# A line on some Onix Rockets



## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

I have a line on a speaker package from the now defunct manufacture AV123...

All from their signature line:

Onix Rocket
RS1000 (pair)
RSC200
RS250 MK II (pair)

They are not in perfect shape, just some cosmetic stuff. Would you pay $1000 for this 5 speaker package???? (No tax no shipping)

Here is some basic info on the models:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/30953178/Www-av123-Com-Rocket-Loudspeaker-Family-Comparison

Any input is greatly appreciated.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Dave just sold his Onix for $1300 for the 5.1. 

2 x AV123 RS550 
1 x AV123 RSC200 
2 x AV123 ELT525 
1 x AV123 MFW-15 Subwoofer 

I would say it would be a great deal depending on the condition of the speakers. If they are minor blemishes then you should probably jump on them. My neighbor actually picked up Dave's set and they sound great!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That certainly seems like a fairly good deal. What I would be worried about is Post Sales Support. Things like needing a new Tweeter, Woofer, etc.. I am not sure if this deal is from the Company as I have not been following them for some time, but if so, I would purchase backup Speaker Parts.
Cheers,
JJ


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks to you both, Im really tempted. Ive not looked closely at them yet but I did notice one of the towers had a nice scratch on the side. Post sales support would be non-existent, these are from a private owner who is going through a divorce and is being forced to reduce all assets. He sold me his Marantz 8002 for $700 which I would likely have to drag back across town to do some listening tests.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

That speaker package is definitely worth $1k, provided that everything works. Check the RS1000's woofer amps.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Yep, read lots of horror stories of them amps burning-up prematurely, especially in the non-signature line. Luckily it looks like the _drivers_ are still available from a guy in Canada if I find the need. Looking like a better and better deal, totally not in the budget tho.


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## flyng_fool (Apr 10, 2010)

For a grand for the whole package I'd definitely go for it. If the amp on the sub blows, just get another, they're not that expensive.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Bash 500W or 300W has been suggested in the past as a drop in replacement.

Some people run the RS1000 crossed over above 80 Hz only, with the amp off. If you have, or plan to acquire subwoofers, you will be fine.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

TypeA said:


> totally not in the budget tho.


Is it ever? I mean really?


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

I dont believe anyone in Canada has replacement drivers??

I do have some woofers for both the RS850/1000's and also the woofers for the RSC200, Tweeters for them are no problem. 



TypeA said:


> Yep, read lots of horror stories of them amps burning-up prematurely, especially in the non-signature line. Luckily it looks like the _drivers_ are still available from a guy in Canada if I find the need. Looking like a better and better deal, totally not in the budget tho.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks for all the input folks, much appreciated. Nice to know parts are readily available. Hopefully I get a chance to take a closer look at them soon.


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## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

I am still running 750 sigs (four) and a 200 first purchased a decade ago. They are still running strong although I do wonder what I'd replace them with if I ever had budget again (I got them before my house...and kids...and, you get the idea).


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## typ44q (Apr 7, 2008)

Yes I would pay $1000 for them. They are great sounding speakers and even though the company no longer exists you can still get parts and with the exception of the amp failing, speakers are very reliable as long as they are used properly.


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## RodK (Mar 30, 2011)

:devil: just do it!!!:devil:


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

RodK said:


> :devil: just do it!!!:devil:


I will 2nd that one :yay: 

They are still very good speakers with incredible finishes. 

I dont remember hearing much about the RS1000's amps going bad, there have been a few failures, but nothing any other manufacturer hasnt seen and nothing like the MFW debacle


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It is always fun upgrading Speakers. Moreover, I would guess that there will be an Online Company that will offer AV123 Replacement Parts as I do not think they Designed their own Drivers or even worked with Companies like Vifa, ScanSoeak, Focal, etc to have them make Custom Designed Drivers as some Speaker Manufacturers do.
Cheers,
JJ


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Its looking like tomorrow before Ill get a chance to look them over, seller is currently living in Orlando and only travels to the area for family. Is the fact that the speakers are being stored in a non climate-controlled environment (and have been for a while I suspect) cause for concern? Obviously, being Florida, it gets pretty hot and humid here so thought Id ask.


