# Newbie here advice would be appreciated



## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Hi all, as stated above I'm new to this site but LOVE all the information on here. I also would like to confess that I know very little about the AV world so to speak. 
I am looking to pass some wires so I can get Pay TV put in my Trophy Room and while passing these cables I am going to also pass extra cables so I can run a projector in this room also in the near future as its a massive job passing cable in a room like this as it has a Cathedral ceiling and because it is a tin roof means the cavity is very narrow only 125 mm or 5 inches.

Just to give you a better understanding about my Trophy Room. The room is quite large 14 meters by 10 meters or 46 feet by 33 feet. The walls are 13 feet high and the center of the cathedral ceiling is approximately 20 feet high. Unfortunately I totally understand that this room has a lot of flaws going for it, acoustically speaking but I basically live in here especially during winter as I rarely go out due to my disability being a Quadriplegic I really feel the cold and HATE it. 

I have tried to attach a couple of photo's of my trophy room but doubt it will work because this is my first post. I hope the photo's work to give you a better idea of what I am trying to explain about my room, but I think I cannot post photos until I post a minimum of 5 posts. 

Dead center of my Trophy room I have a Pillar which has a steel beem for structural support and I will make use of the pillar by using a wall mounted bracket to fix the projector to it. 
From the pillar to where the screen will eventually be is exactly 6.65 meters however once the projector is mounted to the bracket it will be about 6.1 meters (20 feet) away from the fixed screen. 

Also I thought it would be worth mentioning that the seating will be approximately 5.5 meters (18 feet) from the 150 inch screen. 
If all goes to plan and weather permitting my cousin who is a Electrician will pass all the cable this weekend. He just purchased some CAT-6 & RG6/RJ6 cable today. 
Also unfortunately because each run of cable needs to be between 25 to 30 meters (82 to 98 feet) long. 
I cant go HDMI as I have been advised that once HDMI goes over 15 meters long, it starts loosening its Audio & Video signal. 
I have been advised to go with Cat/6 and then use a Gaffen Toolbox HDMI extender over the Cat/6 cable to then change the signal to HDMI where it counts. 

At first I was looking to purchase the following items which I have listed below:
Optoma HD83 or HD8300 projector (I LOVE 3D MOVIES)
Integra DTR 70.3 Amp
Oppo BDP 95 Blu-Ray 
150 “ Majestic Fixed frame screen, with Evo 3D fabric. Aspect ratio 16:9 
Gaffen Toolbox HDMI Extender over Cat/6 (Extra long range Extender for HDMI, 3D TV and IR over one Cat-6 cable) 
2 Audioquest premium Pre-terminated speaker cable + Premium Audioquest connectors Pre-fitted (This is to Bi-wire my Front B&W CDM 9NT Speakers)
3 Audioquest Pearl HDMI cable. High speed with ethernet 1 meter each. 
$11,250 here in Melbourne Australia.

I thought I would make a call to a A/V shop here in Melbourne Australia probably one of the best A/V shops here. I actually purchased my very first stereo system which had Lazer Disc, this was 21 years ago, unfortunately Lazer Disc never took off, the sound was awesome and these guys were very helpful although anyone would be when spending $10k for a stereo system 10 years ago. However they really went out of there way I felt to help me out.

After calling them and emailing them a list of what I was looking at purchasing as I done above, he mentioned straight away that because my room is so large and has basically ALL hard surfaces he thought TWO things should change from the list due to my room, he mentioned a NAD Amp would work better for my Trophy room and sound better then a Integra Amp, he stocks Integra and I knew he does as I checked there site, he said they are a AWESOME amp for a dedicated home Theater, his point was because my room is full of hard surfaces he suggested that there are a couple of NAD amps that would make the sound much better then what a Integra Amp would due to the way my trophy room is. 

Secondly he was against Optoma projectors, he said that Optoma make a great projector if you happen to get a good one but he said that there customer support was shocking, to the point that if something went wrong with the unit that Optoma would take from 1 month to 3 months to fix the problem and told me straight out if I wanted a Optoma projector that he wouldn't sell me one because if anything went wrong with it then I would obviously have to go through him to get the issue resolved. I know it may come across as him being rude when reading it in text, but I really appreciated his advice, as he said he can get me one, but it's something his company no longer deal with due to there poor customer service here in Australia.

Now I totally understand that everyone is going to have certain opinions and preferences when it comes to Amps and Projectors or anything for that matter. 
My main query right now is, Can the brand of Amp such as going from a Integra Amp to a NAD Amp really make a huge difference in sound to a room such as my room as it isn't acoustically designed as a theater room.

Regards and ALL advice will be appreciated greatly.:help:
Dean


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

That is a very quirky room Dean. :rubeyes:
I look forward to see how your system progresses.

BTW it's a bit warmer up here in Ncle, Not so close to the antarctic. :whistling:

Cheers,
Bill.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Hello and welcome to HTS. Look forward to seeing your subwoofer system to pressurize that room.


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

robbo266317 said:


> That is a very quirky room Dean. :rubeyes:
> I look forward to see how your system progresses.
> 
> BTW it's a bit warmer up here in Ncle, Not so close to the antarctic. :whistling:
> ...


Sorry I should have warned people if photo's of stuffed animals offends please avoid entering but I honestly thought my photo's wouldn't load up. I wanted to add the photo's as they show the Pillar where the Projector will be mounted and also the rock wall is where the screen will be mounted.
I'm really not sure whether to go for a decent NAD Amp or stick with the Integra DTR 70.3?
Also what is a GREAT 2D & Awesome 3D projector?

Cheers
Dean


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Dean,

As far as the projector, I would take a look at the new Panasonic AE-8000U. The AE-7000U (the previous model) is also a 3D capable projector, but one of the biggest complaints with it was that it did not have enough lumens to function well as a 3D projector. From initial reviews, they look to have corrected this issue.

