# Project "C8" - building Norways smallest(?) home cinema



## roffe

Status so far - *Finished!*:


----------



## roffe

*In the beginning*

*Project "C8" has started!*

I may be Norways slowest home theater builder, at least when you include the fact that I have been planning this particular room since 2003. I'll not dwell on the reasons for this taking me so long. But you may say I have had enough time to make plans.

I have named the project "C8". This may mean a lot of things, but for me it stands for "Cinema 8". The number 8 has many meanings, it is a chinese symbol for happiness, the floor area of the room is between 8 and 9 square meters, there are 8 channels in a 7.1 system...
There may be other reasons, but by now you may be saying: "8 square meters!???". And, yes, it will be about that size when finished.

This is the reason I think it will be Norways smallest home cinema. There may be some smaller, but i doubt they are dedicated HT rooms, and I doubt they can seat a whole family.

Here are some early planning sketches:










The first sketch shows something about how I imagine the front speaker setup. It is rather old, andsome changes may be made.

Here is another sketch. The speakers will not be like this, but the seating arrangements are close to what I'll be making:










I am not going to spoil the excitement by telling every detail, but here are some points to keep the expectations to a realistic level:

 There is no room-in-room solution. That would steal too much floor space.
 The bass acoustics will not be perfect. This must be solved using electronic room correction.
 It will not be the most beautiful home theater in the world. The finish will be limited of my limited carpentry skills and the fact that the room will be mostly dark.
 It will not be an all black bat cave.
 There will be compromises.
 There will be DIY-solutions
 A lot of stuff will be done to save and utilise space.

The project has started with cleaning up the room. Here is the unpromising start:





































After cleaning and some deconstruction:




























I guess a lot of my spare time will be spent on this project. I don't know when I'll finish, that's part of the excitement.


----------



## frodo1

:bigsmile:This will be an exciting thread to follow, im having planns for a simullar sort of project, although my floorspace will be a bit bigger.
Wll you be using a big screen tv?, or a projector and a screen?
Have you been thinking about the accoustics?, becouse of the planns that i have, and the size of the room i descided to buy a 5.1 system instead of a 7.1 system and skip the troubles of to much room reflections and phase problems.
(but mayby my way of thinking is incorrect, correct me if 'm wrong)

Snds i live in Sweden, we can say that we are neighbours so.........

Lycka tll!!:wave:


----------



## roffe

frodo1 said:


> :bigsmile:This will be an exciting thread to follow, im having planns for a simullar sort of project, although my floorspace will be a bit bigger.
> Wll you be using a big screen tv?, or a projector and a screen?
> Have you been thinking about the accoustics?, becouse of the planns that i have, and the size of the room i descided to buy a 5.1 system instead of a 7.1 system and skip the troubles of to much room reflections and phase problems.
> (but mayby my way of thinking is incorrect, correct me if 'm wrong)
> 
> Snds i live in Sweden, we can say that we are neighbours so.........
> 
> Lycka tll!!:wave:


Thanx. 

This HT will definitely use a projector and screen. The screen will be a based on a professional screen material, but the frame and masking will be custom built by me for this room.

I have thought a lot about acoustics, and decided that I will have a 7.1 system. The reason is that I have visited small HTs with 5.1 loudspeakers, and the surround speakers usually get so close to your head that the position of the speaker is clearly revealed, and the space between them not properly filled with the illusion of seamless surround. This works better with 7.1, IMHO.

The biggest challenges is in the bass, but I have some plans there, too... ;-)


----------



## bpape

Looks like fun. The one suggestion I would have would be to not do 2 center channels. You'll cause all kinds of cancellation issues.

Bryan


----------



## roffe

There is no problem with two center speakers as long as they perfectly in phase. 

The problem with the sound coming from below the picture is a larger problem, IMHO. I have also experienced HTs with two center speakers which does the job as good as a center placed behind a sound transparent screen.


----------



## bpape

Your call. There are most definitely cancellations with 2 center channels. Center channels are usually specifically designed to have limited horizontal but good vertical dispersion. When you use 2 of them, you're essentially limiting their vertical dispersion by allowing them to cancel in the center.

If you ever measure 1 vs 2 top and bottom, you'll see it very clearly.

Bryan


----------



## roffe

Yes, the vertical dispersion will be limited. No, there is no cancellation when they are time aligned perfectly in sweet spot, in pretty much the same way as stereo speakers do not have good horisontal dispersion if they are playing pure mono, which is essentially the same as when two center speakers play the same center channel.


----------



## roffe

*Color palette for C8*

Hi again. I have played around with colors, and have arrived at a palette for interior colors. I'm not sure if reality will match the plans exactly, but these are the approximate colors of C8:










The use of the colors are (from left to right):

 projection screen
 grey on door, side walls and back wall
 ceiling
 front wall and furniture
 floor
I think these colors makes this a "quiet" theme. Please note that nothing is said yet on textures... Time will show.


----------



## roffe

Back again with a status update. This time I am discovering big holes in my english vocabulary, because I don't know what the english word for "spikerslag" is. I'll let the pictures tell the story so far, but know that making holes in concrete has been a time consuming job:



















The last wall is not that simple. Here, there is about 80 cm between the "spikerslag", while the standard is 60cm:










There is still some way to go...


----------



## Space

Would "spikerslag" have anything to do with the nailing or fastening into the concrete being difficult?


----------



## tenzip

I'm guessing that "spikerslag" refers to either the vertical or horizontal studs shown in the last picture above, but that's just a guess.


