# My first graph!Whatta Mess!



## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

well here is my first graph using rew.assuming i calibrated everything properly.
My room is 23x23x8.
Hsu Vtf Mk3 Ho with turbo and mbm12,Ho is front left of tv.mbm12 is behind sofa slightly to the right.
Crossover in receiver is set to 80 hz.HO xover is set at about 48 hz xover in.mbm xover at 80 hz with xover out.both connected via y cable adapter to sub out to yamaha rx-v1800.
I have 2 bass traps on rear wall,hope to add more soon.
What can i do to improve response,and what about waynes hous curve?i am intriqued by this?
sorry i dont know how i lost key,light green subs only.blue subs and right front,purple subs and left front.dark green both subs and both mains.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Looks like the cross between the MBM and main sub is incorrect, or the phase between the two is canceling........

Test each individually and see what they look like. 

brucek


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Try removing the turbo and try the HO in max output and max extension modes. Looks like you may be better off without the turbo and in max output mode to help that major sag.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Thanks, I will try each sub separately,then with turbo removed.
I was going to test each sub last night but it was getting late by the time i got everything up and running,i just wanted to make sure i could post a graph before bedtime.
Ultimately i want to be able to take full range measurements (i know,new spl meter)and add the bfd.
I downloaded the .cal file for my meter, loaded that and ran the loopback test thing with the right channels connected,should i have done one or the other?
Btw,between you two and Sonny and Wayne,(and all others on this bpard)i have high hopes that i can actually get my system up to snuff!Why on earth you guys offer all this help without ever asking for credit card info is beyond me:neener:and no im not supplying credit card info.:neener:


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> should i have done one or the other?


The left channel is never used. You only use the right channel.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

I mean should i have loaded the .cal file or done the loopback test to calibrate instead of both procedures.
The diagram shows hooking up the left channels for loopback test only but another post said use the right channels for loopback.Then connect to spl meter and avr.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> I mean should i have loaded the .cal file or done the loopback test to calibrate instead of both procedures.


You need to do both for measuring. The cal file is for correcting the meter readings. You should have seen a very flat line when you did the loopback. Try posting your loopback graph so brucek can verify it is correct.

Here is my example:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/12622-rew-noob-6.html#post117475



jdeanmc said:


> The diagram shows hooking up the left channels for loopback test only but another post said use the right channels for loopback.Then connect to spl meter and avr.


You use both channels for the loopback and then disconnect the left for measuring. After you have done the loopback, you do not need to use the left any more. It just stays disconnected.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

You use both channels for the loopback and then disconnect the left for measuring. After you have done the loopback, you do not need to use the left any more. It just stays disconnected.[/QUOTE]



brucek said:


> The left channel is never used. You only use the right channel.
> 
> brucek


I only hooked up the right and did the loopback.i never connected the left channels to anything


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I mean should i have loaded the .cal file or done the loopback test to calibrate instead of both procedures.
> The diagram shows hooking up the left channels for loopback test only but another post said use the right channels for loopback.


I gotta tell ya, I rue the day that the *optional* ability to use the left channel for calibration was added to REW. It causes nothing but confusion, while adding very little to its capabilities.

Here's the deal.

Initially REW only used the soundcard calibration file method to compensate for soundcard response imperfection.
This method allows you to choose either the left or right channel to use for measuring. Only one channel is allowed. Once the channel is selected, a loopback cable is attached to that channel and the soundcard cal file is created and saved. Then before removing, to prove its effectiveness, a measurement is taken of that channel and the result should obviously be flat (since the saved soundcard cal file is in place). Then the loopback is removed and that channel is used exclusively for measuring. The other channel is never used.
This method is still the best and preferred method to use.

An alternate optional method was added that didn't use a soundcard calibration routine, but rather used a permanently installed loopback on the left channel, with the right channel used for measuring. The left channel would provide the calibration data on a dynamic basis. You needed to check a box to use this method. It added the feature to allow you to measure real speaker distances.

Unfortunately this newer "Use Left channel as calibration reference" causes more confusion than it should. I don't recommend it because it increases noise and slows the computer somewhat.

Straight?

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Straight as an arrow,So i did this correctly?How'd that happen!!!
Thanks for the clarification.
The wife will probably call in the men with the padded van if i try to take any sub measurements tonight,but ill get back on it maybe tomorrow night and post just the ho and then just the mbm measurements.
I hope to get the galaxy 140 spl soon,what bfd do i need if i want to control the system full range?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> I hope to get the galaxy 140 spl soon,what bfd do i need if i want to control the system full range?


The bfd (DSP1124P) should only be used on subs. Not mains. You can try it on the mains, but it is very likely to introduce noise.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> Why on earth you guys offer all this help without ever asking for credit card info is beyond me :neener: and no im not supplying credit card info.:neener:


Well, we do accept donations! 

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

There you are!!
I will take care of that!
I do need your help with this hard knee house curve business when i start getting this mess straightened out:yes:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> what bfd do i need if i want to control the system full range?


You might want to first take measurements of the main speakers to see if you even _need _full range equalization, before you jump off and start buying gear. 

Full-range equalization can be a pricey proposition, because it requires an equalizer for each channel you wish to EQ (that would be a minimum of two additional units, even if you only want to EQ the front three channels). In addition, outboard amplification is typically required as well, unless you already have separates.

Regards,
Wayne


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Full-range equalization can be a pricey proposition....


Wayne was kind enough to warn me about this up front. It did not stop me from sourcing three Yamaha YDP2006's. Santa brought the third for X-mas. :bigsmile:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Well that does sound like more than i want to get into.I do however love to buy gear:bigsmile:I have lots of things i dont know how to use.
Anyway,that does sound reasonable.I will still need the galaxy 140 to measure full range will i not?
At this point my priority ,i guess is to get the equipment i already have as well as my horrible room, setup as best as i can via placement ,settings and maybe bass traps.
Thats why im taken by a thread i read of yours about the house curve and the difference it made in the overall fullness of sound.I was convinced that i needed another Vtf ho because of room size but now im thinking that there is alot of potential left in what i already have.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> I will still need the galaxy 140 to measure full range will i not?


Yup. Even if you don't equalize the mains, it's never bad to know what you have. Often simple placement adjustments can make a difference...

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Well great,now i want those!!I am a big fan of Yamaha products,My Avr is the Yamaha Rx-v1800 and i do make my living with Yamaha M/C ATV and Pwc's


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Yea, the YDP's are great. Wayne pointed me in their direction and they have worked out great. They are just as easy as the bfd to use and have a cleaner sound and are well built. They make the bfd feel like a piece of tin foil compared to these.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

O.K here we go again.
1st graph Ho Only
2nd graph Mbm12 only
3rd graph both subs on with Ho phase set to 0
4th Graph both subs on with Ho phase set to 180
5th graph soundcard calibration file


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Need to see the sound card graph at full range (0-20,000Hz).

Is the HO in ME or MO mode?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

the ho is in max ext.with turbo on.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Sound card graph looks great.

Switch the HO to max output and remove the turbo.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

ill do that and have a new graph momentarily.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

sorry fist graph was with mains.second graph is Ho only


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Looks like you need to try some different locations for the HO. Usually by having it in MO,that should raise the output in the 30-40Hz section.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

i'll try that.This Thing has travelled miles around this room!but not since ive had rew.
Ill star moving it taking measurements and post another raph when it looks like ive kade any improvements.
Thanks for your help.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

No problem. I think moving is going to be the best solution for that 30-40Hz sag.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

how about this?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Much better. Now add the MBM to see the whole picture. After that, you can try adding the turbo back on.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Both subs on Ho ME no turbo


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Looks really good. When you get an eq, we can start fine tuning it.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

both subs Ho in MO with turbo


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Turbo is really boosting the low end! Your room though is messing with your response. :sad2:


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> Both subs on Ho ME no turbo


Can you redo this graph, but with the target line added?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

how do i add target line?do you want turbo on or off?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> how do i add target line?do you want turbo on or off?


There is a check box just below the graph that says "Target". Turbo off. Same graph in post #31 but with the target line added.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

i dont have the target option?just all the differnet graphs i can overlay.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> i dont have the target option?just all the differnet graphs i can overlay.


