# RaZorTT's Theatre Build



## raZorTT

I thought it was about time I started a build thread. People have helped me a great deal here which I really appreciate! Hopefully some might find parts of the thread useful.

My fiance and I are currently in the middle of renovating our house. My dad is a builder by trade so for the past 2 years he and I have been working weekends on the renos. It has been a fairly huge undertaking, we've changed/added rooms in all 4 directions and have basically gutted the house and started again.

The best part about the renovation is that we have built a room that is going to become our HT. There is still a bit to do on the house, but we are getting very close to being able to get stuck into building the HT.

The dimensions of the room are as follows:
width: 4800
length: 6000
Height: 3000

The room is maybe a fraction wider than I would have liked, but it could be converted into a rumpus/lounge room if we ever look to sell the house. The existing house is roughly 600mm off the ground so the ceilings of the existing house and theatre are at the same height, but the floor of the theatre is lower to get the extra height.

The room itself has been built for a while. It has just been used to store from various rooms while they get redone. I had to promise it would be the last room done because my fiance knew nothing else would get completed.

Frames up! 
Trusses on 
Sarcing and 1/2 the floor down 
Windows, I'll be plugging these up 
Brick work done 

I haven't done too much with sound isolation other than insulating all the walls and using the thicker firecheck gyprock. I would have loved to do a double layer of gyprock with green glue in between, but it was going to cost a bit too much 

I installed conduit and pre-wired for a 7.1 setup (I only have a 5.1 setup at the moment) before putting up the gyprock.
batons on ceiling and power cables! 
Conduit and insulation 

The plan at the moment is for 6 seats, two rows of three recliners. The riser at back of the room continues on from the floor in the existing house. so is quite high (stadium seating  and there will be two steps down on each side of the front row. The front row will probably be around 3.3m from the screen, with the back row 4.6m. I'm planning on sitting in the front row the majority of the time.

Riser construction 
Filled with insulation
Stage construction 

At this stage i'm looking into a cinemascope screen from ozts, I think 130" - 140". I haven't made my mind up if i'll get the acoustically transparent screen yet or not. I'm waiting for Richard to send me a couple samples to see which gets the nod. I plan on building a screen wall about 600mm off the room wall so I can put my sub, centre and mains behind and out of sight. The screen wall will be covered in black GOM so that if I don't go with the AT screen I can position the centre just underneath pointing at the main listening position.

Screen wall 

I've based my speaker positions on the Dolby recommendations of 22-30 degress for the left and right. 90-110 degrees for the surrounds and 135-150 for the rear surrounds. Do people bring them in closer when they user a transparent screen?

Speaker position 

I really like the way sandman did his ceiling and soffits on the AVS forum, so i'm borrowing  his ideas for my theatre. Around the side and rear the width will be 400mm with a 150mm light tray attached. On the front the soffit will be wider so I can install some downlights that will wash the screen. Like sandmans, the visible part of the light tray will either be wood or a veneer just to add some interest. I'm also planning on installing a rope light or LED strip in the light tray.

Sandman Ceiling/Soffit 

I'll be installing a fibre optic star ceiling from starceiling-designer.com. I have a star map of the southern sky which I plan to replicate on the ceiling. I've worked out there will be around 16 1m2 panels with a total of nearly 800 stars ohmy.gif (1.5kms of optic fiber LOL). Having panels attached to the ceiling will also allow me to treat the first reflection points on the ceiling at the same time.

Building this might take me a while 

For the walls I plan on treating them with insulation and then covering them with fabric panels. There are going to be 6 columns in the room, 2 on each side and two on the rear wall. I'll put the surround speakers in the 4 columns near the back of the room. I was thinking about turning the two columns that don't have speakers into DVD/Blu-Ray holders, but I might be making things a bit complicated 

My colour scheme is going to be burgundy and black, with a wood trim that will match the light tray. I'm not sure which wood, but had thought of purple heart or maybe black sassafras. I may end up with something a little more mainstream though 

Colour scheme

The theatre shares a wall with my office so I have built an equipment closet that can be accessed from the office. Unfortunately I built it a fraction to thin to stick a 19" rack into, so it'll be a custom solution. I might just try and get some rack rails and attach them to the wall, otherwise it'll just be custom shelves.

Framing the equiptment closet 
Equiptment access 
What's behind door number 2? 
From in the theatre 
Speaker cable 
Power points in closet, I have another quad at the bottom 

At the moment I have undercoated the ceiling and the walls. For no other reason than to stop myself brushing against the plaster every time I go in there 

Undercoat 

If you have made this far you've done well. I'm sure there is other stuff I should have mentioned 

Next step for me will be starting to frame up the soffits, but it'll probably be a couple weeks before I can start that because I have some painting to do :gulp:

Cheers,
Simon


*UPDATE:*

Just wanted to link to a few photos of the finished room :T

First glimpse
Screen wall 
Seats 
Showtime!


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## Prof.

Wow Simon..This is going to be a very nice theatre..:T
But one thing..Why so many windows when they will have to be plugged anyway.?


raZorTT said:


> I've based my speaker positions on the Dolby recommendations of 22-30 degress for the left and right. 90-110 degrees for the surrounds and 135-150 for the rear surrounds. Do people bring them in closer when they user a transparent screen?


Generally the best position for the L&R speakers with an AT screen is to bring them in to line up with the side edges of a projected 16:9 image..

I'll be following your progress closely and good luck with it all..


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Wow Simon..This is going to be a very nice theatre..:T
> But one thing..Why so many windows when they will have to be plugged anyway.?


Thanks Prof, fingers crossed it all comes together as planned.

Going the whole hog and making the room a dedicated HT was a bit of an after thought. When I designed the extension I had always planned for it to be the room I would watch movies in etc, but it was going to be more like a rumpus room. By the time my fiance (she's a legend  and I decided we should dedicate the room I had already gotten council approvals etc so didn't want to alter the design and then have to wait another 6 months to get approvals.

If we get sick of having a HT (yeah right ) we can always convert it back into a more traditional rumpus/lounge room which is good.

I'm going to build the plugs similar to yours so hopefully it won't have an adverse affect on the room. I think with treatments and the fabric panels it should be fine.



Prof. said:


> Generally the best position for the L&R speakers with an AT screen is to bring them in to line up with the side edges of a projected 16:9 image..


I put up the post the other day about having two layers of GOM in front of speakers because I was trying to work out how to build the masking for a 2.37:1 screen. I think if I move the speakers inside the boundaries of 16:9 screen it would work out to be about 18-19 degrees from the main listening position. I guess not many people would be able to tell the difference between 18 and 22 degrees. Certainly solves the masking issue though 



Prof. said:


> I'll be following your progress closely and good luck with it all..


Thanks! How's your theatre been going?

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Going the whole hog and making the room a dedicated HT was a bit of an after thought. When I designed the extension I had always planned for it to be the room I would watch movies in etc, but it was going to be more like a rumpus room. By the time my fiance (she's a legend  and I decided we should dedicate the room I had already gotten council approvals etc so didn't want to alter the design and then have to wait another 6 months to get approvals.


Understandable..



> I'm going to build the plugs similar to yours so hopefully it won't have an adverse affect on the room. I think with treatments and the fabric panels it should be fine.


If I've interpreted your pics correctly, it looks like the windows will be on a side wall..
You might find that the windows line up (or near enough) with your first and second reflection points..In which case two of the plugs will work well as acoustic absorber panels..



> Thanks! How's your theatre been going?


More changes and updates recently..
I've now got an Optoma HD projector :yay: but unfortunately it has a shorter throw than the Benq had..
So I had to move it back a bit.(so as not to bump my head on it) which meant having to make up a bigger screen..
Anyway it's all in and set up now and I am loving it!! :T


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> If I've interpreted your pics correctly, it looks like the windows will be on a side wall..
> You might find that the windows line up (or near enough) with your first and second reflection points..In which case two of the plugs will work well as acoustic absorber panels..


Yep spot on, the windows are down the right side of the room if you are facing the screen. That would be handy, knowing my luck though it'll be right in the middle of the columns 



Prof. said:


> More changes and updates recently..
> I've now got an Optoma HD projector :yay: but unfortunately it has a shorter throw than the Benq had..
> So I had to move it back a bit.(so as not to bump my head on it) which meant having to make up a bigger screen..
> Anyway it's all in and set up now and I am loving it!! :T


Awesome, which model did you get? You are also running a scope setup aren't you? Is your screen a DIY?

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

Simon, I bought the Optoma HD65..
I had some concerns about it, with all the lamp problems some people were having, but I managed to score a 3 year worldwide lamp insurance policy with the projector, so i won't have to worry about the lamp blowing prematurely..:T

It's a great little unit and last night I watched my first good quality Blu-ray movie..
It totally blew me away..FANTASTIC quality image..:unbelievable:
I always thought my BD player did a good job of upconverting DVD's..but they paled into insignificance, compared to a good quality Blu-ray disc!!

I'm still running a scope set up..I could NEVER go back to just zooming again..

I had to give up my Silver Pearl screen ( too bright with this projector).. so since I had to make a bigger screen, I thought I would just paint a plain flat white one initially and see how it looked..
Well it looks great with this projector..brilliant whites and inky blacks...with nice skin tones as well..
No need to make up any thing else..:T

I'm very happy with the whole set up...as you might have guessed..:bigsmile:


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon, I bought the Optoma HD65..
> I had some concerns about it, with all the lamp problems some people were having, but I managed to score a 3 year worldwide lamp insurance policy with the projector, so i won't have to worry about the lamp blowing prematurely..:T


Nice work on the warranty! Did I read correctly that you bought it from Canada?



Prof. said:


> It's a great little unit and last night I watched my first good quality Blu-ray movie..
> It totally blew me away..FANTASTIC quality image..:unbelievable:
> I always thought my BD player did a good job of upconverting DVD's..but they paled into insignificance, compared to a good quality Blu-ray disc!!


A friend of mine just got himself the Sim2 D80E and he said he was amazed at how good the picture quality was with a bluray movie! I can't wait to get mine all setup. Not sure at this stage which projector though.



Prof. said:


> I had to give up my Silver Pearl screen ( too bright with this projector).. so since I had to make a bigger screen, I thought I would just paint a plain flat white one initially and see how it looked..
> Well it looks great with this projector..brilliant whites and inky blacks...with nice skin tones as well..
> No need to make up any thing else..:T


Did you just use a standard flat white? Or did you get some of the special screen paints?

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Nice work on the warranty! Did I read correctly that you bought it from Canada?


Yes you did..I also got the lamp warranty from there as well..


> A friend of mine just got himself the Sim2 D80E and he said he was amazed at how good the picture quality was with a bluray movie! I can't wait to get mine all setup. Not sure at this stage which projector though.


Are you planning on getting a 1080p.or 720p.


> Did you just use a standard flat white? Or did you get some of the special screen paints?


I used the same paint I used for the base coat on the Silver Pearl..
It was Dulux Flat White..It has been tested as being a neutral white..


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Are you planning on getting a 1080p.or 720p.


I'm not really sure at this stage.. If the picture of a 720p was better than something that supported 1080p then i'd probably go with the 720. It can be pretty painful trying to demo projectors, the shops never seem to sell the competing brands 



Prof. said:


> I used the same paint I used for the base coat on the Silver Pearl..
> It was Dulux Flat White..It has been tested as being a neutral white..


What sized nap did you use on your roller? I'd imagine it would have to be pretty small otherwise it might affect the picture.

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I'm not really sure at this stage.. If the picture of a 720p was better than something that supported 1080p then i'd probably go with the 720. It can be pretty painful trying to demo projectors, the shops never seem to sell the competing brands


This is one of the reasons why I bought the HD65..
It supports 1080p. very well..and I doubt anyone could pick that it's not a 1080p.projector..

Trying to decide on a particular make and model of projector with demo's at shops, is an exercise in futility IMO..:gah:
I've bought both my projectors on peoples recommendations on various forums..
Extremely pleased with both choices..:T 



> What sized nap did you use on your roller? I'd imagine it would have to be pretty small otherwise it might affect the picture.


I used a good quality 4mm. Mohair nap and absolutely no marks or lines on the screen..


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## raZorTT

I jumped into sketchup and moved the speakers around and put in some masking panels at the 16:9 point.

Screen frame 

Do you think I should build some little stands to get the mains off the sub?

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

Normally the L&R speakers would be just on the *outside*edge of the 16:9 image..but that would then require you to make acoustically transparent masks..
With them on the *inside* of the image, you may not have a wide enough soundstage..
It will probably depend on how wide the finished screen is going to be..

I would definitely raise those speakers off the subs..
Just making a solid platform, slightly above and over the length of the sub and isolated from the floor, would be all you need to raise the speakers slightly..


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Normally the L&R speakers would be just on the *outside*edge of the 16:9 image..but that would then require you to make acoustically transparent masks..
> With them on the *inside* of the image, you may not have a wide enough soundstage..
> It will probably depend on how wide the finished screen is going to be..


The plan was to cover the masks with black GOM, but then I would have the sound going through two transparent materials. Maybe that's a compromise I need to make for 16:9 material. It's probably only going to be some television shows so might not be that big a deal.



Prof. said:


> I would definitely raise those speakers off the subs..
> Just making a solid platform, slightly above and over the length of the sub and isolated from the floor, would be all you need to raise the speakers slightly..


One option for me would be to build some platforms that attach to the screen wall to lift them up. The other is to do some test with the subs standing up instead of lying down. The VAF SW19 is two halves connected by a speaker cable so I potentially could stand them on their ends.

I've got REW and I also have gotten the external SB ready to hook into my sound meter. Standing them up might be good because it will potentially give me more options for placement.

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> The plan was to cover the masks with black GOM, but then I would have the sound going through two transparent materials. Maybe that's a compromise I need to make for 16:9 material. It's probably only going to be some television shows so might not be that big a deal.


Even though I have a solid screen, It doesn't bother me with no masking for 16:9, particularly TV shows..
If you want masks with the AT screen, then I would just use some grill cloth to cover them.. 





> One option for me would be to build some platforms that attach to the screen wall to lift them up. The other is to do some test with the subs standing up instead of lying down. The VAF SW19 is two halves connected by a speaker cable so I potentially could stand them on their ends.
> 
> I've got REW and I also have gotten the external SB ready to hook into my sound meter. Standing them up might be good because it will potentially give me more options for placement.


Aha!! I hadn't realized it was a split sub..
VERY nice sub by the way.:T.I've always liked VAF speakers, and I believe that sub is right up there with the best of them..
I think standing them up would be the way to go..


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Even though I have a solid screen, It doesn't bother me with no masking for 16:9, particularly TV shows..
> If you want masks with the AT screen, then I would just use some grill cloth to cover them..


I think I will probably be the same, I guess i'll try and design things so it's easy enough to add masking later if it does get on my nerves 



Prof. said:


> Aha!! I hadn't realized it was a split sub..
> VERY nice sub by the way.:T.I've always liked VAF speakers, and I believe that sub is right up there with the best of them..


Thanks  I haven't really had much of a chance to play with it.. I had originally just hooked it up quickly to make sure it worked and then put it away. After starting the thread and needing to clear things out of the study I made some room for it in the lounge room, so now have it hooked up . I still need to make some adjustments to the level, but it is absolutely awesome! Every time I chuck in a movie (like master & commander or u571 for example) I just sit there giggling when the bass kicks in. My favorite so far has been the end of the 1812 overtue when the canons go off  You would swear they were in the room with you 




Prof. said:


> I think standing them up would be the way to go..


Thanks prof, I think i'll take your suggestion on board and move the speakers so they are somewhere between the 16:9 and the 2.37:1 boundaires. I think that should give me the option to either lie them down or stand them up. Standing up would probably look cool if I went with the back lit thing like sandman 

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I think I will probably be the same, I guess i'll try and design things so it's easy enough to add masking later if it does get on my nerves


If your projector/screen combo. produces good black levels, then it shouldn't be a problem..



> Thanks prof, I think i'll take your suggestion on board and move the speakers so they are somewhere between the 16:9 and the 2.37:1 boundaires. I think that should give me the option to either lie them down or stand them up. Standing up would probably look cool if I went with the back lit thing like sandman


That would be spooky!! :bigsmile:


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## raZorTT

Hey Prof,

What sort of lighting setup do you have in your theatre?

I'm trying to decide if I should order a lutron grafik eye QS to control my different zones.

I had spoken to a few people about clipsal and dynalite but they all sound more expensive and generally won't allow me to set them up.

Does anyone know of a good place to purchase the Lutron from? They have to have the 240V version and ship to Australia 

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

Simon,

I have a fairly simple set up for lighting..using an HPM Super Dimmer..
It gives an automatic slow lights up and slow dim (speed rate adjustable) or double click on the remote for instant lights out..
All the lighting is controlled by my Harmony remote with sequential programming, so that when I hit "play", the movie starts and the lights dim..
Visitors to my theatre are usually very impressed with this..:bigsmile:


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> I have a fairly simple set up for lighting..using an HPM Super Dimmer..
> It gives an automatic slow lights up and slow dim (speed rate adjustable) or double click on the remote for instant lights out..
> All the lighting is controlled by my Harmony remote with sequential programming, so that when I hit "play", the movie starts and the lights dim..
> Visitors to my theatre are usually very impressed with this..:bigsmile:


Thanks Prof. 

So you have 1 "zone" of lights?

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

Yes..All my lights are downlights so they all get controlled together..


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## raZorTT

I've been trying to work out my treatments based on things bpape has mentioned and things that i've read in some of Prof's and cinema mad's threads.

Here is a picture of what i'm currently thinking.

Theatre treatments 

Based on what I could find going through the various threads, Bradfords Ultratel is the most suitable insulation for treatments on the sidewall and rear walls. The rear walls (slightly different colour) should have an FSK or equivalent facing to keep the rear a little lively (thanks bpape!). I had planned for the sides and rear to be 25mm (1") thick.

What about the screen wall? Is that supposed to absorb as much as possible? Is Ultratel the most suitable for that? I had planned on the screen wall being 50mm (2") thick.

Are the superchunk style corner bass traps more efficient that hanging full sheets in the corner with an air gap? I had always planned to do the superchunks but some of the descriptions of corner traps have made me wonder.

I noticed cinema mad mention quietel in his bass traps thread. Would this be better than ultratel as the superchunks? 

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I've been trying to work out my treatments based on things bpape has mentioned and things that i've read in some of Prof's and cinema mad's threads.
> 
> Here is a picture of what i'm currently thinking.
> 
> Theatre treatments
> 
> Based on what I could find going through the various threads, Bradfords Ultratel is the most suitable insulation for treatments on the sidewall and rear walls. The rear walls (slightly different colour) should have an FSK or equivalent facing to keep the rear a little lively (thanks bpape!). I had planned for the sides and rear to be 25mm (1") thick.
> 
> What about the screen wall? Is that supposed to absorb as much as possible? Is Ultratel the most suitable for that? I had planned on the screen wall being 50mm (2") thick.


Simon,

I would be inclined to do it the other way round..
Put the 1" thick Ultratel across the front wall..and the 2" thick on the side and back walls..




> Are the superchunk style corner bass traps more efficient that hanging full sheets in the corner with an air gap? I had always planned to do the superchunks but some of the descriptions of corner traps have made me wonder.


There seems to be two schools of thought on this..Some say chunks are best , and others say flat panels across the corners...
I have 6" thick panels across the corners and they do a good job..

I would suggest that what Jason has done would be a very effective trap..
From what I understand, he's used 4" thick Ultratel with a 2" thick Quietel panel to make up a 6" corner trap..

Also, your sketchup isn't showing any rear corner traps..Is this just an oversight?


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> I would be inclined to do it the other way round..
> Put the 1" thick Ultratel across the front wall..and the 2" thick on the side and back walls..


Really? would it just be better to go 2" everywhere then? From what I've read you want the screen wall as dead as possible?




Prof. said:


> There seems to be two schools of thought on this..Some say chunks are best , and others say flat panels across the corners...
> I have 6" thick panels across the corners and they do a good job..
> 
> I would suggest that what Jason has done would be a very effective trap..
> From what I understand, he's used 4" thick Ultratel with a 2" thick Quietel panel to make up a 6" corner trap..


Did you originally plan to do the chunks? I thought I remembered you telling someone how to cut them up, maybe I just assumed that's what you had.

I don't really mind which option because it's behind the screen wall anyway. Just want the best option available 



Prof. said:


> Also, your sketchup isn't showing any rear corner traps..Is this just an oversight?


I'm not sure what to do for the rear corners. Here's a pic of my dilemma

Rear treatments 

The door on the side of the room doesn't leave much room for a corner trap, from the edge of the door to the rear wall is only around 200mm.

Would it be worth doing a baby superchunk in there?

I have room to play inside my soffits if that will help the room? I was just going to fill with insulation, but I can leave an air gap behind it if that will help it act as an absorber?

Cheers,
Simon


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## bpape

The front wall can be 1" or 2". I prefer 2" to help deeper with SBIR issues as well as surround reflections.

On the side walls, do the first 5' or so floor to ceiling. 1" is OK if space is at a premium.

On the rear wall, use something thicker and do full wall coverage - but use an FSK facing on it to keep the surround lively while still being able to help with nulls off the rear wall in the bass range.

Bryan


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Really? would it just be better to go 2" everywhere then? From what I've read you want the screen wall as dead as possible?


Well if you were going to use two different thicknesses, then that's the way I would do it..But using 2" thick all round would be better.. 



> Did you originally plan to do the chunks? I thought I remembered you telling someone how to cut them up, maybe I just assumed that's what you had.


I was originally going to use chunks, but then I heard about the effectiveness of spaced flat corner panels for traps..
So I decided to try the panels first ( much less work..:bigsmile and see how they performed..I could always do the chunks later if need be..
I was so impressed with the bass performance that I decided to leave it as they were.



> I'm not sure what to do for the rear corners. Here's a pic of my dilemma
> 
> Rear treatments
> 
> The door on the side of the room doesn't leave much room for a corner trap, from the edge of the door to the rear wall is only around 200mm.
> 
> Would it be worth doing a baby superchunk in there?


That's a nasty little corner..
It doesn't look to be much corner wall area with the door open..but with the door closed, you then have a large empty corner again..
There's probably not much you can do about it...Possibly placing a vertical panel on the side wall above your existing insulation..and a panel on the door, might help a bit..



> I have room to play inside my soffits if that will help the room? I was just going to fill with insulation, but I can leave an air gap behind it if that will help it act as an absorber?


I would still fill any soffits with insulation..


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## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Based on what I could find going through the various threads, Bradfords Ultratel is the most suitable insulation for treatments on the sidewall and rear walls. The rear walls (slightly different colour) should have an FSK or equivalent facing to keep the rear a little lively (thanks bpape!). I had planned for the sides and rear to be 25mm (1") thick.


When I was making my rear window plug, I asked Bradfords about FSK and they informed me that they don't have that product..
The only facing they have with Supertel or Ultratel is a BPF facing (Black Paper Face) and it's a lot more expensive than the plain fibreglass..

I bought it and used it in the window plug, but have always wondered whether it was as effective as the FSK..
It's only a very thin membrane on the face of the fibreglass..

Just recently I've been doing some experimenting, placing different material in front of the window plug, to see if there is any improvement in reflecting the highs..

The different paper based materials I tried didn't seem to make much difference, so in desperation I whacked up a piece of 3mm. MDF in front!!

Wow!!.. did that change things dramatically!!..
Surround sounds were much more detailed and seemed to project more coherently to locations in the room, where you would expect to hear them in respect of the action on the screen..
Interestingly enough..bass extension seemed to be even better, but I don't know if that was just my imagination..

I'm doing further tests at the moment using Mylar as the high frequency reflector..
I'll let you know the outcome of that..


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## raZorTT

bpape said:


> The front wall can be 1" or 2". I prefer 2" to help deeper with SBIR issues as well as surround reflections.
> 
> On the side walls, do the first 5' or so floor to ceiling. 1" is OK if space is at a premium.
> 
> On the rear wall, use something thicker and do full wall coverage - but use an FSK facing on it to keep the surround lively while still being able to help with nulls off the rear wall in the bass range.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan!

Space isn't a huge issue so i'll look to go 2" everywhere and i'll update my model so the first part of the side walls and the rear wall are floor to ceiling.

Do you have any preference on the superchunk versus hanging for bass traps?

Cheers,
Simon


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Well if you were going to use two different thicknesses, then that's the way I would do it..But using 2" thick all round would be better..


2" it is 



Prof. said:


> I was originally going to use chunks, but then I heard about the effectiveness of spaced flat corner panels for traps..
> So I decided to try the panels first ( much less work..:bigsmile and see how they performed..I could always do the chunks later if need be..
> I was so impressed with the bass performance that I decided to leave it as they were.


The only thing is the bottom of my soffit is about 2.7m off the ground and the sheets are only 2.4m long :-\



Prof. said:


> That's a nasty little corner..
> It doesn't look to be much corner wall area with the door open..but with the door closed, you then have a large empty corner again..
> There's probably not much you can do about it...Possibly placing a vertical panel on the side wall above your existing insulation..and a panel on the door, might help a bit..


Yeah nasty is right! do you think a chunk with a 300mm face (1/2 normal) would be worth it?

I'll definitely put some panels on the door. Actually, have been thinking maybe I need to switch it from opening out to opening in so the panels will be a bit more seamless.



Prof. said:


> I would still fill any soffits with insulation..


Would you pack them completely? Or leave a bit of a gap at the top?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> When I was making my rear window plug, I asked Bradfords about FSK and they informed me that they don't have that product..
> The only facing they have with Supertel or Ultratel is a BPF facing (Black Paper Face) and it's a lot more expensive than the plain fibreglass..
> 
> I bought it and used it in the window plug, but have always wondered whether it was as effective as the FSK..
> It's only a very thin membrane on the face of the fibreglass..
> 
> Just recently I've been doing some experimenting, placing different material in front of the window plug, to see if there is any improvement in reflecting the highs..
> 
> The different paper based materials I tried didn't seem to make much difference, so in desperation I whacked up a piece of 3mm. MDF in front!!
> 
> Wow!!.. did that change things dramatically!!..
> Surround sounds were much more detailed and seemed to project more coherently to locations in the room, where you would expect to hear them in respect of the action on the screen..
> Interestingly enough..bass extension seemed to be even better, but I don't know if that was just my imagination..
> 
> I'm doing further tests at the moment using Mylar as the high frequency reflector..
> I'll let you know the outcome of that..


Wow that sounds promising! Definitely keep us posted! Sounds like I should look at buying some ultratel in bulk then for the rear wall building in either thin mdf or the mylar in the panels!

Have you tried some 6mm gyprock? wondering if that would work like the MDF?

Thanks Prof!

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Ok I did up the changes in sketchup.

Treatments 

All the treatments are 2" thick now and the first 1.5m (5ft) and rear wall are from floor to ceiling. 

Do you think I should stick the insulation in the columns too? seeing as they're only covered with GOM. Probably wouldn't hurt.

Prof. for your bass traps did you cut a 1200mm sheet into two and sandwich them together? so you have a 600mm face?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Well sure. Something 3mm thick and stiff like that is going to reflect pretty much everything. As for bass, it'll still probably pass most of it. It's also likely acting as a membrane tuned to who knows what.

Bryan


----------



## bpape

Simon,

Please explain a bit more (or link) to exactly what you're talking about for the other than chunks

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Simon,
> 
> Please explain a bit more (or link) to exactly what you're talking about for the other than chunks
> 
> Bryan


Hi Bryan,

This is my understanding (which is obviously quite limited  ) of what I've read/seen used as a bass trap.

alt bass trap 

The 3 sheets of insulation would be a total of 6" thick. Put in the corner with an air gap behind them. 

I'm not sure if the corners of the front sheet should be touching walls or the rear corners. I suspect probably the front.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

OK. Just wanted to make sure. There are things in the studio world called 'hangers' which are a different animal. What you showed will work just fine - it just takes up a lot more space in the room. If it were me and I could have that much space, I'd make 24x24x34" chunks (4 triangles per 2'x4' sheet as opposed to 8 triangles per).

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> OK. Just wanted to make sure. There are things in the studio world called 'hangers' which are a different animal. What you showed will work just fine - it just takes up a lot more space in the room. If it were me and I could have that much space, I'd make 24x24x34" chunks (4 triangles per 2'x4' sheet as opposed to 8 triangles per).
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan,

I Appreciate your advice!

Do you think it's worth making a small trap in each of the rear corners? With a face of about 300mm ( 1ft)?

Or will making larger ones like you mention above and isulation in the soffits be enough?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> The only thing is the bottom of my soffit is about 2.7m off the ground and the sheets are only 2.4m long :-\


I wouldn't be overly concerned about that..
You could just build the mounting frame to the full height between the floor and the soffits, and have the trap at 2.4M.high..or alternatively, if you have any Ultratel left over, just add a bit on top..



> Yeah nasty is right! do you think a chunk with a 300mm face (1/2 normal) would be worth it?


I don't think small chunks are going to do very much..
If you made up some panels.. say 2' x 6' and 4" thick for the side wall right next to the door opening and at floor level..and the same on the door, I think that would be more effective..



> Would you pack them completely? Or leave a bit of a gap at the top?


I would loosely fill them completely..to stop any ringing..
It's quite amazing the effect they have when filled, in deadening the acoustics in the room..


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Wow that sounds promising! Definitely keep us posted! Sounds like I should look at buying some ultratel in bulk then for the rear wall building in either thin mdf or the mylar in the panels!
> 
> Have you tried some 6mm gyprock? wondering if that would work like the MDF?
> 
> Thanks Prof!
> 
> Simon


I haven't tried gyprock but that could be very effective since it's not as hard a surface as the MDF..
Thanks Simon, I'll give that a try..:T


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Do you think I should stick the insulation in the columns too? seeing as they're only covered with GOM. Probably wouldn't hurt.


Definitely fill the columns with insulation..just something like "Pink bats" will be fine..



> Prof. for your bass traps did you cut a 1200mm sheet into two and sandwich them together? so you have a 600mm face?


Actually I had to cut the sheets into three 450mm. wide strips..
I didn't have enough room behind the screenwall to make them 600 wide..


----------



## Prof.

bpape said:


> Well sure. Something 3mm thick and stiff like that is going to reflect pretty much everything. As for bass, it'll still probably pass most of it. It's also likely acting as a membrane tuned to who knows what.
> 
> Bryan


I used the 3mm. MDF as an extreme change from the paper faced panel, to see how much difference there would be..
It did show a big difference, but not necessarily ideal..that's why I'm now trying the Mylar film..which is a bit softer but still reflective..and I'll also now try the gyprock (drywall)..


----------



## bpape

raZorTT said:


> Thanks Bryan,
> 
> I Appreciate your advice!
> 
> Do you think it's worth making a small trap in each of the rear corners? With a face of about 300mm ( 1ft)?
> 
> Or will making larger ones like you mention above and isulation in the soffits be enough?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Rear corners would be nice. 1 ft will be fine. 

Having it spread in different areas will only make it more efficient.

Bryan


----------



## cinema mad

Prof. said:


> When I was making my rear window plug, I asked Bradfords about FSK and they informed me that they don't have that product..
> The only facing they have with Supertel or Ultratel is a BPF facing (Black Paper Face) and it's a lot more expensive than the plain fibreglass..
> 
> I bought it and used it in the window plug, but have always wondered whether it was as effective as the FSK..
> It's only a very thin membrane on the face of the fibreglass..
> 
> Just recently I've been doing some experimenting, placing different material in front of the window plug, to see if there is any improvement in reflecting the highs..
> 
> The different paper based materials I tried didn't seem to make much difference, so in desperation I whacked up a piece of 3mm. MDF in front!!
> 
> Wow!!.. did that change things dramatically!!..
> Surround sounds were much more detailed and seemed to project more coherently to locations in the room, where you would expect to hear them in respect of the action on the screen..
> Interestingly enough..bass extension seemed to be even better, but I don't know if that was just my imagination..
> 
> I'm doing further tests at the moment using Mylar as the high frequency reflector..
> I'll let you know the outcome of that..


Hi all,
You can get 50mm Ultratel with A facing called Acoustistuff, its A thin foil lining which appears to be A close match to the Owens corning FRK (foil reinforced kraft). These facings are used as A vapor barrier but as Bryan Pape has pointed out will reflect the higher frequency's when used as acoustic treatments...

Here is A link to A PDF of the different facings avalible for the CSR Bradfords semi rigid fiberglass boards, See Page 7

http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.a...s/8c/8c6580e1-8058-4db0-ba4e-016585a4d55c.pdf


Hope this helps,
Cheers....


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Rear corners would be nice. 1 ft will be fine.
> 
> Having it spread in different areas will only make it more efficient.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan,

I think the ultratel comes in packs of three so based on my calculations ill have at least 1 sheet spare, which will be more than enough to make the rear traps 



cinema mad said:


> Hi all,
> You can get 50mm Ultratel with A facing called Acoustistuff, its A thin foil lining which appears to be A close match to the Owens corning FRK (foil reinforced kraft). These facings are used as A vapor barrier but as Bryan Pape has pointed out will reflect the higher frequency's when used as acoustic treatments...
> 
> Here is A link to A PDF of the different facings avalible for the CSR Bradfords semi rigid fiberglass boards, See Page 7
> 
> http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.a...s/8c/8c6580e1-8058-4db0-ba4e-016585a4d55c.pdf
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Cheers....


Hey cinema mad,

Thanks for the heads up on Acoustistuff. I found out yesterday that the place my dad gets all his building supplies can get their hands on ultratel  I'll have to find out if it costs extra for the Acoustistuff facing.

Am trying to accumulate as much as I can before we really kick into construction 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

cinema mad said:


> Hi all,
> You can get 50mm Ultratel with A facing called Acoustistuff, its A thin foil lining which appears to be A close match to the Owens corning FRK (foil reinforced kraft). These facings are used as A vapor barrier but as Bryan Pape has pointed out will reflect the higher frequency's when used as acoustic treatments...
> 
> Here is A link to A PDF of the different facings avalible for the CSR Bradfords semi rigid fiberglass boards, See Page 7
> 
> http://www.bradfordinsulation.com.a...s/8c/8c6580e1-8058-4db0-ba4e-016585a4d55c.pdf
> 
> 
> Hope this helps,
> Cheers....


Hi Jason,

I did see that alum. faced fibreglass at the time I bought my 50mm. BMF (not BPF) sheet..
I decided against it because I was under the impression (at that time) that the FSK was more like our normal brown kraft paper..
The aluminium face was thicker than the BMF and I felt it would be too reflective..

Looking at that chart you linked to, I can see now that the BMF absorption rate is much higher than the Acoustituff material and that would have been the better choice..
It also is confirmed by recent experiments using different facing materials, that the BMF has very little reflective qualities..

I think the Mylar film I'm currently testing will most likely come close to the alum. Acoustituff..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hi Jason,
> 
> I did see that alum. faced fibreglass at the time I bought my 50mm. BMF (not BPF) sheet..
> I decided against it because I was under the impression (at that time) that the FSK was more like our normal brown kraft paper..
> The aluminium face was thicker than the BMF and I felt it would be too reflective..
> 
> Looking at that chart you linked to, I can see now that the BMF absorption rate is much higher than the Acoustituff material and that would have been the better choice..
> It also is confirmed by recent experiments using different facing materials, that the BMF has very little reflective qualities..
> 
> I think the Mylar film I'm currently testing will most likely come close to the alum. Acoustituff..


Hey guys,

So are there three types of ultratel? unfaced, BMF and acoustituff? 

Or is the BMF the "normal"?

I think i'll order 3 or 4 sheets of the acoustituff to use on the rear wall.

Looks like the place my dad gets most of his building supplies from can supply us with ultratel 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Half your luck Simon..
I just priced the 50mm. unfaced Ultratel 3 pack and they want $200.00/pack!!

Edit..I should add that I only need 1 sheet and they won't break the packs..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Half your luck Simon..
> I just priced the 50mm. unfaced Ultratel 3 pack and they want $200.00/pack!!


Unfortunately the price looks like it's fairly standard :-\ But the bonus is I won't have to buy it elsewhere and then get it shipped to me.

So looks like there are 3 in the range then. wonder how much they'll whack on for the acoustituff facing 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

When I bought my Supertel, they were $68.00/sheet..
The same sheets with BMF were $94.00/ sheet!..The Acoustituff facing might be even more..


----------



## cinema mad

Hi,
Yes the UltraTel comes as 1200x2400 x3 only, I must have A good Rep at my CSR Bradfords outlet because I get it for under $200:bigsmile: 

Simon, Acoustistuff is close to the FSK, there is A thiker foil avalible but it is not the same as FSK...

Cheers...


----------



## cinema mad

Prof, You Know Kraft paper works to reflect the Higher freq Why not just use that?..
I used it to make Membrane based and posted the build on my thread...


----------



## Prof.

cinema mad said:


> Prof, You Know Kraft paper works to reflect the Higher freq Why not just use that?..
> I used it to make Membrane based and posted the build on my thread...


Jason,

I used the Mylar film initially because I had a roll of it on hand..and thought it would be very similar to very thin aluminium foil in it's reflective qualities..

For the tests, I've just placed the Mylar between the cloth covering and the fibreglass on the window plug..but I'm beginning wonder whether it would make any difference to the reflectivity if it was actually bonded to the fibreglass!..I can't see that it really would..it's not flexing because it's very firmly pressed against the cloth..but you never know..
Any thoughts on that?

I can't find Kraft paper online anywhere, other than buying a large roll of it..and for just a try out it's not worth it.. No shops locally use Kraft paper where I might just be able to get a few feet of it..
It seems the days of a counter top having a roll of brown paper for wrapping purposes, have gone! :sad:


----------



## bpape

I have FSK sold by the foot for $1 per foot x 42" wide. It ABSOLUTELY is different bonding to the absorbtion. Don't let the cloth touch

Bryan


----------



## Prof.

Thanks Bryan..

I didn't realise it was so important not to have the facing touching the cloth!
I think I'll just spray the Mylar with some glue and lightly bond it to the fibreglass..just to test..If it's successful I can permanently bond it later..


----------



## bpape

It's not touching the cloth - it's bonded to the absorbtive core material.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Well my dad ordered ordered some materials today.

He ordered around 70 lineal metres of framing which we will rip in half to frame up the soffits, screen wall and columns. We are also grabbing a few sheets of MDF, for the sides of the soffits and also to make up a few star ceiling panels.

Probably more importantly though, we ordered 12 sheets of unfaced Ultratel, and 3 sheets with the acoustituff.

Fingers crossed it will arrive mid next week, so we will be able to start framing the soffit next weekend!

Looking forward to finally starting the real work 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Did the Acoustituff sheets work out to be much more expensive than the plain Ultratel?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof,

I'll let you know on Monday. The guy didn't have an acoustituff price on hand so will get back to us first thing.

I'm hoping it will be like what you were quoted for the BMF and be $20-30 extra per sheet. Fingers crossed 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

In preparation of framing the soffit and screen wall over the next two weeks I thought it might be worth working out the screen size I want.

Below in an outline of a 135" scope screen.
Screen Outline 

I hooked up my panasonic projector and zoomed the image to fill the 2.37 outline.

Quantum of Solice 

WOW! I don't think I could go back to 16:9, even after 5mins.

My only worry is that my front row is going to be from 3.0m to 3.3m from the screen and i'm wondering if 135" might be a bit too big. I think i'll have to watch something for more than 5 mins to get a better idea.

What are other peoples screen size/seating distance?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> My only worry is that my front row is going to be from 3.0m to 3.3m from the screen and i'm wondering if 135" might be a bit too big. I think i'll have to watch something for more than 5 mins to get a better idea.
> 
> What are other peoples screen size/seating distance?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


That's very close for that size screen..

I sit at 2.9M. with a 106" CIH screen..and that gives me a very enveloping image..I certainly wouldn't want to sit any closer..but some people do..
Generally speaking, the ideal seating position for a scope screen is approx. 2.5 - 3 times the height..
I sit at 2.85 times the height..

If you can't get any further back with your front row, then I would suggest reducing the screen size a little..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof,

I think I might have to drop it down to a 130" screen. With a seating distance of 3.3m a 135" would be about 2.47 times the height.

I guess I could make my "box" seat in the second row if I wanted to keep the screen size.

Definitely will require some further investigation.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I guess I could make my "box" seat in the second row if I wanted to keep the screen size.
> 
> Definitely will require some further investigation.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Well yes..If you plan to sit in the rear row, then you could go even bigger and blow your front seat viewers away..:yikes: :rofl2:


----------



## cinema mad

Nothing wrong with having you main seat/sweet spot in the middel of the second row, lots of people do it like that inc me... 

And at least by keep your screen large you get that full Immersion / wow factor....


Cheers....


----------



## Jason IB

Hi Simon,

Fancy meeting you here  Great thread on this forum too! Being that our rooms are at similar stages this thread has helped me out heaps. I gotta thanks "Prof" also for his input...BIG help.


----------



## raZorTT

Absolutely, Big thanks have to go out to Prof, cinema mad and bpape! They are all very knowledgeable guys and are always willing to share it! This "hobby" wouldn't be possible otherwise 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

raZorTT said:


> I'm hoping it will be like what you were quoted for the BMF and be $20-30 extra per sheet. Fingers crossed


FYI, looks like the accoustituff is about an extra $50-60 per sheet. A pack of 3 sheets is about $350. A smidge more than i'd hoped, but i'll wear the cost so I don't have to worry about putting the kraft paper on myself . Not that stapling paper to a few frames would have been hard, but it helps me to justify it :heehee:

I'll confirm the exact cost once I get the invoice on delivery, which hopefully will be in another week or so.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## cinema mad

Sounds good Simon, Hopefully you will get it in A week so you can start installing it mate :T ...

Cheers...


----------



## Prof.

Jason IB said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Fancy meeting you here  Great thread on this forum too! Being that our rooms are at similar stages this thread has helped me out heaps. I gotta thanks "Prof" also for his input...BIG help.


Hi Jason IB..:wave:

Thanks for the kind words and welcome to the Shack..
There are many very experienced people here in all aspects of HT, only too willing to help you..
Just ask what ever you want to know..
I hope you enjoy your time with us..


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> FYI, looks like the accoustituff is about an extra $50-60 per sheet. A pack of 3 sheets is about $350. A smidge more than i'd hoped, but i'll wear the cost so I don't have to worry about putting the kraft paper on myself . Not that stapling paper to a few frames would have been hard, but it helps me to justify it :heehee:
> 
> I'll confirm the exact cost once I get the invoice on delivery, which hopefully will be in another week or so.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


WOW Simon, that's quite a bit extra over the standard Ultratel!!
The last quote I got for the plain material was $199.00 / pack of 3..
With the amount of area you're looking at, that's going to be a very expensive job..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> WOW Simon, that's quite a bit extra over the standard Ultratel!!
> The last quote I got for the plain material was $199.00 / pack of 3..
> With the amount of area you're looking at, that's going to be a very expensive job..


Hey prof

it is a bit extra but I'm only getting the one pack with acoustituff facing for the rear wall. 

Cheers
Simon
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## raZorTT

my 6 zone Lutron Grafik Eye QS has arrived :bigsmile:

Lutron GE QS 
Profile 
Controls

With a little luck the electrician will come early next week to install it.

My planned zones are:

1. Star ceiling
2. Light tray
3. Soffit lights
4. Main downlights (in ceiling)
5. Step lights
6. Screen wash

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Make sure you put in the deepest box you can get. That thing is thick and LOTS of wires in there. Some people actually use 2 boxes.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Make sure you put in the deepest box you can get. That thing is thick and LOTS of wires in there. Some people actually use 2 boxes.
> 
> Bryan


Hi Bryan,

I picked up the gang box at the same time does that usually suffice? Or will it still be a pretty tight fit?

Gang box 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Looks pretty deep but hard to say. When I did mine, the standard depth box wasn't going to work. Had to hunt a while to find an extra deep one. 

The folks that use the 2nd box use it to tie grounds outside the main box.

How deep is the one you have?

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Looks pretty deep but hard to say. When I did mine, the standard depth box wasn't going to work. Had to hunt a while to find an extra deep one.
> 
> The folks that use the 2nd box use it to tie grounds outside the main box.
> 
> How deep is the one you have?
> 
> Bryan


It's nearly 4" high, 8" wide and 3" deep.

