# Vintage Receiver + Subwoofer/Center problem



## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

Hi all,

I've seen a lot of topics about hooking up subs to receivers with no dedicated sub out, but I've never managed to find a solution to my specific scenario.

I have an old Pioneer VSX-9300, which has only a single unpowered MONO center out, but two pairs of fronts (so A and B LRs) and a single pair of rears. The sub only has a single MONO in and no outs.

I'm not entirely sure how I'm "supposed" to be hooking this up. Right now I have it hooked up to my center channel, but as I understand it subs typically don't go on the center channel on these vintage receivers. When I eventually get a pre-amp for the center speaker, I'll need that mono out for that anyway (and even if I find a pre-amp with multiple outs, I don't think I should be plugging a pre-amp into a powered sub anyway). 

My current plan is to use a Y-adapter to split the Center connection, then run one side to the pre-amp and Center channel and the other side to the sub. But again, is it typical to run a sub on the center channel if it's not a sub dedicated LFE? Everything I've read seems to suggest that's wrong.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

I don't think that using the center preamp out is an effective solution. If you must do it this way, put the center in "wide" mode as that directs more bass to the center. Having _only_ a mono preamp input seems a bit odd. Most have speaker level inputs, too.

According to the online manual that I found, the Pioneer VSX-9300 AVR does have a mono sub output. 

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/p...38551425VSX-9300TX OPERATING INSTRUCTIONS.pdf

Maybe this is an updated model (its model is VSX-9300*TX*), but it's worth a second look. What is the make and model of the subwoofer? If it has speaker level inputs you could try using the B speaker outs to power the subwoofer. 

Please try to locate the sub model and maybe I can offer a better solution. Thanks!


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

Hey, thanks for the help. = )

The Receiver is actually a VSX-9300S (the front of the device omits the S). The Sub is a Pinnacle Sub 300 (unfortunately I can't post a link, but you can find it on the Pinnacle Speakers website).

The Receiver also has pre-out and powered-in L/R ports, however using them disables the standard speaker ports. = (


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that model receiver is Dolby Pro Logic and requires an outboard amp to power the center. Pro logic does not have a separate LFE (subwoofer) channel, and that is part of the problem. 

I can't find an online manual or pic of the AVR, so I'm not sure why "_The Receiver also has pre-out and powered-in L/R ports, however using them disables the standard speaker ports_." My guess is that it uses shorting couplers (cables or just a thick U-shaped piece of metal that stick into the middle of the RCA jacks) to run from the preamp output to the preamp input. If that's the case, you can use two Y adapters (2 male to 1 female) to run _from_ the outputs _to_ the inputs, then you can use another y adapter (2 female to 1 male) to run to the single input on the subwoofer.

Two of these between the preamp outputs/preamp inputs (one for Left channel and one for the Right channel):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-125

One of these to combine the signal to the subwoofer:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=240-127

I hope that this helps. You may also want to consider upgrading to the newer formats (DTS, Dolby Digital, DTS-MA, Dolby TrueHD) with a new AVR. They are MUCH better sounding than Pro logic. Good luck!!


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

Oh I hadn't thought of that! Thanks I will try it out!

As for a new receiver, I'm currently in a condo so I'm not sure dropping $500+ (for a decent one, as I understand it) would be worth it given I'd never really be able to really push it to its limits without angering my neighbors. Based on what I've read, this old receiver puts out much nicer/warmer sound than most modern receivers in the $200-300 range, especially in Canada where the markup and tax means $200-$300 gets you even less than in the States (oh how I loathe that so many Ebay/Amazon sellers don't ship here!). 

Unless you have a good recommendation for me? = )


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

I just thought of something. If I do this Y-Adapter trick, would that mean the L/R speakers would essentially be bypassing the Receiver's pre-amp and using the Sub's? Or am I mistaken?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

laughingMAN said:


> I just thought of something. If I do this Y-Adapter trick, would that mean the L/R speakers would essentially be bypassing the Receiver's pre-amp and using the Sub's?


No. You are simply taking the signal from the AVR's preamp stage and sending it to both the subwoofer's and AVR's amps. You'll set the level (and crossover) on the sub and use the AVR's volume control. I hope that this works for you!


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

BTW-there are TONS of new AVRs on the market at just about every price point. Yamaha, Denon, HK, Onkyo and Pioneer all offer affordable options. Look for Auto set-up/room EQ, 24bit/196k DACs, HDMI v1.4 switching, DTS-MA and DD-TrueHD; these are "must haves" for a new AVR. There are other options, but they depend on your listening habits, likes, dislikes etc.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Accessories for less ships most receivers to Canada other than Onkyo for some reason. This Marantz 5006 would do you nicely


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

Wow, thanks so much for the tips. This forum seems way more friendly than AVR.

After doing some reading, it seems I was mistaken and the difference in Prologic vs true 5.1 is more than simply volume (especially since I'll be using this way more for gaming and movies than straight up music). I think I will consider a change in receivers after all. = )


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

I meant so much friendlier than "AVS"


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

laughingMAN said:


> Wow, thanks so much for the tips. This forum seems way more friendly than AVR


THANKS; we are all here to help!!


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Accessories for less ships most receivers to Canada other than Onkyo for some reason. This Marantz 5006 would do you nicely


Rats, it seems they also don't ship the Marantz or Denons to Canada either. = \


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

Would either of you fine folks recommend the Marantz NR1602? http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=item&id=MARNR1602&extra=a%3A2%3A{i%3A0%3Bs%3A40%3A%2203823345592a403b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1%22%3Bi%3A1%3BN%3B}


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If you just looking for something that will fill a small space, yes that NR1602 would do just fine


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

I realize I may be getting a little "needy" here, but I promise this'll be the last one. = )

For $460 total (including shipping), do you think this Marantz 1602 or the Denon 1912 would provide better value? Or would it be pretty much a wash?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I would rather go with the Denon 1912 given your budget.


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

Cool. Thanks again for the help. Sometimes I really wish I lived in the States. >_<


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

Sadly it looks like NONE of the receivers ship to Canada. So it's back to searching for me. = (


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Check out Electronics for less in Canada I have not used them but they seem good.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

One thing that I noticed about the Denon is that it will play FLAC files. I think that's worth considering. Although I did not see FLAC playback _specifically_ listed for the Marantz, it _may_ play FLAC files. The future of music seems to be shifting to "cloud"/music server/PC storage, so FLAC playback ability is a big plus IMHO.


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## laughingMAN (Mar 26, 2012)

I managed to snag myself a Denon 1912 for $425 (although closer to $500 with Canadian taxes). Not an amazing deal, but I think very reasonable. = )

For the record, I tried the Y-Adapter thing with my current vintage receiver and it worked like a charm. The sub sounds about 1000x better (or should I say, "more correct") when not plugged into the Center channel. = )


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

laughingMAN said:


> I managed to snag myself a Denon 1912 for $425 (although closer to $500 with Canadian taxes). Not an amazing deal, but I think very reasonable. = )
> 
> For the record, I tried the Y-Adapter thing with my current vintage receiver and it worked like a charm. The sub sounds about 1000x better (or should I say, "more correct") when not plugged into the Center channel. = )


You will be amazed at the difference in sq when your new receiver arrives! I'm glad that the y-adapters worked; you have tunes until your new AVR arrives and can always use it as a secondary system. Good luck!!


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