# Eq'ing option



## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I am looking at a few option for eq'ing my sub. Options are the Minidsp, the behringer feedback destroyer or just buying the inuke 1000dsp and using its functions. I have been reviewing the information on both the mini dsp and feedback destroyer for the past few weeks and have hit a stand still. I am looking for a non complicated way to measure and adjust. Let me know your thoughts for a simple setup to help on this.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I emailed minidsp yesterday to see all the components i need as far as hardware and plug ins. Not sure if this is the route i will be moving but at least they will give me a detailed list of items. Like i said i am looking to keep this as simple and straight forward as possible so any thoughts or guidance is appreciated.


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

I believe the minidsp can be used for lower frequencies than the behringer so it is more versatile.

-Bill


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Has anyone used the the dsp1 plate amp. http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/pwr-dsp1 has what I believe is the minidsp function in it but also is a plate amp that puts out 2400w x 1. Thoughts on that? Still have not received a response from minidsp from my inquiry a few days ago. Once I hear a response if I do I will follow back up on that item. The DSP1 is from the same company that does the minidsp. I will see if I get a response on that before I inquire on the DSP1 unless any one has experience with it. Thanks.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

On the inuke dsp. That was my dilemma. It has a 20hz HPF which causes a real problem. So I am passing on that item. I wish it went down a little further to at least 15hz and that would have been ideal for me. Still looking at options for a easy non over complicated way to eq sub.


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> On the inuke dsp. That was my dilemma. It has a 20hz HPF which causes a real problem. So I am passing on that item. I wish it went down a little further to at least 15hz and that would have been ideal for me. Still looking at options for a easy non over complicated way to eq sub.


 the HPF can't be turned off on the inuke? If not that's out of the running for me as well. What about a dsp antimode? Do they eq well?


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Anyone had luck with the velodyne sms-1 kit.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

To my knowledge the HPF on the inuke cannot be turned off that is why it is a no go on my end. Reading on the anti mode you are extremely limited on the tuning so I have ruled that out. Here is a quick link about some who have compared the SMS-1 and anti mode. 
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?4981-velodyne-sms-1-or-anti-mode-8033


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

So I guess right now my choices are the minidsp the dsp1(plate amp with dsp function) the feedback destroyer or the velodyne SMS-1. Thoughts?


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I may have eliminated the velodyne SMS-1 after reading a few more reviews. I have enclosed a link that has its limits at a 1/3 octave resolution which is stated to be to "crude" for in room correction. They are saying that need to be at least 1/12 octave. Anyone win experience please chime in


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/audio-measurements


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Yeah I meant anyone with experience on this please chime in


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

The plate amps from minidsp are really expensive! $999 is quite a bit. You could get a behringer ep4000 and minidsp for half that price. If price is a concern I would go that route. I know the minidsp is a bit of a pain to connect but the plug ins are really cool features. Otherwise for ease of connectibility the behringer ep4000 with a feedback destroyer pro would be around $600 total and easy to connect to each other. I may go that route myself.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

If I'm reading right on the ep4000 the lowest cutoff they have is 30hz? Can you turn that function off. If not the 1000 or 3000dsp would be the better option. I have a few plate amps that I can use currently so I don't really need the DSP1 but like the idea of the all inclusive unit. I have read the links here in the forum on the feedback destroyer and minidsp they both will work for me just looking for a simpler approach. I guess there really isn't one. So just have to weigh my options on the two items. Really not leaning one way or another. Looking for more of a nudge to get me moving. Was hoping that I would have had a response by now from from minidsp.


