# General NooB Scenario....



## cb1 (Feb 4, 2011)

Hey, 

Here's my scenario:

1 - In process of finishing basement. With requisite 2 small basement windows easily blacked out.

2 - Primarily for whole family. (3 kids 14 is oldest)

3 - This will be the third TV in the house. The 2 upstairs are 42" (so they are perfectly fine for watching)

4 - Planning on a large screen for downstairs (well - by that I mean 55" to 60")

5 - But realize I could put a projector there and have a much larger screen. I do have the space between soffets to hang a project about 13' from the wall.

6 - I've researched a bit about projectors and know that they aren't for everyday flipping and that the bulb has a limited life. Remember I have kids that will LOVE this basement - friends, video games, nickalodeon... all that channel surfing stuff that isn't good for a projector)

7 - My thought was "okay - we put in a big plasma now, then a year down the road we put in a projector with a rollaway screen for movie nights. (the screen would pull down in front of the plasma.)

Question - does anybody do it this way? Is it a dumb idea? Is it taboo in a "home theater" forum to even ask such a question?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks!


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

There are a lot of people that do it this way and if I were in your position, I would have done it this way as well and a majority of the members here would probably agree. There are a couple of things to take into consideration such as multiple displays, but those can be overcome with simple hardware additions when you add the projector. Go for IT! :T


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## cb1 (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks Dale - I was surprised how many people looked at the thread without replying. I thought "Man - I've said something taboo and they are going to kick me out of the forum."

Glad to see it's not the case.

This basement has been 12 years in the making. The wife said we'd better finish it before jr. leaves for college. So it isn't like we sitting on piles of cash. Hence - the projector is definitely a luxury down the road a bit.
They are putting in electricity today and Monday - so I've added an outlet for the eventual projector.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

You're are very welcome. Which plasma are you looking at?


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## koyaan (Mar 2, 2010)

A TV with a projection screen in front is the best of all possible worlds. That is definitely the way I'd recommend. 
Dont foget to wire for the projector when your finishing the cieling.It may sound obvious, but I'd overlook it.


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## cb1 (Feb 4, 2011)

Not beholden to any make or model yet.

Everytime I walk into Best Buy (they are a quarter mile from my house) - they say "Panasonic!". The scary thing is that they ALL say "Panasonic!"

That makes me wonder if BB isn't paid to push the brand. But I'm open.

Hey - followed your HT link. Very cool little room. Any component help - I am all ears - but know there is a specific forum category for that.

As for your theater - ours is going to be themed classic monsters and 50's sci-fi. I dig your Sleepy Hollow poster. Useless trivia: after the movie came out most of the props were auctioned off. You could have a prop pumpkin for between $300 and $500. I almost jumped. Huge fan of that movie.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Actually, I would also suggest Panasonic as would a lot of members. Samsung makes a gorgeous looking plasma as well, but the most people lean towards Panasonic. That being said, I have never gone to look at both units in a side by side comparison. I had a personal experience with Samsung products in the past that leave me questioning their commitment to quality so I personally avoid them. Again, this was my personal experience and I know others who have had nothing but the best things to say about Samsung.

I to am a fan of Sleepy Hollow, my wife and I really enjoy scary movies and any sci-fi/fantasy/horror type of film out there. It gives us a break from all the noise that is usually on the TV. We are going to work towards a different theme in our room in the coming months but have yet to agree on a direction. I am sure we will come up with something soon though.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Agreed, plasma with a retractable screen in the future. Panasonic seems to be the best bang for the buck right now. 

How far away are you planning on sitting from your TV/Screen? How wide is the wall your Display will be going on? What are you planning on using for sound?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

You could also look at an LED based projector which has no bulb to replace. However, I am not sure if there is as yet any that are not expensive. It depends on how rambunkous your kids and friends are, plasmas are gentle creatures... or atleast they used to be.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Not sure how long ago plasma's were "gentle creatures", but they don't appear to be any more fragile than an LED or LCD.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Dale Rasco said:


> Not sure how long ago plasma's were "gentle creatures", but they don't appear to be any more fragile than an LED or LCD.


I wouldn't call plasmas "gentle creatures", but they do require a little more care and feeding, especially with regard to static images. I've had some long term image retention on my Samsung C450 (that was a long week waiting for that to fade), and my dad had to get a panel replacement on his A450 due to burn in caused by Samsungs own menu (no matter how much you turn down the brightness/contrast, the menu runs at full brightness and can cause burn in.)

That being said, just don't use a plasma as a computer monitor, and any image retention you get should fade after a couple hours usage.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

When considering bulb vs LED proj, do the math on how many hours you get out of a bulb, and how much the cost difference is. Right now, the premium for LED based is pretty high, and with the difference you can buy a lot of bulbs and put on a lot of hours.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I remember when if you looked at them funny a pixel would burn out


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Ah, wasn't thinking of the burn in thing, but that was some time back. The problem is that it was such a problem, most people don't realize it isn't an issue anymore. Even if used as an HTPC display.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Not trying to disagree Dale, but mine is current gen and when the tech came to take a look at some flashing pixels (apparently normal for a new unit) he commented on the image retention from a 4x3 wii game and cautioned me against it. Said burn in was less frequent, but still a real concern. My dad's that needed a panel replaced is only 2 gens old. 

I'm a huge Plasma fan, best picture you can get for the $ IMO, but I'm not willing to bet my TV that burn in has been extinguished, especially considering my first hand experience. 

