# first time user and not a wizard....



## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

HELP!

I've installed the latest software and bought a Creative Sound Blaster X Fi sourround 5.1 external sound card. I'm using my RS Digital SPL and my laptop. I've been able to get through the sound card calibration and check levels on my main speakers. When I check the levels on the subs though I get a level too low. I adjust the volume and nothing I do seems to help. 

Now it's all messed up and I'm getting really frustrated as I can't get anything to work properly.

Thanks


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Has your laptop got a proper soundcard installed that has "line" input not a "mic" input?


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> Has your laptop got a proper soundcard installed that has "line" input not a "mic" input?


Yes, and I'm using the line input. RCA out from SPL then into a Y (RCA to 1/8")


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

You have to begin with a soundcard calibration before ever connecting an SPL meter.

Connect a single cable from right channel line-out to right channel line-in (using appropriate stereo adapters to break out the right and left channels). The left channel is not used.

Run the soundcard calibration routine and lets see the graph.

BTW, set you graph to LOG and not LIN (as you have it).

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> You have to begin with a soundcard calibration before ever connecting an SPL meter.
> 
> Connect a single cable from right channel line-out to right channel line-in (using appropriate stereo adapters to break out the right and left channels). The left channel is not used.
> 
> ...


brucek

I am going to show you the card cal file. How do I set the graph to LOG?


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> You have to begin with a soundcard calibration before ever connecting an SPL meter.
> 
> Connect a single cable from right channel line-out to right channel line-in (using appropriate stereo adapters to break out the right and left channels). The left channel is not used.
> 
> ...


Is this the LOG? Here is the sound card cal...I just re did it as well. I don't have to do this everytime I use REW though. right? I used the cal I did yesterday....we'll start fresh.:bigsmile:


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> How do I set the graph to LOG?


Click the Freq Axis icon button in the top right hand corner of REW.



> Is this the LOG?


hehe, no that's LINear. Don't you remember what LOG paper looked like in math class? 



> I don't have to do this everytime I use REW though. right?


No, and I'm afraid you haven't been successful this time.

Have you read the REW HELP files and the REW Cabling and Connections Basics.

Also note the REW information Index and the Download Page.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> Click the Freq Axis icon button in the top right hand corner of REW.
> 
> 
> hehe, no that's LINear. Don't you remember what LOG paper looked like in math class?
> ...


I have attached the same in a LOG...

I have read everything that you have listed as well as other posts. That's why I'm here. I don't know why I'm struggling so bad but I am. Very frustrating..:wits-end:


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

OK. This is another cal of the sound card that I just did.


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

and another....


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I have attached the same in a LOG


OK, those are all quite bad.

Let's start from scratch. I'm sure we can figure out the problem. 

Can you post a pic of your settings page.....

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> OK, those are all quite bad.
> 
> Let's start from scratch. I'm sure we can figure out the problem.
> 
> ...


the settings page...


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

I'd like to see if the card is actually being recognized by REW.

Can you pull down the Output and Input Device Lists and actually select your card, and then select the line-out speaker and the line-in?

Here's an example of my Envy24 card with all the other correct settings. You can see once I select the cards that nothing is grayed out...









brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

yes, I can see all of that...how are you posting that page in the post?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> yes, I can see all of that...


Can you show me the Settings page with all that set ?......



> how are you posting that page


Place the mouse over the page of interest and select ALT plus PrtScr keyboard keys.
That copies the screen to the clipboard.
Start Windows Paint and Paste the clipboard to the app.
Save as a jpg of the correct size and post.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

try this


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Select Line-in and not Mic-in........

Also select 48Khz sample rate........

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> Select Line-in and not Mic-in........
> 
> Also select 48Khz sample rate........
> 
> brucek


there is not an option for line in...


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

I suppose it must auto detect then.....

OK, all that seems fine then. 

Let's carry on.

Tell me about the connection from line-out to line in that you're using to do the soundcard cal routine.

Do you have 1/8" *stereo* plugs that splits the right and left channels out, and then you connect a single cable from the line-out right to the line-in right?

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> I suppose it must auto detect then.....
> 
> OK, all that seems fine then.
> 
> ...


