# Ypao And Ypao R.s.c Difference And Advanced Configuration



## J19801110

Hi guys,

I've written a blog article about YPAO and YPAO R.S.C. if you're interested. There isn't a lot of information on the internet or forums about it and some of it is pretty misguided. Please read it, share it and comment if you like. I hope it will add value to those who are considering buying a Yamaha receiver or already have one and wonder about manually configuring YPAO. I have not provided evidence for all statements, but I have been in conversation with Yamaha Japan over the last few weeks while doing TONS of measurements on the RX-V3073 (RX-A3020 equivalent). The findings have been published without wait. Please ask any questions if anything is unclear or you'd like the measurement graphs. I'll be happy to provide any further information.

Please note that I don't describe the filters as either FIR or IIR filters. I think it's pretty irrelevant for the purpose of the article but happy to discuss technicalities on this forum if people are so inclined.

http://simplehomecinema.com/2014/10/09/yamaha-ypao-and-ypao-r-s-c-advanced-topic/

I hope you enjoy reading and get something new. Feedback is welcome and appreciated. :bigsmile:

Thanks,

RJ


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## Peter Loeser

Welcome to the forum RJ. FYI - the link to your article is broken.

YPAO is definitely a topic of interest here at HTS and we would love for you to share your research here. We love to see graphs! In fact, here is a recent thread related to the topic of YPAO: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...hing-up-sloooooooooooooooowly-but-surely.html


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## J19801110

and so it is. Thank you, Peter. It has been corrected. 

RJ


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## J19801110

Having re-read the article in the light of day, there are certain areas that I will make more precise. For example, it is ok to use boosting filters with a low Q to bring up areas of the spectrum where all listening positions experience this dip. A high Q boosting filter always produced artefacts for some listening positions, though, severity dependent on the source material. A simple frequency sweep is not telling the whole story so critical listening is needed.


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## Peter Loeser

Nice thorough article - well done. Thanks again for sharing. There are always discussions here about room correction and EQ so feel free to jump in and offer your thoughts and advice!


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## J19801110

Thanks, Peter. Will do 
There is more to come. I'd like to write an article about Yamaha Cinema DSP and it's different versions. I think it's also fascinating and if properly configured, re-creates the cinema feel at home rather accurately.


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## J19801110

I have written a follow-up article if anyone is interested:

http://simplehomecinema.com/2014/11/14/yamaha-ypao-r-s-c-take-two-advanced-topic/


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## chrisreeves

Thanks for the articles - especially the Cinema DSP one - there is very little information about this online.


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## FargateOne

Hello,
I am a beginner in using YPAO. I read a lot and tried to learn but need to confirm some questions. I know that YPAO does not eq the sub (20hz to 200hz). My room is little ( 1 330 cube feet for 15'4'' length, 11'6'' width 7'6'' heigth) and the TV is on the long wall. I also did the best to put the sub correctly.
I have 2 questions.

1- YPAO on "flat" settings always correct the front rigth channel using 3 or 2 bandwiths among the 7 available to correct the same 125hz frequency but with differents "Q" (0.627 and 0.79 and 2.0) and gains (+.5, +1.5 and + 4.0). Is a PEQ can put 3 corrections at the same frquency? I did not know that possible from what I have read. How does it work ?

2- I can not for the moment begin with REW EQ and can not invest a lot of monney in room eq. Does equalize the 20-200hz frequencies in the sub with a plug and play device worth it (Antimode or other)? In other words, will it help YPAO to do a better job for the other frequencies for the other channel ?
Thank for your help.


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## J19801110

Could you please tell us which yamaha receiver you have? Once we know that, we can say if it does sub EQ or not.

Regardless, a lot can be achieved by playing with the placement of your sub. Please look up the subwoofer crawl test on Google. There are a lot of articles on it so I won't describe it here. Even without an EQ, you can position your sub in an ideal location and see if you need EQ after that or you're happy with the results.

To answer your other question, sure you can place more than one PEQ on the same frequency. The amplitudes (dBs) will add or cancel each other out, just like a simple addition or subtraction.

I recommend you experiment with microphone and speaker locations to see what gives you the best results. It is difficult to say without knowing your listening environment. 

Are there other EQ solutions that will give you better results? Sure. Are they worth the money? Only your ears can say.


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## FargateOne

J19801110 said:


> Could you please tell us which yamaha receiver you have? Once we know that, we can say if it does sub EQ or not.
> 
> Regardless, a lot can be achieved by playing with the placement of your sub. Please look up the subwoofer crawl test on Google. There are a lot of articles on it so I won't describe it here. Even without an EQ, you can position your sub in an ideal location and see if you need EQ after that or you're happy with the results.
> 
> To answer your other question, sure you can place more than one PEQ on the same frequency. The amplitudes (dBs) will add or cancel each other out, just like a simple addition or subtraction.
> 
> I recommend you experiment with microphone and speaker locations to see what gives you the best results. It is difficult to say without knowing your listening environment.
> 
> Are there other EQ solutions that will give you better results? Sure. Are they worth the money? Only your ears can say.


