# Just got AS-EQ1 and have a few questions...



## steve1616

Guys, I have some questions about the AS-EQ1. I just got mine, and tried to calibrate it today. I have an SVS PB13-ultra sub, and I was very impressed with my initial measurements with my PEQ adjusted on the PB13 itself. I might not really even need the AS-EQ1 according to how my initial measurement showed up on the graph. I then switched the PEQ all the way off so that the AS-EQ1 could do all the work. The AS-EQ1 comes up with a perfectly flat graph, but I am having some issues.

I calibrated all of my speakers with an SPL meter prior to doing anything with the AS-EQ1. I had the speakers and sub matched at the 75 decibel reference volume. The AS-EQ1 saw things differently when I let it try to level match. I had to turn my gain down 17 decibels to make the AS-EQ1 happy. During this testing the subwoofer sound was really low in volume compared to what the front sound was. It made a pretty graph, but it also told me to set the front speaker to 40 hertz. I forgot to set the speakers to 40 hz when I started to play music, and you could tell. I had absolutely no bass at all. I remembered to set the front speakers to 40 hz, and this gave me some bass response, but I am confused because the sub is set so low that it actually shuts off because it doesn't have enough of a signal to keep it going. If I make it stay on, it is to low too hear anything anyway. It says I need to set the distance of the sub to 19 feet even though the sub is 8 feet from one listening position and 2-3 feet away from the next 2 listening positions. My sunfire doesn't allow me to set distance on the sub for some reason.

One of the big problems that I am seeing is that the entire graph that Audyssey is figuring is based off of the 40 hz setting that it wants me to put my front speakers to. I can't just change the crossover to 90 because this makes my bass go away entirely which makes sense to me sense my sub setting is so low as figured by Audyssey. Movies are weird because I can't feel any of the bass like I used to. I think I might know what is going on, but if I am right it is very disappointing that the Audyssey can't figure out what I can just by looking at a graph. I think that the microphone is picking up on the hot spot at 45 hz which is making me set the volume way lower for the sub because that one frequency is dang near 12 decibels hot compared to the rest of the sub signal. I think it is then trying to lower to sub volume to match the fronts because all the AS-EQ1 cares about is making a flat signal. This is very bad move because this will work in stereo listening, but causes major problems when the sub is suppose to use its full range on the LFE channel in theater listening.

Can I disconnect the front channel and try to make the AS-EQ1 flatten the sub curve before it tries to blend in to the main speakers? I will try to post my graph so you guys can see what I am seeing. I wanted to show you the graph with just the PEQ on my sub with no AS-EQ1, but once I finalized my settings it made that graph disappear.


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## bac4822

I would contact SVS about your AS-EQ1 setup. Doug McBride from SVS called me and walked me through the steps when I first got mine.

The subwoofer distance is usually set from the AVR. Distances longer than the physical distance of the sub to your listening position are common since they incorporate the delay from the electronics.


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## steve1616

Here is my graph.


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## Wull

I too ran my Audyssey sub pro for the first time this week. What I found was I had to turn my sub's amp way up 'nearly 3/4 on the gain control' to match the center when setting the levels, then after the test calibrated it to 75dB, I found I had to back the gain on the sub's amp to just over 1/4. I have contacted Audyssey regarding this, they said it was fine. 'I didn't want to adjust the trim'

My results also recommended that I set my crossover to 40 hz, having read else where on these forums it seems not a problem to ignore this and just set it to 80 hz.

I set mine to the center speaker as recommended, which also whilst under test gave out a louder test signal than my sub, I may try later with my left spk to see what happens here.

As for sub distance setting it got mine bob on. Also my sub now sounds fantastic.

I am going to calibrate it again today now I've got the hang of it to see if I can achieve better results.


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## steve1616

I don't think it is ok to set the crossover to 80-90 hz if the program figures the formula for 40 hz. This is what my entire problem seems to be. I was told that I need to calibrate the sub only. Then, after the testing, set my front speakers to small at whatever crossover setting, and then level match. I will let you know how it comes out when I do this. Hopefully it will be a lot better because it stinks right now. 

Steve


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## Wull

Oh right, I will email Audyssey again to see what they say about the hz setting. I thought it was just a recommendation that the Audyssey program gives at the end of the calibration but is not set in stone, so if you wished to use a different setting you can.

We're both barking up the right tree here aren't we. I only use Audyssey for my sub nothing else. I will set in my bass management the crossover I decide to choose, so at the end of the day the LFE hz range will be covered by either my sub or satellites.

I will keep you posted.


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## steve1616

I am using my As-EQ1 for the sub only. During the calibration process on my AS-EQ1, it sends test tones to the front speaker also. I believe it is trying to blend my sub and my front speakers, so it seems that it only flattens the sub curve that is under the 40 hz crossover setting. I don't know this for sure, but it is definitely not doing a good job for my sub.


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## Wull

I see what you are saying. I ran REW after my calibration using my sub only and got an almost dead flat response up to 80hz, that's why I figured I could decide what I set the cross over too. I have just emailed Audyssey Steve, as soon as hear something I will let you know.


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## steve1616

I just reran the calibration process with the sub only. The graphs are a little different, but I don't understand why the the mic on the audyssey equipment is showing 18 decibals different than my SPL meter. After I calibrated the sub, I sent test tones from my receiver, and according to my SPL meter I had to correct it 18 decibals. There is no way that there should be this much discrepancy. The mic on the audyssey does agree with my spl meter on the front channels, and I know that the SPL meter can be off on low frequencies, but not by this much. 

One thing that seems wierd is that when I turn audyssey off and on for a demo, the audyssey on seems way louder but also more bloated. Flat bass shouldn't sound bloated, should it. By bloated, the punch seems the same, but some other frequencies seem to cover it up a little.


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## steve1616

I would love to hear what audyssey says. I wonder how they come up with calibration points? Maybe they aren't using the front channel, but I don't know. I think the reason I can't hear the bass has more to do with the decibal difference, and not the crossover setting.


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## Wull

it does sound like you may have a problem with your mic. I would contact Audyssey and let them know your findings https://www.audyssey.com/InstallerWeb/Help.aspx?src=/InstallerWeb/Home.aspx


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## steve1616

I was thinking I might have a problem with my mic also. The only thing that is weird is that the audyssey mic gets the front speaker test tone at the same volume my SPL meter gets it. It only does the sub frequency drastically different. I sent audyssey my questions. Thank you for your help. I will report back my findings.


