# Samsung OLED KN55S9



## Robert Zohn

Take a look at this pdf data sheet on Samsung's OLED TV. Lots of exclusive information released now on this data sheet.

Any questions or comments?

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## tripplej

The curved OLED Samsung model is very interesting to say the least. When they released this model in Korea it was selling for around $13K should be interesting to see what they price it in August. 

Wonder if higher sized OLED versions will be available? Any beyond the 55 inch size?


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## wizziwig

Preliminary reports on the LG OLED on display in London,UK indicate it has visible screen burn-in from menus. Any idea if Samsung will be any better in this regard? Do any of the extended warranties offered by dealers cover burn-in? I think BB does on Plasma but not sure about OLED.

Pricing is obviously the most important questions. Any ballpark figure yet?


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## tripplej

For me personally, I would wait for the second round once all the bugs are worked out. Burn In, high price, and any other technical issues (longevity) would have to be resolved first.. Plus, I would like a bigger screen. 

Either way, it is good to see LG and Samsung make OLED tv's a reality.


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## Alan Brown

What does, "See colors like never before," mean?


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## tripplej

In regards to OLED, from what I have read, colors are more intense, not saturated - giving a more accurate representation of the colors being displayed. Also, when the picture moves, no shadow is seen.


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## Alan Brown

tripplej said:


> In regards to OLED, from what I have read, colors are more intense, not saturated - giving a more accurate representation of the colors being displayed. Also, when the picture moves, no shadow is seen.


Where did you read this? Can you provide a link to it? There have been various displays for years that can display colors accurately, according to video industry standards. Are you sure that is what Samsung meant? What do you mean by "shadow?"


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## tripplej

See link here... I was talking in general about OLED displays in terms of the color statement. 

Article is about the Samsung OLED ES9500




> "The ES9500’s self-emitting sub-pixels can individually reproduce life-like colors, creating a more immersive experience that draws the viewer into the action on the screen. OLED technology is also able to differentiate between varying degrees of blacks, enabling its unlimited contrast ratio to deliver unparalleled detail in shadows, shapes and subtle colors even in the darkest of scenes.
> 
> With no need for a separate light source, the ES9500 offers a fast response time, eliminating motion blur. That incredible speed translates into action scenes and sports games that are amazingly life-like and 3D experiences with virtually no crosstalk. "


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## tonyvdb

The "burn in" is troubling for me. I have a plasma and was hoping that burn in was going to be a thing of the past with OLED


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## tripplej

tonyvdb said:


> The "burn in" is troubling for me. I have a plasma and was hoping that burn in was going to be a thing of the past with OLED


I agree with you. "Burn In" is one thing that I can't stand. I had it on an old tv and every day, it pained me to see the station logo burned into the screen. I can't go back to that ever again! 

I will wait this one out a bit.


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## tonyvdb

I had a guest stay for a few days last month and they watched CNN for a few hrs and the dumb CNN logo was burnt in on my new Pasma, I was surprised how soon it happened fortunately it went away after a couple days of watching other things.
The Networks like CNN and TLC need to stop using such "Hot" logos


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## Robert Zohn

Proper panel aging helps prevent image retention and even burn in. Just to be clear image retention can be fixed, but burn-in is permanent and at best can be only partially fixed.

Some of the issue is the station logos that are too opaque, but a proper panel aging is always advisable. 

-Robert


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## Radtech51

tonyvdb said:


> The "burn in" is troubling for me. I have a plasma and was hoping that burn in was going to be a thing of the past with OLED


Agreed, I don't like that scenario very much. Additionally they still have the issue with the cyan organic sub-pixel aging quicker than the rest, this leads to an in-accurate color display very soon after a professional calibration and who want's that? Some have tried to compensate for this by reducing the cyan sub-pixel's size but this leads back to the longevity issue to overcome again in that scenario. Right now OLED is still in its infancy very few should consider OLED at this point in the game, I'd recommend for everyone to be patient a-little longer it will come it's just gonna take time. lddude:


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## wizziwig

Robert,

Any updates? Did you receive it yet from Samsung? I guess it will take some time for a review since you need to perform the initial aging before proper calibration.

-Mark


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## Robert Zohn

Based on the latest update we're expecting our first allocation of Samsung OLED TVs this Friday.

