# Need ideas for a receiver upgrade, please!



## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

I posted this over at av123 but know some of you guys don't go there anymore... 
____________________________________________

Long story short-- My current receiver does not have discrete analog inputs, nor does it decode DTS. So all my hopes and dreams to enjoy an upgrade to bluray have been shot-- at least for any DTS-based bluray discs such as The Princess Bride (and likely countless others). So, now I dunno WHAT to do .. I may just have to postpone the bluray upgrade for a few years until I can do that AND a receiver upgrade. I may just try and convince my wife that it's worth digging into savings. But I don't want a "cheapy" upgrade. I have Marantz receiver now.. a bit higher cost, but I've been a Marantz fan for many years. I would love to move to separates, but that would likely cost more..

So I let the floodgates open... I am all ears...

And no, I have no budget at this point. (hahaha, that does NOT mean "cost no object") Just looking for ideas...

a bit deflated now,
..dane


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## EddyZ (Apr 10, 2008)

Hi Dane,

I have a Marantz SR6003. Unfortunately I cannot comment on it's performance since it has been in the box since I bought it last year:crying:

I've had Marantz in the past, as well as Denon and Onkyo. The Denon and Onkyo were nice, and the Marantz was a Pro-Logic unit only, no digital, so I cannot compare apples to apples. I'd say stick with what you like because you will most likely be hard pressed to tell any real differences between brands, keeping things in the same price range anyway.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

EddyZ said:


> Hi Dane,
> 
> I have a Marantz SR6003. Unfortunately I cannot comment on it's performance since it has been in the box since I bought it last year:crying:
> 
> I've had Marantz in the past, as well as Denon and Onkyo. The Denon and Onkyo were nice, and the Marantz was a Pro-Logic unit only, no digital, so I cannot compare apples to apples. I'd say stick with what you like because you will most likely be hard pressed to tell any real differences between brands, keeping things in the same price range anyway.


thanks Eddy... I'm currently looking on the Accessories4Less.com site at what Marantz they have ... 

..dane


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

If anyone has any recommendations for a multi-channel integrated amplifier, I'd be interested. Since I have a VP30 now for SD processing (with HD pass-through), I don't need an AV receiver anymore.. And if the bluray player has analog outs (as the Oppo BDP-80 does) then I could just go analog integrated amplifier for sound... if there are any multichannel units out there in an affordable price range...

..dane


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## Cujobob (Feb 12, 2008)

The best bargain receiver I know of is the Pioneer 919. It doesn't have amp outs, but when used within it's wattage...absolutely fantastic sound quality and all of the new formats.

You could probably re-sell it for a large portion of what you paid should you want to upgrade whenever you want to go further.

As I usually mention...if 100 watts from a receiver isn't enough, perhaps consider mains that are more sensitive...as external amps get costly and don't add as much to overall SQ as would better speakers. Whatever you have invested in analog cables could be sold off to invest in a bluray player and HDMI cable (which can be had for nearly nothing). HDMI simplicity alone is worth the upgrade.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

can't seem to find any hits for "panasonic 919" .. can you give a more complete model number?

thanks,
..dane


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

I guess I'm confused as to why you'd need analog inputs since most bluray players either decode the HD audio and send it on to the receiver, or some can bitstream the signal now.

We've been using a PS3 for over 2 years now solely connected to an Onkyo 805 via hdmi. Surround works fine. Admittedly I haven't been keeping up quite as much on the receiver front since we purchased the 805 though, so I'm likely speaking from an uninformed position.


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## Cujobob (Feb 12, 2008)

dane said:


> can't seem to find any hits for "panasonic 919" .. can you give a more complete model number?
> 
> thanks,
> ..dane


WHOOPS...meant Pioneer 919 

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-9...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268789205&sr=8-1

(it can be had around $350 I believe if you look around)


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

Jason said:


> I guess I'm confused as to why you'd need analog inputs since most bluray players either decode the HD audio and send it on to the receiver, or some can bitstream the signal now.
> 
> We've been using a PS3 for over 2 years now solely connected to an Onkyo 805 via hdmi. Surround works fine. Admittedly I haven't been keeping up quite as much on the receiver front since we purchased the 805 though, so I'm likely speaking from an uninformed position.


Well, the way I understand it, either my receiver has to decode the DTS core bitstream track (for bluray's that do not have a dolby-digital track), or it has to accept analog inputs. neither of which my receiver can do. 