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## Wull

No thank you Steve, this is all new to me so bouncing Ideas/problems off one an over really helps :T

It is odd that the mic is out that much, wish I could confirm what mine is doing. Unfortunately I am using a processor with analog bypass so it's not that simple of adjusting the Trim level that Audyssey suggests, thats why I have been adjusting the gain on my amp to suit. I will soon be getting a new processor, I have one on order but it's not been relised as yet , hurry up Audiolab :foottap:


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## Wull

Boy, them techs at Audyssey don't hang around. They've just replied saying


> Yes you could move the crossover frequency up but not lower that what the calibration recommend.


So some good news then Steve :T


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## steve1616

They still haven't replied to my question yet. I am thinking that your right about the crossover for sure. That just means that I have to have a mic problem. Or the AS-EQ1 is reading it wrong. It is hard to say. Do you have an SPL meter to verify what your audyssey is reading?


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## Wull

I do Steve. I'm a bit busy now, but I shall have a look at this over the weekend and report back. It stinks when things don't work out how you hoped they would at first, but generally you get their in the end so don't despair, it'll work out alright in the end. 

Will


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## steve1616

Will, I talked to SVS, and they don't know why I am having the problems that I am having. They think that the graphs look like the AS-EQ1 is doing its job, but they don't quite understand the level matching. My brother got an AS-EQ1 at the same time that I got mine so I tried his out, and his did the same exact thing. Maybe we both have bad units since they were shipped out at the same time. Could be a bad batch, but that seems like a small chance. I wish I knew what frequency the test tones that audyssey sends out to the sub are. I moved the sub to a different spot to see if my room was causing problems, and it didn't help. I do have windows 7, so maybe that is causing some incompatibility. I think something is wrong, but I don't know what.


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## Wull

HI Steve. Got to type this quick, I'm off to work in a jiff. :rolleyesno:

I'm using windows 7 so I would forget about that.



> I had to turn my gain down 17 decibels to make the AS-EQ1 happy


The man who I brought my Audyssey had to turn his volume down when calibrating



> During this testing the sub woofer sound was really low in volume compared to what the front sound was


same here, so I don't think this is the problem either. Have you tried calibrating off your center? You did switch off the bass management and run at full range and set all trims to 0?



> I moved the sub to a different spot to see if my room was causing problems, and it didn't help


Did you run REW first to see what your room response is doing?


> I calibrated all of my speakers with an SPL meter prior to doing anything with the AS-EQ1. I had the speakers and sub matched at the 75 decibel reference volume.


Steve. set the trim to 0, then use the volumes gain control to bring the left/center speaker up to 'green' reference level. Then use the sub's volume to do the same, this is where you could being going wrong bud?


then at the end run the 75dB pink noise test and trim match all to suit 'taking your left/center back to it's trim level it was on before test' and adjust the sub accordingly.

Go to go now. Speak/type to you later, good luck :T


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## Tufelhundin

To the OP
What AVR are you using? When I first got my ASEQ I ran the system via the directions....I ran Onkyo 1007 MultEQ-XT then I ran my ASEQ, what I found is that when I ran REW my sub was much hotter. Then they changed the "rules" and say that I should run my ASEQ then run my MultEQ-XT...what happens now that if I set the sub trim "I never hook up the sat for my ASEQ sweep" to -0- on both subs that my AVR trim is set to -14 or -15 on the sub. Now when I run the ASEQ and I get to the trim setup I set both to -2.5 and then the AVR sets the trim level to around -10 or so.

I also have found that via my RS meter that my AVR sets the sats around 67-68 dbs vice 75,,,weird. I was told in the ASEQ thread over on AVS that I should leave it for I use DynEQ and if I change my trim levels it will effect this. As for the distance of the sub...my AVR and the ASEQ are always within .5 difference and its always sets the sub distance "much greater" than they actually are.


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## steve1616

I run a Sunfire receiver. It doesn't have any eq of its own. The AS-eq1 is the only eq in the system.


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## steve1616

Will,



> same here, so I don't think this is the problem either. Have you tried calibrating off your center? You did switch off the bass management and run at full range and set all trims to 0?



I run my calibration test on the front speaker through the 8-channel inputs. This bypasses all bass management so that everything is at full range. The sub test tone is sent out by the AS-EQ1 so that doesn't go through bass management either. I haven't calibrated with the center speaker because it has some problems that might cause bad testing. I need to replace its crossover.




> Did you run REW first to see what your room response is doing?



I ran trueRTA. It is just like rew. It corresponds with the graphs from my AS-EQ1. 



> Steve. set the trim to 0, then use the volumes gain control to bring the left/center speaker up to 'green' reference level. Then use the sub's volume to do the same, this is where you could being going wrong bud?



I don't have to move anything on my front speaker. I just set my Sunfire to 75 decibels on the volume control, and it is already perfect. I do have to do a bunch on my sub. I have to turn the gain down almost all the way to get it to where the program has the green box and shows a reading of near 0 decibels.



> then at the end run the 75dB pink noise test and trim match all to suit 'taking your left/center back to it's trim level it was on before test' and adjust the sub accordingly




This is exactly what I do. I am even using the audyssey mic to do this. SVS showed me how to use the audyssey mic to set trim levels with the 75dB pink noise test. This is when I find out that my sub needs turned back up by 18dB.

Thanks for the help, I'll still keep trying. SVS is great, and they are trying to help also.


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## Wull

Any luck Steve? Did you set the left speaker trim to 0 before carrying out the calibration?


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## steve1616

I am getting closer. I did set the speaker trim to 0, but everything stayed the same. I wonder if this is because I think the 8 channel analogue inputs bypass trim levels also. I am noticing something when I measure the sub on the calibration screen. My SPL meter agrees with the audyssey mic. For some reason this test tone brings things out in my room. It is a very erratic test tone that audyssey uses. My SPL meter just bounces everywhere on this test tone. I think it is bringing out the peak SPL of any frequency which would make sense.

