# Wow New Sub Bassssssss



## workingclass (Feb 15, 2014)

I installed my new sub this weekend..A Rythmik FV15HP Now I was pretty sure my system would sound better w/ a sub upgrade.. But I really didn't expect how great it would sound! Wow what a difference a sub makes...Oh yea I am so pleased!!


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Glad to hear you're happy with the sound. Rythmik are great subs from what I hear. What sub did you have before if you don't mind me asking?


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## workingclass (Feb 15, 2014)

I was using an Energy eXL-10 that I've had for over ten years.. Worked pretty good in a small space. But not 4,400cu ft
I have basically updated my whole system over the course of 4-5 months. I am so impressed with the sound! I have to admit my ignorance of how important the sub or subs are in a system..Now I'm sold (good bass is critical) at least to my ears..


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Congratulations of your FV15HP acquisition. When you can, allow me to encourage the purchase of a second FV15HP. You'll be surprised how alive the room will become with the addition of a second FV15HP.

We have two subwoofers, one placed nearfield, right behind the main listening position and one on the other side of the room, opposite of the MLP where my wife and I sit.

As to how do we have the system dialed in? During regular television programming, both subs are +3dB hot and the CC is jacked up +3dB. For movie watching, over flat, we run the subs +10dB hot and the CC +6dB hot. Doing this gives lots of tactile sensation and the CC dialogue is easily understood over flat settings.

(for clarification purposes, over the television setting, we add in +7dB for each sub and +3dB for the CC )

In my opinion, the FV15HP is the top dog of what I term the budget minded set. To best a FV15HP, again in my opinion, one would have to step up to the likes of a pair of JTR Captivator S2s, to best a pair of FV15HPs and a much more substantial cost.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

BeeMan458 said:


> As to how do we have the system dialed in? During regular television programming, both subs are +3dB hot and the CC is jacked up +3dB. For movie watching, over flat, we run the subs +10dB hot and the CC +6dB hot. Doing this gives lots of tactile sensation and the CC dialogue is easily understood over flat settings.


:yikes:

Not sure I've ever seen anyone run their setup that high. Does Brian Ding know about this?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

theJman said:


> :yikes:
> 
> Not sure I've ever seen anyone run their setup that high. Does Brian Ding know about this?


He said not a problem.

Forgive me, I left a salient piece of information out of the conversation. When running the subs and center channel hot in the fashion I described, we have the main listening volume set to -20dBfs to -15dBfs, so there's zero chance of the subs being over driven.

My apologies for leaving this most important point out. At -15dBfs, the subs are still -5dB below reference level output.

...:rubeyes:...:huh:

(last night movie was "All Is Lost.")

Set up in this fashion, the volume wasn't overwhelming:


*Spoiler* 



yet you could easily hear the waves slamming into the side of the boat, all of the detail in the sound track and the approach of each of the passing cargo container ships.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

If I might encourage those who are lurking to join Home Theater Shack and ask questions or post replies. These forums are slow.....it's lonely.....boo-hoo.



Thirty-seven of you guys are viewing the subwoofer thread.

For our personal viewing pleasure, last night's movie was "All Is Lost" and the next movie to be shared, "Captain Phillips."

Movies on Amazon order: "Robin Hood" with Russell Crowe and "Enemy at the Gates."

The point, subwoofers are about being used and are not intended to be simply written about. Are you using your subwoofers tonight? Regarding upgrading you subwoofer system, what are you thinking about? Have you downloaded and got a freeware copy of REW up and running. Have you considered, a compatible EQ system like miniDSP?

...


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## padgman1 (Feb 13, 2013)

Beeman, once I'm done with the community play I'm involved in ("Shrek"), I will have time (again) to view items on the picture tube and enjoy sounds emanating from the sound boxes..........but that will be April........

Until then, I will have to live movie life through you and others........


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Wishing you well with your "Shrek" based community efforts.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

workingclass said:


> I installed my new sub this weekend..A Rythmik FV15HP Now I was pretty sure my system would sound better w/ a sub upgrade.. But I really didn't expect how great it would sound! Wow what a difference a sub makes...Oh yea I am so pleased!!


