# Don't laugh at me, but I need a BUDGET (e.i. Low-end) suggestion :/



## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Edit: I posted a poll regarding my speaker options in the recommendations section, figuring it would be easier for members to give their input that way. Go vote! lol


Hi. I'm new here, and I can see that you guys are very knowledgeable and also very passionate about home theater. I came across this site because it's surprisingly difficult to find good reviews and advice on the internet. 

Here's my current situation (bear with me): First off, some background. I'm a (relatively) poor, married college student, so keep that in mind. On a whim, we bought a projector on Craiglist this summer without expecting to use it for much more than the occasional outdoor movie night. It's a Panasonic PT-AE900U (720p/1080i 3LCD), and although I know it's not top of the line, we have found that we love it and actually use it all the time in our basement. But here's the issue (don't laugh): We are currently using low-end PC speakers with the projector! They work, but that's about it. The most annoying thing is that you can't turn them up or down unless you get up and walk to the front right speaker and do so manually (that’s right, I’m living in the 60’s). Well, there is one exception to that. I also have the projector hooked to my PC, so if we watch DVDs using Windows Media Center, we can use my wireless mouse/keyboard as a remote control. So I told you all that to show you where I am coming from and to give you some perspective on my VERY LOW expectations. Note: We are even somewhat satisfied with this ridiculous setup! So with that in mind, maybe I came to the wrong place, because components in my price range won't even be on your radar and you may not have much knowledge about them. But I figured it’s worth a shot.

What I’m looking to buy: I need a Blu-ray player, receiver with HDMI in/out (or receiver/Blu-ray combo), and speakers (5.1 is the goal). The goal is to get surround sound that is not terrible and, of course, to be able to control it all with a remote (imagine that). I’m not worried about cranking it super loud, but I would like it to bring the movie more to life than the PC speakers do. The budget: Probably extremely low, such as $150-$350 (or however much I can convince my wife to spend…so probably toward the middle of that range). So I know this sounds like an impossible budget right now, but my strategy would be to buy used/refurbished on sites like ebay, amazon, Craigslist, the classifieds here, etc. I’m not very knowledgeable, but I’m just going to guess that speaker technology hasn’t changed much in the last 5 years, but I’m sure receivers and Blu-rays have. If I could get good quality low-mid range stuff for cheap because it’s a few years old, I am perfectly cool with that. I have seen various 5.1 HTiB systems on ebay for that price, but I know they are frowned upon and probably overpriced. I just want to get the most for my (small amount of) money and not get ripped off, but I don’t have the knowledge to differentiate between a good buy and a rip-off. That’s why I’m here. 

Here’s some other helpful info: My setup is in a basement that is carpeted and is technically 25x10.5x7’, but only one side is dedicated to the theater area (roughly 14x10.5x7’). The other side is kind of an office area where my desktop PC is located. I do have an HDMI cable ran from my PC to the projector and I would like to continue to utilize that for various reasons. The room is carpeted (berber carpet, no padding), and the walls and ceiling are drywall (textured, minimal/no insulation). The projector is on a shelf above the couch and it shoots onto an Epson Duet wall-mounted projector screen (16:9; ~70x39"). It’s on the long wall, so we sit less than 10’ from the picture. I would probably prefer to mount the speakers on the walls/ceiling (don’t worry about factoring in bracket cost, I’m good at finding ways around that), but I guess floor/bookshelf speakers are an option too. Oh, and my main use would be movies. I’m not worried about music, random Blu-ray apps, or gaming. I just want my movies (such as Lord of the Rings – my favorite) to sound as good as possible.

So if you guys can recommend some slightly outdated lower end stuff I can purchase that would be the best use of my minimal money, that would be awesome. My local Craigslist is Toledo, OH, which always has a ton of random old speakers on it. However, I never know which ones are good and which are garbage. Thanks guys!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi and welcome to the Shack Jon,

In your budget this MartinLogan system is about the best you will ever find. Its only $349 and thats $450 off the regular price. MartinLogan is well known to make very good speakers so its a win win for you  
Do you have a receiver that you can use to power the speakers?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If you dont have a receiver then this complete package including the receiver is going to do much better than what you have now.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
For $350, I would start off with an AVR and a single pair of quality speakers. I would go with the Onkyo TX-NR609 from Accessories4less. It is available there for $287 ($599 MSRP) and offers an excellent Video Processor and THX Post Processing and an Amplifier Stage that shames many $1000 AVR's.

