# First Home Theater System



## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

Hello, I stumbled upon this forum while looking for home theater information and have been doing a lot of reading and research lately. Basically I've just got my first real job and now that I have income I'm looking to build a home theater system. 

I'm looking to begin building a fairly versatile system to watch TV/movies, play video games, and listen to music. As of right now I've got a LG 47" LG LED LCD with an Xbox 360 and HD DVR, and will be adding a 3D Blu Ray player in the next month or so. So far I have only been looking at a receiver and the front left and right speakers. I'm leaning towards an Onkyo TX-NR717 paired with a couple of Klipsch F-20 floor-standing speakers. I'm thinking this would be a good starting point and leave room for me to upgrade to back speakers, and then a center and sub.

So essentially I want to know what you guys think and what other alternatives/suggestions there may be. I'm looking to stay roughly in this price range for now (~$500 for a receiver and ~450 for the speakers).

Also I had one quick (stupid) question. When hooking up the receiver you would run all devices into the HDMI inputs and use the single HDMI output to connect, in this case, the TV? So it acts as the input selection normally on the TV remote?

Happy Thanksgiving and thanks in advance.


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

Hello and welcome,

I think you would be off to a good start. Now, as you will notice, lots of helpfull ppl will come on a give you their versions of what they'd get with your budget and I'm sure they'll all be very good advice. 

I'm not immune to this so here I go. The only thing I would change is instead of the 717, I'd try to get my hands on last years 809. It is a superior receiver, has pretty much all the same features as the 717, more power etc. But the one thing that it is clearly superior with will be the Audyssey version it comes with. MultEQ XT for the 809 vs. 2EQ for the 717.

I'm not sure of your level knowledge in this wonderful hobby but in simple terms, the 809 will sound better. Not that the 717 would sound bad, not at all, but the 809, because of it's better version of Audyssey, will yield superior sonic results (in general anyway).

Either way, all good choices.

Second part of your post, not a stupid question and yes, you have it right.

cheers


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

oh, I forgot to mention, with a little patience and hunting, you can probably get the 809 for the same or less money than the 717 as it is last year models

cheers


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Yoda nails it. Truth be told, last years TX-NR709 is far more preferable to me than the 717 due to the 709 offering Audyssey MultEQ XT to the $100 more expensive 717's 2EQ.

I really like Klipschs and they sound great with HT. Newegg is a smoking deal on the $1500 Icon WF-35's for $600 pair. Here is a link:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780082
I recommended them to several friends locally and they sound great and are very nice looking speakers to boot. The Wood Finish is beautiful. The matching CC is available for $179 and retails for $499. Here is the link:http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882780086
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

And yes the AVR will handle all HDMI Switching where you can connect a single HDMI input to the TV. Better still, the AVR's you are considering offer excellent Video Processing that can really help with sub HD resolution. Also, welcome to HTS.


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks for the insight, I've been looking at the differences between the Audyssey 2EQ and MultEQ XT, and the increase in the resolution allows for better at lower frequencies. So I understand it as being important primarily for equalizing a subwoofer, whenever I decide to purchase one. Some even stated that 2EQ lacks the ability to EQ a sub at all, so I think spending for the MultEQ XT is probably worth it. I've compared the NR709 and the NR809 and it seems the biggest difference is the increased power. Would you guys say that is worth the extra $100? (709 is going for $560 on amazon and the 809 is listed at $660)

I've certainly been hearing good things about the Klipsch speakers and I really like the look of the WF-35 as well, they actually match the tables in my furniture set so i'm considering them as well. I will probably hold off on going for the center speaker right now, or at least try to push it to my parents xmas. Regarding wiring, I've been reading that 12awg wiring is good for general applications, which I think I fit into. I'd say that the front speakers won't need more than 6' of wire and eventually the back surround will probably not require more than 20', My living room area is about 12' x 16'.

