# New Member needs help.



## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Hello, I am a new member and my user name is eagle2, or if you prefer, my name is "Don."

I upgraded my AV receiver from a Yamaha to a Denon AVR 1910 a year ago. I should have purchased the next better system and acquired the superior on-screen programming that used icons rather than lists.It can be awkward and somewhat difficult sometimes to figure out just what should be changed, the manual is another sore point with me as it is quite difficult to find what it is I'm looking for. Another feature that I do not care for with the Denon is the remote control, I get tired of flipping it over to punch all of the other buttons on the back side of the remote. 

My speaker system is a very simple Polk RM8 5.1 system. 

The Denon does a fairly good job of up sampling the video to my 42 inch LCD Toshiba monitor. I'm receiving my video feed from DirecTV. The sound is also good but could be better since I am hard of hearing and the voices on the various audio feeds from the satellite very in their consistency quite a bit.

So I have been wondering about the Onkyo TX-NR708 receiver.It seems that they have cured their heating problems by adding an improved heatsink and fan. So my question is will the on-screen display provided by this unit, and it's hopefully improved remote control, be that much of an improvement over what the Denon provides? Also how does the up-sampling of video and the sound ( music and voice) compare to the Denon AVR 1910?

In advance, thank you very much for your time and assistance in this matter.

Don


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Don, welcome to Home Theater Shack. The TX-NR708 should provide you with a bit stronger amplifier section, more comprehensive On Screen Display, and more.

What I like about the Onkyo is that it offers Preamp Outputs for adding an Amplifier and also offers THX Post Processing. In addition, the 708 is a Network AVR and offers Internet Radio and Firmware Updates over Ethernet.

In truth, the Anchor Bay Video Processing in the Denon is quite good so I am not sure if you will get better video processing in the Onkyo. Moreover, while I think the Onkyo will be more powerful, I am not sure if it is going to be so powerful as to make a massive difference.

If not interested in 3D, Onkyo's TX-NR3007 is available for less than the retail price of the 708 from Accessories4less and is in another league. Then again, it did retail for over 2000 Dollars. This move would add the excellent Reon Video Processor, Dolby Volume which works amazingly well with dialog, THX Ultra 2 Plus Certification, and much more.

If too expensive, AC4L also has the TX-NR1007 for under 700 Dollars and offers a very similar amplifier section to the 3007 including THX Ultra 2 Certification. It does omit the Reon Processing using the Faroudja Processor used in the lower level Onkyo Models.

Both the 3007 and the 5007 weigh over 50 Pounds which is literally twice as much as your Denon or the 708.
The only reason I bring this up is that the 708 is somewhat of a sideways move and I am afraid it will not have the added power you are seeking. However, it does offer the ability to add an Amplifier whereas the Denon does not.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for the quick response Jack. I registered with that other well-known AV forum and they have grown rather snooty and somewhat exclusive, as your introduction to your website references. So nice to find a place where people do not take themselves so seriously and look down on others.

One of the principal things that I'm looking for is ease of use, as comprehensive as possible, but easy to grasp and manipulate. Thus the reference to remote controls and manuals in my first post. I believe Denon is a fine receiver. But setting it up was a real trial, and having to go back and make adjustments with their on screen programming that use lists, is awkward. The remote control is well known to be frustrating to use with its two-sided configuration. I think they have cured some of that now,..... but that is always the case, one must upgrade. And I just feel Denon gets a lot of money for comparable electronics and features, at least this is my impression from the research that I have done regarding Onkyo receivers. Since they have evidently cured their heating problems I would think that they will be able to capture more customers.

So the reason for this change would be, first of all, to not lose any sound quality or video quality that I currently have with the Denon. And to gain a much easier to grasp and understand manual, and a much easier to use on-screen display and remote control.

How do you feel about these issues between Denon and Onkyo?

Thank you for your response.

