# Audyssey XT Receiver setup tips needed



## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

I have been playing with the Audyssey setup on my Onkyo 805 for almost a year now and still can not figure out the proper way to set it up. 

Is it better to place the mic in one location or more than one location?
How many times do you measure for each location?

Any tips you guys could give would be helpful.

Matt


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14456895&postcount=5701

Multiple mic positions are best.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I did the same three locations for my Audyssey.

I would think it would depend on how many viewers/listeners you typically have.

The main listening position is always going to sacrifice when you add multiple locations.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> I did the same three locations for my Audyssey.
> 
> I would think it would depend on how many viewers/listeners you typically have.
> 
> The main listening position is always going to sacrifice when you add multiple locations.


You cannot use one position unless (1) you listen with only one ear and (2) you keep your head in a vise when you do. Even for a single listener, proper measurements require a sampling of the sites in the listening area. The distribution of those sites might be less restrictive for a single vs. multiple listeners.

Kal


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

You can indeed use one position with no adverse issues. I believe most will fully understand what I did and it has worked fine for me with three different Audyssey receivers. In all cases it worked better for that one position. :T


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> You can indeed use one position with no adverse issues. I believe most will fully understand what I did and it has worked fine for me with three different Audyssey receivers. In all cases it worked better for that one position. :T


Not in my experience (as well as theory).:thumbsdown:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

YMMV :huh:


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

So, you mean you measured three times for the main seat Sonnie? Did you move the mic at all? 

I was thinking of measuring in three spots a foot apart since the chair is almost three feet wide.
Then doing the same thing to the next chair for a total of 6 mic positions. We normally just use the middle two chairs. Will this work? I have not had any success with measuring all 4 chairs. :hissyfit: When I measure all 4 chairs every spot sounds bad. 

HAPPY EASTER

Matt


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I know in one case I had the mic stationary, in another I placed it at the left ear, nose, right ear, as the signal panned around the speakers. I have also held it on top of my head for all three measurements, bringing it down and back up each time. Being a measurement guru... I have tried it about every imaginable way there is to try it.

The best thing to do it try it and see what happens. In _*all*_ of my cases the main listening position was better if I only measured the main listening position. When I moved the mic to other listening positions, the main listening position suffered, which in "theory" it should suffer at least some, although it might not be the case in all setups.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

mdrake said:


> I was thinking of measuring in three spots a foot apart since the chair is almost three feet wide.
> Then doing the same thing to the next chair for a total of 6 mic positions. We normally just use the middle two chairs. Will this work? I have not had any success with measuring all 4 chairs.


I would use a two foot spacing but one might do.


> :hissyfit: When I measure all 4 chairs every spot sounds bad.


 What sort of seats are they? Assuming you used a mic height equal to ear level, is this lower than the top of the seat backs?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> I know in one case I had the mic stationary, in another I placed it at the left ear, nose, right ear, as the signal panned around the speakers. I have also held it on top of my head for all three measurements, bringing it down and back up each time. Being a measurement guru... I have tried it about every imaginable way there is to try it.


Aha! You have to remove your head!! The mic should be freestanding, pointed up, and not moved (except in unusual setups) as the test tone moves from speaker to speaker.



> The best thing to do it try it and see what happens.


Generally, very good advice but there's little sense in repeating the mistakes that others of us have made in the past.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Generally, very good advice but there's little sense in repeating the mistakes that others of us have made in the past.


Yeah... I thought I made a mistake once, but I was wrong. :R

Actually I have never had one particular method of measuring turn out to be the best in all cases. It has always varied from setup to setup and from equipment to equipment. The most effective response I obtained was sitting and holding the mic in front of my face using the XT version in my former NAD T-785. The response was slightly worse with the mic free standing. Three measurements from the main listening position turned out to be significantly better than three measurements from the three seats on the front row. I will see if I can find the REW graph... I thought I posted one showing the difference, but maybe not... I cannot seem to put my finger on it at the moment.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> Actually I have never had one particular method of measuring turn out to be the best in all cases. It has always varied from setup to setup and from equipment to equipment.


Certainly. My major beef about Audyssey instructions is that they imply that the procedure is simple and foolproof, requiring no attention to speaker arrangements, mic situation or proximate objects. 



> The most effective response I obtained was sitting and holding the mic in front of my face using the XT version in my former NAD T-785. The response was slightly worse with the mic free standing. Three measurements from the main listening position turned out to be significantly better than three measurements from the three seats on the front row. I will see if I can find the REW graph... I thought I posted one showing the difference, but maybe not... I cannot seem to put my finger on it at the moment.


OK. These are strange findings which is why I was asking for more information about your seats and arrangements. For example, on another forum we learned a lot, with regard to mic orientation, from the failure reports of someone using line radiators .

Kal


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

So is there a trick I should be using with Maggies? The Audyssey keeps wanting to crossover the MC1's at 150hz. Maybe I have them at to steep of an angle and not close enough to the wall.... The seats are 4 in a row about 4 feet from the back wall and 12 feet from the front wall. 

