# Headphones - Whats your Pick?



## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

Until I have finished my speaker build all of my critical listening has been relegated to my two pair of headphones- Sony MDR-7506 and a brand new (to me) pair of Beyerdynamic DT880s 2003 model with a slight acoustic modification. Both pairs are extremely linear with the DT880s having an ultra clean waterfall with near zero resonance although it has a small bump in the trebel response, but I use an EQ to take care of that for listening. 

I was wondering what everyones favorite sets of cans/in ears are. Post pics if you will. I willt ry to get some pics of my pairs up soon.

I use a Xynex 802 to power the headphones at home as it actually works as a great headphone amp and the DT880s are harder to drive.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: Headphones - Whats your Pick? You Asked!!!*

I am using two pair of headphones today in my systems. The Ultrasone Edition 9 is the better of the two. The Audio-Technica AT-ESW9 is my portable. The ESW9 has displaced my AT-ANC7 in my use. One would say that I am a hard-core headphone user. I have dedicated amps and sources just for them.

Other headphones that have come and gone but which I have enjoyed are:

AT-W5000 with it's matching amp the AT-HA5000;
AT-W1000;
AT-A900LTD;
AT-EW9;
Beyer DT880;
Ultrasone Proline 2500;
Ultrasone iCan;

My sources are the Lavry DA10 and a Beresford TC-7510 Mk6/v3 digital analog converters. 
My amps are the Berning micro-ZOTL and Yamamoto HA-02 (SEP).
Cables are Bettercables Silver Serpert and Virtual Dynamic Nite with Carda XLR-RCA Rhodium adapters for the Lavry DA10's XLR input.

I am using computer files in the FLAC format. These are being converted from USB to S/PDIF using either my M-Audio USB Audiophile or the Hagtech.com's HagUSB-XLR devices. I also stream my files from my computer over to my easy chair to a Squeezebox 3 into the Beresford feeding the micro-ZOTL.

For my portable I use the custom modified iPod 5.5g into a Portable amp from Xin called the Reference. Or I use this as a fixed unit using a dock on my table next to my easy chair from ALO. This dock uses Auricap's since the internal iPod coupling caps have been bypassed. For my iPod I use Apple Lossless format for all my music. 

Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp:









Berning micro-ZOTL:









Lavry DA10;









Ultrasone Edition 9 headphone on my ear:









Audio-Technica AT-ESW9:









Modified iPod in custom Dock from ALO located at my computer before moving it over to my easy chair area:









Atlantis Reference 3 Audio Rack beside my easy chair. This is a PR picture from manufacturer:


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## daniel (Dec 31, 2006)

I used to have stax headphone. I wouldn't go for anything less.


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## warpdrive (May 6, 2007)

I'm highly intrigued by the newest Denon models. I've tried all the AKG, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Grado models and I'm still searching for a headphone I consider balanced (jack of all trades).


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

warpdrive said:


> I'm highly intrigued by the newest Denon models. I've tried all the AKG, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Grado models and I'm still searching for a headphone I consider balanced (jack of all trades).


From what I have been told the Sony MDR-CD900ST is a almost perfectly tonally balanced headphone with the proper treble roll off [if not a tad aggressive] as called for by nearly all credible research in the area. While I am not sure if this is for you it might be a pair you would want to check out. From my understanding it is also not too hard to drive.


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## daniel (Dec 31, 2006)

Stay away from Sony. they give you cheap ( lesser quality) expensive ( you pay to much) product. Grado and Sennheiser are better product.

Buying a Sony is like buying a bose system. Using a car analogy, would be paying a Toyota price tag for a lada.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

Check out the Ultrasone models. You may find them interesting. I enjoyed my Proline 2500 (open model). They have a HFI-780 which is closed and seems to have some good reviews. The closed Proline 750 may or may not be what you want. 

My favorite of the Ultrasone's is the Edition 9 of course.


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

daniel said:


> Stay away from Sony. they give you cheap ( lesser quality) expensive ( you pay to much) product. Grado and Sennheiser are better product.
> 
> Buying a Sony is like buying a bose system. Using a car analogy, would be paying a Toyota price tag for a lada.


I don't know where you are getting your information, but as far as headphones go Sony makes some great products. I am not only speaking of build quality which happens to be superb on my MDR-7506, but also on sound quality as shown through actual credible measurements. 

Disliking a company just because of their name makes no sense it is one of the reasons so many audiophools have a hatred for Behringer - sheer nonsense.


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## daniel (Dec 31, 2006)

Plenty of companies do better product. Jecklin float, AKG, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Grado and stax are among those companies. Sorry If I have offended you. You're free to be a sony's fan.


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

daniel said:


> Plenty of companies do better product. Jecklin float, AKG, Sennheiser, Beyerdynamic, Grado and stax are among those companies. Sorry If I have offended you. You're free to be a sony's fan.


Blind faith or hate in a company gets one no where. My point was simply do not discount a company because of its name. I don't happen to like Sony - I like quality and what works the way it is supposed to. Sony happens to have some headphones that fit the bill and so does Beyerdynamic thats why I own products from both. 

I should point out when it comes to sound quality my choices are made by objective not subjective analysis so there is no question that the Sony headphones recommended/used perform well.

You are more than welcome to your opinion I am just asking what it is based off of as you have yet to offer anything but conjecture.


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## daniel (Dec 31, 2006)

For headphone you could try headfi. org.
For sony" "honesty", Theres a nice article in Uhfmag.com
If you google sony such, you 'll find many other that feel like I do.
But as I said you're free to disagree. And if you enjoy what you have, enjoy!


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## daniel (Dec 31, 2006)

p.s. I'm more a Stax fan than anything else regarding headphone, but there's one of there product that doesn't interest me at all, in ears headset.


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## Funkmonkey (Jan 13, 2008)

I second the recommendation for visiting Headfi.org Lots of info there. 
For IEM's I really like the qJAY's, 
Full size cans: Denon AH-D2000 hits the sweet spot for me (great all around head phone)


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## drf (Oct 22, 2006)

daniel said:


> For headphone you could try headfi. org.
> For sony" "honesty", Theres a nice article in Uhfmag.com
> If you google sony such, you 'll find many other that feel like I do.
> But as I said you're free to disagree. And if you enjoy what you have, enjoy!


Don't believe everything you read, and question what you do believe. 
E.G Sennheiser get awesome reviews for their wireless headphones, yet I measured a pair just last week and they could not reproduce above 7Khz. A simple FR test, I bet if I grabed a cheap set (A$50) of sony wired headphones they would reproduce at least to 18Khz. 

A lot of the reviews on the net are written by people who know what they like but don't like what is not fasionable. 

Food for thought anyway.


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## warpdrive (May 6, 2007)

I agree with the others.....saying "stay away from Sony" headphones is just based on unfounded bias. 

Have any of you guys heard the Sony R-10 headphones? They are discontinued now but they were $4500 headphones, and may headphone audiophiles say it's one of the best headphones ever made.


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## daniel (Dec 31, 2006)

Lot's of product from many companies, are not for sale in every countries. I've seen ( on paper ( well on computer screen) some Japanese products that look incredible and maybe could compete with krell, levinson... But they are not sold where I live. 

Sometimes, I have no idea what's the product is ( I even have never heard of the company), sometimes one product is a best buy in my country, but far more expensive overseas, where it's become a waste of time to try to sell those product there. It works both ways.


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## warpdrive (May 6, 2007)

Headphones are easy to import. Thanks to the Internet, we are aware of many headphones not sold here now through sites like Head-Fi.org. Lots of people import Audio Technica headphones which are very popular among audiophiles.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

I've actually listed to these at a local headphone meet:








Sennheiser Orpheus -- $15,000! Are they nice? Absolutely. Are they worth $15K -- I don't think I could justify that cost even if I were Bill Gates.

In real life, I have two sets of cans I use:

AKG K701 -- these just sound awesome to me. Someday I'll finish my headphone amp and really be able to take advantage of them, but still, they sound great to me. I've seen them online for $250 delivered.

Sennheiser HD280 Pro -- these are the cans I use when I want to block out the world. They're not as good or as comfortable as the 701's, but they're not bad. I think you can find these for ~$70 now.

JCD


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## mazersteven (Apr 5, 2007)

I'm just kicking back listening to some tune right now with my AKG 701's.


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

avaserfi said:


> I was wondering what everyones favorite sets of cans/in ears are.


Here are my preferences for different applications(_note that monetary amount is not relevant - units suggested are my favorite for each application - I have tried most high end headphones that exist under thorough sound tests compared to a reference, using the same test tracks at all times_).

Classical/Jazz/Acoustic Music: Sony MDR-CD900ST

Rock/Pop Music: Sony MDR-CD3000 (_modified with a cotton cloth over driver to reduce treble slightly_)

Neutral Reference Device: Beyer DT880 - 2003 Edition (_modified with an acoustical foam donut inside to correct for comb filtering and resonance problems in the treble that exist otherwise_)

Audio Feed Monitoring: Sony MDR-7506

-Chris


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## DRB (Feb 18, 2008)

I've long been a fan of headphone listening. I'm currently using Sennheiser HD600 and AKG 701 phones. The AKG's are my preference, but both are good.


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## Sheep (Feb 16, 2008)

Sennheiser HD500 Fuzion for HT/before bed.
BeyerDynamic DT100 for Monitoring (though I don't have any monitoring equipment nor a headphone source capable of powering these things).
Shure E2C In ears I bought for the gym, but I really don't like them.... yeah... wasted my monies. The Altec lansin IM7** or something are very nice. My friend has them and they blew away my Shures.
Plantronics headset for Gaming. Cheap, boom and sizzle, just what I like for TF2 and CS:S!

SheepStar


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## Guest (Feb 21, 2008)

I'm shopping around for some headphones myself. I plan to buy a couple of pairs at a time from Amazon and use their 30 day return policy to send back the ones I don't like. If I keep any over 30 days, I'll just sell them on HeadFi.

Headfi is definitely the place to look for info and reviews. I take a lot of the reviews with a good measure of salt since there seems to be a few 'questionable' reviews there. The 'For Sale' forum will let you get a few sets for lower cost and you can resell/trade as you go through your choices.

Good Luck!


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## bdbuss (May 3, 2008)

For the past few years, I've been listening to a pair of Etymotic ER-4P's. They took a bit of getting used in the beginning, because you feel very isolated. Almost creepily so. Also, you have to be prepared to push those puppies in as far as they'll go. Don't worry if they almost touch in the middle -- it happens to me all the time :blink:. It's essential for good bass. Once you relax and begin to "listen" to them, you'll be speechless. You will hear things at a level of detail you never thought possible, all at surprisingly low volumes. My cans prior were AKGs; from the upper part of their product range. I have to admit the 4P's create a much more open, but paradoxically intimate experience...... right in the middle of your brain!

But I'm also smart enough to realize that hearing is subjective...... by its very definition. (Go Sony Guy, Go!) Of course, this is just my opinion. Everybody's got one, and they usually.......


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## DRB (Feb 18, 2008)

Brad, I also own a pair of Etymotic 4P's. (Yes, I realize I have a problem...). I use them with a large classic Creative MP3 player and a HeadRoom portable amp for airline travel. Good isolation, good sound! I find the amp is a must.

BTW, I use them at home when my wife insists that the leakage from the regular cans is too much. Excellent. The _original_ in-ear monitors.


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi:
I used to have Senn 600s and AKG 701s, but I bought (about 6 weeks ago) a pair of Denon AH-D2000 cans, and I have to say IMHO they are the best all around I've owned. Color me extremely happy with them. One caveat: They are "closed ear" and as such can get a little warm to the ear after prolonged use. Having said that, it's not enough to bother me, and while these are VERY well balanced all around phones, their bass is phenomenal.
Cheers,
Konky.


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## BrianAbington (Mar 19, 2008)

I've had a pair of grados (old 60 series from the late 90's) I like them alot...but they are open backs so people next to me on an air plane don't nessicarily want to hear my heavy metal.

They sound awsome.


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## bdbuss (May 3, 2008)

DRB said:


> Brad, I also own a pair of Etymotic 4P's. (Yes, I realize I have a problem...). I use them with a large classic Creative MP3 player and a HeadRoom portable amp for airline travel. Good isolation, good sound! I find the amp is a must.
> 
> BTW, I use them at home when my wife insists that the leakage from the regular cans is too much. Excellent. The _original_ in-ear monitors.


Ray - I listen to mine with an iPod. I can get fairly high volume levels, so I never thought I needed an amp. I've seen them for sale though. What does it do for the sound? Because if you can convince me that I could get even "better" sound through them, I would be stunned.


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## drf (Oct 22, 2006)

In my opinion headphone amps, accessories and headphones over $50 are a waste of time and money if you are playing compressed music.


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

I don't play any compressed music anywhere at anytime on anything. Oh, that is of course unless it's compressed in the studio. I forgot like 90% of all the music's compressed today. Couldn't believe Santana's "Supernatural" has a whopping 9db of dynamic range...PATHETIC!
Cheers,
Konky.


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## DRB (Feb 18, 2008)

> Ray - I listen to mine with an iPod. I can get fairly high volume levels, so I never thought I needed an amp. I've seen them for sale though. What does it do for the sound? Because if you can convince me that I could get even "better" sound through them, I would be stunned.


I don't download any music files. My compressed files are home-made with a high bitrate LAME VBR approach. (No iTunes 192's here, please). That said, like everything else in audio, you have to try it for yourself. I get a cleaner, fuller sound with the HeadRoom amp and it is helpful with both WAV files and MP3's. IMHO.

I should also mention that the old Creative player I have features a real honest-to-God line out. I believe this is much better than the impedance mismatch that you get when driving your amp with the headphone out jack. (That doesn't stop me from using the amp with my iPod, however, on those rare occasions when I remove it from my car). Take a look around HeadFi or other headphone sites with regards to portable CD players, amps and headphones. There is a group of fans who look far and wide for older players with line out jacks. Many of them swear by a rig consisting of their classic Sony CD player, a headphone amp (often with tubes), and a pair of Sennheiser, AKG, or other quality headphones.


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## jliedeka (May 27, 2008)

My best headphones are Grado SR-60s. They are inexpensive (< $70) and sound light years better than any other inexpensive phones I've heard. I'm not a big can user so I wouldn't spend any more than that. I have compared them to the more expensive SR-225s. I did notice the difference but thought it was fairly subtle. Perhaps if I were using a good headphone amp, I would be more demanding. I got mine to use at the office and they are just plugged in to the headphone jack of my sound card.

Jim


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks for the tip, Jim. I've been on the look out for some good-sounding, but economical 'phones. I've been a Sennheiser fan for years, but I've grown weary of their cheesy replacable cables. They don't last long at all, and after 2-3 replacements you've spent the price of the headphones once again.

Regards,
Wayne


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Thanks for the tip, Jim. I've been on the look out for some good-sounding, but economical 'phones. I've been a Sennheiser fan for years, but I've grown weary of their cheesy replacable cables. They don't last long at all, and after 2-3 replacements you've spent the price of the headphones once again.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


If you are interested in high quality low cost headphones I strongly suggest you look into the Sony MDR-7506/Sony MDR-V6. They can be had new for about $90 and refurbished for around $60. These headphones are extremely accurate with a good build quality to boot.


