# ValueElectronics's Official CES Tour Information



## Robert Zohn

Stay tuned to this thread to learn what I see and hear at the press conferences and CES show floor from the top executives and engineers at the Consumer Electronics Show.

Have questions, but, can't make it to CES? Give me your suggestions and I'll ask for you. Give me your wish list and questions and I'll do my best to find out.

HTS membership has its benefits!

-Robert


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## mechman

*Re: ValueElectronics's official CES tour*

I'm going to make this a sticky until CES is over.


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## MikeBiker

*Re: ValueElectronics's official CES tour*

I want to know if any TV producers are actually going to have a OLED set (>32") in production in the next couple of years.


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## Robert Zohn

*Re: ValueElectronics's official CES tour*

Mike, I will report on the progress of OLED at CES 2012, but I think we'll learn more from the 4/16-19/12 NAB (National Association of Broadcasters) Las Vegas Conference, which I will also be reporting from.

-Robert


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## stillen

*Re: ValueElectronics's official CES tour*

will you ask Panasonic if they are coming out with a new 85VX200 in 2012 and any tech info would be appreciated.

thanx


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## tazz3

*Re: ValueElectronics's official CES tour*

this should be an awesome thread


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## Robert Zohn

*Re: ValueElectronics's official CES tour*



stillen said:


> will you ask Panasonic if they are coming out with a new 85VX200 in 2012 and any tech info would be appreciated.
> 
> thanx


Panasonic's Professional Group already has the 85" VX200 series 3D pdp display. The 2012 successor is expected to be announced at NAB on 4/12/12 at the International Las Vegas NV convention, which I will also be reporting on HTS from the show floor.



tazz3 said:


> this should be an awesome thread


Thanks tazz3, I plan on making this the go-to thread/site for the latest and greatest insider information from CES 2012.

Stay tuned......

-Robert


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## stillen

thank you Robert for the info.

have a good time at CES


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## Robert Zohn

Thank you stillen. I love CES and Las Vegas so a great time is highly anticipated and expected.

I'll be launching a new site the day before CES starts 1/9/11 just after I attend all of the press conferences. But don't expect to see the new site till in the late afternoon as it's a long day of press conferences. I'll be posting pictures and copies of the press releases and possibly some video of the press conferences. 

My new site will announce the new breaking technologies, and have behind the scenes interviews with the top technical insiders from most companies and extend first allocation buying opportunities.

Just nine days till we find out what's on tap for us in the 2012 CE model year.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

Arrived in Las Vegas late last night to get the best possible jump on what's happening and new for 2012 in CE. David Katzmaier, CNET's senior editor was on the flight with me and we had a nice discussion.

Tomorrow the press conferences start at 8 AM and go through the day and then a big CES party for HES-PRO dealers, which I'll be attending.

This is a very exciting few days with a full agenda of _"work hard, play hard"_ times.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

Here's two site to check out. 

First. is LG's link to their CES press conference; scheduled for 1/9/12 at 8 AM PST. 

Second, is Panasonic's link to their CES press conference scheduled for 1/9/12 at 3 PM PST.

Try not to miss these two very important announcements. You must log in at the exact times I listed above to see and hear these events live.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

Here's a link to Sharp's press releases so everyone can learn about all of the new stuff from Sharp Electronics for 2012 and beyond, like 8k technology. 

Nothing new on the Elite line, except for a new THX app called, THX Media Director that will be available on Elite TV via a firmware upgrade later this year. So the PRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD are the 2012 series. No 80" Elite or any other changes in the Elite line up.

No news on the color fix or waiving background, but I am scheduled for a meeting with the top engineers from Japan later this week. So stay tuned.


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## Robert Zohn

LG announced the 55" OLED. Super thin, 4mm thick and weighs only 16.5 lbs. Productions is scheduled for the end of Q3 '12. No price yet.

Voice and body control will be integrated into high-end 2012 Smart TVs. 

The appliances look great and have very advanced features.

