# So how many dedicated lines?



## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I have an electrician fixing some problems in my house. He's gonna add a sub panel to straighten out some overloaded lines, so I thinking it is the perfect time to pull some more dedicated lines. So how many do you guys think I should putt. I told him to add another one in the equipment room (that will make 2 in there) & another one for the sub in the front of the room. Is 2 enough in there? I'm planning 7.1.4 currently. I ran another sub cable in the wall just in case I add another sub later. He in going to wire my riser also.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ive got 3 dedicated lines and its overkill. My Ethereal power conditioners never go above 2.5amp draw and Ive got two dedicated 2ch amps plus all my other gear plugged into them. The 3rd circuit has a UPS for the projector on it and the sub plugged directly into the wall plug. 
I suspect 2 would be sufficient.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Thanks Tony, I was figuring 2 would be enough in there, just wanted to see what others were seeing.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

So is there anything I should make sure the electrician does...like a certain gauge wire or type of breaker. Electricity is definitely not my forte! The run from the box to the equipment room should be about 60 feet.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well, if you want to future proof it get him to run 12/2 and that way you can up the breaker to a 20amp if the need ever arises. Do you have whol house surge protection? Spend the $100 and have one added to the main panel.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Tonto... There is never such thing as overkill  Ok mine maybe be overkill. 10 dedicated circuits (8 are for my rack) and those are 63' from the dedicated panel which is a 200a panel but being fed from my pain panel with a 2P 240V 60amp circuit. I have some large #4awg cabling on one circuit, 3 circuits are #8 and 2 are #10 and a couple 14awg. 

I have played at -10db a sub demanding movies and have monitored my amperage and have seen long term sustained amps at 7-9a with consistent peaks in the 12-14amp range with max peaks hitting 22amps. This is with a XPA-7, 5 channel SVS speakers, blu-ray, xmc-1 and a single HSU 15" sub with 600w amplifier. The amplifier alone is the major source for load out of the entire system and adding a second I'll see amps pushing max peaks to around 30 amps. THE AMP DRAW WOULD BE MUCH GREATER AT REFERENCE!

The point is... it all depends on your system and wants. The biggest thing I can suggest is using larger cabling. The 14awg really takes a hit on voltage swings with the peaks and the 12 is the minimum you should consider. I'd highly suggest #10awg wiring using a 20amp circuit feeding 15amp duplex receptacles (this is legal). The wire would be slightly oversized and help keep voltage drop to a minimum and the 20amp provides headroom for peaks if using larger subs.

2 dedicated circuits will handle 97% of the "enthusiast" crowd out there imho. 3 would be sufficient and would suggest having one each for subs and the rest for the amp/rest. 

I'm a Master Electrician with the know-how and I had all the wire/equipment from leftover projects so I said... why not build the most overkill setup you can find


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't know if you need more electricity in your garage or not but I would love to have two or three 20 amp circuits and two 220V drops put there.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I don't have a garage, just a carport. This room is upstairs on the end of the house. I assume you want 220 lines to power external amps. Is there a benefit to that as opposed to 110. I'm totally lost with electricity.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Tally wrote:



> I'd highly suggest #10awg wiring using a 20amp circuit feeding 15amp duplex receptacles (this is legal). The wire would be slightly oversized and help keep voltage drop to a minimum and the 20amp provides headroom for peaks if using larger subs.


So it is looking like a line for my sub (SVS PB13-U): 10 ga
Another for the amps in my equipment room: 10 ga
Already one dedicated line now.

What's you're thoughts on the 220 lines?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

No, 220v is different. Just wire for two dedicated 120v 20amp circuits and you will be fine. Unless your like Tally and run your system at 120db sustained your never going to even come close to half of the incoming powers 12amp limit on a 15am circuit. 
What you are thinking of is running a 4/2 circuit where you have two hots and share one neutral and that is not the best route.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I want the extra electricity in the garage for bigger power tools.
Jointer, cabinet saw, heavy duty dust collector.
Stick with standard house wiring for your audio/video gear.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Thanks, you guys are the best!


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Tonto said:


> So is there anything I should make sure the electrician does...


Tell him to make sure all the HT circuits are on the same phase.

