# Receiver for Frankenstein System



## billyo (Nov 14, 2011)

Hi guys,

After mucking around with all the wires at the back of my setup, I'm over it and want to look into a receiver.

The thing is, that my good tower speakers are 4 ohms and I have a very nice amp (with no remote) that I want to keep using -as it will drive them without raising a sweat, gives a much better purer sound than a receiver (or so I believe) and also because I dont have the WAF to drop a few grand on a 4ohm capable receiver (in Australia, they are 2x the cost of what my US cousins pay!)

But I've also got a cheap set of 5.1 Logitech PC speakers arrayed around the room, which do nicely for general TV viewing and gaming - but I want the option to upgrade them later on and integrate the towers into a home theatre setup.

My next speaker acquisition will probably be a fairly hefty passive radiator subwoofer, with an active crossover thats powered by a plate amp.

I'm a complete babe in the woods when it comes to receivers and what they can do... also none to great when it comes to the finer points of audio encodings and what can and can't carry them. So you might need to excuse my ignorance!

The way I see it, I'd need inputs from at least 

Input:

Component video
At least 4 HDMI 1.4
SPDIF would be nice

(these should account for a HTPC, an xbox360, an old xbox and leave room for a dedicated BD player later on, should I decide to replace the HTPC with a PVR)

Processing:

A good DAC and Digital Signal Processor that can decode all of the major audio formats. This is where I'm fussy - I don't want hissing into my music! 

Output (here is where it gets interesting):

Depending on what I'm doing in the moment, I'd want to be able to switch the audio between

The cheap pair of analogue input 5.1 PC speakers (for TV and gaming), using the el cheapo amp in these speakers to do the work. I guess that would mean a set of 3 analogue line outs from the back of the receiver (alternatively, a SPDIF out and a cheap DSP to decode it - hissing doesnt matter for gaming or TV).

- or - 

Decode the digital signal from a HTPC via HDMI and pass it to a L&R line out and into the 2 ch amp and later, drop a line into the active sub (for music). I'd like the receiver to be able to boost the line level by up to +12 dB (but be adjustable). This is because the volume in the Windows 7 HTPC is low and I can't for the life of me find a way to boost it by replacing drivers, etc. I figure that Microsoft didnt want to get sued later on.

But... line out can't be the same line out as going to the PC speakers, because I don't want to be plugging and unplugging around the back - this is where I fear the toslink output and a DSP will be needed.

Later on, when I get around to chucking the PC speakers altogether, I'd like the receiver to drive a centre speaker and rear pair, but leave the amp and plate amp to power the towers and the sub. 

I expect that each speaker pair would need some kind of individual volume control so that they play nicely with each other.

- or -

Simply send all the audio through to the TV speakers via HDMI 1.4


As I said, I'm not really au fait with receivers and what they can do... I'm hoping that this is possible and sort of makes sense. I'm also hoping that because the heavy lifting of driving the sub and towers is done by amps, that it can be done on a lower end receiver... I'm quite partial to Yamaha as a brand.

What do you think? :blink:


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## bigjbk (Jan 28, 2012)

Take a look at a Yamaha Reciever if you are trying to keep your costs down. Many Yamaha's have a switch for 4Ohm speakers. They tend to quote RMS as well. If you are really wanting to build get a preamp and then an Emotiva XPA-3. You should then have the beginnings of a good system.


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## billyo (Nov 14, 2011)

Hi BigJBK - I'm not sure I understand, or perhaps I wasnt clear enough. 

I'm happy with the amp that I have, I just want a flexible enough receiver to send the audio signal in different directions, according to the modes above - some amplified, and others at line level.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

This Onkyo 709 right now is your best bang for buck and offers the strongest amplification section for the price as well as pre outs to hook up your external amp. It also boasts a very high quality video processor for upscaling DVDs and no HD signals. THX certification and Audeyssey room correction.


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## bigjbk (Jan 28, 2012)

Billyo

I apologize I did not understand the **** parameters that you were speaking about and just suggested an easy option that was flexible for the future. I agree with Tonyvdb at this point ONKYO is a great choice. the Onkyo TX-NR509 is able to achieve your needs to preout to your main amps and will be flexible enough for your sub. Not sure about the programming though. You may have to play with it a bit to set it up to boost for Home theater use instead of gaming.

