# Help with home theater design



## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

I have a dedicated area in my basement for a Home Theater. I'm not trying to design the room. The walls are already framed. I have an area at the back that has a wall then storage and another wall. (this one wall could be removed if needed)...











I need help figuring out the best way to lay this out.

1. Should I build a stage?
2. What about raised seating? (the problem here is that the entrance is at the rear of the room)
3. Can I get multiple seating rows in this size room?
4. If I leave the walls as-is, I can get all the equipment in the closet behind the first back wall. This was the original Idea, but now I am thinking I need the extra depth to the room. Any ideas on this?
5. I am wanting to put in around 100" diaginal HDTV screen.

Below is a rendering of the concept I have so far. This include removing the first back wall. I don't know if this gains me that much though.










I would appreciate any ideas...


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## Ethan Winer (Jul 21, 2006)

gtcmap1 said:


> This include removing the first back wall. I don't know if this gains me that much though.


Yes, a longer room is much better acoustically because it puts the rear wall that much farther away. Peaks and nulls always become worse as you get closer to the rear wall behind you.

--Ethan


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Hi Chad,

Your links were broken, so I can't actually see your room layout, but...

1. I believe *stages *are personal choice (there's no technical reason to have them). In Australia I think you'd be regarded as a wanker, but in the US people would probably oooh and ahhh. Up to you :heehee:

2. You don't want to raise the front row (obviously) but the back row will benefit for sure. Optimal eye height is about one third of the way up the screen, so (if you can) put your chairs and screen in place, then chock the chairs up to the required level.

5. Geez, they make 100" screens that aren't front projection? I'm guessing it's rear projection, which is all fine and good... although at that size I'd also audition some a few projectors.

Keep us posted!


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Welcome to the forum ...:wave::wave:

I can't see the sketch ... (I think you need 5 posts to be able to add photos and links ...:scratchhead



> 1. Should I build a stage?


This is a personal choice, I don't think is necessary but depending on your speakers it can help you to hide them ...



> 2. What about raised seating? (the problem here is that the entrance is at the rear of the room) .. 3. Can I get multiple seating rows in this size room?..


I have a room (9 x 18 x 8) and I have two rows ... if the current entrance will present a problem, Can you move it???



> ..4. If I leave the walls as-is, I can get all the equipment in the closet behind the first back wall. This was the original Idea, but now I am thinking I need the extra depth to the room. Any ideas on this? ..


I've seen some photos where they build a rack in the front or corner to keep all equipment ... is hard to say because I can see the sketch and I don't know the dimensions of your room...



> ..5. I am wanting to put in around 100" diaginal HDTV screen...


Have you look online for calculators to see what size best fit your room??? ... I don't own a projector, so I can comment on this for you ...

Good Luck ..:T:T


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## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

I've attached the files. I can see them in the post. Don't know why you can't.

Yes this will be a front projector setup. Sorry didn't mention it. I also have an alternate setup where I put the second row along the back wall and move the doors all the way to the side. The seating will be a little offset from the front row, but I don't think it will matter much.

How much room do I need for the to comfortably accomadate the seating. I mean the distance between rows of seats.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

gtcmap1 said:


> I've attached the files. I can see them in the post. Don't know why you can't.
> 
> Yes this will be a front projector setup. Sorry didn't mention it. I also have an alternate setup where I put the second row along the back wall and move the doors all the way to the side. The seating will be a little offset from the front row, but I don't think it will matter much.
> 
> How much room do I need for the to comfortably accomadate the seating. I mean the distance between rows of seats.


Now I can see the sketch ...:T:T:T

Can you use a single door instead of a double ??? ... maybe it will help you to have the seats centered ... unless you don't mind that the persons seating there won't get all the sorround effect ...:dunno::dunno: ... also, is better if you don't have the back row to close to the wall ... :yes::yes:

So, your room will be around 18 x 15 x 8 (L x W x H) ... Right???


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## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

The screen would be approx. 18ft from the back wall. about 15ft wide and ceiling will be 7.5-8 at the soffits and up to about 9 in the middle.

I can use one door. I was trying to be able to open up this room to the adjacent pool room when having parties. That was the thought of the double doors. (It may be overkill and not used like that much.)

I'm concerned that the front seats may get too close to the screen if I move the back row any closer. As they are now, the front row would be about 10ft from the screen. I'm willing to listen to any suggestions though. I'm trying to do all the homework before I start. As you can see from the drawing, There will be a false wall set-up to do the arched opening and hide the speaker (left,right,sub) . Im not sure where to put the surrounds yet. I don't know if I should get some bi-polar to help distribute the sound to the back better. The main viewing area would be the front row.

When you open the doors you would come into a kinda landing area and have to go up the stairs to the back seats and back down a set of stairs to the front seating location.