For Speakers the SVS SBS-02's are speakers we recommended when they cost $300 for the pair. They are now being blown out for $149 a pair. Here is the link: http://www.svsound.com/speakers/s-series/sbs-02

While the total is slightly more than $350 ($436), the MSRP is $899 and both at full MSRP represent stellar value. When more funds are available, the matching Center Channel is available for $99.
If needing to stick strictly to under $350, you could get a less expensive AVR, but the Marvell Qdeo Video Processor will really help to bring out the best in your Front Projector and the AVR has 6 HDMI Inputs.
Cheers,
JJ


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

First off welcome to the Shack, nobody here will laugh at you we all have to start somewhere and not everybody has the funds to just go out and spend 5k on a system, me personally im on a very tight budget and slowly trying to piece my system together. Check this link out like Jungle Jack mentioned earlier and I got my LG BD610 blu ray player on eBay for 24 dollars nothing fancy but it works well and I just looked online and they plenty for around the same price. :T 
http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/HomeAudio/Home-Audio/3.html


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Welcome to HTS! :wave:

+1 - definitely remember we all started somewhere. And, I agree with JJ's take - I would go with the AVR and L/R to start. A good 2 channel system will blow a mediocre 5.1 system out of the water. When I switched from a Bose Acoustimass 10 system (listed as a 5.1) to a pair a Emp Tek towers (e55Ti), I was floored by how much better they sounded. The 609 he suggested is a fantastic value.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

The Onkyo S7400 looks good, but I'm not sure I can talk my wife into spending $350 plus shipping and I would still have to buy a Blu-ray player. It looks like a great deal though. It was already in my ebay watchlist from the same seller, but I wasn't sure if it was a good buy or not (I knew that Onkyo was well regarded, in general). 

As far as starting with a 2-speaker system for now, I can see how that makes a lot of sense, but I would probably rather get a slightly lower-level 5.1 system and have surround sound right away for cheap and then do a full system upgrade in 2 or 3 years, once I'm out of school and working more. At that point I would probably splurge on a decent system in general and I could move this older system into another room. 

That brings up two other issues. 1) What lower-level/older Blu-ray would you recommend? I don't care about apps, wi-fi, etc. I just want it to do a reasonably good job playing the disks' audio and video. and 2) As far as a receiver with multiple HDMI inputs, does a small HDMI switch box degrade the signal quality in any way? I have a 3-input HDMI switcher that I use now and I am perfectly okay with having to use a separate remote to switch between the cable box, Blu-ray, and PC. I'm assuming it doesn't degrade the signal since it's digital. If I can use this I could theoretically use an older receiver that only has 1 HDMI input.

Thanks for your responses though guys. I guess I would be curious what systems you would recommend that aren't currently in production anymore. Like systems I could buy used on ebay or craigslist. I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who are upgrading and selling their older, slightly outdated system. Which is all I'm really looking for right now. And yes, I do need an AVR, and not just speakers.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Hmmm...I posted that reply before I saw the other couple of responses. So is everyone basically in agreement that a good 2-speaker system will make a movie a greater experience than a lower level 5.1 system? 

Also, what about the Onkyo HT-3400 or 3500? Is that dropping the bar too far and a waste of money?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I am still using a Panasonic BD 60 and it can be found for well under $100 now It is a stellar player and have not had one issue with it playing any BluRays.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

JonWJ said:


> Hmmm...I posted that reply before I saw the other couple of responses. So is everyone basically in agreement that a good 2-speaker system will make a movie a greater experience than a lower level 5.1 system?
> 
> Also, what about the Onkyo HT-3400 or 3500? Is that dropping the bar too far and a waste of money?


Anything is going to sound better than your computer speakers so the Onkyo systems are a good start but I do agree that the 609 and some good front speakers to start could be a better way to go in the long run.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Blu-ray Players are becoming unbelievably inexpensive. An Open Box can be found for around $50. The Speakers that are bundled in HTIB's (Home Theater in a Box) pale in comparison to something like the SVS SBS-02.

In truth, most folks will settle with such HTIB's to meet a certain budget, but it truly is just that. Settling. I understand the desire to enjoy Surround Sound. However, there are modes that approximate Surround Sound with 2 Speakers. In addition, you could always look at Goodwill, a Garage Sale, Pawn Shop, Craigslist, etc for an ultra cheap pair of Speakers to be used for Surrounds until funds present.
Cheers,
JJ


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

My son has an inexpensive Sony HTIB and uses his PS3 as the Blu-Ray player.
His system does not sound like mine but it does much better than I ever expected it to and I have watched several movies at his place.
On such a tight budget i think the HTIB is a good way to go and the more multi channel systems that get put into use benefits everyone by increasing the demand for streaming services to include multichannel sound on more offerings.
Check this out http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882120200&name=Home-Theater-in-a-Box and any cheap blu-ray player or your PS3 will work fine.


