# HT Speaker Recommendations



## dfraleyl (Oct 14, 2010)

All,

In another thread I was looking to validate a significant HT equipment selection upgrade. In that thead multiple brands were suggested. The budget is less than $1800 for the main L/R speakers. Will be implementing a 5.1 solution. L/R speakers suggested include:

Brick and mortar brands:
-Polk RTI A9s
-RBH MC-6CT
-DefTech Mythos
-Phase Technology DARTs (no idea how much these cost TBQH but they're supposed to kick all kinds of)
-Revel Concerta F12
-Usher (do they have anything in that general price range? I only know their amazing 400 dollar bookshelf and their mind blowing ultra high end stuff)

Internet direct:
-Salk Song Tower QWT
-Aperion 6T
-Axiom M80
-SVS 
-Ascend

Anybody have any thoughts on the speaker list above?

Thanks

Dave


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi Dave, I don't know if this will help or not, but I currently have def tech BP7002's for my mains. However; I recently received a pair of Axiom M3's for review for the site and I can say that based on what I have heard from the M3's, I will be replacing my setup with Axioms next spring. I intend to get M80's for the mains. What will you be using to power the speakers?


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## dfraleyl (Oct 14, 2010)

Hi Dale,

The short list is to use the following in a 5.1 setup:

* Panasonic TC-P65VT25 65-inch 3D 1080p VIERA Plasma HDTV 
* Onkyo TX-NR5008 9.2-Channel Network A/V Receiver
* Polk Audio RTI A9 Floorstanding Speaker 
* Polk Audio CSI A6 Center Channel Speaker
* SV Sound PB12-Plus (or possibly a PB13–Ultra)
* Existing rear surrounds, Boston HS60s (will upgrade later)
* Other speakers later for 7.1 or 9.1 config.

Thanks,

Dave


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

My recommendation goes to the RBHs. Those things are just fine.

At the end of the day though, at least with the B & M speakers, I'd find a local dealer through those companies' websites.

Listening and seeing if the aesthetics fit is best bet. I recommended all those brands to you except the Polks (heh... good copy/paste job) so I think all of those options are a surefire win - after that it's just a matter of seeing what you and your family prefer. It's a bit hard to listem to the internet direct brands but their communities usually have one or two people in your area who own the speakers and are fanatical enough to invite anyone to their home for a listen.

Also, switch the Aperion 6T recommendation for their new flagship, the Aperion Verus Grand. Their 6T mind you is a great speaker, but it's been dropped to their own second best. Here's a review of the 6T though.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

dsr7997 said:


> Hi Dave, I don't know if this will help or not, but I currently have def tech BP7002's for my mains. However; I recently received a pair of Axiom M3's for review for the site and I can say that based on what I have heard from the M3's, I will be replacing my setup with Axioms next spring. I intend to get M80's for the mains. What will you be using to power the speakers?


While axioms are nice speakers, personally i'd avoid the m80s. Funny that I recommended them earlier but my issue with them is their passive crossover design... the impedance just gets too low and most HT amps can't supply the sort of current necessary at high volumes... they'll either sound awful or put the amp into protect mode. I honestly in good mind recommend something that has in the past put a monster amp, the emotiva XPA-2, into protection mode. Maybe that's at high volumes, but we're not exactly talking about a panasonic HTIB receiver here. We're talking about one of the most powerful amps out there...When I brought them up i didn't really think of the complications behind them... my mind was just thinking "step up from m60". 

You'd need an XPA-1 or some amp completely stable under 2 ohm loads to really do the m80s justice IMO. While the m80s don't dip _that_ low, they do dip plenty low (close to a 3 ohm load with some of the lower bass and treble)


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

The Aperion 6Ts are fantastic. At $1800, Aperion's new venue line fits perfectly, and if it tops their 6T, is a great choice.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Axiom make excellent Speakers. Personally, I am a big fan of Revel Speakers. I would definitely recommend Auditioning as many Speakers as possible. Speakers are a very personal decision as far as which sound the best to you.

