# Adding Crown amp to my Denon



## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

Hey guys, I am looking at purchasing a pair of Crown D-75a pro-amps to power my front LCR. My question is...are these amps going to work with my Denon avr-3312? I think that all I need is a signal booster to bring up the voltage of the pre-outs on my Denon and also some XLR to RCA cables to go from the Crown to the Denon, then some type of speaker cable. Is this possible? How do I connect the Crown to my speakers? I have a chance to pick up 2 of these amps for a hundred and fifty bucks. Any advise would be greatly appreciated!


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

The Crown D-75A offers no advantage over the power of your Denon receiver as it offers only 40 wpc or 110 watts bridged. The best deal in the world doesn't mean a thing if it doesn't improve your system.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

^^^^ +1
A case can easily be made that it is not even as good as the Denon.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

Ok wow, I thought that it was much more powerful than that. My question, in the bigger picture, is it possible to use pretty much any of the older Crown, Behringer, Peavey, or QSC amps in my home theater setup connected to my Denon AVR-3312? The reason that I ask this is because I am looking for some older, used, pro-amps with lots of power as my room is fairly large and my Denon is not pumping out the volume like I want it to. Older pro-amps can be found at much cheaper prices than standard ht amps.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Pro amps may require a higher input voltage level that the Denon can supply. Have you considered an Emotiva XPA-5? I am using that amp with my Denon and at $900 it is a really good buy. Sometimes they run a few % off on sales:

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa5

If you have high efficiency speakers (which I assume you do not since you are not getting enough volume) the pro amps may not have as good a signal to noise ratio as HT amps, which means with the volume muted, or between CD tracks for example, there may be residual hum or hiss from your speakers. Also pro amps my have cooling fans that can be heard at your listening position.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The 3312 is a very good AVR and measures very well. 
http://www.hometheater.com/content/denon-avr-3312ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures 
Two channels continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 123 watts, 1% distortion at 143 watts 
Five channels continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 83 watts, 1% distortion at 103 watts 
Seven channels continuously into 8-ohm loads: 0.1% distortion at 79 watts, 1% distortion at 96 watts 
two channels 4 ohms 0.1% 202 watts, 1% distortion at 225 watts 
Going with an amp that is less than 2x the power makes no sense.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

Ok like I said, the Crown amp that I originally mentioned is no longer being considered as I did not realize that it was so low on power. Other amps that I am considering are the Crown XLS-2000 and the Behringer iNuke 1000 as well as the iNuke 3000. 

I could care less about having anise in between tracks on my CD's or with the volume muted. The Emotiva XPA-5 is out of my price range. The Crown and Behringer amps that I mentioned are much much cheaper and have significantly more power. 

Would my Denon AVR-3312 be able to support something like an iNuke 3000 or a EP2000? Would I need a signal booster? If so, which ones are the best to use? (there seem to be a bunch of them on the market).


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

May I ask what speakers you are using ? 
You know that in the real world doubling the power to a speaker usually only results in a 3db increase in volume. The pro amps can do ok in the long run but may not be the best choice in this matter. As others have said, maybe there are other issues.
While not a great option, the Denon does allow for Bi Amping of your front channels with two of the additional included amps onboard if your speakers allow that. That could effectively add some additional wattage to your cottage. Just a thought.


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

hjones4841 was correct because of his use of "may"; but I fear it may scare some off a very viable route.

The voltage difference converting to XLR will result in a -6db loss at the amp input, but otherwise works fine. I have two sets of speakers powered off Yammy pro-amps connected to Integra receivers with RCA pre-outs. 

Most pro-amps are quite quiet. It's something to check for: but IME the fans (which not all have) are either quite quiet or completely off except under high-load (where you won't likely hear them).

SNR numbers are available for most Pro-amps. I've not had a problem with hiss on my own gear and can listen quite loud.

I've personally used Yamaha (which IMO visually blends better with consumer gear than most); but Peavy/Crown have been getting excellent comments on the forums and I'm likely to use a Crown next. 

Raw wattage numbers are over-rated. A doubling of volume (+10db) requires a 10-fold increase in power on a given speaker. So to double from a 100w amp would require moving to a 1000w amp. Issues like the ability to drive odd resistance loads seem to be a larger factor (the Crown I want to try on my 801's goes to 2 Ohm).

As to the suggestion for (I assume passive) bi-amping? It gives you almost nothing for twice the price. In theory you could gain +3db, but in practice you need to remember that the amp will still send the full-range signal (to have the crossover turn half into heat), and that the load presented by a speaker is not even between HF and LF. It's really not worthwhile in a passive-crossover speaker.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Jetjones said:


> Would my Denon AVR-3312 be able to support something like an iNuke 3000 or a EP2000? Would I need a signal booster? If so, which ones are the best to use? (there seem to be a bunch of them on the market).


Probably best just to go ahead and get the amp you want and then get whatever accessories you need to adapt to it. Give it a tryout to see if it meets your requirements and if not go from there to get signal boosters.
I am sure the Denon's preamp output voltage is available somewhere as well as the input voltage requirements for the amps, probably just as easy for you to look up as it is for anyone else to look up for you.


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## Thunderheader (Jan 25, 2009)

Hi,
To the OP, I have my L/R running off a Crown XLS 1500 and my center running off another Crown XLS 1500...

SNR is not a problem in my case and they do have fans which are very quiet; you will only here them if you put your head close and listen when the the room is quiet. You do need a signal booster such as the Art Box Pro per amp.

I quite like how it sounds configured this way, plenty of headroom. Hope this helps.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Why do you need a signal booster when the Crown XLS-1500 has unbalanced RCA jack inputs?

From Crown product specifications: "XLR, 1/4", RCA inputs provide outstanding flexibility" "XLR, ¼", RCA inputs ensure compatibility with any source"


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## Thunderheader (Jan 25, 2009)

> From Crown product specifications: "XLR, 1/4", RCA inputs provide outstanding flexibility" "XLR, ¼", RCA inputs ensure compatibility with any source"


That is what I thought too, but not the case...I tried every configuration and nothing. I shouldn't say nothing as there was sound but very weak, once the signal booster was added voila.

At the time I searched high and low for answers...now I cannot remember where I found them; from what I recall the signal form the Onkyo wasn't strong enough.

I will keep looking for a better explanation.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Sensitivity for all inputs on the Crown XLS Drivecore amps is 1.4 Vrms. Input impedance is 20 KOhms and 10 KOhms for the balanced and unbalanced inputs, respectively. So, it does appear that the RCA inputs are looking for a +4 or +5 dBu level. I stand corrected. Looks like an ART Cleanbox is in order.


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## SI.Theater (Feb 4, 2011)

I use both Crown XTi and QSC PLX2 amps with a Denon AVR-3311CI in my theater. I have also used a Crown XLS and QSC RMX amps (very similar to the Behringer EP amps) in a pro audio environment. Both the XTi and XLS fans _can_ get very loud if you run them hard for an hour or more. All the QSC amps I've used have been much quieter, even under stress. I can't speak for Behringer however. 

I do have an active DI box with a ground lift in between the AVR and the amps. This eliminated the hum and boosted the output from the AVR to reach the amp's full potential.


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