# HDTV Shootout Livestream



## Sonnie

The Value Electronics HDTV Shootout begins today at 6 PM sharp and tomorrow at 1 PM sharp (Eastern Time).

Link to HDTV Shootout





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## Robert Zohn

You are watching a live test we're doing of the broadcast stream. We pushing for the highest HD resolution and minimal compression to ensure the best possible video and audio quality possible. 

Looking forward to many HTS members participation tonight at 6 PM EST and tomorrow afternoon at 1PM EST. Both days will be moderated by our staff senior a/v techs and some comments and questions will be read out loud for the panel of experts to answer.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## jarrod1937

If I may ask, what is an "HDTV Shootout"? Call me dense, but I don't know what that means exactly.

Edit: Nevermind, it's basically a "shootout" technical comparison of tv's. So, yes, dense I am ;-)


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## Kamakaro

I'm taking it's a quality picture comparison involving various model tv's from each respective manufacturer.


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## Robert Zohn

Kamakaro, correct and I'll add we are evaluating all flagship models from all premium TV manufacturers.

I've assembled a top team of video experts to do the calibrations and evaluations. Watch the live HD webcast tonight at 6 PM EST and tomorrow at 1 PM EST.

-Robert


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## Kamakaro

I will make sure to watch it!!


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## jarrod1937

Oh ok, thanks for clarifying, I was just looking for an explanation/summary of what it's all about in the topics main post and didn't see one, which threw me off a bit. I'm glad you'll be covering more of the technical end, rather than just a quick feature comparison like most do. I've done a bit of display calibration myself (using Spectral's Calman) and look forward to the out of the box display accuracy the most. Most people don't know what they're missing with a non-calibrated display, so i'm a big proponent of at least providing an accurate display profile (to be able to select) straight from the manufacturer.


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## mechman

That Elite sure looks good via the streaming video! The blacks look outstanding.


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## Robert Zohn

And you are ^^ 100% correct.

-Robert


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## minuccims

Robert - Thanks again for hosting the shoot out!!!!


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## Kamakaro

So who came up top?? I couldn't watch it and I don't think I'll be able to watch it today at 1 either :-/


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## eugovector

1:09pm EST Sunday: Looks like you're having some questions/confusion regarding calibration. Have all these sets been calibrated for best performance or is this just out of the box? Seems like, for the most level playing field, all sets should b calibrated for best performance.


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## mechman

I believe they have spent the last 4 days calibrating them all. I know Kevin Miller, DeWayne (D-Nice), and Ed Johnson heave been there for the last 4 days or so. So to answer your question Marshall, I believe they all are calibrated. :T


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## JBSAUNDERS

What would be really cool is if someone had a well calibrated "CRT" to add to the mix. I sure would like to here the impressions. Please don't get me wronge I understand you can not go out and purchase one. just a thought


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## Hi Resolution

Great job Robert, I enjoyed watching the shootout...it was very fair and balanced.
Looking forward to next year. Thanks again.


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## Robert Zohn

Thank you all and to the management of HTS for hosting this live event! We had a blast doing this and the attendees also loved the event.

My very special thanks to all who purchased raffles to win the 55" GT30 with all proceeds going to "Making Strides Against Breast Cancer"

My very best to you all!

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

BTW, the attendees voting results of the shoot-out along with the MLL readings and ANSI contrast ratios will be exclusively posted on HTS, my site blu-ray.com and Tweaktv.com. 

HTS will be the very first place to have this information and it's likely to be posted later tonight.

-Robert


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## mechman

Robert Zohn said:


> BTW, the attendees voting results of the shoot-out along with the MLL readings and ANSI contrast ratios will be exclusively posted on HTS, my site blu-ray.com and Tweaktv.com.
> 
> HTS will be the very first place to have this information and it's likely to be posted later tonight.
> 
> -Robert


Excellent! :T

That was a very well run event Robert! I didn't get to watch it all though. As luck would have it I was gone for the main things I really wanted to see. :doh: When and where will the taped broadcast be up?


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## Robert Zohn

Here's the link to download the .pdf file from the results of the audience's ballots of the two shoot-out event days. 

-Robert


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## Hutchinshouse

Looks like I'm getting an Elite....!

Thanks to you and your team Robert!


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## Robert Zohn

Thank you Hutchinshouse. In the next days lots of additional information will be disclosed and discussed. Tomorrow I'll post the MLL's and ANSI on-screen contrast ratios. In the next days we'll have the results of the panel of experts. 

