# First measurments, now what?



## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

Hello people,
I think I set up REW correctly iwth an uncaliberated ECM8000 and a tascam interface.

I just ran my first set of measurements - which I attach.

















What do you see here? How shoudl I progress? did I even do these correctly?

The HT system is 5 B&W M-1 satellites and a B&W ASW610 sub - connected to a Yamaha VX673 AVR.
The room shape is not ideal and the wife and kids made speaker placement even worse... :gulp:

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Many thanks!


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Measurement looks valid, though you don't mention which speaker was playing when you made it. Worth measuring speakers individually and the sub on its own to get a feel for whether the crossover setting is right, and if you have any leeway in placing the speakers or sub or your listening position try measuring those alternatives and see whether things look any better.


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

Thanks mate,
I measure my usual museic listenint setup ('Straight' setting on the Yammaha VX673) basiclly 2.1.

I don't have much leeway with placement of the sub or indeed speakers, there are two otehr locations I can try for the sub.
Basically my problem is that gap at 100hz, I tried playing with the cross over but the sub won't go above it and the satellites won't go bellow 100Hz... These ar egodo speakers so I'm thinking it much be the room...

I have a bit of a wierd room shape as the listenign position is bacisally against the walla nd teh side surround speakers re paralell to teh wall, not slightly behind the listenign position... 

Maybe I'll upload a diagram of the room, this is why I went into REW in the first place, to try and sort this out. Perhpas I should analyze the waterfall view, I'm startign to think it will be more helpful.

Lastly, I'm not sure if there is much I can do with teh Amplifier built in para EQ, it only has 7 bands and they are a bit crude...

What do you guys think?

Thanks


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## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

What sub and speakers are you using?

That dip at 100hz _should _be able to be fixed by crossover settings or sub placement.

Having your MLP (Main Listening Position) against a wall is always a bad idea for accoustics, especially bass.

The waterfall will help you diagnose decay time issues, you should focus on getting your frequency response as flat as possible first.

You should be using the YPAO auto EQ on your Yamaha, not the graphic EQ. I could be wrong, but I believe if you engage the graphic EQ, you are bypassing all the work you did setting up the YPAO auto EQ.

However, you should first try to get your frequency response as flat as possible with speaker/sub/MLP placement first with all auto EQ turned off in your receiver. Then run the auto EQ program and take more measurements to see where it helped or not.


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

The Yeti said:


> What sub and speakers are you using?
> 
> That dip at 100hz _should _be able to be fixed by crossover settings or sub placement.
> 
> ...


Thanks Mate,
I have 5 sattelite B&W M-1 speakers and a B&W ASW610 Sub.

I havn't been able to address that 100hz deep with the cross over yet, the room posiiton is less than ideal but There's not much I can do about it.

I'm now trying to flatten those curves via the paraEQ because I ran the YAPO (AVR) auto setup and the result is not very good, I normally listen with the para EQ at 'through' (i.e. not engaged). I did set all the distanbces and balanced the system volume wise.


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## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Yeah, unfortunately, most of us are limited in options for sub placement due to room layout and/or WAF. All you can do is the best you can with what you got.

Multiple subs will help smooth out room modes and frequency response across a wider area. Are dual subs in your future?


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

The Yeti said:


> Yeah, unfortunately, most of us are limited in options for sub placement due to room layout and/or WAF. All you can do is the best you can with what you got.
> 
> Multiple subs will help smooth out room modes and frequency response across a wider area. Are dual subs in your future?


Nope, 
Not with the current wife... ;-)

but I think that if I do teh EQ well for each speaker and then the waterfall analysis I hope I can get it sounding even better. It sounds good now but I know it can sound even better...


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

BloomBloom said:


> Nope,
> Not with the current wife... ;-)
> 
> but I think that if I do teh EQ well for each speaker and then the waterfall analysis I hope I can get it sounding even better. It sounds good now but I know it can sound even better...



Here is a proper diagram of the room including the current and optional sub positions - I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I can improve the sound.

As you will notice the rear speakers are in an awekward position, RL is facing the listening position and is parallel to the wall, while RR is pointing diagonally into the room - I intend to install a small shelf and get it pointing like RL - at the listening position and parallel to the wall.