3" doesn't sound very deep when you have factor in the back of the GE sitting in there :sweat:

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> my 6 zone Lutron Grafik Eye QS has arrived :bigsmile:
> 
> Lutron GE QS
> Profile
> Controls
> 
> With a little luck the electrician will come early next week to install it.
> 
> My planned zones are:
> 
> 1. Star ceiling
> 2. Light tray
> 3. Soffit lights
> 4. Main downlights (in ceiling)
> 5. Step lights
> 6. Screen wash
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Very nice Simon..:T 
Did you get the unit locally somewhere?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Very nice Simon..:T
> Did you get the unit locally somewhere?


Hi Prof,

No I bought it from the UK. 

http://www.mr-resistor.co.uk/ 

They have a fantastic range of lighting products. I'm considering some of the LED ropelight for my light tray and step lights. Their customer service was excellent and they dispatched it within 2 hours of me ringing my CC through. It was in Sydney waiting customs clearance on Monday after me ringing through the Thursday night.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

That is good service


3" deep is about as good as you'll get. I have a 4 zone in a 3" deep box and we had to be very careful about laying the wires the back just so, so that it would fit in the box right. We didn't tag all the grounds outside though.

Bryan


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Hi Prof,
> 
> No I bought it from the UK.
> 
> http://www.mr-resistor.co.uk/
> 
> They have a fantastic range of lighting products. I'm considering some of the LED ropelight for my light tray and step lights. Their customer service was excellent and they dispatched it within 2 hours of me ringing my CC through. It was in Sydney waiting customs clearance on Monday after me ringing through the Thursday night.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Good stuff!..
Thanks for the link..They have some really nice gear..:T
Good to hear that you got good fast service as well..
Always handy to know who you can rely on with OS sellers..


----------



## raZorTT

Quick update,

I had the electrician round this morning to take a look at the grafik eye. 
He was pleasantly surprised with how easy it looked. Hopefully he doesn't eat his words 

I just noticed that the lights I have to go into the ceiling are 12V, not 240V like I thought. 
I need to do a bit of research to confirm the GE can dim a 12V lights. I'm pretty certain it can, but need to find out more details. At the same time i'll see what it can do with LEDs.

Electrician should be back in about 2 weeks to install it, which gives me a bit of time to work out where to put it 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Also the fidelio velvet I ordered with jason_IB arrived in Melbourne yesterday. Hopefully it's being picked up by the couriers this afternoon and might make it to me by Friday. Fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Is that the US Fidelio velvet you bought?..If so, how long to it take to arrive?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof,

Yep it's the velvet from the US. It only took 6 or 7 days to get to Melbourne. Was pretty quick once it actually got shipped. They sent it via fedex. I think it was about $500USD shipping for the two rolls

Wonder how it stacks up against the velvet in Al's (I think) thread. Not sure that the fidelio would be AT though.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Hey Prof,
> 
> Yep it's the velvet from the US. It only took 6 or 7 days to get to Melbourne. Was pretty quick once it actually got shipped. They sent it via fedex. I think it was about $500USD shipping for the two rolls
> 
> Wonder how it stacks up against the velvet in Al's (I think) thread. Not sure that the fidelio would be AT though.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


6 or 7 days turn around is very good..
Wow!!..$500USD...That's a lot of velvet!!..How many metres did you get!!?


----------



## raZorTT

About 25m on each roll.

It's the volume that hurts shipping wise.

Actually while I think of it. Do you think it's still worthwhile to treat the ceiling first reflection point if the panel is covered with velvet instead of something like GOM?

Am I wasting a sheet of ultratel by putting it behind velvet?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

I would think that the ceiling reflection point should be treated similarly as the sidewall reflection point..
In which case I wouldn't use the velvet (unless it has an open weave) the GOM would be more appropriate..or of course Al's velvet..and definitely put some Ultratel underneath..Just like a sidewall acoustic panel..


----------



## raZorTT

I'm not sure how open the weave is. I suspect not very 

I guess i'll just have to try the old breath test once it gets here 

I don't really want to have the majority of the panels covered in velvet and a couple covered in GOM. The colour difference would stand out like.. well you know.

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hang on a minute..Are you planning on covering ALL your acoustic panels with this velvet?
If it's not open weave leave GOM is, you won't get the full absorptive effect from the ultratel..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hang on a minute..Are you planning on covering ALL your acoustic panels with this velvet?
> If it's not open weave leave GOM is, you won't get the full absorptive effect from the ultratel..


Hey Prof, 

No, the velvet is to cover my star ceiling panels on the ceiling. I'm in the process of ordering some GOM from bpape for the walls 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

:whew: You had me worried there for a moment..:bigsmile:

How far back from the screen will the star ceiling start?


----------



## raZorTT

The panels will start about 1m from the screen surrounded by a soffit and light tray.

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon...correct me if I'm wrong..

There will be a soffit/canopy above the top of the screen, extending approx. 1M. out..followed by the star ceiling panels..which will be suspended out from, and above the canopy.?
I presume that you're also planning to put some downlights in the canopy as well?

If this is the case, then it may not be practical to have a ceiling acoustic panel..
I would suggest that you cover the canopy with the velvet,(or at least the underside) which will reduce any light reflections..and of course filling the canopy with pink bats.. but other than that, I think you'll be fine..

The suspended star ceiling itself will also work as a type of acoustic barrier, so I don't think you'll need anything else..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof.

That's pretty much exactly what I am planning (I think  )

Soffit frame 

The false screen wall will be on the left of the pic and will extend from the stage to the bottom of the soffit. As you suggested i'll be stuffing it full of pink batts or equivalent

These are the downlights I plan on using. If you look on the sides, the mesh angles that sit on top of the plasterboard ceiling are adjustable so I should be able to lower them so they are flush with the star panels 

Main downlights 

The lights are just back from where the first reflection treatment would end. I already think the system sound good in a few of my tests so once I get the majority of treatments done I probably won't notice if there isn't any on the ceiling.

Thanks Prof!

Simon


----------



## Prof.

That's some pretty fancy lighting..:T
Are they set up in banks of 3, or can they be separated..?


----------



## raZorTT

On the back/top each fitting has it's own connector so you could wire up each light individually if you wanted.

They're low voltage fittings which means I have to get a transformer that will work with the grafik eye. Magnetic low voltage transformers appear to be hooked straight in. Where an electronic low voltage transformer needs an interface between it and the GE.

I might leave that decision to the electrician :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## albriscoe

Hi Simon

thats one great looking HT your building there, with regards to the velvet and I know you have yours now please ask me if you want a sample of the Devore sending over for comparison and I `ll send you some.

The lighting you have chosen is excellent as well, the Lutron stuff is very good. I used *ILight* in my house build which we found is brilliant as well, very controllable with colour touch screen interface. Each room has at least 8 different lighting scennes all of which are programmable :T

You buy dimming racks to suit your needs and all external wiring is Cat5 so very cheap to first fix.

Anyway looking really good cheers Al


----------



## raZorTT

albriscoe said:


> Hi Simon
> 
> thats one great looking HT your building there, with regards to the velvet and I know you have yours now please ask me if you want a sample of the Devore sending over for comparison and I `ll send you some.
> 
> The lighting you have chosen is excellent as well, the Lutron stuff is very good. I used *ILight* in my house build which we found is brilliant as well, very controllable with colour touch screen interface. Each room has at least 8 different lighting scennes all of which are programmable :T
> 
> You buy dimming racks to suit your needs and all external wiring is Cat5 so very cheap to first fix.
> 
> Anyway looking really good cheers Al


Thanks Al,

I Appreciate the kind words 

Things are moving very slowly at the moment :foottap:

Thanks for offering to send a sample of the velvet, I think i'll take you up on it.

I've never heard of Ilight, it looks the goods. A similar setup to Clispal and Dynalite here in Australia. Are you able to program it yourself? Clipsal and Dynalite require the installers to do the programming :sad2:

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## albriscoe

raZorTT said:


> Thanks Al,
> 
> I Appreciate the kind words
> 
> Things are moving very slowly at the moment :foottap:
> 
> Thanks for offering to send a sample of the velvet, I think i'll take you up on it.
> 
> I've never heard of Ilight, it looks the goods. A similar setup to Clispal and Dynalite here in Australia. Are you able to program it yourself? Clipsal and Dynalite require the installers to do the programming :sad2:
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


 Ilight is very good Simon albeit a liitle expensive if I`m honest 

Its easy to program if you are a scientist :R which I aren`t so we did a deal when ordering as my son installed it for a client and we got it done for free and a teaching course for my son at the same time. I seem to remember that programming alone was around £1000 and the Ilight kit alone was about £9000 then discounted to £6500 which is still a fair old chunk or money.

Send us your address via pm and I`ll get the sample to you asap.

cheers Al :T


----------



## jasonmac

Hi Simon,

I've enjoyed reading your build.

Do you have a floor plan of your house? I'm interested in seeing how a HT extension fits in with the rest of your house. I'm thinking of purchasing within the next 6 months and would like to do something similar.

Cheers,
Jason


----------



## raZorTT

jasonmac said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> I've enjoyed reading your build.
> 
> Do you have a floor plan of your house? I'm interested in seeing how a HT extension fits in with the rest of your house. I'm thinking of purchasing within the next 6 months and would like to do something similar.
> 
> Cheers,
> Jason


Hi Jason,

Thanks, hopefully you have taken something away from it :T

I don't have a floor plan handy, but it wasn't anything too exciting. We literally just built the room onto the side of the house. The floor level of the existing house is around 600mm off the ground so that gave us the opportunity to drop the floor level (and raise the ceiling a fraction) in the theatre to achieve a 3m ceiling.

Once we had the room built I decided it would be easier if the riser matched the floor level in the existing house. 

Does that make sense? Was there anything in particular you wanted to know about?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## jasonmac

No, that's good info thanks . I'm just trying to come up with a list of things I need to look out for with my house purchase.


----------



## raZorTT

One thing to keep in mind is the boundaries on your potential block. I would have liked to make the room 1m longer, but wasn't able to due to boundaries.

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Sorry about the lack of updates guys. 

The framing, MDF and ultratel should be delivered this friday , so with any luck things might actually start to happen. My builder's (dad) footy season has finished up so hopefully he'll be available a lot more over the remainder of the year.

The plan is:

Frame up the soffits
Frame up the screen wall
Build some steps down from the riser
Build a few star ceiling panels 
Build the light tray
 
Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Not much to do at all really...:rofl2:


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof,

I can't wait to kick things off. The room has been in the same state for way too long!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## jasonmac

Remember... hammer in one hand and camera in the other :bigsmile:


----------



## raZorTT

Delivery, hooooray!

Framing 
Insulation 

4 packs of Ultratel and 1 pack of ultratel with acoustituff 

I also got a few sheets of MDF for the star ceiling 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Now there's no excuse..get cracking!.:bigsmile:


----------



## raZorTT

One quick pic of the ultratel with the acoustituff facing.

acoustituff


----------



## Prof.

Is that a dark colour facing..or is it just the lighting in the shot?


----------



## bpape

Looks like standard FSK silver facing.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Is that a dark colour facing..or is it just the lighting in the shot?


Hey Prof,

It's a silver facing, the photo makes it look darker.



bpape said:


> Looks like standard FSK silver facing.


Hi Bryan,

It's probably exactly the same, they probably just give it a fancy name so they can charge more.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I got a delivery yesterday afternoon :T:T:T:T The Guillford of Maine fabric I ordered.

Huge thanks to bpape for organising things at his end and shipping 2 HUGE cartons down under. I would recommend anyone that might be considering fabrics for walls or treatments to get in touch with Bryan, he was a pleasure to deal with. Oh and it's a good exchange rate for us Aussie's atm 

GOM opened 
Burgandy roll
Burgandy closeup
Black closeup 

I wish I could get cracking on construction.. Hopefully in 2 or 3 weeks! This real life stuff is really a HT speed hump 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Yeah! Finally got there. 

Have fun and keep us posted with pics.

Bryan


----------



## Prof.

That's good news Simon..
The GOM looks to be quite a lot thicker than I imagined and very similar to a material called "Front Runner"..that's used on moveable office partitions..
Do you know the material I'm speaking about?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof,

I have certainly come across my fair share of office partitions covered in fabric , but as yet haven't come across a fabric that is similar to GOM.

I just did a quick google for front runner and that's the stuff they are using on the cubicles in my current job. I'd say the front runner would be twice as think, if not more than the GOM. 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Jason IB

Hey Simon! The GOM looks great. But looks much better in person. I can't wait to get started on my screen wall. Looking forward to your next update.


----------



## raZorTT

Hi guys,

Here are a couple of photos of my Grafik Eye QS that I just got back from the electrician. He wired it up with plug bases so we could test out different types of lights quickly.

GE with plug packs 
Zones and power wired up 
Another wiring angle 
Let there be light! 

Zones:

1 - Downlight that is wired up to an iron core (MLV) transformer.
2 - Standard rope light.
3 - Star ceiling.

I'm going to use MLV (magnetic) transformers on any low voltage lights as opposed to an ELV (electronic) transformer. ELV requires an extra lutron interface on each zone which could become expensive very quickly.

Zones 1 and 2 are both setup to dim and do a really smooth job of it. The 3rd zone is setup to be an on or off zone.

It's amazing how long you can just sit there dimming lights 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nice one Simon..:T
Are those power sockets off the unit going to remain as shown..or were they just for testing purposes.?


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof.

He will hard wire all the downlight zones when I'm ready to have the downlights installed (after building the soffits). I will need to keep two or three zones with plugs or power points on the ends for the Star ceiling, light tray and step rope light 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I am trying to decide if I want to buy an AT screen and have my speakers behind or buy a normal screen and place the speakers beside and/or below.

I was wondering if anyone can recommend some good movies/scenes to test out the sound stage with speakers in various positions.

I have looked at the dolby recommendations for speaker placement and they recommend the L+R between 22 and 30 degrees from your listening position. The THX viewing angle recommendations (for scope) start at about 18 degrees (36 in total). So that would suggest to me that perhaps on the side of the screen would be better.

On the other hand a lot of people have said having the speakers behind the screen locates the sound better and gives it more impact with what is happening on the screen.

So I guess I need to test it out at various angles to see if I can notice the difference.

Any suggestions or experiences appreciated.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

The 36 degree included viewing angle is the absolute least they want to see. How big you actually go depends on what the PJ will do and if you're a front, middle, or rear of the theater watcher in a commercial cinema.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Bryan,

I usually find my way to the second or third row in the second tier of commercial cinemas. So I guess that's probably right around the middle? So maybe in the 36-40degree range?

What I was thinking was making the second row right around the 36 degree mark, which with my room dimensions would put the front row at around 44-45. Is that too large?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> On the other hand a lot of people have said having the speakers behind the screen locates the sound better and gives it more impact with what is happening on the screen.


That's the way I would go Simon..particularly if you make your own AT screen..

I recently contacted Chris at AVSeymour and it worked out, including delivery, about the same cost as buying a sheet of Designer White laminate here!!

People who have AT screens, do say as you mentioned that they get a much better and more realistic sound stage..


----------



## bbieger

I'm in the same debate right now in terms of AT screen or not. It seems to me that the false wall and AT Screen is a great solution to a lot of problems. It will give you much more room to move your speakers around and you don't have to worry about making your acoustic treatments look nice. Lastly, With the screen framed in, you could fairly easily just buy some nice screen fabric, install it, then frame the screen (and the rest of the wall) with AT cloth. I recently saw some nice looking AT cloth Cinematic? on the internet. Looked a whole lot nicer than the standard "burlap" looking fabric.

Lastly, you could always put a light back there and turn it on before or after the movie for that "how cool is that effect" when all your audio equipment shows up through the screen.


----------



## raZorTT

FINALLY SOME PROGRESS IN THE ROOM!!

I am very happy to report we have actually been able to start some construction in the theatre over the weekend 

First up I grabbed a trusty chalk line and marked out the dimensions for the soffits/star ceiling.

We then ripped some 90mmx35mm framing in half to start the soffit construction.

Construction has begun 
One side done 
Towards the screen 

We weren't able to work on the room the whole weekend due to other commitments but we managed to get the frames for the sides and rear soffit up.
We left a gap in the rear soffit to enable me to mount the project. I'm still not 100% sure which projector and how i'll mount it so leaving the gap was the most flexible. I expect we will be able to make a small box to cover up the project once it's finally mounted. Something that is removable and will allow me to access it if needed.

Rear soffit 
Soffit corner 
Fibre gap 

Just to the right of the projector space is a gap of about 300mm where I plan to run the optic fibre for the star ceiling. I will be mounting the LED modules up there in the soffit which will allow me to feed the bundles of fibre through the gap and into the panels.

Next step is to get the front done so I can start making the star ceiling . Am looking forward to that, because I can do that by myself after work. Should be soothing installing 800 odd stars :coocoo:

I'm going to make the star panels out of 12mm MDF, so am trying to work out the best way to mount them. I'd like them to be removable if I ever needed to replace any fibres or got a colour star module to add later. I think i'm leaning towards some sort of cleat system. Any thoughts?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

So.. it's finally starting to take shape! 
I bet it feels good just to see the soffits going up..


raZorTT said:


> I'm going to make the star panels out of 12mm MDF, so am trying to work out the best way to mount them. I'd like them to be removable if I ever needed to replace any fibres or got a colour star module to add later. I think i'm leaning towards some sort of cleat system. Any thoughts?


Simon, the only thing that comes to mind is using that channel/angle system that's used for suspended ceiling panels..
I don't know what it's called, but you see it everywhere in offices, supermarkets etc, etc..which allows each panel to be removed independently of the other...
Probably a ceiling contractor could put you on the right track..

Keep the pics coming..


----------



## bpape

Are you going to be doing multiple panels or 1 large one? 

What you could do is just have angle irons around the perimeter and then trim over the edges so you don't see them. Remove the trim if you ever need to and you can pull the panels down. You can do what you want in the field, just need to get to the edge ones to open up access.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> So.. it's finally starting to take shape!
> I bet it feels good just to see the soffits going up..


Hey Prof,

It feels great! :T I find myself wandering in there all the time just to take another look.



Prof. said:


> Simon, the only thing that comes to mind is using that channel/angle system that's used for suspended ceiling panels..
> I don't know what it's called, but you see it everywhere in offices, supermarkets etc, etc..which allows each panel to be removed independently of the other...
> Probably a ceiling contractor could put you on the right track..
> 
> Keep the pics coming..


Yeah I'm staring at that setup right now at work. If I can get away with it i'd prefer not to have the channels in the middle. I guess I could trim them out and make it look like a massive window 



bpape said:


> Are you going to be doing multiple panels or 1 large one?
> 
> What you could do is just have angle irons around the perimeter and then trim over the edges so you don't see them. Remove the trim if you ever need to and you can pull the panels down. You can do what you want in the field, just need to get to the edge ones to open up access.
> 
> Bryan


Hi Bryan,

Do you have any pics of what you mean? 

I had planned to break it up into a 4x4 grid. Each panel will be about 1m2 (~3.3feet). How would the 4 panels that aren't attached to the perimeter be held up?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Do you guys think a small 35W / 12V downlight in MDF would be a danger?

I was planning on putting some lights in my light tray, but am wondering if they would burn too hot.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Yeah - I didn't know how many you were going to do, if they all had a little bit of a perimeter or not, etc. You could actually just attache them to the ceiling from above and just do the last one only held up by the perimeter. They'd have to come out in inverse order that they went in but it's workable.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

I might be able to work a cleat type system on the first 3 rows and then as you suggest attach the last one to the perimeter to hold it up.

I guess the likelyhood of me actually taking them down is pretty low, so I don't want to overcomplicate the end solution.


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Do you guys think a small 35W / 12V downlight in MDF would be a danger?
> 
> I was planning on putting some lights in my light tray, but am wondering if they would burn too hot.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Simon...I have 50W. Halogen downlights mounted in my MDF trays and they get pretty hot, but I've never had any problems..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof.

I'm glad you haven't had any issues, I didn't really want to have to relocate them into the bulk head.

With the grafik eye running things the chance of them being near full brightness is pretty slim.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I might be able to work a cleat type system on the first 3 rows and then as you suggest attach the last one to the perimeter to hold it up.
> 
> I guess the likelyhood of me actually taking them down is pretty low, so I don't want to overcomplicate the end solution.


With the panels being only 1M x 1M. and 12mm. thick, they should be self supporting, in which case all you need to do is to attach some timber droppers (probably just three per panel) to the ceiling and screw each panel to the droppers, using some black plated screws..
That way, each panel can be removed individually..
But I guess that will depend on how much spacing you have between each fibre optic..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> With the panels being only 1M x 1M. and 12mm. thick, they should be self supporting, in which case all you need to do is to attach some timber droppers (probably just three per panel) to the ceiling and screw each panel to the droppers, using some black plated screws..
> That way, each panel can be removed individually..
> But I guess that will depend on how much spacing you have between each fibre optic..


That's a good idea! 

If I plan ahead I could counter sink the holes in the PDF and after covering them with fabric cut the flap of fabric above the hole so once it is screwed in can cover up the screw head.

thanks Prof!


----------



## Prof.

That's what I did for my suspended ceiling tray..Only I used plasterboard..pre-drilled the holes and covered it with black velveteen..
I then pushed a scriber blade through the holes..The heads of the screws disappeared under the cloth..

I also used rectangular hangers as opposed to droppers...It made it easier to find a cross bar, instead of the end of a dropper..


----------



## Prof.

double post


----------



## raZorTT

Yeah i'm liking the idea more and more.. 

I'm starting to chop up the panels tonight. I jumped into photoshop and sliced my star map up into a 4 x 4 grid and exported each image seperately. Once I have the panels i'll project each image and mark the star positions.

Did you use spray adhesive to stick your velveteen? I plan on staples around the edges/back, but wasn't sure if I should glue as well? thoughts?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

No.. I didn't use spray adhesive..I stretched the material over to the back, and stapled it well clear of the edges..The edges tend to crumble if you staple too close to them, as I found out..:R

If you can though, I would adhere the cloth to the faces..It just keeps the material nice and flat..and then staple it on the back..


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon...I've just come across this persons way of mounting the panels..
It looks like he's using alum. "Z" channel for the mounting..
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17917329#post17917329


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof. what great timing!!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon...I've just come across this persons way of mounting the panels..
> It looks like he's using alum. "Z" channel for the mounting..
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17917329#post17917329


That looks like a really good solution, maybe i'll be better off with fewer panels.

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I was all pumped up after work to work out sizes of doing 4 panels instead of 16 when I discovered the MDF sheets were only 3.6m long and I needed them to be 3.8m 

I don't think they make sheets any longer than 3.6m either. So I guess I need to look at either joining 2 sheets together or making the star ceiling smaller and needing to modify my soffits 

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

After thinking about things last night I think the easiest thing to do will be to modify my soffits so that I can use a single sheet of MDF. 

I think all I will need to do is screw some timber to the top and bottom of the soffit to extend it. I'll need to add about 65mm to each side in order to close the gap enough. The last 50mm or so will be filled by the light tray

Soffit extension 

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yeah..I was only thinking about that last night!!..that you wouldn't get a sheet to go right across..but you could just cut down two 2.4M. sheets to fit across the room.?
That would make a total of 8 panels instead of 16!

If you're going to make it like he has, it would just require a double Z channel in the centre of the ceiling to support the panels..
One extra Z channel would be a lot easier to fit , than having to modify your soffits!

The other thing is that it will be a lot easier to handle a 2M. long panel, than a 3.6M panel!


----------



## raZorTT

Yeah i'm not sure which way to go now. 

Talking to my dad this morning and he didn't seem to keen to extend the soffit.

Maybe going 8 panels is more sensible. I mean will the seams really be noticeable unless you shine a light on them? 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon...When they're covered with black velvet, you won't even notice any seams..particularly when the starfield is operating..


----------



## raZorTT

We made some more progress on the weekend 

First thing we did was finish off the front soffit. The front soffit sit 1300mm off the wall versus 475mm for the sides and back. 
Front soffit 

Next we set to working out what to do with the star ceiling. After talking about how to mount it etc we changed our mind back to 4 large panels.... again. 

Rather than trying to close the gap we are joining two pieces of MDF together to form 1 large one. To join the two pieces we are using biscuits.

mmmm biscuits 

We chopped the 45 degree corners off before gluing the two pieces together.
Panel corner 

We then smoothered the biscuits, holes and joins with glue and wedged the two pieces together
Panel drying 

The panel is really heavy, so I've got my dad's gyprock lift for when we are set to do a test fit. Once it has dried i'm going to mark out the stars so we can work out where we can put cleats and supports.
I think we will build the other 4 panels and do a test fit of all of them before I cover them and thread through all of the fibres. Mind you that might change if test fitting the first is a big hassle 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Well the panel has dried and has turned out really well. I managed to man handle the panel off the ground and up against the wall. I'm lucky we didn't start building the screen wall before doing the star panels because the projector is as far back with the biggest zoom in the second pic and it JUST fits.

Here are a few pics

Panel ready for marking 
Panel with map projected on it 
Time for some countersinking 
When ants attack! 

I had counter sunk about 2/3 of the marked stars before my cordless drill (and extra batteries) went flat.
For the next 3 panels I'll be getting my hands on a corder drill 

I'm not sure if I should drill the holes through now or when I have the velvet on the other side. I'm thinking it might be better to do it now so that the dust created doesn't get all over the velvet. The downside to that is I will need some sharp wire or similar to poke a hole in the velvet when it comes time to start threading the fibre.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Well the panel has dried and has turned out really well. I managed to man handle the panel off the ground and up against the wall. I'm lucky we didn't start building the screen wall before doing the star panels because the projector is as far back with the biggest zoom in the second pic and it JUST fits.
> 
> Here are a few pics
> 
> Panel ready for marking
> Panel with map projected on it
> Time for some countersinking
> When ants attack!
> 
> I had counter sunk about 2/3 of the marked stars before my cordless drill (and extra batteries) went flat.
> For the next 3 panels I'll be getting my hands on a corder drill
> 
> I'm not sure if I should drill the holes through now or when I have the velvet on the other side. I'm thinking it might be better to do it now so that the dust created doesn't get all over the velvet. The downside to that is I will need some sharp wire or similar to poke a hole in the velvet when it comes time to start threading the fibre.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


That looks like a LOT of work Simon..and thats only one panel!! :bigsmile:
Nice drill BTW.:T

I would drill all your holes first before applying the velvet..As you say, it will get messy if you do it covered..
Also, the drill bit can grab the velvet if it's not adhered firmly and start to twist around the drill bit...as I found out the hard way!! :doh:

To poke holes through the velvet, try this test piece first..

Bond some velvet to a pre-drilled panel..and with a steel rod,(the same diam. as the hole) sharpened to a point..heat it up and then push it through the hole..
The result will depend on the materials used in the velvet..If it has Viscose or Polys, it should initially soften as the rod goes through, and then harden to form a clean hole..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> That looks like a LOT of work Simon..and thats only one panel!! :bigsmile:
> Nice drill BTW.:T
> 
> I would drill all your holes first before applying the velvet..As you say, it will get messy if you do it covered..
> Also, the drill bit can grab the velvet if it's not adhered firmly and start to twist around the drill bit...as I found out the hard way!! :doh:
> 
> To poke holes through the velvet, try this test piece first..
> 
> Bond some velvet to a pre-drilled panel..and with a steel rod,(the same diam. as the hole) sharpened to a point..heat it up and then push it through the hole..
> The result will depend on the materials used in the velvet..If it has Viscose or Polys, it should initially soften as the rod goes through, and then harden to form a clean hole..


Thanks Prof.

Hehe I think you are right, it is going to be a lot of work . Hopefully the end result will make it all worthwhile.

the damage to the velvet was another thing I was concerned about. I'm going to do the drilling with a dremel rather than a drill. Hopefully it will give me a little more control (and i'll be less inclined to snap the 1.2mm drill bit ). Counter sinking the hole as well means I only have about 6-7mm to get through which is nice.

Thanks for the tip (no pun intended) with the hole creation. As you said I think I need a test pieces to try out the various methods.

So did you end up sticking your velvet down? I was wondering how you did that? I'm a bit worried about trying to cover such a large panel. I have the 3m adhesive spray which is amazing but pretty unforgiving. I'll have to try and do it in small sections. I wonder if putting brown/kraft paper on straight after spraying the glue would help? I have seen a few people use that method when doing timber veneers.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> So did you end up sticking your velvet down? I was wondering how you did that? I'm a bit worried about trying to cover such a large panel. I have the 3m adhesive spray which is amazing but pretty unforgiving. I'll have to try and do it in small sections. I wonder if putting brown/kraft paper on straight after spraying the glue would help? I have seen a few people use that method when doing timber veneers.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


I did use spray adhesive, but only on the panel..None on the velvet..
If you spray it on both surfaces, it tends to bond too quickly, which makes it difficult to stretch tightly..
I stretched it over the back and stapled it down..and then just pressed the velvet to the face of the panel..


----------



## raZorTT

Ah that has probably been my problem, I have sprayed both surfaces and waited until they were tacky before sticking the surfaces together.

I guess the glue is only really there to stop it sagging, the staples will do most of the work!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

That's it!!..


----------



## bpape

GREAT results always take more than average work. FORTUNATELY, work is cheap relative to the rest of the world. Hang in there

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Bryan 

Patience is certainly one thing I have on my side. I have been waiting 3 years to start this work 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I grabbed a scrap piece of MDF yesterday afternoon and stuck a small piece of velvet to it so I could test drilling the holes.

I pre drilled a few holes using a dremel (1.2mm and .8mm drill bit) before sticking the velvet to test if pushing something through would be enough to puncture it.

I wasn't able to push the fibres through the fabric on their own, so I thought i would see what effect the dremel would have on the velvet. Both re drilling through the pre dilled holes and drilling fresh holes resulted in very clean holes on the velvet side. I suspect that the very high RPM of the dremel means it doesn't grip and tear at the fabric as it drills through.

Seeing as there isn't a visible difference between the two methods, there wasn't any real dust on it either, i'm going to cover the panels first and then drill the holes.

I test fit a couple pieces of fibre and the countersinking will really help keep all the fibres close to the panel.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I grabbed a scrap piece of MDF yesterday afternoon and stuck a small piece of velvet to it so I could test drilling the holes.
> 
> I pre drilled a few holes using a dremel (1.2mm and .8mm drill bit) before sticking the velvet to test if pushing something through would be enough to puncture it.
> 
> I wasn't able to push the fibres through the fabric on their own, so I thought i would see what effect the dremel would have on the velvet. Both re drilling through the pre dilled holes and drilling fresh holes resulted in very clean holes on the velvet side. I suspect that the very high RPM of the dremel means it doesn't grip and tear at the fabric as it drills through.
> 
> Seeing as there isn't a visible difference between the two methods, there wasn't any real dust on it either, i'm going to cover the panels first and then drill the holes.
> 
> I test fit a couple pieces of fibre and the countersinking will really help keep all the fibres close to the panel.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


It looks like the Dremmel is the answer..The higher speed obviously helps but the very small holes also helps..
I think it's larger size holes and drills that tend to grab..

Being able to drill right through the velvet and MDF in one application will certainly make the job easier..:T


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof.

Did you treat your wall behind your screen? I'm waiting for my last 3 star panels to dry and was thinking of doing some work on the treatments.
Wall treatment 

I'm trying to work out the best way to attach the sheets of ultratel to the back wall?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I've lost all my angle pics etc for working out how high the bottom of the screen should be off the floor.

Can any one help? Is it the eyes should be in line with the bottom third of the screen?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

General rule of thumb that I use is 1/3 up the screen is optimal. Somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 is acceptable. 

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> General rule of thumb that I use is 1/3 up the screen is optimal. Somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 is acceptable.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan,

I started cutting up my insulation for the corner traps yesterday 

Is it a good idea to have a gap between the trap and the wall? Or is it better to push them right into the corner?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

If you're doing the 17x17x24 chunks, just lay them right in the corner. Those will take the same amount of material as a 6" thick panel straddling the corner for the same given height.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> If you're doing the 17x17x24 chunks, just lay them right in the corner. Those will take the same amount of material as a 6" thick panel straddling the corner for the same given height.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan,

Yep i'm doing the 17x17x24 triangles  I just wasn't sure if there was anything gained by building a little frame to keep them from actually touching the walls.

Traps

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Not really. It might help a tiny bit in the deepest bass but not likely worth the hassle. Now, if you want to extend things, plan on double the amount of 703. Cut each 2x4 into 4 triangles instead of 8. Each will then be 24x24x34" triangles and offer probably another 1/2 octave or so of usable performance, maybe more.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Ok thanks Bryan.

I've already cut up 2/3 of the 17x17x24 triangles 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Guess you're going that way then 

Bryan


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Hey Prof.
> 
> Did you treat your wall behind your screen? I'm waiting for my last 3 star panels to dry and was thinking of doing some work on the treatments.
> 
> Wall treatment
> 
> I'm trying to work out the best way to attach the sheets of ultratel to the back wall?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Simon,

When I did my front wall, I placed the floor to ceiling bass traps in the corners first and then covered the rest of the wall with insulation..

If you're not using any timber framing for the back panels, then you might have to bond the Ultratel to a backing board, before covering the panels with cloth..
Then the panels can be attached to the wall with some industrial strength Velcro..

Are these going to be individual panels or are you covering the whole wall and then fitting the cloth over the whole areal?


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Guess you're going that way then
> 
> Bryan





Prof. said:


> When I did my front wall, I placed the floor to ceiling bass traps in the corners first and then covered the rest of the wall with insulation..


Corner traps done! Needed three and a quarter sheets of ultratel.

one trap
both traps 



Prof. said:


> If you're not using any timber framing for the back panels, then you might have to bond the Ultratel to a backing board, before covering the panels with cloth..
> Then the panels can be attached to the wall with some industrial strength Velcro..
> 
> Are these going to be individual panels or are you covering the whole wall and then fitting the cloth over the whole areal?


I'm going to cover the whole wall from the bottom of the soffit to the floor with ultratel. Then the plan was to cover it with fabric so it looks reasonable (not that anyone will ever see behind the screen wall)

I need to go to spotlight to find out how wide that loudspeaker/grill cloth is so I can work out where I might need to put some framing for staples. I wasn't planning on doing individual panels for this wall.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

What about the back wall. Are you planning to cover the whole wall with insulation..and then covering it with cloth?


----------



## raZorTT

I bought the ultratel with acoustituff facing to cover the back wall 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I bought the ultratel with acoustituff facing to cover the back wall
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Yes, but weren't you asking about how to attach the insulation to the back wall.?



> I'm trying to work out the best way to attach the sheets of ultratel to the *back wall*?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Yes, but weren't you asking about how to attach the insulation to the back wall.?


Whoops, I meant back behind the screen wall :dumbcrazy:

Sorry for the confusion :T


----------



## bpape

To start with, I'd get some 1x2 or 1x3 and rip it at 45 degrees on the 1x sides to make a parallelogram to hold the corners of the triangles in place and give you a place to attach cloth. For the rest, kinda depends on how you're going to mount your screen. Going to try to really flush mount to the wall and have it looked recessed in the cloth covering?

Bryan


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Whoops, I meant back behind the screen wall :dumbcrazy:
> 
> Sorry for the confusion :T


Not a problem..I just mounted my insulation to the front with long screws and large flat aluminium washers under the screw heads..Worked a treat!


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> To start with, I'd get some 1x2 or 1x3 and rip it at 45 degrees on the 1x sides to make a parallelogram to hold the corners of the triangles in place and give you a place to attach cloth. For the rest, kinda depends on how you're going to mount your screen. Going to try to really flush mount to the wall and have it looked recessed in the cloth covering?
> 
> Bryan


Bryan,

Thanks for the tip on holding in the trianlges. I had them fall on me once yesterday before I put a temporary piece of timber down one edge.

For the screen I'm going to frame up a false wall to mount it to. Then I'll build some panels and cover with the GOM. I have been trying to find people who have mounted their screen on the inside of false walls because i'm interested in doing some horizontal masking down the track. I have found a few people with masking but they generally haven't had any screen mounting details.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Not a problem..I just mounted my insulation to the front with long screws and large flat aluminium washers under the screw heads..Worked a treat!


Thanks Prof

I think that's probably what i'll do as well.

My dad did mention some fancy insulation holder yesterday that attaches to the surface first, then you push the insulation on and screw on a disc to keep it in place. However if they cost more than a screw and washer I don't think i'll bother 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I was in Melbourne and Sydney for two of the last three weekends so progress slowed down a bit on the star ceiling 

I have all of the panels covered and all of the holes drilled 

Ready to be stapled 
Ready for fiber 

On Sunday night I started running the fibres to the first panel. I severely underestimated how long it would take me to run the fiber. I thought maybe an hour, hour and a half max. I took closer to four hours to run the fibers and glue them in place.

I think there were only 150+ stars in this panel, so I have around 650 to go 

The fibers 
Glued in place 
Sort of organised  

I've built myself a couple of stands to do the next three panels so hopefully the time (and back pain) will be reduced 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon,

Looking good! :T
Very tedious work from the sounds of it! :sweat:
What type of glue did you use to attach the fibres.?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Looking good! :T
> Very tedious work from the sounds of it! :sweat:
> What type of glue did you use to attach the fibres.?


Thanks prof :T

It'll be worth it in the end :bigsmile:

In the end I used an extra strength aquadhere which is basically just a wood glue. I tried araldite, which worked really well but was a pain because you need to mix the two parts together in small batches. I also gave supa glue a try but it didn't dry a hard as I thought and I think might have reacted with the fiber.

The aquadhere dried clear and while not quite as strong as the araldite, it is more than strong enough to hold a fiber in place . It comes in a nice big squeeze bottle too, so only took my 5mins to glue them all 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Ah!!.good ole Aquadhere!! I use it for just about everything!!:bigsmile:
It was probably the safest glue to use as some of those other glues might have reacted to the fibre optic cladding!

Looking forward to some update pics..


----------



## raZorTT

Howdy folks,

A little bit of progress since the last post.

I have just started threading my third star panel  With a little luck i'll be able to finish 3 and 4 this weekend and we can start thinking about actually attaching them to the ceiling. I hooked up the second panel the other night to get a sense of what it would look like and I was blown away 

Unfortunately the pics I took were hopeless, so i'll probably have to wait until it goes up on the ceiling.

The electrician came over on Tuesday to start weaving his magic with my lighting and grafik eye. He's run all but the wire for step light. He hasn't hooked up the transformers and lights yet, which is probably because we haven't put the light tray up yet 

I spoke to him about putting 35W downlights in wood rather than gyprock and he's going to check it out. If he comes back and says i'm not allowed to do it I might have to install some small pieces of gyprock on the bottom of the soffit to hold the lights. If I do have to go this route is there a problem if GOM touches the downlight? Not the part that actually holds the bulb, but the outer edge (I can't think of the right word)?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

If it's an IC rated can, it should be OK. The FR701-2100 series is Class A fire and smoke rated. Other GOM products are not necessarily. You really don't have to get that close though. You can fold and attach back from the can itself but still be under the trim ring to hide the edge. 

Bryan


----------



## bbieger

Bpape beat me to the punch. Should be just fine. I thought ic rated lights ran hotter? Or perhaps that's the air tight that is hotter. At any rate, the aluminum dissipates heat rapidly. No touch, no problem. 

I'm excited to see your star ceiling!! You guys with headroom make me jealous 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## Prof.

Simon,
The rim of my 50W. down lights go over the velvet on the centre ceiling panel..Haven't had any heat problems..You should be fine..:T

really looking forward to seeing all the panels lit up!


----------



## raZorTT

bbieger said:


> Bpape beat me to the punch. Should be just fine. I thought ic rated lights ran hotter? Or perhaps that's the air tight that is hotter. At any rate, the aluminum dissipates heat rapidly. No touch, no problem.
> 
> I'm excited to see your star ceiling!! You guys with headroom make me jealous





bpape said:


> If it's an IC rated can, it should be OK. The FR701-2100 series is Class A fire and smoke rated. Other GOM products are not necessarily. You really don't have to get that close though. You can fold and attach back from the can itself but still be under the trim ring to hide the edge.
> 
> Bryan





Prof. said:


> Simon,
> The rim of my 50W. down lights go over the velvet on the centre ceiling panel..Haven't had any heat problems..You should be fine..:T
> 
> really looking forward to seeing all the panels lit up!



Thanks for the confirmation guys!

I didn't quite finish the last panel on the weekend, but I should be able to knock it over during the week, which hopefully means we can try and hoist them up on the weekend :T :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hi guys,

Well on Sunday we set about installing the star ceiling.

Originally we had planned to use a sort of french cleat arrangement to hold the panels up. The problem with this is that usually a cleat is on a wall and gravity keeps the two pieces of wood together. But mounting it on a ceiling means that gravity is no longer your friend . While technically it probably would still work, the issue is once you hoist it up in place you have to have something hold it in place otherwise the panel will just slide down the cleat and will fall to the floor.

So off to bunnings we go to find an alternate solution. What we ended up getting was 6 x 3m lengths of aluminium shaped like a C (but square obviously  ). 

Aluminium 

We drilled a hole through both sides of the aluminium and then drilled a larger hole on the bottom side so the head of the screw and drill bit would fit through when we went to attach it to the ceiling.
We ran the lengths of aluminium from front to back which as it turns out is across the ceiling batons 

Tracks installed on the ceiling
Close up

For the panels we cut a bunch of small aluminium pieces about 100mm in length. The added bonus of only needing small pieces for the panel was that it makes it very each to manouver the fibres around them. 

To minimise the chance of any vibration between the aluminium I also grabbed some rubber from the weatherseal section.

Weatherseal
Seal installed

After we had attached all the pieces to the panel it was time to ready the gyprock lift!

Lift

After we had it hoisted up into place we had to fiddle around for about an hour trying to get everything square and also flat so that all of the tracks would slide together properly. Actually probably one thing I would do differently is buy some slightly larger aluminium if I had to do it again. The stuff we got was 12mm, I think 15mm or maybe even bigger would have made locking them in a bit easier. Ah well, live and learn. Hopefully mentioning it might make someones life easier 

Hoisted up

Like everything HT it seems to take at least twice as long as you think it will, so we only got one panel up. I did however jump up on a ladder and snip all the fibre ends off using some nail clippers. I then hooked it up to the light source to see how it would all look and I must say i'm VERY happy with the results. It's hard to photograph (especially while it's still daylight)

Installed 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nice job Simon..It's gradually all coming together..:T

As soon as I saw the aluminium channel idea, I thought..these panels are going to vibrate!,:bigsmile: but you had already solved the problem with the weather strips..:T
How did you attach the weather shield strip to the aluminium channel.?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Nice job Simon..It's gradually all coming together..:T
> 
> As soon as I saw the aluminium channel idea, I thought..these panels are going to vibrate!,:bigsmile: but you had already solved the problem with the weather strips..:T
> How did you attach the weather shield strip to the aluminium channel.?


Thanks Prof, slowly but surely :T

The bonus with the weather striping was it already had adhesive on it, so I just peeled of the backing and stuck it inside each piece :T

I think we should be able to get the next 2 panels up in a couple hours, but I'm expecting the last one to need some TLC considering the gaps all around are going to be pretty small. 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Well I only had my helper for a couple of hours again on the weekend, so only had enough time to get panel #2 up in place.

We managed to get it up and into the channels pretty quickly this time around, but then as we were trying to push the 2nd panel together with the 1st, so the biscuits went into the holes on panel #1, we couldn't get them closer than 1cm apart. In the end it finally went together while I jiggled the panel and my dad was taping it with a hammer.

I think the issue was the screw heads that were holding the aluminium on the ceiling might have been getting in the way. Another thing that probably could have been avoided if we'd gone with slightly larger aluminium.

It's awful difficult to photograph little dots in a pitch black room but here are my attempts.

dots 
looking back to the light source 

You can see in the second pic the glowing fibres running back to the light source.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bbieger

WOW! that is seriously cool!!


----------



## raZorTT

bbieger said:


> WOW! that is seriously cool!!


Thanks bbieger :T I'm really happy with it so far.

