# Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer Discussion Thread



## theJman

*Rythmik LV12R​**By Jim Wilson (theJman)*

​

To quote the oft repeated line from the famous (infamous?) ring announcer Michael Buffer; _are you ready to rummmmble?_. You had better be if you buy the Rythmik LV12R, because it certainly is. This subwoofer combines power, depth and poise in equal parts. It's on the large side, and a bit generic in appearance, but for sound quality it's the yardstick to use when measuring any subwoofer costing less than $600. The Rythmik LV12R is nothing short of amazing, and well worth the asking price.

*For the full review Click Here​*​


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## bkeeler10

Great review -- thanks. I've been intending to DIY boxes for a pair of F15HP clones for quite some time now, in a room about the same size as yours, and it appears from this review of the most entry-level Rythmik that I will not be disappointed. And congrats to Rythmik for making even an inexpensive, accessible sub worthy of such a great review on audio quality.


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## theJman

I very seriously doubt you'll be disappointed, especially if you're going to have dual F15HP's in a room that size. Make sure all your pictures are secured properly, otherwise they may end up on the floor...


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## hemingray

About to find out how amazing the LV12R is - mine is sitting at UPS waiting for me to pick it up tomorrow! Jman's review pushed me over the edge on choosing it - great review!

Since I'm replacing a 10" BIC sub which fried the amp after 7 years - I will probably be thoroughly impressed. I've been bass-less since March, so looking forward to it - a lot!


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## TheLaw612

Another fantastic review Jim. I've been waiting for this one for a while now. It really has me interested in what this thing can do for such a low price.

Also, while measurements and charts are helpful, I really enjoy your writing style and how you relate everything to the casual observer/listener. It really makes your reviews enjoyable and worth the read.


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## theJman

hemingray said:


> About to find out how amazing the LV12R is - mine is sitting at UPS waiting for me to pick it up tomorrow! Jman's review pushed me over the edge on choosing it - great review!
> 
> Since I'm replacing a 10" BIC sub which fried the amp after 7 years - I will probably be thoroughly impressed. I've been bass-less since March, so looking forward to it - a lot!


I'm glad you found the review helpful. After you've had the chance to break in and tune your LV12R be sure to come back and post thoughts.


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## theJman

TheLaw612 said:


> Another fantastic review Jim. I've been waiting for this one for a while now. It really has me interested in what this thing can do for such a low price.
> 
> Also, while measurements and charts are helpful, I really enjoy your writing style and how you relate everything to the casual observer/listener. It really makes your reviews enjoyable and worth the read.


Thank you. It's always nice to know the reviews are beneficial to people. They require a great deal of effort, so hearing they help is gratifying.


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## Picture_Shooter

Yo JIM!!! Thanks for this review!! 

I am a huge fan of these LV12r's!! I own two as I type and I got to say for the release sales price of $500 each I could not be happier! 
These really made my sub sq much better as I knew I was missing something with my previous subs that I owned. Either way, no regrets and if anyone does decided to plunge and get these, give them time to break in. They really, really will open up and not just the SQ gets better (due to the servo sub), but the SPL on these are very accurate and tight!! My movie watching is so much more tame and in control.

Bravo!!


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## hemingray

First impression - WOW. 

Ran YPAO and tweaked a few things and not even broken in yet, it's amazing what a change there is with a good sub. The sub brings a presence to things that's just huge. My wife even commented on the movie I am playing with (Inception), "their voices sound like they are right here". I thought the system sounded good before, but now it's, well, to use the Rythmik word - "articulate". It's brought an immediate competence to the system.

OK, the train just went down the street - awesome!

Right now, I'm thinking money well spent. I am loving it. Will give it a run for awhile and retune in a bit.


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## theJman

Glad to hear it's working out so well.


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## monomer

A really nice review. I like the style you chose to present in... less geeky and more down to earth description based. After all anyone can go to the website if they wish to see more graphs and specs.


Okay so let me testify:
Yes, the Rythmik's Direct Servo application really does clean up the bass. I've had two F12s for just about 4 years now. They ooze quality in every way... both in build and sound and Brian's service to the customer, both before and after the sale, is legendary. He even helped me... encouraged me... to perform an optional mod a while back (sent me the resistors with instructions etc)... he is an EE. He's a honest business man and a knowledgeable guy who stands behind his product... seems to be fewer and fewer of those type around these days. Back when I purchased my first F12, I thought I was taking a gamble by not having heard a Rythmik before but from reading all the reviews I could find at the time I noticed no one had anything bad to say about Rythmiks so... I took the plunge. When I got it set up and properly integrated into my system, I took the time to carefully listen to music I was quite familiar with and I was simply amazed... so much so I turned around and ordered a second F12 the same day. I'd never heard bass so clean before... I'm not an SPL kinda guy, I'm a SQ-oriented guy that likes everything to sound as real as possible. However I will say that I find the strength of this Direct Servo application to be found mainly in the range below 60Hz and I believe Brian would also agree with me. Above 80Hz its contribution is not really noticeable over the non-servo competition. Eventually after trying a number of set-up iterations in my theater, I've settled on using the F12s as ULF units and I now use dedicated mid-bass units. For awhile now I've been a proponent of splitting up the traditional subwoofer bass frequency range in two to be delivered by units dedicated to each range... that's just me and with the ultra-clean sound of the Direct Servo in the lower freqs the Rythmiks are the natural choice.

The F12 is a sealed design but from what I've read about all of Brian's ported models, they appear to not differ in SQ from the sealed models. The only change I would make if I had it to do over again is I would have purchased the 15" instead. Brian had suggested from the outset that I wait for the F15s to arrive but at the time the wait was 3-4 months out and I simply couldn't have waited that long. I didn't know if a single 12" 300-watter could cut it in a 2100 cu-ft basement but I was willing to give it a try... as I've said, I'm not really an SPL kinda guy. We generally watch movies about 10dB below reference which is plenty loud really... I just really need to have everything sounding as authentic/accurate as possible. The single F12 was actually enough to pressurize my basement theater without compressing at the bottom end but I know from past experience that my room's acoustics really demanded two subs for better freq smoothing in the 80-30Hz range so that was really why I got the second one.

Usually whenever I hear some one knocking the Rythimk, its either an SPL guy (you know the kind that thinks a home subwoofer is supposed to sound like the one in his "boom-boom" ride... all SPL and no quality or depth) or someone who's never actually heard a Rythmik. You'll wanna take comments from those type guys with a grain of salt.


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## theJman

monomer said:


> A really nice review. I like the style you chose to present in... less geeky and more down to earth description based. After all anyone can go to the website if they wish to see more graphs and specs.


Thank you. I'm glad you found the review beneficial. From the very beginning I wanted to write in a manner that differed from what most others were doing, and that meant conversational as opposed to technical. I do try and present a balance, but I lean more towards descriptive accounts than objective ones. Thus far it has served me well, and the vast majority of comments have been positive, so I don't envision changing my style going forward.


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## steve nn

Nice job Jim.. I would really enjoy trying LV12R out. Seems to be a great sub at a nice price.


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## afterlife2

:hsd:Fantastic review J. Love the way you write your reviews and really explain everything where an amateur can understand, like myself. By the way TEN is my fav Pearl Jam CD as well. Maybe one day I can get a LV, but right now the OSD is a rockin'! Keep up the great great great work. :4stars::clap::T


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## theJman

*Re: Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer Discussion Threada*



afterlife2 said:


> :hsd:Fantastic review J. Love the way you write your reviews and really explain everything where an amateur can understand, like myself. By the way TEN is my fav Pearl Jam CD as well. Maybe one day I can get a LV, but right now the OSD is a rockin'! Keep up the great great great work. :4stars::clap::T


Thanks Joe - I'm glad you enjoyed the review. And I'm happy the little OSD sub is still working good for you!


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## Bjski

Hi,are there any companies making cabinets for subwoofers other than Parts Express. I am not very good at wood working but I can put a speaker together and stain it if need be. I see that Rythmic offers several subwoofer kit's but nothing about cabinet's. I wouldn't mind assembling 2 kit's or should I just keep saving my pennies and buy the finished rythmic product?


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## afterlife2

Bjski said:


> Hi,are there any companies making cabinets for subwoofers other than Parts Express. I am not very good at wood working but I can put a speaker together and stain it if need be. I see that Rythmic offers several subwoofer kit's but nothing about cabinet's. I wouldn't mind assembling 2 kit's or should I just keep saving my pennies and buy the finished rythmic product?


Here Is one. You will need to make a hole for the amp though: http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_951_Single-12-Sealed-MDF-Subwoofer-Enclosure-Belva-MDFS12.html


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## theJman

Bjski said:


> Hi,are there any companies making cabinets for subwoofers other than Parts Express. I am not very good at wood working but I can put a speaker together and stain it if need be. I see that Rythmic offers several subwoofer kit's but nothing about cabinet's. I wouldn't mind assembling 2 kit's or should I just keep saving my pennies and buy the finished rythmic product?


There are several, but it would be better to start a new thread in the DIY section specifically to address your needs. This one is intended for all things directly associated to the LV12R .


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## TheLaw612

Bjski said:


> Hi,are there any companies making cabinets for subwoofers other than Parts Express. I am not very good at wood working but I can put a speaker together and stain it if need be. I see that Rythmic offers several subwoofer kit's but nothing about cabinet's. I wouldn't mind assembling 2 kit's or should I just keep saving my pennies and buy the finished rythmic product?


THESE would also work with the Rythmik kits. The 2 cu.ft. for the 12" and the 3 or 4 cu. ft. for the 15". The 3 cu.ft. would model the Rythmik E15 while the 4 cu.ft. would model the F15/F15HP.

You can contact Erich directly about the dimensions for the cutouts - he's a fantastic person - and I believe the Rythmik drivers have very similar if not identical dimensions to the Dayton Titanic series. I would still double check though.

Edit: Sorry for clogging up your LV12 review thread Jim.


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## Bjski

Thanks afterlife2 and TheLaw612 for quick response. Sorry theJman for clogging your thread. I'm thinking of a Rythmik 12 inch kit so thought it might be a good place to ask seeing you reviewed a 12 inch Rythmik. My apology.


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## RonN5

Jim, I know you really like the LVR-12. The other two well thought of subs at this price point are the HSU VTF2MK4 and the SVS PB1000. Since you also reviewed the SVS, could you offer any comments on how the LVR12 compared in your home and system to the SVS PB1000 with respect to musicality, deep bass extension and volume. Thanks....


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## theJman

I would have to give the edge to the LV-12R in all of the areas you mentioned. At $500 the PB-1000 is almost impossible to beat - especially given SVS's unique Bill Of Rights - but for volume, depth and musical ability I would personally take the Rythmik. The size is concerning, because it's not small, but for me that would be the biggest (no pun intended) drawback.


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## RonN5

Jim....thanks for the quick response.... In my case, I'm more interested in music then HT and my mains are the Tekton Lores which are about -3db around 35hz. The LV12R is physically about as large as I would want to go...smaller would be ok.

Im running Tekton Lores through a Parasound 2100 and Crown XLS2000( which has high pass and low pass filter capability) so, I would either cross at 50 or 60....or maybe even run the Lores full range.

Trying to read between the lines, am I also correct in surmising that you would give a slight edge to the LV12R over the Atlantic 444SB. Or might there even be something else I've missed and should consider?


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## musicguy

Lv12r- Im running two of them. Compared to my REL T1, The LV12's are much tighter in sound. I purchased two for movies. I like the balanced sound two subs provide over one sub. Rythmic makes really great subs.


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## vertigo_2_20

Jim (or anyone else who may have input),

I've spent many hours the past several days looking at different subs, many times feeling like I've found the one only to find something else that made me change me mind. Perfect example, Def Tech Supercubes, which looked great and have good reviews and I was about to pull the trigger on until I realized they don't do well below 30Hz, something that is hidden by the fact they don't publish full specs. While there's not much on the LV12R since it's so new, I have to say your review and positive comments on its predecessor and Rythmik in general really have me leaning toward it. I do have some concerns though and want to be sure I make the best purchase I can for the money.

My situation is as follows: My living room is open to the kitchen and dining room, as well as a double-wide stairway (split-level house, stairs go halfway down, turn 180 degrees, and go the rest of the way down) and a hallway. To make matters worse, the ceiling is vaulted. Not counting the hallway or the space down the stairs, which are separated from the living room by a half-height wall between them and the couch, the living/dining room and kitchen are ~8,000+ cubic feet. What I'm looking for is a sub that will provide deep bass primarily for movies/TV (and I watch a lot of sci-fi, fantasy, action, etc). I want it to sound and feel great. Music isn't very important to me, I'm not that picky, though of course I do want it to sound good. I, like you, prefer quality to quantity. Currently I'm using an Onkyo TX-SR607 to run Polk Audio RM6750 speakers with the included subwoofer. Because of this, pretty much any of the subs I'm looking at will be a huge step up, so ultimately I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them. Still, I'd obviously rather get the best for a given amount of money.

Here are the subs I'm considering:

Rythmik LV12R: $589
SVS PB12-NSD: $769
Hsu VTF-3 MK4: $750 (sale, reg $800)

I don't have a set budget. I'd like to not spend a fortune, and ideally keep it to the price range of the above, but am not totally against going outside of it. A big factor for me is the size: I don't want a massive box taking up a lot of space, and the larger it is, the less likely I will be able to position it perfectly, so while it would probably be ideal for me I'm not interested in a 15" or dual box or anything like that. I may after some time add a second one, though. Speaking of which, how important is it for them to both be the same (brand, model)? I'm thinking of maybe one of the compact SVS subs for the second one as that may be all I'd have room for.

Obviously the Rythmik is by far the cheapest option of the three, so I'm wondering how the performance compares. If it's similar, the Rythmik is a no-brainer, so my question is are they close or do one or both of the others outperform it by more than a small margin making it worth the extra cost? And do you think I would be happy with them considering my situation? Finally, how important is it to have ~1' of space between the back of the Rythmik and the wall, and could it be turned 90 degrees instead?


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## hemingray

I spent many hours over 1 1/2 months looking at the $500-800 range in subs, back in May.

I have a home setup that is somewhat similar to yours - the system is against a wall, and the half cathedral ceiling goes up and away from that wall. It also opens to a dining area at the far end. It also has a hallway branching away - that includes the continued high ceiling. It's an acoustic mess.

I don't know the cubic volume, I didn't use it as a consideration. 

I considered the following subs:

SVS	PB12-NSD
HSU	VTF-3 MK4
Outlaw	LFM-1EX
Rythmik	LV-12R
HSU	VTF-2 MK4
SVS	PB-1000

Despite my budget, I don't believe in filling it just because I can. I really wanted to feel good about my choice. 

After a LONG period of consideration, I chose the LV12R on its specs, reviews and the servo technology. Its promise of good musicality and good HT performance was a good part of it too, and I feel its very true. I am totally happy with it. 

