# Best Amplifier for my Polk TSI500



## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

Hello,

I'd like to crank up more sound from my pair of Polk TSI500.
I have them amped with an onkyo Nr709 an also a Polk PSW505 sub. But altough this AVR is giving them 110Wpc, i dont feel they sound as good as they can.

I've read good reviews about the Emotiva XPA-2. But I still dont know if this is my best choice. my main concern is that this amp is rated 300W x 2, and according to specs these polk can go between 20-275W.
Would this extra power may damage the speakers anytime?

For the record, my build is just a stereo system, no center or rear speakers so far.

Thanks for your advise


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## J&D (Apr 11, 2008)

A larger amp will only damage the speakers if you drive them too hard. These speakers are rated at 8ohms nominal and 91dB sensitivity. Your 709 should be driving them fairly easily. Are they not loud enough in your space? That said the XPA-2 is definitely an upgrade from the AVR amplification you are currently using and will provide additional headroom. 

Solid outboard amps like these should also last you many years, I am still using a Citation 22 that I purchased 24 years ago.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

More sound as in louder? Or more sound as in the quality of its output? More and better power can provide both. You can always try the XPA-2 and if it doesn't do it for you send it back for a refund within 30 days. You can use the TX-NR709 as a preamp.


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

I just think that these speakers can output more sound, i really want louder and cleaner sound. when i set the onkyo volume to about 80/100 i do notice some distorsion. I know the real output wattage from this onkyo is about 85w, so if these speaker can handle up to 275w i think i still have plenty of room for more sound, dont I?

My question is, is it safe for the speakers to go with the xpa-2 in a long term listening?

How can i limit the amp output to a level it would be safe?


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## J&D (Apr 11, 2008)

It is safe to use the XPA-2 to power these. You just need to know that every speaker has its limits. You can play them loud but do not expect that even with unlimited power on hand they will ever recreate your local dance club.


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

not trying to be the "bad guy", but I'm failing to see how adding an amp for more "power" will "improve" the sound? more headroom yes.

Maybe somebody can educate me:dontknow:

I think that the OP will be wasting his/her money. I don't think that there is anything the XPA-2 can bring to the table that the 709 can't do. At 0.08 harmonic distortion in 2 channel driven, it's no slouch. I think the OP's problem lies elsewhere.

just saying,

cheers


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

yoda13 said:


> not trying to be the "bad guy", but I'm failing to see how adding an amp for more "power" will "improve" the sound? more headroom yes.
> 
> Maybe somebody can educate me:dontknow:
> 
> ...


I see your point, but i actually think that for power hungry listeners there are amplifiers and speakers that can handle them. i hope the difference between 110wpc and 300wpc make a complete listening experience. 

Btw, What is OP?


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

J&D said:


> It is safe to use the XPA-2 to power these. You just need to know that every speaker has its limits. You can play them loud but do not expect that even with unlimited power on hand they will ever recreate your local dance club.


Is there any indication (audible) once installed that i'm within a safe level zone? This is my major fear, to ruin my speakers because of the excess power


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## J&D (Apr 11, 2008)

Since you say you have pushed the volume to 80% on the 709 it does appear that your tastes lean toward liking things loud. There is no rule of thumb, what I would say is if you begin to hear the speakers sound strained (distortion) again then back off the volume control. You now know that it is the speakers that are straining and not the amplifier.


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

sonixpc said:


> i hope the difference between 110wpc and 300wpc make a complete listening experience.
> 
> Btw, What is OP?


roughly 3db in volume difference, but I stand to be corrected
and
OP is Original Poster


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

An underpowered amp can damage speakers as well. When the amp goes into clipping, its output can approach a square wave, which has multiple harmonics way up in the sound spectrum. That can damage tweeters, and if pushed far enough, the rest of the speaker drivers.

A high power amp is almost always a benefit, unless you also drive it into clipping. One way to protect speakers is to put a fuse in line. Purists will cry foul about adding the small extra resistance, but really it is fine. Start with 1 amp fuses, fast blow. If the fuse blows too quickly, then up it to 1.25, 1.5, or 2 amps.

Ohms law can help choose the fuse. Watts = I²R. where I is the current rating of the fuse and R is the impedance of the speaker. But, to know at what current the fuse will blow you have to know the characteristics of the fuse itself. Each type of fuse has its own melting point above its rated current, which you can find by looking up the fuse curve on the manufacturer's website.

If that is too much trouble, then remember that speakers are usually rated at RMS or continuous power; sometimes peak power will also be used. However, unless you are playing sine waves all the time (boring) music's average power will be much lower than RMS.

