. These will be located behind the screen, and the 9” depth is nice. I’m hoping that a 12” screen wall upper section will give me whatever room I need for placement, including toe adjustments and possibly treatment on the rear wall (if not I’ll just treat directly around them).

Surround speakers will be Volt 6 coaxial speakers, mounted in-wall on sides and back. Atmos speakers (either 2 or 4) will also be Volt 6 mounted flush to the ceiling.

Subs will be on the front wall, below the screen, flanking the equipment cabinet. Placement isn’t ideal, but it maximizes space and I’m sure the output of two 18” subs will be adequate, especially with Buttkickers to augment the tactile low end.

*Floorplan*
Here’s a basic, probably almost to scale and almost accurately measured plan of the basement, with the planned theatre layout. I’ll confirm the measurements and height and get the room done in sketchup when I have a chance. That’s what I’ll use to model the projector and seating stuff in more detail. I know it’s tight, and I know the 2nd row will be far from ideal. The upside is that kids or casual guests don’t care.

SEE ATTACHED PLAN

_*Edit: Sorry, on the plan, the projector and screen are bright green, if that wasn't self evident._

I think that’s it for now. We’ve been meeting with contractors, and hope to start framing in the next month or so. Which means I’ll need to finalize my room plan at least. I’ve done a bunch of other layouts, tried the screen on the long wall and making it a big open living room type theatre, but I think I really prefer the feel of a closed in space. I’m still open to suggestions though, for now!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Looking forward to seeing the progress on this. One note on the furniture placement make sure you have the rear sofa pulled away from the rear wall. Sound refection will be an issue for anyone sitting there. Another option is to put sound dampening on that wall where your heads are above the backrest on the sofa.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Hey Owen, congrads on getting the build back in gear. I'm almost ready to complete mine as well. I know space is always at a premium (my room is a converted bedroom, 12X21), is there any way to rotate it 90 degrees & utilize more of that basement? I'd like to see more room behind the screen to allow for pulling the speakers out away form the wall. Would also allow that rear seating to be pulled out as well. I totally understand if the space isn't available...it's just jumping out at me in the pic.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> Looking forward to seeing the progress on this. One note on the furniture placement make sure you have the rear sofa pulled away from the rear wall. Sound refection will be an issue for anyone sitting there. Another option is to put sound dampening on that wall where your heads are above the backrest on the sofa.


Thanks Tony! I'd love to put more distance between the rear seats and the wall, but I don't think I have the room. I do plan to build a couple of diffusers into the rear wall, and likely some absorption as well.



Tonto said:


> Hey Owen, congrads on getting the build back in gear. I'm almost ready to complete mine as well. I know space is always at a premium (my room is a converted bedroom, 12X21), is there any way to rotate it 90 degrees & utilize more of that basement? I'd like to see more room behind the screen to allow for pulling the speakers out away form the wall. Would also allow that rear seating to be pulled out as well. I totally understand if the space isn't available...it's just jumping out at me in the pic.


Thanks Tonto. I'll need to check your progress! I thought about rotating and having it open to the larger area, but we decided that it would be better to keep a small enclosed theatre, and an open play area for the kids (5 months and 2 1/2 - lots of time left for running around like little crazy people). I'm pushing the screen back as far as possible to get a little more distance to the main viewing seats, and I'm planning to treat the whole front wall (except cutouts for the speakers if required) with 2" or more of absorption material. That SHOULD help to minimize the negative effects of being close to the wall. I'll also have corner traps back there, anywhere I can squeeze them in.

Oh, and what you don't see in that plan is that to the left of the other support pole is the furnace, water heater, and laundry, which is going to be enclosed as well.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Owen Bartley said:


> Thanks Tony! I'd love to put more distance between the rear seats and the wall, but I don't think I have the room. I do plan to build a couple of diffusers into the rear wall, and likely some absorption as well.


Wait until Bryan sees your thread, as I am pretty sure he will say you need around 5' to your seats from the rear wall if you are going to use diffusers. We went with absorption for the rear wall, even though I wanted to go with diffusers again. The new panels they make that absorb , and reflect might work, but Bryan can tell you.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

ellisr63 said:


> Wait until Bryan sees your thread, as I am pretty sure he will say you need around 5' to your seats from the rear wall if you are going to use diffusers. We went with absorption for the rear wall, even though I wanted to go with diffusers again. The new panels they make that absorb , and reflect might work, but Bryan can tell you.


