# Configurations and Guidance PLEASE



## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Hello everyone! I have been upgrading my HT ever since I discovered Emotiva. I now have two subs and learned from our Emotiva forum about the Shack. I read up on this and decided to get the Behringer 1194 and went for a Soundcard that had the line in and line out that was required.

I just got the Behringer. I set the rear panel switch to -10db and I pressed the in switch to put it in bypass mode. I have a lot of blinking lights. The In switch, the Store button and the twin horizontal leds are blinking red non stop.

I have read multiple times the documentation and have calibrated the soundcard. I cannot seem to calibrate the SPL meter but I have download the RS cal file and saved it.

Here are some basic questions;

Subwoofer x-over is in the on position?
Do I use the Aux on the USP-1 or Denon. I suspect Denon if I need to play test tones
I cannot get a REW test tone to play through my system?

I thought that with the SPL calibration where I am asked to match the reading on my SPL meter to the SPL Scale in REW would mean that I would get a test tone from REW though my system but I am not getting any sound so I am not sure what I am doing wrong.

Here are some pics of my configurations and I do not know what to do about all the BFD Blinking lights.

This is the configuration of all the components that play a role in this project.










Here is the configuration for the Soundcard based on the reference diagram in the REW Cabling Basics section of REW. There were two reference diagrams and they differ a little. I did not use this reference diagram and used the one from the REW Getting Started.









Here is the REW Getting Started one that has the loop back connection that I used.









I do appreciate any support I might get and I feel that this could be a long thread as I work my way through all of this stuff.

Thanks very much.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

My pictures are not displaying. Is there a delay?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi sticks and stones,



> My pictures are not displaying. Is there a delay?


It might be something with that host. We can host them for you; you can upload pics to your posts using the Manage Attachments provision under the “Go Advanced” icon.




> 1. Subwoofer x-over is in the on position?


 Assuming it’s a subwoofer you want to measure, yes.




> 2. Do I use the Aux on the USP-1 or Denon. I suspect Denon if I need to play test tones


What’s a USP-1?
Denon makes all kinds of products. Which one are you referring to?




> I do not know what to do about all the BFD Blinking lights.


 Have you reviewed this?




> 3. I cannot get a REW test tone to play through my system?


Make sure everything’s hooked up right. REW Cabling and Connection Basics

Regards,
Wayne


*EDIT:* OP's pictures were not visible when this post was made.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Hi sticks and stones,
> 
> 1) It might be something with that host. We can host them for you; you can upload pics to your posts using the Manage Attachments provision under the “Go Advanced” icon.
> 
> ...



SnS sez -1) Thanks I used Flickr but some of the diagram are large 2MB so I used the URL.

SnS sez -2) Yes is is a dual subwoofer and highlighted in the diagrams

SnS sez -3) _The USP-1 is a 2 channel prepro with XLR out for sub. I have the settings wide open on the Lo Pass to enable the Sub to run the cross-over. The USP-1 is hooked up in-line with the Denon and has a Bypass that is a straight wire to the Denon for HT and passes the Subwoofer signal.
_

SnS sez -4) _ I have more than reviewed the Basics and getting started. I am not getting a REW test tone to play through my system which I think is the concept where I take the actual SPL reading and then match it to the SPL dial in ReW? I am not getting an audible test tone from REW through my system and I have tried using the Denon Aux and the USP-1.
_

SnS sez -5) I agree on getting the cabling correct so I attached the diagrams to get some validations. I know is it operator error just not sure what I am doing wrong yet.

Thank you for your responses and I look forward to learning all about this. Wayne, by the way I am originally from Sherman Texas and noticed Katy on your signature.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Sherman? I think we went through there earlier this year on our way up to Missouri. :T




sticknstones said:


> Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:
> 
> 
> > > I do not know what to do about all the BFD Blinking lights.
> ...


