# Onkyos new line of receivers may not be what they seem



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I have done some comparisons of Onkyo's new lineup of receivers and have found some interesting results between the x05 series and the x06 series.

A comparison of the Onkyo 805 and the 806 revealed this:

805- weight 51 lbs, THD .05%, 3 DSP chips, Burr-Brown DAC's, Audyssey MultiEq XT

806- weight 37 lbs, THD .07%, 2 DSP chips, Cirrus Logic DAC's, Audyssey MultiEq

The 806 does have the new Faroudja CDCi cinema chip that upscales to 1080p and 4 HDMI inputs rather than 3 in the 805 and the 806 has Audyssey Dynamic EQ and THX Loudness but I wonder if the real issue here is the weight making me wonder if they skimped on the amplification section or Power supply?

The 876/906 seems to be on par with the 875/905 but the lower models there seems to have been some skimping on some of the internal parts.
Good information if your looking at upgrading.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Very interesting find Tony. 

I am like you... that weight difference ain't gonna be in chips and software, that's for sure.

And to think... I almost sold my 805 to get an 806. Whoa! I don't need the video chip.


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## takumi (Oct 10, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> I have done some comparisons of Onkyo's new lineup of receivers and have found some interesting results between the x05 series and the x06 series.
> 
> A comparison of the Onkyo 805 and the 806 revealed this:
> 
> ...


would I be able to notice the difference between the 805 and 806?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yes, given the power supply is smaller you would loos the ability to drive it as hard without distortion. The 805 is by far superior to the 806 as the 806 has a THD of .07% and only 2 DSP chips


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Weight differences like that come from smaller transformers and heat sinks in most cases, possibly less metal in the chassis affecting shielding. The first two can be significant differences, the last not.

I'd like to get a look at them to compare, being the type to take things apart and look for such differences, but I don't do much audio service these days and don't see Onkyo warranty stuff at all. I'll ask around and see if any techs have noticed the differences.


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## takumi (Oct 10, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Yes, given the power supply is smaller you would loos the ability to drive it as hard without distortion. The 805 is by far superior to the 806 as the 806 has a THD of .07% and only 2 DSP chips


is the 876 worth the extra money over the 805. currently i have only a need for 3 hdmi inputs(cable box, sony 550, sony PS3) not sure if i will ever need more.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> Yes, given the power supply is smaller you would loos the ability to drive it as hard without distortion. The 805 is by far superior to the 806 as the 806 has a THD of .07% and only 2 DSP chips


How do you conclude "far superior?" I agree that there could be big difference, but have you actually tested them or seen some detail? The difference between .07% and .05% is, in itself, likely meaningless. The fact that there are only 2 chips could just mean greater integration, which could come along with more advanced processing. My guess would be that the Burr-Brown chipset is better by reputation, but that is just a guess, and as fast as things change, who knows? More is not always better. With power supplies and cooling it usually is, but there could be other things going on like some more efficient heat sink design with active cooling.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

takumi said:


> is the 876 worth the extra money over the 805. currently i have only a need for 3 hdmi inputs(cable box, sony 550, sony PS3) not sure if i will ever need more.


If you have the money I would say yes, the 876 has allot more going for it including the HQV Reon chip that has been said to be the best video upscailer available.


lcaillo said:


> How do you conclude "far superior?" I agree that there could be big difference, but have you actually tested them or seen some detail? The difference between .07% and .05% is, in itself, likely meaningless. The fact that there are only 2 chips could just mean greater integration, which could come along with more advanced processing. My guess would be that the Burr-Brown chipset is better by reputation, but that is just a guess, and as fast as things change, who knows? More is not always better. With power supplies and cooling it usually is, but there could be other things going on like some more efficient heat sink design with active cooling.


I had a look at one in one of our local stores here and the 806 is using a noticeably smaller PS and other than that they look almost identical inside. the 876/875 and above use a toroidal power supply.


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> I have done some comparisons of Onkyo's new lineup of receivers and have found some interesting results between the x05 series and the x06 series.
> 
> A comparison of the Onkyo 805 and the 806 revealed this:
> 
> ...


An external limiter/fader is pretty pricey some mulitchannel ones I have seen are thousands of dollars. New video chip will do it right there also. You want a new video chip expect to spend another 300 or 500 dollars. For the lower models if you look inside there is the little mouse on the wheel powering the processing I am guessing.


