# First HT system set up settings_Questions???



## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

I bought my first AV receiver, a used unit from GW. 
I have a few questions for our existing tv and dvd player hook-up to receiver.

*Equipment:*
Denon DVD-1930ci dvd player (2006), Yamaha RX-V659 avr (2006), Sony Bravia LCD tv (2010)

*How I have it hooked up:*
DVD to TV via HDMI cable, with rca analogue interconnects from tv to avr.
I'm thinking of getting a toslink optical cable from tv to avr instead of the analogue interconnects.

DVD to AVR via coaxial digital cable, as well as RCA analogue interconnects.
Should I have the dvd player set to PCM or Bitsteam? Is this good for movies and cds too?

I have avr set to auto on both the tv and dvd player inputs, so it will choose dts first and analogue audio secondly. 
I'm missing the remote and mic so I have to do everything manually from front panel.

Thanks all!


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

The digital audio cables (toslink or coaxial) will offer better sound than regular analog RCA's. You shouldn't need the analog RCA connection from your DVD player to your AVR if you have the toslink connected.

Setting your DVD player to Bitstream will send the uncompressed digital signal to your AVR to be processed and changed to analog to play on your speakers. Setting it to PCM the DVD player will do the conversion. Generally you would want your AVR to do the processing because it would have a better DAC (digital to analog converter).


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

Thanks Infrasonic. Thats good info on PCM vs. DTS.

My Denon universal player uses dual Burr-Brown PCM1738 192khz/24 bit audio DACs. The Yamaha AVR isn't as specific and only states Burr-Brown 192khz/24 bit audio DAC. Should I still use the AVR to do the processing instead of the source?


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

Good question, I'm not sure which would be better. If no one else responds with a definitive answer you could just try to see if you can notice a difference by going back and forth between those modes playing the same content at the same volume.


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

In regards to seeing which unit's dacs are better, are you saying that if I switch the player from DTS output to PCM, and will this use the players dac instead of the receivers? Or are you saying I should use the players analogue outputs, and compare to the receiver with analogue or digital input?

Another question using 5.1 speakers while the receiver is capable of 7.1. Should I use the rear/back or rear/side hook-up, or doesn't it matter as far as program material is concerned? The rear speakers will be 10 behind the sofa on the rear wall.


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## CdnTiger (Feb 16, 2007)

With 5 speakers, you would want to connect the rear/side speakers. The back speakers only come into play in 7 channel systems (or more). If you want to see whether you can hear a difference between the DACs on your player vs AVR, I believe you'd need to send the audio signal through the analog cable connections to use the player's DAC, and through a digital connection for the AVR's DAC. A DAC is a Digital-to-Analog-Converter, so any signal transmitted after passing through a DAC must by definition not be digital - unless you want to convert back into digital, which is generally frowned upon.


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

mjcmt said:


> In regards to seeing which unit's dacs are better, are you saying that if I switch the player from DTS output to PCM, and will this use the players dac instead of the receivers?


Basically yes, you would change the settings on the DVD player from PCM to Bitstream to see if you notice a difference while using a digital audio connection. Btw, DTS is only a form of compression along with Dolby Digital; PCM and Bitstream are the means by which those are transmitted from the DVD player to the AVR. Your DVD player manual can be found here.



mjcmt said:


> Another question using 5.1 speakers while the receiver is capable of 7.1. Should I use the rear/back or rear/side hook-up, or doesn't it matter as far as program material is concerned? The rear speakers will be 10 behind the sofa on the rear wall.


You would use the "Surround" speaker terminals, the Surround Back are for if you are running a 7.1 system. That part of your AVR manual can be found here.

Edit: Tig brings up a good point, you may need to run an analog cable to the AVR for each channel (C & Sub, L&R, SL&R) to use the PCM mode on the DVD player but I'm not 100% sure. Regardless, any difference in audible audio quality between the two DAC's will be very minor or indistinguishable depending on your speakers.


