# Considering the PS3 for my Blu-ray player...



## Sonnie

If I go the PS3 route... is this about all I need:

PlayStation 3 80GB Motorstorm Pack $499











PlayStation 3 Blu Wave Remote $14











PlayStation 3 Wireless Sixaxis Controller $42











I figure I may as well grab the extra controller just in case our daughter has some company all along. 


I assume there's really no discounts to be had on the PS3.


I wonder if anyone if offering any coupons anywhere.


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Where ever you get one if you go this route make sure you can get an extended warranty. Not because they have problems or anything, but because it's an expensive piece of gear (compared to the nowadays disposable DVD player prices). Piece of mind is always worth it if you ask me. Definitely stay away from the 40GB version.


Also here's the list of the five free offer you get to pick from- 
Category 1

The Prestige
Wild Hogs
Pirates of the Carribean:
Curse of the Black Pearl
Category 2

Swordfish
Superman: The Movie
Full Metal Jacket
Category 3

Stir of Echoes
American Psycho
The Devil's Rejects
Category 4

The Patriot
S.W.A.T.
Ultraviolet
Category 5

Chain Reaction
Omen 666
Flight of the Phoenix
Species
Hart's War
The Last Waltz


Just like the HD DVD free movie offers, not many good ones listed.


[img]http://s96.photobucket.com/albums/l190/wbassett/HTS/th_mybook1.jpg[/img]

Also and not now, but if you decide on a PS3, add this to your list of future items... I like the My Book drives, but any USB 2 external drive will work. These are great for storing your TV Episode DVDs all in one spot or movie trilogies, things like that, and it's like using a DVR in that respect- Just navigate to what you want to watch and click play. 

Oh, it upconverts these video files as well...


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## Ayreonaut

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

You can play media from an external drive with the PS3? Cool!

I read in several places that a firmware update is coming that will enable the PS3 to output 1080p24 via HDMI.

Here's my scheme:

PlayStation 3 -> HDMI 1.3a (1080p24 & 7.1 PCM) -> Denon AVR-1908 -> Sony KDS-50A3000

Will this work?


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



Ayreonaut said:


> You can play media from an external drive with the PS3? Cool!


yepperdoodle you sure can, and it even upconverts to 1080p  

I've been doing this for 6-8 months now.


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## Ayreonaut

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Does it play ISO files? FLAC?


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## Sonnie

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

It's my understanding that the PS3 already outputs 1024p/24 via HDMI.


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## Ayreonaut

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I found this:


> The following types of files can be displayed under
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Photo).
> JPEG (DCF 2.0/Exif 2.21 compliant)
> TIFF
> BMP
> GIF
> PNG
> The following types of files can be played under
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Music).
> Memory Stick Audio Format(ATRAC)
> MP3(MPEG-1/2 Audio Layer 3)
> MP4(MPEG-4 AAC)
> WAVE(Linear PCM)
> WMA
> The following types of files can be played under
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (Video).
> Memory Stick Video Format
> - MPEG-4 SP (AAC LC)
> - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC Main Profile (AAC LC)
> MP4 file format
> - H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile (AAC LC)
> MPEG-1 (MPEG Audio Layer 2)
> MPEG-2 PS (MPEG2 Audio Layer 2, AAC LC, AC3(Dolby Digital), LPCM)
> MPEG-2 TS (MPEG2 Audio Layer 2)
> AVI
> - Motion JPEG (Linear PCM)
> - Motion JPEG (μ-Law)
> AVCHD （.m2ts / .mts）
> DivX
> WMV
> - VC-1（WMA Standard V2)


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## Ayreonaut

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Sonnie, you're right. Hooray!

I found this in the manual:


> *BD 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI)*
> 
> Set whether to use 1080p 24 Hz video output mode for output of BD video. Set this option when the system is connected to a TV using an HDMI cable. Adjust the settings as necessary for the TV in use.
> 
> * Automatic* Set to automatically switch the video output mode to match the TV that is connected.
> 
> * Off* Set to output at the maximum resolution that has been selected in the video output settings of the PS3™ system. (The video output will not be displayed at 1080p 24 Hz.)
> 
> * On* Set to output BD video that was recorded at 1080p 24 Hz directly at a resolution of 1080p 24 Hz. *
> 
> Hints*
> The TV or AV amplifier (receiver) in use must support 1080p 24 Hz video mode. For details, refer to the instructions supplied with the device.
> The Blu-ray Disc (BD) that is to be played must also support 1080p 24 Hz video mode. In most cases, video is recorded at 1080p 24 Hz resolution for commercially available BD video software (BD-ROMs) for which "1080p" is displayed as the recording mode.
> If the video output settings do not match the TV in use, video may not be displayed on the screen when the resolution changes. However, the setting will automatically reset to the original resolution after a short while. If nothing is displayed on the screen for more than 30 seconds, turn off the system, and then turn it on again.
> If video does not display correctly when [Automatic] or [On] is selected, set this option to [Off].


http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/bdsettings.html#2462


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## Ayreonaut

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

And this concerning the PS3's decoding capabilities:


> Channels that can be used for output - HDMI - 7.1 Ch.
> 
> *1 A device compatible with Linear PCM 7.1. Ch. is required to output 7.1 Ch. audio from the HDMI OUT connector.
> 
> *2 The system does not support output from DTS-HD 7.1 Ch. DTS-HD 7.1 Ch. audio is output from 5.1 or a lower channel.


http://manuals.playstation.net/document/en/ps3/current/settings/audiooutput.html


> ** Dolby TrueHD can still be decoded inside the PS3 and sent as uncompressed audio to the AV receiver, but if the AV receiver has an integrated decoder it can't be used instead of the PS3's decoder. **
> 
> ** This was confirmed by a Sony representative.**


http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08/no-dolby-truehd-or-dts-hd-for-ps3-owners/


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## HomeTeam

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



wbassett said:


> Piece of mind is always worth it if you ask me. Definitely stay away from the 40GB version.


