# Looking for SVS opinion



## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

I have a buget for 2 sealed subs or 1 ported sub.

(2) SB13-PLUS or (1) PB13-ULTRA 

Which option is better. I do not have a budget for (2) PB13-ULTRA 
Room size is 1925 cu ft

Thanks


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

Tell us about your current system (speakers/sub/AVR), your listening preferences (HT or music), and your preferred playback level (low, moderate, loud, very loud with a lot of slam/impact/pressure. Then we can help you select the best subs for your application. Thanks.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Ed Mullen said:


> Tell us about your current system (speakers/sub/AVR), your listening preferences (HT or music), and your preferred playback level (low, moderate, loud, very loud with a lot of slam/impact/pressure. Then we can help you select the best subs for your application. Thanks.


Thanks Ed

I have the following:

2 Vandersteen 2CI speakers
1 Adcom preamp GFP 556 II
1 Adcom Amp GFA 555 II (100 watts RMS)
Pioneer BDP330 Blu Ray.
I do not have a surround sound system.

I listen mostly to HT (95%) and enjoy moderate to loud playback levels with the occasional slam.


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

How is the DVD player connected to the pre-amp? If analog out; how many channels do you have connected? I can't find a link to the pre-amp on Adcom's website; can you provide one?


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Ed Mullen said:


> How is the DVD player connected to the pre-amp? If analog out; how many channels do you have connected? I can't find a link to the pre-amp on Adcom's website; can you provide one?


The reason there is no link to Adcom's website is that this preamp is almost 15 years old. (1998). 
As for output we have the following:
We have a Listening Mode and a Recording Mode. 
Phono
CD
Tuner
Tape1
Tape2
Video/Aux

The audio from the Blu Ray player is plugged into the preamp using the Video/Aux jack
The video from the Blu Ray player is plugged into the Tv using a HDMI cable.

Here is a picture of the front

http://pic8.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/im...c&class&i/c/f/1316702058.jpg&Adcom-gfp-555-ii


Here is a picture of the back. The preamp is on top and the Amp is on the bottom. I google'd these

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=gfp+5...tbnw=192&start=71&ndsp=25&ved=1t:429,r:7,s:71


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

95FLHTC said:


> The reason there is no link to Adcom's website is that this preamp is almost 15 years old. (1998).
> As for output we have the following:
> We have a Listening Mode and a Recording Mode.
> Phono
> ...


OK thanks. Since that player lacks multi-channel analog outputs, if you are just connecting the front left/right analog channels from the DVD player, you are very likely getting a downmixed signal which is not carrying the LFE '.1' channel. If you want to fully benefit from the new audio codecs found on BD and make sure you are hearing all channels of information on the DVD (including the LFE channel), then I recommend the use of a new surround sound processor capable of accepting an HDMI connection and decoding DD TrueHD and DTS Master Audio. 

At any rate, if you have the room for a larger subwoofer, the PB13-Ultra has better low-end performance than even dual SB13-Plus, and would be my recommendation for a 95% HT application.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I can fully attest to what Ed is saying, the PB13U is a fantastic sub for both music and movies. If your looking for deep lows its THE sub to get for the money in my opinion.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Ed Mullen said:


> OK thanks. Since that player lacks multi-channel analog outputs, if you are just connecting the front left/right analog channels from the DVD player, you are very likely getting a downmixed signal which is not carrying the LFE '.1' channel. If you want to fully benefit from the new audio codecs found on BD and make sure you are hearing all channels of information on the DVD (including the LFE channel), then I recommend the use of a new surround sound processor capable of accepting an HDMI connection and decoding DD TrueHD and DTS Master Audio.
> 
> At any rate, if you have the room for a larger subwoofer, the PB13-Ultra has better low-end performance than even dual SB13-Plus, and would be my recommendation for a 95% HT application.



What does "BD" mean as in "new audio codecs found on BD"
One last concern. Does this mean the PB13 has to be in the centre of the room to avoid directionality.

Thanks


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## tundraSQ (Mar 17, 2007)

95FLHTC said:


> What does "BD" mean as in "new audio codecs found on BD"
> One last concern. Does this mean the PB13 has to be in the centre of the room to avoid directionality.
> 
> Thanks


BD means Blu-ray...and no the sub would not need to be in the center of the room.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

tundraSQ said:


> BD means Blu-ray...and no the sub would not need to be in the center of the room.


Thanks


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Thanks Ed and Tony for your response.


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

Sure thing. 

And I know why you are hanging onto the Adcom - because 'they don't make 'em like they used to'. Those are quality built pieces of gear. 

But if you are listening to 95% HT, you owe it to yourself to hear every channel of information on the DVDs in all their high definition glory, and the L/R RCA outs from the player are not providing that; it is a seriously watered down audio experience. 

I encourage you to put hands on a modern processor and even purchase a few more speaker channels and experience everything DD TrueHD and DTS Master Audio has to offer.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Ed Mullen said:


> Sure thing.
> 
> And I know why you are hanging onto the Adcom - because 'they don't make 'em like they used to'. Those are quality built pieces of gear.
> 
> ...


