# Help withg Avia calibration disc and my projector...



## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

I am having a little trouble with calibrating my Mitsubishi HC1500 projector with the Avia disc.
In basic set-up it has a "saturation/hue" calibration and my projector has no controls for these?
Also, I'm guessing that later in the disc there will be R/G/B calibration and I cannot access the 'Color' or the 'Tint' controls on my projectors "image" menu screen? The controller just skips right over them and they are in white where everything else is in black?
I've done this before with my flat panels but never a projector....thanks for the help.


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## RollsRoyce (Apr 20, 2006)

*Re: Help withg Avia calibration disc*

Some displays disable color and tint controls depending on the type of input (component, composite, s-video, etc.). Run the AVIA test anyway. You may find that you don't need to make adjustments.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

*Re: Help withg Avia calibration disc*

I will have to borrow a component set from a friend them. As via HDMI it's a no go.
According to the test pattern on the disc I do need some changes. To my eye it is like this:
1. Green -- too much of a push
2. Red -- a little too much of a push
3. Blue -- not enough of a push


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hey Matt... I'm moving this to the projectors forum. I think one of our mods has a Mits projector and might know more about the settings.

It would sure seem to me that there should be a way to adjust color and tint.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Matt,

Are you able to get into the color temp settings and the gamma with HDMI?

mech


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Yes.
But those color temp settings combined with the 3-color viewer and the saturation/hue test make for an impossible task. Like I said I have calibrated with a disc before and as recently as a year ago with my RPTV DLP, but my t.v.'s have always had controls that made a difference on these tests with one number change.....whereas trying to complete this sat./hue test I pushed the numbers from -30 to +30 and almost NO difference visible?


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Matt,

Have you used the component cables yet to unlock the color and tint menus?

mech


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

No, I have to wait until this evening when my one friend gets home from work to borrow a component set. All I have are a bunch of HDMI's and I don't want to buy a set as I'll never use them again most likely.


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## RollsRoyce (Apr 20, 2006)

Matt, are you using the colorbars to check color and tint, or the color decoder check patterns? Does your projector allow you to display only one color at a time while looking at the colorbars? If so, it's the most accurate way to check since the AVIA filters can drift and may not be a good fit for your projector's primary colors to begin with. The reason your projector has no color/tint controls for HDMI is that in theory, the source itself is correctly doing all color processing (this is true of component, too, but many displays do provide color and tint controls for component inputs). There's no colorburst coming in that has to be decoded by the display. Trying to set HDMI color by using component cables probably won't work. If the projector keeps separate memories for each input, adjusting color and tint for component will have NO effect on HDMI. 

I sure hope you're not trying to adjust color and tint with the color temperature controls. They're for your grayscale only and the main effect they have on color decoding is to throw off the secondaries-yellow, magenta, and cyan.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Both color bars and color decoder patterns on the Avia, but yes I was using the 'User-Color Temp. controls. I had read online from two users who reported their calibrated levels and initially input them. 
I tried altering those to calm the red and green pushes and to saturate the blues more, but to no avail.

So if I cannot change the color of HDMI settings is there anything I can do?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Transferring settings from other people's sets is very much pointless, for several reasons. Trying to alter color decoding issues that might be affected by tint and color controls with gray scale settings is also pointless, unless you have the right equipment and a lot of experience.

Start by adjusting for proper gray scale and get that right first. If you then have to alter it to compensate for color decoder errors, do it very carefully.

One of your posts above indicates that you may think you can set the color and tint on component then go back to HDMI and expect to retain the effect. This is not the case. I am not familiar with this set specifically, but if the sat and hue are not active for that input they will not have any effect. Most of these sets remember values by input anyway.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Matt,

First off, you won't be able to adjust the color, tint, and sharpness with a HDMI connection. A HDMI connection is the digital signal that is on the disc and needs no adjusting. However the source DVD player may have a faulty HDMI port or a bad decoder, the pj's port may be bad or one of many other numerous things could be wrong with the pj.

What is the source player? How is it connected to the pj? Through an audio receiver? What screen do you have right now?

