# ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD Discussion Thread



## Radtech51

The Elite PRP-605XFD and PRO-70X5FD. 

Intelligent Variable Contrast
RGBY+Y Pixel Color Technology
Precision Color Plus Pixel Technology
Gen-Ten LCD / UV2A Brightness
FluidMotion Smoothness
Full Array LED Backlighting
Local LED Dimming

Kevin Miller's Review. 
"The PRO-60X5FD, a full array LED backlit LCD panel with Local Dimming Technology, produces superior blacks to the vaunted reference Pioneer Elite panels, and is definitely one of the best performing most color accurate flat panel displays available today."

This is my 1st post so I'm unable to list any URL's but I just thought I'd post a few pointers to get the conversation going. If you find any new news or professional reviews on this display please post it here. Additionally if you own the Elite or plan on getting one I'd love to here what you have to say, thanks.


CNET Settings:



> Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD in a dim room via the HDMI input at 1080p/24 resolution. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html
> 
> --Picture Settings menu
> 
> AV MODE: MOVIE THX
> Intelligent Variable Contrast: Local Dimming On
> OPC: Off
> Backlight: +1
> Contrast: +32
> Brightness: +1
> Color: 0
> Tint: 0
> Sharpness: 0
> 
> --Advanced sub-menu
> 
> C.M.S. -Hue
> R: 0
> Y: +3
> G: +4
> C: +2
> B: -3
> M: +3
> 
> C.M.S. -Saturation
> R: +3
> Y: -2
> G: -1
> C: +1
> B: +1
> M: 0
> 
> C.M.S. -Value
> R: +2
> Y: +2
> G: 0
> C: -12
> B: +3
> M: -2
> 
> Color Temp sub-menu:
> Color Temp: Low [grayed out when 10 Point is "On]
> 
> [10 Point Setting Off]
> R Gain (LO): +1
> G Gain (LO): -5
> B Gain (LO): -3
> R Gain (HI): +2
> G Gain (HI): -4
> B Gain (HI): -4
> 
> [10 Point Setting On]
> Position +1: R Gain +2, G Gain 0, B Gain 0
> Position +2: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -3
> Position +3: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
> Position +4: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -2
> Position +5: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -4
> Position +6: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -5
> Position +7: R Gain -2, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
> Position +8: R Gain -1, G Gain -6, B Gain -6
> Position +9: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain +5
> Position +10: R Gain 0, G Gain 0, B Gain -1
> 
> Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
> Quad Pixel Plus: Off
> Active Contrast: Off
> Gamma Adjustment: 0
> Film Mode: Off
> Digital Noise Reduction: Off
> Monochrome: Off
> Range of OPC: [any]


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## Robert Zohn

Hi Radtech51, nice to see you here! I just posted more photos of the new Elite PRO-xxX5FD on our FaceBook page

I now this new TV very well so fire away with any questions.

Enjoy!

-Robert


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## mechman

For anyone wondering, Pioneer licensed the 'Elite' tag to Sharp for high end flat panel displays.

Robert - Welcome to HTS. :T While I've never had contact with you, I've bumped into you over at dbstalk.


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## Robert Zohn

Hi mechman, correct ^^. And thanks for the nice welcome to HTS.

And may I add that Pioneer's Kuro pdp and the video processing development engineers and management in Japan worked side-by-side with Sharp's top product engineers to create this new display. The only goal was to build the world's best LCD/LED TV.

-Robert


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## Radtech51

Hi Robert! It's so good to see you again my friend, very awesome! I'm super excited about this Elite and I can't Waite to see it in action for myself. I'm sure I will be blown away with the visual quality, from what I've been reading and from what everyone has been posting about this Elite it's the real thing! 

I just saw you put up some more pictures nice!


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## Radtech51

Ok so here come some questions buddy. 

1. Do you think the RGB+Y really works well in these new Elite's? I know Pioneer helped work with Sharp to make that technology work specifically with the new Elite's. Do you notice it brings out the yellow and gold tones more in the picture? And do you think this will be a new game changer to the industry in picture quality because of it?

2. I been reading some posts about the glare on these new Elite's, do you think it's anything to be concerned about beyond the current displays out there right now? People do love to exaggerate things I know and any minor false found is blown way out of proportion especially in this case. 

3. Can you tell us buddy how the Elite stands out in your store among the other displays next to it?

4. Have you wall mounted your PRO-705XFD yet? ;p


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## Robert Zohn

Radtech51, all good questions. I have not liked the fourth yellow pixel in the past, but I believe it has been redesigned so we'll know more when we test and evaluate the TV at out shoot-out. Also the yellow pixel can be by-passed in the THX and ISF day and ISF night modes.

All LCD panels have had glossy screens since 2009. So unfortunately, one of the advantages of LCD over plasma is no longer in their favor. Reflection is an issue with all pdp and LCD screens and this year's Elite is no worse or better than most other panels.

I would like to wait for the shoot-out to answer the image quality differences among all of the TVs we have set-up for the shoot-out. Their are so many pq attributes that it would be difficult to give you a simple answer on your very important question.

Yes, our 70" Elite is wall mounted and is so beautiful on the wall that everyone who visits our store is in shock and awe.

-Robert


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## rockaway1836

Hey Radtech51 thanks for the link that led me here ! I talked myself in and out of this set so many times already it's not funny. I need to keep getting all the info I can. Looks like this is the place to get it. 

Robert, great seeing you here! Did you know there's a manhunt going on, on another site ? Seems there's quite a few people looking for you!!!! lol


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## Radtech51

Thanks for that information my friend! I just can't Waite to finally see this beauty in person for the first time. I just had a few more questions so here they go. 

1. Allot of people are asking about the response time for video gaming. Have you had a chance to try out a Playstation, X-Box or Computer gaming on the new Elite to see how it works out? I'd be curious myself to see how it works as a computer monitor, so any feedback on this or any numbers you could get would be great. 

2. You mintioned the Yellow pixel can be by-passed in THX ISF-Day and Night modes. Did Kevin M. disable the Yellow sub-pixel when he calibrated the Elite?

3. While in your store on display which picture mode do you have it set to? Please not Torch mode like Magnolia Video does lol. Oh and do you find most people when they enter your store run straight for the Elite?


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## Radtech51

rockaway1836 said:


> Hey Radtech51 thanks for the link that led me here ! I talked myself in and out of this set so many times already it's not funny. I need to keep getting all the info I can. Looks like this is the place to get it.
> 
> Robert, great seeing you here! Did you know there's a manhunt going on, on another site ? Seems there's quite a few people looking for you!!!! lol


Sure thing! It's great to have you here buddy, so when is your Elite set to arrive?


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## rockaway1836

I have the wife about 80% sold . I am and have been looking at a November time frame from the get go. I have been a day one buyer many times already, on items such as BD, HD DVD, 3D, and 70 inch LED LCD. This time I just want to sit back just a little bit. When your'e talking this much money, I want to make sure it's all it's says it is.


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## cleveland plasma

I just can't wait till these get in the hands of end users so we can get some real on hand reviews


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## Radtech51

cleveland plasma said:


> I just can't wait till these get in the hands of end users so we can get some real on hand reviews


+1


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## cleveland plasma

Thanks for posting this link Rad, hope you do not mind, I clicked on it and found another sweet forum. I don't know if there are ever enough forums out there. 

--So when is your tentitive delivery date?


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## Radtech51

cleveland plasma said:


> Thanks for posting this link Rad, hope you do not mind, I clicked on it and found another sweet forum. I don't know if there are ever enough forums out there.
> 
> --So when is your tentitive delivery date?


Hi! Welcome abord more the better, it's my hope that others will join us as well. My delivery date is set for Sept 8th. and each day feels like an eternity. Lol


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## PARDON ME

cleveland plasma said:


> I just can't wait till these get in the hands of end users so we can get some Real on hand reviews



:T me to


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## davisd

Thanks Rad for the pointer to HTS. Glad to see some familiar names here 

Robert, thanks much for posting additional photos on your Facebook. Could you also take some pictures of the 3D glasses included? I've seen the illustrations in the Owner's Manual but I'm wondering what they look like IRL.

Thanks!


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## Radtech51

davisd said:


> Thanks Rad for the pointer to HTS. Glad to see some familiar names here
> 
> Robert, thanks much for posting additional photos on your Facebook. Could you also take some pictures of the 3D glasses included? I've seen the illustrations in the Owner's Manual but I'm wondering what they look like IRL.
> 
> Thanks!


+1

Very glad to see you here buddy!


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## Radtech51

I was wondering why CNET makes no reference to the Elite? I know Chad said he's looking forward to getting his hands on one though.


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks davisd, Radtech51, PARDON ME, rockaway1836, and Chris for joining HTS! Great to see you all here.

-Robert


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## JClam

Hi Robert, nice to see you found a friendly place to post again. Thanks Rad for the heads up.


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## Hi Resolution

Looks like a bunch of nice folks..


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## Robert Zohn

Howdy JClam and Hi Resolution, thanks for joining me here. Welcome to HTS!

-Robert


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## RZIALSOS

So does this set have wireless built in?? Where can I find a list of specs?


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## Robert Zohn

Yes, ^^ and a great suite of Internet applications. 

I have all of the spec's on my home page and a link to the .pdf data sheet and the new Elite web site.

-Robert


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## Spdntrxi

://elitelcdtv.com/full-elite-specifications-downloads/


put HTTP at the beginning


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## RZIALSOS

Thank you so much for info fellas! I am new to this A/V thing and am curious about this new tv since I have read such great things about the pioneer's. So do you guys think it wise to buy into the first of these new sharp elite's to come out, or would it be wise to wait a couple years until they have the bugs worked out?


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## Spdntrxi

^^^ couple years there will be something better... maybe OLED


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## RZIALSOS

Spdntrxi said:


> ^^^ couple years there will be something better... maybe OLED


So you think I should hold off then?


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## Spdntrxi

RZIALSOS said:


> So you think I should hold off then?


well there will "always" be something better down the road.. you have to factor in enjoy now vs future...only you can decide.


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## HONOR

Nice to see a lot of familiar members! Let's get the party started lol


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## Radtech51

HONOR said:


> Nice to see a lot of familiar members! Let's get the party started lol


+1 :T


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## PARDON ME

HONOR said:


> Nice to see a lot of familiar members! Let's get the party started lol



Hey Whoa Did someone say party :drive:


Count me in, wheres this part gonna be at


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## cleveland plasma

Spdntrxi said:


> well there will "always" be something better down the road.. you have to factor in enjoy now vs future...only you can decide.


So true. In the end most are usually looking for the bigger, better deal too !


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## cleveland plasma

PARDON ME said:


> Count me in, wheres this part gonna be at


I can host a P A R T Y ! Anyone what to come to Cleveland, Ohio. We can each take turns taking the company rides out and about, before the beers of course.


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## PARDON ME

cleveland plasma said:


> I can host a P A R T Y ! Anyone what to come to Cleveland, Ohio. We can each take turns taking the company rides out and about, before the beers of course.



Cool perfect, off to cleveland plasma we go, come on then guys lets ride


:drive:


arty:



:fireworks1:


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## Radtech51

RZIALSOS said:


> Thank you so much for info fellas! I am new to this A/V thing and am curious about this new tv since I have read such great things about the pioneer's. So do you guys think it wise to buy into the first of these new sharp elite's to come out, or would it be wise to wait a couple years until they have the bugs worked out?


I pre-ordered my PRO-705XFD as soon as Magnolia Video would let me.  But that's just me, there is certainly nothing wrong with waiting if you don't need the Elite right away and wish to waite. Now as far as waiting a couple of years before you select a Tv there might be a problem with that since there is literally a new line-up of TV's each year, and this is a very fast moving and competitive industry to boot. So as a result you might be trapped into the I'll Waite until this better version comes out etc, etc, etc. It's an endless waiting trap for the better Tv. 
So end result is if you have the money and are ready for a new top notch TV that will likely be crowned the best display dispaly of 2011! Then the decision to go with the Elite becomes an easy one, hope this helps you some. :sn:


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## davisd

+1


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## Radtech51

lddude: Ok so this might be off-topic but it was good news for Sharp so I couldn't resist posting it. This will undoubtably help Sharp's cash flow anyway. And who knows this might even open up some new opportunities for our new Elite's, maybe a new widget at least? onder: 

Apple again rumored to invest $1B in Sharp plant for iPhone, iPad LCDs. 

A rumor that Apple is planning to invest $1 billion in a new Sharp factory for building screens for its iPhone and iPad products has resurfaced, just days after a separate report claimed that the next-generation iPad has been delayed in part because of production constraints from the supplier.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...t_1b_in_sharp_plant_for_iphone_ipad_lcds.html


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## Radtech51

I was just over at the CNET site again today and I still can't find any reference to the Elite line. Anyone else find this crazy? :coocoo:

Oh Waite, I did find this but there is no reference to when or if they will be reviewing one. I'm going to assume David can't Waite to get his hands on one though. ;p
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105...the-elite-brand-with-jumbo-lcds/?tag=mncol;1n


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## thenarc

So this is where the party is at...

Thanks for the link Radtech, HDJ was boring without Robert. 

Hello to all the familiar members, looking forward to your great input on this beast of a TV.:clap::clap::clap:


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## Radtech51

thenarc said:


> So this is where the party is at...
> 
> Thanks for the link Radtech, HDJ was boring without Robert.
> 
> Hello to all the familiar members, looking forward to your great input on this beast of a TV.:clap::clap::clap:


Hi buddy! Welcome and thanks! I got some slamming for posting this link over there but it was only in the best of intentions. lddude:


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## Glenee

Hi all you Guys. I'm so Glad you have made your way over to the Shack. I've been here a while, I just don't Post much anywhere, unless it's somebody having problems and I can help out.
Anyway, Glad to you guys migrating. I know that the level of Video Knowledge just went up by heaps here.

Glenee


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## Radtech51

Glenee said:


> Hi all you Guys. I'm so Glad you have made your way over to the Shack. I've been here a while, I just don't Post much anywhere, unless it's somebody having problems and I can help out.
> Anyway, Glad to you guys migrating. I know that the level of Video Knowledge just went up by heaps here.
> 
> Glenee


Hi Glenee! It's nice to meet you, welcome abord buddy. :sn:


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## Spdntrxi

thenarc said:


> So this is where the party is at...
> 
> Thanks for the link Radtech, HDJ was boring without Robert.
> 
> Hello to all the familiar members, looking forward to your great input on this beast of a TV.:clap::clap::clap:


it's boring anywhere without owners..:rant:


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## aleicgrant

I simply cant wait to see the sets start rolling to owners. As some of us know we have taken some lumps in defending Robert and another forum so its nice to see everyone excited about this new level of HD that carrys the Elite brand

Robert, I am turning over every couch I have to find the pennies


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## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> I simply cant wait to see the sets start rolling to owners. As some of us know we have taken some lumps in defending Robert and another forum so its nice to see everyone excited about this new level of HD that carrys the Elite brand
> 
> Robert, I am turning over every couch I have to find the pennies


+1


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## Radtech51

lddude: So I'm thinking about getting a mini-Mac and placing it under the Tv and using the Elite as a computer monitor! Any thoughts?


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## cleveland plasma

Awsome, used a 42" plasma as a monitor for a year. Was quite amazing reading e-mails from 10 FT.


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## Radtech51

cleveland plasma said:


> Awsome, used a 42" plasma as a monitor for a year. Was quite amazing reading e-mails from 10 FT.


Very nice! I can't Waite to experience that myself I may never want to look at my 27" computer monitor again. :bigsmile:


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## aleicgrant

i used my Kuro to do just the same  well broken in of course !!!


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## cleveland plasma

Radtech51 said:


> Very nice! I can't Waite to experience that myself I may never want to look at my 27" computer monitor again. :bigsmile:


You may be smiling now, but you will be spoiled for life and always want a 70" monitor. Hey I'll have 15" on ya with the 85" Panasonic though :sn: I still have not hung it, one busy summer....


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## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> i used my Kuro to do just the same  well broken in of course !!!


Oh I bet that looks nice! :sn:




cleveland plasma said:


> You may be smiling now, but you will be spoiled for life and always want a 70" monitor. Hey I'll have 15" on ya with the 85" Panasonic though :sn: I still have not hung it, one busy summer....


Your right on that buddy! 

WoW an 85" that's a monster! I would love to see that somday buddy, please post some pictures if you can. :rubeyes:


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## cjakutowicz

Man am I glad I joined the forums over here. Glad to see I am not the only one who jumped from HDJ. I'm also glad to see Robert is here and will be updating all of us on the new Elites!


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## davisd

I've been using my TV as a monitor since the days of S-Video. Right now I have a Sharp LC-65D64U which running at 1920x1080 res with xvYCC color and it looks great! I run everything through my PC. Win7 with Media Center for TV and PowerDVD for Blu-ray playback.

I can't wait to do the same with my new 70"


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## mechman

Welcome to the Home Theater Shack folks! :T Good to have you all here! :T


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## Radtech51

davisd said:


> I've been using my TV as a monitor since the days of S-Video. Right now I have a Sharp LC-65D64U which running at 1920x1080 res with xvYCC color and it looks great! I run everything through my PC. Win7 with Media Center for TV and PowerDVD for Blu-ray playback.
> 
> I can't wait to do the same with my new 70"


Oh nice! I'm sure the Elite will look great and I'm expecting wonderful response times to to boot. This waiting period is truly torturing though, my delivery date is set for the 8th and it better not be pushed back or else! addle:


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## sycore

Hi all. I am a refuge from the other 2 sites. Hope this site stays flame war free and on topic.

Anyway, has Kevin expanded on his statement of "slight motion problems" in his quick review of the 70X5?


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## cjakutowicz

sycore said:


> Hi all. I am a refuge from the other 2 sites. Hope this site stays flame war free and on topic.
> 
> Anyway, has Kevin expanded on his statement of "slight motion problems" in his quick review of the 70X5?


I would like to know this as well. I consider myself a plasma guy, but if motion is on par with plasma, this Elite may sway me to the LED side.


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## Radtech51

sycore said:


> Hi all. I am a refuge from the other 2 sites. Hope this site stays flame war free and on topic.
> 
> Anyway, has Kevin expanded on his statement of "slight motion problems" in his quick review of the 70X5?


Hi and welcome! We plan on staying flame war free for sure, just a bunch of friends here talking about the new Elite. 



cjakutowicz said:


> I would like to know this as well. I consider myself a plasma guy, but if motion is on par with plasma, this Elite may sway me to the LED side.


Ok here it is, sorry fir the wall of text. :rubeyes:

1080p is currently the highest resolution available for TVs and video projectors. 1080p represents 1,080 lines (or pixel rows) of resolution displayed sequentially. In other words, all lines or pixel rows are scanned or displayed progressively, providing the most detailed high definition video image that is currently available to consumers.

1080i and 1080p are both High Definition display formats for HDTVs. 1080i and 1080p signals actually contain the same information. Both 1080i and 1080p represent a 1920x1080 pixel resolution (1,920 pixels across the screen by 1,080 pixels down the screen). The difference between 1080i and 1080p is in the way the signal is sent from a source component or displayed on an HDTV screen.

In 1080i each frame of video is sent or displayed in alternative fields. The fields in 1080i are composed of 540 rows of pixels or lines of pixels running from the top to the bottom of the screen, with the odd fields displayed first and the even fields displayed second. Together, both fields create a full frame, made up of all 1,080 pixel rows or lines, every 30th of a second.

In 1080p, each frame of video is sent or displayed progressively. This means that both the odd and even fields (all 1,080 pixel rows or pixel lines) that make up the full frame are displayed together. This results in a smoother looking image, with less motion artifacts and jagged edges.

1080p/60 (Most common), 1080p/30, or in 1080p/24 formats.

*1080p/24 is the same frame displayed every 24th of a second (Standard motion picture film frame rate.)

So back to what Kevin said. "The PRO-60X5FD does fail one important motion test called the Film Resolution Loss test on the Blu-ray version of the Silicaon Optix HQV test disc, which indicates that the panel is not de-interlacing 1080i film based content properly. However, it does handle 24p correctly smoothing out sharp pans nicely as demonstrated in Chapter 7 of “I am Legend” in the helicopter fly over scene, which most displays do not handle correctly."

So as you can see failing just one de-interlacing test in 1080i isn't very important. As long as the display is handling 1080p /24p correctly.

Hope this helps you some, there is nothing to worry about the Elite is still the top of the line! :T


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## cjakutowicz

Thanks for the reply radtech!


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## HONOR

Chris, what 85" (model) did you get?


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## Robert Zohn

I wanted to comment on the Elite TV photos on Engadget. Not exactly sure how they got the reflections to be so exaggerated but one thing that is causing the photos to have such pronounced reflections is that the they are overexposed. You can tell the photos are overexposed by how bright the images are. Everything is washed out. 

Engadget has great reporting, but this reporter needs to take a photography class. I've been trying to take a picture of our store demo PRO-70X5FD to look like what Engadget has and can't get my camera to overexpose it enough to replicate what they did.

Also one picture is with the TV powered off and against a black screen the reflection is worst, but with content on it's much harder to see reflections.

Now with all this said, the new Elite does have a glossy finish. The glossy finish adds to the contrast ratio, black level and sharpness. I think it may also help in the very good off axes viewing quality.

Hope this helps.

-Robert


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## HONOR

Thanks for the info Robert... they are using an HDR image causing the horrible over exposure... Many cameras have this as a build in feature now, trying to replicate photoshop


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## Radtech51

HONOR said:


> Thanks for the info Robert... they are using an HDR image causing the horrible over exposure... Many cameras have this as a build in feature now, trying to replicate photoshop


I think they are using HDR, someone just posted about this on HDJ and said they were using it. If so this would explain much, you would think a photographer would have better sense. :coocoo:


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> I wanted to comment on the Elite TV photos on Engadget. Not exactly sure how they got the reflections to be so exaggerated but one thing that is causing the photos to have such pronounced reflections is that the they are overexposed. You can tell the photos are overexposed by how bright the images are. Everything is washed out.
> 
> Engadget has great reporting, but this reporter needs to take a photography class. I've been trying to take a picture of our store demo PRO-70X5FD to look like what Engadget has and can't get my camera to overexpose it enough to replicate what they did.
> 
> Also one picture is with the TV powered off and against a black screen the reflection is worst, but with content on it's much harder to see reflections.
> 
> Now with all this said, the new Elite does have a glossy finish. The glossy finish adds to the contrast ratio, black level and sharpness. I think it may also help in the very good off axes viewing quality.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the update Robert, would you still hold to your original statement regarding the glare? Do you think the glare is comparable to the VT30 for example? :unbelievable:


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## Robert Zohn

Depending on the angel the reflection varies on both TVs. From my memory they are similar, with a slight edge to the VT30. 

I have them on different walls so it's not easy to exactly compare the, but I'll look again tomorrow when the lighting comes in our front windows. 


-Robert


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Depending on the angel the reflection varies on both TVs. From my memory they are similar, with a slight edge to the VT30.
> 
> I have them on different walls so it's not easy to exactly compare the, but I'll look again tomorrow when the lighting comes in our front windows.
> 
> 
> -Robert


+1 :T


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## cleveland plasma

HONOR said:


> Chris, what 85" (model) did you get?


TH-85PF12UK Panasonic


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## HONOR

Robert, do the 3D glasses have a glossy finish?


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## HONOR

*Re: ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD Discussion Threa*



cleveland plasma said:


> TH-85PF12UK Panasonic



Nice, how are the black levels


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## davidjschenk

Hi everyone,

I still owe a review/report on the 70" Sharp Elite; I swear I will make good on that promise. It's just that I got a tad distracted with some other duties (the school year is about to start back up at my college, so "a-teaching I will go," wot wot) and spent more time than I should have with another new hobby of mine. Anyway, the videos are done and up on Youtube, so I just have to write up the report and then post the video links. Once it's all done, I'll post copies of it both here and on HDJ.

Robert, as you are now a sponsor here on HTS, can we assume we will have special access to your 2011 HDTV shootout?

Yours,

David


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## Robert Zohn

Hi David, yes HTS had featured our shoot-out on the home page and it was picked up by Twice Magazine and Big Picture Big Sound who wrote very nice articles.

Sharp/Pioneer's new Elite LCD/LED TV will be in the shoot-out so this year's displays are the very best we have seen. 

We're very much looking forward to your review.

-Robert


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## Radtech51

davidjschenk said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I still owe a review/report on the 70" Sharp Elite; I swear I will make good on that promise. It's just that I got a tad distracted with some other duties (the school year is about to start back up at my college, so "a-teaching I will go," wot wot) and spent more time than I should have with another new hobby of mine. Anyway, the videos are done and up on Youtube, so I just have to write up the report and then post the video links. Once it's all done, I'll post copies of it both here and on HDJ.
> 
> Robert, as you are now a sponsor here on HTS, can we assume we will have special access to your 2011 HDTV shootout?
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


+1

Thanks buddy, we never thought for a second you forgot about us. :innocent:


----------



## bpmurr

Can't wait to see how this set does at the shootout!


----------



## Robert Zohn

me too ^^

-Robert


----------



## codeman896

Just wanted to pop in and say hello to everyone. I had to temporarily postpone my 60X5FD order, horrible I know, but am still very interested in all the goings-on related to it - so on that note - David? :whistling:

Regards,
-Craig


----------



## aleicgrant

Dont make us hunt you down for it 




davidjschenk said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> I still owe a review/report on the 70" Sharp Elite; I swear I will make good on that promise. It's just that I got a tad distracted with some other duties (the school year is about to start back up at my college, so "a-teaching I will go," wot wot) and spent more time than I should have with another new hobby of mine. Anyway, the videos are done and up on Youtube, so I just have to write up the report and then post the video links. Once it's all done, I'll post copies of it both here and on HDJ.
> 
> Robert, as you are now a sponsor here on HTS, can we assume we will have special access to your 2011 HDTV shootout?
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


----------



## Radtech51

The Waite is almost over, just a-little longer... :sweat:


----------



## aleicgrant

I tried to temp David over on HDJ with a gift card to release the review early but no go


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Robert Zohn said:


> me too ^^
> 
> -Robert


Robert, thanks for all of your knowledge on the Elite…!

Followed your every word on the other site. Glad I found you on this one. Keep the post candy coming. If I only lived closer, I’d be in your shop every day.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thank very much to all who joined HTS! 

I did want to respond to a few posters on other forums that do not understand the importance of breaking in the new Elite TV. 

First, I suggest a break-in period for all electronics, including speakers. But it's true that LCD TVs do not need much of a break-in. It's the LEDs that need a proper break-in.

Also the 75 hr. break-in give us the time to thoroughly q/c the TV for defects.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Thank very much to all who joined HTS!
> 
> I did want to respond to a few posters on other forums that do not understand the importance of breaking in the new Elite TV.
> 
> First, I suggest a break-in period for all electronics, including speakers. But it's true that LCD TVs do not need much of a break-in. It's the LEDs that need a proper break-in.
> 
> Also the 75 hr. break-in give us the time to thoroughly q/c the TV for defects.
> 
> -Robert


+1

lddude: Kevin M. told me to put some hours on my Elite before he comes out to calibrate it, and I for one am going to follow his every instructions. I couldn't be more excited about my Elite! :sn:


----------



## Radtech51

Hi Robert I'm curious to view the upcoming HDTV Shootout live come this Setp 17-18 is it free? Also do you have a URL to that live streaming site yet, thanks.


----------



## Robert Zohn

We're working on transmitting the event in 3D this year so the initial very fast broadband up-link and service providers are still not 100% finalized. Attending in person or to view our moderated webcast is free. 

Stay tuned for more information on how to participate in the live HD webcast.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> We're working on transmitting the event in 3D this year so the initial very fast broadband up-link and service providers are still not 100% finalized. Attending in person or to view our moderated webcast is free.
> 
> Stay tuned for more information on how to participate in the live HD webcast.
> 
> -Robert


Great News thanks! :T


----------



## codeman896

Robert,

I'm curious to know what do you break in LEDs with? Is it the same as PDP sets where you should ideally use slides (Evagelo2's) or at least full screen content without any static images (i.e. Disney/Pixar's Up) or is just normal viewing enough without regard to black bars or static images (i.e. Football broadcasts)? Until reading these forums I had no idea LED- LCD even needed a break in as there are no phosphors to age uniformly. 

Thanks for the info,
-Craig


----------



## Robert Zohn

I'm communicating with the Elite engineers, but at this moment I am told it's the LEDs that need to be aged so we're planning on running full frame motion video for 75 hours. 

It is important to break-in LED technology.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Hi Robert, can you confirm for us if RGB+Y is used in THX movie mode? Thanks.


----------



## dsskid

Any word on Davids review?


----------



## Robert Zohn

The yellow sub-pixel is not active in the THX mode.

Hi John, welcome to the HTS! David is in the final stage of completing his report and the video is already edited and ready to go. I understand he will be posting it here and on HDJ hopefully by tomorrow.

-Robert


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> The yellow sub-pixel is not active in the THX mode.
> 
> Hi John, welcome to the HTS! David is in the final stage of completing his report and the video is already edited and ready to go. I understand he will be posting it here and on HDJ hopefully by tomorrow.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the welcome and the update Robert. Good to see you here.


----------



## Suave

Hi All!

New member Suave from England here! A few folks might know me from other places so hopefully they might convince you all that I'm not such a bad guy!

Robert, I have no idea why things went quiet elsewhere but glad to see you are still active! Really looking forward to reading David's report & of course, your updates!!

Suave!


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> The yellow sub-pixel is not active in the THX mode.
> 
> Hi John, welcome to the HTS! David is in the final stage of completing his report and the video is already edited and ready to go. I understand he will be posting it here and on HDJ hopefully by tomorrow.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks buddy, I guess my next question is with the display properly calibrated will the Yellow sub-pixel be used in any of the modes or disabled completely like in THX mode? 

Somehow I'd like to see this Yellow sub-pixel work out, Pioneer worked hard with Sharp to get it right.


----------



## cleveland plasma

Well know once the calibrators across the nation get ahold of these. Each calibrator has his own ideas. There is no question if we sat 10 calibrators down in front of the same tv in the same light conditions and let them go to town at different times, each one would come up with a similar yet different result.


----------



## Radtech51

cleveland plasma said:


> Well know once the calibrators across the nation get ahold of these. Each calibrator has his own ideas. There is no question if we sat 10 calibrators down in front of the same tv in the same light conditions and let them go to town at different times, each one would come up with a similar yet different result.


+1 So True my friend!


----------



## cleveland plasma

^^^ So in the end if you tell a calibrator I want the yellow sub-pixel active, make it look the best it can, it shall be done as you are the paying client.


----------



## Radtech51

cleveland plasma said:


> ^^^ So in the end if you tell a calibrator I want the yellow sub-pixel active, make it look the best it can, it shall be done as you are the paying client.


+1


----------



## pciav

Hi All,

First post here...joined HDJ because of Robert, but over here now at HTS since this is where the party is. Sorry Chris, haven't been to Cleveland since 1988...still recovering.

A couple of quick questions.

1) Does anyone know if the power cord is removable or is it hard wired like the 73x series? 2) Anyone know the bolt size used for mounting...M6, 8, 10 etc. & length? Thanks in advance.

Phil C.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi Phil, thanks so very much for your very kind words!! The power cord is attached behind a small door that has one Philips head screw holding it in place and a hinge on the other end. Monday I'll remove the screw and check out how the power cord is attached.

I'll also check out the bolt pattern and bolt size, but I believe it's a standard visa 400 bolt pattern with M6 bolts.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Hey Robert, so I came across this post at AVF and was hoping you could supply us with some more information regarding his speculation of Sharp using there mainstream LCD displays in the Elite? 




> "Quote:
> Originally Posted by Foggg
> I didn't see any speculation in this thread on whether or how long it will take for the Elite's panel and engine tech to eventually filter down to Sharp's mainstream models.
> 
> My poorly-informed guess: much of the price of the Elites, unlike Kuro's and top-end plasmas, is paying for R&D and higher overhead associated with lower production runs --- that the panel and engine tech can eventually be priced much more cheaply in volume.
> Sharp won't extend them downward too quickly because there is no advantage to excelling over the competition if production capacity is not capable of meeting the resulting huge demand. Unless perhaps Sharp wants to develop brand reputation.
> But it would be nice to hear speculation from the experts here."





> "It's already been speculated that the panels used in the Elites are the same panels used in Sharp's mainstream displays."


----------



## pciav

Thank you, Robert. Don't go to crazy with power cord...the bolt info was helpful.

Phil C.


----------



## JClam

Robert, I see that the Sharp 735s are out now, are you planning to get any into the store? Would like to compare PQ and reflections side by side...


----------



## Robert Zohn

Radtech51 said:


> Hey Robert, so I came across this post at AVF and was hoping you could supply us with some more information regarding his speculation of Sharp using there mainstream LCD displays in the Elite?


Not sure if or when Sharp will use any of the Elite X5FD technology on the core products. 

In reply to the other point of the panel being the same as used in other Sharp 2011 TVs is not true. The panel and filtering is exclusive to the Elite TV. The contrast ratio, black level and off axes viewing is superior on the Elite panel.

Further, the Elite TV is the only one that employes a full array back-lit technology and as stated earlier the built-in video processor chip is exclusive to the Elite display as is the ISF day/night modes and many other integrated electronics that make this TV display its exceptional performance. 



JClam said:


> Robert, I see that the Sharp 735s are out now, are you planning to get any into the store? Would like to compare PQ and reflections side by side...


Yes, we had a direct account relationship with Sharp a few years ago and Sharp and I have agreed to reestablish it for the Elite TVs and now I'm adding a few Sharp SKUs to our mix. 

But don't expect any edge lit LED panel to look good next to any full array back lit technology. Especially on one that has 299 local dimming zones and the Elite filtering and newly developed advanced built-in vp. 

Panel uniformity, LCD/LED blooming, black level, off axes viewing and color accuracy will be quite different.

-Robert


----------



## cjakutowicz

Hi Robert,

I was wondering if D-Nice or Ed Johnson had a chance to calibrate any of the Elite's this weekend? If so, what was their impression post calibration and there overall opinion on them?

As a side note, I am glad to be following you again at this forum. You cordialness and overall help you extended me in the past is second to none!


----------



## rockaway1836

Robert, all the other 70 inch Sharps are full array. They are however not locally dimmed.
I don't have enough posts here to post links, but it's on Sharps website.


----------



## JClam

Robert Zohn said:


> Not sure if or when Sharp will use any of the Elite X5FD technology on the core products.
> 
> In reply to the other point of the panel being the same as used in other Sharp 2011 TVs is not true. The panel and filtering is exclusive to the Elite TV. The contrast ratio, black level and off axes viewing is superior on the Elite panel.
> 
> Further, the Elite TV is the only one that employes a full array back-lit technology and as stated earlier the built-in video processor chip is exclusive to the Elite display as is the ISF day/night modes and many other integrated electronics that make this TV display its exceptional performance.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, we had a direct account relationship with Sharp a few years ago and Sharp and I have agreed to reestablish it for the Elite TVs and now I'm adding a few Sharp SKUs to our mix.
> 
> But don't expect any edge lit LED panel to look good next to any full array back lit technology. Especially on one that has 299 local dimming zones and the Elite filtering and newly developed advanced built-in vp.
> 
> Panel uniformity, LCD/LED blooming, black level, off axes viewing and color accuracy will be quite different.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks, Robert. Glad to hear you plan to get some other Sharp SKUs in.

Like you I don't expect the 735 PQ to be even close to the X5, but I feel compelled to do the due diligence anyway, especially in the context to compare the screen reflection. Ultimately I am going to have to make a very difficult choice: own the tv with the best picture quality but possibly not be able to enjoy it as much because it's not appropriate from my brightly lit room, or suffer with lesser picture quality that makes more sense because the screen isn't as reflective. 

This isn't a cost issue for me, I've already been down the road of spending $8k on a tv...12 years ago when I bought my Elite Pro-710 (anyone want to adjust that for inflation for me to today's $$?). Then because of the reflections I had to have the contrast screen removed and re-calibrate the tv with the screen off. That made all the difference in the world to our enjoyment of that tv. 

I can't take the screen off of the X5, so I need to know before hand what I'm getting into and what the other (sub-optimal) TV choices bring/don't bring to the table.

Thanks--Jim


----------



## Robert Zohn

rockaway1836 said:


> Robert, all the other 70 inch Sharps are full array. They are however not locally dimmed.
> I don't have enough posts here to post links, but it's on Sharps website.


You are correct, sorry my mistake.

-Robert


----------



## CHASLS2

I am looking to replace my 9G Kuro with a bigger VT30, but will have to think about this new Elite LED as well. Never in my life would i ever think of buying a LCD to replace my Kuro, but if this Elite gets great reviews i may have to retool my thinking.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi CHASLS2, I love the VT30 and own one personally. Once we get more 70" Elites in I'm taking one home to replace my 60" PRO-141FD. In fact, I predicted it would win our 2011 flat panel shoot-out event, but now I'm not sure. They are both excellent choices.

We sold more than 350 VT30s since they launched less than 3 months ago. 

The first new Elite LCD/LED TV review is published by Kevin Miller of TweakTV.com. I expect David Katzmaier of CNET will have his review within a few days and David Schenk will be posting his review and video on this HTS thread also in a day or two.

We have the world's only X5FD Elite LCD/LED TV on display at our store and a dozen or so forum members from many a/v sites have stopped by to see it demonstrated in person.

I'm confident all reviewers will rate this new mid-year introduction very highly.

-Robert


----------



## amexgift

Hi Robert,

If money were not the issue and you wanted the best picture, which tv
would you recommend...the elite pro of the pany vt30?

With regards,
Andrew


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi Andrew, welcome to HTS, hope you become an active member here.

Tough question as your viewing situation is important to know before making an informed decision. The simple answer would be the new Elite as it delivers a better picture quality in all lighting conditions. The black level and peak luminance of the new Elite is the very best I have ever seen and the graduation is the smoothest, with excellent color accuracy and color saturation. Off axes image quality is the best in the LCD/LED class along with very minimal blooming typically associated with LCD/LED panels.

Your viewing distance, the room layout and type of content you watch most can help make the best decision for your applications.

I was going to upgrade my 60" Elite Signature Series PRO-141FD with Panasonic's TC-P65VT30, but now that I've seen the PRO-70X5FD it no contest as I have high ambient light in the daytime and a very dark nighttime conditions in my living room. 

-Robert


----------



## CHASLS2

As you can see in the pic my 50" Kuro is mounted kinda high on the stand to clear the RC7 center speaker. This is in my bedroom and i lay in bed while viewing, so i wonder how the this new Elite will do off axis since it will be around 2ft higher than my head will be for viewing. I only view in a dark room at nite.

A 60" would be the perfect size.


----------



## amexgift

Thanks Robert. 

Our main seating is a couch, centered to the tv about 10 feet away. If we chose to watch a movie
or baseball game in the daytime and we want the best viewing conditions, we close 
the shades and the environment is dark. My family and I watch a few bluray
movies a month, but we mostly watch the high definition channels on cable tv.

Since I can control the amount of day light in the room, I would prefer the best tv that is viewed best 
in a dark envirment.

Your insight is appreciated.

Andrew


----------



## Robert Zohn

Very nice set-up CHASLS2. If you want the very best TV you can chose the 65" VT30 or 60" X5FD. I assume you are about 12' from the TV? 

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

amexgift said:


> Thanks Robert.
> 
> Our main seating is a couch, centered to the tv about 10 feet away. If we chose to watch a movie
> or baseball game in the daytime and we want the best viewing conditions, we close
> the shades and the environment is dark. My family and I watch a few bluray
> movies a month, but we mostly watch the high definition channels on cable tv.
> 
> Since I can control the amount of day light in the room, I would prefer the best tv that is viewed best
> in a dark envirment.
> 
> Your insight is appreciated.
> 
> Andrew


Considering the cost (I know you said not to do that) I'd take Panasonic's 65" VT30 for your application.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

^^ I'd take the 70" Elite, the black levels are superior in a dark environment. Good luck with your choice.


----------



## CHASLS2

Robert Zohn said:


> Very nice set-up CHASLS2. If you want the very best TV you can chose the 65" VT30 or 60" X5FD. I assume you are about 12' from the TV?
> 
> -Robert


I would say about 12ft. I built in a riser on the tv stand so the Kuro would clear the RC7 center speaker. I know the Panny sets sit lower than my Kuro and not sure how high up the Sharp Elite will sit. If i go for the 60" X5FD i don't want to have the set placed too high that i am out of the sweet spot. With a plasma i don't have to worry about it being too high.


----------



## Radtech51

CHASLS2 said:


> I would say about 12ft. I built in a riser on the tv stand so the Kuro would clear the RC7 center speaker. I know the Panny sets sit lower than my Kuro and not sure how high up the Sharp Elite will sit. If i go for the 60" X5FD i don't want to have the set placed too high that i am out of the sweet spot. With a plasma i don't have to worry about it being too high.


I don't believe you will have to worry to much about off-axis viewing it has been greatly improved on the Elite. Unless your really staing up at the Tv to view it and in that case I'd say you have bigger problems to worry about. My suggestion is to go look at the Elite in person when one arrives at a store near you and see if it works out. Lot's of luck with your decision.


----------



## Spiff69

I would get a new AV stand and bring the whole thing down - it looks like you have very little going on on the bottom shelf anyway.


----------



## Robert Zohn

CHASLS2, I agree with Radtech51 and Spiff69. 

The new Elite has very good off axes viewing. The up-down off angle is not as wide as the left/right, but both off angels viewing is much better than any other LCD TV. I believe this is due to the filtering that was adopted from the Kuro panels. 

I also think a new lower a/v cabinet would be a good idea. Partly, because regardless of the off axes viewing ability of the panel it's never good to be looking up at the screen.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> CHASLS2, I agree with Radtech51 and Spiff69.
> 
> The new Elite has very good off axes viewing. The up-down off angle is not as wide as the left/right, but both off angels viewing is much better than any other LCD TV. I believe this is due to the filtering that was adopted from the Kuro panels.
> 
> I also think a new lower a/v cabinet would be a good idea. Partly, because regardless of the off axes viewing ability of the panel it's never good to be looking up at the screen.
> 
> -Robert


+1


----------



## Radtech51

Hi Robert! I have another question for you my friend. I thought I'd get your input on this, please tell me if it makes sence or not thx. 
I was just thinking but wouldn't the Elite be suffering from some kind of detail or sharpness loss if the Yellow sub-pixel was disabled? For example: If only the RGB pixels were lit-up and the Yellow sub-pixel was not, isn't that detail or information that's not being used no matter how small technically? Sharp did state there are more pixels on the Elite due to the Yellow sub-pixel which results in a sharper image. Any thoughts?
So if this is true what are the advantages of using THX mode over the other picture modes that utilize the Yellow sub-pixel?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Good question ^^ and in theory it sounds like it could be an issue. However, out of the box the THX mode looks the best. 

I'll ask the product manager to explain so we get a technical explanation.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Good question ^^ and in theory it sounds like it could be an issue. However, out of the box the THX mode looks the best.
> 
> I'll ask the product manager to explain so we get a technical explanation.
> 
> -Robert


+1 

Also is the ELITE PURE picture mode locked using the Yellow sub-pixel? After calibration would this picture mode be used over the Movie (THX) picture mode?


----------



## dsskid

What are those 2 gray boxes on the right hand side? They look vaguely familiar from years gone by. (joking)

Looks like quite an audio system for your bedroom. 

I agree with spiff69.


----------



## dsskid

Anyone hear from David? I haven't seen him on the forums since the 18th.


----------



## aleicgrant

dsskid said:


> Anyone hear from David? I haven't seen him on the forums since the 18th.


Posted on another site was that he had some personal business to attend to and for us to be patient


----------



## dsskid

Not too worried about his review, more concerned about his well-being, thanks for the update.


----------



## Radtech51

lddude: Was viewing some videos this morning on the RGB+Y technology. "(RGB+Y) better detail 8 million Vs 6 million dots (RGB). With added dot by dot control, called quad pixel plus. Brighter whites and deeper black levels."

Sure sounds good well see soon. Enough I suppose. :rubeyes:


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> Not too worried about his review, more concerned about his well-being, thanks for the update.


Agreed, I'm totally happy with Kevin M. review for now, I just hope he's ok real life comes first.


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> lddude: Was viewing some videos this morning on the RGB+Y technology. "(RGB+Y) better detail 8 million Vs 6 million dots (RGB). With added dot by dot control, called quad pixel plus. Brighter whites and deeper black levels."
> 
> Sure sounds good well see soon. Enough I suppose. :rubeyes:


I guess that means with yellow pixels disabled in THX mode, it reverts down to 6 million dots.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

dsskid said:


> I guess that means with yellow pixels disabled in THX mode, it reverts down to 6 million dots.


If we’re forced to choose one or the other, I’d pick higher resolution before better color accuracy. Losing 2 million dots sounds a tad costly to me. I’m sure with the yellow pixels enabled the color is still very good.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> I guess that means with yellow pixels disabled in THX mode, it reverts down to 6 million dots.


Yep, basically the same as the other displays using RGB only. Now of course the larger the screen the more dots there will be, those numbers I saw on that video was from a non Elite Sharp Tv and I don't recal the size. The big question is with this information given the extra dots with the Yellow sub-pixel on would an Elite be best viewed outside Movie (THX) mode? ELITE PURE mode Vs Movie (THX) mode for example? :rubeyes:


----------



## dsskid

Hutchinshouse said:


> If we’re forced to choose one or the other, I’d pick higher resolution before better color accuracy. Losing 2 million dots sounds a tad costly to me. I’m sure with the yellow pixels enabled the color is still very good.


You would be more apt to notice color discrepancy than you would losing dots.


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> Yep, basically the same as the other displays using RGB only.


 That is correct.



Radtech51 said:


> Now of course the larger the screen the more dots there will be, those numbers I saw on that video was from a non Elite Sharp Tv and I don't recal the size.


 This is not correct, just larger pixels. 



Radtech51 said:


> The big question is with this information given the extra dots with the Yellow sub-pixel on would an Elite be best viewed outside Movie (THX) mode? ELITE PURE mode Vs Movie (THX) mode for example? :rubeyes:


 We should strive for picture accuracy. 

From early reports, it calibrates best with the yellow pixels disabled, but only time will tell.

A good example...720P Pioneer plasmas produced a better picture than the 1080P plasmas of it's day.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

dsskid said:


> You would be more apt to notice color discrepancy than you would losing dots.


Yeah, you’re probably correct. However, a true Elite should be able to have the best color and utilize every pixel simultaneously.


----------



## dsskid

It's early. Let's see how everything hashes out.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

dsskid said:


> It's early. Let's see how everything hashes out.


+1

Yup, looking forward to more details on this bad-boy.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> That is correct.
> 
> This is not correct, just larger pixels.
> 
> * Thanks for that correction buddy your right.
> 
> We should strive for picture accuracy.
> 
> * Agreed, but I would like to see both work as well.
> 
> From early reports, it calibrates best with the yellow pixels disabled, but only time will tell.
> 
> A good example...720P Pioneer plasmas produced a better picture than the 1080P plasmas of it's day.


* Could a more skilled calibrator make it work I wonder? People usually go with what there used to and the extra effort in making the Yellow sub-pixel might be worth the effort. I guess time will tell here.


----------



## mechman

Radtech51 said:


> * Could a more skilled calibrator make it work I wonder? People usually go with what there used to and the extra effort in making the Yellow sub-pixel might be worth the effort. I guess time will tell here.


I don't know if it's a question of a calibrator making it work as it is Sharp/Pioneer's engineers coming up with the correct software/algorithm to implement a secondary color with the three primaries in each pixel. If they engineered it properly, it can probably be calibrated properly. We'll see what Kevin has to say though.


----------



## Radtech51

mechman said:


> I don't know if it's a question of a calibrator making it work as it is Sharp/Pioneer's engineers coming up with the correct software/algorithm to implement a secondary color with the three primaries in each pixel. If they engineered it properly, it can probably be calibrated properly. We'll see what Kevin has to say though.


Agreed, and if the tools are available (should be) it will be possable for adjusting the gamma to achieve a new reference color level, I'll be very pleased. :rubeyes:


----------



## CHASLS2

dsskid said:


> What are those 2 gray boxes on the right hand side? They look vaguely familiar from years gone by. (joking)
> 
> Looks like quite an audio system for your bedroom.
> 
> I agree with spiff69.


They are two S-VHS VCR's i use to time shift cable thru the wall with no cable box. I'm not looking up at the Kuro, it's more like looking up 10 dgrees. I built the TV stand and can always change it and make it lower. If i could find a smaller speaker setup that had as much thump as my RF7 system i would buy them.


----------



## cleveland plasma

CHASLS2 said:


> I would say about 12ft. I built in a riser on the tv stand so the Kuro would clear the RC7 center speaker. I know the Panny sets sit lower than my Kuro and not sure how high up the Sharp Elite will sit. If i go for the 60" X5FD i don't want to have the set placed too high that i am out of the sweet spot. With a plasma i don't have to worry about it being too high.


Most LED's sweet spot is pretty big, the viewing angle on most LED's is good overall until one gets really off angle. In other words with your viewing situation I would think you would be fine with an LED.


----------



## Radtech51

cleveland plasma said:


> Most LED's sweet spot is pretty big, the viewing angle on most LED's is good overall until one gets really off angle. In other words with your viewing situation I would think you would be fine with an LED.


I agree, but I also encourage people to look for themselves. :rubeyes:


----------



## dsskid

I would imagine that if a person were lying in bed watching tv, it may be a benefit to have the display sit higher than normal, causing less discomfort from the lying position. 

If the LED LCD sweet spot is an issue, I suppose you could wall mount using a tilt mount.

Nice settup Chas. I was just teasing when I asked about the VHS boxes. I know many still use them.


----------



## aleicgrant

So whats the latest on when these are landing in customers hands?


----------



## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> So whats the latest on when these are landing in customers hands?


Any week now! :sn:


----------



## Radtech51

Hi Robert, there is much heated debate going on right now about the yellow sub-pixel. Do you have an new information for us on the topic, were all very curious buddy, thanks. :gulp:


----------



## cleveland plasma

Sharp has had the sub pixel for a few years now, this debate is just starting ? Wait until more calibrators get this set and see whats what


----------



## dsskid

Panasonic tried it years ago with Quatrecolor:


----------



## Radtech51

cleveland plasma said:


> Sharp has had the sub pixel for a few years now, this debate is just starting ? Wait until more calibrators get this set and see whats what


Your so right buddy!


----------



## Suave

dsskid said:


> Panasonic tried it years ago with Quatrecolor:


Hi! 

Wow, that's going back in time somewhat! I do indeed remember that stuff from Panasonic - in the UK, Panasonic termed this as "Quintrix" on CRT's & marketed heavily as a response to Sony's Trinitron. The Sony still produced a better PQ imho!

Suave!


----------



## dsskid

Suave said:


> Hi!
> 
> Wow, that's going back in time somewhat! I do indeed remember that stuff from Panasonic - in the UK, Panasonic termed this as "Quintrix" on CRT's & marketed heavily as a response to Sony's Trinitron. The Sony still produced a better PQ imho!
> 
> Suave!


Hi Suave.

I vaguely remembered the Panasonic quad something, and when I did a search, bam, it all came back. The whole quad thing is atune to putting the cart before the horse. 

Here's what ISF Guru Kevin Miller had to say (for those who didn't read his response elsewhere)....



> Yes it provides a wider color space and a brighter picture. However, a wider color space is not accurate. Until the standard is changed from Rec 709 to something else, and program material is produced in that new standard than anything outside of it will not reproduce film based material accurately on Blu-ray or broadcast.


But those considering the ElitE shouldn't be worried, the Yellow is disabled in THX mode.


----------



## PARDON ME

dsskid said:


> Panasonic tried it years ago with Quatrecolor:



nice find bro lol


----------



## dsskid

Oh my!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Sharp is shipping my PRO-60X5FDs today!

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

HUBA HUBA


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Robert Zohn said:


> Sharp is shipping my PRO-60X5FDs today!
> 
> -Robert


If I lived in NY, I’d be camping on your storefront. :bigsmile:


----------



## dsinger

What about the 70's??????:hissyfit::hissyfit:


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Sharp is shipping my PRO-60X5FDs today!
> 
> -Robert


That's great news! This your 60" stock for your customers?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Yes, ^^ this is my first allocation that includes our shoot-out display, fills all of our clients open orders and a little excess for back-up inventory.

Our orders ship directly from Sharp not distributors.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hutchinshouse said:


> If I lived in NY, I’d be camping on your storefront. :bigsmile:


If I lived in Southern CA, I'd be camping on the beach :sn:



dsinger said:


> What about the 70's??????:hissyfit::hissyfit:


All good thing come to those who wait, but this time the wait will not be too long, if they deliver on time it will be just before Labor day. We do have this 70" monster on display and tons of visitors have stopped by from many forums.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

^^ That's great news! :sn:


----------



## dsinger

Robert Zohn said:


> If I lived in Southern CA, I'd be camping on the beach :sn:
> 
> 
> 
> All good thing come to those who wait, but this time the wait will not be too long, if they deliver on time it will be just before Labor day. We do have this 70" monster on display and tons of visitors have stopped by from many forums.
> 
> -Robert


Robert: Thanks. If just before Labor Day holds true, sounds like a customer not wanting calibration should receive the set the week of 9/5.


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert, I am having a little Elite withdrawl.... can you post up some new pics perhaps with some more source material


----------



## davidjschenk

*NOTE: This report is my property and not to be copied elsewhere without my express permission. It is intended for use on and only on the following websites: highdefjunkies.com, hometheatershack.com and valueelectronics.com. Other sites have my permission to link to its location on either of the above sites, but not to reproduce it.*


Hi, everyone,

Last weekend I had the exceptional fortune of seeing North America’s very first released production unit of the new 70” Sharp Elite television at ValueElectronics.com in Scarsdale, NY. As always, it was a great pleasure to visit with Robert, Wendy and their kids (I had not seen the Zohns in months).

The first thing that really struck me about the Elite was its sheer size. Please do not underestimate the visual difference made by going from 60” to 70”; it’s impressive. Sure, going from 50” to 60” is an even bigger relative jump, but the additional move to 70” is plenty affecting – I guarantee it. The aesthetic beauty of the Elite was the second thing that stood out. In the glossy screen, in the shape and color of the bezel and even in the gold Elite logo, the TV unquestionably was achingly proud of itself. Now, I’m not a guy who gets all worked up over the aesthetics of these things (hey, I just watch ‘em, you know?), so that stuff had no real influence on me, but I know it does matter to many other folks, and they should rest content that it is indeed externally beautiful.

Now on to the performance: my first quibble with the Elite is that its screen is very reflective and therefore does not appreciate having any bright windows sitting opposite it. It was no more reflective than all the other glossy-screened TVs on the market right now, but also no less so. The picture easily gets as _bright_ as anyone would need, mind you, but that won’t eliminate reflections, and the reflections from Robert’s store window were distracting in the afternoon sun. Even so, I’ll take a glossy screen over a matte or semi-matte one any day of any week and count myself lucky in the exchange. Matte and semi-matte screens, while they do lessen the effect of reflections, also block some of the light getting _emitted_ from the TV, which significantly degrades picture quality (principally by degrading the perceived contrast levels on the screen). My own position on dealing with window reflections is very simple: anyone who is willing to spend upwards of $8,000 on a single television has no rational business subsequently getting cheap when it comes to investing in some good, thick window curtains. Many aesthetically pleasing varieties and colors are available at any local Target store and, of course, online (I got mine from Amazon). In my opinion it’s just worth it.

Even with the window reflections BFJ96 and I saw on the TV, though, the picture in uncalibrated Movie THX mode was outstanding. It was, by far, the best, most accurate out-of-the-box picture I have ever seen on any flat-screen TV. The RGB balance in the grayscale was so close to reference that none of us could even find any but the most trivial instances of coloration in the grayscale gradient ramps. As I recall, there was just a tiny bit of green down somewhere around 15 or 20 IRE and a teensy bit of the same up around 50 IRE or so, but both were so subtle, they were initially undetectable; I had to stare long and hard at those ramps to find them. I did see some mild variations in the gamma on the ramps, but even those are detectable only by a trained eye.

Because the store was very active that day and because I had to wait for darkness to really check out the Elite’s performance, I was unable to conduct a calibration on the TV. I did do some simple, basic picture adjustment with my Spears and Munsil and AVSHD discs, but never used my meters at all. That was a bummer to me, but what could I do? The place was hopping like crazy with customers streaming in and out of the store and the sunlight on the screen during daylight ruled out any serious calibration work.

Even so, I did finally manage to find some flaws in the TV once the Sun went down. Specifically, there was some mild flashlighting in all four corners of the screen. There was more of it on the right side than the left with this unit, but all four corners had just a little bit of it. The flashlighting was sufficiently mild that I doubt anyone would ever notice it except when looking at a 0% signal in a very dark room. That was the only time I managed to catch it, anyway. Uniformity on a white screen was, as Kevin already said, bloody well perfect. I mean, it was perfect. Local dimming halos/blooming were nowhere to be seen when viewing the TV from on axis and very, very mild but ultimately detectable when viewing it from off axis.

Also, I am very happy to report that the whole-screen floating black levels that are so common on LED-lit TVs simply did not happen on the Sharp Elite. I used the fabulous new Extended Edition Fellowship of the Ring BluRay to look for this, as its opening scenes work great for revealing it: I saw no floating whatsoever. A dark background with text in the middle of the screen was exactly as dark as a total 0% signal using test patterns. Ditto for dark areas of the background when viewing mixed content. Now, how did Sharp and Pioneer manage to achieve this, you ask? Well, they set up the LED backlight so that it never actually turns all the way off. The LEDs do get very, very dark, but they never quite turn all the way off, and that’s as it should be. When LEDs turn all the way off in any LED-lit LCD, you get those horrid screen-wide floating black levels for one thing, and you also get an artifact whereby the LEDs will leave a slight afterimage of light trailing after objects during fast motion in high-contrast scenes. This happens because the LEDs have slower response rates than the LCD pixels, so the backlight cannot quite keep up with all the screen transitions getting displayed. Much of the reason for this delay in LED response comes from the fact that LEDs are much slower about going from an Off state to an On state or vice versa than they are about going from high to low or low to high On states. The best solution for this, then, is to set the backlight so that it never quite turns all the way off, but still gets as dark as the LEDs can while still remaining switched on. The Elite does this and does it better than any other LED-lit TV I’ve seen. This is one area where companies like Samsung and LG really have a lot to learn. I advise them to study the X5FD Elites very closely and do everything they can to mimic them.

Motion resolution on the Elites is substantially better than I’ve seen on any other LCDs, but still not as good as on the better plasmas (Robert and Wendy’s VT30, for instance, handled fast and mixed motion far better). The SOE effect, I am happy to report, was nowhere to be seen when sticking just with the 120hz interpolation software. Only when activating Fluid Motion did we see any SOE. So here, too, everything Kevin Miller said in his review was spot on. (Duh! Wotta surprise.)

Now I come to my last point, where I found something very interesting about the causes of which I can only speculate at this time. In the videos I took of the TV, viewers will note that the screen seems to flicker a lot. That, I assure you, is entirely a function of my camera and in no way visible to the naked eye, even when blinking really fast to try and catch it. Believe me, I tried. Visually the picture is perfect. On the video footage, though, I did find several scenes wherein the flickering went away. For instance, have a look at the opening title scene from inside Bilbo’s _Smial_, especially when the camera is focused on the map during Ian Holms’ voiceover. There I see no flickering on the video at all. Now, why would this be?? Why would the video camera manage to pick up this visually imperceptible flicker in one sort of scene, but not in another??? It’s all very intriguing, isn’t it? Here’s my current hypothesis: the flickering that the video camera registers is coming from rapid refreshing of the local dimming zones in the backlight, which will occur anytime there’s any sort of mixed content on the screen for which their dimming functions might be needed. When there is no such mixed content, though, the zones stop their rapid refreshing and just stay in a fixed state until called to do otherwise. During that map scene, after all, the screen content is very uniform and nearly static. Once some mixed content gets on there, though, the rapid zone-refreshing starts back up and my video footage starts to flicker again. Please note well: this is only an untutored hypothesis that I have formed. To know for sure what’s going on there, we’ll need the expertise of Kevin Miller and/or D-Nice.

In sum, I'll say this 70" Elite is, by some margin, the best TV I've seen this year. I cannot say if it bests the 9.5G Kuros in my opinion until I've had quite a bit more time to work on and compare one without distractions and without light pollution issues. It certainly seems like it could match or even best them, though.

Okay, so that’s my report. I’m sorry it took me so long to write it up and post it, but school has started back up at my college and I have been very busy with all of that. This coming Tuesday is the first day of classes, you see, so I’ve been spending the bulk of my time preparing.

Yours,

David


----------



## aleicgrant

oh man my heart just skipped a beat. Thank you DAVID
where might we find your videos and pics?


----------



## dsskid

davidjschenk said:


> *NOTE: This report is my property and not to be copied elsewhere without my express permission. It is intended for use on and only on the following websites: highdefjunkies.com, hometheatershack.com and valueelectronics.com. Other sites have my permission to link to its location on either of the above sites, but not to reproduce it.*
> 
> 
> Hi, everyone,
> 
> Last weekend I had the exceptional fortune of seeing North America’s very first released production unit of the new 70” Sharp Elite television at ValueElectronics.com in Scarsdale, NY. As always, it was a great pleasure to visit with Robert, Wendy and their kids (I had not seen the Zohns in months).
> 
> The first thing that really struck me about the Elite was its sheer size. Please do not underestimate the visual difference made by going from 60” to 70”; it’s impressive. Sure, going from 50” to 60” is an even bigger relative jump, but the additional move to 70” is plenty affecting – I guarantee it. The aesthetic beauty of the Elite was the second thing that stood out. In the glossy screen, in the shape and color of the bezel and even in the gold Elite logo, the TV unquestionably was achingly proud of itself. Now, I’m not a guy who gets all worked up over the aesthetics of these things (hey, I just watch ‘em, you know?), so that stuff had no real influence on me, but I know it does matter to many other folks, and they should rest content that it is indeed externally beautiful.
> 
> Now on to the performance: my first quibble with the Elite is that its screen is very reflective and therefore does not appreciate having any bright windows sitting opposite it. It was no more reflective than all the other glossy-screened TVs on the market right now, but also no less so. The picture easily gets as _bright_ as anyone would need, mind you, but that won’t eliminate reflections, and the reflections from Robert’s store window were distracting in the afternoon sun. Even so, I’ll take a glossy screen over a matte or semi-matte one any day of any week and count myself lucky in the exchange. Matte and semi-matte screens, while they do lessen the affect of reflections, also block some of the light getting _emitted_ from the TV, which significantly degrades picture quality (principally by degrading the perceived contrast levels on the screen). My own position on dealing with window reflections is very simple: anyone who is willing to spend upwards of $8,000 on a single television has no rational business subsequently getting cheap when it comes to investing in some good, thick window curtains. Many aesthetically pleasing varieties and colors are available at any local Target store and, of course, online (I got mine from Amazon). In my opinion it’s just worth it.
> 
> Even with the window reflections BFJ96 and I saw on the TV, though, the picture in uncalibrated Movie THX mode was outstanding. It was, by far, the best, most accurate out-of-the-box picture I have ever seen on any flat-screen TV. The RGB balance in the grayscale was so close to reference that none of us could even find any but the most trivial instances of coloration in the grayscale gradient ramps. As I recall, there was just a tiny bit of green down somewhere around 15 or 20 IRE and a teensy bit of the same up around 50 IRE or so, but both were so subtle, they were initially undetectable; I had to stare long and hard at those ramps to find them. I did see some mild variations in the gamma on the ramps, but even those are detectable only by a trained eye.
> 
> Because the store was very active that day and because I had to wait for darkness to really check out the Elite’s performance, I was unable to conduct a calibration on the TV. I did do some simple, basic picture adjustment with my Spears and Munsil and AVSHD discs, but never used my meters at all. That was a bummer to me, but what could I do? The place was hopping like crazy with customers streaming in and out of the store and the sunlight on the screen during daylight ruled out any serious calibration work.
> 
> Even so, I did finally manage to find some flaws in the TV once the Sun went down. Specifically, there was some mild flashlighting in all four corners of the screen. There was more of it on the right side than the left with this unit, but all four corners had just a little bit of it. The flashlighting was sufficiently mild that I doubt anyone would ever notice it except when looking at a 0% signal in a very dark room. That was the only time I managed to catch it, anyway. Uniformity on a white screen as, as Kevin already said, bloody well perfect. I mean, it was perfect. Local dimming halos/blooming were nowhere to be seen when viewing the TV from on axis and very, very mild but ultimately detectable when viewing it from off axis.
> 
> Also, I am very happy to report that the whole-screen floating black levels that are so common on LED-lit TVs simply did not happen on the Sharp Elite. I used the fabulous new Extended Edition Fellowship of the Ring BluRay to look for this, as its opening scenes work great for revealing it: I saw no floating whatsoever. A dark background with text in the middle of the screen was exactly as dark as a total 0% signal using test patterns. Ditto for dark areas of the background when viewing mixed content. Now, how did Sharp and Pioneer manage to achieve this, you ask? Well, they set up the LED backlight so that it never actually turns all the way off. The LEDs do get very, very dark, but they never quite turn all the way off, and that’s as it should be. When LEDs turn all the way off in any LED-lit LCD, you get those horrid screen-wide floating black levels for one thing, and you also get an artifact whereby the LEDs will leave a slight afterimage of light trailing after objects during fast motion in high-contrast scenes. This happens because the LEDs have slower response rates than the LCD pixels, so the backlight cannot quite keep up with all the screen transitions getting displayed. Much of the reason for this delay in LED response comes from the fact that LEDs are much slower about going from an Off state to an On state or vice versa than they are about going from high to low or low to high On states. The best solution for this, then, is to set the backlight so that it never quite turns all the way off, but still gets as dark as the LEDs can while still remaining switched on. The Elite does this and does it better than any other LED-lit TV I’ve seen. This is one area where companies like Samsung and LG really have a lot to learn. I advise them to study the X5FD Elites very closely and do everything they can to mimic them.
> 
> Motion resolution on the Elites is substantially better than I’ve seen on any other LCDs, but still not as good as on the better plasmas (Robert and Wendy’s VT30, for instance, handled fast and mixed motion far better). The SOE effect, I am happy to report, was nowhere to be seen when sticking just with the 120hz interpolation software. Only when activating Fluid Motion did we see any SOE. So here, too, everything Kevin Miller said in his review was spot on. (Duh! Wotta surprise.)
> 
> Now I come to my last point, where I found something very interesting about the causes of which I can only speculate at this time. In the videos I took of the TV, viewers will note that the screen seems to flicker a lot. That, I assure you, is entirely a function of my camera and in no way visible to the naked eye, even when blinking really fast to try and catch it. Believe me, I tried. Visually the picture is perfect. On the video footage, though, I did find several scenes wherein the flickering went away. For instance, have a look at the opening title scene from inside Bilbo’s _Smial_, especially when the camera is focused on the map during Ian Holms’ voiceover. There I see no flickering on the video at all. Now, why would this be?? Why would the video camera manage to pick up this visually imperceptible flicker in one sort of scene, but not in another??? It’s all very intriguing, isn’t it? Here’s my current hypothesis: the flickering that the video camera registers is coming from rapid refreshing of the local dimming zones in the backlight, which will occur anytime there’s any sort of mixed content on the screen for which their dimming functions might be needed. When there is no such mixed content, though, the zones stop their rapid refreshing and just stay in a fixed state until called to do otherwise. During that map scene, after all, the screen content is very uniform and nearly static. Once some mixed content gets on there, though, the rapid zone-refreshing starts back up and my video footage starts to flicker again. Please note well: this is only an untutored hypothesis that I have formed. To know for sure what’s going on there, we’ll need the expertise of Kevin Miller and/or D-Nice.
> 
> Okay, so that’s my report. I’m sorry it took me so long to write it up and post it, but school has started back up at my college and I have been very busy with all of that. This coming Tuesday is the first day of classes, you see, so I’ve been spending the bulk of my time preparing.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


David, no apology required....Life before hobby. 

