# Thinkin about the Natalie P's



## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

I've got the itch to build something and I'm thinking about the Natalie P's. I like the design and the price. Has anyone here built them or heard them? They would be replacing my M&K S5000's and would be used primarily for home theater. I would build 5 of them. 

My concern is, of course, I don't want to sell my speakers and end up with something that doesn't sound as good so I was hoping to find some first hand experience.


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## mayhem13 (Feb 2, 2008)

Many xover versions of the NatP and different tweeters as well-all seem to be extremely positive meaning most posts from people who have built em Love em. A lot of favorable reviews of Zaphs BaMTM as well and much cheaper-the drivers for this are at Parts Express 
http://zaphaudio.com/BAMTM.html


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

I have built the NatP towers and I will recommend them highly:T With the picture of the Xover it is simply dummie proof for those of us Xover challenged:dizzy::bigsmile:


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## keelay (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm thinking of building a pair of Nat P's. No more like Itching. Maybe better said twitching...


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## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

I stopped twitching almost 6 months ago. I wanted a CC upgrade but it quickly became much more. The CC was done July 4th weekend, but I'm still working on cabinets for the L-R towers (by Christmas?). I made 3 different XOs for the CC so I can attest to the wide variety of sonic characteristics available via XO options. PE seems to have resolved the RS28A issues. I only see one reason not to...

Since I've never heard the S5000's, or NatPs as a system yet, I can't say which will sound better. Your M&Ks are reviewed like very good speakers, but from a prior era. I have no complaints about my Advents, but want a matched LCR set and figured there had to be advances in the 30+ years I've had these. I'm also replacing $110 speakers. Your S5000s are a ~15 year old design, but were far more expensive and are THX-certified. A more-advanced design may be necessary if you want a truly noticable upgrade. 

Have fun,
Frank


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

The NatP's are great little speakers. If I was to do it again I would spend the extra and make the Modulas though.


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## jliedeka (May 27, 2008)

I'm also going to build Natalie Ps. I saw that there are at least six possible crossovers for that driver configuration. I chose the NatP because it looks pretty good and this will be my first try at building speakers and crossovers. If I knew what I was doing, I might try Roman Bednarek's 2.5 way crossover.

Jim


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## keelay (Dec 11, 2008)

jliedeka said:


> I'm also going to build Natalie Ps. I saw that there are at least six possible crossovers for that driver configuration. I chose the NatP because it looks pretty good and this will be my first try at building speakers and crossovers. If I knew what I was doing, I might try Roman Bednarek's 2.5 way crossover.
> 
> Jim


Has anyone done a recent parts check (parts express) to find out the difference in cost between the nat p and the modula MTM?

Based on reviews, I'd rather do the Modula too, but am concerned about the parts count from a cost perspective.


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## keelay (Dec 11, 2008)

OK so I ran two parts counts. One for Natalie P and one For Modula MTM (Both RS28a tweeter variant)

The difference? 

*$210.55*

Ouch. Anyone heard the Modula MTM's with the opinion that they are worth $210 more than the nat p's?

Here's my parts lists:
*
Natalie P: (Parts Express)*
Part #	Qty	Price Each	Extended	
004-20 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-20 20 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor 
004-6 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-6.0 6 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor 
016-.47 2	$0.39 $0.78 0.47 Ohm 10W Resistor 
027-536 2	$2.94 $5.88 Solen 2.2uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-542 4	$3.19 $12.76 Solen 3.0uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-568 2	$6.26 $12.52 Solen 10uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-572 2	$7.03 $14.06 Solen 12uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-578 4	$8.45 $33.80 Solen 16uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-586 2	$11.33 $22.66 Solen 24uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
081-425 2	$2.35 $2.35 #8 x 1" Deep Thread Pan Head Screws Black 100 Pcs. 
260-303 2	$3.49 $6.98 Speaker Terminal with Binding Posts 
266-355 2	$21.10 $42.20 1.2mH 14 AWG Perfect Layer Inductor 
255-034 2	$4.79 $9.58 Jantzen 0.45mH 20 AWG Air Core Inductor 
255-400 2	$7.40 $14.80 Jantzen 0.20mH 15 AWG Air Core Inductor 
295-364 4	$35.00 $140.00 Dayton RS180S-8 7" Reference Shielded Woofer 8 Ohm 
275-130 2	$48.65 $97.30 Dayton RS28A-4 1-1/8" Aluminum Dome Tweeter 
Total	$420.67 


