# An Appeal For Acoustic Advice On My Room



## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

Hi all,
Since signing up a few weeks ago I've enjoyed browsing the HTS forums and playing a bit with REW thus far. This has caused me to think quite a bit about my room acoustics. I've now got some treatments to play with. Here's what I've got now: 2 GIK tri-traps, 3 GIK 242 panels, 8 Auralex LENRDs, 2 Auralex 4'x2'x2" wedge panels. I've also got 2 GIK 244 panels on the way next week. The auralex stuff looks awful next to the GIK stuff, so eventually I plan to phase most of them out.

Anyways, right now my gear is set up in the living room. It's approximately 14.1'x18', but it opens up to the kitchen in the back which makes it more like 14.1'x25.5'. The kitchen also opens up to smaller rooms on each side. Basically the only separation between living room and kitchen/side rooms is a 3' high by 10' long counter top.

My speakers are currently set up along the 14' wall furthest from the kitchen. I've got a behemoth 34" HD CRT tube TV (200 lbs. and a couple feet deep) & stand between them. There's about 7.5' betwen the speaks, they're placed 4.25' from the front wall and about 3.25' from the side walls. The listening position forms an approximate equilateral triangle with the speaks (about 7'-8' sides).

Being a big fan of 2ch music rigs, I think I'm ready to sacrifice HT completely for the sake of optimal 2ch performance. I'm ready to move the TV out into another room, freeing the space up between the speaks (and - I reckon - solving whatever acoustics issues the TV might have caused). 

Now, before I go moving everything around (at great cost of effort) I'd love to get some informed opinions on how I should try arranging stuff. Here's a view of my room from the listening position (kitchen is behind):










Since the photo was taken I've done the following:
* placed the tri-traps in each front corner (on the floor, each hidden by the DVD rack/audio rack), 
* placed the two 242 panels behind each speaker at the 1st reflection points (again, on the floor), 
* placed one 242 at 1st reflection point sidewall, the 2 Auralex panels at 1st relection other sidewall, all floor standing.
* 2 LENRDS stacked on each tri-trap
* 1 LENRD at the base of each sidewall panel
* 1 LENRD in the middle of the front wall/floor joint

I would love any general comments on whether this is a reasonable starter strategy, or any suggestions. Also would like to know where the incoming 244 panels will be most useful.

I also have 3 specific questions:
1) Do you think removing the TV will make a noticeable improvement? If I do this, should I move the audio rack between the speaks or keep it off to the side? This would also allow me to experiment with closer speaker spacings; right now this is as close as they can get due to magnetic issues with the CRT.
2) You can see there are 2 windows behind the speakers, covered in venetian blinds. Would placing curtains here make any worthwhile difference? Are the closed blinds better than exposed glass?
3) I have a very large (74" long) leather couch for the listening position. I'm now concerned that the large leather surface could reflect the higher frequencies. Would I be better off moving the couch out of the room and replacing it with a smaller (but still large) leather chair?

I know that's a lot, and I'll really appreciate any help that's provided


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Mike.

I'm going to make a few suggestions to try to improve things a bit with what you have. Here is how I'd lay it out:

1 Tri-Trap in each front corner - DO NOT cover them with racks of any sort. 

LENRDS fully between the Tri-s spanning the front wall/floor corner. If you have extra, stack them up on top of the tri-traps (assuming you don't want to tack them to the wall horizontally centered on the front wall/ceiling intersection.

1 242 panel on each side wall at the reflection point for the near speaker.

1 Auralex panel on each side wall at the reflection point for the other speaker. Do not use GIK on one side and Auralex on the other. We want left to right symmetry and these 2 are nowhere near the same absorbtively. Also, having the GIK's closer to the speaker will help with boundary issues.

Move the TV and center the rack but keep the speaker faces out at least a foot or 2 in front of the rack.

Use the other 242 panel hung horizontally on the REAR wall of the room centered behind the main listening position.

Bryan


----------



## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

Bryan,
Thanks *a ton*! I hated moving stuff randomly without really knowing what I was doing. Now with your expert advice, I can get all the major moving done in one shot and feel much more confident the results will be worthwhile 

The only one of your suggestions I have a problem implementing - is the horizontal 242 for the back wall. See, I don't have a back wall, per se. a few feet behind the listening couch is the 3' tall kitchen counter - then behind that is the kitchen, consisting of lots of cabinets, wine rack, range top, counter, fridge, etc. I can't mount anything on the counter or the back of the kitchen. I could lean a couple panels vertically against the counter, but they'd only peek about a foot over the top of the couch & counter.