After posting up the photos last night I had a play with some of the settings on the light source. I currently have 6 of the 20 LEDs going. I played with the twinkle settings of two of them and managed to get a really cool pulse effect going. I say pulse rather than twinkle because I tweaked it so the stars just fade down a little, rather than turning off completely :T:T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I think the issue was the screw heads that were holding the aluminium on the ceiling might have been getting in the way. Another thing that probably could have been avoided if we'd gone with slightly larger aluminium.


Always a trap for young players... I've been caught out like that a few times myself and I'm not young!! :R
I think it's going to look smashin' when it's all done..Can't wait to see the finished job..
Keep 'er going Simon!


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Thanks bbieger :T I'm really happy with it so far.
> 
> After posting up the photos last night I had a play with some of the settings on the light source. I currently have 6 of the 20 LEDs going. I played with the twinkle settings of two of them and managed to get a really cool pulse effect going. I say pulse rather than twinkle because I tweaked it so the stars just fade down a little, rather than turning off completely :T:T
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


That's a Pro. job! :T


----------



## bpape

Its a LOT of work but it's really sweet when you get done - kind of like the rest of the theater :jiggy:

Nicely done.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Always a trap for young players... I've been caught out like that a few times myself and I'm not young!! :R


Hopefully I can save others from similar minor dramas :T



Prof. said:


> I think it's going to look smashin' when it's all done..Can't wait to see the finished job..
> Keep 'er going Simon!





Prof. said:


> That's a Pro. job! :T


Thanks Prof 

I say this every week, but hopefully I can get it finished this weekend 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Its a LOT of work but it's really sweet when you get done - kind of like the rest of the theater :jiggy:
> 
> Nicely done.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan 

I now truely appreciate why people build threads span years 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

The star ceiling is up!! 

Here are some pics from our work today.

Pic of the two channels together.
Hooked up 

We attached all the small pieces of aluminium to the panels and taped down the fibres to make sure they didn't get hooked up or pulled out during installation.
Panel channel 

The fibres from the first two panels taped up out of the way
Fibres taped up 

All four panels up! Time to snip off the fibres, fun :sarcastic:
Time to snip 

Another shot of the four panels.
Four panels installed 

And the best shot of all, all 4 panels installed with fibres hooked up to the light sources   
Final stars 

I'm absolutely wrapped with the final result. I still have to mount the lights sources etc in the soffits and clean up the fibre bundle, but the hard work is now done! :T:T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Nicely done. Tha's another great motivator once you get a chunk like this done.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Nicely done. Tha's another great motivator once you get a chunk like this done.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan  

Now I can move onto treating the front and side walls 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

VERY nice Simon!!.:T :T
You could almost believe that you're looking at the night sky!!
Well done!! :clap: :clap: :clap:


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> VERY nice Simon!!.:T :T
> You could almost believe that you're looking at the night sky!!
> Well done!! :clap: :clap: :clap:


Thanks Prof.

It really looks great, with a few brightness tweaks and a couple pulsing stars and I think people will forget that there is actually a ceiling there 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Hi Simon,

Moggie here (from AVS forum)... I made it! Just read your whole thread and I was right about the theater looking great. The star ceiling looks fabulous and I bet that, because of the use of velvet, your seams are even more invisible than mine. I noticed Bryan posting in your thread -- too late now but did he ok the use of velvet on the ceiling? My understanding it absorbs a good deal of the HF which is the main reason I went with GOM FR701.

Cheers!


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Moggie here (from AVS forum)... I made it! Just read your whole thread and I was right about the theater looking great. The star ceiling looks fabulous and I bet that, because of the use of velvet, your seams are even more invisible than mine. I noticed Bryan posting in your thread -- too late now but did he ok the use of velvet on the ceiling? My understanding it absorbs a good deal of the HF which is the main reason I went with GOM FR701.
> 
> Cheers!


Hey Moggie! 

Thanks for posting , and thanks again for all the tips in building the panels, construction of mine wouldn't have been any where near as smooth without them!

I think the first time I read that in your thread my heart sank just a little . I had already had all the velvet there ready to go and shipping to Australia is a bit of a killer so had to push on. I wonder if there are any treatments (like scotch guard or similar) that could help?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Well I don't think it is all that important so long as you don't absorb too much of the highs elsewhere -- at least that is my understanding. I'm pretty sure you mentioned that Bryan was helping you so you are in good hands.

Anyway I'm going to follow along now since we are at similar points in our builds :T


----------



## bpape

While it's not optimal to have that much HF only absorption, like you said, you had to push on. I think we did enough other things in the room to not over-kill it that you'll be OK in the long run.

Bryan


----------



## chrapladm

WOW!!

Awesome build. I will definitely be using your thread as a go to for how to do things. I was going to do the same thing with the fibres night sky


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> While it's not optimal to have that much HF only absorption, like you said, you had to push on. I think we did enough other things in the room to not over-kill it that you'll be OK in the long run.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan, that put my mind at ease 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

chrapladm said:


> WOW!!
> 
> Awesome build. I will definitely be using your thread as a go to for how to do things. I was going to do the same thing with the fibres night sky


Thanks Papi,

I got a lot of inspiration from Moggie's build, i'd definitely recommend checking that out.

Have you started a build yet? Or are you just in planning stages?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## chrapladm

I will have to check out moggies HT build.

I am also only into the designing stage with a probable dimensions of 6m x 4mx 2.8. But with my false wall and speakers and sub behind it I will only have about 5m length so my screen will be much smaller than yours.

I love this forum. Seeing what others are capable of makes it seem like I might be able to do some of the stuff everyone else is doing. PLUS Prof is just "down the road," so to speak so I will be talking to him quite frequently to absorb so of his wealth of knowledge.

ONCE again Bravo on the lights!!!!!!!


----------



## raZorTT

Hey guys,

Unfortunately progress has been pretty much non-existant over the past few weeks 

I am however putting together a timber order so that we can build the screen wall, columns and panels.

I was wondering what you guys thought I should do for the columns. Should I build them out of MDF and fill them with insulation? Or frame them up so they're effectively open. Both options will be covered in GOM.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hi Simon,

With your columns, it really depends on what style of decor you're looking at for your room..
If the columns are going to be straight up and down, floor to under the soffits and covered with the GOM, then there's no need to make them out of MDF..and run the possible risk of having some resonances or additional reflections from them..
I would just go with the frame idea and cover them with the GOM..


----------



## chrapladm

Good to see there will be some updates in the Future.

I have seen someone else on here use mdf and then apply a veneer but I would go by Prof's recommendations.

I look forward to your build of the columns so I can see what I might try and do in the future.


----------



## bpape

If they're going to be covered in GOM anyway, I'd just make a skeleton frame, fill with insulation, and cover with cloth. That allows the speakers a ton of room to breathe and gives you a lot of nice broadband absorption in different places in the room.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> With your columns, it really depends on what style of decor you're looking at for your room..
> If the columns are going to be straight up and down, floor to under the soffits and covered with the GOM, then there's no need to make them out of MDF..and run the possible risk of having some resonances or additional reflections from them..
> I would just go with the frame idea and cover them with the GOM..





chrapladm said:


> Good to see there will be some updates in the Future.
> 
> I have seen someone else on here use mdf and then apply a veneer but I would go by Prof's recommendations.
> 
> I look forward to your build of the columns so I can see what I might try and do in the future.





bpape said:


> If they're going to be covered in GOM anyway, I'd just make a skeleton frame, fill with insulation, and cover with cloth. That allows the speakers a ton of room to breathe and gives you a lot of nice broadband absorption in different places in the room.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks guys,

Framed and covered with GOM it is :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

And I was hoping for a massive update ;-)

My vote on the columns would be to make them solid since you already have a lot of HF absorption in the room (the MDF will reflect). Also I would prefer the solid feeling when walking past them rather than spongy cloth.


----------



## raZorTT

Sorry Moggie,

I wish I had been able to put up some progress pics, but I had some "jobs" to do in preparation for the in-laws :foottap:

Would the insulation inside columns have an effect on the HF? Correct me if i'm wrong (I usually am) but aren't they usually filled with a pink batt insulation? Which I thought didn't really do anything to the HF?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Actually, the fluffy batt insulation in decent thickness is actually a very broadband absorption.

Any columns that would fall in the reflection zone would want to be HF absorbent. For the others, if you're concerned, you can use paper faced insulation which will reflect some of the upper mids and highs while still allowing bottom and mid absorption.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Bryan,

I'll have to double check my columns nearer the screen wall, just to make sure they are clear of the first reflection point.

I'm not sure i'll worry about using the facing in the rear columns seeing as I was planning on covering the back wall and the last part of the side wall with faced insulation as you suggested earlier 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

If the columns fall in or near the reflection points, then I would definitely go with the frame/GOM type setup and fit some Ultratel panels inside them..


----------



## raZorTT

Howdy folks!

Well today I was finally able to do some work on the theatre!

My mission was to get the insulation up on the wall behind the screen.

I used 70x35mm framing so that once the 50mm ultratel is attached to the wall, the framing is still sticking out a bit. Hopefully I should have enough black GOM left over to staple to the framing and cover the insulation. Because GOM is only about 1650mm wide I had to put a piece of framing across the middle. It's actually going to server two purposes though  

1. to allow me to staple the fabric to
2. to provide support for the shelf that my centre speaker will sit on 

Framing up 

The vertical/side pieces are close enough to the edge of the bass traps that they hold them in place

Bass trap/frame

I was lucky with the right side, it was exactly where a wall stud was, so was easy to attach. The other I had to find the noggins and screw it into the top and bottom plate.

top plate

The insulation was a pretty tight fit but just to be sure I put a few screws and washers in. The washers I used were called mudguard washers from bunnings. 
Considering the amount of bass that's going to be in the room it's better to be safe than sorry 

screw & washer

Here's the end result   

Insulated!

It'll probably be another couple weeks before too much more happens 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Yeah progress  Did you notice a difference in acoustics with the front wall treated? I found it fascinating how it changed as treatment went up in my room especially if you play music while you work. BTW you have probably seen it already but the staple seam between GOM strips is nicely covered with a narrow strip of hardboard wrapped in a GOM scrap. The hardboard can be affixed with brad nails which will completely disappear.


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Moggie,

I haven't had the chance to hook the speakers up yet, but i'm curious to hear the difference. I did notice a big improvement when the bass traps went up, so even if it is half as good as that i'll be very happy 

I have saved the image of yours where you wrapped a piece of masonite with GOM  genius! :T Yet another idea of yours I plan to steal 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon..

I was wondering how things were progressing with you!
Looks like it's all starting to take shape nicely...Nice job on the front wall and bass traps. :T

I used the same mudguard washers on my screws also!

Looking forward to seeing the next stage..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof :T

I went looking for some proper insulation holders but trying to describe them to bunnings folk was a waste of time. The insulation is nice and snug, the screws are really on there to stop it falling out when I crank up the bass (most of the time  )

I think next on the todo list is probably the screen wall  then it'll start looking like a theatre! :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bbieger

Looks great. Tht is exactly what I did. I covered my back wall with black burlap though. Quite a bit less expensive than GOM and serves the purpose.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks bbieger 

Covering it will probably be the last step. I'll only use GOM if I have enough left over. Otherwise it will probably be a speaker cloth that gets the thumbs up :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

GOM or speaker cloth is not necessary to cover the front wall insulation..
I also used black burlap..It's dirt cheap and works well, besides no one is going to see it!


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof.

Did they have it at spotlight?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yep..That's where I got mine.


----------



## raZorTT

awesome! thanks prof :T :T


----------



## bbieger

Sounds good. If you have an air compressor already I would highly suggest a small air stapler. Makes things allot more enjoyable. With my back wall, screen, velvet frame, and accoutic panels I went through 2 1/2 boxes of staples! My hand hurts just thinking about a manual stapler. Mine was around $30 I can dig up a link if your interested
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## raZorTT

Hey bbieger,

I used an air stapler for putting the velvet on my star ceiling panels. I couldn't imagine having done it by hand! A massive time saver!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bbieger

Nice! Always great to have the right tools on hand. I can't believe how ling I went without an impact driver. They drive screws so much easier than a standard drill. Sounds like your in the home stretch. Just blew my inlaws away with a screening of lord of the rings last night 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


----------



## raZorTT

bbieger said:


> Just blew my inlaws away with a screening of lord of the rings last night


I just got from overseas and did some scene skipping in LOTR. Can't wait to finish this room so I can watch them back to back to back 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I was going to grab some insulation to fill the soffits tomorrow. Is the normal thermal insulation the best bet? Does the R-value make any real difference?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## chrapladm

What player are you using for overseas discs?

I just saw LOTR blue rays at Blockbuster and Big W so I know that I CAN get them here but there are quite a few discs I wish I could get here but are easier to obtain from the USA.


----------



## raZorTT

Hey chrapladm

I grabbed LOTR from amazon.co.uk. UK are the same region as us so it works in my PS3 without a problem.

I only buy from the US when the discs are region free (I use http://blurayaustralia.com/regioncodes/). Looks like LOTR trilogy is region free so will work here too 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I was going to grab some insulation to fill the soffits tomorrow. Is the normal thermal insulation the best bet? Does the R-value make any real difference?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Simon,
Normal pink or gold batts will be fine..I used gold!


----------



## raZorTT

Well I was naughty and instead of painting outside on the weekend, did some stuff in the theater. We built the screen wall and shelves for the centre, left and right speakers.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to take progress pictures because my camera was MIA. I did find it yesterday evening though, so snapped of some pics of the finished frame with speakers installed 

We started by screwing the top and bottom plates in place and then filled in from there. I've ended up putting the bottom of the screen 650mm up from the stage, so 750mm off the floor.

The gap between the insulation on the wall behind the screen and the framing is 500mm. Which left us just enough room to slide in the subs after installing the table/pedestal to hold the left and right speakers.

Seeing as i'm going with an acoustically transparent screen I wanted to keep the left and right channels positioned just inside the 16:9 boundary and all of the tweeters at the same height. Due to the size of the subs the only way I could achieve it was to flip the speakers upside down (Thanks Jason ). 

Frame
Frame corner
Table
Centre
Screen wall
Old screen

We had a little bit of time left after finishing the screen wall and shelves so we set about creating a mock up of the light tray. My plan was to use MDF on the side, and two pieces of ash on the bottom and lip of the tray. I had envisaged installing downlights to wash the walls in the light tray, but after building this mockup I think i'm going to put them in the soffit instead.

My first concern was installing a halogen downlight in wood. Even though it's only a 35W globe, that in all likelyhood will be dimmed and only on for 15mins maybe at a time. I left the light on for a couple house last night and it was very hot. I have no idea if it's hot enough to do any damage, but i'm not really willing to risk it.

My second concern was the amount of light that is thrown out the back of the globe. 
If the globe stays in the light tray it will definitely wreck the effect i'm trying to achieve with the rope light. 

Mock tray
Light spill

So am not sure what to do now with the bottom of the soffit. Do I cover it all with gyprock and either paint it black? Or do I continue with covering the bottom with GOM and build some small downlight holders?

Filling the soffit with insulation and covering with GOM was so it could act as a bass trap of sorts, would covering the soffit with gyprock reduce the effectiveness?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nice job on the screenwall Jason.:T


raZorTT said:


> Seeing as i'm going with an acoustically transparent screen I wanted to keep the left and right channels positioned just inside the 16:9 boundary and all of the tweeters at the same height. Due to the size of the subs the only way I could achieve it was to flip the speakers upside down (Thanks Jason ).


From what I can see in the photo, the L&R speakers look a bit too close to the centre speaker..
I would have moved them so the inside edges lined up with the 16:9 boundary..
There is good spacing between the speakers and the side walls, so they could have been positioned a bit closer to the side walls..



> So am not sure what to do now with the bottom of the soffit. Do I cover it all with gyprock and either paint it black? Or do I continue with covering the bottom with GOM and build some small downlight holders?


I would do the latter..
My downlights are 50W. Halogen's mounted on velvet over MDF and there is no sign of scorching..
As you mentioned, they aren't on all the time and it would take hours of continual illumination to even get anywhere near any dangerous heat levels..



> Filling the soffit with insulation and covering with GOM was so it could act as a bass trap of sorts, would covering the soffit with gyprock reduce the effectiveness?


It probably won't be very effective as a bass trap but it would help to some degree with any room resonances..
I originally didn't put any insulation in my open soffits, but when I did I noticed an improvement in the clarity of surround sounds..

Keep us posted..


----------



## chrapladm

Nice to see everything coming along nicely.


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof,



Prof. said:


> From what I can see in the photo, the L&R speakers look a bit too close to the centre speaker..
> I would have moved them so the inside edges lined up with the 16:9 boundary..
> There is good spacing between the speakers and the side walls, so they could have been positioned a bit closer to the side walls..


I thought it was common to put them inside the boundary so that if you use some form of masking (manual or auto) there isn't an extra layer of fabric getting in the way?




Prof. said:


> I would do the latter..
> My downlights are 50W. Halogen's mounted on velvet over MDF and there is no sign of scorching..
> As you mentioned, they aren't on all the time and it would take hours of continual illumination to even get anywhere near any dangerous heat levels..


Another reason I am hesitant to put them in the tray is I think i'll need to have them all installed before they'll sign off on my renovations, still have to get the final inspection done. Because of the star ceiling they are the only lights in the room.



Prof. said:


> It probably won't be very effective as a bass trap but it would help to some degree with any room resonances..
> I originally didn't put any insulation in my open soffits, but when I did I noticed an improvement in the clarity of surround sounds..
> 
> Keep us posted..


I think what ever I do with the downlights i'll go with the GOM under the soffits. What you mention about the surronds clarity is basically what I'm hearing at the moment with treatments only on the front wall. They seem to have become less obvious, or dull. Or maybe i'm just imagining things 

I think I need to try making some covers for the lights to see if I can solve the light spill issue before I commit. I'll also slap a coat of black paint on the frames just incase :T

Thanks Prof!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Hey Prof,
> 
> 
> 
> I thought it was common to put them inside the boundary so that if you use some form of masking (manual or auto) there isn't an extra layer of fabric getting in the way?


Sorry Jason I was forgetting that you're using side masking..Although I think I remember someone in a similar situation using possibly grille cloth for the masks..
Personally I don't use any..
What is the spacing now between your L&R speakers?



> I think what ever I do with the downlights i'll go with the GOM under the soffits. What you mention about the surronds clarity is basically what I'm hearing at the moment with treatments only on the front wall. They seem to have become less obvious, or dull. Or maybe i'm just imagining things


I should have also added that surround sound location and panning from front to rear becomes clearer as well..



> I think I need to try making some covers for the lights to see if I can solve the light spill issue before I commit. I'll also slap a coat of black paint on the frames just incase :T


You might laugh at this..and I certainly wouldn't let an inspector see it!
I made Al-foil domes to cover the back of the lights!..It was perfectly safe as the electrical connections are in those black boxes and well insulated..
They work great and it cost me a roll of Al-foil!!


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof, 



Prof. said:


> Although I think I remember someone in a similar situation using possibly grille cloth for the masks..
> Personally I don't use any..
> What is the spacing now between your L&R speakers?


It probably was me, I was talking about grill cloth and GOM at one stage for masks. Masking is pretty low on my todo list at this stage  but just trying to plan and future proof where possible.

The space between the inside edges of the two speakers is 1780mm.



Prof. said:


> You might laugh at this..and I certainly wouldn't let an inspector see it!
> I made Al-foil domes to cover the back of the lights!..It was perfectly safe as the electrical connections are in those black boxes and well insulated..
> They work great and it cost me a roll of Al-foil!!


Simple solutions are often the best! :T The first thought that came to my mind was the lids off spray paint cans, but I suspect the plastic they use isn't a high temp one 

Simon.


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> The space between the inside edges of the two speakers is 1780mm.


It didn't look that much in the photo...That's a bit less than mine, so you should be OK..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> It didn't look that much in the photo...That's a bit less than mine, so you should be OK..


Phew :T


I made a slight detour on the way home from work yesterday and grabbed one of the Nelson downlight covers to test out in my mock light tray.

Nelson cover 

I place the cover over the globe and fired it up.

Covered 

Here are a before and after pic. I think the after shot is a bit brighter in the photo due to the camera trying to lighten the image.

Before cover 
After cover 

I think there is still too much light escaping with just the cover on top, but I could grab a roll of automotive heat tape and cover up the holes which will basically seal the unit.

Guess it now comes down to am I happy to put the lights in wood <_< 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Those covers are certainly not a good design..What were they thinking!! :scratch:
Instead of a glow from the back of the lights, you now have spots of light!! :dumbcrazy:
I bet those covers are not cheap either..
Heat tape should do the trick..But why not just put empty paint cans over them?
You can pick them up from Bunnings very cheaply!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Those covers are certainly not a good design..What were they thinking!! :scratch:
> Instead of a glow from the back of the lights, you now have spots of light!! :dumbcrazy:
> I bet those covers are not cheap either..
> Heat tape should do the trick..But why not just put empty paint cans over them?
> You can pick them up from Bunnings very cheaply!


hehe they are advertised as dust covers, so I guess they technically do the job 

They are $5 each, so not as crazy as I was expecting.

Maybe I could just heat tape the back of the globe? That might be an even easier solution.

Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Hi Simon,

Just catching up the past couple of week of your postings. Nice progress! It's funny but you are hitting some of the very same issues that I hit. Anyway, regarding your L/R speaker placement -- I placed mine so were just inside the 16:9 boundary. Having now listened to some music I think they are too close together for optimum sound stage. On movie soundtrack tests they sound fine. The reason for my placement was because I plan on side masks and although these will be AT they will also have a leading edge of non-AT velvet. If I placed my speakers on the outside of the 16:9 envelope then they would always be partially obstructed by the masks (even the distance between 16:9 position to scope was less than the speaker width). In the end I decided that my space was 70% movies and 30% music so I'm happy with the narrow spacing. In any case I'm wired for "wides", *maybe* that will improve the soundstage... I still a way from enjoying my HT but thought I'd give you my thoughts.

On the light spill issue, yup, was in the same situation last month. My design allowed me to build a retrofit false back to the soffit to sufficient depth to mask the light spill from the cans. In addition to the light spill, seeing the can was a turn off for me. I don't have an answer for you but I'm not keen on those covers you picked up since they protrude above the edge of the tray. I think I would attempt to build a very low profile cover of your own design. Since the lamps generate a lot of heat it would be idea it they were metal (or foil as the prof suggested!!).

One more idea of the lights .. what it you made a wood ring and mounted the light in that. It would hang down an additional 3/4" (18mm to you ;-) and give you more room to fabricate a cover (or use the ones you purchased) that is completely hidden.

I've no doubt you will come up with a great solution!!

Cheers.


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Moggie,



moggieuk said:


> Just catching up the past couple of week of your postings. Nice progress! It's funny but you are hitting some of the very same issues that I hit. Anyway, regarding your L/R speaker placement -- I placed mine so were just inside the 16:9 boundary. Having now listened to some music I think they are too close together for optimum sound stage. On movie soundtrack tests they sound fine. The reason for my placement was because I plan on side masks and although these will be AT they will also have a leading edge of non-AT velvet. If I placed my speakers on the outside of the 16:9 envelope then they would always be partially obstructed by the masks (even the distance between 16:9 position to scope was less than the speaker width). In the end I decided that my space was 70% movies and 30% music so I'm happy with the narrow spacing. In any case I'm wired for "wides", *maybe* that will improve the soundstage... I still a way from enjoying my HT but thought I'd give you my thoughts.


I had always planned on a fancy DIY automatic masking system, but for now I think I need to concentrate on getting the room to a useable state . I think my room will be 80% movies 20%.



moggieuk said:


> On the light spill issue, yup, was in the same situation last month. My design allowed me to build a retrofit false back to the soffit to sufficient depth to mask the light spill from the cans. In addition to the light spill, seeing the can was a turn off for me. I don't have an answer for you but I'm not keen on those covers you picked up since they protrude above the edge of the tray. I think I would attempt to build a very low profile cover of your own design. Since the lamps generate a lot of heat it would be idea it they were metal (or foil as the prof suggested!!).


Yeah foil might not be a bad idea, especially considering I can mold it into a very low profile shape 



moggieuk said:


> One more idea of the lights .. what it you made a wood ring and mounted the light in that. It would hang down an additional 3/4" (18mm to you ;-) and give you more room to fabricate a cover (or use the ones you purchased) that is completely hidden.


I think Ronnie did something like that on AVS on long time ago. It might actually be a nice feature if it was made out of wood as well 

I think i'll ditch the dust cover though  



moggieuk said:


> I've no doubt you will come up with a great solution!!


Fingers crossed, worst case i'll stick them in the soffit instead of the tray 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, I looked again at your lights. If you could lower the mounting (by a decorative wood ring or such) and increase the side wall of the tray slightly you might be able to use those dust covers after all -- after covering the holes with foil. At least they would create a form to keep the foil from the light. Don't you think mounting them in the soffit would put them too close to the walls?


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, I looked again at your lights. If you could lower the mounting (by a decorative wood ring or such) and increase the side wall of the tray slightly you might be able to use those dust covers after all -- after covering the holes with foil. At least they would create a form to keep the foil from the light. Don't you think mounting them in the soffit would put them too close to the walls?


Hey Moggie,

There is probably a chance I could chop the dust cover down as well. :T

Not sure about the placement, I think I need to do some tests. I'll screw my mock up into the soffit frames at various distances from the wall and take some pictures. I'll post them for opinions.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> GOM or speaker cloth is not necessary to cover the front wall insulation..
> I also used black burlap..It's dirt cheap and works well, besides no one is going to see it!


Hey Prof.

I haven't managed to get out to spotlight yet, so I was wondering if you could remember how wide the black burlap was?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

From memory I think it was about 1600mm wide..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof. I think that's almost exactly what I need for the top half of the insulated wall.. Fingers crossed.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yes..it took 2 horizontal strips with a bit of overlap, to cover mine..


----------



## raZorTT

Another small update.

Over last week and the weekend I had been concentrating on the wall behind the false screen wall. 

I'm sure no one but me will ever see behind the screen, but I decided I wanted to cover up the insulation anyway. 

I went out to spotlight during the week and grabbed a 10m roll of black Hessian, the roll said it was only 120cm wide, but it was nearly 180cm when I measured it . 

The first thing I set about doing was building some little plates/holders for the speaker grommets and the power points I just cut up some small pieces of MDF and painted them matte black so they wouldn't be obvious behind the fabric.
Wall plate 

After I had attached all the plates I rolled off 4m of hessian to cover the lower half. I used push pins around the edges to keep the fabric roughly in place, before securing it with the air stapler.

Lower section being covered
Lower section covered and cleaned up

Around the speaker wire holes and power points i put a few staples right on the edge to keep the fabric in place and then cut into the fabric.

staples
cut fabric
power point

I had to attack the speaker wire holes with the dremel before the grommet would fit. The added thickness of the fabric just made pushing it in impossible.

speaker wire hole

I rolled off some more hessian to cover the upper section and followed the same basic process. Pinned the fabric roughly in place then stretched and stapled it all in place.

Upper section covered

I'm tossing up whether or not i'll make up some sort of trim piece to cover up the staples ( like Moggie did ). The perfectionist in me says yes  :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nice job Simon..:T

How many strips of hessian did it take to cover the whole area?
Looking at the photo with just the bottom section done, the material doesn't look very wide..
I was able to cover my front wall with just two strips!
What was the width of the hessian that you bought?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Nice job Simon..:T
> 
> How many strips of hessian did it take to cover the whole area?
> Looking at the photo with just the bottom section done, the material doesn't look very wide..
> I was able to cover my front wall with just two strips!
> What was the width of the hessian that you bought?


Hey Prof.

It only took two runs to cover the whole wall. The photo with just the bottom section covered was after I had trimmed off all the excess from the bottom.

The tag on the roll said it was only 120cm wide but it was actually around 180cm, so it covered the top section easily (which was 1600mm) :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

That's a big difference between 120cm. and 180cm.! Spotlight are usually pretty good with their roll width labels! :scratch:.
I had previously estimated that it should only take two strips to cover the area..Must have just been an optical illusion in the photo..
Any particular reason why you didn't use the strips to cover the bass traps at the same time?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> That's a big difference between 120cm. and 180cm.! Spotlight are usually pretty good with their roll width labels! :scratch:.
> I had previously estimated that it should only take two strips to cover the area..Must have just been an optical illusion in the photo..
> Any particular reason why you didn't use the strips to cover the bass traps at the same time?


I ran out of time to finish up the bass traps.

I wasn't confident I could manage the angles with just the two strips, so decided to do the bass traps seperately. My plan is to staple the first edge to the false screen wall and then nail a strip of masonite over the top of the staples to give it a nice sharp edge when the material is pulled back over it. Then i'll stretch it back to the edge of the covered section and staple it in place.

I'll glue some hessian to a few strips of masonite (thanks Moggie!) and attach them over the top of all the staples.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Sounds like a good plan. :T
I'll look forward to the next lot of pics..


----------



## raZorTT

I was able to put some of the long weekend to good use and got a few bits and pieces done in the theatre 

I managed to cover one of the corners. First step was to staple the hessian to the inside of the false wall.

Staple inside false wall

After that I stapled a piece of masonite over the top so that when the hessian was pulled back towards back wall it created a nice straight seam.

Staple masonite
Nice seam

Next I pulled the hessian tight and stapled it to the frame on the back wall. My staples are a little wobbly but that was sorted out when I covered them with a piece of trim. I attached the trim pieces using brad nails (The air stapler that i'm using conveniently is a 2 in 1 stapler and brad nailer  )

corner
Trim pieces
Trim installed

I'm sure no one will ever see it, but I feel better knowing its nice and clean behind the screen  :T. I need to head back out to spotlight to grab some more hessian because I ended up being short by about 1m.

With the hessian up I had to make a small change to my left and right speaker stands. The legs that were right up against the back wall were recessed slightly, so would have pushed against the hessian. So I made a few adjustments to keep it nice and clean.

Before
After

The final thing I did was make a test panel to attach to the front of the screen wall.

Panel frame
Panel staples

Luckily it was a test panel because I made it too big  (measure twice cut once). To hold it together I put a heap of staples in the joints. I think for the final versions i'll glue and cramp it together, and instead of staples i'll get some small nail plates to give it some extra strength. What did you guys use to build the panels?

I stuck some velcro on the panel and on the screen wall just to see how well it holds. Lets just say it's good stuff  I think the panel might come apart before the velcro lets go!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## mcfly

Just a quick thanks,

Have had a look through and always look forward to updates, giving good ideas to my slowly moving loft cinema conversion.

Again thanks for the regular updates.


----------



## raZorTT

mcfly said:


> Just a quick thanks,
> 
> Have had a look through and always look forward to updates, giving good ideas to my slowly moving loft cinema conversion.
> 
> Again thanks for the regular updates.


Thanks mcfly :T glad to be able to give some back after taking (lurking) for so long


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I was able to put some of the long weekend to good use and got a few bits and pieces done in the theatre
> 
> I managed to cover one of the corners. First step was to staple the hessian to the inside of the false wall.
> 
> Staple inside false wall
> 
> After that I stapled a piece of masonite over the top so that when the hessian was pulled back towards back wall it created a nice straight seam.
> 
> Staple masonite
> Nice seam
> 
> Next I pulled the hessian tight and stapled it to the frame on the back wall. My staples are a little wobbly but that was sorted out when I covered them with a piece of trim. I attached the trim pieces using brad nails (The air stapler that i'm using conveniently is a 2 in 1 stapler and brad nailer  )
> 
> corner
> Trim pieces
> Trim installed
> 
> I'm sure no one will ever see it, but I feel better knowing its nice and clean behind the screen  :T. I need to head back out to spotlight to grab some more hessian because I ended up being short by about 1m.


Nice neat job Jason..Pity no one's going to see it!..:bigsmile:



> With the hessian up I had to make a small change to my left and right speaker stands. The legs that were right up against the back wall were recessed slightly, so would have pushed against the hessian. So I made a few adjustments to keep it nice and clean.
> 
> Before
> After


I must say you're very particular with these things..I don't think I would have bothered, since no one's going to see it..



> The final thing I did was make a test panel to attach to the front of the screen wall.
> 
> Panel frame
> Panel staples
> 
> Luckily it was a test panel because I made it too big  (measure twice cut once). To hold it together I put a heap of staples in the joints. I think for the final versions i'll glue and cramp it together, and instead of staples i'll get some small nail plates to give it some extra strength. What did you guys use to build the panels?


I just used 42x19's for my panel frames and butt glued the joints, and then put in a thin screw in each joint just for added strength..



> I stuck some velcro on the panel and on the screen wall just to see how well it holds. Lets just say it's good stuff  I think the panel might come apart before the velcro lets go!


Yeah!..great stuff that industrial Velcro!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> I must say you're very particular with these things..I don't think I would have bothered, since no one's going to see it..


Yeah I know. I guess cause i'm sort of waiting for my electrician i'm finding little jobs that can be done while I wait 



Prof. said:


> I just used 42x19's for my panel frames and butt glued the joints, and then put in a thin screw in each joint just for added strength..
> 
> Yeah!..great stuff that industrial Velcro!!


I'm using 42x19s as well for the panels. Did you miter the corners? The amazing aquadhere will definitely be used though  :T

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yes I did mitre the corners and glued with good 'ol aquadhere!

PS.. I didn't have to wait for the electrician..I did my own!!:R


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Yes I did mitre the corners and glued with good 'ol aquadhere!
> 
> PS.. I didn't have to wait for the electrician..I did my own!!:R


Thanks Prof.

Believe me i'm very tempted to do that as well. He can maybe just check what I do once he comes back to add a new circuit!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

If you're confident about doing the electrics, then I would go ahead and just have the sparky certify your work..


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Luckily it was a test panel because I made it too big  (measure twice cut once). To hold it together I put a heap of staples in the joints. I think for the final versions i'll glue and cramp it together, and instead of staples i'll get some small nail plates to give it some extra strength. What did you guys use to build the panels?


Simon, the front wall is coming along nicely! Why not use your biscuit jointer and properly glue those panels? Alternatively pocket hole screws work great. In the US a company called Kreg makes a popular jig. It's really a great way to make tight flush joints without waiting for the glue to set up.

Cheers


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, the front wall is coming along nicely! Why not use your biscuit jointer and properly glue those panels? Alternatively pocket hole screws work great. In the US a company called Kreg makes a popular jig. It's really a great way to make tight flush joints without waiting for the glue to set up.
> 
> Cheers


Thanks Moggie :T

I like the look of the kreg stuff. I've found a place just near where I work that sells Kreg stuff so I think i'll go and check it out 

You aren't making very many panels are you? You are using fabri-track or similar for the majority of your GOM?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Thanks Moggie :T
> 
> I like the look of the kreg stuff. I've found a place just near where I work that sells Kreg stuff so I think i'll go and check it out
> 
> You aren't making very many panels are you? You are using fabri-track or similar for the majority of your GOM?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Simon, the only panels I'm going to make are for the screen wall, the rest is the fabricmate system (when I get round to fitting it!). You won't regret the Kreg tool. I used mine today to end joint the curved hardwood stage edge together.

Cheers.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, the only panels I'm going to make are for the screen wall, the rest is the fabricmate system (when I get round to fitting it!). You won't regret the Kreg tool. I used mine today to end joint the curved hardwood stage edge together.
> 
> Cheers.


Moggie,

Would the Kreg tool be able to do add strength to a mitre join? For my light tray I plan on joining two pieces of ash together to form the bottom of the tray and then the smaller upright. The ash is only 20mm thick. My thinking is it's probably not thick enough. I might just have to screw a small piece of timber inside against the corner and drill into each piece of ash.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Another small update.

I have basically finished off all the work for behind the screen 

I stuffed some insulation up into the back of the front soffit and made a few panels for the bottom of the soffit behind the screen. Basically just to keep it all looking clean, and to keep any loose fibers from falling from above.

We made three panels, one large rectangular one in the middle and two smaller panels that match the angled fabric infront of the bass traps.

Corner panel construction
Side panel in place
All done

All that really needs to be done behind there now is to put a piece of carpet on the floor before the subs are put in place.

All done, now to cover it all up so no one sees all that hard work 

If we get the time next weekend we are going to have a crack at the light tray! 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nice neat job..as always :T
You'll have to have an open inspection sometime, to show everyone all your behind the scenes work! :rofl:


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Nice neat job..as always :T
> You'll have to have an open inspection sometime, to show everyone all your behind the scenes work! :rofl:


Or a special features Disc with behind the scenes footage :coocoo:


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Moggie,
> 
> Would the Kreg tool be able to do add strength to a mitre join? For my light tray I plan on joining two pieces of ash together to form the bottom of the tray and then the smaller upright. The ash is only 20mm thick. My thinking is it's probably not thick enough. I might just have to screw a small piece of timber inside against the corner and drill into each piece of ash.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Simon, the Kreg pocket screw system makes amazing strong and neat miter joints. Have a look at my latest post on the bull nose construction to see how two pocket screws and some good glue easily joins 3/4" boards. In a lot of respects it is better than biscuit joints because the screws pull the two pieces together and your don't have to wait long before continuing work. The three keys to success are (i) make sure you use exactly the correct sized/thread density of screw, (ii) use a clamp (Kreg supply one with the larger kit) and position it over where the screw would poke through -- this prevents the possibility of hump forming in the wood under the screw tip, (iii) don't over tighten! It's a recent addition to my woodworking arsenal but I'm sold on it.


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, have you considered truncating your screen wall so it doesn't extend all the way to the side wall? The idea would be to make the screen float in front of your treated wall. That way it would be easy to peek around the sides of the screen (and see all your hard work). I almost did this because I though it would look cool.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, the Kreg pocket screw system makes amazing strong and neat miter joints. Have a look at my latest post on the bull nose construction to see how two pocket screws and some good glue easily joins 3/4" boards. In a lot of respects it is better than biscuit joints because the screws pull the two pieces together and your don't have to wait long before continuing work. The three keys to success are (i) make sure you use exactly the correct sized/thread density of screw, (ii) use a clamp (Kreg supply one with the larger kit) and position it over where the screw would poke through -- this prevents the possibility of hump forming in the wood under the screw tip, (iii) don't over tighten! It's a recent addition to my woodworking arsenal but I'm sold on it.


Moggie, I just saw your update. Sensational work as usual! I have to get out to the store and check out the jig. I might try sneak out from work a fraction early today.



moggieuk said:


> Simon, have you considered truncating your screen wall so it doesn't extend all the way to the side wall? The idea would be to make the screen float in front of your treated wall. That way it would be easy to peek around the sides of the screen (and see all your hard work). I almost did this because I though it would look cool.


That's a pretty cool idea. You could then run some rope light down the edge of the frame upright to throw a nice glow on the material behind the false wall. I guess it would look a bit like massive speaker ports on each side of the screen wall


----------



## raZorTT

Ok I've had another chat with my electrician and the end result is he can't certify things if I put the downlights in the light tray, so I have to move them into the soffit. The one plus? It solves the problem of light spill, but now I have to decide if I should change my soffit construction plans.

The plan was to fill the soffit with insulation and cover the bottom with GOM. That could still be the way forward, but we would have to come up with a solution to suspend the downlight in position at the same height as the GOM covering.

I'm wondering if I should just apply the KISS principle and fill the soffit with insulation and cover it with 6mm gyprock/sheetrock? Or something else that is nice and thin and won't catch fire :T

The positives of covering with gyprock:
- Easy construction
- It might provide a some high frequency reflection and minimise the effect the velvet ceiling 

The negatives:
- It takes away some broadband absorption
- Construction a little more complex

What do you guys think??

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

This is the sort of thing I was thinking if I were to keep the soffits open

Open soffit

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon..I'm a little confused about what the problem is!


raZorTT said:


> The plan was to fill the soffit with insulation and cover the bottom with GOM. That could still be the way forward, but we would have to come up with a solution to suspend the downlight in position at the same height as the GOM covering.


Why do you need to suspend the downlights? 
Normally you just cut a hole in the bottom of the soffit, slip them through and clip them into place over the GOM!



> I'm wondering if I should just apply the KISS principle and fill the soffit with insulation and cover it with 6mm gyprock/sheetrock? Or something else that is nice and thin and won't catch fire :T


I thought you were going to leave the top open! I wouldn't use gyprock as a cover because it has a paper face and could catch fire..
If you want to cover it, I would suggest using cement board ( can't think of it's trade name at the moment) which is fireproof..But it would be better to leave the top open and just cover your downlights..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon..I'm a little confused about what the problem is!


Hey Prof, sorry i'll try to better describe my issue. Forgive the crude image, MS Paint is all I have at my disposal at the moment.

bad diagram

Originally I had planned to put the downlights in my light tray as indicated by the green circles. To cover the bottom of the framed soffit I was going to create GOM covered panels and attach them to the frame. The soffit was also going to be stuffed full of insulation to add some broadband absorption. So there wasn't going to be any gyprock along the bottom of the soffit frame.

In the picture you can see the light tray finishes 20mm below the soffit frame, this was so when the GOM panel was put in place the tray and GOM would be flush.

If I want to keep the bottom of the soffit open as explained above, then I need to build something that will hold the downlight flush with the GOM panel and light tray.

My other option is to cover the bottom of the soffit with gyprock and just as you would a normal ceiling, cut holes in the gyprock for each of the lights. I will still stuff the soffit full of insulation to remove any resonance.

Would the difference between the two options be negligible?

Is that any less confusing?? :scratch:

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Aha!!.now I've gotcha!..
Of the two types of design for the soffits, the open bottom/GOM covered, insulation filled, suspended downlight version seems like a lot of work for maybe little return..

A lot of soffits in some very expensive theatres just have a box or channel type soffit (filled with insulation), with the downlights just fitted through the bottom of the soffit..with a light proof housing over the lights..

If you were in need of further acoustic treatment in the room, then I would go for the GOM covered version..
In your case you have a lot of acoustic insulation through out the room (more than many) so I really don't think you'll need any more!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Aha!!.now I've gotcha!..
> Of the two types of design for the soffits, the open bottom/GOM covered, insulation filled, suspended downlight version seems like a lot of work for maybe little return..


On the weekend I decided like you suggest Prof, that the open GOM option would be a lot of work for potentially a small return, so i'm going to keep it simple and cover the bottoms with gyprock. I got 1/2 of the soffits stuffed with insulation. 

Don't you love it when things accidently work in your favor  the widths of the soffit are exactly the width of batts 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yes it's a good feeling when things like that just come together..:yes:
Same sort of thing happened to me the other day when I needed some black stretch cloth to cover some small cover frames for the side surrounds..
I only needed a couple of small pieces and I found the last two offcuts from a previous job that were just the right size to do the job..
Saved me a 70K.trip to Spotlight! :whew:


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Yes it's a good feeling when things like that just come together..:yes:
> Same sort of thing happened to me the other day when I needed some black stretch cloth to cover some small cover frames for the side surrounds..
> I only needed a couple of small pieces and I found the last two offcuts from a previous job that were just the right size to do the job..
> Saved me a 70K.trip to Spotlight! :whew:


haha nicely done! :T:T


----------



## raZorTT

Hi guys,

Another half day of work on the theatre yesterday. We go started on building the light trays.

We are making the bottom and small front upright of the light trays out of Ash and the long back upright out of MDF. 

We cut 45 degree angles on all of the lengths of ash so we could mitre them together. The plan was to glue them all today and then once the trays are constructed get in and cut them to exact length.

To get nice tight mitres we first flipped the two pieces over, lined them up and taped them together with masking tape. The tape holds the two pieces together and stops them from pulling apart as you close and tighten the joint.

Two pieces 
Two pieces taped 
Long pieces taped 

Next step was to flip the pieces over and apply some liberal amounts of aquadhere

Glue joint

We then used a clamp to squeeze the two pieces and tighten the joint. At the same time we were checking the angle of the joint using a builders square.

Clamping to tighten the joint
Tape to hold

We worked our way down each piece, tightening and taping to hold it in place.

Taped to dry

We made around 15m of light tray and managed to use up exactly 100m of masking tape 

Once the trays have dried I will be able to give them a sand and stain them before putting them up. I have a feeling that it will be much easier than trying to do it once they are installed! :T:T

Hopefully at some stage next week we will be able to cut the backs out of MDF and i'll be able to give them a few coats of flat black paint at the same time.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nice job Simon...

