# Is It My Imagination...



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

...or is the Dolby TrueHD codec not being utilized anymore on Blu-ray releases? It seems every title being released as of late only carries a DTS-HD Master Audio track...

Did I sleep through some kind of soundtrack elimination ceremony over at Dolby Labs?


----------



## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Just a guess, but since the DTS-Master algorithms allow you to encode DTS 5.1 into the soundtrack somehow, it saves a bit of disk space compared to the separate tracks approach of Dolby.


----------



## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

I have recently thought the same thing. However, How to train your dragon does sport a TrueHD codec.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

While I have no idea what "How To Train Your Dragon" is, I appreciate the replies, fellas...

Is this just a space issue then? It seems Dolby TrueHD tracks are nowhere to be found on most new popular releases at least; I haven't seen a TrueHD track in a LONG time...

Was there an official announcement about this somewhere? Is Dolby having problems? My research didn't produce any tangible results...


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Yeah, its kinda depressing. I actually prefer dolby over dts, but looking at new releases most all are dts.


Depressing? :gulp:

I have always actually preferred DTS tracks on DVDs over the Dolby Digital equipped discs...

I just don't know if these new BD releases are reflecting some kind of issue at Dolby Labs where ALL new releases are coming with DTS Master Audio tracks -- has there been some kind of a dispute between the two corporations?


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

dsr7997 said:


> I'm personally in the DTS camp. I think it's the dialog normalization that has bothered me about dolby. The DTS just sounds more raw and aggressive IMO of course.


I agree 100% -- and the Dialnorm is indeed partly reponsible for this phenomenon; not to say there aren't any aggressive Dolby Digital tracks out there...have you ever experienced the Dolby track on the _Casino Royale_ DVD? :gulp::gulp::hsd:


----------



## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

You know, I've only actually heard the uncompressed PCM track on the bluray and your absolutely correct! It will bring down the house Fo Sho!


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

dsr7997 said:


> You know, I've only actually heard the uncompressed PCM track on the bluray and your absolutely correct! It will bring down the house Fo Sho!


DSR, I'm telling you from direct experience reviewing all three versions of Casino Royale -- the DVD, the first Blu-ray release and the subsequent Collector's Edition version -- the uncompressed PCM track isn't nearly in the same sonic league as the explosive Dolby Digital and Dolby TrueHD tracks found on the second BD release and DVD. I don't know what went wrong with the PCM audio on the first BD release, but it doesn't have nearly the same house-shaking LFE or sonic involvement as the LOSSY Dolby Digital track of the DVD edition (as crazy as that sounds) or even compared to the Dolby TrueHD mix on the Collector's Edition Blu-ray...:T


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

dsr7997 said:


> Not at all, there are some great Dolby TrueHD transfers such as Kung Fu Panda and Transformers, both of which are very aggressive and are often test material for me. :bigsmile:


Indeed; the first Iron Man and 30 Days of Night also sound quite involving in Dolby TrueHD...:T

The bottom line, in getting back to the point of the thread here, is that I was not implying that there was anything wrong with Dolby's TrueHD codec -- I just wanted to know if there was a reason that every new title was coming out with just a DTS Master Audio mix. onder:


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Well here is a list of Blu-rays from 2010 which include lossless audio here.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Notice how nearly every one of the titles are equipped with a DTS-HD MA track...


----------



## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Ares said:


> Well here is a list of Blu-rays from 2010 which include lossless audio here.


2009 
DTS 463
Dol 270

2010 
DTS 582
Dol *75*

Wow, thats really weak.


----------



## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Now I suddenly realize that I have been searching for over an hour trying to figure out whether or not there is something to all of this. LOL.. I can't find anything on it but it is a bit one sided.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Guys,

What are we talking about here? The initial point of the thread was to address the concern that the Dolby TrueHD codec -- specifically -- seemingly wasn't being utilized on Blu-ray releases any longer...


----------



## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

You're right Osage, I should have paid closer attention at how much the conversation shifted and needs to be it's own thread. I'll move it in a bit when I get on a PC. Sorry about that.


----------



## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Actually, according to the link that Ares provided on page one, this phenomenon is NOT his imagination:



TypeA said:


> 2009
> DTS 463
> Dol 270
> 
> ...


It still leaves me wondering 'why' this happening :huh:


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

dsr7997 said:


> You're right Osage, I should have paid closer attention at how much the conversation shifted and needs to be it's own thread. I'll move it in a bit when I get on a PC. Sorry about that.


No problem -- but which conversation did you want to move?


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Actually, according to the link that Ares provided on page one, this phenomenon is NOT his imagination:
> 
> 
> 
> It still leaves me wondering 'why' this happening :huh:


Exactly my sentiments...

_Why_ isn't Dolby's TrueHD being used on any Blu-ray releases? :scratch:


----------



## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

I emailed Dolby to ask..
I don't really expect a response, but I figured it couldn't hurt.

I'll post here if I get anything back..


----------



## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Looks like Dolby is loosing the contest for sure.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Zeitgeist said:


> I emailed Dolby to ask..
> I don't really expect a response, but I figured it couldn't hurt.
> 
> I'll post here if I get anything back..


Thanks a bunch, Zeit...

Do you have a contact there, or you just did it through their site?