_I asked about the BFD, and you answered about REW. :scratch: If you’re wondering about the blinking lights on BFD, that tells me you haven’t read the BFD guide? 



sticknstones said:



Here are some basic questions;
[*]Subwoofer x-over is in the on position?

Click to expand...

Whatever you normally have it set for is the setting you should use.





[*]Do I use the Aux on the USP-1 or Denon. I suspect Denon if I need to play test tones

Click to expand...

Shouldn’t matter which one you use, since both the Denon and USP-1 can accommodate input sources.





[*]I cannot get a REW test tone to play through my system?

Click to expand...

I’m afraid your system is too complicated for us to troubleshoot over the internet. There’s no way for us to know all the possible settings and combinations of settings etc. for those two processors, dual subs, etc. Before we can do anything, you’ll have to verify that your subs are working properly during the normal use of your system, and fix that if they are not.


If the subs and everything is working as it should:

* Make sure your 3.5 m-to-RCA cable (from the soundcard output to the Denon or UPS-1 input) is a stereo Y-splitter. 
* Based on the description in your first post, I don’t see any indication of a USB cable connecting the sound card to the computer. You won’t get anything from REW to the HT system without the USB cable.


Regards,
Wayne
_


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Within REW I chose the SoundCard that I installed and it sees it. I have output to speaker, input from line-in. When I calibrate the soundcard using the loop-in method I get a low 32db heading.

Once I go to SPL calibration I am choosing the REW produced SUB signal but I do not have any sound coming out to SUB. If I bark hey hey hey, I can see the SPL move and register on the REW scale. I have the USP-1, Aux 1 using 2M-1F adapter and then into the Soundcard Line out mono. I then have a loop from the other line out to line-in on the soundcard where the Line In is a single 3.5m jack that I have a 3.5M stereo to twin RCA. The other RCA on Line-in goes to the SPL output RCA. I know I have the cabling correct but wonder if the soundcard is not pumping out the signal to the processor.

???????? The subs do work when I use in normal use playing a cd but I cannot do the calibration.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

As Wayne wrote, with so many pieces of equipment it is hard to diagnose your problem remotely. 

If you attach headphones to the Denon and run main speaker pink noise, do you hear sound from the headphones? If not, as you suggest, you may not be getting any output from the soundcard, or you may not be properly selecting the AUX input. 

Of course, if you were not getting output from the soundcard, you would not be able to create the soundcard calibration file. If the right channel loopback lets you create a soundcard calibration file, but you cannot hear sound from headphones attached to the Denon, you know there is something wrong with the cabling or the receiver's AUX source setup configuration.

Assuming you are driving the Denon, if you turn on the amp and run main speaker pink noise, do you hear sounds from the front speakers? If so, that would suggest a configuration issue where no crossover is active redirecting sound to the sub. 

If you do get sound from the full range speakers, if you re-cable just one sub directly to the Denon, do you hear the sub pink noise from the one sub? If so, that would suggest something about the cabling between the Denon and the USP-1, or the options set in the USP-1. 

As you have one configuration working, with the CD player to the USP-1, do you get sound if you unplug the CD player and plug the cable from the soundcard into the same connectors? Alternatively, if you plug the CD output into the AUX input on the Denon and switch to the AUX source, do you hear bass sound from the subs? 

I think if you take this step-by-step, you will be able to isolate what is happening. 
Bill


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Okay, I bought a new soundcard and picked up the Soundblaster SB1090. I re-calibrated the soundcard and have a healthy signal and was able to calbrate the SPL and generate a subwoofer test tone through my HT system. I am using the USP-1 Aux 1 and was able to produce an output using the REW sub signal now with no problem.

The cabling was exactly the same as with the Star Tech soundcard so I will return it back to TigerDirect.

Now to the next step.....


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Hi folks and thanks for your help so far.

Okay, the new soundcard is working just fine and I have done the calibrations for card and SPL.

I took my first measurements and used 4 sweeps. I went to the EQ section and selected the EQ filters and I notice that there is no data there and each filter is selected with auto? 

