# Simply put: Need help picking modest, entry level receiver



## Phrankoff (Dec 5, 2012)

Just getting my foot in the door here and I'm looking to upgrade my HTIB setup.

It is pretty rough right now with a 4+ year old Sony HTIB 5.1 setup. It was like $150 back then so you can imagine its a real shaker :heehee:

The speaker wires also have adapters at the end too.
I don't know if I can buy a different receiver then use those speakers. Would I just cut the adapters off and strip them?

Someone on here, sorry I forgot who!, mentioned this is the most entry level setup he recommends:
*Onkyo HT-S5400 7.1-Channel Home Theater Package *

Its sitting at a very reasonable price IMO but still looking for advice on whether I should get it or not.

For what its worth, I would probably keep the 2 extra speakers for maintenance and set up 5.1. The room layout/size wouldn't mesh well with 7.1




thanks in advance!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Onkyo does make a decent HTIB system as they use real speakers and a real receiver so things can just be upgraded as money permits. Your old Sony speakers may be usable but without knowing what model its hard to say.
How much do you want to spend on the receiver?


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## Phrankoff (Dec 5, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Onkyo does make a decent HTIB system as they use real speakers and a real receiver so things can just be upgraded as money permits. Your old Sony speakers may be usable but without knowing what model its hard to say.
> How much do you want to spend on the receiver?



to be honest, I need to keep it low. looking at $500 for now.. that's why I was leaning toward a HTIB setup.

Simply put I do not plan on spending big bucks on receivers/speakers for this room.
I want to upgrade my current setup but this is my first HT setup, and I want to spend within reason.
If I hit a scratch off and get an extra 10k of expendable cash, then I can go nuts. For now, I am a first time home owner with a wedding coming up 

Down the line, when we buy a new house, I can make my basement completely dedicated to a HT and start going crazy.
For now, this is man cave that I am looking to improve.

The speakers I have now work- they just get really fuzzy and are not very crisp at higher volumes.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Here you go, This one from Accessories4less is Onkyo's best HTIB system and is just a few $$ more than your budget 
You cant go wrong with it!


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## Phrankoff (Dec 5, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Here you go, This one from Accessories4less is Onkyo's best HTIB system and is just a few $$ more than your budget
> You cant go wrong with it!



same site I saw the other Onkyo 

my only question is, does it support blu ray? I don't see a blu ray symbol


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Oh yes, it has 4 HDMI inputs its a really good receiver thats with it. its an Onkyo 609.


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## Phrankoff (Dec 5, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Oh yes, it has 4 HDMI inputs its a really good receiver thats with it. its an Onkyo 609.




oh, I was under the impression it needed a symbol or logo that said Blu Ray on it.:coocoo:

Now, to convince the fiance


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Normally the receiver alone new costs more than that price all together. Its a great deal!


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Are those speakers THX certified??


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yes, its seems to be as they all have the THX logo on them but it does not really matter as for $550 your not going to find any receiver and 7.1 speaker system that will sound as good.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

That makes even more a great deal!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
While the Onkyo HTIB's are certainly quite compelling, speakers are the single most important link along with the acoustics of the room. That is why we often advocate starting with an AVR and a single pair of high quality speakers and adding to it over time.

For instance. you could purchase an Onkyo TX-NR609 from Accessories4less for $269. http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html
And for speakers, the SVS SBS-02's retailed for $300 a pair and are now available for $149. Unfortunately, it appears they have sold out of the matching SCS-02 Center Channel, but a single SBS-02 could work as a CC.

When ready, simply purchase another pair of SBS-02's for $149 and a single one for $75 for the CC and the Dayton Sub 1000 for $109 and would have an HT that would utterly slay any HTIB.

If it was me, I would start out with the AVR, pair of SBS-02's and the Dayton Subwoofer. The total would be $519 plus shipping. And from there, each upgrade would cost at most $150.
Cheers,
JJ


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> While the Onkyo HTIB's are certainly quite compelling, speakers are the single most important link along with the acoustics of the room. That is why we often advocate starting with an AVR and a single pair of high quality speakers and adding to it over time.
> 
> For instance. you could purchase an Onkyo TX-NR609 from Accessories4less for $269. http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html
> ...


I agree with JJ - a good 2.1 system will sound better than a subpar 5.1 system in most cases. Also, generally speaking, the sub included in most HTIB systems will not give you the sound you are looking to get.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Keep in mind the speakers are THX certified so that does mean that they must meet standards set by them. The sub is rated 20-100Hz and the other speakers have decent sized drivers. I do agree that starting with a good 2.1 speaker system is a good option to start with but If he is like me I would want a full 5.1 system right away and upgrade later.


