# Audyssey problems in Onkyo 805...



## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

HMMM....

Can anyone with this reveiver help me out?

I ran the Audyssey deal and I have a few concerns...

First thing I noticed was that it cut the levels of all the speakers way down. Between -12 and -6dB. I played a couple tracks just to make sure it was still going to be loud. It was, so I just left it.

Second thing I noticed was the most disturbing. I switched between the Audyssey EQ settings and FLAT and apparently the auto eq really likes the sound of cardboard boxes. I'd like to fiddle with the manual EQ, but I would rather the system do it because its resolution is much better. 

Is the only test it does just that little pulse? That's all I've found, but IIRC, the YPAO on my old mans Yamaha made a bunch of noises.

Other than the disappointment of the Audyssey system, I'm liking the unit so far, with some reservations. I don't know if it has anything to do with the extra 20 watts, but there seems to be a little more impact to music, even while bypassing the huge bump in mid bass the Audyssey created. I don't think music is really it's strongsuit. It just doesn't sound quite right. I'm sure if I get around to manually setting the EQ, it could have that "sweetness" i'm used to, but I'd like to get that in Pure Direct.

We'll see....


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

I really need to get the right stuff together to run REW. Then at least I could see if it's me or the EQ.

Even if it were more "accurate", I still don't like the way it sounds. I guess that's just the way it shakes out for me. I'm just going to leave it off until I treat my room better. Then I'll run it again and see what happens.

In the meantime, I'd ike to hear others' thoughts. Has anyone else had Audyssey make their system sound worse?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

When you set up the mic did you use a tripod? it must be placed at ear level on the seat where you sit in the room. Audyssey should improve the sound if it did not you did something wrong. The test must also be done in complete silence to get the best results.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Check on both counts. I don't have a tripod, but I put the mic on the backrest of my chair. I even moved the chair a little bit to put the mic exactly where my ugly mug would be.

I also put the dog outside and shut off my phone to make sure no noises would interfere. 

I wish I did something obviously wrong, but it doesn't seem there's a lot to mess up. It doesn't look like the mic is directional, and it was level and not shrouded by anything.

What else could I have messed up? Hopefully it was my fault, I want to get the most of my investment.


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

Can you post the resulting Audyssey setup?

Also, did you do something special when starting Audyssey? How did you setup the process?


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

Don't worry about the channel levels as long as the channels sound balanced...those are just relative numbers.

Did you check the crossover and distance settings to make sure they were reasonable? Onkyo chose an "unusual" implementation for the auto setup of crossovers...any main speaker that measures -3dB below 80hz, even 79hz, will be set to "large". Likewise, some weird room anomally could have left you with a super high crossover setting even if your mains are capable of going much lower.

How many positions did you measure? The 805 allows up to 8, I believe, but I would personally use as few as possible to only cover the likely listening positions. The more positions, the more averaging Audyssey has to apply versus optimizing for one location. If there's a minimum and you're the primary listener (bedroom, right), then just measure the same spot each time.

-Brent


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

yourgrandma said:


> Check on both counts. I don't have a tripod, but I put the mic on the backrest of my chair. I even moved the chair a little bit to put the mic exactly where my ugly mug would be.
> 
> What else could I have messed up? Hopefully it was my fault, I want to get the most of my investment.


When you say you put the mic on the back rest of the chair is the chair padded like a sofa? this will dramatically change how the mic hears frequencies it must be placed forward and a little bit higher than the back of the chair to work properly.

EDIT: I should also add that placing the mic on a chair is not a good idea as the vibrations from the chair will transmit into the mic causing undesirable results. A cheep camera tripod will cost you less than $8 I recommend getting one.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Jerome- I just plugged in the mic and it automatically brings up the menu. I Slapped the mic on the chair and let er rip...

Brent- I double checked the settings, and most of them were pretty good. Mains were set to fullrange, center crossed at 70hz(I changed it to 80, I prefer even higher, but 80 usually worked alright before), surrounds crossed at 80, rear surrounds crossed over at 150hz (pretty high considering they use the same drivers as the surrouds and center, and IMO have the best bass capabilities of all my small speakers).

The distances were all right on except the sub was about 2X what it should be, but I wonder if having it there could help with phasing and help get rid of some of my bass cancellation...

Tony- I can't rule out your theory about the chair messing it up, but I would imagine it would reinforce the midbass spectrum, but thats just my conjecture. I'll try it with a tripod. We'll see what i come up with using a tripod.

Thanks guys, hopefully I can get some better results...


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

What kind of speakers, what kind of room, what is the placement....?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

yourgrandma said:


> The distances were all right on except the sub was about 2X what it should be, but I wonder if having it there could help with phasing and help get rid of some of my bass cancellation...


This is fairly normal, Audyssey will sometimes do that and it gives good results. It has been documented and is ok for it to do.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Leonard-

Heres a drawing of the layout. 









It's my bedroom as well as my HT and listening room. 

