# New Rackmount HTPC/MediaServer



## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

Hi Guys

I currently have a 4 year old MacMini (Core Duo P7550 @2.26ghz). It runs Windows 7 via bootcamp and has a firewire 2TB drive for TV recordings. I just upgraded to MediaBrowser3 and all my content is on a very full HPMicroserver 136L running unRaid. I have 2 HomeRunHDs (4 tuners).

I want to add a WMC (unless I can find a streamer that streams BD iso and WMC .wtv's) in the master bed, so I figured I'd build something new and move this upstairs. The main AV rack and current HTPC are in basement, so noise is not an issue.

Just ordered one of these cases http://lime-technology.com/d-316m-server-case/ (iStarUSA 3U). I'm planning to run it as a server with FlexRaid and migrate about 4TB from unRaid on the HP microserver. I'd like to use it as my main HTPC too. There will only be two people streaming (max 3 if we have an overnight guest) and I'm not planning any transcoding at this point (if I do in future, I will upgrade to i7)

I don't have any 3D and not interested in MadVR. 

My BD's are all ISO and I hope to use MPC-HC as my external player with MB3

Everything is hardwired via gigabit or 100mbit ethernet

Could use a bit of advice on remaining components

I need to find a microATX LG1150 MB with HDMI and as many SATA ports as possible (have 10 3.5" slots and 2x2.5" hot swap) - any suggestions?

Also need to find a PSU - would mind some hints on this?

Processor wise, I'm thinking of going with an i3, or should I spring for an i5? I can spread the recordings between the two DVR;s as the tuners are on network.

Thinking 8GB RAM - do I need DDR3 and what speed should I get.

Disk-wise, I'm moving disks (WD) from unRAID once I clear data off. I don't really see the benefit of SSD for boot if it's always on. Anyone disagree?

I'm switching to FlexRaid, as I want run crashplan and other easily available Windows progs, as well as not having to worry about hardware I want not having Linux drivers. I do like unRaid and being able to boot from a flash drive, etc. but I think everything will just be a lot easier with FlexRaid, as everything else is all Windows (and iOS). (i'm planning to put the old unRaid server with cheap and unused drives in a detached garage and use as a local backup (via gigabit). (My critical stuff is in cloud with Crashplan, would just like to avoid re-ripping many TB in event of flood/fire/burglary.)

TIA

Mark


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Why are you switching from UnRaid? I am running 3 NUCs plus a Atom UnRaid NAS and I am very happy with it. I have 10TB available on the NAS and I only store my movies, music etc on the NAS. I run a i3 NUC for my HA Server and general media player ie WMC for TV shows. I also have 2 HDHomerundual tuner hooked up to the HA Server. I then run another i3 for a media server running OpenElec/XBMC , and another media server running on a Celeron NUC with OpenElec/XBMC. I am very happy with the whole setup. BTW the HA Server has a 90GB SSD, 1 media server has a 60GB SSD, and the Celeron media server also has a 60GB SSD. Everthing is cat 5 hardwired and runs flawlessly.


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

ellisr63 said:


> Why are you switching from UnRaid? .


A few reasons

I need to build a new server, so decided to review current options
I was hoping to build a single box powerful enough to stream (to 2 users), record up to 4 tv shows and run HTPC. It also means I'm ripping and "streaming" BD ISO's is at disk speed instead of network
I want everything rack mounted
Would prefer to buy one box instead of having to spend another $500 for a HTPC on top of the server
I can alwasy add a GPU card if necessary
I want to use crashplan and other utilities (now and future) that you can't get for unraid
I'm much more familiar with Windows than Linux 
No driver issues. Haven't a clue where unRaid is with haswell support, etc.


I've been reasonably happy with unRaid and it's not set in stone that I'll move, just looking more attractive right now.

Regards

mark


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Makes perfect sense. I went the other way to cut down on our electric bill. My total electricity consumption is now is .1 amp with all 3 NUCs, and the NAS. When I had the HTPC up and running it was 1.1 amp for just the HTPC.


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

ellisr63 said:


> Makes perfect sense. I went the other way to cut down on our electric bill. My total electricity consumption is now is .1 amp with all 3 NUCs, and the NAS. When I had the HTPC up and running it was 1.1 amp for just the HTPC.


Impressive


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

A media streamer that does BD iso, M2.TS and DVD iso is the NETGEAR NTV550. They are discontinued, but sometimes can still be found new for $130 or so. I have several in my house all hard wired network. They do a wonderful job as a streamer and support HD audio via HDMI. I use a Synology NAS for storage. I like them so much that I have 4 spares in storage that I bought on closeout just in case/when the ones in use begin to fail.

