# An Old Horn Speaker Design



## Prof.

Well I never thought I would be starting a thread in this forum!

It's been over 35 years since I've built speakers and I thought my DIY speaker building days were over!!.
I have always bought commercial speakers since those days..because I didn't think I could build anything better in the price ranges that I've bought..
But recently I came across a design that really tweaked my interest again!!

I've had an interest in horn speaker designs for many years, but they've either been too complex to build..too large or too expensive to buy..
I heard a pair of large folded horn speakers many years ago and was most impressed with their effortless sound and projection quality..

I've been a bit disappointed with the performance of my current speakers of late..They sound quite good but lack an openness quality and have very little projection of sound from the screen..They are Behringer 2030p nearfield monitors mounted in a baffle wall behind an AT screen..
I should have realised in the beginning that they were not the best choice, considering that they are nearfield monitors and were never designed to be used behind an AT screen..

I started looking around at what was available in a horn system..The first obvious choice was a Klipsch horn, but these are very bright to my ears (as others have said) and the type of sound didn't appeal to me..Also they are not bass horns and this is what I was particularly after..
It seemed that any design that used a bass horn system was going to be very expensive and way out of my budget..

I searched Google to see if there was any sort of a DIY horn system that I could possibly build and came across a design that's been around for a very long time!.
I saw the original design over 40 years ago, but that design was way too big for my listening environment..This was a folded variety of the original design and was well within the size I could handle for my theatre..
Some older age members may well remember the Voight Horn tapered quarter wave pipe ( TQWP) also known as an exponential horn.. which was originally designed by Voight in the 1930's!
The principal was good then and still applies today..

A Swedish designer has modified the basic design into a smaller speaker system, more suited to normal listening rooms and using newer drivers ( mind you..as it turns out.. his design had been around for some years) and a very simple construction method..

I read everything I could find on his design.. various reviews and emails from people who had built these speakers..and all seemed very impressed with their performance..All of the letters were from people who built the speakers for a 2ch. system only..

The system comes in kit form for a stereo pair..It consists of a bass/midrange driver, a tweeter and a very basic 6dB. crossover..It also comes with an electronic cut out device that trips if the driver is being overloaded..and then resets itself after 10 mins.! Pretty nifty!
They supply the plans for the construction of the boxes and you build them yourself..

That all sounded good to me so I contacted the company by email to ask if they would supply kits for 3 speakers and if so..how much!
I received a very quick reply back from Stefan to say that they would supply me with a kit for making 3 speakers at a cost of 2545.00 Krona..including shipping!
I thought that sounds like a lot of money, until I did a quick conversion caculation..It turned out to be $380.00 AUD including shipping!!!! WOW!!! I was staggered at such a low price for a 3 speaker systems!! Then it started to concern me as to whether this was going to be some sort of cheap rubbishy speakers they were supplying!!
I had read earlier that these horn speakers had been independently tested, and were found to be flat down to 30hz.!! So if that was true, then it must be a good design using quality drivers!
So I ordered them..

Here is the link to the supplier if anyone's interested in these kits..
http://www.valutronic.se/vh1e.html

Next...The kits arrive..


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## ALMFamily

Subscribed - looking forward to following your build!


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## Prof.

Thanks Joe..I'm writing up the kit details now..


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## Wardsweb

Looking forward to your build. I love horns. I have full range Bass reflex double horns, vintage Altec 511b, custom CNC wood JBL 2397 and very large Klipsch Jubilee with the K402 horns.


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## Prof.

Thanks Luther..
I heard some very large bass reflex horns driven with valve amps, a long time ago and they sounded exceptionally good!


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## Prof.

The 3 speaker kits arrived 12 days after ordering..All in good condition thankfully!..

I immediately opened the driver boxes to see what brand they were using!
The bass/mid drivers looked more like PA speakers, with very stiff ribbed cones! The roll surrounds seemed quite soft which allowed the cones to move in and out relatively freely..
They were all branded "Monacor"..I had never heard of that brand, so I did a Google search to see if anything came up..
To my surprise, it turns out that they are made in Germany by a very large organisation, which manufactures a huge range of speakers and are evidently very popular in Europe!.. I felt a lot better!! :bigsmile:
The main driver is an 8" bass/mid, coupled with a 1" tweeter..The crossover component is a simple 4uF capacitor..I wondered whether that would be enough for the crossover!..
The fs. of the bass/mid driver is listed as 45hz..which is quite respectable for a small bass driver...with a frequency range of 30hz. - 3500 Khz!. Overall very good specs..It also has a very high Qts.factor of 1.0..I believe that this is part of the design criteria for his exponential horn..
The electronic cut out device is a single electronic component which is wired in series with the bass driver..There's nothing written on it, so I'm guessing it's a thermistor of some sort..
They also supplied a large amount of twin wire and the terminal connectors..Everything you need except for some glue and screws!!

Next up..Time to start building the boxes..


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## Wardsweb

Nothing quite like a bass horn for open airy speed and don't get me started on mid horns. I have to go spin some Brubeck now.


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## Prof.

I sold my Brubeck album a long time ago..Tomorrow,it will probably worth a fortune!! :crying:


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## Prof.

Prior to the kits arriving, I had calculated from the construction plans that I would need 3 sheets 8' x 4' 16mm. MDF..
Full size sheets would have been too difficult and too heavy to handle on my own, so I got the timber supplier to cut them into strips of the appropriate widths..Then all I had to do was to cut them to the required lengths..
My compound mitre saw was not big enough to handle the widths, so I knocked up a crude docking saw..That gave me a throat of 18" which was wide enough to take the strips..It worked quite well and made the job a lot easier..

This is what it looks like..Simple but effective!..









After all the pieces were cut to size, it was time to start the assembly..First job being to cut out the holes for the speakers..









I used a glue that is both an adhesive and a filler in one..It evidently expands as it dries, so I thought that it would do the job of filling any gaps in the joins..It worked quite well...
I'm working outside under the Ivy covered Patio..It's nice and cool out here!! so some of the photos are a bit dark I'm afraid..

The first box showing the path of the horn..










