# Computer experts needed



## PhenomeNhan

Where do I start? 

I've been looking at the WDTV2 (Live) and asked a fellow TCA'er(?) his opinions about it. He pointed me to discussion threads, so I started reading/researching/planning/etc.

I'm interested in ripping and storing all my DVDs and Blu-Rays onto a hard drive (already done that with my CD collection) and then purchasing a couple of the WDTVs and 1 WDTV2 in order to watch my movies listen to music in different rooms. 

For now, I wanted to start with 1 WDTV (Live) to be used in the living room, and then purchase the 2 WDTVs later when I have figured out what the **** I'm doing and how I can best set up more than one in my home.

I have 4 rooms that would need to access the central wireless router for one thing or another:

a. Master bedroom (DSL Router and main wireless router is located here). I also have a TV system in here, which includes a TV, Blu-Ray, Directv STB. I would like to add a WDTV here in the future.

b. Living room - I have a TV, PS3 blu-ray (not crazy about its wireless capabilities), Directv STB (will upgrade to HD-DVR), squeezebox 2-wireless. I would like to add a WDTV Live to this setup first.

c. Study room - I have my main desktop here, and I plan to keep the wireless connection to my main router at the moment.

d. Onix demo room - I have all my Onix audio gear in this room and would like to add a regular WDTV here in the future for streaming audio only.


Problem 1:

To start out, I guess unless I upgrade my computer I'm SOL with the Blu-Ray thing. I currently have a Dell Dimension 3000 (Intel 4, 2.66 GHz, 1GB RAM). Most of the BD-ROM drives have SATA connections, and I believe my computer only supports PATA/IDE. Is there a conversion? And if I could find a BD-ROM drive that has PATA/IDE, it's most likely to be very slow.

I can use my laptop to do the ripping if I can find an external BD-ROM drive, but I guess those would be pretty expensive. So maybe it's more cost-effective if I were to upgrade my computer and get a new desktop packaged with a BD-ROM drive?

Problem 2:

If I were to stream Blu-Ray movies, I'd have to get a wireless gigabit router, as well as dongle for the WDTV. My current wireless router is a Belkin N-wireless F5D8233-4. I think it only does 10/100. 

a. Do I need a better router to stream Blu-ray? Possible future expansion would be to download Directv movies, etc.
b. Irrespective of the answer to question a., would it be better (and more cost effective) to get:

(1) a N-wireless gigabit router (my computer needs wireless access since it's not in the same room as my DSL modem), a wireline transmission like THIS, and a 4-port gigabit switch/hub like THIS and connect a CAT5/6 cable to each of the devices. 

Or, would it be better to just get (2) Just the N-wireless gigabit router and a gigabit dongle for each device? $40/device could add up quickly 

I guess I'd have to get a pretty good NAS hard drive, as well 

I know this is a long list of issues, but please help a poor guy out!!!


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## dweeke

Wow, there are a lot of variables in play here. I'm no expert, but I can get you started. Direct bluray rips will require tremendous network bandwidth and hard drive space. You will want to consider compressing the rips to h.264 to conserve both. This would allow you to have the best chance of smooth playback across your network while minimizing space requirements on your chosen server (NAS or computer).

You can easily add a bluray device to your computer via a new internal sata ide card and power adapter. However, encoding will take a very, very long time on your current system. You may want to consider upgrading your system to avoid enduring the painfully slow process. If you do upgrade, your current system could be your server via windows shares or NAS software.

You should get a few files ready to test streaming across the network. A 720P h264 rip (easiest on network and hard drive space), 1080p h264 rip, and a direct 1080p m2ts rip (hardest on space and bandwidth) would be a good sample. You can look at some ripping guides to determine the recommended bitrates used for the encoding process. These files should allow you to determine what bitrates your network can handle. 

As for powerline vs wireless, it will be tough to suggest something since performance seems to vary for each person. I believe a powerline may be more consistent, whereas the wireless connection will vary more for each location.

I hope that gets you started on your research....


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## PhenomeNhan

Thanks for the great advice, dweekie. That should point me in the right direction. I guess it might be time to retire good ol' faithful and get me a more powerful one. Why is it every time I start a new project, I always end up spending more than I want?


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## Mep

I would run cat 5 if possible and not have all that radiation running around your home.

You'll need a good file server, mainly on the storage size. This may require a good case with the ventilation needed for a bunch of hard drives. You are looking at a RAID even though some hard drives are silly big. If you are ripping blurays they still aren't big enough.

May want to take a look at AVS' HTPC forum. Those guys are doing this very sort of thing all the time.


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## Ray3

'Nahn - that is quite a collection of requirements.

If I am correct, the simple pearl is that you want to rip your DVDs and store them on a device that will let you use your network to watch them on various TVs and you are looking for the hardware that allows that to happen.

Having gone down this path, I am happy with where I ended up (video, music and photos).

I bought a EX485 MediaSmartServer from HP. Holds 4 HDs (I have 4TB of storage) and does what you want to do, with a few twists. Plus, it uses Windows Home Server and also backs up my computers overnight. Can also be accessed remotely. The unit also has 4 USB ports and I have since added a Sans Digital TR4U to one of the USB ports (there is also an 8 bay version available) and have 1.5TB HD in it so far. This serves as my storage. 

Networking. Wireless will be disappointing - it stutters. Tried wireless and streaming video just doesn't get there. I ran CAT6 cable and all works well. Powerline ethernet adapters work for some folks, but that seems to be hit or miss.