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

Though there are more options in speakers: JJ is dead on.

Yes. At your budget: you will get farther at 2 or 2.1 than trying to squeeze 5.1 in. SQ will, i think, be too low. 

The used market would be a great source, but there is reasonably extensive background knowledge required to sort wheat from chaff there. 

I would strongly consider a pair of primus 363s ($210 on sale) or, better, an older primus 36x for half that used. Add a receiver from accessories4less, the needed cables from monoprice, and (if you have the remaining funds) a sub (perhaps a dayton).

Not only is this the best rig now (primus 36x will run sans subs reasonably), but you are in a good position for incremental upgrades (add a sub, add another, replace fronts).

To give you some idea, my main 2channel speakers are heavily modified primus 360s, and I am using 362s as surrounds in a system with $2000 fronts and a $1000 sub.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Well you guys have sold me on the 609, especially when you said it will make my picture look a lot better. But I'm pretty sure that with our budget, my wife wouldn't let me get away with spending ~$315 on a receiver and then still having to spend another 200+ minimum on speakers and a Blu-ray player. 

Also, if I bought an okay receiver and hooked 2 good speakers to the front and then 2-3 random junk speakers and a poor sub which I bought on Craigslist or w/e to it, that wouldn't make it sound worse than just using the 2 speakers alone? I'm assuming you would make some sort of settings change from stereo to 5.0 or 5.1 in order to use these. It just seems like the poor speakers would take some the burden from the quality speakers and it would end up sounding almost worse. But of course, I have no idea how any of this works.

Well I think, barring some sort of miracle ebay or Craigslist post by someone who has no clue as to the value of what they are selling, the 609 is sadly out of my price range at this point. So what would be option B? Is there a lower level Onkyo AVR or HTiB set I should consider? I have heard or read somewhere that Denon is good too. I saw a Denon 1612 for $180 the other day. Even that and a set of $150 speakers plus shipping and a Blu-ray would be pushing my budget...:sad:

When I go to the Toledo Craigslist site and and search "speakers" or "theater" (I would like to post the link, but I'm not allowed because I'm a newbie) I get a ton of older speaker sets popping up that I could possibly pair with a decent AVR, but I have no idea which are a good deal. Am I correct in assuming that speaker technology doesn't change very quickly and buying used speakers is a good option with my budget?


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Sorry, I can't keep up with you guys. Every time I take the time to type out a new reply, there are two others that I haven't read yet that kind of answer what I'm currently typing. It's nice to have such an active forum. :T


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Speakers 5 (no .1) $270 http://www.fluance.com/fluanceavhtb.html
Receiver Onkyo $120 http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...hannel-3-D-Ready-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

Plus shipping.

I know is not "home theater" but you can also simply upgrade your "computer" speakers to a pair of AudioEngine 2's. Its not surround sound but it will sound better, probably.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Thanks Andre (and everyone else). That setup seems like a reasonable suggestion. I still would like to get some help with exploring the used/refurbished market. It just seems like that's always a great route to go when looking for electronics on a budget. I've done it many times before with cameras, computers parts, and all kinds of electronics. Like I said, getting what was touted as sounding and looking great, let's say two years ago, will still sound good to my ears in 2012 and can save me a ton of money.

For instance, I'm sure these aren't high-end, but maybe they are a good deal for me...A guy near me is selling 4 Polk T-15 bookshelf speakers including the stands and wires for $200 on Craigslist. I don't know the model number, but he said he would throw in a "top of the line" Pioneer center channel speaker. I'm sure I could talk him down a few bucks to $175 or $150. Then I could pair it with an under $200 AVR (like a Denon, or a cheaper used one) and could tack on basic Blu-ray player and maybe a sub. I'm assuming something like this would sound better than a 2012 model HTiB that costs $350. It just seems like buying older speakers is the way to go for me, but I have no idea how to tell whats good. There are also tons of old, hideous looking floor speakers for sale that can probably still perform well, but I get the feeling my wife would throw those out to the curb, lol. 

