# Amp question



## fernalfers (Nov 29, 2007)

Right now i have a Yamaha RX-V1700 receiver rated at 130 watts per channel. I am powering Onix X-LS speakers for fronts and an Onix X-CS for center. My rear surrounds are HTD level 3's.

Now i was wandering into the power amp route. Now i need suggestions. Shouls i get a monoblock amp to power my Center one that is bridgeable? If so any suggestions?

And for the fronts what is a good 2 Channel Amp to power those? I want to try to stay under 200.00 for the 2 channel amp as well as the Monoblock amp.

Secondly would i benefit from doing so?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Yamaha is more than capable of driving all your speakers but, there is always an advantage to driving your mains with an external amp one of them being if you do run your system loud in some instances there may be allot of sound being sent to all 7 channels at the same time. There is not a receiver out there in a reasonable price range that can do this under full load it just cant get the power required from the transformer. Having an external amp will remove the load of the main channels off the receiver and thus giving you even better response. There is really no need to do the center channel as most of the dynamics to a movie are in the main left and right speakers.

As far as an amp for two channel, there are many to choose from. Look for Amps using Toroidal Power Supply's as they are very good. Other good brand names are Samson, NAD, Carver, Sunfire, QSC, just to name a few.


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

What aspect of performance are you trying to improve? If it's more output, to get perceptibly just noticeable 3dB more output from a given speaker, you need to double the input power. 

-Brent


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

For your $400 budget (amps for mains and center) it is unlikely you will achieve any discernable improvement. However, if as suggested you put all $400 into powering the mains, there are some possibilities that could enhance your listening. A Tapco Juice J2500 for $400 to power your mains would take a big load off of your receiver and you should be able to hear a significant difference.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Sonny just posted in group buy that the Behringer EP2500 is $250 shipped at Guitar Center:

EP2500 at Guitar Center


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## fernalfers (Nov 29, 2007)

Do you think that amp would be overkill for my speakers? Or is there such a thing


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

You can never have enough clean power. I have 400 wpc available for my stereo. You would need at least twice the 130 wpc of your Yamaha to make much of a difference in volume. However having more dynamic headroom is probably the best reason for adding some more good clean power to your system.


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## fernalfers (Nov 29, 2007)

So do you believe the Behringer EuroPower EP2500 would be a good choice for a 2 channel amp for my system? If so i will buy today... Exactly how much power does the Behringer put out into each channel at 8 ohms?


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

The Behringer EP2500 produces 450 wpc into 8 Ohms at 20Hz-20kHz and 0.1% THD. The only thing that may be of a concern is the noise produced by its fan, but there are easy mods to address that. I personally prefer the Tapco Juice series with the J1400 for $300 producing 310 wpc into 8 Ohms at 20Hz-20kHz and 0.03% THD, or the J2500 for $400 producing 575 wpc into 8 Ohms at 20Hz-20kHz and 0.03% THD.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

How's the fan noise on Tapco?


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## fernalfers (Nov 29, 2007)

Listen you guys know better then myself but i talked to a guy at the guitar store and he said that i have to make sure my speakers are rated to handle that many watts, Is this true? he said if i provide to many watts to a speaker that isn't rated to take in that much could blow my speakers.

The last thing i want to do is blow my speakers. Any input?


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

fernalfers said:


> Listen you guys know better then myself but i talked to a guy at the guitar store and he said that i have to make sure my speakers are rated to handle that many watts, Is this true? he said if i provide to many watts to a speaker that isn't rated to take in that much could blow my speakers.
> 
> The last thing i want to do is blow my speakers. Any input?


Most likely your car will exceed any posted speed limit in the US. Do you *have* to exceed a given speed just because you can?

You should be able to hear the bad noises start before you actually damage your speakers...just don't turn the system on with the volume knob set to '11'. 

You still haven't told us what you're trying to improve about the 1700's onboard amps. If you're not looking for more output, I doubt your going to find any sound quality improvements. 