-Robert


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Based on the latest update we're expecting our first allocation of Samsung OLED TVs this Friday.
> 
> -Robert


Robert you really need to share your thoughts on the OLED set's when they arrive, this is very exciting technology to be sure. :sn:


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## Robert Zohn

Radtech51 said:


> Agreed, I don't like that scenario very much. Additionally they still have the issue with the cyan organic sub-pixel aging quicker than the rest, this leads to an in-accurate color display very soon after a professional calibration and who want's that? Some have tried to compensate for this by reducing the cyan sub-pixel's size but this leads back to the longevity issue to overcome again in that scenario. Right now OLED is still in its infancy very few should consider OLED at this point in the game, I'd recommend for everyone to be patient a-little longer it will come it's just gonna take time. lddude:


From what I am told by the OLED engineers, the blue OLED lamp longevity has been greatly extended. Further, once they stabilize, which is within 200 hours of use, they become stable and then the drop off of light output is very very gradual over about what is expected to be 20,000 to 30,000 hours to 1/2 life. 

1/2 life is still very useable and if the OLED panel is properly calibrated the luminance will be turned down as OLED naturally produces very high peak luminance. So when professionally calibrated the panel will not be driving the OLEDs very hard and therefore the lifespan will be even longer. 

Best of all, OLEDs can produce very low minimum luminance levels, which is likely zero luminance per pixel, yielding an extremely high contrast ratio approaching infinite. 

This is why we are only selling our OLED TVs with a proper break-in and perfect calibration to ensure the best possible OLED TV viewing experience and long life. 

This is early news and I'm going to be testing our OLED TVs by taking meter readings of peak luminance upon receipt and then periodically to chart the variation over time.

-Robert


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> From what I am told by the OLED engineers, the blue OLED lamp longevity has been greatly extended. Further, once they stabilize, which is within 200 hours of use, they become stable and then the drop off of light output is very very gradual over about what is expected to be 20,000 to 30,000 hours to 1/2 life.
> 
> 1/2 life is still very useable and if the OLED panel is properly calibrated the luminance will be turned down as OLED naturally produces very high peak luminance. So when professionally calibrated the panel will not be driving the OLEDs very hard and therefore the lifespan will be even longer.
> 
> Best of all, OLEDs can produce very low minimum luminance levels, which is likely zero luminance per pixel, yielding an extremely high contrast ratio approaching infinite.
> 
> This is why we are only selling our OLED TVs with a proper break-in and perfect calibration to ensure the best possible OLED TV viewing experience and long life.
> 
> This is early news and I'm going to be testing our OLED TVs by taking meter readings of peak luminance upon receipt and then periodically to chart the variation over time.
> 
> -Robert


That's great news I knew they would find a way to overcome the difficulty it was just a matter of time and it looks like things are proceeding very nicely. :T

PS: Robert what is your opinion on the curved OLED screens that both LG and Samsung have released? There's many opinions floating about some say they shouldn't worry about getting curved ones working until they first perfect the flat ones.


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## Robert Zohn

I don't think LG's and Samsung's USA launch of the slightly curved OLED screens is related to production efficiency. In the EU they launched flat OLED TVs so they can definitely build them either way.

I hope I don't stir up any big disputes, but I love the very gentile curve on these OLED screens. It would take much explaining to reduce my feelings on a post. But I explained much of the benefits in this pdf data sheet. 

BTW, we are developing specialized OLED break-in slides and I'll be working with the OLED engineers and product managers to get the formula that best matches OLED aging requirements.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> I don't think LG's and Samsung's USA launch of the slightly curved OLED screens is related to production efficiency. In the EU they launched flat OLED TVs so they can definitely build them either way.
> 
> I hope I don't stir up any big disputes, but I love the very gentile curve on these OLED screens. It would take much explaining to reduce my feelings on a post. But I explained much of the benefits in this pdf data sheet.
> 
> BTW, we are developing specialized OLED break-in slides and I'll be working with the OLED engineers and product managers to get the formula that best matches OLED aging requirements.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> -Robert


I definitely reserve my judgment until seeing on in person, however with that said wouldn't a curve screen make off axis viewing more difficult? One of the benefits of an OLED screen would be it's near perfect off-axis viewing similar to a Plasma in that regard. Even though most people would not watch a program of interest that way off-axis viewing is still a favored feature. lddude:


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## Robert Zohn

The curve is very very minimal and the benefit of sitting between 6' and 10' from the screen is exceptional with the gentile wrap around making the experience more Immersive.

