# Tinnitus (ears ring) subwoofers and electronics



## Guest

I remember a long time ago reading a post somewhere about a guy who's ears would ring after listening to his system. A lot of responders said he was listening too loud, but he said it wasn't very loud.

I was having the same problem. Tried all kinds of changes to the system and room. Subwoofers seem to make it worse (although I tried some very tight high-end ones).

Finally it has turned out that I have classic 'electrical sensitivity' and it has gotten a lot worse. It did get better when I started avoiding all AC magnetic fields and microwave exposure (including cell phones and cordless phones, wi-fi, etc). I can't tolerate dimmer switches or fluorescent lights. I no longer listen to recorded music, even though I would love to.

Subwoofers are not generally video shielded, so they put out a big magnetic field with frequencies overlapping human EEG (brain waves). A lot of high end gear throws out all kinds of 60 Hz and RF interference. I suspect that low-power gear, if well designed would be better, but for now I've given up on what used to be a fun hobby. I may try one of the pocket LED projectors but even the LED lit LCD screens put out too much RFI for me to be in the room and not react.

Unfortunately science has not caught up with this problem (although I'm a Ph.D. physics researcher). I'm sure when it does the high end equipment will boast about how low the RFI they put out is, and give specs. Until then, beware of becoming a gear head; also everyone should be aware that circuit boards and plastic cases emit fumes and shed dust containing neurotoxic flame retardants. 

Anyone have a good Victorola for sale?

Bill :raped:


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## Otto

Hi Bill,

I have tinnitus, but I've never related it as being caused by EMI. How long do I have to be in the mountains before it goes away?


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## Guest

Not all tinnitus is cause by RFI. There is often a delayed reaction, as you imply.
For me I'm usually much improved after 2 days of no exposure. Unfortunately most mountains now have microwave towers. Try a secluded valley. Also, try sleeping with the electricity off for two nights. Unfortunately there's a good chance that of finding many frequencies of ground currents almost anywhere that's on the grid.

It's kind of a long haul but probably the place to start is with a gauss meter
from AlphaLabs or LessEMF.com. The new bioInitiative.org report says we
should all be living at less that 1 milligauss AC field, and probably few of us are.
My personal goal is .02 milligauss (AlphaLabs can add on a 100x probe).
Also, get some kind of microwave detector and try to stay below bioinititiave's
recommended 650 mV/m.
Again my goal is lower: 10 mV/m for sleeping. 

You can also use cheap a portable AM radio to look for broadband sources of
RFI, like keyboards, etc.


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## Sonnie

My tinnitus got seriously bad a few years back, probably 4-5 years ago. For some reason, since then it is not nearly as bad. Although as I sit here and type, I can hear a mild ringing.

When it was really bad there would be a point when I listened to heavy bass, I would hear a weird noise in my ears with the beat... like distortion. The louder I turned it up, the less I noticed it. That doesn't bother like it use to though. :huh:


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## Guest

Low frequencies are the worse for your ears, so it's likely that if you listen with a sub you'll damage your ears more than if you listen without one.
Trimetazidine (Vastarel) can help a bit, but it's no miracle.


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## Guest

I have an issue with very high pitches, and ringing in one ear. the lows don't bother me.


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## Guest

But the cells that transduce high frequencies are the most sensitive, and most likely to be damaged by sound with an high low frequency content.
The cells that transduce low frequency are far less affected, even really old persons can hear to low frequencies.
So, it's the lows that make you deaf to the highs...


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## jackfish

Ringing constantly unless I am very occupied in doing something, gets worse with loud constant noise often driving a car at high speeds, and clicking from the impulse of low sounds is part of my life. Left ear is worse, which just so happens to correspond with the ear with the worst hearing loss. I'm getting used to it.


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## Guest

when i say push these speakers i mean get the best results out of these speakers as in sound quality


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## RollsRoyce

Older folks and others with hearing impairment hear bass frequencies better than high ones as much because lows are transmitted by the bony structures of the skull as they are emphasized due to atrophy of high-frequency hearing. IMHO, I don't think low frequency noise is more damaging. Loud sounds, whether high- or low-frequency, are probably equally damaging. It's just that our hearing is somewhat less sensitive to low frequencies, so given equally loud low and high frequency noise, we are less likely to react adversely (cover our ears, use ear protection, etc.) to the low frequency sound. Of course, a truly loud low-freq sound will cause that reaction, but a high-freq sound will do it at much lower levels.


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## asere

So does listening to movies with sub on cause tinnitus or make tinnitus worse? I have a ringing in my right ear and for now the sub is out of commission. :dontknow:


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## tesseract

I have to wear earplugs at the factory I work at, many people do and it is a good idea in that type of environment. But we have very large punch/presses pounding out formed pieces of metal, the low frequencies can be felt throughout the plant coming up from the floor. Even though we isolate the machines by sitting them atop large isolators, it still cracks the concrete. Earplugs do nothing to block those frequencies, but no one is deaf from it.

