# Newbie Question



## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

I have sort of a newbie question. :help: Before I buy any equipment I wanted to make sure I was able to hook everything up without too much trouble...

The question is, how would someone hook up a amplifier with only XLR outputs to a CraigSub SS-18.P? From the pictures I have seen, it looks like the passive sub only has speaker inputs but I could be mistaken.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Which make/model amp are you using? I don't have a lot of experience with amps, but I have never seen XLR used for an amplifier output, only as input.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Correction, I guess it has two speakon outputs. I am interested in a Behringer iNUKE NU3000


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

I like speakon connections, secure and quick easy hookup. For the input you can use XLR or 1/4". More than enough power for your sub.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

How would I go from Amp to Sub cable wise? I'd be using a CraigSub passive model.


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

Unfortunately, much of the pertinent details may have been omitted - such as if this is an amplifier configured post cross-over that you seek to directly connect to the sub, or, if you are trying to feed a fullrange output to both a mid-high speaker and to the sub.... so the actual configuration may vary.

But, lacking any details, and since you only want to know how to directly connect an amp with Speakon output connectors to a sub with speaker binding posts, you would use a cable with Speakon to banana connectors, and example of which can be found here.

I hope that is sufficient.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

My apologies, I can explain what I was thinking of doing which may or may not be the correct way to hook everything up. If I will be causing issues with my current plan please advise! 

I was going to hook my Onkyo SR607 AVR using the subwoofer out(s) to a Behringer 1124 then run the BFD outputs to the Behringer iNUKE amp and then run that to the passive CraigSub. I believe the AVR filters out the sub freq for the sub out(s) and therefore would not be a full range input to the amp. Is this correct or no? Again, I apologize for leaving out the most important details.


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

The Speakon to banana interconnect is sufficient if simply going from amp out to sub in.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Correct me if I am wrong but I didn't think it was adviceable to go from the unbalanced output of the sub out on the AVR and then going from the EQ to the Amp via balanced, possible ground lopp problems.

Make sure to set the crossover freq on the AVR only and turn off the one in the 3000

The speakon to banana as discribed by SAC is also my opinion.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Interesting... Is there a better way to hook everything up besides setting the crossover on the AVR? I have yet to install anything so I can completely change my plans in needed. Thank you for your input Andre!


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Well if you have your heart set or have already bought the pro gear then this is the gizmo you need *IF* you find noice is affecting your sound quality, you might get lucky...who knows.

http://www.long-mcquade.com/product..._-_Unbalanced-to-Balanced_Level_Converter.htm

There is a Micky Mouse way to fake a balanced RCA to XLR cable but that would be DIY on your part, with no guarntees it will make the sound better or worse.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

So what is the right way to set everything up? Use a sub amp like a dayton SA1000 and use the EQ in the AVR?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

That is one way, or you can find a power sub you enjoy. I have a 14x17 room and use the SV Sound PC-12 NSD cylinder type sub. I found it not picky about placment and good thump. Granted its not as earth shattering as and 18 with 3000watts but it does what its supposed too do.

Or have you already bought the Craig.


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

This is all very confusing!

You have several choices, depending in part on the AVR outputs.

If it has a .1 LFE output, the LF signal has already effectively been through a low pass filter (aka crossover) and it is then routed to either an internal amp, a powered sub, or an external amp and then to a passive sub..

If you are talking a preamplified full-range output signal, then you would run it through a crossover and pass the mids and highs to their respective amplifier and then to the drivers;, and the LF to an amp and then to the sub.

A variation that exists such that a sub may be powered by the individual channel outputs which may each utilize a powered sub with an active crossover, whereby the full range output of each channel is run to the active crossover incorporated in the sub, which then passes the LF signal to the integrated sub amp, and the mids and highs are looped out of the sub back to the mid-high amp(s) and then to the appropriate drivers.

...Of course, one would be very wise to use active crossovers and to also align the various signals accordingly in the process.

(But if the sub is passive, there is NO feeding the sub and then taking any output from the sub, as ALL processing would be done in separate units...)

:rubeyes:


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Now you have confused me.

I took it that Brad currently has the Onkyo AVR and none of the sub componentry, in which case the "easiest" way is to use a simple RCA cable from the "Sub out" LFE connector of the AVR to a powered sub.


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

From the original question:



brad.wilson1011 said:


> *The question is, how would someone hook up a amplifier with only XLR outputs to a CraigSub SS-18.P? {Later qualified to be Neutrik Speakon connectors}* From the pictures I have seen, it looks like the passive sub only has speaker inputs but I could be mistaken.


Who knows why others are exploring the plethora of potential combinations that are possible if the scenario was defined thus. But a well defined question would certainly help! Although it might take some of he fun out of guessing!

As defined the interconnect is a Speakon to banana plug interconnect.

The possibility was simply raised that many other combinations are possible (and common), and that if they were applicable, they would potentially impact the appropriate answer.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

And that connection is correct, however, I back tracked to the AVR and foresaw the problem of mixing the unbalanced output of the AVR to the balanced input of the EQ. The subject of alternative to the balanced equipment commenced after that.