They look to be really solid light trays..How thick is that timber?.


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof.

Yeah they should be pretty sturdy  the timber is 18 or 19mm thick.

We went a bit thicker so when we attach it to the MDF back there is some timber there for the screws to bite into . I don't want any screw holes in the ash so we will screw a piece of quad into the MDF and then down into the Ash. 

Actually you might have seen what we are going to do in my mock up light tray when we were discussing the light spill issue.

I should be able to take all the tape off the trays tomorrow. It's a bit cold at the moment so it'll need longer than the suggested 24 hours.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

A bit cold in Canberra!! really!! :rofl:
We've also had some minus temps here as well this season..It's generally about 5 degrees colder in the mornings where I live, than in Adelaide..

I thought those planks looked thicker than 19mm...Must just be the camera angle..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. 

Do you use an IR repeater in your setup?

If you do I was wondering what you used?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Prof.
> 
> Do you use an IR repeater in your setup?
> 
> If you do I was wondering what you used?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Yes I do..I originally wasn't too sure if it would work with a sensor behind my screen wall, so I bought just a cheapy from Jaycar for about $50..
Well it worked so well that it controlled all my gear in another room, plus I was able to use one of the emitters to control the down lights sensor..It's never given me a moments trouble..
Unless you want something more sophisticated, then I can thoroughly recommend that unit..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof that sounds perfect. I will go out to jaycar to check them out.

I figure I should get my hands on something sooner rather than later. I was leaning towards running the cable up and along the soffit. Actually on second thought, if i'm going to be closing the soffit up then I should probably do something different. Maybe run it under the floor with my speaker cables.

Either way it's probably a good idea to get the kit and have a play :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Is this it?

http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AR1812


----------



## Prof.

No..It was like this one..
http://jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=AR1817&keywords=ir+extender&form=KEYWORD
But that other one looks like it might have a bit more versatility..


----------



## raZorTT

Went to Jaycar on Wednesday afternoon and picked up an IR repeater.

I ended up getting this kit. It was a little more expensive @ $99 but has 6 outputs that I can use. They also sell single and dual emitters for it (you only get a single and a dual included) so theoretically you could have 12 emitters connected and bombarding your equiptment :boxer:

I wanted to get a cabled option instead of a wireless one because my Grafik Eye QS (light switch) has connections on the back of it for an IR extender. So in theory i'll be able to use a remote to control all the different lighting scenes the GE has to offer :T :bigsmile: :T

Last night my wife had a work function so I took the opportunity to get out in the garage and work on the light trays :bigsmile:. My dad also came around after he finished work and we cut the backs of the light trays out of 12mm MDF.

Tray backs

After he left I quickly gave them a first coat of matt black paint. The 5 lengths will be cut into 9 pieces and attached to the lower part of the light trays once they have been stained.

Painted

While the backs were drying I turned my attention to the lower parts of the trays. I got 2/3 of them sanded before I realised it was getting late and I should probably stop. I didn't want to get the neighbours offside before the theatre is even functioning  

I gave a scrap piece of Ash I had a very quick coat of the english mahogany timber stain I bought yesterday. 

Stained Ash

The colour came out a bit lighter than I expected so i'd say another coat will be in order before putting a sealing coat over the top. The flash on the camera makes it lighter than it is in the flesh.

Overall not a bad evenings work 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

That looks like a very good IR kit Simon..certainly more sophisticated than the one I bought..but then I only needed a simple wireless unit with only a couple of emitters to run to the projector and one set of light sensors..

Did you see a sample card of that stain before you bought it?
The finished colour will depend on the type of timber it's applied to..If you think it's still too light after the second coat, you might have to add a darker stain to it..


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof

Yeah the sample of the stain was on pine from memory. So I would have expected Ash which is darker than pine to have been darker rather than lighter. Maybe I need to leave the stain on longer before wiping it off because Ash is a much harder wood. I'll try a 2nd coat and also do another section and leave it on for longer to see which gives better coverage and looks better.

Stay tuned


----------



## Prof.

Yes..I harder timber will require the stain to be left on longer..


----------



## raZorTT

My wife had some friends over for a girls night last night so I was happy to vacate to the garage and work on the light trays 

I managed to finish off all of the sanding on Sunday afternoon so last night I was able to crack out the stain :T

I got them all done and am pretty happy with the end colour. Again it's not quite as dark as what I saw in the hardware store, but it's not pink like my test piece. I don't think i'll bother giving them a second coat because I think it will end up being too dark and i'll loose the grain. I'm not sure if i'll go with a gloss or satin finish over the top. I should probably go a satin to reduce any light reflections.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

I coated my timber with satin and even that shows a bit of light reflection, but then with my small room everything lights up!! :bigsmile:


----------



## raZorTT

Well I wasn't able to do any more work on the lights trays over the weekend , but I did make some progress :T

I think I mentioned before I found a box of plug bases that the electrician left last time he was here that were to be installed for all the downlight transformers. Well I got up there and finished installing plug bases on the two cables inside the soffits. All they require you to do is strip away about 70mm of the outer insulation, put the live, neutral and earth wires in the colour coded spot and clamp the plug base together till it clicks. A very quick system! It sure beats cutting, stripping and wiring up each point.

Then I screwed all of the 12V transformers into place. The framing for the soffit turned out to be the perfect height for mounting the transformers.
You should be able to just make out the transformers directly above the dangling light bulbs.

With all the plug bases, transformers and bulbs attached I set about wiring up my Grafik Eye. I only wired up the two zones but you can see the GE in action in the background of the second pic. It's an awesome product . Lights dim up, lights dim down, lights dim up, was pretty much what the remainder of the afternoon consisted of 

Screen Lights
Back Lights

I will still need the sparky to come back to do a few more things so i'll get him to take a look at the stuff I did and make any required changes.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> It's an awesome product . Lights dim up, lights dim down, lights dim up, was pretty much what the remainder of the afternoon consisted of


That sounds very similar to a Homer Simpson quote.."bed goes up, bed goes down, bed goes up, bed goes down..:rofl:
Careful you don't wear out your dimmer!


----------



## raZorTT

Ah Homer, He's my idol :dumbcrazy:


----------



## Prof.

Simon,
Any particular reason for using 12V. downlights?..The transformers have been known to causing humming in the system..
Is it a requirement of the Grafik Eye to use 12V.lighting?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> Any particular reason for using 12V. downlights?..The transformers have been known to causing humming in the system..
> Is it a requirement of the Grafik Eye to use 12V.lighting?


Hey Prof.

No I think the GE can dim a 240V without any problems. It's more the size of the downlight, which I had bought originally planning to install in the tray, was only available as a 35W 12V.

Maybe I should look at replacing them with 50W 240V downlights now that they have been moved into the soffit?

To be honest I have noticed the transformer hum when standing right near one. I had sort of been hoping that once the soffit was closed up I wouldn't be able to hear it. onder:

The light output won't really matter seeing as i'll be dimming them pretty low anyway.

:scratch:


----------



## Prof.

If you have dark walls and ceiling, you'll need as many Watts as possible..
I have a total of 400watts with my down lights, in a small room and that's barely enough to give reasonable illumination..


----------



## raZorTT

That's true, at the moment with the 12 35W bulbs I have (white walls mind you) I don't even turn them up above 50%.

I think i'm going to have to swap them out!


----------



## raZorTT

I hooked up a 240V downlight to the GE last night and as expected it worked perfectly. Guess I just have to decide if I think the hum will be audible when the soffit is closed up. :dontknow: Do people actually watch movies with the lights on? Obviously they don't hum when dimmed down to 0 :dontknow: 

Also, I only have 5 zones currently hooked up to the GE, so I ran a 6th lighting zone to behind the screen  Just in case I want to do something like what sandman did.


----------



## Prof.

Simon, I think the humming only occurs during the dimming of the lights..Once the lights are out, there shouldn't be any noise..


----------



## raZorTT

Didn't get that much done on the weekend unfortunately. I did get to play with my harmony and IR emitter though.

I jumped into the harmony software and went searching for the lutron to add as a new device. To my delight Lutron are available as a manufacturer under home automation > lighting controllers. My specific GE wasn't available but all the lutron devices must use the same codes (which would make sense). I think I ended up selecting a device called spacer??

Either way after I updated my remote I went into the theatre and hey presto! I could call up any of the scenes from my harmony.  :T

I hooked up my IR emitter and again with no line of sight I was able to punch in the diffrent scenes using the harmony  

Things were obviously going to well because the next thing I tried was to hook up a cable from the IR emitter into the back of the Grafik Eye. There are extra emitters available from jaycar for the connection block, but the longest length is about 3m. My switch is about 5m from where i'll be mounting the connection block, so I grabbed a 3.5mm mono plug and some wire and soldered a cable up.

I connected the wire that was soldered to the plug's tip into the IR Data port on the GE. I connected the wire that was soldered to the plug's sleeve into the IR COM (common/ground). With no line of sight I punched up a scene on the Harmony and got nothing 

I couldn't find a multimeter yesterday to check that the cable was ok. I don't really want to cut the end off of one of the extra emitters I bought to test because they are worth $20+ each. 

Any thoughts? :help:

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

I had to extend my emitters by 4M. to reach the projector and light sensor..
It wasn't a coax cable, just a single thin multi strand core..
Yours should be the same..If it looks like a very thin black cable..
You could check it by very carefully stripping back some of the cover..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> I had to extend my emitters by 4M. to reach the projector and light sensor..
> It wasn't a coax cable, just a single thin multi strand core..
> Yours should be the same..If it looks like a very thin black cable..
> You could check it by very carefully stripping back some of the cover..


Hi Prof,

I just grabbed some speaker cable and soldered one to the tip connector, the other side to the sleeve connector. That should still work shouldn't it?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

If you're using the connector that came with the IR unit, then it should work..
Is a coax cable though that the emitter is connected to?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> If you're using the connector that came with the IR unit, then it should work..
> Is a coax cable though that the emitter is connected to?


Hi Prof. 

The 6 outputs from the connection box are just 3.5mm plugs.

This is the emitter it uses. I'll check my home made cable for continuity tonight and if I can't get it to work, might have to sacrafice an emitter 

Simon


----------



## Prof.

OK..so the cable on the Emitters looks like twin flex..but it could also have a shield running through it as well..Just cutting back the covering a little will show that..
Does the cover unscrew on the plug or is it bonded?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> OK..so the cable on the Emitters looks like twin flex..but it could also have a shield running through it as well..Just cutting back the covering a little will show that..
> Does the cover unscrew on the plug or is it bonded?


The single emitter is only a single cable. 

I gave it a twist on the weekend and it didn't unscrew, so I think it's bonded.


----------



## Prof.

That's what I thought..
All you have to do is cut the cable near the plug and add in your extra length..


----------



## raZorTT

Still no luck with the emitter 

Just as I wrote the above line an email came through from lutron support, so hopefully I can work something out with them. My feeling is i'll have to find a Xantech to test it.

On the plus side I have managed to get the GE all wired up an in place. It's definitely a tight fit with all those wires in the metal box. 

I have a couple of downpipes to paint on the weekend and we should then be able to get the final signoff for the renovations. Then I can really get to work plugging up the windows and installing the sound treatments 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, did Lutron support suggest the Xantech IR repeater would be suitable? I'm just about to order...


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, did Lutron support suggest the Xantech IR repeater would be suitable? I'm just about to order...


Hi Moggie,

They didn't answer that part of my question :hissyfit:, they just suggested that my IR setting was turned off. I had already checked that and confirmed it was still turned on.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Hi Moggie,
> 
> They didn't answer that part of my question :hissyfit:, they just suggested that my IR setting was turned off. I had already checked that and confirmed it was still turned on.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Hmmm. Well I think I'll stick to my plan and order the Xantech. I'll keep you posted. The GE are just too expensive not to work so I'll be on the phone to them if it doesn't addle:


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Hmmm. Well I think I'll stick to my plan and order the Xantech. I'll keep you posted. The GE are just too expensive not to work so I'll be on the phone to them if it doesn't addle:


Thanks Moggie :T


----------



## bbieger

I would suggest you look over your wire splices again. I extended the same emitter for about 10 feet with speaker wire and had no problems at all. The only other thing I can think of is that you have the actual emitter in the wrong place. My didn't work at all on my spacer switches until I called them and found out where the receiver on the back of the switch really was. 

HOWEVER, It took several attempts and cussing to get the IR emitter and switches in perfect alignment so that all the switches would react when the signal was given. Patience and tape are your friends on this one....


----------



## raZorTT

bbieger said:


> I would suggest you look over your wire splices again. I extended the same emitter for about 10 feet with speaker wire and had no problems at all. The only other thing I can think of is that you have the actual emitter in the wrong place. My didn't work at all on my spacer switches until I called them and found out where the receiver on the back of the switch really was.
> 
> HOWEVER, It took several attempts and cussing to get the IR emitter and switches in perfect alignment so that all the switches would react when the signal was given. Patience and tape are your friends on this one....


Hi bbieger

I'm not actually using an emitter on the end of the cable. The Grafik Eye QS has a place to wire in a IR repeater in the back of it so you don't need to use an emitter to control it. From what I have read people have been able to just snip the head off the emitter and wire it up and it has worked. Unfortunately for me this hasn't worked.

I think i'll have to see how Moggie goes with the xantech and try and find that particular brand locally.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Have made a little more progress over the past week and a half.

The Grafik Eye is now installed and is hooked up to five zones. 

GE Installed

I took advantage of some spare time after work on a couple of nights to install some of the room treatments.

Back wall insulated
Another photo
Side wall insulation

The gap at the top, middle and bottom of the insulation is for the wood trim that will be installed around the room. The gaps running from floor to the bottom of the soffit are for the columns.

With the wiring for the downlights sorted I have started filling the soffits with insulation in preparation for putting the gyprock on the bottom.

Front soffit insulated

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Nice progress Simon. I bet your room is sounding different now.

Are you planning to cover the electrical plug/socket I see in the soffit photo with gyprock? That would not be allowed in the US..


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Nice progress Simon. I bet your room is sounding different now.
> 
> Are you planning to cover the electrical plug/socket I see in the soffit photo with gyprock? That would not be allowed in the US..


Thanks moggie 

Do you mean keep the insulation off the plug & base in the front soffit pic?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Now it's starting to look like a theatre!  :T


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof.

I've got my dad coming over on Saturday to help me put the gyprock on the underside of the soffits 

Slow and steady wins the race, or so i'm told!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Thanks moggie
> 
> Do you mean keep the insulation off the plug & base in the front soffit pic?


It sounded like you were going to cover the underside of the soffit with gyprock thus covering the plug/soffit. Perhaps I misunderstood...


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> It sounded like you were going to cover the underside of the soffit with gyprock thus covering the plug/soffit. Perhaps I misunderstood...


Hi Moggie,

Yep that's what the plan is. the plug bases are designed to connect downlight/transformer inside the roof cavity and bulkheads etc.

Howcome they wouldn't let you do that?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> the plug bases are designed to connect downlight/transformer inside the roof cavity and bulkheads etc.


Ok, you are probably fine then. For some reason I thought that electrical outlets must be accessible but I can't find it in the US electrical code right now. Sorry to worry you!


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Moggie,

I hope they'll be ok, it's all stuff that the electrican left behind to do the job 

Hopefully i'll have some pics of the gyprock up tomorrow afternoon :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

As promised, we got the gyprock up on the underside of the soffit today 

Front
Side
Corner

Tomorrow we will put on the edging and my dad will give it a base coat of plaster. While that's all happening i'll be cutting out the holes for the downlights.

I'm trying to decide if I should put a down light in the corner near the screen?

Should I add these two?? It would maybe make it a bit more symetrical. :scratch:

It's amazing how a small thing like this really gives a sense of progress 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## the colors

According to the NEC, all plug or cord connections need to be assessable so I would put them in a box and just splice the wires together by cutting the cord caps and put a blank cover on it. I have been doing electrical for 17 years and that pic would be illegal. Maybe ok in the attic or basement but again that would be assesable (NOT BURIED BEHIND DRYWALL).:T


----------



## the colors

Just noticed your in Australia opps, but I still would not want to have a connection point buried behind drywall cause if there ever was a problem you will not be able to find it. Seen cases where plug in the attic was melting and causing the house light to flicker. Allmost a fire so imo keep it assessable for piece of mind.


----------



## bpape

Absolutely. I don't know of anywhere that would allow a splice or plug buried without direct access.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

the colors said:


> According to the NEC, all plug or cord connections need to be assessable so I would put them in a box and just splice the wires together by cutting the cord caps and put a blank cover on it. I have been doing electrical for 17 years and that pic would be illegal. Maybe ok in the attic or basement but again that would be assesable (NOT BURIED BEHIND DRYWALL).:T





the colors said:


> Just noticed your in Australia opps, but I still would not want to have a connection point buried behind drywall cause if there ever was a problem you will not be able to find it. Seen cases where plug in the attic was melting and causing the house light to flicker. Allmost a fire so imo keep it assessable for piece of mind.





bpape said:


> Absolutely. I don't know of anywhere that would allow a splice or plug buried without direct access.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks for the input guys :T

So how do you guys install 12V downlights inside soffits if you can't put the plug inside? Would you put the plug inside the roof cavity and punch a hole through the ceiling into the soffit?

My electrician was surprised that people put downlights in MDF and other timber light trays, because he was pretty sure that wasn't allowed (in Australia).

The plugs will still be accessible in my case because I am not putting gyprock on the vertical side. My light trays will be screwed into place there. So if I ever did need to get in there for any reason I could take a light tray down.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon, I would spread out the lights over the screen a bit more, to take care of the corner lighting, and I would also suggest having 3 lights down the side wall soffits..That should give a good balance of lighting

I don't understand this talk about access..What about the hundreds of homes and offices that have downlights flush mounted to gyprock ceilings with no access to plugs or connectors!


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof. 

Yeah I think your right i'll stretch out the front lights an extra 100m each and not worry about the front corners.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## the colors

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon, I would spread out the lights over the screen a bit more, to take care of the corner lighting, and I would also suggest having 3 lights down the side wall soffits..That should give a good balance of lighting
> 
> I don't understand this talk about access..What about the hundreds of homes and offices that have downlights flush mounted to gyprock ceilings with no access to plugs or connectors!


Not sure the kind of lights they are but by cutting the plug end off an strip the wires each and connect them using wire nuts. Even though they are 12v lights its just good practice to not bury any sort of plug and cord connection, they can become loose during heating and cooling ( exspansion and contraction).


----------



## bpape

Also, just remember that any light that has a plug in cord, is not likely legal to have any of that cord inside a wall. It's not rated for inwall use.

Bryan


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon..Any further progress on your theatre?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof.

I just got back from Europe yesterday, so am hoping to get things moving again in the next week or so. I had hoped my dad might have popped in to finish up the soffit plastering but he didn't get a chance. I knew it was a long shot 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Cheers mate..Look forward to it..


----------



## moggieuk

Hi Simon,

I thought I'd let you know I finally wired up my IR system using the Xantech distribution system. I had no problem whatsoever controlling the GE via either a remote IR emitter or direct connection.

The specific parts are used are:
1. Xantech DL25 Standard Dinky Link IR sensor
2. via about 40' cat6 cable (wired as per the PDF I sent you) to a Xantech 79144 One Zone Ten Source Amplified Connecting Block
3. direct connection (3.5mm jack soldered to 20' cat6 cable) to the GE (QS model). The direct IR connection was it's low power setting.

My biggest problem was getting hold of the GE IR codes -- I don't have a Lutron remote so eventually I downloaded codes from remote central to my now very old Phillips Pronto to try it out. Of course it has been 5 years since I last programmed the remote and I lost the serial cable, plus computers today tend to only have USB connections no RS232, so several hours later trying to get a USB to RS232 bridge to work and making a new custom cable to connect to my remote I was in business. When almost -- in five years the NiCad batteries had fried so I took those apart and soldered in new cells. Finally after a fresh charge I could access all 16 scenes, global up/down and individual zone up/down. Not the most productive theater building day but a successful one.

BTW I little trick I'm using is to program some of the hidden scenes with simple controls to change a single light zone and leave all others unchanged (the QS allows this I don't know about the GRX). I can thus have a scene that turns the star ceiling on, another for off, that I can apply to any other starting scene without affecting anything other than the star ceiling. I'm also using it via a remote macro sequence to play some cool lighting sequences like a poor mans DMX controller...

Hope this helps you. Good luck.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> I thought I'd let you know I finally wired up my IR system using the Xantech distribution system. I had no problem whatsoever controlling the GE via either a remote IR emitter or direct connection.
> 
> The specific parts are used are:
> 1. Xantech DL25 Standard Dinky Link IR sensor
> 2. via about 40' cat6 cable (wired as per the PDF I sent you) to a Xantech 79144 One Zone Ten Source Amplified Connecting Block
> 3. direct connection (3.5mm jack soldered to 20' cat6 cable) to the GE (QS model). The direct IR connection was it's low power setting.
> 
> My biggest problem was getting hold of the GE IR codes -- I don't have a Lutron remote so eventually I downloaded codes from remote central to my now very old Phillips Pronto to try it out. Of course it has been 5 years since I last programmed the remote and I lost the serial cable, plus computers today tend to only have USB connections no RS232, so several hours later trying to get a USB to RS232 bridge to work and making a new custom cable to connect to my remote I was in business. When almost -- in five years the NiCad batteries had fried so I took those apart and soldered in new cells. Finally after a fresh charge I could access all 16 scenes, global up/down and individual zone up/down. Not the most productive theater building day but a successful one.
> 
> BTW I little trick I'm using is to program some of the hidden scenes with simple controls to change a single light zone and leave all others unchanged (the QS allows this I don't know about the GRX). I can thus have a scene that turns the star ceiling on, another for off, that I can apply to any other starting scene without affecting anything other than the star ceiling. I'm also using it via a remote macro sequence to play some cool lighting sequences like a poor mans DMX controller...
> 
> Hope this helps you. Good luck.


Hi Moggie,

Thanks for the update! I was actually thinking this morning that I was going to fire off a PM to you to see if you'd had the chance to try things but you have beaten me to it 

Great news things worked straight away. Shame getting the codes up and running was such a hassle. Nothing ever turns out as simple as we plan when working on these rooms  I have a logitech Harmony and was able to download all the codes from their website.

Great idea with the hidden zone to shut off the star ceiling. I had forgotten there was more than just the 5 on the front. 

Looks like it's time to find some xantech gear! 

Thanks Moggie!
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Just for fun I tried and experiment for you: I connected the direct GE IR connection to the IR out of my Integra pre/pro and used it's front panel IR sensor (i.e. excluding the Xantech stuff completely) -- this also works. I'm wondering if you have a bad GE?


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Just for fun I tried and experiment for you: I connected the direct GE IR connection to the IR out of my Integra pre/pro and used it's front panel IR sensor (i.e. excluding the Xantech stuff completely) -- this also works. I'm wondering if you have a bad GE?


Great idea Moggie!! I'll give it a go with my Yamaha and see if the GE works. Fingers crossed!!! I really don't want it to be the GE that is the problem! :hissyfit:

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hi folks,

I was able to spend about a day and a half in the HT this weekend 

The mission was to get the majority of the furring strips up. They serve two purposes:
1. To attach the wood trim that will be running under the soffit, along the floor and along the middle.
2. As attachment points for my fabric panels and columns.

side wall
rear corner

My plasterer (dad) is away at the moment so i'm still waiting on a couple extra coats of plaster on the soffit. I didn't put the top furring strip up because I want to wait so that the plastering and painting will be easier.

I still have a little bit to go around the equipment closet, the theatre entrance and across the windows once they are plugged up. 

It was great to be back in there working though :T:T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hi Simon,
How are you planning to attach the fabric to the furring strips?
At the moment it looks like the insulation is projecting beyond the timber strips..


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof

I had planned to build panels that would then attach to the furring strips. 
At the moment the insulation protrudes about 15mm and my panels would be 20mm to just cover everything. 

I am waiting for a call back about pricing on a fabric track system. I am just curious to see how much it is because I was really impressed with the results moggie got with his. 

Have you seen any fabric track systems locally?

Cheers 
Simon


----------



## Prof.

This one might be suitable..
http://www.snap-tex.com.au/System/sys_fb.html


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> This one might be suitable..
> http://www.snap-tex.com.au/System/sys_fb.html


Thanks for the link :T. I gave them a call and you would be looking at about $80 for a 2.7m x 25mm length :doh:
Quite a bit more expensive than building my own panels.

I am waiting for a call back about another track called Kliptex, but I expect it will be around the same sort of money.

I might work out how much I would actually need. I suspect it would be around $1500 worth 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

It hardly seems worth it, when you could just build up your furring strips to be the same depth as the insulation..and then just stretch and staple the cloth onto them..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> It hardly seems worth it, when you could just build up your furring strips to be the same depth as the insulation..and then just stretch and staple the cloth onto them..


Hmm Good point. I guess having trim top, middle and bottom would mean I don't even need to build panels. Like you say staple to the furring strip and then attach the the trim over the top. Hmm some food for thought. 

Thanks prof!
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Simon,

the Prof's suggestion is definitely the simplest. In my case I wanted a particular paneled look with some depth texture to the walls. I was planning to build wood frames, but it would have been a time sink and I'd already sunk so much time into other areas of the build. The track was a little spendy but has one big advantage over stapled down with trim top and that is the ability to easily replace/repair an individual panel. I've also been impressed with how evenly tensioned the fabric is using the roller insertion tool -- if it ever stretches a couple of rolls with the tool is all it will take to tighten it up again.


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Moggie,

I do like the idea of being able to easily re-adjust the tension of the fabric. Although I haven't heard too much complaints from people saying GOM started to sag after a while. Come to think of it I don't think I ever have?

I got a call back from a local insulation place that can get their hands on a product called kliptex that could be very promising. The price was almost reasonable at $25 for a 2.8m length. The company is going to express post them some samples so I should be able to go and check them out on Friday morning.

I guess I need to work out how much I would actually need to help with the decision making!

Thanks guys!
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I did some numbers tonight and I think i'd need about 100m of the track to do the room.

I found this video on youtube of guys installing fabric. 

What do you guys think? I guess i'll wait to check out the sample later this week.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

The Kliptex track system certainly looks to be a better proposition..Certainly price wise..
It looks very simple to use from the video..I'll be interested to hear your thoughts when you get the sample..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> The Kliptex track system certainly looks to be a better proposition..Certainly price wise..
> It looks very simple to use from the video..I'll be interested to hear your thoughts when you get the sample..


I was able to go and check out the kliptex system yesterday afternoon. It turns out they had a little display panel. It was small at only 300mm X 300mm but at least I got to take a look. 

It's a fairly low profile, about 8-9mm max when snapped up holding fabric. I think it might be a challenge to get some of the larger panels nice and even, but I guess the advantage over stapling is you can undo it and try again.

I have a bad iPhone shot of it that I'll upload this evening if I get the chance. 

I'm unsure what to do. I would need over 110m which would cost about $1000. Maybe I'll build a wood panel on the weekend and decide based on how that turns out. 

Cheers 
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

While I'm here I'll fire off another quick question. 

I have so far treated the side walls with insulation up to ear level. What do people do on the sides next to a riser? Do they just continue the treatment at the same level? Or do they go up the same height of the riser?

Cheers
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

raZorTT said:


> I have a bad iPhone shot of it that I'll upload this evening if I get the chance.


Here's a pic of the Kliptex system. Apologies for the average quality.

Kliptex sample

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## chrapladm

How do you think this Kliptex system, would do for a screen wall?

Sounds like it would work out pretty good and maybe make my horrible upholstery skills seem alot better.


----------



## raZorTT

chrapladm said:


> How do you think this Kliptex system, would do for a screen wall?
> 
> Sounds like it would work out pretty good and maybe make my horrible upholstery skills seem alot better.


I think it would be pretty good for a screen wall. I guess it would depend how you have your screen mounted and whether or not you need to be able to get back behind there. Pulling a panel off would definitely be easier than undoing the kliptex.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I was able to go and check out the kliptex system yesterday afternoon. It turns out they had a little display panel. It was small at only 300mm X 300mm but at least I got to take a look.
> 
> It's a fairly low profile, about 8-9mm max when snapped up holding fabric. I think it might be a challenge to get some of the larger panels nice and even, but I guess the advantage over stapling is you can undo it and try again.
> 
> I have a bad iPhone shot of it that I'll upload this evening if I get the chance.
> 
> I'm unsure what to do. I would need over 110m which would cost about $1000. Maybe I'll build a wood panel on the weekend and decide based on how that turns out.
> 
> Cheers
> Simon


Personally I wouldn't bother with it..unless you specifically want to have that grooved look to the panels..
If you're running strip mouldings or columns and the like on the sidewalls, then there isn't much point to using a track system..
I would much rather use that $1000 on something else!


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> While I'm here I'll fire off another quick question.
> 
> I have so far treated the side walls with insulation up to ear level. What do people do on the sides next to a riser? Do they just continue the treatment at the same level? Or do they go up the same height of the riser?
> 
> Cheers
> Simon


With the treatment already up to ear level, I would just continue it through at the same level..No need to go up any higher for the riser..


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I think it would be pretty good for a screen wall. I guess it would depend how you have your screen mounted and whether or not you need to be able to get back behind there. Pulling a panel off would definitely be easier than undoing the kliptex.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Yes..definitely don't use a track system for a screenwall..Removable panels is whats required to gain access to the rear..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> With the treatment already up to ear level, I would just continue it through at the same level..No need to go up any higher for the riser..


The reason I thought it might be worth while is because my riser is pretty large at 430mm.

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Wow! That's a high riser for the second row!!
Even so, I still wouldn't worry about stepping up the insulation to take into account the riser height..
I don't think it's going to make much difference either way..and particularly with all that insulation on the back wall..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Wow! That's a high riser for the second row!!
> Even so, I still wouldn't worry about stepping up the insulation to take into account the riser height..
> I don't think it's going to make much difference either way..and particularly with all that insulation on the back wall..


Thanks prof :T

The reason it's such a big riser is because you enter the room from the original house, straight onto the riser. To get the higher ceiling I dropped the floor down 

Well i went down to bunnings this morning and found a small corner clamp for only $10. So I set about building one of the smaller panels for the rear wall. The clamp did a great job of keeping things together so that I could drill, countersink and screw the timber together.

I also grabbed some GOM and fired up the air compressor and stapler. Before I knew it I had 3 panels built and wrapped with fabric! :T. That's about 1/5 of my panels built already. Admittedly they are the small ones, but I think i'll put the $1000-$1200 towards something else :bigsmile:.

First 3 panels

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

What do you think about me running my HDMI cable inside my soffit instead of in the roof?

I had planned to put it up in the roof just in case I ever needed to replace it, but even up there it's very tight and not particularly easy to get at. If I put it in the soffit I would need to pull the soffit down to replace it, but it'll be simple to install now while it's still open.

Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Well i went down to bunnings this morning and found a small corner clamp for only $10. So I set about building one of the smaller panels for the rear wall. The clamp did a great job of keeping things together so that I could drill, countersink and screw the timber together.


I used those corner clamps when I built my frames..They're great..



> I also grabbed some GOM and fired up the air compressor and stapler. Before I knew it I had 3 panels built and wrapped with fabric! :T. That's about 1/5 of my panels built already. Admittedly they are the small ones, but I think i'll put the $1000-$1200 towards something else :bigsmile:.
> 
> First 3 panels


The panels look good Simon..How did you attach them?


----------



## chrapladm

Couldn't you use a piece of pvc pipe for your ceiling just for the HDMI cable? You could put it into your soffit also but I figured it might be alittle crowded up there. If the PVC pipe was in the ceiling it should be easier to change put the cabling....no?


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> What do you think about me running my HDMI cable inside my soffit instead of in the roof?
> 
> I had planned to put it up in the roof just in case I ever needed to replace it, but even up there it's very tight and not particularly easy to get at. If I put it in the soffit I would need to pull the soffit down to replace it, but it'll be simple to install now while it's still open.
> 
> Simon


My 10M. HDMI cable runs partway through the soffit, but I have access from the top..
It would be easier to run it through the soffit..Can you include an access panel somewhere?


----------



## raZorTT

chrapladm said:


> Couldn't you use a piece of pvc pipe for your ceiling just for the HDMI cable? You could put it into your soffit also but I figured it might be alittle crowded up there. If the PVC pipe was in the ceiling it should be easier to change put the cabling....no?


Maybe a piece of pipe in soffit would be the go. I'm really not found of getting up in the roof. The trusses from the old house finish right around the soffit so there is only 20-30cms to play with. And to get above the theatre requires me to become a contortionist. A PVC pipe or access panel in the ceiling would be nightmare. 

I guess it costs a bit more initially but I'd be swearing my head off later if things failed.

Thanks guys!! :T


----------



## raZorTT

> The panels look good Simon..How did you attach them?


sorry prof I missed this first time. At the moment I have Velcro about the size of a 50c piece on each corner. It's good stuff! I can barely pull them off! I had to staple the Velcro to the panel and wall because the bind was so strong the adhesive let go 

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yeah..I found the same thing with that self adhesive Velcro..Even though the adhesive is very strong, you still have to staple the pieces on..and if you use too much Velcro, you'll never get the panels off again without wrecking them!


----------



## raZorTT

I think I still have my first test panel I velcro'd up, or what is left of it


----------



## brianhutchins

I'm thinking of trying some magnets to keep my panels on. Might be easier to take on and off.


----------



## raZorTT

brianhutchins said:


> I'm thinking of trying some magnets to keep my panels on. Might be easier to take on and off.


Magnets would probably be a good option  might be a bit of extra work attaching them to the panels and walls though? Would it just be a matter of gluing them to the panels? Are there any magnets that you could screw in?

They would either need to protrude out past the wrapped and stapled fabric (it can be a little thick around corners) or be strong enough to be underneath and still hold.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Have you guys got 5.1 or 7.1 setups?

I was wondering what was the ideal height for surround speakers? I thought people generally put them higher than ear level? but how much higher?

I'm going a 7.1 setup and I think to get the rear surrounds up high enough to fire over the second row of chairs they will need to be about 1.8-2.0m off the ground. Should I also put the left and right surrounds at the same height? Or would they be better a little lower?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon,

I'm using a 5.1 set up in my room..mainly because the room is only 5M. long and I only have one row.. 
With the Tripole surrounds I get good extension to the rear, to the point that some sounds appear to be past the back wall..

In a longer room with two rows, you could get some additional benefit with 7.1 but not entirely necessary, particularly if you're using Dipoles..

Best position for the surrounds is about 2M.up from floor level and keep all the surrounds at the same height..
If you're using surrounds on the back wall, they should be roughly 2 chair widths apart for the best effect..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof 2m should clear things no worries  I'm glad you said that cause I was looking at around 1600mm last night and it wasn't going to cut it :T

I don't have dipoles, just your garden variety speaker for the four surround positions.

When I designed the room I had the THX 7.1 chart as a reference, so the rear surrounds should be about where you are suggesting. I think they are about 1700mm apart 

I've got on my weekend shopping list 6m of PVC pipe with a few 45 degree bends so that I can put the HDMI cable, IR repeater cable (if I ever get it to work) and a couple extra draw strings through the soffit 

I'm trying not to do any more panels because we still have some sanding to do and I don't want to have to pull all of them down  

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Today I tried to get my IR repeater hooked up to the Grafik Eye QS.

No matter what I did I couldn't get it to work. I created a brand new cable out of cat6 the ran from my GE to the IR repeater and it still work. The cable is was only 0.5m long so that I could eliminate voltage drop.

:hissyfit:

I think there must be something wrong with the GE. I've sent technical support an email to see if there is a way I can check it, but i'm not holding my breath 
I'm sure whatever warranty it had when I bought it has run out considering it's been sitting there so long.

Simon


----------



## bpape

Do you have an actual GE remote to verify that there's really a problem with it? Aren't you using a universal remote and embedded codes rather than learned ones from the GE remote?

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Do you have an actual GE remote to verify that there's really a problem with it? Aren't you using a universal remote and embedded codes rather than learned ones from the GE remote?
> 
> Bryan


Hi Bryan,

No unfortunately I don't have an official GE remote to test it with. I have a logitech remote with the codes from their website. When I point the logitech directly at the GE it changes scenes and turns off fine. It's only when I step away and try to do the same via a repeater that i'm having the problems 

Simon


----------



## bpape

Are you 100% sure that the repeater system will accept the frequencies that the codes generate?

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Are you 100% sure that the repeater system will accept the frequencies that the codes generate?
> 
> Bryan


If I put the emitters from the repeater in front of the GE I can control it with the logitech from another room 

Emitters

Cheers
Simon


----------



## bpape

OK. That's a good thing. At least we know it CAN function. The only things it can be are:

Bad wiring

Bad emitter

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> OK. That's a good thing. At least we know it CAN function. The only things it can be are:
> 
> Bad wiring
> 
> Bad emitter
> 
> Bryan


I'm trying to find my single head emitter so that I can chop the head off it to rule out the repeater and wiring as the issue. 

Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, sorry to hear of your IR problems. As you know it worked perfectly for me. Did you try using the IR output of the AVR? (any modern AVR would likely handle the necessary IR frequencies). 

If this doesn't work I'd look at the wiring to the GE. Are you sure the IR connector on the GE is fully inserted? .. the plug detaches to make is easier to connect the wires and needs to be reseated correctly. If this checks out ok I'd bet the GE is defective.

BTW do you have a GRX or QS series GE?

Cheers.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, sorry to hear of your IR problems. As you know it worked perfectly for me. Did you try using the IR output of the AVR? (any modern AVR would likely handle the necessary IR frequencies).
> 
> If this doesn't work I'd look at the wiring to the GE. Are you sure the IR connector on the GE is fully inserted? .. the plug detaches to make is easier to connect the wires and needs to be reseated correctly. If this checks out ok I'd bet the GE is defective.
> 
> BTW do you have a GRX or QS series GE?
> 
> Cheers.


Hey Moggie,

I have a QS, but not the wireless version.

I tried hooking things up to my yamaha AVR and didn't have any luck. I'm not sure if how I connected things to it were right though. I couldn't get my emitters to turn off my TV :-\ Did you just hook up emitters to the ir/remote out? 

I'm not sure about the connection, it does wobble a bit. I might need to disconnect the GE and take a closer look. 

On a positive note I managed to run some PVC pipe from my equipment cupboard through the soffit and to where i'll be mounting the projector. I ran my HDMI, component, IR and an extra draw cable through.

Simon


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> I tried hooking things up to my yamaha AVR and didn't have any luck. I'm not sure if how I connected things to it were right though. I couldn't get my emitters to turn off my TV :-\ Did you just hook up emitters to the ir/remote out?
> 
> I'm not sure about the connection, it does wobble a bit. I might need to disconnect the GE and take a closer look.


I didn't use emitters -- just direct wired the IR out from the AVR to the IR in on the GE. The connector I'm referring to is the block connector on the GE. It can be pulled off to fit the wires then refitted. I wonder if it's not seated properly. Other than that are you sure you have the polarity correct?

Good luck.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> I didn't use emitters -- just direct wired the IR out from the AVR to the IR in on the GE. The connector I'm referring to is the block connector on the GE. It can be pulled off to fit the wires then refitted. I wonder if it's not seated properly. Other than that are you sure you have the polarity correct?
> 
> Good luck.


You mean the orange connector in this pic? 
GE

Do you have to do anything special to get it off? Or just pull it?
I'd be so happy if it turns out it's not seated correctly!

Thanks Moggie!
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I got home from work this afternoon and had a look at the IR connector on the Grafik Eye. A gentle tug on it and it popped out.

I connected my wires up to it and then pushed it back into place. 

Still wouldn't work  I pulled it out again, switched the wires over and pushed it back into place. Nothing happened 

Lutron support got back to me and said please call when I am on site. So I guess that's my next option.

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Best position for the surrounds is about 2M.up from floor level and keep all the surrounds at the same height..
> If you're using surrounds on the back wall, they should be roughly 2 chair widths apart for the best effect..


seeing as I am using standard forward firing speakers for my surround positions. Should I be pointing them towards the main listening position? 

I'm trying to come up with a design for my columns that won't get in the way

cheers
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

The side surrounds should point directly at each other, but they can be angled down slightly so they just fire a little over the top of your head when seated..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> The side surrounds should point directly at each other, but they can be angled down slightly so they just fire a little over the top of your head when seated..


Thanks Prof do you think they should still point towards one another if they sit closer to the 110 degree angle rather than 90 (right beside the main listening position)?

I was thinking about trying to turn the rear columns into a place to store some of the remotes and other bits and pieces that will no doubt litter the theatre. but it's probably a waste of time (and considerable effort) considering you'd have to get past recliners etc to get to them.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yes..Mine are behind the seating position and they still point directly at each other and angle down slightly..


----------



## raZorTT

Here are a couple of options for the rear columns that I drew up quickly in sketchup.

Framed VS MDF

Both will be wrapped in GOM so should look identical. If I go the MDF version i'll stuff it full of insulation like Bryan suggested a while back. 

I think I'm leaning towards the MDF version because it should be stronger and hold it's shape better. Do you guys think the MDF version would be fine? Is resonance really the only thing I need to be worried about?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Providing the MDF version is filled with insulation, it should be fine..


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Providing the MDF version is filled with insulation, it should be fine..


----------



## raZorTT

Made a little more progress this weekend :T

I built the shelves for the surround speakers. The center of the speakers are 2.0m off the ground.

Surround shelf
Shelves

I also built one column out of MDF.

Column
side of column

Nothing that exciting about the construction. Just a small piece of quad on the inside of each corner and a small piece to brace the top and bottom.

Am happy with the result. I'll probably give it a coat of black paint just in case and then wrap it in GOM.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Just a couple of things..If you are covering the whole column with GOM, are you providing separate access panels for the surrounds, or will the whole column be easily removed to gain access?

The other thing is (and this might be how you've just placed the speakers temporarily) the surrounds will need to be right at the face of the columns, so there is no timber obstructing the distribution of sound..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> Just a couple of things..If you are covering the whole column with GOM, are you providing separate access panels for the surrounds, or will the whole column be easily removed to gain access?
> 
> The other thing is (and this might be how you've just placed the speakers temporarily) the surrounds will need to be right at the face of the columns, so there is no timber obstructing the distribution of sound..


Hey prof

I had been planning on just making the whole column removable. 

Thanks for the tip on moving the speakers a bit further forward. I might need to make some slghtly larger shelves so that they stick out a mm behind the gom. I think I left about 15 mm and I'd prefer not to have the front of the speaker hanging over the edge. :T

cheers
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Just another little tip for you Simon..

In my first theatre I had my surrounds mounted on shelves..Every time some bass thundered out, the walls would vibrate and the shelves would vibrate as well and move the speakers out of position, to the point where they nearly fell off once!
I finished up putting some of that rubbery non slip mesh mat (i think it's called grip liner) you can get from cheap stores, and comes in a variety of colours.. Worked perfectly!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Just another little tip for you Simon..
> 
> In my first theatre I had my surrounds mounted on shelves..Every time some bass thundered out, the walls would vibrate and the shelves would vibrate as well and move the speakers out of position, to the point where they nearly fell off once!
> I finished up putting some of that rubbery non slip mesh mat (i think it's called grip liner) you can get from cheap stores, and comes in a variety of colours.. Worked perfectly!!


Thanks for the tip Prof that's a great idea! Will see what's on offer!

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Got a little more done this weekend 

Have built all of the rear columns now and also given them a coat of black paint. Just need to wrap them in GOM and they're ready to install 

Painted rear columns

One of the "issues" I had with making the columns and having them removable was that if I was to make them full height I would destroy the paint on the bottom of the soffit putting them in place and any other time I need to remove them.

So I have made the columns 15mm shorter than the length from soffit to floor so they will be easy to get in and out of place. What i'm going to do is make trim pieces probably around 90mm thick that will go around the top and bottom of the column to finish them off.

I was thinking of making the trim pieces out of a piece of steel, painted black and wrapped in GOM to match the rest of the column.

I have ordered some strong magnets off ebay that i plan to recess and glue into the columns so in theory the trim pieces will be held in place and will be very quick to remove if I ever need to :T

If the metal trim option turns out to be no good I will make them out of the Ash that I'm going to have around the room.