The Rythmik has tons of great bass for home theater - I love it. Before this I had a little 10" BIC sub that burned up its amp. On retuning the system (Yamaha RX-V663), the sound really came alive. The much flatter and lower response of the Rythmik actually improved the sound of the entire system (any good sub would have), and it contributes to my level of sound happiness with the Rythmik. 

I did not feel then, nor do I feel now that I went with a lesser sub by choosing the Rythmik. It's a totally great speaker and I would choose it again. And it only helps that it's cheaper than the rest!

Good luck in your quest!

An aside - I don't feel the need for a second sub (the space I have would make that a challenge anyway!) - this thing puts out more than enough for me!


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## vertigo_2_20

Thanks for the response hemingray. I posted the same question on avsforum and everyone there is telling me I need to go to a 15" minimally and two 15" subs ideally. While I'm sure I do to get maximum effect, I'm just not sure if _I_ personally need that. I'd hate to get a single 12" sub and find it lacking, but then I'd also hate to spend over twice as much, have two big boxes taking up space, and find it to be overkill. I'm really torn. I'm kind of leaning toward the PSA XV15 right now, and they even discount if you get two. I think I'm going to need to call the various companies and get their input.

I have a couple other questions to add: It's been made clear to me over at avs that mixing different brand subs is a bad idea, but what about different models from the same manufacturer? Also, since two subs apparently have 4x the output of 1, it would seem two 12" ones should be plenty, even for my cubic footage, and 15" unnecessary. Is this correct, or is my logic flawed? Of course, I realize it's all relative as well, as everybody's expectations are different. My final question is since I watch most of my content from Netflix, Hulu, and mp4 rips of my movies/tv shows, and therefore the audio is compressed and likely lacking much of the LFE content of a blu-ray, would I be wasting my money on a high-end sub setup?


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## musicguy

I would not gauge the quality of the LV12r buy the price. Its helps with the purchase. They far exceed their price in quality.

I also own a F12 from Rythmik. It has more options than The Lv12r. It does movies really good but you have to watch your set up. Its a sealed system and will bottom out sooner. As i found out on Star Wars III. I use the F12 only for music only now.

The 2 LV12r's give me more dynamics and slam. From everything i have read, ported subs do this better for HT. But The LV12r never gets muddy or boomy. Im still learning how to set them up. So far my findings are, They sound tight, dynamic and easy to blend with my mains.
Compared to my 1000 dollar REL T1. The LV12r wipes the floor with it. (I compared them 1 on 1, i just received my second LV12R this week, Thanks Ascend Audio) The T1 sounded dull, muddy and really hard to blend in.

Just my .2 cents. :nerd:


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## theJman

RonN5 said:


> Jim....thanks for the quick response.... In my case, I'm more interested in music then HT and my mains are the Tekton Lores which are about -3db around 35hz. The LV12R is physically about as large as I would want to go...smaller would be ok.
> 
> Im running Tekton Lores through a Parasound 2100 and Crown XLS2000( which has high pass and low pass filter capability) so, I would either cross at 50 or 60....or maybe even run the Lores full range.
> 
> Trying to read between the lines, am I also correct in surmising that you would give a slight edge to the LV12R over the Atlantic 444SB. Or might there even be something else I've missed and should consider?


That's a bit more difficult to answer because the 444SB turned out to be a very impressive subwoofer for music. How large is your room? The output potential of the Rythmik exceeds the 444SB - as does the overall depth - but depending upon your room size and musical preferences those qualities may be of less concern.

Since you're starting to look in the $1000 range perhaps the Rythmik F15 or E15HP might be more to your liking. Both are close in price to the 444SB, but will offer more depth and output then the AT sub could provide.


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## theJman

vertigo_2_20 said:


> I've spent many hours the past several days looking at different subs, many times feeling like I've found the one only to find something else that made me change me mind. Perfect example, Def Tech Supercubes, which looked great and have good reviews and I was about to pull the trigger on until I realized they don't do well below 30Hz, something that is hidden by the fact they don't publish full specs.


You can take solace in the fact that what you're experiencing is not at all uncommon; the more you learn the more you realize there is to learn. It's the nature of the beast...




vertigo_2_20 said:


> My situation is as follows: My living room is open to the kitchen and dining room, as well as a double-wide stairway (split-level house, stairs go halfway down, turn 180 degrees, and go the rest of the way down) and a hallway. To make matters worse, the ceiling is vaulted. Not counting the hallway or the space down the stairs, which are separated from the living room by a half-height wall between them and the couch, the living/dining room and kitchen are ~8,000+ cubic feet. What I'm looking for is a sub that will provide deep bass primarily for movies/TV (and I watch a lot of sci-fi, fantasy, action, etc). I want it to sound and feel great. Music isn't very important to me, I'm not that picky, though of course I do want it to sound good. I, like you, prefer quality to quantity.
> 
> Here are the subs I'm considering:
> 
> Rythmik LV12R: $589
> SVS PB12-NSD: $769
> Hsu VTF-3 MK4: $750 (sale, reg $800)
> 
> I don't have a set budget. I'd like to not spend a fortune, and ideally keep it to the price range of the above, but am not totally against going outside of it. A big factor for me is the size: I don't want a massive box taking up a lot of space, and the larger it is, the less likely I will be able to position it perfectly, so while it would probably be ideal for me I'm not interested in a 15" or dual box or anything like that. I may after some time add a second one, though. Speaking of which, how important is it for them to both be the same (brand, model)? I'm thinking of maybe one of the compact SVS subs for the second one as that may be all I'd have room for.


Your budget, requirements and environment are at odds with each other; there is simply no way a single 12" subwoofer will be able to handle that volume of space. A pair might get you to a usable level, but a single unit will be rendered mute unfortunately. Since your main objective is "_a sub that will provide deep bass primarily for movies/TV_" you're looking at a minimum of two 15" subwoofers, but realistically a pair of 18" is probably going to be required I'm afraid. Large space = large subwoofers, which is an immutable law of physics. I honestly don't envision how you'll be able to achieve your primary goal given those circumstances. You may have to re-think this before proceeding.


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## tesseract

vertigo_2_20 - What you have been hearing is correct. There is little to no chance of you being able to pressurize 8,000+ cubic feet with a single or even dual 12" subwoofers.

I would suggest dual Rythmik	FV15HP or dual PSA XV15 at minimum, with an eye to adding one or two more in the future. Or as Jman suggested, dual 18" subs.

Feel free to start a thread here in the Home Audio Subwoofers forum to get some more ideas and recommendations.



vertigo_2_20 said:


> My final question is since I watch most of my content from Netflix, Hulu, and mp4 rips of my movies/tv shows, and therefore the audio is compressed and likely lacking much of the LFE content of a blu-ray, would I be wasting my money on a high-end sub setup?


Subs greatly enhance my Netflix experience, I would miss them if they were gone!


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## vertigo_2_20

I started a new thread which I was about to do anyway since I felt like I was hijacking Jman's review thread. I've updated it based on the info I've gathered from you guys and a more in-depth comparison of the options so far.


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## Cafasco

:hissyfit: I feel the pain of a large room. I'm trying to figure out what to do with ~6500 Cu Ft. (glad I don't have 8,000...no offense ). 

So based on another excellent JMAN review, I was sold on the RV12R, so I contacted Rythmic today and one of their techs said 2 RV12Rs would work in my space. So I look at JMAN's review again this evening and...oh, those are BIG subs. :yikes: WAF is going to be an issue! :help: I don't know what to do now...:dontknow:


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## theJman

Cafasco said:


> So based on another excellent JMAN review, I was sold on the RV12R, so I contacted Rythmic today and one of their techs said 2 RV12Rs would work in my space. So I look at JMAN's review again this evening and...oh, those are BIG subs. :yikes: WAF is going to be an issue! :help: I don't know what to do now...:dontknow:


Unfortunately big rooms mandate big subs, or a lot of smaller subs. There's really nothing that can be done about that I'm afraid - it's the nature of the beast. You could get a pair of smaller sealed subwoofers, but they would need to be powerful (which means expensive). For example, a pair of Rythmik E15HP's might work, but they cost more. And the size isn't really all that different. Given how large your room is I think ported is still the better option.


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## Cafasco

Yeah that is the downside for sure, but worth it if you like the open floor plan. I should have measured my old VA-1020x prior to posting and compared the measurements. Your are right, it's really not that much bigger...it sure looked a lot bigger due to its' shape. The VA is more square (~19x19x17). The LV12R is narrower, taller, and a bit deeper...and yeah it does look a bit generic, which may another WAF issue. I guess I need to make a decision and run with it, then take the verbal abuse :boxer::rant:


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## 3dbinCanada

Cafasco said:


> I guess I need to make a decision and run with it, then take the verbal abuse :boxer::rant:


Yup, Always easier to ask for forgiveness then to get permission. :bigsmile:


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## 3dbinCanada

I'm going to be ordering an LV-R12 in the next couple of weeks. I'm getting so excited about having a sub that will extend into the 20Hz region.


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## theJman

3dbinCanada said:


> I'm going to be ordering an LV-R12 in the next couple of weeks. I'm getting so excited about having a sub that will extend into the 20Hz region.


So that's the one you ultimately decided on? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by what it's capable of. For the $$ it's certainly hard to beat.


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## 3dbinCanada

theJman said:


> So that's the one you ultimately decided on? I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by what it's capable of. For the $$ it's certainly hard to beat.


For about $70 more than the SVS PB-1000 shipped to my address, it was difficult not to go for it. The hardest part is the "the waiting"....sounds like a Tom Petty song. :bigsmile:


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## theJman

3dbinCanada said:


> For about $70 more than the SVS PB-1000 shipped to my address, it was difficult not to go for it. The hardest part is the "the waiting"....sounds like a Tom Petty song. :bigsmile:


After you have it broken in and tuned be sure to come back and post your thoughts. I'm certain others will find it beneficial for an owner to comment on his experience as well.


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## steve nn

theJman said:


> After you have it broken in and tuned be sure to come back and post your thoughts. I'm certain others will find it beneficial for an owner to comment on his experience as well.


 Being that the LVR is being talked about so much now and recommended by many including myself after your review Jim, it sure would in my opinion be nice to see it’s numbers up on the Data site although I know it’s not a total tell all. The LVR intrigues me for some reason and always enjoy reading about it.


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## theJman

By 'Data' site, are you referring to data-bass.com? If so, I agree; it would be nice for Josh to test one. I don't really have any say/involvement with his site though, so I'm not in the position to influence that I'm afraid.

Josh does things a bit differently then most; manufacturers submit a sub to him for evaluation - he doesn't actually contact them and request one - so it's more of a "push" than "pull" situation. There's also a fee involved for his services, which some are reticent to pay. Ultimately it would be nice to see, especially for those of us wanting to compare the LV12R directly to the PB12-NSD, so hopefully they (meaning Brian and Josh) can work something out.


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## steve nn

theJman said:


> By 'Data' site, are you referring to data-bass.com? If so, I agree; it would be nice for Josh to test one. I don't really have any say/involvement with his site though, so I'm not in the position to influence that I'm afraid.
> 
> Josh does things a bit differently then most; manufacturers submit a sub to him for evaluation - he doesn't actually contact them and request one - so it's more of a "push" than "pull" situation. There's also a fee involved for his services, which some are reticent to pay. Ultimately it would be nice to see, especially for those of us wanting to compare the LV12R directly to the PB12-NSD, so hopefully they (meaning Brian and Josh) can work something out.



Yes maybe so at some time down the road, we never know. That being that, I would like to try one out just for kicks but shipping costs so much. (I know free one way to me) Now one has to think twice before doing so. :spend: The last sub I did that with is still in my possession due to it’s not worth it anymore to buy and sell in a few weeks. It really seems like the LVR is a great sub for the price though. I now wish I would have bought the LVR instead of what I bought since it would have been nice to have on hand. Might I ask if you sold yours or did you ad it to your collection?


----------



## theJman

steve nn said:


> Might I ask if you sold yours or did you ad it to your collection?


It is indeed part of my (ever growing) collection. The good ones are worth having, although I'll probably sell it soon because I have begun to amass quite a number of subs.


----------



## steve nn

theJman said:


> It is indeed part of my (ever growing) collection. The good ones are worth having, although I'll probably sell it soon because I have begun to amass quite a number of subs.


I noticed a pic of your collection once and thought it was quite extensive.  Keep rockin Jim..


----------



## theJman

steve nn said:


> I noticed a pic of your collection once and thought it was quite extensive.  Keep rockin Jim..


Do you mean this picture? 

Only 4 of those were actually mine, the rest were awaiting review. I sold 2 of mine since then, and the others were reviewed and published, so they're gone as well. With what I have now -- both personally and for review -- I could actually take another picture just like that and see if anyone is able to guess what the new ones are.


----------



## Peter Loeser

theJman said:


> Do you mean this picture?




That looks a little like Dale's garage.


----------



## steve nn

theJman said:


> Do you mean this picture?
> 
> Only 4 of those were actually mine, the rest were awaiting review. I sold 2 of mine since then, and the others were reviewed and published, so they're gone as well. With what I have now -- both personally and for review -- I could actually take another picture just like that and see if anyone is able to guess what the new ones are.


Lol.. SW por :dumbcrazy: That’s a great pic! If I’m not mistaken though, the pic I am referencing was smaller with about twice as many subs, albeit the one you post now is a absolute hoot!


----------



## 3dbinCanada

My order has been placed this morning.


----------



## nicktenn

Hey all, I have a FV12, and just for fun, was considering getting a second one. I've now learned it's been replaced with the LV12r. From what I could find it was just a port relocation and an amp change out to include a lfe input and a reduction in size (the amp). My question is, is it sonically and outputwise essentially the same sub? would they match well together? Should I sell my FV12 and get a pair of LV12r's? Just curious as to what y'all thought.


----------



## jbrown15

nicktenn said:


> Hey all, I have a FV12, and just for fun, was considering getting a second one. I've now learned it's been replaced with the LV12r. From what I could find it was just a port relocation and an amp change out to include a lfe input and a reduction in size (the amp). My question is, is it sonically and outputwise essentially the same sub? would they match well together? Should I sell my FV12 and get a pair of LV12r's? Just curious as to what y'all thought.


I'm sure you'd be fine with just adding a LV12R to your current sub, have you tried contacting Brian to see what he thinks? I think going straight to the source would probably be your best bet.


----------



## theJman

nicktenn said:


> Hey all, I have a FV12, and just for fun, was considering getting a second one. I've now learned it's been replaced with the LV12r. From what I could find it was just a port relocation and an amp change out to include a lfe input and a reduction in size (the amp). My question is, is it sonically and outputwise essentially the same sub? would they match well together? Should I sell my FV12 and get a pair of LV12r's? Just curious as to what y'all thought.