I do want to thank you for the comprehensive review. It's excellent. Now I can hardly wait to see one for myself.

-Best,
John


----------



## davidjschenk

aleicgrant said:


> oh man my heart just skipped a beat. Thank you DAVID
> where might we find your videos and pics?


They're uploading onto Youtube right now. I'll post the links as soon as they're live.

Yours,

David


----------



## davidjschenk

The first video of three is now live:






Yours,

David


----------



## mechman

Thanks for the review David! :T


----------



## davidjschenk

Thanks for the kind comments, everyone. I just wish I could have gotten to this stuff sooner. Let me insert a disclaimer I've made elsewhere: beyond their ability to show the variation in the TV's producing a flicker effect on my video camera, I don't imagine these videos will provide a whole lot of useful information for technically savvy enthusiasts. They're just intended to show (1) how very big that screen is (my camera was five feet away from the screen and zoomed all the way out, but it still couldn't get the entire picture on screen), and (2) how smooth the local dimming software is on it.

The other two videos are live now:











Yours,

David


----------



## Radtech51

^^ Thank you for the review David!


----------



## Robert Zohn

David, thank you for your excellent detailed review and very nice videos. 

Thanks for posting on HTS! 

-Robert


----------



## donnymac

Great job David. Thank you for pointing out the flaws however minor they are. Soundds like this tv is meant for a dedicated home theater room and not in J6Ps sunlit living room.


----------



## tomboyter

Thanks David we were all concerned about you and glad to know that the delay was "Life as Usual" and not something dire....what I can see from the videos is that the Elite is WAAAAAAYYYY too reflective for my situation, and the blackout curtains idea won't work for Saturday afternoons with SEC football, and probably won't work for evening movie watching with lamps on in the room. Same issue I have always had with plasma in this particular room. You have no idea how disappointed I am at this moment, and I certainly plan to see it for myself before completely discounting it as a possiblity, but MAN, you can see every ceiling light and the windows and something rectangular that shows up in the middle of the screen, especially on dark scenes. Thank you again for your willingness to share you thoughts and experiences.


----------



## Radtech51

^^ I thought he said is wasn't any more reflective then any of the current TV's out right now? Also Robert said it's about the same as the VT30 reflection wise and an (LCD/LED) will always shine better then a Plasma TV in a very bright room. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong here but I don't think a Plasma is going to help him out much more here.


----------



## Robert Zohn

I can answer this one as I watch these TVs every day in all ambient room light conditions. 

First, I want to say our 70" X5FD is wall mounted in the worst possible place for demonstration as we have very large store windows that face west so the afternoon sun blasts into our store with the force that only nature herself could unleash. Our Elite is directly facing those windows. Further, dark scenes show reflection more than normal scenes, so for example Sunday afternoon football is very bright and colorful so reflections will not be nearly as bad; we were demonstrating Hollywood movies with very dark scenes.

We also had bright high hat lights on. Just turning off the room lights and drawing dark window treatments will take care of most reflections.

Regarding the difference between the reflectivity of the VT30 vs. the new Elite X5FD, I would say the Elite is slightly more reflective. But the overall picture quality in a bright room is significantly better on the Elite. 

Hope this helps.

-Robert


----------



## cajieboy

David, excellent review and appreciate all the time & effort you made in producing it. Great job!


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert, add to that the poster should also invest in some bias lighting for night time viewing. That would truly make this a theater like experience and provide some low level lighting. Counting the day until I order this beasty


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> I can answer this one as I watch these TVs every day in all ambient room light conditions.
> 
> First, I want to say our 70" X5FD is wall mounted in the worst possible place for demonstration as we have very large store windows that face west so the afternoon sun blasts into our store with the force that only nature herself could unleash. Our Elite is directly facing those windows. Further, dark scenes show reflection more than normal scenes, so for example Sunday afternoon football is very bright and colorful so reflections will not be nearly as bad; we were demonstrating Hollywood movies with very dark scenes.
> 
> We also had bright high hat lights on. Just turning off the room lights and drawing dark window treatments will take care of most reflections.
> 
> Regarding the difference between the reflectivity of the VT30 vs. the new Elite X5FD, I would say the Elite is slightly more reflective. But the overall picture quality in a bright room is significantly better on the Elite.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -Robert


That's exactly what I thought to buddy > "the overall picture quality in a bright room is significantly better on the Elite." If he used a Plasma in that room it would be way worse. :yikes:


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct, LCD/LED displays stand up much better in high ambient light conditions, vs. plasma. Plasma's lose their ability to deliver the deep black level as the ambient light increases.

-Robert


----------



## Donmonte

Hello Robert,

I posted this question elsewhere but would love to hear your feedback on it if you have the time.

I currently have a kuro 600M, and my main gripes with it are the DSE, and the way it handles 24fps material. I find that on some horizontal panning scenes with high contrast, sometimes I get a mess of the colors and some flickering before they "calm" themselves and get back to normal. I don't know if what I am seeing is what people call phosphor trails but I don't notice them in games where people usually complain about seeing them. Is this a trait of plasma technology, and does this Elite behave similarly regarding 24pfs motion ? 
Also with the motion interpolation set to low, do you find it gives a similar movement to the Sony 's motionflow, with I find much more pleasing than my Kuro while watching movies ?

Thank you for any hindsight you might have.


----------



## tomboyter

I get the feeling that some have mis-read my post regarding the use of plasma in my den....fact is that I tried it, but had to move the plasma to the bedroom and buy a rear projection for the den. The Panasonic plasma was a professional panel, top of the line at the time with what was supposed to be state of the art anti-reflective screen coating, but the ambient light was just overwhelming for it and the reflections were just too annoying. The JVC rear pro has a high gain screen that shows almost no reflections at all. It has its own issues for sure, the "silk screen effect" being the major one, but it does allow us to watch TV during the daytime and with room lights turned on. Bias lighting is something that we have tried, and it does seem to help improve contrast/black level but that lighting is behind the screen and does nothing to affect the reflections coming from in front of the screen. I have absolutely no interst in raining on anyone's parade, but I do have direct experience with the reflection issue and don't want to spend five thousand dollars on a TV that we can't watch without remodeling the house. My son has a similar situation in his den, and he put the 65" VT25 in his room, and he loves it but struggles with the refelctions even with the curtains drawn. Fabulous picture when the sun goes down though. I'm hoping that Robert is right, that screen reflectivity is not a deal breaker on the Elite, but watching those three videos very clearly shows every light in the ceiling and the windows ect. Hopeful still, but serious reservations at this point.


----------



## HONOR

Hey guys, 

I am having some trouble posting pictures, but they are up on HDJ. Sorry for the bad quality and camera shake!


----------



## Robert Zohn

tomboyter said:


> I get the feeling that some have mis-read my post regarding the use of plasma in my den....fact is that I tried it, but had to move the plasma to the bedroom and buy a rear projection for the den. The Panasonic plasma was a professional panel, top of the line at the time with what was supposed to be state of the art anti-reflective screen coating, but the ambient light was just overwhelming for it and the reflections were just too annoying. The JVC rear pro has a high gain screen that shows almost no reflections at all. It has its own issues for sure, the "silk screen effect" being the major one, but it does allow us to watch TV during the daytime and with room lights turned on. Bias lighting is something that we have tried, and it does seem to help improve contrast/black level but that lighting is behind the screen and does nothing to affect the reflections coming from in front of the screen. I have absolutely no interst in raining on anyone's parade, but I do have direct experience with the reflection issue and don't want to spend five thousand dollars on a TV that we can't watch without remodeling the house. My son has a similar situation in his den, and he put the 65" VT25 in his room, and he loves it but struggles with the refelctions even with the curtains drawn. Fabulous picture when the sun goes down though. I'm hoping that Robert is right, that screen reflectivity is not a deal breaker on the Elite, but watching those three videos very clearly shows every light in the ceiling and the windows ect. Hopeful still, but serious reservations at this point.


The Elite does have a glossier screen that the VT30 so if the VT30 is too reflective and assuming you are buying this TV for the same room the Sharp will not work for you.

Hope my earlier post was not misleading as to how reflective the Elite screen is.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Donmonte said:


> Hello Robert,
> 
> I posted this question elsewhere but would love to hear your feedback on it if you have the time.
> 
> I currently have a kuro 600M, and my main gripes with it are the DSE, and the way it handles 24fps material. I find that on some horizontal panning scenes with high contrast, sometimes I get a mess of the colors and some flickering before they "calm" themselves and get back to normal. I don't know if what I am seeing is what people call phosphor trails but I don't notice them in games where people usually complain about seeing them. Is this a trait of plasma technology, and does this Elite behave similarly regarding 24pfs motion ?
> Also with the motion interpolation set to low, do you find it gives a similar movement to the Sony 's motionflow, with I find much more pleasing than my Kuro while watching movies ?
> 
> Thank you for any hindsight you might have.


With a properly calibrated KRP-600M I do not see dirty screen effect. Now with that said, the new Elite produces a much brighter image and the whites appear whiter as they are brighter. 

Not sure on the comparison of Sony's Motion Flow to Sharp's frame rate settings. We'll test this at our flat panel shoot-out. I can tell you the motion resolution is very good on the Elite.

I think you are seeing phosphor trails, but David Schenk can answer that best. 

-Robert


----------



## tomboyter

Thanks Robert, you are an incredible resourse for all of us !


----------



## davidjschenk

Donmonte said:


> Hello Robert,
> 
> I posted this question elsewhere but would love to hear your feedback on it if you have the time.
> 
> I currently have a kuro 600M, and my main gripes with it are the DSE, and the way it handles 24fps material. I find that on some horizontal panning scenes with high contrast, sometimes I get a mess of the colors and some flickering before they "calm" themselves and get back to normal. I don't know if what I am seeing is what people call phosphor trails but I don't notice them in games where people usually complain about seeing them. Is this a trait of plasma technology, and does this Elite behave similarly regarding 24pfs motion ?
> Also with the motion interpolation set to low, do you find it gives a similar movement to the Sony 's motionflow, with I find much more pleasing than my Kuro while watching movies ?
> 
> Thank you for any hindsight you might have.





Robert Zohn said:


> I think you are seeing phosphor trails, but David Schenk can answer that best.
> 
> -Robert


Hi, guys,

Well, those don't quite _sound_ like phosphor trails to me, but from your description I can't be sure yet, Donmonte. Let me ask you a few questions:

Do you see these colors as flashes of color on the screen that just last for an instant, or do they linger? Trails don't stick around.
Which colors do you see? The great majority of people who are sensitive to them only see yellow and green flashes, and only where the high-contrast material is located.
Do you ever see them on high-contrast material wherein there is no motion on the screen? Trails depend more on contrast levels and the room being dark than on on-screen motion.
Yours,

David


----------



## mechman

HONOR said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I am having some trouble posting pictures, but they are up on HDJ. Sorry for the bad quality and camera shake!


You needed 5 posts to post links and pictures. It can take an hour or so before it takes effect after your last post. You should be good to go now. 

Also, you can host them in the gallery here if you'd like to. :T


----------



## Donmonte

Thank you Robert and David for your kind responses.

A good example of what I'm seeing occurs in the movie "UNDERWORLD" at 16m24s until 16m31s. During that scene where the guns on the table are panning horizontally, you can clearly see the chrome of the guns flickering against the dark background throughout the panning.
This effect manifests itself during other movies, which I find tiring in the long run and has made me question my display when everybody says that plasma motion is still second to none.
Another good example happens during the "FIGHT CLUB" title screen, when the room is panning in a 360 manner, the white text in bold has a very annoying flicker throughout the panning.
I have calibrated my set using the SPEARS & MUNSIL blu ray, and no amount of tinkering can eliminate these issues. I love my set were it not for this motion anomaly, which I don't know if it is plasma exclusive or not.
If the Sharp ELITE doesn't exhibit this then the 70inch should be my next set.

Thank you.


----------



## HYMER DAXTER

Hi everyone.What about 3D, how is it on the X5? Thanks!


----------



## davidjschenk

Donmonte said:


> Thank you Robert and David for your kind responses.
> 
> A good example of what I'm seeing occurs in the movie "UNDERWORLD" at 16m24s until 16m31s. During that scene where the guns on the table are panning horizontally, you can clearly see the chrome of the guns flickering against the dark background throughout the panning.
> This effect manifests itself during other movies, which I find tiring in the long run and has made me question my display when everybody says that plasma motion is still second to none.
> Another good example happens during the "FIGHT CLUB" title screen, when the room is panning in a 360 manner, the white text in bold has a very annoying flicker throughout the panning.
> I have calibrated my set using the SPEARS & MUNSIL blu ray, and no amount of tinkering can eliminate these issues. I love my set were it not for this motion anomaly, which I don't know if it is plasma exclusive or not.
> If the Sharp ELITE doesn't exhibit this then the 70inch should be my next set.
> 
> Thank you.


Hi Donmonte,

No, that doesn't sound like trails to me at all. Trails don't involve any flickering. That sounds to me like either a settings problem or a defect in your unit, as I never saw it in any of the Kuros I watched. Now, don't freak out just yet: many, many possible settings in the TV and in the rest of your video chain could be causing the flaw you're seeing. But it is at least possible the TV itself has a legit hardware defect.

Yours,

David


----------



## Donmonte

Thanks again David,

I tried connecting my blu-ray player to an old Panasonic 50px600 that i have, which is 1366 x 768... and i could see the same effect during those particular scenes... which rules out that my Kuro is defective :sweat:
In every other regard, the set is excellent i only notice it during panning depending on the content, so around 94% of the movie looks great.
The blu-ray players i used are the Oppo 83 and the PS3.

Could you or anyone else try those aforementioned scenes on a plasma, and report back ? 
Maybe plasma is not for me after all, which will be my excuse to upgrade soon to this Elite..

All the best.


----------



## davidjschenk

Donmonte said:


> Thanks again David,
> 
> I tried connecting my blu-ray player to an old Panasonic 50px600 that i have, which is 1366 x 768... and i could see the same effect during those particular scenes... which rules out that my Kuro is defective :sweat:
> In every other regard, the set is excellent i only notice it during panning depending on the content, so around 94% of the movie looks great.
> The blu-ray players i used are the Oppo 83 and the PS3.
> 
> Could you or anyone else try those aforementioned scenes on a plasma, and report back ?
> Maybe plasma is not for me after all, which will be my excuse to upgrade soon to this Elite..
> 
> All the best.


Hi Donmonte,

I don't own a plasma myself, but I have many friends who do, so if no one else pursues this, I can give it a try in a week or so, here.

Yours,

David


----------



## Donmonte

Thank you so much David, much appreciated !!

All the best.


----------



## HONOR

This is a new video


----------



## Hutchinshouse

OK, my 2 cents,
I just had a look at the 60” Elite. Here’s my novice notes after spending 20 minutes with the TV.


A beautiful design, the TV looks absolutely stunning.
The contract ratio and black level were the best in the store, no if ands or buts.
The glare not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. But yes, there was glare.
Motion, was far better than my Sony 52XBR4. However, not as good as plasma.
Color was excellent.
After looking at the 60” Elite and the Samsung PN59D8000. I can tell you, from a novice perspective, they are both high on my list.

My take, the Elite has a good chance of winning the shootout. Its only Achilles heel, motion not on par with plasma. Albeit, still the best LCD I’ve ever seen.

Again, I’m far from a pro, just a dude who wants the best TV out there today. I’m very meticulous when it comes to authentic picture quality.


----------



## donnymac

Hutchinshouse said:


> OK, my 2 cents,
> I just had a look at the 60” Elite. Here’s my novice notes after spending 20 minutes with the TV.
> 
> 
> A beautiful design, the TV looks absolutely stunning.
> The contract ratio and black level were the best in the store, no if ands or buts.
> The glare not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. But yes, there was glare.
> Motion, was far better than my Sony 52XBR4. However, not as good as plasma.
> Color was excellent.
> After looking at the 60” Elite and the Samsung PN59D8000. I can tell you, from a novice perspective, they are both high on my list.
> 
> My take, the Elite has a good chance of winning the shootout. Its only Achilles heel, motion not on par with plasma. Albeit, still the best LCD I’ve ever seen.
> 
> Again, I’m far from a pro, just a dude who wants the best TV out there today. I’m very meticulous when it comes to authentic picture quality.


Nice post. Good info. What store did you see it at?


----------



## Glenee

Robert, 
I hope all is well with your Family Home and Business after the Hurricane passed.
Give Us a little indication that all is well.
:dontknow:
Glen


----------



## cleveland plasma

Hutchinshouse said:


> After looking at the 60” Elite and the Samsung PN59D8000. I can tell you, from a novice perspective, they are both high on my list.


 If you are personally saying these are close, seems the answers is obvious as the cost of the samsung is 50%-60% less....


----------



## Hutchinshouse

donnymac said:


> Nice post. Good info. What store did you see it at?


Video and Audio Center in So Cal.

They actually have the Elite in one of their ads.
https://www.videoandaudiocenter.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/homepage/LATimes82611.gif


----------



## Hutchinshouse

cleveland plasma said:


> If you are personally saying these are close, seems the answers is obvious as the cost of the samsung is 50%-60% less....


With my untrained but meticulous eye, they both were close. Elite had richer blacks, the Samsung had better motion. I also like the advantages of LCD/LED. I have a bright room, the Elite will outperform the Samsung in my environment. I’m willing to pay more if it’s my better option.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Glenee said:


> Robert,
> I hope all is well with your Family Home and Business after the Hurricane passed.
> Give Us a little indication that all is well.
> :dontknow:
> Glen


Hi Glenee, yes all is well here in Scarsdale, NY. We were well prepared with sand bags in the areas that could get water in our warehouses and my home. We all stayed inside so no one got hurt and no damage to anything.



cleveland plasma said:


> If you are personally saying these are close, seems the answers is obvious as the cost of the samsung is 50%-60% less....


I would not say the answer is obvious as these TVs are very different in many ways. 

-Robert


----------



## dsinger

Glad to hear everyone survived intact. NYC looked like a mess on the news.


----------



## cleveland plasma

Hutchinshouse said:


> With my untrained but meticulous eye, they both were close. Elite had richer blacks, the Samsung had better motion. I also like the advantages of LCD/LED. I have a bright room, the Elite will outperform the Samsung in my environment. I’m willing to pay more if it’s my better option.


 I hear ya, to each there own, they are both fine displays and there are plenty of PNxxD8000 owners out there..... *I was reassuring your original statement *


----------



## Radtech51

Hutchinshouse said:


> OK, my 2 cents,
> I just had a look at the 60” Elite. Here’s my novice notes after spending 20 minutes with the TV.
> 
> 
> A beautiful design, the TV looks absolutely stunning.
> The contract ratio and black level were the best in the store, no if ands or buts.
> The glare not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. But yes, there was glare.
> Motion, was far better than my Sony 52XBR4. However, not as good as plasma.
> Color was excellent.
> After looking at the 60” Elite and the Samsung PN59D8000. I can tell you, from a novice perspective, they are both high on my list.
> 
> My take, the Elite has a good chance of winning the shootout. Its only Achilles heel, motion not on par with plasma. Albeit, still the best LCD I’ve ever seen.
> 
> Again, I’m far from a pro, just a dude who wants the best TV out there today. I’m very meticulous when it comes to authentic picture quality.


Hi buddy, nice post thank you for sharing that with us, how do you feel the motion handled compaired to the Sony 929?


----------



## davidjschenk

Hutchinshouse said:


> OK, my 2 cents,
> I just had a look at the 60” Elite. Here’s my novice notes after spending 20 minutes with the TV.
> 
> 
> A beautiful design, the TV looks absolutely stunning.
> The contract ratio and black level were the best in the store, no if ands or buts.
> The glare not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. But yes, there was glare.
> Motion, was far better than my Sony 52XBR4. However, not as good as plasma.
> Color was excellent.
> After looking at the 60” Elite and the Samsung PN59D8000. I can tell you, from a novice perspective, they are both high on my list.
> 
> My take, the Elite has a good chance of winning the shootout. Its only Achilles heel, motion not on par with plasma. Albeit, still the best LCD I’ve ever seen.
> 
> Again, I’m far from a pro, just a dude who wants the best TV out there today. I’m very meticulous when it comes to authentic picture quality.


Thanks for posting that report, Hutchinshouse; your comments succinctly reflect my own experiences. The issue with reflections in particular is getting overblown on other sites. It really isn't all that bad.

While not everyone may notice it right away, the Elite's grayscale tracking and color properties are far superior to anything you can find from Samsung, LG or the rest (grayscale tracking in particular is absurdly good). Save perhaps for the 9.xG Kuro, I seriously have never seen a flat-panel TV that even comes close to providing such a solid, accurate picture right out of the box. Just press the button to go into Movie THX mode, and you very nearly have the equivalent of a professionally calibrated picture right there. Gamma'll need some fixin'; otherwise, you're all set.

Yours,

David


----------



## HONOR

Radtech51 said:


> Hi buddy, nice post thank you for sharing that with us, how do you feel the motion handled compaired to the Sony 929?


MOTION:

Elite>Sony 
But the 929 is still a great display


----------



## Hutchinshouse

HONOR said:


> MOTION:
> 
> Elite>Sony
> But the 929 is still a great display


+1

I agree, what I saw today, the Elite is truly elite. Now I want that 70"er!


----------



## Radtech51

HONOR said:


> MOTION:
> 
> Elite>Sony
> But the 929 is still a great display


Thanks Honor that's great news since I actually thought the 929 looked great. I'm really looking forward to seeing the Elite in person.


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert has a pic on his FB of a nice shipment of 60 inch sets that just came in. The real deal is on the way to some very lucky owners !!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> Robert has a pic on his FB of a nice shipment of 60 inch sets that just came in. The real deal is on the way to some very lucky owners !!!!!!!!!!!


Nice! :sn:


----------



## BluDroid

aleicgrant said:


> Robert has a pic on his FB of a nice shipment of 60 inch sets that just came in. The real deal is on the way to some very lucky owners !!!!!!!!!!!


Very nice! :drool:


----------



## Radtech51

Hi Robert I Asume your super busy with all those new Elites coming in. I'm going to try and go see one this weekend if I can, I'm super excited about all this it's like a historical event! lddude:


----------



## Radtech51

I just found out I'll be getting my 70" ELITE this Sunday the 4th! I'll be sure to take pictures and video for everyone! :sn:


----------



## aleicgrant

you LB


----------



## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> you LB


I'm still in shock!


----------



## aleicgrant

you better be ready to deliver the good on pics and video or the angry mod might come for you !!!!!


----------



## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> you better be ready to deliver the good on pics and video or the angry mod might come for you !!!!!


I have an 18mp Canon just ready for the job, pictures and video should be nice!


----------



## dsskid

Congrats. Looks like you'll be watching a lot of programming on Monday.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> Congrats. Looks like you'll be watching a lot of programming on Monday.


Thank you!


----------



## jmf67

I found this forum so useful to my tv purchase, I wanted to share my experience...

A few years back I had Kevin Miller calibrate my pioneer elite kuro pro110fd. I contacted him about two weeks ago to get a recommendation on a new tv of the Kuro caliber. He said to check out the Elite pro x5fd. So I read his review and got very excited. Then I started reading threads on forums like this. I saw a whole bunch of comments and replies from Robert at value electronics and I he also seemed to know what he was talking about. I called him directly to get his opinion on the elite. He could not say enough goods things about it. So between the opinions of two experts (Kevin & Robert) of the industry, I was sold on the elite pro70x5fd. I ordered it sight unseen with Robert at Value Electronics. I could not believe I was dropping a lot of money on something I have not seen in person, but talking with those guys, I knew I could not go wrong. 

Then I started to get a little nervous thinking will this tv be too big for my apartment. So the other day I took take a train ride to Roberts store to see it in person. It is the most beautiful tv / picture I have ever seen. I love my pioneer elite pro110fd kuro and I always thought the image was perfect, but the elite pro 70x5fd blew me away. Bye bye Kuro and hello Elite. I watched a little bit of a nature dvd and Avatar in bluray 3D. My tongue is still dragging on the floor. 

When I was at Value, Robert was in the city at a clients. I got to work with Wendy who was great. She also helped me pick out the pioneer elite 52 receiver and pioneer elite 43 blu ray player. Also, since I have seatings at different angles, I will be putting this tv on an articulaing arm.

I'm hoping to have delivery and installation of everything will be at the end of next week. I will post a few pictures when it's all set up.

FYI, Robert is going to run the break in dvd (to insure tv is perfect) at his shop and then Kevin is going to come to my apartment to calibrate the tv to my components.

I must say, I really enjoyed the experience of working with Value Electronics. It is really nice to be able to work with a kind of mom & pop shop as opposed to the big dept stores. I don't think the and level of expertise can compare to them. I did purchase my pioneer kuro from Best Buy and everything was great, but working with Value is at a different level. The break in, white glove delivery and mounting are included in the price. I know this might sound like I'm a family member or good friend of Value electronics, but I promise I never even heard of them until two weeks ago when I read a bunch of Roberts comments on this and Home theater shack forums.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

jmf67 said:


> I found this forum so useful to my tv purchase, I wanted to share my experience...
> 
> A few years back I had Kevin Miller calibrate my pioneer elite kuro pro110fd. I contacted him about two weeks ago to get a recommendation on a new tv of the Kuro caliber. He said to check out the Elite pro x5fd. So I read his review and got very excited. Then I started reading threads on forums like this. I saw a whole bunch of comments and replies from Robert at value electronics and I he also seemed to know what he was talking about. I called him directly to get his opinion on the elite. He could not say enough goods things about it. So between the opinions of two experts (Kevin & Robert) of the industry, I was sold on the elite pro70x5fd. I ordered it sight unseen with Robert at Value Electronics. I could not believe I was dropping a lot of money on something I have not seen in person, but talking with those guys, I knew I could not go wrong.
> 
> Then I started to get a little nervous thinking will this tv be too big for my apartment. So the other day I took take a train ride to Roberts store to see it in person. It is the most beautiful tv / picture I have ever seen. I love my pioneer elite pro110fd kuro and I always thought the image was perfect, but the elite pro 70x5fd blew me away. Bye bye Kuro and hello Elite. I watched a little bit of a nature dvd and Avatar in bluray 3D. My tongue is still dragging on the floor.
> 
> When I was at Value, Robert was in the city at a clients. I got to work with Wendy who was great. She also helped me pick out the pioneer elite 52 receiver and pioneer elite 43 blu ray player. Also, since I have seatings at different angles, I will be putting this tv on an articulaing arm.
> 
> I'm hoping to have delivery and installation of everything will be at the end of next week. I will post a few pictures when it's all set up.
> 
> FYI, Robert is going to run the break in dvd (to insure tv is perfect) at his shop and then Kevin is going to come to my apartment to calibrate the tv to my components.
> 
> I must say, I really enjoyed the experience of working with Value Electronics. It is really nice to be able to work with a kind of mom & pop shop as opposed to the big dept stores. I don't think the and level of expertise can compare to them. I did purchase my pioneer kuro from Best Buy and everything was great, but working with Value is at a different level. The break in, white glove delivery and mounting are included in the price. I know this might sound like I'm a family member or good friend of Value electronics, but I promise I never even heard of them until two weeks ago when I read a bunch of Roberts comments on this and Home theater shack forums.



Really looking forward to the pics of your TV once it’s installed.

“_Bye bye Kuro and hello Elite_.” That is a bold promising statement. :rubeyes:

If I was close to NY, I’d buy my TV at VE too…!


----------



## Radtech51

jmf67 said:


> I found this forum so useful to my tv purchase, I wanted to share my experience...
> 
> A few years back I had Kevin Miller calibrate my pioneer elite kuro pro110fd. I contacted him about two weeks ago to get a recommendation on a new tv of the Kuro caliber. He said to check out the Elite pro x5fd. So I read his review and got very excited. Then I started reading threads on forums like this. I saw a whole bunch of comments and replies from Robert at value electronics and I he also seemed to know what he was talking about. I called him directly to get his opinion on the elite. He could not say enough goods things about it. So between the opinions of two experts (Kevin & Robert) of the industry, I was sold on the elite pro70x5fd. I ordered it sight unseen with Robert at Value Electronics. I could not believe I was dropping a lot of money on something I have not seen in person, but talking with those guys, I knew I could not go wrong.
> 
> Then I started to get a little nervous thinking will this tv be too big for my apartment. So the other day I took take a train ride to Roberts store to see it in person. It is the most beautiful tv / picture I have ever seen. I love my pioneer elite pro110fd kuro and I always thought the image was perfect, but the elite pro 70x5fd blew me away. Bye bye Kuro and hello Elite. I watched a little bit of a nature dvd and Avatar in bluray 3D. My tongue is still dragging on the floor.
> 
> When I was at Value, Robert was in the city at a clients. I got to work with Wendy who was great. She also helped me pick out the pioneer elite 52 receiver and pioneer elite 43 blu ray player. Also, since I have seatings at different angles, I will be putting this tv on an articulaing arm.
> 
> I'm hoping to have delivery and installation of everything will be at the end of next week. I will post a few pictures when it's all set up.
> 
> FYI, Robert is going to run the break in dvd (to insure tv is perfect) at his shop and then Kevin is going to come to my apartment to calibrate the tv to my components.
> 
> I must say, I really enjoyed the experience of working with Value Electronics. It is really nice to be able to work with a kind of mom & pop shop as opposed to the big dept stores. I don't think the and level of expertise can compare to them. I did purchase my pioneer kuro from Best Buy and everything was great, but working with Value is at a different level. The break in, white glove delivery and mounting are included in the price. I know this might sound like I'm a family member or good friend of Value electronics, but I promise I never even heard of them until two weeks ago when I read a bunch of Roberts comments on this and Home theater shack forums.


Grats! Welcome to the ELITE club buddy! Great choice going with value electronics, I just picked up my Pioneer BDP-43FD Blu-ray player last night and should be getting my PRO-70X5FD this Sunday! Super excited here can't Waite! I was thinking about picking up the Pioneer Elite SC-57 9.1-Channel A/V Receiver to go with everything. Good times! :sn:


----------



## Glenee

jmf67 said:


> I found this forum so useful to my tv purchase, I wanted to share my experience...
> 
> A few years back I had Kevin Miller calibrate my pioneer elite kuro pro110fd. I contacted him about two weeks ago to get a recommendation on a new tv of the Kuro caliber. He said to check out the Elite pro x5fd. So I read his review and got very excited. Then I started reading threads on forums like this. I saw a whole bunch of comments and replies from Robert at value electronics and I he also seemed to know what he was talking about. I called him directly to get his opinion on the elite. He could not say enough goods things about it. So between the opinions of two experts (Kevin & Robert) of the industry, I was sold on the elite pro70x5fd. I ordered it sight unseen with Robert at Value Electronics. I could not believe I was dropping a lot of money on something I have not seen in person, but talking with those guys, I knew I could not go wrong.
> 
> Then I started to get a little nervous thinking will this tv be too big for my apartment. So the other day I took take a train ride to Roberts store to see it in person. It is the most beautiful tv / picture I have ever seen. I love my pioneer elite pro110fd kuro and I always thought the image was perfect, but the elite pro 70x5fd blew me away. Bye bye Kuro and hello Elite. I watched a little bit of a nature dvd and Avatar in bluray 3D. My tongue is still dragging on the floor.
> 
> When I was at Value, Robert was in the city at a clients. I got to work with Wendy who was great. She also helped me pick out the pioneer elite 52 receiver and pioneer elite 43 blu ray player. Also, since I have seatings at different angles, I will be putting this tv on an articulaing arm.
> 
> I'm hoping to have delivery and installation of everything will be at the end of next week. I will post a few pictures when it's all set up.
> 
> FYI, Robert is going to run the break in dvd (to insure tv is perfect) at his shop and then Kevin is going to come to my apartment to calibrate the tv to my components.
> 
> I must say, I really enjoyed the experience of working with Value Electronics. It is really nice to be able to work with a kind of mom & pop shop as opposed to the big dept stores. I don't think the and level of expertise can compare to them. I did purchase my pioneer kuro from Best Buy and everything was great, but working with Value is at a different level. The break in, white glove delivery and mounting are included in the price. I know this might sound like I'm a family member or good friend of Value electronics, but I promise I never even heard of them until two weeks ago when I read a bunch of Roberts comments on this and Home theater shack forums.


All it takes is ONE transaction with Robert and Wendy and your hooked. Believe it or not this is the way it used to be with all Business's Years ago. The Vendor actually considered you a Customer and wanted you to come back for more. Nice isn't it.


----------



## aleicgrant

Glenee said:


> All it takes is ONE transaction with Robert and Wendy and your hooked. Believe it or not this is the way it used to be with all Business's Years ago. The Vendor actually considered you a Customer and wanted you to come back for more. Nice isn't it.


+1000000


----------



## JClam

Robert, quick question for you (or anyone else who might know): Will the new Elite's use Pioneer ir codes or Sharp ir codes for remote control? Any chance you can find out if it there is an HTTP command set for wireless control over a network, and if so, over what port? I'd like to get started programming iRule on my iPad for when my new system gets installed.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## JClam

Never mind, I found it in the manual, pages 68 and 69 if anyone else is looking.


----------



## aleicgrant

lots of people going nuts on HDJ over how reflective they think this set is going to be. Buy some curtains will ya


----------



## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> lots of people going nuts on HDJ over how reflective they think this set is going to be. Buy some curtains will ya


LoL no kidding! :T


----------



## davidjschenk

aleicgrant said:


> lots of people going nuts on HDJ over how reflective they think this set is going to be. Buy some curtains will ya


I did try to advocate that very simple solution. Oh, well ... some people just aren't willing to do it. I guess they think the curtains will ruin their nice, sunny view during the rest of the day, or something. But, I mean, that's why curtains have those little pull-cords on them; so you can pull the curtains out of the way and let in all the sunlight. It certainly makes sense to _me_ anyway.

Yours,

David

P.S.: Oh, and RadTecn51, many congratulations on your ueber-cool new top performance TV! I am envious.


----------



## Radtech51

davidjschenk said:


> I did try to advocate that very simple solution. Oh, well ... some people just aren't willing to do it. I guess they think the curtains will ruin their nice, sunny view during the rest of the day, or something. But, I mean, that's why curtains have those little pull-cords on them; so you can pull the curtains out of the way and let in all the sunlight. It certainly makes sense to _me_ anyway.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David
> 
> P.S.: Oh, and RadTecn51, many congratulations on your ueber-cool new top performance TV! I am envious.


Thank you my friend! :sn:


----------



## tomboyter

Regarding curtains....not everyone wants to spend a beautiful autumn afternoon with the curtains drawn so that you can see the television in the batcave. If you do, that's fine with me...but I think that you're going to find a lot of people that will object to the excessive reflectivity, and simply reject this TV because of it. I sincerely hope that you enjoy your purchases for many years to come !


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## Radtech51

tomboyter said:


> Regarding curtains....not everyone wants to spend a beautiful autumn afternoon with the curtains drawn so that you can see the television in the batcave. If you do, that's fine with me...but I think that you're going to find a lot of people that will object to the excessive reflectivity, and simply reject this TV because of it. I sincerely hope that you enjoy your purchases for many years to come !


That's fine and I see no reason why you can't do it both ways effectively with this ELITE. As for the Batcave comment that's the ideal setting to get the best picture quality, and if your watching Tv during the beautiful autumn afternoon as you put it you can't expect the picture to not be effected. Why do you think movie theaters are indoors in the Batcave? Because it looks best that way! :bigsmile:


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## aleicgrant

Radtech51 said:


> That's fine and I see no reason why you can't do it both ways effectively with this ELITE. As for the Batcave comment that's the ideal setting to get the best picture quality, and if your watching Tv during the beautiful autumn afternoon as you put it you can't expect the picture to not be effected. Why do you think movie theaters are indoors in the Batcave? Because it looks best that way! :bigsmile:


+10000

and every other lcd and plasma known to man is going to have the same problems. So can we stop beating the dead horse.


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## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> +10000
> 
> and every other lcd and plasma known to man is going to have the same problems. So can we stop beating the dead horse.


+1000


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## Robert Zohn

D-Nice is coming to my store and home tonight and I have 3 60" Elites and one 70" Elite ready for him to calibrate. He has 10 more VT30s to calibrate and a few GT30s for my clients. I'll be working with D-Nice as he calibrates each Elite and we'll be talking about his findings. 

-Robert


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## tomboyter

Robert Zohn said:


> D-Nice is coming to my store and home tonight and I have 3 60" Elites and one 70" Elite ready for him to calibrate. He has 10 more VT30s to calibrate and a few GT30s for my clients. I'll be working with D-Nice as he calibrates each Elite and we'll be talking about his findings.
> 
> -Robert


Now THIS is what everyone has been waiting for.....Robert be sure to mention to D-Nice that we all are holding our breath and some of us are beginning to turn blue !


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## Robert Zohn

Thanks tomboyter, I'm looking forward to seeing what will be the 2nd professional review. The first was Kevin Miller's. And of course, David Schenk gave us his in-depth review on this thread.

Our Elite X5FD calibrations are scheduled for Monday, 9/5/11

-Robert


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## jmf67

Hey Robert,

I'm looking forward to reading another review of the elite. Not that it really matters to me, as I already have the 70" on order with you. I have the delivery and installation scheduled for Friday. I'm hoping that date won't change, as I have not been able to sleep (in anticipation) since I ordered it. 

Best,
Jordan


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## Robert Zohn

Jordan, your 70" Elite delivery is set in stone. See you Friday!

-Robert


----------



## jmf67

Wahoo! I'm so excited...and just in time for football!
Thanks Robert...it's been a real pleasure doing business with you and Wendy.


----------



## dsinger

Robert Zohn said:


> Jordan, your 70" Elite delivery is set in stone. See you Friday!
> 
> -Robert


Robert: Speaking of deliveries, I haven't had a reply to my email asking for an update on the delivery of my 70X5. Friday would work for me as well!

Thanks

David Singer


----------



## Robert Zohn

David, two differences with your order is the ISF calibration and where you live. Looks like your 70" X5FD is scheduled to ship on Monday, 9/12.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

^^ That's great news Robert! Please keep us posted, I should be getting my 70" ELITE tomorrow super excited over here!


----------



## dsinger

Robert Zohn said:


> David, two differences with your order is the ISF calibration and where you live. Looks like your 70" X5FD is scheduled to ship on Monday, 9/12.
> 
> -Robert


Robert: Thanks for the above and the follow up email. I sent you an email in response that may speed up shipment. Thanks again DKS


----------



## Spiff69

I posted this on AVS, but thought it would be useful here too. I went to see the 60" on display today. It's a really nice set - I've been waiting on the 65HX929 for months and then this thing crops up. Here are some thoughts and observations:

Glare: Since this seems to be a hot button issue, I thought I would throw in my observation. It's reflective, but it's not terrible by any means. Is the 929 a bit better in this regard? From a lot of user accounts it is, but I didn't really notice it today. The ability of the display to overcome the gloss with a bright picture is pretty amazing. This thing can get "burn your retinas" bright. There was of course college football on today and the glare wasn't a problem as the image and content was always bright. Now, watching the Dark Knight with a house full of windows would probably be an issue, but not unwatchable. We were watching the Avatar blu-ray and there were certainly times that you could notice a reflection, but it wasn't too bad. I think anyone who thinks they might have an issue with it should see it for themselves and make a call. In some situations it may not be the best choice, but I don't see it being an issue for me.

Picture: Yeah, pretty outstanding - inky blacks, amazing color, plenty of brightness and contrast. THX mode was great, torch mode was terrible as expected. I saw no weird dithering or any troubling picture flaws. If there was flashlighting or bleeding, I certainly couldn't see it. Of course, that's the type of thing you'll only see in a really dark environment. There's certainly no doubt that this set is a contender.

Motion: I may have seen a tiny bit of weird judders, but if they were there they were minor and overall it looked pretty nice to me. I turned Fluidmotion off and things were very smooth.

Viewing Angle: Yes, definitely better than the 929. It is not perfect. There is falloff, but it is not severe at all.

Blooming: Tough to tell in a store environment, but I saw none. The only scene that might have shown it is the opening space scene in Avatar, but the stars were flawless from what I could see.

Build Quality/Aesthetics: I think it's really nice, actually. I don't think the pictures/renderings do it justice as it is a pretty nice looking set that looks pretty well constructed. I would agree with most others in that the 929 is probably a bit better looking, but it's not the ugly stepchild it has been made out to be. The brushed effect on the aluminum bezel is very minor and the set looks pretty classy overall. There are a few parts that are a bit plasticky, but it's not bad.

Conclusion: I like this set. I'm torn. I don't really need the extra size of the Sony 65" and I'm not sure what else I gain with the Sony. I have a 60" now and I think it's great for my viewing distance.

Anyway, I hope this helps some of you considering a purchase...


----------



## aleicgrant

spiff thanks for your comments. Rumor is the 65 inch of the 929 is now delayed to late November for those interested


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## Robert Zohn

Hi Spiff69, thanks for the review, which confirms much of what I feel. 

Just got back from picking up D-Nice at Laguardia airport and we're planning to calibrate a few Elite TVs tomorrow. I'll put one up on our shoot-out wall so I can do a comparison of the PRO-60X5FD against the 65" VT30, 59" D8000 and 55" HX929.

-Robert


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Hey everyone! I'm new to this forum. I've heard alot of good things about it from Robert at VE. I'm slated for the 15th for my 70". I'm getting mine calibrated by Kevin Miller, not D-Nice. Otherwise, I'd probably have it by Friday or so since it takes 100 hours for the break in period before calibration, which is much longer than originally projected of 72-75 hours. Kevin's on a busy schedule, but, , if you're spending decent money on it, do it right! Im sure D-Nice will do a great job as well. :sn:


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## Robert Zohn

Morning DJ Mike and thanks for joining HTS!

-Robert


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## DJ Mike Fury

Good morning Robert! Looks like a good day for the boat! BTW, I'm going to go with the Elite BDP-43 for the faster loading time...


----------



## Radtech51

Grats! I just picked up my Pioneer BDP-43FD Blu-ray player and it's nice.


----------



## Robert Zohn

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Good morning Robert! Looks like a good day for the boat! BTW, I'm going to go with the Elite BDP-43 for the faster loading time...


Two very excellent ideas! Pairing the two Elite's is very good thing to do. 

This is not true for you of course, but for for most folks...... You can tune a piano, but you can't tuna fish.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Radtech51 said:


> Grats! I just picked up my Pioneer BDP-43FD Blu-ray player and it's nice.


I love the look, performance and outstanding build quality of Pioneer's flagship 2011 BD player.

-Robert


----------



## Spiff69

Robert Zohn said:


> Hi Spiff69, thanks for the review, which confirms much of what I feel.
> 
> Just got back from picking up D-Nice at Laguardia airport and we're planning to calibrate a few Elite TVs tomorrow. I'll put one up on our shoot-out wall so I can do a comparison of the PRO-60X5FD against the 65" VT30, 59" D8000 and 55" HX929.
> 
> -Robert


That's fantastic news, Robert! I came close to pulling the trigger yesterday, lol, but I really do want to wait for feedback from end users and your team of gurus. It's not so easy to dismiss the other sets when you get close to a purchase. :dontknow:


----------



## Spiff69

aleicgrant said:


> spiff thanks for your comments. Rumor is the 65 inch of the 929 is now delayed to late November for those interested


I know, I'm pretty bummed. This TV is a reward for some very hard work this year and I didn't really want to wait until Christmas.


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## aleicgrant

Spiff69 said:


> I know, I'm pretty bummed. This TV is a reward for some very hard work this year and I didn't really want to wait until Christmas.


Then dont wait and order a 70 with Robert


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## Airgas1998

good afternoon members, new here figured i would say hi. my 60" elite from v.e. hopefully will be scheduled for delivery this Wednesday. Robert, it was a pleasure doing business with you. Can't wait for the shootout...


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## Spdntrxi

Robert Zohn said:


> I love the look, performance and outstanding build quality of Pioneer's flagship 2011 BD player.
> 
> -Robert


You may love the look and performance but the bdp43 is nothing more then a rebadged sharp player. It not up to the standards of older elite players. ... Personally I would wait and see if the come out with a "real" pioneer player for a better match fir the elite panel.


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## Robert Zohn

Spdntrxi, ^^ Actually you are correct for some of the 2010 models, but the 2011 flagship Pioneer Elite BDP-43 is Pioneer designed all the way. If you think it's a rebagged Sharp tell us which Sharp model it's like?

Pioneer's new Elite BDP-43 has seperate dedicated power supplies and curcits for audio and the video sections and the full metal armored chassis is very well built.

More good news on the Elite TV side.... Thanks to Kevin Miller, D-Nice and I just received the complete technical documents on how to enable the ISF modes, tips on calibrating it and how to enable the remote access. This 38 page ISF/Sharp Elite document is packed with technical data.

Tonight we'll be doing the world's first ISF PRO-60X5FD dedicated ISF day and ISF night calibrations.

Enyoy!

-Robert


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## Spiff69

This may be a stupid question, but is it possible to use an RS232 to IR converter for use with an RF remote control system? I thought Xantach use to have one, but I can't find it.


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## Robert Zohn

We don't sell Harmony, but I thought they are strickly IR, no RF.

-Robert


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## Spdntrxi

...


Robert Zohn said:


> Spdntrxi, ^^ Actually you are correct for some of the 2010 models, but the 2011 flagship Pioneer Elite BDP-43 is Pioneer designed all the way. If you think it's a rebagged Sharp tell us which Sharp model it's like?
> 
> Pioneer's new Elite BDP-43 has seperate dedicated power supplies and curcits for audio and the video sections and the full metal armored chassis is very well built.
> 
> More good news on the Elite TV side.... Thanks to Kevin Miller, D-Nice and I just received the complete technical documents on how to enable the ISF modes, tips on calibrating it and how to enable the remote access. This 38 page ISF/Sharp Elite document is packed with technical data.
> 
> Tonight we'll be doing the world's first ISF PRO-60X5FD dedicated ISF day and ISF night calibrations.
> 
> Enyoy!
> 
> -Robert


The 43FD is just a reinforced chassis and a few other nick nacks... kinda like a Denon 4311 vs an A100.. kinda thing.. The 43Fd is a 2010/11 model.. the changes to the 11 model was some HD though composite.. which they had to get rid of.. some copy protection legel stuff...

I'm waiting for the 52FD... I hope that will be pioneer elite through and through. gotta see what chip they are using.. but enough about BD players..


----------



## Robert Zohn

Spdntrxi said:


> ...
> 
> The 43FD is just a reinforced chassis and a few other nick nacks... kinda like a Denon 4311 vs an A100.. kinda thing.. The 43Fd is a 2010/11 model.. the changes to the 11 model was some HD though composite.. which they had to get rid of.. some copy protection legel stuff...
> 
> I'm waiting for the 52FD... I hope that will be pioneer elite through and through. gotta see what chip they are using.. but enough about BD players..


My Pioneer engineering contacts say differently. Pioneer's new BDP-43 does not look or perform like any Sharp BD player whatsoever. 

We are also Denon 100th anniversity authorized dealers and you are correct the A100 is much like the AVR4311, with a few enhancements, like the beefed up power supply and very nice professional speaker binding posts. I also like the look and 5 year warratny, but as you said the A100 is much like the AVR431. 

However, you are incorrect when you said Pioneer's new flaghsip 2011 BD player is last year's model without the component video outputs and is a rebagged Sharp. This is simply not true.

-Robert


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## Spiff69

Oh, mine's not a Harmony, but rather a URC setup with the RF to IR blaster accessory. I can run an IR blaster no problem, but it would look nicer and be more responsive if I could control the set through the 232.


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## Robert Zohn

Spiff69, ^^ I'll find out and let you know.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Hi everyone and sorry for not reporting sooner, this day was in short a complete disaster and it took me the better half of the day to get it straightened out. This day can't come to and end fast enough, I'll be sure to post pictures of my New ELITE when it arrives tomorrow now! I'm going to try and put up a couple snap shots I took today, stay tuned.


----------



## Radtech51

Ok here is a picture of the Box and the contents inside, (very nice) I had no idea it came with this. Inside is also 2 pairs of 3D glasses, they are not in this picture.


----------



## Radtech51

I'll be sure to post lot's of pictures tomorrow when I get it all set up!


----------



## cleveland plasma

Congrads, look like you are the first "official" end user


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## Robert Zohn

Radtech51, very nice! Looking forward to your photos and your impressions on the performance of your new very large screen Elite flat panel. 

kudos to you!

-Robert


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## 141park

Rad....Sounds great. Look forward to your thoughts on this beast!!

Thanks


----------



## Sammie2980

Very nice Rad, congrats. Looking forward to some pics for sure and your impressions. Good to see you posted the items that comes with it as I usually sleep with that stuff by my bed when I first get a new toy like that lol. Good Nightime reading lol

Congrats again. If you could take some menu pics also that would be great.


----------



## dsinger

Robert Zohn said:


> Radtech51, very nice! Looking forward to your photos and your impressions on the performance of your new very large screen Elite flat panel.
> 
> kudos to you!
> 
> -Robert


Robert: Any comments from D-Nice re X5's that you can pass along. Many of us are waiting for his review.


----------



## codeman896

Congrats Rad. I'm pretty impressed by the packaging and just overall classy feel of this TV. Cannot wait for your initial impressions and more pictures. Obviously D-Nice's opinion will be a great resource also, hopefully we hear from him soon. 

Regards
Craig


----------



## Radtech51

Hello everyone, it's been another crazy day today but it looks like I'll finally be setting up my ELITE tonight and I will try and put up some more pictures up for everyone tonight, super excited over here.


----------



## Radtech51

Ok here are some snapshot pictures of my 70" ELITE! Sorry for the wait everyone please enjoy, I'll take more later but it's been a very long weekend for me. OH and for those of you still wondering, YES this ELITE is the Real thing! I was totally blow away with the picture quality and deep blacks! When I have more time I"ll write a review, but for now enjoy some quick snapshots.


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## Radtech51

Blacks completely meld in with the Bezel!


----------



## Radtech51




----------



## Radtech51

Off Axis Pic.









Cable source Pic.


----------



## Sammie2980

Wow very nice. Loving the bolt pic with the electricity, the tron shot on the ship and buzz lightyear landing are impressive. Congrats man, hell of a display. Is that thx or you tweak custom already? Mind posting a pic of some credits on a black screen?

Congrats again


----------



## Radtech51

What you see here is pretty much out if the box since I didn't have much time to play with the settings. I only just set things up last night however I did switch between a few of the picture modes, Movie (THX) and ELITE PURE. I'll put up some more pictures and video very soon.


----------



## aleicgrant

thanks rad. shame the people on avs cant appreciate what you are doing for them


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## mechman

Looking good Rad! :T


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## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> thanks rad. shame the people on avs cant appreciate what you are doing for them


Thanks buddy that means allot, I actually just created an official owners thread over there I hope they appreciate it. Sometimes it is very hard to read the Fourms over there because of all the ranting going on but I know there people like yourself who care so that makes all the difference. :sn:


----------



## 141park

Hi Guys, what would be a good mounting height for the 70 inch? Mine's coming Friday and just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on mounting height for the TV.

Thanks


----------



## JClam

I posted this at another thread where you asked, but just in case you missed it:

The optimum height depends on the distance to your prime viewing position and the height and back angle of the seats as well. 

My 70X5FD should be coming soon as well from VE. I also purchased a Salamander triple that is 24.5" high and a Synchromate stand that will float the tv 9" above the cabinet top to allow the center channel to be on top of the cabinet too. So for my application the center of the tv screen will be ~53" off the ground. I did a mock up and wife tested the setup before ordering.


----------



## dsskid

141park said:


> Hi Guys, what would be a good mounting height for the 70 inch? Mine's coming Friday and just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts on mounting height for the TV.
> 
> Thanks


From your seating position, your eye level should be between 1/3 of the way up from the bottom of the screen, to mid screen, depending on seating distance. The further back you sit the higher you can comfortable mount your display.


----------



## aleicgrant

a post from AVS which I think is pretty honest.

Its no doubt a spectacular set. If you have the means, do it. If you dont, get a 735

I stopped by my local BB and had a look at this TV. First impressions were rather incredible. I would say from my unscientific observation its easily the best LCD TV ever produced. The motion processing was butter smooth. The LED back light was not overly saturated like so many other LED back lit sets. As for contrast ratio it looked incredible with some seriously deep blacks. The display model was playing Pixar's Cars film and I don't think it ever looked better on a TV.

Another thing I noticed was the incredibly tight pixel structure. My BB has a set of home theater seats sitting about 8' back from the display and from that short of distance you could not see the pixels at all. It really felt very comfortable watching this 70" display from this short of distance. The pixel structure did not become noticeable until about the 4' mark and did not get annoying until the 3' mark. If you want IMAX at home this is your display of choice. Right behind it they had the Sharp 70" 735U and this model has a pixel structure that is not as tight and it was more difficult to sit 8' back. Also the whites really bloomed crushing the detail on the 735U whereas the Elite model did not. I had to actually get up and confirm it was the 70" model it looked so good.

In short this impressive for an LCD set. Without a doubt one of the best if not the best LCD set ever produced. Is it a KURO Killer? I have no idea as I have never owned a KURO. Seen a few out there and going from a very bad memory I would say it beats the KURO in detail and processing but I am not so sure on contrast ratio. In a lit room with a picture on the screen the letterbox bands were a very deep black on this Elite unit. However it seems plagued by the same issue a lot of LCD sets have. The blacks were not so black once the room was made darker and the picture itself was dark. This particular Elite unit also had flash lighting in the bottom left and right hand sides. It was not a disaster by any means but it was there. I noticed it did not look so bad when I went further back. So it could be some kind of affect from sitting so close.

Is it worth its price? I suppose yes if you have that kind of money to drop on a TV like this. However for me its way out of reach. I tend to get a bigger kick out of the budget spectrum then the higher end models. Yeah of coarse the higher ends sets are better but at what cost? I would personally not pay anything close to what this set is selling for. Even though it was obvious witch one was better I would likely buy the 735U and put the rest in the bank or take the family to Hawaii. This is just me and its likely those who will buy this set also have plenty of funds to take the family on a nice vacation.

In a nutshell this TV was impressive though even from my unscientific observation!!


----------



## Sammie2980

Thanks for posting that. I went to BBY today also and checked out the display. I spent a lot of time in the menus, and looking at advanced picture options. The display is impressive. I went to mainly check out the menus, and off axis viewing, as well reflection, and haloing. 

It's definitely the real deal thats for sure. I just wish they had more varied content to play on it. I wanted to see some credits so I can see if it had issues with haloing, with white text on black back grounds, but didnt get a chance. The off axis viewing is EXCELLENT, seriously it is pretty ridiculous for an LCD. Reflections are minimal. Way less then my VT30. 

Overall from what I can tell it is a great display, anyone would be lucky to own one, though after seeing it and playing with it some I have yet to decide if I want to go that route and get one. Going back later with my own content and taking a look. Personally I it's a upgrade for sure, how big of an upgrade depends on what you have now. If you have a VT30, D8000, or a 9G/9.5G kuro, I would wait one more year unless you just have to have it.


----------



## Radtech51

Here are some more pictures, all of these were taken while in Movie (THX) picture mode. Also I'd like to add that the camera still does not do any real justice to what I'm actually seeing over here, anyway I hope you all enjoy.


----------



## Radtech51




----------



## Radtech51




----------



## Airgas1998

Sammie2980 said:


> Thanks for posting that. I went to BBY today also and checked out the display. I spent a lot of time in the menus, and looking at advanced picture options. The display is impressive. I went to mainly check out the menus, and off axis viewing, as well reflection, and haloing.
> 
> It's definitely the real deal thats for sure. I just wish they had more varied content to play on it. I wanted to see some credits so I can see if it had issues with haloing, with white text on black back grounds, but didnt get a chance. The off axis viewing is EXCELLENT, seriously it is pretty ridiculous for an LCD. Reflections are minimal. Way less then my VT30.
> 
> Overall from what I can tell it is a great display, anyone would be lucky to own one, though after seeing it and playing with it some I have yet to decide if I want to go that route and get one. Going back later with my own content and taking a look. Personally I it's a upgrade for sure, how big of an upgrade depends on what you have now. If you have a VT30, D8000, or a 9G/9.5G kuro, I would wait one more year unless you just have to have it.


then there must be something wrong with my set. if everybody is commenting on how good the off angle viewing is. i have the 60" maybe there is a difference compared to the 70". anything passed 25degs it washes out quickly.


----------



## cjakutowicz

I had the opportunity to see a 60" Elite in person yesterday afternoon. I was fortunate enough to see the new Elite not only in a light-controlled, retail environment, but also in the same store with VT30s and HX929s. Please understand that these are my observations and my opinion. I am not trying to persuade or change anyones perception or purchase of this new TV.

Picture: There is no denying that the new Elite puts out a wonderful picture. It was set to THX mode. I agree with other people on this forum that this is easily the best looking preset out of the box for any TV I have ever seen. I watched portions of Avatar, Despicable Me, Sherlock Holmes, and Start Trek (2009). The three most impressive things that I noticed were color contrast, black level, and screen uniformity. Contrast was spot on. Colors looked so natural and pure. Black level was also excellent and was some of the best I have ever seen. The most impressive of the three to me was screen uniformity. From top to bottom and corner to corner, it just looked perfect. Now that's not to say that everything is perfect. There was also negatives in regards to the picture. The first was blooming. Others have reported that blooming is almost non-existent on these panels, and to my eyes this is false. In Despicable Me, I saw it in two places: when the girls are walking to the orphanage and when they were in the orphanage near the women's desk. Both times I noticed it, it was almost pink in color. Another time I noticed it was in Sherlock Holmes. In the beginning of the movie, there are very dark scenes. I noticed blooming a few times as well. I compared these same scenes with a HX929, which I mentioned earlier was also located at the store. Blooming was also present at the same scenes on this TV as well. To me, the blooming was a little better on the Elite, but not the point that I would say that Elite is a game changer in this regard. The second was viewing angle. Sitting direct center and about 20 - 25% of left and right of center yielded the best picture. Once you moved past 25% of center, picture quality took a hit, showing almost a pinkish tint. Compared to the HX929, viewing angles were almost similar.

Motion: First, 2D motion handling - I will admit that I have been a plasma guy for the past four years. I have a 50" Kuro which I am looking to replace in the next 4 to 8 months with a 55" or 60" TV. Motion handling is a big issue for me. To me, 2D motion handling on the new Elite was excellent. At times, I thought I was watching a plasma. Everything was very smooth and natural. I could be very content watching 2D on this TV. Compared to the HX929 and a nearby Samsung, the Elite has the best 2D motion handling of any LED TV today. Second, 3D motion handling - When I replace my Kuro, I am also looking for a TV that does 3D with excellent motion handling. At the store I sampled Despicable Me and Avatar in 3D on the Elite, a VT30, and the HX929. After watching these two movies, the VT30 is still the best at 3D by a good margin. In Despicable Me, I sampled the scene where Gru had just stolen the shrink ray and Vector steels it from him. The VT30 handled this chapter perfectly. On the both the Elite and the 929, cross talk was an issue. I noticed it the most when the minion was firing the gun in Gru's jet. He was bouncing up and down very quickly, and both LEDs had problems handling this. I also noticed the same results in Avatar. In my opinion, 3D on a plasma is still better. To some this may not be an issue as 3D will not matter to them. To others looking at 3D for there next TV, this may be an issue.

Aesthetics - There is not denying the aesthetics of this TV are beautiful. Like the Kuros from a few years back, this Elite was made to look sexy and be focal point of a Home Theater or viewing room. To me, it looks much better that the VT30, but would be tied with the HX929 for best looking aesthetic of the year. Say what you will about Sony, but the monolithic design of the 929 is just as nice, if not a little nicer than the Elite.

Price - I purchased my Kuro for $5,500.00. I have no problem spending money on a TV that justifies that price. Does the new 60" Elite justify a $5,499.00 price - No! The last time I checked, you can purchase the 55" HX929 for as little as $2,699.00. Right now, you can purchase a 65" VT30 for around $3,100.00. Back in the days of the Kuro, they were beyond anything available at the time, that I believe the price premium was justified. Today, no. The VT30 and HX929 can go toe to toe with the new Elite, and the $2,000 - $2,500 price premium of the new Elite just doesn't sit well with me. To some, price premium may not be an issue. To others, they may play the waiting game until the price comes down, or wait until CES 2012 to see what may be coming down the pipeline. Ultimately, it is your decision to make.

Conclusion - I will state again, this is my opinion and my conclusion only. I am not trying to persuade or change anyone's mind. The Elite is an excellent evolution, not revolution, in LED televisions. It has improved upon areas such a motion handling and blooming compared to other LEDs. Contrast, black level, and screen uniformity is excellent compared to LED and Plasma television. I would have no problem owning this fine TV, but not at the current price. To me, the sweet spot would be around $4,000.00, and I would have no problem waiting for that. If I was trying to persuade anyone just a little bit, it would be this: go and see one in person if possible before making you purchase. Your eyes and impressions are ultimately your deciding factor.


----------



## sycore

Airgas1998 said:


> then there must be something wrong with my set. if everybody is commenting on how good the off angle viewing is. i have the 60" maybe there is a difference compared to the 70". anything passed 25degs it washes out quickly.


Post your pictures and let us see your setup. Are you saying it washes out 25 degrees from center vertically or horizontally?


----------



## Airgas1998

sycore said:


> Post your pictures and let us see your setup. Are you saying it washes out 25 degrees from center vertically or horizontally?


25 degs is max horizontally, after that it washes out fast. i'm puzzled as to why kevin and robert are commending this set in that regards. unless my panel is defective or the 60"ers are acting differently then the 70"ers.(hard to believe) like i've said before look at a ips panel then you will see true off axis performance. sure wish robert or d-nice would chime in on there recent calibration session on the 60"'s


----------



## Radtech51

^^ I don't see this at all on my 70" my image holds out well up to 45 but you can notice a slight difference just not enough to be an issue, best I've ever seen on an LCD. I think Kevin Miller was right on the money here regarding this.

PS: But there is no mistaking the sweet spot right in the center, but true Videophiles wont be sitting at an angle watching movies anyway. Unless they can't help it is my guess. ;p


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Not that 3D is that important to me, I’ve been looking to buy the 60” Elite (active) or the LG 55LW9800 (passive). This study does make things interesting for me. I’ve seen glasses-free 3D (on a 55”), active 3D and passive 3D. I fully agree with this study. I thought passive had the overall best 3D image. My heart is still set on the Elite. However, it would be silly for me to buy one without seeing the other. Dang it!

Study: http://news.cnet.com/study-finds-pa...02018-1.html?tag=leftColumnArea1.3;riverPost1


Anyone know if the LG 55LW9800 will be in the VE shootout?


----------



## sycore

Airgas1998 said:


> 25 degs is max horizontally, after that it washes out fast. i'm puzzled as to why kevin and robert are commending this set in that regards. unless my panel is defective or the 60"ers are acting differently then the 70"ers.(hard to believe) like i've said before look at a ips panel then you will see true off axis performance. sure wish robert or d-nice would chime in on there recent calibration session on the 60"'s


Maybe it is the way you have it mounted? Where's your pic? You have a $6,000 TV I am sure you have to have a digital camera somewhere.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Airgas1998 said:


> 25 degs is max horizontally, after that it washes out fast. i'm puzzled as to why kevin and robert are commending this set in that regards. unless my panel is defective or the 60"ers are acting differently then the 70"ers.(hard to believe) like i've said before look at a ips panel then you will see true off axis performance. sure wish robert or d-nice would chime in on there recent calibration session on the 60"'s


The viewable color shifts and image degradation greatly depends on how far away you are from the TV and the level of ambient light in the room. Also Blu-ray looses it's black level faster that the brighter more colorful network TV broadcasts do.

Also the 70" has a wider angel of view before it begins to degrade. Unquestionably, the 60" and 70" Elite TV degrades much less that Sony's HX929.

One more thing is the excellent wide off axes viewing we are seeing is when your eyes are level to the center of the screen. All LCD/LED screens degrade much faster when you are even slightly above or below the screen.

