# Line array with 2" drivers



## Low-Q (Oct 11, 2009)

Hi,

I have always wanted to build a pair of really tall line array speakers - which reach from the very floor level to the very ceiling level. I want to use 40pcs of Tang Band W2-803 on each side, and use a full range plate amplifier with built in DSP - the Hypex AS2.100 Digital. The alternative is to use 24psc Tang Band W4-1320 on each side. I will use impedance correction on each driver because I must connect some drivers in series and some in parallel. The goal is to reach not below 4 ohms nominal impedance, more than 100Watts power handling, >90dB/1W, use the parametric EQ in the DSP to boost the bass down to 30 - 40Hz and correct the frequency range upwards also.

The cost of the drivers will be in total about $2500 for all 80pcs 2" drivers, or $4000 for all the 48pcs 4" drivers, and about $600 in the amplifier.

But before I start this project, I would like to know if you have any opinions, experience with such line array. What should I think of when constructing a tall line array like this?

Br.

Vidar


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## Guest (Sep 25, 2010)

What are the advantages of a line array? Aside from crazy sensitivity. Seems like a lot of cash that could go to a serious full range project.


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## Low-Q (Oct 11, 2009)

My hope is dynamic headroom, high sensitivity, less problems around 150 - 200Hz area (I hope), many small and fast drivers might be better than one big slow driver (?). It is some money, but the alternative is to pay $25000 for manufactured high end line array speakers...

Br.

Vidar


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## Coytee (May 7, 2010)

Honest question: Are line arrays (especially taller ones) really the best way to do home audio? I was under the impression that arrays were best suited for auditoriums where the audience was a fair bit away from the speakers.

A friend of mine has a pair and frankly, to my ears, it's a strange thing to listen to. You can walk around his room and the sound will change. More specifically, you can be standing at the listening chair....and then sit down and just that height change will create a DRAMATIC difference in quality of sound.

Bottom line, you MUST be sitting down within a small window to really hear these things shine. Once sitting down they do sound nice but if you get up to refresh your beverage.... it's much much like what happens when you are scuba diving and hit a thermal. There is a distinct line where the sound makes an abrupt change.

I wonder if smaller arrays would fix this (or make it worse?) 

I personally move around too much or, have too much seating to the sides to be able to deal with the arrays I heard at my friends house. Hopefully you could compensate for some of those traits his displays.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Low-Q said:


> My hope is dynamic headroom, high sensitivity, less problems around 150 - 200Hz area (I hope), many small and fast drivers might be better than one big slow driver (?). It is some money, but the alternative is to pay $25000 for manufactured high end line array speakers...
> 
> Br.
> 
> Vidar


I'm not trying to stear you away from your idea because it would be a fun project. Not sure on your biography either as far as speaker building goes so i'm just gonna throw out my opinion. I think you'd be happier with the sound of a traditional speaker setup due to the fact that they will probly beat out the line arrays any day, 2" drivers are small, i know it's amazing what smalldrivers can do but "big" speakers are by no means slow they are also more dynamic and in my opinion would give you better sound especially in the sweet spot (your listening position).:T


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

^^ I'm in agreement with the above and would caution you to do a lot of research before shelling out all that money on drivers for an unproven design. Make sure you at least hear something similar to what you want to build before spending the money.

I've built two line arrays, assisted with one more and heard several, and I don't like them compared to other solutions. However, _you_ may love them. 

I would suggest reading Jim Griffin's white paper, John Murphy's MCLA Project and especially Don Keele's Constant Beamwidth Array research and papers and google the last one as well, as there have been several recent reports from audiofests on them.

Edit: Roger Russell's site has some info you might also find interesting.


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## Low-Q (Oct 11, 2009)

Thanks for all the info. I have been reading about line arrays, but there has never been a solid conclusion whether the line array works well or not. It all depends on the room, how tall they are, placements, driver arrangement, listening spots etc. - pretty much like any other given loudspeaker. I do know there is a common problem with the frequency range around 100 - 200Hz with traditional speakers. Almost every measurements I have done with speakers in a "normal" listening room, there are (almost without exceptions) a deep notch somewhere in that frequency range. 
For the line arrays I could always put in a sub woofer tower on each side as well to assist the full range drivers with deep bass. Maybe two towers with 8pcs 8" woofers each would do?

