# Getting the ITCH!! Upgrade Recommendations



## IrishStout

Hey first time poster.. but have read a lot of the threads on the site. I will apologize ahead of time as I know I can be a little long winded at times. I thought I had everything figured out but the more I read the more umm indecisive I become. So let's start from the beginning. In 2002 I saved about $5000 and was ready to take a dip into Home Theatre. I did a lot of research and essentially was looking for the most bang for the buck, and wanted to feel like I got a good deal.. so this is the system I bought and still using to this date:

Hitachi 42" Rear Projection
Klipsch Quintet Synergy's with KWS-10 sub
Onkyo 494 Receiver
Panasonic RP-56
Since added a PS3 for BlueRay and Video Game support. 

I have enjoyed this setup for years, but with prices dipping down and everyone around me getting 50" + tv's for way less then I paid for my 42", I am getting the itch big time. I also can not customize my wall until I know what components I am going to buy. 

This was my initial list:

Pansonic 50VT25
Klipsch F30 or RF 52-II with supporting Center (don't think I need a sub with these?)
Onkyo TX-SR708 or 808 Av Receiver
Have some old Polk's I was going to use for the surrounds..

Then I started reading and the same feelings I felt in 2002 started coming back, excitment and confussion.
I started reading about PSB's, SVS, Axiom, Pioneer VSX 1120....
Then my wife laid down the big bomb.. no floorstanding speakers... to big and will mess up the custom wall unit I need to build.. Can I even get the same sound out of Bookshelf speakers?? I think I can hid floorstanding speakers in the wall unit.. but it depends on if I can get the same sound? 

So with all that out of the way here is my situation.. I spend most of my time watching Movies, PS3 games and HDTV, very rarely music. I want good sound.. does not have to be 'loud' sound as I still have yound kids and rarely get the chance air out the speakers I have now but feel like I am missing sound with my Quint's. My room is 18'5" L X 11'3" W X 7' 8-3/4" H. I will be sitting about 12' - 14' away. I would like to spend at most $700 MAX for a Receiver, $1500 MAX for speakers 5.1 (only if sub is required but it's more money) but will upgrade to 7.1 for sure at some point. I am not interested in info about the TV, that stuff I can figure out myself.. it's matching the speakers and everything else where I get a little :yikes:

Please ask all the questions you want and I will answer them to the best of my ability to try. So I guess I need to ask a question or two now LOL...

1) Can I get Bookshelf Speakers that can give me the same sound of Floorstanding speakers without breaking the bank?
2) Is my initial list above a good mix and match?
3) Am I maybe better going with the SVS speakers.. they seem to be a little less costly then the Klipsch setup.
4) 708, 808 or 1120?

I am writting now because I know that Black Friday is next week and I am thinking that I might be able to get a deal here or there. I have family in the States and the more I can pick out between now and then the better.

Once again sorry for the long post but I wanted to try to get everything out of the way so we can concentrate on the good stuff  I am also a little excited to get going.. oh once I get 5 posts or so I will post the picture of the room if it helps?

I really appricate all and any response..


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## Jungle Jack

IrishStout said:


> Hey first time poster.. but have read a lot of the threads on the site. I will apologize ahead of time as I know I can be a little long winded at times. I thought I had everything figured out but the more I read the more umm indecisive I become. So let's start from the beginning. In 2002 I saved about $5000 and was ready to take a dip into Home Theatre. I did a lot of research and essentially was looking for the most bang for the buck, and wanted to feel like I got a good deal.. so this is the system I bought and still using to this date:
> 
> Hitachi 42" Rear Projection
> Klipsch Quintet Synergy's with KWS-10 sub
> Onkyo 494 Receiver
> Panasonic RP-56
> Since added a PS3 for BlueRay and Video Game support.
> 
> I have enjoyed this setup for years, but with prices dipping down and everyone around me getting 50" + tv's for way less then I paid for my 42", I am getting the itch big time. I also can not customize my wall until I know what components I am going to buy.
> 
> This was my initial list:
> 
> Pansonic 50VT25
> Klipsch F30 or RF 62-II with supporting Center (don't think I need a sub with these?)
> Onkyo TX-SR708 or 808 Av Receiver
> Have some old Polk's I was going to use for the surrounds..
> 
> Then I started reading and the same feelings I felt in 2002 started coming back, excitment and confussion.
> I started reading about PSB's, SVS, Axiom, Pioneer VSX 1120....
> Then my wife laid down the big bomb.. no floorstanding speakers... to big and will mess up the custom wall unit I need to build.. Can I even get the same sound out of Bookshelf speakers?? I think I can hid floorstanding speakers in the wall unit.. but it depends on if I can get the same sound?
> 
> So with all that out of the way here is my situation.. I spend most of my time watching Movies, PS3 games and HDTV, very rarely music. I want good sound.. does not have to be 'loud' sound as I still have yound kids and rarely get the chance air out the speakers I have now but feel like I am missing sound with my Quint's. My room is 18'5" L X 11'3" W X 7' 8-3/4" H. I will be sitting about 12' - 14' away. I would like to spend at most $700 MAX for a Receiver, $1500 MAX for speakers 5.1 (only if sub is required but it's more money) but will upgrade to 7.1 for sure at some point. I am not interested in info about the TV, that stuff I can figure out myself.. it's matching the speakers and everything else where I get a little :yikes:
> 
> Please ask all the questions you want and I will answer them to the best of my ability to try. So I guess I need to ask a question or two now LOL...
> 
> 1) Can I get Bookshelf Speakers that can give me the same sound of Floorstanding speakers without breaking the bank?
> 2) Is my initial list above a good mix and match?
> 3) Am I maybe better going with the SVS speakers.. they seem to be a little less costly then the Klipsch setup.
> 4) 708, 808 or 1120?
> 
> I am writting now because I know that Black Friday is next week and I am thinking that I might be able to get a deal here or there. I have family in the States and the more I can pick out between now and then the better.
> 
> Once again sorry for the long post but I wanted to try to get everything out of the way so we can concentrate on the good stuff  I am also a little excited to get going.. oh once I get 5 posts or so I will post the picture of the room if it helps?
> 
> I really appricate all and any response..


