# Equipment Ventilation



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

I am going to be having a home theater system installed soon. I've had a cabinet built to house the components, but will need to vent for the audio equipment in some way. I hate the thought of cutting into the sides or top of the cabinet. Is there ventilation devised to allow venting from the bottom of the cabinet? Or does anyone have another idea? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Attached is a photo of the cabinet. Thanks...


----------



## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

What does the inside look like? Can you have it away form the wall a bit? What equipment will be inside?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I don't know about trying to pull the heat from the bottom as heat rises. Have you thought about ventilating the cabinet from the rear? If you can give it a bit of room behind the cabinet from the wall you could integrate some quiet fans into the back of the cabinet and blow the hot air out. You might also want to put a vent on the bottom of the cabinet to allow fresh air to get in.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Heat is the number one killer of electronics and a cabinet like that is going to be tough on receivers and amps. Even with fans at the rear it's going to be tough to get enough airflow around all the equipment.


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

I'll take a photo of the interior tonight. Thanks!


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

The cabinet is attached to the wall and behind that wall is a bathroom sink. Looks like I may have to cut a hole in the left side and put a vent in the bottom. I don't have the equipment yet. The guy who is designing it is making some selections this week. I told him that I would take care of the venting as I didn't want his installers chopping up the cabinet.

I was also told that I only needed the vent for the audio equipment (video will go in the section to the right of the middle drawers). Is this true?

Thanks for the advice,

Kevin


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Video as in Bluray player and such? not so much an issue but things like an x-box or Playstation most definitely need good ventilation.
What ever you do make sure the fan has a good amount of CFM airflow and have it installed sucking the air out from as close to the top as possible.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Interesting that a cabinet like this would be attached to the wall.
What's the logic for that? 
Hard to tell from the picture but it does not look like it is deep enough for an AVR.
You will need 22-24" and that's not allowing much extra room.
Is this piece being repurposed for an equipment cabinet or was that the intention all along?


----------



## dwayne mifflin (Mar 26, 2009)

chashint said:


> Interesting that a cabinet like this would be attached to the wall. What's the logic for that? Hard to tell from the picture but it does not look like it is deep enough for an AVR. You will need 22-24" and that's not allowing much extra room. Is this piece being repurposed for an equipment cabinet or was that the intention all along?


They do have cooling for computers that use water or in a sense antifreeze  Per say. It's a bit extravagant but I'm just throwing out ideas.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

A water cooled CPU heatsink is very different than adding water cooling to an AVR, DVR, BD player, game console .... just sayin'


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

Below is a photo of the cabinet open. It has been attached to the wall as (other than two metal feet) it floats off the floor and has a heavy stainless steel countertop. The inside useable depth is about 19" and to increase space, the back has been left out of it. This also allows wires to run behind the middle drawer section. I am told there are plenty of components that will work in this depth. The equipment will be installed on roll-out shelves.

I am interested in the suggestion regarding the water cooling. Anyone know where I can read up on that? Or is it feasible?

Worst case, I will have to put a hole at the very top left side and open up the cabinet floor. It doesn't look like I am going to be able to avoid it. Unless there are other suggestions. Thanks for all the advice.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

What is the plan for speaker wires, HDMI, Ethernet, IR repeater?

If the bathroom sink is in a vanity you could go through the wall with a hole at the top and bottom with a fan in each for a fresh air source and exhaust.
There are many thru wall flanges that would work well at Home Depot.
I would put a air filter on the intake fan that is easily removable/cleanable.

Water cooling IMO is not a viable option.
It would require fairly significant equipment modification, so warranty is void.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Water cooling wont work as that sort of cooling requires the coil to be in direct contact with the surface of the electronics. Forced air is your only option.


----------



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

What equipment will be going in the cabinet if I may ask ? Some electronics do not run so hot as to need a lot of ventilation such as class D amps, cd player, most blu ray players so venting is not a huge issue as using all class A amps or something like that.

Having said that, ventilation is good and should be done. What about pulling the front doors off and making a couple doors with mesh centers instead of solid wood ? You could use pre-made perf metal in various types that would look good, allow for air movement and if the perf holes are small, it would also hide the equipment well.