The boxes are lined with 6mm. thick felt, but there is no filling in the path.. Stefan was very adamant about not putting in any filling!









The other side is fitted..


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## robbo266317

They look like a cross between a 1/4 wave T/L and a horn?

Mind you, if they sound good, then who cares!


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## Wardsweb

Love your saw jig. :T

Looks like things are coming together very nicely. What kind of finish do you plan to use on the cabinets?


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## ALMFamily

Nicely done Prof - I also like your DIY saw!:T

That is quite a lot of work done in a short period of time!


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## Prof.

Yes..The VH-1's are generally considered a combination of both, but from my understanding, the difference between a TL and a horn is that a TL starts out with a wide throat area and gradually reduces in square area until it reaches the vent..
The horn (as you can see in the photo) tapers the opposite way..


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## Prof.

> Love your saw jig. :T


:bigsmile: Thanks Luther..Pretty crude but it did the job!



> Looks like things are coming together very nicely. What kind of finish do you plan to use on the cabinets?


They will just be painted flat black..I won't be spending a lot of time in finishing them because they'll be behind the screen, out of sight..



ALMFamily said:


> Nicely done Prof - I also like your DIY saw!:T
> 
> That is quite a lot of work done in a short period of time!


Thanks Joe..
The main problem I had with the docking saw was having to keep cleaning the rails of saw dust! 
I wasn't able to set up the vacuum cleaner in a good position to remove the dust successfully as I cut..

Once all the panels were cut to size, it was a very quick and simple task to put them all together..
Everthing was glued to one of the side panels and held in position..and with the quick setting adhesive, I was able to fit the other side very quickly..
I had already bought the felt, so everything was ready to go!
I did all 3 boxes in a day!


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## robbo266317

Prof. said:


> Yes..The VH-1's are generally considered a combination of both, but from my understanding, the difference between a TL and a horn is that a TL starts out with a wide throat area and gradually reduces in square area until it reaches the vent..
> The horn (as you can see in the photo) tapers the opposite way..


When I was making my TL in the mid 80's they had both designs and the speaker parameters chose which method to use. 
However, we didn't have all the great tools available today like Winisd or Hornresp.to make the design easier.

I also like your jig, I made one similar, except at an angle,for my router to make some fake Dado boards to repair a missing section in our rental property.


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## Prof.

robbo266317 said:


> When I was making my TL in the mid 80's they had both designs and the speaker parameters chose which method to use.
> However, we didn't have all the great tools available today like Winisd or Hornresp.to make the design easier.


I know what you mean!..I made my TL's in the early 80's, using 12" Wharfedale's..
I used the gradual reducing taper method and they worked well..The biggest problem I had was finding a suitable filling material that wasn't too dense..I eventually found some stranded wool and that did the job well..



> I also like your jig, I made one similar, except at an angle,for my router to make some fake Dado boards to repair a missing section in our rental property.


:T


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## Dale Rasco

First off Prof, excellent job! Coming along very nicely indeed! Second I wanted to share that about halfway through your opening post I realized I was reading it with the voice of Professor Hubert Farnsworth from Futurama in my head! Well played Prof!


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## Prof.

:rofl: That's very funny Dale!! :rofl2: I went back and re-read my first post with Prof. Farnsworth voice in my head and I just hear him speaking in that way!! :rofl2:


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## mwmkravchenko

Looks quite a bit like a mass loaded TL.

They can sound quite good, and keep the efficiency up.

Hope they sound as good as they look.


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## Prof.

Yes..According to Stefan they only need 20W. to drive them!! That's pretty effecient!!


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## Prof.

Well I've finished the speakers and they're now installed..

The finished speakers..



















The painting of the boxes and the wiring went well, but the installation was a bit of a problem..
I had to remove some of the screen wall framing to get them in and also remove the baseboard of the wall frame..The baseboard is very thick which is made up of 2 layers of 70 x 35 structural Pine..
With the speakers in position behind the baseboard, it would have been a bit of an obstruction to the vents, as the vents sit right on the floor..
The extra length of the side panels on the speakers (as you can see in the construction photos) is supposed to keep the vents off the floor, but the weight of the speakers made them sink into the carpet.. virtually obviating the extra length..

I also had to re-locate the subwoofer, to be positioned between the centre and right speakers..
With the speakers and sub in position, I then was able to re-install the cross beam which supports the bottom of the screen and the lower cloth covered panel..

Here they are in position..Still need to sort out the wiring! :R



















They were not very stable just standing on the carpet, so I put down a plank of MDF to stand them on..It made for a much more solid base..

After wiring them up I left the audio calibration as it was for the Behringer's and just listened to some TV shows for awhile.
I kept the volume down initially to make sure all the drivers were working..Even on low volume they sounded quite loud so I thought I should do a level check at least!
I set MCACC to do a level check at reference and found myself hurriedly grabbing the remote to bring the levels down! The output was way above my previous settings and with the SPL meter set to the 70dB scale, the needle swung hard over against the stop!
This was the difference in level settings between the two types of speakers to obtain 75dB on all front speakers..

Behringer's..

L...+4.5
C.. +5.5
R.. +4.0

VH-1's

L.. -1.0
C.. -3.0
R.. -0.5

These horn speakers are very efficient and I can see now why they only need 20W. to drive them!!

In my next post I'll give an evaluation of these speakers..Back shortly!


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## Wardsweb

Congratulations! Looks like a fine job and you can say "I made that."


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## Prof.

Thanks Luther..Fortunately all my little errors will be hidden behind the screen! :rofl2: :R


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## Dale Rasco

Great job sir! They look great and I am sure they sound phenomenal!


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## Prof.

Thank you Dale...The sound evalution test was "interesting"!!..which I'll be doing a report on shortly..


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## ALMFamily

Great job Prof - looking forward to your impressions!


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## Prof.

Thanks Joe...and here is my report..

By Sunday afternoon I was ready to put the speakers to the test..

I firstly completely re-calibrated the audio side to the correct parameters of the new speakers using MCACC..
Once I was satisfied with all the settings ..I then played a BR movie at a little less volume than I would normally..