Hello,
I think that my system is in my profile (left corner here, click white arrow) is there. I know that Yam RX-V773 does not EQ the sub. I have YPAO only (not R.S.C)
Thanks to reply.
I am new in this forum and hope that I do no wrong beeing in 2 threads at a time. "Littlejohn74" kindly made suggestions (and I thank him) while I was searching for the best place to ask; maybe it is here.
As you can see from my post here I made some measurements (I mistakenly copy twice the same graph, sorry)

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...r-review-discussion-thread-3.html#post1128265

I did many experiments before bothering real people here and I think that I find the best place or compromise for my sub. 
Is the graph makes sens for experts here? I am too green to be sure. I interpreted it like a good bass response from my room mode in connection with my sub placement.
For the moment I am not sure that I can begin with REW Eq and try to evaluate if a sub EQ device (as kindly suggested by Littlejohn74) would improve the whole thing .
Any help will be very appreciated.


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## FargateOne

OK I complete my last post. Here the second mesurements where the only one change is the crossover in the receiver was set to 90hz. For each one the target level was 75dB from 20hz to 250hz







Any comments would be greatly appreciated


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## FargateOne

Hello there,
I know that I am a newbee but I thought that my graphs could get some comments. 
If those are useless please tell me so it will be either way helpfull for to fine an other way (REW Eq wizard need a laptop and much much free time that I do not have for the moment)
Thanks for your help...someone!


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## Peter Loeser

Sorry, I somehow missed the last few posts. You mentioned the YPAO results using three filters at 125Hz, and in your graph there is an obvious dip in response. It's likely that there is a room mode or boundary reflection interference there. Are you able to move your speakers out from the wall some? If so, try taking measurements at different distances from the wall and see if the response improves. If the dip is related to room acoustics you won't be able to correct it with EQ. A higher or lower sub crossover setting may help too.


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## FargateOne

Peter Loeser said:


> Sorry, I somehow missed the last few posts. You mentioned the YPAO results using three filters at 125Hz, and in your graph there is an obvious dip in response. It's likely that there is a room mode or boundary reflection interference there. Are you able to move your speakers out from the wall some? If so, try taking measurements at different distances from the wall and see if the response improves. If the dip is related to room acoustics you won't be able to correct it with EQ. A higher or lower sub crossover setting may help too.


Thank you.
My front speakers are at 18 inches from the wall (measured from the wall to the front face of the speaker). Also my sub is between the center and the right front speaker, at 34 inches from the wall (to avoid the first axial standing wave from the width of my room)

I can not go further but I could push them nearer to the wall. I think that it will increase the problem, is it not ?

I should also receive in a couple of days a used antimode dual core 2.0 to Eq the sub only. I understand in a certain way it could do little adjustments to the dip (if it is not a complete null) Am I right ?


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## Peter Loeser

I would recommend measuring your speakers at a few different distances from the wall, to confirm the effects of positioning on the null. If it is being caused by cancellation due to reflections, EQ won't do much to fix it. I checked your previous posts but I can't remember if you have installed any acoustic treatment in your room. That should be your first step.


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## FargateOne

Thank you.
I will try and come back with results. About acoustic treatment...I am not sure that it will get the high counsel approuval...!?


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## Peter Loeser

FargateOne said:


> About acoustic treatment...I am not sure that it will get the high counsel approuval...!?


Understood! You're not alone.


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## FargateOne

Hello,
Measures with SPL Galaxy CM-140 (5dB added to readings for 20hz,25 and 31,5 hz and 3 db added for 40 and 50hz to compensate the lack of calibration of the mic. ), cd test tones 1/3 octaves, 75dB at 50hz, YPAO Direct, receiver crossover 100hz, 








Same procedure for measurements but with Anti-mode Dual core 2.0 for eq my one sub.








Any comment would help.

Anti-Mode does a very good job for the picks. The sound is different. But I still need more experiments to blend the eq of the sub and the Eq done afterward with YPAO for the 5 channels. 

Also, the graphic in the Anti-mode screen shows a drop of -16db at 82 hz and an other of approx -10dB at 164 hz. Is it compatible with the measurements above ?

Since, I can not move forward my fronts, is moving backward could help to fill those "null". For me, nearer the wall, it will raise low FR in the same proportions; in other words, the null will be deeper ? is'nt it ?

Many thanks for your suggestion (about anti-mode) and your help.


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## FargateOne

Hello,
no comments on my graphs? Here are my findings since then.

I ran 3 room measurements with Anti-mode DC for 3 different sub positionings. Moving the sub backward of 12 inch get me rid of the deep dip at 75hz and let only 2 dips, one at 125hz and an other at 147hz. 
After EQuing with Anti-mode, I checked more closely L/R speakers placement, toe in and distance.
I ran YPAO, microphone 8 positions, MLP + 3 inches left, right and up and the others 4 positions at 10 inches forming an imaginary box around the MLP.

WOW !
Sounds stage and Image came into focus, dialog improved immensely, and rear surround effects now played a role. I felt so much more immersed in the movie experience maybe a little at the frequence response expense. This point needs to be confirm after a couple of hours listening session.

My question.
Anti-mode indicates that the show the upper limit of most important frequency range in terms of room correction was 157hz.

If I set the LPF in the receiver to 100hz (which seems to my ears the best instead of 80hz as YPAO gives, speakers all set to SMALL), would it be a good idea (better results, sound etc) to fix the upper frequency limit of the automatic calibration with Anti-mode DC 2.0 at 100hz?

Thank for your help.


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