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## Matt34 (Oct 20, 2006)

avaserfi said:


> If you are interested in high quality low cost headphones I strongly suggest you look into the Sony MDR-7506/Sony MDR-V6. They can be had new for about $90 and refurbished for around $60. These headphones are extremely accurate with a good build quality to boot.


I 2nd this advice. I've had about a dozen pairs of headphones under $175 and the Sony MDR-V6 are far and away my favorite.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks for the tip, Andrew (and to Matt for confirming). I saw you had previoiusly recommended the Sonys when I scanned the thread yesterday, but I wasn't aware they were so economical. One appears to be an over-ear studio type, the other a physically smaller on-ear model. Is there any difference between the two, sound-wise?

Regards,
Wayne


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Thanks for the tip, Andrew (and to Matt for confirming). I saw you had previoiusly recommended the Sonys when I scanned the thread yesterday, but I wasn't aware they were so economical. One appears to be an over-ear studio type, the other a physically smaller on-ear model. Is there any difference between the two, sound-wise?
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Both the MDR-7506 and the Sony MDR-V6 are closed over ear monitors that are almost exactly the same except for some minor cosmetic differences. I think you might have looked at a different Sony headphone that was smaller...

If you happen to be near or in College Station in August or after feel free to let me know and you can check out my pair. I will be moving down shortly.


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## Malice (May 1, 2006)

*Pre-amble*

So why did I want to review these headphones (see below)? Well, unlike the aficionados in here, I have no history of ever using headphones to listen to my music, even on an irregular basis. Perhaps I have been fortunate in that all the houses I have lived in (parents) or owned, have been detached so “loud” music per se has not been an issue to be overcome with the use of headphones. However, I accept that there is a school of thought which supports the view that irrespective of any “loud” issues, a good set of ‘phones can enhance the listening pleasure over and above that which one may experience with a good set of speakers. So with that in mind I wanted to go back to school to see if there was anything to this headphone malarkey! In some respects I hope that by not having any preconceptions about any brand, model or perceived performance that I could offer an honest opinion based on my experiences with them.

*Equipment*

A read of my sig may raise a few eyebrows in terms of stereo-phile ability, but like many people in here, it’s the ability of their AV systems to accommodate both multi-channel film sources and either multi channel or stereo music sources, that determines how content one may feel about one’s set up. After all, most AV amps have the so called “Pure” or “Pure Direct” mode turning off any video decoding and bypass most of the digital processing for the “audiophile” in every one of us.

That said I did break out my old trusty Nytech amplifier which I bought as part of a “stereo” system in the early 80’s. Back then £1,100 for an Nytech amp and tuner, Rega turntable, speakers, tuner, tape deck, stands and Naim cable was a lot of money and which I thought sounded great for the money. So having auditioned my Denon kit I powered up my Nytech amp for a comparison, but more about that later.

*Sources*

I fed signals from my DVD (SACD stereo and multi channel) and streamed digital signals off my PC through my Pinnacle Showcenter. My Rega deck needs a new cartridge so did not press that into action. As far as my music tastes are concerned, and being of a certain age (don’t ask), I gravitate to the progressive 70’s such as Pink Floyd, Genesis, Camel. Not that I should admit to this, but I also like the early Dire Straits stuff. I love my bass and like to feel it as well as hear it. I think I have my speakers/sub set up pretty well for dealing with music as well as films. “Comfortably Numb” at 0db cuts the mustard for me, as does the “Carpet Crawlers” off Genesis’ Seconds Out. That said I’ve been a recent convert to the Blue Man Group with some terrific bass lines, like Club Nowhere.

*Order of play*

Having no idea of any perceived pecking order, I auditioned in this order: MS1, RS1, AKG and HD650. After reviewing all of them I decided which I liked best and then tried to analyse why and then compare the others to them. So for those of you who haven’t fallen asleep by now, here’s my $0.02. For both comfort and listening pleasure the amp was set at about -6db.

*Grado RS1.*

Like with the MS1, I could not get on with the “cups” but preferred the “flatter” ones. That aside I thought the RS1’s were superb. The bass went low, was controlled and had excellent dynamics. I could not believe what I was hearing on some of the material; it was as if I was feeling the notes as well as hearing them, just like with my speakers. The mid-range and treble was excellent and supplied a soundstage which was totally enthralling. Instruments stood out where they needed to be without becoming detached from the overall soundstage. They were easy to listen to with no fatigue or feeling of harshness to them.

*Allesandro MS1*

In terms of mid-range and treble these units were very similar in performance to the RS1, but I did notice a very slight harshness to the upper frequencies which wasn’t present in the RS1’s. But it was only slight. They made a very good job of the bass but didn’t go as low as the RS1’s and didn’t have the dynamics of the RS1’s. The bass felt a little lacking in its presentation, as a result the overall soundstage was a little more “forward” than the Grado’s. Nonetheless I was impressed as well. Like the Grado’s they were easy to listen to but I felt over a prolonged period the slightly more forward treble may have proved a little tiresome.

On a second audition of these I am now of the opinion that on the material I auditioned they probably do go as low as the Grado RS1, but suffer slightly from focus at the lower end. A bit woolley or perhaps coloured. Not a lot, but not as clean as the RS1.

*AKG 701*

I liked the fit of the larger pads compared to the either of the options on the RS/MS/1’s. As per usual my initial interest is the bass reproduction. I’d say that these went a little lower than the MS1’s but not as low as the RS1’s, but they were so laid back in their presentation that the bass had little dynamics. Couple that with their equally laid back mid-range and treble the 701’s did not engage me as the other two. “Bland” is perhaps a little too unkind a description, but there is no doubt that overall the control of the entire frequency range was excellent. Perhaps they would be more suited to other material, classical perhaps, but for good gut wrenching bass pumping rock, they left me a little flat and cold. There was no doubting its pedigree, but as with cars people like different things for different reasons. No one would doubt the engineering excellence and comfort of say a Bentley, but when that fails to impress in a way that say a Ferrari would, then you know that each targets a different audience. Perhaps the same with headphones.

*Senn HD650*

When I put these on and cued up the first track which had a very strong thumping snare drum on the opening beat, I nearly had an accident which would have required a change in underwear. Man these were loud! To get them to the same perceived loudness as the others, I had to notch back my amp from -6db to about -13db. Once my heart had stopped racing I was only then able to asses their real performance on the now well auditioned tracks. Of course bass was the first on my list. There was no doubt that these were approaching the RS1’s in terms of absolute frequency reproduction, and the dynamics were pretty good too. However, to make an analogy with a 5.1 set up, the “sub” was uncontrolled and would have benefited from a bit of in-room EQ’ing. The bass, although loud and low and dynamic, appeared to be suffering from a lack of focus and control. With the RS1’s some of the bass lines were well placed and coherent, not so with the Senn’s. Disappointed. The mid-range was good from what I could tell, but the trebles were a tad too bright and harsh for my fifty year old ears. As a result I felt the soundstage was fragmented and the trebles were too much in my face, if that’s possible! The soundstage appeared nearly as three distinct performances each vying for your attention. I was tired of listening to these in no time at all. No matter how many times I put these on I could not like them for one minute.

*Other amp.*

I thought that perhaps my Denon amp, even in Pure Direct mode may not have been a good pairing for the audition, so I broke out my trusty Brit designed and built Nytech amp. Although it was a modest 25wpc, it nonetheless had produced very satisfying performances with my other kit. Well, it was immediately clear that with over 20 years of technological improvement under the Denon’s covers since the Nytech was introduced, that the Denon’s performance far exceed my aging beauty. Oh, well, back in the cupboard you go! At least I now know I gave the headphones the best shot I could muster.
*
Other’s input.*

I have two sons who were equally keen to have a listen and express an opinion as well. One son prefers Dance/Techno Music, and the other heavy metal/rock. The former preferred the MS1’s with their slightly more forward presentation than the RS1’s (#2), with the AKG (#3) and HD650 (#4) following behind. The latter (who by the way had invested in a £200 pair of in-ear plugs for his Ipod) took the approach of “first impressions” count and asked for a quick run through of the bassy Blue Man Group. In his view he’d have liked the RS1 for mid and treble and the bass of the HD650’s!

*Conclusion*

This exercise has underlined what most good advice advocates: audition any equipment for yourself and use materials which you both like and are familiar with. Don’t be swayed by other’s opinion’s as your ears are unique to you. You can’t please all of the people all of the time! For me the Grado RS1's had the edge in all departments.

On researching the pricing on these units and I have to say that bangs per buck has to go to the Allesandro MS-1. OK, $99 doesn't get you the "wood" effect, but hey, at that price it's a steal.

However, on revisiting all the above cans, and as much as the MS-1 absolute "value" could not beat IMO, having heard the Grado RS-1 I don't think I'd be happy with anything less. They did perform better in all departments than any of the others. "Better" in subtle ways which breathed an added dimension into the appreciation of the music.

Listening to Floyd's WYWH, the RS-1 really made an excellent job of the bass lines. It was if I could hear the bass guitar being plucked and producing a note, rather than just a bass note, which the MS-1 did. The RS1 just seemed to pull out every minute detail and presented with precision, control and dynamics. Awesome!


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

Malice said:


> *Pre-amble*
> 
> However, I accept that there is a school of thought which supports the view that irrespective of any “loud” issues, a good set of ‘phones can enhance the listening pleasure over and above that which one may experience with a good set of speakers.


I have no idea of how this can be true. I propose that those that say this, the overwhelming majority have not really heard a true high quality set of speakers set up in a proper acoustic space(_BTW, most so-called high-end speaker set ups probably do not qualify and are usually in poor acoustic spaces with non-ideal set up and mediocre speakers despite the high price tag_). No headphone can ever match the total experience of this situation, at least, for what I would guess is 99.9% of people. Some might prefer the un-realistic(_relative in comparison to a very high grade speaker set in proper acoustic space_) experience that headphones give, no matter what, but I think these will be in the very small minority.

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> I have no idea of how this can be true. I propose that those that say this, the overwhelming majority have not really heard a true high quality set of speakers set up in a proper acoustic space(_BTW, most so-called high-end speaker set ups probably do not qualify and are usually in poor acoustic spaces with non-ideal set up and mediocre speakers despite the high price tag_). No headphone can ever match the total experience of this situation, at least, for what I would guess is 99.9% of people. Some might prefer the un-realistic(_relative in comparison to a very high grade speaker set in proper acoustic space_) experience that headphones give, no matter what, but I think these will be in the very small minority.
> 
> -Chris


That is saying a lot, for both the Sennheisers and AKG`s are great cans. The Denon`s are also a l;ot more, if I remember correctly. Are you using a Headphone amp as well? If so, what kind?


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> That is saying a lot, for both the Sennheisers and AKG`s are great cans. The Denon`s are also a l;ot more, if I remember correctly. Are you using a Headphone amp as well? If so, what kind?


I have evaluated a great number (majority) of the highest end headphones in existence, and not one can come close to a very high grade speaker system set up in a good room acoustic. I would not even consider the Sennhesier and AKG units listed above to anywhere near the best headphones I have heard. The Stax Omega II and Sennheiser Orpheus, and even the 2003 Beyer DT880 with dampening modification and used with DSP EQ(_DT880 has no similarity to stock version in this case_) are rather much superior. But still, they are not comparable to a very high grade speaker system. By very high grade speaker system, I will define this as commercially, a minimum of B&W 802D which is controlled by a high quality DSP EQ and properly acoustically treated room and proper placement for ideal sound. No revelation here, as headphones can not meet the requirements of human perception for highest sound quality, physically, unless the aid of special DSP user customized/set HRTF compensation is employed(_which is not available for consumer use yet_) and then, there is still the problem of tactile energy detection of midbass to bass frequencies by the body that is not existent with a headphone. The models of headphone amps I used are not of any relevance.

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> I have evaluated a great number (majority) of the highest end headphones in existence, and not one can come close to a very high grade speaker system set up in a good room acoustic. I would not even consider the Sennhesier and AKG units listed above to anywhere near the best headphones I have heard. The Stax Omega II and Sennheiser Orpheus, and even the 2003 Beyer DT880 with dampening modification and used with DSP EQ(_DT880 has no similarity to stock version in this case_) are rather much superior. But still, they are not comparable to a very high grade speaker system. By very high grade speaker system, I will define this as commercially, a minimum of B&W 802D which is controlled by a high quality DSP EQ and properly acoustically treated room and proper placement for ideal sound. No revelation here, as headphones can not meet the requirements of human perception for highest sound quality, physically, unless the aid of special DSP user customized/set HRTF compensation is employed(_which is not available for consumer use yet_) and then, there is still the problem of tactile energy detection of midbass to bass frequencies by the body that is not existent with a headphone. The models of headphone amps I used are not of any relevance.
> 
> -Chris




Okay, that is fine, but I was not talking about comparison to a speaker system. I was looking at headphone listening for those of us that love and enjoy it, and want the best they can get. I have heard the Beyers, and I think they are very good. The Stax I heard in not the best conditions, HE2007, and was not impressed.
Especially, considering the amount of money Stax asks for their headphone systems. I have read good things about a few of the Denon`s, but have yet to hear or demo them as of yet. I was trying to get your opinion, headphone to headphone, not against high end speaker systems. I don`t think those of us who listen, listen for private enjoyment, want the best quality of sound we can get, but are not comparing that sound to our own speaker systems.

I could be wrong, but..........................


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> Okay, that is fine, but I was not talking about comparison to a speaker system. I was looking at headphone listening for those of us that love and enjoy it, and want the best they can get. I have heard the Beyers, and I think they are very good. The Stax I heard in not the best conditions, HE2007, and was not impressed.
> Especially, considering the amount of money Stax asks for their headphone systems. I have read good things about a few of the Denon`s, but have yet to hear or demo them as of yet. I was trying to get your opinion, headphone to headphone, not against high end speaker systems. I don`t think those of us who listen, listen for private enjoyment, want the best quality of sound we can get, but are not comparing that sound to our own speaker systems.
> 
> I could be wrong, but..........................


I am sorry, I thought it was about comparing to speakers...

In that case, the best you can do, would be likely the Beyer DT880 2003 Edition with the modification - a 1/8" thick slice of Auralex foam in a donut shape placed over the driver baffle to remove most of the reflections/resonances that will otherwise occur. Measured and audible difference is significant. Once you do this, then use a precision DSP EQ to adjust the response to any sound signature that you so desire. Because of the extraordinary neutral behavior of the DT880 with modification, it is about as close to a perfect blank slate as exists at ANY price in the headphone world of which I know about. I can't recommend the new model DT880 as I have not analyzed/measured this unit.

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> I am sorry, I thought it was about comparing to speakers...
> 
> In that case, the best you can do, would be likely the Beyer DT880 2003 Edition with the modification - a 1/8" thick slice of Auralex foam in a donut shape placed over the driver baffle to remove most of the reflections/resonances that will otherwise occur. Measured and audible difference is significant. Once you do this, then use a precision DSP EQ to adjust the response to any sound signature that you so desire. Because of the extraordinary neutral behavior of the DT880 with modification, it is about as close to a perfect blank slate as exists at ANY price in the headphone world of which I know about. I can't recommend the new model DT880 as I have not analyzed/measured this unit.
> 
> -Chris


Very interesting. Have you listened to a pair of balanced phones. When thet are totally re-wired with a balanced amp. What a difference!! However, your way seems to be less expensive, but would require some skill. Also, what and where would suggest to get a DSP EQ?