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## Phrankoff (Dec 5, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Keep in mind the speakers are THX certified so that does mean that they must meet standards set by them. The sub is rated 20-100Hz and the other speakers have decent sized drivers. I do agree that starting with a good 2.1 speaker system is a good option to start with but If he is like me I would want a full 5.1 system right away and upgrade later.



just when I thought I was set on what to do..agghh 

drats :hissyfit:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Trust me, the Onkyo HTIB is a huge step up form anything you had before


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## Phrankoff (Dec 5, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> 
> And for speakers, the SVS SBS-02's retailed for $300 a pair and are now available for $149. Unfortunately, it appears they have sold out of the matching SCS-02 Center Channel, but a single SBS-02 could work as a CC.
> 
> ...



where are you seeing the SBS 02s for $150? can't find them anywhere

EDIT: NVM found them in the outlet section-the link sent me directly to their support page. 


So I'm thinking maybe getting either get the Onkyo 509 or the 609 then (2) SBS-02s.

I'm just confused a bit on the lack of sub woofer. Will I be losing a dramatic amount of bass because of this?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Phrankoff said:


> where are you seeing the SBS 02s for $150? can't find them anywhere
> 
> EDIT: NVM found them in the outlet section-the link sent me directly to their support page.
> 
> ...


I meant to provide a link for the SVS's as they are now buried. Here it is for others: http://www.svsound.com/sbs-02

I would absolutely go with the 600 Series as there is a pretty big difference in power due to the 609 being THX Certified. As for bass, I bundled the Dayton Sub 1000 which combined with the 609 and SBS-02 comes up to just over $500.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Phrankoff said:


> where are you seeing the SBS 02s for $150? can't find them anywhere
> 
> EDIT: NVM found them in the outlet section-the link sent me directly to their support page.
> 
> ...


What JJ was suggesting was going with the Dayton sub which I believe can be found at Parts Express.

And, Tony makes a good point. The Onkyo HTIBs are good as they include the 609 and have speakers that are THX certified. I honestly think you would be pleased with either.

If you want 5.1 right off, I would go with Tony's suggestion. Otherwise, I would build over time as JJ suggests and those SVSOUND speakers are a great start IMO.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

ALMFamily said:


> What JJ was suggesting was going with the Dayton sub which I believe can be found at Parts Express.
> 
> And, Tony makes a good point. The Onkyo HTIBs are good as they include the 609 and have speakers that are THX certified. I honestly think you would be pleased with either.
> 
> If you want 5.1 right off, I would go with Tony's suggestion. Otherwise, I would build over time as JJ suggests and those SVSOUND speakers are a great start IMO.


Hello,
I have been really flaking in respect to providing links today for some reason. I still have Windows open for the Dayton at Parts Express and the SVS's. I somehow forgot to provide the links which is something I always try to do. My apologies.
J


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## moparz10 (Sep 21, 2010)

Hello,
I think your satisfaction will be on another level if you build over time as JJ suggested (sound advice) and you wont be left with equipment that never suited your needs or were up to your standards.i guess what i'm trying to say is buy something that will last you a while as you save to upgrade.As far as my 2 cents take a look at 
HSU's like these,you could use all for your fronts and you can build as you go.:T

http://hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Phrankoff said:


> to be honest, I need to keep it low. looking at $500 for now.. that's why I was leaning toward a HTIB setup.
> 
> Simply put I do not plan on spending big bucks on receivers/speakers for this room.
> I want to upgrade my current setup but this is my first HT setup, and I want to spend within reason.
> ...


I know the word Bose is taboo; but right now at my local Costco, they have two systems:

One is the Two Channel (virtual surround) for $500
 The second is a 5.1 Lifestyle bundled with a Pioneer Receiver for $700.
Personally I would work overtime for a week or two and spend the extra $200 on the 5.1 with Pioneer. Resale value on Bose is high, so in that sense it is a "Best Buy" at your local Costco.

I really agree with Tony, that Onkyo does make a great HTIB if it's one of their phenomenal THX models that runs just shy of grand but can be found for less on the net plus shipping.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

8086 said:


> I know the word Bose is taboo; but right now at my local Costco, they have two systems:
> 
> One is the Two Channel (virtual surround) for $500
> The second is a 5.1 Lifestyle bundled with a Pioneer Receiver for $700.
> ...