Just calibrate your plasma and keep it away from static images and you'll be fine.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I have a good friend who has a new plasma (less then two years old) and its got burn in particularly the TLC logo as he watches lots of shows on the channel and Im very surprised that TLC has not gotten allot of complaints about it given how "hot" that station ID is with the Red Background and White letters.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

eugovector said:


> Not trying to disagree Dale, but mine is current gen and when the tech came to take a look at some flashing pixels (apparently normal for a new unit) he commented on the image retention from a 4x3 wii game and cautioned me against it. Said burn in was less frequent, but still a real concern. My dad's that needed a panel replaced is only 2 gens old.
> 
> I'm a huge Plasma fan, best picture you can get for the $ IMO, but I'm not willing to bet my TV that burn in has been extinguished, especially considering my first hand experience.
> 
> Just calibrate your plasma and keep it away from static images and you'll be fine.


There was actually an interesting study performed by the IDC on image retention and what is real and what is myth. I've linked it below but the conclusion is:

_"CONCLUSION 
The commonly held beliefs about the viability and performance quality of plasma TVs
turn out to be merely myths when held up to the discerning eye of quantifiable testing.
In particular, concerns about plasma lifetimes and image retention ("burn in") are halftruths
that may have been legitimate concerns for early generations of plasma
displays, but are non-issues with today’s current generation products. Yes, plasmas
may show signs of retention if still images are left on the display for very long periods
of time (such as 24 hours or more), but even in this extreme example, the result is
only temporary. Today’s plasma TVs essentially heal themselves with subsequent
viewing of regular TV material. As a result, more common scenarios of 5 to 10 minute
(or even several hour) image pauses will not cause permanent damage."​_
Referenced Document:

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/p.../273087528Pioneer DTV White Paper - FINAL.pdf


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

If you plan on doing the screen over screen thing (and I think it's a great plan) look into getting an AVR with 2 HDMI outs. That way you should have no issues with HDCP handshake.

Screen Innovations website has a very good screen/projector/size calculator that should prove invaluable in planning your room. 

Also since you're in the planning stage do some reading on room treatment a sound proofing. 

Plan where your outlets are going!!!

If this is going to be a high traffic area I may also suggest going in-wall/ceiling with your speakers (get them out of the way)

Panasonic is my default brand of choice when it comes to plasma. The S2 I can literally punch the screen and hurt my hand more then the TV. The G20 has great black levels. The VT20/25 is IMO the best TV you can get new today. Remember CES just happened and the 2011 TVs will be out soon. 

Do get both your displays calibrated, you can get close with THX modes and a little tweaking but to get the most accurate picture possible have the displays tuned by a trained ISF tech. 

Get good quality cables in your wall/ceiling, you don't want to have to pull those out later. monoprice.com is your friend. 

Look at getting a harmony remote, 900 or 1100 with RF extenders. This way you can keep your equipment safe from flying wii-motes and won't have to spend the next 3 weeks trying to figure out what button the neighbor kids pushed to turn your sound system off. 

Measure your components before you buy furniture, remember to add depth for cable bundles that don't flex so well. 

Talk to people, even sales people. Some have great ideas. Just remember what opinions are like. 

Demo as many speakers as you can:
This is where I get on my soap box...
Pick out 2-3 CDs you know, love, and can recognize in 2 notes or less. Tracks that are recorded well. Something simple with male vocals. Same with female vocals. A track with deep base. Maybe a good action DVD as well. Listen to them. Take note of different movements and how the instruments play off eachother. Now take these discs with you to every electronics store. Have the clerk play your recordings but be sure they are quiet during playback. Try to go during times the store will be slow. Remember you're not buying today. You should visit each store several times. Once in the morning, when your ears are still fresh, even drive to the store with the radio off. Once at the end of the day, or even better after a movie, when your ears are at their worst. Remember the goal here is to get a feel for the speakers not just to be blown away at how loud they can get. 
Finally, when you have it down to say 3/4 speakers bring your wife to take a listen. 


Above all else have fun!!!
Good luck.


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## cb1 (Feb 4, 2011)

For whatever reason I havent been getting emails showing new posts... imagine my surprise when I see the thread took on a life of it's own!

Thanks for this new information.

The "wall" is probably 12' - 14' wide, 7' and change tall.

I have an AC sofit about 10' back that the projector would sit behind and lower-than.

Our couch could be anywhere from nose distance to 14'. So really - it's pretty decent. Behind that will be a table and the bar.

I have a bigger space - but are putting a ping pong table there. The flow in this smaller space is actually nicer and not so dis-jointed.

I'll post pictures later. I have a lot of learning to do with Rab-Bytes comments. But that's cool. Look forward to it.

*Question* - I really am not that interested in having the components - other than speakers down the road - on that wall. How long of cables can a person get for dish, blu-ray, etc?

Thanks!


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## cb1 (Feb 4, 2011)

and yes - I am over planning my outlets!


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

About 35' HDMI before you might need a booster. Up side is only short cables to AVR then long ones to display devices. 

This is where the RF remote comes in handy (no line of sight needed)


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## randal_r (Nov 11, 2011)

The room you are planning sounds like a place for special showings and events (or how ever your family chooses to use it). Considering the possible ambient lighting I would consider a projection unit. An advantage it might have is that one can adjust the image range if one utilizes a short throw lens. I frequently come across individuals who love the size of the new display but later want something bigger after they become acclimatized. 

As for the bulb life issue, you might consider running the projector on what some call "power saving" or "half power". This will take the bulbs life from 2000 hrs to 3000 hrs.

What ever your choice maybe, consider having it calibrated for the ultimate experience. Please keep in mind these are just my opinions. Good luck with it.

Randal


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