What's wrong with the 40 GB version? I was thinking of getting that one mainly for the Blu-Ray and since I'm not a big gamer (I'm only looking foward to Metal Gear Solid 4) I figure that'll be the best one for me.


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## Hakka

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I see there area few references to the ps3 being HDMI v1.3 compliant, this is not the case. The HDMI transmitter chip inside the PS3 is only v1.2.
The PS3 will never be able to bitstream TrueHD and DTS Master to a compatible AVR.
It is possible that the PS3 will be firmware upgraded to decode DTS-MA and pass it as linear PCM.

Hakka.


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## John Simpson

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



Hakka said:


> I see there area few references to the ps3 being HDMI v1.3 compliant, this is not the case. The HDMI transmitter chip inside the PS3 is only v1.2.
> The PS3 will never be able to bitstream TrueHD and DTS Master to a compatible AVR.
> It is possible that the PS3 will be firmware upgraded to decode DTS-MA and pass it as linear PCM.


Hak, is there any way we can absolutely confirm this? I did a Google search and found a number of articles claiming the PS3 was the first consumer product to have HDMI 1.3a, and I'm almost certain that's what's in the manual too (although I can't seem to find mine -- handy!).

Are you sure you don't mean the XBox 360? That's HDMI 1.2, I believe... :scratchhead:

Not arguing with you -- just intrigued to know!


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Everything I have read and manual states it is 1.3.


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## Hakka

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007/05/08/does-the-ps3-really-have-hdmi-13/

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08/no-dolby-truehd-or-dts-hd-for-ps3-owners/

The hardware is not capable of transmitting HD bitstream audio, although technically it is a v1.3 port, it doesn't support all the 1.3 features. This is not something that can be fixed by a firmware upgrade.

Sony reps have acknowledged that this is correct.

Hakka.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I've been scanning Craigslist for PS3's and I've found a 60gb for $400 (I'm offering $350). I really can't find a whole lot of info on the 60gb version, though. Do they even sell them anymore? What is the actual price on them? All I could find was preliminary pricing info. 

I think I'm gonna go the PS3 route, makes good sense to me, but I'm not sure what I should spend. (I don't feel like paying full price)


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## MrPorterhouse

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



yourgrandma said:


> I've been scanning Craigslist for PS3's and I've found a 60gb for $400 (I'm offering $350). I really can't find a whole lot of info on the 60gb version, though. Do they even sell them anymore? What is the actual price on them? All I could find was preliminary pricing info.
> 
> I think I'm gonna go the PS3 route, makes good sense to me, but I'm not sure what I should spend. (I don't feel like paying full price)


I bought a 60GB PS3 right around launch in Dec 2006. It has been flawless since day one. Its built like a tank and has all the bells and whistles, including the Compact Flash, SD Card adapters on the front panel, and actual hardware to play the older PS2 games, not just software emmulation like they use in the 80GB PS3. The 60GB version is the way to go if possible.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Word. Hopefully I can still get it. I sent an email, but haven't gotten a reply yet. I can get 720p out of it wit component, right? I don't have HDMI switching and haven't gotten a switch and cable yet, so for the time being I'd be using component video. 

How does it's upconversion compare to, say, a Denon DVD-1920? I know I'll be keeping that to play DVD-A anyway, but should I bother with using HDMI on both the PS3 and DVD player?

Sorry, Sonnie, I don't want to jack your thread. I think these questions will help us both out, though.


EDIT: I got a reply and he still has it. Is $350 reasonable? He says it's basically brand new. His first one pooped out on him and Sony sent him a replacement that he rarely uses, and is thus selling.


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## MrPorterhouse

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



yourgrandma said:


> Word. Hopefully I can still get it. I sent an email, but haven't gotten a reply yet. I can get 720p out of it wit component, right? I don't have HDMI switching and haven't gotten a switch and cable yet, so for the time being I'd be using component video.
> How does it's upconversion compare to, say, a Denon DVD-1920? I know I'll be keeping that to play DVD-A anyway, but should I bother with using HDMI on both the PS3 and DVD player?
> 
> Sorry, Sonnie, I don't want to jack your thread. I think these questions will help us both out, though.
> 
> 
> EDIT: I got a reply and he still has it. Is $350 reasonable? He says it's basically brand new. His first one pooped out on him and Sony sent him a replacement that he rarely uses, and is thus selling.


$350 is a fair price. I paid $599 for mine and I'd pay that all over again. I am VERY HAPPY with it! If you are looking for a fantastic Blu-ray player, I'd still recommend the PS3 over anything else under $1000. Now, that Marantz looks awesome, but for $2500, I would hope it is.


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## Sonnie

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I agree... $350 sounds like a great price.

I'm still considering the 1400 and am having a hard time deciding. One minute I think PS3, the next 1400. Supposedly firmware updates have the 1400 up to par and it does have the Reon processor in it.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Well shucks! The guy selling the 60gb PS3 sold it today. Do they even make them anymore? From what I'm hearing, the 60gb is the best option. Are the others actually not compatible with ps2 games? I guess I won't be getting into high def after all. (Moans in disgust)


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I've been doing some homework and the 60gb PS3 is no longer produced. In order to get PS2 game compatability, I'd need an 80gb. Way to reward repeat business, Sony. Thanks. I really cant think of any reason I need any hard drive space, so this bothers me. $500 is sort of a lot for me right now, especially for a game consol. I'm doing some more shopping.

EDIT: Ya know, I'm looking at the other BD players, and I guess I'll just have to get the infernal PS3. It just bugs me that I'm buying another computer.


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## Ayreonaut

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

In what way would bitstreaming the undecoded audio to the receiver be better than decoding them to multichannel PCM in the player first?


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



HomeTeam said:


> What's wrong with the 40 GB version? I was thinking of getting that one mainly for the Blu-Ray and since I'm not a big gamer (I'm only looking foward to Metal Gear Solid 4) I figure that'll be the best one for me.


The 40GB version is a total redesign. It has some different chipsets and no longer has backwards compatability for PS2 games. It also only has two USB ports and dropped the card reader.