As far as the processor, that is going to be a big space to fill as well as having some odd angles. I set up a system in my living room that has an open floor plan with vaulted ceilings. I went with the Sherwood 972 which uses Trinnov - it seems to handle measuring and adjusting the odd room configuration of the room much better. It does have it quirks - there is a thread here providing many people's experiences - but I have been really pleased with it's ability to calibrate my odd-shaped room.


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## J&D (Apr 11, 2008)

You only mention your two front speakers, what, and how many surround speakers are you planning to run from the 70.3? That would really be more determinant of a need for an external amp or not. I personally do not subscribe to the "sound" of an amplifier when we are talking solid state.

The 70.3 is a good choice, comes with XT32 which will help a bit in that space but room correction software can only take you so far. You will need some room treatments in there to minimize reflections. The dealer you are working with sounds ok but anyone that recommends an amp right out of the gate to solve for some very challenging acoustic space issues would not be my first choice of partner to work with. He should have offered up some advice on how to treat the room first then worry about how to best drive your speakers once that issue has been dealt with. Perhaps put very heavy coats on all of your friends in there?  

Just kidding, but since you already have a good deal of wall ornamentation you could get creative and place the mounts onto some acoustic panels. Good luck with the project and have fun with it!


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Forum. Have fun. Dennis


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Welcome to HTS!!!


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Hello and welcome to HTS! :wave:


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

J&D said:


> You only mention your two front speakers, what, and how many surround speakers are you planning to run from the 70.3? That would really be more determinant of a need for an external amp or not. I personally do not subscribe to the "sound" of an amplifier when we are talking solid state.
> 
> The 70.3 is a good choice, comes with XT32 which will help a bit in that space but room correction software can only take you so far. You will need some room treatments in there to minimize reflections. The dealer you are working with sounds ok but anyone that recommends an amp right out of the gate to solve for some very challenging acoustic space issues would not be my first choice of partner to work with. He should have offered up some advice on how to treat the room first then worry about how to best drive your speakers once that issue has been dealt with. Perhaps put very heavy coats on all of your friends in there?
> 
> Just kidding, but since you already have a good deal of wall ornamentation you could get creative and place the mounts onto some acoustic panels. Good luck with the project and have fun with it!


Sorry I should have mentioned more info about my speakers. Currently my set up is 5.1 but I will be passing or adding speaker cables to make it true 7.2 set up, thats the best I can go due to the existing speaker wire I have run in this room. I could go 9.2 but that would mean having exposed wires in my room and thats something I cant stand. 
I think by going 7.2 and having 2 extra side speakers will help a great deal and while passing all the cable it will take no extra time to pass some RG6/RJ6 cable in order to have my second Sub-woofer behind my seating area directly on the floor somewhere. 
I just thought of this but I don't know if this would help anything Re: Audio in this room. 
I could get some good quality speaker wire and run it down my Pillar. The bottom 1.1 meters (3 Foot 7") of the Pillar widens out to be 1 meter mide (3 feet 3" wide) 
If you think having 2 extra speakers either side of the 1 meter or (3 feet 3") wide part of the Pillar directly behind the seating area will help with sound then I'll be more then happy to run the extra speaker wire there and add 2 extra speakers either side of the widest part of the pillar. Would it matter that it's only 1 meter wide or 3 feet 3 inches wide?

The 5.1 speakers system I currently have are all B&W. 
The fronts are floor standing B&W CDM 9NT 
The centre speaker are B&W CDM CNT 
My rear speakers are B&W CDM SNT (Wall mounted) 
The Sub-woofer is a B&W ASW-675 

The A/V dealer that recommended I should strongly consider a NAD Amp over the Integra 70.3 did mention to me prior if there was anyway I could soften the room and explained to me how sound keeps bouncing off hard surfaces so to speak, I couldn't believe how complex sound actually gets, it's truly amazing.

However as I described to him because I designed this room as my Trophy Room I cannot really do anything to soften up the walls or ceilings. The best I can do is run rugs on the timber flooring and he said that would defiantly help to a degree.

Hope the added info I explained helps you a little more.

Thank you for taking the time to try help 
Dean


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Thanks allot on the information you provided, I will look into the Panasonic AE-8000U
As for the Amp it's a tough decision but all advice is appreciated.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I wonder if some of the larger trophys could be strategically placed around the listening area and used as absorbtion panels. That and a rug between the seating area and the front speakers.

Honestly the only reason I can see why a Nad would sound better then a Integra unless you going with full separates for power reasons. I would think the Audessy eq in the Integra would be benificial for you.

If you planning on putting your rear and side surronds on the actual side and rear walls they would be considerably further away then is recommended, but if that is a want/need then I can see that you would want larger surrounds and the extra power separates would give you. I take it speakers on stands closer to the listneing area is not wanted because of cables on the floor. Also I wouldn't bother with dipole surrounds considering the trophys on the walls.

If warrany is an issue downunder for the Optoma then go with the Panny


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Andre said:


> I wonder if some of the larger trophys could be strategically placed around the listening area and used as absorbtion panels. That and a rug between the seating area and the front speakers.
> 
> Honestly the only reason I can see why a Nad would sound better then a Integra unless you going with full separates for power reasons. I would think the Audessy eq in the Integra would be benificial for you.
> 
> ...



I sincerely appreciate everything you have stipulated. I really like your idea about re-positioning the full mounts by moving them forward to where the sound is basically focused, as that is something that would be very easy to accomplish.

Regarding my rear CDM SNT (Wall mounted) speakers, they are not placed right at the back of the room at 14 meters or 46 feet. The rear speakers were mounted on my wall about 3 feet behind the seating area which is 6.1 meters or 20 feet from where the Screen will be. 
Once I looked at it and got a mate to measure a couple of things, the rear speakers will be dead in line to where the projector will be mounted, obviously the rear speakers are mounted to either side of the side walls so they are 5 meters or 16 feet per side away from the projector. To give you a better idea on how I envisage my speaker layout to be I made a quick list below.