-Robert


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## Weaselboy

Robert Zohn said:


> Nothing new on the Elite line, except for a new THX app called, THX Media Director that will be available on Elite TV via a firmware upgrade later this year. So the PRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD are the 2012 series. No 80" Elite or any other changes in the Elite line up.


Thanks for the update Robert. That looks like a nice free feature add. If I understand the THX site description correctly, one would need a new supported receiver and BR player for this all to work?

Hopefully, the fact the current model will stay in place as the 2012 bodes well for the cyan fix.

Enjoy Las Vegas!


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## Robert Zohn

Okay ladies and gents, here's the new site I promised. It's packed with everything you want to know about Panasonic's 2012 pdps.

More to come tomorrow so check back.

-Robert


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## DJ Mike Fury

Have a great trip Robert! Make sure you play some slots/cards while you're out there, but don't over do it!  The Sharp press conference was pretty good. What did you think of the new 80" 3D LED TV they displayed? They noted the quad pixel plus 2 improving the experience. Did you notice any major improvement in this area? Depending on what I hear about CES 2012, I may upgrade my bedroom TV with a 55". It's such a difference between my Elite to my bedroom TV that it's disturbing. lol 

BTW, make sure to take Sharp's Japanese engineers' airplane tickets away and not let them leave without fixing the cyan issue and the flash issue! haha


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks ^^ Mike, I'll follow your good advice! At the press conference you can't get close enough to the TVs to evaluate them and most are engineering samples, not final production. 

I'll report back here this evening after my long day on the show floor.

-Robert


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## DJG

OK, Robert, let's get some news here ... I'm bored, I only have a 32" Vizio to look at, and you're probably ogling and gambling out there :spend: ... :foottap:

And, the cyan issue has reached Category 5 status over at AVS ... :help: :boxer: addle: :gulp:  :yikes: :hsd:


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## Robert Zohn

Just got back to my hotel this moment. Lot's of news to share. Today I spent most of my time with the major TV manufacturers.

First, Sharp top execs told me Elite is here to stay and they are very happy with the sales that are outpacing the actual forecaster production. They have no plans on any price reductions and the model year will stay as is so we can expect the next generation to launch by September 2012 and will likely be 60", 70" and 80".

They also told me the 945, which is expected in late June or July, 2012 is not designed to compete with the flagship Elite series as it have far less local dimming zones, no IVS, and a lower grade video processor. Of course, no THX verification, no THX mode or ISF modes.

Here's my take on the two 55" OLED TVs. Samsung and LG showed 55" OLED TVs that look beautiful. Electrical efficiency is similar to LCD, but not as efficient as LCD/LED TVs. Samsung is using individual Red, Green and Blue pixels; LG utilizes white OLEDs and has filters to generate the colors. 

To my eyes Samsung's OLED produced a better pq, but I'm concerned about the reliability as Blue OLED is not as reliable as LG's White OLED scheme. So although performance looks like it goes to Samsung in this space, reliability may be in LG's court. Price and screen size will also limit the saleability of this new emerging technology. So my suggestion is don't be an early adapter, lets see how it goes and consider gen 2.

Of all of the plasma offerings, I strongly endorse Panasonic's plasma's. Panasonic's 2012 line looks stunning. 50% brighter and about 15% blacker with stunning color saturation and what looks like absolutely perfect motion resolution. 

Panasonic redesigned the entire 2012 line-up. New plasma glass panels, new drive scheme, new internal video processor and they upped the gradation 5 times yielding about 25,000 shades of grey. And the new design is simply beautiful. The VT50 has a very slim hidden bezel beneath the single sheet of glass. The depth is less than 1.5" and the new slim 8 speaker system with three built-in amplifiers deliver great TV audio and without the bottom bump-out that was in the 2011 model year.

Panasonic also introduced several new 47" and 55" LCD/LED TVs with their second generation IPS panels and these new entries deliver a great image quality in another beautiful overall design. Very slim and sleek with a ultra small bezel. These new LCD/LED TVs look appealing and I must say the only thing that looks better than the great new design is the very well respected pq.

