# To Denon or Onkyo (not as simple as you'd think ;o)



## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

Hi Fellow Shackers,

I am in a bit of a quandary on changes to my home theater set-up. I currently have an Onkyo receiver that is a couple of years old. I bought it right before HDMI audio processing, so to get DTS MA and DD HD I have to run 7.1 analog. Otherwise, it is a great receiver and I am perfectly happy with it, despite having to run a bunch of cables.

My brother is moving to China for two years and has offered to let me purchase his Denon AVR 1909 for around $200. Obviously, this would be a step up in capabilities, but with the rate at which HT tech is changing, I am wondering if I should wait until this whole 3D thing shakes out and keep my $ for a later date.

Buying the receiver from my brother would essentially wipe out my "fun" account (where I stash cash for audio/tech toys), so that is a consideration to.

What are your thoughts?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Denon is a good receiver and for $200 is not a bad deal (not great but not bad either) I would not worry about HDMI 1.4 (3D) as that is not really necessary given the cost. 3D is very expensive to get into and in my opinion a waist of money.


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

Thanks for the reply and thoughts!

After doing some more research, it looks like the Denon also has dynamic volume EQ and dynamic cinema EQ, which would be a plus as we pull in our TV OTA and the commercials are LOUD and listen to a lot of movies late at night and don't want to wake the kids. Onkyo doesn't have that.

I was considering purchasing a Marantz HT Receiver in a couple of years, which was the hesitation on the Denon. Denon vs. Marantz?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Onkyo still offers allot more bang for buck these days Marantz is always late with coming out with new features sometimes even two years behind. Most Onkyo's have Audyssey Dynamic EQ 
and Audyssey Dynamic Volume so thats not an issue. Personally Onkyo is my first recommendation.


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Personally Onkyo is my first recommendation.


Did you mean Denon? I already have an Onkyo.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Sorry, What I meant is if your going to buy new Onkyo would be my first choice. The Denon that you can buy for 200 is what I would do for now.


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Sorry, What I meant is if your going to buy new Onkyo would be my first choice. The Denon that you can buy for 200 is what I would do for now.


Thanks for the clarification. I really appreciate the input!


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Well here's my take on this. I would wait and save up some more money and then when you have enough you can buy something that has all the bells and whistles whether it be an Onkyo or Pioneer or anything but I don't think buying your brothers is a big step up, soundwise, and it will more than likely make you happier to have a more futureproof,if there is such a thing, reciever to add to your HT. :T


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

I would certainly consider Audyssey MultEQ with Dynamic EQ a significant upgrade. It sounds as if you would find Dynamic Volume useful, too. 

The early Denon 1909s had a firmware bug where Dolby Digital had a decode bug in the bass. If this particular unit suffers this problem, it can be avoided with PCM or by sending the unit in for a firmware upgrade.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm a Denon fan but i'd say save your cash and get a new Onkyo.:bigsmile:


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

I'm partial to trying out the Denon. Onkyo is a great brand, but in my experience less reliable. It's splitting hairs, but Onkyos seem to be breaking more these days than Denons. You really can't go wrong here as Denon and Onkyo are the kings of the industry.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> I'm partial to trying out the Denon. Onkyo is a great brand, but in my experience less reliable. It's splitting hairs, but Onkyos seem to be breaking more these days than Denons. You really can't go wrong here as Denon and Onkyo are the kings of the industry.


OK, now i'm back to Denon, i wasn't aware of the problems the the Onkyo's were giving as it seems i've heard all good news about them.:innocent:


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

> I'm partial to trying out the Denon. Onkyo is a great brand, but in my experience less reliable. It's splitting hairs, but Onkyos seem to be breaking more these days than Denons. You really can't go wrong here as Denon and Onkyo are the kings of the industry.
> 
> Read more: Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com - Reply to Topic


I know some reported the 805 and 875 running hot but I was not aware of other issues?

Matt


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

laser188139 said:


> The early Denon 1909s had a firmware bug where Dolby Digital had a decode bug in the bass. If this particular unit suffers this problem, it can be avoided with PCM or by sending the unit in for a firmware upgrade.