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> Looks like Dolby is loosing the contest for sure.


I didn't know there was an unofficial "contest" going on between the studios and their codecs...


----------



## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

No, I don't have a contact.... just submitted through their site.

I submitted a question ages ago - asking them about DolbyCast - since I actually liked that podcast - and they received a very vague answer.... I wish they'd bring it back.

Maybe it's just my impression, but it kind of feels like Dolby lacks leadership... Certainly seems like the brand is losing some of the prominence it used to have.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Interesting. Well, at any rate, thank you for dispatching the note, and please let me know if you hear back from them. :T


----------



## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

Will do. I'm not holding my breath..

I'm not sure how they'd say diplomatically "yes, we're losing market share.. because we're doing a poor job keeping in touch with studios?" or whatever...

I thought, maybe studios are holding out for some new technology? But.............. It wouldn't be something supported by Bluray - so that's not really realistic.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Indeed; I am just curious as to why no titles are being released with their codec any longer, and as you said, it would seem bizarre for them to just come out and admit there's some kind of marketing/finance issue...I have noticed that nearly every major studio release is being equipped with a DTS Master Audio track, and TrueHD/Uncompressed PCM have gone by the wayside...


----------



## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Osage_Winter said:


> I didn't know there was an unofficial "contest" going on between the studios and their codecs...


Something tells me their respective CEOs and shareholders would disagree, and would actually say it more "official".

con·test

–noun
1. a race, conflict, or other competition between rivals, as for a prize.
2. struggle for victory or superiority.
3. strife in argument; dispute; controversy: Their marriage was marred by perpetual contest.


----------



## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

Uncompressed PCM of the same mastered material should sound the same or very close to, with either system. Perhaps the number of releases in DTS is more about some brand of studio encoder or the like being more popular and thus gets used more, especially if most of the releases are coming through similar locations/companies. I've seen in music and broadcast the rush to follow when a major player gets a certain piece of gear. For (completely made up) example, Lucas invests in Calathumpia Audio DTS encoders; smaller players will try to get the same gear or technology so they can advertise to their customers that they use 'the same gear/tech as Lucas' and that becomes a sort of standard by virus, bit like those horrible Yamaha NS10 studio monitors.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

This above statement may be closer to what's actually going on at these studios...


----------



## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

So everyone understands why Dts HD master audio is dominating TrueHD on Bluray, Dts went all over Hollywood making deals on encoding and support for Dts HD MA. It was a very sweet deal, and the studio bit the bait hook line and sinker. 

Dts is also more efficient to store on disc, because they use the core and metadata method, as opposed to the PCM zip method of TrueHD. DD+ is not supported on the Meridian lossless packing process which is the foundation of TrueHD, so a second lossy track has to be included with each TrueHD track. This takes up more space than Dts's more processing intensive method, so both have their trade offs.


----------



## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

Since DTS has done their deal making...... and DTS seems very popular now - I wonder what long term implications there are for Dolby...

Interesting that DTS is more processing intensive.. I imagine the studios care more about disk real estate than they care about how processing intensive it is..


----------



## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

Zeitgeist said:


> Since DTS has done their deal making...... and DTS seems very popular now - I wonder what long term implications there are for Dolby...
> 
> Interesting that DTS is more processing intensive.. I imagine the studios care more about disk real estate than they care about how processing intensive it is..


Dolby has got their finger in so many things, there is no worries about Dts dominating Bluray releases. They just got chosen as the 5.1 audio standard for Netflix. They also have a Dolby HDR technology for LCD panels they are going to market to post production studios. Rather than creating new products, it seems that Dolby would rather license technology, and improve upon it.


----------



## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Sir Terrence said:


> Dolby has got their finger in so many things, there is no worries about Dts dominating Bluray releases. They just got chosen as the 5.1 audio standard for Netflix. They also have a Dolby HDR technology for LCD panels they are going to market to post production studios. Rather than creating new products, it seems that Dolby would rather license technology, and improve upon it.


Good stuff Terrence. When you explain it like that, I would have to agree that Dolby is more about the licensing and improvement over doing something new.


----------



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

So, is the answer here that DTS has started some kind of agreement with the studios for exclusively using their Master Audio codec? So will Dolby ever be attached to any upcoming titles in terms of a TrueHD mix? 

Will this have anything to do with which soundtrack the films will feature in their theatrical runs I wonder?


----------



## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

Osage_Winter said:


> So, is the answer here that DTS has started some kind of agreement with the studios for exclusively using their Master Audio codec? So will Dolby ever be attached to any upcoming titles in terms of a TrueHD mix?


Actually Dts is already past the started stage, the agreements are already signed. However you will occasionally find TrueHD on some high profile titles, but Dts has basically got the studios locked up for the most part. 



> Will this have anything to do with which soundtrack the films will feature in their theatrical runs I wonder?


The answer is no. All films have a Dolby digital and Dts tracks, and all digital cinema utilizes PCM soundtrack.


----------



## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

Thanks for clearing up the cloud of mystery Sir Terrence.

I was more curious than anything else about the shift..


----------



## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

Zeitgeist said:


> Thanks for clearing up the cloud of mystery Sir Terrence.
> 
> I was more curious than anything else about the shift..


No problem. This has been a drastic shift from the DVD days.


----------

