# starting at the start



## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

Hi,
The time has come to start designing a dedicated room. Before I begin looking for feedback on things like seating room shape etc. I would like to show the space that I have and options. 

So first question. Is there a simple and free program I can use to draw up the layout of my space with dimensions? I have 3 possible room sizes I could go with in my basement.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

Absolutly. I am a fan of google sketchup. It has everything you need and will allow 3d drawings. It has a little learning curve but works well.

Tony


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

Perfect. Thank you!


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

I'm posting this because I really want to use this room in the most optimal way possible for a home theater room. About the only decision I've made so far is which wall the screen goes on. You'll see a small screen on the left wall.

The room is pretty deep 35' but only 15' 3" wide. The ceilings are 8' tall. I would like 2 rows of seats, I probably don't have room for 3? With the 8' Ceilings. 

The sofit hangs down 12". Hopefully this is enough information for some suggestions. I'm happy to provide more though. 

In my head I have 3 options here. I would love to hear more though.

Door off the 6 foot entry way and have one huge theater, with pool table by the fireplace. and a small kitchenette in the theater.
Door off the kitchenette and build a back wall at the right spot. This may or may not leave room for the pool table by the fireplace. If not I'm not sure what I would do with that space.
Lastly, build a side wall and a back wall. the side wall would make the room 12' wide and would begin where the sofit is. This would be the smallest of the three options.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

How many seats total? Are you going for front projection? What speakers? Give us a idea of whay you want to achieve.


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

ansat said:


> How many seats total? Are you going for front projection? What speakers? Give us a idea of whay you want to achieve.


As many seats as I can fit without putting any up against a wall.

Definitely front projection. Going for a dedicated home theater room for movies.

I have an SVS STS\SBS 9.1 system that I can use in the room. Will add an amp for extra power. Although it runs fine as is on my EDIT (Onkyo TX-NR3007).

Really trying to focus on room size and layout at this point. This will determine most other things I believe.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

I am just trying to get a feel for the space you are going to need.

Looking at your layout I might suggest putting the screen on the wall between the windows. Currently where you have screen you will be limited in seating due to getting to the front row from the back. You do not want to have seating too close to a side wall. Can you upload the sketch up file and provide a link. You can share the base file from sketchup. 

Also are you planning on using the entire space or doing some construction?


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

It sounds like you are suggesting that I put my screen on the long wall?

Keep in mind that the room is over 15 ft wide with the screen pictured where it is. 

I'm no expert but it seems that would be I'll advised to do what you propose. 

Anyone else want to chime in here?


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

I am just going off some of the problems with my room. 
Here is my room 
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=7522d2a80053b8c69467a0ee4918e2e&prevstart=0

With our current placement there is not much room for you to get around to that back other room. Plus you would have a riser out in space with seating. You could crowd one corner which could work but with a 3 ft walkway (which is kinda crowded for a room that open) you are down to 12 ft. and you would be loading a corner up which is a nightmare for the sound. If you were to center everything and leave 3 ft on each side you are down to having a 9ft wide riser. A comfortable walk way would be around 4 ft. Having that could leave you with only 7 ft of space if you center everything. 

Here is a quick drawing of my proposal.
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=1f3f912f873b098de79d8d7551daa17f&prevstart=0

I illustrated the walkway with a carpet texture. I couldnt find your speakers so I just used axioms for the front three and didnt mess with the rear sets. but this would seat eight comfortably assuming you used a 2ft wide seat for the rear seating.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

And if you are curious you can see how I did my room here
http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=ansat


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

Wow you've got mad sketch up skills. It took me at least 3 hours to make my poorly done layout. 

I see you're point. And great job on you're room by the way. Thanks for sharing that with me. You definitely just earned some cred with me. 

It looks like you are 14' wide. Would it be much different if you had another foot?

I would be happy with 2 rows of three. Centered in the room. 
But I just can't put the screen on the long wall. Its just out of the question accousticly. ( is that a word). 

Already you've helped me realize that one needs a lot of width. What if I need to replace the fridge in the kitchenette. I've got to have a big enough walk way on that side. 

I'll play with sketchup this weekend and get a few more detailed ideas going.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

wheatenterrier said:


> Wow you've got mad sketch up skills. It took me at least 3 hours to make my poorly done layout.
> 
> I see you're point. And great job on you're room by the way. Thanks for sharing that with me. You definitely just earned some cred with me.
> 
> ...


 Accoustically I dont see a lot of issue with not having side walls. I am personally not a fan of corner loaded sound for subs and the gain is not worth the sound that it creates (others will disagree) Not having the side wall will actually assist in keeping reflections down. Sound will decrease 6db every time you double the distance. Your problem will be reflected sound from the rear of the room. I would test placement with your speakers and run a few sweeps and check the decay before making a solid decision on where you need your screen. I am thinking you will have more logistical problems with setting up the speakers for your surrounds then acoustically. Also dont forget that your walkway if going on the short wall will also have a surround speaker against the wall somwhere taking up space. Also how are you going to address the window? 

But definatly try your speakers in different locations in the room. You might be surprised about your options as long as you have the power to create the desired bass you are looking for.

Tony


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

You are making good points. but another issue with long wall. Is that the back seats are up against a wall. I have tried the speakers on that long wall, and the bass response is horrible/underrepresented.

Take a look at this, I would like your thoughts. sorry it's so sloppy. You won't believe how long it took me.
I would do corner bass traps in all errr, three corners. on the back of door and side wall at that junction. And would build a soffit on the other side for symetry. 

Window plugs for the windows, made of 705 or something similar.

An AT screen would be my preference like this. Subwoofer middle front and middle back. 

http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/details?mid=f18c1793e75166e834e85ffebb211c0b


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

This looks pretty good and remarkably simular to my room. A few pointers if you go with this method that I am in the process of redoing. But good job on sketchup.