Let me know if you have any questions.

-Robert


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## eugovector

Robert Zohn said:


> Here's the link to download the .pdf file from the results of the audience's ballots of the two shoot-out event days.
> 
> -Robert


So these are base don the calibrated setting, correct? Wow, that LG just took a beating. So much for plasma being the king of Black Level, at least in the hands of LG engineers. Is it possible the unit was faulty?


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## eugovector

Hutchinshouse said:


> Looks like I'm getting an Elite....!
> 
> Thanks to you and your team Robert!


I don't know. The Panasonic seemed to be more consistent in all categories.


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## Hutchinshouse

eugovector said:


> I don't know. The Panasonic seemed to be more consistent in all categories.


I'm sure Elite color will only get better via the next F/W version. At that point the Elite will be very consistent too. The fact that the Elite was voted "king" and I have a very bright living room, the Elite is a no brainer for me.


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## Robert Zohn

Hutchinshouse, ^^ that is definitely true and we're expecting the firmware fix very soon. Thanks to our expert team of master calibrators for identifying this issue and communicating with Sharp's engineers on exactly what we found and suggestions on how to make it perfect. 

I just posted a .pdf of the Onscreen ANSI contrast ratios and MLL measurements for each display in the shoot-out event. I am so very happy to be the only company measuring and posting the true contrast ratios for these highly sought out TVs. Now the public can accurately compare the single most important attribute that makes up the picture quality.

The calibration reports will be added to my site later today.

-Robert


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Hutchinshouse, ^^ that is definitely true and we're expecting the firmware fix very soon. Thanks to our expert team of master calibrators for identifying this issue and communicating with Sharp's engineers on exactly what we found and suggestions on how to make it perfect.
> 
> I just posted a .pdf of the Onscreen ANSI contrast ratios and MLL measurements for each display in the shoot-out event. I am so very happy to be the only company measuring and posting the true contrast ratios for these highly sort out TVs. Now the public can accurately compare the single most important attribute that makes up the picture quality.
> 
> The calibration reports will be added to my site later today.
> 
> -Robert


Hi Robert, I was wondering if you are experiencing any of the color issues on your 70" ELITE at home? Ken and myself wondering because not everyone seems to be experiencing it. How obvious was the lack of color saturation on the HD shootout's ELITE in your opinion? :blink:


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## Robert Zohn

In all fairness DeWayne said my 70" Elite had the exhibited the same teal color decoding error, but I don't see it to the same degree.

David Katzmaier of CNet and Chris Boylan's Big Picture Big Sound VE Shoot-out articles have just been published.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> In all fairness DeWayne said my 70" Elite had the exhibited the same teal color decoding error, but I don't see it to the same degree.
> 
> David Katzmaier of CNet and Chris Boylan's Big Picture Big Sound VE Shoot-out articles have just been published.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> -Robert


Thanks my friend. :sn:


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## IrishStout

Hi Robert,

I was not available for the live shutout but I just finished watching the shootout. I enjoyed it thouroghly. I also wanted to take this moment to also personally thank you for recommending the 60GT30 I have had it for about 20 days and my whole family is really enjoying it. I have it set to THX mode and it looks fantastic. I am sure with a pro calibrator it would look much better. anyway, once again, just wanted to say thanks for all the hard work from you annd your team.

Just wondering if you will be releasing the settings used for each T.V.? I think would be huge value for each person how has or is thinking of purchasing a T.V?


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## NYPete

I was at the shootout over the weekend, and I wanted to share my thoughts for what they are worth. 

First, a big thank you to Robert, Wendy, and the rest of the VE family for every year hosting such a great event and being such gracious and terrific hosts. Also thank you to D-Nice and Kevin Miller for their always excellent work calibrating the panels beforehand and presenting at the event itself. I don't think most people appreciate the hard work and time that goes into this event - it is a lot more than inviting a bunch of people over and looking at the panels. This is the only event of its kind in the country as far as I know, and a great service to people who want to know how the top tv's in a given year compare to each other, and it is also a very fun event for video geeks like us.