Many Bookshelf Speakers are just as capable as Floorstanding Speakers. The list made included excellent Components. Speakers are a personal decision and is difficult to ascertain which are the best. If I had a choice, I would go with the 808. Speakers are the most important upgrade in my estimation. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## koyaan

Book shelf speakers can sound great. You'll probably want to consider a sub though as you probably won't get quite as much bass extention as with floorstanders.


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## IrishStout

Thanks for the quick replies, I visited a shop with the Klipsch RF towers speakers and remember them blowing me away... I can not hear the SVS's or PSB because I have not found anyone selling them in my area.
So two questions:

1) Do you have any recommendation in regards to Bookshelfs that would be compatible with the sound of Klipsch?
2) Do you have to match the surrounds to the front 3 speakers? I like the idea of the Axiom M3 v3 as they are pretty much flush to the wall.


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## hddummy

IrishStout said:


> 1) Do you have any recommendation in regards to Bookshelfs that would be compatible with the sound of Klipsch?
> 2) Do you have to match the surrounds to the front 3 speakers? I like the idea of the Axiom M3 v3 as they are pretty much flush to the wall.


I second the notion of requiring a sub if you have bookshelf speakers. I Have a set of Yamaha bookshelf speakers and I was generally underwhelmed with the base output....ESPECIALLY for movies. I built a sub and now I couldn't be happier. I think the combination of bookshelfs and a DIY sub is cheaper than most good Tower speakers out there.

As for matching LCR and surrounds....i think most would tell you it isn't critical. Matching LCR to each other is critical. I would recommend matching all surround speakers to each other. Matching LCR to surrouds....not quite so much. The amount and consistency of sound comming out of the surrounds is not enough to highlight any significant differences to the front LCR.


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## tonyvdb

Agreed!, A sub is essential for movies. There are only a handful of tower speakers that will go low enough that you would not require a sub and they cost thousands of $$. Movies go in to the 10Hz range and not many speakers will go that low. 
Klipsch makes good speakers But I highly recommend SVS as well they have package deals that include a sub and they will sound better than most speakers sold in the store for the same price.


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## GranteedEV

Check out RBH Sound's in-wall offerings. THey sound like the right choice for you, and I really think they'll blow you away.

I'm thinkin.. for the front stage, find a local RBH dealer and audition the MC 616s (three would be your Left/Center/Right front stage, and could also be your rear surrounds), and also look into two MC-6DBs(which would be your side surrounds), and MC-6s(which could be your rear surrounds, and if budget forces it, your Left/Center/Right front stage as well) and a pair of SI-1010 in wall subs (don't look too hard at this one, it's probably on the expensive side compared to the internet direct offerings, but it should be a nice sub for its purpose)

I can't really recommend bookshelves or floorstanders for your particular purpose. The problem is that when a speaker is designed, its crossover is designed for that partucular front baffle, with the assumption that there will be plenty of free air around and behind it. Usually you want the front baffle of your speakers at least 15-20 inches from any walls so that reflections don't compromise the sound. I recommend reading up on Baffle Diffraction Steps and Baffle Step Compensation. As you'll see, mounting just any speaker in a wall or cabinet can lead to very uneven and boomy sound, because the wall "becomes" the baffle. Even bookshelf speakers are often not designed to be used in a bookshelf or near a wall, rather on speaker stands well away from a wall. 

Another suggestion for in wall I can recommend are the EMP tek internet direct offerings. 

http://www.emptek.com/onwall.php

These are on, not in-wall speakers. You would hang them like a picture, and they'll sound really nice as this speaker company makes sweet speakers. Again, the difference comes from whether it's flush mounted or mounted an inch or two away from the wall, and comes right back down to baffle step compensation.

On the subwoofer front... definitely recommend something excellent. They can make or break a movie and music experience. taoggniklat below me recommended some nice ones, and past that I recommend waiting for the audioholics subwoofer shootout to be published. They compared some great subs and it'll be very useful to help make a decision.