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> If I'm reading right on the ep4000 the lowest cutoff they have is 30hz? Can you turn that function off. If not the 1000 or 3000dsp would be the better option. I have a few plate amps that I can use currently so I don't really need the DSP1 but like the idea of the all inclusive unit. I have read the links here in the forum on the feedback destroyer and minidsp they both will work for me just looking for a simpler approach. I guess there really isn't one. So just have to weigh my options on the two items. Really not leaning one way or another. Looking for more of a nudge to get me moving. Was hoping that I would have had a response by now from from minidsp.


 the ep4000 HPF can be turned off completely. There are a lot of settings on the backside of the ep4000 that you can play with. I was under the impression that the inuke amps lowest HPF setting is 20 hz but that it could also be turned to off as well.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

With the inuke dsp it does not appear there is a function to turn off the HPF. I looked at it last year and that was the drawback I saw. What I may do depending if minidsp gets back to me in a timely manner is go with that option. What are you looking at with the minidsp as far as platform and plugins


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> With the inuke dsp it does not appear there is a function to turn off the HPF. I looked at it last year and that was the drawback I saw. What I may do depending if minidsp gets back to me in a timely manner is go with that option. What are you looking at with the minidsp as far as platform and plugins


 if I go minidsp route then it would be balanced 2x4 minidsp in a box with the stereo 2 way advanced with 2.1 and crossover plugin. Figured it would cover my subs well. My subs will be dual sealed SI HT 18D2 each in 6.5-7 cu ft boxes. With duals I heard its a bit more important to get eq below 20hz. That's what has swayed me from the inukes also but it does make for a nice all in one solution.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi i have experience with:

SMS - 1 = Has great versatility as well
Antimode Dual Core 2.0 = I use this for full range speakers, very good and versatile. I hear that the 8033 is very good, easy to use.
SVS ASEQ-1 = Uses Audessey this is very good for multiple seating
Velodyne Digital Drive Subs (which basically has the SMS - 1 built in without the servo control which i never use)

I still have all four, personally i like the *manual *part of SMS - 1 used with REW. REW is able to supply the SMS - 1 filters that you just have to enter in manually. REW finds the modes that cause bass problems and between the two produces a great sounding system. Has 5 presets movies / music. My room has modes at 20, 37, 40hz and this has been dealt with easily + some little EQ. It has 8 bands PEQ which is more than enough. Ok it is only 1/3 octave but with REW this is that is required. It has more functions. As far as inputs it has two but they are mono, which is the way subs should be setup anyway.
I wouldn't use the mic and *measuring* software, use REW. Using the SMS-1 requires more work but the results are great.

I haven't used the Antimode Dual Core for subs (no need too) but i sure it would do a great job. I have heard great reviews on the 8033.

The SVS also is good but i got better results with the SMS -1 and DDs.

Any questions that you would like to know about any of these let me know.

I haven't used any of the others.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

so with sms-1 you can integrate it with the REW. I have downloaded REW to review. How tedious was the set with the sms-1. An to clarify you would recommend using the REW software with the UMIK mic? Are you using the REW softare for the measurement and using the sms-1 for the adjustment. IS this the standard operation for this or does the sms-1 measuring software not very good. Also how long of a project was this from start to finish. Any help or insight is appreciated as this is the first time i will be trying to eq a project hence my statements about looking for non complicated


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Bstloukal1 said:


> Yeah I meant anyone with experience on this please chime in


OK. The Audioholics piece is in error or is misworded. The Q on the SMS-1 is adjustable to give at 1/12 octave filter. Is is only on the default auto mode that it runs at 1/3 octave. I strongly advice *not *using the auto mode.

_The default setting for q is 4.3, but it can be adjusted in 0.1 increments 
from 0.3 to 20.0. q defines how wide a section of the curve is affected by 
the equalizer channel. The default of 4.3 represents approximately 1/3 of 
an octave, while the minimum of 0.3 represents about 3.5 octaves and the 
maximum of 20 represents 1/12 of an octave_


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

thank you for the clarification on this. Then this is a good option for me at this time. out of my current options of the Behringer FBD the minidsp the sms-1 and the DSP1 plate amp which would be your recommendation. I was hoping to have some feedback by now from minidsp but nothing again. thanks again


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Bstloukal1 said:


> thank you for the clarification on this. Then this is a good option for me at this time. out of my current options of the Behringer FBD the minidsp the sms-1 and the DSP1 plate amp which would be your recommendation. I was hoping to have some feedback by now from minidsp but nothing again. thanks again