Click on the "Filter Adjust" tab at the top. It gives you just a single response graph and you will see the "Target" box at the bottom. Unclick the Cal boxes and the "Filters+Target" box.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

o.k..i have this under the filter adjust screen(i was under the measured screen)this is ho/mbm/mains


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

There you go. Now just redo the graph in post #31.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

I guess i deleted that graph to make room for new one.Here is the ho ME with no turbo and the mbm


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Is the graph in post #40 this same graph, but with the mains turned on? If so, I would try moving some more to get rid of that null at 55Hz.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Yes it is.
The Ho xover is set at 50hz and the Mbm handles from 50 to 80 hz.Should i play with the mbm placement or still move the Ho?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

You could try a couple of things....

1. Play with the phase settings of the MBM and HO.
2. Try lowering the xo on the HO to 45Hz. I have read that many have had better response with it set lower.
3. Moving the MBM.

I would start with the easiest 1st.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

I did change the phase on both the ho and mbm and it seemed to get worse,so i have them both set with the phase set to 0.
Tonight i will play with the xover on the Ho and move the mbm around.
I think so far Rew (and you)have helped me determine that im better off without the turbo in my room.
One thing i am confused about.I have ran the Ypao automatic setup in my receiver and have not changed anything there before i started running Rew.Should i be concerned with this?The best i remember ypao cut my sub down a few db at 31.5 hz.Now that im moving subs around,i would think at some point ill need to rerun ypance this is ran i cant change the parametric eq settings it provides,i can only manually change settings if i dont use the parametric eq and use the 9 band or whatever eq

Thanks again for all your help.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Since you have moved things some, I would try the phase again. They do not have to be the same. I think it is a quick and easy test.

In regards to the ypao (what ever that is?), I would try and get things a flat as possible by moving, xo, etc. and then rerun it. This will help show you if it even is helping.

"Once this is ran i cant change the parametric eq settings it provides,i can only manually change settings if i dont use the parametric eq and use the 9 band or whatever eq"

Can you clarify this a little more? What eq?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

My receiver .Yamaha Rx-v1800 has the ypao,its a deal where you hook up its mike and it sets all the distance,levels and so forth,it also has a built in parametric eq,but you can only use it by running the ypao software,then you cant change any of its setting.i do usually go back and check,change the levels manually but you cant make changes to the parametric eq settings.you can use the "other"eq?8or 9 band instead of the parametric and with it you can change settings i think,ive never tried it.from what i understand the ypao does pretty well on all speakers except subs.
I guess to answer your question more direct is that ypao is like denons Audyssey.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Gotcha! I guess the "other eq" is more like a graphic and not a parametric eq?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

That is correct.The graphic eq you can adjust the setting but you cant on the parametric.
Ill try to tweak a little more tonight,ill post another graph if i can get that 55 hz dip out.I seem to only get that dip with the mains on.Its not there with just the Ho and Mbm.i would think cancellation between the mains and subs but i wouldnt think the mains would be playing down to 55 hz with the avr xover set at 80?ill keep you posted


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

You would be surprised what your highs are still doing, even with a 80Hz xo. Here is an old example of what mine were doing with a 80Hz xo.:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/12622-rew-noob-7.html#post117847

Notice the major hump at 50Hz.?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> .I have ran the Ypao automatic setup in my receiver and have not changed anything there before i started running Rew.Should i be concerned with this?The best i remember ypao cut my sub down a few db at 31.5 hz.Now that im moving subs around,i would think at some point ill need to rerun ypance this is ran i cant change the parametric eq settings it provides,i can only manually change settings if i dont use the parametric eq and use the 9 band or whatever eq.


I own the RXV2700, after working with REW and comparing YPAO setup and PEQ reset to flat, I decided to reset what YPAO did to the sub PEQ ...try both and see which one looks better in your case.

After you find the right place, re-run YPAO and compare the response using YPAO PEQ set up and PEQ reset to flat.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

I do run the eq flat,ive tried front,flat and neutral but always seem to go back to flat.
Ill try playing around to get that 55 hz dip out as best i can and then ill run ypao again and see what it does


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> I do run the eq flat,ive tried front,flat and neutral but always seem to go back to flat.
> Ill try playing around to get that 55 hz dip out as best i can and then ill run ypao again and see what it does


Let me clarify: When you run YPAO you have some options (I'm sure they're the same Front, Flat and Natural), but after YPAO finish the setup you will see that it applied some filters to each channel, when I said reset to flat; I was talking about those filters that YPAO applied ...for example: if YPAO apllied [email protected] and [email protected] reset those to flat in my AVR I have the option to reset everything, or you can change those number to 0.00 ...do a graph with EQ and no-EQ and see which one looks better :yes:.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Thats the thing you cant change anything in the rx-v1800 after it sets the filters.From what i understand you can in the rx-v3800 but not the 1800,unless you download a program called receiver manager and hookup a laptop to the 1800(something that i know nothing about).This is one downside of saving a little cash and buying the 1800 instead of opting for the 3800!!


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

O.K.i re-ran ypao to flat set both the mbm and Ho to 180 phase re ran rew and got this


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Does anyone see anything terribly wrong with these settings in conjuction with the graph above?
in the avr(yamaha rx-v1800)...
lfe/bas out set to swfr,all speakers set to small,crossover set to 80 hz,subphase set to normal,lfe level set to -8db(this is supposed to only matter if bitstreaming a signal)dynamic range set to min/auto.

The Hsu Vtf Mk3 Ho no turbo set to mo...
volume set to 10 3/4,crossover set to 45 hz and in,phase 180,switch at 22hz 2 ports open no turbo.

Mbm12 set to...
volume 10 1/2,phase 180,crossover 180 and out. 
Both subs connected to sub out via y cable.
speakers are klipsch rf3II,s they have dual 8 inch woofers and can go down to 34 hz.
I cant get impressed with my setup,just watched part of independance day and with planes exploding and so forth it just seems im missing alot of bass.I also switch to stereo mode and go to some xm sat stations on direct tv and the same thing.
I know im missing something somewhere but i dont know what?Just not that impressive,we have a sony dreamsystem in our bedroom and its sounds better than my"mancave"
any suggestions?
if i were sitting in a null or had alot of cancellation issues going on with room acoustics wouldn't it show in the graph above?does the graph look o.k.?
thanks in advance


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Looks fine to me. You’ve eliminated the nulls you were seeing in Posts #33 and #40, as well as the big bump you had below 20 hz. Equalize with a BFD, maybe dial in a house curve, and you'll be rockin'.

Regards,
Wayne


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

jdeanmc said:


> Does anyone see anything terribly wrong with these settings in conjuction with the graph above?
> in the avr(yamaha rx-v1800)...
> lfe/bas out set to swfr,all speakers set to small,crossover set to 80 hz,subphase set to normal,lfe level set to -8db(this is supposed to only matter if bitstreaming a signal)dynamic range set to min/auto.
> 
> ...


Do the impulse response windows look fairly solid in color? Was there good bass in the music at the end of the movie?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Looks fine to me. You’ve eliminated the nulls you were seeing in Posts #33 and #40, as well as the big bump you had below 20 hz. Equalize with a BFD, maybe dial in a house curve, and you'll be rockin'.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Well its about time you chimed in:foottap:I think your house curve formula is exactly what i need!!i was ready to order a bfd 1124,then i thought i might need a 2496 with a galaxy 140 so i could go a little higher in freq.Then you got me thinking about the yamaha 2006!would the cheaper 1124 get me by o.k.?i worry that my mains(98 db per watt)are just overpowering the highs vs the lowend in my room.
were is sonny btw?he's also from alabammy i noticed. i was thinking id just show up,kidnap him,get him to look this over in person,then just send him home(with a big green egg steak dinner in him of course!!!):yay2:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

thewire said:


> Do the impulse response windows look fairly solid in color? Was there good bass in the music at the end of the movie?


i dont even know what that means?i barely got this contraption working!
I just watched about 10 mins of the movie to see if i had gained anything by ditching the turbo moving the subs for better response and rerunning ypao.


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

This is the impulse response tab.









This is a decent looking impulse response.









This is bad.









It will show you if there is distortion. That movie did not seem to have much bass when I watched it also. If I remember right lots of people were complaining about much of it except for the scene with the air force one flying. I always like to check the impulse last each time I setup things sort of as a sanity check. 

That looks like it will be a nice house curve to give a try.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

i gottcha.ill try to re measure tommarrow night and check that.thanks


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> I cant get impressed with my setup,just watched part of independance day and with planes exploding and so forth it just seems im missing alot of bass....
> I know im missing something somewhere but i dont know what?Just not that impressive,we have a sony dreamsystem in our bedroom and its sounds better than my"mancave"...
> if i were sitting in a null or had alot of cancellation issues going on with room acoustics wouldn't it show in the graph above?does the graph look o.k.?


