# Erin's (hopeful) HT



## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

About 4 years ago I built a home with every intention on making the upstairs space my dedicated HT. Long story short, that didn't happen. Flash forward to now and I'm building again. And again, I'm wiring up the room for HT use. Though, I don't foresee the HT being grandiose... or necessarily even completed in some form for quite a while, I wanted to go ahead and start tracking the build. Updates may be few and far between but thus is the nature of a build thread. 

The room itself is on the 2nd floor. Dimensions are roughly 16x26x9. The room does have kneewalls which consumes some space. Though, luckily, it's not terrible. This room is above my garage. 

Below is a screen shot of the bonus room's overview.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Very nice sized room! Be sure to put wiring everywhere and post pics as you go. Have a great time building your new room!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Definitely post up some pics Erin - you know how much we love them!

Subscribed!


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## mcascio (Dec 5, 2010)

Hi Erin.

Looking forward to your build. Like many, these builds do take time. The planning stage is critical to prevent rework down the road. You've got a great space to work with. My actual build went much faster than the actual planning and pre-construction work I had to do.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

kept meaning to update this.

I ran wires last week. I posted the following in another thread then but posting it here to save myself from typing it up again. 


I spent half the day wiring up my bonus room. Since wire is pretty cheap, I went ahead and wired up the stuff I'm certain I'll never actually use, much less need. But why not, right?
:wave:

I decided to go with 9.4 wiring (the x.4 because I'm a huge proponent of multiple subs to smooth response). 

I ran 12g 4-conductor wire for the front L/C/R in case I actually go through with a baffle wall build and DIY my own front stage. Or, I can just use the wires ran to bi-amp each speaker. For the 4 subs I went 2 in front, and 2 in the rear area. Subs were all ran with both a coax and 12g speaker wire so I have the flexibility for a powered sub or going with a separate amp (mainly for IB). Speaking of IB, I have tons of attic space on either side of the room. The two rear subs' mounting brackets were placed at ear level so I can play around with height subs. As part of the 9.x setup, I also ran wires for front highs; this is the one I'm most curious about. I ran a redmere HDMI along with (2) cat6 runs to the PJ just in case times change on me. 













Closet pictures:








This is one attic side of the room, where I plan to place the IB subs toward the front:


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

That is going to be a great space when it is completed and the attic space for the IB's is definitely a bonus.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

The IB up front is a good idea. I know that many folks in the industry say that below 80Hz bass is not directional, but I can always tell where the subs are in my room.


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## mcascio (Dec 5, 2010)

Looking good. You might consider wiring for 11.4 while you're at. Adding Heights and Wides to the front of the room. Easier to do now than later.  You can look at the Audyssey specs to see where they land in your room. Your wides might actually end up along the side wall depending upon your main seating position.

I really enjoy the added effect of the heights and wides to my room.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I did some more "clean up" stuff today. I went through the room with the hammer and hit each piece of the framing to see if I heard any rattles anywhere. The can lights were a very legitimate issue (no surprise there). I was surprised, however, to hear a can rattle when I hit a piece of wood 2 studs over. Interesting that the transmission carries so far. The cans are sliding cans and while the sliding mechanism caused some rattles, the largest contributor by far was the wiring box itself. So, I took the advice of some folks via Google and wrapped it up in electrical tape. Problem solved. I went around the room hitting stuff and jumping up and down like a goof and didn't find any other points of rattle. I plan to go back tomorrow and wrap some wires in foam as they may rattle and I want to make sure to take care of it now. 


I took a video of this and put it on youtube (link below). I know this is a pretty common thing but someone who isn't familiar with it may benefit and I'm always down to help someone else save themselves headaches later on. 









I also ran a couple 14g runs in the garage for speaker testing. That way I can wheel out my test baffle and plug the speaker wire in to the wall plate rather than running a 25ft set of speaker wire every time I go to test.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for the link Erin - handy trick.

However, the youtube video I really would like to see if the one of you "jumping up and down like a goof"...


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## J&D (Apr 11, 2008)

Really nice space you have there. Should make an excellent HT. Definitely want to watch this come to life. Thanks for sharing.


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## eyekode (Jan 19, 2008)

Erin, I have enjoyed your speaker testing posts and I look forward to seeing what you come up with for your theater! I am currently ripping up my bonus room and trying to turn it into a theater-ish space so this is of particular interest to me now .


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

just a small update on the state of things...


the drywall is just about done entirely. 












I just purchased a set of the Kef R500 speakers for front mains and will use the Kef R200c for center. If anyone has heard the R-series from Kef you know they are an absolute value and sound fantastic. Even some of the more well regarded audio mags have compared them to speakers costing 10x their price. I've 'been around the block' with speakers and I've yet to hear a speaker with such detail and incredible soundstaging as Kef's R-series concentric drivers can manage. I mean, it's astounding. Even their Q100 bookshelves left me incredibly impressed. So, I'm looking forward to getting to use them. But, it'll be a while until I'm able to.

So, here's a stock photo of the R500:


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## outvoted (Feb 14, 2013)

Looks Great Erin. I'm looking forward to hearing those Kefs (hoping I get an invite)


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

you're always welcome, man! You can come on over now, if you want. Bring a paintbrush! lol.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I've been out of the game for the past few months. We finished up the house and moved in last weekend. Slowly unpacking everyting and I'm planning the HT. Initialy I wanted to have all the cool stuff, but I also have to keep a level head about this. I won't be using it a lot and it's illogical (and irresponsible) for me to spend a ton of money just to have the cool toys for people to envy. I used to be *that* guy. It's pretty lame. I think most of the people here would probably admit to this as well. Sometimes it's easy to get caught up in the forum mentality where you subconsciously are competing with some guy you've never met or trying to appease someone else's suggestion even though it's not the best choice for yourself. I'm happy to admit that I've gotten caught up in that too many times. Over the past couple years I've really gotten more self aware of this and have to hit the kill switch on my brain sometimes. lol. 