This is a display that needs to be seen to fully appreciate how stunning and gorgeous the image can look with a pure un-crushed ultra-black level. 

Seeing is believing.

-Robert


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## wizziwig

Robert Zohn said:


> This is early news and I'm going to be testing our OLED TVs by taking meter readings of peak luminance upon receipt and then periodically to chart the variation over time.
> -Robert


That is a great idea. There are some similar charts of luminance vs. time available in a very old Kodak OLED research paper. See page 237 here: http://lib.semi.ac.cn:8080/tsh/dzzy/wsqk/SPIE/vol5214/5214-233.pdf . It will be great to see more up to date information. Tracking changes to color temperature would also be useful to see if the blue is decaying any faster than the other colors. It would ease people's apprehension about lifetime if the graphs show a leveling off as the sets age.

-Mark


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## mankite

The Suspense is killing me. Did this unit arrive yet?


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## wizziwig

Robert,

Samsung just cut the price of this TV by 34% in Korea. Any idea if we'll see a similar drop over here?

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2013/08/133_140871.html

Are you still expecting to receive them this week?


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## Robert Zohn

Early afternoon tomorrow we'll know everything and then some....

Stay tuned right back here for my updates tomorrow. Membership has its privileges. 

-Robert


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## mankite

Do you already have tv in your possession?


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## Robert Zohn

Im at Samsung's press event. Two quick items. First my two OLED TVs should arrive tomorrow. Second the new UPP is...... Just under $9k

More to come when I get home.

-Robert


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## Alan Brown

Perhaps you could ask the Samsung engineers how they address the potential objections to the theoretical acoustic interference with a center channel speaker mounted near a hard, convex curved surface. Center channel speakers should be designed to offer a broad acoustical radiation pattern for a multi-seat audience. The center channel also should be mounted as close a possible to the screen so that dialog sounds like it comes from the faces on the screen. Wouldn't a somewhat parabolic reflective surface disturb proper performance of a center channel speaker? This feature on a TV appears to me to be a marketing gimmick without substantial benefit and potential for unintended consequences when used in a multi-seat system. It would be helpful to know if the makers of these curved TVs performed reliable acoustical analysis of this issue and have documentation available of their tests.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## Robert Zohn

Hi Alan, Samsung's OLED TV has stereo audio, so no center channel is built-in.

-Robert


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## Alan Brown

The majority of my large screen HDTV customers have surround systems with center channel speakers and seldom rely on the TV's speakers for home theater sound.


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks Alan, sorry I misunderstood your question. I don't see any issue with a center channel speaker being effected by the TV shape as the center speaker will likely be in line or ahead of the furthest point of the curved screen. 

The curve is very slight.

-Robert


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## lcaillo

I share Alan's concern with even a slight curve in the screen. There will almost certainly be a differential effect on the center and side channel reflections from the screen. This is almost always a problem with curved screens in general ( I had quite a bit of experience with them in the early days of projection television when the first screens were all curved). That was when we only had stereo and a hint of surround sound.


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## Robert Zohn

I don't think any speaker can possibly be forward of the furthest point of the curve. This panel's concave curve is less than 5 degrees. And considering just the width of any center channel speaker it would put the speaker near the edge of the circumference forcing it to protude even further from the outer edge.

In larger panels and particularly projection screens this is always an issue to avoid, but on a 55", non scope screen with the very minimal curve the center channel speaker edge will end up many inches beyond the outer-point of the curve.

I understand the potential for this audio anomaly and share your concern, and I will be testing several surround sound systems with this curved OLED display to see what works best. But I truly don't see this as an issue in this scenario.

-Robert


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## tripplej

Samsung is smart in making the price cut on their OLED TV to help ensure more folks can purchase the units. The high price ($15k) most likely didn't get much traction so hopefully for those who are willing to pay, the lower price ($9K) would re-kindle interest so to speak.

Wonder what LG will do? Their units are now too high relatively speaking. 

I am assuming LG will make cuts as well to be competitive.