The front end is key - that's what plays the video, but they each have pluses and minuses. You mentioned the WDTV. There is also the Apple TV, and a whole bunch of other solutions. Forget the PS3 for this application. After WAY too much research, I got a Popcorn Hour A-110 (generically called a network media tank) because it plays just about everything audio and video relating to DVDs on the HP Server. 

Just so you understand, my requirement was to get the movies from the server through the network, into a Denon 3808 and onto the screen of a 58" plasma TV. This solution, using the Popcorn Hour, works 100% for me. They have since introduced the EX495 and Popcorn Hour 200.

MediaSmartServer.net has a wealth of information that may prove useful to you. Certainly, there is a focus on the HP Server hardware, but they also cover much more. I'd suggest you look at the "General" and "Media Streaming" forums to start. 

Hope the info helps.


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## imported_m-fine

run cat5e or cat6 and get a gigabit switch, and a faster PC. The bitrate for a typical BD is 20-40 Mbps before audio and overhead so 100 mbps ethernet is a minimum assuming reliable throughput and nothing else going on on the network. Gigabit gives you wiggle room and is not that expensive anymore. I would not compress the BD's, what is the point of using a BD if you are going to reduce the quality with compression? 

I have thought about doing this type of thing, but in the end, changing a disk every 2 hours is less work than setting something like this up. If you are an old fart like Ray, with nothing to do until TCA gets some subs in stock, it could be a fun time killer, but for normal people, not worth it.


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## Ray3

m-fine said:


> I have thought about doing this type of thing, but in the end, changing a disk every 2 hours is less work than setting something like this up. If you are an old fart like Ray, with nothing to do until TCA gets some subs in stock, it could be a fun time killer, but for normal people, not worth it.


Guilty! However, now we'll have the subs AND the vids setup! Life is good! :clapper:


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## imported_m-fine

Yeah, but you still need to get up and change your depends every few hours.

FWIW, I just dumped about 30 gig of data across my 100 mb cat 5 network and it averaged only 39 mbps of actual data throughput. With buffering it would have been fine to stream most BD movies, but marginal for the high bitrate ones. A 54 mbps wireless net would not cut it in most situations.


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## PhenomeNhan

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll definitely look into running cat6 cables where video will be delivered. I'll leave audio for wireless duty. My squeeze box has no problem with the wireless transmission. 

Ray, I'll look into the HP media server a s well as Popcorn. Mike, I'm probably planning on further upgrades for my LS6s, and since Ray doesn't really have anything to do at the moment, I'll ship him the 6s and will have Sean send him the upgrade kit. **** Ive signed up for Kevin's UFW12 upgrade as well. So, Ray, look for 4 packages to come your way. I'll send you two $65 checks for all your trouble


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## cburbs

How many movies total are you ripping - I ripped all my std dvds with just movie/sound and they range from 4-7gb depending on movie. The TB Drives are cheap now. 
There are a few other popular choices for servers besides that HP. I have to dig them up.


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## PhenomeNhan

cburbs said:


> How many movies total are you ripping - I ripped all my std dvds with just movie/sound and they range from 4-7gb depending on movie. The TB Drives are cheap now.
> There are a few other popular choices for servers besides that HP. I have to dig them up.


I have quite an extensive collection of DVDs (more than I care to count...I'm guessing around 500 or so?)  I'm sure quite a few are floating around being borrowed at the moment. I guess I can start ripping them now and worry about the Blu-Rays later.


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## cburbs

Depending on what you want to do on the data storage side there are many options -
HP Servers
Qnap


Windows Home server that alot of people love.


Linux based -
Freenas
Vortex 
Unraid 


I used to run Freenas for my squeezebox on a old PII 500 and freenas is very light weight.

Then I dumped those and bought an MSI Atom PC(MSI PC) as I was going to run Freenas from the CF Card.
I did that for a bit and than ran into a issue so I dumped it and threw windows 7 beta on it and it has been on that ever since. I also have (2) 1 tb drives in that machine. It serves as my music player and streams movies to my Tivo box.


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## Ray3

PhenomeNhan said:


> I have quite an extensive collection of DVDs (more than I care to count...I'm guessing around 500 or so?)  I'm sure quite a few are floating around being borrowed at the moment. I guess I can start ripping them now and worry about the Blu-Rays later.


A small point that may save you some time later.

You may want to decide on the media server/front end before you start ripping. Some will play a VIDEO_TS file and some will play an ISO. Most won't play both.

The ISO approach (which the Popcorn Hour handles nicely) because it allows you to retain the menu stucture (VIDEO_TS doesn't) is good. Makes choosing your audio easier and gives you the opportunity to use the "scene search" feature.

So, pick the right format to rip so you don't need to do it again.

Also, send all the boxes you want and as many checks as you like. I will regard them as gifts so you don't have the burden of expecting to get anything back. 

:crowd: :whoopie:


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## etcarroll

You can start ripping the SD disks with the DELL 3000, but then it's got to be retired before you start BD processing.

As you should have gathered by now, forget streaming BD wireless, run the needed cables.

Like Ray, I run WHS, on a box I built myself a few years back while WHS was still in beta. It makes a fine media server, and with Win 7 on the htpc running Media Center, the integration is further improved.


