# I found an old subwoofer shootout



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

As a subjective subwoofer shoot out this one is pretty good. http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/2316/shootout-five-mid-price-subwoofers.html
If anyone owns any of these subs or their current production equivalent please confirm or deny what was written in this review.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

The link doesn't work.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/tests-reviews/speakers/2007/05/shootout-five-mid-price-subwoofers

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/tests-reviews/speakers/2007/05/test-bench-five-mid-price-subwoofers

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/tests-reviews/speakers/2004/09/seismic-subs

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/tests-reviews/speakers/2001/06/subway-series


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Sorry about the bad link, thanks for helping out jackfish.
I fixed the link in the original post.

What do you guys think about the Velodyne DLS5000 hanging in there with the Hsu and the Outlaw ?
Think its true ?


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Chashint - The Velo is made for 30 Hz and up bass. It's the type of subwoofer that will always sound good, and it is going to be easier to set up than something like the Hsu with the Turbo - or even the Hsu using one port. 

The Hsu and Outlaw will hit deeper, and are both better overall perfomers, but they won't be as powerful in the 30-80 Hz as is the Velo.

A subwoofer that gets the 30 to 80 Hz range done powerfully is the type of subwoofer that most people will love to own.

Hobbyists such as one will usually find at The Shack will normally want the 20 Hz bass, and will typically look at the ID subwoofer brands for this.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Howdy Craig,
I had a big cup of coffee after dinner and unfortunately it has ruined my sleep.
One of these days I am going to get around to actually buying a sub instead of just talking about subs.

My living room is the everything room and there are only two places for a sub to go and I don't even know if either place is really viable in regards to SQ.
I have RF-83's for the front L/R and if the Velodyne does not go below 30Hz with authority it is probably not going to do me a lot of good.
The reason I keep looking at the lower tier Velodynes is because they are the best available locally and if I don't like it the return will only cost me about one gallon of gasoline.
Even though I have returned speakers because I didn’t like them, I don’t believe in ‘borrowing’ things from a store just to try them out.

I do think the ID subs are better value than the ‘name brand’ subs, but having never lived with the beast I am hesitant about trying one out that is not easily and cheaply returned.
Too bad the Velo is not a bottom dweller or I would give it a chance… LOL.

BTW are you forbidden from recommending your own products ?? 
The CHT offerings are certainly still in contention for my subwoofer dollars.
I don’t ask about them on the forums because the user base is still so small there is not a lot of info I have not seen.


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Chashint - The folks at Home Theater Shack welcomed me to talk about my products. If someone asks me what I think of our subwoofers vs. others on the market, I would prefer to have the conversation privately, as there are so mny variables.

You can find 34 user reviews of our 18 inch subs and 2 of our dual 10's here:

http://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=17&order=desc

We have been directly compared to the following:

Danley DTS-10 (2 of them in one system)
Epik Empire (4 in one system)
SVS Dual-12 Ultra pair (four 12 inch drivers)
Acoustic Elegance AV-15H with dual 18 inch Passive Radiators (two of these, each with a 1000 watt amp against a single 18.2).
Actual working MFW-15's.

The list goes on - and over time, I think you will find out customers speak for our products.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I have been following TCA and CHT from the start.
Considering the amount of work it has taken and all the 'stuff' that has been written in another forum; I don't know if you consider the venture to be successful or worth it, but there are still many people like myself that wants to see you (or any new business venture) suceed.

DT_Mike auditioned his 18.2 for me and my wife (maybe back in October).
That demo certainly softened the wifey up on the possibility of getting a sub for ourselves (only in regards to what a sub can sound like though).... I am still working on the giant box having a place in the living room problem LOL

There is not much action on the CHT forum these days but I still check in there once or twice a week.
I guess most everyone still on the sidelines is waiting to see the next step in progress in 2011.

I know its no fun to be hounded and have every word analyzed for hidden meanings, but when it comes to dealing with the lynch mob at the other place keep this in the back of your mind... 
You cannot win an argument with an idiot, no matter what you try, an idiot will quickly drag you down to their level where they will use their experience to beat you.