I guess another question is how many blurays are ONLY dts-based without a DD track? if not many, I may not be off too badly.. but I was looking forward to the Princess Bride on bluray..



Cujobob said:


> WHOOPS...meant Pioneer 919
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-9...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268789205&sr=8-1
> 
> (it can be had around $350 I believe if you look around)


hahaha.. thanks, will take a look. There are some Marantz's that can be had under the $500 mark from accessories4less.com.... I just don't know how their sound quality would compare with my $1200+ Marantz from the mid 90's ... In some ways (newer) I would expect better, but in other ways (lower cost) I would be concerned worse.

..dane


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## snowmanick (Oct 16, 2007)

With no budget in mind, see if you can pick up one of the Pioneer SC line AVR's (sc-05/SC-07 replaced by SC-25/SC-27 but very similar). These were being blown out at Best Buy's magnolia stores a month or so ago for less than $1k and pop up used on A-Gon from time to time with prices below that. Theya re great sounding AVR's, well built and offer an alternative room correction system to Audyssey that some prefer.


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

I'd probably go the route of finding a decent reciever from a pre/pro perspective that has 7.1 analog outputs then save up for a UPA-5 or something. That way you can get the benefits of separates but without quite the same up-front expenditure.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

woofersus said:


> I'd probably go the route of finding a decent reciever from a pre/pro perspective that has 7.1 analog outputs then save up for a UPA-5 or something. That way you can get the benefits of separates but without quite the same up-front expenditure.


I actually wonder if I could just find a 5ch integrated amplifier? I don't need any video processing... But agree, I don't have a budget, but that's simply because I don't know how much I'm willing to take out of savings for something like this yet...

..dane


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## EddyZ (Apr 10, 2008)

Dane, the last Marantz receiver I had listed at $1,100, and did not sound as good as the Denon or Onkyo. I attribute that to it's dated lack of bass management and no digital capabilities. The Denon was $350, and the Onkyo about the same as refurbs from ecost. The Marantz SR6003 I have listed at $900 I think, but got it from Accessories4less refurbed for less than $700.

Don't judge by price being at least 10 years older of a Marantz. Technology usually gets less expensive for similar performance of only a few years ago.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

What kind of bass management do you need? If it can be handled by the Oppo BDP-83 then you are going to have a straight pass-thru from the analog inputs, but if you need additional bass management the the quality of the ADA conversion on the analog inputs is important.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

EddyZ said:


> Dane, the last Marantz receiver I had listed at $1,100, and did not sound as good as the Denon or Onkyo. I attribute that to it's dated lack of bass management and no digital capabilities. The Denon was $350, and the Onkyo about the same as refurbs from ecost. The Marantz SR6003 I have listed at $900 I think, but got it from Accessories4less refurbed for less than $700.
> 
> Don't judge by price being at least 10 years older of a Marantz. Technology usually gets less expensive for similar performance of only a few years ago.


Thanks for that reply, Eddy... 

I'm looking at the SR5004 at the same site right now.. attractive price, includes the current codecs, but also includes discrete ins AND outs for future stuff...

Spoke to wife a few moments ago, who could tell pretty quickly that I sounded bumed.. she was not totally against a little 'splurge' out of savings.. after all, the entire rest of the HT re-do came in UNDER budget... just not by THAT much... 

Will have to go do some checking of the finances tonight... 

..dane


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

dvenardos said:


> What kind of bass management do you need? If it can be handled by the Oppo BDP-83 then you are going to have a straight pass-thru from the analog inputs, but if you need additional bass management the the quality of the ADA conversion on the analog inputs is important.


I have twin UFW-10's. "Bass Management" ... hahaha.. ANY bass management is better than what my current receiver has ... 

That said, I don't even know about about today's "bass management" to offer an answer. The only bass management I've ever used is a simple crossover at a fixed 100Hz!



