# Finally going HD



## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

Hi everyone. I'm finally upgrading my HT to HD. I'm pretty happy with my surround sound for the moment. Do you guys have an recommendations for a 50" tv for a living room? It will be used for games tv and movies, but movies are the most important. The room doesn't have the best light control so I do get some glare, but not too much at night. The couch is about 8'-9' from the screen. I'd like to keep it under $2k, what do you suggest?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I would recommend either Pioneer's PDP-5020 or PDP-500A. Either one of these will be an absolutely fantastic display. Pioneer has stopped manufacture of their industry leading Plasma's, but these are both available for the time being. The 5020 should be available at a steep discount at Best Buy. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Games and glare spell LCD to me.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree LCDs have less glare issues, although Plasma has greater contrast in most cases and can be found much cheaper than LCD for the size. Plasmas are also much heaver than LCD so if your going to wall mount them you need to make sure the wall is re-enforced.


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## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

I was planning on a stand that has a tv mount on a column like this one:










which has a 165lb capacity so I'm not too worried about the weight.

The glare in my living room is not too bad so I'd probably rather have the better contrast and wider viewing angle of plasma, but I'm still open to suggestion. Movies are most important but I do want to make sure that there isn't terrible input lag for games. If that means a game mode, even better.


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## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

I see I don't have the ability to include images. The stand I was referring to is the Walker edison v60mwf.


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

I game on my Pioneer Elite plasma with no issues at all. During the daytime the TV room is pretty bright and I have very little issues with the glare department.

If you are a hardcore gamer, plasmas will also provide less motion lag compared to LCDs, too.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
My experience with Pioneer Plasma's mirrors Jon's in regards to using with video games.
The Pioneer 9G's really are spectacular displays. Especially with movies which seems to be the most important aspect for the OP.
Cheers,
JJ


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## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

I'm now leaning towards the 500M. Found it at a local place in my price range. Any downsides?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I honestly believe it is one of the best displays in the World. Many believe the 500M actually looks better than the 600M. There is a burn in procedure for Pioneer Plasma's that make it resistant to burn in from video games. I will try to find the articles and procedures for that.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

Rookie here-whats a 9G- isn't the 141 9G as well as the 600m?


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I honestly believe it is one of the best displays in the World. Many believe the 500M actually looks better than the 600M. There is a burn in procedure for Pioneer Plasma's that make it resistant to burn in from video games. I will try to find the articles and procedures for that.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I think the concept here is not so much that the breakin procedure makes it more resistant, but is designed to put benign images on the screen with similarly benign picture settings to allow you to quickly get past the panel's infant stage where it is more susceptible. This can be done with just normal viewing, but the key is benign images and settings, such as staying away from much letterboxed/pillarboxed content, moving tickers, and other static images such as HUDs from gaming... for the first 100-200 hrs.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

So MD TopGun said:


> Rookie here-whats a 9G- isn't the 141 9G as well as the 600m?


Hello,
9G is Pioneer 9th generation Plasma Panel. The 600M was originally a ROW (rest of world) model that Pioneer has now made available to the US. It was initially aimed at the Custom Install market. 
The M series have gotten rave reviews and generated a great deal of enthusiasm while being cheaper than the Elite models.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> 9G is Pioneer 9th generation Plasma Panel. The 600M was originally a ROW (rest of world) model that Pioneer has now made available to the US. It was initially aimed at the Custom Install market.
> The M series have gotten rave reviews and generated a great deal of enthusiasm while being cheaper than the Elite models.
> Cheers,
> JJ


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Ayreonaut (Apr 26, 2006)

I second the recommendation of the *500M*. 

Its probably the best direct view monitor in existence today, at any size.

Just get it.


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

Its hard to go from 65" to 50 "---have a large family room


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

I agree the size difference might be tough to swallow, but the image quality improvement will be WELL worth it. If you really don't want to drop down that far, just go with the 600M or the 151FD or 141FD!