As integrations go that one should be virtually painless. The FV and LV use the same driver, port tuning and enclosure dimensions so their sound signatures are going to be very close. The amp and port orientation are the only significant differences, but I suspect with things like Audyssey that can be overcome with little effort.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

I just received it today and I have it unpacked and have tried it out without calibratiing it to my Yamaha receiver. My first impressions from a build quality is that its a big solid sub with a nice vinyl finish. I did have to play with the settings bringing the receiver's sub output to 75% range of its max output. I had to scramble back for the volume control to bring it down to approximately 30% on the sub. I will reduce the sub channel trim to 50% of the AVR's output capability before running YPAO. I may also need to do a sub crawl again to see where I get maximum bass. I also noticed that line input gave me more output than LFE input. This is just a quick "where I'm at with this sub" after playing with it for an hour so this is no means a review. I promise to have pictures and write up a full review of my impressions.

I also want to add that both Brian and Enrico were very helpful in answering my questions. Thank you gentlemen for supporting a crazy frost bitten Canuck.  Enrico I will have many questions to ask you about setting up this sub. Thanks again gents for all the help you provided me so far.

Here's a couple of pics that show the size difference between the LV-R2 and the Subsonic 5


----------



## D Bone

Thinking about the LV12R and have one question. Placement restraints require, and are non-negotiable (WAF) the sub to be corner placed and there will only be 3" of distance from the back of the sub to the wall. Will this negatively effect the sub in regards to the rear facing port?

I am thinking a sealed sub (SVS SB12-NSD) is better suited to this location?


----------



## theJman

D Bone said:


> Thinking about the LV12R and have one question. Placement restraints require, and are non-negotiable (WAF) the sub to be corner placed and there will only be 3" of distance from the back of the sub to the wall. Will this negatively effect the sub in regards to the rear facing port?


That's probably a little on the tight side. I think the vent would prefer about double that amount.




D Bone said:


> I am thinking a sealed sub (SVS SB12-NSD) is better suited to this location?


Without knowing the room size and intended usage it's not really possible to answer this one.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

*My review of the Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer*

*The LV12R ARRIVES*

I was enroute to the vet with sick cat in tow when my daughter called me indicating that UPS just left the subwoofer at the front door. She managed to gently role it on its side to get it into the door and pushed the carton far enough from the door to lock it. 

I eventually returned home with the cat and some required meds and then looked at the box. “Wow!! This thing is big” I thought. I managed to carry the unit into the basement and into my home theater area.

 

I checked all around the box to see if there were any tears or puncture but it all seemed intact. I opened the box and noticed the instructions were lying on top of a Styrofoam foam tray that was used to keep the sub centred and anchored in the box. Along with the instructions were a couple of boxes which held the power cord and the sub’s rubber feet. As you can tell from the pics, the box was very sturdy with nice thick walls all around.

 

Lifting off the tray, I noticed that the sub was sealed in a plastic bag. I extracted the sub from the box after carefully laying the carton on its side.

 

*TIME TO COMPARE*
Physically, this sub is much larger than the PSB Subsonic 5 sub it replaces as illustrated by the pics. 

 

 

I initially put the LV-R12 where the PSB used to sit and quickly connected it to my system and loaded up Transformers in DVD on the Blu-ray player. I was shocked that I barely heard any bass at all from it. The PSB at that location easily outplayed it. Instead of panicking at this point, I thought a new bass crawl and a recalibration of YPAO was in order to rectify this. I wouldn’t be able to do this for another two agonizingly long days.

*The NEW SWEET SPOT*
From the pics below, one can see that the new sweet spot was behind my left speaker. There was not a whole lot of room back there and I was worried that the sub’s proximity to my speaker would cause sonic issues. Brian Ding of Rythmik quickly responded to my inquiry and told me that this would not be an issue for either the speaker or the sub. I reran YPAO at this point and I was ready for my first foray into 20 Hz bass, something the PSB just could not do.

 

 

 

*The BASS*
Since my primary purpose for this sub is HT, I primarily tested it using Blu-ray’s. Before I describe what I’ve heard during my listening tests, I want to put out a point of reference to SPL. I was listening to a level where just the dialog scenes were hovering between 75 and 80db. I should have measured the output during the bass peaks but I forgot too. I just was too amazed at what I was hearing.
I loaded up Iron Man 2 and this film is riddled with deep bass scenes from the get go. The opening scene has IronMan2 flying to the Stark Expo through the volley of exploding fireworks. Each explosion left both a very tactile thump in my chest and a nice tight articulate rumble that coursed through the room. The bass was tight with no hint of sloppiness. 

I immediately followed up Ironman 2 with the Avengers, another film I would use to show off my HT system. During the collapse of the laboratory facilities, my eldest daughter calls me from her cell (she’s upstairs in the kitchen and directly overhead my listening position) saying that the empty can of bake beans has rattled across the sink and fell in. From my listening position, I felt my chest rattle as the lab was collapsing. I could easily make out individual bass notes during the collapse as well indicating how articulate the LV-R12 is in its bass delivery. 

In a nut shell, I both felt and heard bass that was extremely tight and tuneful with no sloppiness or booming. I was quite amazed at how detailed the LV-R12 played. Not only did I feel the bass but I could easily discern individual notes changes within the scenes hearing the pitch rise and/or fall. I whole heartedly recommend this sub. Its even more remarkable when you consider its price tag of $589.


----------



## bkeeler10

Nice! Love the comment about the empty can. Sounds pretty impressive. That's cool that a single 12" sub can do all that. How big is your room? I've been wanting to DIY boxes for a pair of F15HP clones and it sounds like I won't have an output problem! Thanks.


----------



## theJman

*Re: My review of the Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer*



3dbinCanada said:


> In a nut shell, I both felt and heard bass that was extremely tight and tuneful with no sloppiness or booming. I was quite amazed at how detailed the LV-R12 played. Not only did I feel the bass but I could easily discern individual notes changes within the scenes hearing the pitch rise and/or fall. I whole heartedly recommend this sub. Its even more remarkable when you consider its price tag of $589.


Just wait until it's broken in some more, things get better. :T Glad everything worked out so well for you.


----------



## D Bone

How much room did you leave from the rear port to the wall?


----------



## 3dbinCanada

D Bone said:


> How much room did you leave from the rear port to the wall?



About 6 to 8 inches


----------



## 3dbinCanada

bkeeler10 said:


> Nice! Love the comment about the empty can. Sounds pretty impressive. That's cool that a single 12" sub can do all that. How big is your room? I've been wanting to DIY boxes for a pair of F15HP clones and it sounds like I won't have an output problem! Thanks.




Here's the room dimensions.


----------



## D Bone

Hey 3db, can you measure your LV12R's depth (both with the grill on & off) as I have seen a couple of conflicting depth measurements and I would like to double check.................THANKS!


----------



## 3dbinCanada

*Re: My review of the Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer*



theJman said:


> Just wait until it's broken in some more, things get better. :T Glad everything worked out so well for you.


Thanks Jim. As musical as the PSB is, the LV-R12 is much better.


----------



## theJman

D Bone said:


> Hey 3db, can you measure your LV12R's depth (both with the grill on & off) as I have seen a couple of conflicting depth measurements and I would like to double check.................THANKS!


You can check the measurements in my review of the LV12R. I always publish my own -- and not what's on the manufacturers website -- so those should be pretty accurate. I don't account for knobs though, so add maybe an inch or so for those. The grill is about an inch thick as well, so you can subtract that from my numbers to know how deep the cabinet itself is.


----------



## D Bone

Thanks J

You list the depth at 18.75" (including grill) and that might work for me, even with the rear port. Trying to decide between this and a PSA XS15.


----------



## TheLaw612

D Bone said:


> Thanks J
> 
> You list the depth at 18.75" (including grill) and that might work for me, even with the rear port. Trying to decide between this and a PSA XS15.


I'm deciding between these two as well. I have an XV15 right now but I'm selling it to my brother who has a huge room and I need to downsize a bit. Most likely going with the LV12R because my usage is about 90% movies.


----------



## musicguy

Has anybody paired these with other brand of subs? I want to add some budget subs to the back of my home theater 5.1. I have two lv12's up front but want to balance the bass all the way around. Plus have a some rocking bass!!!!!!

musicguy


----------



## theJman

musicguy said:


> Has anybody paired these with other brand of subs? I want to add some budget subs to the back of my home theater 5.1. I have two lv12's up front but want to balance the bass all the way around. Plus have a some rocking bass!!!!!!


I would suggest you reconsider that. Integrating disparate subwoofers is not for the faint of heart, and can often be an exercise in futility.

The LV12R -- like all subwoofers -- has it's own sound signature. While it may only differ from another unit in subtle ways, it will be different nonetheless. That by itself can cause uneven sound, but we're only at the beginning. No budget subwoofer will play as deep as the LV12R, which means they'll reach their respective limits at different frequencies. Not good for sound quality. The port tuning won't match either, meaning the budget subs will "unload" their driver far sooner than the LV12R. Add to that the need to properly level match subwoofers with different output potentials and you have quite a complex challenge.

If you want to increase output it would really be better to stick with another LV12R.


----------



## steve nn

theJman said:


> I would suggest you reconsider that. Integrating disparate subwoofers is not for the faint of heart, and can often be an exercise in futility.
> 
> The LV12R -- like all subwoofers -- has it's own sound signature. While it may only differ from another unit in subtle ways, it will be different nonetheless. That by itself can cause uneven sound, but we're only at the beginning. No budget subwoofer will play as deep as the LV12R, which means they'll reach their respective limits at different frequencies. Not good for sound quality. The port tuning won't match either, meaning the budget subs will "unload" their driver far sooner than the LV12R. Add to that the need to properly level match subwoofers with different output potentials and you have quite a complex challenge.
> 
> If you want to increase output it would really be better to stick with another LV12R.


^^^+1


----------



## Pilk

About to jump into the LV12R dual sub world. I've shopped it a bunch but the servo technology along with dual ported subs really appeals to me. I have dual sealed (10's) and they were fine for music but the impact wasn't always there when I wanted it. I should have things up and running for thanksgiving if all goes well. Thanks for all the replies to this thread and to the original review.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

Pilk said:


> About to jump into the LV12R dual sub world. I've shopped it a bunch but the servo technology along with dual ported subs really appeals to me. I have dual sealed (10's) and they were fine for music but the impact wasn't always there when I wanted it. I should have things up and running for thanksgiving if all goes well. Thanks for all the replies to this thread and to the original review.


Congrats. The LV12R is an awesome sub in every respect


----------



## theJman

Pilk said:


> About to jump into the LV12R dual sub world. I've shopped it a bunch but the servo technology along with dual ported subs really appeals to me. I have dual sealed (10's) and they were fine for music but the impact wasn't always there when I wanted it. I should have things up and running for thanksgiving if all goes well. Thanks for all the replies to this thread and to the original review.


Congrats on your new purchase! After you have them broken in and tuned be sure to come back and post your impressions. Others will benefit from your insight.


----------



## Pilk

About the pull the trigger here as my mains are getting picked up this weekend. My room is 18x12x9 (about 2000cuft). I've always thought duals are the way to go. My placement is limited to the screen wall just inside my L/R towers. I'm wondering if a single would be adequate in this room for HT and music. Duals would be setting about 7-8 feet apart on the screen wall vs. center placement for a single. (Is that 7-8 feet enough to smooth out the response making the duals a better option?)

I've even considered the F25 as an option but the price quickly gets close to 1600 with shipping. So;

Single LV12R $589
Dual LV12r 1060
Single 15" Rythmik 1000-1200 depending on the model. 
are my options. Thoughts...comments. Thanks.


----------



## Cisco Kid

I am planning to pull the trigger and order a sub this eve. I have read Jims LV12R review and it sounds awesome.

I have one question, can the HSU VTF-2 MK4 be compared to it equally? everything I seem to read gives it great musicality. Last SVS has a PC12-NSD available in their outlet for 699 shipped, making it an extra $100 over the LV12R and HSU which are 589 and 596 shipped, I realize it is a cylinder style but I think I can get away with it with the WAF, But if we leave it out would one be as happy with the HSU as Rhythmik in an approx 2800cu sq ft room 15x19x 9 or 10?

I can not go duals or any more money than 699 for now, so if one of these is not enough I will have to add a second later or just accept what it is, 50% movies the balance music and TV trance,chill and classic rock as well as reggae


----------



## theJman

I've never heard the VTF-2 myself, so unfortunately I can't comment on it directly. From what I've read it's a nice sub though. Knowing what the LV12R is capable of makes me believe the HSU would be hard pressed to surpass it; it may match the Rythmik's abilities, but I'm not sure about exceeding them.

The cylinder style of subwoofer will often have a bit deeper bass, and may even be able to play a little louder. A lot of that is due to the increased internal volume of the enclosure, as well as the extra length of the tuned port. But the trade-off is that you have what appears to be a carpeted water heater in your living room, something not aesthetically pleasing to many. That's a personal preference though, and varies by individual.


----------



## Pilk

Just ordered duals yesterday. Should be up and running before next weekend. I will post my impressions once I've had a chance to set up and run some music and movies. Great info on this thread and thanks to JMan. I was on the fence between 3-4 options and re-read his review and that flipped the switch. :clap:


----------



## theJman

You're very welcome - I'm glad I was able to assist. And congrats on your new toys! We look forward to your impression of them, but I suspect I already know what you're going to say...


----------



## jt78681

Pilk said:


> Just ordered duals yesterday. Should be up and running before next weekend. I will post my impressions once I've had a chance to set up and run some music and movies. Great info on this thread and thanks to JMan. I was on the fence between 3-4 options and re-read his review and that flipped the switch. :clap:


I have duals. I think you will be pleased.


----------



## Pilk

Ok...got my dual LV12R's running. After a few evenings playing with them and switching out some mains they're just about what I was hoping for. Seamless for music...and I mean all kinds of music, from Steel Drivers to Joe Bonamassa to 'you name it'. 

I ran the Rythmiks according to the set up sheet with LFE, crossover at 80, mains to small, bass to subs only. Amp is a Yamaha RXV2700. Mainly listened in 2.1 but also ran some 7.1 stereo.

I played them with a set of Martinlogan Motion 12's that I picked up a month ago. I'm not sure they I'm a big fan of the folded motion tweeter...seems a bit hot for my tastes with too much SSSSSS on vocals and the tweeters get a little harsh at higher volumes. The Rythmiks played very nicely with them but I had a hard time taming the tweeters on the ML's. There's a fullness to the ML's but I think they might have over reached with the tweeters. 

I had a set of Zaph Audio 5.3c's that I've used for HT use. I hooked them for a few hours. I actually preferred the upper end of the Zaph's to the ML's but the Zaph's are a bit shy on the midbass and felt the blend with the subs got a little weaker. 

Finally, I dug out my Infinity SL40 vintage 1993 just for kicks. Wouldn't you know it, I had the best speakers sitting in a closet, untouched for 6 years because, certainly, better stuff has come along since 1993. I set these on top of the Rythmiks because, for a floor stander, they're a bit short and the stage dropped a bit. Man...was a nice combo. Not sure what it is but those two were so easy to listen to. Low volume, SPL...didn't matter...they just kept singing. I may have to refresh my knowledge of the SL40's to see why I like them so much. 

