# Your thought on Harman Kardon



## WolF_00 (Mar 29, 2011)

Hi all, 


I am planning to buy my first home theater, so I am thinking about HK AVR 3600 + HKTS 60. What do you think about their performance in term of sound, durability and quality? do you recommend the AVR 3600 over AVR 2600? who are the direct competitors and how do you rate them? Is HK set worth its price? since it sold at $2179.99 in my country.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

That looks like a good bundle to start with. :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
H/K makes quality AVR's and I am especially fond of Logic 7 which is exclusive to HK when it comes to AVR's.
That being said, I prefer Audyssey MultEQ equipped AVR's as I believe it to make Room Anomalies go away in the best possible way.

AVR's that use Audyssey include Denon, Marantz, Onkyo, and I am sure others I am not thinking about.
If at all possible, go and check out some AVR's in your price range and both listen and see how you like the Remote, GUI, and most importantly sound.
Cheers,
JJ


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

I second what JJ has said on the AVR front. I like H/K as a brand but they wouldn't be my first choice for a receiver. 

With respect to their speakers, I can't tell you much about them having not heard themf. I will say that Infinity (Harman's Best Buy speaker brand) makes relatively good entry level speakers in its Primus line.

I'm mostly a fan of Harman's JBL Professional and Revel brands.


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## typ44q (Apr 7, 2008)

My big complaint is the really flimsy cheap feeling volume knob that they use on their AVRs I cringe every time I touch one of them, feels like it is going to fall off in my hand. granted most people use the remote most of the time and it is a non issue but it really just gives off a cheap vibe.


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## WolF_00 (Mar 29, 2011)

mechman said:


> That looks like a good bundle to start with. :T





Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> H/K makes quality AVR's and I am especially fond of Logic 7 which is exclusive to HK when it comes to AVR's.
> That being said, I prefer Audyssey MultEQ equipped AVR's as I believe it to make Room Anomalies go away in the best possible way.
> 
> ...





GranteedEV said:


> I second what JJ has said on the AVR front. I like H/K as a brand but they wouldn't be my first choice for a receiver.
> 
> With respect to their speakers, I can't tell you much about them having not heard themf. I will say that Infinity (Harman's Best Buy speaker brand) makes relatively good entry level speakers in its Primus line.
> 
> I'm mostly a fan of Harman's JBL Professional and Revel brands.





typ44q said:


> My big complaint is the really flimsy cheap feeling volume knob that they use on their AVRs I cringe every time I touch one of them, feels like it is going to fall off in my hand. granted most people use the remote most of the time and it is a non issue but it really just gives off a cheap vibe.



Many thanks for your kind reply; especial thanks for JJ, I checked different Audyssey products and I believe they have the best combination between price and performance. 
Actually I need help now to decde which is the best receiver that fit for my use. in other words, any reciever that is equivelent to HK AVR 3600 and prefearbly has more power. The HK *AVR 360* sold in UAE is different from AVR 3600, which sold in US, because it has less power 55W compared to 85W in US version and still sold at $1149 against $749.

any ideas


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
How about the Onkyo TX-NR3008? THX Ultra2 Plus Certified, Audyssey MultEQ XT, Internet Radio, full Networked Capability, 8 HDMI Inputs, 3 Power Transformers (1 for Video, 1 for Audio, 1 for Amplifiers) All of this and it still is usually cheaper than the Denon AVR-4311.
Cheers,
JJ


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## WolF_00 (Mar 29, 2011)

The Onkyo TX-NR3008 in my country is overpriced, its price still rocking at $2k. If I decided to buy it from US, is there difference on Power requirement? (ex, Power in my country is AC 220v, while most US electronics AC 120v) what will happen when I connect speakers from the local market with US receiver, if it happen I bought power converter for the receiver? 

I am sorry for asking too much question, because I do not want to invest a lot of $$ and could not utilize the system to its optimize power.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

I'm personally a big fan of Marantz receivers. I think out off all the Audessey brands(not including the more pricy ones like NAD and custom installer brands), they budget most of their product towards audio circuitry, and since a receiver at its core is about the audio side of things, I think the end results are clean and powerful high current, well designed amp sections and loads of available pre-out voltage. They usually lag behind the other brands in sellable "features" no doubt, but consistently get the basics right.