Did you take the measurement in your sweet spot??? ...what the graph shows is what you hear.

We're in the same boat, after I build my Sonosub and calibrated everything it sounds different, I read that we have to get used to the sound again, before we had a lot of distortion and that's why we had a better sound in the lower levels; in my case I noticed that any explosion, gunshot, car crash, etc. sounds good, but the overall sound is not like before ....


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Sonnie lives in Luverne.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> I think your house curve formula is exactly what i need!!i was ready to order a bfd 1124,then i thought i might need a 2496 with a galaxy 140 so i could go a little higher in freq.Then you got me thinking about the yamaha 2006!would the cheaper 1124 get me by o.k.?


The 1124 is fine for subs. If you want to tackle the mains, the 2496 or the Yamaha would be better. You'll also need outboard amplification if you want to EQ the mains. As you can see, mains EQ gets pricey in a hurry, so it's best to get some full-range graphs to see if it would be any benefit to you. It might be cheaper to just get a new receiver that has built-in auto EQ.




> i worry that my mains(98 db per watt)are just overpowering the highs vs the lowend in my room.


Typically that's nothing more than a calibration issue - adjusting the sub's level to blend with the mains.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Yes,i did measure in the sweet spot.
I guess where im disappointed is ill buy a cd on occasion,play it in the car and say"boy this sounds good!i cant wait to get home and play it downstairs!"and more often than not it sounds better in the car.I dont have a oy car system either,its all stock!
Im going to try to measure tonight and post the impulse graph.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Sonnie lives in Luverne.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


WOW!you really threw him to the wolves in a hurry!!!:teeth:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The 1124 is fine for subs. If you want to tackle the mains, the 2496 or the Yamaha would be better. You'll also need outboard amplification if you want to EQ the mains. As you can see, mains EQ gets pricey in a hurry, so it's best to get some full-range graphs to see if it would be any benefit to you. It might be cheaper to just get a new receiver that has built-in auto EQ.
> 
> 
> Typically that's nothing more than a calibration issue - adjusting the sub's level to blend with the mains.
> ...


your really telling me things that i want to hear.i was dead set on adding another 3.3 but i think once this is all calibrated properly i have enough sub for my room.
My receiver does have auto eq,so i think ill get the 1124 and let the receiver try to handle the mains.
I have high hopes that once i get the 1124 in the system you can help me out with this mess,i need the house curve!!!!as well as better blend betwen subs and the mains(i think)
Thanks again.
Dean


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

o.k.so here is everything with impulse graph included.
1st ho only then impulse.2nd mbm only then impulse,3rd both subs then impulse,4th both subs and mains then impule.So what is this telling me?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The 1124 is fine for subs. If you want to tackle the mains, the 2496 or the Yamaha would be better. You'll also need outboard amplification if you want to EQ the mains. As you can see, mains EQ gets pricey in a hurry, so it's best to get some full-range graphs to see if it would be any benefit to you. It might be cheaper to just get a new receiver that has built-in auto EQ.
> 
> 
> Typically that's nothing more than a calibration issue - adjusting the sub's level to blend with the mains.
> ...


if i were to purchase the yamaha ydp 2006 over the bdp1124 (strictly over brand loyalty issue)could you help me set up subs with it?i notice rew has the 1124 as an option,so i worry with the 2006 i would need more support setting it up?is ther any advantage of the 1124 over the 2006 as far as setting up subs?


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Looks normal in the impulse response windows to me. Your soundcard looks to be introducing some noise (higher measurement before 0) into the results, espically on the MBM, but distortion (spikes before 0 caused by soundcard) looks low enough. I might try reducing the input on the mic some to see what happens with the MBM. I would say it is about right and fair to say they are accurate results and your not introducing any significant amount of distortion into your signal chain to the speakers, but I will see if anyone with more experience has to say something else about this. :innocent:


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> if i were to purchase the yamaha ydp 2006 over the bdp1124 (strictly over brand loyalty issue)could you help me set up subs with it?i notice rew has the 1124 as an option,so i worry with the 2006 i would need more support setting it up?is ther any advantage of the 1124 over the 2006 as far as setting up subs?


Yes, we could help you set up a YDP2006. You would just use REW's generic filter settings, plug those into the YDP and fine tune per the response graph. The 1124 offers 12 parametric filters per channel versus 6 on the YDP. The 1124 also offers more options on bandwidth and Q versus the YDP. On the other had, the YDP offers high/low pass filters, shelving filters, and time delay options.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

i just found a behringer dsp 1100 locally at a pawn shop.Will this meet my needs?what is the difference between the 1100 and the 1124?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

o.k. so i think im going to buy the dsp 1100.so other than the adapters that i see i need,is there anything else i need to connect two subs to the bfd?my 3.3 ho and mbm12 are now connected via a y cable to the sub out of the reciever.so how do i calibrate /eq each sub once i connect it to the bfd 1100?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

You will do it like you have only one sub.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

O.k.so i did pick up the Dsp1100 up today at lunch.
Ill try to get it hooked up tonight or over the weekend and see what kinda mess that i can make with this thing.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

ill hook the bfd up tomorrow night,just didnt have time tonight.
So im in need of any help available.
I saw a post a few weeks ago with pretty basic step by step instructions on applying filters,now i cant locate it.Im not sure i have a total grasp on where exactly i need to apply the filters,i do know i want as few as possible,i also want a house curve as ive always felt the bass was lacking.
Where is the thread?
Or if you prefer ,maybe some of you bfd/rew experts can schedule a time for some "live"support:clap:where i perform steps"turn on bfd"then post and get instant replies:bigsmile:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

There are directions on Page 2 of the BFD Guide ("Setting Filters Manually"), starting below the graph. There are links for the house curve articles there as well. Scroll up to the top of this page for the link to the BFD Guide.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Forgot to mention, if REW is set to "BFD 1124" under the "Equaliser" column, it will tell you exactly what filter values to enter into the BFD. Takes out all the guesswork.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Well i did print the bfd guide and have been reading it over.
So if rew is set to the 1124 it will give me the filters to enter?whew!!!that looks like a time saver!
i will take new measurements tonight,i had mic at about a 45 degree angle up,i then later read to have it straight up for sub measurements?I also had the bass at about +2.5 db in the tone control of the avr,i want to set that to 0 first.
I read that with the house curve i want roughly 10 db increase from 100 hz to 30-40 hz?Looking at the graph #3 (both subs no mains)in post #70,i almost have that now.i know that'll change when i start filtering but maybe ill get lucky.Im concerned about using too many filters(i read your post about us neewbies getting carried away!)
Also maybe i got lucky with the "hum"issue.i havent noticed that yet.
Thanks for all the advice.i have high hopes to make some drastic improvements tonight.:sob:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> i had mic at about a 45 degree angle up,i then later read to have it straight up for sub measurements?


For measuring subwoofers, it doesn’t matter which way you point the mic.



> I read that with the house curve i want roughly 10 db increase from 100 hz to 30-40 hz?


There is no pre-set value, as each room requires a different slope. The house curve article includes directions on determining the slope you need.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

I guess my next step for tonight will be,run rew again to see what filters it suggest for the bfd,enter them manually,look at that and then start playing with house curves as im sure im not going to be pleased with flat.
As per one of your earlier post,if i look at the graph that i have now and raise the target level to around 84 db as opposed to 75db,things look considerable better as is.Is this something that i should consider when i take measurements tonight or should i stay at 75 db target?i will also play a little with the 40 hz dip maybe with the sub xover or slight movement of the main sub.But all in all im pretty happy its as small as it is considering what i had before.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> As per one of your earlier post,if i look at the graph that i have now and raise the target level to around 84 db as opposed to 75db,things look considerable better as is.Is this something that i should consider when i take measurements tonight or should i stay at 75 db target?.


