# Windows 7



## nova

Ok,... So what's the word? Good? Bad? Fair?


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## tonyvdb

I know someone that has been using it for about 3 months and he says its a big step in the right direction but still says that alot of it is just more eye candy. He says its very stable.


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## nova

Yeah,... seems to be pretty quiet. Have not heard much good or bad, or maybe I've just not been paying much attention. Not interested in more eye candy.


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## robbo266317

I've been using the 64 bit beta for a while and more recently the RC.
It works well, no crashes. However if you have a device that doesn't have a Win 7 driver then you can use the one that works in XP, unless you load the 64 bit version of Win 7. Doh... :doh:


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## mechman

I have heard nothing bad about it at all. Coincidentally, I have my copies at the moment and have been running around the internet getting all the appropriate drivers for upgrading. I'm planning on doing it tonight.

I'll keep you up to date. :T

Drivers I've needed so far:

Nvidia drivers
Printer drivers
Audio drivers - Soundblaster
SATA driver for MB
LAN card drivers
Mouse drivers (RAZER) prolly not necessary

I am now running around to see what's not going to be compatible - program wise. I have the Pro version so it shouldn't be too much of an issue. But I'm gonna check anyways.


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## mechman

So far so good. Didn't take too long to install and it looks better than XP. :dontknow: I installed the 64bit version over a 32bit XP.


I've got a lot of installing to do now....


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## Harpmaker

Most of the folks here are adept at computers so this isn't so much a warning as just an article I found interesting concerning upgrading machines to Win7.

excerpt:
"Among the top subjects on Microsoft's support forum is one that has put some PCs into an endless reboot loop when their owners tried to upgrade from Vista to Windows 7. Microsoft has not yet come up with a solution that works for all the users who have reported the problem, sparking frustration."

http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...ld_delay_Windows_7_upgrade_support_firm_warns


Windows 7 endless reboot answer evades Microsoft.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9139991/Windows_7_endless_reboot_answer_evades_Microsoft?


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## mechman

Well the move from XP to 7 was quick and painless. But it wasn't really an 'upgrade'. It's a clean install with WinXP moved to a folder called 'windows.old'. It's still possible for me to boot into it and use it if I needed to or get that errant file off the desktop if needed. 

I always prefer a clean install. The only time I did an upgrade was from XP to Vista and I went running back.

Harp - It's my understanding that this has been from folks who purchased a digital copy and are attempting to use a burnt dvd to install.


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## Harpmaker

mechman said:


> Well the move from XP to 7 was quick and painless. But it wasn't really an 'upgrade'. It's a clean install with WinXP moved to a folder called 'windows.old'. It's still possible for me to boot into it and use it if I needed to or get that errant file off the desktop if needed.


Just to make sure I'm reading you correctly, you are saying that you, in essence, have a dual-boot PC now? That XP can still be used? Interesting... are you given a OS choice at boot or do you have to select XP before shutting down Win7? 



> I always prefer a clean install. The only time I did an upgrade was from XP to Vista and I went running back.


Clean installs are always the best.

I'm not going to revisit the whole Vista debacle, but if a company smaller than MS did that they would be history by now; and perhaps in jail.



> Harp - It's my understanding that this has been from folks who purchased a digital copy and are attempting to use a burnt dvd to install.


I just ran into those articles while searching for other things, I'm not really following the trials and tribulations of Win7 since the only way I might use it is if MS pays me!

The bottom line is that I don't trust MS at all... zero, zip, nada. I would put almost nothing past them if it made them a buck. Vista is the prime example, but such business practices go back many, many years.

There should be no difference between a downloaded digital copy of Win7 and a stamped DVD. To have supposedly misburned DVD's be causing the same problem sounds fishy to me.

I want to again be clear that I truly wish all those trying Win7 the best of luck, but I remain skeptical. It took them years to get XP working right!


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## mickhames

I have installed Win7 x64 onto 3 pc's on my network - HTPC, work pc and games pc. In all cases the installation went smoothly and quickly, there were no compatability issues other than the Logitech 1000i remote controller on the HTPC - I havent spent any time as yet looking into it.

Reports indicate that if a driver works on Vista then it should work on Win7.

Using Win7 on the HTPC is an improvement over Vista and XP media centre. The interface is smooth, larger icons, has better compatability with varying codecs, sharing media over networks, etc
.

My view is that Win7 is a more viable operating system that any prior Windows desktop platform.


