# Denon 2809



## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

I am a newbie. I have had this Denon 2809CI for some time now. But, when I play it loud it will shut down in 5-10 mins. Since new. I have Deftek BP7006 front, Deftek BP2002 center, and Deftek BP (?) 2004?:blink: ( bookshelf ) can not find the model# on them. I am looking at upgrading to a Denon 4520 or 3313. Any suggestions? Or something that can drive these speakers like they are meant to be?


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

I have the 3313ci and love it. You have to do firmware updates I've found for optimal performance. I power deftechs in a 7.2 and it is too loud past 70%. The room is 15x25. You can see in my build. Also it needs plenty of air.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

The Denon 3313ci with 125watts per should be plentyto drive 7.2 Def Tech speakers. I have the older Denon 3805 with 120watts with Focal subs and B&W satellites and I can drive at natural sounding levels with plenty to spare. You can buy Refurbs from Accessories4Less 3313ci for $629 and the 150watt 4520 for $1500. You may get a few extras in all areas of the 4520 but hardly worth the $900 extra or..., If i had the $2400 for a new Denon I'd throw a few more $$$ and buy a Krell

Regards


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Your current Denon AVR 2809CI is a little underpowered Bench tested it will do about 95watts into two channels and it drops from there as you run more. You might just be better off investing in an external two channel amp like the Emotiva XPA 200


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

ok. Since I am still try to learn about this audio stuff. I am running 2 front, 2 rear, and a center. Is this considered a 5 channel system that can do 7 channel? ( 2809CI ). Then my question is, 2 channel only runs 2 speakers?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yes , that is correct.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Hey Tom,

Tony has an interesting idea, especially if you plan on growing your system and who doesn't like that idea. My thoughts and I believe Tony' as well - Denon offers Pre-amp Outs on many of their models. Now you ask, what are the pre-amp outputs and what can be the advantage. 

Well on the back panel of many Denon AVR you will find RCA connectors that allow you to use the pre-amp section of the Denon amp and connect this pre-amp section of the Denon to your choice of power amps. You could buy a two channel power amp or a pair of exceptional quality monoblocks or a nice Krell 5 channel power amp or even 7 channel. This is an exceptional upgrade path.

Now with the reduced power demands on your Denon AVR power section you have greater available RMS wattage to divide between the fewer speakers being driven.

FYI - something to think about


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Thank you. I was going to ask, " how to connect an amp" thank you for your great mind reading skills. lol. The wife really does not appreciate audio like I would like her too.. So I have to keep things kinda on the down low, and sneak in a piece in here and there. And if she finds out, tell her it didn't cost much. It's ok honey. Let me show you how much better your favorite movie sounds. So I did look up the Emotiva. Looks like a great option.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Hey Tom

FYI - I do not know the history of your AVR I do not know if somebody has tinkered with this Denon 2908 or 2908ci. You should not attempt any changes until you are sure you understand the process completely and accept full responsibility. I cannot know the condition of your Denon AVR and I cannot watch to be sure you make proper connections.

You will find the location of "Pre Outs" on page #20 of your owners manual with a brief description, I believe. 

I understand the Emotiva equipment is nice and becoming popular. I like the prices. Hope you enjoy the results of your labor. 

Enjoy


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Gregr said:


> The Denon 3313ci with 125watts per should be plentyto drive 7.2 Def Tech speakers. I have the older Denon 3805 with 120watts with Focal subs and B&W satellites and I can drive at natural sounding levels with plenty to spare. You can buy Refurbs from Accessories4Less 3313ci for $629 and the 150watt 4520 for $1500. You may get a few extras in all areas of the 4520 but hardly worth the $900 extra or..., If i had the $2400 for a new Denon I'd throw a few more $$$ and buy a Krell
> 
> Regards


If you got a Krell you would then need a power amp too... I would be suprised if you could get Krell amp and processor for double the price of the Denon 4520. I am not saying the Krell is not better but that it is in a dif league. Personally if I had the kind of cash to buy Krell I would go Classe.


