# Yet Another "Cutting the Cord"



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Hello! I searched for, but couldn't find, answers to my questions about saving money by replacing Cable TV service/hardware. And I haven't done much research on the different options either (Roku, Apple TV, etc.).
Please point me to a different thread if it's already been covered...

First, some background:
We don't watch many channels, but like on-demand type movies. Only three rooms need service. I think we live in a strong reception area being near a major metropolitan area (if that matters). We currently pay Comcast about $180/month for bundled TV/internet/landline. They maintain that the landline is required for internet service. I did notice quite a performance increase over my previous ATT service while surfing on my PC. But I was not streaming audio or video content at the time.

Next, a bunch of questions:

Is there a "Guide to Cutting the Cord for Dummies" out there?
Anyone favor one/some "aftermarket" solutions over others? Why? 
Specifically, what are the ups/downs of Roku over Hulu over Apple TV over Netflix?
Do I need the fastest internet available in my region to stream content? If not, is there a downside?
Can I get local channels over an indoor antenna? How much does a good antenna cost?
Where on the roof do you mount an indoor antenna? Hey, just seeing if you're paying attention (lol)!
Is more hardware needed for multiple rooms, or do you just stream to each TV?


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Well, I see this offered in Indianappolis

http://www.xfinity.com/internet-service

It looks like internet only. Here in Tallahassee you have to have at least basic TV service to get internet. Do not have to have a land line. I'd call Comcast again & ask them, or go online to "support." They are at least famous for offering a deal to customers that say they are switching to another provider.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

1: I haven't seen one.
2: My preference is Kodi. I like it because it looks great, and is super flexible too.
3: I don't use Roku...sorry
4: Fast internet is a good idea, but make sure you don't run into caps or go over your limits.
5: Try this website... https://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29
6: I have mounted it to the peak of the roof, or attached it with straps to the chimney. A good rooftop antenna is under $100.
7: In our house we ran the antenna wire to our living room, and connected it to a splitter which feeds 3 SiliconeDust dual tuners. We now can record or view from any of the 6 tuners or our HDDs. The Silicone Dust tuners only require one antenna feed each, and then send the video via cat5 cable to your NAS, and Media Centers in each room. Our media Centers were around $100 each, but you can use Windows Media Center for free. The problem with WMC is that they have stopped supporting it, so we have no idea how long that will be an option. JRiver also is nice for a Media Center. Some people like Plex, but i prefer the Kodi boxes. It is all depending on what you like. You can download Kodi for free, and I believe Plex is either free or free for a trial period.

Hope this helps you...we cut the cable a year or two ago.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Ellisr63 wrote:



> we cut the cable a year or two ago


You did not mention what you do for internet.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Thank you for all these details! Now digesting...


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Tonto said:


> Ellisr63 wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> You did not mention what you do for internet.


We have Wave (used to be Astound) for our internet with a 100 meg download speed, and a 1 TB cap. We stream some movies, but mostly we stream Youtube, and browse the internet with it. All of our Media Players access the internet with it too.


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## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

There are many different philosophies on cutting the cord.

I went with TiVo and an antenna. Yes, there's a monthly fee, but it's a far cry from what I was paying for satellite.

If you get a 'master' TiVo unit for one room, you can then get 'slave' TiVo Mini boxes for the other rooms and not have a monthly fee on the Minis. This setup does, however, require all devices to be connected via ethernet, but it's a great setup.

The TiVo will include your Netflix, Amazon/Prime, Hulu, Vudu, and more accounts when searching for content, which is REALLY nice when you're trying to find something specific. Or, did your local channel break-in to cover weather during the last 10 minutes of your favorite show? That's cool, delete the recording and if it's on Hulu or any other provided streaming service, it will show up immediately and you can finish via stream. Just now realizing Aquarius is a great show? No problem, when you set up your season pass to record it, it will automatically tell you that season 1 is available from Netflix, so you can binge that quick before you continue watching season 2 via the antenna.

The Bolt is 4K. It's fast. It's really a great starting point, depending on what you need, it may be a one-box solution (plus your blu-ray player). It's the closest thing to an off-the-shelf all-in-one I've found if you want to have an antenna & DVR. Outside of TiVo, you're building a home theater PC for this much.

I also have a couple AppleTV boxes, but rarely use them anymore. Only for other things, like Cody or iTunes. The differences between AppleTV & Roku are getting smaller now that Apple opened up the OS for developers. I'm a Mac guy, so it was the no brainer, but if you use Vudu or any of the other Ultraviolet streaming services, the AppleTV can't access them. And vice versa, the iTunes store isn't on any of the other boxes.

