# Cheap isolation solution



## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Mapleshades has some product called "isoblocks" which is a dual rubber membrane with a cork core. My uncle knows by these. The price isn't too extreme... $40 for a set for 2x2" and $24 for a set of 1.5" x 1.5" found here:http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/Isoblocks/products/1/ 

anyway my uncle mentinoed he needed to make 12 more sets to finish off his equipment and with some rather easy searching I came across this: http://www.amazon.com/Pack-Anti-Vibration-Rubber-isolation/dp/B004HG9OKK

Now, these are 4x4 but you can cut them down into 2x2 squares and have 12 complete sets for $50! Remember to double stack them and my uncle says they are simply glued together using some adhesive spray like 3M 77. I sent the link to my uncle and he immediately ordered them and they are in route. I also ordered a set and can't wait to try them out to see if they make any significant difference or not.

You don't have to buy the 24pack... for $16 you can buy this: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1G8M7T1HE3MB34NKC627

and then cut them in halves and you got enough blocks for 2 pieces of equipment. For less than a good lunch you can try it out yourself and see if they work.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Got the pads in.... chopped them up, glued them and now are under my equipment. Very nice improvement indeed. Bass is more defined and vocals cleared up a bunch and are more focused. Soundstage is becoming more and more pinpoint.

By far the largest gains was doing the bluray but did all of them. Center channel in the movies really helped vocals. Much more lifelike as if they are breathing right there.

Jigged up a 1 1/2" gap on the miter box and went to town.... had some waste left over but my uncle insisted that 1 1/2" was the magical number. They are very stiff and without a doubt a set of 4 can handle easily 100lbs... since my amp is 70 it's doing just fine w/ that.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

My plan will be to treat all the gear but with the carpet I'll either have to use brass cones to poke through or cut out a square and install wood over just the equipment section and then stick to these pads.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Found a bit cheaper solution here:

http://controlscentral.com/eCatalog/tabid/63/ProductID/309966/Default.aspx


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Do you have some measurements of the effect? Isolation with such audible effects should be measurable I would think.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

I think I saw this episode of the Twilight Zone once. The system eventually sucks you into another dimension, watch out!!
Or was that Dementia...I can't seem to remember.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

lcaillo said:


> Do you have some measurements of the effect? Isolation with such audible effects should be measurable I would think.


http://www.amazon.com/Digi-Pas-DWL3000XY-0-01-Degree-Resolution-Machinist/dp/B0085HLO6Y


This is the only thing I would do to get a measurement before/after. A vibration meter.

As far as audio affects. My laptop is at work... I'll bring it home this weekend and run some before/after tests. I'll do a test with them installed and then remove them and test again.

I don't know how well it will measure though since its only capturing the amp/pre-amp and I feel the biggest gains out of the entire set was the bluray. I can still test the results on the center channel.

I'll run 3 back to back tests with them on.... then remove them and run 3 back to back tests.... average the before and average the after and see whats up.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Talley said:


> This is the only thing I would do to get a measurement before/after. A vibration meter.


Unfortunately those won't measure electrical output. Including that of you Bluray player.
For the "sound" of system to have change prior to the speaker terminals, the electrical signal would have to change. There is no way around this fact.
The speaker does indeed output vibrations. But it's input is purely electrical.
Good luck!:T

cheers


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

ajinfla said:


> Unfortunately those won't measure electrical output. Including that of you Bluray player.
> For the "sound" of system to have change prior to the speaker terminals, the electrical signal would have to change. There is no way around this fact.
> The speaker does indeed output vibrations. But it's input is purely electrical.
> Good luck!:T
> ...



Ya I get it... But people always want measurements too... and sometimes you just can't measure things. We are talking 2 channel listening.. can toe-in be measured? measurements always account for a single speaker... but yet we listen to two. Could having one speaker toed in by 15 degrees and another toed in by 20 degrees be measured? Measurements would more than likely be the same if they were angeld 15/20 vs 20/20 equal yet we would HEAR a much different case. So while I do agree measurements are good.... the end measurement is your soft fleshy goo between your ears. And for this everyone's measurement is subjective in nature.

I've been trying very hard lately to get along and play nice.... when can we chalk it up to something that we feel? Buying these to stick under your equipment of say 5 devices would cost around $25 and about a half hour of effort. Yet I see nobody try it. Foolish.

You can measure acoustic material and see a difference but if you installed 100% absorption vs. 100% diffusion to achieve the same "measurements" you'll get two totally different sounds. Quite frankly knowing the electrical tests that are performed on electrical AV equipment at the engineering/manufacture level.... nobody could ever achieve those levels of measurements based on consumer level equipment. You have two acoustic guitars w/ the same strings but one is made from maple and another one is i dunno some other kind of wood. How do you measure their sound? it's a known fact that all instruments are not created equally. 