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## mechman

mickhames said:


> My view is that Win7 is a more viable operating system that any prior Windows desktop platform.


I agree with that statement. But my experience is a bit limited at the moment.


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## Triode

mickhames said:


> I have installed Win7 x64 onto 3 pc's on my network - HTPC, work pc and games pc. In all cases the installation went smoothly and quickly, there were no compatability issues other than the Logitech 1000i remote controller on the HTPC - I havent spent any time as yet looking into it.
> 
> Reports indicate that if a driver works on Vista then it should work on Win7.
> 
> Using Win7 on the HTPC is an improvement over Vista and XP media centre. The interface is smooth, larger icons, has better compatability with varying codecs, sharing media over networks, etc
> .
> 
> My view is that Win7 is a more viable operating system that any prior Windows desktop platform.


Same here, 3 PCs including main HTPC and so far so good. x64 on the HTPC and x86 for the laptops.

The resolution independent font scaling feature is nice but I have had an issue using it with J. River (had to use XP mode).


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## FlashJim

Three PCs upgraded to Windows 7 and I love it. I'm coming from XP.


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## Harpmaker

Just a general comment for the thread. It would really help if those that like or dislike Windows 7 would explain why in as much detail as possible. :T


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## nova

I agree with Don. A little detail would be great. 
Please convince me that Windows 7 would be an upgrade from XP :dontknow:


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## robbo266317

I thought XP was OK, except it wouldn't hibernate reliably. Win7 seems to do this just fine.


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## mechman

What I like so far...

- The revamped taskbar. The old one has been around since Win95 and had run its course. The new one is very nice and I like the preview windows. As a person who normally has multiple windows/applications open, the new taskbar is a boon!

- As with any new OS, I like the look of it. It seems to be a little softer on the eyes. That was one thing that I always thought Apple had done right - the look of their OS. Of course I was a BEOS early adopter too - call me a nut. I believe there's some sort of Clear Type font or something as well. Makes the text a little smoother.

- Speed. Application wise I haven't noticed a boost. But the time it takes to come out of standby seems to be cut significantly. And the reboot and boot up times are quite a bit shorter as well.

- Gadgets - most of these you can probably get for XP. I know I had sticky notes on XP. But I don't recall it being integrated all that well.

There are more things that you may or may not like. You can see a review of the new OS here. MaxPC never gives any software or hardware a free pass.


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## mickhames

To add to me previous post, the ability to increase the size of the icons is a plus as it makes it much easier to see what the icons are if you have a high screen resolution. You can do this irrespective of screen resolution, except for 640x480 from memory.


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## mechman

mickhames said:


> To add to me previous post, the ability to increase the size of the icons is a plus as it makes it much easier to see what the icons are if you have a high screen resolution. You can do this irrespective of screen resolution, except for 640x480 from memory.


That kind of brings up my first problem with Win7. You can't make them smaller. With 20/15 vision I like them smaller than the average person.


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## Triode

Active Title Bar size in the Advanced Appearance settings can control icon size in the taskbar, but it usually mucks up the systray icons (which can be hidden of course). Not sure how small you can get with the icons.

I use ObjectDock on a 1920x1080 HTPC so I can have very large high res. icons right in the desktop for my family.

Edit - I just made my icons pretty small. It probably also depends on your resolution; this monitor at work is a decent size widescreen, maybe 1680x1050.


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## Triode

Being able to cycle through views in Explore with a toolbar button is great.

The customizable sidebar which allows you to link to custom locations is welcome too.

EVR can be done in XP I think, can't remember, but the Ehanced Video Renderer is native to Vista/7.



> Windows 7 is recommended so that you can use the new Microsoft H.264 decoder ‘Microsoft DTV-DVD Video Decoder’. So to all European readers, Windows 7 N is not the version you have to buy. For Windows XP users, consider upgrading to Vista/7.


http://nunnally.ahmygoddess.net/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

Lots of changes to the audio engine, some have provided hurdles to developers but overall the changes are good. No more K-mixer and I think WASAPI is like a native ASIO for Windows. Don't quote me on that though.