(1). Two from speakers either side of the screen which will be 3.5 meters wide or 11.5 feet wide.
(2). First sub-woofer to one side of the screen or directly below the screen under the stage.
(3). Centre Speaker dead centre of screen, just below the screen.
(4). Two side speakers 3 meters or 10 feet back from the screen.
(5). Rear speakers 6.1 meters or 20 feet back from the screen and about 1 meter or 3 feet behind the seating area.
(6). Second sub-woofer directly behind the seating area.

I would like to mention so far we have NEVER really been able to enjoy the audio while watching a movie in this room. 
When ever we watch a movie in here, I promise you that every 10 minutes or so someone or other will ask *"What did he/she just say"* and it's beyond frustrating. 
However I must mention I have not used a digital Receiver/Amp in this Trophy room as yet, all I have used is my analogue Receiver/Amp which makes me wanna cry when I remember paying $6,000 for it ten years ago but I guess this will continue to happen due to technology regardless of the amounts we spend.
My real query and slight concern is how true is this Re: Digital Receiver/Amp will make the Audio & Video so much clearer, I have been told over & over that the analogue Rec/Amps are chalk & cheese apart when comparing them to a Digital Rec/Amp.
It scares me still, firstly and foremost because I have never been able to hear a quality Rec/Amp in this room, secondly I don't want to spend $10k to $20k if the digital Rec/Amp isn't going to improve the Audio enormously.

I want to make sure I am very clear when I use the word "Audio" 
The only audio that sounds poor and is frustrating in this room while watching a movie, it's the voices of the characters that's shocking and are very annoying at times. The rest of the sound system sounds AWESOME.
Lets face it when you have problems hearing what the actors are saying at times, theres nothing worse while watching a movie. 
Do you think it would make a great deal of improvement when it comes to hearing the voices of the characters if I chose to have two quality centre speakers rather then just the one centre speaker?

Cheers
Dean


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Wheels1974 said:


> I sincerely appreciate everything you have stipulated. I really like your idea about re-positioning the full mounts by moving them forward to where the sound is basically focused, as that is something that would be very easy to accomplish.
> 
> Regarding my rear CDM SNT (Wall mounted) speakers, they are not placed right at the back of the room at 14 meters or 46 feet. The rear speakers were mounted on my wall about 3 feet behind the seating area which is 6.1 meters or 20 feet from where the Screen will be.
> Once I looked at it and got a mate to measure a couple of things, the rear speakers will be dead in line to where the projector will be mounted, obviously the rear speakers are mounted to either side of the side walls so they are 5 meters or 16 feet per side away from the projector. To give you a better idea on how I envisage my speaker layout to be I made a quick list below.
> ...


IMO, you will be extremely pleased with Audyssey (or the calibration software for whichever AVR you choose) as it will be able to determine what levels your speakers need to be at. Once the calibration is done, if you are still having issues with hearing dialogue, I would suggest increasing the output level for the CC through the speaker level menu.

Plus, it won't cost you $10k to get a quality unit with the newest version of the calibration software. :clap:


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I have chronic tinnitus and have a miserable time with voices in movies. Since so much of the soundtrack and vocals are reproduced by the centre channel I believe it is the heart and soul of a theatre system and I purchase what I personally believe is one of the best without breaking the bank (Axiom VP180, however, my entire system is Axiom and my mains have the same drivers as the CC). I ran Audyessy and then boosted the CC 3 notches which works for me. Your current CC may be enough or I may not, prior to replacing or adding another I increase its output to the point where there isn’t a problem hearing the vocals and if at that point your finding the speaker is sounding strained (distorting) then look at an upgrade. As for placement of your collection and speakers, experimentation will be the key, such things as:

Raising and lowering the height of the CC and/or surround
Toeing in the mains
Repositioning the sub (YouTube “sub crawl”)
Repositioning your larger trophy pieces

As for the analog/digital amp question, is not the energy supplied by the unit that will make a difference, it’s the processing. Going from Dolby prologic to Dolby True HD is a significant jump imho. That and the need for some type of equalization in your space begs for a unit with Audyessy XT32 and since you will be running two subs Audyessy Sub EQ HT will be beneficial. Of course you can go beyond this automatic EQ and have your system EQed with computers, mics and programs such as REV but that takes a lot of time, patience and knowledge. All that being said if you can find yourself and Integra DRT-80 for a good price you should be very happy.

Another thing to look into is the amount of light you screen will output. Now looking at specs on projector central I see the Optoma HD33 will put out 9fl when placed 20 feet from a screen, however, the Evo 3D fabric is supposed to have a gain of 1.26 which should take the FL up to 12 which is the minimum recommended. But, there is another wrinkle, 3D glasses take away some light which will drop your fl below optimum, the solutions are:

a.	shorter throw (smaller screen)
b.	higher gain screen
c.	projector with a higher brightness
d.	leave as is and understand that 3D will be significantly “darker”


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

ALMFamily said:


> IMO, you will be extremely pleased with Audyssey (or the calibration software for whichever AVR you choose) as it will be able to determine what levels your speakers need to be at. Once the calibration is done, if you are still having issues with hearing dialogue, I would suggest increasing the output level for the CC through the speaker level menu.
> 
> Plus, it won't cost you $10k to get a quality unit with the newest version of the calibration software. :clap:


Once again thank you so much for your valued information. What exactly do you mean by saying 
*"I would suggest increasing the output level for the CC through the speaker level menu"*
Sorry mate I don't really understand much about the A/V world but find it interesting and if I don't ask questions I'll never know.

Originally as shown in my first post, I was looking to spend around $11,500 for everything such as Projector & 6 pairs of 3D glasses, Rec or Amp, Blu-Ray & cable. Not $10k just for a Rec/Amp.

Thanks again for your ongoing information & Advice
Regards
Dean


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Wheels1974 said:


> Once again thank you so much for your valued information. What exactly do you mean by saying
> *"I would suggest increasing the output level for the CC through the speaker level menu"*
> Sorry mate I don't really understand much about the A/V world but find it interesting and if I don't ask questions I'll never know.
> 
> ...