Anyway, here's an update on things and some choices I've made for gear. I likely won't be ordering anything right away but this at least gives me a budget to shoot for. I've been working a lot of OT to build up some funds to complete this. I'm shooting to have it done by November.

I already own the speakers I plan to use, down to the (6) AE IB15's I purchased last year for the project. Here's a picture of the HT room with some gear sitting in the floor begging to be opened (Kef R500, R200c, & AE IB15's):









As it stands my speaker list consists of the following:
Kef R500 (L/R Main)
Kef R200C (Center)
Kef Q100 (L/R Surround)
(6) AE IB15

As for the AE's... they may not even be used. I've been really having some doubts about going that route for a few reasons but I'm going to hang on to them until I know for sure I won't be using them. So, AE's aside, I'm also juggling a few different ideas. Depending on how I plan to implement it, I could wind up using any combination or multiples of the following:
SI HT18
Dayton Ultimax 15
Dayton Ultimax 12
I already have a Behringer EP2500 for sub amp duty.


After going back and forth on various Denon models, I settled on the 2313ci. It has good power ratings and the features I want at a very good price since it's an outgoing model. One other feature I need from an AVR is 2nd zone control for the back porch. We like to play in the backyard and I'm tired of hearing my iPhone speaker. I purchased outdoor speakers a couple months ago and wired them up. Just gotta apply power and source. The Denon AVR's through airplay are awesome. I can control it all through my phone from outside (track, and volume). That makes my life easy.

I considered stepping up to the xt32 Audyssey mainly to get the SubEQ processing (processes two subs independently). But that means a significant jump in price up to at least $1200 (the AVR-X4000 is the cheapest Denon AVR with this tech in it). It does a lot of other stuff, but the selling feature *to me* would be the SubEQ. That's an incredible amount of money to do what I know I can do myself with a miniDSP and room treatments, so I'm going to use the miniDSP Balanced board for subwoofer control. Ultimately that nets me a very good compromise in budget and needs/wants. I don't want to spend a ton of money but I know myself well enough to know that if I don't do it right the first time I'm just going to change it again which costs more money in the long run. 

For projection, the Epson 8350 is a few years old but I've not read a single thing bad about it yet. And Epson apparently has one of the best warranty departments in A/V, judging from the reviews and threads on other forums. The 8350 refurb clocks in @ $899. Seems to be the best value hands down. I don't care about 3D or 2.39. 

All of the above means speakers, AVR and PJ are decided on. Screen size is likely going to stick at 106". So, I'm looking at monoprice or DIY. I need to do some research there and determine where the value is (factoring in cost and personal time). That shouldn't be too hard. 

After all this is purchased and installed I'll start determining room treatments needed. I've got all the experience and measurement gear I need there but I know it's going to be a process. I'm hoping the dual sub configuration + miniDSP trials will net me something that doesn't require extensive LF-targeted treatment. Cause that stuff ain't cheap. Nor is it entirely easy when you're talking high Q modes and varying seated locations.

All in all, I feel I've done due diligence. The single most important factor to me is speaker-to-room interaction. That's why I placed more budget emphasis on the speakers I chose. Nothing I've laid ears on can even remotely touch these Kefs. I just wish I was able to afford the big brother version with the dual 8's as opposed to the dual 5.25's for midbass in the R500. Though, the distributed subs should be able to alleviate that concern.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Sounds like a reasonable thought process. The room is looking great cant wait to see the finished project.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

a few minor things.

*First*, I finally ordered my HT receiver. I have been wavering a few weeks/months about which one to get. I finally made my decision last week for sure to go with the Denon AVR-2313CI and decided to wait out a good price. I could get refurb for about $500 shipped but I would only get a 1 year warranty as opposed to 3 year if new. 

I checked Crutchfield Outlet the other night (as I had been regularly) and they had it open box for $509. Their open box deals still have the original mfg warranty apply from date of sale which means I get the 3yr warranty to boot. I wound up using some points and got it for $502 shipped. Yay!

I've also decided that once I go with dual subs (see below) I'll be ordering the miniDSP for subwoofer processing.


*Second*: I'm still trying to decide if I want to go IB or not. I know everyone says it's awesome but there are two issues for me, personally:

Cutting hole(s) in the wall. My wife said it's OK. But then when I explained it to her, she started to have that look ...
I'll admit: I'm a wuss. It's a brand new house... if it were older then it wouldn't be such a personal hurdle/concern. I'm just not sure I want to cut a hole in the walls. I have plenty of attic space and ceiling space but I'm just not sure this is a route I really want to get in to. 
Not sure I completely need it. I've modeled different designs. The IB method, at least with the AE's is a LFE beast. Even compared to the SI HT18's. BUT, I don't have a lot of free time and I personally hate cutting wood. I can buy a flat pack 4 cube enclosure and the HT18 for about $320 shipped. Not a bad deal at all, really. Though, compared to the AE IB15HT the LFE is a solid 8dB lower at 20hz. I've got the (clean) power and could possibly throw a parametric/LT on it as it has plenty of excursion. I may start with one of these and build out from there. Not sure I'll really need (2) right away. Though, having multiples is much more about mechanical FR smoothing than LFE. In that case, there's also the more logical method of using a staggered 12" sub somewhere in the room for this purpose. All of ^ that said, I'm just talking out loud... I'll figure out what to do and just go. But I'm doing a brain dump for now.


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## eyekode (Jan 19, 2008)

Knockdown boxes may be easy to build but they are just as hard to make look good!

If you have never had a "real" sub you might want build a test box. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Salem


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hey Erin... just now seeing this... and glad you got it all going so well. No doubt it will be an awesome room.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

After thinking it over, I've decided to use the AE IB15HT's rather than going with a sealed alignment. Bottom line: there's just no way to make that kind of low end in a box(es) that aren't ridiculously large or inefficient. 