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## denydog (Dec 20, 2008)

Hi, interesting thread.

I'm new to quality headphones, only having been using a pair of Etymotic Er6i's with the GPS MP3 player on my motorcycle.

Just today though, I purchased a pair of AKG 701's. From everything I've read, these need to be driven from a good low impedance headphone amp, and be run in for 200 hours or so, to sound any good. In spite of that, I plugged them into my NAD Amplifier (200 ohm) headphone socket, and had a listen.

They actually sound pretty good to me, but what do I know? I'm expecting a Grace m902 headphone amp delivered in a few days. Meanwhile I'll leave the phones running to get some time on them while I'm waiting for the Grace. Can hardly wait to hear what they sound like then!


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> Very interesting. Have you listened to a pair of balanced phones. When thet are totally re-wired with a balanced amp. What a difference!! However, your way seems to be less expensive, but would require some skill. Also, what and where would suggest to get a DSP EQ?


There is nothing that using a balanced amp can do to change the sound audibly, comparing to properly working systems, of balanced and unbalanced, both designed to be neutral/flat and with equivalent output impedance range. Either people are not taking care to level match(a simple 1db SPL difference will make something sound different and better), or comparing colored/eq that is hardwired, or are simply experiencing the age old pure placebo effect as is so common with wire/cable comparisons.

A suitable DSP EQ is a Behringer DCX2496 and DEQ2496. I recommend the DCX as first choice - it can do a lot more than simple EQ - and it has a computer interface GUI making it super-easy and convenient to set up and use. You can literally draw the modification response you want on screen on a graph using your mouse.  You can use it to do multiple headphone comparisons(it has 6 discrete output channels that can be configured in any way you like , with different processing on each channel, if you desire).

Source-->DCX2496-->headphone amplifier. Please note that you may have to use a 10db or 12db attenuator on the output of the DCX to the headphone amplifier. It has higher voltage output as compared to standard consumer devices, and as a result, it will even amplify the noise/hiss buried deep in the signal when feeding a very sensitive consumer RCA input. Harrison labs makes a passive inline attenuator in various values available from www.partsexpress.com or other such places.

On the higher dollar side, the Stax Omega II is pretty nice IMO. One of the best 'overall' phones as-is with no EQ or modification for general use, and strongly suited to classical, opera, jazz and other acoustic based music. But 80's pop sounded good on them too.  Of course, using such an EQ as I recommended would be beneficial on that as well, expanding your ability to customize it's signature to your preference(s). The Omega II has superb build quality, unlike most headphones. It is finely finished leathers and metals with plastic only where it's suited for wear points or insulation. Fit and finish really makes it feel almost worth the price.  Unlike the famous Sennheiser Orpheus, which has lots of plastic cheap feeling parts and even used FAKE PLEATHER on the top head band. Orpheus feels and looks like it should cost no more than $400-$500.  Sony MDR-7506($100) looks/feels like it is made better...

-Chris

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> There is nothing that using a balanced amp can do to change the sound audibly, comparing to properly working systems, of balanced and unbalanced, both designed to be neutral/flat and with equivalent output impedance range. Either people are not taking care to level match(a simple 1db SPL difference will make something sound different and better), or comparing colored/eq that is hardwired, or are simply experiencing the age old pure placebo effect as is so common with wire/cable comparisons.
> 
> A suitable DSP EQ is a Behringer DCX2496 and DEQ2496. I recommend the DCX as first choice - it can do a lot more than simple EQ - and it has a computer interface GUI making it super-easy and convenient to set up and use. You can literally draw the modification response you want on screen on a graph using your mouse.  You can use it to do multiple headphone comparisons(it has 6 discrete output channels that can be configured in any way you like , with different processing on each channel, if you desire).
> 
> ...




Hmmm............. I doubt its a placebo effect for me. I`m not losing my mind yet. And, I know what I heard. And, many others reviewers have as well. However, this Behringer eq intrigues me. How much are we talking here, dollars and cents?
Now, another matter. At the HE2007 show here in New York at the Grand Hyatt Hotel at Grand Central, I got to hear some Stax headphones. Always wanted to for years, but it seemed very hard to find dealers who carried them.
Anyway, they had a pair, roughly $1995.00, I do not remember the model no. Plugged directly into a universal cd player. What a disappointment. Now I know, there was no headphone amp, which does matter to a degree. But, for everything that I read, heard about Stax phones, I was highly disappointed.
Also, on hand was a pair of Beyer Dynamics DT880`s. Roughly $400.00. They sounded better. Sure, not the best conditions, but............... and you mention build quality between the Stax and Sennheiser. But what about comfort?. Can not speak to the Orpheus because I have not heard them, but read the sound was excellent, and read nothing about its construction that was negative. But the Beyer DT880 was a lot more comfortable when they first got on my head.
Stax demands a premium for their phones. Comfort for extended listening sessions, should be a priority as well.
One of my first pair of headphones in high school was a pair of Koss quadraphonic headphones with a 2ch-4ch switch on the earcup. I loved them. But after a while, my ears started to hurt a little, I would have to take them off. So, though not the best conditions, I was not impressed (though was ready to be) with Stax. But the Behringer sounds real interesting to me.


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## ikant (Jan 6, 2009)

avaserfi said:


> Sony MDR-7506


...Is all I have to say... Actually, I've been adoring these as since 2001 while needing a backup for a mixdown. slapped 'em on my head and everything didn't sound the way we expected or WANTED. After the re-work the mix sounded waaaaay better and since we've been sold. I'm "spotlighting" the accuracy of these cans and they remain my favorite for closed-ear type headphones. 

The only replacement I see for them will be the '7509 [but at more than twice the cost it's doubtful for an immediate replacement]. :coocoo:


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

ikant said:


> ...Is all I have to say... Actually, I've been adoring these as since 2001 while needing a backup for a mixdown. slapped 'em on my head and everything didn't sound the way we expected or WANTED. After the re-work the mix sounded waaaaay better and since we've been sold. I'm "spotlighting" the accuracy of these cans and they remain my favorite for closed-ear type headphones.
> 
> The only replacement I see for them will be the '7509 [but at more than twice the cost it's doubtful for an immediate replacement]. :coocoo:


Are these designed specifically for deejaying and mixing?


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

deacongreg said:


> Are these designed specifically for deejaying and mixing?


The 7506 headphones are designed for use as professional monitors.


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> Hmmm............. I doubt its a placebo effect for me. I`m not losing my mind yet. And, I know what I heard. And, many others reviewers have as well.


It has nothing to do with 'losing your mind'. Every human is subject to the same effects. It is a psychological function of EVERY human's brain. No one is immune: not you, me or your neigbors.  Psychological effects such as these are thoroughly documented in the psychological texts. Avaserfi more so specializes in the specifics of this psychological field - he can explain in depth and provide you with specific references.

And what is to say it was imagined? There may be a response difference built into the balanced comparison that you heard. And if the comparison you did was not precisely level matched to within 0.1dB between both amplifiers, it is automatically an invalid comparison. If it still sounds different under a proper blinded evaluation, you can bet there is a measurable difference that is correlated with the auditory perception texts.



> However, this Behringer eq intrigues me. How much are we talking here, dollars and cents?


The DCX2496 is about $275-$300. You can find factory refurbished units sometimes for $200. Last place that had them refurbed was www.musiciansfriend.com. The unit uses XLR balanced inputs and outputs. You can feed it's input with regular consumer unbalanced line; just get an RCA to XLR adapter. If you encounter hum or noise from a ground loop, I recommend using an ART DTI converter. It has RCA inputs and XLR outputs; it uses a transformer to isolate the ground and convert the unbalanced signal to balanced.

For the output, if your amp does not have balanced inputs, you may need to use a 6-12dB in line passive attenuator. The DCX outputs a substantially higher output voltage than unbalanced devices, causing the noise floor to also be greatly amplified. Feeding this to consumer inputs which expect a very small voltage level can often cause audible hiss to occur. Harrison Labs makes a nice little RCA inline attenuator that you can get at www.partsexpress.com . 12dB attenuation is probably the best suited to most consumer RCA inputs. The DCX is very powerful and can do all sort of things -- but no matter what the use - I recommend using the GUI software and controlling it from a PC. It makes things easier and provides you with the ability to manipulate the curve with your mouse on a FR graph. Very nifty. This EQ is nothing like a 'graphic EQ'. It is a precision device and can do very subtle or very extensive modification. You may also use it to do unique things like integrate your headphones with a subwoofer. Some people do this - because it puts the tactile feeling you get with speakers into the headphone listening experience. I do recommend a very high quality subwoofer to integrate with headphones, however. The DCX can also manipulate the subjective 'tightness' of the bass from the subwoofer if you know the correct functions to use.




> Now, another matter. At the HE2007 show here in New York at the Grand Hyatt Hotel at Grand Central, I got to hear some Stax headphones. Always wanted to for years, but it seemed very hard to find dealers who carried them.
> Anyway, they had a pair, roughly $1995.00, I do not remember the model no. Plugged directly into a universal cd player. What a disappointment. Now I know, there was no headphone amp, which does matter to a degree.


The Omega II's price at any regular dealer is far higher than $2k. But I believe you can get it from discount importer houses for about $2k. You can't use the Omega II without a special amplifier - it is not possible. So I sound more like you heard an electret headphone(it's an electrostatic with perament charged plates - not using bias voltage powered plates) if it did not require an amplifier. The Omega II is the only Stax I have found to be satisfactory. Others are a sore disappointment to me. This is the Omega II: http://www.stereophile.com/headphones/895/


> But, for everything that I read, heard about Stax phones, I was highly disappointed.
> Also, on hand was a pair of Beyer Dynamics DT880`s. Roughly $400.00. They sounded better. Sure, not the best conditions, but............... and you mention build quality between the Stax and Sennheiser. But what about comfort?.


The Orpheus is very comfortable. The Omega II is so-so but not bad to me. The DT880 is also pretty good at comfort. I never listen to stock DT880 and the current model appears to have even more elevated treble than the old version that I have from 2003. But that could be simple unit to unit variation of manufacturing tolerances that I experienced.

-Chris


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## ikant (Jan 6, 2009)

avaserfi said:


> The 7506 headphones are designed for use as professional monitors.


Exactly. I have even used the Sony MDR7506 for everything from DJing/Remixing to Gaming and Movie viewing (not to disturb the Mrs addle: ). And nooooo disappointments, and have worm 'em for over 7 hours during a long Gaming session with my sons....needless to say, but will, VERY comfortable.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, I thank you for answering my questions and concerns. I have to decide if 200-300.00 iis a worthy investment for the Behringer.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

Chris, no doubt you seem to know something about Headphone listening, however from my experience, I still feel uncomfortable about this placebo effect.
Check this out, and get back to me.
http://www.headphone.com/products/product-resources/balanced-headphones/


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

My pick, well ths pick is because of the one great experience I had with these headphones. While working for Harvey Sound on 45th right off 5th avenue in Manhattan, a real nice gentleman came in. i was brand new, maybe 2 days. One of the senior salesman ushered me into the sound room, where we had our Audio Research amplifiers and KEF speakers.
All he had was his headphones, and a portable Sony cd player going directly in it. No Headroom amps, Benchmark, Grace, nothing!! When he placed these cans on my head, I could not believe the amount of detail I heard. The Sound was excellent, thunderous bass, midrange for vocals was very good, I mean, unbelievable.
Now, what you also need to know is, at this time, though I had a pair of Koss Pro 4AA, I believe thats right, (Quadrophonic headphones) with a 2 channel/4 channel switch and volume controls on the earcups, I really knew nothing about the whole headphone game at that the time. This was my first experience of high end headphones.
They were the Grado Rs1`s. Superb!! I never forgot that demo. Now, if i could demo the Grado RS1`s, AKG701`s in white, and the Sennheiser HD650`s for myself, and make up my own mind, that would be fantastic.
http://www.hometheaterreview.com/eq...do_rs-1_reference_series_headphones002289.php


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> Chris, no doubt you seem to know something about Headphone listening, however from my experience, I still feel uncomfortable about this placebo effect.
> Check this out, and get back to me.
> http://www.headphone.com/products/product-resources/balanced-headphones/


Everyone feels uncomfortable when they realize that their perceptions are subject to far more than actual physical changes.

Tyll is a great guy; I have met him a couple of times - but his website is just promoting his products. He offers zero credible information related to perceptual research as to why a balanced line driver makes a difference in any audible way whatsoever. I know quite a bit about the related perceptual research - and I don't know of a single thing that would give a balanced line driver any audible improvement. If you can find any credible references, I would be glad to read them. At this time, I can not see it for anything other than an audiophile issue. I have listened to, in depth, using careful references - to most of the high end phones on and off the market now - and the only thing that has ever made a headphone sound great was a good quality recording and a great headphone to begin with. Fancy cables, amps, etc.; need not apply for real differences. Crossfeed is a useful feature for some people: so this should be considered.

-Chris


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Ok, I kind of feel like i might be throwing gas in to a fire, but I've heard from an amp engineer that balanced inputs aren't mecessary unless you have exceptionally long runs. In fact, he said he prefers unbalanced to balanced for regular runs.

Can't verify this with anything other than pure hearsay, but thought I'd throw it out there.

Back to our favorite headphones.. still digging my 701's. I had a chance to compare them directly with a pair of Senn 650's. I can totally understand the appeal of the 650's for folks, but preferred my 701's for their "accuracy". Scientific and free of bias? Nope, but what can you do? :bigsmile:

JCD


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> Everyone feels uncomfortable when they realize that their perceptions are subject to far more than actual physical changes.
> 
> Tyll is a great guy; I have met him a couple of times - but his website is just promoting his products. He offers zero credible information related to perceptual research as to why a balanced line driver makes a difference in any audible way whatsoever. I know quite a bit about the related perceptual research - and I don't know of a single thing that would give a balanced line driver any audible improvement. If you can find any credible references, I would be glad to read them. At this time, I can not see it for anything other than an audiophile issue. I have listened to, in depth, using careful references - to most of the high end phones on and off the market now - and the only thing that has ever made a headphone sound great was a good quality recording and a great headphone to begin with. Fancy cables, amps, etc.; need not apply for real differences. Crossfeed is a useful feature for some people: so this should be considered.
> 
> -Chris




Well, i guess we will agree, to disagree.


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> Well, i guess we will agree, to disagree.


Okay. But what do you disagree with, exactly? I'm not really clear on that?

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> Okay. But what do you disagree with, exactly? I'm not really clear on that?
> 
> -Chris


Listen, I respect your opinion, and your knowledge in this area. However, what you want me to believe is, that all the reviewers from Stereophile, and the Absolute Sound, (magazines I read) are all wrong. From my own knowledge, their are musiciams that use headphone amps and headphones everyday. But, you want me to believe, that all of them also have a placebo effect.