I have yet to throw in a movie...that's tomorrow. I'll update then, but so far I'm happy. I probably could have ponied up another $1500-2000 for a pair of bigger Rythmiks but I think this will do.


----------



## theJman

I'm glad they worked out so well for you. I think as time goes on you'll come to appreciate there capabilities even more.


----------



## Pilk

Thanks Jman. I'm putting the Martin Logan 12's and Motion C center on ebay and will put an ad on this site. Might regret it but I'm pretty happy with the Infinity's right now...enough to get me by until I find something else.


----------



## Pilk

If anyone is interested PM me and I can always drop the ebay listing. I'm in SW Missouri for locals. Thanks.


----------



## Pilk

Shameless post count boost so I can put an ad in classifieds. :gulp:


----------



## Picture_Shooter

Pilk said:


> Ok...got my dual LV12R's running. After a few evenings playing with them and switching out some mains they're just about what I was hoping for. Seamless for music...and I mean all kinds of music, from Steel Drivers to Joe Bonamassa to 'you name it'.
> 
> I ran the Rythmiks according to the set up sheet with LFE, crossover at 80, mains to small, bass to subs only. Amp is a Yamaha RXV2700. Mainly listened in 2.1 but also ran some 7.1 stereo.
> 
> I played them with a set of Martinlogan Motion 12's that I picked up a month ago. I'm not sure they I'm a big fan of the folded motion tweeter...seems a bit hot for my tastes with too much SSSSSS on vocals and the tweeters get a little harsh at higher volumes. The Rythmiks played very nicely with them but I had a hard time taming the tweeters on the ML's. There's a fullness to the ML's but I think they might have over reached with the tweeters.
> 
> I had a set of Zaph Audio 5.3c's that I've used for HT use. I hooked them for a few hours. I actually preferred the upper end of the Zaph's to the ML's but the Zaph's are a bit shy on the midbass and felt the blend with the subs got a little weaker.
> 
> Finally, I dug out my Infinity SL40 vintage 1993 just for kicks. Wouldn't you know it, I had the best speakers sitting in a closet, untouched for 6 years because, certainly, better stuff has come along since 1993. I set these on top of the Rythmiks because, for a floor stander, they're a bit short and the stage dropped a bit. Man...was a nice combo. Not sure what it is but those two were so easy to listen to. Low volume, SPL...didn't matter...they just kept singing. I may have to refresh my knowledge of the SL40's to see why I like them so much.
> 
> I have yet to throw in a movie...that's tomorrow. I'll update then, but so far I'm happy. I probably could have ponied up another $1500-2000 for a pair of bigger Rythmiks but I think this will do.


* Awesome that you are enjoying the LV12r's!! I used to own duals, but now only own one since we sold our house we had to leave one behind. 
Once you give them a few driving hours these subs will open up a good bit more!! They are very articulate subwoofers that basses with precision and accuracy! These subs are not afraid to drop below 20hz with authority if needed! 

After face to face chat with Brian back in Austin, this guy really knows his subwoofers!! He's not a sales man this guy is an engineer at its finest! Anyone that wants clean bass these Rythmik servo amps are hard to beat!


----------



## Pilk

Picture_Shooter said:


> * Awesome that you are enjoying the LV12r's!! I used to own duals, but now only own one since we sold our house we had to leave one behind.
> Once you give them a few driving hours these subs will open up a good bit more!! They are very articulate subwoofers that basses with precision and accuracy! These subs are not afraid to drop below 20hz with authority if needed!
> 
> After face to face chat with Brian back in Austin, this guy really knows his subwoofers!! He's not a sales man this guy is an engineer at its finest! Anyone that wants clean bass these Rythmik servo amps are hard to beat!


I don't know if the break in thing is real but the difference I'm hearing now versus the first few hours is real. I'm still tweaking I guess....I keep going back to my original and recommended settings which seem to be working the best. They really to play music rather than make noise...something new for me. :rofl:


----------



## Pilk

Just watched Skyfall....pretty fantastic. I see where this addiction can go. If 2 is good...how good is 3 or 4?


----------



## Picture_Shooter

Pilk said:


> Just watched Skyfall....pretty fantastic. I see where this addiction can go. If 2 is good...how good is 3 or 4?


Try it and let us know?


----------



## Cisco Kid

Picture_Shooter said:


> Try it and let us know?


what he said


----------



## Pilk

Picture_Shooter said:


> Try it and let us know?





Cisco Kid said:


> what he said


I'm still in my 45 day discount period :yes:. I should post a pic of my set up. My subs are just to the outside of the screens, more or less corner loaded. They serve as stands for my LR with speaker isolation pads between and the subs. The center is sitting on two stands. All I can think of is adding a third LV12R to be the speaker stand for my center. That's how the addictive personality works. :sn:


----------



## Pilk

Watched THe Hurt Locker last weekend. Ummmm....couple scenes were crazy! I decided at that moment I didn't really need another sub. But I see how guys get addicted to the affect and always pushing for more. I've already got upgraditus...but probably will be able to resist for a while. Thinking about updating my LRC to some DIY speakers. 

Serious question though...would a third make much of a difference? Still thinking about a stand for my center channel. In stead of going out and buying a $100 stand...I can pony up an extra $400 and make it out of a subwoofer...:yes:


----------



## afterlife2

Pilk said:


> Watched THe Hurt Locker last weekend. Ummmm....couple scenes were crazy! I decided at that moment I didn't really need another sub. But I see how guys get addicted to the affect and always pushing for more. I've already got upgraditus...but probably will be able to resist for a while. Thinking about updating my LRC to some DIY speakers.
> 
> Serious question though...would a third make much of a difference? Still thinking about a stand for my center channel. In stead of going out and buying a $100 stand...I can pony up an extra $400 and make it out of a subwoofer...:yes:


:TGet these instead for $40! http://www.amazon.com/VideoSecu-Adj...d=1389241088&sr=8-8&keywords=bookshelf+stands


----------



## garyrbrock

This sub matches magnepan setup instructions for center channel integration. If instructions followed I must bypass umc2 bass management and rely on sub features. SVS does not have same same features for this unique magnepan recommendation.


----------



## garyrbrock

I now have sub mated with mmg mains, mmgc and mmgc surrounds. Directed by umc 200 and powered with xpr5. Bypass bass management and set sub at 60 crossover, low bass extension and 24 db. Perfect for DD or music. Sub set between left front and center. Blends with Maggie's.


----------



## bkeeler10

Cool. Rythmik subs are very flexible and the ones above the lv12 are even more so. 

How do you like those Maggies for movies?


----------



## kdaq

Hey all. Pardon my tangent, but just wanted to thank Jim for an excellent review. I now have an LV12R on order and can't wait until it gets here! 

Had trouble finding impressions on it, but was pretty sure it's perfect for me. I have 5 x Ascend Acoustics HTM-200SE -- which are surprisingly capable, but by design trade the bottom two octaves for a diminutive footprint. Thankfully these teeny speakers have no trouble down to 80Hz (truly a wonder of engineering on Dave Fabrikant's part), so I'm hoping with that crossover point the sub won't sound localized.

The Ascends have a neutral, effortless quality to them. Sounds like the Rythmik will be just the ticket. The only thing I'm worried about is placement, since I don't have too much flexibility in where it can go (behind TV either left or right on a narrow wall is it).


----------



## theJman

kdaq said:


> Hey all. Pardon my tangent, but just wanted to thank Jim for an excellent review. I now have an LV12R on order and can't wait until it gets here!


Congrats on your new toy! I'm glad my review was helpful to you.

After you've had the opportunity to get it broken in and tuned be sure to come back and post your impressions. Comments from actual owners are a good source of information for others.


----------



## kdaq

Thanks much! Will do.


----------



## kdaq

It's too early to post a balanced view of my impressions of the LV12R, but I wanted to quickly post about my setup experience before I forget the details.

*Unpacking*

Thankfully I found the box was small enough to fit through standard doorways, and light enough to push around by myself. It was single-boxed but with some of the beefiest padding I've ever seen. I used the included "skateboard" to slide the sub out with the box on its side, and it was really easy to remove that way.

*Hookup*
For hookup I decided to go with LFE. Didn't have any quality single audio cables (and I didn't feel like researching if 75 ohm composite video cables were suitable for this), so I used one side of a quality stereo cable.

*Receiver Config*
My receiver (an ancient Denon AVR1905) was set for all small speakers, crossover at 80Hz, subwoofer enabled, and bass to subwoofer only (not mixed with mains). Also set the appropriate distance from listening position to sub.

First thing I did was throw on a bass-heavy song. It didn't sound any different. I put my hand on the sub and felt vibrations, which confused me. My first thought was that I should check the gain on the sub channel.

I put the receiver in test tone mode and started adjusting gain for each channel. The sub was at 0db. I adjusted it up and the sub came to life. What the?

Turns out it was the auto-on mode. For whatever reason, the sub didn't fire-up until I went into test-tone mode and made an adjustment. After that, I clicked the sub's power switch it to "on" instead of auto. Will have to play with this more later to see if it happens again.

*Amp Tuning*

Now that I had some bass, it was time to tune. With receiver gain at 0 and volume on the amp at 50% (12 o'clock), I could barely hear it. Breaking out an SPL meter app on my phone, I found the sub output was indeed much lower than other channels. Had to crank the amp volume up to about 70% to get the SPL to match.

Once I tried some test material at this level, I decided to trust my own perception over the meter and dialed it back a few ticks.

*Placement*

I have a rectangular room with the TV, mains, and sub against a narrow side. The sub is right of the TV, about a foot away from the back wall to give the port some breathing room, and a couple feet from the side wall.

Due to the layout of my room it would be tough to move the sub anywhere else. I'm hoping it does well here. Need to continue break-in, do some critical listening, and get a feel for it. Also need to read-up on how to recognize if I'm hearing any audio anomalies that could be placement-related (or if I need to invest in any diagnostic equipment). I must admit I don't know how to recognize that just yet.

*Initial Impression*

I believe that the break-in period is as much for my brain as it is for the sub. You read about how this thing is nuanced and not to expect flabby, muddy bass -- but I was still surprised when I fired it up.

Not that I don't know what quality bass sounds like -- I'm a headphone junkie with a few capable setups -- but it's different with speakers. I expected to be hearing some low notes, but more often than not it was something else entirely.

OK, I'm going to cheat and relay an early impression. Can't help myself 

1) I feel more of the low end in my gut than I hear

2) A few rare songs with an airy or expansive feel to them, perhaps recorded in interesting acoustic environments, give more goosebumps. They're somehow more enveloping. It's like the sub is providing my brain spacial cues that make the whole presentation more believable. I haven't heard this effect in many places yet but it's pretty stunning when it happens.


Really excited. Can't wait to spend more time with it!


----------



## BeeMan458

kdaq said:


> Really excited. Can't wait to spend more time with it!


...:T

Give it about forty to sixty hours to break-in.

Congratulations!

...:T


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## afterlife2

Funny thing is all my last 3 subs I've gotten were broken in, so I never had to do them on mine. I hope to see some detail pics of the setup as well.  Most of my setups are either 1 or 2 o' clock on the gain. Looking foward to your review and continue to enjoy!:hsd::yikes:


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## park41

Hey guys, I have a SVS PB1000 right now, still in the audition phase. While overall happy with it so far, I my only gripe is with music with a lot of mid bass. I've gotten some feedback from members on this forum that svs subs can be alittle weak in this area. I listen to a lot of traditional and smooth jazz, so I was wondering how the Rythmik lv12 handles this type of bass?


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## theJman

afterlife2 said:


> Funny thing is all my last 3 subs I've gotten were broken in, so I never had to do them on mine.


You're welcome...


----------



## nathan_h

park41 said:


> Hey guys, I have a SVS PB1000 right now, still in the audition phase. While overall happy with it so far, I my only gripe is with music with a lot of mid bass. I've gotten some feedback from members on this forum that svs subs can be alittle weak in this area. I listen to a lot of traditional and smooth jazz, so I was wondering how the Rythmik lv12 handles this type of bass?


The Rythmik is great, but unless you have a small room and have optimized the location to avoid any nulls at the listening position, the problem is not your PB1000 but your setup and/or room....


----------



## park41

nathan_h said:


> The Rythmik is great, but unless you have a small room and have optimized the location to avoid any nulls at the listening position, the problem is not your PB1000 but your setup and/or room....


Ok, playing around with phase also, as recommended by follow members. Just asking about Rythmik because I read you could adjust it to sound like a sealed sub or it was just more musical than the PB1000.


----------



## BeeMan458

If buying subwoofers.....money can buy happiness.

When budgeting for a subwoofer, keep the above thought in mind.


----------



## theJman

park41 said:


> Ok, playing around with phase also, as recommended by follow members. Just asking about Rythmik because I read you could adjust it to sound like a sealed sub or it was just more musical than the PB1000.


You can tailor the Q of a Rythmik subwoofer, which will alter how "precise" the output sound will be, but I'm not really sure if I would classify that as the ability to emulate a sealed subwoofer (which can have a wide range of Q values itself). What that essentially means is you can adjust the sound quality to be a bit more pronounced for something like HT, or increase the transient response to make music more satisfying.


----------



## tx56tn86ga06

kdaq - I recently purchased 5 new HTM-200 SE speakers and the LV12R sub. My room is not complete so I have not installed them yet. I wanted to ask if there is anything I need to watch out for when I get ready to install and configure my 5.1 system.


----------



## kdaq

tx56tn86ga06 said:


> kdaq - I recently purchased 5 new HTM-200 SE speakers and the LV12R sub. My room is not complete so I have not installed them yet. I wanted to ask if there is anything I need to watch out for when I get ready to install and configure my 5.1 system.


Hey tx56tn86ga06,

Congrats on your purchase!

Every room is different, but I think you'll find these speakers to be pretty easy to place, so long as your room isn't huge. They have great dispersion, especially considering their size. In my use I confirm that they are capable of playing down to 80Hz quite nicely, and that's where I have my crossover point. Each of mine are sitting on a ledge or speaker stand, so I can't speak to wall mounting if you're going that route.

I had more trouble with bass. Not the LV12R's fault, this is just inherent to low frequency. If you have flexibility in placement, you may want to try the crawl test. For me, I could only really place the sub behind my TV and to the right slightly. This position works well, but bass response changes greatly depending on where you are seated. As a result, some seats in my room get more bass than others. Not a huge deal, but it leads me to tweak the output level up and down sometimes depending on where I am and what I'm listening to. I suspect that a second subwoofer could help even this out, but my money's better spent elsewhere at the moment.

Best of luck and report back on your results!

-Kevin


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## tx56tn86ga06

Kevin - thanks for the input. I still have to finish the baseboards and then have the carpet installed. Hopefully, I will be ready to install the speakers in another few weeks. 

Steve


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## Autorotate

This was the most thorough review I have found on the forums. I know you said the tests were done in a 1700 cu ft room. Do you think that (1) of these LV12R subs is enough for that size room or would (1) FV15HP have been better? I'm curious as I have the same amount of room, but don't have the space for (2) subs.