I was also able to get a coat of Satin on my light trays today. They're currently drying in the garage. The plan is to get the light trays built and installed next weekend 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon,

I can't get the photo up..
Making the trims out of metal and covering them in GOM seems like a lot of work to me..
As always..looking for the easiest solution, I would just get some timber moulding from Bunnings..You can get pre-finished timber mouldings in various widths (the white painted stuff) and just paint it matt black!
That's what I did on my screen wall and it looks quite nice..
This is what I used..








[/IMG]


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> I can't get the photo up..
> Making the trims out of metal and covering them in GOM seems like a lot of work to me..
> As always..looking for the easiest solution, I would just get some timber moulding from Bunnings..You can get pre-finished timber mouldings in various widths (the white painted stuff) and just paint it matt black!
> That's what I did on my screen wall and it looks quite nice..
> This is what I used..
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [/IMG]


Hey Prof.

The pic should be up now, had to reboot the server it was sitting on :boxer:

Thanks for pulling me up on the trim :T I seem to enjoy over complicating things  I was worried because it wouldn't be flush like the rest of the trim in the room, but if it's black and has a simple profile I think it will look quite good 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Got it now :T


----------



## raZorTT

Was up at 6am this morning and on the phone to Lutron tech support in the US. We have been exchanging emails over the past few weeks about my IR port problem on the grafik eye.

They had given me a list of things to try to confirm that the issue was the GE before they would organise to send me a replacement. I gave them a call this morning to report that everything was working fine until the step where I had to wire the repeater up to the port on the back.

I have been very impressed with lutron's support, phone and via email. It's refreshing to have a large company like theirs back up their reputation for great products with great support. They took down my details and are going to ship me out a replacement . Thanks moggie for the gentle nudge towards asking about a replacement.

Hopefully it won't take too long to get to me and I can finally have my IR repeater hooked up and working!


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, glad to hear about the GE replacement -- they are just too expensive not to work correctly!! I agree about Lutron support, they even told me of a back door way to use the inactive shade zones to switch additional lights (did require an additional component).


----------



## raZorTT

Another small update from the weekend 

We started the final stage of constructing the light trays yesterday and began to put them up in place 

I had previously stained and estapoled the visible part of the light tray and painted the MDF to be used for the back/upright matt black.

We used a piece of 18mm x 18mm quarter section to join the back and tray together.

Tray assembled

We measured, cut, assembled and installed the tray above the screen first up. We then worked our way around the room section by section, checking the cuts/angles and making sure the mitres were nice and tight before gluing and screwing the trays in place. The first tray took us a couple hours to get organised and installed, but we then made pretty quick progress with the next four. We have four left to install down the other side of the room, but should be able to knock them out in half a day. 

First tray up
A few more installed

I'm going to try to get up to BigW this afternoon to check out their xmas light section. I'm hoping to find some clips or similar to hold the rope light in place in the tray.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Looking good Simon! Those pics look eerily familiar, since I'm at a similar stage (put in soffit lights and test installed rope light today). I bought my rope light and the little clips to hold it in place at 1000lights.com - haven't tried the clips yet though - the rope light seems to work well though.


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Looking good Simon! Those pics look eerily familiar, since I'm at a similar stage (put in soffit lights and test installed rope light today). I bought my rope light and the little clips to hold it in place at 1000lights.com - haven't tried the clips yet though - the rope light seems to work well though.


Thanks for the tip on the clips! I'm going to take a look now. 

I grabbed some standard cable clips from the hardware store but they were a waste of time 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

I couldn't find any suitable plastic clips when I put up my rope light so I used tool clips..Worked well!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> I couldn't find any suitable plastic clips when I put up my rope light so I used tool clips..Worked well!


Thanks Prof ill see what's available. 

My fall back will be some plastic angle with holes drilled in it, then i'll just cable tie all the ropelight in place

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Another idea I came across recently for mounting the rope light was to lay down a strip of that white plastic angle..You drill two vertical holes in the upright of the angle, evenly spaced along the length..Then you lay the rope light in the angle and tie it of with cable ties..
You get some additional light re-enforcement that way from the angle..

Haha...Looks like you beat me to it!!


----------



## fitzwaddle

I was doing some testing with my rope light last night to see how it looked before finalizing the physical location within the tray.

I bought a 100' roll of the stuff, which is actually enough to go around the soffit twice - so one thing I was checking was to see whether I liked the look any better with two runs around vs. one - for example, would it help to smooth away any "dottiness" from the individual elements, or otherwise improve the light distribution. Didn't seem to make any appreciable difference - well, brighter, but one run was plenty bright when full on.

The other thing I was testing was the effect of where within the tray the rope was placed - for example, all the way to the wall, or all the way to the tray edge bottom, or in the middle. I found that the light was more diffuse against the ceiling if I located the rope against the wall, but up about an inch from the bottom of the tray. All the way down result in a harder edge on the light cast on the ceiling. I like the more diffuse look better.

I'll experiment some more tonight before settling on where to place the clips, and whether to run the rope around twice, or cut it and just one run.


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Another idea I came across recently for mounting the rope light was to lay down a strip of that white plastic angle..You drill two vertical holes in the upright of the angle, evenly spaced along the length..Then you lay the rope light in the angle and tie it of with cable ties..
> You get some additional light re-enforcement that way from the angle..
> 
> Haha...Looks like you beat me to it!!


hehe. Yeah i've seen a couple of guys on DTV use that method  

The tool clips I just realised might be tough because I won't be able to get a drill in to attach them to the trays I already have put up 

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> I was doing some testing with my rope light last night to see how it looked before finalizing the physical location within the tray.
> 
> I bought a 100' roll of the stuff, which is actually enough to go around the soffit twice - so one thing I was checking was to see whether I liked the look any better with two runs around vs. one - for example, would it help to smooth away any "dottiness" from the individual elements, or otherwise improve the light distribution. Didn't seem to make any appreciable difference - well, brighter, but one run was plenty bright when full on.
> 
> The other thing I was testing was the effect of where within the tray the rope was placed - for example, all the way to the wall, or all the way to the tray edge bottom, or in the middle. I found that the light was more diffuse against the ceiling if I located the rope against the wall, but up about an inch from the bottom of the tray. All the way down result in a harder edge on the light cast on the ceiling. I like the more diffuse look better.
> 
> I'll experiment some more tonight before settling on where to place the clips, and whether to run the rope around twice, or cut it and just one run.


That's exactly what I was hoping to do last night, but couldn't get the rope to stop twisting in the tray . 

It's great that a single run doesn't hot spot your wall and ceiling . I hope my rope will be the same. Are you going to have the rope connected to a grafik eye or something similar that will let you dim the brightness?

The reflection i'm getting is more on the wall than the ceiling. The velvet I have on the ceiling is pretty good at absorbing the light, so i'll probably end up with the rope at the front of the tray.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Are you going to have the rope connected to a grafik eye or something similar that will let you dim the brightness?


Yes, its hooked to one of the 4 zones on my Grafik Eye.

I tried to capture what I was seeing in a picture, but apparently I'm not very good at low light photography:

left side is with the rope at the back of the tray; just to the right of middle is where it is raised up about an inch - see how the light fades on the ceiling vs. being a more abrupt line?










I may pick up some paint color samples to place in the tray and/or tape to the ceiling, to see how the effect will look against a darker paint. Right now its just white primer.


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Yes, its hooked to one of the 4 zones on my Grafik Eye.
> 
> I tried to capture what I was seeing in a picture, but apparently I'm not very good at low light photography:
> 
> left side is with the rope at the back of the tray; just to the right of middle is where it is raised up about an inch - see how the light fades on the ceiling vs. being a more abrupt line?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I may pick up some paint color samples to place in the tray and/or tape to the ceiling, to see how the effect will look against a darker paint. Right now its just white primer.


Yep I prefer the gentle gradient as well. I might end up lifting mine off the tray to get the same effect :T


----------



## raZorTT

I went to Bunnings yesterday after work and grabbed some white plastic angle and a couple packets of translucent zip ties.

I drilled two holes every 150mm along so that I could feed through a zip tie to hold the rope light in place. I originally started with holes every 300mm but that distance still gave the rope room to move around.

plastic angle
plastic angle corner

The rope is now much better behaved :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

That should do the job nicely..
It looks like you have the same type of rope light as mine! Does it have a ribbed surface?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> That should do the job nicely..
> It looks like you have the same type of rope light as mine! Does it have a ribbed surface?


No the ropelight is smooth. It's just the 10m chrissy lights that Big W are selling at the moment 

Interestingly though, the two lengths I bought this year are quite different to the one I bought last year (that's how long this build is taking  ). The old one is much thicker and is more opaque than the new stuff.

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Well on Friday I had 4 or 5 mates over to play GT5 in the unfinished HT and it became quite obvious that I need to put some aircon in there. It was only mid-high 20s but with the gear running and extra people in there it became a bit uncomfortable 

My only option is to install a small split system (the rest of the house doesn't have any aircon either). Do you guys think it would be alright to install it on the wall behind the screen??

I was wondering whether the cool air would penetrate the AT screen and the GOM. I guess i'd have to make sure that it didn't make the screen flap/wobble. 

What do you guys think?

SImon


----------



## moggieuk

Are you talking about a ductless mini split system? I would guess that it is not a great idea because it would limit the diffusion of cold air and would tend to recirculate the cold air behind the screen, but whether the air moves the screen would depend on in which direction the vents are pointing.

There is no way to put it high on the back wall?


----------



## Prof.

Hi Simon,

I definitely wouldn't put the aircon, behind the screenwall..The air flow will be restricted and you might get some flexing in the AT screen..:thumbsdown:

I was faced with a similar predicament in my theatre and my room is smaller than yours..

These were my choices..
Front wall...I have a screen wall floor to ceiling..Not suitable..
Back wall...The soffit tray virtually sits on top of rear window...No room between ceiling and trays
Side walls..Above the soffit trays...Same as back..not enough room..
Side walls..Beneath the soffit trays...First and second reflection point panels go up to just under the trays..Not enough room..
I couldn't lower the panels because their effectiveness would be reduced, because my speakers are above the screen!
The other problem was that I couldn't even fit a unit between the second reflection panel and the surround speakers!..and certainly not between the surrounds and the back wall. 

What to do..what to do!!..
I finished up finding a small Kelvinator window type airconditioner, that just fitted between the acoustic panels..
I cut a hole in the wall and set it up so it was almost flush with the wall..and I painted it matt black..
It's not quite as quiet as a split system, but it cools the room nicely..and when you've got a movie blasting away, you don't even hear it! 

Now in your situation you may be able to leave enough room between the soffits and the panels on the side wall to fit a split system in there..

Hope that helps..


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Are you talking about a ductless mini split system? I would guess that it is not a great idea because it would limit the diffusion of cold air and would tend to recirculate the cold air behind the screen, but whether the air moves the screen would depend on in which direction the vents are pointing.
> 
> There is no way to put it high on the back wall?


Yep a split ductless system.



Prof. said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> I definitely wouldn't put the aircon, behind the screenwall..The air flow will be restricted and you might get some flexing in the AT screen..:thumbsdown:
> 
> I was faced with a similar predicament in my theatre and my room is smaller than yours..
> 
> These were my choices..
> Front wall...I have a screen wall floor to ceiling..Not suitable..
> Back wall...The soffit tray virtually sits on top of rear window...No room between ceiling and trays
> Side walls..Above the soffit trays...Same as back..not enough room..
> Side walls..Beneath the soffit trays...First and second reflection point panels go up to just under the trays..Not enough room..
> I couldn't lower the panels because their effectiveness would be reduced, because my speakers are above the screen!
> The other problem was that I couldn't even fit a unit between the second reflection panel and the surround speakers!..and certainly not between the surrounds and the back wall.
> 
> What to do..what to do!!..
> I finished up finding a small Kelvinator window type airconditioner, that just fitted between the acoustic panels..
> I cut a hole in the wall and set it up so it was almost flush with the wall..and I painted it matt black..
> It's not quite as quiet as a split system, but it cools the room nicely..and when you've got a movie blasting away, you don't even hear it!
> 
> Now in your situation you may be able to leave enough room between the soffits and the panels on the side wall to fit a split system in there..
> 
> Hope that helps..


I guess I was hoping you guys would say yes so that I can keep things hidden  I was entertaining the idea of putting it behind the screen wall (as high as possible) and building a duct to the screen wall and then putting a grill in above the screen. Probably more trouble than it's worth and the grill would probably detract from the look of the room.

I do have the option of putting it in the corner on the back wall or underneath the soffit along a side wall, but I think the side wall would stand out to much.

I think i'm going to get my dad to get his aircon/hvac guy to come around and take a look and maybe offer up a suggestion. If I didn't have a star ceiling I would have gone with one of the new ceiling cassette conditioners that I have seen over the last couple days.

Thanks guys!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

On a brighter note, my dad and I finished off the rest of the light trays today :T. They were a lot of effort but I am really happy with how they have come out.

I have a few pictures, but the server I usually host my images on is having some issues so i'll have to try and make other arrangements.

We were also able to finally build the permanent stairs from the riser down to the floor. I'm going to be blatantly stealing Moggie's stair nosing construction  and putting a stained strip of ash along the edge of the riser, each step and along the stage. Under the nosing above each step we are going to route a small gap to install a ropelight which will server as step lights to illuminate the step treads.

We drilled a few holes in the steps as well as left a couple holes in the side so we can snake a rope light in and out.

I'll try to get the pics up in the next day or two!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> I was entertaining the idea of putting it behind the screen wall (as high as possible) and building a duct to the screen wall and then putting a grill in above the screen. Probably more trouble than it's worth and the grill would probably detract from the look of the room.


FWIW, there's a guy in my area with a very high end system (JBL Synthesis / Harman) that has such a grill mounted above the screen (don't recall whether it was tied into the central air or a separate unit), I didn't find it at all distracting.


----------



## raZorTT

My dad's aircon guy came around yesterday to have a chat about what we can do in the room.

The simple and cheapest option will be to install a split system on one of the external walls. So he'll get back to me on a price for a 5kw system. He said a normal room of that size would probably be fine with a 4kw but we figured with the equiptment, potential number of poeple and westerly aspect on a large external wall it would be safer to put something slightly bigger in. 

I'm more than likely going to stick it in the back corner so it's not quite as obvious. It will also mean the outside unit can be hidden under a little porch 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof, you might know the answer to this question. 

Is there a way on the forum I can quickly edit all the IP addresses I have used to host my images with? I'm moving then to another server, but it will have a different IP adderss.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

PM sent..


----------



## fitzwaddle

Might want to consider setting up a dyndns account so you can use named references to your files, and if/when your IP changes next time, you won't need to change any links. Doesn't help this time though.


----------



## raZorTT

yeah that would work :T. I have a couple domains that I can use, I just didn't have them setup when I first started posting and I kept copying and pasting links from old posts into new ones. My own fault 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

sorry guys, just wanting to test the HTS gallery to see if it will meet my needs


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> I'm going to be blatantly stealing Moggie's stair nosing construction  and putting a stained strip of ash along the edge of the riser, each step and along the stage. Under the nosing above each step we are going to route a small gap to install a ropelight which will server as step lights to illuminate the step treads.


Oh, I see. Steal AND make it better :boxer:


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Oh, I see. Steal AND make it better :boxer:


That's the theory . Whether or not it pans out only time will tell


----------



## raZorTT

OK I've put a few new photos up on the HTS image gallery. Here are a few pics of the stuff we've been working on the past week or two.

Rope light power cable
Framed up nearly done
Closer pic
Rope light installed

I'm expecting a delivery of ash tomorrow or Friday (if it stops raining!) so I will be able to get it stained and ready to install around the floor. It will be the same deep mahogany that I used on the light trays.

Speaking of light trays, here are a couple pics of the light trays with rope light installed 

Side and corner light tray
Rope light installed!
Rope light closeup

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Rope light looking good Simon! :T


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Rope light looking good Simon! :T


Thanks :T

Best thing about using the ropelight instead of LED strips or similar is that the GE can control and dim it without any extra modules . So far I like it at about 30%. I turned it up for the photos 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

If you have your rope light on with the star ceiling illuminated, isn't that going to wash out the perimeter of the star ceiling?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> If you have your rope light on with the star ceiling illuminated, isn't that going to wash out the perimeter of the star ceiling?


It probably would if the rope light was up at the 100% level like it was in the close up I took. At 30%, which is where I prefer it you can't see any red on the velvet. There is only enough light to make the side of the light tray red. :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Thanks :T
> 
> Best thing about using the ropelight instead of LED strips or similar is that the GE can control and dim it without any extra modules . So far I like it at about 30%. I turned it up for the photos
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


I'm with you there, I used all 120v stuff, no LED, for that reason - didn't want to have to deal with the transformers and potential for inability to dim due to insufficient load.


----------



## raZorTT

Spent this evening squeegeeing water out of the garage . Big storm hit our suburb while I was at work and flooded the garage. Thankfully the house and everything else is fine.

Just missed my stacks of timber reserved for fabric panels. Glad now I stacked them up on blocks!

It did destroy a roll of carpet I had that I was thinking about installing in the theatre. I guess it's fate telling me to get the feltex antiquity . 

Have I put up a picture of the carpet sample I am thinking about?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Just opened up the mail to see customs is holding my replacement grafik eye ransom.

Have to give UPS a call tomorrow to give them some more information before customs will release it.

Another two thumbs up for Lutron :T :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Have I put up a picture of the carpet sample I am thinking about?


I don't remember seeing it yet


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> I don't remember seeing it yet


I'll take a photo after work and post it up


----------



## raZorTT

Sorry guys but I have to vent a little 

I called UPS today and the replacement GE was being held by customs because they wanted the goods value confirmed. So I sent my original quote and the transcript of my conversation with tech support. The UPS agent called me while I was getting everything together saying that UPS America has a note on the system to send it back to Lutron.

I called Lutron up and unfortunately just missed the main business hours, so the people in the know had already gone home. Thankfully the support guy was very helpful (really impressed with Lutron) and he is going to follow it up first thing in the morning.

Apparently Lutron will have to get UPS America to update the instruction otherwise Customs will stick it in the outgoing mail box and it'll be sent back to the USA. 

What a pain!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Bleh that sucks - glad I don't have to deal with customs too often


----------



## Prof.

What a pain indeed! You've had to wait all this time for it to arrive and now you have to go through the whole process again!!? :unbelievable: :hissyfit:


----------



## raZorTT

I got an email this morning from UPS stating that Lutron have forwarded an invoice and instructions not to return the GE to them. So fingers crossed the right people see the updated info in time to stop it being sent back to the US.

I have sent an email to the agent in Sydney to bring it to her attention. Hopefully she can call customs and get it all sorted! :T


----------



## raZorTT

Nothing much is happening on the theatre this weekend 

I promised to post a picture of the carpet sample that is leading the race. Here it is!

It's a burgundy colour with two different size gold diamonds repeating through. It's pretty similar to the colour of the GOM, if anything it is slightly darker. The photos are too red. My pics either come out too pink or too red. :hissyfit:

I was/am a little worried that I will be making the room too red/burgundy. At this stage the top 2/3 of the wall will be burgundy and the bottom 1/3 will be black. I had a chat to an interior design friend of mine and he thought it would be fine especially seeing as it's a home theatre and i'll more than likely be filling half the floor space with black recliners.

With the black ceiling, black screen wall and probably black recliners I think the room would end up 1/2 black and 1/2 burgundy.

Carpet sample 
Colour scheme

The carpet is made by a company called Feltex from New Zealand. It's from their antiquity line. 

Here is a link to their website, Feltex

I kind of like a few from their other lines as well, the insitu for example, but they are a bit more modern that the antiquity line (who'd have thought  ) . They might even be a bit distracting when watching a movie.

What do you guys think?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Looks a bit bright in that lighting, but I bet that lighting is far brighter than will be typical in your room.

I'm no help, I have a hard time with carpet - I haven't picked mine yet, but I know I will agonize over it as well. Plus I lean heavily towards earth tones, so reds that appeal to most don't appeal to me as much.


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Looks a bit bright in that lighting, but I bet that lighting is far brighter than will be typical in your room.
> 
> I'm no help, I have a hard time with carpet - I haven't picked mind yet, but I know I will agonize over it as well. Plus I lean heavily towards earth tones, so reds that appeal to most don't appeal to me as much.


Yeah I'm the same, the rest of our house is off white and earthy browns. I wanted something dark though in the theatre. The one colour my designer friend suggested was a chocolate, but I like the idea of having some sort of pattern on it and haven't seen any dark brown/chocolate with patterns 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Apart from the black ceiling and screen wall..am I correct in thinking that your walls will be Burgundy GOM with black columns?
If that's the case, I would not have a Burgundy carpet as well..
I would personally go for a darker colour (not reddish tones) like a dark patterned greyish tone..something like the Arlington Cross pattern, although that seems to have a greenish tinge to it..


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, one advantage you have over the US is in carpet selection. All the good carpets (wool) come from New Zealand!! Unless you are a professional at photography it seems it is really hard to capture true colors so asking opinion is always difficult. Personally I don't have a problem with the burgundy. I've noticed that the initial shock value diminishes over time, so bold colors seem to look less bold over time. Anyway a dedicated HT is not like the rest of your house, it's suppose to stand out.

Sorry to hear about the flood.


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> Apart from the black ceiling and screen wall..am I correct in thinking that your walls will be Burgundy GOM with black columns?
> If that's the case, I would not have a Burgundy carpet as well..
> I would personally go for a darker colour (not reddish tones) like a dark patterned greyish tone..something like the Arlington Cross pattern, although that seems to have a greenish tinge to it..



Hey Prof.

Just about, along the bottom 1/3 of the walls will be black. 

Walls 

That sketchup model is pretty close, the black will actually come higher up the wall than in this pic.

Originally I was keen to go with the antiquity napolean because I thought it was black (dark monitor  ), but then when I was a sample realised it was navy 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, one advantage you have over the US is in carpet selection. All the good carpets (wool) come from New Zealand!! Unless you are a professional at photography it seems it is really hard to capture true colors so asking opinion is always difficult. Personally I don't have a problem with the burgundy. I've noticed that the initial shock value diminishes over time, so bold colors seem to look less bold over time. Anyway a dedicated HT is not like the rest of your house, it's suppose to stand out.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the flood.


Thanks Moggie :T

Thats also my downfall, yet another area where I have too many options and can't make a decision 

:T :T

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Carpet choice and availability is very limited here..Even if you see something you like in a photo or magazine, you'll be very lucky if you can find it here..particularly those specialty patterned carpets you see in US theaters.
Importation also (if you can find a company that will do that) would be very expensive on top of the cost of the carpet..
You might need to ask around on DTV if anyone's found a source for these types of carpets..

I hope you find something suitable..


----------



## raZorTT

Thought you guys might be interested in a few recent purchases 

I'm currently waiting the arrival of my anamorphic lens. It's the new one designed by an Austrailian (aussie bob on AVS). The specs are WAAAAAY over my head  but it'll provide the stretching magic for my scope movies 

CrystalMorphic 5E
AVS thread - CrystalMorphic 5E

I have also ordered a 130" scope screen from oztheatrescreens. It's the majestic scope screen framed with black fidelio velvet and I'm getting it with their new accoustically transparent fabric. I've ordered it but didn't want it delivered straight away so should get it first or second week of January, which is hopefully right around when I'm planning to get the carpet installed


----------



## raZorTT

Oh and I think there might finally be progress getting my new GE from customs and UPS.

A week had passed since I got the email from UPS America saying don't return the unit to Lutron, so I called the woman I had spoken to at UPS OZ and they didn't have any updated instructions or know what was going on. In the end I had to send them the email that I had gotten from UPS saying don't return the unit to Lutron. :dumbcrazy:

I think I got an email from them saying that the unit had been released for delivery, so with a little luck i'll have a delivery slip in my letterbox either today or Monday next week.

I'm sure now they'll deliver it to the wrong house 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Oh and I think there might finally be progress getting my new GE from customs and UPS.
> 
> A week had passed since I got the email from UPS America saying don't return the unit to Lutron, so I called the woman I had spoken to at UPS OZ and they didn't have any updated instructions or know what was going on. In the end I had to send them the email that I had gotten from UPS saying don't return the unit to Lutron. :dumbcrazy:
> 
> I think I got an email from them saying that the unit had been released for delivery, so with a little luck i'll have a delivery slip in my letterbox either today or Monday next week.
> 
> I'm sure now they'll deliver it to the wrong house
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


That's good to hear..Lets hope they don't drop it at the wrong house! :whistling:



raZorTT said:


> Thought you guys might be interested in a few recent purchases
> 
> I'm currently waiting the arrival of my anamorphic lens. It's the new one designed by an Austrailian (aussie bob on AVS). The specs are WAAAAAY over my head  but it'll provide the stretching magic for my scope movies
> 
> CrystalMorphic 5E
> AVS thread - CrystalMorphic 5E
> 
> I have also ordered a 130" scope screen from oztheatrescreens. It's the majestic scope screen framed with black fidelio velvet and I'm getting it with their new accoustically transparent fabric. I've ordered it but didn't want it delivered straight away so should get it first or second week of January, which is hopefully right around when I'm planning to get the carpet installed


Hey Simon,

Very nice choice on the lens and screen! :T
I believe that the lens not only looks similar to an Isco, but produces a similar quality image..

Oz's AT screens have a good reputation as a quality product and with excellent service..
I'm sure you'll be very happy with both..:T

OT..I'm actually looking into an AT screen myself at the moment, but Oz's screens are way outside my budget!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Very nice choice on the lens and screen! :T
> I believe that the lens not only looks similar to an Isco, but produces a similar quality image..
> 
> Oz's AT screens have a good reputation as a quality product and with excellent service..
> I'm sure you'll be very happy with both..:T
> 
> OT..I'm actually looking into an AT screen myself at the moment, but Oz's screens are way outside my budget!


Thanks Prof :T

I'm very excited to see the lens! It looks like a brilliantly engineered product!

I've been thrilled with Rich's service and support from OZTS. He's always replied to my dumb questions which is a feat in itself considering I first contacted him 2 years ago and said I think i'll be putting an order in in a month or two  :clap:

Rich sells the fabric seperately if that makes it more viable? Are you looking into fabric from OS? Maybe Moggie can point you in the right direction for some fabric. He's in the middle of building a screen as we speak! Moggie? :help:

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I've been thrilled with Rich's service and support from OZTS. He's always replied to my dumb questions which is a feat in itself considering I first contacted him 2 years ago and said I think i'll be putting an order in in a month or two  :clap:


LOL!..That's about when I first started making my inquiries into an AT screen! 



> Rich sells the fabric seperately if that makes it more viable? Are you looking into fabric from OS? Maybe Moggie can point you in the right direction for some fabric. He's in the middle of building a screen as we speak! Moggie? :help:


Yes it's the fabric I'm after, but OTZ is very expensive compared to AVSeymour..They have recently joined with
Screen Excellence who have a 4K.AT material! for about $20.00/foot!!..
The 4K material has the smallest holes possible in any AT material that you can get and is used in theatres that are running 4K DLP projectors!
The great advantage for me is that I can sit as close as 8' from a 120" screen and still not see any holes or texture of the surface..
The biggest problem is shipping! It will cost almost as much as the screen material to ship to Australia!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Yes it's the fabric I'm after, but OTZ is very expensive compared to AVSeymour..They have recently joined with
> Screen Excellence who have a 4K.AT material! for about $20.00/foot!!..
> The 4K material has the smallest holes possible in any AT material that you can get and is used in theatres that are running 4K DLP projectors!
> The great advantage for me is that I can sit as close as 8' from a 120" screen and still not see any holes or texture of the surface..
> The biggest problem is shipping! It will cost almost as much as the screen material to ship to Australia!!


Rich is going to build my screen using the 4k material :T

Sounds like it might be the same stuff as OZTS. I think it's also the same as SmX as well.

You should maybe try and get some guys from DTV invlolved in a GB, I wouldn't imagine shipping 15 or 20 metres would cost much more than 4 or 5 for yourself. Seeing as it's really about the volume at that size. Might be a way to cut your shipping significantly.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> They have recently joined with
> Screen Excellence who have a 4K.AT material! for about $20.00/foot


Are you sure the 4K material is available for DIY? I thought only the CenterStage XD material was.

(at least as of July this year - quoting from "the other place"):



chriscmore said:


> the 4k material won't be offered as DIY. It's hard to work with and doesn't lend itself to traditional DIY techniques.


----------



## moggieuk

Hi Simon, I'm really interested in the anamorphic lens you purchased. It is one of two that I'm looking at. The other is the yet to be announced Prismasonic cylindrical (suppose to be available in Jan). Perhaps you can post your thoughts when you receive it. BTW I'm getting worried now that you are going to beat me to watching movies...

As pointed out, I'm using the Seymour CenterStage XD fabric. I don't imagine 4k in my near future so this seemed like the sensible choice. It also has a slightly higher gain and better AT than the 4k materials. I've yet to see a projected image on it, but the weave is quite fine and I cannot make it out in bright light at greater that 8'. Chris at Seymour is extremely responsive and it's great that he actively helps DIYers. Perhaps someone can set me straight, but aren't the 4k fabrics more cloth like and difficult to clean vs. the stiff shade like material of the XD?


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Hi Simon, I'm really interested in the anamorphic lens you purchased. It is one of two that I'm looking at. The other is the yet to be announced Prismasonic cylindrical (suppose to be available in Jan). Perhaps you can post your thoughts when you receive it. BTW I'm getting worried now that you are going to beat me to watching movies...
> 
> As pointed out, I'm using the Seymour CenterStage XD fabric. I don't imagine 4k in my near future so this seemed like the sensible choice. It also has a slightly higher gain and better AT than the 4k materials. I've yet to see a projected image on it, but the weave is quite fine and I cannot make it out in bright light at greater that 8'. Chris at Seymour is extremely responsive and it's great that he actively helps DIYers. Perhaps someone can set me straight, but aren't the 4k fabrics more cloth like and difficult to clean vs. the stiff shade like material of the XD?


Hey Moggie,

I don't think there's any danger of me finishing first . 

Well it looks like they tried to deliver the lens yesterday :T, but my wife had gone out to the shops when they tried :foottap: so I'll be heading out to the depot to pick it up on Monday. I'd be on my way there now if they were open on Saturdays :hissyfit: Not quite sure how they expect people that work from 9-5 to be able to pick things up when they don't open on Saturday mornings 

That's a good point about the 4k material, I don't really see a 4k projector in my future, but from what Rich described to me was it was pretty much the same material just with smaller perforations. He said the holes were smaller but the concentration was larger so the amount of open area was the same as the normal AT material? Not sure whether or not that would make it harder to clean? I'll definitely check with him on the gain though. I couldn't see any holes in his "normal" AT material from around 2m, but I can see how it might benefit Prof if he's sitting pretty close.

Moggie, what projector are you leaning towards? I think i'll probably be getting either the new JVC X3 or maaaaybe stretching the budget to get the X7, but i'm waiting for a few more real world reviews to decide if the extra money is worth while.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Rich is going to build my screen using the 4k material :T
> 
> Sounds like it might be the same stuff as OZTS. I think it's also the same as SmX as well.
> 
> You should maybe try and get some guys from DTV invlolved in a GB, I wouldn't imagine shipping 15 or 20 metres would cost much more than 4 or 5 for yourself. Seeing as it's really about the volume at that size. Might be a way to cut your shipping significantly.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Hey Simon,

That's a good idea of the GB. It would certainly reduce shipping if I can get a few others interested..:T
At the moment I'm waiting on a sample of the Center Stage XD material from Chris..
If I can see the holes from my viewing distance, I'll have to go with the 4K material..
I prefer the XD because it does have a higher gain than the 4K..


----------



## Prof.

fitzwaddle said:


> Are you sure the 4K material is available for DIY? I thought only the CenterStage XD material was.
> 
> (at least as of July this year - quoting from "the other place"):


Yes it is available for the DIYer..I don't think they have it listed as yet, but Chris has quoted me for an angle cut piece of the 4K fabric..


----------



## Prof.

moggieuk said:


> As pointed out, I'm using the Seymour CenterStage XD fabric. I don't imagine 4k in my near future so this seemed like the sensible choice. It also has a slightly higher gain and better AT than the 4k materials. I've yet to see a projected image on it, but the weave is quite fine and I cannot make it out in bright light at greater that 8'. Chris at Seymour is extremely responsive and it's great that he actively helps DIYers. Perhaps someone can set me straight, but aren't the 4k fabrics more cloth like and difficult to clean vs. the stiff shade like material of the XD?


From what I understand, the 4K material is not a weave like the other materials, which is one of the reasons why you can sit much closer without seeing any texture..
I would have thought that a weaved material would be harder to clean than a smoother surface! :scratch:
The XD fabric has a 1.2 gain and the 4K is 0.85 gain..I PM'd a guy from another forum who has had both types of the material, and according to him he couldn't tell much difference in brightness between the two fabrics, but the 4K gave a better quality image overall..


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Moggie, what projector are you leaning towards? I think i'll probably be getting either the new JVC X3 or maaaaybe stretching the budget to get the X7, but i'm waiting for a few more real world reviews to decide if the extra money is worth while.


Well I pre-ordered the RS50 (X7) from AVS because the price was good, but I've since asked if I can downgrade to the RS40 (X3). What I really wanted was a brighter RS20 and that's precisely what these projectors appear to be (I'm not interested in 3D). The reason for the RS50 was for CMS but the initial reviews of the RS40 seem to suggest that the 'natural/rec.709' mode is close enough. I asked myself if I was going to pay for calibration to get that last 5% and decided that I wouldn't, hence the RS40 seems more appropriate. Anyway in a few years there will be some nice laser projectors to choose from.


----------



## moggieuk

Prof. said:


> From what I understand, the 4K material is not a weave like the other materials, which is one of the reasons why you can sit much closer without seeing any texture..
> I would have thought that a weaved material would be harder to clean than a smoother surface! :scratch:
> The XD fabric has a 1.2 gain and the 4K is 0.85 gain..I PM'd a guy from another forum who has had both types of the material, and according to him he couldn't tell much difference in brightness between the two fabrics, but the 4K gave a better quality image overall..


To be honest I was thinking of the SMX 4k fabric which is quite different and in their words 'not cleanable'. The Seymour fabric may be different. WRT the gain, I found independent test report that measured the XD at closer to 1.0 gain (not a criticism since it appears all vendors tend to exaggerate by 20%). If the 4k measures less than 0.85 gain I wouldn't be able to get a bright enough image on my 11' wide CIH screen. How large a screen are you building? With a 8' seating distance I'm guessing a bit smaller.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Well I pre-ordered the RS50 (X7) from AVS because the price was good, but I've since asked if I can downgrade to the RS40 (X3). What I really wanted was a brighter RS20 and that's precisely what these projectors appear to be (I'm not interested in 3D). The reason for the RS50 was for CMS but the initial reviews of the RS40 seem to suggest that the 'natural/rec.709' mode is close enough. I asked myself if I was going to pay for calibration to get that last 5% and decided that I wouldn't, hence the RS40 seems more appropriate. Anyway in a few years there will be some nice laser projectors to choose from.


Do you have any links for reviews? Or has most of the info come from discussions on the various forums?


----------



## raZorTT

Got some more work done on the theatre today :T

Dad was able to finish up the plastering on the underside of the soffit, so I will be able to paint that during the week 

While he was working on that I was outside sanding the pieces of Ash that were delivered last week to be used as trim around the room and also for the nosing on the stage, riser and steps.

While waiting for a coat of plaster to dry we ripped one of the pieces of ash into 3 so we could glue and screw them to the bottom of a full pieces for the nosing.

Glued and screwed 
Three pieces drying 

Hopefully i'll get the chance tomorrow to run the router with the bullnose bit over the pieces  I'll post some more pics if I do :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

moggieuk said:


> To be honest I was thinking of the SMX 4k fabric which is quite different and in their words 'not cleanable'. The Seymour fabric may be different.


I certainly hope that's the case as I will need to clean it fairly regularly..
My screen is right next to the theatre entrance, which is off from the kitchen, and smoke and cooking fumes seem to find their way onto my screen surface! 
I'll have to check with Chris on the cleaning situation..
The SMX material would definitely not be suitable..I didn't think they sold the fabric separately?



> WRT the gain, I found independent test report that measured the XD at closer to 1.0 gain (not a criticism since it appears all vendors tend to exaggerate by 20%). If the 4k measures less than 0.85 gain I wouldn't be able to get a bright enough image on my 11' wide CIH screen. How large a screen are you building? With a 8' seating distance I'm guessing a bit smaller.


Hopefully the 4K material is closer to it's advertised gain..That would explain why the guy who has both types couldn't see much difference between the two types..


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Do you have any links for reviews? Or has most of the info come from discussions on the various forums?


Mainly from the forum discussions and from some of the press folks who posted their thoughts on pre-release models. I guess I could still go either way but I'm tending towards the RS40.

Your ash nosing is going to be a nice touch.



Prof. said:


> I certainly hope that's the case as I will need to clean it fairly regularly..
> My screen is right next to the theatre entrance, which is off from the kitchen, and smoke and cooking fumes seem to find their way onto my screen surface!
> I'll have to check with Chris on the cleaning situation..
> The SMX material would definitely not be suitable..I didn't think they sold the fabric separately?
> Hopefully the 4K material is closer to it's advertised gain..That would explain why the guy who has both types couldn't see much difference between the two types..


AFAIK SMX doesn't sell the material separately other than replacement to existing customers. I just assumed that there was similarities between SMX and SeymourAV 4k but it does sound like they are different. Bummer about the kitchen fumes. I think I'd be tempted to figure out some kind of dust cover similar to those used to cover pool tables.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Mainly from the forum discussions and from some of the press folks who posted their thoughts on pre-release models. I guess I could still go either way but I'm tending towards the RS40.
> 
> Your ash nosing is going to be a nice touch.


Thanks Moggie 



> AFAIK SMX doesn't sell the material separately other than replacement to existing customers. I just assumed that there was similarities between SMX and SeymourAV 4k but it does sound like they are different. Bummer about the kitchen fumes. I think I'd be tempted to figure out some kind of dust cover similar to those used to cover pool tables.


Looks like prof is going to have to make a fully automated masking system that closes completely to protect his screen :T :T


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Looks like prof is going to have to make a fully automated masking system that closes completely to protect his screen :T :T





> I think I'd be tempted to figure out some kind of dust cover similar to those used to cover pool tables.


That's not a bad idea! I have been tossing around the idea of putting up remote control motorized curtains as a masking system for awhile, but the total cost (including some nice quality curtains) was a bit prohibitive for me at the moment, along with the new screen material as well..
Just covering the screen with a bed sheet would probably suffice for the time being..

One other thing that concerns me with the cleaning of these AT materials is that with the material stretched over a frame, you can't really put much pressure on the screen when your cleaning it or it may tend to loose it's stretch..:thumbsdown:
I'll have to see what this fabric looks like before making any final decisions..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> That's not a bad idea! I have been tossing around the idea of putting up remote control motorized curtains as a masking system for awhile, but the total cost (including some nice quality curtains) was a bit prohibitive for me at the moment, along with the new screen material as well..
> Just covering the screen with a bed sheet would probably suffice for the time being..
> 
> One other thing that concerns me with the cleaning of these AT materials is that with the material stretched over a frame, you can't really put much pressure on the screen when your cleaning it or it may tend to loose it's stretch..:thumbsdown:
> I'll have to see what this fabric looks like before making any final decisions..


I guess you could pull it down to clean? Or alternatively re-stretch it over the frame. That could be a bit difficult if all the material is trimmed :scratch:

I picked up my anamorphic lens this morning  :T

It's just as impressive in the flesh as it is in the pictures! It is really really well built. Pretty heavy too. about 7-8kg at a guess. I'll snap some pics when I get home!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

My anamorphic lens weighs 7Kg.also and if you're ceiling mounting the projector you'll need quite a sturdy mount for the lens as well!.


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> My anamorphic lens weighs 7Kg.also and if you're ceiling mounting the projector you'll need quite a sturdy mount for the lens as well!.


Hey Prof.

Do you have any pics of how you have mounted things?

I'm not sure what i'll do at this stage.

Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yes..I have some in one of my photo albums..I'll check it out..
Your mounting requirements might be a bit different from mine as I'm using one of CAVX's prismatic lenses..and I just have a single column mount, with a slider for the lens..


----------



## moggieuk

Prof. said:


> That's not a bad idea! I have been tossing around the idea of putting up remote control motorized curtains as a masking system for awhile, but the total cost (including some nice quality curtains) was a bit prohibitive for me at the moment, along with the new screen material as well..
> Just covering the screen with a bed sheet would probably suffice for the time being..
> 
> One other thing that concerns me with the cleaning of these AT materials is that with the material stretched over a frame, you can't really put much pressure on the screen when your cleaning it or it may tend to loose it's stretch..:thumbsdown:
> I'll have to see what this fabric looks like before making any final decisions..


Simon, I hope you don't mind the thread detour!

Prof, I've just fitted my Seymour XD cloth over my screen frame. Although because of my curve I'm not using exactly the same approach as Seymour, but I did fit brass grommets around the edge and silicon o-rings stretched through the grommet to attach the fabric. This creates a self-tightening trampoline that is aptly demonstrated here. My experience of the XD fabric is that it has a memory and wants to return to its original shape. Case in point: I ironed a crease around the edge in preparation for fitting grommets. The next day when I went to fit the grommets the crease was almost gone. I can't imagine the pressure of cleaning would stretch the fabric when using this approach.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, I hope you don't mind the thread detour!


Not at all! 



> Prof, I've just fitted my Seymour XD cloth over my screen frame. Although because of my curve I'm not using exactly the same approach as Seymour, but I did fit brass grommets around the edge and silicon o-rings stretched through the grommet to attach the fabric. This creates a self-tightening trampoline that is aptly demonstrated here. My experience of the XD fabric is that it has a memory and wants to return to its original shape. Case in point: I ironed a crease around the edge in preparation for fitting grommets. The next day when I went to fit the grommets the crease was almost gone. I can't imagine the pressure of cleaning would stretch the fabric when using this approach.


That's impressive! After seeing that and your experience cleaning shouldn't be a problem.

I like the self tightening idea. How do you get that to work on a curved screen?? Do the majority of the attachment points go along the horizontal edge?

Cheers,
Simon


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## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> I like the self tightening idea. How do you get that to work on a curved screen?? Do the majority of the attachment points go along the horizontal edge?


Pics soon!


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Pics soon!


Excellent :T


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## Prof.

moggieuk said:


> Prof, I've just fitted my Seymour XD cloth over my screen frame. Although because of my curve I'm not using exactly the same approach as Seymour, but I did fit brass grommets around the edge and silicon o-rings stretched through the grommet to attach the fabric. This creates a self-tightening trampoline that is aptly demonstrated here. My experience of the XD fabric is that it has a memory and wants to return to its original shape. Case in point: I ironed a crease around the edge in preparation for fitting grommets. The next day when I went to fit the grommets the crease was almost gone. I can't imagine the pressure of cleaning would stretch the fabric when using this approach.


Thanks Moggie..I have seen that system of suspension and had considered using it at one stage, but it does present a couple of problems..
Firstly you have to use a very strong frame to suspend the fabric, otherwise you can get flexing in the frame..
The one's I've seen have all been made using aluminium extrusion for the rigidity and I don't have access to suitable extrusions..
To use timber for the frame would require quite wide planks to give sufficient strength..That's not a problem, but then to cover the suspension system and the timber frame with the border, requires having very wide borders..I don't like wide borders on a screen and I would be looking at something like a 5" wide border to cover everything!
That's why i decided to just stretch and staple the material to a timber frame..
From what you've said about it returning to it's original stretch sounds like cleaning shouldn't be a problem!


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

Here's a couple of shots (not very good I'm afraid) of my mounting system for the lens..
You can just make out the slide at the top of the photo..As you can see it's quite short!..The reason for that is that I only use the slide for removing the lens for cleaning..
The lens remains in place for all AR's..