This is the first time in the last decade that I've kept a television for more than a year. It's been a year and a half since I first got my Pioneer 151FD and I still haven't found a TV out there that has impressed me as much.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

So MD TopGun said:


> Its hard to go from 65" to 50 "---have a large family room


Hello,
Well, if you want to keep the same size, Mitsubishi still makes 65"-73" DLP Microdisplays for less than the Pioneer's. I do not believe it to have nearly as good of an image, but you could get a 73" for the same money and will still look quite good if properly calibrated.

If the room you are setting up your HT is light controlled. That is you can make it completely dark, you could also get a front projector and screen for 2000 Dollars. Then, you would have a huge screen.

Unfortunately, many people do not have rooms that can be made completely dark or would face fierce resistance from the Wife/GF to make a room that dark to set up a completely dark room. However, if you can, having a 100"+ display can be quite a revelation.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

i am sold on the Pioneeer --- my wife hates the 151- the speakers on the end--- so its the Pro 141FD or the 600m with the patch for ISM modes--- but which one??????


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

Robert,

Don't discount the 151 yet! The speakers on the side are OPTIONAL to put on! I don't because my wife and I agree with your wife about them being ugly!


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

That's interesting- did not know that-- so now what--- do the 600 with ISf patch; 141 or now the 151--- who has best picture -- watching movies -- not much of gamer-- can I get some pro's and con's on these 3


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The M Series is considered the newest of your choices. Many believe it to be the best and pretty much a clone of the flagship Signature. Moreover, it is usually the best deal as well.

There really are not any cons when comparing these sets. 

I would honestly go with the 600M personally. However, if you can get a better deal on any of the others, there is no reason not to go that way.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

ok- but if I go with the 151-- (as long as speakers on end come off) -then I do not need patch ; have more HDMI outlets and it come with stand which is $400 --(also easier to sell with speakers if I see that I wantdifferent model)
would I be satificing picture quality with 151Fd then the 600m


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It would be arguable that you were losing PQ by purchasing the 151. Again, it is a fantastic display. Furthermore, you would also get a 2 year warranty as opposed to a 1 year warranty. This is in addition to having twice the HDMI inputs and having speakers.

All the same, most who purchase Pioneer Plasma's also have a full HT and use their receiver for source switching and sound. In this case, only having 2 HDMI inputs is not an issue. Nor is not having speakers.
The general consensus is that the 600M is a clone of the 141 without the 2 year warranty and available at a much cheaper price.
Cheers,
JJ


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## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

BTW, I ordered the 500M. I'm prepared to be impressed. (well, after break-in and calibration, that is)


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Congratulations. I really think you are going to love it. I thought you were going to get a 60" version?
All the same, there are a great number of people who believe that the 500M has a better picture than the 600M and is truly the finest display money can buy.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

I think I am going with 600m with the ISM patch(again-what does this do)- I have very simple set up
Bose speakers and getting blu-palaer-- so 2 HDMI outlets enought --correct?
what is best blu-ray to get for the 600m


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## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

The 600M is not in the budget and I don't think I need that large anyway. It was TopGun here that posted about wanting the larger size.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Dthree, my bad I was multitasking while responding to this thread. Congrats on your 500M.

Top Gun, the ISF patch unlocks the ISF (Imaging Science Foundation) mode that is available on the Elite models and the M Series outside the USA.

The ISF Mode is designed for TV Specialists to come to your house and custom calibrate your display to maximize the performance. They use specialized instruments to analyze the color decoder and grey scale to give you a textbook picture. As a corollary, these adjustments usually maximize the lifespan of the display along with giving you the best possible picture. 

The ISF Mode makes it easier for the Specialists to access and get the best out of your display.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

Excellent. U guys r the best
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

So what is controlcal
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Controlcal is an interface for Pioneer's Plasma's which grants access into the ISF/Service Menu for Pioneer models without the ISF Mode which is the case with the US version 500/600M and the PDP-5020/6020. It works via the serial/RS232 interface.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

so-- 600m plus patch=141FD sort of---is putting on the patch plus labor going to cost more than the 141 to begin with


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The 600M should end up being cheaper. Many who purchase the 141 have someone come out and do the ISF Calibration. Just because it has the ISF Mode does not mean that someone does not have to come out and does the 10 step color calibration and locks the settings in.

