# BFD Versions: FBQ1000 vs FBQ2496



## loc4me

I have a MFW-15 in my small media room that I am finally getting around to EQ'ing as my Turbo Kit is on its way. I have been using Audyssey exclusively to tame the resonances up to this point.
My buddy has a SMS-1 that he is going to let me borrow and I’m going to purchase a Feedback Destroyer to compare it to. I’m familiar with REW and plan to use that (and my ears) to compare the end results of the two products.

I’m a still a bit confused to which FBQ I should purchase even after reading the many threads on this topic. However most of them were tailored to the DSP1124p vs the FBQ2496. I definitely want to be able to use the MIDI interface to load filters. The DSP1124p appears to be discontinued so that is out of the mix. The FBQ1000 seems to be nearly identical except I have not seen a confirmation that REW can communicate with it over the MIDI interface. The FBQ2469 is known to work well with the MIDI interface.

I did like the fact the DSP1124p could have multiple presets that I could use for “Movie” and “Music” curves. I don’t think the FBQ2496 has this feature and I’m not sure about the FBQ1000.

It has been covered many times that the FBQ2496’s electronics are of better quality (and produce less distortion) than the DSP1124p. Is this still the case for the FBQ1000?

Anybody have any real world experience with the FBQ1000?

John, can you confirm a working MIDI communication between the FBQ1000 and REW?

Thank in advance as I know there are quite a few questions here.

-Mark


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

We haven’t had anyone weigh in yet that owns the FBQ1000, but it appears to be identical to the DSP1124. We don’t know if it has any upgrades, or if Behringer simply made the model number change to be like that of their other feedback destroyer devices.




loc4me said:


> I did like the fact the DSP1124p could have multiple presets that I could use for “Movie” and “Music” curves. I don’t think the FBQ2496 has this feature and I’m not sure about the FBQ1000.


Correct, the 2496 does not have any memories. I’m sure Behringer has the FBQ1000’s manual on line so you can easily find out about its memory capabilities.




> It has been covered many times that the FBQ2496’s electronics are of better quality (and produce less distortion) than the DSP1124p. Is this still the case for the FBQ1000?


”Quality electronics” are not an issue if you’re using the equalizer for subwoofer duties. While the BFD’s merits for full-range use is questionable, primarily due to noise issues, none of this is a concern with subwoofers because less-than-pristine electronics or noise will be audible with a sub.

Personally, I’m not fond of the 2496 because it has extremely limited bandwidth settings available. For instance, between 1/6-octave and 1/2-octave bandwidths – virtually all filters will be set in this bandwidth range – the 2496 only has five settings available. The BFD, and presumably the FBQ1000, has at least 10 bandwidth settings in this range - twice as many. Being able to set a filter to precise bandwidths needed to combat a trough or peak is one of the major things that makes a parametric EQ such an awesome device. Obviously, if the equalizer forces you to comprise with a filter that’s too wide or too narrow for what’s really needed, its usefulness is diminished.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## THX-UltraII

The FBQ1000 seems very cheap (88 euro in the Netherlands) and a good option for my subwoofer eq. But here s a stupid newbie question. How does a Behringer FBQ1000 connect between my AVR and subwoofer?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Cables.  Seriously, all you need is a couple of cables that have RCA plugs on one end, and 1/4" phone plugs on the other.

http://www.audio-discounters.com/pprc-j05.html

Regards, 
Wayne


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## THX-UltraII

But which cable goes where? :dunno:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

When you get your BFD and the cables, it will all make sense. :T

Regards, 
Wayne


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## planetc

THX-UltraII said:


> But which cable goes where? :dunno:


It is added in line between the sub out of the avr and the input on the sub itself. It takes the signal from the avr that would normally be sent direct to the sub, it processes it, and feeds the processed signal on to the sub.


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## loc4me

Wayne,
Thanks for the helpful reply. I did not realize the FBQ2496 had a limited filter bandwidth compared to the DSP1124 and the FBQ1000. I will definitely factor that into my decision.

I'm disappointed that no one has any information on using the FBQ1000 around here. I guess I could be the guinea pig and give it a try. I'm sure John can get the MIDI interface working if there is something different with it. I’ll just send it to him if he needs it.


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## THX-UltraII

planetc said:


> It is added in line between the sub out of the avr and the input on the sub itself. It takes the signal from the avr that would normally be sent direct to the sub, it processes it, and feeds the processed signal on to the sub.


Ok, that makes sense. So I can but this one? http://www.bax-shop.nl/jack-rca/pro...-3.00-meter/product-details.html#!prettyPhoto 
And I just tear the cable in two and only use one of the two (white or red) cables right?

@loc4me: check out this thread about the FBQ1000 http://www.avforums.com/forums/subwoofers-tactile-transducers/1621519-behringer-fbq1000.html


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## planetc

Looks good, you will need to use both halves, one on the input and one on the output.


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## THX-UltraII

planetc said:


> Looks good, you will need to use both halves, one on the input and one on the output.


