# Questions About the Onkyo 605...



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

This is for confirmation of correct setup for an install I will be assisting with; the individual has nearly identical gear as yours truly and I want to double check my stats here...

The first query has to do with physical connection...an Oppo BDP-83 is running HDMI OUT only, for audio/video transfer for DVDs and Blu-rays, to the 605's HDMI IN (input 1). From there, a second HDMI cable is going from the 605's HDMI OUT to a Sony SXRD rear pro's HDMI IN (Video 6). That's it -- no other interconnections are being made (save for the speaker cables, of course). This is to send bitstreamed audio of all codecs from the Oppo to the 605 for processing, and to send native 1080p video from BDs and upscaled 1080p video from DVDs through the receiver and off to the Sony...

So, the setup is like this:

*OPPO BDP-83 HDMI OUT > ONKYO 605 HDMI IN
ONKYO 605 HDMI OUT > SONY SXRD HDMI IN*

Given this scenario, is this correctly connected for passing video straight through the 605 and for audio to be processed at it?

Second: Due to its rather "low" processing power and chip implementation, does the 605 (or subsequent 606/607 and now 608) really, truly decode the high resolution codecs (TrueHD/Master Audio) as they're "supposed" to be processed? I keep hearing about how certain systems like Audyssey kind of "rob" processing power from rather inexpensive AVRs like the 605, so I'm wondering how true this is...when a TrueHD or Master Audio is being bitstreamed to one of these 600-series receivers, are we really hearing and experiencing these lossless soundtracks as they're meant to be? 

Then, there's the issue of the limited processing power inside these receivers in terms of decoding higher-resolution TrueHD tracks (mainly)...I know with my 605, certain bitstreamed TrueHD tracks coming over from the Oppo '83 simply wouldn't play -- there was no audio transfer at all. This happened on the _HD Essentials_ Blu-ray calibration disc, as when it began playing its TrueHD track, there was no audio from my speakers and the 605 was doing the HDMI handshake that never locked in. I was told that this was because of a "bug" which plagued the early 605's, which subsequently wouldn't allow some higher-bit TrueHD tracks to be played or decoded -- as far as I can tell, this is the only disc in my collection that won't play on the 605. But I am beginning to wonder if the 605 truly doesn't have enough processing power to play back some of these Blu-ray soundtracks correctly and with their full force -- hence, the reason why I don't really sense that much of a sonic difference between the lossy Dolby and DTS soundtracks on DVDs and TrueHD/MA versions found on BD's. 

Can this be?

Adding to this, before I get to the third round of inquiry here, is the fact that when I compare the core DTS stream from a Master Audio-encoded disc to the fully lossless version, I don't hear any difference either, and I'm wondering if this is considered "normal." 

Let me put it another way: My first BD player was a first generation Panasonic which didn't bitstream TrueHD nor did it support Master Audio AT ALL. It took the core stream from the MA track and either decoded that internally or sent it out via bitstream. That's how I was listening to my Master Audio encoded Blu-rays for the longest time. Now, with the Oppo BDP-83 which can bitstream TrueHD and MA, I have been experiencing these tracks bitstreamed to my 605 -- the thing is, comparing the full lossless audio tracks of the same films on BD to the core DTS stream I used to listen to, I cannot hear any difference between them. Is this considered normal, as the lossless extension wouldn't create a massively audible difference anyway? 

Finally, with an AVR that doesn't have pre-outs, like the 605, is there any way to convert a speaker level signal to feed an external amp? I know this is possible in car audio, whereby a head unit without RCA preouts can be connected to a line level converter to feed an amp -- but are there converters to do this with a surround receiver? I have been told there are devices that can go in line between the receiver's speaker jacks and a power amp, but they usually introduce a lot of noise into the signal, and that it would get expensive because you need to do this on each channel. Are these kinds of devices recommended, and would it just make more sense to purchase a new AVR that has preouts to do this "the right way"?

