# My first awesome speaker build



## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

The woofer is an Eminence Delta Pro 12A
Specifications: *Power handling: 400 watts RMS *VCdia: 2.5" *Le: 0.84 mH *Impedance: 8 ohms *Re: 5.71 ohms *Frequency range: 52-4,500 Hz *Magnet weight: 80 oz. *Fs: 51 Hz *SPL: 99.2 dB 1W/1m *Vas: 2.9 cu. ft. *Qms: 7.56 *Qes: 0.37 *Qts: 0.35 *Xmax: 4.6 mm * Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 12.38", Cutout Diameter: 11.07", Mounting Depth: 6.22".

See this for specifics:
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/290-510s.pdf

Note the smooth break up region critical for matching a narrow directivity waveguide.

The tweeter is a Selenium D220Ti-8 mounted on the Dayton H10RW 10" Round Waveguide.
Specifications: *Power handling: 80 watts RMS/160 watts program (with recommended 2,000 Hz, 12 dB/octave crossover) *Voice coil diameter: 1.7" *Throat diameter: 1" *Impedance: 8 ohms *Frequency response: 1,000-21,000 Hz (no crossover) *SPL: 109 dB 2.83V/1m *Magnet weight: 24 oz. *Dimensions: Diameter: 4.53", Depth: 2", 2.75" including threaded "nose".
Again this for specifics:
http://www.parts-express.com/pdf/264-270s.pdf

The crossover is the Behringer CX3400:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=248-668

Crossover frequency is approx 1600Hz with the constant directivity compensation engaged.

The box is not worth mentioning at this time, but the tweeter is just sitting on top of it and diffraction may well be responsible for some of the off axis dips. However, this is the most neutral speaker I've ever owned or measured. Bass response is lacking, but I am getting 60Hz in room before it drops like a stone with bass boost turned up a few dB on the receiver. The graph is 11.25 degrees off axis to 90 degrees off axis in 11.25 degree steps. I can only get 8 graphs overlaid and figured these to be the most important. The on axis looks nearly identical to the 11.25 off axis only averaging a little louder.











Here's one of the with the on axis included of just the waveguide but only out to 45 degrees:










Total cost breakdown:

crossover:	$129.99 $130
woofers: $109.97 X2 $220
waveguide: $8.00 X2 $16
tweeter: $45.84 X2 $92
total: $458 for the stereo pair at present prices plus wood and amps. I bought every piece on sale, so it was considerably less for me, but still represents a nice value IMO of course.

Now the question for me is "do I put these in a large ported box and get bass down to 50Hz or leave them in a small sealed box and get bass to approx 100Hz and build some subs?"

All opinions, thoughts and comments welcome,

Dan

PS, I love constant directivity, high efficiency, and high power handling! I could never go back now. I can't even think about it. Raise your hand if you understand.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

Impressive results, especially the dispersion curves.



DanTheMan said:


> I love constant directivity, high efficiency, and high power handling! I could never go back now. I can't even think about it. Raise your hand if you understand.


Been there for a while. I know what you mean!

Is this your first HE/CD build?


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

Very nice measurements!!! :T

I have you compared the QSC waveguide to the dayton? 

Matt


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

A9X said:


> Impressive results, especially the dispersion curves.
> 
> Been there for a while. I know what you mean!
> 
> Is this your first HE/CD build?


Yes it is. Why didn't I do this sooner?! :dontknow: Everything just sounds balanced, clean, dynamic as hell and easy all at the same time. I wish I built these years ago.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

mdrake said:


> Very nice measurements!!! :T
> 
> I have you compared the QSC waveguide to the dayton?
> 
> Matt


Thanks!

No, the Dayton were the first I tried. The QSC sure do look interesting as well as some from 18sound. I am loving these. I am curious as to how the others would sound. Maybe I should look into it before I build a final box. My gut says I'd have a hard time beating these. At present I can't discern any honk and I have been living with them for a couple months. Some of the various crossover configuration attempts did sound very honky. Every time the WGs sounded honky, it was easy to see in the polar response. I know there is a lot of effort in finding out what honk is in certain circles, but I know there's nothing obvious in these. :T My Klipsch KG5.5's honk was glaringly obvious to my ears. Supposedly Traxis(sp?) horns have no honk. I'm not so sure 'bout that.