What do you mean with 'use both halves, one on the input and one on the output'?

Am I correct that the chain is:

pre-sub out on receiver (1x RCA) => 1/4" phone INPUT of Behringer (R or L, does not matter) => 1/4" phone OUTPUT of Behringer => RCA INPUT of subwoofer (R or L, does not matter).


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## planetc

Output on the bfd is also a 1/4 plug, hence if you split the pair, then you can use one in and one out, otherwise you understand correctly.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

What planetc said: the 1/4" ends go to the BFD, the RCA ends go to the receiver and subwoofer. :T

Regards,
Wayne


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## THX-UltraII

I just recieved the FBQ1000. I ll have to wait for my (calibrated) ECM8000 to arrive and after this I will begin with REW+TASCAM 122 MKII+ECM8000+FBQ1000 subwoofer calibration.


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## THX-UltraII

I received my FBQ1000 and connected it between my pre-subwoofer out of my receiver and my subwoofer itself. Before I will start making measurements I have to 'learn' the FBQ1000 a little bit of course. The first thing I would like to know is how to config the FBQ1000 in order to 'by-pass' all (as if he isn t there). Thanks.


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## planetc

THX-UltraII said:


> I received my FBQ1000 and connected it between my pre-subwoofer out of my receiver and my subwoofer itself. Before I will start making measurements I have to 'learn' the FBQ1000 a little bit of course. The first thing I would like to know is how to config the FBQ1000 in order to 'by-pass' all (as if he isn t there). Thanks.


The 1124 you push and hold the in/out button until it flashes.... the 1000 may be different though so I would look at the handbook if I were you. I have used the midi interface and it means that the learning curve is restricted to REW, no need to touch the unit at all, not sure if you can do this with the 1000?


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## THX-UltraII

> The 1124 you push and hold the in/out button until it flashes.... the 1000 may be different though so I would look at the handbook if I were you.


The handbooks information is very brief and does not contain much information at all. I just checked and the in/out button has a light on, off and flash option (flash is longpress just like you said). Does this means that flasing means 'there is no FBQ1000'?



> I have used the midi interface and it means that the learning curve is restricted to REW, no need to touch the unit at all, not sure if you can do this with the 1000?


The 1000 seems the same as the 1124. What is 'the midi interface'? (sorry but I m a noob)


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

With a brief push of the bypass button, the LED meters show output signal level, which includes gain changes brought by any filters employed. Push and hold the button and the meters show the input level. Either way, all filters are bypassed with the button is pushed.

With a MIDI interface device, REW can program the equalizer's filters automatically.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## loc4me

Great to see another user with the FBQ1000 but I was hoping you would be using the MIDI interface to program the filters. This is one of my concerns. Hopefully it works just like the DSP1124.

There are USB to MIDI cables out there that let your computer communicate with the FBQ1000. John has added the ability for REW to set certain settings in external EQs through the MIDI interface. Pretty slick.


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## THX-UltraII

> With a brief push of the bypass button, the LED meters show output signal level, which includes gain changes brought by any filters employed. Push and hold the button and the meters show the input level. Either way, all filters are bypassed with the button is pushed.


I don t have a button on the FBQ1000 that says 'bypass'.



> With a MIDI interface device, REW can program the equalizer's filters automatically.


But is it the same as config the FBQ1000 directly with the FBQ1000 itself?


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## morca

Sander you are looking also :T
I will see if i have the time to white a stap by stap plan how to configure your dsp by hand.
I wont promise,but i wil try to make the time


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## THX-UltraII

Good to see you here too 
Looking forward to it.


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## Twanvlem

Hello,

I am new on this forum.
I would like to know if there is some more experience with the FBQ 1000.
Is it possible to use signal pass-through,
And is it possible to have communication with the REW software.

In other words is the FBQ1000 the same as the DSP1134P.

I hope someone can help me with this.

Thanking you in advance

Twan


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## lbrown105

Does the 1124P have delay controls for each channel? If it does I can't find them.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Hi Twan,

We haven't had much activity on the FBQ1000; everything we know about it is on this thread. 




Twanvlem said:


> And is it possible to have communication with the REW software.


The communication aspect (MIDI) was discussed by THX, but he never confirmed one way or the other.




Twanvlem said:


> Is it possible to use signal pass-through


Sorry, I do not know what you mean by that.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

lbrown105 said:


> Does the 1124P have delay controls for each channel? If it does I can't find them.


The BFD is just a basic equalizer and had no delay controls. For that feature, you'll need a different unit (that will undoubtedly be more expensive).

Regards,
Wayne


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## Twanvlem

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Hi Twan,
> 
> We haven't had much activity on the FBQ1000; everything we know about it is on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> The communication aspect (MIDI) was discussed by THX, but he never confirmed one way or the other.
> 
> 
> Sorry, I do not know what you mean by that.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thank you for your answer.
I have purchased the FBQ1000 and I can confirm that the MIDI is working with the REW software.