What I noticed immediately was how full the soundstage sounded! There was a seamless transition of sound right across the screen and well beyond..In fact it just never seemed to end!! I could hear sounds down to about a quarter the length of the room from the screen..even when there was no real surround sounds!!!
It gave a very enveloping feel to the sound, the like of which I've never heard before!! These speakers obviously have excellent horizontal dispersion..
BUT..The sound was thin and sounded like it was lacking badly in bass..

I played scenes from a couple of other movies and it didn't seem a whole lot better! I was beginning to feel a bit dejected about it all, when I remembered reading in one of the owners emails that he had experienced the same thing and said it took a long time for the bass drivers to run in, but when they were run in the whole system came alive!!!

That perked me right up, so I decided to run the speakers through MCACC at reference level with pink noise switching between speakers..for about fifteen minutes..I then did a final calibration and made a few minor adjustments in the EQ..

I then played the BR version of Star Wars 1V..One that I've heard many times and have used as a test disc. for musical instruments, voices, bass and surround sounds, so I know it very well..

I brought the volume up to a level that I normally play it at..I didn't play the opening music theme as that is very loud at my standard volume setting and I didn't want to over stress the speakers..so I played the opening scene where that huge space ship flies overhead!

Well my whole room just thundered and vibrated with that sound..with all 3 horns and sub working together! It blew me away!! :hsd: :yikes: I have never heard such a deep roar in all the times I've watched that movie!!
I was just getting over that when the next scene with the Storm troopers entering the ship came on the screen and the Laser fight begins..
The sound of the Laser's was totally different than I had ever heard before..It's hard to describe but it wasn't just a whiz sound, it had real body to the sound!

I watched the movie right to the end and enjoyed every moment of it with a totally new sound..
Voices were clear and distinct right through even when there were other noises and music at the same time..

The VH-1's are also a very musical sounding speaker and I heard individual instruments that I had never heard before..It just made the musical side sound more full..

I was wrapped in what I had just heard!!, :yay: so I then switched back to watching TV..I noticed immediately that announcer's voices were much richer and fuller than I had heard previously and the whole speaker system had taken on a bigger sound generally!

I'm now looking forward to watching a LOT of my movies again with these speakers and by all accounts they should get even better the more I use them..

If anyone is looking to have a BIG sound in their theatre for a very reasonable price..then I highly recommend these speakers..


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## robbo266317

That is impressive considering the kit price is so reasonable.
You are making me wish I had a little spare cash to give them a try!

Well done.


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## kadijk

Nice job Prof. I'm glad to hear that the speakers have turned out to be a good decision. It seems a bit risky sometimes, but with good research and good information, the risk pays off. Sounds like you'll be happy for a while with these ones.


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## ALMFamily

Great to hear they have the sound you were hoping for Prof - the only horn based speaker I have heard so far is the Klipsch and I would love to hear something else to have a comparison. 

Enjoy your movie collection my good sir!


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## Prof.

robbo266317 said:


> That is impressive considering the kit price is so reasonable.
> You are making me wish I had a little spare cash to give them a try!
> 
> Well done.


Bill.. if you ever have a spare $500 (which is what the total cost was including timber) It would be worth your while to build a set..


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## Prof.

kadijk said:


> Nice job Prof. I'm glad to hear that the speakers have turned out to be a good decision. It seems a bit risky sometimes, but with good research and good information, the risk pays off. Sounds like you'll be happy for a while with these ones.


Thanks kadijk..It was a bit of a gamble buying an unknown speaker system from an unknown overseas supplier..But I always research thoroughly anything I buy and it all seemed very favourable and Stefan was very helpful..
I still can't get over how cheap these kits are and the speakers are obviously good quality..
He used his original design speakers for 17 years and never had to replace a driver!! That speaks mountains to their quality and reliability!!


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## Prof.

ALMFamily said:


> Great to hear they have the sound you were hoping for Prof - the only horn based speaker I have heard so far is the Klipsch and I would love to hear something else to have a comparison.
> 
> Enjoy your movie collection my good sir!


Joe..I am thrilled with my purchase..
Horns give a totally different dimension to the sound and it's something I've been wanting for a long time!
It would be well worth your while to see if you can find someone who's using horns, besides the domestic Klipsch horns..Something like Luther has!!

I watched "Battleship" last night..Man did that ever loosen up the cones!!! :yikes: It was brilliant!! 
The richness of the bass in the opening musical score was breathtaking!! :hsd:

My sub (Richter Thor Mk.4) is known as a "thumpy" sort of sub and not very musical..But combined with the horns,bass sounds much more musical and I think listening to something like a double bass playing would be excellent!


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## Prof.

I think this might be my next DIY Horn project!!! :yikes: :yikes: :hsd: :rofl:


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## ALMFamily

Prof. said:


> I think this might be my next DIY Horn project!!! :yikes: :yikes: :hsd: :rofl:


No pic there....


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## Prof.

Oops!..Sorry..forgot the pic..










Can't find any dimensions on them, but my guess is they're BIG!! Interesting that they are only using 15mm. thick timber!


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## PassingInterest

Let's see...15mm is about 0.59 inches (sorry, I think in _inches_).
All of Bill Fitzmaurice's designs use 1/2" plywood.
The trick is in the bracing.

So, what is the behemoth you teased us with?


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## Prof.

It's a JTR Orbit Shifter (love the name!) Sub..
They say it's so powerful that the Earth shifts slightly every time you use it!!! :rofl:
It was tested in someone's large theatre build and with it sitting on the front stage at one end and two big guys standing at the other end..it was bouncing them up and down!!! :yikes: :hsd:


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## PassingInterest

139 dB out. That's enough power to alienate your neighbors in a hurry! What's not to like?
185 pounds might make them a little cumbersome to work on though.
Are you getting a flat pack kit or do you have build plans for them?
I don't know if they actually sell kits. I'm just curious.
I look forward to following the build.


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## Prof.

PassingInterest said:


> Are you getting a flat pack kit or do you have build plans for them?
> I don't know if they actually sell kits. I'm just curious.
> I look forward to following the build.


No plans or kits are available..I was just dreaming and being a bit facieous at the same time..
I am planning though to build a horn based subwoofer, sometime in the near future..
It will be much more scaled down than the JTR and something that won't blow my walls out!!