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

I would be more concerned if they were kept in a very dry climate as it could dry out the wood.

Just take a look at the veneer, you will more than likely find a few raised areas that are from nails under the veneer. I would say at this point they wont get any worse, I know mine havent. Also some very minor cracking the the finish is to be expected as they are not plastic, again most of this happens in the first year or so and really doesnt continue to get worse. What you see is what you will have at this point.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks much. I found the manufacture's cleaning instructions unusual: Wood can be cleaned with a soft cloth moistened with water, end caps can be polished with standard automotive carnauba-based wax.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

TypeA said:


> Its looking like tomorrow before Ill get a chance to look them over, seller is currently living in Orlando and only travels to the area for family. Is the fact that the speakers are being stored in a non climate-controlled environment (and have been for a while I suspect) cause for concern? Obviously, being Florida, it gets pretty hot and humid here so thought Id ask.


Hello,
That definitely is not ideal. With this being the case, it really would be ideal to hook up the Speakers before agreeing to purchase them. As it never leaves the 90's during the day and usually around 80 at night in the Summer and in the Winter is usually quite dry and not Humid, I would be somewhat hesitant depending on how long they have been in storage.

Fact is you already have some very nice Speakers. And now you are considering Speakers from a now defunct Company that left a trail of scams and QC issues with the Subwoofer in its wake.
Cheers,
JJ


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

> Hello,
> That definitely is not ideal. With this being the case, it really would be ideal to hook up the Speakers before agreeing to purchase them. As it never leaves the 90's during the day and usually around 80 at night in the Summer and in the Winter is usually quite dry and not Humid, I would be somewhat hesitant depending on how long they have been in storage.
> 
> Fact is you already have some very nice Speakers. And now you are considering Speakers from a now defunct Company that left a trail of scams and QC issues with the Subwoofer in its wake.



Oh, Ive already prepared him for us doing full listening tests of all five of the speakers. This will ensure proper operation and ensure that I like the sound. From all that Ive read the rocket line has a very unique sound, you either love it or hate it kinda thing.

The mod kits available for this entire line is unlike any Ive ever seen, everything from interior cabinet lining (like the mods I did with my Infinities) to cross-over upgrades and driver replacements. I was shocked there was so much available for a defunct product. The owner assured me that all speakers have the much improved "signature" cross-overs, with the tower cross-overs being upgraded further (also called being "Ninjafied").

As for my nice speakers now, yes, and with their mods they easily out perform stock but Ive found that they can get fatiguing. If the rocket reviews (both pro and user) are accurate, I will likely improve high and mid freq performance substantially and loose some performance in shear accuracy and imaging, I simply cant imagine a more accurate and better imaging speaker than the primus. Take with a grain of salt, I have a Bose background...


Home theater said this of the 760/250/200 package



> This is barely a drop in the high-end bucket, but well above entry level.


And secrets said



> We Are In Orbit The Rocket system took me to another level, though I never felt short of oxygen. Through dozens of movies and hundreds of music CDs, they never failed to do what we expect from accurate speakers—they simply "disappeared," letting the performances flow through them with the least intrusion. On many occasions, even when simply listening to National Public Radio news, I was taken aback by their clear, balanced, lifelike sound. I have not critically listened to a speaker system in my studio that was more able to make me forget my surroundings.


However I have read that they are not real accurate and hardly considered audiophile, but have excellent highs and very full and powerful mids with their array construction.

Im still open to thoughts and Im not on the hook to buy. Its merely an option. I figure the 7 speaker modified primus system I have may fetch $500, especially if I replace a pair of the 162s with a pair of modified 362s I have in zone 3, meaning Id be about $500 or $600 out of pocket for this upgrade. Im not attached to any of the primus line but they are good performers and, truth be told, entry level into audiophile grade...:sneeky:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It really sounds like you have a very sound plan of action.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

TypeA said:


> The owner assured me that all speakers have the much improved "signature" cross-overs, with the tower cross-overs being upgraded further (also called being "Ninjafied").


If the RS1000's have Ninja Xovers, I would be very supprised if the center RSC200 didnt have one also, if not, its almost a must have upgrade. At that price, you really cant go wrong as long as you like the sound.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

sandbagger said:


> If the RS1000's have Ninja Xovers, I would be very supprised if the center RSC200 didnt have one also, if not, its almost a must have upgrade. At that price, you really cant go wrong as long as you like the sound.