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Greg, I am not sure what you are talking about changes? Like connecting an amp? The 2809ci I have is a refurb. I have not used it much as I was involved in a move and hooked it temp after a year and a half. I have since moved it into the back tv room and it powers some cheap sony's. Just to get some tv and radio sound. I like the idea of the 3313ci, if it could drive the deftec's properly. The reason I was considering the 4520ci is because of the great write up from one of your great audio guys. Forget his name. It was recently?? Denon has 3 refurbs for $1500. But I don't need the extras? Just the power. On a budget.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Classe' is much more practical and reviewers speak highly. You are right about Krell it takes $$$ to own one, but for $2500 you can own a two channel 150 into 8ohms 300 into 4ohm (true wattage) integrated. For $7500 you can buy the Krell TAS a five channel amp 200w per. I've read of comparisons with Mark Levinson No.433 or a newer one I don't remember. Krell still the better review. We will never know unless we try. One day I will own a Krell. Maybe a small 2 channel amp I'll plug into my Denon Pre out (probably a used amp).


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Is 125W enough to drive the Deftecs for a clean and natural sound, and AC/DC, Judas Priest and such? With out shutting down.


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Also, what is the advantage of 8ohm speakers vs 4 ohm?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Normally 4Ohm speakers have more than one driver and a tweeter. This usually means a fuller sound. Bookshelves will generally be 8Ohm 
a 4ohm speaker needs less power to get loud (the lower the number the closer to a short it is) but because of the lower ohm's it will run the amps hotter.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Gregr said:


> Classe' is much more practical and reviewers speak highly. You are right about Krell it takes $$$ to own one, but for $2500 you can own a two channel 150 into 8ohms 300 into 4ohm (true wattage) integrated. For $7500 you can buy the Krell TAS a five channel amp 200w per. I've read of comparisons with Mark Levinson No.433 or a newer one I don't remember. Krell still the better review. We will never know unless we try. One day I will own a Krell. Maybe a small 2 channel amp I'll plug into my Denon Pre out (probably a used amp).


Years ago (2 channel days) I had the Classe 6 preamp and 2 DR10 power amps in bridged mode... AWESOME is all I can say!


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Thank you guys for all the info. I think I am going to go with the 3313ci refurb. and if I need a litttle more I will go with Tony's suggestion of the Emotiva. Refurb from Denon factory is $699, and from Accessories4Less $629. Probably best to get it direct from Denon?


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Does anyone know of a promo code for Denon I can use to get a discount on the 3313ci refurb?


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## chas (Jan 28, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> Your current Denon AVR 2809CI is a little underpowered Bench tested it will do about 95watts into two channels and it drops from there as you run more. You might just be better off investing in an external two channel amp like the Emotiva XPA 200


I like the idea of an external amp as I ran a couple different Emotiva's with a 2809 with good results (an old LPA-1 and an XPA-5). Can I ask where you found the bench-testing numbers on the 2809?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Most bench test results can be found here but they have not done a review of the 2809 that I found however Ive read enough reviews of comparable Denon's and other brands to know that a receiver that weighs 28lbs is not going to output more than about 80Watts per channel all channels driven.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Tom, 

Looks like your post got kidnapped for a bit..., it can happen, My apologies for my part in that.

Tom, the 3313ci has plenty of power to drive your Definitive Tech speakers. I am sure you will be happy. As far as the discount code I believe the discount is Accessories4Less. I don't know of any benefit in buying from the manufacturer in fact you would probably get better service from A4L, everything sent back to any factory is usually x10 in wait time (I could be wrong). I have recommended A4L several times and I have had no neg reports back. Bottom line, I have not talked to anybody at Denon to run the "what if" question, If I had maybe I would buy from the factory. 

Let us know about the sound quality..., or me anyway I am interested in the 3313ci. I like all of the newer connect options (HDMI 1.4) and AdysseyEQ-XT setup


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Now I've gone and done exactly what I did not want to do. I did not want to recommend any one retailer . 

Please do not listen to any of my recommendations. Use you judgement you have done all of the leg work in this . If you are comfortable with the Denon manufacturer then by all means buy from them.

If you were to buy from A4L and there was a problem I would..., well that would probably end my forum days. 

In any case this is your decision. There should not be an issue with buying from anybody. I'm anxious to hear how it sounds with your DefTech's though.

Regards


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

Agree with Gregr.. 3313 will power your needs. So will other though.

I bought my Denon from a cheap online retailer. Denon support had no problem when i had questions and warranted the product even though I didn't need it (firmware upgrade fixed). It was new from the retailer so I am not sure on refurb. Call Denon if you are unsure. My call to them took 2 mins.

My Father in Law had an issue 2 months ago with a 7 year old high end Denon (through integrator) and they still provided service at a decent rate.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Tom - I just reread this whole thread. I did not remember you've had the 2809 since new and with the same issue.