Those alone aren't a problem as far as it being a BD player, but some people have reported problems with it playing all BD movies, and also some reports of it acting up after a firmware update. I'm sure they'll straighten it out, maybe with a special FW update for this particular unit. 

Keep in mind not everyone has reported a problem with it so it could be something with a specific lot that was manufactured. Based on that I personally would stay away from it and go with the 80GB version for now.


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



Hakka said:


> http://formatwarcentral.com/index.php/2007/05/08/does-the-ps3-really-have-hdmi-13/
> 
> http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/05/08/no-dolby-truehd-or-dts-hd-for-ps3-owners/
> 
> The hardware is not capable of transmitting HD bitstream audio, although technically it is a v1.3 port, it doesn't support all the 1.3 features. This is not something that can be fixed by a firmware upgrade.
> 
> Sony reps have acknowledged that this is correct.
> 
> Hakka.


I'll check on this some more too, I don't think though that this precludes it from being 1.3 compatible. The PS3 decodes it internally and then sends it. I guess it comes down to which does a better job, the PS3 or the receiver. I do agree that it takes away the option of letting the receiver do the work for those that want to go that route and limiting options always ends up rubbing some the wrong way.

If it truly isn't 1.3 compatible and compliant, then yes, Sony has some explaining to do and maybe even refunds or rebates since some people (myself included) looked at it being listed as 1.3 capable as part of the purchase decision.


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## bobgpsr

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

The PS3 does have HDMI version 1.3

Just that it does not implement everything in ver 1.3 -- there is no requirement to do so.

From what I have read the hardware issue with it sending bitstream has to do with the HDMI output driver chip. The *Silicon Image Si9132 chip used in the PS3 cannot transmit advanced audio codec raw bitstream*. I'm waiting to hear when Sony changes the the chip to the Si9134 which can.


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



Ayreonaut said:


> In what way would bitstreaming the undecoded audio to the receiver be better than decoding them to multichannel PCM in the player first?


The only thing I can see right now is if the receiver does a better job at decoding than the player. For majority of people it most likely won't make a difference or matter to them, but I agree it should have been left as a user option.

Unless there is a physical limitation with the PS3, this may be something that can be addressed with a future update. 

This part is going to be my personal opinion on the PS3 and Sony, so take this with a grain of salt-

When I bought my PS3, BD players were still floundering and very buggy. In fact the Samsung in the store went belly up just moving it so we could demo some discs on a TV I was interested in. It worked fine until it was powered down, unplugged and moved and then it wouldn't read any disc we tried and the store associate tried three or four different BD discs including the original demo disc that the unit was playing in its original display. They did have Sony's flagship player, but at that time it was something like $899 and I wasn't about to pay that much, so I went with the PS3.

When I got home I found out it would not upconvert SDVD (even though the store employees said it would). I was more than a bit miffed about this, but it has since been resolved with a firmware update. That part isn't opinion or speculation, it's this next part and comment... I think Sony did it intentionally.

Let me explain why I feel that way. Sony had two systems out, the PS3 which they knew was going to sell like hotcakes to the gaming community, but as we all know it also plays Bluray discs. However Sony was also trying to push their flagship BD player as the best Bluray player out there. The PS3, if all features and functionality were enabled right from the start would have mopped the floor with their own BD player that they were trying to sell. In a sense they were actually competing with themself so they crippled the PS3 to make the stand alone BD player a better player with more features and functionality.

Over time they released firmware updates to unlock functions within the PS3, but I firmly feel their first concern is their stand alone players. If you think about it that makes sense. Personally I think they should have made the PS3 look like any other peice of HT gear so it would integrate nicely with any decor, but for those wanting to play games it could also do that as well. They would then have had one system and expense instead of two BD players, which one just happens to be able to play games as well.

That actually wouldn't be a new concept. Years ago Pioneer tried that with one of their laser disc players. It had a modular slot where you could put in different console 'modules' and play games right from your laser disc player. It was a day late and dollar short though because DVD had already come out and laser disc was already being abandoned since DVD was superior and less expensive. (Anyone else remember those $40 or higher Laser disc prices on some titles?  )

So yes, I do feel Sony keeps the PS3 down in some ways. They (Sony) love it being included in the overall list of BD players sold, but they don't exactly want to treat it as a dedicated player, and yes some people bought it solely as a Bluray player and not to play games. Again this is my opinion... aside from not having dedicated 5.1 Analog Outputs, but not all players have that feature either, the PS3 really is a power house and one of the few units that will be able to go from first generation player through all the profiles. 

I don't think the internal decoding is a reason to shy away from the PS3. When I bought my PS3 I called Sony and they said they had no idea if the PS3 would be able to upconvert SDVD or if/when a firmware update to enable it would be released. I'll be looking into if there is a hardware reason why the PS3 can't pass undecoded audio to the receiver, but right now I can't say for certain and think it also will be something that will be 'unlocked' with a future FW update... but I could very well be wrong and maybe it will never be able to do it.

Edit:
Bob just answered this as far if it ever will be able to do it... sounds like future consoles but not current ones.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I think Sony uses Criple Ware all over the place to wedge people into buying the more expensive models.

I suppose it does a better job of upconverting than my Denon DVD-1920, with it's big ole processor. I'm going to keep the DVD player for DVD-A and SACD, but I also would like to avoid using the ps3 all the time. Remember what happened to PS2s when people uswed them as dvd players? I never did with mine, but everyone I know who did reported that it just quit working altogether.


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



yourgrandma said:


> Remember what happened to PS2s when people uswed them as dvd players? I never did with mine, but everyone I know who did reported that it just quit working altogether.


I can report that I've had my PS3 on for hours at a time with no problems. In fact we went to PA over Halloween and when I came home the PS3 was powered on. I think maybe the cat may have turned it on by touching the on pad... no matter though, it was on for at least a solid day and maybe even as long as a week by the time we got home.

I was worried about it over heating when I first got it, but so far I've had it a year and not one hiccup.


