# DVD of the Future???



## Guest (Apr 16, 2007)

I'm curious to know the difference between Blu Ray and HD DVD. Is it still too early in the game to tell which format will come out on top? I hate making decisions-- here's your chance to make it for me! Make it good, ladies and gentlemen. Make it real good.


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## Snatcher (Jan 8, 2007)

Well.. Let me state that I am format agnostic right now, I bought players for both formats and am buying movies for both players. I'll try to be as neutral as possible.

The main difference is the media format and who are the companies backing up teh technology from the player and movie stand points. HD-DVD uses 15 or 30 GB discs, but I'd say they are 95% 30 GB discs. Blu ray uses 25 or 50 GB discs, and tehy started using the 50 GB ones around this December. This matters because more space means (in theory) either more space for extras and/or better audio and video quality due to this extra GB. In practice I've found out that HD-DVD uses better audio and video codecs to compress the material and ends up with a great product, and Blu ray uses uncompressed stuff and end up with the exact same stuff. This has happened not because Blu-ray cannot use the same codecs, but because not all the players started supporting al teh features and thus, they tend to release their audio in PCM (for example) so any player can play it back. This is not a bad thing at all, uncompressed PCM is great to have, but True HD would offer the same since it is a lossless codec. 

My point is, they offer mostly the same in audio and video quality. Both are 1080p, bith are capable of lossless audio. The differences are subtler and in implementation. For instance, HD-DVD mandates to have ethernet on teh player and thus, allows for firmware upgrades and downloadable content. Blu-ray uses Java as teh language for interactive features and menus and HD-DVD uses iHD (an xml based language), this makes them both very powerful but Blu Ray is harder on the developer's side since they need programmers and not all players support teh same subset or implementation, but it might be way more powerful in teh future.

Now regarding studio backup, HD-DVD only has a handful of supoprters whilst Blu-Ray is very strong since Sony has a part in MGM, Columbia, Sony Pictures, etc. Again, it doesn't mean much since several distributors such as Warner support both formats. 

My guess is that both will stay, the consumer will hardly notice and most people will have dual format players later on.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm gonna move this to the HD forum... you may even find some other discussion already started about this.

Personally I think it's up in the air, both are doing well. I'm buying both myself in hopes that someone will introduce a worthy dual format player... or I'll eventually get a BR, which I don't currently own.


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## khellandros66 (Jun 7, 2006)

Grab the HD-A2 at Circuit City, between their offer and Toshiba's you get 9 free HD-DVD movies, 4 at the time of purchase and 5 more by mail.

Both are good quality and a significant upgrade from SD-DVD. Sony jumped the gun a bit are using BD-Java 1.0 (early prototype spec) but never mandated a spec till earlier this year. So in November BD-Java 1.1 will be used, this will make menus incompatible with current (BD-J 1.0) players they may or may not play or menus will be hidden etc.

I'd wait till early next year, by then 2nd gen players with BD-J 1.1 will be out with an actual ethernet port for firmware updates etc. This will also allow prices to fall.

~Bobby


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## CharlieU (Jan 26, 2007)

I think the future of the DVD is "no DVD". Blu-ray and HD-DVD are placeholders until the content can be either streamed or downloaded onto your home file server efficiently. The iPod/Zune/Rhapsody method of distribution is where we'll be in the near future. Netflix is already streaming some stuff and as soon as the network infrastructure catches up to be able to do HD quality both formats will be moot. It's a big win for the studios as they can sell you another copy of Star Wars, plus they have tighter control as to where you play it.

Charlie


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

Charlie I tend to agree with you. Video on demand is a HUGE player, however it does have some pitfalls... surprising as it is to some people to believe, not everyone has cable or satellite, we don't. It isn't because we can't afford it, we got sick and tired of the poor programing the networks were scheduling, and the commercials started driving me nuts! As far as the movie channels, I found I really wasn't watching them or most were playing the same thing over and over... so we dropped cable back in November of 2004 and haven't had it since.

So video on demand would require I get cable, and I don't see the movie industry supporting that anyway. Once FIOS or other ultra high speed Internet connections are common everywhere, that is an option for video on demand, but there are also too many problems and fears from the studios with illegal downloads, so that will be an interesting thing to watch for.

Plus even with a video on demand system, there will still be people that want to 'own' their own copies. Eventually I think that mindset will change once we have a true video on demand system where a person can literally get any movie they want any time they want it... but imagine the infrastructure that would need to be in place to make sure each studio gets their money. It seems to me it would be rather difficult to have one bill to cover everything, and it could/would quickly add up. Plus, would a person have to repay to watch a movie again? There are lots of variables.

One thing I see coming is media cards. SD memory cards are getting bigger in capacity while coming down in price. They aren't at the capacity to hold high def content yet, but give them a couple of years. Imagine having hundreds of DVDs/High def DVDs that only take up the same shelf space as a couple dozen DVDs. Plus no moving parts to wear out.

I'm not saying media cards are going to be the next phase of things coming down the pike, in fact I see both HD DVD and Bluray formats hanging around for quite awhile. Too much money is vested in both formats for Toshiba, Sony, Samsung and the other parties involved to just pull the plug anytime soon. Add to that consumers aren't going to like something new being introduced at this point in time, so I think we have plenty of time before we see a replacement format or even see HD DVD or BD declared as a 'winner'. It is a fun topic though


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## MACCA350 (Apr 25, 2006)

khellandros66 said:


> I'd wait till early next year, by then 2nd gen players with BD-J 1.1 will be out with an actual ethernet port for firmware updates etc. This will also allow prices to fall.
> 
> ~Bobby


You'll need BD-J 2.0 to guarantee network and internet connectivity, and as of now no players have been announced that will comply with the BD-J 2.0 spec.

cheers


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## Vader (Jul 8, 2006)

> Blu-ray and HD-DVD are placeholders until the content can be either streamed or downloaded onto your home file server efficiently


Not all of us want anything to do with downloadable content, for a variety of reasons.

