# Panasonic PT-AE4000U -- Is there such thing as to much or to little zoom?



## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Good evening everybody,

The Panasonic AE4000U PJ has a zoom function that ranges from 1.0x - 2.02x. As the zoom increases your closer to the screen and I assume a brighter picture. What other role does zoom play on the picture of the PJ? :scratch:

Is the picture equally good at any zoom range or should I be shooting for a certain sweet spot? According to Projector Central and my room dimensions I am looking at a zoom of 1.84. 










-NV


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## smurphy522 (Sep 21, 2010)

I think you would benefit greatly from a higher gain screen. However you will squeak by on high (normal) lamp power - even whan calibrated. That is one real big A$$ screen for that projector, too. I would go with high gain and a little smaller for best performance. Note that if you keep it on dynamic or the factory normal setting it will probably be OK. But once properly calibrated your likely to wish you had gone with a smaller screen. I have a 115" 2.35:1 screen which is a 1.1 gain. At 16.9:1 I am shooting onto basically a 92" screen and I am pleased with the brightness. 120" and further away is going to be much less bright (3 FL according to the calculator).

Keep in mind that you should have a totally light controlled room (can't see your hand in front of you face dark) to enjoy that brightness. With no windows in my HT I have that covered.

Again, if you must have that large a screen go with a higher gain white. If possible go a size or two smaller. Also you should consider a 2.35:1 aspect ratio. Remember that most newer movies are in that 2.35:1 ratio. As long as you can mount the projector's height below or within the screen area you can do the one button ratio change trick the projecotr does. It is slick and I love it!

Let us know how things work out. I actually have my projector set at low lamp power as I find in normal viewing mode (no lights on) it is bright enough while maximizing my lamp life.

keep us posted!


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

smurphy522 said:


> I think you would benefit greatly from a higher gain screen. However you will squeak by on high (normal) lamp power - even when calibrated. That is one real big screen for that projector, too. I would go with high gain and a little smaller for best performance. Note that if you keep it on dynamic or the factory normal setting it will probably be OK. But once properly calibrated your likely to wish you had gone with a smaller screen. I have a 115" 2.35:1 screen which is a 1.1 gain. At 16.9:1 I am shooting onto basically a 92" screen and I am pleased with the brightness. 120" and further away is going to be much less bright (3 FL according to the calculator).


Thank you very much for the lengthy reply!!!!

I am putting in a AT screen so I can place my speakers behind the screen, the one I am looking at is a 1.0 gain. I understand some AT screens do give you a loss. Its a 105" wide screen, is that big for a HT room? I was also thinking of a 100" screen but can't remember what the diagonal on that was.



> Keep in mind that you should have a totally light controlled room (can't see your hand in front of you face dark) to enjoy that brightness. With no windows in my HT I have that covered.


This is going in a dedicated HT room where there are no windows so I can control the light. I do have some sketchup drawings if you want to see them. I am not sure what FL means other than some rating of light. The Panny PJ it self does not have many Lumen's but it sure is a nice unit!



> Again, if you must have that large a screen go with a higher gain white. If possible go a size or two smaller. Also you should consider a 2.35:1 aspect ratio. Remember that most newer movies are in that 2.35:1 ratio. As long as you can mount the projector's height below or within the screen area you can do the one button ratio change trick the projector does. It is slick and I love it!


I was going to mask out for the 2.35, somebody suggested to get the 16:9 and mask that way because of my speakers being behind the screen. So your running the Panny?? Pretty smooth? Do you mask between the two sizes?? or does it look good going directly from 2.35:1 => 16:9?



> Let us know how things work out. I actually have my projector set at low lamp power as I find in normal viewing mode (no lights on) it is bright enough while maximizing my lamp life.
> keep us posted!


I will let you know how things work out, I just need to figure out distances from main screen fairly quickly as I need to get some stuff wired in. I'm doing a full house build and don't want to keep my builder to slowed up by me.


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## smurphy522 (Sep 21, 2010)

To start off. Yes, I love the Panasonic, however it is my 1st so I have nothing to compare it to, that has been in my HT room.

I am no expert on screens or projectors - just passing on things I read and learned during my research and install.

I would look over at Projector Reviews for more information on the Panasonic. Unfortunately Art does not cover the 2.35 feature so much as he does the rest of the projector. He is more of an "old school guy" and considers this feature a bit of a gimmick, I think. I love the feature and use it ~1/2 the time. I would use it more if we watched "my movies" more but my 6 yr old son gets as much screen time, if not more, then me. If you are going to mask to 2.35 from 16.9 then I guess you are planning on viewing more 16.9 (1.85, 1.78, Etc.) material than 2.35 (2.40) material. I planned on the opposite. Now if you are going with lots of gaming 16.9 is the logical choice. However do some research as to what movies you are more likely to watch, a good source is HD Digest. I also have assumed your source will be a Blu-Ray player, if you stated otherwise somewhere else please forgive my ignorance.

