# Projector & Screen Recommendations



## Tommy

Alright I need some recommendations. Originally we were planning on getting a plasma so I did my homework on that instead of this.

I want something good. I'm not sure the price ranges of projectors though. I got about 5k put aside for the video.

For the screen, I dont need anything that retracts in the ceiling. I'd rather have something fixed on the wall with a nice frame.

Room is 20x14 and has no windows.

Any other info I need to provide?


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## Sonnie

I can tell you one thing for sure... for $5K.. you can get a super duper nice setup!

As far as the screen size, I'd not worry too much about that for now. Get the projector first and then use your wall painted white to project from 90" up to about 110" and see which you'll like the best... then build or buy your screen to fit what you size you like.

I'm not up on projectors other than the Sanyo Z4, which would only run you about $1700-1800. Saving about $1000-1200 for a nice screen (outside of DIY)... that leaves you with $3800-4000 for the projector. I'm thinkin' you can find a nicer projector than the Z4 for that kind of money, unless you simply want to save some $$$ and apply it to something else.

Maybe some of our guys with more knowledge of the nicer projectors can chime in and help you with some suggestions.


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## bobgpsr

Sorry I am not a real expert on projectors or screens.

Here are links to screen reviews on another forum:

White, Grey, or Silver - A Review

Mirage/DNP Black Screen vs. Firehawk vs. Silverstar

And a summary. This guy ended up with a Silverstar and was very happy:


Hope these help!
Bob


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## Phil M

Projectors continue to decline in price and represent great value. I installed a Runco projector two years ago and picked the brains of the installer at the time, and also had an ISF calibration performed. This helped me on the learning curve. Before this I had a CRT projector, with a DaLite screen. I use a Stewart Grayhawk with the Runco DLP. My ISF calibrater is a perfectionist, and puts significant emphasis on using the screen that matches the projector. Stewart make great screens, but you can save money by buying a DaLite and
still have a great image.

A projector getting great reviews is the Optima HD72 - $2k (review in May 'Home Theater'). Also Infocus/Yamaha models seem to score highly. My installer likes the Panasonic AE9000 but reviews mark it down for poor black levels, in addition owners of the previous model, AE7000, have had huge problems in acquiring replacement bulbs.


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## Fincave

Not an expert either! There are basically two camps, DLP and LCD. LCD is supposed to have better colour reproduction but the contrast is not as good, ie black is not black rather a very dark blue (I use an LCD pj onto a grey screen and black seems black to me, maybe need to have my eyes tested ) DLP supposedly has better contrast but colour reproduction is not as good, not sure if there really is much difference. One thing to watch out for with DLP is the so called 'rainbow effect' some people see it, some people really suffer from it (headaches etc) and some of us don't see it at all. Here are a couple of links showing the rainbow effect http://www.3lcd.com/eg/pup_1_e.html and http://www.dietforum.net/balagee/projected/rainbow.html 

Connection types are also important though am sure that most pj's will have 'Component in' and probably also HDMI which is supposed to give better PQ (have also read that there is very little difference between the two). Depending on how many sources you are planning to connect or view using the pj the number of connections can be important as well, not sure on the specs of your receiver but most will let you route 2-3 component sources through them which is handy as you only then need to run one set of cables from your receiver to the pj.

Noise level is also important, pjs use a fan to cool the lamp and they vary in how much noise they make, depending on where the pj is seated in relation to your seating a few db's can make a difference. Here is a link giving a bit more info on the two technologies http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcd_dlp.htm

As to the screen, DIY is the way to go IMO, you get a very good result for a fraction of the cost, the money saved can be put towards buying better quality cables or even popcorn for a year or two:laugh: 

Hope this helps!


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## Sonnie

Good info Fincave :T


Phil... on the Panny's... are you talking about the AE700 and AE900 or do they have a 7000 and 9000?

ISF calibration... Tommy, as Phil eluded to... this might be something to figure in the cost of your video setup. Figure about 1000 or so for the screen, 200 for the mount, 500 for ISF (???), and that leaves you still 3300 for a nice projector.

Check out our banner with Projector People above... they offer some great package deals. I'd probably call them direct and tell them you need the pj, mount, cable, and screen. Actually I found my 25' HDMI cable cheaper else where... cheaper ones are scattered about the net.


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## JCD

Another member without much projector experience...

