# Yamaha RX-V1700 Receiver / RX-V2700 Receiver - Official Owners Thread



## Sonnie

I figured we may as well start up an official owners thread for the Yamaha RX-V1700 and RX-V2700 Receivers.

Rodny and I both ordered up the V1700 today.

If you own either, please let us all know and maybe share with us what you like, pros, cons, etc. 

If you don't mind, let us know what speakers you are running with the unit.

Thanks!



















Main Features: 

7-channel 910W powerful surround sound
(130W x 7)
Digital ToP-ART with extremely high quality parts and devices used throughout
Pure Direct for higher fidelity sound reproduction
2 in/1 out HDMI (ver. 1.2a) for handling digital signals including Super Audio CD
Assignable amplifiers for bi-amp connection
Advanced Features:
iPod song titles displayed on front panel and on-screen display (multi-language compatible)
Improved YPAO sound optimization
Superior zone control with additional zone remote unit
High Picture Quality:

1080p compatible HDMI (2 in/1 out)
video up-conversion to HDMI
De-interlacing (480i to 480p)
Wide-range component video bandwidth
(100MHz -3 dB, 1080p compatibility)
 Surround Realism:
CINEMA DSP with 23 DSP programs
Dolby Digital EX and DTS-ES 96/24 compatibility
Other Features:

Audio Delay for adjusting lip-sync (0–240 ms)
Dialogue Lift for dialogue to screen center
Selectable 9-band subwoofer crossover frequencies
Subwoofer Phase Select
Night Listening Enhancer ensures can be heard clearly at low volumes
SILENT CINEMA and Virtual CINEMA DSP
iPod song titles displayed in English and Western European languages on the front panel and on-screen display
Detachable power cable
Extended remote control codes
Remote terminal for Zone 2 or Zone 3
Dual programable +12V trigger outputs


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## Rodny Alvarez

I have couple of ???s........

What is the best set up, 7.1 with SB or 7.1 with presence speaker?
My setup now is 7.1 SB.
Do you think the presence speakers will make my stage better?
If I go with the presence setup I can bi-amp my mains.:bigsmile:.
Doing the 7.1 SB I can use the presence output for my 3rd zone.
What you guys think??:dumbcrazy:


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## SteveCallas

In movies that put surrounds to good use, I noticed a very nice and noticable improvement in my surround space by using rears. PLIIx layering on top of DD or DTS is without a doubt my preferred movie playback style. If your LCR already provide a nice large soundstage, I can only see presence channels hurting.


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## Sonnie

I agree with SteveCallas about the presence channels. Your room has a small width and I couldn't see it helping... nor in mine. If my HT shared my great room, then I see it being an asset.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

The presence channels are actually _great_ for Yamaha’s music DSP modes. I’ve used ours both with and without the presence speakers, and they definitely make an audible difference. Unlike most manufacturers, Yamaha’s DSP modes are modeled on actual venues, to mimic the acoustics of a concert hall, stadium, etc. If you like concert videos (and I know you do!) you can get a more enjoyable experience if y our HT “sounds” like the big auditorium, or small jazz club, that you’re “seeing” them in. 

That said, I’ve only used the DSPs with Yamaha’s top-of-the-line models, and our dated flagship which is over 10 years old now. Back then the lower-line models I heard, they sounded cheesy. But I expect by this time the technology from the old flagships has trickled down to the lower models. It sure can’t hurt to hook them up and see what you get.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Sonnie

When I first started this hobby I had a Yamaha DSP100 that had several DSP modes. I used front effects speakers for years with no center.


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## HionHiFi

The presence channels are helpful. I've used them with my older Yamaha RX-V1. 

The new 10.2 format that Tom Holman (THX Developer) is preparing for as a next generation format has not more rear or side speakers, but more front channel speakers. Hence, I think the front stage is where it's at for improving movie soundtrack realism.


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## Sonnie

I got the V1700 all connected and setup last night and today. I must say at first listen I am surprised at how laid back and warm this receiver sounds with the SVS SBS-01 system. I love the sound... :T If it were not for the sound I firmly believe I would sell it because of all the other nick picky things I find bothersome.

Setup went fairly easy, although navigating the menu was aggravating at times with no "Return" or "Back" button to get you back to where you were previously. I found myself having to exit completely out of the Menu and go back in to go to some other settings... really poorly arranged IMO.

Auto setup was of course about what I expected and what I've seen with many other receivers. It never gets the Large/Small setting on the speakers right, setting the SBS-01 speakers to Large. The sub distance was way off, although the manual did state this could happen, but I don't buy it. 

I found I had to set the levels almost at max to get to my listening level while the receiver is set to -10 on the volume. Had I left it where the auto setup had it, I would be at +10 before it was getting loud enough.

Fortunately we only have to get it setup once with maybe some minor adjustments and we are done with the Menu, or at least I think most users would be.

One other minor gripe is the volume level numbers are teenie weenie and there is no way to read them from my listening position. I wish they had made those numbers much bigger _*or*_ allow it to pop-up on the screen all the time like it does when you are adjusting it in the Menu.

I still plan on testing the Auto-EQ to see how it performs.


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## Rodny Alvarez

Sonnie said:


> Setup went fairly easy, although navigating the menu was aggravating at times with no "Return" or "Back" button to get you back to where you were previously. I found myself having to exit completely out of the Menu and go back in to go to some other settings... really poorly arranged IMO.