Not a knock on any of the other brands by any means, as most electronics in decent systems have a very similar, un-noticable effect on sound quality for the most part. I just have never felt comfortable with all the sort of features other brands offer.. it makes me wonder where they skimped is all. sounds like a primitive approach, I know. Maybe i`m wholely wrong and it`s marantz ripping me off by skimping on features and overcharging for their products. But I would certainly feel comfortable buying one of their products.

Now additionally, Yamaha`s most recent aventage line was all about the audio circuitry as well. It would have YPAO rather than Audessey, but the review I read of the RX-A3000 was impressive to say the least.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I agree about the A3000. As it stands, it is the only AVR using HQV's new Vida Video Processor which appears to be on par with Realta.

I used to own a Marantz SR-19EX which I loved. However, it weighed over 50 Pounds whereas the new Marantz's weigh about half that while offering 7 Channels compared to the 5 in my SR-19. Regardless, Marantz makes quality AVR's and I am quite fond of the SR7005.
Cheers,
JJ


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

I've installed both the A3000 and SR7005 on the same speaker system and they are both fantastic units, it would be a tough decision between the two especially given the similar pricing and features. 

Regards to the OP, H/K units are nice units but tend to lack behind in features, I do love the logic7 that is found only on them and sister company lexicon units. But if buying today I would probably look else where.


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## WolF_00 (Mar 29, 2011)

GranteedEV said:


> I'm personally a big fan of Marantz receivers. I think out off all the Audessey brands(not including the more pricy ones like NAD and custom installer brands), they budget most of their product towards audio circuitry, and since a receiver at its core is about the audio side of things, I think the end results are clean and powerful high current, well designed amp sections and loads of available pre-out voltage. They usually lag behind the other brands in sellable "features" no doubt, but consistently get the basics right.
> 
> Not a knock on any of the other brands by any means, as most electronics in decent systems have a very similar, un-noticable effect on sound quality for the most part. I just have never felt comfortable with all the sort of features other brands offer.. it makes me wonder where they skimped is all. sounds like a primitive approach, I know. Maybe i`m wholely wrong and it`s marantz ripping me off by skimping on features and overcharging for their products. But I would certainly feel comfortable buying one of their products.
> 
> Now additionally, Yamaha`s most recent aventage line was all about the audio circuitry as well. It would have YPAO rather than Audessey, but the review I read of the RX-A3000 was impressive to say the least.





Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I agree about the A3000. As it stands, it is the only AVR using HQV's new Vida Video Processor which appears to be on par with Realta.
> 
> I used to own a Marantz SR-19EX which I loved. However, it weighed over 50 Pounds whereas the new Marantz's weigh about half that while offering 7 Channels compared to the 5 in my SR-19. Regardless, Marantz makes quality AVR's and I am quite fond of the SR7005.
> ...


Both Yamaha RX-A3000 & Marantz SR7005 are powerful high end AVR, Thank you for recommendation & opening my eyes into more option  :clap:



nholmes1 said:


> Regards to the OP, H/K units are nice units but tend to lack behind in features, I do love the logic7 that is found only on them and sister company lexicon units. *But if buying today I would probably look else where*.


I am listening; Can you give me more clues, please?


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

In all honesty, a high end AVR may not be a worthwhile investment... they can hit the law of diminishing returns pretty quickly. you could get one of these..

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...7ch-3-D-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html

that alone would be all most really need from a receiver. if you want to take it a step further, you could beef up the from stage amplification with a hi power separates amp like

http://classicaudioparts.com/store/ATI-AT3003-Three-Channel-x-300-Watt-Amplifier-B-Stock-120V.html

And i think the net performance would be superior.

FAR more important than the electronics is the choice of speakers. You may want to reallt look around. As a general rule, your stereo main speakers should never be worth less than any of your electronics.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That would definitely be the more powerful solution. However, the Amplifier alone costs more than the Onkyo TX-NR3008, SR7005, and A3000. 

