# Speaker quest (listening reviews included)



## Funkmonkey

I am looking for recommendations for some full range front speakers. I have several in mind, just curious to see what you guys come up with. Probably about 50% music & 50% Movies. Addition of a sub is not out of the question. 

I listen to a very wide variety of music: I need a speaker that can render a double bass (stand-up) with depth and clarity, along with all the warmth and vibrance of Miles' trumpet. I want to hear the raw power in voices like Aretha Franklin, and the grittyness of John Lee Hooker. Something that can convey the enveloping atmosphere of bands like Portisehead, and Massive Attack, and the shear assault of the senses of bands like FuManchu and BlackSabbath. In more general terms I want crisp accurate detail in the upper range, smooth full mids, and DEEP, extended, tight bass.

Thanks for your help:nerd:


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## Otto

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

In that price range, I would check out the Vandersteen 3A Signature. You'll have to go used. I picked up a pair on AudiogoN a little more than a year ago, and have been very happy. Some people call them "laid back," and they may not be "in your face" at all times, but they can definitely ROCK. I've put a variety of music through them, from classical to metal, and they never disappoint. Bottom end is stated as 30Hz, and I would suspect I can get close in my room. 

Anyway, my $0.02.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

"DEEP and extended" bass (by my definitions) is extremely rare in full range speakers under $2,000. Maybe something like the Def Tech models with powered subs in them might get you close to the bass you want, but I'm not sure what they run new.

If you could somehow work out a Martin Logan setup, I would not even think twice about it... Martin Logan Ascent i's... $1975 










... but then you need a center and a sub. With the exception of the deep extended bass, you described these speakers very well and I can tell you I've not heard anything better in my lifetime. And I don't just say that because I now own them, I really mean it. My ML setup really does it all and someone needs to knock me clean between the eyes if I ever get rid of my ML speaker setup, other than to replace it with the same after it wears out.


Here's the Def Tech BP7002's for $1299...












Of course those are used.

In the new line you could look into the Paradigm line and probably pick up a very capable front stage for under $2000.

I was impressed with the Cambridge SoundWorks speakers... 










You could get a very nice setup with them for your front stage and have money left over for a nice sub as well.


Another option is the Axiom line... we just picked them up as an affiliate. They are very well respected.











There are sooooo many really good options.


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## jackfish

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Vandersteen 2Ce Signature IIs are $2000/pair new and sound as good as loudspeakers costing twice or thrice the price. Frequency response is 29Hz to 29kHz +/- 3dB, definitely full range for music and pretty good for HT. They have been seen taken on AudiogoN for $1000.

I'd second the Vandersteen 3A Signatures (26Hz to 30kHz +/- 3dB) for $3550 new or as little as $1700 on AudiogoN.

Vandersteens are simply the best sounding loudspeaker for the money in my opinion, period. You owe it to yourself to audition them.

Affordable Home Theater in Riverside, Hi-Q Audio/Video Systems in Thousand Oaks, Brook Berdan in Monrovia, Gluskin's Audio Video in Stockton, Monarch Coast in San Clemente, and Stereo Unlimited in San Diego.


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Sonnie said:


> "DEEP and extended" bass (by my definitions) is extremely rare in full range speakers under $2,000... ...There are sooooo many really good options.


I realize that, which is why I said that the addition of a sub would not be out of the question. I actually plan on adding a center, sub and surrounds to the fronts in the up coming months, but I really want something outstanding for 2 channel listening. Music is first and foremost for the main speakers for me.

thank you for your suggestions, so far. While the electro statics would be great, they are just too big, my wife would kill me if I replace the old towers with anything bigger.

please keep 'em comin'


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



jackfish said:


> Vandersteen 2Ce Signature IIs are $2000/pair new and sound as good as loudspeakers costing twice or thrice the price. Frequency response is 29Hz to 29kHz +/- 3dB, definitely full range for music and pretty good for HT. They have been seen taken on AudiogoN for $1000.
> 
> I'd second the Vandersteen 3A Signatures (26Hz to 30kHz +/- 3dB) for $3550 new or as little as $1700 on AudiogoN.
> 
> Vandersteens are simply the best sounding loudspeaker for the money in my opinion, period. You owe it to yourself to audition them.
> 
> Affordable Home Theater in Riverside, Hi-Q Audio/Video Systems in Thousand Oaks, Brook Berdan in Monrovia, Gluskin's Audio Video in Stockton, Monarch Coast in San Clemente, and Stereo Unlimited in San Diego.


Thanks, I will head out to Thousand Oaks later this week to give the Vandersteens a listen. And see what else they have there...


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

So far:
Axioms are on my not-so-short list, 
along with Paradigm Studio series, 
B&W 683's & CM7's, 
Def-Tech mythos, 
Totem, 
Onix rpcket RS850, 
Revel F-12, 
Monitor Audio Silver RS-6/8, 
and the SVS MTS-01... 

Now vandersteen joins that group. 
Any arguments for or against, and/or further additions to that list are welcome.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I might throw Klipsch in there as well. I know people swear by them. It seems like most either lov'em or hat'em. :dontknow: At least worth an audition if you can work it out.


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## warpdrive

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> So far:
> Axioms are on my not-so-short list,
> along with Paradigm Studio series,
> B&W 683's & CM7's,
> Def-Tech mythos,
> Totem,
> Onix rpcket RS850,
> Revel F-12,
> Monitor Audio Silver RS-6/8,
> and the SVS MTS-01...


That's a decent sized list and it seems to cover all flavors. I think you should be able to find something among those to your liking.


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## Guest

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

You need to audition as many speakers as you can. Speaker preferences are very subjective and you need to find ones you like the for the budget you can afford. Just be prepared to spend more $$$ than you plan as you will find a set of speakers you cannot live without for the extra $$$ you did not want to spend. It never fails....


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## Otto

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I should have also listened to the Triangle and Focal offerings, but the trip was precluded by weather. I've been happy with my Vandersteens, but if I were shopping now, I would definitely add those to the list.


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## MatrixDweller

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

You might be able to get a pair of Klipsch RF83's if you can talk a dealer down. If not then the RF63's are nice also. They both go pretty low for a floor stander without an active sub built in. 

Von Schweikert VR-2's are nice also. They might be a little more than $2K unless you get a good deal or buy used.

Truly though you will get more bass oomph if you use a subwoofer. For movies good bookshelves paired with a sub are best IMHO.


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## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

You've received excellent advice regarding the Vandersteens. I have to agree (I owned a beloved pair of 2ci's) that there is no other speaker that will give you as much good to excellent sound for the money that I have heard. They are simply THAT good! Best all around bang for the buck in speakerdom...my 2 cents worth.
Cheers,
Konky.


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## salvasol

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

There is a couple of Martin Logan Montage at Magnolia (Best Buy) in Montclair for $399.00 ea ... It think they were the floor model :yes::yes::yes:


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

okay, so tomorrow I go to check out the Paradigms, B&W's, DefTech's and Monitor's. That is if Ahead Stereo has all the the models I am interested in. I know they are dealers of all 4 brands, and maybe they will have something else on the list. This will be the second listen on the Paradigm studio 60's, 1st on the 100's if they have them; B&W 683's second listen, CM7's will be the first. I have heard the Mythos ST at Best Buy with all the rest of the noise around so couldn't get a real feel for them, so they get a second shot. Hopefully there won't be any screaming kids in a higher end stereo shop...

I can say that after first listen between the Paradigm studio 60's and the B&W 683's it was pretty much a draw. The Studio 60's seemed to favor the mids a bit more (better vocals and more of a full sound), and the 683's had slightly more punch in the bass and seemed to reach a touch higher (more separation in the sound). Between the two my preference would go to the Paradigm Studio 60's, but only by a very thin margin... So, they both deserve a second listen, with different music.

The Vandersteens will have to wait until round three


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## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Do yourself a favor and no matter what you hear...don't forget round 3 and listen to the Vandersteens. You'll be doing yourself (not to mention your ears) a great favor! :T
Cheers,
Konky.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I agree with the above posters, your list looks good I really like the sound of the B&W 683's I dont own a pair but have listened to them. The Monitor Audio Silver RS-6/8 are nice also bit lack some of the low end that your looking for.


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## bmplockmonster

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

i know you've got a lot of speakers on your list but i'll chime in anyway w/ 1/3of a cent for the klipsh rf-63's maybe for someone else trying to formulate an oppinion.good luck and have fun.


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## JCD

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

<Enter the heretic>

If you're willing to go with a sub, I'd think about going with a pair of Paradigm Studio 20's and the biggest baddest sub from SVS your budget can afford. I think a bookshelf speaker is easier to setup and get "right" than a typical floorstander. The other thing is that bookshelf speakers can go pretty low. For example, the 20's can go down to 54hz vs the 46hz the Studio 60's you're looking at... which wouldn't matter all that much if you get a quality sub like SVS thrown in to handle the <80hz duties.

Just my opinion..

JCD


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## jackfish

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



> Music is first and foremost for the main speakers for me.


Vandersteens. Down the road just adding a center and surrounds you may find the bass sufficient even for your movies (set fronts to large) without a sub.


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## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

If you're having trouble locating Vandersteens, you may want to try the DALI Ikon line...excellent, or the Revel "Performa" series...they will give you the absolute max bass for the money and sound excellent all around. I recommend all these speakers because I have heard all of these speakers and lots of others. What I'm recommending (along with good recommendations from others) is the best of the best IMHO in the price range you have designated. :T
Good luck,
Konky.


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Round two complete. 2nd listen to Paradigm studio 60's proved to still be my preference over the B&W 683's. However I found that I liked the B&W CM-7's the best of the three. The CM-7's had much more of an air to them very slight push to the upper-mids, and more laid back than the Studio 60's. The B&W CM-7's excelled with Jazz. They just had a more natural sound to them. They also had a very nice sound-stage, much wider than the 683's, and more open than the Studio 60's. The guys at Ahead Stereo were great, Aaron moved the speakers around so I could compare the ones I was interested in in an A/B/C format. Good people there, and a nice selection of electronics as well. Unfortunately they did not have the Monitor RS 6 or RS 8 in store, so I will have to go elsewhere to listen to them.

So as it stands now I still have a lot of speakers to listen to but the B&W CM-7's are the ones to beat.


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## warpdrive

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

It sounds like fun funkmonkey. There are some people that read up on Internet forums, read reviews, look at charts, ask for advice, read threads, and then order their speaker sight unseen. I can't understand that. Half the fun of audio is touching, seeing, hearing. Sometimes you find some jewels you never heard of walking into a store. I used to think all B&W's were overrated until the dealer said "listen to these little CM1". Then I changed my mind completely. I also listened to some "cost no object" gear as a reference and I found myself lost in the music with some systems (which is what it's all about)


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



warpdrive said:


> I found myself lost in the music with some systems (which is what it's all about)


Amen, Brother warpdrive
I am having fun, and I am fortunate to not have to work for a couple of weeks, so I between all the Honey-Do's I can get out and listen... :bigsmile:


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## warpdrive

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I'm interested in the outcome of what you find in your future auditions. Having lots of time really helps.....you aren't pressured to make a decision quickly. I know what the CM-7 sounds like and can attest they are amazing for the reasons you stated. They aren't perfect, but when I first heard them, I found myself thinking how smooth and natural they were...I could listen to these all day.


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## mazersteven

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Salk Sound 
SongTower QWT
http://www.salksound.com/SongTower.shtml

Revel Concerta F12 
http://www.revelspeakers.com/products/product.asp?product=19

Focal JM Labs Chorus 816 V
http://www.focal.tm.fr/catalogue-fr...?langue=EN&idArbo=6&idProduit=33&idDivision=1

Usher Audio V-604
http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/loudspeakers/v-series/v-604

Strata Mini
http://www.av123.com/products_product.php?section=speakers&product=78.1


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

ROUND #3:

Man, I hate LA traffic!!! I drove out to Santa Monica today, about 15 miles the way the crow flies, it took me about 40 min to get there, not too bad for LA, the ride home took me about 1 hour 45 minutes!!!!!!!! Then when I get there the place is remodeling and is open, but has absolutely nothing hooked up to demo. They were polite and all, and gave me a brochure, and asked me to comeback next week... yeah, right. ...well, okay maybe. I had planed to stop in there and then hit a different store that was only a few blocks away so, at least I got to hear some speakers on my trip. Sorry to vent a bit there, but I just wanted to convey a point, but I will get to that later...

Today I listened to Monitor Audio Silver series RS6, and RS8's, Vienna Acoustics Bach's, and Martin Logan Purity & Source
I started with the Monitor RS6, and was digging their sense of air, crisp highs and mids when I asked the guy to switch to the RS8's... Whump, what was that? There's the bottom end. Much, much deeper with the RS8's, much more full sound. All the crisp detail of the RS6, with a woofer added. (Makes sense, because that is pretty much the difference between the two. If anyone is thinking about getting the RS6, make sure you have or get a sub too, because they just do not have much of a bottom end.) I really liked the RS8's.

Since they were standing right next to the Monitors I had the salesman flip on the Vienna Bach's. Not too bad, but to my ears they sounded a bit congested in the upper range, not as musical, slightly dead in comparison to the lively RS8's. Okay, maybe should have heard them first, but as the Vienna's are a decent competitor to the Monitor's (at least by sticker price) I prefer the RS8.

Now, for my surprise today I gave the Martin Logan Purity's a listen [about $1G more than my budget(sticker) they were in the same room as the RS8's, and the salesman stated that the only difference between them and the "Source," which are in my price range (barely) was the inclusion of an internal amp)] You weren't kidding Sonnie, they sound awesome, the Purity's have everything going for them, they are a hybrid: electro static to handle mids and highs with a powered woofer to go low. I wound up A/B-ing these with the Monitor RS8's and this is what I found:

Red Snapper(electronic/jazz lots of upright bass and strong beats)... the ML-Purity's seemed a bit flat in the mids, both speakers handled this music well, good atmosphere, full sound from both.

Grant Green (Jazz)- The RS8's gave the guitar a nice tone, or I should say reproduced the beautiful tone of Grant Greens guitar very well, piano sounds were very natural, and very nice decay on cymbals, overall an even balanced sound. The Martin Logans sounded slightly more full in the bass, and crisp in the high end, along with delivering comparable body of sound.

Leon Parker (drum/rhythm based jazz)- RS8's had a nice punch in the low end with the drums, but were not as full sounding as the ML's which provided a crisp clear upper range and a very full, well balanced sound.

Fu Manchu (Hard rock/heavy metal)- ((Fu Manchu eliminated the B&W 683's from my consideration, they couldn't handle that kind of full-on assault )) Both the RS8 and the ML Purity did well with the FU, for all the guitar growl that the RS8's put out the Puritys growled even better. Both did really well with rock. 

I liked the sound of both speakers, but i have to give the edge to the Martin Logan Purity. I have to take into consideration the volume each speaker played at, the RS8's were considerably lower volume without turning the knob, I can only assume that is because of the fact that the ML's had a powered woofer, and maybe something to do with electrostatic tech... 

So, the point I wanted to make earlier was that it was worth the ±2.5 hours in the car dealing with traffic to listen to these speakers today. The Martin Logans sounded great, they are on to something with their hybrid technology, I now have to listen to the "Source" model (which runs about $2000/pair) and see how much of a difference the powered woofer makes, hopefully I can find them closer to home. I should add that the store I wound up in today had the Source speakers hooked up on their main floor hooked up to some "worse than MP3" player (according to the salesman), so no chance for a decent listen for me. As for the Monitor RS8's, it should speak miles that they could stand up to a speaker that costs literaly twice as much (Purity≈$3000, RS-8≈$1500)

Good listen today, no closer to a decision...
cheers:T


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## MrPorterhouse

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> Today I listened to Monitor Audio Silver series RS6, and RS8's, Vienna Acoustics Bach's, and Martin Logan Purity & Source
> 
> Since they were standing right next to the Monitors I had the salesman flip on the Vienna Bach's. Not too bad, but to my ears they sounded a bit congested in the upper range, not as musical, slightly dead in comparison to the lively RS8's. Okay, maybe should have heard them first, but as the Vienna's are a decent competitor to the Monitor's (at least by sticker price) I prefer the RS8.
> cheers:T


When I listened to the Vienna Acoustic Bachs, they were pretty good, but when compared to the Vienna Acoustic Mozarts, the Bachs sounded a little dull. I think the Bachs run $2000/pr and the Mozarts $2700/pr. For the price diference, there really isn't much comparison, as the Mozarts are a much better experience, IMHO.

