# I don't get it.



## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

The whole WAF thing is a mystery to me.:dontknow: This guy can't have floor standers that guy isn't allowed to have wires.:unbelievable: Guys, what are you allowed to have?:rant: How about cultivating a little self respect and developing a backbone.:devil: Do you have any say about anything concerning where and how you live?:rolleyesno: I could understand this if I heard any mention of an HT room, man cave or even a converted unheated garage. It seems that many "men" live in situations where they sit on furniture they didn't help to choose and don't like.:sad: The room is decorated to please the "W" and there is nothing of you anywhere in the house but the half a closet the "W" allows you to have.:rofl: Of course you are required to keep the closet arranged in a manner the "W" finds acceptable.:neener: Would someone please explain to me what kind of partnership this is?:scratchhead: Is there any space in your home that's truly comfortable to you?:sarcastic: I'm willing to bet money the "W" is happy and satisfied with the furnishings and decor.:doh: Why do "males" always have to sacrifice?:hissyfit:

Things are way too quiet on this site. This post should wake some people up.


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## Nuance (Nov 2, 2008)

My wife is very cool, so this isn't an issue for me (mostly). To be nice, though, I let her pick the veneer on my last speaker; seemed to have worked like a charm, as she was all of the sudden now interested.

For those that do not have a dedicated room, the speakers will have to be a good deal away from the front and side walls (well into the room) to sound their best, and will be very noticeable to all who enter said room (likely the family room or living room). The "W" generally wants the room to look nice, which many speakers do not, hence the WAF problems. If you're serious about Audio, be sure the speakers pass WAF or they'll eventually end up on Audiogon...causing this to ensue: :hissyfit:


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## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

To some the WAF is important because if the "W" isn't happy then no one is happy, Some who enjoy are hobby don't have the ability to have a Man Cave, so I can understand the need to keep peace in the house. That being said to the single men who enjoy this hobby of ours make sure when you decide to get married there are three options you have here:

1) Make sure your future wife likes HT or she doesn't care as long as your happy.

2) You have better taste in furniture than your future wife.

3) Add this stipulation to your wedding vows that you can have a Man Cave


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## victor tubeman (Feb 3, 2010)

Hi,

I will make all you guys look good,I am asked why so many big boxes in the rooms?


To make it all work.

Cheers Victor.


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

For me, WAF goes two different directions.

Right now I am struggling with trying to get the couch pulled out 3-3.5 ft from the back wall in order to get some speakers behind it. However, the back of my front towers are out about 14-16" from the wall and when I wanted to get a matching Infinity C360 center, the wife said no, it had to be bigger!

So my front sound stage is good and I am now looking at getting a 7 driver center that will be about 4' wide...but I can't pull the couch out to put speakers behind it?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

This hobby is for both of us not just me. We both enjoy movies and we both need to have a say in what is acceptable. For me its simply "a happy wife is a happy life" and there are no exceptions.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

JoeESP9 said:


> The whole WAF thing is a mystery to me.:dontknow:


Next time you come out of your basement bedroom at your Mom's house, we'll explain it to you.


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## chadnliz (Feb 12, 2010)

DougMac said:


> Next time you come out of your basement bedroom at your Mom's house, we'll explain it to you.


HAHAHAHA...........the sounds like a guy who either hasnt been married or has failed at being married.
In a partnership you make compromise. I had to for years but was lucky enough to get my own space a few years ago and she doesnt mess with it. Some wives take it a bit far but its nobody elses business or right to stick their nose in.
I do see many times when a wife runs the home its cause the guy isnt capable, he may work and earn money but he doesnt clean, pay bills or much of anything around the home to help. These guys deserve what they get many times. Like somebody else said "happy wife happy life" and if more kept their wives truely happy they would get more rights to do what they wish. Many times these are thr guys who maybe drink too much at times or all the time, golf too much or whatever and they get what they deserve.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

DougMac said:


> Next time you come out of your basement bedroom at your Mom's house, we'll explain it to you.