I also have a question regarding the heat the reciever will put out, and if I need an auxillary fan to help airflow. The TV stand I have now is fairly open and breathable (I'm too new to post a link to it, but you can find it by googling 'Mainstays Black Frame TV Stand')

Thanks again.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

md0125 said:


> Thanks for the insight, I've been looking at the differences between the Audyssey 2EQ and MultEQ XT, and the increase in the resolution allows for better at lower frequencies. So I understand it as being important primarily for equalizing a subwoofer, whenever I decide to purchase one. Some even stated that 2EQ lacks the ability to EQ a sub at all, so I think spending for the MultEQ XT is probably worth it. I've compared the NR709 and the NR809 and it seems the biggest difference is the increased power. Would you guys say that is worth the extra $100? (709 is going for $560 on amazon and the 809 is listed at $660)
> 
> I've certainly been hearing good things about the Klipsch speakers and I really like the look of the WF-35 as well, they actually match the tables in my furniture set so i'm considering them as well. I will probably hold off on going for the center speaker right now, or at least try to push it to my parents xmas. Regarding wiring, I've been reading that 12awg wiring is good for general applications, which I think I fit into. I'd say that the front speakers won't need more than 6' of wire and eventually the back surround will probably not require more than 20', My living room area is about 12' x 16'.
> 
> ...


Hello,
The 809 also offers HQV Vida Video Processing in tandem with Marvell Qdeo. However, with the 800 Series forward, HQV Vida handles the bulk of the Video Processing and is honestly considered the best VP offered on an AVR/SSP. When Audioholics reviewed the Vida equipped Yamaha Aventage A3000, it received a perfect score on a very wide ranging battery of Video Benchmarks.

I would go ahead and use a fan as a preventative measure. Especially if being placed in an enclosure. The WF-35's are well worth stretching your budget for at the hugely discounted prices. I completely understand holding off on the CC. However, given the discounts, I do worry about how much longer the CC is going to be available. It might be better to spend $100 less on the AVR as the CC is currently available for $179.
Cheers,
JJ


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

Well, I think I'm going to go for the awesome deal for the Klipsch Speakers L/R and the CC, Saving like $1250, and go for the TX-NR809. It's only money, right?  

Anyway, to cool the receiver there are vents all along the top of it, so is it best to have a fan to sit on top of it and essentially suck heat out? If this is the typical setup, what type of fan is normally used, seems like it would be fairly large and potentially loud.

I've also got a question regarding mini jack inputs, I've got a cable right now that is a Red-White audio component to 3.5mm mini jack that i have used to play music from my iPod and phone, I'm sure it will work fine, but I'm curious if there are HDMI to 3.5mm mini jack cables as well.

Finally, is it best to keep all speakers (L/R, CC, and the Surround) within the same brand name and/or model line?

Since I can't post links yet, I attached the image of what my TV stand looks like.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

md0125 said:


> Well, I think I'm going to go for the awesome deal for the Klipsch Speakers L/R and the CC, Saving like $1250, and go for the TX-NR809. It's only money, right?


Fantastic choice! you will have a very good system far better then many people do.



> Anyway, to cool the receiver there are vents all along the top of it, so is it best to have a fan to sit on top of it and essentially suck heat out? If this is the typical setup, what type of fan is normally used, seems like it would be fairly large and potentially loud.


 Yes just place it on top near the rear of the unit. You can get fans that have speed switches built in so you can run them on a lower speed.



> I've also got a question regarding mini jack inputs, I've got a cable right now that is a Red-White audio component to 3.5mm mini jack that i have used to play music from my iPod and phone, I'm sure it will work fine, but I'm curious if there are HDMI to 3.5mm mini jack cables as well.


 As those cables are analog no you cant connect it to a HDMI cable however the receiver will have standard RCA analog inputs so you will be able to connect those directly to the receiver.



> Finally, is it best to keep all speakers (L/R, CC, and the Surround) within the same brand name and/or model line?


The front L, C, R yes. keep them the same and ideally the sourounds in the same brand is fine but not nearly as important.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

md0125 said:


> Well, I think I'm going to go for the awesome deal for the Klipsch Speakers L/R and the CC, Saving like $1250, and go for the TX-NR809. It's only money, right?
> 
> Anyway, to cool the receiver there are vents all along the top of it, so is it best to have a fan to sit on top of it and essentially suck heat out? If this is the typical setup, what type of fan is normally used, seems like it would be fairly large and potentially loud.
> 
> ...


Hello,
I really think you are going to love this HT. There is an Onkyo app for Android and iOS that will allow you to stream music directly from an Android Phone and from your PC. I was just checking it out on my iPhone 5 and going through all of the music could not be easier. In addition, the 809 has a USB Input should you want to directly connect your iPad and or phone to it.