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## PhenomeNhan

Ray3 said:


> A small point that may save you some time later.
> 
> You may want to decide on the media server/front end before you start ripping. Some will play a VIDEO_TS file and some will play an ISO. Most won't play both.
> 
> The ISO approach (which the Popcorn Hour handles nicely) because it allows you to retain the menu stucture (VIDEO_TS doesn't) is good. Makes choosing your audio easier and gives you the opportunity to use the "scene search" feature.
> 
> So, pick the right format to rip so you don't need to do it again.
> 
> Also, send all the boxes you want and as many checks as you like. I will regard them as gifts so you don't have the burden of expecting to get anything back.
> 
> :crowd: :whoopie:


Thanks for the recommendation again, Jack. I had already planned on ripping to ISO, since WDTV/2 supports that format, rather than the video/audio_ts files. I did not think about Popcorn, but luckily, as you mentioned, it does support ISO, so that is friggin' fantastic. I hope others will too 

****, you got me, as I didn't mention that you were supposed to send the finished upgraded products back to me  Posting via the iPhone makes me lazy


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## PhenomeNhan

etcarroll said:


> You can start ripping the SD disks with the DELL 3000, but then it's got to be retired before you start BD processing.
> 
> As you should have gathered by now, forget streaming BD wireless, run the needed cables.
> 
> Like Ray, I run WHS, on a box I built myself a few years back while WHS was still in beta. It makes a fine media server, and with Win 7 on the htpc running Media Center, the integration is further improved.


Yea, the Dell does quite well with ripping SD disks, as I've been making some backups with it for a while now. I will definitely need a new PC for BD ripping.

I'll definitely run the cables (2 for now). I'll visit Monoprice and pick up some CAT6 spools.

Thanks for the WHS reco. I've got so much reading to do on servers and such


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## etcarroll

Also, if you did go the WHS as a media route, then look at My Movies, http://www.mymovies.dk/, it integrates into Media Center, and right now I run the client-server version.

However, there is a WHS version that automates the ripping process. I ordered another BD Rom drive from NewEgg on BF for $50 and free shipping, just waiting for it to arrive to upgrade my WHS box.


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## Ray3

etcarroll said:


> Also, if you did go the WHS as a media route, then look at My Movies, http://www.mymovies.dk/, it integrates into Media Center, and right now I run the client-server version.
> 
> However, there is a WHS version that automates the ripping process. I ordered another BD Rom drive from NewEgg on BF for $50 and free shipping, just waiting for it to arrive to upgrade my WHS box.


Nahn,

MyMovies is one choice. I opted to use Yet Another Movie Jukebox (YAMJ). THen I added a skin (Aeon Wall) to give me a nice GUI for the Popcorn Hour. 

Going the YAMJ route, I did not enable MyMovies.

Take a look here for YAMJ and Aeon Wall. I chose Aeon Wall because it does a great job with TV Series. This is a pretty good website for Popcorn Hour / NMT related info.

Also, look for the YAMJ GUI Config Tool (use for easy setup of YAMJ) and the YAMJ Wiki (see the tab).

Finally, this is a pretty good website for related info, especially YAMJ.

This should keep you occupied for a bit. :biglaugh:


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## JazzySmooth

I'm currently using UnRAID for media storage (about 300 SD and HD movies so far) and a HP HTPC running Vista (soon to be Windows 7) and Media Portal / Moving Pictures in the theater, and a WD Media Player (version 1) for the kids stuff downstairs (local storage).

Some thoughts - while I love the WDMP for its ease of use and ability to play almost anything, I don't find its interface to be the best for larger (100+) collections. I shudder at the idea of trying to navigate through 500+ movies, and am mildly bothered by its inability to play all songs of a particular genre. The Popcorn hour (or Sage TV extenders) may have more robust navigation.

For a pure storage solution, I'm a big fan of Unraid - it boots / runs from a flash drive so all your hard drive space is used for storage. You don't get automatic client backup like with WHS, but its pseudo raid is a very cost effective means of data protection, versus WHS's data duplication. You can also use old hardware for it, mix IDE, SCSI and SATA drives, and add additional storage space on the fly. It also has a 3 disk free version so you can try it out before committing to anything.


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## Ray3

JazzySmooth said:


> I'm currently using UnRAID for media storage (about 300 SD and HD movies so far) and a HP HTPC running Vista (soon to be Windows 7) and Media Portal / Moving Pictures in the theater, and a WD Media Player (version 1) for the kids stuff downstairs (local storage).
> 
> Some thoughts - while I love the WDMP for its ease of use and ability to play almost anything, I don't find its interface to be the best for larger (100+) collections. I shudder at the idea of trying to navigate through 500+ movies, and am mildly bothered by its inability to play all songs of a particular genre. The Popcorn hour (or Sage TV extenders) may have more robust navigation.
> 
> For a pure storage solution, I'm a big fan of Unraid - it boots / runs from a flash drive so all your hard drive space is used for storage. You don't get automatic client backup like with WHS, but its pseudo raid is a very cost effective means of data protection, versus WHS's data duplication. You can also use old hardware for it, mix IDE, SCSI and SATA drives, and add additional storage space on the fly. It also has a 3 disk free version so you can try it out before committing to anything.


The HP Server and Popcorn Hour make a great combo. The nice thing about the Popcorn is the ability to (simply) add a GUI/skins that makes the whole movie thing simple.


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## etcarroll

And as we all know - simple is good.

Esp. at our ages.

That Aeon Wall looks neat.


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## PhenomeNhan

Information overload  I'm working on learning/working on 2 other things that I've not done before at the moment, so please bare with me. UnRAID looks like something I may need. I can manually back up the important info, so no need to synch everything up at the moment.

Popcorn Hour is a bit on the expensive side, but does look like it's worth the price tag (C-200 is about $300, so I may opt for the A110 for $215 instead, since I would need 2 more media boxes, so I may just get one Popcorn and 2 WDTVs).