I think its time to leave this subject anyone. BTW, a response from Headroom.
https://webmail.optimum.net/en/mail.html?lang=en&laurel=on&cal=0


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

Well, gentlemen. Sennheiser has a new reference headphone, the HD800.

http://www.sennheiser.com/sennheiser/home_en.nsf/root/spec_hd800


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> Listen, I respect your opinion, and your knowledge in this area. However, what you want me to believe is, that all the reviewers from Stereophile, and the Absolute Sound, (magazines I read) are all wrong. From my own knowledge, their are musiciams that use headphone amps and headphones everyday. But, you want me to believe, that all of them also have a placebo effect.
> 
> I think its time to leave this subject anyone. BTW, a response from Headroom.
> https://webmail.optimum.net/en/mail.html?lang=en&laurel=on&cal=0


It is reality that no one is immune to placebo. Why is it that when knowledge of cables and/or devices under test often eliminates the 'obvious' differences that often are claimed to exist by said audiophiles?

BTW, if you want the Headroom response to be readable, you will have to copy and paste the text body to the forum.

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> It is reality that no one is immune to placebo. Why is it that when knowledge of cables and/or devices under test often eliminates the 'obvious' differences that often are claimed to exist by said audiophiles?
> 
> BTW, if you want the Headroom response to be readable, you will have to copy and paste the text body to the forum.
> 
> -Chris


I do not understand your response, and you really did not address my comment, but thats ok. Here is the headroom response. Hello Greg,

I must say Tyll found it amusing -- and does not know this guy from Adam. Our highly-educated, occassionally overly-serious HeadRoom Audio Engineering Dept also shared a hearty laugh... so thanks for that!



I guess the proof is in the actual listening for most folks. We attend audio events all the time (last one was at the huge Denver Audio Festival in early October '08) where we set up identical HeadRoom rigs using the same exact audio source and same headphones, one balanced & one unbalanced, and let all listeners decide for themselves. After in-depth listening sessions [many using their own favorite CDs], 90%-95% of evaluators take the balanced/XLR route without debate, including serious audiophiles, music producers, and well-experienced poindexter types.

As you know, recording studios and professional session/working musicians typically employ 'balanced-drive'/XLR systems throughout most of their gear rigs (mics, interconnects, mixing boards, etc ... We're proud to say our HeadRoom balanced-drive headphone units are now operating in well over 150 recording studios, soundtrack/film labs, digital-design software developers, and university audio/video media centers worldwide (...the list of rock stars & famous jazz players using our stuff is vast!) Obviously, that caliber of customer can discern accurate sound and are not the sort to be swayed only by Tyll's massive amounts of charisma!

-- 
Please feel free to reply if any further questions!

Cheers,
www.headphone.com

Jorge Cervera
Sales/Product Manager
HeadRoom Corporation
2020 Gilkerson Drive
Bozeman Montana USA
59715
1-800-828-8184 USA Toll-Free
1-406-587-9466 International
[email protected]


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## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

deacongreg said:


> I guess the proof is in the actual listening for most folks. We attend audio events all the time (last one was at the huge Denver Audio Festival in early October '08) where we set up identical HeadRoom rigs using the same exact audio source and same headphones, one balanced & one unbalanced, and let all listeners decide for themselves. After in-depth listening sessions [many using their own favorite CDs], 90%-95% of evaluators take the balanced/XLR route without debate, including serious audiophiles, music producers, and well-experienced poindexter types.


Ok, here's a question: was care taken to level-match the headphones in this comparison, and if so by what means? All else equal, the dual-differential drive will naturally be 6db louder than unbalanced, since it's driving with twice the voltage. All else equal, 6db is plenty to make the perceived difference of dull to dynamic. Without well matched levels (less than 1db), it's never a fair comparison.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

mulveling said:


> Ok, here's a question: was care taken to level-match the headphones in this comparison, and if so by what means? All else equal, the dual-differential drive will naturally be 6db louder than unbalanced, since it's driving with twice the voltage. All else equal, 6db is plenty to make the perceived difference of dull to dynamic. Without well matched levels (less than 1db), it's never a fair comparison.


Hey Mike, whats up? I`m sure they did. I did not ask them, but I have no reason to believe that they would not be thorough, and do things the right way. These guys at Headroom know their stuff. And as Jorge said, there are many musicians, recording and studio engineers, and artists that use this equipment. And I`m to believe that this is one big scam. 

Anything of course is possible..............but................. That is why I said, we will disagree on this one, before everyone here on the forum starts thinking this way too.


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## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

deacongreg said:


> Hey Mike, whats up? I`m sure they did. I did not ask them, but I have no reason to believe that they would not be thorough, and do things the right way. These guys at Headroom know their stuff. And as Jorge said, there are many musicians, recording and studio engineers, and artists that use this equipment. And I`m to believe that this is one big scam.
> 
> Anything of course is possible..............but................. That is why I said, we will disagree on this one, before everyone here on the forum starts thinking this way too.


Hey Greg,
I get that the balanced 4ch version of a particular amp has irrefutable technical advantages over regular 2ch - common mode noise rejection and double the slew rate. What I'm skeptical of (though not 100%), for most hifi headphone systems, are the claims that balanced drive alone makes a _significant audible difference_ - once care has been taken to match levels. I'm skeptical because I've heard truly top-notch sound from both unbalanced and balanced headphone systems - and I wouldn't say that the balanced systems stand out _over_ the best unbalanced systems. Once a certain level of amp quality (in design & implementation) has been reached, the choice of headphone has been the overwhelming determinant of system sound, followed by source quality.

All that said, I do know that Headroom makes some quality products without the B. S. like a lot of other audio companies. Also, the new HD800 has ignited an intense desire within me (big fan of the HD650 here)...I'm trying not to, but I may have to break down and preorder from the Headroom guys...


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

mulveling said:


> Hey Greg,
> I get that the balanced 4ch version of a particular amp has irrefutable technical advantages over regular 2ch - common mode noise rejection and double the slew rate. What I'm skeptical of (though not 100%), for most hifi headphone systems, are the claims that balanced drive alone makes a _significant audible difference_ - once care has been taken to match levels. I'm skeptical because I've heard truly top-notch sound from both unbalanced and balanced headphone systems - and I wouldn't say that the balanced systems stand out _over_ the best unbalanced systems. Once a certain level of amp quality (in design & implementation) has been reached, the choice of headphone has been the overwhelming determinant of system sound, followed by source quality.
> 
> All that said, I do know that Headroom makes some quality products without the B. S. like a lot of other audio companies. Also, the new HD800 has ignited an intense desire within me (big fan of the HD650 here)...I'm trying not to, but I may have to break down and preorder from the Headroom guys...



I was on Sennheiser`s site yesterday. I wonder what the price will be for the new HD800`s? I hear you on the unbalanced or balanced piece. Maybe I `ll send your reply over to headroom, and see what they say.


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## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

deacongreg said:


> I was on Sennheiser`s site yesterday. I wonder what the price will be for the new HD800`s? I hear you on the unbalanced or balanced piece. Maybe I `ll send your reply over to headroom, and see what they say.


I hear pre-orders are being taken at the MSRP of $1400. Ouch, but they should be killer and are expected to compete with much more expensive headphones (the few and legendary that they are). The design looks a lot to me like the discontinued (and extremely rare) Sony Qualia 010, ring radiator driver and all. The HD650 can already compete with the best, so who knows what this HD800 can do.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

mulveling said:


> I hear pre-orders are being taken at the MSRP of $1400. Ouch, but they should be killer and are expected to compete with much more expensive headphones (the few and legendary that they are). The design looks a lot to me like the discontinued (and extremely rare) Sony Qualia 010, ring radiator driver and all. The HD650 can already compete with the best, so who knows what this HD800 can do.


That is high. We are now talking Stax Headphones price range. For that money, they`re going to have t be really impressive.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> I was on Sennheiser`s site yesterday. I wonder what the price will be for the new HD800`s? I hear you on the unbalanced or balanced piece. Maybe I `ll send your reply over to headroom, and see what they say.


Like I said, my guys at Headroom do not play! Here is their response to you:Howdy Greg,

Balanced-drive headphone systems alleviate restrictive high-impedance loads and are naturally louder versus identical single-ended rigs -- which can indeed make the SQ seem "better" for most listeners when the volume output levels are not properly matched. 

Hence, in order to correctly evaluate unbalanced vs. balanced headphone systems, they must have their volume outputs matched, an easy process using headphone-dedicated spl gauges. HeadRoom audio engineers use our own uber-accurate SPL gauges which are calibrated regularly at the Montana State University EE Dept.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

deacongreg said:


> Listen, I respect your opinion, and your knowledge in this area. However, what you want me to believe is, that all the reviewers from Stereophile, and the Absolute Sound, (magazines I read) are all wrong. From my own knowledge, their are musiciams that use headphone amps and headphones everyday. But, you want me to believe, that all of them also have a placebo effect.
> 
> I think its time to leave this subject anyone. BTW, a response from Headroom.
> https://webmail.optimum.net/en/mail.html?lang=en&laurel=on&cal=0


While Chris is more willing than I to consider that there may be factors that we do not understand that contribute to what some feel that they hear, I cannot find fault with him asking for actual evidence, or even credible suggestions regarding why there might be a difference. The fact is, Greg, that we are all affected by placebo effects as well as prior expectation. When a whole industry is built upon the notion that tweaking the technology can result in audible differences, it is not unreasonable to expect that people will be predisposed to hear differences, particularly in subjective evaluations without appropriate controls. 

There are reasons for a balanced system, but I am not sure that a great case can be made for using it with headphones. Regardless, it would be easy enough to measure differences and it makes one wonder why, if you are trying to make a case for a particular technology, you would not document it with appropriate testing and data. I think this is Chris' beef with lots of claims, and I have to agree. There certainly may be factors that we don't fully understand that affect the ability to percieve differences that we have not explained, but when products are marketed with claims that do not appear to be supported by any serious attept to show an effect, one has to be skeptical.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> While Chris is more willing than I to consider that there may be factors that we do not understand that contribute to what some feel that they hear, I cannot find fault with him asking for actual evidence, or even credible suggestions regarding why there might be a difference. The fact is, Greg, that we are all affected by placebo effects as well as prior expectation. When a whole industry is built upon the notion that tweaking the technology can result in audible differences, it is not unreasonable to expect that people will be predisposed to hear differences, particularly in subjective evaluations without appropriate controls.
> 
> There are reasons for a balanced system, but I am not sure that a great case can be made for using it with headphones. Regardless, it would be easy enough to measure differences and it makes one wonder why, if you are trying to make a case for a particular technology, you would not document it with appropriate testing and data. I think this is Chris' beef with lots of claims, and I have to agree. There certainly may be factors that we don't fully understand that affect the ability to percieve differences that we have not explained, but when products are marketed with claims that do not appear to be supported by any serious attept to show an effect, one has to be skeptical.


I hear you, and understand. However, for some reason it did not come across that way to me. Or, he did not say it clearly like you are saying it.

And lets face it, that can be said about any component or product. As far as proof, this all started with his comment. There was no burden of proof. I reacted to what he said. I think from the response that I posted from the guys at Headroom, their testing is truthful, logical and above board. And as you can see, they had no problem showing what they do. And I never asked them!!
So, if its true that Chris feels they way you do, okay, but I never expected for this to get this deep!! 

It just seemed to me that Chris came across to me as this know it all Headphone expert, and that his, and only his findings stand alone. And, while it may be true what you guys are saying, I didn`t think it needed to go there. It sounded like the rest of us are dumb, and have no idea what is going on. Hey, maybe I over reacted. n case you missed this post, for your edification:Howdy Greg,

Balanced-drive headphone systems alleviate restrictive high-impedance loads and are naturally louder versus identical single-ended rigs -- which can indeed make the SQ seem "better" for most listeners when the volume output levels are not properly matched. 

Hence, in order to correctly evaluate unbalanced vs. balanced headphone systems, they must have their volume outputs matched, an easy process using headphone-dedicated spl gauges. HeadRoom audio engineers use our own uber-accurate SPL gauges which are calibrated regularly at the Montana State University EE Dept.

What is also interesting is, since I have sent these response from Headroom, I have not heard from Chris. Just as well, cause I`m done with it now. My intention is to have fun on this forum, not battle.



Anyway, if you want headphones, the guys at Headroom are great, period.


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

Icallio is correct in regards to my intentions in my replies. I am sorry if I was not clear to you.

Headroom has not yet, nor ever, provided any credible evidence to explain reason for any audible difference. Nor has anyone else to my knowledge. But 'balanced' circuits are the current _fad_, it seems.

FYI: The only legitimate use of balanced circuits to my knowledge is for external signal connections between components (such as source to pre-amp or pre-amp to amplifier) in order to provide for rejection of external noise and prevent ground loops. Of course, this is generally not a problem in typical consumer systems. It is primarily a feature needed for professional use where a large number of long lines are used - and a substantial amount of external interference will probably be present. Also, please note that the use of a balanced stage in regards to line level balanced transmission and reception in components is not applicable to using a balanced output of an amplifier interfaced with a transducer(_no noise rejection characteristic is present here_).

-Chris


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

mulveling said:


> I hear pre-orders are being taken at the MSRP of $1400. Ouch, but they should be killer and are expected to compete with much more expensive headphones (the few and legendary that they are). The design looks a lot to me like the discontinued (and extremely rare) Sony Qualia 010, ring radiator driver and all. The HD650 can already compete with the best, so who knows what this HD800 can do.


Well, I'm sure the Sennheiser will not compete with the build quality of the Qualia, which was very high(Now, the sound of Qualia was HIGHLY colored; I am only making positive comment towards it's build quality). The pics looked like a cheap silver painted plastic frame for the new Sennheiser. , Sennheiser's highest end headphone, the Orpheus, was not even impressive in terms of build quality. The only notable thing was use of wood for the outer frames - but otherwise - it was made using standard plastic construction and even used the cheapest of cheap quality fake leather for the headband cover. There for I do not expect much in terms of build quality from the HD800.

As for sound, I would expect 'different', not 'better'. Maybe 'better' only from the aspect of having a tonal difference that some may prefer. Some people will probably still prefer the HD650 or even the HD600.

-Chris


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> I hear you, and understand. However, for some reason it did not come across that way to me. Or, he did not say it clearly like you are saying it.


Did you ever verify the model Stax that you listened to? I provided that link to the Omega II that included a picture. Was is the Omega II that you heard? Here is another pic: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/rokuyon/mobiblu_007.jpg

Just curious.....

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> Icallio is correct in regards to my intentions in my replies. I am sorry if I was not clear to you.
> 
> Headroom has not yet, nor ever, provided any credible evidence to explain reason for any audible difference. Nor has anyone else to my knowledge. But 'balanced' circuits are the current _fad_, it seems.
> 
> ...


Well, like I stated before Chris, we will end this discussion here. For, while I must assume there might be some credibilty to your beliefs and findings, it is also hard for me to believe that with all the musicians, engineers, and professionals who have I`m sure, knowledge and expertise, either the same or more than yourself, been in the business and profession for a while and know it well, that they are all wrong, and you are the lonely guy that is right. Har to fathom.