Hello,
Those are excellent values for Bose and they do have pretty good resale value. However, especially with the $700 option, it is all too easy to vastly surpass it in terms of performance.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Those are excellent values for Bose and they do have pretty good resale value. However, especially with the $700 option, it is all too easy to vastly surpass it in terms of performance.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Assuming the receiver is a $250 unit, that's $450 for Bose speakers. I should be back at Costco this week, I will write down the model number for the Pioneer so we can better dissect the cost. Thinking about it, I might even be able to separate the two and re-sell for profit!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Bose 5.1 Lifestyle system is awful! have you ever heard one in a home. Yuck Yuck Yuck! LOL Not worth the money spent to drive to Costco.


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## browndk26 (Jan 3, 2011)

Great deal. If I hadn't sold my old AVR already, I might have tried to persuade the wife to buy these to start a second surround system. From past experience, I agree with the previous posts of building a setup a little but at a time.


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## moparz10 (Sep 21, 2010)

How about this set up?falls within your budget since i'm not a fan of (bose)
AVR -http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR1513/DENON-AVR-1513-5.1ch-Home-Theater-Receiver-3D-ready/1.html#!specifications

Speakers-- http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10906&cs_id=1090601&p_id=9774&seq=1&format=2


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Onkyo package is better as the receiver has more power and the speakers and sub are larger.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> The Onkyo package is better as the receiver has more power and the speakers and sub are larger.


Size does not always tell the whole story and does not always mean quality of sound but quantity. Don't get me wrong here, I am a proponent of Onkyo's top tier HTIB systems; but the cost of entry for a BOSE busting Onkyo HTIB is out of reach for this mans budget. Anything in his range of $500 is going to be less than acceptable, in terms of the over all sonic experience compared to the discount Costco is offering. And yes, I have auditioned quite a few of the current gen, past generation Onkyo HTIB, as well as buying a sub $500 Onkyo system for my mother to use. 




tonyvdb said:


> The Bose 5.1 Lifestyle system is awful! have you ever heard one in a home. Yuck Yuck Yuck! LOL Not worth the money spent to drive to Costco.


I am all too familiar with Bose. I have heard it many times in many different homes as well as quite a few cars. Bose is awful, but at what price point are we talking? Certainly, for $400 it's a good system; at $2000, it certainly is not what I would call acceptable. I have seen HTIB systems that are much worse at the same price point. Part of this rationale is that he can get this Bose now, and in the distant future when money permits take advantage of the high resale value to best recover some of his money spent towards better equipment like a set of B&W CM series speakers.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Bose system has a huge hole of missing frequencies the so called bass bin (it is by no means a sub) only does 40-150Hz and the satellites only do 400-16,000Hz. The Onkyo speakers and sub that come with that particular system are Much Much better.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> The Bose system has a huge hole of missing frequencies the so called bass bin (it is by no means a sub) only does 40-150Hz and the satellites only do 400-16,000Hz. The Onkyo speakers and sub that come with that particular system are Much Much better.


No Highs. No Lows. Must be Bose.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> The Bose system has a huge hole of missing frequencies the so called bass bin (it is by no means a sub) only does 40-150Hz and the satellites only do 400-16,000Hz. The Onkyo speakers and sub that come with that particular system are Much Much better.



I am aware of the BOSE. Many HTIB systems, if not most have a huge gap in their frequency response that is far worse than BOSE. Thats why at $699.99 at costco with a PIONEER receiver, I can recommend it as a buy. Sure its taboo, but its also a great deal compared to anything else in this price category.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

8086 said:


> I am aware of the BOSE. Many HTIB systems, if not most have a huge gap in their frequency response that is far worse than BOSE. Thats why at $699.99 at costco with a PIONEER receiver, I can recommend it as a buy. Sure its taboo, but its also a great deal compared to anything else in this price category.


Hello,
I respectfully disagree about this. Bose is especially egregious in respect to using tiny satellite speakers in tandem with a "Bass Module" in Bose Speak that does not even come close to the lowest octave and more than anything just plays the midrange with added emphasis. It is to the point that you can actually hear the dialogue quite clearly when you are within earshot of the Bass Module.

