# Will the screen size of 10 inches make a difference?



## Osage_Winter

We're thinking now that the space in our HT room designated for the display can _maybe_ squeeze a 60" HDTV depending on whether or not the sides can come out a bit and clear the cabinet doors to the left and right (the right side cabinet holds our AVR and BD player). 

Unfortunately, our seating distance absolutely cannot change -- it must remain at 12 feet or so from the display to the main viewing area (basically my spot).  The wife has been liking the looks of the Panasonic plasmas at 60 inches, while I think I'd prefer an LCD set (actually, what I would prefer, between you and I and the man on the moon, is any one of the 72, 75, 80 or 92-inch DLP Mitsubishis that are out now...but that's saved for a fantasy when I make more money or win some kind of lottery) if only because of the 120/240Hz refresh features that turn film into a video look (don't ask -- I know I am in the minority on this one...).

No matter what technology we end up going with, will we see a drastic viewing difference moving from our 50" Sony SXRD RPTV to a 60" screen? Keep in mind our viewing distance absolutely cannot be changed; will we see at least _some_ dramatic differences going up 10 inches in size?


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## lcaillo

IME, yes, it will make a significant difference.


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## Guest

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

A larger screen will always enhance the viewing experience. Go as big as you can, you won't regret it.


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



lcaillo said:


> IME, yes, it will make a significant difference.


Thank you very much, Leonard, for your opinion and input. :T

Do you believe things will begin to look a bit more "theatrical" in presentation -- that is, a bit more immersive -- with the 60 when viewing film on DVD/BD? I realize we're still not anywhere near correct, ideal seating distance from these sizes, but...

Also keep in mind that we do watch film in darkened conditions, with just a very dim night light built into our fancy torch light that sits to the left of the left main channel...


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



> A larger screen will always enhance the viewing experience. Go as big as you can, you won't regret it.


Thank you.

Of course I would never regret or second guess a larger screen in any circumstance; I just kind of wanted to know if there should be a significant presentation difference, visually, jumping from the 50 to a 60 inch...if we'd notice it at our seating distance of 12 feet.


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## eugovector

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

A 60" screen at 12' will fill the same field of vision as your 50" screen at 10'. Move your chair up 2 feet, temporarily, and see what you think.


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



eugovector said:


> A 60" screen at 12' will fill the same field of vision as your 50" screen at 10'. Move your chair up 2 feet, temporarily, and see what you think.


Interesting analysis, 'vector, thanks.

I will do that experiment when I can.

But do you feel, just speaking plainly without the benefit of results from this test, the way others do here based on their replies that the 60 inch screen should make a discernable visual difference if you had to guess?


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## lcaillo

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> Thank you very much, Leonard, for your opinion and input. :T
> 
> Do you believe things will begin to look a bit more "theatrical" in presentation -- that is, a bit more immersive -- with the 60 when viewing film on DVD/BD? I realize we're still not anywhere near correct, ideal seating distance from these sizes, but...
> 
> Also keep in mind that we do watch film in darkened conditions, with just a very dim night light built into our fancy torch light that sits to the left of the left main channel...


Yes. IME, at the distances you are describing, the change will be significant. This is, however, a personal opinion, and what is meaningful to you may vary greatly. 

You will want to calibrate the set properly and you may want to consider backlighing if the room is very dark.


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



lcaillo said:


> Yes. IME, at the distances you are describing, the change will be significant. This is, however, a personal opinion, and what is meaningful to you may vary greatly.


I understand. However, if a calibrator and videophile such as yourself says it will yield a significant change, I would take his or her word for it.  



> You will want to calibrate the set properly and you may want to consider backlighing if the room is very dark.


Of course I would calibrate; I would run the set through the proper setup discs I use, including the Spears & Munsil Blu-ray. As for backlighting, well, as I explained in a different post, we keep the room very dark for cinema viewing, but do keep a very dim "night light" on which is built into the torch lamp that's off to the side of the left front channel speaker. This casts a very subtle glow which makes the room a step above "pitch black," but it certainly is still dark in there.

When you say "backlighting," are you referring to mere ambient light like I'm describing, or actual backlighting behind the screen, which is supposed to help with eye fatigue, etc?


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## eugovector

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> Interesting analysis, 'vector, thanks.
> 
> I will do that experiment when I can.
> 
> But do you feel, just speaking plainly without the benefit of results from this test, the way others do here based on their replies that the 60 inch screen should make a discernable visual difference if you had to guess?


You will be able to discern the difference, but as to whether or not it will be significant to you is entirely subjective. If you move to 10 feet, this is exactly what a 60" screen will look like from 12" (in the same way that magazine held directly in front of your fact will fill more of your field of vision than your current 50" screen.

I currently have a 50" screen and sit 12 feet away typically. My next jump will be a 92" screen because, for me, 60" would be discernible, but not significant enough. If 60" is the biggest you can go, and you can't change your seating location, then there's not a lot else you can do beyond that.


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



eugovector said:


> You will be able to discern the difference, but as to whether or not it will be significant to you is entirely subjective.


I see; seems to be the standpoint Leonard has as well...



> I currently have a 50" screen and sit 12 feet away typically. My next jump will be a 92" screen because, for me, 60" would be discernible, but not significant enough. If 60" is the biggest you can go, and you can't change your seating location, then there's not a lot else you can do beyond that.


Do you have any pics of your setup? What kind of 50 do you have -- plasma, LCD, RP? Also, you are at the exact distance I am from my 50 -- how have you been with it thus far? I know you said that 60 wouldn't be significant enough for you at this distance, but how has the 50" been in terms of viewing film? Have you been at least okay with it?

Indeed, I absolutely cannot change the seating position for this room -- the idea of "scooting up a chair much closer to the screen" when using this room as our HT viewing area so that my 50" screen seems larger just doesn't appeal to me (this has been suggested before) as I can't imagine bringing a dining room chair in and placing it where I want to sit in front of the screen. Further, this would throw the whole audio calibration part of my system completely out of whack. 

Additionally, the entertainment center that holds the screen and A/V gear can _maybe_ squeeze a 60" in, as I said in the first post of this thread -- and that would really be pushing it. It would have to be, say, one of the new Samsung LCDs that have the very small trim bezels, the ones that look like there's no trim around the screen at all...and even so, the screen would have to stick out a bit from the wall unit to accommodate its size. We're not in a position to get a new entertainment center of any kind for a massive screen (say, one of the Mitsubishi DLPs that come in the 70, 80 and 90 inch screen sizes) right now, so this one must work for us.


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## mojojojo

We went from a 46 to a 55, so 9 inches and it definitely made a difference with no change in seating position. Actually, the tv went back some 18 inchs as we switched from a rear projection to a plasma. 



eugovector said:


> A 60" screen at 12' will fill the same field of vision as your 50" screen at 10'. Move your chair up 2 feet, temporarily, and see what you think.


That's an interesting way to test it out.


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## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



mojojojo said:


> We went from a 46 to a 55, so 9 inches and it definitely made a difference with no change in seating position. Actually, the tv went back some 18 inchs as we switched from a rear projection to a plasma.
> 
> That's an interesting way to test it out.


That's my current issue... I have a 65" CRT-based RPTV, and while I would like to upgrade to a flat panel (except for perhaps the new Sharp Elites, there are questions as to whether any flat panel would truly be an "upgrade"), that would move the set almost 2' farther back from the viewing position. I really need a fairly significant boost in size to have an upgrade actually "upgrade" my size, as well. Even those gorgeous 70" Sharp Elites would look smaller, under the circumstances! There's the new 80" Sharp, but it's not an Elite, and would be a step backwards in quality, as such. I guess I'll have to wait for an 80" Elite... and a winning lottery ticket!


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## eugovector

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> Do you have any pics of your setup? What kind of 50 do you have -- plasma, LCD, RP? Also, you are at the exact distance I am from my 50 -- how have you been with it thus far? I know you said that 60 wouldn't be significant enough for you at this distance, but how has the 50" been in terms of viewing film? Have you been at least okay with it?


There will be a video shortly as I talk about my new SVS PB12-NSD, but the 92" projection setup is still very much in the planning phase. I'd say 1 year away.

So, I went from a 51" RPTV to a 50" plasma. We had previously been sitting about 6' away per the 1.5x the screen diagonal guideline (this is loosely spec'd to NTSC and THX guidelines). Upon moving to our new house, we sat at this same distance for a while, then moved to 8', then moved to 12" to open the room up and accommodate guests.

How've I been with it? I like having more space to move, but I miss the immersive experience of a theater-like screen size to seating distance ratio. If it wasn't such a change in distance, I would probably position/calibrate my system for 6' and move the couch up when doing serious viewing. However, we've been entertaining for work and pleasure more, so we need the sq ft more than we need a theater-like experience. I can't wait until a 92" screen gives us the best of both worlds.

So yeah, I'm okay with it, but I miss the old days.


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



mojojojo said:


> We went from a 46 to a 55, so 9 inches and it definitely made a difference with no change in seating position. Actually, the tv went back some 18 inchs as we switched from a rear projection to a plasma.


Thanks Mojo; appreciate the input.

So you would feel by staying at the same distance for us -- which would be 12 feet -- the 10 inch jump to a 60" would be significant? Do you think film watching -- particularly scope presentations at 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 with heavy letterboxing -- would seem more immersive at 12 feet with a 60 incher?

How far are you from your plasma now? Do you have any pics of your room and setup?


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> That's my current issue... I have a 65" CRT-based RPTV


Wow...I'd _love_ to run a 65 inch screen in our room...:spend: :yikes:



> and while I would like to upgrade to a flat panel (except for perhaps the new Sharp Elites, there are questions as to whether any flat panel would truly be an "upgrade")


Why do you feel this way? Do you mean you don't understand why going from a rear pro like yours to a flat panel would be "upgrading"? 

I feel the same way, kinda...like my Sony SXRD rear pro is fine, as we don't hang our displays on walls, and don't need the "foxy" allure of a flat screen, but we have outgrown the 50" size...and so I wonder what the "upgrade" to a flat screen really is...

Here's the thing though -- only Mitsubishi from what I understand is making the really huge TV screens, like the 70-inch-up-to-92-inch DLPs they sell now...so, to get a screen under these sizes you gotta go LCD or plasma, and these are the "flat" displays. However -- you mention the huge Sharp sizes below, so let me address that...lddude:



> that would move the set almost 2' farther back from the viewing position. I really need a fairly significant boost in size to have an upgrade actually "upgrade" my size, as well.


