# Parasound vs. Emotiva



## ndurantz

Hi all. I finally got myself a pair of large bookshelf speakers for a dedicated 2-channel listening area. Rather than buying a new amp & pre amp, I chose to move my Parasound Z pre & Z amp into that room to drive the speakers. I had purchased an Emotiva Mini X A-100 awhile ago and thought it would be an excellent replacement for my computer listening zone (Audioengine P4 speakers, FiiO D3 DAC, via optical out from my Mac Mini). Upon playing The Shins - Port of Morrow Apple lossless rip through the Vox app on the Mac Mini, I found the Emotiva was very quick/responsive w/ plenty of power. On the downside, the sound was very aggressive, almost harsh to my ears.

Could it just the new sound signature throwing me off or is the Emotiva a colder sounding amp vs. the Parasound? Or Is there maybe something else I am not considering?

Thoughts and insights appreciated!

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## GusGus748s

ndurantz said:


> Hi all. I finally got myself a pair of large bookshelf speakers for a dedicated 2-channel listening area. Rather than buying a new amp & pre amp, I chose to move my Parasound Z pre & Z amp into that room to drive the speakers. I had purchased an Emotiva Mini X A-100 awhile ago and thought it would be an excellent replacement for my computer listening zone (Audioengine P4 speakers, FiiO D3 DAC, via optical out from my Mac Mini). Upon playing The Shins - Port of Morrow Apple lossless rip through the Vox app on the Mac Mini, I found the Emotiva was very quick/responsive w/ plenty of power. On the downside, the sound was very aggressive, almost harsh to my ears.
> 
> Could it just the new sound signature throwing me off or is the Emotiva a colder sounding amp vs. the Parasound? Or Is there maybe something else I am not considering?
> 
> Thoughts and insights appreciated!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


In all honesty and experience with a few different amps suchs as Carver, QSC, and Outlaw I never noticed any difference in sound between the amps. The amps only drive the speakers, and the speakers provide the sound. So, if the sound seems harsh to your, then it is an issue with the speakers an not the amp.

However, I did notice a night and day sound difference from Polk Audio to my Arx speakers. Now, if the amplifier is defective or needs repair then I will agree that the amp will affect the sound.


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## Tonto

Are you saying that you tried both amps & found the Emo to sound different than the Parasound? I would not expect that. I would expect postioning to be a much larger factor. How are the speakers placed in the room?


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## ndurantz

Thanks for the replies. To answer the second poster's questions, yes, I have tried both and it is a near field set-up. The speakers are about 3 ft. from my listening position, toed in a bit less than 45 degrees and angled slightly upward toward ear level.

Now when I say tried both, I am not talking A/B or blind testing - too little time for that as neither sound bad by any means.

I have been tempted to upgrade my DAC to an Audioengine D1 (need the optical out) and it is rumored to have warmer, more analog sound, so maybe that would help a bit. Plus, by going with the Emotiva amp, I lost my option to listen to headphones, which I would like back.


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## JoeESP9

The OP's impression of the Emotiva amplifier is exactly what I've heard from other owners. So, he's not alone in saying that the Emotiva amp sounds cold and serile.

It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference whether or not there is any measurable difference, or if strict A B testing doesn't uphold the OP's impression. It's what he hears and/or doesn't hear. So what if it's subjective. Only his ears with his gear in his room with his music can make the determination. Anyone is free to try the same test in their own room. If you want to use a DBX box for DBT that's your business. If you hear no difference that too is your business. I for one will never tell anyone their perception of anything is wrong or in correct in any way.

To wit: The OP says he hears a difference. That means he hears a difference. That what he hears or doesn't hear may not be supported by DBT means nothing. Perception is the deciding factor.


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## Tonto

JoeESP9 wrots:



> Perception is the deciding factor.


I think this pretty much sums up the majority of our opinions. While we may not be able to prove it, we like what we have & that is enough. It is still nice to have conversations about it because it is what we enjoy talking about. I would never tell someone they did/didn't hear something, but I would like to hear more about their situation. We all have our own gear & reasons for getting it. 

That being said, there are some legitimate ground rules in audio. Speaker positioning being one of them. That was the point of my bringing that up. I haven't tested it, but I suspect that optimum speaker position may even vary with different amps. May be a good test when HTS has time to test some amps.

