# Help with audio recomendations



## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

Hi All,

Very new to the audio side of the home theater, I just purchased my first plasma and that was the easy part. I did a bunch of research before I purchased with the knowledge that I would need a sound system at some point in time seeing as the speakers that come with the TV are useless. I have been doing some research on which way I should go, HTIB or piece a system together. I was looking at some HTIB systems such as the Samsung ones and found out that you really can't upgrade these types of systems so I will stay away from those. I would really like to piece together a system, mainly for future upgrades. 

Let me tell you what my room dimensions are and we can start from there. This will be in a living room that is 12' x 17' x 7' height. So the room is rectangular with a fireplace at one end and a staircase at the other of the 12' walls, my house is a small cape. The TV is on the inside 17' wall with the furniture against the outside 17' wall with a bay window. 

I've been doing a lot of searching and just don't know where to start with the speakers. I kind of know what I want for a receiver, I was looking at the Denon AVR-1612, but the speakers have me a little lost. I was looking at some of the speaker systems that Newegg has like the Energy Take Classic 5.1, Martin Logan or Polk. I just don't know, or would I be better off getting some towers with a really good center. The thing is I have no clue on what a good center speaker is. My budget is also very slim at the moment.

Does anyone know of a good place in my area to go listen to some speakers? My area is Western Massachusetts.

Thanks in advance for any help on this.

Dan


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Dan,

Do you have a budget in mind?

And, piecing together a system is the way to go IMO. It really allows you to get pieces that will last longer. Also, a good two channel system will definitely sound better than a mediocre surround system.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

Well..........I know I can get the 1612 for $199 at Accessories4less which seems to be a good price as far as speakers I might not be able to put together a 5.1 system all at once but I see the prices at Newegg for the speaker systems start out pretty low for the Polk starting at $169 up to $299 for the Energy. I would like to say $500 for a whole system but I know that is not possible so lets just say $500 for speakers for right now. You got to remember x-mass is right around the corner and I have a 10 and 6 year old I have to buy for and mine is really the only income in the house.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Yup, 3 kids here - completely understand.

If it were me, I would start off with a solid 2.0 system, then add a sub, and finally look at adding a center and surrounds.

I have seen the Klipsch WF-35 Icon towers suggested a number of times as they have a MSRP of $1500 and are being sold for $600 right now at Newegg if you are able to stretch the budget a bit. The Klipsch speakers are super efficient, so you would not need to worry at all about outboard amplification.

Another moderator has also recommended this package a number of times:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/value1pkg.html

It is a 2.1 system and HSU is a very reputable manufacturer.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

There are some Polk Audio Monitor60s for 89.99 open box on newegg also monitor50s open box for 71.99 not sure if you want open box but on a limited budget could be a good start.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

I'm OK with open box stuff. I'm even keeping my eyes on Craigslist. I guess what I really need to know is what I need for equipment.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

http://www.fluance.com/product/SXHT...d_Sound_Home_Theater_System_black.eng-91.html $375

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html $299

If you can up your receiver to have the Audessey MultEQ you will be happy, certainly made a difference to mine


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If you are going to start with just a two channel system, the AVR should be capable of supplying their power needs regardless of efficiency. Once you start to add more speakers to the mix, that is when you need to start thinking about how efficient the speakers are and whether adding outboard amplification might be beneficial to remove some of the load from the AVR.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

ALMFamily said:


> If you are going to start with just a two channel system, the AVR should be capable of supplying their power needs regardless of efficiency. Once you start to add more speakers to the mix, that is when you need to start thinking about how efficient the speakers are and whether adding outboard amplification might be beneficial to remove some of the load from the AVR.


See, this is where I get lost.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

tazz said:


> See, this is where I get lost.


Sorry, let me try to spin that a bit differently. Klipsch speakers are widely known to be incredibly efficient. In order to get them to reference level, it takes very little power - my favorite expression is from JJ "you could drive them with a AM/FM radio :bigsmile: - so this type of highly efficient speaker will not need an amplifier (like an Emotive amp) to provide them with the power they need. Matter of fact, you can probably drive an entire surround system of Klipsch speakers with just an AVR - like the Denon you were looking at.

On the other hand, a speaker such as the Thiel 3.7s need more power to get them to reference level. They will very likely require a separate amplifier.