That's what I'm thinking for our room, too -- and hence why I began this thread. I'm worried that the 60 inch screen won't seem that dramatic of an increase in size based on how far we sit from the screen area, even though it is indeed 10 inches more than what we have now...if you look at official distance vs. resolution charts that everyone throws around in other forums, you would need like a 110-inch-plus screen in front of you at a distance of 12 feet in order to fully see the benefits of 1080p...that's ridiculous to me. There's no way we could afford or make fit a screen that large in our room, yet we would be lead to believe that _at least_ a 90-inch screen needs to be installed for a distance of 12 feet. Sure -- if you want to stick with TV displays, Mitsubishi makes those aforementioned DLP models and if you want you could go with front projection on a screen as huge as you want...but what about those of us who can't do either of these things? At 12 feet there's _no_ screen that we could utilize that would make us feel better immersed in a film while resolving and enjoying the detail that comes with 1080p? :scratch: :rubeyes: :huh:



> Even those gorgeous 70" Sharp Elites would look smaller, under the circumstances! There's the new 80" Sharp, but it's not an Elite, and would be a step backwards in quality, as such. I guess I'll have to wait for an 80" Elite... and a winning lottery ticket!


I hear you on the lottery ticket -- as I said, I'd snatch up one of those 92 inch Mitsubishis if I won a lottery in a heartbeat and _find_ a way to make it work in a room! :heehee: :yikes: 

But I didn't know Sharp actually made screens as large as 80 inches -- wow. How much are their TVs in these huge sizes?


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



eugovector said:


> There will be a video shortly as I talk about my new SVS PB12-NSD, but the 92" projection setup is still very much in the planning phase. I'd say 1 year away.


I meant do you have any still images as of right now depicting your 50" display...? 

Being an owner of a 50" screen myself, I'd just be curious to see how you set everything up...



> So, I went from a 51" RPTV to a 50" plasma. We had previously been sitting about 6' away per the 1.5x the screen diagonal guideline (this is loosely spec'd to NTSC and THX guidelines). Upon moving to our new house, we sat at this same distance for a while, then moved to 8', then moved to 12" to open the room up and accommodate guests.


Why the drop to one inch less -- were you having issues with your RPTV? 



> How've I been with it? I like having more space to move, but I miss the immersive experience of a theater-like screen size to seating distance ratio. If it wasn't such a change in distance, I would probably position/calibrate my system for 6' and move the couch up when doing serious viewing. However, we've been entertaining for work and pleasure more, so we need the sq ft more than we need a theater-like experience. I can't wait until a 92" screen gives us the best of both worlds.
> 
> So yeah, I'm okay with it, but I miss the old days.


I understand; but when you watch films on the 50", can you still get "somewhat immersed" with this display? If you dim the lighting in the room, do widescreen films seem a bit immersive and theatrical?


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## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> Why do you feel this way? Do you mean you don't understand why going from a rear pro like yours to a flat panel would be "upgrading"?
> 
> I feel the same way, kinda...like my Sony SXRD rear pro is fine, as we don't hang our displays on walls, and don't need the "foxy" allure of a flat screen, but we have outgrown the 50" size...and so I wonder what the "upgrade" to a flat screen really is...
> 
> Here's the thing though -- only Mitsubishi from what I understand is making the really huge TV screens, like the 70-inch-up-to-92-inch DLPs they sell now...so, to get a screen under these sizes you gotta go LCD or plasma, and these are the "flat" displays. However -- you mention the huge Sharp sizes below, so let me address that...lddude:
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I'm thinking for our room, too -- and hence why I began this thread. I'm worried that the 60 inch screen won't seem that dramatic of an increase in size based on how far we sit from the screen area, even though it is indeed 10 inches more than what we have now...if you look at official distance vs. resolution charts that everyone throws around in other forums, you would need like a 110-inch-plus screen in front of you at a distance of 12 feet in order to fully see the benefits of 1080p...that's ridiculous to me. There's no way we could afford or make fit a screen that large in our room, yet we would be lead to believe that _at least_ a 90-inch screen needs to be installed for a distance of 12 feet. Sure -- if you want to stick with TV displays, Mitsubishi makes those aforementioned DLP models and if you want you could go with front projection on a screen as huge as you want...but what about those of us who can't do either of these things? At 12 feet there's _no_ screen that we could utilize that would make us feel better immersed in a film while resolving and enjoying the detail that comes with 1080p? :scratch: :rubeyes: :huh:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you on the lottery ticket -- as I said, I'd snatch up one of those 92 inch Mitsubishis if I won a lottery in a heartbeat and _find_ a way to make it work in a room! :heehee: :yikes:
> 
> But I didn't know Sharp actually made screens as large as 80 inches -- wow. How much are their TVs in these huge sizes?


Sharp's biggest LCD HDTVs get even bigger with a new 80-inch model:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/27/sharps-biggest-lcd-hdtvs-get-even-bigger-with-a-new-80-inch-mod/

The 80" Sharp will be $5,499 (MSRP) when it starts shipping in early October. Preorders are already popping up for sub-$5k prices, I've read.

BUT, it's not an Elite... this model (LC-80LE632U) is actually an even lower-end panel than their 70" 732 model (the 735 is better, and the Elites are better still).

Flat panel TVs are just plain dead appealing. I WANT one. I LOVE the look of one on a wall. The PQ of a still looks absolutely fantastic (different when things move, more on that below). My wife would be _thrilled_ to get that much more open air in our living room. (You still need a long piece of furniture underneath to hold the components and center channel, but you still get back a decent chunk of air and the room looks more open.)

But here's the deal: NOTHING can beat CRT in terms of overall PQ, IMO (and that of many others). The best of the Plasmas brag about black levels that are "like CRT". Plasmas have good motion, too, and good color (once calibrated) but they don't have a huge amount of brightness. Burn-in of static images and screen elements CAN be an issue (less with newer models, but it still has to be at least somewhat in your mind) Quite good off-axis viewing. LCD, by comparison, tend to have LOUSY black levels (one exception: the new Sharp Elites), and frankly they SUCK at motion. But they do well in lit environments. Color quality is a mixed bag, some do better than others. Off-axis viewing is often an issue. DLP-based sets can get huge, but they have their own share of issues. Black levels aren't as good as CRT. DLP motion is better than Plasma, but not always perfectly natural-looking. Color management can be an issue. Bulbs have to be replaced regularly. 

Each competing technology has issues, and each compares itself to CRT as the reference standard. A well-calibrated CRT will have PERFECT color. It will have PERFECT motion. It will have PERFECT black levels. It outputs enough light to do fine in well-lit rooms (reflections can sometimes be an issue, but that can happen with other tech, too).

CRT's, however, are BIG (the cabinets, not just the screen... tho the screen can be found (used, at this point) in 65" easily, and 73" if you get a little lucky). And they top out at 1080i: they can't do 1080p. I can live with big, but it's not appealing. And because they're old, they usually don't have HDMI, mandating Component connections as the best option, and needing special converters to deal with HDMI. Burn-in can be an issue if you're careless. (Although my set is over 10 years old and has no burn-in, tho I do take care to make sure it remains this way.) CRT is not without issues, but as long as you have enough space, by most metrics that matter most to a true videophile, CRT is still king. (possible exceptions to be made for the Plasma Pioneer Elite Kuro sets, but they don't get as big as CRT and are nearly impossible to get... while used CRTs with another decade of life remaining can be had CHEAP on Craigslist.) But it's not appealing... until you turn off the lights and start the show.


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## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> I understand; but when you watch films on the 50", can you still get "somewhat immersed" with this display? If you dim the lighting in the room, do widescreen films seem a bit immersive and theatrical?


I can tell you this:

I have a buddy with nearly the exact same TV as me (65" RPTV). He sits about 8' from the screen (basically dead on at 1.5x screen size). I sit (sat, actually... new house I'm closer) 11' from the screen.

He wins, from an immersion standpoint, no contest.

I'm enjoying the newer, closer seating position (similar to his... unless I add 2' for a switch to flat screen!), at the moment, and am loathe to give it up.


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## eugovector

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> I meant do you have any still images as of right now depicting your 50" display...?
> 
> Being an owner of a 50" screen myself, I'd just be curious to see how you set everything up...
> 
> Why the drop to one inch less -- were you having issues with your RPTV?
> 
> I understand; but when you watch films on the 50", can you still get "somewhat immersed" with this display? If you dim the lighting in the room, do widescreen films seem a bit immersive and theatrical?


I'll try to get one taken. It's a standard wall mount setup, but I'll try to get a pic soon.

The only problem that I had with the 51" was that it didn't have HDMI, was a big as a couch, and weighed 150lbs.

Immersion = Field of vision for me. Life is widescreen, corner to corner, and that's what I try to reach with the display in my theater. For my 50" set, that's about 6', but that doesn't work with my seating. So, my answer is no, I'm not satisfied with my current setup, but you may be. It's all a matter of opinion.


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## bambino

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

I have a 52" and sit 12 ft. away and think the picture is perfect:sn:. I'd love to jump up to 60 or 70 inches but i'll save that for my dedicated room when the time and money come.:T


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## mojojojo

Osage_Winter said:


> Thanks Mojo; appreciate the input.
> 
> So you would feel by staying at the same distance for us -- which would be 12 feet -- the 10 inch jump to a 60" would be significant? Do you think film watching -- particularly scope presentations at 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 with heavy letterboxing -- would seem more immersive at 12 feet with a 60 incher?
> 
> How far are you from your plasma now? Do you have any pics of your room and setup?


I guess the key here is how much is significant varies by person to person. Do I prefer the larger screen? Oh yes! Can I tell it's a bigger more immersive screen? Yes. So can my wife. Do I feel I can go larger, yes. My wife not so much, but that's because she sits closer to the screen than I do due to our living room layout. She sits 2 feet closer than I do and if we switch seats, it's even more immersive. You should definitely try the sitting 2 feet closer trick mentioned above. 

Love watching movies. Prefer no letterboxing as I want to see/use as much as my tv as possible. 

I'm 14 feet away, and since it's a living room not a dedicated space, that's not going to change. So, yes from here it's like watching tv, not being in the movie as I can see my L R speakers; c'est la vie!


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## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> Sharp's biggest LCD HDTVs get even bigger with a new 80-inch model:
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/27/sharps-biggest-lcd-hdtvs-get-even-bigger-with-a-new-80-inch-mod/


WOW -- I think I want one...:spend::spend::spend::hissyfit:

That is gorgeous. A definite consideration for someone like me who doesn't really want to go the front projection route...



> The 80" Sharp will be $5,499 (MSRP) when it starts shipping in early October. Preorders are already popping up for sub-$5k prices, I've read.


I've already been told by the wife -- after I just showed her the link -- that I can't have one. :hissyfit::hissyfit: addle:

Seriously, though, we have been having some money issues, so I understand this concern; but she made it like "you don't need an 80-inch TV..." Ahhhh...the downfalls of married life, huh? :rolleyesno:



> BUT, it's not an Elite... this model (LC-80LE632U) is actually an even lower-end panel than their 70" 732 model (the 735 is better, and the Elites are better still).


Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaang...

So, Sharp went the whole "Elite" route like Pioneer? I wonder if Pio sued them for using the moniker...



> Flat panel TVs are just plain dead appealing. I WANT one. I LOVE the look of one on a wall. The PQ of a still looks absolutely fantastic (different when things move, more on that below). My wife would be _thrilled_ to get that much more open air in our living room. (You still need a long piece of furniture underneath to hold the components and center channel, but you still get back a decent chunk of air and the room looks more open.)