..dane


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

The reason I ask is, for example, the Outlaw 970 av/preamp is very good in analog bypass mode (although it does have annoying quirks) so if you went with an external amplifier (which is a big upgrade from a mid-priced receiver IMHO) then you could pick up the Outlaw 970 for cheap. However, if you need to use the bass management then an Outlaw 990 would be a better choice because its ADA conversion is better. I am nitpicking because lots of guys just love the 970 and think I am :crazy:
If you really wanted to go purist you go something like this since you don't need the video processing:
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545

The cheapest method is to go receiver with analog ins and then upgrade to external amp later (as mentioned), but I wouldn't do it. If you are upgrading to BlueRay for the sound, that just doesn't seem the way to go. Again, just my opinion. A lot of guys are going to stereo preamps with HT bypass because getting great two channel sound out of an AVR is an expensive proposition.

edit:
Here is a nice analog option. I ran across the MVC when I was researching analog pre-amps and almost bought it.

```
MVC - 8 channel analog preamp - $399
Emotiva - UPA-5 125W X 5      - $549
--------------------------------------
                                $949
```
If you look at what it would cost you to get a receiver with a true 125W X 5 RMS, the pair compares very favorable.
http://www.sound4sale.com/products/MVC.php
http://emotiva.com/upa5.shtm

Paired with the Oppo BDP-83 which can handle the bass management and speaker delay you would have a very nice system.
http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/




dane said:


> I have twin UFW-10's. "Bass Management" ... hahaha.. ANY bass management is better than what my current receiver has ...
> 
> That said, I don't even know about about today's "bass management" to offer an answer. The only bass management I've ever used is a simple crossover at a fixed 100Hz!
> 
> ...


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

dvenardos said:


> The reason I ask is, for example, the Outlaw 970 av/preamp is very good in analog bypass mode (although it does have annoying quirks) so if you went with an external amplifier (which is a big upgrade from a mid-priced receiver IMHO) then you could pick up the Outlaw 970 for cheap. However, if you need to use the bass management then an Outlaw 990 would be a better choice because its ADA conversion is better. I am nitpicking because lots of guys just love the 970 and think I am :crazy:
> If you really wanted to go purist you go something like this since you don't need the video processing:
> http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=545
> 
> ...


After some thought I think I'd like to try and stay around a humble $500 for now.. That probably means a decent AVR with pre-outs for a future external amp upgrade... 

Now here's my next question-- if I understand it right, I would ideally like an AVR that has HDMI pass-through in OFF/Standby mode. That way, when the AVR is off, the TV will negotiate a stereo downmix stream from the bluray player, and when the AVR is on then the AVR will negotiate a full multichannel stream from the player. 

Is that correct theory, and if so, what kind of AVRs support that?

thanks!
..dane


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

dane said:


> After some thought I think I'd like to try and stay around a humble $500 for now.. That probably means a decent AVR with pre-outs for a future external amp upgrade...
> 
> Now here's my next question-- if I understand it right, I would ideally like an AVR that has HDMI pass-through in OFF/Standby mode. That way, when the AVR is off, the TV will negotiate a stereo downmix stream from the bluray player, and when the AVR is on then the AVR will negotiate a full multichannel stream from the player.
> 
> ...


Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but what is the purpose of that? When I'm playing a dvd, the receiver is always on.


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## Kevin R (Jan 3, 2009)

I just picked up a 6003 from a4less about two weeks ago. I had an Onk 606 and then a 876. The Marantz blows them away in terms of sound quality. The onks seemed more sterile if that means anything whereas the 6003 is much more neutral and subtle things are now heard better. If you can pick one up you won't be disappointed.


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## Mep (Jan 28, 2009)

Ideally the bluray player will decode the DD, DTS, whatever and spit out an unencoded bitstream signal to the AVR. So the AVR needs to decode nothing for bluray, but maybe for an older dvd player or cable but probably not.

I would look for an AVR that has a very good DAC, pre outs and a servicable amp. You don't need fancy video processing, zone B or a coffee maker, though they often throw all that stuff in.
http://www.accessories4less.com/ is a good place to look if you want to do this on the cheap.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

woofersus said:


> Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but what is the purpose of that? When I'm playing a dvd, the receiver is always on.


hahaha.. we have a pretty fancy setup in our house.  everything auto-switches (just turn on the player or one of the many game systems, and video just automagically appears on the screen). And everything also can be run through simply the TV speakers. Karen and I don't want to have to fiddle with a bunch of gadgets just to put on My Little Pony on DVD. That means the audio from the player goes to both the TV _and_ the receiver. When we watch a movie with the receiver, we just mute the TV.

However, it seems none of the Marantz support HDMI passthrough in off/standby mode.  I'd like to stick with a Marantz of some sort, but that lacking feature is a wee bit frustrating.



Kevin R said:


> I just picked up a 6003 from a4less about two weeks ago. I had an Onk 606 and then a 876. The Marantz blows them away in terms of sound quality. The onks seemed more sterile if that means anything whereas the 6003 is much more neutral and subtle things are now heard better. If you can pick one up you won't be disappointed.