It would certainly be ideal to finish off with Klipschs for Surrounds. I would just keep your eyes out for a pair of Klipsch monitors or bookshelves on sale and get some Stands. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm jealous! :yikes:


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

I'll definitely look for some deals in the upcoming few months for possibilities for back surrounds. To wire the system I'm probably going to go with 12AWG, it might be slight overkill, but it can't hurt (I think). I'm assuming I can use normal wire cutters to size and strip it? 

I'll definitely look into the Android app to stream music, I use Google Play to do so already rather than having the audio files take up space on my phone, so it might not be compatible. Regardless the mini jack cable I have is no hassle.

I want to thank you guys for helping me out with this, it seems like what I've got here is a serious system, first or not. Just curious on the typical life for receivers and speakers are, assuming nothing goes awry. I'll probably also look to get a diesel power strip to power everything and make sure it's surge proof, just in case.

Once again, thanks for all your help.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Speakers can last 30 or more years if taken care of. Receivers will usually last 10 years or more but given the advancements in electronics you may find yourself upgrading even before then.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Welcome to HTS! :wave:

A fantastic start to a system IMO - one thing I want to mention - if you are not adverse to a refurbished unit, you can find really great prices at A4L for the 709 / 809.


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

I went ahead and made my purchases last night, I think I may even have gotten the last pair of the WF-35s since they are now sold out on newegg. I checked on NR809 prices on A4,L but amazon actually had it cheaper, and it's new to boot. I should have all the components in about 10 days or so, but I'm really excited. So excited that I've already started trying to pick out a sub, even though I'm probably not going to make any purchases for at least a couple months.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Great idea on checking into a sub. Home theater is just not the same without a good sub. Most of us will recommend internet direct companies like SVS, HSU & one of our new sponsors PSA, Epik, or the Ken Kreisel site. They have links on the home page. Tell us about your room so we can help you pick one out.


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

It's a fairly small area, when I get home from work I'll take a few photos and get some rough dimensions. I've been taking a look at HSU, SVS, Epik, and Rythmik options, but the possibilities are endless.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

md0125 said:


> I went ahead and made my purchases last night, I think I may even have gotten the last pair of the WF-35s since they are now sold out on newegg. I checked on NR809 prices on A4,L but amazon actually had it cheaper, and it's new to boot. I should have all the components in about 10 days or so, but I'm really excited. So excited that I've already started trying to pick out a sub, even though I'm probably not going to make any purchases for at least a couple months.


Excellent call on pulling the trigger on the speakers. They have been at Newegg for a few months, but not quite as hugely discounted. It is why I thought it better to get the matching CC while available even if it meant getting a 709 as opposed to an 809.

The WF-35's really are striking speakers and given both their efficiency and the use of a powerful AVR, I really think you will be loving HT even without a Subwoofer. Once something like a HSU VTF-2 MKIV is added it will take things to an even more satisfying level, compared to what else could have been purchased for the same money I honestly think it would be all but impossible to better it.


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

Yeah, compared to what I had initially looked at (NR717 and a pair of F-20's) I feel like I have a solid setup going and just to clarify I went with Klipsch W-series L/C/R _and_ the NR809, so even at ~$1400 the deal is outstanding.

Anyway, I did a rough measurement of my space and the area is abour 25' x 15'. I've attached a few photos of my living room and threw together a quick diagram. The sub and speakers I have are a Logitech package (link) I bought around 5 years ago during my freshman year of college (Grabbed it on amazon for like $50!). Technically they are computer speakers which is where I will probabably move them back to, but I've used them to play music for parties and things, and they performed great. I believe the sub has an 8" driver, I'm unsure of the response but it thumps pretty good. I'm a sucker for big bass though, so I'd definitely go up to at least 10", but probably looking for 12"+, even for my small space. As far as budget goes it seems like subs go from about $500 to way up to $2000+, but I'd probably be alright with spending $750 or so, again won;t be for at least 6-8 weeks, so who knows.




























Diagram (NOT to scale)









When I do finally set everything up the WR-35's will flank the TV and the WC-24 will probably be placed on top of the cable box, (I believe it will cut into the bottom of the picture by about 1" - 1.5") and the NR809 will be placed next to my Xbox. 