I mean, I guess the T15's aren't that old, but there are tons of other options like a pair of JBL N26II's bookshelf speakers (circa 2003 I think) for $30 on there. And I could probably get them for $20. There's a Kenwood 5.1 system with a powered sub for $100obo...Some random monstrous JBL floor speakers for $200, but it says "make an offer", and some Infinity Entra One bookshelves for dirt cheap. You see what I mean? I'm sure you guys have been buying speakers for more than a few years and could point me in the right direction on what to look for in the used market. 

It also seems like, if I could manage to find one, that a 1st-gen HDMI AVR might make sense too. I'm not worried about features, just picture and video quality. I know you guys have got to have systems that are at least a couple years old and would be able to tell me what models you think still perform well, even if it doesn't have all the bells and whistles. I really appreciate all the help you've given so far though.


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

I just don't think I'd go used on a video receiver. The cost of new ($120 was linked earlier) is too low, and the potential for problem is too high... esp in this range.

Hunting used (someone else can comment on those Polk and JBLs perhaps, I haven't listened to either); you are likely best to find a good, popular brand (or three) that's been around a while (not good you don't want, and not-popular is hard to find) and find some local (so you can listen before pickup)... hence my suggestion of the Infinity Primus line (though there are others that other people here can recommend).

IMO, and in most cases, a sub comes before center/surround on the hierarchy of needs.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

JonWJ said:


> Well you guys have sold me on the 609, especially when you said it will make my picture look a lot better. But I'm pretty sure that with our budget, my wife wouldn't let me get away with spending ~$315 on a receiver and then still having to spend another 200+ minimum on speakers and a Blu-ray player.
> 
> Also, if I bought an okay receiver and hooked 2 good speakers to the front and then 2-3 random junk speakers and a poor sub which I bought on Craigslist or w/e to it, that wouldn't make it sound worse than just using the 2 speakers alone? I'm assuming you would make some sort of settings change from stereo to 5.0 or 5.1 in order to use these. It just seems like the poor speakers would take some the burden from the quality speakers and it would end up sounding almost worse. But of course, I have no idea how any of this works.
> 
> ...


Hello,
The 609 is $269 at AC4L. You could also get the Onkyo HT-RC360 for $239 that uses the same Video Processor. Add in the aforementioned SBS-02's and you would be at $389. 

I would not recommend getting an absolute junk Subwoofer just for the sake of having one. Rather, as with the Center Channel and Surrounds, add one when funds present. With the matching CC costing $99 and Surrounds costing $149, I would imagine there will be times in the future when these can be upgraded. The reason I brought up Goodwill et al was to simply provide you with stopgap Surrounds.

For a Subwoofer, I only wish Dayton still offered the Sub120 which cost around $150. They have replaced it with the Sub 1200 which I have not had a chance to listen to. Here is a link:http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-629 It costs $109 and if it is 90% as good as the Sub 120, it will be an wonderful Subwoofer.

If you follow a path like this, you will be looking at each upgrade costing no more than $150 and most of them around $100 and will have a quality HT. HTIB's, on the whole, simply offer pretty bad Speakers. The thing is Speakers are the heart of ones HT and their importance cannot be overstated.
Cheers,
JJ


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I think the buy the best you can now and add later is a good way to go, but you have to be realistic about the money and when more may be available for frivolous expenditures. 
To me it sounds like the budget is being stretched to get $300 for this type of purchase.
There is nothing wrong with an inexpensive HTIB when funds are this tight.
When you get out of school and are working full time you can get something better and if you no longer want the HTIB you can give it away or even throw it away and feel like the enjoyment you got from it was well worth the price.
I agree with your initial instinct to get surround sound now.
As far as buying used, I think it is risky even when you know what you are buying. Since you are not in that situation I would be very hesitant to recommend that route for you.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

If I had a rule of thumb looking for HT speakers on craigs list
1. Buy a brand that just makes speakers i.e. Polk > Kenwood
2. Buy matching front speakers i.e. the Left Right and Centre channel should be the same make and preferably use the same drivers.
3. Get the model number a google a reveiw or two
4. Listen before you buy

If your going to craigslist a receiver make sure its not too old. i.e it has TrueHD vice Dolby prologic. Buy a well known brand (Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha)
Listen before you Buy, does it work?

I personally am a lemon magnet so I don't buy electronics used. Speakers are different, either they work or they don't

As for a blu ray, craigslist a PS3


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

1. Concludes that Pioneer and Infinity don't make good low-end speakers, when in fact they are terrific speakers at their price.
2. I don't run a center at all on my multi-thousand-dollar rig. Phantom works surprisingly well in smaller rooms. (but I agree: if you run one, match it to the fronts)
3. Trust your review source.
4. If at all possible, yes: but remember that it may sound different in your room. Sometimes there's validity in "trusting the experienced people" enough to actually try it in your room.