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## PassingInterest

Oh, you're going to do something _reasonable_. How disappointing.
Just kidding.


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## dougc

What!? "something that won't blow my walls out!!" I think that is exactly what you need. Nice job on the build, I bet they sound awesome.


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## Prof.

Thanks Doug...In my small room that sub would be powerful enough to blow my walls out, it would also loosen my Kidneys!!  I think I need something a little bit smaller!


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## ironglen

Great job Professor! I can definitely tell your enthusiasm with the build :T Thanks for sharing your build and experience with the horn design as it is rather unique. It has definitely piqued my interest, enough that I would consider building a set of three if we move to a home that could use them.


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## Prof.

Thanks very much Glen..
It was a lot of fun building them and the instructions on how to build them (including a cutting list) made it very simple..
I'm now seriously looking at making a subwoofer..using dual 10" drivers in a similar design..


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## ironglen

I used a kit to build a horn subwoofer with a 6.5" driver and it works amazingly well for its size. It is very efficient as well. I think a larger one would be an excellent choice for a sub, if you have the room.


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## Prof.

Yes..that's my biggest problem..trying to design it to give me the correct tube length to match the fs. and have it small enough to fit behind my screen wall!


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## BP1Fanatic

Prof. said:


> http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-speakers/The first box showing the path of the horn..
> [IMG]http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b176/nurhadi/Finniss%20Theatre%20Construction/DSCN1587.jpg


This looks like an offset driver rear loaded horn that can be modeled in Hornresp.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1211856/simple-offset-driver-hornresp-tutorial-how-to-design-your-own-bass-horn


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## BP1Fanatic

Prof. said:


>


This is a tapped horn.
http://http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers-general-discussion/36532-hornresp-dum-hmm-everyone-2.html#axzz2FexcHSot


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## mwmkravchenko

> This looks like an offset driver rear loaded horn that can be modeled in Hornresp.


You are correct.

But the little leg behind the woofer creates a mass loaded situation.

The path length is not really long enough to provide proper horn loading nor is the area dimension behind the woofer small enough as the start of the horn (if it was a true horn).

But it is a mass loaded transmission line. And it does provide a degree of reinforcement, around three decibels. Provides a cleaner sound than a vented enclosure as well.

And if done artfully can provide a bout three db down lower near to the system Fs than a vented enclosure to!

All in all a very promising design.


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## NBPk402

Prof.
Excellent build info! How expensive of a store bought speaker do you think these compete with $500 pair, $1000? Have you thought about making the surrounds out of these too?


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## Prof.

Thanks very much..
You might be interested to read these emails from people who made the horn speakers..
One guy comments about them being as good as his pair of $1200 speakers!
http://www.valutronic.se/email_e.html

I haven't thought about making these for surrounds as well..I'm very happy with my current Krix Tri poles..


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## Dale Rasco

I found a similar design where I could buy the blank cabinets ready to put together from parts express. I am thinking about buying some to do the LCR when I rebuild the theater. Not sure which drivers yet, but I have plenty of time to work it out.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-701


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## Prof.

A couple of things Dale..They're TL's not horns..which is fine if that's what you're after..but they are rear ported which may be a problem if you're planning on placing them behind a screen wall!


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## Dale Rasco

I noticed that after posting it. I know the folded transmission design could be an issue behind the screen wall normally however; I have about a meter distance from the actual wall so it may not be an issue. Just thinking out loud...


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## Prof.

If you have that much space behind the screenwall it shouldn't be a problem..
It's certainly a very good price for a pair of cabinets!


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## Lazerboy2000

Very nice! I have always loved the horn design and would love to build something like this one day. Thanks for posting these keep them coming


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## Prof.

Thanks Lazerboy,
I love the sound from these horns..very clear mid's with nice voice projection and clean highs, with a nice warm deep extended bass..
I still can't get over how little the 3 horn speakers cost!


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## PassingInterest

Prof. said:


> Thanks Lazerboy,
> I love the sound from these horns..very clear mid's with nice voice projection and clean highs, with a nice warm deep extended bass..
> I still can't get over how little the 3 horn speakers cost!


Stop it!
I have enough builds ahead of me already.
Must...Resist...Must...Resist...Well, they do seem really...No...Must...Resist...


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## Prof.

:rofl: It's called DIY disease! There's no hope..Just give in to it! :heehee: :bigsmile:


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## Lazerboy2000

What did you end up paying for those? I've tried reading the website you linked but it hurts my mind trying to understand it. Terrible web design!


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## Prof.

The 3 speaker kits cost $380.00AUD including shipping from Sweden!


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## kanke

Hello, I hope you don't mind me posting on this thread, but I was inspired by your project and decided to build a pair of these. They were finished a few weeks ago and I have been listening to them quite a lot. They sound exciting, I must say that. The tonal balance is maybe not the most neutral, but the bass kicks nicely. They sound "fun". I have a small apartment, and maybe these are a bit overkill (but if its worth doing, its worth overdoing), I think they would work even better in a slightly bigger room. Have to test that at some point...

Physically, they are quite big. Maybe the biggest effect comes from the height, I think they are almost a foot taller than a normal compact hifi-speaker (which you can see on the right in the picture).

Here is a pic, I used 16mm (5/8 inches) plywood for the construction. Everything else is according to the instructions. I did not paint them at all, I just put varnish on the surface. The TV is 40", for comparison.









https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4201218/IMG_0090.JPG


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## ironglen

Welcome to the Shack!

Nice work. I take it they replaced the smaller bookshelf nearby in the the picture, so you must have much greater low-end response.


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## Prof.