I also found the B&W 683 to be not-so-good, especially when compared to others side by side. I liked the Paradigm Monitor 7 better in direct comparison. I also got a chance to listen the B&W 804, which is in another league to the 683. I prefered the 804 to the monitor 7, but honestly, I prefered the Paradigm Studio 40 set up to all of those. There was something about that forward, clean sound on that day that just worked well. 

You know, audio is a crazy thing because I find myself liking different sounds on different days. I don't have the kind of money to support that quirk. Forward, laid-back. It is true that hearing and any sensory perception changes with the amount of sleep you get, stress, nutrition, medication, mood, and so on. I would add that whenever you make a decision, do it after multiple vistis to listen because you might be under different states of perception, and you'll want to validate you experience. Since I only listened to the 683's that one time, I want to go back and confirm my original perception, or deny it.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

From what I have read in various places, the Purity and Source ML's are good, but not quite on par with the larger ML's. My Ascent i's are considerably larger (wider and taller). Many ML owners say the Ascent i's are their favorite outside of the Summits, which are way out of my price range. Instead of spending $1500 to $2000 on new ML's, I would not even think twice about going to Audiogon and picking up a used pair of Ascent i's. I see them there consistently for less than $2000. If there is any possible way to hear the difference between the Ascent i's and Purity/Source models, do it. I believe you will be impressed with the difference based on what I've read. 

I've seen some really good deals on Vandersteens at Audiogon as well. All these guys talking about them the way they are, I may end up having to try out a pair in my great room.


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Sonnie said:


> My Ascent i's are considerably larger (wider and taller). Many ML owners say the Ascent i's are their favorite ...


Yeah, I really can't go much bigger than the ML-Source/Purity. I really do not have the space in this apartment. Maybe someday when I actually find a house that I can afford, that is not in the ghetto. (who am I kidding, I can't even afford a house in the ghetto :blink 

I am going to seek out the Vandesteens this week, along with some Dali's and hopefully a listen to some Totems...


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## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Quote: "I am going to seek out the Vandesteens this week, along with some Dali's and hopefully a listen to some Totems..."

Good...do that and let us all know what you think...also take a look at my new thread on TAS short list!
Cheers,
Konky.


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Round 4:

Vandersteen 1C, and 2Ce sigII.

Both speakers had exceptional clarity, with their crisp, clear high end. Very clean sound. Piano sounds were brilliant on both models. They really seemed to excel on Jazz. The 1C had a laid back presentation on horns, and I felt (esp. with hard rock music) that they were a bit lean in the midrange. The 2Ce sigII's however provided a full even sound, with maybe an hint of upper mid push. I really liked the sound of both sets of speakers. The 2Ce's were substantially bigger than their 1C brothers but both had a similar form factor, and I am afraid for me that is not a strong point. Compared to many other speakers they are not very pretty. Not a problem if you have a dedicated home theater space want the speakers to disappear in the darkness. I have to consider the wife acceptance factor, and the fact that we have a cat that would most likely see the Vandersteens as a new scratching post for her, let alone the cat hair getting stuck to the fabric covers. It is something that I had not even considered before yesterday, but it is a very real consideration I must make. So even though I think the Vandersteen 2Ce SigII's sounded great (definitely a step up from the 1C) they are out.

Totem Hawk

Very impressive sound, very sexy cabinet. They do exceed my price range slightly but may be worth it. They deliver a much bigger sound than their size would imply. The highs were very crisp, very clear, a bit more clear than the Vandesteens. At first I found the Totems to be ever so slightly bass shy, but was later forced to change that opinion and chalk it up to the source material and their faithful reproduction of the intended mix. I played some Erykah Badu (great music for speaker auditions by the way: very deep bass, great full range female vocals, and tight production) and the Totems came alive. The Hawks went startlingly deep, and Erykah's voice was warm, breathy and inviting, awesome. I also played some Fu Manchu, and the Hawks LOVE rock. So far the Hawk's performed the best out of all the the speakers I have listened to with Rock music. Despite being a 2 way speaker they had a full midrange. The highs, mids and lows were all present and accounted for. Not just that but they were all crisp and tight, nothing sloppy out of these Totems. 

Overall impression of the Totem Hawk was that they are a very musical speaker, across the board they really want to be listened to. I am no expert, and I do not have golden ears, but I really liked the sound of the Totems, placing them firmly as the front runners in my quest. The shop owner and salesman were both Vandersteen owners and I know that the salesman I was working with was as surprised as I was by the performance of the Totems.

I really wanted to hear the Dali Ikons on this trip, which they had. But I ran out of time, I had to get on the road to beat traffic and had I stayed it would have been a rushed listen. I may have to take a second trip to compare Dali with Totem:bigsmile:.


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Salk Sound 
SongTower QWT
http://www.salksound.com/SongTower.shtml

has anybody heard these? I have been browsing their web site, and really like their approach. They also seem to produce some really nice looking speakers. Being an ID company I have no opportunity to audition them myself. Have you heard them Mazer, or just helping with options?


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## Josuah

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I had the same experience as you listening first to the Monitor Audio Silver S6's and then S8's. That's why I chose the S8's over the S6's; there wasn't as much difference up to the S10's in my opinion. I would say, however, that the Strata Mini's are better than the Monitor Audio Silver series speakers.

I'd also suggest the Salk Sound and Von Schweikert speakers. But they will be harder to audition and you'll probably have to find a local customer.


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## Guest

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I just purchased a pair of the DS-456R (the quad 5" on the website homepage) from C & C Home Audio (www.cccustomhomeaudio.com). I emailed them and ended up getting a call from the owner who informed me they were 3 weeks out from actually launching there products for sale. After asking him why, he stated it was based on the website and the photographers not getting things done to his specs which made me follow up with "do you have any products to sell?". He asked which product I was interested in and I told him but then he followed with what color would I like? What color is the trim in my home and the color of the walls? I answered and he said give me two days. Two days later he calls me and says they are ready if I am still interested and I told him yes but wanted to know how to pay. He sent them to me for free including the shipping! He put a letter in the box that read how he appreciated my interest and buisness and for me to enjoy my speakers for 30 days and once the time was up to send a check or the product back. Well I sent him a check 3 days after getting these beautiful works of art in my living room and I couldn't be happier. They sound amazing and they look like nothing I have ever seen before. Now the price.........lets just say I paid under $2000 for the pair and I dare another company with this kind of craftsmanship to compare there apples to these.
So if your shopping around I would give these guys a look.


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## jackfish

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

If you are going on recommendations rather than an audition on some of these other loudspeakers, then I definitely can recommend the Human 88-41 for $2,200/pair. Tried and true technology, stunning sound for the price, and hand built quality and beauty.


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Josuah said:


> I had the same experience as you listening first to the Monitor Audio Silver S6's and then S8's. That's why I chose the S8's over the S6's; there wasn't as much difference up to the S10's in my opinion. I would say, however, that the Strata Mini's are better than the Monitor Audio Silver series speakers.
> 
> I'd also suggest the Salk Sound and Von Schweikert speakers. But they will be harder to audition and you'll probably have to find a local customer.


Yeah, I kind of had a laugh when I switched to the RS-8's. I didn't even bother to go back to the RS6 for a second listen. Have you buy chance heard any of the Gold line? I want to eventually give them a listen too, but not sure where they price at. 

I've been digging deeper into research on the Salks and they sound like they might be quite good. I really wonder how they would compare with the Totem Hawks. They both use a similar size mid-bass driver to similar effect from the looks of it. Von Schweikert I hadn't heard of until I looked into the Salks. Seems like they show up in the same threads, but I haven't searched for a website from them yet. And Strata mini's are a new one to me too.

So, how do you like your Monitor RS8's? Have you had them a while? much break-in time?


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Von Schweikert speakers sound like they might be great, but they are a bit over my budget. I checked their price list and it looks like they discontinued everything under $5000. Maybe they are coming out with newer models or something. The idea of a rear firing tweeter is an interesting one for sure, I can imagine it increases the soundstage quite a bit.

here's a link to their site for those who are interested:
http://www.vonschweikert.com/


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



DS-21 said:


> IMO, the best speaker VSR did is the old VR-4.5 with the Audax carbon fiber mid and twin Eton woofers. If you can find those used in your price-range, I'd definitely look to audition them.


Used is the only way I might be able to afford those guys, for sure... I read a good review of the VR2 here: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_1/von-schweikert-vr2-speakers-1-2004.html
wonder why they stopped making them...



Eric Schultz said:


> I just purchased a pair of the DS-456R (the quad 5" on the website homepage) from C & C Home Audio... ...So if your shopping around I would give these guys a look.


Thanks for the tip, Eric. That company actually posted in a thread I had going somewhere else. While I think that they are interesting and may be a really good sounding speaker, I am not interested in wall mount right now. I am glad to hear that you are enjoying them, though. Cheers


----------



## Josuah

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> Have you buy chance heard any of the Gold line? I want to eventually give them a listen too, but not sure where they price at.


They're more expensive, and a worthwhile improvement in my opinion. However they were simply out of my budget at the time, and not sure they were worth the price increase back then. The price differential these days is smaller, I think.



Funkmonkey said:


> So, how do you like your Monitor RS8's? Have you had them a while? much break-in time?


I've since gotten rid of them and am using Onix Reference 3 speakers for my primary mains. Much much better but also more expensive. They'd be at the top of your budget used; as it happens someone in SoCal has a pair for sale only until Sunday.

I'm not a believer of break-in time myself.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Josuah said:


> as it happens someone in SoCal has a pair for sale only until Sunday.


Too quick for me, I just payed rent, and I am not in a hurry, thanks though.


----------



## Ayreonaut

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> I really wanted to hear the Dali Ikons on this trip, which they had. But I ran out of time, I had to get on the road to beat traffic and had I stayed it would have been a rushed listen. I may have to take a second trip to compare Dali with Totem:bigsmile:.


Oh yes, please do go back. I'm very interested to hear your opinion of how they compare.

And I second the suggestion to hear the Revel Concertas. They are devastatingly dynamic with good amplification.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Yeah, I really want to hear the Revel Concerta F-12's. They are proving to be the most elusive on my list. There a a couple of dealers not too far away but they are "appointment only," and custom install type places. Right now I am unable to keep an appointment that would require most of the day (drive, listen, drive) during business hours. The Dali's, I think, I can audition on Saturdays so they shouldn't be a problem. Just a wild guess, but do you like the Ikon series, Naut?


----------



## jackfish

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I found that there is a marked difference between the Dali Ikon 7 and the 6. The 7 is definitely worth the $500 extra in price. One can find the 7s at online discounters for under $1500/pair. Of course I like the Vandersteen 2Ce Signature IIs better than either, but the Dali Ikons are very good sounding loudspeakers. Have fun listening to them.


----------



## Ayreonaut

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> Just a wild guess, but do you like the Ikon series, Naut?


How'd you know? :scratchhead: 

I haven't heard all of the speakers on your audition list, so I am curious about how some of the ones that aren't sold around here compare to what I fell in love with.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

*Round 5:*

Okay, I finally got a chance to get out for another listen. I went back to the same place as last time to specifically hear the Dali Icon 6, and whatever else they had in my price range, and to give the Hawks a second listen... I should add that last time everything was driven by some higher end NAD electronics at 150wpc, this time lower end, solid state NAD in a different room and a true 50wpc, some of the same music as before and some new... (remember these are just MY impressions and opinions)

I will run 'em down in the order I listened to them.

*Usher V-602* (msrp≈$1000)
Started with a little jazz from Grant Green, and noticed right away that the cymbals had a very nice decay, acoustic bass was nice and full, but drum rim shots were sounding a little on the thin side. Next I moved into some Fela Kuti afro-beat that is a really clean recording and has exceptional dynamics. The V-602's sounded really good here, nice separation of instruments, clear clean highs. A slight upper-mid push, that I noticed slightly with the Grant Green, became even more apparent with the introduction of brass horn instruments. Next I tried some Beatle's Abbey Road (one of my all time favorites). The electric bass had nice punch and clarity with these speakers, though they went fairly deep they sounded a bit bright to my ears. Next was a little Eryka Bahdu, and the V-602's handled it well with a full punchy bass, and high end clarity, sounding good both high and low volume. Overall, I would say that for the money this is a fine speaker, with a slight accent on the upper-mids.

*Dali Icon 6*(msrp≈$1600)
Starting where we left off with Eryka Bahdu the Dali's had a deeper bass response, crisp highs, and a nice well balanced sound. They have very nice imaging and excellent control. Rim shots were crisp, and very real sounding. Fela Kuti showed a very nice live sound, great separation, with almost crystalline highs. When the horns started playing they came across a little harsh. On to what has become the deal breaker for more than a few speakers I have auditioned, Fu Manchu. I should say that I only play the Fu Manchu on speakers that I actually like. The "California Crossing" CD is not a spectacular recording, but is dense with crunchy guitars, thick meaty bass, and hard driving drums, and became a staple early in my speaker quest when the B&W 683's failed to sound good to it. I am happy to report that the Dali's did well, though again I thought they sounded a bit bright. I am sure that is due to the ribbon tweeter. They actually made my ears tingle, like they were stimulating all the little hairs in my ears that I usually do not use for normal hearing. I was left feeling that the Dali's reach far above the audible sound spectrum, and your dog would probably be happy to finally hear all of the music. Talking with the salesman about this he recommended pairing any Dali speaker with a tube amp to mellow the highs a bit, I think that is probably a very good suggestion. I really like the Dali sound, but I am not sure they would be a great choice for my solid state electronics, and hardwood floors. I do think that those who own them and have gotten accustomed to their high-end will think that everything else is lackluster. Nice speakers.

*Era D-10 & D-14*(msrp≈$1700 & $2000)
Moving from the Dali's into anything with out a ribbon (or plasma) tweeter is bound to leave the new guy sounding a bit dull, and it did. I was relatively unimpressed with the D-10's (I had never even heard of ERA, but they had just gotten them in and wanted to hear how they compared to the other stuff I was listening to, so I was game). They had a smooth sound but seemed to be lacking deep bass, and a bit thin in the mids. The D-14's solved both of those problems nicely, with the inclusion of a mid-range driver in addition to the two woofers + tweeter arrangement of it's little brother. I thought that the tweeter sounded a bit restrained though. This could be because the speakers had just come out of the boxes and had very little if any play time on them (if you believe in break in), or because the Dali's had ruined my perception of clear highs forever :crying: )

*Usher Be-718 "Tiny dancers"*(msrp≈$2700)
okay, way out of my stated price range, but street price is close to street price of the Hawks, and i had read some glowing reviews about these babies... Started with Eryka Bahdu, and they provided some astoundingly rich and deep bass for their "bookshelf" size, they truly have more of a floor-stander sound. Put on Fela Kuti and WOW! awesome imaging, great clarity. The brass horns on this recording were outstanding, the beryllium tweeter presented them very crisp and natural, without the extremely sharp edge of the ribbons. They gave a very FULL-range sound. Next, I tried the Grant Green. His guitar came across with a very nice tone (one of the things I love about Grant Green), piano sounded like the invisible man was playing an invisible baby grand in front of me. Very smooth speaker. I played the Beatles and was not disappointed, the bass was tight, thick, and punchy. I am not sure if Paul uses the Hoffner (sp?) or Rickenbacker bass on Abbey Road but I have always been in love with it's sound especially on that album, that thick meaty Ka-chunk that he gets...:T A solid reproduction of that specific sound is what I am looking for in a speaker, and the Usher Be-718 has it, so too does the Hawk (I just realized that yesterday when listening to the Tiny Dancers). As you can probably tell, I was digging these speakers so I wanted to try something I hadn't listened to on anything else yet, Galactic. Another of my favorite bands, these guys are a Jam band from New Orleans and play their own blend of somewhat drum oriented Jazz/Funk/Rock/hip-hop/R&B. I used their live set, which is IMO very well recorded. The Ushers did well, again. Music sounded "live," tight drums and a solid bottom end. I keep coming back to things sounding like they should on the Be-718's, just very natural... I am hesitant to say "Neutral," because that is not what I got from them. I think "Natural" is more appropriate. Okay, so I had to play the Fu Manchu last, and they did well with it, very nice presentation, though they came off sounding just a touch bright with the Fu. Fantastic speaker.