Sorry for all the questions -- thank you in advance to anyone on this great site that can assist! :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
First off, If concerned about True HD performance when the 605 Decodes the BD, you can configure the OPPO to handle True HD and DTS-HD codecs and send them via PCM to your Onkyo.

You are kind of in an interesting situation where your Front Speakers and BDP are most honestly used with more expensive AVR's on the whole. Matters not. What does is that you are happy with the performance of your HT. The only things I fault the 605 about is the lack of Audyssey's MultEQ or MultEQ XT (using less powerful 2EQ) and its lack of preamp outputs.

And I do not know of any products that will let you seamlessly add an outboard Amplifier where there are not preamp outputs.
Cheers,
JJ


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Might be worth considering upgrading the 605 to a newer version with better spec and the Audyssey Multi EQ XT is certainly worth the extra as it is more complex and offers better results as JJ has already pointed out...


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> First off, If concerned about True HD performance when the 605 Decodes the BD, you can configure the OPPO to handle True HD and DTS-HD codecs and send them via PCM to your Onkyo.


Jack,

Thanks for the response. I would rather configure a system so that TrueHD, etc. tracks are BITSTREAMED to an AVR, as I came out of a situation whereby my player was decoding the tracks and sending them via HDMI as multichannel PCM. I upgraded to the Oppo because of its ability to send bitstreamed TrueHD and Master Audio signals (along with its DVD upconversion improvements). 

Aside from this personal factor, I am attempting to ascertain if the 605 is ultimately capable of delivering, processing and decoding these high resolution soundtracks based on their limited processing power that I've read about -- THAT was the ultimate motive for the thread. 



> You are kind of in an interesting situation where your Front Speakers and BDP are most honestly used with more expensive AVR's on the whole. Matters not. What does is that you are happy with the performance of your HT. The only things I fault the 605 about is the lack of Audyssey's MultEQ or MultEQ XT (using less powerful 2EQ) and its lack of preamp outputs.


I agree to a very large extent with regard to your comments on the Polk RTi12 main channels and the use of the 605 (it's simply what I must use at this time) but I disagree a bit on the Oppo remark and observation; I don't think this Blu-ray player necessarily has to fit in to a high-end HT setup and as a matter of fact, I know a lot of users that have much less expensive displays and amp setups than me which are running a BDP-83.

Regardless, I am just trying to ascertain if my physical setup between components is correct as I can then assist the friend with his setup...



> And I do not know of any products that will let you seamlessly add an outboard Amplifier where there are not preamp outputs.
> Cheers,
> JJ


AudioControl and Behrringer and some others make a "converter" device that would run between the speaker outputs of the AVR and a power amp, thus changing the signal to a preamp level one, but I am uncertain if these STILL exist or if they're recommended; that's why I wanted to ask if anyone on here knew of any other solutions or of the aforementioned kind.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

recruit said:


> Might be worth considering upgrading the 605 to a newer version with better spec and the Audyssey Multi EQ XT is certainly worth the extra as it is more complex and offers better results as JJ has already pointed out...


Recruit,

Thanks as always; it's not the Audyssey implementation that I don't care for on the 605, as I override these settings anyway and use my own -- it's lack of preamp outputs on the unit if I want to add an outboard power amp down the line. I am also concerned with the 605's processing power on TrueHD and Master Audio decoding as I've heard this unit's processing is "limited" to say the least -- I want to ascertain if I'm actually hearing TrueHD and Master Audio soundtracks when the front panel indicator of the 605 is saying so...


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Well the simple answer to that is yes, but then there are other factors which make diffierences to the sound , room being the biggest factor, then there is the rest of your set up, speakers/sub which will ultimately also determine the quality of sound that you hear, the higher up the chain you go with kit the better it gets but it may not be massively but small increments...I know when you get to a certain level the differences can be subtle but better all the same, which matters


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

recruit said:


> Well the simple answer to that is yes, but then there are other factors which make diffierences to the sound , room being the biggest factor, then there is the rest of your set up, speakers/sub which will ultimately also determine the quality of sound that you hear, the higher up the chain you go with kit the better it gets but it may not be massively but small increments...I know when you get to a certain level the differences can be subtle but better all the same, which matters


I understand. 

