# Sophisticated Cave...maybe.



## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

I recently began to build my dedicated 7.1 home theater in my basement. Which unfortunately is smaller then I would have like but who never said that. Due to restrictions the dimensions are roughly 11' width and 26' long and the drop ceiling will make the height 7' when installed. I decided to step the room in from the existing cement basement walls by 2' on three sides in this part of my basement to still allow for access to some mechanical s and rule out any light from the three existing windows. 

I will add photos when I figure out how to upload them here from picassa.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Sounds good, Dennis. Building the walls in as you describe will help with sound isolation as well.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Dennis, You can upload your photos using our own image hosting gallery here. Once uploaded you just have to copy the image location and paste it into this thread using the "insert image" icon.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Here is a link to picassa....hope this works.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

This should work....sorry


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Where you have your picture hosted. right click on the image, select copy image location, then come back here and use the







icon above where you type and paste the link in the dialog box and select ok.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

This time should be a charm...thanks for the help.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttOgzBp_I/AAAAAAAACqY/n7FWn_jVWGo/s128/IMG00251.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttPGL3KhI/AAAAAAAACqc/CSqarGPIpx0/s128/IMG00260.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttRI1vNpI/AAAAAAAACqg/xBUga2RdRBU/s128/IMG00273.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttTf54MLI/AAAAAAAACqk/Vyes8a3eRN8/s128/IMG00276.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttU8I1W4I/AAAAAAAACqo/jXm8ts-9ruQ/s128/IMG00277.jpg
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttWv5ddTI/AAAAAAAACqs/NFq6MG5YsqY/s128/IMG00279.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttYnynVzI/AAAAAAAACqw/OueE0w1Rqpo/s128/IMG00285.jpg
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttasI75jI/AAAAAAAACq4/ja4DSppgGKg/s128/IMG00290.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/Stttb_T9JlI/AAAAAAAACrA/NqlKEBBQ9DQ/s128/IMG00298.jpg
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/StttdB_k9XI/AAAAAAAACrI/aq_0NpVTRTw/s128/IMG00301.jpg
http://lh6.ggpht.com/_CVk-ohCOF6g/Stttd2gLFdI/AAAAAAAACtg/O2gkpAO171o/s640/IMG00303.jpg


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm assuming you plan on having the drop ceiling below that HVAC duct. You may want to consider building a bulkhead around the HVAC and then drywalling it and the ceiling rather than going drop ceiling. Drywall or double drywall will have much better soundproofing potential especially if you stuff the joists with insulation.

At least maybe frame that HVAC duct and drywall it so that your drop ceiling can be higher up. 7 feet will seem pretty low once the whole ceiling is up. Even an extra 6 inches will make a huge difference.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Yes below that duct is where the suspended ceiling will begin at 7'. Thoght about what you suggest and cannot drywall the ceiling because of pipes(feeds and drains), not to mention the symmetry of the room.

Also I am not to concerned with sound proofing per se. but rather sound adjusting later with traps and panels.

I wonder if I boxed around the duct and did the same thing on the other side of the room while increasing the height in the middle of the room if that would work and not harm the sound.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

If you have the option for more ceiling height I would take it. Having bulkheads on either side would make it look symmetrical. If you plan on treating your first reflection points on the ceiling then the extra height will be favorable.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

That's something I will consider. Thanks


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> If you have the option for more ceiling height I would take it. Having bulkheads on either side would make it look symmetrical. If you plan on treating your first reflection points on the ceiling then the extra height will be favorable.


Actually that was a great suggestion for many reasons but one it will allow for an easier placement of my projector. I will build the bulkheads and this will also give me more height even under them using drywall. Thanks.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Forgot about that one. If your ceiling was low you'd be worried about people bumping your projector. Keep us posted on your progress and ask us anything.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> Forgot about that one. If your ceiling was low you'd be worried about people bumping your projector. Keep us posted on your progress and ask us anything.


Thanks for the help and as this project progresses I will post more pictures and welcome input from those who have gone before me.

But here is a question.
 Is it better to cut drywall into the suspended ceiling grid or is it better to use the store bought tiles. My thought is that drywall will dampen vibration noise from this type of ceiling. Also I could paint the drywall tiles anyway I liked.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

nitrox1 said:


> Is it better to cut drywall into the suspended ceiling grid or is it better to use the store bought tiles. My thought is that drywall will dampen vibration noise from this type of ceiling. Also I could paint the drywall tiles anyway I liked.