They look very impressive in your room! :T

You'll find that they get even smoother the more you use them..
I've had mine operating every night since I built them..They have been hammered with loud explosions,
thunderous roars and screaming jet engines..from numerous movie tracks..and they're still going strong and they sound great!..
The bass/mid driver is matched perfectly to the tweeter and gives a very smooth transition between the two..
You'll like them even more, the more you use them..:bigsmile:


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## kanke

Prof. said:


> They look very impressive in your room! :T
> 
> You'll find that they get even smoother the more you use them..
> I've had mine operating every night since I built them..They have been hammered with loud explosions,
> thunderous roars and screaming jet engines..from numerous movie tracks..and they're still going strong and they sound great!..
> The bass/mid driver is matched perfectly to the tweeter and gives a very smooth transition between the two..
> You'll like them even more, the more you use them..:bigsmile:


Yeah, they seem to open up the more I listen to them. I forgot to mention, I did not include the power protection component in the speakers at all, I think I will never exceed the 30 Watts in my small apartment... although the VH-1's seem to really become alive once you turn the volume high enough. It is nice when the sound stays very clean even at high volumes and bass-heavy material, something that smaller speakers can rarely achieve.

There is a bare plywood surface directly behind the bass/mid driver, and I think there might be some sound wave reflections coming from that surface to the driver, which can disturb its proper operation. I think I will try to put some kind of a piece of wool or dampening on that surface, to see if it has an effect on the sound. I know that the dampening can affect the proper operation of the horn principle, but I still want to test it.

ironglen: Yes, they replaced the bookshelf speakers that are visible in the picture.


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## Prof.

I did put the overload protection device in my speakers, but it has never tripped even at constant high levels, so you should be OK..

I also initially thought about adding some dampening material on the panel immediately in front of the driver, but with all the horn loaded speakers designs I've seen, no of them have that..The driver fires straight onto the timber..
I left it as it was and it seems fine..


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## ranbunctious

The absolute KING of folded horns is Cerwin Vega, especially the Earthquake series. They were first used in the old 'sensoround' movies like Earthquake, Roller Coaster, and Midway. They had to stop using them because some of the older movie theaters were losing bricks. I built my own box using 18" older Vegas and could not be happier using it for bass guitar. 300 watts RMS will really stress the house. There are many folded horn empty boxes available on the net from many brand names. Be sure & read the reviews.


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## NBPk402

I am going to be making my 2 car garage into a HT and I am thinking about these for the speakers... I currently have Paradigm 80s for the front and I like the sound but I am thinking of using the current setup in our MB. Has anyone checked to see what the efficiency is on these? I am contemplating a 11.2 setup with 11 of these and then 2 horn loaded subs (for the really deep). I am thinking that since I am using my Denon 4520ci with Audessy that tonality will not be important... Is this correct to assume? I am also thinking that a high dollar speaker setup will not be needed for TV/Movie usage... Hence the DIY.


tia,


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## Gasman

Hello Prof, I am new to the forum but have been very interested in the DIY projects and am particularly excited about your VH1 horn project. I am looking at constructing the speakers out of 3/4 inch stock but am not sure if this will affect the characteristics of the speaker. As well, you used a 3rd tower as a centre channel but I would like a horizontal centre as I am not set up for an AT screen. Do you have any suggestions for a horizontal horn based cc? BTW do you have a pic of how you wired the back of the tower, i.e., how your connections exit the back of the speaker. Thanks and cheers on the build!

Sorry late entry, but I was looking a larger plan of a 7.2 system. Any suggestions for matched surrounds? I thought of a horn-based sub but one step at a time. thanks again


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## Prof.

You could construct the cabinets from 3/4 timber, although it isn't necessary..
Using a horizontal centre speaker is going to be a problem..Any such horizontal horn type speaker..like a Klipsch horn is going to give a totally different tonality to the VH1's..bearing in mind that the VH1's are horn based from the mid frequencies down to low bass frequencies..
Speakers like the Klipsch only use the horn drivers from mid to high frequencies..

There are others on the forum who have had more experience with horns, so they might be able to suggest something..

I used these terminals for my speaker connections..I just cut out a section about half way up the back and passed the wires through and connected them to the terminal block..The terminal block comes with a gasket, so it's all sealed very well..



Matching the side surrounds to the horns is not so important and any good quality speaker, whether it be mono, bipole or dipole will be fine..
The sub on the other hand must be a horn design to balance the tonality and front sound stage..


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## Gasman

Thanks so much for the quick response! I thought the centre might be a problem. I may have to rethink my own HT design as i really like the simplicity and efficiency of the horn. I haven't heard an example yet but the cost of this system seems worth the risk and for a first build, it seems relatively simple.

Cheers


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## Prof.

Gasman said:


> I may have to rethink my own HT design as i really like the simplicity and efficiency of the horn.


If at all possible I would highly recommend it!..
If your room is big enough and you obviously have DIY skills, then build a screen wall and place 3 VH1's behind it..along with a horn sub..
Then make yourself an AT screen for a very cheap price ( in comparison to buying one) and you'll have a very good setup..That's what I did..


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## Gasman

Thanks Prof! 

To the readership at large, I have contacted valutronic.se a couple of times and have had no response. I don't think I'm being too impatient. The website is still up but not sure now if they still supply kits. They do allude to a supply so long as the drivers are available. In any case, I am still very much interested in this project and my preference is to try this without going to a full range driver. Do I have a good reason, not really just that there are lots of options with the single driver and wanted to play a bit and maybe add more of a challenge for me. 

I have looked at some alternate drivers and found that high sensitivity woofers with an extended range seem uncommon. I have found one by DA, PM220, 8" with freq 43-10kHz, sens 95dB, Fs 43Hz. It seems as close to the bill as I have seen. The SEAS exotic 8 is simply too $. A TechTalk forum had some concerns over the inconsistent response with the DA above 2.5kHz. Sorry I tried to attach the response curve but no luck. They did allude that a crossover should be set around 1.5-2kHz. 

Which presents the tweeter. I had looked at a Fountek 3.5CD ribbon or conversely a couple of soft domes: DA DC28FS or RS28F. or TB 28-537SH. It appears that they can be xo at 1.5kHz. 

Being somewhat of a noob in this I defer to those (which is most of you) who have much more knowledge and ask: are these reasonable choices for this project? If not, any suggestions how I should proceed? Your input is greatly appreciated. Thanks


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## Prof.

Hi Gasman,

I don't think you'll find a suitable replacement for the bass/mid driver..
The cabinet has been designed for a driver with a very high Qts. of 1.00..Most 8" bass drivers have a lower Qts..
I'm surprised that you're having trouble contacting Valutronic..I first sent a query concerning the supplying of a 3 speaker kit system, which they responded to quite quickly and then sent my order..
Even if the drivers are not available at the moment, they should still respond to your email..
I can only suggest that you keep trying..