The "ringing" happens at the frequency you damaged, mostly higher frequencies, in the range of 500 Hz to 8000 Hz. You damaged those little hairs that pick up that frequency. Saying bass causes tinnitus is an audio myth, within reason, (lower than the threshold of pain) of course. You sit in an SPL Drag Race competition vehicle, there will be consequences. Explosions like artillery and grenades can blow out your eardrums with high level bass frequencies, one reason they have you open your mouth in training, to help equalize the pressure.

Enjoying home theater at sane, or even a little above sane levels, will not cave in your eardrums.


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## asere

tesseract said:


> I have to wear earplugs at the factory I work at, many people do and it is a good idea in that type of environment. But we have very large punch/presses pounding out formed pieces of metal, the low frequencies can be felt throughout the plant coming up from the floor. Even though we isolate the machines by sitting them atop large isolators, it still cracks the concrete. Earplugs do nothing to block those frequencies, but no one is deaf from it.
> 
> The "ringing" happens at the frequency you damaged, mostly higher frequencies, in the range of 500 Hz to 8000 Hz. You damaged those little hairs that pick up that frequency. Saying bass causes tinnitus is an audio myth, within reason, (lower than the threshold of pain) of course. You sit in an SPL Drag Race competition vehicle, there will be consequences. Explosions like artillery and grenades can blow out your eardrums with high level bass frequencies, one reason they have you open your mouth in training, to help equalize the pressure.
> 
> Enjoying home theater at sane, or even a little above sane levels, will not cave in your eardrums.


I'm going to see an ENT in two weeks


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## asere

Well I saw the ENT and he said I have normal to mild hearing loss. Since it is borderline he is not sure if the tinnitus is because of the loss. He placed me on high doses of steroids for 2 weeks in case a viral infection caused this and hope it will get better. He also ordered an MRI to rule out other issues like a tumor. 
I don't use my sub for movies anymore I am afraid to lose more hearing and make the tinnitus worse. I can calibrate to 75db but the sub will have spl spikes higher than that from time to time. I am not sure if there is a correlation or not but I have the sub for a year and now I have this so not sure if sub is the culprit.


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## B- one

asere said:


> Well I saw the ENT and he said I have normal to mild hearing loss. Since it is borderline he is not sure if the tinnitus is because of the loss. He placed me on high doses of steroids for 2 weeks in case a viral infection caused this and hope it will get better. He also ordered an MRI to rule out other issues like a tumor.
> I don't use my sub for movies anymore I am afraid to lose more hearing and make the tinnitus worse. I can calibrate to 75db but the sub will have spl spikes higher than that from time to time. I am not sure if there is a correlation or not but I have the sub for a year and now I have this so not sure if sub is the culprit.


Hopefully everything will be fine and you can go back to enjoy your sub! It looks like you have in ceiling speakers how do they sound without a sub?


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## asere

B- one said:


> Hopefully everything will be fine and you can go back to enjoy your sub! It looks like you have in ceiling speakers how do they sound without a sub?


I hope so. The speakers sound nice but without sub its not the same effect.


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## asere

Today I went ahead and turned the sub on but lower this time and watched The Standup Guys. I can't let the tinnitus take over what I enjoy. This time just be more careful. I am going to get custom made ear plugs to wear like at noisy places just to prevent further damage.


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## tesseract

I'm sorry you are still having trouble, asere. 

Is the sub the root cause, and will earplugs be enough to stop those long wavelengths if it is?


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## asere

tesseract said:


> I'm sorry you are still having trouble, asere.
> 
> Is the sub the root cause, and will earplugs be enough to stop those long wavelengths if it is?


I don't know if the sub can cause damage with the long wavelenghts. I was planning on using the ear plugs like at a noisy restaurant etc.


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## asere

Well I watched a movie with sub on and this time with an spl meter next to me to see if the spikes were huge. Turns out watching at moderate volume the spl stayed below 80db the entire time. This was while watching A Good Day to Die Hard.


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## AudiocRaver

No authority here, but a Mayo Clinic audiologist once told me the main things to watch out for are impact noises - fireworks, gunshots, etc. - and sustained high levels like rock concerts, factories, industrial environments, etc. Airshows, runways, racetracks, obviously bad. Headphones - be careful.

The Etymotic ER-20 plugs work well for concerts. They are not exactly flat, but after a few minutes to acclimatize, the sound is pretty good, and my ears never ring any extra even after a loud show when using them. In an industrial environment, I would use something that filters the high frequencies a lot more.