I absolutely do agree that most HTIB's use way too small speakers that in turn require the subwoofer to be tasked with handling frequencies where subwoofers should not have to handle. However, a similarly priced HTIB to a Bose 99 times out of 100 will have a far more capable subwoofer.
Cheers,
JJ


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## moparz10 (Sep 21, 2010)

IMO i would still go the 2.1 route JJ suggested with the TX-NR609 and the SVS or the Hsu's for 149.00 and build something solid. Though the Resale value of the Bose speakers may be good it's another subject trying to unload them. Also what he gets for them will only be a fraction of the cost BW or something in that price range. Also theres alot of reciever choices 2nd hand to be had on ebay for 199.00


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I respectfully disagree about this. Bose is especially egregious in respect to using tiny satellite speakers in tandem with a "Bass Module" in Bose Speak that does not even come close to the lowest octave and more than anything just plays the midrange with added emphasis. It is to the point that you can actually hear the dialogue quite clearly when you are within earshot of the Bass Module.
> 
> I absolutely do agree that most HTIB's use way too small speakers that in turn require the subwoofer to be tasked with handling frequencies where subwoofers should not have to handle. However, a similarly priced HTIB to a Bose 99 times out of 100 will have a far more capable subwoofer.
> ...


I do consider bose to be on the High End of low the end of the mass consumer market. There are a ton of I am well aware they aren't perfect and I normally don't recommend them (see my other posts). But could you tell me of another HTIB that is just as good or better than BOSE for $700?




moparz10 said:


> IMO i would still go the 2.1 route JJ suggested with the TX-NR609 and the SVS or the Hsu's for 149.00 and build something solid. Though the Resale value of the Bose speakers may be good it's another subject trying to unload them. Also what he gets for them will only be a fraction of the cost BW or something in that price range. Also theres alot of reciever choices 2nd hand to be had on ebay for 199.00


I was thinking of something similar to that and have sometimes thought I would go 3.1 channel next time. Since 90% of a movie soundtrack is up front and 99% of all music sold today is 2 channel, skip the surround speakers and get a nicer pair of stereo speakers with a matching center and 3 channel amp. I'm pretty sure we could build a BOSE buster using those requirements and do it for $700 with a receiver.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

8086 said:


> I do consider bose to be on the High End of low the end of the mass consumer market. There are a ton of I am well aware they aren't perfect and I normally don't recommend them (see my other posts). But could you tell me of another HTIB that is just as good or better than BOSE for $700?


(5) SVS SBS-02's $375 http://www.svsound.com/sbs-02
(1) Dayton Sub 1000 $109 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-628
(1) Onkyo HT-RC360 $249 http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...RC360-7.2-Channel-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html
Grand Total $724. I could have easily slotted in an even cheaper AVR to hit below $700.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

There is an open box Polk audio psw10 for $59.99 on newegg could be good on limited budget


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> (5) SVS SBS-02's $375 http://www.svsound.com/sbs-02
> (1) Dayton Sub 1000 $109 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-628
> (1) Onkyo HT-RC360 $249 http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...RC360-7.2-Channel-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html
> Grand Total $724. I could have easily slotted in an even cheaper AVR to hit below $700.



I haven't any heard those, so it is quite possible that it maybe a better sounding deal than my proposition. 

I have a Bose Wave in the Bed Room and it certainly isn't the best sounding thing in my house but it sure is the loudest compact alarm clock I could buy at the time. My Paradigm Mini-Monitors and a 2 channel Onkyo sound 2x better at about the same price as the Bose Wave. A lot of the reasoning why I think Bose is a good buy at this price has to do with resale value and the fact that nearly all entry level home theaters eventually get sold when the owner decides he wants something better. A better resale later means more seed money for a grand reference system later. 


EDIT:
I know this is pushing out of the $700 price range, but Cambridge Minx would more than likely be a Bose beater. 
http://www.abt.com/product/59462/Ca...tm_medium=sc&utm_campaign=S215SSGW&adtype=pla
http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/series.php?SID=94
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-cambridge-audio-minx-215-system


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## moparz10 (Sep 21, 2010)

I had missread jj's previous post i just looked svs 149 a pair :yikes: that would certainly be a bose killer and a bunch of years of enjoyment !


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

8086 said:


> I haven't any heard those, so it is quite possible that it maybe a better sounding deal than my proposition.
> 
> I have a Bose Wave in the Bed Room and it certainly isn't the best sounding thing in my house but it sure is the loudest compact alarm clock I could buy at the time. My Paradigm Mini-Monitors and a 2 channel Onkyo sound 2x better at about the same price as the Bose Wave. A lot of the reasoning why I think Bose is a good buy at this price has to do with resale value and the fact that nearly all entry level home theaters eventually get sold when the owner decides he wants something better. A better resale later means more seed money for a grand reference system later.
> 
> ...