*Modula MTM: (Parts Express)*
Part #	Qty	Price Each	Extended	
004-1 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-1.0 1 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor 
004-4 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-4.0 4 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor 
004-6 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-6.0 6 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor 
004-8 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-8.0 8 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor 
027-542 2	$3.19 $6.38 Solen 3.0uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-552 2	$3.88 $7.76 Solen 4.7uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-560 2	$4.62 $9.24 Solen 6.8uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-568 2	$6.26 $12.52 Solen 10uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-580 2	$8.81 $17.62 Solen 18uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-586 2	$11.33 $22.66 Solen 24uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-590 2	$13.35 $26.70 Solen 30uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-600 2	$18.48 $36.96 Solen 47uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-608 2	$24.31 $48.62 Solen 68uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
027-612 2	$28.05 $56.10 Solen 82uF 400V Polypropylene Capacitor 
004-3 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-3.0 3 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor (add with 3.7 to make 6.7)
004-3.7 2	$1.25 $2.50 Dayton DNR-3.7 3.7 Ohm 10W Precision Audio Grade Resistor (add with 3.0 to make 6.7)
255-402 2	$8.20 $16.40 Jantzen 0.25mH 15 AWG Air Core Inductor 
255-412 2	$11.58 $23.16 Jantzen 0.60mH 15 AWG Air Core Inductor 
255-420 2	$15.32 $30.64 Jantzen 0.91mH 15 AWG Air Core Inductor 
255-424 4	$16.04 $64.16 Jantzen 1.2mH 15 AWG Air Core Inductor 
295-364 4	$35.00 $140.00 Dayton RS180S-8 7" Reference Shielded Woofer 8 Ohm 
275-130 2	$48.65 $97.30 Dayton RS28A-4 1-1/8" Aluminum Dome Tweeter 
Total	$631.22


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## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

jliedeka said:


> I'm also going to build Natalie Ps. I saw that there are at least six possible crossovers for that driver configuration. I chose the NatP because it looks pretty good and this will be my first try at building speakers and crossovers. If I knew what I was doing, I might try Roman Bednarek's 2.5 way crossover.
> 
> Jim


Jim,
2 posts above yours, I mention that I did 3 XO's. Roman's 2.5-way was one of them. You could definitely hear that the two RS180's were being sent different frequency ranges, but I didn't like the voicing, it made the CC stick out. The right choice for me was the no-BSC XO in terms of matching my existing L/R pair. I'm close to done with NatP L/R, and will verify the voice match when I get them up and broken in, but I suspect the 2.5-way will only be good for parts. 

The one downside to a 2.5-way XO is cost - it's 3 individual XO's so it cost 50% more. Let me know if you dicide to go that way.

Have fun,
Frank


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## jliedeka (May 27, 2008)

It will probably be some time before I even think about changing crossovers. I just started cutting the wood for the cabinets. I have the parts to build the regular NatP XO for my front three speakers.

Jim


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## BrianAbington (Mar 19, 2008)

ah yes the downside to DIY...not knowing upfront what the finished product will sound like.


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## jliedeka (May 27, 2008)

I don't see that as a huge minus. You never really know what speakers are going to sound like until you get them set up in your listening room.

The up side of DIY is that if something isn't right, I won't be afraid to try and fix it. It's much easier trying to tweak a design you understand than to try to reverse engineer a XO in a commercial speaker.

Jim


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## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

Jim,
I started with the parts for 2 NatP XO's and a 2.5-way, due to concerns for the lobing issue in a horizontal layout. It was also horizontal to fit in furniture, and that turned out to be the real issue - I was, in effect, wall mounting them. I liked the results with an XO without baffle step compensation.