*Totem "Hawk"*(msrp≈$2400)
I had to listen to these last as they were my current favorites, kind of to put them all into perspective. Started with Fu Manchu on the Hawks and the salesman thought they seemed to reach a bit lower than the Usher Be-718. That may be true, but what I noticed was that between the two speakers their midrange presentation was the most different (actually we thought the two speakers had a very similar sound, overall). The Hawks mids were slightly more laid back, the Be-718's more forward. My opinion was reinforced when we listened to Fela Kuti and the brass section came up, crisp and clear on the Hawks, though not as forward as on the Be-718. Listening to the Beatles on the Hawks made me miss the 150watts from my first listen. They sounded less punchy than I remembered, I am sure that is because of the electronics. The Hawks are a less efficient speaker than the Ushers, though both are power hungry. We had to turn the volume knob up to about 10:00 for both (most of the other listening was done around the 9:00 position). 

So, I still have some more to hear on my list before I drop the cash, but as it stands now I have a hard choice between two excellent speakers, that both cost more than I wanted to spend :duh:


----------



## Ayreonaut

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Wow, great write-up!

Still not sure, eh? Is there anything left on your audition list?


----------



## Otto

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Did you ever hear the Vandersteens?


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Ayreonaut said:


> Wow, great write-up!
> 
> Still not sure, eh? Is there anything left on your audition list?


Yeah, there's more. Ascend Sierra's, Thiel CS1.6, I also want to hear some Dali Helicon's, NHT classic fours, and Salk Song-Towers. I am having a very hard time finding somewhere to hear the Revel Concerta F-12's and anything from Quad...
I am a fairly patient man and want to find the "right" speakers for me. In my mind it is kind of like dating... and I dated a lot before I got married. :bigsmile:

I started another thread, basically condensed my posts from this one on a different forum (I hope it's okay to link to it... Speakerquest) and added pictures and stuff, in hopes of some more input from some new and different people. I will try to keep both of them going until I decide on something.

Another thing that seems to be happening is my price seems to be increasing to get the sound I am looking for... I should probably change the title of this thread to reflect that....


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Otto said:


> Did you ever hear the Vandersteens?


I did, and I think they are a very good sounding speaker, though not right for me.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/75372-post33.html


----------



## Otto

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Ah, looks like I missed that post. Yeah, the Vandersteen look is not so popular with wives; moreso with cats... 

Sounds like you've found some winners in your search. It's a lot of fun, that speaker shopping!


----------



## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

While I haven't heard the new ERA D-10 and D-14, I'm surprised you didn't like them. Not that a designer makes them impervious to criticism, but Michael Kelly of Aerial Acoustics (and prior to that ADS) fame is the design engineer for those and the first 2 models which were small bookshelves got rave reviews. Of course, as I own Aerials (and absolutely love them!!!), I am as I said surprised. By the way, you do a good job of being quite concise in your reviews...keep on truckin'; you'll find something you absolutely love. I'm really surprised you're having so much trouble finding Revels. Oh, speaking fo the continuously rising pricing; when you get to the 3K level, you should be able to find a really nice used pair of Aerial Acoustics 10Ts (Audiogon)...which while in production (trust me they're still a very very very good speaker) were >8K a pair with Sound Anchors.
Good luck,
Konky.


----------



## JCD

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Excellent write-up! Thank you for sharing your experiences. I love hearing about peoples auditions.

I almost hope you never find "The One" so we can can continue to get these great writeups.

JCD


----------



## JCD

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Well, I've got some others that I'd like to throw in to the mix if you're still out hunting..

Dynaudio has a handful of speakers in your ~2k range.

Other than the 82's, the entire Audience line is <$2k, including some of the floor standers that get down to 28Hz (Audience 72)
In the Focus line, all but the 220 is <$2k and is capable of reaching pretty low (the 140 gets down to 41Hz)
I've only personally listened so some in the Contour line, but those have been my favorites for a while. I'm assuming that the Audience and Focus lines should similarly be great -- and maybe you could find them on sale since some (I think) of the contours are being phased out -- I've heard that line is being updated.
If I was in the market, and could afford to splurge a little, I'd probably be hitting up the Contour S1.4's. At $3k/pair though, I'd have a LOT of groveling to do. Of course, if I happened to be flush with cash (yeah, right), I'd REALLY want the 3.4's or the 5.4's.

I wasn't sure where you lived, so I included all of the SoCal Dynaudio dealers (per Dyaudio's website) below. I'd really like to hear what you think.


JCD



Atlantic Stereo
445 E. 17th St.
Costa Mesa, CA 92627
(949) 646-8895

Sound Factor
2936 Wilshire Blvd.
Santa Monica, CA 90403
(310) 264-5457

Sound Factor
2 South Rosemead Blvd.
Pasadena, CA 91107
(626) 577-4945

Sound Factor
17265 Ventura
Encino, CA 91316
(818) 501-3548

Elite Custom AV
5505 Moreno St. Ste 104
Montclair, CA 91763
(909) 931-2835

Audio Architect
7480 La Jolla Blvd.
La Jolla, CA 92037 
(858) 435-0331

LA Audio Video
101 S. Western Ave. 
Los Angeles, CA 90004 
(213) 252-0066 

MaxSecurity Systems, Inc.
8111 Orion Ave.
Van Nuys, CA 91406
(800) 540-4022

Sound World
9738 Westminster Ave. #103
Garden Grove, CA 92844
(714) 539-0523


----------



## PT800

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> So far:
> Axioms are on my not-so-short list,
> along with Paradigm Studio series,
> B&W 683's & CM7's,
> Def-Tech mythos,
> Totem,
> Onix rpcket RS850,
> Revel F-12,
> Monitor Audio Silver RS-6/8,
> and the SVS MTS-01...
> 
> Now vandersteen joins that group.
> Any arguments for or against, and/or further additions to that list are welcome.


If that was my list, the Revels would get the top honors.
Might also add VA.

Also along the lines of the Revels would be JBL's Performance Series, which would require their matching subs, or other suitable subs. 
I have the PS PT800s with Revel subs. Actually, the Revel sub driver (Ultima sub15) was built by JBL Pro, the SUB1500. I have the main PT800s stacked on the SUB1500s. The overall sound of the PS system is superb, clean, detailed highs, solid mids and rock solid bass.
The matching subs are the PS1400.
The list for the PT800 is $1600/ea, but can be had for a lot less. The Harman online store has them for $1050/ea and $1119 for the subs. And at times can be had for even less, with a little seaching, online.
http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/default.asp?sp=S&brand=JBL&market=HOM
http://ultimateavmag.com/speakersystems/31/ Gordon Holt's review.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Speakerquest (Round 6)


Yesterday turned out to be a Dynaudio kind of day. The first place I went, actually to hear the Thiel's, couldn't carry them because another dealer was too close. Other locations of the same name carried them, but not the one I went to... What I did find was a wide selection of B&W and Dynaudio, and one little surprise in the form of a pair of Quad 22L's...
I used the same CD's and same tracks that I have been using to test most of the speakers I have been listening to, and I gotta tell ya, I am starting to get sick of hearing those songs! With the speakers that I like, I find myself delving further into each CD so I can just enjoy the music. The speakers that I don't feel a connection with, I find myself pushing through all my test tracks, hoping I will find something engaging in the sound. 

Here we go (again)...

Dynaudio Audience 72-SE(≈$2500)

Started with Jazz, and found the Audience 72-SE's to present nice piano sounds, clear cymbals, and a fairly accurate, but dry tone on Grant Green's guitar. I thought that these speakers imaged well with this recording. I moved into Fela Kuti and first noticed that the bass was decent and carried some impact with it. The highs came across tight, with decent sounding brass, though I was starting to feel like the music was veiled with these speakers (recessed mids maybe). <"Veiled" is a term I have read in several user reviews of equipment, but one that I myself have never used until now.> The recording of Fela Kuti is a very dynamic one, that through these speakers seemed much less so, if that makes any sense to you. I played the Beatles "Come Together" and felt that the bass guitar was warm and smooth but lacked any sort of punch to it. The electric guitars were forward but vocals seemed recessed. Erykah Badu was missing something with the 72's, bass was not all that deep, rim shots didn't sound true, I had heard enough of this speaker. On to the next in the Dynaudio line...

Dynaudio Audience 82(≈$2800)

Top of the Audience line, and for $300 more than the 72 SE's you get better definition, and more bass impact, and a more enveloping sound. I started with the Hard rock of Fu Manchu, which I did not listen to on the 72's. The electric guitars sounded decent though they did not have as much of an aggressive quality that I have heard on other speakers. The 82's still sounded a bit veiled to me, still laid back. At this point I am wondering if this is just the Dynaudio sound. I put in Fela Kuti and immediately noticed that they sounded more clear, the congestion I was hearing in the 72's was better. Horns came through with more of an edge to them. I put in the Beatles and found a better more enveloping overall sound. There was more bass impact, and vocals were more forward. I felt that this speaker improved significantly on the shortcomings of the 72. Erykah Badu had a deeper bass line, but not as deep as some of the other speakers I have auditioned. Vocals were better, a more balanced sound, and rimshots sounded crisp though more like wood on wood than wood on metal. I put in Red Snapper, a disk I used in earlier rounds; it is electronic based with an upright acoustic bass, some deep synth tones, and a variety of sounds that stretch the upper end. They provide a very nice atmosphere and at times a very wide musical spectrum. With electronic music I found the Auduence 82's to hint at the sub bass, but not to present it fully. overall I would say that they did a pretty good job with it. My lasting impression with the Dynaudio 82's is that they performed far better with Jazz and electronic music (music that is not so dense) than they did with rock, though in this department they did much better than the smaller 72 SE's.

Dynaudio Focus 220(≈$3000)

I swear these must have gone up in price in the last month, because the Focus 220's were on my original list of speakers to audition, when my budget was capped at $2000... So, naturally I had to listen to them. Before I comment on their sound, I have to say that these are beautiful looking speakers. The veiner and finish are gorgeous, pictures do not do these babies justice...
I started with the Beatles this time and thought that the Focus 220's had a very nice presentation. Highs, mids and lows all came across very smooth, and well balanced. I thought that this is a speaker that has a neutral sound. (Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think I have said that about any of the speakers I have listened to so far, except maybe the Vandersteens... but this one I think embodies it.) On "Come Together" guitars and drums sounded meaty, and cymbals clear. The bell in "Maxwell's Silver Hammer" rang true. Drums in "The End" (could be my favorite break beat of all time) did not get lost in the din of the crescendo. Vocals were smooth throughout. I wanted to listen to all of Abbey Road, start to finish on these speakers, but I had several more tests ahead. 
Next up was Fela Kuti "Shuffering And Shmiling" (yes, thats the way they spelled it on the album) and the nice recording here came through beautifully. The horns sounded natural, slightly shrill where they would be when played live, not bright, not rolled off, but correct. The mids and highs were exceptional with afro-beat, and that cymbals were tight and accurate and had a nice decay. At this point I began to notice that the Focus 220's were missing a bit of clarity in the bottom end. (I think that it was due to their placement directly in front of the Audience 82's, and the fact that the Focus 220's are a rear ported design. Because of this less than ideal placement I am inclined to believe that they would perform at least equal to their $200 cheaper cousins in terms of bass clarity with better placement. This is my 20/20 hindsight, speaking)
Erykah Badu proved to have a velvety smooth and full bass-line, that also (and a little annoyingly) seemed to lack a bit of definition. Rim shots sounded good though still not quite wood on metal true. Her vocals came across smokey and lush. Despite what I was hearing as a little bit of a loose bottom end, I thought these speakers were very easy to listen to.
Red Snapper went in and nice clarity came out. Acoustic instruments sounded crisp, and electro beats were handled with grace. Tight synth drums were tight, and the upper range was crystal clear. I also began to notice that the Focus 220's were imaging nicely, though off axis listening suffered a bit(as it does with most speakers).
Fu Manchu proved to be the first recording to reveal a more laidback nature to the 220's. They were not as aggressive in the mids as other speakers have been with this recording. Again I noticed the lack of definition in the bass, but nothing too severe. They sounded more closed in with this recording, not as open as they did with other music. Here they may be revealing the recording itself, which is admittedly less that ideal.
Grant Green sounded great. All the Dynaudios seemed to like Jazz better than rock. The acoustic bass sounded a bit sloppy though. (I really do not mean to dwell on that, because I think that better placement would go a long way to resolve it and I am really just transcribing my notes here to organize my thoughts in my own head.) 
Upper bass, mids and highs are very nice on the Dynaudio Focus 220's, though they do not have that tight, quickness in the very bottom that I am looking for. But due to placement issues I think they deserve a second listen, in a more ideal location (like my home? )
I get the impression the high price tag is a common trait for all Dynaudio speakers and think that they are about $1000 too high across the board. Okay maybe $500, but only because they are so pretty...


As I was wandering around the listening room I noticed a pair of small black towers hiding next some cardboard speaker boxes, set off to the side, not very noticeable. When I looked a little closer I realized that they were on my list! I asked the manager about them and he said he took them in on a trade and told me the price which was incredible considering their condition and the msrp. He said he would gladly hook them up so I could have a listen. Unfortunately he put them in the same spot as he had put the Focus 220's, and being another rear ported design I think the bass suffered because of it...

Quad 22L(msrp≈$1800)

First thing I noted about the Quads was that they were more focused than the Dynaudios I had been listening to (read: didn't sound as good off axis, pretty tight sweet-spot... while this is may be good in other parts of life , maybe not the best thing with speakers ) They did however have a very nice open presentation, cymbals sounded good, and the mids were perhaps slightly forward with Grant Green. I noticed the same sloppy acoustic bass that I noticed with the Focus 220's, which is why I made my conclusions about placement. I figured what are the chances that two speakers from two different companies would create identical weirdness? I slipped in Re Snapper to test out the sub bass, and found it was there, well, at least hinted at. I thought they would be perfect candidates to run with a sub. (funny, because when I got home last night I searched for comments about this speaker from other people to see how they compared to my observations and most of them commented on how low this speaker went, again reinforcing my placement theory and the importance of listening to these speakers yourself) The Beatles vocals sounded good, as did the upper frequencies. Fu Manchu was suitably chunky but seemed to be missing the lowest octave. I came away with the impression that the Quad 22L's were a "bookshelf" speaker in a tall box.



On the way out of the shop I stopped to give a very brief (refresher)listen to the
B&W CM-7(revisited)
I was not as impressed as I was the first time I heard them (more things to compare them to now) but I still felt that they were quite good. The bass went pretty low, though not as low as some and was a little loose. I still have an appreciation for their open sound and they impressed me enough on first listen to give them a second sit down in the future.



____________

Okay I set out to hear the Thiels yesterday and, **** it I was going to do it. I did. At another shop about 2-3 miles from the first.

