# need for suggestions



## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Do I need to change my avr, because my friends told me my avr is not enough power.
Is that real ? If I have to change please give me for information.


my system

onkyo 680

paradigm studio 60/20/cc590

sub denon (from the old in the box) 

cable 

front : AQ Mont Blanc 
center : AQ Gibraltar
rear : AQ type 2
sub : AQ type 4 

Thx.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

As a quick non technical response: it depends on how loud you want the speakers to play.
Do you constantly need to turn the volume knob up past the 75% area? Or does it play loud enough with the volume knob around the half-way pont?
If you need to crank the knob up to near max, then you probably need more power.
If it plays loud enough with the knob at half-way, then your current AVR should be fine.

Maybe someone else will come along with something more technical.


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Thank you gdstupak for your suggestion, as you said *If you need to crank the knob up to near max
* no, i don't need that and i disagree with my friends said, i think that's enough for me. And I also don't want to change it. thanks again.

Regards
Q


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## smurphy522 (Sep 21, 2010)

The main speakers are in the middle of the efficiency rating (91-92 dB in room - depends on the version 3 or 5). They are 8 ohm rated as well and combined with the Onkyo unit (assumed to be an HT-S680 unit) which puts out 150 w/ch @ 1% THD. This combo should be more than enough to satisfy most in a normal sized listening space. Normal sized being up to about 300 ft².

Also see you employ a sub so if crossed over (at 80 Hz or so ?) it will be much less taxing on the Onkyo AVR and should allow for a larger amount of dynamic range before clipping.

Now you could certainly benefit from a more powerful amplifier section however I see little information pointing me to believe you actually "need it".


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Awfully expensive Speaker Cable you have there on the Mains and Center Channel. Provided you are pleased with the SQ, then you are correct about not needing a new AVR.

I am not familiar with the Onkyo 680. Could it be the TX-SR608?
Cheers,
JJ


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

smurphy522 said:


> The main speakers are in the middle of the efficiency rating (91-92 dB in room - depends on the version 3 or 5). They are 8 ohm rated as well and combined with the Onkyo unit (assumed to be an HT-S680 unit) which puts out 150 w/ch @ 1% THD. This combo should be more than enough to satisfy most in a normal sized listening space. Normal sized being up to about 300 ft².
> 
> Also see you employ a sub so if crossed over (at 80 Hz or so ?) it will be much less taxing on the Onkyo AVR and should allow for a larger amount of dynamic range before clipping.
> 
> Now you could certainly benefit from a more powerful amplifier section however I see little information pointing me to believe you actually "need it".


Thanks for your advised, my speakers it was version 5. So as you said I need it, and question is How much power do I need ? I just checked anthem 500, pioneer lx73 is that match for my speakers?
p.s. I have heard if avr low power than speakers it makes trouble with speakers, T or F ?

Regards
Q


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Awfully expensive Speaker Cable you have there on the Mains and Center Channel. Provided you are pleased with the SQ, then you are correct about not needing a new AVR.
> 
> I am not familiar with the Onkyo 680. Could it be the TX-SR608?
> ...


My mistake its not 680 actually 608 :bigsmile: 
Indeed my speakers cable its expensive, I have got a cheap price I mean half price.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The 608 should be fine. I would be looking at upgrading your Subwoofer before switching Receivers personally. While the 608 lacks Preamp Outputs for adding an Amplifier and offers Audyssey's most basic implementation of Room EQ in 2EQ (does not apply filtering to the Subwoofer), it does offer a very solid Amplifier Section and if you add a better Subwoofer and Crossover all Speakers to 80hz, you really should have plenty of power.
Cheers,
JJ


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The 608 should be fine. I would be looking at upgrading your Subwoofer before switching Receivers personally. While the 608 lacks Preamp Outputs for adding an Amplifier and offers Audyssey's most basic implementation of Room EQ in 2EQ (does not apply filtering to the Subwoofer), it does offer a very solid Amplifier Section and if you add a better Subwoofer and Crossover all Speakers to 80hz, you really should have plenty of power.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Thanks again, Could you recommend me for subwoofer. 18sq.m. my room.

Thanks a lot.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I think the HSU Research VTF-2 MKIII is fantastic and last I looked was on sale for $509 ($63 Dollars Shipping) Truly a great Subwoofer and puts out true SPL's at 20hz. This is something many Subwoofers costing twice as much cannot claim.

The MKIII is actually an earlier generation VTF-3 with just 50 Watts less power. In other words, it is almost identical to the close to 1000 Dollar VTF-3 MKII and that Subwoofer was a superb value at its selling price which makes the VTF-2 MKIII a truly special value. I have Setup and listened to at least a dozen of them and they are amazing.
Cheers,
JJ


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

omix said:


> Thanks for your advised, my speakers it was version 5. So as you said I need it, and question is How much power do I need ?


Scott (smurphy522) was not advising that you "need" more power.
He was suggesting that your current AVR should be fine, but a more powerful amplifier could make it better than it is.
It's as if you have a perfectly fine 'normal' car already, it does the job properly. Then buying a new sports car is not necessary, but it would be funner to drive.



omix said:


> p.s. I have heard if avr low power than speakers it makes trouble with speakers, T or F ?