I know nothing of the Behringer or the DSP1 and I do not know which miniDSP you have in mind.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

here is the minidsp.
http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
they offer these plugins for it
http://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/minidsp-2x4-kit-box-platforms
This is the DSP1 which offers the same plug ins
http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/pwr-dsp1

i was looking to go for a non complicated way of working this project and incorperating the knowledge to others projects but from reviewing it looks a little in depth to get to were you are going. let me know if you get a chance to review these and any opinion you may have


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Bstloukal1 said:


> here is the minidsp.
> http://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4
> they offer these plugins for it
> http://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/minidsp-2x4-kit-box-platforms
> ...


Any of your options will work. Behringer is easiest. SMS-1 is pretty easy. miniDSP requires most effort including the need to use REW (or similar) to develop the EQ filters. Range of options and customization are inverse of that.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

> so with sms-1 you can integrate it with the REW.


Yes if you call it that.
Basically what you are doing is using the measuring software of REW and the PEQ and other good software settings of the SMS.



> How tedious was the set with the sms-1.


I can you send a REW file to play with if you like of my Digital Drive. 



> An to clarify you would recommend using the REW software with the UMIK mic?


Yes the UMIK-1 USB mic is an option also so is the Dayton UMM-6 USB mic. These are the main two that are used. One thing i would say is buy from Cross - Spectrum who calibrates to a high standard.

There are other options but takes a bit more to setup (only once though).

Do you like to keep things basic and portable, if yes probably go with the USB option.



> Are you using the REW softare for the measurement and using the sms-1 for the adjustment.


Basically yes, as above if you want me to send a file i am happy to do so. And then i can guide you easily to what i mean.



> IS this the standard operation for this or does the sms-1 measuring software not very good.


Not standard but people don't actually understand how good the whole SMS is, except for the measuring software. REW shows more info and the waterfall graph is a great part of REW software. The REW actually gives you the actual filter values to manually load into the SMS software, very easy. 
As Kal said don't even think of using the Auto EQ of the SMS.



> Also how long of a project was this from start to finish. Any help or insight is appreciated as this is the first time i will be trying to eq a project hence my statements about looking for non complicated


Without REW don't know.

With REW after getting the positioning of the sub/s and crossovers etc correct, about 15 minutes

Once you get the REW software setup and using the 5 presets, what i do with mine is have one reference and when you want to you can try different settings in the SMS, as i said above versatile.

You find that once you start to get use to REW you will look at other parts of your system and improve or just confirm things etc.

The forum on REW is great and these members help alot.

I think you get more control over a manual EQ than Auto, although the Antimode Dual Core has both.

Something that the SMS measuring software has that is good is that it measures in real time so very easy, fast and accurate enough to find the best position for your sub/s. This is the first you do, very important for any speaker, including subs.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Any of your options will work. Behringer is easiest. SMS-1 is pretty easy. miniDSP requires most effort including the need to use REW (or similar) to develop the EQ filters. Range of options and customization are inverse of that.


For ultimate simplicity using a receiver with Audyssey MultEQ32 or Anthem ARC will produce good sub eq results. Kal's warning about the inverse of easy still applies.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

a couple thing to note:
1-if i am using rew for measuring and the sms for adjustment the graph that would pop up on the sms would be rendered obsolete. I would make adjustments based on the graph from the rew reading. Can this be incorporated into the sms
2-Yes please send a file over for me to reivew as that would be a great piece of information 
3-keeping things simple was my starting point. the more i read and learn on this the less daunting it seems to become.
4-yes i am looking at upgrading my receiver and have been reviewing a few different items. I am leaning toward denon just because of pricing but then my question is what version of audyssey is recommended. I have found on the sight here a list of receivers that have the audyssey feature but there are differnet variation in most. Let me know what the best option would be. I am probably looking at used to save a few bucks on this. also will audyssey take care of these issues by themself? i would assume not that i would still need eq after the setup. 
5-is the minidsp and option? I thought is was at the beggining of this process and it still might be but 2 emails and a week later i still have not response from them on my inquiry so i think i am taking it off my list and will focus on using the rew with the sms-1


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Bstloukal1 said:


> a couple thing to note:
> 1-if i am using rew for measuring and the sms for adjustment the graph that would pop up on the sms would be rendered obsolete. I would make adjustments based on the graph from the rew reading. Can this be incorporated into the sms
> 2-Yes please send a file over for me to reivew as that would be a great piece of information
> 3-keeping things simple was my starting point. the more i read and learn on this the less daunting it seems to become.
> ...


