# Am I thinking too small???



## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Team,

I am finishing my basement the jewel of which will be a home theater. The home theater area is approximately 20' x 21' and opens to the billiards room (see attached plans). I have gone through several gyrations on what television would best suit this area. I looked at all the major brands and landed on the Panasonic 65" ZT60; however, some have told me this will be too small a screen for the room. One individual even recommended going to an 80" plasma which I don't mind doing if the picture quality matches the ZT 60. It is also important to note that I have ruled out projector systems as the basement pour is only 8'.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Matthew


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Here's a 90 incher for you to have a look at.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sharp-lc-90le745u/4505-6482_7-35332514.html

http://www.amazon.com/Sharp-LC-90LE745-90-inch-1080p-120Hz/dp/B008G0IKSK


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

I don't know why you think an 8' ceiling would prevent you from having a front projection system. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit more. Most likely, the vast majority of front projection home theaters are in rooms with 8' ceilings. 

You say this will be a "home theater," so we could assume your usage priority will be movie viewing. In light of that, you will get the best viewing experience with a large projected image, rather than a television. Especially if you implement a Cinemascope aspect ratio screen for what is called "constant image height" formatting of movies. Such a system can be realized on a lower budget using lens zoom and shift, rather than an anamorphic lens rig.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"

P.S. Your surround speaker placement plans in the drawing are not recommended. Ideally the side surrounds would be on side walls, high and adjacent to your depicted row of seating. Ceiling locations are a serious compromise for proper sound dispersion in the room. The back two channels ought to be farther away from the seating as well.


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Alan Brown said:


> I don't know why you think an 8' ceiling would prevent you from having a front projection system. Perhaps you can elaborate a bit more. Most likely, the vast majority of front projection home theaters are in rooms with 8' ceilings.
> 
> You say this will be a "home theater," so we could assume your usage priority will be movie viewing. In light of that, you will get the best viewing experience with a large projected image, rather than a television. Especially if you implement a Cinemascope aspect ratio screen for what is called "constant image height" formatting of movies. Such a system can be realized on a lower budget using lens zoom and shift, rather than an anamorphic lens rig.
> 
> ...


Alan,

Thanks for your response. Two things: I made the choice to go with a television over a projector long ago. This will not change. I will likely go with either a Vizio M or Sharp 80" as my final solution. Second, my room configuration, while it may not appear so in the drawing, does not allow for wall mounted SS due to a short wall. I am going with a high end Martin Logan system all the way around that will included 4 in ceiling Vanquish speakers. Unfortunately, this is the reality of my layout. I also considered floor standing for surrounds but did not want to have to walk around them. I have thought this out a bit. Luckily, due to the feedback of experts like yourself, I believe my system will be excellent.

Thanks,

Matthew


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

How far from the screen will your primary viewing distance be?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

What are you powering your ML's with? Let us know what you think of the ML architectural series or are you going part electrostatic for the front end?


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Alan Brown said:


> How far from the screen will your primary viewing distance be?[/QUOTE
> 
> Hello Alan!
> 
> ...


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Andre said:


> What are you powering your ML's with? Let us know what you think of the ML architectural series or are you going part electrostatic for the front end?


Greetings Andre,

My setup is as follows:

FR & FL: Martin Logan Ethos
Center: Martin Logan Stage X
Sub: Martin Logan BalancedForce 210
SS: Martin Logan Vanquish
Rears: Martin Logan Vanquish
Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR5010 9.2-Ch THX Netwrk RC
Potential Television: VIZIO M801d-A3R 80-Inch 1080p 240Hz LED 3D Smart TV 
Panamax MR5100 power conditioner
Marantz UD7007

Thanks!

Matthew


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Nice gear Matthew. How are you finding that power output of the Onkyo into the Ethos? I understand the gobble the current up and beg for more.


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Andre said:


> Nice gear Matthew. How are you finding that power output of the Onkyo into the Ethos? I understand the gobble the current up and beg for more.


Hello once again,

I thought about the Integra DTR - 80.3. According to my local home theater installation company, either the Integra or the Onkyo should suffice from a power perspective; however, I have also thought about ditching the receiver altogether and going with an amp. What are your thoughts?

~Matthew


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Ooooo I thought you already had it. IMHO for speakers for that caliber and love for power I would go with a Preamp/Amp route.

Preamp Onkyo 5509 or up one to the Marantz 8801
Amp I would look at the Emotiva XPR-5

Also unless you have your heart set on the ML sub I would look at the HSU VTF 15, the SVS 13 Ultra (box or cylinder)

What source are you planing to use? Oppo?


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

MLGamer said:


> Alan Brown said:
> 
> 
> > How far from the screen will your primary viewing distance be?[/QUOTE
> ...


