# Denon AVR-X2200w vs Onkyo TN-NR646



## soapboxpreacher (Nov 19, 2011)

So I am in the market for a new AV receiver and these two fit my budget. I currently have a Denon 2311ci that just lacks some features and I am looking to start building my 4K setup so the 2311ci will be on eBay shortly. My room is 18x18 with 8' ceilings. I currently have a 5.1 setup consisting over front klipsch reference 5.3I believe and kilpsch dipole 4.3 in the rear with an rc10 center. I also have a rythmik 12 port sub. My 2311ci is rated for 130 watts x7. I am first concerned that the x2200 might be under powered. But I like the feature set tremendously. I do like to turn it up some but not over board when we watch movies. It is purely a tv/movie setup, no music. I am planning on adding some ceiling speakers as well for my sides. I am trying to keep my expenses for the receiver under 700. The denon is on sale for 599 and the Onkyo is the same. The Onkyo is rated for 5 watts more. Power isn't as my driving factor as much as sound quality, sorround quality and 4K. I sorround fields and fullness, imaging and so on are my main points. Back in the day when I bought my 2311 I had a pioneer 1123k I tested along side the 2311 as well as a Yamaha and the denon clearly had the better fuller sound, better imaging, better dialogue and better fuller bass. So the other went back. Let me know what you guys think. Or if I should consider something else. Dts X/atoms seems like it would be wise to have considering my speaker layout with the two side ceiling so I believe I should be looking at units that support it. Once again let me know. Hope I gave you guys enough info. Thanks.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Denon should give you the better options with at least some fashion of Audyssey. The imaging, sound stage and smooth bass response, etc, should all be better with Audyssey, although it may need a little tweaking. Bass response will also be dependent on placement, then equalization with Audyssey can further help. Imaging is typically more of a concern with music... having your mains level matched and equalized does wonders for imaging. With movies you'll mainly want good subwoofer equalization and blending with your mains... and good dialogue with the center, which again, with Audyssey, you'll be better equipped to accomplish it. 

You may as well download REW too... get a UMIK-1 and do some measurements. Try to read up in the forums on performing measurements... which should be a lot of help for you... and it's fun. :T


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## rrseth (Dec 26, 2015)

I just bought the Onkyo from the site below for $400 shipped, great deal! Hope that helps...

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eiver-wi-fi/bt/airplay-sale-reduced-50/1.html


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## soapboxpreacher (Nov 19, 2011)

So I got both setup and tried the Denon for a Day and the Onkyo for a Day. Early observations are: The Denon produces significantly better video. My picture detail, sharpness, and so on have improved!!! This I was not expecting at all!! So that video processor is either not degrading via pass thru or it is processing. Either way my picture looks AMAZING going thru the Denon! Ill take it! As for the Onkyo the picture when passing thru the HDMI gets degraded.. huge disappointment. As a long time Onkyo owner and one that got stung by the HDMI issues in the past this is really frustrating. Not that the picture is bad but there is a noticable difference. All thru the same cables and Samsung 65" HDTV. Now on to the sounds early observations. Dialogue is better on the denon...you get more detail and clarity. It isnt a big difference like the video differences but it is noticeable. Bass the onkyo is nothing short of amazing. I replayed tron legacy light cycle scene about 20x on both! The scene where the two go guys sandwich the bad guys bike! It is a rumbler!! My FV12 really rolled the floor. It was also more apparent during Star Wars ep 2 of the nubian craft enters the atmosphere as well as the seismic charge sequence. Have lots more listening to do. I do not like the calibration of the Onkyo AccuEQ is complete garbage!! It crossed my main at 120hz...we are talking about Klipsch RF52. They arent bookself speakers!!! I believe they should be xover to something in the neighborhood of 60-80hz. Audessey is significantly more accurate and more comprehensive!! These are early observation but the where also the obvious ones. The AccuEQ takes a few minutes where as the Audessey takes 20 mins with multiple measure positions. AccuEQ...one location? It also didnt crossover my towers correctly! Level were also very goofy! They should not have cut this corner! The Onkyo does have more machismo but it is more like a bull in a china shop than somes powerful yet refined! The Denon which I thought was going to be inferior is actually my early favorite. I just need to see how I cant get my sub to perform better with it. I am going to post another thread on how to config my sub with the denon. I hope this is a case of a bad LFE port on the denon where I lose all my dynamics. The guys over at SVS have said in the past to watch for this. Know how my sub performs I believe I need to take a deeper look. More to come!