1. Yes. The graph shows what the result is. The adjustments are made on the menus.
2. Pass.
3. Learning has that effect.
4. MultEQ* XT32* is what you want. If done properly, there should be no need for any other EQ unless you become pathologically obsessive. No one here is, of course.
5. I just did an EQ setup with their 10x10Hd which included bass management for 2 subs and, once I got the handle on it, it worked very well. The big problem, for me, is that it requires the redigitization of all the main channel signals.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

is the multeq xt32 an automatic calibration or is this a manual setup. I will review what is offered in the denon avr


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Bstloukal1 said:


> is the multeq xt32 an automatic calibration or is this a manual setup. I will review what is offered in the denon avr


It is an easy automatic setup. Your most complicated task is to move the mic to each of the seats. Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo are your vendors with the MultEQ32 option and great amplification.


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

The Behringer ep4000 has no dsp (that's what you will use the FBD for  ). It's just a power amp, you will need a fan modification to make quieter, but it's a great amp for subwoofers!!!! I own it myself.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

phreak said:


> It is an easy automatic setup. Your most complicated task is to move the mic to each of the seats. Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo are your vendors with the MultEQ32 option and great amplification.


FWIW, also Integra.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Kal Rubinson said:


> FWIW, also Integra.


Its worth a lot. My oversight, they have great gear. High on my desired list, but not as easy to find bargains. It's kinda like shopping for a vehicle. You go to a Cadillac dealer with hopes and aspirations, then get sidetracked by the big red sale sticker on the Buick. Take the Buick for a test drive, and you end up completely satisfied with buying the Onkyo. I mean Buick. What was I saying?


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I am reviewing some receivers now would I need multi eq xt32 or would multi eq xt work for the sub setup.


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> I am reviewing some receivers now would I need multi eq xt32 or would multi eq xt work for the sub setup.


 multi eq xt would work for a single sub or for that matter duals if they were connected to one sub out on your receiver with a "y" splitter and if the subs were either co located or at equidistant from the Main Listening Position. If you have two subs set up at different locations and they are not spaced evenly such as one being inside the left channel speaker and the other being on a side wall or x amount of ft further away than the other sub you would at least want xt32 with sub eq ht. That will set the distances for each sub properly but you may still need to do additional eq in case of issues with placement. However it's highly suggested you try to get your hands on XT32 anyways if budget allows. It has a lot more filters than XT that aid in better sound overall.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Ok good on that. So here is my plan of attack. I think i am going to track down an SMS-1. Will use that as the tuning instrument. Get a avr that has the xt32 and use REW for the measurements. Oye. Was looking for non complex way to go about this but may as well do it right. Let me know if any one sees a good deal on am avr that has the xt32. Think ill bit craigslist and take a look there first. As I get moving on this I'm sure I will need some help. The forum has some good areas to hit first so will start ready up there. Thanks and let me know if you come across any good deals on both the avr and the SMS-1. Thanks


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> Ok good on that. So here is my plan of attack. I think i am going to track down an SMS-1. Will use that as the tuning instrument. Get a avr that has the xt32 and use REW for the measurements. Oye. Was looking for non complex way to go about this but may as well do it right. Let me know if any one sees a good deal on am avr that has the xt32. Think ill bit craigslist and take a look there first. As I get moving on this I'm sure I will need some help. The forum has some good areas to hit first so will start ready up there. Thanks and let me know if you come across any good deals on both the avr and the SMS-1. Thanks


 look in classifieds here cause I believe there is an SMS-1 for sale right now.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Yeah I saw that yesterday and PM'd. He may have it sold already so I'm waiting to hear back


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

If you are intending to get a receiver with MultEQ32 anyway, you can make that your first step. That will eliminate the need for other DSP.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Attached is the mdat REW file
View attachment Test Sub EQ DD12.mdat

Play with the file, the filters are what i entered into the SMS-1 about 14 months ago, has changed since though.