----------



## roffe

"Spikerslag" refers to the vertical wood boards which enables me to fasten stuff to the wall with either nails or ordinary wood screws. In Norway, the standard for this is a center to center measure of 60cm, also referred to as a CC60-standard.


----------



## tenzip

Then spikerslag = stud in English. The standards for spacing vary, I've seen 16" and 24". (40 and 60cm, near enough.)

Can you put in new spikerslag, and then remove the old? Why exactly is it causing you a problem?


----------



## Space

or furring strip  The time consuming part is most likely from driving cut nails (fluted or hard nails, etc.) into the solid concrete with a small mall. It is tedious and often aggravates my wrists.


----------



## roffe

I haven't said anything about problems, have I? That something takes time doesn't mean it is a problem. ;-)

The last wall will not be torn down because it is an "anchoring point" (probably not the correct phrase to describe it) for the stairs leading down into the basement on the other side of the wall. Keeping a standard of CC60 all around the room makes symmetry in both construction and esthetics. Keeping the wall is one of the compromises I have chosen to make.


----------



## tenzip

Well, you said it "was not that simple" with the non-standard spacing, so I assumed it was causing you some difficulty. If not, so much the better. Carry on!


----------



## roffe

*First layer of paint in the ceiling and...*

Back with new pictures again. Not many structural changes this time, even if the new doorframe represents a bit of work. I have painted the "spikerslag" and two walls. Actually I am uncertain myself why I painted the entire wall, but I think I wanted to check out the visual impression of a complete dark gray wall against the color of the ceiling. But compared to what I have planned, this is unnecessary use of time and paint. I am going to use this color on the door and on the woodwork around it, in corners and towards the floor. I have bought dark gray fabric for the walls, but that is a bit lighter than this color.



















I need one or two more layers of paint in the ceiling. It will be a bit exciting to see how it turns out, my first impression is that the color is a bit too much towards red.

The lamp is temporary moved to the wall while painting the ceiling. What do you think I am preparing in the lower part of this wall? You'll get the answer later. ;-)










And, no, I am not talking about the door frame... ;-)


----------



## roffe

*Sub floor started*

Just got started on the floor. Didn't get the time to finish everything at once, but laying this is work that progresses pretty fast. You may notice that the walls and floor aren't perfectly rectangular, but I guess this won't be noticable in the finished room.










This picture is from another angle. It may be clearer what I am preparing for in the wooden wall now. ;-)


----------



## roffe

*Sub floor done. Ceiling painted, second layer.*

Now the sub floor is done. Next is floor heating. Waiting for electrician. 










The ceiling is painted with a second layer of paint. The shine is because the photo was taken when it was newly painted. It will be less shiny.


----------



## Space

What are your plans with the walls? Are you doing anything to the hard ceiling to absorb some? Does that room ring right now or is that just me ?


----------



## roffe

Space said:


> What are your plans with the walls? Are you doing anything to the hard ceiling to absorb some? Does that room ring right now or is that just me ?


The ceiling will not be damped. This is one compromise I had to make to save space in this room. The floor will probably get a carpet on top of the projected laminate to remove most of the echo you get when clapping in such a room. Furniture will also cover a decent percentage of the floor space, so it will not be as bad as it is in this picture.

When it comes to walls, they will be damped. Not extremely heavily padded, but a decent damping of acoustic plates of stone wool based mineral fibres, covered with grey stage molton will be on all concrete walls. The wooden wall will get some more damping material.

When the room has no damping and only hard surfaces, of course it is ringing. :thumb:


----------



## atledreier

I'll be following this thread!

The non-standard spacing of the one wall can only be a good thing, as the cavities in that wall will have a different resonant frequency from the others. 

How wide can you make the picture in such a short room?


----------



## roffe

atledreier said:


> I'll be following this thread!
> 
> The non-standard spacing of the one wall can only be a good thing, as the cavities in that wall will have a different resonant frequency from the others.
> 
> How wide can you make the picture in such a short room?


Yes, I have thought about that, and even if I am a fan of symmetry, I recognise the acoustic benefits of not having the same acoustic flaws everywhere...

The plan is having a screen width of about 170-180cm (it will probably be a DIY 180cm wide screen with aspect 1.85:1), so 16:9 will be 170cm, while the blu-ray movies that usually are around 2.40:1 get a slightly wider picture at 180cm. This is a pretty close viewing distance, but farther away than 1:1, and I like the feeling when the picture pretty much fills up a lot of my field of vision. Masking will probably be added last, and is planned to be customised to both 16:9 and 2.40/2.35:1.


----------



## roffe

*Making wooden wall more rigid and tight*

Here we go, another attempt at norwenglish building descriptions. :innocent:

The old storage room walls haven't exactly been the most rigid or airtight of walls. So here we go with one of the compromises I have pondered most before deciding. I could not build a room-in-room solution and double plaster for the full sound isolation effect, deciding it would steal too much of the room width.

But even so I have tried to stiffen and sealing the wall better. I have glued pieces of plaster board between the old studs. In retrospect the sealing is a bit tragicomic. Wanting to try building foam resulted in what is seen below. The building foam expanded to twice the size at once, which I expected. Then, during the fixation process expanded to twice the size once more over some minutes. It is a LOT of stiff foam, and I'll have to cut away a lot.










After this experience, and because some of the wall have to wait for the electrician, I chose to build some boxes instead. These will be needed later in the project.