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## taoggniklat

The nice thing with bookshelf size speakers is that you can get the same model for all 5/6/7 channels and really get a nice seamless audio sound.

Matched with a good sub from HSU, SVS, eD, Epik or better, you will have a rockin system.

Personally if you are going to put speakers in a cabinet, might as well go with a bookshelf as a floorstander won't gain much in my opinion.

Another option is to go with 3.1 to start and add surrounds later. that way you can put a little more money into the main part of the system and get some quality stuff.


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## GranteedEV

taoggniklat said:


> Another option is to go with 3.1 to start and add surrounds later. that way you can put a little more money into the main part of the system and get some quality stuff.


Great point, you can move the Klipsches to the back. I'm thinking 3.4 though 

Maybe something like Four Seaton Terraform XLs
Three RBH SI-6100s


hehehehehehehehehehehehehehee @[email protected]


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## lsiberian

The Klipsch reference stuff is amazing. I'd definitely go with that if you like them.


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## hddummy

Yeah...if you were going to get klipsch RF speakers for LCR, I would definately consider taking the four Klipsch Quintets you have and use them as surrounds.


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## IrishStout

Thanks for the advice and keep it coming. Would the KSW-10 that I have with my current system be good enough sub should I get the RF-52's or the SVS or RBH's ? Here are the specs for the SUB: --ttp://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/ksw-10-specifications---

The reason I like the thought of Klipsch is because of the horns and how clear and crisp the voice reproduction is. Will the SVS's and RBH's of the world produce the same crispness? I am not sure I can find an RBH outlet or shop here in Canada? I was also on RBH's website and could not find the MC 616s.

So.. in all of your opionions? Should I try to fight the boss and get floor standing? Is it worth the battle? Here are my thoughts.. I thought if I got Floor standing I could do with out the sub meaning one less thing I needed to buy (unless my KSW will do) But lookng at the price between Floor and Bookshelf.. it looks I can get more bang for the buck as Bookshelfs seem to be less. But as mentioned can produce the same effect as floor standing? Is this correct?


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## tonyvdb

The SVS speakers use very high quality tweeters and would most certainly sound quite good. SVS also has a Canadian distributor called Sonic Boom Audio located in Richmond Ontario.


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## taoggniklat

IrishStout said:


> Thanks for the advice and keep it coming. Would the KSW-10 that I have with my current system be good enough sub should I get the RF-52's or the SVS or RBH's ? Here are the specs for the SUB: --ttp://www.klipsch.com/na-en/products/ksw-10-specifications---
> 
> The reason I like the thought of Klipsch is because of the horns and how clear and crisp the voice reproduction is. Will the SVS's and RBH's of the world produce the same crispness? I am not sure I can find an RBH outlet or shop here in Canada? I was also on RBH's website and could not find the MC 616s.
> 
> So.. in all of your opionions? Should I try to fight the boss and get floor standing? Is it worth the battle? Here are my thoughts.. I thought if I got Floor standing I could do with out the sub meaning one less thing I needed to buy (unless my KSW will do) But lookng at the price between Floor and Bookshelf.. it looks I can get more bang for the buck as Bookshelfs seem to be less. But as mentioned can produce the same effect as floor standing? Is this correct?


I don't have any experience with SVS nor am I familiar with that particular sub, but I do have a friend with some older Klipsch speakers. What you like in a speaker is your own opinion, but I will say that the "crispness" that you seem to like (nothing wrong with that) is the very thing that many people find irritating with the Klipsch. It can be too much high end and be fatiguing to listen to (again to some).

While it is true a tower speaker will be capable of more bass output then a bookshelf, there are very few full range tower speakers out there, and they are not cheap. You can certainly get tower speakers first and add a sub later, but regardless if you get towers or bookshelves, I think you will want the subwoofer. 

You can certainly use the KSW for now and upgrading it later. 

If you really do like the Klipsch speakers then by all means get those. There are plenty of people that do like them. There is also Paradigm, PSB, Mirage, Aperion etc that make wonderful speakers in your price range.


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## taoggniklat

hddummy said:


> I second the notion of requiring a sub if you have bookshelf speakers. I Have a set of Yamaha bookshelf speakers and I was generally underwhelmed with the base output....ESPECIALLY for movies. I built a sub and now I couldn't be happier. I think the combination of bookshelfs and a DIY sub is cheaper than most good Tower speakers out there.
> 
> As for matching LCR and surrounds....i think most would tell you it isn't critical. Matching LCR to each other is critical. I would recommend matching all surround speakers to each other. Matching LCR to surrouds....not quite so much. The amount and consistency of sound comming out of the surrounds is not enough to highlight any significant differences to the front LCR.


I agree with these statements, but I would also add that if I was building a home theater system using small speakers (ie bookshelves) I would do my best to have them all the same. Obviously you can have great results by not doing that, but for me personally I would make every effort to match them all.

Just my 2cents


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## IrishStout

I kind of like you take on things taoggniklat in reguards to: if you where building a system...

So how this situation everyone... I just gave each of you $1500 to spend on speakers and $700 to spend on a receiver for you to spend on a system for you.. write down what you would buy with your new found money.. I am curious because as it has been said many times.. to each is own, when it comes to speakers..