Emotiva amps are a great buy. I have 2 XPA-5s and a UPA-1 driving highly efficient Klipsch Heritage speakers. There is a readily evident improvement in sound compared to driving the speakers with my Denon AVR. Many people will argue that there is no difference, but what I hear is not a placebo effect - added clarity in midrange. Plus the system has almost unlimited dynamic range now - well into the damaging ears territory.


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

Currently I have a xpa 5, upa 2, upa 7 and the new flex amp. I enjoy the head room that each gives and I am a huge fan of the people at emotiva. They have taken care of me every time I have needed them. But if you are interested give them a call and talk to nick or vince and they will be honest with you. 
Tony


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

hjones4841 said:


> An underpowered amp can damage speakers as well. When the amp goes into clipping, its output can approach a square wave, which has multiple harmonics way up in the sound spectrum. That can damage tweeters, and if pushed far enough, the rest of the speaker drivers.
> 
> A high power amp is almost always a benefit, unless you also drive it into clipping. One way to protect speakers is to put a fuse in line. Purists will cry foul about adding the small extra resistance, but really it is fine. Start with 1 amp fuses, fast blow. If the fuse blows too quickly, then up it to 1.25, 1.5, or 2 amps.
> 
> ...


Agreed with almost everything you said, but I'm having a hard time seeing the "big difference" between the 709 clipping and the added XPA-2 starting to distort the Polks.

I think that the "full" sound that the OP is looking for is somewhere between the sub's crossover (maybe the mains are set to "large") and possibly Audyssey's setup.

Having said that, if the OP wants an amp, then by all means do it. Amps are cool anyway.:bigsmile:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
While I do like the XPA-2, if comparing to other Power Amplifiers, do realize that Emotiva uses a pretty high amount of gain. This can cause the impression of unlimited power as it comes off so much louder at the same AVR/SSP Volume Level than most Amplifiers and AVR's.
Cheers,
JJ


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> While I do like the XPA-2, if comparing to other Power Amplifiers, do realize that Emotiva uses a pretty high amount of gain. This can cause the impression of unlimited power as it comes off so much louder at the same AVR/SSP Volume Level than most Amplifiers and AVR's.
> Cheers,
> JJ


yes, I thought I read that somewhere also.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

sonixpc said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'd like to crank up more sound from my pair of Polk TSI500.
> I have them amped with an onkyo Nr709 an also a Polk PSW505 sub. But altough this AVR is giving them 110Wpc, i dont feel they sound as good as they can.
> ...


You said it yourself "they (the speaker) dont sound as good as they should" so Im taking a more direct approach....btw you guys are beating the amp issue to death.....
My suggestion, having auditioned this POLK series for my neighbor who was interested and knows I do HT install work is this....replace the tweeters with these....

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1016

this will improve your sound quality very nicely at much less cost than a new amp :T ....


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> While I do like the XPA-2, if comparing to other Power Amplifiers, do realize that Emotiva uses a pretty high amount of gain. This can cause the impression of unlimited power as it comes off so much louder at the same AVR/SSP Volume Level than most Amplifiers and AVR's.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I'm kind of lost here, sorry, may you illustrate me about "high amount of gain" and AVR/SSP?


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

hjones4841 said:


> An underpowered amp can damage speakers as well. When the amp goes into clipping, its output can approach a square wave, which has multiple harmonics way up in the sound spectrum. That can damage tweeters, and if pushed far enough, the rest of the speaker drivers.
> 
> A high power amp is almost always a benefit, unless you also drive it into clipping. One way to protect speakers is to put a fuse in line. Purists will cry foul about adding the small extra resistance, but really it is fine. Start with 1 amp fuses, fast blow. If the fuse blows too quickly, then up it to 1.25, 1.5, or 2 amps.
> 
> Ohms law can help choose the fuse. Watts = I²R. where I is the current rating of the fuse and R is the impedance of the speaker. But, to know at what current the fuse will blow you have to know the characteristics of the fuse itself. Each type of fuse has its own melting point above its rated current, which you can find by looking up the fuse curve on the manufacturer's website.- .


I like this approach, so in this case, R=8ohms, and Watts= 275 ?... Doing the math, i get an I=5.86A... So I should get a fuse of 5A?


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

I know some manufacturers rate speakers with a peak power and continous / long term power handling, so in my case, if polk recommends an amp 20-275w, does it mean these tsi500 have a long term handling of 275w? Or am i missing something?


