# Panasonic VX300 Series Q&A



## gimp

About this thread
The purpose of this thread is to provide information about the Panasonic TH-65VX300U.

Product Information

2011-10-08: TH-65VX300U official Panasonic product page.
2011-09-10: Official model designation: TH-65VX300U
Reports & Reviews

2011-11-06: D-Nice comments. Source. Source. Source. Source.
2011-11-03: Initial VE calibration results.
2011-09-30: Panasonic has decided not to participate in the shoot-out with the TH-65VX300 Professional monitor.
2011-09-20: HD Guru... CEDIA Part II.
2011-09-08: Panasonic TH-65VX300U Plasma Display Preview.
Background Information

Plasma technology terms & definitions. Useful for having clear, in-depth discussion.
2011-02-19: FlatpanelsHD's Q&A with Panasonic representatives on the new 2011 models (particularly the European versions).
2011-03-15: Phil Hinton's report of touring Panasonic manufacturing and engineering facilities in Japan, posted at AV Forums.
Marketplace
*Manufacturer Suggested Retail Prices?*
$6,250 suggested retail. Source.

*When are they available?*
Available now. 

*Where can I buy one?*
These are sold through the pro division to distributors; no direct dealer sales. Distributors sell them to broadcasters and pre/post production houses. Value Electronics started shipping October 28, 2011. Source.

*What is the difference between VX Series Home Cinema Displays and the BT Series?*
The TH-42BT300ER and TH-50BT300ER are specifically for the broadcast/master house sector where the VX series is specific to the custom install sector. The BT300 series will also have a slew of production features such as independent RGB on/off, H/V delay to look at blanking intervals, waveform monitor, aspect ratio markers, L/R images in split screen to color correct 3D content in 2D, etc. The VX300 will be much like the VX200's but will also include the advanced drive technology for double the gradations like BT300. However, it will not have the production features that BT300 has. Source. Source.

*Are these monitors like the VX200 series?*
No speakers or tuners and has many options for different video input card configurations, like dual DVI for stereoscopic inputs and various ways to control the stereo images, l/r side by side, l/l or r/r side by side or one at at a time, etc. Source.

General Physical

*What sizes will be available?*
Available only in 65". Source.

*What bezel design is employed?*
Matte black bezel that is thicker than the consumer TVs. Source.

*Will the VX300 have an extra pane of glass?*
No. Source.


VX300 Picture Technology

*What are the differences between the VX200 and VX300 Series?*
Bi-level drive technology* smoothly displays dark areas
Improving the luminous efficiency of the panel has achieved steady illumination even with a small electrical discharge. By reducing the minimum unit of brightness per flash by 1/2 compared to previous panels, this makes it possible to display finer gradation steps. Smoother tonal expression is gained in dark areas thanks to a total of 12,288 steps, twice the number of our conventional models (compared with the VX100 Series).

* Valid for Cinema mode and Monitor mode.
Source.

New video processing chip set is greatly upgraded. Source.

*Will the VX300 have the faster-decaying phosphors we see in the VT30?*
Unanswered [Loves2Watch says "My new VX200 has the fastest decay rate I have ever seen in any display, no visible trails of any kind..."]. Source.

*What sort of improvements does this panel offer that could be in the 2012 line?*
None. Source.

*Is it true that unlike the VT30 series the VX300 has no 10pt white balance and gamma?*
Gotchaa says no 10pt white balance and gamma but there is hope it will be included in the final FW. Source. Source.

*How do black levels compare?*

Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD - 0.0004 ftL (0% stimuli pattern post calibration). Source.
Pioneer 101FD/500M - 0.0005ftL Source.
Panasonic TH-85VX200 - 0.003 ftL (zero IRE signal?) Source.
Panasonic TC-P65VT30 - 0.0034 ftL (zero IRE signal?) Source.
Panasonic TH-65VX300U - 0.0052 ftL (non-zero IRE signal measured by D-Nice) Source / 0.004 (non-zero IRE signal measured by Ed Johnson) Source.
This Post's Change History

Recent Changes:
2011-11-06: Updated with D-Nice comments from HDJ.
2011-11-04: Various updates on availability and initial calibration results.
2011-10-08: Added official Panasonic product page.
2011-10-05: Shoot-out absence and 10pt.
2011-09-25: Added HD Guru CEDIA report.
2011-09-15: Unlike the VT30, no 3rd layer of glass. No improvements in this panel in the 2012 line.
2011-09-13: Created thread.


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## gimp

reserved


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## gimp

reserved 2


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## mechman

Thanks for doing this Gimp. We do appreciate it! :T


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## aleicgrant

am I off in assuming the is the next gen commercial panel replacement. Specs read a lot like a commercial panny albeit with the very nice prosumer features


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## davidjschenk

aleicgrant said:


> am I off in assuming the is the next gen commercial panel replacement. Specs read a lot like a commercial panny albeit with the very nice prosumer features


Hi Suzook,

That's exactly what it is.

Yours,

David


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## Matt Marceau

What sort of improvements does this panel offer that could be in the 2012 line? Maybe the double gray scale? Did notice there is double the shades of gradation at 12,288 v. the 6,144 of the commerical line. Is that a result of the doubling of gray scale? Could be. 

I think the 42" and 50" sizes are now supposed to be the BT300 only, although I'd love that to be inaccurate


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## Robert Zohn

Gimp, great job setting up this thread and your early information and references to souses is excellent! I can confirm that we will be integrating the VX300 into the high-end home theater market. 

The engineering samples I saw did not have the 3rd layer of glass.

gmarceau, I don't think we'll see anything from the VX300 pass to the consumer models for 2012. But Panasonic consumer has some nice new panel designs for the 2012 line-up. Of course, we won't see the high-end larger series ship till June 2012.

-Robert


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## gimp

Do you mean there will be >65" versions of the VX300 Series? Will there just 85" & 103" VX300 versions or will there also be a 70" version added?



Robert Zohn said:


> ...we won't see the high-end larger series ship till June 2012.


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## Robert Zohn

No 70" VX300 is planned. 

I was referring to the consumer line. The successor to the VT30 will be first shown at the 2012 CES Las Vegas show and will begin shipping in June 2012.

We are likely to see larger consumer pdps for 2012.

-Robert


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## gimp

Robert Zohn said:


> No 70" VX300 is planned.
> 
> I was referring to the consumer line. The successor to the VT30 will be first shown at the 2012 CES Las Vegas show and will begin shipping in June 2012.
> 
> We are likely to see larger consumer pdps for 2012.
> 
> -Robert


So will the VT30 successor be available in >65"? Also, will the exisiting VX200 models be updated to VX300?


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## Robert Zohn

Yes we're likely to see larger than 65" 2012 Panasonic consumer pdp series.

Not sure about the professional line, but my understanding is that the VX300 comes in 42", 50" and 65".

-Robert


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## bzal1122

Robert,

Have you guys recieved one of these yet for the shootout. I am really interested in this set and I can only hope yo can get a demand for them and be able to supply them to those of us who wan one. Did any of your guys ever calibrate a vx-200 and give any reviews


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## Robert Zohn

Not yet, but I am hopeful we'll have a 65" VX300 at the shoot-out. If it misses the event, we will have on on the shoot-out wall shortly and do a follow-up evaluation. 

At the moment here's a list of displays that will be in the event:

1. Samsung PN59D8000

2. Panasonic TC-P65VT30 or TC-P55VT30

3. LG 60PZ950

4. Samsung UN60D8000

5. LG 55LW9800 Nano

6. Sony XBR-55HX929

7. Toshiba 65UL610U or 55UL610U

8. Elite PRO-60X5FD

9. Panasonic Professional monitor 65VX300 (Hopefully, but may not make the shoot-out event date)

10. Pioneer Elite Signature Series PRO-141FD (Just for reference)

This is more displays than any other shoot-out in our 7 years of producing the flat panel HDTV shoot-out events.

-Robert


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## bzal1122

I am also looking forward to seeing what the Toshiba has in this shootout. I was a long time Toshiba fanboy many years ago and I still think they got screwed with HD-DVD which to me was clearly the more mature HD media platform. I am however a plasma nut and I think that plasma gives such a clear picture and I watch alot of Football and hockey so motion is a biggie for me as well. I am praying that the vx-300 uses the old KURO "sauce"and gives us the best plasma picture for 2011. I am however skeptical because a lot of people here and other forums have said the vx-300 will not be as great as we all hope, and it also hasn't sounded like D-Nice thought it would be either.


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## Robert Zohn

bzL1122, I also have a warm spot in my heart for Toshiba. 

We'll thoroughly be testing and evaluating how they compare in regards, to black level just before crushing, peak brightness without clipping, color accuracy, color saturation and motion resolution. We'll also evaluate the off axes viewing degradation and the 3D pq.

I'm surprised to hear you say D-Nice and others have not loved the VX300 as much as I do. I have seen this display at NAB and at Panasonic's NJ USA headquarters and thought it delivered an outstanding image quality. And in my conversations with D-Nice I thought he had high expectations for this monitor.

-Robert


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## bzal1122

Good to here Robert. I look forward to the shootout results as I am itching to purchase my next panel soon. I was almost buying a vt-30 but I figured I would wait and see if Panny can correct some of the issues they were having with it. 

In regards to D Nice , maybe he was just trying to ground some of these people who were and are labeling it a kuro killer without the facts to back it up just yet. I will not lie though as I too am hoping that people in the know like yourself and Dnice come out after spending some time with the set and say. " The Kuro has been matched or killed".


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## gimp

Robert Zohn said:


> bzL1122, I also have a warm spot in my heart for Toshiba.


Me too, I owned Toshiba's 57HLX82 LCOS RPTV.



Robert Zohn said:


> I'm surprised to hear you say D-Nice and others have not loved the VX300 as much as I do.


If I recall he was trying to manage expectations specifically with regard to black levels. History has demonstrated, Kuro beating black-levels are not a priority for Panasonic. For example, CNET measured initial black levels on the VT25 at 0.004 and the VT30 at 0.0061.