As far as i know Audyssey multi 32 is what is in the SVS ASEQ-1, Kal will correct me if am wrong.



> a couple thing to note:
> 1-if i am using rew for measuring and the sms for adjustment the graph that would pop up on the sms would be rendered obsolete. I would make adjustments based on the graph from the rew reading. Can this be incorporated into the sms


Correct 
You have to enter the filter information (see file filters) Frequency, Q and Gain.



> 2-Yes please send a file over for me to reivew as that would be a great piece of information


See above for file.



> 3-keeping things simple was my starting point. the more i read and learn on this the less daunting it seems to become.


Good, it is.



> 4-yes i am looking at upgrading my receiver and have been reviewing a few different items. I am leaning toward denon just because of pricing but then my question is what version of audyssey is recommended. I have found on the sight here a list of receivers that have the audyssey feature but there are differnet variation in most. Let me know what the best option would be. I am probably looking at used to save a few bucks on this. also will audyssey take care of these issues by themself? i would assume not that i would still need eq after the setup.


Not familiar with Denon etc only Audyssey product i have used is SVS ASEQ-1.



> 5-is the minidsp and option? I thought is was at the beggining of this process and it still might be but 2 emails and a week later i still have not response from them on my inquiry so i think i am taking it off my list and will focus on using the rew with the sms-1


That is up to you, i can only recommend on my findings, never dealt or used MiniDSP.

SMS-1 software does deal in the Time Domain not like some people say. Actually in my setup the SMS-1 performance in the Time Domain was superior than the others (though i haven't used the Antimode Dual Core for subs (only mains).

I have been reading some forums and i agree that Auto EQs are great for people that don't want any hassle, but these have no user fine tuning.

As i have said i have used the others including SVS ASEQ-1 all were great but the one that has stuck out in performance for me is the SMS-1 (with REW).

I would go with the MiniDSP UMIK-1 mic from Cross - Spectrum that is calibrated , keep in mind that sometimes he has a huge influx of orders and might be out of stock, but not usually for long.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Phillips said:


> Attached is the mdat REW file
> View attachment 45052
> 
> 
> ...


1. It is unclear what is in the SVS or the SubEQ since they are sub-only EQs but they were contemporaneous with XT32's development. 

2. All filters that affect amplitude in the frequency domain inevitably have effects in the time domain (and vice versa) and that includes all PEQs and GEQs. It is merely a question of whether one sees those effects. For example, Meridian Room Compensation targets only time domain but inevitably affects frequency response. So, I would say that the improvements in time domain with the SMS-1 are either incidental (with SMS alone) or due to the filters derived from REW.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I want to say thanks for all the input. Every thing here has made me do much more research then just purchasing and plugging in. Has been a good learning experience thus far. I'm at the bottom of that curve right now on calibration and dsp'ing but hope to move up fast. I have purchased the SMS-1. It should be arriving at the end of next week. My next purchase will be the UMIK-1. On an receiver with the eqxt32. Well as far a finding something for a good price not sure if that will happen. It seems that version is only in the top of the line avr's that are out there and not sure if I want to drop that type of change on one. Will it really make that much of a difference from the EQXT to the EQXT32. And can you get the audyssey in a stand alone unit? I would assume not as I have not seen anything out there or on their site. But if anyone sees a deal on one that has the xt32 let me know if not I think I will be looking for the xt unless I can be swayed otherwise


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Bstloukal1 said:


> Will it really make that much of a difference from the EQXT to the EQXT32.
> And can you get the audyssey in a stand alone unit?


