# home theater room problem



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

hello,

I am forced to change room and now building small home theater room and i have problems with my equipment placements because of doors.
Can anyone give some suggestions?

My gear is:
denon avr 4520
amphion one18x5
svs pb13-ultra
epson video projector and 80" screen

picture for room size and doors etc.


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Everyone knows that you move the doors when you have placement problems! Just kidding :R
Assuming WC stands for "Water Closet" over in Europe (bathroom over here in USA), there's not much chance of boarding it up, is there?! This is just me, but I would set the system up to play into the short dimension. That means the speakers would be positioned on the long wall with the window. I think that affords the best symmetry for good sound stage and imaging (SS&I). Oh, but wait... you have a screen and projector. Again this is just me. Others may have better ideas. I would black-out the window and install the screen over it. But you may not be allowed to do that.


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

blackening that window isn't problem. Those door is quite hard to move. So it might be only choice to use that window wall to speakers, only problem is that couch go quite close to back wall.

What kind of absorption i need to use that rear wall if couch is close of that ?

Is there problems with room modes when i use long wall setup?


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

You don't have many options in a room that small. You can play into the short dimension and have the seating against the rear wall, or play into the long dimension and have limited seating away from the rear wall. Before we discuss room modes and absorption, maybe we should talk about speakers. Did you already buy them? What kind are they? 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Yep i got speakers and other gear allready used those in my old room. 
Here is link for speakers. 
http://www.amphion.fi/en/create/products/one18/


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Very nice bookshelf studio monitors! Sorry I didn't read your intro better.
The way I see it, you have three options for the mains:
Behind acoustically-transparent screen (preferred)
Stand mount (acceptable)
Wall mount (last resort)

Stand-mounting gives you more speaker positioning choices, which may be important if you listen to a lot of music. There's a good tutorial on positioning speakers for sound stage and imaging here. But before placing the speakers and LP, we should define your listening habits and preferences:
How many people will watch TV at the same time?
How many of them care about good sound?
How much will the system be used for movies and how much for music? 
If music... Do you listen just for fun while doing something else, or do you listen seriously while doing nothing else?


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

2-3 person watching same time. Something like 60-70% movies. Downstair we have 2xgenelec and sub for music what we use while doing something else. When listening upstair, i just listen music and not doing anything else.


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

So music is important in your 3-person HT, which is mostly used for movies. According to Wikipedia, the best viewing angle and distance is from (Diag x 1.2) minimum to (Diag x 2.5) maximum. Plugging in your 80" screen measurement gives 8.0 to 16.7 feet. So there should be no problem playing into the short dimension with seating all the way against the rear wall. But that's not the best spot for good sound; especially bass, which is louder there. Surround sound will suffer, too, because of mounting limitations. Good surround sound requires the speakers be mounted slightly above and behind the LP. My HT sound quality (SQ) improved a lot when I moved my chair away from the wall and moved my surrounds from above the LP to the sides.

onder: 
If the WC door and main door open as shown below, then that may be a better choice for the front wall (screen and L/C/R speakers). Otherwise, the doors may hit the speakers and knock them off their stands. 
The down side of that arrangement (playing into the long dimension) is whether or not you can squeeze in seating for three. There's also the problem of an offset (non-centered) screen.


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

RaaSERI said:


> What kind of absorption i need to use that rear wall if couch is close of that ?


You'll need high-to-mid frequency acoustic panels for reflections off the back wall.



RaaSERI said:


> Is there problems with room modes when i use long wall setup?


Yes. But the room modes are caused by the room's dimensions and cannot be changed. Peaks and nulls will still exist in the same places they did before, regardless of setup.


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

those doors open just another way what picture show. so its problem with those doors. another wall doors isn't used too often but there is problem with subwoofer placement with that setup.

Maybe i just need put screen and speakers to long wall and put sofa about 8-9 feet away from screen so there is that 1-2feet gap behind sofa. 

quite hard room to do anything, but its only room to use atm.


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Don't give up yet! Someone else might still have an idea or two... I am not an expert.
So you don't like the idea of putting the couch on the long wall. Could try a temporary setup to hear how it sounds/measures? Your AVR has advanced Audyssey MultEQ XT32 room correction, so it should be able to compensate for 'poor' surround speaker placement. Most material is played through the L/C/R and sub. The surrounds are mostly used for ambient 'fill' so you won't even notice their 'poor' placement. Of course, you already know that surround locations are more important to create credible 'effects' like jets whizzing by. Only you can decide how important that is to you. 

Another consideration I hadn't thought of yet: Couch on long wall means much less space for expansion to 7.x and higher. So your suggestion of couch on short wall makes more sense.


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Here's my small room, and what I went through to get better surround effects. I'll try to find specific suggestions posted by other members, but can't promise anything. Please see if it gives you any ideas. There are pictures of the old/new surround locations sprinkled throughout the thread, as well as pics of the front half of the room on page 3.


----------



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I'd go with a drop-down screen on the wall with the WC door. Put a couch 3 feet off the wall with the loft and closet doors (facing WC side of room) and orient the entire home theater in that direction. Works well because you don't want your couch jammed against the wall (acoustically speaking). Since it's a small dedicated space, do it right...use black or darker neutral greys on the walls...have a dark colored black or neutral grey rug (otherwise you'll have all kinds of contaminating colored light bouncing off non-black/grey surfaces and onto your screen).


----------



## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

What are the distances between doors/walls? And how big is that window?