Being that I am running a 605 and due to its "reputation" for doing things on the...well...weak side, I wanted to know if the processing chip inside this thing is actually TRULY decoding these high resolution soundtracks; perhaps what I meant to ask for is 605 "experts" or owners that have had hands on experience with these matters...


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

I'm sure there are plenty of happy 605 owners out there...


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I would sell your 605 either to a friend or on Audiogon, Craigslist or Ebay. And in truth, most people I know do not have more expensive BDP's than their AV Receivers. However, if you are happy with your TX-SR605, then you should enjoy it. 

I would check out Accessories4less as they have some amazing prices on B-Stock Onkyo AVR's. Models like the TX-SR707 are available for 449 (899 MSRP) Or the TX-SR806 for 549 (1100 MSRP). Both have THX Certification, Audyssey MultEQ, Preamp Outputs, stronger amplifier sections and more.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

recruit said:


> I'm sure there are plenty of happy 605 owners out there...


That doesn't really answer the question though...:scratch:


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I would sell your 605 either to a friend or on Audiogon, Craigslist or Ebay.


Why? I just would like to know if the system is physically connected correctly and if the codecs are being processed right...



> And in truth, most people I know do not have more expensive BDP's than their AV Receivers.


This confuses me a bit; my 605 cost almost $500. The Oppo cost $500. How is the Blu-ray player much more expensive -- or more expensive -- than the AVR? 



> I would check out Accessories4less as they have some amazing prices on B-Stock Onkyo AVR's. Models like the TX-SR707 are available for 449 (899 MSRP) Or the TX-SR806 for 549 (1100 MSRP). Both have THX Certification, Audyssey MultEQ, Preamp Outputs, stronger amplifier sections and more.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I'll check this out. Thanks. What is "B Stock"?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I really think you should upgrade your AVR. You seem to be bitten by the bug and while the 605 is a fine AVR, it is an entry level AVR and the rest of your gear is not. 

Please do not take offense to that assessment. It is just you have some really nice Components and I think that Audyssey MultEQ, THX Processing and a stronger Amplifier section with the ability of adding outboard Amplifiers via preamp outputs would take you to the next level.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I really think you should upgrade your AVR. You seem to be bitten by the bug and while the 605 is a fine AVR, it is an entry level AVR and the rest of your gear is not.
> 
> Please do not take offense to that assessment. It is just you have some really nice Components and I think that Audyssey MultEQ, THX Processing and a stronger Amplifier section with the ability of adding outboard Amplifiers via preamp outputs would take you to the next level.
> ...


Jack,

It's not that I'm taking "offense" to your assesments; I just don't understand why the Oppo is considered way beyond reproach when it costs $499 retail and so did my 605 -- I don't think these components are a mismatch in any way, honestly. The SPEAKERS (RTi12's) with the AVR maybe, but the Blu-ray player and the system? How so? When my display was new, the Grand Wegas cost nearly $3K for a 50" size -- I got mine for like $1300 on sale at Sears. How is this really mismatched with the Oppo?

As for the 605, I understand totally what the upside would be to getting into a higher end Onkyo -- I'm all for that. But before I do that, I want to know if the 605's processor is capable of actually TRULY decoding and processing TrueHD and Master Audio codecs...


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Osage_Winter said:


> As for the 605, I understand totally what the upside would be to getting into a higher end Onkyo -- I'm all for that. But before I do that, I want to know if the 605's processor is capable of actually TRULY decoding and processing TrueHD and Master Audio codecs...


As stated previously the answer to that question is yes.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

recruit said:


> As stated previously the answer to that question is yes.