As for my impression of the panels, I know we like to discuss (me very much included) small differences and dissect whether one panel is slightly better than another or the tradeoffs between panels, but sometimes we cannot see the forest for all the trees in the way. For me, the big takeaway about the 6 panels at the shootout was that there was a fairly large difference between two groups of 3 panels. The Panasonic TC-P65VT30, Samsung PN59D8000, and Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD were all very, very nice tv's and although I have a preference and some comments between them (see below), I could definitely live with any of these as my main tv and be very happy. They aren't perfect but they are beautiful. I put the other three tv's, the LG 60PZ950, Samsung UN60D8000, and Sony XBR-55HX929 in the second group of tv's that in my opinion are not in the same class as the top group. I would not want to have one of these as my main tv - just too many areas where they are deficient compared to the top group, and when you have them all next to each it really becomes apparent they aren't at that top level.

As for the individual panels, I personally rate the Samsung PN59D8000 as the best overall panel at the shootout. I was surprised at this result, as based on last year's shootout (which I also attended), I expected the Panasonic plasma to come out on top, with the caveat that these new Sharp Elites might give it a run for the top spot based on what I've been reading about them. Well, Samsung has really done a terrific job and should be commended for taking on the challenge of making a better plasma tv. Particularly in color accuracy and saturation, the Samsung plasma is really beautiful. I know the measured results show the Panasonic and Sharp Elite had better black levels and contrast ratio, which for me are usually the biggest issues on a display, but in person I found no fault with the Samsung plasma's black level and contrast ratio (all three of these tv's were excellent in this area), and the color really put it over the top to me. The Panasonic was also a great tv, but it seemed to have a little red oversaturation on people's faces - again this is really nitpicking and it was a great overall TV.

Sharp should really be commended for the job they did with the Elite. Although Sharp was a big player with lots of brand cache in the early days of LCD televisions, they haven't been a real player in making top line tv's in years. They really stepped up their game and put themselves back on the map so to speak. Elite is great in many areas including black level, contrast ratio, and particularly motion resolution - managing to have interpolation but without giving much of the soap-opera effect. The Elite also did an excellent job on reducing blooming, which has been a problem for full-array local dimming LED LCDs. This was really noticeable comparing white text on a black background next to the Sony XBR-55HX929. The Elite still has some areas to work on though - the color decoding error was noticeable, but seems an easy firmware fix. Sharp should be commended for responding so quickly and promising to fix this asap. Also, in addition to that, I agree with several people who have written about the fact that the color seemed de-saturated compared to some of the other tv's. This is separate from the teal color issue, and I am not sure if this can be dealt with through firmware. Also, although the Sharp people are claiming they have better off-axis viewing with this TV than other LCDs, it is still a significant issue. Particularly with vertical off-axis viewing, going from sitting dead-on to just standing up caused a very noticeable decrease in black level and color, at least to my eyes. The best LCD I have ever seen with respect to off-axis viewing was the 2010 LG LX9500 series that was in last year's shootout. So better off-axis viewing is possible with LCDs. I hope Sharp can do some work on these issues for next year's sets. But I am definitely glad Sharp is putting a lot of effort into making a great tv instead of just another tv. For a first model, they have done a terrific job with this tv. Also, as with all technology, there will hopefully be a trickle-down effect so that things learned making these great sets can be applied cost-effectively to other sets in the future. That benefits all of us to get better tvs within what our budget allows.

The most disappointing TV for me was the LG 60PZ950 plasma. The black level and contrast ratio simply were not good on this TV, especially for their flagship plasma. Also, the TV had some of the worst image retention I've seen on a plasma in years. In last year's shootout, the LG LX9500 LED LCD was very impressive. This was an excellent TV but for one problem - on uniform color fields (such as the sky) you could see a distinct grid pattern presumably correlating to the full-array LED backlighting grid. If LG fixed this one issue, they would have a terrific tv. It is disappointing that LG withdrew the 55LW9800 from this shootout, but David Katzmeier's review at CNET makes it sound like LG took a step backward with this TV rather than forward.

Finally, one last observation from attending several of the VE shootouts over the last few years. With some blips along the way (see, e.g., LG) the top group of televisions from the premium manufacturers are getting better overall. Last year, the Panasonic VT25 plasma was the unanimous choice as the best panel in the shootout. This year, significant numbers of people liked the Panasonic, the Sharp Elite, or the Samsung plasma. It was much more of a split vote this year. To me that reflects the fact that the tvs are getting better and we have more choices than ever for great tvs. That's something everyone who is interested in video quality should be happy about.

Thanks for reading my long (hopefully not boring:innocent post.


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