Sorry, Dean, getting into cold season up here and it knocked me out for a day or two. Andre probably did a much better job than I did explaining what I meant. After running the Audyssey software, you can go into your AVR menu and select something like "Speaker Level Adjustment". Every speaker will be listed and you then have the ability to increase the output level of each speaker individually. It is here that I would suggest increasing the Center Channel.


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

ALMFamily said:


> Sorry, Dean, getting into cold season up here and it knocked me out for a day or two. Andre probably did a much better job than I did explaining what I meant. After running the Audyssey software, you can go into your AVR menu and select something like "Speaker Level Adjustment". Every speaker will be listed and you then have the ability to increase the output level of each speaker individually. It is here that I would suggest increasing the Center Channel.


Sorry to hear you caught the cold, I caught a nasty dose of Bronchitis 3 weeks ago and after a week of trying to fight it, I had to admit myself in hospital, thankfully I was only in for 2 days and getting better each day. 
I hope you guys don't end up getting this nasty strain of Bronchitis that hit all of Australia pretty bad.

That sounds AWESOME and if that is all that is needed then I will be one very happy man. I know that once I purchase the A/V system it will include a full calibration although I have a mate who is right into A/V and when I had him over in my house for the first time he mentioned he could do something with each indervidual speaker volume.

I know with the Integra AVR 70.3 Receiver I was looking to purchase, I was told it comes with a microphone and some software so it calibrates your speakers for you. Is this Audyssey software the same sort of thing?
Does this Audyssey software run on ALL Receivers & Amps and all speakers? Where can I purchase this AUDYSSEY software & how much does it cost?


On another subject I got two A/V systems to chose from at the moment. I have made a full list of the two 2 systems below, sorry to repeat myself mate but any advice would be appreciated. 
What A/V system would you recommend. So far the only unit I know I will be getting is the Oppo BDP-95 Blu-Ray the rest im not sure about. 

I have to mention Yesterday after 10 long hours my cousin & father fully wired my trophy room. I added much more cable runs then I actually needed but thankfully now its done.

#: 1 A/V System
1 x Optoma HD83 Full HD 3D Projector. (Includes 2 pair of glasses)
1 x Optoma Genuine replacement lamp to suit HD83
4 x Glasses
1 x Ambertech G-2 Projector Wall mount
1 x Integra DTR 70.3 Receiver
1 x Oppo BDP-95 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Player
1 x 150" Majestic fixed frame screen, with Evo 3D fabric
1 x Gaffen Toolbox HDMI extender over Cat-6
1Pr x Audioquest Premium Pre-Terminated Speaker cable with Premium Audioquest connectors pre-fitted 
3 x 1m Audioquest Pearl HDMI Cable 
1 x Labour - Visit site, make connections, preform room calibrations for Audio & Vidio
System Price $11,252 AUD

#: 2 A/V System
1 x Sony VPL-30 Projector (Includes 2 pair of glasses)
4 x Glasses
1 x Flexmount Projector Mount
1 x NAD T777 AV Receiver
1 x Oppo BDP-95 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Player
1 x 150” Screen Technics Matrix Fixed Screen
1 x Binary CAT6 HDMI Baluns
1Pr x Transparent The Wave Speaker Cable
1Pr x Transparent The Link Interconnects
3 x 1m Wire Chroma 6 HDMI cables
1 x System Installation & Calibration (Based on up to 8 hours on work)
System Price $13,600 AUD

Regards
Dean


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Wheels1974 said:


> Sorry to hear you caught the cold, I caught a nasty dose of Bronchitis 3 weeks ago and after a week of trying to fight it, I had to admit myself in hospital, thankfully I was only in for 2 days and getting better each day.
> I hope you guys don't end up getting this nasty strain of Bronchitis that hit all of Australia pretty bad.


Yikes! Glad to hear you got everything cleared up.



Wheels1974 said:


> That sounds AWESOME and if that is all that is needed then I will be one very happy man. I know that once I purchase the A/V system it will include a full calibration although I have a mate who is right into A/V and when I had him over in my house for the first time he mentioned he could do something with each indervidual speaker volume.
> 
> I know with the Integra AVR 70.3 Receiver I was looking to purchase, I was told it comes with a microphone and some software so it calibrates your speakers for you. Is this Audyssey software the same sort of thing?
> Does this Audyssey software run on ALL Receivers & Amps and all speakers? Where can I purchase this AUDYSSEY software & how much does it cost?


That is the great news - most new AVRs are coming with this included - as a matter of fact, the Integra 70.3 has Audyssey XT32 on board which not only does a great job with speakers, it does well on subs too.



Wheels1974 said:


> On another subject I got two A/V systems to chose from at the moment. I have made a full list of the two 2 systems below, sorry to repeat myself mate but any advice would be appreciated.
> What A/V system would you recommend. So far the only unit I know I will be getting is the Oppo BDP-95 Blu-Ray the rest im not sure about.
> 
> I have to mention Yesterday after 10 long hours my cousin & father fully wired my trophy room. I added much more cable runs then I actually needed but thankfully now its done.
> ...


Choosing between the two options, I would probably go with the first - fir me, it really comes down to the Integra versus the NAD. I would take the Integra as it has XT32.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

As Joe stated the Audyssey calibration system is part of the software included with the Integra.