SVS told me to change the phase dial on my sub. This did something weird. It made my 18 dB difference drop down to 13 dB. What is really unexplainable is that I changed the phase back, and it stayed at the 13dB difference. How in can this happen?


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## Wull

steve1616 said:


> . What is really unexplainable is that I changed the phase back, and it stayed at the 13dB difference. How in can this happen?



know Idea Steve, that is odd.


I hope to re run my EQ later today.


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## cavchameleon

Hi Steve,

Strange that you are getting a bloated sound, as you said, it shouldn't. Now for the freq cut off, yes as Will mentioned, you can raise the crossover freq. If you noticed your graphs, Audyssey is correcting to just above the 100 Hz point, so you can easily raise it to 80 so that the bass is sent to the sub (a lot of mid-bass punch is in the 50 Hz range which means that if the setting is 40 Hz, you are not getting that much bass sent to the sub. In AVRs, it's the manufacture that decides the crossover point, Audyssey does not (it just 'recommends' the point, but the manufacture chooses). In my case, Denon choose full band (No bass to the sub) for all my speakers except for the smallest pair - so full band for fronts, center, and surround - and 40hz for my rears. I know that my fronts can easily hit under 30 Hz in room, but this setting is not good since the sub would get no bass. For my crossover settings (some like to just do 80hz across all speakers) I rest the pairs individually to 30 Hz above the speakers lowest capable -3db point (as specified by the speakers specs). For mine, that was, Fronts: 60Hz, Center: 90Hz, Surrounds: 80Hz and Rears: 90Hz (these were just moved to the 'wides' position. 

Another thing is distance. Will is correct in that the unit accounts for both 'actual' acoustical delay (not physical measurement) and electronic delay. The distance that the AS-EQ1 states is very important in order for the Time Domain to be correct. Most AVR's have a place to set the sub distance, I'm not familiar with yours, so not sure.

In an Audyssey based AVR, after you run the AS-EQ1, you just note the distances to verify that the AVR will have the same distance (you first run the AS-EQ1, then the Audyssey in the AVR). When I have done this (with two other Audyssey based AVR's - both Denon and NAD) the distance settings of the AVR always matched the one specified by the AS-EQ1. Now, I had to re-set the crossover freqs as mentioned above, they all set them too low. 

My 2 cents. Hope it helps.


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## steve1616

I appreciate everyones help. I think I have everything solved. Most steady state test tones have that test reference level don't do what the tone in the audyssey does. The audyssey is more of a dynamic tone (just like music) that can excite areas in a room that normal level matching tones can't. I just happen to have some hot frequencies that the audyssey tones bring out in a big way. 

The AS-EQ1 is offereing some good improvement now. The difference can be felt as much as it can be heard. I can tell that I am hearing frequencies that I didn't even know were there. I am happy with how everything is sounding.

I forgot to add that I level match with my receivers test tones after I am done calibrating the AS-EQ1. This is the only way that it will sound good.


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## Tufelhundin

Good to hear that you seem to be satisfied of the results.:T


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## Wull

steve1616 said:


> I can tell that I am hearing frequencies that I didn't even know were there. I am happy with how everything is sounding.


Sounds like you've just about bossed this one Steve, great stuff. :T

Having gone through this thread with you it gave me a few pointers. I found out what was causing me an issue with ground loop hum, this raised it's ugly head when I had to turn the sub's amp up whilst level matching with the center. So I ran the calibration again and adjusted the Trim accordingly, and every thing dropped into place sweetly.

The difference the Audyssey has made to my system is quiet incredible. With 2 channel music my IB is very tuneful, its as if I can hear all the bass notes being played :bigsmile:
With films everything's seems sharper with more punch, the speech though my center speaker has more clarity, again quite incredible. :boxer:

I had wandered about going full EQ, now I'm not so sure, I feel it may not add that much more unless someone thinks other wise? I hope not, could do with out another upgrade possibility, especially the cost of the pro mutli eq :yikes:


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## steve1616

I went over to my brother's house to help him setup his AS-EQ1. First we changed out his woofers on his SVS PB2/plus. His sub didn't sound right. It sounded like he had bit of port noise, and woofer chatter. We noticed his ports were glued in with a hot glue gun, but they were all separated from the glue, and the ports were loose. I thought it would be much better to back the ports out and put silicone between the cardboard on the ports and the holes in the particle board that they go through. We then changed out his old DB12 subwoofers with the newer 12.3 SVS woofers. We couldn't believe how much better it sounded. His new woofers were way clearer, and the silicone eliminated all of the port noise. The new woofers just had a whole different sound and it was impressive. 

We finally got to the point of adding the AS-EQ1. This is where I learned that the level checking problem I was having is completely a non issue. We had to turn his sub way down again to level match the sub to the front left speaker, and then we continued the calibration process. After we were done calibrating we level matched the speakers with his rotel pre amp test tones. These tones made us turn his sub down even further than audyssey. We turned the music on and the sound had no bass at all. We just ignored the level matching tones and used our ears to adjust the bass until the music sound was just like it was a live performance. 

I have found out that test tones can be so different that they can almost be not useful. I will note that my Sunfire test tones were perfect for level matching and made my music sound exactly like it is suppose to. We experimented with the AS-EQ1 in my brother's system and it made the exact same difference as mine. It offered more punch and more frequency resolution. It is hard to spend the kind of money that we did on the AS-EQ1, but it is hard to argue with the results.


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## Wull

steve1616 said:


> It is hard to spend the kind of money that we did on the AS-EQ1, but it is hard to argue with the results.


Couldn't agree more Steve. Audyssey was quiet an investment, though well worth it for me.
I had an Ultra once, great sub, only wished I could have heard her at her best.


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## cavchameleon

Steve,

I'm glad you ironed it all out! Audyssey is very impressive once it's dialed in. I pretty much won't even look at new processors / AVR's that do not have it on board. 

Enjoy!!!


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## Tufelhundin

steve1616 said:


> . It is hard to spend the kind of money that we did on the AS-EQ1, but it is hard to argue with the results.


I concur and that is a GREAT statement. :T The main reason I purchased mine was because I just purchased a 2nd PBU and I was going crazy trying to get the 2 subs to work well with each other and PBU's aren't really light or compact.....:rolleyesno:

With the ASEQ I was able to place the subs that were WAF friendly and achieve an excellent response via REW. For my system the ASEQ along with MultEQ-XT in my 1007 made a very noticeable improvement.