I, for one, don't care for the flat panel on-the-wall scheme; I see them in every home magazine and on every home decorating show, and I just think it's a passing fad. I don't care for the screen on the wall with the cabinet below it, like you describe, as I just feel like the room is "too empty"...but I totally understand why someone would prefer this, as you guys.

Don't get me wrong -- I don't absolutely hate the screens on the wall, or the low boy cabinets beneath them for the components, etc. I just prefer built-in cabinets or wall units/entertainment centers more. For example, our 50" Sony RPTV sits in a wall unit that is almost the exact cut out size for it, with cabinets to the left and right and a bridge shelf on top that holds our center channel. I've seen installs where big screen RPTVs like the SXRDs are installed flushed into a wall -- take a look at this guy's install on Blu-ray.com; he is running a 70-inch SXRD:

http://www.blu-ray.com/community/gallery.php?member=armcomm

That's how I like my screens to look. :T



> can beat CRT in terms of overall PQ, IMO (and that of many others). The best of the Plasmas brag about black levels that are "like CRT". Plasmas have good motion, too, and good color (once calibrated) but they don't have a huge amount of brightness. Burn-in of static images and screen elements CAN be an issue (less with newer models, but it still has to be at least somewhat in your mind) Quite good off-axis viewing. LCD, by comparison, tend to have LOUSY black levels (one exception: the new Sharp Elites), and frankly they SUCK at motion. But they do well in lit environments. Color quality is a mixed bag, some do better than others. Off-axis viewing is often an issue. DLP-based sets can get huge, but they have their own share of issues. Black levels aren't as good as CRT. DLP motion is better than Plasma, but not always perfectly natural-looking. Color management can be an issue. Bulbs have to be replaced regularly.


I was very curious about Mitsubishi's new gigantic screens that are out now -- specifically, the ones in the 70, 80 and even 90-inch arena. They're DLPs, but I don't know what kind of picture quality they display at these insane sizes. I saw them being sold on home shopping networks like HSN and QVC as well, and really wanted to demo one, but I don't know anyone who has one...

A local "Rent a Center" store near us had the 73" Mitsu DLP with 3D support, and connected via HDMI (I asked the clerk) through a PS3, the image didn't look all that bad -- kind of on the soft side, but I expected that from a rear projection model. 

What I really like about LCD -- and as I said, I know I am in a major minority here -- are these sets' refresh interpolation features, up to, what, 240Hz now? I simply like the way this feature makes film look a bit more like video (the dreaded-by-many "soap opera effect") on Blu-ray specifically. I can recall seeing two demos -- the first was when I was first shopping for my TV before the SXRD in a Sears, and they were running a Pirates of the Caribbean demo on a Sony LCD screen (Bravia, I think?)...my G-d, Johnny Depp looked like he was floating off the screen with that surreal kind of motion. I loved it and was hooked. Later on, I saw a Samsung LCD running The Dark Knight on Blu in a Circuit City before it closed, and they had this "motionflow" feature on (I realize that's a Sony-coined term) and the film looked like it was shot on video with that surreal feeling again. I happen to like that look in moderation, and feel that _that's_ what high def should look like (again -- I know I am in the minority here). 

When I got my SXRD set up, I was wondering why I couldn't get that effect like I saw in the stores -- until I learned that my set didn't have the refresh/interpolation features like the LCDs (I tried putting my set on Vivid trying to imitate this effect and everything else you can imagine). So, I'd love to get a really large LCD if I could, but it looks like 60 inches is gonna be our limit...:hissyfit:



> mpeting technology has issues, and each compares itself to CRT as the reference standard. A well-calibrated CRT will have PERFECT color. It will have PERFECT motion. It will have PERFECT black levels. It outputs enough light to do fine in well-lit rooms (reflections can sometimes be an issue, but that can happen with other tech, too).
> 
> CRT's, however, are BIG (the cabinets, not just the screen... tho the screen can be found (used, at this point) in 65" easily, and 73" if you get a little lucky). And they top out at 1080i: they can't do 1080p. I can live with big, but it's not appealing. And because they're old, they usually don't have HDMI, mandating Component connections as the best option, and needing special converters to deal with HDMI. Burn-in can be an issue if you're careless. (Although my set is over 10 years old and has no burn-in, tho I do take care to make sure it remains this way.) CRT is not without issues, but as long as you have enough space, by most metrics that matter most to a true videophile, CRT is still king. (possible exceptions to be made for the Plasma Pioneer Elite Kuro sets, but they don't get as big as CRT and are nearly impossible to get... while used CRTs with another decade of life remaining can be had CHEAP on Craigslist.) But it's not appealing... until you turn off the lights and start the show.


Oh, I know about DLP sets being huge -- my folks had a 55" Mitsubishi Diamond Series rear pro that was like a refrigerator in their living room. I have always been told that the newer microdisplay RPTVs like Sony's SXRD were the way to go for huge screens at more affordable prices compared to plasma and LCD. 

I wouldn't look for a used TV though.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> I can tell you this:
> 
> I have a buddy with nearly the exact same TV as me (65" RPTV). He sits about 8' from the screen (basically dead on at 1.5x screen size). I sit (sat, actually... new house I'm closer) 11' from the screen.
> 
> He wins, from an immersion standpoint, no contest.
> 
> I'm enjoying the newer, closer seating position (similar to his... unless I add 2' for a switch to flat screen!), at the moment, and am loathe to give it up.


That makes me :hissyfit::hissyfit::hissyfit:

So a 60 probably wouldn't be immersive at our distance...:crying:


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



eugovector said:


> I'll try to get one taken. It's a standard wall mount setup, but I'll try to get a pic soon.
> 
> The only problem that I had with the 51" was that it didn't have HDMI, was a big as a couch, and weighed 150lbs.


Oh -- it was a CRT? 

Immersion = Field of vision for me. Life is widescreen, corner to corner, and that's what I try to reach with the display in my theater.[/quote]

? What do you mean "life is widescreen"? 



> For my 50" set, that's about 6', but that doesn't work with my seating. So, my answer is no, I'm not satisfied with my current setup, but you may be. It's all a matter of opinion.


I see. Well, we're "just making do" with the 50 at our distance (when there's any kind of light reflecting on this display, forget it -- the screen instantly shrinks and I'm taken right out of the film...it's like I'm viewing a 20" portable screen :sarcastic and I was hoping that a jump 10 inches would definitely make a visual impression...:huh:


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



bambino said:


> I have a 52" and sit 12 ft. away and think the picture is perfect:sn:. I'd love to jump up to 60 or 70 inches but i'll save that for my dedicated room when the time and money come.:T


Thanks Bambino!

At least you make me feel a bit better about my 50"/12 feet situation!

I hear you about the dedicated room for the 60 or 70 -- right now, we'd like to get a 60 into the current space, but as you said, when the money comes...

But does it ever? :sarcastic: :hissyfit: :foottap:


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



mojojojo said:


> I guess the key here is how much is significant varies by person to person. Do I prefer the larger screen? Oh yes! Can I tell it's a bigger more immersive screen? Yes. So can my wife. Do I feel I can go larger, yes. My wife not so much, but that's because she sits closer to the screen than I do due to our living room layout. She sits 2 feet closer than I do and if we switch seats, it's even more immersive. You should definitely try the sitting 2 feet closer trick mentioned above.


How big is your set again?



> Love watching movies. Prefer no letterboxing as I want to see/use as much as my tv as possible.


Oh, I totally get that -- I would love every film to fill my whole screen too. The thing is, ultra wide scope transfers at 2.35:1 and 2.40:1 require the letterboxing in order for the film to be viewed correctly on a 16:9 display (1.85:1 and 1.78:1 I believe can fill a widescreen display with no letterboxing due to some sets' overscan and other elements at play like a close-to-16:9 format; films with transfers of this kind fill my SXRD's display with no letterboxing due to overscan). That's the way the filmmaker wants you to see the film -- the letterboxing allows you to view all the information from left to right in the frame. When you stretch a widescreen transfer like this to fill a screen without letterboxing, you sacrifice not only quality of the image but what the director wants you to see -- again, though, here's the catch: DVD video is "stretchable" to fill a screen when there's letterboxing present in the transfer, but Blu-ray video is not, from everything I have gathered...

For example -- the Star Trek original episodes on Blu are in their original 4:3 format (full screen) and when I watch them on my Oppo Blu-ray player feeding my SXRD display, I get "pillarboxing" to the sides of the image, so the episodes are shown in an appropriate 4:3 format. Pillarboxing is like letterboxing, only it fills the sides of a screen with black area, not the top and bottom -- but from what I can tell with my equipment, 1080p Blu-ray video is "locked" into a widescreen or fullscreen format, unable to be stretched or manipulated unless you make changes to the player's resolution output. In other words, when I try and stretch the Star Trek episodes to fill my 16:9 display with the 4:3 image, I cannot -- the same thing happens when I watch widescreen Blu-ray films shot in 2.40:1 or 2.35:1 formats -- I can't stretch the image to fill the screen without letterboxing...

I'm told that this is a limitation with regard to 1080p high definition material -- that these images cannot be manipulated or stretched. I'd love to fill my screen up every time something comes onscreen -- but then I start thinking "This isn't how the director wanted me to see this frame or scene..." and that perhaps I'm sacrificing picture quality by blowing up the image...:unbelievable::unbelievable::dumbcrazy:



> I'm 14 feet away, and since it's a living room not a dedicated space, that's not going to change. So, yes from here it's like watching tv, not being in the movie as I can see my L R speakers; c'est la vie!
> 
> 
> View attachment 32931


Thank you for sharing the pic with me -- indeed, we have the same situation...it feels like a living room and not a dedicated space, and thus it's simply like watching TV, not cinema...

I know exactly what you mean. :rolleyesno:


----------



## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> That makes me :hissyfit::hissyfit::hissyfit:
> 
> So a 60 probably wouldn't be immersive at our distance...:crying:


"Immersive" the way you get when you are 1.5x screen width distance from the screen? No.

_More immersive_ than you have now, with the smaller set? Absolutely.



Osage_Winter said:


> So, Sharp went the whole "Elite" route like Pioneer? I wonder if Pio sued them for using the moniker...


Sharp licensed the Elite moniker from Pioneer, and hired a bunch of their Kuro techs to help them develop this new line. They are direct descendents of the Pio Elite lineage, no doubt. However, IMO, due to some (not yet solved) inherent limitations in LCD tech, they don't _quite_ match the Pio Kuros, although they beat them in size, of course, and a few other measures.