As for the antenna, the antenna manufacturers are really doing a pretty good job of giving you good info for selecting an antenna. Check out http://antennaweb.org and tvfool.com/ to get started selecting an antenna. If you plug in your location, it will show you all the towers around you, which you should receive, and what design of antenna to get. Then you can shop around and figure out exactly what model to buy and where you want to mount it. I have a ClearStream 2V and it works great...I'm surrounded by tall, old trees and about 15-30 miles from most of the towers, in two different directions.

There are also a couple DIY antennae that supposedly work fantastically that are made with a couple wire hangers, some screws and a 2x4. If you're attic mounting, perhaps that is something you want to try to save money.


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## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

I would also add that if you haven't already, if at all possible, get an ethernet switch to put behind your rack and hardwire everything you have to the network. Performance blows wireless away, and if you're going to be streaming more content than before, it's worth the trouble.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

thrillcat said:


> I would also add that if you haven't already, if at all possible, get an ethernet switch to put behind your rack and hardwire everything you have to the network. Performance blows wireless away, and if you're going to be streaming more content than before, it's worth the trouble.


That's what we did too, and I will add get one with more ports than you think you will ever need, and you might not run out of ports.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

ellisr63 said:


> 2: My preference is Kodi. I like it because it looks great, and is super flexible too.


The Kodi Edition Raspberry Pi Case does look super fine, as does the GUI. And after skimming the app notes I agree it's a tinkerer's dream!



ellisr63 said:


> 4: Fast internet is a good idea, but make sure you don't run into caps or go over your limits.


Thanks for the caps & limits reminder. I'll be sure to revisit that... Comcast initially had a ridiculously low cap, but I believe has since lifted it to almost unlimited levels.



ellisr63 said:


> 7: In our house we ran the antenna wire to our living room, and connected it to a splitter which feeds 3 SiliconeDust dual tuners. We now can record or view from any of the 6 tuners or our HDDs. The Silicone Dust tuners only require one antenna feed each, and then send the video via cat5 cable to your NAS, and Media Centers in each room. .... JRiver also is nice for a Media Center.


That's good news - I already have and use JRiver for music, so double duty for video is possible; but I don't plan on configuring or using a HTPC. Is that a deal breaker? Please explain exactly what you mean by "Media Center in each room." TIA!



ellisr63 said:


> Some people like Plex, but i prefer the Kodi boxes. It is all depending on what you like.


And therein lies the rub. So many choices are daunting. Please answer me this... Aside from manually switching sources, what are the pros/cons of just using your smart TV to find media?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Lumen said:


> That's good news - I already have and use JRiver for music, so double duty for video is possible; but I don't plan on configuring or using a HTPC. Is that a deal breaker? Please explain exactly what you mean by "Media Center in each room." TIA!


What I meant by a Media Center in each room is we have Kodi boxes in each room we want our media.



Lumen;1472145y said:


> And therein lies the rub. So many choices are daunting. Please answer me this... Aside from manually switching sources, what are the pros/cons of just using your smart TV to find media?


The new SiliconeDust tuners are compatible with new TVs with the RUI feature. Our new Samsung has this too. What I have found out is that if you use the HDHomeRun tuners with the TV it takes longer to access the channels and doesn't offer a guide. If you use a Kodi box you get a full channel guide, and you can record tv shows with it. The Kodi boxes i have run about $100 each, but this allows me to access our NAS for all of our recorded media too (something we can not do with just the TV).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I was looking into cutting the cord last fall but after much research found some of the ideal options you have in the US are not available here in Canada and others got costly in a big hurry. Internet is not cheap here but we do have really good internet infrastructure. My entire city is fiber optic now but because of the low population base in Canada as a whole the cost is much higher.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> I was looking into cutting the cord last fall but after much research found some of the ideal options you have in the US are not available here in Canada and others got costly in a big hurry. Internet is not cheap here but we do have really good internet infrastructure. My entire city is fiber optic now but because of the low population base in Canada as a whole the cost is much higher.