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## davidjschenk

gimp said:


> If I recall he was trying to manage expectations specifically with regard to black levels. History has demonstrated, Kuro beating black-levels are not a priority for Panasonic. *For example, CNET measured* *initial black levels* *on the VT25 at 0.004 and the VT30 at 0.0061.*


Hi guys,

Do we know what they were on the VX200? In light of the gap between consumer and professional displays, I'd take those to be a better indication of what to expect from the 300.

Yours,

David


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## gimp

davidjschenk said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Do we know what they were on the VX200? In light of the gap between consumer and professional displays, I'd take those to be a better indication of what to expect from the 300.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Unfortunately I've found few professional reviews and all black-level assessments are qualitative, not quantitative.


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## gimp

davidjschenk said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Do we know what they were on the VX200? In light of the gap between consumer and professional displays, I'd take those to be a better indication of what to expect from the 300.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


D-Nice says "The VX200 black levels measure 0.003FL".


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## gimp

Buzzard767 was told by Panny reps VX300 will be same sizes as VX200. Robert said 42", 50" and 65".


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## tailwhip

Yep, I found that too. Those smaller sizes were early rumors I guess. The pro BT series will be available in the smaller sizes though.


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## davidjschenk

Thanks, gimp. That certainly doesn't bode well for hopes that the 300s might best the 9G Kuros' black levels, but I guess I'm not too surprised.

Yours,

David


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## buzzard767

tailwhip said:


> Yep, I found that too. Those smaller sizes were early rumors I guess. The pro BT series will be available in the smaller sizes though.


I need a plasma to replace an LCD because of viewing angle limitations. I have my eye on the Sony XBR-46HX929 but I want to see the new Panasonic BT series before I open my wallet. 

Buzz


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## gimp

Any truth to the rumor that the VX300 won't make the shootout?


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## buzzard767

gimp said:


> Any truth to the rumor that the VX300 won't make the shootout?


It's not a rumor, it's a fact.


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## buzzard767

From HDJ, Panasonic insider:



avjunkie said:


> The message we want to get across is we have a consumer line and Professional monitor equipment .. If someone uses that for home use that's fine. But not the brand message. We aren't sending them to VE as we don't want our lines to compete against each other like that.


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## Robert Zohn

Correct, Panasonic has decided not to participate in the shoot-out with the TH-65VX300 Professional monitor. Since the product is not released yet I cannot get one in time for our October 8th and 9th event dates so the VX300 series will not be in the shoot-out event.

However, the shoot-out wall is a living entity so every year we add all flagship mid-year introduced flat panel displays and reevaluate them against the other displays on the shoot-out wall. I expect we'll have our 65" VX300 around the same time LG's 55" Nano will be available so we'll have two new entries to discuss and evaluate the differences and their place within this home theater high-end group.

I believe Panasonic's VX300 series belongs in the high-end home theater market and I think Panasonic Pro group also believes and even markets this new Professional monitor to the home-theater enthusiasts.

Live and learn as new things come along and enjoy the best in life!

-Robert


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## gimp

Is it true that unlike the VT30 series the VX300 has no 10pt white balance and gamma?


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## mechman

gimp said:


> Is it true that unlike the VT30 series the VX300 has no 10pt white balance and gamma?


That would be a shame in my opinion. Especially the way they're planning on marketing it. :rolleyesno:


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## Gotchaa

mechman said:


> That would be a shame in my opinion. Especially the way they're planning on marketing it. :rolleyesno:


The BT series 42/50 Pro panels do not.


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## gimp

TH-65VX300U official Panasonic product page.


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## stillen

I want to buy a 65VX300 but it is smaller than the 65VT30 so will the picture upgrade be worth it to loose several inches.


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## aleicgrant

they are both 65 inches


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## stillen

yes but the vx300 is really 56 by 31 whereas the 65vto is 62 by 35 so you see the difference.


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## Gotchaa

Not sure why any consumer would want this panel IR will be a problem


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## stillen

Gotchaa said:


> Not sure why any consumer would want this panel IR will be a problem


 ok thanx appreciate it


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## aleicgrant

Gotchaa said:


> Not sure why any consumer would want this panel IR will be a problem


not sure I even understand this post. IR is pretty much non existant if you take the right break in. i have a four year old 659uk which has zero ir.


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## Robert Zohn

We just launched our VX300 offer along with the owners manual. My first allocation is due in by the end of this month and will be added to our shoot-out wall and we'll publish our evaluation.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## BruZZi

Robert Zohn said:


> We just launched our VX300 offer along with the owners manual. My first allocation is due in by the end of this month and will be added to our shoot-out wall and we'll publish our evaluation.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> -Robert



There you are... 

Too bad I couldn't attend the shoot-out this year. But really want to check-out the VX300. 

Hope everything's OK with you and family. 

.


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## Robert Zohn

HI BruZZi, we missed you! Please stop by when we receive the 65" VX300.

-Robert


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## gimp

Interesting comment from D-Nice:

"IMO, the VX300 is nothing more than a VT30 (with both the fbr improved firmware and upcoming saturation update) in a tuxedo."


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## Robert Zohn

Things have moved up by a week and we'll have our share of Panasonic's very first allocation of 65" VX300s by the end of next week, (The week of 10/24/11)!!!

I'm going to have one of the VX300's ISF day/night/3D calibrated immediately (after a 36 hr break-in) and it will be mounted it on our shoot-out wall. And then we'll recalibrate after 150 hrs.

Come one come all.... That's right all forum members and visitors are welcome to stop by for a really good look at this display on the famous shoot-out wall.

Let the big boy games begin....

-Robert


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## gimp

Hopefully it can be mounted immediately next to the Sharp Elite. Who's doing the calibration?



Robert Zohn said:


> Things have moved up by a week and we'll have our share of Panasonic's very first allocation of 65" VX300s by the end of next week, (The week of 10/24/11)!!!
> 
> I'm going to have one of the VX300's ISF day/night/3D calibrated immediately (after a 36 hr break-in) and it will be mounted it on our shoot-out wall. And then we'll recalibrate after 150 hrs.
> 
> Come one come all.... That's right all forum members and visitors are welcome to stop by for a really good look at this display on the famous shoot-out wall.
> 
> Let the big boy games begin....
> 
> -Robert


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## Robert Zohn

We mounting it between the VT30 and Elite TV on the shoot-out wall. It will be calibrated by D-Nice and or Ed Johnson.

-Robert


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## JimP

Robert.....any initial thoughts?


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## mechman

I don't think he has them yet?


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## Robert Zohn

I've spent a lot of time with this monitor at Panasonic headquarters, NAB and other shows, but they were engineer samples as production has not shipped yet. At NAB I was invited to Panasonic's private suite for a demo with several TV Broadcast video engineers and Chief Engineers. The presentations were done by a very technical top exec. with the design engineers from Japan standing by and answering many of the TV Broadcast engineer's questions.

What I learned that is new and unique to this new monitor is the internal video processing circuitry and the bi-level drive system. 

The VX300 was next to the VX200 and you could easily see the advantages of the internal vp and bi-level drive system. The vp cleaned up *all* of the noise in the 1080i signal and the bi-level technology delivered a very smooth image quality. It truly looked like a continuous tone photograph, not video.

This monitor was developed as a studio reference monitor, primarily for authoring BD and color correction on motion picture pre and post production. I immediately thought of this as a great display for high-end home theater applications. It reminded me of my beloved PRO-141FD monitor, but with superior processing and finer gradation so you can have a more finely defined image. 

The only reservation I have is that I have only seen pre-production engineering samples and until we see the actual factory production units I do not want to claim this as the best display ever made. Plus it will not have the deep black level and peak brightness that this year's new Elite TVs boast that have spoiled us so dearly.

However, it does deliver an outstanding picture quality and that unmistakeable plasma depth, which so closely resembles the look of film. I believe purest and movie buffs will love it's natural looking and very finely detailed image quality.

Time will tell and it's not far away as I am expecting my first allotment this Friday.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

Ed Johnson is stopping by to calibrate our TH-65VX300U and D-Nice is flying in to help us evaluate and compare it against all of the TVs on the shoot-out wall. 

I also contacted Kevin Miller and asked him to stop by to help us with the evaluation. 

We're all very excited to finally receive a production sample and have it mounted on the shoot-out wall next to all of the flagship 2011/12 displays.

-Robert


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## aleicgrant

WOW you just never cease to amaze me 

thanks for all you do my friend. I cannot wait to see the reviews


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## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> I've spent a lot of time with this monitor at Panasonic headquarters, NAB and other shows, but they were engineer samples as production has not shipped yet. At NAB I was invited to Panasonic's private suite for a demo with several TV Broadcast video engineers and Chief Engineers. The presentations were done by a very technical top exec. with the design engineers from Japan standing by and answering many of the TV Broadcast engineer's questions.
> 
> What I learned that is new and unique to this new monitor is the internal video processing circuitry and the bi-level drive system.
> 
> The VX300 was next to the VX200 and you could easily see the advantages of the internal vp and bi-level drive system. The vp cleaned up *all* of the noise in the 1080i signal and the bi-level technology delivered a very smooth image quality. It truly looked like a continuous tone photograph, not video.
> 
> This monitor was developed as a studio reference monitor, primarily for authoring BD and color correction on motion picture pre and post production. I immediately thought of this as a great display for high-end home theater applications. It reminded me of my beloved PRO-141FD monitor, but with superior processing and finer gradation so you can have a more finely defined image.
> 
> The only reservation I have is that I have only seen pre-production engineering samples and until we see the actual factory production units I do not want to claim this as the best display ever made. Plus it will not have the deep black level and peak brightness that this year's new Elite TVs boast that have spoiled us so dearly.
> 
> However, it does deliver an outstanding picture quality and that unmistakeable plasma depth, which so closely resembles the look of film. I believe purest and movie buffs will love it's natural looking and very finely detailed image quality.
> 
> Time will tell and it's not far away as I am expecting my first allotment this Friday.
> 
> -Robert


If it's as good as the preproduction models, will the VX300 be replacing your Sharp Elite, which recently replaced your Pioneer Elite?


