# The Gate, 4 tower open baffle speaker system



## JamesTRexx

Starting to steal attention from nvrgdnuf's thread about his own open baffle speakers (which have much higher WAF and sensibility) so I'd better start my own.

Presenting the Gate, the design created after reading through a lot of loudspeaker info on the net and sorting out what was the simplest solution to the issues with speakers. As can be seen, there was neither interest in WAF nor sanity. :coocoo:

Mains: 3.5 way WWMT/TMWW, 190x28x28 cm, part H, part (shallow) U frame,
Visaton (for ease of availability and known quality); 2x G 20 SC, 2x TI 100, 4x W 200 S, crossover points (LR 4th) 2300, 243 Hz with top and bottom woofer rolled off 30 dB at 243 Hz/12 dB slope.

Subs: 190x35x35 cm H frame, 6x W 300 connected per 3 in parallel, crossoverpoint (LR 4th) 50 Hz between mains and subs when in use, otherwise the mains run full range.

TV: Philips 42" plasma (used only for watching (ripped) movies/series, cable content holds nothing of interest for me)

Source: VIA Eden Mini-ITX based mediaserver with Terratec Aureon 5.1 soundcard; OS: FreeBSD 7; player: good ol' XMMS and Xine. The Yamaha GT-CD1 (one of the very few original 220V versions) needs a replacement drivebelt for the lens transport first, then I'll look into getting a nice pre-amplifier.

Processing: Behringer DEQ2496 for room equalizing, connected with digital out to 2 DCX2496'. Outputs are configured for sub, sub, low, low/low-mid, mid, high and time aligned.

Power amps: (per side) 1x Behringer EP4000 in stereo for sub, 2x Behringer EP2000 for main (all with combined silent fan and resistor mods).

Planned finishing: all edges rounded, front and inside behind mid/tweeters white felt, complete frames white high gloss paint.

Sound: Depending on the quality of the recording a deep and wide soundstage, very realistic and detailed (often up to the point where I suddenly hear more faint noises in the recorded background), tight and deep open baffle bass not fazed by the cannons from Overture 1812 :bigsmile:


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## lsiberian

Nice work I really want to check out open baffle someday.


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## JamesTRexx

lsiberian said:


> Nice work I really want to check out open baffle someday.


Thanks.  It's worth it to check it out, even if only for learning what difference it makes in sound.


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## Anthony

Those look really nice (from a sound point of view -- paint that MDF  )

I have always liked OB sound. I have been experimenting with some drivers off an on for years now, but my go-to is still the Magnepan MG10.1's I have in the living room. One of these days I'll get back into it . . .


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## gregdee

hi JamesTrexx

nice spkrs 
however a good high celling european house is a must here 

sth I just lost since started to live in Britain :-(

I just enjoying this forum being watching some info about Yamaha GT-CD1 player.
Do not want to hi- jack your thread ,so will continue on PM.

I see that you are new here as well.

bests 
and hear you soon:clap:


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## JamesTRexx

gregdee said:


> hi JamesTrexx
> 
> nice spkrs
> however a good high celling european house is a must here
> 
> sth I just lost since started to live in Britain :-(
> 
> I just enjoying this forum being watching some info about Yamaha GT-CD1 player.
> Do not want to hi- jack your thread ,so will continue on PM.
> 
> I see that you are new here as well.
> 
> bests
> and hear you soon:clap:


Thanks! Luckily most houses here are high enough to accomodate these, otherwise I'd have to use them sideways.  Been a while since I've been to the UK so I can't remember how high the ceilings usually were.

I joined this forum because I wanted to check out RoomEQWizard for measuring these speakers, then just had to reply to someone who mentioned using two 15" woofers was overkill. 
But there's not much info on the Yamaha around here. Only saw a german forum topic on it a year ago.