 "return" button, left side mid ways "XM MEMORY":nerd:


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## mike c

http://www.yamaha.co.jp/english/product/av/products/comparison/index3_2.html?pName=rxv2700

differences between the 2700 and 1700 based on the chart

*sorta important:*
one more HDMI in

*is this important?:*
upscaling
more power
YPAO 6 memories
OSD GUI

*even the carebears don't care:*
network function
USB input
zone 2 and 3 video et al


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## mike c

mike c said:


> YPAO 6 memories


when do you need something like this?



mike c said:


> OSD GUI


what's the difference between the nonGUI and GUI OSD?


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## Sonnie

Good questions mike... :T


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## Hakka

Sonnie said:


> I must say at first listen I am surprised at how laid back and warm this receiver sounds with the SVS SBS-01 system. I love the sound... :T If it were not for the sound I firmly believe I would sell it because of all the other nick picky things I find bothersome.


What AVR were you using before you got the Yamaha Sonnie? 

Hakka.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

See our Classifieds Forum. 

Regards,
Wayne


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## Sonnie

I was previously using the Maestro M2 with an Earthquake Cinenova Grande. The sound was more neutral with those in play with the SBS-01's. The JBL Northridge speakers started out fairly bright, but mellowed down somewhat after several hours of play. 

I guess since I've read several places where Yamaha was on the brighter side that I was expecting a bright sound, but I have been pleasantly surprised. This unit actually reminds me of my old McIntosh gear.


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## Hakka

Sonnie said:


> I guess since I've read several places where Yamaha was on the brighter side that I was expecting a bright sound, but I have been pleasantly surprised. This unit actually reminds me of my old McIntosh gear.



I had a Yamaha DSP-A3090 before I got my Denon 3803, and the Yamaha definately had a brighter sound than the Denon. I have heard from a few different sources lately that the new Yamahas have a warm sound. I was thinking you had a Denon for some reason, I was interested in a comparison between the two.

Hakka.


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## Sonnie

Yeah, I've had the Denon 3805 and 3806... both sounded about the same to me and I would say they were rather neutral as well, but in both cases I used the Cinenova as the amp and each Denon as a pre-pro.


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## srckkmack

mike c said:


> when do you need something like this?


More YPAO memories means you can save and recall the auto settings from different seating positions. It also allows you to taylor the auto settings to different preferences, say for music listening versus movies.



mike c said:


> what's the difference between the nonGUI and GUI OSD?


The nonGUI is text based, while the GUI is more graphical.

-Steve


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## Hakka

Sonnie said:


> Yeah, I've had the Denon 3805 and 3806... both sounded about the same to me and I would say they were rather neutral as well, but in both cases I used the Cinenova as the amp and each Denon as a pre-pro.


Are you using the Cinenova with the Yamaha or the internal amps?


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## mike c

srckkmack said:


> More YPAO memories means you can save and recall the auto settings from different seating positions. It also allows you to taylor the auto settings to different preferences, say for music listening versus movies.
> 
> The nonGUI is text based, while the GUI is more graphical.
> 
> -Steve


on the first one, nice

on the second one, I can live with text based OSD


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## Rodny Alvarez

I have my RX-V1700 hook to the toshiba HD-XA2 via HDMI and when I press the "straight" button is only showing MPCM, I cant get it to dolby o dts, do I need to change something on the DVD player o the receiver?????:dontknow:


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## bobgpsr

Rodny Alvarez said:


> I have my RX-V1700 hook to the toshiba HD-XA2 via HDMI and when I press the "straight" button is only showing MPCM, I cant get it to dolby o dts, do I need to change something on the DVD player o the receiver?????:dontknow:


The "Straight" button disables the internal DSP (so no DD PLIIx to make 7.1 out of 5.1). Try not using it. Selecting the DVD audio input on the Yamaha should do an "auto" select to use the linear Multichannel PCM HDMI audio input without using the "Straight" button. I'm just extrapolating from what my RX-V2500 does (no HDMI) with the S/PDIF digital versus two channel analog with its auto select of the best input for a given selection.


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## Sonnie

Hakka said:


> Are you using the Cinenova with the Yamaha or the internal amps?


The Cinenova is sold, I'm just using the V1700.


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## Sonnie

bobgpsr said:


> The "Straight" button disables the internal DSP (so no DD PLIIx to make 7.1 out of 5.1). Try not using it. Selecting the DVD audio input on the Yamaha should do an "auto" select to use the linear Multichannel PCM HDMI audio input without using the "Straight" button. I'm just extrapolating from what my RX-V2500 does (no HDMI) with the S/PDIF digital versus two channel analog with its auto select of the best input for a given selection.


This is a little confusing to me... especially you suggesting "Try not using it." From the manual it appears it is the only way for it to decode DD and DTS. On page 49 it reads:

"When this unit is in the STRAIGHT mode, multi-channel sources are decoded straight into the appropriate channels without any additional effect processing." 

And then it has a column listing the various formats and their description:

DD
DTS
DSD
PCM
MPCM
Analog

And that's pretty much all it says on this.

On page 96 there is a Decoder mode section that explains:

"Use to switch the input mode. You can designate the reassigned digital input jacks for specific audio signals (DTS, etc.) Choices: AUTO, DTS."

Is HDMI not considered "digital" ???