----------



## atledreier

*Re: Making wooden wall more rigid and tight*

What are the boxes for? :hsd:


----------



## roffe

*Re: Making wooden wall more rigid and tight*



atledreier said:


> What are the boxes for? :hsd:


Let's just say that I will build a total of eight DIY speaker boxes for this room. :bigsmile:


----------



## atledreier

*Re: Making wooden wall more rigid and tight*

Weee!! :yay2::yay::joke:


----------



## roffe

*Re: Making wooden wall more rigid and tight*



atledreier said:


> Weee!! :yay2::yay::joke:


Yes, I really believe I will be able to fill this enormous space with sound. :T


----------



## Space

*Re: Making wooden wall more rigid and tight*



roffe said:


> The building foam expanded to twice the size at once, which I expected. Then, during the fixation process expanded to twice the size once more over some minutes. It is a LOT of stiff foam...


After you cut this foam out, it may benefit you to caulk the same areas with an acoustic caulk. In future areas, I would not recommend this expanding caulk. It has no density and is basically transparent to sound, except maybe high frequencies which it will reflect.

Build for the low frequencies and the mids and highs will be taken care of in that process.


----------



## roffe

*Re: Making wooden wall more rigid and tight*



Space said:


> After you cut this foam out, it may benefit you to caulk the same areas with an acoustic caulk. In future areas, I would not recommend this expanding caulk. It has no density and is basically transparent to sound, except maybe high frequencies which it will reflect.
> 
> Build for the low frequencies and the mids and highs will be taken care of in that process.


That is great advice. However, the REALLY low frequencies is hard to isolate without a room-in-room solution. Even double plaster boards with high viscosity glue between layers do not perform very well when it comes to the really low frequencies (which are abundant in the LFE channel of any movie surround track).


----------



## roffe

Just got a message that my new Logitech Squeezebox Classic #2 has been sent to me. It will provide music for the home cinema. :T


----------



## roffe

*Electrician has been here*

I like to do most things myself, but when it comes to complicated electrical work, I have to use professionals. But even if they are professionals, work is progressing slower than expected. Plastic tubes with power cables have been placed in the wooden wall.










Note that I have started to make my own "spikerslag" (studs?) with a CC60 spacing by installing the same 98mm wide planks as on the concrete walls.

Here is another picture from a slightly different angle:


----------



## roffe

*Floor heating and floor laid*

The electrician has laid down the floor heating mats. Unfortunately, the thermostat has not been installed yet, so it is not active in this picture.










Since I couldn't do anything else in the room before the floor, I got the floor done. It actually went pretty fast.










Another picture of the floor, showing the surface a bit better. For those remembering the room palette, the basic floor color is not too far off.


----------



## Prof.

Nice looking timber floor..
Keep the pics coming..


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> Nice looking timber floor..
> Keep the pics coming..


I have to admit that this is not real timber, it is a laminate floor. But I like the looks. :T Acoustically, I may be forced to hide it under a thin carpet, but I have not decided on that yet. 

Nice to know that there are people out there following the thread. I will keep the pics coming, and even try to write about the building process in my somewhat limited building vocabulary. :bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

About the norwegian word "spikerslag", it seems that you're right about "stud" being the proper translation. Consulted www.merriam-webster.com on this, and it says:



> stud (noun) - one of the smaller uprights in the framing of the walls of a building to which sheathing, paneling, or laths are fastened


But I am still not quite sure, since my "spikerslag" is not actually carrying the wall itself, only the paneling...


----------



## Prof.

roffe said:


> Acoustically, I may be forced to hide it under a thin carpet, but I have not decided on that yet.


I would suggest that's a good idea..or perhaps just a thick throw rug between the speakers and the seating..
That would help to reduce any reflections from the fronts, and also help to deaden the room..


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> I would suggest that's a good idea..or perhaps just a thick throw rug between the speakers and the seating..
> That would help to reduce any reflections from the fronts, and also help to deaden the room..


Usually it is a good idea, but since I am damping all walls, I'll decide on this after I have had a chance to listen to the acoustics without a carpet. I don't want a totally dead room either. That's just boring.


----------



## bpape

Boring - agreed if it's too dead. However, floor reflections can be particularly distracting and harsh. If it came to that and potentially reducing the wall damping, I'd do that.

Just my 2 cents.

Bryan


----------



## roffe

bpape said:


> Boring - agreed if it's too dead. However, floor reflections can be particularly distracting and harsh. If it came to that and potentially reducing the wall damping, I'd do that.
> 
> Just my 2 cents.
> 
> Bryan


Time will tell. But I have ordered some carpet samples already, so I guess there will be carpets, not only for sound, but also because it is better to walk on.


----------



## roffe

*Some work on the wooden wall*

When the floor is done, I can work on the wooden wall again. Here all the studs are ready with a CC60 spacing as far as it is possible.










Most of the cutting and painting of materials happens in the garage. By painting before I fasten the materials I don't have to do all that boring masking before painting.


----------



## roffe

The christmas holiday is coming up and to preserve sanity I have to put the building process on hold for some days. We have more than enough to prepare, since we're arranging the christmas eve dinner. In Norway, christmas eve is THE big evening, both with good, traditional food and the opening of the gifts. 

I hope to continue between christmas and new years eve.


----------



## atledreier

Dude! We invented x-mas to keep the wives busy so we could pursue our DIY hobbies! Don't spoil her, man!


----------



## roffe

atledreier said:


> Dude! We invented x-mas to keep the wives busy so we could pursue our DIY hobbies! Don't spoil her, man!


Well, I guess the womens liberation movement has put several bullets into that effort. It is definitely expected that I contribute. 
But I still try to fit in a late work hour in the basement now and then. Nothing worth taking pictures of so far, though.


----------



## roffe

*Frames for platform/riser*

Happy new year, folks!  I have had a comfortable christmas holiday and posted no new pictures. But here I go again.

