# Need recommendations for Amp



## azaze1 (Nov 29, 2011)

I'm interested in giving my Paradigm Studio 100s and CC690 more power.

I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-NR5008 exclusively and am considering preouts to 3 or 5 channel AMP. I see Emotiva is very popular amongst many HT enthusiasts, but one thing I wish they had was an auto-sensing power on feature for the XPA-3 or XPA-5. I'd like to avoid the trigger on business as there aren't many elegant solutions without a super smart remote when using the Onkyo.

QUESTION IS: Who competes with Emotiva? I don't know many names for AMPs. I didn't know emotiva until I started paying attention to people's signatures.

I'm hoping for something that's A) quality for my Paradigms. B) not in the several thousand range (I like Emotiva's $600 sale now for XPA-3), and C) auto-sensing for power on/off.

Suggestions welcome. Thanks,


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

The Anthem PVA2 or PVA5 can be set to Auto, Trigger, or Manual on/off. I use the auto setting and it works great. My Onkyo powers on at -55dB, the Anthem powers on before I get the volume up near -30dB. It's a race between the PVA2 and the Sub 12's to see which comes on first, they run about 50/50. 
Your other option, if you went with trigger switch, is pro amps such as QSC or Crown.


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## jmschnur (May 31, 2011)

azaze1 said:


> I'm interested in giving my Paradigm Studio 100s and CC690 more power.
> 
> I'm currently using an Onkyo TX-NR5008 exclusively and am considering preouts to 3 or 5 channel AMP. I see Emotiva is very popular amongst many HT enthusiasts, but one thing I wish they had was an auto-sensing power on feature for the XPA-3 or XPA-5. I'd like to avoid the trigger on business as there aren't many elegant solutions without a super smart remote when using the Onkyo.
> 
> ...


Outlaw 7500 is a good amp .


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## NegativeEntropy (Apr 22, 2009)

The paradigm 100 specs:
1) Sensitivity 90db Anechoic - not great, but not poor.
2) Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 - 350 watts
3) Maximum Input Power† 230 watts
4) Impedance Compatible with 8 ohms

The center channel is similar (210 max input power).

They do not provide phase angle/impedance curves, so we'll have to take their 8 ohm compatible as a straight 8 ohm.

Your Receiver measures in as follows,

"This graph shows that the TX-NR5008’s left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1 percent distortion at 162.8 watts and 1 percent distortion at 194.1 watts."

So, you already have ~194W on tap (at 1% distortion - presumably you do not listen at these levels steady state, so that's acceptable) and the max recommended input power is 230W. The speaker specifications would seem to indicate you should not add a larger amp (unless your current amp is clipping regularly?).

Are you sure you want to add an amp? If so, keep it under 350W into 8 ohms per the specs. I would lean Emotiva or Crown as the others have indicated for bang/buck. Moving from 195 to 300W will gain you ~2dB SPL or less than twice as loud (which takes, as you'd expect, twice the power).

I see the Onkyo has output triggers on zone 2 and zone 3. Can you use the remote to trigger one of those to turn on the Emotiva (it accepts a 5-12V trigger signal)?


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## jmschnur (May 31, 2011)

NegativeEntropy said:


> The paradigm 100 specs:
> 1) Sensitivity 90db Anechoic - not great, but not poor.
> 2) Suitable Amplifier Power Range 15 - 350 watts
> 3) Maximum Input Power&#134; 230 watts
> ...


Not sure the onkyo is 190 per channel all channels driven. 1 % is a bit high so clean 150 per channel for all channels triggered is a reasonable goal.


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## azaze1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Thanks for the replies.

I've got some pondering to do now...


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## NegativeEntropy (Apr 22, 2009)

jmschnur said:


> Not sure the onkyo is 190 per channel all channels driven. 1 % is a bit high so clean 150 per channel for all channels triggered is a reasonable goal.


As the quote (and link) states, the 190 is for 2 channels. It's 162W at 0.1% into 2 channels.

All channels driven, while an interesting metric, is not representative of (any?) actual listening material (unless one likes pink or white noise or other test tones which is the only signal I'm familiar with that is sent to 5 or 7 speakers simultaneously).

After doing some self education on amps today, I'm less sure what to make of the specifications for max amp power. 

My interpretation would be to not supply continuous power of more than 230W (i.e. a signal of continuous 230W from an amp capable of delivering it).

Looking at Emotiva, I would not bother with the XPA-3: It's 200W into 8 ohms is only slightly more than your receiver. The XPA-2 however is rated at 300W, about double the 162 "clean" watts the receiver will do into 2 speakers and near enough the 350 max recommended.

Your receiver drops from 162W into 2 speakers to 79W into 5 or 7 speakers. The measurements are consistent with the specs from the manufacturer (145W into 2 channels at 8 ohms and 0.05% distortion). As such we should be able to trust the only published spec for 1 channel: dynamic power to 180W.

So, looking only at Emotiva, I'd recommend either:
1) XPA-2 for L and R, receiver continues to drive the center and other channels.
2) XPA-2 for L and R + another, similar (~300W into 8 ohms), single channel amp for the center channel or another XPA-2 where one channel goes unused.

Unfortunately, at least for Emotiva and Outlaw (the 2 sources I checked), 300W into 8 ohms does not seem to be a popular power figure it's 200W or much more than 300W.

