# Subs for new theater, two (s)PB2000s or one ultra?



## rprice54 (May 26, 2012)

We are moving, part of the deal was the buyer wanted the HT setup, which was not a surprise. So now I get to rebuild my system. I had an Axiom M60 7.2 system with an EP500. I know a lot of folks here are Axiom haters, so we can get that over with. I was very happy with the EP500 in my 16x18 room, but the room opened In the back to another area, as well as open stairs, and I had a bad node right at 60hz, so I was always lacking some of that punch from music. The thing rattled our house otherwise. Deep bass was awesome. It would wake the kids up from two floors away. 

But I also know several people feel the axioms are overpriced. After suffering from a bad room effect, I'm thinking about two subs for the next setup. For about the same price as another ep500 (which is now sealed, I can't find any third party info/reviews yet) I could get a SVS sb13 ultra, or two sb2000s, or two pb2000s. The pb ultra is outta reach financially. 

The new room should be much better acoustically. 12x18x8. Totally enclosed. Smaller, but this will be a dedicated theater. Last room was a media/family room. 

I'm sticking with another Axiom M60 setup for my other speakers. I've been 110% thrilled with my other axiom stuff. New AVR as well, it'll be one with sub correction. Don't know which one yet. Waiting to see 2014 stuff come out. 

I've looked at other subs as well- and we can go there. But I guess the first question is one higher end sub or two midrange subs for this space.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

In the end it depends on how deep you want the sub to extend. You can have a room full of sb2000's and it will be very smooth down to about 18hz or you can get an sb13u and have deep bass down to well below 15hz and if placed well will out preform two sb2000 in a heartbeat.


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## hyghwayman (Jan 15, 2008)

I concur with Tony, when properly placed the SB13-Ultra is a beast.


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## Aundudel25 (Dec 13, 2013)

If your willing to build DIY is the best bang for the buck. You could build 2 sealed 18" subs with your budget. 

But between your choices i would go with one of the sealed SVS subs since the axiom ep500 was sealed as well and it sounds like you listen to music in your room as well as movies.


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

Get two subs and set them up to do some mode cancelling.


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## A/V (Feb 5, 2014)

Are you willing to build your own subs? Best bang for buck for sure. 

If not, I personally have a PB2000 and it is a fantastic sub. Deep bass music tracks come over very powerfully, and room filling. I haven't bottomed the driver out at all, however, the limiter definitely kicks in when watching WOTW emergence scene, and Tron Legacy ship landing scene. If you had two of these and you didn't expect to listen at earth-shattering volumes, then you will be very happy I am sure.


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## rprice54 (May 26, 2012)

I don't mind going DIY, but I figure a company that's invested in R&D and taken the time to dial in their driver/amp/enclosure and DSP would get me better results. The ep500 I have now is ported. It certainly shook the house. The new ones are sealed. And I can't find any info. The website still has photos of the old and new subs intermixed, and the same old description- there's really no info on the sealed ep500, which concerns me. 

Having dealt with a nasty room node I'm leaning towards two, but you guys think one ultra would be that much better? This is a <2000 cubic foot room. I spoke with someone at SVS, he felt like I wouldn't even begin to use all the ultra in that room. He suggested one PB2000 or two PB1000's. Never expected them to steer me towards a cheaper option, although maybe the margins are similar


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## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

Go with duals...


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Trust me the difference between a sub that can go down to well below 15Hz and just 18hz s a very noticeable difference.


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## Sabby (Nov 10, 2008)

I would think the two subs would do the job better to provide even bass across the room. Is there really that much content in movies on a continuous basis that is below 18hz that you will be missing much? An uneven response will be more of a concern in my view from the single sub.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

In that size room I cannot imagine any of the options having an issue of achieving enough SPL with a single unit.
You have to decide if the guaranteed lower frequency extension of the higher model sub is more desirable than the potential smoother response of two lower model subs.
Look at the SVS site, it seems like they have an upgrade path in addition to the in home trial period.
You could start with a single midgrade sub to see if the room has issues two subs could address and depending on your findings add a second, upgrade to the ultra, or stick with the single original.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I've recently added a second sub to my setup and can vouch for the added overall improvement. While I do think it sounded good with the one adding another took it to another level. Much smoother sounding and fuller with less nulls and dead spots. SVS offers an excellent trade up policy if you decide you want more and I'd also check their outlet specials.


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## exlabdriver (Mar 8, 2014)

rprice:

There is a refurbished EP500V3 that would match your model with 30 Day Trial / 2 Year Warranty in Axiom's 'Deals' 'Refurb Store' at tremendous savings that might fit your needs:

http://www.axiomaudio.com/erp/refurb-store/176

TAM


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Lots of good solid advice. I personally would be drawn to a single ultra with the hopes of another someday. If you could get it dialed, it will deliver. (Disclosure: I'm not always practical!) For the OP though, I think a pair of PB2k's would do the job admirably. Fwiw, SVS still shows NSD cylinders at $749. (Disclosure 2: I am a fan of cylinder subs). However SVS has made the sledge/2000 combo almost indestructible. In short, I think an ultra will knock you off the couch, but take more to setup right. 2 PB2k's will deliver a more balanced experience.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

I have a 16x 14x 8 room dedicated and use two matching SVS subs. I would go with dual subs.