Also, 10 ga. wire will pose a problem with common residential-grade electrical outlets, as they will usually accept only 12 or 14 ga. wire. Perhaps Talley can comment with his recommendations, but I expect you’ll have to use industrial-grade outlets that use screw-down clamps.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Tell him to make sure all the HT circuits are on the same phase.
> 
> Also, 10 ga. wire will pose a problem with common residential-grade electrical outlets, as they will usually accept only 12 or 14 ga. wire. Perhaps Talley can comment with his recommendations, but I expect you’ll have to use industrial-grade outlets that use screw-down clamps.
> 
> ...


Same phase is smart idea.

10g will work you just pigtail. use a small 5" piece of 14g or 12g on the receptacle itself and wirenut to the 10g.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Talley said:


> 10g will work you just pigtail. use a small 5" piece of 14g or 12g on the receptacle itself and wirenut to the 10g.


At that point you might as well just run 12awg the entire way.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> At that point you might as well just run 12awg the entire way.


no. Very common to oversize cables and reduce down at the termination point in the electrical industry for main purpose of voltage drop.

I'll never run any of my equipment on less than 8awg and this is 65' from the panel. I've backed up my concerns with actual data and although #4 is overkill and #8 is overkill also 10awg is a nice sweet spot that I can recommend for most people if they have the luxury of having an electrician installing new wiring. Me... well I'm sticking to #8awg at a minimum.

I have 14awg sized pigtails even from my #4 but you benefit from the larger cable because of the voltage drop... having a short pigtail does not affect the signal since it's so short.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Talley said:


> Same phase is smart idea. 10g will work you just pigtail. use a small 5" piece of 14g or 12g on the receptacle itself and wirenut to the 10g.


I would fire an electrician for doing something like that.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Well I've been searching for outlets that will accept 10 ga wire. I am finding plenty of industrial options, none of them say the size wire they will accept. Prices from $10-$50 each. Anybody got a link?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Toto, don't go that route. Just run 12awg all the way. Your bank account will thank you and you will NEVER hear feel or see a difference.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Toto, don't go that route. Just run 12awg all the way. Your bank account will thank you and you will NEVER hear feel or see a difference.


I agree, no need to over think this. Stick with standard residential products.
If you add enough additional circuits you may have to add a new panel $$ or worst case a new feed to the house $$$$


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Talley said:


> 10g will work you just pigtail. use a small 5" piece of 14g or 12g on the receptacle itself and wirenut to the 10g.





Talley said:


> no. Very common to oversize cables and reduce down at the termination point in the electrical industry for main purpose of voltage drop.


The problem is that you’ve choked down current capacity to no more than what 12 or 14 ga. can deliver. That’s an issue with amplifiers. Full voltage won’t matter if they can’t get the amperage they need.

All in all, not the best practice for audio amplification circuits, or at least not ones where current expectations actually required 10 ga.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Tonto said:


> Well I've been searching for outlets that will accept 10 ga wire. I am finding plenty of industrial options, none of them say the size wire they will accept. Prices from $10-$50 each. Anybody got a link?


I’m sure any industrial outlet will accept 10 ga., especially Romex which is thinner than the stranded THHN typically used in commercial and industrial.

Just bring a flat-blade screw driver and box cutter to your local big-box hardware store, buy a foot of 10 ga. Romex, strip out the individual wires and try it with an industrial outlet. You should be able to get a name-brand device (Pass & Seymour, Hubbel) for under $15.

That said, from the brief description you gave of your equipment in the first post it doesn’t appear that you’d benefit from going with 10 ga. Still, I’d consider industrial outlets to be a worthwhile upgrade over your typical 50c residential grade outlet. Built better, and grip the plugs tighter.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Thanks Wayne, I do plan on getting external amps eventually. I'll have to have them for Atmos. but just how powerful, that's yet to be decided. I would like to have, at the least, 150 watts/channel for my mails. The Atmos speakers (4) could probably be driven with much less. I just know how the upgrade bug hits & thinking it would be better to go with a little overkill now than rewire later. Good idea about Home Depot, I'll go by there tomorrow. They have the cheapest 10/2 I've found. $103/250 ft.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I've got two dedicated amps both are 600watts and then my receiver which is also powerhouse. As I said before my two Eathereal power conditioners never hit 3amps each and that leaves a lot of headroom.
My mains are efficient but becaus of there size still use a fair bit of power. I run reference levels often


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

chashint said:


> I would fire an electrician for doing something like that.