I'm 62 years old and retired. I've been married twice. Neither marriage broke up because of my passion for audio. I own my home and my current girlfriend stays here 70% of the time. I have made comments about my first wife in the thread about the "Ten Biggest Lies In Audio". My second wife asked for my then Acoustat 3's when we split up. 

I am well aware that a marriage, any marriage requires a lot of compromise. It's just that sometimes it seems that the guy does most if not all of the compromising.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

i think men in general have a bit less interest in aesthetics vs women, often placing performance over looks. I know my wife is far more interest in how things look, especially cleanliness, as she perceives the home condition reflects on her, so she wants everything just so if company come by (hardly ever), but anyways, as said, you live together- you gotta get along!

Side note- sometimes its the guy who creates such an environment: a guy I worked with would always 'coochy-poochy' speak to his wife on the phone at work, 'I'm sorry you had a tough day', sniff-sniff, 'awww, I'm sorry', sniff-sniff...:rolleyesno: Even the FEMALE co-workers couldn't stand listening to him-really!:rofl: We had to listen to this throughout the day, all the time! The guy is 24 yrs old and been married five years!:yikes: He couldn't believe my wife ever let me have something more than a htib, much less the LLT sub, etc. :neener:


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

My first wife became angry with me when I traded a pair of Maggy MG-3's in for a pair of Acoustats. She initially said the Acoustats sounded too clinical. She ended up liking them after they were broken in. She played music louder than I did.


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## FlashJim (May 6, 2006)

I'm lucky. My wife lets me do what I want. Mainly because I don't go nuts. Ok, an IB is kinda nuts, but it takes up less floorspace than my last sub.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

JoeESP9 said:


> It's just that sometimes it seems that the guy does most if not all of the compromising.


Like someone else said, each marriage is different, and as long as both people are happy overall the particulars shouldn't really matter to the rest of us. Some guys dream of having big huge speakers that the wife won't allow. But you have to remember that the guy allows the wife not to allow it. Overall, he's happy: it's either not that important to him really, or he's getting something else in return he feels is a reasonable tradeoff. If he's not happy overall, the marriage is doomed. I imagine we all dream about things we can't have. That's part of what makes the world go around. 

Personally I think at least one of my friends who claims his wife won't let him spend the money on a real HT setup actually uses that as an excuse because he's afraid to admit to me that he doesn't really see the point. I bet this happens more often than us guys are willing to admit. 

OTOH, I'd been bugging the same guy for years to at least hook his stereo up so he's not listening to TV speakers any more. After one such session, he said his wife threw the stereo out when he wasn't around one day, claiming it never got used and so was just taking up space. My wife did something similar to me once. She was informed that the next time she'd be out too. It hasn't happened since. At least not with anything I really cared about


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

JoeESP9 said:


> I'm 62 years old and retired.
> Things are way too quiet on this site.
> 
> This post should wake some people up.


I'm glad you took my gentle tug at your chain in the spirit in which it was intended. 

The ban on wires did seem a little much. OTOH, I've seen some stereo setups on other sites where the room was dominated by equipment.

I guess I'm lucky. We live in a house where we can have a nice living room with no equipment or wires visible. I also have a den/office where I restore my 78's and other recordings using whatever equipment needed in plain view.


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## chadnliz (Feb 12, 2010)

In general it seems to me if a wife doesnt respect a mans hobby or passion its because there are bigger problems that lead her to either resent or plain old not give a you know what about the mans feelings. I do find some of those rare women that are just idiots who cant be pleased or reasoned with (usually they are only childs or daddy's girls) but for the most part when a woman gets what she wants and needs in all aspects of a marriage she supports or at minimum happily tolerates her nerdy husbands toys.
I know both sides of this from my friends, there are those who fight and even hide gear sneaking it in in hopes of not being caught and I know others who's wife will support anything the husband wants. The ones who hide and fight argue about MANY other things, the guy who doesnt has a fantastic relationship.
It is never NEVER just about the HT or stereo and if you think it is...........think again.:bigsmile:

We had to have lots of gear in living room for a few years till we got a home with dedicated mancave and at times she and I both didnt exactly get what we wanted but we always talked and worked it out, when we got to this place I was able to go to town, she loved it and still does down there....just didnt want it all in living room.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

There are some things I enjoy more than music or movies. Being with my wife is one of those things. Thankfully she approves of my hobby, but if I had to choose. My wife comes first.