Osage_Winter said:


> I, for one, don't care for the flat panel on-the-wall scheme; I see them in every home magazine and on every home decorating show, and I just think it's a passing fad. I don't care for the screen on the wall with the cabinet below it, like you describe, as I just feel like the room is "too empty"...but I totally understand why someone would prefer this, as you guys.
> 
> Don't get me wrong -- I don't absolutely hate the screens on the wall, or the low boy cabinets beneath them for the components, etc. I just prefer built-in cabinets or wall units/entertainment centers more. For example, our 50" Sony RPTV sits in a wall unit that is almost the exact cut out size for it, with cabinets to the left and right and a bridge shelf on top that holds our center channel. I've seen installs where big screen RPTVs like the SXRDs are installed flushed into a wall -- take a look at this guy's install on Blu-ray.com; he is running a 70-inch SXRD:


I just like more space to move around, and that low boy cabinet forces people farther from the screen, reducing the chance that some drunk party guest (or a child!) will damage my screen.  If I had the square footage in my house, I would LOVE to build a set... regardless of depth... into the wall so everything is flush. Very cool look, plus lots of storage. The downside to that, however, is something I've seen way too many times: It locks you into a size limit on the TV (and everything else) for future upgrades. My father-in-law LOVES good TVs, and can afford pretty much anything he wants, but the built-in entertainment center he had custom made many years ago covering the entire wall accommodates 55" MAX, so until he's ready to tear EVERYTHING out, there's no way for him to go bigger.



Osage_Winter said:


> Oh, I know about DLP sets being huge -- my folks had a 55" Mitsubishi Diamond Series rear pro that was like a refrigerator in their living room. I have always been told that the newer microdisplay RPTVs like Sony's SXRD were the way to go for huge screens at more affordable prices compared to plasma and LCD.


DLP sets are _*tiny*_ compared to CRT of similar size. The only difference between DLP size and LCD/Plasma size, however, is depth. You can have a 65" Plasma or LCD set that's a mere 2-3" thick, but a 65" DLP is ~18" thick (~44" tall, close to the LCD/Plasma) ... while the 65" CRT is a whopping 28" deep (and 62" tall!). Plus, with CRT, the whole cabinet will be squared off in a single rectangular block, unlike the sculpted sloping sides of a DLP. (OTOH, this is why you need a stand with DLP, whereas CRT is it's own stand!)

As an aside, yesterday while drooling over the 70" Elite at Magnolia, a possible solution came to me re the issue of lost viewing distance/depth that you get when upgrading from a deep TV to a flat panel: Spend a some money on a really good quality extending TV mount for the set. There are mounts with articulating arms that can allow you to pull the set even 2 feet away from the wall (maybe more). This would let you bring the TV that full 2' farther into the room for formal viewing where immersion is really desired, while keeping the open space in the room during regular living room use needs, and for routine casual television viewing. (No need for immersion to watch a sitcom, but it's nice when you're watching an action movie or hosting a viewing party.) Since this solution came to me, I'll be giving more serious consideration to replacing my 65" RPTV with a 65" flat panel, since I won't lose as much (or any) perceived size as I had feared.


----------



## lcaillo

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> "Immersive" the way you get when you are 1.5x screen width distance from the screen? No.
> 
> _More immersive_ than you have now, with the smaller set? Absolutely.


Precisely.
Immersive is a subjective and personal concept. No one can tell you how immersive is enough to satisfy you. There is certainly a significant difference in 10 inches at 50-60" sets, IMO, but what is enough or too much for different people will vary. IMO neither is immersive. For others it may be plenty so.


----------



## mojojojo

Osage_Winter, my screen is a 55 inch plasma. In the end, if the movie is good, you will be pulled in and forget about everything else and just enjoy the movie; if it's not then it doesn't matter how large the screen is. 

I know what letterboxing and pillarboxing are, and I know 1:85 and those formats are the original scope of the movie, but the important content is always on the middle and would prefer to fill my 16:9 screen then see a movie so thin that it makes no sense watching it on tv. 

For the Elite name, Sharp bought the rights to the name, but not the Kuro tech; those went to Panasonic who bought the rights to the Kuro tech.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> "Immersive" the way you get when you are 1.5x screen width distance from the screen? No.
> 
> _More immersive_ than you have now, with the smaller set? Absolutely.


Oh, well I didn't mean "immersive" in the "extreme" sense of the definition, like if it will seem as though a theater screen from the multiplex is in our living room...I just wanted to know if films will seem "more impactful" going up to the 60...



> Sharp licensed the Elite moniker from Pioneer, and hired a bunch of their Kuro techs to help them develop this new line. They are direct descendents of the Pio Elite lineage, no doubt. However, IMO, due to some (not yet solved) inherent limitations in LCD tech, they don't _quite_ match the Pio Kuros, although they beat them in size, of course, and a few other measures.


I see. Interesting.

I am seeing the Sharp 70-inch sets everywhere now -- we just went to a local RC Willey where they had one of these on display (as well as all of the gigantic Mitsubishis from the 65 inch up to the 92 inch DLP) and I saw one in Best Buy yesterday. PQ looks pretty impressive. 



> I just like more space to move around, and that low boy cabinet forces people farther from the screen, reducing the chance that some drunk party guest (or a child!) will damage my screen.  If I had the square footage in my house, I would LOVE to build a set... regardless of depth... into the wall so everything is flush. Very cool look, plus lots of storage. The downside to that, however, is something I've seen way too many times: It locks you into a size limit on the TV (and everything else) for future upgrades. My father-in-law LOVES good TVs, and can afford pretty much anything he wants, but the built-in entertainment center he had custom made many years ago covering the entire wall accommodates 55" MAX, so until he's ready to tear EVERYTHING out, there's no way for him to go bigger.


And indeed, that is a downside to that kind of arrangement, no doubt -- exactly what we are experiencing now. We thought that MAYBE we could go with a 70-inch screen but now the reality is that the 60 would be pushing it because of this wall unit we have. BUT...it sure does make the living room look warm and inviting, and it definitely works on our long wall instead of wall mounting a display, which would make this wall look totally cold and naked...



> DLP sets are _*tiny*_ compared to CRT of similar size. The only difference between DLP size and LCD/Plasma size, however, is depth. You can have a 65" Plasma or LCD set that's a mere 2-3" thick, but a 65" DLP is ~18" thick (~44" tall, close to the LCD/Plasma) ... while the 65" CRT is a whopping 28" deep (and 62" tall!). Plus, with CRT, the whole cabinet will be squared off in a single rectangular block, unlike the sculpted sloping sides of a DLP. (OTOH, this is why you need a stand with DLP, whereas CRT is it's own stand!)


Yes, I'm aware of the differences there -- but, there's just so much more to say about these comparisons as well...the fact that rear projection microdisplays are way bulkier than sleek LCDs and plasmas, yet they are dramatically smaller than the CRT floor-sitting giants they once were etc., etc. 

You know what I have been finding in stores now that we're shopping for a bigger screen that has really been bothering me? Most LCDs and plasmas we are physically touching feel like cardboard props compared to the heft of my 50" SXRD set -- we lifted a Sony 60" LCD in Best Buy yesterday, and it was wobbling and moving like it was a plastic prop, not a real TV...that really got to me. I wish I could blow up my SXRD to 60-inch size with the press of a button...:unbelievable: onder:

As an aside, yesterday while drooling over the 70" Elite at Magnolia, a possible solution came to me re the issue of lost viewing distance/depth that you get when upgrading from a deep TV to a flat panel: Spend a some money on a really good quality extending TV mount for the set. There are mounts with articulating arms that can allow you to pull the set even 2 feet away from the wall (maybe more). This would let you bring the TV that full 2' farther into the room for formal viewing where immersion is really desired, while keeping the open space in the room during regular living room use needs, and for routine casual television viewing. (No need for immersion to watch a sitcom, but it's nice when you're watching an action movie or hosting a viewing party.) Since this solution came to me, I'll be giving more serious consideration to replacing my 65" RPTV with a 65" flat panel, since I won't lose as much (or any) perceived size as I had feared.[/QUOTE]


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



lcaillo said:


> Precisely.
> Immersive is a subjective and personal concept. No one can tell you how immersive is enough to satisfy you. There is certainly a significant difference in 10 inches at 50-60" sets, IMO, but what is enough or too much for different people will vary. IMO neither is immersive. For others it may be plenty so.



Leonard,

I think I have been a bit misleading in terms of my meaning with the word "immersive" -- let me please clarify for everyone participating in the thread (and I thank you all) because I know where you're coming from. When I use the term "immersive," of course I am aware that none of these kinds of TV screens/displays will make you feel like you're sitting in the local cineplex with a 200 foot screen in front of you...nor will it compare to those of you and others all across the world involved in this hobby that have the giant front projection setups that mimic a professional theater -- all I was trying to ascertain was whether or not there will be a _perceived_ increase in "cinematic impact" going from the 50 to a 60-inch display _at our current seating distance_ because we cannot move or change that distance. 

I would absolutely love to have a dedicated room with seating rows and a massive screen with front projection technology -- unfortunately, I could in no way, shape or form afford this kind of setup at the moment nor could our home house such a room. The living room we're in has to double as a "viewing/home theater" area, and as such, we must get TV displays in this room to work. Thus, I have no choice but to look for another TV screen that's simply bigger. 

So, perhaps "immersive" was the wrong word to be using here -- I am just trying to figure out if films on Blu-ray and DVD will _seem_ a bit more impactful on a screen only 10 inches larger. Not immersive to the point that it feels exactly cinematic -- but more impactful than what we're getting from our 50...:T


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



mojojojo said:


> Osage_Winter, my screen is a 55 inch plasma. In the end, if the movie is good, you will be pulled in and forget about everything else and just enjoy the movie; if it's not then it doesn't matter how large the screen is.


You're absolutely right; something to definitely consider and chew on. :T



> I know what letterboxing and pillarboxing are, and I know 1:85 and those formats are the original scope of the movie, but the important content is always on the middle and would prefer to fill my 16:9 screen then see a movie so thin that it makes no sense watching it on tv.


I understand what you're saying about knowing about the 1.85/1.78 formats filling a 16:9 frame -- I was merely pointing out that the letterboxing on the 2.40/2.35 transfers are necessary in order to view the film the way the makers/director intended us to. I don't like the letterboxing either -- but to call the experience a "thin" presentation is a bit misleading IMO...it's not that the film looks "thin," but it's that with proper anamorphic enhancement (which most DVDs contain and all Blu-rays are encoded with) these black areas aren't so annoying as to take you out of the story. If anything, I think we can apply your theory above about the size of the screen and getting caught up in the film moreso to the letterboxing bars -- I find that when I'm watching the 2.35/2.40 films, and if I am into the story, the letterboxing doesn't bother me nearly as much as it did when I first entered the hobby and was watching DVDs on a 4:3 TV; the letterboxing on that set was absolutely _horrendous_...:sarcastic:

That said -- I would prefer all material to fill my screen, as you say; I have found that Blu-ray transfers do not allow any kind of stretching to be done within the 1080p encode for some reason, but I actually haven't checked that out on my current Oppo BD player (my previous Panasonic DMP-BD10A player did not allow zooming of 1080p material). 



> For the Elite name, Sharp bought the rights to the name, but not the Kuro tech; those went to Panasonic who bought the rights to the Kuro tech.