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## CdnTiger (Feb 16, 2007)

Edit: Tig brings up a good point, you may need to run an analog cable to the AVR for each channel (C & Sub, L&R, SL&R) to use the PCM mode on the DVD player but I'm not 100% sure. Regardless, any difference in audible audio quality between the two DAC's will be very minor or indistinguishable depending on your speakers.[/QUOTE]

I agree that any difference will be small, and probably not noticeable in a lot of systems (inadequate speaker performance, compromised speaker/listener placement, poor listening environment, etc.). That doesn't seem to stop us from trying remedies and buying toys that make significant others either roll their eyes or stare back blankly at us, though! :nerd:

As I understand it, PCM is still a digital signal. It is what is transmitted through a digital connection if you get the player to decode DD or DTS internally instead of bitstreaming it to the AVR. In this case the AVR converts the digital PCM signal to analog using its DAC. If you are transmitting the signal through analog cables from the player to the AVR, then decoding the DD/DTS and converting to analog via the DAC are all done within the player. And as you said, the differences between these methods is small, but some on these forums do notice a difference.

*Edit: hmm, I haven't perfected the quote functionality, apparently...*


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

Which movie setting should I use PLII, PLIIx, NEO 6. And for a 2 channel input I also have 2 channel, 7 channel, straight. This is too crazy. Way too many settings, and these are the easy ones. Can't the AVR just decode what is on the dvd? 

I have not run wire to the rear speakers yet, and don't have a sub either, so I will be using it in 3.0 tonight. Funny you can't turn the sub output off, but I guess it doesn't matter because it is LFE. I set the xover to 40hz, hoping it won't cut to much info from the LCR speakers.

Ah, I understand the pure direct setting fine and music does sound nice with this setting. Now I know why it took me so long to get my first AVR...to complicated. I do enjoy the simplicity and purity of a good 2 channel system. That being said this Yamaha AVR does have a very nice, peppy, and musical sound...if I could just figure it out. LOL


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## CdnTiger (Feb 16, 2007)

mjcmt said:


> Which movie setting should I use PLII, PLIIx, NEO 6. This is too crazy. Way too many settings, and these are the easy ones. Can't the AVR just decode what is on the dvd?


PLII, PLIIx, & Neo 6 all use processing to convert a signal from its original number of speakers to some higher number. For example, PLII can "create" a 5 channel mix from a 2 channel source, while PLIIx can "create" a 7 channel mix from a 2 or 5 channel source. NEO 6 is similar, I think. If the movie is encoded in Dolby or DTS, you probably wouldn't want to use PLII, and PLIIx or NEO 6 could be used to create a 7 channel mix from a 5 channel mix. You should be able to turn these all off and just use the standard Dolby or DTS mix.



mjcmt said:


> And for a 2 channel input I also have 2 channel, 7 channel, straight.


I'm only guessing here since I have no experience with your AVR, but: 2 channel is played through your left/right speakers with whatever processing options are enabled, 7 channel plays the 2 channel input through all 7 speakers using some processing to figure out which speaker receives what signal (not the same as PLII processing - a separation of front soundstage from rear soundstage is not attempted, it's more like a party mode), and straight is played through your left/right without processing. This would be the same as the pure direct mode you mentioned, I think, so I'm probably wrong... please don't hold me responsible for erroneous information! :innocent:


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

CdnTiger,

Thanks for more feedback. I'm still trying to figure it out. 

1. Is the digital output from a DVD player 2 channel and therefore needs the processing to make it 5.1? 
2. Similar with a TVs digital optical output for TV programs? 
3. What about an analogue stereo output from a TV, as I don't have an optical cable yet. Should I use 7.1 stereo selection or PLII movie, Neo6, etc.
4. There is one more setting called Nueral Surround. It says its for processing any source.
5. I did find out that Straight passes through tone correction and Pure Direct bypasses everything. It is much cleaner, especially for music.