This one shows a bit more of the mounting..The centre column is a piece of 50x50 Pine with mounting plates top and bottom..Like this "I"










The black cloth on the face of the projector is that Fidelio velvet sample you sent me!..It works great at eliminating reflections from the white projector face into the back prism..:T


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## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> The black cloth on the face of the projector is that Fidelio velvet sample you sent me!..It works great at eliminating reflections from the white projector face into the back prism..:T


Hey Prof thanks for the pics :T

Do you watch 16:9 material stretched or do you adjust the image using the projector to end up with a 16:9 image? I'm wondering if some sort of lens slide made using a couple of soft close blum drawer runners would be worth while. I'm not sure if I going to want to move the lens in and out of position at this stage seeing as I've never run a scope setup.

OZTS are going to be bringing the motorised cineslide to Oz, but at $3k I have other priorities.

Nice work on using the fidelio velvet to eliminate the reflected glare :T :T

I still have to get off my backside and work out how much velvet is left on my roll. Did you still need some?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Has anyone had any experience or heard peoples thoughts on the Bridgestone Airstep Premier pad carpet underlay?

It's a rag underlay (as opposed to most of the airstep which is rubber) and it's 14.5mm thick so must be considered pretty plush. I know that David from Wavetrain in Australia recommends it for HT use. 

Airstep specifications

I'm either going to book in my carpet install today or tomorrow but am undecided on which underlay to go with. Price will be a factor, but most people have said buy the best underlay you can afford.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Do you watch 16:9 material stretched or do you adjust the image using the projector to end up with a 16:9 image? I'm wondering if some sort of lens slide made using a couple of soft close blum drawer runners would be worth while. I'm not sure if I going to want to move the lens in and out of position at this stage seeing as I've never run a scope setup.


When you see your first 2.35 scope image filling the whole screen, you'll never want to watch 16:9 again! 
At least that's how I felt (as have many others) and I've never watched a movie since in the 16:9 AR..
Even if some heads get a bit chopped off occasionally in some movies, you'll overlook that to get the scope image...and when you see movies like Avatar in scope, it's just breath taking!!




> I still have to get off my backside and work out how much velvet is left on my roll. Did you still need some?


When I make my new screen I would very much like to make some Fidelio velvet covered borders. :T


----------



## raZorTT

As promised here are a few pics of the crystalMorphic lens :T

It came well packed, the lens is surrounded by thick pieces of grey foam.

Packaging 

I knew how heavy it was going to be, but it was still sort of a surprise when I pulled it out of the box. I keep thinking of the Russian in the movie Snatch. "Heavy means reliable" 

I'm very impressed with the build quality of the lens. Aussie bob has done a brilliant job!

The lens has a cap on each end to keep the glass safe during shipping.

Unpacked cap removed 

You need a small allen key to loosen the bolts to tilt or slide the lens up and down it's uprights.

Ready to go! 

I just wish I had a screen and projector to stick it in front of :foottap:

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

That'll make you speed things along!! :rofl:
Very nice looking lens..:T:T


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof :T

I've got the carpet guys coming round tomorrow to measure up the room :T. Hopefully installation will be the first or second week of Jan.

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

Do you have all your equipment (apart from the projector and screen) at this stage?


----------



## raZorTT

Yep pretty much. Until upgradeitis kicks in anyway 

I have a yamaha Z7 as my reciever. It does a pretty good job even with the testing I've done in the room. I might look at some seperates down the track, but the CC will need a little while to recover 

It looks like i'll be able to pick up the Lutron from the depot this afternoon! I've had the worst time with customs and UPS! Has taken over 3 weeks to get things cleared, and it has only happened cause i've chased and held their hands to get it through! :rolleyesno:

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I have a yamaha Z7 as my reciever. It does a pretty good job even with the testing I've done in the room.


My last Receiver was a Yammy but I've now gone over to Pioneer..I love the MCACC equalizer for all the control it gives you with sound and acoustic control.. 



> It looks like i'll be able to pick up the Lutron from the depot this afternoon! I've had the worst time with customs and UPS! Has taken over 3 weeks to get things cleared, and it has only happened cause i've chased and held their hands to get it through! :rolleyesno:


That's great news about the Lutron, but would you believe I have to wait newly 3weeks for delivery, every time I buy a blu-ray from Amazon.com!..and that doesn't even go through customs!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> My last Receiver was a Yammy but I've now gone over to Pioneer..I love the MCACC equalizer for all the control it gives you with sound and acoustic control..


Hmm that's interesting. I've seen lots of people using Integra, which is Onkyo isn't it? What sort of things are you able to do on the pioneer?



> That's great news about the Lutron, but would you believe I have to wait newly 3weeks for delivery, every time I buy a blu-ray from Amazon.com!..and that doesn't even go through customs!!


How hopeless are amazon.com :boxer:. 3 weeks is a good effort for the stuff I have ordered in the past. Amazon.co.uk is soooo much faster and all their blurays are the right region


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Hmm that's interesting. I've seen lots of people using Integra, which is Onkyo isn't it? What sort of things are you able to do on the pioneer?


The Pioneer MCACC gives you three ways to calibrate..Fully automatic..Auto and Manual..

Full Auto.. calibrates everything and it's all set up without any further adjustment needed..
Auto...gives you the choice of three types of cailbration for your speakers..which can be stored in memory..and you decide which one sounds best in your room..
Manual...allows you to make individual adjustments to all the audio parameters after you've run Auto..such as..
Speaker level
Speaker distance
Speaker size
THX or non THX
Multi position calibration
Sound delays
And a 8 band equalizer for each speaker..

You can even adjust for room reverberations

When you get into the Manual control, you can make very fine adjustments and store all those settings in memory..There are 6 memories..
Also the Pioneer (to my ears) has a very smooth sound to it (for want of a better description) as others have noted as well..I did straight away notice the difference between the Yamaha and the Pioneer..




> How hopeless are amazon.com :boxer:. 3 weeks is a good effort for the stuff I have ordered in the past. Amazon.co.uk is soooo much faster and all their blurays are the right region


Amazon.co.uk used to be good with delivery time but they also have of late been very slow with their deliveries..
I think with the better dollar value, a lot more people are buying their movies from overseas and delivery time is suffering and with this time of year..well forget it!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> The Pioneer MCACC gives you three ways to calibrate..Fully automatic..Auto and Manual..


The manual mode sounds excellent :T, especially if you can use it to tweak the auto results. I need to become a bit more familiar with the Z7. I know you can change all the distances, sizes and db etc for each speaker, but i'm not sure if it has the ability to allow you to adjust an EQ.

Simon


----------



## Prof.

The YPAO system has never had an EQ..unless they've now added one..
This was the thing that amazed me about the MCACC system..it just gives you so much control over the whole sound system..
I spent months trying different settings, just to see what the Receiver was capable of and there is almost an infinite variety of settings you can make to get the sound just right for your room environment!:T
For me, (and for many others) the only downside of MCACC is that there is no EQ for subwoofer frequencies..
I believe Audysey does give you that control, but not the range of control that MCACC gives..


----------



## raZorTT

Yeah as you say i'm pretty sure it doesn't. I've seen a graph of each speaker's response, but no way of adjusting things.

I's a shame Pioneer didn't provide an EQ for the sub  Do they own Audysey? Probably want you to buy another product to get full control


----------



## Prof.

MCACC and Audysey are two totally different companies..
You can of course buy a separate sub eq..and I have one on my wishlist!


----------



## raZorTT

Just found out the carpet I had finally settled on won't be available until March / April next year 

I will either have to wait another 3 months or pick a different carpet.

They have the merlot available - Merlot sample 
The merlot weave is what I had asked for but isn't available - Merlot Weave sample 

I'm not sure if the merlot would be too busy/distracting with the extra dots.

I did see this as a completely different alternative - Strand Upstage sample 

I knew things were going to well! :rant:

Simon


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## Prof.

What a downer!..:sad:
The Merlot Weave does look the better of the two and I think you're right about the Merlot..It might look like just spots all over the carpet as opposed to a patterned carpet..
Not sure about the other sample..Difficult to tell in a small sample..
There's always something to throw a spanner in the works!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> What a downer!..:sad:
> The Merlot Weave does look the better of the two and I think you're right about the Merlot..It might look like just spots all over the carpet as opposed to a patterned carpet..
> Not sure about the other sample..Difficult to tell in a small sample..
> There's always something to throw a spanner in the works!


What do you think of this mockup? I used an old sketchup model and tried to lay the strand out over the floor.

Strand Upstage Mockup 

I'm cautious to like it, just incase they can't get this one in for a while either 

Cheers,
Simon


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## raZorTT

Here's a mockup of the merlot.

Merlot mockup 

In real life I think the colour is more burgundy than red.

I think I like the stripes better, guess i'll see if they can get it when I go out there this afternoon

Simon


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## raZorTT

And last but not least, the Merlot weave that I was originally going with.

Merlot Weave mockup


----------



## fitzwaddle

Wow, hard choice - I enjoy picking carpet as much as I enjoy shopping for clothes - which is not at all. I don't care for the stripes effect. Of the three, the weave would be my choice, more subdued - but hard to tell since the pattern is probably greatly exaggerated in the SketchUp model, but not be realistic compared to normal lighting in the HT.


----------



## moggieuk

fitzwaddle said:


> I don't care for the stripes effect.


If you would like another opinion then I'd agree with the stripe comment.


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> What do you think of this mockup? I used an old sketchup model and tried to lay the strand out over the floor.
> 
> Strand Upstage Mockup
> 
> I'm cautious to like it, just incase they can't get this one in for a while either
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Looks quite good, but really difficult to tell what it would look like in real life..



raZorTT said:


> Here's a mockup of the merlot.
> 
> Merlot mockup
> 
> In real life I think the colour is more burgundy than red.
> 
> I think I like the stripes better, guess i'll see if they can get it when I go out there this afternoon
> 
> Simon


Does look very spotty as I thought..Not my choice..



raZorTT said:


> And last but not least, the Merlot weave that I was originally going with.
> 
> Merlot Weave mockup


Looks a little better than the previous one..
Over the three choices, I think I'd go for the stripes..but you would really need to get a sample and see how it looks against the other colours..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks guys 

I went and had a chat to the guys at the carpet place and grabbed a sample of a nice black patterned carpet. The also have a brown that I'm considering. They are both feltex carpets, but Strangely the website doesn't have them. 

I'll take a scan of the pages and post them this afternoon 

They also checked their B2B interface foe me and confirmed the supplier had it in stock . 

Cheers
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hey guys

Here's a picture of the black patterned carpet.

It's still a Feltex carpet, and it's called Soltaire tekapo image .

I prefer it to the stripes so it's now leading the race.

If I can make my mind up by first thing Monday morning I should be able to get the guys out on the 11th or 12th of Jan to do the install :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Here's a pic of the black/brown that is probably running second on the list, but only just

Feltex Soltaire Kinloch squares 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Those are both very nice - which do you think fits in better with the rest of your color choices?


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks fitzwaddle :T 

I think the black would be less controversial. But I think brown would still work with the mahogany trim and burgundy gom. 

Cheers
Simon


----------



## Prof.

On my monitor they both look brownish!
I think I would be more inclined towards the larger pattern..if you really want the pattern to be a feature..
Small patterns can look fine in a small sample, but look very muted in the full size carpet..


----------



## raZorTT

It's probably brownish because of my scanner.


----------



## raZorTT

So you'd go the tekapo ?


----------



## raZorTT

Carpet ordered! I went with the soltaire tekapo image . The carpet guys are back from holidays on the 10th of Jan, so hopefully it will be installed on the 10,11 or 12 of Jan. I can't wait :T

Thanks for your thoughts guys!

Cheers
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Generally speaking the darker the better when it comes to carpet..I think you've made the right choice.

This shot of a red and black theatre is using a dark coloured carpet, although it looks a bit lighter in the photo..
http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp356/CollinViegas/Theater/FrontView.jpg

Looking forward to seeing the end result :T


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Generally speaking the darker the better when it comes to carpet..I think you've made the right choice.
> 
> This shot of a red and black theatre is using a dark coloured carpet, although it looks a bit lighter in the photo..
> http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp356/CollinViegas/Theater/FrontView.jpg
> 
> Looking forward to seeing the end result :T


Thanks Prof :T

Wow that's pretty close to what i'm hoping mine will look like  cept with black columns.

We got a little bit done on the weekend.

We biscuited and glued together the ash nosing for the steps and also installed a door inside the theater which i'll be able to attach my GOM panels to. It will hopefully make the door a little more stealth 

I also lined the room with plastic and started to sand off the bulkheads. Hopefully i'll be able to get them painted by xmas. Then after that it's getting the room ready for the carpet! :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hey guys,

I thought you guys might be interested in a review of the CrystalMorphic 5E anamorphic lens I got. Scott Horton from Cineslide did a review of the CrystalMorphic 5E along side the Isco IIIL.

The review has been posted by the CM5E designer on DTV.

CrystalMorphic 5E lens review

I can't wait to get this setup!

Edit: Here's another link. I'm not sure if DTV requires you to sign up. 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon,

Any further progress on the theatre build!?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Any further progress on the theatre build!?


Hey Prof.

Yep i'll have an update for you tomorrow afternoon :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Well it's been a busy couple of weeks but this afternoon I finished getting the theatre ready for the carpet installation that is scheduled for tomorrow morning :T :T

The major things that I wanted to achieve between xmas and the carpet going in was:
-paint the underside of the soffit (get as much painting as possible done so I don't have to use drop sheets)
-get the aircon installed
-stain and oil trims and nosings
-install trims and nosings

The guys came on the 23rd to install the aircon into the theatre and the family/kitchen area. The theatre install took a little while because I wanted a cavity install. The wall outside the theatre is near the entrance to the house, so I didn't want the pipes running down the wall. They did a great job and it gets icy cold in there now 

Next up was getting the soffits done. I grabbed some tinted (grey) undercoat from Bunnings and put two coats on them to get a nice smooth, even cover. I went with 2 coats to make sure that when I painted the black coats, the surface absorption would be even and the black would be consistent. It was a little fiddly because the bottom of the soffit and the light tray are flush, so I had masked along the light tray to try and protect it from my terrible painting skills 

Painted soffit 

That was the only reasonable photo I could get with my little canon ixus. As soon as I point it towards the star ceiling it freaks out and the resulting photos look terrible!

We had built and prepd the trim and nosing a week or two before xmas, but the process of staining and oiling it took a long time:
-I put one coat of Mahogany stain on the pieces and left it for a day to dry
-Next up was satin estapol, two coats applied and two days drying time.
-To finish/protect it I put on 3 coats of Scandinavian teak oil on the trim and 4 coats on the nosing. Each coat was left to dry for 24 hours!

Finally we were ready to install the trim and nosing yesterday  :T

It was a relatively simple process installing all of the trim. We skew nailed through the top and nailed straight in the bottom. With the underlay and carpet the bottom nail holes will be covered. The holes on the top of the ash will be covered by the GOM panels :T. 

Riser trim 
Corner trim 
Column trim 
Stair trim 

When we installed the trim for the stairs we also finalised the installation the stair ropelight. We had to cut a few small notches in the trim so the light could come through and snake its way around and inside the stairs. The notches were hidden as soon as the nosing was installed.

The nosing along the stage, riser and steps was glued and skew nailed from the back, again so when the carpet is installed there won't be any nail holes visible. The riser and step nosing was installed so that there is an 18mm gap underneath. This will give us enough room to install the carpet and then friction fit the ropelight.

Nosing glued and skewed 
Step rope light 
Step lighting 

Am really looking forward to getting the carpet installed tomorrow :T . I spent today cleaning the floor and vaccuming up. I have taken the day off so that I can "supervise" and be available when the undoubtedly have questions for me 

Nearly ready 
Ready for carpet front 
Ready for carpet rear 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

All looking very nice Simon and some good progress..:T
I bet you can't wait to get that carpet down! 
What are you planning to do to cover the side windows?


----------



## raZorTT

quick teaser 

The carpet guy is here and currently putting down the underlay :T

Smooth edge 

More to come  

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> What are you planning to do to cover the side windows?


Hey prof

For the windows i'm going to build a plug out of MDF and framing.

Window plug 

I'll stuff the back with insulation to stop any resonance.
To attach it i'll screw a piece of timber to the inside edges of the window reveal so I can screw through the MDF into it to keep it in place. The end result should be a flush panel that I can then continue sticking insulation, trim and panels over the top of.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

The carpet is done!

I'm very happy with my choice! It looks great with the mahogany trim :T 

The guy did a pretty good job keeping the patterns straight. In must be a tough thing to do considering the amount of stretching that goes on. As expected there was enough carpet left over to do the section behind the screen :T

Here are the pics!

Underlay stage
Underlay front
Underlay riser
Underlay rear
First look at the carpet
Carpet rolled out
Stairs complete
Riser complete
Stage complete
Done! 

I gave it a vacuum and I swear half of the pile is now in the bin 

Am looking forward to it getting dark so I can see how the steps look illuminated 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Looks very classy Simon..:T
I know what you mean about vacuuming up all the carpet pile..It shocked me when I did mine as well..:yikes:


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks prof 

Now to try and keep the momentum 

Cheers
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Carpet looks hawt! I could definitely go for something like that - I wonder if I'll be able to find something locally that won't break the bank. Everything's looking really good Simon, I am jealous!


----------



## SydneyJase

Love the carpet, great choice. :yes:


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Carpet looks hawt! I could definitely go for something like that - I wonder if I'll be able to find something locally that won't break the bank. Everything's looking really good Simon, I am jealous!





SydneyJase said:


> Love the carpet, great choice. :yes:


Thanks guys. I'm thrilled with how it has come out!


----------



## raZorTT

Have had another productive weekend  :T

Before I can start getting really serious about building the wall panels for the room I needed to get the columns finished. I have had the 4 rear columns, that hide the 4 surround speakers, built for a month. So yesterday I wanted to get the front columns built and painted black ready to be covered with GOM. 

The plan is for the front columns be basically the same as the rear ones, but each one will hide two DVD/BD racks. Which will give me about a 400 disc capacity :T

We followed the same basic construction as before. We used MDF for the body and glued and screwed it together with a strip of timber in the corner for some added strength.

We finished building both columns mid afternoon, so that gave me the chance to slap on a coat of black paint. 

Front column painted 

The MDF we have used for the columns is only 12mm thick so a quick trip to bunnings was in order this morning for a new pneumatic stapler and some 8mm staples. For $60 the stapler is worth it's weight in gold!! 

I pulled out my roll of black GOM from the cupboard (it's been sitting in there for quite a while  )and rolled it out on the carpet and got to work. 

First column
Half done
Using lots of staples
Cut out

I managed to get 5 of the 6 finished today :T

First one done 
Rear columns done 
All in place

For the front column I still have to secure the racks and column in place, but I placed all the bits together and took a pic

Front column 

The DVD racks I used are the ones you can get from IKEA. Next weekend we will build a door that will sit on the front of the column. I've got a couple of piano hinges sitting in the garage waiting 

It's slowly coming together :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Here's a quick pic of one of the lower wall panels in place 

Panel in place 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof, 

How much do you think I should tip forward the surrounds? I was thinking just propping the back of the speaker up 4 or 5mm

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon,

very nice job on the columns and it's all starting to look all very nice..:T
Surely that staple gun didn't include a compressor for the price!!? if it did I want one!

That's a very cool idea for the DVD rack..well done! :T

With your surrounds, I've found that the best angle down position is when the speakers are firing about a foot over your head when seated..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> very nice job on the columns and it's all starting to look all very nice..:T
> Surely that staple gun didn't include a compressor for the price!!? if it did I want one!
> 
> That's a very cool idea for the DVD rack..well done! :T
> 
> With your surrounds, I've found that the best angle down position is when the speakers are firing about a foot over your head when seated..


Thanks Prof :T

No I already had my dad's compressor in the garage :whistling:. The stapler I had borrowed from him only shot staples 16-32mm long so it was either buy a new one or do it by hand :dumbcrazy:

Thanks for the speaker tip. I've been reading the surround thread with interest :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Really looking nice! Great job on the columns.

Bryan


----------



## moggieuk

Hi Simon, I haven't had a lot of spare time lately to follow builds but I just managed to catch up with yours. Boy you are flying! I love your choice of carpet.


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Really looking nice! Great job on the columns.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan,

And thanks again for the GOM it's great stuff!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Hi Simon, I haven't had a lot of spare time lately to follow builds but I just managed to catch up with yours. Boy you are flying! I love your choice of carpet.


Thanks Moggie :T 

Just saw your update your masking system is coming along great! Looking forward to seeing it in action!

Got a little bit more done on the room yesterday. We built the two doors that are going to hide the DVD/BD racks. 

Nothing too exciting construction wise, they are made out of pieces of 12mm MDF that we then glued and screwed some 42mm x 19mm timber (on it's side) to give me some room to put some insulation in before I wrap it up in more black GOM :T. I have given one side a coat of black paint. Hopefully i'll get the chance to do the other side this afternoon . I'll take a couple of pics at the same time and put them up.

The last major thing after that will be making the door for the equiptment cupboard. Then I should be able to get cracking on the panels for the walls 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

What fabric / color are you going with for the wall panels?

Columns look great!


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> What fabric / color are you going with for the wall panels?
> 
> Columns look great!


Thanks :T

The bottom 1/3 will be in the same black GOM. The top 2/3 will be covered in deep burgundy. So hopefully the burgundy will tie in with the mahogany trims 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Interesting - I see quite a few builds with something similar, deep red/wine/burgundy, its a nice look, and does go well with the wood I'd think. I almost talked myself into dark wine color, but I'm leaning now towards a dark tan - tan/black with maybe some deep wine highlights, like column sides. Need to sit down and make a model to see how it looks.


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Interesting - I see quite a few builds with something similar, deep red/wine/burgundy, its a nice look, and does go well with the wood I'd think. I almost talked myself into dark wine color, but I'm leaning now towards a dark tan - tan/black with maybe some deep wine highlights, like column sides. Need to sit down and make a model to see how it looks.


Thanks. I think picking the colour scheme was one of, if not, the hardest decision I had to make leading up to the start of construction.

I've seen a couple of tan schemes and I think they look sensational :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Yesterday was a public holiday so I was able to make a bit of progress in the theatre :T

I put up some of the remaining insulation on the walls that I had left off due to having not decided the exact position of doors etc.

I also did some more work on the doors that i'm going to be attaching to the front columns. I had put the 2nd half of the coat of black paint on the night before so they were ready to be fitted with insulation yesterday.

Column door 

I'm 90% done on covering the first door in black GOM. I'm trying to wrap it up so that the two sets of staples that run the length of the door will be hidden under the piano hinge used to attach it to the column.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Looks like you have an overseer!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Looks like you have an overseer!!


Yeah she keeps a close eye on everything I do. My two dogs have been quite put out that they aren't allowed in the theatre now the carpet has gone in 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Good thinking! :T Dog hair is deadly stuff in a theatre..

I board a number of dogs here at different times and when they come into the house I have to make sure that the theatre door is closed at all times!


----------



## raZorTT

Got a little done on the weekend, but my progress was rudely interrupted by a couple of BBQs 

I prepd and stained four more lengths of Ash. They will be for the top of the walls and between the burgandy and black GOM panels. I'll try to get into the garage this afternoon to give them a coat of Satin clear.

I also finished covering the the DVD rack doors with GOM. With a little luck we should be able to get them installed this coming weekend :T

No pictures i'm afraid, it was all pretty boring 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

Well the whole thing is looking absolutely brilliant!


----------



## raZorTT

Dale Rasco said:


> Well the whole thing is looking absolutely brilliant!


Thanks Dale it's getting closer 

Love your new screen and projector  Which projector did you buy?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

Thanks Simon! Since it was my first projector I started off with a beginner unit. The Epson 8350. I like it quite a bit, but see myself upgrading in a year or so. I just didn't want to spend too much on the first one.


----------



## raZorTT

Dale Rasco said:


> Thanks Simon! Since it was my first projector I started off with a beginner unit. The Epson 8350. I like it quite a bit, but see myself upgrading in a year or so. I just didn't want to spend too much on the first one.


Good plan, that's exactly what I did with an older panasonic. I think i'm a couple weeks away from putting my name down for a JVC X3/RS40. I've been told the next batch from JVC will be landing in Australia in about a month.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I got back from a week in Sydney last night and was straight back work this morning 

We worked on attaching the doors to the columns, securing the front columns to the wall and securing the DVD/BD racks inside the columns. 

To keep the door closed I installed an 8kg/pull magnet latch on the bottom of the fixed shelf and the metal tab that grabs on the back of the door.

Here it is closed
Here it is open
Here is the latch 

If you look closely in the first photo you can see a couple pieces of trim that were installed along the top of the wall and in the middle. There is also a frame that I built this afternoon sitting in place waiting for its fabric treatment. 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

Looking good Simon! One day at a time!


----------



## BLUESMAN420

this is my first post as a new member i to plan on building a home theater from new construction i will say that most of the dicussion is a bit overwhelming apparently i have aways to go


----------



## bpape

Welcome to the forum. Please feel free to start your own construction thread. There are a lot of people here that are both knowledgeable and helpful.


----------



## raZorTT

BLUESMAN420 said:


> this is my first post as a new member i to plan on building a home theater from new construction i will say that most of the dicussion is a bit overwhelming apparently i have aways to go


Welcome! You've got to start somewhere :T

As Bryan mentioned there are a lot of really clever cookies here and they're more than willing to share the knowledge. Start up a thread and use it to help you plan. Like most things it's all in the preparation!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Made some more progress this weekend :T

The main objective this weekend was to get the door to cover the equipment cupboard built. Same construction as the doors that we built for the columns. 12mm MDF cut to size then some framing on it's edge glued and screwed. The difference this time round was we added a lot more support braces. The reason being the hinge will be secured to the framing as opposed to the MDF on the column doors.

Glued and screwed 
Quick coat of black

The rebate about 1/3 of the way up the door is for a piece of trim so that it matches with the rest of the wall. I put some insulation in the first 3 sections and set about covering the door with GOM. The top 2/3 is covered with burgundy, the bottom 1/3 with black. The back of the door is covered completely in black GOM.

Lots of staples 
Covered side profile 
Covered front 
Test fit 

In the last pic you can see the door just sitting in place, it fits perfectly  :T. Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to put the hinge on yet.

First burgundy panel 
Second burgundy panel 

You can see some reflection off the silver paper in the photo of the second panel, only because of the flash. You can't see it under normal circumstances.

I'm stoked with the colour combination. I can really see how it's all going to look now :T :T :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

It is looking very nice Simon and I'm really looking forward to seeing it all finished..:T

One thing with the air con unit..Is that positioned in front of the seating or behind it?
The reason I ask is if it's in front (as mine is) that white unit can be very distracting in bright scenes!
I finished up spraying mine black..Made a world of difference!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> It is looking very nice Simon and I'm really looking forward to seeing it all finished..:T
> 
> One thing with the air con unit..Is that positioned in front of the seating or behind it?
> The reason I ask is if it's in front (as mine is) that white unit can be very distracting in bright scenes!
> I finished up spraying mine black..Made a world of difference!


Thanks Prof. I really didn't want to come in to work today, I wanted to keep building panels 

The aircon is in the back corner, so hopefully people wont even notice it. Once the warranty runs out on it i'll consider doing the same 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I spent a solid 2 days working in the theatre over the weekend 

Some of the more interesting things I got done were:

The two side panels for the screen wall were built, painted and covered.
The door covering the equiptment cupboard had the piano hinge secured and the door hung in place.
All the ash trims were cut to size and all but the three that go over the windows were installed.
Built three more wall panels including the one for the stairs. They have been painted and were drying overnight

I had planned to build the panels to go above and below the screen but I am now worried that where I have positioned my screen isn't going to be high enough. I grabbed a couple of dinning chairs and put one in the first row, the other as a second row. My wife said that she wasn't able to see the bottom of the screen over my head 

I realise dinning chairs probably aren't the best to pick as a test, but I think i'll hold off on those last two panels until I get some recliners and get them delivered.

On to a few photos

Door ajar 
Door closed 

Here you can see the door doing it's thing and it all closed up. The piece of ash that we used in the middle was by far the most interesting grain wise and looks really great in the flesh. We were really happy with the end result. The fit is really good and the gaps are about 1.5mm all round.

I'm now looking for a really clean door knob that will compliment the style and colour scheme. Anyone have any suggestions for nice door knobs?

Side wall 

Here you can see all the trim is in place. Now I can get acurate measurements for building the panels. It also gives you a bit of an idea what the completed wall should look like 

My screen! 

I was also able to get my screen up last week    It's a 130" scope screen from OZTS. It's an AT screen using their new 4k material. The perfs are about 1/2 the size of the the 2k material, so you could in theory sit even closer before you see any of the holes.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Some good progress Simon and it's looking fantastic! Very nice good size screen as well..:T

I personally wouldn't put knobs on the doors..I think it would spoil the smooth look of the panels and it would also make it obvious that they're doors..
I used those double push to open and close type catches that have magnetic plates..You wouldn't know there was a panel that opens on my screen wall!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Some good progress Simon and it's looking fantastic! Very nice good size screen as well..:T
> 
> I personally wouldn't put knobs on the doors..I think it would spoil the smooth look of the panels and it would also make it obvious that they're doors..
> I used those double push to open and close type catches that have magnetic plates..You wouldn't know there was a panel that opens on my screen wall!


Thanks Prof :T

Yeah that was what I originally had planned but i'm not sure if it'll stick out far enough for me to wrap my fat little fingers around . I grabbed the double catch that bunnings have. Obviously designed for audio cabinets, but I thought it would work just as well. I might give it a try and if it doesn't work look at installing a nice flush pull into the timber trim.

Flush pull

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Everything's looking great Simon! Can't see anything but the screen in the one shot - which is perfect!


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Brad :T


----------



## Jason IB

Looking very nice mate! i can't wait to see those super fancy seats in place


----------



## raZorTT

Well this weekend we set out to build the window plugs.

First up was to screw something to the window reveal so that the plug would have something to screw into once installed. I have a bit of 42x19mm timber that was to twisted to be used for building panels, so we used that as a furring channel.

timber inside the window reveal
Another shot

The timber is installed 12mm back from the finished gyprock so that when the plug goes in place I have a flush surface to add the final pieces of insulation.

The plugs themselves were pieces of 12mm MDF cut to fit each opening. on the inside we framed up a box using 70x35mm framing. the Depth of the reveal before it hits a window winder is about 85mm so the framing worked out well. The framing will also allow me to stuff the inside with some insulation to stop the chance of the gap resonating :T

Window plug

You can see in the photo above there are already two windows covered up. We had to make those two plugs in two pieces so you could slide the bottom in first then slot in the top. Only reason for this was because it wouldn't have been possible to do as one due to the riser already being in place 

We completed all four plugs and with the time left built another 6 wall panels 

After my dad left for the day I took everything into the garage and gave it all a coat of black paint.

I did manage to get the final burgundy panel up on the back wall on Saturday morning so here's a quick pic. The last black panel is in the group that I just coated with paint :T

Rear wall almost done

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## bpape

Nicely done. That's a great clean look.


----------



## Prof.

Nice job Simon..:T
What are you using to cover the outside of the plug..just GOM?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Nice job Simon..:T
> What are you using to cover the outside of the plug..just GOM?


The part you can see through the window?

I'm not sure at this stage :dontknow:. I grabbed a couple of things to try out. I went to spotlight and grabbed some blockout cloth and then grabbed some black builders film (black plastic) from bunnings.

I had hoped to maybe come across some sort of window/privacy film that I could install myself but haven't had any luck finding that yet.

I had thought about getting the windows tinted black but it's be around $500+ 

Any suggestions?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

bpape said:


> Nicely done. That's a great clean look.


Thanks Bryan! I'm really happy with the GOM :T

I hadn't ever seen any in the flesh so bought off the many peoples recommendations. Now that a few of the panels are up I can see why everyone likes it so much!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> The part you can see through the window?
> 
> I'm not sure at this stage :dontknow:. I grabbed a couple of things to try out. I went to spotlight and grabbed some blockout cloth and then grabbed some black builders film (black plastic) from bunnings.
> 
> I had hoped to maybe come across some sort of window/privacy film that I could install myself but haven't had any luck finding that yet.
> 
> I had thought about getting the windows tinted black but it's be around $500+
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


I would just use some blockout cloth..It would then just look like the back of a curtain..


----------



## sparkymt

You are making excellent progress razortt. I like how the window plug is shaping up. I plan to do something similar when I get that far in my build.


----------



## raZorTT

sparkymt said:


> You are making excellent progress razortt. I like how the window plug is shaping up. I plan to do something similar when I get that far in my build.


Thanks sparkymt :T

It's been great over the past month or so, I have really been able to maintain my momentum 

With a little luck i'll be able to get the last 6 panels built this week.

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Well I had hoped to get the extra panels built this weekend but instead I concentrated on finishing up the wall plugs, furring strips and treatments.

First cab off the rank was to put something up inside the window to block the back of the wall plug if you were looking through the window from outside. I grabbed some curtain blockout cloth from Spotlight during the week so set about cutting it to size and hanging it up.

Rather than staple the cloth directly to the window reveal I stapled it to a small piece of timber. this made positioning it slightly off the window much easier.

Blockout cloth installed 
Blockout cloth 

From the outside it looks similar to a blind. Probably a bit closer to the window than normal, but you wouldn't notice anything unless you were being devious :devil:

Next step was to put insulation in the plugs

Plugs insulated

After that it was just a matter of putting them in place and screwing them into place.

Once the plugs were secured in place I cut a few small pieces of framing to finish up the furring strips.

Finished furring stips

This gave me the opportunity to cut up the last few pieces of ultratel to finish of the wall treatments and also install the last 3 pieces of stained Ash.

treatments and trim

I have a little tip I thought i'd share for when people need to do inside corners when they are building GOM panels.

Inside corner

After cutting, stretching and stapling the fabric in place what I have done is using some PVA/woodworking glue, I have applied a small amount to cut the edges of the fabric. This does a really good job, when it drys, of holding the threads together. I actually stole the idea from the guy who installed my carpet. He did a very similar thing to the edges of my carpet to reduce the chance of it fraying.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Oh and the other reason I didn't get any work done on the panels was I was busy picking something up from a depot out in queanbeyan! :T:T:T

8 large cartons in two vans and a trailer.

Recliners 1 
Recliners 2 
Recliners 3 
Recliners 4 
Recliners 5 

As you can see they are a black velvet with burgundy piping. The reclining action is motorised as well 

An absolutely massive thank you has to go out to Jason IB for hooking me up with the chairs! :clap::clap:

I absolutely love them, they compliment the room perfectly!

I have only put together one row for now because I still need the room below to cover a few panels, but I couldn't help myself, I had to get one lot setup!   

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

Love em!!!! Those look fantastic!


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> After cutting, stretching and stapling the fabric in place what I have done is using some PVA/woodworking glue, I have applied a small amount to cut the edges of the fabric. This does a really good job, when it drys, of holding the threads together. I actually stole the idea from the guy who installed my carpet. He did a very similar thing to the edges of my carpet to reduce the chance of it fraying.


That's a good idea Simon..:T I do the same thing when I need to screw through cloth..Just putting a dab of Aquadhere where I'm putting the screw, let it dry clear and then put in the screw..
It stops the cloth wrapping itself around the screw! 



raZorTT said:


> Oh and the other reason I didn't get any work done on the panels was I was busy picking something up from a depot out in queanbeyan! :T:T:T
> 
> 8 large cartons in two vans and a trailer.
> 
> Recliners 1
> Recliners 2
> Recliners 3
> Recliners 4
> Recliners 5
> 
> As you can see they are a black velvet with burgundy piping. The reclining action is motorised as well
> 
> An absolutely massive thank you has to go out to Jason IB for hooking me up with the chairs! :clap::clap:
> 
> I absolutely love them, they compliment the room perfectly!
> 
> I have only put together one row for now because I still need the room below to cover a few panels, but I couldn't help myself, I had to get one lot setup!


WOW!! They look really nice!..and a perfect match for the rest of your decor! Very classy.:T :T


----------



## raZorTT

Dale Rasco said:


> Love em!!!! Those look fantastic!





Prof. said:


> WOW!! They look really nice!..and a perfect match for the rest of your decor! Very classy.:T :T


Thanks guys  They are very comfy too!



Prof. said:


> That's a good idea Simon..:T I do the same thing when I need to screw through cloth..Just putting a dab of Aquadhere where I'm putting the screw, let it dry clear and then put in the screw..
> It stops the cloth wrapping itself around the screw!


Hmm why didn't I think of that! I could have used that a few weeks ago!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## chrapladm

Your theater is ..totally wicked!!!!(Incredibles)

I have been slowly following your very long build thread and man........you have got one hell of a Theater. Wish I could have the same. But all in do time.

I forgot a long time ago, But what size is that room again?


----------



## raZorTT

chrapladm said:


> Your theater is ..totally wicked!!!!(Incredibles)
> 
> I have been slowly following your very long build thread and man........you have got one moo baby moo of a Theater. Wish I could have the same. But all in do time.
> 
> I forgot a long time ago, But what size is that room again?



Thanks chrapladm :T

It's certainly been an exercise in patience 

Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Great looking chairs, and of course they go well with your decor! Never seen those before. Never heard of Aquadhere either, that must be a regional thing, I may need to find something similar here.


----------



## Prof.

Aquadhere is just a PVA glue, similar to Liquid Nails only it's white in liquid form and dries clear..


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Great looking chairs, and of course they go well with your decor! Never seen those before. Never heard of Aquadhere either, that must be a regional thing, I may need to find something similar here.


Thanks Brad :T


----------



## fitzwaddle

Thanks Prof


----------



## raZorTT

chrapladm said:


> I forgot a long time ago, But what size is that room again?


Sorry just saw your question. The empty room was 5m x 6m x 2.98m


----------



## fitzwaddle

Any more headway on the fabric and stuff since our last episode? :T


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Any more headway on the fabric and stuff since our last episode? :T


Hi Brad,

Yep I made some more progress this weekend :T

I got three more of the panels built, painted and covered. Which means the walls are done! :T :T

Last wall panels 

Forgive the mess 

Just looking at the photo it makes it seem like the burgundy panel on the right sticks out further than the one nearer the screen, but it's just due to the shadow thrown by the downlights.

As you can probably see in the bottom corner of that photo, the first row of recliners are in place . The photos I took were terrible, so i'll try to get a few in the next day or so.

We've built the the panels for use on the door and I have started staining a final piece of trim for it as well. I should be able to get them covered tomorrow night 

The last two panels for above and below the screen I hope to build next weekend. I've pulled out my old panasonic projector to watch a little bit of content so that I can see if I am happy with the height of the screen. I moved it up about 150mm yesterday so that the second row would be able to see the bottom of the screen even if I was sitting there and didn't recline. 

Originally my eye level was around the bottom 1/3 of the screen, so now i've lifted it up a bit higher I want to be sure i'm happy. In reality most of the time I would be reclining which would make it a little more comfortable than just sitting there, but figure I should be sure!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Looks awesome! :clap: Man it must be great to get all the walls covered, I'm so sick of looking at primed drywall and furring strips!!


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Looks awesome! :clap: Man it must be great to get all the walls covered, I'm so sick of looking at primed drywall and furring strips!!


It is great . It's also a great motivator, once I saw how the first couple looked I really wanted to get cracking on the rest!

I'm thinking about ordering my projector today. I'm 99.9% sure I want to order the JVC X3/RS40.

Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

Looks great Simon, I wish I had the patience for such intricate work that you and Brad both have going on. My changes are more geared to keep the room up and running as much as possible, I would never make it as long as you guys have. Well Done! :clap:


----------



## fitzwaddle

There are definitely times when I've felt "I just want this done" - but then I come to my senses, and keep the spending going... :sarcastic:


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon..I bet it's really starting to feel like a theatre now..
I think it's going to look terrific and I can't wait to see the finished pics! :yes:


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> There are definitely times when I've felt "I just want this done" - but then I come to my senses, and keep the spending going... :sarcastic:


haha hopefully i'm nearly at the end of the rabbit hole 

The projector is really the only thing I have left to buy.... for now


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon..I bet it's really starting to feel like a theatre now..
> I think it's going to look terrific and I can't wait to see the finished pics! :yes:


Thanks Prof it really does feel like a theatre now  

I've put the feelers out to see how long the wait for the X3 will be 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Dale Rasco said:


> Looks great Simon, I wish I had the patience for such intricate work that you and Brad both have going on. My changes are more geared to keep the room up and running as much as possible, I would never make it as long as you guys have. Well Done! :clap:


Thanks Dale :T

Once the projector goes up I expect to be the same. I'm trying to maximise my changes before that happens, cause I plan on enjoying a lot of movies 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Are you buying the X3 locally?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Are you buying the X3 locally?


PM sent.


----------



## raZorTT

As promised here's a quick photo of the two rows of recliners 

Two rows 

I watched Swordfish last night using the old panasonic you can see in the photo. I didn't notice any discomfort watching even though the screen is a tad higher than I had planned.

I also put in the order for the JVC X3 . Should hopefully arrive in about 2 weeks. Just enough time for me to finish the door and the screen panels :T :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Jason IB

raZorTT said:


> As promised here's a quick photo of the two rows of recliners
> 
> Two rows
> 
> I watched Swordfish last night using the old panasonic you can see in the photo. I didn't notice any discomfort watching even though the screen is a tad higher than I had planned.
> 
> I also put in the order for the JVC X3 . Should hopefully arrive in about 2 weeks. Just enough time for me to finish the door and the screen panels :T :T
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Well, you know all too well what i think of the recliners but again I say "HOLY " they look beautiful in your room. Nice projector too


----------



## raZorTT

Jason IB said:


> Well, you know all too well what i think of the recliners but again I say "HOLY " they look beautiful in your room. Nice projector too


Thanks buddy,

They're absolutely brilliant! Thanks again :T:T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

[PIE]Check projector tracking number...not yet...check tracking number...not yet...check...[/PIE]


----------



## Dale Rasco

That is definitely going to be a looooooooonnnnnnngggg two weeks....


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, absolutely love the seating. Fantastic choice. I must have missed it, but what model are they?

Cheers.


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> [PIE]Check projector tracking number...not yet...check tracking number...not yet...check...[/PIE]





Dale Rasco said:


> That is definitely going to be a looooooooonnnnnnngggg two weeks....


haha. Half a week gone already


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, absolutely love the seating. Fantastic choice. I must have missed it, but what model are they?
> 
> Cheers.


Thanks Moggie 

They are custom made. Jason IB has some connections through his work (HT company) and had them made for me. :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

fitzwaddle said:


> [PIE]Check projector tracking number...not yet...check tracking number...not yet...check...[/PIE]





raZorTT said:


> haha. Half a week gone already


That sounds familiar!! :rofl2:


----------



## raZorTT

Nearly finished off the last of the panels on the weekend.

I had hoped to build and cover the two screen panels, but ran out of timber (2 sticks short) so I wasn't able to build the upper panel. I was able to build, paint and cover the lower panel so that is now in place 

I got the panels for the door covered and nailed them and the piece of trim onto the door so it's ready to go. 

I stained the door jamb with the same deep mahogony as the rest of the trim and hope to give it a coat of clear this afternoon. So come tomorrow I should be right to hang the door.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

And yet.... no new pictures......:foottap:


----------



## raZorTT

Sorry Dale! :doh:

Here are some photos of my progress. 

I put some insulation in place inside the columns just to make sure there would be no resonance issues. 

Column stuffing 
Column top 

I tried hanging the door mid week and wasn't happy with the clearances. I also needed to put a brace across the middle of the top door panel because it bowed in after I had covered it in fabric :sad:

So we got that sorted and also changed out the hinges I had originally picked because it didn't give enough clearance. They stick out a little bit more than the others, but the door is a much better fit.

Door close up 
Door 

I built the panel for above the screen but wasn't able to get it covered today 

I've got my eyes peeled for a nice push/pull plate for either side of the inside door. Hopefully i'll find something I like sooner rather than later.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

Thanks Simon, now that mine is done, at least for now, I have to live vicariously through you and Brad! :bigsmile:


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Your seat and room color choices are awesome. I really like reading through your thread. 

Nice equipment setup as well!


