# Center Speaker (Designed as Vertical, can I use Horizontally?)



## jimbodeako (Mar 9, 2013)

Center Speaker (Designed as Vertical, can I use Horizontally?)

I have a budget Home Theater system. With the help of some knowledgeable people on this forum you helped me upgrade my speakers. I have 4 Sony SSf-5000 Floor Standing speakers for fronts and backs, and was looking for a Sony center. They didn't have much too choose from, so someone mentioned getting the Sony SS-B1000 Bookshelf speakers, which I then bought. Obviously I am going to use just one but was wondering if I could lay it down horizontally. Would that hurt the speaker and/or would I have any major audio difference from doing this? Did a Google search and got answers ranging from "Hell NO!" to "Sure if it sounds OK to you.".

I have more options setting it up horizontally, although I could set it up vertical. Would involve some rearranging of my cable box, ps3 etc. but no big deal, although horizontal would look better and more natural where I would like to put it. 

SS-B1000 Bookshelf Speakers Info:

Frequency Response : 80 - 50,000 Hz
Impedance : 8 Ohms
Power Requirements : 120W
Quantity (Packaged) : 2
Quantity of Tweeters : 1
Quantity of Woofer(s) : 1
Sensitivity : 87 dB
Speaker Terminal Type : Push Type
Tweeter Size : 1" (2.5 cm)
Woofer Size(s) : 5 1/4" (13cm)

Picture below:


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

You can do what you want in the privacy of your home but I would not do it. There are many threads/posts explaining the irregularities in dispersion that result from having the drivers side by side.

Why not just stand it up? It is pretty short.


----------



## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

Would laying the speaker horizontally "hurt" it? No.

Would it sound better/worse than having it vertical? Dunno. Try it vertical, then try it horizontal, and go with the orientation that works best for you / sounds best to you.


----------



## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

I would try both but it seems like the tweeter will be firing off to what ever side it's on more than the other. My setup we have our furniture on all sides at least I get the sweet spot, it's a living room setup. I have seen some members use larger vertical center channels but only upright.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

B- one said:


> I would try both but it seems like the tweeter will be firing off to what ever side it's on more than the other.


It is not the asymmetry. It is the horizontal relationship of the drivers that causes frequency response irregularities. Ever notice that (almost) all competent speakers have vertically-arrayed drivers?


----------



## jimbodeako (Mar 9, 2013)

Looks like I will stand it up like it was meant to be. Thanks for the replies!


----------



## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

jimbodeako said:


> ... someone mentioned getting the Sony SS-B1000 Bookshelf speakers, which I then bought. Obviously I am going to use just one but was wondering if I could lay it down horizontally.
> 
> I have more options setting it up horizontally, although I could set it up vertical. Would involve some rearranging of my cable box, ps3 etc. but no big deal, although horizontal would look better and more natural where I would like to put it.
> 
> ...


Just another thought to consider, if you have 2 speakers, why not lay both horizontally and wire them in parallel or series to the center output channel on your AVR. You could lay them with the tweeters toward the center (probably best) or towards the outside. Either configuration should give you a symetrical arrangement and possibly sound better than a single enclosure.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

AVoldMan said:


> Just another thought to consider, if you have 2 speakers, why not lay both horizontally and wire them in parallel or series to the center output channel on your AVR. You could lay them with the tweeters toward the center (probably best) or towards the outside. Either configuration should give you a symetrical arrangement and possibly sound better than a single enclosure.


Symmetry is not the problem (as I said above). The problem is due to the horizontal displacement of the drivers in their frequency band overlaps. Your suggestion will simply compound the problem, not resolve it.


----------



## HopefulFred (Jan 20, 2011)

Remember that when the speaker designer was testing the speaker, he or she listened to it vertically. He knew that the overlap problems Kal refers to were happening, but since he wasn't listening off axis in that direction (such as sitting on the floor while the speaker sits on a stand four feet above his head) and trusted that the customers wouldn't either, he could reasonably ignore the problem and save the buyer a bunch of money - concentrating instead on the features and response measurements that sound good and sell speakers. By turning the speaker sideways, you put any lister who sits off axis horizontally in that same weird spot the designer decided to ignore.


----------



## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Symmetry is not the problem (as I said above). The problem is due to the horizontal displacement of the drivers in their frequency band overlaps. Your suggestion will simply compound the problem, not resolve it.


I'm not sure what you mean by "horizontal displacment _(arrangement)_ of the drivers"? I do know that many center speakers are designed with a mirror image around the tweeter location for minimizing or eliminating enclosure diffraction effects. This will not reduce the interference pattern caused by multiple speaker tranducers, but may smooth things out vs a single horizontal speaker enclosure. The multiple tweeters may help minimize the lobing effects btween the mid and tweeter drivers. If these speakers are readily avaiable for the OP then wiring and trying this dual configuration as well as a normal single vertical oreintation would be worth a try. I would really like to see a REW frequency plot of both speaker configurations and detailed listening impressions.

Note: this definition was found at About.com and indicates a vertical orientation for best results, however this is used commonly in a horizontal arrangement for center speakers.

_Definition: A *D'appolito array *is a speaker design pioneered by Dr. Joseph D'appolito in the early 1980s. A D'appolito array consists of a single tweeter with two midrange drivers arranged above and below the tweeter in a *vertical alignment*. The benefit of a D'appolito array is reduced interference between the tweeter and midrange drivers, which produces very smooth phase response. The design is also referred to as M-T-M (midrange-tweeter-midrange) although not all speakers with this driver alignment are D'appolito arrays. A true D'appolito array requires a very accurate crossover to achieve the desired results. 

Examples: 
A D'Appolito speaker array produces very smooth phase response in the midrange and higher frequencies. _


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

AVoldMan said:


> I'm not sure what you mean by "horizontal displacment _(arrangement)_ of the drivers"? I do know that many center speakers are designed with a mirror image around the tweeter location for minimizing or eliminating enclosure diffraction effects. This will not reduce the interference pattern caused by multiple speaker tranducers, but may smooth things out vs a single horizontal speaker enclosure. The multiple tweeters may help minimize the lobing effects btween the mid and tweeter drivers. If these speakers are readily avaiable for the OP then wiring and trying this dual configuration as well as a normal single vertical oreintation would be worth a try. I would really like to see a REW frequency plot of both speaker configurations and detailed listening impressions.
> 
> Note: this definition was found at About.com and indicates a vertical orientation for best results, however this is used commonly in a horizontal arrangement for center speakers.
> 
> ...


Nothing personal but this has been discussed all over for years and, I suspect, the information existsd here on HTS.

The very advantage of the D'Appolito array is that it trades vertical dispersion consistency for horizontal regularity as the latter is most important for off-axis listening. So, if you turn it horizontally, you completely thwart the design target. The fact that so many so-called "dedicated" center speakers are sold that way is just evidence of marketing to take advantage of general ignorance in the market and the importance of convenience.

This is also clearly described in Toole's "Sound Reproduction" on pages 399-400.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok, this is a crude drawing but shows what can happen by turning a speaker on its side. Particularly if the tweeter is not mounted off center. 








You can see that its a bit over exaggerated but the person sitting to the left of center will loose most of the high frequencies when placed on its side.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> Ok, this is a crude drawing but shows what can happen by turning a speaker on its side. Particularly if the tweeter is not mounted off center.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


More significant is the cancellation creating suckouts where the separate sources are out of phase due to their displacement.


----------