Respond with the following two senarios (listing the items):
1) Floor Standing system 3.1 or 5.1 if you can mange? Listing the reciever you would buy for the system
2) Bookshelf's 5.1 system and the reciever you would buy for this system..

If you have money left over then that's a bonus and it goes towards something special!!

And so it begins...

Give it a try .. might be fun..


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## bambino

I agree that Bookshelf speakers can be just as capable as some floor standers, i had a set of some of the older Paradigm Monitor 3's years ago and ran them forever, i do think however to get full capability while using them a sub is a must.:T


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## fusionrx

You could look at a good set of lightly used speakers on craigslist or similar... Seen a number of slighty older Klipsch going for a decent price around here.


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## hddummy

Either senario Receiver: Onkyo TX-NR808: $680 right now on amazon
Either senario Sub: DIY if capable ~$500 or Dayton RS1200K kit from parts express $550
1a) Aperion 4T towers and 5C center $1000
1b) Madisound Zaph ZA5.5 Towers Kit, ZA5.3c Center Kit, ZA5.2 Bookshelf Kit $900 + building materials
2a) Aperion 5B bookshelf pair, 5C center, 4B surrounds $1160
2b) Madisound Zaph ZA5.3 MTM Kit, ZA5.3c Center Kit, ZA5.2 Bookshelf Kit $685 + building materials
2c) Madisound Zaph ZA5.3 MTM Kit, ZA5.3c Center Kit, 2X ZA5.2 Bookshelf Kit $890 + building materials


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## IrishStout

Thanks for the response hddummy.. although I am sure the systems you mention about Madisound would probably give me a great bang for the buck.. having to build my wall unit and then tearing down my laundry room.. I do not think I will have the time to build speaker boxes and such. I was actually looking at the 4t towers at one point, but I still need to be able to sell the Tower idea to my wife.. still working on it 

Any other takers that want to buy me my speakers .. hahaha..
I will probably also be looking at using my exsiting sub for now as it appears Subs are usually worth more way more then the speakers (unless I DYI)

Interesting no one else has recommended another receiver.. I guess I am pretty safe with the Onkyo 708 or 808. Hopefully that is one thing I can stop worring abut then?


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## koyaan

Just a caution, even if you use bookshelf speakers, they may not preform well inside a cabinet. If you want them inside, you probably want to build "in-wall" speakers into the cabinet. If you can't do that and decide to put bookshelve speakers inside, consider sealed speakers rather than ported.


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## bambino

koyaan said:


> Just a caution, even if you use bookshelf speakers, they may not preform well inside a cabinet. If you want them inside, you probably want to build "in-wall" speakers into the cabinet. If you can't do that and decide to put bookshelve speakers inside, consider sealed speakers rather than ported.


Or front ported speakers.:T

If possible, i always advise not to use in-walls.

I don't think you can go wrong with the Onkyos.


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## hddummy

To be honest, I really don't think (for me anyway) $1000 would be enough to buy a set of speakers. I think you could do better if you put $500 on a sub and $1500 in just speakers. In fact, I would either cut back or hold off on upgrading your receiver until you had more budget. That way you could free up more money for speakers now. Receivers will continue to evolve and give you more bang for a given price point. Speakers on the other hand are a serious investment not to be skimped on. In my opinion, start with the speakers...get what you really want...use what's left for an AVR or hold until budget permits.


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## IrishStout

Interesting how BookShelf speakers are not really desgined for bookshelves but more ideal for Stands?? How is that saving space then??
@ hddummy - thanks for the reply and I understand your your point of view.. yes, I could save and save.. but nothing say's the money I have now will be here tomorrow..
I also think that I can get a lot better then I have now for money I have. Already peeps on this board have mentioned there are systems which can offer the sound quality of speakers that sound compariable to speakers that I would never imagine spending that much money on.. the SVS's for instance are at the $1300'ish mark. Well within the $1500 I set aside. I really would like to try to get the best I can (relively speaking of course) with the money I have. However, had you said I could by the Onk 708 and be just as happy with it as with the 808 and I would then have an extra $300 to spend on speakers and speakers XYZ can be purchased for $1800 then I would agree.. but to just keep holding off.. Unless you can prive to me that saving an extra $400 is going to be mind blowing in the end... 


I have posted the room space/layout I am working with.. the wall unit in the picture is not what will be created, I am still in the drawing board. That thing on the side of the room is a fireplace.. hard to see..


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## IrishStout

bambino said:


> Or front ported speakers.:T
> 
> If possible, i always advise not to use in-walls.
> 
> I don't think you can go wrong with the Onkyos.




Any you can recommend?


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## bambino

I will do some brand searching and come back, nothing is coming to mind right off the top of my head but i know there out there.:T


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## eugovector

IrishStout said:


> Any you can recommend?


Aperion 4 series Bookshelf is sealed. Behringer 2030 are front pitted as are my JBL studio series ii (and I think the new studio l may be front ported as well). I'm on the road, but if you need more recommendations let me know.


