# YPAO Level Problems: Does anybody has an idea of what happenned???



## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Finally last night I had a chance to tweek my system again ... I bought some speakers to replace my center and a pair of surrounds; I also got a Samson Servo 600 to power my front speakers :yes:

After I hooked everything, I used YPAO to calibrate the system (usually I run the autocalibration two or three times to be sure) ... after YPAO finished I manually adjusted wherever was not right (most of the time is speaker size, distance or crossover); then I used my SPL to check the speaker levels.

I set the master volume at reference "0.0db" to read 75db on SPL ... to my surprise the reading was * "85.0db on all speakers"* in the front row; and *"80.0db"* on the back row :unbelievable: ... to get the 75db I had to use the volume at "-10.0db" and "-6.5" (I have one memory for each sweet spot on each row) :yes:

Does anybody have an idea of what happenned??? ... I was thinking that using the autocalibration will set everything to get 75.0db when master volume is at reference "0.0db", but apparently there was a malfunction or the AVR sets the speaker levels to match the output, and is not necesarily "75.0db @ reference 0.0db" :huh:

I finally ended up adjusting all speakers levels, so my reference is "-10.0db" for each memory :yes:


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

salvasol said:


> I set the master volume at reference "0.0db" to read 75db on SPL ... to my surprise the reading was * "85.0db on all speakers"* in the front row; and *"80.0db"* on the back row :unbelievable: ... to get the 75db I had to use the volume at "-10.0db" and "-6.5"


David...youv'e lost me a bit there..
If you have a reading of 75db on the SPL..with the master volume set at 0db.. that has to be coming from one of your front speakers, in which case you would have had to adjust the volume trim to get that reading..!! :scratch:
Then all the other speakers would be adjusted with the volume trims to read 75db..
I don't understand if you've set them all to 75db..that your'e now getting a reading of 80 -85db.!!


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Prof. said:


> David...youv'e lost me a bit there..


Sorry ...

When I used the reference level master volume at "0.0db" the reading was "85db" on each speaker (we can say that they were calibrated properly, Right???)

To get the 75.0db reading... I had to lower the master volume to "-10.0db" :yes:



> ... Then all the other speakers would be adjusted with the volume trims to read 75db..
> I don't understand if you've set them all to 75db..that your'e now getting a reading of 80 -85db.!!


We can say that my reference volume is not 0.0db ... is -10.0db :yes:

I discovered the high SPL's (85.0db) after I used YPAO, I always double check with the SPL meter to fine tune the response of each speaker :bigsmile:

My surprise was that YPAO used the the reference "0.0" but not with the 75.0db output ... I thought that YPAO will trim each speaker level to the minimum (-10.0db in my case) to output the 75.0db at reference (0.0db) not 85.0db :yes: :dizzy:


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

The same thing happened to me and it was because the amp is sending more power to the speakers than the reciever did so when you have the gain wide open on the amp the reciever cannot correct for it so it just sets the master ref to 0db and with more power you are getting higher db's. You should set the ref level in the reciever back to 0 and then lower the gain on the amp a little at a time to get your 75db setting. I had to turn my amps down to about 3/4 to be able to set ref level with the master at 0db.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

salvasol said:


> Sorry ...
> 
> When I used the reference level master volume at "0.0db" the reading was "85db" on each speaker (we can say that they were calibrated properly, Right???)


Now that makes more sense..but of course 85db. is too high at reference level..



> To get the 75.0db reading... I had to lower the master volume to "-10.0db" :yes:


Why do that..? Why not lower the speaker trims to all read 75db?




> I discovered the high SPL's (85.0db) after I used YPAO, I always double check with the SPL meter to fine tune the response of each speaker :bigsmile:
> 
> My surprise was that YPAO used the the reference "0.0" but not with the 75.0db output ... I thought that YPAO will trim each speaker level to the minimum (-10.0db in my case) to output the 75.0db at reference (0.0db) not 85.0db :yes: :dizzy:


The YPAO is notoriously inaccurate for setting speaker levels..
I only use it to set up initially for delays and speaker distances, and then set all my speaker levels manually with the volume trims to read 75db..