Don

PS: Oh yes, are the two better quality Onkyo receivers that you referenced last year's models, or refurbished units? Also how reliable and trustworthy is the company that you indicated had them for sale? I am used to purchasing from Amazon.com, J&R and B&H. How does your referenced company compare to these companies, in so far as return policies and warranty issues are concerned? Are they an authorized dealer?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> Thanks for the quick response Jack. I registered with that other well-known AV forum and they have grown rather snooty and somewhat exclusive, as your introduction to your website references. So nice to find a place where people do not take themselves so seriously and look down on others.
> 
> One of the principal things that I'm looking for is ease of use, as comprehensive as possible, but easy to grasp and manipulate. Thus the reference to remote controls and manuals in my first post. I believe Denon is a fine receiver. But setting it up was a real trial, and having to go back and make adjustments with their on screen programming that use lists, is awkward. The remote control is well known to be frustrating to use with its two-sided configuration. I think they have cured some of that now,..... but that is always the case, one must upgrade. And I just feel Denon gets a lot of money for comparable electronics and features, at least this is my impression from the research that I have done regarding Onkyo receivers. Since they have evidently cured their heating problems I would think that they will be able to capture more customers.
> 
> ...


Don,
Accessories4less sells B-Stock and A-Stock, but primarily sell B-Stock or refurbished AVR's. They really have been great to me and many others here and offer exceptional discounts. I purchased a B-Stock 3007 from them a few months ago and could not be happier. I actually went to their location in Orlando to pick it up as I had other business in Orlando. I have actually gone to the place a few times when helping friends in Orlando setup HT's. I have had overwhelmingly positive experiences with them and Returns are never an issue during the Return Window. 

AC4L is an Authorized Onkyo Dealer and there is a 30 Day Return Policy and a 1 Year Warranty on B-Stock Onkyo (2 Years for A-Stock Units) They are not a Sponsor here nor have they ever been and I paid more for my 3007 than what it is currently selling for.

At least with Onkyo B-Stock AVR's, some are actually Brand New AVR's that have since been discontinued that they needed to get rid of. Some are Returns, and some were defective. Regardless, all were tested before being Recertified and I certainly put my money where my mouth is and have no regrets.

After the 30 Day Return Window, if your AVR needs Repair, you will need to deal with Onkyo. If it has been like 34 Days AC4L will probably swap it out, but after several Months of Ownership Onkyo and their Service Centers would be where it would need to go. 

I have used AC4L for years helping friends and family put together HT's that maximize the given budget and have never had a single AVR that has needed a Repair. There have been people here who have purchased from there that have needed Repair. Regardless of being brand new or B-Stock, some AVR's do require repair and there is always a chance of it happening to you.
Cheers.
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for the response Jack.

However I would appreciate getting you expert view on the question.

"So the reason for this change would be, first of all, to not lose any sound quality or video quality that I currently have with the Denon. And to gain a much easier to grasp and understand manual, and a much easier to use on-screen display and remote control.

How do you feel about these issues between the Denon and Onkyo?"

Again Jack, Thanks!

Don

Read more: New Member needs help. - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

A question I keep forgetting to ask is, does the Onkyo brand receivers use icon based OSD? 

In looking at the downloaded manual for the TX-NR708 it did not seem to me to be icon based. Your help is appreciated.

Don


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

Welcome


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> Thanks for the response Jack.
> 
> However I would appreciate getting you expert view on the question.
> 
> ...


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> eagle2 said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks for the response Jack.
> ...


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jack, I just thought of another question for you, or one of the other informed board members.

Do you know of a good video showing the Onkyo GUI OSD overlay and how it works? I would really appreciate seeing this feature working. If no video, then a good written reply will suffice.

Thanks,

Don

PS Also do all the Onkyo units use the same OSD overlay? Use one, and you know them all?


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

I was just wondering since there has been no further reply.

Was it something I said, or did not say?:innocent:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> Jack, I just thought of another question for you, or one of the other informed board members.
> 
> Do you know of a good video showing the Onkyo GUI OSD overlay and how it works? I would really appreciate seeing this feature working. If no video, then a good written reply will suffice.
> 
> ...


Hello,
Sorry about taking so long to reply. I have been insanely busy and am just now getting caught back up here.
As far as Video's showing the GUI of the current Onkyo's, I would give You Tube a look. Another great site is actually a German one, Areadvd.de. Just go to Google Translate and enter that URL. The Reviews there are fantastic and show all of the Menus on the AVR's they test.