If I may I would like to edit your AV “1” list with these changes

1 x Panasonic PT-AT6000E (or the 7000 if you buy US)
Review: http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/projectors/1294366/panasonic-pt-at6000e-review-hands-on
Reasoning: Your dealer said Optoma has customer service issues in AU. Additionally, placement/adjustment may be more difficult due to minimal lense shift adjustment and manual focus of the Optoma. Panny is also brighter which is a benefit to 3D viewing

With the Panny’s Lens Memory function you can go from a 16:9 screen to a full Cinescope. http://www.ozts.com.au/cinemascope.htm

If you don’t need the IR extension you can go with the Gefen HDBaseT extender and save some $ http://www.gefen.com/kvm/dproduct.jsp?prod_id=10870

I am an atheist in the religion of high end cables. The Gefen units come with cables and will be fine, saves you some $ (just check on the cable if they are 1.3 compliant)

Does the calibration in the labor include an ISF certified calibration of the projector and receiver? http://www.ehow.com/about_6647292_isf-calibration_.html

A universal remote URC (Universal Remote Control inc) Digital R50 is a nice one

remote control light dimmer http://www.lutron.com/Products/Stan...-Switches/MaestroIRDimmer/Pages/Overview.aspx

Because of the size of your room I will recommend a second sub if it is within your budget. The SVS PC13 Ultra is a cylindrical sub that is easy to move around (did you look at the "sub crawl" video?) and looks cool to boot. http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_4/svs-pc13-ultra-subwoofer-12-2007-part-1.html

What did you cousin/father wire your room with?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

(1). Two from speakers either side of the screen which will be 3.5 meters wide or 11.5 feet wide.
You will probably have to "toe in" (angle inward) these speakers so the tweeters are aiming at the primary seating area, also try pulling them out from the wall 2-3 feet.

(2). First sub-woofer to one side of the screen or directly below the screen under the stage. 
placeing the subs in the corners of the room will increase their bass

(3). Centre Speaker dead centre of screen, just below the screen.
depending on how low the bottom of the screen is to the floor you may want to try to angle the speaker up a few degrees

(4). Two side speakers 3 meters or 10 feet back from the screen.
When sitting in the primary listening these will be on either side wall? i.e. on the right side it would be by the wild boar head? How far away from the primary listening area (your seat) are these speakers? B&W CNTs?

(5). Rear speakers 6.1 meters or 20 feet back from the screen and about 1 meter or 3 feet behind the seating area.
Looking at your pictures I don't see a wall behind the listening area, I see the pilar, the three couches (one up against the pilar, are there stands I don't see or is the second picture taken right up against the rear wall?
Currently while sitting in the primary seating area, if you turn your around can you easily see the rear speakers or is the back of the couch too high.

(6). Second sub-woofer directly behind the seating area. Again if possible see how the bass is if you put one sub in the front right corner and the other in the back left (or vice versa)


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

[/COLOR]


Andre said:


> (1). Two from speakers either side of the screen which will be 3.5 meters wide or 11.5 feet wide.
> You will probably have to "toe in" (angle inward) these speakers so the tweeters are aiming at the primary seating area, also try pulling them out from the wall 2-3 feet.
> Makes perfect sence, thanks.
> 
> ...


Noted

Your advice is very greatfully appreciated.
Regards
Dean


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

I couldn't attach the photo's of the rear photo's that i took... :coocoo:
Regards
Dean


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Andre said:


> As Joe stated the Audyssey calibration system is part of the software included with the Integra.
> 
> If I may I would like to edit your AV “1” list with these changes
> 
> ...


Firstly thanks a TON for all that info, PLEASE feel free to edit the A/V list. Most of what you suggested is pricless information:T as the projector is something I want to get right and I'm really struggling as to figure out what projector is the best on the market for both 2D & 3D as many movies will be watched in both 2D & 3D I personally love 3D as much as I love 2D.
Is there a site or forum that have something like the Top 10 2D & 3D projectors. 

Please note at this stage I'm also not 100% sure if it's true that Optoma's customer service is bad in Australia, im only going by what I was told by the last AV dealer I called. 

The first two AV dealers that I went to both said that the Optoma HD83 is by far the best projector on the market within that price range, I was also told by one dealer, that he took home 4 different projectors and set them up and after everything was set up he asked a couple of friends and his family to pick the clearest projector in both 2D & 
3D and ALL of them chose the Optoma HD83 and he said he had a $12,000 projector in those 4 demos that he done which wasn't no where as clear as the HD83, he also told me the name of that $12,000 projector but I forgot what it was. 

However is saying that I just read some reviews on the PT-AT6000E (EUROPE) which is the PT-AE8000U (USA) the PT-AT7000E is $3,300 here now in Australia which is Panasonic's last years model. 
Unfortunately I don’t see anything online saying that the PT-AT6000E or PT-AE8000U will be in Australia, im guessing it could take anywhere from 3 months to a year before it hits Australia. 
I must say I absolutely LOVED what I read and seen via video on Youtube about this projector. 
The only thing I don't like is how it's lens sits to one side rather then central however it has plenty of placement/adjustment. I love it's added features to improve the 3D image. 
It's best feature by a long shot from my understanding with the PT-AT6000E or PT-AE8000U is if you have a 16:9 screen and if watching a movie filmed like 95% movies are these days in 2.35 the projector either automatically fills the screen eliminating the black lines on the screen or you might have to push a button on the remote for this to take effect, either way its a MASSIVE bonus to have. 
It's priced at 3,000 British pounds but I can guarantee you it wont be under $6,000 here in Australia. 

Would you still chose the Panasonic PT-AT6000E or PT-AE8000U ahead of the Optoma HD83 even if Optoma's customer service was great in Australia? 
Also for what its worth, I don't mind paying around the $6,000 to $6,500 for a projector if I know that the projector is excellent in 2D & 3D but when you go by price it's important to realise that a $4,000 Projector here in Australia will only be around $2,000 in the USA so if you can some how check the Australian prices as well it would be greatly appreciated. Remember im going for a large screen 150" and that the projector will be mounted about 6.1 meters or 20 feet from the screen.

You asked me "Does the calibration in the labour include an ISF certified calibration of the projector and receiver?"
I all honesty, I have no idea mate.