Hope this helps.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert 

Ive noticed all your electronics on your signature and I feel its my duty to inform you that you are consuming too much electricity at your house.

As a result, you must part with half your equipment (I will let you choose) and send it to me. That way they do need to build an additional power plant nears Scarsdale to power all that equipment 




Robert Zohn said:


> The viewable color shifts and image degradation greatly depends on how far away you are from the TV and the level of ambient light in the room. Also Blu-ray looses it's black level faster that the brighter more colorful network TV broadcasts do.
> 
> Also the 70" has a wider angel of view before it begins to degrade. Unquestionably, the 60" and 70" Elite TV degrades much less that Sony's HX929.
> 
> One more thing is the excellent wide off axes viewing we are seeing is when your eyes are level to the center of the screen. All LCD/LED screens degrade much faster when you are even slightly above or below the screen.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

I'm investing is solar panels ^^ for my roof. 

I do have a funny story. When we were running hundreds of KRP-500Ms to prep the panels for calibration my home electric bill went up almost 1000%. The DEA raided my home as they were convinced that I had an indoor pot farm. 

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

[No message]


----------



## Robert Zohn

Suzook, did I leave you ^^ speechless? 

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

well the censor kicked in for my response


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> The viewable color shifts and image degradation greatly depends on how far away you are from the TV and the level of ambient light in the room. Also Blu-ray looses it's black level faster that the brighter more colorful network TV broadcasts do.
> 
> Also the 70" has a wider angel of view before it begins to degrade. Unquestionably, the 60" and 70" Elite TV degrades much less that Sony's HX929.
> 
> One more thing is the excellent wide off axes viewing we are seeing is when your eyes are level to the center of the screen. All LCD/LED screens degrade much faster when you are even slightly above or below the screen.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -Robert


So very true my friend this was my observation as well, nicely put.


----------



## Airgas1998

Robert Zohn said:


> I'm investing is solar panels ^^ for my roof.
> 
> I do have a funny story. When we were running hundreds of KRP-500Ms to prep the panels for calibration my home electric bill went up almost 1000%. The DEA raided my home as they were convinced that I had an indoor pot farm.
> 
> -Robert


that is rather funny....


----------



## tomboyter

Robert Zohn said:


> I'm investing is solar panels ^^ for my roof.
> 
> I do have a funny story. When we were running hundreds of KRP-500Ms to prep the panels for calibration my home electric bill went up almost 1000%. The DEA raided my home as they were convinced that I had an indoor pot farm.
> 
> -Robert


THAT is hilarious ! IF you are serious about the solar panels I would love to hear how that project goes....have seriously considered myself here in Georgia, but can't make the numbers work yet.


----------



## dsinger

Robert Zohn said:


> I'm investing is solar panels ^^ for my roof.
> 
> I do have a funny story. When we were running hundreds of KRP-500Ms to prep the panels for calibration my home electric bill went up almost 1000%. The DEA raided my home as they were convinced that I had an indoor pot farm.
> 
> -Robert


Robert: That's hilarious. I am surprised Con-Ed hasn't raised your rates because they had to install a higher voltage transformer. Please check your emails.:clap:


----------



## Radtech51

Sharp Elite PRO-X5FD 3D LED LCD (Home Theater)

"The demo was conducted in a totally blacked out room, and the result was absolutely stunning. Blacks were easily as deep as the Kuro—and possibly deeper, even when displaying real-world images—and it clearly blows the Kuro out of the water in terms of brightness thanks to IVC's ability to punch up bright objects without raising blacks, which is especially good news for 3D. "


----------



## codeman896

Broken link RadTech. Seems like an interesting read though. I'm one of the many eager to hear your reports concerning gaming and 3D modes on this set. Congrats again - looking forward to more pics if you have some free time


----------



## Radtech51

codeman896 said:


> Broken link RadTech. Seems like an interesting read though. I'm one of the many eager to hear your reports concerning gaming and 3D modes on this set. Congrats again - looking forward to more pics if you have some free time


I'll put more up buddy just need to find the time. ;p


----------



## mechman

Link fixed.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Here's a new CEDIA video. There's an Elite in the Pioneer booth. There's a few straight on and off angle shots of the Elite in action. They don't mention the TV in the video. However, you can see the model number next to the TV.


----------



## davidjschenk

Hi, Hutchinshouse,

And that is a locally dimmed Sharp Elite, not an old Pioneer Elite plasma, right? I just want to confirm that to avoid confusion.

Yours,

David


----------



## Hutchinshouse

davidjschenk said:


> Hi, Hutchinshouse,
> 
> And that is a locally dimmed Sharp Elite, not an old Pioneer Elite plasma, right? I just want to confirm that to avoid confusion.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Correct, if you pause the video, you can see the model number on the wall next to the TV. You can also see the word Sharp.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Here's another CEDIA Elite video posted just yesterday:
http://youtu.be/gqXsVl9IHEs


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thanks Hutchinshouse for the Home Theater Forum videos. Very interesting content.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Happy Friday everyone, I didn't get a chance to take any new pictures from last's viewing of "The Dark Knight", (very sorry). However here are a few more screen shots to look from a couple nights ago, I will get a chance to take some more this weekend so hang in there. I must say watching the movie "The Dark Knight" last night on my ELITE was like watching the movie for the first time. I'm still mesmerized when I think about the experience, those Deep Inky blacks just make all the difference it's really jaw dropping to behold each time I turn on my ELITE. This TV realy is a beast, and I couldn't be any happier. 









Movie (THX) Picture mode. 








Movie (THX) Picture mode. 








Movie (THX) Picture mode.


----------



## JimP

Robert Zohn said:


> The viewable color shifts and image degradation greatly depends on how far away you are from the TV and the level of ambient light in the room. Also Blu-ray looses it's black level faster that the brighter more colorful network TV broadcasts do.
> 
> Also the 70" has a wider angel of view before it begins to degrade. Unquestionably, the 60" and 70" Elite TV degrades much less that Sony's HX929.
> 
> One more thing is the excellent wide off axes viewing we are seeing is when your eyes are level to the center of the screen. All LCD/LED screens degrade much faster when you are even slightly above or below the screen.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -Robert


Interesting Robert,

Please tell us more about the viewing angle being affected by ambient light and viewing distance. Say you're 13' from the 70" for example. What I'm looking for is if I go from sitting up and then stretching out horizontally on the sofa (quit laughing, you all do it too), what happens to the picture??? My other concern is if you're having a group over to watch a football game or movie night with some seated while others may be standing, what will they see.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Radtech51 said:


> Happy Friday everyone, I didn't get a chance to take any new pictures from last's viewing of "The Dark Knight", (very sorry). However here are a few more screen shots to look from a couple nights ago, I will get a chance to take some more this weekend so hang in there. I must say watching the movie "The Dark Knight" last night on my ELITE was like watching the movie for the first time. I'm still mesmerized when I think about the experience, those Deep Inky blacks just make all the difference it's really jaw dropping to behold each time I turn on my ELITE. This TV realy is a beast, and I couldn't be any happier.


My 4 year old Sony 52XBR4 doesn’t know the definition of black level. I watched Taken (Leim Nelson) last night on blu-ray. The darker scenes were really hard to watch. The dark grays made me want to barf. The Elite is still my frontrunner.


----------



## Radtech51

Hutchinshouse said:


> My 4 year old Sony 52XBR4 doesn’t know the definition of black level. I watched Taken (Leim Nelson) last night on blu-ray. The darker scenes were really hard to watch. The dark grays made me want to barf. The Elite is still my frontrunner.


When is your delivery date buddy? :sn:


----------



## Robert Zohn

JimP said:


> Interesting Robert,
> 
> Please tell us more about the viewing angle being affected by ambient light and viewing distance. Say you're 13' from the 70" for example. What I'm looking for is if I go from sitting up and then stretching out horizontally on the sofa (quit laughing, you all do it too), what happens to the picture??? My other concern is if you're having a group over to watch a football game or movie night with some seated while others may be standing, what will they see.


The 70" performs better off axes and at 13' you can be up to 40 degrees off angle. The up/down off axes viewing is not as wide as left/right.

Football games will stand up better to off axes viewing then for example Dark Night.

-Robert


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Radtech51 said:


> When is your delivery date buddy? :sn:


With any luck, I’ll be pulling the trigger within a month. :T


----------



## HYMER DAXTER

Hi everyone.I'm French and I am passionate about video for years!I separated from a panasonic 65VT20 due to floating black.I plan to take the lcd Sony 65HX920.Unfortunately, there has been no announcement of Sharp regarding a possible out of the X5 range in Europe.I noticed the text in French on the packaging of elites like : "deux paires de lunettes 3D incluses".In your opinion, is this a clue to a future French release?I hope not to have bothered you by asking you the questions!thanks!A frustrated French:sad:


----------



## Hutchinshouse

OK, I spent 45 minutes with the Elite again. This time at a different store (Best Buy). This time with the 70” bad boy. Confirmed TV was in THX mode and motion enhancement was set to off. The room had low lighting. Movie playing was Avatar (blu-ray). As stated, this is my 2nd go-around spending time with the Elite. Everything is flawless on this TV other than motion. I didn’t see blooming at all. When the scene flipped to an outer space shot, it was as if the ship was painted on the TV’s screen. The ship was razor sharp along its edges. Zero blooming! As for black levels, ! During the outer space shot, it had the best contrast ratio I have ever seen. I thought I was going to get sucked into the void of space. It was literally that real looking. I was floored! I now have an idea what type of black levels the NASA astronauts get to experience. It was that good. No joke. Now for the motion. It just wasn’t as smooth as I hoped it would be. During some of the pans it was a little rough on the eyes. It just didn’t flow silky smooth. However, I’m far from an expert. As far as I know, motion could have been corrected via the TV or blu-ray player’s menu. Speaking of blu-ray players. The player hooked to the Elite was a tad “entry level”. I never checked to see if the output was set to 1080/24p. I would really like to see this TV in action with my Oppo blu-ray player! I bet it would only get better. As for glare, there was a little. However, the TV’s brightness had no problem cutting through the glare. Glare not an issue as far as I’m concerned.

Right next to the Elite was the VT30. The Elite had better contrast ratio and blacks. It was very obvious. Both TVs were playing Avatar by the way. Color accuracy was too close to call. I’ll call that even. As for smoothness, the VT30 was better. I never checked which player was hooked to the VT30. Sorry! On a side note, the VT30 had a nasty issue. You could clearly see image retention. Looks like BB left the disc menu on too long. Anyhow, from my perspective, the Elite is worth the hype it’s receiving.


----------



## Radtech51

Hutchinshouse said:


> OK, I spent 45 minutes with the Elite again. This time at a different store (Best Buy). This time with the 70” bad boy. Confirmed TV was in THX mode and motion enhancement was set to off. The room had low lighting. Movie playing was Avatar (blu-ray). As stated, this is my 2nd go-around spending time with the Elite. Everything is flawless on this TV other than motion. I didn’t see blooming at all. When the scene flipped to an outer space shot, it was as if the ship was painted on the TV’s screen. The ship was razor sharp along its edges. Zero blooming! As for black levels, ! During the outer space shot, it had the best contrast ratio I have ever seen. I thought I was going to get sucked into the void of space. It was literally that real looking. I was floored! I now have an idea what type of black levels the NASA astronauts get to experience. It was that good. No joke. Now for the motion. It just wasn’t as smooth as I hoped it would be. During some of the pans it was a little rough on the eyes. It just didn’t flow silky smooth. However, I’m far from an expert. As far as I know, motion could have been corrected via the TV or blu-ray player’s menu. Speaking of blu-ray players. The player hooked to the Elite was a tad “entry level”. I never checked to see if the output was set to 1080/24p. I would really like to see this TV in action with my Oppo blu-ray player! I bet it would only get better. As for glare, there was a little. However, the TV’s brightness had no problem cutting through the glare. Glare not an issue as far as I’m concerned.
> 
> Right next to the Elite was the VT30. The Elite had better contrast ratio and blacks. It was very obvious. Both TVs were playing Avatar by the way. Color accuracy was too close to call. I’ll call that even. As for smoothness, the VT30 was better. I never checked which player was hooked to the VT30. Sorry! On a side note, the VT30 had a nasty issue. You could clearly see image retention. Looks like BB left the disc menu on too long. Anyhow, from my perspective, the Elite is worth the hype it’s receiving.


Hi buddy, try changing the motion to ether > Advanced Low or Advanced Hi. I find both work great and nether cause any noticable soap-opera effect whatsoever. Let me know what you think. :sn:


----------



## Airgas1998

that would be film mode adv high/low.....motion enhancement: fluid motion 120hz high/low

i actually feel the soe is not to terrible on this set, and that is saying alot coming from me. usually i hate frame interpolation....


----------



## Radtech51

Airgas1998 said:


> that would be film mode adv high/low.....motion enhancement: fluid motion 120hz high/low
> 
> i actually feel the soe is not to terrible on this set, and that is saying alot coming from me. usually i hate frame interpolation....


I agree, for the short time I tried Fluid Motion I was thinking the same thing. However it's great for documentaries they look soe anyway. ;p


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Radtech51 said:


> Hi buddy, try changing the motion to ether > Advanced Low or Advanced Hi. I find both work great and nether cause any noticable soap-opera effect whatsoever. Let me know what you think. :sn:


OK, I’ll give that a shot next time I see the TV.


----------



## HONOR

Will post more pics later… took these quick ones for now


----------



## 141park

Hi Honor, 

How high is the floor to the bottom of the bezel? Do you like the height where it is right now or do you plan to mount the TV to the wall? How far are you sitting from the TV?

Mine comes tomorrow and was just hoping to see at what height others are placing the TV at.

Thanks


----------



## HONOR

I'm not home to measure... I will when I get home. If I had to guess I would say 3ft. I have the elite(70) in a bedroom one a BDI table. In a week or so Im going to move the display to its final place.


----------



## Spiff69

141park said:


> Hi Honor,
> 
> How high is the floor to the bottom of the bezel? Do you like the height where it is right now or do you plan to mount the TV to the wall? How far are you sitting from the TV?
> 
> Mine comes tomorrow and was just hoping to see at what height others are placing the TV at.
> 
> Thanks


You really need to base your decision on what gets your eye level closes to the middle of the screen height wise. This is not a preference thing, this is a standard that we should all try to shoot for or risk exacerbating the issues a given set has.


----------



## Radtech51

HONOR said:


> Will post more pics later… took these quick ones for now


Grats buddy! Enjoy that beast, and welcome to the ELITE club! :sn:


----------



## HYMER DAXTER

Hi everyone.First of all,I wish to clarify that I am French.So for now, I have no information on possible release of the X5 range in Europe.I'd like your opinion on one point.Why do you think about packing the elites, there is text in French?(like : "Deux paires de lunettes 3D incluses" or "écran à cristaux liquides" Is this a clue to a future European release?I'm sorry to insist but I think that you can easily understand our frustration!Thank you all!


----------



## aleicgrant

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/televisions/flat-panels/pioneer-elite-pro-x5fd-plasma


----------



## davidjschenk

HYMER DAXTER said:


> Hi everyone.First of all,I wish to clarify that I am French.So for now, I have no information on possible release of the X5 range in Europe.I'd like your opinion on one point.Why do you think about packing the elites, there is text in French?(like : "Deux paires de lunettes 3D incluses" or "écran à cristaux liquides" Is this a clue to a future European release?I'm sorry to insist but I think that you can easily understand our frustration!Thank you all!


HYMER DAXTER, you absolutely have my sympathy in this. It is particularly strange and perhaps even suggestive that they would have a French version of the owner's manual and yet not make it possible for there to be any French owners; I do not see where that arrangement makes much sense. Perhaps they're thinking of French-speaking Canada??--I don't know. When I next see Robert at the shootout, I'll harass both him and the Sharp representative as best I can to see whether or not the X5s will reach France. Please remind me of this promise I just made as we approach next weekend (that's when the shootout is).

Yours,

David


----------



## HONOR

http://vimeo.com/28888068

Elite and VT30 (Elite first)
I know this is not too accurate! 
Let’s see what happens at the shootout!


----------



## aleicgrant

hmmmmm well thats a tough one. The VT30 at least in the video looked a hair better...... ugh


----------



## HYMER DAXTER

davidjschenk said:


> HYMER DAXTER, you absolutely have my sympathy in this. It is particularly strange and perhaps even suggestive that they would have a French version of the owner's manual and yet not make it possible for there to be any French owners; I do not see where that arrangement makes much sense. Perhaps they're thinking of French-speaking Canada??--I don't know. When I next see Robert at the shootout, I'll harass both him and the Sharp representative as best I can to see whether or not the X5s will reach France. Please remind me of this promise I just made as we approach next weekend (that's when the shootout is).
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Thank you very much!


----------



## sycore

HONOR said:


> Elite and VT30 (Elite first)
> I know this is not too accurate!
> Let’s see what happens at the shootout!


It was hard to tell much difference, with the constant strobing of the elite's full array. What mode was it in as the pic seem blown out in torch. Like at 1:27 when the motorcycle cop pulls a u-turn the screen on the 70x5 goes almost all white (displaying excellent uniformity I might add), but on the VT30 you can still see some of the blue sky.


----------



## BluDroid

Can't wait for the shootout results. Hopefully, then a decision will be easier...


----------



## 141park

Hi, has anyone attempted to calibrate the 70 inch? What picture mode is everyone using right now for sports and movies? 

Thanks


----------



## HONOR

Well 2 things:
The VT30 has been calibrated by DeWayne (Dnice)
The VT30 video for some reason looks better… this is off a cheap iPhone 4 camera lol so don’t take it seriously!

I love both displays… the Elite offers the blacks I have been looking for and just has an overall WOW factor that is matched by no other displays this year. Maybe the VX300 will be on the same level. Overall I am happy Pioneer and Sharp made this awesome display… hopefully Panasonic will get the motivation to release an Elite like display in 2012.


----------



## HONOR

sycore said:


> It was hard to tell much difference, with the constant strobing of the elite's full array. What mode was it in as the pic seem blown out in torch. Like at 1:27 when the motorcycle cop pulls a u-turn the screen on the 70x5 goes almost all white (displaying excellent uniformity I might add), but on the VT30 you can still see some of the blue sky.


Movie THX mode... iPhone 4 camera just can’t handle the content properly. The Elite produces a brighter picture then the VT30 in ISF night. It’s stupid to use the iPhone but it’s just so convenient lol


----------



## HONOR

Video is better in standard screen size & 720p


----------



## aleicgrant

do we know if D-nice has calibrated any of the sets sold be VE yet. I would have thought there would be some comments by him at this point


----------



## Radtech51

Took some more screen shots this weekend, please enjoy.

(THX) picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.








(THX) picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.








(THX) picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

(THX) picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.








(THX) picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

(THX) picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.








(THX) picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

ELITE PURE picture mode.








CABLE SOURCE ELITE PURE picture mode.


----------



## mechman

THX looks better imo.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

mechman said:


> THX looks better imo.


+1


----------



## lynskyn

Hi, I'm a newbie here - just joined. I have had a Pro-70X5FD for a little over a week now and am very pleased with the picture. This set replaced a 10 year old Pioneer Elite Pro-710HD (which still works great - wish I had a place to put it).
Anyway, I can't figure out how to switch to a specific input directly without going through the menu. I would think there would be a way to use a key sequence that would do this. Something like Input, 0,0 for TV, Input 0,1 for HDMI1, and so on. The reason I need this is so I can program macros on my universal remote. 
I opened a case through the Elite tech support but no solution yet. I will post if and when a solution is given.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Ed Johnson, ISF Level 2 professional calibrator is working on our store demo 60" Elite and he says this TV calibrates extremely well. To use Ed's exact words "Phenomenal" 

Ed is just finishing the ISF Night mode and the gamma is perfectly flat at all all IREs, grey scale and CMS are spot on the money. This is an outstanding display, that gets even better after a proper calibration.

The only issue we see is that when the calibrator is in the ISF calibration mode you can only calibrate with the local dimming off, then when you complete the calibration you can enable the local dimming, but the gamma is not flat. With a target gamma of 2.2 and local dimming on the Low end from 0 IRE to 60 IRE stays flat but from 60 to 100 IRE the gamma bumps up to 1.9 and stays flat. With local dimming off the gamma stays flat at the target 2.2 gamma. 

With local dimming off the MLL is .0080 and with local dimming on the best Klein meeter can not read any light whatsoever, so the meter reads .0000. So we want to have the local dimming on.

Oddly enough, the image quality with all content looks absolutely stunning in ISF Night, you would not know the gamma was not flat. 

At this point I wanted to give everyone a preliminary brief report from the few hours we worked on our first PRO-60X5FD. We'll do more work on Ed's next visit, which is scheduled for this Thursday afternoon and then again all day Friday.

I am very well connected with the Japanese senior engineer, the Elite VP and senior product manager and I will be writing a full report once we do more work on this. 

We feel with time and maybe some support from engineering we can get this corrected. And we will not give up till we get this TV as perfect as possible.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert, Awesome, simply awesome. One question, on another forum there was mention of a firmware release impending already. any idea what this is?


----------



## Robert Zohn

I'm in communications with the right folks and this has come up. I should have more information shortly.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

Thanks Robert, as always its appreciated


----------



## dsskid

Robert, I thought you were selling the PRO-141FD.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi dsskid, yes I am, but not immediately as I want to use it at the shoot-out as a reference to all other panels in our shoot-out.

Now that the shoot-out is rescheduled to 10/8 - 10/9 I hope you can attend.

-Robert


----------



## JClam

lynskyn said:


> Hi, I'm a newbie here - just joined. I have had a Pro-70X5FD for a little over a week now and am very pleased with the picture. This set replaced a 10 year old Pioneer Elite Pro-710HD (which still works great - wish I had a place to put it).
> Anyway, I can't figure out how to switch to a specific input directly without going through the menu. I would think there would be a way to use a key sequence that would do this. Something like Input, 0,0 for TV, Input 0,1 for HDMI1, and so on. The reason I need this is so I can program macros on my universal remote.
> I opened a case through the Elite tech support but no solution yet. I will post if and when a solution is given.


Hey Lynskyn, I thought I was the only one who couldn't let go of the Pro-710HD...mine still works great too but it goes to the first person with a big enough truck to haul it away on Friday when my 70X5FD arrives.

Regarding your question on input selection, I'm not sure you can do it over IR but if you look at pages 68 of your TV manual there are directions for controlling the tv via IP and RS232. Then on page 69 you can see the command table. In the 3rd section down it shows Input Selection and the commands/parameters to select a specific input without toggling through the menu.

Hope that helps.
Jim


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> Hi dsskid, yes I am, but not immediately as I want to use it at the shoot-out as a reference to all other panels in our shoot-out.
> 
> Now that the shoot-out is rescheduled to 10/8 - 10/9 I hope you can attend.
> 
> -Robert


Ok. Yes, hopefully the situation will change and I will be able to. 
Thanks,


----------



## lynskyn

Thanks Jim. I believe there are discrete codes that will allow it to be done via IR. I am waiting to hear back from Elite support.


----------



## Radtech51

Additional screen shots of the menu system.


























































































Intelligent Variable Contrast images from demo mode.

























Purity Test








Viewing Angle Test


----------



## dsskid

Thanks for posting the shots Rad, but unless it's your camera, I like the Intelligent Variable Contrast set to off.


----------



## dsinger

Robert Zohn said:


> Ed Johnson, ISF Level 2 professional calibrator is working on our store demo 60" Elite and he says this TV calibrates extremely well. To use Ed's exact words "Phenomenal"
> 
> Ed is just finishing the ISF Night mode and the gamma is perfectly flat at all all IREs, grey scale and CMS are spot on the money. This is an outstanding display, that gets even better after a proper calibration.
> 
> The only issue we see is that when the calibrator is in the ISF calibration mode you can only calibrate with the local dimming off, then when you complete the calibration you can enable the local dimming, but the gamma is not flat. With a target gamma of 2.2 and local dimming on the Low end from 0 IRE to 60 IRE stays flat but from 60 to 100 IRE the gamma bumps up to 1.9 and stays flat. With local dimming off the gamma stays flat at the target 2.2 gamma.
> 
> With local dimming off the MLL is .0080 and with local dimming on the best Klein meeter can not read any light whatsoever, so the meter reads .0000. So we want to have the local dimming on.
> 
> Oddly enough, the image quality with all content looks absolutely stunning in ISF Night, you would not know the gamma was not flat.
> 
> At this point I wanted to give everyone a preliminary brief report form the few hours we worked on our first PRO-60X5FD. We'll do more work on Ed's next visit, which is scheduled for this Thursday afternoon and then again all day Friday.
> 
> I am very well connected with the Japanese senior engineer, the Elite VP and senior product manager and I will be writing a full report once we do more work on this.
> 
> We feel with time and maybe some support from engineering we can get this corrected. And we will not give up till we get this TV as perfect as possible.
> 
> -Robert


Robert: Thanks for the info. A couple of questions or comments. Am I safe in assuming that if I were to calibrate THX and Pure that I could do so with local dimming on and avoid the "split" gamma issue? Secondly the local dimming off black level (.008) appears to be excellent performance. Chad B measured the 732 at .0184. Given that the sets have the same panel, how did Sharp/Pioneer get the improved performance? 
Thanks again. Mules and wagon supposed to arrive tomorrow.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Yes the gamma issue is only in the ISF modes. But, the ISF modes seem to calibrate better (other than the gamma/local dimming issue) than THX Movie or the Elite Pure modes. 

One reason for the different MLL readings is the likely because of the different meters. Ed has a calibrated Klein, which is a contact meter that goes down to .0000fl. I believe Chad uses a reflected meter that goes down to .000

Also these panels do perform much differently due to the internal circuits.

-Robert


----------



## JClam

lynskyn said:


> Thanks Jim. I believe there are discrete codes that will allow it to be done via IR. I am waiting to hear back from Elite support.


I plan to use IP to control my X5 but if you do get a copy of the discrete codes, please share...would love to have IR backup ready to go.


----------



## lynskyn

JClam said:


> I plan to use IP to control my X5 but if you do get a copy of the discrete codes, please share...would love to have IR backup ready to go.


Will do.


----------



## tomboyter

dsskid said:


> Thanks for posting the shots Rad, but unless it's your camera, I like the Intelligent Variable Contrast set to off.


I am in agreement...bright areas are overdriven IMHO.


----------



## gimp

Saw my first PRO-70X5FD at BB/Magnolia the other day. Very impressive in a darkened room. Best viewing angle I've seen on an LCD.


----------



## gimp

What happens to black levels when local dimming is turned off?


----------



## davidjschenk

dsskid said:


> Thanks for posting the shots Rad, but unless it's your camera, I like the Intelligent Variable Contrast set to off.





tomboyter said:


> I am in agreement...bright areas are overdriven IMHO.


Hi dsskid, hi tomboyter,

Unless I'm suffering another of my notorious "memory failures," some use of IVC is necessary for the optimal picture quality, as that's where the local dimming function is enabled. Now, it may well be that RadTecn51's use of IVC in those photos involves more than just normal local dimming--I don't know. But local dimming is an absolute must for getting the best picture available from these Elites.

I do agree that the pictures you've cited with IVC on seem to have a fair bit of clipping in both the dark and bright ranges, but I assure you that doesn't have to happen when the local dimming is on; I never saw any clipping when I used it on Robert's 70-incher.



gimp said:


> What happens to black levels when local dimming is turned off?


Hi gimp,

"Bad things." Specifically, they rise substantially.

Yours,

David


----------



## davidjschenk

Robert Zohn said:


> Yes the gamma issue is only in the ISF modes. But, the ISF modes seem to calibrate better (other than the gamma/local dimming issue) than THX Movie or the Elite Pure modes.
> 
> One reason for the different MLL readings is the likely because of the different meters. Ed has a calibrated Klein, which is a contact meter that goes down to .0000fl. I believe Chad uses a reflected meter that goes down to .000
> 
> Also these panels do perform much differently due to the internal circuits.
> 
> -Robert


Hi Robert,

Hmm. That certainly sounds like something that cries out for a firmware fix. I assume they plan to issue one?

Yours,

David


----------



## Robert Zohn

David, ^^ I would agree and I have discussed this with engineering, product management and Elite brand management.

-Robert


----------



## dsskid

davidjschenk said:


> Hi dsskid, hi tomboyter,
> 
> Unless I'm suffering another of my notorious "memory failures," some use of IVC is necessary for the optimal picture quality, as that's where the local dimming function is enabled. Now, it may well be that RadTecn51's use of IVC in those photos involves more than just normal local dimming--I don't know. But local dimming is an absolute must for getting the best picture available from these Elites.
> 
> I do agree that the pictures you've cited with IVC on seem to have a fair bit of clipping in both the dark and bright ranges, but I assure you that doesn't have to happen when the local dimming is on; I never saw any clipping when I used it on Robert's 70-incher.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Hi David, good to see you still active, I know schools got you busy. I know pictures often don't represent what the eyes see, one of the reasons I need to see it in person.

John


----------



## 141park

Robert Zohn said:


> David, ^^ I would agree and I have discussed this with engineering, product management and Elite brand management.
> 
> -Robert


Hi, Is it worth calibrating the TV NOW or wait till there is a fix for the gamma issue in the ISF Modes? Thank you


----------



## gimp

So it is something that can be improved through calibration?



davidjschenk said:


> I do agree that the pictures you've cited with IVC on seem to have a fair bit of clipping in both the dark and bright ranges, but I assure you that doesn't have to happen when the local dimming is on; I never saw any clipping when I used it on Robert's 70-incher.


----------



## davidjschenk

141park said:


> Hi, Is it worth calibrating the TV NOW or wait till there is a fix for the gamma issue in the ISF Modes? Thank you


Hi, 141park,

I'm no Robert, but IMO it'd be better to wait for the fix before getting a professional calibration. Otherwise you'd almost certainly have to pay a second time for a re-calibration, whereas by waiting you'd only have to pay once.



gimp said:


> So it is something that can be improved through calibration?


Hi, gimp,

Absolutely. There is no need for local dimming to produce any clipping whatsoever.

Yours,

David


----------



## Radtech51

Hi everyone, sorry it's taking me so long to write up my review it's just there is never enough time lol. Anyway here are some more pictures of the day enjoy.

THX picture mode.








THX picture mode.








THX picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.









THX picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.








THX picture mode.








ELITE PURE picture mode.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Beautiful photography and the pictures show off the exceptional black level of the Elite TV.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## donnymac

Robert Zohn said:


> David, ^^ I would agree and I have discussed this with engineering, product management and Elite brand management.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the heads-up Robert. I guess I will put my scheduled calibration on hold until this is resolved. Keep us informed.


----------



## trcnet

Hello all :sn:

Robert, have you noticed any difference in picture quality between the 60"/70" Elite X5? I know sometimes a bigger display can seem a little less sharp then a smaller one of the same model.

Thank you in advance.

best,
Tom


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi Tom, 

Welcome to HTS! 

I have the 60" and 70" in my store, but due to the video distribution system and location of the two TVs I can't get the same content o the TVs to compare them. We're getting another HDMI cable form the distribution switch to the 70" so we can answer your question accurately.

-Robert


----------



## trcnet

Hi Robert,

Thank you for the warm welcome and very quick reply. I'll look forward to hearing from you on this when and if you have a chance.

best,
Tom


----------



## mechman

dsskid said:


> Thanks for posting the shots Rad, but unless it's your camera, I like the Intelligent Variable Contrast set to off.


I'd agree. :T

Edit: After seeing David's post I'd have to assume there's more to it than what I'm seeing in the pictures. :scratch: Yet another classic example of how a picture can rarely portray what can be seen by eye.


----------



## davidjschenk

Hi everyone,

Yeah, the white clipping we see in the pictures for the IVC demo is obvious and extreme, but I guess I'm inclined just to chalk that up to the way manufacturers make those "demos" so exaggerated and garish. On my Samsung B8500 the demo mode to show off its local dimming does the same thing: along with local dimming it throws in dynamic contrast, that awful Black Tone feature, oversaturated colors, and all sorts of other picture-fidelity nightmares. My assumption has been that Sharp is doing something similar here.

Yours,

David


----------



## Radtech51

Sorry it took me so long to write up this review but it has been a very busy two weeks for me and I've been spending all my time with my new ELITE PRO-70X5FD. Anyway here it is, please sit back grab some Coffie and enjoy. I have also included some additional screen shots below for everyone's enjoyment. 

My first impression out of the box: This is hands down the most beautiful display I've ever seen, it's got Pioneer written all over it inside and out. In fact one may not even guess Sharp had anything to do with it other then the branding on it's back. 
When first I turned on the ELITE I was brought to an Att U-Verse picture via my HDMI 1080i source. My Att U-Verse was playing Avatar at that time and when the picture came on the screen, my jaw dropped. The picture looked fantastic, in fact it looked way better then it had ever looked before. It defiantly made the shock and wow factor for me. I was not expecting a cable picture to look so good, and it was definitely an unexpected added bonus. Later that evening when I put on my first Blu-ray movie I was again taken away with the deep blacks and rich color of the ELITE, it was simply put the best picture I've ever seen. Every time I put in a new movie to view it was like watching it all over for the first time, the ELITE is that good. It's brought me nothing but complete satisfaction. 

I can't emphasize enough how pleased I am with the ELITE, the picture quality is simply stunning, I encourage anyone to see it for themselves in person because no words will suffice. Oh and upon an up close inspection of the ELITE reveals no humming or buzzing sounds, in fact it's very quiet. However the ELITE is not without it's faults and we all know nothing is ever perfect. The internal speakers are really lacking, the base is simply not there. Also the off-axis viewing while greatly improved is still not perfect, more on this bellow. 
I found the menu system very easy to use, and rather user friendly you don't have to be a TV savvy person to use it. I thought the power LED light was well placed on the bottom left side of the bezel out of the way and it's size and color (blue) is non intrusive during movie viewing. You can always turn it off through the menu interface if you wish, it's a rather nice feature. 

For movie viewing your obviously going to want to use the Movie (THX) picture mode right out of the box, it looks fantastic and it's obvious the most accurate. ELITE PURE is your torch mode but it's very good at producing very beautiful vivid color allowing the image to really stand out. The effect is very life like and impressive, however it also delivers a noticeable increase in contrast killing some of your shadow detail. Additionally It adds an over all blueish tint to your image, however I'm very sure all of this can be calibrated out to perfection. The ELITE PURE picture mode could be great fun to use in showrooms and in extremely bright lit rooms with nature scenes etc, (see yellow flower picture I posted earlier), looks shockingly real. 

Deep inky blacks with pure bright whites is the ELITES speciality. I have never seen a picture look so pure, clean and bright as the ELITE. This TV can get very bright and very dark let me tell you. It's really rich in every sense of the word, and the ELITE does not disappoint in this regard. 
Putting up a solid color screen clearly shows off the ELITE's uniformity and purity it's very apparent. I was not able to find any signs of common artifacts plaguing other LCD displays. No vertical or horizontal banding, no clouding or flash lighting and no dead pixels. It demonstrated excellent off-axis viewing perhaps noticeably better then the 929. And from what I can tell all images hold out very nice up to about 45 degrees but then slightly wash out the further you go. So on this note you will still be claiming dibs on that sweet spot (center) seat. However I want to emphasize to everyone that the off-axis viewing on the ELITE is still the best in class, and I do consider this to be an issue. If your really are curious about this go check one out in person because us Videophiles tend to see things others do not. The picture still holds out very nicely at any angle for most and I was very impressed on how much improvement has been made in this department. Speaking of improvement, Blooming on the ELITE has been greatly reduced to the point where it's almost non existent, very nice indeed. 

Watching movies: During live motion video with fast panning scenes things looked really great. The ELITE handled everything I threw at it and more very nicely, I was very impressed. It obviously has the best motion I've seen on an LCD TV although the 929 did come in close behind from what I could remember. Additionally I could find no signs of DSE during fast panning scenes on white backgrounds, I was extremely impressed with the purity of the screen and the way it handled everything it just looked great. 

Continuing on with my observations refreshingly I could find no signs of flicker like I could with my VT30 when it was placed in 96Hz mode. I did see some minimal blooming but it was mostly during end credits no big surprise there. Back to motion for a moment, It's easily the best in class but was not as good as my VT30 Plasma, however it's definitely close enough for those concerned you have to look very hard to notice. As for glare it might be a problem if your in a very bight lit room with lot's of lights directly behind you. However the glare issue has been blown way out of proportion, and I recommend for everyone to invest in some blinds for the there windows if they suspect it might be a problem. The reflections or glare appear to be about the same as the 929 from what I can recall. 

Conclusion: I would highly recommend the ELITE to anyone it has an undoubtably reference picture quality and will no doubt go down in the books as a reference model. Sharp with Pioneer's collaboration has proven to be the best decision they could have made. I think the ELITE is worth every penny I spent on it and I couldn't be more happy. 

I hope you enjoyed reading my review, I only wish you could see the real thing instead of these pictures. 

All pictures were taken while in (THX) picture mode.

























































All pictures were taken while in (THX) picture mode.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

My 70" was just delivered.. I'm at work though when it came.. Can't wait to try it out when I get home!


----------



## dsskid

Congrats! Enjoy.


----------



## JimP

On an almost completely unrelated topic....

Double check your HDMI cables. I've always thought that the color on my Tivo S3 looked better than my Dish 722VIP. Dish looked slightly oversaturated in a strage way. Both are connected to my display with seperate HDMI cables. Pulled out the 6' HDMI cable that came with the Oppo 95 and swapped it in for the Dish 722 cable. That made an improvement.

So you guys who are springing $8K for a display might want to double check your cables.


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> My 70" was just delivered.. I'm at work though when it came.. Can't wait to try it out when I get home!


Grats buddy! :sn:


----------



## gimp

harmony one remote users: it has been reported you can use the krp 500m as your tv while waiting for them to add the X5FD.


----------



## cleveland plasma

Radtech51, you are a busy guy posting in 3 forums......


----------



## Airgas1998

i know some of you follow us on the other forums, but we are getting some bad sets (60"). hopefully, my replacement will resolve the issue i have. so far the qc and the "elite customer care" has been down right pathetic.


----------



## Glenee

There are some members on this and other forums, that seem to be getting nothing more than LIP Service from the Elite Concierge Service. When I was talking to One of the Dealers about this TV we discussed the Price. I was told that Sharp said it was not aiming at the General Consumer for this Set. It was being marketed to Audiophiles and people with ample means to Purchase a $8000.00 Dollar Tv. The level of Service through the Elite Concierge service would be State of the Art and second to none, just like the TV. Well Sharp it looks like you found you target Audience. now what about your end of the deal. Where is your Elite service for these Customers that are having difficulty with their Purchase's. They stepped up to the plate and paid for your Super Set and SERVICE. Know it's time to do your Part. Get off the sidelines and get in to the game Quickly or this is a sinking ship.
Just my Opinion,
Glen


----------



## Airgas1998

^^^
well said, i feel the same way. the support dept. wants everything video taped and sent in for review and verification. when i told them that capturing an image and that the problem associated with what i was having was going to be very difficult to see on a video. the reps just couldn't understand that, and i could feel a moment of doubt through there tone of voice that i must be making this stuff up. Sharp better wake up fast, because believe me the net is a great super fast way to spread the news of the lackluster qc and support one company has given.


----------



## Glenee

I knew it had to be Bad Service, because I have never seen anything spread this Fast on ALL Forums. These Guys better get there stuff together Quickly and I mean Quickly, Like Now.
I know they have People that read these forums, If they don't their Idiot's.


----------



## cleveland plasma

Airgas1998 said:


> ^^^
> well said, i feel the same way. the support dept. wants everything video taped and sent in for review and verification. when i told them that capturing an image and that the problem associated with what i was having was going to be very difficult to see on a video. the reps just couldn't understand that, and i could feel a moment of doubt through there tone of voice that i must be making this stuff up. Sharp better wake up fast, because believe me the net is a great super fast way to spread the news of the lackluster qc and support one company has given.


Any issues is hard / if not impossible to capture on camera, whether still or video.....


----------



## Airgas1998

cleveland plasma said:


> Any issues is hard / if not impossible to capture on camera, whether still or video.....


exactly....that is why when they said, take a video of it and send it in. i'm like Unbelievable! did i just call the right #. have you guys ever heard of sending out a technician on your behalf.


----------



## davidjschenk

Radtech51 said:


> Sorry it took me so long to write up this review but it has been a very busy two weeks for me and I've been spending all my time with my new ELITE PRO-70X5FD.


Thanks for those additional photos and the report, RadTecn51; they are indeed lovely. The city scene from Dark Knight is especially interesting to me, as on that one BFJ96 and I were able to discern just a hint of of LCD motion artifacts while we were at Robert's store. Specifically, we saw mild artifacting on the grids formed by the windows in the skyscrapers during pan scenes. Fluid Motion fixed that, but also introduced undesired SOE. Have you been able to notice anything like that yourself?

Yours,

David


----------



## Radtech51

davidjschenk said:


> Thanks for those additional photos and the report, RadTecn51; they are indeed lovely. The city scene from Dark Knight is especially interesting to me, as on that one BFJ96 and I were able to discern just a hint of of LCD motion artifacts while we were at Robert's store. Specifically, we saw mild artifacting on the grids formed by the windows in the skyscrapers during pan scenes. Fluid Motion fixed that, but also introduced undesired SOE. Have you been able to notice anything like that yourself?
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Hi David, I currently have Motion Enhancement at > 120Hz High and so far I'm loving it. I can't tell much of a difference although I no longer have the VT30 Plasma for direct comparison so I am forced to go from memory. I want to say it's very close and I never noticed much of a difference in motion when my ELITE replaced my VT30. I'm thinking a direct side by side comparison would reveal slightly more since we know the high end Plasma TV's should be handling motion better. 
End result though is I'm very happy with the way the ELITE is handling motion right now because there appears to be no major noticeable differences between the two going from my memory. I can also tell you that when the end credits scroll down at the end of a movie it looks smoothie like my VT30 Plasma did. :sn:

PS: Thank goodness I don't see any Fluctuating Brightness issues like I did on my VT30, I'm so glad it's finally over with. Panasonic should be ashamed of themselves for ever releasing a TV like that. addle:


----------



## Glenee

I am one of those wait to be owner's. I am Glad that Sharp handle some of the problems, Like they should.
I can't wait until these get into more people's hands and have had time to get them Broke in , and go to Calibrating. I want to read what they see. Everything I read and what I suspect is these Video pleaser's have Pioneer written all over them.


----------



## CHASLS2

Guess we will know more after the shootout today.


----------



## Airgas1998

CHASLS2 said:


> Guess we will know more after the shootout today.


sorry...but it's been delayed until 10/15-10/16....


----------



## davidjschenk

Airgas1998 said:


> sorry...but it's been delayed until 10/15-10/16....


Not quite. It's rescheduled for 10/8 (6:00 pm) and 10/9 (1:00 pm):

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-shoot-out-evaluation-event-3.html#post460290

Medical problems for the keynote speaker compelled this delay.

Yours,

David


----------



## Airgas1998

davidjschenk said:


> Not quite. It's rescheduled for 10/8 (6:00 pm) and 10/9 (1:00 pm):
> 
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-shoot-out-evaluation-event-3.html#post460290
> 
> Medical problems for the keynote speaker compelled this delay.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


wow...the vx300 is coming. this should be quite the shootout.


----------



## aleicgrant

Cannot wait!!!


----------



## rab-byte

I've taken one crack at calibrating this TV and ended up getting upset and stepping away for a while. 
----
The Good:
1) Great black levels

2) Virtually flat gamma at 2.0/2.2/2.4!!!!

3) Sharp style CMS but everything works well!!! I got hue/saturation/luminance all under 1% best I've seen in at TV in a long time. 

----
The Bad:
1) sharps service menu/ISF menu access is a pain always has been

2) when setting WB in 10pt it clipped at 60IRE!!!! (windows)

3) upon pressing back one too many time I lost about 2hours worth of work. 
----

I'll be taking another crack at this TV on Tuesday. It's in a showroom (had it been a customer's home I would have stayed as long as I needed). On another forum I read another ISF tech was having issues with gamma at 60Hz. I'm wondering if this forthcoming firmware is because of this clipping issue?


----------



## dsinger

^ see post 371 regarding your 60 IRE problem. This is what i was referring to over on AVS.


----------



## sycore

Airgas1998 said:


> wow...the vx300 is coming. this should be quite the shootout.


I hope it is there also, but Robert's post says give them the *opportunity* to be there. I could be wrong, but I take it to mean if they are released in time and he gets one in inventory. I don't think he takes direct product samples from the factory. Just pulls a random one from inventory to assure a fair shootout.


----------



## rab-byte

rab-byte said:


> ... On another forum I read another ISF tech was having issues with gamma at 60Hz.


60IRE that is
Oops


----------



## gimp

How many shades of gradation in the PRO-70X5FD gray scale? Trying to compare to the VX300.


----------



## lynskyn

Has anyone been able to find discrete IR codes to directly access inputs on this TV without scrolling through the menu? I have contacted Elite support and from what I can tell, the only way at this time to do that is via RS-232. I asked them to please provide discrete codes for those who are not set up with RS-232 control and they said they would submit the request. I have already tried the Pioneer codes but no joy. 

Also, I notice my Pro-70X5FD received the firmware update. Does anyone know what changed other than the Skype stuff?

Thanks


----------



## aleicgrant

I had the pleasure of FINALLY seeing this set today at Best Buy. I can CLEARLY see why Robert at VE and others are so excited. Shame that BB hasnt done much to train their people to showcase this set.


----------



## rab-byte

Retail is a funny thing. There is usually one guy who knows their stuff. You just have to find then.

When I used to work in the store I used to get so annoyed by having to answer more questions from my co-workers then customers. But sure enough once I started working for geek squad they found another AV nut to take my place. Now I have exactly one maybe two people to speak to about issues I run into in the field who can actually help me. 

Good luck to you sir.


----------



## aleicgrant

it is a funny thing but at $8000 they should have a much more well informed group of people. As I was watching some reference material (which was a pain to get them to play it in the first place) several other customers came over and were in awe. I actually did the selling for gods sake. Anyways when the rep came over people were asking how much and of course the 8k hit them in the face. His response, yeah its got good black levels but that's it. If you want the real deal, buy the VT30 here. 

ugh its times like these I thank god for shops like VE who can show us all how its supposed to be done !!!!


----------



## rab-byte

That's the kind of story that makes my blood boil!!! I'm sorry you had such an experience (and I know it's not the only story like that).

I've been working with one of my companion stores here in NOLA trying to get them up to speed about audio and the finer points of system design. 

...sorry to hijack thus thread but I just feel very strongly about how my company is reflected.


----------



## JimP

aleicgrant said:


> I had the pleasure of FINALLY seeing this set today at Best Buy. I can CLEARLY see why Robert at VE and others are so excited. Shame that BB hasnt done much to train their people to showcase this set.


....and I just had the mispleasure of viewing a poorly done demo of the Elite. Tried to improve the picture with the remote and it still was way off even in THX mode. Then I tried to view the VT30 and it was even worst. Probably movie mode but it was dark and yellowish. They claimed that they didn't have the remote for the remote for the Panny even though there was the Panasonic displays just outside of the Magnolia part of the store where surely there must have been some Panasonic remotes. 

This was at the Magnolia inside the Best Buy in North Atlanta. Unfortunately, this is the only place in 3 states that I have been able to find an Elite display. I'm very tempted to write the people in charge and ask them to do a surprise inspection of that Magnolia to see for themselves how poorly the displays are setup. I can't see why anyone would buy a high end display based on how these sets were setup.

Guess I'll have to look some more for a decent display of the Elite.


----------



## tomboyter

JimP said:


> ....and I just had the mispleasure of viewing a poorly done demo of the Elite...
> 
> This was at the Magnolia inside the Best Buy in North Atlanta...
> 
> Guess I'll have to look some more for a decent display of the Elite.


Was this the store near Perimeter Mall? I was planning to go there this weekend because they are supposed to be the only place that has both the 60 & 70 on display ?!? I am from Columbus so this is considered a fairly long trek for me just to see a TV. Hope you are talking about a different Magnolia.


----------



## JimP

Tom,

As far as I can tell, this is the only Magnolia in Georgia. 

Located inside Best Buy
1201 Hammond Drive
Atlanta, GA 30346
(770) 391-4732

Here is the Magnolia store locator.

http://magnoliaav.com/stores


----------



## dsskid

While attending a wedding on the 9th, I stopped into Frys (the one near Lawrenceville, Ga) hoping to catch a glimpse of the new Elites, but they didn't have one. I guess they not authorized, because they have just about every other display. 
That place had to be the biggest electronics store I'd ever been in. Glad they don't have one up here or I'd be bankrupt.


----------



## Scottyb06

When checking out the display and finding that its current settings are not to your liking, I would recommend resetting the settings via the remote and then making changes that way. It is not uncommon for people (including customers) to 'tweak' the video performance of displays in a bad way. In the few Magnolias that I've visited, the remote was located in the Elite box behind the 70".


----------



## tomboyter

Thanks JimP

I thought that there was one in Peachtre City, and I have been in that Best Buy store and remember that they had some high end stuff but can't remember for sure if it was a Magnolia. Haven't been able to reach them by phone so my plan was to see the one up by Perimeter Mall. Hate to hear that they don't know what they are doing. I'm planning to give it a try this weekend anyway, cause we will be very close and I just can't pass up the chance !


----------



## rab-byte

I'm headed to calibrate my store's display now. I'll post results


----------



## JClam

My ISF calibrated 70" was purchased at VE and delivered Friday 9/16 by 2 of Robert's best guys. Installation took some time because of the complexity and quantity of of my new equipment, wiring and speaker setup, furniture and stand construction etc, but once we got past all that things were a snap. The picture popped up, we switched it to ISF night and there it was, the picture I've been dreaming about. Ed Johnson did the calibration btw, kudos to him.
--ISF day and night are absolutely spectacular for movies; DirecTV and Blu-rays had a depth and realism to them that even my wife noticed immediately. 
--Everyone here (and elsewhere) has comment how the THX setting looks so good out of the box? I agree, it really does...but in my opinion, you shouldn't spend this kind of cash on a tv and then sell yourself short...get an ISF calibration and REALLY see the difference.
--3D was also calibrated and we tested it today: DirecTV was very,very good, but the Tron Blu-ray just blew me away. My son came by for dinner tonight...he saw Tron previously in Imax 3D and was prepared to be underwhelmed...he sat there speechless for nearly 20 mins before he jumped off the couch, high fived me and called it "simply epic". 
--My room has a lot of ambient light but my previously voiced concerns about the highly reflective screen were unwarranted...no issues at all, day or night. Whew, big relief.
--Watching college football during sunny Saturday, we decided to switch from ISF day (it seemed a bit dark and muted for the lighting conditions and the content) and tryout some of the other settings. Dynamic is very bright but we stayed with that for a day of watching games and discovered later that the manual considers the Dynamic setting to be "For a clear-cut image emphasizing high contrast, useful for sports viewing." I would agree with that, but caution that it's very bright and not for all content or super long stretches of viewing unless you want some retina burn. 
--The Optimum setting is somewhere in between and per the manual "optimizes the image quality automatically based on the room brightness and image signal." Not sure it actually does any of that, but it does provide a more balanced and brighter picture very suitable for game watching...all Sunday long...except for the brief stretch of watching golf. No issues at all with the fast moving football or golf ball, but at times I thought I needed to mow the tv, you could see every blade of grass...I'm not kidding.
--I now have iRule on my iPad programmed to control the 70X5 via IP, as well as the new SC-70 and BDP-41FD (a temp BD player until the 53FD arrives). Took a little trial and error (the manual is correct but short on actual real life examples) but well worth the effort since I had a lot of trouble reading all 3 remotes, very small buttons and type made for brightly lit rooms and younger eyes.
--So far I haven't seen any of the screen issues described here that seem to be isolated to the 60's...fingers crossed.

All in all, I'm extremely happy with my purchase so far and cannot, repeat cannot say enough positive things about the quality of the knowledge, expertise, patience and service I received from ValueElectronics...Robert, Wendy and their staff are simply amazing. What a great purchase experience.

More to follow as I get a chance to discover things. Any specific questions, feel free to ask away. You have plenty of Rad's pics, so I didn't bother to post any...besides, who can compete with his camera anyway?

Jim


----------



## Evolution00

Hi Everyone

Im new to this forumn but have been following this thread with interest since the tv came out with reviews. Im excited about getting this tv with the mentioned black levels etc, just a quick question; does anyone know the average input lag/response time of the tv, im close to pulling the trigger and hunting for one very soon but with quick response times, well that would be the cherry on top! Also could someone explain the issue reported about not displaying a certain input? - Im sorry i cant be more specific i just remember reading it somewhere (maybe playing a certain file i think it was).

Cheers! :wave:


----------



## donnymac

JClam,
Very nice review. Good to hear comments from someone who has had their set professionally calibrated. Enjoy.


----------



## aleicgrant

Jim

very stoked to hear the calibration went so well. I would say its a surprise that your experience was stellar with VE but we all know thats how they handle business every day of the week. 

congrats


----------



## JimP

Now that the first wave of early adopters have paid the initial asking price, can't help but wonder where the price will settle to.


----------



## aleicgrant

JimP, I get the sense pricing wont shake out on these sets for quite some time to come. BB had them (rumor) for $6999 initially but that price is gone. Sharp set these out to change the game and command a premium price. This is why people like Robert at VE were selected to make sure the service matches what the tv and the price command. You sometimes are just not going to have a brand that is willing to discount itself because it brings the best to the market.


----------



## JimP

Yeah, right. lol

They're only so many people that are going to pay $7.5K to $8K for a display. ....and when they're gone, I think Sharp would like to sell a few more. 

I think the problems Pioneer had selling expensive displays would have been a learning lesson for the other manufacturers but who knows? People have done dumber things.


----------



## aleicgrant

the difference is Sharp has a few more business units to carry the day than Pioneer. I just dont see large volume as part of their mindset when they crafted this set.


----------



## JimP

If they have a single facility to manufacture them year round or do them for a few months and convert the line to another product that might give us some insight into how many they want to sell.


----------



## rab-byte

Okay...

4 hours of calibrating and now taking my time writing this and wow!!!

Sharp’s Elite TV is a major player. Very good black levels as many have stated before. 120Hz processing is smooth and relatively free of artifacts. The glossy finish on the screen virtually disappears when viewing content (a big + in my book). 

As with most displays I turned the other enhancements and corrections off, noise reduction and the like…

The CMS on the elite is spot on as was gamma control. I was calibrating this display for a retail location and so was forced to serve two masters in a manner of speaking. On the one hand I have an obligation to the store. Most of us know that a retail environment is not an ideal viewing condition to start with to add to that a this display will have to go toe to toe with the un-calibrated store demo mode displays to capture the lay consumers' attention; in short the TV must be bright and bold!

Next is my obligation to myself, my craft, and to set a true expectation to my potential customers. So they know what to expect when I come to calibrate a display for them. Often times I've been simply floored my customer expectations due to interactions at the store or from some half @$$ed Internet research. These misconceptions can range from people thinking- ‘calibrations making SD content look like HD’, to ‘magic’ TV repair, to the assumption that I am just going to adjust the color and contrast and call it a day. And don't forget my favorite... 'I don't know, the salesman just said I needed to get it calibrated'... needless to say I wanted this calibration to accurately Represent what I do and how good I am at it. 

To accomplish this I needed to make this display bright… like 40+ lamberts with a gamma above the dim room recommendation of 2.2. I settled on a gamma of 2.0

The new Elite is clearly a Sharp display, and like every other Sharp display I've ever encountered the hue on green and saturation on blue were off. Thanks to the elite's CMS control I was able to reign in these discrepancies with ease. I was able to get hue, saturation, and luminance all well within spec… like .5% TOTAL variance across all primary and secondary colors.

Sharp utilizes 3 individual sets of control in their ‘color management system’ (CMS). Each of these sets offers adjustments to the sets primary and secondary colors, Red/Blue/Green & Cyan/Magenta/Yellow. They are as follows. 

Hue: 
Which slides the selected color towards one of it's neighboring colors, primary towards secondary and secondary to primary. 

Saturation:
This is literally how much color is present in that color. 

Value:
How intense the color is / or how bright it is. 



The elite TV takes this control to a new level. Often times CMS controls on other TVs are inaccurate or offer limited or clunky manipulation of the color. The new Elite is truly a model of how a CMS should work! Saturation pushes and pulls color away from and towards white. Hue pivots the selected color clockwise/counter clockwise using white as the axis. Value raises and lowers the colors luminance (think of this as a vertical version of hue. Only instead of shifting the color you're changing it's luminance) again with white as the axis. 

Now for the bad...
First as I said before I truly have issues with how one has to access Sharp's service menu. In my opinion any service menu that requires you to physically unplug the TV from the wall is a flawed system. This will particularly be a nuisance to any calibrators presented with this TV mounted over a fireplace. 

Next, and understand I own an LCD and commonly recommend them to friends and family, this is still an LCD screen. Black levels are drastically affected by viewing angle. I would not hang this or any other LCD screen over a fireplace without a proper tilting mount or even an articulating one.

Last time I tried to wrangle this display I was thwarted buy an extremely bad anomaly at 60IRE. The screen literally was a milky yellow with all other levels of a waterfall pattern showing a good D65 balance. I once again encountered an issue with white balance; this time at 50IRE. I was able to figure out a work around of sorts. 10-40IRE controls worked just as expected then 60-90IRE functioned with controls from 50-80IRE on the set. Try as I might I could not reign in or even effect much of any change at 50IRE. 

The 50IRE issue was unmistakable to the trained eye but fortunately giving me a blue error this time, and a much less pronounced error, so it was much less noticeable then if it had been a green or the same yellow error as before.

--
It is my understanding that we can expect a firmware update to come out soon and hopefully that corrects the errors in white balance I encountered. Also I am not going to discount that this could be an issue with this specific display. When the store puts out the 60” I’ll test that theory. All and all I am quite impressed with the TV as a whole. The image was very stable with little or no fluctuation from my meter except at extremely low IRE (10/20) and around 50 where I encountered the flaw. Colors were spectacular and motion fluid but natural, defiantly an amazing display indeed and one that will challenge other manufacturers to rise to meet them. Is it worth the $$$$? Is it better or on par with the Kuro? Well that’s not my place to say.


----------



## Airgas1998

rab-byte said:


> Okay...
> 
> 4 hours of calibrating and now taking my time writing this and wow!!!
> 
> Sharp’s Elite TV is a major player. Very good black levels as many have stated before. 120Hz processing is smooth and relatively free of artifacts. The glossy finish on the screen virtually disappears when viewing content (a big + in my book).
> 
> As with most displays I turned the other enhancements and corrections off, noise reduction and the like…
> 
> The CMS on the elite is spot on as was gamma control. I was calibrating this display for a retail location and so was forced to serve two masters in a manner of speaking. On the one hand I have an obligation to the store. Most of us know that a retail environment is not an ideal viewing condition to start with to add to that a this display will have to go toe to toe with the un-calibrated store demo mode displays to capture the lay consumers' attention; in short the TV must be bright and bold!
> 
> Next is my obligation to myself, my craft, and to set a true expectation to my potential customers. So they know what to expect when I come to calibrate a display for them. Often times I've been simply floored my customer expectations due to interactions at the store or from some half @$$ed Internet research. These misconceptions can range from people thinking- ‘calibrations making SD content look like HD’, to ‘magic’ TV repair, to the assumption that I am just going to adjust the color and contrast and call it a day. And don't forget my favorite... 'I don't know, the salesman just said I needed to get it calibrated'... needless to say I wanted this calibration to accurately Represent what I do and how good I am at it.
> 
> To accomplish this I needed to make this display bright… like 40+ lamberts with a gamma above the dim room recommendation of 2.2. I settled on a gamma of 2.0
> 
> The new Elite is clearly a Sharp display, and like every other Sharp display I've ever encountered the hue on green and saturation on blue were off. Thanks to the elite's CMS control I was able to reign in these discrepancies with ease. I was able to get hue, saturation, and luminance all well within spec… like .5% TOTAL variance across all primary and secondary colors.
> 
> Sharp utilizes 3 individual sets of control in their ‘color management system’ (CMS). Each of these sets offers adjustments to the sets primary and secondary colors, Red/Blue/Green & Cyan/Magenta/Yellow. They are as follows.
> 
> Hue:
> Which slides the selected color towards one of it's neighboring colors, primary towards secondary and secondary to primary.
> 
> Saturation:
> This is literally how much color is present in that color.
> 
> Value:
> How intense the color is / or how bright it is.
> 
> 
> 
> The elite TV takes this control to a new level. Often times CMS controls on other TVs are inaccurate or offer limited or clunky manipulation of the color. The new Elite is truly a model of how a CMS should work! Saturation pushes and pulls color away from and towards white. Hue pivots the selected color clockwise/counter clockwise using white as the axis. Value raises and lowers the colors luminance (think of this as a vertical version of hue. Only instead of shifting the color you're changing it's luminance) again with white as the axis.
> 
> Now for the bad...
> First as I said before I truly have issues with how one has to access Sharp's service menu. In my opinion any service menu that requires you to physically unplug the TV from the wall is a flawed system. This will particularly be a nuisance to any calibrators presented with this TV mounted over a fireplace.
> 
> Next, and understand I own an LCD and commonly recommend them to friends and family, this is still an LCD screen. Black levels are drastically affected by viewing angle. I would not hang this or any other LCD screen over a fireplace without a proper tilting mount or even an articulating one.
> 
> Last time I tried to wrangle this display I was thwarted buy an extremely bad anomaly at 60IRE. The screen literally was a milky yellow with all other levels of a waterfall pattern showing a good D65 balance. I once again encountered an issue with white balance; this time at 50IRE. I was able to figure out a work around of sorts. 10-40IRE controls worked just as expected then 60-90IRE functioned with controls from 50-80IRE on the set. Try as I might I could not reign in or even effect much of any change at 50IRE.
> 
> The 50IRE issue was unmistakable to the trained eye but fortunately giving me a blue error this time, and a much less pronounced error, so it was much less noticeable then if it had been a green or the same yellow error as before.
> 
> --
> It is my understanding that we can expect a firmware update to come out soon and hopefully that corrects the errors in white balance I encountered. Also I am not going to discount that this could be an issue with this specific display. When the store puts out the 60” I’ll test that theory. All and all I am quite impressed with the TV as a whole. The image was very stable with little or no fluctuation from my meter except at extremely low IRE (10/20) and around 50 where I encountered the flaw. Colors were spectacular and motion fluid but natural, defiantly an amazing display indeed and one that will challenge other manufacturers to rise to meet them. Is it worth the $$$$? Is it better or on par with the Kuro? Well that’s not my place to say.


very nice write up...i hope they will come up with some form of corrected action towards fixing the wb. as i would like to have chad b. calibrate my set,but am hesitant until a fix comes out.


----------



## cleveland plasma

aleicgrant said:


> JimP, I get the sense pricing wont shake out on these sets for quite some time to come.


 It will probably take some time. Well see what happens.


----------



## Glenee

Over on AVS there are a couple of guys that went to a Best Buy in New York. They said that when they brought the Box out to unpack, It said Pioneer Elite 70" on the Box. What's up with that at Best Buy ?


----------



## rab-byte

It may have said 'Elite' is a registered triad mark of pioneer? Maybe. 

It's my understanding that the 'Elite' brand is supposed to span the gamut from Pioneer to Sharp's various high end 'Elite' is supposed to be almost a brand in itself. I mean unlike every other TV on the planet this one does not have any other name on it's face.


----------



## Airgas1998

Glenee said:


> Over on AVS there are a couple of guys that went to a Best Buy in New York. They said that when they brought the Box out to unpack, It said Pioneer Elite 70" on the Box. What's up with that at Best Buy ?




It said Pioneer Elite 

As i have stated before, i call bologna ....prove me wrong....


----------



## rab-byte

Airgas1998 said:


> It said Pioneer Elite
> 
> As i have stated before, i call bologna ....prove me wrong....


+1


----------



## lynskyn

The only place on my box where the word Pioneer appears is where it says "ELITE and ELITE logo are registered trademarks of Pioneer Corporation"


----------



## JClam

no pioneer on the box anywhere I could find.
who cares?


----------



## Glenee

No Problems. I was just Curious.


----------



## buzzard767

rab-byte said:


> Last time I tried to wrangle this display I was thwarted buy an extremely bad anomaly at 60IRE. The screen literally was a milky yellow with all other levels of a waterfall pattern showing a good D65 balance.


It's %, not IRE which is an inappropriate carryover from CRTs. Flat panels are all in percentages of peak white.

You need to look at 55% and 65% RGB balances as this should give you some knowledge of why 60% is incorrect. You might find that you need to adjust 50% and/or 70% to get 60% in the ball park.

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator


----------



## rab-byte

That's the issue 40 adjusted at 40 with no change in 50 and 50 adjusted 60 with no change in 50. IE the problem I was faced with.


----------



## buzzard767

rab-byte said:


> That's the issue 40 adjusted at 40 with no change in 50 and 50 adjusted 60 with no change in 50. IE the problem I was faced with.


Color shift. Try changing contrast a click or two.

Buzz
THX Certified Video Calibrator


----------



## rab-byte

Pulled up a waterfall and looked to see if I could adjust and yes I was able to move the clip to higher/lower IRE but raising it introduced additional errors and I had to lower contrast to such a level that I lost dynamics. 

For me it was am issue of mitigating problems. I guess that's why we call calibration an art and a science.


----------



## dsinger

I ran into the same problem when calibrating my 70X5. In my case the color shift was to pink. Gave up on the 10 point in the Elite and adjusted the gains to lower overall white balance down to the 6700 range from O of B ~7100 in THX. Used Lumagen Radiance 21 point gamma/grayscale to calibrate from that point. No problem at 50-60% when using the Radiance.


----------



## buzzard767

dsinger said:


> I ran into the same problem when calibrating my 70X5. In my case the color shift was to pink. Gave up on the 10 point in the Elite and adjusted the gains to lower overall white balance down to the 6700 range from O of B ~7100 in THX. Used Lumagen Radiance 21 point gamma/grayscale to calibrate from that point. No problem at 50-60% when using the Radiance.