This is probably one of the more challenging receiver manuals I've been exposed too... :scratch:


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## SteveCallas

Sonnie said:


> although navigating the menu was aggravating at times with no "Return" or "Back" button to get you back to where you were previously. I found myself having to exit completely out of the Menu and go back in to go to some other settings... really poorly arranged IMO.


Assuming it's the same as my 5890, all you do is press up or down at the top or bottom of the list (respectively) and it takes you right back to the previous menu screen. For instance, if you are into the menu system with something generic like:

1
..A
.....Left 
.....Right 
.....Center
.....etc

and you want to get back to level A, just keep pressing up until you get back to Left and then press up again and you're back in A. Does that make sense? I find it makes navigation really easy because you only have to use up, down, left, and right the whole time. Other receivers I've played with have buttons for every minor task and it becomes ridiculous.



Sonnie said:


> I found I had to set the levels almost at max to get to my listening level while the receiver is set to -10 on the volume. Had I left it where the auto setup had it, I would be at +10 before it was getting loud enough.


Is this calibrated to reference or just generically basing it on -10 should be "loud"? With Yamaha test tones, you calibrate each channel to 75db when master volume is at 0.



Sonnie said:


> One other minor gripe is the volume level numbers are teenie weenie and there is no way to read them from my listening position. I wish they had made those numbers much bigger or allow it to pop-up on the screen all the time like it does when you are adjusting it in the Menu.


Unless the 1700 is different from the 5890 again, the MV does pop up on screen when you are using the video input the menu is set on. Additionally, whatever is displayed on the receiver pannel (THX, Standard, Pro Logic IIx, etc) changes to display the master volume when adjusting the volume.


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## Sonnie

SteveCallas said:


> Assuming it's the same as my 5890, all you do is press up or down at the top or bottom of the list (respectively) and it takes you right back to the previous menu screen.


Mine doesn't do that. Pressing Up or Down keeps rotating through the same screen.



SteveCallas said:


> Is this calibrated to reference or just generically basing it on -10 should be "loud"? With Yamaha test tones, you calibrate each channel to 75db when master volume is at 0.


-10 is generally where I listen on my other units... just a reference for me.

I didn't read this about the master volume at 0 in the manual, but maybe I should try it and see what happens.




SteveCallas said:


> Unless the 1700 is different from the 5890 again, the MV does pop up on screen when you are using the video input the menu is set on. Additionally, whatever is displayed on the receiver pannel (THX, Standard, Pro Logic IIx, etc) changes to display the master volume when adjusting the volume.


I'm not sure what you mean by "video input the menu is set on". :scratch: The only video connection I have is HDMI so the OSD is using HDMI to show on my screen.

I'm thinking they must be different because nothing changes on the front of my unit when changing volumes. Unless there is somewhere I can tell it to do this and just haven't figured it out or read it in the manual yet. :huh:


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## SteveCallas

Sonnie said:


> Mine doesn't do that. Pressing Up or Down keeps rotating through the same screen.


Well that's no good....:scratch: Maybe they redid the menu system.



> The only video connection I have is HDMI so the OSD is using HDMI to show on my screen.
> 
> I'm thinking they must be different because nothing changes on the front of my unit when changing volumes.


So when your projector is using the HDMI input, and you change the master volume, it shows up on neither the screen nor on the front pannel of the receiver display? :blink: That's odd. That should be default, but I'd imagine there has to be a way to turn that on.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

> So when your projector is using the HDMI input, and you change the master volume, it shows up on neither the screen nor on the front pannel of the receiver display?


Mine's like yours - pushing a button shows the action on both the front-panel display and the OSD. Guess they’ve changed that – bad move, especially with the iddy-biddy volume numbers... From what I see in the manual, the short OSD display only shows what’s on the front panel – which I guess is a static “Dolby Digital,” “Pro Logic,” etc. 

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


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## bobgpsr

Sonnie said:


> This is a little confusing to me... especially you suggesting "Try not using it." From the manual it appears it is the only way for it to decode DD and DTS.


Look at the top right hand part of page 40 in your manual. I'm talking about the Audio Select on the front panel or AUDIO SEL on the remote control. When you select DVD audio as the source the AUDIO SEL button lets you choose AUTO, HDMI, COAX/OPT or ANALOG connection types for DVD audio. You need to be sure that you have ASSIGNed the HDMI as an audio input for DVD per page 94. I downloaded and glanced through the manual. Very nice AVR. I'm jealous. :drool: Trying to hold out for a RX-V2800 or better for my next AVR.


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## SteveCallas

Wayne said:


> Mine's like yours - pushing a button shows the action on both the front-panel display and the OSD. Guess they’ve changed that


Hmm, you know what, I bet it's precisely because he is using HDMI. I wonder if the receiver is incapable of displaying system info through the HDMI signal chain while material is being played?


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## Rodny Alvarez

The guys from toshiba told me the it could be that the receiver doesnt support DD, DTS.......... thru HDMI.:hissyfit: 
The guys from yamaha................. on screen menu is only with video, s video and 480p component.:crying: :rant:


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## Sonnie

bobgpsr said:


> Look at the top right hand part of page 40 in your manual. I'm talking about the Audio Select on the front panel or AUDIO SEL on the remote control. When you select DVD audio as the source the AUDIO SEL button lets you choose AUTO, HDMI, COAX/OPT or ANALOG connection types for DVD audio. You need to be sure that you have ASSIGNed the HDMI as an audio input for DVD per page 94. I downloaded and glanced through the manual. Very nice AVR. I'm jealous. :drool: Trying to hold out for a RX-V2800 or better for my next AVR.


