# In The Market For A Replacement Sub



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Hello All,

Woke up this morning after a good night's sleep and got ready for the day, jumped on HTS to post gaming news and while doing this I like to listen to my favorite tunes. Everything was going good till I hit play, there was a loud pop and my 6i was dead so I unplugged the sub and checked the fuse...it had blown so I just replaced it but when I plugged everything back up and flipped the power switch it blew the second fuse.

Now I thought it probably was just a defective fuse so I replaced it again and again it blew on power-up after that I have come to the assumption that the plate amp has an issue. The 6i has been discontinued and replacing the PSB plate amp cost just about as much as buying a new sub, so now I'm the market for a sub to replace this one and since most of my fellow staffers and forum members have more experience in this area than myself so I'm turning to you guys for advice.

The room for the new sub measures 14' 10" L x 10' 10" W x 9' H there are no left corners due to openings, the front left opening leads in an unused bedroom that measures 9' 11" L x 8' 3" W x 9' H. The rear left opening leads to a hallway that measures 10' L x 3' 3" W x 9' H as for budget I'm looking at $800 for a single sub at the moment, I have no brand preference or if it's sealed or ported I'm just looking for best performance for my buck. 

Thank You

Ares


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Were you satisfied with the performance of the SubSonic 6i?


----------



## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Why not a pair of Epik Legends?

Or a Rythmik F12?


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Hello Mike,

The 6i was a decent performer but I always felt I could have done better, it seemed to perform well with music and lacked that oomph when it came to movies.


I have thought about Epik since they are basically in my backyard but haven't seen reviews on the legend, I"ll have to check into rythmik F12.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

A SVS PC12-NSD would be within your budget. It would definitely do justice to movies compared to the SubSonic 6i which has little output below 30 hz.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_nsd.cfm


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

I have been drooling...I mean looking at PC12, I was wondering if this room of mine is a problem child, since it has no left corners and makes sub placement rather limited I not sure if there is one out there that can pressurize this room the way it should.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

There are subs like the SVSPB13U that could but its out of your price range. Anything is possible if the price is right :spend:
The PC12 is a great choice


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Ares said:


> Hello Mike,
> I have thought about Epik since they are basically in my backyard but haven't seen reviews on the legend, I"ll have to check into rythmik F12.


I must say that the svs I had pc12nsd was a good performer for the size and price, but I think you'll need more displacement/output to pressurize an open room. The empire is at the top of your budget, and since you don't have to ship then you'll only have an add'l $80 or so for tax. They might even give you a deal if you contact them and tell them: 'Yeah, I'm ARES from HTS'. They'll probably bow and submit to whatever price you offer to pay. :devil:

If you'll consider diy, that CSS xbl2 15" will be available right around the corner...:bigsmile:


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

If it was just that simple Glen, adding in all the figures from the hallway and the spare bedroom it's just under 2500 cu ft. So something in the range of the Empire would do a better job than the PC12 for this room.


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey Tony, if you own your home an IB could fit your budget with a little wait/saving...I'd install one in mine if I didn't have my current sub system. Two Fi IB3 18" and a proamp with wood comes awful close to your budget and would probably meet your spl/sound quality needs  

Just throwing out suggestions...I don't have experience with the new SVS nor the Epik, I have a 'cavernous' acting room (ie low gain) and it demands a lot of displacement to come close to what others have described in smaller/closed off rooms. I just figure that the Epik will be no slouch in travel and when you add the dual cone surface area, both of which are quite larger than SVS's lone 12.5", well, you get the idea. I presume the SVS may dig deeper while the Epik may obtain higher spl while going low enough to satisfy, just my thinking.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

ironglen said:


> Hey Tony, if you own your home an IB could fit your budget with a little wait/saving...I'd install one in mine if I didn't have my current sub system. Two Fi IB3 18" and a proamp with wood comes awful close to your budget and would probably meet your spl/sound quality needs
> 
> Just throwing out suggestions...I don't have experience with the new SVS nor the Epik, I have a 'cavernous' acting room (ie low gain) and it demands a lot of displacement to come close to what others have described in smaller/closed off rooms. I just figure that the Epik will be no slouch in travel and when you add the dual cone surface area, both of which are quite larger than SVS's lone 12.5", well, you get the idea. I presume the SVS may dig deeper while the Epik may obtain higher spl while going low enough to satisfy, just my thinking.



I do own the house but it's the wife that runs the place, don't know how that happened. I believe that the Epik legend has the same surface area as an 18 and the Empire is equivalent to a 21.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Not having a sub is no fun and I got to thinking would hooking up an external amp be the best bet at this moment to get her working again? I thought of using the Behringer ep2000 for the job would there be any potential problems that I might not see?


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

The only issue I can figure is if yout sub cabinet is ported, then it might need a hpf to protect from overexcursion, otherwise, connect it, and just use the gain judiciously. I think that's a great idea, and can let you save for the replacement sub you really want.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

The 6i has 2 2 5/8" ports in the front, I assume that HPF is a High Pass Filter, don't most of the amps have something like that built in?


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Yeah, if it's the stock amp it probably has one, but the ep amp will not. If the ep amp has one, it might be a 30hz hpf that can be activated via the rear panel dip switches. The manual might specify for your model. If your mains aren't substantial, your sub will probably help even with the 30hz hpf.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

I took a look at the EP2000 and your right it has a low cut filter of 50Hz and 30Hz there is a model the Behringer EPX2000 which has a crossover switch that allows you to separate the highs and lows (100Hz or Full-Range). So would the EPX2000 be something to consider over EP2000 since it has this switch. Bear with me Glenn when comes to certain aspects of the audio world I'm as dense as a 300 yr old oak door.