In the rear of the room I'll have a riser/platform for the second seating row. The wood parts for this could be seen in my previous picture post, and after some work, mainly with a battery drill, five well dimensioned frames are ready.










Above you may observe that I have painted the studs of the wooden wall the same way as on the other walls. Below is a picture from a slightly different angle. I have now painted the ventilation covers. You may also observe the beginning of what will become a cable channel at floor level on the front wall.


----------



## Prof.

It's coming along nicely..
How high is that riser.?


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> It's coming along nicely..
> How high is that riser.?


The frames are about 27cm high, and adding flooring I guess it will be a total of about 30cm.


----------



## akakillroy

LOL because of the room size it looks HUGE! So just shy of 12" then.


----------



## roffe

carls64 said:


> LOL because of the room size it looks HUGE! So just shy of 12" then.


Yes, photographing in such a small space makes things seem out of proportions at times. A bit less than 12" is about right.


----------



## roffe

*Channels under the ceiling for cables, downlight etc.*

Some progress since the last update. Along the sides of the ceiling I have started to build channels for all cables, downlights and in-ceiling speakers. 
To still be able to access the basement window, the channel is more shallow in this area, and will only allow cabling, no downlights nor speakers.










These rectangular channels will be finished with sides at the end of the project, but only after downlights and cabling has been done. The sides will be fastened with screws, so they can be easily removed if the need for cable rearrangement do occur (and it will).


----------



## Space

Little by little, bit by bit, you are making this into a nice looking room.

Keep up the good work and good luck in the New Year,


Brien


----------



## roffe

Space said:


> Little by little, bit by bit, you are making this into a nice looking room.
> 
> Keep up the good work and good luck in the New Year,
> Brien


Thank you, Brien, for the thumbs up.

I have been planning this for quite some time, and even if the planning process has been slow going, I guess it will pay off in the end. I am confident of a positive result, at least according to my own preferences.

Work have been down during christmas, but I have already startet it up again. No reason to wait now, is it? :bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

*Platform (riser), skirtings and channel for cables in front*

Since the last status update, the platform is now a reality, complete with flooring. I have added skirtings (is that the correct word?) along all walls, andin front of the room a "cable channel" for all sorts of cabling. By the way, the door is on its hinges, too. I guess this has been painted in between everything else. :whistling:










In the picture below the platform/riser has been built. As you can see, there are skirtings along the floor for this too, but they lack some paint at the end. The platform feels solid to walk on. The height between floor and ceiling here is at a bare minimum of 187cm, which means I can stand upright, feeling my hair slightly touch the ceiling.

I had to to the skirtings twice, since I noticed audible creaking noises when I walked on the platform. There are now rubber strips under each skirting board to avoid that noise. Even if the platform/riser has a solid base, it is not completely stiff, making the floor move slightly against the skirtings. With the rubber strips in place, this is completely silent.

You can also see the holes for the surround speakers (an in-wall solution) in the channel along the ceiling.










In this picture, the cable channel in front of the room is more detailed. It is slightly taller than the other skirtings. I guess this will not matter when the walls are completed. The front wall will differ from the other walls anyway, being black while the other walls will be grey.










So here everything is ready for another visit from the electricians and start to finish the walls.


----------



## Space

That is a nice looking floor!

What you are calling skirtings, in English, I would call either a joist or truss(because of the design). But, yea, wood rubbing against wood will squeak  So good idea to place something inbetween the two members.

What does that platform sound like when you step on it? Kind of hollow? I do not know if you have considered it or no, but some damping material might help here. Like filling it with insulation?

But theater construction is different then typical building so this may be an area that you want to be live.

No matter, it's a good looking place, no doubt.


Brien


----------



## roffe

Filling the space underneath the platform completely with damping material is not an option. The reason is that the heat from the floor needs somewhere to go. But I may build damping "boxes" with legs allowing air to flow underneath, while damping most of the space. This is one of the possibilities for tweaking room acoustics if I am not satisfied when the room is "done" (will it ever be?).

But actually, there are not much hollowness to the sound when you walk on the platform. It feels and sounds pretty solid.


----------



## Prof.

*Re: Platform (riser), skirtings and channel for cables in front*



roffe said:


> Since the last status update, the platform is now a reality, complete with flooring. I have added skirtings (is that the correct word?)


Yes, they're called skirting boards in my Country, but I believe they call them base boards in the US..
If you can't fill the riser with insulation, would you be able to just line underneath the riser floor and around the sides of each compartment?
Otherwise when you put the front panel on, it's going to become an empty box..and even though it sounds solid now, it will be a resonating chamber without any insulation..


----------



## Space

Base board, right, ok!

I was in the wrong part of the room when he mentioned squeaking and just naturally thought it was the floor joists.

I'll try to read more and type less 

The op did mention a heated floor. This presents a unique situation. I wouldn't want to cover the front of the platform with anything solid that would make the platform a heat trap.


OK, now I'm going to read more and type less


----------



## roffe

*Re: Platform (riser), skirtings and channel for cables in front*



Prof. said:


> Yes, they're called skirting boards in my Country, but I believe they call them base boards in the US..
> If you can't fill the riser with insulation, would you be able to just line underneath the riser floor and around the sides of each compartment?
> Otherwise when you put the front panel on, it's going to become an empty box..and even though it sounds solid now, it will be a resonating chamber without any insulation..


I will not put a solid front on the riser, just some kind of pretty sound transparent textile, I guess. 

