# wiring two stereos



## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

I have two stereos in two rooms, can anyone suggest how to put my sources (tuner, CD changer, etc.) in one room and play either stereo or both at the same time. Controlling the sources is no problem. There may be some way to run cables from preamp to preamp that would work.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Depending on your particular preamps, you may be able to run a pre-out signal from one to the other. That would force you to listen to the same program material on both systems (i.e., you would have to listen to "CD" in both rooms, one can't be "CD" and the other "satellite radio" or whatever). Actually, that may not be true, based on the preamp. If the #1 preamp (the one that's feeding the #2 preamp) has a Rec Out selector, you should be able to select which signal is fed to the #2 pre.

Do you need volume to be controlled from a single source, or can you allow volume to be controlled by each individual preamp? Would it be any benefit to co-locate the two preamps/power amps and just have long speaker wire runs?

How far apart are the preamps now?

How important is audio quality?

What preamps/power amps are you using?

That's a start!


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

The preamp in the room where my sources will be is an Adcom GFP-715, the other is a Parasound P3. Would a pair of cables from the Tape Out to the Aux or Tape In work. If I get a ground loop hum I could leave off the grounds at the box where it goes thru the wall. Does this sound like it will work? The only downside to this I can think of is having to have both preamps on. Having both stereos playing the same thing isn't a problem, I want to have one or both playing from the same sources at the same time. I guess what I'm trying to say is that I wanted to put all the source equipment in one room but still be able to use them on both stereos.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

There's no need to go to much trouble hooking this up. Just split the outputs of the sources with 'Y-splitters' and feed both receivers.

brucek


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

If you really care to play the same source in both locations, I would still probably go from the "Tape Out" of one preamp to the "Aux In" (or similar) of the other. brucek's use of "Y-splitters" is valid, but requires you to run a set of interconnects for each source present. Tape Out to Aux In only requires one set of interconnects, no splitters, and you may be able to switch your source at the first preamp.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Splitters allow each stereo to play a different source at the same time.

Splitters aren't subject to any interference or response problems with passing the source signal through an initial receivers electronics.

Splitters have equal number of interconnects compared to feeding a receiver and then passing out to a second receiver.

Splitters don't require a pass through receiver to be turned on.

brucek


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

brucek said:


> Splitters allow each stereo to play a different source at the same time.


True, though I addressed that, and he seems to indicate that he wants to play the same thing at the same time.



> Splitters aren't subject to any interference or response problems with passing the source signal through an initial receivers electronics.


True. Note that I did originally ask about how important sound quality is. If it's important, I probably wouldn't recommend long single-ended runs at all.



> Splitters have equal number of interconnects compared to feeding a receiver and then passing out to a second receiver.


Perhaps I'm missing something obvious, but I don't see how that makes much difference.



> Splitters don't require a pass through receiver to be turned on.


Good point.

I wasn't trying to shoot down your comment, just offering various options, especially since he specifically asked about Tape Out to Aux In. :bigsmile:


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I wasn't trying to shoot down your comment


no problem  , I was trying to come up with the simplest method with the best sound. Splitters allow everyone to operate the system without a lot of head scratching or button pushing...

brucek


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

The two preamps are about twenty feet apart but seperated by a wall. The splitter sounds like the best solution but there are three sources and that means three pair of cables going to each preamp. I guess I'll try the single pair connected to the preamps first since I need to mount a box and plate to both sides of the wall. If I can do that without making a total mess the plates are easy to change. I wanted this to look halfway neat, no cable running thru hole in wall, just wall plates with rca jacks on them. If this works out I can always change the plates to ones with more terminals on them. The use of splitters does sound like the better solution for ease of use.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> Splitters allow everyone to operate the system without a lot of head scratching or button pushing...


Actually, it would cause more button pushing. Using the tape outputs from the main pre-amp, the secondary pre-amp can stay set for the same input all the time. With splitters from each source, you’ll have to do extra “button pushing,” selecting the source separately for both pre amps.

Unless the use of independent sources in both locations is desired, I can’t see any good reason to split out every source. It’s just extra cabling. People typically aren’t concerned with reference quality in secondary locations anyway. 

Regards,
Wayne


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

Tell me about the sound quality difference that keeps coming up.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Well, long runs of single ended cables (like L/R RCA cables) tend to pick up noise from other electronics, 120V AC wiring in your home, etc. The longer the run, the more potential to pick up noise. Balanced cables generally do away with this, so if you have that option, that would be of great benefit to a 20' run.

Also, as brucek pointed out, running through an initial preamp to be able to go out of its tape out introduces any noise, distortion, etc., that might be present in the signal path. In general, the less processing you do on a signal, including in the analog domain, the less degradation of the original signal.

Those would be my two primary concerns. That said, I do have a long (probably 20'+) run from my living room to my basement for my second zone. I bet there's some hum there, but I haven't listened for it -- my zone 2 listening is totally non-critical, so as long as it's not present for casual listening, I don't mind. But I _would_ mind if it were in my main listening room.

What are your goals?


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

Otto said:


> Well, long runs of single ended cables (like L/R RCA cables) tend to pick up noise from other electronics, 120V AC wiring in your home, etc. The longer the run, the more potential to pick up noise. Balanced cables generally do away with this, so if you have that option, that would be of great benefit to a 20' run.
> 
> Also, as brucek pointed out, running through an initial preamp to be able to go out of its tape out introduces any noise, distortion, etc., that might be present in the signal path. In general, the less processing you do on a signal, including in the analog domain, the less degradation of the original signal.
> 
> ...