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

lsiberian said:


> There are some things I enjoy more than music or movies. Being with my wife is one of those things. Thankfully she approves of my hobby, but if I had to choose. My wife comes first.


Well, said! Ditto! Maybe that is why she allows me to have my man cave and all my toys.  

Matt


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## chadnliz (Feb 12, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> There are some things I enjoy more than music or movies. Being with my wife is one of those things. Thankfully she approves of my hobby, but if I had to choose. My wife comes first.


I cant imagine the sad soul who wouldnt agree with this!


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. If I did, I apologize. I intended shaking things up a little. Hearing "no wires" sort of pushed my buttons. In my years I've seen and experienced many relationships. Invariably the "good" ones require compromise from both sides.

I know several upstanding hard working guys who have no space and don't feel comfortable at home. In all those instances the spouse has required the guy do all the compromising. These guys usually can't have a stereo. If they are allowed anything it's an iPod or maybe a Bose Wave Radio. The ones that are allowed to have a "real" stereo can't play it at any kind of reasonable volume at any time. Both of my ex-wives knew from the beginning how important good sound is to me. They both actually encouraged my passion by making sure my music and the gear had space. Having a man cave was something they encouraged me to have. I suppose they knew it would tend to keep me home.

Maybe this forum wasn't the right venue to bring this up but this is one of the places I hang out. The way it looks, the no wires rule was just another way of saying "you can't have the sound you want". Placing ridiculous restrictions on something is the same as saying no.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

You get to share your wifes closet? I don't even have enough room in the dresser due to ''W''. LOL


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

bambino said:


> You get to share your wifes closet? I don't even have enough room in the dresser due to ''W''. LOL


Who cares about drawer or closet space? You only need two of everything. One to wear and one to wash.:heehee: What kind of gear do you have?:bigsmile:


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

JoeESP9 said:


> I didn't mean to step on anyone's toes. If I did, I apologize. I intended shaking things up a little. Hearing "no wires" sort of pushed my buttons. In my years I've seen and experienced many relationships. Invariably the "good" ones require compromise from both sides.
> 
> I know several upstanding hard working guys who have no space and don't feel comfortable at home. In all those instances the spouse has required the guy do all the compromising. These guys usually can't have a stereo. If they are allowed anything it's an iPod or maybe a Bose Wave Radio. The ones that are allowed to have a "real" stereo can't play it at any kind of reasonable volume at any time. Both of my ex-wives knew from the beginning how important good sound is to me. They both actually encouraged my passion by making sure my music and the gear had space. Having a man cave was something they encouraged me to have. I suppose they knew it would tend to keep me home.
> 
> Maybe this forum wasn't the right venue to bring this up but this is one of the places I hang out. The way it looks, the no wires rule was just another way of saying "you can't have the sound you want". Placing ridiculous restrictions on something is the same as saying no.


Hey I understand where you are coming from. I think it's ridiculous, but they aren't my wives so it's not my business.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Oh! I did have one condition when i gutted and rebuilt our house and that was she could have what ever color paint, hang pictures where she wants, basically decorate however she wanted to except the back room, i get to have audio components in their place no questions asked and the furniture where i think it should go otherwise it's her room too just like the rest of the house is ours. It's worked out great.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

What can I say? I feel sorry for those guys.

Listening to music is a fundamental human right, isn't it? If not it should be, with a rider about really loud now and then.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

JoeESP9 said:


> Who cares about drawer or closet space? You only need two of everything. One to wear and one to wash.:heehee: What kind of gear do you have?:bigsmile:


I work and then change my work clothes. Oh, and then the church clothes. Oh, and then the goin out clothes. Oh, then everyday don't want to look like i just came from work clothes. Oh, and so on and so on.:coocoo:


Is that what you ment by gear or were you talking about my audio system? LOL


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Ah... so much to respond to... so little server space...