Oh really... guess what buddy... on circuits that daisy chain from one receptacle to another your SUPPOSE to pigtail per code. it's standard practice. depending on the breaker size if it's 15a then use a 14g or 12g pigtail or if it's 20a breaker than use 12g pigtail. 

If it's a dedicated line then just use a fork lug: http://www.amazon.com/Panduit-PV10-10F-L-Terminal-Insulated-Funnel/dp/B005T57MLG

fork lug the #10 wire and go directly to the screw of the receptacle. This is truly the best way to terminate wire and I recommend fork lugs over any kind of wrap around method or stab into the back (for 14g outlets that offer this) unless your using a receptacle that has a backplate on the screw head. MOST 20amp receptacles have this and accept 10awg: http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay...gId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

Please do not question my electrical experience. I am one of the few who offer the right way of doing an installation.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The problem is that you’ve choked down current capacity to no more than what 12 or 14 ga. can deliver. That’s an issue with amplifiers. Full voltage won’t matter if they can’t get the amperage they need.
> 
> All in all, not the best practice for audio amplification circuits, or at least not ones where current expectations actually required 10 ga.
> 
> ...


Wayne you misunderstood me and/or maybe I didn't clarify properly. You never want to install wire that is smaller than what is rated for the breaker size. Your not going to choke anything by installing #8 wire from panel to outlet and at outlet wirenutting a small pigtail that is #12 for a 20a circuit.

Voltage drop... do the math. anything w/ #14 will exceed code during heavy use for an audio system and 12 will be sufficient up to around 75' away from panel for most use. It really depends on how much load your putting on a single circuit as well.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> I've got two dedicated amps both are 600watts and then my receiver which is also powerhouse. As I said before my two Eathereal power conditioners never hit 3amps each and that leaves a lot of headroom.
> My mains are efficient but becaus of there size still use a fair bit of power. I run reference levels often


Your sub alone will use more than 3 amps. My HSU hits 7amps peaks. As it is right now I "could" run my system on a single 20a circuit but adding a second sub will be pushing a single 20a circuit limits during demo/show off sessions.

two circuits would cost alot of people... three is good to go. Use #10 and never look back. You'll never have any issues this way.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Tonto said:


> Thanks Wayne, I do plan on getting external amps eventually. I'll have to have them for Atmos. but just how powerful, that's yet to be decided. I would like to have, at the least, 150 watts/channel for my mails. The Atmos speakers (4) could probably be driven with much less. I just know how the upgrade bug hits & thinking it would be better to go with a little overkill now than rewire later. Good idea about Home Depot, I'll go by there tomorrow. They have the cheapest 10/2 I've found. $103/250 ft.


It may cost you 50 more than the 12 but consider buying only what is needed as well. they sell 100' rolls too for cheaper. In the end if you install 75' for a circuit it'll cost you about 15 bucks more for that single circuit for the 10 vs. the 12 and you'll bulletproof your installation.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Talley said:


> Oh really... guess what buddy... on circuits that daisy chain from one receptacle to another your SUPPOSE to pigtail per code. it's standard practice. depending on the breaker size if it's 15a then use a 14g or 12g pigtail or if it's 20a breaker than use 12g pigtail.


Hmm. Well, there must be a lot of electricians out there violating code. I’ve never seen a house where they didn’t daisy chain by connecting both the line and load to the outlet directly.



> If it's a dedicated line then just use a fork lug: http://www.amazon.com/Panduit-PV10-10F-L-Terminal-Insulated-Funnel/dp/B005T57MLG


Please tell me you aren’t using those with Romex!



Talley said:


> Wayne you misunderstood me and/or maybe I didn't clarify properly. You never want to install wire that is smaller than what is rated for the breaker size. Your not going to choke anything by installing #8 wire from panel to outlet and at outlet wirenutting a small pigtail that is #12 for a 20a circuit.


_My_ point was that by pigtailing like that you lose the added amperage capacity that you would otherwise be getting by upgrading to 10 ga.

