# Sunfire dying (MK1) Need direction on new sub



## fritznewt (Nov 13, 2008)

Newbie to the Shack (excellent board and really like the tone of the posts) and catching up on the volume of new information as my system had remained happily stagnant since 1997 (Denon 5600, Phase Technology PC3's up front, PC2's rear, Sunfire True Sub MK1). However, my Sunfire True Sub MK1 is dying its second death. First death was in 2004 and cost 350 to fix/upgrade current quote is 450... so decision time. Could use some suggestions and I ported my posting over from AVS using their numbered guide. I thought the Shack might be a good spot to get other suggestions. 

*1. My budget.* Looking at 1K without shipping or taxes included.

*2. Size requirements/limits.* Size is not a consideration. Room is dedicated to media.

*3. Room dimensions.* The room is 2363 cubic. ft. (essentially 16x17X8.5 or close to it but cubic measurement is very close) with a open door way that is 6'W x 7'H. TV and sub currently on the short wall.

*4. Primary uses.* 40% HT/TV viewing, 40% music, 20% gaming

*5. Listening habits.* Tend to like to hear/feel the bass when appropriate and tend to listen at moderate to high levels (higher for concert DVD's). The house is open so kicking it at a moderate to high volume hits the whole house.

*6. Appearance requirements.* Don't really care unless it is pink. WAF (wife acceptance factor) is high as she is wanting a replacement sub ASAP but willing to wait for the right fit.

*7. Timeframe. *Willing to suffer for the right setup. ID (internet direct) is fine but have never tried that for AV equipment before.

*8. Search the forum.* Searched and have a core list built off of Craigsub list with consideration being given to MFW-15 (two maybe? would need to stretch my budget), Hsu VTF-3 Mark III w/o Turbo, SVS PB-12 Plus. I am still needing to wade through and understand the excellent tests at the shack. Glad I haven't bought yet!

Local audio retailer is suggesting Phase Tech FL-12, or PC-SUB but I have yet to hear them and I have really had trouble finding much about them outside of the Phase site at all. I really like my Phase Tech PC3's (fronts) and PC2's (rear) but that would not be a deciding factor to keep it in the family.

Appreciate any suggestions.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hello Fritz, Welcome to the Shack!

If your going to buy a bre built sub in your list you mention SVS PB-12 Plus, That is one of the best choices available for under $1000. However if you can I would stretch you budget and get yourself a PB13 Ultra you would not be disapointed.


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## fritznewt (Nov 13, 2008)

I don't feel confident enough to go the DIY route or have the time to pick it up. Nice to see such activity in that area at the Shack, however. Seriously had my head in the sand... or sound :bigsmile:

I will look into your suggestion and thanks!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The PB13 Ultra is superb at music as well as Movies, music really comes alive with that sub and doesn't sound at all over powering considering the size.


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## fritznewt (Nov 13, 2008)

any thought on what the PB-12 Plus will be like?... looks like I can still get it pre-ordered before the weekend at 999.00 with 99.00 shipping. Looked at B-Stock PB13-Ultra but price is just out of range... but close with shipping included.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

the PB-12 Plus is a great sub as well but the output is less than the PB13 ultra and with your room being 2363 cubic. ft. you will be pushing it to achieve the reference levels you probably want.
My room is roughly double the size of yours and the PB13 Ultra is working hard as well.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

I would add another recommendation for SVS based on their high customer satisfaction and proven performance. 



> Size is not a consideration. Room is dedicated to media.
> 
> Tend to like to hear/feel the bass
> 
> ...


You sound like a prime candidate for DIY. For $1000 you can blow pretty much any commercial sub out of the water, especially with your easy design constraints. I am not a handy person but I managed to put something together pretty easily. Why don't you feel comfortable with the idea?


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## fritznewt (Nov 13, 2008)

Time and knowledge of what I would be doing if I attempted DIY. I would not even be sure where to start. Any suggestions on kits. etc? Willing to read!


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

We are here to help you with your build. Lots of us have built our own and can provide some good advice depending what you are looking for.

You can take a look here and read through a couple of builds to get an idea for the process.

The first thing you would want to do is take a look at some drivers. There are lots of them out there and we can help recommend a few to you based on your budget and performance criteria. Then you would need an amplifier to power them. The Behringer EP2500 is the most popular and for around $300 for 1500 watts it's tough to get better power than that. Then you would need to pick a type of enclosure and do some modeling to find the best size and tune for the driver you choose. 

DIY subs basically boil down to three types IMO. 
1. Sealed Box - Simple box with a driver mounted in it.
2. Ported Box - Same as above but with the addition of a port. Allows significantly more output and low end than a sealed box with the same driver and amp.
3. LLT - Large and Low Tuned. This is a ported design but is very big and tuned to a very low frequency. This would be ideal for your application as you are looking for performance but not concerned with size or appearance. 

It may seem like a lot but the rewards are definitely worth the time involved in learning and building. We are here to help and answer any questions you have :R


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## fritznewt (Nov 13, 2008)

thanks for the food for thought. I plan to do some more reading while I make my decision and curious to see how the market looks as we move to the holiday season and if pricing slips down any. HDTV LCD's are coming down from manufacturers MSRP so maybe some give could be coming on speakers, etc.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

Fritz,

Welcome to the Shack!

When I was building my dedicated HT, I thought long and hard about doing a DIY sub. The problem was I was a one man band finishing out the unfinished part of our basement, doing everything from wiring to plumbing to hanging sheetrock to finish carpentry to painting. I just didn't have any spare time to also build a sub.

For about the same price it would have cost me to build a sub, I bought an SVS PB-12 NSD, which I love. I'm using it with Ascend Acoustic speakers.

When I was toying with DIY, I planned to use a Rhythmik Servo driver and amp. Now Ascend has teamed up with Rhthmik and is offering finished subs (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/subs/subintro.html). You might want to take a hard look at these. You can also email Dave, the owner of Ascend and he will personally recommend a sub to meet your needs. I've had excellent dealings with both Ascend and SVS. You can't go wrong with either.

Doug


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## fritznewt (Nov 13, 2008)

Thanks for all the help and suggestions. I may go DIY at some point but don't have the time and necessary knowledge to make that work. I went ahead and ordered a PB13-Ultra so we shall see if all of the good reports are true... but I expect they will be. I will likely be back for setup help :bigsmile:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You wont be disappointed at all. Its an amazing sub for the money.:hsd:


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