# Please Help Me With My Basement/ Theater Layout



## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

As a long time lurker, I've decided its time to begin my first thread here. 

It's now time for me to build an appropriate home for my system. It will be 50/50 2 channel (well 2.2 channel) music and home theater duty. I'd prefer to err on the side of acoustic benefit where I can. I also like an open layout where possible so the space doesn't feel to small and where we can host larger groups of people.

I have a few ideas for layouts, but I'd really value your feedback. 

I have a few limitations that I am stuck working with that aren't labeled on the layouts. My HVAC runs through the middle of the room in the ceiling parallel to the stairs (on the right side), and there is a large support beam to the right of this on the right edge of where the "utility room is labeled" which runs the same direction as the HVAC. These will require soffits and will likely prevent the home theater from being right of the stairs. Also, the hot water heater and furnace are now where the "utility room" is.

The actual layout of my basement as is can be seen here:



and in 3D here:




My initial concept takes advantage of the "open layout". I like the thought that you can see the screen from most angles in the room. I also like the bay shape in the walls on the bottom left which seems like it would be a cool bar/theater lobby. The downside is dealing with bass nodes with roughly 1,000 square feet. As you can see, my left speaker opens up to the future bar area, which certainly has some impact on sound and bass "impact". In this layout, I've toyed with the idea of having a curtain between the wall on the left and the stairs to bring a "wall" to my left speaker in times of critical listening. This curtain would be drawn back during a party and folks sitting at the bar next to the stairs could swivel their barstools and watch the movie. This layout accommodates the most seats, but has the drawback of opening up on the left side of the screen. Also, the back rows of the theater seating will have to deal with the 7' ceiling hight due to the soffit directly above the first row of chairs. (the rest of the basement will have 8' ceilings). See this layout below:

Plan A:



Plan A 3D Layout:



My second layout (Plan B) breaks up the space more and brings a wall to both right and left speaker sides. This particular plan contemplates framing a wall to the right of my right speaker about 5-6 feet or so to catch the first reflection point. In this space I'd build in shelves for the components. After the 5-6 feet of 8' wall, I'd have a 1/2 wall with a bar top to keep some separation, but not give up all the openness. Ideally, I'd still like to have a curtain or some temporary wall system for critical listening on the right side. 

See Plan B below:



Plan B 3D:



I had contemplated flipping the screen to the opposite side of Plan B, but the width would have to be 12' which would be tight, I'd lose access to the bathroom behind the stairs (cant access on other side due to furnace), and walking from the stairs to the seating isn't ideal).

Thanks for bearing with this long post.

I look forward to your feedback/ideas!
__________________
System: MacMini (Ripped CD Library to AIFF using XLD) > AudioQuest Carbon USB > W4S Dac2 > Kimber Hero Balanced > Mcintosh C2300 > Mcintosh MC402 > MIT Tmax One Wire Speaker Cables or Kimber 12TC > B&W Signature 800's/ B&W Signature HTM/ B&W N805/ Earthquake Supernova MKV 15" Subwoofer > JL Fathom F113 Subwoofer > Modified Oppo BDP85 > Onkyo TX-SR876


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I like plan b since you would be able to make the most out of a 7.1 setup with surround positioning. Try messing around with the room sim on REW to get an idea of where your subs will react best, probably around 3.5 feet off of each corner on the front wall. How about an AT screen to hide the subs and your LCR?


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

dougc said:


> I like plan b since you would be able to make the most out of a 7.1 setup with surround positioning. Try messing around with the room sim on REW to get an idea of where your subs will react best, probably around 3.5 feet off of each corner on the front wall. How about an AT screen to hide the subs and your LCR?


Great feedback. Thanks for taking the time to let me know your thoughts.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I would also opt for plan B. When setting up the room, I would wire for at least four locations for subs to give you flexibility for location as well as the possibility to add more subs later - this would even to your room response as well as fill the space better.

