# Towers speakers in and in Ceiling speakers out the door!



## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

Hey guy's so I was just IM'ing the wife and after explaining the problems with in ceiling speakers. ( my other post 
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-system-recommendations/36891-before-my-wife-gets-home.html 
she said and I quote "I'm happy with whatever u want to do w/ the speakers sweetie.":yay2: 

Problems:
1.Space is tight
2.There is a fireplace, so I am worried about them being close to that. Though we don't use it often.
3.The sub has to be in the Left corner so I can't put a speaker right next to it with out blocking the window.
4.I think the distance from the TV to the L & R is supposed to be 3ft on each side. That is in the center of the window.
5.The distance between the fireplace and window 10 1/2". Floor to mantle 35"
6.Given the room size, 5.1, 6.1 or 9.1?


Link to floor plan.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/home-theater-system-recommendations/26120d1291846526-before-my-wife-gets-home-home-first-floor.resized.jpg


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

moe69r said:


> Hey guy's so I was just IM'ing the wife and after explaining the problems with in ceiling speakers. ( my other post
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-theater-system-recommendations/36891-before-my-wife-gets-home.html
> she said and I quote "I'm happy with whatever u want to do w/ the speakers sweetie.":yay2:
> 
> ...


I hope you got that on tape! 
Is the fireplace on the wall with the TV?
I would consideer 7.2 simply because that much space could use the balance of a second sub.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Also, if the fireplace is on that wall, what are the dimensions of the hearth?


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Hey Moe, I did a quick drawing showing my suggestion. I made the assumption of where the firplace is.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Indeed. I am waiting on the Responses before making judgement as these are questions which will make a major difference.
Cheers,
JJ


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## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

Dale Rasco said:


> Also, if the fireplace is on that wall, what are the dimensions of the hearth?


Mmm.... maybe I should get it in writing then notarized too. She is really cool, it gives the family a place to be together and she is all about that!
Here is a picture of the wall. It is actually the model home, but it looks 97% the same. 
Also the blue prints w/ the fireplace dimensions and my attempt at a drawing.
It is a gas fireplace, closed in with glass and a fan between it and the mantle to blow air out.

The TV will be on the same wall over the fireplace. A Samsung 55' LED-LCD UN556900.


Thanks for that drawing and the help! The excitement level is going up!


In case i post more actual pictures, all of the floor plans are reversed! So it's a mirror image.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

From the pictures, it looks like something will have to give with windows. Doesnt look like 10" of space between the two. It looks like you have space to the left and right of your tv on the mantle. I'd probably consider trying to find some bookshelves that would work there. You'll also need to raise your tv up a bit to fit a center under it, I think. 

What's the size of your tv and how far away do you sit from it?

If you want to stick w/ towers and not block the window, I'd put the towers right next to the Fireplace and a small sub in the right front corner, or somewhere in the rear of the room. The Aperion 4 series might be the form factor you're looking for.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Also, 5.x would be more than sufficient, IMHO given your seating positions. Put the money for that second set of surround speakers into a second sub or a bigger TV instead.


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## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

eugovector said:


> From the pictures, it looks like something will have to give with windows. Doesnt look like 10" of space between the two. It looks like you have space to the left and right of your tv on the mantle. I'd probably consider trying to find some bookshelves that would work there. You'll also need to raise your tv up a bit to fit a center under it, I think.
> 
> What's the size of your tv and how far away do you sit from it?
> 
> If you want to stick w/ towers and not block the window, I'd put the towers right next to the Fireplace and a small sub in the right front corner, or somewhere in the rear of the room. The Aperion 4 series might be the form factor you're looking for.


Thanks for your input. That actually isn't the tv, it is the model home. The tv will be mounted higher and it is 55"
The couch is a half circle, so seating varies, but the farthest spot is 14 feet.
It's 11 and half inches from the fire place to the window. Unless you are measuring from the edge of the mantle.
Maybe the curtains change the perspective. Here is an actual photo. Sorry its from my cell.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Marshall makes some great points, and I would agree about the 5x versus 7x and spending the money on a second sub. I didn't understand the window factor initially but the picture of the model makes it all clear.