I'm using a Y 1/8" plug on one end and RCA (L&R) on the other. but I'm only using the R ch wire. It is a loop on the sound card.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Yep, looks correct.

So, you press the Measure button on the Settings page with the sweep output set to -12dB to -6dB FS and then you click Next and see the output VU meter at -12dB, then you adjust the Input Volume thumbwheel to set an RMS level of about the same -12dB to -6dB. Then you click Next a couple times and the Measure is done.

Is this what is happening or not?....

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> Yep, looks correct.
> 
> So, you press the Measure button on the Settings page with the sweep output set to -12dB to -6dB FS and then you click Next and see the output VU meter at -12dB, then you adjust the Input Volume thumbwheel to set an RMS level of about the same -12dB to -6dB. Then you click Next a couple times and the Measure is done.
> 
> ...


pretty much other then my sweep is about 17dB otherwise it will clip. But other then that yes all is matched.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

OK, how about the soundcard application settings.

Can you show me a pic of what the soundcard settings are?

You have to be sure monitor mode is off, and all equalizers and effects are off, and the mode should always be stereo with all soundfields off.

The monitor mode is especially important to be off. (read through this thread) It may have ideas on creative app settings problems.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> OK, how about the soundcard application settings.
> 
> Can you show me a pic of what the soundcard settings are?
> 
> ...


Yep, I have that all correct...I could show you all the screens but there are multiple ones with this soundcard.


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

I might be onto something....What about this?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I could show you all the screens but there are multiple ones with this soundcard


Well, I see no other problems here, so that's all I can suggest. You may have one of the settings wrong, because everything else seems fine....

I would also like to see the Windows Record Mixer and the Playback Mixer picture.

They should look like this:


*Record Mixer*









*Playback Mixer*
Note the line-in muted in playback. That says monitor is off.











brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

This is with the higher sample rate.

Now I get a low level when I press measure on the actual test screen. Meaning, measure, check levels that's when I get it...from the upper left hand corner measure button.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> This is with the higher sample rate.


That looks fine now.. - save it.



> Now I get a low level when I press measure on the actual test screen


You have to go through the Check Levels routine before you press the main measure button.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> That looks fine now.. - save it.
> 
> 
> You have to go through the Check Levels routine before you press the main measure button.
> ...


I got it saved.

OK. I think I got that.. Can I run the SPL into the soundcard 1/8" Y to stereo RCA? Then RCA (stereo) out to my preamp so I can measure the both front speakers and both subs?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Yep, you're good to go.

Don't forget to load the SPL meter cal file from the download page into REW....

Generally, people take the right line-out by itself and Y-split it to the left and right AUX or CD input to the receiver..

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> Don't forget to load the SPL meter cal file from the download page into REW....
> 
> brucek



hmm. never read that in the hundreds of lines I've read...


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Find your type of RS meter on the download Page and save it in your computer and then load it into REW Settings page mic\meter tab cal file slot....


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> Find your type of RS meter on the download Page and save it in your computer and then load it into REW Settings page mic\meter tab cal file slot....


OK. got that downloaded. Now I still get a low level when I try to do the real measure check level. If I go back to the check levels under settings I can't get enough L&R on the meter. I'm out of input volume to make them go higher.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

When you go through the Check Levels routine, do you set the level of your receiver to get 75dbSPL at the listening position?

What do you mean L&R on the meter? You are only connected to the right channel. The left channel is not used.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> When you go through the Check Levels routine, do you set the level of your receiver to get 75dbSPL at the listening position?
> 
> What do you mean L&R on the meter? You are only connected to the right channel. The left channel is not used.
> 
> brucek


Yes, I set the SPL at 75dB at the listening position holding the meter at 45' to the speakers (mic pointed upwards). I thought when I do these measurements I can have both channels going to the preamp so I measure the entire system (i.e. two main speakers as well as two subs). no?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> two main speakers as well as two subs). no?


Yes. Feed the single mono right channel line-out from REW to the left and right AUX or CD input ot your receiver using a Y-Splitter and set the receiver to stereo. Now you have two mains and two subs operating.