> Audio stack architecture
> Applications communicate with the audio driver through Sessions, and these Sessions are programmed through the Windows Audio Session API (WASAPI). In general, WASAPI operates in two modes. In exclusive mode (also called DMA mode), unmixed audio streams are rendered directly to the audio adapter and no other application's audio will play and signal processing has no effect. Exclusive mode is useful for applications that demand the least amount of intermediate processing of the audio data or those that want to output compressed audio data such as Dolby Digital, DTS or WMA Pro over S/PDIF. WASAPI exclusive mode is similar to kernel streaming in function, but no kernel mode programming is required. In shared mode, audio streams are rendered by the application and optionally applied per-stream audio effects known as Local Effects (LFX) (such as per-session volume control). Then the streams are mixed by the global audio engine, where a set of global audio effects (GFX) may be applied. Finally, they're rendered on the audio device.
> The higher level APIs such as the Wavexxx APIs and DirectSound use shared mode, which results in pre-mixed PCM audio that is sent to the driver in a single format (in terms of sample rate, bit depth and channel count). This format is configurable by the end user through Control Panel.
> After passing through WASAPI, all host-based audio processing, including custom audio processing, can take place (sample rate conversion, mixing, effects). Host-based processing modules are referred to as Audio Processing Objects, or APOs. All these components operate in user mode. The only portion of this architecture that runs in kernel mode is the audio driver (which contains the Port Class driver, the vendor Miniport driver and the vendor HAL). The Windows Kernel Mixer (KMixer) is completely gone. There is no direct path from DirectSound to the audio drivers; DirectSound and MME are emulated as Session instances. Since the whole point of DirectSound acceleration is to allow hardware to process unmixed audio content, DirectSound cannot be accelerated in this audio model. APIs such as ASIO and OpenAL are not affected.


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## mechman

It has color calibration within the control panel as well. :T


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## tonyvdb

Can you tell me if the upgrade means I have to re install most of my programs again or will they still work? I Have Vista pro home 64bit and the upgrade to 7 is on its way in the mail.


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## mechman

tonyvdb said:


> Can you tell me if the upgrade means I have to re install most of my programs again or will they still work? I Have Vista pro home 64bit and the upgrade to 7 is on its way in the mail.


Vista to Windows7 should not mean a re-install of your programs. I believe that was only for us WinXP folks.


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## mickhames

You dont have to re-install your programs and setting if performing an upgrade. There are plenty of internet sources discussing how to do this


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## nova

Ok, been a couple months. Any issues yet?
Really surprised about how little I've been hearing about this version, good or bad. Is it really that good? has everyone become apathetic about new OS releases? or are there just a whole lotta folks like me that really just don't see the need?


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## recruit

I'm using the 64bit Home Premium Windows 7 and it does run quicker but have had some problems with certain software as my Asus overclocking and Utilities does not work now,I suppose in time these issues will be fixed but overall I like it,certainly boots up quicker than before and the new menu system works very well...this I have loaded on my HTPC and not my laptop as I am still running Vists Ultimate, and will leave be for the moment...


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## Sonnie

I want to try it, but have been a bit reluctant. If it really improves on Vista 64-bit, then it will be worth it to me. I just updated to SP2. My biggest complaint with Vista is not the logon time, but he shutdown time. It takes my system 2-3 minutes to shutdown.


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## recruit

Sonnie said:


> I want to try it, but have been a bit reluctant. If it really improves on Vista 64-bit, then it will be worth it to me. I just updated to SP2. My biggest complaint with Vista is not the logon time, but he shutdown time. It takes my system 2-3 minutes to shutdown.


Sonnie - atm it still has quite a few bugs to Iron out before it is perfect as it certainly is not, Vista 64bit ran a lot smoother for me on my HTPC but I am not going to go back now but hopefully not just Microsoft but 3rd party software becomes more compatible as this has been causing me some issues 

Shut down on my PC may be slightly quicker with 7 but not by much.


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## mechman

No issues so far. Working fine on all three machines. One old piece of software wouldn't run for me. But I don't really need it anyway. I've been thinking about running it in virtualization mode but I've never found the time to set it up.


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## Sonnie

I found a download for it on ebay at $70... supposedly with a "genuine" retail upgrade license.

Of course at this price I have to question if it is legal. I emailed the seller, but have not heard back from him yet, not that I will get the truth anyway, but figured I would ask.