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## Robert Zohn

John, I do change my a/v equipment in my home frequently. Mostly so I can do long term evaluation and because I love this stuff. My beloved 141FD is the longest I have ever kept a TV, but I'm not likely to swap my 70" Elite for a while. I enjoy the 70" size and the room is very bright and we have become accustomed to the deep black and it's ability to deliver a very bright image without clipping so the Elite stays in my living room for now.

I may upgrade my 60" VT30 in the master bed room for the 65" VX300.

-Robert


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## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> John, I do change my a/v equipment in my home frequently. Mostly so I can do long term evaluation and because I love this stuff. My beloved 141FD is the longest I have ever kept a TV, but I'm not likely to swap my 70" Elite for a while. I enjoy the 70" size and the room is very bright and we have become accustomed to the deep black and it's ability to deliver a very bright image without clipping so the Elite stays in my living room for now.
> 
> I may upgrade my 60" VT30 in the master bed room for the 65" VX300.
> 
> -Robert


Is 65" the largest the VX300 will come in? I know you appreciate the best, which is why I asked.


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## Robert Zohn

Yes, just one size for the VX300 series, 65".

-Robert


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## JimP

Looking forward to seeing what the calibrators have to say and whether or not it shares some of the same issues as the VT30.

If it's got the color right, I hope we can extrapulate that they can do the same with either the VT30 or its sucessor.


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## Robert Zohn

Most of our VX300 orders shipped today!! And we'll have ours Monday.

-Robert


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## simoneg14

Hi please post your views on this panel on moday when you recieve your unit thanks


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## aleicgrant

very interested in hearing first impressions


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## Robert Zohn

Our demo and store stock VX300s arrived just as we were closing tonight so no time to do much other than start the break-in slides. However, we're so excited that we did move up Kevin Miller and Ed Johnson's visit to Thursday afternoon to start the evaluation and calibration. D-Nice will arrive Saturday morning.

Another big week for VE as we begin our VX300 evaluation on the famous shoot-out wall.

-Robert


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## mechman

Excellent Robert! Keep us informed. :T


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## Robert Zohn

We're having fun with our store demo VX300! My staff took some photos that we posted on our VE Facebook page. Take a look.

-Robert


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## aleicgrant

very very nice.


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## Gotchaa

Almost all of the post production houses and studios are using a Panasonic Pro panel, so if you want to see what they see, then this is as close as you are going to get. They presented a paper at SMPTE last week with some details of how this panel has been improved, and it is the clear favorite for pros, although not in the 65" size


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## JimP

Viewing the photos on facebook, I see on the side of the box that it's "3D". 

Thought that it wasn't 3D? Did that change?


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## Robert Zohn

Yes, the new VX300 is a 3D monitor, in fact it has two large window IR sensors, all other displays have one IR sensor. Plus Panasonic offers optional remote 3D IR sensors to further extend the 3D range.

-Robert


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## JimP

Robert...we might have to talk.


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## Robert Zohn

Please yes ^^.

-Robert


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## gimp

Is this it?

Plasma Advancements As Evaluation Grade Monitors 
Jim Noecker (Panasonic, USA)

Several fixed-pixel display technologies have been proposed to replace cathode ray tubes (CRTs) for reference monitor applications. To date, most fixed-pixel broadcast and production monitors have relied on liquid-crystal displays, but there are several limitations to LCD image quality that are challenging and expensive to overcome. A more practical alternative is the plasma display panel, which has proven to be a strong candidate for reference displays. As an emissive technology, it has wide viewing angles, high contrast, deep black levels, and excellent color saturation. It is also very affordable in large sizes and offers greater life spans than other leading reference monitor replacements, which is of great interest in today's challenging economic climate. This paper will detail the performance tests and calibrations performed on three generations of industrial plasma monitors that eventually led to the first commercial 42-inch and 50-inch reference plasma displays.

Presenter bio: Jim Noecker, Sr. Business Development Manager of Flat Panel Displays for Panasonic Solutions Company, has over 21 years of experience in the display industry. For several years Jim was the senior designer for plasma displays at Plasmaco in upstate NY, which was subsequently acquired by Panasonic to launch this technology. He holds a patent for digital display image processing. Jim has conducted technical presentations on display technologies to educate internal sales and marketing staff, dealers, and industry press and analysts. He has also lectured to the Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE), Hollywood Post Alliance (HPA), Society for Information Display (SID), Wisconsin Broadcasters Association and the DisplaySearch US FPD conference.



Gotchaa said:


> Almost all of the post production houses and studios are using a Panasonic Pro panel, so if you want to see what they see, then this is as close as you are going to get. They presented a paper at SMPTE last week with some details of how this panel has been improved, and it is the clear favorite for pros, although not in the 65" size


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## Robert Zohn

Good find gimp, ^^ this is my major contact and friend at Panasonic Professional. Jim is a very fine gentleman and is very technical. 

-Robert


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## gimp

Any possibility of getting this paper posted here?



Robert Zohn said:


> Good find gimp, ^^ this is my major contact and friend at Panasonic Professional. Jim is a very fine gentleman and is very technical.
> 
> -Robert


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## Robert Zohn

I sent Jim an email and got an instant reply that he's on vacation till Monday. So unless it's not available for public reproduction, which I would doubt, I'll have it Monday and post it here.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

Here's our initial comments on the VX300 after Ed Johnson just spent many hours calibrating and evaluating with Wendy and myself. We compared the VX300 against the VT30, PN59D8000 and Elite 60"

First, I want everyone to know that everything was good, nothing bad to report at this time. Tomorrow Kevin Miller is stopping by and Saturday evening D-Nice is flying in to do his evaluation and I may have him calibrate and save his calibration in a separate memory. So stay tuned for more professional comments.

The monitor calibrated beautifully gamma set at 2.35 perfectly flat from 10 to 60 IRE with very small bumps above 70 IRE, but the Delta E was below 1.5 and the gray scale was also excellent with a Delta E of less than 1.5. Kelvin was easily set to 6520 K

The image quality was simply stunning and in comparison to the very best TVs on the shoot-out wall the VX300 looked the best. It has a more natural look, closer to reality, better color accuracy than even Samsung's PN59D8000, which BTW won for the best color accuracy in our recent shoot-out. Skin tones for black, Asian and Caucasians was dead on perfect. They have a pure life like accuracy.

The image is more finely detailed that makes the picture look life like and for lack of a better term it actually looks sharper, but with no noise whatsoever. Which brings me to the built-in processing, which must be one of the factors in delivering the exceptional reference quality picture.

The MLL is .004 with a 1% pattern. We could not measure the IRE with a zero IRE signal as the panel shuts off like the LED TVs do. With a zero signal feed the VX300 measures .000

This display has a lot of possibilities as you can see from our early evaluation, plus the endless special settings that only a studio reference monitor would have. For example in the "Advanced Setting" you can select the following color spaces:

1. Rec 709, (which of course, we calibrated to)

2. Digital Cinema, (I think Hollywood authors to Digital Cinema)

3. EBU, (European Broadcast Union)

4. SMPTE C, (For SD material Rec 601)

5. And finally Custom (so you can invent your own color space)

3D is awesome and we did not have time to calibrate the 3D mode tonight, but I did pop in Avatar. The depth, color, and what looked like zero cross talk made this epic stereoscopic experience fun to watch again. 

All in all a beautiful display for the most discerning enthusiasts. 

More to come over the next few days.

-Robert


----------



## JimP

Sounds good Robert.

Can you tell us about brightness.


----------



## Robert Zohn

We set the VX300 at 30fl, which is how all of the displays are set on the shoot-out wall.

-Robert


----------



## JimP

Something I'd be interesting in knowing is how well this set will perform in a normally lit room when calibrated to say 40 ftl. Is there any problem calibrating or performance wise to this level or is this display truely intended dark room viewing?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Jim, good point. I would say this display is defiantly best viewed in low ambient light. But I don't think it would perform any worse that other pdps. I can get one of our calibrators to do a ISF day at 40fl and night at around 25fl.

Unquestionably, the new Elite LCD/LED TVs perform best in all ambient light conditions. So if you view in high and low ambient conditions and can afford the Elite it would be the best choice.

-Robert


----------



## JimP

Robert

Rereading your post, it sure sounds like Panasonic made a strategic mistake not making sure that you had a VX300 there for the shootout.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Jim, another good question. The VX300 could not make the shoot-out because none were produced when we had the event. The only VX300s in the country were engineering samples and we were not sure they would perform the same as production units.

I'm glad to have it on our shoot-out wall now and to have our three expert panelists (Ed Johnson, Kevin Miller and D-Nice) review the panel against all of the flagship displays on the wall. 

-Robert


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> We set the VX300 at 30fl, which is how all of the displays are set on the shoot-out wall.
> 
> -Robert


I was told at the shootout that all the displays were all calibrated to a gamma of 2.4 and 35 - 36 flts, information supported by the posted CalMAN reports.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thank you John, you are correct. I'll have the VX300 re-calibrated at 35fl. We selected 2.35 gamma and we'll now calibrate to 2.4.

-Robert


----------



## gimp

Thanks for all the awesome updates. Although not surprising, not only is the 0.004 MLL still well above the best Kuro levels but it is not even as good as the VT30 or VX200. Last time you measured your Kuro, what was the MLL?


Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD - 0.0004 ftL
Pioneer Elite Kuro 9G - 0.0009 ftL
VX200 - 0.003 ftL
Panasonic TC-P65VT30 - 0.0034 ftL
Panasonic 65VX300U - 0.004 ftL

Could you ask Jim Noecker why Panasonic hasn't leveraged Kuro technology to match or beat Kuro MLL? I'm sure everyone would appreciate further insight.



Robert Zohn said:


> Thank you John, you are correct. I'll have the VX300 re-calibrated at 35fl. We selected 2.35 gamma and we'll now calibrate to 2.4.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## gimp

Can you confirm if the VX300 has 10pt white balance and gamma? It was rumored that unlike the VT30, it did not.