I though you were referring to L&R VU input meters in REW...

brucek


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

jtwrace said:


> I thought when I do these measurements I can have both channels going to the preamp so I measure the entire system (i.e. two main speakers as well as two subs). no?


Yes you can ...just use the approch described on post # 30


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> When you go through the Check Levels routine, do you set the level of your receiver to get 75dbSPL at the listening position?
> 
> What do you mean L&R on the meter? You are only connected to the right channel. The left channel is not used.
> 
> brucek


OK. The issue with the low level when adjusting the Right meter was that I had to check a box on the line level tab under volume_advanced. I had to check the boost box. This enabled me to get more volume on the right meter (18dB). How is this graph? this is both fronts mains & speakers.


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

and a waterfall..


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> How is this graph? this is both fronts mains & speakers


Repost them with the following changes.

Set the vertical scale from 45dB-105dB and the horizontal scale from 15Hz-2000Hz. Use the Graph Limits icon button in the top right corner of REW to adjust the scale.
Set the 1/6 octave smoothing on the graph since you are graphing above sub frequencies



> and a waterfall..


Set the vertical scale from 45dB-105dB and the horizontal scale from 15Hz-200Hz (waterfall is not meaningful above ~200hz.) 

Use the Freq Axis button in the top right corner of REW to adjust the waterfall from LIN (as you have it now ) to LOG.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

Sorry about the LOG. err. How about these?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> How about these?


Yeah, looks good. 

One point is that when you finish the Check Levels routine, you should run the Calibrate SPL routine and set it to 75dB. This then matches the REW internal meter to the real RS meter (which you set to 75dB during the Check Levels routine).

You have a peak at around 35Hz that might be reduced by moving your sub a bit. Your response is pretty good otherwise (up to 2KHz). If you want to measure higher you would need a better meter like the Galaxy CM-140...

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> Yeah, looks good.
> 
> One point is that when you finish the Check Levels routine, you should run the Calibrate SPL routine and set it to 75dB. This then matches the REW internal meter to the real RS meter (which you set to 75dB during the Check Levels routine).
> 
> ...


brucek

OK. I was wondering how I fix that... 

I will experiment now but am curious to know, if I shut everything down will all these settings be saved? Please tell me that I don't have to go through this every time. Of course, it should not be this painfull to you though. :bigsmile::bigsmile:


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> if I shut everything down will all these settings be saved?


Nope, except for the soundcard cal that is saved, and the meter cal that is saved.. But it takes about 30 seconds to go through the Check Levels and Calibrate SPL and then Measure... All your pull down entries will be saved on shutdown..

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

OK. great. I was trying to run another test to see if I can get the graph to line up better by doing the SPL cal after the check levels...

When I run the test now it seems that the card pops and starts/stops...it this just my computer struggling?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Yeah, well older PC's can have trouble running REW. If your computer is busy doing something else you can get a pop once in a while. Just rerun if that happens. Also select the lowest number of sweeps (1) and the shortest length of (128K) if there is popping. You can also play with the Settings page buffer size.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

bruce I don't know how to thank you enough other then say thank you. I really appreciate your patience with me. I shut down all other apps and it really helped. Oh, and yes, it really takes 30sec to start up and go.....I re-ran the tests and here they are:


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

I've gone back to remeasure with a different pair of speakers and have a 10dB offset on my graph. I calibrated the SPL Meter, then check levels but still have it. 

What am I not doing?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

If you're using the correct pink noise test signal in Check Levels that represents the bandwidth you're measuring, and you've set the listening position to 75dB, and then ran SPL Calibrate routine to 75dB, then the graph trace will be at ~75dB. It's not important that it isn't an exact level, it's the response you're looking for, not the level.

brucek


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

brucek said:


> If you're using the correct pink noise test signal in Check Levels that represents the bandwidth you're measuring, and you've set the listening position to 75dB, and then ran SPL Calibrate routine to 75dB, then the graph trace will be at ~75dB. It's not important that it isn't an exact level, it's the response you're looking for, not the level.
> 
> brucek


brucek

Thanks you again. Here are my graphs. Thoughts?


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## jtwrace (Apr 8, 2007)

this is probably better with the time adjustment.


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