I am pretty sure that the GUI is fairly similar on all the Onkyo Models, but have not checked out the 500, and 600 Series personally and the Models below them. All of that being said, I do think Onkyo has a very user friendly interface that will not be difficult to decipher.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Sorry about taking so long to reply. I have been insanely busy and am just now getting caught back up here.
> As far as Video's showing the GUI of the current Onkyo's, I would give You Tube a look. Another great site is actually a German one, Areadvd.de. Just go to Google Translate and enter that URL. The Reviews there are fantastic and show all of the Menus on the AVR's they test.
> 
> ...


Thank you for the response Jack. I purchased the TX-NR808 from Vanns. $725.00 delivered. I will report back regarding my experiences with this unit.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> Thank you for the response Jack. I purchased the TX-NR808 from Vanns. $725.00 delivered. I will report back regarding my experiences with this unit.


Hello,
Congratulations! That is a very good price and I look forward to reading your experiences with it. Sorry again it took so long to reply. Also, we will do everything possible to help you maximize your experience by recommended settings. Things like changing the LPF of LFE from the default 80hz to 120hz is just one of many little things to bring out the best in the AVR.

In the meantime, if you have not already, I would Download the Owners Manual so that you are ready to go as soon as it hits your doorstep.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Congratulations! That is a very good price and I look forward to reading your experiences with it. Sorry again it took so long to reply. Also, we will do everything possible to help you maximize your experience by recommended settings. Things like changing the LPF of LFE from the default 80hz to 120hz is just one of many little things to bring out the best in the AVR.
> 
> In the meantime, if you have not already, I would Download the Owners Manual so that you are ready to go as soon as it hits your doorstep.
> ...



one quick question Jack.

I am assuming that this receiver will not be up-to-date with all of the latest updates. But then again it might. How do I check to see if it has the latest updates? And would you update this receiver before going through the process of hooking it up and trying it out?

Since I do not have a Internet connection currently available in the location where the receiver will be I will have to use the USB port and a thumb drive. Is there anything you can advise regarding this procedure?

Thanks Jack.

I will add this PS. I was checking on some of the equipment you have listed in your signature line. Very impressive, and expensive. I hope you have a dedicated room that can take full advantage of the acoustic material you are able to generate with such a fabulous system. My room is so small that anything beyond what I currently have would almost be wasted even if I could squeeze it into the space. Oh well!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> one quick question Jack.
> 
> I am assuming that this receiver will not be up-to-date with all of the latest updates. But then again it might. How do I check to see if it has the latest updates? And would you update this receiver before going through the process of hooking it up and trying it out?
> 
> ...


Hello,
Updating via USB appears to be fairly easy, but I have done all of my Updates via Ethernet. You could bring the AVR to the Modem and use the On Screen Display on the AVR to get to the Firmware Update as well.

As I have greatly enjoyed the Network Functions on my 3007, I can only hope that you might be able to reconfigure your Home Network where the AVR can be connected via Ethernet.

Thank you for the kind words about my HT. Thankfully, I live in a House and the Room where it is setup is fairly spacious. It is about 15 feet from where the TV and Front Speakers are to where I sit. I have also employed some Acoustic Treatments as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Updating via USB appears to be fairly easy, but I have done all of my Updates via Ethernet. You could bring the AVR to the Modem and use the On Screen Display on the AVR to get to the Firmware Update as well.
> 
> As I have greatly enjoyed the Network Functions on my 3007, I can only hope that you might be able to reconfigure your Home Network where the AVR can be connected via Ethernet.
> ...


Thank you for the reply Jack.

My 808 arrived today via UPS. A small dent in the outer box (thank God they did a good of packaging) The inner box also showed a very small amount of damage, really a slight wrinkling of the sturdy cardboard. The 808 came wrapped in some nice sturdy white material and securely encased within Styrofoam inside the second box. No damage to the unit whatsoever. Good!

Actually the setup went very smoothly and quickly. Having just set up my Denon 1910 slightly less than a year ago gave me good practice in all that's needed to install one of these creatures. The weight of the 808 is considerably more than the Denon. It feels every bit as twice as heavy as the Denon. It's strange that this should be a measurable criteria for quality in receivers, but as you said somewhere earlier in the thread it definitely seems to make a difference. I was quickly up and running and was quite impressed by the sound quality. I don't know that the video section of this unit is any better than the Denon but the sound quality certainly is. It's interesting I only paid $125 more for this unit, a year later, than I paid for the Denon unit.