Now to reply a couple of times more so pm is also activated on my account. :doh:


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## JamesTRexx

Anthony said:


> Those look really nice (from a sound point of view -- paint that MDF  )


That's the problem, I'll have to go without sound for a few days when I'll paint them. Decisions, decisions... :huh: 



Anthony said:


> I have always liked OB sound. I have been experimenting with some drivers off an on for years now, but my go-to is still the Magnepan MG10.1's I have in the living room. One of these days I'll get back into it . . .


That's the thing with Magnepans as far as I've read on owner comments, they're just that good.
I haven't heard them myself but I can understand their appeal. Once heard the Martin Logan CLS and thought it was better than the other MLs with a seperate dynamic woofer.
I believe the same ESL/Magnetostat sound can be created with dynamic speakers, but it takes a lot of drivers to get the same surface area (and thereby reduced excursion, improved dynamics) of a large sheet or ribbons.


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## Owen Bartley

Very nice speakers! There are a lot of finish options, and I'd say you have some great potential to do something cool with those. I know it's no fun to take them out of your system... but just think how nice it will be to have them back looking perfect!


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## JamesTRexx

Owen Bartley said:


> Very nice speakers! There are a lot of finish options, and I'd say you have some great potential to do something cool with those. I know it's no fun to take them out of your system... but just think how nice it will be to have them back looking perfect!


Thanks! For myself I need a light colour to prevent them making the room appear darker, hence high gloss white (I could maybe sell them as high end designer speakers for 100.000 bucks :devil
But for someone who has a large enough room the size does make for plenty of paint options.

I'm trying my best to think of the finished product, but the sound, the sound...


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## 1Michael

You have not as yet described the soundaddle:
What kind of music have you listened to on them?


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## JamesTRexx

buggers said:


> You have not as yet described the soundaddle:
> What kind of music have you listened to on them?


Not the face! Not the face! 

What can be said about the sound that not every speaker manufacturor hasn't said about their reference? Frequency ranging from cellar to attic, bass tight as hardwood, soundstage width from second neighbour left to second neighbour right and a depth to the neighbours accross the street, detailed like an electron microscope (but as always depending on recording quality). 

As my taste in music ranges from classic to death metal (and includes both country and western ) I have a few reference records like Overture 1812 which cannons are handled easily, Roger Water's Amused to death's effects are much more present at left and right. Bass guitar and kickdrums are reproduced like nothing I've heard before (one surprising example is the cd Issues from Korn).
Music I've enjoyed since include soundtracks from sci-fi themed anime, Dire Straits, jazz from regular and audiophile labels, hits from the 80's like Murray Head's One night in Bangkok, Peter Gabriel, Madonna, A-ha, Chris Rea, excellent free music from Jamendo.com like Brad Sucks' Dirtbag, etc..
Movies I've watched with just the two channel (surround) sound include oldies like Vanishing point, Gone in 60 seconds, The thing, and newer like Lord of the rings, Master & commander.

One of the things that was made clear is that phantom center sounds great no matter the distance between speakers and the amount of toe-in. With good recordings there's just this big wall of sound coming at me. Music is just there and I have a hard time turning it off despite almost falling asleep late at night, like tonight when it's almost 02:00 here. :rubeyes:
And another thing that I noticed is that this speaker set is unspectacular. Nothing is added to make it seem more lively, it just reproduces what is given at the amplifiers. Metal like Megadeth's Countdown to extinction sounds as undistorted as Mike Garson's Oxnard sessions. 
Of course the taste in sound can be set to one's own preference because anything can be changed with the settings on the DEQ, DCX and gain on the amplifiers. The flexibility of an active setup just can't be beaten.

An independent opinion was provided by my sister (who needs WAF? ), she had recently heard different speakers from a Dutch manufactor at his shop and she could hear definite differences between the models. She remarked how much more width and depth these had so I think mission accomplished. 
More opinions will be gathered at home by members of a Dutch DIY forum and at the general meeting in May.

Who knows, maybe this is the start of a new audiophile brand as I also have a sealed tower design in mind? :innocent:


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## gregdee

buggers said:


> You have not as yet described the soundaddle:
> What kind of music have you listened to on them?