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## sbk12rs

hddummy said:


> To be honest, I really don't think (for me anyway) $1000 would be enough to buy a set of speakers. I think you could do better if you put $500 on a sub and $1500 in just speakers. In fact, I would either cut back or hold off on upgrading your receiver until you had more budget. That way you could free up more money for speakers now. Receivers will continue to evolve and give you more bang for a given price point. Speakers on the other hand are a serious investment not to be skimped on. In my opinion, start with the speakers...get what you really want...use what's left for an AVR or hold until budget permits.


I thought it was the other way around ? Start with the AVR ????

Still a newbie here .......... so be kind :scratch:


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## Ares

sbk12rs said:


> I thought it was the other way around ? Start with the AVR ????
> 
> Still a newbie here .......... so be kind :scratch:


Choosing your speakers first will give you an ideal on what type of AVR you need (Watts, Ohm requirements etc..).

As far as for front ported bookshelf speakers PSB Image B25's or the Image B6 (new model) will do nicely, the B25's can be found at DMC for $319/pr or the B6's from Crutchfield for $499/pr


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## lsiberian

Most speakers are front ported, but you need to make sure you use proper damping between the cabinet and speaker or you will get nasty sound. This is critical. I don't suggest in-walls. Just use the cabinet, but make sure you get some good foam or insulation damping.


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## hddummy

IrishStout said:


> However, had you said I could by the Onk 708 and be just as happy with it as with the 808 and I would then have an extra $300


Actually, I think the only thing of note that the 808 has over the 708 is the Component upconversion to HDMI and third zone controls. If you don't need those functions, then the 708 is also an excellent option and I think the difference in price could be put to good use in the speaker department.


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## GranteedEV

IrishStout said:


> Thanks for the response hddummy.. although I am sure the systems you mention about Madisound would probably give me a great bang for the buck.. having to build my wall unit and then tearing down my laundry room.. I do not think I will have the time to build speaker boxes and such. I was actually looking at the 4t towers at one point, but I still need to be able to sell the Tower idea to my wife.. still working on it
> 
> Any other takers that want to buy me my speakers .. hahaha..
> I will probably also be looking at using my exsiting sub for now as it appears Subs are usually worth more way more then the speakers (unless I DYI)
> 
> Interesting no one else has recommended another receiver.. I guess I am pretty safe with the Onkyo 708 or 808. Hopefully that is one thing I can stop worring abut then?


General rule of thumb, electronics are secondary to speakers when it comes to audio. But if you insist... Marantz AV7005 paired with an emotiva XPR-7 :innocent:


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## bambino

GranteedEV said:


> General rule of thumb, electronics are secondary to speakers when it comes to audio. But if you insist... Marantz AV7005 paired with an emotiva XPR-7 :innocent:


If the XPR-7 ever arrives that is, i've been waiting and hoping for what seems like a life time.:whistling:


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## Emuc64

IrishStout said:


> I just gave each of you $1500 to spend on speakers and $700 to spend on a receiver for you to spend on a system for you..
> 2) Bookshelf's 5.1 system and the reciever you would buy for this system..



Ooh, I love spending someone else's imaginary money given to me. 

Receiver - Either Onkyo would be under the $700 limit
Speakers - Without floor standers, I'd go with...
SVSound 5.0 Multi-channel SCS-02(M) speaker system with SSS-02 surrounds** $947
SVSound PB10-NSD $499

"Pair these speakers with any SVS subwoofer and get 5% off the sub when purchased with an SCS-02(M) combo! Use coupon code "packagesub" when checking out to receive your subwoofer discount."

Add shipping and maybe a little left over from the Onkyo and you're right around the $2200 mark. Of course I'm not sure how the SSS-02 Surrounds would work if they're built into the wall as they'd have to stick out some.:huh:


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## IrishStout

Ya, I keep seeing these SVS speakers come up. I regards to the surrounds, I am worried about them sticking out because of the arragement of the room. If you notice, traffic will be passing between the couch and the wall..
Could I get the same effect if I placed the surrounds on the back wall?
If not then would AXIOM M3 on walls work with the SVS's as surrounds? They have a very small profile.
I am not sure i want to play around with in wall speakers.. my concern here is where wall joists might be as well as one side is an outside wall?


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## callas01

IrishStout said:


> Ya, I keep seeing these SVS speakers come up. I regards to the surrounds, I am worried about them sticking out because of the arragement of the room. If you notice, traffic will be passing between the couch and the wall..
> Could I get the same effect if I placed the surrounds on the back wall?
> If not then would AXIOM M3 on walls work with the SVS's as surrounds? They have a very small profile.
> I am not sure i want to play around with in wall speakers.. my concern here is where wall joists might be as well as one side is an outside wall?


I would say

PSB Image B5 fronts $399
PSB Image C5 center $375
PSB Image B5 surrounds $399
Sanus Speaker Stands for fronts $110
Elemental Designs A2-250 $350

Denon 3310 $578 can still be had on amazon and few other sites

$2202


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## Emuc64

IrishStout said:


> Ya, I keep seeing these SVS speakers come up. I regards to the surrounds, I am worried about them sticking out because of the arragement of the room. If you notice, traffic will be passing between the couch and the wall..
> Could I get the same effect if I placed the surrounds on the back wall?
> If not then would AXIOM M3 on walls work with the SVS's as surrounds? They have a very small profile.
> I am not sure i want to play around with in wall speakers.. my concern here is where wall joists might be as well as one side is an outside wall?