----------



## JimP

gimp said:


> Thanks for all the awesome updates. Although not surprising, not only is the 0.004 MLL still well above the best Kuro levels but it is not even as good as the VT30 or VX200. Last time you measured your Kuro, what was the MLL?
> 
> 
> Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD - 0.0004 ftL
> Pioneer Elite Kuro 9G - 0.0009 ftL
> VX200 - 0.003 ftL
> Panasonic TC-P65VT30 - 0.0034 ftL
> Panasonic 65VX300U - 0.004 ftL
> 
> Could you ask Jim Noecker why Panasonic hasn't leveraged Kuro technology to match or beat Kuro MLL? I'm sure everyone would appreciate further insight.


Were all these reading at 1% stimulus? 
I thought Robert said that the vx300 read 0 at zero stimulus.
Some of these are at zero stimulus and others aren't.


----------



## gimp

Hopefully others can verify. Don't know what IRE level(s) were used but here is my guess.

Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD - 0.0004 ftL [non-zero IRE signal]
Pioneer Elite Kuro 9G - 0.0009 ftL [zero IRE signal?]
Panasonic TH-85VX200 - 0.003 ftL [zero IRE signal?] 
Panasonic TC-P65VT30 - 0.0034 ftL [zero IRE signal?]
Panasonic TH-65VX300U - 0.004 ftL [non-zero IRE signal]



JimP said:


> Were all these reading at 1% stimulus?
> I thought Robert said that the vx300 read 0 at zero stimulus.
> Some of these are at zero stimulus and others aren't.


----------



## Matt Marceau

Was there an ANSI checkerboard pattern used? Seems like only 0IRE was tested. Still, if it's 1% stimuli and getting .004 ft/L would it be around .003 during content? That still seems great, especially if ANSI gets around 7000 to 1. I'm sure if this is putting out an image that is better than the x60 Elite, then that is something special.

Hopefully with some new info on the 2012 consumer line that's emerged, this level of accuracy can make it's way over there, as well.


----------



## cleveland plasma

stillen said:


> yes but the vx300 is really 56 by 31 whereas the 65vto is 62 by 35 so you see the difference.


Screen size is still the same. One can always make a picture frame.


----------



## cleveland plasma

gimp said:


> Thanks for all the awesome updates. Although not surprising, not only is the 0.004 MLL still well above the best Kuro levels but it is not even as good as the VT30 or VX200. Last time you measured your Kuro, what was the MLL?


We have not had any time to run any tests this way, but that is not the best news I have heard all day


----------



## buzzard767

gimp said:


> Can you confirm if the VX300 has 10pt white balance and gamma? It was rumored that unlike the VT30, it did not.


Page 31 of the operating instructions indicates the WB is 2 point.


----------



## Gotchaa

buzzard767 said:


> Page 31 of the operating instructions indicates the WB is 2 point.


That is correct, software and panel technology is the same as the BT series 42/50 " that studios use out here in LA. I hope this production panel does not have the same issues with image retention we saw on earlier engineering samples.

The design of this panel is similar to the VT series but has significant differences including the power supply and asics for processing. It is designed for Pro's, and while the software does not have the fine tune controls for w/b it should be more stable. Studios and post production use HD SDI inputs with these panels, so it will be interesting to see how they calibrate and perform via HDMI.


----------



## JimP

Isn't the VT30's 10pt white balance settings in the service menu and not the user menu?


----------



## Gotchaa

JimP said:


> Isn't the VT30's 10pt in the service menu and not the user menu?


No it is accessible in custom.


----------



## JimP

Wonder what the calibrator used over at Robert's?


----------



## Gotchaa

JimP said:


> Wonder what the calibrator used over at Robert's?


Since it has modular bays for additional inputs, my guess is just the default HDMI. 

So Jim you think this is going to be the panel you get or are you waiting for 2012?


----------



## JimP

Gotchaa said:


> Since it has modular bays for additional inputs, my guess is just the default HDMI.
> 
> So Jim you think this is going to be the panel you get or are you waiting for 2012?


I've rewritten my response a couple of times and the conclusion has to be that I don't honestly know.

We'll have to see what D-Nice says and find out how difficult it is to calibrate.


----------



## Robert Zohn

D-Nice is flying in tonigth to evaluate the VX300 and help me do a through comparison against the VT30, PNxxD8000, and the new Elite.

I'll post his comments tonight or no later than tomorrow.

-Robert


----------



## JimP

Robert

Did Kevin Miller make it by yesterday?

If so, what did he have to say?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Kevin's visit is postponed.

-Robert


----------



## Raj

Robert, just to let you know, it's not just local AV aficionados who are hungry for more information on this set ! With Sharp Australia announcing the "Elite" sets will not be sold here, this multiple Kuro owner is hoping the VX300 is something special.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi Raj, thanks for joining HTS! Happy to help out all of our mates across both ponds.

Stay tunes for more updates on the VX300

Cheers,

-Robert


----------



## gimp

Hopefully D-Nice can elaborate on how MLL is measured and if the ranking I posted is valid.



Robert Zohn said:


> D-Nice is flying in tonigth to evaluate the VX300 and help me do a through comparison against the VT30, PNxxD8000, and the new Elite.
> 
> I'll post his comments tonight or no later than tomorrow.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## kamenoff

I live also in Australia and was wondering why Sharp/ Pioneer limitted the Elite TV only to US? Is it something to do with the voltage supply or the TV systems? For me makes no sense to make a good panel and not to promote it?


----------



## JimP

kamenoff

I doubt any CE company can afford to not sell their sets worldwide. 

Don't lose hope.


----------



## Turbe

It's not just simply let's sell in it Australia.. 

The demand and the price they would need but may not get with proper quantity may not make sense down under..

I know Pioneer internally was not exactly 'thrilled' with the channel reality in Australia.. .. though all manufacturers are now dealing with these concerns globally..

Pioneer Australia was even actually including/paying for calibration with each Pioneer sold though it wasn't much paid to the Calibrator and the value of the calibration perhaps could be questioned.. the Calibrator would basically calibrate for about an hour/hour and half including setup/take down.... I know many Calibrators that take 30-60 minutes for setup/to get started..


----------



## Raj

kamenoff, I think it has to do with price. For example the Pioneer lx509a (pro 111fd) retailed at $6500AUS and the lx609a (pro 151fd) for $12,500 ! Much more than their US counterparts even if you account for the currency conversion. Even though the AUS dollar is worth more than the US dollar now you and I know there is always a crazy markup on all products. Panasonic Australia brought out the Vx100 series but not the Vx200. If the Vx300 is close enough to Kuro and does not come out here I will likely be buying one from any US retailer who will ship it to me ! Robert ?

If you really want a sharp elite I suggest you buy it overseas and ship it. Although it is NTSC and 120v only, you can get around the 120v issue with a step down converter. NTSC is not a problem as all Blu Ray runs 1080/24 or 1080/60, Xbox and Ps3 can be set to run at 60hz and apple TV should be run at 60hz to prevent jerky movement of programming. If you still want to watch PAL 50hz Tv or DVD's I suggest an inexpensive DVDO vp20 which does a great job at converting 50 to 60Hz !


----------



## cleveland plasma

kamenoff said:


> I live also in Australia and was wondering why Sharp/ Pioneer limitted the Elite TV only to US?


 We are the # 1 consumers in the world, not saying that is something to be proud of.....mixed view here......


----------



## kamenoff

..but this doesn't mean that the rest of the world should be deprived of quolity staff. We tend to pay more here in Ozy land and this should be enough stimulus for the companies to bring quolity products. I have Kuro 8 gen. and I am very happy but I need larger display. My choices came down to Elite 70" and the Panasonic VX200. Unfortunately, Panasonic offered me to delivery VX200 for $50,000 which is double what it cost in US.
Now I am considering the VX300 but still my first choice is the Elite...even I haven't seen neither personally.


----------



## Robert Zohn

D-Nice came to our store a little later than scheduled after a long day of calibrating TVs in PA, but he still went ahead and calibrated our store demo VX300. After the calibration we spent about an hour comparing the VX300 against the VT30 and PNxxD8000.

We got home after midnight and I see D-Nice posted some of his opinions on HDJ. I wish I could post there, but sadly I have been banned so my comments have to be done here and on HDF and Blu-ray.com.

The only item I strongly disagree with D-Nice on is the VX300's color accuracy. Ed Johnson and I say the color accuracy is far better on the VX300 than any other display and for example we point to flesh tones. I showed D-Nice several scenes in Dark Night where everyone had a red cast on the flesh tones, except the VX300 which clearly look real to life. 

In one scene near the beginning of Dark Night Morgan Freeman is having lunch with a Chinese actor in an outdoor restaurant on an overcast day. Every photographer would die for a scene like this as this is the exact lighting conditions that 6500 K is based on, in fact, Noon on an overcast day is the reference of light for 6500 K, but the faces look red, nothing like what you would imagine Morgan or the other actor's face would look like. 

D-Nice claims that the Samsung, which clearly makes the flesh tones with a red tint is correct as the film was created with this tint and further that the Samsung was rated the best for color accuracy by CNet and our panel of experts at the shoot-out. However, now Ed Johnson and myself say the VX300 is more color accurate and agree that flesh tones are the most important thing to get right.

Samsung's D8000 pdp was the best at delivering the best color accuracy, until the VX300 came and now there's a new game in town. Further, like with all displays you can't see inaccuracies until you have another more accurate display on the same evaluation wall. 

My lifetime passion is photography and cinema-photography and I just can't imagine a movie director and or a cinema-photographer that have the opportunity to have a photographer's dream natural lighting conditions and then intentionally make everyone's flesh tones look red.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

I guess mr Nolan is going to have to settle this dispute ;-)

I tend to agree that red cast just doesnt look right unless the director is going for the sun burn look!


----------



## Robert Zohn

I'm seriously sending an email to Christopher Nolan and Wally Phister and I'll be asking them this question and if they will send me a print of any scene(s) that have flesh tones as they intended them to look.

-Robert


----------



## ImRizzo

Anxious to hear the results, sir.


----------



## gimp

The MLL measurements from D-Nice are different:

Panasonic TH-65VX300U - 0.0052 ftL (non-zero IRE signal measured by D-Nice) Source / 0.004 (non-zero IRE signal measured by Ed Johnson) Source.