I believe the best way to determine how efficient the speaker is will be to look at it's sensitivity rating. Generally speaking, the higher the sensitivity, the more efficient they are although I do believe speaker impedance plays a role here as well (someone please correct me if my thinking is off here).

So, as you are looking at speakers, take a look at the sensitivity rating - this should give you an idea if you might need to add an amplifier to get the most from the speakers.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

For your size room and the Denon 1612 receiver >> You can get some good
sound, from the HTD Level Two towers and center. > The towers have some
good bass - and the overall sound is neither forward or laid back.
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-two-speakers/Level-TWO-Tower-Speakers
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-two-speakers/Level-TWO-Center-Channel-Speaker

http://www.htd.com/Products/level-two-speakers

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Another option is Pioneer Tower speakers - $200 a pair, price will reflect/change
in the cart > they are good speakers
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3381568&csid=_61

And a Cadence 12 inch sub - the cart will give you an option for free shipping.
The sub will be a nice one
http://www.cadencesound.com/products/CSX12-Mark-II.html


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

A fellow Western Mass poster!

Where are you from, I am from Hadley and I am in the process of building a home with a dedicated home theater.

I feel your pain with regards to all the technical information and choices. It can be overwhelming, but this forum is full of great people and great advice.

This time of year you can find some great deals on refurb and b-stock (slight imperfection) equipment. Keep an eye on Amazon, accesories4less, and other online retailers and you may find the system you want.

One thing I might suggest is to spend the bulk of your money and on your front and center speakers, make them ones you can keep and build around. You can add surrounds from monoprice.com that will work for your current situation, but can be replaced at a later date. They are inexpensive, yet pretty well reviewed. You can also save a good amount of money on your cables and brackets by purchasing through them that might allow you to give the rest of your budget a slight bump.

Hope it goes well!


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

right now I'm over here in East Springfield, Can't wait to get the out of here but that's a whole other story. Monoprice has been in my favorites fro a few years now, from building computers, I have a few things I need from them anyways so when I'm ready I'll keep the speakers in mind.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

lv2pitch said:


> A fellow Western Mass poster!
> 
> Where are you from, I am from Hadley and I am in the process of building a home with a dedicated home theater.
> 
> ...


Seeing as you are also from my neck of the woods, is there anywhere left around here that sells decent speakers that I can go listen to? I can remember back in the day we used to go to Lechmere as they had an awesome audio section. It's been years since I have looked for audio equipment and don't have a clue as to what's out there now.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

At some point in this hobbie you go Math bananas.
Speakers looking at senstivity in db, then resistance in ohms. The higher the senstivity the less amplifier watts you need to get them to a certain loudness. However, the resistance also plays a factor but instead of higher you look at lower. Now you may think that ok this is simple I need to find the speakers with the highest sensitivity and the lowest resistance and bobs you uncle. NOPE, not that easy. The resistance of the speaker affects the amplifer differently then the senstivity. Many amplifers have a limit to how low of a speaker resistance they can handle (most common is 6 or 4 ohms with some High end expensive amps going down to 2 ohms). Looking at your Denon I beleive it likes its speakers at 6 ohms and the Onkyo as low as 4 ohms. Why? well thats more math it has to do with how many amps an amplifier can put on at a given voltage, but then its a "live equation" because the more amps you draw from the ampilfier the voltage will "normally" drop, AND the speaker itself with have a varying resistance depending on what frequencies its playing.

NOW if you consider all these nuances fun and exciting then good for you and happy chart plotting...

IF Not, then forget most of it and Listen.....just listen. I have heard 20K systems that I thought sounded horrid to me but the own Loved them. There are poeple in the forum that love the sound of the Bose 901, other hate it, "too each his own".

Find the AVR that suits your budget then if you can go and listen to different speakers attach to something of the same brand and approximate price level. If you can't do that then sometimes you have to take a leap of faith, choose a few speaker setups that fit your budget, then come to a forum like this one and either look for reviews or put the 3-4 setups on display and ask if anyone has an opinion on them. Then choose.

IF later down the line you have more funds and what to upgrade you will know what you like and dislike about your current set and can again come to the forums with questions. e.g. I like the mid on my current speaker X but I find the highs to sharp and tinny, recommendations?, and I am sure you will get a boat load of responces.