With the caveat that I'm still new to this, my understanding is that you _can _put the L/R surround on the back wall instead of directly to left and right of the central listening position.

Re: In wall speakers, that was my misunderstanding. From the nice diagram you drew, I thought they'd be normal bookshelf speakers placed into the wall. So, with the traffic passing by the right surround, you wouldn't want the surrounds on a speaker stand... yet you don't want in-wall speakers... Is the only option, having the surrounds go behind on the back wall?

One piece of advice I've heard is that you should get more than one set and audition them if you can. I don't think it matters if the room isn't done yet because one can do a side by side comparison.


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## Emuc64

Emuc64 said:


> With the caveat that I'm still new to this, my understanding is that you _can _put the L/R surround on the back wall instead of directly to left and right of the central listening position.


To add to that. I did find an article on speaker placement. I happened to stumble upon it under my own quest to understand more about speaker basics. See the section under "Tips for odd-shaped rooms"
http://www.crutchfield.com/learn/learningcenter/home/speaker_placement.html


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## IrishStout

callas01 said:


> I would say
> 
> PSB Image B5 fronts $399
> PSB Image C5 center $375
> PSB Image B5 surrounds $399
> Sanus Speaker Stands for fronts $110
> Elemental Designs A2-250 $350


I found a PSB supplier here in Ottawa and they just happen to be having a sale. I may have to slip out at lunch this week and have a listen. I am still also still intrigued by the SVS's as well. I con't forget the good ol Klispch as well of course. Decisions.. Decisions...


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## hddummy

I think PSB is a Canadian brand.


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## bambino

hddummy said:


> I think PSB is a Canadian brand.


Yep they are. :sn:


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## IrishStout

Hoping to hop out at lunch tomorrow to go listen. I'll let you know what I think..


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## IrishStout

Never got out, but if anyone can find a better deal then $629 for a 808 please send me the site... you know with tomorrow being Black Friday and all..
Thanks a bunch..


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## Jungle Jack

IrishStout said:


> Never got out, but if anyone can find a better deal then $629 for a 808 please send me the site... you know with tomorrow being Black Friday and all..
> Thanks a bunch..


For a current Model, that price is awesome and will be tough to beat. Might be worth calling the local Dealer to see if they could come close in price.
JJ


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## IrishStout

Okay, so I still have not had a chance to listen to the PSB's but I was reading up on some other speaker reviews and came across these speakers that seem to get pretty good praise.

Anyone have any experience with this setup? EMP E5Ti Impression Series? Or the slightly more expensive E55Ti's? 

The EMP 5Ti's at $500 and Centre at $220 seems almost to good to be true.. When the SVS's are suppose to be a steal at $799...

Looking forward to your thoughts..


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## IrishStout

UPDATE - Finally made it to the Audio Centre in Ottawa to listen to the PSB speakers. This was very interesting. I listen to the following speakers being driven by a Cambridge Amp with the following conclusions..

Imagine T5 - Sounded thin and a little weak... did not expect that.. $1000
Imagine T6 - Very lovely speaker.. nice full sound but also $1500
Image B6 - Very similar to the T6 $425 and better sounding then the T5 but rear ported.. so would not work well in the potential wall unit.

So I asked the sale person if he anything front ported.. he introduced me to a fantastic speaker.. one I had no researched.
B&W 685's .. sounded almost as full if not as full as the T6 at $800. Very surprising.... one of my fav's thus far. Any comment on these?

I finally ended up at Future Shop to listen to my original fav's the RF62 and RF82's. I was super impressed with the RF 82's Great full sound.. but they did not have the R62 centre.. only RF 52 and it sounded a little to low for the 82's. Now for the pretty good part... they currently have a deal on .. buy 1 tower, get the other one for free.. so I could get the 82's for $899. Not sure how good a deal that really is? I have seen them cheaper online, but only in the US and I live in Canada..

Any thoughts... oh I am also about 95% I am going with the Onk 808 or the 708... argh really torn if I really need the 808..

Any comments or thoughts welcomed on the speakers and the reciever that would work best..


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## GranteedEV

Since you're in ontario, I recommend you find a PMC dealer near you and audition those!


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## IrishStout

GranteedEV said:


> Since you're in ontario, I recommend you find a PMC dealer near you and audition those!


Wow, if I was made of money I would defintely take a listen but even the cheapest Bookshelves would eat up my entire budget.. 

But I did listen to Totum and I really liked them. So now I am stuck inbetween 4 sets.. Klipsch RF82, B&W 685, and Totum Mite-T compact and Mite-Centre.. http://totemacoustic.com/english/hi-fi/compact/mite-t/?surround=sttaf-mite

Any thoughts?