Panasonic is no slough in the Interactive and Social Networking apps. All Viera Connect series have built-in web browsers and more Internet apps that you could imagine for every possible person's tastes and interests. Here's a list of the *new 2012* apps, this is in addition to the large suite of apps that launched in 2011.

Disney Books, Plaz Jam, Red Karaoke, iFit, Vimeo, MySpace TV, Snag TV, Miramax, Fixter, Cosmoh, Let's Golf 2, Uno, Play Jam, Black Jack Royal, Brain Trainer, Shoutcast Radio, Chess Challenge, Zap Trap, Mahjong Fruits, Rock Swap, Mongrels, Adventures, Solitaire, developer site, web browser and much more.

My prediction is Panasonic will take a commanding lead in pdp and LCD sales in their entry, mid and certainly the high-end displays for the 2012 model year. 

Toshiba, showed a few very nice high-end TVs. The L7200 Cinema Series looked nice and the 4K resolution glasses free 3D display looks great in 2D with 1080p content. My good friends at Toshiba took me past the barrier that keeps the CES attendees from a very close up look so I can see the 4k panel with 1920 x 1080 content and I could barely see the pixel structure even with a manufacturing glass. 

Although it's very cool to see 3D without glasses the limit of nine viewing positions and the greatly reduced resolution does not come close to what the top two (Elite and VT50) premium 3D TV makes are doing.

All in all a very nice product offering from Toshiba.

Tomorrow I'm back for another long day and I hope to get to some of the audio and accessory exhibits.

Any questions or comments?

-Robert

*PS, I'll be updating my Facebook page and new site regularly so for more CES new product information check out my three sites often.*


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## DJG

Thank you, Robert! Get some rest and do find time to enjoy yourself! We won't bug you anymore ...


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## Robert Zohn

DJG, thanks for the kind words. it's not possible for you or anyone on HTS to bug me. I love doing this and enjoy sharing my findings.

-Robert


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## Matt Marceau

Wow, great stuff, Robert. Sounds like Panasonic will have another great year. They seem to have some really quality plasmas for 2012 and for the price- should be great!

Did you get to see the comparison they have set up between the VT50 and the ST30? I was interested in how much blacker they really are. Here's hoping that the GT and VT can compete with the VX300.

This is interesting to hear that there was a noticeable difference with Samsung and LG's rbg v. white OLED. At the least, I hope they make the shootout this year. Is the picture quality that above and beyond what we've seen from Elite and Panasonic? If the blacks are perfect, I'm wondering why they aren't showing any dark room demos.


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks gmarceau. Yes I did see the VT30 vs.VT50 demo and it was impressive. 

It's impossible to give you a accurate comparison at CES between brands as we need to have the panels in a controlled environment with test and measurement signals, equipment and skilled personnel. Also these are engineering samples and production will likely be different. But it did seem that Samsung's OLED delivered a better picture than LG's OLED, but we must do a more controlled evaluation.

I'm working on updating my Facebook page with some cool photos and videos I took today.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## DJ Mike Fury

Thanks for the in-depth information Robert! As far as the Elites in late 2012, are those to be assumed as the 2013 models? Did you have any info as to what features they're looking to add to them? Also, on the Panasonic PDPs, when you describe them as 50% brighter, are you referring to how you personally seen them at the show bing in torch mode or is that what Panasonic is actually stating. I'm just trying to understand what you meant by it. Two more questions... Did you meet with the engineers from Elite? Any word on a fix? Also, what are the odds that Elite can add Airplay-like support for handheld devices using iOS or Android? Could this be done through a F/W update or is it hardware only?


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## Robert Zohn

Hi Mike, not sure, but I believe they will be called the 2013 series. Sharp will not officially say, but one exec nodded when I asked if we can expect the 4K or 8K resolution to trickle down to the next Elite model year. Regarding new features we can assume that we'll see the trend continue on the next gen Elite TVs, like tablet integration, Airplay, more Internet apps and built in web browsing.