You don't mention a subwoofer. The money you're considering for an external amp would be better spent on a subwoofer, IMO. By applying bass management, you would remove the most power demanding frequency range from the 1700's amps as well as asking the XLS' to play frequencies they weren't really designed for. A win-win.

-Brent


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

Brent S gave you good advice. I also doubt that an amp such as the ones you're considering will improve your overall sound. Actually, IMHO it will sound worse as I think the quality of the amp built into your receiver is better...Now, I'm not saying it won't go louder, just that it won't sound as good (again, IMHO)...but hey, if you can get a 30 day return policy on it; try it maybe you'll like it. Do let us know; I for one will be very curious...not that if it will sound louder: It will...but if it will sound better. Personally, I think Brent S advice is much more sound...Ooh, goodie; sound advice! :bigsmile:


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## fernalfers (Nov 29, 2007)

I have an SVS 16-46Pci Cylinder Sub. And this is why i'm here i really appreciate everyone's opinions. And like i said i'm new to this HT stuff. I guess i thought an amp with a legitimate amount of watts per channel would make my system sound a little crisper and make the sounds more present while taking some load of the receiver. But if this will not happen then thanks for saving my money.

Maybe i'm better off saving and buying a real good set of speakers.

It's just hard because you get some that say an Amp will make a difference and others that say it won't. I guess it is a little confusing.


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

fernalfers said:


> It's just hard because you get some that say an Amp will make a difference and others that say it won't. I guess it is a little confusing.


Welcome to "subjective" comparisons. It's easy to hear a difference, especially when we spend our money and expect or want to hear a difference.

Years ago, I read a Stereophile review where the reviewer claimed to hear a difference between two samples of identical speakers, some Thiel model if I remember correctly. He attributed the improved sound quality to the different wood species used for the veneer finish...it had a tighter grain. Let's just say I'm skeptical.

And for the record, I do run separates myself. And I'm absolutely sure I heard a difference when I brought home a *$1200 THX certified *Adcom and plugged it into the preamp outputs on my *$800 *Yamaha RX-V850 Dolby Pro-Logic receiver. :spend: Many years later and with much more experience, I'm pretty solidly in the camp that says two amplifiers with the same frequency responses working within their designed power limits will sound the same, all else being equal. Now if you're pushing one amp to it's power limit or drop a hard to drive low impedance speaker on it, that's not equal. That's why I kept repeating the question about what you wanted to improve.

By all acounts, the HTD and Onix speakers are quite the solid performer and that SVS is still among the category leaders. You'll likely spend a pretty penny finding even a small improvement, unless those speakers weren't really a good match for your tastes to begin with. Speakers are much more subjective than any other component in the chain. To scratch that itch, I recommend proper calibration (audio & video) and experimenting a bit with room treatments, if you haven't already. Get real familiar with the sound of your system, then spend a few weekends going to various dealers and checking out their demo rooms. 

The audio system in my dedicated theater room (built over many years), including that THX Adcom, probably costs 8x-10x more than my living room system that's built around a little Pioneer 516 that I picked up for $100 on a BF deal. I'm pretty sure I can tell some difference in the sound quality between the two, but they're in very different acoustic environments. I'd hate to bet large sums of money on being able to tell them apart in blind listening unless I could pick the source material and control the volume level. 

-Brent


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## fernalfers (Nov 29, 2007)

Brent S.i really appreciate you taking the time to reply to my post and giving me some of the insight i did not have till your posts. Everything you say makes perfect sense. I will remain with the system that i have and will spend sometime calibrating the audio because that is something i have not done yet.

I guess i was looking for an easy upgrade for sound and now realize it isn't that easy.

I also thank you for saving my money:whew:

Down the road i think i will upgrade to the AV123 Rocket series Signature 850's for the front and the RSC200 Bigfoot for my center. Then i'll go from there.

And for everyone else who posted thank you.


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