Hope I didn't offent the OP with my post! I assure you that was not my intent.


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## chashint

Meh...perception is just that, perception.
Influenced by any number of factors.
If one amp sounds warm and another sounds cold that should not change by level matching the amps, blackening the room and randomly switching between the two.
Warm should still sound warm and cold should still sound cold.

If the influences other than the actual sound is taken away (ie DBT) and no difference can be heard then the amps sound the same.

You play a Parasound and and Emotiva for me and I will like the Parasound better. 
Then play a McIntosh for me and I will like it the best above all others. 
Play all three without me knowing which is which and they will all be indistinguishable from each other.

This has been proven over and over again.
All this proves is amps sound so similar they are indistinguishable from each other.

My perception does not change because of this.
I will still want the McIntosh and (perhaps due to vanity) I would get more enjoyment from owning it.


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## Tonto

So we agree. I suppose that's why they allocate money to their physical "look." Macintosh does that very nice.


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## hjones4841

Throw in the price factor and the Emotiva's win big time.


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## chashint

Throwing in the price factor AVR's win big time.


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## ndurantz

I don't get out here on the boards as much as I would like, but when I do, I am reminded why I like HTS so much. Great discussion, enthusiasm and respect all the way around!

In response to what some of has been posted:

I certainly didn't take offense to anything said, so no apologies necessary.

I am not so wound up about sound differences that I go to the lengths of a/b switching or blind testing to rule out perception. So when I mentioned that, I was just saving someone posting about "how can you really be sure unless you do...." because I wouldn't do that anyway. I just notice things with a bit more of a critical ear and leave it at that.

I may be alone, but sometimes doubt my own ears as to what I hear, wanting to be sure it just isn't my imagination, so the post from JoeESP9 is somewhat reassuring.

All said and done, I really appreciate the replies and discussion. :T Will update later as to what steps I take to address this.


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## JoeESP9

FWIW: I've heard from several "enthusiasts" who have tried Emotiva amplifiers and have categorized the ones they auditioned (in their homes) as being slightly hard and sterile sounding. They subsequently returned the amplifiers in question. Will these findings stand up under a DBT? I don't know and don't really care. 

Just as many others loved the Emotiva amplifiers and kept them. 

The perception of the listener in their room with their gear and choice of music is the only thing that matters.


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## hjones4841

chashint said:


> Throwing in the price factor AVR's win big time.


Very true, but some of us just have to try external amps. With my speakers (Klipschorns) did I need external amps. Absolutely not, but I wanted to try Emotivas and they are still in my system.


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## Viggen

chashint said:


> Meh...perception is just that, perception.
> 
> You play a Parasound and and Emotiva for me and I will like the Parasound better.
> Then play a McIntosh for me and I will like it the best above all others.
> Play all three without me knowing which is which and they will all be indistinguishable from each other.
> 
> This has been proven over and over again.
> All this proves is amps sound so similar they are indistinguishable from each other.


disagree.... kinda 

Yes I agree that perception has a lot to do with ones opinion however a blind test with the above mentioned amps and quality speakers/cables I would be highly surprised if people didn't hear a difference.

My wife had a stack of parasound amps which powered her boston acoustic speakers. When we got married we had to merge our stuff together and of coarse we both wanted to use our own stereo equiptment. I said we just need to listen to everything and choose what we preferred. We both thought my old infinity kappa speakers were superior to her bostons and that her parasoud amps sounded much better vs the adcom I had. On her bostons the amps sounded very very similar. On my power hungry kappa 8.1's it was night/day mostly in the low end with a much better controlled and dynamic sound. The old kappas have a 12in driver vs 5.25's or 6.5's on her bostons. Thus.... the Adocom was thrown in our bedroom with her bostons and her parasound amps are in the HT room with all my old infinity stuff...... I really wanted to believe the Adcom was superior due to being a huge fan of their car audio stuff from the early/mid 90's

Someone on one of the car audio forums did a test of a handful of car amplifiers setup in a home. They were all tested blind as well as being able to see which amp was being played and was a nice variety of a dozen or so amps from low/mid to mid/high end. The same amp had the best sound/opinions from both forms of rating and fortunately the amplifiers I use in my car won that little comparison..... 