Yeah... it was on AUTO. I changed it to HDMI, but I don't think it matters. All seems to work the same.



SteveCallas said:


> W
> So when your projector is using the HDMI input, and you change the master volume, it shows up on neither the screen nor on the front pannel of the receiver display? :blink: That's odd. That should be default, but I'd imagine there has to be a way to turn that on.


It changes to show MAIN VOLUME out beside the teeine weenie numbers, but that don't help me any. If they would make the numbers as big as the lettering on the MAIN VOLUME then I could probably read it. :huh:


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## Sonnie

I did some more tinkering and reading... no new news and no good news... same ole stuff. 

I measured my non-eq'd response and my PEQ response tonight:

Blue = Non-EQ
Red = PEQ










Doesn't seem to do a whole lot really, except roll off the high end.

I'm really disappointed with the functionality of this unit. Yamaha has really dropped the ball IMO. Even though I like the sound, I still may sell it and go back to Denon.


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## Sonnie

No matter what I do... all I can get to show up is the MPCM .... I haven't seen any indication of DD or DTS yet. I have tried every possible setting tonight, but generally have resorted to AUTO for most of them.


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## Rodny Alvarez

The Toshiba DVD is sending DD, DTS, etc...... the receiver is not recognizing the signal thru HDMI, it could be the cable!! DVD player is 1.3 and the receiver is 1.2:dontknow: the receiver just cant read the info thru the HDMI, maybe using the digital input!!!:scratch::wits-end: 
Hey Sonnie is your cable 1.3???


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## bobgpsr

Sonnie said:


> Yeah... it was on AUTO. I changed it to HDMI, but I don't think it matters. All seems to work the same.


And it should. I think the AUTO selection is fine. It gives preference to HDMI which should be what you normally want. This AUTO gives interesting possibilities. I've noticed that on my RX-V2500, if I do not have active audio coming in via S/PDIF (say the source was powered down) but do have active audio on two channel analog stereo going into the same overall input selection (say DVD) then AUTO automatically uses the two channel analog. I leave AUTO enabled unless I want to force things otherwise. 

The point is that "Straight" is not really desireable unless you want a more "pure" path without any DSP stuff.


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## bobgpsr

Sonnie said:


> No matter what I do... all I can get to show up is the MPCM .... I haven't seen any indication of DD or DTS yet. I have tried every possible setting tonight, but generally have resorted to AUTO for most of them.


Hey that sounds like a source problem and not the AVR. Is the source set to output bitstream on HDMI for standard DVDs? Like the AUTO setting for HDMI on the Toshiba HD DVD players.

I doubt that there is such a thing as a HDMI 1.3 only cable. Any HDMI cable should work.


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## SteveCallas

Sonnie, that's a pretty nice overall FR before PEQ :clap: If you were somehow able to boost the 60-150hz range a bit, I think you would find a nice improvement in percieved bass sound quality :nerd: 

Sounds like the 1700 is nothing but problems. From my point of view, I'm not interested in carrying audio/video over a single cable and won't be until the industry absolutely forces me to. That issue aside, it still sounds like there are problems. As I mentioned before, every receiver has its own idiosyncracies, and it seems that the ones in this unit are pretty annoying. If you were pleased with the Denon, I wouldn't hesitate to go back. The job of a receiver is to simplify things, not compound them :T


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## SteveCallas

Oh, by the way, any chance one of you guys could pop the hood and take a top down picture of the internals? I'm interested in finding out if the power supply, heat sinks, and capacitors are the same as in my unit.


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## Hakka

I wuold be interested to see a graph comparing 'straight' mode to one of the cinema DSP modes, I've heard the DSP modes add some boost in the bass frequencies on the newer AVRs.

As Bob mentioned, check the Toshiba to see if DD/DTS bitstream is set to HDMI, I'm guessing its set to SPDIF at the moment.

Harry.


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## SteveCallas

Sonnie, one more thing. You should be able to manually adjust the EQ - I'd cancel auto EQ (it's hurting, not helping), and since you already have a great "before" graph to work from, you can manually dial in where you want to make changes. You should be able to make a big impact that way.


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## Sonnie

bobgpsr said:


> Hey that sounds like a source problem and not the AVR. Is the source set to output bitstream on HDMI for standard DVDs? Like the AUTO setting for HDMI on the Toshiba HD DVD players.


I'll check that tomorrow evening and see what's up with it.




SteveCallas said:


> Oh, by the way, any chance one of you guys could pop the hood and take a top down picture of the internals? I'm interested in finding out if the power supply, heat sinks, and capacitors are the same as in my unit.


I can probably do this if I decide to sell it and take it out of the loop. I may just take the time to do it for ya anyway.




Hakka said:


> I wuold be interested to see a graph comparing 'straight' mode to one of the cinema DSP modes, I've heard the DSP modes add some boost in the bass frequencies on the newer AVRs.


I can probably handle this too. I'll probably be taking some more measurements anyway.




