# Batcave Mancave Construction



## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

My new home is under construction and as described in the system recommendations thread I am building a dedicated home theater room in the basement. Well today the walls of the room have been framed and things will start moving along. I created the thread to get feedback as we move along. This forum has been great for picking out equipment, and now I hope people can aid me as we go through the the next phase.

I will try to upload a couple pictures that I took today.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Here are a couple (somewhat blurry) photos of the initial framing of the room.

The room will be 17' 3" x 18' 2". 

There will be an attached (and vented) 12' x 6' equipment and storage closet.

Here is my equipment list (just for the dedicated room) that is sitting waiting to get installed:

AV Receiver - Yamaha RX-A820 
Front Speakers - PSB GT1
Center Channel - PSB Platinum C2
Surrounds - PSB M6X1
Subwoofer - HSU VTF-2 mk4
Projector - Sony VPL-HW30EAS 1080P 3D
Screen 0 Vutec Vu-Easy 110" diagonal 16/9 Screen
Equipment Rack - Omnimount RE-27 Rack mount with built in cooling fan
Media Server - Popcorn Hour A-300 w/ 1 TB Hard Drive
Blu Ray - Oppo BDP-93
Gaming - XBox 360 w/Kinect


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Do you have a plan or sketchup of what you're intending to build?


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Here is a rough layout of what I am thinking based upon the room constraints. Thoughts?

I should say the room is a fully interior basement room with no windows.I may add some soffet lighting once the ductwork for HVAC is finalized.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I am sure you have thought of this, but wire _everything_ you can possibly imagine - and maybe some that you can't  - before the sheetrock goes up. Coax, Cat 6, HDMI, speaker wire, interconnects, etc.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Subscribed; looks like you've got a good plan in mind. Don't know if I will be of any use, but hey, I'm a mechanical engineer, and that's got to account for something, right? Bueller?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

So lucky to have that much space for your equipment closet! Subscribed!


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

My biggest worry is will my sectional be far enough back to have the surrounds be correctly placed on the sides, but still make an enjoyable viewing experience.with a 110" screen I think I am right near the edge of what ir recommended, but the doors make any more movement or different placements problematic.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

That was my concern as well when I saw your plan..
Your seating position is a bit close for that size screen..and your surrounds are not quite far enough back to be in an ideal position..

You have two alternative possibilities..
1. change you screen aspect ration to 2.35:1..That way you could sit a bit closer and have your surrounds more to the sides of the sofa..
2. Orientate the layout 180 degrees..That will give you more flexibility for seating position and surround speaker location..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm also a bit worried about your seating placement being to close to the centerline in the room, which is the worst place acoustically to sit. You ideally want to sit in the 60-80% zone from the front wall which will help with Sub EQ. Is it possible to have the doors open out instead of in or do a single door? Double doors, while dramatic, are terrible from a sound transmission standpoint. I'd consider a single door, that opens out, not in and move the couches back. Consider placing your speakers up higher as well toward the ceiling to give you bit more distance.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

I think the idea of rotating the room 180 degrees is the most feasible. My worry with that was the light coming through the French doors (solid core) would be a distraction. But I can find work arounds for that.

What are your guys thoughts for subwoofer placement? I did not mention the ceiling are just under 9 feet. Hopefully my HSU sub will work well enough in that space until I can afford to get another matching sub. I do have a basic powered Onkyo subwoofer in my current arrangement, would it be useful to utilize that as a secondary submuntil I can afford a matching sub?


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Love seeing a build come together, will be watching it all come together. Good room specs...I agree with the doors constraining your placement of seating and speakers.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

If you're turning the layout around, then I would place the sub near the equipment corner..Keep it away from the double doors..
You won't know the best position until you've done some tests, so you might have to move it around a bit..
With a secondary sub. you'll need to try different positions in the room to get a good overall balance..
A good starting point is on the back wall..


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Going along with hjones' suggestion of wiring for everything you can think of, you might want to consider running a few leads for ceiling speakers. I'm hearing more and more about overhead channels lately, and it can't hurt to run some more speaker wire while you have the place opened up.

Regarding the light from the doors, would it be possible to mount some kind of retractable blackout drapes to them? It might also help a little bit with acoustics if you used some nice thick absorbent material, since it would cover up the hard, reflective glass panels.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

I had an idea of using an interior (theater side of the frame) sliding barn door to solve the light issue. Plus I think it might look really cool. Here is an example:


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I think that would look awesome. And you could still add some kind of acoustic treatment to the front of it if you needed it too. Maybe build some DIY panels and make a nice artistic pattern with them or something, or you could make the full door an absorber for a nice simple look.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Thats a cool concept....that could work for blocking windows in a room too...on a smaller scale design....Nice.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Thanks, I do think it will work great, and look good as well. The roof is going on the house today, so hopefully the electrician and I smaller will be getting in there next week.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

The installer did his rough wiring for most of the house yesterday be fore Hurricane Sandy hit. Hopefully things will start moving quicker now.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Because of where the Geothermal HVAC ducts had to run I am having to switch to a drop ceiling instead of a drywall ceiling. So, are there any brand recommendations for both acoustics and/or price and quality?

