# Front height/width channels



## pmcneil (May 29, 2010)

I know that the professional critics out there haven't been very enthusiastic so far about front height or width channels.

I recently installed both via an Onkyo 5508 processor, to complement 4 side surrounds (two aside the listening position, two behind, with no 'true' rear channels operating).

I'm very impressed with the extra spaciousness these add in the intended dimensions, and without coloring the sound (of course, I've got Audyssey MultEQ XT32 sorting things out!).

Anyone else out there care to comment, or refer me to a thread I've missed?

Thanks!


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## jmschnur (May 31, 2011)

pmcneil said:


> I know that the professional critics out there haven't been very enthusiastic so far about front height or width channels.
> 
> I recently installed both via an Onkyo 5508 processor, to complement 4 side surrounds (two aside the listening position, two behind, with no 'true' rear channels operating).
> 
> ...


Lots of discussion of this in the Audessey AVS forum .


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## pmcneil (May 29, 2010)

Thanks, is that here (HTS) or there (elsewhere)?


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I've only heard the so-so reviews... But that's really cool that you've found it to work in your set-up! I love pleasant surprises like that! ;-)


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## jmschnur (May 31, 2011)

pmcneil said:


> Thanks, is that here (HTS) or there (elsewhere)?


Search for AVS Forum.

It is In the AMPs , processors, .. Forum . The Audyssey thread is a sticky .


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## pmcneil (May 29, 2010)

27dnast,

Yeah, I was more than pleasantly surprised, and would not go back...but have recently due to a near lightening strike that took out my Onkyo processor. I'm verging on depression until it comes back...if it does (under warenty).


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow. That's lousy! Lightning!

We had a lightning strike torch our AC condenser... Crazy how powerful it is.

When you had it running did you have to find movies that were encoded with height and width? Or does the AVR just create it?


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## pmcneil (May 29, 2010)

27dnast,

It's the processor. There's no h/w digitally recorded yet, as far as I know. 

I think that they've got it right. The front end is of primo importance for the human ear.

Next, they need to do the center channel, with two speakers, one above, one below, and compensation for all of the time-alignment problems, etc. that might result from such an arrangement (forget 'comb filtering').


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

pmcneil said:


> 27dnast,
> 
> It's the processor. There's no h/w digitally recorded yet, as far as I know.
> 
> ...


Gotcha --- you know what would be cool? Channels in the ceiling. Not sure how that would play out. But, sounds cool! ;-)


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

27dnast said:


> Gotcha --- you know what would be cool? Channels in the ceiling. Not sure how that would play out. But, sounds cool! ;-)


Couldn't you do that for front height channels?


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

ellisr63 said:


> Couldn't you do that for front height channels?


Sure, and if you mount those speakers a little closer to the listening position (instead of high up on the front wall) you can get a nice bubble of sound with some overhead imaging (instead of a taller front soundstage). 

Sanjay


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I have a Denon AVR-A100 set up with height and width and am very pleased with the difference - on some material. By far, the most effective demo of the difference is on Avatar, or at least of the movies I have seen using A-DSX. The height effect on the airship flyovers is quite distinct. Some 7.1 movies (the few that there are) also can benefit from A-DSX.

Some TV material sounds great in A-DSX. For instance, Deadliest Catch with it engaged surrounds me with the ocean sounds. On other material, dialog sounds echo-ey and phase-ey. Those of us old enough to remember how the original Dolby surround processing behaved know that it was better on some material than others, depending on how much phase difference there is. And, it is all phase sensing that produces the steering. As a previous post noted, nothing available to us is in discrete 11.x - at least not yet.

Many folks say that if going this way, add the wides before the heights. I did that, adding the heights about 6 months later. Again, the difference between the two depends on the source material. Changing around is simple enough with the remote, even to turn it off when it is not as pleasant. I have never considered it to be offensive, but I do turn it off sometimes.

Everyone has their own opinion, but for me I will not go back because of those movies and TV shows in which it adds a little extra magic.


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## pmcneil (May 29, 2010)

I agree, it does now add some 'magic', and I'm sure this depends on where you place the surrounds, and how well your processor equalizes based on this and other factors. In theory, though, if you can make it work, it's obviously a huge advance.

My question is: when will they implement this for the MOST IMPORTANT CHANNEL, the center? With above and below locations?


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

hjones4841 said:


> On other material, dialog sounds echo-ey and phase-ey.





pmcneil said:


> My question is: when will they implement this for the MOST IMPORTANT CHANNEL, the center?


Considering what it does to dialogue, why would you want this for the centre channel?


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Again, the impacts on the center vary with program material. It would be interesting to see what a derived up and down center would sound like. It may not be that significant; if it were, I suspect that Dolby or Audyssey would already have it on the market.


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

Audyssey actually avoids processing the centre channel. For example: if you want to process a 2-channel source using Audyssey DSX, you first have to apply Dolby PLII or DTS Neo:6 to extract a centre channel (i.e., remove all the vocals from the L/R channels), and then you can apply DSX. 

Keep in mind that the DSX processing is only applied the front L/R channels, adding early reflections (that weren't in the original recording) based on concert hall acoustics. On discrete multi-channel material, whenever dialogue is occasionally mixed into the L/R channels you can hear the echo-ey phase-ey effect you described. Personally, I wouldn't want all the dialogue to sound that way (like I'm hearing everything in a hall). YMMV.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Question: To do height or width do you need a special receiver or would a 7.1 receiver do it? I have the Denon 3806 and I am curious as to whether or not I can do it.


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

The 3806 lacks any height channel or wide channel processing. You need a newer receiver that has Dolby PLIIz (extracts heights) or Audyssey DSX (generates heights and wides) or DTS Neo:X (extracts heights and wides).


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

sdurani said:


> The 3806 lacks any height channel or wide channel processing. You need a newer receiver that has Dolby PLIIz (extracts heights) or Audyssey DSX (generates heights and wides) or DTS Neo:X (extracts heights and wides).


THks, I was hoping that since I have 7.1 capability I could add height or width channels. It looks like I will be looking for a new receiver when I can afford it


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

ellisr63 said:


> It looks like I will be looking for a new receiver when I can afford it


As and when you do get a new receiver, there will be a whole bunch of newer technologies (room correction, surround processing, hi-rez audio decoding, etc) to improve the sound of your system. Depending on your set-up, height channels might turn out to be one of the smaller benefits.


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## mpompey (Jan 5, 2007)

pmcneil said:


> I agree, it does now add some 'magic', and I'm sure this depends on where you place the surrounds, and how well your processor equalizes based on this and other factors. In theory, though, if you can make it work, it's obviously a huge advance.
> 
> My question is: when will they implement this for the MOST IMPORTANT CHANNEL, the center? With above and below locations?


I can't imagine to VP180s for my center. I know it would be overkill, but I will completely jump on the wagon.


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## J2ozone (Apr 23, 2013)

*Re: Front ceiling channels*

...And behold, 'DOLBY ATMOS' Don't think it will be heading into home theatres anytime soon though.


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## DaveCarrera4S (May 27, 2013)

hjones4841 said:


> Again, the impacts on the center vary with program material. It would be interesting to see what a derived up and down center would sound like. It may not be that significant; if it were, I suspect that Dolby or Audyssey would already have it on the market.


The Pioneer SC1522 i just bought has adjustment to "lift" dialog, which moves the center channel up in 4 discrete steps to the front height speakers. Cool effect.


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