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## MrPorterhouse

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



yourgrandma said:


> I think Sony uses Criple Ware all over the place to wedge people into buying the more expensive models.
> 
> I suppose it does a better job of upconverting than my Denon DVD-1920, with it's big ole processor. I'm going to keep the DVD player for DVD-A and SACD, but I also would like to avoid using the ps3 all the time. Remember what happened to PS2s when people uswed them as dvd players? I never did with mine, but everyone I know who did reported that it just quit working altogether.


I bought a PS2 back in 2000 and used it as my DVD player for 3 years. Never had a single problem. I always took care of my equipment and didn't bash it up like many times happens to video game consoles. 

As far as the 40GB PS3, in addition to the above, I believe that Sony dropped the SACD support. SACD is only offered on the 80GB, and the older 20GB and 60GB versions. 

I also believe that Sony based the chipset on the SI9132, but it was a modified 9132 chip. The exact functions and capability are not public, but it is still speculated that the PS3 will not be able to pass bitstream high rez audio. The PS3 will instead decode onboard and send out as PCM, which is actually more compatible with legacy HDMI 1.1 receivers out there. You won't need a receiver that has the new audio decoders. People were worried(back in 2006) that Sony was going to ONLY offer bitstream output, which would force consumers to upgrade their HDMI 1.1 equipment. It turns out(by total consequence) that Sony has actually offered a more universal route to consumers.


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## bobgpsr

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



MrPorterhouse said:


> II also believe that Sony based the chipset on the SI9132, but it was a modified 9132 chip.


Why was it modified -- when the part on the circuit board says SiI9132?
Otherwise known as the Silicon Image SiI9132 VastLane Gaming transmitter.

Read this or this.


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## Hakka

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

The ps3 supports the deep color features of HDMI 1.3, unfortunately neither BluRay or HDDVD use deep color. 

Hakka.


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## bobgpsr

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



Hakka said:


> The ps3 supports the deep color features of HDMI 1.3, unfortunately neither BluRay or HDDVD use deep color.


But games or video post processing can use Deep Color -- FWIW.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

One last question before I go pick this bad boy up. Will I be able to get 720p through component video? I don't have an HDMI cable long enough to run to my PJ (at all actually), so I would be most disappointed if I had to wait a week to get HD.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Sonnie, did you ever decide what to do?

I'm starting to regret my purchace, as my failure to do my homework has led to the rather startling discovery that the PS3 is no better for audio than a SD DVD player. Looks like I wont be selling the Denon to get the Onkyo...


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## Funkmonkey

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Looks like this thread has talked me into waiting to purchase a PS3 a little longer. I've been torn between PS3 or replacing my oppo 981 (nice player but mine was defective) with a 980, or wait a bit and get the upcoming 983, all for SD-DVD upconversion. The perk w/ the PS3 for me would be Blu-Ray, but since it lacks the audio side on Blu-Ray I guess I am going to wait a bit longer... 

Anyone hear about any new (or upcoming) standalone Blu-Ray players that are exceptional?


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## Sonnie

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I ordered the PS3.

Why is your PS3 not giving you the audio you want?


EDIT: Oh... okay... now I remember, you have the 3803 and it doesn't have HDMI. You just need to upgrade your receiver. I thought you were going to get the Onkyo 805 or 875.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

I am getting an 805, but the PS3 is NOT capable of sending DTS MA. I've been getting conflicting answers to the question of whether it will send any 7.1 sound. It also does not allow for outboard processing (who cares). 

Currently the system limitation for me is the receiver, but when that is replaced, the PS3 will be applying it's evil sony crippleware to my system.

The problem may or may not be resolved by a firmware update in the near future, depending on who you ask. Some say the issue is hardware, but the PS3 should be able to do anything the software asks it to, as it runs a regular computer chipset. However the issue may not actually lie in the decoding, but rather the HDMI chip. 

All this sounds to me like a great way for sony to make a potentially great product mediocre to prop up sales of another product.

I just hope I don't end up wasting my rear surrounds. 

I'll be posting post processing questions tomorrow in the AVR subforum.


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## Sonnie

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Is anything sending DTS-MA and is there anything capable of decoding it at this point?


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Sound and Vision still rates the PS3 as one of the best Bluray players. It's also been tested along side the Pioneer Elite Bluray player in other magazines and given equal performance ratings.

In the January 2008 issue of S&V:


Sound&Vision said:


> Everyone knows the PlayStation 3 as a cutting-edge game console,but a lot of people don't know that it's one of the best high-def Blu-ray Disc players available. When Al Griffin decided it was Certified & Recommended worthy, he said, "Most Blu-ray Discs that I watched with the PS3 looked stunningly good [and] my audio experiences with the PS3 were equally powerful."
> 
> He enthusiastically concluded, "With its crisp 1080p Blu-ray Disc playback, wide-ranging audio options, and mounds of other network and gaming features, the Sony PlayStation 3 is nothing short of awesome... Sony's PS3 game console is one of the most exciting, well-executed home theater products I've laid my hands on in a long time."


S&V gives equally impressive praises and reviews of Toshiba's XA2 HD DVD player so I don't see a bias towards one or the other. In fact they still list the XA2 as one of their recommendation options when building a Home Theater.

In April of 2007 Home Theater Magazine did a comparison between the Philips BDP9000, Pioneer BDP-HD1, Samsung BD-P1000, and the PS3.



Home Theater Magazine said:


> The Pioneer is the only of the group that looks its price. The PS3 looks better than it's $500/$600 price tag, and the Philips and Samsung look more liked gussied-up DVD players. The again, it [The Pioneer BDP-HD1] better look its price, seeing it's $500 more than the Philips and Samsung players, and three times the price of the cheaper version of the PS3. (Remember this article was back in April 2007 and reflects the higher prices of that time) ...
> 
> ... The vaunted PlayStation 3 does just about everything you'd want in a consumer electronics product. It plays all discs (except HD DVDs), stores media, plays games, lets you surf the Web, eats babies, looks cool, and invites both envy and ridicule equally.
> 
> It's image quality seems to be roughly the same as the Pioneer's, and navigating via the regular controller wasn't too obnoxious once I got used to it. (A real remote is also available.) It switches between tracks the fastest of the bunch, and along with the Pioneer, it's the only one that lets you advance and rewind frame by frame. (The others can only go forward per frame.) If it's already on, a disc will start nearly instantaneously. If you insert a disc with the unit off it takes about 25 seconds to start the movie. The Samsung takes almost twice that time. This thing's computing power is really impressive.