:T


----------



## fitzwaddle

The fabric covered door looks sweet, but also looks like a lot of work, lol. Not an option for me anyway, since my doors are nowhere close to flush on the inside (they are on the outside - wow that does me a lot of good - probably could have thought that one through a little better :rolleyesno.


----------



## raZorTT

HuskerOmaha said:


> Your seat and room color choices are awesome. I really like reading through your thread.
> 
> Nice equipment setup as well!
> 
> 
> :T


Thanks HuskerOmaha :T


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> The fabric covered door looks sweet, but also looks like a lot of work, lol. Not an option for me anyway, since my doors are nowhere close to flush on the inside (they are on the outside - wow that does me a lot of good - probably could have thought that one through a little better :rolleyesno.


Thanks Brad. Adding an inside door was a bit of an after thought for me as well, i'm just lucky that we were able to "extend" the door jamb and there was enough room to add the door with panels attached.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Dale Rasco said:


> Thanks Simon, now that mine is done, at least for now, I have to live vicariously through you and Brad! :bigsmile:


Man where is the next generation of HTS theater builders - we need to do some recruiting, lol.

In the meantime, even if you're done, keep posting to keep us up to date on the never ending tweaks! :clap:

I'm doing my part by slowing to a crawl I guess haha


----------



## raZorTT

This morning I covered and installed the last of the fabric panels :T

The screen wall is now complete!

I left this shot a little bright so you get an idea of how the panels sit together.

Screen wall seam 

Finished screen wall 

I'm still looking for the right push plate or door handles for the room. Aside for those the rest of the work to be done will be centred around mounting the projector and lens. 

Has anyone seen any good links/threads around DIY lens slides?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> This morning I covered and installed the last of the fabric panels :T
> 
> The screen wall is now complete!
> 
> I left this shot a little bright so you get an idea of how the panels sit together.
> 
> Screen wall seam
> 
> Finished screen wall


Nice job on the screen wall Simon..:T It's looking very finished now.. 



> Has anyone seen any good links/threads around DIY lens slides?


Most people just use drawer slides for the rails..either mounted directly to the ceiling, or suspended down on a timber plate..depending on where your projector is mounted..
I don't have any links unfortunately..


----------



## chrapladm

Nice job!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Nice job on the screen wall Simon..:T It's looking very finished now..





chrapladm said:


> Nice job!!


Thanks guys!




> Most people just use drawer slides for the rails..either mounted directly to the ceiling, or suspended down on a timber plate..depending on where your projector is mounted..
> I don't have any links unfortunately..


Yeah that's what I was thinking. Might try and come up with something using some good quality blum runners. 

Would have loved a cineslide, but it pushes my budget a tad too far :hissyfit:

Simon


----------



## badejong

Very nicely done! :clap:


----------



## fitzwaddle

Fantastic results and a ton of work you put in, congratulations! 

Come on projector!


----------



## raZorTT

badejong said:


> Very nicely done! :clap:





fitzwaddle said:


> Fantastic results and a ton of work you put in, congratulations!
> 
> Come on projector!


Thanks guys  :T

I put a couple extra pics up in the anamorphic thread so I thought i'd post them here as well. It gives you a better feel for the size and setup of the room.
Shot over the seats 
Shot with a few more stars 

Once I get my hands on a better camera I can see myself spending half a day playing with settings and different light levels to try and get the best pics 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Mark Techer

raZorTT said:


> Has anyone seen any good links/threads around DIY lens slides?


Simon, here is one I made from 2 pieces of 50mm/5mm angle alloy and a draw slide. Because the slide is vertical, it can carry the lens without issue. I used to make these using two, but they were too bulky. I also removed the plastic lock lever so that the lens can be easily removed. It doesn't just slide off the end, I do need to apply some force, it just means that I don't have to struggle with flicking the lever.


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Mark,

Thanks for posting the pic!! That's a great (inexpensive) way to mount the lens!

I had been thinking about how to do it so a drawer slide would be mounted vertically like that. I must admit my ideas had been a bit more convoluted  

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Mark Techer

raZorTT said:


> Hey Mark,
> 
> Thanks for posting the pic!! That's a great (inexpensive) way to mount the lens!
> 
> I had been thinking about how to do it so a drawer slide would be mounted vertically like that. I must admit my ideas had been a bit more convoluted
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


They are actually designed to run vertically (up to 20KG support) not horizontally, and given the size and weight of my MK4 lens, I didn't want to come in to the cinema and find it on the ground one day because the slide had failed. I'm sure you feel the same about the CM5E you have.


----------



## raZorTT

Absolutely! so much so that I was thinking about attaching a chain to it just incase


----------



## Prof.

Any further updates Simon? 
Has your projector arrived yet?


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> I left this shot a little bright so you get an idea of how the panels sit together.
> Screen wall seam
> 
> Finished screen wall


Hey Simon, putting together my screen wall panels is still on my todo list - question for yours - how did you attach the panels that meet the side walls?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Any further updates Simon?
> Has your projector arrived yet?


No I'm afraid . I'm hoping there will be a delivery slip in the mail today! :foottap:


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Hey Simon, putting together my screen wall panels is still on my todo list - question for yours - how did you attach the panels that meet the side walls?


Hey Brad,

All of mine are friction fit at this stage. The top and bottom panels fit pretty tight, so push the side panels out against the side walls. If they move over time I can put some velcro on them, because the panels actually line up with the uprights of my screen wall.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

But did you have any little blocks or the like attached to your side panels, and then the screen wall panels butt up against those? Or maybe your side wall panels stop right before the place where the screen wall panels extend to against the wall?

Man, they're really stringing you along on the projector - I just ran across Moggie's thread on AVS, and you were mentioning expecting delivery the next day - that was 4/17. :foottap:


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> But did you have any little blocks or the like attached to your side panels, and then the screen wall panels butt up against those? Or maybe your side wall panels stop right before the place where the screen wall panels extend to against the wall?


Hey Brad,

I've tried to draw a quick sketch to show how it looks.

sketch 

In the corner where the side panel and side screen panel were to meet up we joined two pieces of framing and attached that to the top and bottom plate and also to the wall.

The bit that was screwed into the wall acts as the furring strip. The other part that sticks out into the room was flush with the screen wall so it gave me something to attach the screen wall panel if I needed it.

The side panel runs right into the corner of those two pieces of framing. The side screen wall panel then sits over the top.

Does that make sense? Or have I made it worse :scratch:



> Man, they're really stringing you along on the projector - I just ran across Moggie's thread on AVS, and you were mentioning expecting delivery the next day - that was 4/17. :foottap:


Yeah it's been a bit of a drama. I think the biggest problem was JVC's stock levels were non existent right when I purchased it. A couple of times they just didn't send one to the guys I bought it off :hissyfit:. Now I think the long weekend we just had has mucked up the shipping companies.

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

IT ARRIVED!!! :yikes::T

It is MASSIVE  I had read the specs on it but it hadn't really occured to me how big it was going to be. You could fit at least 4 of my old panasonic projectors in the same space!

Dad is going to come round tomorrow and we are going to try and work out how to hang it and the Crystalmorphic. All up I think we need to hang 22kg. I might need to get people that sit under it to sign a waiver 

Simon


----------



## Prof.

YAY!!!! Finally!!

You're certainly going to need a solid mounting for all that weight including the lens!
One suggestion..Buy a really good quality projector mount the solidly locks the projector into position..
Even with my light weight projector..if I lightly bump it, it moves slightly out of position..
Most locking methods on these mounts are just metal to metal friction and some are just not capable of securely clamping that sort of weight..


----------



## fitzwaddle

Hope you're having a great weekend! Should be fun to see the results.

Edit: forgot to say thanks for the sketch showing how your screen panels are connected, that did help.


----------



## raZorTT

Well we got the projector up yesterday 

I think I mentioned before I had purchased a peerless mount for the X3.

We screwed a couple pieces of framing together (side by side) and attached to top half of the mount to the centre. We then screwed that onto the ceiling and also into the soffit framing. We then also cut a couple cleats and screwed them half on the soffit frame and half on the mount framing to make it a bit more secure.

mount 

The project was still hanging there this morning so that's a plus :T

Next weekend will be hanging the lens. I have to be out and about all day today.



fitzwaddle said:


> Hope you're having a great weekend! Should be fun to see the results.
> 
> Edit: forgot to say thanks for the sketch showing how your screen panels are connected, that did help.


No worries  

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

What do people feel is a better way to setup a projector?

Keep it relatively level and use lens shift to get the picture on screen?
Or tilt the projector down and adjust the keystone.

Obviously there will probably be some lens shift and keystone adjustment in both scenarios but I was wondering if one was better than the other?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

I would keep it level and use lens shift..
Tilting and keystone might degrade the image slightly, although these days keystoning is generally pretty good..particularly with the higher quality projectors..


----------



## Mark Techer

raZorTT said:


> What do people feel is a better way to setup a projector?
> 
> Keep it relatively level and use lens shift to get the picture on screen?
> Or tilt the projector down and adjust the keystone.
> 
> Obviously there will probably be some lens shift and keystone adjustment in both scenarios but I was wondering if one was better than the other?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Lens shift! You have a good 80% on that projector. Key Stone correction is electronic and messes with the scaling. 

How will you mount the A-Lens?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> I would keep it level and use lens shift..
> Tilting and keystone might degrade the image slightly, although these days keystoning is generally pretty good..particularly with the higher quality projectors..





Mark Techer said:


> Lens shift! You have a good 80% on that projector. Key Stone correction is electronic and messes with the scaling.
> 
> How will you mount the A-Lens?


Thanks guys! Keeping it level it is :T

Hey Mark, 

I've got the draw slide and pieces of angle like you suggested earlier in the thread. The star ceiling is made out of 16mm MDF and the support for the star ceiling was distributed across the ceiling evenly so the extra weight shouldn't be an issue :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hey folks,

Thought i'd show you the progress we made with the lens mount today.

I liked the way Mark had mounted his lens a few posts ago so wanted to mimic that to allow me to move the lens in and out of the light path.

I grabbed some aluminium angle, drawer runners and some nuts and bolts and we set about making a lens mount.

Runner bolted to angle 
Two pieces joined 

I was originally think of trying to cover the angle with fidellio velvet, but much to my dad's "delight" I decided we should try and cover it up with mahogany left overs 

Holes in trim
Trim
Trim again 

Here's the finished product!!

Mount open 
Mount closed 

just letting things dry, so probably next weekend to get it up 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Very neat work Simon..should do the job well..:T But I'm guessing it's not going to get a lot of use!
I never use my slide anymore as the the only 16:9 I watch these days is tv and who cares about a bit of image degredation with that!


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof 

You might be right, most of my movies are scope too 

It'll be handy for cleaning at least :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Spot on!. and that's why I keep mine there..It makes it easy to slide the lens out for cleaning..


----------



## raZorTT

Well we got one of the last pieces of the puzzle in today 

We attached the mount to the star ceiling and slid the lens into place. I only spent about 10 mins adjusting the focus and zoom on the projector before sliding the lens into place. The lens is pre focused to 5m which is pretty close to how far it is from the screen, so I haven't tried any fine focus adjustments yet. 

Mount attached to the ceiling 

I adjusted the projector so that it's level and moved the picture down using the lens shift after reading Prof's and Mark's recommendations. That has meant that the lens is almost extended down as far as it will go to centre the beam. 

Crystalmorphic in place 

I have to get my hands on some test patterns so I can fine tune the focus, but I'm over the moon with what I am currently seeing on the screen!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Out of interest what did you guys use to setup your video/sound?

I just looked on amazon and found these

Spears & Munsil High-Definition Benchmark Blu-ray Disc Edition
Digital Video Essentials: HD Basics
Disney WOW: World of Wonder

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

For video I've used both Spears and Munsil and DVE..
Didn't like the final settings produced by either and finished up doing it by eye to how I prefer the image to look like..
I have heard that Disney's WOW is pretty good, but haven't tried it..

On the audio side, I've just used MCACC in the AVR and an SPL meter..


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Well we got one of the last pieces of the puzzle in today
> 
> We attached the mount to the star ceiling and slid the lens into place. I only spent about 10 mins adjusting the focus and zoom on the projector before sliding the lens into place. The lens is pre focused to 5m which is pretty close to how far it is from the screen, so I haven't tried any fine focus adjustments yet.
> 
> Mount attached to the ceiling
> 
> I adjusted the projector so that it's level and moved the picture down using the lens shift after reading Prof's and Mark's recommendations. That has meant that the lens is almost extended down as far as it will go to centre the beam.
> 
> Crystalmorphic in place
> 
> I have to get my hands on some test patterns so I can fine tune the focus, but I'm over the moon with what I am currently seeing on the screen!
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Either that's a very small lens or a huge projector!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> For video I've used both Spears and Munsil and DVE..
> Didn't like the final settings produced by either and finished up doing it by eye to how I prefer the image to look like..
> I have heard that Disney's WOW is pretty good, but haven't tried it..
> 
> On the audio side, I've just used MCACC in the AVR and an SPL meter..


Thanks Prof.

I'm not sure i'd get it right doing it by eye. I don't really know what I should be aiming for.
I might get the discs and see if I like any of the end results and tweak from there.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> For video I've used both Spears and Munsil and DVE..
> Didn't like the final settings produced by either and finished up doing it by eye to how I prefer the image to look like..
> I have heard that Disney's WOW is pretty good, but haven't tried it..
> 
> On the audio side, I've just used MCACC in the AVR and an SPL meter..





Prof. said:


> Either that's a very small lens or a huge projector!!


The projector is massive  :T


----------



## fitzwaddle

:yes: :yes: :yay2: :yay2: we want screen shots we want screen shots :yay2: :yay2: :yes: :yes:


----------



## raZorTT

I got my setup discs in the mail yesterday 

the disney WOW disc looks pretty impressive. Hopefully my ability to tweak things will do it justice.

I to get some screen shots soon!!


----------



## Prof.

I'll be very interested to hear how you go with the WOW disc..I have one waiting in my Amazon basket!
Can't wait to see some screenshots!!


----------



## mechman

Sorry I'm so late to the party. :huh: I have Spears & Munsil, WoW, and DVE. Of the three, the one I use the most is Spears & Munsil. Disney's disc is ok though.


----------



## Prof.

So you don't think the WoW disc is any improvement over the S&M disc?
When I did my calibrations with the S&M disc..to there requirements..the image was just dull and lifeless! :thumbsdown:..Even after getting gain and bias dialed in, it still didn't grab me..


----------



## raZorTT

so far I haven't had any luck getting my system to display full HDMI. I've made the changes on the playstation to include full black and white, but I still can't see a couple of the bars on the test patterns 

I will see if bypassing the amp will sort it out.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

mechman said:


> Sorry I'm so late to the party. :huh: I have Spears & Munsil, WoW, and DVE. Of the three, the one I use the most is Spears & Munsil. Disney's disc is ok though.


Thanks mechman, the spears one was going to be next cab off the rank 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## mechman

Prof. said:


> So you don't think the WoW disc is any improvement over the S&M disc?
> When I did my calibrations with the S&M disc..to there requirements..the image was just dull and lifeless! :thumbsdown:..Even after getting gain and bias dialed in, it still didn't grab me..


No. There really is only so much you can do with these discs. The main things are brightness, contrast and sharpness. Color and Tint rely upon the filters supplied as much as the source material. None of the three caused me to change settings that were good for the previous calibration disk used.

Gain and bias are settings which should be adjusted with a meter. IIRC, none of these discs supplies images for adjusting those settings - grayscale images. But I could be wrong as I haven't looked at WoW or DVE in quite some time.


----------



## Prof.

mechman said:


> Gain and bias are settings which should be adjusted with a meter. IIRC, none of these discs supplies images for adjusting those settings .


Not specifically, but I found some greenish tinting in the brighter contrast bars which I was able to remove by reducing green gain..and lowering "Brilliant Colour"..

As far as just adjusting brightness, contrast and sharpness..You can get that off early Star Wars discs (which I use as a basic set up) and several other movies without having to buy a calibration disc..


----------



## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> So you don't think the WoW disc is any improvement over the S&M disc?
> When I did my calibrations with the S&M disc..to there requirements..the image was just dull and lifeless! :thumbsdown:..Even after getting gain and bias dialed in, it still didn't grab me..


I found the same thing using DVE on my TVs - I guess it was good to try, and maybe got me close, but I still had to tweak by eye to get to something I liked.


----------



## Prof.

Yeah..it seems to depend on the type of display that's being calibrated as to the effectiveness of these disc's..
I found DVE worked well on my original Benq projector, but virtually useless on my Optoma projector..
I bought the S&M disc because it was specifically made for blu-ray, but it didn't live up to expectations..


----------



## Mark Techer

Simon, 

Just my $0.02 worth, but the only way to get calibrated properly is to use a colorimeter. There are a few points to address and and some are interactive like grey scale, gamma. With our dollar being this strong, now is the time to get your self at least an eye1 and use the free HCFR software as it is quite good. 

All video is mastered at 6500K and it should be viewed at that colour temp as well. Using test patterns off a disc will not allow you to adjust this as, simply put, how do you know what 6500K actually looks like? It would be like driving a car with no speedo or tacho. You might guess it right, but you could also be off, way off. 

Below are my calibration charts. I calibrate every 100 hours and it is nice to know that I am watching video calibrated properly.

If you look at my charts (last done at 1500 hours), the green gain need to be raised a touch. The JVC X series projectors have way more adjustments than my BenQW5000, so it is possible to get even better results.


----------



## raZorTT

Mark Techer said:


> Simon,
> 
> Just my $0.02 worth, but the only way to get calibrated properly is to use a colorimeter. There are a few points to address and and some are interactive like grey scale, gamma. With our dollar being this strong, now is the time to get your self at least an eye1 and use the free HCFR software as it is quite good.
> 
> All video is mastered at 6500K and it should be viewed at that colour temp as well. Using test patterns off a disc will not allow you to adjust this as, simply put, how do you know what 6500K actually looks like? It would be like driving a car with no speedo or tacho. You might guess it right, but you could also be off, way off.
> 
> Below are my calibration charts. I calibrate every 100 hours and it is nice to know that I am watching video calibrated properly.
> 
> If you look at my charts (last done at 1500 hours), the green gain need to be raised a touch. The JVC X series projectors have way more adjustments than my BenQW5000, so it is possible to get even better results.


Hey Mark,

Thanks for the post!! :T

Your graphs look good  do you find they just need the odd tweak every 100 hours or so?

That's exactly my problem! I've never done colour calibration before, so as you suggest wouldn't have a clue what 6500K colour looks like.

Is the eyeOne the meter you are using? Where did you pick it up from?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Mark Techer

raZorTT said:


> Hey Mark,
> 
> Thanks for the post!! :T
> 
> Your graphs look good  do you find they just need the odd tweak every 100 hours or so?
> 
> That's exactly my problem! I've never done colour calibration before, so as you suggest wouldn't have a clue what 6500K colour looks like.
> 
> Is the eyeOne the meter you are using? Where did you pick it up from?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Hi Simon,

DTV Forum memebr MGoldsmith (DVDownunder) sourced mine for me through his business. The EYE1 is from X-Right, so a google should point in the right direction. I'd say with our dollar being where it is, you would be looking at less than the $220 I paid when the dollar was in the mid to high 70's. 

I've calibrated my BenQ right out of the box since 0 hours when I bought it in 2008 and the first 300 hours had the most significant changes. The lamp didn't really seem to fully stabilize after 1200 hours. Initially I would tweak the tweaks I had done previously and this lead to frustrations. Now I measure to see what it is doing, reset everything and go from there. Because I am now so familiar with what the BenQ does, calibrations are quick - usually less than 15min. 

I spend 2 hours on a JVC X3 just learning what the gamma controls actually did. The THX mode or 6500K setting is pretty good already. The colorimeter will just allow you to take it to a whole new level.


----------



## mechman

Looks good Mark! :T Do you like the gamma at 2.2? I'm a 2.3-2.4 gamma type of guy. :dumbcrazy:


----------



## Mark Techer

mechman said:


> Looks good Mark! :T Do you like the gamma at 2.2? I'm a 2.3-2.4 gamma type of guy. :dumbcrazy:


I have taken a few measurements at varying gammas (up to 2.8) and found I got the flattest graphs at 2.2. What is the story with 2.5? As you go up from 2.2, the image gets darker. With my projector, you scroll through the gamma settings 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, then it goes back to 2.5 :dontknow: then back to 2.2. 

I didn't post the CIE diagram because the colour are way over saturated. I was turning the colour down to allow the points to better match those of the CIE diagram, however the colour was looking quite washed out. I acquired a copy of THX CALIBRATOR and found setting colour and tint with that gives a much nicer end result even though the CIE diagram says otherwise. Also it seems that the colour filter for green in the colour wheel is not accurate, so biases more towards yellow and even with CMS, I can't seem to correct that. So all things considered, I've the best I can with the gear I have. Besides, for what this BenQ W5000 has cost me, I should not complain anyway.


----------



## mechman

Mark Techer said:


> I have taken a few measurements at varying gammas (up to 2.8) and found I got the flattest graphs at 2.2. What is the story with 2.5? As you go up from 2.2, the image gets darker. With my projector, you scroll through the gamma settings 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2.8, then it goes back to 2.5 :dontknow: then back to 2.2.
> 
> I didn't post the CIE diagram because the colour are way over saturated. I was turning the colour down to allow the points to better match those of the CIE diagram, however the colour was looking quite washed out. I acquired a copy of THX CALIBRATOR and found setting colour and tint with that gives a much nicer end result even though the CIE diagram says otherwise. Also it seems that the colour filter for green in the colour wheel is not accurate, so biases more towards yellow and even with CMS, I can't seem to correct that. So all things considered, I've the best I can with the gear I have. Besides, for what this BenQ W5000 has cost me, I should not complain anyway.


Which pj do you have?


----------



## fitzwaddle

mechman said:


> Which pj do you have?





Mark Techer said:


> Besides, for what this BenQ W5000 has cost me, I should not complain anyway.


----------



## Mark Techer

I got it for wholesale so paid substantially less than the retail price at the time. I would like to upgrade at some point to go 3D. The JVC X series projectors are nice, just I find DLP to have a certain look to them that the other technologies (LCD and LCoS/DiLA) don't seem to have. I was impressed with the gamma correction on the JVC X3 though.


----------



## raZorTT

Here are a couple pics for you guys.

A friend was able to snap a couple pics of the theatre before he had to go take care of his baby. Hopefully I can get him back soon to take a few more screen shots :T

Towards the screen 
Towards the back 
Monsters Inc 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Nice pics! Room and the show looks great.


----------



## chrapladm

Wow.

As usual those pics are amazing.


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Nice pics! Room and the show looks great.





chrapladm said:


> Wow.
> 
> As usual those pics are amazing.


Thanks guys :T


----------



## Prof.

Wow! Simon..The room looks fantastic and the star ceiling really sets it off..Great job!! :clap: :T
Would love to see some bigger screenshots..


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Prof :T

And a HUGE thanks for everyone for contributing to the thread over the past 2 years (yikes it's that long already!). I wouldn't have spent nearly as much money  or got anywhere near the result I have without everyone's help!

I'm due a new camera so am looking at what DSLR I should maybe get. All my friends have canon's so it would make sense for me to get a canon so I can borrow some of their fancy lenses 

Has anyone had any experience with the 60D?

Simon


----------



## mechman

Mark Techer said:


> I got it for wholesale so paid substantially less than the retail price at the time. I would like to upgrade at some point to go 3D. The JVC X series projectors are nice, just I find DLP to have a certain look to them that the other technologies (LCD and LCoS/DiLA) don't seem to have. I was impressed with the gamma correction on the JVC X3 though.


I thought that your gamma menu looked familiar!


----------



## mechman

Phenomenal room Simon!!! I absolutely love it! :clap:


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Mechman :T

I'm stoked with how it has turned out!


----------



## chrapladm

60D is a pretty good camera. I cant afford one so I was looking at the 550. Not much of anything diff between them so I am sure you will be happy with the 60D camera.


----------



## Homeincontrol

Everything works great in that room. That is one sweet space. Love the seating choice. Nice!


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Here are a couple pics for you guys.
> 
> A friend was able to snap a couple pics of the theatre before he had to go take care of his baby. Hopefully I can get him back soon to take a few more screen shots :T
> 
> Towards the screen
> Towards the back
> Monsters Inc
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Simon, absolutely incredible outcome. I love the look and I'm sure it performs equally well.
[I'm still a little bitter that you overtook me on the build time though  ]

So what's the next project?


----------



## Mark Techer

Simon, good to see you have the A-Lens mounted on that sled


----------



## raZorTT

chrapladm said:


> 60D is a pretty good camera. I cant afford one so I was looking at the 550. Not much of anything diff between them so I am sure you will be happy with the 60D camera.


Thanks for the heads up on the 550. I haven't really even started researching yet, it was just the one my friend wants to upgrade to.

I'll have to lay low for a month or two so the cost of projector are but a distant memory  before putting the camera on the CC 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Simon, absolutely incredible outcome. I love the look and I'm sure it performs equally well.
> [I'm still a little bitter that you overtook me on the build time though  ]
> 
> So what's the next project?


Thanks Moggie :T

Will we ever be "finished" though? Probably not 

I still have to try and get the GE working with the xantech block I grabbed off ebay. Also I need to spend a bit of time tidying up the equipment cupboard, installing some LED strip so I can actually see my stuff 

Not sure what the next project will be, I'm at a bit of a loss actually  I'm sure you feel the same. Maybe it's time to put a second storey on the house LOL

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Mark Techer said:


> Simon, good to see you have the A-Lens mounted on that sled


Thanks Mark,

Even if I end up getting lazy and leaving it in place it'll make cleaning it SO much easier!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hey guys,

The LED strip I ordered off Ebay arrived today 

I managed to find a spare 12VDC power supply in my bits bin and hooked it up to a magnetic reed switch. 

Closed 
Open 

I'm going to put the strip on the side of my equipment cupboard so that when the door is open the LEDs come on and let me actually see what's in there 

I also got a squeezebox Boom delivered today. I'm quite a big fan of the squeezebox range. I now have 2 duets and the boom all controlled from the Iphone 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nice pickup..How many metres in the roll?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Nice pickup..How many metres in the roll?


Hey Prof,

5m for $30 which I thought was a bargain. You can cut it every 3 LEDs to suit your needs

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Sounds good..Did they have other colours as well? I'm looking at re-doing my soffits shortly..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Sounds good..Did they have other colours as well? I'm looking at re-doing my soffits shortly..


Yeah they had red and blue

this was the store I bought from 
http://stores.ebay.com.au/my-happyshop

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Thanks Simon..That looks the ticket..free postage as well! :T


----------



## Prof.

Also, is there some sort of plug/socket on the lights or is it just bare wires?
I'll have to get a 12V. mains convertor, as the one they list isn't available..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Also, is there some sort of plug/socket on the lights or is it just bare wires?
> I'll have to get a 12V. mains convertor, as the one they list isn't available..


Hey Prof,

No there isn't a plug or socket, they are just bare wires.

I was lucky cause I had a spare power supply and plug lying around. Maybe something like this from Jaycar will do the job?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Thanks Simon..That Jaycar unit looks ideal..:T


----------



## raZorTT

I made some progress on the equipment cupboard today :T

I decided to chop the LED strip up so that I could stick it to the underside of the shelves to provide illumination. The LED strip I bought allowed you to cut it every three LEDs. There is a line marked showing you where to cut. After which you are left with a positive and negative solder post on the end of each pieces. I soldered all the pieces together, daisy chaining them.

I put one half of the magnetic reed switch at the top of the opening and the other is attached to the door. I spray painted them black so unless you were looking for it you wouldn't notice them.

Daisy chained 
Let there be light! 

I can now see what it is i'm doing when the room is in either off or a low light setting! :T

I still have to finish up the edging around the opening which will hide the red/black wires that you can see 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

That looks neat Simon..:T How did you attach the strips to the underside of the shelves?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> That looks neat Simon..:T How did you attach the strips to the underside of the shelves?


Thanks Prof 

The LED strip has 3M adhesive on it so I just had to peel the backing and press hard!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Nifty!


----------



## raZorTT

Looks like i'm going to have to come up with something else for the LED strip. It doesn't really like sticking to matte paint :-\ three of the five strips have peeled themselves off, so i'm now trying to think what I can use to keep them in place.

any thoughts? 

Simon


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Looks like i'm going to have to come up with something else for the LED strip. It doesn't really like sticking to matte paint :-\ three of the five strips have peeled themselves off, so i'm now trying to think what I can use to keep them in place.
> 
> any thoughts?
> 
> Simon


Dabs of hot glue would work although it would require you glue in short sections and may get a little sticky. What about a roll of good quality double sided tape to replace what was was pre-installed (you can get narrow 6mm size)?

The tape on my LEDs is very strong but then again I paid a LOT more than you :scratch:

Edit: if you can remove the shelves I'd be tempted to route a channel so the LEDs can be embedded for a clean look. It would make glueing with hot glue easier too.


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Dabs of hot glue would work although it would require you glue in short sections and may get a little sticky. What about a roll of good quality double sided tape to replace what was was pre-installed (you can get narrow 6mm size)?
> 
> The tape on my LEDs is very strong but then again I paid a LOT more than you :scratch:
> 
> Edit: if you can remove the shelves I'd be tempted to route a channel so the LEDs can be embedded for a clean look. It would make glueing with hot glue easier too.


Hey Moggie,

Hot glue might be the go. Looks like I will have to raid my mum's craft supplies 

I can still remove the shelves so routing a channel sounds like a good idea.

Thanks :T
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon..

I'm about to take down my suspended ceiling light tray, to make way for my next projector..
The projector has a very large offset requiring it to be mounted very close to the ceiling..which then puts it above the current light tray..

I'm planning to make a new ceiling light that will be 1200mm. long x 300mm.wide and 150mm. deep..
It will have a prismatic acrylic face and I'm looking at lighting it with an LED light string with a chaser control unit..
I'm going to need the type of string that your using, that can be cut to the desired length, so it can be coiled around inside the light assembly..

Do you know if that particular string is available in a 6M. length only? I haven't been able to find it again!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon..
> 
> I'm about to take down my suspended ceiling light tray, to make way for my next projector..
> The projector has a very large offset requiring it to be mounted very close to the ceiling..which then puts it above the current light tray..
> 
> I'm planning to make a new ceiling light that will be 1200mm. long x 300mm.wide and 150mm. deep..
> It will have a prismatic acrylic face and I'm looking at lighting it with an LED light string with a chaser control unit..
> I'm going to need the type of string that your using, that can be cut to the desired length, so it can be coiled around inside the light assembly..
> 
> Do you know if that particular string is available in a 6M. length only? I haven't been able to find it again!


Hey Prof 

Sounds like an interesting project! Have you got any diagrams?
It looks like 5m is all they sell. if you go with white I can send 1m or so of what I have left over.

my-happyshop

Do you know which projector you are going to get?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Thanks for that offer Simon..
On doing further calculations it looks like I'll need even more than 6M.!
The idea is that the light string will be coiled around from the outside perimeter all the way to the centre, so that the coils will be virtually touching each other..It looks like I'll need about 8M..

The whole design is only in my head at the moment, but I'll be doing some rough drawings of it shortly..

The projector I'm planning to get is the Mitsubishi HC4000..I've read some very good reviews on it and all owners are amazed at the quality of the image..
In the US it's considered to be the best DLP projector under $2000.00! and it will take an anamorphic lens..
The screenshots I've seen are absolutely stunning!!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Thanks for that offer Simon..
> On doing further calculations it looks like I'll need even more than 6M.!
> The idea is that the light string will be coiled around from the outside perimeter all the way to the centre, so that the coils will be virtually touching each other..It looks like I'll need about 8M..
> 
> The whole design is only in my head at the moment, but I'll be doing some rough drawings of it shortly..


It sounds intriguing, I look forward to seeing some diagrams and then some progress pics  :T



> The projector I'm planning to get is the Mitsubishi HC4000..I've read some very good reviews on it and all owners are amazed at the quality of the image..
> In the US it's considered to be the best DLP projector under $2000.00! and it will take an anamorphic lens..
> The screenshots I've seen are absolutely stunning!!


Sounds great :T Is that going to be courtesy of the tax man  Hopefully you are quicker at getting screen shots than I am 

On that front though, I bought my new camera on the weekend so i'm going to try and get some screen shots taken this weekend :unbelievable:

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Sounds great :T Is that going to be courtesy of the tax man  Hopefully you are quicker at getting screen shots than I am


No.. It's actually courtesy of my dog boarding business..Business has been great lately..:bigsmile:



> On that front though, I bought my new camera on the weekend so i'm going to try and get some screen shots taken this weekend :unbelievable:


Which camera did you buy?

I've just been quoted $60 for the prismatic acrylic, including cutting to shape..Pretty good really! :yes:


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> No.. It's actually courtesy of my dog boarding business..Business has been great lately..:bigsmile:
> 
> 
> Which camera did you buy?
> 
> I've just been quoted $60 for the prismatic acrylic, including cutting to shape..Pretty good really! :yes:


Hey Prof,

After talking to my friends it turned out they all had canons so i've gotten myself a 60D . I've been impressed so far with just the mucking around I have done with it.

That seems like a good price for the acrylic :T, looks like you can start work this weekend 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Did you try roughing up the paint under where the LEDs stick? Or the adhesive that IR repeater emitters stick on with, it seems strong and holds up fairly well - no idea where to source it though.


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Did you try roughing up the paint under where the LEDs stick? Or the adhesive that IR repeater emitters stick on with, it seems strong and holds up fairly well - no idea where to source it though.


I cleaned the surface but didn't really rough it up :scratch: I think now the adhesive has probably lost some of its punch so I need to glue or hold it up with something


----------



## chrapladm

Prismatic acrylic is what exactly?

I bought some acrylic for the top of my sub but that is probably something different.


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Hey Prof,
> 
> After talking to my friends it turned out they all had canons so i've gotten myself a 60D . I've been impressed so far with just the mucking around I have done with it.


Nice camera! :T You should be able to get some nice screenshots with that..



> That seems like a good price for the acrylic :T, looks like you can start work this weekend


It's still awhile off yet..I can't find anyone locally who can roll alum. angle..I don't want to travel 200K. just to get a bit of rolled alum!..I might have to rethink my design..
When I get it all organised I'll be starting a new thread..



chrapladm said:


> Prismatic acrylic is what exactly?
> 
> I bought some acrylic for the top of my sub but that is probably something different.


Prismatic acrylic is that clear acrylic with little prisms all over it..
It's quite often used as diffusers in fluro light fittings..It's very good at hiding the light source without reducing light output..


----------



## Owen Bartley

Hi Simon, I zoomed through the last 20 pages or so, but I didn't see if you mentioned what you are using as room treatment underneath the GOM. I saw pictures of the insulation, but wanted to ask what you decided to use and how you liked it after finishing up the panels?

The theatre looks amazing and I think all of your time and hard work are definitely paying off.


----------



## raZorTT

Owen Bartley said:


> Hi Simon, I zoomed through the last 20 pages or so, but I didn't see if you mentioned what you are using as room treatment underneath the GOM. I saw pictures of the insulation, but wanted to ask what you decided to use and how you liked it after finishing up the panels?
> 
> The theatre looks amazing and I think all of your time and hard work are definitely paying off.


Thanks Owen, appreciate the kind words :T

I used a product call Bradfords Ultratel. In Australia we can't get the OC 703 insulation that most people in the states use for treatments, so I did some research on a couple of Australian HT forums and found the ultratel came pretty close.

I think the quickest way to narrow your candidates down is to find products that are used as a sound treatment in and around air conditioning ducts. 

Bpape here on the HTS should be able to hook you up with something :T 

Hope that helps
Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Owen Bartley

Thanks, I figure 703 is probably the way to go, but I like to see what alternatives people use. And sometimes people come up with some creative mixes of materials, or little variations, like drilling holes in soundboard, etc.


----------



## bpape

OC703 has kind of become a looser term for 3lb/cu ft rigid fiberglass board. There are several companies that make something basically identical. 

Other options include mineral wool and acoustic cotton. The cotton is more expensive but is completely 'green', comes in colors (in 1" and 2"), still a 3lb density, and actually performs better inch for inch in the lower frequencies.

Bryan


----------



## raZorTT

This post is probably only @ prof, but others feel free to chime in with options.

I'm thinking about some motorised curtains for 16x9 masking and found this 

http://www.envioustechnology.com.au/products/product-detail.php?ID=196

Seems like pretty good value (in the 15 mins I have been looking ). Also has a reasonable motor load of 25kgs.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Haha.. I was looking at doing exactly the same thing awhile back using the same system! 
I decided against it in the end because the only 16:9 content I watch is TV..and it wasn't worth it for just that..

One of my concerns with that remote system was how accurate are the stop positions! Would it stop in exactly the same position each time for the masking?
I would suggest that you speak to them about that just to clarify..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Haha.. I was looking at doing exactly the same thing awhile back using the same system!
> I decided against it in the end because the only 16:9 content I watch is TV..and it wasn't worth it for just that..
> 
> One of my concerns with that remote system was how accurate are the stop positions! Would it stop in exactly the same position each time for the masking?
> I would suggest that you speak to them about that just to clarify..


Thanks Prof.

They have gotten back to my query already which is impressive. 



> Thanks for your email. The system does not remember "in-between" stop
> points, just open and closed. Using the remote control it is possible to
> manually stop it at any location between open and closed.


I guess you could perhaps stop it with a macro or similar with something like a logitech. So wonder what other options I have? might have to talk to some curtain folk.

I didn't think i'd watch much other than scope, but i've recently gone through a few TV series on BD and a lot of the pixar/disney movies are 16:9

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I guess you could perhaps stop it with a macro or similar with something like a logitech.


I'm not sure that a Logitech remote would be accurate enough either..



> I didn't think i'd watch much other than scope, but i've recently gone through a few TV series on BD and a lot of the pixar/disney movies are 16:9


I watch all Pixar/Disney movies in 2.35 with the A lens!..


----------



## raZorTT

ah ok

I guess the other thing to consider is would having the curtains there have any affect on my subs? would the frequency be low enough to be transmitted through?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Well, if you're using an AT screen (I think you are from memory) the curtain material weave will need to be open enough not to affect the front speakers, more than the subs..unless your fronts are inside the 16:9 width..


----------



## raZorTT

Yep I have an AT screen :T and the fronts are inside the 16:9 boundary so i'm not worried about them. 

With the VAF sub(s) being so long the woofers would be behind the curtains in 16:9 mode. 

I recall most sound people saying that curtains won't do much acoustically when trying to absorb low frequencies so was thinking it wouldn't have a huge impact.


----------



## Prof.

If you were going to use very heavy velvet curtains, then there might be a problem..
Anything lighter than that, shouldn't have any affect on the lows..
If you have grill cloth over the drivers on your subs, then removing them will help as well..


----------



## raZorTT

thanks prof 

I'll keep it in mind. The sub drivers don't have any grill cloth on them.

This will probably be one of my lower priority projects


----------



## Prof.

The priority on my list was so low that it fell off the bottom! :bigsmile:


----------



## raZorTT

Finally some screen shots!!

Thanks for the guidance on the settings Brad, This is my first "proper" camera :T

Dark Knight 
Kung Fu Panda 
Transformers 2 
5th Element 
Monsters Inc 
Toy Story 
Kung Fu Panda 

Enjoy 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Looks great Simon!

I haven't calibrated my projector yet - simply "reusing" the calibrated settings from the previous owner, figuring they'd get me in the ballpark at least - have you?

Was just wondering whether mine is undersaturated or yours is oversaturated (red in particular)? Or maybe our camera settings?

For example:

yours:










vs. mine:










First noticed looking at your Fifth Element picture, where she has more of a pinkish complexion than mine does.


----------



## raZorTT

I've messed around with the disney WOW disc, but I wouldn't really say it was calibrated.

Looking at the two photos (assuming the camera settings were the same) I think maybe somewhere in between would be right? I'm going to have to go back to that scene in fifth element and see if I noticed the pink watching live.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Simon,

If the projected image looks to be a better colour balance than the screenshots, it may be your white balance on the camera is not set correctly..


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Finally some screen shots!!
> 
> Thanks for the guidance on the settings Brad, This is my first "proper" camera :T
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Showing off that new camera as well as the theater, hey ;-) Very nice.
What are your thoughts on the Camera now you have played with it for a while? I need better camera too and yours is on my short list. Did you mention what lens you are using?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Simon,
> 
> If the projected image looks to be a better colour balance than the screenshots, it may be your white balance on the camera is not set correctly..


Thanks Prof

I'll see if I can suss it out tonight

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Showing off that new camera as well as the theater, hey ;-) Very nice.
> What are your thoughts on the Camera now you have played with it for a while? I need better camera too and yours is on my short list. Did you mention what lens you are using?


Hey Moggie,

I think it is brilliant, but I don't really have anything to compare it with. It's my first SLR camera. I bought the twin lens kit and was using the 18-55mm lS 3.5-5.6 lens for the pics. Based on what i've read most people suggest if you get serious you will probably end up selling the started lenses within 6-12 months. Are you upgrading an SLR? or from a point and shoot?

The 600D was a candidate for me, but it is just a bit smaller than the 60D and wasn't as comfortable to hold. I definitely wanted the articulating screen so I could get right up against the walls when shooting in the theatre 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## chrapladm

Those pictures are amazing. I cant wait to get a projector someday. My family could care less about speakers and subs but they would definitely love to have a a BIG screen to watch.

The details of the images are great in regards to clarity of picture.

We have a 18-200mm lens that we use now that serves about 90% of our photo taking.


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks Papi :T

Well if they get what they want (ie big screen) then it's only fair that you get big sound 

That was pretty much the reason for getting the twin kit, I couldn't decide what focal length to go if I bought just the body so need to actually get out there and take some photos. Hopefully in 6 months or so i'll have a better idea of what I want, and if I need to buy anything different.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## chrapladm

Fisheye lens, 10, 12 or 14mm lens, external flash/mic ect. Another hobby that I have found is also very expensive. I had to stay away from that hobby for a while because I need to pick just one for now. When the money flows a little more(in four years) I will then return to my other hobbies.(Field recording, landscape photo and hd video)


----------



## raZorTT

hehe yeah I seem to have jumped from one expensive hobby to another


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Hey Moggie,
> 
> I think it is brilliant, but I don't really have anything to compare it with. It's my first SLR camera. I bought the twin lens kit and was using the 18-55mm lS 3.5-5.6 lens for the pics. Based on what i've read most people suggest if you get serious you will probably end up selling the started lenses within 6-12 months. Are you upgrading an SLR? or from a point and shoot?
> 
> The 600D was a candidate for me, but it is just a bit smaller than the 60D and wasn't as comfortable to hold. I definitely wanted the articulating screen so I could get right up against the walls when shooting in the theatre
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Thanks. I've never owned an SLR before -- photography has never been that important. Recently, however, I keep finding reasons why I need a more capable camera and I think it's time to bite the bullet. I have friend coming over soon to take some professional shots of my theater so I think I'll use the opportunity to get some lessons and insight.


----------



## chrapladm

D40x would be the best value for ya Moogie. But thats all I am saying for now.

I was amazed at your pics of the projector shots and Monsters Inc. When I saw the individual hairs that was pretty awesome. Makes me need to find a way to finally get a projector.


----------



## Owen Bartley

Thanks a lot Bryan. I've been doing a lot of reading on acoustics lately, and ordered the Master Handbook of Acoustics as well to hopefully get myself up to speed.

_Oops, that was a pretty late reply!_

Moggie, be careful opening the door to SLR, because it will be another place that a lot of your money disappears! Pretty soon the starter lenses won't be good enough so you'll upgrade. Then you'll pick up accessories like tripods and fancy heads, remote triggers and lens filters... then you'll need even better lenses so you'll trade up to L series... and by then your body will be out of date and you'll need to replace that too!  Just be careful is all I'm saying. Or you could chicken out and get a Canon G12 like I did, which has a lot of flexibility and takes great shots, but won't suck my wallet dry.


----------



## chrapladm

Ya but 12mm lenses are so much fun.:spend: And a good quality tripod is always a good investment, I think.


----------



## moggieuk

chrapladm said:


> D40x would be the best value for ya Moogie.


Thanks, I'll take a look (a long look).