So, if I ever am able to have the same opportunities you have had to test, demo this equipment personally on my own, then, I can make up my own mind. But I can not believe that everyone in the AV industry dealing in this area is way off, and you have all the answers. Not everyone, whether it be Headroom, a trained studio engineer, Stereophile, or anyone else.


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

deacongreg said:


> For, while I must assume there might be some credibilty to your beliefs and findings, it is also hard for me to believe that with all the musicians, engineers, and professionals who have I`m sure, knowledge and expertise, either the same or more than yourself, been in the business and profession for a while and know it well, that they are all wrong, and you are the lonely guy that is right. Har to fathom.


This is an unfair statement. The stance I take, is the same as any one that was truly critical and interested in truth would take. Now, it's true that I may sound 'crazy' to the Stereophile or Audio Asylum type of crowd that have little interest in accurate information. This is simply reality. Go to the actual source of real information, such as the JAES (Journal of Audio Engineering Society); the audio equivalent of a medical journal. Any published data/articles in this journal (_please do not confuse AES preprints with published JAES articles ; a preprint is simply a submitted/presented paper/article_) must pass peer review which as a pre-requisite requires fairly strict scientific methodology to back up claims made in these articles. I am hardly the 'lonely guy' you attempt to illustrate above. You state that some majority of "musicians, engineers, and professionals" would say differently, means nothing, if those people are not being properly critical. In fact, these labels alone mean nothing in regards to their qualification to be truly critical. 'Professional' simply means they get paid. 'Engineer' can mean almost anything. An 'engineer' is no qualification at all of being knowledgeable about perceptual research relevant in his field. Let's take an audio hardware/amp designer/engineer. It simply means he 'designs' the related hardware according to his knowledge of the circuit behavior(s). It certainly does not mean he has to use double blinded bias free listening tests, or even use credible perceptual research to direct his design(s).

Human psychology rains dominant, and being critical to the degree that I am is not naturally convenient to people. Simply examine the nearly universal perception that exotic cables/interconnects have superior/different sound compared to common commodity cables/interconnects. Why is it that most 'experienced' high end audio users will admit to an audible difference, but when put under the condition of a blinded and randomized test, these people can not identify a difference unless the cables in question act as filters due to extreme R, L, C parameter(s), which of course results in easily measurable differences that correlate with known human audibility thresh holds? The only rational explanation, of course, is human psychology.

-Chris


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

WmAx said:


> The stance I take, is the same as any one that was truly critical and interested in truth would take.





WmAx said:


> The only rational explanation, of course, is human psychology.


Quotes like these are where I have to suggest that you reel yourself in a bit, Chris. 

The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve, challenging the honesty of others who may differ. This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.

The second belies your own bias and belief, which while you shroud it in your reliance on science, is in itself keeping you from being truly objective on the matter. This statement ignores the possibility that there may be factors that are not documented or well understood. The fact is that there is less research out there on the issue than sufficient to be convincing that ALL differences that people claim to here are psychologically explained.

This whole debate needs to be moved to its own thread, and *both sides *need to produce some credible evidence before anyone is going to be convinced that either is correct. These debates, as I have said before need to be carefully monitored and done in a way that we do not detract from the original thread, nor go down the road of insult nor disrespect. You, as a member of the staff here, should be more careful about how you approach such issues. 

I came to this thread to find information about headphones and it has become a debate over a matter that has nothing to do with anyone's choice in headphones. We do not, in most cases, get to choose between balanced and unbalanced connections for a given headphone system. If a vendor chooses one or the other that is part of their system that we have to evaluate, but it is pointless to pull that aspect out as a point of debate between systems. It is definitely a subject that could be of interest to discuss in another thread dedicated to it, but here it is a distraction, and now it has gone to far.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

WmAx said:


> This is an unfair statement. The stance I take, is the same as any one that was truly critical and interested in truth would take. Now, it's true that I may sound 'crazy' to the Stereophile or Audio Asylum type of crowd that have little interest in accurate information. This is simply reality. Go to the actual source of real information, such as the JAES (Journal of Audio Engineering Society); the audio equivalent of a medical journal. Any published data/articles in this journal (_please do not confuse AES preprints with published JAES articles ; a preprint is simply a submitted/presented paper/article_) must pass peer review which as a pre-requisite requires fairly strict scientific methodology to back up claims made in these articles. I am hardly the 'lonely guy' you attempt to illustrate above. You state that some majority of "musicians, engineers, and professionals" would say differently, means nothing, if those people are not being properly critical. In fact, these labels alone mean nothing in regards to their qualification to be truly critical. 'Professional' simply means they get paid. 'Engineer' can mean almost anything. An 'engineer' is no qualification at all of being knowledgeable about perceptual research relevant in his field. Let's take an audio hardware/amp designer/engineer. It simply means he 'designs' the related hardware according to his knowledge of the circuit behavior(s). It certainly does not mean he has to use double blinded bias free listening tests, or even use credible perceptual research to direct his design(s).
> 
> Human psychology rains dominant, and being critical to the degree that I am is not naturally convenient to people. Simply examine the nearly universal perception that exotic cables/interconnects have superior/different sound compared to common commodity cables/interconnects. Why is it that most 'experienced' high end audio users will admit to an audible difference, but when put under the condition of a blinded and randomized test, these people can not identify a difference unless the cables in question act as filters due to extreme R, L, C parameter(s), which of course results in easily measurable differences that correlate with known human audibility thresh holds? The only rational explanation, of course, is human psychology.
> 
> -Chris




I`m done, as I told you. Your view is all you hear and understand. I did not sign up to this forum for this. And while science is good, there are many examples when we are talking about music and equipment, that science can not verify fully. We are talking about enjoying music, and the equipment that reproduces it, thats all.

So Chris, I`m done converse with you. Its no longer fun anymore.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> Quotes like these are where I have to suggest that you reel yourself in a bit, Chris.
> 
> The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve, challenging the honesty of others who may differ. This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.
> 
> ...


Yes, I agree with you. I don`t know how we got there. I was talking about how great the headphone listening experience is, and can be. So, lets talk about that.

Example, by March Headroom will be selling the new Sennheiser HD800 headphones. Is anyone out there excited about this new entry?


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve,


While it may seem condescending, this is not intended. But, it seems it's difficult to initialize the much needed reality check without such seemingly being implied.


> challenging the honesty of others who may differ.


I never challenged honesty. That really is the point. People 'honestly' believe in many of these cases, what in all realistic probability is not audible difference, but instead psychological difference.



> This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.


I really have no idea what it is you intend me to apologize about. If it's about taking the thread somewhat off topic, then I do apologize for that, but I feel compelled to reply to and address obvious improbabilities that are discussed as if they were in fact highly probable.



> The second belies your own bias and belief, which while you shroud it in your reliance on science, is in itself keeping you from being truly objective on the matter. This statement ignores the possibility that there may be factors that are not documented or well understood. The fact is that there is less research out there on the issue than sufficient to be convincing that ALL differences that people claim to here are psychologically explained.


Exactly what are you referring to? All I have done is refer to the absolute lack of any credible data that would suggest a 'balanced' drive stage has ANY audible inherent difference, excepting the narrow exclusions I stated earlier in reference to balanced transmission AND receiving blocks that can reject noise in situations where noise can be an issue(_and which is not applicable to audio amplifier output stages driving a transducer_). I honestly have no idea of what things you speak of that are not documented or well understood, because especially in the area of hardware(amplifiers, DACs, CD players, etc.), I am not aware of any aspect that is not well understood in terms of audible thresholds. In fact, one can reliably predict the outcome of bias controlled DBT tests based on a set of measured behaviors, as is shown in blind test after blind test; the only differences appearing when well known measurable differences are present.



> This whole debate needs to be moved to its own thread, and *both sides *need to produce some credible evidence before anyone is going to be convinced that either is correct.


It merits no thread of it's own, IMO, but if you think this is too off topic, then perhaps you should move all of the relevant posts to a new thread; I can not do this move as I am no longer a moderator here.

BTW, there is no way for me to provide 'credible evidence' of what would amount to a negative proof.

I responded to this issue as a FYI only in regards to the lack of any useful evidence of balanced headphone amplifier outputs having any inherent audible difference. Just as I would point out such unsupported audiophile beliefs in any other area as I would if claims of special 'cable sound' was claimed, or any other outlandish claim, I do so here when it is mentioned. For me to ignore and not point out the likely reality of the situation(s), is for me to do the majority a dis-service: that's the way I see it.

-Chris


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> Quotes like these are where I have to suggest that you reel yourself in a bit, Chris.
> 
> The first is a condescending dig at the credibility of anyone who does not share your perspectve, challenging the honesty of others who may differ. This is not the way we conduct debate here at the Shack and you need to apologize to all for that comment. You made your opinion clear without this.
> 
> ...


I guess you guys work together and have to respond to each other. But, just reading what he said to you, its like he is in his own world. I will not come back to this thread. Amazing, people need to be open to different views and opinions. Once you start accusing folks about their credibity, and not allowing your own views to be open to question, you have problems.
Later guys.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

deacongreg said:


> I guess you guys work together and have to respond to each other. But, just reading what he said to you, its like he is in his own world. I will not come back to this thread. Amazing, people need to be open to different views and opinions. Once you start accusing folks about their credibity, and not allowing your own views to be open to question, you have problems.
> Later guys.


That is exactly my point. We should not be creating an atmosphere where people don't want to come back. Please feel free to post with good will and understanding within the posting guidelines of the forum. No one should feel that their views are not welcome as long as they treat others with respect.


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## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

deacongreg said:


> Yes, I agree with you. I don`t know how we got there. I was talking about how great the headphone listening experience is, and can be. So, lets talk about that.
> 
> Example, by March Headroom will be selling the new Sennheiser HD800 headphones. Is anyone out there excited about this new entry?


I'm highly interested in the new HD800 because I've been a huge fan of Senn's HD600/HD650. I've had practically everything in the headphone world - the Sony MDR-R10 and Qualia 010, Grado HP-2/RS1/RS2, AKG K1000, Audio Technica L3000/W5000/W2002/W11jpn/W10vtg, Ultrasone Edition 9, yes even the revered Orpheus system (for a month) - I would put the vastly less expensive HD600/650 up at or near any of those. In fact for overall musical enjoyment the HD650 can beat the hell out of most of those (I'm looking at you, Ultrasone, Grado, AKG, any AT other than the L3000)...
If it don't move me with hard rock & metal, then we're gonna have problems. I couldn't care less how great this stuff sounds with Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Patricia Barber, etc.

I prefer the hd650 over the 600, but then the 600 does make its case with a crisper, airier, slightly brighter sound. The 650 has better bass and is a bit smoother - other than that they're very similar.

The problem I have with the 800 is that I'm in the midst of *downsizing*, selling some expensive headphone amps (I picked up a SS Gilmore amp for $200 that is killer; that's where I'm headed, away from tubes), and spending another $1400 is the opposite of where I want to be headed in this hobby. I've been thinking of picking up the 600 again to go with my 650, but that's a far cry from 1400. I think I'll just wait and hope for prices to fall, at least in the used market.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

mulveling said:


> I'm highly interested in the new HD800 because I've been a huge fan of Senn's HD600/HD650. I've had practically everything in the headphone world - the Sony MDR-R10 and Qualia 010, Grado HP-2/RS1/RS2, AKG K1000, Audio Technica L3000/W5000/W2002/W11jpn/W10vtg, Ultrasone Edition 9, yes even the revered Orpheus system (for a month) - I would put the vastly less expensive HD600/650 up at or near any of those. In fact for overall musical enjoyment the HD650 can beat the hell out of most of those (I'm looking at you, Ultrasone, Grado, AKG, any AT other than the L3000)...
> If it don't move me with hard rock & metal, then we're gonna have problems. I couldn't care less how great this stuff sounds with Diana Krall, Norah Jones, Patricia Barber, etc.
> 
> I prefer the hd650 over the 600, but then the 600 does make its case with a crisper, airier, slightly brighter sound. The 650 has better bass and is a bit smoother - other than that they're very similar.
> ...




Wow, a headphone lover indeed. I first heard those wonderful AKG 1000s years ago, at what was called then, the Stereo Hi-Fi show at the Statler Hilton hotel here in New York. I know at present, their almost impossible to get. What I need is a place to demo these phones. It seems the HD600`s are still a great phone and value. Yet, I would like to compare them to the new running favorite, the AKG 701s.
Likewise, going completely in the other direction, STAX. 
For years I have read rave reviews for these electrostatic headphones. However, they are insanely expensive. Have you ever owned any, and if so, what do you think? But, check this, they have come out with two headphones that price themselves right at the AKG`s and Sennheiser`s. The Lambda Basic is what I`m iinterested in, because the original Omega`s and Lambdas cost near 1500.00 - 2000.00.Check this out:

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/eq...tax_sr-001_mk_2_headphones_reviewed002233.php


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## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

deacongreg said:


> Wow, a headphone lover indeed. I first heard those wonderful AKG 1000s years ago, at what was called then, the Stereo Hi-Fi show at the Statler Hilton hotel here in New York. I know at present, their almost impossible to get. What I need is a place to demo these phones. It seems the HD600`s are still a great phone and value. Yet, I would like to compare them to the new running favorite, the AKG 701s.
> Likewise, going completely in the other direction, STAX.
> For years I have read rave reviews for these electrostatic headphones. However, they are insanely expensive. Have you ever owned any, and if so, what do you think? But, check this, they have come out with two headphones that price themselves right at the AKG`s and Sennheiser`s. The Lambda Basic is what I`m iinterested in, because the original Omega`s and Lambdas cost near 1500.00 - 2000.00.Check this out:
> 
> http://www.hometheaterreview.com/eq...tax_sr-001_mk_2_headphones_reviewed002233.php


Never owned an electrostat - closest was the Orpheus he90/hev90 system I had on loan for a few weeks. My same friend that owns the Orphues also has a Lambda Pro, and we've also heard the Stax Omega II on a few occasions. The electrostat sound - I understand why others go crazy for it, but it has yet to seduce me. They've got great air to their presentation, it's very a open, articulate and "light" sound. Completely smooth and grain-free, which can be a real problem on the lesser dynamics. Gives the sound an "ethereal" quality. On the other hand, it's my opinion that they lack the weighty bass slam and drive of a good dynamic headphone. I like a certain meatiness to my sonic presentation, and an ability to breathe dynamic life into all genres, especially rock/pop/metal. The electrostats just don't pass the hard rock/metal test for me, yet.

You know, the one electrostat that impressed me for sheer price/performance ratio was the Lambda Pro. It embodies all the attributes of electrostats I've described above, and (on the hev90 amp) the ONLY deficiency in comparison to the ridiculously expensive he90 Orpheus headphones was a very SLIGHT honkiness in its handling of dynamic peaks. It's just a very small difference in refinement, for largely the same overall sound signature, with a HUGE spread in cost (I think he got the Lambdas used for $200 or less, plus they can be driven by regular speaker amps via a Stax transformer/"energizer"). 