Yes sir the Adcom still sound great after all these years.
As for a modern processor, can you make any manufacture recommendations


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

95FLHTC said:


> Yes sir the Adcom still sound great after all these years.
> As for a modern processor, can you make any manufacture recommendations


You've got a couple of routes.....personally I would either retire the Adcom pre/pro or use it in a dedicated 2 channel system. 

If you want to keep the Adcom amp (and I would since it's far better than most AVR amp stages), then I recommend getting a decent A/V receiver which has pre-outs and use the Adcom amp to power the front main speakers and let the AVR power the center channel and surround speakers. 

Connect the Blu-ray player to the AVR via HDMI (which you can then pass through to your HDTV) and the AVR will then decode the high definition audio tracks and it will sound an order of magnitude better than what you are currently experiencing. If you are going to spend the coin to upgrade to a subwooofer like the PB13-Ultra, then we first need to make sure you are hearing every channel on the DVD and sending the subwoofer the redirected bass from all speaker channels and also the LFE channel (standard digital bass management).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

95FLHTC said:


> As for a modern processor, can you make any manufacture recommendations


These days it is not worth spending the money on a dedicated Pre/Pro as the quality difference is no longer an issue. Most good receivers will have pre outs that allow you to use external amplification while still giving you way more bang for your buck in the way of Auto room correction like Audyssey, processing options and features.

The Onkyo 809 is my personal favorite and can be had for well under $700


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> These days it is not worth spending the money on a dedicated Pre/Pro as the quality difference is no longer an issue. Most good receivers will have pre outs that allow you to use external amplification while still giving you way more bang for your buck in the way of Auto room correction like Audyssey, processing options and features.
> 
> The Onkyo 809 is my personal favorite and can be had for well under $700


Agreed. Anything with Audyssey MultEQ XT (or XT32 on the really high-end models) is recommended, as it does EQ the subwoofer channel (unlike some of the other auto-set-up systems from other brands). 

Denon is my personal fav, but Onkyo, Marantz, Integra also have Audyssey. The 4311 is the least expensive AVR with XT32. The 4810 (very spendy) has dual Burr-Brown DACs per channel in the front end if sound quality is paramount.


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## pbc (Sep 3, 2007)

95FLHTC said:


> Thanks Ed and Tony for your response.


Dan ... depending on where you are in Ontario, and if I didn't have a baby on the way literally in days, I'd have had you over to listen to my PB13 in a 1750 cubic foot room. In 15 hz tune it's literally a LOT of sub for the room and will probably reach down to 13hz or so with room gain.

Here is a recent in-room response I got ... could have had flatter but was good enough at the time!


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Ed Mullen said:


> Agreed. Anything with Audyssey MultEQ XT (or XT32 on the really high-end models) is recommended, as it does EQ the subwoofer channel (unlike some of the other auto-set-up systems from other brands).
> 
> Denon is my personal fav, but Onkyo, Marantz, Integra also have Audyssey. The 4311 is the least expensive AVR with XT32. The 4810 (very spendy) has dual Burr-Brown DACs per channel in the front end if sound quality is paramount.


Thanks for the updates. Looks like I have some major research to complete.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

pbc said:


> Dan ... depending on where you are in Ontario, and if I didn't have a baby on the way literally in days, I'd have had you over to listen to my PB13 in a 1750 cubic foot room. In 15 hz tune it's literally a LOT of sub for the room and will probably reach down to 13hz or so with room gain.
> 
> Here is a recent in-room response I got ... could have had flatter but was good enough at the time!


Yes thats a very good response and thanks for the invite.
Where do you hide the PB13 as its rather large (Front, Back, Left or Right side of the room. I concerned about the direction of sound if there is only one sub or are there controls built in the sub to compensate for that.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Well, I sent sonicboomaudio (Canadian dealer) an email requesting a demo on their PB13, SB13 AND SB12 for next Tuesday. I told my wife how large each sub was and she was Ok with that. I may even have enough left to buy a ONKYO809 A/V.
$700 for a Onyko809 A/V in the States...Wow...Us Canadians are getting ripped off.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

95FLHTC said:


> Well, I sent sonicboomaudio (Canadian dealer) an email requesting a demo on their PB13, SB13 AND SB12 for next Tuesday. I told my wife how large each sub was and she was Ok with that. I may even have enough left to buy a ONKYO809 A/V.
> $700 for a Onyko809 A/V in the States...Wow...Us Canadians are getting ripped off.


You're in for a treat. Prepare to be impressed as they are wonderful subs.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

The deed is done .I have ordered a PB13 ultra in black oak thanks to a very nice gentleman by the name of Mason @ sonicboomaudio.com. Mason responded to all my Email's very quickly which surprised me considering it was the Easter Weekend. I should have possession by Wednesday or Thurday.

Now to work on that Onkyo 809 A/V processor.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

I hooked up the PB13 using factory settings to my Adcom amp and plugged in the Blue Ray version of The Chronicles of Riddick. There was one scene where large cannons shot 3 times in succession. The volume was low but the whole couch shook. I never laughed so hard in my life. I called my wife down and replayed that scene and she refused to leave. It was amazing.. 