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## Jungle Jack

IrishStout said:


> Wow, if I was made of money I would defintely take a listen but even the cheapest Bookshelves would eat up my entire budget..
> 
> But I did listen to Totum and I really liked them. So now I am stuck inbetween 4 sets.. Klipsch RF82, B&W 685, and Totum Mite-T compact and Mite-Centre.. http://totemacoustic.com/english/hi-fi/compact/mite-t/?surround=sttaf-mite
> 
> Any thoughts?


If using an Budget AVR, I would go with the Klipschs. Their Efficiency means they will play loudly with very little Power. This is of huge importance if using an AVR with a weak Amplifier Section.

I quite like Totems and think with Music are fantastic. Like the B&W's they need a fairly strong Amplifier Section to sound their best.

B&W's are somewhat the middle ground between the three. They are more Efficient than the Totems and better suited for Reference Level HT Playback when not using outboard Amplification, but are still excellent with Music. The Klipschs will definitely play loudest with the least power, but Horn Loaded Speakers are not for everyone. Definitely a type of Speaker that needs to be Auditioned to find out if to ones liking.
Cheers,
JJ


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## IrishStout

So Jack, with the information you provided me, would the Onk 708, 808 or Elite 32 be ableto drive these speakers well enough?


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## Jungle Jack

IrishStout said:


> So Jack, with the information you provided me, would the Onk 708, 808 or Elite 32 be ableto drive these speakers well enough?


I would go with the TX-NR808 or if 3D is not an issue Onkyo's TX-SR876. With the TX-SR876, there is not a Speaker that it cannot Drive well with the exception of Electrostats or Planar Speakers.
JJ 
.


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## GranteedEV

IrishStout said:


> Wow, if I was made of money I would defintely take a listen but even the cheapest Bookshelves would eat up my entire budget..
> 
> But I did listen to Totum and I really liked them. So now I am stuck inbetween 4 sets.. Klipsch RF82, B&W 685, and Totum Mite-T compact and Mite-Centre.. http://totemacoustic.com/english/hi-fi/compact/mite-t/?surround=sttaf-mite
> 
> Any thoughts?


My experience with totems is that they're small-room speakers. They sound good but don't expect them to get very loud, especially if you're sitting far enough away in a big enough room.


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## IrishStout

Thanks for the information about the Totums. I was unable to hear the speakers I was interested in, but they let me hear a set of compariable ones. So I am a little skeptical You thoughts go a ling way. So it looks like now I am more focussed on the B&W's and the Klipsch.
What sucks now is I was hoping to get a package deal on the speakers and the TV. But the place that sells the B&W's only sell Panisonic 54TV25 and not the Samsung 58C8000. Althought both really good T.V's I have read that the Samsung C8000 seriers edges out the VT25, it's also slightly larger.
Thoughts?? 

Oh and looking at my setup (picture I posted) think at 54 would be large enough.. I am stitting about 12 - 14 feet away...


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## Jungle Jack

IrishStout said:


> Thanks for the information about the Totums. I was unable to hear the speakers I was interested in, but they let me hear a set of compariable ones. So I am a little skeptical You thoughts go a ling way. So it looks like now I am more focussed on the B&W's and the Klipsch.
> What sucks now is I was hoping to get a package deal on the speakers and the TV. But the place that sells the B&W's only sell Panisonic 54TV25 and not the Samsung 58C8000. Althought both really good T.V's I have read that the Samsung C8000 seriers edges out the VT25, it's also slightly larger.
> Thoughts??
> 
> Oh and looking at my setup (picture I posted) think at 54 would be large enough.. I am stitting about 12 - 14 feet away...


Hello,
As far as TV's go, I would go with the Panasonic VT25 over the Samsung every time. I have read few Reviews and Posts that have not called it the best 3D Ready TV available. Moreover, a good friend purchased one and had it ISF Calibrated and I thought it looked amazing.

As far as Speakers go, I do think the Totems are worth Auditioning. I will say that the Efficiency of the Klipschs make them mighty tempting. Especially if you value high SPL's.
Cheers,
JJ


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## IrishStout

Well just ordered my receiver from Accessories4Less... Went with the Onkyo tx-NR808. But I won't be getting it until after Christmas.. sent it to my Father in Law in the US. I ended up paying $599..
Hope I will not be dissappointed with a Referb.. returning it might be a bit of an issue?

All that is left now is Front-Centre and TV.

There is a pair of RF82's and the special right now is buy one get one free but the guys is recommending I go with the RF52 centre.. is this going to be enough with the RF82's?


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## Jungle Jack

IrishStout said:


> Well just ordered my receiver from Accessories for Less... Went with the Onkyo tx-NR808. But I won't be getting it until after Christmas.. sent it to my Father in Law in the US. I ended up paying $599..
> Hope I will not be dissappointed with a Referb.. returning it might be a bit of an issue?
> 
> All that is left now is Front-Centre and TV.


Hello,
You have 30 Days to Audition the AVR and if not satisfied, Returns are no problem at all. That being said, I purchased a B-Stock TX-NR3007 from there a few Months ago and could not be more pleased. My B-Stock appeared Brand New and the guys at AC4L thought it was as well as I drove up from Sarasota to Orlando where they are located.