I recently upgraded our upstairs sub and yes it really is amazing the difference it makes. Luckily for me I replaced the two I had upstairs with one so those two got moved to our theater room. Have to also agree with others to though having two is better than one, and four is better than two and so on lol. What does the rest of your system consist of?


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## workingclass (Feb 15, 2014)

@onedayiwillbedone your upgrade was a new Paradigm sub right? Studio line? 
The rest of my system Paradigm Monitor 11's s7 fronts..Just slight regret there, I should have saved my pennies and got Studio 100's. I have a Studio 590 for center. Surrounds are older RM2300 polkies..AVR SR7008 Marantz... I think BeeMan is running a 4520 AVR and 2 whopping FV15HP's I can't imagine...What are you running onedayiwillbedone


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## workingclass (Feb 15, 2014)

Is anyone who is reading this thread using SVS PB13 Ultra? That's a very impressive looking sub. I'd like to hear one of those one of these days..


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Have to also agree with others to though having two is better than one, and four is better than two and so on lol.


On this point, a third or fourth sub is best served for room smoothing as the output benefit is greatly reduced after two subwoofers. 

The point, if buying more for the singular benefit of more output,, one is better served buying a pair of subwoofers that would qualify as a two grade increase in class (output) of subwoofer.

(yes, we're running a 4520 w/2 FV15HPs.)

...:bigsmile:


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

workingclass said:


> @onedayiwillbedone your upgrade was a new Paradigm sub right? Studio line?
> The rest of my system Paradigm Monitor 11's s7 fronts..Just slight regret there, I should have saved my pennies and got Studio 100's. I have a Studio 590 for center. Surrounds are older RM2300 polkies..AVR SR7008 Marantz... I think BeeMan is running a 4520 AVR and 2 whopping FV15HP's I can't imagine...What are you running onedayiwillbedone


Yes sir I also have the Paradigm Monitor 11's, but with Center 3, and two sets of the Surround 3's. The Sub 12 replaced my 2 Klipsch rw 12d subs I had upstairs. As for total spl output the 2 ported may have been louder but the overall quality of low end bass is what I did not realize I was missing. I had considered two but after the pbk and re running audessy it would be way to much. This is all upstairs running off an integra 30.2 with our lg 60". Downstairs I recently replaced my older Onkyo 805 with a new 3010. All speakers are kljpsch reference series rf82, rf62, rc62, rf52, 4 rw12d subs, and a diy jl sub using the 13w3. Also there was a post in home audio speakers by hifi asking about the paradigms we are running. If not to much trouble I am sure your opinion on your speakers would be appreciated. I never demoed the studio speakers how much difference was there? I know the internal components are better as long with the fit and finish but curious on sound difference.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

BeeMan458 said:


> On this point, a third or fourth sub is best served for room smoothing as the output benefit is greatly reduced after two subwoofers.
> 
> The point, if buying more for the singular benefit of more output,, one is better served buying a pair of subwoofers that would qualify as a two grade increase in class (output) of subwoofer.
> 
> ...


Yeah I really need to invest in a decent mic and run rew. I only have 5 since newegg had the 299 sale on the Klipsch over a year ago. I purchased one at a retailer when they came out so when I saw the sale I could not resist. I never imagined I would become infected with the audio video bug and want more but I could be infected with a worse virus I suppose lol. Anyway just like you mentioned having multiples makes everywhere in the room equal in terms of pressurization. This is quit nice for us since our room is not built yet and our basement is open. Once room is built I may not want what I have, lol yeah right I will probably just want more hehe. How many cubic feet is your room if I may ask?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> How many cubic feet is your room if I may ask?


Our listening room is 3300^3 that opens to a kitchen and a entryway. This image below best illustrates what I'm posting about regarding size, ceiling and kitchen/entryway. Dining room is the opening at the end of the kitchen blocked by the pole and the wall. I try to remember to close off bedroom doors and hall bath doors to reduce the amount of space being pressurized.



You can see into the kitchen and the entryway as well as see one of the subs placed nearfield at the back of the MLP. The surrounds are Klipsch KSP-S6

Like you, we came from RW12ds, one purchased at Newegg. We got one of the $289.00, delivered deals.  And like you, we also have a full on Klipsch speaker system.

