# Velodyne/SVS/My Room



## pegasusxls (Jun 3, 2008)

I am new to this forum.My room is 24'8" x 22'6" x 11.5'. there are eight 10'windows or doors,all covered with wooden shutters, three wooden 10' doors and one 6'8" 10 pane French door.I have Thiel CS6 speakers driven by two Classe CAM-350s.I want to add a sub woofer to help the Thiels and generally enhance the sound stage.WAF dictates that the sub go in an existing cabinet, H23" W18" D 24".Two channel listening is my main usage though we do have a 50" flat screen and I have wired for a 7.1 surround system.I do intend to add some bass traps.I have been very impressed with Velodyne subs and am leaning towards the DD 15.I have never herd SVS subs and would appreciate some comparisons.

Thanks
pegasus


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I think if you're asking about whether you should go with SVS or Velodyne, most seem to think that SVS offers a better bang for the buck.

I'm not sure about putting the sub in the cabinet though; that's going to do some weird things to your sound, and really limit your ability to get the most out of your sound. You'll want to make sure your ports are aimed in a way that gives them plenty of room to breathe. Still, no sense in blowing against the wind (SAF=wind).

It's also going to limit your sub options. With your measurements, you're basically looking at the SVS PB10-NSD or SB12-Plus.


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## pegasusxls (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks Marshall
I am looking for all input.If I move the sub out of the cabinet,I still would have limited placements,however I could go up in size!The only thing the DD series offers is automated room adjustments,in the past I have not found these all that helpful.
pegasus


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## russ.will (May 10, 2006)

The DD series automated adjustment is rubbish. It does not target problem frequencies; it merely adjusts the filter nearest in the hope it might have some effect.

On the other hand, manual tuning is extremely easy to do due to the excellent user interface and the fact that once the sub is plumbed in, you simply need to plug the mic in and off you go - no faffing with external sound cards, lap tops and sundry wiring.

The DD15s I've played with have been excellent music subs, with a very tight dry character to the sound. For movies, you can always wind the servo's effect down for a bit more clout low down at the expense of accuracy, but it won't wobble the room like a PB13 will. If that is true for my typically European sized 16x12x8' room, then that'll be doubly true in yours.

Incidentally, the 13 Ultra is the only big SVS I really rate with music as opposed to with movies, where they're all good at their respective price points. I had the old 12U in my room and it never seemed quite nimble enough, which made the music always feel like it was dragging it's feet slightly. The 13U is simply excellent in all respects, size excepted and remember, you can always add an SMS-1 (the EQ guts of the DD series), with the pairing coming up well short of DD money. You then have the advantage of presets for music and movies all accessed from the armchair with a remote control.

Russell


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## pegasusxls (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks for your input Russell.Forgetting the DD and using the SMS-1 for adjustment,which sub would be more musical,the PB13 or a Velodyne 18?

pegasus


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

Either sub will do great job with music. Which one would sound better to you with music would be tough to know. As far as home theater goes, there is no real comparison: The SVS would be the runaway favorite. If you must oblige your wife, however, neither the SVS PB13 or the Velo DD18 can fit your cabinet. The DD15 _may_ fit. 

I'd suggest also taking a look at the JL Audio f112 or f113 Fathom. Those are excellent compact subs and are typically said to outperform the Velodynes.


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## pegasusxls (Jun 3, 2008)

The JL's look very good!I do always try to get bang for the buck,however the very high end stuff becomes affordable second hand.I have bought all my gear used or made it myself so for the most part I aim for the stars.

I have always thought that sub placement was not critical and that one big some would always sound better than two smaller subs of the same make and design.........perhaps I need more experience with subs?If location is important then size is not as important but looks would be.

Thanks 
pegasus


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

Location is important. Unfortunately it's very difficult to predict what the best location is until you actually try it. Size matters too. Typically if you can deal with a bigger sub, you can get more bang for the buck such as the PB13. If not, to get great sound in a smaller package it's going to cost more.