Note: I have since purchased a handtruck to move my subs, probably the 3rd-4th most important part of my HT.lddude::rofl:


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## cavchameleon

^^^  Yep, I'll agree with the handtruck!!! Used many times. 

I also had a hard time blending two subs, so the AS-EQ1 was one of my best investments at the time IMO. With one sub, not and issue, but with two or more, it becomes much more difficult and time consuming to get even close to what this unit can do in such a short time.


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## steve1616

I agree with what everyone is saying about the AS-EQ1 with 2 subs. I only have one sub right now, but I have plans to get a second eventually. This is why I think I am going to keep my AS-EQ1, but I will admit that it is not a huge bargain for one sub. It is noticeable enough that I can hear the difference when I shut it off and on, but it doesn't drasitically change my listening experience. It is nothing like the change a good set of speakers can make. I would probably send it back and get my money back if I had no intentions of getting a second sub just because in my room I can do a very good job with the $100 behringer. The AS-EQ1 is a very good piece of equipment, and you can make a case for it based on what it can do in terms of performance, but it is definitely a case of a audyssey wanting a premium for a product that should be sold much cheaper. There isn't enough good competition so audyssey knows that they can price gouge.


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## cavchameleon

I agree Steve, with one sub it is really not necessary. The Audyssey XT version on most AVR's will do just fine (I was happy with that). Now, with two subs, it is very hard to get them dialed in and that's when the AS-EQ1 really shines- makes it pretty painless (or any AVR with SubEQ).


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## Wull

I haven't got any kind of AV EQ, and having tried the BFD route, then the Antimode, Audyssey SUB EQ was the way forward for me, the results are far better than I previously experianced, yes at an expense, but this also gives me flexibility if I wished to add another IB/sub in the future.

I also agree with Steve regarding the cost, would be nice if it was cheaper.


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## macdon

If I may ask........

I have a single pb13Ultra and controlled by a Velodyne SMS-1. Aside from the simple graph that I could see in the TV, basic sub EQ, DSP, on the fly adjustments of subsonic filters, xovers, phase, etc. ........and lastly the ability or opportunity in adjusting the volume thru a remote - could I benefit more from the AS-EQ1?
Would it require an audyssey audio/video receiver to maximize it?

Sorry about the noob questions regarding sub EQ.


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## Tufelhundin

What AVR are you using? The reason I ask is because if you have MultEQ-XT and are using only one PBU then I would say your set. I have seen what MultEQ-XT alone does with one sub and it was great....I tried it with mine in my own home and I also have a friend that has a PCU and MultEQ-XT and both graphs produced by REW were a lot better than no Audy.

I have an ASEQ and it really shines....but I have dual PBU's.

As for the SMS, I have never used one but I would say that with one PBU you would be fine.


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## cavchameleon

Agreed. If you only have one sub and already have Audyssey MultXT in your AVR, that's enough. The AS-EQ1 really shines when you have more than one sub and may not even be noticeable in a system with Audyssey XT if only using one sub.


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## macdon

Tufelhundin said:


> What AVR are you using? The reason I ask is because if you have MultEQ-XT and are using only one PBU then I would say your set. I have seen what MultEQ-XT alone does with one sub and it was great....I tried it with mine in my own home and I also have a friend that has a PCU and MultEQ-XT and both graphs produced by REW were a lot better than no Audy.
> 
> I have an ASEQ and it really shines....but I have dual PBU's.
> 
> As for the SMS, I have never used one but I would say that with one PBU you would be fine.


I have a Rotel RSP-1068 processor, so no audyssey whatsoever.


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## Tufelhundin

macdon said:


> I have a Rotel RSP-1068 processor, so no audyssey whatsoever.


As big of a fan as I am of SVS, due to price of admission with the ASEQ I would have to say stick with your SMS,,,I guess if you wanted to try something different you could always try the Anti-Mode if your feeling the SMS isnt doing the job.

Are you having bass issues or just wondering if you would get any added benefit form an ASEQ?

If the latter, then I would have to say for the price, no.....unless....you are thinking about duals.:T


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## steve1616

Can you hear a difference with your SMS-1? I just got the AS-EQ1 recently. I can hear a difference when I turn it off, but it isn't something that will blow you away. It is something you have to concentrate on just to hear the difference. Some songs pronounce the differences more. I was only going to keep the AS-EQ1 for the future if I eventually go with 2 subs, but I am starting to wonder if this is worth it. I got a great price, and it does help, but the price to performance ratio for 1 sub is terrible. I am still struggling as to whether or not I will keep this thing.


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## steve1616

I also wanted to point out that the reason that I am thinking of sending my AS-EQ1 back has more to do with other options. I was justifying keeping this EQ because of the ability to help with 2 subs, but maybe I am better off staying with 1 better sub. I love my PBb13/Ultra, but from what I have read, I could build my own sub with a TC sounds LMS 18 Ultra that would very easily beat what 2 PB13/Ultras can do. The LMS 18 Ultra would cost me $900. 2 passive 18's would cost 180 a piece. It would cost around $200 for me to build my own box, and about $450 for a decent amp. That puts me at $1910. I know someone that would buy my sub for what I paid for it. I paid $1500. That puts me at $1910, and I would buy $100 behringer eq to get this sub tuned in. That is a cost outlay of $2,010.00 

If I went the other route. I would have my $1500 PB13/Ultra + 500 black friday AS-EQ1+1799 additional PB13/Ultra= $3799. 

I am just thinking that I am justifying the AS-EQ1 for all the wrong reasons.


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## Tufelhundin

TO be honest here, if a person has only one sub and an avr with MultEQ-XT you are pretty set. MultEQ-XT to me is a great solution and it does wonders in my system.

I bought an ASEQ for one reason, I bought a 2nd PBU. I will also add, I was told by SVS to try the MultEQ-XT on my AVR first, for if the subs were close or co-located I may not need the ASEQ. I had the $$ and I never live in the same house more than 4 years anyway and since I had duals, for me it was a safe bet.


