# Looking for advice before I close the walls



## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

So I'm almost ready to hang the dry wall in my small theater and I need some help. The room is about 11'x20', but because of stairs, I can really only use 11'x'14'. You can see the floor plan here.

The plan was to go 5.1 with floor speakers up front and wall mounted speakers basically on the side of the second row. I know the sound staging for the rear row is going to kinda suck, but I'm ok with that since I'll be in the recliner up front. I figure the view distance for my seat will be about 7'5".

With all of that said, here are my questions:

1. Should I go with floor speakers, or should I do everything wall mounted?
2. Should I go with a projector or LCD/Plasma? I have gotten use to watching my Sony XBR4s so the picture quality will have to be on par with those TVs.
3. If I go projector, how big should I go with a viewing distance of 7'5"?
4. Is the HDMI switching/upscaling/upconverting that receivers do going to degrade my video performance? I'm looking at getting the Onkyo 805 that everyone raves about.
5. Should I use a power conditioner for my projector/tv?
6. With a room this small, is 7.1 worth it? The side speakers would have to be ceiling mounted because of the large window.

Thanks.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

splitz said:


> 1. Should I go with floor speakers, or should I do everything wall mounted?


Either will be fine, I think. If you go wall mounted ... get a speaker that has the port in the front (a rear ported may not work :huh



> 2. Should I go with a projector or LCD/Plasma? I have gotten use to watching my Sony XBR4s so the picture quality will have to be on par with those TVs.


I read that projectors 720p are good ... 1080p are even better; the question here is: Screen size??? with a projector you'll get a bigger screen than LCD/plasma :yes:



> 3. If I go projector, how big should I go with a viewing distance of 7'5"?


You can use this to calculate http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html



> 4. Is the HDMI switching/upscaling/upconverting that receivers do going to degrade my video performance? I'm looking at getting the Onkyo 805 that everyone raves about.


Some send the video through the receiver for convenience (just one cable) ... I prefer to connect directly from source to projector/TV to avoid any possible problem.



> 5. Should I use a power conditioner for my projector/tv?


I read before that is not necessary ... but is a good idea to use a surge protector.



> 6. With a room this small, is 7.1 worth it? The side speakers would have to be ceiling mounted because of the large window.


My room is 9'x18'x8' and I'm using a 7.1 ... the rear surrounds adds a little extra. If you're planning to get a bluray player in the future, maybe it will be a good idea to have a 7.1 (I read that in the future there will be DVD's with a 7.1 audio not just 5.1 :yes

What are your plans for that window??? ... you need to deal with light and accoustics.

Can you place your seats centered in the room instead of against the wall??? ... I think that sound will be better (at least for the one seated near the wall)


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## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

Thanks for the input.

The project vs LCD debate is largely based on size. I dont want to have a screen too big for my viewing distance. I'll check out that calculator you posted to see what's up.

As far as the window, I think I read a post here about someone using wood, fiberglass, and fabric to cover it up. I'll end up doing something similar.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

1. The advantage of wall mounts is that you save on floor space if its at a premium. Floor standers generally have a better frequency response and thus work better for music and two channel listening if so desired, *Are you going to use a sub with this system?*
2. Bang for buck a projector is far better if your room is dark enough. You can get image sizes far larger than any LCD, DLP or plasma display.
3. No larger than 96" or you will have the same effect as sitting in the first row at your local theater.
4. I have the 805 and the image quality is no different than going straight through to the projector Its very good.
5. depends on where you live some areas have very dirty power others it makes no difference.
6. not really in your case. There are only a handful of movies that actually have a 6 or 7.1 soundtrack.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

splitz said:


> ... As far as the window, I think I read a post here about someone using wood, fiberglass, and fabric to cover it up. I'll end up doing something similar.