Interesting; Kalani was explaining this to me earlier in the thread...


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

Well, folks, the wife actually thought after we went to a Best Buy yesterday to look at TVs that we would have been better off looking at 70 inch screens -- that's right -- as in the store, the 60 inch looked tiny on their wall of displays and she felt it would make no more impact than the 50 we have now...

Of course, this was under heavy flourescent lighting and amongst dozens of other displays around the 60 -- one of which was the 70" Sharp right above it, which of course dwarfed the 60 we were looking at. Alas -- when we got home and took measurements, it was clear there was absolutely no way we were getting a 70 inch screen in our entertainment center, and it would take buying a new wall unit which would push the ends out way too much on this wall to even fit our Polk RTi12 front channel towers on either side, plus our sub. So even if we sprung for a new wall unit, or tried to modify the one we have now, a 70 inch screen just isn't going to work in this room...

And so we're back to looking at 60's -- I need to know that a 60 is going to be dramatically different than the 50 we have now once we get it home and hooked up. We went to a local RC Willey store today and looked at more TVs and wall units, and the salesman told me two things that interested (and concerned) me -- first, he showed us a 60" set right next to a 52" set, and told me to notice how much bigger the 60 seemed. He went on to explain that with our 50, the 60 will seem even BIGGER than it does next to the 52 in the store. BUT -- again, there was a 70" display right below these, so the 52 and 60 both looked tiny...

Next, he told me we wouldn't find a wall unit to accomodate a 70-inch display -- at least not one with bridging and shelving on the top (to hold our center channel) or with such a "put together" look like with the one we have now. He showed us one wall unit they sold there which had no back panel in the area you'd put the TV, with a massive open space and awkward shelving pieces to the left and right; he said this was the only one THEY sold that would allow a 70 incher to fit. Both my wife and I didn't like this piece.

So, it seems we have to somehow make a 60 inch flat screen work in this wall unit we have now. If I can be assured that there will be an "impact" difference when watching film on a screen 10 inches bigger, I would feel more comfortable making the purchase...


----------



## phreak

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, the only way to KNOW if the extra 10" will make enough difference is to view your current setup from 2' closer. Remember, no one else here is sitting in your living room, so our opinions on immersiveness don't count. My suggestion would be to place a stool immediately in front of your couch, and watch from the stool for 15 minutes, then move back to the couch for 15. Do this a few times. If you resent moving to the couch, buy a bigger TV. If you resent moving to the stool, keep your cash. If it's not immersive enough to compensate you for the discomfort of the stool then it's not immersive enough to compensate you for your hard earned money.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

*UPDATE:*

Okay. We had a handyman over tonight to take care of some stuff for us, and I discussed with him the possibility of modifying our wall unit so that it may fit a 70" display in it -- he actually said it was possible, because the pieces were modular, so it could open up to accomodate the larger screen. He would have to do some custom modification work because there would be some gaps between the area where the screen sits and the cabinets on either side, but it would still be much more cost effective compared to ditching this entire wall unit for a new one to hold a 70" screen, which is what we thought we would have to do if we wanted a screen 20 inches larger than the 50" we have now. As it stands, he did some measurements and found that we could JUST fit a 60" in our space, like I suspected, and could fit a 65" with very little modifications on his part...

So, the question now becomes -- will I definitely get a more immersive, more impactful experience going from our 50" SXRD to a 70" LCD? Is the 20-inch jump more worth it than the 10-inch would have been if I was going with the 60" set? Again -- we will be at a distance of 12 feet...should 1080p Blu-rays look impactful and nearly cinematic at this distance?


----------



## Superior Audio

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



lcaillo said:


> IME, yes, it will make a significant difference.


I couldn't agree more...ESPECIALLY going from a RPTV to a flat panel. Tho don't discount a 73 or larger Mits DLP. They turn up on Craigslist quite often for dirt cheap. Usually with some issues but DLP is oh so easy to repair and parts are modules. VERY easy. That is how I got my last 3 DLP sets for pennies on the dollar.:yikes:


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Superior Audio said:


> I couldn't agree more...ESPECIALLY going from a RPTV to a flat panel. Tho don't discount a 73 or larger Mits DLP. They turn up on Craigslist quite often for dirt cheap. Usually with some issues but DLP is oh so easy to repair and parts are modules. VERY easy. That is how I got my last 3 DLP sets for pennies on the dollar.:yikes:


Thanks, 'Superior.

But what about the jump from 50" to 70"? Do you still think it would be significant in impact difference? 

Also -- can you give me some more insight as to why you feel the move from rear projection to either LCD or plasma is going to be that much more of an improvement? In what ways? 

I would consider -- and did -- one of the massive Mitsubishi monster DLP screens, but we simply have no room for something _that_ large, and I have read about a plethora of horror stories from those who have owned these TVs or knew people that did; almost everyone I correspond with tells me to stay far away from these DLPs...:dontknow:


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

Also Guys,

If we were to put our SXRD up for sale, what do y'all think we could get for it via Craigslist or another site? The TV is basically still brand new, with all stickers still on the speaker/bezel and I have all the manuals...the unit is kept in top notch shape, being cleaned and dusted regularly, and it wasn't too long ago that we changed the lamp in it (the first replacement since owning it).

What would one of these go for used? It is, of course, a 1080p panel...


----------



## Superior Audio

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

Not sure about horror stories beyond the lamp needing occasional replacement which you are already well aware of with your Sony which is, essentially, a DLP. But Mits dropped ALL other tech besides the DLP so what does that tell you? I'll take DLP over other tech any day of the week as it is closest to CRT without all the maintenance required such as convergence, but still maintains the smoothness and film-like qualities that EVERY TV maker strives for.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Superior Audio said:


> Not sure about horror stories beyond the lamp needing occasional replacement which you are already well aware of with your Sony which is, essentially, a DLP.


Well, yes, of course the rear pros need the lamp replacement as a routine every few years, but that's not what these folks were describing as "horror stories" with regard to the Mitsubishis; they were more or less saying they don't last long and have rainbow/light output issues and other problems...and, of course, that the image isn't as "sharp" or "in your face" as a flat panel. That could all be opinion, though. 

As for my Sony SXRD, yes, I am aware it needs a lamp replacement every so often; and while not marketed as a tried-and-true "DLP" set, the SXRD technology is indeed part of the microdisplay subcategory in the newer rear projection displays, using the "SXRAD" chip design, or what Sony likes to call "their version of LCoS." 



> But Mits dropped ALL other tech besides the DLP so what does that tell you? I'll take DLP over other tech any day of the week as it is closest to CRT without all the maintenance required such as convergence, but still maintains the smoothness and film-like qualities that EVERY TV maker strives for.


Well, from what I understand and have gathered from attending press conferences at CES and CEDIA, Mitsubishi got out of the flat panel (LCD/plasma) category not because these technologies "don't work" or they didn't believe in them; it was merely because they want to be regarded as the ultimate BIG, big screen company, offering buyers a real alternative to front projection if they want to stick with a TV screen, with the choices of massive screen sizes up to 92 inches. Many marketing heads at the company openly admitted in press conferences and events that Mitsubishi simply could not keep up with the amount of flat panel TVs companies like Samsung and Sony were selling, so they decided to go a different route and offer massive rear projection sets as the go-to brand for huge television displays.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

So, can anyone tell me if we will see a more dramatic difference going from our 50" rear pro to a 70" LCD or plasma (if there is a 70" plasma commercially available)?


----------



## phreak

My rough math shows about 1000 sq in for a 50", and 2000 sq in for a 70". Pretty much double the size seems significant.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



phreak said:


> My rough math shows about 1000 sq in for a 50", and 2000 sq in for a 70". Pretty much double the size seems significant.


So, you're saying the 70 should seem impactful at our 12 foot seating distance? :scratch:


----------



## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> So, you're saying the 70 should seem impactful at our 12 foot seating distance? :scratch:


"Impactful" is a matter of personal opinion, as we've been saying all along. 70" will definitely be a massive improvement (in immersiveness) over your current 50" set.

70" is a good size, IMO, for a 12' viewing distance. More would be better (as is almost always the case), but you're in the 1080p sweet spot there.

http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> "Impactful" is a matter of personal opinion, as we've been saying all along. 70" will definitely be a massive improvement (in immersiveness) over your current 50" set.


I understand the opinion factor; I just wanted to know what you pretty much answered in the second sentence of this above statement...



> 70" is a good size, IMO, for a 12' viewing distance. More would be better (as is almost always the case), but you're in the 1080p sweet spot there.
> 
> http://s3.carltonbale.com/resolution_chart.html


Thanks; but you feel it's a _good_ size, not an ideal one, huh? :sad:


----------



## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> I understand the opinion factor; I just wanted to know what you pretty much answered in the second sentence of this above statement...
> 
> Thanks; but you feel it's a _good_ size, not an ideal one, huh? :sad:


Let's put it like this:

I sit ~8' away from a 65" set, and there are times I wish it was bigger.

But I'm MUCH happier than I was when I was sitting 12' away from it.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> Let's put it like this:
> 
> I sit ~8' away from a 65" set, and there are times I wish it was bigger.
> 
> But I'm MUCH happier than I was when I was sitting 12' away from it.


Uh oh...

Now that's not really promising...:sweat: onder: :sad:


----------



## Superior Audio

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*

This is honestly being over thought to the max. One mans trash is anothers treasure. You've been given the information you requested but seems you don't want to see the forest for the trees. No one can or will tell you what you will like or think, no matter how many times you persist in asking.


----------



## KalaniP

Osage_Winter said:


> Uh oh...
> 
> Now that's not really promising...:sweat: onder: :sad:


SA is right. You're over thinking this. 

70" is a MAJOR upgrade from a 50", period. If you're looking for a more immersive experience, and can afford it, go for it.

The fact that I lust for an upgrade from a 65" set is indicative of my personal never-ending quest for biggerbetterfastermore. Not that watching movies on a 65" set from 8' away is somehow inherently inadequate. I'd be thrilled to upgrade to a 70" set if I could afford it... Even though coming from 65" it is much less of an upgrade than it will be for you, coming from a 50" set.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> SA is right. You're over thinking this.


Well, I didn't mean to wrinkle any feathers here, but to me, this is going to be a MASSIVE expense for us -- if we can even do it -- and I DON'T want to make a mistake in purchase, so to ME, this IS NOT in fact overthinking it. 



> 70" is a MAJOR upgrade from a 50", period.


Okay; this is pretty much all I have been asking...



> The fact that I lust for an upgrade from a 65" set is indicative of my personal never-ending quest for biggerbetterfastermore. Not that watching movies on a 65" set from 8' away is somehow inherently inadequate. I'd be thrilled to upgrade to a 70" set if I could afford it... Even though coming from 65" it is much less of an upgrade than it will be for you, coming from a 50" set.