 Go ahead and do the sweep at 75 dB to get the reading, but before you equalize move the Target line to a good mid-point between your peaks and lows (look under the “Target” icon to the left of the screen). REW will suggest filters to cut peaks down to the adjusted Target curve; if you need any boosted filters for low spots, you’ll have to do those manually 

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Will do,
Thanks for all the replies,i think im just getting a little nervous/anxious,thinking im finally going to make some headway in this.We moved into our current house a little under two years ago.I was really excited to be getting a basement to use for my dedicated "ht"room and acquired all my equipment,piece by piece after tons of reading reviews/articles etc...and have been disappointed with sound quality all along.
I have high hopes.
Ill keep you posted(i know!wonderful!!):hush:
Seriously thanks for all your,and many others ,great patience and tremendous help.I will have "platinum supporter"under my name fairly soon.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

ok what am i doing wrong?dsp 1124 is set to the eq in rew but after i run the measurements there is no info there under eq filters?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

oh i see.if i set the type to pa then move the filter to where i see that i need it and then i can adjust the gain and bandwith to get my desired results.is this correct?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

i got it hit the optimise pk gain and q


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

here is both subs with three filters .then subs and mains


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Looks good. Fifteen Hz and going strong? *drool* 

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

i was impressed with that.thats without the turbo and in 22hz max output mode?
i still need to get a house curve in as i do want a little more low end.
i will say it sounds considerably better,much tighter,cleaner.i just feel as slight disconnect between the mains and the subs, but it is getting there.
i also need to re check the input level as i only get the bottom two lights on when a movie is playing,occasionally ill get two more light but no where near the upper end.i set "swfr" in the avr to +2.5 db,it was -3.0db!!!so getting rid of that hump at the low end sure helped.
do you see anything that i should try to improve on?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> i will say it sounds considerably better,much tighter,cleaner.i just feel as slight disconnect between the mains and the subs, but it is getting there.


I wonder if that is because of the major hump you have at 80Hz. and then the 50-70Hz region is much lower (5-6dB). :huh:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

your probably right,i will play with filters more.
i just went over everything again and to set the bfd input level i went from -3db to +8 db in the avr "swfr"level to get up to the top yellow and red led "blink"!that seems excessive!!!i used the ratatouille blu ray(scene where lightining strikes when the two rats are on the roof)as well as 3:10 to yuma(explosion scene when theyre riding thru the tunnel)then used dve calibration disc to set the subs with the mains they were 75 db at mains and about 80 db on each sub(i turned off mbm 12,checked just the ho,then turned off the ho and checked just the mbm,then both together)they seem balanced but boy that seems like a big gain!!the bfd was in bypass mode by the way when i adjusted this.
Sounds awesome right now but i may have to lower the bass gain a tad.ill watch a little while and decide.
this is the first time ive had this much bass i always had that huge bump at around 15 to 20 hz i was calibrating to,i guess,and then everything else was lacking.after eqing down that big peak i can now hear/feel bass everywhere.WOW.
ill keep you posted.
i still need to run the hsu test disc to see what sort of house curve i need.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> the bfd was in bypass mode by the way when i adjusted this.


I would think you would want the bfd on when you check the new levels compared to mains and make any adjusts. With it bypassed, you are going to hear the spikes again and that will possibly throw things off.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

the bfd was on when i used the dve disc to get the levels between the mains and the subs calibrtated(sorry for the confusion)i meant that i did have the bfd in bypass mode when i set the input level(changing the avr subwoofer level from -3 to + 8)to get to the higher limits on the front panel of the bfd.
I have been watching a few movies and tv programs and i usually am only getting the bottom two green leds on a few times ive saw three.im still a little confused about this.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> i usually am only getting the bottom two green leds on a few times ive saw three.im still a little confused about this.


That's the *output* level you're watching. The *input* level was set previously when you did the original setup. If it was fine, then you're good.

brucek


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

What brucek said. And I'll add, if the filters you used were all cutting, then output level _will _be lower than the input. Especially if the cuts were severe.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

well first off a quick update!!!
finally stopped "tinkering"long enough to watch some movies(or at least bits and pieces of movies)and HOLY SMOKES:yikes:!!i am blown away with what this bfd/rew and all your help has done.Its like ive added several new subs.I FINALLY am feeling like my subs are performing like they should very well mannered ,smooth and then will rattle the couch and walls when called upon to do so,I cant believe the difference,before,manually tweaking with spl meter and playing the dve dvd,i was setting the mains at 75db and the subs were at 80db only at about 15 to 30 hz(because of that huge peak) everything from 31 hz up was lost.now ive got low end everywhere!Thanks a million to all who has helped!!!
now a few questions...
1.i read from the bfd guide to add 1 filter then re measure before adding another filter.when i did this,i noticed that my "predicted response" looked nothing like when i actually remeasured,so i hit measure about three times in a row and all three measurements looked drastically different.any idea why that would be?
2.if i decide(and i will) that i want to redo my filters whats the easiest way to delete the 3 filters that im using now or do i just reset all three back to 0 gain/bandwidth etc...
3.i read somewhere to be very careful boosting dips ,only cut peaks.i have a dip at around 50 hz that id like to boost about 8-10 db(my responses look different than the above graphs now)i understand that if this is a room null,boosting wont help but why couldnt i try & see?any foreseen problems?
again thanks wayne,brucek,weverb and everyone else,i feel that after a year and a half im finally getting somewhere!!!
Going to watch more movie clips,ill check back shortly:R


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> 1.i read from the bfd guide to add 1 filter then re measure before adding another filter.when i did this,i noticed that my "predicted response" looked nothing like when i actually remeasured,so i hit measure about three times in a row and all three measurements looked drastically different.any idea why that would be?


That info from the BFD guide is for folks who are measuring manually with 1/6-octave sine waves and plotting them on a spread sheet. You’ve moved up to REW, so you can close that window. 



> 2.if i decide(and i will) that i want to redo my filters whats the easiest way to delete the 3 filters that im using now or do i just reset all three back to 0 gain/bandwidth etc...


Not sure where it is you want to delete the filters. In REW, just click the red “x” at the top of the EQ filter panel. With the BFD, you can set each filter to “OF,” or just enter new values to change what’s there.



> 3.i read somewhere to be very careful boosting dips ,only cut peaks.i have a dip at around 50 hz that id like to boost about 8-10 db(my responses look different than the above graphs now)i understand that if this is a room null,boosting wont help but why couldnt i try & see?any foreseen problems?


Yeah, that boosting thing it seems just won’t die. You might want to take a look at this post on that topic.

Regards,
Wayne


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> 3. i read somewhere to be very careful boosting dips ,only cut peaks.i have a dip at around 50 hz that id like to boost about 8-10 db...


What you read was generally correct.

Dips are caused by phase cancellations, where the sound reaching the measurement point is a combination of an original direct soundwave and a reflected sound that is 180 degrees out of phase at the dip (one half wavelength). When you add a gain filter at that dip frequency, not only does the direct sound increase by the number of dB of the filter, but unfortunately the 180 degree out of phase signal also applies an equal and opposite signal to counteract. The result is that your dip is still there and you have wasted the gain you've thrown at it.

Consider what creates a peak. The direct signal arriving at the measurement point is combining with a reflected signal that is in phase at the peak. When we apply a cut filter, not only does the direct signal drop, so does the reflected signal drop at the same time. The peak is easily reduced.

I'll let you decide if you want to use gain filters or cut filters....... 

brucek


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

brucek said:


> What you read was generally correct.
> 
> Dips are caused by phase cancellations, where the sound reaching the measurement point is a combination of an original direct soundwave and a *reflected sound that is 180 degrees out of phase* at the dip (one half wavelength). When you add a gain filter at that dip frequency, not only does the direct sound increase by the number of dB of the filter, but unfortunately the 180 degree out of phase signal also applies an equal and opposite signal to counteract. The result is that your dip is still there and you have wasted the gain you've thrown at it.


So the theory goes. In reality, I can probably count on one hand the number of cases I’ve seen over the years where someone truly couldn’t eliminate a depression with EQ.

This article helps explain why. This quote sums things up nicely:

_These nulls are related not only to the distance from the rear wall, but also from the other walls, the floor, and the ceiling. So in order to create a deep null a precise balance is needed, and that balance is easily disrupted by the many other reflections bouncing around the room._

Basically, sound is reflecting from every boundary in the room, not just the one that might be responsible for the signal to be 180˚ out of phase. The other reflections exhibit varying degrees of phase, more or less than 180˚. This gives an equalizer plenty of other, non-canceled signal to work with. Plus, the EQ introduces some phase changes itself. Most likely this is why you’ll seldom see a case where a depression won’t respond to EQ. 