Good luck


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## billyo (Nov 14, 2011)

I don't suppose that there is a cheaper receiver around that will also do it? I'm not too concerned about power output, but I do want a good DSP/DAC and to be able to do the above things.

It seems that to get a full set of pre-outs, the price is starting to creep up a bit.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

In order to hook up 5.1 out to your PC speakers and switch to your external amp/towers without unhooking anything, I think you would have to set up the 2 channel system as zone 2. Tony's suggestion of the 709 is probably the cheapest option capable.


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## bigjbk (Jan 28, 2012)

The Onkyo TX-NR509 has full preouts and is about $300 at a local retail vendor.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Sorry, the 509 does NOT have any pre-outs other than for the sub. The 709 is the lowest Onkyo receiver that comes with Pre-outs

The Marantz SR5006 has pre outs for the sub and the front left and right speakers only so is another possibility.


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## bigjbk (Jan 28, 2012)

I stand corrected.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

bigjbk said:


> I stand corrected.


No issues :T 
Ive always found that strange that receivers that need pre- outs because of their small amplification sections are the ones without them. Of course we all know its so that they force us to buy the more expensive model.:spend:


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## billyo (Nov 14, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the ideas!

I friend of mine suggested that I could hook up the cheap PC speakers to the receiver for the rear and center channels until I replace them with better speakers. This would mean bypassing the combined "sub" and power amp on the PC speakers (they are just Logitech X-540 speakers like this:http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Surround-Speaker-System-Subwoofer/dp/B000JJM8XE)

I don't think I'd miss the sub much... the towers do a vastly much better job anyway.

This would mean I'd need to program in a mode to direct all audio to the TV via HDMI, another mode to direct 2.0 and 2.1 audio to the tower and sub (via pre-outs, a power amp and a plate amp) and a third mode to direct 5.1 audio to the tower and sub (via preouts, etc) and the centre and rear x-540's driven by the receiver itself.

Provided the x-540 speakers can be driven by the receiver, it should work I think... provided the volume is carefully controlled so as not to drive them with 80W or something through speakers that are probably only 10W (if that).

Its important to me that the recevier I eventually get has a great Digital Signal PRocessor - I've heard that Yamaha is pretty good relative to other consumer-level receivers. What does everyone think?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The problem with using a speaker system like the Logitech is that they ues odd speaker connections meaning that you would have to modify the wires (cut off the ends) in order to get them to hook up to a receiver. The also have lousy frequency response going only down to around 500Hz and as most subs only go up to around 120Hz you will be missing a huge amount of the sound.

Yamaha receivers are ok but right now Onkyo is the leader of the pack for features and a strong amplification section.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Nearly all the Major reciever makers offer their normal lines for the masses and then offer a higher end line featuring upgrades like better dacs, resistors, power supplies, etc, and improved overall engineering. 
Sony has ES
Onkyo has Integra
Pioneer has Elite
Yamaha has Aventage
Denon, Marantz, Harmon-Kardon dont offer these enhanced lines but are sold at the same prices as the ES, Integra, Elite, and Adventage lines, they offer similar build and feature sets and are thus competitors in this realm. 

*What do you plan on spending, what kind of budget are we looking at here?*


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> The problem with using a speaker system like the Logitech is that they ues odd speaker connections meaning that you would have to modify the wires (cut off the ends) in order to get them to hook up to a receiver. The also have lousy frequency response going only down to around 500Hz and as most subs only go up to around 120Hz you will be missing a huge amount of the sound.
> 
> Yamaha receivers are ok but right now Onkyo is the leader of the pack for features and a strong amplification section.


I second that. The quality of those speakers is poor compared to a speaker company that sells direct to the customer (no middle man). A good example of this is Ascend Audio, Axiom Audio (of Canada), or Emotiva (there are others). 

Logitech speakers are proprietary and designed to work in harmony (no pun intended) with the low powered amplifier they are bundled with. Using them on an amp they were't designed for could result in unintended consequences. 

(my old Technics SC-HD55 came with such a warning, a very nice system mind you)


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