I would like the best possible sound from both. I've put off moving one of the stereos, a large opening to the left side has to be a bad thing, right? It looks like it is time to rearrange that one, plus the preamp would be about fifteen feet closer to the other preamp. Moving the speakers is a major pain so I might move the preamp and amps instead. That would cut the interconnect distance to about ten feet. 
Does using splitters cause any problems? That does sound like a good way to go except for the extra cables.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jimC said:


> Tell me about the sound quality difference that keeps coming up.


I seem to be in the minority here, but I don’t think it’s an issue at all. A 20-ft run isn’t really all that long, even for unbalanced. 

As far as noise and distortion, we’re dealing with specs that are beyond stellar to begin with – 95 dB or better noise figures for receivers, and even better with CD and DVD players. I assure you, few (if any) people will hear a difference if a 95 dB S/N ratio is “degraded” to 94.

Same with distortion. It’s generally accepted that the threshold of audible distortion is about 3%. Most CD or DVD players have distortion specs better than 0.01, and receiver’s amplifier sections are typically 0.09% or better. It takes some pretty special ears to tell if the signal has been “degraded” to 0.097%

Then you have the situation that speakers by their nature add more distortion than any electronics ever will.

Typically if signal “degradation” is audible at all, it’s a loss in level, or a slight loss in the high frequencies – both of which are easily corrected at the second pre-amp (volume and tone controls). But you’d have to have a run a lot longer than 20’ before even that would be an issue.

Bottom line, Jim, I wouldn’t worry in the slightest about running 20’ cables from the tape outputs to a second pre-amp.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

Thanks guys, it looks like the only thing left to do is cut a hole in each side of the wall, mount boxes and plates without making a real mess.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Wayne said:


> I seem to be in the minority here


Nah, I generally agree with you -- it probably won't be an issue. Nonetheless, I would try to avoid a 20' RCA run in my "big" system. The OP will be fine either way.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

jimC said:


> Thanks guys, it looks like the only thing left to do is cut a hole in each side of the wall, mount boxes and plates without making a real mess.


I suggest using a couple of old-work electrical boxes, since the wall plates you want to use screw to an electrical box. Make sure you get the paper pattern for cutting the hole with them. Use a level when you trace the pattern on the wall, to make sure your box ends up installed straight. Use a drywall saw to cut your hole in the wall. Make sure your two boxes are between the same two studs, so you can reach the wall and grab the wiring.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wayne


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I would like the best possible sound from both.


Then use splitters.



> Does using splitters cause any problems?


No, best possible sound.



> That does sound like a good way to go except for the extra cables.


Few extra sets of interconnects doesn't have to be expensive.

Anyone else using the system(s) in the house? WAF will be low on the other suggestions..."why do I have to turn on the stereo in the other room when I want to listen to a CD?"........"I want to listen to the tuner, and she wants to listen to the CD, why can't we do that?"..............etc, etc.... :dizzy: 

brucek


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

When mounting the boxes in the wall do I need to attach them to a stud, will there be enough support if I don't attach them to a stud?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi jimC,

The "old work" boxes that Wayne mentions have little plastic "flags" that tighten with a screw from the front of the box. So you just cut your hole, and then insert the box, and tighten the screws. The flags will rotate so that they hold against the back side of the drywall. If you've never seen one, go to Home Depot and look for the blue plastic boxes. Look for "old work" written right on the box. You'll see right away how the work. 

As to mounting to them on a stud, I don't think it's necessary. For a light switch or something that's light-use like you are installing, it's probably not necessary. I would try to mount it to a stud if I were mounting an AC outlet in a high traffic area. I don't think they are pre-drilled for that type of installation, but if you know where your stud is, and you cut your hole right, you could anchor them to the stud -- directly through the side of the box with drywall screws.


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

I'll look for the "old work" boxes, sounds like what I need. The splitter hook-up looks like the best way to go. A little bit more hardware but easier to use. I ordered wall plates and the inserts for them from cablestogo.com a few minutes ago. The inserts can be changed for different kinds of plugs in case I decide to do anything else. Lowe's is the main hardware store here and I'm sure I've seen the boxes I need. All I need now is the splitters and I won't have any more excuses not to start moving things and cutting holes. Connector cables, almost forgot them, probably in a box or something. If not, That is no problem.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Good Luck with your project.:yes: :yes: 

I don't know why you want to do it this way, but I'm sure you have your reasons.
In my case, I have a stereo for my HT, and then I have a stereo for the whole house and patio (seven pairs of speakers) .... when I want to listen CD's, tapes, radio, etc.. I use this stereo.

This way I can be enjoying a nice movie in my HT (is a totally separated room) and somebody else can listen something different.:yes: :yes: :yes:


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## jimC (Dec 17, 2006)

salvasol said:


> Good Luck with your project.:yes: :yes:
> 
> I don't know why you want to do it this way, but I'm sure you have your reasons.
> In my case, I have a stereo for my HT, and then I have a stereo for the whole house and patio (seven pairs of speakers) .... when I want to listen CD's, tapes, radio, etc.. I use this stereo.
> ...


I wanted more space in the living room by having all the sources in the bedroom. I do have another room for HT and it will be seperate from the other two systems. Mine isn't very different from yours, except that I have two stereo systems instead of extra speakers for one system. I wanted the choice of having them use the same source or seperate sources. If I'm moving thru the house doing something I can have music with me. I had one stereo system for the bedroom when I moved here and instead of adding speakers to it I got a better one for the living room. Connecting the two with splitters on the sources saves room and money. Getting cheaper in my old age.


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