# Don't know what I don't know



## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Just found this great forum... I know very little about home theaters, but I am building a house and the floor plan calls for a media room. I never thought I'd have the chance to have a dedicated home theater room, but here it is so I don't want to mess it up! (It will be small scale -- I think I'll probably just have enough room for one or maybe two rows of seating.)

Unless I specify otherwise, the builder is basically pre-wiring the room for surround sound speakers, and adding small faux wall columns with sconces, and calling that a media room. I'm a few months from buying any equipment, so I guess my questions to all the experts out there relate to the pre-construction/construction phase. 

For example, are there any fundamental requirements at this stage I should be aware of (e.g., "If it's not at least x by y feet, don't bother")? What would you say are the top considerations(speakers on wall vs. in ceiling, equipment cabinent in front vs back of room, etc.)? 

I'm not smart enough to even know what to ask for, so please tell me what you think would get this part of the overall house construction off to the right start. 

Thanks!
Ryan


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

Firstly, Welcome aboard.

Here is my opinion, hopefully others will chime in with their advice as well.

Rule 1. You cannot have too many speaker connections (or power outlets). 
We rebuilt about two years ago and I had a 5.1 amp at the time which died while the new house was being built and I replaced it with a 7.1
In hindsight I should have specified wiring for 7.1, or 9.1 or 11.2 but where do you stop?

As for room size, I had the luxury of getting a room with reasonable dimensions of 5.5 x 4.0 x 2.7 which replaced the double garage which we did not require.
Plugging it in to Bob Golds calculator shows it's ratio's are pretty good. http://www.bobgolds.com/Mode/RoomModes.htm

What is the space you have available and what materials are going to be used in its construction?


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

If you're going to have 2 rows of seating, you may want a riser for the second row. The builder can do that before the flooring goes in & pre-wire it for the electric seats & also speaker wire for base shakers for the chairs.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

robbo266317 said:


> dimensions of 5.5 x 4.0 x 2.7


I hope that is in meters


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Ryan: First, welcome! Take your time and read thru the posts here to see what others have done. As far as pre-wiring, there are never too many cables, especially in wall. My general advice is take what you think you need and double it - seriously. 

I would pre-wire for at least 11.1 channels (Google Audyssey DSX for what this means.) Then pull at least two HDMI cables from your AV receiver to your display, whether that is a projector or flat screen. If you have older components, you may also need component cables and perhaps a S-Video, although that is almost extinct now. Throw in a VGA just in case you want to hook up a computer (most newer models have HDMI outputs, tho.)

Also, not everything has to be in wall. Many times I have pushed cables between the bottom of the basebord and the flooring.

Think about your color scheme. Darker colors are preferred for HT. If you will have a projector, you will need light control to keep the screen from being washed out. Light blocking curtains help a lot, but again darker wall, ceiling and floor colors prevent light from being reflected from the screen back to itself.

Others will chime in with their success and not-so-successful build stories. Try your best to do it right the first time to avoid rework later.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

robbo266317 said:


> Firstly, Welcome aboard.
> 
> Here is my opinion, hopefully others will chime in with their advice as well.
> 
> ...


Using the link... What happens if you angle your walls?


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks for the information everyone. 

I suppose I have one more complicating factor to throw into the variables. My wife just checked the room dimensions for me, and the current plan calls for length and width of 13'3" x 12'10". I'm no expert, but this seems pretty small to me. But is it too small? How does this change my design approach?


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

astro2001 said:


> Thanks for the information everyone.
> 
> I suppose I have one more complicating factor to throw into the variables. My wife just checked the room dimensions for me, and the current plan calls for length and width of 13'3" x 12'10". I'm no expert, but this seems pretty small to me. But is it too small? How does this change my design approach?


Assuming 13 feet is your lenth and 12 ft your width.....Probably no larger than a 100 inch screen maximum which would likely require a 13 feet throw (placement of projector).
And that would only give you one row of 3 home theater seats with a tight squeeze past them on each side if that. The row of seats would need to be at 10 feet minimum....comfort viewing maybe farther like 11 feet.
This would leave you about 2 feet behind too rack your equipment.... receivers take about 18 inches at least.


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

ellisr63 said:


> Using the link... What happens if you angle your walls?


Well, thats a bit more complex. 
I have seen packages that can handle any shaped room although they were not free. One had a demo mode that would calculate but not let you print until you purchased an unlock key. 
Unfortunately I don't have a link to it anymore either.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

With a room that size, I would put the screen on the 12' wall if possible and only do one row of seating. To accomodate more people / your kids, I saw another member who used bean bag chairs (a variant anyway) and they looked really nice and comfy.

I would go with either 2 chairs; alternatively, you can check with Roman (RSH - one of the HTS sponsors) as I think they make a row of three seats that are a bit narrower.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

The bigger concern is that the room is almost square!..This is not a good situation acoustically speaking..and you will have a lot of problems trying to reduce room resonances..
If the house hasn't been built yet I would definitely opt for a more rectangular room..


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks for all the replies. We're just getting settled after our move across the country, and I'm starting to think again about this as our house gets built.

So the builder is asking me simple questions like "Do you want the speakers in the walls or in the ceiling." He'll wire it for whatever I request, but I think that is about all I can specify with him. I think 5.1 is all I can get. 

I also think he's assuming that I'll use a flat screen, since he hasn't asked about running HDMI to somewhere on the cieling. (I'm okay with that, since I always thought this room isn't big enough for a projecter. I'd be happy with a Sharp Aquos 70" or 80".)

As for the room being almost square and fairly small, I probably can't fix that. And I'm certainly too much a neophyte too worry about acoustical perfection. Honestly, I was thinking of Bose speakers or something in that price range (I know this will cause many here to choke), but I really just need a nice media room, not something George Lucas would be proud of. 