If I am doing this correctly I sense that I will use the SPL to make measurements and save them. I then with the midi cables can transfer the data to the BFD 1194.

Any reason that you can think of that I am not getting the measurements into the EQ filters?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

After measuring, did you run the four equalizing routines (“Find Peaks,” “Assign Filters,” etc.) under the “Filter Tasks” icon?

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Hi Wayne, I am reading through the help index again and taking it slow. I just ordered the Midi cable today and will more than likely start over when I get it and use what I have been doing thus far as experience building.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> After measuring, did you run the four equalizing routines (“Find Peaks,” “Assign Filters,” etc.) under the “Filter Tasks” icon?
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


I downloaded the V5 version should I be on 4.10 as I do not see how to find peaks??


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

V5 is more automated, those steps are not needed. Make sure you have selected the equaliser you are using and the target shape is correct (i.e. subwoofer for a sub-only measurement, full-range for sub+main), click "Set Target Level" to get the level about right (adjust up or down manually if necessary) then click "Match response to target" in the Filter Settings. If you are happy with the result click "send filter settings to equaliser".


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

John, Wayne
Are you open to doing a web-ex session with me at some agreed time. I would send you a meeting invite to your personal email with a link to the web conference. You would be prompted to down load the applet and log-in. Once logged in I can share my desktop and show what I am trying to do. I can include a 800 conference bridge for the audio.

I would be happy to make some sort of donation to the Shack for the privilege. Please let me know.

thank you for your consideration.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

*Re: what about online help ?*

Hi Wayne here is the first graph. It seems that the soundcard calibration is okay. It seems like the mic calibration still needs to boost the low end but I loaded the calibration file for the RS meter. The phase looks funny to me but not sure. When I do a measurement the results look really strange.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Looks like main problem, probably, is that you don’t have the graph axis set right. Look for an icon labeled “Graph Limits” and set it for 45-105 dB top to bottom. If you’re primarily interested in subwoofer response, set the left to right for 10-200 Hz. If you’re really interested in seeing response up to 1 kHz, then post a second graph with a range of 10-1000 Hz.

Also, we don’t need to see the Phase, Mic/Meter or Soundcard curves; they just clutter up the graph.

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Looks like main problem, probably, is that you don’t have the graph axis set right. Look for an icon labeled “Graph Limits” and set it for 45-105 dB top to bottom. If you’re primarily interested in subwoofer response, set the left to right for 10-200 Hz. If you’re really interested in seeing response up to 1 kHz, then post a second graph with a range of 10-1000 Hz.
> 
> Also, we don’t need to see the Phase, Mic/Meter or Soundcard curves; they just clutter up the graph.
> 
> ...


It is not accepting those values. The axis by default has 15 Top and -120 Bottom and when I change it plus close it goes back to the default. The left and Right has 3 decimal places so I am wondering how I would input the values based on the convention. The Left to Right values would not take whole numbers like 10 and 200. The right was change from 200 to 10.001. Not sure if this is a V4 versus V5. I do not mind going to V4 and John had responded that V5 had more automation such as link sending measurement to equalizer and such. I chose V5 so I could just learn one product not knowing how long the beta phase would last.


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

sticknstones said:


> It is not accepting those values. The axis by default has 15 Top and -120 Bottom and when I change it plus close it goes back to the default. The left and Right has 3 decimal places so I am wondering how I would input the values based on the convention. The Left to Right values would not take whole numbers like 10 and 200. The right was change from 200 to 10.001. Not sure if this is a V4 versus V5. I do not mind going to V4 and John had responded that V5 had more automation such as link sending measurement to equalizer and such. I chose V5 so I could just learn one product not knowing how long the beta phase would last.


Sounds like you may have switched to the impulse graph, which has time rather than frequency as an axis. Make sure "SPL & Phase" is selected at the top of the graph.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

sticknstones said:


> ... The axis by default has 15 Top and -120 Bottom and when I change it plus close it goes back to the default. ... The Left to Right values would not take whole numbers like 10 and 200. ...


