# I was just given a SAE A301 Amp...



## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

Let me start this post by telling you I know absolutely nothing about Amps. I have always just use the receiver and was happy...

My son brought me a SAE A301 amp that was about to be thrown away and asked if I could use it. From what I can find online it's a 150 wat two channel amp. I have no idea if it functions properly and do not know how to test it. Are there any good tests I can perform?

I am setting up my theater and trying to decide what speakers and type of placement I want to use. I have a new Onkyo 818 that I plan on using and if this amp works, and is suitable, it would be great to set up 9.1 with it. 

Anyone have any thoughts on the quality of this old amp?


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Hi there, good question.

I am not an expert but as far as I know the SAE products are very nice and work wonderfully. 

As far as testing, not sure here, I am somewhat of the klutz here so I am sure smarter folks than me will pipe in shortly.


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

I have been thinking on my theater room for about 6 years now and thought I had it all sorted! Turns out I am changing lots of little things at the last minute  

One of my "ideas" was to build a short rack to hold my stuff. It was going to hold a receiver, Computer and maybe a stand alone BR player.. If I add this amp its going to be too "tight" on a 28" tall rack.. Going to have to redesign everything to allow for cooling...


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

swatkins said:


> Let me start this post by telling you I know absolutely nothing about Amps. I have always just use the receiver and was happy...
> 
> My son brought me a SAE A301 amp that was about to be thrown away and asked if I could use it. From what I can find online it's a 150 wat two channel amp. I have no idea if it functions properly and do not know how to test it. Are there any good tests I can perform?
> 
> ...


I have owned a number of SAE amps, including the A501, big brother of the A301. The amps is 175 w.p.c, not 150W. With an old amp of unknown condition, you want to make sure you hook them up to a pair of old, dispensible speakers, never your good speakers. Should the amp have a suddenly failure, you don't want it taking out your good speakers. When I get any used amp, I always first check its outputs for DC offset with a multimeter. 

If the A301 is in good working condition, and you plan on keeping it, you will want to consider having it restored. The electrolytics are quite old and could fail at anytime. A cap failure is likely to cause expensive damage. They should all be replaced. Capacitor technology has improved beyond what it was when the amp was made. 

Also, as parts age and values drift, DC offset could be at a high enough point to cause increased 2nd harmonic distortion, even though the levels are not high enough to trip the amp's protection circuitry. A complete restoration, that includes a few parts upgrades and rebiasing would bring the amp up to original performance or better.

A301/A501 Spec sheet (sorry its the best quality available):


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

There are a few places that can work on them and re-store them to brand new or better condition than before, but it will cost at about $300 + shipping and up.

I had an old Carver amp TFM-35, which worked fine. I sold it pretty cheap since I didn't want to spend the $$$ to restore it. Sometimes its cheaper to go with a newer amp.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

I know one old SAE tech who will restore a 301 for under $300, shipping included. The job includes new low-ESR main filter caps, Elna Silmic II and Nichicon Muse caps, new differential transistors and associated circuit parts (to zero DC offset) new output protection circuit parts, film cap upgrades, rebiasing, and 24-hour burn-in on the bench.


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

Glen B said:


> I know one old SAE tech who will restore a 301 for under $300, shipping included. The job includes new low-ESR main filter caps, Elna Silmic II and Nichicon Muse caps, new differential transistors and associated circuit parts (to zero DC offset) new output protection circuit parts, film cap upgrades, rebiasing, and 24-hour burn-in on the bench.


That's not a bad deal at all. :T


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

So 300 for a restore... How much would I expect to spend on a new one of comparable quality?


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

swatkins said:


> So 300 for a restore... How much would I expect to spend on a new one of comparable quality?


Price will range between $300 to thousands of dollars depending on the brand.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

Seconded. You've gotten the amp for free. $270 -$300 is not too much to spend if you plan on keeping it. What cosmetic condition is it in ? Have pics ?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

swatkins said:


> So 300 for a restore... How much would I expect to spend on a new one of comparable quality?


I guess that depends on what you want to pay for a name. This Emotiva XPA-200 is very comparable and I would suspect cleaner sounding than the SAE as it stands as the technology has improved a lot over the years.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

Component parts have improved over the years but modern amplifiers still employ the dual differential full complementary circuit topology developed by the late Jim Bongiorno, designer of early SAE, Dynaco, SUMO, GAS (Great American Sound), and Ampzilla. That has not changed in 35+ years. Short signal paths, modular design, high quality circuit boards, etc. has existed in SAE amps from way back. Put the schematics of an SAE amp side by side with that of many modern amps, and you will see little difference in the general design. I have listened to the fully restored SAE amps in my main system, and they compare very well against my Classe gear. A fully and expertly restored SAE amp with upgraded parts where it counts can and does benefit tremendously from the improved parts quality.


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

The amp is really in good shape cosmetically. Just a few nicks on the front handle. From what I can see of the insides, through the various holes, it looks to be cleaner than most computer cases


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

Glen B said:


> I know one old SAE tech who will restore a 301 for under $300, shipping included. The job includes new low-ESR main filter caps, Elna Silmic II and Nichicon Muse caps, new differential transistors and associated circuit parts (to zero DC offset) new output protection circuit parts, film cap upgrades, rebiasing, and 24-hour burn-in on the bench.