In keeping with the tone of inherently discussing 65 inch displays, I was actually going to ask next (based on some information I gathered regarding the lack of ultimate choices in the 70" flat panel arena outside of Sharp) what the pros/cons would be if we were to consider a 65 instead of a 70...would there still be a nice impact upgrade from a 50 at 12 feet? It seems with 65 inch sets there would be some more choice of brands, and we'd actually be able to maybe choose a plasma OR LCD...while also avoiding having to do major reconstructing of our wall unit...


----------



## KalaniP

See, now you're getting back into the realm of "we can't make your decision for you". 

65" is still a substantial upgrade from 50". Not as much as 70", however. Only you can decide if that's "enough" for YOU. For me? I'd jump at the chance to upgrade from 50" to 65". 

For me, upgrading from 65" to 70" is much less of a jump, and considering the price tag, it's been a necessarily slow and deliberate decision-making process. (ignoring the fact than my only viable options are out of reach at the moment anyway). If I was coming from a 50" set, though, there would be a LOT less internal debate and a lot more " the torpedoes". 

You're certainly right that 65" offers more selection. The Panasonic plasmas are incredible, and my first choice this side of the Sharp Elite 70". Even the ST30 and GT30 models are great, if you can't swing the VT30. Consider mounting the tv on a serious mount with an armature and you can bring the screen 2-3' closer to the viewing position for those "event movies" where you really want more immersion than the latest episode of My Name Is Earl. 

Not an easy decision, but in the end, you have to make the payments, and live with it. I suspect you'd be quite happy with either, so it's your call as to how wistfully you'll be looking at the 70" sets if you go with 65" (buyers remorse), and whether or not you can genuinely afford the larger 70" sets (a different sort of buyers remorse!)


----------



## Superior Audio

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



> this is going to be a MASSIVE expense for us -- if we can even do it -- and I DON'T want to make a mistake in purchase, so to ME, this IS NOT in fact overthinking it.
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference? - Page 6 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


That is why God gave us retyrn policies, for what we aren;t happy with and/or not what we thought/were led to believe. 

Also why God gave us CRAIGSLIST to be able to buy cheaply and get a great deal...


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> See, now you're getting back into the realm of "we can't make your decision for you".


I know you guys literally can't; I'm just asking for everyone's opinion and take on the matter...isn't that what hobbyist discussion forums are for? :T 



> 65" is still a substantial upgrade from 50". Not as much as 70", however. Only you can decide if that's "enough" for YOU. For me? I'd jump at the chance to upgrade from 50" to 65".


Thank you for your honest input here; of course I know it wouldn't be, literally, as big a jump as to 70", but would that five inches really make all that much of a difference in your honest opinion? I only ask because you say here: 



> For me, upgrading from 65" to 70" is much less of a jump, and considering the price tag, it's been a necessarily slow and deliberate decision-making process. (ignoring the fact than my only viable options are out of reach at the moment anyway). If I was coming from a 50" set, though, there would be a LOT less internal debate and a lot more " the torpedoes".


:scratch: 



> You're certainly right that 65" offers more selection.


That's what I suspected...hence why I asked...



> The Panasonic plasmas are incredible, and my first choice this side of the Sharp Elite 70". Even the ST30 and GT30 models are great, if you can't swing the VT30. Consider mounting the tv on a serious mount with an armature and you can bring the screen 2-3' closer to the viewing position for those "event movies" where you really want more immersion than the latest episode of My Name Is Earl.


Good to know -- thank you. Indeed, my wife has been eyeballing a 65" Panny plasma, so that would most likely be my first choice, although I do like the idea of playing with an LCD's interpolation/motion smoothing feature in order to get that "film looks like video" look that I happen to personally like on 1080p high definition material; the plasmas don't offer this due to the inherent technology differences...

With regard to your comments on mounting the screen on an arm, we're not going with that kind of install -- the screen will sit on its pedestal on top of a low boy cabinet that is part of our wall unit, so it looks "flush" installed in this entertainment center; but it will already be closer to us because I'm going to make sure the screen sits at the very edge of this cabinet, as close to us as possible, with the remainder of the wall unit around it. It's difficult to put into words, but essentially we won't have an issue in terms of the screen being too "far back"; we're not wall mounting it at all. I will take a pic if I do end up getting any kind of screen to show you what I mean and what our setup looks like...

Okay -- so there are indeed more choices in the 65" arena. Good to know. What else outside of a Panasonic plasma is available in this range? Which LCDs would you suggest, or other plasmas? Further, would a plasma give us good quality for DVD and Blu-ray playback? Will we see a difference coming from our rear projection set? 



> Not an easy decision


THAT is precisely why I am asking these questions of you folks...or, shall I say, my fellow enthusiasts...:T



> I suspect you'd be quite happy with either, so it's your call as to how wistfully you'll be looking at the 70" sets if you go with 65" (buyers remorse), and whether or not you can genuinely afford the larger 70" sets (a different sort of buyers remorse!)


I understand; again, why I wanted some assistance with input. If you think, genuinely, that there won't be too much of a visual difference by going with a 65 over a 70 FROM THE PERSPECTIVE OF COMPARING A 65 TO A 70, not a 50 to a 70, then I would feel more comfortable heading in this direction...


----------



## KalaniP

Coming from CRT sets as I do, natural motion and good black levels are most important to me, along with size, of course. That means plasma, from my standpoint. The only LCD sets I've given serious thought to are the Sharp Elites, which are WAY out my price range at this time. I really don't care for LCD motion... It even bothers me a bit on the Elites.

Plasma and LCD both do great Blu ray (LCD within the limits of its tech, of course), DVD quality depends more on the quality of your scaler, since a fixed-pixel flat panel has to scale any low res content. 

As to 65 vs 70, I can't say since I've never had a 70" set. One thing you might consider is taking SA's advice: try a 65" set and see how it works, and return and upgrade if you feel you want more. It'll be possible to enlarge the cabinet later if you need to go bigger, much harder to make it smaller after a 70" set.


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> Coming from CRT sets as I do, natural motion and good black levels are most important to me, along with size, of course. That means plasma, from my standpoint. The only LCD sets I've given serious thought to are the Sharp Elites, which are WAY out my price range at this time. I really don't care for LCD motion... It even bothers me a bit on the Elites.


Thanks, again, for your input here.

Are even the Sharp 60" Elites out of your budget? The 70" Sharp I thought was semi-affordable at just above 2 grand, given its screen size; but I totally understand where you're coming from, because it looks like 2 grand is going to be our max budget cap...:crying:

When you say "LCD motion," are you referring to the ghosting and image smearing that sometimes happens on fast moving action? 



> Plasma and LCD both do great Blu ray (LCD within the limits of its tech, of course), DVD quality depends more on the quality of your scaler, since a fixed-pixel flat panel has to scale any low res content.


What do you mean by "LCD within the limits of its tech" with regard to Blu-ray? And thank you for giving me some insight here with regard to DVD and BD playback quality -- of course, I would continue using my Oppo Blu-ray player's Anchor Bay processor for DVD upconversion, as I do now. Does a great job with good DVD transfers. :T 



> As to 65 vs 70, I can't say since I've never had a 70" set. One thing you might consider is taking SA's advice: try a 65" set and see how it works, and return and upgrade if you feel you want more. It'll be possible to enlarge the cabinet later if you need to go bigger, much harder to make it smaller after a 70" set.


That is something I can consider, it's just that we didn't want to get stuck with getting a set placed in the wall unit only to have to pack it back up and replace it with something else...

Thank you for the ongoing discussion.


----------



## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> Thanks, again, for your input here.
> 
> Are even the Sharp 60" Elites out of your budget? The 70" Sharp I thought was semi-affordable at just above 2 grand, given its screen size; but I totally understand where you're coming from, because it looks like 2 grand is going to be our max budget cap...:crying:
> 
> When you say "LCD motion," are you referring to the ghosting and image smearing that sometimes happens on fast moving action?
> 
> What do you mean by "LCD within the limits of its tech" with regard to Blu-ray? And thank you for giving me some insight here with regard to DVD and BD playback quality -- of course, I would continue using my Oppo Blu-ray player's Anchor Bay processor for DVD upconversion, as I do now. Does a great job with good DVD transfers. :T


Yes, the 60" Elites are out of my budget... and I would NEVER be ok with downsizing anyway... I'm only going up, not down, in size. I could do the low end 70" Sharps, but wouldn't want to. I'll probably end up with something along the lines of a Panny 65ST30 (~$2.2k). (I may splurge for the GT30, ~$2.4k) but I'm not convinced there's much or any advantage as long as you're having it professionally calibrated anyway.) I don't think I can afford the 65VT30 (~$3.1k), even through it would otherwise be my first choice. So yes, at $5k+ for even the 60" model that I won't consider means no-go on the Elites for me, until prices come down, which they probably won't (significantly) for at least a couple of years.

Re LCD motion: Yes. Ghosting/tearing/etc. HATE that. With a passion. You don't get that with CRT and plasma.

Re "LCD within the limits of its tech" I'm referring to the motion issue, and black levels on all but the best of the best. PQ on a frozen image is otherwise stunning on LCD, arguably moreso than Plasma. LCD, on the other hand, is better for HTPCs (or hardcore gamers, which I am not) as well, since there is zero worry about image retention (burn-in is not as big of a concern as it used to be, but don't kid yourself that it's gone forever). Uses less power, too. But for black levels and natural motion, Plasma is king. The Sharp Elites have for the first time leveled the playing field on the black level issue, but they still lose out on motion, not to mention the absurd price.

Looking _over_ 65" is a VERY small field of options, at this time. And since the best contender (Elite) is priced out of the marker... *shrug*

As much as I want to move over 65", I suspect I'll end up staying there. Unless I can convince my wife to accept one of the 73" Mitsubishi CRTs into our living room. :devil:


----------



## bambino

I say if your your budget allows it go for it. There is certainly going to be a huge differene between a 50" and a 70". Oh!, and if it fits.:T Just do it. 
Otherwise if this seems to pop a question i'd say forget about a TV and get a projector and a 120" screen. You would be sure to tell a difference then, Good luck with all of your decision making.:T


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> Looking _over_ 65" is a VERY small field of options, at this time. And since the best contender (Elite) is priced out of the marker... *shrug*


Well, there are always the 70 and 80" Sharp LCDs, plus the 85" Panasonic plasmas I was just told about, which retail for about 16 grand or something like that...as well as the 73-92" Mitsubishi DLP rear projection sets...unless you were just talking about plasma/LCD...


----------



## Osage_Winter

bambino said:


> I say if your your budget allows it go for it. There is certainly going to be a huge differene between a 50" and a 70". Oh!, and if it fits.:T Just do it.
> Otherwise if this seems to pop a question i'd say forget about a TV and get a projector and a 120" screen. You would be sure to tell a difference then, Good luck with all of your decision making.:T


Thanks Bambino; unfortunately, no, we cannot do a 120" screen plus projector in this house or room we're in...