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## steve1616

How much difference did you notice with the second PB Ultra? I know the SPL will change, but that doesn't do justice sometimes to what you feel. Did the second PB Ultra add a lot more rumble down low where you can really feel the difference?


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## tcarcio

For the reasons you guy's have been debating I decided to wait on the ASEQ1 and save a bit more and get the Onkyo 3008 with XT32. It just seems like an easier option to me and it looks like by the time I am ready to buy the Onk will be below the $1000 mark, He said hopefully.....:bigsmile:


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## steve1616

tcarcio, I agree with what you are thinking. I was going to buy the Denon 4311, but just couldn't stand giving up the amplification in my Sunfire TGR-3. I would almost say that the AS-EQ1 would only be a decent option if you have a super high end receiver. Otherwise, the AS-EQ1 is such a high price that it would be a no brainer to replace a normal receiver with something like the Denon 4311 with XT32 and sub eq, and forget all together about the AS-EQ1.


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## Tufelhundin

steve1616 said:


> How much difference did you notice with the second PB Ultra? I know the SPL will change, but that doesn't do justice sometimes to what you feel. Did the second PB Ultra add a lot more rumble down low where you can really feel the difference?




The biggest pro from adding a second sub was that my sweet spot went from the center cushion on the couch...to the whole couch and the love seat. Also another thing I noticed was that I usually set my single PBU at 15hz and could crank it pretty loud, for instance in Ironman during the part of his sonic boom followed by the Jericho (spell?) or during the Hulk fight scene at the end of movie...but if I set the single to 10hz at the same vol, I could sense that sucker was about to strain a bit..scary loud tho...with duals even at opposite walls, I could set them both at 10hz and I dont think I could stay in the room to the point they were going to strain.


Plus...rosewood duals look sweet.


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## tcarcio

steve1616 said:


> tcarcio, I agree with what you are thinking. I was going to buy the Denon 4311, but just couldn't stand giving up the amplification in my Sunfire TGR-3. I would almost say that the AS-EQ1 would only be a decent option if you have a super high end receiver. Otherwise, the AS-EQ1 is such a high price that it would be a no brainer to replace a normal receiver with something like the Denon 4311 with XT32 and sub eq, and forget all together about the AS-EQ1.


Well the good thing about this hobby is that we reserve the right to change nothing, anything, or everything if we like. :heehee:


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## macdon

Tufelhundin said:


> As big of a fan as I am of SVS, due to price of admission with the ASEQ I would have to say stick with your SMS,,,I guess if you wanted to try something different you could always try the Anti-Mode if your feeling the SMS isnt doing the job.
> 
> Are you having bass issues or just wondering if you would get any added benefit form an ASEQ?
> 
> If the latter, then I would have to say for the price, no.....unless....you are thinking about duals.:T


Oh no issues with the sms-1 - like you mentioned, just wondering if I could get any added benefits from the AS-EQ.

When I tried the DIY route before I had the SVS sub, I got the SMS-1 to control my Kappa 12" VQ MidQ DIY plan from Audioholics using a JL Audio 12w6v2 subwoofer driver. I needed the features of the SMS-1 with that DIY project and when I sold it, I didnt sell the sms-1 as I thought I could still use some of its features in a commercial sub.
I used it with my previous SVS pb12nsd and now with my pb13Ultra.

Here in Manila, the price of the AS-EQ is half the cost of a pb13Ultra - so was naturally wondering if it would give any added benefits as compared to the SMS-1.


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## steve1616

I wish I had a DSP 1124 to compare side by side with the AS-EQ1. I have a feeling that there wouldn't be that much difference. Every room is different, but I just can't understand the reviews that say how awesome the AS-EQ1 is when it just doesn't seem that great to me. It does sound better, but I haven't compared it side by side with anything else. I just have to wonder why the AS-EQ1 isn't selling for $250 when they practically give it away with the XT32 systems. I have a feeling that this technology is going to get cheap, and I will be stuck with an expensive EQ if I don't send it back. On a side note, I haven't heard a single owner of an XT32 system that has said that it sounded as good on the low frequencies as an AS-EQ1, but I can't hear much of a difference between the AS-EQ1 or nothing at all. Something has to be wrong with my ears.


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## Tufelhundin

steve1616 said:


> I wish I had a DSP 1124 to compare side by side with the AS-EQ1. I have a feeling that there wouldn't be that much difference. Every room is different, but I just can't understand the reviews that say how awesome the AS-EQ1 is when it just doesn't seem that great to me. It does sound better, but I haven't compared it side by side with anything else. I just have to wonder why the AS-EQ1 isn't selling for $250 when they practically give it away with the XT32 systems. I have a feeling that this technology is going to get cheap, and I will be stuck with an expensive EQ if I don't send it back. On a side note, I haven't heard a single owner of an XT32 system that has said that it sounded as good on the low frequencies as an AS-EQ1, but I can't hear much of a difference between the AS-EQ1 or nothing at all. Something has to be wrong with my ears.


Not necessarily...


With one sub the ASEQ can help if you have some serious issues with your frequency response in your room, some people like a sub that has a peak at 40-50hz and the freq res is about as flat as the Panhandle of Idaho. A sub that plays flatter to some just sounds weaker. There was a guy over on the Bluray forum "I believe" that got an SVS after owning a much weaker sub for years and was very disappointed with the sound from the sound the SVS was putting out. Of course the frequency response of his older, much weaker showed that it had a huge hump around 45hz and he liked that....the SVS freq was much smoother and had way more down low. He ended up keeping the SVS but he had to move it around until he found "the spot" and he had to listen to it for a while.

I have to be honest, when I got my 1st PBU, I thought something was very wrong for there was no boom....come to find out that bass scenes in movies actually have a sound and not just boom.

As for the cost of admission of an ASEQ, well, I bought my Onk 1007 about 5 months after it debuted and I paid pretty much top dollar and look at them now, at A4L they are less than 1/2 off... they way I see it I have been enjoying it all this time before they dropped and I have zero regrets.

The SMS when it first came out was pricey as well, not sure what it cost now, and I'm sure the price's will drop as technology moves along, about the safest electronic to me that you can buy now and it wont much improve in 10-20-30 years from now is an amp....other than that pretty much all electronics do and waiting till the next model comes out is sometimes the best way to save to cash. 