Good point. No consumer display is perfect. I use DVDO iScan Duos with only 10% adjustments but they are incrementally fine enough that problems can usually be worked out. 20 point adjustment was on my begging list when I talked to DVDO at CEDIA a couple weeks ago.

Buzz


----------



## Airgas1998

70" same issue as well.....

ok guys i am perplexed and baffled as to what i am going through, i need some input. i just got my 70" today, and after setting it up and putting it through it's paces. i have the exact same anomally as what my 60" set exhibited. the issue is a flickering or background fluctuation. it only occurs on background images. ie;walls or other similar objects. now in theory we would certainly think i have some issue w/ my components. certainly you wouldn't think i would have two sets exhibit the same issues.especially with two different panels. so here is where i need some diagnostic help. it doesn't matter if i route my dvr/br player indirectly or directly to the set it still produces the issue. so naturally one would think maybe a hdmi handshake issue or component issue. however, i can replicate the same problem wheather or not i give it a direct ota (75ohm coaxial cable feed) or stream a movie via the ethernet cable. so i have know choice in thinking it has to be the panel,but nobody else has mentioned even the slightest bit of what i am experiencing except Ken who briefly said, "he saw a little flicker in thx mode."
so i ask anybody on some suggestions on what they think it may or may not be. this issue really has me stumped.


----------



## rab-byte

Is local dimming on or off?
Is 120 set to high/low/off?

What about film modes?


----------



## lynskyn

Airgas1988, I noticed that in the background on certain shows. I turned off "Active contrast" in the Advanced menu and have not seen it since.


----------



## Airgas1998

rab-byte said:


> Is local dimming on or off?
> Is 120 set to high/low/off?
> 
> What about film modes?


heres the problem when i disable ld it goes away.....on both 60 and my 70


----------



## rab-byte

In general I like to turn all or at least mist of the "enhanced" features off on displays. I've noticed they tend to do more harm then good. Once I have a TV set up to my liking, then and only then will I play with with those features to see if they bring anything good to the table. Usually they hurt the PQ.


----------



## Glenee

Do I hear Taps being played on this thread ?


----------



## aleicgrant

taps? what do you mean?


----------



## rab-byte

He means this thread is dead


----------



## aleicgrant

I dont think its dead by any means but the Elite's have not hit any major strides as of yet. But trust me its coming.


----------



## JimP

....or, you have at least 3 different forums with many of the same people posting the same stuff.

Gets a little rough reading all three.


----------



## Robert Zohn

I agree with Jim and all you need is HTS for the latest and most accurate flat panel TV information.  We've calibrated and delivered more Elite TVs than most retailers have even received to date. 

In less than 2 weeks we'll be evaluating 9 premium HDTVs at our shoot-out event and you can watch the live feed on the home page of HTS.

-Robert


----------



## Glenee

I didn't mean it's dead, just that it has gone quiet or Sleepy. The other Forums are at least moving.


----------



## mechman

Glenee said:


> I didn't mean it's dead, just that it has gone quiet or Sleepy. The other Forums are at least moving.


Is there something that's not covered here? :scratch:


----------



## tomboyter

Well, at long last I had the opportunity to see the Elite with my own two (somewhat inferior) eyeballs this past Saturday morning, at the Magnolia near Perimeter Mall in Atlanta. They had the 60" Elite in the top center position of a six panel display on a wall that was somewhat protected from most of the glare of in-store lighting. Bryan, the store manager, had a tablet type device that allowed him to control the feed to each of the six panels and he was able to do anything and everything that I asked of him. I thought that it was as good a situation as I have seen for showing what each set could do. The six panels included the Samsung D7000 and D8000, the LG, the Panny VT30 and the Sony 929...so the top four plazmas and the top two LCD's, which was all the ones that I would have asked to see directly compared. My Precious One was with me so I was not able to spend as much time as I would have liked, and my plan is to return with my son sometime soon. 

First impression is that the Elite is the clear leader among the panels that I saw, simply because it is able to generate the uniform, bright white level along with the well established black level performance. It was obvious that the other sets needed to be adjusted for things like sunburned flesh tones, oversaturation on most, and some overdriven backlighting on the 929, but the Elite would still in my opinion be the best display of the six. THX mode looked terrific on the hi-def feed and especially on the Panasonic demo disc. I asked Bryan to increase the color saturation in THX to see how it would compare to the others in torch mode, and was very pleased to see that the Elite can be made to look pretty much any way that you choose. I also asked to see it in Dynamic, thinking about Saturday football, and Dear One said that it was so bright that it hurt her eyes...another hopeful thing. 

Now to the glare issue. All of the six panels exhibited refelctivity, especially the LG. The D8000, the VT30and the 929 were somewhat less reflective to my eye. The Elite was somewhere in between. What was "hopeful" to me was that the Elite can be cranked up so that the brightness will overcome the reflectivity and it might indeed be watchable in our den. The only way to tell is to try it and see. If we *can* try it on a 60 day return basis, then I want to. It is definitely worth a try. I think that it is the best hope for us to replace our current set. I will need to see that they can solve the technical issues first and then see if the price can become somewhat more earthly but I came away more favorably impressed than I expected to. I will definitely return for a more thorough evaluation!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Regarding the Elite TV's ability to deliver a bright image we were actually able to get the panel set to output 140fl and not clip the lightest shade of gray. Of course, we would not set the TV to 140fl, but it does demonstrate how bright this panel can be without clipping and still maintaining an amazing black level.

It's the enormous dynamic range of black to white without clipping or crushing that makes this TV stand out against all other panels. 

3D pq is stunning as we do calibrate for 3D in the Movie Mode to be very bright to overcome the light degradation from wearing the tinted 3D active glasses. 

-Robert


----------



## Glenee

mechman said:


> Is there something that's not covered here? :scratch:


It's not that ! It's that this forum went 3-Days without a new post on this SOTA type display. I want this thread to be moving, and keep moving. I like this Forum and don't want to see it become the last one everybody checks once a week.
Believe me it is in the Best Interest of the Forum.
Look what just happened. Where did all these poster's come from within 2 hours when there hasn't been anything posted lately.
Just trying to Help.
No Offense meant to you or anyone else.
Glen:T


----------



## mechman

Glenee said:


> No Offense meant to you or anyone else.


None taken Glen. Just thought we were missing something new.


----------



## PioEliteGuy

Robert Zohn said:


> I agree with Jim and all you need is HTS for the latest and most accurate flat panel TV information.  We've calibrated and delivered more Elite TVs than most retailers have even received to date.
> 
> In less than 2 weeks we'll be evaluating 9 premium HDTVs at our shoot-out event and you can watch the live feed on the home page of HTS.
> 
> -Robert


This is very true. Believe this man! I stopped by VE this past Saturday and met Robert for the first time. It was a pleasure. I purchased my Elite PRO-60X5FD through him. My set will be calibrated by Ed Johnson and delivered on Friday. I can't wait...


----------



## lynskyn

FYI - I was able to use the discrete IR input codes from the Pioneer Pro-141FD to access the inputs on this TV directly. I had to download them to my remote from the URC database. When I tried to import the hex codes Pioneer shows on their website, they didn't work on my MX-810. I only knew to do this from a guy named Bryan on the AVS forum who had posted a file that works with URC remotes. Anyway, I am now able to use my macros to go directly to any HDMI input.


----------



## JClam

tomboyter said:


> ...
> Now to the glare issue. All of the six panels exhibited refelctivity, especially the LG. The D8000, the VT30and the 929 were somewhat less reflective to my eye. The Elite was somewhere in between. What was "hopeful" to me was that the Elite can be cranked up so that the brightness will overcome the reflectivity and it might indeed be watchable in our den. The only way to tell is to try it and see....


I think I mentioned this earlier, but in case someone missed it...

My viewing room is our Sunroom. It has vaulted ceilings with 6 skylights, two 20ft walls of all glass and another wall that is 20ft and open into a bright kitchen and eating area. The walls are white. The tile floor is white. I have blinds on all the windows and skylights and you guessed it, they are all white to let in diffuse light without ruining the furniture (which for my wife is more important than tv reflections). As an aside, I had the contrast screen removed and calibrated my Elite Pro 710 when I bought it in 1998 because it was impossible to watch in this room with the screen on due to reflections.

So as you can imagine, one of my primary issues before purchasing my 70 from Robert was reflections.

I can say now, 10 days in, that reflections from the 70X5FD are NOT an issue in my room. Daytime, night time, movies, sports, not an issue, ever.

Jim


----------



## davidjschenk

PioEliteGuy said:


> This is very true. Believe this man! I stopped by VE this past Saturday and met Robert for the first time. It was a pleasure. I purchased my Elite PRO-60X5FD through him. My set will be calibrated by Ed Johnson and delivered on Friday. I can't wait...


Congratulations, PioEliteGuy. As a guy who just doesn't have the money for one of these (or any other upgrades) right now, I quite envy you and the other Elite owners. *sigh* Oh, well ... at least I'll be able to attend the shootout: I do have enough money for that (can't wait, actually).

Yours,

David


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Did anyone get an extended warranty on their Elite? I went to Mack Camera which Robert at VE recommends. They ask for the service contract number. Does anyone know where this is? :huh:


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> Regarding the Elite TV's ability to deliver a bright image we were actually able to get the panel set to output 140fl and not clip the lightest shade of gray. Of course, we would not set the TV to 140fl, but it does demonstrate how bright this panel can be without clipping and still maintaining an amazing black level.
> 
> It's the enormous dynamic range of black to white without clipping or crushing that makes this TV stand out against all other panels.
> 
> 3D pq is stunning as we do calibrate for 3D in the Movie Mode to be very bright to overcome the light degradation from wearing the tinted 3D active glasses.
> 
> -Robert


That is retina searing light output levels :rubeyes: ...they need to put a warning label on the box.


----------



## Glenee

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Did anyone get an extended warranty on their Elite? I went to Mack Camera which Robert at VE recommends. They ask for the service contract number. Does anyone know where this is? :huh:


Robert will be along shortly to Help you out with this !


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct as usual Glennee. The mack service contract # is 1053.

If you have any questions about the warranty or are interested in getting this warranty let me know.

-Robert


----------



## Glenee

I knew that you would.
Robert has never left anyone out on a limb by them self.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

I HAVE THIS 70" TV - IT'S WONDERFUL!

I purchased this TV for just south of $6,500 locally. My previous set was a Samsung 70"+ DLP that was ISF calibrated in 2006. The picture quality of this set, out of the box, clearly blows away my old DLP and every other LCD/LED display that I've ever seen. After just one day I began noticing details in HD content that I never knew were there. Colors, while vibrant, are also natural. Images on this TV appear to have a tremendous dynamic range from light to dark, probably due to the local dimming and other technologies. I was floored by the picture quality, especially with Blu-Ray and Netflix 1080p content. This TV even made The Golden Girls look good on a standard, non-HD satellite feed. Now that's an accomplishment! 

I find that THX Movie mode is dull and flat using the defaults. Changing from "local dimming ON" to Low or Mid in the IVC restores some punch and much needed contrast to the THX mode. Local contrast is turned off by default, but I turned it back on. This gives me the best of both worlds - a more film-like color tone with the punchy contrast that I like. I also use Elite Pure for my normal TV viewing pleasure. I find that mode improves and elevates almost any source material.

In my personal, non-technical opinion you can achieve picture perfection with this set simply by using the available controls. In terms of picture quality, this TV is 98% there. If you really need that last 2%, an ISF calibration will probably get you there. Will you actually notice any difference in normal viewing? Probably not. But before all of you guys jump on me, again, this is my non-technical opinion. I'm sure there are technical reasons why you would want to have the set calibrated, I just don't know if the perceived benefits are worth the price on a set that already delivers a wonderful image out of the box.


I do find it interesting when I read people saying that they have disabled all of the image enhancing technology in order to enjoy a more "pure" and true picture. If you enjoy that kind of image quality, ok then. But personally I find that these technologies - Intelligent Variable Contrast, Local Dimming, RGB+Y, Local Contrast, etc. - all contribute to improve picture quality and to give the image a depth that it would otherwise lack. In the brochure for this TV, Sharp goes to great lengths to promote IVT as THE technology that sets this TV apart from the rest. They spend one page in total on RGB+Y, Precision Color Plus, FluidMotion, Gen-Ten Panel, Full Array LED, and Local Dimming. Sharp spends an entire page just describing IVT. Here is the quote: "Intelligent Variable Contrast is what sets Elite LCD TVs apart from others in the market. Coupled with RGB+Y, this unique technology enhances color gamut range and automatically controls brightness and backlight to create depth of color, brilliance, detail and black levels." It would seem that those who have turned off IVT are disabling the one feature which, according to Sharp, is the main feature setting this TV apart from the rest. I guess the reciprocal question would be this: Is IVT worth the premium Sharp is charging for this TV if that is the feature, in Sharp's words, that sets this TV apart from the rest?

My only criticisms are that there is no quick way to switch to a different picture mode without going into the menu or cycling through the picture modes individually. It would be nice if I could just pick the one I wanted from a quick pop-up. The remote control is picky about how it's aimed at the TV - one button press may work, the next one may not if you have drifted out of the limited 30-degree angle where the remote is effective. I wish Sharp would have bundled a remote with a slide-out keyboard - like Samsung - which would make searching Netflix and other services a more satisfying experience. The YouTube implementation on this TV is next to useless, I don't even bother. If you want a good time on YouTube, I advise getting an AppleTV or a GoogleTV. Lastly, the TV appears to be interfering with the IR remote on my Denon receiver. I've read that LCD TVs can emit some electronic noise that can interfere with IR remotes, and this appears to be true with this TV and my Denon remote. The issue may disappear once I wall mount the TV and give a little more separation between it and the A/V receiver.

Overall I am thrilled with the purchase. I couldn't have asked for more in terms of picture quality. DSE, blooming, clouding, etc. - I don't know about any of those things. All I know is that when I watch this TV, I'm sitting in front of something really special. I've watched dramas, fast action sporting events, contrasty scenes w/ silhouettes, etc. So far everything has looked simply outstanding. I am also the type of person who doesn't go looking for defects, but so far I have not seen any.


----------



## Glenee

Sounds like a man who's satisfied with your purchase. 
Congratulation


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Quick follow-up on the "pulsing" some are describing in neutral tone backgrounds. I have seen this as well, but it appears to be image noise. The light, itself, is not pulsing - the noise is increasing and decreasing which causes the perception of pulsing. In the worst cases, it was mild and barely noticeable. In the user manual it does state that some of the motion settings can increase the noise level, and if that's the case to simply disable the setting. This would appear to be totally fixable in software, but the same symptom has been identified in discontinued Kuro sets - so it's definitely a software issue. I didn't notice it before, but after reading a few earlier posts I decided to look for the issue. It does not have any impact on my normal viewing.


----------



## tomboyter

I can say now, 10 days in, that reflections from the 70X5FD are NOT an issue in my room. Daytime, night time, movies, sports, not an issue, ever.

Jim[/QUOTE]

Hey Jim, 

thank you for this and I want you to know that it was your earlier post that encouraged me to drive to Atlanta to see the Elite. Our viewing rooms sound very similar, and I am even more excited about the idea after reading your comments above !


----------



## Radtech51

Hello everyone! Just got back from vacation but I wanted to hop on and say Hello to everyone. IT's sure nice to be back home again, I did suffer from ELITE withdraws but the vacation was worth it. ;p


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

RE: Reflections

What nobody has mentioned yet is the fact that the front screen of this set appears to have an optical coating. Any reflection you see off the glass is greatly reduced and slightly rose tinted. I believe it has been coated to reduce reflections and perhaps improve contrast. The reason "reflective" screens are so popular today among computer monitors and TVs is because they allow for greater image depth and color fidelity than was possible with matte, anti-glare screens. It makes sense - if you let more light come through, you will end up with better colors and dynamic range.


----------



## mechman

Radtech51 said:


> Hello everyone! Just got back from vacation but I wanted to hop on and say Hello to everyone. IT's sure nice to be back home again, I did suffer from ELITE withdraws but the vacation was worth it. ;p


Welcome back! It's good to see you back. :T


----------



## Airgas1998

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Quick follow-up on the "pulsing" some are describing in neutral tone backgrounds. I have seen this as well, but it appears to be image noise. The light, itself, is not pulsing - the noise is increasing and decreasing which causes the perception of pulsing. In the worst cases, it was mild and barely noticeable. In the user manual it does state that some of the motion settings can increase the noise level, and if that's the case to simply disable the setting. This would appear to be totally fixable in software, but the same symptom has been identified in discontinued Kuro sets - so it's definitely a software issue. I didn't notice it before, but after reading a few earlier posts I decided to look for the issue. It does not have any impact on my normal viewing.


not quite i know what you are saying about dn, but that is not waht i have going on.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

I'm surprised CNET hasn't put up a full review yet on the Elites...


----------



## Radtech51

mechman said:


> Welcome back! It's good to see you back. :T


Thank you my friend, I missed everyone as well. :sn:


----------



## Radtech51

Some more screen shot's I took today for everyone to enjoy, I also included a small sample video. 
All images were taken in Movie (THX) Picture mode.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Beautiful images!

-Robert


----------



## PARDON ME

Radtech51 said:


> Some more screen shot's I took today for everyone to enjoy, I also included a small sample video.
> All images were taken in Movie (THX) Picture mode.



Wow RadTech you have outdone yourself with the photos, they are amazing


----------



## HONOR

................


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

I'm confused as to why people are posting videos and photos? How is a low resolution photo or video supposed to represent the quality of this set? Also, unless you are using manual exposure, your camera's limited dynamic range will generally cause the darker areas to look black. Photos, due to exposure issues, cannot be used as an indicator of a TV's quality.

Someone either in this thread or another posted an image from a Sony TV, but everyone started ooh'ing and aah'ing as if it were the Elite and what a great image it has. Until, of course, the hoax was revealed. If that isn't enough proof that photographs are useless, I don't know what else is.


----------



## buzzard767

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I'm confused as to why people are posting videos and photos? How is a low resolution photo or video supposed to represent the quality of this set?


Especially agonizing is when an entire series of placebo photos are posted followed by a quote response containing all of the same pix for a nice waste of band width. onder:


----------



## mechman

buzzard767 said:


> Especially agonizing is when an entire series of placebo photos are posted followed by a quote response containing all of the same pix for a nice waste of band width. onder:


Good point Buzz. I'll remove them.


----------



## HONOR

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I'm confused as to why people are posting videos and photos? How is a low resolution photo or video supposed to represent the quality of this set? Also, unless you are using manual exposure, your camera's limited dynamic range will generally cause the darker areas to look black. Photos, due to exposure issues, cannot be used as an indicator of a TV's quality.
> 
> Someone either in this thread or another posted an image from a Sony TV, but everyone started ooh'ing and aah'ing as if it were the Elite and what a great image it has. Until, of course, the hoax was revealed. If that isn't enough proof that photographs are useless, I don't know what else is.


AZREO, I don’t want you to be confused… so I deleted the video. Maybe next time I can use color coding and popups to convey the purpose of my post. 
Rad, the pics are awesome, keep them coming. I appreciate the time you took out of your day to post all of them.


----------



## ScrapManson

Hey guys I'm new to this forum, but I've been following it for a while! I've been very interested in this tv. I just purchased he d8000 before I heard about this tv because I shopped at BB and the young guys there don't knzow to much? Lol I also just bought some new b&w cm9's and wow they are unbelievable! Well back to the moral of the story....I'm looking at purchasing one of these bad boys and was wondering if it was worth it seeing I have the 8000 already. Also once I purchase it I have no idea how I can get it calibrated as I live in Tucson, AZ and the only people I know of that do that are BB and well....:nono: Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks


----------



## ScrapManson

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I HAVE THIS 70" TV - IT'S WONDERFUL!
> 
> I purchased this TV for just south of $6,500 locally.


Wow how'd you get it at that price?? :yikes:


----------



## dsskid

ScrapManson said:


> Hey guys I'm new to this forum, but I've been following it for a while! I've been very interested in this tv. I just purchased he d8000 before I heard about this tv because I shopped at BB and the young guys there don't knzow to much? Lol I also just bought some new b&w cm9's and wow they are unbelievable! Well back to the moral of the story....I'm looking at purchasing one of these bad boys and was wondering if it was worth it seeing I have the 8000 already. Also once I purchase it I have no idea how I can get it calibrated as I live in Tucson, AZ and the only people I know of that do that are BB and well....:nono: Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks


Welcome to the Forum :wave:
The D8000 plasma is a very nice display. Not quite sure how it compares head to head to the Sharp Elite yet, but Value Electronics is having their annual shootout this weekend, and the D8000, VT30, Sharp Elite, Kuro 151, amongst others will be put through their paces and compared to each other. It will be streamed live in HD, and it might be of interest to you. The details are here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ctronics-hdtv-shoot-out-evaluation-event.html

-John


----------



## ScrapManson

dsskid said:


> Welcome to the Forum :wave:
> The D8000 plasma is a very nice display. Not quite sure how it compares head to head to the Sharp Elite yet, but Value Electronics is having their annual shootout this weekend, and the D8000, VT30, Sharp Elite, Kuro 151, amongst others will be put through their paces and compared to each other. It will be streamed live in HD, and it might be of interest to you. The details are here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ctronics-hdtv-shoot-out-evaluation-event.html
> 
> -John


Thanks! Sorry I must not have stated something right? I have the samsung d8000 which is an LED?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

ScrapManson said:


> Wow how'd you get it at that price?? :yikes:


I asked


----------



## ScrapManson

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I asked


Lol can you explain a little? I can't seem to get anyone here to budge!


----------



## rab-byte

ScrapManson said:


> Hey guys I'm new to this forum, but I've been following it for a while! I've been very interested in this tv. I just purchased he d8000 before I heard about this tv because I shopped at BB and the young guys there don't knzow to much? Lol I also just bought some new b&w cm9's and wow they are unbelievable! Well back to the moral of the story....I'm looking at purchasing one of these bad boys and was wondering if it was worth it seeing I have the 8000 already. Also once I purchase it I have no idea how I can get it calibrated as I live in Tucson, AZ and the only people I know of that do that are BB and well....:nono: Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks


Don't be too hard in BBY/GS if you're uncomfortable having a random guy come out and calibrate your TV talk to a store manager. I'm sure they can get ahold of one of their ISF techs and arrange for you to speak with them so you can size them up. I know I'd be willing to do that for a client any time it's needed.


----------



## ScrapManson

rab-byte said:


> Don't be too hard in BBY/GS if you're uncomfortable having a random guy come out and calibrate your TV talk to a store manager. I'm sure they can get ahold of one of their ISF techs and arrange for you to speak with them so you can size them up. I know I'd be willing to do that for a client any time it's needed.


Yeah I was kind of wondering if any of he guys on here travel to do calibrations or if I can purchase o e and have it calibrated and shipped to me? Thanks for the help:T


----------



## dsskid

ScrapManson said:


> Thanks! Sorry I must not have stated something right? I have the samsung d8000 which is an LED?


My mistake, I thought you were referring to the D8000 plasma.


----------



## rab-byte

ScrapManson said:


> Yeah I was kind of wondering if any of he guys on here travel to do calibrations or if I can purchase o e and have it calibrated and shipped to me? Thanks for the help:T


It's best to have calibrations done in home. Your room will affect the ideal setting. As lighting of the room and seating position are important factors in calibration.


----------



## mechman

ScrapManson said:


> Yeah I was kind of wondering if any of he guys on here travel to do calibrations or if I can purchase o e and have it calibrated and shipped to me? Thanks for the help:T


You can check out this thread and see if any are close to you.


----------



## Radtech51

HONOR said:


> AZREO, I don’t want you to be confused… so I deleted the video. Maybe next time I can use color coding and popups to convey the purpose of my post.
> Rad, the pics are awesome, keep them coming. I appreciate the time you took out of your day to post all of them.


I'll try and put up some more images this weekend buddy. 



ScrapManson said:


> Hey guys I'm new to this forum, but I've been following it for a while! I've been very interested in this tv. I just purchased he d8000 before I heard about this tv because I shopped at BB and the young guys there don't knzow to much? Lol I also just bought some new b&w cm9's and wow they are unbelievable! Well back to the moral of the story....I'm looking at purchasing one of these bad boys and was wondering if it was worth it seeing I have the 8000 already. Also once I purchase it I have no idea how I can get it calibrated as I live in Tucson, AZ and the only people I know of that do that are BB and well....:nono: Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!!! Thanks


Hi there, and big Grats on those B&W C9's very nice. The answer to your question is definitely Yes! The ELITE would be a Huge and Significant upgrade from your D8000 LCD. The Samsung D8000 LCD may impress you with it's external design but don't be fooled, it's still only Edge-lit technology. It can't compete with the ELITE and if you were to compare the two it would be very obvious. Your D8000 is suffering from mainly poor screen uniformity manifesting visually as clouding and flash lighting, not to mention poor black levels. I hope this helps you some in your decision.


----------



## HYMER DAXTER

davidjschenk said:


> HYMER DAXTER, you absolutely have my sympathy in this. It is particularly strange and perhaps even suggestive that they would have a French version of the owner's manual and yet not make it possible for there to be any French owners; I do not see where that arrangement makes much sense. Perhaps they're thinking of French-speaking Canada??--I don't know. When I next see Robert at the shootout, I'll harass both him and the Sharp representative as best I can to see whether or not the X5s will reach France. Please remind me of this promise I just made as we approach next weekend (that's when the shootout is).
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


:wave:


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

ScrapManson said:


> Lol can you explain a little? I can't seem to get anyone here to budge!


I went to one of the only local home theater installers still in business and told him what I was willing to pay. He said he would do it, so long as I didn't tell anyone how much they were selling it to me for. They didn't want to get in trouble with Sharp. I suspect that if you walked into a retailer who stocks this set and asked for a big discount, you'd get one. They're not going to move very many of these sets in this economy unless they start discounting. Maybe I got lucky, I don't know. Ask around?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Faint glow and what looks like "clouding" on a less than black signal...

Watching the 70" Elite in a pitch black room has led to the above observation. I reported this finding on AVSForum and two other 70" owners commented that they also see the same thing - but in their cases, the clouding was in different locations. When I say "clouding" I mean that when there is a dead signal or slightly brighter than black uniform black image on the screen (and nothing else), you can see what looks like a slightly mottled or "cloudy" pattern of dark and slightly less dark areas across the screen. It appears worse on the left half of the screen, but it's almost like there are very, very subtle areas that "glow" despite a black screen.

Has anyone here noticed this phenomenon? Since three of us on AVSForum have identified this, it would appear to not be an isolated "problem" but perhaps something inherent to this set? I've tried to take a picture of this phenomenon, but the clouds are too subtle for even my camera to pick up in a dark room. This is something your eyes will see once they are adapted to a totally black room and a black screen. Keep looking at it and you will see the clouding if you have it.

Anyone?


----------



## rab-byte

As I posted in my review. It's still an LED. Suspect that there will always be issues with LD and spacial uniformity on LCD screens. Still much better then most but for a true black in a dark room plasmas will still win out. Once your eyes adjust and your chemical dark vision kicks in you will see even minor changes in light output.


----------



## Radtech51

I managed to only see the last hour so of todays Shootout but the ELITE appeared to be the obvious Winner.


----------



## buzzard767

Radtech51 said:


> I managed to only see the last hour so of todays Shootout but the ELITE appeared to be the obvious Winner.


Although it may get the vote of the in house onlookers and "judges" it didn't pass muster in the eyes of D-Nice.


----------



## CHASLS2

I sure wanted to buy a bigger display to replace my 50" G9 Kuro, but the new Elite is not worth near 7 or 8K in my book. I will hang onto my Kuro until something that is really leaps better than my Kuro comes out. If the price on the 70" Elite gets down to around 3.5k or 4k then maybe i will jump.


----------



## davidjschenk

HYMER DAXTER said:


> :wave:


Hi HYMER DAXTER,

Last night at ValueElectronics' HDTV shootout I asked Tom Evans, the Associate Vice President of the Elite brand, if they had any plans to distribute Elites in France and/or elsewhere in continental Europe. He said the French manual was intended for French-speaking Canada and right now they have no definite plans about whether or not to start selling units in Europe. This means that they do not presently intend to sell there, but they certainly are keeping their options open for that. From what he told me, I inferred that they're waiting to see how they sell in North America and then, if NA sales go well, they'll take it to western Europe.

Yours,

David


----------



## davidjschenk

buzzard767 said:


> Although it may get the vote of the in house onlookers and "judges" it didn't pass muster in the eyes of D-Nice.


Hi Buzz,

Correct. I haven't tallied the voters' results yet, but in fact I rather doubt that the Elite was the winner last night. It has a glitch in its color decoding that yields some unhappy results in cyan and magenta. Both Elite reps swore on Bibles that the issue is easily corrected with firmware and a firmware update will be released ASAP, but the results from last night were pretty surprising. From when we were hanging out before the event, my favorite actually was the Samsung plasma, but it was a bit of a surprise to hear D-Nice say it was his fave out of the lot of them. Another one that I didn't think got nearly enough attention was Sony's HX929, which looked great. It had some minor blooming/haloing/call-it-whatever-you-want issues, but otherwise did a bang-up job.

We'll be doing even more this afternoon, with a special address _via_ S k y p e from Joel Silver.

Yours,

David


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

davidjschenk said:


> Hi Buzz,
> 
> Correct. I haven't tallied the voters' results yet, but in fact I rather doubt that the Elite was the winner last night. It has a glitch in its color decoding that yields some unhappy results in cyan and magenta. Both Elite reps swore on Bibles that the issue is easily corrected with firmware and a firmware update will be released ASAP, but the results from last night were pretty surprising. From when we were hanging out before the event, my favorite actually was the Samsung plasma, but it was a bit of a surprise to hear D-Nice say it was his fave out of the lot of them. Another one that I didn't think got nearly enough attention was Sony's HX929, which looked great. It had some minor blooming/haloing/call-it-whatever-you-want issues, but otherwise did a bang-up job.
> 
> We'll be doing even more this afternoon, with a special address _via_ S k y p e from Joel Silver.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


This is coming from a somewhat non-technical person, but are you judging the best viewing experience or are you judging the set which is most readily and easily calibrated? In my humble opinion, those are two very different things. While the Elite may have some issues with cyan and magenta which I don't really understand, how does that affect the actual quality of the image, motion processing, black levels, uniformity, blooming, and other areas where this TV is head and shoulders above the rest? How can a small color calibration issue negate all of the other goodness this TV has, unless you are only judging how well these sets calibrate?

My point here is that whatever calibration "issue" you've identified clearly has little or no impact on the actual image and viewing experience. I would bet that if you had that cyan and magenta perfectly calibrated and watched a scene with and without this anomaly, you would never see the difference in actual real-world viewing. I was shocked to hear that the THX Movie mode was designed for the most "accurate" picture. In my opinion, it is by far one of the worst viewing modes - it is dim, contrast is flat, the image looks overly warm, colors are desaturated... Putting this TV into THX mode is like taking away all of the things that make it better. For instance, the default IVT setting for THX mode is "Local Dimming ON". No Advanced IVT functions are enabled, which throws out a big reason why this TV creates such fantastic images.

Judging this group simply by how well they calibrate is not unlike being a single-issue voter. I prefer to judge something as a whole and look at the sum of the parts, not just one individual piece of a larger, very delicious pie.


----------



## rab-byte

AZREOSpecialist said:


> This is coming from a somewhat non-technical person, but are you judging the best viewing experience or are you judging the set which is most readily and easily calibrated? In my humble opinion, those are two very different things. While the Elite may have some issues with cyan and magenta which I don't really understand, how does that affect the actual quality of the image, motion processing, black levels, uniformity, blooming, and other areas where this TV is head and shoulders above the rest? How can a small color calibration issue negate all of the other goodness this TV has, unless you are only judging how well these sets calibrate?
> 
> My point here is that whatever calibration "issue" you've identified clearly has little or no impact on the actual image and viewing experience. I would bet that if you had that cyan and magenta perfectly calibrated and watched a scene with and without this anomaly, you would never see the difference in actual real-world viewing. I was shocked to hear that the THX Movie mode was designed for the most "accurate" picture. In my opinion, it is by far one of the worst viewing modes - it is dim, contrast is flat, the image looks overly warm, colors are desaturated... Putting this TV into THX mode is like taking away all of the things that make it better. For instance, the default IVT setting for THX mode is "Local Dimming ON". No Advanced IVT functions are enabled, which throws out a big reason why this TV creates such fantastic images.
> 
> Judging this group simply by how well they calibrate is not unlike being a single-issue voter. I prefer to judge something as a whole and look at the sum of the parts, not just one individual piece of a larger, very delicious pie.


At the risk of being accused of being a troll. You are wrong once you know what you're looking for errors become obvious to the trained eye. Next calibration issues are a big deal. Every TV is a little different so the ability to calibrate is no small deal. Further THX mode is very good looking, my I ask your favorite viewing mode?


----------



## Radtech51

buzzard767 said:


> Although it may get the vote of the in house onlookers and "judges" it didn't pass muster in the eyes of D-Nice.


Once the color fix is released it will be an undisputed fact the ELITE is the clear Winner of this Shootout.


----------



## Hi Resolution

It was a great shoot-out.


----------



## edvb

David

Is there one thread where we will see the results first. I have a D-Nice 65VT30 and just find the Shootout so interesting, I saw both days ignoring my work that I got done in the nick of time.


----------



## mechman

Robert has said that he will post it here at HTS first. I'd guess it would be up in one of the shootout threads in the news area.


----------



## edvb

Thanks. Just knowing what thread is it on would be great.


----------



## markrogo

So this is how an internet meme is born, follow it at your own peril.

A bunch of people go to an expertly arranged "shootout" of a bunch of flat-panel displays. What is objectively the finest piece in the lot is discovered to have a small, but important, flaw. Somehow, this flaw escaped numerous experts up to this point. When a poster on another forum identified the flaw, he asked if others saw it. Despite the high traffic of said forum, no one replied they had.

Now, in a many-display comparo, the specific flaw gets seen by all. It's still small. It will almost certainly be fixed in 1-2 months. But for the next 12 months, you will hear about how some other displays are "superior" and people will believe it.

One of those displays -- while a great bargain -- has had at least one serious quality-control problem. It also has a known problem that involves the display's brightness changing with content in an obvious -- often irritating -- way. That flaw was not "tested for" at this shootout so it "doesn't exist" according to the voting. It also has another known floor involving noise that occurs often enough a number of people have experience it and needed returns or exchanges it was so intolerable.

Of course, this same kind of invisible flaw was the very flaw in the above-mentioned display. The difference is that the color flaw in the first display will almost certainly be gone soon (it doesn't even exist in some modes of the TV). The other display's flaw(s) are real, may never be fixed and are flat out maddening to _regular people even without requiring 5 other displays in the room to notice them_.

Now I'm not saying it's not a fine television: it is. But is it better? Please. Not if your room is bright. Or you're concerned about power consumption. Or you don't want any chance of hearing your TV. Or you don't want the brightness changing on you against your will. 

But hey, a meme has been born. Don't stand in its way. What's that you said? Rick Astley's on Spotify? Gotta run...


----------



## buzzard767

Radtech51 said:


> Once the color fix is released it will be an undisputed fact the ELITE is the clear Winner of this Shootout.


This shootout, is over.

If the problems are fixed and no other display comes forward then perhaps the Elite will win next year's shootout.


----------



## buzzard767

Results


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

I'm glad I went to shootout. I learned alot. As far as the winner is concerned, the Elite is really the superior TV. It dominated 3 out of the 5 categories in the shootout voting and came a close second on the forth. As far as I'm concerned, the color issue will be resolved. I'm pretty confident about that. I'm glad that the calibrators saw the flaw on the one color, but to be honest, I like blue more.  When we were watching Tron for example, it may have been the director's intention for the character's color of his suit to be green, but we all know it should have been blue to be accurate to the original.  Once this is "fixed", I'll probably be annoyed by the colors. Haha I've been reading alot, maybe not on this board, but in general about the audience in attendance and the favoritism toward plasmas. To be honest, my friend and I felt that notion as well. As an example of that, one of the speakers indicated how "we all know plasmas are the way to go" or something to that effect. Id say 99% of the people started saying "yea" or nodded their head in agreement. I feel that can cause impartiality. I tried to stay neutral in my voting. In example, I gave the Elite's color accuracy a hit since it was clearly not what the other TVs were showing. Instead of having a voting system, maybe we should just post the results of the testing and take it for what it's worth. Also, I recommend maybe we should show some video game content in next year's shootout. Considering there are alot of us who play online or competitively, it may open more insight on the TVs capability.


----------



## rab-byte

I would like to see repose time for gaming be a factor as well. 

+1


----------



## Hutchinshouse

buzzard767 said:


> Results


Looks like the Elite is the real deal. Congrats to the Elite team.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Now that the shootout sealed the deal for me. Regarding the Elite, I assume I can use the RS232C port to control the TV. Question, where can I get a list of the supported commands? Secondly, can the Elite be controlled via IP (Ethernet port)? If so, where can I get a list of the supported commands?

FYI - I’m currently using the iRule HD app on my iPad.


Thanks!


----------



## lynskyn

Yes 0n RS232 & IP - Look in the manual on pp. 68-69 for the commands.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

lynskyn said:


> Yes 0n RS232 & IP - Look in the manual on pp. 68-69 for the commands.


Thanks!


----------



## JClam

I own a 70 Elite, so I came to Sunday's shootout with some obvious bias. But I think I was able to keep an open mind and listened carefully to all of the presentations, Q&A and discussions that took place. I took lots of notes, some were even readable later. Here's some of my random thoughts:

1. The Samsung PN59D8000 had the best color to me (nice to know my untrained eyes saw some of the same things as D-Nice). The VT30 looked good until D-Nice showed some scenes where everyone had a suntan. The Elite's color looked undersaturated and off axis viewing was very washed out (I was sitting next to the door so I was really off axis). Fortunately I don't have off axis issues in my room. I do notice the color saturation issues at home in THX and ISF day/night...and hope to address that soon with guidance from VE.

2. The black level and contrast ratio comparisons, both in a dark room and with the lights on, were remarkable even to my untrained eyes. The Elite did really well, better than all the plasma's and was as black as the Samsung and Sony LCDs, and they were turned OFF. From my notes the Elite contrast was 15,194 to 1. The next closest was 6,000ish to 1 (the VT30). The worst was 600-ish (LG). Elite Black level was .0004 (as noted previously). The others were higher (I can't read my notes, I wrote as fast as Kevin spoke and that's a bad combo for reading later).

3. The presentation showing no blooming on the Elite (vs the other LCDs) was very revealing. I felt bad for the Sony that had the bad luck to be right next to the Elite.

4. The Cyan issue with the Elite was noticeable once I was told what to look for. I've never noticed it at home in every day viewing over the last 30 days or so. Kudos to Ken for picking it up early; same to the calibrators for confirming it and speaking openly about it on both shootout days and in forum posts, and for the manufacturer for their commitment to address it...well, maybe I'll wait to give them kudos until after they fix it.

5. The Motion resolution and judder tests were also revealing. The D8000 almost made me puke from motion sickness...then the Samsung rep had them correct a setting and it was fine. Glad he was there, it would have been hard to continue viewing it with my sushi all over the front. The Elite looked very sharp and judder free with 120 low. The VT30 was also very good. I changed my settings to 120 low as soon as I got home.

6. Kevin and D-Nice were asked what factors were most important in evaluating a TV. Both seemed to give equal weight to contrast ratio and color accuracy. On that basis they couldn't call the Elite "best" due to the cyan issue. D-Nice did say publicly that if Elite fixes the cyan, it would be his top rated set. Given how well the Elite did with contrast, it's hard to argue with that logic. 

7. In my voting I had the Elite tops in black level and contrast ratio, the D8000 tops in color accuracy, the VT30, D8000 and Elite more or less tied for 3rd in motion resolution and general content video quality. Based on my math, the Elite did very well but didn't win...nor did it "kill" anyone's Kuro. Robert's "reveal" of his Kuro behind the painting was fun. It is beautiful for sure.

8. To my eye, contrast tops color accuracy. But on the basis of all of the above I'm not sure I would rate the Elite above the 2 plasmas overall and frankly I was surprised that the Elite won the shootout.

9. That said, if you have a lot of ambient light in your room (like me), I think the Elite is an appropriate solution to consider. It does great in a bright room. I just can't see either the D8000 or VT30 doing as well in terms of color or reflections in my sunroom. But I'll never know for sure now .

For now I want to get the cyan issue fixed, explore the saturation issues further, and then figure out if my 70 will need to be re-calibrated (and who will be responsible for that cost).

And finally, many thanks to Robert, Wendy, their kids and staff at VE for a great event. And to all the calibration professionals (D-Nice, Kevin, Ed) and manufacturer's reps in attendance who made the 4 hours a very worthy investment in my time.

Regards to all,

Jim


----------



## HYMER DAXTER

davidjschenk said:


> Hi HYMER DAXTER,
> 
> Last night at ValueElectronics' HDTV shootout I asked Tom Evans, the Associate Vice President of the Elite brand, if they had any plans to distribute Elites in France and/or elsewhere in continental Europe. He said the French manual was intended for French-speaking Canada and right now they have no definite plans about whether or not to start selling units in Europe. This means that they do not presently intend to sell there, but they certainly are keeping their options open for that. From what he told me, I inferred that they're waiting to see how they sell in North America and then, if NA sales go well, they'll take it to western Europe.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Thank you very much!


----------



## JClam

Hutchinshouse said:


> Now that the shootout sealed the deal for me. Regarding the Elite, I assume I can use the RS232C port to control the TV. Question, where can I get a list of the supported commands? Secondly, can the Elite be controlled via IP (Ethernet port)? If so, where can I get a list of the supported commands?
> 
> FYI - I’m currently using the iRule HD app on my iPad.
> 
> 
> Thanks!


I have my 70-X5FD (and the rest of my system) controlled via IP using iRule on my iPad and iPhone. Let me know if you run into any issues.

Jim


----------



## Radtech51

buzzard767 said:


> This shootout, is over.
> 
> If the problems are fixed and no other display comes forward then perhaps the Elite will win next year's shootout.


It did win as it should have. :sn:


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

rab-byte said:


> At the risk of being accused of being a troll. You are wrong once you know what you're looking for errors become obvious to the trained eye. Next calibration issues are a big deal. Every TV is a little different so the ability to calibrate is no small deal. Further THX mode is very good looking, my I ask your favorite viewing mode?


I prefer Elite Pure with IVT set to Advanced (Middle), FluidMotion ON, Local Contrast ON, Film Mode Advanced (low), Noise Reduction ON (low). If I'm watching in THX, I have changed to the following settings: IVT Advanced (low), Film Mode Standard, Motion 120 Hz (low), Saturation + 10, Local Contrast ON, Precision Color ON. This gives me the punchier and more contrasty image I like, but in THX mode. I understand the warmer tone better reflects what we see at the theaters, and in that respect I don't mind it. However I find that I don't like this warmer color temp when watching content sourced for TV (Desperate Housewives, Modern Family, etc.).


----------



## Airgas1998

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I prefer Elite Pure with IVT set to Advanced (Middle), FluidMotion ON, Local Contrast ON, Film Mode Advanced (low), Noise Reduction ON (low). If I'm watching in THX, I have changed to the following settings: IVT Advanced (low), Film Mode Standard, Motion 120 Hz (low), Saturation + 10, Local Contrast ON, Precision Color ON. This gives me the punchier and more contrasty image I like, but in THX mode. I understand the warmer tone better reflects what we see at the theaters, and in that respect I don't mind it. However I find that I don't like this warmer color temp when watching content sourced for TV (Desperate Housewives, Modern Family, etc.).


wow...sorry that's all i can say....


----------



## buzzard767

Radtech51 said:


> It did win as it should have. :sn:


Except in the eyes of D-Nice, something, and someone, that too many people obsess over....


----------



## dsskid

I was there Sunday. The Elite was a beautiful display, howver, the cyan error stopped me from picking it number one. IMO, the D8000 plasma edged out the VT30 as the best in show. If Panasonic and Elite correct there color errors, then the Samsung wou
D be third.


----------



## Airgas1998

dsskid said:


> I was there Sunday. The Elite was a beautiful display, howver, the cyan error stopped me from picking it number one. IMO, the D8000 plasma edged out the VT30 as the best in show. If Panasonic and Elite correct there color errors, then the Samsung wou
> D be third.


hey dsskid, your avatar of the bulldog... is that yours? i have a old english bd...love'em...


----------



## sycore

buzzard767 said:


> Except in the eyes of D-Nice, something, and someone, that too many people obsess over....


Yeah, i got a timeout over at AVS for pointing out that most people perceive color differently. And it even slightly changes with different smell, memories or emotions. A professional graphic designer over there even pointed out the something like 10% of males are color blind. Don't get me wrong, we do need a standard to adhere to and it is important they are close, but it is not the end all be all. All the color accuracy in the world is meaningless if the samsung gets washed out in ambient light.


----------



## dsskid

Airgas1998 said:


> hey dsskid, your avatar of the bulldog... is that yours? i have a old english bd...love'em...


I have 2, a male & female, 6&5 yrs old.


----------



## dsskid

sycore said:


> Yeah, i got a timeout over at AVS for pointing out that most people perceive color differently. And it even slightly changes with different smell, memories or emotions. A professional graphic designer over there even pointed out the something like 10% of males are color blind. Don't get me wrong, we do need a standard to adhere to and it is important they are close, but it is not the end all be all. All the color accuracy in the world is meaningless if the samsung gets washed out in ambient light.


The amount of light needed to wash out the Samsung, would also destroy calibration. If you have an overly bright room, you should consider the Elite or Sony.


----------



## tomboyter

So true Sycore ....

I think that we all owe some "Props", "Kudos" and (since I don't really know what those are) some gratitude to Ken Ross, who correctly identified the Elite color problem well before the Shootout and brought it to our attention. AND, certainly in my book he has earned an extra measure of "Cred" for all his future posts !

Thanks Ken, for all your valuable input !


----------



## sycore

tomboyter said:


> So true Sycore ....
> 
> I think that we all owe some "Props", "Kudos" and (since I don't really know what those are) some gratitude to Ken Ross, who correctly identified the Elite color problem well before the Shootout and brought it to our attention. AND, certainly in my book he has earned an extra measure of "Cred" for all his future posts !
> 
> Thanks Ken, for all your valuable input !


That was all Ken. He has been pointing out the cyan flaw for weeks and I don't think many others even noticed. Supposedly, even the experts at the shootout really didn't notice it when calibrating, only when they put them next to the other calibrated sets and after viewing certain scenes did it become apparent.


----------



## sycore

dsskid said:


> The amount of light needed to wash out the Samsung, would also destroy calibration. If you have an overly bright room, you should consider the Elite or Sony.


Yeah, this is why it puzzled me why the 35 FL brightness was not increased for the ambient lighting viewing at the shootout. I mean it takes away the LCDs main advantage over plasmas, the ability to overpower being washed out and minimize reflections, but those are the testing standards I guess.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Airgas1998 said:


> wow...sorry that's all i can say....


There's no need to put someone down simply because they appreciate a different viewing aesthetic than do you. I understand there are some very knowledgeable and technical people here, but there are also people like me who don't look at things the same way as you. I was simply posting my settings out of a spirit of sharing and because I was asked. From an engineer's standpoint, why not calibrate all sets to ISF standards at the factory and ship them without the ability for the consumer to change any of the image attributes? Because every person likes something different.

One person may think that THX Movie mode is the most accurate while someone else may find it flat and uninteresting. Who is "right"? They both are. It's all subjective.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

sycore said:


> Yeah, i got a timeout over at AVS for pointing out that most people perceive color differently. And it even slightly changes with different smell, memories or emotions. A professional graphic designer over there even pointed out the something like 10% of males are color blind. Don't get me wrong, we do need a standard to adhere to and it is important they are close, but it is not the end all be all. All the color accuracy in the world is meaningless if the samsung gets washed out in ambient light.


+1


----------



## Donmonte

Hi Robert, 

Would you happen to know if this TV was the same as the Elite but only released in Japan ?
http://en.akihabaranews.com/106496/...70x5-a-new-70”-3d-tv-with-“mega-bright-“panel


----------



## davisd

Donmonte said:


> Hi Robert,
> 
> Would you happen to know if this TV was the same as the Elite but only released in Japan ?


The article states it's known as the LC-70LE735U in the US so it's not the Elite.


----------



## Donmonte

Mmmm, it's not very clear. For one it is 3d THX certified like the Elite, and the set retails there for about 10.000$. The 735 has a contrast ratio stated by sharp to be 6.000.000:1, and this one has a 15.000.000:1. And it also has the same item number as the Elite (70X5)... But it sure doesn't look half as nice.
Maybe that will be the model that is introduced to the world, as it looks like the Elite is US exclusive.


----------



## Glenee

KEN for President:yay2:


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

I'm starting to think that there are at least 3 Firmware versions out there. When BFJ69 and I went down the day Robert got the 70 in August, THX mode was easily the best mode. One distinct feature we noted was the actual ability to turn the yellow sub pixel off, which was automatically the case in that mode. However, you were able to turn it on if you chose to, but looked really off. In fact, when I received the 70 and tried THX mode, there was noticeably too much yellow on the screen. I tried to turn the yellow subpixel off, but the option wasn't there. The second firmware version has to be what the 60" owners had. They noticed some other issues, but also noted that THX mode showed alot of yellow. Therefore between Robert's august released 70 and the 60" owners sets, THX mode got messed up. The version that I received didn't have to be updated since mine came with the latest firmware which the 60" owners needed to update to. Since D-Nice stated the 70" Rob had on display had issues means that he must have updated the firmware since he originally received it. I'm just trying to give some insight at least with what I've seen.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

I meant BFJ96 ;-) my bad


----------



## JClam

no posts here for 5 days?


----------



## Radtech51

Been super busy lately still loving every moment I spend with my ELITE. I went and saw a movie this weekend "THE THING." I was telling myself while watching it how much better it would have looked on my ELITE. I will never look at the Movie Theature's the same anymore after this day lol. But I guess there is still the tasty overpriced popcorn to look foward to. ;p


----------



## mechman

Day 2 presentation


----------



## robsong

I was thinking about going to see "THE THING" did you like the movie.


----------



## Radtech51

Sharp Elite wins Value Electronics' HDTV shootout
http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_...-electronics-hdtv-shootout/?tag=featuredStory


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

JClam said:


> no posts here for 5 days?


We are too busy watching TV! :bigsmile:


----------



## NYPete

I was in Best Buy the other night picking up a few things and couldn't help mosseying into the "Magnolia" area where they had both the 60X5FD and 70X5fd newly installed. The 70 inch was in its own area with theater seats in front so people could sit there and watch the tv for a while. They were playing the Lion King, which looked fantastic. It's hard to tell much on cartoons playing but it was very impressive. The 60 inch was installed on a wall with several other high end TVs, and it looked good except its colors were very washed out and desaturated. I was chatting up the Magnolia employee and she took out the remote and switched 60X5FD from THX Movie mode to Elite Pure and the color looked 100% better. At the VE shootout, several people noted that the color of the Elite looked under saturated compared to several other TVs, particularly the Samsung PN59D8000 next to it (separate issue from the cyan decoding issue). I believe because of the local-dimming being turned off when trying to calibrate color in the ISF modes, the calibrators mentioned that they calibrated the THX Movie mode. It seems maybe this mode has under saturated colors? But you would think the calibration would fix that, or at least I would. :scratch: Maybe it measures well, but looks a little off? Has anyone who has the TV noticed under-saturated colors in the THX Movie mode? What mode are you using on the TV - Elite Pure?


----------



## JClam

NYPete said:


> I was in Best Buy the other night picking up a few things and couldn't help mosseying into the "Magnolia" area where they had both the 60X5FD and 70X5fd newly installed. The 70 inch was in its own area with theater seats in front so people could sit there and watch the tv for a while. They were playing the Lion King, which looked fantastic. It's hard to tell much on cartoons playing but it was very impressive. The 60 inch was installed on a wall with several other high end TVs, and it looked good except its colors were very washed out and desaturated. I was chatting up the Magnolia employee and she took out the remote and switched 60X5FD from THX Movie mode to Elite Pure and the color looked 100% better. At the VE shootout, several people noted that the color of the Elite looked under saturated compared to several other TVs, particularly the Samsung PN59D8000 next to it (separate issue from the cyan decoding issue). I believe because of the local-dimming being turned off when trying to calibrate color in the ISF modes, the calibrators mentioned that they calibrated the THX Movie mode. It seems maybe this mode has under saturated colors? But you would think the calibration would fix that, or at least I would. :scratch: Maybe it measures well, but looks a little off? Has anyone who has the TV noticed under-saturated colors in the THX Movie mode? What mode are you using on the TV - Elite Pure?


I notice this on my 70 in isf day/nite and 3d modes and also THX Movie. Have discussed it at length on another forum. I find myself going to Optimum mode, especially when watching sports. I like the color better than Elite Pure and it doesn't burn my retina like Dynamic does. I'm hoping they address this with the cyan software fix. Would prefer to use my ISF settings but they aren't bright enough for my room and colors (especially green) look very dull and grey.


----------



## Radtech51

Just be glad you have your ELITE's everyone. 

Panasonic to trim TV business, cut 1,000 jobs.

http://www.japantoday.com/category/business/view/panasonic-to-trim-tv-business-cut-1000-jobs


----------



## JimP

Panasonic has decided to downgrade its TV sales target for this fiscal year to March from 25 million units to 20 million, Jiji Press said.

20 million sets still sounds like a lot. 

Wonder how many Sharp makes?


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Got my PRO-60X5FD on order today. Delivery on Monday. I cannot wait! :T


----------



## Robert Zohn

Congratulations Hutchinshouse!

Enjoy,

-Robert


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Robert Zohn said:


> Congratulations Hutchinshouse!
> 
> Enjoy,
> 
> -Robert


Thanks Robert! Thank you for all the solid info on the TV. If I lived on the east coast, without a doubt I would have bought it from you. Thanks again for the shootout. I’m looking forward to next year, AND the Elite retaining its crown as the king. It’s crazy; the next firmware version will only make this TV stronger.

I was looking at the Elite and the VT30. It was a very close race. I just thought the Elite had a stronger picture overall.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thank you Hutchinshouse, I'm a serious a/v enthusiast just like most members and visitors on HTS. However, just so all visitors and members know we ship Nationwide from 21 distribution locations.

I just upgraded our personal 60" Elite Signature Series PRO-141FD to the new Elite PRO-70X5FD and my family is also enjoying the best TV for 2011. We waited till now as no other display could deliver a pq that would stand up to the image quality of the 2008 Elite Kuros.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

JClam said:


> I notice this on my 70 in isf day/nite and 3d modes and also THX Movie. Have discussed it at length on another forum. I find myself going to Optimum mode, especially when watching sports. I like the color better than Elite Pure and it doesn't burn my retina like Dynamic does. I'm hoping they address this with the cyan software fix. Would prefer to use my ISF settings but they aren't bright enough for my room and colors (especially green) look very dull and grey.


Can you simply reset your THX mode to factory defaults so you can get a better picture, or was the use of a hidden service menu required to calibrate THX mode? THX mode is supposedly certified to meet THX guidelines and standards, so why would you want to have that mode further calibrated? You'd think THX/Lucasfilms knows more than your typical calibrator. Did your calibrator actually calibrate your THX mode to THX standards, or to something else?

Aren't the ISF modes intended for custom calibration? I would NOT want to have the factory modes messed with if I couldn't easily undo the changes myself.


----------



## tripplej

Hi All,

I am interested in the 60 inch elite and wanted to ask, I know it comes with two 3d glasses. If I wanted more, do I have to get sharp elite glasses? Or can another manufacturer 3d glasses work?


----------



## Robert Zohn

trippiej, very good question; we tested every available 3D glasses on every TV in our shoot-out and for the Elite it's defiantly best to use the original Sharp Elite glasses. 

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

Robert Zohn said:


> trippiej, very good question; we tested every available 3D glasses on every TV in our shoot-out and for the Elite it's defiantly best to use the original Sharp Elite glasses.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the information. I see in the manual to contact Elite for ordering more glasses. Thanks once again!


----------



## tripplej

While reading the manual on page 82, it mentions when mounting the unit, it says to use their wall mount bracket (AN-52AG4).. Is this required or just a suggestion? Meaning, any other mount from another manufacturer can be used?

--> "This TV should be mounted on the wall unit with the wall mount bracket AN-52AG4 (SHARP). The use of other wall mount brackets may result in an unstable installation and may cause serious injuries."


----------



## Robert Zohn

tripplej said:


> Thanks for the information. I see in the manual to contact Elite for ordering more glasses. Thanks once again!


Or call your favorite retailer 

-Robert



tripplej said:


> While reading the manual on page 82, it mentions when mounting the unit, it says to use their wall mount bracket (AN-52AG4).. Is this required or just a suggestion? Meaning, any other mount from another manufacturer can be used?
> 
> --> "This TV should be mounted on the wall unit with the wall mount bracket AN-52AG4 (SHARP). The use of other wall mount brackets may result in an unstable installation and may cause serious injuries."


Just a recommendation, however, professional wall mounting is suggested as well as a proper wall mount. You should hit the center of two wood studs.

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

Thanks once again!

Yes. I would never put it up myself. Will have professionals do the work.. 



thanks,


----------



## JClam

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Can you simply reset your THX mode to factory defaults so you can get a better picture, or was the use of a hidden service menu required to calibrate THX mode? THX mode is supposedly certified to meet THX guidelines and standards, so why would you want to have that mode further calibrated? You'd think THX/Lucasfilms knows more than your typical calibrator. Did your calibrator actually calibrate your THX mode to THX standards, or to something else?
> 
> Aren't the ISF modes intended for custom calibration? I would NOT want to have the factory modes messed with if I couldn't easily undo the changes myself.


Sorry if I confused you, the THX mode is factory set, the isf day and night were calibrated. All 3 share the same unsarurated color issue that was also present on the 60 at the shootout. I'm hopeful it will be addressed with the cyan fix.


----------



## Robert Zohn

JClam, I'm told the error in decoding the secondary teal color and under saturated green are related. I've been in close contact with the top exec's at Sharp and they are working on it. A very special thanks goes to our expert calibration team, Kevin Miller, D-Nice and Ed Johnson for discovering this and to the Sharp execs for having the dedication to perfection in putting all of the effort into this that it takes to fix the decoding rec 709 error.

Also Ed Johnson came in on his own time after the shoot-out to prepare a detailed engineering report on exactly where and how the decoding shifts. He measured the color decoding at every IRE step and wrote a very detailed technical report to help the Sharp engineers diagnosis and fix this issue.

I would say we'll likely to see a firmware upgrade within a month to address this.

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

Robert Zohn said:


> JClam, I'm told the error in decoding the secondary teal color and under saturated green are related. I've been in close contact with the top exec's at Sharp and they are working on it.
> 
> I would say we'll likely to see a firmware upgrade within a month to address this.
> 
> -Robert


That sounds great. Hopefully the firmware upgrade will happen before or during the holiday season. I am personally debating between the elite and the upcoming Sony XBR-65HX929 so if the firmware appears, I will lean toward the elite.. 

thanks


----------



## JClam

Robert Zohn said:


> JClam, I'm told the error in decoding the secondary teal color and under saturated green are related. I've been in close contact with the top exec's at Sharp and they are working on it. A very special thanks goes to our expert calibration team, Kevin Miller, D-Nice and Ed Johnson for discovering this and to the Sharp execs for having the dedication to perfection in putting all of the effort into this that it takes to fix the decoding rec 709 error.
> 
> Also Ed Johnson came in on his own time after the shoot-out to prepare a detailed engineering report on exactly where and how the decoding shifts. He measured the color decoding at every IRE step and wrote a very detailed technical report to help the Sharp engineers diagnosis and fix this issue.
> 
> I would say we'll likely to see a firmware upgrade within a month to address this.
> 
> -Robert


thanks Robert, please keep us posted when you learn more.


----------



## Radtech51

Hutchinshouse said:


> Got my PRO-60X5FD on order today. Delivery on Monday. I cannot wait! :T


Grats buddy! :sn:


----------



## tripplej

Just a quick question.. 

While reading the various forums, I have come across several elite owners who have had pixel issues? I don't think this is common but wanted to check with owners here.. Did you notice any pixel issues?

If you do have pixel issues, did Sharp replace your set?

thanks


----------



## Robert Zohn

To date, of the thirty or so Elite TVs we have sold and inspected I have only seen one with stuck pixels. It was a 70" and I took it home. It is wall mounted in my living room and our viewing distance is 23' so we can't see the stuck pixels, it has three all on the left side near the top of screen. 

I guess we've been lucky as I have read of one owner on another site that received three TVs so far all with dead or stuck pixels.

I can tell you this is truly unusual as Sharp hand picks these panels and only selects the very best panels with no dead or stuck pixels and the ones that deliver the highest contrast ration ans screen uniformity.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

tripplej said:


> Just a quick question..
> 
> While reading the various forums, I have come across several elite owners who have had pixel issues? I don't think this is common but wanted to check with owners here.. Did you notice any pixel issues?
> 
> If you do have pixel issues, did Sharp replace your set?
> 
> thanks


No it's not common to my knowledge, nether my 70" or my other family members 70" has had any pixel issues. The only thing I can think of is if you have your ELITE set to "Dot by Dot" in View mode and didn't know any better you might think you see something on the outer edge of the picture, but I'm Asuming people know better. :rofl:


----------



## tripplej

Robert Zohn said:


> To date, of the thirty or so Elite TVs we have sold and inspected I have only seen one with stuck pixels. It was a 70" and I took it home. It is wall mounted in my living room and our viewing distance is 23' so we can't see the stuck pixels, it has three all on the left side near the top of screen.
> 
> I guess we've been lucky as I have read of one owner on another site that received three TVs so far all with dead or stuck pixels.
> 
> I can tell you this is truly unusual as Sharp hand picks these panels and only selects the very best panels with no dead or stuck pixels and the ones that deliver the highest contrast ration ans screen uniformity.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the details. If by chance I order one and am unlucky and get pixel issues, how hard or easy is it to exchange it? Is it even worth the trouble of an exchange?


----------



## tripplej

thanks for the info.. I suspect less then 10% of folks owning the elite have pixel issues. I just know that if I found an issue, it would drive me crazy especially after spending so much $$$ on it.....


----------



## Robert Zohn

Supply is very strong now so expect your favorite retailers to begin discounting now. We just received a large allocation today of 60" and 70" Elites. Anyone on the fence, this is your moment to strike.

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

tripplej said:


> Just a quick question..
> 
> While reading the various forums, I have come across several elite owners who have had pixel issues? I don't think this is common but wanted to check with owners here.. Did you notice any pixel issues?
> 
> If you do have pixel issues, did Sharp replace your set?
> 
> thanks


I am a very happy owner of a 70" Elite and do not have any pixel issues that I can see from where I sit. I see no point in microscopically examining the panel for dead pixels if they aren't visible from a normal viewing distance. If you sit close to the unit for gaming or computer use, then yes a dead pixel may drive you crazy. I sit about 8'-10' away. Also remember this... if your screen is perfect in every other way except for a dead pixel or two, pick your battles. A new set may have fewer or no dead pixels, but may have other issues. No unit is perfect.


----------



## tripplej

thanks for the reply. For gaming or pc connection the pixel issue would be a concern. Although, if Sharp is hand picking these items (as was mentioned earlier in the thread), I would expect no pixel issues. Guess it shows up after they hand pick them..


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

tripplej said:


> thanks for the reply. For gaming or pc connection the pixel issue would be a concern. Although, if Sharp is hand picking these items (as was mentioned earlier in the thread), I would expect no pixel issues. Guess it shows up after they hand pick them..


You would think, right? Although I have to tell you that Elite's statement of "hand picking" the LCD panels is questionable to me, and here's why... when one of the Elite reps was asked during the shootout "what happens to the rejected LCD panels", both Elite officials looked at each other and said they didn't know. Um, how can you not know? Sharp also sells a 70" non-Elite model, so it's reasonable to presume that model will get the panels not picked for the Elites. Sharp doesn't make any other 70" sets. It sounded to me like the Elite boys were playing dumb on purpose, which makes me wonder what actual standards are being used to "hand pick" these panels. That or they didn't want to diss their sister product for getting "rejected" panels that didn't meet Elite standards. Or, maybe they are hand picking at random? Technically that's still hand picked, right?

And before everyone jumps all over me, I do own this TV and I love it. However, I am an analytical person and I'd like to know what their "hand picking" standards are? For instance, an LCD display will pass Apple Computer QC if it has fewer than 3 dead pixels in a cluster. I would assume that Sharp has similar standards for Elite. I doubt very highly that their standard is "no dead pixels". I just don't think they will get high enough yields for this. Would someone who has inside information from Elite be able to expand on this? What is their QC process?


----------



## tripplej

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Would someone who has inside information from Elite be able to expand on this? What is their QC process?


I believe all Elite and potential Elite owners would be interested in this topic especially considering some owners have seen pixel issues and even new potential owners might be seeing them as well.

"Hand picking" maybe just a marketing trick (i.e. sharp/elite employees on the factory line "hand pick" each one or every other one or every 5th one, etc., just to give the unit a basic once over look prior to shipping) but it would be good to get the actual definition of what they mean by "hand picking" from those who may know..



Who knows maybe the hand pick is done when it is off the line and powered off and just someone walking around the unit and saying, yeah, that one looks good and moves it to get boxed..

lol


----------



## jmf67

I too, am a very happy owner of the 70x5fd. I have had it now for a little over a month and not a day goes
by that I am not in awe of the picture. My previous tv was the pioneer elite 110fd. While I loved that set, I wanted a bigger screen and I did not want to sacrifice on picture quality. Now I am waiting for elite to release the firmware upgrade and then I will have Kevin Miller come calibrate the tv. Considering how great my tv looks uncalibrated, it's hard to imagine it what it will look like when it is professionally calibrated. Elite techs...hurry up and release the firmware!!!