I had already downloaded the latest updates from the Onkyo website. The main thing you have to watch out for is that they come in a zip file and need to be unzipped. And as the directions clearly state make sure that the zip file is not included on your thumb drive that you're going to use for installation. Fortunately I had taken down the firmware version that was on the unit as it was shipped. Here is the number 1031-0500-0010-2103. This is the number that my unit showed after the update. 1041-0800-0010-2103. 

The update went very quickly, I would say no more than five minutes or so. I made very sure that my thumb drive had been completely formatted and contain no other information on it. I will say that the directions that Onyko gives for this download and update are excellent. If only their manual was written in as basic and fundamental and clear manner as was the update information.

Over at the AV Forum there is a fellow by the name of BatPig, who is the resident expert on Denon receivers. He is so good in fact that he has written his own manual for the receivers. It is very good and helped me a great deal when I installed my Denon 1910 last year. Does anyone know of a person like that who has written a manual for the Onkyo units? it would certainly help a lot to have a more clear and step-by-step manual than Onkyo has provided. It's not that it's a bad manual, it's just that you have to skip around so much to try and follow their directions. And they do not provide an index! I don't know about all the other Japanese receivers but it would seem to me, from my limited experience with two different brands, that somebody could make some money by reinterpreting these manuals for the American market. 

I have run the Audyssey program and it seemed to be helpful. Really I have done so little listening since setting this thing up (It came about 3 PM this afternoon) that I really can't be very precise in my evaluation. I've watched a little TV, played a little music, and observed how my DVD player performed.

I'll report more as I learn more.

Any suggestions for manipulating this new unit would be appreciated.

Don


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Don,
Congrats on your AVR getting there. Indeed Onkyo does a very good job Packaging their AVR's and the giant Styrofoam Pieces usually keep it damage free in transit.

Again, set the LPF of LFE to 120hz. Also, after running Audyssey, I would test each Channel with a SPL Meter as every time I have run Audyssey, it has measured the speakers below 75db's. Also, after Audyssey, I personally cross all of my speakers to 80hz.

Next comes choosing whether you like Audyssey Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ, You have to run the Audyssey Calibration before you have access to these.

I had an ultra late night and am working on a few hours of sleep, so I need more Coffee for my brain to start operating properly. I am sure I am forgetting some things, but will catch up soon.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Don,
> Congrats on your AVR getting there. Indeed Onkyo does a very good job Packaging their AVR's and the giant Styrofoam Pieces usually keep it damage free in transit.
> 
> Again, set the LPF of LFE to 120hz. Also, after running Audyssey, I would test each Channel with a SPL Meter as every time I have run Audyssey, it has measured the speakers below 75db's. Also, after Audyssey, I personally cross all of my speakers to 80hz.
> ...




Thanks for taking the time to respond Jack.

I'll bet you didn't stay up as late as me, I went to bed at 4 AM. Most of my time was spent trying to understand the manual. I don't know what it is about Japanese manufacturers, it must be a pride thing. They just will not hire the right people, who really are USA lifelong citizens, and understand our approach to manuals to write a good one for them.

If anything this manual is worse than the one from Denon. I'll bet some good money could be made by somebody who was very proficient in writing manuals, and understood electronics, to write supplement manuals and had them for sale to all us lame brain audiophile wannabes, to read!

I ran Audyssey. The crossover points are nowhere in the vicinity of your recommendations. It makes me wonder just how valuable Audyssey really is. It seems that the receiver sounded better right out of the box before any of the adjustments were made. I looked all through the manual for some way to revert back to my original position and was unable to find it. Quite frustrating.

Another thing I noticed, and has been complained about considerably over at that other form, is the fact that the Onkyo's seem to require a lot of volume control increase to get adequate sound. I know I can go in and change the way that the receiver indicates your volume level, and that helps somewhat, but when you are ignorant of these kinds of things it always makes you worry that you have done something wrong when you have to crank up the volume settings so high to receive adequate sound levels.

In your opinion what manufacture produces the best manuals with their units? 