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

in response to post #99...
thats what i thought,i can just set each filter to "of" and then add in new ones.i should just leave well enough alone but im sure at some point ill try to tweak more.
any idea why each of three consecutive measurements would produce a different graphs?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

brucek said:


> What you read was generally correct.
> 
> Dips are caused by phase cancellations, where the sound reaching the measurement point is a combination of an original direct soundwave and a reflected sound that is 180 degrees out of phase at the dip (one half wavelength). When you add a gain filter at that dip frequency, not only does the direct sound increase by the number of dB of the filter, but unfortunately the 180 degree out of phase signal also applies an equal and opposite signal to counteract. The result is that your dip is still there and you have wasted the gain you've thrown at it.
> 
> ...


well i think i can just move past the 50 hz dip.its not that wide anyway.
as far as re doing my filters,its difficult when each time i hit measure i get slightly different results even before i apply filters,any idea why this is?the room is quite and i havent moved anything between measurements?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

I would stay away from boosting anything. Ok, maybe a very small 3dB boost. Think about it a little. It takes twice the power to gain just 3 dB. Image how much power it takes to do 9dB! :scared: You may have enough headroom in your sub to do 3dB, but any more than that.... I seriously doubt HSU would recommend any type of boosting. You may need to contact Pete and Dr. HSU and run your latest graphs and set-up by them now.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> well i think i can just move past the 50 hz dip.its not that wide anyway.
> as far as re doing my filters,its difficult when each time i hit measure i get slightly different results even before i apply filters,any idea why this is?the room is quite and i havent moved anything between measurements?


How much difference? Mine would vary about .5dB. Think the RS meter is not that accurate or good at repeating measurements. It got better with the ECM8000 set-up, but I would still see a .5dB difference in some areas.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

almost totally different graphs,one one have a huge dip ,the next would have a slight dip the next would have peaks the other two didnt have etc...
the first time i ran rew after i connected the bfd all measurements were pretty consistent from one to the next,this was just this past weekend,monday was the second attempt.maybe i need to change my spl battery?its shows good on batt test but it has had quite a workout in the pat few days.


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Maybe try your filters on a different memory preset. See if the bfd is doing something funky. Maybe try a few in bypass mode again and see if you get the repeatability you had before.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

weverb said:


> Maybe try your filters on a different memory preset. See if the bfd is doing something funky. Maybe try a few in bypass mode again and see if you get the repeatability you had before.


ill try that next id like to...
turn all filters off as i want to redo these anyway and then apply new filters under preset "10"in case of power failure,does that make sense?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

weverb said:


> I would stay away from boosting anything. Ok, maybe a very small 3dB boost. Think about it a little. It takes twice the power to gain just 3 dB. Image how much power it takes to do 9dB! :scared:


See the link in Post #99 to learn about “relative gain.”

Regards,
Wayne


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> almost totally different graphs,one one have a huge dip ,the next would have a slight dip the next would have peaks the other two didnt have etc...
> the first time i ran rew after i connected the bfd all measurements were pretty consistent from one to the next,this was just this past weekend,monday was the second attempt.maybe i need to change my spl battery?its shows good on batt test but it has had quite a workout in the pat few days.


Hard for us to tell without any graphs to see...

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Hard for us to tell without any graphs to see...
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


understood,
ill try to get my current graph up tonight.
Thanks
Dean


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

here is what im currently dealing with...
first graph is the latest with no filters second is with 5 filters applied"before filters and predicted"and last is measurement with the same 5 filters applied "measured".
filters are...
20.2 hz -10 db q 7.1
25.3 hz -7 db q 6.1
49.5 hz -4 db q 5.3
63.8 hz -6 db q 10.6
86.0 hz -7 db q 5.3
i worry as per waynes sugestions that im applying too many filters
how does this look?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

About the only one I can see that probably isn't needed is the 63 Hz filter. Too narrow to be audible.

Oh yes, the one at 86 Hz might not be needed, as the mains may be also be overlapping that area once they are turned on.

You might want to try a boosting filter to raise area between 35-50 Hz to be more in line with the rest of response.

As to the inconsistencies you're seeing running a new sweep after EQ, any number of things can affect that. For instance, if you're not in a dedicated room, a door opened somewhere nearby can alter the graph, even if you can't hear any difference. If one reading looks weird, take a few more - sometimes you can get a "glitch" reading that isn't duplicated with subsequent sweeps.

Regards,
Wayne


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

It also looks like the 49Hz filter is not doing anything. :huh: There is no change in your responses in that area.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

ill try to find time to adjust more over the weekend,
i will remove those three filters and see what i get,
im going to try to lose the 52-58 hz dip that im getting now.i guess the 49 hz filter is causing some of that.
That 70 hz dip just wont go away.
Notice the "predicted"response in graph #2 and the actual remeasured graph #3.
it seems like everytime i put in a filter i get a "problem area"somewhere else that didnt show in the predicted screen?i guess this is hands on homework,ive never had eq experience so im learning.
all in all im very pleased with the sound compared to what i had before,i just want to fine tune to even it out a little more.Has anyone here ever got to that magic place where you say,"now thats perfect",and then just leave it alone?


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

jdeanmc said:


> ill try to find time to adjust more over the weekend,
> i will remove those three filters and see what i get,
> im going to try to lose the 52-58 hz dip that im getting now.i guess the 49 hz filter is causing some of that.
> That 70 hz dip just wont go away.
> ...


Each time my I see a movie that works I document everything. :yes:

Device settings:
Speaker distances from each wall: 
A graph with a title describing the specific changes or notes.
Saved filters:
Maybe a photo or two:
A simple note about what sounded better and in what context:

Then it's time for A B comparisons of what was improved. Finding a particular sound that did not seem right might very well prove to be non related to setup and to the source material and you might be :sad2:

Then when something good sounding comes along that is actually a result of what results you have documented/confirmed to be improved upon and you are :yay:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

i re adjusted everthing,played with phase control more and got that 70 hz dip to a minimum.i also re-did all but the 1st 2 filters,raised the 30 to 50 hz area.here is my latest..
filter 1.-20 hz gain -10,bw 6
filter 2.-25 hz gain -7 ,bw 7
filter 3.-40 hz gain +3 ,bw 9
Ho phase 0,xover 40 hz volume 11 oclock
MBM12 phase 0,volume 11 oclock
Receiver xover 80 hz,Subwfr level + 8.5 db.
Im still concerned with the high receiver swfr level+8.5(should i be?)
also if i need to adjust the sub level,do i want to do that with the sub gain controls or the avr swfr level?
How does this look any suggestions on improvement?does the swfr level look too high compared to the mains?i know thats kind of subjective but does anything look way off?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

scratch last post.here is my current graph
filters are...
20.25 -12 bw 12
37.45 +3 bw 11
91 -6 bw 11
366 -5 bw 80

blue is with no filters,purple is with filters applied.my first attempt to play with house curve.ran the sine wave generator 30hz,100 hz sounds somewhat consistant in volume.is the house curve actually doing anything?please comment on other filters as neccessary.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

I think you'd find this easier if you added a Target curve to the graph before equalizing - it'd give you something to shoot for. There are directions in the REW help files for incorporating a house curve into the target, and in Post #4 of my minimal EQ article for a hard knee house curve, if you want to go that route.

Regards,
Wayne


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> 366 -5 bw 80


:blink: What?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

weverb said:


> :blink: What?


HA
That was my failed attempt to get a house curve.
Im removing all filters,reading up on Wayne's hard knee house curve article and trying again.
This is my project for this evening,ill post shortly


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> 366 -5 bw 80





weverb said:


> :blink: What?


That was a nifty trick brucek came up with some years ago to induce a house curve: A broad filter centered well above the sub range, so that the edge of its action would affect the sub range.










Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

alright,i think i get the basics(if id put as much into ,say med school as this,i could've been a brain surgeon by now!!)
so ill determine what slope i need,then build my txt file so that it drops straight from 30 hz to my xover point(80 hz)then scale graph to 10 to 130 db,1/6th octave smoothing,raise target line to mid point between peaks and dips and then apply filters!!Correct?
anything different as i have 2 subs?ho from 15 hz to 42 hz,mbm12 from 42 hz to 80hz?
Do i need to disconnect the mains before i apply filters or do i leave them connected now that im generally satisfied with sub placement and phase settings?
(trying to make you proud Wayne!!!)


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> That was a nifty trick brucek came up with some years ago to induce a house curve: A broad filter centered well above the sub range, so that the edge of its action would affect the sub range.