That HP MediaSmart EX485 goes for about $500 or so. I'm guessing a SATA 1.5TB HD goes for about $100 these days. A new computer with BD-ROM will probably run me about $600? 

UnRAID seems to be free for up to 3 drives. Not sure how much after that. Can I run that with the HP MediaSmart, or will is it just made for use with the WHS that it comes with?

I can worry about getting the wireless router, switches, etc. later.

Also, which spool of CAT6 should I get?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10234

Also, any recommendation on which jack to get:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=105&cp_id=10513


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## JazzySmooth

The MediaSmart servers come with WHS so not much point in paying for that and then wiping it and using UnRAID instead. UnRAID is free for 3 drives (I'm still using the free version with 3 1 TB drives), $69 for the Plus version which supports 6 drives, and $119 for the Pro version which now supports 20 drives (was 16). They also offer 2 key packs for $150 and you can usually find someone on AVS willing to split a 2pak taking your cost for Pro down to $75.

But as Ray said, the MediaSmart servers are pretty sweet in their own right. I just like the simplicity and security of Unraid, and had enough spare hardware lying around that I could set it up for basically zero cost.

If you already have the OS, you can build a HTPC with a BluRay drive for $400 or so, or check out the Dell Zinos - with a BluRay drive and Windows 7 for under $500 (no monitor), and they are really small.

As far as the Cat6 cable, if you're going to go in-wall, you should get in-wall rated version. Plus, being that its stranded, it will bend more making it easier to work with.

I've never had much luck with tool-less jacks, prefer the satisfying "snap" you get when using a punchdown tool. I'd recommend the cat6 punch down jacks, surprisingly I don't see any punchdown tools on Monoprice's site, but you can pick them up at most hardware stores.


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## PhenomeNhan

Ah, I'm getting a clearer picture now. Thanks, JazzySmooth.

Can this crimping tool be used:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...id=1050901&p_id=195&seq=1&format=1#largeimage


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## cburbs

Looks good to me.


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## JazzySmooth

PhenomeNhan said:


> Ah, I'm getting a clearer picture now. Thanks, JazzySmooth.
> 
> Can this crimping tool be used:
> 
> http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...id=1050901&p_id=195&seq=1&format=1#largeimage


Yes but not for those keystone jacks you linked to previously. That is a crimping tool, used for these type of ends - http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...d=10513&cs_id=1051305&p_id=179&seq=1&format=2

To use those non tool-less keystone jacks you want something like this http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=8728881&SourceID=k232270 

Or you can try the tool-less versions, but even with them I've often used the punchdown to make sure the wires were in all the way.

For the price of regular cat 6 cables on Monoprice, I wouldn't bother trying to use that tool you linked to for making your own cables for connections between the wall jack and the components. You have to make sure all 8 wires are in correctly and fully before crimping - if either aren't you'll get either poor network performance or none at all. It is handy for cutting and stripping the wire though.


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## PhenomeNhan

Ah...like Chad, I was thinking about crimping the ends for the cat6 run between the wall jack and component (even though were were discussing about the in-wall connections )

I think this punch-down tool (Product ID: 1388) should work for the wall jacks, right?:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=punch-down&x=0&y=0

Actually, the one you linked to at PC Connection is more versatile.

I just realized how expensive the Cat6 PUNCH DOWN Keystone Jacks are going to be


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## JazzySmooth

Ahh they do have them at Monoprice - I guess their search doesn't recognize punchdown as the same as punch-down. Any of those should be fine. I like the impact ones, but you can go super cheap and just get plastic prongs if you're not installing too many jacks.


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## Stereodude

Do not, I repeat, do not put jacks on the ends of the cable. Put keystones in your walls and do a proper install. You will want solid cable for use with keystones, not stranded.

And, buy your patch cables, don't make them. They're cheap enough there's no reason to be making your own.


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## PhenomeNhan

Stereodude said:


> Do not, I repeat, do not put jacks on the ends of the cable. Put keystones in your walls and do a proper install. You will want solid cable for use with keystones, not stranded.
> 
> And, buy your patch cables, don't make them. They're cheap enough there's no reason to be making your own.


Thanks, Seth. I will use the keystones, but why:

1. Use of solid over stranded.
2. Since I'll have plenty of leftover cat6 cables, why not use them to make patch cables? I know the pre-made ones are pretty cheap.


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## Stereodude

PhenomeNhan said:


> Thanks, Seth. I will use the keystones, but why:
> 
> 1. Use of solid over stranded.
> 2. Since I'll have plenty of leftover cat6 cables, why not use them to make patch cables? I know the pre-made ones are pretty cheap.


1) Stranded cable basically doesn't work correctly with keystones

2) Patch cables made of solid CAT6 will be too stiff. Patch cables are generally made of stranded cable to be more flexible.


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## PhenomeNhan

Stereodude said:


> 1) Stranded cable basically doesn't work correctly with keystones
> 
> 2) Patch cables made of solid CAT6 will be too stiff. Patch cables are generally made of stranded cable to be more flexible.


Damnit!


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## Ray3

Another vote for the keystone jacks - very simple and solid.

As far as the HP server goes, do a search on "HP MediaSmartServer EX490" and add promo codes or coupons. Somebody will have deals, including HP. For example, right now Newegg has the 490 for $469 (no tax, free shipping).

You don't want the EX495 - it has a 1.5TB drive rather than a 1 TB drive and that's the only difference for way too much money.