I also prefer the "meatier" sounding dynamic headphones like the HD650 and L3000 (on GOOD amps), over stuff like the Sony R10 and AKG K701. The K701 was nice and technically as competent as the HD650, but sounded a bit sterile/analytical over the spectrum, lacked the bass impact, and was brighter - just not my style. The R10 has the MOST GORGEOUS highs & mids with just the perfect touch of warmth, but lacks the bass. The K1000 never bowled me over but that's likely because my speaker amp at the time (Outlaw M200 pair) was not up to the task. It did sound better when I _briefly_ heard it with an RKV Mk II hybrid amp. I also like the HD600, just slightly less than the HD650 - its a LOT like the 650 but just a _touch_ brighter, less meaty, and perhaps airier as well. I like the Sony Qualia, but that headphone is just so far out there unlike any other headphone I've heard; it's hard to describe. Interestingly, it looks like Sennheiser copied/mirrored a lot of the design of the Qualia in their new HD800 - the ring radiator driver, the semi-open design, the weird pseudo-horn loading of the drivers, the angled mounting...


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## 1artist (Jul 16, 2008)

Studio monitor headphones that I also use for playing live with a Roland TD-20 drums or GT-10 guitar effects - the Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs are extremely clear, balanced and non-fatiquing. Great reviews - pro and consumers alike.

For cordless - Sennheiser HDR 130's. Very acceptable audio for music and HT. Has setting for surround HT. Great battery life. Great user reviews.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

mulveling said:


> Never owned an electrostat - closest was the Orpheus he90/hev90 system I had on loan for a few weeks. My same friend that owns the Orphues also has a Lambda Pro, and we've also heard the Stax Omega II on a few occasions. The electrostat sound - I understand why others go crazy for it, but it has yet to seduce me. They've got great air to their presentation, it's very a open, articulate and "light" sound. Completely smooth and grain-free, which can be a real problem on the lesser dynamics. Gives the sound an "ethereal" quality. On the other hand, it's my opinion that they lack the weighty bass slam and drive of a good dynamic headphone. I like a certain meatiness to my sonic presentation, and an ability to breathe dynamic life into all genres, especially rock/pop/metal. The electrostats just don't pass the hard rock/metal test for me, yet.
> 
> You know, the one electrostat that impressed me for sheer price/performance ratio was the Lambda Pro. It embodies all the attributes of electrostats I've described above, and (on the hev90 amp) the ONLY deficiency in comparison to the ridiculously expensive he90 Orpheus headphones was a very SLIGHT honkiness in its handling of dynamic peaks. It's just a very small difference in refinement, for largely the same overall sound signature, with a HUGE spread in cost (I think he got the Lambdas used for $200 or less, plus they can be driven by regular speaker amps via a Stax transformer/"energizer").
> 
> I also prefer the "meatier" sounding dynamic headphones like the HD650 and L3000 (on GOOD amps), over stuff like the Sony R10 and AKG K701. The K701 was nice and technically as competent as the HD650, but sounded a bit sterile/analytical over the spectrum, lacked the bass impact, and was brighter - just not my style. The R10 has the MOST GORGEOUS highs & mids with just the perfect touch of warmth, but lacks the bass. The K1000 never bowled me over but that's likely because my speaker amp at the time (Outlaw M200 pair) was not up to the task. It did sound better when I _briefly_ heard it with an RKV Mk II hybrid amp. I also like the HD600, just slightly less than the HD650 - its a LOT like the 650 but just a _touch_ brighter, less meaty, and perhaps airier as well. I like the Sony Qualia, but that headphone is just so far out there unlike any other headphone I've heard; it's hard to describe. Interestingly, it looks like Sennheiser copied/mirrored a lot of the design of the Qualia in their new HD800 - the ring radiator driver, the semi-open design, the weird pseudo-horn loading of the drivers, the angled mounting...


You said a lot here. First, It still seems like, especially now that they are discounted some what, that the HD600`s are a good buy right now, and you don`t lose or suffer much in sound quality. Not familar at all with these Sony`s R10`s your talking about. Are they still available, or discontnued now, and what price range are they in? Sounds like the STAXS are good, but lack bass. Maybe I should just forget them, for 2000.00 is a bit high for me right not.
I`m thinking about a headphone amp, and either 701`s in white, Sennheiser HD600/650`s, and if i can hear them - this new Stax Lambda Nova Basic for 399.99. How did you get to hear the Qualia? Tried to get to SONY here in Manhattan, but was too late for an audition, they were already sent back.

i`ve heard great things about the Orpheus, its too bad they dropped it.


----------



## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Headphones - Whats your Pick? You Asked!!!*



slwiser said:


> I am using two pair of headphones today in my systems. The Ultrasone Edition 9 is the better of the two. The Audio-Technica AT-ESW9 is my portable. The ESW9 has displaced my AT-ANC7 in my use. One would say that I am a hard-core headphone user. I have dedicated amps and sources just for them.
> 
> Other headphones that have come and gone but which I have enjoyed are:
> 
> ...


Those Audio Technica`s are very nice. With the solid wood look,sharp.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

daniel said:


> I used to have stax headphone. I wouldn't go for anything less.


I may look into one now, their new Lambda Nova Basic System. Its only 399.99. Priced right at the top of the line AKG`s and Sennheiser. I have always wanted a pair of Stax`s for years. But 1500.00 - 2000.00 is still a lot of money. Its good to see someone there was thinking about the rest of us. Check these out, and letme know what you think. BTW, what Staxs do you own? The Lambdas or Omegas?

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/eq...micropro_in-ear_headphones_reviewed002074.php


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

drf said:


> Don't believe everything you read, and question what you do believe.
> E.G Sennheiser get awesome reviews for their wireless headphones, yet I measured a pair just last week and they could not reproduce above 7Khz. A simple FR test, I bet if I grabed a cheap set (A$50) of sony wired headphones they would reproduce at least to 18Khz.
> 
> A lot of the reviews on the net are written by people who know what they like but don't like what is not fasionable.
> ...


I hear you. The real issue is, that for the most part, you have to buy headpones w/o listening to them!! I`m sure none of us here would buy a pair of speakers without listening to them first. With your source material. So your left to the reviewer. Thats why I like Headroom - Right Between your Ears. They have built an excellent reputation of guys who specialize and love headphones. They Have a wide selection of headphone amps, and headphones.
But you make a very good point.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

JCD said:


> I've actually listed to these at a local headphone meet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


aWESOME, i`VE ALWAYS WANTED TO LISTEN TO THE oRPHEUS.They must be excellent, justification, well like other things in the high end, some things we can buy, others are to dream, pray, and maybe even lust after. But, I would feel better, if I could at least hear or be able to play with the mega buck equipment, at least my curiousty about its performance would be satisfied.

BTW, Cary Audio Design, who I believe makes some of the most beautiful looking components, has just come out with a new tube headphone amplifier for us headphone lovers, here it is:

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/av...ter_headphone_integrated_amp001999.php#_login


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

While we are talking about headphones here, I`m sure you realize that Denon has been getting major press now on their line of AH-D headphones? In particular, the AH-D 7000?

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/av...ultra_reference_ah-d7000_headphones002586.php


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

JCD, slwiser, and mulveling,
The Grace 902 headphone amp seems to be one of the top amps available for high end headphone listening. Have any of you had the opportunity to audition this Grace?

http://www.hometheaterreview.com/eq...c/grace_m902_headphone_amp_reviewed002095.php


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## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

deacongreg said:


> You said a lot here. First, It still seems like, especially now that they are discounted some what, that the HD600`s are a good buy right now, and you don`t lose or suffer much in sound quality. Not familar at all with these Sony`s R10`s your talking about. Are they still available, or discontnued now, and what price range are they in? Sounds like the STAXS are good, but lack bass. Maybe I should just forget them, for 2000.00 is a bit high for me right not.
> I`m thinking about a headphone amp, and either 701`s in white, Sennheiser HD600/650`s, and if i can hear them - this new Stax Lambda Nova Basic for 399.99. How did you get to hear the Qualia? Tried to get to SONY here in Manhattan, but was too late for an audition, they were already sent back.
> 
> i`ve heard great things about the Orpheus, its too bad they dropped it.


The HD600 is a indeed great buy, but for some (me included) the 650 will be well worth the extra cost (and it's not really that much on the used market) for the improved bass response. Those who love more bass-light sound signatures like those of the Staxes or AKG 701 will probably prefer the HD600, though. The bass response and a slightly smoother treble (both in favor of the 650 IMO) is the main difference between the HD600/HD650.

The Staxes have a different sound and lack that "notch" in the FR graph treble region because they are not diffuse field equalized like the Sennheisers and other dynamic headphones (the claim is that this is done to avoid a resonance spike at around that frequency).

The Sony MDR-R10 had an MSRP of $4K and had around 2000 units produced over a run of about 15 years. Unmistakable for its HUGE, gorgeously crafted wooden cups with the insides precisely hollowed out to replicate the feeling of listening in a concert hall (really worked to some degree). I used to own a pair. The best midrange of any headphones ever, period IMO. The best headphones for classical/opera, ever. Where it lacked was in bass slam, severity depending on which "version" you happened to get. The later serial #s tend to offer the best bass (I've heard about 4 different pairs). Still, if you want to rock out - I prefer a number of choices, like the L3000, Qualia, HD650, HP1000.

The only SPEAKERS I've heard match/exceed the beauty of those R10 mids are the Tannoy Prestige Kensington SE, which I am currently hoping/attempting to acquire  Of course being speakers, they also do all those speaker things that headphones can't replicate.










I've owned the Qualia for over 2 years now, however I'm currently in the process of working out their sale. Below are some of the pics I took for my sale ad. It's engineering that oozes quality and beauty - truly amazing what Sony can (could) do when it dedicates its mind power and budget.














































After having heard it all headphone-wise (well, close enough), I've decided that the relatively modest setup of HD650 with a Headamp Gilmore Reference (single-ended version) out of my SOTA Star III turntable (Benz Glider L2 cart) best hits my performance requirements over all aspects of sound quality without spending gobs of money for what I found to be mostly negligible enhancements in particular areas or (most commonly) a trade-off of one aspect of SQ to the detriment of another (in other words a side-grade). I'm currently going through the process of selling stuff to raise funds for the speakers I really want.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

*Re: Headphones - Whats your Pick? You Asked!!!*



deacongreg said:


> Those Audio Technica`s are very nice. With the solid wood look,sharp.


Since that post my setups have evolved a bit. I still have the Ultrasone Edition 9 feed by a Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp which is getting it's feed from a Lavry DA10 DAC feed from my desktop computer using a M-Audio USB Audiophile USB converter. 

But I now have a second home setup at my easy chair which involves a electrostatic system which includes a Stax SR-007MkII headphone and a Headamp KGSS amplifer. This amp is feed by another Lavry DA10 which gets it's feed from my Squeezebox.

For portable and transportable setups I now am using a TTVJ Portable Hybrid Millet amp with the iMod (modified iPod). I also have replaced that AT ESW9 with the AT-ESW10JPN. It is even better sounding than the ESW9. I also have a small Nuforce Icon Mobile Dac/Amp to work with a Sansa Fuse. This one is highly portable.

I have on order the new Ultrasone Edition 8 (UE8) and a Headamp Pico Dac(USB)/Amp to enhance my portable setups. The Pico will be feed by me Dell Mini9 with outboard USB hard drive as a music server for a very nice transportable setup. I plan on using the UE8 with this.

Here is a picture of the ESW10 with the iMod and TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid:










The nice AT case carries all this.

Here is another nice portable setup using the Sansa Fuse, Nuforce Icon Mobile and Sleek SA6 wireless with a range of about 50 ft. This wireless is CD quality.










Here is my electrostatic setup, the Stax SR-404 on the left and the Stax SRM-T1S down below have been sold. The big llack box that the headphones are setting on is the Headamp KGSS. It has big blackgate caps coming out the back and those look like stacks. You just can catch a glimpse of one of those between the two headphones with a slightly blueish color on the top.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

mulveling said:


> The HD600 is a indeed great buy, but for some (me included) the 650 will be well worth the extra cost (and it's not really that much on the used market) for the improved bass response. Those who love more bass-light sound signatures like those of the Staxes or AKG 701 will probably prefer the HD600, though. The bass response and a slightly smoother treble (both in favor of the 650 IMO) is the main difference between the HD600/HD650.
> 
> The Staxes have a different sound and lack that "notch" in the FR graph treble region because they are not diffuse field equalized like the Sennheisers and other dynamic headphones (the claim is that this is done to avoid a resonance spike at around that frequency).
> 
> ...


First, thanks for the pictures, the Sony MDR10`sare beautiful. May I ask what your selling them for? Probably to rich for me, but..............Also, the Qualia`s, for you can`t get them anymore. I spoke to Sony in Manhattan. 

Better bass on the HD 650`s, hmmmm. I decided to go for the HD600`s because the difference I kept reading about was yes, bass, but an overall darker sounding headphone in the 650. And I figured, that is something I did not want. But now your saying the difference is major..But I`m thinking, even with the Sony MDR10`s and Qualia`s, you mentioned lack of bass also. At those prices, its hard for me to believe they are lacking to that degree. 

Then again, you have owned them all, so you should know. I`m just wondering maybe if you just like a lot of bass with your music, or if your talking about that these phones are missing just the lowest octaves, frequencies of the low end?

The Qualia`s are an interesting looking design as well. And yes, when Sony does put its mind to do something, they are one of the best out there.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

*Re: Headphones - Whats your Pick? You Asked!!!*



slwiser said:


> Since that post my setups have evolved a bit. I still have the Ultrasone Edition 9 feed by a Yamamoto HA-02 headphone amp which is getting it's feed from a Lavry DA10 DAC feed from my desktop computer using a M-Audio USB Audiophile USB converter.
> 
> But I now have a second home setup at my easy chair which involves a electrostatic system which includes a Stax SR-007MkII headphone and a Headamp KGSS amplifer. This amp is feed by another Lavry DA10 which gets it's feed from my Squeezebox.
> 
> ...


Well, you have been very busy. Congrats on all of this. I finally found the only dealer in New York that carries Stax, American Audiophile in Lynbrook Long Island. About an hours drive for me. So, I gonna call and make sure I can demo these electrostatics, and hear what everyone has been raving about for years. They also carry Grado, so I can compare them with the RS1`s and GS1000`s. 
Unfortunately, no Sennheiser or AKG. I just got hip to TTVJ a week ago. I`m largely a Headroom fan. I just found out about the people at Head-fi and TTVJ. 

All these years, even when I sold their mics and cartridges, I had no idea Audio Technica made and sold headphones. You learn something new everyday. How is that TTVJ amp?

Its clear, I need to make a decision. But, unlike speakers, that none of us would purchase w/o listening to them first, in most cases, headphones you have too!! I`m having trouble getting over that one.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

mulveling,

BTW, I was on Ultrasones website reading about their S - Logic Natural Surround Sound technology. I saw no mention of the Ultrasone 9 headphones, are they now discontinued?


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

Yes, the Edition 9 is discontinued.

They are now showing an Edition 8 but they say it is not an exact replacement. The Edition 8 is more focused on being portable application.