----------



## theJman

Autorotate said:


> This was the most thorough review I have found on the forums. I know you said the tests were done in a 1700 cu ft room. Do you think that (1) of these LV12R subs is enough for that size room or would (1) FV15HP have been better? I'm curious as I have the same amount of room, but don't have the space for (2) subs.


I'm glad you found my review beneficial. It's comments such as yours that make all the time and effort worthwhile.

A single LV-12R was not stressed by my room; it would be able to handle almost anything you might care to throw at it. Depending upon your expectations you may not need anything else.

I've actually had an opportunity to hear the FV15HP in person, so I can do a bit of a compare-n-contrast between them. The FV is a beast, in every sense of the word. Size, output, depth, you name it. The difference is quite evident, and I was a little taken aback by what that subwoofer can do. It's no wallflower -- it's big and brash -- so if you want the ultimate experience you should definitely consider it.

The LV-12R will put a smile on your face for sure. The FV15HP will do that as well, but it has enough extra so your neighbor will also be smiling (assuming he/she likes LFE ).


----------



## Autorotate

TheJman, thank you again for coming through. I have spent weeks reading whether (1) 12 would be enough or not before I found your post. I am going to give the one a test for now. I can always upgrade to the 15 in the future. I just wanted something I wasnt going to be disappointed with. And you confirmed that in your posts. Thanks again!


----------



## theJman

Autorotate said:


> TheJman, thank you again for coming through. I have spent weeks reading whether (1) 12 would be enough or not before I found your post. I am going to give the one a test for now. I can always upgrade to the 15 in the future. I just wanted something I wasnt going to be disappointed with. And you confirmed that in your posts. Thanks again!


You're quite welcome, and I highly doubt you'll be disappointed.

If you decide that the LV-12R is for you please be certain to come back and post your opinion. Comments from owners are always welcome.


----------



## Autorotate

theJman said:


> You're quite welcome, and I highly doubt you'll be disappointed.
> 
> If you decide that the LV-12R is for you please be certain to come back and post your opinion. Comments from owners are always welcome.



Absolutely will do! :T


----------



## kdaq

About a half year later, I'm still not ready to post my own full impressions just yet, as I've switched out my receiver once, and am just about to do it a second time. Haven't gotten the full system to sound spot-on just yet.


I do want to talk about a great opportunity I had recently to have some fun and help out a friend who is considering a sub purchase. He has a vintage Dahlquist DQ-10 stereo pair in a small listening room. The soundstage and imaging is really something.

I brought my LV12R over to pair with them. After some tinkering we found that a crossover somewhere between 50 and 60 Hz worked best, and dialed-in volume and phase (using stereo inputs, not LFE).

Then we spent a few hours jumping between CDs. As expected, most everything had added life to it. In some cases, the sub barely made a difference, as the recording didn't do much in that bottom octave. In other cases, we noticed details here and there that made a song feel new. Overall, a very nice pairing.


There was this one recording, though. It was jazz, I forgot the artist. The thing about it was that the band was playing together in a room, and you could hear _the room_. Spacial cues to the brain or something, I don't know, but it was unmistakeable. We got up and turned off the sub. *poof*, the room was gone. Turned the sub back on, and it clicked right into focus again.

To me this is what has impressed me most in my listening. The LV12R can hit you in the gut (which I love), but what finesse!


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## 3dbinCanada

kdaq said:


> About a half year later, I'm still not ready to post my own full impressions just yet, as I've switched out my receiver once, and am just about to do it a second time. Haven't gotten the full system to sound spot-on just yet.
> 
> 
> I do want to talk about a great opportunity I had recently to have some fun and help out a friend who is considering a sub purchase. He has a vintage Dahlquist DQ-10 stereo pair in a small listening room. The soundstage and imaging is really something.
> 
> I brought my LV12R over to pair with them. After some tinkering we found that a crossover somewhere between 50 and 60 Hz worked best, and dialed-in volume and phase (using stereo inputs, not LFE).
> 
> Then we spent a few hours jumping between CDs. As expected, most everything had added life to it. In some cases, the sub barely made a difference, as the recording didn't do much in that bottom octave. In other cases, we noticed details here and there that made a song feel new. Overall, a very nice pairing.
> 
> 
> There was this one recording, though. It was jazz, I forgot the artist. The thing about it was that the band was playing together in a room, and you could hear _the room_. Spacial cues to the brain or something, I don't know, but it was unmistakeable. We got up and turned off the sub. *poof*, the room was gone. Turned the sub back on, and it clicked right into focus again.
> 
> To me this is what has impressed me most in my listening. The LV12R can hit you in the gut (which I love), but what finesse!


Yep, Its one articulate sub that can also thump the chest if the bass calls for it.


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## 3dbinCanada

My sub at the starting of Edge Of Tomorrow... I've not know bass in a flick like the start of this one. I took a piece of painters tape which I stuck on and off on a carpet 5 times before putting it on the sub to help show the woofer movement.


www.youtube.com/embed/ghO2UEmZU7s?


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## Scott.C.McMahon

kdaq said:


> There was this one recording, though. It was jazz, I forgot the artist. The thing about it was that the band was playing together in a room, and you could hear _the room_. Spacial cues to the brain or something, I don't know, but it was unmistakeable. We got up and turned off the sub. *poof*, the room was gone. Turned the sub back on, and it clicked right into focus again.


Being a huge jazz fan, I really would like to know what recording this was. Can you please check with your friend?

Thanks


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## Scott.C.McMahon

So I bought a F12 for my 2 channel setup a little less than a month ago. It's in a 1000 cubic foot room. I LOVE IT!!

Now I'm thinking that I want some Rythmik for my HT setup as well. The room that the sub is going into is open to other areas of the house and is (totally guessing here) about 3500 cubic feet total. I wish that Rhythmik had a ported sub priced in between the LV12R and the FV15HP because it's a pretty drastic price difference. As is stands, I don't think the FV15HP would pass WAF as well.

My question: Would the ported LV12R in 3500 cu ft be anywhere near the F12 in 1000 cu ft?

Thanks in advance guys!!!


----------



## kdaq

Scott.C.McMahon said:


> Being a huge jazz fan, I really would like to know what recording this was. Can you please check with your friend?
> 
> Thanks


Sure Scott, I'll ask.



Scott.C.McMahon said:


> My question: Would the ported LV12R in 3500 cu ft be anywhere near the F12 in 1000 cu ft?


I have my LV12R in about 1900 cu ft. It's amazing, but there are clear dead spots (even with XT32). I think a second LV12R would be perfect to me in this space. Of course, this is a bit of a subjective subject, and I'm not sure how average I am. I'd like to think I value neutral, accurate response, but maybe I like a little emphasized low end sometimes.

I'm no expert but I expect that you may find a single LV12R to be lacking in 3500 cu ft. On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if two LV12Rs served you better in that space than a single FV15HP.


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## bkeeler10

Scott.C.McMahon said:


> I wish that Rhythmik had a ported sub priced in between the LV12R and the FV15HP because it's a pretty drastic price difference. As is stands, I don't think the FV15HP would pass WAF as well.


There used to be a sub between the FV15HP and the LV12, called the FV15 (not HP), but it was discontinued. However, I believe there is a new sub planned that would fill that gap again. I believe they're calling it the FVX15. I don't know when it will be available, however, and I'm not sure the WAF will be any higher for it than for the current FV15HP.


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## theJman

Scott.C.McMahon said:


> My question: Would the ported LV12R in 3500 cu ft be anywhere near the F12 in 1000 cu ft?


I suspect the LV12R would struggle to cope with that much space, especially when asked to perform HT duties (which require both depth and output). Would duals pass the WAF test? A pair might do it.


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## Insearchof

theJman said:


> I suspect the LV12R would struggle to cope with that much space, especially when asked to perform HT duties (which require both depth and output). Would duals pass the WAF test? A pair might do it.


In your opinion, would it handle that much space for music from an output standpoint? With the exception of some dubstep or club, most music doesn't have stuff down low.


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## theJman

Insearchof said:


> In your opinion, would it handle that much space for music from an output standpoint? With the exception of some dubstep or club, most music doesn't have stuff down low.


If your expectations are reasonable it should be alright. It may not prove to be an enveloping representation of the material, but since the LV12R has solid output I don't imagine it would be weak either.


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## kdaq

Scott.C.McMahon said:


> Being a huge jazz fan, I really would like to know what recording this was. Can you please check with your friend?
> Thanks


Scott,

It was off the album Moanin' by Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers, song was either The Drum Thunder Suite or Moanin', not sure which.

Cheers,

-Kevin


----------



## Scott.C.McMahon

theJman said:


> I suspect the LV12R would struggle to cope with that much space, especially when asked to perform HT duties (which require both depth and output). Would duals pass the WAF test? A pair might do it.


I think I read somewhere that the LV12R was +2.5db over the F12. It might have been on Rhythmik's website. I can't find it now. I also need to measure the space because I was only guessing 3500 cu ft. That could be way off.


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## Scott.C.McMahon

theJman said:


> Would duals pass the WAF test? A pair might do it.


Well, I have some bad news. I just measured that space and it is 5300 cubic feet. That is much larger than I thought. I have a space in the basement that I will be building in the next few months that will be a dedicated theater space. In the meantime, this LV12R was going to be in the 5300 space upstairs to hold me over until everything gets moved to the 2100 cu ft space downstairs. At that time, I was either going to get another LV12R to have duals OR sell the LV12R and get a single FV15HP.

Either way I go with sub choice, I will get minidsp to tame response a bit.

I would get 10% off either choice. Dual LVr12's would be 1080 shipped. A single FV15HP would be 1289 shipped.

Thoughts?


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## theJman

Thoughts? That a single FV15HP might not be sufficient in a 5300 ft^3 room. I've heard one of those beasts in person, and there's no doubt it can do a lot, but the amount of space you have may be more than it can handle. For music, maybe, but for HT I have my reservations.


----------



## Downhome Upstate

*LV12R vs. GR SW-12-04 w/A370PEQ & DIY cabs?*

Hi folks,

For my all music setup, I'm trying to decide between stereo pairs of either LV12Rs, or putting together Danny Richie's DIY cabinets for the GR Research SW-12-4 drivers and the Rythmik 370 watt PEQ plate amps, for a little more money than the LV12Rs. From what I've read here, the LV12Rs are great for music, and so this is not one of those sealed vs. ported sub questions.

Does the additional flexibility that the A370PEQ amps provide make a significant difference in accurately dialing-in the subs in my 2300 cu. ft. room? 

Or, am I asking the wrong question? (For example, should I be thinking about doing EQ exclusively in the digital realm instead of taking advantage of more configuration options with the PEQ amps in the analog realm?)

Thanks in advance for your help.

Mike


----------



## theJman

I suppose it depends upon what your definition of "significant" is. Since I have few DIY skills I would probably opt for the LV12R; that's a 'turn key' system which has been designed holistically by someone with more experience than myself. That means all the heavy lifting has been done by a person schooled in such things. YMMV of course.


----------



## Downhome Upstate

theJman said:


> I suppose it depends upon what your definition of "significant" is. Since I have few DIY skills I would probably opt for the LV12R; that's a 'turn key' system which has been designed holistically by someone with more experience than myself. That means all the heavy lifting has been done by a person schooled in such things. YMMV of course.


Jim,

Fair enough. FWIW, I have read and enjoyed a couple of your reviews, and I respect your opinion. Let me ask about your experience. I believe that you have auditioned or reviewed some of the more expensive Rythmik subs that come with the mid-range A370PEQ amps as standard equipment. Did you find the additional tweaks available with those amps (as compared to the LV12R amps) made a _big_ improvement when it came to dialing in your system? Or was the difference relatively minor? I'm just trying to get a general sense of the practical benefit of the additional functionality that comes with those amplifiers. It would be great from where I sit (and from the perspective of my bank account) if the LV12Rs did everything I needed. Thanks for taking the time.

Best regards,

Mike


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## theJman

You emphasized "big" in italics, which implies you're expecting something rather extraordinary. Depending upon your circumstances that may or may not be what you achieve.

If your receiver doesn't have any type of auto EQ (Audyssey, YPAO, etc) then all the controls on the higher end amps would prove beneficial, allowing you to tailor the output to your preferences. But if you do have one of the advanced EQ systems then those extra functions could be less important because your electronics might provide a workable substitute.

They proved advantageous for me because I like to tinker and fine tune, perhaps more than most, but unless you're into minutia as well they could just be superfluous.


----------



## Insearchof

I finally pulled the trigger on an LV12r and it arrived yesterday. I unboxed it and set it next to the center channel speaker where the previous sub had been and sounded best. The port opening is about 4-5 inches off the front wall. I didn't run YPAO yet but set it manually at 60hz (same as preivous sub) and played a ton of music last night while trying different settings on the amp. I didn't try it with any movies yet as it's not really my priority at this point. My focus is the music and deciding if I'm keeping this.
A couple of quick questions for current owners:
How long did it take to break in? Does the break in period really make a difference with the servo control?
Also, Does anybody think these have too much detail with music? I noticed almost too much texture and definition of bass with music.
The texture I'm hearing seems to happen in music that was recorded with an actual bass player.
It's not nearly as pronounced in electronic music with synth bass lines.
Is this excruciating detail the nature of the LV12r's sound? Will a break in period make a difference?
One last thought, I'm running the gain at about 3/4 to get the output I'm looking for. Too hot before its had a sufficient break in period?


----------



## theJman

There is indeed a break-in period, which is essentially time for the surround and spider to loosen up a little. The difference won't be significant, from an audible standpoint, but generally what happens is you hear a 'softening' of the sound; in the beginning it tends to be a bit sharper before things loosen up.

I've never heard anyone say that a subwoofer had "too much texture", but there's a first time for everything I suppose. Is it possible you're just not used to hearing all the detail? What sub did you have before? It might have been a very poor performer, and if so you could have become accustomed to sloppy bass.


----------



## Insearchof

Thanks Jman, I'm also wondering if I'm just not used to what seems to me to be explicit detail.
I'm coming from an Emptek Es1010i which sounded fairly articulate to me but IMO was lacking in the extension department. As it broke in, It got better in the output and extension department but still wasn't enough.
Maybe I am looking for a softening of the sound as you mentioned and will try to get this more broken in over the next week or two. 
I have listened critically to other well reviewed ID subs (SVS and HSU) and have never heard this type of detail in those.
I like how both those companies' subs sound and seriously considered those before going with Rythmik as they aren't usually considered bloated, loose or one note wonders.
Any thoughts on pointing the port away from the wall? Maybe placing the sub parallel to the wall as opposed to perpendicular? Am I possibly picking up on some kind of cone/port noise?
Another thought, this thing doesn't seem to move much air at the port...well, with music anyways.
I played some of my favorite test tracks that barely made this sub breeze at the port. The room was pulsing to the music though. Hehe


----------



## theJman

Any type of untoward sounds would not be interpreted as detail, so I doubt you're hearing cone or port noises. 5-6 inches of space between the sub and rear wall should be fine. I suspect there's no issue there either.