Speakers are as follows: All Definitive Technology, Pro Tower 400 in front (6-1/2" mid, dual 6-1/2" sub, 125w powered subs), Center is a PCC2 with dual 5-1/4" mids, the surrounds are BP2x's, bipolars with two 5-1/4" mids, the rears are PM 100's with the same mids as the center and side surrounds.

So far, my treatments are minimal, but I'm woking on that presently. I'm moving some of my foam panels around to see if I can help the situation.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Did you just do one test? On my 2808ci I did just one and didn't like the way it turned out. I did three and I still didn't like it. I did all eight and I think it turned out a lot better. I've also heard that you can't mess with the Audyssey settings and manual EQ is only parametric and doesn't include any of the time domain settings Audyssey does.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

I've done the setup process a few times now. I only used three tests each time, though. I only have one seat, so I tried leaving the mic in the same spot, then I moved it around just a little bit. I'll try all eight tomorrow, after all, what harm could it do?

Unfortunately you are right, there isn't even a way to look at how the Audyssey changes the FR. It'd be really cool if you could give it a certain general "taste" and it would smooth the response to fit your taste. For example, if you prefer a loudness type curve, it would give it that slope, but in a nice smooth fashion.

I'll post back tomorrow after more experimenting. Hopefully with some changes, I'll make some improvement...


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I agree with Tony, mic placement may be your first issue. Nothing unusual about the system that should confuse the processing, except the bipole surrounds, but that should not be that big of an issue.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

I used a tripod and got the exact same result. Maybe I just have weird taste in sound. It sounds bloated and ****** to me, but it would seem that the system finds it more accurate.

I should really figure out what I need to do to get rew working for me. I have a soundcard with no analog ins or outs.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm not sure but I think that Audyssey might take the levels down to make the 0dB on the receiver (volume) become true to reference level (THX level in the 805's case I bet). I have Klipsch RB81 speakers which have a sensitivity of 97dB. My RC62 center is 98dB. My Denon put them all down and the center down 2dB more than the fronts. 

It didn't really make sense before to put all the speaker levels down. You'd think that you would want one or more at zero and move the others up or down to compensate. To make them reference level at 0dB actually makes sense.

The sound that Audyssey uses gives a better picture to the processor about the room and the speaker. I could hear major slap echoes from my right surround which is in a corner. I couldn't hear that on my 3805's auto eq's pink noise generator.

Like I stated in my earlier post, the more positions you test for the better the result. Try doing 8 even if you have less seating positions. Just move the mic around in the general listening area. Make sure the first measurement is in the primary seating position at ear height where your head would be. Then do the other seating positions and then maybe move the mic forward a foot or so and repeat. More data gives the processor a better picture of your room.


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## Guest (Feb 8, 2008)

What ever happened to getting an spl meter and setting things up the right way ?
I use my avr's ypao but I Always do the final tweaking with my trusty spl meter , and since they are so inexpensive it's a shame not to have 1.
The meter in the first link is the same exact one that radioshack used to carry.:nerd:


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/128211.html

http://www.audiophilia.com/hardware/spl.htm

http://www.techlore.com/article/10037/;jsessionid=1EB44AF24FE014D8DE008AB481B8A36F


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

I have a radio shack digital spl meter, I don't think the utility of the meter encompasses all the things Audyssey is supposed to do, though. I used the meter to check the levels and of course, they were right on.

Since nobody will be home till at least 6, I'm going to try taking 8 measurements and see if that makes a difference. I still don't know if it's just me or the EQ. Probably just me, but I swear it sounds totally wrong.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Make sure too that your furnace fan is off. The air exchanger can cause issues in the low frequency area. You want the room to be as quiet as possible. Make sure that you are standing out of the way also.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

And make sure that the calibration mic is pointing straight up.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

It's funny you should mention noise. I really hadn't considered how the TV could throw it off. I turned it off before the fourth measurement. Everything else is quiet.

I have a theory outside of the TV buzz. Since I have pretty bad bass issues (Like total cancellation), I wonder if it's just trying to compensate. However, it seems to kill the low end and bring up the upper midbass.

I did 8 measurements, all within my normal seating area and it did seem to help a little, but it still sounds much better with the EQ turned off. I suppose just for the sake of being thorough, I'll do 8 more with the TV off the whole time. 

I'm getting sick of that test tone, though, and exiting the room in silence is exceedingly difficult.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I found that my bass disappeared also. I just turned it up slightly, from the subwoofer itself, to my liking. When you do the tests the sub should set at normal volume level. On my RW12d I set it to 0dB increase. Not sure if that is the ideal setting but it worked for me. I notched it up to +3dB after the Audyssey calibration and liked the sound much better.


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

yourgrandma said:


> I'm getting sick of that test tone, though, and exiting the room in silence is exceedingly difficult.


Can't you use the remote control? I use to stand at the door, start the calibration process and lock the door as fast as I can before it starts.