Here's what I would do:
Hook the HDMI cable directly from the DVD Player to the projector.
Try a different HDMI cable.
Try a different DVD player.

Let us know if any of these things gives you a better picture.

mech


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

mechman said:


> Matt,
> 
> First off, you won't be able to adjust the color, tint, and sharpness with a HDMI connection. A HDMI connection is the digital signal that is on the disc and needs no adjusting. However the source DVD player may have a faulty HDMI port or a bad decoder, the pj's port may be bad or one of many other numerous things could be wrong with the pj.
> 
> ...




1. Oppo HD80
2. HDMI to my receiver then HDMI to the PJ
3. TV Winter Mist

Will do on the checklist.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

lcaillo said:


> unless you have the right equipment and a lot of experience.
> 
> Start by adjusting for proper gray scale and get that right first. If you then have to alter it to compensate for color decoder errors, do it very carefully.
> 
> One of your posts above indicates that you may think you can set the color and tint on component then go back to HDMI and expect to retain the effect. This is not the case. I am not familiar with this set specifically, but if the sat and hue are not active for that input they will not have any effect. Most of these sets remember values by input anyway.


1. I don't.
2. How do I do that?
3. I did hope so...thanks.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

mechman said:


> Matt,
> 
> First off, you won't be able to adjust the color, tint, and sharpness with a HDMI connection. A HDMI connection is the digital signal that is on the disc and needs no adjusting. However the source DVD player may have a faulty HDMI port or a bad decoder, the pj's port may be bad or one of many other numerous things could be wrong with the pj.
> 
> ...


To say that HDMI signals need no adjusting assumes that the projector is perfect at decoding the color, that the source properly passes the signals, and that the originating encoding is correct. It is rarely the case that color decoders are good enough to not need adjustment.

Starting with proper gray scale, however, is the first step to determining what is going on.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

How do I adjust the gray scale?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

That is what the bias and gain are for.

Use a gray scale pattern from a test disc like GetGray, Avia, or DVE.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

> ...2. HDMI to my receiver then HDMI to the PJ ...


I don't like to connect the video signals to receiver and then to the display (TV or PJ in this case) ....:surrender::surrender::surrender:

I read somewhere that is best to have video signal directly to display and sound to receiver .... it has to do with conversion of the signal from one source to the other ....

I second the suggestion to connect directly to PJ and to use a different HDMI cable ...

Good Luck ...:wave::wave:


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## <^..^>Smokey Joe (Jun 29, 2007)

If you do a google for calibration of this model you will find some similar findings.

Set your brightness and contrast as per Avia.

Possible good starting point for settings.
Gamma mode=Cinema
Color Temp=Medium
Brilliant color=0

It is typical for Green and Blue gains to be tracking together from the above settings with Red a little low. 
If you dont have measurement tools, use a grey ramp to find where color deviates. Describing color push is very general as a statement as the push could be anywhere in the grey scale.

Although I have never seen this unit in action myself, I believe there is color temp advanced menu to adjust RGB gains/cuts for white balance.

Regards
<^..^>


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

lcaillo said:


> To say that HDMI signals need no adjusting assumes that the projector is perfect at decoding the color, that the source properly passes the signals, and that the originating encoding is correct. It is rarely the case that color decoders are good enough to not need adjustment.
> 
> Starting with proper gray scale, however, is the first step to determining what is going on.


I'm definitely guilty of being a bit short in my responses! :hide: I meant to say that the signal needs to be adjusted at the source of decoding for proper color. Meaning that you cannot adjust your Color, Tint, etc. settings at the projector while using the HDMI digital signal. 

Matt,

As Leonard and David state, set your gray scale first, plug your OPPO directly into the projector, and if it's still bad try a different HDMI cable.

mech


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

<^..^>Smokey Joe said:


> Although I have never seen this unit in action myself, I believe there is color temp advanced menu to adjust RGB gains/cuts for white balance.


There is smokey.

mech


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

salvasol said:


> I don't like to connect the video signals to receiver and then to the display (TV or PJ in this case) ....:surrender::surrender::surrender:
> 
> I read somewhere that is best to have video signal directly to display and sound to receiver .... it has to do with conversion of the signal from one source to the other ....
> 
> ...



