# Need advice on a receiver for a 7.1 and zone 2



## Abs777 (Apr 2, 2010)

I need to order a Receiver for my HT ASAP. I have been toying with the idea of getting a Denon 4311 or Onkyo 5008, but don't know if I want to spend that kind of money. This is where I need to call on your knowledge. Here is how it will be setup.

1. Theater room will be a 7.1

2. I want a second zone that will be ran through a matrix so I can have all TVs view the same thing (i.e fight or game) I also have 6 ceiling speakers throughout my basement that I want to have as surround sound if we are watching a game. IF we are not watching anything I would like to have the ability to stream music to them.

With that said what is a good receiver for this? Will a 7.1 work receiver work for this or will I need a 9.x? I would also like a decent up conversion chip as well.

Thanks guys, I would like to order this soon. Any advice you can give me is much appreciated and I am afraid of making the wrong choice.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Have you looked at Accssesories4less? This Onkyo 5008 is a great price and bang for buck way better than the Denon.


----------



## Abs777 (Apr 2, 2010)

I did see that one and was leaning towards that one. Some people aren't big on Onkyo so I didn't know for sure. It looks like it has everything I want and is almost 20lbs heavier than the 4311.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Onkyo has a bad rap for some reason on other forums. Ive owed an Onkyo 805 that was supposed to be a fire hazard and other issues and have never had one ounce of problems with it let alone it getting really hot.
The 5008 is a solid receiver thats for sure.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

I'm looking at a VERY similar scenario too and haven't made a decision on the receiver either. I have a main theater room with an extension gaming room and wetbar that will have a screen as well. You might have seen the RVATheater construction thread on the forum here, and that is me. 

I have a 7.1 system in the main room and 6 ceiling speakers in the extension room. In the ceiling of the extension room, 4 of the speakers are tied together as 2 left and 2 right and the ther final 2 (over the bar) are just left and right. They are tied to an in-wall volume control and a receiver that is located under my stairs.

I too am hoping to have the ability for both screens to view the same material (game, movie).
I'm also looking for a separation with the audio. For a big game I would like the opporutnity to have all the 7.1 system and all 6 speakers play the same audio. However, I would also like the abiity to separate those out and have one big game on the main theater and a smaller game on the secondary TV with the audio for each separated. 

There will be times that I will only play music in the extension room and not watch tv and other times where I would want to watch TV in the extension room BUT listen to music as my audio.

Do you have a particular matrix device already? I'm curious if these 2 or 3 zone receivers can handle this separate switching? I didn't think they could but I'm looking for a receiver than can handle as much switching as possible until I find the time...and money...to get an appropriate controller via maybe an iPad2 or something.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Most mid to higher end receiver including the 5008 can power more than one zone, you will loose two powered channels to zone2 but if your only running 7.1 then you just use the 8th and 9th channels. Zone 3 is an unpowered zone but you can just use an external amp for that if its needed.


----------



## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Most mid to higher end receiver including the 5008 can power more than one zone, you will loose two powered channels to zone2 but if your only running 7.1 then you just use the 8th and 9th channels. Zone 3 is an unpowered zone but you can just use an external amp for that if its needed.


If you plan or powering more then one pair of speakers off your extra zone then adding a separate zone amp is good anyway.

I would also suggest getting a URC EF remote as well so zone control will be a little more simple.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks for the info. I hope I'm not highjacking this thread but y'all are posting great information.

I was told by an "on the side" theater programmer technician that for ease of use I would want to keep my receivers with similar brands so they will sync up with the main controllers. He was great but was still going to cost me several thousands of dollars for the entire install AFTER the equipment. At over $10k I just couldn't pull the trigger.

He wanted to put in a pair of HDMI baluns and an HDMI switch, a crestron AV2, and run them through a pair of iPad2's as controllers.

Currently I have a Yamaha RX-V465 that I was hoping to use as the external amp that you were talking about. He told it doesn't have RS232 control but that it can be overcome. Not sure what that means.

He suggested the Yamaha RX-V671 but its been some time now and there might be better or more option based receivers out there.

Would you suggest the Yamaha receivers over the Onkyo receivers? Is there any creedence to keeping all the units with similar brands?