Almost a year between those reviews and it still gets raves and comments as being one of the best Bluray players out there. As for the audio... I'm not sure what the problem is with decoding inside the PS3 and passing that to the receiver via HDMI or letting the receiver do it- unless the receiver is known to do a better job decoding... As far as other audio being limited to what can be passed through the Toslink, my A2 has the same limitations, but both still sound fantastic. When I upgrade my receiver, both my A2 and the PS3 will be able to feed it and my guess is sound better than what I have now, but between the two players a negligible if even any perceivable difference between the two.

I'm still not sold on dual format players. The LG was quirky at best and I'd like to see a little more real world feed back on the latest generation of dual format players. Their prices are coming down though so if a person is looking to get into High Def disc playback it's no longer much (if any) of a price factor between getting a dual format player or a dedicated HD DVD player and dedicated BD player. (I have two HD DVD players and a PS3 and all three cost less than what the LG would have set me back.) 

The PS3 may not be 'perfect' but I don't see any 'perfect' players out there. Upgradability and raw horse power along with future features that can be added or unlocked it really is a power house of a player. Still it may not be everyone's cup of tea, but performance wise I would have no problem recommending it as a BD player to anyone. _When_ BD players come down in price to a more reasonable and competetive price tag, then the PS3 will start to lose it's appeal to many- but I don't see sub $200 priced Bluray players for some time, and by the time we get to the $100 and under mark with BD... we may be looking at the next gen of HD delivery already showing up. (In other words, I don't expect $100 BD players for a number of years yet.)

I'll be political now  ... I won't say the PS3 is THE best Bluray player out there, but it is one of the best. Feature wise and everything it can do, dollar for dollar, and like they say in boxing, pound for pound, it's the best deal out there in that sense. No other player, HD DVD or BD can do what the PS3 can do. 

Back to something mentioned and that's all from me for now... Future HD Delivery systems... The PS3 seems capable of even handling them, whether it's media cards or network download content stored to a hard drive. Only the 40GB PS3 lacks the media card reader and if that becomes an HD delivery system, that particular model will be left behind but the rest are ready and waiting for what whatever can be thrown at it. In this sense, there isn't any other High Def player, HD DVD or Bluray that even comes close.

Bottom line though, it's a personal decision everyone has to make on their own.


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



yourgrandma said:


> I am getting an 805, but the PS3 is NOT capable of sending DTS MA. I've been getting conflicting answers to the question of whether it will send any 7.1 sound. It also does not allow for outboard processing (who cares).


Randy did you call Sony and ask them directly? Don't ask what it 'might' be able to do because they won't answer that, but if the question is 'can it do (this)' right now, they can answer that and they would be the definitive answer on the topic.


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## yourgrandma

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*

Well there isn't really any doubt that it cannot decode DTS-MA right now. I thought about calling, but I doubt they have a que cars for that. If they plan on releasing a FW update, they won't say anything. 

It would be interesting to hear what kind of answer I'd get, but I wouldn't know which one of Sony's numbers to call. Maybe a lunchtime experiment this week.

The internet concensus seems to be that there will be a firmware udate to add the ability, just like with SD DVD upconversion. Lets hope the internet starts being right.

In the meantime, I have yet to be impressed by the sound I've gotten from any of my BD movies. Below average even for Dolby Digital. I havent played with DTS core on House of 1000 Corpses, but Bob Zombie love his movies to have great sound. That one is in 7.1 DTS HD.


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## wbassett

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



yourgrandma said:


> Well there isn't really any doubt that it cannot decode DTS-MA right now. I thought about calling, but I doubt they have a que cars for that. If they plan on releasing a FW update, they won't say anything.
> 
> It would be interesting to hear what kind of answer I'd get, but I wouldn't know which one of Sony's numbers to call. Maybe a lunchtime experiment this week.
> 
> The internet concensus seems to be that there will be a firmware udate to add the ability, just like with SD DVD upconversion. Lets hope the internet starts being right.
> 
> In the meantime, I have yet to be impressed by the sound I've gotten from any of my BD movies. Below average even for Dolby Digital. I havent played with DTS core on House of 1000 Corpses, but Bob Zombie love his movies to have great sound. That one is in 7.1 DTS HD.


I see this a lot in other forums I moderate/participate in- Sometimes there are questions about things and I see some of the 'answers' given and some answers really are pure speculation. (Not saying what you posted was speculation Randy, that was a generalized statement) The best way to wade through things is to call the source itself.

Randy I understand what you're saying about the first level help desk that people always get when they call, they rarely give any useful information, and yeah it's a joke when they have to look things up in their 'cook book' or cue cards. The thing is don't just call and stop there. Ask for a reply via email and any links the company has confirming what the equipment can or cannot do. I always ask to talk to a second level support person and make sure they understand what I am asking, and like I said I ask for any links to references. They will not answer any questions about future firmware updates or upcoming features added with any future firmware update so no need to even waste a breath on that.

Ironically the WORSE place to get any legitimate information is Sony's own forums, especially when it comes to the PS3.

As far as going to the source though, whether it's Sony or any company that you or anyone has a question, the best way to get an answer is to call.