From the wife's listening position; mains Epic CF-3s and the CC is a RC64 II. My avatar is a Klipsch provided image of a pair of Epic CF-3s.



We had three RW12ds which are like playground kids compared to the two NFL players the FV15HPs represent. Between REW, XT32/SubEQ HT and the two subs, we "DO NOT" need more. In my opinion, for comparison, if I decided that I wanted more depth and output, I'd have to go to a pair of JTR Captivator S2s which the budget will not support. Unless I was insisting on single digit playback capability, the S2s are wanted but not needed.

One FV15HP placed nearfield and one placed across from the MLP and you'll have the whole room rocking-and-a-rolling.



> This is quit nice for us since our room is not built yet and our basement is open.


How large is your basement/listening space going be? Basements have a way of getting really large and large spaces suck up a lot of subwoofage if wanting it both deep and loud.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Wow we do have similar equipment, I almost purchased the denon 4520 but chose the 3010 instead. Our room will be roughly 2500 cft 15*24*7. As of now with the stairwell and other rooms it is almost double that. Liked your analogy on kids versus nfl players, that is how I felt going from the 2 klipsch to 1 highend sub. I know there were other choices I could have made but I wanted to stay with paradigm. Do have another ? for you. Did you go straight to the rc64 or upgrade from the 52, or 62? Only ask cause if I can find a deal on a 64 in black ash I may have to get it. As of now I have both centers stacked wired together. I call it the poor mans 64 lol.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Do have another ? for you. Did you go straight to the rc64 or upgrade from the 52, or 62? Only ask cause if I can find a deal on a 64 in black ash I may have to get it. As of now I have both centers stacked wired together. I call it the poor mans 64 lol.


We upgraded from a Klipsch KV-4. I could not get the KV-4 to cooperated with the acoustics in the room and dialogue was always difficult to understand. Enters the RC-64 II which we purchased from Acoustic Sound Design in Las Vegas. You're looking at a first rate b-stock for $800.00 - $1,000.00 USD.

RC-64 II b-stock. Make your best offer. When you're ready, give them a call. The CCs are in perfect shape, the problem was a production run error in the shade of the veneer, so Klipsch went ahead with the full production run and now Acoustic Sound Design is selling them off for Klipsch.....with full warranty.

A few images of the b-stock RC-64 II that we purchased from Acoustic Sound Design.

   

What can I say? After being EQ'd +/-3dB flat, running the CC +3dB hot for regular cable programming and +6dB hot for movie dialogue, this CC is quite the delight to listen to dialogue through. I hope the above information and images give you a serious case of sweaty palms.

...:devil:


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## workingclass (Feb 15, 2014)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Yes sir I also have the Paradigm Monitor 11's, but with Center 3, and two sets of the Surround 3's. The Sub 12 replaced my 2 Klipsch rw 12d subs I had upstairs. As for total spl output the 2 ported may have been louder but the overall quality of low end bass is what I did not realize I was missing. I had considered two but after the pbk and re running audessy it would be way to much. This is all upstairs running off an integra 30.2 with our lg 60". Downstairs I recently replaced my older Onkyo 805 with a new 3010. All speakers are kljpsch reference series rf82, rf62, rc62, rf52, 4 rw12d subs, and a diy jl sub using the 13w3. Also there was a post in home audio speakers by hifi asking about the paradigms we are running. If not to much trouble I am sure your opinion on your speakers would be appreciated. I never demoed the studio speakers how much difference was there? I know the internal components are better as long with the fit and finish but curious on sound difference.


I'll try and check that post.. I didn't do a whole lot of research or (listening) to too many tower speakers prior to getting the 11's They sound great though, and I got a good deal on them. I'm sure I will have them for many years. As for the Studio 100's oh man that's a good looking and awesome sounding speaker! I listened to them when I was checking out CC's The Monitor 3 just wasn't going to work in my 4,400cu ft space. The Studio CC-590 works great and has integrated very well ..Nice clean sound..
Which brings me back to the main topic of discussion. BASS 
When I first started reading these forums about HT I'd think why are so many people interested in sub woofers...It's just a box with a speaker in it right? I had no idea what a schooling I was in for.. A good sub isn't just part of my system it's integral.. 
BeeMan played a part in my choosing Rythmik..Thanks BeeMan!


