# New theater layout advice needed



## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

Hello,

I'm currently in the planning stages of a theater and would appreciate any input that you might have in regards to the following design.

The max width I have is around 10' and the max length I can see using would be 14'. Ceiling height is about 7' 2.5".

The particular layout attached is what I've come up with as it's in an area with no drops in the ceiling and also no interference from the beam which runs down the middle of the basement. I'd like to try and maintain a 3' wide hallway as the area in the back right corner is a planned play area for my children. A play area is the main thing that is needed, and then a space for a theater is second.










Please let me know if I can provide additional information, or if you have a different design that would fulfill both wants (play area, theater).

Thank you for your time!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That doesn't look bad at all. Where are you planning the door?


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

bpape said:


> That doesn't look bad at all. Where are you planning the door?


I believe I'm going to place the door on the side right before the column. The equipment closet may go in that area as well. I'm open to anything though.

Should I use an AT screen with speakers behind or should I place the screen against the wall?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

It would be best to keep the early reflection zone clear so after the post would be better. Maybe you can build a 'closet' in the left rear corner for the equipment? That makes for shorter video runs to the PJ and the only thing that is long is speaker wires (higher level signal) other than the subwoofer.

Up to you on the screen. The room isn't all that long though and it would start to feel cramped IMO losing another 2'.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

bpape said:


> It would be best to keep the early reflection zone clear so after the post would be better. Maybe you can build a 'closet' in the left rear corner for the equipment? That makes for shorter video runs to the PJ and the only thing that is long is speaker wires (higher level signal) other than the subwoofer.
> 
> Up to you on the screen. The room isn't all that long though and it would start to feel cramped IMO losing another 2'.



Would there be any advantage to keeping both corners in the rear of the room angled? I made the left corner this way to match the rear right end for uniformity purposes

Also, I'm not sure if I want to go 16:9 or 2:35. I feel my center channel wouldn't be able to be placed as high if the screen were to be put against the wall with a 16:9 screen. Angled properly this may not be an issue.

I currently have Polk Rti8's and a Polk CSi5 for the my front speakers.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

If you square out the corners...you can put bass traps in them. :T


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Very true. If you want to angle both rears that's fine. I would want to trap the front ones though. Using an AT screen does let you go wider and keep the mains away from the side walls a bit more.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

bpape said:


> Very true. If you want to angle both rears that's fine. I would want to trap the front ones though. Using an AT screen does let you go wider and keep the mains away from the side walls a bit more.


Plus if you went wall to wall AT screen you could hide the traps (and matt the screen down to whatever size you like, and if you want to change the screen format size...you just change the matting panels), and depending on your speakers you may not loose too much space behind the screen. If you are only going with one row... I think a AT screen might work nicely, plus it is great having the sound from behind the screen IMO. :T


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

Thanks so much for the advice so far.

Yes, my front speakers are no deeper than 16". 18" depth behind screen wall ok? Not sure the amount of treatment on front wall would be needed.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

blobula said:


> Thanks so much for the advice so far.
> 
> Yes, my front speakers are no deeper than 16". 18" depth behind screen wall ok? Not sure the amount of treatment on front wall would be needed.


My speakers are almost touching the screen... Are your speakers happy being close to the wall? We put 2" of Roxul on our front wall, and it worked out nicely.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> My speakers are almost touching the screen... Are your speakers happy being close to the wall? We put 2" of Roxul on our front wall, and it worked out nicely.


I've always had then real close to the wall so I'm saying it won't be an issue.

How big of a door is "normal" for a theater? 24" is way to small, but I don't think a 36" makes sense.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

blobula said:


> I've always had then real close to the wall so I'm saying it won't be an issue.
> 
> How big of a door is "normal" for a theater? 24" is way to small, but I don't think a 36" makes sense.


We went with 36" wide doors in our HT. Don't forget you will need to allow for moving furniture in the room too.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

For a door, 28"-30" will feel like a pretty normal opening. 24" will definitely feel small, and 36" will feel overly commercial. Almost any piece of furniture you can buy can be squeezed through a 30" door, but 28" might be pushing your luck. 

Also - for purposes of getting furniture into the space I would consider putting the door on the back wall instead of the side, but that could very easily create traffic flow issues as it may place the door inconveniently close to the seating at the MLP. The point from Bryan about early reflections is good, but don't forget that you can add material to the door for the purpose of damping that reflection. 

Layout questions are always interesting... we are often tempted to ignore all aspects of design other than those which optimize our listening/viewing experience. But when it comes to size and placement of a door, your best bet is to think of the _function_ of the door above all else. There's nothing sillier than having to live with the regret of putting a door in the wrong place, especially when you have complete control over it. 