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## CdnTiger (Feb 16, 2007)

You're welcome. Hopefully I'm not just confusing you more.



mjcmt said:


> 1. Is the digital output from a DVD player 2 channel and therefore needs the processing to make it 5.1?


Generally speaking, no. The digital output is capable of transmitting the full 7.1 (and obviously 5.1) Dolby Digital and/or DTS signal present on a DVD. It can also transmit fewer channels if need be or if the DVD/CD is stereo only. You would only use processing if you wanted to artificially expand the mix that the disc was mastered with into a mix played through more speakers. 



mjcmt said:


> 2. Similar with a TVs digital optical output for TV programs?


I can't say specifically how the digital optical output was designed for your TV, but this type of output is capable of behaving the same as what I wrote above.



mjcmt said:


> 3. What about an analogue stereo output from a TV, as I don't have an optical cable yet. Should I use 7.1 stereo selection or PLII movie, Neo6, etc.


You're going to be losing much of the effect of surround sound with this hopefully temporary connection, but for movies you'd likely want PLII or NEO 6, whichever sounds better to you. They're two different means of achieving the same end. I could be wrong, but I think the 7.1 stereo option would copy the signal being sent to the L/R speakers into the other speakers as well - definitely not ideal for watching movies.



mjcmt said:


> 4. There is one more setting called Nueral Surround. It says its for processing any source.


I'm not too familiar with it, but check out the description here:
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/DTS_(DTSI)/Dts_Neural_Surround



mjcmt said:


> 5. I did find out that Straight passes through tone correction and Pure Direct bypasses everything. It is much cleaner, especially for music.


:T


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## CdnTiger (Feb 16, 2007)

I wonder if you could optimize your connections between components? Is your DVD player capable of sending video through the HDMI output while simultaneously sending audio through either the analog 5.1 or digital outputs? This may not be allowed due to the industry's fear of copying...

If so, I'd recommend the following connections (your individual circumstances may be different than my preferences, though):
DVD to TV = HDMI
DVD to AVR = either digital or 5.1 analog (5.1 analog is required if you want to play high resolution surround sound DVD Audio or SACD's, not to be confused with standard DVDs and CDs)
AVR to TV = nothing

If not, try this:
DVD to TV = component cables (three separate cables for the video signal). The problem with this is that you end up converting the video from digital to analog, then back to digital for display on your LCD or plasma, which will reduce picture quality somewhat. Your call.
DVD to AVR = as above
AVR to TV = nothing

Good luck!


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

CdnTiger said:


> If so, I'd recommend the following connections (your individual circumstances may be different than my preferences, though):
> DVD to TV = HDMI
> DVD to AVR = either digital or 5.1 analog (5.1 analog is required if you want to play high resolution surround sound DVD Audio or SACD's, not to be confused with standard DVDs and CDs)
> AVR to TV = nothing


Getting there.

I'm using coax digital from dvd to avr, and have yet tried 5.1 from dvd to avr because I read there is a sync problem with the picture that uses hdmi from dvd to tv. Is it really true that 5.1 is higher resolution audio vs. digital output from a dvd for movies? I thought the 5.1 was mostly intended for sacd, which I don't own any, but I will try the 5.1 analogue output and compare.

I think I have to use an optical cable from tv to avr to get surround, because I only have over-the-air HD programming, no cable or satellite.



CdnTiger said:


> The digital output is capable of transmitting the full 7.1 (and obviously 5.1) Dolby Digital and/or DTS signal present on a DVD. It can also transmit fewer channels if need be or if the DVD/CD is stereo only. You would only use processing if you wanted to artificially expand the mix that the disc was mastered with into a mix played through more speakers.


Are you saying it doesn't matter which codec setting I use when playing a dvd via the digital output, and the avr will recognize the correct setting. That would be wonderful.