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

ansat said:


> Currently I have a xpa 5, upa 2, upa 7 and the new flex amp. I enjoy the head room that each gives and I am a huge fan of the people at emotiva. They have taken care of me every time I have needed them. But if you are interested give them a call and talk to nick or vince and they will be honest with you.
> Tony


Thanks for the advise, just curious, what speakers are you driving with this separates?


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

yoda13 said:


> Agreed with almost everything you said, but I'm having a hard time seeing the "big difference" between the 709 clipping and the added XPA-2 starting to distort the Polks.
> 
> I think that the "full" sound that the OP is looking for is somewhere between the sub's crossover (maybe the mains are set to "large") and possibly Audyssey's setup.
> 
> Having said that, if the OP wants an amp, then by all means do it. Amps are cool anyway.:bigsmile:


I set the speakers as small, otherwise subwoofer wont sound, and the crossover set at 80hz. I didnt run the audissey since it is a 2.1 setup


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

I may have access to a pair of jamo s606 or jamo c805, a friend of mine is willing to trade them, do you think these are better than my polk tsi500 to be handled by the xpa-2?.... In this case, I'll leave polks as rear speakers, powered by the onkyo


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

sonixpc said:


> I'm kind of lost here, sorry, may you illustrate me about "high amount of gain" and AVR/SSP?





RTS100x5 said:


> You said it yourself "they (the speaker) dont sound as good as they should" so Im taking a more direct approach....btw you guys are beating the amp issue to death.....
> My suggestion, having auditioned this POLK series for my neighbor who was interested and knows I do HT install work is this....replace the tweeters with these....
> 
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1016
> ...


I honestly think a number of folks are actually agreeing with you about questioning just how much benefit there would be to adding an amplifier.


Just that. The Amplifiers that use a relatively high amount of gain will sound much louder than those that do not at first. Some of this has to do with a relatively high percentage of Emotivas being used with AVR's where the gain will ensure that you will ensure peak voltage from a wide variety of AVR's as not all Preamp Stages are created equal.

My point is this I suppose. I have hooked up an XPA-2 and compared it to both my 2 Channel Amplifiers. Both have roughly twice as large of a Power Transformer and almost 3 times the amount of Filter Capacitance. However, especially with the Aragon, I was honestly shocked at much hotter (louder) it sounded at first blush. That being said, in Professional Reviews of Aragon 8008 Series, there were concerns about how well it would do when being used with some AVR's due to not using much gain and it decidedly being used more often in 2 Channel Separates rigs.

A similar thing is for many years Stereo Receivers (many still do not) and AVR's did not use the 1-100 or -xx to 0db Reference Level used today. In these days when folks would go to audition these, they would be most impressed with the ones that sounded loudest when barely turning the Volume Knob. A corollary to this is when say a majority of available power reserves are present in the first 25% of a Volume Knobs range, something has to give when going to the top of the range.

Just level match the Emotiva compared to any other Power Amplifiers or even the 709. The XPA-2 is far more powerful than the 709 so there is no question it can provide more headroom, but it really comes down to whether this added power is really needed.


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## sonixpc (Jan 26, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> I honestly think a number of folks are actually agreeing with you about questioning just how much benefit there would be to adding an amplifier.
> 
> Just level match the Emotiva compared to any other Power Amplifiers or even the 709. The XPA-2 is far more powerful than the 709 so there is no question it can provide more headroom, but it really comes down to whether this added power is really needed.


First of all, thanks so much for your opinion and explanations. I really tought the idea to add an amplifier will be welcome by all of this forum. To be honest, This only has brought me more questions than answers.

When a separate amp is a must choice?
What kind of speakers or what specifications may tell me and amp is worth it?

When i said at first that i feel my speakers wasnt sounding as loud as they could, it's because when i reach 82 volume (it appears THX REF.) anything up from there i here some distorsion. My analysis was that maybe if the speakers can handle up to 275W, a 110w avr was only giving them at most half the power they handle. I really like things loud but clean, and i have plenty of space for this matter, but i also like to hear sometimes at low volumes and hear all the music spectrum, thats why i didnt choose Amps / speakers for dance halls, i guess they only sound good when lots of power are driving them. What are your thoughts?

Thanks again!


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

The Emotiva XPA-2 will do what you want. If you don't like it send it back within 30 days for a full purchase price refund.


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## ihventura (Oct 31, 2021)

RTS100x5 said:


> You said it yourself "they (the speaker) dont sound as good as they should" so Im taking a more direct approach....btw you guys are beating the amp issue to death.....
> My suggestion, having auditioned this POLK series for my neighbor who was interested and knows I do HT install work is this....replace the tweeters with these....
> 
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-1016
> ...


Hey, can you provide a new link, if you still exist? TTY TY


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