On an encouraging note, I got some tinnitus fairly early from playing in rock bands and going to concerts, but since being more careful and using earplugs religiously, it has not gotten worse over time, even though I am pushing... Well, we will not go into that.

The 80 dB to 85 dB listening range (short-term averaging) is actually fairly loud and is considered very safe for a few hours a week - two or three movies? And that is where the louder passages end up, most movies have an average overall level that is probably more in the mid-70 dB range. There is a lot of dynamic range though, with systems capable of high SPL's it might only take a few loud effects to strain the ears a bit. I also doubt it is the subwoofer levels that are the cause of the ear ringing. More than likely it is the higher frequencies of the sounds that _feel_ like a LF impact. Then some of us are more sensitive than others, that is a possibility too.

Do any of the commonly available listening mode processors have a peak limiting function to guard against overly loud impacts for those who feel the need for that protection?

Sure hope you can find a listening mode that is satisfying and still protects those little hearing sensors for future use!:sn:


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## asere

AudiocRaver said:


> No authority here, but a Mayo Clinic audiologist once told me the main things to watch out for are impact noises - fireworks, gunshots, etc. - and sustained high levels like rock concerts, factories, industrial environments, etc. Airshows, runways, racetracks, obviously bad. Headphones - be careful.
> 
> The Etymotic ER-20 plugs work well for concerts. They are not exactly flat, but after a few minutes to acclimatize, the sound is pretty good, and my ears never ring any extra even after a loud show when using them. In an industrial environment, I would use something that filters the high frequencies a lot more.
> 
> On an encouraging note, I got some tinnitus fairly early from playing in rock bands and going to concerts, but since being more careful and using earplugs religiously, it has not gotten worse over time, even though I am pushing... Well, we will not go into that.
> 
> The 80 dB to 85 dB listening range (short-term averaging) is actually fairly loud and is considered very safe for a few hours a week - two or three movies? And that is where the louder passages end up, most movies have an average overall level that is probably more in the mid-70 dB range. There is a lot of dynamic range though, with systems capable of high SPL's it might only take a few loud effects to strain the ears a bit. I also doubt it is the subwoofer levels that are the cause of the ear ringing. More than likely it is the higher frequencies of the sounds that feel like a LF impact. Then some of us are more sensitive than others, that is a possibility too.
> 
> Do any of the commonly available listening mode processors have a peak limiting function to guard against overly loud impacts for those who feel the need for that protection?
> 
> Sure hope you can find a listening mode that is satisfying and still protects those little hearing sensors for future use!:sn:


In my case I tested the sub with a 16hz CD and the spl reached 100dB. The walls and windows were rattling. I'm not sure if that is what took me down.


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## Norcuron

I have had ringing in my ears for many years. It doesn't bother me normally but I notice it if its really quiet. I have had multiple hearing tests and have great hearing. I do notice though as I get older it seems like loud music in a car is more annoying. I still love firing up my home theater though.


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## asere

Norcuron said:


> I have had ringing in my ears for many years. It doesn't bother me normally but I notice it if its really quiet. I have had multiple hearing tests and have great hearing. I do notice though as I get older it seems like loud music in a car is more annoying. I still love firing up my home theater though.


Yeah I have a hissing sound that can be annoying in a quiet environment. I still enjoy my home theater but I am now more careful on the volume although I never have it loud to begin with.


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## asere

AudiocRaver said:


> No authority here, but a Mayo Clinic audiologist once told me the main things to watch out for are impact noises - fireworks, gunshots, etc. - and sustained high levels like rock concerts, factories, industrial environments, etc. Airshows, runways, racetracks, obviously bad. Headphones - be careful.
> 
> The Etymotic ER-20 plugs work well for concerts. They are not exactly flat, but after a few minutes to acclimatize, the sound is pretty good, and my ears never ring any extra even after a loud show when using them. In an industrial environment, I would use something that filters the high frequencies a lot more.
> 
> On an encouraging note, I got some tinnitus fairly early from playing in rock bands and going to concerts, but since being more careful and using earplugs religiously, it has not gotten worse over time, even though I am pushing... Well, we will not go into that.
> 
> The 80 dB to 85 dB listening range (short-term averaging) is actually fairly loud and is considered very safe for a few hours a week - two or three movies? And that is where the louder passages end up, most movies have an average overall level that is probably more in the mid-70 dB range. There is a lot of dynamic range though, with systems capable of high SPL's it might only take a few loud effects to strain the ears a bit. I also doubt it is the subwoofer levels that are the cause of the ear ringing. More than likely it is the higher frequencies of the sounds that _feel_ like a LF impact. Then some of us are more sensitive than others, that is a possibility too.
> 
> Do any of the commonly available listening mode processors have a peak limiting function to guard against overly loud impacts for those who feel the need for that protection?
> 
> Sure hope you can find a listening mode that is satisfying and still protects those little hearing sensors for future use!:sn:


When you say it is most likely the higher frequencies of the sounds that feel like a LF impact. Do you mean the dialog and other sounds of the main speakers that mix with the sub?