Thiel CS 1.6(≈$2500)

I listened to the Thiel's through a Creek integrated amp that put out 50wpc (I think) in an attempt to equate the Onkyo I have at home, and I feel that with more power that they very well may be capable of more in the bass department. (For the record, I think the salesman had some off-base preconceived notions about what he called "some ****** home theater receiver")
I started out with Grant Green and immediately the highs came off very crisp. There was nice tone to the guitar. The acoustic bass was somewhere in the deep background, and the cymbals were way up front. Kind of made for a distorted soundstage. Saxophone sounded good. There was a definite edge to the sound of the Thiels. Fela Kuti sounded bright overall and I felt the bottom end was lacking. However, the trumpets and saxophones did not sound as harsh as I expected them to, they actually sounded quite good. The Beatles bass punch was there but failed to envelop. Vocals sounded pretty good, as did the guitar. At this point I was definitely feeling that these were not the speakers for me, and my ears were tired. I really thought that the Thiel CS 1.6 would benefit greatly by a tube amp. I pressed on with Erykah Badu and heard the bass there but not full enough, rim shots were crisp, cymbal hits were downright brittle. Kick drum came strangely forward and sound more electro than acoustic. Just for a, "why not?" I put on Fu Manchu and found a lack of lower mids. This speaker definitely favors the high end. The bass was recessed again; there but not full. That is what makes me feel increased amplification would bring the bass out of the Thiels. Not a favorable audition for me, not the sound I am looking for, though they looked pretty cool with the grills off.

The only other thing of interest to me in this shop (i.e. in my price range) was a pair of bookshelves:

PSB Synchrony 2B (≈$1500)

We decided to increase the power to see what these things were actually capable of, and set them up in the same room. After a couple of false starts which included me telling the salesman that only one speaker was working, and another one when I noticed there was no bass coming from one speaker. Once we got that all figured out these little guys sounded great. With Erykah Badu the PSB's produced an impressive amount of bass, rim shots were crisp and sounded authentic. Vocals were rich and smooth. Fela Kuti had a nice full range of sound going on, with good detail. Horns had a slight edge to them without sounding bright, and cymbals sounded great. With Red Snapper the acoustic bass sounded pretty good but failed to fully envelop. Electro beats were handled nicely. I get the impression that these are really good "all around" speakers. The Beatles gave a pretty even sound, nothing stood out, could be I am hearing another nearly neutral speaker. On "Come Together" the guitars were slightly forward, but I think that it was the way it was intended. In "The End" the drums sounded excellent, and easily panned across the soundstage with the recording. Fu Manchu sounded pretty good but lacked a bit of growl on these speakers.
I liked the PSB Synchrony 2B, and I am interested in finding out more about them and the other speakers in the Synchrony family.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



conchyjoe7 said:


> While I haven't heard the new ERA D-10 and D-14, I'm surprised you didn't like them.


I didn't care for the D-10, they were lacking in midrange and bass, but the D-14's I did like. I just thought that they were lacking in the highs, but I also stated that was most likely because I listened to them directly after hearing a set of speakers with a ribbon tweeter for the first time. I actually want to listen to the ERA D-14's again, but this time with fresh ears.



conchyjoe7 said:


> By the way, you do a good job of being quite concise in your reviews...keep on truckin'; you'll find something you absolutely love.


Thanks Konky



conchyjoe7 said:


> I'm really surprised you're having so much trouble finding Revels. Oh, speaking fo the continuously rising pricing; when you get to the 3K level, you should be able to find a really nice used pair of Aerial Acoustics 10Ts (Audiogon)...which while in production (trust me they're still a very very very good speaker) were >8K a pair with Sound Anchors.


I am surprised the Revels are so hard to find too, especially in such a huge city. I will keep an eye out for used Aerial's BTW I listened to my first 3K speakers yesterday...

-Greg


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



JCD said:


> Excellent write-up! Thank you for sharing your experiences. I love hearing about peoples auditions.
> 
> I almost hope you never find "The One" so we can can continue to get these great writeups.
> 
> JCD


Thanks Jacen, Great timing! :T while you were posting the dealers I was organizing my chicken scratch notes and trying to put together some cohesive thoughts on a few Dynaudio's I listened to yesterday...


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



PT800 said:


> If that was my list, the Revels would get the top honors.


They are the ones I want to hear most, but am having the hardest time finding... isn't that always the case though.



PT800 said:


> Might also add VA.


Is that Vienna Acoustic??? I heard the Bach's but liked the Monitors better, Unfortunately I don't know much about their other offerings...

And thanks for the other info, John.

Cheers,
Greg


----------



## JCD

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Just for reference, here is the price list for Dynaudio's line -- at least as of March 2007. The focus 220's were $3000/pr according to the list.

I'm disappointed that the Audience line wasn't as good as I was hoping. Thanks again for the great write ups.

JCD


----------



## PT800

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> They are the ones I want to hear most, but am having the hardest time finding... isn't that always the case though.
> 
> 
> Is that Vienna Acoustic??? I heard the Bach's but liked the Monitors better, Unfortunately I don't know much about their other offerings...
> 
> And thanks for the other info, John.
> 
> Cheers,
> Greg


To bad you're not closer to Tahoe, there is a Revel dealer in Olympic Valley. Don't remember what models he had on display.
Dealer wise, the JBL Performance Series can be equally hard to find. With the most available source being the Harman online store. The PT800s used to be available at Tweeters, but I don't think they had the matching subs, for some stupid reason. Of coarse, Tweeters is no longer in SoCA or LV, but there are still 4 or 5 stores in Arizona.
Those of us that have the PS figure that they are a trickle down design from earlier Revels, which is a Harman Company, like JBL, Infinity.

As for VA, I remember liking the Beethoveens the best.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



JCD said:


> Just for reference, here is the price list for Dynaudio's line -- at least as of March 2007. The focus 220's were $3000/pr according to the list.
> JCD


Unless I denote "msrp" I have been listing the prices that the dealer quotes me, with no haggling. Those prices are pretty much in line with Msrp, though. Thats why the"≈". Most dealers will come down 10-20% from there. Thanks for posting that link...


----------



## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Funky...if you haven't seen this site, you should. http://www.laaudiofile.com/dealers.html It's a pretty thorough listing of all AV dealers in Southern Cali. Hope this helps...Oh, and there is an Aerial dealer...go listen to the 7B if you get the opportunity.
Cheers,
Konky.


----------



## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Greg:
What I keep getting from you (amongst other things) is a desire for really tight, deep bass. I do hope you get to listen to Aerials...and another speaker that has an unreal bottom end and is just a fabulous speaker all around is the transmission line loaded Acoustic Zen Addagio which you can get for a really good price used, and they're manufactured in San Diego I do believe. See here http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1208095764 and see if they interest you, but if you go in a store that carries them; by ALL means give them a listen...almost spooky no kidding!
Cheers,
Konky.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



conchyjoe7 said:


> Greg:
> What I keep getting from you (amongst other things) is a desire for really tight, deep bass. I do hope you get to listen to Aerials...and another speaker that has an unreal bottom end and is just a fabulous speaker all around is the transmission line loaded Acoustic Zen Addagio which you can get for a really good price used, and they're manufactured in San Diego I do believe. See here http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1208095764 and see if they interest you, but if you go in a store that carries them; by ALL means give them a listen...almost spooky no kidding!
> Cheers,
> Konky.


Yes, "really tight, deep bass" seems to be where most speakers fall short, and what I want, along with the lush full mids, and the clear accurate highs. I am starting to think that I may have no choice but to go sub/sat. Only drag is I would have to get the new electronics first before I can enjoy the full sound, and I would rather not use a sub for two channel listening. I will look for both the speakers you mentioned. 

What do you have Konky, I know that you have heard many, just wondered what you keep at home? was it the Vandersteen's?

I also contacted Revel today and they are going to try and find a dealer in the area who has the F-12's, so that I can hear them. I got to a 60 mile radius before I called Revel directly...


----------



## PT800

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> Yes, "really tight, deep bass" seems to be where most speakers fall short, and what I want, along with the lush full mids, and the clear accurate highs. I am starting to think that I may have no choice but to go sub/sat. Only drag is I would have to get the new electronics first before I can enjoy the full sound, and I would rather not use a sub for two channel listening. I will look for both the speakers you mentioned.
> 
> What do you have Konky, I know that you have heard many, just wondered what you keep at home? was it the Vandersteen's?
> 
> I also contacted Revel today and they are going to try and find a dealer in the area who has the F-12's, so that I can hear them. I got to a 60 mile radius before I called Revel directly...


Powered subs have been around longer than multi-channel sound. I've had at least one sub in continual use since '79 (L212/B212 system). 
For stereo, the trick is using a musical sub, even for HT, I prefer a musical sub, thus the reason for the Revel/JBL SUB1500s I've got. I've not heard the PS1400 that matches the PT800s, but from what others have said, it is a very good sub, though it doesn't go as low as the SUB1500s, they're considered VLF.

Two of my three systems have subs. Only the MB system doesn't have a sub. But as that pair of L212s are wall mounted(to the sides of this screen) they get plently of bass reinforcement, from the wall, but I have had a sub in here before.

As for the newer Revel subs, I would except no less than the pair I have now.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

For subs I would lean toward SVS, HSU, AV123, or Outlaw (maybe) but really have not done much research on any of them. Only noticed that they get favorable mentions and offer a good bang for the buck. And yes I will choose a "musical" sub when I get there. I am in no hurry, and enjoying this journey immensely.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

*Speakerquest (Round 7)*

*Paradigm Studio 100:*(≈$2600)

I brought a couple of different CD's with me, but mostly the same. One of the new ones was Quincy Jones "Big Band Bossa Nova." I am sure everybody knows the first track on it as it was used to death in the Austin Powers movies... much of the disk is a bit cheesy, but it is recorded well. The second track, however, is great, very dynamic, lots of sounds, truly a BIG band. As soon as it started playing on the 100's I thought "nice... definitely a wall of sound." I could hear the bells, saxophones, trumpets, drums, guitars... all distinct and separate. Saxophones and muted trumpets both had a nice tone. everything was very clear, very dynamic. 

The Beatles "Come Together" had a full, warm, smooth bassline. Guitars and vocals were in balance and equally as full as the bass. I skipped forward to "The End," and the Paradigms sounded great. Vocals were nice and clear. Guitars were crunchy and I could hear the decay on the amp in-between the chords. Drums were good, but I failed to note anything about them. That is unusual for me, because it is the drums that I like best about that song, I guess I was too busy listening to all the other sounds going on... Cymbals, were very distinct.

Erykah Badu showed very nice bass impact from the Studio 100's. Rim shots sounded great. This set of Paradigms brought the vocals more forward with this music, and seemed to strip away some of the lushness of them. There is a definite edge to their sound.

Fela Kuti was handled well, another dynamic recording, on a dynamic speaker. Actually, I think that is the best way to describe the Paradigm Studio 100's. "Dynamic." They have a very nice separation of sound with this music, nothing gets muddled together. Horns have a definite edge to them, coming across a little bright. I think that along with the upper mid push that seems to run through the Studio line, that the 100's have a mid bass push too. I like the impact that it creates. I actually feel the bass lines with these speakers. Though, they do not move enough air to let me feel the kick drum like you would at a live show.

The second "new" disk I brought today was Stanton Moore "All Kooked Out." He is the drummer (one of the best out there right now, IMO) for the band Galactic and tends more toward jazz with his solo releases. On this one he is accompanied by Charlie Hunter who plays an 8(I think) string bass/guitar. He gets some great sounds going with his custom instrument and has an instantly recognizable style... (wait a minute I am supposed to be writing about the speakers! Sorry about the digression, I am a music junky... "Funkmonkey, the music junky." Man, sometimes I crack myself up ) The 100's actually sounded great with this recording. Nice full bass (again), highs are crisp, sax sounds true, and drums are solid. I don't notice any accents with this music.

Fu Manchu- guitars sound a little too edgy, bass has nice impact and fullness... I am feeling it again. Overall they sound good with hard rock but maybe a bit too crisp.

I get the impression that the Paradigm Studio 100's would make an outstanding set of fronts for home-theater/movies, especially with the way that they treat vocals. I really love their bass impact, and the depth that they reach with out sounding flabby. If I took these home I would have to use an EQ to tone down the upper mids/highs a bit because I ultimately feel that they are a bit out of balance. If the top end of these were more smooth, like the Dynaudio's, or the Usher Be's, I would buy them. I still may, as they are certainly in my top four.

I should also add that these are physically the largest speakers I have listened to, the Martin Logans stand taller, but the Paradigms have a bigger footprint and take up the most volume of space. They are also distinctive in their styling, especially with the grills off. Eight drivers and two tweeters can be pretty imposing to look at, for one pair of speakers.

I managed to do a quick comparison to the Dynaudio Focus 220's, as the place I went had both....

*Dynaudio Focus 220*(revisited)
Overall I thought that the Focus 220's were a much smoother sounding speaker than the Studio 100's. Less punchy in the bass and less crisp in the highs. That is not necessarily a bad thing, it is just a difference in sound from one speaker to the next, and each would have advantages with different kinds of music. For example, I liked trumpets better on the Dynaudios, but saxophones better on the Paradigms. Erykah Badu rattled the grill covers on the Dynaudio's today, and we had to remove them to listen. The sloppy bass issues I had the other day were gone, they sounded deep lush and defined. But, next to the Studio 100's the Focus 220's did not go quite as low. Overall I preferred the sound of Erykah Badu on the Dynaudio's, though I would want to supplement their bottom end with a sub. Quincy Jones had a bit less sparkle on the Focus 220's, but everything was still distinct and clear, just less forward. The same thing can be said about Stanton Moore, and Fu Manchu: less forward; in your face; not as crisp, or punchy as the Studio 100's. I still really like the sound of the Dynaudio Focus 220's, they seem to be content to blend into the background and let you enjoy the music. More refined and understated, in both looks and sound, than the "I am going to ROCK your face off" attitude of the Studio 100's.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

*Round 8*

This trip out was a little different, as a local speaker builder invited me down to offer my opinion about some speakers that are in the later stages of development for release into the mainstream market. His name is Franklin Mack and he and his brother have been designing and building custom loudspeakers and drivers for several years. This is part of a PM that he sent me that explains his background and approach better than I can:

"At Audia Media Group we have an insatiable passion for music. But our focus has aways been to help our clients create the best sound system based on their budget. We offer this solution through our customizeable designs of Planar and Ribbon products we also design and build many types of drivers. Over the past 10yrs Audia has been an OEM Loudspeaker Manufacturer for many highend loudspeaker brands, based an our contracts I'm not at liberty to disclose names. ...we can build a speaker system around your electronic or personal wants or needs. Thats what we do. ...After reviewing your listening list it would be great information for my R&D team. We feel that our product is not only some of the best on the market at any price range, we also feel that for the money our speakers cannot be beat. People talk about Internet Direct dealers like AV123, At Audia you can consider our pricing structure to be manufacturer direct. Meaning we dont have the middle men to go through and can offer or products directly to our consumer..."

Franklin turned out to be a great guy, and we wound up talking about a lot of stuff yesterday revolving around speakers, music and our own personal interests and backgrounds as fellow musicians. His company is still constructing their website so they aren't on the web, yet, but Frank assured me a web site is coming soon... I should add that I was not payed in any way to do this. The manager of the store that carries the Audia speakers came across this thread and thought that maybe Franklin and I could help each other out, thanks Mike. I hope this helps...


*Audia Sound Labs 8.6*(≈$3000)


The speakers I listened to were still prototypes so there were a couple of "rough edges" regarding the fit and finish of the cabinets themselves. When I spoke to Frank about them he was already aware and has a good plan to resolve them. They were small details that would help to make these look as polished as their competitors at this price range. The smaller speaker, to the right, is another model they are working on that I did not listen to.

I started with Grant Green and thought that the tone of his guitar was pretty good though these speakers seemed to bring out it's distortion from the original recording. My first thought was that this was sounding smooth for a ribbon tweeter. The guitar seemed to be a little bit more forward on these speakers than on others, snare drums were crisp, and the acoustic bass was sounding good too. Saxophone proved to have a mellow tone that resonated nicely, accurate. I thought that the upper-mids were slightly forward with jazz, but this seems to be a very common voicing on speakers (because I feel like I say that a lot) When the vibraphone started playing my attention was jerked away from the couple looking at a sound system a few feet away from me. Wow, that sounded real, very forward but very real. I think that is one sound that ribbons do exceptionally realistic.