Greg

That TTVJ Portable Millet Hybrid has a real full and powerful sound using my UE9s. I am listening as I type right now with it as my amp. I would put this up against a lot of home desktop amps in the same price range and it is very small, using tiny micro-tubes.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

slwiser said:


> Yes, the Edition 9 is discontinued.
> 
> They are now showing an Edition 8 but they say it is not an exact replacement. The Edition 8 is more focused on being portable application.


I did check out the Edition 8`s online. They look really well put together with all this new material there using now.
Tannoy, that is a speaker company I remember from back in the days of Klipshhorn and Bozak. Have not read or seen a review in a while for their speakers. Good to know there still around.


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## Instal (Apr 8, 2007)

I am sure neither of mine are in the same league as yours but here goes. I have a pair of wireless Sennheiser HDR 65's that I am very happy with, they are light and comfortable. The only complaint would be a lack of bass. To my knowledge (limited) lack of bass is a issue with all headphones. For gaming I have a pair of Tritton AX 360's. These are true surround sound headphones which take gaming to a whole new level. I can hear things in the audio with the headphones that simply don't exist without them. For example I can actually hear grass being crunched under a footstep that does not appear even with my HK AVR 535 and Klipsch RB-81 audio set up (admittedly not the best but capable) The only complaint is that the controls are much too sensetive and there is no ability to control overall volume. You have to control front, rear etc seperately.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

Instal said:


> I am sure neither of mine are in the same league as yours but here goes. I have a pair of wireless Sennheiser HDR 65's that I am very happy with, they are light and comfortable. The only complaint would be a lack of bass. To my knowledge (limited) lack of bass is a issue with all headphones. For gaming I have a pair of Tritton AX 360's. These are true surround sound headphones which take gaming to a whole new level. I can hear things in the audio with the headphones that simply don't exist without them. For example I can actually hear grass being crunched under a footstep that does not appear even with my HK AVR 535 and Klipsch RB-81 audio set up (admittedly not the best but capable) The only complaint is that the controls are much too sensetive and there is no ability to control overall volume. You have to control front, rear etc seperately.


Your are right that bass is an issue with most headphones..but if you ever get the chance do yourself a favor and test out the Ultrasone Edition 9. I understand the Edition 8 will in a portable do almost as well. The UE9 can make me forget that subwoofer somehow. It is still not the same thing but the nearest I know of in the headphone world.


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

Each and everyone of the headphones mentioned on here seem to be nice and *wish* I could fork that kind of money, but I am going to toss my question in the air and see what comes up ;D


~~ Ok,

Right now I own some Sennheiser HD457 and i got them about two-years ago from Circuit City. Until recently, I finally started to use them since my *movie* watching has been more late @ night and I could not really enjoy my HT b/c the kids and wife are sleeping. So I been substitute my HT for headphones. 

Now I am not a hifi can fan and not sure what is nice and not, but using the ones I have they seem to have much bass and very quite and detail is really good. My only gripe is that after about an hour into my ears the pads around the ears start to fell uncomfortable and end up messing with the headphones searching for a better comfortable setting, but these are not that flexible, but I am sure that is why these are on the lower end of Sennheiser. 

So I been browsing and came across the AKG K 77 which is still in my budget and look to be comfortable, but what is it that I need to look for. For gosh sakes, I know I love sound and I don't care to make the can's scream @ my ears and be def @ 35, so........ please let me know if you think these would be a better fit then my HD457. 

Thanks


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## Dub (Mar 22, 2009)

He

my fovorite headphones are the AKG K1000, the AKG K340 and the Sennheiser HD650. I have some others I also like as Ergo, DT880 etc.


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## Dub (Mar 22, 2009)

I Use my AKG K1000 on my main amp, with the AKG switchbox and also with Jan Meier's EarTube headamp


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## Dub (Mar 22, 2009)

Others headphones are connected to te same EarTube headamp


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## Dub (Mar 22, 2009)

and also on my yamaha go44 firewire Interface


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## Dub (Mar 22, 2009)

and sometimes on my classic 160go iPod


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## Dub (Mar 22, 2009)

Here are some of my favorites:


The EarTube headamp:


And some headphones:

AKG K1000:


AKG K340:


Ergo2:


HD650:


DT880:


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

DENON AH-D1001K Good day mulveling and slwiser,

Have not heard from either one of you guys in some time. I assist in doing sound for my church. We have a sound board, a Tascam cd recorder, and a Sony cd changer. I purchased a pair of Denon AH-D1001Ks from Headroom. I was going to with the AKG 81DJs, but after researching the Denons, and all the favorable press right now surrounding their entire headphone lineup, I gave them a shot. What do you guys think?


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

Malice said:


> *Pre-amble*
> 
> So why did I want to review these headphones (see below)? Well, unlike the aficionados in here, I have no history of ever using headphones to listen to my music, even on an irregular basis. Perhaps I have been fortunate in that all the houses I have lived in (parents) or owned, have been detached so “loud” music per se has not been an issue to be overcome with the use of headphones. However, I accept that there is a school of thought which supports the view that irrespective of any “loud” issues, a good set of ‘phones can enhance the listening pleasure over and above that which one may experience with a good set of speakers. So with that in mind I wanted to go back to school to see if there was anything to this headphone malarkey! In some respects I hope that by not having any preconceptions about any brand, model or perceived performance that I could offer an honest opinion based on my experiences with them.
> 
> ...


Very nice. I like what you did here. And you quoted the bottom line, after all reviews have been read, all questions have been answered, you must go audition yourself. I have yet had the opportunity to hear the HD650`s. From what I`ve read, I would think the prior king of the hill, the HD600``s, would be a better choice. Because, most reviews state that the HD650`s, have a darker sound, than the HD650`s. 
And I know, I would not want that.

I first heard the RS1`s years ago when working at Harvey Sound in Manhattan, here in New York on 45th street. Joe Grado himself (Did not know who he was at the time) walked in with the RS1`s, a portable cd player, a cd, thats it!! What I heard changed my life. I could not believe the clarity, detail, bottom end, overall presentation that I heard. All of this without a headphone amp. So, though I know one that has had your opinion that the Grado RS1`s are better than the Sennheiser HD650`s, I`m not surprised at all, either. I wonder how the new PS1000`s at $1649.95 sound??


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

I have yet to get my pre-ordered Ultrasone Edition 8s. I am looking forward to them to come in over the next two weeks. There have been a great pictures lately, much better than the one's that I put up. Thanks for the show and tell.

I will let you guys know what I think of the 8s when they come in.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

slwiser said:


> I have yet to get my pre-ordered Ultrasone Edition 8s. I am looking forward to them to come in over the next two weeks. There have been a great pictures lately, much better than the one's that I put up. Thanks for the show and tell.
> 
> I will let you guys know what I think of the 8s when they come in.





Sounds good, looking forward to it.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

Well, I am not going to get the new Ultrasone Edition 8. Northern Light and Sound which has been a long time Ultrasone approved reseller had their partnership pulled by Ultrasone. This was apparently done because NL&S sold their product to low. NL&S has generously offered to substitute the Edition 9 as a replacement to me since the E9 is on hand and available. I have agreed to take the E9 as a substitute which will make it my second E9.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

slwiser said:


> Well, I am not going to get the new Ultrasone Edition 8. Northern Light and Sound which has been a long time Ultrasone approved reseller had their partnership pulled by Ultrasone. This was apparently done because NL&S sold their product to low. NL&S has generously offered to substitute the Edition 9 as a replacement to me since the E9 is on hand and available. I have agreed to take the E9 as a substitute which will make it my second E9.




Well, your very blessed to get that deal. Its good to see a dealer stand behind their customer. Good for you.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

avaserfi said:


> Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the tip, Jim. I've been on the look out for some good-sounding, but economical 'phones. I've been a Sennheiser fan for years, but I've grown weary of their cheesy replacable cables. They don't last long at all, and after 2-3 replacements you've spent the price of the headphones once again.
> ...


Well, I finally got around to snagging a pair of MDR V6’s on eBay for $50 shipped, and I must say I'm impressed. They’re as good as everyone says. 

Compared to the Sennheiser HD 25 SP’s they’re replacing, the MDRs have what I’d characterize as flatter response – brighter on the top end, with less bass. Not overly so, however, nothing a simple control adjustment can’t compensate for, if needed. 

They’re really comfortable, too, and I like the coiled cable attached to only one of the earpieces. The Sennheiser cable is a mess, way too long and always getting tangled up in the “y” that comes off both ear pieces. 

In searching for a pair to bid on, I saw one seller who said AKG makes the MDRs for Sony. Anyone ever hear that?

I’ll evaluate them for a few weeks and if I decide to keep them (and I probably will), I’ll get some replacement velour earcushions for the Beyerdynamic DT-250. Most people seem to think they’re a considerable improvement in both comfort and longevity over the stock Sony earcushions. :T

Regards,
Wayne


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

Hey, there's a lot of arugeing in pages 3 and 4...and was wanting to get a pair of headphones, but more of rather a condensed list of them posted.

My budget is under 100...preferably around 50$.

I am looking for headphones with a good punch in bass, but has a more neutral sound. I got a pair of sonys, and phillips studio monitors; but they were trash. No bass, no nothing. They were very muddled sounding, and couldn't even play very loud without distortion. I guess having the 876 AVR with it Audyessed makes me kinda spoiled.

But like I said, decent flatish...FR, decent bass response, and can handle being played loud.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

the_rookie said:


> Hey, there's a lot of arugeing in pages 3 and 4...and was wanting to get a pair of headphones, but more of rather a condensed list of them posted.
> 
> My budget is under 100...preferably around 50$.
> 
> ...


Okay, I have two choices for you. Both of which I owned. The Grado SR60s are probably the best bang for the buck headphone around at $69.00. I still have mine, I guess its at least 5- 6 yrs. now. Comfortable with the foam ear cushions, (which you will have to replace!!), overall balance is good, bass response is excellent w/o being muddy. But if you really need to stay at $50.00,, I used to have one of the coolest looking headphones around, that collapse, and go in a little pouch, the KOSS KSP (Koss Sound Partners). You will give up a little sound to the Grados, but for what they can do, pretty nice. But the competiton is a lot stiffer in this price region then ever. But based on my own experience, you can`t go wrong with these. ENJOY!!


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

I was going to say the Grado SR60i's as well. I haven't heard them, but I do know a lot of people love them -- expecially for the the price.

However, other than cost, are there any other characteristics that we should be aware of? Do you want them closed? Or is open better? In ear? over ear? Does size matter?


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

JCD said:


> I was going to say the Grado SR60i's as well. I haven't heard them, but I do know a lot of people love them -- expecially for the the price.
> 
> However, other than cost, are there any other characteristics that we should be aware of? Do you want them closed? Or is open better? In ear? over ear? Does size matter?


Open or closed really was never an issue for me. I think you can decide that personally. Based on your living conditions, noise in and surrounding where you listen to your music and movies. My only thing after having them for a while now, is replacing the foam ear cushions. They used to be 8.00, now its 15.00!! Also, now that the SR60i, (improved) model is out, I would investigate, what the improvement is..

Enjoy!!


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

Whats open and closed?

Furthermore, I think over ear. I dont like ear buds at all. More like studio monitor sized. Good bass response, fairly equal FR, the ones i have tested were low highs, muffled/loud mids, and weak bass....so pretty much .

I want clean highs, deep lows, and controlled mids.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> Whats open and closed?
> 
> Furthermore, I think over ear. I dont like ear buds at all. More like studio monitor sized. Good bass response, fairly equal FR, the ones i have tested were low highs, muffled/loud mids, and weak bass....so pretty much .
> 
> I want clean highs, deep lows, and controlled mids.


I'm still thinking the Grado's are your best bet. Do you have any music stores around you? They often have headphones you can try.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Max-Volume (Jan 12, 2009)

avaserfi said:


> Until I have finished my speaker build all of my critical listening has been relegated to my two pair of headphones- Sony MDR-7506 and a brand new (to me) pair of Beyerdynamic DT880s 2003 model with a slight acoustic modification. Both pairs are extremely linear with the DT880s having an ultra clean waterfall with near zero resonance although it has a small bump in the trebel response, but I use an EQ to take care of that for listening.
> 
> I was wondering what everyones favorite sets of cans/in ears are. Post pics if you will. I willt ry to get some pics of my pairs up soon.
> 
> I use a Xynex 802 to power the headphones at home as it actually works as a great headphone amp and the DT880s are harder to drive.


I also use the DT880 s(studio), basically for the last 25 years. I t has been repaired (new drivers) at Beyerdynamic in the mean time, but otherwise served me very well. But I prefer speakers to headphones, so I don't emply a dedicated headphones amp, which may produce even better sound.

What I always likes about the DT880s is its neutrality, which is not boring. It is very fast and very near to the original in its reproduction, adding nothing artificially. I compared it to the newer DT990 and some AKGs - but always found the DT880s superior. I was tempted by the Jecklin Float in the past, but the "floating" on my head always felt precarious - I always felt it would fall down, if I move just a tiny bit...

For travelling I use the Koss foldable headphones, which are surprisingly good, but lack bass, if they are not pressed down onto the ears hard.


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## number 5 (Sep 9, 2009)

I ordered a pair of Shure SRH440 headphones from Amazon last night and opted for Saturday delivery. I'll have them tomorrow. I haven't seen anyone else in this thread mention them. 

These new cans are actually for my partner, not for me. I don't care much for headphones; they always make me feel hot and uncomfortable. We also read the reviews of the Sony MDR-7506 and the Grado SR80i. We didn't actually audition any of them. The reviewers seemed to give the Grado the highest marks for fidelity, but we were concerned that too much sound might leak out of them due to the open supra-aural design. The Shure SRH440 is a closed circumaural design. 

I'll report back on our impressions soon.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

I had a set of Bose Quiet Comfort headphones which were very good, I have just purchased a pair of Sennhieser RS130 wireless headphones which work quite well for music...with NO wires, although not audiophile quality :bigsmile:


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I don't like headphones. Music seeming to come from inside my head feels kind of creepy to me. I live in a house and can play music and/or movies whenever I want. I very seldom play anything at headbanging levels so my neighbors have nothing to complain about. That said, in 42 years of being involved in this hobby (obsession) I've had many different headphones. The only ones I could stand were a pair of Stax "Earspeakers". Even those were unsatisfactory to me. I gave them to a buddy who has neighbor volume concerns. He likes them a lot. If I'm ever in circumstances where headphone listening becomes necessary I wouldn't hesitate to buy another pair of Stax "Earspeakers".


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## 1artist (Jul 16, 2008)

Audio-Technica ATH-M40fs are full cans that I use as monitors when playing a set of Roland TD-20's or guitars through a BOSS GT-10 and Line Six amp. For live music, they sparkle in the upper treble range, have clear, discreet mids and well-defined bass. They sound great at moderate volumes during extended sessions. They playback quite loudly without fatigue for transient critical listening. 

I use a Tandberg 3002 A integrated amp with a separate volume control for headphones, also. The above AT's sound very good through the Tandberg using a Sony HDR-F1HD tuner and CD player. 

For mobility, I use wireless Sennheiser HDR-130's. The sound in two-channel is enjoyable and very acceptable. Important for moving about, they're very comfortable and the range is great. Mine are 3 years old and the batteries are recharging and discharging like new. 