Here's my problem with used receivers: I've gotten some subtly bad ones. Good brand, good model, some form of intermittent electrical problem is how it ended up on cragislist in the first place.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I get the fact that the OP is looking to run with a 5.1 set-up. I started off with this Polk 5.1 set-up and we loved it... had friends come over to watch movies and they couldn't believe what great sound came from these sat speakers. 

I know it's all relative... everyone has their opinions... everyone is coming from different vantage points in terms of both budget, experience, and expectations. I've stated this a lot, I think Polk is great company. I've owned lots of various Polk speakers over the last 20 years. They make a wide range of speakers from higher end to accessible to all. They stand behind their products - and they keep to their mission of keeping great sound in reach of all wether you are looking entry level or reaching for more exotic tech.

You can look on amazon and newegg... there are a ton of really satisfied users. I wouldn't hesitate to suggested it, and at $180, it's a drop dead steal. You can buy separate mounts for the speakers (they are also self mountable).

Pick-up the RM6750 package, fetch a LG 610 bluray player off of ebay for $60 or $70 bucks... spend $30 on cables from monoprice.com... that leaves you with some $ to spend on one of the AVRs being suggested... I think you'd be really happy. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Well as far as reviews are concerned, that's kind of what led me here. I had a surprisingly hard time finding reviews for a lot of products online. 

As far as starting with a $300-400 2.0 system and slowly upgrading. I can see how that makes sense in the long run. However, unless a good 2.0 system really brings a movie to life better than a lower level 5.1 system, I don't think I like that option. Here's the two reasons why: Firstly, in less than two years I'll be graduated and making a six figure salary as a pharmacist and I would probably get a truly good system then and move this older system to a bedroom or something. And second, my wife wouldn't be a fan of me putting $100-200 dollars into the system periodically over the next couple years. I can hear her now, "You want to spend another $150 on more theater stuff?!?! You just spent $400 on that stuff a few months ago!" I would be better off spending more money at once than putting money into it multiple times, from her perspective. Idk why, but I know she would get annoyed by that. 

As far as buying a used receiver. I can see why you guys would shy away from that. First off, I would never buy a used item from someone if I got the feeling they were trying to hide something. I would only buy from people I got a certain impression from. Like with Craigslist you often catch women who just got a divorce or have weird situations where they just want to get rid of perfectly good stuff for some reason because they don't know how to use it, or they didn't originally buy it or whatever. Those are the type of people I buy electronics from on there. Not the shady kid who has a whole garage of "like new" electronics. But all that aside, I can see why buying a used receiver is a risk and I was mainly looking to buy used speakers. And I understand that I am not well qualified to know which are good, so that's why I thought you all could give some recommendations. Which you have (thank you).

So here are some options I was thinking about. What if I bought a new receiver? Probably nothing more expensive than the Onkyo HT-RC360, if not, a cheaper Onkyo or Denon (recommendations please). And then I buy a used set of well respected speakers (I'm not exactly sure what this means). For instance, some of the options I've seen are an older 5.1 set by Yamaha (I believe it's a NS-AP2800 speaker set with a YST-SW012BL subwoofer) for under $100, or the Polk T15's I mentioned earlier for around $150, or something else similar.

Does this sound like a good plan, or would I be better off buying an HTiB like the factory refurbished Onkyo HT-S7400 for $350, or the HT-S5400 for $258, or the HT-S3500 for $220? Is it better to buy the HT-RC360 and pair it with some used speakers to avoid potential weird HTiB hookups and such? I'm assuming the 360 does a much better job with the audio/video. What do you guys think?


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

I feel like the Polk T15's with all the wires and stands is a steal. Of course I would have to add a new center speaker (if the included Pioneer isn't any good) and a subwoofer. And idk if the Yamaha set is any good, but it seems like a decent set for the price. It would include the sub and center speaker, and the wires too. I feel like, as long as I listened to them and they sounded good and were in good condition, that pairing a used set like this with a good receiver is the way to get the most for my money. Opinions? :huh:

Edit: Actually, I may not need a sub right away with the Polks since they each have a built-in bass port...


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

No rules are absolute but:

Yes. A good 2-channel system makes a more immersive movie experience than a bad 5 channel system.

LFE, volume, and reasonable FR are more important than having a pair of speakers beside you creating envelopment. 