I'm sure you've already seen this but for the benefit of others that may have the same questions:



Sony said:


> The PLAYSTATION 3 system will support audio technology such as Dolby Digital 5.1 ch, DTS 5.1 ch, LPCM 7.1 ch, AAC, and others. (1*, 2*) To playback sound recorded on your DVD/software in Dolby Digital (AC-3) or DTS format to reproduce the effect of listening in a movie theater or concert hall, you must connect to audio equipment with the ability to decode DTS or Dolby Digital sound (sold separately). You must connect the component via the DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) connector using an optical digital cable (sold separately).
> 
> To utilize the "DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL)" feature of the PLAYSTATION 3 system, you should plug in the "Video" connectors only (yellow if using Composite AV Cables; red, green and blue if using Component AV Cables). You should also disconnect the Left and Right Audio (white and red) connectors that may be installed into your television/stereo. Every setup can vary depending upon the make and model of your equipment, so there may be exceptions to this. One such example would be when you may be using an RFU adapter to relay the video and sound information to the television.
> 
> Configuring Audio Output Settings
> 
> The PLAYSTATION 3 system allows you to configure the audio output settings independent of the display output settings. You may need to make sure the correct audio out setting is selected for your installation.
> 
> 
> To choose the audio output setting go to the Settings icon.
> Navigate down to Sounds Settings and press X.
> Navigate to Audio Output Settings and press X.
> You will be then prompted to choose from "AV Multi Out port", "Digital Out (Optical)", or "HDMI." Highlight the output port of you setup and press the right direction button. If you choose "HDMI" go to step 5. If you choose "Digital Out (Optical)" go to step 6.
> If you choose "HDMI", you will be given the option to choose "Automatic" or "Manual”.
> • Automatic: The PLAYSTATION 3 will automatically choose the method for setting the audio output format. Highlight "Automatic" and press the right direction button.
> • Manual: You are able to manually choose the audio output formats supported by your display or AV amplifier (receiver). Highlight the audio output option and press the "X" button on the option you wish to use and make sure the check box is checked. Once you are done, press the right direction button. If you are uncertain what to choose, please consult the manufacturer of your home theater equipment for additional assistance.​
> If you choose "Digital Out (Optical)," you will be give the option to select the output format supported by the display or AV amplifier (receiver). Highlight the options and press the "X" button and make sure the check box is checked. Once you are done, press the right direction button. If you are uncertain which options to choose please consult the manufacturer of your home theater equipment for additional assistance.
> Once you are done, a summary of the audio outputs will be displayed. Press the "X" button to save this setting.
> The audio output of the PLAYSTATION 3 system will now output audio from the port you have selected using the settings chosen.
> 
> Additionally, the audio output format for certain Blu-ray DiscsTM or DVD media may be specified depending on your display or AV amplifier(receiver). Go to "Settings" > "BD/DVD Settings". If the audio output is coming from the HDMI port, select "BD/DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI)". If audio output is coming from the Digital Optical Out port, select "BD/DVD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital)". You will be able to choose between "Bitstream" or "Linear PCM". Contact the manufacturer of your display or AV amplifier (receiver) to determine what your display or AV amplified (receiver) supports.
> 
> Footnotes
> 
> 1* A device compatible with Linear PCM 7.1 Ch. is required to output 7.1 Ch. audio, supported by Dolby TrueHD or a similar format, from the HDMI OUT connector.
> 
> 2* This system does not support output from the DTS-HD 7.1 Ch. DTS-HD 7.1 Ch. audio is output from a 5.1 or lower channel.


If this or any piece of gear doesn't meet a person's needs/requirements then find one that does that's all.  
I honestly don't see the PS3 as a crippled device, but others may and if so that's perfectly understandable- if something doesn't meet their needs/wants/requirements it's not what they want... period. My HDTV doesn't support HDMI 1.3a, but I am not going to throw it it either when 1.3a is actually standard... the set will still display content and look great. Can it look better? Sure anything can but anything a person buys today will be outdated in six months or so. Unless you have unlimited disposable income, we all have to accept everything has some trade offs.

Seeing that some BD players from even as short as six months back may not even be able to make it to profile 2.0 and the PS3 definitely will, some of this is a moot point. It meets profile specs and will continue to meet them. The bottom line is if it's not in the profile specification it's not required for companies (Sony or any company) to include any additional decoding. If they do, excellent! If they chose not to, that doesn't mean the player is crippled. Crippled would be the original LG dual format player. (To some people, not having SACD is 'crippled' to them, but that's not a requirement to be able to do SACD. So it's not 'crippled', the device in question just doesn't do what that person wants)

I will bend what I just said a little... as far as I know it is not a requirement to upconvert SDVD, but seeing that all players do upconvert it was down right idiotic of Sony to not have that enabled on the PS3 when it first shipped. My personal opinion on that was they didn't want people buying the PS3 over their Flagship BD player even though ironically it may have been the PS3 sales numbers (as a game console) that ultimately saved Sony and Bluray- You'd think they'd treat the PS3 as their flagship player wouldn't you?

Last, from Blu-ray Disc.com's FAQs


> Will PlayStation 3 play Blu-ray Disc movies?
> 
> Yes! PlayStation 3 is a fully functional Blu-ray Disc player, so you can watch, listen and enjoy your favorite high-def movies and music in full 1080p resolution and in as many as 7.1 channels of surround sound. Of course, that's in addition to having the industry's ultimate console for high-def gaming.


Granted there is definitely some bias on that site, but that is also to be expected... I just copied the FAQ as is and didn't edit or editorialize it...

The PS3 does work extremely well as a Bluray player, but to some the stigma of it being a game console lower's its appeal. The Panasonic BP-50 looks like a good player as well as some others out there. If a person has no desire for a media system, then a dedicated stand alone player makes sense, but when they are the same price and one does a bit more, it's a tough decision for some. Please don't take my posts as trying to force the PS3 on you or anyone. I do however think it is worth at least looking into, and if it doesn't meet a person's needs, at least they made an educated decision.


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## yourgrandma

Bill, that was a great post. The quote you posted pretty much sums it up, the only 7.1 audio it outputs is LPCM. It would just be nice to be able to use the extra two channels discreetly rather than having to apply post processing to get use from the rear (they cost a good deal of money, ya know). I think (hope anyway) that this is similar to when they didn't enable upconversion until after their other players had it. 

What confuses me though is how they feel so secure people will buy a Sony player if they don't get a PS3.

You are also correct in stating that most of the back and forth is pure conjecture and based on little to no factual information. That's why I noted the wide range of statements. Anywhere from "no way, it's hardware related to HDMI", to "Without a doubt, it's just a matter of time".