A bit boring to do it 8 times but it works better than standing/laying in the room.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

The problem was trying to leave quietly. I figured it out the last couple times, but the hinge on the door squeeks right as it closes, so it's challenging:sneeky:.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

So guess what I did...


I fiddled with the tone controls (something I've always frowned upon) and actually listened for a while with the Adyssey EQ on. I gave it a few straight minutes and then switched it off. Now my opinion has changed. It seems too harsh with it off.

So either my ears changed or I was just not giving it enough of a shot.

Sounds pretty good now. I'm listening to cellos, so if the midrange was too warm, I'd really notice, and it sounds quite nice. I'm pretty happy with how it sounds right now.


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## Ayreonaut (Apr 26, 2006)

yourgrandma said:


> First thing I noticed was that it cut the levels of all the speakers way down. Between -12 and -6dB. I played a couple tracks just to make sure it was still going to be loud. It was, so I just left it.


-12 dB is probably the lower limit. Unless you have crazy efficient speakers, something isn't right.


yourgrandma said:


> Second thing I noticed was the most disturbing. I switched between the Audyssey EQ settings and FLAT and apparently the auto eq really likes the sound of cardboard boxes.


What do you mean about cardboard? It sounds cardboardy?


yourgrandma said:


> Is the only test it does just that little pulse?


Yes, those pulses are quick frequency sweeps.

I just bought and set up a Denon AVR-888 (2308CI) with MultEQ. I used a short tripod on the seat cushions, to mitigate the transfer of floor vibrations. I measured six positions (the maximum on mine). I ran auto set up, but the first results set the subwoofer to +12 (max) and the mains to -11. Something was obviously wrong, so I went to manual set up, zeroed the levels, played the test noise, and adjusted the subwoofer amp's gain to match the mains.

I ran auto set up again. This time, the mains were set to 0 and the sub was set to +10.5. Better, but the whole system was too loud. So I went to manual set up again and checked the levels with test noise and SPL meter. The speakers were all 5.5 dB above reference. So I adjusted everything down -5.5 dB. Mains ended up at -5.5 dB and the sub ended up at +5 dB.

It sounds fantastic. I had no idea how much better my system could sound. I left my BFD in the signal path, and I'm not sure how Audyssey and the BFD are interacting. Maybe some day I'll haul out the PC use REW to compare my BFD efforts, the Audyssey efforts, and the combined efforts.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Well, since you replied, I guess I'll update my adventure by recinding my comments about it sounding better. I was switching listening modes. Stereo to direct. If I leave it in stereo and switch the EQ on and off, no matter what I do to the tone controls, the eq cranks up the midrange and kills both the treb and bass. Yes, Naut, it sounds cardboardy. 

I'm trying to figure out what the problem is. It's one of four things: 
1. My room is so bad, the eq goes crazy.
2. There is something wrong with the receiver.
3. My speakers suck.
4. I have bad taste in sound.

I wish I could run rew, but my computer goes into convultions if I try to disable my soundcard (no analog connections), so the only alternative is to find a USB card and use someone's lappy top.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Hey Yourgrandma, if it's any consolation I've never had any luck with the auto-eq results in any receiver I've heard them in. I've always had the same impressions that you have. I don't know if I'm just used to a less accurate sound or if the end result really is bad. Maybe you and I have just never heard the system work in a setting where it can do it's best??? There is a 5th possibility, all 4 of the things on your list are false and your system is to a point where the eq can do no more...


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Well, at least I'm not alone. All I hear is how great it is and how much of an improvement it was, but I can't get it to do anything good. I would thing it would help plenty, as my room sounds like poop, but it may just be too bad and just throwing the system off.

Eh, who knows...


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

There's a thread on AVS in which the CTO of Audyssey participates. It contains lots of useful information which may help you get effective results from your system.

Kal


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

TRIUMPH!!!!!!

I have finally gotten a positive result from Ausyssey. 

I moved my speakers out from the front wall another 6" and in about three. I took my center out of the cabinet and ran the setup with the TV off. The high end cut is no where near as pronounced. It sounds a lot better now.

Just thought I'd share. I'm pretty happy about this. I put on so midrange torture music and was greeted with a smooth warmth, not a honky muffled mess.


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## rudirudi (Mar 10, 2009)

yourgrandma,

I just bought an 805 from craigslist recently. Appeared that it does not have the audyssey mic. Would you mind if I borrow yours (I will pay all your shipping, postage) and will return it asap?

Thanks a lot
Rudi


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Rudi,

Hopefully you got what you needed at some point. I took a hiatus and only now saw your post. If its any consolation, I sold a receiver without the remote and found the remote a year later. I'm trying to get a hold of the buyer with no luck.


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Here are some very useful links:

1. Audyssey Setup Guide
@ http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

2. Audyssey FAQ
@ http://www.audyssey.com/faq/index.html

3. Top 10 Onkyo Receiver Setup Mistakes
@ http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=949414

* Should be very helpful. :yes:


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