For the incoming 244's, I was planning on putting them at 1st reflection points roughly behind the speakers. That sound ok? Also, any thoughts on the leather couch vs. chair issue?

BTW, I'm really really pleased with the 242 panels so far. They seem very effective, look good, and didn't cost much more than the ugly Auralex panels. Also, I had no idea the racks could be reducing the Tri-Traps' effectiveness. Thanks for the tip - I'll move them out ASAP!

Thanks again!


----------



## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

This weekend I implemented a few of the proposed changes, along with a couple of my own:

* Placed 6 LENRDs spanning the floor between the tri-traps.
* Removed the DVD & audio racks their current positions that were blocking the tri-traps.
* Removed the huge TV & stand from the room entirely.
* With TV out of the way, I moved the speaks closer together, about 1 foot inwards
* Shortened the audio rack by about 16" (removed a shelf) and placed it between the speaks about 1.5' back from the front baffles.
* Draped a doubled-up, heavy woven Mexican blanket over the leather couch. Intended to soak up high frequency reflections that may be coming off the leather near my head (I hope )
* My one electronics change: upgraded from a PS Audio HCA2 to a Parasound Halo A21  The new amp sits on a 10" high stand in front of the main rack.

I don't think I've ever made so many changes at once, and I've never noticed such a large difference - and it's an _extremely positive_ difference at that! The system is immensely more enjoyable... it is _there_. Across the board upgrades in: dynamics, low-level detail, resolution, tonality, imaging, soundstage size, soundstage coherence. From here on, tweaks and changes will be fun to evaluate because I know I'll always have a super baseline I can revert to at any time. Great success!


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Glad we're getting there. It's always nice to see someone get the room right and really hear the difference. 

The couch should be fine - I wouldn't worry about it. Put a pillow next to you on both sides if you want to hear the difference.

The 244's directly behind the speakers should be a good idea - need to see how that interacts with the rest of the space.

For the rear, if you have that much space behind you, I wouldn't worry. Maybe lean a couple against the counter when you want to seriously listen. The idea initially was to kill null causing reflections off a close rear wall - which isn't there.

Bryan


----------



## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

Thanks again, Bryan!
Today is the 2nd day with this configuration and it's also the 2nd day in a row I've been "blown away" by the sound quality. I'll admit I've had a few first impression "wow" experiences that turned out to be flukes or non-repeatable. However, every time my first AND second impressions have been in sync, they've held up in the long term. Regardless, I'm very familiar with the way my rig sounded before the last 2-3 weeks of changes, and this is a quantum leap better than that. It really does sound just like my friend's previous system, which was what caused me to fall in love with these speakers in the first place (I bought them from him when he upgraded to Thiel CS7.2). He had a dedicated 2ch room with moderate treatments and about $20,000 of electronics, FYI. For the longest time I was bitterly disappointed since they didn't sound anything like that once plopped into my living room. Most audiophile forums would point their fingers directly at the electronics disparity - while I still believe that was part of the problem (started out with an amp I outright _hated_), I also believe the room setup and placements played a larger role than they'd like to admit.

Now all the wonderful memories of that sound are finally coming back  I'm excited 

I just picked up a Nikon D40, so I hope to have some nice pics up in a day or 2.


----------



## mulveling (Feb 14, 2007)

The system has been sounding so _great_ that I've become inspired to see if I can take things even further along.

The 244's arrived and have been placed behind each speaker; the 242's are now dedicated to the sidewall 1st reflection points. I also just received 8 more LENRDs (the burgundy looks much better than charcoal IMO), 6 of which I plan to velcro up spanning the ceiling/wall junction directly behind the speakers. I have another pair of GIK tri-traps on order; of course these will be stacked up on the pair I already have to nearly reach the ceiling (8' out of a 9' ceiling). Taking full advantage of my non-married status here 

Another electronics upgrade is also in the works: I've secured a sweet deal on a pair of Parasound Halo JC-1 monoblocks from a local friend  He's the one I bought the Legacy speakers from, and the synergy between the Legacy/JC1 pairing was _insane_.

When things settle down around here I'll probably do a batch of REW measurements and snap some pics. If things work out well, in the future I might consider treating the 1st reflection points on the ceiling and also the back wall/ceiling junction above the kitchen. Dealing with acoustics issues has been fun; I feel like I'm getting a huge leg up on the audiophiles with deeper pockets and more expensive gear matched to poor rooms!


----------



## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Pics, por favor! There's nothing like _seeing!_ :bigsmile: 

I know you're busy, but I'm really thinking of WAF on my end...

Thanks for the thread and insights from your experience. 

BTW, about how much $$ are you into the acoustic treatments so far?

-- Phil


----------