All I can give you would be:

this

this

this


If you're looking at fixed screens, and you don't go the DIY route, I still think Carada is going to be the best deal you'll find.

JCD


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## Tommy

I just had an installer come out an give me an estimate, got a few more scheduled to come out this week too and also I was curious to what they'll charge and what the recommend. 

And like what was mentioned above I'm probably going to have to pay someone to calibrate it afterwards anyway right?

Anyway they use Vidikron of something similar sounding and said there middle of the line model that would offer HD would be around 5k. Does that sound right?


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## Fincave

Maybe I am part Scottish, read 'tight', but I would do the calibration myself. Get a calibration disc like http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_6_2/aviadvd.html It will take some time but you should get pretty good results. The disc can also be used to calibrate and fine tune your sound as well.

Edit: Not trying to offend Scottish people


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## Sonnie

From a local installer that's probably about right. I'd buy online for much less and install it... fairly easy. Then have the ISF tech come out and calibrate it for you.

ISF calibration is not mandatory. My Z4 looks fabulous and I did it with AVIA and my eyes. It's one of the more difficult ones to setup. The Panny AE900 on the other hand is supposedly good right out of the box. See the reviews at www.projectorcentral.com


EDIT: Great minds think alike... heehee


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## JCD

Tommy said:


> I just had an installer come out an give me an estimate, got a few more scheduled to come out this week too and also I was curious to what they'll charge and what the recommend.
> 
> And like what was mentioned above I'm probably going to have to pay someone to calibrate it afterwards anyway right?
> 
> Anyway they use Vidikron of something similar sounding and said there middle of the line model that would offer HD would be around 5k. Does that sound right?



The price for the Vidikron I think is in line with what you could find online. I've heard of the line, but don't have any good or bad feelings about the brand. You may or may not be able to find a better projector, or one 'good enough', at a lower cost.

One other note, the installer may or may not be able to do a real ISF calibration. ISF calibrators are certified by ISF. It doesn't necessarily mean that you can't get a great calibration by going to someone else, but ISF offer a certain level of security that they've been properly trained and are aware of and know how to tweak the internal/hidden controls of the projector. As a 'civilian', we'll only have access to controls on the outside of the box. Just something to be aware of when you get your quote.

Using the disk mentioned above will probably get you within 90-95% of what a ISF trained person could get -- the hidden controls will still not be accessable and there is some equipment that the ISF guys utilize that you won't. I use the Sound & Vision disk which is probably a small step down from the Avia disk listed above. I blame the CPA in me for being so chea..err, frugal.


JCD


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## Phil M

I've just looked at the May 'Sound & Vision' its worth looking at for their 'budget' projector review - they test 8.
The top slots go to the following:

Infocus Play Big IN76
Panasonic AE900U (Sonnie my 0 on the earlier post should have been a U!)
Samsung SP-H710AE

The Samsung came out tops - this is the Joe Kane (ISF) projector that has dropped in price significantly, its now available for $3,500 ($4,000 list). When it came out it was over $10k I believe.

Having an ISF calibration made a huge difference to the color reproduction of my projector, the human eye with a test disc cannot compete track gray scale. An ISF calibration gives accurate colors and pure whites - it's more noticeable on accuracy of skin tones. Is it worth it? You can survive without it, but if you buy the Samsung it is supposed to be ISF calibrated out of the box. I would pay $300 for a calibration


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## Tommy

I'm agreeing but I will keep the rest of the appointments and see what they say. At the worst I can use the info as a comparision at the best I might actually get someone honest and fair enought to consider. 

If the calibration stuff can be done by tools/software that I can buy I may just do it. 

I would like to ask though, the two professional places around me both recommend projectors that are in the 5k range so far. I realize the salesman and trying to get the most but is there really a difference in that range of projectors compared to the around 2k range suggested here?


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## Phil M

Projectors are like computers - price comes down, performance increases. I would hazard a guess that a $2k projector today is as good as a $5k projector of 2-3 years ago. 
I would go and demo a few projectors at different price ranges.


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## Sonnie

Totally agree with Phil here. Really good projectors have surfaced that are rather inexpensive. I know there are people out there who have spent $5,000 or more on a projector recently that may notice a difference over one that cost $2,000. However, from reading numerous reviews by the guys who have reviewed loads of these projectors, I'm reading that several of the $2,000 projectors are giving the more expensive ones a run for their money. The real question would be (IMO)... does the $5,000 projector give you $3,000 worth of better picture? I can tell you that I would find it extremely hard to believe that I could find a projector to please me $3,000 dollars worth more than my Z4, which is stunning to say the least.