I'm ready to turn off Audyssey, if I can just find a place to do it, get a sound pressure meter and set the settings for myself. What do you think?

Don


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

I thought it might be a good idea to add this additional observation since I reran Audyssey for the second time.

I made sure to get all six readings on my 808. I was more careful with the placement of the microphone and the height, as regards my actual ear level, as I set in my easy chair. It seems to have made a positive difference. So a lot of the problems we users are have is our own ignorance and ineptitude...possibly.

One thing that I am curious about that maybe somebody here at this form can answer for me. I have commented previously in this thread about the volume level of the 808. Running the Audyssey again seems to have helped somewhat, but I still notice that I need about -5 dB to have really room filling musical sound. I am running some very small Polk Audio (I believe the number is RM8) I went to this size speaker because of the configuration of my small listening room. It is approximately 2000 ft.³ in size, but a lot of my wall space, where my TV is located, is taken up with a fireplace and a cabinet plus bookshelves. I would say that -5 dB is about 80% of the volume available on my 808. This seems rather odd to me that small speakers of this nature ( running a 5.1 Polk matching system) should require this much volume.

This has been complained about a lot in that other forum with all there traffic. Does anybody have any idea why this is so with Onkyo receivers. Or is this just typical today with our modern multifaceted receivers running Audyssey?

Thank You.

Don


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> I thought it might be a good idea to add this additional observation since I reran Audyssey for the second time.
> 
> I made sure to get all six readings on my 808. I was more careful with the placement of the microphone and the height, as regards my actual ear level, as I set in my easy chair. It seems to have made a positive difference. So a lot of the problems we users are have is our own ignorance and ineptitude...possibly.
> 
> ...


Don,
Audyssey has always Measured my Speakers below the 75db Standard. This is why I always use an SPL Meter after running Audyssey. If you do not have an SPL Meter, I highly recommend picking one up from Radio Shack. They run under 50 Dollars and is something that will last you for years.

Also, you can bump up the Levels for each Source with Intellivolume. It is under Source Setup and you can add gain to where you do not have to set it to -5 for an pleasing sound.

In truth, -5 is a fairly high level for it to be where you need to have it to get "room filling sound", but is still 5 db's below Reference Level. The Volume is setup to where 0 is Reference Level and is the level where Audio Engineers set the Volume to recreate the Reference Level.

What are your Speakers set to? That is what are the levels for each Speaker. Also, if using a Subwoofer, cross all Speakers to 80hz even if Audyssey set them lower.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jack said: "What are your Speakers set to? That is what are the levels for each Speaker. Also, if using a Subwoofer, cross all Speakers to 80hz even if Audyssey set them lower.

Jack being new to the unit and all of its, "in's and outs" I don't know if I have all the information that you have requested. But I will post those findings that I was able to locate.

First under Speaker settings I found the following.

1. Impedance six oms
2. Speaker type normal

Under Speaker configuration I found the following.
1. Subwoffer yes
2. Front full band
3. Center 120 Hz.
4. Surrounds 150 Hz
5. Front wide none
6. Front high none
7. Surround back none
8. LPF of LFE 120 Hz
9. Double bass on ( this seems odd as I only have one self powered bass unit)

Distance specifications seemed about right... they are okay I feel.

Level calibration was grayed out

Equalization setting
equalizer Audyssey

THX audio specifications
THX utility2/select2 subwoofer NO
BGC grayed out
loudness plus ON
preserve THX setting grade out

Audio adjust ( everything look pretty normal except the following)
LFE level all of the readings set to O dB

Is this enough information Jack, or do you need more? If you need more tell me where to look and I will try and retrieve it.

Thanks,

Don


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> Jack said: "What are your Speakers set to? That is what are the levels for each Speaker. Also, if using a Subwoofer, cross all Speakers to 80hz even if Audyssey set them lower.
> 
> Jack being new to the unit and all of its, "in's and outs" I don't know if I have all the information that you have requested. But I will post those findings that I was able to locate.
> 
> ...


Don,
Definitely switch your Mains from Full Band to 80hz and turn off Double Bass. Most prefer Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume so you might want to turn off THX Loudness and not Preserve the Setting across all Sound Fields.