So, I'm trying to decide how many of the (6) I want to use. I know using an even number in a manifold is a way to relieve vibration concerns. So, I either use (4) or I step up to (8). The set will be split evenly with half on one side wall and the other half on the other side wall. I'm thinking (4) will suffice; two on each side.

And in that case, I may use the two left over for garage duty. I've got a 3 car garage divided in to a 2-car section and one-car section via a partition wall. Seems like a good candidate for either an arrayed setup or a manifold. 

hmmmmm


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Hey, guys.

I have a paint/projector screen question...

Here's the picture of the room just so you don't have to click a page back:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b138/bikinpunk/Home Build 2013/file-10.jpg


As you can see in the above picture, the room has a window at the far end which is where the PJ screen will be. Note: The window will be blacked out during HT use. You can also see the walls are dark brown and the slant walls & ceiling are white. This is the area of concern.

I have all my gear except PJ and screen and I've decided on the Epson 8350 for projector. At this point, I just need a screen. I did due diligence to the planning, I felt. However, I didn't pay any attention to the fact that my slanted walls and ceiling were white. Honestly, I just wasn't even thinking about that being an issue. When I started shopping for a PJ screen I realized I may have made a rookie mistake painting them white.

Big question:
Should I paint the white spaces to match the rest of the room's dark brown color? I'm ballparking the price to be around $200-300 and I'm OK with spending that if there's a viable payback such as getting higher PQ and making the choice for PJ screen more straightforward.

So, to summarize: do I really need to paint the whole room the same color or can I leave the white wall/ceiling and just make it up in a screen? 
I should note that my wife has said she is OK with me doing this but she does NOT want it to be full brown; she said to do half mix (1/2 white, 1/2 'chocolate brown'). So, this in and of itself will still limit the total darkness of the room.

Thanks in advance,
Erin


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Personally I would paint that area black, to get the best PQ..But if that's not acceptable, then I would paint the slopes the same colour as the walls and just have the ceiling black..
If the brown in the photo is true to colour, then I definitely wouldn't advise going for a 50% lighter brown..


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

Oh man very nice room!!! 

I seen another guys room that is very similar to yours thats completed. I think I seen it over @ Emotiva hang out, but if I remember correct his setup was all ED speakers and subs. I loved what he did with the space and I bet if you can find it you can get some great ideas off his. I do know yours is a bigger room!!

I know your area will be super sweet!!!!!!! Have fun with this project!!


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

HA!!!!!! Found it!!! Have fun!!


http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...nly/52216-nezffs-new-improved-media-room.html































Picture_Shooter said:


> Oh man very nice room!!!
> 
> I seen another guys room that is very similar to yours thats completed. I think I seen it over @ Emotiva hang out, but if I remember correct his setup was all ED speakers and subs. I loved what he did with the space and I bet if you can find it you can get some great ideas off his. I do know yours is a bigger room!!
> 
> I know your area will be super sweet!!!!!!! Have fun with this project!!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Now that the car audio season has come to a close and I'm done messing with that, I'm ratcheting back up for HT. Money kept me from completing anything but I've been working a lot of OT to build up some funds. There hasn't been any real progress as of late. I had actually almost punted and sold everything in lieu of something completely different: a baffle wall build. 

But, I decided to stick with the plan. If this ht turns out to be something that's used a lot then I'll revisit. I just don't want to put a lot of time and more money in to it right now. And since I mentioned saving time, I decided to go against the IB culture and go with a traditional setup. But I still wanted some low end. Therefore, I ordered (2) of these earlier today:
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-15-ultimax-subwoofer-and-cabinet-package--300-7097



Once I get those in and assembled, I'll start arranging all the speakers and doing measurements to determine the best subwoofer placement. Then use some EQ to help tame modal peaks. 

DIY screen is next. Ordering the material tomorrow. For $100, it's worth a shot. I hope to have my PJ by Christmas so I can show it off to family. But I may not be able to purchase that until January. 

I'll be sure to post up some response measurements of the subs before and after EQ. I'm pretty sure the whole setup is going to sound pretty dang legit. Definitely looking forward to getting to the final stages if room treatment and EQ work. Tuning is kinda fun.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Right now I'm trying to get a feel for screen size and gain/color. I made a thread in the DIY screen section but will ask here as well....

I'm looking to build a screen in the next week or two. 

I'd planned to purchase blackout material from Carl's place due to the cost vs performance. I had done research on the colors and gains, and how that works to your room with ambient lighting and wall colors. My room is dark brown on the walls and white on the ceiling/slant walls. It also has controlled lighting. there is a window right where the screen would go, but that will be blacked out as well (any suggestions while I'm at it?). 

I plan to use the Epson 8350. I am looking at using in the neighborhood of 100" diagona screen. 

The room dimensions are 15ft wide x 26ft deep. The PJ mount in the ceiling is about 15ft off the front wall, which is also roughly where I plan to be seated.

So, that led me to think the blackout cloth with 1.0 gain was the best route for me.

However, I'm still a bit unsure about this given the fact that the ceiling and slant walls are white. I've attached a picture below. If you guys can tell me if the blackout will still be a viable option or not, I'd appreciate it. Is there a better recommendation here?

And again, a picture of the room:










FWIW, this is (somewhere) in the ballpark of where I'll be regarding screen size and location. 110" is about the max. I'm gonna have to play with this and see if 100" makes more sense.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

With the ceiling being white, you may want to consider going with more of a gray screen. IIRC, Don and Mech have recommended some OTS grays before for rooms with potential lighting issues...