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## subs_r_dangerous

Hi, I came across this thread whilst searching for hearing loss associated with sub woofers. I recently developed a sudden hearing loss, just woke up with it. Sadly it never fully recovered and I now have a classic noise-induced hearing loss dip on the audiogram between about 2k and 4khz.

I've been searching for an explanation as I couldn't for the life or me figure out what could have caused it. I only recalled playing my car stereo loud a few weeks before it happened, but that seemed like a pretty unsatisfactory explanation.

Reading this and other threads, I'm now starting to think my home cinema system caused the hearing loss. I added a second sub the weekend before it happened. I have one sub at the front of the room and one at the back, but the back one sits under a coffee table immediately behind my listening position.

I have played movie 'loud' but not as loud as say a loud club or bar music, or the local iMax. I hadn't even thought of the sub as a concern. But I am wondering if the position of the second sub so close behind me has somehow taken the sub base into damage territory without me noticing? The hearing loss has been a devastating blow and I'm simply struggling to believe I could have blown my ears so easily, but this is literally the only thing I can think of, and the correlation in terms of timing is too strong to ignore.


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## RTS100x5

I had a very loud competition system in my Subaru for 3yrs...Ringing is now permanent but not loud.. I do play soft music at night to help me sleep... I have to wonder how it affects those Competition bass heads that hear sound pressure in the 150-160 db levels for years... I think it will finally cause CTE brain injury just like football impacts....


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## AudiocRaver

RTS100x5 said:


> I had a very loud competition system in my Subaru for 3yrs...Ringing is now permanent but not loud.. I do play soft music at night to help me sleep... I have to wonder how it affects those Competition bass heads that hear sound pressure in the 150-160 db levels for years... I think it will finally cause CTE brain injury just like football impacts....


That would not be the least bit surprising. I dread the day when the producers of large speakers and subwoofers start getting sued for making "dangerous products."


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## FargateOne

Tinnitus begins long after the first tinitus. 

The damages are caused to your vibratiles cells at the end of your auditive nerve into your ears. Everytime a loud sound or long exposure to loud sound occures it hurts those cells. One day the eyelashes at the surface of those cells collapse and you lost earing a specific FR. There is 3 layers of cells the first are specialized in the most important FR to the language (the third is for bass). Once dead those cells are not regenerated they are like neurons. The second layer try to compensate it and it is the reason why at the beginning of the tinnitus it seems to diminish and you think that you are safe. But it is not the case because your brain searchs for the lost signal and compensate it by a phantom sound issh at the precise FR lost: the tinnitus. Tinnitus dose not exist for real, it comes from the brain. Once installed, impossible to educate the brain not to induce it. My investigations tells me that any attemp to cure the tinnitus must begin very soon after the first signs. 18- 24 months later it is too late. During this delay it seems that some professional audiologist could by a costly treatment educate the brain not the induce the sound. I never tried it. It was too late for me. 

I am an audiophile and a hunter. When I was young (before 26) I practiced skeet with protectors but no protections for my ears in the forest of course. I went to discotec and bars to dance a lot. One day, one shot of my companion hit my left ear and tinnitus bigan. Since then, I live with it. Some day I would like to destroy my ears. Others I am fine. When I listen music of movie, a certain level (60-65db), I hear 100% of the spectrum. But in a silence room and a quiet conversation, I lost 20% of my left ear and 10 of my right. Salt, alcool, fatigue increase the tinnitus among other things (stupidities for instance!)

So what happens to you was prepared long time ago.

Hope that helps.


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## the_rookie

Sorry to hear you have tinnitus from electronics. That sucks, but I have had tinnitus since i was 4. And i can say that the ringing is there all the time and has been the same since i have been a kid. So i manage it by having sound constantly play around me. Music, tv shows, fan at night. So i feel ya. I dont know which is worse, tinnitus caused by sound or having it 24/7 like i do, i mean like to mask mine i do sounds. So find something that helps manage yours. Good luck


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## the_rookie

Sorry to hear you have tinnitus from electronics. That sucks, but I have had tinnitus since i was 4. And i can say that the ringing is there all the time and has been the same since i have been a kid. So i manage it by having sound constantly play around me. Music, tv shows, fan at night. So i feel ya. I dont know which is worse, tinnitus caused by sound or having it 24/7 like i do, i mean like to mask mine i do sounds. So find something that helps manage yours. Good luck


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