If at all possible double wall the back wall. Not to keep sound in but to keep sound out.

Try to get the projector in other room and project through good glass or build a hush box.

Try to give enough room to get the fourth trap in. And have the walkway take another 4 inches into consideration for absorbtion panels.

Find a way to close off the kitchenete completly. That fridge is going to get loud when that compressor kicks on.

Isolate the rear sub completly from the riser. The riser will destroy the bass if your not careful and the vibration can be to much at times making the bass seem unnaturally loud compared to the rest.

Also that kitchenette would be a good place for the components and keeping their noise out of the room.


And btw. There is a window in my room as well. If you look at the pics there is a door to the left. Its my door to a window.  . I used automotive tint on the window so you cant see it from the outside

If I get a chance I will download the sketchup tomorrow and get a closer look. 

Sent from my phone.
Tony


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I am currently mobile (at Disney World! :yay and I plan to read through the entire thread when I get back, but I like the suggestion of closing of part of the space to make your room a dedicated HT. I seem to recall reading that the best way to manage room modes is to try to get as close to having room dimensions that are 1.68 times one of the other dimensions. For example, a room with 9' ceilings has two walls at 15' and the other two at 24'.

As stated earlier, you could then locate all your equipment and such in the other room and completely remove all that potential noise from the room. It would also remove the build-up of heat in the room from the equipment.


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanks you two. Putting all the electronics in the kitchenette will totally work. There is a closet under the stairs accessed from the kitchen. Love the idea of keeping the projector outside! I read somewhere that keeping ambient sound low in the theater is very important. 

Ansat I would seal of the kitchen. I'll increase the width of walkway to make room for panels as well. 

Alm since I can put the back wall wherever I want. I could go for those ratios you mentioned to bad I only have 8 ft ceilings. Have fun at Disney. 

For the fun of it I'll post some photos of the as is.


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

some photos of the room as is.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

wheatenterrier said:


> some photos of the room as is.


Looks like a good room to get started with. Got a plan yet fro wiring?


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

ansat said:


> Looks like a good room to get started with. Got a plan yet fro wiring?


Nope, no wiring plan yet. I assume that I'll be making a lot of holes and doing patchwork. Or best case, tearing down to studs for the build.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

Ok, seems clear that you are willing to go the distsnce on this build. Given that I have few more suggestions /recomendations. If the floor is concrete with padding and carpet - think about adding a wood subfloor. Plan for lots of wiring. Run a lot more then what you need. I wish I would of run more 5e in the room for ir blasters and usb extensions. Plan z2 z3 now. Plan sub upgrades now / run for powered and passive. Plan to have wires run for powered fronts, biwire fronts, etc.


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

Why the wood subfloor?


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

wheatenterrier said:


> Why the wood subfloor?


I first heard of this while reading jim smith's get better sound. Tip 60. This got me on the search for what it will do for me. The Consensus is warmer sound, better flooring reflection control and improved bass impact.

What I noticed - 

my floor reflections were not a major problem, my own peice of mind for the protection of the theater room (I used a simular product to dricore), the wife appreciated that the the floor is no longer freezing cold. I did not test with just the commercial carpet on the concrete. But I also did not experience some of the problems with sound others had with basement theaters.


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

As far as "golden ratios" for room dimensions. I don't think any of them will work for me with 8' ceilings. Here are the ones I could find and what my dimensions would be based on them. None of them get to 15' wide. I really want to use all the width.

Do other folks with theaters 12' wide or narrower, feel like they got good results?

H	W	D
Sepmeyer:	1	1.28	1.54
Room	8	10.24	12.32
Louden:	1	1.4	1.9
Room	8	11.2	15.2
Volkmann:	1	1.5	2.5
*Room	8	12	20*
Boner:	1	1.26	1.5
Room	8	10 12
Golden ratios	H	W	D
1 : 1.14 : 1.39	1	1.14	1.39
Room  8	9.12	11.12
1 : 1.6 : 2.33	1	1.6	2.33
Room *8	12.8	18.64*


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wheatenterrier said:


> As far as "golden ratios" for room dimensions. I don't think any of them will work for me with 8' ceilings. Here are the ones I could find and what my dimensions would be based on them. None of them get to 15' wide. I really want to use all the width.
> 
> Do other folks with theaters 12' wide or narrower, feel like they got good results?
> 
> ...


Those were just to give you a ballpark idea for the length of the room you wanted to do - I would personally go with 8x15x24. Then, I would seriously consider doing an AT screen and a baffle wall for the front 3 feet. The ability to hide your front speakers and subs behind the screen is very appealing to me as it makes for a clean screen wall.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

An approximate 16 foot wide room can accommodate 3 home theater recliners side by side and a 32" walk way (isle) on each side. 32" is a standard passage way, federal required in buildings for handicap access (wheel chair width).


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

How is the design coming? Ready to give up on sketchup and start building ?


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

Nope not ready to build yet. . Still have an overwhelming amount of decisions to make. Sorry for the delays, I've been very busy at work. 

The wife and I have been talking about this and we may have to do it in stages. Once we decide on a layout. I'll get a few sketch ups up of recent thoughts and ideas soon.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wheatenterrier said:


> Nope not ready to build yet. . Still have an overwhelming amount of decisions to make. Sorry for the delays, I've been very busy at work.
> 
> The wife and I have been talking about this and *we may have to do it in stages*. Once we decide on a layout. I'll get a few sketch ups up of recent thoughts and ideas soon.


IMO, this is not a bad thing. I am actually pleased my build is entering it's 14th month - not only has it allowed me to split the cost over a longer time frame, it has also allowed me to continue to research and change things I had originally planned to do.


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