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I think you're right. All signs are pointing toward that. I'm going to call the painters and see what it would run to have the ceiling and slant walls painted to match the rest if the room but I'll look at gray screen options as the finically driven alternative.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

This is where I seek input from you guys regarding screen size. I spent quite a while figuring out seating location and screen placement. I used an excel file that calculates distance thresholds for THX, & SMPTE. I based the inputs off a 110" diagonal. Got the values I needed and went upstairs. 

I taped off 110" diagonal earlier, pictures below. This is the approximate screen size and placement I'd be using for 110". (It'll need to come down about 4" or so, but I'm making the viewing angle tradeoff for having the center channel more in line with the sides.) 

Initially, I was thinking 110" would be too large, but after taking it off, I actually felt like the space wasn't large enough even at 14' distance, which is where the picture below was taken from. I started thinking it actually needed to go larger or I need to move closer but I don't have much more space to do that with (after a border is factored in). The excel sheet I used essentially encourages me to move closer to the screen, giving me "the okay" at 12ft distance. 

So, do you guys get the same impression from the photo below or do you think 110" is fine or even too large? I'm wondering if this is just a case of needing to have the screen up and a picture on it to really appreciate the size, and that the 110" @ 14ft really isn't as small as it seems drawn out with painters tape. Or maybe I do need to move closer or increase the size.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

My screen is actually a little smaller than that - I think I am right around 100" - and it seems big to me. Now, my first row of seating is at 9' so that should be factored in.

My thoughts - I think the 110" will be plenty big. What I would suggest is moving the seating closer - IIRC, your room length is 26' and with the worst room modes occurring in the 40-60% region (per Bryan), having your seating at 14-15' puts you right in that zone.

Not sure if you planned two rows or not, but I would put a first row at 10' and a second row at 17' in that size room. That way, you avoid the room modes and have seating for those that like the close up "immersive" feel and those that gravitate to the back of the theater.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Room modes are a funny thing. These programs calculate them but don't factor in speaker placement. That's what really matters. The relative location of you vs the loudspeaker in a room. Not just the rooms own acoustic temperament with zero objects (couch, etc) in effect. 

But, I do believe that moving up may be the answer. I'm somewhat torn between the 100" and 110" screen size now because I do have so much leeway in where I can sit. All these projector calculators suggest that 110" is the better option for immersion sitting at about 12ft. 

I may just go for that size and then move depending on that. Also having to account for speaker placement here as well.


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## Horrorfan33 (Jun 11, 2013)

I don't know much about the actual calculations, but I have a 100" screen in my living room theater and sit exactly 12' away and I think it's about perfect!!..So, I think 110" might be about perfect from 14'..I wouldn't go any larger than that, in my humble opinion


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

that kind of information is exactly what I'm looking for from you guys, so thanks.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I played around a bit more upstairs and I've decided I'm going to build the 110". All my research and calculations say this is a very good compromise as it allows me a good seating distance tolerance. 

Now my next step is to determine screen material or paint. I was going to go with standard blackout cloth, but some guys on avs cautioned me about that, due to the white ceiling/slant walls. 

So, now I'm looking at gray screen options. *My budget is a maximum of $200 for a DIY screen. * 

I searched last night and couldn't find a clear 'winner', in this regard. I thought going with Carl's ProGray would be good, but I can't find any real reviews other than a guy who had a horrible experience a few years ago which was a fluke according to Carl. Maybe that's still a viable option.

Bottom line: I'm just not sure what good options there are for gray screen material or paint. 

Anyone have suggestions on gray paint vs screen, that would be under $160 (I'm factoring in about $40 for hardware costs)?


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## Horrorfan33 (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm assuming you are going to get of that window?..I built both of my screen borders out of 1x4 and painted them a flat black, but a lot of people wrap them with a black felt material, but I think either way works great!!..Check out the DIY screen section of this forum for paint colors/mixes..You can see the frames I made for both of my set ups in my pictures to get an idea of what the 1x4's look like..The screen in my garage theater is 140" and my living room screen is 100"


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

yea, the window will be covered up with *something*. I just don't know what yet.

I'll check that section. I actually posted up a question there but didn't get many replies so I figured it'd be better to keep this thread going as if fits more with the progression of things in case someone like me comes along and it helps them out.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Since this is intended to be a build log, and a place where people can learn, I wanted to keep the lineage going here. But, instead of posting up my quest to determine which screen color/gain I need to use given my ceiling/slant wall issues in two separate threads, I'm just going to share the link to the discussion I have going:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...put-my-choice-screen-material.html#post656303

When I figure out the direction I'm going, I'll pick up here with the build again. 

Hopefully this will help others who may run in to the same issue.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Erin H said:


> yea, the window will be covered up with *something*. I just don't know what yet.
> 
> I'll check that section. I actually posted up a question there but didn't get many replies so I figured it'd be better to keep this thread going as if fits more with the progression of things in case someone like me comes along and it helps them out.


Well, I know that Mech is coaching hockey right now so that might explain the delay in a response to your question about paints - perhaps give it a bump as I am sure either Don or Mech are the best to answer that one...


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I picked up my post in that section. Currently waiting on a quote to have the ceiling and slant walls painted.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Painters are coming this morning to paint the ceiling and slant walls. 

I'll post up a before and after picture once I get home. 

Really excited!...


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Erin H said:


> Painters are coming this morning to paint the ceiling and slant walls.
> 
> I'll post up a before and after picture once I get home.
> 
> Really excited!...


Looking forward to seeing the pictures Erin!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Painters finished up a couple hours ago. My wife sent me the pictures below via text to give me an idea of how it looks 

I'm very happy with it. My wife said it looks very dark but goes well with the side walls. I'm looking forward to getting home and seeing it in person. I'll take a higher red photo of the room with the DSLR and post it up later. 

I'll take down some of the wall plates and AC vents and paint them brown or black to go with the dark theme as well. 

Picture looking toward the back of the room:





And a comparison of the light brown side wall vs the freshly painted brown slant wall/ceiling:


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

FWIW, the ceiling/slant walls paint job cost me $180 including materials. I thought that was a steal. 