I could be talked into just one seating area easily though. I just thought I would have more options with the extra row.

What about rear surround (7.1)? I have only used 5.1 to this point.


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## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

Hi, here is another take at it using one door and centering the seats. If I used a Dipole/Bipole surround speaker on the wall between the 2 seats would I be able to get good surround sound. What do you think of this setup? Is the distance of the front seats far enought away from the screen if I want 100" diag?


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

That's looking much better. I'm terrible with imperial measurements, but it does look a little tight... I'd recommend squeezing the rows together as close as you can (so that your feet don't touch the back of the front row when you put the footrests up, of course!).

Are you doing an anamorphic (2.35:1) screen or a standard 16:9? The reason I ask is that the optimal distance from an anamorphic screen is actually closer than a comparable 16:9... something to do with less relative side-to-side movement of objects on screen.

Certainly go to the THX site for their viewing recommendations. But in the end, it's what you think you can live with, without feeling like you're watching a tennis match. :rubeyes:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

gtcmap1 said:


> Hi, here is another take at it using one door and centering the seats. If I used a Dipole/Bipole surround speaker on the wall between the 2 seats would I be able to get good surround sound. What do you think of this setup? Is the distance of the front seats far enought away from the screen if I want 100" diag?



You're doing the right thing ... planning the room before doing any work ...:clap::clap:

I don't have a lot of experience, but I'm glad to give you my opinions to help you set up a nice Home Theater ... I'm sure you will.

I found this place online http://www.myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html it help you to calculate the screen size, you can also look for information on accoustics, speaker placement, etc. (very important).

My system is a 7.1 ... some are happy with 5.1 and the only difference is the extra pair of speakers that use the same signal of the surround speakers to send them to the back surround speakers :dizzy::dizzy: ... if you use the two rows, I think a 7.1 will be better ... as far as using dipoles or bipoles, that will also help to distribute the sound in the room ...:yes::yes: .. last weekend I replaced a pair of my surrounds (I had Infinity TSS 750 but I got a pair or Fluance AV-BP2 and I think they sound better ... you can see them here at the shack electronics or you can go directly to www.fluance.com )

Do you have any speakers on mind??? ... budget will be helpful to know and I'm sure you will get a lot of recommendations to get the speakers, sub, etc...


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

gtcmap1 said:


> Is the distance of the front seats far enought away from the screen if I want 100" diag?


10' from a 100" 16:9 screen is a bit too close..Ideally you should be at a minimum distance of 11'6"-12'..
If you're planning to go to a Scope screen, then 10' would be ideal as John mentioned..
Then you would be able to get your back row further from the back wall...


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## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

Few more questions: I have redisigned again. The little 3ft walls in front of the screen are there to hide the front speakers. They would have grill cloth over most of them.

I know I need to sound deaden the back wall. My center channel speaker will sit below the screen. Is it OK to mount the screen to the back wall? I have seen some put up a false wall to mount the screen. Is this necessary?

How about the front speakers and height? Can you go too high with these? I mean if you go high will not the highs be shot right over your head? My speakers are Paradigms and they are about 3 ft tall with dual drivers and a tweeter.

What about the sub location I have in the drawing? Is this good? what other options would there be?

There is about 3' 4" from the front "false wall", that will have an arched opening, to the screen. Is this too far back from the false wall? I want to have draperies on the sides here and have them hide the screen when not in use.


Do any of you have good info on accoustical treatments? I have a soffit in the back and along the side walls. I can turn the back soffit into a bass trap. If I do this can I still have recessed lights in this soffit?

I need as many bass traps as possible from what I have read. Where else would they go?

I would also need treatments on the walls as well. I have seen that some put these all the way down the wall - half way up. Is this a good practice and what do you use for that application?

Thanks for all the info.


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

In this situation, I would suggest you build a false wall to hold your screen. To me, 3'8" from your stub walls (covering the speakers) to the screen wall would look strange with such a difference in distance from the seating position. I would recommend you build a false wall for the screen 2 feet from where you have it now. 

There are many advantages to the false wall.

For your room geometry, this gives you a good compromise on viewing angle between the two rows. 44 degrees for the front row and 28 degrees for the back row.

It will allow you to place your sub anywhere along the front wall, but behind the false wall, so that it is still out of sight. This is good so you have some flexibility in placement to reduce room affects (peaks and nulls) on low frequencies as much as possible.

It will also allow you to put sound absorbing materials behind the false wall and screen to reduce any first reflections from the main speakers. This is especially helpful for clear dialogue.

Where will your projector be located? If you are doing a ceiling mount, your archway will likely have to be very high or risk clipping the top of the projected image. That or you will have to hang the projector low enough to hit your head on it. Regardless, bringing the screen closer to the archway will give you more flexibility with relative positioning between the screen and projector.

