# Which "Mono Mode" to Use?



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Hello Friends.

If this isn't the correct place of the forum to put this question to all our knowledgeable folk, I leave it to moderators to indeed find the more appropriate section and move it at will. My apologies in advance if it wasn't the correct area...

I was wondering what some of you enthusiasts use in terms of a processing mode for old films on disc with mono soundtracks -- my Onkyo 605 offers a "Mono Movie" mode which I use to process 1.0 soundtracks of older films, but there are other DSP modes available for these kinds of audio signals such as "Full Mono" which sends the signal to all speakers (like "All Channel Stereo") and just plain "Mono" which oddly sends the track to the two main channels. When a DVD has a soundtrack in "2.0 Mono," my receiver's Pro Logic II circuits steer the two-channel mix directly into the center channel for playback. When the soundtrack is in pure 1.0, the "Mono Movie" mode takes the track, drops it into the center channel and is also supposed to add some kind of fake "reverb" to the other channels to give the mix presence -- however, I do not hear anything but center activity using Mono Movie. 

What's the "correct" way of watching an old film that contains a mono soundtrack through a processor or receiver...should the whole track just come through the center position, as reportedly intended? I tried the "All Channel" modes and it simply sounds weird with dialogue coming from every channel in the system -- also, "Mono" from the two mains sounds weird too, with a strange "comb filtering" effect that cannot localize or nail down the image. It sounds terrible this way, actually, even though some argue that playing an old mono soundtrack sounds much better coming from the two main channels...

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

You know I don't think I have any mono films so therefore cannot offer any advice, all my films are at least 5.1 or stereo DD 2.0 :whistling:


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

If by "correct", you mean, closest to the movie experience of old -- I would use whatever just sent the mono signal to the center channel.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
When playing back Mono Films, I use Mono Movie Mode. It really comes down to what sounds best to you. You could use All Channel Stereo and have the same signal going to all Channels if it sounds good to you.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

recruit said:


> You know I don't think I have any mono films so therefore cannot offer any advice, all my films are at least 5.1 or stereo DD 2.0 :whistling:


Thank you anyway, John...:wave:


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Anthony said:


> If by "correct", you mean, closest to the movie experience of old -- I would use whatever just sent the mono signal to the center channel.


Yes, Anthony, that was part of what I was asking -- in trying to ascertain the closest way to how the films were showed in the theaters of yesteryear with these older pictures.

I've heard it both ways -- that old movie houses actually played the soundtracks of these mono-soundtracked films through an array of speakers/horns in the front of the auditorium, as well as the argument that the audio actually came from all the speakers in the entire auditorium's array. 

Is the center channel method closer to what was used for mono playback -- and is that how the soundtrack on these 1.0 and 2.0 mono encoded discs are supposed to be played back? I have tried it all ways -- that is, using the two front main channels (but that causes a strange "comb filtering" effect that makes dialogue extremely odd-sounding), or sending the entire mono track through all channels in what Onkyo calls a "Full Mono" mode, but it sounds really bizarre with the dialogue coming from all around me, as well as choosing a mode that puts the entire track into the center channel. To me, the most "natural" option is the one coming from the center position, but I was just curious as to what the most popular method of dealing with even these "2.0 Mono" soundtracks was -- I have read that the 2.0 mono designation is actually still mono, but it's encoded into two channels. When played back using Pro Logic II detection, it drops the entire signal into the center channel, but some argue that these 2.0 mono tracks are SUPPOSED to be played back through the two mains...

:huh:


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> When playing back Mono Films, I use Mono Movie Mode. It really comes down to what sounds best to you. You could use All Channel Stereo and have the same signal going to all Channels if it sounds good to you.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Hello Jack,

I too use Onkyo's "Mono Movie" mode, but according to the manual for my particular receiver (and this applies to all Onkyos that use this DSP mode), by using this mode, the main signal is supposed to be placed in the center channel while some kind of "reverb" is added to the other channels to create "presence" on the mono track -- however, I DO NOT hear this effect with any mono soundtrack I play through my 605. Mono tracks simply play back through the center speaker and there's no "reverb effect" in any of the other channels.

The thing is, in the way I have my Listening Modes setup for auto detection in my receiver's menu, I have "Mono Movie" set to play back when a true 1.0 mono signal is detected. With 2.0 Mono soundtracks, the Pro Logic II circuits take over, because of the "2-channel" designation, and the whole 2.0 Mono track is dropped right into the center channel. Now, during playback, I can take a 2.0 mono track and force the Mono Movie mode to process it, but I figure why not just let the Pro Logic II system steer it the way it should?

I have experimented with "All Channel Stereo" and even the more "appropriate" "FULL MONO" modes, but the experience of getting the dialogue from every channel was unnerving and annoying -- I'm trying to discover if there's a certain "standard" that should be followed for playing back these older mono-equipped films...are they intended to really come from the center position only?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Movies that were made in Mono such as in the 1930's used either 1 Speaker or multiple Speakers behind the Screen. Whether it was 1 or multiple, the Soundtrack was the same.

So if truly wanting to reproduce Movies that were made in Mono as they were intended, using just the Center Channel would be the closest analog.