1. Depends. Hard to say without knowing how bad your acoustics are.
2. No. They have produced 2. First, the Audyssey Sound Equalizer which was a multichannel EQ but is outdated with early MultEQ XT. Second, the SubEQ which was a 2 channel subwoofer EQ with only slightly outdated firmware. (There was also a version of this produced by SVS.)

I have one of each gathering dust. Cutting edge Audssey today is MultEQ XT32 with the Pro kit.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> 1. Depends. Hard to say without knowing how bad your acoustics are.
> 2. No. They have produced 2. First, the Audyssey Sound Equalizer which was a multichannel EQ but is outdated with early MultEQ XT. Second, the SubEQ which was a 2 channel subwoofer EQ with only slightly outdated firmware. (There was also a version of this produced by SVS.)
> 
> I have one of each gathering dust. Cutting edge Audssey today is MultEQ XT32 with the Pro kit.


Matter of interest Kal what did you find the difference in the SubEQ and SVS ASEQ?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Phillips said:


> Matter of interest Kal what did you find the difference in the SubEQ and SVS ASEQ?


I cannot remember. You can look up what I wrote as well as I can and eliminate the middleman.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I was looking at some information and want to see what you think. Instead of dropping 2000$ on an new AVR for the xt32 what about using the svs as eq1 as a processors? Is see these pop up now an again for a lot less than $2000 for a new avr. Or is this system loaded with old technology that has become outdated? Any thoughts here.


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

You don't need to spend that much. The onkyo 818 can be had for $699 and a bit cheaper brand new and it has xt32 but not sub eq ht. The denon X4000 is $1299 and has both and a ton if features for its price point.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I will try to dig up the post or article on the subeq vs the svs aseq. I will see if it was in this forum or elsewhere


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Bstloukal1 said:


> I will try to dig up the post or article on the subeq vs the svs aseq. I will see if it was in this forum or elsewhere


Not here but here: http://forum.stereophile.com/category/music-round/


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

kal. Thanks a ton! It is greatly appreciated


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Bstloukal1 said:


> I was looking at some information and want to see what you think. Instead of dropping 2000$ on an new AVR for the xt32 what about using the svs as eq1 as a processors? Is see these pop up now an again for a lot less than $2000 for a new avr. Or is this system loaded with old technology that has become outdated? Any thoughts here.


Just to remind you that the SVS ASEQ-1 and Sub EQ is only for subs (bass), so it would replace the SMS-1 you were going to get.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Did some looking and have narrowed my avr search down to the denon 2313 and 3313. The marantz 7005. He onkyo 929. Price I can pick these items up range from the low price denon of $400 to the high price marantz at around $1300. The question I have is there really a discernible sound and over quality difference from the denon up to the marantz. I can pick all items up pretty local as the furthest I would have to hike would be about 100 miles. All pricing I have are for used items that have all components that were originally included at time of purchase. My thought is to go with the denon do to price and if I do not like I can alsways put the item in the kids game room but the. I am back again to the same position I am in now of tracking g down another.if you have a preference in models let me know.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Just a note I also found a few denon 2808ci's in my area for sale they have the xt. 3 of them on craigslist from $200. I'm sure I could work something better in one of those prices. Since I have the SMS-1 on the way would that then be a feaseable option. More if a rhetorical question but it wod give me a good idea of what the EQXT version does for me and at a very low price point. Worst case scenario. I pay 200 I could put it in the garage if it doesn't work out. Thoughts in this.


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> Did some looking and have narrowed my avr search down to the denon 2313 and 3313. The marantz 7005. He onkyo 929. Price I can pick these items up range from the low price denon of $400 to the high price marantz at around $1300. The question I have is there really a discernible sound and over quality difference from the denon up to the marantz. I can pick all items up pretty local as the furthest I would have to hike would be about 100 miles. All pricing I have are for used items that have all components that were originally included at time of purchase. My thought is to go with the denon do to price and if I do not like I can alsways put the item in the kids game room but the. I am back again to the same position I am in now of tracking g down another.if you have a preference in models let me know.


 none of those receivers have Audyssey Sub Eq ht which would be a must if running dual subs. Question, if your willing to pay $1300 for a used marantz, why not pay $1300 for a brand new Denon X4000 that has XT32 and Sub EQ HT?