How would I know if this issue affects my brother's receiver? He doesn't pay too close of attention to that stuff and may well have gotten a notification from Denon, but not done anything about it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

lsiberian said:


> I'm partial to trying out the Denon. Onkyo is a great brand, but in my experience less reliable. It's splitting hairs, but Onkyos seem to be breaking more these days than Denons. You really can't go wrong here as Denon and Onkyo are the kings of the industry.


Can you please stop spreading false information lsiberian, This is simply not facts at all. I have read of many people who own Denons who have issues as well. Pioneers, Sony, & Yamaha also have issues and so does HK and Marantz. When you sell tens of thousands of receivers a year there are bound to be issues with quality, Onkyo is a very popular brand and is not any more unreliable than the others.


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

mdrake said:


> I know some reported the 805 and 875 running hot but I was not aware of other issues?
> 
> Matt


My Onkyo is older than those two models and can attest to the sucker running quite hot - not hot to the touch, but it kicks out a lot of heat! Otherwise, I have had good luck with the thing.

I appreciate all the input. Haven't decided just what to do yet, but am leaning toward buying the Denon off my brother. I have an older (in perfect condition) Yamaha reciever, a pair of Klipsch iFi speakers and a Yamaha sub I could peddle on ebay to help pay for it. The stuff is just sitting around not in use, so why not?

And I just found out the other day that we have our third kiddo on the way :rubeyes:, so I am thinking I won't be doing much upgrading for awhile after he/she shows up.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

It's not a matter of major difference I'm talking here. I'd certainly not steer people away from Onkyo, but I've seen more issues personally with them. It's hair splitting at best and probably bad luck. Many folks here have Onkyo's with no issues so I'd not make it a primary criteria, but I think the deal is decent for the Denon in this case. My standard receiver recommendation is normally the Onkyo 707 so don't read too much into the previous comment.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Can you please stop spreading false information lsiberian, This is simply not facts at all.


It is a fact that I've encountered more problems with Onkyo receivers than Denon ones. And I'm not talking just about the firmware issues your 805 series Onkyo had or the fire safety concerns which IMO were vastly overstated. I've got a couple of friends who have had issues with inputs failing on their 05 series Onkyo's. I've never had a friend encounter a Denon issue. I realize some day I probably will, but the fact remains that I haven't. I wasn't speaking in statistics I was speaking in experience. 

You have what I consider the greatest receiver ever made by Onkyo so I understand your love for the company and their products. I am in no way saying that they aren't still the best choice for many situations. My standard recommendation is still the 707 for it's feature/price value. However in this case my goal was to reassure the OP that he had a reliable receiver in the long term in the 1909 based on my experience with the various brands. 

I conclude by saying that I'm by no means the sole source of experience. There are many experiences including Tony's that I value equally or more in these discussions.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

ndurantz said:


> How would I know if this issue affects my brother's receiver? He doesn't pay too close of attention to that stuff and may well have gotten a notification from Denon, but not done anything about it.


Looking back in the 1909 thread, it appears the later firmware version is 00.90. This was initially published as fixing the iPod docking station issue. I found a note describing how to display the firmware versions here.


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

laser188139 said:


> I found a note describing how to display the firmware versions here.


Awesome! Thanks for that research!! :T


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## SHUTTERUP (Jan 8, 2010)

:T Not to be OT here but I've had nothing but good results with Onkyo Starting with my beloved TX-SV313Pro then the TX-DS797 now currently the 805 which by the way has been stellar no issues what so ever. 


Unfortunately i'm looking to upgrade:T to the 1007 for more HDMI and other stuff and i know i'm going to be happy with it.


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

This thread turned into a little bit of a Denon vs. Onkyo thing and that was not my intention. What I was trying to assess is whether I should buy the Denon or hold out, save my money and buy something else later. I have had good luck with Onkyo and really am not partial to either manufacturer at this point - whatever gives me the best performance for the $ is where my allegiances lie :R

So I bought the Denon from my brother for $180 and to date am pleased with the purchase. I am not sure what it is, but my little Orb Mod set-up has seemingly come more to life with the Denon at the heart of the system.