Good luck and have fun


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

I am working with The Music Store in Greenfield. They sell a lot of Yamaha and Paradigm stuff. I ended up buying PSB speakers from DMC Electronics online, but got my receivers from The Music Store. I would recommend them, they are good guys who like to help you out.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm a proponent for good tower or floor standing speakers in most situations but, with a limited budget I think you will get much more bang for your buck with a bookshelf that you can use later for surround duty.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

So if I had the money this week (finished paying off the kids lay-a-way) I would have gotten these: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882981013 How could I go wrong, for $279. Any one got $279 I could borrow?


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

So it's been a few weeks since I posted but I have been doing a lot of research. Seems like I missed most of the better deals out there but that's OK. My next paycheck is not till Thursday so i still have a few days to see if any more deals come up but this is what I am going to purchase if I don't find anything better in the meantime. I missed out on the Denon AVR-1612 so I'll just get the AVR-1613 from AC4L for $249.99, from what I gather the Pioneer SP-FS52 speakers seem to be just right for me so I'll pickup a set from Tigerdirect for $199.98 for the pair and while I'm there I'll get the matching center speaker, a Pioneer SP-C22 for $69.99. I'll also order what I need for speaker wire and such from Monoprice. So for about $550 I should have a pretty decent system to start with. The other thing I was just starting to look at were subwoofers. I know even less about these than everything else but I was doing some research and was wondering if the one I was looking at would do the job for me, the ACOUSTIC ENERGY AEGO AE12-08 T Series 200 Watt Dual 8in Subwoofer Black
fro AC4L, it's only $249.


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

NewEgg and Amazon both have the Polk PSW505 for $189. That is a great subwoofer for that price range. As good as you will get IMHO.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Have you looked at the Onkyo 609


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

lv2pitch said:


> NewEgg and Amazon both have the Polk PSW505 for $189. That is a great subwoofer for that price range. As good as you will get IMHO.


I'll look into this one too.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

JQueen said:


> Have you looked at the Onkyo 609


No I have not looked at this one yet. From what I have been reading on the forums, I should be looking at a really good sub and from what I gather the good ones start at around $500. I know the one that I posted from AC4L is $249 but that is on sale from $749 and it seems to have good reviews. I know that I still have some more research to do as I'm still learning about these things. I don't want to just go throwing money at stuff with out any understanding of what I'm buying but if I get a bunch of recomendations for a particular thing then I feel more comfortable about buying it.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

For a mear $50 more

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

Between the Polk, HSU and the Acoustic Energy, How do I really tell the difference for what I need? Like I said I know I still have to do some learning but what's the short answer on these.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

How do you really tell? The only way to be positive is the setup your pioneers and listen it each one individually. Since that is not possible, here is where you come..... Looking at specs the AE drops 6db at 30hz where as the HSU drops only 2 at 32hz. HSU has long been one of the top direct to consumer internet sub manufactures with many recommendations.

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/...search-stf-1/stf-1-listening-tests-conclusion

btw you can get your Pioneers at Parts express for cheaper

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=250-658


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

For a budget friendly sub >>>
If you want some good SPL and hard hitting tight bass - and also
good with music - then look at the Cadence CSX12 - hard to beat.
http://www.cadencesound.com/products/CSX12-Mark-II.html


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## lv2pitch (May 3, 2012)

I own the HSU VTF2, so I obviously trusted the reviews and comments I received on this forum. The Polk sub is a lot cheaper as it is on sale right now. It is now nearly as high end of a sub, but it is a good one for the money. So, from my eyes it's mostly a financial,decision for you.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

I was doing some more window shopping today and found these Polk R300 on sale at the Egg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290040 for $79 each, I was wondering how these would compare to the Pioneer SP-FS52. My plan is, and can change at any time, is for the Denon AVR-1613, Polk PSW505, Pioneer SP-C22 and whatever floor speaker I decide on.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

tazz said:


> I was doing some more window shopping today and found these Polk R300 on sale at the Egg http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290040 for $79 each, I was wondering how these would compare to the Pioneer SP-FS52. My plan is, and can change at any time, is for the Denon AVR-1613, Polk PSW505, Pioneer SP-C22 and whatever floor speaker I decide on.