Owner stated it was a free upgrade to the Ninja on just the towers. I specifically asked and he stated it was ONLY the towers but that we could pull some drivers pre-purchase and verify all existing cross-overs. If I understood correctly, at the time of purchase the man doing the upgrades was still directly employed by av123. Whats puzzling is WHICH upgrade was installed? Apparently theres two versions of the upgrade for the 1k, $197 or $477. 

http://www.skiingninja.com/category-s/68.htm

Theres also dual upgrade options for the bigfoot, any advice and clarity on this matter would be greatly appreciated...like what does the price difference give you, is spending $322 really called for? It not a matter of the price really, more a matter of diminishing returns....but you tell me, please. 

http://www.skiingninja.com/category-s/66.htm


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

I believe the less expensive option is just new resistors and very high quality caps with sonicap bypass caps
The more expensive xover is much better caps along with foil ribbon inductors.

Your best bet is to email the ninja, sean is a very easy going guy and easy to talk to


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## Irishsaab (Jan 26, 2011)

So nice to see positive forum talk about AV123. Yes, the owner was a dick but from my experience their products have never given me any serious issue and I have picked up some awesome "imperfect" deals at their site before they closed the doors. And come on, who doesn't like the MFW-15!!!!! Well, at least after they fixed the amp meltdown issue... :crying:


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Most of those speakers were designed largely by Danny Richie, he does good work. I'm going to pick me up a pair of used X-Omni's this weekend or next. Those speakers have spooky good imaging.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

And Mark Seaton was a Consultant on the MFW15. Once the Plate Amplifier was changed out, it was a very good Subwoofer and an amazing value.


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

Actually danny only designed the X series, the rocket series was another person, although I think danny might have reworked the RS850/1000's and he was behind the ninja xovers. All the Ref speakers were done in china, but again danny worked with sean on the crossover upgrades.



tesseract said:


> Most of those speakers were designed largely by Danny Richie, he does good work. I'm going to pick me up a pair of used X-Omni's this weekend or next. Those speakers have spooky good imaging.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

sandbagger said:


> Actually danny only designed the X series, the rocket series was another person, although I think danny might have reworked the RS850/1000's and he was behind the ninja xovers. All the Ref speakers were done in china, but again danny worked with sean on the crossover upgrades.


That is why I said "most".  The name you are looking for is Dick Pierce, and you are correct, Richie was asked to do the Rocket Signature crossovers.

Danny did the ELT's, too, not just the "X" series. Then there is the Strata Mini... lddude:


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Finally got a chance to inspect and listen last night. Not ideal as I wasnt able to turn them up real loud, listened in a confined area and only the front three, the 1000s and bigfoot, were connected. In a word: warm. Outstanding detail and imaging, better than what I expected. Very smooth and laid-back presentation, fell in love with the highs immediately. Sloppy low end. Im used to extremely tight low end with my current system, obviously these Rockets would greatly benefit from the same mods I did to the Infinity cabinets. That slop I noticed might be where the powered woofers take over. Zero calibration in either the processing or woofer settings was done, so I take the slop with a grain of salt. 

I was shocked at the quality of construction, even the weight and quality of the grill construction took me by surprise. Towers have several scratches and a couple of small marks on the 250s. Far as I could tell all drivers work, including the powered woofers in both towers. We didnt pull drivers to verify the exact installed crossovers. None of the raised areas or cracking on the finish sandbagger mentioned was observed on any of the five speakers. Owner claimed that finish issue was more prevalent in the speakers constructed in South America, these Rockets are Chinese in origin. 

Package also comes with the center channel stand originally sold by av123, the wall mounting hardware for the 250s, 3 short and likely over-priced speaker cables and a nice acoustic research power strip. All grills are included and in good shape. Originally I was going to offer $1000 and keep the accessories but, considering I can use all but the short speaker wires and he's letting me make payments, I agreed to $1200. I take delivery tomorrow. My existing Infinity system is listed on craigslist, asking a reasonable price and hopefully they sell quickly. Girlfriend wont be pleased this large rocket package will be stored in her kitchen until the Infinities sell, such is life. I can already tell my low-end will require some experimentation to get right, especially since I have good subs and using the woofers in the towers are optional.