If this one issue is resolved, I will whole heartedly endorse the PS3 as a BD player. If not, I would only recommend it to those not as scrupulous as I in the audio realm.


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## wbassett

Randy some of this post will be speculation on my part  ... at least the first part...

As good as the PS3 is, I doubt it will ever be as good as Sony's dedicated flagship player, at least not at the same time. The PS3 may have swayed Warner and was a big factor in saving Sony and BD, but Sony treats it like an unwanted step child at times... giving it the table scraps after the adults eat. 

There does seem to be a hardware limitation which is why the PS3 decodes on board. Maybe it can be resolved with a Firmware update, maybe not. I can say it does an incredible job with DTS 5.1 and honestly, My setup and room really wouldn't benefit from 7.1 so this is a nice fit for me. (Plus movies are only done in 5.1 anyway so it doesn't bother me in the least not having 7.1)

Like I said, that's all personal preferences though. I bought my SXRD and PS3 last year and the only Bluray players available locally were the PS3, the LG, Samsung, and the Sony big boy... all of which were more expensive. (Also the Samsung broke in the store when we were demoing it- so that immediately raised an eyebrow)

I may not be following you though, are you saying even with the PS3 decoding onboard a receiver like the Onyko can't process that as 7.1? Or just concerned about being able to do Dolby TrueHD and the DTS –HD Master bitstream audio?

Sony could have and should have 

Included a remote
Included an IR pickup to make it easier to integrate with existing universal remotes. (But there are 3rd party IR adapters and Sony is working on a fix as well I hear)
 Thrown in an HDMI cable! If MonoPrice and RiteAV can sell a 6 footer for around $5 they could have thrown one in!
Most important... unlocked *all* features and functions and treated it as their flagship pride and joy and lowered the price of the stand alone player- in fact I already said before the PS3 should have looked like a piece of HT gear and the gaming ability should have been a bonus instead of the primary function.

So the question is will the PS3 be able to do Dolby TrueHD and the DTS –HD Master bitstream audio data?



Onyko said:


> Onyko A/V receiver’s from TXSR 605 and up can decode Dolby TrueHD and the DTS –HD Master bitstream audio data. Currently there is no Blu-Ray or a HD DVD players on the market with the ability of providing this bit for bit audio streams. Players currently on the market are decoding True HD and DTS HD data and sending it through the HDMI connection as PCM. Because of this the receiver will display PCM Multi Channel. Only when players have the ability to send bitstream signals to the receivers will the receivers be able to decode the signal. Only then will True HD, Dolby Plus or DTS HD be displayed on the front panel.


Based on that from Onyko, what players out there can do it now and of the ones that can't, will they be able to in the future with a Firmware update? Not trying to be adversarial, I am curious about this now too.


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## yourgrandma

Nah, I don't know either. I guess I thought it was more common than that. 

I suppose I would probably be happy with a post processing or matrixing solution, like DTS-ES matrix or DD EX. My Denon treats all DD and DTS sources to the matrixing process, so I would hope there would be a similar option on the Onkyo. Even just 6.1 matrixing would be reasonable, but obviously I'd like to take full advantage of whatever the disc has to offer.

I admit, I made a big fuss out of this at first, but I've calmed down quite a bit.


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## wbassett

If I am reading what Onyko said correctly, and this is current on their FAQ section, it sounds like this isn't just a PS3 issue. Like I asked, I wonder how many dedicated players will be upgradeable. This sounds like a potential bigger question than just the PS3. My brother bought his Panny a few months back and now I am wondering if it will be able to do it.


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## yourgrandma

That's a good question. There might be a lot of upset customers...


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## bobgpsr

*Re: What is the best Blu-ray player available now?*



Sonnie said:


> Is anything sending DTS-MA and is there anything capable of decoding it at this point?


Sure Fox BD titles, Studio Canal HD DVD titles, and the latest is Pan's Labyrinth that uses 7.1 channel lossless dts-HD MA albeit in Spanish (HD DVD for sure also BD I think).


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## yourgrandma

What about players that decode it?

Don't most BD players still bitstream, though? That way the receiver can do it.


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## wbassett

Bob you probably can answer this then... is Onyko's comment in their FAQ accurate or is it old information?

The way it reads it sounds like the players do the decoding for now. This all sounds like a bit of a non-issue though if the receiver is getting the information over the receiver having to decode it there. Is there really a difference? If so is it a noticeable one?

This seems to be a bit of a confusion factor and concern for people and the way I read that it sounds like it's not just the PS3. I do have a call in to Onyko for some clarification on what they stated. Hopefully I'll hear something in a day or two I'll hear what they have to say.


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## HomeTeam

Its being reported in a lot of places that the 80 GB one is going to be replaced by one with a larger hard-drive, about 120-160 GB for the same price. 

I wonder if the rumor of this is indeed true, will it have the audio fixes that's been mentioned a lot in this thread.


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## wbassett

If it's the same price then that's not too bad but hard drive space is really a non-issue since you can add as much space to any PS3 as you want via external drives. Also I'm not sure if people are aware of this but it is actually pretty easy to change the internal hard drive in a PS3 and you don't even have to open the case cover. I'll double check but I'm pretty sure it doesn't void the warranty although I would keep the original drive as is and intact just incase you ever did have to send the unit in for repair.

As far as the audio, I hope we get a definitive answer on that but it doesn't really sound like it's a major issue.


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## bobgpsr

So far only the newer HDMI 1.3 AVR's have implemented dts-HD MA audio codec decoders. They need a HDMI 1.3 HDM player that will output raw bitstream over HDMI in order to decode the new audio codecs in the AVR.

As to which is best (decoding in the player or in the AVR) -- really not a significant issue except that players do not have 7.1 decode or dts-HD MA yet. IIRC Samsung has promised better (more complete codec choice) decoding with a firmware update for their HDM players.