I guess it is time to reveal one space-saving feature. I will put DIY subwoofers based on multiple 8-inch elements under the platform. These will have their own boxes. :bigsmile:


----------



## Prof.

*Re: Platform (riser), skirtings and channel for cables in front*



roffe said:


> I will not put a solid front on the riser, just some kind of pretty sound transparent textile, I guess.
> 
> I guess it is time to reveal one space-saving feature. I will put DIY subwoofers based on multiple 8-inch elements under the platform. These will have their own boxes. :bigsmile:


Aha!!..Now I see the reason for making the riser the way you did it..:cunning:
Interesting idea!..You get sub sounds and a bass shaker at the same time..


----------



## roffe

*Re: Platform (riser), skirtings and channel for cables in front*



Prof. said:


> Interesting idea!..You get sub sounds and a bass shaker at the same time..


Uhmm... The bass shaker part is not my intention. But I do wonder what the bass will be like eventually in this room.


----------



## roffe

*Electrician has been around for the 3rd time*

Antother status post after the electricians have been around for the third time. Still no lights, but a lot of new cables, tubes, light switches, power sockets etc. 










A closer look at the switches by the door. It's a good thing that the floor heating has got thermostat control. Now it can be on all the time. It is also a dimmer for the downlights, two switches for the two planned downlight zones that are planned.










Since I now have power sockets, I have set up a small shelf fom IKEA, an old CD player (Denon DCD-1500mkII) and a couple of speakers (Audioengine 2) to get music while I work. 










Here you can see the power sockets better. There are also two double sockets behind the Ikea shelf.










A bit closer view of the socket. Observe that the cable channel is a bit higher than the skirting/base boards to allow room for the boxes behind the sockets. 










The pictures in this posting has been taken with a work lamp as the light source. This has meant strange shadows and a rather yellow color to it. I'll try to improve on this in later posts.


----------



## roffe

*After fourth (and last?) visit from the electrician*

At last the downlights are in place. This picture shows one of the two lighting zones. I actually think this can be pretty nice when it's done. :T










The switches are now framed. You may also notice the rough style of the wood I have used. With my carpentry skills and given the general roughness of the basement, this is OK by me.










A new fuse box has been placed elsewhere in the basement, directly below the main fuse box. Two 16A/230V fuses is for the home cinema, for floor heating and electronics separately.


----------



## alex23

hy
i wish i could have a room like yours  to set a small HT, it looks really nice even though it's a small room, the downlight's look very nice too. good job


----------



## roffe

alex23 said:


> hy
> i wish i could have a room like yours  to set a small HT, it looks really nice even though it's a small room, the downlight's look very nice too. good job


Thanx. It takes some effort, but if you don't need to install extra power circuits and heating, redecoration to a home cinema doesn't have to be very expensive. The biggest problem with such å small room is that it is difficult to isolate sound from the HT to the rest of the building. Here I have just tried to do what I can, but even with the tiny setup above, sound leakage is evident, mostly in the bass area.


----------



## Prof.

*Re: Electrician has been around for the 3rd time*



roffe said:


> A closer look at the switches by the door. It's a good thing that the floor heating has got thermostat control. Now it can be on all the time. It is also a dimmer for the downlights, two switches for the two planned downlight zones that are planned.


It's all coming together nicely..and the downlights look good..:T

Is that dimmer control a manual device?..From the pic. it looks like it has a knob..
I used to have a manual dimmer for the lights, but it was not very professional to have to turn the lights down by hand..so I put in a simple automated system...Best thing I ever did!!:bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

*Re: Electrician has been around for the 3rd time*



Prof. said:


> It's all coming together nicely..and the downlights look good..:T


Thanx. :bigsmile: (* now, why doesn't this forum have any normal smilies? *) 



Prof. said:


> Is that dimmer control a manual device?..From the pic. it looks like it has a knob..
> I used to have a manual dimmer for the lights, but it was not very professional to have to turn the lights down by hand..so I put in a simple automated system...Best thing I ever did!!:bigsmile:


Yup, it's manual, and no, it will not be automated yet, since these knobs are less than one step from the sweet spot. I am also on a budget (sort of), so such luxuries have been put on hold.


----------



## roffe

*Covering of the wall begins*

[*This time I have tried to use the Google Translator to write this. The text is mostly unchanged, except where it is almost impossible to understand the original meaning or where the translator found no english word. Enjoy. ;-) NB: If anything is still unclear, don't hesitate to ask about the true meaning. :whistling: *]

After the electician was done for this time it was ready to begin to dress the walls. 

Here you can see the first three acoustics plates, which consists of a wooden frame around Rockwool acoustics plates faced with gray scenemolton. It is not so nice with the album in front of the window, maybe, but I would like to have easy opportunity to get to the window, and then it is good to get away with removing one of the discs. Otherwise, this is with these discs extremely time-consuming work. 










I thought each disc would take about an hour, but it turns out that each disc takes over two (!) Hours for my part. For each plate I measure up to find the dimensions, sheathing materials, turning them into frames, routers rounding the edges, cut to the acoustics discs common in the frame and dress them with scenemolton before they hung on the wall. When the room has about 20 discs, so this will take a while ... 

Moreover, sees two of the four downlighters constitutes a separate light zone behind in space. Nice if you want a little light on while watching the film, too.