I would have to buy an expensive HDMI switcher if I ran straight from my sources as the PJ has only one HDMI input....also if I shoot straight from HD-DVR and Oppo DVD to PJ with a switcher, how would I have sound?


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

mechman said:


> Matt,
> 
> As Leonard and David state, set your gray scale first, plug your OPPO directly into the projector, and if it's still bad try a different HDMI cable.
> 
> mech


How do I do this? My comprehension of lingo is still lacking.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> I would have to buy an expensive HDMI switcher if I ran straight from my sources as the PJ has only one HDMI input ...


I'm not sure what they cost ... but I found this one ... http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...&Sku=C184-40364&SRCCODE=YAHOODF&CMP=SPC-YAHOO



> ....also if I shoot straight from HD-DVR and Oppo DVD to PJ with a switcher, how would I have sound?


You can just connect the audio cable (optical or coaxial preferable) from the source (HD DVR and DVD) to receiver ... :yes::yes::yes:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> How do I do this? ...


I think what they mena is to adjust the black and whites on the monitor (PJ) ... I think is the first steps on the AVIA ..( I use DVE and that was the first thing I did, they can also call it brightness and picture) ... :yes::yes::yes:

I hope this helps ...:T:T:T

I found this online .... http://epaperpress.com/monitorcal/


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Ahh, yup I got that done last night.
I have an optical audio cable but have two questions:
1. What am I missing as how would my receiver output audio with no signal going into it?
2. Can an optical audio cable do 7.1?

Thanks!


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> ..I have an optical audio cable but have two questions:
> 1. What am I missing as how would my receiver output audio with no signal going into it?
> 2. Can an optical audio cable do 7.1? ...Thanks!


1. After you connect your optical cable from SAT and DVD to receiver, it will get the signal and then it will output the audio ... :yes::yes::yes: (don't worry about connecting the HDMI and optical together, I have my Sony DVD player connected that way and it works perfectly).

2. I'm not an expert, but I say yes. (The only thing is that most DVD have only 5.1 or 6.1, but the 7.1 can be done internally on the receiver; you have to properly set up the receiver to do this. I have a Sony 895 and is programmed to send a 7.1 audio with any signal (5.1, 6.1, etc.) ... :yes::yes::yes:


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Thanks alot for the time and info!
Optical audio is my best option for sound quality correct?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> Thanks alot for the time and info!..


Always glad to share my opinions ...:wave::wave::wave:



> ... Optical audio is my best option for sound quality correct? ...


Besides HDMI (if a recall correctly :scratch::scratch digital audio (optical or coaxial) is the next best option ... you're correct. :T:T:T


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

So there is a loss in AQ from HDMI to Optical?


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Matt,

I was having you try all of these separate things in order to troubleshoot your picture problem. There's no need to get an optical cord if your receiver isn't the issue. I think you should figure out your video issue first and then figure out how to hook it all up.

I told you to connect directly to the pj to see if it was the HDMI switch in your receiver causing an issue.

I told you to try a different HDMI cord to see if it was a cord issue.

If you take the Oppo and connect it directly to the pj and try a different HDMI cord and it still has the green push than maybe it's the Oppo. Try a different DVD player.

If the new DVD player gives you a good image, then one by one set it all back up how you originally had it and see if it still looks good. If it does it was more than likely something to do with the Oppo.

If the picture is still bad, than it may be the projector. You just purchased it, what's the return policy? Can you exchange it?

I also asked if you tried component yet. If you get a decent picture with the component that means something may be wrong on the HDMI side of things, ie bad cable, bad decoder, bad HDMI ports...

Fix the image first and then hook it all up after you figure out what's wrong and fix it. I am no ISF calibrator nor am I a service tech. I am as you are, a home theater projector owner, and this is how I'd tackle trouble shooting your image problem.

I'd also assume you may have your contrast and brightness set already as you're trying to fix a green push, correct?

mech


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Well, I set it up how you said too and the Optical Audio will only transmit DD. My Yamaha RX-V661receiver will not allow me to use EX or DTS or 7.1 
So know what?


