# Suggestions for pre wired 5.1 system



## azdurango

Hi everyone. New guy here. My name is Brian, I live in Phoenix, Az. I just purchashed a new home that is prewired for 5.1. Wifey has given me the go ahead to hook it up, but my budget is about 1200 dollars. I need everything from sub and speakers to receiver. I'm not looking for anything super fancy with all the latest high tech goodies, just a good sounding system to watch tv, movies and play music and video games on. Do I have a realistic budget to accomplish what I am looking for, and if so what are your recommendations for components and where to get them at? Please excuse my ignorance, I am a complete noob when it comes to home audio. Thanks in advance for your help


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## gdstupak

*Re: Help with pre wired 5.1*

$1200 can get you better sound than what your tv is putting out, but it will not sound powerful or room-filling like a real theater. 
We need more info from you:

Aesthetically speaking, what type of main speakers can you and your wife live with (remember that usually the bigger the speaker, the bigger the sound)?:

....satellite speakers that are all connected to a single woofer box (an example of this is the popular Bose Accoustimass system). The main speakers all have very small enclosures, ~4" cubes.

.....compact bookshelf speakers, ~5"W x 9"H x 6"D.

.....bookshelf speakers, ~8"W x 15"H x 11"D.

.....on wall speakers, these can be the size of compact bookshelf speakers or larger. 

.....in-wall or in-ceiling speakers, these can be the size of compact bookshelf speakers or larger.

Bookshelf size speakers would probably sound best. In-wall/in-ceiling speakers usually cost higher for proper and good sound.

Same question for the size of Subwoofer. Can you live with a subwoofer that is at least 15"W x 20"H x 19"D? This is where size definitely makes a difference, the bigger, the better.


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## azdurango

*Re: Help with pre wired 5.1*

It's gonna be in ceiling speakers and as far as bass, we are not looking for shake the wall, off the neighbor boom. We just want clean, clear sound. Nothing too over the top. I hope I explained that well. Thanks for the help.


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## gdstupak

*Re: Help with pre wired 5.1*

***EDIT*** I wrote this up before seeing you want in-ceiling speakers.....


Possibly:

1 center channel, Pioneer SP-C21 ~$79 +$15shipping
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-C21-Watt-2-Way-Speaker/dp/B004MF4S0M/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_b

2 main speakers, Pioneer SP-BS41-LR ~$145/pr +$29shipping
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0..._m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1CMBSW3J5HSNQ9KM4Z3N

2 surround speakers, Pioneer SP-BS21-LR ~$68/pr +$15shipping (normally $100/pr)
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS21-LR-Watt-2-Way-Speaker/dp/B004MEWZE4

1 subwoofer, HSU VTF-1 ~$450 (+$45shipping)
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1.html

AVR, Denon AVR-1912 ~$350 free shipping (normally $550). I chose this AVR specifically because it is the cheapest available with Audyssey MultEQ.
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...rk-A/V-Home-Theater-Receiver-w/Airplay/1.html


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## chashint

Well, I saw a Peanuts cartoon once and Sally had a few coins to buy Christmas presents with, Linus told her it was not enough... her response was... it has to be.
Point being everyone's budget is what it is. While I think this stuff is worth spending as much as you can on I do not think it is worth going into debt for.

With $1200 budget it will go quickly once we start slicing it up.

Some additional information is needed.
Your room is pre-wired, where are the speaker drops ?
Are the in the ceiling ? Walls ? Are they near the ceiling / floor ?

Is anything ruled out before you start... tower speakers ok ?.......... bookshelf speakers ok ?........... do you need the speakers to be wall mount ?................ how big is to big ???

Please describe the situation.
Room dimensions are also helpful.

Is $1200 all you can spend period or can this be a work in progress where you start out with all the money being put into the front three speakers and say next year add a sub and surround speakers ?
Its OK if $1200 needs to be the grand total, just asking questions so I have a better idea where to go with this.


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## chashint

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117397 x1 $170
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117397 x2 $400
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780086 x1 $200
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1mk2.html x1 $494
total $1264


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## wgmontgomery

*Re: Help with pre wired 5.1*

Welcome to the site azdurango! 

A few years ago I worked for a company that did prewires/custom installs. You stated that it's a new home; most builders contract with a company to prewire ALL of their homes. You can probably get the company's name from the builder and contact them. When a house is prewired a "map" is usually drawn to show where all of the speaker wires are located; there _may_ be some that you can't see (2 more for 7.1, other rooms, outside etc.) behind the sheet rock.

