# First Home Theater Setup - Help me save my sanity!



## GeorgeOrwell (Jan 19, 2011)

Hi all,

I'm looking to put together my first system, but could use some advice.

First some background. The project was originally a small man-cave setup, in a 10'x12' room, with a very small budget of less than $1K, including a cheapo LCD TV. I had it all figured out, bought the TV and wall mount and was ready to purchase a receiver and speaker package deal for under $500 which included some Klipsch RM6750 speakers and a Yamaha RX-V467 receiver. This plan has been altered by the wife who has "suggested" that I now create the setup in our family room, even though she has complained many times about the clutter already there from the Cable box, small stereo, X-Box and media player! What's a poor boy to do?

So now, instead of the small man-cave, I need a setup for a 20'x20' room, with is probably acoustically poor as it has some large openings into other rooms! I have already been given some basic design "guidelines" by the wife such as no large floor standing speakers, everything MUST go into a cabinet and wires must be virtually invisible.

I still want to keep this relatively inexpensive, since I fear that after she sees what is involved, she will banish the setup (and me) back to the original man-cave!

So, I am looking at the following 2 receivers. An Onkyo TX-SR608 or a Pioneer VSX-1020-K. Price is essentially equivalent, but the Onkyo seems to have more features and power. Do these seem like reasonable choices? If not, any recommendations?

Also, I haven't re-looked at speakers yet, but I don't think the Klipsch RM6750s will cut it. Any recommendations on a 5.1 setup, with small, wall mountable satellites and a decent sub? Something under $500?

Is this setup and budget unrealistic for this room? Should I just give up and slink back to my unfinished man-cave, sobbing uncontrollably in the quiet darkness?


Any suggestions or recommendations would be greatly appreciated and keep me from losing what little of my mind is left!

Thanks for the help.

GeorgeO


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## sga2 (Nov 14, 2009)

Welcome to Home Theater Shack. Given your budget your options will be limited. I'm not sure where you are looking to get your gear, but you should consider getting 2nd hand stuff on eBay or Craig's List for more bang for your buck (I'd only deal locally and for products you can try before you buy). There are also some great websites like accessories4less that offer outstanding deals. A4l sells lots of Onkyo products new and factory reconditioned, which several users here have done with good results (I got my new AVR recently from them). 



GeorgeOrwell said:


> So, I am looking at the following 2 receivers. An Onkyo TX-SR608 or a Pioneer VSX-1020-K. Price is essentially equivalent, but the Onkyo seems to have more features and power. Do these seem like reasonable choices? If not, any recommendations?


I've owned two onkyo receivers and love them both. The 608 seems like a very good one for the price. You can get the 608 factory reconditioned for $320 at a4l. If you're not concerned about 3D support, you can get the previous generation 607 which is very nearly identical for $260. They have many other models available so I'd check them out if you have not already.



GeorgeOrwell said:


> Also, I haven't re-looked at speakers yet, but I don't think the Klipsch RM6750s will cut it. Any recommendations on a 5.1 setup, with small, wall mountable satellites and a decent sub? Something under $500?
> 
> Is this setup and budget unrealistic for this room? Should I just give up and slink back to my unfinished man-cave, sobbing uncontrollably in the quiet darkness?


I think it's going to be hard to find a decent 5.1 speaker system for less than $500. You might be able to up the budget a little if you can save on the AVR, but you're still going to be making some compromises. Could you consider building your system over time? Maybe starting with a 2 or 2.1 channel system and add a center then surrounds in a few months? 

You could start with the Onkyo 607 ($260), a pair of SVS SBS-02 bookshelf speakers ($270) and an SVS PB10-NSD sub ($500) for just a hair above your $1000 budget. That would be the start of a very decent system.