The amount of air movement will be in direct relation to how hard the driver is work. As long as the sound/output is to your liking I wouldn't concern myself with the volume of air exiting the port. Does the Ferrari driver care how hard his engine is working, or does he just concern himself with how fast the car is going?


----------



## bkeeler10

Insearchof, 

I would say your statements about having perhaps too much detail are a testament to Rythmik's servo control and design MO. That's the point, and Rythmik's calling card really, the thing that most differentiates them from anything else. It's even rather telling that you're hearing things from your new sub that you didn't hear from other very well regarded subs (like SVS).

I don't currently own a Rythmik (though it will be my next sub), so I don't know whether it will "soften up." But your comments reinforce that the intent of Rythmik is well represented in their products. 

The nice thing about Rythmik is that the amp offers enough adjustability that you can probably tone that level of detail down a bit using the damping and extension settings, if you want to experiment a bit.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

Insearchof,

If I may add some comments in to the detail. I too have an LV12-R and its very detailed in its bass delivery. I've even heard pitch changes in explosions found in some movie soundtracks, a first for me. I was listening at slightly above conversation SPL so I know I was not over driving the unit. Jim was correct in stating that Rythmik is letting you hear the bass that your previous sub smeared. The Rthymik totally outperforms PSB subsonic 5 which it replaced in terms of articulation and extension. The PSB had a commendably flat frequency response as well but the Rythmik is simply, just a far better sub.


----------



## Insearchof

I'm going to keep testing the amp's available settings while letting it break in and see if it takes some of the edge off the sound. 
I think this will be a great sub once broken in but I'm on the fence right now and while I really, really want to love this sub, I'm not sure if this persists that the sonic signature of the LV12r is for me. I'll know better in a week or so.
I plan to let it play away while I'm at work to speed up the break in.


----------



## willis7469

Insearchof, I know everyone has their own taste, so I'm not questioning yours, but I'm really wondering what it is about the extra articulation you find off putting.


----------



## tx56tn86ga06

I have had my LV12R sub for a few months now and I am quite pleased with it so far. I am thinking about adding a second LV12R and I wanted to get some feedback from fellow owners that have duals. My room is the classic above the garage bonus room with knee walls along the side. However, about half-way down on one side the room opens up so it is L-shaped. The room is at least 3000 sq ft. I am running a 5.1 system with all Ascend HTM-200 SE speakers.

I look forward to reading for your comments.


----------



## Insearchof

Insearchof, I know everyone has their own taste, so I'm not questioning yours, but I'm really wondering what it is about the extra articulation you find off putting.

Sorry, meant to quote this and hit QR by accident....


It's a little difficult to describe. 
Probably the best way to describe what I'm hearing would be to call it a deep growl with bass lines from actual bass players. It's like I'm hearing more than just the intended note - something that was captured in the recording of the bass line whether it's a 5 string, fretless or upright. It's completely revealing but also IMO muddies up the actual notes. Some kind of harmonics of the instrument I'm not used to hearing. 
On most electronic/synth bass lines, that explicit texture isn't there. I generally hear the note and the note only. 
That description probably doesn't help much.

ETA:If this is normal of the LV12r, it's ruining some of my go to songs due to its revealing nature. They weren't recorded well evidently.


----------



## RajLives

Hi,
I'm brand new to the forum and wanted some thoughts on the LVR12 in my space. I emailed Rythmik using their web form a few days ago and haven't heard back yet. I'm anxious to make an order and was hoping I could get some advice.

I just upgraded my receiver to a Yamaha RX-V675 and have some low end speakers, a old pair of infinity sm 85 and an old polk center channel. I'd like to get the LV12R but am not sure if it's overkill. The floor plan is open for the most part, estimate 2000-2500 cubic feet (if I measured right, I couldn't post a link to the floor plan). 

It's an apartment so not looking for anything louder or larger for the most part but open to suggestions.

I have spent a good amount of time on this and ended up at the LV12R. I'd say 40% music. 

Thanks in advance!


----------



## TheLaw612

RajLives said:


> Hi,
> I'm brand new to the forum and wanted some thoughts on the LVR12 in my space. I emailed Rythmik using their web form a few days ago and haven't heard back yet. I'm anxious to make an order and was hoping I could get some advice.
> 
> I just upgraded my receiver to a Yamaha RX-V675 and have some low end speakers, a old pair of infinity sm 85 and an old polk center channel. I'd like to get the LV12R but am not sure if it's overkill. The floor plan is open for the most part, estimate 2000-2500 cubic feet (if I measured right, I couldn't post a link to the floor plan).
> 
> It's an apartment so not looking for anything louder or larger for the most part but open to suggestions.
> 
> I have spent a good amount of time on this and ended up at the LV12R. I'd say 40% music.
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Subs are never overkill because you can always turn them down. I think the LV12R would be perfect for your needs - especially if you can't go any larger. Since it's an apartment you can always turn it down if it's too much but the general rule is to get the best you can afford so there's overhead when you want more boom boom. 

Rythmik is a really small company so it may take Brian or Enrico a few days to get back to you but their customer service is top notch.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

RajLives said:


> Hi,
> I'm brand new to the forum and wanted some thoughts on the LVR12 in my space. I emailed Rythmik using their web form a few days ago and haven't heard back yet. I'm anxious to make an order and was hoping I could get some advice.
> 
> I just upgraded my receiver to a Yamaha RX-V675 and have some low end speakers, a old pair of infinity sm 85 and an old polk center channel. I'd like to get the LV12R but am not sure if it's overkill. The floor plan is open for the most part, estimate 2000-2500 cubic feet (if I measured right, I couldn't post a link to the floor plan).
> 
> It's an apartment so not looking for anything louder or larger for the most part but open to suggestions.
> 
> I have spent a good amount of time on this and ended up at the LV12R. I'd say 40% music.
> 
> Thanks in advance!



I have the LV12R and its an awesome sub...capable of hitting 20 Hz with authority and clean bass at that. The servo makes its perfect for music applications too. Check out my equipment list and gallery.  

Like the Law mentioned, Rthymik is small company and Brian and Eurico are great people to deal with. Their support is top notch. I have dealt with both and they were most helpful. I would receive emails from both of them between 1 and 3 am in the morning answering my questions.

I think the LV12 would be a good fit for you.


----------



## orion

Wow with all the great testimonials I will have to listen to these someday. I love articulate bass, loud and earth shaking are great also so to get both would be great


----------



## RajLives

Thanks for the responses. Still haven't heard back from the company and was looking to make an order but now they are backordered until mid February. Just my luck!


----------



## Insearchof

Now that my LV12R has broken in somewhat, I'm going to add some thoughts.
A little background:
My room is a roughly 3800 cu ft living room with an attached kitchen and open on one end to a long hallway. 
So far, the best place in my room to my ears for this or any sub is directly to the right of my center speaker.
My main LP is roughly 12 ft from the sub.

For movies:
Pretty much the standard fare here - LOTR Trilogy , The Hobbit movies, TDK. The last Underworld movie has some good thump in it too.
I rarely watch a movie without my wife and she despises felt bass. Even dialing this thing back to -5 on the receiver and running the gain back by a quarter on the sub itself, this thing pounds out felt bass in my room. The main LP is in what I believe to be a null and there is still impact there. 
At Christmas we had a house full and we decided to watch Willow on blu-ray. As a good host I left the good seats to the family and stretched out on the floor with a pillow. I didn't make it more than 30 minutes on the floor. The amount of rumble and felt bass was over the top.
For me, this sub handles movies easily and is a rewarding experience. I don't play movies extremely loud but I'm not timid with the volume either. 

For games:
Only 2 games I get a chance to play anymore: BF3 and MW3
Explosions are impressive. Gunfire pops with authority. It's an immersive experience. 
On occassion I do push the volume while playing. Not anything insane but louder than movies. That doesn't stress the LV12r. It handles it and sounds tight and controlled the whole time. 
Explosions don't just rumble and drone on. They shake the room when they should or they just make noise if they should.
Lesser subs I've owned/heard certainly get loud and make noise with these games but are generally incapable of a tactile feel.

For music:
This is my main priority for subs. Currently, I can't afford the floor space/cost for multiple sealed subs towards this end.
IMO, with this sub, that's ok. It never sounds bloated, bloomy, uncontrolled or one noted. For me, It is meticulously controlled and tight for music. 
Styles include blues, jazz, country, EDM, pop and rock.
It will rock out and take what I can assume is only meant to destroy lesser subs.
I have a few new go-to songs to show people what this fairly large black box that's nearly front and center under my tv is for. It never disappoints me to see their reaction to what they feel.
Imo, this sub digs deep and does it cleanly. Bass drops upset weak stomachs. 
I turn music up loud, really loud. Louder than movies or tv. Too loud for most guests. The LV12r never sounds stressed or overworked.
For the 1st week or 2 of listening to this sub before any real break-in, it sounded sterile and too detailed to me with music. I honestly thought I had made a mistake with the purchase and thought that there was something wrong with my hearing. From the reviews I had read, everyone seemed to really like the way the Rythmik sounded but this thing sounded too clean and detailed to me. I decided to give it more time to break-in and I'm glad I did. It's still detailed but now it's like it's more polished and a smoother, finer detail which is exactly what I was looking for.
I honestly only have one wish for the LV12r in my room: Just a bit more output for music. Extension? Great. Detail? Perfect. Control? Has it in spades. But I would be willing to see an even slightly larger enclosure to get a little bit more output without really cranking the dial. Maybe the same footprint but add a few inches of height? That's it. That's the only thing I would want more of. And I've flipped the switches around on the back and listened intently for hours at a time to see what I can get and it's close. Real close. 
I keep thinking about the FV15hp and I think that it may check the box on my last wish for the LV12r and I doubt I could ever get approval from the decorating committee (that I'm not on) for that beast but I'm happy with the Lv12r. For now.


----------



## bkeeler10

Great report, and that's awesome that the sub has mellowed out a bit for you and that you're liking it. Regarding output, that is a rather large room for a single 12" sub of any ilk. I think you said that adding a second doesn't seem to be in the cards, but adding a second would be less expensive than moving to the FV15HP and would get you pretty close to its output.

Thanks for sharing your impressions.


----------



## theJman

Insearchof said:


> I keep thinking about the FV15hp and I think that it may check the box on my last wish for the LV12r and I doubt I could ever get approval from the decorating committee (that I'm not on) for that beast but I'm happy with the Lv12r. For now.


I've heard both the LV12R and FV15HP with my own two ears and I can say unequivocally that there is no comparison. From my review you can tell I really liked the former, but the latter is in a completely different category. Other than its size - which is rather large - the FV15HP has absolutely no drawbacks.


----------



## Johnny_Mac_III

I'm looking at getting 2 LV12Rs. I can't seem to find a CEA - 2010 rating. What is the decibel rating at 20hz? Thanks for your time.


----------



## tx56tn86ga06

Johnny_Mac_III said:


> I'm looking at getting 2 LV12Rs. I can't seem to find a CEA - 2010 rating. What is the decibel rating at 20hz? Thanks for your time.


I asked a similar question a few weeks ago and I did not get a response. I have seen several comments where members say they have owned dual LV12R's, but again, no one responded. I have one LV12R now and I still haven't had enough time on it to get it just right. I have to say when I was watching the Pacific for the first time a few days ago, I was really impressed with the sub and my modest 5.1 system with Ascend HTM-200 SE speakers. 

During the airfield battle scenes I was tense because of the audio and visuals - wow. My room is over 3000 sq ft and I have been told that I need to add another LV12R to pressurize the room. I can't see spending over $1200 for the Rythmik FV15HP when it is likely a second LV12R will put me in subwoofer euphoria. 

Hopefully, someone else will provide feedback.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

tx56tn86ga06 said:


> I asked a similar question a few weeks ago and I did not get a response. I have seen several comments where members say they have owned dual LV12R's, but again, no one responded. I have one LV12R now and I still haven't had enough time on it to get it just right. I have to say when I was watching the Pacific for the first time a few days ago, I was really impressed with the sub and my modest 5.1 system with Ascend HTM-200 SE speakers.
> 
> During the airfield battle scenes I was tense because of the audio and visuals - wow. My room is over 3000 sq ft and I have been told that I need to add another LV12R to pressurize the room. I can't see spending over $1200 for the Rythmik FV15HP when it is likely a second LV12R will put me in subwoofer euphoria.
> 
> Hopefully, someone else will provide feedback.


Another LV12R will smooth out the bass response in the room and increase the level at 20Hz by 3db I think. Have you contacted Rythmik and did you see the review of the LV12R by J-MAN?


----------



## tx56tn86ga06

3dbinCanada,

Thanks for the response. Yes, I read J-Man's LV12R review and that was largely the deciding factor in going with the LV12R sub. I have exchanged notes with Enrico at Rythmik and he told me I would need another sub to pressurize my 3000 sq ft room. I wanted to get some feedback from other members that had experience with dual LV12R's before I place my order.


----------



## theJman

tx56tn86ga06 said:


> Thanks for the response. Yes, I read J-Man's LV12R review and that was largely the deciding factor in going with the LV12R sub. I have exchanged notes with Enrico at Rythmik and he told me I would need another sub to pressurize my 3000 sq ft room. I wanted to get some feedback from other members that had experience with dual LV12R's before I place my order.


A pair of LV12R's won't be able to dig quite as low as a single FV15HP can, but your advantage with the former is 3dB if they're separated and 6dB co-located. Those may sound like paltry gains but in essence 3dB is perceived aurally as double the output, so it's certainly not insignificant. As mentioned by some of the others, if properly placed duals will provide a smoother overall frequency response as well. Double bonus.

While I'll admit to being a huge fan of the FV15HP, given your situation I'm not certain it's the best approach to take. You seem to really enjoy the LV12R so adding a second would give you more of a good thing. And, it keeps more $$ in your pocket. No downside to any of that really.


----------



## tx56tn86ga06

Jim,

Thanks for the comments. I will likely go with the second LV12R, but you sure make the FV15HP sound interesting. Did you go from the LV12R to the FV15HP? If so, what drove your decision?


----------



## theJman

I did a formal review of the LV12R, which can be found here. I heard the FV15HP at a GTG about a year and a half back. It was put through a torture test of brutal content that lasted about 25-30 minutes and it did quite well.


----------



## Johnny_Mac_III

I wanted to update everyone. After talking with with Jim, reading reviews, and talking to Rythmik; about a month and a half ago I purchased an LV12r to go with my Ascend CMT-340 se fronts and center and Ascend HTM-200 se surrounds.

I have to say this $500 sub is VERY musical. It blends very well with the system. I find that in my 1900 cubic foot room that Mid extension setting seems to be what I favor the most. I actually like high the best, but it just doesn't do it for movies ( I believe, because the extension gets compromised in the process). 

Having said that, I've gotten a taste of such a good thing and think I might have upgradeitus already :dumbcrazy:

I was thinking if I got a F12,F15, or FV15; I could get my lower extension while still being able to keep the high damping (which I am a big fan of). Does the .5 damping setting work for movies if the low extension is still preserved on those models? Or should .5 damping be avoided for movies. If so, I will just keep my LV12r, because the only reason I would be going for a different model is to get a tighter sound that would work in movies as well. 