I also like Doug's suggestion about an AT front wall - if I had the space, would have definitely gone this route to create a clean front wall.


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## RossoDiamante (Aug 12, 2013)

While I love the open concept of "A", with your statement that the room will also be significantly 2.2 stereo use, I think that you are forced to go with "B" for acoustics. Many fewer variables to control with plan "B" and you can end up with a much higher performing space than you could with "A". But if it were just to mainly watch TV and football games, I'd go with plan "A"! But for stereo and movie surround, plan "B"! Good luck!


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I don't think "A" will work for the people at the bar either, that seating is so far off axis the picture would likely be washed out.

If you could do a spiral staircase, that might add some options for your layout & would look very nice in a social venue as well.

I would not place any seats against any wall in the acutal theater room, very poor acoutical area.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> I would also opt for plan B. When setting up the room, I would wire for at least four locations for subs to give you flexibility for location as well as the possibility to add more subs later - this would even to your room response as well as fill the space better.
> 
> I also like Doug's suggestion about an AT front wall - if I had the space, would have definitely gone this route to create a clean front wall.


Good thought on getting 4 subwoofer locations in the beginning. I also haven't thought too much about AT screens, so I will give this though.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

RossoDiamante said:


> While I love the open concept of "A", with your statement that the room will also be significantly 2.2 stereo use, I think that you are forced to go with "B" for acoustics. Many fewer variables to control with plan "B" and you can end up with a much higher performing space than you could with "A". But if it were just to mainly watch TV and football games, I'd go with plan "A"! But for stereo and movie surround, plan "B"! Good luck!


Thanks for your thoughts.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

Tonto said:


> I don't think "A" will work for the people at the bar either, that seating is so far off axis the picture would likely be washed out.
> 
> If you could do a spiral staircase, that might add some options for your layout & would look very nice in a social venue as well.
> 
> I would not place any seats against any wall in the acutal theater room, very poor acoutical area.


You are right. I was thinking that the bar seating is more of an overflow for children as the view isn't ideal. In this situation, I'd have a flat screen at the wet bar so overflow folks could see either the flat screen, or the projection (though not ideal), but it would certainly not be 100%


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Along the lines of the extra sub connection points, I would suggest putting in more connections than what you are planning for now.

For example, I wired my room for an 11.5 setup. Now, there is likely no way I will ever have that many speakers in there, but it gives me flexibility in the future to move speakers and try different configurations. I also put in more network connection points as well as HDMI points (and even a component cable connection) than I will ever need.

Basically, as long as the walls are open now, running everything is simple. After the walls are done, your flexibility is gone...


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> Along the lines of the extra sub connection points, I would suggest putting in more connections than what you are planning for now.
> 
> For example, I wired my room for an 11.5 setup. Now, there is likely no way I will ever have that many speakers in there, but it gives me flexibility in the future to move speakers and try different configurations. I also put in more network connection points as well as HDMI points (and even a component cable connection) than I will ever need.
> 
> Basically, as long as the walls are open now, running everything is simple. After the walls are done, your flexibility is gone...


Good point!


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks to all for your good feedback. 


Am I overlooking a potentially "Plan C" that would even be better?

I've been reading up on the "golden ratios" which prescribes the ideal theater. As I'm limited to an 8' ceiling, variations of this "golden ratio" as there are many identify how large the room should be ideally. As there are so many "rules of thumb" I assume there is a lot of flexibility here as long as I don't have a cube space, or multiples of any repeated dimension. 

Thoughts? Experiences?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

grasshopper1 said:


> Thanks to all for your good feedback.
> 
> 
> Am I overlooking a potentially "Plan C" that would even be better?
> ...


Spot-on. And, if you do go with an AT screen, make sure to include the area behind the screen as part of the overall room dimension.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> Spot-on. And, if you do go with an AT screen, make sure to include the area behind the screen as part of the overall room dimension.


Good tip on the area behind the screen!