----------



## Dill

thanks to Robert at value electronics for shipping me the panasonic vx 300 from Bellevue wa to Blaine Washington which I received on October 31st,2011. I emailed Robert 14 times in each time. He had no problem replying and if he did not have The Answer, he would get back to me excellent service I would highly recommend value Electronics. My first impression was wow what a great picture! My family said it's the best plasma they ever seen. There is no flickering. Beautiful brilliant screen wow . There is one problem which concerns me! The vx 300 is flashing red.my remote will not turn it on so I turned it off at the bottom put it back on it went green and all is fine. It happened twice in Five days blinking red .read the manual on the trouble shooting it said mail function. Should I be worried about it?


----------



## ImRizzo

Dill said:


> thanks to Robert at value electronics for shipping me the panasonic vx 300 from Bellevue wa to Blaine Washington which I received on October 31st,2011. I emailed Robert 14 times in each time. He had no problem replying and if he did not have The Answer, he would get back to me excellent service I would highly recommend value Electronics. My first impression was wow what a great picture! My family said it's the best plasma they ever seen. There is no flickering. Beautiful brilliant screen wow . There is one problem which concerns me! The vx 300 is flashing red.my remote will not turn it on so I turned it off at the bottom put it back on it went green and all is fine. It happened twice in Five days blinking red .read the manual on the trouble shooting it said mail function. Should I be worried about it?


The Rewards of dealing with a Class Act.


----------



## Gotchaa

Robert Zohn said:


> D-Nice came to our store a little later than scheduled after a long day of calibrating TVs in PA, but he still went ahead and calibrated our store demo VX300. After the calibration we spent about an hour comparing the VX300 against the VT30 and PNxxD8000.
> 
> We got home after midnight and I see D-Nice posted some of his opinions on HDJ. I wish I could post there, but sadly I have been banned so my comments have to be done here and on HDF and Blu-ray.com.
> 
> The only item I strongly disagree with D-Nice on is the VX300's color accuracy. Ed Johnson and I say the color accuracy is far better on the VX300 than any other display and for example we point to flesh tones. I showed D-Nice several scenes in Dark Night where everyone had a red cast on the flesh tones, except the VX300 which clearly look real to life.
> 
> In one scene near the beginning of Dark Night Morgan Freeman is having lunch with a Chinese actor in an outdoor restaurant on an overcast day. Every photographer would die for a scene like this as this is the exact lighting conditions that 6500 K is based on, in fact, Noon on an overcast day is the reference of light for 6500 K, but the faces look red, nothing like what you would imagine Morgan or the other actor's face would look like.
> 
> D-Nice claims that the Samsung, which clearly makes the flesh tones with a red tint is correct as the film was created with this tint and further that the Samsung was rated the best for color accuracy by CNet and our panel of experts at the shoot-out. However, now Ed Johnson and myself say the VX300 is more color accurate and agree that flesh tones are the most important thing to get right.
> 
> Samsung's D8000 pdp was the best at delivering the best color accuracy, until the VX300 came and now there's a new game in town. Further, like with all displays you can't see inaccuracies until you have another more accurate display on the same evaluation wall.
> 
> My lifetime passion is photography and cinema-photography and I just can't imagine a movie director and or a cinema-photographer that have the opportunity to have a photographer's dream natural lighting conditions and then intentionally make everyone's flesh tones look red.
> 
> -Robert



I don't necessarily remember the director commentary suggesting anything about the flesh tones or coloring for this film, but it is likely they used a Panasonic Pro panel to master the BD anyhow, so they probably were seeing what you saw


----------



## Robert Zohn

Dill said:


> thanks to Robert at value electronics for shipping me the panasonic vx 300 from Bellevue wa to Blaine Washington which I received on October 31st,2011. I emailed Robert 14 times in each time. He had no problem replying and if he did not have The Answer, he would get back to me excellent service I would highly recommend value Electronics. My first impression was wow what a great picture! My family said it's the best plasma they ever seen. There is no flickering. Beautiful brilliant screen wow . There is one problem which concerns me! The vx 300 is flashing red.my remote will not turn it on so I turned it off at the bottom put it back on it went green and all is fine. It happened twice in Five days blinking red .read the manual on the trouble shooting it said mail function. Should I be worried about it?


Just in case this is an issue I'll send you a replacement VX300; when the carrier delivers the new VX300 we'll p/u the troubled one.

Thanks for the very kind words!

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Gotchaa said:


> I don't necessarily remember the director commentary suggesting anything about the flesh tones or coloring for this film, but it is likely they used a Panasonic Pro panel to master the BD anyhow, so they probably were seeing what you saw


Hey John, that makes a lot sense and although I did not think of that explanation it supports my feelings.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

ImRizzo said:


> The Rewards of dealing with a Class Act.


thats a BIG +1


----------



## JimP

----


----------



## mechman

Any calibration data yet Robert? I wouldn't mind seeing the reports. :T


----------



## Robert Zohn

I'm waiting for Ed Johnson and Kevin Miller's ISF report and then I'll post all three, Ed Johnson's D-Nice's and Kevin Miller's ISF reports.

-Robert


----------



## mechman

Sounds good Robert!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Robert Zohn said:


> D-Nice came to our store a little later than scheduled after a long day of calibrating TVs in PA, but he still went ahead and calibrated our store demo VX300. After the calibration we spent about an hour comparing the VX300 against the VT30 and PNxxD8000.
> 
> We got home after midnight and I see D-Nice posted some of his opinions on HDJ. I wish I could post there, but sadly I have been banned so my comments have to be done here and on HDF and Blu-ray.com.
> 
> The only item I strongly disagree with D-Nice on is the VX300's color accuracy. Ed Johnson and I say the color accuracy is far better on the VX300 than any other display and for example we point to flesh tones. I showed D-Nice several scenes in Dark Night where everyone had a red cast on the flesh tones, except the VX300 which clearly look real to life.
> 
> In one scene near the beginning of Dark Night Morgan Freeman is having lunch with a Chinese actor in an outdoor restaurant on an overcast day. Every photographer would die for a scene like this as this is the exact lighting conditions that 6500 K is based on, in fact, Noon on an overcast day is the reference of light for 6500 K, but the faces look red, nothing like what you would imagine Morgan or the other actor's face would look like.
> 
> D-Nice claims that the Samsung, which clearly makes the flesh tones with a red tint is correct as the film was created with this tint and further that the Samsung was rated the best for color accuracy by CNet and our panel of experts at the shoot-out. However, now Ed Johnson and myself say the VX300 is more color accurate and agree that flesh tones are the most important thing to get right.
> 
> Samsung's D8000 pdp was the best at delivering the best color accuracy, until the VX300 came and now there's a new game in town. Further, like with all displays you can't see inaccuracies until you have another more accurate display on the same evaluation wall.
> 
> My lifetime passion is photography and cinema-photography and I just can't imagine a movie director and or a cinema-photographer that have the opportunity to have a photographer's dream natural lighting conditions and then intentionally make everyone's flesh tones look red.
> 
> -Robert


Kevin Miller just left my store after calibrating and evaluating the VX300 and he has come to the exact same conclusions as Ed Johnson and I have. Panasonic's VX300 has more accurate color rendering than any other 2011/2012 display on our shoot-out wall. As Ed and I stated, Samsung's D8000 pdp pushes red, which is exactly why flesh tones have a red tint on their skin. 

With the use of Joe Kane's HD Basics test disc we were able to definitively prove that Panasonic's VX300 decodes Red, Green and Blue the best and Samsung's D8000 pushes red and has errors in the other primary and secondary colors. This red push that is inherit in the D8000 is the sole reason for the red cast on all skin tones. Joe Kane's HD Basics disc separates the Red, Green and Blue and lets you see any decoding errors. Decoding errors cannot be detected by simply reading ISF reports, but they can be seen by viewing content and when you have a test disc that isolates the primary colors. 

Samsung's D8000 pdp was the most accurate for color reproduction, but the new game in town is Panasonic's reference studio monitor VX300 and it unequivocally is the color reference. 

Kevin Miller agrees with Ed and I that the new reference display for color accuracy is Panasonic's new VX300. 

-Robert


----------



## ImRizzo

Sounds like the new King of Displays has been crowned.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Actually I would not say that^^, mostly because the black level does not stand up in high ambient light conditions. For a dark room this monitor is absolutely stunning, but for the average everyday use it's not the new "King of HDTV" That title is still reserved for the new Elite.

-Robert


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> Kevin Miller just left my store after calibrating and evaluating the VX300 and he has come to the exact same conclusions as Ed Johnson and I have. Panasonic's VX300 has more accurate color rendering than any other 2011/2012 display on our shoot-out wall. As Ed and I stated, Samsung's D8000 pdp pushes red, which is exactly why flesh tones have a red tint on their skin.
> 
> With the use of Joe Kane's HD Basics test disc we were able to definitively prove that Panasonic's VX300 decodes Red, Green and Blue the best and Samsung's D8000 pushes red and has errors in the other primary and secondary colors. This red push that is inherit in the D8000 is the sole reason for the red cast on all skin tones. Joe Kane's HD Basics disc separates the Red, Green and Blue and lets you see any decoding errors. Decoding errors cannot be detected by simply reading ISF reports, but they can be seen by viewing content and when you have a test disc that isolates the primary colors.
> 
> Samsung's D8000 pdp was the most accurate for color reproduction, but the new game in town is Panasonic's reference studio monitor VX300 and it unequivocally is the color reference.
> 
> Kevin Miller agrees with Ed and I that the new reference display for color accuracy is Panasonic's new VX300.
> 
> -Robert


Please explain this comment. 
Are you saying utilizing JK DVE disc, that you were able to better judge the displays color accuracy than utilizing expensive sensitive meters, pattern generators, and calibration software?