You might also score an EX485 (model being replaced by the 490) for some significant savings (if you can find one). 

The 485 allows for a single eSATA drive to plug in and the 490 has an eSATA multiplier that lets you plug in an enclosure with up to 4 eSATA drives. Nice, but not necessary. 
*

*


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## PhenomeNhan

OK...here's my shopping list for cables and tools (ignore the HDMI switch and HDMI cables, plus the wall plates ($2 total) and punch-down tool ($20) are backordered):

Also, I assume that the punch-down tool should be 110, instead of 66.

Is there anything I might have left off the list?


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## PhenomeNhan

Thanks again, Ray. That will help to narrow down my search 




Ray3 said:


> Another vote for the keystone jacks - very simple and solid.
> 
> As far as the HP server goes, do a search on "HP MediaSmartServer EX490" and add promo codes or coupons. Somebody will have deals, including HP. For example, right now Newegg has the 490 for $469 (no tax, free shipping).
> 
> You don't want the EX495 - it has a 1.5TB drive rather than a 1 TB drive and that's the only difference for way too much money.
> 
> You might also score an EX485 (model being replaced by the 490) for some significant savings (if you can find one).
> 
> The 485 allows for a single eSATA drive to plug in and the 490 has an eSATA multiplier that lets you plug in an enclosure with up to 4 eSATA drives. Nice, but not necessary.
> *
> 
> *


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## Stereodude

I used the tooless CAT6 keystones when I wired my house, so I'm not sure about the punch down tool.

You might want to consider using a patch panel instead of keystones if you're running the other end of all the drops to a central location.


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## Ray3

I believe you can get cables from monoprice that are already terminated/ready to plug in. You need to order by specific length though, so you may not get everything you need.

Seth makes a good suggestion about a patch panel at a central location. Search a bit and you can find one that includes the punch down tool. I bought some longer ones terminated at both ends (100 ft.?). I cut them in half; the terminated end plugged into the keystone and the other end I put into a patch panel. I had to roll excess on the patch panel end up a bit, but this approach saved some punch tool aggravation on the "plug into the keystone" end.


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## Ray3

Nahn

There are some good deals for the EX485 ($418) on ebay (I assume for the EX490 as well) that include free shipping. 

If you have a Microsoft Cashback account and pay through PayPal, the current cashback amount is 10%. You need to purchase the "Buy it now" price to get the cashback.


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## PhenomeNhan

Stereodude said:


> I used the tooless CAT6 keystones when I wired my house, so I'm not sure about the punch down tool.
> 
> You might want to consider using a patch panel instead of keystones if you're running the other end of all the drops to a central location.


I guess with all the tool/tool-less things, I got confused. I guess I can go for the tooless CAT6 keystones, since they are cheaper anyways. JazzySmooth mentioned that he needed to use the punchdown tool even with the tooless CAT6 keystones.

For my situation, I don't think I'll require a patch panel, since it will be only 4 lines at the most that will go into the central location, which will be on a curio(or whatever you call those things) shelf in my master bedroom.


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## PhenomeNhan

Ray3 said:


> I believe you can get cables from monoprice that are already terminated/ready to plug in. You need to order by specific length though, so you may not get everything you need.
> 
> Seth makes a good suggestion about a patch panel at a central location. Search a bit and you can find one that includes the punch down tool. I bought some longer ones terminated at both ends (100 ft.?). I cut them in half; the terminated end plugged into the keystone and the other end I put into a patch panel. I had to roll excess on the patch panel end up a bit, but this approach saved some punch tool aggravation on the "plug into the keystone" end.


Thanks, Ray. I found some here, but it looks like they are all stranded (non-solid). Seth was recommending I get the solid ones. Did you have any trouble with connecting the stranded (if that's what you got) ones with the patch panel?


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## Stereodude

PhenomeNhan said:


> JazzySmooth mentioned that he needed to use the punchdown tool even with the tooless CAT6 keystones.


I didn't need a punchdown tool. I did use a small straight screwdriver to help push the wires a little bit into the guides where needed though.


> For my situation, I don't think I'll require a patch panel, since it will be only 4 lines at the most that will go into the central location, which will be on a curio(or whatever you call those things) shelf in my master bedroom.


Wimp...

Here are my patch panels and other gear in the basement:


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## PhenomeNhan

Stereodude said:


> I didn't need a punchdown tool. I did use a small straight screwdriver to help push the wires a little bit into the guides where needed though.
> Wimp...
> 
> Here are my patch panels and other gear in the basement:


Ah, your version of the punch-down tool 

Nice patch panel. Sure, it's easier to run a bunch of wires when your house was being built. I get no pleasure crawling in my attic in really tight spaces of an already-built house. I had enough 'fun' doing that for multiple satellite drops, speaker wire drops, etc. I certainly don't want to go through all that work again  Besides, my network isn't complex enough to warrant a central rack with patch panels and such. Maybe you can come over and set up one for my future house (whenever that's going to be)


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## Stereodude

PhenomeNhan said:


> Ah, your version of the punch-down tool


Not really. It was just easier than trying to work the cables than with my fingers.


> Sure, it's easier to run a bunch of wires when your house was being built. I get no pleasure crawling in my attic in really tight spaces of an already-built house. I had enough 'fun' doing that for multiple satellite drops, speaker wire drops, etc. I certainly don't want to go through all that work again  Besides, my network isn't complex enough to warrant a central rack with patch panels and such.