My motto is don't knock it till you try it no matter how extreme it may be. Build the entire system leave nothing untouched.

Try this one for size..... Go mow your yard for 1 hour without ear protection and immediately go listen to your stereo then the next day mow for the same 1 hour but wear ear protection and listen again... which sounds better? How do you measure this? Did you measure your body temperature at each time? Does body temp have an affect on your perceived audio quality? Nasal passages clear? How much air CFM are you breathing? Is it less than yesterday? How many grams of ear wax do you have built up?

I'm ranting now... But I did offer TODD a few sets since I bought a big box of these things I can cut him up a bunch, glue them together and send them to him at NO charge... and I'm not a vendor or anything I just wanted him to try them out... I PM'd him yesterday and no answer. Why? Free Trial.


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

On their website it states they are not intended to be stuck directly underneath equipment or speakers, but should be used as part of their maple block vibration control system.
I can see their reasoning for this as the blocks would be too stiff for lightweight equipment to be effective and would provide minimal if any isolation. (Your test gear should be able to verify this is the case.) It is only the extra mass of the wooden block that gives this isolation.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Talley said:


> Ya I get it... But people always want measurements too...


Right, of the electrical variety from your Bluray players electrical outputs or other device purportedly affected by these widgets.
Otherwise, the "sound" change is of alternate origin. Cause>Effect.
No change in electrical output = not source of effect. Claiming a change in electrical output is an objective claim, not a subjective one.



Talley said:


> when can we chalk it up to something that we feel?


Any time. That is a different story entirely than ascribing an electrical change to the output of an electrical device...when there is none.
I have absolutely no doubt you are hearing the changes you believe you hear. As you said, that is your subjective experience. No need for explanation, if one understands the actual meaning of the word "subjective".
If these things increase your pleasure, by all means do so.
As they said in the Matrix, the mind makes it real.

cheers


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Didn't we vote on whether we could hear a diffference in sound quality between amps. I seem to remember this was a close 50/50 split. Well if we extrapolate out from there one might confer some , not all, system mods will alter sound quality with pleasing effects to some listeners while other mods may detract from sound quality with full agreement from all listeners. Isn't it possible some system tweaks will win unanimous vote of negative as well as positive effects. 

With any engineering education and/or experience, you know there is a measurable difference in sound using differing materials in speaker drivers and while we can take many different measurements of system parameters influencing the driver movements and sound reproduction but after all that what are the meters for measuring musicality and appreciation? 

You know sometimes I wonder..., maybe there are people who actually cannot hear the difference in one system parameter or another. How do we measure these? How would we know, I know my hearing ability has not improved over the years. How do we ever know who we are speaking to at any given moment and how/why they/we interpret sound qualities in the way we do individually.

None of this is any reason to attack, criticize or try to disprove any interpretation/statement of sound quality or an initial result of system modification..., its all a compromise of the real thing and eventually we will find fault and a need to make an improvement. Maybe a new speaker or different driver or an improvement in crossover parts, wires, sound isolation blocks or room treatments..., I have not heard the perfect system for all sound repro demands. 

By simply considering - set screws, speaker connections, electric plugs etc, all vibrate loose in time and are evidence of 60 cycle vibration throught the system even through DC lines. Aanything I can do to tame vibrations I will try. So far I like cork better than sorbothane but the two do seem complimentary I'm still looking for the third dissimilar material. :help:

Maybe what I really need is in the Krell Showcase electronics :huh: nice choice :T


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

robbo266317 said:


> On their website it states they are not intended to be stuck directly underneath equipment or speakers, but should be used as part of their maple block vibration control system.
> I can see their reasoning for this as the blocks would be too stiff for lightweight equipment to be effective and would provide minimal if any isolation. (Your test gear should be able to verify this is the case.) It is only the extra mass of the wooden block that gives this isolation.
> 
> View attachment 108041


Go to their site again and read their "claims" as I'll put loosely and read the last paragraph on the ISOBLOCK page. Here I'll quote it for you:



> In systems where optimal component mounting is either price or space prohibitive, Isoblocks can serve as an excellent, affordable problem-solver and performance upgrade. Where space constraints force you to stack equipment, Isoblocks are the best way to separate components. If you are forced to mount equipment on metal, glass, or stone shelving -- and simply do not have enough vertical clearance for brass footers *and our platform* -- then Isoblocks are an inexpensive means of mitigating the degrading effect of these seriously bad-sounding shelf materials. 30-Day Money Back.