Regards,
sga2


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## Guest (Jan 19, 2011)

Instead of micro speakers, could you do in-walls? http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10837&cs_id=1083702&p_id=4618&seq=1&format=2


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

*Some Suggestions*



Generic said:


> Instead of micro speakers, could you do in-walls? http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10837&cs_id=1083702&p_id=4618&seq=1&format=2


Please don't do inwalls. There's all sorts of limitations to them, too many to list here. Also the specs on the ones mentioned in the links aren't that good. They aren't very efficient and can't take much power, which translates to they won't play very loud, certainly not home theater loud (which really isn't that loud).

George,
I think you'll be pleased with the Onkyo. I have a TX-NR808 iin our dedicated home theater and it's great. I think the 608 is a real bargain.

For speakers, I haven't heard them, but I've read good reviews of the Energy line of speakers. The Energy 5.1 Take package may be just what you're looking for.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

GeorgeOrwell said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking to put together my first system, but could use some advice.
> 
> ...


George,
I second the recommendation to check out what used speakers might be available in your area. I think the Onkyo would be a good call and given the Room, I would definitely think about Klipschs as they play quite loudly with little amplifier power.

This is a major consideration when using a acoustically challenging room to use the most efficient possible speakers when working on a fairly tight budget. Klipschs are excellent in this respect. I would look for Klipsch Towers for the Fronts and the largest CC you can possibly afford.

For the time being, if you have an old pair of speakers you could you for Surrounds, that would be a good call.
Also, Dayton's Sub-120 is a fantastic value at around 150 Dollars and is available from Amazon.
Cheers.
JJ


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## GeorgeOrwell (Jan 19, 2011)

sga2 said:


> I think it's going to be hard to find a decent 5.1 speaker system for less than $500. You might be able to up the budget a little if you can save on the AVR, but you're still going to be making some compromises. Could you consider building your system over time? Maybe starting with a 2 or 2.1 channel system and add a center then surrounds in a few months?
> 
> Regards,
> sga2


I think I'd prefer to spend more $$$ and go for a full 5.1 setup. Trying to get any upgrade dollars through the budget committee (wife) later would be painful! I thought this room would require more/better speakers.




Generic said:


> Instead of micro speakers, could you do in-walls?


I don't think in-walls will work with my room layout.




DougMac said:


> Please don't do inwalls. There's all sorts of limitations to them, too many to list here. Also the specs on the ones mentioned in the links aren't that good. They aren't very efficient and can't take much power, which translates to they won't play very loud, certainly not home theater loud (which really isn't that loud).
> 
> George,
> I think you'll be pleased with the Onkyo. I have a TX-NR808 iin our dedicated home theater and it's great. I think the 608 is a real bargain.
> ...


I'm hearing more good things about the Onkyo 608 and I can get it new right now for almost the same price as a refurb unit.

Also, I just looked at the Energy Take Classic 5.1 (on sale for around $300). Are those the ones you mean? All of the reviews I have seen are good, but would they really be sufficient for my acoustically challenged 20x20 room?



Jungle Jack said:


> George,
> I second the recommendation to check out what used speakers might be available in your area. I think the Onkyo would be a good call and given the Room, I would definitely think about Klipschs as they play quite loudly with little amplifier power.
> 
> This is a major consideration when using a acoustically challenging room to use the most efficient possible speakers when working on a fairly tight budget. Klipschs are excellent in this respect. I would look for Klipsch Towers for the Fronts and the largest CC you can possibly afford.
> ...


If I opt for spending the big bucks on the sub and front/center speakers, will some cheap surrounds detract that much? Actually what would you consider to be the least critical speakers in a 5.1 setup? That way I could go cheaper on those and replace them in the near future when the wife destroys them with too much power (which I know I could arrange).


Thanks for the input all. Sounds like the AVR decision is pretty simple as everything I have read on the Onkyo 608 has been positive. However, it looks like the speaker choice is going to take a lot more research - and money.

Any additional suggestions or recommendations on speakers would be greatly appreciated. The choices seem to be endless!