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## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

How will the sound differ with towers placed by the fireplace as opposed to the corners? And do you think the heat from the fireplace will be okay?
I don't have a reasonable place in the rear of the room for the sub.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

My recommendation is 3 identical bookshelves across the mantle, pointed down towards your ears using acoustic foam, door stop wedges, or similar. Having 3 identical speakers up front is ideal for multichannel material.

If you must have towers, I think the Aperion 4 series would fit the bill nicely, sitting between the windows and the fireplace. Putting them outside the windows would be too wide for multichannel effects, but may be preferable for 2 channel listening. For the subs, try to find something that sits below the windows. With 2 subs up front, most people seem to get the best results by keeping them out of the corners. Putting them at the 1/4 and 3/4 point along the width of the front wall is recommended by some.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Placing the towers in the corners will accentuate the midrange and lower bass frequencies. Some of this can be corrected using EQ, but then you'll need to spend more money on an AVR than you might have to otherwise.

We have a gas fireplace and the heat tends to radiate more from the front than the sides. I think you'll be fine.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

eugovector said:


> My recommendation is 3 identical bookshelves across the mantle, pointed down towards your ears using acoustic foam, door stop wedges, or similar. Having 3 identical speakers up front is ideal for multichannel material.


+1

Youd be amazed the performance you can get with a good bookshelf backed up with a solid sub. In your situation it would seem a better solution...


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## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

Marshall and Dale, I really can't thank you enough. I have been at a dead stop and now I feel like things are moving again!
So, basically I have three options.

1. Three Bookshelf speakers on the mantle and 2 subs underneath windows
Pro: Smaller speakers need less room
Pro: Identical Speakers are ideal for multichannel
Con: Problem wiring, I only have one audio cable there. It May be difficult to run more above the fireplace.
Con: Sound compared to towers
Con? The Windows are 16” from floor. I don’t know how large the subs will be.


2.Tower Speakers Between Fireplace and window
Con: only 11” to spare
Con: Space
Con: only one sub could be used in this configuration 


3.Tower speakers on the outer side of the windows
Con: Too wide for multichannel effects 
Pro: preferable for 2 channel listening
Pro: leaves space for two subs in front
Accentuates midrange and lowers bass/can be corrected 

Do I have that right?


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

"Con: Too wide for multichannel effects"

How far are we talking about from the edge of the screen to the front speaker on either side? Too wide for multi-channel is a bit subjective depending on the distance. When I had my 58" plasma on the wall, I believe the mains were about 30 inches from the edge of the screen and sounded great.


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## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

How far are we talking about from the edge of the screen to the front speaker on either side? 


It would be right at 4'8" from the edge of the TV to the edge of the window. So about maybe 5 ft, give or take depending on the speaker.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

moe69r said:


> 1. Three Bookshelf speakers on the mantle and 2 subs underneath windows
> Pro: Smaller speakers need less room
> Pro: Identical Speakers are ideal for multichannel
> Con: Problem wiring, I only have one audio cable there. It May be difficult to run more above the fireplace.
> ...


Re: #1, SVSound's SB12-NSD is "Size: 14” D x 14" W x 14 " H w/o grill" so that may work well fitting just under the 16" limit. One thing to note about the bookshelf speakers, if the speakers happen to be ported in the back, make sure there's enough room behind them.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

moe69r said:


> How far are we talking about from the edge of the screen to the front speaker on either side?
> 
> 
> It would be right at 4'8" from the edge of the TV to the edge of the window. So about maybe 5 ft, give or take depending on the speaker.


I retract my earlier statement then, that is probably a bit far. I would also look at the SVS for the sub and speakers as well. Their SBS sound great and have tremendous quality and customer service is top notch.