----------



## hopper12 (Jan 16, 2014)

Does anyone have a good web site to find cooling fans ,or a kit.i too have ventilation issues especially with the ps3


----------



## OKLAGMCRUISER (Jan 20, 2014)

hopper12 said:


> Does anyone have a good web site to find cooling fans ,or a kit.i too have ventilation issues especially with the ps3


a quick ebay search found this as a result for you...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Orion-Fans-...mputer_Fan_Grills_Filters&hash=item4d0b339a11


----------



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

The fans on ebay would require voltage adjustments as well as mounting issues. I have a couple of these with a switch power adapter that in built in and lets me control the speed. These work great, move a good bit of air and can be placed directly on the equipment. The good bit is they run on wall outlet voltage. 

http://www.coolcomponents.com/Dual-Fan-Cooling-Unit_p_189.html#

The company also makes some wonderful cabinet vent/fan units.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

kmwhitt said:


> The inside useable depth is about 19" and to increase space, the back has been left out of it. This also allows wires to run behind the middle drawer section. I am told there are plenty of components that will work in this depth.


You will need to be very careful as to what receiver you get as 19" depth is not very deep. I have two receivers and both are more than 19" in depth and you have to factor that you still need another 2" or 3" behind for everything to plug in particularly HDMI cables that tend to stick out a fair bit.


----------



## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Tony brings up a very good point. Also fans won't do any good without a ventaliation point. It looks like you have a stainless steel top to the cabinet. I personally would cut a square/rectangle hole on both sides 75% and mount a perferated SS grill from someplace like:

http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/hrsteel2.phtml?page=perforated steel sheet&LimAcc=%20&aident=

the honeycomb design will look cool and vent the cabinet. If your items are Still over heating you can do the same to the front doors, or mount a fan on the bottom to blow up and accross the equipment which will then vent out the sides.


----------



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Andre said:


> Tony brings up a very good point. Also fans won't do any good without a ventilation point. It looks like you have a stainless steel top to the cabinet. I personally would cut a square/rectangle hole on both sides 75% and mount a perforated SS grill from someplace like:


I agree and I guess my point was mixed in my thread, I consider the fans great but you are spot on, they need a place to vent to. I thought making new doors would save the old ones but your idea makes great sense. As far as grill, i was referring to something down the street kind of but a specialty store may be better indeed.

http://www.homedepot.com/s/perforated+metal+sheets?NCNI-5


----------



## dwayne mifflin (Mar 26, 2009)

I've seen giant server racks with air con built into the rack. Again like I said earlier there's more than one way to skin a cat. Fans to move air are defiantly the simplistic way. I guess I just want you to look at the problem from every angle.


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

chashint said:


> What is the plan for speaker wires, HDMI, Ethernet, IR repeater?
> 
> If the bathroom sink is in a vanity you could go through the wall with a hole at the top and bottom with a fan in each for a fresh air source and exhaust.
> There are many thru wall flanges that would work well at Home Depot.
> ...


The speakers are all in-wall/in-ceiling and will be fished down from the attic in the wall behind the cabinet. The whole system is to be RF, so no repeater needed.

The bathroom sink is in a vanity, however, there are drawers that would block any vent, unless I vented towards the toilet side of the vanity which may be a bit odd.

I have pretty much accepted that the fan will have to go on the side of the cabinet. Do you think this will be adequate if I were to allow an intake hole in the bottom of the cabinet to bring in fresh air? Do you have an attractive (non-descript) fan model you could recommend? Thanks again for the help!


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

Savjac said:


> What equipment will be going in the cabinet if I may ask ? Some electronics do not run so hot as to need a lot of ventilation such as class D amps, cd player, most blu ray players so venting is not a huge issue as using all class A amps or something like that.
> 
> Having said that, ventilation is good and should be done. What about pulling the front doors off and making a couple doors with mesh centers instead of solid wood ? You could use pre-made perf metal in various types that would look good, allow for air movement and if the perf holes are small, it would also hide the equipment well.


I still don't know what equipment the designer is going to recommend. I have requested that he use good stuff, but not necessarily "the best". I am looking more for value as this is a weekend home.

Your suggestion regarding replacing the doors with mesh centers is a good one. Fortunately, we own a kitchen and bath cabinet shop, so doing so wouldn't be all that difficult, however, I'm not sure I am going to like the look - a lot went into planning this cabinet already - too bad we didn't think about the electronics. I appreciate your input!


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> You will need to be very careful as to what receiver you get as 19" depth is not very deep. I have two receivers and both are more than 19" in depth and you have to factor that you still need another 2" or 3" behind for everything to plug in particularly HDMI cables that tend to stick out a fair bit.


Thanks for the warning. I brought this up to the system designer and he didn't seem to have a problem with the depth. If only he had mentioned the venting before the cabinet was built.