First and foremost, there is something to say about owning a physical object. Those of us from laserdisc land will attest to the possibility of a studio re-editing their releases to comply with current politically-correct standards (Disney is a huge offender in this area). With physical media, once the film is purchased, the studio is effectively removed from the equation completely - they have exactly ZERO say as to whether the content on my physical medium is acceptable to their ever-changing policies. Further, donloadable content bears the mark of time-limited access, meaning that the studios could control how long I have access, or how many times I can watch it, before I have to pay again. With phisical media, after the initial transaction, they have no pull. Of course, the studios would love a time-limited download system. that would allow them this type of control and provide another huge stream of revenue to complement their greed (remember DIVX?).


> ...plus they have tighter control as to where you play it.


And that is exactly what many will not tolerate. This trend (started by Microsoft, if I'm not mistaken) that "you are not buying the content, merely a license to use it", usually buried somewhere in the EULA, is nonsense. At the moment when I hand over my credit card, the DVD (or CD, or whatever) becomes _my property_ - packaging, polycarbonate, aluminum, pits, and all. The studio has no say whatsoever in what I do with it (excepting anything illegal, of course), how often it is used, or in what venue (again, excepting where I would deprive them of potential income, as in a public presentation that I charge for). I especially like the statement in the EULA that said license can be revoked at any time... I would pay real money to see their lawyers try that one.

Secondly is the potential for "dumbing down" the quality of the content. A perfect analogy may be drawn with the state of audio content, and it's compromises. Oddly enough, the absolute best in sound reproduction may be had on a format that most of the current generation scoffs at: vinyl. Simply put, an analog sound stream will always trump a digital one in AQ, which a digital stream can only _approximate_: the higher the bitrate, the closer the approximation. Since it is theoretically impossible for a digital recording to ever equal its analog counterpart (with less than an infinite bitrate, but that is, by definition, analog), the only way to go in quality is down. Now, J6P generally wouldn't know quality if it came up and bit him, and we see this in the proliferation of jokes like iPods, which compress the music to the point where Barbara Striesand is indistiguishable from Brittany Spears. They might sound sorta-kinda OK when pumped through tiny seakers you stick in your ears, but now they have "docking stations" that allow you to play these hyper-compressed sound bits through a full-range sound setup.... and J6P _still_ fauns over the sound. The same thing will happen to VOD, and those of us who appriciate true quality will be left holding the bag. The industry knows that there is a significant percentage of their customer base that will simply turn away (and take their wallets with them) if they go the route of online-content only. Granted, it will eventually happen, as the populace continues to "dumb down" (more and more generations are being introduced to the **** that is out there, and they take it as the best there is - because that's what they are told). But, this is a case where older technologies do indeed trump newer ones.

I know that I will never move to a downloadable distribution model (I haven't with music, either), and I suspect I'm not alone.


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## Snatcher (Jan 8, 2007)

Amen to that Vader. I simply agree with you in all yoru points. 

This transition to downloadable content will indeed go on, but I believe there will always be a market for physical media, no matter how small. It is happening faster in another market I am familiar with: video games. But I believe that even in that market there will always be an option to buy a box with the stuff. there are lots of us who like to have printed material and a physical box, and teher will always be companies interested to sell to niche markets if there is money to be made.


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

Snatcher said:


> Amen to that Vader. I simply agree with you in all yoru points.
> 
> This transition to downloadable content will indeed go on, but I believe there will always be a market for physical media, no matter how small. It is happening faster in another market I am familiar with: video games. But I believe that even in that market there will always be an option to buy a box with the stuff. there are lots of us who like to have printed material and a physical box, and teher will always be companies interested to sell to niche markets if there is money to be made.


That is what I was saying too. 

I personally will always want to own my movie collection. There may be a day when 'On Demand' is the only way to get things, but that won't be for a very long time. I do think the prospect of potential players with 'no moving parts' where the movie is stored on digital media cards is an interesting concept. I know I have had discs get scratched, and as I mentioned we dropped cable/satellite a few years ago so we only watch things via a DVD player... everything from movies to TV series, and we have burnt out a few DVD transports over the past couple of years. No moving parts to wear out... now that would be sweet!


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## CharlieU (Jan 26, 2007)

wbassett said:


> I personally will always want to own my movie collection. There may be a day when 'On Demand' is the only way to get things, but that won't be for a very long time. I do think the prospect of potential players with 'no moving parts' where the movie is stored on digital media cards is an interesting concept. I know I have had discs get scratched, and as I mentioned we dropped cable/satellite a few years ago so we only watch things via a DVD player... everything from movies to TV series, and we have burnt out a few DVD transports over the past couple of years. No moving parts to wear out... now that would be sweet!


You nailed the reasoning behind my original statements. It's the media. Fragile and inconvenient. While the majority of people that populate forums like this shudder at the quality of material being produced in a downloadable format, looking at the sales of iPod tells me the mainstream doesn't mind. My hope is that technology advances enough to deliver the same quality as Blu-ray and HD-DVD as those formats transition to niche markets.

The media card is something I didn't think of and sounds good to me, but I think by the time that comes around, we will have our 100 terabyte media servers sitting in the rack. 

I'm an old guy and I had a hard time buying PC software and not having a box to hold in my hands. Now that I don't have shelves of boxes taking up space in my computer room, I wonder what my problem was. I feel the same way about movies and music now. Get those shelves out of the way so I have more room for equipment! :bigsmile:


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