# Sub kit or DIY for dual subs for stereo?



## Horacio (Jul 17, 2010)

Hello!! First post here! Been lurking around some, but this is my first post.

My hobby is focused solely on stereo (for now...), and I'm thinking of upgrading my REL Storm III to maybe a couple subs. At the time I purchased the REL it was my first sub and I went with what people said on A'gon and magazine reviews...and later discovered how the sub measured on the test on this website and some opinions that it wasn't so good. Now, 2 years later, I'm reading Toole's book and got intrigued by his concept of dual subs and DSP for stereo where the subs are delayed in the time domain for better room response. Buying another Storm doesn't seem a good idea, nor could I afford it. I remember people here saying some subwoofer kits and some DIY proyects outperform subs like my REL, for the same or less money, so I'd like to hear more about that.

FWIW, I'm handy with DIY, but not very experienced with electronics, although I have engineering background so I sort of understand what's going on...until we get to integrated circuits...then I'm lost! :blink: 

My room is 30 feet long x 15 wide x 8 high. Rest of components are B&W 804S speakers, McIntosh MC275 tube amp, Lamm LL2 tube pre, Rotel RCD1072, dedicated power lines, various DIY room treatments. Room treatments/room response is my main focus now, which is underlying this post.

Looking forward to your feedback!
Have a great day.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Hi Horacio and welcome to HTS! :wave:

DIY subs require a lot of patience but can have a huge payoff if done correctly. There is a DIY section on this site and there is a ton of knowledge contained within as well as a lot of people to bounce ideas off of. Electronics in general can be intimidating but comparatively, subwoofer electronics are not very complicated. That's not to say that they are easy, it is absolutely critical to get the connections right but they are not complicated as long as you pay attention to what you're doing. 

A majority of us use WinISD as the software to design our builds. It can be found here

There is also several links to different types of builds here

It seems like a fairly large space to fill, I would personally go with a pair of 18's or even 21's to move all of that air around but there will be more knowledgable members to show up in a bit and offer all kinds of ideas.

Cheers!


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Horacio said:


> Hello!! First post here! Been lurking around some, but this is my first post.
> 
> My hobby is focused solely on stereo (for now...), and I'm thinking of upgrading my REL Storm III to maybe a couple subs. At the time I purchased the REL it was my first sub and I went with what people said on A'gon and magazine reviews...and later discovered how the sub measured on the test on this website and some opinions that it wasn't so good. Now, 2 years later, I'm reading Toole's book and got intrigued by his concept of dual subs and DSP for stereo where the subs are delayed in the time domain for better room response. Buying another Storm doesn't seem a good idea, nor could I afford it. I remember people here saying some subwoofer kits and some DIY proyects outperform subs like my REL, for the same or less money, so I'd like to hear more about that.
> 
> ...


Exodus Audio and TC Sounds both over excellent driver choices as does the Dayton reference series. If you have a very high budget then the obvious choice is the TC Sounds 18" LMS Ultra which is widely considered the best home theater sub ever made. A next choice could be the Maelstrom 21" or 18" which would certainly blow you out of the water. The LMS-R drivers follow that Then the other Exodus stuff. Then the Epic stuff. Finally hitting the Dayton Reference. 

Of course you will at minimum need several clamps, a 7 1/4" circular saw with a straight edge, a drill and a plunge based router with a jasper jig. For glue I recommend titebond original since it's tested to have the highest bonding strength in wood to wood joints. You will also need very good blades and bits. I recommend holbren.com for bits and forrest brand blades. 

For a circular saw Makita seems to be the top dog atm. For routers the bosch 1617 gets the job done. 
For a straight edge see rockler.com for self clamping ones. I also suggest a shop vac and dust collection attachments. Corner clamps are also very helpful.


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## Guest (Jul 18, 2010)

When I think of Makita and Bosch, I think of professional contractors who use tools every day. While I'm sure they are really good, I'm not sure they are needed for the weekend wood warrior.

I have the Ryobi Model # BTS21 table saw and a Sears router that I got with a gift card. I did a lot of research on the Ryobi and it gets a lot of good reviews from people who use it a lot more often then I do. Mine still works and it makes good straight cuts (apparently a problem with budget table saws). Sears stuff has actually been going down hill for years now and they can be hit or miss, but my router is still working after about three years or so.


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## Horacio (Jul 17, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback!

It's good to know the tools I will need. Not a problem.

It's even better to have a good start with which drivers to look for. So the TC LMS Ultra 18" is the king. Looking at the measurements section I found the shootout with this driver and 75L vs 200L enclosures. The amp used was a Crown CE4000. What other amps would you suggest using?

The TC LMS Ultra is indeed expensive. Couldn't find the Maelstrom within PartsExpress, but I was surprised to see the LMS-R drivers, being the third-best, to be half the price of the LMS Ultra. How about it's performance compared to a REL Storm?

Thank you!


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