Please share your thoughts,

Thanks!!


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## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

I would recommend the sub position that is right next to your listening position. Due to your small-ish sub you would definitely benefit from near-field placement.


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

The Yeti said:


> I would recommend the sub position that is right next to your listening position. Due to your small-ish sub you would definitely benefit from near-field placement.


Smallish? ;-)
it's a 10" B&W...


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

BloomBloom said:


> Smallish? ;-)
> it's a 10" B&W...


You probaly find he meant for the size of the room.

Have you tried moving the listenening location away from the back wall?


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

Phillips said:


> You probaly find he meant for the size of the room.
> 
> Have you tried moving the listenening location away from the back wall?


Thanks,
Sadly the listenign position (and the room's general layout) isn't negotiable... SWMBO...

I'll try and improve what I got - This is why I started with REW, hopefully I can further improve and caliberate my system


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## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Sorry to be the one to break it to you....but yes, your sub is quite "small-ish". :yes:


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

The Yeti said:


> Sorry to be the one to break it to you....but yes, your sub is quite "small-ish". :yes:


I think its the depth that counts... :sneeky:


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

Any other ideas on how I can improve the curve and make it smoother? 
Assuming I can't move the speakers of the listening position, can I use the paraEQ to try and address the curve? if so, how?

Thanks!


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

BloomBloom said:


> I think its the depth that counts... :sneeky:



Depth is a part of it, but you have to make the most of what you have if you aren't going to purchaase another sub.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

BloomBloom said:


> Any other ideas on how I can improve the curve and make it smoother?
> Assuming I can't move the speakers of the listening position, can I use the paraEQ to try and address the curve? if so, how?
> 
> Thanks!


Depending on the Yamaha Eq system, PEQ vs GEQ.

For starters the listening position is in the worst position, bass nulls and peaks. I had this and the bass was bad. 

Utilize the best positions of everything, i know you don't have many options at all.

Try different crossover settings, phase if this is available.

Again if you can't move anything other than the sub, find the best position for the sub with REW and assuming the Yamaha has a manual PEQ use the measurments you get from REW and enter manually the filters. I am not sure if 
If the PEQ is auto only try different settings eg Flat etc.

Also if you can't use bass traps the only option is PEQ. Maybe purchase a outboard PEQ.

I have the Yamaha Z9 and find the auto PEQ abosolutely hopeless. I have used the GEQ because the results were by far the best, don't know why.


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## BloomBloom (Feb 15, 2013)

BloomBloom said:


> Here is a proper diagram of the room including the current and optional sub positions - I'd love to hear your thoughts on how I can improve the sound.
> 
> As you will notice the rear speakers are in an awekward position, RL is facing the listening position and is parallel to the wall, while RR is pointing diagonally into the room - I intend to install a small shelf and get it pointing like RL - at the listening position and parallel to the wall.
> 
> ...


Hello people,
Turns out we have to rebuild the back wall which is an opportunity to install one or two in wall speakers to create a 6.1 or 7.1 set up. My question is; considering my layout (above) and the fact the sofa will be maybe 10cm from the back wall and speakers (we move it forward for watching films) and the proximity of my side surround speakers.... is it worth it? Will I notice the difference?

Many thanks!


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

> Hello people,
> Turns out we have to rebuild the back wall which is an opportunity to install one or two in wall speakers to create a 6.1 or 7.1 set up.


Personally i don't like in wall speakers for the reason that you can't shift them to get the best result + if the wife wants to at any stage change the room around guess what + also dependant on make for quality. 
Also by adding more speakers when you haven't the ones youn have setup by adding more (inwall) you are making it more complicated, you should look at them later. 



> My question is; considering my layout (above) and the fact the sofa will be maybe 10cm from the back wall and speakers (we move it forward for watching films) and the proximity of my side surround speakers.... is it worth it? Will I notice the difference?


Generally speaking 10cm from the back wall probaly won't make that much difference.

Best thing to do is use the RTA in REW to find the best listening/speaker/sub placement.


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