# AVR/SUB/Center advice



## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

So I scrapped the $600 budget and have decided to not go 5.1 at once. I am going to build up through the year.

Room size
13' 7" x 14' 1" 
8" ceiling

First Phase

Mains Polk Monitor 50's or 60's 
Center Polk CS10, CS20, CS1, CS2 also would a monitor 40 work as center?
AVR Onkyo TX-SR607 or Onkyo TX-SR308
BRP Panasonic DMP-BD35K 

Do I need the power and upscaling of the 607 or can I get by with the 308? Oh and the 607 has Audyssey which I think would be nice to have. I hear the Panasonic BRP's upscaling is comparable to Oppo's. I am not quite sure why I would need upscaling in the AVR if it's in the BRP. I could even go with three Monitor 40's for mains but those Monitor 50's and 60's can get awfully cheap on newegg. 

Second Phase 

SUB 
Dayton SUB-120, Polk PSW110, Polk PSW10, Boston Acoustics CSSUB10B, Velodyne VX-11, Klipsch SUB10

Surrounds 
Polk Monitor 10's, 30's or 40's

There are quite a few sub choices out there $300 and under. From what I have read, Polk subs are not that great. Does the quality of Velodyne, Klipsch and Boston Acoutics make up for the smaller driver in comparison to the Dayton? Also my room is not that large.


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## RBTO (Jan 27, 2010)

A note on the Panasonic BD35 - it's an older unit and generally isn't available anymore (except for a few outlets that still have a stock of them). You'd be much ahead to spend a little more and, at least, get the BD65 which has SD card and thumb drive capability, as well as being compatible with many of the download services (Netflix, UTube, etc.) when web connected. The BD65 still isn't a new generation machine, but it's much improved over the BD35 in terms of features. As you mentioned, upscaling in these machines is excellent, although I'm not familiar enough to compare it to an OPTO.
Personally, I'd go for the BDT100 which is 3D capable and still costs less than the BD35 did some three years ago when it came out new. I'm not sure what its web capabilities are though.


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

> A note on the Panasonic BD35 - it's an older unit and generally isn't available anymore (except for a few outlets that still have a stock of them). You'd be much ahead to spend a little more and, at least, get the BD65 which has SD card and thumb drive capability, as well as being compatible with many of the download services (Netflix, UTube, etc.) when web connected. The BD65 still isn't a new generation machine, but it's much improved over the BD35 in terms of features. As you mentioned, upscaling in these machines is excellent, although I'm not familiar enough to compare it to an OPTO.
> Personally, I'd go for the BDT100 which is 3D capable and still costs less than the BD35 did some three years ago when it came out new. I'm not sure what its web capabilities are though.



The only thing I want as far as web services go is netflix because the only way to get the "HD" streaming from netflix is through enbeded devices. I do not understand why it's not available through the Windows Media Center plugin. Even then, web features are not make or break for me. I want to get the best quality BDP I can get for $150.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

DaddyDan2Five said:


> So I scrapped the $600 budget and have decided to not go 5.1 at once. I am going to build up through the year.
> 
> Room size
> 13' 7" x 14' 1"
> ...


Hello,
I would go with at least the 607 and ideally, the TX-SR706 or 707. By stepping up to the 700 Series, you get Audyssey's far more capable MultEQ as opposed to 2EQ, THX Post Processing, stronger Amplifier Section, and Preamp Outputs for adding outboard Amplificaton. It is a far more flexible platform that gives you room to grow whereas the 600 and 300 do not.

If having to choose between the two listed, I would go with the 607, but still think the 700 Series minimum is the way to go. Personally, I would look for a used TX-SR805. This AVR is a classic and remains to me the greatest value of the HDMI Era. It offers the Amplifier Section comparable to a Flagship AVR and also offers MultEQ XT.
Cheers,
JJ


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

Thanks for the great advice. Can you give my any advice on the sub and center options that I listed above?


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## taoggniklat (Mar 30, 2010)

Personally I would go with a sub from HSU (STF-2 is on sale right now), SVS, eD, Epik if at all possible before looking to Klipsch, Polk or other similar brands. even Lava subs seem to be doing well for their price according to feedback on AVS.

$300 is low for good subs and I personally would do my best to increase that even to $400. You might be able to find a sale or deal for one of the above mentioned brands. If you absolutely have to stay under $300, the BIC F12 has quite a following on AVS as well and can be found under $200 online.


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## taoggniklat (Mar 30, 2010)

DaddyDan2Five said:


> Thanks for the great advice. Can you give my any advice on the sub and center options that I listed above?


I am not a big fan of Polk speakers, particularly the budget series. So I can't really give you any advice on their center channel speakers.

Are you opposed to buying used equipment? What about a Sub/bookshelf combo instead of cheap towers?

HSU HBMK1 $258 (on sale now)
HSU STF-2 $319 (on sale)

SVS SBS-02 $269
SVS PB10NSD $499

For example


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

DaddyDan2Five said:


> Thanks for the great advice. Can you give my any advice on the sub and center options that I listed above?