SteveCallas said:


> Sonnie, that's a pretty nice overall FR before PEQ :clap: If you were somehow able to boost the 60-150hz range a bit, I think you would find a nice improvement in perceived bass sound quality :nerd:
> 
> Sonnie, one more thing. You should be able to manually adjust the EQ - I'd cancel auto EQ (it's hurting, not helping), and since you already have a great "before" graph to work from, you can manually dial in where you want to make changes. You should be able to make a big impact that way.


Yeah... now we might be getting somewhere. The GEQ might come in handy here, along with the tone control which is probably centered right around 100Hz.


I'll fiddle with all this some more tomorrow evening.


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## Sonnie

Rodny Alvarez said:


> The Toshiba DVD is sending DD, DTS, etc...... the receiver is not recognizing the signal thru HDMI, it could be the cable!! DVD player is 1.3 and the receiver is 1.2:dontknow: the receiver just cant read the info thru the HDMI, maybe using the digital input!!!:scratch::wits-end:
> Hey Sonnie is your cable 1.3???


I don't know... MPCM is Multi PCM, so maybe that's what it's supposed to be showing. We need to test some SD DVDs and see what happens with them. I might also hook up a digital cable just to see what happens.

I'm thinking along the same line as Bob.... I don't think there is a 1.3 only cable. I don't think this is the issue, but I've been wrong an awful lot in my life time. :sarcastic:


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## Hakka

I would think if the cable was the problem DD and DTS would work and there would be issues with the HD sound formats and/or HD video signal, as they require a lot more bandwidth than DD/DTS.

I have heard of cheaper cables passing 1080i but not 1080p, due to bandwidth issues.

HDMI v1.3 introduced a new mini connector for camcorders etc, unless you have a piece of equipment that uses this mini connector, there is no v1.3 cable.


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## Sonnie

It appears that the XA2 will not output bitstream over HDMI... the only available options for HDMI output are Auto, PCM or Downmixed (stereo) PCM. I guess MPCM is what we are supposed to be seeing on HD-DVDs. I'll try an SD-DVD this evening.


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## bobgpsr

Sonnie said:


> It appears that the XA2 will not output bitstream over HDMI... the only available options for HDMI output are Auto, PCM or Downmixed (stereo) PCM. I guess MPCM is what we are supposed to be seeing on HD-DVDs. I'll try an SD-DVD this evening.


That is right!. MPCM with HD DVDs since the HD DVD player must internally decode the audio to Multichannel linear PCM if the disc is authored in Advanced Content mode (which most all HD DVDs are). It then mixes the audio with button sounds and if any, HDi commentary audio (goes with PiP, etc). It then sends the decoded/mixed Multichannel linear PCM out the HDMI port. 

With a SD DVD the player will pass the legacy DD or dts bitstream out via HDMI, if the HDMI interface is set to the AUTO setting in the player's setup menu.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

SteveCallas said:


> Sonnie, one more thing. You should be able to manually adjust the EQ - I'd cancel auto EQ (it's hurting, not helping)


Maybe not. It did smooth response above 3 kHz quite a bit. The SBS-01s are on the bright side, so it may be that they needed a little taming in Sonnie’s room. I think I’d leave the EQ alone, and instead dial up the treble control if more highs are needed, which would increase them while maintaining the improved response.



Sonnie said:


> I'm really disappointed with the functionality of this unit. Yamaha has really dropped the ball IMO. Even though I like the sound, I still may sell it and go back to Denon.


What a disappointment. I helped some friends set up an RX-V1600 just a year ago, and I was pretty impressed with it – had a lot of improvements over my old DSP-A3090. It was the first one with HDMI, and it worked fine with their DVD player and TV. I was impressed with how easy the remote was to operate and program. I was also impressed with the manual (if you want to see a dreadful manual, check Harmon Kardon. None of the helpful pictures that Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer et. al use – just a dreary and tedious sea of black ink and small fonts, and you have to constantly refer to the pictures way back at the front of the book..)

Looking at the picture of it on Yamaha’s website I see the 1600 also has the tiny volume numbers – I really didn’t notice that at the time. I think that would aggravate me as well. 

Regards,
Wayne


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## SteveCallas

Is the HD DVD player converting the high definition digital audio track to analog anywhere in the process, or is the multichannel PCM signal digital from start to finish?


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## bobgpsr

SteveCallas said:


> Is the HD DVD player converting the high definition digital audio track to analog anywhere in the process, or is the multichannel PCM signal digital from start to finish?


It is my understanding that the audio stays in the digital domain throughout. PCM can be manipulated by the audio DSP's.


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## SteveCallas

Wayne said:


> Maybe not. It did smooth response above 3 kHz quite a bit. The SBS-01s are on the bright side, so it may be that they needed a little taming in Sonnie’s room. I think I’d leave the EQ alone, and instead dial up the treble control if more highs are needed, which would increase them while maintaining the improved response.


I dunno, those definitely don't look bright in his room, that looks prety laid back to me (~16db down from the average at 20khz). The auto EQ may have smoothed it a bit, but it smoothed it while further increasing the rolloff. That's a lot of top end detail being lost out on. Everyone has different sound characteristic preferences though, and Sonnie may prefer a rolled off top end.


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## Sonnie

This is surely why I initially said it sounded so laid back... for good reason. I actually like it on the music... it sounds really good and maybe it's good for the SBS-01's. I've left it off for the most part thus far. I want to tinker with the GEQ a little.