I would hands down, choose the Pioneer over the Polk speakers - you will have 
to spend a lot more, to be competitive with the Pioneer - for me the Pioneer is
in a higher league, do not let the Pioneer price fool you. >> I would not mix a 
Pioneer center with Polk speakers, or Polk center with Pioneer speakers.
Also, read this
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-5-1-speaker-system-review.html#axzz2GrS5jgQO


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

zieglj01 said:


> For a budget friendly sub >>>
> If you want some good SPL and hard hitting tight bass - and also
> good with music - then look at the Cadence CSX12 - hard to beat.
> http://www.cadencesound.com/products/CSX12-Mark-II.html


WOW, that's a big sub but I like the reviews on. I don't know if my wife would appreciate it though being as big as it is, she thinks the sound that comes out of the stock Sammy is just fine


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

Well it's done then. Ordered the Pioneer Andrew Jones towers and center along with the Cadence CSX12 and I was able to find the Denon AVR1612 again at AC4L along with a bunch of stuff from Monoprice.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Awesome man Congrats take some pictures when you set it up and enjoy


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

Here's the only down side to this whole situation, just about when most of this stuff I just ordered is due to come in, next Wednesday, I'll be laid out like a slab of meat on the operating table for a lower back operation. Right now I can barely walk due to Lumbar Spinal Stenosis and a big old cyst, all from old back injuries. The good part is that it is a fairly short recovery because they are only doing a trim job and getting rid of the cyst, no spine fusion. I'll see if I can get a buddy over to help when the time comes.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Sorry to hear man..you just focus On recovery and when your back to normal set the system up.


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

Yea, I'm going to have a lot of boxes sitting around.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Congrats on the new toys and I hope the procedure goes well!


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

Well it's been a month since I last posted, back surgery is all done but still limited on what I can do till spring and yes it was a sucess. It's incredible, you really don't know how much pain you are in till it's all gone and it's all gone, I said that had I known I would have done this 10 years ago then one of my friends said that I would not have appreciated as much but all is good now.

On to my setup. Boy was my wife ticked to see all those big boxes show up the day after my surgery, not because of my surgery but because of the money I spent, everything looks (to her) really expensive but we got over it. Now onto the equipment and how everything works so far, I know I'm no expert and I'll most likely need some help in setting this up better than what I have done so far and pretty much that is by the Denon manual and messing with the Cadence settings but I know that I still don't have a handle on it yet. The one thing that I noticed first off was I had to let the speakers break in some and now they do sound quite a bit better than when I first set them up. The one thing that I notice now is that the center speaker really overpowers my two floor ones and I'm having a tough time getting the sub to come in where it should and at a reasonable level, sometimes it's really overpowering and sometimes you can barely notice that it is on. One other thing that stands out about the sub is I can really tell where it is in the room, now you must understand that right now I'm limited on to how much I can lift and move but I think that it is setup pretty good, I have it facing a corner as suggested by Cadence, I did try it facing out but for right now to me it sounds better the other way. I guess I just have to get used to the system and play around with it. The only other thing is I really don't know how much I like my receiver (Denon AVR1612) it seems decent enough but then again it's been a real long time since I have had any decent AV equipment, maybe it's just me but it seems like there is not much there sub settings or I'm not doing something right.


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## hyghwayman (Jan 15, 2008)

Tazz, good to hear the procedure was a success:clap:.

Those AJ pio speakers are really nice and should give you years of enjoyment - I have the 1st series FS51's and simply love the way they sound in my set up. Not sure why the center seems to be overpowering the towers, did you run the receivers auto calibration (Audyssey MultEQ)? Maybe someone else can chime in about your sub issue as I have no experience in that area. 

Also pictures, where's all the pictures cause we likes them a lot


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## tazz (Nov 30, 2012)

I set it up exactly by the Dennon book. Pictures will come soon. I really need to run the setup again now the the speakers have had some time to break in.


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## hyghwayman (Jan 15, 2008)

tazz said:


> I really need to run the setup again now the the speakers have had some time to break in.


+1

I just re-calibrated my system over the weekend after making a few minor changes in speaker positions and it has been almost a year since I last ran the Pio MCACC . 

Still waiting on those picsaddle:


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