Regarding Panasonic's 2012 advancements; I had a great interview with one of the most technical Panasonic trainer, Greg Lee. I'm working on getting it uploaded to my Facebook page, but it's big and somehow upside down so I'm fighting with it as we speak. If I get this up you will hear the best explanation on what Panasonic has done this year.

From what I'm told Airplay requires hardware and software so I do not expect it in the current series.

No official meeting with Sharp's Japanese engineers, but I am a very tenacious man and still hope to have my personal meeting before leaving Las Vegas. 

-Robert


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## HONOR

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




Thanks Robert, I’ll take a 80 elite lol!… one question thought, is the flagship offering from Toshiba an edge lit or full array?


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## Robert Zohn

It's edge-lit, but many of the 2012 edge lit LED panels can have up to 16 local dimming zones and Toshiba's new 4K LCD/LED panel is one of them. Does not compare to Elite's over 400 local dimming zones, but it a big improvement over the current crop of edge-lite panels that can just break the screen into 2 dimming zones.

-Robert


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## JimP

Robert,

How would you compare the upcoming VT50 to the Elite?


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## Robert Zohn

Jim, it's honestly not possible to give a qualified analysis as we need to have these beauties side-by-side in a controlled environment. I share your interest in comparing these great TV, which is what gave me the vision to create the shoot-out event more than 7 years ago. 

The shoot-out is scheduled to be immediately upon the release of every major manufacturers flagship model each year. This year I expect we'll host our 8th annual HDTV shoot-out event in early September or sooner.

However, here's my best guess after spending all day with both displays. Assuming Elite fixes the teal color decoding I still feel the Elite would win. I base my opinion on the superior contrast ratio that no plasma can match. The Elite TV is much brighter and blacker, but with all that said the difference is getting narrower and if the Elite price is maintained I would think the lions share of business would go to the 2012 VT50 series.

This will be a tough decision that each person must decide for themselves. And some of the decision should be based on the viewing environment. The Elite stands up best in high ambient light. But again compared to the 2011 VT30 the 2012 VT50's new louver filter will deliver better blacks in high ambient light.

Also keep in mind that we can keep chasing the next new technological breakthrough TV, the 65" VT50 will begin shipping around June and at that point you might want to wait for the 2013 Elite due around September 2012.

This is the fun industry and personally I love seeing us leap frog the technology. Some years I feel like we leap like a bull frog on steroids and some years we seem to be jumping backwards.

The best is yet to come and it looks very promising.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

I just uploaded the best CES video interview on Panasonic's 2012 TVs. This is a must see interview. 

Part 2 will be available shortly along with a few more videos everyone will love.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## obxdiver

Robert Zohn said:


> Just got back to my hotel this moment. Lot's of news to share. Today I spent most of my time with the major TV manufacturers.
> 
> First, Sharp top execs told me Elite is here to stay and they are very happy with the sales that are outpacing the actual forecaster production. They have no plans on any price reductions and the model year will stay as is so we can expect the next generation to launch by September 2012 and will likely be 60", 70" and 80".


Thanks so much Robert for the in-depth write up. I know you must have been very tired after a long day to write up that post. Thanks a million.
Regarding the sales figures from the Elite.
Please remind the Sharp exec's that those sales numbers are what is making the next years "2013" Elite models possible and that us 2012 (purchased in 2011) owners want the fixes for the reported cyan and pulsing issues. They need to remember who has made those sales numbers possible and should make us early adopters happy with the needed fixes.


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## PorTony

Robert Zohn said:


> Just got back to my hotel this moment. Lot's of news to share. Today I spent most of my time with the major TV manufacturers.
> 
> First, Sharp top execs told me Elite is here to stay and they are very happy with the sales that are outpacing the actual forecaster production. They have no plans on any price reductions and the model year will stay as is so we can expect the next generation to launch by September 2012 and will likely be 60", 70" and 80".
> 
> They also told me the 945, which is expected in late June or July, 2012 is not designed to compete with the flagship Elite series as it have far less local dimming zones, no IVS, and a lower grade video processor. Of course, no THX verification, no THX mode or ISF modes.
> 
> Here's my take on the two 55" OLED TVs. Samsung and LG showed 55" OLED TVs that look beautiful. Electrical efficiency is similar to LCD, but not as efficient as LCD/LED TVs. Samsung is using individual Red, Green and Blue pixels; LG utilizes white OLEDs and has filters to generate the colors.
> 
> To my eyes Samsung's OLED produced a better pq, but I'm concerned about the reliability as Blue OLED is not as reliable as LG's White OLED scheme. So although performance looks like it goes to Samsung in this space, reliability may be in LG's court. Price and screen size will also limit the saleability of this new emerging technology. So my suggestion is don't be an early adapter, lets see how it goes and consider gen 2.
> 
> Of all of the plasma offerings, I strongly endorse Panasonic's plasma's. Panasonic's 2012 line looks stunning. 50% brighter and about 15% blacker with stunning color saturation and what looks like absolutely perfect motion resolution.
> 
> Panasonic redesigned the entire 2012 line-up. New plasma glass panels, new drive scheme, new internal video processor and they upped the gradation 5 times yielding about 25,000 shades of grey. And the new design is simply beautiful. The VT50 has a very slim hidden bezel beneath the single sheet of glass. The depth is less than 1.5" and the new slim 8 speaker system with three built-in amplifiers deliver great TV audio and without the bottom bump-out that was in the 2011 model year.
> 
> Panasonic also introduced several new 47" and 55" LCD/LED TVs with their second generation IPS panels and these new entries deliver a great image quality in another beautiful overall design. Very slim and sleek with a ultra small bezel. These new LCD/LED TVs look appealing and I must say the only thing that looks better than the great new design is the very well respected pq.
> 
> Panasonic is no slough in the Interactive and Social Networking apps. All Viera Connect series have built-in web browsers and more Internet apps that you could imagine for every possible person's tastes and interests. Here's a list of the *new 2012* apps, this is in addition to the large suite of apps that launched in 2011.
> 
> Disney Books, Plaz Jam, Red Karaoke, iFit, Vimeo, MySpace TV, Snag TV, Miramax, Fixter, Cosmoh, Let's Golf 2, Uno, Play Jam, Black Jack Royal, Brain Trainer, Shoutcast Radio, Chess Challenge, Zap Trap, Mahjong Fruits, Rock Swap, Mongrels, Adventures, Solitaire, developer site, web browser and much more.
> 
> My prediction is Panasonic will take a commanding lead in pdp and LCD sales in their entry, mid and certainly the high-end displays for the 2012 model year.
> 
> Toshiba, showed a few very nice high-end TVs. The L7200 Cinema Series looked nice and the 4K resolution glasses free 3D display looks great in 2D with 1080p content. My good friends at Toshiba took me past the barrier that keeps the CES attendees from a very close up look so I can see the 4k panel with 1920 x 1080 content and I could barely see the pixel structure even with a manufacturing glass.
> 
> Although it's very cool to see 3D without glasses the limit of nine viewing positions and the greatly reduced resolution does not come close to what the top two (Elite and VT50) premium 3D TV makes are doing.
> 
> All in all a very nice product offering from Toshiba.
> 
> Tomorrow I'm back for another long day and I hope to get to some of the audio and accessory exhibits.
> 
> Any questions or comments?
> 
> -Robert
> 
> *PS, I'll be updating my Facebook page and new site regularly so for more CES new product information check out my three sites often.*


Hello Robert,
What video processor is in the 70" Elite?
Tony


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## DaveC56

Robert,

Thanks for the outstanding summary. Can you check to see if Denon has new flagship A/V Receivers for 2012 or what new products AVR & Blu-ray may be forthcoming in 2012? Since Jeff Talmadge has left Denon, the information flow has been slow.

Dave
Herndon, VA


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## alin2

I stumbled upon the VE shootout when doing research on the 70" Elite before purchasing. I found it an invaluable resource comparing all the models I was considering. And, now that I have purchased it, I still find myself in your debt for pushing Sharp for firmware fixes for the cyan color issue and the pulsing issue! 