Sorry for the ramble...but seriously, if your not happy with your ASEQ, get rid of it now and use that $$ on something else...room treatments.:T *You never know, this time next year you may get another sub *and that is when the ASEQ will shine for its what its meant for "to me"....*and SVS may throw in an ASEQ with a purchase of a PBU.* :yikes: If you had duals and was about to pull your hair out because you could find the right spot for both of the subs to work together as I did and there are only so many places to put a PBU and I get tired of moving them....the ASEQ at cost was a blessing.


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## Dwight Angus

Tufelhundin said:


> Not necessarily...
> 
> 
> With one sub the ASEQ can help if you have some serious issues with your frequency response in your room, some people like a sub that has a peak at 40-50hz and the freq res is about as flat as the Panhandle of Idaho. A sub that plays flatter to some just sounds weaker. There was a guy over on the Bluray forum "I believe" that got an SVS after owning a much weaker sub for years and was very disappointed with the sound from the sound the SVS was putting out. Of course the frequency response of his older, much weaker showed that it had a huge hump around 45hz and he liked that....the SVS freq was much smoother and had way more down low. He ended up keeping the SVS but he had to move it around until he found "the spot" and he had to listen to it for a while.
> 
> I have to be honest, when I got my 1st PBU, I thought something was very wrong for there was no boom....come to find out that bass scenes in movies actually have a sound and not just boom.
> 
> As for the cost of admission of an ASEQ, well, I bought my Onk 1007 about 5 months after it debuted and I paid pretty much top dollar and look at them now, at A4L they are less than 1/2 off... they way I see it I have been enjoying it all this time before they dropped and I have zero regrets.
> 
> The SMS when it first came out was pricey as well, not sure what it cost now, and I'm sure the price's will drop as technology moves along, about the safest electronic to me that you can buy now and it wont much improve in 10-20-30 years from now is an amp....other than that pretty much all electronics do and waiting till the next model comes out is sometimes the best way to save to cash.
> 
> Sorry for the ramble...but seriously, if your not happy with your ASEQ, get rid of it now and use that $$ on something else...room treatments.:T *You never know, this time next year you may get another sub *and that is when the ASEQ will shine for its what its meant for "to me"....*and SVS may throw in an ASEQ with a purchase of a PBU.* :yikes: If you had duals and was about to pull your hair out because you could find the right spot for both of the subs to work together as I did and there are only so many places to put a PBU and I get tired of moving them....the ASEQ at cost was a blessing.


I completely agree. The cost of the AS-EQ1 is worth it. For me to push around 2 x pbu's both on and off the riser is tricky and exhausting. Well worth the cost.


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## Wull

> I wish I had a DSP 1124 to compare side by side with the AS-EQ1


I couldn't get my 1124 to get anywhere close to my Audyssey sub pro.


steve1616 said:


> I just have to wonder why the AS-EQ1 isn't selling for $250 when they practically give it away with the XT32 systems. I have a feeling that this technology is going to get cheap, and I will be stuck with an expensive EQ if I don't send it back. On a side note, I haven't heard a single owner of an XT32 system that has said that it sounded as good on the low frequencies as an AS-EQ1, but I can't hear much of a difference between the AS-EQ1 or nothing at all. Something has to be wrong with my ears.


Why is it that this technology is nearly given away in AV's, is it an inferior product i.e microphone?


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## steve1616

magicj1 said:


> I couldn't get my 1124 to get anywhere close to my Audyssey sub pro.
> 
> 
> Why is it that this technology is nearly given away in AV's, is it an inferior product i.e microphone?


I am kind of wondering this same thing. If it was equal like Chris at audyssey says, then why does everyone with XT32 say that the AS-EQ1 did a better job for the sub or subs. 

I wonder if I was just expecting too much from my AS-EQ1. I can pretty consistently tell when it is off or on so it does make at least a noticeable enough change, but I just expected more for the price. Everyone always thinks that the grass is greener on the other side, and that could be why I wonder about the DSP 1124. My brother got an AS-EQ1, and he has the same feelings as me. He notices the improvements, and he is happy with them, but he thinks the improvements should amount to about $300 worth. He only has a single sub just like me, of course he has 2 woofers in his sub if that makes any difference. 

One thing I have read from different people is that they like the AS-EQ1 better than the sub eq on the XT32 setup for another reason also. People were saying that you have to eq the entire system with the xt 32 setup in the avr. This means that if you don't like what the xt-32 does to the mids or highs, you still have to leave it on for it to eq your sub. People have said that it is all or nothing. This seems to be a huge advantage in favor of the AS-EQ1, especially considering how many people seem to not like what audyssey does for the mids. If I was loaded with money, it would be a no brainer to keep the AS-EQ1. It just means I have to save for a little longer to get the SVS MTS-02 speakers. I am quite certain that the MTS-02 speaker will make drastic sound improvements after listening to my brothers STS-02's. They were very impressive.


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## cavchameleon

Hi Steve,

I agree with the above statements. The AS-EQ1 is really meant to help with two subs. I've had experience with it on one sub, two subs, with MultXT and XT32 so will give my 2 cents. Fist off, as mentioned by Tufelhundin, if you do not have 'large areas/errors' in the freq response in your room, then there is not much to correct. Maybe with your one sub in your room and the location of the sub, you already have a decent response with no eq. The AS-EQ1 is not supposed to add any OOMPH to your system, it simply smooths the freq response of the sub/subs, and corrects in the time domain. If you like it hotter, then you would need to increase the level. If there was a hot spot in part of the spectrum that you liked before, well, it will be gone now (but if you listen to some bass notes in music, they will sound much clearer - it's pretty amazing actually).

When I added the AS-EQ1 in my system with two subs, it was worth every penny to me - was just too hard getting two subs in different location to blend well, and this unit did it very well. I had it in my system which had MultXT and was very happy with the result. When I moved up to XT32, I did LOTS of re-runs of Audyssey, comparing it with the AS-EQ1 in and out of the system. Yes, it was smoother with the SVS unit. I concluded that it was because of how many positions I could measure. With the AS-EQ1, I always did 32 measurements, with XT32 you only get 8 (unless you - purchase the Pro Kit, which in itself is expensive: $500 for the kit and $150 for the license). So, I tried the AS-EQ1 with only the 8 measurements and then it pretty much approaches the same sound as the XT32 SubEQ - hard to tell the difference (of course once level matched - it seems like the SubEQ on the AVR was always lower than the main, the SVS unit somehow corrected for it).