I presume it's Valutronic and not Valutronics (two different organizations) that you're contacting..


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## Gasman

You are probably correct as to the replacement drivers. I utilized the email link supplied on the site to contact them, sorry if I gave impression of contacting an alternate address. Yes my first enquiry was a general one in regard to kits for 3 cabs and their cost. Did you send your payment or PayPal info with the enquiry? No reply and have emailed again. No luck as of yet. Maybe they are out xmas shopping. 

DA has suggested the use of the PM220 in a variety of horn based designs. Any thoughts on this utilization with a matched folded horn based on T-S parameters? I'm not stuck on this driver, just wondering.


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## Prof.

After I ordered the kits, they sent me an invoice with costs and freight charges and I think I payed for it through PayPal..
The DA PM 220 has a very low Qts., so It would have to be matched to a different horn design..

If you don't hear from Valutronic in the next few days, I can give you the model numbers for the Monacor drivers and the name of a European supplier..They don't have the same model number for the bass/mid listed at the moment but I'm sure that they could get it in for you..They also ship worldwide..


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## Gasman

Stefan did get back to me, I guess Sweden also got a big storm that delayed his reply. He was very helpful. I have placed an order for the 3 kits including a dual cc. Thanks prof for the help. I am so looking forward to this build. I won't likely get started till the new year though, just a busy time of the year.


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## Prof.

Good to hear that Stefan finally replied..He's obviously still in business!

I haven't blown any speakers yet..which is quite a miracle in itself! (since they are such low wattage)..so good to know if that should happen I can get them from him..

Glad to have helped..I'll look forward to seeing your build in the new year..


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## Gasman

Merry Christmas Prof! I've received my drivers and all is in order. Yay! I was just reviewing the instructions and noted that they only require felt damping on one side panel. Yet on your build you have also lined the back panel. Any reason? Just wanted your thoughts before I start my build. Thanks and have a happy new year.


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## Prof.

Hi Gasman,

Good to hear your drivers have arrived and in fairly quick time it would seem..
The drawing I have of the VH-1 shows the lining on the top, back and one side..which is what I did..
Doesn't you drawing show the same thing? If not I'll PM a copy to you..
All the best for the new year..


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## Gasman

Hi prof, the drawing I have only shows the side view, but the description only indicates putting felt on the one side. I would appreciate if you could pm your drawing. I can't access the website as it is under reconstruction. Btw did you use any specific felt. Fabric stores here only carry small craft pieces and acoustic felt from Madisound looks pricey. Did you use adhesive-backed felt, if not what did you use to glue it. Thanks again.


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## Prof.

Gasman..The only drawing I have just shows the side view as well..I'll PM it to you just in case it's different..
The instructions that came with the drawing do say to just put felt on one side..I think the reason for that is to just to have minimal dampening in the flow path..

I also had difficulty in finding suitable felt..I think he specified a thickness of 4-8mm. and I couldn't find any craft type felt thick enough or large enough..
The thicker larger sheets are quite expensive from specialist suppliers, but I found some 6mm. thick black felt on eBay at about half the price of anything else..
One side of the felt was quite smooth so I just used some glue like "Liquid Nails" to bond it to the MDF..It stuck well..


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## Prof.

Hi Gasman..
Any further progress on your speaker build?


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## Gasman

Hi prof thanks for thinking about me! Hope you had a good holiday season. True this has been a slow start. I am about to place an order for 18mm Baltic birch. I worked the speaker volume to be 96L using simple dimensions on the original design with 5/8" mdf. With the bb it will be 93L, a little more than 3%. Stefan cautioned on the volume difference to be less than 10%. So I think I am good. I want to put grills on so have been searching others designs and will go with a simple mdf frame covered in black acoustic cloth and fixed by rare earth magnets. Excited about that! I will post here when I start or should I start a new thread?


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## Gasman

Sorry I was posting volume based on memory. Original design is 99L vs 96L


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## Prof.

You're welcome to keep posting here..Keeping the same design in the one thread will help anyone else looking to build these horns..
That's a good idea about covering the speakers with grill cloth..particularly if they're going to be out in the open..I didn't have to bother with grill cloth coverings as mine are behind the AT screen..

It still amazes me how much power these things can handle! several times I felt sure the speakers would blow with the level of sound they were producing..
I grit my teeth every time I watch "Pacific Rim" or "Battleship"!! expecting a speaker to land in my lap!! ..But they just keep soldiering along! The Germans sure know how to make a solid speaker!! 

I'll look forward to seeing some pics of your build soon..


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## Gasman

Ok I will continue here. I placed my lumber order and will have it delivered next week. I'm very much looking forward to listening to these! I have some ideas for the centre channel and will post to see if I can make this work. I'll get all cut first and finish the R/L channels. Have a good weekend!


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## Gasman

Ok, a longggggggggg winter here, coldest in one hundred years apparently. I have finally started the build and will post pics as soon as I can figure it out.


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## Prof.

Good to hear you're continuing with the build Gasman..I look forward to seeing your progress..


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## Gasman

I set up my work area in the garage. I needed a table to receive the cut lumber so put together a makeshift table. Yes, those are tires with a sheet of 3/4 inch ply on top. 

 

Feeding the sheets through on my own was perhaps not the best move :nono:
In retrospect I could have made the rough cuts on the floor with a circular saw resting on 2x4's. Then put the smaller sheets through the table saw. Oh well.


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## Gasman

Got everything cut, tried to ensure that all the sheets were lined up using a carpenter's square before I clamped them for the final cuts. 

 

On the front pieces I started the layout for the drivers.

 

 

The holes were cut with a plunge router, 1/4 inch bit and a circle jig. I had to convert the metric measurements to imperial rounding to the nearest 16th inch. 

 

 

 

 

 

Once the holes were cut I used a jig saw to cut out the "ears" for the tweeter connections.


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## Prof.