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Our 2011-2012 products will start arriving at our assembly/warehouse facility this week. The first products will be the new SS-18.2 subwoofer, which is identical in performance to the CS-18.2, but uses a new Satin paint process with a very durable Polyurethane paint.

Also due are the new 3 inch, Full range speakers "Waf-3's" ... They are a 4"x5"x6" speaker with a single full range driver. Combined with a good subwoofer, like our CS-10.2, they make for quite the movie experience.

At our GTG in November, we played a pair in 2 channel mode, with a subwoofer. The lights were off for the demo, when the lights came on, each person who has heard them laughed at the great sound.

Once these speakers are here, and I have checked over the finish, the 2011 PRO/SHO-10's will be ordered, along with the SS-18.1, which is identical to the CS-18.1's in performance, but with an upgraded enclsoure and finish.

We are even putting together an upgrade process for our customers who purchase the CS-18.1 series 2 and later wish he/she had the new SS-18.1 cabinet. This upgrade will be very affordable and simple for our customers.

I understand you totally in regards to the other forum. It can be .... fun. :T


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## koyaan (Mar 2, 2010)

I run an Outlaw LFM-1EX and would have to concur with the reviewer's analysis, though I don't play either music or movies at ear-splitting volumes, so I've never noticed the bass loosing integrity when really pushed.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I see just enough references to port noise (usually when someone gets a new sub and is comparing its improved qualities to the old one) that it makes me wonder about the ported design in general.
We listen to the movies with audio authority but it is far from ear splitting levels.
Thanks for the feedback koyaan.


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## koyaan (Mar 2, 2010)

Just another note:
The Outlaw is also designed and built by Dr.Hsu but is a down-firing rather than side firing design.
I also run one of the little 10 inch Hsu subs, It will develop some port noise when pushed, but I've never had that problem with the bigger Outlaw.


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## Floridapoolboy (Jan 27, 2011)

I run twin Outlaw EX subs and will say that they can deliver the goods with authority. The variable tuning allows the user to decide between max output or max extension, very cool. When on sale these subs are a real bargain, mine were around $550 each including delivery. Another thing is their fit and finish, these subs are really nice looking! They have rounded corners, and a very nice plexi-glass top that is sure to win over the significant other. There are a lot of subs being introduced lately that boast tremendous output numbers and extremely deep extension. The addictive nature of this hobby gets people excited about ever increased performance, but truth be told few people will ever use >127db output at 16hz! For the majority of HT enthusiasts subs like the Outlaw, Hsu VTF-3.3, etc. are the ideal combination of performance, looks, and price. This doesn't mean I'm not looking at a pair of monster subs in the future............ I just won't tell the wife!


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

chashint said:


> DT_Mike auditioned his 18.2 for me and my wife (maybe back in October).
> That demo certainly softened the wifey up on the possibility of getting a sub for ourselves (only in regards to what a sub can sound like though).... I am still working on the giant box having a place in the living room problem LOL


A while back, I asked Craig about multi subs and using a single Dayton SA1000 to power them. We discussed the 10's and the 18's. I was interested in a smaller package and smoothing the room response with duals or quads.

The 18.T Duo was born! It offers roughly the same performance in a more manageable package. I see in another post you said you have two placement options. onder:

Two 18.2's seem to be pretty popular, too. :yikes:


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

HaHa... yes there are two placement options but filling both might be a stretch even for my vivid imagination.... but I do like the way you think


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## htaddikt (May 14, 2007)

I run the same. My EX replaced the Velo 5000 which I picked up at a great price as a demo. It has gobs of power, but very limited response below 30 Hz as I found out later.
The EX gets gives you the gut feel and is a quality sub all around. I would not say it is more musical than the Velodyne, but certainly does as well and does it much deeper.
The Hsu Mk3 is basically the same sub. Either one is a good choice from excellent companies.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

htaddikt said:


> I run the same. My EX replaced the Velo 5000 which I picked up at a great price as a demo. It has gobs of power, but very limited response below 30 Hz as I found out later.
> The EX gets gives you the gut feel and is a quality sub all around. I would not say it is more musical than the Velodyne, but certainly does as well and does it much deeper.
> The Hsu Mk3 is basically the same sub. Either one is a good choice from excellent companies.


Thanks for the feedback.


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