# 2 Channel Stereo Subwoofer Question



## Petly (Mar 17, 2010)

Hello,

I am hoping someone can help me with an answer. I have a Yahama 2 channel stereo receiver. I don't want to throw it out and buy a newer receiver. I want to add new speakers and a powered subwoofer. The receiver does not have a LFE or a connection for a subwoofer. My idea is to add a 2 channel crossover with a subwoofer out. There is a PYLE PPCX-2 or an ART 311 2-Way Crossover I am looking at that I believe will solve my problem. I am looking for any advice or help.

Thank you,

Peter


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

It should work if your receiver has line-level inputs/outputs.


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## Guest (Mar 17, 2010)

It would probably be better to just get on craigslist and find a used HT AVR with a sub crossover.

Used Yamaha's sound pretty decent, and later, upgrade to a external pro amp. Any decent AVR is going to have line outs for L,R,S and well, everything.


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## dyohn (Apr 17, 2008)

Or, get a subwoofer that will accept speaker-level inputs and has speaker outputs for your front mains. Then upgrade to a home theater receiver later.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

Here's what you do. Use rca y-adapters, one set going to your rec. the other to your powered sub which will have its own built in x-over and its own gain control for its internal amp. Simple and sweet!


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

hearingspecialist said:


> Here's what you do. Use rca y-adapters, one set going *to* your rec. the other *to* your powered sub which will have its own built in x-over and its own gain control for its internal amp. Simple and sweet!


To and To. From what?


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## Guest (Mar 18, 2010)

dyohn said:


> Or, get a subwoofer that will accept speaker-level inputs and has speaker outputs for your front mains. Then upgrade to a home theater receiver later.


The sub crossover has hardly any, or no control over a speaker input. It does create bass, but it doesn't sound nearly as good as a low level RCA input.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

REL subs do a good job when connected via Hi Level inputs via the neutrik speakon cables provided.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Knowing the actual receiver model and the make/model of the sub being considered would help in making an evaluation for you. Thanks.


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## Petly (Mar 17, 2010)

Hello,

Thank you for everyone's time and help. I really appreciate it.

Thank you,

Peter


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Just a few thoughts, Peter.
The idea of running the same signal to both the sub and the speakers is a bad one. Sure the low pass filter in the sub will keep the highs out of the sub, but you want to keep the lows out of the speakers as well. So you need both a low pass filter on the sub and a high pass filter on the speakers -- a crossover as you originally proposed.
Some subs come with a built in 'high level' crossover -- these will have speaker wire connections on the back in addition to any RCA inputs. You'll connect speaker wires from the speaker outs of your receiver to speaker level inputs on the sub, and connect your L and R speakers to the speaker level outputs on the sub. The crossover frequency is always (that I know of) fixed, usually at 100+ Hz on the assumption that if you are using this kind of setup you probably have smaller speakers. This is your simplest option, although good subs with such connections are often more expensive than those without.
I'll speak briefly on the benefits of upgrading your receiver. Not only do you have to cross over the bass frequencies from the main speakers to the sub, you have to deal with timing issues. Powered subs usually delay the signal anywhere from a few to over 20 milliseconds -- since you can't move the signal to the sub to before it actually happens to compensate (if you can I'll be your business manager for a VERY low percentage  ), you have to delay the signal to your main speakers by an equivalent amount to get everything matched up. Those delay lines are built into a contemporary multi channel receiver as the distance settings to the various speakers, and the sub is often set at a greater distance away than it actually is in order to compensate it's built in delays.
Which brings us to my last point which is that real rooms almost always benefit from the kind of automatic equalization systems built into contemporary multi channel receivers -- it's not a small improvement in sound unless you have a very well designed acousticaly treated listening room.
Of course you can add all this fuctionallity with external components but it's cheaper to just get a multi channel receiver with those features built in, especially if you shop the used market.
Good luck with whatever you decide!


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## Petly (Mar 17, 2010)

Hello,

Thanks for everyone's help and time for the information given. I thought about what to do even with consideration for my Yamaha receiver. I purchased a Sony STR-DH500 5.1 channel receiver. I figured the Pyle crossover was at least half the cost of a new receiver. I am not an advanced audio technician so I figured the new receiver would simplify setting up the system. I also thought I would get better sound from my Sony SS-F6000 speakers. Being a senior in college, I was not planning on spending more money though, that is the downside of being a audiophile. I guess eventually dated technology will only take you so far. I am still a Yamaha fan but not of their cost. Thanks again for your help.

Thanks,

Peter

:T


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## Allan (Dec 17, 2009)

Petly,

Perseverance always pays off! 

Be sure not to throw away your Yamaha though. I'm sure you can find someone who will love it and put it to good use.

Allan


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## erwinbel (Mar 23, 2010)

Every REL SW has the speakon input option that you simply connect to your speaker terminals on the amp. I have 2 REL's and they are brilliant for music.


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## Kirill (Apr 14, 2010)

> *Geoff Gunnell said*:
> Powered subs usually delay the signal anywhere from a few to over 20 milliseconds -- since you can't move the signal to the sub to before it actually happens, to compensate you have to delay the signal to your main speakers by an equivalent amount to get everything matched up.


From what I know usually there is not much point to perform such a Delaying of the main speakers in that case, first of all from the Psycho-acoustic perception of our ears point-of-view. Since sound travels at ~343-350 m/sec as well as if you are talking about a home theater situation in comparison to a Large size theater, which is much bigger in size there shan't be need for the so called Delay Towers or similar functionality devices in a smaller space. Just from the look of the distance from point A to point B, i.e. source to the ear drums. The only two reasons I could see a usage of delay compensation devices in that case are:

1) Phasing issue, which would occur, but in such a minimalistic amount, that most of people wouldn't even hear it. Unless you are a Mixer with really trained ears. Usual person would start noticing in from around 25-35 ms delay. 

2) Is just a perfectionism, which I respect.

But at the same time if you are on a tight budgeting then it's not a necessity. 

Well that's what I think at least about it.


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