# Bluray player audio:"Dumbed-Down Digital Outputs"???



## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

http://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/news/18614657-creating-a-high-resolution-5-1-music-server

John Siau writes this current article _"Creating a High-Resolution 5.1 Music Server."_ I'm always interested in various ways to accomplish something, but he writes that _all_ Bluray player digital outputs are dumbed-down. Is this true? I've never heard this.

The article describes how to get high resolution audio from the Bluray disc to the speakers. He writes that _"No high-resolution audio is available at the digital outputs *on any currently-available [Bluray] player*!"_
I understood that my Bluray player HDMI output is sending the original Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD signal, which usually contains high resolution audio, to my AVR. But John writes that _"...the digital outputs are dumbed down to sample rates of *44.1 or 48 kHz at a bit-depth of 16 bits*...also limited to 2 channel PCM or *lossy compressed 5.1 formats*."_

In the article, the first 3 subject areas describe Bluray audio formats and how currently no standalone Bluray player can output high resolution. So the rest of the article explains how he transmits the high resolution audio using a computer.


In case you don't want to read the article, here are a few of the important quotes...

_"*Blu-ray players are prohibited from having high-resolution digital outputs.* Users are forced to listen to the high-resolution tracks through the D/A converters that are built into the disk player."

"The content is on the disk, but it is completely inaccessible to most users."

"An examination of the digital outputs on DVD and Blu-ray players will show that *the digital outputs are dumbed down to sample rates of 44.1 or 48 kHz at a bit-depth of 16 bits*. These digital outputs are also *limited to 2 channel PCM or lossy compressed 5.1 formats. No high-resolution audio is available at the digital outputs on any currently-available player!*"_


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Im a little confused at to what you are saying. 
I know for a fact the HDMI outputs exactly what is on the disc uncompressed if you send it bitstream. Yes, using the optical or the coax digital output you will dowconvert that signal to only DTS or Dolby digital. 

Going from a 48kHz sample down to 44kHz sample is virtually inaudible unless you have some really good speakers and the rest of your signal chain is up to the task.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

gdstupak said:


> John Siau writes this current article _"Creating a High-Resolution 5.1 Music Server."_ I'm always interested in various ways to accomplish something, but he writes that _all_ Bluray player digital outputs are dumbed-down. Is this true? I've never heard this.


Interesting. I have seen specs of inexpensive modern Bluray players that claim otherwise. Whenever someone makes extreme, sweeping claims like that, I am usually skeptical.

It is my understanding that digital outputs like SPDIF (coaxial) or TOSLINK (optical) are prohibited from carrying high-resolution digital signals because they make it easy to record and possibly pirate that signal. But HDMI carries the high-resolution signal because the receiving end reports back to the source what kind of device the audio is going into, helping prevent piracy.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

What has been quoted in this thread as statements of John Siau is misleading. Everyone knows by now that S/PDIF outputs (optical or electrical) are not capable of HD multichannel output. OTOH, HDMI is. As example, get a 2L BD-A with multiple audio formats and try them all. You can clearly see on the processor's readout of HDMI input signal sample rates up to 24/192 whether sent bitstream (Dolby HD or dts MA) or as converted to PCM in the player. I primarily use the Oppo players but I have connected them, via HDMI, to more than 1/2 dozen processors. In addition, 

As for the title "Creating a High-Resolution 5.1 Music Server," some of us have been using them for a couple of years now. See: 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-60-page-2
http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-61 
http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-63-page-2
While all of these are based on using USB to the DACs, I also have a MacMini-based server which feeds the same processors via HDMI.

So, what's new in the referred to post? Dunno. He never mentions HDMI or USB but uses a studio-grade digital interface. Some of us have use that, too.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

John Siau used this computer music server to set up Mark Waldrep's (AIX Records/Itrax) AXPONA demo room at the Lakeshore B Ballroom.