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

Sorry to post again in such a short time. I just added an optical cable from tv to avr and what a difference in sound quality. Like a veil has been removed from the sound. Now I can play with all the codecs. So many choices. 

Here is what I noticed w/ the tv sound on the auto setting...
'Surround Standard' plays back Dolby Digital if the program has it or Stereo if no surround is present.
'Surround Enhanced' lets me choose PLII movie, Neo6 movie, and Neutral Surround. If no surround is present it plays mostly through the center channel.

Is this what you have noticed? I don't know which is better though.


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## natescriven (Jan 12, 2011)

I like the 'standard' surround mode better. Your TV might not pass every format from the DVD player(such as DTS? maybe?) or have the full bandwidth, so that is why I think it is recommended to run the optical straight from the DVD player to the receiver. But if you're happy with sound than it might be fine. If you do run the sound through the tv, make sure the TV isn't downconverting your sound if possible.


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

natescriven said:


> I like the 'standard' surround mode better. Your TV might not pass every format from the DVD player(such as DTS? maybe?) or have the full bandwidth, so that is why I think it is recommended to run the optical straight from the DVD player to the receiver. But if you're happy with sound than it might be fine. If you do run the sound through the tv, make sure the TV isn't downconverting your sound if possible.


Thanks for info on standard for tv sound.
I'm not running the sound from dvd through tv to avr. The dvd goes direct to avr thru coax digital cable for sound, and hdmi from dvd to tv for video.


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## natescriven (Jan 12, 2011)

So, you are using the TV to change channels and then sending the sound through the optical to the receiver? Sorry If I'm being a little slow.  Many over the air programs have surround sound so make sure you're getting it at the receiver.


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## CdnTiger (Feb 16, 2007)

mjcmt said:


> I'm using coax digital from dvd to avr, and have yet tried 5.1 from dvd to avr because I read there is a sync problem with the picture that uses hdmi from dvd to tv. Is it really true that 5.1 is higher resolution audio vs. digital output from a dvd for movies? I thought the 5.1 was mostly intended for sacd, which I don't own any, but I will try the 5.1 analogue output and compare.


If you won't be playing SACDs or their competing format, DVD Audios, then I probably wouldn't bother with the 5.1. There shouldn't be much difference. This goes back to whether you want to compare the DACs in the DVD player vs the AVR.



mjcmt said:


> I think I have to use an optical cable from tv to avr to get surround, because I only have over-the-air HD programming, no cable or satellite.


Good point. I'm pretty sure there's no OTA HD programming up here, so that never even crossed my mind.



mjcmt said:


> Are you saying it doesn't matter which codec setting I use when playing a dvd via the digital output, and the avr will recognize the correct setting. That would be wonderful.


Like nate, I'd likely use the standard surround mode. It sounds like that leaves the sound "untouched" coming through the speakers the program is encoded for. The surround enhanced mode would be used if you wanted to try to get surround sound effects from a program that's really only in stereo (programs already encoded for surround sound should remain untouched, I think). There's not really a good or bad choice here, just personal preference.

Glad to hear it's all coming together for you.


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## mjcmt (Aug 30, 2010)

I'm getting a handle on using the AVR. Sounds really nice. I'm still indecisive on which codec is best, as they all have there their strengths. 

For TV, I generally use 'auto' and programs in Dolby digital sound nice and dynamic. Those that don't have it, I use PLII or Neo6. I'm overwhelmed by all the different sound fields so I don't use them.

For DVDs I use 'auto' 'standard' or 'enhanced'. Again, I don't use all the different sound fields.

CD's from the universal player sound best using its internal DACs via a MIT Terminator2 to an analogue input on the AVR w/ 'pure direct' vs. digital out to the AVR w/ 'pure direct'. I haven't tried 5.1 from the player to the AVR.

FM sounds best in 'straight' and better with 'pure direct'. Somtimes I use 7.1 stereo setting for background.

That's all I know.


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