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## Rick R (Dec 3, 2013)

soapboxpreacher said:


> So I got both setup and tried the Denon for a Day and the Onkyo for a Day. Early observations are: The Denon produces significantly better video. My picture detail, sharpness, and so on have improved!!! This I was not expecting at all!! So that video processor is either not degrading via pass thru or it is processing. Either way my picture looks AMAZING going thru the Denon! Ill take it! As for the Onkyo the picture when passing thru the HDMI gets degraded.. huge disappointment. As a long time Onkyo owner and one that got stung by the HDMI issues in the past this is really frustrating. Not that the picture is bad but there is a noticable difference. All thru the same cables and Samsung 65" HDTV. Now on to the sounds early observations. Dialogue is better on the denon...you get more detail and clarity. It isnt a big difference like the video differences but it is noticeable. Bass the onkyo is nothing short of amazing. I replayed tron legacy light cycle scene about 20x on both! The scene where the two go guys sandwich the bad guys bike! It is a rumbler!! My FV12 really rolled the floor. It was also more apparent during Star Wars ep 2 of the nubian craft enters the atmosphere as well as the seismic charge sequence. Have lots more listening to do. I do not like the calibration of the Onkyo AccuEQ is complete garbage!! It crossed my main at 120hz...we are talking about Klipsch RF52. They arent bookself speakers!!! I believe they should be xover to something in the neighborhood of 60-80hz. Audessey is significantly more accurate and more comprehensive!! These are early observation but the where also the obvious ones. The AccuEQ takes a few minutes where as the Audessey takes 20 mins with multiple measure positions. AccuEQ...one location? It also didnt crossover my towers correctly! Level were also very goofy! They should not have cut this corner! The Onkyo does have more machismo but it is more like a bull in a china shop than somes powerful yet refined! The Denon which I thought was going to be inferior is actually my early favorite. I just need to see how I cant get my sub to perform better with it. I am going to post another thread on how to config my sub with the denon. I hope this is a case of a bad LFE port on the denon where I lose all my dynamics. The guys over at SVS have said in the past to watch for this. Know how my sub performs I believe I need to take a deeper look. More to come!


Personally I have just installed a Denon AVR2200W for friends with a Dali 5.1 system (I believe Dali is not well known in the U.S. but is a highly respected Danish loudspeaker manufacturer) I also own a Denon AVR4520. To get to the point and for what it is worth I find that Audyessy tends to leave the levels on the subwoofer a little on the light side and generally when measured with an SPL meter (do a sweep round the main listening area) can generally do with anything between a +3dB and +5dB tweek in the manual speaker level set up. I have seen similar comments from others both on this forum and elsewhere. With the subwoofer off and the Dali 5 main speakers full range the Denon AVR2200W gives a beautifully balanced rendition with plenty of bass. In this particular case I gave the subwoofer +2dB and the bass could be felt through the floor at moderate levels. On the Bluray San Andreas the chairs felt as though they were moving and and ornaments and objects were rattling around in the listening area and was achieved basically by matching up the level of the sub woofer to other speakers in the system, no other changes were needed. Stereo music listening was also excellent with the sub added into the mix. Give it a try see if it works for you


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## soapboxpreacher (Nov 19, 2011)

So yesterday evening I discovered a major problem with the Denon X2200W!! After hours of testing with both the 747 and the 2200W and issue came up with dimming. I saw it one before last week when my son was playing NHL 15 where the screen would just randomly dim 50% and stay that way. I could switch between sources to get to come out but it would only last temporarily. The other sources would not do this...just the xbox one and the xbox one would only do it with the 2200W...not with the 747 or the 2311CI. So this is strange!!! For example, I was playing the matrix revolution last night and when a scene switches to a dark area the screen dims 50% and stays there. If I unplug and replug in the HDMI while it is still going it will go back to full but will not stay. Sometimes for 1 minute sometimes for 3-4 but wham, if would go dim again. So I hooked up the 747 again as well as the 2311...doesnt do this with either of them, which rules out the xbox one as the problem! I can duplicate the issues every time and it doesnt just happen with the matrix, when my sons started a game of NHL 15 it did it as well. It did not do it with any of the star wars, Avengers, Battleship, Star Trek and a number of others. Once again, I can get the dimming issues to go away If I switch from the blu-ray source to the CBL/SAT it is back to normal but doesnt stay. CBL/SAT source (which is my comcast DVR) has never exhibited this! I believe to either have a bad unit or denon has a problem on their hands here! Once again I cannot tell you how much I like the sound better on the Denon and the video quality was better as well than the 747. But this is a major problem. Some background and why I believe this is pointing to the new denon is this. I have had the Xbox One hooked up to my old Denon 2311Ci for over a year, it has seen 100s of Blu-ray movies and a number of games with not a single issue. All the cabling is the same (Xbox came with its own 4k xbox ready one cable) so It is not a cabling issues not to mention it does NOT exhibit this with the 747 either. My trouble shooting has been power cycling on the xbox one, power cycle on the denon. I have tried different HDMIs on the X2200W as well. Still the same dimming issues happens. I have scoured google for this issue with no avail. Many years ago there was some mention with the Xbox 360 but the issue was not the same. It only does this with the xbox one and 2200W combination. I might grab another blu-ray player to see if that is the case. Either I have a defective x2200w or this is a design issue. Either way it really breaks my heart!! Its a sad day! I am within the 30 day period with denon so it might go back!! It sad because I love the sound on this unit. It has far exceeded the 747 and the 2311CI!! I am extremely impressed. I do not know if this is related to the video processing on the denon or not. I have went into the setting and disabled a number of things with once again, no avail! I dont know what else to troubleshoot for I dont believe I have left any stone unturned!