I put in Fela Kuti and the accent in the upper range became more apparent. Horns sounded a bit peaked in the upper register, though smooth in the lower. When there is a lot of brass playing it tends to be a little too "in your face." The low end and mids sounded good when not dominated by the upper range of the ribbon. I also note a touch of sibilence in the vocal.

Erykah Badu has the bass going pretty deep, but coming up a bit short of the music, also very common with the speakers i have been listening to. Rim shots sound a little thin here and her voice seems to be pushed a little higher, not sounding as full or lush as it should.

The Beatles "Come Together" sounds full but the music does not envelop me as fully as other speakers have. I can hear a lot of detail in the recording though, such as fingers sliding on bass strings in between notes. Cymbals are clear and forward. "The End" has drums sounding pretty good but missing a bit of impact. The high are a little edgy with this song, and seem to dominate the sound.

I brought some James Brown along this time and the recording I chose sounded like it was recorded in a hallway. Aside from the extremely narrow soundstage, I felt that the bass should be more forward and thicker. This is not a forgiving speaker to listen to, and shows the recording quality and most likely the limits of the electronics found upstream.

I also thought I would try some MC 900ft Jesus "If I Only Had A Brain." Highs were predictable crisp and tight, and his voice sounded little thin. Bass on this song includes a few sonic bombs that go very, very low and these speakers got a decent chunk of it, but not all.

By this time I already knew that this is not the sound signature that I am looking for but thought I would play Fu Manchu for sake of completion. It actually sounded pretty good on the Audia Sound Labs 8.6. The true-mids seemed to be recessed, but I think that is due to dominance of the ribbon tweeter. If there were some tubes backing this speaker I feel that it would sound better. Though slightly smoother than the Dali, it is still related with the ribbon tweeter sound, If you like that sound you might want to check out Audia Sound Labs. A pretty solid effort, though not a good fit for me.


The place I went yesterday stocked several other speakers and electronics including a set that was on my original list that I had not yet heard...

*NHT Classic four*(msrp≈$2000)


Grant Green sounded good on the Classic Four's. Bass is nice and full, guitar tone is very nice. I can hear the mild distortion in this recording but it is not distracting. Piano sounds are nice here too.

The horns in Fela Kuti are nice and smooth, bass has good solid impact and a full, rich sound to it. Trumpets and saxophone have a nice tone to them. Imaging is also pretty good with the NHT's. There is a nice balance to these speakers, nothing seems to stand out, fairly even sound.

The Beatles sounded good here too. Bass on "Come Together" was rich and smooth, though didn't have as much impact as it did with Fela Kuti. Guitars sounded right, again nothing standing out, "easy to listen to" speaker. On "The End" I thought the drums were tight, and guitars were in balance, though the highs were sounding slightly rolled off. Most likely residual effect of the long session with the ribbons.

Erykah Badu plumed the depths of the NHT's and though they went very deep, they came off sounding a little flabby. Her vocals sounded good, and I was noticing the imaging again. One thing that started to bother me was the sound of the rimshots, they came off sounding a bit plastic.

James Brown still sounded like he was in a hallway, slightly wider hallway, but still narrow sounding, and drums sounded like they were being played on a toy kit... I don't think I will continue to use this track... 

With Fu Manchu I noted the solid sound of the kick drum. Guitars had the right growl to them, though I thought the highs were a slightly tame and "plasticy" sounding. 

Overall I thought the NHT Classic Fours were pretty good speakers. Not as detailed as some, but they had a good solid bottom end, even if it got sloppy at the very bottom. I wouldn't be surprised if this speaker is rated to perform lower than any of the other ones I have listened to.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Why don't you rank these as you go? Or maybe give us your top five. :T


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

thats a good idea
No problem. 

Top 5 so far:

Totem-Hawk, Usher Be-718, Dynaudio Focus 220, Paradigm Studio 100
(all tied for the top spot, and all well over my original budget :bigsmile: )
followed by Monitor audio RS-8


----------



## conchyjoe7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I think Greg, AKA Funkmonkey deserves a good round of applause and congratulations from us all for doing such an exemplary job of reviewing speakers and allowing all of us to "go along for the ride" if you will. The reason for his success and concise observations I believe to be twofold: His passion for music, and his determination to get what he wants (as well as knowing what he wants). He is also getting an education that in speakers more so than any other component; performance and pricing do go very much hand in hand. While it is true that you may find a "bargain" speaker that meets all of your requirements, I believe this to be largely contingent upon your requirements (and/or needs). Greg is now well aware that to get what "he" wants in a speaker entails more than he had budgeted...but he has also learned that the reward for his efforts will be well worth the efforts he has put forth, and will in the end provide him with many many years of pleasure.

I for one congratulate him and look forward to his successful completion (although I'll miss the reviews) of his quest.

Congrats Greg...keep it up...I do believe you are almost there! 
Cheers,
Konky.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Thanks Konky, you are absolutely right about my education of sound. I have been in touch with Jim Salk (about his SongTowers) and he took the time to help me understand why it is so hard for me to find what I want out of a speaker under $2000. Even for $3000 the elements are there but never seem to all be found in the same speaker. I think that at $5000 for a pair I may start to find what I want, but more likely I would have to hit the $10,000 mark to truly get the sound I am looking for. That is okay, I knew that I would not be completely satisfied for the money I can spend. You have been a great help to me in this search, and I truly appreciate it. Thanks to you and a couple of other folks that I have PM'd back and forth I am trying to audition some $5000+ speakers in hopes that i can find them in the used market. 

Funny thing has happened recently, through all the auditions I have been realizing just how awful my current speakers sound... I honestly have a hard time listening to them now, so I may wind up getting something for while with the plan to upgrade later, rather than continuing my somewhat naive search in this price range. It has become obvious that I have expensive taste :bigsmile:


----------



## PT800

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> Thanks Konky, you are absolutely right about my education of sound. I have been in touch with Jim Salk (about his SongTowers) and he took the time to help me understand why it is so hard for me to find what I want out of a speaker under $2000. Even for $3000 the elements are there but never seem to all be found in the same speaker. I think that at $5000 for a pair I may start to find what I want, but more likely I would have to hit the $10,000 mark to truly get the sound I am looking for. That is okay, I knew that I would not be completely satisfied for the money I can spend. You have been a great help to me in this search, and I truly appreciate it. Thanks to you and a couple of other folks that I have PM'd back and forth I am trying to audition some $5000+ speakers in hopes that i can find them in the used market.
> 
> Funny thing has happened recently, through all the auditions I have been realizing just how awful my current speakers sound... I honestly have a hard time listening to them now, so I may wind up getting something for while with the plan to upgrade later, rather than continuing my somewhat naive search in this price range. It has become obvious that I have expensive taste :bigsmile:


It called upgradeitis. But its never a constant up hill walk. Some expensive speakers aren't worth 1/2 their price, while others may well be under priced for what they're capable of.

At the $5K/pr you're in the JBL PS range(list). Two PT800/two PS1400 subs stacked together to make a pair of full range towers.
Of coarse we all have some kind of budget limit and at times we'll totally throw out that limit, and go for broke.
I know what speakers I'd get, if I totally threw out the budget.
But cheers to your walk through speaker land.:bigsmile:


----------



## JCD

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

First of all, I completely with conchyjoe.. your efforts and detailed reviews are much appreciated. I'm actually a little jealous as I enjoy this auditioning process.

Next, I just thought of something that may be a worthwhile audition -- Mackie 824's (or something from Genelec). 

Are they pretty? Nope. 

Are the marketed for home use? Nope. 

Are they great sounding speakers anyway? Yep.

The mackies are actively bi-amped speakers with built in eq. Practically ruler flat FR until 40hz (I think). If you can find the older version, they can be found for less than $800/pr. The newer version can be had for ~$1000/pr. Just need a preamp or receiver with pre-outs. I've heard them before, and they were pretty amazing for the price.

What could be even better, you could audition them in your home. I think you can buy them at most music stores and return them if you don't like them. Assuming the music store has a good return policy.

Anyway, that's my latest "why don't you try.."

JCD


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

This is a list of everything I have listened to so far, in the order I listened to them and a quick synopsis of my thoughts:

*B&W 683* - “average” sound; lacked detail; not too bad. but I want more for the price

*Paradigm Studio 60* - nice mid range; nice detail; a bit light on bass

*B&W CM-7* - nice “air”; good with Jazz; decent soundstage

*Monitor Audio RS-6* - crisp highs; nice mids; lacking bass

*Monitor Audio RS-8* - All the detail, and midrange of the RS-6 with a nice full bottom end; very good speaker for the money

*Vienna Acoustic Bach* - laid back sound; highs sounded congested to me

*Martin Logan Purity* - crisp, clear upper range and a very full, well balanced sound; If you like electrostatic speakers, these are a hybrid with an internal amp, so you could theoreticaly plug your iPod directly into them and enjoy

*Vandersteen 1C* - very clean sound; lean in the mids; laid back presentation; a real bargain for under $1g if you don’t mind the looks

*Vandersteen 2Ce Sig II* - Piano sounds were excellent; full even sound; laid back presentation; kind of the “ugly ducklings” out of this group

*Totem Acoustic Hawk* - Very nice looking and sounding; Big sound, small footprint; Tight; detailed; full; deep; nice imaging. Excellent sounding speaker.

*Usher V-602* - clean clear highs; full punchy bass; a little bright; another bargain at $1g

*Dali Icon 6* - crystalline highs; fairly deep bass; well balanced sound; If you like the ribbon tweeter sound these are a well rounded speaker and deserve a listen.

*Era D-10* - laid back sound; a little thin in the mids; no deep bass

*Era D-14* - laid back; smooth sound; full mids; somewhat extended bass; highs sounded restrained to my ears (had just listened to the Dali’s)

*Usher Be-718* - Great imaging; clarity; very impressive bass for their size, thick and punchy; very full, natural sound. Excellent speaker.

*Dynaudio Audience 72-SE* - Sounded veiled to me in the mids; bass was not very deep; highs were pretty good; smooth (I thought, a little too smooth) 

*Dynaudio Audience 82* - Distinct improvement over 72; less veiled; some bass impact and fairly deep; mids are level; Good speaker for less dense music.

*Dynaudio Focus 220* - very pretty speaker (much nicer looking than Audience line); Smooth; even; balanced; laid back presentation; neutral sounding speaker; nice imaging; low end goes fairly deep but looses definition at the bottom. Very solid performer; great all around-er; easy to listen to, easy to like.

*Quad 22L* - open presentation; highs and mids are clear and focused; deep bass get a little sloppy but it tries.

*Thiel CS 1.6* - bright crisp highs; decent midrange; recessed bass

*PSB Synchrony 2B* - capable of fairly deep bass; Highs and mids in balance; neutral sounding speaker; big sound, small box; drums were very good on this speaker.

*Paradigm Studio 100* - Dynamic; very clear; a bit on the bright side; reaches deep; punchy; strong mid-bass

*Audia Sound Labs 8.6* - decent bass; crisp highs; decent mids; imaging still needs work.

*NHT Classic four* - very deep reaching bass; lack of definition at the very bottom of its considerable range; full midrange; highs were detailed but sounded slightly plastic to me. I am sure that this mass market speaker makes many people happy.


Of the speakers I have listened to these are the ones that I am most interested in and why:

1) *Totem Hawk* & *Usher Be-718* -they actually have a similar sound signature, the Hawks seem to favor the true mids, while the Ushers focus a little more on the upper mids. I like the sound of both of these speakers very much. They both provide incredible sound from a relatively small package, and image very well.

3) *Dynaudio Focus 220 *& *Paradigm Studio 100* -another tie, and both very close to being tied with the two in the number one spot. These guys are very different in their presentation and pretty much "bookend" the Hawks and Ushers. The Paradigms are very dynamic, and the Dynaudios are smooth and mellow, with the other two some where in the middle. Both are excellent speakers for very different reasons.

5) *Monitor Audio RS-8* -excellent value, excellent sound. Very good all around speaker for not a lot of money.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

That is an impressive list of speakers to have auditioned. I would be :dizzy: :thud:


----------



## jakewash

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I've only listened to about 5 of those before I made my pick of Axiom M80's. After that many sessions I would have most of them blurred together and wouldn't trust any notes I might have made.

Are you any closer on your decision?


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



jakewash said:


> I've only listened to about 5 of those before I made my pick of Axiom M80's. After that many sessions I would have most of them blurred together and wouldn't trust any notes I might have made.
> 
> Are you any closer on your decision?


What do you think of your M-80's? Those are one's that I was interested in very early on, but little-to-no chance of hearing beforehand. Yeah some do blend together in my memory but that is why I have been posting my impressions of everything as I listen... helps me organize my thoughts and makes it easy to go back and refresh my memory. Plus the ones I really like remain clear, and those I maybe liked at first get a little lost as they don't hold up as I hear more.


----------



## jakewash

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I would sum them up as what you wrote about the Paradigm Studio 100's, best part is they cost way less. I like the forward sound the Paradigm's and Axiom have. Some call it bright, I call it forward, in that the mids and highs seem to be more pronounced, but when you look on a graph of the response curves they are both very flat speakers. To me they play the music the way it was recorded good or bad.

If you check out their forum you will find an audition list where forum members let you come to their house and have listen. That's what I did, spent a few hours over at his place comparing many different models. It was a blast even if I didn't end up with the M80s.


----------



## Josuah

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I second Jake's suggestion to really try and find a place to audition some of the Internet direct brands through their forums. You've gone through a lot of excellent choices but your budget seems to be forcing you to compromise. Missing out on ID brands which tend to provide a better value might be something you regret later (that's how I felt about a year after picking up Monitor Audio S8's).

AV123 has a thread on their forum for finding places to audition. Salk's forum is on AudioCircle.

I didn't bother looking at the Axiom line myself because their published graphs show they fall off >15kHz, which is perfect for smaller or live rooms but I've got a large heavily treated room and want those frequencies.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Josuah said:


> I second Jake's suggestion to really try and find a place to audition some of the Internet direct brands through their forums. You've gone through a lot of excellent choices but your budget seems to be forcing you to compromise. Missing out on ID brands which tend to provide a better value might be something you regret later (that's how I felt about a year after picking up Monitor Audio S8's).
> 
> AV123 has a thread on their forum for finding places to audition. Salk's forum is on AudioCircle.
> 
> I didn't bother looking at the Axiom line myself because their published graphs show they fall off >15kHz, which is perfect for smaller or live rooms but I've got a large heavily treated room and want those frequencies.


I did. I listened to the Salk SongTowers, and Ascend Sierra's this weekend. :bigsmile:
Still want to hear the Rockets, but haven't looked for an audition yet.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*nearly attainable dream round*

*Speakerquest (Round 9)*
aka: the budget buster

The other day I went to listen to some speakers that were in the $5000 + range, and all I can say is WOW. If I were to spend that much money on a pair of fronts I could get almost everything I want out of a pair of speakers. Actually, they sounded like I thought a pair of $3000 speakers would sound like, when I started listening. Take all this with a huge shaker of salt because up to this point I had never heard a speaker that costs so *******’ much money! Forgive me if I gush...

