# Video upconversting Receiver + HDCP = Useless (??)



## Wayde (Jun 5, 2006)

I just heard something that rather revolutionizes things for me. I file it under rumor so far because I am not certain that it's a technical fact, but at least one commenter (who seems to communicate on the matter in a coherent manner) states it as fact.

Basically the idea is that Video upconversion, the kind performed by those fancy HQV chips found in those new Onkyo receivers everybody is talking about and Faroudja DCDi... cannot alter the video signal from the source as it travels to the display via HDMI because of HDCP. 

This means any video upconversion in the receiver is essentially useless. I did *not *know that! 

The only way this may _not _be true is where HDMI doesn't have HDCP. Which is probably something close to non-existent. 

The only modifications the receiver can do to the signal is separate audio from video... apparently... but I guess upconversion would somehow violate HDCP or something?? My question is obviously the receiver would be HDCP compliant as well and should be able to work around this... although I am not sure.

Does anyone have any insight to this? If true it's rather revolutionizes any recommendations I would make on HDMI receiver purchases. 

Thanks in advance for any answers


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

The upconversion feature appears to be for analog signals and not digital. From an Onkyo manual:

*HDMI upconversion of composite video, S-Video, and component sources (720p, 1080i, 1080p capable)*


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## Wayde (Jun 5, 2006)

Interesting, thanks. It makes sense to me. 

On the same note - I would like to know if there is a technical difference between the words "upscaling" and "upconverting". I have used them interchangably but I read someone on AVsforum say there was a difference but never explained. Searches have revealed everything from ... they're the same to ... upconversion is digital video signal to digital video signal... upscaling is 480i to anything higher or even de-interlacing.

Does anyone have any insights on this?


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

There is a new upconversion (not scaling) technique, Super UpConversion (SUC) that makes higher definition results from using multiple frames of video. This is a very computation heavy technique and only recently has become practical in real time due to advances in hardware. Toshiba, Kaleidoscope, and other consumer electronic companies are now considering its use. Formerly it was a university only research technique.

Here's an example that Toshiba posted:


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

I found a good description of the differences here:

http://au.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20070709111507AAilL4s


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

HDCP rules are that any DVD player or receiver can not upconvert the analog signal to anything more than 480p. Meaning that anything output over component is not allowed to be upconverted higher than 480p. HDMI is another beast altogether and because the signal is digital it theoretically can not be copied and thus full upconversion is allowed.


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