I only have 85wpc on my old marantz sr780, so sticking with a similarly powered model (500x) is AOK in my book for now. Did you read up on the x004 models "pop of death" over at AVS? I just read about it last night, so I'll probably be looking at a 5003 from a4less if I can swing it AND a bdp-80..

..dane


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## Kevin R (Jan 3, 2009)

dane said:


> I only have 85wpc on my old marantz sr780, so sticking with a similarly powered model (500x) is AOK in my book for now. Did you read up on the x004 models "pop of death" over at AVS? I just read about it last night, so I'll probably be looking at a 5003 from a4less if I can swing it AND a bdp-80..
> 
> ..dane


To be honest, no not really the feature set wasn't a huge upgrade of the 003's and I wasn't about to pay for a negligible difference. Did I mention how pretty they are too.  Needless to say the 6003 has made me a fanboy..


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

Kevin R said:


> I just picked up a 6003 from a4less about two weeks ago. I had an Onk 606 and then a 876. The Marantz blows them away in terms of sound quality. The onks seemed more sterile if that means anything whereas the 6003 is much more neutral and subtle things are now heard better. If you can pick one up you won't be disappointed.


I totally agree with your statements.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

Also, some guys go straight from the Oppo to a power amp and use the digital volume control on the Oppo. Only works if all your other audio sources are being played through the TV.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

we have a 5disc cd changer that karen loves... otherwise that would be an interesting idea indeed! I was unaware the bdp-80 included an internal volume control... nice!

I'm really lost now. Too many options, and none of them are "just right." uggg...

..dane


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## gonk (Jul 3, 2009)

When I get that way, I find that it's best to step back and try to identify what options you have found that are actually practical, then write them down. The process of doing that may help clear things up.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

gonk said:


> When I get that way, I find that it's best to step back and try to identify what options you have found that are actually practical, then write them down. The process of doing that may help clear things up.


indeed.. and I've spend too much time the past two days on this problem...

options to-date, listed in increasing complication:


stick with dvd for now (oppo 970)
keep old receiver; DTS-based bluray discs must be listened to in stereo
get new receiver and use only dts/dd "core" track via coax/toslink; HDMI to TV only (solves all problems, but does not take advantage of highest quality audio from bluray)
get new receiver, route HDMI through recevier to TV (requires receiver to be on, or a receiver with standby-mode HDMI passthrough)
get new receiver, route HDMI to TV and analog audio from BDP to receiver (solves some problems but creates a new one; no processing/bass management/etc is done by receiver of discrete multichannel inputs)


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

What about a 4x2 HDMI switch?
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10110&cs_id=1011002&p_id=4920&seq=1&format=2


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## snowmanick (Oct 16, 2007)

The new Pioneer VSX-1020-K look pretty interesting for an AVR and is in your price range. I think trying to rig an amp, out board processor, HDMI switch, et al together, while an interesting intellectual enterprise, will ultimately yield worse to no better sound while adding a boat load of complications that can potentially go awry. Simple can be beautiful.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

SnowmaNick said:


> The new Pioneer VSX-1020-K look pretty interesting for an AVR and is in your price range. I think trying to rig an amp, out board processor, HDMI switch, et al together, while an interesting intellectual enterprise, will ultimately yield worse to no better sound while adding a boat load of complications that can potentially go awry. Simple can be beautiful.


Agreed... All I stinkin' want is to add high quality audio support.. Unfortunately that requires HDMI. And unfortunately I've already got a nice HDMI video approach in place. I don't _*WANT*_ the AVR to have to be on all the time.. it's not necessary as 80% of our viewing right now is just Tivo stuff..

Now, if the AVR has to be on just for movie-time, then maybe that's just going to have to be an acceptable compromise and I'll continue my thinking towards a Marantz 5003. The existing system (tivo, game systems, etc) will still function just fine without the AVR.

I did find a decent price on a refurbished Denon AVR-1910 that offers a few more features though.. (including passthrough when in standby) but it doesn't have pre-ins OR pre-outs, so it's somewhat limiting. Though for such a good refurb price, may be worth it.

I just don't know how the denon will sound compared to the marantz...

..dane


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

Too bad you can't take the amp board out of your existing receiver and turn it into a power amp. Well, I guess that is one of the main benefits of separates...