----------



## Prof.

*Re: Covering of the wall begins*



roffe said:


> [*
> I thought each disc would take about an hour, but it turns out that each disc takes over two (!) Hours for my part. For each plate I measure up to find the dimensions, sheathing materials, turning them into frames, routers rounding the edges, cut to the acoustics discs common in the frame and dress them with scenemolton before they hung on the wall. When the room has about 20 discs, so this will take a while ...*


*
That seems an awful lot of work..:sweat:
I've not heard the term or product..scenemolton..Please elaborate..*


----------



## frodo1

I think he is trying to tell hus that he wraps the accoustic pannels in GOM, speakercloth if you like.
Keep up the good work neighbour, it's becoming verry nice:bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

*Re: Covering of the wall begins*



Prof. said:


> That seems an awful lot of work..:sweat:
> I've not heard the term or product..*scenemolton*..Please elaborate..


I see "Scenemolton" has not been translated properly. I think the term "stage molton" actually is the valid translation. Google it for more info.

Stage molton is a heavy cotton based textile with some sound absorbing properties, it is completely light proof (no light comes through it) and does not burn easily (anti flammable).

The automated translation was partly an experiment and partly a choice made because I was very tired and ready for bed. I will make better, manual translations in the future. :bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

frodo1 said:


> I think he is trying to tell hus that he wraps the accoustic pannels in GOM, speakercloth if you like.
> Keep up the good work neighbour, it's becoming verry nice:bigsmile:


No, it is not speaker cloth. See above.


----------



## frodo1

I stand corrected:bigsmile:


----------



## FlashJim

Neat space! I enjoy builds like this more than the obnoxious mega $$$ ones.


----------



## roffe

FlashJim said:


> Neat space! I enjoy builds like this more than the obnoxious mega $$$ ones.


Thanx. I can assure you that there are no mega $$$ around to make it obnoxious. ;-)


----------



## roffe

*Covering wall surfaces continues*

Two new acoustic panels ready. Things take time.

 

The frames around these panels had a lot of "funny" angles, too. :sarcastic:


----------



## Prof.

So basically, these acoustic panels are covered in a material which would be very similar to GOM..and then hung on the wall to cover the entire wall..
What are you using to hang them.? Are they fixed top and bottom?
You certainly wouldn't want them to vibrate..


----------



## roffe

What is GOM? Like I stated, the fabric used is not like speaker cloth as far as I know the term "speaker cloth".

Why would the panels vibrate? 

The panels are fastened with (TADAAA!) velcro tape.


----------



## Prof.

roffe said:


> What is GOM? Like I stated, the fabric used is not like speaker cloth as far as I know the term "speaker cloth".


GOM is not speaker cloth..It's a fairly thick cloth that is used on walls to cover over fibreglass insulation.



> The panels are fastened with (TADAAA!) velcro tape.


Ahaa!!..now I've got ya..good old velcro!! :T
That's what I used to fix my acoustic panels in place..
When you said "hung" I presumed that you were fitting them on to some sort of bracket system..:R


----------



## roffe

*Building acoustic frames*

Here are som pictures of the later part of the building of am acoustic frame. Not inkluded in the pictures are initial measurements, kutting wood, drilling of holes, screwing the frame together, routing of edges and cutting of the acoustic panels.
Here is a frame with the Rockwool Acoustic panels.

 

A closer look on the corner.

 

Then it is time to cut the fabric into the right size. You need to have enough fabic to fold up and around the outer eges of the frame. 

 

The cloth is fastened by starting the stretching on the middle of each side, and then gradually working from the middle, along the edge towards the corners

 

The corners are folded as neatly as possible. This is my method of choice.

 
Excess fabric is cut from the corners.

 

Then I use velcro tape to fasten the frame to the wall. The glue on the tape is not fastening properly, so I have to use staples.

 

Using velcro on the wall too, makes hangig the frames easy.


----------



## Prof.

Yes..that's exactly how I made my panels and fitted them to the walls...right down to the stapling on of the velcro..
That's going to be a lot of work!!..I know how long it took me to make up just 4 panels..:whew:


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> Yes..that's exactly how I made my panels and fitted them to the walls...right down to the stapling on of the velcro..
> That's going to be a lot of work!!..I know how long it took me to make up just 4 panels..:whew:


Yes, it takes its time. Prepare for some repetitive status posts. :waiting:


----------



## roffe

*Covering of walls goes on and on...*

More acoustic panels done...


----------



## Prof.

It's looking good and coming along nicely..:T


----------



## Nat Ward

I just wanted to say that the room is looking fantastic, I've enjoyed watching your build! And thank you - thank you very much - for the idea of using velcro to hold the acoustic screens up. My room has angled walls and I had been racking my brain trying to come up with a method to install the screens up evenly. Velcro - awesome!


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> It's looking good and coming along nicely..:T


Thank you!


----------



## roffe

Nat Ward said:


> I just wanted to say that the room is looking fantastic, I've enjoyed watching your build! And thank you - thank you very much - for the idea of using velcro to hold the acoustic screens up. My room has angled walls and I had been racking my brain trying to come up with a method to install the screens up evenly. Velcro - awesome!


Thank you a lot. If my small HT with its compromises and somewhat unusual solutions can be an inspiration, I have done a good job, I think.


----------



## roffe

*Covering of walls goes on and on...*

More panels are done here. Still working along two walls in parallell, but can't conclude that it is more efficient. Anyway, almost half of the walls done. :bigsmile:


----------



## Prof.

That's coming together very quickly..You must be working day and night!! :bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> That's coming together very quickly..You must be working day and night!! :bigsmile:


Thanx.

Well... I tend to sleep short nights. :snoring: 

When I am not needed for the kids or have other plans for the evening, I usually put in some hours between 18:00 and 23:00 (Norwegian time). I then update the web if there is something to report, and get to bed around 01:00. :coocoo:


----------



## roffe

*Half way through covering the walls*

Two new framed acoustic boards done. One more complicated than the other. I'll let the pictures do the talking.