I have a question regarding connecting a sub for the future. I noticed that the NR809 only has purple component outputs for a sub (As far as I can see), yet the subs include the component line in as well as what appears to be clamps for a speaker wire connection. Basically, I want to know if the 809 has a speaker wire output that I'm missing, and if not is this a bad thing that I'd connect the sub using a component style cable.

Again, very grateful for all the input and insight so far. Thanks so much, guys :T.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Many subwoofers do have speaker connections for what is known as a High Level Connection. However, with AVR's and HT, the vast majority use a Low Level Connection made with a RCA Cable. When you purchase a subwoofer, you will be connecting the LFE Output of the subwoofer into the subwoofer (LFE input) of the AVR.

Where it would be more common to use High Level would be with a 2 Channel setup where the is not a Subwoofer Output on the Preamp or Integrated Amplifier. In this case, the subwoofer handles the crossover, and all other controls. However, with an AVR like you purchased, you really want it to handle the crossover, etc.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well your in for a real treat when you upgrade the sub as the Logitech is not really even a true sub as its frequency response is 30-200hz The reason is that the satellite speakers they use are not capable of reaching down below about 400hz so the sub has to do alot higher than a true subwoofer and cant go very deep. 
The SVS PB12NSD is a great choice for a small budget.


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Where it would be more common to use High Level would be with a 2 Channel setup where the is not a Subwoofer Output on the Preamp or Integrated Amplifier. In this case, the subwoofer handles the crossover, and all other controls. However, with an AVR like you purchased, you really want it to handle the crossover, etc.


So looking at the rear image of the NR809, the sub connects up to the AVR using two RCA cables into the purple sub slots in the "Pre Out" grouping, or a 2-into-1 type RCA cable is used to run into a singular, assuming the solid white outlined purple sub slot, also in the "Pre Out" grouping? 




tonyvdb said:


> Well your in for a real treat when you upgrade the sub as the Logitech is not really even a true sub as its frequency response is 30-200hz The reason is that the satellite speakers they use are not capable of reaching down below about 400hz so the sub has to do alot higher than a true subwoofer and cant go very deep.
> The SVS PB12NSD is a great choice for a small budget.


Well now I'm really looking forward to it, not only for how low it will go, but to hear the gap I've been missing from 200-400Hz. I know that common frequency response range for speakers is roughly 20Hz - 20kHz, but is there a range that the majority of sound falls into?

Also, I may be over-thinking this, but do receivers and subs come with the UPC cords to power them or do I need to purchase those separately?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Speaker frequency response varies all over the place but unless you get into some very high end ($1000 and up) your likely not going to get speakers that go lower then 45Hz at any meaningful levels and even then many in the above price range will bottom out around 30Hz. this is why a good sub is so important in a home theater system because many movies these days have frequencies below 15Hz. 
The sub hooks up using a standard RCA cable nothing too fancy required.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

md0125 said:


> So looking at the rear image of the NR809, the sub connects up to the AVR using two RCA cables into the purple sub slots in the "Pre Out" grouping, or a 2-into-1 type RCA cable is used to run into a singular, assuming the solid white outlined purple sub slot, also in the "Pre Out" grouping?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The AVR comes with an IEC Main In Power Cable. Most AVR's come with a captive AC Cable. It is mostly the more expensive AVR's that have detachable power cables. Regardless, any AVR or subwoofer you purchase will come with a power cable.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Not sure if this is what you mean, but you would take a RCA cable and plug it into the sub out on the back of the 809. Then, the other end is connected to either input on your sub - I connected mine to the positive side for example.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Many subs have two RCA input jacks for input (usually marked LEFT/RIGHT, sometimes one of these jacks might also be marked MONO). 
If one of the jacks is not marked MONO, I would read the sub's instruction manual to see if it is noted how to connect a single RCA cable.


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

Thanks for the clarification with connecting subs to the receiver. So I'm assuming the second pre-out sub connection would be for adding a secondary sub?

I've been doing some research and am seeing that for a box subs, they can either be ported or sealed. Reading on the benefits of each show that a ported sub has good reach but is typically better off for HT use and the sealed type is better for music. Now that's not to say that music will be bad on a ported sub, and the same goes for HT on a sealed sub. The sub from my Logitech set is ported and it has been really good for me so far, so I'm leaning towards a ported sub, just wanted to get some input. Now I also see that HSU has subwoofers that are variable and can be "tuned" to personal preferences, as well as room types, so I'm considering them as well.