Hello,
I quite like the Advice offered from Tao. Both HSU and SVS make fantastic Subwoofers and Speakers. If more inclined to listening to Music, I would go with the SVS as they employ Dome Tweeters. If mostly into HT, the HSU's Horn Loaded Design gives you high levels of SPL with very little Amplifier Power due to thier Efficiency.

Both Companies made their Name by Designing fantastic Subwoofers for the Dollar and continue to do so. Also, I love PSB Speakers and they are available heavily Discounted from DMC-Electronics and Saturday Audio. Especially PSB's now discontinued Image T45, T55, etc. The Image Series is still being made, but now with new Models. There are not massive changes with the new ones and the Savings on the old ones is large.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Is there a reason your going with Polk? if its just price have a look at the Yambeka's

http://www.yambekaaudio.com/

here is a review

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-yambeka-audio-7-0-speaker-system-review.html

As for subs I am partial to the SVS cylinders. I own the PC12 NSD. However if price is a major factor I would probably look at a Dayton 12 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635

I would stay with the 6xx Onkyo, or better.


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

> Is there a reason your going with Polk? if its just price have a look at the Yambeka's


I was going with Polk because of price and reviews. From looking at review and pricing I figured the Polk Monitor series was like the entry level to quality audio. Every time I think I have it figured out you guys toss a wrench in the works. So Polk is not good for HT? They seem to have a lot of loyalists.




> Are you opposed to buying used equipment? What about a Sub/bookshelf combo instead of cheap towers


I am not opposed to used at all. I just want to find a trust worthy source. I have looked at Saturday but much of what they had was very expensive (which I know is subjective in quality audio). I liked the towers because I would not have to use stands. I have little ones and I would be worried about them getting knocked over.

My budget is $1,000 - $1,400 total. I would like to start with an AVR, Mains and a BR player.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
DMC-Electronics has been selling the PSB Image T45 for $479.00 (749 MSRP) and it is an awesome value at MSRP and an insane value at around 40% off. 
Here is a Review of the T45:http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/psb_image_t45.htm
Cheers,
JJ


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

I have read great things about the T45's. $500 may be a great value I just think that it would be hard to piece together a 5.1 system with the L and R channels taking a massive bite out of my budget. What does the matching center channel go for?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

AVR Onkyo TXSR508 $199.99 http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...hannel-3-D-Ready-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html

Speakers Yambeka 5.1 $299.99 (see above link)

Blu Ray Panny BDT100 is $210 at Newegg or you can get a PS3 with bundle for $299 (for the little ones).

Dayton 12" sub $140 (see above link)

Cables/wire (not name brand i.e. monstercable) $50

Total $990. Some of the rest will go to shipping/taxes..etc


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

> AVR Onkyo TXSR508 $199.99 http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html
> 
> Speakers Yambeka 5.1 $299.99 (see above link)
> 
> ...


Thank you Andre for your reply. I am well aware of those options. Cost is a concern but so is quality. Yambeka is a compelling option as I live in Delaware Ohio which is very near the Yambeka offices. I've read of a few people being able to pick them to save on shipping.


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

> AVR Onkyo TXSR508 $199.99 http://www.accessories4less.com/make...eceiver/1.html
> 
> Speakers Yambeka 5.1 $299.99 (see above link)
> 
> ...


Thank you Andre for your reply. I am well aware of those options. Cost is a concern but so is quality. Yambeka is a compelling option as I live in Delaware Ohio which is very near the Yambeka offices. I've read of a few people being able to pick them to save on shipping.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

There website doesn't have warranty information. If they are close to you, perhaps an email or call to find out if they have a 30day guarntee or a 5-10 in home trial.


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

> Hello,
> I would go with at least the 607 and ideally, the TX-SR706 or 707. By stepping up to the 700 Series, you get Audyssey's far more capable MultEQ as opposed to 2EQ, THX Post Processing, stronger Amplifier Section, and Preamp Outputs for adding outboard Amplificaton. It is a far more flexible platform that gives you room to grow whereas the 600 and 300 do not.
> 
> If having to choose between the two listed, I would go with the 607, but still think the 700 Series minimum is the way to go. Personally, I would look for a used TX-SR805. This AVR is a classic and remains to me the greatest value of the HDMI Era. It offers the Amplifier Section comparable to a Flagship AVR and also offers MultEQ XT.
> Cheers, JJ


I don't really understand all of the equipment outside of the AVR. THX post processing, out board amps and pre/pro's are things I'm trying to read about but it's hard to find an all in one explanation of what the equipment, outside of the AVR, does. I kinda understand the out board amps. Some things just seem redundant to me. Like why to you buy high end BR players from Oppo that have great upscaling when you have high power AVR's that have it as well. It just seems to me that there is a lot going on. Is there a flow chart that shows the "flow" of the audio and video signals through the various components of basic set ups that have just an AVR, BR player and speakers up to a more advance system that includes out board amps and pre/pros?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

If your running a Blu Ray through HDMI then upscaling doesn't matter, From the Player to the screen nothing should be done to the signal. Sound on the other hand is processed by the receiver, the signal from the player is divided into its components (L/C/R..etc), processed according to what you have set your Receiver too (e.g. Dolby HD), further processed by Audesy if you have it, amplified by your onboard (out outboard) amps, then passed to the speakers.