Think about subwoofer placement as well. You'll definitely regret putting that door somewhere that makes you walk directly into a cabinet (or a couch, or an equipment rack, or the edge of the screen, or that post on the outside). 

tl/dr - 30" is good.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

ellisr63 said:


> We went with 36" wide doors in our HT. Don't forget you will need to allow for moving furniture in the room too.


Apparently we were thinking the same thing at the same time.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

DqMcClain said:


> For a door, 28"-30" will feel like a pretty normal opening. 24" will definitely feel small, and 36" will feel overly commercial. Almost any piece of furniture you can buy can be squeezed through a 30" door, but 28" might be pushing your luck.
> 
> Also - for purposes of getting furniture into the space I would consider putting the door on the back wall instead of the side, but that could very easily create traffic flow issues as it may place the door inconveniently close to the seating at the MLP. The point from Bryan about early reflections is good, but don't forget that you can add material to the door for the purpose of damping that reflection.
> 
> ...


I appreciate your thoughts.

I'm leaning towards a 30" door as well. I would be fine with placing the door in the rear, however my concern is that might affect my options for rear speaker placement since I would most likely have an equipment type closet and a door on that wall? Ceiling height will be at about 7' when all is said and done.

For lighting do you think 4 6" can lights on one switch, and then some 3" can lights for accent lighting on a different switch be enough? I'm pretty sure 4 6" can lights would be more than enough. If I did a shallow soffit around the room I could place the 3" lights inside.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I would advise against angling he back walls. Angle the room across from the current door & put bass traps in those corners. move the door to in from of the corner (allow enough room for the trap).


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Have you thought about instead of an equipment closet... having a pair of low cabinets across the rear wall with the door in the center to maintain symmetry? Another option if you go with an AT screen would to build a stage under the screen, and put your equipment there,


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

Tonto said:


> I would advise against angling he back walls. Angle the room across from the current door & put bass traps in those corners. move the door to in from of the corner (allow enough room for the trap).


Hi Tonto,

I understand when you suggest not angling the rear walls, but I'm not following you on the second part? A crude sketch might help me visualize what you mean.

Thanks!


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> Have you thought about instead of an equipment closet... having a pair of low cabinets across the rear wall with the door in the center to maintain symmetry? Another option if you go with an AT screen would to build a stage under the screen, and put your equipment there,


That had actually crossed my mind and I'm certainly not opposed to it. I'd definitely want doors, or dark glass that would prevent the various lights from showing in the front on the equipment if I went that route.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

blobula said:


> Hi Tonto,
> 
> I understand when you suggest not angling the rear walls, but I'm not following you on the second part? A crude sketch might help me visualize what you mean.
> 
> Thanks!


I believe what he is saying is...to move the door out of the corners, and then put bass traps in the corners.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I'm not very computer literate...the bottom right room...make the top left corner of that room angled & put the door in it. That way you can extend the wall of the theater room to square it off.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

Did some revisions on the plan I had taking into account all of the advice.

1. I squared the rear walls. 
2. I put in two doors on the plan to try and decide which one to go with. I'm really leaning toward having the door on the side. I like it better.
3. Added a stage
4. Added false wall with 18" of depth behind
5. 106" 2:35 screen. From the screen to the back of the room I'm just under 12'. 11' 11".
6. The concrete that juts out on the left I will probably make a column on the right as well. Two speakers could be placed on them for 7.1 I believe.








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Positive changes?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

blobula said:


> Did some revisions on the plan I had taking into account all of the advice.
> 
> 1. I squared the rear walls.
> 2. I put in two doors on the plan to try and decide which one to go with. I'm really leaning toward having the door on the side. I like it better.
> ...


Looks good to me, but I would ditch the side door as it will most likely be at a first reflection point (you will want treatment at first reflection points)

If you hinge your screen...you could even put your equipment behind the screen (blocking off the lights). If the stage is high enough you can put your equipment below the screen. Which ever way you go make sure you ventilate the equipment area. :T


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

What do you think of the idea of having a pocket door or farmhouse style sliding barn door vs a door that swings into the theater in the back? I wouldn't be able to treat a sliding door I don't believe. 