I will defiantly have to get a universal remote and will check out the Digital R50 but keep in mind that I need a universal remote that is going to be VERY VERY SIMPLE to use, because my parents are in there 60's and they cant even turn a computer on. 
Due to my high disability I very much doubt that I could use most of the universal remotes on the market today because most are touch screen that only work using your finger tip. If they had a Universal remote that had chunky buttons then I could use that just as I use my current TV remote but it would need to be able to learn about 8 remotes. 
I operate everything using a stick in my mouth, so im typing this now using a stick in my mouth (I hate voice activated software) I prefer to type it manually when it comes to operating my computer, I hate voice activated software for 2 reasons, firstly many times it doesn't recognise what you say and ends up typing something totally diffrent, secondly if I didn't type myself I would get so lazy that I would end up forgetting how to spell. :scratch:
However I do have a universal remote for my TV in my bedroom which I operate also using my mouth, I will need to get another one just for this room as this will need to hold many remotes such as my Projector, Amp, Ble-Ray, DVD recorder and Set top box or Pay TV. This is the universal remote that will work great for me in this room. http://www.tecsol.com.au/PROGC.htm 

To complicate matters more at first I was going to have my projector on all day because most days I have my TV on for 10 hours a day, so I came to the conclusion BAD move. 
So I still want to purchase a 60 inch LED TV also and either have it on a special fold away bracket or I could have my 60" LED TV bolted to my rock wall, but that would mean that I would then need to get a electronic projector screen in order for the projector screen to go in front of the LED TV but to be honest im not real keen on getting a electronic projector screen especially when your talking 150" I cant help but feel things will go wrong with it, the less electronics the better is my motto, not to mention I quite like the fixed screens. 

I also want to get a Multi media player with a 3 or 4 TB hard drive because I record a lot of horse races but I am wanting to be able to make folders for each HORSE so to speak and then each time that horse races I can record its race under a file that has been named that horses name.
I guess it's like having a folder for all the different genre's in movies such as: COMEDY, THRILLER, HORROR, BIO, DRAMA & so on. I'm sure this can be done right? 

I will be getting a 2nd Sub but to be honest I have a 2nd Sub and am hoping to use that. Its 21 years old but if its no good I will purchase a new one or the The SVS PC13

My Cousin and father wired my room with Cat-6 & RG6 cable, I will be using HDMI extenders at the end of the Cat-6. I also ran 2 speaker cables of 12 AWG OFC to the back of my pillar just in case I want to put 2 extra speakers on the lower part on the pillar which is only 3 feet wide but its literally directly about 4 feet behind the seating area because at the time I thought that would allow me to get better positioning for rear speakers so I thought I would run the speaker wire just in case, even though its probably a silly idea.

P.s. I tried loading the photo of my rear speakers but for what ever reason it isn't loading. 

Thank you so much for all your input you have helped me allot already if you have more advise please keep it coming.
Regards
Dean


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

_“So from the Front speakers to the side speakers would be 9 feet and from the side spekers to where the seating area is would also be 9 feet and the rears would be about 3 feet further behind the seating area but *on the side walls*” _

A few things to consider:

Your side surrounds may be a little muffled due to the trophies hanging on either side of them, try to keep at least 3 feet of open wall to either side.

Your Rear surrounds though further away are still at the sides and will not radiate their sound properly as they should be “aimed” at the listening area. You can probably accomplish this by mounting them on a mount that extends out from the wall and pivots towards the listening area. Or, you can move your rear surrounds to the pillar where you can attach a 3 foot long bracket to either side, hang and angle them down to the listening area.

_“Is there a site or forum that have something like the Top 10 2D & 3D projectors”_
www.projectorcentral.com also you can find prices from US stores, you would have to call them to see if they deliver to AU.

"_I was also told by one dealer, that he took home 4 different projectors and set them up and after everything was set up he asked a couple of friends and his family to pick the clearest projector in both 2D & 
3D and ALL of them chose the Optoma HD83 and he said he had a $12,000 projector in those 4 demos that he done which wasn't no where as clear as the HD83, he also told me the name of that $12,000 projector but I forgot what it was." _

Question is whether the projectors were demos with “out of the box” i.e. default settings or were they all properly calibrated. If I remember correctly the Optoma are adjusted at the factory to look very nice right out of the box, for those plug and play types. 

_"You asked me "Does the calibration in the labour include an ISF certified calibration of the projector and receiver?"
I all honesty, I have no idea mate."_

IMHO not getting a projector calibrated via an ISF certified specialist is like getting your hands on the Holden Efijy and showing it off to people in a dark garage, especially the Panny which loves to be tweaked.

_Would you still chose the Panasonic PT-AT6000E or PT-AE8000U ahead of the Optoma HD83 even if Optoma's customer service was great in Australia?_

For me personally Yes, to have cinescope in a room of that size would be awesome imho… Also the motorized zoom and adjustments make life a little easier. BUT if as you said you would have to wait 3 months to a year to get the latest Panny (8000U) I would re examine the Optoma comparing it to last years modle Panny (7000) if its available, Also if the price difference is exorbadant and over budget I would have to reevaluate sadly..:crying:

_"I will defiantly have to get a universal remote and will check out the Digital R50 but keep in mind that I need a universal remote that is going to be VERY VERY SIMPLE to use, because my parents are in there 60's and they cant even turn a computer on." _

Once the remote is programmed via a computer its operation should be simple (one button to turn everything one and set the input/outputs) here is a review of the R50 along with the website with review for many many others. http://www.remotecentral.com/reviews/urc_r50/index.html

In your specific case I would also contact a home automation installer that carries such companies as Control4, AMX, Crestron, Savant to see if any of the touch screens can be activated using a probe such as a stick. The cost will be considerably more but the convenience of having everything from the HT equipment to the lights to the heat..etc may be worth it to you.

Lol just like me to start responding before reading the whole paragraph. I can see that that tecsol remote should work beautifully for you..

_Reference buying a 60" LED TV:_

There is another option, there are projectors that have LED lamps that last for years. Here is a link to a inexpensive one that I have never seen tested as its new to the market. Considering the price I wouldn’t say the quality would be fantastic but also considering the price it may be worth a gamble. You could mount it just underneath the main one. This way you use the same screen for both. http://www.pylepro.com/store/viewitem.asp?sku=PRJ3D89 

_“I also want to get a Multi media player with a 3 or 4 TB hard drive because I record a lot of horse races but I am wanting to be able to make folders for each HORSE so to speak and then each time that horse races I can record its race under a file that has been named that horses name.
I guess it's like having a folder for all the different genre's in movies such as: COMEDY, THRILLER, HORROR, BIO, DRAMA & so on. I'm sure this can be done right?” _

I am sure it can, however you will have to find yourself a computer geek that can build you an HTPC and configure some multimedia software to do what you looking for. XMBC is a free software that may be up to the task but I am not sure.

