# Monitor/TV for bright-ish family room



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

We have decided to bite the bullet and replace a perfectly functional older (7+ years old) 46" Sharp Aquos for a 65" 4K HDR television/monitor. The Aquos works very well in the environment, a family room, where it is located. I say this because some of my questions would be better answered in an objective manner but I don't have the tools to measure some of the things I may need to measure. So by using the existing Aquos as a comparison perhaps we can intuit the answers.

My budget is $1,000 to $2,000 for this purchase. I would like to get as much bleeding edge tech as I can (HDR10, Dolby Vision,etc.). Sound is not an issue as it is handled by an existing 7.1 system. The main content viewed will be "TV" shows and sports (football mainly). Most movies we watch in the living room.

My inclination is to spring for the Vizio M or P series as they are in my price range, and have lots of bells & whistles. My hesitation on these devices is I have read that they are bad for bright rooms (no objective definition of what that means, nor a way to compare against what I currently have).

Some questions;

Does anyone know where I can find a brightness number that I can reliably compare between current MFR's displays? Vizio & Samsung for example.

Does anyone have a guess as to the brightness of my existing Aquos (non LED)? Either absolute (nits) or relative (about twice as bright as the Visio M65-D0).

Has anyone had experience with the 2016 M or P series by Vizio? How dim is it? How bad is the off angle viewing?

What 65" would you currently recommend for this application?


----------



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

Hello?

I was hoping to get some help over here.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I dont know where you can find actual numbers on brightness but I do know that if you stay with the major brands and if you go with either OLED or LED backlit displays (not just edge lite) you wont be disappointed. the main manufacturers have made great strides in getting the most contrast out of displays.
Be aware that brightness and contrast are two different things, an overly bright display may simply have poor black levels and be washed out. Contrast is a better number to look at but even those number that manufacturers use tend to be exaggerated.


----------



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

Tnoyvdb, thanks for the reply. The Vizio has full array led lighting with 64 zones on the M series and 128 zones on the P series.

The only negative I have seen on these TVs is a few reviews have indicated they aren't very bright. Unfortunately I have no way to judge what that means. So I am hoping someone has experience, or can help me to determine if it would be a good fit.

They are not available in any stores in my area to AB compare them to a Samsung or other TV either.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Personally, im not sure I would put Visio in the same category as Sony, LG Panasonic ETC. Im sure someone here can add to this just be patient. I will send Robert Zohn a message as he is the guy that should be able to answer this.


----------



## Robert Zohn (Aug 13, 2011)

Hi Paul and Tony,

Tony thanks for inviting me to this discussion. 

My only Vizio experience is with the flagship "R" series and they are not as bright as Samsung's flagship KS9800 or Sony's 940D. Also since the R series in limited to Dolby Vision HDR we have not been able to test its differences with HDR10 content against Samsung's KS9800 or Sony's 940D. Also, we have not tested the M or P series I can't comment on them.

We've sold a lot of LG's 65UH8500 and they are on sale now for $1,699 delivered. Edge lit, vs. Vizio's back-lit, but LG's local dimming algorithm helps this TV deliver a very good 1080 FHD and 4K Ultra HD HDR image quality.

Hope this helps.


----------



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

Robert, thanks for providing insight. A software/firmware update for the P & M (not sure about the R series) series provides HDR10 now.

How does the local dimming of the edge lit LG, which I guess I could envision how it might work, sort of, compare to the Vizio R series 384 zone full array that you have worked with? It is my understanding that the LG supports both Dolby Vision and HDR10. Comparing to an OLED would be unfair, however as they are not in my price range.

Since I have no empirical numbers to deal with, do you have any idea how bright (subjectively) a 7-10 year old Sharp Aquos (fluorescent, I'm sure) would be in comparison to modern LED televisions? Compared to he Vizio R series you have tested? 

As I mentioned, the Sharp is bright enough for the environment.

The LG price seems squarely in the middle of the M series $1,248 and P series $1,999 Vizio.


----------



## Robert Zohn (Aug 13, 2011)

Yes, Vizio has a firmware update for the M and P series to decode HDR10, but not the flagship R series. 

I don't know the peak lumens would be on your Sharp TV, but any TV you buy today will be much brighter. If you get a Premium HDR capable LCD/LED TV it will deliver at least 1k-nits. For HDR higher lumens is only used for specular highlights so the entire screen is not typically brighter with most content.

For $2,398 you can get LG's flagship 65UH9500, which is a true 10-bit HDR panel. LG's B6 or C6 65" 4K HDR OLED is $3,898 delivered and through authorized dealers LG is running a 18 month interest free finance promotion.


----------



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

If I read what you are saying then, if I find the 7-10 YO fluorescent Sharp Aquos acceptable brightness wise, any new TV including the Vizio M & P series should be at least as bright.