I would also check out Paradigm, PSB, B&W, SVS, and Thiel just to name a few more. The choices are truly staggering.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I am with Jack Audition audition audition. One mans junk is anothers nirvana


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## dfraleyl (Oct 14, 2010)

All, by any chance does anybody have any direct experience with the Aperion Audio Verus Grand Towers? 

Based on comments in this Forum, the review and in direct conversations with Jeff Fritz at Audioholics leads me to belive they would be a fantastic choice.

Comments???

Dave


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Hi Dave,

Other than one audition at a convention in New York (I think), I don't think anyone's had their ears on them as they haven't been released yet. I live an hour south of Portland, so I'll inquire if they have them setup in their listening room yet.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

dfraleyl said:


> Based on comments in this Forum, the review and in direct conversations with Jeff Fritz at Audioholics leads me to belive they would be a fantastic choice.



That's not a review, it's a first look, as they're almost brand new. No doubt it'll be a fantastic choice though, Aperion knows what they're doing! Maybe you can be the one giving us the low-down... :whistling:


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

Audition, Audition, Audition..... 

however, of what you have listed, I would say the Revels are great.... I have never personally liked Polks, I dont think they are good speakers. For HT, the Mythos are not speakers that I would put on my list. I know Usher and Salk by reputation, but as 2-channel speaker... Although I feel 2-channel musical speakers do very well in HT


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

GranteedEV said:


> While axioms are nice speakers, personally i'd avoid the m80s. Funny that I recommended them earlier but my issue with them is their passive crossover design... the impedance just gets too low and most HT amps can't supply the sort of current necessary at high volumes... they'll either sound awful or put the amp into protect mode. I honestly in good mind recommend something that has in the past put a monster amp, the emotiva XPA-2, into protection mode. Maybe that's at high volumes, but we're not exactly talking about a panasonic HTIB receiver here. We're talking about one of the most powerful amps out there...When I brought them up i didn't really think of the complications behind them... my mind was just thinking "step up from m60".
> 
> You'd need an XPA-1 or some amp completely stable under 2 ohm loads to really do the m80s justice IMO. While the m80s don't dip _that_ low, they do dip plenty low (close to a 3 ohm load with some of the lower bass and treble)


I'm curious as to where you got that information about the M80's. They are rated at 4 Ohms not 2 Ohms as you mentioned so I am a little confused. Can you elaborate a little for me? I don't want to step off and get the wrong thing or better yet, if I can have a good excuse for an external amp......


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

dsr7997 said:


> I'm curious as to where you got that information about the M80's. They are rated at 4 Ohms not 2 Ohms as you mentioned so I am a little confused. Can you elaborate a little for me? I don't want to step off and get the wrong thing or better yet, if I can have a good excuse for an external amp......


I'm not claiming that the sources aren't biased, but a while ago some emotiva/axiom owners on the emotiva boards found that pushing their M80s too far caused an amp shutdown. The reason for this being that unlike some amps, the XPA2 has no current limiting, so it litterally gets so intense that its internal protection kicks in. The M80s are a hungry load and according to Lonnie of Emotiva, can at times present a 2.4 ohm load run full range. While I doubt that's the case, I definitely think the impedance dips on these things are a hassle. It can reduce fidelity and really tax even monster amplifiers, which IMO isn't worth it as there's better speakers out there in the price range anyways which are designed to not have these impedance dips.

Keep in mind that impedance of a speaker is nominal. Well, many 4 ohm speakers have sub-4 ohm dips, just as many 6 ohm speakers can dip to 4 ohms. So paired with a sub, the M80s may in fact be a perfectly fine load for an amplifier. But even axiom's own impedance graph (which certainly isn't a 3rd party measurement) shows dips in the deep bass to get below 4 ohms, as well as some sub-4 ohm stuff in the mid-upper bass - that can definitely make the speaker sound brighter and muddier with insufficient current supply.

This isn't the only 4 ohm speaker guilty of low impedance dips - some very popular ones including the "8-ohm" ever-so-popular B&W 802 have been known for this same thing. 