It sure would be super nice if Yamaha could release a firmware update to make the OSD short menus work via HDMI during a 1080i or better source. It would make living with the amp mo betta. Oh how the little things can gripe me sometimes.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

There does appear to be a firmware update of some kind. You'll have register to get to it.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/...451764&CTID=5000300&RLTID=1505&DETYP=RELATION

Regards,
Wayne


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## Sonnie

Unfortunately it's not a significant update for me...



> Yamaha has found that in some instances when switching between certain digital signals on an
> RX-V1700 or HTR-6090, the digital signal will mute for an extended period of time or will not return.
> Yamaha is offering a firmware update to correct this issue.


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## Rodny Alvarez

Hey Sonnie!!
I just played a standard DVD and it shows Dolby Digital on the receiver.:scratch: (straight)


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## Sonnie

It's all working like it should then... :T


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## Hakka

I had a read through the RXV-1700 manual last night and on page 19 it says that the 'short message display' (which shows the front panel display onscreen whenever a button is pressed) is not available on component 480p/576p/720p/1080i or HDMI. So it looks like you can only have the onscreen display with 480i/567i sources.

I can't think of too many AVRs that can do OSD over a progressive signal or HDMI for that matter.


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## Sonnie

Yeah... I don't know of any either. I may can live with it... I'll just have to see how it works out and if it really gripes me bad enough. :sarcastic:


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## Hakka

You could always stick a magnifying glass to the front of the AVR to make the volume read out bigger.


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## Rodny Alvarez

I told him to cut the bottom of a coca-cola bottle and put it in front of the display!!:joke: :bigsmile:


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## Hakka

Or you could do this...


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## Sonnie

At least I have some ideas now... :sarcastic:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Hakka said:


> You could always stick a magnifying glass to the front of the AVR to make the volume read out bigger.


That’s one thing I really like about my ancient 3090 – a lighted LED on the volume knob that shows its position. ‘Course, I guess they don’t used motorized volume controls anymore...

Regards,
Wayne


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## Hakka

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> That’s one thing I really like about my ancient 3090 – a lighted LED on the volume knob that shows its position. ‘Course, I guess they don’t used motorized volume controls anymore...
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


I have a 3090 sitting in my lounge room system, and that LED on the volume is very handy.


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## Geoff Gunnell

FWIW one MAJOR difference, to me anyway, between the 2500, 2600, 2700, 4600, and RX-9, and all the rest of Yamahas receivers, is that you only get manual access to the PEQ bands on these models.
Some of the lower models like the 1700 do give you a fixed multi-band Graphic EQ however.

AFAIK the only place Yamaha tells you this is in the manuals, and they are making .pdf's of them hard to find. I wonder why...

You'll hear "the 5xxx model sold in big box stores is the same as the Rxxxxx model sold through dealers" a lot. Basically true, BUT you will not get manual access to mutiband parametric EQ on the big box models.


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## SteveCallas

Manually adjusting the EQ bands is available in the HTR models.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

> AFAIK the only place Yamaha tells you this is in the manuals, and they are making .pdf's of them hard to find. I wonder why...


I’ve noticed this too, since they re-designed their web site. A month or so ago someone gave me this link for manuals from the Canadian web site:
http://www.yamaha.ca/av/Manuals.jsp#operating?from=support

You can find them on the US website, from this page. However, you do have to register to access them – nothing more than using an e-mail address and a password of your choice. Select “Manuals” from the drop-down box.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/Pages/Search/SearchDetail.aspx?CTID=5010050&CNTYP=PRODUCT

Don’t know about you guys, but they’ve been loading really slow for me for weeks.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Sonnie

Well, I've decided to put my V1700 up for sale and go with the Denon 2807.... :huh:

If you know of anyone looking for a good deal on one... it's right! :yes:


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## Otto

Sonnie said:


> Well, I've decided to put my V1700 up for sale and go with the Denon 2807.... :huh:
> 
> If you know of anyone looking for a good deal on one... it's right! :yes:


Sonnie,

The obvious question -- why? 

Do you already have the Denon? Have you compared it head to head with the Yamaha?


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## Sonnie

Features in a nutshell.

I've owned the 3805, 3806 and installed a couple of 2805's. A couple of things I like are larger volume display from my seat and independent crossovers for each channel. Another is a max volume setting that was handy to control my daughter's finger on the Volume Up button. 

As far as sound... I really don't know. I don't remember much about the 2805's, other than the features. I only ever used the 3805 and 3806 as pre-pro's to my Earthquake amp. They were neutral in their sound IMO. I hope that it will at least still be neutral or on the warm side like the Yamaha, which as stated, I really like.

I know it sounds silly but those few features have really spoiled me and the volume view bugs me to no end.


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## srckkmack

Sonnie,
Sorry to hear the Yamaha didn't work for you. But it sounds like you've had experiences with other equipment, which puts you in a good position to make these sorts of decisions. Bottom line is you've got to be comfortable with your equipment. These minor things can be very bothersome and who needs 'em. You'd think that by now and with a new generation of receiver each year, Yamaha would have these issues mastered :dontknow: . Let us know how the 2807 works out.


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## mike c

yes, please let us know what the 2807 gives up to the 1700 or vice versa.

I for one would like the multiple crossover settings for each channel as well. my HK does it, thanks to your info, now I know Denon has it too.


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## Otto

Sonnie said:


> Features in a nutshell.
> 
> I've owned the 3805, 3806 and installed a couple of 2805's. A couple of things I like are larger volume display from my seat and independent crossovers for each channel. Another is a max volume setting that was handy to control my daughter's finger on the Volume Up button.


