# Sigh...Probably going deaf



## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

My new Denon X4000 doesn't like going past 60 on the volume dial. I was watch "Whitehouse Down" today and I was getting distortion. Every review I have read said the Denon could belt out the action with the best of them. Guess it only can at normal volumes. Guess its an Emotiva at birthday time (too bad its 9 months way..)


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## thatbrownguy (Jan 2, 2014)

Try re running audyssey multeq.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Looking at your photos of your home theater room (looks great by the way) i would suggest tilting up the front of your centre channel speaker. It seems a bit low.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Yes I am running Audussey. Hey Tony, I used a laser penlight to align the tweeters to the listening position for the LCR speakers and thanks.., strange thing though, we watched Zorro on DVD in Dolby digital and didn't have a problem, probably the reason I never noticed before since the old AVR was DD. "Whitehouse Down" was in DTS, I will have to try something else in True HD to see if their is a difference but I doubt it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Its just possible that your receiver is a bit under powered and distortion is causing it to be unclear (Oh but wait 20 watts is supposed to be sufficient  )
As I noticed when we were all at my place Monday the dialog in Elysium seemed a bit muted it may just hav been that particular mix. Ive always found the uncompressed formats to have much more dynamics and that can sometimes over power the centre channel.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Don't know what you are running for speakers, I cant tell from the pics but could it be that the new reciever when playing DTS or True HD is overdriving them? I ask because before I got my Chase speakers my Onkyo could overdrive the speakers I had at the time very easily.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Andre said:


> My new Denon X4000 doesn't like going past 60 on the volume dial


Whoa, what ever happened to just cranking the volume to "11"???:scratch:
(j/k)



tonyvdb said:


> Its just possible that your receiver is a bit under powered and distortion is causing it to be unclear


I wouldn't characterize it as "under powered", but more likely a poor match for the load it is attempting to drive, at high levels. Speaking of which, we may be in luck (I used the Googles). Here is the impedance of the M22ti "SE" (not sure if/how this differs from Andres)








http://www.soundstagemagazine.com/measurements/axiom_m22ti_se/
Although the phase angles are okay-ish, it does appear to dip to around 3 ohms at 4k. Not the easiest load for a mch receiver. That could well be the source of his drama at higher levels.



tonyvdb said:


> Oh but wait 20 watts is supposed to be sufficient  )


I don't see where anyone said that here? :scratch:
In any case, that would be rather optimistic (or poorly informed), as I linked (to Bob Cordells site) previously, real program material can demand dynamic peaks far higher (into typical home speakers) to remain linear.
Not sure about his center (data on Axiom site looked ok), but he may need only a capable 2 ch amp to relieve his HTR "mains" demands....when going past "11" 

cheers


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

ajinfla said:


> I don't see where anyone said that here? :scratch:


Just a bit of an inside joke, its been mentioned in a few other threads by some who think that 20-30 watts is plenty of power to drive most speakers to reference levels.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Relooking at the problem I don't think the Denon is my issue. The only thing distorting is vocals, and then it seems only specific ones, and only in HD audio.

I watched Zoro at high volumes (65) in DVD Dolby Digital and heard no distortion.

I watched Whitehouse Down in DTS HD and many voices were distorted volume at (60)

I watched GI Joe Retaliation at high volume (65) and the only voice that was distorted was Cobra Commanders. This was in Dolby True HD.

I tried bringing down the center via the Dialog emphasis menu option (-1.5) and still had Some vocals distort


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

It may be worth checking the audio output setting in your BR player.
Auto typically selects the most appropriate output per whatever is available on the media.
If there is any dynamic range control enabled in the BR player disable it.