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## wbassett

Onyko responded back already and this is what they said:


Onyko said:


> Thank You for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support.
> 
> The PS3 does have the ability to decode True HD itself and send it through a LPCM signal to the reciever in which case the display will read Multichannel (Not True HD) because the PS3 is doing the decoding. Decoding from a reciever will always be better then from the player. But the difference isn't really too much. You are still getting uncompressed audio which sounds way better than traditional sound formats.
> 
> 
> Again, thank you for contacting Onkyo USA Product Support, if you need further assistance feel free to call us at 800-229-1687 or visit our websites integrahometheater.com, onkyousa.com or shoponkyo.com for product information, purchasing new and refurbished products, catalogues, hookup diagrams, authorized service & sales center locations, and warranty information.
> 
> ONKYO Introduces its First HD DVD Player, Including High-Bit-Rate and Lossless Audio Streaming via HDMI 1.3A


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## Sonnie

I am no longer considering the PS3 for a Blu-ray player. The decision is made and the PS3 is in my HT room as I type. I'll probably be looking for a quality combo player on down the line if someone will make a good one with less problems than those available now.

I got the PS3 connected and started fiddlin' with the settings. It acts totally weird while in the settings mode. The screen constantly flashes. I thought maybe at first it was the HDMI cable or receiver input, but I swapped those around and the problem still exist. Finally, after about an hour, I got past the settings screen to the main menu. The main menu functions fine... no screen flashing. 

I popped in my first BD, David Gilmour - Remember That Night concert. No flashing on it either. At first I was disappointed because I thought the entire concert was going to be filmed "in the grain". It looked worse than SD. Why any producer thinks a grainy film has any attraction to it is totally beyond me. :rolleyesno: Anyway... after the first couple of songs it cleared up and you could actually tell it was filmed in high definition. I didn't get much further than that, but a few of the distance shots looked a tad grainy as well. I suppose someone decided they wanted to ruin a good show. The sound was excellent... no complaints there. I am anxious to try out a few movies later on, but the wife it hollering at me for us to go shopping for furniture that I have been promising her. :spend: If it were home theater equipment it would be fine, but furniture? :huh: .... Don't tell her I said that. :shh:

This flashing issue is bothersome. I'm not sure if I have a bum unit or not. I tried to get into the Internet settings to enter in my wireless info, but I can't get it to quit flashing long enough to even change the settings. :gah:

Anyway... wife coming again... gotta run for now. :wave:


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## yourgrandma

I don't know, Sonnie, I've never heard of that issue before. Perhaps contacting sony may be a good idea. At least having purchased yours new, your warranty should come into play. My experiance with this type of thing is that it starts as a small nusance and eventually gets worse and worse until it becomes unuseable.

Hopefully thisinsn't the case with your PS3, though.

Get any games yet?


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## John Simpson

I had some of that flashing using a component switch box -- each time the screen went white, the component box would do something that would freak out the plasma screen, and it would flash off for a few seconds. All resolved now that the Denon 4308 is doing the switching.

Might also be an issue with your screen, not being able to process the input signal fast enough -- does it happen when you go from 720 to 1080P, for example?

As for games, I reckon that's the weakest thing about the PS3. Most of them bore me silly. Hopefully the Star Wars one later this year will sway me :daydream:


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## Sonnie

I'm not sure about going from 720p to 1080p. The default setting is 1080p. I'm not sure how I would get it to 720p or even why it would need 720p. I'm also not sure what the screen would have to do with it either. If you mean my projector... the main menu and the one BD I played worked fine, so the projector doesn't have any issues. I'm not sure how the PS3 would be too fast for any projector anyway. :huh:

This is only a problem with I'm in the settings menu... nowhere else.


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## wbassett

Sonnie this is a strange one.

My son just bought the 40GB PS3 (he also has an XBox 360) and I was asking him if he had any problems. None to mention. I specifically asked him about the setup menu and he checked it and it's fine.

Now we are also going directly from the PS3 to the TV. I'd say try that and see if it still does it. If so, you may have a defective unit. If it doesn't, then it doesn't like going through your receiver.

I know that's not an answer as far as a 'fix'... if it doesn't play nice with your receiver and another BD player does, then there's a problem. I have read early on were some people had some problems with HDMI switchers, but it was a lack of signal, not a flashing one.

What's odd is you say this only happens during the setup menu? I would test it directly to the TV to make sure there isn't a problem with the PS3. Either way, it sounds like you may be taking it back.  If the problem follows connected just to the TV, there's something wrong with your PS3. If it goes away, then the PS3 doesn't like your reciever, or the receiver doesn't like the PS3... either way it doesn't matter, it's a problem. If it's the PS3, at least you can replace it then.

Is this what you are having a problem with?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj_gEwHOQEI

Here's the blog they mention
http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4212161.html


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## Sonnie

Yeah... that is pretty much what it is doing, but only during the settings menu. The main menu is fine and the one movie I played is fine, which would lead me to believe it has nothing to do with HDCP. I also swapped HDMI cables and swapped inputs... no change.


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## wbassett

Sonnie I am at a loss why it's just the setup menu that is doing it. Like I said I am not having this problem and I checked with my son and he isn't either. 

Can you try going straight to the TV just to test if it's the unit itself?


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## Sonnie

Yes... I can go straight to the projector. I will try this, but it may be tomorrow evening before I can get to it.


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## bgilly

I want blu ray..

PS3 299

Panny 30 499

or wait til the summer when new models come out?

HDMI video connection directly to the Mitsubishi HC4900 projector


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## Sonnie

I would recommend starting a new thread so maybe you get more response since this thread pertains to PS3 for Blu-ray. :T


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## HomeTeam

wbassett said:


> If it's the same price then that's not too bad but hard drive space is really a non-issue since you can add as much space to any PS3 as you want via external drives. Also I'm not sure if people are aware of this but it is actually pretty easy to change the internal hard drive in a PS3 and you don't even have to open the case cover. I'll double check but I'm pretty sure it doesn't void the warranty although I would keep the original drive as is and intact just incase you ever did have to send the unit in for repair.
> 
> As far as the audio, I hope we get a definitive answer on that but it doesn't really sound like it's a major issue.


This may be a stupid question so forgive me if it is. But theoretically, say you run out of space on the ps3 internal HD, can you use an external drive to continue your saves?


----------