I had two guys quote me on it and the other wanted $200+ materials which would have been about $240. 

Just letting you guys know in case someone is curious.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

That turned out really good Erin! And, for less than $200 even - that IS a steal!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Indeed. When he gave me that quote I didn't hesitate to tell him to do it. 

I didn't have time to break out the DSLR last night but I did snap a picture with my phone. I think it turned out great. And the whole room has that theater 'feel' to it that it didn't have before. 

Now I just have to start moving forward with the screen build. 


Here's the before:



Here's the after:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Wow - it really does darken the room up much better, doesn't it? Make sure to take some pictures of movies when you get it going - I would really like to see how that color handles the light refraction...


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Absolutely, man. 

I'm still trying to pick the material for the screen. Shouldn't be too hard now that I don't have to worry about the white ceiling and sides. 

I was shooting for having this thing completed by Christmas but it may not happen just due to budget. I've still got to purchase the screen material which isn't much but the PJ is going to be the big money purchase. 

I'm already building up an arsenal of amps for this room. . I bought a Crown XLS 1500 for the front mains. It puts out 300w per channel @ 8 ohm. Will probably pick up an XLS 1000 and bridge it for center and another one for the rear surrounds. I've got to work out the preamp concerns though so it'll be some time before I put any external amps to use other than the behringer ep2500 I'm using for subs. So, for now I'll power the 5 channels off the denon AVR and once I accrue the amps and preamp stage, I'll throw mad power at it all.


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## Horrorfan33 (Jun 11, 2013)

Wow, that's much better!!..Looks great :T


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## nezff (Jan 9, 2011)

nice room. Looks familiar. LOL

I just recently bought myself a projector also after a couple years of debating. I couldn't pass up the Panny 8000 deal PJ people ran on cyber Monday. Under $1900 shipped.

I plan on doing a false wall or going with a 92-100 screen. I can go wider if I do a false wall and put the speakers behind the screen.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Erin H said:


> Absolutely, man.
> 
> I'm still trying to pick the material for the screen. Shouldn't be too hard now that I don't have to worry about the white ceiling and sides.
> 
> ...


Amazing how long these projects can take, isn't it?!

I have an XLS1500 too - runs the mains in my living room system. Once I got the ground loop issue straightened out, that thing works like a champ!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

The problem I'm having with pro amps is how to feed them a hot signal. Standard pre outs don't seem to have enough juice for most of the pro amps I've used. I don't know if I need to go speaker level out via a converter box or external DSP as a pre amp (rane rpm88... Mmmmmmm ). 

There are a lot of reasons I'd like to keep my denon 2313. So I'd like to make that work. 

What are you feeding your crown with?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Erin H said:


> The problem I'm having with pro amps is how to feed them a hot signal. Standard pre outs don't seem to have enough juice for most of the pro amps I've used. I don't know if I need to go speaker level out via a converter box or external DSP as a pre amp (rane rpm88... Mmmmmmm ).
> 
> There are a lot of reasons I'd like to keep my denon 2313. So I'd like to make that work.
> 
> What are you feeding your crown with?


A Sherwood 972 - straight from the pre outs. Seems to work fine for me...


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Have you measured the crown output to see if it's making full power with the Sherwood? Just curious. I've found this not to be the case with most of the pro amps I've used. But, maybe the crown makes rated power with less input voltage. I think I read it needed 1.8v to do so, and I'm assuming that's RMS.


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

Erin H said:


> yea, the window will be covered up with *something*. I just don't know what yet.


Your room looks great so far - very familiar shape. You'll really appreciate the darker paint - nice color too. Building code forced me to include a window in the center of my front wall. After the inspection, I stapled acoustic foam in place. Then, I screwed a 1x2 frame to the wall and nailed up a rug. It doesn't look bad at all and the rug settled my indecision about wall color.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Erin H said:


> Have you measured the crown output to see if it's making full power with the Sherwood? Just curious. I've found this not to be the case with most of the pro amps I've used. But, maybe the crown makes rated power with less input voltage. I think I read it needed 1.8v to do so, and I'm assuming that's RMS.


I have not - with so many projects going on, I have not had a chance to just sit and tinker....


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I know what you mean.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

That looks much better..A very nice blend of darker colours..Good job! :T


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Prof. said:


> That looks much better..A very nice blend of darker colours..Good job! :T


Thanks. I am really happy with it. My wife likes it which is a big benefit as well. Lol. 


I know I've mentioned my wiring but wanted to throw a couple pictures in here just to go with that. I wired up the front LCR with 4-conductor 12 gauge wiring. I did this for the purpose of being a bit future proof (bi amp or active processing). In hindsight, I now wish I had gone with 3 pairs of conductor for LF should I actually go through with a baffle wall later down the road but it's not a huge deal since I have my sub wiring on adjacent walls. 








You'll see my one complain about these wall plates above. If you tighten down the middle piece that contains the speaker connectors, it tends to bow in. It's not a huge issue... More like a nitpick that I'd address since it shows up so clearly in pictures.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm currently at the point of shopping pre/pro's and going with external amplification. I've got a Crown XLS1500 on the way. Also have QSC PLX1202 I use for Klippel testing. My current mindset has me ordering Crowns XLS Drive Core's for all power. The XLS1500 on the front mains, an XLS1000 for center bridged and another XLS1000 for rear surrounds. The XLS1000 has a noise floor issue according to a couple reviews but in HT mode, it's not of serious concern and the XLS1500 would be the only thing on during music. Then I need a good pre/pro (there are tons of options and I've yet to decide on anything yet). I already have the Denon 2313ci but have it for sale here for $500 (if anyone is interested... ahem!). I need a receiver with pre-outs such as the 3313ci or step up to Emo (don't much care for the UMC-200 though the cost is hard to deny), Sherbourne (7303, IIRC, is sweet), Integra, etc, etc. , I'm even considering getting a Rane RPM88 or other good DSP with at least 6 channel input, going in to that via speaker level in with the 2313ci and doing my own processing. Might be easier and it certainly would have everything I already want (airplay, iphone/ipad app, 2nd powered zone).