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> Just a note I also found a few denon 2808ci's in my area for sale they have the xt. 3 of them on craigslist from $200. I'm sure I could work something better in one of those prices. Since I have the SMS-1 on the way would that then be a feaseable option. More if a rhetorical question but it wod give me a good idea of what the EQXT version does for me and at a very low price point. Worst case scenario. I pay 200 I could put it in the garage if it doesn't work out. Thoughts in this.


 So you already got the SMS-1? Ok that might change some things. I would still get a receiver with XT32 at least so of the ones you mention the Onkyo 929 has XT32 just not Sub EQ HT but since you have an SMS-1 not sure how much Sub EQ HT matters.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

I will search out the denon x4000. I am a patient man so I am sure I can find a deal on one. I have not come across one at a good price in my search. That was the first item I started to search as the price was not a crazy dollar figure. If anyone runs across a please reach out to me


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

The dilemma I see is that I have a purchase compulsion. I tend to buy things just to buy them sometimes as my basement is a perfect example. All the speaks, subs and the plethora of plate amps from all the projects I work on. I have a couple keiga 52100 plate amps a few speakerpower plate amps. My focus has been diy subs. They turn out nice but always want to change things up and end up giving them to friends. My new projects have been monitor speakers more involved but a lot of fun none the less. The newest is a diy from GR research bought the speakers 8 month ago and just starting on that project. Let me review the x4000 and see were that takes me


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Yeah I was able to pic the SMS-1 up from a member here on the forum. He thought he had a buyer but they backed out so I purchased it from him. It will be arriving next week


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Bstloukal1 said:


> Let me review the x4000 and see were that takes me


 http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Ultra-HD-Networking-Receiver-w/AirPlay/1.html here is a good one


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)




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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)




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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)




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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

This was my latest. It's a 12" with dual 12 PR's. The hard part was the finishing to get it to look like the dresser that it is next to. It was a barnwood dresser so took some thought how to get it to look a little rustic


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Ok here is were I am at in the avr. My decision will be between the denon 2113ci or the 2313ci. I think either one will handle what I am looking for and both have the XT. I feel like either can drive my system fine. A system which will also be changing over the next few months. I will be replacing my mains with the gr research's I am working on. The current mains I have are the paradigm studio 20's. The center is the paradigm center 3 and the surrounds are the older adp 470's. Let me know your thoughts if any on the receiver options. I found a couple at a reasonable price.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Made the purchase of the receiver. I ended up picking up 2. This was because well one I wanted a new one for the kids game room. Two I wanted to see the difference in the models and three I got a really good deal on one. The ones I picked up were the denon 3313ci and 2313ci. These should be arriving late this week or early next week. Yeah I ask myself why just not buy the x4000 or the 4520ci... I don't know I guess I just wanted to do a little side by side comparison on my end for the most part so I have an idea of what I really need in a system I think both units will suit me fine and should do everything I need and more. Really I am only using them for 1 room each and for the most part only movies That really is the extent of there use. Realistically they will probably only be on for maybe 6-10hrs a week so it's not like I'm running them 24/7. I think I'll be happy with the purchases but I look forward to seeing them side by side and running some comparisons.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

Now the question is how to do the comparison. I have the SMS-1 coming for the sub eq'ing and will use REW more charting. So now it's a matter of what to look for and compare.


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## Bstloukal1 (Nov 25, 2012)

ive been plugging away reading through the audyssey posts and maybe I will jump in over there, but from what i have read it appears that with the setup it has a tendency to "drop" the curve pretty fast on the low end freq ranges. from experience is this standard and will the sms-1 help to adjust this is this happens during my setup?


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## Mike0206 (Jul 14, 2013)

Nice build on the sub and hope your speakers turn out great. I believe the x4000 is essentially the replacement for the 3313 so I'm sure you'll be more then happy with your purchase. I done know anything about using an SMS-1 so hopefully someone will chins in ANC Xander your question.


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