The HDR-130's surround mode is very good for some movies. Music on surround becomes fatiguing quickly after a few minutes. A switch on the charger base changes it. 

As suggested earlier, balancing these two headphones with a very close-range subwoofer adds better defined, deeper, fuller and more satisfying tactile musical sensations.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

I personally like my el cheapo Shure SE110(at $100!) in ear phones. They stay in your ears when you run and cancel noise extremely well. Their treble response is a bit muted and bass isn't the deepest or strongest, but they sound accurate otherwise. Headwize used to have a comprehensive set of measurements for the most popular models including these, but they've removed it from their site. In any case they are one of the best in ear models for the money. The Etymotic models perform well as do the better Shures.

Dan


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## nsnotes (Oct 16, 2009)

mulveling said:


> I prefer the hd650 over the 600, but then the 600 does make its case with a crisper, airier, slightly brighter sound. The 650 has better bass and is a bit smoother - other than that they're very similar.


I agree here. For me Sens HD 580 (which are quite similar sonically to 600) have been working very well for a quite while. Good, transparent headphones and very comfortable. I would rather say 580/600 are neutral, whereas 650 are more on darker side. Obviously everything depends of preferences. nsnotes


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## Goldenbear (Oct 20, 2009)

Another vote for the HD580. They are the most comfortable headphones I've tried to date (and I've tried a lot of them). They also sound very good, although you really need a headphone amp to get the best out of them.

I've been told there's very little difference between the 580 and the 600. In my very brief comparison between the HD580 and the HD650, I thought they sounded similar, but "different". Basically, I didn't get the immediate sense of ", this sounds much better".

Grado are also very good, especially for the price. However, they hurt my ears after a few minutes, due to the foam pad design and clamping pressure.


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

I use AKG K 702 headphones re-cabled with Mogami wire (stock cable was acting as a high-pass filter). They're my top affordable preference.

Price no object, I'd pick the JH13 Pro in-ear monitors. Orders of magnitude better than the majority of headphones I've listened to, and the closest I've heard to an accurate full-range headphone.


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## media (Jun 2, 2009)

Bose are by far the Best headphones on the market.
Excellent sound quality, as you would expect from Bose.
You can never go wrong with Bose.

We use Bose headphones for our personal monitor feed for the musicians on the stage.
(pro audio setting/Church) could not ask for a better sound.


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## doctorcilantro (Nov 17, 2008)

I have the AKG 601 & 702....VERY comfortable and I enjoy the sound.

I don't use headphones often, in fact, always prefer 2 channel on my bookshelf speakers, but AKG makes nice stuff.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

These are what I use 9 hours a day at work. Starkey Labs IEMs. Custom fit to my ears, 26-28dB NRR and pretty amazing sound from the two way setup. I wanted to go to the three way which would have added a low bass driver, but they couldn't fit them in the shell.


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## tiggers97 (May 13, 2008)

I use Shure E3C in-ear headphones. Great improvement over the regular headphones that come with almost all MP3 players. They sound even more amazing when hooked up to my receiver for SACD playback.


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## sub_junkie (Apr 14, 2009)

Not to thread jack or anything, but what headphones could be driven by an Ipod with no problem, and give really good, clean, tight bass, with nice highs? I looked through a few pages in this thread, but I just don't have time to go through all six pages right now...

Thanks


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> what headphones could be driven by an Ipod with no problem, and give really good, clean, tight bass, with nice highs?


Sennheiser HD25-SP...

Regards,
Wayne


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Etyomics Research.


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## sub_junkie (Apr 14, 2009)

What kind of Etyomics Research, lsiberian?


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

I used the ER-4p, but if I did it again I'd get the cheaper ER-6i's

www.amazon.com is the place to buy them.


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## sub_junkie (Apr 14, 2009)

Ok, thanks. I'll check them out. :T


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## Ronm1 (Apr 22, 2006)

Not using them as much as I did in the past.
Kids all grown up and no longer live at home, so the need isn't what it used to be.
I can now listen to the rig day or night when I need a fix
Course when the need does arise HD600/Equinox/GSP Solo. The 1065 has no phone jack
The Solo replaced a modded Xcanv2 with matched Nos Mullard EC88's and is a good match with the Senns.


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## hwkn (Dec 31, 2009)

My headphones are Sennheiser HD485's.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2010)

I currently have the Sennheiser HD-555's. They go on sale on Amazon.com in the $85 range. For that price, they probably are the best.

I'd like to upgrade some day, but for now, they are great. Great range, great detail, but to fully grade them, something seems just a touch off. Maybe top end. Not sure. Overall great, but not perfect. For the price, I scored big time.

I'm surprised no one mentioned Fostex. I heard they made some of the best. I guess everyone says that, but Fostex was used in the recording industry a lot.


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## corock (Sep 7, 2009)

When I was in radio I used AKG K240's just like everyone else. I bought a pair for personal use in 1991 and they have been used and abused for the past 19 years. I just had to re-solder a wire to one of the speakers a couple of months ago. Other than that they've been flawless.


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## marantz88 (Feb 4, 2010)

A pair of Sennheiser's HD 580 Precision. Suit me fine.


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## gsmollin (Apr 25, 2006)

I use the Sennheisser PC151 for gaming. It has a good mic too. For serious listening I still like my Koss Pro4/AA. It is probably older than most of you, and I have had to repair the wires, but it still has a lovely sound. It also weighs several pounds and is hot on the ears. I also have a set of Shure SE210 that I use when I'm mowing the lawn, and they are also good on an airplane. They block out sound better than anything else, and have a fine, low distortion sound.


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## Benway (Apr 28, 2006)

Sennheiser 650's. I use the Soundblaster X-Fi Elite Pro external box as headphone amp. Maybe not the best solution for a headphone amp, but it is practical. Very satisfied with the sound.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

I've been using STAX cans since about 85 when I bought my Lambda Signatures after using a variety of the better Sennheisers before then. I went back to Len Wallis a few years ago and spent quite a while comparing the 404 to all the dynamics they had there and the 404 STAX were much better in every regard. I picked up a pair of 404 a bit later. I'm building a direct drive EL34 based tube amp for them currently.

I also heard some Beyer DT990 recently I liked and might grab a set later for the times I can't use the STAX.


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## mobayrasta (May 10, 2010)

Akg 340's (fully modded by Apuresound.com) Grado HF2's , Ultrasone 2500's, Ultrason 780's Kenwood KH K1000's. Through a dBel made Bijou tube amp. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mobayrasta (May 10, 2010)

media said:


> Bose are by far the Best headphones on the market.
> Excellent sound quality, as you would expect from Bose.
> You can never go wrong with Bose.
> 
> ...



You are joking right? I can name 20 headphones under 100 bucks that sound better than the Bose. They don't sound bad per say. Just not even worth close to what they cost.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I would bet that like most Bose owners he never listened to any other product. IME most Bose owners fall into the hype from the adds and blindly buy Bose without investigating any other products. The worst part of this is that they then proclaim to one and all "I've got the best", never having heard anything else. 

For most Bose owners the idea of comparison shopping is never considered. They actually believe the hype generated by the false and misleading Bose TV adds. To add insult to injury they then come on sites like this one and tell knowledgable enthusiasts how good their "" Bose gear is. To top this off they get offended when they are told the truth about their Bose "whatever".


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## mobayrasta (May 10, 2010)

JoeESP9 said:


> I would bet that like most Bose owners he never listened to any other product. IME most Bose owners fall into the hype from the adds and blindly buy Bose without investigating any other products. The worst part of this is that they then proclaim to one and all "I've got the best", never having heard anything else.
> 
> For most Bose owners the idea of comparison shopping is never considered. They actually believe the hype generated by the false and misleading Bose TV adds. To add insult to injury they then come on sites like this one and tell knowledgable enthusiasts how good their "" Bose gear is. To top this off they get offended when they are told the truth about their Bose "whatever".



I SO agree with everything you just said! One of my best friends had Bose everything. It makes me sick the money he has spent vs. what he could have gotten. None of it really sounds bad. None of it sounds great either. He is so proud of his one note bass......I have tried to open his eyes to what could be had, but he is literally blinded by their market hype. His QC headphones bother me a lot less than his 2000 dollar Bose surround sound in his living room. He is so proud of the money he spent on it, I just shake my head and have finally realized that he does not want to know the truth. 

I wish I had his money to throw around, I would have one awesome system. His 500 dollar clock radio could have been a Peachtree Decco. Wow it just makes me so upset to think about it......... His sub box stereo thing, whatever it is called could have been some nice speakers. 

I think I will buy him some 70 dollar Grado's for his birthday ( I am not a huge SR60 fan, but they sound A LOT better than his QC''s) and tell him they cost 500 bucks. I bet he would be impressed then....... :sn:


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## Ronm1 (Apr 22, 2006)

Certainly Bose is a Marketing co more than an Audio co.

Daughter was dating a fella that just got a job a a local Bose store...
He was quite pleased with landing the job...
After he went through his spiel we talked about audio in general and listened to some music and movies on my HT/2ch integrated system. We discussed certain points and I let him take the media we used to evaluate, on store h/w. Within a few weeks he left the B&M as he could no longer go through the motions with the same conviction. Course this doesn't work with everyone as I have relatives who while they enjoy the sound, could never live with its WAF appeal.


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## dusnoetos (Jun 1, 2010)

I just found some near mint, Yamaha Orthodynamic Headphones YH-3's at a garage sale. I know they are older (late 70's?) but they are the best headphones I have ever owned.


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## mobayrasta (May 10, 2010)

You can make them even better with some damping check out the orthodynamic thread over at head-fi.org http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/111193/orthodynamic-roundup you will be amazede what a little felt and reflex dots will do. Will make them world class! Great find, what did you pay?


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## dusnoetos (Jun 1, 2010)

mobayrasta said:


> You can make them even better with some damping check out the orthodynamic thread over at head-fi.org http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/111193/orthodynamic-roundup you will be amazede what a little felt and reflex dots will do. Will make them world class! Great find, what did you pay?


I got them for 50¢ at a garage sale.
See this thread for pictures of them: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hifi-audio-components/29996-did-i-make-good-find.html

But Will defiantly check out the mod thread you linked.


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## mobayrasta (May 10, 2010)

Are you kidding me, DEAL OF THE CENTURY!!!!!!!! You would not believe how good they will sound with just a little dampning with some nice felt. Problem with all orthodynamic headphones is they send sound both ways. So you get sound bouncing off the back of the phones. With just felt you can make them keep up with even todays top of the line headphones, you will be amazed at the difference. The highs will get extra sparkle and your mids will be WORLD CLASS! It will make the bass a little dryer so you have to balance it out and not add too much. Just ask a question in that thread and all of us ortho heads will help you out. Here are some great wiki's on wikiphonia http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki//index.php?title=Isodynamic_(aka_orthodynamic) http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki//index.php?title=Yamaha_Orthodynamic_Line_Overview And details about your phones http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki//index.php?title=Yamaha_YH-3 

The ortho thread is sooooooo long that this search tool http://headfi.qix.it/ which is the head-fi mega threads search tool can show you everything you need to know just put YH-3 or YH3 in the Ortho search box and you will have ALL the info you will ever need on your phones. Man you got the deal of the century......Really great buy. I hope you enjoy them. 

There is just something about ortho's that can't be beat. Enjoy and if you have any questions feel free to post them here or at head-fi ( there is also a huge ortho post over at www.head-case.org ) or shoot me a PM.

Welcome to the ortho club my friend!

Chris


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## mobayrasta (May 10, 2010)

Also if the headphones ever break the drivers make excellent transplant drivers. You can put them in a variety of other shells. 

Still having a problem with you getting them so CHEAP, you are a lucky man...... LOL


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## drrick (Nov 16, 2006)

I'm a big fan of my Sennheiser HD580's. I drive them with a home-built M3 headphone amp. I also own some Grado SR60's that I'm not a fan of. While my favorite for general listening are the 580's, I also like having IEM's for shutting out the world. I own some ER-4's, some UE Super.fi 5 Pro's, and some custom IEM's built by (the now-defunct) Freq. I loved the sound of the Ultimate Ears, but absolutely hated the design and fit. Never got them to feel comfortable. Absolutely love having custom IEM's. Can't beat the comfort, and when I need to shut out the world, they sure do the trick!


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## denydog (Dec 20, 2008)

I use ER-6i's on the motorcycle, but would love to get custom fitted IEM's someday.


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

Two of my current faves are the JH Audio JH13 Pro IEM and Audeze LCD-2 open-ears. JH also has an active tri-amp set of IEM.


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## Andrey (Dec 11, 2011)

Audeez has sick rews But Ety are best on earth for precision. 

PS: if you just as user want to enjoy music - get HD800.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

My systems have been updated over the last month quite a bit. 

Desktop:
Sennheiser HD-800 headphone + SPL Phonitor + Lavry DA10 + Squeezebox Touch
&
Squeezebox Touch + Lavry DA10 + Yamamoto HA-02 + Ultrasone Edition 9

Portable:
Apple iPod 4G + Fostex HP-P1 + Beyerdynamic DT-1350 (Moon Audio IEM Silver Dragon cable)
or AT-ESP10JPN


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## Andrey (Dec 11, 2011)

Lavry is really nice choise Especially with phonitor!


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

My latest semi-portable setup: Beyer DT1350 with Moon Audio IEM Silver Dragon cables + ALO Continental V2 tube amp or Fostex HP-P1 DAC/Amp (solid state) + iPod Touch. I am using the Moon Audio iPod to USB IEM Silver Dragon IC and an ALO SXC mini-mini IC.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

My portable setup has matured to include a balanced dac and amp in the iBasso DB2 balanced dac and the RSA SR-71B balanced amp. I now have two balanced headphones, the DT1350 and the Senn HD-25-1. Both headphones having been terminated with a connection where I can go either ended ended or balanced.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

I own AKG-702. The Sennheiser HD-800s look tasty, but I have been Eyeing up the Beyerdynamic Tesla 1 headphones for a while now. I think those are the one's I'd likely spend my hard earned money on. With any money left over, I'd probably get an amp from Grace or SPL.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

Just added a Westone 4r earphone and new replacement IEM Silver Dragon cable.


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

The brick above you see in my post has been replaced with my new iBasso DX100 DAP, very nice sound.

Showing the Westone W4r with Moon Audio IEM Silver Dragon cable with the quarter inch connector attached. I have a eight inch and a RSA SR-71B connector as well:


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## slwiser (Jul 15, 2006)

I now have added a new amp to my DX100; the ALO Rx Mk3 which is the newest balance portable amp on the market. Also shown are the Westone 4r and ES5.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

If any of you get a chance, please chime in on our headphone review series round-up thread...

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/headphones-head-gear/63123-headphone-review-round-up.html


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Audio-Technica ATH-ES55BK - great portables
Sennheiser HD 600 - great sound, a little tight
AKG K 701 - flat, accurate, comfortable, great sound
Denon AH-D2000 - great sound, comfortable, don't own them but _wish I did_


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Beyerdynamic DT 880 for use with the Headroom Dac/Amp and Denon 5000 with the Nuforce Icon for those. Usually powered by a newest version Ipod filled with lossless music. Love them both.
When just hanging our I still use my Grado 60's and they still rock.


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