I understand that would be a weak area of soundproofing, but I'm not trying to obtain 100% complete sound proofing either.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The sliding door if inside the room would be OK - but as you said, soundproofing goes out the window then.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

blobula said:


> I appreciate your thoughts.
> 
> I'm leaning towards a 30" door as well. I would be fine with placing the door in the rear, however my concern is that might affect my options for rear speaker placement since I would most likely have an equipment type closet and a door on that wall? Ceiling height will be at about 7' when all is said and done.
> 
> For lighting do you think 4 6" can lights on one switch, and then some 3" can lights for accent lighting on a different switch be enough? I'm pretty sure 4 6" can lights would be more than enough. If I did a shallow soffit around the room I could place the 3" lights inside.



Yeah, I imagine that will be plenty of light. I would even go so far as to put them on a dimmer switch so you can leave them on nice and low during viewing. For accent lighting, you might look into MR16 cans since they allow a lot of flexibility in terms of beam angle and output... but it might also be cool to use that soffit to mount LED strips. You can get a large quantity of low output, which results in a nice even wash on the wall... and you could build in the option of color mixing so you can customize the color of that wash. 

Another thought - You might enjoy providing some bias lighting on the wall behind the screen. If you paint that wall a neutral grey (some shade of grey that is evenly balanced instead of shifted towards red, green, or blue) and light around the screen at 6500K, you'll provide a color-neutral border around the screen and your eyes will register color more evenly, accurately, and comfortably. The theory is that it reduces eye strain and makes color correction easier and more accurate... which results in a truer reproduction of the original color composition of the source material. Since you're building this room from zero, you have an opportunity many of us don't. You could also be perfectly happy ignoring this line of reasoning entirely.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

blobula said:


> What do you think of the idea of having a pocket door or farmhouse style sliding barn door vs a door that swings into the theater in the back? I wouldn't be able to treat a sliding door I don't believe.
> 
> I understand that would be a weak area of soundproofing, but I'm not trying to obtain 100% complete sound proofing either.


Pocket doors have a huge advantage in that they do not require clearances to open and close, and they also open completely which makes it easier to get things in and out of the room... but the biggest drawback is not the door itself but the void in the wall where it must live while it is open. You're stuck with a section of wall (the width of the door) that cannot have a stud. Normally, this just means you can't hang something on that side of the door. This may or may not be an issue... but what is likely to be an issue is the fact that you'll have a very large surface area of wall material that is unsupported and therefore almost impossible to dampen. It will vibrate when the subs get aggressive about delivering The Business, and there isn't much you can do about it (that will actually work) that is not complicated and expensive.

Corners - you had them angled in the first drawing, and my gut reaction is that's the way to go. It will increase the amount of clearance between the new wall and the existing wall, and make that passage feel less cramped. Squaring that off might feel really weird in terms of traffic flow. My next question is this: do you _need_ the room to be symmetrical? Having one corner chamfered and the the other square may not really be an issue... you can make a mount in the squared corner to put a rear channel in the same position relative to MLP as the chamfered corner, and you can kill two birds with one stone by making it look like it is chamfered by building a massive bass trap into that corner.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

DqMcClain said:


> Yeah, I imagine that will be plenty of light. I would even go so far as to put them on a dimmer switch so you can leave them on nice and low during viewing. For accent lighting, you might look into MR16 cans since they allow a lot of flexibility in terms of beam angle and output... but it might also be cool to use that soffit to mount LED strips. You can get a large quantity of low output, which results in a nice even wash on the wall... and you could build in the option of color mixing so you can customize the color of that wash.
> 
> Another thought - You might enjoy providing some bias lighting on the wall behind the screen. If you paint that wall a neutral grey (some shade of grey that is evenly balanced instead of shifted towards red, green, or blue) and light around the screen at 6500K, you'll provide a color-neutral border around the screen and your eyes will register color more evenly, accurately, and comfortably. The theory is that it reduces eye strain and makes color correction easier and more accurate... which results in a truer reproduction of the original color composition of the source material. Since you're building this room from zero, you have an opportunity many of us don't. You could also be perfectly happy ignoring this line of reasoning entirely.


Thank you so much for your thoughts.

I am all about the accent lighting by the screen, led strips around the soffit etc... I love that type of look. My struggle is planning it all out the exact way I want it, but that can also be a problem because I'll never settle on something.

Led lighting in the soffit is a great look and I also like the led lighting along the bottom trim area of the floor. I want to make sure the room is sleek and clean and I don't overdo anything.

