# Looking for input and suggestions



## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

I'm currently building our home, we are a week out from drywalling.
I have included the plans of the downstairs theater room.
I have ideas that Ive seen in other theater rooms which I would like to implement.
Wall treatment is my main concern.
I have plans to make full wall acoustical panels from:
32" x 8' x 5/8 waffer board
1/2" poly batting
covered in micro fiber.
These panels will be alternating between flat panels and raised simular to
_____/-----\_____/-----\_____

The ceiling will be acoustical panels from homedepot painted black.
The room will be sheetrocked before all the treatment is applied.

Screen wall (componet room) will be covered in dull black material and 1/2" batting. Insolated with ridge foam OC703.
Componets 
Rotel 985
Emotiva LCM1
Onix Rocket
RSC200
RS750
rears; waiting for a deal
Subs: AE 18" IB
sub amp Peavey PA 2000



Thanks for the help and ideas

Parrish


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Welcome to the forum.

I don't want to rain on your parade but you really need to rethink your treatment plan. First, you're covering way too much surface. Secondly, you're covering it in things that will only deal with the upper mids and high frequencies and completely ignore the dialog range and deep bass.

You have a nice set of equipment there - just want you to get the most from it. Is this a dedicated space? Any chance of moving the door so you're not killing one of the front corners?

Bryan


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

Thank you for replying Byran,
No rain on my parade,, I'm looking for information, so whatever is suggested is good.

The space is already framed, and I believe fairly concrete. The door to the one side, was created by the IB sub space and the stairs to the right.
Maybe I could frame in some space to place the front speakers in the component room. I'm just not sure what that would do the the acoustics of the speaker, and I want to maintain the largest amount of screen area I can.
This is a semi dedicated space, we have people over for board games/cards and UFC fights, hence the tables and the space to the upper right which is a BAR for those which are losing or crying over their favorite fighters lose.

If you have suggestion on wall treatment I'm all ears, Like I said I saw this wall treatment in another theater room and I thaught it looked very nice.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Sounds good. Don't kill yourself over the door. If this is a dedicated space then we can treat it appropriately. I was thinking maybe that was opening to a dining room or something off limits.

Think about MAYBE half the side wall surfaces in 1" thick absorbtion. Front wall in 2". Back wall in 2" with an FSK facing on it. Corners with THICK absorbtion floor to ceiling to balance things out.

Bryan


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

Bryan do you have suggestions of what to use for absorbtion material? Are we talking OC703.
For the back walls, OFI - 48 FSK BOARD?
I take it its a given that one should use Green Glue of all studs and for dry wall, and that I should double layer the dry wall (one applied horizontaly the other vertically with green glue layer between.)

It would be nice to have a general so it your self guild. 

The whole dead/live space, acoustical absorbtion, bass traps, prepping for high mids and lows, has gotten me all confused, and not sure what to do.

If you know of and good guild lines to follow, I'm all ears.

Thanks again for the help,
I will post some pics tomarrow of the room as is currently.


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

bpape said:


> Sounds good. Don't kill yourself over the door. If this is a dedicated space then we can treat it appropriately. I was thinking maybe that was opening to a dining room or something off limits.
> 
> Think about MAYBE half the side wall surfaces in 1" thick absorbtion. Front wall in 2". Back wall in 2" with an FSK facing on it. Corners with THICK absorbtion floor to ceiling to balance things out.
> 
> Bryan


Bryan,

Do you mean 50% of the entire side wall surfaces (floor to ceiling?)
Anything wrong with using more thickness (like 2 or 4") to have more effect on the voice and bass area?
Same question for the front and rear walls.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Belzarrath said:


> Bryan do you have suggestions of what to use for absorbtion material? Are we talking OC703.
> For the back walls, OFI - 48 FSK BOARD?
> I take it its a given that one should use Green Glue of all studs and for dry wall, and that I should double layer the dry wall (one applied horizontaly the other vertically with green glue layer between.)
> 
> ...


703 is good for the side walls. Same for the rear. When you change not only the density but the stiffness of the material under the FSK, you change the membrane effect. 

GG on studs prior to drywall is not recommended. Even the manufacturer says this. Just use it between layers of drywall. You don't even have to do the horiz/vertical thing as long as you don't overlap seams.

Every room needs:

- Broadband bass control
- Dead front wall to eliminate reflections from the surrounds clouding the main front soundstage
- Side wall early reflection control.

After that, it's a matter of what to use where and how much to deal with boundary issues, nulls off the rear wall, and general decay time.

Bryan


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Blaser said:


> Bryan,
> 
> Do you mean 50% of the entire side wall surfaces (floor to ceiling?)
> Anything wrong with using more thickness (like 2 or 4") to have more effect on the voice and bass area?
> Same question for the frot and rear walls.


IF you're doing all cloth walls, it's common to do from the floor up to 48" with absorbtion and leave the rest live - just cloth covered. You may have to go higher for part of it to catch the reflection points for a rear row on a riser or if your speakers (front) are mounted high.

Side wall control from a purely reflection standpoint can be dealt with via 2". 4" can be used to extend their depth of absorbtion for sure but if doing that, you just need to keep the rest of the room in mind so we don't overdo any one range. The idea is to have a well balanced absorbtion scheme across the entire spectrum which results in controlled reflections, proper decay time distribution, and proper bottom end control. 