At this point I'm just trying to get the pieces purchased in a logical order. I'm thinking the receiver comes first and I'm really thankful for this thread as its almost an exact replication of what my scenario is in my basement.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yamaha makes good receivers but lately they just dont hold up to Onkyo for power output and features. Yamaha also seems to have a big problem with the HDMI handshake issues.
I would not go with an installer just do it yourself. There are many remote controls out there that will control various receivers so thats no big deal.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

Thats some pretty great news. I really thought it would be outrageous to get all the switching and controls figured out by myself. My wife and I are pretty ok with figuring things out from a digital/technology phase but some of this stuff is just over our heads because we dont see it day in and day out. 

So can these remotes run the programming required to control multiple receivers through some type of RF frequency? I guess I was thinking I'd have to come out with some kinda "app" or something with the ipads to run all these things and my lighting sequence. I wouldn't even mind having all the lights on a totally different remote/controller so things aren't all jumbled together.

I'm going to go check out and research more on the Onkyo 5008 now. Do you have any suggestions for controllers that are programmable for the items we've discussed as a DIY??


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

I see an:
URC RFS200 PowerPak Bundle w/ Master Control RF20 and PowerBlaster by Universal.

Is this something similar to what you are speaking of? Any suggestions or others that might be easy/easier to program and have good solid results?


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Harmony 1100 is much less expensive and will do everything you need.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

did you run your lights through the controller as well? I noticed on the amazon website that there is functionality for this. Just wondered what you control with it and if you did run the lights what light switches and products you used?

Thanks so much for all the help! I'm getting "pumped up" now.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I use a Lutron dimmer and so far it works great.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It is weird. We have a quite busy AVR Subforum, yet we seldom have reports of Onkyo QC issues. Contrast this with one of the most popular Forums out there where you are left with the impression that every single Onkyo is cursed. 

Personally, I have had 4 Onkyo AVR's since the x05 Series. I did have issues with my TX-NR3007, but my TX-SR805 and 875 are going strong almost 5 years later having sold them both to close friends who live within 10 minutes of me. The TX-NR3008 I got in June has been fantastic.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## SALESEPHOTO (Jul 5, 2009)

See if you can find a Pioneer sc-05 used,it meets your requirement and at 140 watts per channel its a great bargain at $400-500 used or maybe you can find one in clearance.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

Can you control your dimmers from outside the house? Cell phone, computer from work, etc. I read that some of the Lutron dimmers had a range of 30'. Along with my theater I'm hoping to be able to control my outside flood lights with my cell phone or on a program loop that will allow them to turn on and off at certain times of the day.

I see the Maestro RF dimmers online from Lutron is that the ones you installed? 

Sorry for all the questions but there are just so many different options out there and everything seems to feed off the next device. Starting with the receiver, then the controllers, then the dimmers, etc.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Not the one I have , its just a simple in room remote dimmer nothing special. I dont know much about the higher end ones.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

Are all these items re-manufactured? Are there still warranties with them? I don't have any knowledge of acessories4less and just wanted to get an idea of what kinda company they are. IE...is it super cheap because you'll end up getting something that works for a month and then blows up? I see A LOT of people talking about them but am not sure if anyone has actually purchased anything from them and wondered what your experiences have been with them?

Thanks in advance!



tonyvdb said:


> Have you looked at Accssesories4less? This Onkyo 5008 is a great price and bang for buck way better than the Denon.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

RVAtheater said:


> Are all these items re-manufactured? Are there still warranties with them? I don't have any knowledge of acessories4less and just wanted to get an idea of what kinda company they are. IE...is it super cheap because you'll end up getting something that works for a month and then blows up? I see A LOT of people talking about them but am not sure if anyone has actually purchased anything from them and wondered what your experiences have been with them?
> 
> Thanks in advance!


Hello,
The vast majority of AVR's from Accessories4less are Refurbished. However, they are backed with a 1 Year Manufacturers Warranty and if purchasing an Onkyo, it can be extended to 3 or 4 Years of Manufacturers Warranty when purchased from ShopOnkyo. This is Onkyo's Storefront/Website and their Extended Warranty is treated and handled exactly the same as the Warranty Onkyo offers on their brand new AVR's. 

That is should an issue occur that makes it more worthwhile to replace the AVR, they will replace it with the latest Model. 3rd Party Warranties in this instance would, at best, cut you a check for the purchase price. Case in point, when my Onkyo TX-NR3007 developed a bizzaro HDMI issue that multiple HDMI Board Replacements did not fix, Onkyo sent me the TX-NR3008 instead. Also, my 3007 was a Refurbished AVR and the 3008 they sent me was brand new.