Glenn is correct that we need a bit more info. Where do the wires for the mains (left and right) speakers come out of the wall? Is it a bookshelf or the wall itself? Any info that you can add would be helpful. 

As for companies that sell equipment, Glenn posted some good suggestions. You can also check-out:

Parts Express: 
http://www.parts-express.com/

Value Electronics: http://www.valueelectronics.com/

and many others.

OR contact the company that wired the home. They will usually come out and walk you through what they wired and why they wired it the way they did. They can give you a lot of useful info! Good luck!!


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## azdurango

Sorry for the vague initial description. My great room is pre wired with 5 ceiling mount speakers. 3 speakers in the front and 2 in the rear with an outlet in the wall towards the floor for a subwoofer. The wires are already in the ceiling with plates covering them, so I assume I just need to cut out the template for the speakers? The room is 17'x13.5'. Also if possible I would like to do the whole system with the 1200 dollar budget.


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## mechman

Copied posts from duplicate thread and merged here. Also moved to the proper forum. :T


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## wgmontgomery

Here's a link that may help:

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?srchExt=CAT&srchCat=379
There are A LOT of options here at various prices.
and another:

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PACC65

On sale for $99 a pair! They have others, too.

One thing that I would look for in a ceiling mounted speaker is a _pivoting tweeter_; it allows you to angle the tweeter at the listening position for better sound.

BTW-thanks mech!


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I was just in Scottsdale last Weekend for my brother's Wedding. Those are some nice packages proposed to you. Newegg simply has some amazing deals. I would check out the Speaker Section and pick out a 5.1 Speaker Array. For an AVR, I would go with either the Onkyo TX-NR609 or 709 if budget allows. There is a Recall on some Onkyo's made between November and January, but it appears to be a small number and seems to affect the more expensive Series the most.
Cheers,
J


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## gdstupak

The Onkyo 609 does not have Audyssey MultEQ (yes, it does have 2EQ), and I feel this is a big enough drawback that I wouldn't recommend that model.


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## Jungle Jack

With a $1200 budget for an AVR and 5.1, sometimes sacrifices have to be made. I could not agree more about the importance of MultEQ, but the 609 does offer excellent power reserves for an AVR that price and offers Networked Features.


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## gdstupak

The Onkyo 609 is ~$320 w/ shipping.
The Denon 1912 is $350 w/ shipping.
I think an extra $30 is worth it to get MultEQ. I think MultEQ would be more important than power reserves or networking, for a budget system (if Denon's power reserves were actually bad, or if the OP needed the best power reserves available, then I would recommend the Onkyo over the Denon).


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## azdurango

Thanks for all of the great advice and links. I have another noob question. Since my system is going to be flush mounted ceiling speakers, should all 5 of them be the same speaker or should I have a dedicated pair for the rear two, dedicated pair for front left and right and another for the the front center? If so what kind of speakers/specs should I be looking for for each section?


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## bigjbk

Brian,
Assuming you have a screen then $1200 is a good start. A lot of the equipment mentioned will work out well. If not then you have problems. Start with the screen. Then add the other pieces as you can. 
If you have a good screen, then I agree with the previous post by Glen get the mains and a center channel to match. I have not enjoyed the sound of ceiling speakers like a great pair of mains. But if you insist on ceiling speakers, then Gary's suggestion is a great start.


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## azdurango

Yes, I already have a good screen so the budget is solely going towards speakers and a receiver. The only reason that I am dead set on ceiling speakers is because my house is pre wired for it so I figure I may as well take advantage of it, plus I think it looks a lot cleaner than speakers set out on shelves and stands. That's just my opinion though.


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## gdstupak

Technically it would be best to use all of the exact same speaker model for all channels. 

To get a slightly better set up, you could delay buying the surround speakers. Right now you could get the AVR (~$350), and get the sub (~$500), and get the front 3 speakers (~$115/ea). Right now you could skip the surround speakers (if you bought all speakers now, then you would only have a budget left for ~$70/ea). Then sometime soon, when you've saved up another $200-$300, you could by 2 more speakers for the surrounds (these speakers would be the same model as the front 3 speakers).
Just another suggestion.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

azdurango said:


> Sorry for the vague initial description. My great room is pre wired with 5 ceiling mount speakers. 3 speakers in the front and 2 in the rear *with an outlet in the wall towards the floor for a subwoofer.*


Gotta watch out for those “subwoofer” outlets in a pre-wired system. Many times they are just another speaker wire. The kind of gear we’re discussing here require a shielded cable with RCA jacks on both ends. Using an unshielded speaker cable between the receiver and the sub often gets you an annoying hum in the sub.