Take the time to read some reviews of the $2,000 projectors, then read the more expensive projector reviews... then demo some of each somewhere and see if you can conclude that there is enough monetary difference to justify spending more. You would be doing yourself an injustice to simply spend more just because you think spending more will get you more. I'm not accusing you of thinking that... just trying to help you be cautious.


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## bricor

Tommy,

I own a custom install biz that I do part time. The reason most of the guys coming to you are quoting projectors over $5k is there is no margin in the cheaper projectors. Are they better, eh, maybe, maybe not. 

I'd recommend the Samsung 710 mentioned above and a Stewart studiotek screen for the best bang for the buck picture quality. They were designed to work together and the 710 out of the box is well calibrated. AVS is selling it for a killer price as well. 

If you want to save a few bucks, then the new dlps like the Optoma HD72, Infocus IN76 and Mitsubishi HC3000 are all very good. I've had great luck with the mitsubishi's myself (installed more than 10 of them). 

Carada makes a nice screen, I've installed a few of them for people that wanted to save a few bucks. I also use the Screen Innovations screen quite a bit when trying to offer people a good screen at a good price.

The other thing you need to look at if you go DIY is the throw and offset of the projector to make sure it will work in your room. That often eliminates projectors.

An ISF calibration is far and above better than what you can do with a disk, if the guy is worth his weight. He should be adjusting greyscale and such via the service menu's which can make a huge difference in the overall pic. But some projectors are so good out of the box (like the 710) that it may not be worth the extra $$$ to squeeze that last little bit out of it.


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## Tommy

Thanks for everyones input and thanks for point out the review links. I usually do like to base things off reviews and thats one of the reasons for asking on the site to get everyones peronal review on projectors they have.

Besides outside reviews, correct me if Im wrong, it looks like basically 3 projectors spoke about mose here:

Sanyo Z4	
Optima HD72 
Samsung 710

Comparing the dlp & lcd mentioned earlier, which is better? 

I should make sure the projector has HD right? Anything else?


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## Sonnie

I believe any of those can do HD right... choosing which one is going to have to be your decision. Some people like DLP and some like LCD, while some like both and would be happy with either... refer back to Fincave's post #5 in this thread.


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## fibreKid

As Sonnie states, it's a personal choice "There is no best". I need to state for the record that the DLP rainbow effect is real and if you see them it can really tick you off. I own a DLP and didn't see them in the store. I started to see slight flashes of red/green and ended up returning the TV for other reasons and got a newer model about 5 months later. Well now I can see the complete Red/Green/Blue flash (lucky me). I have reduced the contrast (white level) and that helped but I still see them enough to get irked. Don't ge me wrong I've had the TV for 17 months and I love the picture quality, I just hate the rainbows. You are going to pay good money, make sure that you and your family can't see them. One way to see them is to pull up the TV menu which may have a bright white bar somewhere next to black and then let your eyes dart around. The display of the TV menues doesn't seem to be affected by the user settings. If not then try watching the movie credits. I know you are interested in a projector but being able to watch all of the ones you are interested in may be hard, finding DLP TVs is simple. If you can see them on the small screen it will be worse on the big screen. Also watching a TV in the store with the bright lights makes it harder to see them. If you can find a store that may have dimmer lighting, for example Magnolia Hi Fi in San Jose Calif. has a large room with 15 20 models set up in a room with very dim light. 

Happy hunting (for the projector)
-john


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## ghozt

I would recommend the Optoma HD72. I have it and an Optima gray wolf 92" screen. The picture is awesome and since you have a light controled room, front projection would be an viable option for you. The only downside when considering front projection IMO is... You have to have a stereo or audio system seperate from your "tv". Some wifes and kids don't like this because it means more gear to turn on/off.


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## Derek

I'll preface this with "I know nothing about projectors" but I did get an ISF calibration for my RPTV. Six hours with much time of my TV torn apart, two pages of notes and settings (internal configuration) and $500 later the picture is AMAZING. I've got the digital essentials disc and couldn't come close to what the tech did. People always comment they've never seen a picture that good before.