Your mileage may vary.

Try it. Walk into your nearest Best buy and go over to the magnolia section. Find a setup (perhaps some B&W CM's) either without surrounds or turning off surround. Turn it up and see what you think of better-quality 2-channel.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Looking at Toledo's craigslist, there is nothing I would spend my money on. In the "nearby" I saw these

http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/ele/3352176404.html


however, I would probably still spend the extra $ on the Fluance (they may have a shipping promtion going)


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

JonWJ said:


> I feel like the Polk T15's with all the wires and stands is a steal. Of course I would have to add a new center speaker (if the included Pioneer isn't any good) and a subwoofer. And idk if the Yamaha set is any good, but it seems like a decent set for the price. It would include the sub and center speaker, and the wires too. I feel like, as long as I listened to them and they sounded good and were in good condition, that pairing a used set like this with a good receiver is the way to get the most for my money. Opinions? :huh:
> 
> Edit: Actually, I may not need a sub right away with the Polks since they each have a built-in bass port...



That's not a bad deal... I've not heard the T15's myself, you'd have to go give them a listen. As for that pioneer center, skip it. They won't be sonically matched... I'd imagine you'd be better off without it. You could always find the center match for them elsewhere at another time. 

Without a sub, bookshelf speakers aren't to going to knock your socks off in the low end. Just fact of design. Seriously, tho, you're coming from computer speakers... so you'll probably be enjoying the fullness of a bookshelf and probably won't care that the sub isn't there.

I think there is definitely some credence to the notion that you might enjoy a 2.1 set-up more than a surround package... it really just depends on what the speakers are.

You are getting opinions that are all over the map... at the end of the day, you're looking to squeeze as much as you can out of your budget.

Still, all this being said, assuming you are looking purely for a set-up for movies... you're interested in getting into the surround world on limited coin (and I say that with total respect)... if I were you, I'd snatch up an older name brand BD player off of ebay (I'm sure you could snag one for about 50 bucks)... I'd pick up the Polk 5.1 RM6750 package for $149... and then I'd get a budget AVR... go to monoprice for some cables... and roll with it. I can almost guarantee it would get you to where you are wanting to go, it would last you until you are ready - if the time ever comes - to invest more and your wife would be happy. We used our RM6750's for about 3 years... It worked out really well. Nice immersive sound. Obviously the sub doesn't dig down low like $500-$600 sub would, but it gives you a nice warmth and can pound a little bit... you stated that you're not interested in blowing up your room with volume... and the space isn't that large. I think you'd be happy.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Where is that system available for $149? I only see it at Newegg for $200.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Yeah, you're right... The price went up. Check newegg on Sunday. They usually have a sale.

Strange though, I saw it for $149!


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Okay, someone mentioned the Martin Logan MLT-1 set for $350. Newegg is running a promo for the next couple days on the bigger MLT-2 set for only $299 (using the given promo code) and free shipping! Is that a steal? I'm not very familiar with their products. 

The main differences I see between the MLT-1 & 2 is the 2 has a bigger sub, larger speakers in the surrounds, and that the nominal impedance on the MLT-1 set is compatible with 4, 6, or 8 Ohm amps and the 2 is only compatible with 8 Ohm. I don't understand the whole Ohm thing. Would that require me to buy a high-end AVR? 

What is your opinion on this set. If the MLT-1 is as good as the reviewers say it is, then getting the bigger MLT-2 set for even cheaper seems like an absolute steal! It is still likely out of my price range, but you know how women can't resist the urge to jump on a good sale, lol. Maybe I could talk my wife into it if I emphasize that it's a $1,000 quality set for only $299. 

Also, how would this set compare to the Pioneer SP-PK21BS 5.1 set? This set was highly touted on CNET last year. Is the bigger MLT-2 still out of its league? (Respond fast, this promo ends in a day or 2!) Thanks guys.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

JonWJ said:


> Okay, someone mentioned the Martin Logan MLT-1 set for $350. Newegg is running a promo for the next couple days on the bigger MLT-2 set for only $299 (using the given promo code) and free shipping! Is that a steal? I'm not very familiar with their products.


