# sub comparison



## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hey guys , need some help. I have a SVS PB1000 , I really like this sub, but I want alittle more output. Outlaw has there LFM 1 pluses on sale this week for the same price. I'am still in my audition window for the svs and was wondering if the outlaw would be an upgrade and far as low end output and overall performance?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

On not at all, the PB1000 is way better in all ways it goes deeper and the output is higher. The PB1000 goes down to 19Hz where the LFM only hits 24Hz and at less DB output.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> On not at all, the PB1000 is way better in all ways it goes deeper and the output is higher. The PB1000 goes down to 19Hz where the LFM only hits 24Hz and at less DB output.


+1
And it's a lot easier to setup 2 of the same.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> On not at all, the PB1000 is way better in all ways it goes deeper and the output is higher. The PB1000 goes down to 19Hz where the LFM only hits 24Hz and at less DB output.


Wow, so the svs outperforms the lfm1 plus? So I guess I would have to step up to a Rythmik lv12r or the outlaw lfm 1 ex?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Hey, sorry. I don't know why I thought you were gonna put in a 2nd sub. Can't read I guess. Of the two you mentioned, I like the rythmik myself. I've always thought outlaws strengths were elsewhere in the company. I've seen their subs in a number of shootouts, and they always seem to finish in the middle of the pack. And even with the rythmik, I'd be wary of making a lateral move. In the entry level market, all manufactures have to save money somewhere, and I think they mostly do it in the same places. I would guess the advantage that the rythmik has with the bigger driver, (ext) would be offset by having basically the same power as your SVS, however, rythmiks servo technology is very well regarded, but at this price point I still think performance would be similar. The point I guess is that for all the trouble of shipping and reordering etc., the end result might not be worth all the work. Now, if you were talking about a new ultra, that'd be different.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

I strongly disagree about the LFM1 plus. This is definitely a better sub then the PB1000. This is basically the same sub as the Hsu VTF2.4. It is a 12" driver vs the SVS 10" and has adjustable output via two ports with extension down to 18Hz in one port mode.

Is it a big enough difference to justify returning one sub and ordering another? Maybe not. If you want a lot more output than the PB1000 a larger bump up is probably in order to make it worth while.

Have a look at the PB2000, Hsu VTF3.4, and PSA XV15.

The LFM1 plus and LV12R will be small upgrades imo.


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## Aundudel25 (Dec 13, 2013)

park41 said:


> Hey guys , need some help. I have a SVS PB1000 , I really like this sub, but I want alittle more output. Outlaw has there LFM 1 pluses on sale this week for the same price. I'am still in my audition window for the svs and was wondering if the outlaw would be an upgrade and far as low end output and overall performance?


I don't think the Outlaw LFM-1 plus would be a big upgrade. How much more output are you exactly looking for? Budget and size of your room might help with suggestions as well.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

+1 what is your budget? And room size?


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## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

The LFM-1 plus will have significantly more output(4-5db from 30hz on up). It only is down 3db to the EX-1. The PB-1000 is down 3db to the PB12NSD as well. Go to data-bass.com/systems and you can directly compare the EX-1 to the NSD, subtract 3db and get an idea on how the Plus and 1000 will perform. You will see that the they are only close in the 20-25hz range, from 30hz on up the Outlaw pulls away.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Basshead81 said:


> You will see that the they are only close in the 20-25hz range, from 30hz on up the Outlaw pulls away.


Thats not usually a good thing. From 30Hz and up your in room boost will help. You want a sub that has a flat response all the way through its operating range. SVS excels in that area.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

My room is 17x15 with vaulted ceilings ,the right side of my living room opens up to a kitchen that is 15x11 with a 8 foot ceilings. By no means i'am I disappointed by the PB1000. Just thought with another 100 dollars I could get alittle more performance, the pb1000 rumbles and shakes the furniture, but it seems from some of the comments here that the outlaw and Rythmik hit harder. I was thinking about getting another pb1000 latter, but than I would be up 1000 for subs, might as well just spend some extra dollars on a bigger sub if i'am going to do that. I know SVS has a nice upgrade policy, so I might have to save a couple more dollars and get the pb2000.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If you did not already have the PB1000 I would recommend the LFM-Plus too.
But with the SVS already in place I don't know if the difference is enough to make the switch either.
It is more or less a lateral move.
Shipping is included in the SVS pricing, if you send it back do you incur shipping charges?
If you do it makes switching even less appealing.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

park41 said:


> My room is 17x15 with vaulted ceilings ,the right side of my living room opens up to a kitchen that is 15x11 with a 8 foot ceilings. By no means i'am I disappointed by the PB1000. Just thought with another 100 dollars I could get alittle more performance, the pb1000 rumbles and shakes the furniture, but it seems from some of the comments here that the outlaw and Rythmik hit harder. I was thinking about getting another pb1000 latter, but than I would be up 1000 for subs, might as well just spend some extra dollars on a bigger sub if i'am going to do that. I know SVS has a nice upgrade policy, so I might have to save a couple more dollars and get the pb2000.


If I were you I'd just go for the second PB1000, it'll help with smoothing your room response and provide give you better results than one larger sub.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

This is where it gets fun. Lots of helpful advice to go around. IMO, the 2nd pb1k would help to smooth for sure. Especially in a case of adjoining spaces. However the reason he's talking about subs again is output. I still feel the same as before. The rythmik, and outlaw subs are good. The outlaw even got an audioholics large room stamp. But I think for all the effort, he'll still be wanting more. Nothing worse than buyers remorse, and it seems he has a small case now. If it were my space, I would at least trade up to a PC or PB plus, and maybe even put it in a rear corner. If the budget is really in trouble, then maybe do a PB2k.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> This is where it gets fun. Lots of helpful advice to go around. IMO, the 2nd pb1k would help to smooth for sure. Especially in a case of adjoining spaces. However the reason he's talking about subs again is output. I still feel the same as before. The rythmik, and outlaw subs are good. The outlaw even got an audioholics large room stamp. But I think for all the effort, he'll still be wanting more. Nothing worse than buyers remorse, and it seems he has a small case now. If it were my space, I would at least trade up to a PC or PB plus, and maybe even put it in a rear corner. If the budget is really in trouble, then maybe do a PB2k.


You're telling me .... I've finally heard a small portion of what a sub that can dig deep sounds like(coming from a lava). I just saw the lfm1 plus on sale and thought that would give me a bump in volume without breaking the bank.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

park41 said:


> You're telling me .... I've finally heard a small portion of what a sub that can dig deep sounds like(coming from a lava). I just saw the lfm1 plus on sale and thought that would give me a bump in volume without breaking the bank.


Oh yeah, what a feeling too! No turning back now!


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

You may try and order the compatibly priced HSU (it also has a 30 day satisfaction guarantee) perhaps you will like its sound better. You can also ask you local audio stores to see if they will let you listen to what they have to offer in your room. If all are still lacking then I would recommend revisiting your budget. You can also take a look at what is available on your local craigs list, sometime you can find a gem


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If a sub is returned does the customer incur shipping charges ?


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

chashint said:


> If a sub is returned does the customer incur shipping charges ?


It all depends on who u buy from. Some manufacturers pay shipping both ways if your not satisfied, I think that's how SVS works but I could be wrong.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

chashint said:


> If a sub is returned does the customer incur shipping charges ?


Not if you are in the 45 day audition window, they will pay for shipping back. I have 15 days left, that's why I was asking about other possible subs.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

So from the replies I've gotten, I guess the prevailing sentiment is to too keep the PB1000 , unless i'am stepping up to a another 300 dollars. Its hard to believe that a 10 inch sub , could have almost the same performance as a 12 inch sub from outlaw and rythmik, but the output its puts out for its size is impressive.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

I think that's a smart move, if you decide to add a second one later down the road I'm sure you'll be happy.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

park41 said:


> So from the replies I've gotten, I guess the prevailing sentiment is to too keep the PB1000 , unless i'am stepping up to a another 300 dollars. Its hard to believe that a 10 inch sub , could have almost the same performance as a 12 inch sub from outlaw and rythmik, but the output its puts out for its size is impressive.