Oh, that's right. I have not seen anyone actually try it. :dunno:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

last measurements...
house curve...
30 5.0
40 2.8
50 1.2
55 0.6
60 0.2
65 0.1
filters...
20.50 -13 bw 8
25.65 -6 bw 6
36.18 +3 bw 12


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

weverb said:


> Oh, that's right. I have not seen anyone actually try it. :dunno:


It would be useful if someone's response was such that after equalizing they ended up with a fairly flat line, or one that didn't quite have enough of a slope to get a good house curve. Not common, but certainly not unheard of...

Regards,
Wayne


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> so ill determine what slope i need,then build my txt file so that it drops straight from 30 hz to my xover point(80 hz)then scale graph to 10 to 130 db,1/6th octave smoothing,raise target line to mid point between peaks and dips and then apply filters!!Correct?


Correct. The smoothing and 20-130 dB window aren't really necessary unless you find you have a tendency to over-equalize - i.e., lots of narrow filters with 1-3 dB adjustments. Filters like that aren't audible; the only real purpose they serve is to make a graph look good. 



> anything different as i have 2 subs?ho from 15 hz to 42 hz,mbm12 from 42 hz to 80hz?


Not really. Probably easier to equalize if one channel of the BFD is feeding them, though...



> Do i need to disconnect the mains before i apply filters or do i leave them connected now that im generally satisfied with sub placement and phase settings?


The connection of the mains (or not) is for the purpose of getting a reading for a graph. Has nothing to do with applying filters.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

By the way, it'd be much easier for us to gauge you progress if you'd show the Target curve in your graphs...

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> By the way, it'd be much easier for us to gauge you progress if you'd show the Target curve in your graphs...
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Ill repost with the target curve.
It was late last night when i finished with the house curve file.i didnt really even get a chance to listen to it.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

here is my last measurement with the 5 db hard knee house curve target line first full range second subs only


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

I would worry less about the response being above the target and more being within a closer range. Looks slightly higher after the crossover to me, but still good none the less. What is important is that it sounds right.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Yeah, like wire noted, you aren't tracking the Target very well. Try EQing so that the Target splits the middle between those ups and downs between 30-80 Hz.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

will do.
As far as that hump around 80,this is my xover point so i might have trouble eqing that down,if so, should i play with the mbm gain?or should i leave the gains alone at this point and strictly stay with eqing what i can?
Looks lik im going to end up with 5 or 6 filters if i just eq.maybe i can loose a filter or two if i turn the gain down a tad.(im at work so ill have to wait until tonight to try hence the questions instead of just trying it!)


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Okay, what has happened since you made this post? Overall, things looked better then, at least before addressing a house curve.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Well i notice that i have the graph scale different?other than that,i dont really know,ill have to go back and check(i have notes)the volume looks like it has crept up since then.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> i have the graph scale different?


For subwoofers, always use the standard Vertical graph axis of (45dB - 105dB) and the Horizontal graph axis of (15Hz - 200Hz) using the Graph Limits button in the top right corner of REW.
Use a target of 75dBSPL.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Okay, what has happened since you made this post? Overall, things looked better then, at least before addressing a house curve.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


i Think maybe some of the difference is phase settings.both subs are now at 0,the previous graph i think i had both subs at 180 to mains.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

alright,i redid everythig AGAIN.
filters are...
20.50 -17 bw 9
26.62 -6 bw 6
57.80 -6 bw 10
83.00 -7 bw 10
the mbm 12 was moved from behind a coffee table to the right of the sofa to behind the middle of the sofa.
mbm phase 0
ho phase 180
1st graph is after these changes,before any filters and predicted,second graph is measured after filters applied.
does this look better as far as tracking the target house curve?
notice the difference in the predicted and the measured graphs mainly 62 and 80hz should this mean anything to me?


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Do you hear a hum from the speakers and on the sub when you are measuring, maybe not there when not? 

If you want to find what modes are in your room that could be effecting the response, you could place the mic in the right corner of the room and measure. It could be some modes around those areas you mention effecting the eq. You could overlay the two in the all measured tab and do a comparison. If that is the case, you may want to target some filters at the location of the room modes in the waterfall plot, or spectral decay, so these may ring out more smoothly, then proceed.


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> notice the difference in the predicted and the measured graphs mainly 62 and 80hz should this mean anything to me?


Probably contributions from the main speaker, whereas your EQ is in the sub path.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

thewire said:


> Do you hear a hum from the speakers and on the sub when you are measuring, maybe not there when not?
> 
> If you want to find what modes are in your room that could be effecting the response, you could place the mic in the right corner of the room and measure. It could be some modes around those areas you mention effecting the eq. You could overlay the two in the all measured tab and do a comparison. If that is the case, you may want to target some filters at the location of the room modes in the waterfall plot, or spectral decay, so these may ring out more smoothly, then proceed.


i do have a slight hum.
I will measure room modes.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

JohnM said:


> Probably contributions from the main speaker, whereas your EQ is in the sub path.


so theres no need for me to try to eq those out with the bfd then.
Thanks


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Your response looks fine now. I wouldn't change anything.....


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Looks good yes. Thought the mains were off in my comment earlier.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

brucek said:


> Your response looks fine now. I wouldn't change anything.....


Great,
maybe im getting somwhere.I will admit the bass sounds weak,back to like the mains and subs arent "blending"well.ill give it some time.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

thewire said:


> Looks good yes. Thought the mains were off in my comment earlier.


So whats with the question about the"hum"?anything that i should be concerned with?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jdeanmc said:


> Great,
> maybe im getting somwhere.I will admit the bass sounds weak,back to like the mains and subs arent "blending"well.ill give it some time.


You can always turn up the sub, maybe try a steeper house curve...

Regards,
Wayne


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> You can always turn up the sub, maybe try a steeper house curve...
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Remember, the most important thing is how it sounds to you. The REW graphs are just a guide to help you improve the sound. They will help show you were the problem areas are, but it is still your ears that make the final judgement of what is good. You are not after the perfect graph. :bigsmile:


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

jdeanmc said:


> So whats with the question about the"hum"?anything that i should be concerned with?


Nothing to worry about. If I were looking at a response of a sub without mains by someone, and I saw the curve track higher, I might assume that noise was present at the time of the measurement if the predicted and measured results were different.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Here is my latest,with a 10 db house curve from 70 to 25 hz.3 filters(saved in bfd program #5,so that i can go back easily to program #4)
Comments please


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Looks like you improved the slight bump around 18Hz somehow. That dip around 100Hz might very well not be noticable.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

it does sound better.watching direct tv and music on the directv xm sat channels anyway.
Got my daughter "horton hears a who"we'll be watching that later tonight,this will be the first Blu ray plugged in since the house curve changes.
The graph doesnt look very "steep"to have a 10 db increase.
Still the lowend isnt what i would think with a 10 db house curve,sounds good but it doesnt rattle doors like it did when i had that big 10-20 hz hump before eqing.So i assume that i havent gone overboard.It did also sound like the mbm was doing all the work before,i could cut the ho off and really not notice a difference,now they seem to blend better.


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

As seen in your graphs earlier the MBM appears to have very low distortion. If measuring both subs at the same time (crossover and such) with everything setup, I think you would find you have pretty low distortion overall. If the door is not rattling, it may mean that you got rid of some compression, but not sure exactly. It could also mean that similar to adding a sub sonic filter, that the noise is lower with less than stellar recordings, and things just don't move as much because low frequencies move things.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Update.
Now im getting somewhere!!!
We did watch "Horton hears a who"and it sounded very impressive(even with less than stellar reviews as far as lfe)
My wife also brought home a new cd she wanted to listen to and it sounded very full and clear,(she usually cranks it pretty good while shes on her treadmill)alot louder thank we watch movies anyway,any it wasnt harsh at all,it actually sounded better louder!!!
Anyway i think im getting into "fine tune only mode"i could stand a little more low end for movies but any more for music and i think illl be overemphasizing the bottom end so i may do 2 presets in the bfd.movies/music.
I would like to improve that 100 hz dip,but i dont know if its that big of a deal.
The mbm disappears now,i know its working with the Ho but you can't tell which sub is doing what,the mbm cant be localized at all now.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Quick question.
I am planning on re running rew Friday to see if i can "fine tune"a little more.(cant seem to leave well enough alone!!)
I do notice that when i get everything set up,i have a pretty audible "hum"through the mains,when i get the avr up to about -20,the settings for the soundcard look correct -12 sweep,input/output -12,-18 or whatever its supposed to be,i have the print out at home and compare everytime i do setup.I also compare the values for line in,master volume etc in the soundcard mixer,i use the soundblaster live and have the "cheater plug on the bfd.
What am i missing?
When im entering txt in notepad to get my line straight for my house curve,do i want the graph properties in rew set to subwoofer or fullrange?I am measuring with the mains connected.
Finally if you look at the graph in post #150,my mains(100-200 hz) looks high to me,should this be at around 75 db or is it that critical?I usually watch movies at around -20 on the receiver is the reason i ask.Finally at any point after all the tweaks and adjustments,do i ever need to reset the bfd input level?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> to see if i can "fine tune"a little more


Looking at the graph in post 150, why would you want to touch it....