I can't recommend the M80s because it isn't an easy load, but if someone's got the gear to handle it, they can definitely give it a shot. Even adding a sub as I mentioned earlier may be enough - but I PERSONALLY would feel unsettled at just the idea that speakers may not be living up to their full potential. If I wouldn't buy it for myself at a certain price point, I can't recommend it for someone else.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

WOW, that's great information to have. I am not real up on 4 ohm impedance and the potential issues inherent with them so it is real nice to be able get that kind of input. My BP7002's more than serve the purpose for now, but I am looking to upgrade next year and this is something I definitely need to keep in mind when purchasing my next set. Thanks again for the info, much appreciated. :T


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

dsr7997 said:


> WOW, that's great information to have. I am not real up on 4 ohm impedance and the potential issues inherent with them so it is real nice to be able get that kind of input. My BP7002's more than serve the purpose for now, but I am looking to upgrade next year and this is something I definitely need to keep in mind when purchasing my next set. Thanks again for the info, much appreciated. :T


No doubt it's still a great speaker. Call it bias but if I had 1400 dollars I'd track down a pair of rbh mc-6ct


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

well you could always look at the Anthem MCA 50, it can handle down to 2 ohms, HOWEVER, they need a high abundance of input voltage to power them properly, Typically what is found from their Pre-Pros. 

Its been my experience that the Emo amps were built to play well with AVRs, they have a low input voltage requirement, and most AVRs have lower levels of Voltage output, making them very compatable. That may also explain why the Emo struggles with dips below 4 ohms.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

callas01 said:


> well you could always look at the Anthem MCA 50, it can handle down to 2 ohms, HOWEVER, they need a high abundance of input voltage to power them properly, Typically what is found from their Pre-Pros.
> 
> Its been my experience that the Emo amps were built to play well with AVRs, they have a low input voltage requirement, and most AVRs have lower levels of Voltage output, making them very compatable. That may also explain why the Emo struggles with dips below 4 ohms.


Could you explain what you mean by "need a high abundance of input voltage to power them properly?"

While the EMO does have 3dB greater gain, I have not run across anyone having problems using the Anthem in their systems. Is this something that you have experienced? Most any pre-pro or AVR should be able to easily drive it to full range, shouldn't they?


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

callas01 said:


> Its been my experience that the Emo amps were built to play well with AVRs, they have a low input voltage requirement, and most AVRs have lower levels of Voltage output, making them very compatable. That may also explain why the Emo struggles with dips below 4 ohms.


Not really seeing how a higher gain setting means anything in terms of amplifier output....and the XPA2 does not struggle with dips below 4 ohms - don't mistake the point I was trying to make. It's just that into a 2 ohm load driven at it an M80 is capable of asking for as many as 1500 watts of dynamic output from the amplifier. Normally we hear clipping long and would just turn the volume down, but in this case the dips can cause a request for a huge burst of current - according to Emotiva's Lonnie, this scenario was the result of an ~1500 watt dynamic peak. putting the amp into protect mode - we're talking pro audio amp territory without a fan over a musical program. That's different from the strain normally associated with low impedance dips. It's a very powerful amplifier. - but I prefer not to spend 800 dollars to do justice to a 1500 dollar speaker... that's why I brought the subject up. Not because the M80 simply can't be driven by a quality amp rated to 4 ohms - i've seen people run them off Onkyo receivers and be satisfied, especially paired with subs, but because I wouldn't personally feel fully satisfied at the idea of doing so - and it's my practice to recommend something i'd be comfortable with doing for myself, that's all!


Without getting into noisy fan-cooled pro-amps, there probably isn't a more robust amplifier available for less than 1000, maybe even 2000 dollars than the Emotiva XPA-2.


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## taoggniklat (Mar 30, 2010)

dfraleyl said:


> All,
> 
> In another thread I was looking to validate a significant HT equipment selection upgrade. In that thead multiple brands were suggested. The budget is less than $1800 for the main L/R speakers. Will be implementing a 5.1 solution. L/R speakers suggested include:
> 
> ...


Hello,

Of this list, the Salks and Revels are probably my favorites, followed closely by Usher and Aperion. 