The options I have are overwhelming at times. 
There's cheap, to expensive and everywhere in between. I just have to find something that does what I want at the price I can afford. New or used. Suffice it to say, I'm not done yet. And I probably won't be anytime soon, even though I was pushing hard for a Christmas completion... my change to external amplification and a possible engine rebuild for my wife's car has extended that. Though, I'm having fun with this. Just not having fun with the hours I'm having to work over time to fund this room. 

I definitely appreciate the feedback I've gotten here. I know the goal has been shifting a bit but that's just kind of the way I am. If anyone here knows me from car audio forums, they know my car was a work in progress for years. Now that I've gotten that nailed down, I'm taking and applying my ADD to home audio. I hope to be firing up the PJ by early Spring. I just have to keep working OT and find some good deals to make that happen. :/


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

After some back and forth, I wound up buying an Onkyo TX-NR818 this morning. I really only wanted something with pre-amp outputs; I didn't necessarily care to upgrade video processing, audio processing, etc. But, the 818 has XT32 (but no subEQ, which is fine because I'll be using a separate DSP for subs anyway). It doesn't have airPlay but I'll be using an appleTV for that purpose. 

I'm hopeful the preamp voltage is enough to drive the Crown amps without issue, given those are rated to make spec'd power with 1.4vRMS. The Onkyo site has the max output rated at 4v (don't recall the sensitivity), which is about 2.8vRMS. That gives me hope it's not an issue. I plan to measure the pre-out voltage with a scope once I get it in, so I'll post up my findings on that.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

*knocks on the mic*... is anyone there? 

I know this is a build thread, but I'm wondering if I should take some of the fluff out of this thread just so it's reads a bit better. 

At any rate, I just wanted to update with some cool and also sad news.
The sad news first: I was bidding on an Integra DHC-80.2 last night on eBay and got beat out by $5. Argh!!!!!! Such is life.

The good news: I managed to pick up a Rane RPM88 for a really good price last night on eBay as well. I'm planning on using it to fine tune the setup. I've wanted to use one of these for years but couldn't justify the cost, so when I saw it pop up BIN, I didn't think twice. 

Also, I priced out some A/V racks and quickly decided against buying pre-fab. I made a trip to lowe's yesterday and picked up a few materials to build my own. The plan is to make a wall-mounted rack, 3ft high, that swings out to allow me to swap components/cabling as needed without hassle. I figure I'll be in the ballpark of about $50-75 on materials which is substantially less than the $250-350 price for smaller racks from Middle Atlantic or the like. It won't look quite as pretty, I'm sure, but it'll be functional. 

That's it. Thanks for paying attention.


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## eyekode (Jan 19, 2008)

I built a custom rack for my closet. Cost about 70$ in supplies and looks awesome. But when I got about 75% done I found a middle Atlantic rack for 75$ with lots of shelves! Couldn't resist so now all my gear is in the rack and movies etc are on my custom built cabinet .


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

go figure, right?  at least you are happy with the end result. 


I got my NR818 in today. Of course, no audyssey mic. Luckily, I don't need that today. I called Crutchfield and they're sending me one out asap.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

After searching for a used equipment rack without much luck (found a few locally but the just won't work), I've decided to forge ahead with building my own. I can do it the way I want and for under $75. 

The goal is to have this wall mounted with a swing out design to access the rear panel easily. At the least, I'll put rollers on it. I've got a lot of 2x4's I've salvaged from construction sites and picked up some angled perforated steel from lowes to act as the rack rails. 

Here's a teaser photo...


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey Erin - mic is working but it took a while for the signal to reach me here in WI...  Blame the season and my active sports kids!

Too bad on the Integra - that would have been a great pickup! - but the Rane was a good consolation prize. 

I am all for building your own rack - saves money for equipment! Seriously though, I am sure you will probably be able to do something that works much better for your application than a purchased one might. I have been finding that buying something comes with a settling with some of the units shortcomings mindset. Building your own allows you to address those and customize it to your tastes.

Looking forward to seeing the end result!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

The NR818 pre-outs put out some serious juice, but it has to be going to full tilt. I measured 3.5vRMS on each pre-out. No clipping. For amplifier power, I could use the Onkyo internal amp but nahhhhhh.... I ordered up a set of Crown XLS1500 amps which should be here tomorrow.  They will power the front mains and I'll use one channel for the center. I plan to order a third for the rear surrounds. 


Now to the fun stuff....
I got the rane in and the condition is what I expected. The fan _may _need to be replaced because it has a tendency to bog down every 10 minutes or so. Upon startup, it also makes the bad bearings sound I used to hate when I worked at the bike shop (seriously, opening up hubs and reassembling caged bearings was such a pain). 

I had a bit of trouble getting it set up and a friend guided me a bit through it. Ultimately, I found that windows 7 has a bit of a trick to it that was covered in an FAQ on the Rane site. Basically, don't set the IP address via TCIP; just go with automatic. Also, I had to disable any other network adapter (my VNC and wireless networks). once I did this, I was in. Loaded the software up, prompted for a FW update, did that, and I'm rockin'. 