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

dane said:


> hahaha.. we have a pretty fancy setup in our house.  everything auto-switches (just turn on the player or one of the many game systems, and video just automagically appears on the screen). And everything also can be run through simply the TV speakers. Karen and I don't want to have to fiddle with a bunch of gadgets just to put on My Little Pony on DVD. That means the audio from the player goes to both the TV _and_ the receiver. When we watch a movie with the receiver, we just mute the TV.
> 
> However, it seems none of the Marantz support HDMI passthrough in off/standby mode.  I'd like to stick with a Marantz of some sort, but that lacking feature is a wee bit frustrating.


Ah, I get it. I solved that issue with a Harmony One. My wife doesn't have any idea what scene is set to what input or output on the receiver, or what I've named them, or how any of it is connected, and she doesn't want to. She just presses "Watch TV" or "Watch a Movie" and it springs to life. 

Frankly, my TV's built-in speakers are particularly heinous, and I don't ever want to hear them again, so this works out well for me too. I can imagine I'd walk into the living room and see that she's watching something already, and I suggest I turn down the TV and turn on the HT system. Of course without the harmony we would have to use 5 remotes in total for the living room electronics, making the process of turning on the HT system an added complexity which she would not abide on most days. She inevitably would not want to have her contented watching interrupted for me to perform said task, no matter how much I tried to convince her that I couldn't possibly concentrate on the show over the sound of awful. *shudders*


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

dvenardos said:


> Too bad you can't take the amp board out of your existing receiver and turn it into a power amp. Well, I guess that is one of the main benefits of separates...


I know, it really becomes a huge mess. It would be so nice if the Oppo had two HDMI outputs with independent decoders... That of course would cost more, but being able to spit out 2ch downmix with video to the TV and 5.1ch LPCM to the receiver would really make things easier (_for my setup_).

I might just go ahead with the bdp-80 and use optical output (core audio) for now. I just can't decode DTS in my receiver. Too bad it can't spit out bitrate-limited lpcm over optical/coax. Then I could still get 5.1 over optical regardless of the encoding..



woofersus said:


> Ah, I get it. I solved that issue with a Harmony One. My wife doesn't have any idea what scene is set to what input or output on the receiver, or what I've named them, or how any of it is connected, and she doesn't want to. She just presses "Watch TV" or "Watch a Movie" and it springs to life.


I've heard good things about the Harmony... I just don't particularly want all the hifi equipment on just to watch sesame street, y'know? Much less on all the time... uggg, I'm rambling again. sorry.

There are options to consider, including selling the vp30 and getting a higher grade Denon that also includes the VRS, and truly route everything through it. In some ways it would simplify things, and in other ways I think it would worse. Or looking into the DVDO edge which has two hdmi outputs. Only I don't know who negotiates audio. If the second output is "not on" and it negotiates with the primary output, and negotiates with the second output when it's on, then I'm in sweet city and there's my ticket to ride. Need to call DVDO and ask a few questions..

cheers,
..dane


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## gonk (Jul 3, 2009)

dane said:


> I know, it really becomes a huge mess. It would be so nice if the Oppo had two HDMI outputs with independent decoders... That of course would cost more, but being able to spit out 2ch downmix with video to the TV and 5.1ch LPCM to the receiver would really make things easier (_for my setup_).


You could always leave your existing DVD player in place and dedicate it solely to use with the TV, then connect the BDP-80 to the receiver. You'd have to turn on the receiver for Blu-ray, but you'd probably want to in most cases anyway. The BDP-80 has three separate code sets (including a switch under the remote's battery cover), so you can use it and an OPPO DVD player side-by-side without conflict. I did that during beta testing, both with 983H/BDP-83 and with BDP-83/BDP-80.


dane said:


> I might just go ahead with the bdp-80 and use optical output (core audio) for now. I just can't decode DTS in my receiver. Too bad it can't spit out bitrate-limited lpcm over optical/coax. Then I could still get 5.1 over optical regardless of the encoding..


It can put PCM stereo over optical and coax, but that's hardly ideal...


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

dane said:


> I might just go ahead with the bdp-80 and use optical output (core audio) for now. I just can't decode DTS in my receiver.