That's not the behavior I see in v5. 

I cannot enter a value lower than -60dB for the SPL y-axis. The Control remembers the current settings and prompts with these the next time I open the Control. 

If I type a whole number in the lower or upper frequency boxes (y-axis limits), it accepts them and inserts the decimal point. 

Are you sure you are using the current beta version and not an older version? If so, are you running on a Mac and may be seeing a Mac-only bug? 

You should be able to adjust the ranges just by using the left scroll bar, to bring the main SPL curve into view.

Bill


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

laser188139 said:


> That's not the behavior I see in v5.
> 
> I cannot enter a value lower than -60dB for the SPL y-axis. The Control remembers the current settings and prompts with these the next time I open the Control.
> 
> ...


Okay, thanks John and Bill. I will review this once again.

UPDATE:
Yes, I was on the impulse graph (this is the power of web-ex as you can see that real time and coach, it is pretty efficient). It seems that it will take 105 as the top and 45 as the bottom but not the reverse. Is this correct? Okay I reviewed the documentation and it shows the graph axis at 105 top and 45 bottom so I think that is okay.

In the settings panel I noticed in your example that the soundcard is 48K radio button instead of 44.1k which is the default for the Sample rate. Should I use the 48K.

Also are the data elements in the screen shots in the documentation the ones that should be used for Subwoofer or not taken literally.

I am running a IBM Lenovo laptop with XP Prof SP 3. I bought a second soundcard with the SoundBlaster Model SB1090.

Thanks for your help gentlemen.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

sticknstones said:


> ... In the settings panel I noticed in your example that the soundcard is 48K radio button instead of 44.1k which is the default for the Sample rate. Should I use the 48K. ...


You need to use whichever sampling rate was used when building the soundcard calibration file. 

Sometimes, when building the soundcard calibration file, you find that one sampling rate gives "nice" behavior and the other shows too much or too rapid a variation. When building a soundcard, I would try the higher rate first, as it may be more accurate. If you want to be thorough, you can build a soundcard calibration file at each sampling rate, and then choose which looks smoother. 

Bill


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> Okay I reviewed the documentation and it shows the graph axis at 105 top and 45 bottom so I think that is okay.


Yup, you’re good there. :T




> Also are the data elements in the screen shots in the documentation the ones that should be used for Subwoofer or not taken literally.


Not sure what you mean by “data elements.”

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Yup, you’re good there. :T
> 
> 
> Not sure what you mean by “data elements.”
> ...


Okay, data elements for my reference are the different options for each setting so the default in the settings panel for replay buffer is 32K but in the help index with the screen shots it is a different value. So trying to get a sense of what are the recommended settings for Subwoofer et cetera.

By the way please know I appreciate the hospitality on the forum and the willingness you have in helping yet another newbie and still being so cordial in the process.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Hello everyone! Wayne and I spent an hour reviewing the cabling and settings that I was using for my system. There were a few mistakes on my side where I still had the mains on, needed to set the cross-over for each sub the same, and set the dial on the SPL to 80 instead of 70.

We checked the soundcard calibration and it looked fine and also played with the SPL calibration to get the right level.

When we take the measurements though we are getting strange results and here is a graph. I did have V5 but went to V4 then uninstalled all product and reinstalled v4 and still getting the same result.

Wayne can add some more details but he is not sure which means I have no idea why the measurement results look like they do.

Any ideas out there? We did a web-ex where Wayne could see all setting and VU meters as I wanted to make sure I was following the process correctly.

I also would like to thank Wayne for devoting his personal time and experience in helping me to troubleshoot the setup. All cabling is exactly as it is on page 1 of this thread except the soundcard is a SoundBlaster and not the Startech.