In most situations a lower power AVR will only be trouble if you have to push the AVR too hard to get loud sound (such as if you have to crank the volume knob up to max all the time).
There are speakers that demand alot of power even at low volumes, but this is not your situation.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The important thing to avoid is Distortion (Clipping) where the AVR is over powered and sends a signal that can prove ruinous to your Speakers. Far more Speakers are damaged from too little power than not enough.

That being said, the 608 has a solid Amplifier Section and especially considering its MSRP. The TX-NR609 was recently Bench Tested in Home Theater Magazine and garnered stellar results.

The nice thing about adding a high quality Subwoofer is that you can crossover all you Speakers to 80hz which will provide more headroom and power for the Speakers when not tasked with playing the lowest octaves. Even if Audyssey sets your Speakers lower than 80hz, I would set it to 80hz.
Cheers,
JJ


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I think the HSU Research VTF-2 MKIII is fantastic and last I looked was on sale for $509 ($63 Dollars Shipping) Truly a great Subwoofer and puts out true SPL's at 20hz. This is something many Subwoofers costing twice as much cannot claim.
> 
> The MKIII is actually an earlier generation VTF-3 with just 50 Watts less power. In other words, it is almost identical to the close to 1000 Dollar VTF-3 MKII and that Subwoofer was a superb value at its selling price which makes the VTF-2 MKIII a truly special value. I have Setup and listened to at least a dozen of them and they are amazing.
> ...


Hello
I have checked in my country about VTF-2MKIII, its has no any dealer import this one. And can't test the sound
what is that like ( I mean sound ) ? If I order this one I only pay $509 and $63 or not, I have no experience buy across the country.

Thanks.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Gotcha. Without knowing what Country you are in, it is hard for us to know what Brands you have access to.
I would go and listen to some Subwoofers in your Country.
Cheers,
JJ


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

gdstupak said:


> Scott (smurphy522) was not advising that you "need" more power.
> He was suggesting that your current AVR should be fine, but a more powerful amplifier could make it better than it is.
> It's as if you have a perfectly fine 'normal' car already, it does the job properly. Then buying a new sports car is not necessary, but it would be funner to drive.
> 
> ...


Hello, I misunderstood so I got it. Thank you for your explained again.
Cheers,
Q


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Gotcha. Without knowing what Country you are in, it is hard for us to know what Brands you have access to.
> I would go and listen to some Subwoofers in your Country.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Hello

I live Thailand their are many brands such as martin, paradigm, polk, monitor, infinity, velodyne. 
That's all I knew. So if I use the sub woofer low price than my speakers, is that possible ?

Thanks already
Q


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
There are certainly Subwoofers less expensive than Loudspeakers. Just tell us what you have access to and is in your budget and we can discuss the merits of them.
Cheers,
JJ


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> There are certainly Subwoofers less expensive than Loudspeakers. Just tell us what you have access to and is in your budget and we can discuss the merits of them.
> Cheers,
> JJ


็Hello

Its long time I did not get in this site, I'm not sure about the budget, 300-700 $ is that enough for
my system. 

Thanks again
Q


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## FLAudioGuy (Sep 21, 2011)

The Onkyo TX-SR608 receiver is basically a [email protected]% THD amplifier. The "Dynamic" power listed best case is only 240W/[email protected]Ω and 120W/[email protected]Ω, both are unspecified as to distortion that I could find. Since 23.8dBW-20=3.8dB and 20.79-20=.79dB, this is essentially a "headroom-less" amplifier. Considering the speakers are 90dBSPL (1W/M) don't expect much more than 112dBSPL from them and that may even be at a considerable distortion level. Even going to a 200W/Ch (23dBW) only gains you 3dB but is a bit more power than than the speakers are rated for at 170W (22.3dBW), again no real specs there. Since Paradigm doesn't specify much more than this it is hard to say what your performance will be. This is a major problem of using low sensitivity speakers with smallish power amps. Coupling will only happen at lower frequencies and be room/location dependent, so expect a fair amount of error in the coverage FR. I would use EQ to only cut nasty frequencies rather than boost anything. Room EQ will only hurt your sound, mostly, and is only good for one transfer-function or it is a compromise for all. Use room treatment instead and maximize the natural performance of your expensive gear. Hippocratic Audio Oath: "Do no harm to the signal", LOL. Since the Onkyo has dual Sub-Outputs, perhaps try dual subs using a 100-120Hz setting on the LFE-LPF (both sub-outs will be affected) for the "main" sub placed near the front speakers (overlapping with the mains a bit, and use the "secondary" subwoofer's built-in XO set lower, perhaps 60-80Hz, and place it elsewhere in the room. I would move it around as much as permissible (WAF) to get the best blend. MonoPrice.com has some lesser expensive subs that seems to have decent build quality and reviews. I know I have simplified a few things in this post for people who may not be so technical. Chers and good luck! :T


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## omix (Aug 2, 2011)

Thanks FLAudioGuy joyee, long time to come this site because i had situation flood in Thailand
Thanks for your suggestions


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## FLAudioGuy (Sep 21, 2011)

omix said:


> Thanks FLAudioGuy joyee, long time to come this site because i had situation flood in Thailand
> Thanks for your suggestions


You are quite welcome Omix and I hope all is well with you and yours in Thailand. Good luck on your audio adventure. Sawadi Kaap :T


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