Hello,
SVS simply makes excellent quality speakers. They really made their name with their stellar subwoofers, but the SBS-02's have garnered excellent reviews. Same goes with their more expensive M Series.

The package I came up with is the antithesis of an HTIB. It is also insane value with the SBS-02's being speakers we often recommended when they cost $300 a pair. At $149, they are silly good value. Just the 5 speakers last year would have exceeded your $700 budget as they retail for $750 for 5 of them. The Receiver retails for $549 and you can actually get the current HT-RC460 for the same price. Both are almost identical to the TX-NR609 and TX-NR616 respectively. The subwoofer retails for $149.

Thus the HT retails for almost $1500 and I honestly do not think any HTIB can come within a country mile of it.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi,
New member here and I found this forum through google and boy am I glad I did!:bigsmile:
I've learnt alot from a bunch of posters here, especially jungle jack and tonyvdb.

Ok so, like most of the newbies that come on here, I plan setting up a new home theatre system and I would greatly appreciate any help!

So I bought an in-box home theatre about 8 years ago eek its a sony str-k750p.

After reading through the forum and the above two posts by JJ I am leaning towards getting an Onkyo receiver, 2 SBS-02 and a the Dayton sub and I plan on using the sony speakers I have now along with it until I can buy the other SVS speakers.

My first question is what Onkyo receiver to get, I understand that the receiver is the heart of the home theatre so want to get a good one, one that will last. HOwever I don't want to spend too much money... maybe max 500$? I see jungle jack mentioned two different types of Onkyos (TX-NR609 and HT-RC360) is there one Onkyo that is better then the other? (TX-8###/SR/NR, HT-RC). I would really appreciate it if you can specify a model, since it will be easier to answer the second question, sorry for being annoying!

So my second question is would I be allowed to use the sony speakers with the Onkyo receiver? I read that the resistance of the speaker and receiver must be taken into account but I don't fully understand it. So I was wondering if anyone can tell me is thats doable. 

Thanks for all the help guys! and also, I was blown away by the prices on accessories4less  but what do the Canadians here do? since we can't get it shipped to Canada:rant:

Regards,
Habs


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Welcome to the Shack! I believe this is one of the sites for Canada
http://www.electronicsforless.ca/
You could also check Amazon


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi there Habs, welcome aboard!

Yup us Canadians do get ripped off as far as pricing goes on electronics. There are deals to be had but its not so simple. Im not sure where in Canada your at but if your close to the boarder you can have one shipped to a friend in the US and then go pick it up. If not ebay can be an option but its risky. 
Have a look here at Electronics for less, they are a Canadian seller. Tiger direct.ca is another option.


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

JQueen said:


> Welcome to the Shack! I believe this is one of the sites for Canada


Awesome, thanks!
I did a quick check and Accesories4less seems to have better prices. I think I will use accesories4less and get it shipped to my relative in the states, I don't mind making the drive :R

I'll take look at amazon as well though.

regards


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Hi there Habs, welcome aboard!
> 
> Yup us Canadians do get ripped off as far as pricing goes on electronics. There are deals to be had but its not so simple. Im not sure where in Canada your at but if your close to the boarder you can have one s*hipped to a friend in the US and then go pick it up*. If not ebay can be an option but its risky.
> ....


just what I was thinking:devil:
are you able to help me regarding which onkyo to choose? I read a bunch of your posts and you seem to be an onkyo fan, so I think you would know best 
thanks!


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html

For your range this is the one ^^^^


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Agreed! ^^ the Onkyo 709 is a great receiver for the money.


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Great thanks guys!
Quick question though, I did a quick search in best buy to see if I can find it there and to see the price difference between getting the 709 at accesories4 less compared to best buy I couldn't find the 709 but I found the NR616 for the exact same price (although taxes will push the price up...by a lot...montreal:gulp
so I was wondering if the difference between the 709 and NR616 is real great?
I need fives posts before I can post the link, so I will post it in my next post!
Thanks.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The 616 is a fair bit of a step backward in some regards. You would be closer looking at the 717 for comparison. The 709 is last years model.


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> The 616 is a fair bit of a step backward in some regards. You would be closer looking at the 717 for comparison. The 709 is last years model.


ahh ok thanks, the 717 is 700$ at best buy!


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/onkyo-onkyo-875-watt-7-2-channel-network-receiver-tx-nr717-tx-nr717/10201676.aspx?path=76e241946cda32c9bbbca19e41660b42en02


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yup, we just dont get good prices here.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Habs,
Welcome to HTS. The HT-RCxx and TX-NRxx are mostly almost identical with one another with the HT's primarily being sold at retailers with more of a value bent and the TX's being sold in the mainstream retailers.