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## mankite

I can't speak for everyone Robert but I'm chomping at the bit for some impressions of this panel!!!


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## mankite

Did you receive any of these panels yet?


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## cleveland plasma

lcaillo said:


> I share Alan's concern with even a slight curve in the screen.


I know it will make it hard to wall mount. One would have to build a recessed cabinet to make it look good. "0" in the middle slowly widening to the ends, then covering the area between the wall and the thin screen. I think it would have been a much easier product to sell if it was flat, as they where at CES. 

--LG released there OLED unit as well.


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## Robert Zohn

Sorry I missed some of the activity on this thread. To date we're received 6 Samsung KN55S9 OLED TVs and we delivered all but one that we're holding onto and is on display at our store. We built an OLED demo room that is almost totally absent of light and has the OLED positioned at 6.5" from the two dedicated theater seats.

Our store demo OLED is not calibrated and we have had many visitors who heard about our having this display on several a/v forums. Everyone is very impressed with the picture quality. Joe Whip did not like the curve, but most other visitors have not been bothered by the curve and most actually like the look.

Our OLED demo room the audio is powered by Pioneer's new Elite SC-79 receiver with a high-end 9.2 speaker system. 

The few KN55S9 OLED TVs we installed are mostly on furniture, but we have wall mounted two so far. I've worked with two of our client's designers and we developed a shelf system that is gently curved convex and nicely accents the concave shape of the OLED display. This method of wall mounting looks very cool. Designers and our clients are loving the look.

I've only seen LG's OLED TV at dealer and trade shows. LG tells me my order won't ship for another two weeks. 

We've planned a mini Shootout evaluation that will include Samsung, LG and Pioneer with the KN55S9, 55EA9800 and my personal KRP-500M. All three displayed will be calibrated and on the same 20amp clean circuit with the same a/v distribution for test patterns and video content.

Let the games begin!

-Robert


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## bval

Robert--

Thank you for letting me sit in your showroom at VE this morning. All the screens in the store look great, but the OLED was a real treat to watch. I look forward to seeing the results once my OLED is calibrated. 

Thanks,
Bob


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## Robert Zohn

Hi Bob, Very nice seeing you this morning. I confirmed our next OLED allocation will ship Monday and arrive Tuesday. After our overnight break-in and q/c the panel will be Cal Day, Cal Night and 3D calibrated.

Thanks for the opportunity to earn your business!!

-Robert


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## bval

Robert,

I forgot to mention, I noticed slight blooming on the OLED while I was at the store. I saw it mainly around white text with black background. Can this be adjusted as well?

Thanks,
Bob


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## Robert Zohn

I also see it at the end of movie when the white titles scroll against a black background. I'll ask DeWayne, but I don't think this can be fixed. This is just my guess, but I think it's how our eyes see very bright images against a black background. 

It's less pronounced when we lower the cell brightness. 

-Robert


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## bval

Thank you, Robert. You're probably right, it's not bloom. Anything that bright against such a dark background would tend to glow to some extent,


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## Robert Zohn

I'll get the definitive answer when we are calibrating the panels and let you know.

-Robert


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## bval

Truly excited. Please ask D-Nice if he can share any details of the calibration and whether or not we can post the results.


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## Robert Zohn

Will do.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

Today I had the great pleasure to spend some time with one of the Samsung KN55S9 OLED TVs we calibrated for a new client. The picture quality was as perfect as anything I have ever seen. 

We did not expect to see much advantage as the out of box image was stunning and when we looked at the pre-calibration charts they were so close to spot on we initially thought these panels are so well set-up at the factory that calibration could not make much improvement. Well I'm thrilled to report we were wrong. 

Post calibration the blacks got blacker and the color saturation and accuracy looked real to life. The picture had more natural depth as the gamma is so flat the display could now exploit its ability to show off all of the original detail in the picture.

Our OLED store demo, which has been such a treat for us and our many visitors to experience is scheduled to be calibrated next Wednesday and now I have more great pq expectations to look forward to. 

-Robert


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## bval

Robert, please see PM.


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## bval

Robert, the S9C is stunning. I've only watched cable programs so far, but the PQ is everything I was hoping for. The images are so solid and unlike anything I've seen before. I will post some pix later today.


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