My main reason for angling both walls was to make the room symetrical, but also I had a thought of possibly putting a dead vent in the left angled wall that was an empty cavity.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

If it were my room I'd keep the back corners square & put triangular bass absorbers in them. The end result will be an angled appearance.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Pocket doors do indeed not take a lot of space. That said, they're almost certain to rattle when the sub kicks in. Also, I would make the depth behind the screen wall 24". At 18", there are a lot of subs that won't fit back there.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

bpape said:


> Pocket doors do indeed not take a lot of space. That said, they're almost certain to rattle when the sub kicks in. Also, I would make the depth behind the screen wall 24". At 18", there are a lot of subs that won't fit back there.


Just thinking out loud but I wonder if having a double stud wall with the door sliding between them would do anything? Might be able to construct something with weather stripping that could seal around the door. 

Are bass traps needed in all fours corners?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

blobula said:


> Just thinking out loud but I wonder if having a double stud wall with the door sliding between them would do anything? Might be able to construct something with weather stripping that could seal around the door.
> 
> Are bass traps needed in all fours corners?


I was thinking of this, and I might have come up with a better idea... When you have a pocket door you have a problem when the door is closed the cavity is open and subject to let sound through. My idea is to use a hanging door on one side, and then install some nice seals to seal the door. You could put some tracks on the side of the door opening to assure that they door doesn't float out, and maintains a nice seal.

Bass traps are best used in all corner IMO, but Bryan can tell you definitively.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I guess my big question is why not just a single 36" wide door that opens out? That solves all of the issues and for a lot less work and money. It's opening into the kids' playroom so it's not like it's a party place with a bar and pool table that you'd like to be able to see from.


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## UreiCollector (Oct 29, 2009)

Personally, I would avoid putting the door near the front of the room...that location is a major source of first reflections, and one of the first areas you would want to treat with acoustic absorption. The inevetable movement of people into and out of the room during movies will also be a distraction. 

For lighting, I'd suggest going with separate dimmers for each "row" of lights...that way you can trim the lighting level at the front/mid/rear/wall accent locations. It's just a little extra work at the front end of the project...having to change it after the room is done would be way more effort.

Since no walls are framed yet...have you considered building the walls at non-right angles? Parallel walls are awful acoustically, you have more flexibility than most of us, give you haven't framed anything yet.


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## UreiCollector (Oct 29, 2009)

One more thought...I don't see a double bottom plate in your drawings. The first bottom plate in contact with the concrete should be pressure treated and nailed to the concrete. Then you build the wall on the floor (laying down) with a regular top plate and bottom plate, but 1 1/2 inches short....tip it up and slide it in between the first bottom plate and the floor joists above..plumb it and nail. 

I'd also recommend a sub-floor like DRIcore, it will leave an airgap for the concrete to breathe (lot's of moisture can work it's way through a slab suprisingly), and will make the room comfortable enough to wear socks in even during the dead of winter.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

Thank you for the thoughts UreiCollector.

Yeah I think I will keep the door in the back and have it swing out rather than into the room. 

No nothing has been framed yet. My sketchup isn't accurate down to the exact framing, but I do appreciate the tips and reminders. Are you saying frame all four corners of the room to be angled? Per other suggestions it also seems best to keep them at 90 degress and place bass traps in the corners.

For lighting I was thinking of going with the Lutron Caseta system. Trying to read up more on it. I'd be open to other options that have worked for others. 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XPW6824/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

> I guess my big question is why not just a single 36" wide door that opens out? That solves all of the issues and for a lot less work and money. It's opening into the kids' playroom so it's not like it's a party place with a bar and pool table that you'd like to be able to see from.


I agree. I'll go that route.


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## UreiCollector (Oct 29, 2009)

blobula said:


> Thank you for the thoughts UreiCollector.
> 
> Yeah I think I will keep the door in the back and have it swing out rather than into the room.
> 
> ...


I'm in agreement with the others that bass traps in the corner would be more beneficial than chopping off the corners. What I'm referring to is that our rooms tend to be retangular boxes, with side walls, front to back walls, and ceiling to floor being parallel to each other. Recording studios are one place you'll never see this arrangement, though most of us don't have the flexibility to mimic a studio, you have a blank slate that affords you at least a little flexibility. If only possible in one plane, say perhaps side walls, it's better than nothing...a trapezoid shaped room should have a less problematic issue with at least the side to side standing wave. Though it does change the angle of the first reflection off the side walls, and could alter your acoustic treatment. Just food for thought, so everything is considered before you start framing.