----------



## KalaniP

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



Osage_Winter said:


> Well, there are always the 70 and 80" Sharp LCDs, plus the 85" Panasonic plasmas I was just told about, which retail for about 16 grand or something like that...as well as the 73-92" Mitsubishi DLP rear projection sets...unless you were just talking about plasma/LCD...


Just talking about Plasma/LCD.

The 70" and 80" Sharp LCDs (non-Elite) are decidedly lower end models, and were never in the running for me.

The 85" Panny plasma would be great, but I'd rather have a new car. :gulp:


----------



## Osage_Winter

*Re: Will 10 Inches Make a Difference?*



KalaniP said:


> Just talking about Plasma/LCD.
> 
> The 70" and 80" Sharp LCDs (non-Elite) are decidedly lower end models, and were never in the running for me.


I've heard nothing but great things about the Sharps from actual owners who have just set them up; in fact, one guy who used to run a 70" SXRD said he cannot believe the step up in performance and image quality he got by going with the 70" Sharp...

I am almost positive he bought the non-Elite as well...



> The 85" Panny plasma would be great, but I'd rather have a new car. :gulp:


Yeah, no kidding...:sarcastic:

What about that 20,000 dollar Sony LCD? What is it they're smoking over there? :unbelievable::unbelievable:


----------



## bxbigpipi

I have a 70" sharp and I love it! The picture quality is amazin! I can't stop raving about this tv! My friend has a 65" and he notices the difference in size!


----------



## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> I have a 70" sharp and I love it! The picture quality is amazin! I can't stop raving about this tv! My friend has a 65" and he notices the difference in size!


Hey again bxb...

Thanks for your feedback; I was looking at the 80" Sharp at Fry's on Labor Day when I went to pick up a couple of Infinity Primus towers for my two channel system (on sale for $99 a piece -- couldn't pass it up) and it was a monster; they had it on display on a fake wall with two rows of seating, but the salesman said it was a blowout model that didn't have the Quattron technology in it, so it was on a massive sale. 

I just don't think we can swing that 80" screen in our living room...:hissyfit:

Do you think I will definitely notice a difference going from the 50" rear projection set I have now to the 70" Sharp? Do you think that will be "enough" to satisfy at 12 feet?


----------



## bxbigpipi

Hey Osage I definitely think you will notice the difference in size!! I've heard quite a few owners love their 80 inch. They say once they get it home and adjust it to their liking it's amazing!! I think you should go for it if you can and let us know what you think.


----------



## bxbigpipi

Sorry 70"


----------



## Osage_Winter

Thanks for your opinion. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Bigger is always better as long as you have a HD signal. Once you go big there is no going back!


----------



## phillihp23

Osage_Winter said:


> Hey again bxb...
> 
> Do you think I will definitely notice a difference going from the 50" rear projection set I have now to the 70" Sharp? Do you think that will be "enough" to satisfy at 12 feet?



Why not just upgrade to a 100" screen for your projector......a lot larger than 80" TV and less expensive upgrade.


----------



## Osage_Winter

ellisr63 said:


> Bigger is always better as long as you have a HD signal. Once you go big there is no going back!


I realize that, but I'm specifically concerned with seeing a difference between 50 and 70 inches.


----------



## Osage_Winter

phillihp23 said:


> Why not just upgrade to a 100" screen for your projector......a lot larger than 80" TV and less expensive upgrade.


Not possible in our room and with our budget, in the way I'd want to do it (a motorized screen over the TV, etc.). We are strictly looking at direct-view, one-piece television displays.


----------



## TheOtherChris

I am going from a 57" RPTV to a 70" Sharp LCD.
It will be delivered tomorrow.
I will try to give my impressions after set up.


----------



## Osage_Winter

That would be most appreciated, Chris! Please do! 

Enjoy your set and congratulations.


----------



## bxbigpipi

Hey Chris did you get the tv yet? If so let us know what you think. What settings did you use, the cnet ones or the YouTube ones?


----------



## Osage_Winter

I believe he said he'd have it tomorrow (Saturday) based on where he is in the world...

EDIT: According to his public info, he's in Idaho in the U.S., so I believe we have to wait until Saturday to get his thoughts, if he gets around to typing them because he will be busy playing with his new toy...which I absolutely can't blame him for!


----------



## bxbigpipi

Thanks for clearing that up Osage. I love to hear people's reactions and comments when they get a new piece of equipment. Still waiting for an update.


----------



## Tonto

> Not possible in our room and with our budget, in the way I'd want to do it (a motorized screen over the TV, etc.). We are strictly looking at direct-view, one-piece television displays.


Wow, that's a shame. I can't imagine going that big without incorporating a projector. Your ideal screen size is 96." There are plenty of sub $2000 projectors that would dazzle you. How much willl you be spending on the TV with custom cabnet mod?


----------



## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> Thanks for clearing that up Osage. I love to hear people's reactions and comments when they get a new piece of equipment. Still waiting for an update.


Indeed; no worries.


----------



## Osage_Winter

Tonto said:


> Wow, that's a shame. I can't imagine going that big without incorporating a projector. Your ideal screen size is 96." There are plenty of sub $2000 projectors that would dazzle you. How much willl you be spending on the TV with custom cabnet mod?


Tonto,

I am aware of all the resolution charts that specifically dictate exactly how big a screen should be from a specific seating distance; I've pretty much studied and seen them all. It always gets thrown up in any screen size discussion I have on any forum. I have found that while maybe scientifically "ideal," these numbers are a bit bananas to me...I mean, there is NO WAY we would be comfortable with a 96-inch screen even at our 12 foot seating distance; there is such a thing as too big especially taking into consideration that this is in a formal living room, unfortunately, with a focal point that really isn't the display/screen. Some of those distance charts suggest screen sizes that seem ridiculous to me at a given distance; further, there is more to a good picture other than sheer image size and raw, visceral immersion. There are things like perceived detail improvement, better color saturation and clarity, etc. even at a huge distance like we're sitting now (ironically, depending on which of these "charts" or "professionals" you take into consideration, we're actually at the maximum you're supposed to sit from a 50" display -- nowhere near ideal, but still within the LIMITS of these ranges) that can be enjoyed when comparing, say, standard DVD resolution to Blu-ray resolution at a given far distance.

That said, we do want a larger screen than what we have now, but we definitely want a TV -- as cool as they are and as theatrical as you can get an experience, there's something that has always rubbed me the wrong way about doing the projector thing at home, unless there is a huge dedicated space in a basement, attic or other bonus room. In the living room we're using now, a projector just would not work...the way I'd want it would be to have a motorized screen drop down from a ceiling soffit during nighttime film watching, right over the everyday general-use TV screen, to retract back up when not in use. This is just TOO expensive for us to consider in terms of the custom work that would need to be done.

As for what we're looking to spend, that's a tricky one -- my wife claims we can swing the Sharp 70" at $2000 or so, then give our handyman whatever he wants to adjust our entertainment cabinet to fit the bigger screen (to a point; he quoted us almost 800 bucks last time to do this work and I almost kicked him out of the house), but since seeing the 80" Sharp on display at Fry's this past Labor Day, where they were having an awesome sale on the non-Quattron last-year models, we're beginning to think that MAYBE we can do an 80...

There was a 90" Sharp LCD in a box at Fry's too, but they wouldn't demo it; I'd love to see that in action....but, as I said, that would be too big for us (well, 96 inches would be too big...90? Well....)...:T


----------



## bxbigpipi

Hey Osage, if you go with the 70" you can look into buying a tv stand that holds a 60 to 65". That's what I did when I bought my 70". The tv hangs about an inch and a half over each side of the stand barely noticeable and the stand cost me about $300. Came with 3 doors and space for 6 components.


----------



## bxbigpipi

I sat down yesterday to watch the end of transformers 3 on bluray on my 70" and was blown away. I had like 3 or 4 months since I had watched a bluray and I have fallen in love all over again with 1080p picture quality.


----------



## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> Hey Osage, if you go with the 70" you can look into buying a tv stand that holds a 60 to 65". That's what I did when I bought my 70". The tv hangs about an inch and a half over each side of the stand barely noticeable and the stand cost me about $300. Came with 3 doors and space for 6 components.


I appreciate the suggestion, bxb...it's just that we already have a wall unit complete with the center cabinet (that would hold the TV) plus the two side cabinet pieces.


----------



## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> I sat down yesterday to watch the end of transformers 3 on bluray on my 70" and was blown away. I had like 3 or 4 months since I had watched a bluray and I have fallen in love all over again with 1080p picture quality.


I'm jealous...

Did the Blu-ray have the letterboxing areas? If so, did you leave them like that or stretch them (if you could) to fit the screen? Do the bars distract you?


----------



## bxbigpipi

No it did not have the bars, I think that's called letter boxing. I do believe you can stretch the image but I did not have to for that movie.


----------



## bxbigpipi

When are you going to pull the trigger on the new tv Osage? I'm excited for you! I always get excited whenever someone gets a new piece of equipment.


----------



## TheOtherChris

The Sharp arrived Friday.
I got it mounted on the wall Saturday, and "yes" I didn't take the time to reply because I have been "tweaking" my new display.

First Impressions.
Out of the box this TV is so much brighter than my old 57" RPTV.
I used a MonoPrice tilt wall mount (rated for 165lbs) and I am comfortable with its stability.
SOE is substantial out of the box. My son is a computer nerd and likes the 120hz refresh. I am 50+ and don't care for it, so I turned it off.
As for settings, I used Suzook's settings from AVS. They're actually for a 80" 632, but they are MUCH better than the factory settings.

OPC Off
Backlight +1
Contrast +28
Brightness +1
Color 0
Tint 0
Sharpness 0

Advanced Value
C.M.S. - Hue
R 0
Y +2
G -10
C -9
B 0
M +2

C.M.S. - Saturation
R 0
Y -10
G -5
C 0
B 0
M 0
C.M.S. - Value
R -2
Y -2
G +3
C -18
B +10
M -12
Color Temp. Low
R Gain (LO) +1
G Gain (LO) 0
B Gain (LO) +1
R Gain (HI) 0
G Gain (HI) 0
B Gain (HI) -8
Motion Enhancement 120Hz Lo
Active Contrast Off
Gamma Adjustment 0
Film Mode Off
DNR Off
Monochrome Off
Range of OPC NA

This TV provides great shadow detail that I was missing with my old RPTV. 
The size difference is wonderful. I am VERY glad I went up to the 70".
DTV feed in HD is much better on this set than the old one as well.
Interestingly, I actually prefer the factory settings (with 120hz refresh) for PIXAR material as it is just stunning.

First row distance to the screen is now 12' and the screen is tilted about 5° from vertical.
Ceiling height is only 7' in this basement theater cave.

I haven't trimmed out the install yet, but I will post pics when finished.








I took a pic of the Hitachi before I finished disconnecting everything. 
The window behind it had been covered with aluminum foil for light. (gehtto, I know)









We decided to cover the window this time (leaving the mini blind showing from the outside)
The frame is lag screwed to the window studs and header.
You can see a small vertical board to the right and left. 
This represents the edges of the new display to be centered in the wall. 
The window was NOT centered.