Note too that 2.35 HT set-ups tended to be a real expensive option with lenses and sleds costing more than you or I probably budgeted for the complete HT room (or at least the video portion of it). This Panasonic does it pretty well, IMO. I honestly don't notice a loss of detail when viewing (since the Panasonic zooms to make up the "masking effect" in the 2.35 mode). I think it is something like a loss of 30% of the pixels. I am a pretty detail oriented guy too.

If your walls are painted a dark color then I would try it without the masking. Spend the $ on a better screen instead. Once you start watching a movie, 5 minutes into it you forget the spill over of "blackness" (black bars). It blends in well to my dark brown walls at least. Also since I have a few inches of frame covered in black felt there is no reflection immediately at the border of the screen. If I turn the light up in the room then you notice the spill over but honestly under "normal" viewing conditions (lights off or only slightly dimmed on) you don't notice much of what the mask would be covering up. Not to say I would love to have a masking system but for my real world viewing it is not high on my priority. I will spend it upgrading my sound treatment or increasing my Blu-Ray collection. This may be a totally opposite thing though if you have a 16.9 screen and have black bars on the top/bottom. I read somewhere that human perception is more keen to upper and lower visual deviations as opposed to those on the sides. In other words: our peripheral vision is less acute. At least I don't notice the side bars so much when viewing 16.9 material on my 2.35 screen!

Most Important:
Either way you go (screen wise) make sure you plan for the proper height of the projector. It has special considerations (restrictions) when using it with the dual viewing ratio feature: see link here. Look at page 5 for the tables for mounting limitations.

Projector Central also had a good review of the projector here.

If you have not gotten the HDMI cable yet here is a link to a good quality cable. I got this 35' and have no issues coming out of my receiver to the projector. It is a thick cable and you definitely want to get that run in the walls before they are closed up. A word of advice would be to have a control cable or two run (for 12v triggers) for masking or other controls. Still another option (highly suggested) would be to have PVC pipe (4") run as conduit for the wiring. That way you can upgrade the cable(s) if needed. I mean when it is needed (not if). I did not have that option as my HT room was complete when I got the house, I'm lucky I got the HT room. For 4+ years it made a great walk in storage space.


My wife complained a few times when she would hear about the price of what I was getting. However the 1st time she watched a movie she couldn't believe it turned out so good. Take a look at my HT room here. When ever there are guests over she like to show it off as much as I do!


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

I may have missed something here but if PJCentrals calculator says you are getting 15fL at your mounted distance, why the need for a higher gain screen? 15fL is at the top end for recommended output in a home theater - 12-14fL being the norm. Just looking at the numbers from Art and PJCentral, the calculator looks correct to me. :huh:

FYI - I hit my screen with ~15fL with a .9 gain screen and the image is superb. And I do 90% of my viewing with ambient lights on.


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## smurphy522 (Sep 21, 2010)

Well yes, 4U2NVME will be in the acceptable "Norm" range. However if he goes with a higher gain screen then he can run in Econo mode and get a longer life on the lamp. And he can have better performance when viewing with the lights on, if that is needed. Maybe some would disagree but you can always be on the higher side and go with a lower brightness setting. However it is rather difficult to coax more light output of the PJ when your maxed out.

The most important thing to note is that the setting which the calculator is based on is the Panasonic factory set "Norm". Not once it is properly calibrated! If you read Art F's review you will notice that once the PT AE4000 is calibrated (using Color 1) it is much lower in light output (~50% less!) than the calculator is set at.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

smurphy522 said:


> The most important thing to note is that the setting which the calculator is based on is the Panasonic factory set "Norm". Not once it is properly calibrated! If you read Art F's review you will notice that once the PT AE4000 is calibrated (using Color 1) it is much lower in light output (~50% less!) than the calculator is set at.


If you take the lumens that Art ends up with, 430, and apply those to a 120" screen, you get the same results.

430 divided by 47.94075 screen area (4.917 X 9.75) = 8.96404

Which is what PJCentral has listed as the fL (9) for projector placement at 15' 8". So it seems the two are simpatico. The part I forget about is that PJCentral knocks 25% off the bulb for their calculation.