I am surprised Audyssey has your other Speakers set at 120hz for the CC and 150 for the Surrounds. Are the Speakers really small? I am not familiar with Polks, but I would be surprised if they could only play down to 120hz and 150hz. Those are frequencies usually associated with small Satellite Speakers from budget 5.1 Speaker Packages. I would look at your Owners Manual for the Speakers and look at the Frequency Response. 

If they are capable of playing below 80hz, I would set all Speakers to 80hz. And again, I would either borrow or purchase an SPL Meter to make sure your Speakers are calibrated to 75db's. Every time I have run Audyssey my Speakers were set waaay below 75db's and the system sounded weak. After recalibrating the Speakers and crossing all Speakers to 80hz, things sounded profoundly better.

Changing your Mains from Full Band to 80hz should make a big difference. Also, I have a sneaking suspicion that the Speakers are calibrated well below 75db's. Also again change the LPF of LFE from 80hz to 120hz. This is in the Speaker Setup Menu.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Don,
> Definitely switch your Mains from Full Band to 80hz and turn off Double Bass. Most prefer Audyssey Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume so you might want to turn off THX Loudness and not Preserve the Setting across all Sound Fields.
> 
> I am surprised Audyssey has your other Speakers set at 120hz for the CC and 150 for the Surrounds. Are the Speakers really small? I am not familiar with Polks, but I would be surprised if they could only play down to 120hz and 150hz. Those are frequencies usually associated with small Satellite Speakers from budget 5.1 Speaker Packages. I would look at your Owners Manual for the Speakers and look at the Frequency Response.
> ...


Thanks Jack, will do. I did find two more readings I will share with you.

In the quick setup menu (Home button) I find this. Subwoffer level -5.0dB and Center Channel -4.0dB


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Those are just the levels which Audyssey Calibrated your Center Channel and Subwoofer to. I cannot recommend enough going to Radio Shack and grabbing an SPL Meter. It really is an essential thing to have to ensure that you are getting the proper levels. 

Also, many people set their Subwoofers to 80db's. Myself included. The Subwoofer is often a difficult Speaker for an SPL Meter or Room EQ like Audyssey to measure accurately and the added boost has always been a positive change.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Those are just the levels which Audyssey Calibrated your Center Channel and Subwoofer to. I cannot recommend enough going to Radio Shack and grabbing an SPL Meter. It really is an essential thing to have to ensure that you are getting the proper levels.
> 
> Also, many people set their Subwoofers to 80db's. Myself included. The Subwoofer is often a difficult Speaker for an SPL Meter or Room EQ like Audyssey to measure accurately and the added boost has always been a positive change.
> ...



Jack: Thanks.

The Polk RM8 center channel speaker is part of a five speaker package designed for folks like me. With limited dollars and limited space to put their high fidelity equipment.

I believe the package is called the RM 85. The package also included a "free come on" in the form of a basic subwoofer that does a fairly decent job. I thought that having matching speakers would probably be advantageous. And in the main it has proven to be so. For such small speakers they do a remarkable job. For instance the dimensions on the center channel speaker is, height 3.8 inches width 9.4 inches depth 3.75 inches and weight 3.7 pounds.

I found a review of center channel speakers and out of the top 10 my RM8 was rated number 10. Not too bad for such a small inexpensive speaker. Out of these 10 top speakers Polk garnered three of the positions. I just placed an order for there number three rated speaker which is a Polk audio TSI CS 10. It is on sale at Amazon for $100. This is a half-price sale and since it is Polk it should fit in with my other speakers, and since it is rated number three I felt like it should be a pretty good fit in my very limited system. It's a larger speaker as it measures 6.5 inches high by 20 inches wide by 9.75 inches deep. And it weighs considerably more at 16.1 pounds. The frequency response range on the speaker I currently have is 95 Hz 24 kHz. The new speaker will have a frequency response range of 53 Hz to 25 kHz.

Just to give you a feel for the ratings system that I am quoting, their number one rated center channel speaker was a Yamaha NS-C310, number two was an Infinity Primus PC 350, and as indicated earlier number three is the Polk Audio TS I C S 10.

I changed the cross over frequency on all of my speakers, except the subwoofer of course, to 120 Hz. I also made the changes to the sub-woofer you suggested. I am currently playing a reference CD that I acquired many years ago that was utilized in checking car stereo systems. So it is a pretty eclectic mix of material to stress music systems. 