DougMac said:


> The ban on wires did seem a little much. OTOH, I've seen some stereo setups on other sites where the room was dominated by equipment.


I don't remember the exact post you refer to, though I did read it originally, but I have to agree, there's ALWAYS a way to hide/dress the wires so they're not seen, and that's probably the point I was trying to make with the "hiding behind the WAF" comment... there are times when the wife will say "no visible wires" and the guy says "I need wires but I don't want to do the work or have the knowledge to hide them." IMO, that's the guy's fault, not an unreasonable wife.


> I guess I'm lucky. We live in a house where we can have a nice living room with no equipment or wires visible. I also have a den/office where I restore my 78's and other recordings using whatever equipment needed in plain view.


Yes. I too have my own office which I may put a lock on the door soon  She knows it's my territory and she gets no say what goes on in there, other than to close the door if company is coming over. It happens to be the smallest bedroom in the house, but it works for me. That was a prerequisite to me agreeing to buy the house, as there's no garage and no basement for me to have a workshop or the like. 


lsiberian said:


> but if I had to choose. My wife comes first.


But if you think back to when you were dating, if she put down whatever obssession with this stuff you may have had at the time, don't you think the odds would be slimmer that you'd still be together now? I guess what I mean is, at least some of what brought my wife and I together in the first place was her appreciation/acceptance of that which is important to me... Now... if you developed a love of this stuff AFTER the fact, that's a whole other matter...


JoeESP9 said:


> I know several upstanding hard working guys who have no space and don't feel comfortable at home.


I've had that in my own marriage for a while. When we got married, I moved into her place. She tried real hard to make it "our" place. But in the end it was always "her" place that I was living in. Yes, I set up my HT stuff where I wanted it, and she accepted and learned to love it, (and yes, my kitchen stuff too... and my wine celllar... wait, sorry, it's "our" wine cellar... "my" wine...) ... Maybe my point is that sometimes the guy goes into these relationships WANTING to give up all control and the like... and "chooses" his spouse accordingly....


JoeESP9 said:


> Who cares about drawer or closet space? You only need two of everything. One to wear and one to wash.:heehee: What kind of gear do you have?:bigsmile:


First business trip I went on post-wedding... took my stuff out of my third of the medicine cabinet (shaving stuff etc)... got back 24hrs later and there was NO space ... and I mean zero ... to replace what I had taken out. And that's how the fight started...


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Maybe she wants you to stop shaving. You could start growing a beard and use lack of bathroom cabinet space for your shaving gear as the reason.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I've got the same problem greg, I'm gonna have to try the no shaving idea and start leaving clothes lying around everywhere then maybe i'll get some space.:hissyfit:


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

I don't get it either, how so many men seem to give up so much of themselves in a marriage; my feeling is on most things they don't care, and once that is seen enough times, their opinion is not considered at all.

Whilst I have never been married, I was in a long term defacto where this issue came up. I didn't care about room arrangements, colours, which restaurant we went to etc, so my response to most things was 'Sure honey'. However, there soon came to be an issue where I said 'no' (I don't recall what) and in the argument that ensued, I explained the above. She could have her way on most things because I didn't care and was happy for her to be happy. But when I did say no, I expected to be heard and my opinion considered, otherwise I was not being respected, and I could return the favour, which I knew she wouldn't like. Worked perfectly. Hifi gear was never an issue as she loved music and appreciated decent equipment.

The one time we did discuss marriage, I told her I would never give up riding motorcycles, and we'd always have a dog or three and they'd be indoors. She understood why. I would never have asked her to stop surfing, playing the piano or dancing.

I don't see how anyone can comment upon other people's relationships from the outside. Even the most overtly whipped man may be happy with the compromise for the relationship, companionship, kids, family, social networks or a host of other reasons which may or may not make sense to someone on the outside.

WRT to AV gear in a shared space, there are plenty of ways to compromise, such as neatly arranging/hiding cables, having your speakers on castors so they can be placed against the wall sometimes, and in the best acoustic position at the times when you have the ability to just sit and watch/listen. DIYers have an advantage here as they can design the gear to minimise compromise to the issues of say performance to aesthetic acceptance. Apart from speaker position or acoustic treatments, there is no worthwhile issue I can't see a work around being developed for. One of the two best systems I have ever heard is almost invisible.