The HT's are primarily sold at places like Sears, perhaps Costco and others. There is usually a random feature omitted or added so that they are not absolutely identical as the HT's almost always have a lower MSRP. Denon also does the same with their AVR-1913/3313 etc being the mainstream and the AVR-391/591/891 being offered at more value oriented retailers. A few examples of this are the HT-RC360 is all but identical to the TX-NR609 and the Denon AVR-791 is heavily based off the AVR-1911 and the AVR-891 is a kissing cousin of the AVR-2311CI. And so on and so forth....

For $500, I would try to find an Onkyo TX-NR709. It really is a brilliant AVR that offers everything you might need should you want to continuously upgrade your HT over time. I say this as it offers Preamp Outputs for adding an outboard amplifier, Audyssey MultEQ XT which is truly stellar, and Preamp Outputs. 

As the 709 has been discontinued and replaced with the truly disappointing (to me at least) TX-NR717, it should be available in Canada for close to your budget. Where the 717 is a letdown is that the MSRP moved up to $1000 while downgrading to Audyssey 2EQ. 2EQ is the lowest level of Audyssey RoomEQ and does not offer filtering to the Subwoofer/LFE Channel whereas with MultEQ XT when all the loudspeakers are set to 80hz or higher more of the filtering is allocated to the LFE Channel. Moreover, many believe the Subwoofer/LFE Channel to be the transducer that benefits the most from Audyssey.
Cheers,
Jack


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> The 616 is a fair bit of a step backward in some regards. You would be closer looking at the 717 for comparison. The 709 is last years model.


Then should I get the NR 717, because thats $480 at accesories4less...or is last years 709 better then the newer 717?
Edit
Well JJ already answered my question! Thanks!

Also Jungle Jack, how does the 709 compare to the NR609 and HT-RC360 you listed earlier in the thread?
Man, I really appreciate all your help!


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Hey guys I have another quick question :sweat:
I have been reading a lot of reviews on the 709 and there are a lot of positive reviews but the only negative that I was able to find was that there can be problems with the hdmi output, the thing that has me worried is that I read this issue in several places...should I be concerned?
Thanks!


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Knowing Costco is supplying you with a $379 (full retail) Pioneer VSX-822-K receiver makes this deal look much sweeter. Bose speakers for roughly $300. Not bad?


http://www.costco.com/Bose®-Network-ready-5.1-home-theater-package.product.100027049.html
http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/bose-acoustimass-6-series/4505-7868_7-21174521.html


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

8086 said:


> Knowing Costco is supplying you with a $409 (full retail) Pioneer VSX-822-K receiver makes this deal look much sweeter. Bose speakers for roughly $300. Not bad?
> 
> 
> http://www.costco.com/Bose®-Network-ready-5.1-home-theater-package.product.100027049.html
> http://reviews.cnet.com/surround-speaker-systems/bose-acoustimass-6-series/4505-7868_7-21174521.html


Hello,
Did you happen to read the reviews of the package on Costco? Both gave 1 stars bemoaning the SQ. At the end of the day, it is your money. If you think the Bose is the direction to go, that is exactly what you should do. However, I do not think you will find many if any here that would say you couldn't have done better.

Bose has done a masterful job of marketing. They have practically brainwashed the masses that tiny speakers combined with an "Acoustimass Module" can easily take the place of a full sized HT. Simply put, there ain't no replacement for displacement.
J


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Habs said:


> Hey guys I have another quick question :sweat:
> I have been reading a lot of reviews on the 709 and there are a lot of positive reviews but the only negative that I was able to find was that there can be problems with the hdmi output, the thing that has me worried is that I read this issue in several places...should I be concerned?
> Thanks!


any issues were fixed in a recall and only affected a small number of receivers made at the very end of the run. Accssesories4less will have checked the serial numbers to make sure they were not on the recall list.
I would not worry about it at all.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Habs said:


> Then should I get the NR 717, because thats $480 at accesories4less...or is last years 709 better then the newer 717?
> Edit
> Well JJ already answered my question! Thanks!
> 
> ...


Hello,
The 709 is pretty similar in terms of power, but adds MultEQ XT whereas the 609 uses 2EQ. In addition, the 709 offers Preamp Outputs. The 609 does offer an excellent amount of power comparable to some $1000 AVR's so provided you use efficient speakers, the lack of Preamp Outputs might not be a deal breaker. However, Audyssey 2EQ would be to me if I could afford the 709.