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

Andre said:


> Tony brings up a very good point. Also fans won't do any good without a ventaliation point. It looks like you have a stainless steel top to the cabinet. I personally would cut a square/rectangle hole on both sides 75% and mount a perferated SS grill from someplace like:
> 
> http://www.metalsdepot.com/products/hrsteel2.phtml?page=perforated steel sheet&LimAcc=%20&aident=
> 
> the honeycomb design will look cool and vent the cabinet. If your items are Still over heating you can do the same to the front doors, or mount a fan on the bottom to blow up and accross the equipment which will then vent out the sides.


Thanks for the suggestion. I understand the need for cross ventilation, however, there are partitions on either side of the drawers in the middle. Do you really think it is necessary that the DVD player be vented as it is the only component to be installed in the right section? I guess I could alter the partitions to allow a steady stream of air current. The metal grills may look very cool. Where do I get such a fan that will blow up from the floor? Do you have any particular model in mind? Thanks.


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

Savjac said:


> The fans on ebay would require voltage adjustments as well as mounting issues. I have a couple of these with a switch power adapter that in built in and lets me control the speed. These work great, move a good bit of air and can be placed directly on the equipment. The good bit is they run on wall outlet voltage.
> 
> http://www.coolcomponents.com/Dual-Fan-Cooling-Unit_p_189.html#
> 
> The company also makes some wonderful cabinet vent/fan units.


That cooling unit is very nice. Do you think this would be adequate with a vent/grill placed in the side of the cabinet (upper 25%) and a hole in the bottom just under this equipment?


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

Here is the plan so far - please see sketch below. The side and bottom openings are 6" x 15". Does this look like it will work? What would you recommend to fill the openings? Cloth? Metal grill cover?

The members inside are a wooden rack/shelf that I will have built to support the cooling unit recommended in a previous post. Ideas?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The venting locations look good to me... I would still put them in every partition to allow the heat to rise and then flow out through the grills. Remember heat is the killer of electronics. I would try and keep it as cool as possible. :T

I would get some nice quiet fans and put some temp sensors inside the cabinet so that the fans would kick on when the temps hit a certain temperature.


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

ellisr63 said:


> The venting locations look good to me... I would still put them in every partition to allow the heat to rise and then flow out through the grills. Remember heat is the killer of electronics. I would try and keep it as cool as possible. :T
> 
> I would get some nice quiet fans and put some temp sensors inside the cabinet so that the fans would kick on when the temps hit a certain temperature.


Ron -

Thanks for the feedback. Why is it you feel it is necessary to vent the partitions too? The equipment will only go in the leftmost section. I plan one using this unit on the bottom shelf and stack the receiver on top of it: http://www.coolcomponents.com/Dual-Fan-Cooling-Unit_p_189.html#

The only component other than the cooling unit will be the receiver. The Dish TV hopper is in a closet elsewhere in the house, so the only component to cool would be the receiver as far as I know and the BluRay player will be housed in the far right section. There will be no video games. Do you feel this would work? Thanks again, Kevin


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

Perhaps a stupid question, but do they make mini-air conditioning units for electronics?


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Here is another thought.
Since this is going to be a permanent installation the wall can be cut open in the back of the cabinet.
This will give you an additional 4 inches of much needed depth where the AVR will go (depending on where the plumbing is located in the wall) and it will keep you from having to externally modify you cabinet.
The Sheetrock would be cut out to match the back opening and extend down below the bottom of the cabinet a couple of inches. The part on the bottom does not have to go all the way to the side of the cabinet so you will never see it.
A 2x4 will need to be installed across the top between the wall studs for fire break purposes.
A couple of quiet muffin fans can be installed to assure the air circulates.


----------



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

The fans I mentioned do a very good job and can be set to different speeds, and while an air conditioning unit for something like this may sound good, it would be overkill I think. The idea is not to keep the components "Cool" per se, it is to keep them from getting too hot. Electronics work best when warm and kept at a nice running temp that is why air movement works good. It might be nice if a lot of electronics are in there to put a fan on the receiver like the one I mentioned as well as one on the bottom to flow air from outside a bit. Not much more expensive at all. 

Here is a thought, since you know your dimensions and while cutting holes in things is good, it may not be the best for a permanent cabinet where walls are in the way. How about buying your equipment to fit the cabinet. Not all components are huge hulking masses of metal, there are some good quality components out there that are made to fit smaller areas, especially in way of depth and width. Is this something you could work with ??
If so we can look into recommending something like this from our fine sponsor.

Marantz


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

kmwhitt said:


> Perhaps a stupid question, but do they make mini-air conditioning units for electronics?