I purchased this tv from Robert and Wendy at Value Electronics. If you want a great price, but more importantly, great care and service, then look no further then Value. They will bend over backwards to make sure you are educated and happy with your purchase. And they will always be there...not like the sales people (who seem to come and go) from a big dept. store. I had a problem with a pioneer elite receiver I purchased from Robert at Value. But with Robert, it was no problem at all. He took care of things immediately and hassle free. I can't help but think what a pain in the butt it would have been if I purchased it from bestbuy. THANK YOU ROBERT & WENDY!!


----------



## tripplej

jmf67 said:


> I too, am a very happy owner of the 70x5fd. I have had it now for a little over a month and not a day goes
> by that I am not in awe of the picture.


congrats!

How far way do you sit when watching? 12 ft? 10 ft?


----------



## jmf67

I sit 10ft - 12ft away...depending on which seat. My tv is also on an articulating arm, so I am able to turn to proper viewing angle depending on where I sit.


----------



## lynskyn

Just turned on my Elite70 and a new firmware update is downloading. I hope it has the color fix.


----------



## Glenee

Robert,
What is in the new Firmware 214 ....... Update for 70 " Elites being Downloaded to our Displays Today ?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Three things. First, fix is for USB playback issues. Second, is to upgrade Skype to the lates version. Third, is an upgrade for Closed Caption.

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

check this review out.. http://www.hereshow.ca//Hands-onReviews/Hands-onReview:ElitePRO-60X5FD60-inchHDTV.html 

and i like this quote from the article --> 

"They'll buy it for its video quality with 2D and 3D content. If you're looking for a great picture, and you can afford the substantial price tag, you needn't hesitate. That said, other premium TVs we've reviewed recently cost considerably less. They deliver great pictures as well, though not quite on the level of these Elite screens. *These are the best TVs on the planet right now."*


----------



## Robert Zohn

This agrees with Kevin Miller's 8/8/11 review, which was the very first published professional review and the findings of our 10/8 - 9/11 shoot-out.

-Robert


----------



## Glenee

Robert Zohn said:


> Three things. First, fix is for USB playback issues. Second, is to upgrade Skype to the lates version. Third, is an upgrade for Closed Caption.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks Robert !


----------



## Radtech51

tripplej said:


> check this review out.. http://www.hereshow.ca//Hands-onReviews/Hands-onReview:ElitePRO-60X5FD60-inchHDTV.html
> 
> and i like this quote from the article -->
> 
> "They'll buy it for its video quality with 2D and 3D content. If you're looking for a great picture, and you can afford the substantial price tag, you needn't hesitate. That said, other premium TVs we've reviewed recently cost considerably less. They deliver great pictures as well, though not quite on the level of these Elite screens. *These are the best TVs on the planet right now."*


Nice review. :sn:


----------



## tazz3

I saw the PRO-70X5FD display in a local store last week with transfomers 3 playing what a nice tv.
if i ever hit the lotto i would buy one lol


----------



## tripplej

tazz3 said:


> I saw the PRO-70X5FD display in a local store last week with transfomers 3 playing what a nice tv.
> if i ever hit the lotto i would buy one lol


You never know.. Around Superbowl weekend, the prices may drop to a point where more folks can buy it! (at least I am wishing so)..


----------



## Robert Zohn

I hope you are right, ^^ but I would not expect to see it happen on this TV. Sharp has very limited production scheduled and demand is much higher than anticipated. 

We are able to buy direct from Sharp and through several distributors and just received we enough to fill our backlog and this week we ware able to buy enough to have excess inventory for the first time.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

I never thought I would say this, but my 70 inch Elite will be on its way towards the end of next week. Thank you to none other than Robert who is quite simply one of the best business owners I have met and a truly great guy.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Ok, had my Elite for a few days now. Simply wow! All of my movies look remastered. My 8 year old boy said it's like looking out a window. I watched Tombstone today, it never looked better. This TV is simply amazing.


----------



## Homethrstud

Ugg well I'm not trying to offend anyone in this thread, but I auditioned a 70inch elite the other day and did not walk away impressed. The display was set up in a mildly darkened part of best buys Magnolia section with other top end TVs Behind the display setup. I'm hoping that the tv was not calibrated correctly because as I compared the tv with a Samsung the Elite's black levels were washed out with a hint of gray. The colors did not pop and the Samsung put it to shame in color richness. I'm not even a big fan of Samsung either. I prefer the picture on the Panasonic 65' VT30 plasma over any of the Samsung's. The Panasonic was mounted on the other side of the elite so I could not compare them side by side. There was also a ton of brightness pumping when going from dark to light scenes. the amount of detail in the darker sections of scenes was pretty low also.

I guess I'm just a plasma guy, but this tv has a pretty hefty price tag and that's what did the pioneer Kuro in was the inflated price tag. With the current economy I would say it's going to be a tuff sell to charge 8k for a LED. I hope they plan on giving a plasma version a go but I could only imagine they would have to have a big sticker to hold the price of a elite plasma.


----------



## The Executor

It truly is an amazing TV. I was lucky enough to get it a couple of weeks ago and I still marvel at the superior picture quality. The Elite truly deserves its name. Also the service Robert provides is above and beyond my expectations. I purchased my set from Value Electronics and it was bar none, the best experience I had with any retailer. Thanks Robert!


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Homethrstud said:


> Ugg well I'm not trying to offend anyone in this thread, but I auditioned a 70inch elite the other day and did not walk away impressed. The display was set up in a mildly darkened part of best buys Magnolia section with other top end TVs Behind the display setup. I'm hoping that the tv was not calibrated correctly because as I compared the tv with a Samsung the Elite's black levels were washed out with a hint of gray. The colors did not pop and the Samsung put it to shame in color richness. I'm not even a big fan of Samsung either. I prefer the picture on the Panasonic 65' VT30 plasma over any of the Samsung's. The Panasonic was mounted on the other side of the elite so I could not compare them side by side. There was also a ton of brightness pumping when going from dark to light scenes. the amount of detail in the darker sections of scenes was pretty low also.
> 
> I guess I'm just a plasma guy, but this tv has a pretty hefty price tag and that's what did the pioneer Kuro in was the inflated price tag. With the current economy I would say it's going to be a tuff sell to charge 8k for a LED. I hope they plan on giving a plasma version a go but I could only imagine they would have to have a big sticker to hold the price of a elite plasma.


It has the best black levels of any LCD or plasma to date as proven by the shootout. Either someone messed with the settings or it's defective. I would not settle on one store to check the screen if you had that experience. It would be a disservice to you. If you honestly wanted to possibly get the display, you'd check another store. The TV is a no brainer outside of the price tag.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Homethrstud said:


> I'm hoping that the tv was not calibrated correctly because as I compared the tv with a Samsung the Elite's black levels were washed out with a hint of gray.


Whatever you saw was either defective or had screwed up settings. Blacks go to virtually zero, and in a completely dark room 99% of the time the blacks will be indistinguishable from the blackness of the room around the TV. I suggest you view the TV at a home theater store that knows what it's doing.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct as usual AZREOSpecialist ^^. The Elite TV have the deepest black level of all 2011/12 TV on the market.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Hutchinshouse said:


> Ok, had my Elite for a few days now. Simply wow! All of my movies look remastered. My 8 year old boy said it's like looking out a window. I watched Tombstone today, it never looked better. This TV is simply amazing.


Awesome buddy! Please put up some pictures if you can and Big Grats on your ELITE my friend! :sn:


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> It has the best black levels of any LCD or plasma to date as proven by the shootout. Either someone messed with the settings or it's defective. I would not settle on one store to check the screen if you had that experience. It would be a disservice to you. If you honestly wanted to possibly get the display, you'd check another store. The TV is a no brainer outside of the price tag.


Correct, and I'd bet someone had disabled the Local-Dimming only god knows why. However even with Local-Dimming disabled and the settings messed up the ELITE should have still looked better. So I'm thinking it was possibly a defective ELITE, this just doesn't make any sence. :scratch:


----------



## Homethrstud

Robert Zohn said:


> Correct as usual AZREOSpecialist ^^. The Elite TV have the deepest black level of all 2011/12 TV on the market.
> 
> -Robert


Well from what I witnessed it was far from the deepest black levels around. I still stand by my original assessment on the steep sticker price. It's a shame that when someone see's something that's not so perfect they are told to go to another store.


----------



## Spiff69

Homethrstud said:


> Well from what I witnessed it was far from the deepest black levels around. I still stand by my original assessment on the steep sticker price. It's a shame that when someone see's something that's not so perfect they are told to go to another store.


If "by a shame" you mean that it's a shame that a store can display a consistently excellent television so poorly as to display it the way that you described it, then yes it is.


----------



## JimP

Homethrstud said:


> Well from what I witnessed it was far from the deepest black levels around. I still stand by my original assessment on the steep sticker price. It's a shame that when someone see's something that's not so perfect they are told to go to another store.


Its ashame that you assume that the display was setup correctly and that you're being played when others suggest that you find another demo. Unless you just got into home theater, you should already know how a change in one or two settings can easily make any display look terrible.

As for the sticker price, I happen to agree with you. I doubt that the pricing will stay up. Actually, it's probably good that it started as high as it did as it'll give us some more time to evaluate the display while the price drops to more reasonable levels.


----------



## mechman

Let's keep the personal attacks off of the forum. 

HTS Rules:

*Please be polite, courteous and respectful of other members, as well as all products and services discussed. There is no need to be condescending or overly critical, not everyone will be as smart as the next person. If you can help, please do so, but remember, we all start learning somewhere and none of us are perfect. If you are the home theater, audio or video aficionado king daddy audiophile, we are glad to have you around, but please be humble and considerate to those of less fortunate knowledge. If you call a member dumb, stupid or an idiot (or anything resembling those) you will be on your way to being banned. Something to remember is unless we are the smartest human being on the planet, there is always going to be someone smarter than us... and we are always going to be "less" smart than at least a few others. Therefore, if you just absolutely must call someone stupid, consider looking in the mirror and go at it all you want... but keep it off this forum.*


----------



## tripplej

Looks like the elite got another award --- ranked 1st in picture quality!

2nd went to P55VT30 and 3rd went to PN59D7000

http://tv.bestcovery.com/sharp-elite-pro-70x5fd-led-hdtv

"Simply put, the Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD is a 'shot across the bow' for serious videophiles who have previously dismissed LCD HDTVs as 'oversized computer monitors'. The world-beating performance, top-notch features, fantastic customer service, solid build quality, and uncompromising specifications all come together in one (extremely expensive) package to show what real HDTVs are all about."


----------



## Robert Zohn

That is *exactly* how our ranking came out ^^ two weeks ago at our shoot-out event. 

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Just spoke with the execs at Sharp for a follow-up on our requests from the shoot-out regarding the the color decoding issue and discrete codes for power "on" and power "off" and was told the following.

1. They are finalizing the codes for power "off" and power "on" and I'll post the link to the FTP site once it is ready. Should be within a few days.

2. Japan is working with the USA engineers and we should see this firmware fix with a few weeks if not sooner. 

All in all sounds like good news. Stay tuned for the links to these and other updates.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert 

sounds extremely encouraging. thanks for keeping us posted my friend


----------



## Homethrstud

Anyways I returned to best buy tonight and I was told the set was NOT calibrated. They also said the were NOT going to calibrate it. 

Out of the box the TVs picture is terrible. 

For the people telling me to go some where else. Best buy is the only place to go. All the Home Theater places around me deal with "REAL" theater equipment as in projectors.

On a side not they had the new 80' non 3d Sharp in stock. Man it is big, I showed it to my wife and she told me to just get a projector.


----------



## tripplej

According to Sharp's press release, (http://www.sharpusa.com/AboutSharp/...11/August/2011_08_04_Elite_Press_Release.aspx) they state the following:

"Elite LCD HDTVs will only be available at select high-end retailers and via custom installation companies that have the *knowledge and experience to represent the finest TVs on the market*. "

If I were Sharp, I would go to each store and ensure the elite's were displayed at it's optimal setting to help sales go up! 

Granted, this is what I would do if I were sharp but they may not deem it necessary and rely on the retailer which I am sure some retailers will make it look great but for the other retailers who will not make it look great, they (Sharp) take a big gamble on it since the average consumer will just look at the elite's and see the price tag and if it is not displayed properly say the price doesn't justify the unit and move on to another brand/model...... Just my 2 cents..


----------



## Robert Zohn

tripplej, I like your idea and Sharp does have a good sized team of Nationwide trainers that visit authorized dealers to educate them on the attributes of the Elite TVs and ensure they are set-up properly. More importantly, these TV deliver a very bright and very deep black level so they should look fantastic under any ambient room lighting conditions. 

However, none of this stops store clerks and or customers from playing with the remote or less than honest retailers who want to favor a particular TV. 

I don't think there is any easy answer, but I would like to notify Sharp of the offending store and have it rectified so the Elite TV delivers the superior image quality it can perform.

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

tripplej said:


> Looks like the elite got another award --- ranked 1st in picture quality!
> 
> 2nd went to P55VT30 and 3rd went to PN59D7000
> 
> http://tv.bestcovery.com/sharp-elite-pro-70x5fd-led-hdtv
> 
> "Simply put, the Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD is a 'shot across the bow' for serious videophiles who have previously dismissed LCD HDTVs as 'oversized computer monitors'. The world-beating performance, top-notch features, fantastic customer service, solid build quality, and uncompromising specifications all come together in one (extremely expensive) package to show what real HDTVs are all about."


But... but... but what about the majorly incredible distorted way out of proportion "color issues"? ROTFL...


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Homethrstud said:


> Anyways I returned to best buy tonight and I was told the set was NOT calibrated. They also said the were NOT going to calibrate it.
> 
> Out of the box the TVs picture is terrible.
> 
> For the people telling me to go some where else. Best buy is the only place to go. All the Home Theater places around me deal with "REAL" theater equipment as in projectors.
> 
> On a side not they had the new 80' non 3d Sharp in stock. Man it is big, I showed it to my wife and she told me to just get a projector.


Your above message clearly shows a bias towards projectors, so I suggest you go and get yourself a projector since that is "real" theater equipment. However, unless you reset the picture settings to factory default, you cannot claim it was "out of the box". Further, you didn't answer anyone's question on what picture mode it was set to or whether local dimming (via IVT) was on or off. I can futz with the settings on any top-of-the-line TV and make it look worse than a TV costing half as much. But judging by your posts, I highly recommend you hold yourself to a higher standard.


----------



## Homethrstud

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Your above message clearly shows a bias towards projectors, so I suggest you go and get yourself a projector since that is "real" theater equipment. However, unless you reset the picture settings to factory default, you cannot claim it was "out of the box". Further, you didn't answer anyone's question on what picture mode it was set to or whether local dimming (via IVT) was on or off. I can futz with the settings on any top-of-the-line TV and make it look worse than a TV costing half as much. But judging by your posts, I highly recommend you hold yourself to a higher standard.


I don't know about you but when I bring my wife to Best Buy she just wants to leave. Getting the people at Best Buy to go find the remote and all of that takes time. Meanwhile my wife is standing there telling me let's go. Yes real home theaters use projectors, hell my living room tv is is a 67' I sure wouldn't use a 70' for a theater. Maybe some people would who knows.

That's off subject here. The FACT is no matter if you like or not I'm talking about my local display of the 8k Elite. I'm sorry if you don't like that I said it looks like . I WAS told that it's straight out of the box with NO calibration. I don't know what mode it's in, and due to the wife I didn't have time to ask. You guys take this to the heart like you designed the tv. I already said that it maybe defective. Don't get me wrong it looks ok, but it should make my jaw drop for 8k like the Panasonic 65 vt30 did. I want to see it at it's full potential before I would even consider a purchase. My wife will not let me get anything smaller than what we have right now, so this display is on my list. I would be looking at the 80' but it is non 3d. 3G is not that important but it better have it for 5k or 8k for that matter. I know the Elite is 3d.

Again I am just stating FACTs I didn't come here to put the tv down or troll or whatever. I'm simply discussing the Elite that I auditioned at my local store. Fact is I should be wowed but I'm not at this point.


----------



## tripplej

Robert Zohn said:


> tripplej, I like your idea and Sharp does have a good sized team of Nationwide trainers that visit authorized dealers to educate them on the attributes of the Elite TVs and ensure they are set-up properly.


Back while in college, I used to work weekends at a big name national electronic retailer (name with-held) and I didn't work in the tv department but I worked in the computer department and every now and then several manufacturer's (canon, epson, hp, compaq, etc.) came in and held demonstrations for their products (computers, printers, etc.) Of course, this was all advertised in advance at the front of the store (company x will be here on some date) so that consumers would know when they would be available for the demonstration and answer questions, etc. 

I always thought this was a good way for the company to show case their products and for consumers who were interested to ask questions. Also, I must admit, the manufacturers made sure their products were at the best performance levels prior to the demonstration..

Again, I didn't work in the tv department so not sure if that happens there but it would be good for Sharp to try this..

Whenever they (the manufacturers) did this, their products always flew off the shelves! A gain for them and for the consumer!

Just my 2 cents!


----------



## tripplej

AZREOSpecialist said:


> But... but... but what about the majorly incredible distorted way out of proportion "color issues"? ROTFL...


I guess for that particular reviewer, it was the best even with that color issue when compared to the others they reviewed.


----------



## mechman

Gentleman,

We are starting to walk down that path again. :foottap: Let's cease at this time, shall we?

Homethrstud - you've made your point. There is no need to defend your views on what you saw. It is what it is.

AZREOSpecialist - there's no need to belittle his views. Questioning is fine as long as it doesn't become disrespectful.


----------



## aleicgrant

lets say we leave the avs tones to avs. Leave the wife at home for any major electronics viewing or purchasing


----------



## Homethrstud

aleicgrant said:


> lets say we leave the avs tones to avs. Leave the wife at home for any major electronics viewing or purchasing


Well the viewing at least.


----------



## tripplej

From reading this forum as well as others, I know that Sharp is working on the color issue.. 

But, I wanted to find out about "local dimming pulsing issues??" that some owners had and mentioned in another forum - not sure if it was mentioned here as well.....

Any owners here experience this? local dimming pulsing?? 

I don't own an Elite yet! but as a future owner, I would like to get all the issues addressed prior to my future purchase!



If nobody here knows about this. I can do some research and gather the details and paste it here ...


Let me know..

thanks.


----------



## Robert Zohn

I very carefully watched CSI and NCSI (which is the programming that was reported to cause the most flickering in the background) on my personal 70" Elite and our 60" and 70" store demos and I do not see any flickering of pulsating in any of the scenes backgrounds. Nor do I see any pulsating or flickering on any BD or DIRECTV programming. 

I have read about two users comments on the anomaly, but as you can see no one else is experiencing this on their Elite TVs. Can this be something that is being introduced from the electrical 60 cycles or another source that can create interference?

Also we had 70 experts at our shoot-out who very carefully evaluated the Elite against all other flagship TVs and no one noticed any pulsating or flickering in background images.

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

Robert Zohn said:


> I have read about two users comments on the anomaly, but as you can see no one else is experiencing this on their Elite TVs. Can this be something that is being introduced from the electrical 60 cycles or another source that can create interference?
> -Robert


Thanks Robert for you inputs.

Would a Power Conditioner help to resolve this "pulsing" issue?? I have been reading about folks using this to control the "noise"..

(this may be off topic -- but for me not knowing anything about power conditioners -- what are the good one's, any recommendations??)

thanks.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Furman, Monster, APC and Panamax are my favorite brands. Each company makes many models and levels of performance and protection. 

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

Robert Zohn said:


> Furman, Monster, APC and Panamax are my favorite brands. Each company makes many models and levels of performance and protection.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the recommendations! I will take a look.

Hopefully the pulsing issue can be controlled by the power conditioners..

thanks.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

This flickering issue is interesting. I'm trying to understand more about your issue. I think I may have noticed your issue if what I've personally seen is what you're describing. First off, let me be clear, it's very very rare I see it. I'd say the frequency could maybe once every couple of weeks. It may depend on the content as well. Anyway, I see basically a white like flash usually in cut scenes where the next scene has more black in the picture.. It may be a setting I have on as well. I'm not sure. It almost looks like the screen tries to catch up on black areas. It may be a local dimming issue?

On another note, does anyone use a Nintendo Wii? I have the other two systems, but have an issue viewing content on the Nintendo. Basically, the left and right sides on the 70", maybe 6" to the bezel on each side where the image is being stretched. It's rather annoying. Does anyone have an idea? I have the component cables to bring it up to a whopping 480p lol it looks fine on my older Samsung 1080p LCD which is a 46". Any ideas? Thanks!


----------



## Robert Zohn

tripplej said:


> Thanks for the recommendations! I will take a look.
> 
> Hopefully the pulsing issue can be controlled by the power conditioners..
> 
> thanks.


Very few homes need power conditioning. A high-quality surge protector power strip is typically okay in most homes. 

-Robert


----------



## petekal6

First post here, and I'm happy to say I'm joining the Elite family! I spoke to Robert a lot last week, and he was very helpful and answered all of my questions. Finally pulled the trigger on Friday and it should be shipping this week! 

I can't wait and I'm very excited. Thanks to Robert for all your help.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

petekal6 said:


> First post here, and I'm happy to say I'm joining the Elite family! I spoke to Robert a lot last week, and he was very helpful and answered all of my questions. Finally pulled the trigger on Friday and it should be shipping this week!
> 
> I can't wait and I'm very excited. Thanks to Robert for all your help.


Welcome to the Elite club! ;-)


----------



## trcnet

Hello all,

First congratulations Pete. The Elite Pro-X5 is phenomenal!!! I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. I also wanted to mention I've I owned my Elite Pro for a little over a month now and have been actively looking to find the pulsating that has been reported by 2 other Elite owners. Happy to say my Elite does not have this issue.

Hi Robert and Wendy, hope all is going well and many many thanks for recommending this TV to me. Just blows me away! Please do keep us up to date on the color fix. Do you think Elite will make the update software update available to us in the way of a USB storage device? My TV is not connected to my computer and I'm afraid I'm not computer savvy enough to know or understand how to download the update myself when it becomes available. Thanks in advance for all your help Robert.

best,
Tom


----------



## Glenee

Tom,
You have several options. Yes it will be available VIA Download to a Thumbdrive and then uploadable to the Tv VIA the USB Port. If you have any doubts, one of the ways to do it, would be to order a long 50 ft Cat 6 cable from Monoprice.com. Then use one Leg off your router to the TV'S internet port and let the Tv do it. If you have wireless capabilities in the house set the Tv Up for wireless internet connection using DHCP it will do everything. 
I think the last TWO recommendations are the Safest.


----------



## Spiff69

Getting my set this week! Can't wait - I'm dubbing this week "Elite Week"!


----------



## mechman

I do hope that the folks who have this pulse problem have called Sharp. Given the style of support given for these sets, I think I would be on the phone with them first.


----------



## aleicgrant

another satisfied VE customer. not shocking to say the least. welcome to the club. I may finally be a card carrying member myself very soon


----------



## darklandz

Sorry guys, haven't had the chance to read through the entire thread but has anyone replaced this with a Pioneer 9G plasma?
If so, how does it compare?


----------



## mechman

darklandz said:


> Sorry guys, haven't had the chance to read through the entire thread but has anyone replaced this with a Pioneer 9G plasma?
> If so, how does it compare?


I think you mean "replace a Pioneer 9G plasma with this", right? :T Welcome to HTS. :wave:


----------



## dsskid

Robert has.

Based on what I saw at the VE shootout...IMO, aside from the cyan color issue, and LCD LCD LED inherent off-axis issue, I would say it stacks up very well against the Pioneer Kuros.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Yes, John is correct; I upgraded my PRO-141FD with the new Elite 70" and love the new Elite TV. I know of several other a/v enthusiasts who have also upgraded (or own) PRO-151FDs to the new Elite TV and are also very satisfied with the performance of the new Elite. Ken Ross is one of these folks.

On another matter, I just received the discrete codes, but this is a final Beta and is exclusively available to HTS members who PM me with their email address. It's a FTP file with special instructions. 

This offer is not limited to my customers, but is only available to members of HTS. Membership does have its privileges. 

-Robert


----------



## jmf67

darklandz said:


> Sorry guys, haven't had the chance to read through the entire thread but has anyone replaced this with a Pioneer 9G plasma?
> If so, how does it compare?


I replaced my Pioneer Elite Pro 110FD with the 70" Elite. I'm waiting for elite to release the firmware update and then I will have it calibrated by Kevin Miller. I have had the tv for almost two months. I am blown away by this
tv every time I turn it on. I can't get over how amazing the picture looks out of the box. With the picture looking this good out of the box, it's hard to imagine what it will look like when Kevin works his magic.


----------



## davisd

trcnet said:


> Do you think Elite will make the update software update available to us in the way of a USB storage device? My TV is not connected to my computer and I'm afraid I'm not computer savvy enough to know or understand how to download the update myself when it becomes available.


Another thing to note is the Elite has 802.11n, so if you have wi-fi in the house, you're set. You can also download the firmware updates from elitelcdtv website under the Full Specs and Downloads section and put it on a USB key as you said.


----------



## jadedinc

I am sure it has been discussed before, so sorry in advance. I am wanting to purchase the pro-70x. I have found quite a few good deals on the net. The lowest I found was 6100 with free shipping. I however would like to purchase from a reputable dealer. I am extending my budget to get this tv so going over 6k is not to much of an option (at least thats what the wife said). I am sure I am dreaming but I was wondering if some knew of a place selling tv this cheap? If so I would love to purchase asap. 

Ps going to the 60 isn't an option as that is what I am replacing..

Thanks for the help....


----------



## darklandz

Surely with this being an LED/LCD it's going to suffer from some sort of clouding/backlight uniformity issues.
I'm yet to see any LED TV that's looked "good" to my eyes.


----------



## petekal6

darklandz said:


> Surely with this being an LED/LCD it's going to suffer from some sort of clouding/backlight uniformity issues.
> I'm yet to see any LED TV that's looked "good" to my eyes.


Thats what makes the Elite special. Most sets don't suffer from these issues.


----------



## trcnet

Just want to thank Glen and Davisd for their reply.

best,
Tom


----------



## Ken Ross

Robert Zohn said:


> Yes, John is correct; I upgraded my PRO-141FD with the new Elite 70" and love the new Elite TV. I know of several other a/v enthusiasts who have also upgraded (or own) PRO-151FDs to the new Elite TV and are also very satisfied with the performance of the new Elite. Ken Ross is one of these folks.
> 
> On another matter, I just received the discrete codes, but this is a final Beta and is exclusively available to HTS members who PM me with their email address. It's a FTP file with special instructions.
> 
> This offer is not limited to my customers, but is only available to members of HTS. Membership does have its privileges.
> 
> -Robert


Yes indeed, as Robert stated, I have a Pro151 and actually prefer the Elite's picture to my beloved Kuro! My 151 is kind of sitting there, sad, gathering dust. 

A big thank you to Robert for turning me on to the Elite!


----------



## Robert Zohn

JClam said:


> My ISF calibrated 70" was purchased at VE and delivered Friday 9/16 by 2 of Robert's best guys. Installation took some time because of the complexity and quantity of of my new equipment, wiring and speaker setup, furniture and stand construction etc, but once we got past all that things were a snap. The picture popped up, we switched it to ISF night and there it was, the picture I've been dreaming about. Ed Johnson did the calibration btw, kudos to him.
> 
> All in all, I'm extremely happy with my purchase so far and cannot, repeat cannot say enough positive things about the quality of the knowledge, expertise, patience and service I received from ValueElectronics...Robert, Wendy and their staff are simply amazing. What a great purchase experience.
> 
> Jim


Thank you Jim we enjoyed getting to know you and the Mrs.

Enjoy!

-Robert



petekal6 said:


> First post here, and I'm happy to say I'm joining the Elite family! *I spoke to Robert a lot last week, and he was very helpful and answered all of my questions. Finally pulled the trigger on Friday and it should be shipping this week!
> 
> I can't wait and I'm very excited. Thanks to Robert for all your help. *


Thank you Pete for your kind words. You'll see my daughter this Saturday with your new Elite TV!

-Robert



trcnet said:


> Hello all,
> 
> First congratulations Pete. The Elite Pro-X5 is phenomenal!!! I hope you enjoy yours as much as I do mine. I also wanted to mention I've I owned my Elite Pro for a little over a month now and have been actively looking to find the pulsating that has been reported by 2 other Elite owners. Happy to say my Elite does not have this issue.
> 
> *Hi Robert and Wendy, hope all is going well and many many thanks for recommending this TV to me. Just blows me away!* Please do keep us up to date on the color fix. Do you think Elite will make the update software update available to us in the way of a USB storage device? My TV is not connected to my computer and I'm afraid I'm not computer savvy enough to know or understand how to download the update myself when it becomes available. Thanks in advance for all your help Robert.
> 
> best,
> Tom


Thanks Tom, we enjoyed working with you!

-Robert



aleicgrant said:


> *another satisfied VE customer. not shocking to say the least. *welcome to the club. I may finally be a card carrying member myself very soon


Thank you Aleic, and I'm proud to say that your generosity in donating your 65" Panasonic with all proceeds going to the American Cancer Society has inspired me!

-Robert



Ken Ross said:


> Yes indeed, as Robert stated, I have a Pro151 and actually prefer the Elite's picture to my beloved Kuro! My 151 is kind of sitting there, sad, gathering dust.
> 
> *A big thank you to Robert for turning me on to the Elite! *


Hi Ken, thanks for joining HTS, my new home. Great seeing you here and hope you make this a regular posting forum. 

And thanks for verifying my story and the kind words!

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

tripplej said:


> From reading this forum as well as others, I know that Sharp is working on the color issue..
> 
> But, I wanted to find out about "local dimming pulsing issues??" that some owners had and mentioned in another forum - not sure if it was mentioned here as well.....
> 
> Any owners here experience this? local dimming pulsing??


Yes I have this issue too. More and more people are noticing it over at AVS, but for most it's seldom seen and for others, like in my case, it doesn't occur in THX mode. However, in non-THX movie mode it's most definitely there on occasion.

It's not as easy issue to describe, but for me it's seen in dimly lit scenes where there is a featureless background, like a wall. It's a kind of pulsing that some feel is an increase & decrease in brightness in parts of this 'featureless area' or an increase & decrease in noise levels in those same areas.

I've seen a somewhat similar issue on my Pioneer Kuro where areas of the picture increase & decrease in the magnitude of noise in some dimly lit scenes (but not all by any means). One poster noticed a similar issue on his older Panasonic plasma. So the Elite is not unique to this kind of issue. One poster felt it was the result of a very slight change in the signal's brightness (almost imperceptible to the viewer) resulting in a relatively large change in the local dimming. To me that actually makes sense.

I saved a portion of an episode of NCIS on my DVR as it's easy to see on that episode. As soon as I switch to THX mode, the problem disappears. Yet I have exactly the same settings in both THX and non-THX movie modes (all picture enhancements are turned off). So I'm convinced there is something operating in the THX mode that prevents this issue from arising on my set. Whatever this 'setting' is, it's something the user has no control over and is operating behind the scenes.

But there are a few that say they see it in THX mode too.

It certainly doesn't change my mind or alter my opinion about the display...fantastic and the best out there. Yet it would be nice if Sharp identified the issue and fixed it. I believe Robert was unable to reproduce it on his two Elites.


----------



## rab-byte

I haven't messed with the elite since I did one of my store's displays. Does THX turn LD off?


----------



## JimP

Ken

Which episode of NCIS was it in and about where in the show did you see it?

Thought I'd check my display to see if I can see it.


----------



## Ken Ross

rab-byte said:


> I haven't messed with the elite since I did one of my store's displays. Does THX turn LD off?


No. The default THX LD setting is 'standard' as I recall.


----------



## Ken Ross

JimP said:


> Ken
> 
> Which episode of NCIS was it in and about where in the show did you see it?
> 
> Thought I'd check my display to see if I can see it.


Jim, it's the episode "Nature of the Beast" with an original air date of 9/20. You can begin to see the issue at about 2:30 when they're talking in the hospital room.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> Yes I have this issue too. More and more people are noticing it over at AVS, but for most it's seldom seen and for others, like in my case, it doesn't occur in THX mode. However, in non-THX movie mode it's most definitely there on occasion.
> 
> It's not as easy issue to describe, but for me it's seen in dimly lit scenes where there is a featureless background, like a wall. It's a kind of pulsing that some feel is an increase & decrease in brightness in parts of this 'featureless area' or an increase & decrease in noise levels in those same areas.
> 
> I've seen a somewhat similar issue on my Pioneer Kuro where areas of the picture increase & decrease in the magnitude of noise in some dimly lit scenes (but not all by any means). One poster noticed a similar issue on his older Panasonic plasma. So the Elite is not unique to this kind of issue. One poster felt it was the result of a very slight change in the signal's brightness (almost imperceptible to the viewer) resulting in a relatively large change in the local dimming. To me that actually makes sense.
> 
> I saved a portion of an episode of NCIS on my DVR as it's easy to see on that episode. As soon as I switch to THX mode, the problem disappears. Yet I have exactly the same settings in both THX and non-THX movie modes (all picture enhancements are turned off). So I'm convinced there is something operating in the THX mode that prevents this issue from arising on my set. Whatever this 'setting' is, it's something the user has no control over and is operating behind the scenes.
> 
> But there are a few that say they see it in THX mode too.
> 
> It certainly doesn't change my mind or alter my opinion about the display...fantastic and the best out there. Yet it would be nice if Sharp identified the issue and fixed it. I believe Robert was unable to reproduce it on his two Elites.


Hi buddy, what your describing here sounds exactly what I saw when OPC was ON. Please do me a favor and even though you know it's now (OFF) please check and see if it turns (ON) all by itself whenever you see a scene in which your experiencing these issues. It's just a theory I'd like to check thx.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Radtech51 said:


> Hi buddy, what your describing here sounds exactly what I saw when OPC was ON. Please do me a favor and even though you know it's now (OFF) please check and see if it turns (ON) all by itself whenever you see a scene in which your experiencing these issues. It's just a theory I'd like to check thx.


I can assure you that it's not an OPC issue. The only way to resolve the issue is to turn LD completely OFF. This is most definitely an image processing issue. It happens only if the background is below a certain threshold (below middle gray) and if there is a brighter object in front. The LD logic appears to get confused by the scene and can't decide whether the background should be dimmed or not. The result is a pulsing or shimmering darkness that snakes its way up and down, back and forth in the background. It's quite distracting - you can't miss it.

I've disabled OPC, all motion and film enhancement, as well as turned off active contrast. Issue is still present. Again, turning off LD resolves the issue completely... but then takes away the LD advantage of this set.

Robert, from what I can tell it seems to be a problem with the image processing algorithm in the LD software. Can you raise this issue with Sharp?


----------



## tripplej

Hi All, 

Thanks for your input in regards to the "local dimming pulsing issues".. By any chance has anybody recorded this and put up on web on youtube or some place.. I would be interested in seeing a video capture of this...
Also, I am sure Sharp would like to see it as well as a means of identifying what the root cause of the problem is..


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Hi buddy, what your describing here sounds exactly what I saw when OPC was ON. Please do me a favor and even though you know it's now (OFF) please check and see if it turns (ON) all by itself whenever you see a scene in which your experiencing these issues. It's just a theory I'd like to check thx.


No Rad, not an OPC thing. I just checked and it was off and was off in non-THX mode when I just saw the pulsing.


----------



## Ken Ross

Now interestingly, I just checked this NCIS episode on my Pro 151. The scene in question is inherently noisy and on the Kuro, you can see a changing pattern in the noise on the wall. So I'm still of the opinion that this is also somehow related to the degree of noise in the scene.

What seems to be happening is that the Elite embellishes what I see on the Kuro. It occurs on the same wall, but the pattern is larger and much more easily seen on the Elite. Again, this is in non-THX movie mode, not THX mode.

So in a sense, it can either be better or worse than what I see on the Kuro. Better when the Elite is in the THX mode and worse when the Elite is in the non-THX mode.

Very weird.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Ken, I strongly believe this is related to the broadcaster's compression that causes artifacts or interference from the electrical 60 cycles.

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

Robert Zohn said:


> Ken, I strongly believe this is related to the broadcaster's compression that causes artifacts or interference from the electrical 60 cycles.
> 
> -Robert


It could be Robert, but I'm not sure how that explains why it doesn't show in THX mode and does in non-THX movie mode :huh:


----------



## Robert Zohn

I would guess that it's related to the THX mode's lower gain settings that help reduce video noise.

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Robert Zohn said:


> Ken, I strongly believe this is related to the broadcaster's compression that causes artifacts or interference from the electrical 60 cycles.
> 
> -Robert


No, I don't think that's it. While the pulsing/shimmering is occurring, if what you say is true then shouldn't pausing the video momentarily stop the problem? When I paused the affected scene, the pulsing/shimmering continued for a handful of seconds as the image processing software on the Elite appeared to struggle in its attempt to "figure out" the scene. After a few seconds, the pulsing stops and the image is rock solid. As soon as you restart the video, the pulsing returns.

This wild snaking or pulsing of "darkness" combined with the fact that the issue completely disappears, in a verifiable and repeatable way, after turning off local dimming points to something in the local dimming system as the issue. I suspect the algorithm in charge of determining which zones to dim is the problem. In certain situations, it can't figure out what to dim. What we see on the screen is dimming confusion in these featureless background areas. Sharp really needs to examine this issue, as it is affecting almost everyone over at AVS.


----------



## Airgas1998

Ken Ross said:


> It could be Robert, but I'm not sure how that explains why it doesn't show in THX mode and does in non-THX movie mode :huh:


or on a reference quality blu-ray like TDK. robert, i saw this pulsing on everything from dvr,ota,br you name it. also keep in mind when i disable LD it immediately goes away.i think it is some sort of algorithm issue. however, i sold my 60" to a avs member and so far he sees nothing. go figure....:huh:


----------



## Airgas1998

AZREOSpecialist said:


> No, I don't think that's it. While the pulsing/shimmering is occurring, if what you say is true then shouldn't pausing the video momentarily stop the problem? When I paused the affected scene, the pulsing/shimmering continued for a handful of seconds as the image processing software on the Elite appeared to struggle in its attempt to "figure out" the scene. After a few seconds, the pulsing stops and the image is rock solid. As soon as you restart the video, the pulsing returns.
> 
> This wild snaking or pulsing of "darkness" combined with the fact that the issue completely disappears, in a verifiable and repeatable way, after turning off local dimming points to something in the local dimming system as the issue. I suspect the algorithm in charge of determining which zones to dim is the problem. In certain situations, it can't figure out what to dim. What we see on the screen is dimming confusion in these featureless background areas. Sharp really needs to examine this issue, as it is affecting almost everyone over at AVS.


"When I paused the affected scene, the pulsing/shimmering continued for a handful of seconds as the image processing software on the Elite appeared to struggle in its attempt to "figure out" the scene. " 

i agree...


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Just a followup to the above post... Airgas witnessed this issue while watching a specific scene in Dark Knight. He sold the TV to someone else who played the same scene and could not see the issue. There is a variability here, even using the same set with the same content. Since local dimming is supposed to dim dark areas and boost brighter areas, and the issue could not be repeated on the same TV using the same blu-ray disc in the homes of two different owners, I'm convinced that there is a tipping point related to brightness, contrast, and backlight intensity. A perfect storm occurs with certain settings and certain content which then cannot be reproduced due to variability of blu-ray player and individual video settings.

I also wonder if this could somehow be related to macroblocking, which might confuse the Elite's local dimming logic. But whatever the case, it happens in only certain situations with certain content at certain brightness levels. I am pretty sure it's a software issue and it's located in the local dimming system.

One of us will capture a video of this someday so we can all get on the same page to at least understand what the issue looks like. Once we have that, we can give Sharp something to chew on.


----------



## Ken Ross

AZREOSpecialist said:


> No, I don't think that's it. While the pulsing/shimmering is occurring, if what you say is true then shouldn't pausing the video momentarily stop the problem? When I paused the affected scene, the pulsing/shimmering continued for a handful of seconds as the image processing software on the Elite appeared to struggle in its attempt to "figure out" the scene. After a few seconds, the pulsing stops and the image is rock solid. As soon as you restart the video, the pulsing returns.
> 
> This wild snaking or pulsing of "darkness" combined with the fact that the issue completely disappears, in a verifiable and repeatable way, after turning off local dimming points to something in the local dimming system as the issue. I suspect the algorithm in charge of determining which zones to dim is the problem. In certain situations, it can't figure out what to dim. What we see on the screen is dimming confusion in these featureless background areas. Sharp really needs to examine this issue, as it is affecting almost everyone over at AVS.


What makes it more confusing is that some have it in THX mode and others don't. I see no evidence of it in THX mode and would accept Robert's explanation as a possibility, but then there are the others who do have it in THX mode with its enhanced noise reduction (or whatever is working behind the scenes).

It's a confusing issue to say the least, but it IS unquestionably very very repeatable.


----------



## Robert Zohn

I'm not fighting or dismissing the issue, but how do we explain that Ken Ross's 9th gen Elite pdp suffers from a very similar anomaly? 

I think this is possibly a normal anomaly that is present in video displays. The LD feature adds another layer of processing to control the increased the black level. Any processing can add noise to the signal.

I'll run the best example of this problem across our shoot-out wall to see how every other display handles the shimmering background.

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Just a followup to the above post... Airgas witnessed this issue while watching a specific scene in Dark Knight. He sold the TV to someone else who played the same scene and could not see the issue. There is a variability here, even using the same set with the same content. Since local dimming is supposed to dim dark areas and boost brighter areas, and the issue could not be repeated on the same TV using the same blu-ray disc in the homes of two different owners, I'm convinced that there is a tipping point related to brightness, contrast, and backlight intensity. A perfect storm occurs with certain settings and certain content which then cannot be reproduced due to variability of blu-ray player and individual video settings.
> 
> I also wonder if this could somehow be related to macroblocking, which might confuse the Elite's local dimming logic. But whatever the case, it happens in only certain situations with certain content at certain brightness levels. I am pretty sure it's a software issue and it's located in the local dimming system.
> 
> One of us will capture a video of this someday so we can all get on the same page to at least understand what the issue looks like. Once we have that, we can give Sharp something to chew on.


I've always liked your 'tipping point' theory. It does explain why a very very small change in the input signal's brightness (almost imperceptible) might cause a larger variation in the LD that becomes quite visible.


----------



## JimP

Ken....were you using the same player with both the Kuro and the Elite?


----------



## Ken Ross

JimP said:


> Ken....were you using the same player with both the Kuro and the Elite?


No, remember the issue for me was only on Verizon's FIOS playing NCIS from my DVR. So both TVs were accessing the same source.


----------



## tazz3

can any of you guys post a video of this if you can


----------



## Airgas1998

Robert Zohn said:


> I'm not fighting or dismissing the issue, but how do we explain that Ken Ross's 9th gen Elite pdp suffers from a very similar anomaly?
> 
> I think this is possibly a normal anomaly that is present in video displays. The LD feature adds another layer of processing to control the increased the black level. Any processing can add noise to the signal.
> 
> I'll run the best example of this problem across our shoot-out wall to see how every other display handles the shimmering background.
> 
> -Robert


hi robert, IF this is the case unfortuneately i could not live with it. i purchased a 65vt30 in it's place and although the blacks are ok, i was spolied by the elite. oh my what a difference.:crying:


----------



## Ken Ross

Airgas, it would appear not all Elites have this issue in THX mode. Why, I have no idea, but I can tell you a variant of the issue exists on my Kuro.


----------



## cleveland plasma

^^^ Every unit that rolls of a assembly line is different. "Unit variation" . As not all Panasonic built from august 2011 and younger have the FBR issue.....


----------



## Dragon81

Hey Guys,

I just received my new Elite Pro-60XFD yesterday through MHT and I had some questions.

1. Should I wait to have it calibrated until after the cyan fix is out? MHT is offering ISF calibration.

2. Regarding the pulsing/dimming issue is there a way to test for it? Like with a disc?

3. If I do have it what should I do in regards to the set, will there be a fix or do I exchange it?

According to Elite when I registered it they said it just came out of the factory around the 25th (Oct) if that helps.

4. Any other issues I should look out for that I'm not remembering right now?

Also, if anyone has any settings they'd like to share it'd would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in-advance for the help and info.


----------



## Ken Ross

Dragon81 said:


> Hey Guys,
> 
> I just received my new Elite Pro-60XFD yesterday through MHT and I had some questions.
> 
> 1. Should I wait to have it calibrated until after the cyan fix is out? MHT is offering ISF calibration.
> 
> 2. Regarding the pulsing/dimming issue is there a way to test for it? Like with a disc?
> 
> 3. If I do have it what should I do in regards to the set, will there be a fix or do I exchange it?
> 
> According to Elite when I registered it they said it just came out of the factory around the 25th (Oct) if that helps.
> 
> 4. Any other issues I should look out for that I'm not remembering right now?
> 
> Also, if anyone has any settings they'd like to share it'd would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks in-advance for the help and info.


Congrats on your new Elite, Dragon:

1. Wait for the fix before calibrating. If you don't, you'll need to calibrate twice. Most calibrators will tell you to wait until you have 100 hours on the display anyway. 

2. I haven't seen it on a Blu Ray yet. Some have seen it in the courtroom scene in The Dark Night. Your best chance of seeing it is with some dimly lit scenes on a relatively noisy broadcast show. My test scene is from an episode of NCIS. But regardless, in my case, I never see it in the THX mode. We're not certain if all the sets have the pulsing (some have never seen it) and it's just that it's seen so seldom or only in certain settings. 

3. Nobody I know has exchanged it for this specific issue, but more than likely, even if you see it, it will be on rare occasions. Try THX mode where I've never seen it. 

4. No. Sit back, relax, and watch the best picture of any display out there today.


----------



## 26point2

Got mine yesterday, pro70x5fd...playing around with it now. This replaced an OLD Mitz 65" CRT RPTV I bought back in 2002. Big difference. I do have a 50" Kuro Elite in the bedroom so I am sorta familiar with this family of TV. Hope it doesn't disappoint. 

I plan on hanging in on the wall, have it on a stand right now. Just need a few days to justify an $8K tv. Hopefully NFL Sunday will help me out w/that.

I just finished the S/W update...no issues there. 

BTW, Sons of Anarchy looks amazing in 1080P!!

Anyway, I hope to contribute where I can.

Thanks for the great forum!

Craig


----------



## mechman

Welcome to HTS Craig and Dragon! :wave: Good to have you both aboard.


----------



## Dragon81

Ken Ross said:


> Congrats on your new Elite, Dragon:
> 
> 1. Wait for the fix before calibrating. If you don't, you'll need to calibrate twice. Most calibrators will tell you to wait until you have 100 hours on the display anyway.
> 
> 2. I haven't seen it on a Blu Ray yet. Some have seen it in the courtroom scene in The Dark Night. Your best chance of seeing it is with some dimly lit scenes on a relatively noisy broadcast show. My test scene is from an episode of NCIS. But regardless, in my case, I never see it in the THX mode. We're not certain if all the sets have the pulsing (some have never seen it) and it's just that it's seen so seldom or only in certain settings.
> 
> 3. Nobody I know has exchanged it for this specific issue, but more than likely, even if you see it, it will be on rare occasions. Try THX mode where I've never seen it.
> 
> 4. No. Sit back, relax, and watch the best picture of any display out there today.


Thanks Ken.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Welcome to HTS and congrats on your Elite purchase! If you want the discrete "On" and discrete "Off" codes just send me an email.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

I may need them soon Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Consider it done, ^^ I'll email the instructions on downloading and installing the codes into your new 70" Elite, that will also be on its way to you tomorrow.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

awesome. I am so happy you have no idea!!!!!


----------



## Airgas1998

well guys after a brief relapse i'm back in the elite arena. ordered a 2nd elite 70" version from Robert @ v.e. do to his excellent after sales support. i missed the contrast punch and superior black levels it took me about 30 seconds to realize i made a mistake.:doh:


----------



## tripplej

Hopefully Airgas1998, your new unit will give you better results and if not, hopefully, a solution is found in the near future..


----------



## Ken Ross

Airgas1998 said:


> well guys after a brief relapse i'm back in the elite arena. ordered a 2nd elite 70" version from Robert @ v.e. do to his excellent after sales support. i missed the contrast punch and superior black levels it took me about 30 seconds to realize i made a mistake.:doh:


Hope you have better luck this time Air. The Elite does spoil you.


----------



## Robert Zohn

We are loving our new Elite in the living room and I upgraded from a stunning PRO-141FD. For us the brighter and much deeper black level has made me a convert.

-Robert


----------



## Dragon81

Robert Zohn said:


> Welcome to HTS and congrats on your Elite purchase! If you want the discrete "On" and discrete "Off" codes just send me an email.
> 
> Enjoy!
> 
> -Robert


Thanks Robert. What are these codes you speak of?


----------



## JimP

Airgas1998 said:


> well guys after a brief relapse i'm back in the elite arena. ordered a 2nd elite 70" version from Robert @ v.e. do to his excellent after sales support. i missed the contrast punch and superior black levels it took me about 30 seconds to realize i made a mistake.:doh:


What did you try in the interum?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Dragon81 said:


> Thanks Robert. What are these codes you speak of?


I have the discrete power "ON" and power "OFF" codes. If you need them just send me an email.

-Robert


----------



## Airgas1998

JimP said:


> What did you try in the interum?


65VT30


----------



## aleicgrant

Airgas1998 said:


> 65VT30


what made you come back from the VT


----------



## Airgas1998

cr and very good mll.....


----------



## DYAUS

*NEW TO HTS*

Hello everyone, I purchased my 60x5fd about 3 weeks ago and WOW! I was so happy with it I decided to upgrade to the 70x5fd. Along the way I have been keeping up with this thread and have received a lot of helpful information from it so I decided to join and help out as much as possible. I am not an expert, but I am very savvy with A/V so if anyone has any questions I'm glad to help where I can. I would also like to say THANKS to everyone on this thread for the helpful info.


----------



## Ken Ross

*Re: NEW TO HTS*

It had once been discussed, but does anyone know if the ISF mode has an issue with gamma and is therefore not the calibration mode of choice? I'm not sure if I recall correctly, but was Sharp looking in to this?


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> We are loving our new Elite in the living room and I upgraded from a stunning PRO-141FD. For us the brighter and much deeper black level has made me a convert.
> 
> -Robert


:sn:


----------



## Dragon81

nevermind


----------



## JimP

Dragon81

I don't know about that but it does seem that there was something about being made in different plants and the tech in the 60 for that plant was usually something different but it was never difinitively said that the line wasn't changed to be the same tech.

I would hope they wouldn't use different tech in the same class display. If Sharp is wanting to make a name for itself, I don't think that'll be the name people would come up with if they were doing that.


----------



## DYAUS

I too am curious about this cause I am about to upgrade from the 60x5fd to the 70x5fd. Anyone else have any insight on this particular topic?


----------



## gimp

What kind of picture degradation can I expect at 35 degrees off center viewing angle? This is my primary viewing angle so I'm concerned. I currently have a plasma so it is not an issue.


----------



## Robert Zohn

It depends on the screen size 60" or 70" and your viewing distance. The 70" has better off axes viewing angles. Also the further away you are from the screen the more off axes you can be with less degradation.

So with the 70" at about 12' you can easily be 35 degrees off center and have an almost perfect picture.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

RZ

Did you get my email about the skype camera


----------



## Dragon81

I'm thinking of going from the 60 to the 70. I got it from MHT so I could take it back but I'm none to pleased about the idea of paying MSRP for the 70. Any ideas?


----------



## aleicgrant

Dragon81 said:


> I'm thinking of going from the 60 to the 70. I got it from MHT so I could take it back but I'm none to pleased about the idea of paying MSRP for the 70. Any ideas?


talk to Robert instead. I beleive they include some items such as ISF which help defray msrp


----------



## JClam

aleicgrant said:


> talk to Robert instead. I beleive they include some items such as ISF which help defray msrp


MHT has probably sold 5 Elites nationwide while Robert has probably sold 30+ (including my 70)...there's definitely a reason for that.

PS my stats may be slightly off but directionally correct...you get the idea.:sn:


----------



## aleicgrant

JClam said:


> MHT has probably sold 5 Elites nationwide while Robert has probably sold 30+ (including my 70)...there's definitely a reason for that.
> 
> PS my stats may be slightly off but directionally correct...you get the idea.:sn:


I would suspect Robert is the top seller of these sets in the US by a WIDE margin.

Call him. Worth the call just for the friendly service and conversation if nothing else


----------



## tripplej

Dragon81 said:


> Besides size is there a difference between the 60 and the 70? Is there a difference in the panel tech? I could of sworn I read somewhere that the 60 is 2009 design panel wise and that the 70 is new for 2011.


Per the link shown below here.. 

http://www.dealerscope.com/article/elite-tv-brand-resurfaces-led-lcd-tv-line-pioneer-sharp/1


"The sets take advantage of tenth-generation local-dimming full-array LED LCD panels developed by Sharp’s Sakai, Japan factory. They also use Sharp’s proprietary UV2A technology, yielding better light transmissivity, higher peak brightness and lower power consumption, said the company."

And to learn more about the Sakai factory, see link below here ...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2009/nov/30/sharp-shows-plant-making-10th-generation-panels/


----------



## Dragon81

Thanks for the info


----------



## DYAUS

I have still yet to read or see anything saying that the 60x5fd and 70x5fd differ in any way. Would everyone here agree that the two are identical in specs/technology? If not can anyone provide a link to the page where it describes the differences in the specs/technology?


----------



## Dragon81

Hey Robert I have a question about the shootout.

The calibrators rated the Sammy and Panny plasma first and second? right? 

The Elite won the popular vote?

Now would it have scored higher without the color issue? And if so will the results be re-examined when a fix is released.

Also I have a Elite 60, but I may go to the 70 but the 2 plasmas are nice also. Do you have an opinion on this?


----------



## tripplej

DYAUS said:


> I have still yet to read or see anything saying that the 60x5fd and 70x5fd differ in any way. Would everyone here agree that the two are identical in specs/technology? If not can anyone provide a link to the page where it describes the differences in the specs/technology?


on the elite website for specs, it gives everything identical except for the size and the price!


----------



## DYAUS

Yeah I have seen the website I was just curious because of the posts I have seen about the sets coming from different factories and possibly the fact that the two have different tech. I am assuming the website is correct and all that talk is just rumors, but I wanted to put it out there and see if anyone may in fact have a link to a page. Thank you for your reply though I appreciate it.


----------



## tripplej

DYAUS said:


> Yeah I have seen the website I was just curious because of the posts I have seen about the sets coming from different factories and possibly the fact that the two have different tech. I am assuming the website is correct and all that talk is just rumors, but I wanted to put it out there and see if anyone may in fact have a link to a page. Thank you for your reply though I appreciate it.


See the links I put in post 721 above..


----------



## DYAUS

Thanks tripplej. I actually did take a look at those links but did not see anywhere in the articles saying the two sets differ at all. Maybe I missed something but all I saw was the basic info about the panels and how they use the new IVC tech.


----------



## tripplej

DYAUS said:


> Thanks tripplej. I actually did take a look at those links but did not see anywhere in the articles saying the two sets differ at all. Maybe I missed something but all I saw was the basic info about the panels and how they use the new IVC tech.


Right.. No differences!



unless someone else can prove otherwise, we take it that there are no differences besides just the size and price difference.


----------



## mechman

*SpectraCal Announces Direct Calibration Connection for Sharp Elite*



> New CalMAN Support Added For The Sharp Elite
> 
> (Seattle, WA) – November 9, 2011 – Add Sharp Elite to the number of displays that can be directly controlled from leading video calibration software CalMAN.
> 
> This fall, Sharp brought back an iconic name in television by introducing Elite LED LCD TVs designed for discerning consumers who want the best home entertainment experience.
> 
> SpectraCal, makers of the award-winning CalMAN, today announced a version of CalMAN that allows direct access to the Sharp Elite’s calibration controls.
> 
> Before CalMAN, video calibration had been a complicated process of using on-screen menus with a remote control. And every display has different controls, called by different names, with different sets of effects and side-effects. With CalMAN, adjusting the display becomes as easy as adjusting the relative height of bars on a chart.
> 
> CalMAN directly communicates with the display, measures the result of the change, and zeroes in on the desired result.
> 
> “CalMAN makes it much faster and easier to perform much better video calibrations,” explains Derek Smith, SpectraCal’s founder and Chief Technical Officer.
> 
> In fact, some calibrations can be accomplished by pushing a single button.
> 
> CalMAN offers three levels of support for the Sharp Elite, starting with direct access to individual display controls, such as brightness and contrast adjustments, on the computer interface – no remote control required. Second, interactive charts allow the calibrator to set the display output to any desired standards. Finally the “one-button” CalMAN-AC™ automated calibration solution automatically adjusts all settings across multiple measurement points as a single operation.
> 
> Elite LCD televisions incorporate proprietary RGB+Y technology, which adds a yellow sub-pixel to the standard red/green/blue color palette. Sharp says that the addition of the yellow sub-pixel enables the reproduction of a much broader range of colors. In addition, RGB+Y create higher brightness using less power and more accurately depicts vivid yellows and vibrant golds.
> 
> But RGB+Y technology also poses the possibility of additional difficulty for the calibrator, difficulty with which CalMAN’s automated technology solves.
> 
> With its control over the display’s color management system (CMS), adjustments that used to require hours can be accomplished in minutes. "CMS work is notoriously complicated and difficult to get right," explained Derek Smith, SpectraCal CEO. "With CalMAN's DDC, you can create stunningly beautiful and accurate images – and you don't need a Ph.D. in physics and all day to make it happen."
> 
> The Sharp Elite was announced the winner of the 2011 HDTV shootout sponsored by Value Electronics last month.
> 
> "In the seven years since we've held the shootout, this is the first time an LCD won," said Robert Zohn, the shootout’s sponsor. Zohn explained that the Elite did "exceptionally well" at uniformity (including blooming) and off-angle viewing, which have previously been weak points for LED-based displays.
> 
> The Sharp Elite workflow will be included in the new CalMAN AutoCal™ (AC) add-on license, promotionally priced at $99 for the month of November. Buy the CalMAN AutoCal™ add-on license in November and also get the CalPC add-on license for free. Additionally, new CalMAN software purchases (all licenses) in November will have both AutoCal and CalPC add-on licenses included. (Expected early December release date for Sharp Elite workflow.)
> 
> Free evaluation versions of CalMAN are available for download from the SpectraCal web site.
> 
> For more information, please go to www.spectracal.com or contact [email protected].
> 
> About SpectraCal
> 
> SpectraCal provides everything needed for calibrating video displays: the award-winning software CalMAN, a wide range of colorimeters and spectrophotometers for accurate color measurement, the best available test pattern sources, and a comprehensive education program. CalMAN DIY is the most popular color calibration software used by video enthusiasts worldwide. SpectraCal is the number one supplier of technical training on calibration in the world. Please visit www.spectracal.com for more information.


Source: Spectracal


----------



## tripplej

Home Theater (http://www.hometheater.com/content/elite-pro-60x5fd-3d-led-lcd-hdtv) just came out with their review of the elite...

Here is the conclusion..

"Conclusions
Is the Elite PRO-60X5FD the new all-time flat-panel champ? I’d have to say yes, by a nose. It comes with caveats, for sure. Its off-axis performance is no better than average for an LCD and inferior in this regard to the IPS LCD panels LG and Vizio use. The price is also fear-inducing for most of us.

But the Kuros weren’t cheap or perfect either. The Elites offer enough of that secret Kuro sauce, combined with LCD’s unique benefits—not least of which should be lower energy consumption compared with the power-hungry Kuros—and the brightest 3D you’ll find this side of real life.

Is the margin so clear cut as to produce a glut of used Kuros on eBay and Videogon? No, but potential new buyers can now remove the hair shirts they donned when they missed the Kuro train as it pulled out of the station and chugged off into the sunset. If the Sharp Elite isn’t the inevitable sunrise, it’s as close to it as we’ll get this side of an 80-inch 4K-resolution set with 500-plus zones of local dimming. We’ll all be waiting breathlessly for that one, but in the meantime, this new Elite is the one to tide you over. "


----------



## Ken Ross

Dragon81 said:


> Hey Robert I have a question about the shootout.
> 
> The calibrators rated the Sammy and Panny plasma first and second? right?
> 
> The Elite won the popular vote?
> 
> Now would it have scored higher without the color issue? And if so will the results be re-examined when a fix is released.
> 
> Also I have a Elite 60, but I may go to the 70 but the 2 plasmas are nice also. Do you have an opinion on this?


It would have won without the color issue. That was stated at the shootout.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct as usual ^^ Ken. In fact, the three calibrators wanted to punish the Elite and Panasonic's VT30 for the color accuracy issue. There felt no display that could not perfectly decode to rec 709 could not be the winner.

However, the audience judged the panels purely by which ones delivered the best overall picture quality and the higher contrast ratio made them select the Elite as first, VT30 second and D8000 pdp as third place.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

*Re: SpectraCal Announces Direct Calibration Connection for Sharp Elite*



mechman said:


> Source: Spectracal


Nice to see SpectraCal quote me in their press release.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert Zohn said:


> Nice to see SpectraCal quote me in their press release.
> 
> -Robert


+1


----------



## mechman

*Re: SpectraCal Announces Direct Calibration Connection for Sharp Elite*



Robert Zohn said:


> Nice to see SpectraCal quote me in their press release.
> 
> -Robert


How could they not! :T :bigsmile:


----------



## dsskid

JClam said:


> MHT has probably sold 5 Elites nationwide while Robert has probably sold 30+ (including my 70)...there's definitely a reason for that.
> 
> PS my stats may be slightly off (?) but directionally correct...you get the idea.:sn:


 How were you able to obtain such information with any resemblence of accuracy? 
I'm not doubting Robert's sales of displays, or his superior customer service, which is second to none, I'm just having a hard time believing your MHT number to be anything but .


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> Correct as usual ^^ Ken. In fact, the three calibrators wanted to punish the Elite and Panasonic's VT30 for the color accuracy issue. There felt no display that could not perfectly decode to rec 709 could not be the winner.
> 
> However, the audience judged the panels purely by which ones delivered the best overall picture quality and the higher contrast ratio made them select the Elite as first, VT30 second and D8000 pdp as third place.
> 
> -Robert


Punish them? Funny choice of words. 
When you reach the black levels that today's panels achieve, there are other factors that go into making one display stand out as better than the rest, color accuracy being one. 
It's no secret that DNice doesn't care for Samsung's business ethics, and I'm sure there was more than wanting to "punish" Panasonic and Sharp for their decoding errors, for him to pick the Samsung over the them at the shootout.


----------



## aleicgrant

dsskid said:


> How were you able to obtain such information with any resemblence of accuracy?
> I'm not doubting Robert's sales of displays, or his superior customer service, which is second to none, I'm just having a hard time believing your MHT number to be anything but .


out of sheer curiosity I decided to call a friend who works at Best Buy. He was able to look up sales in the region and state for FL. Total number Elites sold in the last 60 days.............drum roll.......... two. 

Now I know its just one state but it would reason to say that BB does not have this set flying off the shelf. I would be part of that reason is most experiences in store have been quite less than spectacular because they are not set up properly. Also, I found that on my three visits, the sales person actually tried to talk me out of buying it......

I would rather buy it from Robert knowing I am dealing with someone who actually cares about how I spend my money

YMMV


----------



## dsskid

aleicgrant said:


> out of sheer curiosity I decided to call a friend who works at Best Buy. He was able to look up sales in the region and state for FL. Total number Elites sold in the last 60 days.............drum roll.......... two.
> 
> Now I know its just one state but it would reason to say that BB does not have this set flying off the shelf. I would be part of that reason is most experiences in store have been quite less than spectacular because they are not set up properly. Also, I found that on my three visits, the sales person actually tried to talk me out of buying it......
> 
> I would rather buy it from Robert knowing I am dealing with someone who actually cares about how I spend my money
> 
> YMMV


Florida also has a lot of retired folks on fixed incomes. But even if Florida was a true representation of the 49 other states, that would bring the total to 100, wouldn't it? That is a far cry from the 5 that you gave them credit for.

And I also would rather buy from Robert, and I have. Again, Robert's operation is first class, and you won't find that kind of service in too many places, but the fact remains, many consumers would rather save money than get personalized service.


----------



## Glenee

Robert may be one of a dying breed of Retailer's. His level of personal caring about you and your purchase is beyond approach. I would challenge anyone to do a search in all the forums, not just here but at AVS, HDJ, BluRay Forum, Audioafficinado, any place on the web and see If you can find a negative remark form one of his Customers that had a Bad Experience with there purchase from Him or Wendy. I'll save you some time. You can't find it. In order to have this kind of flawless report, you know He had to take money out of his own pocket to make some of the less than Honest Customers Happy. You know this kind of Service is not going to be around for ever, So if you want to experience something you can tell your Grandkids about that you remember when, and your in the market for something not just for this display. Try it you will be Glad You Did. Expecially First Time Buyers.


----------



## markrogo

Glenee said:


> Robert may be one of a dying breed of Retailer's. His level of personal caring about you and your purchase is beyond approach. I would challenge anyone to do a search in all the forums, not just here but at AVS, HDJ, BluRay Forum, Audioafficinado, any place on the web and see If you can find a negative remark form one of his Customers that had a Bad Experience with there purchase from Him or Wendy. I'll save you some time. You can't find it. In order to have this kind of flawless report, you know He had to take money out of his own pocket to make some of the less than Honest Customers Happy. You know this kind of Service is not going to be around for ever, So if you want to experience something you can tell your Grandkids about that you remember when, and your in the market for something not just for this display. Try it you will be Glad You Did. Expecially First Time Buyers.


(Edit) This post deserves to be "seconded" for lack of a better term. There are still a handful of people who really care (edited), but not many. I went to my car dealer the other day because my lease is nearly up to try to get my guy to check into the schedule on the new model, etc. He had no idea who I was and not a tremendous amount of interest in helping me. Keep in mind, this guy sells cars for a living and doesn't make money unless people buy them.