As for the HDMI Board. A pretty large number of Members here have purchased 609's and 709's and I really cannot think of any who have had HDMI issues. I do think it prudent to go to Shoponkyo.com and add 2 additional years of manufacturers warranty for around $60.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Did you happen to read the reviews of the package on Costco? Both gave 1 stars bemoaning the SQ. At the end of the day, it is your money. If you think the Bose is the direction to go, that is exactly what you should do. However, I do not think you will find many if any here that would say you couldn't have done better.
> 
> Bose has done a masterful job of marketing. They have practically brainwashed the masses that tiny speakers combined with an "Acoustimass Module" can easily take the place of a full sized HT. Simply put, there ain't no replacement for displacement.
> J


Agree. *But my question for you is, at what price point does Bose become a good value?* I mean, the Argument here was once against the $1,300++ Bose LifeStyle systems* and it seems they have addressed some of this concern with ever lower priced systems; making them a little more attractive.

I have two Bose retail stores with in a short drive of my House. I've pretty much heard every single Bose product known to man. I've tested just about all of it. The only product to ever leave me impressed was their TV and unless you are pressed for space in an NYC apartment; even that seems a bit too much for the asking. 

Mind you, I dont mean to come across as another Bose (Apple) Zombie. I view things from a more neutral point of view (Mostly cost benefit). I would have always felt Bose was overpriced for what you are getting; be it their computer speakers, headphones (really suck), or home theaters have all under performed compared to competitors at the same price. My AKG-K702s which I have spent thousands of hours using on a daily basis are far better clearer, more natural sounding than the Best Bose headphones of today. 


*$1,300 was the price 10-15 years ago, not adjusted for inflation.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Please read this article as it also discusses some of the tricks used at Bose Stores: http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

And as for resale value, SVS also offers stellar resale value as the speakers were very fairly priced at $300 a pair so at $149 a pair it will be quite easy to get a good amount of your money back. However, the SVS's are so good that I would personally move them into a bedroom or small office for excellent and accurate sound.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Please read this article as it also discusses some of the tricks used at Bose Stores: http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html
> 
> And as for resale value, SVS also offers stellar resale value as the speakers were very fairly priced at $300 a pair so at $149 a pair it will be quite easy to get a good amount of your money back. However, the SVS's are so good that I would personally move them into a bedroom or small office for excellent and accurate sound.


I've already linked that article in my previous reply, please read.

Thanks.


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks for all the help guys! I decided to go with the 709:sn:

Now I have a question concerning the speakers though. Earlier I mentioned that I plan on ordering the SBS-02, is that a good choice? Ultimately I would like to keep the pair in the rear and set up a pair of towers (I don't know which brand though) in the front L/R. So can the pair from SVS be placed in the back? Sorry if this is a stupid question I have got no experience with this stuff...
If you have any other suggestions for speakers, Im all ears!
I did a quick search on amazon and I found these polk audio speakers http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-RM...=UTF8&qid=1357392643&sr=1-32&keywords=klipsch
How would they compare to SVS?
Thanks!


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Congrats on the 709 and no question is a stupid one we all started somewhere


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Thanks! Can't wait till I get it


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Habs,
The SVS's will make for fantastic Surrounds. They would work quite well with Paradigm, PSB and many other brands that you might consider for your Mains and Center Channel.

The 709 is a classic in my estimation and I really think that you are going to love it. And please do not hold back on any questions that you might have.
Cheers,
J


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If considering Klipschs, they will have a bit of a different sonic signature as they are Horn Loaded as opposed to using a Dome Tweeter like in the SVS. A great thing about Klipschs is that they are amazingly efficient. That is they need very little power to play very loud. Newegg has an absurdly good deal on the Klipsch Icon WF-35 Floorstanding Speakers. They retail for $1500 and are available for $600 a pair. 
Here is a link:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780082

I had a good friend order the Icons down here in Florida and I really think they sound great. They are also quite attractive and use an African Wood Veneer that looks great.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Jungle Jack said:


> Habs,
> The SVS's will make for fantastic Surrounds. They would work quite well with Paradigm, PSB and many other brands that you might consider for your Mains and Center Channel.
> 
> The 709 is a classic in my estimation and I really think that you are going to love it. And please do not hold back on any questions that you might have.
> ...