> do i ever need to reset the bfd input level?


Only if you see a lot of red LED's flashing clip warning. If so, turn the sub trim in the receiver down a bit.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

well,excuse my been a little naive(but dang i like this rew/bfd thing!!!)
A few things that i thought could be improved...
I thought the 35-50 was a bit low/55 to 85 was a bit high and id like to try to improve that 100hz dip.
I thought id also try your(Brucek's)house curve?
If it looks good enough that i should leave it alone.maybe ill leave it alone?i just thought there was room for improvement?
I have never seen red clipping led's.as a matter of fact i hardely ever get three maybe four green led's when watching way louder than id normally watch a movie,at normal levels,and i watch fairly loud, only get one or two green led's.thats why i wondered if i needed to be concerned.i havent seen yellow led's either?
I wanted to make sure i had a happy marriage between the mains and the subs.
Id like to see my mains response,at least to 3khz as they are fairly old and once i decided to pull one of the speakers and noticed it wasnt connected!i dont know what happened but the black wire was off.I have the klipsch rf-3II's with dual 6.5" woofers,so one was acting,i guess like a passive radiator?theres a thousand wonders i ever noticed this.it really didnt sound that much different.
Ive heard the mbm(50 to 80 hz nearfield)is where you get that chest rattling lowend in a movie,im not getting that,it sounds great,but no wall shaking.
I do value your opinion and if you say,"its good enough,leave it alone"then maybe i should leave well enough alone?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

It is probably time to just sit and listen to all your reference material. :bigsmile: Give it some time to sink in and then you can try to fine tune after you get a good feel of what might be off. What you might find, is that fine tuning is not audible. :huh:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

weverb said:


> It is probably time to just sit and listen to all your reference material. :bigsmile: Give it some time to sink in and then you can try to fine tune after you get a good feel of what might be off. What you might find, is that fine tuning is not audible. :huh:


I agree.

Just sit down and enjoy your HT, after the changes you made you need to get used to the new sound (same thing happened to me, my bass was really loud, after I finished my Sonosub and calibrated everything it didn't sound the same; but I'm getting used to the new sound) :yes:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

well maybe i should stop tinkering and enjoy!
I am happy with the difference in sound quality since i got the bfd and house curve:jump:
For something different,here is my waterfall,anything here that looks like improvement is needed?i have a couple of bass traps as well as traps at first relection points,but i dont think my two bass traps on the rear wall are enough to be terribly effecive?any suggestions?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

here is my waterfall with logarithmic interpolation checked,graph set to 600 ms time range.is the 15 to 40 region any reason for concern?if i tried with bass traps to get the time down,would that improve the "tightness"of the lowend or is this out of whack enough to be noticeable?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

The 15Hz to 25Hz range appears to have some ringing which isn't good, but I'm not convinced that it isn't simply noise in your room. Use the Spectrum Analyzer to find out.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

could you get me up to speed on the appropriate settings for the spectrum analyzer,please?
I have no idea,as ive never ran this.
Thanks
Dean


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> could you get me up to speed


You should read and become familiar with the REW HELP files to understand all the features of REW.

You can look at this post on the Spectrum Analyzer and RTA.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

gotcha,
ill run the spectrum analyzer over the weekend and see what ive got,
Thanks


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

here is my spectrum analyzer graph.also i moved my bass traps around and notice that the 4 inch traps in the first reflection points seem to smooth the sound of the mains better than the 2 inch in that location,i moved the 2 inch to the back wall as i dont really notice them having much of an impact anyway.
I plan to build some more 4 inch traps if that will in fact have enough improvement to justify the time/cost of building them.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

here also is the waterfall from today


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> here is my spectrum analyzer graph


No, you missed my point of looking for low level noise using the Spectrum Analyzer.

The important lines of the post I referenced said, _Below is a pic of my office with the Spectrum analyzer running *with no signal being generated*................The Spectrum analyzer can tell you a lot about your room and system *before you even do a measure*._.

You don't use any source signal when looking for noise floor... but you need to be set up as if you going to use one.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Oh O.k.
So i just record with no signal being generated,that makes sense(sorry i missed that)Ill try to do this a little later.
Thanks


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> So i just record with no signal being generated


Yeah, but you need the Check Levels all set as if you're going to do a normal measure (so that the input level and the mic are ready to listen), then just push the RED button for the Spectrum Analyser without the White PN noise from the generator. Take a look at my results again....


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

o.k.
I set everything up just as i was about to take measurement,then ran spectrum analyzer.
here is my results...
i did just run up to 200 hz,and i did set graph limits so that this would be readable(at 0 to -70 db i couldnt see the results)
Excuse my ignorance,but is this helpful?


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Brucek,
what is this telling me about my noise floor vs my waterfall?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

You do seem to have some low frequency noise that is quite a bit higher than your noise floor.
You can see in your waterfall how the signal between 15Hz-35Hz starts to drop quite nicely with a smooth decay, and then all of a sudden you show a noise coming almost straight out of the signal and almost rising out to 600 ms. I would imagine that's more noise than signal decay.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

whats the chances,i can improve this?will "deadening the room via bass traps/room treatments help?
Or do i need to look elsewhere?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Look elsewhere. Furnace, air filtration system, traffic noise.

When you measure, try using the multiple sweeps feature to average down the random noise.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

well,
i have no idea what ive done, but i spoke with the sales rep at the dealer that i bought my receiver from.
(I wanted to rerun ypao but didnt want it to mess with the subs.)
He suggested that i set mains to large,turn off subs,run ypao,then set mains back to small and turn subs on.This he said would allow ypao to eq the mains,center,surrounds but not touch the subs response.
I did this and boy did it help,the main "imaging"is much improved as well as the surrounds.any "harshness"is gone.
Just to make sure this wasnt in my head,i drug the wife down to listen to a few of her favorite cd's and even she said it sounds less "tinny"it really is much improved!i dont understand as ive run ypao many times but always left the mains as small when i run this?i wouldnt think that it would make any difference.
Here is my newest fullrange response,i just want to make sure that the volumes of the subs are good in relation to the mains,it looks like im not truly getting the 10db house curve ive entered as i have alot of 83 to 86 db spikes from 460 to 2khz then a drop from 25 hz to 460hz.smoothed to 1/3 octave it looks o.k.Do i need to try to blend the subs to mains better,or am i going overboard?
Brucek,i made sure everything in the house was off (all hvac's,other tv,s,etc)all that was still on was upstairs fridge and one in the basement garage behind the ht room and i was home alone.waterfall still shows the same ringing from 25 to 35 hz,wondering if laptop is intoducing some noise or it is in fact the fridge?
I guess my main concern right now is the mains to sub "blend"
Sorry for the long post.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> it looks like im not truly getting the 10db house curve ive entered as i have alot of 83 to 86 db spikes from 460 to 2khz then a drop from 25 hz to 460hz .


That’s best determined with sub only – mains off. If the response is ragged like that, you can double check the house curve with 80 Hz and 30 Hz sine wave tones.



> Do i need to try to blend the subs to mains better,or am i going overboard?


A good starting point is for the sub to be ~10 dB louder than the mains, using the receiver’s rotating test tones. Listen to that for a while with a variety of music sources and adjust the sub up or down if you feel is needed. 



> waterfall still shows the same ringing from 25 to 35 hz,wondering if laptop is intoducing some noise or it is in fact the fridge?