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## Rodny Alvarez

I don't know if still available but if you have a .edu email account you can buy it for $29, that's probably why this guy is only charging $70 he got it with the .edu account 

here.........
http://www.win741.com/


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## recruit

To be honest I do think that paying the premium prices for the new operating system is crazy, even the upgrades cost a fortune, I paid £80 for the Home Premium version and also asked for the disc to be sent to me and still not received it although I downloaded my upgrade version :rolleyesno:


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## Sonnie

Hmmm... to buy for $29.99 you are supposed to be a student, which I ain't. I do not mind paying $70, but I want to make sure it is legal. The seller never responded to my email questions. The ole saying, "If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is." keep resounding in my head. :whistling:


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## recruit

Sonnie - you can ask for the serial numbers that come with the Windows 7 software and then check with microsoft whether it is genuine or not, a friend of mine got stung by a similar situation when he ordered a few Vista discs, but when checked via the big M they were certainly not legit...


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## Sonnie

Yeah... but if he won't respond to my initial questions I am sure he won't give me a serial number. However, that is a good thing to ask for with some of the others that are low priced.


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## Zeitgeist

I'd say the biggest improvements of Windows 7 (versus XP -- since Vista doesn't count as an OS!) -- are in Windows Media Center.

MS finally added some new codecs and Media Center is ALOT more usable than it used to be..

My only gripe about 7 is it's a little bit of a memory hog.... like 1.5GB sitting idle.


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## sgate20000

I have been trying to crash a 64bit ulitmate Win 7 version since day 1 of release. I have yet to get it to crash. I have programs that seem to crash a lot within Win 7 (like Firefox... go figure). However, I think Firefox's main issue is with webpages that have insane amounts of Javascript (like yahoo email).

I totally recommend Win 7.


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## clark17

I've been using win 7 for the last 7 months now (beta and RC copies before) now 2 copies of 32bit pro versions. One on my main rig/file server and the other one in my HTPC.

Both are rock solid and I would recommend win7 to anyone. :T


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## 240V

I Beta tested W7-32 and 64 7000 release on a variety of old hardware just for fun. Ran W7-32 on NF2/Barton 3200 with 1G of ram, NF3/754pin 3200 1G ram, W7-64 on NF4/939pin 4600 2G ram. Loads fast, all my utilities seamed to work normal. Gamed on the 64bit rig. W7 requires about the same resources as XP ie:1/2 of Vista resources. Just bought W7-64 pro for new rig.


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## Sonnie

I couldn't be happier than what I am with W7 64 thus far. Leaps of mountains better than Vista. Then again I went from 4GB to 8GB of RAM as well as a pair of SSD drives all at the same time. I have to contribute much of what I like to W7 though. A definite thumbs up... :T


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## tonyvdb

I would have to say that win7 is nipping at the heals of Mac, its the closest they have ever been.


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## JoeESP9

I never move to a newer Microsoft OS until they release the first service pack. I've heard good things about 7 from most people. The techy people (I retired from being a network engineer last year) I used to work with all say it's Vista as it should have been. I'm inclined to agree with them. Can't wait for the first "Service Pack" to be released.


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## 240V

Right Sonnie, W7 is already coded for SSD. Couldn't be easier.


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## FlashJim

I'm running Win7 on everything at home and the office. I love it!


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## luckydevil13

Three PCs upgraded to Windows 7 and I love it. I'm coming from XP.


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## Guvner57

I would definetely give Windows 7 a thumbs up, as a converted Mac user I have all but given up with Windows but seven is a big improvement.


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## shockwave

Zeitgeist said:


> I'd say the biggest improvements of Windows 7 (versus XP -- since Vista doesn't count as an OS!) -- are in Windows Media Center.
> 
> MS finally added some new codecs and Media Center is ALOT more usable than it used to be..
> 
> My only gripe about 7 is it's a little bit of a memory hog.... like 1.5GB sitting idle.


I agree, many of the bugs I ran into with 64 Bit Vista are gone with 64 Bit Windows 7. When I ran Vista I had frequent crashes and problems with my graphics that had since cleared up with Window 7.


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## tonyvdb

I know a number of Mac users that have actually started using a PC again with Win7 as its a huge step in the right direction. Ive been using Win7 for about 5 months now and love it.


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## Sonnie

I think Vista was the beta for W7. I absolutely love it. We are moving all of our computers at our office to W7 Pro (with SSD's as well :bigsmile: ).


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## Freex

Truely is all that Vsta never was, but should have been.

Upgrading from XP there is very little learning curve as to where things are now (unlike the maze of vista)

Everything just works, straight out of the box.

Zero problems - three machines


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## 1Michael

I have been using it for several months. It seems to be fairly stable. From an admins view it is a nightmare.


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