Robert, by contrast, is the kind of guy who if you walked into the store 3 years later, he might well remember you. But even if it was your first trip, you'd probably feel like you were getting "concierge" service as though you'd been a high-end shopper for years. It's weird because it's so rare. 

(As an aside, I don't believe for a second that Best Buy is selling 1 Elite per month in the Florida region. Sorry, I just don't.)


----------



## aleicgrant

believe what you will. My friend looked out of curiosity for me so are you saying he is incorrect even though he has worked at Best Buy for 7 years. Mark have you ever worked at Best Buy? 

Anyways I will reaffirm 1000+ about Robert to quote Glenee.


----------



## rab-byte

I haven't been following this thread recently. Had sharp addressed cms issues with a firmware update yet if not do we have an ETA?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thank you fine gents for the very kind words, which are so greatly appreciated!

rab-byte, I just spoke with engineer and senior management yesterday and they are in the final stages of writing the firmware fix for the teal decoding error and under-saturated green, which are related issues. I'm hoping to have a Beta copy shortly.

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

Have you guys seen gamma issues on the elites?

On a few forums, I have been reading about this.. 

one person stated the following:

"The THX is very acceptable but needs further tweaking because the gamma is off. I had to go in to the 10-point setup to fix the gamma. Prior to the 10-point setup, anything above 60 IRE is out of whack making things look weird (to my eyes)"


----------



## Robert Zohn

Not by you fine sir, ^^ but that is greatly exaggerated. THX is very well calibrated with a small bump in gamma above 60 IRE.

-Robert


----------



## tripplej

Robert Zohn said:


> Not by you fine sir, ^^ but that is greatly exaggerated. THX is very well calibrated with a small bump in gamma above 60 IRE.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the update.. When reading all the various forums and discussions, hard to tell what is what for the average joe the consumer!


----------



## markrogo

aleicgrant said:


> believe what you will, you usually do regardless of other opinion. My friend looked out of curiosity for me so are you saying he is incorrect even though he has worked at Best Buy for 7 years. Mark have you ever worked at Best Buy?
> 
> Anyways I will reaffirm 1000+ about Robert to quote Glenee.


(Edited)

Bottom line, the Elites are going to be low volume, but they are available through the vast majority of Best Buy stores already. Best Buy corporate has ordered the lion's share of production. These days, you don't sit on millions on inventory waiting for some change of consumer behavior. People are either buying these -- or not. And if sales are zero -- which is what your friend is essentially stating -- they would already be moving on. 

I suggest people in Florida start negotiating as follows: "I know your dealer cost is below $5000 on the 70" and I know you are selling none, so how about $5000." Because, honestly, if what you are reporting is true, they have already told Sharp they are done with the product and are taking no more deliveries. There isn't going to be some second wave where suddenly people go from ignoring the line at Best Buy for 2 months to buying them. That's just not the way it works.


----------



## mechman

Let's get back on topic. I could care less about Best Buy or their inventory or how many gizmos they sold last month. I do, however, appreciate hearing more about this display. :T


----------



## aleicgrant

mechman said:


> Let's get back on topic. I could care less about Best Buy or their inventory or how many gizmos they sold last month. I do, however, appreciate hearing more about this display. :T


+ 1 billion


----------



## rab-byte

Robert thank you!
I'm going to be training several coworkers on the elite soon (about a month out) and was afraid I had missed something.


----------



## markrogo

My post is actually relevant. If sales are really that low, the product has actually been discontinued already -- whether or not people have been told about this. (This also makes the post I responded to relevant). I don't spend nights worrying about Best Buy sales figures, but if they are moving none, the Elite line is gone. Sharp actually alluded to threats to continuing this experiment at the shootout, commenting that it depended on sales. 

The point here is if you want one, you might need to order it soon.


----------



## Moonfly

markrogo said:


> My post is actually relevant. If sales are really that low, the product has actually been discontinued already -- whether or not people have been told about this. (This also makes the post I responded to relevant). I don't spend nights worrying about Best Buy sales figures, but if they are moving none, the Elite line is gone. Sharp actually alluded to threats to continuing this experiment at the shootout, commenting that it depended on sales.
> 
> The point here is if you want one, you might need to order it soon.


Your point on ordering soon is a fair one. 

You have already been asked not to surmise about stocks and push that point as it guess work and not on topic. Continually pushing a point will only lower the tone of the thread. You made your point, its been allowed to stand, now lets keep the thread clean and to the point. Mechman has already made this request once, no further will be issued, all threads will be kept on topic.

Thanks


----------



## aleicgrant

Back to topic. My 70 arrives on Wednesday (I am hardly able to sleep tracking its movement almost hourly) 
When it arrives, what should I be looking for specifically outside of any cracks before I let the driver leave.

thanks


----------



## lcaillo

I recommend actually plugging it in and firing it up before the driver leaves on any panel that large.


----------



## lcaillo

Posts in this thread have been edited and/or removed to keep the thread on topic and to eliminate personal bickering. I will remind everyone to read the rules and to keep posting on topic and not make personal comments about others. Everyone's opinion is welcome with regard to the topic as long as those opinions are expressed in a respectful and cordial manner.

This is Home Theater Shack. We will not have baggage from other forums lowering our standards of discourse.


----------



## aleicgrant

lcaillo said:


> I recommend actually plugging it in and firing it up before the driver leaves on any panel that large.


will do. I was thinking there might be some quick pattern I could also dead for dead pixels etc. While I believe most are arriving free of traditional defects, I have noticed a few comments about dead pixels. I will have my Oppo at the ready


----------



## lcaillo

Most cracks can be seen with no power, but we have had some that are hard to notice. Fire it up and it becomes plain as day.


----------



## lcaillo

With respect to marketing high end products like this, there simply is not a good model these days. As has been said, there are precious few dealers who take it as seriously as Robert. They may be less driven by the box movers on this product class than with others, but the decisions that get made regarding their future are hard to predict. The fact that they are even in that market, frankly, is a bit of a surprise. For now, we have the products, and we have some pretty good assessments of their performance, which seems to be quite respectable. Let's focus on extracting the best from them and enjoying them.

I encourage everyone to visit your local dealers and ask them the tough questions and demand that they display products in a manner that allows for objective and complete comparison. Until dealers start to get that consumers do have higher standards, the erosion of the market for displays to the lowest common denominator will continue. We saw it happen with CRTs and it is continuing with new technologies.

Expect more, and demand more, in terms of both products and service.


----------



## rab-byte

lcaillo said:


> With respect to marketing high end products like this, there simply is not a good model these days. As has been said, there are precious few dealers who take it as seriously as Robert. They may be less driven by the box movers on this product class than with others, but the decisions that get made regarding their future are hard to predict. The fact that they are even in that market, frankly, is a bit of a surprise. For now, we have the products, and we have some pretty good assessments of their performance, which seems to be quite respectable. Let's focus on extracting the best from them and enjoying them.
> 
> I encourage everyone to visit your local dealers and ask them the tough questions and demand that they display products in a manner that allows for objective and complete comparison. Until dealers start to get that consumers do have higher standards, the erosion of the market for displays to the lowest common denominator will continue. We saw it happen with CRTs and it is continuing with new technologies.
> 
> Expect more, and demand more, in terms of both products and service.


Well said. 
I have found in my interactions with the retail world that usually in any store there are one or two very smart employees that the rest of the team rely on to answer the more technical questions. Unfortunately these employees are not always evident. Often they are the ones constantly maintaining the displays, tweaking the stereos and hiding in corners of the store fixing things.

I advise seeking these individuals out as they tend to be much more knowledgable on a range of topics. 

I guess I'm saying don't judge the product because your talking to someone with less knowledge find out who you can speak with.


----------



## Dragon81

I have many times found myself explaining something to some employee and I find myself thinking - shouldn't this be the other way around?


----------



## 26point2

Well, finally got it hung on the wall...took a little doing as the basement studs are 24" on center and there is a stud right in the middle of the wall. Ended up lag bolting a 2"X12" (54" long, two bolts per stud) to three studs, centered on the wall. Then bolted the mount to the 2"X12". The center mount bolts go all the way to the studs. This way I was able to center the TV on the wall w/o having to slide the TV to all the way to one side of the mount.

Hopefully it all stays on the wall.

Edit: Doesn't look level...I'm just shy of a 1/4 in lower on the right side. I swear it was level when I first put it up...does tilting it affect the level? I wouldn't think so, but that's all I did since checking the level. Rats.

R/
Craig


----------



## Homethrstud

aleicgrant said:


> out of sheer curiosity I decided to call a friend who works at Best Buy. He was able to look up sales in the region and state for FL. Total number Elites sold in the last 60 days.............drum roll.......... two.
> 
> Now I know its just one state but it would reason to say that BB does not have this set flying off the shelf. I would be part of that reason is most experiences in store have been quite less than spectacular because they are not set up properly. Also, I found that on my three visits, the sales person actually tried to talk me out of buying it......
> 
> I would rather buy it from Robert knowing I am dealing with someone who actually cares about how I spend my money
> 
> YMMV


I would be willing to bet that the average consumer looks at the Panny or Samsung thats 3k less in price and can't tell enough of a difference in picture. With the Elite's not calibrated the pictures don't look all that different on these sets in the store. The severe sticker shock with the bargain minded people these's days it's going to be a hard sell.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Homethrstud, good point and this is certinely true, but I would like to add the following reasons for low sales volume in MHT. Here's my take for the many folks I've spoken to who have visited many of the MHT stores across America. 

First, is the content they are showing is poorly mastered BD. Mostly Superman and other poor transfers. They should be demonstrating the Elite demo BD disc or any other BD that is reference quality.

Second, is that most stores have the TV set in the wrong mode, some are in vivid and other poorly set-up modes. The Elite TV naturally delivers a very bright image and does not need to be put in a bright mode.

Third, is that only a fraction of the MHT sales reps know how to properly present this TV.

And finally, very few MHT stores discount this TV and those that do offer only small incentives. MHT does not get enough of the video enthusiasts traffic who understand this TV and want to buy it to achieve enough sales on this specialized TV, so to create more market acceptance they need extensive training in video to properly present this very special TV. 

At our store we see a fair amount of normal folks who are interested in a premium TV buying the Elite after a good education on how and why the Elite TV outperforms all other TVs in high, medium and low ambient light conditions. We properly demonstrate all of the Elite TV benefits.

This TV needs to be in an TV friendly environment, with the right content playing that is conducive to best demonstrate TVs, set-up properly and well presented.

-Robert


----------



## Spiff69

+1 - One thing I've noticed after owning the set for a week or so is how the multitude of controls can affect a viewing experience. Something as simple as the OPC and a bad video mode can definitely make one question the price tag.


----------



## 26point2

Got it leveled...I think the spacers I used on the mount were not the correct way to go. Seemed the whole set-up slipped a little bit. Kinda scary actually, I had dreams of breaking glass all last night. Anyway, got it back up...looks great. Looking forward to some football this afternoon. 

Sorry, I don't have much to say about MHT sales...although that's where I bought mine. They did have the Avatar DVD playing and it looked pretty sharp. Can't say anything bad about the sales person...he did get me in and out quickly so I could get to the warehouse in time to pick it up. BTW, this TV in the box didn't quite fit in my truck, couldn't close the gate...I had 9 tie downs securing it to the bed and drove 20 miles/hour.

R/
Craig


----------



## Robert Zohn

Craig, congratulations of your excellent purchase!! 

MHT definitely have some very good sales people and some stores do a good job demonstrating the Elite TV. 

-Robert


----------



## 26point2

Thanks Robert. I've been looking for a good bit for something to replace my Mits WD-65819 (10 year old TV)...this one seems to be it. Next I need to start looking to replace my receiver...I have a Denon 5802. Does a great job, just no HDMI switching. I'm looking at the Onkyo 3009. 

Actually, next, I need to get some sort of video set-up Blu-ray disk. I have the old Home Theater video tune-up, but I don't think that one is going to cut it any longer.

Tried out the 3D last night during the hockey game...turns out Directv has 3 3D channels, and one PPV 3D channel. Looks pretty cool...still not sure if I could watch it for long periods of time.

Watched Transformers 3 on Blu-ray last nite...it was almost seemed too clear. Almost fake, guess I'll get used to that.

Thanks for all the good info in this thread.

R/
Craig


----------



## 26point2

Robert...I looked at your site...can you order from it, or do you have to call to order? Sorry if this doesn't fit in this thread...please delete if you feel it is not appropriate.

R/
Craig


----------



## Robert Zohn

Craig, we're not a shopping cart type of e-commerce company, but sell Nationwide. I like the personal contact and enjoy giving advice that matches each person's application and personal needs.

Also many high-end premium lines do not permit shopping cart sales or discount prices listed on-line so we need to personally speak with every customer.

-Robert


----------



## 26point2

Robert Zohn said:


> Craig, we're not a shopping cart type of e-commerce company, but sell Nationwide. I like the personal contact and enjoy giving advice that matches each person's application and personal needs.
> 
> Also many high-end premium lines do not permit shopping cart sales or discount prices listed on-line so we need to personally speak with every customer.
> 
> -Robert


I'm cool with that. I'll be in contact w/you. The local audio/video store I used to go to 6 years ago, changed their business model. Now they have no showrooms, which I like because you can bring your own DVD to see how things look and sound.

So now I'm more of an internet shopper. Kinda wish I saw this thread before I bought the TV at MHT...but then again, it was an impulse buy right next to the register. 


Thanks,
Craig


----------



## Homethrstud

Robert Zohn said:


> Homethrstud, good point and this is certinely true, but I would like to add the following reasons for low sales volume in MHT. Here's my take for the many folks I've spoken to who have visited many of the MHT stores across America.
> 
> First, is the content they are showing is poorly mastered BD. Mostly Superman and other poor transfers. They should be demonstrating the Elite demo BD disc or any other BD that is reference quality.
> 
> Second, is that most stores have the TV set in the wrong mode, some are in vivid and other poorly set-up modes. The Elite TV naturally delivers a very bright image and does not need to be put in a bright mode.
> 
> Third, is that only a fraction of the MHT sales reps know how to properly present this TV.
> 
> And finally, very few MHT stores discount this TV and those that do offer only small incentives. MHT does not get enough of the video enthusiasts traffic who understand this TV and want to buy it to achieve enough sales on this specialized TV, so to create more market acceptance they need extensive training in video to properly present this very special TV.
> 
> At our store we see a fair amount of normal folks who are interested in a premium TV buying the Elite after a good education on how and why the Elite TV outperforms all other TVs in high, medium and low ambient light conditions. We properly demonstrate all of the Elite TV benefits.
> 
> This TV needs to be in an TV friendly environment, with the right content playing that is conducive to best demonstrate TVs, set-up properly and well presented.
> 
> -Robert


I would definitely agree on the demo material. My Local best buy has their Best Buy demo running on the tv. This demo is a mess of garbage and advertisements. It doesn't show off the tv at all.

On a side note when I revisited my local store the TV looked better than it did a couple of weeks ago with deeper blacks than it had before. I would still low to see the TV properly calibrated and in a dark room.


----------



## Homethrstud

Homethrstud said:


> I would definitely agree on the demo material. My Local best buy has their Best Buy demo running on the tv. This demo is a mess of garbage and advertisements. It doesn't show off the tv at all.
> 
> On a side note when I revisited my local store the TV looked better than it did a couple of weeks ago with deeper blacks than it had before. I would still low to see the TV properly calibrated and in a dark room.


Edit:
I would "love" to see the tv properly calibrated and in a dark room.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Robert Zohn said:


> Homethrstud, good point and this is certinely true, but I would like to add the following reasons for low sales volume in MHT. Here's my take for the many folks I've spoken to who have visited many of the MHT stores across America.
> 
> First, is the content they are showing is poorly mastered BD. Mostly Superman and other poor transfers. They should be demonstrating the Elite demo BD disc or any other BD that is reference quality.
> 
> Second, is that most stores have the TV set in the wrong mode, some are in vivid and other poorly set-up modes. The Elite TV naturally delivers a very bright image and does not need to be put in a bright mode.
> 
> Third, is that only a fraction of the MHT sales reps know how to properly present this TV.
> 
> And finally, very few MHT stores discount this TV and those that do offer only small incentives. MHT does not get enough of the video enthusiasts traffic who understand this TV and want to buy it to achieve enough sales on this specialized TV, so to create more market acceptance they need extensive training in video to properly present this very special TV.
> 
> At our store we see a fair amount of normal folks who are interested in a premium TV buying the Elite after a good education on how and why the Elite TV outperforms all other TVs in high, medium and low ambient light conditions. We properly demonstrate all of the Elite TV benefits.
> 
> This TV needs to be in an TV friendly environment, with the right content playing that is conducive to best demonstrate TVs, set-up properly and well presented.
> 
> -Robert


The reason I would never buy from MHT or Best Buy is the same reason I've never dropped a dime at Circuit City, Walmart, etc. These companies have no interest in customer support and do not pay a living wage or provide basic benefits to their employees. I would rather pay more to purchase my product from a store that I know takes care of its people and profit is not the #1 motive. If I buy a TV from you, Robert, I know that a good portion of that profit is going back into your store, to your employees, and to your family. If I buy a TV at MHT, I know that the people selling them make very little and the vast majority of profit goes up the chain and into some executive's pocket. That's not how I roll.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Spiff69 said:


> +1 - One thing I've noticed after owning the set for a week or so is how the multitude of controls can affect a viewing experience. Something as simple as the OPC and a bad video mode can definitely make one question the price tag.


I have no trouble with OPC. In fact, I find it a very useful feature to keep the brightness at just the right level despite varying light levels in the room at different times of the day. What sorts of issues have you experienced with OPC?


----------



## trcnet

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I have no trouble with OPC. In fact, I find it a very useful feature to keep the brightness at just the right level despite varying light levels in the room at different times of the day. What sorts of issues have you experienced with OPC?


Hello AZREO,

May I suggest trying an experiment. Watch the Blu-Ray movie of your choice with OPC on and then with it off. I think you'll be surprised at the improvement. I know I was.

best,
Tom


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

trcnet said:


> Hello AZREO,
> 
> May I suggest trying an experiment. Watch the Blu-Ray movie of your choice with OPC on and then with it off. I think you'll be surprised at the improvement. I know I was.
> 
> best,
> Tom


Okay, I will give it a shot. Does OPC affect more than just the perceived brightness of the picture?


----------



## trcnet

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Okay, I will give it a shot. Does OPC affect more than just the perceived brightness of the picture?


Hi AZREO,

Thank you for your open minded response.

I think it best to let a more tech savvy Elite owner answer your question for a technical explanation of OPC's processing of the picture. Depended on the room lighting and the particular scene I find with OPC off the overall picture just has more pop especially with respect to color without going over the top. With OPC on it seems to dull and mute the picture too much. 

best,
Tom


----------



## Spiff69

To be fair, I turned off opc off on the first day and haven't looked back. However, in that initial viewing, I very much disliked having the brightness changing automatically. It kind of steps up and down and is obviously affected whenever someone just turns on a light. My viewing environment just never gets so bright that I feel my image isn't bright enough and I need it automatically corrected.


----------



## trcnet

AZREO, I did a little checking and I noticed you enjoy your Elite with the IVC set to 'advanced low'. I can then see how OPC being 'on' may indeed work for you. In my case I have IVC set to 'local dimming on'.

best


----------



## aleicgrant

Its hours away from.arriving and I cant sleep a wink!!! thanks again to my dear dear friends at VE


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

trcnet said:


> AZREO, I did a little checking and I noticed you enjoy your Elite with the IVC set to 'advanced low'. I can then see how OPC being 'on' may indeed work for you. In my case I have IVC set to 'local dimming on'.
> 
> best


Actually I now prefer Advanced MID because it compensates for reduced brightness when FluidMotion is enabled. I have FluidMotion enabled for all content - it works very nicely. OPC on or off made no difference at night, but during the day it gives the image increased brightness. My TV is located in our upstairs loft, which generally receives a lot of light during the day. I also think the success to which you can use OPC also depends on the OPC Range setting. If you have too wide a range, OPC can suck the life out of your picture. I have set it to a smaller range, which gives me just enough variation in picture brightness between a dark and bright room.

I've had TV sets in the past with light sensors, but never used them. The Elite's implementation seems more intelligent and can be fine tuned.


----------



## Radtech51

aleicgrant said:


> Its hours away from.arriving and I cant sleep a wink!!! thanks again to my dear dear friends at VE


Grats buddy were all excited for you, welcome to the ELITE club!


----------



## Dragon81

Robert,

Have you heard anything new about the cyan fix?


----------



## trcnet

aleicgrant said:


> Its hours away from.arriving and I cant sleep a wink!!! thanks again to my dear dear friends at VE


Enjoy!!!:clap:


----------



## aleicgrant

well the wait is officially over. The driver was 8 hours late but so worth it. Now only one little niggle. I looked high, I looked low, I look middle, I looked left and right but for the life of me cannot find the 3d glasses. 
Are they a mail in thing now? Then again I dont see any form if that's the case..............This is just my luck.

Any recent buyer find its a rebate form opposed to being in the box

Wait, just re-read the box and it clearly says 2 glasses inside :-(


----------



## DYAUS

The glasses came with my 60x5fd and they were located in one of the big white foam packaging pieces that were on the top part of the tv when you open it. You may have missed them as they tend to blend in with the white packaging foam and have a nice snug compartment they slide into. The boxes that the glasses come in are white as well so it may be easy for some to miss. Hope that helps


----------



## aleicgrant

well after looking at all the Styrofoam and rebuilding it I can see where you are talking about. Sadly no glasses. 

Well I guess its a call to the Elite concierge. Hope its a quick reply.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Hey guys... Remember I've been saying about a white flash issue that randomly happens particularly in darker scenes? In either case, I just quickly shot it on my camera phone so you get an idea.. I just posted it on YouTube.. It's near the end of the quick clip... Any help is appreciated because I don't know if my TV is defective... thanks!


----------



## DYAUS

From what I saw its just the content you were viewing. Probably a bad feed from your dish provider or cable company. But if you see that while watching blu ray content I would definitely be concerned.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Hey guys... Remember I've been saying about a white flash issue that randomly happens particularly in darker scenes? In either case, I just quickly shot it on my camera phone so you get an idea.. I just posted it on YouTube.. It's near the end of the quick clip... Any help is appreciated because I don't know if my TV is defective... thanks!


Mike, does that happen with all sources or just cable? Have you checked your HDMI cable? If all other things are good, it looks like a display problem.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Ken Ross said:


> Mike, does that happen with all sources or just cable? Have you checked your HDMI cable? If all other things are good, it looks like a display problem.


I bought those overpriced Audioquest HDMI cables from best buy in Feb 2011 for my Samsung 65C8000 before it eventually crapped out. When that TV was working, I didn't have those issues I'm having with the Elite. I'm thinking it's something to with the local dimming/zones under a dark scene. This blows! :-(


----------



## Airgas1998

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I bought those overpriced Audioquest HDMI cables from best buy in Feb 2011 for my Samsung 65C8000 before it eventually crapped out. When that TV was working, I didn't have those issues I'm having with the Elite. I'm thinking it's something to with the local dimming/zones under a dark scene. This blows! :-(


turn ld off, if you experience know issues with it deactivated it probably is somehow ld related.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I bought those overpriced Audioquest HDMI cables from best buy in Feb 2011 for my Samsung 65C8000 before it eventually crapped out. When that TV was working, I didn't have those issues I'm having with the Elite. I'm thinking it's something to with the local dimming/zones under a dark scene. This blows! :-(


Mike, I didn't see you comment on this before, so is this something new?


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Ken Ross said:


> Mike, I didn't see you comment on this before, so is this something new?


I mentioned this issue when someone else had an issue with the flickering. I thought they were originally talking about what I was experiencing as per the video I just attached. In turns out my issue is way different. I made a case file for this. Just hope everything turns out or the better. I feel better knowing I got the Value Electronics Conceirge Service as an added bonus. ;-)


----------



## aleicgrant

Suzook said:


> Ok finally up and running. Got mounted along with my sunfire cinema ribbons
> 
> Using Ken's setting is very good so far.
> 
> Watching toy story 3 the first thing that jumps out at me is how amazing the colors are.
> 
> More to come as my new HSU arrives tomorow and then breaking out the Onkyo 5009.
> 
> Going to be a fun weekend
> 
> Glasses are def not in box or anywhere to be found. Can only hope sharp is quick with replacements


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Got a call back from Elite... They're going to remote into my TV tonight.. They said they have a firmware update particularly for flickering... Will let you know more later today when I get home from work


----------



## Robert Zohn

Very cool Mike. 

-Robert


----------



## jeffmule

Robert Zohn said:


> Very cool Mike.
> 
> -Robert


Robert, do you price match?


----------



## mjgallo

Where can I find the Discrete Power for the pro-70x5fd? Trying to automate a system and just can't seem to find it.:huh:


----------



## Robert Zohn

jeffmule said:


> Robert, do you price match?


Yes ^^.

-Robert



mjgallo said:


> Where can I find the Discrete Power for the pro-70x5fd? Trying to automate a system and just can't seem to find it.:huh:


Send me an email request and I email back with instructions and the codes. [email protected]

-Robert


----------



## lcaillo

Robert Zohn said:


> Yes ^^.
> -Robert


Maybe he price matches, but I bet he doesn't VALUE match!

What I mean is, even if you got the same price on the same product from Robert as from somewhere else, for the same delivered product and condition, you would still have more value because he would be there to answer questions, to provide support, to back up the sale, etc. And he delivers BEFORE the sale, with information and context on the products that is unmatched, as can be seen in his contribution in the forums.

Price matching is a concept that really applies to those who provide commodities. It is really a misnomer when dealing with a vendor like Robert.

I worked in the industry for three decades in sales and service for two of the best dealers to ever exist in the consumer electronics business and took great pride in the service and value that we provided. I would have been proud to say that I worked for Robert. There are few, if any, dealers these days that deliver the value that he does, even in a market that is as brutal and competive as they get.


----------



## jeffmule

Robert Zohn said:


> Yes ^^.
> 
> -Robert


Wow, thats great to hear. I would like to purchase form no other place than your store as I know how good a person you are from members of this forum. Price matching places like Amazon is just icing on the cake! I am waiting until CES to make a decision on whether to buy a 2011 or 2012 model + get them calibrated by your store, but either way you will get my business sir.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Got a call back from Elite... They're going to remote into my TV tonight.. They said they have a firmware update particularly for flickering... Will let you know more later today when I get home from work


I wonder when this fix will be made available to the public and if it will be combined with the color fix?


----------



## lynskyn

Ken Ross said:


> I wonder when this fix will be made available to the public and if it will be combined with the color fix?


The firmware update on their site (214U1110031) mentions "reduction of flicker on some content" so maybe it's that one which has no color fix. I wish they would release that so I could get mine calibrated.


----------



## rab-byte

I've been ignoring this thread for awhile but please if some, once the FW is released, could give a good evaluation it would be great.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

I just got FW version 215.... Hoping for the best that this will work.. In the meantime, I'm going to check if this is the color fix..


----------



## Airgas1998

lynskyn said:


> The firmware update on their site (214U1110031) mentions "reduction of flicker on some content" so maybe it's that one which has no color fix. I wish they would release that so I could get mine calibrated.


214 has no impact at all on my pulsing. there is a beta 215 out there,hopefully will see this released soon.


----------



## Airgas1998

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I just got FW version 215.... Hoping for the best that this will work.. In the meantime, I'm going to check if this is the color fix..


assuming you went to there ftp server site, would you be so kind to allow access for us having this issue as well. we would need your username and password of course. i had this access when 213 was beta but my password has expired.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Airgas1998 said:


> assuming you went to there ftp server site, would you be so kind to allow access for us having this issue as well. we would need your username and password of course. i had this access when 213 was beta but my password has expired.


No problem.. I won't be home till later tonight... Just PM me


----------



## Ken Ross

The nice thing about this potential fix is a) Sharp took the time to investigate it b) They apparently were able to reproduce it and c) They may have come up with a fix for it. 

That's more than I can say for some other manufacturers out there!


----------



## tripplej

Ken Ross said:


> That's more than I can say for some other manufacturers out there!


I agree 1 thousand percent! Way to go Sharp.. 

Much better customer support then the other manufacturers (name withheld for their privacy)


----------



## trcnet

tripplej said:


> I agree 1 thousand percent! Way to go Sharp..
> 
> Much better customer support then the other manufacturers (name withheld for their privacy)


...... well at least pertaining to the Elite brand ......

best,
Tom


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Ken Ross said:


> I wonder when this fix will be made available to the public and if it will be combined with the color fix?


It doesn't look like it contains the color fix. I checked out Tron which shows the suits in Blue, not a greenish tone as what we saw on other TVs at the shootout. I did have your setting on when viewing in THX mode. I'm going to restore the original settings to see if there is a difference. I sent you a PM to check the update yourself as well.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Mike, did the FW fix the fluctuations? How was the service experience?

-Robert


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Robert Zohn said:


> Mike, did the FW fix the fluctuations? How was the service experience?
> 
> -Robert


I need to test some more content, but haven't seen anything yet. Sharp told me they will call me on Monday to see if the update worked. They sounded very confident that FW update fixes exactly what I was experiencing. Makes me wonder though when they're going to give the update to fix the color issue though. It doesn't appear it's fixed in 215. Quick question, before Kevin, D-Nice and Ed calibrated the TVs for the shootout, did you or them notice the Tron movie to be more blue than green. If not, then this FW update definitely doesn't seem to fix it. In the calibrated mode, it was more green than blue.


----------



## Ken Ross

A question: Will implementing this beta update in any way interfere with the color update when it comes? IOW, will that color update look at the software version on the TV and think 'hmm, this isn't the version # is should be'. I may be totally off-base here.


----------



## aleicgrant

lcaillo said:


> Maybe he price matches, but I bet he doesn't VALUE match!
> 
> What I mean is, even if you got the same price on the same product from Robert as from somewhere else, for the same delivered product and condition, you would still have more value because he would be there to answer questions, to provide support, to back up the sale, etc. And he delivers BEFORE the sale, with information and context on the products that is unmatched, as can be seen in his contribution in the forums.
> 
> Price matching is a concept that really applies to those who provide commodities. It is really a misnomer when dealing with a vendor like Robert.
> 
> I worked in the industry for three decades in sales and service for two of the best dealers to ever exist in the consumer electronics business and took great pride in the service and value that we provided. I would have been proud to say that I worked for Robert. There are few, if any, dealers these days that deliver the value that he does, even in a market that is as brutal and competive as they get.


I dont think I could have said any better..unless of course I said it myself. Robert you know I love marketing and I think value match is something you should trade mark!!


----------



## Theatredaz

Quick review on the Elite

* Well had the TV working last night...was unable to get any decent viewing in any other modes (elite pure~...picture was pixelated and washed and crushed with artifacts...had to sit 13ft from the TV for it to improve...this was not an option since I'm seated only 7-10ft from the display)...finally switched to THX mode and that's when everything finally changed> upped the back light to add some more pop to the image...and pure picture (color edge enhancement) and the TV was simply Spectacular...I mostly tested my DVD rips (good quallty encodes) Tested They Live first...the first time I tested it...it was poorly articulated on the screen...the second time in THX mode was a little more stunning...excellent photo realism with no pixelating caused by near feild retinal dilation of the pixels (what ever that means)...opened another file _undercover brother DVD...even more stunnning with even better photo realism and HD depth and pop...went on to test all my DVD encodes and they where all sharp consistent and had black levels that enhanced the depth of picture viewing dramatically!.


Bluray encodes where just as stunning> Kung Fu panda had amazing Dark dungeony color caliber that showed realism to the chained Tiger that enigmated a real creature! Pulp Fictions opening credits where just as stunning...no haloing or artifacts what so ever just amazing consistent black levels that and color pop. All my video content is pushed through a scaler (dvdo) and all movie`encodes just look very real and watchable...off angle viewing was nothing distracting enough to complain about...The display has a cool Nasa type light filter you can immediatly notice when you see how it tints and diffuses white light from the room..so the reflections are managable and never too distracting.


On another note: The display I received had a glitch that caused the display to show a Blue bar grid that covered the entire screen :blink:, the power supply went shot and wouldn`t shut the TV down immediatly. (have to exchange for another unit)...Elite rep will clarify what the repair was for the TV...so it seems that some Elite sets out there might be refurbished models in the future.


----------



## rab-byte

Theatredaz said:


> Quick review on the Elite
> 
> * Well had the TV working last night...was unable to get any decent viewing in any other modes (elite pure~...picture was pixelated and washed and crushed with artifacts...had to sit 13ft from the TV for it to improve...this was not an option since I'm seated only 7-10ft from the display)...finally switched to THX mode and that's when everything finally changed> upped the back light to add some more pop to the image...and pure picture (color edge enhancement) and the TV was simply Spectacular...I mostly tested my DVD rips (good quallty encodes) Tested They Live first...the first time I tested it...it was poorly articulated on the screen...the second time in THX mode was a little more stunning...excellent photo realism with no pixelating caused by near feild retinal dilation of the pixels (what ever that means)...opened another file _undercover brother DVD...even more stunnning with even better photo realism and HD depth and pop...went on to test all my DVD encodes and they where all sharp consistent and had black levels that enhanced the depth of picture viewing dramatically!.
> 
> Bluray encodes where just as stunning> Kung Fu panda had amazing Dark dungeony color caliber that showed realism to the chained Tiger that enigmated a real creature! Pulp Fictions opening credits where just as stunning...no haloing or artifacts what so ever just amazing consistent black levels that and color pop. All my video content is pushed through a scaler (dvdo) and all movie`encodes just look very real and watchable...off angle viewing was nothing distracting enough to complain about...The display has a cool Nasa type light filter you can immediatly notice when you see how it tints and diffuses white light from the room..so the reflections are managable and never too distracting.
> 
> On another note: The display I received had a glitch that caused the display to show a Blue bar grid that covered the entire screen :blink:, the power supply went shot and wouldn`t shut the TV down immediatly. (have to exchange for another unit)...Elite rep will clarify what the repair was for the TV...so it seems that some Elite sets out there might be refurbished models in the future.


That is very unfortunate. It sounds like your experience didn't live up too the hype. 

That said I have to say that doesn't sound like the experiences of anyone else do far. You may have just gotten a dud. As for people getting refurbs; while you may find them for sale I have zero expectation that sharp will start selling them as new. 

BTW were did you get your set from?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Theatredaz said:


> Quick review on the Elite
> 
> * Well had the TV working last night...was unable to get any decent viewing in any other modes (elite pure~...picture was pixelated and washed and crushed with artifacts...had to sit 13ft from the TV for it to improve...this was not an option since I'm seated only 7-10ft from the display)...finally switched to THX mode and that's when everything finally changed> upped the back light to add some more pop to the image...and pure picture (color edge enhancement) and the TV was simply Spectacular...I mostly tested my DVD rips (good quallty encodes) Tested They Live first...the first time I tested it...it was poorly articulated on the screen...the second time in THX mode was a little more stunning...excellent photo realism with no pixelating caused by near feild retinal dilation of the pixels (what ever that means)...opened another file _undercover brother DVD...even more stunnning with even better photo realism and HD depth and pop...went on to test all my DVD encodes and they where all sharp consistent and had black levels that enhanced the depth of picture viewing dramatically!.
> 
> 
> Bluray encodes where just as stunning> Kung Fu panda had amazing Dark dungeony color caliber that showed realism to the chained Tiger that enigmated a real creature! Pulp Fictions opening credits where just as stunning...no haloing or artifacts what so ever just amazing consistent black levels that and color pop. All my video content is pushed through a scaler (dvdo) and all movie`encodes just look very real and watchable...off angle viewing was nothing distracting enough to complain about...The display has a cool Nasa type light filter you can immediatly notice when you see how it tints and diffuses white light from the room..so the reflections are managable and never too distracting.
> 
> 
> On another note: The display I received had a glitch that caused the display to show a Blue bar grid that covered the entire screen :blink:, the power supply went shot and wouldn`t shut the TV down immediatly. (have to exchange for another unit)...Elite rep will clarify what the repair was for the TV...so it seems that some Elite sets out there might be refurbished models in the future.


If you are running your a/v sources through a receiver/switcher, you will want to make sure your HDMI is set to "pass-thru" or similar mode and not doing anything to alter the HDMI stream. Having a mismatched setting here can cause a washed out, or otherwise crummy picture. Also recommended is to have your Blu-Ray set to YCbCr output.


----------



## Theatredaz

AZREOSpecialist said:


> If you are running your a/v sources through a receiver/switcher, you will want to make sure your HDMI is set to "pass-thru" or similar mode and not doing anything to alter the HDMI stream. Having a mismatched setting here can cause a washed out, or otherwise crummy picture. Also recommended is to have your Blu-Ray set to YCbCr output.



**ATTN: Possible Glitch with TV set.

As of today the set does not have the Blue Grid any longer>>>The set is functioning normally with no picture de-gradation or otherwise.

I turned on the set this morning and left in on all day!??> sounds strange but when I went down stairs I found the display was showing a normal color picture. I did not unplug or alter any picture settings on the TV or on my scaler.

The set has the best blacks. excellent contrast capabilities everything that has to do with brightness settings is just within the threshold of clipping(if that is a term).

I will most probably be sending it back anyways to exchange it for a 60" model...Some poorly encoded movies come out blocky at 9ft but sharpen up at 12-14FT back...so the set is still amazing!


Last night while the set had the grid lines, I did a firmware update...but don't think it is the reason the display is functioning again> the blue grids where overlayed a black screen> might be some 3D mapping screen...If you tap on the display( which I did) the display sparks a white light...like static a static charge going off.

I hope this will be adressed in a firmware update so no-one else will get this problem, if it is software related.:gulp:


----------



## Theatredaz

* Note: the display now works possible Gllitch with the display.

I tuned on the set this morning and left it on for about 5-6 hours> when I went to see the display the Bllue grid lines where not there>>>the display is functioning normally again?

So farthe displays picture is stunning...despite the fact that there was this image maping problem that caused the display to short or somthing...the now working panel is still simply stunning...

This set is amazing, but it is too large with my sitting distance...will have to go with the 60" model...since this display shows the most consitent sharp image at about 12-14ft back. 2ft more than where my seating is.

I have no regrets so far...and am still wondering why the display suddenly is working...if you have ever watched the outer limits...the start of the show looks similar to what the display's grid lines looked like , horizontal and vertical. I even took a few snap shots if anyone wants to see this anomaly.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

If I could, I would sit with my nose pressed up against my 70". Just saying!


----------



## rab-byte

Post your pics we can try to give you some feed back.


----------



## Theatredaz

rab-byte said:


> Post your pics we can try to give you some feed back.



* I cannot upload some good pictures of the display working because I am limited in pixel/and file size thus reducing the effect.

Here is the image of the Glitch.


----------



## JClam

Theatredaz said:


> * I cannot upload some good pictures of the display working because I am limited in pixel/and file size thus reducing the effect.
> 
> Here is the image of the Glitch.
> 
> 
> View attachment 33594


HDMI handshaking issue? I have all of my sources HDMI into my SC57 receiver and HDMI out to my 70X5 and sometimes they don't handshake properly. I have to power off the receiver and power back on and it always comes back. Trying to decide if its the tv or receiver's issue, but I get a screen full of junk when it happens, not the same as yours, but...Describe please what's plugged into what in your setup?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

HDMI may be the culprit, or the source component may be sending a signal to the TV that is causing syncing issues? I had some weird image distortion recently and thought it was the TV, until I rebooted my Dish DVR which resolved the problem. I could even see it on the DVR menus - a horizontal sheering of the image - and it was something going on with the DVR's signal over HDMI. I also notice that my 6 year old Denon receiver, unless changed from default setting, sends a signal when you hit the "menu" button to which the Elite cannot properly synchronize. I end up with a black screen unless I force the receiver into 720p or 1080i mode. This is just for menus, not for video content, which passes through just fine.


----------



## Theatredaz

I unplugged all HDMI cables etc...what I did do is unplug my scaler and plugged it directly into my satbox...and left it on where the Grid disapeared after 4 hours? The re-plugged my scaler and all works fine now?

I can see handshaking issues with HDMI> My scaler reads the Elite as a Pioneer display.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Hi guys... I did more research on the firmware update. I used bluray content from the movie Limitless. If you have it, please select the "Unrated Version" at the menu and then go to chapter 11. The flash issue happens at between 44:16 - 44:18 per my Pioneer BRP. The scene is where Bradley Cooper is dancing with some black woman on the dancefloor. It looks like my TV needs to be replaced. Let me know if you see the same thing. I tried changing the tv modes and played with the settings but produced the same results. So far, it's come up while watching Cable and bluray. It must be the display.


----------



## rab-byte

Ya hdmi is a funny thing sometimes. I've seen individual cables work with one device and not another. Some times even the power on sequence affects performance. 

Some times my sencor even needs to be tricked into connecting with Panasonic TVs. 

But yes to echo others, that looks like an edid issue with your HDMI cable or devices.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Hi guys... I did more research on the firmware update. I used bluray content from the movie Limitless. If you have it, please select the "Unrated Version" at the menu and then go to chapter 11. The flash issue happens at between 44:16 - 44:18 per my Pioneer BRP. The scene is where Bradley Cooper is dancing with some black woman on the dancefloor. It looks like my TV needs to be replaced. Let me know if you see the same thing. I tried changing the tv modes and played with the settings but produced the same results. So far, it's come up while watching Cable and bluray. It must be the display.


Mike, I didn't try the update since Airgas reported it actually increased the frequency of the pulse. So I decided to leave it alone for now. I can't see mine in THX mode anyway.

Unfortunately I don't have that movie on hand.


----------



## JimP

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Hi guys... I did more research on the firmware update. I used bluray content from the movie Limitless. If you have it, please select the "Unrated Version" at the menu and then go to chapter 11. The flash issue happens at between 44:16 - 44:18 per my Pioneer BRP. The scene is where Bradley Cooper is dancing with some black woman on the dancefloor. It looks like my TV needs to be replaced. Let me know if you see the same thing. I tried changing the tv modes and played with the settings but produced the same results. So far, it's come up while watching Cable and bluray. It must be the display.


Any chance it's the BluRay player?


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

JimP said:


> Any chance it's the BluRay player?


 Doubt it since this issue also happens when watching cable tv.


----------



## DYAUS

I will be receiving my 70X5FD around the 30th and wanted to get an articulating wall mount for it. Does anyone have any suggestions on one that would work well in the 250.00 to 300.00 range? Or has anyone used an articulating wall mount on this set already and have any advice? Thanks everyone


----------



## rab-byte

Down load the user manual and check the bolt pattern for the TV and the weight. 

Use that to find a mount. When you hang the TV you need to figure out how high the bracket will be relative to top/bottom of the TV relative you how high you want the TV. Get long cables. If you're wall fishing or otherwise hiding your cords then those cables get short quick!

I like the TV to be around, or slightly above center for eye level then tilted down to meet your field of vision. 

Measure twice cut once.


----------



## treky11

Well just thought I would let you all know that I got my 70 from Robert on Saturday. I love it!

In addition his service was top notch, i purchased it late Friday and he made sure I had it on Saturday so I could enjoy it for the weekend. I also picked up a Elite SC57 and an Oppo BDP95. 

I am thrilled with the setup and the pic is amazing. Calibration was included in Robert's service / sale and I will have that done in a few weeks.


----------



## Theatredaz

* The shop i purchased mine from will calibrate my display for free as well...does anyone know much about how calibration works on this display?...does it mean all other picture functions are disabled? Or can you still choose THX,Elite Pure modes etc. Calibrating the dislay definatly improves the picture and consistancy of the image.


----------



## cssldr

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I have also purchased a 60X5FD and the OPPO 95. I'm waiting for carpet to be installed so I can put everything together. I have an older Marantz SR9200 receiver so I have to run 5.1 for the surround.......But I can't wait to hear the 2 channel audio off the OPPO.

How far are all of you sitting from the screen? 

Congrats to all on their new TV - happy thanksgiving!


Charlie


----------



## donnymac

Theatredaz said:


> * The shop i purchased mine from will calibrate my display for free as well...does anyone know much about how calibration works on this display?...does it mean all other picture functions are disabled? Or can you still choose THX,Elite Pure modes etc. Calibrating the dislay definatly improves the picture and consistancy of the image.


After calibration you can watch any picture mode you desire. But why would you watch anything other than the calibrated mode?


----------



## rab-byte

donnymac said:


> After calibration you can watch any picture mode you desire. But why would you watch anything other than the calibrated mode?


Some people like an inaccurate but more dynamic picture for sports when there is more light in the room.


----------



## donnymac

rab-byte said:


> Some people like an inaccurate but more dynamic picture for sports when there is more light in the room.


For those customers who have a lot of light in the daytime I calibrate a day and night mode. For those that like inaccurate colors they shouldn't waste their money on a calibration. A calibration is to make the display accurate to an industry standard and not for customer preference. Although customer approval is always required before the calibration is complete.


----------



## lcaillo

I suggest spinning off the discussion about what calibration means, or should mean, to a new thread in the Calibration forum. This could be a very important discussion in its own right. Let's keep this thread focused on these sets and the calibration options and recommendations for them specifically.


----------



## trcnet

cssldr said:


> Hi, I'm new to this forum. I have also purchased a 60X5FD and the OPPO 95. I'm waiting for carpet to be installed so I can put everything together. I have an older Marantz SR9200 receiver so I have to run 5.1 for the surround.......But I can't wait to hear the 2 channel audio off the OPPO.
> 
> How far are all of you sitting from the screen?
> 
> Congrats to all on their new TV - happy thanksgiving!
> 
> 
> Charlie


Congratulations to you too Charlie! Hope you get as much enjoyment from your 60X5FD as I do mine. My sitting distance is 9' -11'. 

best,
Tom


----------



## Theatredaz

rab-byte said:


> Some people like an inaccurate but more dynamic picture for sports when there is more light in the room.


I believe calibration is important, I've got an LG set where I calibrated the 10Point IRE settings, the difference in image retentionn is as night and day, colors need to be adjusted for sharp consitent image. Otherwise it can seem washed out and fuzzy.


----------



## JimP

rab-byte said:


> Some people like an inaccurate but more dynamic picture for sports when there is more light in the room.


I think you'd be surprised at the number of poor calibrations that are done.

A few years ago I visited what was suppose to be a high end home theater store where obviously almost all their displays were calibrated using the same out of spec meter.


----------



## mechman

treky11 said:


> Calibration was included in Robert's service / sale and I will have that done in a few weeks.


Wait until the firmware comes out for the Cyan issue. Otherwise it will have to be calibrated again. :T More than likely, this is Robert's plan.


----------



## rab-byte

JimP said:


> I think you'd be surprised at the number of poor calibrations that are done.
> 
> A few years ago I visited what was suppose to be a high end home theater store where obviously almost all their displays were calibrated using the same out of spec meter.


You're right about that. A calibrator should always keep their equipment up to date. I'm just saying that reference is not always what a client wants 100% of the time. 

More dynamic modes can help with one off situations like mid-day Sunday games where the rooms lighting is more unique then regular viewing. Separate from typical day/night/movie viewing. 




lcaillo said:


> I suggest spinning off the discussion about what calibration means, or should mean, to a new thread in the Calibration forum. This could be a very important discussion in its own right. Let's keep this thread focused on these sets and the calibration options and recommendations for them specifically.


Agreed and I'll start a thread about said topic later.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

It's been awfully quiet at Elite HQ since I sent them a second video showing the fix didn't work. I wonder what they're going to do for me. I just don't want to get screwed. If it's a defective TV that can't be fixed by FW, I don't want it repaired. I want it replaced. I swear I have no luck with equipment sometimes.


----------



## cssldr

Thank's Tom,

I'll be at 13-15' away from the center. Off angle seating will be about 10'.


----------



## Robert Zohn

cssldr, You will have almost no picture quality loss on the 60" and absolutely no perceivable loss on the 70".

I have the 70" at home and both the 60" and 70" on display i our store. We test off axes viewing every day on all of the panels in our display showroom and shoot-out wall. You should test it when you visit your favorite Elite TV dealer.

-Robert


----------



## cssldr

Robert,

To clarify, are you saying that my center distance from the set will also effect a picture loss? I am aware of color intensity dropping from the side. Why is the 60" worse than the 70"?

Unfortunately my dealer does not yet have an Elite panel on display. I've had to see this at Best Buy. 

Charlie


----------



## dsskid

Any word on a fix for the color decoder issue?


----------



## trcnet

Hi Charlie.

You will have no loss of picture quality whatsoever at dead center from that distance. Because of their sheer size bigger panels tend to have better off axis viewing qualities at greater distances. I'm sure Robert and some of the other posters will be able to give you a more detailed response on this topic.

best,
Tom


----------



## cssldr

Thanks

I noticed a difference between center and off-axis viewing only when comparing the two positions. IMO this TV has very good of axis viewing. The average viewer should not notice this.

I do not like bright LCD screens. I found the off axis to be more "plasma like", but a cartoon was playing - How do you know the colors are off on a cartoon you have not seen before?

I'm rambling now - I won't have it for Thanksgiving


----------



## waltermb

wonder if anyone has done a detailed compare between these new elites and the 141 which as i read may have been the best screen ever made. also any views on these vs the samsung plazmas which are getting very good reviews about half the price. thanks


----------



## rab-byte

There was a shoot out awhile back Samsung plasma and vt30 were a part of it. Don't know about 141. 

I will say that it has pioneer beat for features.


----------



## trcnet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Charlie. In case you didn't run across these settings yet I wanted to suggest giving them a try. These are settings that Ken Ross had posted on the AVS forum. I along with quite a few others are having great success with Ken's settings. The only change I've made to these was to have Motion Flow set to 120hz-low instead of off. Hope they work for you.

enjoy


Mode- MovieTHX

Local Dimming- On
OPC- Off
Backlight- Standard
Contrast +32
Brightness (-2)
Color +6
Tint 0
Sharpness +1

CMS Hue:
R (-4)
Y 0
G 0
C (-10)
B +10
M 0

CMS Saturation:
G +10
(all others at default)

CMS Value:
C (-5)
(all others at default)

Color Temp:
No changes

Motion Setting: Off

Precision Color: Off

Active Contrast: Off



Film: Off

DNR: Medium


----------



## cssldr

Thank you very much!!


----------



## waltermb

not clear what you meant----was the samsung top of the line plazma the winner vs the panasonic and vs the elite? i had my plan to buy the old elite until the new one came out--and now with the huge price difference i am wondering if anyone has a view of the new elite vs the 8000 samsung plasma. i looked at them near each other and both looked excellent, but wonder if anyone did a more technical overview. at half the price of the small elite it makes me wonder what i get for double the price. any imput appreciated.


----------



## dsskid

Unless you want 3d, I'd get the Pioneer Elite.


----------



## treky11

dsskid said:


> Unless you want 3d, I'd get the Pioneer Elite.


The elite has fantastic 3d. Not sure what you mean.


----------



## DJG

Hi all, I'm about to join the ranks here, hopefully tomorrow if things go as scheduled and my 70X5FD gets delivered. Currently I have an LG 55LE8500 fed by a Radiance XD I got recently at an obscenely ridiculous price. I've been quite happy with the LE8500 - the black level and shadow detail are very good and the color is natural but poppy. I did try to get used to the banding but finally decided it was time. In a way I'm glad for the banding otherwise I wouldn't have had a good excuse to get the Elite .

Prepping for the Elite I just did a grey-scale calibration for the LG using the CalMAN DIY interface to the Radiance CMS and wow, it did make a noticeable difference. So I'm looking forward to this drive-in in my den (actually much better than a drive-in).

The rest of my HT comprises of an Oppo 83 SE and DirecTV DVR as video sources to the Radiance, a B&K 50 S2 preamp/tuner using the analogs for the Oppo, Sony TA-N9000ES power amp driving Apogee Centaur ribbon hybrid fronts and MartinLogan EM-C2 center, and an Adcom GFA-545 power amp modified by Musical Concepts driving Polk 11t rears, mostly ancient stuff but amazingly somehow still sounding great in spite of heavy use. I did have to replace the woofers on the Centaurs a few months ago.

Happy Thanksgiving, and my condolences to the poor turkeys (I'm a vegetarian )

DJ

Oops! Forgot the ol' REL Strata II subwoofer!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Congrats DJ and welcome aboard HTS! Looking forward to hearing your evaluation after you've had a chance to set-up the Elite.

This site is an excellent place to communicate and get support that will help you and all of us get the most out of our new Elite TVs. 

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## dsskid

treky11 said:


> The elite has fantastic 3d. Not sure what you mean.


You would know what I meant if you actually read what I wrote. I wrote *Pioneer* Elite.


----------



## treky11

dsskid said:


> You would know what I meant if you actually read what I wrote. I wrote *Pioneer* Elite.


I did read what you wrote. "Unless you want 3d, I'd get the Pioneer Elite."

The PIONEER Elite that I have and that everyone in this thread is discussing has 3d. So why would you suggest that if he wants 3d he needs something else?


----------



## treky11

Robert,

Any news on the timing for the release of the firmware update for the cyan issue?


----------



## mechman

treky11 said:


> I did read what you wrote. "Unless you want 3d, I'd get the Pioneer Elite."
> 
> The PIONEER Elite that I have and that everyone in this thread is discussing has 3d. So why would you suggest that if he wants 3d he needs something else?


Actually, this thread is about the Sharp Elite.  Pioneer stopped making displays a couple of years ago. However they did license the Elite brand to Sharp for these displays. But they are Sharp, not Pioneer. :T None of the Pioneer Elite displays were 3D capable.


----------



## treky11

mechman said:


> Actually, this thread is about the Sharp Elite. Pioneer stopped making displays a couple of years ago. However they did license the Elite brand to Sharp for these displays. But they are Sharp, not Pioneer. :T None of the Pioneer Elite displays were 3D capable.


got it. guess that isn't clear / obvious to everyone. i realize sharp makes this but not everyone does and all the boxing / materials list it as a pioneer product. i thought that he may have thought the tv didn't have 3d. some people do think that's the case as the 80 sharp doesn't have 3d. when i was in MHT comparing the two sets i was talking to a person that was comparing the two sets as well, he thought neither of them had 3d. my intent was just to make sure that everyone realized the full capabilities of these sets, they are great products and should be enjoyed by all.

(and i didnt buy from MHT, I bought from Robert / Wendy who have been a pleasure to deal with)


----------



## mechman

treky11 said:


> i realize sharp makes this but not everyone does and all the boxing / materials *list it as a pioneer product*


Does it really? I did not know that. :scratch: That could lead to all the confusion. Maybe Sharp has to list it as a Pioneer Elite because of the licensing agreement? That would have to be a question for Robert though. :T


----------



## treky11

maybe i am wrong, i don't have the box anymore but i thought it did. either way it can be confusing because it does carry the Elite logo which Pioneer has trademarked. maybe that led to my confusion. 

i am sure sharp wanted it that way too! i am sure they wanted to associate the TV with the Pioneer products of the past as those sets have outstanding reputations and customer bases. 

either way, an honest misunderstanding. i am glad that i have mine and can enjoy all weekend rather than be out fighting the traffic and crowds.


----------



## JClam

treky11 said:


> maybe i am wrong, i don't have the box anymore but i thought it did. either way it can be confusing because it does carry the Elite logo which Pioneer has trademarked. maybe that led to my confusion.
> 
> i am sure sharp wanted it that way too! i am sure they wanted to associate the TV with the Pioneer products of the past as those sets have outstanding reputations and customer bases.
> 
> either way, an honest misunderstanding. i am glad that i have mine and can enjoy all weekend rather than be out fighting the traffic and crowds.


Just says Elite on the box, not Pioneer...see this link http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...o-70x5fd-discussion-thread-45.html#post461982


----------



## treky11

thanks jclam. guess i was wrong, not the first time and wont be last.

guess i am so used to the Elite logo being part of pioneer my mind just went there.

on a seperate note, can anyone confirm the the discrete IR codes for the inputs from the older Elite tvs work with the PRO-70X5FD with the current firmware? I know there is a beta firmware that adds discrete for power but I was sure about the inputs.


----------



## mechman

treky11 said:


> guess i am so used to the Elite logo being part of pioneer my mind just went there.


Very understandable. :T


----------



## Ken Ross

treky11 said:


> Robert,
> 
> Any news on the timing for the release of the firmware update for the cyan issue?


I haven't heard anything in awhile. Perhaps Robert has some later info?


----------



## Robert Zohn

I have a meeting scheduled for Tuesday ^^ and I'll post what I find out.

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

Robert Zohn said:


> I have a meeting scheduled for Tuesday ^^ and I'll post what I find out.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks Robert!


----------



## Theatredaz

* These displays are NOT Labeled as Sharp displays at all...

* My DVDO Edge is picking the TV up as a Pioneer TV Display> NO SHARP :blink:


----------



## lcaillo

treky11 said:


> thanks jclam. guess i was wrong, not the first time and wont be last.


We have all been mistaken at some point. I have proven that quite a few times. :doh:

What makes HTS different is that we can point out errors or misunderstandings without recriminations and vitriol, and we can all learn something and end up with greater mutual respect for it.



The fact that the Edge indicates a Pioneer display makes me wonder just how much of the firmware is from Pioneer. Must be more than I had assumed, though I can claim no experience with the sets at all since I have been out of the calibration business for over a year now. Has anyone else noticed this?


----------



## Ken Ross

lcaillo said:


> The fact that the Edge indicates a Pioneer display makes me wonder just how much of the firmware is from Pioneer. Must be more than I had assumed, though I can claim no experience with the sets at all since I have been out of the calibration business for over a year now. Has anyone else noticed this?


Well sort of in the same vein is the fact that when you search for devices that will trigger the Elite in Harmony's remote database, it's the Pioneer devices that work, not the Sharp.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

I received a call from Elite support regarding my background pulsing issue. They stated that the next firmware update (215...) will be released in 2 weeks. I don't know if this one contains the mythical "cyan fix", but hopefully it will address some of this pulsing business.


----------



## JimP

Any of you who attended the shootout....what did the calibrators use to generate the patterns to all the displays.

On the audio of the podcast, it sound something like they were using a computer but I'm not sure.


----------



## mechman

I believe it was a Quantum Data 780.










And FYI to all - I'm going to spin off the Samsung D8000 talk to it's own thread.


----------



## mechman

mechman said:


> And FYI to all - I'm going to spin off the Samsung D8000 talk to it's own thread.


Ooops! :doh: Disregard this. I meant to put this in the VX300 thread. Long day.


----------



## Airgas1998

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I received a call from Elite support regarding my background pulsing issue. They stated that the next firmware update (215...) will be released in 2 weeks. I don't know if this one contains the mythical "cyan fix", but hopefully it will address some of this pulsing business.


215 does not fix the pulsing issue, this has been comfirmed with me and other members as well.


----------



## 26point2

FYI, if anyone bought this TV at MHT (BB), they have an unadvertised special today only. Basically 10% off what it was yesterday. And they matched the price if you bought it less than 30 days ago.

I know this may hit East coast people a little late, but maybe the western time zones can get to it.


----------



## JimP

Airgas1998 said:


> 215 does not fix the pulsing issue, this has been comfirmed with me and other members as well.



What does it do?


----------



## Robert Zohn

I believe it was for what Mike DJ's and a few other folks have, the flashing in some dark scenes. But I believe it did not help with that either. I have a call scheduled for Tuesday and I'll report back what I find out. 

-Robert


----------



## JimP

Robert, 

In rewatching one of the videos of the shootout, and got the impression that the VT30 was more color accurate (post calibration) than the Elite. Granted that may all change with firmware from either/both but was that correct at the time of the shootout?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Good question Jim, the color errors were different. 

The VT30 pushed red and the Elite unsaturated green and displayed teal as blue. For the Elite, I think the lack of green saturation is causing the teal colors to look too blue. So if the new FW fixes the under-saturated greens the teal tones will fall into place.

-Robert


----------



## lcaillo

Robert, when you say that the VT30 pushed red, do you mean that the red luminance was high or that the red was oversaturated?


----------



## gimp

Will there be 2012 Sharp Elite PRO-*0X5FD successor models announced at CES?


----------



## gimp

Airgas1998 said:


> 215 does not fix the pulsing issue, this has been comfirmed with me and other members as well.


How many forum members are experiencing the pulsing issue? Has Sharp acknowledged the problem and committed to fixing it?


----------



## Turbe

Robert Zohn said:


> Good question Jim, the color errors were different.
> 
> and the Elite unsaturated green and displayed teal as blue. For the Elite, I think the lack of green saturation is causing the teal colors to look too blue. So if the new FW fixes the under-saturated greens the teal tones will fall into place.
> 
> -Robert


I thought this issue only shows up at less than 50% amplitude... using 75% or 100% and you don't see this issue and is the reason we didn't hear about it until the shootout..



Kevin Miller said:


> It is color tracking that is the problem. Specifically Cyan between 10 and 50% luminance levels goes extremely blue, and in fact no longer looks cyan. This is clearly visible when compared to a display that is tracking that color correctly on Transformers III and XMEN First Class.


----------



## Ken Ross

gimp said:


> How many forum members are experiencing the pulsing issue? Has Sharp acknowledged the problem and committed to fixing it?


I see no evidence of it in THX mode but I can see it in certain scenes in non-THX movie mode.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Turbe said:


> I thought this issue only shows up at less than 50% amplitude... using 75% or 100% and you don't see this issue and is the reason we didn't hear about it until the shootout..


Sorry, my bad, regarding the elite TV's inability to display teal properly is at the lower luminance values.

-Robert



Ken Ross said:


> I see no evidence of it in THX mode but I can see it in certain scenes in non-THX movie mode.


I agree on all three of my Elite TVs, I don't see any fluttering of any backgrounds. On my personal 70" living room Elite, used about 3 hrs daily and VE's 60" Elite on the shoot-out wall that is ISF Day, ISF Night and THX Movie mode calibrated and a second 70" on a dedicated demo wall with surround sound. All are stable with all sources and with varied content. 

THX Movie, ISF Night and ISF Day are the only mode I use I don't use any other modes on my 3 Elite TVs. This TV benefits nicely from being set-up properly and well calibrated.

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Robert Zohn said:


> Sorry, my bad, regarding the elite TV's inability to display teal properly is at the lower luminance values.
> 
> -Robert
> 
> 
> 
> I agree on all three of my Elite TVs, I don't see any fluttering of any backgrounds. On my personal 70" living room Elite, used about 3 hrs daily and VE's 60" Elite on the shoot-out wall that is ISF Day, ISF Night and THX Movie mode calibrated and a second 70" on a dedicated demo wall with surround sound. All are stable with all sources and with varied content.
> 
> THX Movie, ISF Night and ISF Day are the only mode I use I don't use any other modes on my 3 Elite TVs. This TV benefits nicely from being set-up properly and well calibrated.
> 
> -Robert


Robert, not to be snide but it sounds like you are trying to ignore this issue. The problem clearly does NOT manifest itself on such a noticeable level in THX Movie mode. You are stating, in essence, that people should use only the modes you identified above so as not to experience the issue when the TV is "set-up properly and well calibrated."

I couldn't disagree more. You should NOT have to calibrate the TV or watch all of your content in THX Movie or ISF modes in order to have a picture free of visible defects. Calibrating a TV is a costly option that is absolutely NOT necessary. This TV should work properly out of the box regardless of what factory settings are used.

Not all of us want to use THX Movie mode, and not all of us want to spend an additional 10% of the cost of an already uber expensive TV to have it calibrated. Those of us who do not wish to do these things are still entitled to a defect-free picture. Otherwise, there should be a disclaimer on every sale page and in all of Sharp's material saying that the TV must be professionally calibrated and THX/ISF modes should be used in order to avoid possible picture processing defects. I do not see this disclaimer anywhere.

Have you discussed this issue with Sharp?


----------



## treky11

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Robert, not to be snide but it sounds like you are trying to ignore this issue. The problem clearly does NOT manifest itself on such a noticeable level in THX Movie mode. You are stating, in essence, that people should use only the modes you identified above so as not to experience the issue when the TV is "set-up properly and well calibrated."
> 
> I couldn't disagree more. You should NOT have to calibrate the TV or watch all of your content in THX Movie or ISF modes in order to have a picture free of visible defects. Calibrating a TV is a costly option that is absolutely NOT necessary. This TV should work properly out of the box regardless of what factory settings are used.
> 
> Not all of us want to use THX Movie mode, and not all of us want to spend an additional 10% of the cost of an already uber expensive TV to have it calibrated. Those of us who do not wish to do these things are still entitled to a defect-free picture. Otherwise, there should be a disclaimer on every sale page and in all of Sharp's material saying that the TV must be professionally calibrated and THX/ISF modes should be used in order to avoid possible picture processing defects. I do not see this disclaimer anywhere.
> 
> Have you discussed this issue with Sharp?



To be honest, I think the TV is great as it is. If the teal issue wasn't pointed out I would have never noticed it. I have never seen the pulsing issue on my set. Also, they are coming out with a firmware fix within the next few weeks. 

I don't view calibration as necessary and many people don't like the calibrated settings that is why they have so many modes to begin with. In addition, once you start viewing in a non-calibrated mode you have already "distorted" the picture in some way compared to how it was intended to be viewed by the producer. But that is the beauty of all TVs, watch the content they way its most pleasing to you.

I don't know of any set on the market that comes properly calibrated so I don't see how this TV is any different in that regard. 

I am not suggesting the issue should be ignored, but nothing is perfect and IMO this TV has the best picture of anything else that I have have demoed.


----------



## Robert Zohn

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Robert, not to be snide but it sounds like you are trying to ignore this issue. The problem clearly does NOT manifest itself on such a noticeable level in THX Movie mode. You are stating, in essence, that people should use only the modes you identified above so as not to experience the issue when the TV is "set-up properly and well calibrated."
> 
> I couldn't disagree more. You should NOT have to calibrate the TV or watch all of your content in THX Movie or ISF modes in order to have a picture free of visible defects. Calibrating a TV is a costly option that is absolutely NOT necessary. This TV should work properly out of the box regardless of what factory settings are used.
> 
> Not all of us want to use THX Movie mode, and not all of us want to spend an additional 10% of the cost of an already uber expensive TV to have it calibrated. Those of us who do not wish to do these things are still entitled to a defect-free picture. Otherwise, there should be a disclaimer on every sale page and in all of Sharp's material saying that the TV must be professionally calibrated and THX/ISF modes should be used in order to avoid possible picture processing defects. I do not see this disclaimer anywhere.
> 
> Have you discussed this issue with Sharp?