I had the same problem..trying to cut the sheets on my own! 
I finished up getting the timber supplier to cut the sheets to width and I just docked them off to length..


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## Gasman

I centred the speakers and drilled pilot holes

 

 


 

Here is a pic of the drivers. As Prof has said, they are German made, Monacor.


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## Gasman

Ya, I just wasn't thinking and believed that I could get it done with the table saw. After was said and done, I spoke to a salesman from Lee Valley and said I should have just laid them down on 2x4's and did rough cuts with circular saw, about 1/2-1 inch wider than needed so lots of leeway for the finish cuts. Then he pointed out their Festool system....
...and for the low low price of $1500 Cdn, I could avoid all this as the saw and guide rest on top of the sheet and easily handle sizes >8ft. The cuts are all finish cuts right from the beginning. Anyway, nice system but not gonna happen anytime soon here.

Glueing next...

 

Used Titebond III, worked well but I have no basis of comparison as have not used any other brands

 

I used one of the cutouts from the tweeter as a block for my clamp

 

 

I measured out the 150mm from the centre of the woofer, interior dimension, as a point to draw the diagonal where the reflector would lie. 

 

Because the back is seated against the top I used a turnbuckle to apply sufficient pressure to pull the boards together. 

 

Upcoming... ....the top and bottom reflectors need to be placed. I haven't placed the bottom as I am changing this up a bit. On the diagram, the sides extend below the bottom to make the feet for the speaker. Mine will all be flush and the base will be 2 layers of 3/4 ply glued and extend abt 5cm around the perimeter to give a wide base.


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## Prof.

Looking very good Gasman..:T

I made my bottoms flush as well..Extending the sides to act as feet is fine on timber floors, but not good on carpet if you want to move them around..

Is the Titebond a polyurethane ( expansive glue ) or just a normal PVA wood glue?
Have you had any problems with the ply warping?


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## Gasman

Hi Prof! That's for sure! I also like the look of a massive base. The titebond is a PVA glue. As for warpage, one of the sheets had a slight bend in it that required some muscling the board with clamps to get it straight. This is my first build and getting all the pieces exactly flush is somewhat a challenge. Again I think some of this is because if trying to cut large sheets to size. I may try a trim bit on the router to match edges. Any thoughts?


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## Prof.

Using PVA glue is not a good idea..It doesn't completely spread evenly and can leave gaps which will cause air leaks..
To save a lot of time and hassle later.. trying to correct any air leaks.. I would suggest you use a product called "No More Gaps" ( if that's available where you are) or similar product..
You just run the gap filler around all your joints to give a completely sealed joint..

Yeah..that's the problem with ply.As soon as you cut the large sheets it will warp..That's why I used MDF..
All you can do is securely brace and clamp the panels while the glue sets..I would avoid any trimming if possible..


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## Gasman

Arrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh! Say it ain't so! I heard such good things about it and have seen it used in other posts so thought it would be a good choice. Oh well, it's done. Gorilla glue is an expanding glue but not sure if appropriate. It does work for wood. I haven't seen No More Gaps but will check, thanks.


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## slyons

Gasman,

I wouldn't worry to much about air leaks in a ported enclosure such as this. I would however recommend that you place a bead of glue in the corner after its clamped and push it into the corner with your finger. This will push the glue into any potential leakage areas, be as liberal as needed. Of course if your joints are bad and the sheets are very poorly cut, the glue won't be sufficient. If the former is the case use caulk adhesive in the corners to seal the joints. 

Again, in a ported enclosure air leaks, due to air pressure, isn't much of an issue compared to a sealed enclosure.


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## Gasman

Slyons, thanks for the help. The joints aren't that bad but you know when you spend the time and you just want to not make mistakes. I have sealed the joints and will use gorilla glue on the rest. Thanks again!


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## Gasman

Ok, sorry for the slow going. So next got the damping done. I used 6mm poly felt, it was actually tough to find especially in a large enough quantity. Lots of craft felt but in small pieces and could have ordered online. 

 

Used a hot glue gun to secure the felt and placed as in the instruction; on one side and contiguous top and back.


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## Gasman

I have squared the bases so perfectly matching and drilled holes for the feet/spikes. I used the Dayton spikes from PE. They are 1 1/2" in from corners, used the 5/16" bit and marked the bit so I would avoid being overzealous with the holes.


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## Gasman

I placed the wiring inside the cabinets and glued the last side. Used Gorilla Glue on these.

 

I'll be out of town till next week so will get back at then. I haven't decided as to the finish. Either a charcoal stain with a black base or all black. I thought I would use a matte urethane cover coat. If I stain I'll do the base separate from the cabinets. I have a Zinser Bin shellac based primer that I will use for the painted section. I'm keen to do the painting as I want to try a spray gun. Anyone have any thoughts as to the type of paint? I have heard many people using automotive paints and if so I am not sure what would be a suitable primer for the BB.


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## Prof.

Looking very good Gasman! :T Only two more to go!..


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## Gasman

Hey Prof, thanks! Actually, the other is clamped as well.  For the centre channel I will have to wait till I have a place to put it. We are having a basement reno and am not sure if it will meet the approval of the household in general. :dontknow: It will be a big box! Pretty sure I will make that out of MDF though.


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## Prof.

Am I reading this right? You're making a different speaker for the centre!?


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## Gasman

Hi Prof, when I got the kits, I got RL channels and 2 bass drivers and a single tweeter. The challenge was gonna be how to configure this. I don't have, nor will likely have a projector and audio transparent screen. So I had to think of a horizontally positioned speaker. To have it symmetrical I would build 2 boxes connected top to top with vents at each end and laid horizontal. To have the tweeter center it would sit in the middle of the 2 connecting top plates and make sealing the cabinets a problem. I thought I would place the tweeter outside, top and centre. I haven't worked out that detail yet but thought it would be enclosed within a smaller enclosure contiguous with the long box. Does that make sense? I understand that there would be potential issues if I had 2 tweeters, hence the single.


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## Gasman

Btw, thought I might need to consider boarding the pooch, but you're a little far.


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## Prof.

