# Pure Direct on Yamaha RX-V663



## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

I got a yammy hooked up with Klipsch budget speakers (VF-35) and I always heard that ppl love the sound of the music or movies using Pure Direct but honestly when I use it the result is the most flat and boring sound ever. 

The speakers act like if somebody have covered the tweeters with a thick blanket and the bass is almost non existent. So my question is this: which one is to blame? The speakers or the receiver?


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm not sure there would be any reason to assign blame to either. Are you happy with the sound in other listening modes? In pure direct mode your YPAO room correction is no longer engaged as well as any other audio processing. With my Onkyo in pure mode which is similar Audyssey is no longer engaged and the sound is pretty plain also.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

Ok, you 35's have triple 5.25's and aluminum dome horn, so it should sound different in Direct vs. EQ'd. The Direct with my Yamaha removes all tone control, removes as much processing as possible to provide a clean signal. Heres a thought, how does it sound when you turn the EQ to GEQ or off in normal listening mode not Direct? Try that and see if there is a difference.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

Thnks for the quick reply. Yes I have tried with the eq settings and the sound improved a lot actually I run the YPAO on Natural and from there I start to tweak the settings and use everything on Straight I cant stand either the music enhancer or the other surround modes.

But when I select Pure Direct the system sound fuller but like I described before: with top & bottom end gone. So basically thats all the type of sound I can get from Pure Direct right?


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

The "Natural" really rolls off the highs and boosts lower mid and lows, seems logical with a horn setup. The "Flat" for me with Yamaha is their best curve and wakes up the top end so much, imo. The differences between natural and flat should be dramatic. So you know its not the receiver if things sound great with YPAO. I looked at the Klipsch site at your enclosures and they may have a resonance purposely engineered into them. I'm betting they are tuned for some upper bass response thus giving you that full sound in Direct. I read also that even extremely efficient the aluminum was designed to not be so sharp vs. the titaniums Klipsch uses. My dad has some F1's that need eq'n to take all that energy and smooth it over the full frequency range.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

To answer, i'm thinking yes if YPAO makes all better than Direct. Our Yamaha receivers already deliver that full, rich, and accurate sound so maximizing YPAO to smooth out those 35's maybe more enjoyable in your room and your specific acoustics in your room.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You need to remember that most speakers under $1000 will not be truly flat if there is no EQ applied to them. Room acoustics also play a huge role in how they will sound thus YAPO, Audyssey, MMAC and other room EQ systems will correct for that as best they can.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Have you played with speaker placement at all? Also those towers are able to be bi-amped. If your not using your zone2 on the Yamaha you may want to play with removing the jumpers from the towers and powering the tweeters separately from the woofers. Adding this power to the tweeter and woofers may just give you the boost your looking for.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

rab-byte said:


> Adding this power to the tweeter and woofers may just give you the boost your looking for.


That boost is so minimal that I highly suspect you could ever tell a difference. The highs would draw at the very most 10 watts of power.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> You need to remember that most speakers under $1000 will not be truly flat if there is no EQ applied to them. Room acoustics also play a huge role in how they will sound thus YAPO, Audyssey, MMAC and other room EQ systems will correct for that as best they can.


Thats why normally the value of the speakers should be superior or similar to the price of the receiver right? Low price=mediocre sound


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

rab-byte said:


> Have you played with speaker placement at all? Also those towers are able to be bi-amped. If your not using your zone2 on the Yamaha you may want to play with removing the jumpers from the towers and powering the tweeters separately from the woofers. Adding this power to the tweeter and woofers may just give you the boost your looking for.


Tried before to no avail. Probably should try a real speaker wire ( right now im using some 16 gauge wire I got lying around the house)


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

hearingspecialist said:


> The "Natural" really rolls off the highs and boosts lower mid and lows, seems logical with a horn setup. The "Flat" for me with Yamaha is their best curve and wakes up the top end so much, imo. The differences between natural and flat should be dramatic. So you know its not the receiver if things sound great with YPAO. I looked at the Klipsch site at your enclosures and they may have a resonance purposely engineered into them. I'm betting they are tuned for some upper bass response thus giving you that full sound in Direct. I read also that even extremely efficient the aluminum was designed to not be so sharp vs. the titaniums Klipsch uses. My dad has some F1's that need eq'n to take all that energy and smooth it over the full frequency range.


Already tried with Flat and I didnt like the sound for me the highs sounded "metallic" and dry so far between Front & Natural I prefer the sound of the latter.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

jmspiderman said:


> Thats why normally the value of the speakers should be superior or similar to the price of the receiver right? Low price=mediocre sound


Its kind of the "chicken before the egg" thing, Its really important to have good amplification but good speakers is also important and you dont need to break the bank to get either.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Its kind of the "chicken before the egg" thing, Its really important to have good amplification but good speakers is also important and you dont need to break the bank to get either.


In that case would I benefit from an outboard amplifier or that benefit would be minimal? I dont know but I think I got bitten by the wife-dreaded upgraditis bug.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

What model Yamaha do you have?


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

One thing I forgot to mention is that I use a WD Live box hdmi to stream everything through my network and I know that little box is very far away from "audiophile" standards.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> What model Yamaha do you have?