From wbassett's post in the screen forum:



Projector Central said:


> Our calculator pre-ages the lamp by 25% before it does its calculations. We do this so that people do not setup their projectors at maximum lamp performance, but rather halfway through the lamp life. This ensures a quality viewing experience throughout the life of the lamp. Therefore, you can expect our fL to be 25% lower than you would calculate with a new lamp.
> 
> We also assume a projector has an ANSI lumen rating calibrated for presentations (9000+K) unless the manufacturer states that it is calibrated at a different color temperature, such as 6500K. This means that if you take a projector that is calibrated for presentations and select Video/Movies or Games as your Primary Use, we will automatically reduce the lumen output of the projector based on the new color temperature that is required for video.
> 
> Dave


So realistically, that very well could have been normal mode in their calculation. Or it could have been Color 1. :huh:

All this being said, it's nice to have your input as you do own an AE4000. Therefore, if I were 4U2NVME, I'd heed your advice as well. :T


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

smurphy522 said:


> To start off. Yes, I love the Panasonic, however it is my 1st so I have nothing to compare it to, that has been in my HT room.
> 
> I am no expert on screens or projectors - just passing on things I read and learned during my research and install.


Getting first hand knowledge is always the best, I have done a fair bit of reading, some I understood, some I did not, but its always different once its installed in your place or somebody else's, and I appreciate your responses!



> I would look over at Projector Reviews for more information on the Panasonic. Unfortunately Art does not cover the 2.35 feature so much as he does the rest of the projector. He is more of an "old school guy" and considers this feature a bit of a gimmick, I think. I love the feature and use it ~1/2 the time. I would use it more if we watched "my movies" more but my 6 yr old son gets as much screen time, if not more, then me. If you are going to mask to 2.35 from 16.9 then I guess you are planning on viewing more 16.9 (1.85, 1.78, Etc.) material than 2.35 (2.40) material. I planned on the opposite. Now if you are going with lots of gaming 16.9 is the logical choice. However do some research as to what movies you are more likely to watch, a good source is HD Digest. I also have assumed your source will be a Blu-Ray player, if you stated otherwise somewhere else please forgive my ignorance.


What I am thinking is that I want my HT screen to shrink up and down not left to right when I resize, does that make sense? I like the feeling of a wide picture, so If I play for 16:9 my screen should mainly shrink right to left when I resize to 2.35:1 or am I backwards?



> This may be a totally opposite thing though if you have a 16.9 screen and have black bars on the top/bottom. I read somewhere that human perception is more keen to upper and lower visual deviations as opposed to those on the sides. In other words: our peripheral vision is less acute. At least I don't notice the side bars so much when viewing 16.9 material on my 2.35 screen!


Ok, Ok, maybe your saying here what I mean up above onder: maybe I should go a 2.35 screen. I'll post a few sketch up drawings of what I'm doing below. I will go and read or re-read in some cases those reviews you posted thanks!




> If you have not gotten the HDMI cable yet here is a link to a good quality cable. I got this 35' and have no issues coming out of my receiver to the projector. It is a thick cable and you definitely want to get that run in the walls before they are closed up.


I LOVE MONOPRICE, I have about $1400.00 of cables, network, mounting hardware and wall plugs from them. It also includes a few longer HDMI cables, I hope its great stuff, saved me a bundle if it is. I am wiring up my whole house for sound as well as my movie room. Plus a ton of data, coax outlets and the such to each room.



> A word of advice would be to have a control cable or two run (for 12v triggers) for masking or other controls.


I did not know I could run 12V triggers off of the PJ, good to know, guess I was not thinking of automatic curtains or masking.... more money to spend later, my wife would like you less if she knew 




> Still another option (highly suggested) would be to have PVC pipe (4") run as conduit for the wiring. That way you can upgrade the cable(s) if needed. I mean when it is needed (not if). I did not have that option as my HT room was complete when I got the house, I'm lucky I got the HT room. For 4+ years it made a great walk in storage space.


I will be running conduit for sure, my main wire will just be put in w/o conduit, and then run some smurf tube around the HT room and to each of the TV's.



> My wife complained a few times when she would hear about the price of what I was getting. However the 1st time she watched a movie she couldn't believe it turned out so good. Take a look at my HT room here. When ever there are guests over she like to show it off as much as I do!


Ya mine is complaining to, she says she does not think she will use the room much. We will see, I'm hoping for it to both sound better and have a better picture than a movie theater. Would be nice to not have to pay 40 or more for a night out at a movie. Doubt I'll ever recoup it, but then again this is not the reason I'm building it.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

I am getting a AT screen, I have not seen many which have been higher gains. a 105" inch screen is that really a large screen, am I falling into the bigger is better? When I sit at a movie theater I like to sit 1/3 to 1/2 up. I don't like sitting in the front rows, but I don't like the back either. I like for my vision to be filled by the movie and don't mind moving my head around a little, I just don't want a 2 hour work out on my neck muscles if I'm watching something that has allot of action  I think I can mount closer, I just have to adjust the zoom and I'm back to the original question which I don't think was answered.