Anyway, one question to ask, are you using all 32 positions when you measure? It does make a difference. You may be wondering, 'where do I take that many positions'. In my case (small room) I did 16 positions around the ML position (always do the ML position first) at the listening height. Then I re-did 16 more measurements in approximately the same positions, but raised the mic 5 inches. I figured it would give Audyssey a chance to 'see' more of the listening space. It does make it smoother, in my room, than taking all 32 measurements at the same height. Try it out and see if it will make a difference in your room. Also, when comparing the Audyssey on/off, double check the levels - you want them within 1db to make a good comparison. You may have a peak with Audyssey off that is corrected with it on that you prefer.


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## Dwight Angus

cavchameleon said:


> Hi Steve,
> 
> I agree with the above statements. The AS-EQ1 is really meant to help with two subs. I've had experience with it on one sub, two subs, with MultXT and XT32 so will give my 2 cents. Fist off, as mentioned by Tufelhundin, if you do not have 'large areas/errors' in the freq response in your room, then there is not much to correct. Maybe with your one sub in your room and the location of the sub, you already have a decent response with no eq. The AS-EQ1 is not supposed to add any OOMPH to your system, it simply smooths the freq response of the sub/subs, and corrects in the time domain. If you like it hotter, then you would need to increase the level. If there was a hot spot in part of the spectrum that you liked before, well, it will be gone now (but if you listen to some bass notes in music, they will sound much clearer - it's pretty amazing actually).
> 
> When I added the AS-EQ1 in my system with two subs, it was worth every penny to me - was just too hard getting two subs in different location to blend well, and this unit did it very well. I had it in my system which had MultXT and was very happy with the result. When I moved up to XT32, I did LOTS of re-runs of Audyssey, comparing it with the AS-EQ1 in and out of the system. Yes, it was smoother with the SVS unit. I concluded that it was because of how many positions I could measure. With the AS-EQ1, I always did 32 measurements, with XT32 you only get 8 (unless you - purchase the Pro Kit, which in itself is expensive: $500 for the kit and $150 for the license). So, I tried the AS-EQ1 with only the 8 measurements and then it pretty much approaches the same sound as the XT32 SubEQ - hard to tell the difference (of course once level matched - it seems like the SubEQ on the AVR was always lower than the main, the SVS unit somehow corrected for it).
> 
> Anyway, one question to ask, are you using all 32 positions when you measure? It does make a difference. You may be wondering, 'where do I take that many positions'. In my case (small room) I did 16 positions around the ML position (always do the ML position first) at the listening height. Then I re-did 16 more measurements in approximately the same positions, but raised the mic 5 inches. I figured it would give Audyssey a chance to 'see' more of the listening space. It does make it smoother, in my room, than taking all 32 measurements at the same height. Try it out and see if it will make a difference in your room. Also, when comparing the Audyssey on/off, double check the levels - you want them within 1db to make a good comparison. You may have a peak with Audyssey off that is corrected with it on that you prefer.


I agree with Ray. The filter resolution in the AS-EQ1 and XT32 are the same for subs according to Chris at Audyssey. Therefore the performance difference reflects the change in the resolution profiles based on 32 measuremtents vs 8. 

I take all 32 measurements mainly around the ML position which is my case the 3 seats in the front row (front row used 95% of the time) and I stay away from room boundaries. The measurements are at ear height and slightly above and below ear height as the seats recline. I ignore the 2nd row of seats due to proximity to rear wall boundary thats would skew the results. This approach has worked really well for me. When I measured each and every seat in both rows I don't like the result as low frequencies were noticeably subdued.

The As-eq1 has enabled a huge performance improvement for me and I can hear much more detail in lower frequencies. I increase the sub trim n the avr by 3db beyond what the AS-EQ1 suggests due to personal taste. The level will not effect the EQ.

When I upgrade my avr that includes XT32 I will keep the AS-Eq1 in the setup.


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## steve1616

I have only used 16 positions so I will try 32 and see if that helps. I put the mic at ear height, and then make a circle with the mic all around the initial position. Basically, I put the mic a few inches above and below the ear height position and then a few inches to the left and right of the middle listening position. 
I will try to post my graphs below so you can see what it is doing. 

The reason I believe the AS-EQ1 is adding oomph to music is because it raises the decibals on my nulls in the frequency response. You can feel the difference almost more then you can hear it. It is hard to level match when listening to dynamic music, but even when I raise the decibals on the non equalized music to match the equalized music, there is still a punch difference. The non equalized music has a peak at 45 hertz that I don't really like, and the equalized music has a punch that seems to come from the 75 Hz range. The 45 Hz hump was annoying before I got the AS-EQ1, but my PB13 Ultra has a single PEQ that I took that peak out with so that was never really a problem. I do wonder if it is a little sales gimmick that when I turn the AS-EQ1 on, it raises the decibals a little also. I think my graphs below will tell you why I think the EQ adds a little oomph.


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## Tufelhundin

steve1616 said:


> I have only used 16 positions so I will try 32 and see if that helps. I put the mic at ear height, and then make a circle with the mic all around the initial position. Basically, I put the mic a few inches above and below the ear height position and then a few inches to the left and right of the middle listening position.
> I will try to post my graphs below so you can see what it is doing.
> 
> The reason I believe the AS-EQ1 is adding oomph to music is because it raises the decibals on my nulls in the frequency response. You can feel the difference almost more then you can hear it. It is hard to level match when listening to dynamic music, but even when I raise the decibals on the non equalized music to match the equalized music, there is still a punch difference. The non equalized music has a peak at 45 hertz that I don't really like, and the equalized music has a punch that seems to come from the 75 Hz range. The 45 Hz hump was annoying before I got the AS-EQ1, but my PB13 Ultra has a single PEQ that I took that peak out with so that was never really a problem. I do wonder if it is a little sales gimmick that when I turn the AS-EQ1 on, it raises the decibals a little also. I think my graphs below will tell you why I think the EQ adds a little oomph.