I was hopeful that Sharp would come up with a fix based on their confident boasts at the VE Shootout that a fix would be easy and imminent. Now it seems that it might be vaporware. 

Thanks for providing such a great resource even for those not in your immediate location!


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks everyone for the kind words. I'm here to serve and protect.

I just posted another video on my Facebook page. Very informative product review.

-Robert


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## Radtech51

Hi Robert! Thanks so much for the info my friend, as always you make me feel like I was there with you viewing those displays.


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks Radtech51. I fell the same when I'm working at the shows and with vendors back home. I consider myself the a/v enthusiasts advocate.

-Robert


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## KalaniP

Robert Zohn said:


> From what I'm told Airplay requires hardware and software so I do not expect it in the current series.


Not to mention licensing from Apple. Apple has so far been willing to license AirPlay AUDIO to anyone who wants to pony up, but they have not licensed AirPlay VIDEO to anyone so far. Only the AppleTV2 can display an AirPlay video stream, thus far.

I suspect they're going to keep this one to themselves for at least a while longer, so don't expect anyone to add it it. If you need AirPlay Video, a mere $100 buys an ATV2 which does the trick.


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## tomboyter

I hope that you get a chance to compare the LG9600 to the Elite...I really love the almost non existent bezel and it apparently will come in a 60 inch version. Were you able to see the Sharp 945?


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## shimrod

Hello

Robert, can you ask to Sharp people at CES if they have plans of releasing the Elite models here in Europe, please? Maybe with another name?

Sorry for my english

Thank you very much in advance


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## cleveland plasma

It will be interesting to see the Elite VS 945. From what Sharp told us the 945 will have the same HDR chip. I am sure they will be very different, however to the human eye is what really counts.

Little disappointed to see that The Sony XBR series will continue as is in 2011. Yes the 2011 model will be the exact same unit for 2012. However the current XBR is a great set so I guess that is not a bad choice. I wish LG would have done this with the LH90 !

It seems like Panasonic, Samsung, Toshiba, and LG all had the same idea. Make it thinner, smaller bezel, weight less, and try to make the picture better. They look sweet ! All these changes can be confirmed except the overall picture quality without proper testing.

LG is due to have a 72" again and add a 84". Samsung promised a 75" again. We will have to wait and see if they will be released. 

Sharp confirmed in quarter 2 to quarter 3 they will have a 90" 3D unit out 

OLED look mighty nice  I hope they come out soon as promised !


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## Matt Marceau

Robert is there any sort of technical info on the 2012 Sammy plasmas? There's so much on Panny, but it would be nice to know what Samsung is doing to improve these sets. In some ways, the picture on larger Samsungs is more striking than the Panasonics especially with regards to color.


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## cleveland plasma

---This info below was told to us at CES. This was copied and pasted from another forum though  I hate typing. Voice control seemed like a cool feature added....... I will add the "Black Pure Filter" is all new for 2012 and supposed to be top notch improving the black level. The Samsung line is strong, as always......

Samsung E8000 Series
The E8000 is the flagship plasma from Samsung for 2012. The new All Black Pure Filter improves contrast and black levels 10% over last year. Improved black levels also improves the color performance. *The E8000 has the new Smart Interaction that uses a camera to recognize your face and lets you interact with your TV via voice commands or motion control.*
PN64E8000, PN60E8000, PN51E8000

Samsung E7000 Series
The E7000 replaces the D7000 from last year, it also has the new All Black Pure Filter that increases contrast 10% over the previous models. The E7000 has a dual core processor that allows you to multitask while using the expanded Smart TV suite that adds more apps to the app store and a full web browser to the E7000.
PN64E7000, PN60E7000, PN51E7000

Samsung E6500 Series
The E6500 is a mid tier plasma from Samsung that contains many of the features you would expect in a top tier model. It has the All Black Pure Filter for increased contrast, a 1080p 3D plasma panel, the expanded Smart TV suite with more than 1500 available apps and the new full web browser. The E6500 also has built in WiFi.
PN64E6500, PN60E6500, PN51E6500