I probably will not have my new center channel speaker for at least a week as I decided to take the free shipping from Amazon as they wanted $16 to ship this hundred dollar speaker. I don't know whether you would call me frugal, economically intelligent, or just plain cheap. But I just do not like to give money away when it is not necessary. Given the fact that I have lived with my current speaker set up for almost a year now, I felt like that I could extend that period of time for another week and save 16 bucks.

I will add this about the Onkyo 808 receiver.

I definitely can tell a significant difference in quality over my Denon 1910. The dialogue is much more clear and the sound has a much more transparent feel to it. I have checked the unit for heat innumerable times, and it very seldom tends to run more than slightly warm. I have stressed it several times and during those times it did become more warm, but never what I would call hot. I believe the increased heat sink and the two fans ( that only turn on when necessary) that Onkyo has installed in the new 808 have cured Onkyo's heat problems. 

I go back to the days when I owned a 40W per channel Macintosh amplifier. In those days high end gear was rated at full power into two channels ( that's all there was back then) from 20 Hz to 20 kHz,(we used to call these cycles) and as best I can recall it was at plus or minus .05 dB. so they were really made out a lot of iron, big fat tubes, and weighed a ton. This is something that makes me believe that Onkyo builds good amplifier sections because they weigh so much. It's hard to beat the laws of physics. I do not think that Onkyo tries to beat those laws. They seem to the use old-time approach to building their amplifier sections. And for me at least, given my very limited experience so far (reading all that I could and some very limited usage) I would have to say that Onkyo receivers are among the top-tier, particularly given the features that they offer & very competitive prices that you can find on the Internet.

I'll report more later.

Again Jack, thank you for all your considerate help.

Don


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Don,
Great call on upgrading your Center Channel. Its importance cannot be overstated and purchasing the best you can possibly afford is the way to go.

After you bringing up that your Speakers are a budget package, 120hz sounds like a good crossover point. I would guess that having all of your Speakers set there rather than your Mains being set Full Range is giving you far greater dynamic range. I would again recommend buying or borrowing an SPL Meter to make sure all of your Speakers are truly Level Matched.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eagle2 (Jan 6, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Don,
> Great call on upgrading your Center Channel. Its importance cannot be overstated and purchasing the best you can possibly afford is the way to go.
> 
> After you bringing up that your Speakers are a budget package, 120hz sounds like a good crossover point. I would guess that having all of your Speakers set there rather than your Mains being set Full Range is giving you far greater dynamic range. I would again recommend buying or borrowing an SPL Meter to make sure all of your Speakers are truly Level Matched.
> ...



Jack I am confused regarding your statement here, "I would again recommend buying or borrowing an SPL Meter to make sure all of your Speakers are truly Level Matched."

What do you actually mean by, "Level Matched" it is my understanding that Audyssey will purposefully have different levels of sound from each speaker based on your position in the room relative to the speakers and taking into account the room acoustics. Doesn't SPL stand for *Sound Pressure Level*? and wouldn't changing each speaker to have identical sound pressure levels defeat the purpose of Audyssey?

Confused.

What am I misunderstanding?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

eagle2 said:


> Jack I am confused regarding your statement here, "I would again recommend buying or borrowing an SPL Meter to make sure all of your Speakers are truly Level Matched."
> 
> What do you actually mean by, "Level Matched" it is my understanding that Audyssey will purposefully have different levels of sound from each speaker based on your position in the room relative to the speakers and taking into account the room acoustics. Doesn't SPL stand for *Sound Pressure Level*? and wouldn't changing each speaker to have identical sound pressure levels defeat the purpose of Audyssey?
> 
> ...


Don,
In theory, Audyssey should set the levels, but it has been my experience and many others that it almost universally Measures the levels too low. It would explain why you needed to raise your volume to -5 to get a satisfactory level.

And no making sure each speaker level matches has nothing to do with what Audyssey does in terms of correcting anomalies in your Room. Level Matching is just part of the Speaker Setup routine. With Audyssey you do want all levels to match as this is essential for getting the most realistic HT experience.
Cheers,
JJ


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