Owen Bartley said:


> Moggie, be careful opening the door to SLR, because it will be another place that a lot of your money disappears! Pretty soon the starter lenses won't be good enough so you'll upgrade. Then you'll pick up accessories like tripods and fancy heads, remote triggers and lens filters... then you'll need even better lenses so you'll trade up to L series... and by then your body will be out of date and you'll need to replace that too!  Just be careful is all I'm saying. Or you could chicken out and get a Canon G12 like I did, which has a lot of flexibility and takes great shots, but won't suck my wallet dry.


That is an all to familiar story. I don't think I'm going to rush into it -- I have a friend who started down this path years ago and now has quite of collection of lens and accessories and has offered to take some pics of my theater. I'm inviting him over for dinner.... :bigsmile:


----------



## Owen Bartley

Lol... good luck to you, sir. Really, if you enjoy it, photography is a great hobby. It can become just as consuming as all the others, but that's how it goes. I hope you get something that you're really happy with in the end.


----------



## raZorTT

Howdy,

Thought i'd update people on my latest purchase 

I have a global cache GC-100-12 on the way :T. 

I'm going to hook it up to all my goodies in the equipment cupboard and hopefully be able to control everything with either an iphone or ipad using the irule application 

I'm sort of glad I have been so slow getting the IR repeaters etc installed because now the majority of my stuff can be controlled via network or RS232.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Simon, iRule is pretty cool although it takes a long time to program with the web UI -- about a 8 year set back in UI ease of use onder: I've also hit a bunch of bugs.

I did complete the IR distribution system and have sensors in the main theater and the side closet. It's really nice to be able to use the original remote control for setup activities. I then wanted to automate the whole thing and added an iTach device again as a source for the IR distribution. iRule then connects to this as well as directly via IP to my Integra preamp. Last week I added the iRule feedback capability so I now have the volume control output, source selection and audio mode displayed on the iPad. The iPad is mounted in a RAM-A-CAN II mount in one of the chair cup holders.

The iRule/iPad is a very cool combination but I still keep the remote to my Dune media player handy because I much prefer the tactile feedback when navigating.

If the Global cache also had an IR sensor input then I could have had a much simpler system.

Have you started programming your iRule yet?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Moggie,

That's a good point about the IR system and using the old remotes. I still have the xantech block so i'll make sure to link them together.

that mount is awesome!! I'm definitely getting one of those! Thanks for mentioning it!

I haven't really done anything with iRule yet other than log in and sync it to my iphone. I've been holding off getting an ipad until I got something that I was sure would work as a controller. 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

I am really going to enjoy and benefit watching this come together. IR distro is my next big venture. Perfect timing Simon!


----------



## jackboy

Hi razortt,
Your room is great and I really like reading all about your room. 
Just a quick question what did you cover your acoustic panels with. 
Just in case I missed this while reading do you have any photos of the finished product.


----------



## raZorTT

Dale Rasco said:


> I am really going to enjoy and benefit watching this come together. IR distro is my next big venture. Perfect timing Simon!


Hi Dale,

Hopefully I can get it to behave like I imagine . Are you looking at using iRule? Or more IR and original remotes?

I purchased the pro license for iRule last night. A bit of a pain from Australia, but nothing a US proxy server can't fix  and my gc-100-12 was shipped. Hopefully i'll have it early next week!

Will need to take some time going through the iRule tutorials and how-tos to make sure I get a good grip on how to add my devices and create usable activities, but i'm looking forward to the challenge 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

jackboy said:


> Hi razortt,
> Your room is great and I really like reading all about your room.
> Just a quick question what did you cover your acoustic panels with.
> Just in case I missed this while reading do you have any photos of the finished product.


Thanks jackboy,

Appreciate the kind words 

My walls are covered with black and burgundy GOM. I bought it from bpape here on the forum, he was great to deal with.

I have a couple of photos of it in this post

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## jackboy

Hi Simon,
I live up in Brisbane. This home theater stuff is a good hobby and it's great when your wife agrees with it as well. 
As for the panels did you make timber frames for the batts and cover it with the gom?


----------



## raZorTT

Yep timber frames then gom stapled over the top. If you are thinking of the same make sure you take the corners off the timber especially the inside edge. Had a couple people lean against it and it leaves a slight crease. 

Cheers 
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Time for an update. As I mentioned before I was expecting delivery of a global cache GC-100-12 and a pro license for the iRule application.

So far I have just been fiddling, making sure that I am able to control everything before I spend some serious time designing my control screens.

I have managed to hook up:
-my Yamaha Z7 initially via IR then via RS232 yesterday :T
-PS3 via logitech adapter and IR emitter 
-WDLiveTV Hub via an IR emitter
-Lutron GE QS via hard wired IR emitter 

Next one to try will be the JVC via RS232.

At some stage i'd like to get an Oppo bdp93 and put that in the mix. Seeing as the gc100 only has 2 serial ports (1 amp, 1 projector) is it possible to use a serial splitter to connect it? I just assume which ever other device is connected will just ignore the command, unless it happens to be exactly the same which would seem unlikely.

Unfortunately I can't control my Z7 via network at the moment because iRule doesn't support it. Mind you in the testing I did with RS232 I don't think it matters. It worked flawlessly  :T

Just building the quick test screen using the builder has been fairly easy, but I can see it will take some time and planning to get things up to scratch. 

Here's the quick little screen I setup to test if my lights were working.

I can finally control the scenes remotely :T :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I got the JVC hooked up on the weekend :T

The 50mm conduit I put in the soffit for the video cables was definitely one of my smarter decisions  I was easily able to run my home made serial cable from the cupboard to the projector. It took me 30 mins to build a quick little screen and add a few extra Hex codes that weren't part of the JVC device in the iRule library so I could change the vertical stretch for the crystalMorphic 

The danger with all this automation is I now want a cineslide to really put the icing on the cake  :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon...
Unless you plan on watching a lot of 16:9 media, I wouldn't bother with a Cineslide..It's a lot of money for very limited use..and with your JVC and Crystalmorphic combo, the increase in pixel size will be hardly noticed!


----------



## raZorTT

Yeah I know it'd just look really cool :R

I think motorised masking curtains would be a "better" investment :T


----------



## Prof.

Definitely...My ideal set up would be a dual motorised curtain system where you would have a remotely controlled dress curtain that covers the whole screen and a masking system behind it..so that with the press of a button the main curtain would open right up and at the same time the masking curtain would move to a pre-set position..
All of that would probably cost you less than a Cineslide!! :bigsmile:


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> Here's the quick little screen I setup to test if my lights were working.


Nice job Simon, but time to dig out photoshop and give those scene buttons some proper names... ;-)


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Nice job Simon, but time to dig out photoshop and give those scene buttons some proper names... ;-)


Thanks Moggie 

Here's my current lighting panel . I've also started playing with entrances and macros which have worked really well so far (touch wood) :T

Seeing as there wasn't anything from Apple about a new ipad yesterday I'll probably grab myself a 16GB ipad 2 next week and start building the UI for that 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Definitely...My ideal set up would be a dual motorised curtain system where you would have a remotely controlled dress curtain that covers the whole screen and a masking system behind it..so that with the press of a button the main curtain would open right up and at the same time the masking curtain would move to a pre-set position..
> All of that would probably cost you less than a Cineslide!! :bigsmile:


I definitely like that idea Prof!

I was looking at a couple links I saved a few months ago and came across one I think you posted from envioustechnology. 

While hunting through threads and following links I think I might have found the Chinese supplier for envious 
curtain rod

Not much cheaper if you are buying 5 or 6m, but a good saving if you only wanted 2 or 3m for the masking curtain/panel :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

Ok, so you cheated on the button names :bigsmile: I really like the new metal template. I think I'll use this if I ever find time to build a iPhone interface.

I'm almost done building my iPad interface. I decided to upgrade to the pro version of iRule so I have feedback. I managed to get hold of the command set for my AVR and now have some of the more esoteric feedback integrated into the controller. For example, I have an 'advanced audio' screen which shows the status of audio processing like Re-EQ together with discrete on/off buttons. There is little practical use to this other than for fun tinkering. If only iRule allowed feedback to control the displayed image... that would allow for a cool UI. I'm currently working on a huge several minute macro to control the "opening sequence" -- timing is proving to be a little tricky but the idea is to start with dimming of lights, playing of spooled music track, backlighting the screen, switching to movie light scene, then finally queuing the movie from my media player.
I warn you, this iRule thing is a big time sink.

Do it, pick up an iPad!

Cheers!


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Ok, so you cheated on the button names :bigsmile: I really like the new metal template. I think I'll use this if I ever find time to build a iPhone interface.
> 
> I'm almost done building my iPad interface. I decided to upgrade to the pro version of iRule so I have feedback. I managed to get hold of the command set for my AVR and now have some of the more esoteric feedback integrated into the controller. For example, I have an 'advanced audio' screen which shows the status of audio processing like Re-EQ together with discrete on/off buttons. There is little practical use to this other than for fun tinkering. If only iRule allowed feedback to control the displayed image... that would allow for a cool UI. I'm currently working on a huge several minute macro to control the "opening sequence" -- timing is proving to be a little tricky but the idea is to start with dimming of lights, playing of spooled music track, backlighting the screen, switching to movie light scene, then finally queuing the movie from my media player.
> I warn you, this iRule thing is a big time sink.
> 
> Do it, pick up an iPad!
> 
> Cheers!


Yeah I figured I should put a bit of time into building an iphone interface so that my wife can operate it with her phone if I have taken the ipad to work with me 

I haven't tried any feedbacks yet. I need to go through their tutorials to find out how they work. Using the global cache iTest application I have been able to see some stuff coming back from my AVR though 

An opening sequence like that sounds awesome! You definitely have to put a video up when you get it up and running!  Have you hooked up your masking system using IR? 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> An opening sequence like that sounds awesome! You definitely have to put a video up when you get it up and running!  Have you hooked up your masking system using IR?


Will do. Yes the masking system is hooked up. If only I could auto-detect what the aspect ratio is and configure a-lens, masks and anamorphic mode automatically ... got it down to one button, but no button's sounds better don't you think? I bet iRule will add triggers at some point, and then perhaps a couple of light sensors behind the screen..


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> Will do. Yes the masking system is hooked up. If only I could auto-detect what the aspect ratio is and configure a-lens, masks and anamorphic mode automatically ... got it down to one button, but no button's sounds better don't you think? I bet iRule will add triggers at some point, and then perhaps a couple of light sensors behind the screen..


No buttons would be great! I thought I read in the global cache documentation that you could use an IR port for a sensor?? 

I just looked on the global cache site and they have the GC-SP1 to monitor voltage and the GC-SC1 to monitor a contact (be pretty useful to turn on lights when you open the HT door perhaps?)

Maybe the iRule software doesn't support it yet?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I definitely like that idea Prof!
> 
> I was looking at a couple links I saved a few months ago and came across one I think you posted from envioustechnology.
> 
> While hunting through threads and following links I think I might have found the Chinese supplier for envious
> curtain rod
> 
> Not much cheaper if you are buying 5 or 6m, but a good saving if you only wanted 2 or 3m for the masking curtain/panel :T
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Yes..that's the one, but I don't think it will do pre-set stop positions..
If it doesn't, you could probably rig up some sort of micro switch to cut the motor when the mask reaches a certain position..
There maybe even some micro switch system available that will do that..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Yes..that's the one, but I don't think it will do pre-set stop positions..
> If it doesn't, you could probably rig up some sort of micro switch to cut the motor when the mask reaches a certain position..
> There maybe even some micro switch system available that will do that..


If I went a dual curtain setup I'm not sure that I would need any pre set stops.

The inside track would be used for masking, it would be fully open for scope material and closed to mask a 16:9 image. The outside curtain would be open to watch anything and closed to cover the whole screen.

dual track masking/curtain 

Is that what you were thinking for your setup?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yes..that's the idea..But as you can see, the masking curtain needs to be opened right up for 2.35:1 viewing and moved in again for 16:9 viewing..That's when you need to have a pre-set position so the mask automatically stops at the 16:9 position again..
As far as I'm aware, those motorised curtain controllers can only be stopped manually..

The other thing is..ideally, you need to be able to press the 16:9 button on the projector remote or programmed remote (or as in the case of an A lens the 4:3 button) to have the masking position set.. which may occur prior to the dress curtain opening right up..In which case you won't be able to judge when to stop the masking curtain because it will still be behind the front curtain..Hence the reason for the micro switch..
Of course you could always just open the front curtain right up before making the masking adjustment..but that doesn't quite give that theatre effect!

It's basically what happens in your local theatre..It might have changed because I've forgotten the last time I went to the Multiplex cinema! ..
After the adds,(usually 16:9 AR) they would close the front curtain again and at that time, the masking system would adjust to the 2.35:1 AR behind the front curtain..Then the front curtain opens up to reveal the full width screen..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Yes..that's the idea..But as you can see, the masking curtain needs to be opened right up for 2.35:1 viewing and moved in again for 16:9 viewing..That's when you need to have a pre-set position so the mask automatically stops at the 16:9 position again..
> As far as I'm aware, those motorised curtain controllers can only be stopped manually..
> 
> The other thing is..ideally, you need to be able to press the 16:9 button on the projector remote or programmed remote (or as in the case of an A lens the 4:3 button) to have the masking position set.. which may occur prior to the dress curtain opening right up..In which case you won't be able to judge when to stop the masking curtain because it will still be behind the front curtain..Hence the reason for the micro switch..
> Of course you could always just open the front curtain right up before making the masking adjustment..but that doesn't quite give that theatre effect!
> 
> It's basically what happens in your local theatre..It might have changed because I've forgotten the last time I went to the Multiplex cinema! ..
> After the adds,(usually 16:9 AR) they would close the front curtain again and at that time, the masking system would adjust to the 2.35:1 AR behind the front curtain..Then the front curtain opens up to reveal the full width screen..


Hey Prof

For the masking curtain I was just thinking that the stop/end would be positioned at the 16:9 position so that you wouldn't need to worry about trying to time it or add micro switches. Granted it may mean positioning of the track will initially need to be adjusted or i'd need to add a stop into the track, but after that the masking curtain is open for scope and closed for 16:9. :T

My local cinema must be power concious, the last couple times I have been they haven't even bothered to mask the ads! It's definitely been a while since I saw them close the curtains completely before the main feature. :sad:

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

If you can set the closing curtain to stop at the 16:9 position, then that would be ideal, but I'm not sure if you can do that..
Looking at the features of this motorised track system, it's mentions this..

"Contact closure control for integrated systems. Requires simple modification."

That may mean that you can adjust the stop position for whatever opening you require..:scratch:
If that's the case then you've got it made..
And then there's this..

" Can also stop at any intermediate position."

But as understand it, you can only manually do that with the remote, by stopping the motor..
You probably need to speak to them about all that, just to clarify..


----------



## raZorTT

Well I picked up an ipad 2 on the weekend  :T

I've already made a pretty decent dent in the ipad panels for irule.

I have a few more codes to input for my yamaha Z7 AVR and then I need to try and work out how to get feedback working. Looks like it may be a bit more complicated than the irule tutorial seems.

PS3 Panel 

:T :T :T

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Prof.

I jumped on to the envious technology site this morning and saw that the curtain track was $220. I could have sworn it was $330 when we were talking about it a couple of weeks ago. I didn't actually note the price down. Can you remember what it was?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

I seem to remember them being around the $300 mark also! :scratch: At $220 it males for a much better proposition..:T
There's a guy on ebay that's selling them for $340, so that sounds like you might be right about the price drop..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> I seem to remember them being around the $300 mark also! :scratch: At $220 it males for a much better proposition..:T
> There's a guy on ebay that's selling them for $340, so that sounds like you might be right about the price drop..


Hey prof

Don't suppose in your travels you have come across any places that sell curtain fringing? I was thinking of black curtains with a black (maybe burgundy) fringe along the bottom

Cheers
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

I think I found some  needed to search for fringing instead of fringe 

http://stores.ebay.com.au/The-Linen-Bin/_i.html?_nkw=Fringing&submit=Search&_sid=686419603


----------



## Prof.

Can't say I have Simon..I would have thought Spotlight would have that sort of thing..


----------



## ALMFamily

In the past few days, I looked at the number of pages on your build thread and thought "oh,I just can't read that much!" 

Today, I decided to sit and read the entire thread. It took me pretty much all day :yikes:, but boy was it worth every second.

What an amazing room you created - kudos to you and your dad on fantastic work. :clap:

For myself, I am very appreciative of the level of detail - pictures and text - you provided throughout the entire process - there were several instances throughout the read where I said "so that's how you would do that" or "what a great idea!".

Thanks for the great thread and I sure hope my room turns out half as good as yours....... :T:T

Joe


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> In the past few days, I looked at the number of pages on your build thread and thought "oh,I just can't read that much!"
> 
> Today, I decided to sit and read the entire thread. It took me pretty much all day :yikes:, but boy was it worth every second.
> 
> What an amazing room you created - kudos to you and your dad on fantastic work. :clap:
> 
> For myself, I am very appreciative of the level of detail - pictures and text - you provided throughout the entire process - there were several instances throughout the read where I said "so that's how you would do that" or "what a great idea!".
> 
> Thanks for the great thread and I sure hope my room turns out half as good as yours....... :T:T
> 
> Joe


Thanks for the kind words Joe! :T

I'm glad the photos and descriptions are of help. The number of times I stopped my dad from doing something so I could run in and grab the camera . At least he got a chuckle out of it :bigsmile:

I look forward to following along with your build thread! :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

Simon,

Now that the starry sky has been up a while, are you glad you went with velvet instead of paint? I am just wondering if it has made any accoustical or aesthetic differences that you have noticed. I really like the idea of doing velvet, but I wanted to get your take on it now that it has been up a while.

Thanks!

Joe


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> Simon,
> 
> Now that the starry sky has been up a while, are you glad you went with velvet instead of paint? I am just wondering if it has made any accoustical or aesthetic differences that you have noticed. I really like the idea of doing velvet, but I wanted to get your take on it now that it has been up a while.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Joe


Hey Joe,

Yeah i'm really glad I went with the velvet, it does an amazing job at absorbing light. I think if I had painted it there would have been a chance that closer to the screen it would reflect some light when the projector is on.

As for the acoustic impact, i'm not really sure. It was suggested that it might absorb some of the high frequencies, but hopefully the faced insulation on the rear wall would make up for it. I haven't had the chance to take proper measurements with REW yet.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

Simon,

If you don't mind,I have a couple questions for you. :whistling:

1. Why did you decide on the Grafik Eye QS as opposed to say the 3000 series with 6 zones?
2. Are you using one remote to control all your AV equipment and lights? If so, are you able to create events such as all lights dim, AV equipment comes on, step rope lights come on, etc.?
3. Did you use IC rated lights or non-IC rated lights? Are they low voltage or line voltage? Did you need to build backer boxes for soundproofing? 

Hope you are enjoying the room! :T

Joe


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> Simon,
> 
> If you don't mind,I have a couple questions for you. :whistling:
> 
> 1. Why did you decide on the Grafik Eye QS as opposed to say the 3000 series with 6 zones?
> 2. Are you using one remote to control all your AV equipment and lights? If so, are you able to create events such as all lights dim, AV equipment comes on, step rope lights come on, etc.?
> 3. Did you use IC rated lights or non-IC rated lights? Are they low voltage or line voltage? Did you need to build backer boxes for soundproofing?
> 
> Hope you are enjoying the room! :T
> 
> Joe


Hey Joe,

No problems :T

1. I ended up choosing the GE QS because it has a hardwired input for an IR repeater, so I have a cat6 cable running from the lutron to my global cache
2. I am now using an iPad with the iRule app installed on it to control everything in the room using the global cache 100-12. It will let you create macros that turn on all the right equipment, set inputs, select a scene on the lutron. You pretty much have complete control.
3. My downlights are non-IC rated. I left about 150mm (6-7") of air all around each one. The lights themselves run off 12V transformers. I didn't worry about backer boxes for them because my soffit was constructed after the main room was gyprocked (drywalled) so they don't protrude into a cavity.

I sure am 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

Simon,

Two reasons for this post:

1. Any updates on the masking project? I am seriously considering going with 2.35:1 as well.
2. This thread needs to stay on the first page! :T

Joe


----------



## raZorTT

Haha thanks Joe :T

It's going slowly  I have been spending the last few weekends landscaping the front yard....

I do however have the motorised curtain tracks. They look like they should be pretty easy to put together and install. 
I bought some black velvet curtains off eBay that are just a fraction shorter than what I wanted but I am going to make up for it by getting some black or burgandy fringe and get it sewn to the bottom (hopefully my mum or sister will help out )

The distance from side to side is 4.8m. The curtains I got can cover 6.4m if you don't put any pleats in them, but I definitely want pleats to make it look more luxurious. What I may have to do is buy another set of curtains and get them sewn together, but I'll get one up before I decide that

Hopefully I can make some progress before Xmas but the opportunities are getting less and less 

Cheers
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hi Simon,

Where did you finish up getting your tracks from and did you work out how to do the auto stop positions?

BTW..I finished up buying the rope light from BigW..It can't be cut though, but it should be OK..


----------



## ALMFamily

I have question for you as well Simon - how did you wire your rope lights and star ceiling into your QS? Did you wire an outlet in and then plug those into the outlet?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hi Simon,
> 
> Where did you finish up getting your tracks from and did you work out how to do the auto stop positions?
> 
> BTW..I finished up buying the rope light from BigW..It can't be cut though, but it should be OK..


Hey prof

I ended up buying them from envious. The ones they sell have tracks for 6.2m and you can cut to any size. 

They won't do auto stop positions but they can be stopped using the remote. I will be able to program in the delays needed using irule 

Mine from big w didn't say anything about cutting but when I looked closely I noticed the wires joined every meter or so. I had a spare rope light so cut about the last meter off and it still worked . After that I cut to size and siliconed on the end cap

Cheers
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> I have question for you as well Simon - how did you wire your rope lights and star ceiling into your QS? Did you wire an outlet in and then plug those into the outlet?


Hey Joe

Yep that's exactly what I did. There is a power point up in my soffit that my star ceiling power supply and rope light are plugged into

Cheers
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Hey prof
> 
> I ended up buying them from envious. The ones they sell have tracks for 6.2m and you can cut to any size.
> 
> They won't do auto stop positions but they can be stopped using the remote. I will be able to program in the delays needed using irule


Good one..:T



> Mine from big w didn't say anything about cutting but when I looked closely I noticed the wires joined every meter or so. I had a spare rope light so cut about the last meter off and it still worked . After that I cut to size and siliconed on the end cap


I haven't had a close look at this rope light yet, as I'm leaving it coiled up until I'm ready to use it, but it may not be the same as yours..
They're being sold as christmas LED rope lights so I'm guessing they would be pretty basic..


----------



## raZorTT

They might still be the same.. I bought all of mine at Christmas, they came in a red box. The only difference might be that you got LED. Mine were all incandescent.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Yeah..that's the one in the red box..They did have two types though, the box just marked "rope light" I presume would be the incandescent type and the other was the LED rope light..
I guess if you were able to cut your rope, I should be able to cut the LED type..
Thanks Simon..


----------



## raZorTT

Fingers crossed :T

Just look really closely for a small wire tat connects the main two every meter or so


----------



## Prof.

Will do..thanks.:T


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Hey Joe
> 
> Yep that's exactly what I did. There is a power point up in my soffit that my star ceiling power supply and rope light are plugged into
> 
> Cheers
> Simon


I did the same, and FWIW, the building inspector was fine with it. I had heard some mention that you couldn't put an outlet on a dimmer, etc., but at least this guy didn't mind.


----------



## ALMFamily

fitzwaddle said:


> I did the same, and FWIW, the building inspector was fine with it. I had heard some mention that you couldn't put an outlet on a dimmer, etc., but at least this guy didn't mind.


Awesome - thanks guys! :clap:


----------



## ALMFamily

Hey!! Just checking in to see how things are going!

Quick question for you Simon - did you find a place that provided good info for learning iRule or did you just have to tinker with it?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Joe,

I just got back from a trip to Europe, so things have been pretty quiet in the theatre since just before xmas.

I found the tutorials on the irule website were good enough to get me up and running.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Hey Simon,

Did you make any progress on the RC curtains/masks before your trip?


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Hey Simon,
> 
> Did you make any progress on the RC curtains/masks before your trip?


Hey Prof,

 No unfortunately I had too much stuff to get organised at work and around the house before the trip 

What's have you been up to? Put the Xmas break to good use in the HT? How's the new light been going?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

I certainly did put the Xmas period to good use..I pulled down my theatre!!  Well not exactly..
I'm doing a remodel and I've taken down the ceiling tray and lights ..and the sidewall lighting trays have come down as well..All the Halogen lights will be replaced with dimmable LED bulbs..

The other thing that came down was my new ceiling light!! As I was trying to adjust the height of it, it became unhooked without me realising and crashed to the ground!! :hissyfit: The acrylic broke and the casing broke off at one end..
I wasn't overly disappointed because the LED strips were starting to become unstuck and hanging down and the wire connectors kept losing contact..

Since then I've made a new ceiling light (screwed to the ceiling this time) longer and narrower and I'm using LED tubes to light it instead..

I will be starting a new thread today, explaining what I'm planning to do with the re modelling..


----------



## ALMFamily

Thanks Simon - hope you had a wonderful trip!!

And Prof, I expect LOADS of pictures!!! :bigsmile:


----------



## Prof.

There will be!


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> There will be!


Shame about the light.. Hopefully you weren't under it 

Looking forward to following along! :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

A friend of mine gave me an apple TV 2 yesterday after I had mentioned that I had heard you could jailbreak them and install XBMC.

I used to have a modded xbox with XBMC install and I absolutely loved it. Really the only thing that stopped me using it was the fact that it didn't quite have enough grunt for HD material 

Anyway last night I jailbroke the ATV2 and installed XBMC. I love the UI! Especially the fanart and banners that it downloads for your TV shows.

XBMC will only really be for playing mkv (720P) content so the fact that the ATV2 outputs only as high as 720P isn't a huge concern. It will decode 1080P material but then down mixes it to be output at the native 720P

It only took me 30 mins to jailbreak and get XBMC installed and running. I'd recommend anyone looking for a user friendly and cheap option for playing downloaded content. $105 I think at the moment with sales a JB hifi!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

You know, that's great - grats and all, but where are we at with that curtain and masking system?! :bigsmile:

All kidding aside, very nice - grats mate! :clap:

I wonder if that would be an easier solution than my hooking up a portable USB memory thingy (the name escapes me atm) to my 42" TV to display posters..... more research! :reading:


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> A friend of mine gave me an apple TV 2 yesterday after I had mentioned that I had heard you could jailbreak them and install XBMC.
> 
> I used to have a modded xbox with XBMC install and I absolutely loved it. Really the only thing that stopped me using it was the fact that it didn't quite have enough grunt for HD material
> 
> Anyway last night I jailbroke the ATV2 and installed XBMC. I love the UI! Especially the fanart and banners that it downloads for your TV shows.
> 
> XBMC will only really be for playing mkv (720P) content so the fact that the ATV2 outputs only as high as 720P isn't a huge concern. It will decode 1080P material but then down mixes it to be output at the native 720P
> 
> It only took me 30 mins to jailbreak and get XBMC installed and running. I'd recommend anyone looking for a user friendly and cheap option for playing downloaded content. $105 I think at the moment with sales a JB hifi!
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


:huh: You lost me at apple tv 2!!! :scratch: I have no idea what you just said! :rofl: lddude: You're way out of my league on this latest stuff Simon..I'm still trying to work out what an Ipad does!! 

Getting back to my world..Has there been any progress on the motorised curtains, or are you still catching up after your overseas trip!?


----------



## moggieuk

raZorTT said:


> A friend of mine gave me an apple TV 2 yesterday after I had mentioned that I had heard you could jailbreak them and install XBMC.
> 
> I used to have a modded xbox with XBMC install and I absolutely loved it. Really the only thing that stopped me using it was the fact that it didn't quite have enough grunt for HD material
> 
> Anyway last night I jailbroke the ATV2 and installed XBMC. I love the UI! Especially the fanart and banners that it downloads for your TV shows.
> 
> XBMC will only really be for playing mkv (720P) content so the fact that the ATV2 outputs only as high as 720P isn't a huge concern. It will decode 1080P material but then down mixes it to be output at the native 720P
> 
> It only took me 30 mins to jailbreak and get XBMC installed and running. I'd recommend anyone looking for a user friendly and cheap option for playing downloaded content. $105 I think at the moment with sales a JB hifi!
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


You just gave me an idea ... I have an old apple TV lying around that is never used. If I jailbreak and mount my movie library from my NAS then use as a cheap streaming solution for the bedroom. I presume XBMC handles all the latest codecs for Dolby TrueHD? What about down mixing to 2 channel -- all my rips are in 1080p and highest resolution audio.


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> You know, that's great - grats and all, but where are we at with that curtain and masking system?! :bigsmile:
> 
> Getting back to my world..Has there been any progress on the motorised curtains, or are you still catching up after your overseas trip!?


Thanks for the "motivation" guys  :T

This morning I opened up the curtain track and had a look at all the bits and pieces. I wasn't confident about going straight into the HT and drilling into my lovely painted soffit  

I grabbed a piece of framing to do a test run. Assembly of the track is pretty simple. You cut the lengths of track to size (I used two of the six for the test). Loosen a couple of screws so that you can insert the extra track pieces and lengthen the cable that sits inside the tracks. Once you get the tracks in place you tighten up the cable. Click in the motor and you're pretty much done.

track join 
test bed 
track motor 

I hooked up power and using the manual remote was able to open, close and stop. There is a small nut at the end near the motor to give that little bit of extra tension to the cord in the tracks so that the motor stops when it gets to the open or close position. If it isn't quite tight enough the motor slips and keeps running. Once tight it stops as soon as it gets to position.

I have to head out for lunch, but i'm going to open up the curtains I have to see how it works with some weight :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> I wonder if that would be an easier solution than my hooking up a portable USB memory thingy (the name escapes me atm) to my 42" TV to display posters..... more research! :reading:


Hey Joe,

It might be a good option. You could potentially just manage a folder on your network and have the ATV/XBMC just slideshow that. Then you don't have to worry about copying files on and off. 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

moggieuk said:


> You just gave me an idea ... I have an old apple TV lying around that is never used. If I jailbreak and mount my movie library from my NAS then use as a cheap streaming solution for the bedroom. I presume XBMC handles all the latest codecs for Dolby TrueHD? What about down mixing to 2 channel -- all my rips are in 1080p and highest resolution audio.


Hey Moggie,

I'm not sure about the HD audio. Unfortunately the rips I have have all been down mixed to DD or DTS. Does your TV have optical in? the ATV that I have has optical out.

Just saw there is a thread on AVS

Also I hooked it up to iRule with no problems, it works like a charm 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

raZorTT said:


> Thanks for the "motivation" guys  :T
> 
> This morning I opened up the curtain track and had a look at all the bits and pieces. I wasn't confident about going straight into the HT and drilling into my lovely painted soffit
> 
> I grabbed a piece of framing to do a test run. Assembly of the track is pretty simple. You cut the lengths of track to size (I used two of the six for the test). Loosen a couple of screws so that you can insert the extra track pieces and lengthen the cable that sits inside the tracks. Once you get the tracks in place you tighten up the cable. Click in the motor and you're pretty much done.
> 
> track join
> test bed
> track motor
> 
> I hooked up power and using the manual remote was able to open, close and stop. There is a small nut at the end near the motor to give that little bit of extra tension to the cord in the tracks so that the motor stops when it gets to the open or close position. If it isn't quite tight enough the motor slips and keeps running. Once tight it stops as soon as it gets to position.
> 
> I have to head out for lunch, but i'm going to open up the curtains I have to see how it works with some weight :T
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Looking good - can't wait to hear how it goes with the curtain!



raZorTT said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> It might be a good option. You could potentially just manage a folder on your network and have the ATV/XBMC just slideshow that. Then you don't have to worry about copying files on and off.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Oh man, as if I did not have enough to do already! :bigsmile: Setting up a network computer and getting it all tied in will be a project unto itself. Probably worth it in the end though.....


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Thanks for the "motivation" guys  :T
> 
> This morning I opened up the curtain track and had a look at all the bits and pieces. I wasn't confident about going straight into the HT and drilling into my lovely painted soffit
> 
> I grabbed a piece of framing to do a test run. Assembly of the track is pretty simple. You cut the lengths of track to size (I used two of the six for the test). Loosen a couple of screws so that you can insert the extra track pieces and lengthen the cable that sits inside the tracks. Once you get the tracks in place you tighten up the cable. Click in the motor and you're pretty much done.
> 
> track join
> test bed
> track motor
> 
> I hooked up power and using the manual remote was able to open, close and stop. There is a small nut at the end near the motor to give that little bit of extra tension to the cord in the tracks so that the motor stops when it gets to the open or close position. If it isn't quite tight enough the motor slips and keeps running. Once tight it stops as soon as it gets to position.
> 
> I have to head out for lunch, but i'm going to open up the curtains I have to see how it works with some weight :T
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Setting it up on a test bed first was a good idea..:T At least you've been able to sort out any bugs before installing it..
Interested to hear how the curtains go..


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## dannyandmal

Thanks for showing so much of your build, can't wait to see the curtains.


----------



## raZorTT

Thanks guys :T

I didn't get around to testing the curtains unfortunately. I didn't have anywhere inside (other than the HT) high enough and I didn't really want to drag them out into my very dirty garage 

The main reason for me wanting to test them out is to see how far away from the screen wall I am going to need to mount the track. I don't want the curtains to be rubbing against the screen. I guess it will probably depend on how far apart I put pleats?

I was thinking about what I might use for the masking panels this morning. What do you guys think about using foam core/gator board wrapped in GOM and or velvet? I figure this would be a very light solution but still be nice and rigid. Or maybe I should just get another black velvet curtain and sew some weight into the bottom so it is nice and straight?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I was thinking about what I might use for the masking panels this morning. What do you guys think about using foam core/gator board wrapped in GOM and or velvet? I figure this would be a very light solution but still be nice and rigid. Or maybe I should just get another black velvet curtain and sew some weight into the bottom so it is nice and straight?


The Foamboard should work well..
If you prefer to have the masking to have that curtain look, then what some guys have done is to stitch in a flat strip of timber or Alum. into the edge of the curtain..This gives a nice straight edge without adding a lot of weight..


----------



## ALMFamily

Simon,

OK, maybe I am not quite understanding - Are you planning on using your curtains as a masking system? Or, once the curtains are up and functional, you are then making your masking system?

Joe


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## Prof.

Joe..Simon is using 2 motorized curtain tracks.. one behind the other..
The front one is for the opening dress curtain..and the one behind will be for the masking curtain..


----------



## raZorTT

Prof. said:


> Joe..Simon is using 2 motorized curtain tracks.. one behind the other..
> The front one is for the opening dress curtain..and the one behind will be for the masking curtain..


Thanks Prof :T

Joe, my concerns originally were that if I were to just use a curtain for masking it may sit too far away from the screen material and would potentially create a shadow or small black bars on the edge of the picture. So the theory is I will try to put something like the foamcore wrapped panel closer to the screen. 

I might put the outer curtain up first to see if there is any need for something closer.

Do you guys think a pelmet covered in fidellio velvet would look good? Not sure if I want one or not :scratch:

Cheers,
Simon


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## ALMFamily

Neat idea! I think it would look good - cover your tracks, etc. but be dark enough that it does not stand out. I like it! 

Thanks Prof - I guess I missed that in an earlier post.


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> Thanks Prof :T
> 
> Joe, my concerns originally were that if I were to just use a curtain for masking it may sit too far away from the screen material and would potentially create a shadow or small black bars on the edge of the picture. So the theory is I will try to put something like the foamcore wrapped panel closer to the screen.


That's a good point Simon...The curtain folds would put the masking a few inches off the screen..
With the foamcore, you could get it quite close to the screen..Probably the best way to go.. 



> Do you guys think a pelmet covered in fidellio velvet would look good? Not sure if I want one or not :scratch:


I think a pelmet is almost a must..It will hide your track system and those horrible little hooks they use to hold up the curtain..
You could also cover it with a scalloped valence..to make it more theatre like..


----------



## raZorTT

I decided to try the curtains out in the garage this morning. I screwed my little test bed to the roof trusses and set about adding the hooks to the curtains. I'm cheating and using the 4 prong pleat hooks :T

I tried a few different options with the hooks and I am 95% sure I need to order another set of curtains and get them sewn together. The ones I have would just cover the front, but the pleats/folds wouldn't be terribly deep. I think the depth in the folds is what gives theatre curtains the elegant look. Hopefully I can get a set exactly the same. 

I hung the curtains up and thankfully had about 50mm from the floor, so they weren't rubbing along the dirty concrete. A few pics below. 

Curtains closed 
Curtains open 
Curtain hooks 

As you can see a pelmet is a must. I originally thought maybe the curtains would cover the track, but they hang about 10mm below. With a little luck I can get started on installing the track next weekend :T:T

Cheers,
Simon


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## ALMFamily

Good to hear from you! Boy, you are not kidding - pelmet is a definite must. 

Nice looking curtains - are they velvet? They look to have a sheen.......


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Joe,

Yeah they are a black velvet. The sheen looks worse in the photos cause the flash popped up. 

Now I need to keep my eyes peeled for a burgundy or black rope fringe to sew on to the bottom :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> I tried a few different options with the hooks and I am 95% sure I need to order another set of curtains and get them sewn together. The ones I have would just cover the front, but the pleats/folds wouldn't be terribly deep. I think the depth in the folds is what gives theatre curtains the elegant look. Hopefully I can get a set exactly the same.


Yeah..the deeper and closer the folds, the better it looks..but it means more curtain width to get the effect when the curtains are closed..


----------



## raZorTT

I've emailed the lady I bought the first set off. Fingers crossed she still has more sets :T


----------



## ALMFamily

Make sure to ask her if she ships international! :bigsmile:

Hope she has what you are looking for... raying:


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## ALMFamily

Hey Simon!

Just wanted to check in to see how things are going, bump to get this back on the first page , and see if you made any progress with the curtains.

Hope all is going well!

Joe


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Joe,

Thanks for the bump. Unfortunately not much has happened 

I did get the second set of curtains though, and have lined my mum up to sew them together so I should be able to get some nice deep pleats in them even when fully closed.

The weather is starting to cool down now, so it won't be long before i'm "forced" to do indoor jobs 

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

Hey Simon.

Is the theatre still going well overall? Are you getting to see many movies?
I'm currently re-watching all my movies on the new projector! Some are outstandingly better with the improvement in visual quality..but others don't look all that much better! :huh:
I read sometime ago that 1080p can really show up poor quality production in blu-rays..and I tend to agree


----------



## raZorTT

Hi Prof,

Yeah the theatre is going great! Been watching movies consistently and had a heap of people over last weekend and was playing the buzz quiz game on the PS3. Was just like a real game show with buzzers and all 

Yeah you can really see the stand out transfers from the not so good ones :-\


----------



## ALMFamily

Simon - you really need to put some pictures of your room up on the first page! I keep coming back looking for ideas and I have to page through 90ish pages looking for them. 

Hope all is going well mate!


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Joe,

Probably a good idea :T

If you are just after some pics jump in to my construction gallery. http://www.hometheatershack.com/gallery/index.php?c=31

Cheers,
Simon


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## ALMFamily

Nice - thanks Simon!


----------



## Sonnie

Hey Simon...

Have you thought about a thread in our Home Theater Room Photos forum?


----------



## raZorTT

Hi Sonnie,

Thanks for the link to the forum. I'll have to get some decent pictures first!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

Great to hear from you Simon! How are things going?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Joe,

Things are great.

Been really busy at work, so haven't had as much time as I would like to keep up with builds on the forum :-\. 

Still enjoying the HT though :T

I still have those last 1% things to finish off, but when I go in I find I watch a movie instead :heehee:

Cheers,
Simon


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## ALMFamily

I can imagine it would be hard to do anything else n your great space other than watch a movie!

Did you get iRule all set to go?


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Joe,

Yep iRule is all hooked up and working beautifully! 

I actually bought another controller for the TV/soundbar in the family room I like it that much :T

Have you decided what you are going to use in your room?

Simon


----------



## Prof.

> I still have those last 1% things to finish off, but when I go in I find I watch a movie instead :heehee:


It took me 6 months to finish off that 1%!!  Good to hear from you Simon..


----------



## ALMFamily

raZorTT said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> Yep iRule is all hooked up and working beautifully!
> 
> I actually bought another controller for the TV/soundbar in the family room I like it that much :T
> 
> Have you decided what you are going to use in your room?
> 
> Simon


As of right now, I am also thinking iRule. Are there any glitches to it that you have found, or is it everything you feel you need?


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> As of right now, I am also thinking iRule. Are there any glitches to it that you have found, or is it everything you feel you need?


Hey Joe,

I haven't come across any issues with it so far and I have a mix of IP, serial and IR components. 

I have also managed to get the feedback running so I can see things like amp volume the chapter and current time of the oppo. You have to be using serial or IP for feedback though.

Are you looking to just control AV gear or are you hoping to hook up lighting too?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

raZorTT said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> I haven't come across any issues with it so far and I have a mix of IP, serial and IR components.
> 
> I have also managed to get the feedback running so I can see things like amp volume the chapter and current time of the oppo. You have to be using serial or IP for feedback though.
> 
> Are you looking to just control AV gear or are you hoping to hook up lighting too?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


I am hoping to hook up the lighting too. I ran cat6 and used the 2 orange wires to make a plug for one of the serial inputs - I think that is what you did as well IIRC.

Feedback sounds interesting - any chance you have a photo of what you mean?


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> Feedback sounds interesting - any chance you have a photo of what you mean?


Hey Joe,

I didn't see your response till I got to work, but if you look at this link from the irule website you can see the volume and track time.

It can be a little fiddly to get working, especially if your components aren't in the iRule library already.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

raZorTT said:


> Hey Joe,
> 
> I didn't see your response till I got to work, but if you look at this link from the irule website you can see the volume and track time.
> 
> It can be a little fiddly to get working, especially if your components aren't in the iRule library already.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Did you purchase the "learning" tool that helps the GC learn all the codes that it does not have already?


----------



## raZorTT

ALMFamily said:


> Did you purchase the "learning" tool that helps the GC learn all the codes that it does not have already?


Hey Joe,

No I didn't bother, I signed up for the iRule demo before buying the hardware and all of the components that I had were already in the library. A friend of mine bought one, and then found out that the itach IR already has a learner built in.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

Simon,

I checked out the feedback functionality - that looks really cool! Definitely going to try to incorporate that where I can. I also re-read through the site - it appears to me that if you use the Pro version, you can share screens with other users. Is this what you understand as well? If so, have you tried to do it at all?

Oh, and I said long ago I wanted to have as long a thread as you have - I need to stop posting here so I can catch up! :bigsmile::rofl2:


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Joe,

I've had a look through a few screens that were in the library, mainly to find a couple icons that I couldn't be bothered making myself 

lol you're 2/3 of the way there :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## wraunch

Simon did you use any wallstations as well with your GE? I already bought to GC-100s to control the GE or whatever I use for zone control with iRule. Here is a link to my thread asking some lighting questions. I would love to get your opinion.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...n/64691-lighting-questions.html#axzz2Hg9zNI1F


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Chris,

I replied in your thread.

Cheers,
Simon


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## ALMFamily

Hey Simon!

Did you give your theater a name yet?! I would like to feature your theater in the newsletter this month so if you have named it, I would like to include that!

Hope all is going well!

Joe


----------



## raZorTT

Hi Joe,

I'm flattered you'd like to put my build in the newsletter.

I never really got around to naming it. I could never come up with anything that I was happy with

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## ALMFamily

How about The Thunder Down Under Theater! :heehee:

No worries - I will just go with raZorTT's Theater.


----------



## Sonnie

I have been through several pages and give up on finding the finished pictures (I assume it is finished?).

If it is finished, it would be good to have those finished pictures in our Home Theater Room Photos forum and maybe a link to this build thread. You could also link to them in your first post so that members don't have to hunt down the finished photos. :T


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Sonnie,

They're buried in here somewhere. I'll dig them out and put them in the first post :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------