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Window is about 5.9ft wide, height is 3.10ft and center of wall. Loft door is 3.2ft from window wall. Closet door is about 1.15ft from another wall. Wc door is about 1.74ft from window wall. And door to entry is about 1.47ft from wall.
loft door size 1.97ftx 5.2ft
closet door size 2ftx5.5ft
wc door size 2ftx6ft
entry door size 2.3ftx6ft

Maybe i should sell that ultra and buy two smaller sub for easier placement


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Todd Anderson said:


> Since it's a small dedicated space, do it right...use black or darker neutral greys on the walls...have a dark colored black or neutral grey rug (otherwise you'll have all kinds of contaminating colored light bouncing off non-black/grey surfaces and onto your screen).


Since I referred the OP to my thread with room pictures, I thought I better reinforce _what not to do_! To add my 2¢... don't use HT speakers finished in white! I'll need to trade mine in for something more appropriate, but will need to figure out funds. :huh: :spend:


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Room is painted allready with really dark matte grey paint which is nearly black. Ceiling is done with ecophon matte black acoustic panels and dropped down for current height.

And those speakers and subwoofer color is black


----------



## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Does this look right?


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Yep its look quite same.


----------



## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

This is what I'd do, assuming a few things:

1) You can adjust the throw of your projector for that short a distance

and 2) The subwoofers aren't insanely overpowering if you use both.


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Ok need to test that configuration. Only problem is that speakers have passive radiator behind. So need to use stands. But i think i can handle that.


----------



## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Those locations are just general guesses. I didn't do any math...

The thing I was mostly considering was being able to fit everything in the room, have it NOT look like some tragic accident, and still be able to get to the doors. Other configurations are certainly possible, but this one allows a person to walk across the room more-or-less unobstructed by furniture or speakers. 

The 9 feet or so that your projector will have to throw might be a problem. Most projectors in the home theater arena are happy at around 10.5 feet to about 13 feet, though there are short throw projectors out there. So you might end up with a smaller viewable area than your screen will allow. If that's not acceptable, then rotating the setup 90° is in order. 

Keep the thread updated, and we'll keep giving you feedback. Have fun!


----------



## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

DqMcClain said:


> The thing I was mostly considering was being able to fit everything in the room, have it NOT look like some tragic accident, and still be able to get to the doors. Other configurations are certainly possible, but this one allows a person to walk across the room more-or-less unobstructed by furniture or speakers.
> 
> Most projectors in the home theater arena are happy at around 10.5 feet to about 13 feet, though there are short throw projectors out there. So you might end up with a smaller viewable area than your screen will allow.


Another eloquent solution, and "why didn't I think of that" moment! Contributions like yours are why I prefer HTS over the rest! :T


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

sold my projector yesterday.... anyone have good ideas for new projector for that room?


----------



## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

RaaSERI said:


> sold my projector yesterday.... anyone have good ideas for new projector for that room?


I've been very happy with my BenQ W700, and will likely replace with a W1070. There is a W1080ST model that will project up to a 120" image from ~6-7 ft. Seems perfect for your application, if the layout I suggested is what you go with. Even if you rotate the setup 90° in the room, a short throw projector might be the way to go. It will afford you more options in terms of placement. 

Food for thought.


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Ok now i get room setup done. Sold my ultra, projector and screen. 

Buyed grandview 100" tab tensioned screen and sony hw 65 projector.

Screen is attached wall where wc door is and changed entrance door opening direction. Other two door is blocked and done new entrance to loft from another room.

Now i just need to get new sub or subs.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Todd Anderson said:


> I'd go with a drop-down screen on the wall with the WC door. Put a couch 3 feet off the wall with the loft and closet doors (facing WC side of room) and orient the entire home theater in that direction. Works well because you don't want your couch jammed against the wall (acoustically speaking). Since it's a small dedicated space, do it right...use black or darker neutral greys on the walls...have a dark colored black or neutral grey rug (otherwise you'll have all kinds of contaminating colored light bouncing off non-black/grey surfaces and onto your screen).



I agree... Or use a AT screen, and put your speakers behind it. You would have to make sure though that you allow access to the doors without hitting your speakers.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

RaaSERI said:


> sold my projector yesterday.... anyone have good ideas for new projector for that room?


What is your budget? If you are not susceptible to seeing rainbows (I was and it didn't bother me as it was very infrequent) I would suggest a BenQ w1070 as a good starter projector. It is plenty bright and it is a short throw projector.


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Like replied few post ago got new projector allready which is sony vpl hw65 and 100" grandview tab tensioned. And modified doors.


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

Oh ans sold my ultra and now i need get 2-4 new subwoofers. So gimme suggestions. Budjet is about 4k euro for subs


----------



## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

stay with SVS. Nothing wrong with them. For that small 1000cuft you only will need one sub. I prefer two just to even out the response however it's so small you'll just have issues with the sub sounding boomy/bloated. $4k budget? $1500 would be more than enough sub for that space. I'd recommend as small as possible just due to space. A single SB-2000 would be adequate and two would be killer in that space and they are a 15" cube to keep the size down. You would easily get extension down to the 18hz range if not lower just do to room gain which that size I highly recommend sealed to take advantage of more gain. 

This is an area that is tricky... it's small... too much will be a bad thing (imho). You wouldn't want to go with quad 18s as your room will only allow so much to breathe.


----------



## RaaSERI (Jul 4, 2014)

So its better to go with sb2000 vs pc2000? That sb2000 smaller size look nice if it enough down low for movies.

I wanna get 2 sub to get better response


----------