Tony, for some reason, John Siau is saying that all Bluray players dumb-down the original high resolution audio when using the digital output. This is why he had to make a special music server using a computer.
When I read it, I didn't believe it, so I wanted to ask this forum for clarification.
If I'm understanding the article correctly, I can't imagine why he is putting that information out.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok, well his wording seems off as Kal says. HDMI is different than the Digital outputs of coax and optical so maybe that's where he is coming from.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> Ok, well his wording seems off as Kal says. HDMI is different than the Digital outputs of coax and optical so maybe that's where he is coming from.


I saw this announcement before and thought it rather self-serving because it makes no reference to HDMI or USB. As for his use of 3x or 4xSPDIF outputs, this is certainly not new. 

I am wholly in favor of anyone who puts multichannel HD to the attention of the public and I hope his demo was successful. The posting is something else.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

But HDMI is a digital output. John doesn't specify coax or optical either, just digital.

John wasn't writing this article just to show a different way of getting high resolution off a Bluray disc, he is writing that there are no Bluray players that have the capabilities. He mentions the same for earlier high resolution formats (i.e. DVD-A, and SACD).


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

gdstupak said:


> But HDMI is a digital output. John doesn't specify coax or optical either, just digital.
> 
> John wasn't writing this article just to show a different way of getting high resolution off a Bluray disc, he is writing that there are no Bluray players that have the capabilities. He mentions the same for earlier high resolution formats (i.e. DVD-A, and SACD).


Run this by me again, please. How is HDMI "dumbed down?" No BluRay players that have exactly what features?


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

It's all in my original post which is taken from the article, and the article is provided. 
Again, here are a few quotes....

"Blu-ray players are prohibited from having high-resolution digital outputs. Users are forced to listen to the high-resolution tracks through the D/A converters that are built into the disk player."

"An examination of the digital outputs on DVD and Blu-ray players will show that the digital outputs are dumbed down to sample rates of 44.1 or 48 kHz at a bit-depth of 16 bits. These digital outputs are also limited to 2 channel PCM or lossy compressed 5.1 formats. No high-resolution audio is available at the digital outputs on any currently-available player!"

John never specifically writes that "HDMI connections are dumbed-down," he just uses the generic term of "digital outputs are dumbed down" which include the HDMI.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I always understood that I was getting the original Bluray disc high resolution soundtrack through the Bluray player's HDMI output, as Tony mentioned earlier.
Then today I read this article that says that all digital outputs are dumbed down, so the only way to get the high resolution is to output through the Bluray player's analog RCA connections which uses the Bluray player's DAC.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

gdstupak: I am going to go out on a limb here and put it to you bluntly, the article you are referring to is wrong. Kal and Tony know the technology as well as anyone, they have answer the question as clearly as they can. We cannot say why the author of the article would say what he said. Perhaps it was just poorly worded. but it is simply not correct.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

gdstupak said:


> It's all in my original post which is taken from the article, and the article is provided.
> Again, here are a few quotes....
> 
> "Blu-ray players are prohibited from having high-resolution digital outputs. Users are forced to listen to the high-resolution tracks through the D/A converters that are built into the disk player."
> ...


Yes and, since he paints with too broad a brush, he permits you to make an incorrect interpretation.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Thanks for the confirmation. That's all I needed.
Well, that's not all I needed, I need to know why he wrote that. It really irks me, but I'll drop it since I guess no one knows but him.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

gdstupak said:


> Thanks for the confirmation. That's all I needed.
> Well, that's not all I needed, I need to know why he wrote that. It really irks me, but I'll drop it since I guess no one knows but him.


He is a smart man and holds some strong convictions but this is a piece of fluff to stoke interest in the demonstration. As I said before, I commend him for doing HD/MCH because so few are willing to do it.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

just my 2 cents worth / +1 for 7.1 analog use as is sounds more open and natural than my hdmi connection...
And since Jriver is displaying the output as 8 channel 192khz/24 bit - Im very confident that Im getting high resolution audio ...


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