If memory serves, on Criterion Collection Releases that were originally made in Mono, only the Center Channel is active when played back on DVD. Though I do not have any Criterion Collection Blu Ray's, I would imagine they would follow suit.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Movies that were made in Mono such as in the 1930's used either 1 Speaker or multiple Speakers behind the Screen. Whether it was 1 or multiple, the Soundtrack was the same.


Many films I have on DVD from the '70s, mainly, utilize a "2.0 Mono" designation for the audio, and these are "collapsed" into the center channel via Pro Logic II. 



> So if truly wanting to reproduce Movies that were made in Mono as they were intended, using just the Center Channel would be the closest analog.


Do you mean the "closest to analog"? Or something else?



> If memory serves, on Criterion Collection Releases that were originally made in Mono, only the Center Channel is active when played back on DVD. Though I do not have any Criterion Collection Blu Ray's, I would imagine they would follow suit.
> Cheers,
> JJ


From how I understand it and from my own experience with a good deal of titles with these soundtracks in my personal collection, it all depends on the processing used for whatever designation the studio used on the discs -- in other words, with "2.0 Mono" soundtracks, this misleads many people as it's still just mono but the same signal is duplicated on two channels. That's why with these soundtracks, when Pro Logic II is engaged, it "sees" the signal as identical and steers the whole thing into the center channel. However, if your system is set up for 2.0 signals to be processed through "Direct" mode, then these 2.0 mono tracks get played back through the front left and right channels. 

With actual one-channel mono (as probably on the Criterion releases you mentioned), the 1.0 mono track is definitely supposed to be played back through the center position -- but processors and AVRs are a bit quirky in how they deal with these. See, on my old Onkyo TX-SR600, true 1.0 mono signals were simply dropped into the center channel with the "Dolby D" mode engaged on the display, as the mono was still a Dolby Digital stream on the DVD. With the newer TX-SR605, these 1.0 mono signals must be processed by the AVR somehow -- under my Listening Mode Presets menu, there is a selection for "Digital Format: MONO" that allows you to set a mode to process these 1.0 signals. I have selected "MONO MOVIE" (as you use as well) to deal with these signals, but my point is, with so much confusion and options with these modes and mono processing possibilites, I lost sight of how these are actually supposed to be played back...onder: :rubeyes: :blink::dontknow:


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Anyone have any more input on this subject? I watched the 1979 film "Meteor" last night, which I recently ordered on DVD, and MGM supplied the English 2.0 mono track, which I just played back through my center channel...

Anyone else with any "mono thoughts"...???


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

I've been looking for DVDs with a mono 1.0 track in my collection, to see how my Denon treats them. So far, I'm only finding DVDs with mono 2.0 tracks. 

Thinking about it, this should not make any difference if you are sitting equidistant between your speakers, or at the point you used when establishing the distance settings in your receiver. Comb filtering should appear at the higher frequencies, as you move off center. 

Bill


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

laser188139 said:


> I've been looking for DVDs with a mono 1.0 track in my collection, to see how my Denon treats them. So far, I'm only finding DVDs with mono 2.0 tracks.


Thanks for the response, Bill. I appreciate it. Indeed, in my collection, the mono encoded films are mainly "2.0" which I think is just a waste of time and/or space; in the end, these are supposed to be played back from the center channel anyway, from what I have been hearing/reading, so 2.0 merely means when someone doesn't have a center channel and their processor is set to treat incoming signals as "Direct," it will send the 2.0 mono to the front mains -- but in my systems, this has always sounded very odd. 



> Thinking about it, this should not make any difference if you are sitting equidistant between your speakers, or at the point you used when establishing the distance settings in your receiver. Comb filtering should appear at the higher frequencies, as you move off center.
> 
> Bill


I am sitting equidistant between my mains, and always have, but I do experience comb filtering and its unfortunate effects when playing back 2.0 mono tracks through my mains. The dialogue is lost somewhere, and the whole experience just sounds awkward and strange -- something I have read is not that uncommon playing mono material through just the two front channels.


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## Roger Dressler (Aug 1, 2009)

Osage_Winter said:


> I am sitting equidistant between my mains, and always have, but I do experience comb filtering and its unfortunate effects when playing back 2.0 mono tracks through my mains. The dialogue is lost somewhere, and the whole experience just sounds awkward and strange -- something I have read is not that uncommon playing mono material through just the two front channels.


If you turn on PLII Movie mode, it will put all the sound through the center speaker. If that turns out to be too "narrow" then try PLII Music mode, and adjust the center width control to taste. At the the full "phantom" position is will be the same as you have now--2-ch mono. If you set it the full center, then it is pure mono.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Roger Dressler said:


> If you turn on PLII Movie mode, it will put all the sound through the center speaker.


Indeed, it does, Roger. Due to the Pro Logic II circuits "seeing" a two-channel signal but it still being mono, so it steers the "common" mono information to the center position. I understand how that works. 



> If that turns out to be too "narrow" then try PLII Music mode, and adjust the center width control to taste. At the the full "phantom" position is will be the same as you have now--2-ch mono. If you set it the full center, then it is pure mono.


That's something I did not consider trying -- putting the Pro Logic II Music mode on, and stretching the Panorama effects and such. That's interesting. I see what you're saying about getting it to "stretch" through the front soundstage by playing with PLII Music's parameters.

But in the end, how were these mono soundtracks _supposed_ to be reproduced? Should we be experiencing them strictly from the center channel position in a multi-channel setup?


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