Sorry Gasman..I had assumed that you were building 3 horns to go behind an AT screen..
Generally speaking it's not advisable to use a different type of speaker system across the front (sealed or ported) with horn speakers..
I can see the need for a horizontal speaker for the centre if this is going to be under a TV..


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## Prof.

Gasman said:


> Btw, thought I might need to consider boarding the pooch, but you're a little far.


That would be a VERY expensive boarding for your dog!! :rofl:


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## Gasman

It's the same speaker, just 2 of them joined at the top


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## Gasman

Got that right! But looks like you have a bit of land for them to roam. Boo would have fun!


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## Prof.

Gasman said:


> It's the same speaker, just 2 of them joined at the top


So if I understand you correctly, you're making two horn speaker boxes..joined top to top, laid horizontally
and using one tweeter?
If that's the case, it's going to be a VERY long centre speaker!


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## Prof.

Gasman said:


> Got that right! But looks like you have a bit of land for them to roam. Boo would have fun!


Yeah..and plenty of rabbits, foxes and kangaroo's for him to chase!


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## Gasman

Hahahahaha, ya it will be long! Mark K suggested this configuration on an earlier post, to get a matched horn. 
I just don't know if it will pass muster. I may be looking at a different build for the HT and reserve these for audio. For now just looking forward to getting them done and spending some time in front of them. 
She is certainly a hunter. We have lots of squirrels and rabbits. Hard to let her take out the local wildlife in the middle of the city. But if she had her way....


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## Prof.

Hey Gasman..Any updates?


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## Gasman

Hi Prof! Sorry for the delay, life happens I guess. Since I last posted we have been preparing for my daughter's high school grad. We are almost done the events.  I have got a little more done. I have done some of the sanding and am really pleased in the look of the Baltic Birch. I have bevelled the front edges. 

 

 



...but that's as far as I have come. We also started a reno of the basement so my garage workshop has miraculously been transformed into a storage locker. :sob:

 

I have luckily left space at the back and access via a narrow aisle so I can open the garage door and finish them outside, pending weather. That won't happen for a bit. I need to bevel the base edges and attach them. I have the t-nuts in place for the feet. Then stain and I think matte varnish. I was hoping to spray the latter but my compressor just died today changing wheels. We'll see. Thanks for asking and hope to update in the not too distant future.


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## Prof.

Looking very good..The bevelled edges on the face finishes it off nicely..:T
What colour stain are you thinking of using?


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## Gasman

It will be SamaN black (www.saman.ca), water-based stain. It was a recommendation of a local wood supplier that caterers to woodworkers. I have a gloss varnish but I would prefer either a matte or a satin finish I think.


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## Prof.

That stain looks to be a very easy application..
I would personally go for a satin finish..Looks good and not too much reflection..


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## Gasman

Hello again, finally got the basement Reno complete. The garage has given back to its previous purpose and I am back to working on the speakers. The bases are on and have stained and started the varnish. I will send pics and detail as soon as able.


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## Prof.

Hi Gasman..I thought we had lost you there for a minute!
Looking forward to seeing the the updated pics..


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## Gasman

Hi, am back. I've bevelled the edges. Here is a closer look.

 

The staining didn't go as expected. One it didn't go on as evenly as expected and, two, sanding initially was a little over zealous 

 

 

Worse this occurred after starting the varnish. So I simply made it solid black with the stain. So ended up being solid black with wood grain.

 


Probably this was for the best as the stain had a yellow tone where the grain came through. Not what I wanted. And in retrospect I would bleach the wood first as I wanted grey tones. 

The bases were added, glued and screwed and finished with the rest of the cabinets.

 

 

 

Anyway, I sanded between coats of water-based polyurethane, 400 grit waterproof paper; 5 coats.


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## Gasman

After the last sanding I hand rubbed the cabinets with 0000 steel wool and paste wax.

 

 

I carefully brought these puppies into the basement for wiring. New basement reno and new speakers, just didn't want either damaged. 

Soldered the speakers and posts, and installed

 

 

Lastly, I installed the Dayton spikes, got them in black

 

I liked this pic as it gave a good idea of the satin finish

 

Here they are in the new "theatre"

 

Where I am currently is running a dedicated Mac mini through a Schitt (pronounced the way you think  ) Gungnir DAC. The rest is an Oppo player, Xbox One ($100 off on Boxing Day!), cable box, all through a Pioneer Elite SC-68 AV receiver. 

 

The room has been pre-wired for subs and rear channels. I have a component stand in the works, which will be front and centre, the centre channel will sit there. 

I haven't done any testing yet nor run any room calibration, but first impressions are good. Admittedly it was a little scary firing these up the first time. So far I'm happy with their sound. I'll get around soon hopefully to testing, etc. I actually haven't watched a BD movie yet, my daughter has usurped the space so my time seems to be limited.


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## Prof.

They look great Gasman..Very nicely done! :TT
Certainly a better finish than I did on mine, but mine are behind the screen so it was needed..

Something to consider when looking at subs..Ideally they should be a horn system as well..
Horns with ported or sealed subs don't go well together..
I built my own horn sub and love it!..It only has an 8" driver also, but it will vibrate the floor and walls on movies with good bass!!.. :hsd:


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## Gasman

Hey Prof, thanks so much! I have looked into many options for subs and bought the plans for bill fitzmaurice's ttls last summer. I just don't have room for anything else. I was quite happy to see you liked yours quite a bit. I have received all the components and they're waiting to be put together. Also got the 8" sub from DA. Btw, my plan to make a horizontal centre with the voight horn will have to be shelved. It will simply be too big. Not sure at this point what I will do. I damaged a lead on one of the tweeters, is there a way to salvage? Basically broke off. As I had a third cuz if the centre project I could still complete the build. Any thoughts?


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## Dr Who

Hi

I read on Valutronic homepage the Stefan recommends good quality 16mm Chipboard.
He states that MDF can give a bad resonans in the midrange area.
Stefan and some customers have made a listening of these speakers test using MDF and Chipboard and have come to the conclusion that MDF is not suited for these speakers.

I have built the VH-1 8 years ago using MDF, I chose MDF because it's easier to paint etc.

Stefan's information on the chipboard was found under the SQ50 studio monitor , so I do not know if this applies to the VH-1


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