Details here.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

A9X said:


> I don't get it either, how so many men seem to give up so much of themselves in a marriage; my feeling is on most things they don't care, and once that is seen enough times, their opinion is not considered at all.
> 
> Whilst I have never been married, I was in a long term defacto where this issue came up. I didn't care about room arrangements, colours, which restaurant we went to etc, so my response to most things was 'Sure honey'. However, there soon came to be an issue where I said 'no' (I don't recall what) and in the argument that ensued, I explained the above. She could have her way on most things because I didn't care and was happy for her to be happy. But when I did say no, I expected to be heard and my opinion considered, otherwise I was not being respected, and I could return the favour, which I knew she wouldn't like. Worked perfectly. Hifi gear was never an issue as she loved music and appreciated decent equipment.
> 
> ...


Mind tossing me a Banana after seeing that picture I want one. 

My wife gets the rest of the house and the furniture while I get the speakers and TV. She's better at finding deals on stuff than me.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

A9X said:


> I don't get it either, how so many men seem to give up so much of themselves in a marriage; my feeling is on most things they don't care, and once that is seen enough times, their opinion is not considered at all.
> 
> Whilst I have never been married, I was in a long term defacto where this issue came up. I didn't care about room arrangements, colours, which restaurant we went to etc, so my response to most things was 'Sure honey'. However, there soon came to be an issue where I said 'no' (I don't recall what) and in the argument that ensued, I explained the above. She could have her way on most things because I didn't care and was happy for her to be happy. But when I did say no, I expected to be heard and my opinion considered, otherwise I was not being respected, and I could return the favour, which I knew she wouldn't like. Worked perfectly. Hifi gear was never an issue as she loved music and appreciated decent equipment.
> 
> ...


I concur!:bigsmile: (i think thats how you spell it)


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## waldo563 (Apr 26, 2009)

Concerning WAF, it is a compromise and of course it helps to have a separate space which you can claim as your own to do with as you please. I don't mess with how my wife decorates the house (within reason) while I can do anything I want to my man cave (within reason). This seems to work pretty well for us but may not be feasible for everybody. And in the case of a shared space, I agree that how it's handled is nobody else's business.


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## SAY IT LOUD (Jun 24, 2008)

I dont understand when my mates say MY WIFE WONT LET ME! i laugh and say you are not married to your mother or are you? I buy what ever i want and my MRS does the same. Of course we have the same tastes and syles so it makes life easy. But if my wife said your not getting that! Then relationship over. In closing all aspects of furniture need to compliment each other including HT. A sucessful relationship is always discussing and working out a solution suited to both.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

JoeESP9 said:


> Maybe she wants you to stop shaving. You could start growing a beard and use lack of bathroom cabinet space for your shaving gear as the reason.


Have a goatee already. Tried to shave it off, but she prefers my face hidden 


bambino said:


> I've got the same problem greg, I'm gonna have to try the no shaving idea and start leaving clothes lying around everywhere then maybe i'll get some space.:hissyfit:


Then her clothes start showing up in my closet...


A9X said:


> I don't get it either, how so many men seem to give up so much of themselves in a marriage; my feeling is on most things they don't care, and once that is seen enough times, their opinion is not considered at all.


True, but one needs to be careful... I throw in an opinion every once in a while whether I care or not, sort of a placeholder...


> I don't see how anyone can comment upon other people's relationships from the outside. Even the most overtly whipped man may be happy with the compromise for the relationship, companionship, kids, family, social networks or a host of other reasons which may or may not make sense to someone on the outside.


Right on!


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## Home Theater Guy (Jul 18, 2009)

Just my take on the WAF issue...no one has to agree with me...

It seems to me a lot of people tend to make home theater a "guy" thing. You know, man caves, my wife hates all the gear in the living room, etc. I don't understand this. Women love home theater and movies just as much as guys do. But they also like to have things look good, and be easy to use. To me, having speakers everywhere and stacks of black boxes is not very attractive, and I don't blame anyone for not liking it.