Most of the wall is now covered in beadboard (I have to scribe the last piece to fit)
The TV mounted to the wall.
The "plan" is to get a low console for gear to sit below the display and ditch the tower on the right.
ISF calibration will be done in about a month after the display has had a chance to "equalize".


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## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> No it did not have the bars, I think that's called letter boxing. I do believe you can stretch the image but I did not have to for that movie.


LOL...yes...it's called "letterboxing"...when the black areas (known as "bars") are on the sides of the screen (for, example, full screen/4:3 material presented on a 16:9 widescreen display without stretching), that is known as *pillarboxing*. :T


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## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> When are you going to pull the trigger on the new tv Osage? I'm excited for you! I always get excited whenever someone gets a new piece of equipment.


Unfortunately, we're nowhere near that stage as of yet due to monetary issues...:hissyfit::hissyfit::spend:


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## Osage_Winter

TheOtherChris said:


> The Sharp arrived Friday.
> I got it mounted on the wall Saturday, and "yes" I didn't take the time to reply because I have been "tweaking" my new display.
> 
> First Impressions.
> Out of the box this TV is so much brighter than my old 57" RPTV.
> I used a MonoPrice tilt wall mount (rated for 165lbs) and I am comfortable with its stability.
> SOE is substantial out of the box. My son is a computer nerd and likes the 120hz refresh. I am 50+ and don't care for it, so I turned it off.
> As for settings, I used Suzook's settings from AVS. They're actually for a 80" 632, but they are MUCH better than the factory settings.
> 
> OPC Off
> Backlight +1
> Contrast +28
> Brightness +1
> Color 0
> Tint 0
> Sharpness 0
> 
> Advanced Value
> C.M.S. - Hue
> R 0
> Y +2
> G -10
> C -9
> B 0
> M +2
> 
> C.M.S. - Saturation
> R 0
> Y -10
> G -5
> C 0
> B 0
> M 0
> C.M.S. - Value
> R -2
> Y -2
> G +3
> C -18
> B +10
> M -12
> Color Temp. Low
> R Gain (LO) +1
> G Gain (LO) 0
> B Gain (LO) +1
> R Gain (HI) 0
> G Gain (HI) 0
> B Gain (HI) -8
> Motion Enhancement 120Hz Lo
> Active Contrast Off
> Gamma Adjustment 0
> Film Mode Off
> DNR Off
> Monochrome Off
> Range of OPC NA
> 
> This TV provides great shadow detail that I was missing with my old RPTV.
> The size difference is wonderful. I am VERY glad I went up to the 70".
> DTV feed in HD is much better on this set than the old one as well.
> Interestingly, I actually prefer the factory settings (with 120hz refresh) for PIXAR material as it is just stunning.
> 
> First row distance to the screen is now 12' and the screen is tilted about 5° from vertical.
> Ceiling height is only 7' in this basement theater cave.
> 
> I haven't trimmed out the install yet, but I will post pics when finished.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I took a pic of the Hitachi before I finished disconnecting everything.
> The window behind it had been covered with aluminum foil for light. (gehtto, I know)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We decided to cover the window this time (leaving the mini blind showing from the outside)
> The frame is lag screwed to the window studs and header.
> You can see a small vertical board to the right and left.
> This represents the edges of the new display to be centered in the wall.
> The window was NOT centered.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most of the wall is now covered in beadboard (I have to scribe the last piece to fit)
> The TV mounted to the wall.
> The "plan" is to get a low console for gear to sit below the display and ditch the tower on the right.
> ISF calibration will be done in about a month after the display has had a chance to "equalize".


Do you feel the 70" is sufficient from a 12 foot seating distance? This is crucial to us, because that's our exact distance as well...

Does Sharp offer a "Standard" mode on these sets? As far as your settings, what mode were they made in? Did you just literally copy someone's settings over at AVS? I know you want to have an ISF calibration done, but did you consider using a few setup discs to get in the ballpark yourself (Spears & Munsil, THX Optimizer, etc.)?


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## TheOtherChris

Osage_Winter said:


> Do you feel the 70" is sufficient from a 12 foot seating distance? This is crucial to us, because that's our exact distance as well...
> 
> Does Sharp offer a "Standard" mode on these sets? As far as your settings, what mode were they made in? Did you just literally copy someone's settings over at AVS? I know you want to have an ISF calibration done, but did you consider using a few setup discs to get in the ballpark yourself (Spears & Munsil, THX Optimizer, etc.)?


The 70" is sufficient for us. I looked at the 80" 632 and REALLY wanted to like it, but just didn't care for the picture. I know, everyone who has the 80" loves it and I MAY have if I had taken it home and changed the settings from the demo mode used in the show room. Also, our ceiling really isn't tall enough to not have an 80" look odd (to me).

The "Standard" mode for Sharp is overly bright and processed for my taste.
The settings I used were all done in "Movie" mode. Yes, they were lifted from a VERY popular thread on forum X as a good starting point.
I have done my own "calibrations" before but a professional calibration (not just a BB one) was only another $100 (with purchase) so I figured I would give them a try as well. It will be interesting to see how the "pro" settings compare to those I am using for live action movies now.

The Soap Opera Effect is really quite interesting to me (but turned off) and I have some "clouding" on black screen.
However nothing that I can see for normal viewing; even with such dark movies as Deathly Hallows or Prisoner of Azkaban.

All in all, I am VERY happy with the display (so far).


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## Osage_Winter

TheOtherChris said:


> The 70" is sufficient for us. I looked at the 80" 632 and REALLY wanted to like it, but just didn't care for the picture. I know, everyone who has the 80" loves it and I MAY have if I had taken it home and changed the settings from the demo mode used in the show room. Also, our ceiling really isn't tall enough to not have an 80" look odd (to me).
> 
> The "Standard" mode for Sharp is overly bright and processed for my taste.
> The settings I used were all done in "Movie" mode. Yes, they were lifted from a VERY popular thread on forum X as a good starting point.
> I have done my own "calibrations" before but a professional calibration (not just a BB one) was only another $100 (with purchase) so I figured I would give them a try as well. It will be interesting to see how the "pro" settings compare to those I am using for live action movies now.
> 
> The Soap Opera Effect is really quite interesting to me (but turned off) and I have some "clouding" on black screen.
> However nothing that I can see for normal viewing; even with such dark movies as Deathly Hallows or Prisoner of Azkaban.
> 
> All in all, I am VERY happy with the display (so far).


When watching films on the 70 (if you have done so thus far), does it feel kind of "theatrical" (I mean, not like an IMAX screen or anything, but....) and enjoyably immersive?

Did you try and alter Standard mode so the color and sharpness, etc. isn't so saturated?


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## TheOtherChris

Osage_Winter said:


> When watching films on the 70 (if you have done so thus far), does it feel kind of "theatrical" (I mean, not like an IMAX screen or anything, but....) and enjoyably immersive?
> 
> Did you try and alter Standard mode so the color and sharpness, etc. isn't so saturated?


I have watched several films/movies so far. The screen does not fill my view like a commercial theater would. I would need to go to a 90" for that (and it is out of my practical budget).

I have played with the Standard mode a little, but decided there was no good reason for me to do so since I find the modified Movie mode adequate 'til I get the calibration done in October.

If the relation of screen size to your perception is of high importance, it might be best to find a showroom with a 70" and an 80" and place a chair at your seating distance to know if it is immersive to you because we are all so very different. When we first got the 57" my wife said "it's too big. Take it back. She got used to it and now loves the 70".

Personally, we are pleased with the upgrade from 57" to 70".

We are now considering moving the front row forward to 10 foot viewing distance (and second row forward to about 15 feet) so we can add a third row of "cheap seats" for youth parties. 

find something and then ENJOY it without looking at whatever comes out next.:T


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## Osage_Winter

Chris,

I totally get what you're saying about the screen not feeling like you're in a "commercial theater" hence why I also mentioned the "not like an IMAX screen or anything, but..." -- I just want to know if watching film seems more "indulgent" and "in your face" a bit compared to your smaller previous screen...


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## mandtra

Yes , a big diff


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## Osage_Winter

mandtra said:


> Yes , a big diff


You mean with regard to the original question of this thread?


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## bxbigpipi

Hey Osage I think that you will notice and enjoy the difference. When I first got my 70" you could dramatically tell that we went big.


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## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> Hey Osage I think that you will notice and enjoy the difference. When I first got my 70" you could dramatically tell that we went big.


What size were you coming from again?


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## bxbigpipi

We came from a Panasonic viera 720p 50 inch plasma which is now in the bedroom. You can definitely tell the difference! It looks so little compared to the 70 inch.


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## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> We came from a Panasonic viera 720p 50 inch plasma which is now in the bedroom. You can definitely tell the difference! It looks so little compared to the 70 inch.


Thanks, bxb...

We were also thinking of moving the 50 inch SXRD to the bedroom if and when we replaced it for a 70 in the living room...but I don't think it can work because of its sheer heft and size...this is a screen that cannot be hung on a wall, and the stand it sat on when we first set it up in our previous apartment, an open glass-shelved Bell'O, is now being used for a TV and sound system in our exercise room...plus, the stand is so bulky for this TV that even IT would have a hard time incorporating itself into the master bedroom...:rolleyesno::sarcastic:


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## bxbigpipi

I had a glassed shelved Bell'O with my old CRT tv in the bedroom before the panny. It was 3 tiered with 2 metal v shaped sided holding them up.


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## Osage_Winter

bxbigpipi said:


> I had a glassed shelved Bell'O with my old CRT tv in the bedroom before the panny. It was 3 tiered with 2 metal v shaped sided holding them up.


I still actually have the matching Bell'O "audio tower" to that TV stand which I use as the equipment rack for my two channel system...


----------



## TheOtherChris

Osage_Winter said:


> Chris,
> 
> I totally get what you're saying about the screen not feeling like you're in a "commercial theater" hence why I also mentioned the "not like an IMAX screen or anything, but..." -- I just want to know if watching film seems more "indulgent" and "in your face" a bit compared to your smaller previous screen...


To our eyes, "yes" the new 70" is "wow" bigger than the 57". This is even the case with the new display mounted to the wall which is about 30" further back than where the 57" sat.

However, I have clouding/flashlighting that does not appear to be getting better. I will have the AV store come look at it to tell me what they think. It is only noticeable in darker scenes but has become a distraction (to me).


----------



## Osage_Winter

TheOtherChris said:


> To our eyes, "yes" the new 70" is "wow" bigger than the 57". This is even the case with the new display mounted to the wall which is about 30" further back than where the 57" sat.
> 
> However, I have clouding/flashlighting that does not appear to be getting better. I will have the AV store come look at it to tell me what they think. It is only noticeable in darker scenes but has become a distraction (to me).


How far do you sit from the new 70" again?


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## TheOtherChris

Osage_Winter said:


> How far do you sit from the new 70" again?


Eyes at 12 feet.


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## Osage_Winter

Exactly the same distance as us...


----------