Just stopped here to learn about projectors:laugh:


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## Phil M

Hi Derek, it's not until you've seen the results of an ISF calibration that you really appreciate what a significant improvement it makes to the image.
After spending thousands of $ on a piece of equipment it's not fun having to spend $500 to get a corrected image. It's like buying a new car and having to take it to the auto tuner to get the mpg and 0-60mph in spec. This is what upsets everyone!
However, the reality is that, out of the box, very few display devices are able to accurately reproduce what was intended by the movie director. 
The various test discs get you part way on the basics, but do not get into the serious detail that an ISF calibration does.


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## Tommy

Wow thanks all, I'm still not close to a decision all the suggestions and advice are a lot for me to go research and look into.

Right now I'm still trying to figure at DLP or LCD, whats everyones opinion on which is better?

I believe it was Fincave that first brought it up with some helpfull links. I got to read a bit over the weekend and at least the book that I was reading definetly favored dlp over the lcd. I didnt see anything about this rainbow effect that Fincave mentioned in the book.

From what I gather the dlp has some advantages with the color black and screen door effect was lessened on a dlp screen compared to a lcd.

Others, opinions?


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## JCD

Based on research I did for rear projection tv's (as opposed to front projection you're looking at) about a year ago, DLP was the winner. It was cheaper, lasted longer, and had a better _overall _picture. Granted, it was for a rear projector, but all of the issues are/were the same.

The one major caveat is that research was done a year ago, and electronics in this area is RAPIDLY changing. Seems to me that the last review I read (before the one below) had the LCD (which was more expensive) beating a DLP projector.

I'm assuming you read this article referenced in an earlier post. Also, you can take a look at S&V's recommended equipment here. They recommend both DLP and LCD units, but the DLP is the top dawg (and most expensive) of the group.

In the end, I think you'll do fine with either technology. Unlike speakers, I find it's impossible to tell what the picture quality is like at the stores. First, I generally can't find a store that specializes in video only. Second, they almost ALWAYS adjust the sets WAY too hot/bright/blue in the showrooms. They sell better because they look more impressive -- just like a speaker that is playing louder will be percieved to sound better all other things being equal. For better or worse, this is only time I usually defer to the magazine 'experts' for what to buy.

Well, that's my $0.02 for the day.

JCD


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## Sonnie

It's a tough decision... and I'll reiterate a couple of things to consider and address a couple of your statements at the same time.

Just a few months ago when I started considering a replacement for my Z2 i considered both DLP and LCD. At that time to get the same quality DLP as LCD I (soley based on numerous reviews) I would have had to spend at least another $1500. A couple of the reviewers did elude to some up and coming DLP's that would be competitive price wise with the LCD's. Whether those have surfaced or not... I do not know. LCD's have come a long way in the last couple of years and offer some superb quality.

The rainbow effect is a reality with DLP... it's there, but you may not notice it. It's critical that you at least do an in door demo of one and do the normal checks for rainbow effect and see if you notice it. If you don't then you'll be fine... but get one in your home and notice and you will _most likely_ be regretting it.

Screen door effect is a reality with LCD... it's there, but with my Z4 and a 97" diagonal screen, I do not see it until I get to about 7-8' from the screen and I'll never be sitting that close. Again, this is something you want to demo and see for yourself... some folks notice it from farther away than others... and some LCD's are better than others for this.

If the DLP's that were suppose to surface at lesser pricing have actually surfaced and the rainbow effect doesn't bother you... DLP may be your best choice. I'd make sure the native resolution is 1280 X 720. If DLP's are still running higher and/or rainbow effect bothers you then LCD may be your better choice. I can really be a tough decision when it's all said and done.

That's my final penny's worth... (I'm cheaper than JCD :R)


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## Josuah

You can also get ISF-like quality calibration for your projector if you buy one that has been tested by Steve Smallcombe over at Secrets. Then you can just use those adjustments for your projector. There's also someone that does them in Europe, but I can't recall the person's name or the publication/forum.

Since there are so many different chips and wheel configurations for DLP projectors, the visibility of the rainbow effect on one DLP projector can be very different from the one on a different DLP projector. And an SXRD (a Sony LCD technology) projector is supposed to dramatically reduce the screen-door-effect.