----------



## Turbe

Robert Zohn said:


> Kevin Miller just left my store after calibrating and evaluating the VX300 and he has come to the exact same conclusions as Ed Johnson and I have. Panasonic's VX300 has more accurate color rendering than any other 2011/2012 display on our shoot-out wall. As Ed and I stated, Samsung's D8000 pdp pushes red, which is exactly why flesh tones have a red tint on their skin.
> 
> With the use of Joe Kane's HD Basics test disc we were able to definitively prove that Panasonic's VX300 decodes Red, Green and Blue the best and Samsung's D8000 pushes red and has errors in the other primary and secondary colors. This red push that is inherit in the D8000 is the sole reason for the red cast on all skin tones. Joe Kane's HD Basics disc separates the Red, Green and Blue and lets you see any decoding errors. Decoding errors cannot be detected by simply reading ISF reports, but they can be seen by viewing content and when you have a test disc that isolates the primary colors.
> 
> Samsung's D8000 pdp was the most accurate for color reproduction, but the new game in town is Panasonic's reference studio monitor VX300 and it unequivocally is the color reference.
> 
> Kevin Miller agrees with Ed and I that the new reference display for color accuracy is Panasonic's new VX300.
> 
> -Robert


why wasn't the D8000 color decoding issue/erros apparent at the recent shootout from everyone there including Kevin, D-Nice and Ed?

Was this brought up during the shootout? What am I missing here?


----------



## Robert Zohn

dsskid said:


> Please explain this comment.
> Are you saying utilizing JK DVE disc, that you were able to better judge the displays color accuracy than utilizing expensive sensitive meters, pattern generators, and calibration software?


John, I'm not a certified calibrator, but did take level one and level two ISF training classes instructed by Joel silver and Kevin Miller so I'll take a crack at answering this. 

The only true test for Color Decoding is a visual one using the Color Decoder test pattern for Rec 709 on HD Basics disc. The meters and software do not tell you if the TV is decoding Rec 709 properly. You need to look at the Red, Green and Blue channels separately with the Joe Kane HD Basics test disc Color Decoding test pattern to physically look at how close the Red matches the against pure boxes and then again for the Blue and Green channels.

Does this explanation sound right to you?

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Turbe said:


> why wasn't the D8000 color decoding issue/erros apparent at the recent shootout from everyone there including Kevin, D-Nice and Ed?
> 
> Was this brought up during the shootout? What am I missing here?


It was noticed, however, Samsung's D8000 pdp still had the best color decoding when compared to all of the displays at the shoot-out.

May I add that the D8000 pdp had to have the color backed down from 50 to I believe 46 to get the best color accuracy. This also helps confirm a decoding error and the red push on the D8000. 

-Robert


----------



## Turbe

Obviously, there can be issues in between, but the display either does color decoding correctly, or it doesn't .. I know both Kevin and D-nice (I have not really discussed color decoding with Ed, sorry  ) do thoroughly check these things and Kevin normally will clearly point out if there are decoder issues in a display..

What I don't understand still, why this was not clearly mentioned and apparent at the shootout.. it's 101 must check!

I'll have to ask those guys myself and see what's going on here.


----------



## Turbe

Robert Zohn said:


> John, I'm not a certified calibrator, but did take level one and level two ISF training classes instructed by Joel silver and Kevin Miller so I'll take a crack at answering this.
> 
> The only true test for Color Decoding is a visual one using the Color Decoder test pattern for Rec 709 on HD Basics disc. The meters and software do not tell you if the TV is decoding Rec 709 properly. You need to look at the Red, Green and Blue channels separately with the Joe Kane HD Basics test disc Color Decoding test pattern to physically look at how close the Red matches the against pure boxes and then again for the Blue and Green channels.
> 
> Does this explanation sound right to you?
> 
> -Robert


Spears & Munsil also has patterns for this with separate channels


----------



## Robert Zohn

Yes, ^^ Kevin Miller used Joe Kane's HD Basics color decoding test patterns. We used the Red, Green, and Blue test patterns.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Turbe said:


> Obviously, there can be issues in between, but the display either does color decoding correctly, or it doesn't and that includes checking RGB at different brightness levels, not just 75 and 100... I know both Kevin and D-nice (I have not really discussed color decoding with Ed, sorry  ) do thoroughly check these things and Kevin normally will clearly point out if there are decoder issues in a display..
> 
> What I don't understand still, why this was not clearly mentioned and apparent at the shootout.. it's 101 must check!
> 
> I'll have to ask those guys myself and see what's going on here.


I understand and agree with everything you are saying. The explanation is that Samsung's D8000 pdp fails the color decoding test, but it does decode color better than all of the rest of the displays at the shoot-out. 

This was discussed at the shoot-out and we said the best display at the shoot-out in regard to color accuracy was the D8000 pdp, but no one said it was perfect. However, the possible misleading statement that was said is that we called it the reference for color accuracy. In retrospect I don't think we should have used that term. 

Now I can say; near reference color accuracy is Panasonic's VX300 studio reference monitor and it clearly delivers the best color accuracy of any display on our shoot-out wall. Not only can you easily see this with the test patterns, but the true color accuracy difference can be seen with video content.

-Robert


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## JimP

Robert,

Did the calibrators have to go into the service menu or were they able to access everything needed in the user menu?

Any particular problems chasing color?


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## Robert Zohn

Ed Johnson, D-Nice and Kevin Miller calibrated in the ISF Day mode. This monitor has about 10 ISF Day and 10 ISF Night modes available that can be saved. So we have ISF Day by Ed Johnson, ISF Day by D-Nice and isf day by Kevin Miller. Everything is done in the ISF user menu, no service menu adjustments are required.

No problem calibrating the VX300 in anyway.

-Robert


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## jdm271541

I have been reading this thread with great fascination.

Here in the UK Panasonic have, in their infinate widsom, priced the VX300 at around $13,000, which really is out of my price range.

The BT series, however, is within my price bracket. So my question is, would these panels have the same performance as the VX300?


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## mechman

A lot of the posts regarding the Samsung PNXXD8000 and it's color decoding have been moved to their own thread here. If anyone thinks I should move more of the posts here please feel free to let me know. I'd like to avoid confusion regarding the different displays. :T Let's keep this thread about the VX300.


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## gimp

*AVForums review by Stephen Withers*

Panasonic Professional VX300 (TH-65VX300) 65 Inch 3D Plasma TV Review (Reviewed by Stephen Withers, 25th November 2011).

Most detailed and positive review to date but unfortunately its credibility is diminished by black-level assertions given measurement by several very reputable sources.


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## Robert Zohn

gimp, I would not think that. I assume the review was done in low ambient light as I believe it should be performed and the VX300 delivers an excellent low MLL in a dark room. The article supports what Ed Johnson and I see when we did our first evaluation, which I posted on this thread. I believe you will see much of this in Kevin Miller's evaluation that was also done in my store on our famous shoot-out wall.

I think I can clarify what D-Nice, Ed Johnson, Kevin Miler and myself see as degraded blacks is because we are all seeing this monitor at my store in high ambient light. The issue with the VX300 is the anti reflective (ar) coating is not as active as consumer grade displays so when viewing in higher ambient light conditions the black level is reduced more than consumer grade panels, especially the well respected VT30 series, the super hero of a r coatings and the new highly acclaimed _"Louver"_ filter. 

In a light controlled home theater environment this is the most color accurate and beautifully detailed reference image quality of any display.

So for those who have the luxury of watching TV in a low ambient light room and have the budget and discerning taste this is an unusually good opportunity to own the display that matches your application.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

I wanted to add that the 30 bit internal professional grade video processor combined with the new bi-level ignition of each sub-pixel delivers a more finely detailed, and noise free image that exceeds all other displays in delivering a more defined and detailed image when evaluated across our shoot-out wall.

As AV Forum says, the reference color accuracy, the built-in pro grade vp, and finer gradation of the bi-level ignition of the phosphors delivers a realistic look that all users who enjoy the photographic image quality will enjoy.

-Robert


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## kamenoff

"In a light controlled home theater environment this is the most color accurate and beautifully detailed reference image quality of any display".

Robert, does this make the best TV display on the market? I undertsood that you would still prefer Elite and you were planning to get the VX300 for your bedroom? Any comparisons between both?
Cheers.


Read more: Panasonic VX300 Series Q&A - Page 14 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks for the excellent question kamenoff. The proper choice of the display that will perform best is strictly dependent upon the viewing environment. 

I'm sick in an over the top way in regard to video. So in my house and store I set-up video friendly viewing and comfortable environments wherever I have a TV and each display is paired with great audio. It starts with designing the display's placement, mounting style, and the ceiling and walls need to be non-reflective and dark toned. 

Of course, every room has its design limitations, like formal family/Living rooms or bed rooms, basements etc. That's when you need to be creative in the selection of the right TV. My living room is bright and we do daytime viewing and need the largest display possible. I can't paint the ceiling a dark color so it's flat white. The Elite 70" is absolutely perfect for this application. My 70" Elite is simply stunning on the brightest sunny day till the wee hours of the night with no moon.

My bedroom is used in the evening and I had the walls painted burgundy, except where the 65" VT30 is wall mounted on a flat black wall. This look is also very stunning and to make this experience fulfilled the 65" VT30 is the perfect choice. But this is where I'm likely to put the 65" VX300. Anyone interested in my lightly used beautifully calibrated 65" VT30? 

So to directly answer your question, yes in reflection and light controlled room the VX300 would be the best choice. You would need to add the wall mount and audio as this is just a monitor with built-in stereo amps. I like the subtle benefit from the increased steps of gradation, the video processing and overall look of this monitor.

-Robert


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## gimp

My skepticism is regarding quantitative measurements, not qualitative assessments. The review states "The VX300 also delivered reference black levels that were easily the equal of the Kuro and the VT30...." D-Nice measured the Pioneer 101FD/500M to be 0.0005ftL and the Panasonic TH-65VX300U to be 0.0052 ftL. Ed Johnson measured the Panasonic TH-65VX300U to be 0.004ftL. The Panasonic TC-P65VT30 was measured at the shoot-out to be 0.0034 ftL. The review measured 0IRE at 0.016 cd/m2 but I don't know how to convert that to ftL.

If TH-65VX300U MLL is an order of magnitude greater than the Kuro (0.0052 vs. 0.0005), and greater than the VT30 (0.0052 vs. 0.0034), how could it possibly be called reference? Also, the review equates black levels of the Kuro and VT30 which is nonsense.