Matt


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Audyssey is an art in it self. Testing as many positions as possible even if it means placing the mic in the same position more then once will give the best results (yes I have also done so) I have a total of seven seats. Have you tried reading a position in front of the seating possitions?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Funny thing about microphones... how do we know when they are oriented in the same way our hearing is? :scratch:

Matt... I am not sure about the Maggies. They are obviously not reaching the lower octaves to trigger a lower x-over point. I am not sure the angle would matter much, but the mid-bass output would probably be more if they are closer to the wall/corner, however that may effect the mids and highs adversely as well. You could let it set it at 150HZ and change it, but you need to do a before an after response measurement to make sure the change doesn't mess things up response wise after the Audyssey equalizing.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

mdrake said:


> So is there a trick I should be using with Maggies? The Audyssey keeps wanting to crossover the MC1's at 150hz. Maybe I have them at to steep of an angle and not close enough to the wall.... The seats are 4 in a row about 4 feet from the back wall and 12 feet from the front wall.
> 
> Matt


The trick described on the AVS/Audyssey thread had to do with managing the HF radiation pattern from the treble ribbon since it is different from that of the more typical dome or small ribbon. I do not recall any issue with the bass but he was using much larger Maggies.

As for the MC1s, I do not know, off hand, of a solution since the mid-bass from these is greatly determined by placement and they need all the help they can get. (I have used them but quite a while ago and prior to Audyssey or similar products. http://www.stereophile.com/musicintheround/1203round/index1.html) So, while you could change the crossover to 80Hz, Audyssey would not be EQing the 80-150Hz range.

My only suggestion is to play with the positioning of the MC1s or get bigger Maggies.

Kal


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> Funny thing about microphones... how do we know when they are oriented in the same way our hearing is? :scratch:


Irrelevant. They just need to measure the sound at the point where our ears are. Adding anything to mimic the ear would be counterproductive.

Kal


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

Thanks guys!!!!!!!!!! I can not thank you enough for all the help over the past several months! I took all the advice and kind of rolled it up into one. :bigsmile: I took a level and put it on the main seat in the laid back positron so that the seat back was not blocking the mic. I then took 4 measurements starting in the middle then moving to the right by one foot and then to the left by one foot and then back in the middle. It seemed to really help. I will fire up REW and see if it looks any better. 

I am still disappointed in Magnepan. After setting the speakers at the recommend angle of 30 degrees they are still lagging in mid bass. Their on wall speakers do not go nearly as low as they advertise. The MMG-W seems to roll off at 200hz and the MCI's seems to be around 150hz. This to me seems like false advertising. :hissyfit: I hope there MC2's will at least go down to an honest 80hz. I have a call into them and hope they can shed some light on the problem. I REALLY did not want big speakers in the middle of my HT room but I love the Maggie sound.


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

Talked to Magnepan and they were honest. He said that in the real world 150hz is about as low as their MC1 will go.  So, I have to either get bigger Maggies or hope the Mal-x will work up to 150hz. Does anyone know if a Mal-x sounds ok crossed over that high? 

Matt


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

It will probably be okay if it is located front and center. Anything above 80-100Hz begins to be localized, therefore you don't want it too far away from the front speakers. This will also effect any stereo imaging in those frequencies.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

I'm a little confused about measuring different spots ....

For the record my Yamaha uses YPAO (I'm not sure if Audyssey on 805 is different), but with YPAO I can measure every seat and save it in different memories; but I can't measure all seat then average the response of every seat and save it in one memory....Can you do that with the 805???

If you can, it will make sense to take different measurement and then average, but if is like in my case I don't see any benefit on taking different measurements, in that case I will concentrate just in the sweet spot :yes:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

On the 805 Ayddessy averages all of the positions so you get the best sound for all positions. YAPO has the advantage of giving you the individual memories. If you manually over ride Auddessy you get a 9 band equalizer for each channel that you can adjust but you cant have both either its on or its in manual.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

salvasol said:


> I'm a little confused about measuring different spots ....
> 
> For the record my Yamaha uses YPAO (I'm not sure if Audyssey on 805 is different), but with YPAO I can measure every seat and save it in different memories; but I can't measure all seat then average the response of every seat and save it in one memory....Can you do that with the 805???
> 
> If you can, it will make sense to take different measurement and then average, but if is like in my case I don't see any benefit on taking different measurements, in that case I will concentrate just in the sweet spot :yes:


You need several measurement positions in order to deal with only one listening position. First, you have two ears (not in the same place) and you probably do not keep your head in a vise. So, even with one listener, you should measure over a wide area. I encompass the entire couch area with my measurements.

Kal


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> On the 805 Ayddessy averages all of the positions so you get the best sound for all positions. YAPO has the advantage of giving you the individual memories. If you manually over ride Auddessy you get a 9 band equalizer for each channel that you can adjust but you cant have both either its on or its in manual.


That's what I thought ...if you can average the responses; What's the idea of having different readings???...just concentrate in your sweet spot :bigsmile:

What I like about YPAO is that you can adjust just one band on the EQ manually without loosing the rest of the setup :sweat:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Kal Rubinson said:


> You need several measurement positions in order to deal with only one listening position. First, you have two ears (not in the same place) and you probably do not keep your head in a vise. So, even with one listener, you should measure over a wide area. I encompass the entire couch area with my measurements. Kal


Good point, but ....if the AVR (in my case) can't average those measurements and apply the settings to the PEQ, is there any benefit??? ...How can I apply that average to the sweet spot???...or, Shoud I just run YPAO in my sweet spot and adjust to my taste??? :dontknow:


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

salvasol said:


> Good point, but ....if the AVR (in my case) can't average those measurements and apply the settings to the PEQ, is there any benefit??? ...How can I apply that average to the sweet spot???...or, Shoud I just run YPAO in my sweet spot and adjust to my taste??? :dontknow:


Dunno nutin 'bout YPAO. My comments were not equipment-specific. 

Kal


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