# Highs Mids & Lows (examples please)



## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,

So, when my dad was visiting me, he commented upon a different set of speakers I had. "Do you hear how you can only hear the highs and lows on this, but not the mids?" I gave a tentative "yes". But in retrospect, I never noticed anything was missing and I still don't. Maybe because I never heard it...

So, in order for me to be more attentive to the sounds I'm hearing, I'd like samples or examples of highs, mids and lows. I think I can hear "highs" and "lows" but what's a good example of a mid? What's dialog considered? Celine Dion a "high"? Bass rumbling a "low"?

Is there a sound suite or something that's free/available?

Thanks!
H


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> I think I can hear "highs" and "lows" but what's a good example of a mid?


Just about everything - vioces (both male and female), brass, woodwinds, strings, guitars, etc.

Your best bet for ascertaining midrange quailty would probably be voices. If male voices sound "boomy" all the time, I'd wonder that the mids were lacking. Sure, that can often be attributed to program equalization, but if they always sound bass heavy, then there's reason to suspect.

Likewise, I'd expect an excess of sibilance to be another indicator. Basically, if midrange in voices is lacking, then the highs and lows that the voices also generate will by default be "overdone."

Regards,
Wayne


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

hearing loss is also a possibility. If your dad listens to loud stuff a lot. Age isn't kind to the golden ears.


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

First, what are the speaker's brand & model # you are now using?


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Lordoftherings said:


> First, what are the speaker's brand & model # you are now using?



Hi,

The comment was made on my computer speakers. It's a Logitech z-2200. 

The home theater setup consists of 5 Energy C-50's. I'm pretty sure those are the smallest bookshelf speakers in that line. Ideally, I'd like to test the Energy setup to see if it does indeed fill any kind of void that's present within the Logitech. If I don't hear a difference, it could mean that both are fine with the mid-range or they're both lacking in mid-range. :crying:

H


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hi,
> 
> The comment was made on my computer speakers. It's a Logitech z-2200.
> 
> ...


I think you just answered your own question. You said the comment was made regarding your computer' speakers.
Is that telling you something?

Tip: Get some speakers like PSB Alpha B1; the midrange will return in all its glory. 
Just check for a used pair at Audiogon or some other second hand audio stores like it, you should get them for a very low price.

Your Energy C-50 speakers with a small 4.5" woofer are probably better than your Logitech Z-2200 computer' speakers. Hope you are using a subwoofer in your Home Theater setup with these Energy speakers.

Please, don't cry, just get better speakers, that's all.  
The midrange is always the most important frequency range in a speaker; that's where all the action is.
I'll say a minimum 5.25" driver would do to cover that range properly, which is exactly the size of the driver in the PSB Alpha B1 speaker. 

Cheers,
Bob


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,



Lordoftherings said:


> I think you just answered your own question. You said the comment was made regarding your computer' speakers.
> Is that telling you something?


Not really. I didn't think my speakers were missing anything. Dialog, as pointed out by Wayne, is a good indicator for mids. I personally think they sound good on the computer speakers and sound good on the C-50's. Nothing missing as far as I can tell.



Lordoftherings said:


> Tip: Get some speakers like PSB Alpha B1; the midrange will return in all its glory.  Just check for a used pair at Audiogon or some other second hand audio stores like it, you should get them for a very low price.
> 
> Your Energy C-50 speakers with a small 4.5" woofer are probably better than your Logitech Z-2200 computer' speakers. Hope you are using a subwoofer in your Home Theater setup with these Energy speakers.
> 
> ...



Regarding the PSB speakers, I'll keep it mind for next time. I just got the Energy C-50s and it was just under my budget (so it fit the budget perfectly). I'm happy with them. Just wanted to do a sanity check to make sure that I wasn't missing an entire sound range. :scratch: I purchased an Outlaw LFM-1 Plus for a subwoofer. It's overkill for the apartment I'm in, but I see that it'll certainly last me for now and the future. :T

Thanks for the suggestion,
H


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yup, thats one of the main reasons we do not recommend any Bose or Home theater in a box systems as the mids are lacking due to the driver size in the speakers being to small to reproduce them.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Yup, thats one of the main reasons we do not recommend any Bose or Home theater in a box systems as the mids are lacking due to the driver size in the speakers being to small to reproduce them.


Hi,

I'd like some clarification for future reference. So, down the line when I get another set of speakers. Is that (driver size) the main deciding factor on how good the mid range will sound? Bigger woofer/driver size = better mid range?

Going back to basics... is speaker just a speaker? So essentially, the circular thing I'm looking at.. (a tweeter) is the same as the other thing I'm looking at (a woofer) is the same thing as the last thing I'm looking at (subwoofer)? The difference is the size and housing? 

Thanks,
H


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

There is something to be said about the cabinet design as well but the driver really is the ultimate deciding factor. If there are more than one this helps somewhat.


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I'd like some clarification for future reference. So, down the line when I get another set of speakers. Is that (driver size) the main deciding factor on how good the mid range will sound? Bigger woofer/driver size = better mid range?


 No. There is no single "deciding factor", and there are a *ton* of variables.

For example: the driver in the best-sounding set of headphones in the world is pretty small. It still puts out the full range. But when we start discussing frequency and sound-pressure together we find ever increasing volumes of air need to me moved. A 1" speaker just isn't going to move a cubic foot of air no mater how it tries (it would have to extend something like 12' on each pulse).



> Going back to basics... is speaker just a speaker? So essentially, the circular thing I'm looking at.. (a tweeter) is the same as the other thing I'm looking at (a woofer) is the same thing as the last thing I'm looking at (subwoofer)? The difference is the size and housing?


 Start with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudspeaker, and don't forget to follow the sub-links.

To start with: how rigid is your speaker? an 18" paper-cone trying to move in and out 16k times per second will have ripples running across it because it cannot be rigid enough to cycle that quickly, not to mention that the driver is bigger than the waveform, and so you'll get comb filtering. A 1" tweeter trying to put out 20Hz at 90db at 1m will fry from the amount of power (or launch from its housing).

Just dealing with the cone on the driver (not the housing, not the magnets, not the coils, not the phase plug or the like, nor anything to do with the cabinet), you have to deal with mass (resistance to movement), rigidity (ability to move together), and resonance (tendancy to keep moving on its own) as well as throw (how far it can be moved), liniarity (how even is the speed of that throw), size (comb filtering), displacement (size * throw), and off-axis response (if it's 90db directly in front of it at a given frequency, what is it when you are 15 degrees off?)

That's just the cone of just the driver. It's far more complex than you think it is.


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