*Aerial 7B* (≈$5000)

After the hi-fi guy finished fritzing around with the 7B’s getting them in exactly the right spot, micro adjusting one speaker, then listening and micro adjusting the other one... for about ten minutes after I had arrived. I had phoned ahead (the day before, and again about an hour before our appointment) I managed to get a little preview of the off axis sound as I wandered around looking at all the really expensive stuff that littered the room. I wasn’t familiar with whatever he had playing, and didn’t particularly care for it, but I will say that the sound remained relatively consistent as I walked around. He finally was satisfied and said they were ready... He had them set up with a 150 or 200wpc (can’t remember for sure) solid state amp to come close to what I would most likely be driving them with:

First up I put on The Beatles “Come Together.” Within seconds, I was about 8 or 9 years old, sitting on the orange corduroy couch my family had back in the 70’s; listening to the Abbey Road album that my Uncle had just given me for my birthday, on my Dads old tube amp through his classic Advent speakers ! It was an amazing experience... total time warp. While the 7B’s had all the warmth of the Advent/tube combo they sounded better. First note I wrote down was “now, that's what I am talkin’ about.” Bass is full, rich, smooth and detailed. Vocals are clear and smooth. I could feel the drum beats thudding off my chest. Highs were detailed and sharp but without a cutting edge. Okay, it was cranked up much louder than my normal listening level but I was enjoying it immensely. We turned it down a little and proceeded with “The End.” The drums were thick and meaty, I felt like I was stoned and I haven’t smoked weed in years! I was literally speechless. During the crescendo in this song I did notice that the upper mid section was coming off a bit forward. As I sat there listening, I kept thinking that these things image like a mother****er. 

I changed gears with Fela Kuti, and again noticed the impact of bass and kick drums along with the clarity in the low end. Double kicks were separate and distinct. The brass came in and I thought that it had a slight edge to it. I thought that this was a “full range” speaker; dynamic but not “in your face” about it.

Erykah Badu was lush, warm and smooth on these Aerial’s. Bass went deep and stayed tight (and that is no small task with the first track on her Baduizm CD). Rim shot’s sounded like wood on metal. I also noted a nice separation of sound here. 

Grant Green had piano sounding natural, cymbals decaying nicely, and dead on guitar tone. In the beginning of “Idle Moments” (from the CD of the same name; same track I have been using when I refer to Grant Green) there is a very low and easy saxophone and very light vibraphone that I had never noticed before, and I’ve listened to this track at least 24 times since I started this search. Acoustic bass sounded woody and full. Easy hits on the snare drum sounded nearly perfect. The slight distortion on the guitar is present, and appropriate.

With Fu Manchu the 7B’s hold together nicely. Music here is full and detailed. Guitars, bass and drums are separate and distinct. There is a nice growl to the electric guitars, though not overly aggressive. I am starting to feel like this is a somewhat laid-back speaker.

I thought that this was a very nice looking speaker, conservative and classic in appearance. IMO this is a warm and musical speaker; I love the bass; it does nearly everything quite well, the time warp trick included . * I should add that, for me, the Aerial 7B had what I would call a nostalgic sound to it; it brought back warm and fuzzy memories and I would be tempted to use that same phrase to describe its sound though “fuzzy” would have to be interpreted in the best possible sense (not indistinct, just not hard edged)

As I was listening to the Aerials the shop owner kept asking me questions in-between songs and listening to what I was playing. About half way into Fela Kuti and a lot of chin scratching he tapped me on the shoulder and asked if I would like to hear something else after this one, of course I said, “sure.” Turns out this guy sees his customers as a challenge... to match up speakers and equipment to the listener. I think this is a very cool approach, and I think he does a good job of it, judging by what he unboxed for me to listen to...

*T+A Criterion TS 300* (≈ $5,500)

This is a German speaker company that designs and builds drivers, cabinets, and crossovers all in-house (if I remember correctly). The cabinets were molded MDF jobs with some sexy curves in the side pannels, and a dark walnut veneer. Nice looking cabinet, though I didn’t care for the “radiator grill” covering the front port.

The sound? in a word... awesome. Keep in mind that these were literally right out of the box. So if you believe in break-in (I do, to a certain extent, because there are moving parts involved) I imagine the sound would improve with a bit of time on them. The dealer said that they get drastically better, but I tend to doubt the “drastic” part of that statement. The Beatles started of this audition and I found the sound to be tight, impactful, and very fast in the bass. Detail was apparent throughout the musical spectrum. Cymbals sounded excellent, and crisp. The imaging on the TS 300’s was simply amazing. The speakers just disappeared, even when I opened my eyes it was very hard to think of the sound that was filling the room was coming from these two fairly thin towers.

Grant Green’s sound was right on. excellent tone on his guitar. Acoustic bass extended very low and had that woody resonant quality that you hear and feel when you hear one live in a small jazz club. Piano sounded very natural and conveyed a percussive quality when keys were struck. The tone on the saxophone was outstanding. Again the imaging and soundstage were opened up in front of me so that I could literally locate the positioning of the instruments; Piano toward the back and left of center, sax mid stage just right of center... The snare sound was nearly perfect.

Erykah Badu sounded incredible on these T+A speakers. Crisp; detailed; tight; deep; impact; dynamic; Wow. Her vocal was sexy, lush and full. Rim shots were wood on metal accurate though they came across slightly forward than on the Aerials. Bass was very full and controlled.

This is a different animal than the Aerial’s. More dynamic, more detailed, and not as warm. The TS-300 takes what I liked best about the Hawk and adds it to the best of the Studio 100, while I would liken the 7B’s to more of a Focus 220ish sound, but much better. Both speakers had truly amazing imaging capabilities. 

If this is what you get for $5g or more, consider me officially impressed. Is it worth the price? ...hard to say. You decide for yourself. The differences between these two candidates and the < $3g speakers I have heard, lies mostly in imaging and attention to the depth and control of low bass frequencies; improved impact; more fullness of the midrange; and detail with out sounding harsh or bright. I would love to own either of these expensive (to me) speakers. Neither one is perfect, but they both have nearly everything that I want out of my fronts, even though they each have a different sound. The only significant compromise, from my perspective, would be price (and that IS significant).

_*Edit:* I have been searching the web for any information about these excellent sounding speakers (TS-300) and have not been able to find much, most of what I found has been in German or Russian. Based on the size and weight of these speakers, something didn't quite jive with their price tag to me. I was tipped off, by another forum member, about potential for them being overpriced in the states because of the weak dollar and strong euro and i am certain that this has increased their price. Another concern that I had, besides currency conversion, is the limited distribution and availability state side. This thought popped into my head as soon as the dealer said that he was one of only 4 dealers in the country. Because almost nobody else has them, their price can skyrocket unchecked (basic law of supply and demand), especially since they are such a fantastic sounding speaker. The third factor that is affecting their price is shipping costs, everything is made in Germany and shipped on an individual basis as far (as I can tell) so this is also a significant contribution to their cost. So, after a considerable amount of digging and translating languages I found a site that also had pricing information for some of the Dynaudio speakers, including the Focus 220's which cary a msrp of $3000 USD. Based on that number, and compared with what the same place was charging for the TS 300's they should actually cost $3200 USD !!!!!!!
_


----------



## Josuah

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Looking forward to your opinions on the Sierras and Songtowers. Those are both speakers I had on my short list before picking up a pair of Minis.

I've also been led to believe that the Aeriel 7Bs are similar to the Onix Reference 3s in terms of quality, perhaps a bit better because of the different crossover. (The 7B has it's woofer cross over at 400Hz, while the Ref 3 has its midrange woofer at 2.5kHz.) I'd love 20Ts--a ribbon at 3.5kHz and up is amazing--but they are expensive! So I got the Minis.  Now I just need some good gear for the Minis.

The retail prices are out of your price range, but if you find used ones they might fall into it. Worth a thought.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Two ID companies*

*Speakerquest (Round 10)*

I have been anxiously waiting to hear these two speakers for quite a few weeks now, and this last weekend, I had the opportunity, thanks to two very nice fellow enthusiasts that opened their homes and allowed a schmuck like me to come in and listen to their gear. Thank you Curtis and David, both of you helped to make this weekend fun and educational for me. You guys both have very sweet setups.

Before I get going I want to refer you all to the last speakers that I listened to ($5,000 range), literally a day or two before I heard these two far less expensive speakers, so my ears were completely jaded, but I will try and forget that ear-altering experience and be fair as I write this...



*Ascend Acoustics - Sierra-1* ($848 natural, $898 Black)



Saturday morning 10:30 am (after about three weeks of trying to find a good time for both of us) I got to hear the Sierra’s. They looked great in natural Bamboo, construction was seamless. They were a little bigger than I thought they would be, but still comfortably small if size is an issue for you. I think Curtis has 200 watts of ICE power behind his Sierra’s, and I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong (at least I hope he will) suffice it to say there was plenty of power behind these things. We ran them full range at first so I could get a feel for them on their own, and added his HSU Research sub into the mix (crossed at 60 Hz, maybe 80, forgot to write that down) after I ran through my test tracks...

With Grant Green the first thing I noticed was that the cymbals were clear, though not overly crisp. The tone on the guitar is nice and the light distortion is just audible; not accentuated. The Sierra’s are imaging as well as many of the speakers I listened to at twice their price. I noticed that while the acoustic bass sounded good it was not as full and resonant as I like to hear it. The tone on the saxophone is reedy and smooth, very nice representation. Piano tone is good but not baby grand realistic to my ears, it is just missing a little something that I can’t quite put my finger on, deep resonance from the piano body maybe? Maybe just residual effects from the high dollar sound... I thought the Sierras had a good balance of sound through the range, nothing was jumping out at me. The vibes came a little forward but not too much and sounded accurate. I thought that their overall sound on this was pretty good, but maybe a little closed, at least not as open as some that I have heard.

I think I put in Fela Kuti next, not sure but at least I am going to talk about it next. I noticed right away that the bass I was hearing was not the full depth of the recording, though what I was hearing sounded good. Drums and cymbals were tight. Brass felt slightly forward and clear, not at all harsh. I thought the Sierra’s did a really good job with the horns, there is a section of this recording where there are probably four or five horns playing at once not sure what they all are but I could distinctly hear an alto saxophone, and at least one trumpet, if not two, maybe a trumpet and a coronet, whatever. My point is that they are separate and distinct and sound like brass.

The guitars in the Beatles “come together” sound great, but vocals sound a little thin to me. The bass guitar has a nice punch to it and sounds pretty full though it does not wrap around me like a blanket when there is a thick layer of it. During “the End” the drums are pretty full for such a small speaker. The sound got slightly indistinct during the crescendo of this song, but only slightly.

Erykah Badu was up next and it is obvious to me that this little speaker is not even going to try for the lowest note, you can hear it’s overtones but the meat of that low, low bass note just isn’t there. (When we replayed this song later with the HSU sub, the song really filled out and opened up, capturing everything really well.) Vocals were lush and smooth, mid-bass was solid, rim shots sounded good, a touch soft to my ear though. I can hear the sound of the rim shot ripple through the drum head. That‘s the first time I noticed that... cool.

More cowbell? Yes please. The Fu Manchu song I have been using has a little cowbell in it but for some reason it sounded too soft. Guitars are crunchy, and bass is full, though they do seem to blend together a bit. (with this song, $1500 and up seems to be the cut off for separation of bass and guitar, could be because of recording quality or the fact that they are playing the same thing and it is meant to blend together and therefor very hard to reproduce them as separate and distinct ...thought they did a good job of the same task with brass earlier...)

Just for fun, I brought along Stanton Moore and started without the sub, but added it in the mix shortly into the song. Baritone sax sounded really good, cymbal work was distinct and had nice decay. Again the addition of the sub really seemed to open up the sound of the Sierra’s strangely both in the high and low frequencies. I had also brought some MC 900 ft Jesus to try out and the Sierras + sub handled it well. They sounded “computer” tight. with electronic cymbals and provided a nice enveloping atmosphere. Their imaging really shines when played with a sub.

Are they worth twice their price? I doubt it. But they are a steal at under a grand. I would highly recommend using them with a sub, the removal of the low bass frequencies seemed to allow more power to get to the tweeter and really open these speakers up.



*Salk Sound- SongTower* (≈$1500)



Sunday, I went to a local Salk Sound customer’s place to hear the SongTowers. I had the pleasure of meeting another enthusiast, named David, and his 6 or 7 year old son who was sporting a classic Led Zeppelin t-shirt and proved to be just as enthusiastic about the SongTowers as his father, at one point proclaiming “I like these much better than your old speakers, Dad.” David turned out to be a very nice guy and had a great collection of music that he streamed through a “slingbox” and receiver, and ultimately into his speakers. Fortunately he had a few of the songs that I have been using for auditions in his collection, and as he didn’t have a CD player hooked up we managed to improvise with a couple of substitutes.

Before I forget, I have to comment right up front that these are some beautiful looking speakers. I am a wood guy and absolutely love the natural beauty of real wood finishes. I have seen several pictures of Jim Salks work on the internet but they really do not come close to the aesthetic value that these speakers have. Way better looking than 90% of the speakers I have listened to, and as nice or nicer than the other 10%. I also liked the magnetic grills, nice touch and practical.

I am really glad that David had the Beatles “Abbey Road” on hand because out of everything that I use to evaluate speakers, if this one doesn’t sound good, I am not interested. And sound good it did. Bass guitar came through tight and accurate, but seemed to be lacking a little fullness on the bottom. Vocals were brilliant, not forward, not recessed, but just right, in perfect balance with the rest of the music. Cymbals are clear and distinct. I can hear finger slides on strings. They are also exhibiting a pretty impressive soundstage. The drums in “the End” sound really good, but the guitars sound excellent. At the crescendo nothing is lost or blended together.

I was also able to hear Erykah Badu on these, not so little babies (once again they are a bit bigger than I thought). I knew before I heard them that they only extend down to 40 Hz so I did not expect to be impressed with the low, low bass... and I wasn’t. I was, however, pleasantly surprised with how low that they did go. (To my ear that 40 Hz number may be a little on the conservative side as I think they realistically get into at least the upper maybe mid 30’s, these notes do drop a fair amount in volume but they seem to be there.) Bass was full and controlled with this bass challenging music, but they failed to get the very bottom. Rim shots sounded nice, not too forward; and cymbals were crisp and accurate. Once again the vocals were very, very nice. I have been using “smooth and lush” when I like the sound of Erykahs vocals and it posses those qualities here, but they are not accentuated in any way. Instead, they sound very accurate and natural.

I listened to a little Stan Getz w/ Astrud Gilberto singing the classic and timeless “Girl From Ipanema,” and got the chills (a very good thing). The piano sounded great, and the tone on the saxophone was velvety and rich, awesome. I think that smooth, easy, acoustic music is what these towers excel at.

Instead of Fu Manchu we tried a little Nirvana. They sounded very clean (unlike the actual appearance of the band ). Vocals were right-on soaring over the top of the music. Drums sounded really good, and electric guitars sounded crunchy though maybe a little thin and not as forward as I remember them. Everything is separate and distinct

I was impressed with the nice open sound of U2’s “One,” and the outstanding vocal of Diana Krall. Her “All or Nothing at All” is a very nice recording and I can see why so many people use her music to talk about a speakers performance. That being said, this will be the last time that I use it . Acoustic bass sounded very nice but I thought that it lacked a little body to the sound. Piano once again sounded very nice, and guitar tone was excellent. We also listened to a little Charles Mingus, but it wasn’t a recording with which I am familiar so I will only note that the variety of horns here were all distinct, but we were talking over the music at this point and had to get on with our day, my audition was done. I wish I could comment more on the SongTowers performance with brass as I think that these are tricky instruments to reproduce accurately... Oh well, my guess if that they would do well.

I have heard that this speaker is “all about the mid-range,” and that is unequivocally, a true statement. It is really a guitar, vocal and saxophone kind of speaker. It seems to capture the tone, and nuances of the instruments better than most other speakers do. I imagine that they would be truly amazing with acoustic singer songwriter type stuff. Without hesitation I would say that this easily the best $1500 speaker I have heard. Some of the +$2000 speakers do some things better but not many have this nice of a midrange. Very nice speaker, great value, but don’t expect ultra-low bass, or dog whistle highs.
__________________


----------



## jakewash

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Josuah said:


> I didn't bother looking at the Axiom line myself because their published graphs show they fall off >15kHz, which is perfect for smaller or live rooms but I've got a large heavily treated room and want those frequencies.