I don't expect I'll have a whole lot of need for DSP with Audyssey XT32, especially higher in frequency as I move beyond the Schroeder frequency. But it'll be my final DSP stop before the amps; allowing me all the control I need globally but especially low frequency response such as modes and any needed level & time delay matching for multiple subs. It will also act as a pretty serious unbalanced-to-balanced converter between the Onkyo and the Crown amps.  It's specs are higher than any of the other components in the chain, so I have no worries about it degrading the signal coming out of the Onkyo (or any other piece I feed in to it). The cool thing I forgot about is that I can also access it wirelessly when it's connected to my bridge. Which means I can tune from any seat in the house (literally) without having to be wired to it.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

DIY A/V rack is done. Grand total was about $60, compared to about $400+. Materials used was some angled, perforated 14gauge steel, 4 casters (so I can roll it away from the wall for gear swaps) and some nails/bolts. The 2x4's all came from a dumpster when they were building a house down the street. Some were much worse than others, but luckily I had enough good ones that I could have a "good side". 

some photos...





top added.





spray painted... and it looked horrible. 2 cans in I punted and went to pick up some legitimate paint.







painted


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Nice! Great idea too. Are you going to paint some panels to fill the gaps between the gear once you get it all loaded up?


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

I'm not sure. that's more $$$ and the reason I built my own was to save money. I just need it to be functional more than anything since it's going to be in a closet. though, I have really considered getting some LED strips to accent the thing. then I remind myself there's no need for it and it's a waste of money. but, still...  

I didn't mention it, but just in case someone is curious, I do plan to have support for the equipment. The middle 2x4's will be where the support brackets are located.


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Say thats a nice rack you got there, subscribed as I can't wait to see the finished product plus get ideas. As I myself are in the design stage.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Got two of my amps in. Took them for a test run on the onkyo 818. She's alive!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Been a while since I've updated this. I've been working a LOT of hours with OT that past few months. In that time, I've had some change of plans with my HT. 

First off, I sold my Kef R500 towers. I'm building my own set of towers that will be a fully active 3-way setup consisting of the following gear:

Kef R-Series concentric mid/tweeter 
Scanspeak 26w/8867T 10” woofer
Rane RPM26z for processing (crossover and EQ)
Crown DriveCore XLS1500 for tweeters (525w x2 @ 4ohm)
Crown XLS2000 for mids (650w x2 @ 4ohm)
Crown XLS2500 for woofers (775w x2 @ 4ohm)

Total power overkill, I know, but I had a couple already and I see no downside to using them. Talk about headroom… sheesh! 

All said and done, I'll have about $2k in this build but this setup will rival speakers 5x+ it's price. I'm going for full on epic. 

Here are a few pictures of the gear and some enclosure pieces:








Secondly, I sold my Dayton Ultimax 15's. I didn't have any real issues with them. I just didn't care for them as much as I had hoped. The combination of the rather large size and the low f3 in the mid-30's made me look at other options. DIY was out as I am already too busy trying to finish the towers mentioned above. I wound up getting a too-good-to-be-true deal on a pair of JL Audio E112 subwooers so I sprung for those. Buying the pair made me dip in to my projector funds so I'll be delayed yet again with getting this HT off the ground. But, I'd rather buy the pieces I want now rather than second guess my choices later. 


I returned the Onkyo because I simply didn't care for it. What I'll be doing now is running my Oppo BDP-103 straight in to the Rane DSPs shown above. The front 2 channels will go in to the Rane RPM26z and then to the Crowns for the active 3-way fronts. The remaining channels will go in to the Rane RPM88 and out to some more Crown amps (XLS1500 for center bi-amped and another XLS1500 for rear L/R). I plan to control everything via the Oppo Remote app.

I'll update this thread as I make some progress.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for the update Erin!

Just think - with all that OT, more moola for gearz!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Indeed. Actually, the reason for the OT has primarily been to fund my dog's upcoming TPLO surgery ($2500). That's not at all chump change. So I've been working as much as I can to help cover that. 

I'm pretty excited at the direction this build has gone. Though, it's completely different from how I started. Initially, it was intended to be a simple receiver based HT. But as I went through some gear, I realized that not doing it the way I really wanted to was going to cost me more money in the long run. Once this room is completed, I'm looking forward to firing up a good Disney movie and enjoying it with the family. And I'm really looking forward to this being a music haven for me to go relax and be immersed in sound. I've already ordered up a couple SACDs. Very much looking forward to hearing them. But I have to keep being patient. 

I definitely see this HT as being one that will rival anything sound wise I could ever hope for. The kef coincident is by far the best driver I've used to date and that scan woofer will anchor down the low end to about 60hz. With all the power on tap, running active, the distortion level for the bandpass the drivers will play within is measured at 0.5%. That's superb. Being able to control and tailor the crossovers and EQ with the Rane's to any degree I need will permit for the kind of response curves and tailoring Audyssey won't get me. In the words of Mama Odie (Princess and the Frog), this is gonna be gooooooood.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

One of two e112 subs showed up today. Second should be here Monday. 

Pardon the low quality phone pictures.



















Variable phase knob FTW!


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Erin H said:


> Indeed. Actually, the reason for the OT has primarily been to fund my dog's upcoming TPLO surgery ($2500). That's not at all chump change. So I've been working as much as I can to help cover that.
> 
> I'm pretty excited at the direction this build has gone. Though, it's completely different from how I started. Initially, it was intended to be a simple receiver based HT. But as I went through some gear, I realized that not doing it the way I really wanted to was going to cost me more money in the long run. Once this room is completed, I'm looking forward to firing up a good Disney movie and enjoying it with the family. And I'm really looking forward to this being a music haven for me to go relax and be immersed in sound. I've already ordered up a couple SACDs. Very much looking forward to hearing them. But I have to keep being patient.
> 
> I definitely see this HT as being one that will rival anything sound wise I could ever hope for. The kef coincident is by far the best driver I've used to date and that scan woofer will anchor down the low end to about 60hz. With all the power on tap, running active, the distortion level for the bandpass the drivers will play within is measured at 0.5%. That's superb. Being able to control and tailor the crossovers and EQ with the Rane's to any degree I need will permit for the kind of response curves and tailoring Audyssey won't get me. In the words of Mama Odie (Princess and the Frog), this is gonna be gooooooood.