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

workingclass said:


> BeeMan played a part in my choosing Rythmik..Thanks BeeMan!


...:bigsmile:


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## goatfarm (Mar 31, 2007)

I'm not about to start a new subwoofer thread telling everyone how my latest acquisition bests all comers. Suffice it to say that my DefTech PF1500 has been, with some help from Radio Shack and BFD, a steady performer for many years. Its amp recently died and was replaced with a Dayton amp of possibly similar power that is being used externally since it won't fit the cubby where the dead amp once lived.

In this thread and others related I read about the importance of replicating the theater experience at home. I have yet to visit a movie theater that can best the sound I get at home. Other than the total envelopment of sound that a well designed theater space provides, my system always wins. Sound placement, sound quality, deep bass; all are superior to the theater alternative. I must assume that almost everyone here feels the same way.


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

I'll share a little about my recent sub upgrade. 

I recently picked up a massive sound physics labs bdeap-32 folded horn subwoofer. I am on a budget for my whole system but i got the sub in like new condition for $150 from Craigslist! It's a passive sub so i needed an amp and speakon cables etc. but i couldn't pass it up at this price. This past weekend i picked up a well used crown xls602 amp (not ideal i know) and all the cables to go along with it. Total i have spent $380 for everything. I wasn't really sure what to expect but I'm am blown away, and that's putting it lightly, by the power of this thing. It has completely changed the way my system sounds. 
I had no idea what i was missing until now! 

My system is made up of an older yamaha htr-5790 receiver, and pioneer Andrew Jones for all 7 channels. My question is would it even be worth looking for a different amp to drive the sub and since the lfe equalizing is pretty limited on my receiver, is it really worth getting a dedicated dsp for it? As it sits right now i have the sub channel at -10db and the gain on the amp at about 75% when casually watching movies and it feels well balanced.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

It's hard to say.

Our gain is at 10:00 o'clock and each has it's own 600w amplifier with a PEQ that allows one to adjust a single frequency range.

It reads like on the cheap, you've put together a great subwoofer package.

If you're wanting an Amp to drive this folder horn sub, something with a bit more capability would be in order, a Crown Audio XLS 2000.

If you look to the subwoofer specifications, you don't have to worry about overdriving your sub but you can be guilty of underpowering it as it's a 4ohm driver that's going suck up a lot of wattage and to keep distortion to a minimum, one needs to make sure the amplifier has plenty of headroom.

Subwoofer specifications:

Power Handling 1600 Watts Continuous

Nominal Impedance 4 Ohms, Optional: 2 x 8 Ohms

Another concern, this is more a concert style subwoofer that is frequency limited to that of a double bass guitar; 31.5Hz.

Frequency Response 32 to 42Hz - 190Hz (Loading dependent)

And at minimum, today's LFE movie sound tracks are geared towards THX standards of 20Hz to 120Hz with a surprising amount of bass information in the <20Hz realm.

Personally, if you're happy with your situation, I'd encourage you to enjoy what you have as it reads like you've put together a system you're real happy with. Anything more and you're going just be throwing a boatload of cash to put together another subwoofer system as inevitably, questions of this kind lead to a serious case of upgradeitist and this kind of malady can cause one's CC serious damage.

...:sarcastic:


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

I appreciate the suggestion, the xls2000 was the amp i was actually looking for but was unable to come across cheap. I actually spoke with Tom Danley, the designer of the sub, and he said with proper corner loading, he was actually seeing decent response down to 20hz in home theater setups with the help of some equalization. Just playing test tones, the sub is getting down to 20hz but not as clean as it could be. I was told that i would need to properly equalize the sub to get down that low.

I guess you're right though, is just personal preference. This whole thing gets me thinking about how much better it could sound if i could get it down to 20hz with flat response. In your pinion, how beneficial to the overall experience is getting down that last 10hz?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Sprayed8 said:


> In your pinion, how beneficial to the overall experience is getting down that last 10hz?


...




Subwoofers are a funny animal.  The more you have, the bigger the smile. Subwoofers are a perfect example of; "Money.........can buy happiness."