However, on the whole, my experiences with Refurbished AVR's from Accessories4less has been overwhelmingly positive. I have literally helped dozens of friends and family members put together HT's built around an AVR purchased from AC4L and my 3007 has been the only AVR that has needed repair. And this is not even including the countless folks on this Forum and elsewhere that I recommended B-Stock AVR's from AC4L and I honestly cannot think of any that have had an issue.

With AC4L being a Factory Authorized Retailer and one of the largest if not the largest, it simply would be ruinous if these AVR's "works for a month and then blows up" for both AC4L and Onkyo. And with Onkyo being one of the most popular Brands out there, there is simply too much to lose for them to knowingly sell defective products.

Also bear in mind many people do not adhere to AVR Placement Minimum Clearances and things like touching the Ground and Positive Speaker Cables with the AVR turned on. That is not to say that there have not been instances of failures occurring. I cannot remember where I read this, but an insane percentage of AVR's sent in for service were a result of User Error. However, the same can be said of AVR's purchased brand new from any retailer. Also, as we do not have a Storefront, we have absolutely no financial inducement to recommend any product or any store. Rather, we are advocates for our Members. The same cannot be said for the majority of AV Forums who do actually have a Storefront.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Abs777 (Apr 2, 2010)

If you could get a 3009 or a 5008 for around the same price which would people get?


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Abs777 said:


> If you could get a 3009 or a 5008 for around the same price which would people get?


Hello,
I would personally get the 3009. With the differences between the 3000 and 5000 Series being so slight, I would go ahead and get the newer Model. Another reason I would go with the 3009 is that a small number of x08 Series were built with a faulty Serial (IDE) Cable that has caused some units to become unresponsive to the Remote Control, cycle through Inputs, and eventually become unresponsive. Crazy thing is the Cable literally costs a couple of Dollars. However, Onkyo is covering this Repair well past the Warranty and the repair only takes about an hour to do. Provided you can get it to a Repair Center nearby without a huge backlog, this Repair can be done easily within a day. Also, after the Repair has been completed, there have been next to none instances of this issue occurring again.

I also like the new Industrial Design of the x09 Series. With the x05 Series looking virtually identical to the 5 year newer x08 Series, it really was time for Onkyo to change the Industrial Design. And again, the Feature Set is practically identical. The 5000 Series does offer a Toroidial Transformer and a tiny amount more Filter Capacitance, but it really is a small difference. Honestly, I do not understand the Product Planning in respect to the 3000 and 5000 Series with them being so similar while the price differential being a good bit different.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

Thanks JJ!
Looks like ShopOnkyo doesn't have the 5008 but rather has the 5009. More money and I don't see the features to warrant the cost. I believe I read something from you on another thread that said the 5009 wasn't really worth the the money and that you suggested the 5008. Maybe I was reading something else. Am I correct in my thinking about the 5009 vs 5008? 

Anyway, I'm hoping that there is a way to extend the warranty through AC4L. The $1500 is in my price range, albeit on the higher end, as long as it has the remote. I can live without the cables and probably can download the user manual but I don't know if these refurbs give you the remote?

Maybe ShopOnkyo.com will have other receivers like the 5008 before Christmas?


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I definitely said that the differences in Features was so slight between the 5008 and 5009 that it did not make a great deal of sense for a 5008 Owner to get a 5009. What I like about the x09 Series is you do not need to be concerned about the Serial Cable issue that a relatively small number of x08 Series have had problems with.
Also, you can still buy the ShopOnkyo Warranty even if you buy the AVR from AC4L.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

I am new to all this HT set up and I am trying to do it myself so this may seem like a stupid question. I am buying a Onkyo 709 receiver. It will control my 5.2 set up for my HT area. I want to put 6 more speakers in the basement. 2 in fitness room and 2 in game room and 2 out by the pool. I want the ability to only listen to them 2 at a time. I am assuming I will need a different receiver for this ability. I was thinking about running the 2 in the fitness room off the HT 709 receiver? If i do that what woudl be a good receiver for the 2 speakers in game room and the 2 outdoor speakers by the pool. Dont want to spend o ton of money on that receiver but do want something that will be able to power decent outddor speakers as well as have wireless ipod touch compatibility.

Thanks in advance on any direction to take.