Thats an absolutely stellar deal! MartinLogan has been around for many many years and is highly regarded in the Hi-Fi industry. The reason you probably have not heard of them is because they normally only sell product in Boutique high end stores due to the quality.
For $299 jump on it without hesitation :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Thats an absolutely stellar deal! MartinLogan has been around for many many years and is highly regarded in the Hi-Fi industry. The reason you probably have not heard of them is because they normally only sell product in Boutique high end stores due to the quality.
> For $299 jump on it without hesitation :T


Hello,
As a decade long ML Owner, I do have some misgivings about them offering HTIB's. I thought it was surreal when they were making non Electrostatic Speakers as for decades Martin Logan meant Electrostats. For them now to be offering HTIB's is quite shocking.

Then again, once ML was sold to ShoreView, everything changed. While they call themselves "The Great American Speaker Company" now even the $25,000 CLX's are Made in Canada and the bulk of it is Made in China. For $300, I still think you would be better served getting Infinity Primus or the SVS's I have mentioned multiple times. 

Considering each upgrade with the HT is laid out is around $100, I really think it is the direction to go considering just how much higher the speaker quality is. Regardless, good luck and I hope you enjoy whatever you end up going with.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hey Jack, I agree they are not what they used to be however given the price of the MLT-2 system and the specifications it would seem that they are still better then most HTIB speaker systems I have seen. I bet they would be just as good as the $1200 Monitor audio speaker system.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Hey Jack, I agree they are not what they used to be however given the price of the MLT-2 system and the specifications it would seem that they are still better then most HTIB speaker systems I have seen. I bet they would be just as good as the $1200 Monitor audio speaker system.


What?!!! The MA MASS HTIB is the single greatest sounding Speaker System ever and honestly slays anything short of a $28,000 Reference System. The MASS's mighty 4 inch Woofers can easily go down to 80hz with aplomb.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hee hee
I do think for $299 the MLT-2 would be hard to beat.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Hee hee
> I do think for $299 the MLT-2 would be hard to beat.


Hello,
I agree if absolutely positively having to get 5.1 all at once for under $500 with the AVR. However, it would be such a downgrade to me compared to a quality 2.0 setup with easy $100 steps towards having a 5.1 setup in time.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Jon - Go for it... there's really only one way you'll find out, that's getting it in your room.

I think you'd be more than happy with any of the 5.1 packaged systems. You, better than anyone else, knows your budget and your needs. IF you think that this initial investment is just a spring board to bigger purchases and upgrades in future years, then I'd probably go with the 2.1 suggestion... but if you're looking for some surround action, nice immersive sound, some low end warmth and dips into LFE... I think you will be more than happy with the Polk or ML boxed-sets.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Well I would have to look again at the SVS's, but I can't find an older Primus set online anywhere and I also can't find the 363's you mentioned for anything close to $210/pair like you said. They are close to $200 each. I wouldn't expect a $299 HTiB to sound as good as a very nice floor set, but you have to remember that for $300 (which is a splurge for us) I would be done spending money on speakers for a while. I'm not going for IMAX here, just a decent movie watching experience. It seems like if I went with the Primus set and incrementally upgraded it that I would easily be spending $700 by the time I get up to a 5.1 setup. And it would take a while to get there. I'm sure $700 is a great deal for that setup, but it's really overkill for my expectations/needs. Not to mention, I really don't think my wife wants monster floor speakers sitting around, no matter how good they sound. I totally appreciate and respect your opinion, but you have to keep my budget and low expectations in mind.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Jon,
To do the SVS's, it would be $500 for the Mains, Surrounds, and Center Channel. Add in the Dayton Sub 1200 and you would be at $600 for the 5.1 total.

That being said, if you do not think it will be possible to add between $100-$150 for each additional upgrade over time, go with a HTIB Package. i would go with the ML over the Polk, but i am sure both would get the job done. The ML Subwoofer looks much larger than the Polk one.

Best of luck with your decision and please let us know how it works out for you. I really think you have been given some great advice and many different ideas.
All the best,
J


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

The decisions are definitely tough when a budget is a strict cut-off... but, that is a reality for the vast majority of folks. Just the way it is.

In looking at this, the Martin Logan MLT2 system probably would be the top choice... the sub has a 10" woofer...

The two polk systems (RM6750 and the RM705) both have subs with 8" drivers...

All that being, said, having used the RM6750, if $$$ were to push you in that direction, I'm sure you'd be happy. 

The good news is that you are being realistic about where you are going with this. I think any of the 5.1 systems would be good to go... What this comes down to is $ and where you want to allocate it. You're going to need to look at the specs, read the user reviews, and make a choice. The next step is the fun step: Setting it up and lettin'er rip!!!