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Spoke too soon once again, it seems that I just needed to change digtial audio output on Oppo from Raw Bitstream to PCM. I'm guessing raw bitstream means exactly what is on the disc then. I'd rather have the fake 7.1 
Until I can get a switcher(and a second Optical Audio cable) I'm just going to run it as I have been with the two sources to the reciver and then from the receiver to the PJ.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

The PJ is not bad. It's just that skin takes on too much of a green tint. That is my only complaint, but it does bother me.
I went into dvd players' set-up with Avia and the saturation and hue were dead on.
I did the direct hook-ups and they look the same with the skin tone. (dvd player and hd-dvr box)
Not sure if there is anything I can do about it??


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Here's another new thing.....somehow I changed something because my volume output is way increased and on my receiver instead of only "PLIIx Music" it has the inverted D's emblem and then D+PLIIxMusic"
Same with ESPN-HD, but NFL-HD is just "PLIIxMusic"??
It has same output and slightly clearer @ 12db less on my Yamaha receiver.....what did I do??


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> ....somehow I changed something because my volume output is way increased and on my receiver instead of only "PLIIx Music" it has the inverted D's emblem and then D+PLIIxMusic" Same with ESPN-HD, but NFL-HD is just "PLIIxMusic"?? .....what did I do??


In my Sony I can assign different surround modes for each input (DVD, Video, SAT, etc.)... :yes::yes::yes:

I suggest you to check that on your user manual.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

My HD-DVR cable box was in Mono output and I changed it to stereo...could that be what did it? I would figure the receiver could decode no matter if it was being sent mono or stereo but maybe not.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

salvasol said:


> In my Sony I can assign different surround modes for each input (DVD, Video, SAT, etc.)... :yes::yes::yes:
> 
> I suggest you to check that on your user manual.


Yea, the V661 does that as well.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

I don't get it. I'm reading everywhere that Digital Optical can only carry 5.1 and that HDMI can carry lossless 7.1....so why does my set-up sound louder now with digital optical as my audio out and HDMI as my video out only??


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

.....somehow I changed something because my volume output is way increased and on my receiver instead of only "PLIIx Music" it has the inverted D's emblem and then D+PLIIxMusic"
Same with ESPN-HD, but NFL-HD is just "PLIIxMusic"(like EVERY channel and DVD was--including Blu-Ray True HD disc)??
It has same output and slightly clearer @ 12db less on my Yamaha receiver.....what did I do??


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## GbrNole (Sep 21, 2007)

the change in output levels is because you switched to PCM output rather than using a digital bitstream output. for HTPC users this generally can be the bain of our existance because most all audio will be sent to the receiver as PCM but dvd's and recorded HD content will be dolby digital bistream resulting in much lower audio levels (somewhere around the 10dB you noted)

bitstream is ultimately your best connection though so when you get the switcher box move back to using the HDMI connection for your audio especially if you have an HD-DVD or bluray source since the sound quality is noticably better.

i just want to mention something from your very first post in this thread though. you mentioned settings for color/hue and saturation/tint. the saturation / tint patternt i assume you're referring to is in the avia basic setup and throws up the color bars with the flashing boxes in the middle of them.
with this pattern you have to adjust your basic color and hue controls in the PJ to get to a point where the boxes don't appear to flash any more when you look through the blue filter.

by increasing the color value in the PJ you are actually increasing the blue value so it sounds like your color value is too low right now if your blue shows up weak in the color decoder check. increasing the color value should also tame the red and green from being pushed just a little.

as far as gray scale goes make sure to always write down the factory defaults before screwing around with it because unless you have a gray scale calibration tool or a D65 reference light, eyeballing it just wont be accurate unless you have a ridiculously good eye for color!


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Ended up not messing with the gray scale(besides brightness and contrast) as I don't have the tools.
I either got used to it or the small changes I made took care of it because the red push is good now and the green is pretty good. The blue is still a little too weak though.

Now comes the new problem:
-My lamp flickers and called C.S., they had me reseat the lamp and that didn't fix it, so now I have to ship it out and will be without any t.v. for who knows how long


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