I think that drywall will be to heavy to use, also, the accoustic tiles will help with the sound.

The tiles can be painted (see picture), but will not perform the way it was designed to work.



The black wall behind TV and speakers was covered with accoustic tiles from HD, I painted them (double click picture to enlarge and look above the sub, you'll notice some white spots), is not easy....but.:innocent:


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Because I will be using a AT screen I will need to paint everything behind the screen flat black including the ceiling. So maybe what I will do is use drywall painted black in the first slot of the grid on the screen end and tile in the rest. Thanks


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Drywall would be way to heavy in a suspended ceiling. You would risk the whole thing collapsing. Even if it were strong enough the drywall would not fit as snug and would rattle a bit. If you don't want to paint the tiles you could always wrap or spray glue some black burlap or muslin over them. You would want the fabric to be fire rated if possible.

Is the reason why you want a drop ceiling because your plumbing runs perpendicular to the joists (ie: on the bottom of them)? You can always run 2x2's (or 1x1's) the opposite direction and affix the drywall to that to overcome that issue. Add RISC clips or resilient channel and you're in a whole other world of happy. 

Are you worried about leaks? As long as the pipes are in good condition it would be not unlike any other space in your house that is finished. Your second floor pipes are not exposed. If you insulate/wrap the pipes then condensation should not be much of an issue.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> Drywall would be way to heavy in a suspended ceiling. You would risk the whole thing collapsing. Even if it were strong enough the drywall would not fit as snug and would rattle a bit. If you don't want to paint the tiles you could always wrap or spray glue some black burlap or muslin over them. You would want the fabric to be fire rated if possible.
> 
> Is the reason why you want a drop ceiling because your plumbing runs perpendicular to the joists (ie: on the bottom of them)? You can always run 2x2's (or 1x1's) the opposite direction and affix the drywall to that to overcome that issue. Add RISC clips or resilient channel and you're in a whole other world of happy.
> 
> Are you worried about leaks? As long as the pipes are in good condition it would be not unlike any other space in your house that is finished. Your second floor pipes are not exposed. If you insulate/wrap the pipes then condensation should not be much of an issue.


All very good points. The wheels are turning...thanks.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

All true. People do sometimes install drywall in suspended systems, but generally not good for many reasons. A heavy, decoupled and sealed ceiling is significantly better


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Ted White said:


> All true. People do sometimes install drywall in suspended systems, but generally not good for many reasons. A heavy, decoupled and sealed ceiling is significantly better


Thanks


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

You're quite welcome. Side note, if you beed access to some valve in the ceiling, you cab simply build a solid ceiling and incorporate a small sealed hatch


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Remember also that electrical junction boxes can not be hidden behind drywall and must be accessible.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

I'm going to get rid of the drop ceiling idea altogether and go with dropping 3" below the joist to clear the pipes and drywall it. On both sides I will build bulkheads and rock them also. Saving a couple of dollars to go towards other things would be nice also.

I always thought that a drop ceiling was overpriced between the grid and the panels so that was pretty easy.onder:


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Hard to beat the benefits of $8 a sheet 5/8" drywall


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Ted White said:


> Hard to beat the benefits of $8 a sheet 5/8" drywall


Got that right.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

You won't regret it. The extra inches of ceiling height will be the biggest benefit (unless you're a hobbit), cost being a close second.

Depending on how wide it is between your bulkheads you could get longer drywall to avoid any butt joints in the ceiling. That would give you only factory edge seams and save you a lot of time and effort cutting/taping/mudding/sandings. Of course I'm guessing if your room is 11' wide with around 1' bulkheads on either side (give or take an inch or two), and you'll be running 2x3s perpendicular to the joists. Given that you'll be just shy of a 8' sheet. You could always build out your bulkheads so that the middle is 8' all the way down. 