The Onkyo809 should be in this week. I cant wait to hook it up


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## cr136124 (Apr 23, 2012)

Sooo.....what happened? Do you have everything set? What do you think? Pics!!!!


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

It's been 45 days and still waiting for the Onkyo... I was told by the dealer its going to be a while longer because of the recall. I will wait till the end of May.

Right now I have the Pb13 connected to the old Amp with the stock settings. I have not cranked it yet for fear of blowing the Sub. Once I get the Onkyo I'll continue with my story.


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## ryansboston (Dec 10, 2010)

95FLHTC said:


> It's been 45 days and still waiting for the Onkyo... I was told by the dealer its going to be a while longer because of the recall. I will wait till the end of May.
> 
> Right now I have the Pb13 connected to the old Amp with the stock settings. I have not cranked it yet for fear of blowing the Sub. Once I get the Onkyo I'll continue with my story.


I would love to hear the PB13. I have a SVS PB-10NSD and I would be very surprised if you could blow the sub... they are built rock solid!!


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

ryansboston said:


> I would love to hear the PB13. I have a SVS PB-10NSD and I would be very surprised if you could blow the sub... they are built rock solid!!


Well I still have The Adcom and am using a bypass output with the PB13. The other day I let her loose with Boom Boom Pow from Black Eyed Peas. After a couple of minutes my wife tried to tell me to turn it down. She was about 6 inches from my ear and it might have been a mile as I could not hear her.

The music was LOUD.
The music was CLEAR.
The bass was FANTASTIC.
The music made things VIBRATE.
I FELT every note.

It put a smile on my face.
I wont be turning it up that loud again but I'm very satisfied with the PB13.

As a side note, the order for my Onkyo is cancelled. I ordered it in April and was told the 809 is now discontinued and would be replaced with the 818. After 3 month of waiting I had enough and got a refund.


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## cr136124 (Apr 23, 2012)

95FLHTC said:


> Well I still have The Adcom and am using a bypass output with the PB13. The other day I let her loose with Boom Boom Pow from Black Eyed Peas. After a couple of minutes my wife tried to tell me to turn it down. She was about 6 inches from my ear and it might have been a mile as I could not hear her.
> 
> The music was LOUD.
> The music was CLEAR.
> ...


So, what receiver are you going to buy now? :scratch:


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

cr136124 said:


> So, what receiver are you going to buy now? :scratch:


At this point in time I have decided not to get a receiver. After reading some of the the advise I had received on this site, I though a receiver would allow a deeper bass to be heard (LFE). I have all the bass I need from the Adcom PreAmp. The Adcom may be outdated but it delivers. All I ever wanted was a very loud, clean, undistorted bass and I have that with the SVS PB13 Ultra Ported. I spent $200 on a new ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio sound card for my PC as all my music and video is stored there. The SVS PB13 Ultra Ported took full advantage from the bass produced by the ASUS. 

I may not have the technical background for providing a better description on how the SVS PB13 Ultra Ported sounds, but all I know is that it puts a smile on my face every time I use it and thats all I care about.

Signed by

A very satisfied SVS customer


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

95FLHTC said:


> At this point in time I have decided not to get a receiver. After reading some of the the advise I had received on this site, I though a receiver would allow a deeper bass to be heard (LFE). I have all the bass I need from the Adcom PreAmp. The Adcom may be outdated but it delivers. All I ever wanted was a very loud, clean, undistorted bass and I have that with the SVS PB13 Ultra Ported. I spent $200 on a new ASUS Xonar Essence STX Audio sound card for my PC as all my music and video is stored there. The SVS PB13 Ultra Ported took full advantage from the bass produced by the ASUS.
> 
> I may not have the technical background for providing a better description on how the SVS PB13 Ultra Ported sounds, but all I know is that it puts a smile on my face every time I use it and thats all I care about.
> 
> ...


Glad you are loving the PB13-Ultra! 

If you want to know if you are getting the LFE (.1) channel sent to the subwoofer from DVDs, play the Flight Of The Phoenix sandstorm plane crash scene. During the sandstorm, the plane does a barrel roll. There is a very loud and obvious 4 second bass effect centered at about 32 Hz when the plane does the barrel roll. This bass effect is exclusive to the LFE channel. If you don't hear this bass effect, you are not decoding and sending the LFE channel to your subwoofer.


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

Thanks Ed .. I will let you know


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## 95FLHTC (Feb 18, 2012)

ED
I played that part 4 times. There appear to be 2 barrel roles. The first one showing the plane doing a barrel roll over the dessert and I hear no sounds. Immediately there is a second barrel roll with people on board and there appears to be a 3-4 second low frequency. Is that an LFE? I'm not sure. I tried playing that scene using only my Vanderstein's. There was no comparison, the movie sounded way better with the SVS-PB13 ULTRA

I will look for the Blue ray version and see how it sounds.

Thanks ED


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