Unfortnately for me I wanted my equipment under my screen centered and my screen projection is only 26" off the floor so I have a space restraint that I could never use their platforms with brass footers. This is all I'll be doing and if anything it's a piece of mind but audibly the vocals tightened up and the bass resolution improved along with the soundstage having additional depth. Of course thats just my mind playing tricks but if tricks makes my mind happy then trick on.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Gregr said:


> Didn't we vote on whether we could hear a diffference in sound quality between amps. I seem to remember this was a close 50/50 split. Well if we extrapolate out from there one might confer some , not all, system mods will alter sound quality with pleasing effects to some listeners while other mods may detract from sound quality with full agreement from all listeners. Isn't it possible some system tweaks will win unanimous vote of negative as well as positive effects.
> 
> With any engineering education and/or experience, you know there is a measurable difference in sound using differing materials in speaker drivers and while we can take many different measurements of system parameters influencing the driver movements and sound reproduction but after all that what are the meters for measuring musicality and appreciation?
> 
> ...


I'll throw my uncle out there who has tried every tweak imaginable... was a die hard black diamond racing cone fan for a long time and has tried many other products. He tried the maple stuff and now swears by it.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

The folks at Mapleshade have been experimenting with electronics for sound reproduction along with materials selection, configuration and placement that improve sound character for long enough to show interesting proof of concept products for sound improvement. 

I like Mapleshades minimalist wiring ideas. Although looking at a thin solid core copper wire in a 3/4" wide clear polypro baggie type insulator looks more like hype or something dreamt-up to look shockingly different than conventional power cables or interconnects. It might be easy to dismiss their claims of sound improvements especially as their prices steadily rise to nearly out of sight.

But their descriptions of concepts and the science are plausible enough that I bought a CD - recorded and mastered in their studios. I'll just say this about that - I find nothing lacking in their digital recordings @ 24/44.1. Whether I listen in my car or in my apartment the sound is detailed, musical, dead quiet between notes and sound stage instrumentation, vocals, percussion - all beautifully recorded. They have something added up correctly.

Also they have pages of advice that cost nothing. Their maximizing profits is the only hesitation I have...


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Hey Talley,

Have you considered getting a tube of chrome plated tubing for your rack? Cut to length, they add a real nice look when covering the threaded rods. Smear some wood putty in the cracks of the shelves, sand & paint to match the room. Presto!!! A beautiful rack all of a sudden to showcase that really nice equipment that you have. Just my 0.02.

Have you considered gluing the blocks together before you cut them? Just remember to rotate one of them 90 degrees first! Would save time in the long run lining up all those edges. I guess that's up to 0.04, sorry!

You might be able to fashion something like a large thumb tack (not sharp enough to damage the component), push it through one block before gluing them together so that the points would engage the bottom of BD Player for instance. Just thinking out loud since I know you like to play around with this stuff. Like a lot of us! That's 0.06 so I'm stopping. Good work on finding those on the cheap!


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Tonto said:


> Hey Talley,
> 
> Have you considered getting a tube of chrome plated tubing for your rack? Cut to length, they add a real nice look when covering the threaded rods. Smear some wood putty in the cracks of the shelves, sand & paint to match the room. Presto!!! A beautiful rack all of a sudden to showcase that really nice equipment that you have. Just my 0.02.


I like that idea, 0.02 well spent in my mind.


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

Talley said:


> Go to their site again and read their "claims" as I'll put loosely and read the last paragraph on the ISOBLOCK page. Here I'll quote it for you:
> 
> 
> In systems where optimal component mounting is either price or space prohibitive, Isoblocks can serve as an excellent, affordable problem-solver and performance upgrade. Where space constraints force you to stack equipment, Isoblocks are the best way to separate components. If you are forced to mount equipment on metal, glass, or stone shelving -- and simply do not have enough vertical clearance for brass footers and our platform -- then Isoblocks are an inexpensive means of mitigating the degrading effect of these seriously bad-sounding shelf materials. 30-Day Money Back.


That sounds more like "Ignore what we said earlier just buy our stuff".
Unfortunately you cannot escape the laws of physics and without sufficient mass they will be doing little if anything. (Let alone the psycho-acoustic effects, either real or imagined.)


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Tonto said:


> Hey Talley,
> 
> Have you considered getting a tube of chrome plated tubing for your rack? Cut to length, they add a real nice look when covering the threaded rods. Smear some wood putty in the cracks of the shelves, sand & paint to match the room. Presto!!! A beautiful rack all of a sudden to showcase that really nice equipment that you have. Just my 0.02.
> 
> ...



It took maybe 15 minutes to make 4 sets. Took nothing.

As far as the rack... I used MDF just to get me up and running. I'll be using 2" thick maple to replace the MDF later down the road and yes will be using copper pipe that will be polished and clear coated. 

I did rotate the blocks before I glued and I just used some 3M 77 spray adhesive. quick and effective.


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