# Help with second try



## Smasal (Mar 30, 2011)

I hoping someone here can help me or lead me in the right direction given what I would like (eventually) out of a home theater system given my situation. I started piecing together a system about 6 years ago and and I thought it was what I wanted but now realize I should have done it differently. Unfortunately, the setup I have now doesn't come close to what I want and doesn't give me the flexibility to build onto what I have. Granted I jumped into a home theater setup and my idea of a great system was to have a receiver with matching speakers.

I guess what I am looking to do, is to piece together a system that I can be proud of based off what I would really like to see. Unfortunately, I won't be able to do this all at once, but I should be able to get to where I want in about a year. Another reason I would like some help with what I should start with is because having it all within a year is just speculation and I won't know when I will be able to purchase my next piece of equipment. So, for example, I don't want to start off with a Blueray player when I don't have the potential to really use it for its full potential and not knowing when that might be. Below is the equipment I currently have.

Receiver: Onkyo TX-SR604
Projector: Panasonic PT ax200u
Speakers: Infinity TSS1100, 5 sats 1 sub (all blown)
Blueray: None

My wishlist would be to have 1080p as my current equipment will only produce 720p, 7.1 surround, 5.1 will suffice for now, capabilities for great sound for movies and music (I like loud), I have other speakers throughout the house and outside in the ceiling that I want to be able to use for music, ideally through the same receiver.

The system is in my basement so light is a non-issue. The area is 25x20 with 8ft ceiling. 

I have about $1,500 to spend now and should be able to spend about $1,000 every 3-4 months give or take a couple hundred. Tried the saving bit and got up to $3,500 before the wife got wind that I was going to use that money on home theater equipment (instead of a nice vacation). So I would like to be able to purchase my next piece of equipment as soon as I have the money instead of waiting until I reach the 4-5K mark because it won't last. 

So if you were me, where would you start and what would you build up to given the circumstances. 

Thanks


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

> So, for example, I don't want to start off with a Blueray player when I don't have the potential to really use it for its full potential and not knowing when that might be.


A blu ray player is worth it, but not anything overly lavish. Then again, I use my PS3 for other things too. Even natural 720P is a step up from DVDs unless you've got a high end upscaling.



> My wishlist would be to have 1080p as my current equipment will only produce 720p, 7.1 surround, 5.1 will suffice for now, capabilities for great sound for movies and music (I like loud), I have other speakers throughout the house and outside in the ceiling that I want to be able to use for music, ideally through the same receiver.


Keep in mind that house installations often present difficult loads for amplifiers because of the way they are wired. You will need to do your research to make sure you don't blow the amps on your receiver.



> So if you were me, where would you start


The Onkyo you're currently using lacks pre-outs and I would be rather wary of its ability to produce given a decent speaker load in your medium-large room. I would not normally tell you to begin with a receiver, but I have some tentativity in that regards. Perhaps some high efficiency speakers would be the way to go, allowing you to stick with your current receiver for the time being. On that note, I recommend a pair of JTR Triple 8s for stereo for the time being. High efficiency and top notch sound quality. Available in custom finishes from my understanding. If budget is a concern, the single 8HTs are probably a great choice, although they possibly wouldn't blend AS seamlessly to a sub imo as a triple 8. Still, they should be excellent, else Jeff Permanian would not sell them.

The next step would be an acoustically transparent Seymour AV DIY screen... because those JTRs are ugly :innocent: although that's purely aesthetic. If you've got a good screen right now, and don't mind ugly speakers flanking it, then stick to it. 

I know 1080p is one of your goals, but I would leave it for the time being as 720P is for most purposes rather pleasant. Instead I would next focus on a high output, low distortion subwoofer :hsd: :hsd: like the Rythmik FV15. If DIY doesn't bother you, the fellas here at HTS can really help you make a beast of a sub.. or two. Even those rythmiks come in DIY kits. 

Next I would add that projector. my choice would likely be JVC but people here are likely more knowledgable about projectors than I as I have yet to purchase one. 

Next I would get that projector properly calibrated. It's a night and day difference.

Then later add a third JTR Triple 8 center channel speaker (ask for it as a center channel so it's WCW instead of CWW if it won't be right behind the screen, otherwise discuss it with the company) and figuring out what to do for surrounds well later. Surrounds are great but really only make up like 10% of what we hear. Once you hit this point you'll have many options for surrounds and it's really too early to be thinking about that.

At this point I would look into :yikes: a new receiver or processor (myself leaning towards a Marantz B-Stock from accessories4less) with pre-outs and dedicated amps (Emotiva, Parasound, ATI, Outlaw, Face Audio, and Behringer A500 to name a few.) and room measurement mics and bass traps and another subwoofer or three. One sub can be powerful but two or three or four gives much better SOUNDING bass in real rooms. Seating is also important... who doesnt like a comfy seat? And then maybe i would swap the JTRs with some Gedlee Summas, TAD Reference Ones, or perhaps JBL Synthesis K2 if i was rich ;P



> and what would you build up to given the circumstances.


:bigsmile: :dumbcrazy: restraint? :rofl2:

I would never build up to any end goal! That would take the fun away from the hobby!