I have a Sony BR and the audio options are limited, but in the PS3 the options are quite extensive...I have no idea what is available in the Oppo-83 but from this article it appears there may be several.
http://www.oppodigital.com/KnowledgeBase.aspx?prodID=BDP-83


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

When setting up the Oppo after I did a firmware update just recently I used the Wizard and set the Audio to Advanced:

"The “Advanced” setting configures audio output to send the original main audio content to a
connected receiver for decoding and reproducing. It requires a receiver capable of decoding all high
bit rate audio formats. If you connect the player to a receiver supporting HDMI 1.3 and high bit rate audio formats, selecting the “Advanced” setting is recommended. Menu click sound and Secondary Audio Program are turned off by default to preserve the original quality of the main audio content."

All cabling used was 1.4 HDMI

In advanced audio setup:

Secondary Audio set to Off
HDMI Audio set to Bitstream "Digital audio output via HDMI will be in bitstream format. This option is
recommended when connecting the HDMI output to an A/V receiver or processor that
supports advanced audio decoding, such as Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio."


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Since there is a problem somewhere in the chain, you might try letting the Oppo decode the HD audio and send PCM to the AVR just to see if that fixes the problem.

Or try AUTO and see if the AVR and the Oppo will negotiate a format that works correctly.

I do not know how loud 60 - 65 on the Denon display actually is, is it exceptionally loud ? 
Can you talk to someone 5-6 ft away without shouting ?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Sigh...Found the reason from my Distortion...

GRANDCHILDREN:crying::foottap::doh::hissyfit::spend:


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Yep, that'll do it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ugh! Sorry to see that. It may be repairable. The dust cap can be sucked out using a vacuum or a piece of painters tape. If using a vacuum make an adapter from a toilet paper roll and cut a hole in the side so the suction is reduced.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I took the speaker out and tried to smooth out the cone but no go, its all rippled. This VP150 is the Mk1 they are on Mk3 now, I have sent them an email to see if they can help with a replacement driver. If not I am at a loss except for buying a whole new unit with would cause my wallet considerable anguish


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

It is still curious why it would only affect HD audio.
If this is the root cause of the distortion I would think that once the volume level was reached where the distortion occurs, it would not matter what the source material format was.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

not sure, I was redoing the audessy and heard the center did sound the same as the L&R during the test tone, took off the grill and my heart sank, but I thoght I could fix it by taking out the speaker and pushing out the cone but the cone is a plastic material and once creased that bad it wouldnt reshape perhaps thynamics dolby prologic isnt as robust HDDigital


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## KelvinS1965 (Feb 6, 2011)

Maybe the HD soundtracks were pushing more bass through the centre? Before seeing the OP's damaged driver I was going to suggest raising the crossover for the centre speaker to take some load off it. Perhaps this still might be worth trying in the meantime until a replacement driver/speaker can be found?


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Were you able to fix the speaker and did that fix your issue with the sound?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Replacment driver from Axiom ($70) should be in this week. Wonder if you can get that kind of service form other manufactures


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

The VP150 is fixed and good a new, sound is now primo again..:clap::bigsmile::T


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Good to hear!


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Excellent news, thanks for posting again. :T

At least you didn't try throwing an amplifier at this problem :sarcastic:


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## roger1014 (Oct 18, 2011)

Andre said:


> Sigh...Found the reason from my Distortion...
> 
> GRANDCHILDREN:crying::foottap::doh::hissyfit::spend:


While working at a local brick and mortar place I saw the same thing in some B&W center channel speakers. Seems some people like to poke things. B&W actually sent some covers for the tweeters to help prevent this from happening.


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## steve1616 (Apr 6, 2009)

Now that you found the speaker problem, does the amp seem to push out power nicely. I am just wondering because I'm interested in a similar Denon.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Everything is working very well for the room. Once I put in some corner traps and a few first reflection absorbers (this summer), I think it will be perfect sound wise


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## Tweaked05 (Sep 19, 2012)

I have had this happen twice now. The first time was kind of my own fault. I decided to take the grills off and wouldn't you know it, my son decided that my tweeter was a button. Cost me $50. The second time, I'm not sure what happened, but I fixed it the best I could and decided not to waste anymore money on it till my son is older.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

The Axiom fix took 5 mins and they are good as new. They shipped the driver UPS which was all part of the $70


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