Or...I just get another LV12r this summer and even out the bass in the room and eradicate those nulls? Would something like Audyssey xt32 allow me to set my LV12r to Low 1.1 (19hz) and give me a tighter bass sound like a .5 damping setting would give?


----------



## theJman

I'm glad you're enjoying the LV12R! It's certainly proven to be a jack-of-all-trades.

I'd skip the F12; nice sub, for sure, but it would be a step in a different direction than where you want to head. Regardless of which one you go for note that High Damping will set a limiter in the same mid-upper 20Hz range. While the FV15 will have more overall 'presence', it will still seem neutered on bass-heavy movies. Cutting off a full octave will be noticeable either way.

Adding a 2nd LV12R could (key word) help you even out nulls. I say "could" because it's all placement dependent. If you're only options aren't conducive to filling in those dead spot than it won't help in that regard. The misconception is that multiple subwoofers instantly solves all such issues, but that's simply not the case. Unless you can place them in the correct locations you may end up making the situation worse. Note that no matter how many LV12R's you get the extension will not be lower; a sub can extend only so deep, and no matter how many of them you have that doesn't change. You'll achieve greater total output, yes, but not deeper bass.

Audyssey can not change the damping factor. Think of it as a fancy EQ, where the primary goal is to flatten the overall frequency response. In this case it can also balance out the individual channel levels, but it can't alter the inherent design characters of a speaker or subwoofer.


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## Johnny_Mac_III

Thanks Jim. I will go with another LV12r since the high damping factor will do the same thing on the other subs. It's really a great sub, especially for the money.


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## 3dbinCanada

I'm still lovin mine


----------



## theJman

Certainly worth the asking price, eh?


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## 3dbinCanada

theJman said:


> Certainly worth the asking price, eh?


Most definately is. I just wish they would get more of their products tested by the folks at 

http://www.data-bass.com..maybe drum up more business. I do hear they are swamped in orders so business must be doing really well for them.


----------



## nathan_h

3dbinCanada said:


> Most definately is. I just wish they would get more of their products tested by the folks at
> 
> http://www.data-bass.com..maybe drum up more business. I do hear they are swamped in orders so business must be doing really well for them.


Their published specs, numbers and tests are quite reliable.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

nathan_h said:


> Their published specs, numbers and tests are quite reliable.


I believe their measurements are very reliable but that was not my point I was after.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

New subs which appears to be based on teh same driver as the LV12R

Rythmik offers two more subs based on the same driver found on the LV12-R

A sealed sub with one driver: (L12) for $569.00
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12_specs.html

A sealed sub with two drivers (L22) for $899.00
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L22_specs.html


----------



## overthebars

Great thread here guys, thanks for all the info. New subscriber here that just purchased an LV12R, but they are back-ordered until the end of January which is probably a good thing, showing their popularity. It also gives me some time to save up and decide if I want to chip in the extra to go up to the FVX-15... My room is 18x18, but opens up to the kitchen on one end, so a 12" is just barely adequate. I've had an Outlaw LFM-1 for 7 years, and I was happy with the performance, but I've had many issues with the BASH amplifier... I'm on my third one, and I do not even work this thing very hard. The wife doesn't like a lot of bass, so it just hasn't been pushed hard at all.

Looking forward to the servo control on this Rythmik because I'm more about the quality than the quantity, and I hope the amp will last more than a couple years! , the tube amp in my listening room is 25 years old!

Take care.


----------



## theJman

overthebars said:


> Great thread here guys, thanks for all the info. New subscriber here that just purchased an LV12R, but they are back-ordered until the end of January which is probably a good thing, showing their popularity. It also gives me some time to save up and decide if I want to chip in the extra to go up to the FVX-15... My room is 18x18, but opens up to the kitchen on one end, so a 12" is just barely adequate. I've had an Outlaw LFM-1 for 7 years, and I was happy with the performance, but I've had many issues with the BASH amplifier... I'm on my third one, and I do not even work this thing very hard. The wife doesn't like a lot of bass, so it just hasn't been pushed hard at all.
> 
> Looking forward to the servo control on this Rythmik because I'm more about the quality than the quantity, and I hope the amp will last more than a couple years! , the tube amp in my listening room is 25 years old!
> 
> Take care.


If the LFM-1 was sufficient from an output and depth perspective then the LV12R should not disappoint. After you have it all tuned and fully broken in be sure to come back and post your opinion.


----------



## overthebars

I will definitely come back and share my opinion, and It will be much sooner than I thought.... Lynn at Rythmik contacted me yesterday and let me know they had a blemish unit in stock, so I snagged it and saved myself a 6-8 week wait. Merry Christmas to me! Best thing about it is the blemish will be hidden behind the grill. Now I'm getting excited!


----------



## 3dbinCanada

overthebars said:


> I will definitely come back and share my opinion, and It will be much sooner than I thought.... Lynn at Rythmik contacted me yesterday and let me know they had a blemish unit in stock, so I snagged it and saved myself a 6-8 week wait. Merry Christmas to me! Best thing about it is the blemish will be hidden behind the grill. Now I'm getting excited!


Congrats BTW.. I really like mine....


----------



## overthebars

Got the LV12R last Wednesday, got it set up, and ran it pretty hard over the long holiday.... Very impressed! It seems to have about the same amount of output as the LFM-1, but it definitely sounds better, and has better articulation at low volumes. 

It had very good output on all of my test Blu-ray's, and it is very apparent that the servo keeps the woofer under control on sudden explosions and other bass peaks. I was most impressed while watching the Bourne Identity while family was over on low volume and noticing how much detail was still produced at far below reference level.

On Sunday my son played the new Battlefield 4 video game on the Xbox One, and it was honestly jaw dropping. The amount of output produced during this game from gun shots, grenade explosions, sniper fire, etc. was crazy, and just so composed, clean, and detailed from this sub.

Very happy owner!


----------



## theJman

I'm glad it worked out so well for you. I can't even begin to tell you how many people have made similar comments to me since the review was published (on this forum as well as several others). Rythmik certainly appears to have hit one out of the park with the LV12R.


----------



## 3dbinCanada

overthebars said:


> Got the LV12R last Wednesday, got it set up, and ran it pretty hard over the long holiday.... Very impressed! It seems to have about the same amount of output as the LFM-1, but it definitely sounds better, and has better articulation at low volumes.
> 
> It had very good output on all of my test Blu-ray's, and it is very apparent that the servo keeps the woofer under control on sudden explosions and other bass peaks. I was most impressed while watching the Bourne Identity while family was over on low volume and noticing how much detail was still produced at far below reference level.
> 
> On Sunday my son played the new Battlefield 4 video game on the Xbox One, and it was honestly jaw dropping. The amount of output produced during this game from gun shots, grenade explosions, sniper fire, etc. was crazy, and just so composed, clean, and detailed from this sub.
> 
> Very happy owner!


Congrats on the LV12-R !!! Its Jim's fault I bought one after reading his review. :T Its the best purchase I ever made.


----------



## morca

Have any of you had problem,s of missng scew,s.
A friend his F12 has come in but there is a air /screw hole in je plateamp.
The box contains a screw but is is not the right one.


----------



## vidiot33

morca said:


> Have any of you had problem,s of missng scew,s. A friend his F12 has come in but there is a air /screw hole in je plateamp. The box contains a screw but is is not the right one.


 I would call and/or shoot them an email. They will definitely take care of you and make it right. I know from personal experience.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

morca said:


> Have any of you had problem,s of missng scew,s.
> A friend his F12 has come in but there is a air /screw hole in je plateamp.
> The box contains a screw but is is not the right one.


It's a bit difficult to translate this, but it seems like you're having an issue with an F12? If so, a thread directly associated to the LV12R review is probably not the best place to post this. It would be better to start a new thread dedicated to your particular concern.


----------



## fogyreef

3dbinCanada said:


> New subs which appears to be based on teh same driver as the LV12R
> 
> Rythmik offers two more subs based on the same driver found on the LV12-R
> 
> A sealed sub with one driver: (L12) for $569.00
> http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L12_specs.html
> 
> A sealed sub with two drivers (L22) for $899.00
> http://www.rythmikaudio.com/L22_specs.html


Just when I thought it was safe to go to the shopping cart. :foottap:

This year some HT equipment came crashing down the chimney, but no speakers. 

Phase one is complete: Proof of concept: temp Silver Ticket grey screen (light rejecting silver material on back order for testing), PJ-on-a-box soon to be ceiling mounted, dejected TV on floor providing sound. 

I just bought two Chane A5 towers, an A2 center and 6 A1s on my way to a 9.4.4... unless you save me from myself. I see lots of advice about going from one to two subs, and occasionally three, but I don't see that much about four. Is four a white whale, or will the room below warrant it?

The greatroom is 19' front to back x 30' incl. kit. x offcenter-vaulted popcorn 12'(ave 10'9"?). Kitchen to the left, hall/wall/office to the rear. MLP is 13' from a 120", 5' from the back wall. The apex of the vault is biased 4' from the front wall. For extra points the fireplace sticks out about 3'.

     

 

The receiver is an Onkyo TX NR-1030 (135W) with an Onkyo M-5010 (75w) 2ch amp to drive a pair of highs. It's got four sub preouts that I believe take up only two channels, thus allowing the 9.4.4 in my head.

Being new yet curmudgeonly I was leaning towards four LV12-Rs guessing four would even out the crazy room and fill it up. Dunno about pressurizing, but the hole where my wallet used to be sure is pressurizing. Now along comes the sealed L22, and my thinker blew a gasket.

Specific questions:


Is four subs appropriate for this room?
Are the LV12Rs sufficient for movies for this room?
Would three (or :spend: four) sealed-yet-2x12" L22's be something worth thinking about instead?

Bonus questions while I'm here:

Regarding the sides; considering the kitchen column in the last picture is 10' from the MLP as the most aesthetic place to put the side, and the fireplace side would be 8' from the other MLP side all tucked in the corner by the window, would the protruding fireplace kill the image if the side is still oriented straight at the MLP?
If we pulled it to the edge of the fireplace it would be 1/2 the distance the other side would be. Can AVR correction correct that, or does the kitchen side have to come (way) closer?

Thanks!


----------



## 3dbinCanada

fogyreef said:


> Just when I thought it was safe to go to the shopping cart. :foottap:
> 
> This year some HT equipment came crashing down the chimney, but no speakers.
> 
> Phase one is complete: Proof of concept: temp Silver Ticket grey screen (light rejecting silver material on back order for testing), PJ-on-a-box soon to be ceiling mounted, dejected TV on floor providing sound.
> 
> I just bought two Chane A5 towers, an A2 center and 6 A1s on my way to a 9.4.4... unless you save me from myself. I see lots of advice about going from one to two subs, and occasionally three, but I don't see that much about four. Is four a white whale, or will the room below warrant it?
> 
> The greatroom is 19' front to back x 30' incl. kit. x offcenter-vaulted popcorn 12'(ave 10'9"?). Kitchen to the left, hall/wall/office to the rear. MLP is 13' from a 120", 5' from the back wall. The apex of the vault is biased 4' from the front wall. For extra points the fireplace sticks out about 3'.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The receiver is an Onkyo TX NR-1030 (135W) with an Onkyo M-5010 (75w) 2ch amp to drive a pair of highs. It's got four sub preouts that I believe take up only two channels, thus allowing the 9.4.4 in my head.
> 
> Being new yet curmudgeonly I was leaning towards four LV12-Rs guessing four would even out the crazy room and fill it up. Dunno about pressurizing, but the hole where my wallet used to be sure is pressurizing. Now along comes the sealed L22, and my thinker blew a gasket.
> 
> Specific questions:
> 
> 
> Is four subs appropriate for this room?
> Are the LV12Rs sufficient for movies for this room?
> Would three (or :spend: four) sealed-yet-2x12" L22's be something worth thinking about instead?
> 
> Bonus questions while I'm here:
> 
> Regarding the sides; considering the kitchen column in the last picture is 10' from the MLP as the most aesthetic place to put the side, and the fireplace side would be 8' from the other MLP side all tucked in the corner by the window, would the protruding fireplace kill the image if the side is still oriented straight at the MLP?
> If we pulled it to the edge of the fireplace it would be 1/2 the distance the other side would be. Can AVR correction correct that, or does the kitchen side have to come (way) closer?
> 
> Thanks!


That's a big area to pressurize. I'm thinking that two Rythmik FV15HP strategically placed would serve you better than 4 LV12-R .


----------



## theJman

fogyreef said:


> Bonus questions while I'm here:
> 
> Regarding the sides; considering the kitchen column in the last picture is 10' from the MLP as the most aesthetic place to put the side, and the fireplace side would be 8' from the other MLP side all tucked in the corner by the window, would the protruding fireplace kill the image if the side is still oriented straight at the MLP?
> If we pulled it to the edge of the fireplace it would be 1/2 the distance the other side would be. Can AVR correction correct that, or does the kitchen side have to come (way) closer?


I've read these two questions over several times but I still can't discern what your asking. Can you expand on these some?



fogyreef said:


> Specific questions:
> 
> 
> Is four subs appropriate for this room?
> Are the LV12Rs sufficient for movies for this room?
> Would three (or :spend: four) sealed-yet-2x12" L22's be something worth thinking about instead?



Can you add some context to "appropriate"?
Yes.
Yes.
However, I do see an issue; location. Or more accurately, locations.

It's not often a subwoofer will sound the best where it looks the best, and for sure you can't just plop them down anywhere and get good results. In order to properly balance them you have to use measurement equipment or do the "sub crawl" (if you google that term you'll find a ton of info on it). In either case, you'll need freedom to place the units where they won't be fighting it out with each other. Barring that, they might actually end up creating quite the sonic mess. Of course, the more subs the more complex it can be. Judging by the pictures it appears there aren't a lot of places to install that many subs, so you may want to consider a different strategy.

You have a rather large amount of cubic volume to fill, so you will need a lot of output. Given your situation, what about dual FV15HP's instead? Those are very potent subs - especially in one port mode - and a pair of those would have enough output and depth to satisfy your needs. There's also two advantages to this approach; a pair of FV15HP's are cheaper than 4 L22's, and you would only have to find suitable locations for two units instead of four. Double bonus right there.


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## Insearchof

Just a quick update as I haven't added to this thread in a while.

I think I have settled on a 2nd LV12R. Due to some furniture arrangements being changed soon that's about all I'll have space for and it'll probably just barely fit.
I had almost convinced myself to go DIY and throw together a MartyCube to use as an end table when our furniture replacement became a priority. With the new furniture, I can't seem to find a good spot for a Martycube. It's just too large.
So, it looks like a 2nd LV12R is in the cards instead which isn't a bad thing and I'm sure the 2 Rythmiks will have a better SQ than anything I can build. The thought of integrating the Martycube with the current LV12R was keeping me awake at night. I know I could do it, but I wasn't sure exactly how I'd end up going about it.
Hoping to grab a couple of Chane towers and their center around the same time. 
If everything pans out in the next few months, I'll post back my thoughts on dual LV12R's.