As far as voltage drop goes – in over thirty years as an audio enthusiast I’ve never seen that floated as a concern with audio amplification from any industry publication or on any forum. Rather, sufficient amperage is the concern. Maybe if someone has a house so huge that it has 200 ft. runs from the panel, but IMO it’s a non-issue in most cases.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Hmm. Well, there must be a lot of electricians out there violating code. I’ve never seen a house where they didn’t daisy chain by connecting both the line and load to the outlet directly.


While it's not technically 100% wrong it can be depending on your municipal code... some require all recpetacles passing through to another to be pigtailed. NEC requires the neutral to be pigtailed if your using multi-wire setups (mostly commercial). However, with my service work experience I have come across too many situations where the receptacle failed and it shut down the rest of the line because it was wired "pass through" as you would call the direct connection. I've just learned there is some applications where the NEC is a minimum and if you pigtail the connections and you have a single receptacle fail then you do not disrupt the rest of the outlets.  Again a non issue if you are wiring direct to a single cable however using larger wiring for purpose of voltage drop sometimes pigtail to the smaller correct size cable is required for termination.



Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Please tell me you aren’t using those with Romex!


I use stranded... I got thrown off in the mix of my many responses but you are correct those are not listed for solid cabling. Again #10 would work directly to most all commercial grade/hospital grade 20amp receptacles. Most all that I've seen work with 10g.



Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> _My_ point was that by pigtailing like that you lose the added amperage capacity that you would otherwise be getting by upgrading to 10 ga.
> 
> As far as voltage drop goes – in over thirty years as an audio enthusiast I’ve never seen that floated as a concern with audio amplification from any industry publication or on any forum. Rather, sufficient amperage is the concern. Maybe if someone has a house so huge that it has 200 ft. runs from the panel, but IMO it’s a non-issue in most cases.
> 
> ...


you don't run 10g for ampacity... this is controlled by the breaker anyway and your not installing 30amp 120v receptacles on 30a breakers... it's 20/20 or 15/15 or more commonly found is 20amp breaker using 15amp receptacles (this is OK per code as long as it's a duplex receptacle). The larger size is for voltage not ampacity period. Remember your IEC connectors are mostly 15amp w/ the cords being 14g to 16g... ooohh the choke lol

30 years of audio industry means nothing to me when it comes to residential playback systems with regular household wiring by residential electricians. I'd love to actually get some feedback from studio builders setups, I'd almost venture to say they use larger wiring under many circumstances (maybe not all). 200' from panel would be a major concern but don't let that fool you even 65' on 12g you exceed code on voltage drop with anything more than 14amps for branch circuitry. obviously this is for small brief peaks and isn't "really" code violation BUT using 10g on 65' lets you get the full 20 amps and still maintain under 3% voltage drop. The audio industry is full of snake oil... power to your devices is pure engineering facts but seldom recognized by these residential installers. Why install voltage regulators at the device when simple proper wiring will maintain your voltage (outside the control of the utility where there are fluctuations)

My friend is a prime example... panel to garage was 130' of cabling and my recommendation was to use #8 on a garage outlet that he wanted for his electric pressure washer. I told him the voltage drop would be too much and he'd need that larger cable. The electrician went and installed 12g wire and the issue lies that he cannot use this circuit anymore because the electric motor would bog down and go into thermal overload. the reason could be he was using a 100' 12g cord on top of the feeder to the outlet. He ended up having to use the dryer circuit which was 10g and putting that on a regular outlet wired to a 20a breaker and upgraded his cord to a 10g cord that I made him out of SOOW and now he has no issues.

...I'm done w/ this topic. I just don't get the fight for a quality installation.


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## doublejroc (Feb 5, 2011)

Talley you're in the wrong forum. 

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Talley said:


> Oh really... guess what buddy...


First off don't "buddy" me, it is disrespectful.



> on circuits that daisy chain from one receptacle to another your SUPPOSE to pigtail per code.


Actually this is in the parallel wiring section and not pigtail specific, just parallel wired.