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## rprice54 (May 26, 2012)

The 'Tim the Toolman' in me wants to go with the Ultra (more power, argh!!!). I bet with time, placement, EQ, etc I could get it dialed in pretty sweet, but everything I read about compensating for room problems points to multiple subs. It's a small room, much smaller than the room my EP500 used to bring down. If SVS says one PB2000 is enough, two should be 'gracious plenty' as they say in the south.

Now I gotta figure out how crazy I want to get with room treatments...


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

Don't be concerned with not getting enough extension....the PB2000 will dig plenty deep in your room....15-16 Hz easily, and that covers what matters. Dual PB2000's will be close in output to a single Ultra but as mentioned by several, you will get a much better response. Filling a 15 dB null by having duals = much higher overall output than one sub with a huge null. 

Although your mileage could very likely vary, here is a PB2000 in my room(you will find a null is common with single sub setups). Next image is what duals subs did for me: (they say a picture is worth a 1,000 words..and by the way...all single subs I have had resulted in the same null in my room)


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Wow bear, that's nice. So far my only way yo rew


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

willis7469 said:


> Wow bear, that's nice. So far my only way yo rew


to REW, has been hand made 50' cables strung to my bedroom where my PC is. I'm also using my RS spl meter for a mic. This is not ideal! Still better than manually filling in boxes on graph paper! Trying to finance a minidsp/umik. ...know anyone who wants a brand new BFD?lol u have a umik don't you?


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## TomC1315 (Mar 18, 2014)

SVS PC13ultra @ $1,499 (outlet special)

SVS PC12plus @ $1,049 (outlet special)

as of 6-22-14

:sn:


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

willis7469 said:


> Wow bear, that's nice. So far my only way yo rew





willis7469 said:


> to REW, has been hand made 50' cables strung to my bedroom where my PC is. I'm also using my RS spl meter for a mic. This is not ideal! Still better than manually filling in boxes on graph paper! Trying to finance a minidsp/umik. ...know anyone who wants a brand new BFD?lol u have a umik don't you?


Yes I have a Umik-1 and use a miniDSP for eq and to apply the housecurve you see in my graph. You should not have to finance those, its like $210 for everything....mic, DSP, software, and shipping. One of the best upgrades you can get imo once you have a decent sub or subs. Not quite as beneficial if you have a SubEQ HT receiver, but my $200 AVR combined with the $100 miniDSP makes for a lot of bang for the buck. I just can't wait to get my surrounds.(3.1 currently  )


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Bear123 said:


> Yes I have a Umik-1 and use a miniDSP for eq and to apply the housecurve you see in my graph. You should not have to finance those, its like $210 for everything....mic, DSP, software, and shipping. One of the best upgrades you can get imo once you have a decent sub or subs. Not quite as beneficial if you have a SubEQ HT receiver, but my $200 AVR combined with the $100 miniDSP makes for a lot of bang for the buck. I just can't wait to get my surrounds.(3.1 currently  )


Yeah, 200 bucks is a bargain when you think about the return on investment. Plus it's plug n play with rew just makes it all the better. When I say "finance", I mean I have to re-eBay some things just to keep things balanced a little better. That way it's like I'm not spending at all! 
Btw, didn't you end up with a second PB? Where's your surrounds? That has to be hard to do without.


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## Rooster19 (Jun 22, 2014)

What about a psa xs30? Cheaper than a sb13, but (from what I've been told) higher output across most of the spectrum


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## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

The PSA XS30 should easily outperform the SB13 being the XS15se is neck and neck with it.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

willis7469 said:


> Yeah, 200 bucks is a bargain when you think about the return on investment. Plus it's plug n play with rew just makes it all the better. When I say "finance", I mean I have to re-eBay some things just to keep things balanced a little better. That way it's like I'm not spending at all!
> Btw, didn't you end up with a second PB? Where's your surrounds? That has to be hard to do without.


Did not get a 2nd PB2000, went with dual XV15se. As for surrounds, I/we have been struggling with how to integrate them into our living room. The solution is going to actually be the ideal match of asthetics and acoustics.....matching in wall surrounds in the form of Hsu in walls to match my Hsu fronts. Probably be in August(birthday). Not looking forward to the installation but looking forward to the end result :bigsmile:

Oh, and good strategy on selling old/buying new. Unfortunately for me, it has been all buying new. There either was no old, or was not worth selling.


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## rprice54 (May 26, 2012)

Thought I'd finish what I started. Found these at the house today:


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Nice!


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Yes indeed, the fun will begin. :hsd::hsd:


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## MetropolisLake (Sep 22, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> you can get an sb13u and have deep bass down to well below 15hz and if placed well will out preform two sb2000 in a heartbeat.


SVS says otherwise, you can call them up and they'll say hands down get two SB2000's. I've done it. I don't know which is correct but they say get two cheaper ones rather than the one nicer one.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I think there are variables to consider that might change SVSs' recommendations. I have seen them recommend 2less expensive subs before, but surely it's not one size fits all. 
Just sayin...


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## rprice54 (May 26, 2012)

They recommend two PB1000s. In general, here and other places folks generally recommended 2 subs over 1, even if it meant stepping down a notch in terms of performance for the individual subs. I'm working like crazy to get the room setup bill let you know how it goes.


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