I had the same pleasure you did. The builder would not let me run the wires prior to the drywall going up and I wasn't about to pay Brinks (their low voltage wiring contractor) $75 per drop (for CAT5e and no patch panel, keystones upstairs and RJ45 jacks in the basement). The house did come with 8 free drops (phone, cable, or ethernet) though. I ended up with 4 phone and 4 cable. I did pay extra for a conduit run from the basement to the attic to aid later wiring runs that I used extensively for my CAT6 runs.

After I closed on the house I installed 22 CAT6 network drops, 4 RG-6 drops, and I have plans to install 4 more RG-6 drops. At $75 each that would have been $2250 extra. :dizzy: No thanks!


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## Ray3

PhenomeNhan said:


> Thanks, Ray. I found some here, but it looks like they are all stranded (non-solid). Seth was recommending I get the solid ones. Did you have any trouble with connecting the stranded (if that's what you got) ones with the patch panel?


No problems at all. Used the punch down tool.


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## etcarroll

Stereodude said:


> Here are my patch panels and other gear in the basement:


A pair of HDHR boxes - watch much tv?

What front end are you using?


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## Stereodude

etcarroll said:


> A pair of HDHR boxes - watch much tv?
> 
> What front end are you using?


Not that much, but I've had occasions where I needed to record 3 channels at once since I intentionally record 3 minutes extra at the end of beginning of shows. For example, if I'm recording one show 8-9pm and two from 9-10pm from 8:57pm to 9:03pm I'm recording 3 channels. As a results I need more than the 2 tuners in a single HDHR.

I'm using GBPVR to record in the background on my server only controlled by the web server application. I don't use any front end for playback or use the front end on my server. I edit the .TS files to remove the commercials and play them back in Media Player Classic - Home Cinema on my HTPC.


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## PhenomeNhan

Stereodude said:


> Not really. It was just easier than trying to work the cables than with my fingers.
> I had the same pleasure you did. The builder would not let me run the wires prior to the drywall going up and I wasn't about to pay Brinks (their low voltage wiring contractor) $75 per drop (for CAT5e and no patch panel, keystones upstairs and RJ45 jacks in the basement). The house did come with 8 free drops (phone, cable, or ethernet) though. I ended up with 4 phone and 4 cable. I did pay extra for a conduit run from the basement to the attic to aid later wiring runs that I used extensively for my CAT6 runs.
> 
> After I closed on the house I installed 22 CAT6 network drops, 4 RG-6 drops, and I have plans to install 4 more RG-6 drops. At $75 each that would have been $2250 extra. :dizzy: No thanks!


Wow...that's a lot of drops! I probably need to pick up a fishing device. Any idea on how to use that thing for insulated walls?


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## Stereodude

PhenomeNhan said:


> Wow...that's a lot of drops! I probably need to pick up a fishing device. Any idea on how to use that thing for insulated walls?


I'd avoid insulated walls as much as possible. They're really tricky (bordering on near impossible) to get the fish tape though because it tends to curve when it encounters an obstacle. I think I ended up having to use something more rigid in the insulated wall. I only put two drops in an insulated wall. They were much much harder than the others.


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## PhenomeNhan

Got the CAT6 cables in last week, and the WDTV Live should be here today. After going up in my attic, I had to reconfigure where I'm going to do wire drops. Can't do it anywhere near the outside walls, so I'll have to drop it in an inside wall, instead. I even moved my central point setup in my master bedroom into my entertainment center (was in a corner near the outside wall).

We'll see how this goes


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## PhenomeNhan

Cable drops are done!!! Well, I still need to get some wall plates, since my estimation was a bit off (had to visit Lowes on the way home last night, since Monoprice did not have the plates in stock). I had a buddy help me with this since he's got a business doing this sort of work. Actually, he did most of the work, so it saved me a lot of headaches (and time).

I moved the central point to be located at my master bedroom entertainment center. I have 3 additional rooms with 2 wires going into each room. The master bedroom entertainment center will probably need 3 patch cords going to different devices. Oh yea, my smart server will be located here, as well.

Now onto getting a new switch/router. Currently, I have a DSL modem hooked up to a 4-port wireless N-router, which is mostlikely slower than 300Mbps (there's a Vonage device in between, but that shouldn't matter at this point?) 

Should I order an 8-port wired switch or router? How should I hook the stuff up now? Do I run this in the following order:

1. 1 Patch from the DSL modem to the new 8-port switch/router in.
2. 1 Patch out from port 1 of the new 8-port switch/router the 4-port wireless router
3. 2 Patches out from the 4-port wireless router to 2 of the master bedroom devices that will most likely require less than 100 Mbps of info.
4. 1 Patch from the port 2 of the 8-port wired router to the 3rd device (WDTV or whatever) in the bedroom that will be used to stream blu-ray (high bit-rates).
5. The remaining 6 gigabit ports of the new 8-port wired switch/router can be used for the 6 new cables that were dropped into the 3 rooms mentioned above.

I guess the ports on the switch/router will talk to the various devices hooked up to it, as well as the other devices hooked into the 4-port wireless router by IP magic?

Any recommendation for an 8-port gigabit switch/router that isn't too expensive -- say around less than $150?


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## woofersus

Are you talking about a new router with an 8-port gigabit switch built in, or just a new 8-port gigabit switch? If it's just a switch (which would be much cheaper than a router with 8-port switch) then you'd need the router in front, because a switch alone won't route IP traffic. (unless your vonage adapter will handle the routing, which I've seen before) Also, having done extensive tech support for VoIP, I'd say you should definitely keep the Vonage adapter in front of the router unless it causes you downstream network problems. Putting one of those behind a router can cause a lot of headaches.