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## takumi (Oct 10, 2008)

does the sony 550 have a video upscailer? how would i benefit from this upscalier?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I dont recommend going with any Sony receivers. They just dont have a great track record for receivers.
upscaling of video is important if you want to be able to display things like a VCR or older DVD that is only regular resolution on a newer display with 1080i/p. The receiver will upconvert the video signal to 1080p and pass that signal through HDMI.


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## takumi (Oct 10, 2008)

I mean the sony550 blueray player, when i watch dvd's on it is the bluray upscaling it?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

takumi said:


> I mean the sony550 blueray player, when i watch dvd's on it is the bluray upscaling it?


Yes, but if you were to get the Onkyo 876 it would do a better job. Thats not saying that the Sony would not do a fairly decent job and you may not even see a difference. The Reon processor alows you to adjust color tint and all sorts of other settings as well that you cant do in the Sony.


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

Good catch.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

deacongreg said:


> Good catch.


I missed it, what was a good catch?


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## deacongreg (Jul 29, 2008)

Just that maybe there is something up with the new line of receivers. I was saying good catch to that gentlemen. Its worth looking into at least.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> Yes, given the power supply is smaller you would loos the ability to drive it as hard without distortion. The 805 is by far superior to the 806 as the 806 has a THD of .07% and only 2 DSP chips


It's hard to say if this is true. Most likely they will sound identical. When you consider distortion losses throughout the rest of the signal chain, especially speakers and room interactions, the minute differences between DAC's are inconsequential, as is a .02% increase in distortion (or .0002 times more distortion). Lighter weight could also mean a more efficient amplifier design but it's more likely the result of your hunch, higher profit margins :whistling:


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## OvalNut (Jul 18, 2006)

How does this sound as a business plan for this line of receivers:

Overdeliver on one of the first affordable HDMI 1.3 receivers, even to the point of it being a loss leader in an effort to corner market share. Then, on the followup 'upgrade' version, the 806, trim and recoup those initial costs with certain less expensive component pieces such as a less robust power supply.

The consumer logic goes that since the 806 is the newer version, it must be improved, ... right? But the business reality is that the 806 may well be 'paying' for the market share gathered by the 805.

Yea, it's a cynical view, but just kicking ideas around. I'm still pretty sure they are great receivers, regardless.


Tim
:drive:


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

:yeahthat: I was thinking the exact same thing.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hmmmm, I wonder if we will see some sort of bench test done to see if these findings have any truth to them? I'm going to dig a little deeper. I sent an email to Onkyo about this about two weeks ago and have not heard anything back (not that surprising).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok, after doing some looking around I stoped off at the Secrets website I was and have always been very impressed with there bench tests and reviews of equipment. 

Here is the 805's bench test/review
Here is the 806's bench test/review

I can tell you that in there tests the 806 failed badly driving a 4 ohm load but I will let you read for yourself.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

That's a great review of the unit and surprising. Given that it won't pass HDMI unaltered and seems to employ some shady methods of posting power numbers, I'm not sure what I think of it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I also dont like how they are doing the cooling, one centered fan is not a very efficient way to cool such a large heatsync. I'm very glad that I did not wait for the 806 and bought my 805.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Seems to me that having a fan at all in a unit of this power is likely sufficient. Most do not even have fans. It does not take much to cool units of this type.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

lcaillo said:


> Seems to me that having a fan at all in a unit of this power is likely sufficient. Most do not even have fans. It does not take much to cool units of this type.


The 805 has two on demand fans but they are located differently.
Here is the inside of the 805









Here is the inside of the 806


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Looks like plenty of heat sinking to me, and one fan is probably plenty. The transformers look similar, though the new one may be a bit smaller. The filter caps actually look bigger, but it is hard to tell. I have not seen a service manual for the 806 yet so I can't compare more than I can see in these images.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Have you had to do any service work on the Onkyo's Leonard? if so what has been the main problem with them?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I have not worked on much recent stuff. In the past I have seen regulators with bad solder joints, bad digital boards, and a few shorted output transistors. I am not an ASC for them so I don't see warranty work or that much of it. Their service manuals are a little more expensive, and parts are somewhat less likely to be available than Yamaha and Denon, IME. Generally, I find the Yamaha stuff to be better built, while the features are sometimes more packed in the Onkyo.


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