Robert Zohn said:


> gimp, I would not think that. I assume the review was done in low ambient light as I believe it should be performed and the VX300 delivers an excellent low MLL in a dark room. The article supports what Ed Johnson and I see when we did our first evaluation, which I posted on this thread. I believe you will see much of this in Kevin Miller's evaluation that was also done in my store on our famous shoot-out wall.
> 
> I think I can clarify what D-Nice, Ed Johnson, Kevin Miler and myself see as degraded blacks is because we are all seeing this monitor at my store in high ambient light. The issue with the VX300 is the anti reflective (ar) coating is not as active as consumer grade displays so when viewing in higher ambient light conditions the black level is reduced more than consumer grade panels, especially the well respected VT30 series, the super hero of a r coatings and the new highly acclaimed _"Louver"_ filter.
> 
> In a light controlled home theater environment this is the most color accurate and beautifully detailed reference image quality of any display.
> 
> So for those who have the luxury of watching TV in a low ambient light room and have the budget and discerning taste this is an unusually good opportunity to own the display that matches your application.
> 
> -Robert


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## gimp

Robert, the review also suggests "The inclusion of a 10 point white balance control and secondary colour controls in the CMS would be useful". It was reported early on that there was a chance of this being added. Is there any chance of it being in a firmware update? Also, how are firmware updates done on the VX300?


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## Turbe

gimp said:


> The review measured 0IRE at 0.016 cd/m2 but I don't know how to convert that to ftL.


0.016 cd/m2 is 0.0047 fL... I don't think anyone argues the VX300 black level is near a 9G Kuro

From speaking with D-Nice, 10pt w/b controls probably are not needed on this model.. Secondary Color Controls would be useful... but, in 2011.. we really should have these Controls on a display at this price point


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## CHASLS2

Robert Zohn said:


> Thanks for the excellent question kamenoff. The proper choice of the display that will perform best is strictly dependent upon the viewing environment.
> 
> I'm sick in an over the top way in regard to video. So in my house and store I set-up video friendly viewing and comfortable environments wherever I have a TV and each display is paired with great audio. It starts with designing the display's placement, mounting style, and the ceiling and walls need to be non-reflective and dark toned.
> 
> Of course, every room has its design limitations, like formal family/Living rooms or bed rooms, basements etc. That's when you need to be creative in the selection of the right TV. My living room is bright and we do daytime viewing and need the largest display possible. I can't paint the ceiling a dark color so it's flat white. The Elite 70" is absolutely perfect for this application. My 70" Elite is simply stunning on the brightest sunny day till the wee hours of the night with no moon.
> 
> My bedroom is used in the evening and I had the walls painted burgundy, except where the 65" VT30 is wall mounted on a flat black wall. This look is also very stunning and to make this experience fulfilled the 65" VT30 is the perfect choice. But this is where I'm likely to put the 65" VX300. Anyone interested in my lightly used beautifully calibrated 65" VT30?
> 
> So to directly answer your question, yes in reflection and light controlled room the VX300 would be the best choice. You would need to add the wall mount and audio as this is just a monitor with built-in stereo amps. I like the subtle benefit from the increased steps of gradation, the video processing and overall look of this monitor.
> 
> -Robert


How much for the used 65vt30?:neener:


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## janos666

Turbe said:


> From speaking with D-Nice, 10pt w/b controls probably are not needed on this model.. Secondary Color Controls would be useful... but, in 2011.. we really should have these Controls on a display at this price point


With a good CMS, you don't need to manually adjust the secondaries at all because the color mixture is perfectly additive. If it's not additive, then you have problems anyway. And I think a few more controls may decrese that problem but that's not a proper solution. May be you get the directly adjusted and measured points right (in this case, the secondaries) and may be (probably) it affects all the millions(/billions) of colors in a good way, but it would be better to find the roots and cure the original problem which caused the imperfections in the color mixture.

In my honest opinion, this 10/20p R,G,B gray + 3/6p R,G,B/H,S,L color calibration is way too ridiculous already. And what...? 30-bit video processor to do 3D CMS in real-time with "small enough" imperfections? And you ask for more controls to minimize them???
Wake up already! There are way more efficient solutions for 3D CMS: 3DLUT processing.

Look at this monitor as an example: EIZO CG243W. This professional display was one of the firsts which implemented internal 3DLUT processing but many others followed since then. Even some relatively cheap semi-professional grade monitors use internal 3DLUTs already (and the only software limitation on these lower tier models is that they don't let you reprogram those internal 3DLUTs for custom calibrations - but they sell them with a decent factory calibration and it's just marketing, not technological limitation...)

With a display like this, you put your sensor on the screen, hit the NEXT button, wait 10-20 minutes and that's it. You virtually have a perfectly calibrated display. The only limitations are only the resolution and precision of the 3DLUT and the display panel itself (+ how many time you have to take measurements -> more measured points = better result ; and it's fully automatic, so...).
But you virtually have direct control over all the billions of colors in the whole 3D color gamut! Not just a few grays and some primary colors but all of them!
This kind of calibration usually results in dE2000 values well below 1.0 for every possible mixed colors, not just some directly measured and manually adjusted points.
You can basically "redirect" any possible (3D) input colors to any (3D) device colors.
You can even mirror your gamma curve or linearize the tonal response, whatever you want. You can do anything with those colors which are physically displayable on the device. It doesn't matter what were the original characteristics (of course, you can only emulate narrower gamuts, and you can't exceed the precision of the panel itself, but other than that... you can do basically anything...).

This is perfectly compatible with all possible color spaces: full or limited range RGB, YCC or even CIE XYZ inputs, sRGB, AdobeRGB, Rec709, or any custom color spaces with any kind of tonal response (~gamma).

And a 8bit->16bit 3DLUT (256x256x256 3D matrix resolution with 16-bit values) is virtually perfect for everything you may ever ask. Even a 7bit->12-bit should do miracles when compared with the 30-bit real-time (but imperfect) image processing of the VX300.
(Of course, you need a one time calculation with floating point precision to create the 3DLUT. But that's it...)


Now, think about it for some seconds and ask this questions from yourself:

-Which one should I ask from the display manufacturers?

A: Even more points for manual gray-scale calibration (10? no, 20? No, make 30...). Even more points for color gamut controls: give me 10p primaries, 10p secondaries, 10p terciers, 10p blalblabla... no, make them 20p... A bunch of manual controls just to minimize the side-effects of the imperfections in the real-time color processing which will never be perfect. (Ok, nothing is perfect. But with the same real-time processing power which grants you a "good enough" or "tolerable" result, you could get excellent results if you use 3DLUTs. It's more efficient.)

B: Implement a 3DLUT based solution. -> Zero manual tweaking. No more "color decoding issues" at all, just accurate colors.


Another positive side: The internal processor does nothing else but a simple interpolation. So, in case somebody made a mistake, it's easy to solve because the 3DLUT calculation is done by external computers. The TV itself simply can't make a mistake with a simple interpolation (or all the engineer, the programmer and the quality control assistant should be fired already). And it's way easier to fix a computer software than issue a firmware update for a semi-programmable internal SoC.
Not to mention that the 3DLUT format could be standardized, so you could use any third-party 3DLUT compiler softwares in case the manufacturer's own software isn't up to the task, so...


So, I ask again: Do you really want even more expensive real-time 3D CMS with tons of manual adjustments or do you want a clean solution?

It exists, well understood and already proved it's value since years. I think it would be the time to start using it. Even for consumer level displays but at least for these expensive (semi-)professional displays!


-----

I see this current YCC color space based internal color management with more and more manual controls as a dead end. And unfortunately even the "smartest" and "most creative" people of the industry seem to be too blind to see this. Or I don't know. May be they simply don't care or they have their own good reasons to keep the things as they are and be silent about the background.


Let's see this example: You mentioned D-Nice. I know him from reputation and some forum posts. I think he is a smart guy with a lot of experience and knowledge. But I am not sure what he really have in his mind when he says things like: "color decoding shouldn't be an issue since many years".
Does he realize this current image processing solution is a dead end and he tries to cynically imply it? Or he is just one of those who believe in the "brute force" and ready to wait until the brute force methods (more points, more controls, more and more expensive but very inefficient video processors...) achieves their goal and break the wall of the dead end (get the unavoidable errors low enough until it's perfectly acceptable - by the cost of way too expensive image processors which work inefficiently and apply a lot of "workarounds" to achieve their goal...)?


There are some well known rules of the 3D color corrections. But the current image processors doesn't have enough precision and processing power to make everything correctly in real-time. They have to make shortcuts and work around the problems, optimize everything until it's "good enough" but still "cheap" (cheap in hardware requirements and thus in money...).


-----

Ok, I know a limitation of the 3DLUT processing: It's not ABL friendly. (That's what stops me from using external 3DLUT processing for consumer grade PDPs with good results. The ABL messes up the precise corrections + the internal YCC recoding is another error factory which is hard to work around externally.)
But ABL is just so stupid and harmful anyway. It also degrades, or at least over-complicates the real-time processing too.
The ABL -as we know it today- should be excluded from the PDP designs. The panel should be electrically limited to a reasonable peak light output but otherwise remain effectively stable. Just turn on the power saving features by defaults but let them all to be turned off fully for custom calibration modes.


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## gimp

Turbe said:


> 0.016 cd/m2 is 0.0047 fL...


Thanks for the conversion. Still not as good as VT30.




Turbe said:


> ... I don't think anyone argues the VX300 black level is near a 9G Kuro


Stephen Withers did exactly that in his review.


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## gimp

Stephen Withers said in his review that we could expect to see some of the VX300 improvements put in the consumer line (VT30 successor?). Seems unlikely to me.


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## janos666

gimp said:


> Stephen Withers said in his review that we could expect to see some of the VX300 improvements put in the consumer line (VT30 successor?). Seems unlikely to me.


I read that sentence twice too. For me, it sounds like a simple guess, more like an expression of hope, not an insider info or even an "educated guess".

By the way, there are some promising rumors about the 2012 consumer models. In theory, they can be even more advanced than the VX300 (in theory... :rofl.


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## Turbe

gimp said:


> Stephen Withers did exactly that in his review.


I just read that review again.. the first time I thought he was only referenced vs the VT30...