All the same, none of this is required. With a 30 Dollar Calibration Disc, you can get a wonderful picture.
While a ISF Calibration will bring out the best in your display, it will look great without it.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

Everyone wants the best they can get it the budgets fits-and I have been savings up for his--
where would i go to discuss the Bose Lifestyle HT System and getting a blu-ray to put everthing together


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
We can continue on this thread if you wish. Or you can create a thread in the Blu Ray Player and Speaker Forums.

Do you currently have a Bose Lifestyle System? If you do not, there are a multitude of options that will provide you far greater sound quality and value.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

I was just reading some threads---Bose does nor appear to be worth the money-please suggest

sound system and blu-ray


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
How much money are you comfortable spending on speakers and Blu Ray Player?
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

$2000 for system and maybe $500 for Blu-ray-----the wife has a problem with large speakers-I have a sony 5.1 system now with DVD in one speaker-5 feet high


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

For $500, for a blu-ray player I would not go with anything but the Oppo Digital BDP-83. There is no equal in or near the price range.

As far as speakers, best suggestions I can give you are to look up internet direct websites for speakers. They will give you more bang for the buck. Axiom Audio, Aperion, Hsu Research, SVSound are a few off the top of my head.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

With that budget, you won't have a problem. Oppo Blur-ray player is $500.

For speakers, figure $1200-1400. You could go in-walls if youwant zero footprint, but there will likely be a sound quality compromise. Have you taken a look in the existing threads in the Home Theater System recommendations?

For AVR- $600-800 should get you an Onkyo with all the features you need.


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

thanks-all ideas help-keep them coming


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I would recommend the OPPO BDP-83 Blu Ray Player. It is truly an unassailable player and offers lightning fast load times and excellent DVD performance in addition to sterling Blu Ray perfromance.

Speakers wise, SVS offers some excellent packages and are very well made speakers. Their Subwoofers are exceptionally good. I would also recommend looking around locally for Paradigm Speakers who make excellent speakers as well.

Speakers make the biggest impact in the overall sound of your system. There are many great companies out there. I highly recommend auditioning as many speakers as you can. 

While companies like SVS are ID, (Internet Direct) they offer amazing value because of this and have been reviewed extensively by Professional Reviewers and really do sound great. They also offer generous return policies should they not meet your expectations.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Funny. I was writing my response when a friend came over. During which time, Marshall and John also recommended the OPPO. It really does define the segment by virtue of its price/performance ratio.
Cheers,
JJ


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

Excellent-thanks


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## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

Got the 500m yesterday. Even without calibration the thing looks fantastic. I've never seen my DVDs look so good. Going to have to get a bluray player now.


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

I ordered the 600m--- Does anyone know if the rumors of these models running hot and having a Buzz is true


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Plasma's run somewhat warm, but it is nothing to be very worried about. As to buzzing, this is a common complaint. Though I have usually I heard it from Salesmen trying to sell their LCD Model over a Plasma. That being said, some do hear a slight buzzing, but the amazing good of Pioneer Plasma's far outweighs the bad. Most do not hear buzzing.
Cheers,
JJ


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## dthree (Mar 13, 2008)

I can hear it when I put my ear next to the fan. It doesn't get any hotter than an LCD monitor I have.


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## So MD TopGun (Nov 16, 2009)

Getting the 600m tomorrow- how do I look for cracks(flashlight)


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
While there have been reports of damaged 500/600M's, the numbers are pretty low. Mostly, look for damage on the shipping carton. If the box looks terrible, inspect it before signing for it. More than likely, you will be fine.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

Cracks? Cracks as in screen damage would be noticeable from the get-go. As far as "flashlighting effects" if I am not mistaken that is only an issue with some CCFL tube-lit LCD TV's.

Let us know what you think of the 600M when you get it (today, right?)!!!

Are you planning to get it professionally calibrated? I would highly consider it if I were you.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Our Best Buy currently has ISF calibration on sale for $199.99 which is a very good price.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

I personally don't care for the Best Buy calibrations. Too hit or miss. While some of their guys are well trained and care a lot, some are missing one or both of those important qualifications.

Like hiring any contractor, I wouldn't advise blindly hiring the guy that's just the lowest cost, or most convenient.


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