I appreciate all you have said and agree with you. However, the factory calibrated THX mode serves for all uses perfectly except for gaming and gaming should be fine when connected to a game console. All I'm doing is pointing out the very best viewing mode that is free from defects and delivers the very best picture quality. No calibration is necessary. THX is excellent right out of the box.

And as treky11 said Sharp is working on several firmware upgrades, one that is being developed specifically to fix the pulsing background. I work very closely with all level of Sharp on product fixes and enhancements. My biggest efforts are on fixing the teal color and undersaturated greens, but flashing and waiving backgrounds are in our sites for fixes.

Best,

-Robert


----------



## rab-byte

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Robert, not to be snide but it sounds like you are trying to ignore this issue. The problem clearly does NOT manifest itself on such a noticeable level in THX Movie mode. You are stating, in essence, that people should use only the modes you identified above so as not to experience the issue when the TV is "set-up properly and well calibrated."
> 
> I couldn't disagree more. You should NOT have to calibrate the TV or watch all of your content in THX Movie or ISF modes in order to have a picture free of visible defects. Calibrating a TV is a costly option that is absolutely NOT necessary. This TV should work properly out of the box regardless of what factory settings are used.
> 
> Not all of us want to use THX Movie mode, and not all of us want to spend an additional 10% of the cost of an already uber expensive TV to have it calibrated. Those of us who do not wish to do these things are still entitled to a defect-free picture. Otherwise, there should be a disclaimer on every sale page and in all of Sharp's material saying that the TV must be professionally calibrated and THX/ISF modes should be used in order to avoid possible picture processing defects. I do not see this disclaimer anywhere.
> 
> Have you discussed this issue with Sharp?


As a calibrator I think you may have some misconceptions of what calibration is and why it's important. Calibration serves an important roll in getting any television's picture closer to spec. a trip to any showroom will tell you that every tv is wrong. If all TVs showed a perfect picture then they would all show the same exact thing. But they don't. I understand not wanting to spend additional dollars to have your TV calibrated and to be honest with you if TVs were designed better there would be less of a need to have calibration done. That being said, they aren't and if you want a 'more better' (or should I say more true, as better us subjective) picture then calibration is your best option. 

I respect you feeling that if you got the best TV it should, buy default, give you the best picture out of the box compared to other sets. Guess what it does. But that doesn't mean that it's the best picture the TV can show. 

The elite is a truly wonderful TV and the level of control it gives a calibrator is simply amazing. 

As for demanding a perfect picture in every video mode... That is an illogical demand. Again a perfect picture is like a simple math problem, there is only one right answer. The fact that the picture is different should tell you that something is amiss. The suggested video modes Cal Day/Night and THX represent the least wrong of your picture options. 

Buy all means use the other picture modes if you would like but don't expect anyone to lie and tell you that any default modes (THX is different) will supply you with an image nearing reference quality. 

Just my .02 and please don't take my criticism as an attach I'm just trying to help.


----------



## lcaillo

AZREOSpecialist said:


> You should NOT have to calibrate the TV or watch all of your content in THX Movie or ISF modes in order to have a picture free of visible defects. Calibrating a TV is a costly option that is absolutely NOT necessary. This TV should work properly out of the box regardless of what factory settings are used.


Those other modes have INTENTIONAL defects. That is the reason for the THX and ISF modes. The reason that you have the opportunity to get the performance that you want from your set is that manufacturers introduce defects that they think will be pleasing to many, and that ISF and THX have pushed them to offer modes that can get closer to the ideal display that introduces no visible defects and reproduces the image that was intended in production. The ISF and THX modes are starting points that are closer to a "transparent" display of the image as produced, but they are just that. There is no perfect display, even calibrated. And most people have different ideas about what is ideal. You have the choice to watch your set the way you choose.



AZREOSpecialist said:


> Not all of us want to use THX Movie mode, and not all of us want to spend an additional 10% of the cost of an already uber expensive TV to have it calibrated. Those of us who do not wish to do these things are still entitled to a defect-free picture. Otherwise, there should be a disclaimer on every sale page and in all of Sharp's material saying that the TV must be professionally calibrated and THX/ISF modes should be used in order to avoid possible picture processing defects. I do not see this disclaimer anywhere.


The general public has great misconceptions about what is a picture defect and what is not. Sharp, like most, feels that it is more profiatlble to provide an image and a marketing path that will appeal to the masses and the very limited user education that is the basis of most buying decisions. The market research is clear that more intense and saturated images with enhancement which upon close inspection can only be described as distortion of the image make for a lasting impression. The impression that drives the majority of purchases is made in the first few seconds of viewing in comparison to other sets. After decades of moving in this same direction, the public is conditioned to want these more intense images, even if they do not reproduce the source material as intended in production.

Most of us would love to see a disclaimer from the major vendors that was accurate and honest about the nature of image reproduction.


----------



## Robert Zohn

rab-byte said:


> As a calibrator I think you may have some misconceptions of what calibration is and why it's important. Calibration serves an important roll in getting any television's picture closer to spec. a trip to any showroom will tell you that every tv is wrong. If all TVs showed a perfect picture then they would all show the same exact thing. But they don't. I understand not wanting to spend additional dollars to have your TV calibrated and to be honest with you if TVs were designed better there would be less of a need to have calibration done. That being said, they aren't and if you want a 'more better' (or should I say more true, as better us subjective) picture then calibration is your best option.
> 
> I respect you feeling that if you got the best TV it should, buy default, give you the best picture out of the box compared to other sets. Guess what it does. But that doesn't mean that it's the best picture the TV can show.
> 
> The elite is a truly wonderful TV and the level of control it gives a calibrator is simply amazing.
> 
> As for demanding a perfect picture in every video mode... That is an illogical demand. Again a perfect picture is like a simple math problem, there is only one right answer. The fact that the picture is different should tell you that something is amiss. The suggested video modes Cal Day/Night and THX represent the least wrong of your picture options.
> 
> Buy all means use the other picture modes if you would like but don't expect anyone to lie and tell you that any default modes (THX is different) will supply you with an image nearing reference quality.
> 
> Just my .02 and please don't take my criticism as an attach I'm just trying to help.





lcaillo said:


> Those other modes have INTENTIONAL defects. That is the reason for the THX and ISF modes. The reason that you have the opportunity to get the performance that you want from your set is that manufacturers introduce defects that they think will be pleasing to many, and that ISF and THX have pushed them to offer modes that can get closer to the ideal display that introduces no visible defects and reproduces the image that was intended in production. The ISF and THX modes are starting points that are closer to a "transparent" display of the image as produced, but they are just that. There is no perfect display, even calibrated. And most people have different ideas about what is ideal. You have the choice to watch your set the way you choose.
> 
> 
> 
> The general public has great misconceptions about what is a picture defect and what is not. Sharp, like most, feels that it is more profiatlble to provide an image and a marketing path that will appeal to the masses and the very limited user education that is the basis of most buying decisions. The market research is clear that more intense and saturated images with enhancement which upon close inspection can only be described as distortion of the image make for a lasting impression. The impression that drives the majority of purchases is made in the first few seconds of viewing in comparison to other sets. After decades of moving in this same direction, the public is conditioned to want these more intense images, even if they do not reproduce the source material as intended in production.
> 
> Most of us would love to see a disclaimer from the major vendors that was accurate and honest about the nature of image reproduction.


Two great posts one after another. Thank you! 

With all of this said, although I definitely have my 70" Elite day/night/3D calibrated and likely a third B&W and fourth gaming mode calibrated in all 5 inputs along with ATSC OTA and the built in Digital QAM tuners I'm loving my THX Movie out of the box mode with a few tweaks to the IVC, Back-lighting, contrast, brightness, all processing, like Active Contrast, Motion Enhancement, Precision Color., etc all set to off. The Film mode I sometimes play with but usually have it set to advance low, and Digital noise reduction off.

So many more settings like gamma and all of the color and luminance settings. Too much to talk about on this long enough post. 

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

Although I agree there are 'planned defects' or perhaps better stated, 'inaccuracies' in modes other than THX, I don't think the flickering or pulsing is one of them. A red push or torch mode is a 'planned defect', but not so the pulsing that can be seen in non-THX movie mode. This is totally unexpected by the manufacturer I'm sure.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thank you Ken, we're developing great video forums on HTS. I totally agree, many of the modes are perfect for..... well over bright retail stores demo displays. Hopefully not for most home use. 

I just need a few well designed video modes and take out all of the garbage modes.

-Robert


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Robert Zohn said:


> Thank you Ken, we're developing great video forums on HTS. I totally agree, many of the modes are perfect for..... well over bright retail stores demo displays. Hopefully not for most home use.
> 
> I just need a few well designed video modes and take out all of the garbage modes.
> 
> -Robert


I've yet to take my TV out of THX mode. :T I like my music distortion free, same goes for my video. 

Good luck in the meeting with Sharp tomorrow. Bring us good news on the color fix.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hutchinshouse, you are so right on. I love all of the a/v performance agencies, CEDIA, ISF, THX, CES, SMPTE, and IEEE. At my shoot-out I said when you see the THX badge it's like getting the Good Housekeeping seal of approval.

-Robert


----------



## azaze1

I got my Elite today and I've been playing with a few settings and noticed the entire picture is a little 'warm' for my taste with the color temp at it's default of "Low". The info and manual clearly say white with reddish tone. Is this really what it's supposed to look like? I've seen some settings that people seem to like posted in this very same thread and the temp is still untouched at low.

Also, I think I'm suffering a bit of black crush as my primary input is HTPC with an AMD Radeon HD 6450. I've got that setup to output RGB Full 4:4:4. Is anyone else here connecting an HTPC with nvidia or AMD to an Elite? If so, do things look too black in dark areas? I'm really missing some of the low lighting detail people rave about.

Finally, would it be foolish to ask if there is some sort of user driven database out there where people can submit their personal settings so we can try it out and get a community consensus of what looks good for those who tweak beyond Movie THX defaults? Personally I just need my picture to be a little brigher as I'm losing detail I used to see on my Sony, and then I'm liking the Medium color temp more than Low but no one else seems to be suggesting that.


----------



## rab-byte

azaze1 said:


> I got my Elite today and I've been playing with a few settings and noticed the entire picture is a little 'warm' for my taste with the color temp at it's default of "Low". The info and manual clearly say white with reddish tone. Is this really what it's supposed to look like? I've seen some settings that people seem to like posted in this very same thread and the temp is still untouched at low.
> 
> Also, I think I'm suffering a bit of black crush as my primary input is HTPC with an AMD Radeon HD 6450. I've got that setup to output RGB Full 4:4:4. Is anyone else here connecting an HTPC with nvidia or AMD to an Elite? If so, do things look too black in dark areas? I'm really missing some of the low lighting detail people rave about.
> 
> Finally, would it be foolish to ask if there is some sort of user driven database out there where people can submit their personal settings so we can try it out and get a community consensus of what looks good for those who tweak beyond Movie THX defaults? Personally I just need my picture to be a little brigher as I'm losing detail I used to see on my Sony, and then I'm liking the Medium color temp more than Low but no one else seems to be suggesting that.


Yes warm buy default is a little too reddish. 

You PC is sending white from 0-255 but a TV wants to show 12-236 so black crush from a PC is normal. If your AVR has CMS control you may be able to set the PC inputs brightness control higher to alleviate said issue. 

AVS forums typically has users posting settings but that doesn't mean those setting will be right for your display. There can be as much as a 10% variance in a production model. 

Calibration is the best way for your display to show a true picture.


----------



## azaze1

rab-byte said:


> Yes warm buy default is a little too reddish.
> 
> You PC is sending white from 0-255 but a TV wants to show 12-236 so black crush from a PC is normal. If your AVR has CMS control you may be able to set the PC inputs brightness control higher to alleviate said issue.
> 
> AVS forums typically has users posting settings but that doesn't mean those setting will be right for your display. There can be as much as a 10% variance in a production model.
> 
> Calibration is the best way for your display to show a true picture.


Thanks, I moved the color temp to medium and it made the HTPC look much better. Whites were white and not a warm white... but then I went to the DVR to watch some TV and things were startlingly blue and just messed up. I didn't have this issue on my Sony, but I guess I'll have to just keep things more towards defaults and use the ATI CCC to tweak colors to match what the DVR looks like since I have no ability to tweak the DVR for a consistent look.


----------



## rab-byte

Every source you have will have some variance. Since you can't adjust your DVR and will have only limited adjustments on a blu-ray but have full adjustments on your PC I suggest setting the picture to more closely match your DVR then adjust the player and PC to match.


----------



## DJG

OK, my 70X5 finally got here yesterday - God this thing is big!

For me THX is the one setting, as that's how I do all of my viewing (even when it's on for background chatter ).

After using Ken's posted basic settings and some tweaking with a bunch of patterns I have something I can really enjoy until I get down to some more serious calibration after some break-in and the next firmware update.

I am currently using mid-low for temperature, +4 tint, +3 color, +31 brightness, +2 contrast, 120Hz Low motion, DNR off and +2 gamma.

Impressions (size aside):

- What's with the faux brushed metal menu panel? At I first thought I had a defective screen !

- The blacks & shadow detail - yum!

- No discernable halos where I was expecting some, like the big Oppo background title or certain movie credits - nice!

- Blu-ray ... Wow!

- DirecTV: well, here's where you can tell some really bad source material! Some stuff actually looks great (as long as you don't pause so you can see the fruits of compression). Some stuff can look pretty yucky, but we knew that. All in all, not a bad deal.

- So far no dead / stuck pixels I can see (I've kind of looked for them from a reasonable distance with a uniform grey field, but haven't talken out the magnifying glass, nor do I plan to. If I can't detect it from my viewing distance (about 8.5 feet), not a problem.

- I haven't seen the pulsing background - exactly what time in Dark Knight was that in? But then, I am in THX mode so may not apply.

- The stand on the LG 55LE8500 was far superior to the cheapo thing they supplied for the Elite - I imagine to keep the price down .

And the USB video format support sucks - the thing can't play 1440 or 1280 resolutions, nor VOB or TS or M2TS files! Come on, that's a joke! Hopefully that will be a firmware update coming soon.

But it's a beautiful display to look at, no doubt! For me, worth every penny.

Question: what's a good break-in period?


----------



## Robert Zohn

DJG, welcome to HTS and congratulations on getting the Elite TV!!

I recommend 100 hours of break-in so the LED lights settle in before any ISF calibration is done. If you plan on having your TV professionally calibrated wait for the color firmware upgrade and I'll recommend the best and most experienced Elite calibrator available.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Thanks for the info, Robert. I do my own calibrations using CalMAN DIY and a Spyder 3, probably not as good as a real ISF but close enough for me. I will definitely wait for the FW upgrade for the final, but I'm already itching to do an in-the-mean-time for the grey scale .

Thank you for all the excellent comments and behind-the-scenes work with Sharp.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thank you, always happy to help!

-Robert


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Robert - What did you find out at your meeting with the rep from Elite on the color issue today?


----------



## donnymac

Hello Robert. Any new info from your Sharp contacts today?


----------



## Ken Ross

Hi Robert,

Just wondering if you got any update today on the software releases? I think you mentioned you would be in a meeting with Sharp today.

Thanks much!

Edit: WOW! How weird is that...3 posts within a minute asking the same question!!!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Mañana

-Robert


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Robert Zohn said:


> Mañana
> 
> -Robert


Tomorrow we get the firmware or tomorrow you'll update us?


----------



## Airgas1998

Hutchinshouse said:


> Tomorrow we get the firmware or tomorrow you'll update us?


update i'm sure, could even be the conference call was delayed as well until Wednesday..


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct again as usual Airgas1998. I'm hoping to get a Beta copy to test.

-Robert


----------



## DYAUS

Well, I received my 70x5fd today...The screen was DESTROYED! Very unfortunate. Now anther 7-10 day wait and hopefully I will get to experience the great pq on the humongous screen.:sweat:sad:


----------



## rab-byte

DYAUS said:


> Well, I received my 70x5fd today...The screen was DESTROYED! Very unfortunate. Now anther 7-10 day wait and hopefully I will get to experience the great pq on the humongous screen.:sweat:sad:


Dude!
That is like a Hoover in one very specific way. Good luck. 
Who was handling your shipping and did you have any issues with the retailer or shippers?


----------



## DYAUS

No issues with the retailer he has actually been great to work with. But I upgraded from the 60x5fd and the first time he used a different logistics company. This one was AIT world logistics. He came to my door, helped me drag it in, and said "sign here please" then as soon as I was finished signing he was out the door. I dont usually get shipments like this and since the first one came in good condition I didnt think anything of it. Still its to bad, felt like a little kid again waiting for my awesome big kid toy haha..


----------



## aleicgrant

DYAUS said:


> No issues with the retailer he has actually been great to work with. But I upgraded from the 60x5fd and the first time he used a different logistics company. This one was AIT world logistics. He came to my door, helped me drag it in, and said "sign here please" then as soon as I was finished signing he was out the door. I dont usually get shipments like this and since the first one came in good condition I didnt think anything of it. Still its to bad, felt like a little kid again waiting for my awesome big kid toy haha..


ALWAYS check that screen ( use flash light for hairline cracks) before you sign anything ;-)


----------



## rab-byte

We used to have issues with some of our delivery guys cutting boxes open so clients could see the screen before signing ( as opposed to lacking the clips out of the box and lifting the top) had a couple of TVs get nicked and it wasn't detected until the unit was powered on!!!

Believe we put a stop to that quick!!!!

Damage happens but there is no excuse for the delivery guy rushing you. Always check before you sign. 

That aside. When you finally get your set it will be amazing. That TV is sick!!!


----------



## Airgas1998

DYAUS said:


> No issues with the retailer he has actually been great to work with. But I upgraded from the 60x5fd and the first time he used a different logistics company. This one was AIT world logistics. He came to my door, helped me drag it in, and said "sign here please" then as soon as I was finished signing he was out the door. I dont usually get shipments like this and since the first one came in good condition I didnt think anything of it. Still its to bad, felt like a little kid again waiting for my awesome big kid toy haha..


AIT is notorious for damaged shipment. at one time and may even be currently, have the highest claims rate in the industry.


----------



## dsskid

Anything on the teal issue software update?


----------



## Ken Ross

dsskid said:


> Anything on the teal issue software update?


We should hear later today when Robert reports back on his communications with Sharp.


----------



## dsskid

Thanks Ken.


----------



## azaze1

This might make me look helpless but I cannot find any documentation in the manual on how to configure the Elite remote to control other devices (DVR, receiver, etc).

I want to be able to turn on/off my cable box and receiver, where is this documented?


----------



## Hutchinshouse

azaze1 said:


> This might make me look helpless but I cannot find any documentation in the manual on how to configure the Elite remote to control other devices (DVR, receiver, etc).
> 
> I want to be able to turn on/off my cable box and receiver, where is this documented?


Page 60, however, looks very limited.


----------



## dsskid

Still no status on the teal firmware?


----------



## Ken Ross

dsskid said:


> Still no status on the teal firmware?


I'm wondering if there was a delay in the release.


----------



## azaze1

Hutchinshouse said:


> Page 60, however, looks very limited.


wow, you're not kidding. This is clearly not a universal remote, and no wonder I didn't find it. I was looking for a section that was 3-4 pages long with equipment broken down into tables with 100 manufacturers etc.

This is going to end up being strictly a remote to adjust video settings and nothing more. I've already got my HTPC and Onkyo remote turning on/off the Elite. I only use the menu and nav buttons on Elite to adjust picture which is probably something I wont be doing on a regular basis once the firmware fixes are out and I'm happy with my settings.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Ken Ross said:


> I'm wondering if there was a delay in the release.


Yeah, in a case like this, no news "could" be bad news. Or VE has beta firmware and they're checking it this very second. One can hope.


----------



## Radtech51

The calm before the news. :sneeky:


----------



## JClam

azaze1 said:


> wow, you're not kidding. This is clearly not a universal remote, and no wonder I didn't find it. I was looking for a section that was 3-4 pages long with equipment broken down into tables with 100 manufacturers etc.
> 
> This is going to end up being strictly a remote to adjust video settings and nothing more. I've already got my HTPC and Onkyo remote turning on/off the Elite. I only use the menu and nav buttons on Elite to adjust picture which is probably something I wont be doing on a regular basis once the firmware fixes are out and I'm happy with my settings.


If you have an iDevice, check out iRule and control everything from your iPad/iPhone/iTouch and also get 2way feedback. That's what I'm doing anyway...


----------



## azaze1

JClam said:


> If you have an iDevice, check out iRule and control everything from your iPad/iPhone/iTouch and also get 2way feedback. That's what I'm doing anyway...


looks very cool. I'll check it out .

thx


----------



## Robert Zohn

Sorry everyone, one more day please.

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

Look forward to it Robert, thanks!


----------



## Theatredaz

Just received my 60" Elite today!> had to exchange it for the 70" which was too large to be able to view it at a comfortable distance without noticing pixelatin on some poorer content> amazingingly Huge set though...the 60" seems more petit compared to it ...but much better image detail at my sitting distance...will post my impressions of it in a bit!


----------



## dsskid

Theatredaz said:


> Just received my 60" Elite today!> had to exchange it for the 70" which was too large to be able to view it at a comfortable distance without noticing pixelatin on some poorer content> amazingingly Huge set though...the 60" seems more petit compared to it ...but much better image detail at my sitting distance...will post my impressions of it in a bit!


Congratulations and enjoy.


----------



## Audiofiler

Theatredaz said:


> Just received my 60" Elite today!> had to exchange it for the 70" which was too large to be able to view it at a comfortable distance without noticing pixelatin on some poorer content> amazingingly Huge set though...the 60" seems more petit compared to it ...but much better image detail at my sitting distance...will post my impressions of it in a bit!


What is your viewing distance?


----------



## azaze1

Robert, how about a softball question (non-firmware or shimmering IVC) I've not been able to get a definitive answer on.

Does the Elite accept full RGB 0-255 from a PC without clipping 0-15 and 236-255?


----------



## JimP

So Robert.....what did you find out?


----------



## Theatredaz

Audiofiler said:


> What is your viewing distance?


I sit about 9 ft back from the set> too close IMO for a good consistent sharp image...12ft is really the sweet spot...which is too far a distance for me.

The 60" is definatley sharper at my viewing distance> still tweaking and calibrating> have lots of encoded movies that have some artifacting that are more noticable on the display> I found turning down the brightness setting greatly diminishes this effect...still to test True Bluray movies yet. Excellent consitent blacks levels> tested Local Dimming on High ( try the movie/ anime Title Renaisance) it's black and white only and the whites really seemed to burn your retinas, when they where enhanced by the display. Breaking it in some more> the 70" seemed to have pitcher blacks during a blank screen (60" shows a white haze hue in a complete dark room with zero video image) but it could be a calibration issue I need to adjust...using THX mode.


----------



## rab-byte

Is LD on or off? With respect to the 60" haze.


----------



## Robert Zohn

azaze1 said:


> Robert, how about a softball question (non-firmware or shimmering IVC) I've not been able to get a definitive answer on.
> 
> Does the Elite accept full RGB 0-255 from a PC without clipping 0-15 and 236-255?


While I haven't fed one PC levels I would guess that since it passes below 16 and well above 235 when fed 16-235 video levels that it wouldn't be an issue. Should have enough range on the brightness and contrast controls to adjust for a 0-255 signal as we see most bars above and below the 16 - 235 range.

-Robert



JimP said:


> So Robert.....what did you find out?


If this is about the color fix, which I have been promising a reply to. I just spoke with the VP and it's taking more time to get out of engineering than expected. At this moment the projected date to pass the final Beta stage is one week and possibly a few more days. I will get the upgrade a couple of days before it launches. 

-Robert


----------



## trcnet

Robert Zohn said:


> While I haven't fed one PC levels I would guess that since it passes below 16 and well above 235 when fed 16-235 video levels that it wouldn't be an issue. Should have enough range on the brightness and contrast controls to adjust for a 0-255 signal as we see most bars above and below the 16 - 235 range.
> 
> -Robert
> 
> 
> 
> If this is about the color fix, which I have been promising a reply to. I just spoke with the VP and it's taking more time to get out of engineering than expected. At this moment the projected date to pass the final Beta stage is one week and possibly a few more days. I will get the upgrade a couple of days before it launches.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for responding with the update Robert.:wave:


----------



## Theatredaz

rab-byte said:


> Is LD on or off? With respect to the 60" haze.


I'm gonna re-check for haze> could be a bad brightness setting on the display.

I've been tweaking my Mac mini HTPC (2010)> I find the displays calibration setting in advance settings does nothing to improve PQ> adjusting the Gamma 5 times resulted in a crushed/pixelated image...I switched back to the basic settings and all looks well now.


----------



## Theatredaz

I hope the guys at sharp keep up on customer service for the display> it really helps when there are technicians available to tweak the set so it's running optimally year round> as some other well known video electronics companies ie Oppo etc.


----------



## insidiousfix

Anyone notice on empire strikes back Blu ray, in the scene where Han solo finds Luke and put him in the belly of the tauntaun, as han moves against the white background in up close scenes, a sort of odd discoloration. Like the color can't get out of the picture fast enough. Is this part of the source material or my set? I'm using kens settings. Seems to happen on most shots where something dark moves across the white backgrounds of Hoth


----------



## rab-byte

Is it trails/tracers? Like old LCD or more like poor 120/240 processing?


----------



## insidiousfix

It appears to me as if the white background is sort of yellowish for a second before becoming white. If you look at the imperial probe move across the screen, I see it like a yellowish tracer.


----------



## rab-byte

That's odd. Have you been drinking 

Is it repeatable on other content or just the one disc?


----------



## insidiousfix

I was not drinking. I may have been stoned, but it was not caused by that. I don't have any other Blu rays with snow scenes that I can think of. I may have to borrow my friends copy of superman to see if I see it there. What other movies have a lot of snow scenes?


----------



## rab-byte

insidiousfix said:


> I was not drinking. I may have been stoned, but it was not caused by that. I don't have any other Blu rays with snow scenes that I can think of. I may have to borrow my friends copy of superman to see if I see it there. What other movies have a lot of snow scenes?


Alive
Ice age
Day after tomorrow
Ski school
Behind enemy lines
Planet earth


----------



## trcnet

insidiousfix said:


> I was not drinking. I may have been stoned, but it was not caused by that. I don't have any other Blu rays with snow scenes that I can think of. I may have to borrow my friends copy of superman to see if I see it there. What other movies have a lot of snow scenes?


'Whiteout' comes to mind.


----------



## insidiousfix

I don't have any of those on Blu ray. I do have ice age on DVD and will check it later when I get home. Could one of you with the star wars Blu ray box set pop on empire and tell me if you see it also?


----------



## AGuyinGreene

I just ordered a Elite Pro-60X5FD on Friday from Value Electronics. Looking forward to receiving this.

This display is replacing a Sony 65hx929 that is going back to Amazon. A nice display but for $5400 it has too many issues. Three or four vertical bands that can be seen anytime a scene pans left or right. These are really distracting. I never saw these on the 55 inch model that was returned for the crease issue. The 3d was also horrible. Really bad ghosting on everything. I find this strange since Sony is the one pushing 3D the most! Uncharted was unplayable in 3d.

Has anyone played Uncharted in 3D on the Elite? Any recommendations on settings?

Has anyone tried the Skype camera? How well does it work?

Can anyone recommend a calibrator around the Charlottesville and Richmond area?


----------



## rab-byte

AGuyinGreene said:


> Can anyone recommend a calibrator around the Charlottesville and Richmond area?


I don't know if this forum has a calibrator list but AVS does. If you go the ISF's website they list calibrators buy state. 

Most calibrators, like good contractors, should be able to offer you references from past clients. 

THX may have a calibrator list also but I'm not sure.


----------



## Turbe

AGuyinGreene said:


> Can anyone recommend a calibrator around the Charlottesville and Richmond area?





rab-byte said:


> I don't know if this forum has a calibrator list but AVS does. If you go the ISF's website they list calibrators buy state.
> 
> Most calibrators, like good contractors, should be able to offer you references from past clients.
> 
> THX may have a calibrator list also but I'm not sure.


You can check this LIST posted on this site. I need to update it and also I have a list by State posted. You can find the updated List HERE.

I'll try to get list here updated.

Check the Touring Calibrators: D-Nice, Chad Billheimer, Jeff Meier, David Abrams (Avical), Doug Weil, Gregg Loewen


----------



## DYAUS

AGuyinGreene said:


> I just ordered a Elite Pro-60X5FD on Friday from Value Electronics. Looking forward to receiving this.
> 
> This display is replacing a Sony 65hx929 that is going back to Amazon. A nice display but for $5400 it has too many issues. Three or four vertical bands that can be seen anytime a scene pans left or right. These are really distracting. I never saw these on the 55 inch model that was returned for the crease issue. The 3d was also horrible. Really bad ghosting on everything. I find this strange since Sony is the one pushing 3D the most! Uncharted was unplayable in 3d.
> 
> Has anyone played Uncharted in 3D on the Elite? Any recommendations on settings?
> 
> Has anyone tried the Skype camera? How well does it work?
> 
> Can anyone recommend a calibrator around the Charlottesville and Richmond area?



Yes I have played uncharted on my 60x5fd and it looks amazing! My cousin has the 55hx929 and in both our opinions the elite 3d is much much better, were loving 3d gaming on this set:T


----------



## mechman

Turbe said:


> I'll try to get list here updated.


We do appreciate it! :T


----------



## Radtech51

Hello everyone, well I finally tested out World of Warcraft on my 70" ELITE this weekend and I was very impressed! It looked stunning, tried out the various Picture modes all looked great. Yes I kept Local Dimming ON and had saw No issues. I'll be posting some screen shots when I find the time.


----------



## Theatredaz

* I was tweaking my DVDO Edge settings for the 60" Elite I have...went into the 36-bit color menu> and set it to auto ( original output was 24-bit color)...the Elite accepted the signal!> Just amazing how the SD broadcast I was watching adjusted to a more fine image that is less blocky and easier on the eyes to watch.

Now the Elite is receiving a 36bit color signal instead of 24bit.


Has anyone else sent the elite a 36bit color signal> I think it definatly improves the overall image especially for SD content.


----------



## Robio11

AGuyinGreene said:


> I just ordered a Elite Pro-60X5FD on Friday from Value Electronics. Looking forward to receiving this.
> 
> This display is replacing a Sony 65hx929 that is going back to Amazon. A nice display but for $5400 it has too many issues. Three or four vertical bands that can be seen anytime a scene pans left or right. These are really distracting. I never saw these on the 55 inch model that was returned for the crease issue. The 3d was also horrible. Really bad ghosting on everything. I find this strange since Sony is the one pushing 3D the most! Uncharted was unplayable in 3d.
> 
> Has anyone played Uncharted in 3D on the Elite? Any recommendations on settings?
> 
> Has anyone tried the Skype camera? How well does it work?
> 
> Can anyone recommend a calibrator around the Charlottesville and Richmond area?


Yes, I have the skype cam. I have set it up, tested it, and tried it once. Does the job quite well. Total pain typing with the remote, but you only need to do that once for logging in. After that, I would use our PC for any and all account changes.
I hope a firmware update comes allowing this set to use smart apps comes - and android iOS apps can be used as remote control/virtual keyboards.
I believe Sharp entered a partnership with Samsung/LG to support these smart apps.


----------



## aleicgrant

Anyone using vudu? Have you found a way to play 3d streams? Is not recognizing as a 3D tv.


----------



## rab-byte

aleicgrant said:


> Anyone using vudu? Have you found a way to play 3d streams? Is not recognizing as a 3D tv.


I don't stream vudu, but only because Walmart owns them. 

Are you running video through an older reciever? If the reciever isn't 3D the you will need to connect devices directly to the TV for 3D.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

rab-byte said:


> I don't stream vudu, but only because Walmart owns them.
> 
> Are you running video through an older reciever? If the reciever isn't 3D the you will need to connect devices directly to the TV for 3D.


Vudu is a native TV app, so there is no HDMI connection. It's all internal.


----------



## rab-byte

Then I have no idea. Bandwidth maybe?


----------



## Hutchinshouse

aleicgrant said:


> Anyone using vudu? Have you found a way to play 3d streams? Is not recognizing as a 3D tv.


It's a firmware thing. The Elite requires an update to support 3D via VUDU. Same goes for my Oppo BDP-93. A firmware update is required.

Check here for others with the same dilemma: http://forum.vudu.com/forumdisplay.php?f=131


----------



## AGuyinGreene

My 60" is scheduled for delivery tomorrow! Quick shipping through Value Electronics!

Looking through the instruction manual I noticed there is a setting for watching monochrome sources. How well does this work? Has anybody customized the user source for B&W movies? Or is THX movie the best for b&w?


----------



## rab-byte

That's an interesting question. Sharp seems to the the only brand including a B&W mode in their sets. Makes me wonder who in the company is the avid old film buff.


----------



## Glass2

rab-byte said:


> That's an interesting question. Sharp seems to the the only brand including a B&W mode in their sets. Makes me wonder who in the company is the avid old film buff.


I don't know BUT they get my appreciation approval vote if it really helps on B&W. That would be an incredible bonus as I have about 500 classic DVDs, movies and Jazz performances that have been reissued on Jazz Icons. The Oppo and Toshiba players clean them up so I wonder what Elite does with this.


----------



## aleicgrant

Hutchinshouse said:


> It's a firmware thing. The Elite requires an update to support 3D via VUDU. Same goes for my Oppo BDP-93. A firmware update is required.
> 
> Check here for others with the same dilemma: http://forum.vudu.com/forumdisplay.php?f=131


Really surprised they bundled this app that has a firmware glitch preventing 3D


----------



## famousswun

Hi all, I plan on upgrading to the Elite from my Panny 50g25. How much of an upgrade in PQ should I expect from the new set, such as black level, color accuracy, ect? I am going to see the Elite for the first time at MHT this Friday, and am just curious if the huge price is worth it. Thanks.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hello famousswun, welcome to HTS! The biggest advantages to the Elite TV oval all other displays is the deep black level, superior peak luminance and the TV's ability to maintain it's black level in high ambient light.

When you visit the retailer ask the store to put the TV in the THX Movie mode for the best performance.

-Robert


----------



## famousswun

Robert Zohn said:


> Hello famousswun, welcome to HTS! The biggest advantages to the Elite TV oval all other displays is the deep black level, superior peak luminance and the TV's ability to maintain it's black level in high ambient light.
> 
> When you visit the retailer ask the store to put the TV in the THX Movie mode for the best performance.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks Robert! Will do that when I go to BB.


----------



## DJG

Having come back from my week-long trip I finally got to really check out my fairly broken-in 70. One thing I'm noticing is a minor lack of color uniformity that is content affected, noticeable when showing grey scale patterns or fields. I get a slightly yellowish/greenish tint in the upper left and along the top. If I leave an IRE 50 field on for a while it pretty much goes away, but it comes back after a bit of video material. I also notice it around some specific high-conrast boundaries in the patterns. It hasn't affected viewing the material, mainly when viewing the patterns.

Having said that, I watched Green Lantern in BD last night. One word:

WOW!

This is going to be my reference BD for now. The video was astounding, and it's a tough one on the display because of the high-contrast nature (without looking overdone) and lots of dark scenes. I was blown away.

I'm back to pretty much Ken's settings with a +1 brightness and +37 contrast. I get black blacks and excellent shadow detail (my eyes are getting a workout!) in a totally darkened room. The colors are beautifully natural and strong when needed but not overdone. Looking forward to the firmware upgrade!


----------



## dsskid

Any further word on the firmware fix for the color issue?


----------



## JimP

dsskid,
I believe this is the latest that Robert posted about the due date. It was posted last Friday on the 2nd.



Robert Zohn said:


> If this is about the color fix, which I have been promising a reply to. I just spoke with the VP and it's taking more time to get out of engineering than expected. At this moment the projected date to pass the final Beta stage is one week and possibly a few more days. I will get the upgrade a couple of days before it launches.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## dsskid

Thanks for the update Jim (and Robert).


----------



## Robert Zohn

Nice Elite TV review by CNET's David Katzmaier.

Don't just read the article, click on the video overview.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

As reported here and on AVS Forums, this TV has a severe local dimming "pulsing" problem with certain scenes when there is a bright subject in front of a dark background. The pulsing manifests itself as confused local dimming logic that causes a noticeable and distracting brightness fluctuation in the background. It will often snake back and forth in the background. Many people, including myself, have reported this to Sharp. They supposedly have not been able to reproduce this in their labs while many of us have no trouble seeing the problem in our regular content.

** I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE BUY THIS TV UNTIL THIS ISSUE IS RESOLVED. **


----------



## rab-byte

Do you know if they are recording serial numbers of the affected units?


----------



## JimP

AZREOSpecialist said:


> As reported here and on AVS Forums, this TV has a severe local dimming "pulsing" problem with certain scenes when there is a bright subject in front of a dark background. The pulsing manifests itself as confused local dimming logic that causes a noticeable and distracting brightness fluctuation in the background. It will often snake back and forth in the background. Many people, including myself, have reported this to Sharp. They supposedly have not been able to reproduce this in their labs while many of us have no trouble seeing the problem in our regular content.
> 
> ** I DO NOT RECOMMEND ANYONE BUY THIS TV UNTIL THIS ISSUE IS RESOLVED. **



....and the color issue is resolved. It's already a month late.


----------



## rab-byte

Let's be honest though. If this TV was 2/3 the price the nit picking would be overlooked. But it's not.


----------



## DYAUS

Hello everyone, so I finally received my new 70x5fd that is replacing the 60x5fd and I must say, WOW! I have not seen any of the flashing issues others have complained about, but I have only used THX mode so I'm not sure if that's why I am not seeing it. I have the majority of popular blu rays at my disposal so if anyone can give me info on how to reproduce this occurrence I would just like to see if my set is affected with this issue as well, or if I may have just been lucky and got a set without it. So far this TV has done nothing less than amaze me with all the stuff I have thrown at it so far. If anyone has any suggestions, or questions, I'm glad to listen.


----------



## Ken Ross

I think the 'not recommended' label is more than a bit harsh...don't tell that to David K. who just reviewed & raved about the Elite. Don't tell that to the many many owners who just love their Elites too.

The cyan color issue is something that the overwhelming majority of people would miss unless they knew what to look for and even then, many still wouldn't see it (ask my wife). But I've always felt the issue should be addressed by Sharp and obviously is.

The pulsing issue is something that many aren't experiencing and some of those that are don't see it in THX mode (like myself). Again, I'd like to see this addressed and frankly I am surprised that Sharp hasn't been able to reproduce it in their labs.

But to put the 'not recommended' label on what may be the best display ever and by all accounts is certainly one of the best displays ever, is a bit harsh IMO.


----------



## AGuyinGreene

What pulsing issue? I have not seen this at all. Check your AV equipment.

This TV is amazing. I have never seen a display look so good!


This is also the first display I have purchased where I didn't need to use game mode. The PC version of Skyrim looks amazing.


----------



## JimP

The pulsing issue that several members have reported both here and on other forums.

Some have commented that it's gone or almost gone in the THX mode

If you haven't seen it, it would be better to not go looking for it.


----------



## dsskid

Hopefully Sharp with address the Elites shortcomings in the near future.


----------



## dsskid

rab-byte said:


> Let's be honest though. If this TV was 2/3 the price the nit picking would be overlooked. But it's not.


But it's not so why should it be overlooked? If I wrote a check to Sharp for 2/3 of the price of the display, I'm sure they wouldn't overlook that I shorted them.


----------



## trcnet

dsskid said:


> But it's not so why should it be overlooked? If I wrote a check to Sharp for 2/3 of the price of the display, I'm sure they wouldn't overlook that I shorted them.


Hello dsskid,

Not that it should be over looked. However, if there is one thing I've learned as my many many years of being into hi-end audio, there will always be issues, trade-offs, flaws (etc.), no matter how high even stratospheric the price point. This is not to say we shouldn't always strive for perfection but also realize and be able to live and accept that this is an unattainable goal. So in the end for me the answer was yes, to write out the check and to be positive that I have what is thought to be by many the overall best display currently available, flaws and all, and also to be grateful I was able to do so.

best,
Tom


----------



## DJG

+! :T


----------



## Robert Zohn

dsskid said:


> Hopefully Sharp with address the Elites shortcomings in the near future.


I'm hoping to get a BETA copy of the color fix this week. I understand it's finished and is just pending the legal departments release and approval of the language.

-Robert


----------



## Spiff69

Thanks, Robert - hopefully we are almost there. Will this be 2.16?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Not sure of the ver. #. 

-Robert


----------



## Spiff69

By the way, no one is overlooking flaws. I want the cyan fix as bad as anyone else. The pulsing is something I've only seen a few times in a mode I don't use, so it's not a big deal to me, but I understand and appreciate that it is to others. If the existing flaws and the fixes don't satisfy you, then don't buy the set. I think it's a shame that the conversations about this set are being dominated by the issues. I guess it's not really the issues themselves, but rather the constant "for a set at this price..." comments. Sharp is obviously committed to fixing issues. No one in any of the three major forums can actually define what the problem really is or provide consistent parameters that cause the issue and that makes it a much tougher issue to resolve. Hopefully, we will have proof from Elite this week or next that they are capable of identifying an issue and correcting it. 

As an owner, I would like to see more productive topics surrounding owning and optimizing the set.


----------



## DJG

I've been trying the motion set to 120Hz High and have seen no noticeable problems. I watched Grand Prix which has lots of fast car movement and also some anime with lots of martial arts and supernatural events and also seen no anomalies. Has anybody tried it and had problems? Could be I'm blind / insensitive to these motion artifacts / side-effects.

I've had the set for about a week of actual use (I was out of town for a week after getting the set delivered). I've been keeping it on for a quick break-in, with a 50 IRE field when not watching. My only nag would be some minor lack of uniformity observable in light flat even areas along the top half about a third from the left. I have to be really looking for it under special circumstances, and even then it's fleeting. I haven't seen the pulsing though I looked for it in Dark Knight and Let Me In (I'm using THX) and haven't noticed nor looked for the cyan. I looked for and found no dead or stuck pixels here either.

I've watched several dark high-contrast BDs that push the blacks, shadows and highlights, often at the same time (Green Lantern, Franklyn and just now Mimic) and I'm thoroughly impressed with the performance. Ken's settings get you a great looking picture which you can tweak to your specific taste or individual set delta. Hell even DirecTV looks good often with much of its HD materal, though you know it ain't BD.

I do hope we get the new firmware soon though. Either way, no regrets whatsoever.


----------



## mechman

Spiff69 said:


> I think it's a shame that the conversations about this set are being dominated by the issues. I guess it's not really the issues themselves, but rather the constant "for a set at this price..." comments.


That is the nature of the beast. :huh: There is very little incentive for anyone who is happy with their new display to post on the internet. However, if something bothers you about your new display, you're going to vent anywhere and everywhere you can.



Spiff69 said:


> As an owner, I would like to see more productive topics surrounding owning and optimizing the set.


I'm with you here! :T


----------



## mjw

insidiousfix said:


> Anyone notice on empire strikes back Blu ray, in the scene where Han solo finds Luke and put him in the belly of the tauntaun, as han moves against the white background in up close scenes, a sort of odd discoloration. Like the color can't get out of the picture fast enough.
> Seems to happen on most shots where something dark moves across the white backgrounds of Hoth


I'm not sure if this is the same issue but I was at the 2011 shoot out at VE and saw a similar issue during the Motion Resolutions tests (day 2 part 5 on YouTube). A grey scaling drawing scrolls across a background that is supposed to be white. But on the Elite the background was noticeably off-white in certain patches of the screen. I thought perhaps it was "dirty screen effect". At one point the bottom of the picture even started to judder and break up. The experts thought this second problem may have been an HDMI issue. Then there was the color accuracy issue that everyone has mentioned before.

My personal opinion was that the Elite being judged at the shoot out had too many issues to be deserving of the title of best HDTV. It was perhaps the best LCD but the Samsung plasma had none of the issues exhibited by the Elite. I think perhaps the Elite was given a little too much benefit of the doubt in the judging. A more objective approach to the judging would have been to judge the HDTVs based solely on their performance on the day. I feel that the Elite was cut some slack on its shortcomings at the event because of promises from Sharp that forthcoming firmware would address the issues. Two months have since passed and it seems the issues have still not been addressed.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> I think the 'not recommended' label is more than a bit harsh...don't tell that to David K. who just reviewed & raved about the Elite. Don't tell that to the many many owners who just love their Elites too.
> 
> The cyan color issue is something that the overwhelming majority of people would miss unless they knew what to look for and even then, many still wouldn't see it (ask my wife). But I've always felt the issue should be addressed by Sharp and obviously is.
> 
> The pulsing issue is something that many aren't experiencing and some of those that are don't see it in THX mode (like myself). Again, I'd like to see this addressed and frankly I am surprised that Sharp hasn't been able to reproduce it in their labs.
> 
> But to put the 'not recommended' label on what may be the best display ever and by all accounts is certainly one of the best displays ever, is a bit harsh IMO.


I couldn't agree more buddy. :T



AGuyinGreene said:


> What pulsing issue? I have not seen this at all. Check your AV equipment.
> 
> This TV is amazing. I have never seen a display look so good!
> 
> 
> This is also the first display I have purchased where I didn't need to use game mode. The PC version of Skyrim looks amazing.


I also can't find any issue on my ELITE and I'm not convinced it's an issue all ELITE's share. The only time I ever saw anything remotely strange is when OPC was left On. :coocoo:


----------



## Ken Ross

mechman said:


> That is the nature of the beast. :huh: There is very little incentive for anyone who is happy with their new display to post on the internet. However, if something bothers you about your new display, you're going to vent anywhere and everywhere you can.
> 
> I'm with you here! :T


Yup. Its even worse over at AVS. No actual discussions of the display, just niggling, theorizing and posturing. Most of it comes from non-owners who have no intention of getting the set.


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> I couldn't agree more buddy. :T
> 
> I also can't find any issue on my ELITE and I'm not convinced it's an issue all ELITE's share. The only time I ever saw anything remotely strange is when OPC was left On. :coocoo:


Many would tell you you're not looking hard enough Rad.


----------



## Ken Ross

mjw said:


> I'm not sure if this is the same issue but I was at the 2011 shoot out at VE and saw a similar issue during the Motion Resolutions tests (day 2 part 5 on YouTube). A grey scaling drawing scrolls across a background that is supposed to be white. But on the Elite the background was noticeably off-white in certain patches of the screen. I thought perhaps it was "dirty screen effect". At one point the bottom of the picture even started to judder and break up. The experts thought this second problem may have been an HDMI issue. Then there was the color accuracy issue that everyone has mentioned before.
> 
> My personal opinion was that the Elite being judged at the shoot out had too many issues to be deserving of the title of best HDTV. It was perhaps the best LCD but the Samsung plasma had none of the issues exhibited by the Elite. I think perhaps the Elite was given a little too much benefit of the doubt in the judging. A more objective approach to the judging would have been to judge the HDTVs based solely on their performance on the day. I feel that the Elite was cut some slack on its shortcomings at the event because of promises from Sharp that forthcoming firmware would address the issues. Two months have since passed and it seems the issues have still not been addressed.


Keep in mind the display has been judged 'best' by virtually all reviewers in the various publications. No bias, pure performance.


----------



## rab-byte

Agreed the laws of hi end apply diminishing ROI but better performance. 

It is the best picture one can get right now. 

I for one hope sharp continues to sell this set and other manufacturers pick up the gauntlet because the only way to sustain growth in HD is a continued arms race for PQ. Until now most sets were differentiated buy feature set and less buy PQ. 

If I had the cash it would be a no brainer. But I don't. So I just have to marvel at the picture in clients homes when I calibrate.


----------



## mjw

Ken Ross said:


> Keep in mind the display has been judged 'best' by virtually all reviewers in the various publications. No bias, pure performance.


Well all I can say is that at the shoot out we saw an Elite side by side with top of the line plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung. I really wanted the elite to be the best since I want to buy a new lcd hdtv - I have a bright living room and plasmas are not bright enough. We were asked to judge based on 4 criteria

Black level
Contrast ratio
Color accuracy
Moving resolution

According to instrumentation the Elite was best in the first 2 categories, but to be fair most human eyes would have had difficulty separating the Samsung or the Panasonic from the elite.

However the same cannot be said for the last 2 categories. Anyone could easily see that the color accuracy of the Elite was noticeably off for blue/teal when compared side by side with the other calibrated displays. Even the experts declared that the Samsung had the most accurate colors of all the displays at the shoot out. Also the dirty screen effect was clearly visible on the Elite but absent from other displays during Motion Tests.

Another point to add is that the calibrators took a _couple of days of tweaking_ just to get the Elite to a reasonable level of accuracy. It seems that the Elite is not an easy display to calibrate and at this point there are very few calibrators with experience of the Elite. I also wonder how the Elite hotline service center thing works. Apparently Sharp can connect to your Elite via the Internet and fix issues remotely. What chance do they have of calibrating the Elite correctly during a quick phone call when the service staff can't even see the screen itself ?

The Elite is definitely a top HDTV (if you can afford to have top calibrators tweaking it for days) but in my view it will take another one or two generations to iron the human visible imperfections out of the Elite line. Once they do, I'll buy one.


----------



## kamenoff

Guys, I was wondering if somebody is using Lumagen Radiance video processor with the Elite and if there is improvement of the picture.


----------



## DJG

Currently all I'm doing is a small gamma adjustment across the board and some noise / sharpness adjustments for SD from the BD player. I plan to do a CalMAN DIY calibration soon - I'll post results when it happens.


----------



## cdiez58

mjw said:


> Well all I can say is that at the shoot out we saw an Elite side by side with top of the line plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung. I really wanted the elite to be the best since I want to buy a new lcd hdtv - I have a bright living room and plasmas are not bright enough. We were asked to judge based on 4 criteria
> 
> [*]Black level
> [*]Contrast ratio
> [*]Color accuracy
> [*]Moving resolution
> 
> 
> According to instrumentation the Elite was best in the first 2 categories, but to be fair most human eyes would have had difficulty separating the Samsung or the Panasonic from the elite.
> 
> However the same cannot be said for the last 2 categories. Anyone could easily see that the color accuracy of the Elite was noticeably off for blue/teal when compared side by side with the other calibrated displays. Even the experts declared that the Samsung had the most accurate colors of all the displays at the shoot out. Also the dirty screen effect was clearly visible on the Elite but absent from other displays during Motion Tests.
> 
> Another point to add is that the calibrators took a couple of days of tweaking just to get the Elite to a reasonable level of accuracy. It seems that the Elite is not an easy display to calibrate and at this point there are very few calibrators with experience of the Elite. I also wonder how the Elite hotline service center thing works. Apparently Sharp can connect to your Elite via the Internet and fix issues remotely. What chance do they have of calibrating the Elite correctly during a quick phone call when the service staff can't even see the screen itself ?
> 
> The Elite is definitely a top HDTV (if you can afford to have top calibrators tweaking it for days) but in my view it will take another one or two generations to iron the human visible imperfections out of the Elite line. Once they do, I'll buy one.


Put that Samsung next to the Elite in your bright room and I assure you ....it won't be close....and you'll then understand what you are missing by waiting for those next two generations...l


----------



## mjw

cdiez58 said:


> Put that Samsung next to the Elite in your bright room and I assure you ....it won't be close....and you'll then understand what you are missing by waiting for those next two generations...l


It's a fair point. The competition at Value Electronics took place in a room that was darker than was probably realistic for most homes (and this tends to put plasmas at an advantage). I think this would be something to consider changing for the 2012 shootout.


----------



## Ken Ross

mjw said:


> Well all I can say is that at the shoot out we saw an Elite side by side with top of the line plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung. I really wanted the elite to be the best since I want to buy a new lcd hdtv - I have a bright living room and plasmas are not bright enough. We were asked to judge based on 4 criteria
> 
> Black level
> Contrast ratio
> Color accuracy
> Moving resolution
> 
> According to instrumentation the Elite was best in the first 2 categories, but to be fair most human eyes would have had difficulty separating the Samsung or the Panasonic from the elite.
> 
> However the same cannot be said for the last 2 categories. Anyone could easily see that the color accuracy of the Elite was noticeably off for blue/teal when compared side by side with the other calibrated displays. Even the experts declared that the Samsung had the most accurate colors of all the displays at the shoot out. Also the dirty screen effect was clearly visible on the Elite but absent from other displays during Motion Tests.
> 
> Another point to add is that the calibrators took a _couple of days of tweaking_ just to get the Elite to a reasonable level of accuracy. It seems that the Elite is not an easy display to calibrate and at this point there are very few calibrators with experience of the Elite. I also wonder how the Elite hotline service center thing works. Apparently Sharp can connect to your Elite via the Internet and fix issues remotely. What chance do they have of calibrating the Elite correctly during a quick phone call when the service staff can't even see the screen itself ?
> 
> The Elite is definitely a top HDTV (if you can afford to have top calibrators tweaking it for days) but in my view it will take another one or two generations to iron the human visible imperfections out of the Elite line. Once they do, I'll buy one.


I disagree 100%. The cyan color issue was something that eluded virtually everyone but me. I don't think that qualifies as a 'major' issue. Regardless, a fix will be out in days now and this will be a thing of the past. 

DSE is something that can be very variable from one unit to the next. My 2nd Elite has less DSE than I've seen from any flat panel, including my Pioneer Kuro. 

The Elite home service does not 'calibrate' these TVs, they walk people through issues and basic setup. iSF calibration was never its intention nor did they ever say that was the case. 

So once the color fix is issued, your main gripe is removed...hardly a wait of one or two generations. But regardless, it's clear you're not ready for this display and that's fine.


----------



## DJG

insidiousfix said:


> Anyone notice on empire strikes back Blu ray, in the scene where Han solo finds Luke and put him in the belly of the tauntaun, as han moves against the white background in up close scenes, a sort of odd discoloration. Like the color can't get out of the picture fast enough. Is this part of the source material or my set? I'm using kens settings. Seems to happen on most shots where something dark moves across the white backgrounds of Hoth


I juist checked this out and sure enough, around Hans' head as it moves left & right. Not subtle but also not that annoying. If you step the frames you can see the image quickly adapt, but in actual motion it apparently can't keep up. That's the first time I notice something like this ... I hope I don't start seeing it everywhere now ! Hopefully this is another symptom of the same pulsing problem they're fixing / have fixed?


----------



## Robert Zohn

mjw said:


> Well all I can say is that at the shoot out we saw an Elite side by side with top of the line plasmas from Panasonic and Samsung. I really wanted the elite to be the best since I want to buy a new lcd hdtv - I have a bright living room and plasmas are not bright enough. We were asked to judge based on 4 criteria
> 
> Black level
> Contrast ratio
> Color accuracy
> Moving resolution
> 
> According to instrumentation the Elite was best in the first 2 categories, *but to be fair most human eyes would have had difficulty separating the Samsung or the Panasonic from the elite*.
> 
> However the same cannot be said for the last 2 categories. Anyone could easily see that the color accuracy of the Elite was noticeably off for blue/teal when compared side by side with the other calibrated displays. Even the experts declared that the Samsung had the most accurate colors of all the displays at the shoot out. Also the dirty screen effect was clearly visible on the Elite but absent from other displays during Motion Tests.
> 
> Another point to add is that the calibrators took a _couple of days of tweaking_ just to get the Elite to a reasonable level of accuracy. It seems that the Elite is not an easy display to calibrate and at this point there are very few calibrators with experience of the Elite. I also wonder how the Elite hotline service center thing works. Apparently Sharp can connect to your Elite via the Internet and fix issues remotely. What chance do they have of calibrating the Elite correctly during a quick phone call when the service staff can't even see the screen itself ?
> 
> The Elite is definitely a top HDTV (if you can afford to have top calibrators tweaking it for days) but in my view it will take another one or two generations to iron the human visible imperfections out of the Elite line. Once they do, I'll buy one.


Not exactly true. The Elite clearly exhibited the very best overall picture quality of any display on the shoot-out wall. The detail and overall picture quality easily stood out and the audiences of both nights declared the Elite the "King of HDTV" 

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

mjw said:


> It's a fair point. The competition at Value Electronics took place in a room that was darker than was probably realistic for most homes (and this tends to put plasmas at an advantage). I think this would be something to consider changing for the 2012 shootout.


For about 2/3 of the shoot-out the room is dark, but we turn on all overhead ceiling lights for a good 1/3 of the presentation time so evaluations an be done in normal ambient room light conditions. Not all of the time we're evaluating are the cameras rolling.

Come to our 2012 shoot-out and be a part of deciding on who builds the world's best HDTV.

-Robert


----------



## wizziwig

JimP said:


> The pulsing issue that several members have reported both here and on other forums.
> 
> Some have commented that it's gone or almost gone in the THX mode
> 
> If you haven't seen it, it would be better to not go looking for it.


Agreed. I posted links to some test files you can play from a USB drive attached to the TV in the other forum. I can post the links again here if anyone wants to see the pulsing issue for themselves. It's pretty minor in most cases but once you see it, it's hard to ignore and you might find yourself looking for it instead of enjoying the TV.

On my set at least, it's visible in all modes, including THX.

-Mark


----------



## insidiousfix

DJG said:


> I juist checked this out and sure enough, around Hans' head as it moves left & right. Not subtle but also not that annoying. If you step the frames you can see the image quickly adapt, but in actual motion it apparently can't keep up. That's the first time I notice something like this ... I hope I don't start seeing it everywhere now ! Hopefully this is another symptom of the same pulsing problem they're fixing / have fixed?


Not that I'm happy you see it...but I'm glad I'm not the only one. I have looked elsewhere for this effect on other snow sciences and haven't seen it anywhere but on those Hoth scenes. I watched it on a 65 hx929 and didn't see it there. I just reported it to elite costumer service tonight and sent my attempt to video it.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> I disagree 100%. The cyan color issue was something that eluded virtually everyone but me. I don't think that qualifies as a 'major' issue. Regardless, a fix will be out in days now and this will be a thing of the past.
> 
> DSE is something that can be very variable from one unit to the next. My 2nd Elite has less DSE than I've seen from any flat panel, including my Pioneer Kuro.
> 
> The Elite home service does not 'calibrate' these TVs, they walk people through issues and basic setup. iSF calibration was never its intention nor did they ever say that was the case.
> 
> So once the color fix is issued, your main gripe is removed...hardly a wait of one or two generations. But regardless, it's clear you're not ready for this display and that's fine.


+1 :T



Robert Zohn said:


> Not exactly true. The Elite clearly exhibited the very best overall picture quality of any display on the shoot-out wall. The detail and overall picture quality easily stood out and the audiences of both nights declared the Elite the "King of HDTV"
> 
> -Robert


+1 :T


----------



## tazz3

the new january 2012 issue of home threather did a story on the 60 inch elite calling it the best tv ever and the best lcd ever, and they said that the panel a high tech lcd panel built in a new factory
and its not the same panel usedon the sharp brand lcd only if i had the money i would get a 60 inch


----------



## rab-byte

It's on my short list of stuff I'd get if money were no object. That some AR tube amps and the ML CLX speakers. And a house to put them in.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Robert Zohn said:


> I'm hoping to get a BETA copy of the color fix this week. I understand it's finished and is just pending the legal departments release and approval of the language.
> 
> -Robert


Good morning Robert,
Did ya get the beta F/W yet? If so, you or your gang have any preliminary results?

Thanks!


----------



## Radtech51

That's great news Robert! :sn:



> I'm hoping to get a BETA copy of the color fix this week. I understand it's finished and is just pending the legal departments release and approval of the language.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## DJG

Hopefully that will also have the discrete power commands - I keep forgetting to turn the TV off after shutting the HT off with the remote macro ...


----------



## lynskyn

It should. v2.15 has that.


----------



## DJG

Well, neither the hex-created nor the ones I downloaded from Remote Central seem to work in my 2.15 ...

Edit:

Oops! My bad - I believe I only have 2.14, the last public one I think? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any place to verify your current FW version - maybe they could add that in the next FW version?


----------



## Robert Zohn

I have the discrete codes and instructions on how to install them into the Elite TVs. Anyone who wants them is welcome to email me. 

They can not be posted or PM'd. The only way I can supply them is by email, and I am happy to give them to anyone who sends me an email regardless of where you purchased your Elite TV.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

DJG said:


> Oops! My bad - I believe I only have 2.14, the last public one I think? Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any place to verify your current FW version - maybe they could add that in the next FW version?


OK, looking again at the ID under "Information", I'm guessing the first three digits are the firmware version? You figure they'd make it a bit (a byte?) more user-unencrypted ... :scratch:


----------



## cssldr

I received my 60" Elite today. All I can say is WOW!!. :T

My family likes the picture right out of the box. I'm not an audiophile/videophile so I haven't been able to pick up on the color/pulsing/DSE issues. Frankly, I don't think they would bother me unless they were severe.

Thank you all again for Ken's settings - I'll have fun over the Holiday. 

Is this TV expensive- YES. Is it worth it - ABSOLUTELY. 

Thanks again for all the help and Info.

Charlie


----------



## Robert Zohn

Congratulations Charlie! Let us know if we can be of any help to make your experience as best as it can be and if you need the discrete codes send me an email.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## cssldr

Thank you Robert,

I doubt I'll find any time this week to adjust any settings as my daughters are monopolizing the TV.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Charlie, that's a good thing!

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## sjordan93436

I love my 70. I talked to the local dealer. He was surprised that they are selling quite well, especially the 70's. Not so much of the 60's.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Same ^^ here. I'm shocked at the volume of sales we are doing on these TVs.

-Robert


----------



## kamenoff

Why surpriced? Everybody is saying that this is the best TV on the market...


----------



## DJG

And Ferraris are awesome, top-rated cars - but you don't exactly see them flying off the showrooms ... oh, you want HOW MUCH?????!!!!! :gulp:

OK, back to my 70X5 ...


----------



## Ken Ross

Anyone have news on the release date for the color fix?


----------



## mechman

Ken Ross said:


> Anyone have news on the release date for the color fix?


Did you get the beta from Robert? I believe you have to email him.


----------



## Ken Ross

I didn't realize he had the beta for the color fix. Is he actually sending it out to people who ask?


----------



## mechman

From post 999:



Robert Zohn said:


> I'm hoping to get a BETA copy of the color fix this week. I understand it's finished and is just pending the legal departments release and approval of the language.
> 
> -Robert


And from post 1030:



Robert Zohn said:


> I have the discrete codes and instructions on how to install them into the Elite TVs. Anyone who wants them is welcome to email me.
> 
> They can not be posted or PM'd. The only way I can supply them is by email, and I am happy to give them to anyone who sends me an email regardless of where you purchased your Elite TV.
> 
> -Robert





Ken Ross said:


> I didn't realize he had the beta for the color fix. Is he actually sending it out to people who ask?


Send him an email Ken!


----------



## Ken Ross

I think he has the beta for the codes, but he never confirmed he received the beta for the color. I think it was in legal the last we heard.


----------



## treky11

Does the new release include the discrete codes?

If not, won't it overwrite the discrete codes?


----------



## DJG

Firmware upgrades tend to be cumulative, otherwise what you pointed out happens. In other words, 2.15 has all 2.14 had plus additional changes / corrections / features, 2.16 starts out with 2.15 as a base then applies any new corrections / features, and so on ...


----------



## gimp

Do the ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD have cooling fans? Are they variable speed? Can they be heard?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Why can't you people patiently wait for Sharp to release the update? Your TV will be the first to know! 

Do you really want to put beta firmware on your TV? What if it bricks your TV - then what? Even if you're under warranty, I doubt it would cover installation of non-release firmware. Just saying.


----------



## Radtech51

gimp said:


> Do the ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD have cooling fans? Are they variable speed? Can they be heard?


I'm going to assume the ELITE does have some cooling fans, with that said I can here no noise from fans or anything else like I did with my Panasonic VT30 Plasma. The ELITE is super quiet! :sn:


----------



## rolling green

yes I agree, absolutely no noise. It behaves just as a computer monitor would. My pioneer plasma had fans and I could hear them slightly, but the big click along with the dimming of lights everytime I turned it on became tiresome.


----------



## DJG

My 70X5FD is very well seen but not heard at all (except what comes out the sound system of course, which is not part of the TV anyway). If there are fans they either never go on or are mute. And it doesn't seem to heat up, so I can't count on it as a heating element in the winter cold either. Oh, well.


----------



## Ken Ross

gimp said:


> Do the ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD have cooling fans?  Are they variable speed? Can they be heard?


I'm not aware of any and I'm not sure they're really needed. Given the incredibly low power consumption and almost non-existent heat, I'd be surprised if there are any fans.


----------



## Theatredaz

* Has anyone here calibrated Thier Display yet?

What gets calibrated?> the 10 point gray scale?

Please Post your calibration if possible.

Gonna have mine calibrated via the store I purchased it from.


----------



## Robert Zohn

I just spoke with Sharp's top exec about the pending color fix and was told to wait till CES to discuss this with the Elite engineering execs from Japan and we should have the fix very soon after CES. I'll be in that meeting and hope to bring Kevin Miller or D-Nice with me.

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

I'm going to chime in with my "glass half empty" hypothesis... If they had answers to provide, they would have provided them now. But since Sharp/Elite is pushing Robert off for another three weeks to discuss the issue at CES tells me that there is something much more to this issue. And if the firmware update was passing through "legal" as Robert stated earlier, then again, why do we have to wait until CES to discuss the issue with Elite's engineers? I thought it was already making its way through legal.

Something doesn't smell right...


----------



## Theatredaz

If they can't fix the color issue with the yellow sub pixel then> the display can't be advertised as a RGB+Y color display any longer?