“One is glad to be of service” (movie reference)


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

andre said:


> _“so from the front speakers to the side speakers would be 9 feet and from the side spekers to where the seating area is would also be 9 feet and the rears would be about 3 feet further behind the seating area but *on the side walls*” _
> 
> 100% correct
> 
> ...


 "bicentennial man"???


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

It's amazing what 24 hours does. 
I just typed "When is the Panasonic PT-AE8000 due to arrive in Australia" in Google and im now finding Australian sites at least recognising that there is a new Panny. On Google there is a site called: "Panasonic PT-AE8000E projector $4,999 - Hot.com.au" 
However when you click on the site, which is: http://www.hot.com.au/price/panasonic-pt-ae8000-projector 
It stipulates this on there site: "Be the first to know when the Panasonic PT-AE8000 is officially released in Australia! Contact us to get on our notification list and find out as soon as we've got pricing and stock available"
So that price of $4,999 is not accurate enough to go by at this stage although I'm guessing it will cost around that mark. The 7000 is $3,300 here today. I can imagine how cheap the 7000 is in the USA. On a different topic to give you a idea a BMW 328i Sedan costs $66,500 stock standard here in Australia, in the USA they cost half the price, it makes me want to:crying: 

On the posative side of things, after seeing this I think they will be here within the next 1 to 3 months at the latest. I don't mind waiting that long.

What I have a slight concern with on the PT-AE8000 is because my projector will be wall mounted on a 18 inch pillar, my real concern is because the lens is not in the centre, will I be able to make up the difference using the image shift. 
The projectors dimensions are: 5.9" x 18.5" x 14.3" (HxWxD) So the projector will be slightly wider then my pillar which is fine as the projector will be on a bracket sticking slightly away from the pillar.
However its Lens shift is +/-100% Vertically, and +/-26% Horizontally. 

I'm not sure if that +/-26% Horizontally lens shift will be enough. I'm not totally sure if a 150" screen comes into account when dealing with lens shift also?

Regards
Dean


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

many many projectors have off centre lenses I can't see this being a factor when aiming it straight forward.

Your screen would be 2.35 and would have a masking system. Now you can view a 16:9 or 4:3 picture without a masking system but it woudn't look a nice because the picture would "bleed" into the white screen on either side. Masking systems can be manual or automatic, however, I would not be able to advise you on their costs. perhasp the company http://www.ozts.com.au/cinemascope.htm can advise you. I know this is all adding up so I can understand that the Optoma is starting to look better financially. The only alternative to using a masking system that I know of is going with a black screen such as one from screen innovations (Black Diamond) but I don't know if that is available in AU http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...eens-work-bright-rooms-cedia-expo-2012-a.html Review: http://www.hometheater.com/content/screen-innovations-black-diamond-ii-hd-projection-screen






There are a couple of other vidoes on youtube but unfortunately they are not in english.

I also wondered about the remote can it be programed that it does multiple different things with one key press? i.e. Pressing A, Turns on the projector, turns on the receiver, turns on the bluray, adjust the video inputs/outputs of the receiver/projectors, lowering the lights. Pressing B does all the remote functions to adjust the componets to watch TV..etc. etc.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Reading more about the black screen I can see how it would be very benefical to you especially if you room won't be completely dark for watching. http://www.trustedreviews.com/screen-innovations-black-diamond-zero-edge_Projector_review


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Andre said:


> many many projectors have off centre lenses I can't see this being a factor when aiming it straight forward.
> 
> Your screen would be 2.35 and would have a masking system. Now you can view a 16:9 or 4:3 picture without a masking system but it woudn't look a nice because the picture would "bleed" into the white screen on either side. Masking systems can be manual or automatic, however, I would not be able to advise you on their costs. perhasp the company http://www.ozts.com.au/cinemascope.htm can advise you. I know this is all adding up so I can understand that the Optoma is starting to look better financially. The only alternative to using a masking system that I know of is going with a black screen such as one from screen innovations (Black Diamond) but I don't know if that is available in AU http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...eens-work-bright-rooms-cedia-expo-2012-a.html Review: http://www.hometheater.com/content/screen-innovations-black-diamond-ii-hd-projection-screen
> 
> ...


 That would be very very handy to say the least especially for someone in my situation but to my knowledge there isn't anything like that on the market.


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Andre said:


> Reading more about the black screen I can see how it would be very benefical to you especially if you room won't be completely dark for watching. http://www.trustedreviews.com/screen-innovations-black-diamond-zero-edge_Projector_review


 My Trophy Room gets almost pitch black when everything is shut and with no lights on. 
When walking in the room there are 2 large windows on the left that have electric shutters which block out 95% of the light and when the curtains are drawn there's no light at all entering the room from these 2 windows.
On the right side I have 3 small windows that are 2 feet wide by 7 feet high, each window are always closed with timber Venetian blinds which still let in a little light on that right side, as I just closed all blinds, curtains, lights and TV off just to see how much light actually enters the room through these 3 small windows. 
The best way to explain it would be to say a little light enters the right side from these 3 windows as I can see that the rock wall is a little brighter on the right side compared to the left side. The room it self I wouldn't say gets to pitch black once everything is off, but the room is defiantly very very dark once everything is closed. 
If I turn my 60" rear projection TV on, you still need to watch where your walking otherwise you'll walk into a animal. 