Sorry to hear about your dog... We just spent over $12k on our dog Zulu when he had a kidney failure. Thankfully we had a lot of donations that helped us out with the bills. :T 

As far as your Home Theater... Welcome to the upgrade life. It seems whenever I go and start something small it snowballs into something much bigger. At least with the Home Theater it will be something you and your family will enjoy for years to come. :T:T


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Some heavy subs.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Nice Erin - I love jl!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Thanks.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Sorry to hear about the upcoming surgery - hope all goes well. 

Congrats on the new additions to your family! 

As an aside, what SACD's did you get and where are you getting them from?


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Grabbed a couple off eBay and some off Amazon. I picked up Dire Straits' Brothers in Arms, Norah Jones' The Fall, Michael Jackson's Thriller, and Elton John's Madman Across The Water.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Second sub came in today. 











Getting close to finishing up the speaker enclosures. Test fitting below. Cutting the internal braces tomorrow. Dados are a big help. Spent more time cutting them out but glad I did.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looking good Erin!

I agree on the dados - I fully intend to cut them all when I build my movie shelving. Just makes the whole assembly cleaner and more sturdy.


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Erin H said:


> Been a while since I've updated this. I've been working a LOT of hours with OT that past few months. In that time, I've had some change of plans with my HT.
> 
> First off, I sold my Kef R500 towers. I'm building my own set of towers that will be a fully active 3-way setup consisting of the following gear:
> 
> ...


So you are using the Oppo as a pre-amp.....nice:T


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

well, I figure it's about time for an update. I finally completed the build of my towers. Logged the progress on the parts express forum so I'll spare you guys all the details but have a link below if you'd like to explore the build and methods. 


some of this is copy/pasted from another forum I frequent so forgive the wording in the subsequent posts, but it saves me from really have to type everything up anew. 




In a somewhat rash move, I pulled the trigger on the projector and screen. Then I went selling a ton of stuff to try to recoup the money so my wife wouldn't kill me. 

I'm now almost finished with the room. Speakers are built, amp rack is built, everything is wired up and making music. I still have some things here and there to do. Obviously the screen still needs to be mounted to the wall (110" fixed screen). I need to add acoustic panels here and there. Still need to configure the Rane DSPs and get the sound system EQ'd and all that jazz. etc, etc, etc. But, I can do all that as I go. The important part is that I've finally got all the major pieces to the puzzle. I am pscyched! 

My 3.5 yo has requested Beauty and the Beast as our first movie. I'm looking forward to watching some "daddy" movies with some b-b-b-b-b-b-bass. 

Just wanted to share my excitement. I know there are many guys here who have some killer setups. Glad I'm able to finally join in the ranks of a fellow HT dude. 


Just in case anyone cares, here's the specifics:

Room size: Approx 17x26x8 with 5ft knee-walls.
Source: Oppo BDP-103 (feeds directly in to Rane DSPs). AppleTV or DirecTV feed in to the HDMI input as a 2nd source.
Projector: Epson 8350 (refurb)
Screen: Visual Apex 110" (got a good package deal)
Front L/R Speakers: 3-way Active with Kef concentric and Scan 10" powered off Crown amps and processed with Rane RPM26Z
Additional Processing: Rane RPM88 to process sides, center, and subs
Center: Kef R200c
Surrounds: Kef Q100 on wall-mounts
Subs: JL Audio E112
Amps:

Front Mains: Crown DriveCore XLS2500 (midbass), XLS2000 (midrange), XLS1500 (tweeters)
Center channel: Crown XLS1500, bi-amped
Sides: Crown XLS1500
Subs: Built-in


Here's a couple pictures taken with the cell phone. 

Speakers are in place and wired up with the rack back in the closet. 





















Got the PJ mounted. Didn't have time to assemble the screen but I couldn't resist throwing the image on the wall just to see what it would be like. Hope to have the screen up by Friday for our first movie night.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

FWIW, I have this picture in the speaker build thread but here's the amp rack (rpm88 at the bottom isn't shown here):



That's about 5400wrms (@ 4 ohm) for the main 5 speakers. the subs have their own amps built in.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Screen is up! (No pun intended)

Need to calibrate the PJ but we are really excited about the picture out of the box. 

Tomorrow night will be our first movie night. Woot woot!





















Had to throw in The Dark Knight to make sure the subs worked. 












--------


To black out the window in a pinch I used some black drop plastic. Looks ugly but it gets the job done. 











I went upstairs this morning to see how the room looked this morning and it was pitch black. Sweet! 


Had to take one last picture before heading off to work...


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

First official movie night!





















And this Eagles Live blu ray is KILLER in surround!


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

Beauty & the Beast pictures... and with the GOOD camera instead of my cell phone... FINALLY! 

First off, we have 6 can lights total upstairs. Staggered evenly in the room. I removed the front two lights because they washed out the screen when on. The remaining four lights can be left on and dimmed about halfway while providing excellent picture and plenty of light to eat snacks with. And then I can dim them all the way down for 'intense' movie watching. 

lights off:







then with the lights on but dimmed....







removing the front two lights made a large difference in usability with lights on. really very happy with how the room turned out in this regard.


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## Erin H (Aug 26, 2009)

and as of last night, that's where this room sits.

as I stated in an above post I still have a list of things to complete which consist of but are certainly not limited to:

Painting my DIY towers
Finalizing the DIY towers' crossover section. This is going to be a process, for sure. But with the DSP & active capability I have, it'll make life easier than building new passive crossovers.
Acoustic Treatments (will have to nail down speaker positions first)
DSP time! EQ, time alignment, levels, etc, etc, etc. It may sound like a chore, but this is where the magic is and I'm actually looking forward to this process in some regards. 
Calibrate the PJ. I did an initial cal but have to really get down in to the dirt to flesh out colors and also set up a couple memory settings.


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