> it's standard practice. depending on the breaker size if it's 15a then use a 14g or 12g pigtail or if it's 20a breaker than use 12g pigtail. If it's a dedicated line then just use a fork lug: http://www.amazon.com/Panduit-PV10-10F-L-Terminal-Insulated-Funnel/dp/B005T57MLG fork lug the #10 wire and go directly to the screw of the receptacle. This is truly the best way to terminate wire and I recommend fork lugs over any kind of wrap around method


Very unfortunate that you posted this solution when talking about residential wiring, kinda takes the steam out of the argument.



> or stab into the back (for 14g outlets that offer this) unless your using a receptacle that has a backplate on the screw head. MOST 20amp receptacles have this and accept 10awg: http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=158888-1571-CR20-WCP6&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=3536376&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1
> 
> Please do not question my electrical experience. I am one of the few who offer the right way of doing an installation.


Coming from someone you questions everyone else's "professional" opinion and experience I find this last jab to be rather amusing.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Recap:

2-3 dedicated circuits would do great. I won't bother the installation methods anymore... you can run 14g and use 15amp circuits and it'll still work... even on 200' runs. however you do it is your own choice. 12g will work as well.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Alright folks, let’s all play nice.

Doublejroc, that “moo” means you tried to use coarse language and the Forum software took it out. I’ve edited your post.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## doublejroc (Feb 5, 2011)

Not a problem. My mistake! 

Sent from my SM-G870W using Tapatalk


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Talley said:


> I'd love to actually get some feedback from studio builders setups, I'd almost venture to say they use larger wiring under many circumstances (maybe not all).


I can help you with that. I used to be an installer with the largest pro-audio company in the Houston area. 

Actually, a studio isn’t an especially demanding installation, WRT electrical considerations, compared to a live-sound reinforcement system in a large church or civic auditorium.

But either way, we typically spec’d the electrical requirements for all our installations as part of the bid. The norm was dedicated IG circuits on the same phase. No mention was ever made of 10-ga. or heavier wire, probably because we typically spec’d enough circuits to adequately cover amplification needs (for example, separate circuits for lows, mids and highs amplifiers). 

The company owner and system designer was a Rice EE, so I have to believe he knew what he was doing. Unlike power washers, audio circuits are not continuous duty.

If you could tell us that after upgrading your system’s electrical service that you got an audible improvement in sound quality compared to the previous “vanilla” wiring, it would carry a lot more weight.


Regards, 
Wayne


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I can help you with that. I used to be an installer with the largest pro-audio company in the Houston area.
> 
> Actually, a studio isn’t an especially demanding installation, WRT electrical considerations, compared to a live-sound reinforcement system in a large church or civic auditorium.
> 
> ...


I have zero comments on the above. You are correct by having enough circuits for each item eliminates any major loading and makes voltage drop a non issue. The only people having issues are the ones who use a regular house outlet and put all their equipment on it. a single dedicated circuit helps tremendously and again 2 would cover most all needs 3 is on the overkill side of things.

Again the only reason I installed large diameter cable and installed a dedicated circuit for each and every piece of equipment I have was because I already had the cable and didn't take me much work to do so. I'm sorry but I cannot comment on the audible differences from the speakers because I did my electrical wiring first before I put my system together. I did however try to use a power strip to the regular house outlet and had issues with ground loop hum. The dedicated setup I've eliminated that.

For example a dedicated 15amp circuit w/ 14g wiring to a single outlet I've installed is only for my 8 port network switch that I think only consumes around 20 watts. This is overkill on an entirely new level but I had everything so it didn't cost me nothing but an evening of labor to install the circuits.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Getting the thread back on track:



Tonto said:


> Thanks Tony, I was figuring 2 would be enough in there, just wanted to see what others were seeing.


I ran two dedicated quasi-isolated ground lines for my system. I plug the amplifiers into one (receiver and sub amp), and source components into the other. 

I can’t claim that there was any actual improvement in the performance of my system, but it just didn’t sit right with me for all that gear on a non-dedicated line, all plugged into a cheap residential-grade outlet. That particular circuit was overloaded as it was, and always tripping the breaker, which gave me a good excuse to get the audio gear off of it.

