# Do all receivers sound the same?



## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Hello, I currently own the Onkyo 805 receiver and I recently bought the Pioneer SC95 receiver. I want to know if you can actually hear a difference between receivers? I am not speaking of the new sound formats just simply based on the amp and DAC for example. I know when I receive it I will find out if I can actually hear a difference but I wanted the opinions of others here based on their experience.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

With different flavors of room correction there will be differences as to how it sounds also if your receivers amp section is not string enough and goes into distortion sound will be affected. As far as the 805 amp section is concerned there are few receivers out there that can touch it.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> With different flavors of room correction there will be differences as to how it sounds also if your receivers amp section is not string enough and goes into distortion sound will be affected. As far as the 805 amp section is concerned there are few receivers out there that can touch it.


Thank you Tony. Now how is the amp section on the Pioneer SC95? How can I find out about the amp other than the wattage specs? Is MCACC Pro pretty good?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well the Pioneer has a class D amp section so its hard to say but I would think its up to the task of driving most speakers. MCACC is decent, some like it some dont. Try it and see is about all I can say.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I have heard differences between receiver's, most audible in voicing.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Tonto said:


> I have heard differences between receiver's, most audible in voicing.


Can this be because of better DAC's?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

no, not likely. Again its more likely to be Room EQ or some other processing.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Agreed, because I've heard cheaper receivers voice better. They were not side by side, so you have to allow for room differences as well as speaker differences.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

asere said:


> Can this be because of better DAC's?


 I'm going to say it absolutely can be because of better DAC's. My Marantz makes lowly MP3 music sound great. Whereas with the Onkyo certain MP3's were almost unlistenable.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

JBrax said:


> I'm going to say it absolutely can be because of better DAC's. My Marantz makes lowly MP3 music sound great. Whereas with the Onkyo certain MP3's were almost unlistenable.


But were you using direct USB with your old 809 (cant recall if it had that)? or optical. If your 809 was using an analog connection for the mp3 player you were using the players internal DAC. Receivers DACs are much better.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> But were you using direct USB with your old 809 (cant recall if it had that)? If your 809 was using an analog connection for the mp3 player you were using the players internal DAC. Receivers DACs are much better.


 No, both have been wireless when I play MP3's.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

IDK I am tempted to keep the SC95. It looks like a beefy receiver with Dual Sabre DAC compared to my Onkyo 805 older Bur Brown one. It arrives tomorrow.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

asere said:


> IDK I am tempted to keep the SC95. It looks like a beefy receiver with Dual Sabre DAC compared to my Onkyo 805 older Bur Brown one. It arrives tomorrow.


 I don't think you'll hear any difference in regards to the amplification. Room correction and DAC's are a different story. I say get it dialed in and decide for yourself.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

JBrax said:


> I don't think you'll hear any difference in regards to the amplification. Room correction and DAC's are a different story. I say get it dialed in and decide for yourself.


Yeah, for some reason I do not like the Audyssey XT that is on the 805 because it tames the subs too much perhaps because of the flatter response but somehow I don't like that it does that. I could also be puck mic that the 805 came with that is causing that in my room.

Do you guys know if MCACC flattens the sub response as much as Audyssey?


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Sorry, I don't know much about MCACC. I've helped a friend get a Pioneer setup but this was some time ago. The thing that stood out to me was the user interface while setting it up. It was a pain in the you know what because the setup menu wouldn't show on the tv over HDMI. Maybe they've changed that by now.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

JBrax said:


> Sorry, I don't know much about MCACC. I've helped a friend get a Pioneer setup but this was some time ago. The thing that stood out to me was the user interface while setting it up. It was a pain in the you know what because the setup menu wouldn't show on the tv over HDMI. Maybe they've changed that by now.


No worries, I will tinker with it and see how it goes.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

asere said:


> Yeah, for some reason I do not like the Audyssey XT that is on the 805 because it tames the subs too much perhaps because of the flatter response but somehow I don't like that it does that. I could also be puck mic that the 805 came with that is causing that in my room. Do you guys know if MCACC flattens the sub response as much as Audyssey?


I'd have to dig on this... But I don't think MCACC has as many points of correction in the sub frequency (as Audyssey). As for its effect on your sub in your room, that's an unknown that you'll have to discover ;-). Remember, placement first then EQ... Dial your sub in using that order (which, I know you know).

I think you'll be very pleased with MCACC Pro. MCACC is a solid, well developed, suite. If you feel like you want more control in the sub range, you can certainly look to REW used in concert with a Berhinger Feedback Destroyer or a miniDSP. 