Just in case you need it http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-acoustics/9610-blocking-out-window.html


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## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> 1. The advantage of wall mounts is that you save on floor space if its at a premium. Floor standers generally have a better frequency response and thus work better for music and two channel listening if so desired, *Are you going to use a sub with this system?*


Yes, I plan on having a sub. Right now I have the power and rca connections ran to the front of the room with the floor speaker. I did this because the floor speakers I was looking at a while back had a built in sub. Now I'm not so sure if I should go that route.



tonyvdb said:


> 3. No larger than 96" or you will have the same effect as sitting in the first row at your local theater.


How did you calculate this? Using the calculator salvasol posted?



tonyvdb said:


> 6. not really in your case. There are only a handful of movies that actually have a 6 or 7.1 soundtrack.


Hmmm, one vote for 7.1, one vote against. Decisions, decisions.


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## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

salvasol said:


> Just in case you need it http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-acoustics/9610-blocking-out-window.html



Thanks, that's the one.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

splitz said:


> the floor speakers I was looking at a while back had a built in sub. Now I'm not so sure if I should go that route.


Its a matter of choice but unless you spend allot on your speakers a separate sub will sound far better than built in ones as the towers with subs that are not pricey just dont have the best construction. SVS has some of the best subs available for the price.

My screen size recommendation comes from experience. I have a 96" screen and my room is much longer than yours and my front row is 12Ft from the screen and I would never go larger than 106" Your room dimensions would mean that you would be sitting no farther back than 8 to 10ft from the screen.

Im not at all against 7.1 (I have 7.1) but in your room the rear speakers will be tough to place because of the staircase.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Here's my 2 cents. Sorry if I repeat what others have written

*Q. Should I go with floor speakers, or should I do everything wall mounted?*
A. Wall mounts are great for the rears and can be used in the front also, but stands or tower speakers are easier and sound great. 

*Q. Should I go with a projector or LCD/Plasma? I have gotten use to watching my Sony XBR4s so the picture quality will have to be on par with those TVs.*
A. Projectors are nice, but you either need a great screen and high luminen projector to watch it with the lights on. That and not having to worry about bulb life are the benefits of LCD/Plasma displays. A good projector will look just as sharp though. I find a projector lends more to atmosphere and makes it feel more like a movie theater.

*Q. If I go projector, how big should I go with a viewing distance of 7'5"?*
A. Probably in the low 70's for a 16:9 screen and you're going to want a 1080p projector if you're going to be that close. Any bigger and you'll get neck strain sitting in the front row. That is unless you like a really big picture. Some of that goes to your personal preference. The reason why I wrote that you'd need 1080p that close is so that any pixelation from an LCD projector would not be visible. 

*Q. Is the HDMI switching/upscaling/upconverting that receivers do going to degrade my video performance? I'm looking at getting the Onkyo 805 that everyone raves about.*
A. I find that my PS3 and HDDVD player do a better job of upscaling. Of course nothing beats Bluray or HD-DVD for PQ and sound. There should be no signal degradation from the switcher/upconverter aspect.

*Q. Should I use a power conditioner for my projector/tv?*
A. I use a power conditioner for my AV gear, but have yet to get one for my projector. Get one to protect your equipment. Some say they can hear a difference in SQ/PQ but there's no scientific proof to back that up. If you have dirty power or frequent brown/black outs then definitely get one.

*Q. With a room this small, is 7.1 worth it? The side speakers would have to be ceiling mounted because of the large window.*
A. 7.1 might be difficult due to the stairs at the back of your room. For sides if you mounted dipole speakers to either side of the second row it might work (opinions?). For the rears you could ceiling mount or place one on the wall that runs along the stairs and the other on some type of mount coming off parallel the rear stairwell wall. The problem there would be ensuring that they don't get bumped by people's heads (who cares about their head's, it's the speaker you're worried about).


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## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

I am the worlds slowest carpenter. 

So a year later and I'm now REALLY ready to finish the project. I've decided on different furniture, so I can move my front row's viewing distance to about 8.5-9'. According to the calculator using the AE3000 I'm looking at a 92" screen should be perfect. 
Now my newest dilemma...the screen.

I am wrestling between a DIY paint vs. a fabric vs. a motorized drop down.