That sounds like the best plan for now as everything else seems like a compromise. Personally, I hate to spend money on half solutions that I never end up being happy with. Then you can save up for the rest of the solution that gets you what you really want.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

gonk said:


> You could always leave your existing DVD player in place and dedicate it solely to use with the TV, then connect the BDP-80 to the receiver. You'd have to turn on the receiver for Blu-ray, but you'd probably want to in most cases anyway. The BDP-80 has three separate code sets (including a switch under the remote's battery cover), so you can use it and an OPPO DVD player side-by-side without conflict. I did that during beta testing, both with 983H/BDP-83 and with BDP-83/BDP-80.
> 
> It can put PCM stereo over optical and coax, but that's hardly ideal...


Yea... still have a lot to think about before I make any decisions.. Starting to save up for a receiver, but don't like the idea of buying one that is only a marginal step in the right direction..

PCM stereo over optical would be great if that's what went to the TV. And I can do that... And if all the blurays we buy that the kids are interested in also come with DVDs (like most of the disney ones it seems, come with both BD and DVD together), then I can still use source direct and all that jazz... bluray through the receiver, all else bypass the receiver. It _could_ work..



dvenardos said:


> That sounds like the best plan for now as everything else seems like a compromise. Personally, I hate to spend money on half solutions that I never end up being happy with. Then you can save up for the rest of the solution that gets you what you really want.


Agreed. Which is why I'm still trying to consider all options (even the crazy ones) ... The more I research the more I might just keep what we have and accept the compromise for now... certainly is the less expensive approach.  What's silly is that even the "step up" receiver from mine (sr880) from the mid 90's is still several hundred dollars on eBay. I was shocked. It supports DTS and I was thinking "well I could just pick up an older model DD/DTS marantz for now for much less and get HD-audio later." Seems a refurb 5003 from accessories4less is only slightly more than a 10+ yr old receiver on eBay. 

..dane


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

*Update ...*

Posted this on that other site that some of you never (or can't) visit anymore... 

In short, I'm down to between the denon 1910 and the marantz 5003. My options are get the refurb'd Marantz 5003 (without any online coupons) and flip my VP30+ABT102 for a DVDO Edge, but that will force me to wait until late summer or christmas before getting the bluray player.. *ironic, since bluray is the reason for the upgrade!* OR... get the Denon 1910 (with online coupon) and get the bluray player now. That sounds logical. But lingering in the back of my head is, _"but the Marantz would probably sound better..."_

:saywhat:

To be clear- I've had Marantz literally my entire life.... My first setup was my dad's "handmedown" Model 7 tube Pre with Dynakit ST70 tube amp. ( :woo: ) That was replaced with a Model 7T + Fifteen stereo setup, which 12 years ago was finally replaced with my current SR780 surround receiver. I'm a bit reluctant to NOT go with Marantz... Never tried anything else... I'm having a hard time stomaching a move away from Marantz... :embarass:


Anyways, on to the post from the other site.. a good summary..
____________________________________

The field is quickly narrowing with what AVR I will likely purchase in the near future.. The contenders are a Marantz SR5003 and a D3n0n AVR-1910. The D3n0n offers a very specific feature that would really make my life EASY (hdmi passthrough in standby mode)... But I just keep hearing over and over again how Marantz units typically _sound better_ than D3n0n's... My setup includes RS750 Ninja Masters up front with RSC200 Bigfoot Ninja Master also up front, and RSS300 dipole surrounds, with twin UFW-10's (dual mono mode).

Help?!?

A brief comparison:

*Both Units*

Audyssey MultiEQ
6-7th speaker outs can be reassigned as Zone2 speaker outs (removes need for external Zone2 amplifier)
*D3n0n AVR-1910 only*

2010 model receiver
*HDMI passthrough in standby mode* 
Audyssey DynamicEQ
Audyssey DynamicVolume
can apply AudEQ to bitstream *but not to LPCM* via HDMI
Dolby ProLogic IIz
per-speaker crossover settings
*Needs a firmware update (by authorized service center only) for HDMI-CEC fix, will add shipping costs* 
*Marantz SR5003 only*

2009 model receiver
can apply AudEQ to LPCM *but not to bitstream* via HDMI
pre-amp outputs
IR flasher in
DC trigger out
single (global) crossover settings
*Time and again I read that the Marantz units just plain SOUND BETTER.* 


*D3n0n AVR-1910*


















*Marantz SR5003*

















thanks,
..dane


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## Kevin R (Jan 3, 2009)

Dane, as David said on that 'other' site get the Marantz. You will not be disappointed at all. I plan on keeping that sucker for a long time to come. Especially since it has pre-outs.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

I wouldn't buy a receiver without preouts.