Given the many different versions of the golden ratio, what would you suggest are the largest dimensions I could get away with for width and length in light of my existing 8' ceilings?


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

grasshopper1 said:


> I've been reading up on the "golden ratios" which prescribes the ideal theater.
> 
> Thoughts? Experiences?


Researchers such as Floyd Toole and Sigfreid Linkwitz find the concept of optimum room ratios questionable, so I wouldn't put much stock in "golden ratios". 

Read page 6 of the following paper: 

The Myth of Optimum Room Dimension Ratios 

Easier to smoothen the bass response if you don't have a square/cube shaped room or dimensions that are whole multiples of another, but even those aren't the nightmare people make them out to be.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

sdurani said:


> Researchers such as Floyd Toole and Sigfreid Linkwitz find the concept of optimum room ratios questionable, so I wouldn't put much stock in "golden ratios".
> 
> Read page 6 of the following paper:
> 
> ...


Personally, I would avoid a square shaped room, but beyond that, I agree. I would plan for as much space as you can, and then once the room is done, do the sub crawl to find the best location for good response. Or, multiple subs goes a long way to help deal with room modes.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks sdurani and ALMFamily!

I will definitely avoid a square room, and am encouraged at hearing that as long as the room is a rectangle, that issues can be dealt with by adding more subs. The "golden ratios" were worrying me as they prescribe a pretty small room with a maximum of two rows. I'd prefer a larger space if it's not an issue for my 50% music, 50% movie space.

Now if I can commit to a layout 

Any other tips there are more than welcome.

I was looking into acoustic walls that are similar to those in hotels or convention centers (panels from floor to ceiling on guided tracks). In theory, either plan A or B could be "walled off" sealing the space into a more perfect rectangle for critical listening, but the space could be opened up for parties. Anybody have thoughts or experience with that as as solution?



ALMFamily said:


> Personally, I would avoid a square shaped room, but beyond that, I agree. I would plan for as much space as you can, and then once the room is done, do the sub crawl to find the best location for good response. Or, multiple subs goes a long way to help deal with room modes.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Perhaps the next question to answer is how much sound isolation you want in play here. For example, my room has been built to isolate all but the heaviest LFE so that I can watch a movie after everyone else is in bed. 

Now, that added time and expense to the build, but in the end it was worth it for me personally as it opened up the amount of time I could use it.


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

grasshopper1 said:


> Now if I can commit to a layout
> 
> Any other tips there are more than welcome.


If it will help you commit, chock up another vote for layout B. When you wall off that area, you end up with better room width than layout A (unless you move the pole to the foot of the stairs to get a wider room with layout A). 

Speaking of moving poles, any chance you can figure out a way to move the other pole in the room? That area would make for an ideal theatre: 18'1" width and 22'6" length (back wall of theatre would butt up against the stairs). Doesn't get better than that!


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> Perhaps the next question to answer is how much sound isolation you want in play here. For example, my room has been built to isolate all but the heaviest LFE so that I can watch a movie after everyone else is in bed.
> 
> Now, that added time and expense to the build, but in the end it was worth it for me personally as it opened up the amount of time I could use it.


I plan to do thicker drywall and spray insulation. Beyond that, I don't need it to be too soundproof. 

What did you do to soundproof your space? I'm curious how to deal with the hvac vents as they carry a lot of sound.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

sdurani said:


> If it will help you commit, chock up another vote for layout B. When you wall off that area, you end up with better room width than layout A (unless you move the pole to the foot of the stairs to get a wider room with layout A).
> 
> Speaking of moving poles, any chance you can figure out a way to move the other pole in the room? That area would make for an ideal theatre: 18'1" width and 22'6" length (back wall of theatre would butt up against the stairs). Doesn't get better than that!