PS - i am in a hurry. I am running speaker wire. My drywallers will start wednesday.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

snoopcat said:


> I am new to all this HT set up and I am trying to do it myself so this may seem like a stupid question. I am buying a Onkyo 709 receiver. It will control my 5.2 set up for my HT area. I want to put 6 more speakers in the basement. 2 in fitness room and 2 in game room and 2 out by the pool. I want the ability to only listen to them 2 at a time. I am assuming I will need a different receiver for this ability. I was thinking about running the 2 in the fitness room off the HT 709 receiver? If i do that what woudl be a good receiver for the 2 speakers in game room and the 2 outdoor speakers by the pool. Dont want to spend o ton of money on that receiver but do want something that will be able to power decent outddor speakers as well as have wireless ipod touch compatibility.
> 
> Thanks in advance on any direction to take.
> 
> PS - i am in a hurry. I am running speaker wire. My drywallers will start wednesday.


Hello,
That definitely goes beyond the scope of the 709. You could get a 2 Zone AVR that has 9 Channels. This way, you could devote the Main Zone to the Game Room, and use AVR Power to the other Channels. Otherwise, you would need something more Custom Installer like in Design like Niles. It really would probably be cheaper than to use an AVR, but something more CI would work more smoothly. I will spend more time thinking about this as it is not an easy one.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

JJ,

I am actually thinking about getting an additional receiver that I would put in the bar area. That speaker would control the 2 speakers in game area and the speakers outside. Looking for suggestion on inexpensive receiver that can do that. I assume i will need a 2 zone reciever id i would want to be able to have both on at same time? if so is that complicated? There will be times where both zones would be operating at same time. Also would like the receiver to have internet connectivity. We enjoy listening to Pandora.

Thanks,


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The problem with most inexpensive AVR's is that you can only task 2 Channels to another Zone if at all. Most 9 Channel AVR's do allow you to use 4 Channels for 2 Zones.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

Would an Onkyo 609 be able to control 3-5 speakers inside and simultaneously be driving 2 speakers outside? Curious to know there would be times there are people at the bar watching tv and people outside listening music.


----------



## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The problem with most inexpensive AVR's is that you can only task 2 Channels to another Zone if at all. Most 9 Channel AVR's do allow you to use 4 Channels for 2 Zones.
> Cheers,
> JJ


To clarify that would be zones 2&3 right?


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Yes.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

Ok. I've finished most of my reviews and research and am down to the following receivers.
1. Onkyo 5008
2. Yamaha RX-A3010

Again, I'm looking at having 3 separately controlled audio controls (theater, main room, wetbar). I have two different video feeds (projector and 60" LCD). I'd like to have a combo of running the same video on both screens, and then separate differnet audio between the speaker setups. I've added a drawing to see if this helps with the scenarios. The speakers are in different color "circles" and the wiring is shown to the different receiver locations.


I noticed the Yamaha has a 4 zone setup but didn't run optical cabling between the rooms. 

Are there "Optical" BALUNS or some kinda wireless connection that can be connected between the rooms?

At this point, I can get a Remanufactured Onkyo 5008 for just a little less than the price I can get a new Yamaha RX-A3010. From everything I've read the problems with the 5008 once fixed don't seem to be problems in the future. While having a nice "new" Onkyo would be sweet, the cost just isn't feasible. 

I just want to make sure that...a) the receiver has the connections and features to connect my rooms up the way I need to b) that the receiver is of good quality for the money.

I think the Onkyo is a better receiver, but I'm just trying to be diligent about my review to make my selection.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

FINALLY, the purchase has been made!!

Onkyo 5008
Harmony 1100

Can't wait to program this weekend!


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Very nice. I might have tried out the Onkyo Remote Control before getting a Harmony, but I am sure you have your reasons. I love my 3008 and I really think Audyssey MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT are going to bring a huge smile to your face as it is truly amazing.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Harmony is a connivance nothing more. I for one got mine so my wife and guests would have an easy time with the system. 

My wife's 80year old grandma was able to watch TV with the harmony.


----------



## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

Unless I'm missing something do i have to run an RCA or optical line from the Onkyo along with the subout HDMI to a second TV? I thought the HDMI would carry the audio but it doesn't seem to be the case. i was hoping to use the RCA cables that I ran in the ceiling to carry a 300 disc changer but alas I might have to put that unit under the stairs in the main room since I didn't run any other audio cables in that direction. I did run quite a few Cat6 cables so maybe I could use one of those? Any thoughts?


----------