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

Then *if* you need input gain adjustment in an un balanced to balanced connection, use a Rolls MB15 ProMatch or an ART Cleanbox. 
And take advantage of the balanced topology after that.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I did mention the cleanbox in my link to the LM website, however, he asked if there was a better way and IMHO the cost of all that equipment and cabling would not equate to a sonic improvement unless the distances between components were large. And so, he came back with the dayton sub amp to replace both pieces of Behringer equipment and I countered with perhaps looking at a powered sub if he hadn't already purchased the craig.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Holy cow...I didn't mean to make things so confusing... 

My original question stemmed from my desire to take my current MFW-15 and replace it with the CraigSub setup. I had read that some people were purchasing two passive subs that are on clearance at the moment and using a Behringer iNuke amp to power them. This all sounded good and fun until I took a look at the back of the iNuke and found the speakon input/output setup (originally thought to be XLR... my bad, didnt look at the picture before I posted). I was confused as to how I would connect the two components together which was perfectly answered by the speakon -> banana plug cable. After this, the question popped up that my transition between AVR subwoofer out, to BFD, to iNuke may cause issues with noise. Not wanting to buy all this gear and then have a horrible sound I asked what Andre thought would be a good idea. I assumed when I asked that question that there must be a more appropriate way to hook up two passive subwoofers, a 2 channel amp, a BFD and a AVR. I appreciate all of the input and I hope that there may still be an answer out there for the proper way to connect a AVR subwoofer out to a BFD to a Amp to a passive sub! Please advise :bigsmile::innocent:


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

To hook the AVR to the BFD properly you will need unit such as the ART cleanbox which I linked in a previous reply.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

SAC, as I was typing my prior response you listed the Rolls MB15 ProMatch or an ART Cleanbox as possible units that I could use to help my unbalanced to balanced setup. Do you think that these will be worth the money or should I be ok with the way I currently am looking to connect everything?


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Gotcha, thanks andre!


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

But, remember what I said previously. Try your setup as you have it without the ART, IF you do get noise adding that component should fix the problem.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Right, thank you again. I apologize for all of the confusion.


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

brad.wilson1011 said:


> I hope that there may still be an answer out there for the proper way to connect a AVR subwoofer out to a BFD to a Amp to a passive sub! Please advise :bigsmile::innocent:


Balanced to unbalanced is an easy and trivial issue.

As far as which is the "proper way"?...

Just about every option has been presented!!! As the "proper way" is dependent upon what you have or are willing to buy, you have to figure out what you have or what you are willing to buy and PICK ONE topology.

As far as the Rolls or ART units, it all depends upon the input sensitivity of the amp! Some support the lower level unbalanced levels just fine, some need additional gain. Try it and see! If it does not need it, do without and avoid the additional gain stage. If the gain is too low, use the intermediate gain stage.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Understood. Thanks.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

The BFD has a gain level selector, set it for -10 and gain should not be a problem. If you have excess noise from mixing balanced/unbalanced connections get the ART and set BFD input to +4. Use XLR from BFD to iNuke. This connector and a RCA sub cable to connect Onkyo to BFD:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10429&cs_id=1042906&p_id=7150&seq=1&format=2


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Still think that cable to adapter to gizmo to cable to amp to sub is more trouble then its worth but thats just me...lddude:


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Thank you for the info phreak. I think I will try that configuration and see how it works! Have you had any personal experience with the BFD?


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

I haven't used a BFD myself, but I have used parabolic filters on pro audio equipment and know that they can be quite effective. The BFD has 24 filters with adequate boost and a ridiculous among of cut, making it a very impressive tool. Check out this site for a little more info, some of the links also contain a ton great info. 

http://bfdguide.ws/


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I have not checked prices on anything, but the Dayton SA1000 is the recomended amplifier so if it is close in price why not go with it.
If you want to use the pro EQ you may still need an adapter cable though.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Phreak, great info. Ill definitely start reading through this so ill be ready when the time comes to set everything up!

Chashint, The Dayton is around $425 where the Behringer is about 3x the power for $300. If the dayton had a huge advantage over the behringer in sound quality or capability I would see the $125 as worth it but it doesn't seem to be playing out that way. Time to go buy myself a NUKE:devil:


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

That's cool.
30% more $$ for 1/3 the power does seem out of whack.
I was following another thread where a discussion about por amps was going on and several people commented about pro amps having loud fans.
I don't know if the amp you are looking at has a fan ot not, but it may be a factor if it does.


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## brad.wilson1011 (Sep 2, 2011)

Thats a good point. I didnt even consider the fan noise... All of my components are going in a closet on a server rack that I will be building just outside my theater room. I am hoping that will keep the fan noise in check, if not I will have to double the drywall on a few of the walls and maybe add some sound proofing. Thanks for bringing that up though, I will add some soundproofing material to my budget.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Closet installations with in-wall wiring are the cleanest way to go for sure.
Sometimes I would like to have all the gear hidden and sometimes I like haing it on display.
To the fan noise issue though, if it is going in a closet I don't think you will ever hear any fan noise.


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