As for overall sound... That's a hot button topic! ;-). I think, for some of the reasons listed, you can certainly hear a difference among AVRs. The Class D amp used by Pioneer was considered to be a little thin sounding years ago... But your amp has a generation-three Amp design... I've heard nothing but good things about its performance. I would be shocked if you run set-up and finding anything short of great sound. And, as a plus, it will run extremely cool.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

JBrax said:


> I don't think you'll hear any difference in regards to the amplification. Room correction and DAC's are a different story. I say get it dialed in and decide for yourself.


Agree, plus try and do a blind test. New stuff always sounds better (in your head).


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Receivers do not all sound alike and yes, the built in dac's can and usually do make a substantial difference.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Todd Anderson said:


> I'd have to dig on this... But I don't think MCACC has as many points of correction in the sub frequency (as Audyssey). As for its effect on your sub in your room, that's an unknown that you'll have to discover ;-). Remember, placement first then EQ... Dial your sub in using that order (which, I know you know).
> 
> I think you'll be very pleased with MCACC Pro. MCACC is a solid, well developed, suite. If you feel like you want more control in the sub range, you can certainly look to REW used in concert with a Berhinger Feedback Destroyer or a miniDSP.
> 
> As for overall sound... That's a hot button topic! ;-). I think, for some of the reasons listed, you can certainly hear a difference among AVRs. The Class D amp used by Pioneer was considered to be a little thin sounding years ago... But your amp has a generation-three Amp design... I've heard nothing but good things about its performance. I would be shocked if you run set-up and finding anything short of great sound. And, as a plus, it will run extremely cool.


Thanks I'll have some fun with the Pioneer plus I have 15 day return window in case I don't like it. Also the Pioneer has auto phase control that analyses the phase in real time in the background every 30 seconds. If that's even important. 


Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## eyespy39 (Aug 23, 2013)

asere said:


> Thanks I'll have some fun with the Pioneer plus I have 15 day return window in case I don't like it. Also the Pioneer has auto phase control that analyses the phase in real time in the background every 30 seconds. If that's even important.
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


I replaced my prior Denon AVR 4311 with a Pioneer SC-LX89 which is the european counterpart of the Elite-99. I did not change anything else. But I experienced quite an improvement in sound! Even though MCACC Pro does its measurements only for one sweet spot instead of Audyssey's 8 measured points in the sweet "field". Sure, the Denon is 6 years older in terms of development. Still, I find the MCACC concept, esp. phase control and group delay control and the like, quite convincing. And I like to think that this is one of the main reasons for the improved sound (the room is not too big and I always listen at moderate levels, so power was and is no issue, and both AVR's are promoted as trying to be as true to the signal as possible).
So I wish you a lot of fun and great sound :smile:


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## J&D (Apr 11, 2008)

In my experience whatever cost you the most always sounds best. At least on first listen anyway.  Actually I am just kidding. For some reason I have always preferred the sound of my Yamaha AVR's and have not preferred the sound of Onkyo as much. In my experience and for my preference of the brands I have had in my home over the years the order is - Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo. But as I stated its a preference and not a scientific determination of which sounds best.

Bottom line is all modern AVR's are pretty good for the money and it may actually boil down to specific features/options and budget that determines what anyone actually buys and considers the best option for them.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Ok, so I set up the Pioneer SC 95 with MCACC PRO calibration and to my ears and room it sounds like my Onkyo 805. 
The only difference is the DSU on the Pioneer.
Idk, the Pioneer has dual sabre 32 DAC and yet not much difference in sound. 
I think it all boils down to features. 
I'm not sure I'm ready to give up on the 805 just yet.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

asere said:


> Ok, so I set up the Pioneer SC 95 with MCACC PRO calibration and to my ears and room it sounds like my Onkyo 805. The only difference is the DSU on the Pioneer. Idk, the Pioneer has dual sabre 32 DAC and yet not much difference in sound. I think it all boils down to features. I'm not sure I'm ready to give up on the 805 just yet. Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


 That was also my conclusion for the most part. The only differences I found was with music and dual sub integration. Music sounds much better with my Marantz. Especially lower quality stuff such as MP3's. I also think XT32 does a much better job with my subs. Movies are pretty much the same without enabling DSU/Neural:X. Now if you include Atmos and the upmixing into the picture it's no contest. At the end of the day the upgrade was very much worth it.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

JBrax said:


> That was also my conclusion for the most part. The only differences I found was with music and dual sub integration. Music sounds much better with my Marantz. Especially lower quality stuff such as MP3's. I also think XT32 does a much better job with my subs. Movies are pretty much the same without enabling DSU/Neural:X. Now if you include Atmos and the upmixing into the picture it's no contest. At the end of the day the upgrade was very much worth it.


Yeah my 805 to me sounds more dynamic or about the same as Pioneer 95 but like you said one you engage dsu or Atmos the front speakers seem to disappear and you are more in a sound realm. You don't necessary know we're it's coming from but it's there.
Turn Atmos off and the fronts reappear.
Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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