Most of everthing else attached to the receiver is switching between sources, the above adjustments between sources, routing to more then one screen, routing to more then one room. 

As for outboard amps, pre/pros, external FM receiver..etc etc, think of them as just a deconstructed receiver. Are they any better? They can be, however, the cost to performance improved ratio is very high.

Audessy is able to make a wonderful difference in sound seemingly by magic, hence the reason most recommend it. Since cost is an issue, I recommended the lowest (least bells and whistles) Onkyo that still has atleast the lower level of Audessy.

Adding $150 to your AVR budget (still within your $1400) nets you a 707 with more power and a higher lvl of Audessy


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## taoggniklat (Mar 30, 2010)

DaddyDan2Five said:


> I don't really understand all of the equipment outside of the AVR. THX post processing, out board amps and pre/pro's are things I'm trying to read about but it's hard to find an all in one explanation of what the equipment, outside of the AVR, does. I kinda understand the out board amps. Some things just seem redundant to me. Like why to you buy high end BR players from Oppo that have great upscaling when you have high power AVR's that have it as well. It just seems to me that there is a lot going on. Is there a flow chart that shows the "flow" of the audio and video signals through the various components of basic set ups that have just an AVR, BR player and speakers up to a more advance system that includes out board amps and pre/pros?


An AVR is basically all of that in one box. All of the other stuff (amplifiers, pre-pro is simply just separating all those componants into separate units. 

Maybe this perspective helps... An AVR is like a jack of all trades...master of none. That is a generic statement and most of today's AVRs are quite good at doing all they do (amplifiers, video processing, etc), sometimes other equipment does it better. Getting an AVR with pre-amplifier outputs allow you to upgrade the amplifier section later on without replacing the AVR. You don't "have to", but it at least gives you the option later on.


I think what people are suggesting is that if you go with an AVR, try to pick one that allows you to upgrade it later on, thus getting more return on your investment. Many of the AVR's made today make excellent pre/pro units by adding external amplifiers.

Hope that helps.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

DaddyDan2Five said:


> I don't really understand all of the equipment outside of the AVR. THX post processing, out board amps and pre/pro's are things I'm trying to read about but it's hard to find an all in one explanation of what the equipment, outside of the AVR, does. I kinda understand the out board amps. Some things just seem redundant to me. Like why to you buy high end BR players from Oppo that have great upscaling when you have high power AVR's that have it as well. It just seems to me that there is a lot going on. Is there a flow chart that shows the "flow" of the audio and video signals through the various components of basic set ups that have just an AVR, BR player and speakers up to a more advance system that includes out board amps and pre/pros?


Hello,
I am not aware of a Flowchart, but all I can say is once you start putting together a quality HT, things become easier to understand. Due to the type of Speakers that I use, I have to use outboard Amplification which means I use my AVR as a Prepro and do not use the Amplifiers in the AVR.

As to why I purchased an OPPO, it is simply a fantastic BDP that boasts some of the fastest Loading Times on the Market and also plays SACD's and DVD-A's that I own a large collection of.

The need for adding an Amplifier is predicated on the type of Speakers used, size of the Room, and listening preferences. Some value the ability to have super high SPL Playback of DVD's and BD's. If not using efficient Speakers, Amplifiers are often needed to accomplish this.
Cheers,
JJ


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## DaddyDan2Five (Nov 11, 2010)

> Hello,
> I am not aware of a Flowchart, but all I can say is once you start putting together a quality HT, things become easier to understand. Due to the type of Speakers that I use, I have to use outboard Amplification which means I use my AVR as a Prepro and do not use the Amplifiers in the AVR.
> 
> As to why I purchased an OPPO, it is simply a fantastic BDP that boasts some of the fastest Loading Times on the Market and also plays SACD's and DVD-A's that I own a large collection of.
> ...


Thanks for all of the advice and information Jack. I am considering going with three bookshelves to start. The main reason that I was looking at the Polk Monitor 50's and 60's was that I would not need stands. Most of the stands that I were seeing made me think that I might as well go with towers. I recently found Elemental Designs and they have nice prices on stands. 

I would like to have a complete soundstage when I start off. If I go with T45's I would not be able to do that. I have seen some good prices on PSB bookshelves sold in pairs. Do you know of a place where I can get a single speaker to match the pair? What bookshelves would recommended from a given line that have decent matching towers? That way I can move the bookshelves to surround duty when I'm able to upgrade.

Also what are the thought's on Polk? I could get three Monitor 40's which have two 5.25 drivers which I would assume would give me a fuller sound than bookshelves with just one driver.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

The Yambeka's mains for floorstanding. If you are adverse to speakers outside the name brand areas, then Polk, Infinity, Energy and Klipich should have sets for under 1k. Used or discontinued items you would really have to listen to them


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