# Audyssey, Ypao, or Mcacc



## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Which optimizer is better Audyssey, Ypao, or Mcacc? I know they all have pros and cons but which one is more recommended.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Audyssey has a huge advantage in that it provides EQ on the Subwoofer/LFE Channel whereas YPAO and MCACC do not apply EQ below around 50-60hz. However, if considering an AVR with Audyssey 2EQ which does not EQ the Subwoofer, the advantages to Audyssey are not as clear cut. With any MultEQ, MultEQ XT, and MultEQ XT32 AVR/SSP, there is a major advantage as the Subwoofer is the transducer that many consider most benefits from EQ.
Cheers,
JJ


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

I've been told (but not verified) that there is a different version of YPAO on the flagship Yamaha receivers that does EQ the sub output.

But all things considered, even if spending that much money for the top Yammy receivers, I'd rather get one equipped with Audyssey (hopefully MultiEQ XT, but ideally, MultiEQ XT32, which can EQ two sub channels and is a noticeable improvement over the XT version even with one sub).

Ignoring the sub EQ, I'd go with MCACC over YPAO in a hearbeat. (And Audyssey above all)


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

KalaniP said:


> I've been told (but not verified) that there is a different version of YPAO on the flagship Yamaha receivers that does EQ the sub output.
> 
> But all things considered, even if spending that much money for the top Yammy receivers, I'd rather get one equipped with Audyssey (hopefully MultiEQ XT, but ideally, MultiEQ XT32, which can EQ two sub channels and is a noticeable improvement over the XT version even with one sub).
> 
> Ignoring the sub EQ, I'd go with MCACC over YPAO in a hearbeat. (And Audyssey above all)


Last I read, even on the Aventage Line, was that YPAO does not go all the way down to 20hz. And as an XT32/SubEQ HT Owner, I can tell you what it does on the Subwoofers is nothing short of astonishing. If only using 1 Subwoofer, the TX-NR818 offers MultEQ XT32, but does not include SubEQ HT. This is actually the first XT32 AVR/SSP that I am aware of that does not offer SubEQ. That being said, with a single Subwoofer, it really does not make a big difference.

The last MCACC AVR I owned was actually the first AVR offered with MCACC or any sort of Room EQ for that matter in the VSX-49tx. It really is a classic and weighs almost 80 Pounds out of the box. I really do miss the era when Flagship AVR's were commonplace. Sadly, Denon soon will be offering the forthcoming AVR-4313 as the Flagship and it weighs around 60 Pounds less than the gonzo AVR-5805. Pioneer is no longer offering the SC-09tx (Susano), Yamaha is no longer making the RX-Z Series, Marantz no longer offers Reference AVR's, etc. Onkyo is the only one left still making new THX Ultra2 Plus AVR's at this point. While you can still get the Denon AVR-5308CI for $5500 and then spend another $1000 to have it upgraded to Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT and 3D Passthrough, but they are about to stop offering this AVR and it is around a 4 year old Design. At least in the US. It all seems to do with the economic downturn....


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Audyssey has a huge advantage in that it provides EQ on the Subwoofer/LFE Channel whereas YPAO and MCACC do not apply EQ below around 50-60hz. However, if considering an AVR with Audyssey 2EQ which does not EQ the Subwoofer, the advantages to Audyssey are not as clear cut. With any MultEQ, MultEQ XT, and MultEQ XT32 AVR/SSP, there is a major advantage as the Subwoofer is the transducer that many consider most benefits from EQ.
> Cheers,
> JJ


My avr is Denon with Audyssey Multeq. Will it benefit to upgrade to the XT version?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
MultEQ XT certainly offers more processing and filtering. Even better, if all loudspeakers are set to 80hz, it actually provisions more processing/filtering to the Subwoofer/LFE. Personally, I would grab an Onkyo TX-NR709 as the replacement has been announced and well might have been released so there should be some great deals out there. Moreover, the replacement TX-NR717 amazingly moves the MSRP to $999 while downgrading from MultEQ XT all the way down to 2EQ. 

This is an action that has me dumbfounded as the TX-NR709 offered everything needed for a fantastic HT. It offered Preamp Outputs for adding Outboard Power Amplifiers, MultEQ XT, Marvell's excellent Qdeo Video Processing, an excellent Amplifier Stage, THX Post Processing, and about every form of processing out there. And was easily found from Authorized Dealers for around $500. 
Cheers,
J


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

Jack is right on with his recommendations.

Audyssey XT32 and XT are the ways to go. I had great results with MCACC but as JJ has already pointed out it did nothing to the sub channel.

I didn't see Jack mention it but I know he knows about it as he has a Sherwood Newcastle R-972 which includes Trinnov. I just recently picked up one as well and so far Trinnov is really slick and for the price they are being blown out at it's a no brainer if you can put up with the quirks. Trinnov doesn't do as good a job on the subs as Audyssey XT32 but what it does for speakers sounds remarkable.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Agreed, the 972 with Trinnov is a no brainier if your ok with some of the quirks. Audyssey is fantastic over all but only if you go with XT or better otherwise it really makes no difference.


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## climber07 (Apr 26, 2012)

I agree. I just picked up an Onkyo TX-NR3009 and I am very impressed with the Audyssey XT32 EQ. The only thing I changed after running the XT32 setup was crossover points for my speakers. I raised it to their -3dB point for the center and surrounds and lowered it to Full Range for my towers.


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## pxj (Jun 10, 2011)

Sometimes which is better depends on your room, the dimensions and what's in it. Also for room correction lets not forget ARC ( Anthem) and JBL's 'ARCOS Adaptive Room Correction and Optimization System' which is a stand alone hardware and software system.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

I have owned MCACC/Audyssey XT & XT32. Both Audyssey's are far better then MCACC specifically regarding LFE. Cannot comment on the others.