5 things:

1. the Denon 2809 with 115watts should drive the BP7006's 4 - 4.5" speakers and tweeters per channel.
2. how long of a run of speaker cable to each speaker, what gauge speaker wire
3. where do the BP7006's plug in for AC power e.g. are the power cords from the same source and equal 
in length - ever thought about Monster Powerline 300
4. have you been using the LFE (sub) connections on the BP7006's
5. What are the speaker settings (on the speaker sub amp) crossed over at 80hz - 100hz and is/was the 
Denon 2809 crossed over at the same

3313ci will give you all of the options you need to get the best out of your DefTech's


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

ok. Since I am going to be starting from new. I just ordered the 3313CI. What is going to be the best hookup? I have deftech book shelf speakers that look like SR-8040BP. Hung from the ceiling. I can not find the model number on the speakers. I bought them about 5 years ago. BP 7006 front and BP 2002 center. 14AWG that I ran through my ceiling and under the house. Please don't tell me I need to change it. Would be very hard. I think I had a "Y" ( not a cheap one ) hooked up for the subs somehow. LFE, because I just ran across it while looking at some connectors in a box. From rear spks, about 20ft of AWG 14. Front about 6ft. What is Monster Powerline 300? I will look it up after I send this?


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Where do you have your front left and right (BP7006) speakers plugged in for AC power?


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Before I moved, I think they were plugged into a power strip along with the TV, AVR, DVD Player, Sat box. But now, I have 2 outlets ( 4 places for plug ins ) on the same wall close by. Will it matter if the outlets are on the same breaker and or circuit? Thank you for taking this a step at a time. I really want to get things working correctly. I get my new refurb 3313CI delivered today. I have nothing plugged in or set up yet. Nothing.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Tom - 

As you know your 7006's have a 300watt amp ea. running the bottom end. I am not sure what the, amperes of current draw each will demand but this is written on the back amp plate of the 7006's. For these two amps I would give them as much breathing room as possible. I am talking about AC power. if these are digital or hybrid amps and you had just these two amps on a 15amp circuit by themselves you could probably play them as loud as you want, without issue. But now, if you add the Onkyo, the Onkyo is an 8 amps draw (Max). Your source components are small 2 or3 ampere/current draws each but you use them one at a time. All together you maybe close to maxing a 15 amp circuit (if your playing at Max).

Now comes the interesting part. The circuit breaker for the receptacle your system is on is probably the same as the wall receptacle to the left and to the right of your system. So whatever is plugged into these 3 OR MORE receptacles are added to the ampere demand on the breaker as well. This means you cannot use either one of these to plug the 7006's into if you ever want to max your system (only). The interesting part is if you plug the DefTech's too far from the the remainder of the HT/audio system there could be ground loop issues. What I mean is the power circuit to the 7006's (if on a seperate circuit) should be approximately the same length as the power circuit to the Onkyo and source components. 

I have 2 x 150 watt BASH (Digital) Sub amps, a Denon AVR, computer etc etc. I've never seen the circuit draw go over 12.5A but I feel you may be getting close.

You may want to talk with an electrician in your area about your options if you believe you are too close for comfort. I cannot tell you that if you total the amperage demands of all your equipment on one circuit you can divide that total by a number and if that result is less than the 15 or 20 amp breaker in your breaker box your OK. But logic can tell you what proportion of Max you can play or if you need an additional circuit.

So then what is your total system amperage Max draw???


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Ooops!! Don't forget to add your TV...


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Greg, kidnapped is correct. I was wondering??? I did call Denon factory, they were out and pointed me towards A4L. So I did. Good recom. from you.


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

You mean Denon AVR. Not Onkyo. ( oki doki ):bigsmile:


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

Checked the back of the spk. 375 watts, and fuse in spk is 3.2A 250V. Plate does not tell me amperage. Divide by what? Add all amperage together from all pieces and divide by the number of pieces? TV no amps listed on the back.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

What I'm trying to say..., and not very well, is; 

If you *add together* the *value of the fuses* (amperes or 3.5A)required to run each piece of equipment in your system this will *give you an idea of the circuit breaker you need* to run the system.

DefTech = 3.5A (amperes) x 2 = 7Amperes
Denon AVR 3313CI = 8A
Total = 15A

What does this number of maximum amps, for just these two pieces of your system listed above, say to you?

What I see is - you have the potential to max your circuit with just these two pieces.


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## tgeary00 (May 20, 2013)

You are correct. So, should I run an extention cord from another circuit? Until I can get an electrician to take a look. Because if the outlets are in series, then I don't think you can seperate them to a different breaker? I really don't know, I am just guessing.


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