I should have an engineer give me an opinion on moving poles. In the 18x22 space, unfortunately there is also a support beam running parallel to the 18' wall where the pole is. This will still be a soffit regardless at 7' high which could visually impair the space from being the screen area. Also the utility room would also be touch to work around. Dimensionally it is a good space, just tough to work with.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

OK,

HT Shackers...you have all been so helpful offering feedback. I decided to tweak my prior designs (and accidentally deleted the links in the OP). 

I think I have settled on two options (and had WAY too much fun using the 3d design software combined with SketchUp).

I am still torn between having the very best home theater experience (now thinking closed dedicated theater), and having an open inviting room for entertaining. With only 1,000 sf, I am afraid it will feel small real quick if i add walls to separate the theater. I love the feel of wide open spaces where everybody can do different things, but still be together.

So here it is.

Version A Updated:


Version A Updated (3D View): 


In this update I am trying to place the front row in the sweet spot. I'm planning to use dipole speakers just behind the 1st row. I'll have a small platform for row 2 and place a bar behind row 2 with some barstools. The back space would be open. This layout allows for a gaming area, and a lounge area with a large booth by the wetbar and theater lobby to the left of the screen. I've spent some time dialing in my Earthquake Supernova 15" (currently in the front right corner next to the screen). Holy smokes, it is pretty awesome. Tons of slam! This layout contemplates up to 3 15" subs (one in the front right corner, to the left of the screen, and the back right corner). I'd also like to have another JL F113 to match my single up front next to the loudspeakers). I'm setup this way now in the unfinished basement, and it sounds pretty awesome. I cant imagine how much better it would sound if it were finished.

Now, onto option B "Revised":



Option B "Revised" 3D (looking back from the screen):


Option B "Revised" 3D (Looking towards the screen):


In this revision, I attempt to have a dedicated theater. I still have the wetbar and lobby in this portion, but have more of a parallel room (excepting the stairway that goes direct to the theater). I'd suspect that acoustics here would be better (who knows how much better). I like this layout, but feel a little cramped as I think about it. To get 3 rows, I am closer to the screen than I'd like, and the other spaces are all tighter.


After dialing in my sub positioned currently as option A I have a lot of hope that with 1 or 2 more 15's, option A could sound amazing. My current setup is B&W 800's for the mains, HTM for the center, and i have some N805's that can be rears. (I found some B&W dipoles that I'd like to test fit, hoping that they will fit the bill). On one hand, i'd say it all sounds fantastic. On the other hand, I always wonder if it could be better 


So there it is. What are your thoughts?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Of the two, I prefer the open layout as I would think the stairs going into the rear of the dedicated HT might give you some acoustic issues to deal with...


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> Of the two, I prefer the open layout as I would think the stairs going into the rear of the dedicated HT might give you some acoustic issues to deal with...


Thanks for the feedback. I was curious what the stairs would do to the sound. 

I prefer the feel of the open area, I really appreciate the feedback.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

If I go with option A, I'd likely build a component shelf and place just below the screen. Any other ideas to make better use of the space?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

My only other suggestion would be to lose a bit of the desk where it wraps around the wall and use that corner to house the gear. Otherwise, I think this setup kind of locks you into a below the screen location.


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## MrAngles (May 1, 2012)

I kind of like under the stairs for A/V equipment.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

Thanks almfamily. I'm leaning to below screen since I do like to see the equipment. 

MrAngles, I have a sump pump under the stairs, so I'd be afraid of water, and long cable runs. Thanks for the thought.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

One tip I have heard - if the blinking lights bother you while watching a movie, just cover them with some black tape.


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

ALMFamily said:


> One tip I have heard - if the blinking lights bother you while watching a movie, just cover them with some black tape.


yup, I do that with my peavey amps.. otherwise they're like strobe lights.


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## grasshopper1 (Aug 15, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> One tip I have heard - if the blinking lights bother you while watching a movie, just cover them with some black tape.


I don't mind the lights as they are a soft green for the most part with glowing Mcintosh logos. I'd feel wrong taping over those


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