You should still get those frequencies. I have found they drop off about 18khz in my cushy/soft room. Measured with test tones and SPL meter.

On another note, have you had your hearing checked? Seriously, you may find you can't even hear above the 15khz range anway, I know a number of people like this. I did and found I can still hear just above 17khz but so little happens way up there I haven't noticed anything missing, but then again if I couldn't hear it in the first place i wouldn't know it was there. I have some friends that spent endless hours searching for the best upper end they could find, only when I suggested they have a listen to test tones through my system they lost the sound about 15khz. They then went and had a professional hearing exam. My father can't hear anything above 6khz. Just a thought.


----------



## Josuah

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Thanks for the info on the Sierra-1s and Songtowers. They kind of match up with my expectations, not having heard them myself. I considered the Sierra-1s to be budget bookshelves (my "budget") that would still satisfy and the Songtowers to be one of the best introductory full-range floorstanders (my "introductory").

Haven't done thorough high frequency hearing detection, but I can hear 15kHz (on a test tone disc). I just figured why consider the Axioms when my budget is higher and I don't need to compromise on that.


----------



## PhotoByMark

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I am still considering the Axioms. Anybody here own them or actually heard them. I suspect that I would be quite happy with them. Compared to what I have now, anything is better. LOL. Also have been looking at used Magnepans 1.2 or 1.6 and been looking at Martin Logans. I do want to listen to Paradigm, Martin Logan and Magnepan before I pull the trigger. I do not live in the city, so hard to make time to go listen and well, that is why I have not bought anything yet.


----------



## jakewash

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

I have Axioms and love them, but the used ones you are looking at, IMO, sound a touch smoother than the Axioms. You should drop by Axioms' site and check for someone to give you an audition so you can hear them first hand and go from there. I know there are some in Texas just not sure how close.


----------



## PhotoByMark

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

Thanks Jake.


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

*Round 11*

Earlier this past week I went down to visit a good friend of mine in San Diego, and along the way I had to make two stops. The first one was at the Stone Brewery, makers of some of the finest beer in the country. I bought a t-shirt and a couple of big bottles of their “Old Guardian” barley wine to enjoy later on with my friend. The second stop was at the Acoustic Zen headquarters. I had been hearing good things about their Adagio speakers, and had a couple of people recommend them to me. I tried contacting my nearest dealer several times by phone and never got an answer or a call back, so I contacted Acoustic Zen directly. I wound up speaking and meeting with Robert Lee himself, and he turned out to be a great guy. Very helpful, and very proud of his speakers, and rightfully so:

*Acoustic Zen Adagio*: (msrp≈$4300)


Robert played through a few demo tracks before he let me pop in my music. Not a problem for me as I was busy looking around at all the empty shells that would become Adagio’s and Adagio Jr.’s once they were wired up and had their drivers installed. All of the finishes were beautiful. My two favorites were the “walnut burl”, and “golden burl.” The pictures on their web site give you a pretty good idea of the finish. They are a fairly large speaker, compared to the ones I have been listening to, about the same width as the Aerial 7B but standing a bit taller. I should also add that I listened to these speakers in a sectioned off space of the warehouse, so there was a ceiling about 20 ft up and only a fabric covered divider for the left wall, and wide open in back. Not an ideal listening room, but enough to get the gist of their sound, and range. On with the really important stuff...

Playing Grant Green, I first noticed their imaging was very nice. The acoustic bass sounded full and tight, not accentuated or pushed forward but accurate. These speakers typify what I keep getting out of the Transmission Line cabinets, especially with acoustic bass. Full, resonant, hollow bodied sound, just like the real deal. I felt that the tone of the guitar was excellent, maybe a bit forward on the higher notes. These speakers sport a unique (to me at least) circular ribbon tweeter, and they excel at reproducing cymbals. Crisp, clear, and real sounding. Snare drum also sounds very good on the Adagio’s. Piano resonates nicely and has a percussive quality to it. As with a few other speakers, these reveal the tape hiss from the original analog recording, it is not annoying or anything, just present. Saxophones are reedy and smooth, you can feel the low notes of the sax. Lots of detail with these speakers. When the vibes come in they sound realistic and have a nice tone.

The highs are crisp, tight and clear with Fela Kuti. Once again these speakers prove outstanding with cymbal work. The bass has some impact here, I would imagine that it would be more in a better room. Brass is handled nicely, doesn’t come across harsh except when three horns are blaring at the same time at loud volume (I know from experience that this would most likely be a harsh sound in real life, too). Double kick drum beats are separate and distinct. I noticed, for the first time, the sound of one of those gourd and wooden bead shaker-things (not sure what they are actually called). Trumpet sounded natural during the solo, nice tone.

Erykah Badu’s deep bass was nearly all there, the Adagios seemed to only miss the absolute lowest note. Rim shots were definitely wood on metal real but I thought they were a little too forward. Her vocal was nice, smooth, separate, and distinct. Bass remained tight to the bottom of it’s range, no flab here. Again I noticed the amount of detail these speakers reveal.

With the Beatles “Come Together” drums stand out with distinct clarity, and cymbal work is top notch. Surprisingly I feel like the bass is subdued on this song. It is still tight but it just doesn’t blanket like it should. I think this is a direct result of the lousy room acoustics and ultra high ceiling. Fingers have audible slides on guitar and bass strings. Vocals sound great, and guitars sound excellent. Overall there is a good balance to the sound of this song. “The End” sounds good on the Adagios, nice imaging, and great drums. However, the vocal sounds a little edgy and guitars sound a little loud. Could be my ears are beginning to feel some fatigue? listening levels were a bit louder than usual for me, so this may very well be the case.

Next I tried Fu Manchu and they sounded good and _MEAN_! Very nice aggression on the guitars, vocals were slightly back in the mix as they are meant to be. It is easy to separate the bass and guitar sounds. The Adagio’s did very well with heavy rock.

The last song I brought for this audition was “The Girl From Ipanema.” I got the chills from this song on the SongTowers, so I wanted to see if the Adagios could duplicate that mark of midrange magic. The male vocal at the beginning of the song was excellent, as was Astrud’s. Guitar and cymbals were tight and detailed. The saxophone of Stan Getz was nice here, but ultimately failed to give me the chills. In all fairness Astruds vocal did make the hair stand up on the back of my neck, but it didn’t quite have the sweetness of the Salks.

After I ran through my tracks, Robert played a couple more that really showed off the strengths of the Adagios. One of them was a drum track that was simply awesome; very fast, tight, and realistic response on drums. I think reproduction of drums and percussion are the single most impressive achievement of this speaker. Another track he played was an electronic piece that illustrated the range of the speakers very nicely. And finally a very clean recording of acoustic bass that sounded very real indeed, probably what this speaker does second best would be acoustic bass.

These were certainly some fantastic sounding speakers, and I don’t think that anyone would accuse them of being too warm. I don’t think they would be considered cold and overly analytical either. They are a revealing speaker, and capable of playing very loud. I found the circular ribbons (made by Acoustic Zen) to be smoother than the linear ones that I have heard. The “under hung” mid woofers were fun to watch when they really get moving, reproducing drum sounds and acoustic bass among the best that I have heard. Electric bass, however, seemed to be missing some of the fullness that would most likely improve in a better room. Over all, I would say that these are a technically excellent speaker, that for some reason I did not quite connect with. Could be for lots of reasons: 2 hr drive before listening, so many other speakers rolling around in my head, not a very good listening room, high expectations... If you are in the market for speakers in this price range I would highly recommend that you audition the Adagios, you may just want to take some home with you. I know that I would like a second listen...


----------



## PT800

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*

It just maybe that the speakers you're going to great lengths to find don't exist in your current price range. They certainly didn't exist in your original price range.

It might turn out that you won't hear what you're looking for until you get to $10K/ea or more.:scratch:


----------



## Funkmonkey

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



PT800 said:


> It just maybe that the speakers you're going to great lengths to find don't exist in your current price range. They certainly didn't exist in your original price range.
> 
> It might turn out that you won't hear what you're looking for until you get to $10K/ea or more.:scratch:


That is a scary thought, though most likely true.... :foottap:


----------



## Funkmonkey

Additional information about the T+A Criterion TS-300:

I have been searching the web for any information about these excellent sounding speakers and have not been able to find much, most of what I found has been in German or Russian. Based on the size and weight of these speakers, something didn't quite jive with their price tag to me. I was tipped off, by another forum member, about potential for them being overpriced in the states because of the weak dollar and strong euro and i am certain that this has increased their price. Another concern that I had, besides currency conversion, is the limited distribution and availability state side. This thought popped into my head as soon as the dealer said that he was one of only 4 dealers in the country. Because almost nobody else has them, their price can skyrocket unchecked (basic law of supply and demand), especially since they are such a fantastic sounding speaker. The third factor that is affecting their price is shipping costs, everything is made in Germany and shipped on an individual basis as far (as I can tell) so this is also a significant contribution to their cost. So, after a considerable amount of digging and translating languages I found a site that also had pricing information for some of the Dynaudio speakers, including the Focus 220's which cary a msrp of $3000 USD. Based on that number, and compared with what the same place was charging for the TS 300's they should actually cost $3200 USD !!!!!!! At that price these speakers would be a bargain. So knowing what I know now I am half tempted to see if I can get them for that price. If I were more confrontational, I would insist on it, but me being me I will probably just leave it alone and post this so everyone else is aware of things to watch out for.


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: Speaker quest (Final Round?)*

*Round 12*
(second listens and a couple new ones)

I will be using some new music, a lot of it, and a couple of tracks that I have been using already that have proven extremely beneficial to my evaluations. I may not listen to all of them on each speaker (24 tracks total) but they cover a pretty wide musical spectrum and recording quality varies almost as much. For the most part the music I picked is on the upbeat side. Makes the process more positive for me and I think that this music is most likely to reveal flaws in a speakers overall performance.

I am going to stick with the order I listened during auditions, starting off with a couple of seconds...

*Paradigm Studio 100*

I still like the bass of this speaker, it reaches pretty deep and has nice impact. With the percussive slap style bass you can hear the strings rattling on the neck of the upright with ease. My second listen had a few bright moments where some tracks were rendered thin, or jangley. A couple of songs that usually have a huge expansive atmospheric quality to them sounded a bit narrow on the 100’s, but other recordings had very nice imaging. My original assessment of this speaker still stands with me... more suited to home theater and movies than to music. 

*Dynaudio Focus 220*

Right off I felt more relaxed with this speaker than the studio 100. All the edginess was gone, more of a relaxing listen. Trumpet peaks were more smooth, mid bass was not as punchy, much more of a smooth even sound. Maybe too smooth, though. I missed the sharp highs, but liked the even mids of the Focus 220’s. I still found the low bass to be a little indistinct, not really bad or anything, just a little too slow when pushed to it’s lower limits with music like Beenie Man (dancehall Reggae). They did much better with jazz, rock, and blues. This is still a good all-arounder, but a little expensive for it’s performance if you ask me.

Those two speakers pretty much bookend the sound I am looking for, but neither one is right for me. I asked the salesman if he had anything that was in the same price range and had a sound kind of in between those two. He smiled and directed me to...

*Focal Chorus 836-V:* (≈$3000)









Trumpets sounded nice here, a little more edge than the Focus 220’s, and not as much as the Studio 100’s. Strings rattled properly against the neck of the acoustic bass when slapped around. Overall sound was clear, and well defined, with a nice balance. A couple of songs in I wonder how high these go, because to me, they sound like they are rolled off at the top with cymbal rides, coming across not quite real. Vocals sounded good, electric bass had a full blanketing sound, not overly punchy but had some impact. Fu Manchu sounded really good on these speakers, guitars were thick and mean. The male vocals of Bill Withers sounded natural. Erykah Badu sounded good on the Focal’s, so did the J.B.’s. Bass tightness was better than the Focus 220’s, depth seemed about the same. They did a very nice job picking up the overtones of electric bass. The tone of Wes Montgomery’s guitar was good but not great. One of the new tracks I brought along was “like a rolling stone” by Jimi Hendrix from the “Jimi plays Monterey” CD. Not a the best recording, but it sounded really bad on these speakers. A couple of songs that I included just to see if i would get the chills, came close on one but not the others. For some reason the Focal 836-V seemed to handle male vocals better than female. They really did peg the “in between” sound (Focus 220 & Studio 100) that I asked for and I liked the overall sound here. Aesthetically, I didn’t care for the “chevron” shaped grills, or the French glitzy feel I got from these speakers. I like the looks of Focals higher-end Electra line much, much better...

Of the three, I actually liked the overall sound of the Focals the best (for music), and the understated look of the Dynaudio's. But, I don’t think any of these three will find a place in my home. If I had a dedicated HT setup, I would seriously be considering the Studio 100’s.

_____________

That was Monday. On Tuesday, as you may already know I had an appointment for some more seconds.....

*Usher Be-718 “Tiny Dancer”*

First off I really like the way that brass sounds with the Be tweeter, crisp and clear but not edgy or piercing. Cymbal work also comes across nicely. I notice that acoustic bass seems to miss the lowest notes, today, I did not notice this before. If they are present, they are several dB’s lower than they should be. This wouldn’t be any problem whatsoever, if these were used in conjunction with a sub. Listening to “Come Together” I really miss the fullness of the larger floor standers, but feel that they do a good job overall. I got the same feeling of missing the fullness with Fu Manchu. “Ain’t No Sunshine,” by Bill Withers sounded excellent on the Ushers, vocals were full and rich and a big open space was created for the sound-stage. What ever these things lack in depth they make up for in speed, they did a good job separating the bass and kick drum beats, even when they were close together. Somehow the mids started to sound a little on the lean side as I listened to more music on the “Tiny Dancers.” Imaging was good with most music though not great. After hearing the higher-end speakers these are not as impressive as the first listen, though I still think they are quite good for their size. In case anybody wonders, I like them more than the Ascend Sierra’s but I think that the Sierra’s would be a better value.


*Era D-14*

I wanted to give these a fair shake, because the last time I had listened was right after the Dali Icon’s and I had the impression that their highs were lacking. This time I thought they actually sounded pretty nice. And speaking of pretty, they are very easy on the eyes, high WAF with the Era’s. Very evenly balanced presentation here, everything sounded good across the board. Forgiving, laid-back speaker. Imaging was pretty mediocre, sound was easy to locate as coming out of the speakers. Nothing made me say wow, and nothing sounded really bad. This could be a good, or bad thing depending on your perspective, I want something a bit more dynamic than the Era D-14.

*Totem Hawk*

This is a hard one to write for a lot of reasons. One, because I still really like this speaker. Two, because I have heard better ones. Three because it does so much really well, and I have found a weakness. The Totem Hawk really delivers a big musical sound out of a small very handsome looking cabinet. I have heard that many people feel that Totem has a bright sound to their speakers and until I listened to them a third time I didn’t have any idea what they were talking about. The Hawks are fairly inefficient speakers, and the low end suffers most if they are not driven with adequate power. The first time I heard them was with 200 watts behind them, the second and third were with 75 watts (if I remember correctly). I still would not consider the Hawk to be a “bright” speaker, though after my last listen I would say that they are indeed voiced with an accent on the high end. The Thiels come to mind as “bright”, The Hawks are detailed and accurate with almost everything I threw at them. Imaging is some of the best at this price. Cymbals, snare drums and pianos sound very real on the Hawks. Vocals also sound very good. Both Erykah Badu and Fu Manchu sound excellent. Guitar tone is right on, and so is the sound of the brass instruments. Bass is fast and tight, though not as full bodied as the more expensive speakers I have heard. One of the new tracks I listened to was “Even After All” by Finley Quaye, it is really a beautiful song and I included it as a song that might give me the chills but it proved to have an additional value. The bass is pretty deep and very full; the Hawks were doing fine, in this department, with every song before this one. I noticed a little bit of distortion while there was a sustained bass note, and then a kick drum beat in the song. Walking up close you could almost see the driver wanting to suck back in but immediately kicking back out to cover the kick drum, producing a distorted “ugthmp” rather than a clean “thump.” It was subtle and only on this song. Overall I still think this is a great speaker, and if I have to compromise on price this may be a good one to settle on. My main concern with the Hawk is that I know I would want to upgrade in a couple of years or sooner. They offered to lend me the pair for an in home audition and i may have to take them up on that. Between the SongTowers and the Hawks, it is a very tough call for me. They both have their strengths and they both have weaknesses.