Yeah, I know how that is, to be spoiled on whatever little things you like, and then to have them taken away from you. It makes a difference. But independent crossovers for each channel is critical. I would not consider buying a pre/pro/receiver that locked me into a single crossover point for all channels. Max volume would be nice as my daughter gets bigger...



> I know it sounds silly but those few features have really spoiled me and the volume view bugs me to no end.


No way! You know what you like, and there's nothing wrong with that!


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## Sonnie

Thanks guys... I believe we have a comparison thread started between the 2807 and 1700, so I'll definitely update everyone with my thoughts between the two once I get the 2807 in hand.


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## mike c

after checking specs of different brands ... Yamaha is the only manufacturer without different crossover settings for the sets of channels.

HK has it, Denon has it, Onkyo has it.


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## Hakka

Sonnie said:


> A couple of things I like are larger volume display from my seat and independent crossovers for each channel.


I've read a few articles that suggest the independant crossovers can cause phase problems. Maybe someone with this feature could run some tests with REW and see if its possible to optimize the phase setting for more than one crossover frequency.

This one talks about it toward the bottom of the article. I have read others advising against it but I can't find them right now.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html


Good or not, a manufacturer can't afford not to have it when all the others have. I heard Anthem left it out of the D1 (i think) because they thought it was a bad idea but eventually had to offer a software upgrade because of all the customers requesting it be added.


Ideally the AVR would have a variable phase control for all channels, i suppose you could start playing around with speaker distance settings to tweak the crossover points.


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## Sonnie

The major channels I would like independent crossovers is between the sub and the remaining speakers. IOW, as long as I can set the crossover for the sub and then set another for the remaining speakers, I'm cool. I'm generally always going to set the 5.0 speakers to 80Hz, however I may want to set my sub at 90Hz or 100Hz, or possible 70Hz. The phase can be adjusted on most subs.


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## Geoff Gunnell

Be thoughtful with non-matching x-o's, or, regrettably, any x-o other than 80Hz.

Hakka has it right in his previous post #75. The article he links to by Colin Miller and Brian Florian should be required reading for anyone with a receiver or pre/pro capable of different x-o frequencies.

It's the audio article I most refer folks to -- by far.

It's very hard not to get upset by the bottom line, that you really need a block diagram of how your particular DSP chipset manipulates the LFE signal, and that even with such a block diagram you may be stuck using an 80Hz global x-o, and that even then you may have LFE signal truncation since the LFE channel is not brickwalled until 120Hz.


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## Geoff Gunnell

SteveCallas said:


> Manually adjusting the EQ bands is available in the HTR models.


You do get a 7 band EQ with fixed frequencies and no Q adjustment on at least some of the HTR models, similar to what Sonnie has on the 1700.

Compare, say, page 90 of the HTR-6090 manual:
http://www.abtelectronics.com/images/products/PDF_Files/HTR-6090_om.pdf
with page 89 of the RX-V2700 manual:
http://www.yamaha-uk.com/pdf/owner_manuals/RX-V2700.pdf
(couldn't find a 2700 .pdf on a US site anymore -- pagination is different than the US manual in my hand in which the identical PEQ text appears on page 98).

Unless you have actually edited the PEQ's yourself on an HTR, I continue to believe that on the HTR's you have a choice of using the PEQ bands only as set automatically by the YPAO auto setup, or using the manual 7 band EQ instead.


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## Guest

I have read all the threads on the RX-V 1700. I am still not clear on the MPCM question discussed at length earlier. When using my PS3 player with blu-ray, Yamaha is also showing the MPCM in the display when playing the movies. Although the PS3 will show in its on screen display that it is in DTS, DD, etc, the Yamaha is showing the MPCM only. It sounds good but it makes me wonder if that is the best setting or if I have other choices with the receiver. Could/Should I use the DSP settings to improve it or to force DD or DTS?


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## bobgpsr

JoeH said:


> ...the Yamaha is showing the MPCM only. It sounds good but it makes me wonder if that is the best setting or if I have other choices with the receiver. Could/Should I use the DSP settings to improve it or to force DD or DTS?


Since the PS3 has the capability of doing Dolby TrueHD lossless codec decode internally you are best off letting the player (PS3) do the decode and use the uncompressed lossless multichannel linear PCM via HDMI to get the audio to your receiver.


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## Guest

I am happy to see a thread on the Yamaha 1700 and 2700's. I have not had any luck with OSD. I called tech support to find out about such and was informed that if the signal was 480p or less, then the OSD would work. I tried and it did not. Overall, I am still happy with the unit and its perfomance but some of the best features are nearly unusable based on quirky design. I have HDMI in from Dish and from DVD player. On the DVD player, it would not talk well with the Yamaha. I ended up with a screen taller than it was wide. When the movie finally started, it ran for 30-60 sec. and then quickly cycled between green screen, blue screen, snowy, then black out. The pic would come back up but it cycled over and over with no resolve. This may be the DVD player anomoly but I thought it should be posted in case others run into the same thing. Initial set up is fairly intuitive but my skills need to be honed before tackling the user features.


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## Sonnie

Hi Terry and welcome to the Shack! 

OSD worked fine for me. I liked the sound a lot... just a few minor quirks that irritated me.