GeorgeO


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

GeorgeOrwell said:


> I think I'd prefer to spend more $$$ and go for a full 5.1 setup. Trying to get any upgrade dollars through the budget committee (wife) later would be painful! I thought this room would require more/better speakers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hello,
I would allocate maximum resources to the Front Stage (Mains, Center Channel), Subwoofer, and then Surrounds.

I am quite fond of PSB's Image Series and their now discontinued x5 Series are available for an excellent deal.
DMC-Electronics.com has the Image T45 for 479 Dollars (749 MSRP) and is simply a wonderful Speaker.
Here is a link:https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm The Speakers are about halfway down the page.
Here is a Review:http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/psb_image_t45.htm

Also on that same Page is the matching Center Channel the C40 for 239 Dollars. They used to have the larger C50, but seem not to have it anymore. Also, Saturday Audio and Upscale Audio carry this line so call all 3 to see where you can get the best price. 

If you live in California, I would go with Upscale Audio, in or near Chicago Saturday Audio and anywhere else DMC. Though you would pay Sales Tax if you live in the State you Purchase it from, the shipping costs will be greatly reduced as will the chance of damage.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sga2 (Nov 14, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I would allocate maximum resources to the Front Stage (Mains, Center Channel), Subwoofer, and then Surrounds.


+1


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

First you need to find out how much your wife is willing to put up with.
Will she accept good size bookshelf speakers, or will she only accept smaller speakers.
If she cannot accept good size bookshelf speakers, then I would slink back to the mancave and do it right.
Be upfront with her from the start.

As far as whether to spend money for better front speakers or get a full system: that depends on what kind of sound you want. If you don't care about being immersed in good sound and just want simple sound coming at you, get the cheap full system.
If you want bigger, more immersive sound, get better main speakers.
Personally, I would rather live with very good 2.0 or 2.1 sound for 5 yrs instead of a cheap 5.1 system.

But again, more immersive sound comes from bigger speakers, check with the wife.


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## caliberconst. (Dec 10, 2009)

If you absolutely need to stay in your budget and can't do floor standing speakers you should look at this, as I think it is the best you could do for $500.
http://www.amazon.com/KEF-C1SYSTEM-...DJBW/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1295481960&sr=8-4
They are not as efficient as Klipsch's but the 608 should drive them just fine.
Now if you could add $230 to the budget and talk the wife into some floor standing speakers you could add these to the package http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ay-5-Floorstanding-Speakers-Pair-Black/1.html and have a 7.1 or sell the extra two on craigslist, to ease the pain of going a little over on the budget. The tower's a little more efficient too and are fairly slender at only 7" wide.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

As previously suggested i would focus on the front stage for now.Also IMO you can't go wrong with PSB.:T


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

GeorgeOrwell said:


> Also, I just looked at the Energy Take Classic 5.1 (on sale for around $300). Are those the ones you mean? All of the reviews I have seen are good, but would they really be sufficient for my acoustically challenged 20x20 room?
> 
> [From OP]: Is this setup and budget unrealistic for this room?
> 
> GeorgeO


My recommendation was based on your budget, the speaker you mentioned and WAF. The Energy's may be adequate, but not optimum.

I also think you should consider PSB's. I've auditioned them and they do sound nice. Look at ID companies likes SVS and Ascend. I run Ascend 340's for mains, 170's for side surrounds and 200's for rear surrounds. I have an SVS sub. This would be plenty for your 20x20 room. I think the 340's would strain the WAF. Even an all 170 system would to a fine job. I think the 170's are very similar to PSB Image B6's. The Images are $550/pr, where the 170's are $350/pr.

Is your budget unrealistic? I think that depends on your goals. I don't think it's as much an issue of room size as it is a matter of expectations. Budget systems like the Klipsch you were looking at or the Energy that I recommended are in a different class than PSBs or Ascends. Moving them to a smaller room might help a little, but it won't change what they are.


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## Koopa (Aug 19, 2008)

The Ascend 170's are terrific. They are not the best looking but, not as bad as some. I just upgraded to the 170's with a 340 center and have to say they sound amazing. The 170's were on sale for $298 a pair but, that may have ended. 