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey, no problem, but I'll be hitting you up if/when I ever get a PS3 :heehee:

I take it that you have an ep2000, but are wondering if the epx2000 would better suit your needs? If you have the ep2000, I was thinking you could configure the dip switches to implement the 30hz hpf and run the sub off one of the ep channels, it should work just fine.  Otherwise, I'm not following you.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

I have yet to buy an external amp but have been considering it as an option, I have the mains crossed over at 60Hz so if the dip switch is set at 30Hz hpf will there be a gap is my question.


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

The receiver is actually low passing 60hz and below, so you would be sending the amp 60hz and below, but with the amp's hpf the sub would receive 30-60hz. Depending on the order or steepness of the filter, it may reinforce a bit above and below that range, say 20-70hz while the mains handle the upper freqs.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Ok got it thanks Glen, I have been on a mission to find the right amp I have check out the following 











Behringer EP2000










Behringer EPX2000










Crown XLS 1000 DriveCore Series










Crown XLS 1500 DriveCore Series










QSC GX3










QSC GX5
Any advice you can give Glen or anyone else would be most appreciated remember I'm an oak door here.


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

My 2¢ would be to go for the quality of Crown or QSC over Behringer. Especially if you plan on keeping the amp for a while.


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

I defer to the Tesser on that subject :T


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

tesseract said:


> My 2¢ would be to go for the quality of Crown or QSC over Behringer. Especially if you plan on keeping the amp for a while.


Thanks for the input Tesseract, I do plan on keeping the amp til the wheels fall off so to speak now the question remains which one to choose since the four are pretty much in the $299-$399 range. I know if I bridge the Crowns the output would exceed the factory amp in RMS, Dynamic and Peak, whereas the QSC GX3 one channel driven will exceed two of the three and the GX5 will do the same as the Crowns. So I have a few questions1) Having that much power is there a possibility of me damaging the driver?

2) How would I rewire the sub to be able to use the external amp? I was thinking of wiring the driver to one of the input binding posts that's on the amp, would this work?
​P.S. 

This just came to me if I'm bypassing the subs crossover and using the receiver to handle it then why would I need an amp with a crossover? Wouldn't the amp just amplify the signal that's routed to it? (Ex 20Hz-80Hz)


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

How about this instead? It's on sale, half price, and you wouldn't have to worry about over driving the PSB.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-804

I can't find any pictures of the back of your sub to see if hacking the Dayton into the box is feasible.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

The plate amp for the 6i is 8"W x 10"H so I guess the dream of an external amp is dead, on a side note I talked to Saturday Audio Exchange today thinking I may have to bit the bullet but they won't just sell me the amp that want me to lug the 6i over there. IMO this doesn't make sense I'm out of warranty so there should really be no reason for me to lug it over there since it just the amp. 

Here's a look at the back of the PSB 6i


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Makes sense to me, then they can hit you with a labor fee. :spend:

Have you tried calling PSB directly?


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

tesseract said:


> Makes sense to me, then they can hit you with a labor fee. :spend:
> 
> Have you tried calling PSB directly?


Yeah I had the same thought but I can do without the labor cost, I have posted up on PSB's Lounge area and haven't gotten a response yet and it's going on day two since I posted hopefully I'll hear from them before the weekend.


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

No, you can do the labor yourself. I would call PSB if no answer is to be had on their board.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

I haven't received a reply from PSB via the support center so I'll be giving them a call later this morning and see what they say then I'll report back.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Well I have heard back from PSB they said for repalcment parts and or service I need to go back to the dealer. If you look back a few posts you'll see that the dealer want's me to bring in the sub, but all I want is a simply answer.... how much for a new plate amp?


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Ares said:


> Well I have heard back from PSB they said for repalcment parts and or service I need to go back to the dealer. If you look back a few posts you'll see that the dealer want's me to bring in the sub, but all I want is a simply answer.... how much for a new plate amp?


I would tell them that you just want the amp and are fully capable of swapping them out yourself. If they don't go for it, could you try another dealer? Somebody should be willing to sell you an amp.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

I'll have to call Saturday Audio again and see what the amp will cost me, as far as other authorized dealers there are four and two of the four are custom installers only.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

Gave S.A. a call yesterday about a replacement the guy I talked to couldn't tell me what a replacement would cost at that moment and to give him a couple days to find out. I came home this afternoon and received a message from Greg over at S.A. about pricing so I gave him call, he told me I had three options 



A refurb with a scratch on the plate for $102
A refurb with no cosmetic damage for $137
A brand new straight from the factory amp for $371 and change.
I asked what was the warranty on the refurbs he said he wasn't sure and would give me a call back to let me know. 

P.S. 

Just got off the phone with Greg and here's the deal with the new amp I'll get 90-days and for the refurbs it's 30-days, whats a guy to do?


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

For an older used sub, I'd get one of the refurbs.


----------



## Ares (Nov 23, 2009)

tesseract said:


> For an older used sub, I'd get one of the refurbs.


That was my thinking as well, I'll just take the one with the scratch since at this point the sub is almost 2yrs old and plus nobody will be able to see the back of the sub anyway. I figure the refurb should at least hold her over till the end of the year then it's out with the old and in with the new, so I'll like to thank all of you for your help and a big thank you to both Glen and Tesseract for putting up with my limited knowledge in this area.


----------