Thanks everyone and please let us know if you have any ideas.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

It occurs to me that it looks like an inversion of the SPL meter’s calibration file. I wonder if the cable between the SPL meter and the sound card is bad, or had a bad connection? Or was plugged into the wrong side of your splitter (i.e. the one at the soundcard)?

Regards,
Wayne


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

I'm sure you noticed that your measured curve appears to be the inverse of the mic calibration curve. I see something like that when I try measuring my AVR's preout directly, Audyssey Off, and forget to remove the mic calibration file to reflect that there is no mic in the system. 

Assuming you have not done the same stupid thing, I suspect you are really measuring your loopback connection even though you are trying to measure your speakers. One of those things I've noticed on my laptop connections is that the splitters I used to separate the left/right channels seem to be labeled incorrectly. The right channel comes out on the white connector, and the left on the red connector. Go figure. 

With REW v4, you should have a choice of which channels to use for its input. If my guess is true, you could swap the option so it reads the left channel instead of the right. Or you could do as I did, and flip which channels are used at the splitters. 

Bill


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

The line in on the soundcard has a stereo 3.5m jack and I have a y adapter that converts the 3.5 to two rca. Once rca to the SPL and I changed the cable and the other RCA loop back to the SoundCard out which is a stereo RCA. I have the loopback going into Stereo right and the left channel goes to the Processor.

Here is a unaltered measurement graph after replacing all the RCA cables.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Here is the RS calibration file and just making sure these are the right adjustments;
10.0	-22.09
11.2	-19.25
12.5	-16.83
14.0	-14.69
16.0	-12.66
18.0	-10.61
20.0	-9.05
22.4	-7.64
25.0	-6.49
28.0	-5.33
31.5	-4.41
35.5	-3.61
40.0	-2.99
45.0	-2.41
50.0	-1.97
56.0	-1.64
63.0	-1.34
71.0	-1.14
80.0	-0.96
90.0	-0.86
100.0	-0.80
112.0	-0.82
125.0	-0.82
140.0	-0.88
160.0	-0.93
180.0	-0.95
200.0	-0.99
224.0	-0.94
250.0	-0.97
280.0	-1.00
315.0	-1.04
355.0	-1.04
400.0	-0.95
450.0	-0.92


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

I opened the soundcard calibration and it says V5. I am going to redo it for V4 and post.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

sticknstones said:


> ... Here is a unaltered measurement graph after replacing all the RCA cables.


The graph is screaming out that you are measuring your loopback connection, with a mic calibration file configured. 

You could expand the frequency range to 2Hz-20kHz and it should be even more obvious that your measurement is the mirror image of the mic calibration file. 

If you are having trouble figuring out which side is which in the connections, try disconnecting the loopback portion of the cable. Then your only hot channel input will be from the microphone, and the VU meter should make obvious during the Check Level procedure whether this is left or right.

Good luck,
Bill


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Here is the soundcard calibration file. I just kept the defaults on everything but did check levels again.

Soundcard Calibration data saved by Room EQ Wizard V4.11
Source: Input device not selected, no input selected, Left channel, volume: no control
Format: 256k Log Swept Sine, 1 sweep
Dated: Jun 21, 2010 6:21:05 PM
Sample Rate: 44100

0.000 0.076
0.200 0.076
0.400 0.077
0.600 0.078
0.800 0.079
1.000 0.080
1.200 0.082
1.400 0.083
1.600 0.084
1.800 0.085
2.000 0.086
2.200 0.086
2.400 0.087
2.600 0.087
2.800 0.088
3.000 0.088
3.200 0.089
3.400 0.089
3.600 0.089
3.800 0.089
4.000 0.088
4.200 0.087
4.400 0.087
4.600 0.086
4.800 0.085
5.000 0.084
5.200 0.083
5.400 0.082

Here is the unaltered measurement


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> Here is the unaltered measurement


What Bill meant was take a measurement of a full-range sweep, not merely expand the graph.

I'd also suggest posting a screen shot of your Settings box during the "Set Levels" routine.