This may be helpful as far as that goes:
http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/AES06Gedlee_ll.pdf
:scratch:

Dan


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Here's what that response looks like in room taken at five places across the couch and no eq:










Ouch!

Seems everything in the power response still rears it's ugly head. Makes me wonder what how bad the speakers I've had in the past must have looked in room. You can see the arch in the anechoic response translates well into the room and the broadening dispersion, increased power response, and reflections coming in beneath that and below 180Hz, the room has complete control and a lot of control up to 500Hz.

With my 2 knob eq I was able to get this:










addle:

Somewhere in between sounds best to my ear.

Anyone have a favorite EQ? Above 500Hz I'm going to EQ in anechoic conditions and below that in the listening position average like I've shown. So far Dr. Toole's book seems to be proving true in every respect.

Dan


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## Chester (Feb 19, 2007)

for your 5 couch positions 1/3 or 1/6 octave smoothing would help with clarity 

How did you go about measuring the off axis responses? I would like to do this myself


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Chester said:


> for your 5 couch positions 1/3 or 1/6 octave smoothing would help with clarity
> 
> How did you go about measuring the off axis responses? I would like to do this myself


I tried 1/3 and 1/6 octave smoothing. It actually made it more difficult to see the trend.

I drew a circle on a piece of wood and marked it with the various angles. Then I made markers for the speaker front so I could keep it in the center of the circle. Then just take a measurement, rotate and take another one. Check your impulse response by percent, and gate your measurement to remove the first reflection. That will reduce the resolution of the graph, but also remove the "room".

Here's another cool demo:









One line the is response of a woofer in box undamped, the next is the other woofer in a damped box separated by a few decibels. REW is fun.:nerd:

Dan


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Here's both of them stuffed with a bit of bass boost added:


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## phodee6 (Feb 11, 2010)

any pics of the towers or the build


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

NOt yet. I'm still working on smaller projects.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Update on some crossover work. I figured out what's going on in the 2-3k department. It boils down to Eminence's graph being well off.
Here's the polar graph of the woofer:










So I built a notch filter with some spare parts:










Then looking at the tweeter's response:










It was clear that is wasn't the major offender.

The crossed over woofer sans notch filter looks like this:










Then add in the notch:










Much closer to ideal.

The whole response prior to notch:










Then with notch added:










Notice the bass doesn't drop off on this b/c I wasn't running a fullrange signal on the rest of the graphs to save time.

Finally a little different notch filter:










Just an update,

Dan

BTW, I think the first notch is a bit better.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

next stab at notching that junk out of there:


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

Looks like you almost have it! :T

Matt


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks Matt! I would have had it by now, but I just realized why I was having so much trouble getting the notch filters to work as they should--one channel of my tweeter amp is not working properly and hasn't been since I was doing some high dB testing. Used the other channel and all os a sudden, things are working. I knew I smelled something funny and this time it wasn't the dog.:doh: Fortunately the tweeter itself is fine. I do have a spare T-amp that will have to do for now. Now I just need more time to get the filter right.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Tah dah:









This is as good as it gets for a while. Too much work. I need to make a nice enclosure now.

Dan


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

That's looking very good.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Thanks A9X! It has taken quite a bit of work, but I have learned a multitude. This is easily the best balanced of the bunch and I can't recall ever hearing a speaker I preferred or that shed so much light on the recording. It stinks though to know its faults and not wanting to live with them even though I can't say I hear them b/c I know they can be fixed. If I heard these in the store I'd buy them and not question it, but knowing it's not perfect is tough to live with. IOW, I'm not done yet.:boxer: However it will be after completion of a beautiful enclosure before the crossover gets perfected further.

Dan


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