What are the costs like, and performance?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I pay $120 a month for internet, TV (includes most decent HD channels including local channels and PVR) and home phone. Internet is rated at 150 Mbps


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

thrillcat said:


> There are many different philosophies on cutting the cord.
> 
> I went with TiVo and an antenna. Yes, there's a monthly fee, but it's a far cry from what I was paying for satellite.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the detailed explanation, thrillCat. You're not a TiVo salesman in disguise, are you (lol)? Actually, this option sounds mighty attractive (except for price as you mentioned). Hmmm.. maybe an old PC converted for HT use isn't such a bad idea. :scratchhead: I'll need to consider this option more seriously. Oh my, more :reading:


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> I pay $120 a month for internet, TV (includes most decent HD channels including local channels and PVR) and home phone. Internet is rated at 150 Mbps


Is that in Canadian $ :heehee:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Lumen said:


> Is that in Canadian $ :heehee:


LOL yup, so about $95 US


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## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

Lumen said:


> Thank you for the detailed explanation, thrillCat. You're not a TiVo salesman in disguise, are you (lol)? Actually, this option sounds mighty attractive (except for price as you mentioned). Hmmm.. maybe an old PC converted for HT use isn't such a bad idea. :scratchhead: I'll need to consider this option more seriously. Oh my, more :reading:


Haha...

No, I'm not a TiVo salesman, though I was a beta tester before it hit the market, and except for the few years from when they separated from DirecTV and when I cut the cord, I've been an owner ever since.

It's just a very seamless setup. I've no doubt that a PC could do everything and more, but I don't need the hassle of setup and maintenance of a PC. I don't want to have to research everything and make sure drivers don't break things or conflict with other equipment in a custom box. This is hassle-free. My last TiVo, which is still functional, was almost 6 years old when I upgraded to the Bolt. It never died, it never crashed, I was just, well, 6 years old. The Bolt is faster and has more features. 6 years is a pretty good life for a $99 box, even with a $10/mo fee.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

ellisr63 said:


> What I meant by a Media Center in each room is we have Kodi boxes in each room we want our media.
> 
> The new SiliconeDust tuners are compatible with new TVs with the RUI feature. Our new Samsung has this too. What I have found out is that if you use the HDHomeRun tuners with the TV it takes longer to access the channels and doesn't offer a guide. If you use a Kodi box you get a full channel guide, and you can record tv shows with it. The Kodi boxes i have run about $100 each, but this allows me to access our NAS for all of our recorded media too (something we can not do with just the TV).


Expanding on your welcome feedback: 
My website learning spree tells me Kodi is software that runs on different hardware platforms (ARM, Google's Chromebox, Windows x86 PC). Your SiliconeDust - what a cooool name! - HDHomeRun tuner is also one of these. You can use Kodi and associated hardware _almost_ in plug-n-play fashion (i.e. more set up than a TiVo system), but with more control over the GUI/searching experience, correct? 

Now here's where it gets fuzzy for me:
AFAIK, the HDHomeRun tuner is only for OTA streaming. I assume you also subscribe to a service like Netflix, so that must mean your Kodi boxes are not HDHomeRun types, which are listed for $60 direct. Is there a product called "Kodi box"?


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

thrillcat said:


> I've no doubt that a PC could do everything and more, but I don't need the hassle of setup and maintenance of a PC. I don't want to have to research everything and make sure drivers don't break things or conflict with other equipment in a custom box.


My sentiments, too. My hobbies just spread me thin; currently a massive effort to transcribe my vinyl to HDD, and set up a PC for dedicated music playback via NAS. So I'm leaning toward TiVo, but am still weighing options.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Lumen said:


> Expanding on your welcome feedback:
> My website learning spree tells me Kodi is software that runs on different hardware platforms (ARM, Google's Chromebox, Windows x86 PC). Your SiliconeDust - what a cooool name! - HDHomeRun tuner is also one of these. You can use Kodi and associated hardware _almost_ in plug-n-play fashion (i.e. more set up than a TiVo system), but with more control over the GUI/searching experience, correct?
> 
> Now here's where it gets fuzzy for me:
> AFAIK, the HDHomeRun tuner is only for OTA streaming. I assume you also subscribe to a service like Netflix, so that must mean your Kodi boxes are not HDHomeRun types, which are listed for $60 direct. Is there a product called "Kodi box"?


The HDHomerun dual tuner i have is for OTA only. They do have other ones that are for cable tv setups. I don't use netflix... I rent movies or buy them, and then rip the purchased ones to my NAS. We do some Amazon streaming, and my wife does YouTube streaming, but that is about it for us. 

Here are 2 of the boxes I use by preference.