----------



## roffe

*More acoustic boards, almost done on 3 walls*

More of the same (acoustic boards).
This wall now has 5 boards, one more to go:

 

Not much has happened on this side of the room since the last post:

 

I may not have mentioned it before, but frames for the in-wall surround speakers are mounted. It can be seen on this and the previous picture.

 

And here is a view of what remains. I have to do something in the corners of the front wall before I get correct measurements to make the two last boards on the side walls.

 

The observant may notice that the old CD player is gone. The display that can be seen below this work table is a Squeezebox Classic. The old player is once more hidden away in another storage room.


----------



## roffe

*Cables and corners*

Something else than acoustic boards for a change. :T
I have now placed cables in the cable channels and made holes for the cables several places. In the front corners are wooden boards put in diagonally, making them cable channels from ceiling to floor.

Here are the cables for the left surround speakers and HDMI for the projector, too:

 

And the same way for the speakers on the right side:

 

Here are the front corner cable channels pretty obvious.

 

A closer look on one of the speaker cables in the front of the room.

 

Hole for the audio and video cables behind the front rack:

 

A lot of cables through one hole, but still room for a bit more:

 

A closer look on the hole for the projector HDMI cable.

 

And some more wood is still to come. Here a quick shot of some, painted before it is mounted:


----------



## roffe

I was away for a reunion party this weekend, and therefore no new updates are ready for posting. I'll try to put in some evening hours this week.


----------



## roffe

*Ceiling cable channels got walls*

Here are a couple of pics of what it looks like with side walls on the cable/downlight channels under the ceiling.

Towards the rear of the room:










Towards the front of the room:










I think it looks pretty tidy. :yes:

Oh, looks like I've exceeded som kind of upload limit, so here we go with bigger pics again.


----------



## Space

Norways smallest and BEST Looking home cinema!

You really have made a good looking space out of this area...I like it!

Brien


----------



## Prof.

When does the subs under the riser work begin?


----------



## roffe

Space said:


> Norways smallest and BEST Looking home cinema!
> 
> You really have made a good looking space out of this area...I like it!
> 
> Brien


Thank you. I actually like the look myself. Simple and clean.


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> When does the subs under the riser work begin?


Well, the boxes are partly built already, that happened pretty early in the project (in post #25 of this thread):










I will start the work on the front baffles when the room is finished, since building speakers always creates a mess with all the routing of MDF.


----------



## Sonnie

That is a just short of a miracle to work with that small of a space... excellent job... :T


----------



## roffe

Wow. I have never done anything miraculous before. :yay2:

Thanx.


----------



## roffe

*The last gray acoustic frames*

Here the last of the gray frames are done, which means I am done with three of the walls. :yay2:

Left side:










Right side:










Both sides, and the remaining front wall:


----------



## akakillroy

Amazing transformation there my friend!


----------



## roffe

carls64 said:


> Amazing transformation there my friend!


Thanx. I like it too. :bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

*Door for future equipment closet - a small story in pictures*

I really think the pictures say it all. I have little to add.


----------



## roffe

*The screen - another DIY effort*

The canvas for the screen comes from Dreamscreen. I am going for a 180cm wide 16:9 screen. 

The frame is made of 20x48mm wood. First I hung it on the wall to get an impression of size. Definitely not to small. 










Done stretching the canvas and making the frame around the screen. I have used black stage molton for the outer frame.










A close-up.










Straight front shot, finished on the wall.










Another angle. The wide angle lens makes the room look a lot bigger than it is. Kinda cool.


----------



## roffe

*Done with frames on front wall*

With the screen in place, it was time for the last acoustic frames. First step, the two frames on the sides, were the most time consuming










After that, the last two were pretty easy. 










About time to put in a chair, I thought. Starts to look like a complete home theater now.










A view showing the distance between rack and chair pretty well. Everything else is just a picture lying more than a thousand words.










Another lying picture. 8 m² is still 8 m².


----------



## Prof.

It's almost time for some screenshots..:bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

*Can you spot the difference?*

Do you see what's new compared to the previous picture post? The solution is below the pictures.



















You probably saw that I have put in a carpet. The reason is partly acoustics, but also because the room gets a "warmer" feel to it. The carpet is only 3mm thick and the floor heating is coming through nicely to the rest of the room.


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> It's almost time for some screenshots..:bigsmile:


Almost... :whistling:


----------



## Prof.

A pity to have to cover up those nice floor boards..but I'm sure it will help with the acoustics....


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> A pity to have to cover up those nice floor boards..but I'm sure it will help with the acoustics....


Not as much as I hoped, actually, but it is nicer to walk on, so I think the carpet is a keeper. The floor boards look good, but they were not expensive, so I have no regrets about choosing carpet instead.


----------



## roffe

*Riser front and surround speakers mounted*

This time I have pictures of the riser with the front done. 

Picture from the right:










Picture from the left:










Other than that, I have monted the in-wall speakers. Here is a picture of the left surround speaker.










And here is the rear surround on the left side:










It turned out to be a nice surprise that this eliminated a ressonnance easily heard when klapping my hands. Maybe the fabric fronts dampened some local ressonnances...


----------



## Prof.

*Re: Riser front and surround speakers mounted*



roffe said:


> Other than that, I have monted the in-wall speakers. Here is a picture of the left surround speaker.


The surrounds look very nice..
Are the covers the same colour as the soffits or just black?



> It turned out to be a nice surprise that this eliminated a ressonnance easily hird when klapping my hands Maybe the fabic fronts dampened some local ressonnances...