A lot has to do with three points, Xmax, driver sensitivity and amplifier. Xmax is the extension of the driver cone. The larger the extension, the more sensitive the driver, the better the amplification, the more air is moved.


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## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

park41 said:


> Not if you are in the 45 day audition window, they will pay for shipping back. I have 15 days left, that's why I was asking about other possible subs.





park41 said:


> So from the replies I've gotten, I guess the prevailing sentiment is to too keep the PB1000 , unless i'am stepping up to a another 300 dollars. Its hard to believe that a 10 inch sub , could have almost the same performance as a 12 inch sub from outlaw and rythmik, but the output its puts out for its size is impressive.


Since you're within the 45 days you could return the SVS and try LFM1-Plus if you really, really wanted to. I'm guessing you won't be disappointed. Outlaw would charge you for return shipping, though.

I have the LFM1-Plus and like it. I also think that it wouldn't be THAT big of an upgrade over the PB-1000, though I've never heard it. Save for a bigger upgrade...:sn:


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

Since you are considering/willing to up the budget enough to make the upgrade worthwhile, the PB2000 would be a strong upgrade, as would the PSA XV15(although price is going up $100 5/1)


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Bear123 said:


> Since you are considering/willing to up the budget enough to make the upgrade worthwhile, the PB2000 would be a strong upgrade, as would the PSA XV15(although price is going up $100 5/1)


After driving myself crazy debating , I called svs to return the pb 1000 and ordered a 2000 from the outlet for 229.00 more. I am done....for now.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Congrats! Until upgraditis strikes again! J/k. I hope you love it. Let us know how she go!


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

park41 said:


> After driving myself crazy debating , I called svs to return the pb 1000 and ordered a 2000 from the outlet for 229.00 more. I am done....for now.


Congrats, you'll be much happier with the PB-2000. And yes, we look forward to your first impression comments.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

park41 said:


> After driving myself crazy debating , I called svs to return the pb 1000 and ordered a 2000 from the outlet for 229.00 more. I am done....for now.


A good decision, I believe you will be very happy with the performance for the money spent. I had a PB2000 and they hit very hard for movies.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The 2000 is a considerable upgrade over the 1000, but at 50%+ more $$ it should be.
In 3rd party tests SVS has proven to match the spec sheet, you should hear a difference assuming you were maxing out the 1000.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

chashint said:


> The 2000 is a considerable upgrade over the 1000, but at 50%+ more $$ it should be.
> In 3rd party tests SVS has proven to match the spec sheet, you should hear a difference assuming you were maxing out the 1000.


While the PB 1000 is a good sub I wanted some headroom. There where a few times during particular movies, Prometheus and Transformers DSOTM, where I heard some clipping during heavy low frequency moments. So, I wanted to be totally satisfied .The 1000 was 499 and 2000 was 729(outlet) not really 50% more. Hopefully the 2000 will give me the extra punch and headroom.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Subwoofers are a bit of an addiction, until you reach your subwoofer bliss.

In the case of subwoofers, money can and will buy happiness.

Too a point, in the case of subwoofers, more is better.

(i am a subwoofer enabler)

(i am not the voice of reason)

When you get the 2000 dialed in, as soon as you can, allow me to encourage you to purchase a second one. The benefit, the room will come alive in a way you haven't experienced. Two is better than one.

Congratulations on your willingness to step up to the 2000.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

park41 said:


> While the PB 1000 is a good sub I wanted some headroom. There where a few times during particular movies, Prometheus and Transformers DSOTM, where I heard some clipping during heavy low frequency moments. So, I wanted to be totally satisfied .The 1000 was 499 and 2000 was 729(outlet) not really 50% more. Hopefully the 2000 will give me the extra punch and headroom.


I never ran out of headroom down low for movies with the PB2000.....I found it to be VERY solid in this area, very strong to below 16Hz, with lots of great tactile rumble on movies. I think you will be pleased. I agree with Bee as well, might as well start considering where to put the second one


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