That being said, I am wondering about three things:

1) I can't get the firmware check method to work letting me know whether it has the latest firmware version or not. I am only concerned as it seems the sub hits harder at lower frequencies than in upper (within the spectrum I have directed to the sub - set the cross-over at 100).

2) It seems there are a few settings related to the sub and low-end of the spectrum. I simply set the cross-over. What else do I need to check on and where do I go to do that?

3) The Denon is significantly taller than my old Onkyo, which leaves only about 2" above the unit for air circulation. The Onkyo ran hot, the Denon doesn't seem to so much, but know that isn't a lot of breathing room regardless of the unit in the space. Should I be concerned about the unit over-heating?

Thanks again for all of your help!!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I wouldn't worry about the Denon over heating too much it may get warm but probly not hot and shouldn't thermo, I have 7 large speakers hooked to my 3808 and never had an issue, i have had it hot but yet to have it thermo.:T

As for the Firmware update i'm not sure if that is a glitch in the system or what as i can't do a firmware update on mine either. My dealer told me to try resetting my router but i have yet to try it.:dontknow:


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

bambino said:


> I wouldn't worry about the Denon over heating too much it may get warm but probly not hot and shouldn't thermo, I have 7 large speakers hooked to my 3808 and never had an issue, i have had it hot but yet to have it thermo.:T
> 
> As for the Firmware update i'm not sure if that is a glitch in the system or what as i can't do a firmware update on mine either. My dealer told me to try resetting my router but i have yet to try it.:dontknow:


Cool. Thanks for the reassurance on the heating. The Denon is an icebox compared to the Onkyo, which is nice since I don't have a lot of space.

On the firmware, I am not trying to update it, I am just trying to find out what version I have. I think you have to send it to Denon to have the firmware updated. I did reset the microprocessor prior to hooking up the unit, so I should have started with a clean slate.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

No problem!


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

as some said the avr 1909 is a great unit especially at that price, many people should be aware that some companies make a blue ray that has both 1.3 and 1.4 like panasonic. this way all people could keep their 
avr and enjoy 3d.
take care DVI


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

gumberlack said:


> as some said the avr 1909 is a great unit especially at that price, many people should be aware that some companies make a blue ray that has both 1.3 and 1.4 like panasonic. this way all people could keep their
> avr and enjoy 3d.
> take care DVI


Thanks for the comment. As of right now, I am very happy that I bought it from him. Sounds amazing IMO. On the blu-ray, what are you referring to? That you could get a 3D capable TV and still run the signal through HDMI on this receiver and still watch 3D - essentially a dual version (1.3 & 1.4) blu-ray disc? Sorry if I am misunderstanding.


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## gumberlack (Aug 9, 2010)

yes indeed the model number is DMPBD T 350 FROM PANASONIC it has hdmi 1.3 to go to your denon avr 1909 or else that is 1.3 and you take the second hdmi 1,4 to your new plasma ar acl 3d tv and voila it works!!! dvi


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

gumberlack said:


> yes indeed the model number is DMPBD T 350 FROM PANASONIC it has hdmi 1.3 to go to your denon avr 1909 or else that is 1.3 and you take the second hdmi 1,4 to your new plasma ar acl 3d tv and voila it works!!! dvi


Oh, I see. The player has two HDMI outs - one for audio and one for video. Of course, I can always use the good ol' stand by 7.1 analog ins on a number of other 3D blu-ray players. However, it is nice to see a manufacturer realize that some of us like to incrementally upgrade rather than buying a whole new system every two years!! Guess they think it would be better to have some of my money now rather than all of it later!

Maybe they'll bring out holigraphic TV's next year :coocoo:


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## ndurantz (Aug 10, 2008)

Just an update. The Denon is one nice unit. I am really enjoying it, however, I did get the firmware checked and it is way out of date. However, since I don't have the warranty info, I probably would have to pay for the update out of pocket, so I am going to wait and see if the issue is very noticable with the Audy engaged. I haven't set it up yet, so I will keep you all posted as to what I find when I do.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Glad to hear you are liking the Denon, I never did have the firmware done on mine and it's just fine for me.
On a side note though i don't use audessy anyhow so.....


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