If your worried about budget I recommend spending what you have on the fronts and center and upgrade over time.


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## Slyder01 (Jan 11, 2011)

if you're going to do this greorge, take the good advise from the people here and do it right... You already joined a forum to get info which you know you cant get from 16yr olds at best buy or you would have already bought a box set-up and it would have sounded just like that,, a box. If you can (and the wife allows) build it in sections over months or possibly get a loan...(tell that to the wife,hehehe).. There's nothing like sitting down and watching a great movie with totally awesome sound effects that put you in the movie in the presence of your own home. 
Good Luck!


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## IrishStout (Nov 12, 2010)

The PSB B6's sound great, I just purchased the SVS STS-02 and SCS-02 and they sound fantastic. I actually ended up chosing the SVS's over the Klipsch RF82 and RC62. The Klipsch at definetly more iin your face but I found the SVS just had fantastic mids and I could use them for HT and they sounded excellent and could also listen to music .. either way I felt right in the middle of the movie or the music. I also purchased an Onk 808.


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## GeorgeOrwell (Jan 19, 2011)

First, thanks for all of the advice and suggestions. I went to listen to some higher-end speaker setups the other day (big mistake) with the wife and now I know for sure my budget won't be adequate for the space and she agreed - sort of. There really is a major difference between the $500 speaker sets and the $2K - $3K, or more, setups. So, after some discussions, we agreed on a compromise - cheap now, the "good" stuff next year (I hate it when she makes sense). We just made our LAST college tuition payment, so next year there will be funds available to do it right and the cheap stuff will be relegated to a small den

Also, after she saw some of the high-end speakers in some extremely attractive wood enclosures, she now agrees that a good home theater setup doesn't have to be an eyesore of cables and ugly plastic boxes. Now I've got a whole year to research what will be a good system for the room.

By the way, for the "cheap" setup, I ordered the Energy Take Classic. The price was good and there was a $100 gift card thrown in. I think I'll use that to get the Onkyo SR608, which is also available now for a good price. That brings me a little over budget, but I couldn't see getting one of those HTiB systems. That should make for a decent setup when it gets moved to the small den next year.

Again, thanks for the input. I'll most likely be back after I start looking at real speakers. There are just some many mfgs, models, types, etc., I need to do some learnin' so I don't ask too many stupid questions.

Regards,

George


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Super Big Thumbs Up!!!
Good job with the wife.

I had the same experience when I auditioned speakers. I went in to audition several in a certain price range, finally decided on the JBL Northridge towers. I kept noticing the more expensive JBL Studio towers but I didn't want to listen because I figured they would sound better and then I would have to get them. I convinced myself that sure they would sound better but not enough to justify the price so I should go ahead and listen. 

Wow!!! Huge difference. It wasn't just a better quality sound, it was the experience of being immersed in sound (in stereo with 2 speakers). When I closed my eyes listening to the cheaper speakers, I could still picture the sound coming from 2 speakers boxes. Listening to the Studios, it didn't sound like the sound was coming from the speakers, there was a huge wall of sound in front of me and it sounded like it was all around me too.

I went through the exact same process choosing between the 10" or the 12". After hearing the 12" I had to have those.

I'm smiling listening to them right now and thinking about that moment I discovered my optimal speakers (optimal for my budget, I know there's much better out there).


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## KrazyK (Feb 28, 2010)

gdstupak said:


> Super Big Thumbs Up!!!
> Good job with the wife.
> 
> I had the same experience when I auditioned speakers. I went in to audition several in a certain price range, finally decided on the JBL Northridge towers. I kept noticing the more expensive JBL Studio towers but I didn't want to listen because I figured they would sound better and then I would have to get them. I convinced myself that sure they would sound better but not enough to justify the price so I should go ahead and listen.
> ...


Best advice given.

A quality 2-channel system will always sound better then 5 lower end speakers.
Less is more when it comes to a low price point! 
Purchase some front standing, efficient speakers; tow them in properly and enjoy.