You wouldnt happen to have an REW graph would you? Even at the main listening position?


Here is my average of only 8 positions in a concrete basement with no furniture that I made to a custom 25'9" x 12' x 7'8" by using wooden wall locker filled with linens.

I used the ASEQ in 9 positions, then ran my TX-NR1007 over the same 8 and then took an average of the same 9 with REW.


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## steve1616

I don't have a REW graph with the AS-EQ1 in the setup, but I do have one that shows it with and without my PEQ on the sub. I guess it isn't REW, it is TrueRta. These are my main 2 listening positions.


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## Tufelhundin

Interesting how your graph shows that the sub his really HOT and and the ASEQ shows that its just the opposite.


I dont know what to say other than a single sub is easier to set up to have a SWEET sweetspot, and an ASEQ wont do much but try its best to flatten the freq response. Which is the reason SVS added the PEQ, was due to being able to tame a peak.


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## steve1616

I didn't tune my sub at reference level with TruRta. I tuned it at my normal listening level. I am assuming that is why you think it looks hot.


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## steve1616

I just did REW on my listening positions. I have graphs that I will post when I read how to save the files as valid files.


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## steve1616

This is one listening position. It is a chair

Purple= No EQ Gold= SVS PEQ 1 filter Green=AS-EQ1


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## steve1616

This is my couch. 

Purple= NO EQ Gold= SVS PEQ 1 filter Green= AS-EQ1


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## steve1616

This is my main listening position called recliner.

Purple=No EQ Gold= SVS PEQ 1 filter Green-AS-EQ1


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## steve1616

Is the AS-EQ1 really helping much? Just the single PEQ on the sub seems to be doing a decent job.


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## Tufelhundin

Well, it depends on a couple of things I guess. What area are you doing the sweeps with when you are measuring with the ASEQ? I mean, are you using 8 positions around your recliner or 8 positions around the whole area or you using more positions? The ASEQ can be used to measure up to 32 positions and the last time I used it I only measured 9 locations but it encompassed the whole couch that we tend to sit on. When you measure with the ASEQ to see what its really doing you need multiple measurement will REW, unless you run the minimum sweeps in one spot...

Your PEQ doesn't look bad at all, the big thing is you are using one sub and the most important key with it is *location*. For you can locate that sub in a spot that will make your recliner sound sweet for sure, but by using a single sub your not going to be able to get that sweet sound in different locations, when you add a second one then this will change, the plus side of the ASEQ as mentioned before is if you have duals that are not co-located it will help them play together. When I had a single PBU I used the MultEQ-XT on my AVR and was very happy, when I got my 2nd PBU...I was about to fill up both of them with C4 and watch them go *BOOM* one last time, I couldn't get them to play well at all. The ASEQ fixed that in my system and now it doesn't matter where I sit on my couch, I'm pretty much in the sweet spot and that goes over to the love seat as well.

When I took the measurement in the attachment I ran 9 measurements with the ASEQ and then my AVR's MultEQ-XT, then I put the mic in the exact 9 spaces that I used for the ASEQ "I can only run 8 measurements using the AVR", and I got this average sweep. Unfortunately I didn't save the 9 separate measurements from REW.

The ASEQ will try to provide a flat response in the area that is measured, it will try to knock out the peaks and flatten out the response "in the area that was measured".

The question concerning the ASEQ is...when you are using it, does it sound better than when your not? If not, then I say sell it, for at least you gave it a shot to see what it can or can not do for your room.



For your one sub and your sweet spot you can continue with the PEQ or even give the Behringer a try, lots of info here and a learning curve to boot.

Sorry for all the ramble...


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## steve1616

I see what you are saying. With the AS-EQ1, I measured 4 positions in every location except the couch got 6 measurements. With REW, I just measured the center position of every spot. That could affect things. Also, the chair and the couch are very close together, and they got the most measurements which might dilute my recliners response a little. The AS-EQ1 does sound different for some reason. You have to really concentrate on the music to pick out a difference in the sound, but the AS-EQ1 does sound a little better I think. That is most of the reason I ran REW is because for my 1 sub the AS-EQ1 doesn't seem to sound enough better to justify the price compared to the free PEQ that my sub comes with. I don't know what to do.


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## cavchameleon

Steve,

Tufelhundin has the right idea on doing comparisons. One note, when you are measuring with the AS-EQ1, it is actually better to get a better representation of the listening area, not just the listening spots. So, as you can 'prioritize' an area by taking several readings in one spot, for the other spots it is better to move the mic around the listening area, even if only a foot apart, to give Audyssey a better 'view of the room'. 

Another thing to consider, Audyssey does not only correct the FR but also the time domain, so that in itself can make a difference in the sound - just as important as the FR and most other EQ systems do not take this into account. This is where Audyssey (and Trinovv) shine IMO.


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## steve1616

Ray, I might try what you said when I get my sunfire back. I had to send it in for repairs so I haven't been able to tinker much (some LED's went out). Are you saying that I should put the mic in other area's of the room that are for example between my recliner and the chair. I thought this would skew my listening areas and compromise them to try to make the in between spots better, also. I will give this a try, and see what happens. I will report back after I try this. I would be a very happy camper if this would help. I might try using all 32 positions to see if that helps, also. I have only used 14 positions at this point.


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## cavchameleon

Steve,

Yes, do measure the 'listening area', not the 'listening spots'. Chris from Audyssey has re-hashed this point to many as most think it just important to measure the listening spots. When I did my measurements with this unit, I used all 32 positions. On the couch itself, I measured each seating position and between each seating position. Them I re-did the measurements, but just one foot in front - then another row just another foot in front. After that was done, I did measurements in the same areas, but at a higher position. Try it out to see if it helps. You may need to do a couple runs and take notes so you know which one sounds the best to you (you may have to re-do the one that sounds best).


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## steve1616

I'll give it a try. I do notice a difference in sound between my PEQ and my audyssey AS-EQ1 even though the graphs look pretty close to each other. Maybe this might be the change in the time domain that you were talking about. If measuring everywhere can just make a little bit of improvement, then it would definitely be enough to sway me to keep this thing. Hopefully sunfire will get me my receiver back timely so that I can test this thing out some more before my trail period is up. Thanks for the suggestions.


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