Our system? Flat to 11Hz. There's argument as to it being reference capable. Is there content I'm missing at <11Hz? Absolutely. Would I like better? Absolutely. A pair of JTR Captivator S2s. Will our finances support this jump? Not a chance. The point, in the end, it's all about the Benjamins and how many of them one has to throw at a conundrum of this kind.

If I were you (of course, which I'm not), I wouldn't hesitate to buy this particular amplifier. If you haven't already, I would also recommend down loading a freeware copy of REW and get it up and running. Next, again if you haven't already, I would look into a "miniDSP"

And directly to the question of it making a difference........you betcha "Red Ryder."

...:devil:


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

That's what i was afraid of. I have never owned anything capable of going this low so i wasn't sure but i figured it would be a big enough difference to at least warrant getting a minidsp and a mic for rew. Thanks.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Sprayed8 said:


> Thanks.


...:T


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## Paxonator (Feb 21, 2014)

I had the same reaction when I got my first real sub (PB-1000). I'm looking for a second already to go along with it already haha!


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## mvigo (Mar 27, 2013)

BeeMan458 said:


> Our listening room is 3300^3 that opens to a kitchen and a entryway. This image below best illustrates what I'm posting about regarding size, ceiling and kitchen/entryway. Dining room is the opening at the end of the kitchen blocked by the pole and the wall. I try to remember to close off bedroom doors and hall bath doors to reduce the amount of space being pressurized.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I noticed you have your sub behind the couch, do you get the best bass response by placing it there? I"m thinking about placing my sub behind the couch also.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Hi 

We have two subs and yes, one gets the best "tactile sensation" (rumble and roll) placing their subwoofer behind their (MLP) main listening position by +10dB.

If one has but one subwoofer, I would encourage them to place their sub behind or directly to the side of their MLP as opposed to all the additional recommended placement suggestions.

Do you have, or plan to get a second subwoofer?


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## mvigo (Mar 27, 2013)

BeeMan458 said:


> Hi
> 
> We have two subs and yes, one gets the best "tactile sensation" (rumble and roll) placing their subwoofer behind their (MLP) main listening position by +10dB.
> 
> ...


Not in the plans yet, i do have my sub on the side of the MLP but i was messing around over the wknd doing the subcrawl test and i notice i was getting deeper and better responce on my sub, the only problem i have is to convince my wife to agree to move down the couch 10 inches to fit the sub LOL. Thats why i have my sub on the side of the couch. Its sounds good but i do notice the difference. Did you do the subcrawl test to figure out where to put the sub?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

mvigo said:


> Did you do the subcrawl test to figure out where to put the sub?


I went the way of REW which required moving the subwoofers around the room and measuring the room's response to the subwoofer's placement. Without REW, your way is the easiest way.

Allow me to encourage. As soon as you can figure a second subwoofer into the budget, please do. In doing so, you'll find your room will quite literally come alive in a way a single subwoofer can never compete with. It really is that much of a difference.


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## workingclass (Feb 15, 2014)

I've been working way tooo much to get on the forum lately.. But I did get a chance to sit down and watch STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS with my significant other last night.. Oh man I am digging my sub! 
As I sit here in my MLP and looking where can I fit a second FV15HP??:scratch:


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

workingclass said:


> As I sit here in my MLP and looking where can I fit a second FV15HP??:scratch:


You will be very pleased with the results when you finally get that second FV15HP positioned and dialed in.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

workingclass said:


> I've been working way tooo much to get on the forum lately.. But I did get a chance to sit down and watch STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS with my significant other last night.. Oh man I am digging my sub!
> As I sit here in my MLP and looking where can I fit a second FV15HP??:scratch:


You should show your significant other how much you love her and buy her a FV15HP end table.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Bear123 said:


> You should show your significant other how much you love her and buy her a FV15HP end table.


...LOL!

A true gift of love.

...:rofl:

(now that was funny)

...:devil:


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

You should show your significant other how much you love her and buy her a FV15HP end table.
This is the best advice I've ever seen on here!!!!
Rofl also.....
I might try this. ...though it would likely be a FV15DH. (That's DH, like doghouse edition)


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> I might try this. ...though it would likely be a FV15DH. (That's DH, like doghouse edition)


...


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