I won't even get into the fact that most receivers can't even drive 5 speakers.
If you want to fill your 20x20 room with noise; by all means buy 5 speakers.
If you want some quality sound; use the power in your receiver to drive two quality speakers in stereo.

You'll even have less boxes in your room for the wife.....win win!!


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I've read many posts asking if they would miss anything by using stereo fronts without a center. With cheaper speakers, yes a center helps fill in the front soundstage. With really good stereo speakers (and a soundtrack that is properly mixed), sound meant to appear centered will. 
I have a center speaker that's used for movies, but when listening to music in 2 channel, sometimes I have to get my ear up to the center speaker to make sure it's not playing, that's how well my L/R speakers fill in the center. My L/R speakers are 9.5' apart.


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## KrazyK (Feb 28, 2010)

gdstupak said:


> I've read many posts asking if they would miss anything by using stereo fronts without a center. With cheaper speakers, yes a center helps fill in the front soundstage. With really good stereo speakers (and a soundtrack that is properly mixed), sound meant to appear centered will.
> I have a center speaker that's used for movies, but when listening to music in 2 channel, sometimes I have to get my ear up to the center speaker to make sure it's not playing, that's how well my L/R speakers fill in the center. My L/R speakers are 9.5' apart.


Imaging is the key to good audio. I've watched "movies" in 2-channel on high end systems and didn't miss a thing!
Marketing has told us we need to consume more at the expense of quality. 
My point is to build a system over time with quality components. 
My AV pro contact says: "He won't even add in center and surrounds until he has the imagining spot on in stereo"! 
I agree a center speaker is a bonus to have for movies; but it isn't as necessary as everyone would have you believe. 
Two speakers with the correct toe-in to the listener will fill in the void in sound and your wallet!!!!!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

KrazyK said:


> Imaging is the key to good audio. I've watched "movies" in 2-channel on high end systems and didn't miss a thing!
> Marketing has told us we need to consume more at the expense of quality.
> My point is to build a system over time with quality components.
> My AV pro contact says: "He won't even add in center and surrounds until he has the imagining spot on in stereo"!
> ...


Hello,
I agree with the importance of proper setup and literally spent hours setting up my Speakers. That being said, while a well setup 2 Channel rig can give you an excellent experience, I do not think it makes up for the loss of Surrounds and a Center Channel. That being said, to each their own.
Cheers,
JJ


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## KrazyK (Feb 28, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I agree with the importance of proper setup and literally spent hours setting up my Speakers. That being said, while a well setup 2 Channel rig can give you an excellent experience, I do not think it makes up for the loss of Surrounds and a Center Channel. That being said, to each their own.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I Agree.

My point was about budget vs. performance.
At what point does having a "small budget with high expectations" get in the way of the experience?


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I would never give up my center/surround speakers.
But if I were doing it over from scratch and only had $1000-$1200 for speakers, I would by these JBL mains and a good sub like the HSU.
Then over the next couple years, complete the system.
I'd rather live with 2 or 3 really good speakers for a year, instead of spending the same money on a full system upfront.


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## KrazyK (Feb 28, 2010)

gdstupak said:


> I would never give up my center/surround speakers.
> But if I were doing it over from scratch and only had $1000-$1200 for speakers, I would by these JBL mains and a good sub like the HSU.
> Then over the next couple years, complete the system.
> I'd rather live with 2 or 3 really good speakers for a year, instead of spending the same money on a full system upfront.


Exactly what I was getting at.
Build over time.........or mortgage the house and do it right!!!!!!

Oh wait the banks aren't lending!!!!!


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## Slyder01 (Jan 11, 2011)

i think for most of us it seems we're really not ever done building... I started when stereo came to tv,,,lol.. it seems once you start it's hard to stop. There's nothing wrong with my polk rt16 mains but i find myself now looking at the rti9's and wanting them,, then i believe i'll need an extra amp to power those puppies,, WHEN IS IT GOING TO END! :dontknow: lol


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