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## Guest

Sonnie said:


> Hi Terry and welcome to the Shack!
> 
> OSD worked fine for me. I liked the sound a lot... just a few minor quirks that irritated me.



The OSD works if I use component but not when using HDMI. Just to be clear let me add the OSD does not overlay the picture when using HDMI. I generally like the sound but am not happy with the lack of OSD overlay when using the HDMI that should be taken for granted. I spoke with tech rep and was told the in order to ad this feature, a $500 FEE WOULD PROBABLY NEED TO BE ADDED WITH THE UNIT. That is hard to believe.
Thanks for the welcome and the help thus far.


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## Sonnie

Yeah... that is correct. The overlay will not work with HDMI, which is a bummer. I might have actually kept my unit had this worked, because I would have been able to see the volume number then. I possibly could have lived with the other minor quirks.

I don't know of a unit that will overlay via HDMI though. I know my Denon does not overlay either.

I did get the OSD to work via HDMI, but it just wasn't overlay, it was full screen instead.

I think this is something we'll see in future units because I think it is sorely missed.


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## Woochifer

OSD issues are nothing new. They'll almost always be a generation behind during these transitions. My RX-V800 does not do any video upconversion to S-vid or component vid, or pass the OSD through the component vid outputs. Then again, most other manufacturers (including Denon and Onkyo) had their receivers setup the same way at that time. In successive generations, Yamaha migrated the OSD to the component vid outputs, and then implemented video upconversion later on.

More recently, Yamaha's midlevel HDMI receivers only did upconversion for analog video at first, and did not include upconversion to HDMI until the 1600/2600 came out. OSD with HDMI is not a matter of if but when. In the meantime, it's a matter of assessing when the feature set hits the sweet spot such that what the receiver already has is enough to overcome any shortcomings. Because of how quickly the standards and available features evolve, it's inevitable that any receiver model out there will be behind the curve well before the next updated model arrives.


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## Testpattern

Need some insight from those of you that own the RXV1700/2700. 

I'm an old Yamaha fan and have bought a number of their AVRs over the years. My last one was the old DSP-A1 (Flagship at the time). It has, and is, serving me well.

I've recently moved to the HD scene and have updated my HT to accommodate this relative new aspect of AV. The last piece of gear under consideration for updating is my old A1. I'm itching to jump to the 2700 but I'm having difficulty evaluating my potential gain.

Currently I connect video directly to our SXRD via HDMI from several sources and utilize the TV for switching via a Logitech 880 programmable remote. I did connect a composite video feed from the A1 just to have access to it's OSD for the rare occasion when I need it. My SXRD provides all the up scaling and I've found this to be better than letting the S3 Tivo or Elite DVD do the deed. Our Oppo 980 is the only exception since it does a great job of that task on it's own. So, I can't see a benefit for moving to a receiver that has HDMI switching. If anything I'd lose the ability to tweak the various video inputs separately which, admittedly I could live without.

o Does HDMI receiver switching bring anything to the party I may be missing?

The A1 sound performance has always been exceptional and it does a decent job with DD5.1 and DTS but, not much more other than the original Prologic which I never use. It does provide 6.1 support of two front effects speakers which is coupled to a myriad of DSP functions which I never use and frankly have no interest in. I could benefit from SACD capability since the A1 will not handle the bandwidth without HDMI on board. I suppose the newer rear effects could bring something to the theater scene but don't know what exactly since none of the local dealers ever have these set up for demo.

o Does the 7.1 capability provide worthwhile improvement to video or music?

The LFE channel on the A1 leaves a great deal to be desired. It's only X-O is 200 hz which isn't useful with my Servo 15 but I handle that task with the X30 crossover supplied by Paradigm which works... sort of. I'm just starting to set up a BFD 1124P to assist in this department after some more room characterization and experience with REW.

o Do the improved LFE management features make life simpler in dialing in a sub?

So there you have it. My Delima. To sit or jump.

All insight greatly appreciated..... Thanks guys.


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## Guest

*No video problem*

I picked up a new Zenith DVD player (712). If I use RCA's, S-video / digital audio or optical audio & S-video or any combo of these everything works fine. As soon as I try HDMI the picture and sound cut in & out - mostly out. I tried the HDMI with the others hooked up and by itself. I have Direct TV HDMI plugged into the top HDMI slot and I tried switchhing the two around with the same problem. I've tried 3 different HDMI cables that work with other equipment but no luck. Hooking the HDMI directly from DVD to TV works fine. I'm guessing it's just a brain - fart on my end but I can't figure it out. Otherwise I love the 1700!!:huh:


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## Sonnie

I remember having some issues with HDMI, but I think it simply had to do with the settings, which I kept struggling to figure out. Your situation sounds like a bad connection or possibly a bad HDMI cable. 

Btw... welcome to the Shack!


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## Guest

I'm pretty sure it isn't a cable issue. I tried 2 others that work fine and went directly from the DVD to TV and everything is OK. I'm also guessing it is something in the settings but I haven't been able to work it out yet. I like the unit but the owner's manual isn't very user friendly. Hopefully someone will have a solution.:wits-end:


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## Eric Rhodes

I know I'm about 10 years late to the party, But does Anyone have a working remote for this unit they don't need? I just picked up a used 2700 and the remote that came with it doesn't have the NET button on it. So I can not navigate internet radio or files on my network. I would REALLY like to be able to do that. Thanks


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