Not that would be cost effective. Im sure they make something small but it would not be quiet. They make Water coolers for drinking fountains that are small but the noise is not something you want to have in the same room.


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

Savjac said:


> The fans I mentioned do a very good job and can be set to different speeds, and while an air conditioning unit for something like this may sound good, it would be overkill I think. The idea is not to keep the components "Cool" per se, it is to keep them from getting too hot. Electronics work best when warm and kept at a nice running temp that is why air movement works good. It might be nice if a lot of electronics are in there to put a fan on the receiver like the one I mentioned as well as one on the bottom to flow air from outside a bit. Not much more expensive at all.
> 
> Here is a thought, since you know your dimensions and while cutting holes in things is good, it may not be the best for a permanent cabinet where walls are in the way. How about buying your equipment to fit the cabinet. Not all components are huge hulking masses of metal, there are some good quality components out there that are made to fit smaller areas, especially in way of depth and width. Is this something you could work with ??
> If so we can look into recommending something like this from our fine sponsor.
> ...


Jack, I appreciate the advice. The Home Theater Guy is already recommending Marantz. I agree with you, I don't think finding equipment to fit is going to be a problem. I am more concerned about the venting. I would prefer not to have to butcher the side of the cabinet. I could vent through the back wall into the bathroom vanity, but it is a very small cabinet with drawers - only 30" wide. Do you think what I have drawn a couple of posts back will work in this case? Thanks again for the help!


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

kmwhitt said:


> Ron -
> 
> Thanks for the feedback. Why is it you feel it is necessary to vent the partitions too? The equipment will only go in the leftmost section. I plan one using this unit on the bottom shelf and stack the receiver on top of it: http://www.coolcomponents.com/Dual-Fan-Cooling-Unit_p_189.html#
> 
> The only component other than the cooling unit will be the receiver. The Dish TV hopper is in a closet elsewhere in the house, so the only component to cool would be the receiver as far as I know and the BluRay player will be housed in the far right section. There will be no video games. Do you feel this would work? Thanks again, Kevin


I would do it to allow the heat to dissipate better... The more the heat spreads out the less of a problem you would have IMO. Plus if you have vents all the way across it should be able to cool it faster.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Have you though about just putting your equipment on top of the cabinet?


----------



## kmwhitt (Jan 25, 2014)

ellisr63 said:


> Have you though about just putting your equipment on top of the cabinet?


That would seem the simplest of solutions, however, I spent a lot of money to conceal the equipment by having the cabinet made. I told the system designer that I would take care of the venting. I may have to get him involved again. I appreciate all of the suggestions.

Kevin

I could put a hole in the right side too, I guess. There are drawers there, but I suppose it would help a bit.


----------



## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

kmwhitt said:


> Here is the plan so far - please see sketch below. The side and bottom openings are 6" x 15". Does this look like it will work? What would you recommend to fill the openings? Cloth? Metal grill cover?
> 
> The members inside are a wooden rack/shelf that I will have built to support the cooling unit recommended in a previous post. Ideas?


Since all you will have in the cabinet is an AVR and a Bluray this will be fine in my opinion. IF for some reason you do have heat issues you can add a fan under the cabinet blowing cool air in accros the components and out the top side vent. 

as for wire clearance, with the cabinet right up against the wall I take it all you speaker wires and the hopper cable are coming in throught the wall so you should be able to the AVR pretty close to the wall. When hooking the Bluray to the AVR to save space get a right angle HDMI cable.


----------



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

kmwhitt said:


> Jack, I appreciate the advice. The Home Theater Guy is already recommending Marantz. I agree with you, I don't think finding equipment to fit is going to be a problem. I am more concerned about the venting. I would prefer not to have to butcher the side of the cabinet. I could vent through the back wall into the bathroom vanity, but it is a very small cabinet with drawers - only 30" wide. Do you think what I have drawn a couple of posts back will work in this case? Thanks again for the help!


I do, unless you are putting a great deal of heat generating items or one item that runs hot, like a class A amp or something, I believe your drawing is sound. I understand the intent to keep the cabinet whole and do as little damage as possible to it or the back wall, that is too hard to fix if your life changes. There is no way that a moderate sized AVR is going to cause you issues, and to be honest, if you are running it, you may need to open the door a bit to use a remote control as they may not work through the wood. So if the door is open even a small amount and you have vents and one fan or two if you want one on the bottom, you will be good. Lastly, it is unlikely that you will run the system 24/7 and like most of us, you will play and shut it off. So the good way to hide and cool is just like above, vent, blow around a bit, slightly open door and there it is.


----------

