# Mid-Low range or Preamp/processor?



## Oldschoolnut (Jul 28, 2014)

Hi, I'm new to the forums. I've been around audio for a while, but not as much into Home theater.

I had an Onkyo TS Rx705 die due to the issues they have with failed capacitors on the HDMI switching board. So I am in the market to replace it.

I have had 2 Onkyo units in a row with switching failures, so I may lean toward staying away from them, but if something is proving outstanding I may bite the bullet. 

First my pricerange: Trying to stay below $800 if possible

Goals: Either a complete, ready to go Avr, or one that is a preamp....I don't know what to call it? It should do everything a receiver does, but use external power amps. I have 4 Soundcraftsmen amplifiers Id like to use to power the speakers. So I need an AVR that has pre-outs or whatever you call a unit that is only the audio/video switching and decoding.

-Bluetooth capable

-ethernet or wifi capable, able to play hi def files (called dsd, I believe)

So, I've looked a little, but have a hard time determining the route to head. To give you an idea which way I am leaning, Ive looked at the Sony STR dn850 and 1050. Also the current Yamaha Rx v677 and 777

I don't know the pros and cons, vs Marantz and Denon. I haven't really looked much yet. I slightly prefer the idea of using my amps, but again, if something is outstanding I will consider it.

Hopefully Ive given enough info to help

Jon


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Oldschoolnut said:


> First my pricerange: Trying to stay below $800 if possible
> 
> So I need an AVR that has pre-outs or whatever you call a unit that is only the audio/video switching and decoding.
> 
> ...


Hi Jon,

Welcome to HTS. Before the "Brand fans" descend and let us know which brand is "best" because they own it or sounds/works best for them ...let me just say of the two Yamahas you mentioned, the 777BT has preamp outputs all channels and thus would be a better option than the 677 in that regard, for connecting your external amps...and still squeezing just inside your budget.
You'll probably get varying opinions on reliability and efficacy of the onboard "room correction" software like YPAO vs Audyssey vs ___ etc, etc....but very few facts/data. Take this advice accordingly.
Best to choose based on your desired feature set.
Lastly, regarding "hi rez"/dsd capability, most should have such ability, but IMHO, it is completely frivolous in terms of actual SQ, but may be necessary because of file type/downloads/etc.
My 2c.

cheers


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## Oldschoolnut (Jul 28, 2014)

Thanks for the quick reply. I realize what potential terror my question may unleash  

I like the looks of the Sony, but I've never owned Sony equipment any other than a silver face Tuner. The only really modern stuff I've owned that was of any quality was the two failed Onkyo's. Before that it was mostly Bpc of the JVC theatre variety, some of which I liked at the time. I'd have to connect it up now to see if that thought continues. Somehow I doubt it.


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## Oldschoolnut (Jul 28, 2014)

The Yamaha has my attention though. It's a little disheartening that my Onkyo was 60lbs and these latest versions are in the 25lb range. Of course 60 lbs only applies to scrap value at this point


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Was that issue related to heat by chance? I'm just curious because this thread showed up today as well, and in it he speaks of an inordinate amount of heat being generated by his Onkyo.


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## Oldschoolnut (Jul 28, 2014)

theJman said:


> Was that issue related to heat by chance? I'm just curious because this thread showed up today as well, and in it he speaks of an inordinate amount of heat being generated by his Onkyo.


Yes. The capacitors are poorly rated on the board that handles the hdmi switching I bought and replaced several, but ruined one of the electrical traces on the board and gave up. The unit gets extremely hot even in standby. It has two fans, but from what I could tell, they never turned in 6 years. The capacitors are a widely known issue, the fans less so.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Not to start any brand bashing but dont go with a Sony, My cousin has gone through 3 Sony receivers due to failure in the same time frame Ive had my one and only Onkyo. Yamaha is a good option and I still think Onkyo is a good choice. My 805 is still going strong.


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## Oldschoolnut (Jul 28, 2014)

I miss stated the model of my Onkyo. It is indeed an 805, not a 705. I assume yours runs quite hot also? Very common complaint. Some people luck out, unfortunately many don't. I try to take experiences like yours, mine and your friends with a grain of salt. 

I had two bad units in a row, you had a great one. Some would give up with the experience I've had, but unless I was buying that same model again, I don't think it necessarily equates. So I am leery of Onkyo, but not against trying another. Some people would never buy anything but an Onkyo, same goes for Sony


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## Oldschoolnut (Jul 28, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> Not to start any brand bashing but dont go with a Sony, My cousin has gone through 3 Sony receivers due to failure in the same time frame Ive had my one and only Onkyo. Yamaha is a good option and I still think Onkyo is a good choice. My 805 is still going strong.


By the way were any of them current Sony models? Also, is there a new lineup yet at Onkyo?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Oldschoolnut said:


> By the way were any of them current Sony models? Also, is there a new lineup yet at Onkyo?


Yes, they were all new models. His latest is an ES series I think so we will see how long it lasts.
Yes Onlyo has several new ones out now. See here on some news


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## Oldschoolnut (Jul 28, 2014)

It's irritating that the pre-puts only go on higher end models with already high wattage ratings. With average external amplifiers it seems pointless. My Soundcraftsmen are far from average though. Does any manufacturer make a unit without an amp section (or a minimal one) that isn't really expensive?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Sadly not really, Receivers simply sell more units than pre pros so the cost of a decent receiver with pre outs is less than a "simple" pre pro.
I agree, a low end receiver could use pre outs more than something higher but again its about money and also what makes sense, people who buy the lower end stuff usually dont care about the added quality.
The Outlaw Audio 975 is about the lowest cost pre pro I can think of.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I would second the Outlaw 975, I've had my eye on it for a while. Just waiting for the "need" to replace my trusty Denon 3805.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Oldschoolnut said:


> The Yamaha has my attention though. It's a little disheartening that my Onkyo was 60lbs and these latest versions are in the 25lb range. Of course 60 lbs only applies to scrap value at this point


We had recently a looong thread about the (ir)relevance of AVR weight. 
If you intend to use even a single (stereo) Soundcraftsmen amp, it becomes moot. Using an external amp for even the front channels offloads enough demands of the AVR power supply (the main "weight" in your Onkyo), that it will then allow the AVR to deliver near(er) full power into the remaining channels.
Using two for the LCR front stage, better yet.

cheers


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Oldschoolnut said:


> It's irritating that the pre-puts only go on higher end models with already high wattage ratings. With average external amplifiers it seems pointless. My Soundcraftsmen are far from average though.


That is precisely why I never buy the "top of line", which will shortly be obsolete .
I buy the highest "mid" model with all the features I need, including mandatory pre-outs all channels...and use an external power amp (which doesn't go obsolete) for the front 2-3 ch. The AVR then always has sufficient power for the remaining channels...and I never have buyers remorse.

cheers


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