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## popalock (May 19, 2012)

asere said:


> Which optimizer is better Audyssey, Ypao, or Mcacc? I know they all have pros and cons but which one is more recommended.


Tell us your plans and what you have been researching/considering? 

I recently purchased the Pio SC-57. Now that i've put in a ton of research i've been kicking myself ever since for not going with the Denon 4311. They are comparable in almost every way, except for Audyssey vs. MCAAC. If I could do it all over again I would go for the Denon or at least be sure whatever I purchased had XT32.

I personally am a LFE junkie so my bias toward Audyssey is strictly because of the multi-subEQ function. If you were to take away that, I'm sure it would even the playing field. My take...


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

popalock said:


> Tell us your plans and what you have been researching/considering?
> 
> I recently purchased the Pio SC-57. Now that i've put in a ton of research i've been kicking myself ever since for not going with the Denon 4311. They are comparable in almost every way, except for Audyssey vs. MCAAC. If I could do it all over again I would go for the Denon or at least be sure whatever I purchased had XT32.
> 
> I personally am a LFE junkie so my bias toward Audyssey is strictly because of the multi-subEQ function. If you were to take away that, I'm sure it would even the playing field. My take...


I have in ceiling speakers and my current Denon has Audyssey Multeq and was looking at upgrading to XT if it made a difference. I am not sure I can afford right now the XT32.
My speakers are brand Profficient and specs for Left,Right are 40hz-20khz and Center is 36hz-22khz.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

pxj said:


> Sometimes which is better depends on your room, the dimensions and what's in it. Also for room correction lets not forget ARC ( Anthem) and JBL's 'ARCOS Adaptive Room Correction and Optimization System' which is a stand alone hardware and software system.


Indeed. I need to think of and include ARC in my Posts. Same with ARCOS.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

As I have never heard the results of ARC and ARCOS what do they offer thats different/better than the others?


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

OP, JJ is always spot on with questions like this. I will also add that I love my Advanced MCACC with non sub measurement set aside here. The reasons are this, multi point standing wave measuring within the professional program, huge adjustability with time delays and reverb measurement with PC 3D viewing just to name a few. The Expert program does a really great job in itself but the professional program for me is where its at. There is so much to play with for someone like me who can spend hours messing with all these features. Just thought i'd share my opinion.



Brian in Bakersfield...:T


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## gotchaforce (Dec 11, 2008)

Jungle Jack said:


> Indeed. I need to think of and include ARC in my Posts. Same with ARCOS.


On page 1 i was getting ready to ask you about ARC and your thoughts on it... 

the other question is i have a DSP so i can use parametric EQ, do i even need any of these auto EQs?


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## gotchaforce (Dec 11, 2008)

hearingspecialist said:


> OP, JJ is always spot on with questions like this. I will also add that I love my Advanced MCACC with non sub measurement set aside here. The reasons are this, multi point standing wave measuring within the professional program, huge adjustability with time delays and reverb measurement with PC 3D viewing just to name a few. The Expert program does a really great job in itself but the professional program for me is where its at. There is so much to play with for someone like me who can spend hours messing with all these features. Just thought i'd share my opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> Brian in Bakersfield...:T


Are there any youtube videos of this "3d viewing"? Which pioneer receivers have this advanced MCACC? Ive setup mcacc but never seen the advanced setup... im always interested in just how extensive the options for these things are. My old onkyo with multi eq XT had NO options really..


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

gotchaforce said:


> the other question is i have a DSP so i can use parametric EQ, do i even need any of these auto EQs?


The DSP is great for fine tuning but the auto room EQs do alot more than just EQ, they set distance, delay and crossovers. Something that a DSP cant do. And because you measure the room in multiple positions you get a much better average of the entire space.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

gotchaforce said:


> Are there any youtube videos of this "3d viewing"? Which pioneer receivers have this advanced MCACC? Ive setup mcacc but never seen the advanced setup... im always interested in just how extensive the options for these things are. My old onkyo with multi eq XT had NO options really..


Audessey also has this available as a "pro" option but these are not free and cost money to get access.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Do receivers have ARC and ARCO?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I assume you mean Audio Return Channel but don't know what you mean by ARCO. Receivers with HDMI 1.4 should have it, but you need to check the specs on any particular receiver to know what they have. I would suggest starting a new thread for your question. This makes it more likely that someone knowing the answer will see it and keeps this thread on topic.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
ARC is excellent, but I do find it to be not nearly as user friendly as Audyssey and others. You really need to use a Laptop to get the best out of it and I find it easier to mess up to procedure. If technically inclined or having the Dealer Install it, it is a good alternative. I have little experience with JBL's EQ so cannot make any real statements about it good or bad.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

asere said:


> Do receivers have ARC and ARCO?


The Anthem receivers have ARC (Anthem Room Correction) but, afaik, no AVRs have ARCOS which is found only in JBL Synthesis equipment.

IMHO, ARC is fully competitive with MultEQ XT in performance but it requires use of a PC.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

What is better Arc or Audyssey? Pros and Cons?


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

gotcha, here is a link but I can't remember if the youtube shows the PC stuff. You basically transfer your room correction data to a flash drive on your receiver and with the Pioneer program you download from their site you view reverb measures in 2D or 3D. You see before and after with also a group delay tab. You can print all the data and graphs to reference when tweaking adjustments. I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-30 and there are threads from my experience when I first purchased it in the processing section. I just typed in advanced mcacc in youtube and this is what came up first video:


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

asere said:


> What is better Arc or Audyssey? Pros and Cons?


Lots of variables but they are not how I would choose an AVR or processor as they are almost a wash. I have covered and compared them in my columns.


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