Good luck


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

Okay guys, I know I've probably driven you crazy so far, but one last speaker question and then I'll make my decision and then start annoying you about AVRs. I have definitely narrowed it down to 3 different, similarly priced speaker packages, and each having possible pro's and con's. I need your input within the next day or so and in order to make my final speaker decision. Here's the options (Not necessarily in any particular order):

*Option A:*

MartinLogan MLT-2 5.1CH Home Theater Speaker System
Here it is
*$299* on Newegg until 10/26 (Normally $499)
Pro's: Seems like a steal compared to the normal price. Larger system. Easily wall-mountable w/o extra hardware (also, don't appear to have rear bass ports). The ML name and reputation(?)
Con's: Sounds too good to be true (why sell a $1000 MSRP set for $299?). A fair number of Newegg customers complained of long-term reliability issues and received damaged products due to poor manufacturer packaging. There was talk of these not being true ML quality, but poor quality Chinese builds backed by the ML name. Basically I'm concerned that this speaker set doesn't live up to ML's reputation.
In spite of my concerns, I know that even the best products will get poor customer reviews, and that a few poor reviews always get more attention than many good reviews.

*Option B:*

Pioneer SP-PK21BS 5.1 system (Would have to piece together the set. Can't find the whole package together, but that's okay)
Very highly regarded by CNET - Take a second to skim the review
Could build it using either the smaller, reviewed SP-BS21-LR speakers in the front, or the larger SP-BS41-LR's up front and the SP-BS21-LR for the surrounds
The center channel is the SP-C21, and the surround is the SW-8.
Price if using 4 of the smaller SP-BS21-LR's = *$299.50*
Price if using 2 of the larger SP-BS41-LR's = *$319.50*
Pro's: Very good reviews on CNET. Fairly well-respected brand. Decent price and easy to find the various speakers online.
Con's: Pretty big (not necessarily a con, but...). Not easy/possible to mount, and if I wanted to mount on a wall, may block rear bass ports. Smaller speakers and sub than the ML system (But the SP-PK41's are bigger than the ML surrounds).
 I like these a lot, but I wonder if the ML system is a better deal. Also, the whole mounting issue would be a little annoying.

*Option C:*

Energy Take Classic 5.1 system (Will probably have to buy the 5.0 system and the sub seprately.)
The 5.0 system is on sale for $150 on Newegg until 10/26 (Normally $200)
Would have to add the highly-touted Energy ESW-8 200W 8" sub (kind of pricey/hard to find) or a different sub.
Could add the previously recommended Dayton sub for $98 (10” 125W SUB-100) or $124 (12” 150W SUB-120)
Total price would be *$250-$300+*, depending on the sub I used.
Pro's: Very highly regarded on CNET (This review talks about these two sets. Editor's pick 2011). Small, stylish system. Easy to mount. Might be the best of both worlds - Definitely are considered good quality, and are smaller and easier to mount than the Pioneer set.
Con's: Although the sound is great for a small set, it can't keep up with larger speakers at high volume (I don't anticipate being extremely concerned about high volume, but you never know and it plays into the decision). The matching sub is hard to find at a good price, and I'm unsure how well a different sub will match with the set (CNET attributes the set's great sound mostly to the ESW-8 sub and how well it's matched to the speakers). These also have rear bass ports, so wall-mounting might affect the SQ a bit.
I'm not sure what to think of this option. The look, mounting convenience, and price are a plus, but Idk if it's worth sacrificing a little SQ, or if it would even be a noticeable SQ difference for my purposes.


Please take just minute to read this and tell me which option of the 3 you would go with if you were in my shoes and maybe a sentence or two why. I would really appreciate it.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If your budget is $300 or less for AVR and speakers the onkyo htib for $279 at newegg should still be under consideration.


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## JonWJ (Oct 21, 2012)

chashint, I appreciate that suggestion. However, I believe I have convinced my wife to splurge a little more on an okay system and a relatively good AVR. I'm kind of leaning toward the Onkyo HT-RC360 as of now, assuming it's a good match for my speakers and projector, and that there isn't a cheaper option that will perform just as well with my equipment. Thank you though.

I also posted a poll in the recommendations section, figuring it would be easier for members to give their input that way. Go vote! lol


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

http://www.frys.com/ads/audio-video-television-cameras-portable-car-electronics

Primus 363 @220/pair until tomorrow night.

Though there are many good speakers that have been listed, and many good packages to choose from.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

You will have to decide if you Will want to wall mount the system eventually. IF Yes, the MLs, if No the Pioneer.

If you are going to wall mount you can also look at a soundbar


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