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## sga2 (Nov 14, 2009)

Regarding fireplace vs. tower speakers...

Be sure whenever using the fireplace to keep the speakers away from the required clearance to combustibles. Fireplaces can emit intense radiant heat which can damage (e.g., discolor or blister veneers) or, worse, ignite materials within this clearance area. From your pictures, it looks like you might have space to place the speakers and keep them in the safe zone, but it will be close. I don't think this is a deal-killer, but it is something you need to consider and, if necessary, make adjustments while you are using the fireplace.

For a picture of what I mean, see excerpt from my fireplace's installation manual below. Speaker need to be in the shaded area only. These clearances are fairly typical but your requirements may vary and *you'll have to check your fireplace manual to confirm*. 

Safety first! Great home theater second!









Regards,
sga2


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Your 3 scenarios look correct. As for the one audio cable, if they didn't staple it down, you could pull 3 speaker wires using that as a guide. Remember, you'll also need power/HDMI to your display. Do they have those installed?

Where will your AVR and other equipment be located?

I'd say #1 is your best option.


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## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

1st of all GOOD GOD you people are helpful! 

I spent part of last night pulling off the wall plates. Then poking around the crawlspace.
What they did for the one audio cable is use a cat5e so it wasn't what I thought.
There isn't an HDMI. I planned to use a cat5 to HDMI converter.
The equipment will be in the office closet. Which is under the stairs. You can see it in this picture.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/attachments/home-theater-system-recommendations/26120d1291846526-before-my-wife-gets-home-home-first-floor.resized.jpg

There are wires that I am not sure about in the house. I have the diagram they left, but they ran some extra and don't mark them. Some I can't even determine where they are going.
Here is a pic of the cables behind the TV:

1RG56 to the distribution center upstairs
3 that were converted into component and run to the office closet
2 Cat5 one to the closet in the office where the a/v equipment is and one to upstairs at the distribution center

The cables are run inside the walls, stapled.


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

An easy way to identify the two cat 5 cables is to short the blue/white pair on one and either the orange/white or green/white on the other and then you can quickly check the other end with a meter.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

For cat5 to HDMI, you'll need 2 runs of Cat5, so the single run to the closet won't help you. I'd have someone run:
2 more runs of cat 5 (for the HDMI extender, and still have 1 for networking purposes should you need it)
3 runs of in-wall rated 14AWG to the front for your Left, Right, Center
2 runs of 14 AWG for your surrounds

Is that co-ax RG59, or RG6? Do you plan on having sat/cable, OTA-Over The Air, or none of the above?


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## moe69r (Dec 3, 2010)

eugovector said:


> For cat5 to HDMI, you'll need 2 runs of Cat5, so the single run to the closet won't help you. I'd have someone run:
> 2 more runs of cat 5 (for the HDMI extender, and still have 1 for networking purposes should you need it)
> 3 runs of in-wall rated 14AWG to the front for your Left, Right, Center
> 2 runs of 14 AWG for your surrounds
> ...




I thought you could run video over just one.
http://www.hdtvsupply.com/hdmi-over-1-cat5-cable.html

It is rg6
I have cable.
Rears are already wired, so at least that is done.
I was just under the house again. Maybe...maybe I might be able to pull the wire from underneath the house and behind the fireplace, but I am not certain if that is allowed by code.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I'd only ever seen the 2 cable version: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10105&cs_id=1010504&p_id=4065&seq=1&format=2

Guess you learn something every day.

As long as you're using in-wall rated cable, it should be to code as much as any other cable you have running back there. I'd still want my speaker cable in while, and you might as well run an extra cat5 while you're at it.

If you're cable is coming from the distro-center upstairs, I'm assuming that you want the audio from the cable coming through your new HT speakers. You'll need to figure out how you're going to get that audio back to the closet in your office.


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