# Am I hearing things???



## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

I got my first HDDVD player. It is used Toshiba HD-A1. I upgraded the fw to the latest stuff and proceeded to hook it up to my Sony 5200ES via HDMI. All went smoothly till I played a disk, video looked great, but no audio. After messing with configurations for an hour or so I gave up and since I did not have an optical cable I went with the 5.1 analog audio outputs. 

You know what? That sounds pretty good to me. Much different than my standard dvd player via a digital coax cable via pcm. The channel seperation and surround sound and I think even dynamic range is much more like I expected it to be from a movie. 

For those that know much more than I about all the different audio formats, can you explain to me why it sounds so much better than my regular dvd player. I thought that pcm would be better than the analog outputs. So confused but happy about the differences I hear.

I am getting another HDMI cable to try out and see if I can get audio via HDMI and I am also getting an optical cable if that does not work. If I get the digital audio working will it sound even better than the analog outputs? I hope so. 

Oh and I know this is the first gen HDDVD and I think only does 1080i which is ok cause my tv only supports 1080i. Picture is awesome though. Much better than standard resolution.


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

There are too many variables you've left out to guess what the differenc is you're hearing.

Using the analog outputs of the A1 just means you're using its DACs to do the PCM->analog conversion instead of your receiver. One may or may not be superior to the other. 

Comparing a loss*less* track (TrueHD/DTS-HD/MPCM) to loss*y* tracks (DD/DTS) is kind of like comparing a CD's PCM audio to a ripped MP3...stress "kind of". DD/DTS use perceptual encoding to throw stuff away, never to return. You don't say what format you were listening to. Even DD+, which is lossy, but with a much higher bitrate, and one hopes, less loss, *should* be an improvement over DD/DTS. 

Using coaxial/optical digital from A1 to Sony will only give you the same DD/DTS tracks from standard DVD. Those connections aren't capable of lossless transport. 

If you go HDMI for lossless, unless the Sony does native lossless bitstream decoding the comparison will really be between the A1's DACs/BM/delay processing versus the Sony's. Without lossless bitstream, the A1 will "decode" the lossless tracks to multi-channel PCM and send the MPCM to the Sony for further processing, assuming it's capable of handling MPCM properly.

-Brent


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## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

Thanks Brent for the info.

The Sony should be able to decode the lossless audio. Strange thing, when I just left the DVD playing and at some point I was getting audio. Once, I stopped and restarted the disk audio was gone again. I have messed with it for way too long now. I have another hdmi cable coming I am hopeful it will work with the new cable. 

I was under the impression that both HDMI and Optical would support lossless audio formats. Oh no. Wait. After looking at the audio output formats HDMI does support higher lossless rates. I think???

And I thought this would be simple with one cable and all. LOL. Oh my.


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## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

Well turning AVR and Player off and on did not do anything. I guess I must wait for thy new cable and try that. 

I do not like the fact that if I switch the AVR to any other input or just audio modes the player stops - I guess due to loosing the HDCP handshake between the AVR and Player?. That is just a poor design IMO. Perhaps newer/better AVRs and Players handle this better?


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

The 5200ES does not do native lossless decoding. It's HDMI v1.2 according to the UltimateAV review. The 5300ES does claim TrueHD/DTS-HD decoding in house.

Some devices can have a master/slave arrangment via HDMI. However, if you're losing audio after start/stop, I'd check for firmware updates for both devices, if you haven't already.

-Brent


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## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

Ahh - well there ya go! I will have to live without TrueHD for the time being. 

I did upgrade the player to the latest fw, I do not even know if the AVR supports upgradeable fw. Bummer. I will double check that.

Thanks again Brent for the info. Most helpful!


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## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

Here are the formats the 5200ES supports - TrueHD is not there. Boo. 

*Dolby® Digital Decoding: Yes
Dolby® Pro Logic® II Decoding: Yes
DTS® 96/24 Decoding: Yes
DTS® NEO:6 Decoding: Yes
Dolby® Digital EX Decoding: Yes
Dolby® Pro Logic® IIX Decoding: Yes
Amplification Relocation: Yes
Digital Cinema Sound™ Technology: Yes
Dolby® Pro Logic® Decoding: Yes
dts®-ES Decoding: Yes*


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## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

I am thinking (Uh-Oh).

My optimal audio setup then is what I am doing. Using the analog 5.1 outputs connected to the Multi-In. I just let the player decode the audio and use the analog inputs/outputs. Am I correct about this? 

And after all that, Are there any HDDVD movies that support the new audio formats? Just curious.


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Why not let the player decode to 5.1 multichannel linear PCM and send that via HDMI to the AVR? This way is better in that you can still use the AVR for the bass management, distance comp, any room equalization, speaker levels, etc.

Those of us who use the player's 5.1 analog outputs, do so because we do not have a AVR with HDMI that takes in multichannel linear PCM.

Most HD DVD titles use DD+, some have lossless Dolby TrueHD, some use the newer dts-HD varients (player only can extract legacy 5.1 dts 1509 kbps core).


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## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

Bob.
Ok. I will. So far I cannot get that to work either. Waiting on a new HDMI cable which I hope is the problem. And if that does not work, I am also getting an optical cable to try as well. Hopefully between the 2 cables I can get the LPCM to work. Thanks for help!


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

The Sony 5200ES, for sure, will accept (input) multichannel linear PCM via its HDMI 1.2a interface.

I would not bother with getting linear PCM via S/PDIF (coax or optical Toslink) since you can only get two channels (stereo) that way. You can use the S/PDIF for legacy lossy 5.1 or 6.1 bitstream formats (DD or dts).


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## PhotoByMark (Jan 13, 2008)

Well, I have run out of ideas trying to get any HDMI audio to work. Tried every option in the player, auto, pcm, bitstream, reduced pcm, turned off and on both AVR And player in all 4 possible combination. Still no worky. I am hopeful it is just a bad cable. Perhaps I missed a configuration option somewhere? 

Any thoughts?


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