*With zoom on this PJ, how is picture quality affected. Is it the same if the zoom is 1.0 or 2.0? What range should i be shooting for, or do I want the brightest light I can get and move toward one or the other edge of the zooming ranges on this PJ to get that?*

:scratch: -NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Since this is more about the PJ and how to best set it up, I will link you to my other forum that I will post up my new 3D pics. Still need to figure out speaker angles and placements. 

*Build Link*


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

4U2NVME said:


> *With zoom on this PJ, how is picture quality affected. Is it the same if the zoom is 1.0 or 2.0? What range should i be shooting for, or do I want the brightest light I can get and move toward one or the other edge of the zooming ranges on this PJ to get that?*
> 
> :scratch: -NV


Unless you are at one extreme or the other, zoom has no effect upon image quality.


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

If you look at the footnote under the throw distance table relating to using the 2.35 zoom feature, it states "The values of L shown above vary due to the charactersitics of the zoom lens. Images may slightly distort due to the characteristics of the zoom lens when the zoom lens is set to the minumum throw distance" With that in mind, it might be advisable to move the projector back a little and use the lower end of the zoom scale. The downside to that is that it results in a dimmer picture.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

hddummy said:


> If you look at the footnote under the throw distance table relating to using the 2.35 zoom feature, it states "The values of L shown above vary due to the charactersitics of the zoom lens. Images may slightly distort due to the characteristics of the zoom lens when the zoom lens is set to the minumum throw distance" With that in mind, it might be advisable to move the projector back a little and use the lower end of the zoom scale. The downside to that is that it results in a dimmer picture.


Is this in the manual? I don't see it on the PJCentral page. :scratch: The minimum would be 2.0 and with the projector at 13' his zoom is at 1.84 or 84%. Most projectors start to distort in the final 10%. :T


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

smurphy522 said:


> Most Important:
> Either way you go (screen wise) make sure you plan for the proper height of the projector. It has special considerations (restrictions) when using it with the dual viewing ratio feature: see link here. Look at page 5 for the tables for mounting limitations.


It is in the link provided here by smurphy


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

I could and do the unthinkable and shrink the size of my HT screen.... Not sure if I like that idea.... Problem is I need to get the eletrical hung and build a bracket/base for my PJ to hang from... its looking anywhere from 12.5 - 13.5 is the trick. I could build in that much leway so I could move/mount it over that area...


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

If you are not 100% sure of the throw distance you want to use, I would suggest just leaving a conduit running well past possible range. Build mounting supports and make sure there is a electrical run going through there too. When you decide where it needs to be, cut holes in your drywall for your signal and power boxes and cut the conduit right there through the drywall hole.

Also, how high are you planning on putting your screen. If this projector needs to be located no higher than the top of the screen and it ends up directly above your front row, you might have a headroom problem. Just thinking outloud.....


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## smurphy522 (Sep 21, 2010)

Totally agree w/Matt about the height. Think about the Ht of the screen 1st. The Ht of the PJ will then basically be dictated by that.

Similarly:
I would suggest that you decide what features are important to you for a PJ (based on main usage). If it is movies (in 16.9) you'll watch mostly, then an Uber bright unit may not be needed and you can do something even cheaper than the Panny. The Panny is the way to go for budget 2.35 viewing, IMHO. If you will watch more sports than movies then a brighter PJ might be considered given you will want to have the lights on a little.

Once the PJ is decided then comes the screen type. Also depending on the PJ chosen will somewhat dictate the screen size and of course PJ mounting location. The Epsons and Panny have some of the best flexibility for mounting locations via their vast zoom and lens shift capabilities.

I'm sure you have already given some thought to all of the above considering where you are at now. Just thought I would mention them though. I too had a list of considerations but even after I had narrowed them down I sometimes caught myself thinking about sizes and options that were out of that scope. Probably just human nature?


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

I may be speaking ahead of myself...i'm only half way through your main build thread. I think i read that you might be considering putting the PJ in a rack at the back of the room, in which case headroom would not be an issue. What will be an issue though....at least for me.... if the PJ is too low, then head shadows from occupants could be an issue. Also, I love to play Guitar Hero, so I want to be able to stand up in front of my seating and still not cast a shadow.


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