 Would you mind PM'ing me the tech's contact information?


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Looks very nice, plug it in, warm it up and listen/look for issues, smoke pouring forth would be a bad sign. 
If no issues, grab an old speaker and a source and let er rip.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> I would suspect cleaner sounding than the SAE as it stands as the technology has improved a lot over the years.


Hi Tony,

Unless the SAE is malfunctioning, there is no reason to suspect this. My money would be on no one being able to differentiate them in a controlled test, driving a typical/benign load.
Hard to believe someone was going to toss that :huh:

cheers


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I fully agree but if he is going to spend $300 "upgrading it" it becomes less reasonable.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> I fully agree but if he is going to spend $300 "upgrading it" it becomes less reasonable.


Well, then it comes down to the appearance factor. I kinda like the beefy retro coolness of the SAE. 
Power meters too


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

I was wondering about the heat out put of this amp. Do these amps output a constant amount of heat or does the heat increase under load?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

It will put out a fair bit of heat sitting idle but it will get hotter under load. I am fairly sure that amp is only convection cooling so it will need room to breath.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

SAE amps have generous sized, effcient cooling, so I would not be worried. The "fingers" in the 301 and 501 heatsinks provide a high total surface area, and are oriented for maximum airflow.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

swatkins said:


> The amp is really in good shape cosmetically. Just a few nicks on the front handle. From what I can see of the insides, through the various holes, it looks to be cleaner than most computer cases


Its in nice condition. Its hard to believe someone was tossing it. 



swatkins said:


> Would you mind PM'ing me the tech's contact information?


PM sent.


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

That's a very nice layout  

But I am now going to have to rethink my "Mini Rack" idea... My first home theater used a Computer to play disks and control the video output out to my Sony HS10 and my Denon receiver controlled the sound side of things.. As a result I had only a few boxes to rack and everything fit in under 30 inches.

In my new theater I had planed on about the same amount of space and had planned to make a small rack that would rotate and fit under the desk area I am building behind my first row of seats on a riser. 

This AMP looks like it really needs open area under both sides of the unit to supply cool air..


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

You could always install a cooling fan like I have in my enclosed HT system rack. It runs 24/7 to draw out the significant heat produced by two digital cable boxes, is speed adjustable and inaudible. Bought from this guy:

http://stores.ebay.com/AV-Cabinet-Cooling


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

I have been running an SAE A502 in my office system on average 8 hours a day, 5 days a week for the last 10 years. The Computer-Direct Line was their last series. It was divided into the 01 and 02 lines. The 01 was the higher end audiophile gear. The 02 was the regular line. So this means they had the P101 preamp, E101 parametric equalizer, T101 tuner, D101 CD, C101 cassette and four amps; A201, A301, A501 and A1001. 

They were very high end back in the 80's. That they still hold their own today against newer gear is a testimate to their design and build quality.

If you're ever over San Antonio way stop by for some music, a movie or a cold drink. I'll even put the SAE amp on the bench and check it out for you. I used to collect SAE gear and still have two SAE systems. Even knew James Bongiorno for over a decade. May he rest in peace. I was his webmaster.


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

Wardsweb said:


> If you're ever over San Antonio way stop by for some music, a movie or a cold drink. I'll even put the SAE amp on the bench and check it out for you. I used to collect SAE gear and still have two SAE systems. Even knew James Bongiorno for over a decade. May he rest in peace. I was his webmaster.


Thanks for the offer! I will keep that in mind if I find myself going that way.. Probably won't happen for a while as work is keeping me in the Houston College Station area...


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

Glen B said:


> You could always install a cooling fan like I have in my enclosed HT system rack. It runs 24/7 to draw out the significant heat produced by two digital cable boxes, is speed adjustable and inaudible. Bought from this guy:
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/AV-Cabinet-Cooling


 This amp has really thrown my plans into the toilet  I have been building this house for about 5 years and designing it for 6 so many configurations have been looked at. I even have two enclosed full sized racks that could be used but I was really hoping not to have things out in the open.. 

Another problem I have is my wife and her overly sensitive, in my opinion, ears! My last theater was impossible to construct so that she would not hear my programs... THIS time around I was ready for her! In the large picture you see the front of our new home. My theater room and computer office is on the right and has a 5' breeze way that separates the two areas.. I even poured independent slabs for the main house and my area! The only place the two building touch is the roof and I figure I can always add more sound control there if needed... So far she has only heard a little base when I had the volume REALLY loud


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## PCMusicGuy (Jan 7, 2011)

Nice home in a beautiful area. I like to drive over on FM3090; great hills and curves. Hope everything works out for you with the SAE amp.


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

Thanks! It's a really nice area to live. Its out in the country yet close enough to everywhere. In 45 minutes I can be in Brenham, College Station, Conroe, Tomball or Cypress North Houston. We do all our shopping in College Station, less traffic and hassle! Best thing is we are located in Grimes county with lower taxes, insurance and best of all no inspectors to tell me what I can build


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## swatkins (Nov 26, 2013)

Back on this amp...

In order to future proof the rack I am building I was wondering if installing this amp is going to lead to me wanting a rack of amps for all the speakers... I'd really hate to lock myself into one design if I become addicted to amplifiers!


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