I just Purchased a new Windows 7 Notebook today ending 5 Years of non stop Apple Ownership and I am now able to Stream all of my Music from my Computer to my AVR. The Music originated from my EVO 4G and I was able to Transfer it all to my PC and then to my Onkyo. I am loving it.

599 is an awesome price for a current AVR that Retails for about twice that. For the money, I do not think you could have done much better.
Cheers,
JJ


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## IrishStout

System is slowly coming together... so I am taking a $48 X 2 risk. I have read so many good reviews on SVS I thought I needed to give them a try. So for $1297.20 taxes and shipping included (in Canada) I am getting the STS-02 towers and the matching Centre Channel, they should arrive Friday.
I will be using my Klipsch Quintets as my SL, SR and maybe backs as well and my Klipsch 10" Sub for a 7.1 system all being driven by my Onk TX-NR808.
Hopefully I am impressed with the STS-02's and Centre and then I can concentrate on my TV. Guy was nice as well and said if I wanted to add in the SVS surround later he would give them to me for $474 again Taxes and Shipping in.

Thoughts?


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## taoggniklat

I see you already ordered some SVS, but this is another package deal I would consider if you don't like the SVS.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/enthusiast2.html

Personally I would drop 2 of the monitors and replace with a second sub and that would be a killer system. (5.1 with Dual VTF2mk3's)

At any rate, good luck with your SVS's I have heard good things about them.


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## Andre

I didn't think the HSU's were easily available in Canada. Something to do with being unable to get warranty?


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## taoggniklat

Andre said:


> I didn't think the HSU's were easily available in Canada. Something to do with being unable to get warranty?


here is Pete's post about shipping to CA.

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?t=2386

Not sure if that is what you are referring to? I would think the warranty would be the same, just might cost more shipping back and forth. But it would be that for pretty much any cross-border transaction I would guess. 

But it looks like the OP went with SVS so its all a moot point anyways


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## GranteedEV

IrishStout said:


> System is slowly coming together... so I am taking a $48 X 2 risk. I have read so many good reviews on SVS I thought I needed to give them a try. So for $1297.20 taxes and shipping included (in Canada) I am getting the STS-02 towers and the matching Centre Channel, they should arrive Friday.
> I will be using my Klipsch Quintets as my SL, SR and maybe backs as well and my *Klipsch 10"* Sub for a 7.1 system all being driven by my Onk TX-NR808.
> Hopefully I am impressed with the STS-02's and Centre and then I can *concentrate on my TV*. Guy was nice as well and said if I wanted to add in the SVS surround later he would give them to me for $474 again Taxes and Shipping in.
> 
> Thoughts?


*concentrate on my dual 15" subwoofers


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## IrishStout

Just a quick update...
I have since received my new Onk 808 receiver and I am very impressed with it thus far. Only small issue is I can not figure out how to shut off Zone1 without muting it, when I only want to listen to Zone 2?
But the sound is great from it and the number of options is endless.
I now also have a pair of Klipsh RF82 and the RF62 centre I am auditioning against the SVS. Just finally getting the receiver hooked up I have not yet had the chance to listen to the Klipsch but I am currently very impressed with the SVS-02 and matching centre. The klipsch will have to really impress me.


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## IrishStout

So the choice has finally been made.. I am going with the SVS STS-02 and SCS-02 and will plan to buy the SSS-02 and an SVS or HSU sub at some point. So up to date here is my current system..

SVS STS-02 and SCS-02
Onkyo TX-NR808
Polk R10 in a 5.1 as surrounds or my Quintet's in a 7.1??
PS3

Up next in a few months.. Bigger Screen TV.. can't wait..

Thanks for all of your opinions and help with all of my questions and I have to agree, you need to listen to the speakers before you can really tell if they are the one's you want...


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## Jungle Jack

IrishStout said:


> So the choice has finally been made.. I am going with the SVS STS-02 and SCS-02 and will plan to buy the SSS-02 and an SVS or HSU sub at some point. So up to date here is my current system..
> 
> SVS STS-02 and SCS-02
> Onkyo TX-NR808
> Polk R10 in a 5.1 as surrounds or my Quintet's in a 7.1??
> PS3
> 
> Up next in a few months.. Bigger Screen TV.. can't wait..
> 
> Thanks for all of your opinions and help with all of my questions and I have to agree, you need to listen to the speakers before you can really tell if they are the one's you want...


Hello,
That is an excellent plan of action and in the end, you are going to have a fantastic HT.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> That is an excellent plan of action and in the end, you are going to have a fantastic HT.
> Cheers,
> JJ


As a great man once said, "I love it when a plan comes together!" Cue music. *Dun-dun-dun-duh...Dun-dun-dun*

I hope you enjoy your speaker setup and that your future upgrade plans go smoothly.


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## GranteedEV

IrishStout said:


> Thanks for all of your opinions and help with all of my questions and I have to agree, you need to listen to the speakers before you can really tell if they are the one's you want...


But you also learned that "Blind" internet direct buys aren't too shabby :spend::spend::spend:


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