Also, I was planning to paint the ceiling a dark color. It is better to paint the ceiling tile or see if they have a dark or black color option?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

lv2pitch said:


> Because of where the Geothermal HVAC ducts had to run I am having to switch to a drop ceiling instead of a drywall ceiling. So, are there any brand recommendations for both acoustics and/or price and quality?
> 
> Also, I was planning to paint the ceiling a dark color. It is better to paint the ceiling tile or see if they have a dark or black color option?


IIRC, buying a dark color is more expensive - if you are ok with painting them, I would go with white. I am pretty sure that Harry installed ceiling tiles and has provided a link to the ones he used in other posts. Try doing a search for ceiling tiles and look at posts from hjones.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

I am still battling the drop ceiling issue. I have gone to many sites that sell drop ceilings, and all though the prices vary wildly, it does not seem like the performance gains or losses equate to the price. So, I am looking for feedback on my current solution. I was thinking of going with black Armstrong fine fissured 2x2 tiles. They have an NRC of .65 and I was going to lay a layer of simple pink R-19 insulation over the top in the areas that are accessible (not where the insulated HVAC runs take up ceiling space).

Anyone have an opinion, or alternate suggestion?

The dry walling and taping/mudding are due to be done Monday with priming for paint starting right after. I have chosen a very deep Japanese red maple color for the walls with a dark chocolate brown color carpet. May run a 2 foot border of deep dark red carper around the perimeter of the room as well to add an accent.

The sliding barn door was indeed the way we ain't. We will use a solid core door painted to match the interior. It is a 36 inch door and a 32 inch opening, so hopefully we will get some good lighting and sound control.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Just had a thought that I don't think has come up in this thread, if you're worried about sound transmission through the ceiling and into the room above, I have read a little about people using drywall with green glue attached to the ceiling between the joists. It would help to block out some of the noise between the theatre and the room above, and should be fairly easy to cut and install, and it would still allow you to do the drop ceiling.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Owen Bartley said:


> Just had a thought that I don't think has come up in this thread, if you're worried about sound transmission through the ceiling and into the room above, I have read a little about people using drywall with green glue attached to the ceiling between the joists. It would help to block out some of the noise between the theatre and the room above, and should be fairly easy to cut and install, and it would still allow you to do the drop ceiling.


Uuurgh - I missed that as well Owen. I actually did this in my room. I had the kids stomp around upstairs before I put it up and then again after I put it up. It took a bit to do, but it was worth it as I did notice a dip in sound transmission.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Sorry Joe, I should have remembered where it came from. There are a lot of builds going on right now and its tough to keep track! I really want to implement this when we do our basement theatre too. It seems like a great way to help with sound, and for those with height constraints it doesn't even cost you any space in the room.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

I would love to do the DD and Green Glue, but I do not think the budget can hold it. When you are building a new home costs come at you from all sides.

I think I have to settle for buying the best acoustical ceiling tiles I can (within budget) and putting some insulation above the tiles or between the joists.

So, if anyone has brand recommendations for ceiling tiles I am all ears.

PS - They are finishing sanding today and should start priming next week. I will get some pictures up asap.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Sorry, just in case I am confused - the ceiling is currently open to the joists, right?

If so, even if you just cut drywall with no GG and install it between the joists I think you might see an improvement just by adding mass to the floor above. Just a thought if there is any drywall left over.....

As far as ceiling tiles, I am not familiar with them as I did a drywall ceiling but I do know that hjones and PTAaron did tiles - either of them may be able to point you in the right direction.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

We have plenty of left over drywall. Could you describe specifically what you mean, so I can speak to my contractor?

I am an idiot when it comes to construction. So, if possible, explain like you would to a 5 year old... then I might get it : )


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

No problem! I can do better - check out post #13 in my build thread - I tried to detail that process as best I could and included pictures too!


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

That should do it. My initial comment might have confused things. Basically if your ceiling has not been drywalled yet, you cut pieces of drywall to fit between the joists, and attach them right up against the subfloor of the room above. If you can add green glue it will help even more. It sounds like if you are at the sanding stage now, it would be too late to do this.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

The have not started sanding in the basement yet. They just finished mudding and taping yesterday.

The ceiling in the theater, however, will be just about the last thing done. It will remain open and exposed until just about the bitter end. I will speak to our contractor and see how much he will soak... umm... I mean charge me if I want to try to do that extra work. I think it sounds like a great idea and a smart use of remaining materials.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hope it works out - TBH, I was pleasantly surprised how much that one layer of drywall dropped sound trasmission.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Looks like the drywall in the joists is a no-go as they already disposed of the leftovers and the drywall era have left the site. My contractor is a bit if a PIA, so he does not handle last minute requests well, which kind of stinks.