You would of course need a new plan for the space outside of the room, as getting around the theater would become more restricted, and you would waste a little space behind the screen, but it's all about compromises. Notice in the attached image that front to back would still be parallel (orange arrow), but side to side is now non-parallel (green arrow). I do subscribe to a symmetrical room, at least at the front end...but anything that helps break up the shape of a room and make it less boxy is generally a good thing.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

UreiCollector said:


> I'm in agreement with the others that bass traps in the corner would be more beneficial than chopping off the corners. What I'm referring to is that our rooms tend to be retangular boxes, with side walls, front to back walls, and ceiling to floor being parallel to each other. Recording studios are one place you'll never see this arrangement, though most of us don't have the flexibility to mimic a studio, you have a blank slate that affords you at least a little flexibility. If only possible in one plane, say perhaps side walls, it's better than nothing...a trapezoid shaped room should have a less problematic issue with at least the side to side standing wave. Though it does change the angle of the first reflection off the side walls, and could alter your acoustic treatment. Just food for thought, so everything is considered before you start framing.
> 
> You would of course need a new plan for the space outside of the room, as getting around the theater would become more restricted, and you would waste a little space behind the screen, but it's all about compromises. Notice in the attached image that front to back would still be parallel (orange arrow), but side to side is now non-parallel (green arrow). I do subscribe to a symmetrical room, at least at the front end...but anything that helps break up the shape of a room and make it less boxy is generally a good thing.


Very interesting! The room could always be flipped as well so the 'wide' portion is on the back concrete wall. This would make getting around the theater room better.


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## UreiCollector (Oct 29, 2009)

blobula said:


> ...For lighting I was thinking of going with the Lutron Caseta system. Trying to read up more on it. I'd be open to other options that have worked for others.
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00XPW6824/ref=ask_ql_qh_dp_hza


I like that idea a lot! I had used the Lutron IR dimmers in my last room, and loved them. I could program the "scene" to different levels for each section of the room (3 zones), so when the lights turned on they all came up to a different visually pleasing start levels, then i could use the up and down dim and they would all track together. It was inexpensive and worked very well! I believe I had to reprogram the scene after power outages, but it wasn't a big deal, and they may have that issue fixed in the newer dimmers. Integration with the Logitech Remotes on this new product you linked to is a very welcome addition. I think you've tipped me off to my next set of dimmers, thanks Blobula!


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

blobula said:


> Very interesting! The room could always be flipped as well so the 'wide' portion is on the back concrete wall. This would make getting around the theater room better.


The non-rectangular room idea is great for acoustics, but will be really difficult to make look good inside your house since everything else is square. Here's an idea that makes use of the benefits of non-parallel walls but doesn't violate the architectural design of the rest of the house. I also drew it with just the one corner chopped off, and the other has the bass trap that makes the full corner visually match the chopped corner. That way you still get the easy access to the back room. 

The side walls are just a concept... you could play with the depth and angle as you like.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

Very cool. Would the angles represented in the drawing be framed walls, or would that be framed paneled walls built inside the actual rectangular area wrapped in acoustic fabric?


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

I suppose you could do that however you like... but if you build them into the walls (cheaper and easier during framing), you're stuck with them as they are. If you make them as frames you can move/adjust to your liking, but it adds time and money to the project. For myself, I would probably build them into the framing of the walls and insulate the inside of that chamber, and then put absorption panels on each angled face. The biggest advantage is that the early reflection points will angle that reflection away from MLP, and the uneven surface will destroy secondary/tertiary reflections very rapidly. You'll end up with a very "dead" room, but that means minimal surface interaction with the signal which is generally a good thing.


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## blobula (Nov 17, 2013)

DqMcClain said:


> I suppose you could do that however you like... but if you build them into the walls (cheaper and easier during framing), you're stuck with them as they are. If you make them as frames you can move/adjust to your liking, but it adds time and money to the project. For myself, I would probably build them into the framing of the walls and insulate the inside of that chamber, and then put absorption panels on each angled face. The biggest advantage is that the early reflection points will angle that reflection away from MLP, and the uneven surface will destroy secondary/tertiary reflections very rapidly. You'll end up with a very "dead" room, but that means minimal surface interaction with the signal which is generally a good thing.


If this was our "forever home" I'd probably consider framing them into the wall if I went that route, but in my current situation I feel more comfortable just framing a rectangular room. I love the look that might provide though.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If you are going to splay the walls I would highly recommend doing it symmetrically where it is narrower in the front and wider in the rear but front and rear walls parallel. Splay both side walls, not just one. The odd shape is great for a studio live room but I wouldn't do it in the control room where symmetry is key. Same goes for a listening room or home theater room. 

The other issue with building them in like that during framing is that it shoots any chance of isolation - unless you're going to drywall both sides of the room. If you're going to be moving at some point, it's easier to just get something that can be easily removed (or negotiated).


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