I think there is a difference and correct not everyone can hear it. If they can't hear the difference then don't spend the money unless you just want the WOW factor when showing friends


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## ndurantz

Viggen said:


> My wife had a stack of parasound amps


Sounds like you chose your spouse wisely! :T

As an update, I moved my little FiiO Tashan DAC to another system and replaced it with an Audioengine D1. No deiscernable difference to me once I hooked it up, so I listened to over the next few weeks and still wasn't thrilled with the sound.

Then I remembered I had picked up an old Rotel 2 channel stereo amp off Ebay awhile back and gave it a shot. I am still in the early testing/listening phases, but I like what I am hearing!


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## talmadge

I would agree that most speakers will sound the same with different amps especially at low to moderate levels. However I have a pair of Infinity Kappa 9's and Carver Amazing's that will reveal differences in the way different amps sound. Of course both of these are difficult loads for amplifiers.


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## ndurantz

Well, after a few weeks with the Rotel system in the chain, I am happier with the sound. Still not sure where I fall regarding the "amps change the sound," but the vintage Rotel w/ the Audioengine D1 DAC and the Audioengine D4 speakers sound nice.

But now I am testing out a pair of PSB Image B4 speakers I got on closeout from Crutchfield, so here we go again! But hey, who am I kidding, this is fun!


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## tesseract

Thanks for the update, Seth. :T


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## beyond 1000

chashint said:


> Throwing in the price factor AVR's win big time.



I have an Onkyo 906 and run it as a pre pro. I then got an Outlaw 7500 power amp and throw the price factor in I wouldn't dream of going back to an AVR for main power. Crank the AVRs (luxury sedans) hard and they heat up and lose composure. Crank up dedicated Power Amps (true sports cars) and you get performance and composure even under racing conditions.


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## fschris

Viggen said:


> disagree.... kinda
> 
> Yes I agree that perception has a lot to do with ones opinion however a blind test with the above mentioned amps and quality speakers/cables I would be highly surprised if people didn't hear a difference.
> 
> My wife had a stack of parasound amps which powered her boston acoustic speakers. When we got married we had to merge our stuff together and of coarse we both wanted to use our own stereo equiptment. I said we just need to listen to everything and choose what we preferred. We both thought my old infinity kappa speakers were superior to her bostons and that her parasoud amps sounded much better vs the adcom I had. On her bostons the amps sounded very very similar. On my power hungry kappa 8.1's it was night/day mostly in the low end with a much better controlled and dynamic sound. The old kappas have a 12in driver vs 5.25's or 6.5's on her bostons. Thus.... the Adocom was thrown in our bedroom with her bostons and her parasound amps are in the HT room with all my old infinity stuff...... I really wanted to believe the Adcom was superior due to being a huge fan of their car audio stuff from the early/mid 90's
> 
> Someone on one of the car audio forums did a test of a handful of car amplifiers setup in a home. They were all tested blind as well as being able to see which amp was being played and was a nice variety of a dozen or so amps from low/mid to mid/high end. The same amp had the best sound/opinions from both forms of rating and fortunately the amplifiers I use in my car won that little comparison.....
> 
> I think there is a difference and correct not everyone can hear it. If they can't hear the difference then don't spend the money unless you just want the WOW factor when showing friends


Your wife sounds awesome... You are very lucky. When I got married I had to make room for about 100 pairs of shoes.


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## ndurantz

Well, after about a month with the PSB's in the system, I pulled the trigger on a sub I have been eying (pinnacle subsonic) and the set up is moving. For the first time I can remember, I feels a smile creep across my face listening to hi-res music (vinyl or HD tracks). THIS is the experience I have been searching for. :bigsmile:The highs are a bit rolled off and the soundstage, separation isn't all I have dreamed of, but the combo does sound sweet for a near-field, desktop system. Now if I can only just enjoy it as opposed to thinking and scheming as to how and make it even better.:nerd:

Thinking back on this as an initial post, I now think I prefer a bit warmer sound. I don't know how I would feel about the emotiva in the current system as I haven't tried it, but it could well be that the combo of the Audioengine P4s and the Emotiva were just a bit too "clean" for my liking.

Thanks for all the input!


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## jaguar717

It's funny to hear Emotiva described as cold. Coming from years of listening to Class D amps and relatively low sensitivity speakers, when I got my Airmotivs I thought they sounded a bit warm by comparison. Then they became my everyday speakers so now they just sound neutral and my other system (ATC large bookshelves) seems cooler.


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