Basically, my current line of thinking is based on the acceptance that this is going to be the Toyota of home theaters vs. the BMW. Please tell me where I'm wrong, or if there is anything obvious I'm missing to make this the best possible.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

You can still make a really nice small HT without going crazy. I'd look to keep it as clean as possible, since it is tight. If you want to stick with a plasma/LCD display, that works. Figure out roughly what size you'll want, then estimate going a little bigger, and plan where to put your front speakers in-wall. Then figure out where you'll need to put your surround and surround-back speakers and wire for those. Plan an area for an equipment rack (build it in if you can for a super-clean look), and that should give you a well thought out take on the basics. In-wall subwoofer, maybe, maybe not. At least run wires to 2 locations with a single RCA jack so you have options, or can use dual subs (almost inevitable once you get a taste for bass...).

Some other things I'd seriously look at doing since you're pre-construction would be some sound treatment. Even if you just have the builder offset the studs for the theatre room walls and double drywall the ceiling and walls around it (with insulated cavities) I'm sure you'll be much happier down the road for a fairly minimal cost increase. This will keep the movie noise in the room, and keep other noise like traffic, dishwasher, footsteps, etc. out of there when you're enjoying a movie. This means that you won't have to turn things up as loud, and the sound will be cleaner too. MUCH easier to do this during construction than to try to fix it later.


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks. Are most folks' speakers flush with the wall, or mounted on brackets? I'd prefer the former, but not sure how much extra work/cost that is.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

If you haven't settled on any of the speakers you want to buy yet, going with in-walls (at least for the surround channels) will mean that they are almost totally flat, and you'll just have a visible grille at each one. That keeps clutter (stands/wires/etc.) off the floor, and makes furniture easier to manage. 

For the front stage you may want to take a step up in quality (usually) and go with floorstanders or nice bookshelves on stands, and a standard centre channel. If you'd rather keep things tidy and off the floor you could either mount regular speakers on shelves or brackets, or just go with in-walls all around which would be your cleanest option. You _might_ not get quite as good quality sound with in-walls, but it all really depends. You'll still be far ahead of the TV speakers, and have a virtually invisible setup. And of course, there are some very high end in-wall options available, but they can get pricey pretty fast. A decent set of 3 identical in-wall speakers across the front should get you great results.

Again, the big benefit of planning this pre-construction is that you can easily do the wiring and speaker installation without having to cut holes, fish wires, and make a mess of your house.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Is this a one or two story building? Will you have attic access over the room later?

Will the wires terminate in a closet or under the TVs location? That is to say where do you what your equipment to be physically located?

You may want to run cat-6 as opposed to HDMI if you haven't chosen weather or not to go with a flat panel or projector. 

In-wall/in-ceiling makes since from the prospective of room size but floor standing speakers sound better.

Can you upload your floor plans to give us a better idea of the room?


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

This is on the second story, so the front wall with flatscreen and the right wall will have attic behind with access. The left wall and back will not.

Given size of the room, I'm not sure I have a choice. I need to go with in-wall for all speakers. What do folks usually do with the sub? I guess those cannot be in-wall, right?


For equipment, I'd like to also have in-wall type cabinet, but not sure I can convince the builder to make something recessed without a big extra charge (or they may not do it for any amount of money). But there would be room on the front wall since there is open attic space behind. But if this is not available, my fall-back for equipment would be a small cabinet aside or under the mounted flatscreen.

Not familiar with a CAT-6, but was just planning on using HDMI.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Cat 6 is ethernet.. You have any pictures to post of the design or general outline ?


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

This setup would give you a few options... for the equipment rack, you could build the rack into either wall where you have attic access, although you will probably want to enclose it so the attic dust, etc. doesn't get into it. Maybe the builder could add a standard closet (without a door) to the room?

And the subwoofer _could_ be in-wall, although it may be more difficult to get good sound that way. I don't think you want to go with an infinite baffle design (but you certainly could for great impact!) and I haven't really read a lot of stellar reviews for plain in-wall mounted subs. Having only one fixed location for the sub could mean that in a room you haven't tested/measured, you might run into some serious peaks or nulls, and might end up with boomy or weak bass. With a standalone sub at least you have the option of moving it around to see where it sounds best (which is why I recommended cabling for 2 subwoofer jacks). Lots of people have made great looking furniture subs here, google "end table subwoofer" or "coffee table subwoofer" for some ideas on how you can make it blend in and go unnoticed.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

astro2001 said:


> This is on the second story, so the front wall with flatscreen and the right wall will have attic behind with access. The left wall and back will not.


So this is going to be a finished attic with no ceiling access later?



> Given size of the room, I'm not sure I have a choice. I need to go with in-wall for all speakers. What do folks usually do with the sub? I guess those cannot be in-wall, right?


In-wall subs are less optimal then exposed but there are good wireless options. 



> For equipment, I'd like to also have in-wall type cabinet, but not sure I can convince the builder to make something recessed without a big extra charge (or they may not do it for any amount of money). But there would be room on the front wall since there is open attic space behind. But if this is not available, my fall-back for equipment would be a small cabinet aside or under the mounted flatscreen.


You could run the wires to the attic space behind the front wall for now then run them through the wall after you have determined location. 

...

Cat-6 can be used in place of long runs of HDMI and other cables. You may not need this in your setup. But you may want to run a line from your router to the equipment so you can stream without using wifi. 

Martin Logan, Bowers and Wilkins, and Speaker Craft all make high quality in-wall speakers. I use them often. Also you may find room for your front speakers to be exposed on-wall or floor standing if you are going with a flat tv.


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