Exactly 

you still did not ?

go on !:devil:


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## gregdee

JamesTRexx said:


> Thanks! For myself I need a light colour to prevent them making the room appear darker, hence high gloss white (I could maybe sell them as high end designer speakers for 100.000 bucks :devil
> But for someone who has a large enough room the size does make for plenty of paint options.
> 
> I'm trying my best to think of the finished product, but the sound, the sound...


I agree here

The dark finish will be very dominant with these size of spkrs .
Light one make it dissappearing - I did exaxtly the same building bass bins for my horns .
1st I painted prothotypes with mahogany as I wanted them to match my wooden horns 
but they got such a visual gravity after that I decided to venner them wit a nice light 
wood ,in this case burling birch ,which looks lovely and made them 10 years younger at once 

You have there a lovely big surfaces on these cabs ,so you can find some veneer with really nice grain 
and make your spkrs looking like a million $$$ even using cheap wood ,nothing exotic.

An apple looks very nice and have fantastic grain and also lovely tones .
An olive wood is lovely too and as apple ,very easy to work with .

You can watch some nice samples here :

http://www.originalmarquetry.co.uk/category_Wood_Veneers_1.htm

It is UK retailer ,so ignore the prices ,but I am sure that you will find a local supplier easy around .


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## gregdee

[/QUOTE]

*Who knows, maybe this is the start of a new audiophile brand as I also have a sealed tower design in mind*? :innocent:



This is very ambicious plan James 
wish you the best ,but in this case the WAF is a must as every commercial product 
have to respect this 

I have just a small experience with an open battle .Quite different speakers I used for as well ( PHy ,Altec ,Lowther etc...to just name a few )Also you music sellection is quite different than my usual choice to be sure I understood your judgement here well .
But I am courious to ask you about any damping you are using there.In the HF section you have there almost closed squared section in D/Apolitito set up ,which always benefit from a high dampimg.
The foam you used there ,I do not know it is still temp . or pernament shouldn't work a lot following my exp. with this kind of materials ?

BUT WHAT i CAN ADVICE YOU is :

Try to damp this space with bitumic matts inside - it should remove a lot of resonances from a cabs.

Then fill it in with a lamb wool felt ( it always worked great for me in compression chamber with every full range spkr I tried it with ).

At the end try to close the back of this chamber .You need to find out an opening of it by experience 
but what I found in HF it always worked better with closed back when proper bar had been used for final tuning ,than full open . The final result was always the better coherence and much more point source sounding /imaging in the range of 800 Hz to the end ,but it probably deppends on your cut off frequenzy ,I believe .

hear you soon mate 

:T


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## JamesTRexx

gregdee said:


> But I am courious to ask you about any damping you are using there.In the HF section you have there almost closed squared section in D/Apolitito set up ,which always benefit from a high dampimg.
> The foam you used there ,I do not know it is still temp . or pernament shouldn't work a lot following my exp. with this kind of materials ?


The foam is just temporary to remove most of the "boxy" sound reflections from the area between the woofer H frame parts.








The front and backside, as well as the bottom and upper side as seen in the picture will be covered with a few milimeters of wool felt. Your suggestion for the baffle is good and used often but I can't make the baffle too thick for the midranges. I still need to widen the rear of the holes to improve the dispersion of the rear wave from the cones (which doesn't have that much room anyways because of the way it's constructed). At the moment tha back sound lightly muffled compared to front.
The felt should be enough to lessen the effect of baffle vibration and standing wave reflections at the back.

I can't close the back as it'll unbalance the power response back and front, and thus negates the intended dipole sound. Depth of soundstage is removed as the back won't sound almost identical to the front as it's now.
As for the point-source effect, these are "pointy" enough as I don't hear any shift in position with frequencies. Same goes for point precision in soundstage as proven (aside from the usual music) by the surround soundfield created by playing movies. Right now I just heard a good example as I watched Event Horizon again since a long while. The intro is great for flashy demo purposes.


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