The same would still apply to the width if you ran the drywall the other way except that they don`t make drywall that is wider than 4' which would mean you`d have a huge butt joint running the length of the room.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> You won't regret it. The extra inches of ceiling height will be the biggest benefit (unless you're a hobbit), cost being a close second.
> 
> Depending on how wide it is between your bulkheads you could get longer drywall to avoid any butt joints in the ceiling. That would give you only factory edge seams and save you a lot of time and effort cutting/taping/mudding/sandings. Of course I'm guessing if your room is 11' wide with around 1' bulkheads on either side (give or take an inch or two), and you'll be running 2x3s perpendicular to the joists. Given that you'll be just shy of a 8' sheet. You could always build out your bulkheads so that the middle is 8' all the way down.
> 
> The same would still apply to the width if you ran the drywall the other way except that they don`t make drywall that is wider than 4' which would mean you`d have a huge butt joint running the length of the room.


You're right regret it and except for some wiring the bulkheads are framed out and the ceiling has been dropped down to the height I need so I will be able to start rocking soon. Thanks for the original suggestion to drywall. I have some new pics but I was having trouble loading them so I will do that another day


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

1


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

1


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

zzzz


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

I'm interested in watching your progress. The dimensions of my room are almost identical (although I have 7 feet, period). Actually going to be an inch or two shorter with drywall installed. 

You may really want to think about two layers of 5/8 with green glue in between. Green glue going to run you another $350 or so in costs but will supposedly help out quite a bit. Check out Ted's website, there is a wealth of info there. What are you using for lights?


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Thanks for the tip but the inside walls are complete already except for the acoustical treatments which may be extensive. I will post more recent photos when I can get them to load onto this site again. The main problem which I knew about before I began this project was the narrow sound stage but am hoping to overcome that as best I can. With this build I was not concerned with the amount of sound leaving the theater even though I have insulated the walls because it is in my basement and I stepped the walls in 2 feet from the foundation walls as necessary. I will try to give more info as I go along.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Here are some more pics.
http://picasaweb.google.com/nitrox3/HomeTheater02?authkey=Gv1sRgCNfI-piUj4jYLg#


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Remember also that electrical junction boxes can not be hidden behind drywall and must be accessible.


If you correctly plan and wire your HT, there shouldn't be a need for any junction boxes at all. No matter how complex the wiring is.


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## steiny93 (Jan 8, 2009)

i'm really not following the postive of a sheet rocked ceiling in a theater room vs. a high quality accoustical suspended ceiling

i have a purpose built theater room with an accoustical suspended ceiling, we went with the Sanddrift line from USG for the tiles. Over top of the tiles we laid R19 unfaced insulation

in a different home we have a very similar setup where the basement has a sheetrocked ceiling (granted no R19 above it)

if I compare and contrast those rooms the difference is night and day, the echo and such within the sheetrocked media room is much worse. From a noise transfer perspective the suspended also performs better. Not to mention the significant advantage in being able to access the ceiling if needed.

Is the something I'm missing, or is my perception broken? Perhaps I'm favoring a particular setup over another for some other reason? But via my ear I absolutely wouldn't do a hard cap in a media room.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

The fact was that I needed the headroom and if I were to put in the drop ceiling than it would have taken some away. Also there may have been rattle noises from it vibrating not to mention added expense.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Having sheet rocked the ceiling and sealed the cement floor in a custom dark gray masonry sealer I set about to do some acoustic treatments. I used roxul-AFB 4'x16x2 to fill portable hanging absorbers. I also filled the rear of the sound stage with 4 to 6" deep of the same material from floor to ceiling. Once I am sure about the sidewall locations I will cover the panels with black speaker cover material. I will post more info when I have more time.


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## DIYHT1 (Oct 29, 2007)

I am surprise that nobody sugests using sound board to help with sound proofing a room...i know this comment is way, way late but for what is worth...i used sound board from HD, is not that expensive about $8-$10 for a 4'x8' sheet, and to my untrained ear it does help lots with keeping sound in room...just a thought.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

I was not really concerned with sound leaking out since it was in my basement, but having said that I did put fiberglass insulation in both the ceiling and walls as well as foam insulation into the door jam. Also, except for the ceiling all four walls are stand alone and are not attached. Even when in the basement, while playing, outside of the room it is pretty quiet. Soundboard may have been a better choice if sound leakage were the primary consideration.


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## nitrox1 (May 26, 2007)

Just realized what you were saying.....the treatment I spoke of was bass traps, absorbers and deadening the complete rear of the sound stage, using Roxul-AFB.

I am in the process of tuning the room for maximum acoustic imaging and have been playing with it for a while now.


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