To give you a better idea, there is no way you can read a thing if your sitting even 10 feet away from the TV while its on, no matter how big the TEXT is on your book. It's fair to say this room is as dark, actually id even say its darker then any cinema with my 60" rear projection TV on. However in saying that everything else is closed and off in the room. 
So it might not be worth me just concentrating on just a Black Diamond screen unless they are one of the best screens on the market while in a very dark room 

Regards
Dean


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Andre said:


> Reading more about the black screen I can see how it would be very benefical to you especially if you room won't be completely dark for watching. http://www.trustedreviews.com/screen-innovations-black-diamond-zero-edge_Projector_review


I just wanted to let you know that I just found a Black Diamond distributor here in Australia. 
This is there link: http://networkav.com.au/screens 

I'm going to email them and ask them how much will it cost for a 150" Motorized Black Diamond screen that is excellent for both 2D and 3D. As far as I can understand when purchasing a BD screen there is no need for masking.

* I copied this and pasted it below, what BD stipulate. I don't really understand why BD screens don't need to be masked*
* Screen Innovations has a competitive range of screens for any Video application. 
* Aspect ratios include 4:3, 16:9, 16:10, 2:40 and 235:1 
* Size from 80-215 inches * when using the Black Diamond screen no masking is needed 
* reference screens are available in 6 different materials; including woven acoustic transparent 
* curved screens available in 2:35 & 2:40 for a true home cinema experience 
* 2K, 4K & 3D ready

When I hear back from them with a quote, I will let you know. I may fall off my chair when I see the price... :dontknow:

Regards
Dean


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Sorry I haven’t responded in a bit, I had a problem with my shack account and was locked out….sob..

Between the Integra and the NAD I would still choose the Integra because of the Audyessy room EQ

The Panny 8000 allows you to change the aspect ratio of the movie to fit how it was filmed. I.e. if it was filmed 16:9 you wouldn’t “expand” it to 2.35 as you would see the picture “stretched” and it wouldn’t look good. However, if the film was done in 2.35 and you watched it in 16:9 you would “lose” the extra picture that 2.35 provides (i.e. the picture would be cropped). So the project lets you maximise to 2.35 IF that aspect is available in the recording your have. The movie packaging should tell you how the movie was recorded.

So if your movie is inherently 16:9 and you watch it on a White 2.35 screen without a masking system your picture isn’t a crisp rectangle, the masking system is black and absorbs the light coming from the projector giving you a nice edged screen. Without that the extra white sides of the 2.35 screen reflects the light which in turn can bleed out the colors and the brightness of the edge of the movie, decreasing the wow and awesomeness..

The Black Diamond doesn’t need the masking system because it’s “Black”. Normally this would be ludicrous because a black screen will absorb all the light of the projector and you wouldn’t be able to see a picture, however, they figured out a way around that, don’t ask me how, its supposedly a company secret, but whatever they did according to reviews it works. Additionally, and this is good for you, you can watch a movie without having the room in pitch darkness for the best picture. You can have ambient lighting so that you can move around without bumping into anything.

A professionally programmed system remote from AMX, Control 4, Savant, and Creston will be able to store multiple functions in one push of a button. Example, you’ve put the DVD into the machine and have now placed yourself dead centre to watch. Your control could have a button that is labelled “watch movie”. You press this and:

The lights dim, the screen comes down, the receiver turns on, selects the appropriate input, the blu-ray starts playing. You can have another button for “Pause” which pauses the movie and brings up the lights….with the right dimmer and switches you can do almost anything your heart desires.


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## Wheels1974 (Sep 24, 2012)

Andre said:


> Sorry I haven’t responded in a bit, I had a problem with my shack account and was locked out….sob..
> 
> Between the Integra and the NAD I would still choose the Integra because of the Audyessy room EQ
> 
> ...


Andre,
Glad to see you have worked things out with your Shack account, welcome back mate.
I am strongly considering getting a screen in 2.35 because I will be watching movies on this most of the time and from all my research 80% of movies are recorded in the 2.35 aspect ratio, that's really the only reason why I'm leading towards a screen in 2.35

I have decided against Black Diamond, they quoted me $15,000 for a motorised screen in 147" they said they don't go bigger then 147" and there motorised screen isn't even tentioned which I think is far to expensive. 
If my room had problems with controlling ambient light then I can totally understand looking into the Black Diamond screen but because I can control the light theres no way I'll be paying that much.

I got a quote from Technics Screens, they quoted me $6,940 for a 170" screen in 2.35 with Matrix white and flocking with motorised dual masking, it's there top of the line screen. They genrally don't go larger then 150" which is $5,940 but they said that they will do a 170" if that's what I wanted.

I LOVE the sound of that AMX remote control, that would make life a little easier and will make note of that.

I have been reading more and more about the Sony 95ES, almost all the reveiws I have read about it mention that when watching 3D then its reccomended that the screen is no larger then 100" for 3D viewing due to the darkness. I really started to like what I read about this projector apart from that fact. 
I really want to go and look at this Sony 95ES and see it projecting a image within the next couple of weeks.

I also want to check out the Epson TW9000 because I need a black projector, the more common Epson TW9000W is white and most people I speak to have never heard of the Epson TW9000, The differences being that the TW9000W is white and ships with a WirelessHD transmission system while the 
TW9000 is black and doesn’t support wireless video transmission.

Regards
Dean


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

You will have to pick your projector Before you order a screen. The reason being is that the company you buy from will have to calculate the screen Gain (the higher the gain the more reflective, lower brightness projectors will require a higher gain screen). The screen brightness you will want to hit is about 14FL at the screen minimum for 3D viewing.

You will want to make sure the projector you purchase will be able to project an image of the size you wish at the distance it will be placed (different lenses and zoom ratios will make this different from projector to projector)

If the projector you purchase does not have a power zoom freature that allows the automatic adjustment from 16:9 to 2.35 you will have to purchase an anamorphic lens (which will need a special mount, and will also have to be motorized which will cost big $$). I don't know which others besides the panny that has this feature.

Doing a Feature search on www.projectorcentral.com I asked for

1080 HD, Full 3D, 170" image at 20foot throw distance, Power Zoom, Power Focus, Vertical & Horizontal lens shift, with a price under 3k and only got the Panny 7000/8000 and the JVC DLA-RS40


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