Haha! I was actually already worried that Bryan would find a million problems with this plan. As always though, I'm very happy to have the benefit of his expertise, at least to know what compromises I've made and what the effects will be. 

I was thinking a mix of treatment on the rear wall would have benefits to the back row (some absorption) as well as the MLP (a pair of diffusers). 

Might as well get it all out there while I'm on it... I'm planning to do 2" of spray foam on the exterior walls, and filling the rest of the leftover cavities with safe n sound. Interior walls will be filled with safe n sound. I know the spray foam does virtually nothing for sound, but I want the security of knowing this place is sealed up tight. I plan to fill all available front wall Corners with traps, and blanket the rest of the wall with absorption. First reflection points will get panels, and the rear wall will have a mix of diffusion and absorption. That's about as far as I've gotten.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Please post REW graphs of the finished room without any treatments. It would be real nice to see how the different treatments tame the rooms performance.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I'd like to try to do that, but the equipment will be the last thing in the room, probably. I'll have to build all the speakers, and buy a new AVR and sub amp, and that will all come after construction. I'll see how much I can leave out, but some of it will just make sense to do in line with the construction work. I can leave the 1st reflection panels till last... and I can try to leave the bass traps and front wall treatment too. Might have some integrated soffit traps built during construction. If I have a raised back row, the riser will also be used as a trap.

I know ideally the mantra is "measure first, then treat problem areas" so I will try my best to stick to that. I might go for 2 broadband diffusion panels on the rear wall to break up as much as I can, because they'll have to be sunken into the stud bay to save room. I guess I could just figure out a size and frame out a hole... :scratch:

You should be ashamed of yourself, Tonto. Making me do things the proper, logical way.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm sorry, don't mean to be causing any trouble!!! I just don't think I've actually seen a short/sweet build thread on just treatments. Maybe I can talk Brian into to working with me when I do my room. I should have everything in place before the treatments start.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I don't think Short & sweet and treatments exists... lol

I've been doing some reading on and off for years, and the more you read, the more comprehensive it gets. I think I'll try to work in a simple approach when I have the room built, if I'm able. I won't be doing comprehensive treatments, but first level stuff, maybe some standard bass traps and if there's a serious problem I'll try to address it. We'll see how things go. :wink2:


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Not really a major update here, but I'm getting closer to decision time on a few things and more input is required.

1) I have ordered a pair of UXL-18 subs from Mark at Mach 5, which are in production (I think). I'm really looking forward to these.

2) I'm looking at whole house wiring items at the same time, since I still have the basement at least opened up. I am contemplating putting in distributed coax (for when I cut cable and get an OTA antenna), as well as cat5/cat6 network cable, both throughout the house or as best as I can manage.

My tentative plan for now is to run a (network cable) line up from the main floor where the modem is to the attic, and have a small hub/switch there to distribute the drops to the 3 bedrooms. 

The coax needs more planning, but I'm thinking coax IN to the attic from the antenna (mounted up high on the side of the house), to a dual out splitter, one line for upstairs (3 bedrooms) and one line run to the basement to split again to downstairs (living room, theatre, rec room, and garage)

My main question is what type of cables should I go for?

1) Coax: I think RG6 is the go-to for coax, so that was my plan.

2) Network: I'm pretty sure on Cat6 over Cat5, because I'd like to run a gigabit switch to all locations. What I'm not 100% sure of is the various flavours of "plenum rated", "in wall rated", "riser rated", etc. Some is jacketed, some isn't, there are more versions than I remembered. Would something like the following be suitable for running in-wall?

http://www.cablesonsale.ca/index.ph...cm-bulk-ethernet-bare-copper-cable-black.html

http://www.cablesonsale.ca/index.ph...randed-in-wall-rated-550mhz-24awg-yellow.html

http://www.cablesonsale.ca/index.ph...mr-bulk-ethernet-bare-copper-cable-black.html

http://www.cablesalescanada.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1123_1210&products_id=2651

http://www.cablesalescanada.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1123_1210&products_id=8448

http://www.cablesalescanada.com/ind...th=394_480_24851_24881_24882&products_id=2602

_Edit: Sorry for the huge list, just want to make sure._

OR similar... the jacketed versions are significantly more expensive, so if it isn't required I'd rather not pay the extra.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Owen Bartley said:


> Thanks Tony! I'd love to put more distance between the rear seats and the wall, but I don't think I have the room. I do plan to build a couple of diffusers into the rear wall, and likely some absorption as well.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Be careful with placing diffusion right near your head/seating against a rear wall. I believe that absorption is your better option. Here's a good video about diffusion:

http://realtraps.com/video_diffusors.htm


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Thanks Todd. The diffusion is more for the front row, which will be the primary seats. The back row will be up against the wall out of necessity, so it will be a compromised position in any case. I'll probably add some absorption, but I don't want to deaden it too much. I'll probably see how it measures before going at it. 

The reason I want to implement the diffusers early on, is so I can sink them into the wall. Going the full depth of the stud and Drywall will get me around 4" without having to project into the small room. Then a panel with a 2" protrusion can have wells 6" deep. I want to install these before insulation and Drywall. 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Really looking forward to watching this theater take to life!:smile:


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Thanks Todd, so am I! 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

I will be following with interest as well..Good luck with the build Owen..


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Owen Bartley said:


> Haha! I was actually already worried that Bryan would find a million problems with this plan. As always though, I'm very happy to have the benefit of his expertise, at least to know what compromises I've made and what the effects will be.
> 
> I was thinking a mix of treatment on the rear wall would have benefits to the back row (some absorption) as well as the MLP (a pair of diffusers).
> 
> Might as well get it all out there while I'm on it... I'm planning to do 2" of spray foam on the exterior walls, and filling the rest of the leftover cavities with safe n sound. Interior walls will be filled with safe n sound. I know the spray foam does virtually nothing for sound, but I want the security of knowing this place is sealed up tight. I plan to fill all available front wall Corners with traps, and blanket the rest of the wall with absorption. First reflection points will get panels, and the rear wall will have a mix of diffusion and absorption. That's about as far as I've gotten.


If i was to do it again... I would have everything on 24" spacing and fill the cavity with Roxul R60 or R80 Rockboard. I think that would make the room even quieter with R80 in the walls plus double drywall. I told my wife if we ever have the roof redone, and they pull the boards off I am replacing all the insulation with multiple layers of Roxul R80 to stop all the heat coming in from the sun.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Thanks Ron, that's something to consider... I think I will definitely go for 24" spacing on the staggered stud wall that will separate the theatre from the rest of the basement. I've been looking at Roxul ComfortBoard 80 for behind the screen wall and acoustic panels throughout. I think it's pretty similar to RockBoard (it's a mineral wool insulation board).

A small update, with some hopes of larger steps forward in the near future. We have been trying to clean up the hoarder's nightmare that is the basement, and have spoken to a family friend who is a framer, and is willing to do the framing for us. I'm hoping it will be sometime in December. We have purchased flooring, which is now sitting in the garage. I'm working on my acoustic plan, and slowly pulling together my ideas.

I'm close to ordering the new speakers as well, and I wanted to float an idea out there. The surround and Atmos ceiling speakers will all be in-wall, in their own enclosures. I'm 99.9% decided on the DIY Sound Group Volt-6LX kits. As far as connecting the speakers, I was considering bypassing traditional binding posts or spring clips, and just drilling a hole in the enclosure to wire directly from the in-wall wire run. Fewer connections, fewer parts... that's a good thing, right? Also, the speakers will be permanently attached, so they won't be coming out without major reconstruction anyway. If anyone has any reasons not to do this, I'd love to hear them.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

If you are building enclosures for the ceiling speakers, do you plan on designing the fronts with the proper angles to help with aiming? And then sliding them in between existing trusses. That would be a lot more work, but might be worth it.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Tonto, Ideally... yes. I have some ideas about either a slightly modified (angled baffle) enclosure OR using a standard enclosure and mounting it at a slight angle with a separate grill cover that sits flush to the ceiling that would point the front Atmos speakers a bit back and "in" towards the listening area. They will sit up between the joists , and there isn't a lot of room to move, but I think I will be able to get at least 10 - 20 degrees of tilt. 

Sometimes I consider just putting them in flat, but then I tell myself that I want to do this as correctly as I can the first time, I'm not in a rush, and it will sound better the hard way so just man up and do it already. 

The rear Atmos speakers will probably be between the front and back row, and will aim straight down.


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