Now is there significant differences between going with down-firing vs. front/side-firing subs? I'm curious if a down-firing sub would be less raw (might not be the right word) than the front-firing subs. If I play music loud with the Logitech sub, which is front-firing, I can start to feel it in my chest cavity, which I really like, so I'm worried if this is lost/diminished by going with a down-firing option.

Finally, it seems that most subs are powered by there own amps. Is there a typical range to look for or do they basically vary based upon how large of a sub they are powering?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

yes you are correct about the differences in ported and sealed subs for the most part. Sealed subs are also smaller. 
If the sub is built correctly it should make no difference if it down firing or front. Some people like the looks of a front mounted sub as they like to see the driver in motion but that is not kid friendly.
Yes, most subs have their own amp built in but many DIY subs that people build it is just simpler to have an external amp to power it.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Ported subs usually can play louder with less power.
Sealed subs usually play more accurate and flat but take more power.
A ported sub can sound as good and accurate as a sealed sub, but the ported sub just has to be designed properly, by the likes of HSU and SVS. I haven't heard any (ported) Logitechs that sound good.

I like certain models from HSU because of the reason you give, it's adjustable. Even if it weren't adjustable I would respect them just as much.

Correctly built subs shouldn't differ whether they are down firing or side firing.

As far as deciding whose sub to get, don't worry too much about it. As long as you get quality (HSU,SVS), and they are in the same price range,it really doesn't matter which one you get. The only time you would definitely notice a difference between them is if you get a $300 sub vs a $800 sub. Main speakers do have a noticeable difference, not so much with subs.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

md0125 said:


> Thanks for the clarification with connecting subs to the receiver. So I'm assuming the second pre-out sub connection would be for adding a secondary sub?


Correct - if you wanted to add to get more than 2, you can get a y-splitter and split the RCA to two lines.


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

I've been doing alot of research and reading about the HSU VTF-3 MK4 and VTF-15H. Both of which I am liking alot. When I do decide to make the purchase I will most likely go for the VTF-3 MK4 since I think a 15" sub would be a bit much for now, plus the it fits closer into the price range that I'm looking for.

I've got another question regarding the Onkyo NR809. I'm curious as to whether or not it is worth it to get the wireless internet USB adapter. Is there any other usage for it other than using it for internet radio and doubling my phone for use as a remote?

Thanks again.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

md0125 said:


> I've been doing alot of research and reading about the HSU VTF-3 MK4 and VTF-15H. Both of which I am liking alot. When I do decide to make the purchase I will most likely go for the VTF-3 MK4 since I think a 15" sub would be a bit much for now, plus the it fits closer into the price range that I'm looking for.
> 
> I've got another question regarding the Onkyo NR809. I'm curious as to whether or not it is worth it to get the wireless internet USB adapter. Is there any other usage for it other than using it for internet radio and doubling my phone for use as a remote?
> 
> Thanks again.


I cannot think of one - I never considered getting it as it just did not seem worth it for me personally. YMMV.......


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

So I finally got all my packages gathered and then set up my receiver and the speakers. I love it, its amazing the quality and I've never dealt with a center channel before, so having the separation to the left and right is something I love. Plus the actual aesthetic look of the speakers are amazing, and i don't just have vacant wall space, which is nice. Thanks everyone for helping me out, I'll probably be making more purchases in the coming months, but enough babbling. Photos Below.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Very clean installation. I would recommend moving the Klipschs a bit forward so that they are not flush with the back wall. Even moving them out 1 feet from the back wall can really make a big difference.
Cheers,
JJ


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Its looks very nice, Congrats and enjoy


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

:T


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## md0125 (Nov 22, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Very clean installation. I would recommend moving the Klipschs a bit forward so that they are not flush with the back wall. Even moving them out 1 feet from the back wall can really make a big difference.
> Cheers,
> JJ


They are currently like six inches or so away from the wall, but i can move the forward a bit more. I'll do it when I go through the full MultEQ XT setup, I've only got it setup at one mic location currently.

Thanks for the good words, I know its not much compared to some of the awesome dedicated rooms some members have, but I'll keep the training wheels on for now.


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