But based on what, recruit? You stated previously that "you're sure there are happy 605 owners out there..." but that's a bit vague, isn't it?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Osage_Winter said:


> Jack,
> 
> It's not that I'm taking "offense" to your assesments; I just don't understand why the Oppo is considered way beyond reproach when it costs $499 retail and so did my 605 -- I don't think these components are a mismatch in any way, honestly. The SPEAKERS (RTi12's) with the AVR maybe, but the Blu-ray player and the system? How so? When my display was new, the Grand Wegas cost nearly $3K for a 50" size -- I got mine for like $1300 on sale at Sears. How is this really mismatched with the Oppo?
> 
> As for the 605, I understand totally what the upside would be to getting into a higher end Onkyo -- I'm all for that. But before I do that, I want to know if the 605's processor is capable of actually TRULY decoding and processing TrueHD and Master Audio codecs...


I was thinking of the Speakers predominately as they would most benefit from stronger amplification, Audyssey MultEQ, and THX Processing. I did not specifically allude to the OPPO when making my last post and again said as long as you are happy with the 605, rock on.

From the Sound & Vision Review of the TX-SR605:"*With more than four channels stressed to clipping simultaneously for durations greater than a few hundred milliseconds, the TX-SR605 protected itself to about one-third power, presumably via current-limiting circuitry. Reducing drive level for a few minutes, or power-cycling the unit, restored normal operation." It is the fact that you have fairly large Front Speakers and a decent sized Center Channel that made me think you truly might benefit from a more powerful AVR. Again, the 605 only weighs 25 pounds whereas Onkyo's THX Ultra2 gear weighs literally twice that. Almost this entire weight difference is in the Amplifier Section.

I too use a Sony SXRD HDTV (KDS-55A3000) and chose it strictly on its performance. I was waiting for the stillborn KDS-Z70XBR5, but it sadly never saw the light of day. To this day, the only other Display which I would possibly switch my A3000 for would be a Pioneer Kuro.

So to state it again, so long as you are happy with the 605, I certainly will never bring it up again.
I am a huge fan of Audyssey MultEQ. Especially the XT version. And while you manually adjust your EQ, what MultEQ XT can do can often be profound. Moreover, having the flexibility of adding outboard Amplification is quite important to many. Regardless, you seem quite pleased with your 605 so I will leave it at that.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> I was thinking of the Speakers predominately as they would most benefit from stronger amplification, Audyssey MultEQ, and THX Processing. I did not specifically allude to the OPPO when making my last post and again said as long as you are happy with the 605, rock on.
> 
> From the Sound & Vision Review of the TX-SR605:"*With more than four channels stressed to clipping simultaneously for durations greater than a few hundred milliseconds, the TX-SR605 protected itself to about one-third power, presumably via current-limiting circuitry. Reducing drive level for a few minutes, or power-cycling the unit, restored normal operation." It is the fact that you have fairly large Front Speakers and a decent sized Center Channel that made me think you truly might benefit from a more powerful AVR. Again, the 605 only weighs 25 pounds whereas Onkyo's THX Ultra2 gear weighs literally twice that. Almost this entire weight difference is in the Amplifier Section.
> 
> ...


Jack,

You said THIS in Post #9:



> And in truth, most people I know *do not have more expensive BDP's* than their AV Receivers.


...that's where I continue to be baffled by the references to such...

I understand the issues regarding the 605's amplification section -- I have already stated that I would have no problem upgrading to a bigger and better Onkyo when the times comes, specifically to have preouts for future upgrades.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

That was a rejoinder from Post 2 where I stated that most with Speakers and BDP's that expensive do not use an entry level AVR. However, in almost every post, I have said so long as you are happy that is all that matters.

Regardless, I only spoke of the Speakers and BDP costing more in Post 2 and have only responded to your Posts thereafter. Every post since, I have simply was stating what you stood to gain by using a more powerful AVR.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> That was a rejoinder from Post 2 where I stated that most with Speakers and BDP's that expensive do not use an entry level AVR. However, in almost every post, I have said so long as you are happy that is all that matters.