If fit and finish along with amazing sound is your criteria, then the Salks are second to none. They are works of art in the finish department (but custom finished will take you above $2000. If you want to see Jim Salk's work, just go visit their forum on Audiocircle and see the pictures of what he has done for finishes. I am personally saving up my pennies for Salks. They have the sound that I like and prefer. For the money there are very few speakers out there that combine the sound quality and finish.

I know of a couple people that have gone from SongTowers to the Revels...just depends on what you like. I still prefer the Salks.

I was able to see and hear the Aperion Veras Grand towers at RMAF this year and they were quite nice. The finish is beautiful but not the level of the Salks IMO. 

The Ascend Sierra's have quote a following for a bookshelf speaker. Matched with a good sub they are quite nice. I personally prefer a "tower" speaker for my HT system.

I have not personally heard any of the others you listed, but I don't care for Polk sound. I personally would choose Paradigm over the others you have listed. But it really is what you like and hear.

Hope that helps,
Jared


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

lcaillo said:


> Could you explain what you mean by "need a high abundance of input voltage to power them properly?"
> 
> While the EMO does have 3dB greater gain, I have not run across anyone having problems using the Anthem in their systems. Is this something that you have experienced? Most any pre-pro or AVR should be able to easily drive it to full range, shouldn't they?


I have a friend that has a Pioneer elite 05, i believe, and he had the Anthem MCA 50, after a lot of back and forth, he found that the amp was fine, and that the Elite just couldn't get enough juice into it to make it play to its full potential. He later bought the XPA-5 and had a much better experience, he determined it had to do with the voltage output of the Elite not giving the MCA enough juice to push the amp properly.


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> Not really seeing how a higher gain setting means anything in terms of amplifier output....and the XPA2 does not struggle with dips below 4 ohms - don't mistake the point I was trying to make. It's just that into a 2 ohm load driven at it an M80 is capable of asking for as many as 1500 watts of dynamic output from the amplifier. Normally we hear clipping long and would just turn the volume down, but in this case the dips can cause a request for a huge burst of current - according to Emotiva's Lonnie, this scenario was the result of an ~1500 watt dynamic peak. putting the amp into protect mode - we're talking pro audio amp territory without a fan over a musical program. That's different from the strain normally associated with low impedance dips. It's a very powerful amplifier. - but I prefer not to spend 800 dollars to do justice to a 1500 dollar speaker... that's why I brought the subject up. Not because the M80 simply can't be driven by a quality amp rated to 4 ohms - i've seen people run them off Onkyo receivers and be satisfied, especially paired with subs, but because I wouldn't personally feel fully satisfied at the idea of doing so - and it's my practice to recommend something i'd be comfortable with doing for myself, that's all!
> 
> 
> Without getting into noisy fan-cooled pro-amps, there probably isn't a more robust amplifier available for less than 1000, maybe even 2000 dollars than the Emotiva XPA-2.


sorry, I kinda meant that last part as a question.... not as much of a statement. Just based off of my friends findings.... I don't know the Emo amps very well so I'm just grasping at a thought.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

callas01 said:


> sorry, I kinda meant that last part as a question.... not as much of a statement. Just based off of my friends findings.... I don't know the Emo amps very well so I'm just grasping at a thought.


NOt sure why you're apologizing


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## taoggniklat (Mar 30, 2010)

callas01 said:


> Audition, Audition, Audition.....
> 
> however, of what you have listed, I would say the Revels are great.... I have never personally liked Polks, I dont think they are good speakers. For HT, the Mythos are not speakers that I would put on my list. I know Usher and Salk by reputation, but as 2-channel speaker... Although I feel 2-channel musical speakers do very well in HT


I have heard both the Salk SongTowers and HT2TL's in some well designed HT systems and they sound fantastic. But they really shine for music...and multichannel music.


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

I have no doubt they sound fantastic in HT. I think musical speakers have a huge advantage over "HT" speakers like klipsch and JBL or Paradigm. I am using Dynaudios, and while they really shine in Music, I LOVE their HT sound. As opposed to forcing the movie to happen like the Digm Studio 20s or 60s, the Excites allow the movie to happen... and with better detail.


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