Just to show the importance of having all circuits on the same phase: Our TV is on an outside wall that has no attic access, so much as I would have preferred to have _all_ the HT gear on the dedicated lines, it just wasn’t possible. I noticed a bit of 60-cycle noise in the system and figured that the circuit the TV was plugged into might be the culprit. Sure enough, it was on the opposite phase from the dedicated lines I had run. I switched that circuit over to the same phase, and the noise was greatly reduced.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Talley said:


> I have zero comments on the above. You are correct by having enough circuits for each item eliminates any major loading and makes voltage drop a non issue. The only people having issues are the ones who use a regular house outlet and put all their equipment on it. a single dedicated circuit helps tremendously and again 2 would cover most all needs 3 is on the overkill side of things.
> 
> Again the only reason I installed large diameter cable and installed a dedicated circuit for each and every piece of equipment I have was because I already had the cable and didn't take me much work to do so. I'm sorry but I cannot comment on the audible differences from the speakers because I did my electrical wiring first before I put my system together. I did however try to use a power strip to the regular house outlet and had issues with ground loop hum. The dedicated setup I've eliminated that.
> 
> For example a dedicated 15amp circuit w/ 14g wiring to a single outlet I've installed is only for my 8 port network switch that I think only consumes around 20 watts. This is overkill on an entirely new level but I had everything so it didn't cost me nothing but an evening of labor to install the circuits.


I am not an electrician, but when we were wiring our HT...we were told that there was a specific wire gauge for a circuit (and length), and going to a bigger gauge was against code. I was surprised that going to a larger gauge was against code, but we did as directed.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Tally wrote:



> It may cost you 50 more than the 12 but consider buying only what is needed as well. they sell 100' rolls too for cheaper. In the end if you install 75' for a circuit it'll cost you about 15 bucks more for that single circuit for the 10 vs. the 12 and you'll bulletproof your installation.


I'm also planning to run of about 100 ft from the panel to my carport for a 220 outlet so I can use my welding machine. The stick welder calls for a 50 amp breaker. I was assuming this wire would work, but now I'm realizing that I actually have no idea what is needed for a 220 circuit. Thoughts...thanks again for all you guy's inputs.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

ellisr63 said:


> I am not an electrician, but when we were wiring our HT...we were told that there was a specific wire gauge for a circuit (and length), and going to a bigger gauge was against code. I was surprised that going to a larger gauge was against code, but we did as directed.


Yes and no. Bigger size this is not an issue but the termination point means you must reduce the size down via pigtail. The yes part is you cannot overfill a box the wire terminates in. You have to figure the cu-in space of each wire and the device and must fit inside the space. The code gives you space requirements for each size cabling for this task. This could be an issue so a shallow box could limit you but a deeper box would be ok. Again it's all math so you have to calculate what size box u would need before so.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

Tonto said:


> Tally wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm also planning to run of about 100 ft from the panel to my carport for a 220 outlet so I can use my welding machine. The stick welder calls for a 50 amp breaker. I was assuming this wire would work, but now I'm realizing that I actually have no idea what is needed for a 220 circuit. Thoughts...thanks again for all you guy's inputs.


By code #8 can only go on a max of 40a breaker so you'll need #6 which is rated for 55a although code allows #6 to be installed on a 60a breaker so either way you'll be oversized slightly and should be ok. For this application being 240v you'll be ok and could pump 50amps on this circuit and only see a 2% voltage drop which is under the 3% rule. So you'll be ok just make sure he does use #6


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Thanks Talley


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I would have to advise any one doing electrical work to check their local codes to be sure...nothing against Talley (he has provided a lot of useful info), but your City might have a different opinion on what is to code in your area. It never hurts to check. :T

I would hate for someone to do the work, and then the inspector comes by and says no.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

ellisr63 said:


> I would have to advise any one doing electrical work to check their local codes to be sure...nothing against Talley (he has provided a lot of useful info), but your City might have a different opinion on what is to code in your area. It never hurts to check. :T
> 
> I would hate for someone to do the work, and then the inspector comes by and says no.


This is true. NEC is just a minimum. Some areas require things like pigtails on passthrough devices  some requires the neutral bond to be at the panel some at the meter can... many other stuff like that... some are very annoying to deal with and then you also get the inspector that has his "wants" and you gotta push back because it's just a want and not to even what he is suppose to be enforcing.


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