Well, one reason the ringing looks bad down there is because the level is so high – 88-90 dB.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

That’s best determined with sub only – mains off. If the response is ragged like that, you can double check the house curve with 80 Hz and 30 Hz sine wave tones.

so i should disconnect mains?
A good starting point is for the sub to be ~10 dB louder than the mains, using the receiver’s rotating test tones. Listen to that for a while with a variety of music sources and adjust the sub up or down if you feel is needed. 
what rotating test tones?

Well, one reason the ringing looks bad down there is because the level is so high – 88-90 dB.

so how do i get the level down?
p.s.thanks for your concern and replies.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> so i should disconnect mains?


Yes.



> what rotating test tones?


Receiver test tones.



> so how do i get the level down?


Turn the sub down.

BTW. You should use quotes so your posts are easier to read...  Highlight (with the mouse) the text you want quoted in your post and press the quote button.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Hey Guys,
I moved my equipment rack off the front wall and into the understairs room last night,which gives me alot more room to move the mains around.
I plan to rerun ypao,re-eq and see if i can get a better blend between mains and subs.
Ill run the 30 and 80 sweeps,verify house curve and drop the 25 hz level down a bit to see if i can improve the ringing down there.
One question,when i run the receiver test tones to check the level between the mains and the subs,what freq or freq range does the receiver play on the subs?i have the two subs and dont know which to adjust to get to 10db louder than mains,ho- 15 to 45hz.mbm- 45 to 80 hz.
Am i making this more complicated than it is?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> One question,when i run the receiver test tones to check the level between the mains and the subs,what freq or freq range does the receiver play on the subs?i


Band limited pink noise.

Set up your own band limited pink noise with REW for the ranges you want, if you have trouble doing it with the receiver.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

brucek said:


> Band limited pink noise.
> 
> Set up your own band limited pink noise with REW for the ranges you want, if you have trouble doing it with the receiver.
> 
> brucek


Thanks Bruce,

Would it make sense to run the rew pink noise at say 130-140hz(anywhere above crossover freq)and get the mains at 75 db on the spl meter,then without touching receiver volume,disconnect the mains and then run pink noise at 80hz )as this is about where my house curve starts)to get the mains level matched with the mbm 12.
I know i seem to make things more difficult than they are,i just am confused about getting mains set with the subs,when i have two subs at different frequencies and a house curve climbing from @80 hz to 20 hz.
Thanks


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Would it make sense to run the rew pink noise at say 130-140hz


Band limited Pink Noise refers to pink noise with a lower and upper cut limit. For a subwoofer cal, for example, the upper lower limit may be 30Hz-80Hz, and for a mains speaker cal the upper lower limit may be 500Hz-2000Hz. You can customize this to your own situation as you see fit.

I don't really see the need to do any of this when you can easily do a measurement sweep in REW from 0-200Hz and just set the levels.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

I see,
Sounds like i am making this more complicated than it is.
Just looking at my graph it LOOKS like ive got a dip from 30hz to 1000hz?
I dont know that it SOUNDS like that though.
I think your right ill just remeasure,now that ive moved some things around and set levels with the sweeps.
Thanks again
Dean


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Just looking at my graph it LOOKS like ive got a dip from 30hz to 1000hz?


There's no dip from 30Hz to 100Hz. There's a rise from 30Hz down to 20Hz. Turn down your sub and it will go down. Most people like that rise, but you may not.

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

brucek said:


> There's no dip from 30Hz to 100Hz. There's a rise from 30Hz down to 20Hz. Turn down your sub and it will go down. Most people like that rise, but you may not.
> 
> brucek


Hey Bruce,
I think what im trying to say is that from 450 to 2000 hz i see alot of 86 db spikes then a lower level down to around 30 hz.
This is what it sounds like to me, to get the bass response where i think it should be the overall volume of the highs is unbearable(with the avr voulume)Id like to keep the bottom end (80 hz down)where it is but keep the 80 hz and up to 75 db,hoping that would better balance the subs to mains and ensuring that my house curve truly started at 75 db at @80 hz and increased to @85db at 15 to 20 hz.
i dont know how accurate my radio shack meter is to 2-3k hz but if this is fairly accurate im afraid its a "reflection" problem,i want to delve into acoustic treatments soon but now i only have a 2 inch thick panel in the first reflection points and a 4 inch trap behind each main. Again i have the klipsch speakers,known for being "lively"and tongue in groove walls.If i could lower the 80hz and on up to 75 db i was hoping to minimize this and keep the 80hz and down level as is (other than drop the hump at 20-25 hz to try to improve the ringing)i feel sure if you heard what you can see on my graphs,you wouldn't be impressed.
Could i check"use the mains"to set the levels in rew and then disconnect them to set the subs?instead of using the subs to check the levels?
i apologize if you've answered this over and over and im missing the point and again for making this more complicated to myself than it should be.
Thanks btw to Sonnie for posting his picks in his new project as i can use that to my advantage to convince my wife that im not as obsessed as she thinks i am


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> think what im trying to say is that from 450 to 2000 hz i see alot of 86 db spikes then a lower level down to around 30 hz.


That's comb filtering. When presenting graphs above 200Hz, it's common to enable smoothing to reveal the underlying trend of the signal, and better represents how we hear.



> Could i check"use the mains"to set the levels in rew and then disconnect them to set the subs?


Your response looks fine except the sub level at 20Hz is peaking. Turn it down or EQ filter it down...

brucek


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

I still need to work on the sub 30 hz ringing but.yesterday i rerun ypao as i had moved the equipment rack off the front wall and moved the mains slightly closer to each other.As i was going through the settings in the avr i came across the "dynamic range"setting.this has always been set to min,i decided to try it at "max"and it is very very much improved!!!!
I started reading around online and from what i pick up this is the dynamic compression control and it seems that max is the equivalent to off and min is like a nite mode?(something apparently gets lost in translation in the owners manual)this sounds backwards to me.
Anyway NOW i feel like the subs and mains are blending.FINALLY:jump:I still want to rerun rew and look at things,as i sure they,ve changed.I did by the way set the swfr out to fronts and fronts to large before running ypao and boy did this sound impressive as well,with the subs out of picture!!I did change it back after running ypao.
I didnt have but a few minutes to listen to any material after all this,hopefully tonight i can.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

well that did it!!!
ill have to redo everything now(housecurve etc)as ive now got more bass than i can handle!
i cant believe i made such a stupid mistake(overlooking the dynamic range thing).thanks to all who listened to my rants over and over.
i dont know how different these graphs look, but the difference is night and day.
i did have a hard time with the input level,thats why graph is at 65 db?
ill redo the house curve soon and see what i get,thanks Bruce,Wayne etc..


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc,

Great progress. Glade to see you stuck with it and were able to hear a difference. :yay2:


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

weverb said:


> jdeanmc,
> 
> Great progress. Glade to see you stuck with it and were able to hear a difference. :yay2:


Thanks,it really is a dramatic difference!!
Any thoughts on what im doing wrong as far as my last sweep level?As far as i can see ive setup everything like i always have but i could not get the target level up to 75?i calibrated meter,used subs to check level,got the meters at -12 and -18 but that put the target level at around 60-65 db?
Also that 50-55 hump will not drop no matter how much i eq it?ill play with the phase and placement some.no worries it sounds so much better i dont care!!
i think im better off to use the 1/3 smoothing so that i dont over do it on the filters.:whistling:


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> Thanks,it really is a dramatic difference!!
> Any thoughts on what im doing wrong as far as my last sweep level?As far as i can see ive setup everything like i always have but i could not get the target level up to 75?i calibrated meter,used subs to check level,got the meters at -12 and -18 but that put the target level at around 60-65 db?
> Also that 50-55 hump will not drop no matter how much i eq it?ill play with the phase and placement some.no worries it sounds so much better i dont care!!
> i think im better off to use the 1/3 smoothing so that i dont over do it on the filters.:whistling:


Did you run the "Check Levels" in the Setting menu and then calibrate the spl meter?


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## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

jdeanmc said:


> no worries it sounds so much better i dont care!!


Don't get too hung up on the look of the graph. Your statement here is the most important thing.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

weverb said:


> Don't get too hung up on the look of the graph. Your statement here is the most important thing.


Gotcha,I do need to move on and just enjoy the thing!!!
I do need to redo my house curve as i said as now 10db is waaaay too much.
After i get that done i think ill just relax for a bit.
Thanks for all the help guys.
Dean


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

weverb said:


> Did you run the "Check Levels" in the Setting menu and then calibrate the spl meter?


yes i did.
It kept coming back "the level for this channel is 64 db"


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