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> What Bill meant was take a measurement of a full-range sweep, not merely expand the graph.
> 
> I'd also suggest posting a screen shot of your Settings box during the "Set Levels" routine.
> 
> ...


Okay, thanks Bill and Wayne. I have to work on my real job for a few hours tonight and should get a window tomorrow to work it.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

laser188139 said:


> I'm sure you noticed that your measured curve appears to be the inverse of the mic calibration curve. I see something like that when I try measuring my AVR's preout directly, Audyssey Off, and forget to remove the mic calibration file to reflect that there is no mic in the system.
> 
> Assuming you have not done the same stupid thing, I suspect you are really measuring your loopback connection even though you are trying to measure your speakers. One of those things I've noticed on my laptop connections is that the splitters I used to separate the left/right channels seem to be labeled incorrectly. The right channel comes out on the white connector, and the left on the red connector. Go figure.
> 
> ...


Bill,
In the Getting Started documentation there is a cabling diagram that shows an optional loopback connection which I am using. Are you saying I should not be using this?


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

Yes, at least temporarily. If you disconnect the loopback part, the only signal coming into REW will be from the mic, and it will be clear on which channel the computer is seeing the audio. 

After you've got everything working, you can always re-connect it later if you want to use it with REW v5 for timing information. With REW v4, its only value seemed to be as a substitute for building a soundcard calibration file. It also can serve as a visual confirmation that the signal is getting out of the computer, but only when everything is cabled correctly. 

Bill


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Okay, I eliminated the loopback and here is the measurement graph without alterations. Thoughts? Also, what is this supposed to look like?


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

I still see the same behavior. You may become more convinced if you try the sweep from 4Hz-20kHz; my bet is that it will be the mirror image of the mic cal file all the way. 

If you don't have the loopback connected to the computer input at all, what do you have connected there? Is there any point where the output signal to the receiver can be shorting across to the input to the soundcard?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

No change. Basically, it looks like the signal from the mic (SPL meter) isn't making it into the system. So, troubleshoot all possibilities:

* Try switching the mic to the _other_ jack of your "y" splitter. Just in case the "L" of one is going to the "R" of the other.
* Verify that the cable between the meter and splitter is good.
* Verify that the splitter is good. One side or the other might be bad.

If all that can be verified, I'd suggest that there's a problem with the sound card.

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Okay, I changed the line in to a 3.5m stereo cable where I have a 3.5m stereo into line-in on sound card then have dual rca adapter to the 3.5 and then have a rca y adapter to convert to single rca into the SPL


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

In this other note, under his item #5, I noticed the What U Hear device. I've never seen this on my wife's XP system, but I found that I could enable it under the Control Panel -> Sound -> Record Control, by going into the Preferences. I expect that, if the What You Hear device is enabled here and Selected, this creates an artificial loopback of output to input. 










sticknstones said:


> Okay, I change the line in to a 3.5m stereo into a 3.5m stereo with dual rca and then had a rca y adapter from the SPL all rca stereo to mono into the SPL meter.


That looks like the sort of picture I would expect with some kind of feedback, or duplicate signals coming in out of phase. Very strange.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Okay, Should I change something? I am on my second soundcard so not sure on card being bad but anything is possible.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Try turning off that "What you hear" option.

Regards,
Wayne


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

Wayne, that was my picture, not his. I threw it out there as just a suggestion for what might cause the problem. 

Here's another, very basic, diagnostic test. If you disconnect your connector entirely from the line-in on the soundcard and run the REW sweep, does it still see the input? If it still detects an audio for a sweep, that would confirm that there is a software loopback happening somewhere in the soundcard/driver/Windows. 

Bill


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Basically, if you were able to generate a calibration file, it should work. All you’d have to do is remove the loopback cable from the sound card and connect the mic and AVR to the same connections.