> The VX300 also delivered reference black levels that were easily the equal of the Kuro and the VT30 and the resulting images had a beautiful sense of depth to them.





> However it was the black levels that really impressed and were as good, if not better, than those of either our reference Kuro or the VT30. We measured 0IRE at 0.016 cd/m2


Not sure why they are posting that.. they don't even provide the black level measurement for the 9G Kuro they reviewed (at least from what I have read from the official AVForums reviews), the KRP-500A and I am not sure they even have the proper tools back in 2008 to measure that. lddude:

Of course, the rest of us actually have that data now.... :devil:


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## janos666

Turbe said:


> Not sure why they are posting that.. they don't even provide the black level measurement for the 9G Kuro they reviewed (official AVForums), the KRP-500A and I am not sure they even have the proper tools back in 2008 to measure that. lddude:
> 
> Of course, the rest of us actually have that data now.... :devil:


I think they didn't update the old review with the new numbers but they can measure the black level of their old Kuro now.
I think they included the black level readings (both MLL and ANSI) of their Kuro in one of their TV reviews. I think it was one of the VT30Es, I guess the 50VT30.

Edit: Yah, here it is:
http://www.avforums.com/review/Panasonic-VT30-TX-P50VT30-42VT30-50VT30-55VT30-65VT30-3D-Plasma-Review.html



> Our 2 year old Pioneer LX5090 Kuro measured 0.03 cd/m2 at 0IRE and 110.1 cd/m2 at 100IRE calibrated (3,670:1 approx). Ansi-contrast measurements on the Pioneer were 0.04 cd/m2 black and 85.4 cd/m2 white averaged results, with the VT30 managing 0.03 cd/m2 black and 72.4 cd/m2 white averaged results.


----
Really? Do you have MLL-peak and ANSI contrast measurements for 8G Kuros? 
I have been searching for the ANSI measurements of the PDP-LX508D some time ago.


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## Turbe

I saw that reference on another forum.. I tend to agree with D-nice's reply..



D-Nice said:


> If there 5090 measures higher than 0.004fL, its a dud, plain and simple.


However, the Pioneer Non-H (9G) are an interesting Model line.. there are some unpublished differences vs the other European 9G Models.. perhaps I'll post that info one day..

They should accurately measure the KRP or an LX H model and provide that data.. I believe they now have a Klein K-10 which is one of the few meters available that can measure the Kuro's black level performance.. I actually have a K-10 myself...


You can see here (image from their original review) that their equipment back in 2008 was having trouble < 20% Stimuli

*EDIT:* Can't post the link with img tags to their graph image (and I'm to lazy now to copy the image and upload here)... Just take a look here


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## gimp

janos666 said:


> By the way, there are some promising rumors about the 2012 consumer models. In theory, they can be even more advanced than the VX300 (in theory... :rofl.


Awesome! Where did you see that?


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## janos666

Turbe said:


> You can see here (image from their original review) that their equipment back in 2008 was having trouble < 20% Stimuli
> 
> *EDIT:* Can't post the link with img tags to their graph image (and I'm to lazy now to copy the image and upload here)... Just take a look here


Ah, HCFR graphs. The Color HCFR software doesn't support too many sensors. I guess they used something like an i1d2 colorimeter or an i1Pro spectro, may be a DPT-94 (one of the best -cheap- colorimeters from those years). (I can't imagine them with a "HCFR probe" but who knows :bigsmile.


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## janos666

gimp said:


> Awesome! Where did you see that?


http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showthread.php?7905-Panasonic-Plasma-Insiders-Discussion-Thread&p=288187&viewfull=1#post288187



> we will have a new driving scheme for our 2012 line.in addition to many new advancements in the panel. filter. etc..its all brand new!! not tweaked!! and it looks stunning.


I won't judge it for you how reliable or accurate this guy is (he is a PR guy, so...). But it made me optimistic about 2012, we will see it soon.


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## Robert Zohn

gimp said:


> Robert, the review also suggests "The inclusion of a 10 point white balance control and secondary colour controls in the CMS would be useful". It was reported early on that there was a chance of this being added. Is there any chance of it being in a firmware update? Also, *how are firmware updates done on the VX300?*


Via the ethernet RJ45 input on the rear.

-Robert



CHASLS2 said:


> How much for the used 65vt30?:neener:


$3k, FB fixed, barely broken-in, ISF Day, Night, 3D and Custom calibrated in all four HDMI inputs.

-Robert


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## Robert Zohn

janos666 said:


> http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showthread.php?7905-Panasonic-Plasma-Insiders-Discussion-Thread&p=288187&viewfull=1#post288187
> 
> 
> 
> I won't judge it for you how reliable or accurate this guy is (he is a PR guy, so...). But it made me optimistic about 2012, we will see it soon.


Actually I know this gentleman and he is a senior exec. of product development and a very lovely person to boot. Very reliable source. 

-Robert


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## buzzard767

janos666 said:


> Wake up already! There are way more efficient solutions for 3D CMS: 3DLUT processing.
> 
> 
> With a display like this, you put your sensor on the screen, hit the NEXT button, wait 10-20 minutes and that's it. You virtually have a perfectly calibrated display. The only limitations are only the resolution and precision of the 3DLUT and the display panel itself (+ how many time you have to take measurements -> more measured points = better result ; and it's fully automatic, so...).
> But you virtually have direct control over all the billions of colors in the whole 3D color gamut! Not just a few grays and some primary colors but all of them!


Are you surprised that no one has commented? I would think that knowledge of a vastly superior display in the future such as OLED and 3D LUTs would get a lot of attention. Anyway, 3D LUTs are coming and they are coming very soon. Light Illusion in London is working on a LUT holding box to work with their LightSpace software, THX's marriage to Cinespace might come up with a LUT solution, and the Spectracal/ee Color Processor union just has to do something along these lines because the ee Box is no biggy as is. They _must_ have a plan....


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## kamenoff

Guys, I was wondering if somebody is using Lumagen Radiance video processor with their plasmas and whether they have noticed any improvement in the PQ.


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## vic_0002

Robert, how have the VX300s been selling? and do you have any further news/observations regarding this monitor's performance? I know the color accuracy is superb from what I've read but I guess no one is being blown away by the black levels...

I ask because I'm interested in a monitor of this type, plus I don't like looks of the 2012 Panasonic TVs (those silver strips don't appeal to me at all). The VX300 is much more attractive... plus I'd rather invest in my own seperate sound system.


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## Robert Zohn

Vic ^ Sales have been minimal in the home theater market, but I understand the 65" VX300 and their brothers 42" TH-42BT300U and 50" TH-50BT300U enjoy a commanding market share in the professional, broadcast and BD mastering and authoring Hollywood creative BD development.

You are absolutely correct that the color accuracy is excellent. The VX300's black level is slightly higher (worse) then the VT30, but still blacker, (better) than Samsung's PNxxD8000. 

The one issue for the average consumer use to consider is that VX300's a/r filter is not as dynamic as the VT30 and D8000, so in higher ambient light conditions the VX300's black level drops a little faster. Professional reference grade pdps would never put a louver filter on the panel as it may introduce an image reproduction defect.

So if you use your display mostly in the evenings and or have window treatments then the VX300 is a good choice for those who are looking for reference color accuracy and professional advanced features. 

-Robert


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## janos666

Robert Zohn said:


> Professional reference grade pdps would never put a louver filter on the panel as it may introduce an image reproduction defect.


LG likes to use stupidly aggressive AR coating on p/H-IPS panels (which are supposed to be used by both semi- and real professional LCD monitors).
In that case, the coating also serve as a physical protection layer for the vulnerable LCD panel but still, an LG p/H-IPS is stupidly grainy when compared to a Samsung PVA LCD...

The coating on 2011 consumer Panasonic PDPs in nothing when compared to the coating of a usual LCD monitor coating (not a consumer TV but prof monitor ; considering graininess and other side-effects).

But I like the idea. If they sold two versions of the G/VT30 line: one with no and one with a decent AR coating, I would pick the coating-less version for my dark room. (I don't need any AR filter in the dark but there is no filter with absolutely zero issues, even if those are really minimal.)


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## vic_0002

Thanks Robert... Am I understanding this correctly, the VX300 does have an a/r filter? Only that it's not a strong/effective one like the consumer market plasmas use? There seems to be little mention of the a/r filter at all when I look online.


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## Robert Zohn

Correct, Vic. Panasonic's TH-65VX300U has a a/r filter, but not as aggressive as the new louver filters that Panasonic and Samsung are using.

-Robert


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## Plutotype

Dear Mr. Zohn and folks,

This is my first post on the forum, so I would like to say hello to you and everyone else. I really appreciate the value of the information which can be found here. 

Although in 2011 I purchased a VT30, just after 2 months I´m looking to buy the VX300. Why? The reasons are fluctuating brightness, motion noising around pixels, false contouring/posterisation + motion bluriness ( double images?), weak shadow detail, buzzing ( not all sets ). Because Mr. Zohn seems to be the only person who has direct experience with VT30/VX300/Elite, I would like to ask him a couple of questions:

1. Did you notice any of the VT30 issues that I have mentioned on the VX300?
2. Can you please compare VT30s overall brightness with VX300 when calibrated? I hope VT30 is not brighter than VX300, because that could be a show stopper for me ( although I have medium to low light living room, 7pm+ usage is 90% ).
3. How would you compare motion processing performance of the VX300 vs. Elite? I mean motion artefacts like VT30 has ( visible especially on SD/compressed content, HD better but not enough ).

Thanks
Pluto


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## OCDelightful

Turbe said:


> However, the Pioneer Non-H (9G) are an interesting Model line.. there are some unpublished differences vs the other European 9G Models.. perhaps I'll post that info one day..


As a Pioneer Non-H owner, I'm very interested in this kind of information


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## gimp

Purchase any of the models below and a qualifying terminal board (TY-FB9HD, TY-FB10HD,TY-FB11HD, or TY-FB30DHD3D) now through June 30, 2012 and receive a cash rebate of up to $700.ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panason.../Panasonic-Displays-Debit-Card-Claim-Form.pdf


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