What I meant with pass through: If it is possible to let the sub signal pass through the FBQ1000 without activating any filters. I can confirm that this is possible to. Just push the IN/OUT button for a few seconds till it starts to blink.

Regards
Twan


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## charlesj

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The BFD is just a basic equalizer and had no delay controls. For that feature, you'll need a different unit (that will undoubtedly be more expensive).
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Since this unit is still discussed, I have a question.
On the 1124P, can the two channels be daisy chained into one so there are 24 filters to one mono channel? The output of ch 1 into ch 2 input and so forth?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Sure, you can loop the output of one channel into the input of the other. But if you believe you actually need that much filtering, I’d suggest some research on equalization. My “Minimal EQ” article would be a good start; you can find it linked in my signature. :T

Regards, 
Wayne


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## charlesj

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Sure, you can loop the output of one channel into the input of the other. But if you believe you actually need that much filtering, I’d suggest some research on equalization. My “Minimal EQ” article would be a good start; you can find it linked in my signature. :T
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thanks. I was planning on using one for my center channel full range, more or less, as these are less expensive than the other digital from Behringer but didn't want5 to be limited to only 12 filters, just in case. I am already using one for my two subs in single channel mode and the current analog for the center is just too noisy for some reason compared to the L/R ones.


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## charlesj

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Sure, you can loop the output of one channel into the input of the other. But if you believe you actually need that much filtering, I’d suggest some research on equalization. My “Minimal EQ” article would be a good start; you can find it linked in my signature. :T
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thanks and am reading all your articles. 
I was planning on using one for my center channel full range, more or less, as these are less expensive than the other digital from Behringer but didn't want to be limited to only 12 filters, just in case. I am already using one for my two subs in single channel mode and the current analog for the center is just too noisy for some reason compared to the L/R ones.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

charlesj said:


> and the current analog for the center is just too noisy for some reason compared to the L/R ones.


Not sure I follow; are you saying you have an analog equalizer for your left, right and center channels, and it's noisy?

Regards,
Wayne


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## charlesj

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Not sure I follow; are you saying you have an analog equalizer for your left, right and center channels, and it's noisy?
> Charles
> Regards,
> Wayne


Yes and no. Yes, I have 3 analog EQ for them but only the center one is the noisy one even with a new replacement EQ. A new center speaker is dead quiet in the L/R speaker outlets and almost quiet enough in the
center location when the EQ is in the bypass mode. Tried the 1124P from my subs in there and was equally quiet in the EQ mode with a couple of filters set just to see what would happen and knowing if I can daisy chain 2 channels before purchasing another to replace the analog. Now I know I can and it will allow me to use more than 12 filters if needed. Used ones are reasonably priced for me to experiment further.

Thanks. Charles


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

The noisy center-channel equalizer, what is it (make and model).

Regards,
Wayne


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## charlesj

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The noisy center-channel equalizer, what is it (make and model).
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


The old one was Audio Control C131, the new one is DBX 131S. I ran ground wire to the amps, and APC G5 power center, no help. No ground lug on Onkyo 705 that serves as a pre. Lifted the ground on the 3 EQs plugged in the APC, didn't help so now it is plugged in with the three prong cord that is on them. The other 2 Audio controls for L/R are 2 pronged yet are very quiet. The center EQ, old and new are quiet when in bypass mode.

Thanks. Charles


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I used the C-131s for many years, so I know for a fact that they are virtually dead silent. Quiet in bypass mode – that tells me that you have a whole slew of filters set for significant boost. Am I right?

If not, then I’d suggest that you have some other problem that you need to chase down. It would be highly unlikely for both of those equalizers to be noisy (even though the dbx is probably no match in the “quiet” department for the AudioControl). You can confirm this by moving one of your quiet left or right equalizers to the center channel. If it’s suddenly noisy, then you have some other problem.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## charlesj

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I used the C-131s for many years, so I know for a fact that they are virtually dead silent. Quiet in bypass mode – that tells me that you have a whole slew of filters set for significant boost. Am I right?
> 
> If not, then I’d suggest that you have some other problem that you need to chase down. It would be highly unlikely for both of those equalizers to be noisy (even though the dbx is probably no match in the “quiet” department for the AudioControl). You can confirm this by moving one of your quiet left or right equalizers to the center channel. If it’s suddenly noisy, then you have some other problem.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


I have a 6 dB boost at 1.6k and 3 filter below 100 Hz at 3 dB. Yes, when I reduced the 1.6k if was noticeable but still there. I will need to do some more experimenting. Not easy to swap them around and re-eq. Will be out of town for a while so this will be a while.
Thanks for all your help.
Charles

UPDATE: did a number of testing including totally removing EQ and still had the hum; then I really looked at the receiver that acts as a pre/pro to see if it really didn't have a grounding lug. Found it hiding, grounded and wow, so much better, barely hear anything right next to the cone. Thanks. Charles


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