The fabric fronts would have helped because that riser is one big empty chamber..
When the sub boxes are in there, that will also help to reduce room resonances..


----------



## roffe

Pardon my limited english, but what are "soffits"? 

I have spray painted the grilles the same way as the mounting frames (grayish silver), but I am currently planning to play the surrounds without covers. The surrounds are from Dayton, by the way, a brand I had to import to Norway from the US. Similar speakers usually cost the double in Norway.

Link: http://www.daytonaudio.com/audio/inwall_ultra.html - I only had room for the 2-way 5 1/4" model.


----------



## Prof.

roffe said:


> Pardon my limited english, but what are "soffits"?


 They're the channels you have protruding from the side walls, that house your downlights and speakers!


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> They're the channels you have protruding from the side walls, that house your downlights and speakers!


Ah... learning something new every day.  Thanx.


----------



## roffe

*Shelves for the front speakers*

I decided early that I wanted shelf speakers in front, and those need shelves. Here are some pictures from the process of making them.

If you don't have the right colored heads om your screws, make them right:










The shelves are dressed in black stage molton. 










The shelves straight on. The loudspeakers came out of long time storage. They are my trusty, old Dali 2A closed shelf speakers bought in 1990, I think. They will do temporary duty until I have built new DIY speakers.










From a different angle.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: Shelves for the front speakers*



roffe said:


> If you don't have the right colored heads om your screws, make them right:


Good work ...I'm sure your anxious to finish the HT so you can start enjoying movies, Right???

That's a clever idea (about painting the screws) ...is good to know that I'm not the only one who does it :whistling:


----------



## roffe

*Re: Shelves for the front speakers*



salvasol said:


> Good work ...I'm sure your anxious to finish the HT so you can start enjoying movies, Right???
> 
> That's a clever idea (about painting the screws) ...is good to know that I'm not the only one who does it :whistling:


I have been anxious for weeks. :yes:

The painting of screws idea is not new and it is not mine, but still a great tip I found worth mentioning. :T


----------



## roffe

*DIY subwoofers, part 1*

One of the things that make a home theater better and more fun than a commercial movie theater is that it is possible to get a depth and punch in the bass that is not possible in a huge room. I have built speakers before, and subwoofers are not that difficult to build. Here are some pictures from the building process.

But first a picture of the work space. Most of the room is covered by dust when routing MDF. Not a living room activity.










Result after the first routing. Edges are not sanded clean here.










Result after second routing. Baffle is ready for bass reflex ports.










Closeup of element holes and the terminal going in the back. These boxes will not get a built in amplifier.










The ugly rear of the baffle. The bass port tubes are fastened with glue and screws and sealed. It should be all right.










Edges are sanded and holes for the terminals are ready.










Glueing the front baffles to the boxes. The weight of one box is making enough pressure while the glue is setting. 










While waiting for the glue i decided to do the signal cable for the subwoofer. Here it runs through what will once be "hidden" rack.










It is nice to have cable channels (soffits?) that can be opened. The cable continues to the front.










The cable is run down along the wall and behind the screen to the current rack. RCA plugs are soldered on each end after the stretching is done.


----------



## roffe

*Projector mounted*

The projector right out of the box. The model is called Epson EH-TW5000 in Norway and the rest of Europe.










A bit metallic look.










This Chief projector mount makes adjusting the angles of the projector relative to the screeen very easy. It also only builds 7,5cm (about 3 inches) from the ceiling.










A quick snapshot from the DOA-test.










Epson EH-TW5000 is mounted in the ceiling.


----------



## roffe

*DIY subwoofers part 2 .... and ...*

Subwoofer cabinets with a very rough finish before mounting elements.










With drivers and internal cabling in place, this was soon the situastion. The subs are going under the riser in the two center slots.










The subwooferamplifier (borrowed for a while) is set in a makeshift frame and goes under the riser in the right slot in this picture.










Fronts of the riser in place and furniture too. The colour of the sofa looks reddish in this picture. It is not like that in reality.










This is a Patos Basic C210 center speaker. Also a temporary solution, as with the two Dali shelf sepakers. More DIY is to come later to replace this.


----------



## roffe

And we have touchdown!

This picture is a cheat, combined by two other pictures, but it is how it feels. ;-) The pictures were taken before the center speaker was in place.


----------



## Prof.

Nice job on the subs..:T
People in the front seats are going to get a good kick in the kidneys when they're firing..:bigsmile:


----------



## roffe

Prof. said:


> Nice job on the subs..:T
> People in the front seats are going to get a good kick in the kidneys when they're firing..:bigsmile:


Yes, they work pretty well, I can assure you. I'll probably put a couple of 8-inch subs in front too, to get that "in-your-face" smack.


----------



## akakillroy

I have to say, Very nicely done!


----------



## roffe

carls64 said:


> I have to say, Very nicely done!


Thank you. :bigsmile:


----------



## Space

A home entertainment build like this will let others know, there is hope for small places!

You have done a very professional looking job and it looks good as well.

Good luck,


Brien


----------



## roffe

Space said:


> A home entertainment build like this will let others know, there is hope for small places!
> 
> You have done a very professional looking job and it looks good as well.
> 
> Good luck,
> Brien


Thank you. One of the reasons I wanted to do this was to actually prove to myself and to others that it can be done. I am satisfied with the result myself, and hope this may serve as an inspiration to others, even if I do recommend a slightly larger room than this. As little as 30cm (1 foot) more in each direction is a big help to get a bit more elbow room and a more free choice of furniture, speaker placement and projector choice.


----------