#1: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00QHLSKOE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
#2: http://cuboxtv.com/

#1 This one has wifi which is ok for music but not good for 1080p streaming, and runs nice and cool (also has cat5 hookup)
#2 This one is very small (almost too small), is on 24/7, but runs hot. When I bought this one it was just under $100.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Lumen said:


> Is that in Canadian $ :heehee:


That is not too bad since it is canadian dollars. I pay about $90 a month for 100Mbps download with a 1TB cap (including all taxes, and fees).


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

*For those out there following along, I found this article extremely helpful in explaining everything from programming to antennae to tuners and DVRs.
* And please make any corrections you see fit!



thrillcat said:


> It's [the TiVo Bolt] just a very seamless setup. I've no doubt that a PC could do everything and more, but I don't need the hassle of setup and maintenance of a PC. I don't want to have to research everything and make sure drivers don't break things or conflict with other equipment in a custom box. This is hassle-free.


Coming off the flat part of my learning curve, I like TiVo's turn-key solution more and more; especially when considering the opposing "separates" approach. I want to spend more time watching, and less time babysitting the PC and the network!




ellisr63 said:


> The HDHomerun dual tuner i have is for OTA only. They do have other ones that are for cable tv setups. I don't use netflix... I rent movies or buy them, and then rip the purchased ones to my NAS. We do some Amazon streaming, and my wife does YouTube streaming, but that is about it for us.
> 
> Here are 2 of the boxes I use by preference.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that info - it helped me scoot on up that ol' learning curve. The Amazon ad you referenced for the Matricom G-Box Q2 really plays up its performance. So much so, I almost ran back over to that seemingly grass-is-greener side! Specifics driving my techno-lust are its heavy compu-power, massive storage, and extreme support base - all of which contribute to keeping it relevant in the face of advancing technology and the onslaught of knock-offs. I really want to like this machine, but... I came across this article, which is a bit of a head scratcher (I think the reviewer was negatively biased going in). Then I realized you already alerted me to the the downgraded audio/visual performance for SD/HD content. Its glowing 4K performance doesn't matter to me, as it'll be a while before I own a 4K TV.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Getting closer to pulling the trigger on TiVo, which is more expensive than the Kodi-box solution. How much more expensive? Well, not including common components like an antenna, cables, and streaming services:

$250 (x1) TiVo BOLT​$150 (x2) TiVo MINI​------------​$550 Total Hardware​

<vs>


$100 (x3) Matricom G-Box Q2​------------​$300 Total Hardware​

The TiVo solution also requires a monthly subscription - essentially a channel guide as far as I can tell - for about $15/month. So if you "amortize" the cost over, say, a five year product lifespan, then the equivalent upfront cost would be $900. I'm starting to see why thrillcat said you could build a HTPC instead. Being an HTPC novice I can only guess that you can build one blazing, sharp HTPC for around $1450 ($550 TiVO hardware + $900 5-year subscription). Thoughts on pros/cons other than setup?


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## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

Lumen said:


> $250 (x1) TiVo BOLT​$150 (x2) TiVo MINI​------------​$550 Total Hardware​
> 
> The TiVo solution also requires a monthly subscription - essentially a channel guide as far as I can tell - for about $15/month. So if you "amortize" the cost over, say, a five year product lifespan, then the equivalent upfront cost would be $900. I'm starting to see why thrillcat said you could build a HTPC instead. Being an HTPC novice I can only guess that you can build one blazing, sharp HTPC for around $1450 *($550 TiVO hardware + $900 5-year subscription)*. Thoughts on pros/cons other than setup?


If you go to the TiVO website, you can buy the Bolt with a lifetime service plan up front for $550, saving money and avoiding the monthly fee. I'm pretty sure you can buy that service plan within the first year if you buy the Bolt from another vendor, but I'd confirm that.

But that makes the TiVo $750/850 for the Bolt, and I bought my Mini new on eBay for about $90, so now you're right in the $1K range up front, and no monthly fee.


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## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

Another quick note, for the next 6 hours or so, you can get the 1000GB TiVo Bolt on a Prime Day special for $224.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Any chance you'll be selling yours soon? 0


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

thrillcat said:


> Another quick note, for the next 6 hours or so, you can get the 1000GB TiVo Bolt on a Prime Day special for $224.


That'll be worth looking into. All I've found so far were refurbished units at that price.


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## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

Lumen said:


> Any chance you'll be selling yours soon? 0


Not my Bolt, but I've got a Premiere I'd offload for cheap. It won't run a Mini, though, because it only has 2 tuners.


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