Thanks for the reply JJ!
Just to get this straight, the mains are the front left/right right?:gulp:

So If I were to eventually run a 7.2 set up:
- I can have an SVS pair as the back speakers, 
-another SVS pair as the surround
-and then 2 mains and 1 centre, whatever brand they may be. (I will definitely come back here for advice on this on a later date:R)
-and two subs (I am guessing thats what the .2 means)

Does that seem ok?
Once again, thanks a bunch!


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> If considering Klipschs, they will have a bit of a different sonic signature as they are *Horn Loaded* as opposed to using a *Dome Tweeter *like in the SVS. A great thing about Klipschs is that they are amazingly efficient. That is they need very little power to play very loud. Newegg has an absurdly good deal on the Klipsch Icon WF-35 Floorstanding Speakers. They retail for $1500 and are available for $600 a pair.
> Here is a link:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780082
> 
> ...



I'm sorry, but I read those terms a few times in these forums and I have no idea what they mean:coocoo:
did some googling and the only difference between the two I was able to found is that a horn tweeter has a smaller zone of coverage whereas a dome tweeter can cover a larger area? Is that the major difference?
Thanks!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Horn on the left and Dome Tweeter on the right.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Horn on the left and Dome Tweeter on the right.


If you like Jazz (or brass/wind) and some vintage tunes, I really think Klipsch is the way to go. Louis Armstrong sounds concert like on Klipsch Reference speakers. For everything else like Rock, rap, or modern pop, I would consider something with a good dome or ribbon tweeter.


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Hi
I don't know if I'm being paranoid or not but when I was checking out from the a4l website there was a note saying any orders done with Canadian credit cards will be cancelled and I paid through pay pal using a_Canadian_ credit card:blink: now when I went to check my order status it says on hold must be checked manually.... I was really looking forward too it too:unbelievable:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Paypal works just fine, I did it just a couple weeks ago to buy some power conditioners from them. Im also in Canada. Just email them to confirm, they are really good at getting back to you.


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Paypal works just fine, I did it just a couple weeks ago to buy some power conditioners from them. Im also in Canada. Just email them to confirm, they are really good at getting back to you.


Ok that's a relief, thanks! Will email just in case, though.
Edit

Also, I have a question about the one year manufacturers warranty, would it be applicable in Canada? Because my friend just scared me saying he wouldn't buy refurbished amps because they can be prone to problems and he told me to make sure that the warranty will work for Canadians as well..
Thanks


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Habs said:


> Also, I have a question about the one year manufacturers warranty, would it be applicable in Canada? Because my friend just scared me saying he wouldn't buy refurbished amps because they can be prone to problems and he told me to make sure that the warranty will work for Canadians as well..
> Thanks


Accessories4less will honor the warranty, Refebished receivers can be better than new because with new you are more likely to have an issue because they have not fixed the possible problem. Ive owned a Marantz from Accessories4less and never had any issues with it..


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

If you Accessories4less can't ship to Canada, you can try using the ShipTO service. 

http://www.shipito.com/


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## Habs (Jan 5, 2013)

Afternoon Guys,
I wanted to update you on the purchases:R
As you know I ordered the Onkyo TX-NR709 from a4l and I also ordered a pair of SBS speakers from svs and they both just arrived to my friends house in the states :bigsmile: I am really looking forward to settingup the system and I can't wait to go pick em up this week-end!
I wanted to thank everyone here for helping me make these choices, I am sure that if it was up to me I may have ended up buying another HTIB, thanks for showing me the light :sn:

Also, I have got a question about the 5.1 set-up I am planning on doing until I can get good front towers and centre I was planning on using the sbs pair as my surrounds and to continue to use the three front speakers that I got from my HTIB as my L/R/C. Would that be alright? the speakers are SS-MSP75 (L/R) and SS-CNP75(Center). I read the specs online, and I realize that these are horrible speakers :gulp: while googling I even found all 5 speakers for $50 on ebay, so they must be bad lol. I have attached the spec sheet. 
Do you guys think that these speakers will make the HT sound bad? if so, should I just use a 2.1 set-up for now? I will be using the HT mostly for movies (Movies (60)/Games (20)/ Music (20))

Also is the sub that came with my HTIB any good? Can I continue to use it?

I don't know if these are answerable questions, but I thought I should just post my doubts here:huh:

Thanks!

Habs


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## moparz10 (Sep 21, 2010)

I would try it both ways,ultimately it's up to what you hear,i think you are ahead of the game with the reciever and the svs speakers,try it with the sub it may be fine till you can upgrade,either way your on the right path. :bigsmile:


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