# Subwoofer placement help



## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Hi,

This is my first post here. :wave:

I am planning on getting either the SVS PB13-Ultra or the JL Audio Fathom f113. My room is pretty small, around 15 feet long x 11 feet wide x 9 feet high.

I have made the following (pretty crude too) drawing of my room:










One of the options of the subwoofer placement is in the corner where the sofas are. My question is, will being so closely surrounded by the sofas have any effect on the sound of the subwoofer? Is this a good placement? Another option for placement is where the bookshelf is. Will that be a better placement rather than the corner placement surrounded by sofas?

I have attached some more pictures to show you what the room looks like.

One of the options is placing the subwoofer in place of the bookshelf:










Or I can place it in the corner but it will be closely surrounded by sofas:










This picture shows you the rear end of the room. Basically the option is to place the subwoofer where the plant is:


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

The quick fix for that would be to put the subwoofer where you sit when watching movies or listening to music and then crawl, yes I said crawl, around the room and see where the bass sounds the best and put it there. It is a good starting point and people here with other options that are more technical will help if it doesn't seem right to you.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

TC is correct, the easiest thing to do (although lugging a PB13Ultra around is not easy) is place it at your listening position and crawl around the room to see where it sounds best.
But the couches shouldn't have much effect on the subs performance given the size of your room.


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

When you say place the subwoofer at the listening position, does that mean put the subwoofer on the sofa or can I move the sofa and place the subwoofer in its place?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

move the sofa.


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Welcome kain. Sub placement is an art. If you don't want to put the sub on the couch and crawl around (which is a great way to find your rooms sweet spot), you can just place the sub in a convenient corner. Go thru the speaker setup and level match the speakers and the sub. Try some good bass movies (WOTW) and just listen. As long as there aren't any huge "suck outs" or huge peaks in the bass, you should be ok. And remember, since bass is non-directional, placement should be based on best sound. After doing all this, your wife will tell you exactly where to place the sub! Have fun. Dennis


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Thanks for the responses. However, in theory, if I choose to place the subwoofer where the plant is, will being very closely surrounded by sofas have any effect on the subwoofer's performance?


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

I'm liking the PC13-Ultra in this application - it will fit perfectly where your plant stand is currently located.


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Ed Mullen said:


> I'm liking the PC13-Ultra in this application - it will fit perfectly where your plant stand is currently located.


 Even though a PC13-Ultra would be a better setup for my room, I like the looks and slightly more output of the PB13-Ultra.

Secondly, while placing the subwoofer where the plant is seems like a good idea, which out of the two placements would you recommend? Place the subwoofer in the back next to the listening position where the plant is or place the subwoofer up front where the bookshelf is (see first pic in my original post to see where the bookshelf is)? In theory and with your expertise, which do you think would sound better?

I've read that near field placements are usually better than far field placements because the bass wave hits your ears before it has a chance to interact with the room thus reducing the effect of room modes. Is this correct?

I will probably try both positions once I get the subwoofer but I would still like your input on this.

By the way, how much space should there be between the subwoofer driver/ports and the sofa in front of the driver/ports if I choose to place it where the plant is?


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

One more thing! If I choose to place the subwoofer where the bookshelf is, would it be considered as a corner placement even though it is not a "full corner?" There is about 16.5" of wall before the opening of the wall-through passage on one of the sides of the corner. See the first pic in my original post to see what I mean.


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## pietsch288 (Sep 10, 2006)

Would you have enough room (if you pulled out the left speaker and the tv a little or pulled everything forward a bit) between the left speaker and the tv for a pc ultra....that would give you the best blending with your mains which is critical for smooth sounding bass? If not I'd try the bookshelf then the plant and see which you like better. Remember to sit in all the seats that will be used sometimes it sound really really good in your seat :yay: but sounds extramely bad in the wifes seat :explode: so you won't be gettin any of this :kiss:


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

Kain said:


> Even though a PC13-Ultra would be a better setup for my room, I like the looks and slightly more output of the PB13-Ultra.
> 
> Secondly, while placing the subwoofer where the plant is seems like a good idea, which out of the two placements would you recommend? Place the subwoofer in the back next to the listening position where the plant is or place the subwoofer up front where the bookshelf is (see first pic in my original post to see where the bookshelf is)? In theory and with your expertise, which do you think would sound better?
> 
> ...



Well judging by the photos and layout of your room, you don't have a lot of placement options, and we built the cylinder models specifically for applications like this. 

While there are measureable differences between the PB13U and PC13U, you'll never realize the difference from a subjective standpoint - they are very hard to tell apart in actual A-B comparisons. 

I would keep your placement options open and try both locations (front bookshelf and rear plant). Room acoustics are complex and are not always easy to predict; I've seen nearfield placement work really nicely, and I've also seen it provide a terrible FR. Ditto for any other location in the room. 

Generally my preference is front stage placement for better blending with the mains, but the PB13U would probably crowd the bathroom entrance (where the bookshelf is), and the PC13U would fit better in that location, it might also be a little tight. All things considered, I think the PC13U form factor is a better choice in either location, and you should try both of them to see which gives the best results.


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

Ed Mullen said:


> Well judging by the photos and layout of your room, you don't have a lot of placement options, and we built the cylinder models specifically for applications like this.
> 
> While there are measureable differences between the PB13U and PC13U, you'll never realize the difference from a subjective standpoint - they are very hard to tell apart in actual A-B comparisons.
> 
> ...


 Thanks for the feedback/information.

However, if I choose to place the subwoofer in place of the bookshelf, would it be considered as a corner placement even though there is an opening (to the bathroom) on one of the sides of the corner? There is about 16.5" of wall before the opening for the bathroom entrance.


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

Kain said:


> Thanks for the feedback/information.
> 
> However, if I choose to place the subwoofer in place of the bookshelf, would it be considered as a corner placement even though there is an opening (to the bathroom) on one of the sides of the corner? There is about 16.5" of wall before the opening for the bathroom entrance.


It would considered corner placement to the extent it will excite all/most room modes from that location. There might be some interaction at higher bass frequencies with the bathroom opening area, since there is a few feet between the subwoofer and the boundaries. 

Whether or not a given location qualifies as "corner loaded" is really a moot point - it's the frequency response of the subwoofer from any given location which really matters in the end. That is why you should try both locations and measure the FR from each location and see which spot performs/sounds/measures best.


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

If I place the subwoofer where the plant is, how much space should there be between the ports of the PB13-Ultra and the sofa in front of the ports?


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

Kain said:


> If I place the subwoofer where the plant is, how much space should there be between the ports of the PB13-Ultra and the sofa in front of the ports?


With the PC13U it won't matter of course, with the PB13U I would leave at least 4-5" in front of the ports to avoid boundary related port compression.


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## Kain (Mar 2, 2009)

How do people measure/plot subwoofer frequency response graphs on a computer? Is it some computer software that comes with a mic? If so, can you recommend me some frequency response software that I can use to see how the subwoofer response is in my room?


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

Kain said:


> How do people measure/plot subwoofer frequency response graphs on a computer? Is it some computer software that comes with a mic? If so, can you recommend me some frequency response software that I can use to see how the subwoofer response is in my room?


You've come to the right place. :T Check out Room EQ Wizard in the other sections of this forum - the most knowledgeable and helpful users reside right here at the Shack. 

Or you can just order an AS-EQ1 from SVS and see how bad the FR is before EQ, and how nice it looks 10 minutes later. :yes:


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