Be careful about bridging an amp into these speakers; though the review may have been for an earlier revision of the speakers, the review from Audio measured impedance as low as 3 ohms. An amp would need to be designed to handle 1.5 ohms loads to be bridged into a 3 ohm load.


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## jmschnur (May 31, 2011)

NegativeEntropy said:


> As the quote (and link) states, the 190 is for 2 channels. It's 162W at 0.1% into 2 channels.
> 
> All channels driven, while an interesting metric, is not representative of (any?) actual listening material (unless one likes pink or white noise or other test tones which is the only signal I'm familiar with that is sent to 5 or 7 speakers simultaneously).
> 
> ...


All channels driven is more useful than one channel in a 5 or 7 channel system as a metric, when one uses the system for blu ray movies etc.
Good way to go is to get a good stereo amp for front speakers, use good mono amp for center, then avr for surrounds.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

azaze1 said:


> QUESTION IS: Who competes with Emotiva? I don't know many names for AMPs. I didn't know emotiva until I started paying attention to people's signatures.


Dollar for dollar, just about no one really. Maybe on the used market if you're willing to go that route.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

azaze1 said:


> I'd like to avoid the trigger on business as there aren't many elegant solutions without a super smart remote when using the Onkyo.


The generally-accepted solution is to use a wall wart with the correct voltage plugged into the receiver’s switched outlet.

Regards,
Wayne


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## azaze1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The generally-accepted solution is to use a wall wart with the correct voltage plugged into the receiver’s switched outlet.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


So this opens up a new arena. Any 12V wall wart will do I take it? Sounds like there is no one specific item to look for. Also, I think the Emotiva has a female end for the trigger which means these wall warts (also with female) would need a little male to male adapter.

This definitely seems more authoritative than relying on zone trigger methods in the Onkyo.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> Any 12V wall wart will do I take it? Sounds like there is no one specific item to look for.


Naturally, you have to use one with the correct voltage output and amperage capability.



> Also, I think the Emotiva has a female end for the trigger which means these wall warts (also with female) would need a little male to male adapter.


Where are you shopping? I’ve never seen a wall ward with a female plug on it. :scratch:

Regards,
Wayne


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## azaze1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Naturally, you have to use one with the correct voltage output and amperage capability.
> 
> 
> Where are you shopping? I’ve never seen a wall ward with a female plug on it. :scratch:
> ...


Okay maybe I should just ask if there are any recommended wall warts for the XPA-3/5. It's a little embarrassing to think I can't get the sexes right with these things  maybe I should be laughing.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Why not just use a Smart power strip to trigger the outboard Amp?

(I'm not clear on why you have problems with simple 12v triggers, however)


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## azaze1 (Nov 29, 2011)

KalaniP said:


> Why not just use a Smart power strip to trigger the outboard Amp?
> 
> (I'm not clear on why you have problems with simple 12v triggers, however)


I've got 2 dedicated 20amp circuits with 20amp power strips.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

azaze1 said:


> Okay maybe I should just ask if there are any recommended wall warts for the XPA-3/5.


The XPA manual should say what voltage/amperage is needed for the trigger.

Regards,
Wayne


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## azaze1 (Nov 29, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The XPA manual should say what voltage/amperage is needed for the trigger.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Oh well, I just took a look at the manual for my receiver (TX-NR5008) and it appears there's no switched AC power in the back so wall warts are off the table. My only choice is a zone2/zone3 trigger connection.

Ugg.. Oh well.

Thanks for all the help.


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## jmschnur (May 31, 2011)

azaze1 said:


> Oh well, I just took a look at the manual for my receiver (TX-NR5008) and it appears there's no switched AC power in the back so wall warts are off the table. My only choice is a zone2/zone3 trigger connection.
> 
> Ugg.. Oh well.
> 
> Thanks for all the help.


I use my onkyo triggers with no problems for both my bryston and outlaw amps in my home theater. I set the delays so that neither of my 2 20 amp circuits overload.

The preamp is on third circuit .


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

phreak said:


> The Anthem PVA2 or PVA5 can be set to Auto, Trigger, or Manual on/off. I use the auto setting and it works great. My Onkyo powers on at -55dB, the Anthem powers on before I get the volume up near -30dB. It's a race between the PVA2 and the Sub 12's to see which comes on first, they run about 50/50.
> Your other option, if you went with trigger switch, is pro amps such as QSC or Crown.


I thought I should put in an update here. I had only ran the Anthem PVA2 for a few days when I first posted in this thread. Now that I have spent a few months with it my perception of the auto on feature has degraded. My subs always turn on within seconds, but the amp sometimes lags behind, so that I have only center channel dialogue for up to a minute before L/R powers up. Is there an elegant way to trigger from an Onkyo 3008, or maybe I should trigger from my projector ?


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## jmschnur (May 31, 2011)

phreak said:


> I thought I should put in an update here. I had only ran the Anthem PVA2 for a few days when I first posted in this thread. Now that I have spent a few months with it my perception of the auto on feature has degraded. My subs always turn on within seconds, but the amp sometimes lags behind, so that I have only center channel dialogue for up to a minute before L/R powers up. Is there an elegant way to trigger from an Onkyo 3008, or maybe I should trigger from my projector ?


I use the triggers from my integra 80.2 to turn on the high power section of my panamax 5100for my Bryston and to switch on my 5 channel out law amp 3 sec for the Bryston and 10 sec for the outlaw.

Hopefully the 3008 will let do the same.


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