RX-V663


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Its rated to do 95watts per ch so I suspect it will in reality do about 65watts per channel. Your speakers are fairly efficient so it would depend on if you like running them hot and what crossover setting your using.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

I was thinking to sell the receiver and upgrade to a RX-A3020 to see if I can get any improvement on the sound


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

jmspiderman said:


> I was thinking to sell the receiver and upgrade to a RX-A3020 to see if I can get any improvement on the sound


Huge boost
Look at Marantz also now that your getting into that price point. Everyone here will recommend an onkyo and they're good but I like me some Marantz!

Also try the bi-amping. It's free and you may be surprised.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

rab-byte said:


> Huge boost
> Look at Marantz also now that your getting into that price point. Everyone here will recommend an onkyo and they're good but I like me some Marantz!
> 
> Also try the bi-amping. It's free and you may be surprised.


Thanks for the tips gonna get some wire from Monoprice and give it a shot regarding the Marantz never heard one on action how is its sound signature? dark,bright,neutral? Had an entry level Onkyo once tweeked it all I could but never liked it how it sounded.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Neutral and mellow with a good tight punch

Those towers you have will make anything sound a little bright.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

jmspiderman said:


> Had an entry level Onkyo once tweeked it all I could but never liked it how it sounded.


Thats generally the case with any entry level receiver. This is usually caused by the lack of power to drive the speakers and then you get distortion. Right now the Onkyo 818 is getting rave reviews.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

rab-byte said:


> Neutral and mellow with a good tight punch
> 
> Those towers you have will make anything sound a little bright.


No problem at all I like detailed sound


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

Brian and based on that "boost" in the speakers on the upper bass frequencies what should be a good starting point on the Eq frequency range?


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

jmspiderman said:


> Brian and based on that "boost" in the speakers on the upper bass frequencies what should be a good starting point on the Eq frequency range?


What your room EQ gave you. Tweak from there.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

rab-byte said:


> What your room EQ gave you. Tweak from there.


Ok rab let me see if I understand you. I first run YPAO then when finish calibration I take all the eq readings that YPAO "thinks" that are good for my speakers/room then go to manual eq and start playing with the frequencies afected by YPAO. Is that what you trying to say?


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

YPAO will not allow seeing what its done on the parametric side of things, yes for distance, and all that stuff but not the parametric settings. I tell people to run YPAO and let it do its magic, listen to what its done and maybe adjust crossover settings to what works in your room, say start with 80hz. Listen for a while, allow yourself some time with all set to small and crossover set to 80hz, just enjoy. Now, you will know if you won't like something after that, then easily go back in and maybe adjust your crossover setting to then 60hz and once again listen and allow some time to enjoy. People sometimes rush to make all these crazy adjustments and after its all said and done they are back to small settings on all and a 80hz crossover setting. You can also toggle between the PEQ and the GEQ once YPAO is done and you like the settings, also remember you have to accept what YPAO has done for the setting to be set. In fact, on the screen of the receiver after all is done it should come up after "YPAO complete" screen..."set or cancel"..choose "set". Most make the biggest mistake and complain not realizing they never allowed the YPAO settings to be used, they just rip out the mic and start listening. You have a good receiver and I love my Yamaha and its sound.


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

hearingspecialist said:


> YPAO will not allow seeing what its done on the parametric side of things, yes for distance, and all that stuff but not the parametric settings. I tell people to run YPAO and let it do its magic, listen to what its done and maybe adjust crossover settings to what works in your room, say start with 80hz. Listen for a while, allow yourself some time with all set to small and crossover set to 80hz, just enjoy. Now, you will know if you won't like something after that, then easily go back in and maybe adjust your crossover setting to then 60hz and once again listen and allow some time to enjoy. People sometimes rush to make all these crazy adjustments and after its all said and done they are back to small settings on all and a 80hz crossover setting. You can also toggle between the PEQ and the GEQ once YPAO is done and you like the settings, also remember you have to accept what YPAO has done for the setting to be set. In fact, on the screen of the receiver after all is done it should come up after "YPAO complete" screen..."set or cancel"..choose "set". Most make the biggest mistake and complain not realizing they never allowed the YPAO settings to be used, they just rip out the mic and start listening. You have a good receiver and I love my Yamaha and its sound.


Well actually when YPAO is done with the calibration and before accept the measurements I can toggle like you said among distance,levels,crossover,size,but also I can see all the frequencies that were cut or boost per channel by YPAO the only thing is that I can not change them and it also shows frequencies that are not on the eq sliders.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

I wish we could tweak and adjust those freq's and also the Q values of what YPAO did. Wishful thinking!


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## jmspiderman (Jun 2, 2008)

Well I think I got the solution for my problem. Yesterday I hook up a VAIO laptop with hdmi output to the receiver and the quality of the sound improved a lot.

I used VLC player and everything sounded more detailed and clearer even on Pure Direct the sound was very good and of course I didnt engage the eq on the laptop to get the music without processing.The movies also sounded better than my WD TVLive which honestly is a mediocre music player

So Im thinking now building a HTPC instead replacing the speakers or the reciver and I think it would be cheaper too.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

Awesome! I'm glad you tracked down the source.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

With most brands, the direct mode turns off any DSPs and often disables nearly all digital circuits. Steering logic is disabled. So a signal designated for teh sub does not find its way to the fronts and vice versa. My experience with Klipsch Reference is that they are not very bass heavy. I would suspect the speakers are to blame. But it could easily be a combination of both.


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