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## Rick R (Dec 3, 2013)

^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ 

Wow what a disappointment, the Denon AVR2200W I installed in my post above has now been running probably about 3months and used daily into a 55 inch Sony 4K TV and has exhibited *no* such problems in fact it's behaviour has been immaculate.

Does sound as though you have a defective unit and I would get it replaced, if you have time and my experience with Denon is they will respond pretty quickly (or even phone them) to see if they are aware of any such issues.

One question do you have video on pass through or is the Denon set to process video. The set up configuration here may give a clue as to what is causing this issue. There are several settings that can be changed when video processing is enabled. Once we have established that I think I have a copy of the user manual here and can look at what settings options might be causing this.

If video processing is enabled try disabling and see if the problem is still there. To be honest I generally run with the video processing on pass through on my 4520 I prefer the accurate video output of the Oppo and any other processing done by the TV


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## soapboxpreacher (Nov 19, 2011)

Gonna try and factory reset that denon techs have told me about this over the weekend maybe this evening time permitting. I hooked up my old Onkyo TX-NR626 and calibrated the room so I had something in the room to use...it has a very good version of Audyssey and nailed the room perfectly!! The sound is excellent out of this unit. Video is good but not as good as the denon. Ill let you guys know how the reset goes...but I have to say for the 626 to perform as well as it has I am surprised I didnt think to bring it upstair to my main HT setup earlier. I always thought it was inferior. It does lack the latest goodies but it sounds very good especially considering the price! After calibrating I believe the sound is better then the Denon!! Yeah...I just said that and I cant believe it! But this is thanks to the Audyssey version on that unit it is significantly better. It has significantly less power but it more then enough for the room. However, it isnt as clear at very higher volume levels as the denon but bass, imaging, and sound field is excellent! I really never crank it up that loud any way...for it would be too much on the denon as well. But I am pleasantly shocked! It seems that a lot of these units are skimping today. To throw more features in that cut out others!! You really need to step up your price tag to make a difference. Sad because that 626 was a great buy!! I believe I got it for 350!! It was slated for backup duty in my basement setup...which has inferior speakers, sub and so on! Putting it with my klipsch and Ryhtmik it has came alive!! It is unfortunately missing the new sound processing like DTS:X and Atmos but there is a shortage of material that are written for it anyway! Gonna take some time to see that stuff come out!


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## D Bone (Feb 23, 2012)

Was your X2200 set to pass through video or process it? Specifically i/p Scaler, was it on of off? My X2200 has been great and I agree with your opinion on it making video seem better somehow. Even though I use the default video settings which are basically just pass through (i/p Scaler Off) the picture looks awesome.

Also, the 626 only has Audyssey MultEQ compared to the X2200's Audyssey XT.


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## soapboxpreacher (Nov 19, 2011)

D Bone said:


> Was your X2200 set to pass through video or process it? Specifically i/p Scaler, was it on of off? My X2200 has been great and I agree with your opinion on it making video seem better somehow. Even though I use the default video settings which are basically just pass through (i/p Scaler Off) the picture looks awesome.
> 
> Also, the 626 only has Audyssey MultEQ compared to the X2200's Audyssey XT.


I tried it both ways in regards to video. Also the 626 was significantly better are calibrating the room regardless of the version or age. It hit all the channels just right.


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