Regards,
Wayne


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## wgmontgomery

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Gotta watch out for those “subwoofer” outlets in a pre-wired system. Many times they are just another speaker wire. The kind of gear we’re discussing here require a shielded cable with RCA jacks on both ends. Using an unshielded speaker cable between the receiver and the sub often gets you an annoying hum in the sub.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Excellent point. Is it speaker cable or coaxial cable coming out of the wall for the sub?

When I prewired homes, I always ran speaker cable AND RG6 (coaxial) for the sub. As I mentioned earlier, it wouldn't hurt to contact the company who wired the house. Most builders contract with a specific company to do their prewires, so just make a call to the builder and ask. We always went back to the home and did a walk-through with the new owner (at no charge), explained "what was what" and made recommendations. You can get a lot of info for free that way, and you may get someone to finish the install for you at the same time! Just my 2¢...


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## azdurango

Ok guys. Thank you for all of the great replies and advice. My sub wire is a coaxial, so that is not a problem. Here is what I have come up with so far for speakers. Please let me know if these are any good.

5 ceiling speakers
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-RC...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332704966&sr=1-1

Subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332704846&sr=1-2

That just leaves me with a receiver and about 500 left to play with. What do you guys think?


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## gdstupak

Subwoofer:
I've never heard that model Polk sub, nor have I heard the HSU model VTF1. But if I had to choose one of those models without hearing them, it would be the HSU VTF1 simply because I trust HSU to have done it right.
HSU VTF-1 ~$450 (+$45shipping)
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-1.html

If you can afford to spend more on the sub, it would be well worth the money to get the 
HSU VTF2-mk4 $519 (+$63shipping).
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk4.html

=============================================================

AVR:
I still like the Denon 1912 because it has the MultEQ.
Denon AVR-1912 ~$350 free shipping (normally $550). 
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...rk-A/V-Home-Theater-Receiver-w/Airplay/1.html

If you can afford to spend more on the AVR, I would recommend the 
Onkyo TX-NR709 $480 (+~$20shipping).
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html


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## azdurango

Here's a dumb question. Can I use a 7.1 receiver for a 5.1 system? Just have 2 speaker outlets that aren't used?


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## gdstupak

That's right, you can hook up just the 5 speakers and tell the AVR that you are not using 7.1
I haven't checked with this specific unit, but usually you can use those 2 extra channels/amps to power speakers in another location. If you want to run stereo speakers in your kitchen or bedroom, you can hook those up to the 2 unused AVR channels/amps. While you are listening/watching a 5.1 sound movie in the living room, the wife can be listening to her favorite CD or radio station in the kitchen.


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## azdurango

Cool. Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it. I am completely clueless when it comes to home audio. What are your thoughts on those Polk ceiling speakers that I posted a couple replies up? I always thought Polk made some pretty decent stuff??


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## gdstupak

Hopefully someone else with more Polk experience will chime in, I don't have much. The few Polk speakers that I have heard, I didn't care for the sound, that's just my personal experience, you may love them.
Then on the other side of that is the in-ceiling aspect of them. Decent sounding in-ceiling speakers cost a bit more than bookshelf speakers with comparable sound quality. I notice those Polk's have a fairly high original selling price, if that is not an inflated price, then maybe they will sound decent. If their sound quality matches their ~$70/ea sale price, then I don't have much hope for them.


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## azdurango

Ok I am going to end up getting the Denon receiver, but I have it narrowed down to 2 different sets of speakers and subs. I really need some advice on which way to go. The first choice is the Polk set up that I posted earlier. The second choice is the following.

5 in ceiling speakers
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-478&scqty=5

Subwoofer
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=303-436&scqty=1

Please help!!! I'm thinking that the Dayton's will be better just because they are angled with a pivoting tweeter where the Polk's just have the pivoting tweeter. Although, the Polks are 8 inches as opposed to 6 1/2 that the Daytons are???


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## wgmontgomery

Telling you which speaker is "better" is a very difficult thing to do in this situation. There are pros and cons to each as you noted (the Polk's _larger_ driver vs.the Dayton's _angled_ driver since both have pivoting tweeters). :dontknow:

I have no idea what either speaker sounds like or what you like. A larger driver doesn't always equal better. It _should_ give you a bit more bass. The angled driver_ should _help with the midrange. It's a tough call! Maybe someone who has heard each speaker (or one of them) will give you an idea of how they sound. Sorry, but it IS a tough call. :scratch:


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## wgmontgomery

gdstupak said:


> Then on the other side of that is the in-ceiling aspect of them. Decent sounding in-ceiling speakers cost a bit more than bookshelf speakers with comparable sound quality. I notice those Polk's have a fairly high original selling price, if that is not an inflated price, then maybe they will sound decent. If their sound quality matches their ~$70/ea sale price, then I don't have much hope for them.