I like the paint because of the cost, and because there is a 4" knee wall I could do some cool light effect behind the screen. The biggest problem is my track record for DIY…I’ve been working on this room for 2 years now!

I like the idea of a fabric screen because of the audio transparency.

I like the idea of a motorized screen because of the cool macro I could set up to dim the lights, drop the screen, and start the movie.

Any suggestions?


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

Not sure what audio transparency you will get if the fabric screen is right up against the wall

motorized screens have their place but if you do get one ... get a good one ... I got a cheapo 106" 16:9 Richvision for the kids games room and it does not lay as flat as I would like - no budget to change it yet as my theatre is not done 

there are excellent DIY painted screens ... some of the advanced paints can be more costly

one other option is Wilsonart laminate - less than 50 bucks a sheet and no painting ... build a wood frame and wrap in velvet or paint black

Color Codes

Designer White D354-60 -- Close to a StudioTek in color, performance, and gain

Grey 1500-60 A light Grey that will provide a contrast boost and some ambient light performance.

Fashion Grey D381-60 Similar to Behr Silver Screen . It is almost the same darkness, but without the blue push and negative characteristics.

Platinum D315-60 A darker gray that falls between Silver Screen and the Firehawk G2 

Dove Grey D92-60 This is excellent for G2 Fans. The color, gain, and performance are all similar, but at a fraction of the price.










above where the guy is pointing with his finger is the seam between a painted kilz and below is the wilsonart screen


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## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

The fabric screen wouldn't be entirely up against the wall. I have a 4" knee wall that it would mount on, so it would be about 6" off the real wall. I would put the speaker right behind the screen on that ledge.


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

Most people that have AT screen recommend that the speaker not be flush with the screen for various reasons ... have you picked speakers yet ? ... are they front or rear ported ? ... if rear ported then they usually require some space behind them ... if front ported then if you place them too close to the screen the air from the port may move the screen ... you could go inwall LCR speakers which would give you 6" in front of the speakers but shop around for good quality speakers


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## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

I am scanning the forum now for speaker selections...as well as equipment. 

My goal is to have a HT that looks and sounds so crisp that it brings tears to your eyes. The problem is I probably can't afford that level of fidelity.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

splitz said:


> I am scanning the forum now for speaker selections...as well as equipment.
> 
> My goal is to have a HT that looks and sounds so crisp that it brings tears to your eyes. The problem is I probably can't afford that level of fidelity.


If your looking for a really nice set of speakers and dont want to break the bank SVSound is a fantastic place to look. Unfortunately there website is down at the moment and I cant link to the ones I want to show you.
How much do you want to spend on speakers and sub?


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## splitz (Jan 28, 2008)

Ha, that was one of the forums I was cruising and got all excited after reading some of the reviews, so I tried to hit the site and nada.

I'd like to keep the entire system around $6-8k.

Right now I'm more concerned about they type of speaker rather than the actual speaker selection since that will drive the way run my speaker wire. I think I've narrowed it down to:

5.1 surround
floor standing front speakers (although the sub hookups are right next to the front speaker hookups)
Projector w/fixed screen - probably will not do audio-transparent, since I won't have 6" from the screen to the face of the speaker, and I probably won't do an in-wall center...unless it makes that much of a difference


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

In walls are not great in any circumstance so avoid it if possible. SVS is hands down the best for the money particularly the subs they make. They were hit by some sort of bug yesterday as they were already experiencing some problems then and now they have pulled the site down to fix the problem I assume, Hopefully they will be back up soon.
They have some really nice towers for the fronts The MTS 01s 








and the PB13Ultra that I have is an amazing sub







You should be able to get an entire 5.1 speaker package for under $3500


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

If you are in that price range then Axiom is another brand to look at










http://www.axiomaudio.com/epic80_main.html

they also carry a "onwall" center channel that only protrudes 3.5" that is modeled after the center channel in the epic80 system above


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

I will add Emotiva to your list. Awesome performance versus price on all their equipment. I can't say enough good things about my new equipment from them.


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