If we make the effort to hide the wires, put the equipment in a closet, get some drapes or a roll-up screen, and get a single remote to clear out the coffee table, it can go miles toward making a place more beautiful and inviting. And doing so does not have to compromise the picture and sound. If we do it right, it can actually enhance it. All it takes is a little (OK, sometimes a lot) of creativity, but anyone can create a space that is both a livable part of the house and a great home theater. Then, everyone is happy.

I would advise getting the lady of the house involved in the design. Ask her what she would like to see, and then really find a way to implement it. Be open with each other and make the theater design a fun process. Coming up with a creative way to combine great performance with great looks can be both enjoyable and rewarding.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

*Good Advice*



Home Theater Guy said:


> I would advise getting the lady of the house involved in the design. Ask her what she would like to see, and then really find a way to implement it. Be open with each other and make the theater design a fun process. Coming up with a creative way to combine great performance with great looks can be both enjoyable and rewarding.


That's just what we did. She was the one who encouraged me to finish out the unused part of the basement. We worked together on general design, color schemes and furnishings. I valued her input and she came up with a number of great suggestions that has enhanced the home theater. The end result is far better because of the team effort.

We both love the home theater. It's "our" space. BTW, for all practical purposes, you can't see any wires. All the electronics are in a rack system built into the wall, with a storage area behind, where the wires are tucked out of sight.


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## Home Theater Guy (Jul 18, 2009)

*Re: Good Advice*

I'm happy everything worked out so well for you. I love it when everyone works together. The end result is always so much better.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Yep! Mine is pushing towards making a choice on a new subwoofer, or a new tv, either one, my choice, she just wants it made a little better...


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## Derry (Apr 10, 2010)

my dear wife has "sort of" been with me on my audio gear adjustments through our 48 years of marriage,, from the tube days with my Dynaco 70 build and first Fisher receiver to my present Marantz SR9600,, yes the TH room is sort of mannish but she picked out the carpet, room color, slate tile and leather furniture,, I must say she did very well, great comfort,, for that I get my big TV (63" plasma) and big speakers all over,,:T

since I have had and still have several hobbies as she does we go along with each others desires and purchases as long as the pocketbook can handle them,, seems to balance out very well,,

Derry


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

Home Theater Guy said:


> If we make the effort to hide the wires, put the equipment in a closet, get some drapes or a roll-up screen, and get a single remote to clear out the coffee table, it can go miles toward making a place more beautiful and inviting. And doing so does not have to compromise the picture and sound. If we do it right, it can actually enhance it. All it takes is a little (OK, sometimes a lot) of creativity, but anyone can create a space that is both a livable part of the house and a great home theater. Then, everyone is happy.


I agree, but I am also LOLing at the same time. I've suggested similar to other audio and HT enthusiasts and (almost) always get a list of excuses or 'potential' problems that kybosh it being done. For example, I suggested the use of a spare cupboard to one person to remove the gear from it's position between the speakers and make the SO happy and stop the domestic dispute about the gear's pre eminence in what was (also) their living room. Heat and airflow were issues raised, but could have been easily solved by an inline fan and some flexible ducting from a vent in the cupboard ceiling with the fan unit located two rooms away over the garage so completely inaudible. A simple, <$200 solution, installed by me in an hour or so, but it was still not acceptable for reasons that were never clearly articulated. Same with using remote control extenders so there would be no functionality issues with gear remotes. 

I reckon it was simply because he loved looking at all the gear stacked on racks between the speakers with the cables and other hardware all exposed and on display like a geek trophy.

My apartment living room is also my HT. As I live alone, I can do whatever I want with the room and aesthetics can be far down the list. But as I started to design all the gear and the system installation, I saw there were some easy ways to blend it in better. It will still look like a room full of speakers when it's done, but all the gear will be in a rack outside the room and later, I have ways of hiding most of the cabling (custom recessed skirting boards) as money becomes available to do it (integrated with other aesthetic changes to the room).


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