Realistically, vocal range goes down normally to maybe 150Hz for a pretty deep male voice. 2" or 2" with a small gap behind will deal with that pretty well considering how much of it you're going to be using to catch all the side wall reflections.

Bryan


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

I must be misunderstanding something. Isn't thicker synonymous of a wider spectrum of frequency absorption? What's wrong with using (for ex.) 6" or 8" material for the side walls and front/rear to have smoother bass response as well (just a question )


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

There's nothing wrong with it provided that's what's required to balance the room. It's difficult to do but you can unbalance a room toward the bottom end also - not to mention simply giving up a lot of living space.

Also, consider that most of the deepest axial room modes that require deeper absorbtion are in the length dimension. The width is generally narrower hence higher primary modes. Doing the front wall too thick can potentially upset the ability to 'tune' frequency response based on speaker to wall distance and taking advantage of SBIR. That leaves the rear wall. 

Now, with that said, I generally prefer to leave the surround field a bit more lively. So, if we can do thicker absorbtion in the rear and then face it with FSK to reflect some of the upper mids and highs (not to mention acting as a membrane in terms of bass absorbtion), we can have the best of both worlds.

It's hard to ever just lay down rules of thumb that always work because every room is different, every layout is different, speaker and sub placement possibilities are different, etc. All I laid out above was a general set of things that usually work well and will get you the 80-90% solution in most rooms most of the time. 

If you want an exact solution, that's where a competent designer comes into play to look at the specifics of the room and work with you to come up with the best solution that fits the aesthetic, functional, technical, and budgetary constraints.

Bryan


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

Sure Brian...Just asking for the sake of learning. What is FSK by the way?


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

Here is a link to what I have found.
http://www.ofigroup.com/can/can_html/FSK48En.htm
I am an extreme beginner in HT, and unfortunately I do not have the time to learn as much as I need to build a HT room. Working 2 jobs, new child and building a home is taking much of my time.
This unfortunately will have to be a quick learning situation, (follow what other tell me to do) to get the best room I can.


Sorry Guys I got to bussy sealing the foors, and connection my radiant floor manifold and forgot to take picture of the room in its current state. Ill try to remember tomarrow.


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

Finally I got time to take pictures.
Sorry for the delay, but we had wiring issues which was holding up the insulation.
Here are the Picture of the theater room as we stand today.

Screen


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

back wall


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

bar
Sorry for the mess,, If I have time Ill take picture with it cleaned up.
I guess my next step is to put 703 in 1/2 up the side walls, and full for the screen wall.


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

Ok I'm at a impass, 
I really do not want to do a double wall. 
So whats my best approach to get my room acoustically prepared.
Can I put oc 703 in with the insolution?
I do not care for the insolution factor sence the exterior of the wall is insolutated r13.
I guess if I can, my next step is to double sheet rock with GG making sure no seems over lap.
Then I would like to do full length wall covering of fabric, bottom half with .5" poly batting top half no batting.


I hope this sound ok, 
Thanks for any input guys.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Since you didn't use DC-04 clips to isolate the walls from the structure above, double drywall and green glue are the minimum I'd do. The next step would be to use RSIC-1 or RSIC-V clips and hat channel on the walls and ceiling. That will cost you about 2" per surface or less depending on which clip.

If you're going to do the iso thing, you need to carefully assess what you've done with:

- Outlets
- Switches
- Lighting
- HVAC

All of those are 'holes' in the room that defeat soundproofing. If you're not going to address those from an isolation standpoint, then pretty much save your money on the Green Glue. Makes no sense to spend all that money and then have the equivalent of a 2'x3' hole in the room - some of which is tied to other parts of the house via ductwork.

Bryan


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

Once again thank you for your input.
Lucky I have no air ducts in my house, (radiant floor heating/cooling) but the light/outlets are a problem. Its sounding like, I should either put the DC-04 clips in (tearing down the studs) or forget the sound proofing. As you can tell I'm not willing to lose 2" per surface. 
I'll spend more time on which direciton to go.


THanks again.


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## Dennis (Jun 13, 2008)

With no cooling, you're going to have a hot, stuffy room. Think about some kind of cooling or ventilation.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That's the beauty of the DC-04's. It decouples the whole wall from the structure above. 

Bryan


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## Belzarrath (May 30, 2008)

There are windows in the basement, so ventalization shouldn't be a problem. The basement stays pretty cool, our average temp has been in the 90s for the last two weeks, the temp in the basement (insolated) has stayed a nice 54. That can raise quickly with serval people and a projector running, but there are compromises, I have a good sealed home with cellulose spray insoluation. The windows are vented, for air circulation. Its an issue of energy conservation, solar water heated, and solar gain rooms. At times things must be sacroficed, air conditioning, vents, and money for a better way of living.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

You'll still need to exchange air into and out of the room somehow. You can try venting into and out of another room in the basement via a massive duct system with at least 3 90 degree bends in it and with some length between each bend. Flex duct is placed inside. Use a fan at the far end of teach duct.

Bryan


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