I am a big believer in strong Power Amplifiers and that one is certainly that. Moreover, it will last for Decades more than likely. So I definitely cannot find fault in the recommendation.
Cheers,
JJ


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## WolF_00 (Mar 29, 2011)

GranteedEV said:


> In all honesty, a high end AVR may not be a worthwhile investment... they can hit the law of diminishing returns pretty quickly. you could get one of these..
> 
> 
> that alone would be all most really need from a receiver. if you want to take it a step further, you could beef up the from stage amplification with a hi power separates amp like
> ...


Of course it shall, my system shall not be less than my TV or any other household units, but what is right for me is different from what is right for you or anyone else. Thanks for recommending the amplifier and to be honest that is more than I need; currently I need very effective system with my limited budget, on the other hand I will save amplifier website for future reference. I am not in rush to go for high end AVR, because it is overpriced in my country. In addition to the difference in electricity (120v against 220v) that make it quite impossible to buy one from US. So I am limited in choices and mainly I may buy decent mid rang AVR. 


Truly I haven't find any better (bookshelf) speakers than HKTS 60 in my country. So it is my first choice over any other speakers. By 


Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> That would definitely be the more powerful solution. However, the Amplifier alone costs more than the Onkyo TX-NR3008, SR7005, and A3000.
> 
> I am a big believer in strong Power Amplifiers and that one is certainly that. Moreover, it will last for Decades more than likely. So I definitely cannot find fault in the recommendation.
> ...


LOOL, but it is quite expensive to recommend that amplifier. Anyway, I couldn't find distributor of Marantez in my area, therefore, I may stick with mid-range AVR, such as Onkyo TX-NR 1008, since it worth $1k, unlike Onkyo TX-NR 3008 $2k, I know the the TX-NR1008 lack features, but I feel its features are more than enough for me and more than I expected from the HK AVR 360, which is differ from US model AVR 3600. I may visit the authentic distributers of onkyo and see what other services that they may provide to me. Thanks for your support and help


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## smurphy522 (Sep 21, 2010)

Wolf_00,
I can attest to H/K's solid quality of product and high value, even if a little lacking in "features" compared to competitors. What you should decide is "will I use those additional features?". Most of the time I think not. Yes H/K's auto room set-up is not as flexible or effective as the higher end Audyssey offering (Audyssey XT and up).

I would not suggest buying a 120V unit. A few reasons: The $ saved may have to be spent to get a quality power step down converter (usually not less than $100 USD). Even after the 220V to 120V is converted you will still have a higher heat output from the US receiver based on the 60hz rating it is designed for vs. the 50hz feed you will power it with. When I moved overseas for a few years I asked H/K about using such a thing (a step down converter) and while they said it would work the receiver would generate considerably more heat in use. Noting that heat is the culprit of lots of electronic problems I decided to forgo bringing my receiver. Since you did not indicate what country you are in I am assuming you will have a 220V/50Hz feed, correct me if wrong.

Another option is separates (may not be priced in your range though) There are some separate amps and processors that have selectable voltage capability. Look at Emotiva (currently out of stock though) :unbelievable:

Like others have suggested best to go and listen to some comparative models from different companies to understand how they vary. If you can't tell the difference in sound then go with the least expensive unit that has the features you know you will use! I would suggest spending the most $ towards speakers. there is no use in getting a flagship or close receiver and playing it through a $1k speaker package. Basically try to follow the rule of diminishing returns. I believe the the HK-TS60 will probably be fine if driven by a entry to mid level receiver like the AVR 1600. I would imagine that there is very little difference heard in driving it with the 1600 vs. a 3600. The 30w difference is negligible and they claim to offer the same instantaneous current so they employ similar pwr supplies. The feature set of the 3600 is what causes the 2x price jump! You will not be doing your self any justice!

It would also be helpful (in you getting good feedback) if you could include the room dimensions you plan to install this equipment in. Also noting what features you must have or will surely use in the receiver (i.e. HDMI 1.3 or 1.4a - helpful to have 1.4a if doing 3D, multi-zone, network/internet streaming, HD radio, full or limited upgrade capability- analog outputs, Etc.)

Again the best way forward is to put the most budget into the speakers. Unless you have a monstrously sized room and/or you will have multi-zones; going with a flagship or upper end receiver is not the way to start. 