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

Sounds like you got a killer deal on those.

And if those were an early run that were built by SAC, they had a lot less problems with finish quality


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Originally I was going to leave the Infinities installed as it would make auditions for potential buyers easier, fraid that plan has changed. My current front left and right channels have wall brackets that must be completely removed before the new towers will fit, royal pain but the new rocket front stage will be installed tomorrow after I get them cleaned up. Have mon-wens off so will be doing some serious auditioning in the next few days, cant wait.

Sadly the rear channel speakers only came with the "launch pads" that attach directly to the bottom of the 250s, its just a black 1" plywood board with hardware and holes matched up for the OmniMount 30.0 and 250s. These pads didnt come with the arms that attach to the wall so that will be an extra $100 for the pair, apparently OmniMount is quite proud of them. Will order those in a few days but at least I get to check out the front stage for now...

The bigfoot center channel speaker and included stand cleaned up perfectly, very minor scratches on the grand-piano-style top and bottom end caps. Had automotive carnauba wax on hand so all the end caps will be waxed to within an inch of their life. The ascetics of these speakers are really a sight to behold, dust-magnets of the highest order, but still gorgeous in design and quality. Of course the grills needed a good vacuum and the wood cabinets are being cleaned with patience and a damp washcloth.

Luckily the scratches on the towers are all running _with_ the wood grain. Since the grain is a light red with black lines throughout I could almost get away with filling them in with a black permanent marker to make it look like just another black line in the wood grain. The scratches reveal the underside of the wood finish, which is pink in color, so scratches do stick out more than you would think. If anyone has a better idea on what I should use to cover these scratches, and youve survived reading this long tedious post, please feel free to mention alternatives, Im always open to suggestions. Ill get some close-up pics of the scratches posted to this thread sometime tomorrow.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Tyler,
Congrats on the new Speakers. Without a doubt, AV123 made some beautiful Speakers that sound wonderful. Moreover, what happened to the Company was not that they were making great products, rather some rather shocking actions taken by the CEO. It really is a shame as they had an unbelievably loyal fanbase quite similar to OPPO and Emotiva.

These Speakers will transform the appearance of your HT and I hope bring years of sonic bliss.
Cheers,
JJ


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Thanks Jack, I think Ill enjoy them.

Heres some before and after pics of the damage. Repairs being corrected with a Sharpie Permanent Marker Ultra Fine Point:

*Overall (only lower damage is apparent in this shot):*

















*Close-up of bottom damage:*

















*Close-up of top damage:*



















Of course in all 'after shots' the end caps have been waxed and wood has been polished with Pledge...


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
They look like $5000 Speakers. Truly beautiful. While the Primus's are amazing value and are very well engineered, they definitely do not look like those. Of course what matters most is the SQ, but as you are looking at your Speakers for hours upon hours it does not hurt for them to look like Furniture.
Cheers,
J


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Im certainly impressed.

Dont have the 250 rears hooked up yet but three channel still images better than all five of the Primus did, its a very unusual sensation from just a front stage. :blink: Determining the exact toe-in has been a little tricky, especially considering my room is so narrow and my screen is so wide, Im very limited. So far Ive found that an usually deep toe-in gives the best results, some pro reviews stated a very shallow or no-toe gave the best results, go figure. :scratch:

This rocket line is not supposed to be stellar for two channel music but they impressed me. Highs are so much smoother and mid range is unreal. Detail is only slightly better than the primus.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Watched the blu ray Rio last night using just the front stage (OmniMount 30.0 brackets for the rear channels should be here tuesday) and I just cant _believe_ the sound stage the front three speakers produce. Spent most of the movie wondering why the sound was extending _beyond_ the listening area, almost makes me wonder if rear channels will ruin the current effect. I rarely watch the end credits but the quality of music production kept me glued to my seat till the last song completed. Sorry, dont mean to gush but, man, going from the Infinities to the av123s was an unbelievable upgrade for me.


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## RodK (Mar 30, 2011)

Aren't you glad you listened to us now :devil:


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