Glenn had some excellent points, so I thought I'd quote part of his post. Are either returnable if you don't like them? THAT may be something to think about. Of course, once they are in the ceiling it may be a moot point.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Polk makes a solid Speaker. As you are using In Ceiling Speakers, I would focus primarily on the Subwoofer as personally I have never noticed a huge difference between a solid In Ceiling and a High End In Ceiling Speaker. While certainly an elegant solution, there is definitely an Acoustic Tradeoff.
Cheers,
JJ


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## azdurango

Ok guys, I think that I am going to go with the Polk speakers and the Denon receiver. That's a grand total of 1022.17, well within my budget plus some leftover to get HDMI cables and coaxial sub wire. Someone please stop me if you think this is a bad decision. I am pulling the trigger tomorrow if nobody tells me otherwise. Thank you for all of the great advice, I really appreciate it.

Receiver
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...rk-A/V-Home-Theater-Receiver-w/Airplay/1.html

5 ceiling speakers
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-RC...1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332704966&sr=1-1

Subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-12...2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1332704846&sr=1-2


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## wgmontgomery

The Daytons from Parts Express have a great reputation on this site, and Polk Audio is a respected name, too. Audio Advisor has Parasound in-ceilings for sale from $85 to $99 a pair. I think they're worth a look, too.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=PACC65

You may need to call for the prices that I quoted; they are published in their latest sales flier.
800-942-0220


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## azdurango

Ok guys, I went with the Polk audio speakers and sub with the Denon 1912 receiver. Everything should be delivered by 07April. I just want to thank everyone that helped me out. Hopefully the install and setup goes nice and smooth.


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## Jungle Jack

May it bring you years of sonic bliss.


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## RTS100x5

Some notes for ceiling speaker install...... If you have plates in the ceiling it is likely that they are attached to the rafter / joists with an electrical back box....so once your ready (with drop clothes on the floor- its going to get really messy) you take off the plate and carefully remove the electrical back box...I usually use a large flathead screwdriver to pry it loose from the rafter and remove it out of the template hole your going to cut (so it doesn't vibrate on the ceiling). Carefully layout the template and attach it to the ceiling with blue painters tape. IMPORTANT .... Use the template to draw (in pencil no sharpie!) the cutout as close to the rafter/plate hole as possible allowing the flange of the speaker assembly to cover the hole used for the plate ...this can be tricky and you will have about 3/8 of an inch for error...you may have a small hole that needs to be filled with Spackle if you don't get it just right..I know it seems like an easy task but the plate holes next to a rafter are what makes it tricky. I made a crude diagram to illustrate my method...DO NOT over tighten the screws and be sure to align the speaker doglegs with the rafter as they will break off if you contact the rafter with one of them....I use my cordless drill which has a "0" clutch setting so I cant over tighten the screws and if your drill does not have this setting I recommend a hand screwdriver...
Tools
1 drop clothes / vacuum
2 cordless drill with #2 six inch (shorter bit wont work) bit or Phillips screwdriver
3 painters tape
4 drywall saw
5 pencil
6 flat head screwdriver
7 wire strippers

PS be very patient with the speaker grills - hint - get the whole grill started all the way around . then working the edges ONLY try to push the entire grill up at once...working in one side at a time is much more difficult....


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## wgmontgomery

One way to cut down on the mess is to have a friend vacuum as you cut. He/she holds the vacuum nozzle to the area that you're cutting, and it sucks-up the dust as you cut. You'll need to be careful of rafters as mentioned above; check with a stud finder before you cut!! As they say, "measure twice, cut once." 

Also, I've never used one, but Parts Express sells a "hole cutter" that _may_ make things easier: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=360-300


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## RTS100x5

wgmontgomery said:


> One way to cut down on the mess is to have a friend vacuum as you cut. He/she holds the vacuum nozzle to the area that you're cutting, and it sucks-up the dust as you cut. You'll need to be careful of rafters as mentioned above; check with a stud finder before you cut!! As they say, "measure twice, cut once."
> 
> Also, I've never used one, but Parts Express sells a "hole cutter" that _may_ make things easier: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=360-300


The Hole cutters are worthless to put it politely.... and yes the helper vacuuming as you cut is a great idea...If one isn't available I use the speaker box to catch most of the dust as Im cutting...


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