That's just my 2¢

Best of luck!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Great Post S. Murphy.
Cheers,
JJ


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## WolF_00 (Mar 29, 2011)

smurphy522 said:


> Wolf_00,
> I can attest to H/K's solid quality of product and high value, even if a little lacking in "features" compared to competitors. What you should decide is "will I use those additional features?". Most of the time I think not. Yes H/K's auto room set-up is not as flexible or effective as the higher end Audyssey offering (Audyssey XT and up).


There is no wonder why HK was my first choice. I am obsessed with their quality, but I thought it is better to ask and look around; for alternative option. It is cool to have all features in AVR, but I found such AVR recklessly expensive, which made me stick to mid range receiver. 





smurphy522 said:


> I would not suggest buying a 120V unit. A few reasons: The $ saved may have to be spent to get a quality power step down converter (usually not less than $100 USD). Even after the 220V to 120V is converted you will still have a higher heat output from the US receiver based on the 60hz rating it is designed for vs. the 50hz feed you will power it with. When I moved overseas for a few years I asked H/K about using such a thing (a step down converter) and while they said it would work the receiver would generate considerably more heat in use. Noting that heat is the culprit of lots of electronic problems I decided to forgo bringing my receiver. Since you did not indicate what country you are in I am assuming you will have a 220V/50Hz feed, correct me if wrong.


I agree with you, buying unit from US may save from $200 to $400, but on the other hand I will need quality power converter, You are right about power feed, all electric equipment run 220v/50hz at my country (UAE). 



smurphy522 said:


> Another option is separates (may not be priced in your range though) There are some separate amps and processors that have selectable voltage capability. Look at Emotiva (currently out of stock though) :unbelievable:


Lets keep our focus on AVR and speakers for now, I may look at these extras in the future, after I have understand the system and how it works then it will be the right time to upgrade... 



smurphy522 said:


> Like others have suggested best to go and listen to some comparative models from different companies to understand how they vary. If you can't tell the difference in sound then go with the least expensive unit that has the features you know you will use! I would suggest spending the most $ towards speakers. there is no use in getting a flagship or close receiver and playing it through a $1k speaker package. Basically try to follow the rule of diminishing returns. I believe the the HK-TS60 will probably be fine if driven by a entry to mid level receiver like the AVR 1600. I would imagine that there is very little difference heard in driving it with the 1600 vs. a 3600. The 30w difference is negligible and they claim to offer the same instantaneous current so they employ similar pwr supplies. The feature set of the 3600 is what causes the 2x price jump! You will not be doing your self any justice!


I listened to many systems by using the same movie DVD (transformers II) to touch the difference, I feel good room setup plays major role. Most speakers sold are between low end and entry level mid range speakers. Any other speaker are very expensive and overpriced as seller want to take advantage of them; their prices are X2..

The AVR 160, which sold outside US; has only 35W vs 50W for AVR 1600, while if I compare it with Onkyo tx-nr808, it comes with 180 w/ch (although it runs at 6ohm, still the output will be much better) and it has more features and comes cheaper than HK AVR160 at my country! At last HK is one of the most famous company in sound solutions and have very good reputation in the market. 



smurphy522 said:


> It would also be helpful (in you getting good feedback) if you could include the room dimensions you plan to install this equipment in. Also noting what features you must have or will surely use in the receiver (i.e. HDMI 1.3 or 1.4a - helpful to have 1.4a if doing 3D, multi-zone, network/internet streaming, HD radio, full or limited upgrade capability- analog outputs, Etc.)


my living room is diamond shape, I have an issue for the back speakers and surrounding sound because of inaccurate room angles, as Harman Technician told me, but he promised they will resolve this issue if I bought the speakers from them.
I took your recommendation and checked for AVR that support HDMI 1.4a. I made my list, but I won't rush until I gather more info about these products, touch the difference and take note of them. 



smurphy522 said:


> Again the best way forward is to put the most budget into the speakers. Unless you have a monstrously sized room and/or you will have multi-zones; going with a flagship or upper end receiver is not the way to start.


My living room dimension is very large and distance between TV and sofa is at least 3 meters, but this is not the case why I want to invest that much $$ for the receiver. I may change the speakers after 2 years, but I will like to have decent receiver that I can take advantage of it for the next 5 years. 



smurphy522 said:


> That's just my 2¢
> 
> Best of luck!


I wish there are more people like you; who able to give such generous opinion :T


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