One of the more critical projector features that you might not have thought about yet is horizontal and vertical lens shift. This is an absolute must for me because I mounted the projector myself on a ceiling stud, and built my own screen to hang from the ceiling, centered also but with adjustable height. If you can't use lens shift to adjust the picture location and you really need to be able to, you might end up hating yourself every time you watch a movie.


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## Tommy

Thanks all - I think I'm leaning towards the DLP. The screen door effect is the more important factor. I asked the HT installer about the rainbow effect and he said (of course this may just be another sales pitch) not to worry about it for the models in the 3-5k range.

His demo was with a MITSUBISHI DLP, I dont know which model but he said it sold for around 4k. The picture was nice but I really havent viewed many others to base a comparison for the money towards. 

I also havent heard anyone mention MITSUBISHI here at all.

Ok so I'm still looking in the 3-5k range and not worried about the extra expense, I just trying to make sure I do get a great model for that range.


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## Tommy

Ok let me try asking something slightly different, there are so many different sites offering differing reviews on projectors, is there a trustworthy review site that anyone recommends?


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## Josuah

I was just going to say visit Projector Central. But they don't perform the color calibration tests that Steve Smallcombe does at Secrets. So when I was shopping around, I combined the two, although ultimately put more weight on the Secrets review.


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## Fincave

Tommy said:


> Thanks all - I think I'm leaning towards the DLP. The screen door effect is the more important factor.


Am using a Sanyo Z3 (LCD) onto a 100" screen and can state that from my viewing distance screen door effect is not a problem, getting up close to the screen you can see it but as Sonnie previously stated you would never sit that close. Panasonic have a projector ( Panasonic AE900U) that is in competition with the Sanyo Z4 and is popular. Panasonic have something called 'smooth screen technology' which is supposed to eliminate the screen door effect, I have no idea how well it works but have read on other forums that users are happy with it. Details on the Panny can be read here http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae900.htm

I would also strongly suggest you have a look at a few other forums as well where you can read users comments, they are generally not trying to sell you anything so may be more unbiased.


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## Tommy

I see good reviews for the Benq PE8720. It averages for 6k but I see it on sale for 3,900

Has anyone seen or used this brand?


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## Phil M

Tommy, Benq gets good reviews - similar to Infocus.
You mentioned Vidikron in an earlier post - this is a Runco brand that is typically supplied by custom installers. I have a single chip Runco DLP and have been very very happy with it.

If you're are looking at $5k then you need to consider the Sony Ruby - at this price point it is THE projector to get. If you want to spend less I would take Bricors advice and seriously consider the Samsung.

I saw the Ruby last week for the first time, and was very impressed - but it did need a calibration. They were showing King Kong, which I saw the night before on my Runco. The skin tones were a little off. Nevertheless the light output and resolution were amazing. With the Samsung you're getting a bargain, the projector didn't sell as most buyers do not assosciate Samsung with high end projectors, it was then killed in the market with the pricing of the Ruby. Consequently its being heavily discounted to move it off the shelf.


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## Tommy

Dang more choices... ok I'm off to look up the sony one now...


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## Tommy

hahaha came right back, found it at 8 to 10 k range, now thats higher then even I want to spend.

Just trying to find the best one for the 4-5 k range.


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## Phil M

Sorry Tommy - I got confused on the Ruby price.


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## Tommy

We went to Tweeters last night (stretching to go anywhere that has a demo model) and they had this yamaha LCD projector you could see the SDE from the entire room, the pic was dull and I'm not sure how old a model it was but the thing was huge.


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## Guest

As an owner of a Panasonic PT-AE900U, I can say that you really have to try and find the screen-door effect. I sit 10' away from a 92" screen and its not visible. I can get up to 5' away and am still happy.

Highly recommended. :T 

I looked at the Sanyo Z4 quite a bit as well, read a lot of reviews, really thought about it hard :dizzy: , but at the time I pulled the trigger the Panasonic was best bang/buck. Most reviews pick them out as pretty close. If this is your first projo, I don't really think you coudl go wrong with either. 

Hope this helps - 

~Josh


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## JimPeitersen

I've seen the Panny and Sanyo and both will provide a very nice picture. The thing I liked about the Panny (and is making think of an upgrade right now) was that I was very quiet! In "whisper" mode, you simply could not tell is was running unless your ear was next to the machine. Did you decide on a screen or are you going to DIY?
JP


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