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Basically, if you were able to generate a calibration file, it should work. All you’d have to do is remove the loopback cable from the sound card and connect the mic and AVR to the same connections.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


ok I changed laptops and started over. Here is first graph. Thoughts?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Looks like we're getting somewhere now. :T Change the graph axis for 45-105 dB vertical and 10-200 Hz horizontal and we'll know for sure. Also, you can take out the sound card and mic calibration traces - we don't need to see those anymore.

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Looks like we're getting somewhere now. :T Change the graph axis for 45-105 dB vertical and 10-200 horizontal and we'll know for sure. Also, you can take out the sound card and mic calibration traces - we don't need to see those anymore.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Okay, I used my wifes laptop so I have to wait till tomorrow to hijack it again.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

sticknstones said:


> Okay, I used my wifes laptop so I have to wait till tomorrow to hijack it again.


I think loading multiple soundcards did not go so well on my laptop. I went ahead and went into the bios and set the default configurations and will reload. I at least think my cables, soundcards are okay and the aberration was my laptop.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

I went into my laptop BIOS last night and changed the configs to default. This morning I tried again.

How is this looking? Does this look good enough to send to BFD?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> How is this looking?


 Hard to say. Switch the graph back to LOG mode.




> Does this look good enough to send to BFD?


 Dunno, still looks a bit strange, but we'll be able to tell better after you switch the graph to LOG. Looks like you might need to do some experiment with placement before equalizing (if that's an option). 

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

I did the soundcard again and it looks good then did this measurement. Not sure how you read these puppies. I cannot find a graph switch for log??


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

sticknstones said:


> I did the soundcard again and it looks good then did this measurement. Not sure how you read these puppies. I cannot find a graph switch for log??


The log button is the Freq Axis button in the upper right. This graph is in log mode, unlike the earlier one. You can tell this by looking at the x-axis and seeing that the vertical grid is not even but is logarithmic, e.g., the distance from 10 to 100 is the same as the distance from 100 to 1000. 

You forgot to use the Limits button, though, to change the X and Y axis limits to the recommended ones. That's why the graph extends to 20kHz, and why you don't see the vertical detail that you would expect were the axis 45dB-105dB. 

Something looks very weird about the narrow lumpy behavior. Were they higher frequencies, I would suspect comb filtering between two speakers. 

Bill


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Hello everyone. I have been trying to get my IBM laptop to work with REW and think I caused a problem when I loaded my first soundcard. I was getting an echo from my internal mic. I tried some different things including updating the driver on the internal soundcard, changing bios to default and then today I chose to do a system restore to a date before I did all of this.

After doing the restore to June 5th. I reinstalled the external soundcard and repeated the process.

Here is the graphs from tonight. Is this looking better? I did notice that the USB hub I was using created problems and had to eliminate it and then got these graphs. Thoughts?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Looking pretty good! I’d suggest changing the crossover point to the 110 Hz that you’re using, and running “Fine Peaks” from only 95-100 Hz down. No sense running it all the way up to 200 if your sub crosses over at 110. 

Oh – don’t mean to sound like a broken record, but we like to see the sub graphs at 10-200 Hz horizontal and 45-105 dB vertical. 

Kinda surprising that those two subs are spent at only 32 Hz.. :scratch:

Regards,
Wayne


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Hello Wayne and all the shacksters,

I am still a bit lost on the Behringer role and I am a pretty bright fella but this is new and I am trying to learn it properly. When I read the manual update is seems like you use one of the 12 filters to correct a certain frequency and adjust based on REW information.

For some reason, I was thinking that when you send a measurement file to the Behringer and choose L, Preset 1 or so, that all the adjustments go into that preset?

When I do send to Behringer I choose L, then a preset # and the Red horizontal LED keeps blinking forever. I see the store light blink then go out on its own.

I am still not sure how the REW data is supposed to be applied to the Behringer and I have the 1194. I read the various threads in the BFD section but I do not see much in the process and it seems that folks are embarrassed if they cannot figure it out and details are highly presumptive by other posters.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

I’ve never tried the automatic EQing. I assume you have a MIDI – USB interface connected? 