This is just another option to a HTPC. I am on a computer most of the day and cannot stand the idea of having to boot into Windows to watch a movie. Just my two cents...


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

hjones4841 said:


> A media streamer that does BD iso, M2.TS and DVD iso is the NETGEAR NTV550. They are discontinued, but sometimes can still be found new for $130 or so. I have several in my house all hard wired network. They do a wonderful job as a streamer and support HD audio via HDMI. I use a Synology NAS for storage. I like them so much that I have 4 spares in storage that I bought on closeout just in case/when the ones in use begin to fail.
> 
> This is just another option to a HTPC. I am on a computer most of the day and cannot stand the idea of having to boot into Windows to watch a movie. Just my two cents...


Thanks HJones

My recordings are .wtv. Will they play those?


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## aiden_is (Nov 3, 2013)

Hello Mark, 
I'm a long time unRAID user myself, and I thought I would address some of the items on your list that I consider... inaccurate.



mark_anderson_us said:


> I was hoping to build a single box powerful enough to stream (to 2 users), record up to 4 tv shows and run HTPC. It also means I'm ripping and "streaming" BD ISO's is at disk speed instead of network


This is totally doable with virtual machines on a server. 
Having said that, typically in server design you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak. If you have issues with your HTPC, then it won't crash your server and kill all connections trying to stream.

If you're streaming BD ISO files at full bandwidth, that will consume around 50 MB/s depending on the feed per file. Since a typical 7200 rpm hard drive is only capable of around 100 MB/s average across the platter, you're issue is based on the physics of hard drive design, not unRAID. You will get marginally better speed out of a true RAID array, but likely only enough to stream 3 files at once. My suggestion would be to compress your BD rips to mkv files. That will reduce your stream size to about 1/3 what it is now.



mark_anderson_us said:


> Would prefer to buy one box instead of having to spend another $500 for a HTPC on top of the server


You can buy a fully 1080p capable HTPC and put XBMC on it for less than $300.



mark_anderson_us said:


> I want to use crashplan and other utilities (now and future) that you can't get for unraid


This is not true. I've been running Crashplan for over a year on my unRAID server. I also run Sickbeard, SABNzbd, etc. Have you looked at the unRAID wiki for supported applications?



mark_anderson_us said:


> I'm much more familiar with Windows than Linux


I think this is true for most users, including myself. But we learn by doing, and Linux (or FreeBSD, or any of the other UNIX flavors) is truly a much better OS than windows for file serving.



mark_anderson_us said:


> No driver issues. Haven't a clue where unRaid is with haswell support, etc.


unRAID uses the latest stable Linux kernels, so architecture drive support is almost always current. Haswell has been reported to work just fine in the forums.

For me, one of the biggest advantages of unRAID has been the ability to use my own hardware. That makes upgrading and maintenance much easier and cheaper than using a proprietary unit. But you do have to get your hands a little bit dirty compared to the boxed stuff. Note that this is not unique to unRAID, but can be said for all the other software NAS platforms out there as well.

Good luck to you on your quest for what fits YOUR wishlist.


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

Thanks for reply aiden



aiden_is said:


> This is totally doable with virtual machines on a server.
> Having said that, typically in server design you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket, so to speak. If you have issues with your HTPC, then it won't crash your server and kill all connections trying to stream.


I have made a note to look into VM's. Keep reading about ESXI (whatever that is). I'm used to running VMware on PC and Fusion on Mac, but none of the server based stuff. Not sure if this runs on top of an OS or bare metal



aiden_is said:


> If you're streaming BD ISO files at full bandwidth, that will consume around 50 MB/s depending on the feed per file. Since a typical 7200 rpm hard drive is only capable of around 100 MB/s average across the platter, you're issue is based on the physics of hard drive design, not unRAID. You will get marginally better speed out of a true RAID array, but likely only enough to stream 3 files at once. My suggestion would be to compress your BD rips to mkv files. That will reduce your stream size to about 1/3 what it is now.


I don't see how you arrive at 50MB/s or how mkv will reduce data rates if I don't compress the video or sound (which I'm not prepared to do). Blu-rays run at about 35Mbs (and that's a very good quality one, many are down at 25Mbps). If it were 50MB/sec, a two hour movie would be 360GB. Just because the ISO is 40GB doesn't mean you're reading all 40GB. The software opens the image and read the tracks you need, which will be exactly the same as what's in the MKV if you didn't compress. All you did when you made the mkv, was get rid of extra content and soundtracks. When I select the theatrical version with TrueHD, that's all I'm reading. All MKV does is reduce disk space, because you're copying only part of the content. In the test I've done, I could save about 10GB/movie, so with 200 movies, that's 2TB, which is $120 drive (so 60 cents/movie at todays prices) I've read Assassin's HTPC reviews that have 3 people streaming 1080P off a previous generation i3.