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

I 2nd that.


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## Mep (Jan 28, 2009)

preouts lusone:


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## conrack (Jul 4, 2009)

I've been looking at the Marantz 6003. My only concern is the lack of an individual channel crossover. Am I being too picky? Does it matter that much? Should I "settle" for a system-wide crossover setting?

Thoughts and comments appreciated.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

conrack said:


> I've been looking at the Marantz 6003. My only concern is the lack of an individual channel crossover. Am I being too picky? Does it matter that much? Should I "settle" for a system-wide crossover setting?
> 
> Thoughts and comments appreciated.


this IS an interesting question.. as my rears are much smaller than my fronts. And with my center channel now sitting inside a credenza (have to open the doors to watch a movie now), I was planning on setting the XO a little lower (my 12yr old AVR has a fixed XO at 100Hz (!!) ). However I would like to maintain a higher XO of the smaller rears and would enjoy the flexibility of a lower XO on the center if the credenza doesn't treat lower frequencies too nicely...

That said, I've lived with a fixed, all-speaker XO of 100Hz for the last 12 years. 6 of which have been with higher quality speakers (Rockets), roughly 3 of those with Ninja Master XO upgrades to the front triplet.

So, I second the question.. The Denon is still a contender, though as already mentioned, it does have its own set of drawbacks-- no preouts, and non-Marantz.

looking forward to hearing people's thoughts on this question...
..dane


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

*Taking a step back .. a fresh perspective on technology..*

below is a PM I sent someone on AVS earlier this evening.. after writing it I thought maybe I should open it up to wider input...

thanks,
..dane
___________________________________________



audiodane said:


> hey <xx>.. respect your opinion quite a bit.. wanted to step back a momment and get your thoughts..
> 
> (EDIT: sorry for the "stream of consciousness" style of this note! Just goes to show how conflicted I am..)
> 
> ...


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## Mep (Jan 28, 2009)

Well either A) you have the money, B) you don't. It really is that simple. These are all tools and you always be the best tool you can afford, which isn't always the most expensive tool.

Not sure why the video processor is such a big deal for you. The cable/sats have many channels in HD now and the local stations are broadcast in HD. Many blurays upconvert DVD well enough these days. I'm not sure how much the video processor buys you in quality compared to other video processors contained in the bluray player, cable box, and tv. I am sure it is an improvement but by how much? 

Did you already get the BDP-80? Can it be returned? Oppo is known for having good upscaling of DVDs. Maybe sell off the external video processor and get the BDP-83. Use the analog outputs of of the player to go to your existing AVR and use it as an amp. Audio can go straight to the tv via hdmi. And then do what I did, stop watching SD TV. More than enough useless tv on HD now. Then you have a great tool for playing blurays and DVDs and don't have the mess with your audio set up for probably less money.


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## dane (Aug 30, 2007)

Mep said:


> Well either A) you have the money, B) you don't. It really is that simple. These are all tools and you always be the best tool you can afford, which isn't always the most expensive tool.
> 
> Not sure why the video processor is such a big deal for you. The cable/sats have many channels in HD now and the local stations are broadcast in HD. Many blurays upconvert DVD well enough these days. I'm not sure how much the video processor buys you in quality compared to other video processors contained in the bluray player, cable box, and tv. I am sure it is an improvement but by how much?
> 
> Did you already get the BDP-80? Can it be returned? Oppo is known for having good upscaling of DVDs. Maybe sell off the external video processor and get the BDP-83. Use the analog outputs of of the player to go to your existing AVR and use it as an amp. Audio can go straight to the tv via hdmi. And then do what I did, stop watching SD TV. More than enough useless tv on HD now. Then you have a great tool for playing blurays and DVDs and don't have the mess with your audio set up for probably less money.


thanks... quick reply:

- current avr has no discrete in's, or I'd be using them. 

- I agree TV does a decent job of upconversion already; VP30 is actually a very fine auto-input switcher and HDMI converter, and is less power-hungry than running an AVR all the time. (and an AVR wouldn't have auto-input sense/switching) While EDGE does offer fancier processing, the key feature it offers (for me) is the ability to keep the AVR as an "endpoint" rather than a piece of the HDMI chain. EDGE will split off the audio and send to an AVR. Can I do this (reliably) with a splitter? maybe. that's one of my lower cost theories.

- no BDP yet.

cheers,
..dane


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