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## Conrad. (Oct 30, 2006)

My room is slightly smaller than yours 20x16x12. I've got a Velodyne and, with the doors shut I'm getting +-3db from 15Hz to 100Hz. That's from a DD10. While what Russel says is true, the auto EQ isn't wonderful (it doesn't seem to do enough sweeps, it kind of just gives up) it's a pretty good starting point. Also, the headroom on a DD is unbelieveable. Normally, you wouldn't want to boost low frequencies too much but with a DD, you can load all six sliders to their maximum setting at 15Hz without fear.

A friend of mine has a DD15 in an open plan living dining room that opens into a kitchen and a conservatory. Playing test sweeps made one of his lights fall out of his kitchen ceiling. I realise that's hardly an Ilka spec test, but the things a beast. It's also suprisingly musical. Listening to music with it paired with a set of B&W 705s, you can't hear it; until you turn it off, they you really know it's gone.

I've heard good things about the fathoms and the SVS ultras. But I've also heard bad things about them; I've never heard anything bad about the Velodynes (outside the price).


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## pegasusxls (Jun 3, 2008)

I am now looking at REL.I would never have found REL were not for the input of fellow audiophiles.The interesting aspect,to me,of the REL is it does not connect through the LFE but rather it receives the same input as the main speakers and should, in theory, integrate better.My main goal is improved two channel listening.The JL 113 also seems ,from what I read to integrate very well.Velodyne seems to be very much a partner in this pack,however as I researched JL and REL SVS did not seem to be there.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

pegasusxls said:


> ... The interesting aspect,to me,of the REL is it does not connect through the LFE but rather it receives the same input as the main speakers and should, in theory, integrate better....


I think most subwoofer (if not all) have this option ... you choose to either do the connection from the sub/LFE output on AVR or connect them from speaker terminals :yes:


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## 1artist (Jul 16, 2008)

I was looking at Velo's and SVS's for a 30 x 30 room. I bought a REL Storm III first. The REL connects through the high level front main amps (both +'s and only 1 - lead). I also have my Sony TV line level audio outs connected to the REL. The TV pre-outs are "Y"'d to Mackie 824's and the REL. The REL has separate volume levels for both high and line level inputs with auto-on for both. It's excellent for music. Crossed over close to my fronts, it blends with my mains (they play down to 34 Hz) or the Mackies like different instruments naturally blend playing the same notes together (like a well-behaved bass choir). These tests are great. That SVS 13 Ultra is looking fine for my home theater and music reproduction from all I've read. I may need a pair to load a 10K sf room. Some DIY mastepieces look awesome...Thanks!


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## pegasusxls (Jun 3, 2008)

My main go down to 27Hz I believe the new Rel Stentor goes down to 11Hz,I am thinking that if I add a Sentor the Thiel CS6s will share at least some of the bottom bass.I hope to find out soon just how well this works.


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## 1artist (Jul 16, 2008)

I haven't heard the REL Stentor. 11 Hz out of a musical REL is awesome. Based on how my Storm III musically integrates with the mains, you'll should be very happy and surprised over and over again. 

To me, REL's are more like high end "low bass instruments" that naturally fill-in the front mains' soundstage. They're not like subwoofers designed to reproduce synthetic, low frequency movie THX sound tracks. I have read alot and know some people who can afford almost anything. Many openly admit that REL's are or worse, WERE (after they sold them), their favorite subwoofers for blending speakers strickly in music. 

For the money (I have a 10,000 cubic foot space and could use more home theater SPL than a smaller REL can produce), a pair of SVS Ultra 13's connected to the LFE circuit should be a very musical match with my Storm III and fronts. Clear, viseral slam impact is very important to me as the volume increases. 

My goal: At low volume - elegant and everthing's there. At higher volumes, astonishing and clear. There's alot of excellent gear out there. The "keepers" that consistant hold prices in the secondary market say alot. Relatively perfect used REL's and Ultra's are both difficult to locate and the price stays up. I'm a great believer in matching subs, too, when needed to pressurize a larger room equally - even REL's hooked separately to left and right mains.


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