So, it looks like I am left with black acoustic drop ceiling tile with some insulation tucked above the panels. Far from ideal, I know, but it is the best I can do at this point considering budget and delay factors.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Ah well, se la vi. I am not sure if you decided on panels yet, but I do remember that Harry (hjones) did panels in his room and likes them. IIRC, he has linked to them a few times so take a look through his posts and you should find it.


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## ManCave (Nov 15, 2010)

Depending on where you live Home Depot carries a product called Roxul insulation which is better at sound absorption than pink insulation. It's easier to install as it isn't fiberglass and it's fire rated too! Home Depot in the US is starting to carry it apparently. You might want to look into that for in between your joists.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Don't worry too much, this isn't a critical detail to have. Just keep moving on and getting closer and closer to the end goal. There are an infinite amount of details in the process that you could obsess over. Just remember at the end of it all you're going to have an awesome room to kick back in.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Does anyone have to a link with the thread mentioning brands of ceiling tiles?

Also, I have heard some people say Roxul is a rip-off, others seem to,swear by it. Does anyone have any first-hand experience?

If all goes well the theater should be operational by Jan. 1st!


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## ManCave (Nov 15, 2010)

I used Roxul between my joists and it made a huge difference. Check out their website Roxul.ca and look under their acoustic section.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

We should be seeing pics of the progress by now...:waiting:


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

lv2pitch said:


> Does anyone have to a link with the thread mentioning brands of ceiling tiles?
> 
> Also, I have heard some people say Roxul is a rip-off, others seem to,swear by it. Does anyone have any first-hand experience?
> 
> If all goes well the theater should be operational by Jan. 1st!


Unfortunately, if you are looking for black tiles, there are not many available options. I used Armstrong 24-in x 48-in Fine Fissured Ceiling Tile Panels from Lowes in my HT with a suspended ceiling:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_89091-61-1729ABL_0__?productId=3068433&cm_mmc=SCE_PLA-_-BuildingSupplies-_-Ceilings-_-3068433&"cagpspn=pla"

Special order and you won't like the price:unbelievable:

Be sure to order extras. When mine came in a few of them had bummed up edges from either warehouse handling or shipping - causing white cracks. Also, almost anything that comes into contact with them will leave visable dust; you will want to wear clean gloves (latex?) when putting them in.

Once in, they look great. There is a small amout of sheen. BTW, black rails are available, but mine was a retrofit, so I painted the existing white ones.

BTW, I read several threads about painting white tiles. Most were disappointed with the results and said that the tiles soaked up the paint and took more than one coat.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Here are a couple phone camera pics of where things are now. One is of the back wall where the projector will be located. Second picture is the wall where the screen will be installed.

Will be nice to see the paint go on and the sconces installed next week.

I ordered some sample ceiling tiles from ceilume.com. We will see if I like those better.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Grey primer went on today in preparation of paint.

Here is the wall color:


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Decided to go with ISC Cinetile in 5/8 flat black for the drop ceiling. 

So, hopefully painting will get done in the Ernest could days then the equipment installation, and the installing of the sliding barn door will happen.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looking forward to your impressions and pictures of the ceiling tiles - I have a project to finish off the rest of my basement area and I am considering a drop ceiling.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Room is painted! The deep dark red looks great.

The electrician installed the four wall sconces and we should have lights (and therefore pictures) in the next day or two.

Installation of the screen, projector, speakers, and electronic equipment is scheduled for January 4th. So excited to finally see it all come together.

Thanks to my discovery of this forum, and monoprice I am turning my office with my 27" iMac into a 3rd mini theater. Recycling my JBL northridge speakers that are currently in my living room and making a nice 5.0 system in my home office with my iMac as the centerpiece. Might not get quite as much work done with that set-up and my real theater in the room next door!

Coat wait to upload some new pictures.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looking forward to seeing the pictures! :clap:


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Here are a few pictures the room is painted and sconces installed. Carpet should go in after XMas.

Also attached a photo of the power reclining sectional that will be going in the room.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Drop ceiling (black cinetile) is installed and baseboards are also in. Sliding barn door will go in early next week and all the equipment gets installed Friday and Saturday along with the carpets, getting close to being Dom!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Excellent!

Pics by chance?


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

A couple pictures of the sconces and ceiling tile.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

lv2pitch said:


> A couple pictures of the sconces and ceiling tile.


Looking great!! :T


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

Tommorow is the day! Most of the electronics and screen should be installed.

Question, late in the game that I could use some advice on from the forum:

I was going to ceiling mount my projector inside the theater near the back. However, it occurred to me I have an unfinished storage space on the other side of the the wall. So, would it make sense to mount my Sony HPL50 on the other side of the wall and project through an opening in the drywall? Thinking it might help with noise and heat.

The back wall will be about 16 feet from the screen. And the seating area will be about 12 feet from the screen.

Any advice is welcome!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If you have not done much in the way of sound isolation, I think it is a feasible idea. I had originally planned to put my projector in the closet until I decided to create a shelf inside the soffit.

If you have done any sound isolation, then I would not cut any more holes than was absolutely necessary.


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