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

My first $1500 would be spent on 3 front speakers (JBL L820/LC2) and a good AVR with pre-outs:
Speakers... (L820) http://www.amazon.com/JBL-L820-Wall...Z9XO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1301550293&sr=8-1 .... (LC2) http://www.amazon.com/JBL-LC2-Performance-Wall-Mountable-Loudspeaker/dp/B000ICXVK6
AVR.... I don't have a specific recommendation at this time, but would suggest something that has a MSRP of around $800. For the present, this will drive the speakers well but later I would add a more powerful outboard amp because you like it loud (me too).

My next purchase would be a subwoofer and 2 surround speakers. The sub would have MSRP of around $800, and the surround speakers would be another set of JBL L820's.

Next purchase would be a second sub (same as first sub), and another set of surrond speakers (same as other set).

Next purchase would be projector.

Next purchase would be outboard amp.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Great recommendations from both Posts. I would start off with Speakers if they are blown as it reads in your Post, but would followup with an AVR ASAP and would not come close to driving those Speakers to Reference Level until you have a new AVR.

BDP's have dropped so much in price that you will be shocked at what you can get if you have not been shopping for one lately. Absolutely recommended as it is the only way to get the best possible SQ with True HD, DTS HD, and Uncompressed PCM.
Cheers,
JJ


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> but would followup with an AVR ASAP and would not come close to driving those Speakers to Reference Level until you have a new AVR.


The T8 is something like 101db/2.83V/m. As long as it is a solid state amp, anything that can produce around 50wpc into 4 ohms should be able to hit 105db at around 10ft away. Im with you that the receiver is generally weak but I think 50wpc into 4 ohms isn't asking the world of a 90wpc in 8ohms receiver as a peak scenario. I don't believe there are any overly harsh phase angles that would drive it to oscillate or overheat... of course this i would discuss with the manufacturer before any purchase regardless.

i would still get a true separates amp officiallyrated to 250+wpc into 4ohm eventually... but a few db below reference level would not be out of the question. plus the compression drivers are very rugged and won't blow as easily as a tweeter even if the amp does clip


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Given the circumstances, First thing i would do is keep the wife away from my stash money (i know how it is he he). Seriously, i would start off with nice speakers then an AVR then proceed to Blu-ray player a nice screen or TV and then what ever other toys that you will eventually want.:T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Thinking about it more, I would start off with speakers. Specifically, PSB Image T45 Main Speakers for 479(749 MSRP) from DMC-Electronics, PSB Image C40 Center Channel for 249 (349 MSRP), and PSB Image B15 Surrounds for 259 (379 MSRP) Here is the Link for all the Speakers:https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm

This leaves around 500 Dollars for a Subwoofer and here I would go with SVS's stellar SB12-NSD on sale for 599 in Gloss Black (749 MSRP) The Charcoal Grey Finish is available for the same price, but the Piano Black looks far more elegant and is usually over 100 Dollar upcharge.
Here is the Link:https://svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12nsd.cfm

This Speaker System would provide you with at least a decade of unbelievably high quality SQ for both Music and Movies. The MSRP on all these Speakers is $2,226.00 and even at MSRP all speakers outpreform many speakers costing multiples more than these. 

The SB-12 will literally blow you away with its low bass performance. In truth, very few people own subwoofers that will play down to 20hz at a meaningful SPL. Truthfully, most have never had a sub that goes down to 30hz. This is going to transform your HT in terms of Bass. And the PSB's are utterly faithful to the Source Material and I believe PSB Founder Paul Barton to be one of the most gifted Speaker Designers in the Business and his Designs have won countless Awards and Accolades.

While going slightly over 1500 Dollars, this 5.1 setup is easily comparable to some 5.1 setups that cost around 10,000 Dollars.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Very good recomendations Jack, allthough slightly over budget it would make for an extremely nice system for years to come.:T


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## mrinc (Apr 3, 2011)

Hello.

If you want a good Home theater System, have a look at these:
-*Bose Lifestyle V30 Home Theater System*
Or
-*Bose Lifestyle 28 Series III DVD Home Entertainment System*
Or
-*Bose® CineMate® Series II Digital Home Theater Speaker System *
Or
-*Sony STR-DH510 Home Theater A/V Receiver*
Or
-*Onkyo TX-SR606 7.1 Channel Home Theater Receiver*
Or
-*Sony MG-DDW5000 Home Theater*
Or
-*Sony 5.1ch DVD Home Theatre System [DAV-TZ210]*
Or
-*Linksys DMA2200 - Media Center Extender with DVD*
Or
-*Samsung HT-C5550W Blu-Ray Home Theatre System HT-C5550W*
Or
-*BoseÂ® AcoustimassÂ® 16 Series II home entertainment speaker system*

I would post links but this my first post.

Thanks


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Personally I think Bose speakers sound pleasing to the ear but are overpriced.
A great sounding system can be had for cheaper than what would be spent on Bose.


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## mrinc (Apr 3, 2011)

Hello

Said perfectly.

They are over priced but they are quality.