Samsung E550 Series
The E550 presents consumers with a budget priced 1080p 3D plasma television. Available in 4 sizes ranging from 43" - 64" the E550 has active 3D and includes 2 pairs of glasses and has the expanded Smart TV online suite. If you are looking for a value priced television with many high end features the E550 is worth a look.
PN64E550, PN60E550, PN51E550, PN43E550

Samsung E490 Series
In a push to get 3D into every one's living room Samsung produces series like the E490, a 720p 3D plasma television available in 2 sizes. They replace the popular D490 from last year and should be good sellers in 2012. The E490 is improved with the Real Black Filter that was found on top tier models last year and improve the contrast of the plasma panel.
PN59E490, PN51E490


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## Matt Marceau

Thanks, Chris. I can't believe that's all the info they have on them. Maybe they're very similar to last year's sets.


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## JimP

Seems to me that with Samsung having reference color (that neither Panasonic or Sharp (Elite) could achieve) that if Samsung could just tweak a couple of their weaknesses, they'd have a killer set. And it seems that Samsung's issues may be easier to fix than the others.


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## Radtech51

JimP said:


> Seems to me that with Samsung having reference color (that neither Panasonic or Sharp (Elite) could achieve) that if Samsung could just tweak a couple of their weaknesses, they'd have a killer set. And it seems that Samsung's issues may be easier to fix than the others.


Samsung may be a big contender in the field but I don't' like they way they do business and I won't be buying anything from them again. They have a history of steeling company's technology like Sharp's Full-Array and Apple's well everything about them actually. And this latest insult upon Apple and there consumers through their offensive commercials has made me completely loose faith in the company all together, they have No honor and no customer with me. :rant:


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## JimP

Radtech51,

Those same issues concern me as well. Don't want to encourage a technology thief.


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## Radtech51

JimP said:


> Radtech51,
> 
> Those same issues concern me as well. Don't want to encourage a technology thief.


Just hope I'm around to see the day we consumers put that company out of business. addle:


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## dsskid

I see LG was the 2012 CES best in show award recipient for display.

http://ces.cnet.com/best-of-ces/


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## DJG

Promises, promises ... still, I still have my 55LE8500 - makes a great digital frame for my landscapes!


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## obxdiver

I wonder if Robert had that meeting with the Elite engineers?
CES ends today right?


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## DJG

I'm sure he'll post as soon as he has info ... every night I resist the temptation to ask


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## dsskid

DJG said:


> Promises, promises ... still, I still have my 55LE8500 - makes a great digital frame for my landscapes!


? :huh:


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## DJG

Meaning, LG promises but doesn't always deliver - the LE8500 came close to looking great but the stupid banding killed it. I thought I could get used to it ... it was a brave attempt. Rather than lose a bunch of money getting rid of it, I use it as a huge digital frame for my landscape photographs (see signature link) which look great in it, because since there's no movement you can't really see the banding.

You mean that wasn't that obvious???


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## cleveland plasma

LH90 was a better set, probably the best LED LG made  I wish they would have just kept making it for the last 2 years. At the time that might have seemed like a poor idea, but for what they have had in the last 2 years the 55LH90 was a steal at $1800. The 47LH90 was sweet too at $1300 if I remember right. Just amazing they where priced and the quality level !!


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## dsskid

DJG said:


> Meaning, LG promises but doesn't always deliver - the LE8500 came close to looking great but the stupid banding killed it. I thought I could get used to it ... it was a brave attempt. Rather than lose a bunch of money getting rid of it, I use it as a huge digital frame for my landscape photographs (see signature link) which look great in it, because since there's no movement you can't really see the banding.
> 
> You mean that wasn't that obvious???


It was this time last year that the VT30 was awarded the CES best in show award, and this after the rising blacks and floating debacles of the 2-3 previous years. 

Fast forward to 2012 and LG's OLED is being criticized for a previous LED model's banding issue.

Perhaps if the OLED had a Panasonic or Sharp moniker on it, it would be a different story.