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Andre said:


> Ooooo I thought you already had it. IMHO for speakers for that caliber and love for power I would go with a Preamp/Amp route.
> 
> Preamp Onkyo 5509 or up one to the Marantz 8801
> Amp I would look at the Emotiva XPR-5
> ...


I had looked closely at the PB13 - Ultra and have heard nothing but good things about it. I may make a change here as the reviews are higher than those of the Martin Logan AND it cost less. Just for the fun of playing devils advocate, why not just use either the Onkyo or Integra mentioned above? Shouldn't they be able to handle the power needs or is 145W putting my speakers on a short leash? I understand your point of view regarding the amp/preamp route. Just making sure it is a necessary change.

Thanks!

~Matthew


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Alan Brown said:


> MLGamer said:
> 
> 
> > The general screen size recommendation (diagonal) for that viewing distance is 96" - 104" for 1080p resolution. That's based upon average human visual acuity of 20/20 vision.
> ...


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

I found a distance calculator through my old friend Google. Attached are the results.

~Matthew


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Though the large Onkyo receiver considering they do use a torodial transformer in their amplifier path may be able to power the MLs sufficiently I have always felt that the ML would respond better with a higher current and more consistant power at low inpedances


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

The 30 degree viewing angle is correct according to multiple international video standards bodies since the inception of 1920 x 1080 HD. Geometry is universal for calculating screen size based upon a 30 degree viewing angle. THX is not a standards body and deviates from the international best practices recommendations due to their own interpretation and sense of priorities relative to cinematic immersion. Average human visual acuity is historically acknowledged to resolve 1/60th of a degree of an arc. Of course, that is an average and slight deviation will vary from person to person among the vast majority of viewers. A good rule of thumb among video imaging industry professionals for viewing distance from a 1080p HDTV is 1.5 times the diagonal, or 3 times the screen height.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Unless your bolting your seating down in my opinion move your seating area back and forth until you find the distance YOU like the most


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Andre said:


> Though the large Onkyo receiver considering they do use a torodial transformer in their amplifier path may be able to power the MLs sufficiently I have always felt that the ML would respond better with a higher current and more consistant power at low inpedances


Thanks Andre. Several people have said I should go with an amp/preamp configuration. You confirmed it. I am a changed man! I will probably go with the Marantz 8801 and the Emotiva XPR-5.

Thanks for your assistance.

~Matthew

***I am also going to change over to the SVS PB13 for my subwoofer.


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Andre said:


> Unless your bolting your seating down in my opinion move your seating area back and forth until you find the distance YOU like the most


AGREED!


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Hey guys and gals,

I am looking online pricing the recommended preamp/amp configuration for my home theater. It is as follows:

Marantz 8801
Emotiva XPR-5
Price: $4024.00
OR
I just found a bundle that includes the following
Marantz 8801
MM8077 7-Channel Power Amplifier
UD7007 3D Ready Universal Disc Player with Networking
Price: $6099.00.
OR
Marantz AV8801 11.2-Channel A/V Pre-amp/Processor
Marantz MM8077 7-Channel Power Amplifier (150W per channel)
Price: $4,999.00

Which way do you recommend I go?

Thanks,

Matthew!~


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## |Tch0rT| (May 2, 2013)

You can save a bit of cash if you decide to go the Marantz route by getting some refurbs from Accessories4Less.com. The 8801 preamp is $2400 and the 8077 amp is $1500. I haven't ordered from them personally but I've heard enough good things about them over the years that I wouldn't hesitate to in the future. I use a Marantz receiver with a Marantz amp with my ML's and love it.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

According to the spec sheet the Marantz amp is only rated down to 6 ohms and your MLs are 4. For that reason I would stick with the Emotiva (of course there are more expensive amps that are rated even better Bryston comes to mind), however, for the money the Emotiva's are a class act and they are currently on sale.

As for a Blu Ray most here a the shack recommend Oppo Digital


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## MLGamer (Feb 10, 2013)

Andre said:


> According to the spec sheet the Marantz amp is only rated down to 6 ohms and your MLs are 4. For that reason I would stick with the Emotiva (of course there are more expensive amps that are rated even better Bryston comes to mind), however, for the money the Emotiva's are a class act and they are currently on sale.
> 
> As for a Blu Ray most here a the shack recommend Oppo Digital


Hello Andre,

Thanks for the reply. I originally had the Oppo BDP - 103 as my blu ray player. Based on all of the research I have done, they seem to be upper crust in features and technology. I was looking at the Marantz blu ray because it is part of a bundle that was being offered that included an amp and pre-amp. 

What do you all think of refurbished as an option for buying components?

~Matthew


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I have yet to hear of anyone having a bad experience with Accessoires 4 less. Getting your 8801 for $1200off and add a 2 year extended warrany for $99. Thats the way I would got if they would ship to Canada...


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