Is there any specific reason that you would recommend against the Vizio?

I generally pay for things except cars & houses with cash (credit card and pay it off at the end of the month). Zero % financing with interest rates as low as they are is actually more of a pain than it is worth. I chose my budget based on what I saw as the knee in the technology/price curve (with a little spousal reality check). When it comes time to replace my 58" Panasonic plasma in the living room, I will look into the OLEDs.

So if brightness is not a concern, and I hear no other reasons not to buy the Vizio, I think they have everything technically I could hope for except OLED. The only decision is;

M-series M65-D0 64 zones of dimming, no wide color gamut, one HDMI 2.0, 4 HDMI 1.4 ports, 720p tablet with 8GB memory as a remote ~ $1,249 delivered.

or

P-series P65-C1 128 zones of dimming wide color gamut, four HDMI 2.0, one HDMI 1.4 ports, 1080p tablet with 16GB memory as a remote ~$1,899 delivered.


----------



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Hi Paul -

Curious, what kind of content (cable, OTA, Blu-ray, etc) are you watching on the TV?

+1 on Robert's advice... he sees and interacts with these televisions on a daily basis and rubs elbows with lots of the industry's big name experts. His shop, Value Electronics, is very easy to work with if you decide to order through him. I think you'd be very happy.


----------



## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

aceinc said:


> My budget is $1,000 to $2,000 for this purchase. I would like to get as much bleeding edge tech as I can (HDR10, Dolby Vision,etc.).





aceinc said:


> If I read what you are saying then, if I find the 7-10 YO fluorescent Sharp Aquos acceptable brightness wise, any new TV including the Vizio M & P series should be at least as bright.
> 
> M-series M65-D0 64 zones of dimming, no wide color gamut, one HDMI 2.0, 4 HDMI 1.4 ports, 720p tablet with 8GB memory as a remote ~ $1,249 delivered.
> 
> ...


From what you said in your original post the P-Series is your TV. Get it and be happy. I myself would get a less expensive TV now and upgrade in a few years ones HDR stuff is all over the place and after getting a UHD Bluray player.


----------



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

Todd, This TV will be for daily watching. Mainly TV shows, and Football games on the weekends.

I have never had the opportunity to work with Robert before, and I was asking for advice. However he does not indicate any specific issues with Vizio, only that the LG models that he sells are great. He did not provide any specific reasons why the LG is better.

Being metaphorically from Missouri, it is hard for me to believe an edge lit TV simulating a backlit screen can compete with a true 128 zone backlit display. 

At this point LG has one of the best displays on the market in their OLED line of displays. That is not in my budget. I also think that the Mercedes S550 Coupe is great to, but I am not sure a C300 competes favorably with cars in its price class (which I might afford). 

After discussing it with my wife, we have decided that the P65-C1 looks like a display that we can live with for the next 5 -10 years (Lord willing and the creek don't rise). The price of that display is $1,899-$1,999.

I am still interested in recommendations for a 65" display 4K, HDR10 & Dolby Vision that competes favorably with the P65-C1. But I would like some specific reason why it is as good as or better than the VIZIO.

If, after I make my final decision, one of HTS vendors sells the display I choose, and prices are close, I will certainly buy from them.


----------



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Completely understand.

A buddy of mine picked up a 65-in P series TV. For the money, it's not a bad set. His, much to my chagrin, is not calibrated. And the first time I watched a game on it he had frame interpolation dialed to the max. The room the TV resides in is loaded with Windows.

Off axis isn't terrible, but (like most LCD, it does effect blacks and color.

If memory serves me correct, David K. at CNET gives the Vizio P and M series TVs high marks.

One thing to consider is that we are getting late in the year... That means we'll start to get info about new models as we approach CES... And eventual price drops as the new models rollout. 

I'm guessing you're looking for a new set to enjoy the upcoming football season?


----------



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

Actually it is my wife that likes football, I'll watch it, but I'm not a big fan. Id' rather be doing something on the computer, or putzing around in the garage when it isn't too hot.

I guess I just have the upgrade itch, finances are OK, technologically we skipped over LED and 3D, 4K has been out for a little while, and prices have come down. HDR looks promising, and I see this as testing the water for replacing the 58" Plasma in the living room where we watch movies. If/when the prices of OLED come down we may get one of those. We'll move the Aquos into my Mother-in-law's area replacing a 37" 720p so the TV won't hit the dump. One of the guys I work with wants the 37" TV, so it seems to work out.


----------



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I think you'll be happy if you take the time to set it up correctly. Expectations are everything, and as long as you know the set will have some limitations, you'll be content!


----------



## Robert Zohn (Aug 13, 2011)

Paul, sent you a PM with my opinions.


----------