*Dali Helicon 300: *(msrp≈$3000)


A couple of people have suggested that I listen to something in the Dali Helicon line and the shop I was at had a pair of of 300’s that had been knocked over by a customer and then repaired. The 400, which I am more interested in, was not in stock, and the dealer told me that these were an older model that has since been updated. Neither of us were sure what the revision included. The Helicon 300’s that I listened to were a similar size to the Usher Be-718’s, and PSB Synchrony’s that had I listened to before. Kind of largish for a “bookshelf” speaker, I guess this size is more commonly referred to as “stand mount.” The cabinets and finish on these Dali’s was top notch; very, very nice looking.
I started with “the Girl From Ipanema” and thought that the male vocal had nice resonance, and instrumentation was crisp, clear and natural sounding. Once again the ribbon tweeters provided ultra clear and crisp cymbal reproduction, but this time without any harshness. So far only the ribbons have provided a truly accurate sound on cymbals. Wes Montgomery’s guitar tone was spot-on. Excellent separation of sound and nice balance. Bongo drums on “Sunny” sounded like hands slapping the skins. This music was very easy to listen to on the Dali’s. Finley Quaye’s “even after all” sounded good here, the guitar tone was exceptional (again), and the bass seemed to reach fairly deep (at least as deep as the Ushers) though was lacking a little fullness (like the Ushers). This lack of fullness seems to be the major difference between the stand-mount and floor standers, they reach almost as deep but lack the body of the floor standers. Miles Davis’ trumpet sounded real, on “All of You,” so did the sax but that did get a little piercing on some of the runs. Slap-style, upright bass string percussive effects sounded good with Medeski, Martin and Wood. The actual bass notes sounded recessed though. With John Lee Hooker everything sounded good, standouts being guitar tone and cymbals, but overall nice balance to the sound. When I played “Come Together” I again missed the fullness of bass and the low end of it, though upper to mid-bass section sounded very good, providing the blanketing feeling that I look for. Guitars sounded really good again, and vocals seemed to be slightly back in the mix like they should be with this song. Fu Manchu sounded good but the high guitar notes were a little piercing. On “ain’t no sunshine”, Bill Withers, when the strings come in they sound excellent, and his vocal sounds quite good here too. Erykah Badu sounds good, except the missing ultra-low notes. Everything else sounded pretty good on these speakers, the Pretenders had a nice little sparkle to their sound, and they did a good job with atmospherics when fed electronic music.
I liked this speaker, though I still want deeper bass from my fronts. I don’t know if I am just getting used to the ribbon tweeter sound or if the Helicons do a better job implementing it, but they sounded really nice to me. I have come to the realization that if you want truly accurate cymbal reproduction, ribbons are the only way to go, they get the sizzle that everything else seems to fall just short of, soft domes being the worst at this singular aspect of sound. This does come at a price though, as every single ribbon I have heard has had at least one harsh or piercing moment with either brass, or with high electric guitar notes. These Dali’s are no exception, though they really are fantastic speakers. Now I really want to hear the 400... or even the 800!


*Salk Veracity HT3*(starting at $4499)








not the actual ones I heard today but I love this veneer :T

As a result of my correspondence with Jim Salk regarding his SongTowers, and our resultant conversation, he suggested that I give a listen to a pair of HT3’s, and helped me set up an audition. He said flat out that he didn’t want me to buy a pair, because they were well out of my price range, and then added that the HT3 was the speaker that he had developed for himself. He also thought that the HT3 was exactly what I was looking for, and that listening to it would provide a good baseline for my ongoing search... Well Jim, you were right, the HT3’s are pretty much exactly what I am looking for.

So, today I went over to another Salk customer’s house armed with a CD containing a revised edition of the last one I used. I cut back a few songs that I felt were sonically redundant to some of the other material, and brought back “rim shot” because I just had to hear how well the HT3’s would handle it’s depth. I thought it was kind of funny when after I had run through all the tracks, Gary (the owner), asked me “What was track 9 ?! The bass in that one went really low.” Gary had his HT3’s set up with a new Yamaha HT receiver (don’t know the model) that put out 140 watts/channel. Though he had a sub hooked up we did not use it, he said it only got used for movies and that it was too slow to keep up with the HT3’s... 

I started with Mile Davis and noted that the tone of his trumpet was very nice, acoustic bass sounded good and the saxophone was right on. Cymbals sounded crisp and clean... sounds familiar right? Well a few minutes into this selection I realized how engaging these speakers were. They have a really nice, balanced sound. Piano has the percussive quality that some speakers don’t get right, brushed snare drum sounds great and is distinct, and clear. Nothing is coming forward, everything is staying in it’s place! Wes Montgomery proved to be a very pleasurable listen on the HT3’s. Since nothing came forward on the last track, I didn’t expect anything to come forward on this one either, but something did... The subtleties. The tone on the guitar was excellent, classic Wes. Kick drum had a nice little punch to it in this song, and cymbals again were sounding really nice. The bongos had the distinct sound of thick hands slapping a skin stretched over a drum, very realistic sound. Next up was Stan Getz, “Girl From Ipanema.” The male vocal at the beginning is smooth and natural sounding, and I notice that the bass is nice and full. When Astrud starts to sing the hair on the back of my neck stands up and I get a little chill flash, her vocal is velvety smooth and inviting (I wrote “soooo, nice”) All the subtleties and nuances of this song are right there, and the imaging is starting to impress me. Then the saxophone comes in and... nice job Jim! The reason this song came to be on my speaker test disk is because the SongTowers gave me a little chill when that sax came in, the HT3’s gave me the whole body version! One or two other speakers have made the hair stand up on the back of my neck but this was full blown chills.  As I sat there basking in the warmth of the rest of this song I managed to note how nice the resonance and sustain was on the piano. Medeski, Martin and Wood were next with some more upbeat contemporary Jazz. The percussive slap bass sounded very good here, as did the Hammond organ. The most significant thing I noticed during this track was the depth that was here, and I hadn’t noticed on any of the other speakers I played this song on last time out. Also deserving of mention was the sound of the light clicks of the drumsticks as they hit the edge of the snare, not a full on rim shot, but a more subtle rhythmic accent to the beat.

The fifth song was “Come Together,” and it came together very well indeed. (sorry ‘bout the pun, I couldn’t resist). I hadn’t heard this song sound this clean before. The sound was full and deliberate. Bass sounded truly great on the HT3’s. Vocal was dead center, drums heavily dampened, cymbals smooth yet crisp. Man, I wanted to crank this up loud to get the full impact of the music, but I didn’t want to impose too much. (Volume level was about where I would normally listen if I were just sitting there reading and listening to music, no where near the volume I would hit if I were left alone to really rock the house. Not a problem at all because these speakers have plenty to offer even at low volume levels. You could still have a conversation at the levels I was listening. I think about a notch or two louder than Gary usually listens, though. Unless his wife was not home because he did tell me that he liked older Metalilca...) Fu Manchu was next up and WOW- I got the chills from the FU !!!! Never thought that would happen... The guitars are Mean and crunchy, and the soaring high notes don’t ever get harsh or glaring, the bass is thick and fuzzed-out-full. Everything is distinct. Fu Manchu has not sounded better than right here. I added PJ Harvey “A Place Called Home,” onto my audition CD because of it’s nice full sound, and was glad that I did. This track is a very sonically dense song that tends to blend together on the speakers in my truck, but not here, she sounded very clear and natural. Everything was easy to distinguish, you could sit there and dissect all the layers and instruments. PJ sounded really good on the Salks, which showed exceptional clarity and balance. The HT3’s ROCK!

Into the R&B section of my CD with “Ain't no Sunshine” and Bill Withers vocal is sounding very, very good. His vocal has a little bit of echo on it which has the effect of making the room feel much bigger than it is, opening up a huge soundstage. The strings come in sounding very nice as well, and kick drums also sound good. At this point I thought to myself, “these are going to be very hard to beat.” Erykah Badu’s “Rimshot” came on and I got the chills again!!! (They should give you a blanket if you buy these speakers, because you will need it) The HT3’s dig deep, very deep. You can hear every note but the absolute bottom, and that one you can feel. The lowest of the other speakers I’ve heard missed the bottom one or two notes on this song, these guys missed the bottom 1/2 note. The lowest of the low in this song is unnaturally low and you can tell it’s there, even if you cannot exactly hear it. (It’s got to be down around 20 Hz, but that is totally just a guess) Rim shots sounded great, but truth be told I wasn’t paying much attention to them I was too busy wiping the drool of my chin from the bass response to this song. “Apple tree” started up and I regained a little composure (Yes, I am exaggerating a bit but the depth and control of the bass is impressive) to note that her vocal was full and lush in every sense of those words. Again I noted that the bass was outstanding; clear and tight. I included “the Grunt” by the J.B.’s to listen how they handle a lot of brass at once, and they performed admirably. This recording is not great, as with much of James Brown’s work, but I can hear details like a faint echo on the horns (either from the room, or an effect added to the recording) that I had not noticed before. Brass sounds really good here. There is a (usually) shrill note at the very beginning of this song, and again in the middle, that was not shrill on the HT3’s, it was in tune, and not shrill.

Finley Quaye “even after all” gave the Hawks a moment of distortion in the bass, and you can hear the challenging part, but not the flop. This song is just one of those beautiful melodies that makes you feel a little sad and good all at the same time, and all that emotion comes through on the Salks. Full, rich, smooth, clear.... sublime. A couple hits on the triangle ring through clean and clear. When the guitar came in I got the chills AGAIN (this is ridiculous, I want them) the tone is absolutely amazing. I ended with a little electronic music and an expansive atmosphere opened up in front and all around me. DJ Krush’s manufactured universe runs deep. Detailed highs, full, deep bass, pure sweet mids... these speakers leave very little room to want more.
:yay: :jump: :spend: :T :T :T


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## nova

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> Yes, "really tight, deep bass" seems to be where most speakers fall short, and what I want, along with the lush full mids, and the clear accurate highs. I am starting to think that I may have no choice but to go sub/sat.


First let me say that I've enjoyed reading about your experiences. Second, from the quote above, I'd suggest you listen to RBH 1266-SE (~$3000) or 1044-SE (~$2100). Sounds like either would (maybe) fit the bill, with the 1266 being slightly forward of neutral and the 1044 being slightly laid back,...'course I think they are both pretty neutral but that is the best way I could describe their differences. They are also a bit out of your $1500 - $2000 price range, but thats the nature of the game :bigsmile:

The biggest bass impression I get from the 1266 is,... bass does not disappear at low volumes.


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## pranab.beriya

hey please can u tell if dali Ikon with Dali 6, Dali 2, Dali Vocal 2, Dali sub.... makes a perfect Package or shall i buy something else in the same budget


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## JCD

Just a great review/summary.

For purely selfish reasons, I hope you never find "the one".

JCD


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## frosti7

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



Funkmonkey said:


> So far:
> Axioms are on my not-so-short list,
> along with Paradigm Studio series,
> B&W 683's & CM7's,
> Def-Tech mythos,
> Totem,
> Onix rpcket RS850,
> Revel F-12,
> Monitor Audio Silver RS-6/8,
> and the SVS MTS-01...


I Havent heard much speakers, but you should really stay away from B&W speakers under the 800 series..
I've heard the 683/684 in many occasion's and was always suprised of their mediocrity.

I've heard many of the new Klipsch models, which are the best speakers for HT i believe but i think they really lack mid range for stereo, and thier imaging is really bloated, and listening to them feels like the imaging disappears into the horizons, instead of being focused in-front of your head like the Dali Suite 2.8.

Anyway i would reccomend you to try to listen to Dali Suite 2.8, should be about 1000$ pair, i havent heard any speaker under 3,000 which comes close to it.


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## frosti7

I also noticed that you listened to Dali Ikon 6,
they are ok speakers, but really dont compare to the Suite (which priced the same)
I would rather compare the Suite's with Helicon 400 then the Ikon


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Speaker quest (Final Round?)*



Funkmonkey said:


> *Round 12*
> 
> 
> *Salk Veracity HT3*(starting at $4499)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> not the actual ones I heard today but I love this veneer :T
> 
> 
> ....... Full, rich, smooth, clear.... sublime. A couple hits on the triangle ring through clean and clear. When the guitar came in I got the chills AGAIN (this is ridiculous, I want them) the tone is absolutely amazing. I ended with a little electronic music and an expansive atmosphere opened up in front and all around me. DJ Krush’s manufactured universe runs deep. Detailed highs, full, deep bass, pure sweet mids... these speakers leave very little room to want more.
> :yay: :jump: :spend: :T :T :T


These are one of the nicest looking speakers that you have auditioned so far in my opinion, Its a shame that they cost what they do. Are you thinking that this pair may be the ones you get?
Fantastic reviews so far.:T


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## thxgoon

*Re: $1500-$2000 Fronts*



frosti7 said:


> I Havent heard much speakers, but you should really stay away from B&W speakers under the 800 series..
> I've heard the 683/684 in many occasion's and was always suprised of their mediocrity.


I've never heard those speakers myself but do know they have several happy owners. Buying speakers is a bit like buying a fine wine or micro brew. I love a good belgian ale or stout, but others like plain old domestic pilser. How does the saying go, one man's trash is another man's treasure or something??


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## jliedeka

Thanks for a great series of posts. They got me thinking about the ever present tension between desired quality and budget. Even though your goals are different from mine, it was educational to see the auditioning process through your eyes (ears?).

Also, it got me to pull out Abbey Road and listen to it again. I'd forgotten how good that album is. :T

Jim


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## Funkmonkey

Hey guys, I know I haven't been around in a while, but I thought I would stop in and say thanks for the comments in my absence. I have been busy collecting components for my still yet to arrive HT3s. I know, it seems like a long wait, but keep in mind that Salk's woofer supplier recently went bankrupt, so the wait has been abnormally long. Now that Jim managed to get all the woofer business sorted out, he is expecting the first batch of the new ones this week. Dennis Murphy tweaked his original crossovers for the new woofs and assured me that they are everything that the TC Sounds predecessor was before it.

I know I have really let this thread fall by the wayside :whistling:, but I had stopped auditioning and found my speakers so I have been waiting patiently, but the day is getting close, and I am getting very anxious! I will come back and post pics of them when they arrive. But i have to say that it has been a very fun journey! :bigsmile:


Cheers,
Greg


(On a side note, Jim posted a week or two ago about some SongTowers that he was preparing for delivery by Christmas. I think the ribbon tweeter version may be gone already, and I am not sure about the others, but he had 5 or 6 pairs ready to ship out for those last minute speaker shoppers)


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## Nuance

Howdy funkmonkey!

So how about some update teaser pics of your one-off cabinets? You're so close my friend!!!


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## Funkmonkey

Hey Nuance, how ya doin' buddy?

...ask and you shall receive (even though I know you have seen them already) 

Heres the side of one of my "squared off" HT3:









Cheers


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## Nuance

Booya! Those are so gorgeous! Brazilian rosewood is what I had initially picked, but it tipped the price scales for me. It looks amazing on your cabinets bro! Thanks for the teaser pics - you never can have too many out there.


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## Funkmonkey

Yours are certainly no slouch in Pal Dao, brother.


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## Nuance

Pau Ferro?


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## Funkmonkey

DOH!!!! my bad. I guess you would know better than I. How about some pictures so the fine folks at HTS can see a bit more of the fine craftsmanship and beauty come out of Salk Sound.
:bigsmile:


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