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

tcarcio said:


> The same thing happened to me and it was because the amp is sending more power to the speakers than the reciever did so when you have the gain wide open on the amp the reciever cannot correct for it so it just sets the master ref to 0db and with more power you are getting higher db's. You should set the ref level in the reciever back to 0 and then lower the gain on the amp a little at a time to get your 75db setting. I had to turn my amps down to about 3/4 to be able to set ref level with the master at 0db.


If you haven't got enough adjustment on your individual volume trims..then yes, it would be necessary to lower the gain on the main amp..


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Prof. said:


> If you haven't got enough adjustment on your individual volume trims..then yes, it would be necessary to lower the gain on the main amp..


My trims were all bottomed out so I had to lower the amp gain. I thought he was in the same situation?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

tcarcio said:


> The same thing happened to me and it was because the amp is sending more power to the speakers than the reciever did so when you have the gain wide open on the amp the reciever cannot correct for it so it just sets the master ref to 0db and with more power you are getting higher db's.


I got this part ... but what I don't understand is, Why the AVR didn't cut the front speaker levels to get the 75.0db at reference??? ... (front speaker level were -1.0db/-3.5db, and it can be trimmed to -10.0) :yes:



> You should set the ref level in the reciever back to 0 and then lower the gain on the amp a little at a time to get your 75db setting. I had to turn my amps down to about 3/4 to be able to set ref level with the master at 0db.


Yes it can be done ... but I prefer to have my reference level at "-10.0db" instead of "0.0db" :bigsmile: (I feel that I have that extra volume 10.0db to get to 0.0db and after that I have 16.5db more :unbelievable ... I'm not sure if you saw one of Tony's posts; he's using his reference at "-15.0db"



> I have a setting on my Onkyo that adjusts all the levels simultaneously with one setting. So I* have my master volume set at -15 for reference level output *as when I choose to use my receiver as a two channel setting (pure direct) I want the extra db's I have ocationally run my volume control at +10 or more and wanted the extra headroom Now I sometimes only run at 0db


Maybe you should try the same to take full advantage of your amp's :yes:


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

salvasol said:


> I got this part ... but what I don't understand is, Why the AVR didn't cut the front speaker levels to get the 75.0db at reference??? ... (front speaker level were -1.0db/-3.5db, and it can be trimmed to -10.0) :yes:


If should have. YPAO doesn't know the difference of what else is in the chain, it adjusts the trim levels acording to the SPL present at the mic.

I'm thinking that maybe the internal test tones in the Yamaha are intended to be calibrated at 85db. Have you tried another calibration method like the test tones on a THX dvd? My _guess*_ is that those test tones will register at the proper level.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

thxgoon said:


> I'm thinking that maybe the internal test tones in the Yamaha are intended to be calibrated at 85db.


I don't think so because the first time (before I had the external amp) the reading after the YPAO calibration was correct "75.0db" at reference.:yes:



> If should have. YPAO doesn't know the difference of what else is in the chain, it adjusts the trim levels acording to the SPL present at the mic.


That's what I think ... somehow YPAO adjusted the speaker level to have the same output at reference, and doesn't have to be 75.0db (the speaker readings were 85.0db at reference):yes:



> Have you tried another calibration method like the test tones on a THX dvd? My _guess*_ is that those test tones will register at the proper level.


Not yet, I haven't really got time to play ... I will use DVE to double check the settings :bigsmile: (I also have the THX optimizer to compare) :yes:


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

Prof. said:


> The YPAO is notoriously inaccurate for setting speaker levels..
> I only use it to set up initially for delays and speaker distances, and then set all my speaker levels manually with the volume trims to read 75db..


Interesting.. YPAO has set all my speakers within 0.5db of one another. I couldn't be happier


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

That post was a long time ago..Later models may be more accurate in setting levels..


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