I have 2 bose systems and compared to my custom system, they do win but in some cases my system is much better and my lil system was cheap .

Thanks


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
With all due respect, I honestly do not think any Bose System compares to the 5.1 Package I recommended in any area aside from price.
While I do have respect for the 901 which put Bose on the map, the current offerings are quite expensive and unfortunately do not use materials befitting their price.

As it stands, Bose seems to spend more on Advertising and Litigation than they do on Research and Development.
They have done a tremendous job of making the unfettered masses equate them with state of the art Audio Reproduction, but almost all Audiophiles and Audio Professionals simply do not see it that way. You will not see Bose in Professional Studios or Mastering Houses nor will you see them in no holds barred Home Theaters.

I usually bit my tongue about this, but I really think they have hurt the AV Industry as a whole by misleading the mainstream that they are getting the best when they purchase Bose.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Smasal (Mar 30, 2011)

Wow, thank you all for the great reccomendations. At least I now have a pretty good idea of how I am going to approach piecing together my system starting with speakers. After taking a look at the speakers recommended, although I really like what I saw about the JTR T8s, given my price range I think I am going to go with the PSBs mentioned earlier especially at the prices listed. 

I am really excited about this, and now that I have a pretty good idea on the speakers, I am already looking into my next purchase for a receiver (hopefully when the government returns my money).

I am so glad I found this forum. You really make it fun coming up with ideas and recommendations that I would have never even though of before.


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## Smasal (Mar 30, 2011)

Ok I finally did it. I just ordered my speakers thanks to everybody's help. Here is what I got, PSBs 2 T45s, 2 B15s, 1C40, and 1 Sub300 all for $1,500 shipped. Now its time to move onto my receiver. I was wondering what you guys would think would be an appropriate reciever given my circumstances listed previously. I am very partial to Onkyo and would like to find something in the $400 range but willing to spend more if I have to.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Smasal said:


> Ok I finally did it. I just ordered my speakers thanks to everybody's help. Here is what I got, PSBs 2 T45s, 2 B15s, 1C40, and 1 Sub300 all for $1,500 shipped. Now its time to move onto my receiver. I was wondering what you guys would think would be an appropriate reciever given my circumstances listed previously. I am very partial to Onkyo and would like to find something in the $400 range but willing to spend more if I have to.


I would get this receiver. 

Here are the superb measurements of its amplifier section, which I suspect is more robust than more feature packed receivers. To me, amp section is the #1 most important part of a receiver, yet many companies are known to voltage bias their amps so that they can put up lots of watts in the spec sheet, but underperform when speakers demand current. This saves them money and allows them to pack in more useless spec sheet features.

Your T45s are effectively a 4 ohm speaker in the upper bass and lower midrange where power demands tend to be high:


















So I would get a receiver/amp that is comfy with a 4 ohm load. The Marantz clocked in at a shade under 210w into 4 ohms, which is respectable performance.

I have never used Onkyo gear so I can't comment much on it. It's always unnerving to me however to hear stories about how people's speakers came to life when they switched from their onkyo receiver to a separates amp... this shouldn't generally happen with a good receiver amp and the majority of speakers. How much of this is placebo effect I don't know. But Onkyo just isn't for me I guess. For separates I'd rather get a Denon processor, and for receivers I would lean towards Yamaha and Marantz, and possibly the latest generation of Pioneer stuff but not older.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

I am also partial to Onkyo (had a 703, have a 576 & 3008). My advice is always get the best Onkyo you can afford at the lowest price you can find. I wouldn't recommend upgrading from the 604 untill you are able to step at least as far as the 809 ($679 at Acc4Less). Also it sometimes pays to shop around other brands and see if a local Onkyo dealer will price match.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> I would get this receiver.
> 
> Here are the superb measurements of its amplifier section, which I suspect is more robust than more feature packed receivers. To me, amp section is the #1 most important part of a receiver, yet many companies are known to voltage bias their amps so that they can put up lots of watts in the spec sheet, but underperform when speakers demand current. This saves them money and allows them to pack in more useless spec sheet features.
> 
> ...


Man, you gotta love that $470 Marantz, stellar receiver for the money.


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

I have sold/installed many of sr6004 for with only 1 failure out of the box and it is a fantastic receiver.


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## Smasal (Mar 30, 2011)

Thanks all again. I decided to go with the onkyo 809, solely because i am partial to onkyo and i was able to get for 699 brand new. If i didn't find that i would have pulled the trigger on the marantz. 

Now its time to start thinking about my next purchase, either a 1080 projector or a blueray player.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Smasal said:


> Thanks all again. I decided to go with the onkyo 809, solely because i am partial to onkyo and i was able to get for 699 brand new. If i didn't find that i would have pulled the trigger on the marantz.
> 
> Now its time to start thinking about my next purchase, either a 1080 projector or a blueray player.


Hello,
Congrats. The 809 is my favorite 800 Series since the legendary 805 as it again offers Audyssey MultEQ XT. In addition to offering an outstanding Video Processing Section.

I would think a Projector would be more fun than a BDP. However, needless to say, the price differential is vast.
Cheers,
JJ


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