I'd say your cheapest path here would be to leave the modem -> vonage adapter -> wireless router setup intact, and just connect the gigabit switch to one of the ports on the router. The devices connected to the switch will then be able to communicate with each other at 1000mbps. I got a 5-port trendnet 10/100/1000 switch on Newegg for like $13 after MIR, so you can see unmanaged gigabit switches aren't too expensive. I don't really see a need for a managed switch for what you're trying to do, so even if you wanted 10/100/1000 in the bedroom you could replace the router AND get an 8-port gigabit switch for <$100 most likely.


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## PhenomeNhan

woofersus said:


> Are you talking about a new router with an 8-port gigabit switch built in, or just a new 8-port gigabit switch? If it's just a switch (which would be much cheaper than a router with 8-port switch) then you'd need the router in front, because a switch alone won't route IP traffic. (unless your vonage adapter will handle the routing, which I've seen before) Also, having done extensive tech support for VoIP, I'd say you should definitely keep the Vonage adapter in front of the router unless it causes you downstream network problems. Putting one of those behind a router can cause a lot of headaches.
> 
> I'd say your cheapest path here would be to leave the modem -> vonage adapter -> wireless router setup intact, and just connect the gigabit switch to one of the ports on the router. The devices connected to the switch will then be able to communicate with each other at 1000mbps. I got a 5-port trendnet 10/100/1000 switch on Newegg for like $13 after MIR, so you can see unmanaged gigabit switches aren't too expensive. I don't really see a need for a managed switch for what you're trying to do, so even if you wanted 10/100/1000 in the bedroom you could replace the router AND get an 8-port gigabit switch for <$100 most likely.




Thanks, Tim. My thinking with the suggested route *(leave the modem -> vonage adapter -> wireless router setup intact, and just connect the gigabit switch to one of the ports on the router) *would be since the wireless router is does not operate at gigabit speeds, connecting the gigabit switch to it would decrease the speed that gets to the gigabit switch, correct?

This is the wireless router that I have: 

http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-N-Wire...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260994093&sr=8-1


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## Ray3

PhenomeNhan said:


> Thanks, Tim. My thinking with the suggested route *(leave the modem -> vonage adapter -> wireless router setup intact, and just connect the gigabit switch to one of the ports on the router) *would be since the wireless router is does not operate at gigabit speeds, connecting the gigabit switch to it would decrease the speed that gets to the gigabit switch, correct?
> 
> This is the wireless router that I have:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Belkin-N-Wire...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1260994093&sr=8-1


Said another way, generally, your network will operate at the speed of the slowest piece in the chain.


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## PhenomeNhan

Ray3 said:


> Said another way, generally, your network will operate at the speed of the slowest piece in the chain.


Ah, so which wireless gigabit router would you recommend. Just need something cheap and meets my needs. I would like to avoid Cisco products, as I've never had good luck with their wireless routers and they don't get too good of ratings for some reason.


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## Ray3

I'd get over to Newegg or Amazon and search on the kind of router you want, then look for the highest rated and read the user comments.


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## PhenomeNhan

Ray3 said:


> I'd get over to Newegg or Amazon and search on the kind of router you want, then look for the highest rated and read the user comments.



Thanks, Jack. I've been doing that in the meantime. Just wanted to get opinions here, as they can be more trustworthy. 

I'll see if I can find an external bd-rom drive as I think my laptop should be fast enough to rip blu-Ray discs. It's an HP pavilion dv7 AMD Turion x2 dual core rm-72, 2.1 Mhz with 3GB RAM (but not fully used because of Vista 32-bit).


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## Stereodude

I still like the Tomato capable 802.11g wireless devices. N is worthless if you're just surfing the web on your wireless connection which is all I do on my wireless. Anything that needs any speed is wired.


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## PhenomeNhan

Stereodude said:


> I still like the Tomato capable 802.11g wireless devices. N is worthless if you're just surfing the web on your wireless connection which is all I do on my wireless. Anything that needs any speed is wired.


Nice. Agreed with the surfing thing, but N does allow for better range, esp. that one time I venture into my backyard to do some work


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## Ray3

PhenomeNhan said:


> Thanks, Jack. I've been doing that in the meantime. Just wanted to get opinions here, as they can be more trustworthy.
> 
> I'll see if I can find an external bd-rom drive as I think my laptop should be fast enough to rip blu-Ray discs. It's an HP pavilion dv7 AMD Turion x2 dual core rm-72, 2.1 Mhz with 3GB RAM (but not fully used because of Vista 32-bit).


Actually, Jack hasn't posted anything.

:neener 1:


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## PhenomeNhan

Ray3 said:


> Actually, Jack hasn't posted anything.
> 
> :neener 1:


Ray, Jack, Craig...what's the difference? oke::neener:


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## sandbagger

I just picked up on of these Dlink DIR-655 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127215

I have no complaints so far


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## imported_m-fine

Ray3 said:


> Said another way, generally, your network will operate at the speed of the slowest piece in the chain.


Not really true in this case. Anything plugged in to the gigabit switch, when talking to another device on the gigabit switch will get the full gb bandwidth. The only traffic that would be "slower" would be traffic that flows to or from the older router. Unless you have a very high speed internet connection, or you are trying to move a lot of data over wireless, this will not impact you.

In short, if your server and displays all have gb ports and are plugged into a gb switch, it does not matter what speed your router or wireless is, or for that matter any other devices you have connected.