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## bkeeler10

fogyreef said:


> The receiver is an Onkyo TX NR-1030 (135W) with an Onkyo M-5010 (75w) 2ch amp to drive a pair of highs. It's got four sub preouts that I believe take up only two channels, thus allowing the 9.4.4 in my head.


Keep in mind that no receiver currently available can run a 9.x.4 system (unless you want to pay $20k for a Trinnov). You may have 13.1 outputs, but you won't be able to use more than 11.1 outputs at a time. Some receivers provide 13.1 outputs so you can have speakers placed and calibrated at 13 locations. This allows you to switch between 7.1.4 and 9.1.2 Atmos systems if you want, or use an upmixing mode that utilizes wides for non-Atmos tracks, while using overheads for Atmos tracks. But again, you won't be able to run 9.x.4 all at the same time. For Atmos, you will max out at 9.1.2 or 7.1.4.

Of course, we will likely have 9.1.4 or even 9.1.6 capability in the future at reasonable prices, so if running wires for it now will be easier than doing it later, definitely run the wires now.


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## fogyreef

theJman said:


> I've read these two questions over several times but I still can't discern what your asking. Can you expand on these some?


Thanks Jim. For placing the side surround on the left the most convenient spot would be on a stand up against the column between the kitchen and nook. That's 10' from the edge of the couch, out of foot traffic.

 

For the side on the right, approximating equal distance would put the speaker against the window, tucked up against the fireplace behind the waving decoration, for a distance of 8'. Both left and right sides would be 90 degrees from the MLP.

 

Rewording the questions:

 Would tucking the speaker in the corner with the fireplace blocking the sound going to the front of the room and bouncing it to the back ruin the surround image?
 If so, and I moved the speaker to the front of the fireplace it would now be 5' to the right side of the couch compared to 10' for the left side speaker. Would that difference be too much for room correction to overcome? 



> Can you add some context to "appropriate"?


Appropriate meaning enough to fill the room, smooth the room, not overwhelm the room, not be overkill, etc. In short, a good idea.



> However, I do see an issue; location. Or more accurately, locations.


I was indeed looking forward to figuring out a crawl with four subs. I'll go revisit the FV15HP idea. Thanks for your input.


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## fogyreef

bkeeler10 said:


> Keep in mind that no receiver currently available can run a 9.x.4 system (unless you want to pay $20k for a Trinnov). You may have 13.1 outputs, but you won't be able to use more than 11.1 outputs at a time. Some receivers provide 13.1 outputs so you can have speakers placed and calibrated at 13 locations. This allows you to switch between 7.1.4 and 9.1.2 Atmos systems if you want, or use an upmixing mode that utilizes wides for non-Atmos tracks, while using overheads for Atmos tracks. But again, you won't be able to run 9.x.4 all at the same time. For Atmos, you will max out at 9.1.2 or 7.1.4.
> 
> Of course, we will likely have 9.1.4 or even 9.1.6 capability in the future at reasonable prices, so if running wires for it now will be easier than doing it later, definitely run the wires now.


Does this take into account the 2ch external amp running a pair of highs with the 9.2 receiver? 

I asked this earlier in another forum and didn't get an answer, and subsequently thought I figured it out.

 

Onkyo support told me I can run four subs. I took that to mean two channels of two subs each looking at the back of the receiver. Can you tell me what the white squares are indicating in SW1 and SW2?

Regardless, I'm advised to run two 15" subs now.

So I was expecting:
Left Front, Center, Right Front
Left Surround, Right Surround
Left Rear, Right Rear
Ceiling Left, Ceiling Right
Sub, Sub
Amp Height/Wide Left, Amp Height/Wide Right

Recalculating that's what, 9.2.2?


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## bkeeler10

fogyreef said:


> Does this take into account the 2ch external amp running a pair of highs with the 9.2 receiver?
> 
> I asked this earlier in another forum and didn't get an answer, and subsequently thought I figured it out.
> 
> 
> 
> Onkyo support told me I can run four subs. I took that to mean two channels of two subs each looking at the back of the receiver. Can you tell me what the white squares are indicating in SW1 and SW2?
> 
> Regardless, I'm advised to run two 15" subs now.
> 
> So I was expecting:
> Left Front, Center, Right Front
> Left Surround, Right Surround
> Left Rear, Right Rear
> Ceiling Left, Ceiling Right
> Sub, Sub
> Amp Height/Wide Left, Amp Height/Wide Right
> 
> Recalculating that's what, 9.2.2?


It isn't perfectly clear what the white squares indicate, but according to the manual you can connect up to four subs to the unit. And they advertise it as a 9.2 receiver. So my suspicion is that Sub 1 and the corresponding jack in the white square represent one sub "channel" (the two connectors are the equivalent of an external Y-connector), while Sub 2 and the white-squared jack below it are the other sub "channel." I also suspect that they are different channels only with regard to being able to set distances and levels differently on each set of jacks. At any rate, those white-squared jacks are only for sub channels.

The receiver has nine channels of amplification, and so could run a 7.x.2 or a 5.x.4 system without external amplification. Adding the two-channel amplifier will allow you to run a 9.x.2 or 7.x.4 system. 9.x.2 would be the regular 7 channels, plus a pair of heights (overheads), plus a pair of wides. The 7.x.4 option would be the regular 7 channels, plus two pairs of heights (overheads).


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## fogyreef

bkeeler10 said:


> It isn't perfectly clear what the white squares indicate, but according to the manual you can connect up to four subs to the unit. And they advertise it as a 9.2 receiver. So my suspicion is that Sub 1 and the corresponding jack in the white square represent one sub "channel" (the two connectors are the equivalent of an external Y-connector), while Sub 2 and the white-squared jack below it are the other sub "channel." I also suspect that they are different channels only with regard to being able to set distances and levels differently on each set of jacks. At any rate, those white-squared jacks are only for sub channels.
> 
> The receiver has nine channels of amplification, and so could run a 7.x.2 or a 5.x.4 system without external amplification. Adding the two-channel amplifier will allow you to run a 9.x.2 or 7.x.4 system. 9.x.2 would be the regular 7 channels, plus a pair of heights (overheads), plus a pair of wides. The 7.x.4 option would be the regular 7 channels, plus two pairs of heights (overheads).


Which brings me to my last question; With the Atmos track information you said above, would you prefer mounting the wides high for a compromise between high and wide, or would you still go four ceilings?


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## bkeeler10

Keeping in mind that I don't have an Atmos system myself (waiting to move to a new house sometime this year before diving in to Atmos) . . . but I have done a ton of reading on the subject. 

First of all, if you go with 9.1.2 (with wides), you should definitely have the wides at about the same height as the front left and right. That's where the Atmos renderer expects them to be and sounds will be sent to them accordingly.

As far as 9.1.2 vs 7.1.4, there are opinions on both sides of course, but it seems like the general consensus of people using Atmos is that 7.1.4 is a better choice than 9.1.2 (assuming you can place speakers according to Dolby's spec in both cases). Having said that, I would suggest experimenting with both if you are able to before doing the final installation. If that is impractical, I would suggest installing for 7.1.4 and being prepared to add wides when there are affordable receivers that can do 9.1.4.

What's this thread about again!?


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## fogyreef

bkeeler10 said:


> What's this thread about again!?


Haha. I joined the thread lamenting how I was just about to pull the trigger on some LV12Rs. Now look what I've done. I'm going back to Onkyo to nail down the specifics on the receiver. 

I return you to your regularly scheduled thread. :bigsmile:


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## theJman

fogyreef said:


> Haha. I joined the thread lamenting how I was just about to pull the trigger on some LV12Rs. Now look what I've done. I'm going back to Onkyo to nail down the specifics on the receiver.
> 
> I return you to your regularly scheduled thread. :bigsmile:


When you're ready, why not post a new thread specifically for your situation? That would allow everyone to focus on those circumstances.


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## scorpion_pepper

After reading this thread and the review a few times, I think I want this sub. Do the folks that own it still like it?


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## 3dbinCanada

scorpion_pepper said:


> After reading this thread and the review a few times, I think I want this sub. Do the folks that own it still like it?


Unequivocally YES!!! 

I've had this sub for 3 + years now and my jaw still hits the ground when watching movies... The bass is punchy, tight, and articulate and capable of bass slapping you provided the room you put it in is not overly big. 

Last night, I started watching Captian America: Civil War on BluRay later in the evening but stopped half way through because my wife went to bed. This flick as some serious chest pounding bass!!. One of the scenes with this insane bass is when the motor cycle gets snatched from its rider in mid air by one of the characters (forgot who ) . That scene hit hard and I felt it squarely in the chest.


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## scorpion_pepper

3dbinCanada said:


> Unequivocally YES!!!
> 
> I've had this sub for 3 + years now and my jaw still hits the ground when watching movies... The bass is punchy, tight, and articulate and capable of bass slapping you provided the room you put it in is not overly big.
> 
> Last night, I started watching Captian America: Civil War on BluRay later in the evening but stopped half way through because my wife went to bed. This flick as some serious chest pounding bass!!. One of the scenes with this insane bass is when the motor cycle gets snatched from its rider in mid air by one of the characters (forgot who ) . That scene hit hard and I felt it squarely in the chest.


My room is only 1100 cubic feet so it should be good. Do you listen to music? I like rock and stuff like Deadmau5. I don't have bluray yet, but soon.


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## theJman

3dbinCanada said:


> I've had this sub for 3 + years now and my jaw still hits the ground when watching movies... The bass is punchy, tight, and articulate and capable of bass slapping you provided the room you put it in is not overly big.


After reading this I said to myself "it couldn't possibly be that long since I published the LV12R review, could it?". Sure enough, it was 3 years ago May. Man how time flies... :rolleyesno:


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## 3dbinCanada

theJman said:


> After reading this I said to myself "it couldn't possibly be that long since I published the LV12R review, could it?". Sure enough, it was 3 years ago May. Man how time flies... :rolleyesno:


Wait it gets much better once you pass 55. Words start to disappear temporarily from your vocabulary and things that you new to be true are "new" again. ...well maybe not the last part so much yet,,,


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## 3dbinCanada

scorpion_pepper said:


> My room is only 1100 cubic feet so it should be good. Do you listen to music? I like rock and stuff like Deadmau5. I don't have bluray yet, but soon.


I'm kinda quirky when it comes to listening to music. I shutoff YPAO (Yamaha's room eq) running it pure direct which also disables the sub and run my fron towers full range as I want to hear the speakers as designed. That being said, the LV12-R can easily be used for music as its tight and articulate enough to do it. Its as tuneful as any sealed sub I've ever heard. I tested the sub with blues, classic rock and classical music and it works extremely well. Its just my quirk that prevents me from using the sub for music. :whistling:


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## scorpion_pepper

3dbinCanada said:


> I'm kinda quirky when it comes to listening to music. I shutoff YPAO (Yamaha's room eq) running it pure direct which also disables the sub and run my fron towers full range as I want to hear the speakers as designed. That being said, the LV12-R can easily be used for music as its tight and articulate enough to do it. Its as tuneful as any sealed sub I've ever heard. I tested the sub with blues, classic rock and classical music and it works extremely well. Its just my quirk that prevents me from using the sub for music. :whistling:


That actually makes sense. What towers do you have?


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## theJman

3dbinCanada said:


> Wait it gets much better once you pass 55.


I did that last year. And so the decline begins... lddude:


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## 3dbinCanada

scorpion_pepper said:


> That actually makes sense. What towers do you have?


My towers are PSB Image T45

Here are tehre measurements:
http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/psb_image_t45/


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## scorpion_pepper

I just got my LV12R today! This thing is heavy and bulky! My apologies to the UPS guy that had to haul this thing to my front step ( I wasn't home when it arrived ). I have just started to tinker with the sound, but it sounds good so far. I want to say that my sub came double boxed, and it has a Rythmik emblem on the lower front grill. So far I am really liking music on this thing. I don't have a blue ray player yet, but that is next.


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## theJman

Glad you like the sub so far. After you have more time with it I'm certain you'll be amazed at what it can do with just a single 12" driver.

Rythmik just recently started putting grill badges on. I had made mention of the bland appearance in reviews before, and others have posted the same thing on various forums, so it seems they were listening. It's amazing how much difference such a little change makes, eh?


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## scorpion_pepper

Yea, it's great that this company probably took notes from your review and made some improvements. It's a really nice looking sub in person. I must say, the badge does add some class. The pictures on their site don't do it justice. Maybe they will update that next?


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## theJman

scorpion_pepper said:


> Yea, it's great that this company probably took notes from your review and made some improvements. It's a really nice looking sub in person. I must say, the badge does add some class. The pictures on their site don't do it justice. Maybe they will update that next?


Brian is a very talented engineer and subwoofer designer, but with websites not so much. It's funny how some of the most accomplished people in the ID subwoofer field, like Mark Seaton and Jeff Permanian, either don't have a website (Mark) or have one without any visual appeal (Jeff and Brian). Makes you wonder how much additional product folks like that would sell if they had a well done website.


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## 3dbinCanada

theJman said:


> Glad you like the sub so far. After you have more time with it I'm certain you'll be amazed at what it can do with just a single 12" driver.
> 
> Rythmik just recently started putting grill badges on. I had made mention of the bland appearance in reviews before, and others have posted the same thing on various forums, so it seems they were listening. It's amazing how much difference such a little change makes, eh?


I wonder how much a new grill cover would cost me if its possible to get one.


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## 3dbinCanada

scorpion_pepper said:


> I just got my LV12R today! This thing is heavy and bulky! My apologies to the UPS guy that had to haul this thing to my front step ( I wasn't home when it arrived ). I have just started to tinker with the sound, but it sounds good so far. I want to say that my sub came double boxed, and it has a Rythmik emblem on the lower front grill. So far I am really liking music on this thing. I don't have a blue ray player yet, but that is next.


We won't believe you have one until you post some pics!! :neener: Make sure to get one with the grill please. :smile:


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## theJman

3dbinCanada said:


> I wonder how much a new grill cover would cost me if its possible to get one.


I believe they're free. Not sure about shipping, but IIRC the emblem itself was no charge.


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## scorpion_pepper

Try this http://i.imgur.com/ob8WRZd.jpg


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## theJman

The grill material appears to be more transparent then what was on the unit I reviewed. You can probably see the driver doing its work now.


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## scorpion_pepper

theJman said:


> The grill material appears to be more transparent then what was on the unit I reviewed. You can probably see the driver doing its work now.



There is a desk lamp on the floor just off of the lower left corner of the photo. I think it looks more transparent that it really is. But it is on the thin side.


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## 3dbinCanada

theJman said:


> I believe they're free. Not sure about shipping, but IIRC the emblem itself was no charge.


I sent an email to both Brian and Enrico to see how much it cost to have one shipped up to me.


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