Br.

Vidar


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Low-Q said:


> For the line arrays I could always put in a sub woofer tower on each side as well to assist the full range drivers with deep bass. Maybe two towers with 8pcs 8" woofers each would do?


That is true you would fill the void with that route. In my opinion unless you have got money burning a hole in your pocket, you could do an awesome set of floor standers and a DIY sub and blow those line arrays out of the water with less then what your gonna be spending on that setup and still have money to burn for other components.:T


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## Guest (Sep 26, 2010)

If you live in the mid-west, you could try and demo these. https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_425&products_id=8691

Build some 15" subs to go with it.

I'm not going to pretend to know everything about line array speakers, but I do know that no matter how much sensitivity and range you have, you are still stuck with only 2" drivers and that has its limitations in range.

Other possibilities, http://www.madisound.com/store/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=orion or possibly this http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=Colossi

I read up on the Colossi's a little. Using active crossovers, you should be able to correct for that dip you don't want.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

Low-Q said:


> I do know there is a common problem with the frequency range around 100 - 200Hz with traditional speakers. Almost every measurements I have done with speakers in a "normal" listening room, there are (almost without exceptions) a deep notch somewhere in that frequency range.


That's just floor bounce and will still be an issue with a line array.


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## Coytee (May 7, 2010)

Do an internet search on "Cornscala". This is a diy speaker that begain taking the best parts (so say some) of the Klipsch LaScala...the midrange and tweeter horns and mate those with the best parts of the Cornwall....the 15" driver.

The reports back on them are pretty impressive. I've never heard them. Another thought would be the "JubeScala" where you KEEP (what I think is) the best part of the LaScala, the horn bass and mate it with another horn made by Klipsch (either the K510 or K402 which is huge).

This gives you a 2-way all horn loaded speaker, very efficient, sounds more like a point source, signal aligned and biamped (there is no passive design for this but the paramaters for an active have already been engineered by Klipsch).

I HAVE heard the JubeScala and am here to tell you it is stunning.


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## bearberry (Apr 7, 2010)

+1 for AX9's reference links. I'm researching line arrays and will probably build a Murphy LA or Keele's CBA array, but expect to keep the cost under $1,000. May have the chance to hear a full-height 3-way array soon, and that will help me decide if I like arrays - never having heard one before.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Hey what are people's thoughts on truncated line arrays like the RBH T1 with the triple Scanspeak 9500 tweeters surrounded by four mids in a non-line-array?

It's supposed to be one of the best sounding speakers as long as you sit ~9-12 feet away yet the guys over at DIYaudio ripped into the design badly. They scoffed at it as a typical boutique "multi driver" design yet my gut's telling me RBH's crossover and baffle work makes it a great speaker. yet i've never heard it and i doubt the diyaudio guys have either. They basically said that you either line tweeters from floor to ceiling or you only use a single tweeter which while traditionally is true I don't quite buy.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

Links would make it easier to comment, both for the speaker itself and the referred thread.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

A9X said:


> Links would make it easier to comment, both for the speaker itself and the referred thread.


Speaker and same speaker mounted on sub and Same mounting combined into a single tower
DIYaudio's hate-on for the design and the coolest one, dual mounted subs, that'll probably give you nice clean bass response.... i wouldn't want to be the guy lifting that sub module to the top tier though LOL!

Mind you, I realize that the tradeoff for the design is low impedance dips but my question is from a purely "SQ" point of view. Line arrays have never even really interested me but this speaker just seems like it's "right".

On a side note it's meant to be bi-amped, i don't think there's a passive crossover in place to make it a true 3 way design without bi amping


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

Well, you're probably not going to like this either, but I agree with a lot of the technical points made in the diyaudio thread. The widely spaced (relative to operating ranges) mids and tweets are going to comb filter in the vertical and horizontal planes.

The measurements at Audioholics look OK, except there are no polars, so you have no idea of the power response in the room. The nulls from drive spacing would show clearly in the V&H polars and that is one of the main reasons I don't like conventional line arrays; I have not heard Keele's CBTs.

If the 80Hz xover to the subs is active that's better than a passive, but positioning the subs under the mains may not be the best for in room response, based upon the work of Welti, Devantier and Geddes.


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