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## PhenomeNhan

Sandbagger said:


> I just picked up on of these Dlink DIR-655 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127215
> 
> I have no complaints so far


Thanks, Kevin. I'll put that one on the list.


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## PhenomeNhan

m-fine said:


> Not really true in this case. Anything plugged in to the gigabit switch, when talking to another device on the gigabit switch will get the full gb bandwidth. The only traffic that would be "slower" would be traffic that flows to or from the older router. Unless you have a very high speed internet connection, or you are trying to move a lot of data over wireless, this will not impact you.
> 
> In short, if your server and displays all have gb ports and are plugged into a gb switch, it does not matter what speed your router or wireless is, or for that matter any other devices you have connected.


I can try as Tim suggested above first. Hook all the fast devices (server, WDTVs, desktop, etc.) into the gig switch and hook all the 'slower' devices (blu-ray players, squeezebox, dvrs, etc. into the older router). My internet is nowhere that fast to matter.


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## imported_m-fine

PhenomeNhan said:


> I can try as Tim suggested above first. Hook all the fast devices (server, WDTVs, desktop, etc.) into the gig switch and hook all the 'slower' devices (blu-ray players, squeezebox, dvrs, etc. into the older router). My internet is nowhere that fast to matter.


The slow devices slowing everything else down only matters on a "shared" network such as "wifi" wireless or USB. It does not make a difference when you have a "switched" network which is what the gigabit switch is. Each port on a switch has its own connection speed to and from the switch, independent of any the speed of any other port on the switch. If you have a 10/100/1000 switch, any two devices connected at 1000 will be able to "talk" at 1000 even if you have an old printer plugged into another port connecting at 10 mb. Traffic to and from the 10 mb port will be limited to 10 mb, but it will not impact traffic between other ports or their connection speeds. 

The only thing that will slow down the devices on the switch is if the switch backplane is overloaded beyond its capability to pass traffic between ports. On a decent switch this is not possible because the switch can handle all ports at full speed simultaneously (think quality amp with all channels driven rating). Cheaper switches may be limited in internal bandwidth (think typical receiver amp), but your slower devices will not be the ones to overwhelm it since by their nature, they are slow.


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## woofersus

m-fine said:


> Not really true in this case. Anything plugged in to the gigabit switch, when talking to another device on the gigabit switch will get the full gb bandwidth. The only traffic that would be "slower" would be traffic that flows to or from the older router. Unless you have a very high speed internet connection, or you are trying to move a lot of data over wireless, this will not impact you.
> 
> In short, if your server and displays all have gb ports and are plugged into a gb switch, it does not matter what speed your router or wireless is, or for that matter any other devices you have connected.


This was my thought process as well. The devices connected to the gigabit switch will have a 10/100/1000 connection to the switch, and therefore each other, while their connection to the cloud will be restricted to 10/100. This doesn't matter unless you have greater than a 100mbps internet connection. Likewise, current wireless devices are restricted to well below 100mbps speeds, so that won't matter either. (unless you want to upgrade from 802.11b/g to 802.11b/g/n in which it only makes sense to buy a router with a gigabit switch)

The devices connected to the old router would be limited to 10/100 speeds, which will be an impediment only if those devices need to communicate with a device connected to the gigabit switch. In this case the higher speeds will only really matter with computers that need to transfer files back and forth, and any devices that will be streaming media over the network.


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## PhenomeNhan

Thanks for your explanations, Matt & Tim. Understood now 

I guess I got a quick course in file sharing over my home network. I got the WDTV Live to read files off my desktop and laptop, but it couldn't make heads or tails of my Buffalo standalone NAS drive. I'll try to figure it out later. It's able to see the folders and such, but tells me that the files (ISO, mp3, jpg, etc.) are not supported, which is not correct, so something is up (run-on sentence there, btw 

I ordered a gigabit switch (thanks for the advise, Tim & Kev):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127082

as well as this external BD-ROM:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827249040


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## PhenomeNhan

This is just great! My HP EX490 MediaSmartServer is basically hosed  I spent the last 3 days with HP and the best they can do was to offer a replacement for the hard drive that came with the server. I told them I'll try Amazon first to see if they can provide an exchange with a new one. I just got off the phone with Amazon, and they will have the proper department that handles computers investigate the issue and call me back. At best, it will be another week before I can receive my new server.

I'll have to see if there's a way I can copy the files I have on the server's HDD over to one of my new (bigger) HDDs. It's about 200 GB of data that took quite a while to copy over from my NAS (for some reason even copying from that Buffalo NAS is extremely slow). Although the NAS still has the info I copied over, I'd rather not attempt to copy the info again to the new Server HDD. Of course going this route may result in more frustration


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## PhenomeNhan

Just great. All my data is gone now from the server HDD  I guess doing the restore at some point wiped it away. I'm back to having to get data off the friggin' NAS drive now


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## Ray3

Soooooo - where are you at with this now?


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## woofersus

Still copying perhaps?


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## PhenomeNhan

Ray3 said:


> Soooooo - where are you at with this now?





woofersus said:


> Still copying perhaps?


Haha...no...The new server is back up and running. It is unable to backup my desktop's data for some reason (running Windows XP on the laptop).

I'll need a 2TB drive pretty soon as I'm quickly running out of space between 2 computers and the 1TB drive on the server  I'll be retiring the NAS as it takes up too much physical space and is too slow. I can probably let my dad use it on his setup.

I might have to give Popcorn Hour a try if WDTV can't play my blu-ray files without all the jitter


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