Some of the BFD's presets have the filters set up for feedback processing, I think those blinking lights may have something to do with that. Try using preset #5, as it has all filters preset for parametric (indicated as “PA” in the display when you push the “Filter Mode” button). If you want to use another preset, you might need to change all the filters to “PA” (instead of “SI” or “AU”) before sending REW’s presets.

Anyway – see if that works.

Regards,
Wayne


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Some of the BFD's presets have the filters set up for feedback processing, I think those blinking lights may have something to do with that. Try using preset #5, as it has all filters preset for parametric (indicated as “PA” in the display when you push the “Filter Mode” button). If you want to use another preset, you might need to change all the filters to “PA” (instead of “SI” or “AU”) before sending REW’s presets.


REW sets all the filters for the chosen preset to parametric itself. Make sure the channel and preset being downloaded to is the same one that is selected for use though! Also check that the firmware is V1.4 or later, see this thread.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

JohnM said:


> REW sets all the filters for the chosen preset to parametric itself. Make sure the channel and preset being downloaded to is the same one that is selected for use though! Also check that the firmware is V1.4 or later, see this thread.


Hey guys. Yes I have the USP midi and bought one of the recommended products from the documentation which was the M-Audio. Not sure what firmware version is on my BFD and it is brand new but I will check.

Update: I checked the firmware and I am 1.4. I put the jog wheel in the -- position, powered down. Pressed Filter Select button while I powered up and LED reads 1.4.


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## sticknstones (May 17, 2010)

Can anyone explain why the correction values for the RS SPL meter are all negative? Everything I have been reading including on the Shack have plus values in the low range.

10.0	-22.09
11.2	-19.25
12.5	-16.83
14.0	-14.69
16.0	-12.66
18.0	-10.61
20.0	-9.05
22.4	-7.64
25.0	-6.49
28.0	-5.33
31.5	-4.41
35.5	-3.61
40.0	-2.99
45.0	-2.41
50.0	-1.97
56.0	-1.64
63.0	-1.34
71.0	-1.14
80.0	-0.96
90.0	-0.86
100.0	-0.80
112.0	-0.82
125.0	-0.82
140.0	-0.88
160.0	-0.93
180.0	-0.95
200.0	-0.99
224.0	-0.94
250.0	-0.97
280.0	-1.00
315.0	-1.04
355.0	-1.04
400.0	-0.95
450.0	-0.92

Trying to learn here and looking at other sites. Here is a link to a thread that has multiple links to other sites with their calibration corrections. I am not sure why the RS File that I downloaded from the downloads area is all minus values. 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=505236

Seems like the roll-off values are negative and the corrections positive. Please address from an educational perspective.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

They’re both variations on a theme, actually. Our calibration file reflects the meter’s actual response at a given frequency – that it’s down 9 dB @ 20Hz, for instance. It’s the same as what you’d see if there were a published frequency response graph of the meter. REW adds 9 dB at 20 Hz to compensate for the discrepancy.

The positive values you see elsewhere are telling you that you need to add 9 dB to whatever SPL reading you generate in your room at 20 Hz – because the meter is -9 dB at 20 Hz.

Either way, 9 dB is ultimately added to the meter’s response at 20 Hz (with appropriate adjustments at the other 1/6-octave frequencies as well). So it's just like you said: The roll-off values are negative, and the corrections are positive. REW does the corrections for its measurements, and you do it yourself for yours. Make sense?

BTW, all the ballyhoo you see about the RS meters being “inaccurate” is mostly just that. They have A- and C-weighting curves built in, both of which roll out the low frequencies at a defined point and rate. Only meters with an unweighted setting have flat response. The graph below depicts the A-D weighting scales. If anything, the RS meter is inaccurate on the top end, not the bottom. Most correction tables available on the ‘net show it’s 0 dB or so at 16 kHz, not down 8 dB, as a correct C-weighting scale requires.










Regards,
Wayne


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