But that's what I'm _saying_, Jack...I think you and I have conflicting definitions of what "entry level" consists of; to me, $500 isn't entry -- plus the fact that I continue pointing out that the Blu-ray player I own is the SAME price as your referenced "entry level" AVR, the 605...you say above "most speakers and BDPs THAT expensive..." but the Blu-ray player (Oppo's BDP-83) costs $499 retail...I don't understand why this is different from the 605 costing $500...



> Regardless, I only spoke of the Speakers and BDP costing more in Post 2 and have only responded to your Posts thereafter. Every post since, I have simply was stating what you stood to gain by using a more powerful AVR.


I understand that -- that's why I continue to _agree_ with you regarding the AVR being the next upgrade for me or a better sub. :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
You are probably right that my definition of entry level might be skewed. That being said, I really think if or when you audition MultEQ or MultEQ XT in your HT, you really might be impressed. Especially with In Wall Surrounds, I have been amazed at the difference with MultEQ engaged.

THX Processing coupled with MultEQ can really help to get the most out of your gear. However, Audyssey is something that I am a huge believer in. Regardless, you have a very nice HT and the OPPO is a brilliant BDP. 

If I had your gear, I would actually look for a used TX-SR805. Of the 800 Series, this was by far the best. Made in Japan (all Models since made in Malaysia), weighs 51 pounds, MultEQ XT (later models only have MultEQ), THX Ultra 2 (807 THX Select2 Plus), Burr Brown DAC's (806/807 use Crystal Semiconductor DAC's), same Amplifier Section as in the 1700 Dollar TX-SR875, and more. And best of all, available used for well under 500 Dollars.
For example:http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1277164992&/Onkyo-TX-SR805-thx-ultra-ii---
Cheers,
JJ


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Have to agree with JJ, if you are questioning the 605's ability then why not upgrade, more power more features and overall better SQ.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> You are probably right that my definition of entry level might be skewed.


I'm just saying that you were referring to the Oppo as if it were something that didn't belong with an AVR such as my 605...they're roughly the same price -- not exactly the same price, but roughly. 



> That being said, I really think if or when you audition MultEQ or MultEQ XT in your HT, you really might be impressed. Especially with In Wall Surrounds, I have been amazed at the difference with MultEQ engaged.


Okay...hopefully this will give me a better experience than 2EQ has...



> THX Processing coupled with MultEQ can really help to get the most out of your gear. However, Audyssey is something that I am a huge believer in. Regardless, you have a very nice HT and the OPPO is a brilliant BDP.


Okay. Thank you... 



> If I had your gear, I would actually look for a used TX-SR805. Of the 800 Series, this was by far the best. Made in Japan (all Models since made in Malaysia), weighs 51 pounds, MultEQ XT (later models only have MultEQ), THX Ultra 2 (807 THX Select2 Plus), Burr Brown DAC's (806/807 use Crystal Semiconductor DAC's), same Amplifier Section as in the 1700 Dollar TX-SR875, and more. And best of all, available used for well under 500 Dollars.
> For example:http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?miscrcvr&1277164992&/Onkyo-TX-SR805-thx-ultra-ii---
> Cheers,
> JJ


That's actually what I was going to ask you next -- which Onkyo you would recommend for an upgrade...

What if I didn't want to go the used route? Which model would you recommend from their current new lineup?


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

recruit said:


> Have to agree with JJ, if you are questioning the 605's ability then why not upgrade, more power more features and overall better SQ.


It's not that I don't want to upgrade, I simply cannot right now (budget wise) -- what I would like to know is if the 605 actually processes TrueHD and Master Audio correctly...


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

This has already been answered many times over so no point in leaving this thread open.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I agree that we are going around in circles on this Thread. Osage, when you are ready to get a new AVR, we look forward to discussing it.
In addition, the 605 does process True HD and DTS-HD correctly. Often when there are issues with audio output, it is an issue with the BDP or the Disc itself and not the AVR.
Cheers,
JJ


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