As long as you have yours on stands out in the open, you want the standard, BSC XO. If they're in close proximity to flat surfaces (like TVs), you'll find your bass is boomy, and the no-BSC XO will fix that.

Have fun,
Frank


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## brijenjas (Apr 27, 2006)

The Natalie P's were my first foray into speaker building. well, technically I didn't build them, I used the PE cabinets that they were designed around.

Excellent sounding speaker, very detailed and plays pretty deep.

And I wouldn't call them "little" as buggers did. they're 22 inches tall in bookshelf form and weigh 40lbs ea.


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## keelay (Dec 11, 2008)

fbov said:


> Jim,
> I started with the parts for 2 NatP XO's and a 2.5-way, due to concerns for the lobing issue in a horizontal layout. It was also horizontal to fit in furniture, and that turned out to be the real issue - I was, in effect, wall mounting them. I liked the results with an XO without baffle step compensation.
> 
> As long as you have yours on stands out in the open, you want the standard, BSC XO. If they're in close proximity to flat surfaces (like TVs), you'll find your bass is boomy, and the no-BSC XO will fix that.
> ...


You wouldn't happen to have a link to the no-BSC XO version would you? I can't seem to find it. I'm building a pair of Nat P's. ... Just ordered the RS180s... but am planning a very near wall arraignment to keep the wife happy.


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## keelay (Dec 11, 2008)

Found it! :nerd: Oh well. I just didn't look hard enough. Here is the non BSC crossover design by Jon Marsh himself. This is for an in-wall or on-wall placement.

http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=22626


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## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

That's exactly the link I would have given you, and the circuit I built for my CC. 

Keep in mind that these two XO designs (BSC and no-BSC) are optimized for placement extremes - 2pi and 4pi radiation patterns correspond to hemispherical and spherical radiation patterns. In-wall certainly meets the 2pi assumptions, but as you move away from the wall into free space, you're inbetween 2pi and 4pi until you get about 3' away (~1/4 wave at 100 Hz) 

All I'm saying is that without a very shallow enclosure, it's hard to get an on-wall design that's really 2pi radiation up to the XO frequency. My application was truly in-wall as the CC is on a shelf in a TV stand surrounded by flat surfaces and only 1' off the floor. 

Frank


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## Tsloms (Oct 25, 2006)

I have built 3 Nat P's which I placed behind my projector screen. They are all laid out on the same 4X8 sheet of plywood with individual boxes behind them. It is wonderful to have a seamless front sound stage that sounds great. I then built 4 Modula Mt's in wedge shaped boxes for surround duty. All speakers use the same woofer and tweeter!!


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## jliedeka (May 27, 2008)

I'm also going to build a pair of Modula MTs for surrounds but I'm just planning to mimic the PE cabinets. I have the drivers for them but no crossover parts. I'm waiting for my Visa card to cool off. 

Jim


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## ModMark (Dec 15, 2008)

Stupid question time, what is a Natalie P? I think it is a modified version of a Part's Express speaker but not sure.

Thanks,

Mark


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## jliedeka (May 27, 2008)

It's essentially the Dr K MTM with a different crossover. Natalie P

Jim


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## ModMark (Dec 15, 2008)

Thanks!

I just pick up a set of Klipsch quintet II, I thought my wife would like the small design but to quote her "I hate them, they look like eyeballs staring at me".

So next project, build one of these:









I not sure how well the quintet will work inside the columns. So my plan is, design the columns for a future speaker upgrade, the Natalie P's seem like a idea solution.

Thanks for listening

Mark


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## jliedeka (May 27, 2008)

If you want the NatPs in a setup like that, you may want to check into the crossover with reduced baffle step.

Jim


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## ModMark (Dec 15, 2008)

Building the actual speakers will depend on other issue such as finding a job 

So my only concern now, have the cabinets already built in, just attach the front with the speakers.

Thanks for the links, I will read up..

Mark


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