Your L-C-R speakers should all have their tweeters at ear level and the same distance from the main viewing position.

Lastly, for now anyway, is your need for a riser. In this case, I say it would be good but not necessary. I installed a theater in my brother-in-law's basement several months ago. His ceiling height was rather low and he could not use a riser. All we had to do was stagger the seating such that nobody in the back row was directly behind a person in the front row. The back row has an unobstructed view of the screen. Your recent sketches have that configuration, so I would suggest you mock up the seating positions with some lawn chairs or something and try to determine if you want the back row to be elevated or not.


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## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

I had the screen on the front wall to gain distance from the first row of seats. With in on the front wall, at best, I can get about 11ft viewing distance from the front row. 

I do have risers planned for the back row. 

I was not planning on an accoustcally transparent screen, so the center would have to go below or above the screen. (a trade off I guess). I can angle the "stub" walls back and bring the arch closer to the screen, say maybe only 2 ft out vs. the 3'8" as show. This should help somewhat. I am not against the false wall for the screen, just want to be able to get the 2 rows of seats in and still have good viewing distances.

I can't decide on mount points for the projector. I could put it on the ceiling or in the soffit along the back wall. Is either a better choice?


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## Ethan Winer (Jul 21, 2006)

gtcmap1 said:


> Do any of you have good info on accoustical treatments?


Look here:

www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

and here:

www.realtraps.com



> I need as many bass traps as possible from what I have read. Where else would they go?


Every room has 12 corners. The back wall behind you is good for bass traps too.



> I have seen that some put these all the way down the wall - half way up. Is this a good practice and what do you use for that application?


For first reflection points what matters most is having the treatment at ear level, plus a little above and below.

--Ethan


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

Do you know what projector you are getting or at least the resolution you want?


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## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

No, I definatly have not got that far yet. I'm going to wait until I'm almost complete with construction before making that purchase. I would like to get 1080p.


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

I hope you don’t mind my long ramblings.

Viewing distance is one of those subjective things, so you should do what feels and looks best to you. Personally, I would go a little closer…10 feet I think. Reconsidering, I would just leave the screen on the front wall and adjust your seating distance later when everything is installed. If you decide to move the front row a little closer, then you gain some room for the second row to get off that back wall a little. Anyway, here are some numbers. For 1080 resolution on a 100" screen, even a person with 20/20 acuity would have to sit 6 feet from the screen to actually see pixels. 10 feet would be the minimum for a 720 resolution projector. 10 feet also happens to give you the 40 degree viewing angle recommended by THX for an HDTV screen.

I really like your idea of angling the two small walls back to bring the arch closer to the screen. I think that would also give a little character to the front of the room. I would still put some acoustic dampening on the walls behind the L-C-R speakers.

If you can't bring the center speaker up to ear height, then you can still angle it up to point at ear level. It really does make a difference. When I finally got speaker stands for my living room, even my wife noticed the improvement and she is the least critical of sound quality of anybody I know.

Your projector mounting position could very likely be determined by the throw distance on the projector. It is quite possible that there won't be enough zoom adjustment to put the projector in the rear soffit without the image exceeding 100" diagonal. Either plan to be flexible with your wiring and projector position or pick the projector you will eventually buy and figure out exactly where it can go. The rear soffit has some benefits when it comes to wire routing and using it as a hush box if the projector fan will bother you. Ceiling mount works fine too. Also be aware, if your projector doesn't have enough vertical lens shift capability (or none at all), you'll have to mount the projector upside-down using ceiling mount style bracket, even if it is in the soffit. Otherwise, you'll be angling the lens of the projector down and using a lot of keystone correction.

As for 7.1 vs 5.1, it depends on your equipment and plans for upgrading. If you want to be able to accommodate the full capabilities of HDDVD and BluRay then go with 7.1. You could also just plan ahead and pre-wire for the additional two surround speakers if you decide to add them in the future. The second row isn’t going to be very optimal for surround sound since it is right on the rear wall, so just position the speakers optimally for the front row. That means even with or just slightly behind the front row for the side surrounds and on the rear wall and close together for the rear surrounds.


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## gtcmap1 (Oct 4, 2007)

I am planning on accoustical treatments along front wall as well as other places. Just trying to learn more about those now. Especially bass traps. I'm thinking of using the soffits as bass traps as soon as I figure out how to do that.

I will try to post another rendition of my plans. I may be changing somewhat. Probably taking the arch out and building some curved false speaker wall on the edges of the stage.


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

I totally agree with everything Matt says, especially the need to place the projector in its optimal position after you buy it (every projector has a different sweet-spot throw distance).

You'd be wise to wire the room for 7.1 or even 9.1 if you can... easier now than later. I was reading in HT magazine that they're thinking of bringing out 22.xx... "radial" surround! I should take out shares in cable manufacturers...


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