I don't want to use mkv. It's way too much of a pain selecting correct audio, subs, etc. and then having to painstakingly check the results. I'd prefer to keep all features and sound track options and a guarantee it's same as original. I put in the disk, copy an image with AnyDVD and I'm done. 




aiden_is said:


> You can buy a fully 1080p capable HTPC and put XBMC on it for less than $300.


I've played with XBMC and don't really like it. My wife won't want to learn it either. She like WMC. Also, I've yet to find anyone who successfully stream wtv files and I'm not going to start transcoding stuff. In reality, I could probably get a Wintel solution up for $400. I'd rather spend the extra $100 than deal with another product.



aiden_is said:


> This is not true. I've been running Crashplan for over a year on my unRAID server. I also run Sickbeard, SABNzbd, etc. Have you looked at the unRAID wiki for supported applications?


I've seen CP on unRAID plug-in list. I was on beta 5 forever, so didn't want to install. unRaid dev seems REALLY slow



aiden_is said:


> I think this is true for most users, including myself. But we learn by doing, and Linux (or FreeBSD, or any of the other UNIX flavors) is truly a much better OS than windows for file serving.


I used to know UNIX (mostly IBM's AIX) really well. The problem is I hardly use it and, so when it comes to start having to use it when there are problems, it's a real pain and takes a long time. I use Windows all day every day, so it's more comfortable and quicker for me to fix stuff



aiden_is said:


> For me, one of the biggest advantages of unRAID has been the ability to use my own hardware. That makes upgrading and maintenance much easier and cheaper than using a proprietary unit. But you do have to get your hands a little bit dirty compared to the boxed stuff. Note that this is not unique to unRAID, but can be said for all the other software NAS platforms out there as well.


I'm not planning to buy anything proprietory. I'll be using good old Windows 7 (or 8) with FlexRaid. If I pull off the VM approach, the I'd use WHS for the file serving and streaming


I've wasted hours today with unraid. Keeps telling me cache disk is full. I run move manually and no improvement an hour later. I manually moved files in shell and still it tells me 100% full. I try to delete entire contents, tells me there's a read-only filesystem for some of the files. I tried stopping the array - it sat there saying topping for ages, so I rebooted from shell, now I'm waiting 11 hours for parity check to complete


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## aiden_is (Nov 3, 2013)

mark_anderson_us said:


> Thanks for reply aiden
> I don't see how you arrive at 50MB/s or how mkv will reduce data rates if I don't compress the video or sound (which I'm not prepared to do). Blu-rays run at about 35Mbs (and that's a very good quality one, many are down at 25Mbps). If it were 50MB/sec, a two hour movie would be 360GB. Just because the ISO is 40GB doesn't mean you're reading all 40GB. The software opens the image and read the tracks you need, which will be exactly the same as what's in the MKV if you didn't compress. All you did when you made the mkv, was get rid of extra content and soundtracks. When I select the theatrical version with TrueHD, that's all I'm reading. All MKV does is reduce disk space, because you're copying only part of the content. In the test I've done, I could save about 10GB/movie, so with 200 movies, that's 2TB, which is $120 drive (so 60 cents/movie at todays prices) I've read Assassin's HTPC reviews that have 3 people streaming 1080P off a previous generation i3.
> 
> I don't want to use mkv. It's way too much of a pain selecting correct audio, subs, etc. and then having to painstakingly check the results. I'd prefer to keep all features and sound track options and a guarantee it's same as original. I put in the disk, copy an image with AnyDVD and I'm done.


Yes, I was speaking of compression. Specifically, I use handbrake on unRAID to compress my BD's into 1080p streams with a very low compression level. I also use audio passthrough that keeps the audio intact. I'll give you some numbers. A 30 GB blu-ray ISO (which I start off with) compressed into an MKV container yields about 10 - 15 GB files. But the big difference is in the bandwidth of the file.

CPU has little to do with direct file streaming. It comes into play when you're actually transcoding a source file on the fly as it's being streamed to a client. For pure file streaming, disk speed is king.

And yes, I have seen several large scale movies that have pushed 50MB/s at times. I agree the average is a lower number in the 30s.

I think you'll find little speed improvement for file reads by changing RAID types, but at least you've done some metrics and research on your own. Most people don't even try.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

mark_anderson_us said:


> Thanks HJones
> 
> My recordings are .wtv. Will they play those?


Here is a link to a review that lists the formats compatible with the 550:

http://www.havetheknowhow.com/Hardware-reviews/Netgear-NTV550-Review-page3.html

I don't see .wtv listed, but is it the same as WMV? I am guessing not, so conversion may be required.


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