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## dsskid

cleveland plasma said:


> LH90 was a better set, probably the best LED LG made  I wish they would have just kept making it for the last 2 years. At the time that might have seemed like a poor idea, but for what they have had in the last 2 years the 55LH90 was a steal at $1800. The 47LH90 was sweet too at $1300 if I remember right. Just amazing they where priced and the quality level !!


I agree Chris, it was a helluva display.


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## DJG

cleveland plasma said:


> LH90 was a better set, probably the best LED LG made  I wish they would have just kept making it for the last 2 years. At the time that might have seemed like a poor idea, but for what they have had in the last 2 years the 55LH90 was a steal at $1800. The 47LH90 was sweet too at $1300 if I remember right. Just amazing they where priced and the quality level !!


Sure, NOW you tell me . But at least I can thank you for my Elite .


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## cleveland plasma

LOL, well keep in mind you would have to get a used one that is at least 18 months old now....... I wish I had a warehouse of 1000 units though


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## DJG

Hence the smiley  instead of the dude swinging a bat addle: .


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## cleveland plasma

Its no to often a manufacturer takes a step backwards, but man LG did just that 2 years ago on there plasma and LED line :rolleyesno: Panasonic also took a step back for calibrators on the VT30. Chad B says it still takes him 5 hours to calibrate a VT30 when the VT25 took 1.5 hours last year. The VT30 to the eye is as good as the VT25 though, maybe a tad better. *Step back for calibrators but not the end user thank goodness.*


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## Matt Marceau

Robert, I hope you're able to do some video evaluations when the new Panasonics and Samsungs ship. Those videos last year with you, Ed, and David were excellent. It would be exciting to see the mid/high-tier 2012s go up against the 2011s.


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## Robert Zohn

Here's the update regarding two Elite firmware updates we're looking for.

First regarding the color fix, the word is _"they are working on this and it's taking far longer than expected"_. So believe it or not, that's all I can get from Sharp at this time. 

Some small good news on the pulsing backgrounds issue is that I now have a channel to submit reproducible content and or up to actual sample X5FD TVs so the engineers can see the video processing problem. And I will continue to pursue fixes and give updates on this thread. 

I have a huge amount of information as well as my personal predictions for the 2012 lines, but this red-eye travel has become more difficult with my natural life progression so I came back to full speed a little more slowly.

Anyway look out for more updates on this and my other news coming very soon.

-Robert


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## DJ Mike Fury

Thanks Robert for keeping us updated. Hopefully Sharp won't just pass this off until the next models come out.. I'll be in the market for this year's upcoming elite probably depending on their response to the 2011/2012 model issues.


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## DJG

Yes, Robert, thank you for your persistent efforts in helping get things fixed and cleared, and eveything else you do for us consumers!

Here's a reproduceable sample of local dimming processing anomaly which may or may not be another symptom of the same pulsing problem and appears to the result of moving high-contrast images, reproduceable in THX mode.

Star Wars Episode V: Empire Strikes Back Blu-ray. Between 14:18 and 14:21, Hans is getting ready to stuff Luke into the carcass, as they show Hans butt & legs you see a bright greenish flash around his legs as they move on the screen. Same effect around his head at 14:38-14:41 as his head moves back & forth above the carcass. If you step the frames, no glow. Let it run, bright greenish glow, but only if local dimming is on.

There's another less obvious example in Sleepy Hollow but it tends to blend with the actual images but this one is very obvious if you know when & where to look.

Thanks again, and hope you had some fun!


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## DJG

BTW, just saw The One (Jet Li, Jason Stratham, Delroy Lindo and the lovely Carla Gugino ), great BD transfer and had great blacks & deep shadow details, and plenty fast moving action scenes. Makes a great showpiece.


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## stillen

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Thanks Robert for keeping us updated. Hopefully Sharp won't just pass this off until the next models come out.. I'll be in the market for this year's upcoming elite probably depending on their response to the 2011/2012 model issues.


plus 1 to that 

thanx Robert


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