----------



## Robert Zohn

AZREOSpecialist, I understand your feelings; I just pass along what I am told as I hear it. The reason for the varied information is that I have several contacts. This update comes from the top Elite exec., which is why I referenced that in my last updated post. 

I'll be at the press conference on 1/9 and Sharp is on my schedule for the first morning meeting at the CES opening on 1/10 and I will post the results of my meetings.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Theatredaz said:


> If they can't fix the color issue with the yellow sub pixel then> the display can't be advertised as a RGB+Y color display any longer?


I don't believe that is the case.

-Robert


----------



## Glass2

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I'm going to chime in with my "glass half empty" hypothesis... If they had answers to provide, they would have provided them now. But since Sharp/Elite is pushing Robert off for another three weeks to discuss the issue at CES tells me that there is something much more to this issue. And if the firmware update was passing through "legal" as Robert stated earlier, then again, why do we have to wait until CES to discuss the issue with Elite's engineers? I thought it was already making its way through legal.
> 
> Something doesn't smell right...


Do you think at CES they will come out with new improved Elite 60A and 70A models which will have the color fix and pulsing fix? They can then sell these for a few months at MSRP since I doubt there is a huge backlog of current Elite 60 and 70 models sitting in some warehouse.

It's certainly a dilemma for anyone like myself who is ready to purchase this set and was waiting for the fixes. Been quite some time 
since they were promised so it appears that it isn't an easy FW fix, maybe it really is a hardware issue not a software issue.


----------



## JimP

Glass

Some would say you dodged the bullet.


----------



## DJG

Glass2 said:


> ... It's certainly a dilemma for anyone like myself who is ready to purchase this set and was waiting for the fixes. ...


You don't have a dilemma, you have a choice - us current owners have a dilemma :hissyfit: ...


----------



## Hutchinshouse

So much for the original "month for firmware fix" quote. Yeah, I agree with others, something doesn't seem right. However, still love my Elite, and CNET gave it a 10 out of 10 on performance. Enough said!


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Robert Zohn said:


> AZREOSpecialist, I understand your feelings; I just pass along what I am told as I hear it. The reason for the varied information is that I have several contacts. This update comes from the top Elite exec., which is why I referenced that in my last updated post.
> 
> I'll be at the press conference on 1/9 and Sharp is on my schedule for the first morning meeting at the CES opening on 1/10 and I will post the results of my meetings.
> 
> -Robert


Robert, you've been absolutely TERRIFIC throughout. I didn't mean to imply this had anything to do with you. It's obvious that the color "issue" is more complicated to fix than originally thought. If it's a hardware issue, I can almost guarantee that this will not be covered under warranty because, technically, it is not a manufacturing defect or a failing component. Elite never made a claim that the TV has 100% color accuracy, so correspondingly we can't hold the manufacturer accountable for something they never promised.

I'm pretty much a couch potato after work. I've NEVER seen the effects of this color issue, but I'm also not a calibrator or a purist in that regard. In my opinion this TV has the most natural and pleasing color reproduction out of the box than any other TV I've ever owned. I was pretty miffed with the background brightness fluctuation (aka "pulsing") issue, but now that I have used CNETs THX settings I'm perfectly happy in that mode, which does not exhibit the background fluctuation / pulsing issue.


----------



## Theatredaz

* The TV is a great display> as most display's come, technology they add to it to make us happy gets complicated sometimes, and thus introduces stuff that we might not like> although this display is twice the price of any other comparable display> price drops will occur and for those who are in the market for a new TV in the coming months, the price drop will make this display well worth the purchase regardless of color issue's in the long run, since it definatley beats out most displays that have other more bothersome issues than color inaccuracy.


----------



## DJG

Put me down as another happy satisfied owner of their "imperfect Elite" :TT. Didn't mean to make my previous post look like an actual rant :doh:!

I mean, I turn the danged thing on just to look at the gorgeous PQ!


----------



## cdiez58

Theatredaz said:


> If they can't fix the color issue with the yellow sub pixel then> the display can't be advertised as a RGB+Y color display any longer?


Seriously....this subject need to be discussed by engineers. Just saying that the yellow subpixel is unnecessary is just general lack of understanding of the technology...this is not an simple RGB technology. Because LCD needs to work with 4 colors...RED BLUE and GREEN...+ Backlight color. (there are a lot of white LEDs from warm to very cool) Did you know that there is no native white LED....a white LED is a BLUE LED with yellow phosphors added to it to make it white.... those engineers added YELLOW to an LED !!! they cant do that you wont be able to calibrate it!!! ...WRONG..my point is yellow is the x factor in LCD/LED tech. Maybe they didnt have to add as much yellow phosphor to the blue leds when it can be better controled via the LCD film....plus the yellow phosphor is the first thing to decay in a white LED...maybe the yellow subpixel can extend the life of the TV as it can compensate for an aged white LED...some things to thing about?


----------



## Ken Ross

Robert Zohn said:


> I just spoke with Sharp's top exec about the pending color fix and was told to wait till CES to discuss this with the Elite engineering execs from Japan and we should have the fix very soon after CES. I'll be in that meeting and hope to bring Kevin Miller or D-Nice with me.
> 
> -Robert


I agree with some of the posters on this Robert, something doesn't sound right. If the fix was essentially finished and just needed to pass through legal, this latest comment by Sharp doesn't mesh with the previous statement. It really doesn't sound like the fix was ever finalized and it does make me wonder if there's something more to this than we know?


----------



## Theatredaz

It's funny you mention the yellow pixels extends the life of the displays brightness, when I removed my old LG display I previously owned> I ended up plugging it back in to test out some components> and I experienced the strange phenomenom known as image degradation effect...basically HD movies I owned seemed slightly faded or lacklustre compared to the New Elite TV model> this effect must be the programming you brain uses to improve certain repetitive functions and enhance them despite their inferior optical capabilities> such as 480p CRT I owned> can you imagine that for the last 60 years we've watched TV (CRT) that was poorly articulated for us to view optically with proper focus? when I turned on my old CRT monitor I replaced I couldn't believe how pixelatd it seemed compared to my new 1080p LCD monitor it replaced.

* Basically the Optical effect I noticed on my LG LCD as slightly faded or not as punchy as I once thought could be due to the CFL backlight starting to lose gas and cause the TV to fade, this shows that older LCD's will eventually begin to fade if built poorly> and that LED displays will not experience such brightness degradation.


----------



## The Executor

This is very sad news. When I purchased my Elite I gave sharp the benefit of the doubt and figured the fix would arrive within a month. Now it appears the fix is nowhere near finished...and CES will bring further discussion on the matter? That's not what i wanted to hear. Very dissapointed


----------



## Robert Zohn

Robert Zohn said:


> AZREOSpecialist, I understand your feelings; I just pass along what I am told as I hear it. *The reason for the varied information is that I have several contacts. This update comes from the top Elite exec., which is why I referenced that in my last updated post. *
> 
> I'll be at the press conference on 1/9 and Sharp is on my schedule for the first morning meeting at the CES opening on 1/10 and I will post the results of my meetings.
> 
> -Robert


I understand everyone's feelings, but as I have said before in several posts, I pass along what I hear and speak to several folks that have varied information.

We're only two weeks away from CES, let's see what develops then. 

I also want to add that firmware fixes typically take months so although we had expected it sooner it's not unusual for firmware fixes to take several months.

Let's see what happens in two weeks at CES before we speculate any further.

-Robert


----------



## Glenee

Well Now. I for one am a Happy camper with my Elite. Even with it's recognized Flaws it's still the Best Display on the Market today. That Said.
I absolutley have No Tolerance for a Manufacturer that Openly Gloats there abilities to Fix something and then recants that Fast. They would of been better Off just saying: Yea that's a Flaw some people see, but on this display that's the way it is, and then have fixed it later if they could. The consumer can now make a decision to purchase or not. 
I would of still purchased.
It's not Just Sharp. It seems to be the Norm for most manufactures( i.e. Panasonic, Sony, Samsung, Pioneer) to run their Mouths way above their abilities.
Why can't they be more like OPPO. Here's the way Oppo handles it: 1. Here's the Fix or 2. It not going to be fixed or changed and here's why.
My attitude is to purchase with what I have and am seeing right in front of me at the time of purchase. I listen to other owners, but not the Mouth Work of Manufactures.
I would still purchase this TV today, because of what I see. 
Robert just reports what the Mouths Say.
Thanks for Keeping us informed.
I for one will not be downloading any fixes right as they occur. The reason being they may mess up more than they Fix.
My 2 Cents


----------



## Theatredaz

Seeing how well my display has worked so far, the only gripe I have is some bluray flicks that are poorly done exasperate how dark scenes are rendered and flaws are more obvious now than with my 37" LG I owned> especially with film noise or whatever it is...that's the only problem I have to deal with...it's too bad that some bluray's of older titles are not done that well, and now I understand why most reviews tend to go into details about how the film was transfered. But being a 60" set these slight flaws are more noticable...only in certain scenes, and are not always consitent through the entire movie. But I feel the trade-off is that I will never experience haloing, DSE, crushed blacks and other distracting issues as with other displays.

Sharp/Pioneer may have a color issue with the display> but I don't see it being the straw that breaks the camels back> there aren't too many or enough videophiles out there to really care about a flaw you can't really see, just people that wan't a display that works great out of the box with NO major visible flaws in image rendering. I'm sure as the price goes down...less and less people will be complaining about minor flaws of the set....basically if the set is selling in the low 4K range> then this set is the best bang for the buck for an extra 1K over the Sony.


----------



## JimP

Glenee and Theatredax......great post guys.

Basically, you have to assume that Sharp isn't going to fix squat and be willing to buy the set as you currently see it at a price that is right for you.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Sorry to say, I don't agree. In my experience with displays, Pioneer, Sharp and Panasonic (with the exception of the raising MLL in 2008-09) are the very best at fixing defects and coming up with enhancements through firmware upgrades. I have not seen the same proactive support from the other manufacturers. 

And in regard to Sharp's color fix, let's give them the two additional week till CES to get the definitive answer on the color fix. Also, calibrators have been able to work around the under-saturated green and incorrect teal decoding so it's a truly a minor issue. Even CNET's and the settings I have given to dozens of Elite TV owners have helped significantly in the color accuracy as well as the pulsing background anomaly.

Two weeks, not much more time to wait for our answer.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> I just spoke with Sharp's top exec about the pending color fix and was told to wait till CES to discuss this with the Elite engineering execs from Japan and we should have the fix very soon after CES. I'll be in that meeting and hope to bring Kevin Miller or D-Nice with me.
> 
> -Robert


Thank you for the update my friend, I will be looking forward to your next report on 1-10-12. :clap:

PS: Once the color fix is available and Kevin calibrates my ELITE I'll post some more pictures. :sn:


----------



## DJG

I'd like to add as a corporate software developer / architect that seemingly "simple fixes" are often not simple due to interdependencies. It's very easy while fixing something to break something else. The more complex the system the more exposed to this it becomes. Today's TVs are very complex.

If for example you think about what changing the bias on a particular color LED will do, you would need to re-work many other algorithms being used such as overall brightness, contrast, local dimming, tint, greyscale tracking, etc. You then need to do regression testing (that's testing stuff that currently works but might be affected because of the interdependencies) and this is what takes a lot of the time & resources. The original fix for the bug is now a very small part of the actual effort.

Sorry for the somewhat off-topic, but I thought relevant to the situation.


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> I'd like to add as a corporate software developer / architect that seemingly "simple fixes" are often not simple due to interdependencies. It's very easy while fixing something to break something else. The more complex the system the more exposed to this it becomes. Today's TVs are very complex.
> 
> If for example you think about what changing the bias on a particular color LED will do, you would need to re-work many other algorithms being used such as overall brightness, contrast, local dimming, tint, greyscale tracking, etc. You then need to do regression testing (that's testing stuff that currently works but might be affected because of the interdependencies) and this is what takes a lot of the time & resources. The original fix for the bug is now a very small part of the actual effort.
> 
> Sorry for the somewhat off-topic, but I thought relevant to the situation.


Thank you for the insight, I'm sure if it were as simple to fix as some people think it would be out by now. I'd rather they take their time and get it right on the first attempt. lddude:


----------



## Ken Ross

Thanks to Robert and others for their insight and well written responses.

Let's hang in there, I'm sure this will be fixed. Let's also keep in mind that the cyan error went unnoticed by virtually everyone for quite some time. So as Robert said, it's not like a major issue.


----------



## Theatredaz

* I've noticed the pulsing backlight issue on the Movie ~Aliens (bluray) it does it through out the entire movie. Strange effect> could be a glitch somehere with how the content renders frames or somthing?

I hope the delay is that Sharp is putting together an infrastructure (technical employees) to provide consistent updates and glitch modification and resolution etc> Oppo, DVDO both do this with their stuff and they work almost flawlessly after all the updates etc> I hope Sharp goes down that route with the elite brand of TV.


----------



## cdiez58

Theatredaz said:


> It's funny you mention the yellow pixels extends the life of the displays brightness, when I removed my old LG display I previously owned> I ended up plugging it back in to test out some components> and I experienced the strange phenomenom known as image degradation effect...basically HD movies I owned seemed slightly faded or lacklustre compared to the New Elite TV model> this effect must be the programming you brain uses to improve certain repetitive functions and enhance them despite their inferior optical capabilities> such as 480p CRT I owned> can you imagine that for the last 60 years we've watched TV (CRT) that was poorly articulated for us to view optically with proper focus? when I turned on my old CRT monitor I replaced I couldn't believe how pixelatd it seemed compared to my new 1080p LCD monitor it replaced.
> 
> * Basically the Optical effect I noticed on my LG LCD as slightly faded or not as punchy as I once thought could be due to the CFL backlight starting to lose gas and cause the TV to fade, this shows that older LCD's will eventually begin to fade if built poorly> and that LED displays will not experience such brightness degradation.


Both LCD backlight technologies (ccft and led) use phosphors to correct their native color...and phosphor performance decays over time...it physics...black and white


----------



## Theatredaz

* LED's have a longerlife than cfl regardless of phosphor content from what I understand> I've never seen a LED that is severley faded.


----------



## rab-byte

cdiez58 said:


> Both LCD backlight technologies (ccft and led) use phosphors to correct their native color...and phosphor performance decays over time...it physics...black and white


No no no. 
Phosphor based tech is plasma/CRT there is no phosphor in LCD displays. LED/CCFL back lights do age but they don't use phosphor to create light. 

LEDs dim over time as do CCFL and they can present a color shift but no LCD to my knowledge uses phosphor. As that would eliminate the need for a backlight.


----------



## cdiez58

rab-byte said:


> No no no.
> Phosphor based tech is plasma/CRT there is no phosphor in LCD displays. LED/CCFL back lights do age but they don't use phosphor to create light.
> 
> LEDs dim over time as do CCFL and they can present a color shift but no LCD to my knowledge uses phosphor. As that would eliminate the need for a backlight.


Sorry to disagree...check your facts...phosphors are are used to correct color in ccfl and led...it's a huge component in LEDs as their are no native white LEDs ...they are blue LEDs with phosphors added to make them appear white


----------



## cdiez58

Theatredaz said:


> * LED's have a longerlife than cfl regardless of phosphor content from what I understand> I've never seen a LED that is severley faded.


Absolutely true...Im saying that the yellow pixel could play a role in proper calibration in an older Led backlit TV


----------



## cdiez58

rab-byte said:


> No no no.
> Phosphor based tech is plasma/CRT there is no phosphor in LCD displays. LED/CCFL back lights do age but they don't use phosphor to create light.
> 
> LEDs dim over time as do CCFL and they can present a color shift but no LCD to my knowledge uses phosphor. As that would eliminate the need for a backlight.





cdiez58 said:


> If you are interested Great technical doc on phosphors and LEDs...
> 
> http://www.electrochem.org/dl/interface/wtr/wtr09/wtr09_p032-036.pdf


----------



## rab-byte

cdiez58 said:


> Sorry to disagree...check your facts...phosphors are are used to correct color in ccfl and led...it's a huge component in LEDs as their are no native white LEDs ...they are blue LEDs with phosphors added to make them appear white


Sorry I was under the impression that you were referring to the LCD layer. of the display. I was unaware that phosphor was used in the LEF layer. I'll look into this further.


----------



## Theatredaz

* LED definatly degrade over time> but over a very long long time before we'll ever notice any shift...and that's if we use the tv 24/7 days a wekk...not just 3-4 times a week for 3-4 hours viewing. Led based projectors have a 20,000 hour lifespan compared to Bulb based projector @ 4,000-5,000 at best. Just my opinion.


----------



## Glenee

Getting a lesson in different Technologies. I just Love trading Information and knowledge. 

It's nice to know this display is going to look good for a long time.

Thanks


----------



## DJG

OK, I spent all afternoon & evening playing around with the CalMAN DIY software + interactive add-on. I started with the CNN settings on the Elite. I ended up with a greyscale calibration using the 10-point white balance option rather than the CMS calibration on the Radiance. All I can say is more WOW! The shadow detail is even better and the colors pop but with a natural feel.

Obviously my 10-point white balance / temperature settings replaced the CNN ones, which only goes to show that individual sets have differences (isn't that why they provide all those sophisticated adjustments?) But if you're not calibrating it's obviously always great to have a base to use.

One of the things I finally managed to conquer is a tendency to use all the dynamic range the TV provides. At the bright / highlight end the TV can actually resolve nuances considerably above what one would term a proper contrast setting, and I tended to want to include some of it (I hate wasting resources!). But it really doesn't help in the long run. Of course it's there for bright settings in a lit room, but I calibrate for a dark room so I finally resisted the temptation.

Like Theatrdaz I also send 36-bit deep color from my Oppo 83-SE.

I have seen no motion artifacts nor pulsing. I checked the DVE HD Basics demo material, which has some difficult stuff in it, and could see no problems anywhere. The only anomally I have seen is in the Star Wars Ep. V scene with Hans stuffing Luke into the carcass and I have not seen that anywhere else so far, and I've seen quite a few difficult BD movies both dark and with lots of movement, including animation. And that could be perceived as something in the source material, though it's not.

If I want to nitpick there is a slight uniformity uneveness in the mid-left upper area but it's so slight even looking for it it's hard to detect, and when I do it's for a fraction of a second once in a blue moon on a large smooth panning area. Nothing like the banding I had in my LG and not really an issue.

:T:T:T Gotta love this TV. Awesome blacks & shadow detail, no halos or motion artifacts to be seen, beautiful pop & natural colors (haven't noticed the cyan thinghy) ... 

And any 70" set that DirecTV HD looks good in deserves praise!

Happy Holidays, everyone, whatever the make & model of your TV might be!


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

DJG said:


> OK, I spent all afternoon & evening playing around with the CalMAN DIY software + interactive add-on. I started with the CNN settings on the Elite. I ended up with a greyscale calibration using the 10-point white balance option rather than the CMS calibration on the Radiance. All I can say is more WOW! The shadow detail is even better and the colors pop but with a natural feel.
> 
> Obviously my 10-point white balance / temperature settings replaced the CNN ones, which only goes to show that individual sets have differences (isn't that why they provide all those sophisticated adjustments?) But if you're not calibrating it's obviously always great to have a base to use.
> 
> One of the things I finally managed to conquer is a tendency to use all the dynamic range the TV provides. At the bright / highlight end the TV can actually resolve nuances considerably above what one would term a proper contrast setting, and I tended to want to include some of it (I hate wasting resources!). But it really doesn't help in the long run. Of course it's there for bright settings in a lit room, but I calibrate for a dark room so I finally resisted the temptation.
> 
> Like Theatrdaz I also send 36-bit deep color from my Oppo 83-SE.
> 
> I have seen no motion artifacts nor pulsing. I checked the DVE HD Basics demo material, which has some difficult stuff in it, and could see no problems anywhere. The only anomally I have seen is in the Star Wars Ep. V scene with Hans stuffing Luke into the carcass and I have not seen that anywhere else so far, and I've seen quite a few difficult BD movies both dark and with lots of movement, including animation. And that could be perceived as something in the source material, though it's not.
> 
> If I want to nitpick there is a slight uniformity uneveness in the mid-left upper area but it's so slight even looking for it it's hard to detect, and when I do it's for a fraction of a second once in a blue moon on a large smooth panning area. Nothing like the banding I had in my LG and not really an issue.
> 
> :T:T:T Gotta love this TV. Awesome blacks & shadow detail, no halos or motion artifacts to be seen, beautiful pop & natural colors (haven't noticed the cyan thinghy) ...
> 
> And any 70" set that DirecTV HD looks good in deserves praise!
> 
> Happy Holidays, everyone, whatever the make & model of your TV might be!


Setting your blu-ray player to output in "deep color" should have no impact on what you see because no blu-ray content, to my knowledge, is encoded using deep color. This setting only matters if the content is actually encoded with deep color information.


----------



## DJG

I didn't say it did anything in particular, just that it was on. But thanks for the additional info. When it shows up I'm ready for it :jiggy:!


----------



## cdiez58

Did my first 3d movie on my 70x5. (tron) ....wow this set rocks....setting 3d in high brightness mode is an awesome feature....totally offsets the dimness created by the tinted glasses....no crosstalk ...super contrast...really bright. Actually was giddy...lol. Happens pretty frequently with this set.

Even my wife noticed how good this tv is....and we've had two Kuros.


----------



## Theatredaz

All deep color provides is finer color gradients, which help with motion articulation etc IMO> the oppo might not output deep color if there is no input signal> but I'm assuming My DVDO edge set at 36bit will up-convert the color signal to 12Bits per channel, as the TV manual explains etc> this definatly does somthing to the image as I noticed SD images became finer in compression noise.


----------



## rab-byte

Theatredaz said:


> All deep color provides is finer color gradients, which help with motion articulation etc IMO> the oppo might not output deep color if there is no input signal> but I'm assuming My DVDO edge set at 36bit will up-convert the color signal to 12Bits per channel, as the TV manual explains etc> this definatly does somthing to the image as I noticed SD images became finer in compression noise.


I've found with other displays that deep color pull the TV further away from REC709 spec. I'd love to hear if you or anyone else is finding the same.


----------



## Spiff69

DJG said:


> OK, I spent all afternoon & evening playing around with the CalMAN DIY software + interactive add-on. I started with the CNN settings on the Elite. I ended up with a greyscale calibration using the 10-point white balance option rather than the CMS calibration on the Radiance. All I can say is more WOW! The shadow detail is even better and the colors pop but with a natural feel.
> 
> Obviously my 10-point white balance / temperature settings replaced the CNN ones, which only goes to show that individual sets have differences (isn't that why they provide all those sophisticated adjustments?) But if you're not calibrating it's obviously always great to have a base to use.
> 
> One of the things I finally managed to conquer is a tendency to use all the dynamic range the TV provides. At the bright / highlight end the TV can actually resolve nuances considerably above what one would term a proper contrast setting, and I tended to want to include some of it (I hate wasting resources!). But it really doesn't help in the long run. Of course it's there for bright settings in a lit room, but I calibrate for a dark room so I finally resisted the temptation.
> 
> Like Theatrdaz I also send 36-bit deep color from my Oppo 83-SE.
> 
> I have seen no motion artifacts nor pulsing. I checked the DVE HD Basics demo material, which has some difficult stuff in it, and could see no problems anywhere. The only anomally I have seen is in the Star Wars Ep. V scene with Hans stuffing Luke into the carcass and I have not seen that anywhere else so far, and I've seen quite a few difficult BD movies both dark and with lots of movement, including animation. And that could be perceived as something in the source material, though it's not.
> 
> If I want to nitpick there is a slight uniformity uneveness in the mid-left upper area but it's so slight even looking for it it's hard to detect, and when I do it's for a fraction of a second once in a blue moon on a large smooth panning area. Nothing like the banding I had in my LG and not really an issue.
> 
> :T:T:T Gotta love this TV. Awesome blacks & shadow detail, no halos or motion artifacts to be seen, beautiful pop & natural colors (haven't noticed the cyan thinghy) ...
> 
> And any 70" set that DirecTV HD looks good in deserves praise!
> 
> Happy Holidays, everyone, whatever the make & model of your TV might be!


What are the CNN settings?


Also, what meter did you use with Calman?


----------



## rab-byte

Spiff69 said:


> What are the CNN settings?


2nd


----------



## DJG

Spiff69 said:


> What are the CNN settings?
> 
> 
> Also, what meter did you use with Calman?


I use a Spyder 3 meter.

C-NET Settings


----------



## Theatredaz

*Here's an Elite Calibration video @ 100POINT IRE. Image Comparison Before & After Calibration.
*
* http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZvP5yZhac&feature=player_detailpage#t=134s


----------



## Robert Zohn

Theatredaz, great video, ^^ thanks for sharing with us.

-Robert


----------



## Theatredaz

It looks remarkable what 100 IRE calibration can do. And I've found a 10point IRE is a significant improvement overall.

* Here's a video that shows the benefit of a 100 IRE calibration for improved rendering of distant objects in a Game Environment ~ that could appear faint when improperly calibrated.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKWMqPkBzIY&feature=player_detailpage#t=288s


----------



## mechman

Just for clarification, that video shows a 10 point auto grayscale calibration. :T


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Theatredaz said:


> *Here's an Elite Calibration video @ 100POINT IRE. Image Comparison Before & After Calibration.
> *
> * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_ZvP5yZhac&feature=player_detailpage#t=134s


Would you mind sharing your settings?


----------



## txenakis

Theatredaz said:


> It looks remarkable what 100Point calibration can do. And I've found a 10point IRE is a significant improvement overall.
> 
> * Here's a video that shows the benefit of a 100 IRE calibration for improved rendering of distant objects in a Game Environment ~ that could appear faint when improperly calibrated.


That look mighty impressive. I'm unfamiliar with the gear needed to do this type o calibration. Would the Calman software, a computer and a light meter suffice? Or are there other elements involved?


----------



## mechman

CalMAN, a meter and the auto calibration add on will accomplish what you're asking.


----------



## txenakis

mechman said:


> CalMAN, a meter and the auto calibration add on will accomplish what you're asking.


Cool thanks for the quick answer. Any meter will do? I was thinking of getting the i1Display Pro which seems to be the entry level metel for Calman. Will that meter be enough or do i have to purchase the more expensive models?


----------



## DJG

Here's a comparison of the greyscale tracking between the 10-point AutoCal in YouTube and my interactive 21-point calibration. One thing I found was that there can be a fair difference in the intermediate extra points between two ten-point entries, i.e. the 75 between the 70 and 80 for all three colors.

It became much trickier than I expected to get the in-between points to the same or similar levels as the two surrounding points and sometimes required modifying the next-level points left and right (50 & 90 for the 70). This is because although you're leveling 21 points (0, 5, 10, 15, ...95, 100), you can only affect RGB levels in ten places (10, 20 ...90, 100) in the Elite controls, and there are interactions between and among the colors - increasing one often lowers / raises the others.

But hey, it's a hobby!

I should point out that getting the dark three points - 5, 10 & 15, all leveled was the real pain! That's because down there there's very little data to work with. If a value is 2-3 bits worth out of the full 10 or 12 bits available at the light end, well reducing it by 1 could be a 25% reduction in light, or even more in the 5 point!


YouTube CalMAN AutoCal 10-point:











DJG CalMAN DIY Interactive 21-point:


----------



## Radtech51

Watched Kung Fu Panda II last night with CNET's settings, looks incredible. 

Was curious though, I couldn't find the option for > Quad Pixel Plus: Off


----------



## mechman

txenakis said:


> Cool thanks for the quick answer. Any meter will do? I was thinking of getting the i1Display Pro which seems to be the entry level metel for Calman. Will that meter be enough or do i have to purchase the more expensive models?


That meter would be fine. It's called the C6 though at SpectraCal. They also offer the OEM i1display and retail i1display as well for a much cheaper price. And they are good for LED's so you don't need the additional tables that the C6 offers for the extra $450.

It's really a matter of how much you want to spend. You're looking at about $500 right now. :T


----------



## DJG

Radtech51 said:


> Watched Kung Fu Panda II last night with CNET's settings, looks incredible.
> 
> Was curious though, I couldn't find the option for > Quad Pixel Plus: Off


I believe that might be refering to the "Precision Color Plus" option.


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> I believe that might be refering to the "Precision Color Plus" option.


Ok, thanks I'll check it out when I get home. :sneeky:


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Radtech51 said:


> Ok, thanks I'll check it out when I get home. :sneeky:


There used to be a "quad pixel off" option in the pre-release firmware, but the option was removed when the set actually started shipping. There was disagreement over whether the shipping THX mode used the yellow subpixel, which it does. I do not believe this was referring to "precision color", which I would leave on. I would also leave Local Contrast set to on - the image looks a bit washed out without that.

My new favorite video mode is the standard non-THX Movie mode. Skin tones look more natural to me. Even with the CNET settings I find that THX Movie mode is far too yellow, even with skin tones. I still marvel at how many people prefer the THX mode even though I find the color to be quite inaccurate. Different strokes I suppose!


----------



## Ken Ross

AZREOSpecialist said:


> There used to be a "quad pixel off" option in the pre-release firmware, but the option was removed when the set actually started shipping. There was disagreement over whether the shipping THX mode used the yellow subpixel, which it does. I do not believe this was referring to "precision color", which I would leave on. I would also leave Local Contrast set to on - the image looks a bit washed out without that.
> 
> My new favorite video mode is the standard non-THX Movie mode. Skin tones look more natural to me. Even with the CNET settings I find that THX Movie mode is far too yellow, even with skin tones. I still marvel at how many people prefer the THX mode even though I find the color to be quite inaccurate. Different strokes I suppose!


I used to prefer the non-THX movie mode, but to my eyes the THX skin tones look more accurate. There is such a huge variation in skin tones with programming, I find it almost impossible to generalize. They can vary from ruddy to tan to a bit yellowish in some movies. But hey, I've noticed yellowish skin tones in the movies too.


----------



## JimP

I think the key to skin tones is that you more frequently see good skin tones with proper calibration. 

With poor color calibration, you almost never see a good skin tone.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Ken Ross said:


> I used to prefer the non-THX movie mode, but to my eyes the THX skin tones look more accurate. There is such a huge variation in skin tones with programming, I find it almost impossible to generalize. They can vary from ruddy to tan to a bit yellowish in some movies. But hey, I've noticed yellowish skin tones in the movies too.





JimP said:


> I think the key to skin tones is that you more frequently see good skin tones with proper calibration.
> 
> With poor color calibration, you almost never see a good skin tone.


Both statement are true. Jim is correct that your TV will not deliver the correct skin tones unless it's calibrated. Now the calibration does not necessarily have to be professionally done as many DIY calibrations are very acceptable and we have some very good calibration discs available. 

Skin tones are the single most important color to get right. However, as Ken correctly says directors and cinema-photographers do stylize movies and broadcast TV and sometimes even skin tones to match their theme or the scene feeling.

As a serious photographer hobbyist I love stylizing scenes, but most of all enjoy the best possible reproduction of skin tones when shot under 6500k lighting, like outdoors at high noon or in a indoor shoot with a professional lighting controlled environment.

-Robert


----------



## JimP

Robert Zohn said:


> ...snip...
> As a serious photographer hobbyist I love stylizing scenes, but most of all enjoy the best possible reproduction of skin tones when shot under 6500k lighting, like outdoors at high noon or in a indoor shoot with a professional lighting controlled environment.
> 
> -Robert


When all else fails, there's always photoshop.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Photoshop is my very good friend.  However, it's easier to get skin tones right when creating the photo.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Or you can shoot raw and worry about it later :T


----------



## JimP

DJG said:


> Or you can shoot raw and worry about it later :T


Agreed.

In a way, you can do a lot more with current digital cameras than you ever could with film. Although I do miss my Hasselblads and RBs, I have more fun shooting digital.


----------



## Ken Ross

Robert Zohn said:


> Photoshop is my very good friend.  However, it's easier to get skin tones right when creating the photo.
> 
> -Robert


Very true Robert. It amazes me how many careless videographers will say when bypassing correct white balance procedures, "No biggie, I can always fix it in post". You know as well as I that although you can correct poor initial WB at the time of a shoot, you'll never get the colors looking as good as if the WB were done correctly from the get go.


----------



## JimP

Is there even an equivalent to camera raw in video??


----------



## DJG

Ken Ross said:


> Very true Robert. It amazes me how many careless videographers will say when bypassing correct white balance procedures, "No biggie, I can always fix it in post". You know as well as I that although you can correct poor initial WB at the time of a shoot, you'll never get the colors looking as good as if the WB were done correctly from the get go.


Unless, of course, you shoot in raw format, one of the the greatest things to happen to photography :sn:!

No raw in video, though.

Oops! Sorry, Ken, just realized you were refering to video! - Senile DJ


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

JimP said:


> Is there even an equivalent to camera raw in video??


While there is no "raw" in video, per se, the higher the bitrate of the recording and the higher the color sampling, the more latitude you have to grade the video in post. This is one of the reasons why the RED system is so highly coveted by serious filmmakers. Most consumer-grade and semi-pro gear don't offer adequate bitrate codecs or 4:2:2 (4:4:4 preferred) color sampling. You'll find most higher end consumer gear recording at 4:2:0 with various lossy codecs in the 40-50 Mbit/s range.


----------



## Ken Ross

JimP said:


> Is there even an equivalent to camera raw in video??


Nope


----------



## dsskid

Good info, but can we get back on topic?


----------



## Theatredaz

The You Tube video I posted> shows how other modes (Elite Pure / Standard/ Dynamic etc) are not perfect at displaying ther best PQ> and that proper calibration will give the best consistent performance results.


----------



## Theatredaz

*Sharp's LCD Manufacturing Facilities to prioritize smaller LCD manufacturing.*

Apple is expected to use newer IGZO (indium gallium zinc oxide) displays in its new products rather than the usual IPS (in-plane switching) panels that have been used so far.

The first IGZO displays will debut in the upcoming Apple mobile products. For example Apple will use IGZO displays, produced by Sharp in order to upgrade the display resolution of its new tablets to full HD level.

Sharp has already changed production priorities to meet Apple’s needs by switching production lines from making large size panels to making smaller ones. Sharp’s new Galapagos tablet line up, expected in 2012, will also feature IGZO displays.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Hope everyone has had a good holiday this past week! I'm assuming no cyan fix yet, correct? 

I'm getting a replacement 70" elite. Hopefully this one will be better!

Last note, when viewing standard definition content when only available (ie Nintendo wii, some SD only cable channels) the left and right sides are stretching the image at about 5 inches from the bezel on each side. It gives a really dizzying effect especially when panning. Is there something I can switch that I'm clearly not doing?


----------



## Radtech51

Theatredaz said:


> *Sharp's LCD Manufacturing Facilities to prioritize smaller LCD manufacturing.*
> 
> Apple is expected to use newer IGZO (indium gallium zinc oxide) displays in its new products rather than the usual IPS (in-plane switching) panels that have been used so far.
> 
> The first IGZO displays will debut in the upcoming Apple mobile products. For example Apple will use IGZO displays, produced by Sharp in order to upgrade the display resolution of its new tablets to full HD level.
> 
> Sharp has already changed production priorities to meet Apple’s needs by switching production lines from making large size panels to making smaller ones. Sharp’s new Galapagos tablet line up, expected in 2012, will also feature IGZO displays.


Sorry for feeding an off-tipic post but that's very interesting news, I just hope Sharp is the one making the new Apple TV's when they come out late next year (rumor). Just hope Apple goes 55'' + in size, this talk about Apple only making small TV's to start out doesn't sound that impressive. :coocoo:


----------



## DJG

I don't really care what Apple does, I'm much more concerned about the switch in production lines from large size to small. That could affect how well the Elite is supported.


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> I don't really care what Apple does, I'm much more concerned about the switch in production lines from large size to small. That could affect how well the Elite is supported.


I'm going to venture and say the Elite will be supported very well in the future. Apple will have a big influence on Sharp and the direction they will be taking so I believe you should care about what Apple does my friend. Just maybe not here on these forum's since we are getting a-litle off topic. :R


----------



## Theatredaz

* Apple + Sharp = Elite 10th generation panel Apple TV Heaven. :bigsmile:


----------



## Turbe

Theatredaz said:


> * Apple + Sharp = Elite 10th generation panel Apple TV Heaven. :bigsmile:


I'm not sure the Elite's processing sweetness (from the ex-Pioneer Engineers) will be available in any other models besides the Elite branded models going forward for the time being due to the 'Elite' Licensing... this may change at some point


----------



## Theatredaz

Turbe said:


> I'm not sure the Elite's processing sweetness (from the ex-Pioneer Engineers) will be available in any other models besides the Elite branded models going forward for the time being due to the 'Elite' Licensing... this may change at some point


It doesn't matter: Sharps 10th generation facility can produce any panels any time with better precision than other display providers, on a production scale...as seen with the elites.

* IMO Pioneer's technology was only mimicked in the Elite displays> copied seems too similar, since some of the displays technology is not as exact as pioneers was> but the theory works wonderfully.


----------



## Turbe

I was posting about some of the internal processing (software and/or ASIC) unique to the Elite Models, processing that is not available on the other Sharp Models, just the Elite offerings, current and going forward for the next gen or two..


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

DJG said:


> I don't really care what Apple does, I'm much more concerned about the switch in production lines from large size to small. That could affect how well the Elite is supported.


Right, because Sharp can't service multiple clients and execute on multiple product lines at the same time. These are corporations with many business units, not an individual who can only do so many things.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Turbe said:


> I'm not sure the Elite's processing sweetness (from the ex-Pioneer Engineers) will be available in any other models besides the Elite branded models going forward for the time being due to the 'Elite' Licensing... this may change at some point


Apple would bring much better software processing techniques to the table anyway, so there's no need for Pioneer's involvement in anything. Apple made the iPhone 4's camera one of the best in the industry - not through hardware, but software innovation. The same will happen in televisions if the rumors are correct. Maybe Apple can teach Sharp how to solve the pulsing and color issues? LOL!


----------



## Radtech51

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Apple would bring much better software processing techniques to the table anyway, so there's no need for Pioneer's involvement in anything. Apple made the iPhone 4's camera one of the best in the industry - not through hardware, but software innovation. The same will happen in televisions if the rumors are correct. Maybe Apple can teach Sharp how to solve the pulsing and color issues? LOL!


Anything is possible I guess, I happen to have lot's of faith in Apple so we well see what happens. However for the moment I'm very pleased that Apple and Sharp are working together that's a very beautiful thing. :sn:


----------



## Theatredaz

* This doesn't mean an Apple TV is in the future, since sharp will be supplying only small tablet and smaller panels for apple> but...if the price where right, apple could jump into an Apple TV arena and create a decent interactive set. Although at what costs is usually what prevents it from being plausible. How hard would it to be to develope a sharp built set with similar technologies of the Elite at a possibly lower price point due to the smaller panel size etc....rumored " 32-55`models. Which are really just adequate for most living spaces. They definatly have to be thin and wall mountable as well,.

*How about a 55`ipad (type) touch TV with Siri! and Wireless wifi 1080p video steaming from your set-top box to the apple TV! Wouldnt they just need a license to allow the component signal to be broadcast in 1080p over wifi lddude:. If they`r going to venture into somthing like that they might as well do it right. Simple really.


----------



## JClam

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Hope everyone has had a good holiday this past week! I'm assuming no cyan fix yet, correct?
> 
> I'm getting a replacement 70" elite. Hopefully this one will be better!
> 
> Last note, when viewing standard definition content when only available (ie Nintendo wii, some SD only cable channels) the left and right sides are stretching the image at about 5 inches from the bezel on each side. It gives a really dizzying effect especially when panning. Is there something I can switch that I'm clearly not doing?


Mike,
I think you were 70" TV #1, and I don't recall seeing any posts from you with major issues...what happened???
Jim


----------



## cdiez58

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Apple would bring much better software processing techniques to the table anyway, so there's no need for Pioneer's involvement in anything. Apple made the iPhone 4's camera one of the best in the industry - not through hardware, but software innovation. The same will happen in televisions if the rumors are correct. Maybe Apple can teach Sharp how to solve the pulsing and color issues? LOL!


Apple doesn't make or design displays..(.the camera in the iPhone 4s...is made by Sony ..and the software isn't what makes it great. Sony exmor sensor makes it great.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Turbe said:


> I'm not sure the Elite's processing sweetness (from the ex-Pioneer Engineers) will be available in any other models besides the Elite branded models going forward for the time being due to the 'Elite' Licensing... this may change at some point





Turbe said:


> I was posting about some of the internal processing (software and/or ASIC) unique to the Elite Models, processing that is not available on the other Sharp Models, just the Elite offerings, current and going forward for the next gen or two..


100% correct.

-Robert


----------



## treky11

just thought i would post something positive. over the past few weeks a lot of people have been at my house and looked at my TV. Everybody thought it was amazing. People picking up their kids a few times wound up staying for a bit just to watch it. People were asking me where i got it, how much it was and in some cases if they could bring their wives by to see to help convince them to spend to the money ;-)

Not once did someone say that there was a color issue or flickering. I am not suggesting the problem doesn't exist. I don't have flickering and the color issue isn't noticeable to me or anyone that looked at my set.

Just thought I would share something positive. I love this set! and the picture truly is amazing. Hope everyone else is enjoying the holidays and this new TV.

Happy New Year!


----------



## Radtech51

AZREOSpecialist said:


> There used to be a "quad pixel off" option in the pre-release firmware, but the option was removed when the set actually started shipping. There was disagreement over whether the shipping THX mode used the yellow subpixel, which it does. I do not believe this was referring to "precision color", which I would leave on. I would also leave Local Contrast set to on - the image looks a bit washed out without that.
> 
> My new favorite video mode is the standard non-THX Movie mode. Skin tones look more natural to me. Even with the CNET settings I find that THX Movie mode is far too yellow, even with skin tones. I still marvel at how many people prefer the THX mode even though I find the color to be quite inaccurate. Different strokes I suppose!


I found the "precision color" option and enabled it. However I'm uncertain what you are referring to when you mention the "Local Contrast set to on." Are you referring to "Active Contrast"? :scratch: 

CNET settings below mention nothing about any of these features very curious. :sneeky:

----------------

Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD picture settings
by katzmaier - 12/8/11 10:53 AM
Review:
http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/sharp-elite-pro-60x5fd/4505-6482_7-35004013.html

Related products:
Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD

Calibration report using these settings:
http://scr.bi/sEMTgg

Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD in a dim room via the HDMI input at 1080p/24 resolution. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html

--Picture Settings menu

AV MODE: MOVIE THX
Intelligent Variable Contrast: Local Dimming On
OPC: Off
Backlight: +1
Contrast: +32
Brightness: +1
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

--Advanced sub-menu

C.M.S. -Hue
R: 0
Y: +3
G: +4
C: +2
B: -3
M: +3

C.M.S. -Saturation
R: +3
Y: -2
G: -1
C: +1
B: +1
M: 0

C.M.S. -Value
R: +2
Y: +2
G: 0
C: -12
B: +3
M: -2

Color Temp sub-menu:
Color Temp.: [grayed out]

[10 Point Setting Off]
R Gain (LO): +1
G Gain (LO): -5
B Gain (LO): -3
R Gain (HI): +2
G Gain (HI): -4
B Gain (HI): -4

[10 Point Setting On]
Position +1: R Gain +2, G Gain 0, B Gain 0
Position +2: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -3
Position +3: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +4: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -2
Position +5: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -4
Position +6: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -5
Position +7: R Gain -2, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +8: R Gain -1, G Gain -6, B Gain -6
Position +9: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain +5
Position +10: R Gain 0, G Gain 0, B Gain -1

Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
Quad Pixel Plus: Off
Active Contrast: Off
Gamma Adjustment: 0
Film Mode: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Monochrome: Off
Range of OPC: [any]


----------



## DJG

AZREOSpecialist said:


> There used to be a "quad pixel off" option in the pre-release firmware, but the option was removed when the set actually started shipping. .... more stuff removed ....


Actually there seems to be a quad pixel option in the ISF settings - can an ISF calibrator confirm?

Edit:

Never mind - it's the Precision Color Plus thing ...


----------



## Turbe

Radtech51 said:


> I found the "precision color" option and enabled it. However I'm uncertain what you are referring to when you mention the "Local Contrast set to on." Are you referring to "Active Contrast"? :scratch:
> 
> CNET settings below mention nothing about any of these features very curious. :sneeky:
> 
> 
> Quad Pixel Plus: Off





DJG said:


> Actually there seems to be a quad pixel option in the ISF settings - can an ISF calibrator confirm?
> 
> Edit:
> 
> Never mind - it's the Precision Color Plus thing ...


Correct, the confusion lies with Sharp which uses the Quad Pixel Plus Control to adjust Precision Color Plus on the Elite. A few ControlCAL Users have suggested that I change the Control name to match Precision Color Plus which I think I will do in a future build.

If I can get the actual Quad Pixel Control to be disabled (disable the Y Pixel) without causing other issues, I will keep it and add one for Precision Color...


----------



## DJG

Does that actually completely disable the yellow pixel or just enables some algorithm that adjusts it "to produce smooth diagonal line"? If it completely disables it, wouldn't it also affect the image color? Probably the latter I think - the yellow pixel construction seems like a lot of work and expense just so you can optionally "produce smooth diagonal line" :scratchhead: ...


----------



## Turbe

Officially, that controls Precision Color Plus, which as you posted will "produce smooth diagonal line" if enabled. IMO, Precision Color Plus a poor choice of a name for that function/option..

Perhaps I'll get an set of sequences (unofficial of course) working to disable the Y Pixel in ISFccc only without doing so in other AV Modes and/or causing other issues. If this can happen, I'll have a specific and separate Control for that.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Does that actually completely disable the yellow pixel or just enables some algorithm that adjusts it "to produce smooth diagonal line"? If it completely disables it, wouldn't it also affect the image color? Probably the latter I think - the yellow pixel construction seems like a lot of work and expense just so you can optionally "produce smooth diagonal line" :scratchhead: ...


If you disable the yellow pixels, keep in mind you will see a noticeable drop in brightness. This is not to say there isn't enough brightness in these displays to overcome this drop, but just be aware it will occur.


----------



## Ken Ross

treky11 said:


> just thought i would post something positive. over the past few weeks a lot of people have been at my house and looked at my TV. Everybody thought it was amazing. People picking up their kids a few times wound up staying for a bit just to watch it. People were asking me where i got it, how much it was and in some cases if they could bring their wives by to see to help convince them to spend to the money ;-)
> 
> Not once did someone say that there was a color issue or flickering. I am not suggesting the problem doesn't exist. I don't have flickering and the color issue isn't noticeable to me or anyone that looked at my set.
> 
> Just thought I would share something positive. I love this set! and the picture truly is amazing. Hope everyone else is enjoying the holidays and this new TV.
> 
> Happy New Year!


Funny you mention this. My wife & I were away for a few days and had our cat sitter in for an hour or so each day to watch our 2 cats. When we returned, she came over to collect her money. We were watching a movie on the Elite when she came in and when she saw the picture and her draw literally dropped. Her initial impression was we were watching 3D. I told her no, this is just standard 2D even though the set is 3D capable. She sat there utterly mesmerized.

She went on to say she's been in many homes with high-end HDTVs and never saw a picture anything like this. She then asked the standard 'how much was it, where can you buy it, how long have you had it...' questions. 

As she left she said "With a TV like that, you can adopt me any time!".


----------



## Theatredaz

Turbe said:


> Officially, that controls Precision Color Plus, which as you posted will "produce smooth diagonal line" if enabled. IMO, Precision Color Plus a poor choice of a name for that function/option..
> 
> Perhaps I'll get an set of sequences (unofficial of course) working to disable the Y Pixel in ISFccc only without doing so in other AV Modes and/or causing other issues. If this can happen, I'll have a specific and separate Control for that.


* Wouldn't it make sense to just call it Edge enhancement? I'm sure it's a clever marketing gimick> but how well does it technically perform when it is on> is there any software or calibration disk that can see how that function is working?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

@ Radtech

Yes, I meant "Active Contrast" - my Samsung called it "local contrast". I get confused all the time. I keep active contrast and precision color plus enabled at all times.


----------



## Ken Ross

AZREOSpecialist said:


> @ Radtech
> 
> Yes, I meant "Active Contrast" - my Samsung called it "local contrast". I get confused all the time. I keep active contrast and precision color plus enabled at all times.


I generally don't use these 'intelligent' contrast controls. Although they can give the picture added punch at times, I find they can also work against you at other times, crushing some shadow detail.


----------



## DJG

Ken Ross said:


> I generally don't use these 'intelligent' contrast controls. Although they can give the picture added punch at times, I find they can also work against you at other times, crushing some shadow detail.


+1 - Everything goes off except for DirecTV I set NR to Auto ...

BTW, if Precision Color Plus is turned on the one-to-one pixel test in the DVE HD Basics BD looks like you-know-what :rubeyes:

Edit: OOPS! Everything goes off EXCEPT Local Dimming On! Tnanks, Turbe!


----------



## Theatredaz

Ken Ross said:


> I generally don't use these 'intelligent' contrast controls. Although they can give the picture added punch at times, I find they can also work against you at other times, crushing some shadow detail.


I find it also reduces** shadow detail> But local dimming in the advanced setting can allow for better blacks> I set my brightness to -5> then let Local dimming adjust the brightness accordingly, which brings out high contrast areas that where normally darkened by dimming the reduction in brightness controls.


----------



## Turbe

Ken Ross said:


> I generally don't use these 'intelligent' contrast controls. Although they can give the picture added punch at times, I find they can also work against you at other times, crushing some shadow detail.


First, 

Happy New Year!!!

Ken, are you saying you have the *Intelligent Variable Contrast Control* set to *Local Dimming Off* or the *Active Contrast Control* set to *Off* (or both disabled essentially)?

A meter should report elevated Black Levels with the Intelligent Variable Contrast Control set to Local Dimming Off (vs one of the other settings).


----------



## Ken Ross

Turbe said:


> First,
> 
> Happy New Year!!!
> 
> Ken, are you saying you have the *Intelligent Variable Contrast Control* set to *Local Dimming Off* or the *Active Contrast Control* set to *Off* (or both disabled essentially)?
> 
> A meter should report elevated Black Levels with the Intelligent Variable Contrast Control set to Local Dimming Off (vs one of the other settings).


Turbe, in IVC, I have local dimming set to 'on'. I don't use the advanced settings in that section. I also have Active Contrast set to off.


----------



## 26point2

I've had this TV hung on the wall for about 2 months now. Everything is tight, but when I have the TV on for a good period of time (>8 hours for football Sunday) I hear some creaking sounds. I check it for looseness every time I hear it, but everything is still tight...no movement.

Is there something inside that is making this sound when things get warmed up? I know it doesn't throw much heat. 

My heart stops every time I hear it.

Thanks,
Craig


----------



## lcaillo

Probably the different materials in the set expanding at different rates with temperature. I'll ask on the tech forums and see if there have been any patterns of this in these sets that would lead to a particular area.

Which set do you have?


----------



## 26point2

lcaillo said:


> Probably the different materials in the set expanding at different rates with temperature. I'll ask on the tech forums and see if there have been any patterns of this in these sets that would lead to a particular area.
> 
> Which set do you have?


PRO-70X5FD.

Thanks,
Craig


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

I believe you are giving up picture quality by turning off Precision Color Plus. According to Sharp: "The new Elite LCD TV, with its four pixel technology, enables image processing with greater precision. With Precision Color Plus, each sub-pixel can be addressed independently, creating more than 8 million dots on the screen."

It would seem that disabling this feature is going to negatively affect your picture quality. This technology is designed to provide smooth diagonal lines and finer control of the yellow sub-pixels. Failing a test pattern does not mean this is a bad feature - it just means it was designed for actual content, not test patterns. It *is* possible to fail a test pattern yet have positive impacts on image quality.

To each his own.


----------



## cdiez58

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I believe you are giving up picture quality by turning off Precision Color Plus. According to Sharp: "The new Elite LCD TV, with its four pixel technology, enables image processing with greater precision. With Precision Color Plus, each sub-pixel can be addressed independently, creating more than 8 million dots on the screen."
> 
> It would seem that disabling this feature is going to negatively affect your picture quality. This technology is designed to provide smooth diagonal lines and finer control of the yellow sub-pixels. Failing a test pattern does not mean this is a bad feature - it just means it was designed for actual content, not test patterns. It *is* possible to fail a test pattern yet have positive impacts on image quality.
> 
> To each his own.


I agree the TV has only gotten the best reviews of any TV over the last few years...and an LCD to boot!! I think Sharps on a roll with their tech...ask Apple. Ive written about how a yellow pixel can help offset the native blue leds used in backlighting....there are no RGB LCDs out there. they need a 4th color to push through the 3 or (4) color films....


----------



## JimP

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I believe you are giving up picture quality by turning off Precision Color Plus. According to Sharp: "The new Elite LCD TV, with its four pixel technology, enables image processing with greater precision. With Precision Color Plus, each sub-pixel can be addressed independently, creating more than 8 million dots on the screen."
> 
> It would seem that disabling this feature is going to negatively affect your picture quality. This technology is designed to provide smooth diagonal lines and finer control of the yellow sub-pixels. Failing a test pattern does not mean this is a bad feature - it just means it was designed for actual content, not test patterns. It *is* possible to fail a test pattern yet have positive impacts on image quality.
> 
> To each his own.


Very good point.

I sometimes wonder why manufacturers would even put a feature on a display with the ability to turn it off. Either it works or it doesn't work. It may be switchable just for the benefit of calibrators that they don't want to comment that it doesn't pass certain patterns well.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Precision Color Plus gives the TV an additional 5-6 million pixels to work with, so I will give the benefit of the doubt to the technology and let it do its thing.


----------



## Turbe

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Precision Color Plus gives the TV an additional 5-6 million pixels to work with, so I will give the benefit of the doubt to the technology and let it do its thing.


Standard 1080p plasmas have over 6 million sub pixels, Sharp's RGB+Y panels have over 8 million... They do claim to squeeze more sub pixels in the same space. Their own examples of this extra processing (using Precision Color Plus) center on improving edges spanning diagonally when this Control is enabled. 

Sharp:
In traditional RGB TVs, the building blocks of resolution are packets of 3 color pixels, often resulting in a stair-step pattern.

By adding a fourth pixel, in the same space that was occupied by three, we effectively put more dots on the screen and create a finer resolution.

The new Elite LCD TV, with its four pixel technology, enables image processing with greater precision.

With Precision Color Plus, each sub-pixel can be addressed independently, creating more than 8 million dots on the screen.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Turbe said:


> Standard 1080p plasmas have over 6 million sub pixels, Sharp's RGB+Y panels have over 8 million... They do claim to squeeze more sub pixels in the same space. Their own examples of this extra processing (using Precision Color Plus) center on improving edges spanning diagonally when this Control is enabled.
> 
> Sharp:
> In traditional RGB TVs, the building blocks of resolution are packets of 3 color pixels, often resulting in a stair-step pattern.
> 
> By adding a fourth pixel, in the same space that was occupied by three, we effectively put more dots on the screen and create a finer resolution.
> 
> The new Elite LCD TV, with its four pixel technology, enables image processing with greater precision.
> 
> With Precision Color Plus, each sub-pixel can be addressed independently, creating more than 8 million dots on the screen.


All the more reason to keep it on. IMHO we too often allow charts, graphs and test patterns to dictate our settings rather than observation of actual content. For instance, I've read that a sharpness level of 0 or +1 on the Elite will show the minimum amount of edge enhancement on a test pattern, and is therefore the preferred setting, but this results in unacceptably soft images to MY eyes. Bumping sharpness up to +3 makes my HD images look incredibly sharp from my normal viewing distance of 8-10 feet. Granted, doing so might add visible edge enhancement to a test pattern, but it kills on actual content from a typical viewing distance. I think test patterns and calibration is great, but ultimately we should let our eyes be our guides.


----------



## Weaselboy

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Precision Color Plus gives the TV an additional 5-6 million pixels to work with, so I will give the benefit of the doubt to the technology and let it do its thing.


I have been following this discussion the last couple days and as a result this morning I turned on Precision Color Plus on my 60" Elite. With about ten minutes invested in scrutinizing the picture, I can't say I can tell any difference either way.

Are you guys seeing a noticeable improvement in any particular area of picture quality with this on?

I'm using THX Movie mode.


----------



## Theatredaz

* The yellow sub-pixel is mated with the blue-pixel> apparently yellow+blue are one pixel> they just both share the same pixel space as any normal size pixel (Red and green are separate normal size pixels)...if the yellow and blue are one pixel...how can ~ a one pixel unit create a finer diagonal edge? There is no extra yellow sub pixel?

*I've still yet to test this theory< but need some calibration disks to actually see what results are achieved.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Theatredaz said:


> * The yellow sub-pixel is mated with the blue-pixel> apparently yellow+blue are one pixel> they just both share the same pixel space as any normal size pixel (Red and green are separate normal size pixels)...if the yellow and blue are one pixel...how can ~ a one pixel unit create a finer diagonal edge? There is no extra yellow sub pixel?
> 
> *I've still yet to test this theory< but need some calibration disks to actually see what results are achieved.


Where are you getting the information that the yellow subpixel is mated to the blue pixel?


----------



## tomboyter

If you look at the Sharp screen with their magnifying glass that they use with their in-store displays, you will see the extra yellow pixel...not hard to see at all and you will also see blue pixels at the same time. I do not believe that your information that yellow and blue share the same dots can be substantiated. You must look for yourself, however.


----------



## Radtech51

AZREOSpecialist said:


> @ Radtech
> 
> Yes, I meant "Active Contrast" - my Samsung called it "local contrast". I get confused all the time. I keep active contrast and precision color plus enabled at all times.


Thanks for the info, I did notice the picture looks more vibrant less dull as you put it when "local contrast" is On. However I'm concerned I'll be loosing shadow detail if I keep the setting On. As for "Precision color plus" I visually couldn't tell much of a difference with the setting On. Right now I have both enabled but I can't help but think if Kevin were to come over to calibrate my set and see my ELITE with the settings on he's probably turn them Off lol, idk. :R


----------



## Theatredaz

* I believe it as on AVS forum from a rep or technician> They stated the Blue and yellow are one, they only did this for the blue because it mated better with the yellow pixel or something> otherwise the displays pixel density would increase dramatically thus increasing the cost and size for that matter> will look for the post...I assumed the yellow and blue shared the same pixel space dimensionally, with red and green thier own full size pixel dimensions etc.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Sorry, ^^ this is misinformation. Sharp's Elite TVs have 4 sub-pixels. Yellow is a dedicated sub pixel.

-Robert


----------



## rab-byte

Yellow may be controlled with blue in WB??? Maybe


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Thanks for the info, I did notice the picture looks more vibrant less dull as you put it when "local contrast" is On. However I'm concerned I'll be loosing shadow detail if I keep the setting On. As for "Precision color plus" I visually couldn't tell much of a difference with the setting On. Right now I have both enabled but I can't help but think if Kevin were to come over to calibrate my set and see my ELITE with the settings on he's probably turn them Off lol, idk. :R


I've noticed the same thing Rad. I switched Precision Color on & off many times when I first got the set and I could never see any difference at all...and I have a pretty good eye for color.


----------



## rab-byte

Do we have confirmation that the pending color fix will throw existing calibrations out of wack?


----------



## dsskid

Do we have confirmation of an impending color fix?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

rab-byte said:


> Do we have confirmation that the pending color fix will throw existing calibrations out of wack?


What pending color fix are you referring to? You mean the color fix everyone is assuming Sharp will release even though the latest information is "come talk to us at CES regarding this issue"? If there were a fix, we would know about it and it would be readily discussed. Don't get your hopes up - there is going to be no fix.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

^^^ I agree.

If it was simply a f/w fix, Sharp wouldn't make a statement like that. Clearly there is more to this than just a f/w fix. Kind of a bummer, they tout "Elite Advantage customer service", yet we're still waiting close to 4 months for an official statement or a f/w fix.


----------



## jpporter

Hi everyone hope everyone had a good new year. I am new to these forums and a proud owner of a Pioneer 151FD. I've been waiting to jump ship to 3D for quite some time, just hoping that they would release a 3D TV that can come close or match the picture quality of my kuro. To all the Shar Elite owners out there who, by chance, have seen and observed both televisions, would you recommend me finally moving on with life and sell my 151FD in favor of the new Sharp Elites? I mostly game and watch the occasional blu-ray. I'd appreciate any advice.


----------



## Ken Ross

AZREOSpecialist said:


> What pending color fix are you referring to? You mean the color fix everyone is assuming Sharp will release even though the latest information is "come talk to us at CES regarding this issue"? If there were a fix, we would know about it and it would be readily discussed. Don't get your hopes up - there is going to be no fix.


I'm afraid you may be right.


----------



## tomboyter

Youse Guys are all so SIN-A-CULL ... the fix went to the legal department and was determined to be ill eagle. It will be available in the Gray Market very soon, for $19.95 or two for $29.95


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> I've noticed the same thing Rad. I switched Precision Color on & off many times when I first got the set and I could never see any difference at all...and I have a pretty good eye for color.


I agree my friend, Oh have you tried "local contrast" On? If so can you give me your expert opn on what you think of it thx. :bigsmile:


----------



## Radtech51

AZREOSpecialist said:


> What pending color fix are you referring to? You mean the color fix everyone is assuming Sharp will release even though the latest information is "come talk to us at CES regarding this issue"? If there were a fix, we would know about it and it would be readily discussed. Don't get your hopes up - there is going to be no fix.


ld dude: I still haven't given up hope for the fix.

PS: Robert will update us with more info on the 10th like he said, however if this issue doesn't end up being fixed it's definitely something I can live with. To tell you the trough I'd be lying if I said I could even see the cyan color issue, blue's look fine to me. :rubeyes:


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> ld dude: I still haven't given up hope for the fix.
> 
> PS: Robert will update us with more info on the 10th like he said, however if this issue doesn't end up being fixed it's definitely something I can live with. To tell you the trough I'd be lying if I said I could even see the cyan color issue, blue's look fine to me. :rubeyes:


Blues are fine, it's the cyan and purple that's off.


----------



## azaze1

Is there a way to get an IR signal to send an OFF only (not a toggle on/off) ? I'd ask the same of an ON only signal.

I read that there are means of doing this through a LAN using IP commands to the TV, but what about IR for purposes of "activities" or macros of many commands?

I'd like to have my Onkyo remote include a hard off along with putting the receiver, and XPA-3 into standby mode. Likewise ON, but I don't want to have the TV just swapping from on to off if it happens to be in a different state than the receiver & amp.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Radtech51 said:


> ld dude: I still haven't given up hope for the fix.
> 
> PS: Robert will update us with more info on the 10th like he said, however if this issue doesn't end up being fixed it's definitely something I can live with. To tell you the trough I'd be lying if I said I could even see the cyan color issue, blue's look fine to me. :rubeyes:


I totally agree with you. I could care less about this cyan non-issue.


----------



## lynskyn

azaze1 said:


> Is there a way to get an IR signal to send an OFF only (not a toggle on/off) ? I'd ask the same of an ON only signal.
> 
> I read that there are means of doing this through a LAN using IP commands to the TV, but what about IR for purposes of "activities" or macros of many commands?
> 
> I'd like to have my Onkyo remote include a hard off along with putting the receiver, and XPA-3 into standby mode. Likewise ON, but I don't want to have the TV just swapping from on to off if it happens to be in a different state than the receiver & amp.


Yes, but you have to upgrade the firmware on the set to 2.15. This firmware allows the discrete on and off codes (they are the same as the Pioneer Elite 2008 codes) PM Robert and he will help you get the firmware.


----------



## DJG

azaze1 said:


> Is there a way to get an IR signal to send an OFF only (not a toggle on/off) ? I'd ask the same of an ON only signal.
> 
> I read that there are means of doing this through a LAN using IP commands to the TV, but what about IR for purposes of "activities" or macros of many commands?
> 
> I'd like to have my Onkyo remote include a hard off along with putting the receiver, and XPA-3 into standby mode. Likewise ON, but I don't want to have the TV just swapping from on to off if it happens to be in a different state than the receiver & amp.


If you e-mail (not PM) Robert at Value Electronics you can get firmware 2.15 and the power on/off commands will work. I have them on my URC MX-700 and they work great with my system macros.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

FIRMWARE 2.15 IS BETA ONLY - IT HAS NOT BEEN OFFICIALLY RELEASED!

Anyone who installs unsupported, beta firmware on their Elite TVs do so at their own risk. If this bricks your TV, don't expect warranty support from Sharp.


----------



## DJG

Indeed - Robert is very clear on that.


----------



## azaze1

aye, the lure of sneak peaks at fixes is not worth the risk to me. I've grown patient over the years.

I'll wait for the official release, but it's good to know it's out there and nearing release. Thanks all.


----------



## Robert Zohn

AZREOSpecialist said:


> FIRMWARE 2.15 IS BETA ONLY - IT HAS NOT BEEN OFFICIALLY RELEASED!
> 
> Anyone who installs unsupported, beta firmware on their Elite TVs do so at their own risk. If this bricks your TV, don't expect warranty support from Sharp.


This firmware release will likely never be released. Sharp made it on my request and sent me the codes and instructions on how to get the codes installed into Elite TVs. I thoroughly tested this firmware before offering it exclusively to HTS members. 

I have done this upgrade on *hundreds* of Elite TVs and their is absolutely no issues with installing or the operation of the TV in anyway. It is 100% safe and I would not distribute anything that would harm a TV.

All I ask is for you to be a member of HTS and email your request for the codes and instructions on how to install them into your Elite TV.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Worked beautifully for me. Thanks, Robert!


----------



## dnehring

Is there a preferred email for Robert directly or is it via the the email contact info at Value Electronics? I have a 70" Elite and would love the have discrete power on/off. That being said, I didn't purchase it from VE so if this is just a service for his customers, I understand.
Doug


----------



## DJG

Robert is a generous man . I didn't get mine from him either, but he doesn't discriminate. I used his VE e-mail.


----------



## rab-byte

I calibrated another elite today and man I'm still in aw of the blacks on those things... Just thought I'd bring things back around to the positives about this display.


----------



## Widamere

Hey Radtech51, I have a 55" Samsung ATM and am thinking about getting an Elite x5. My question is how far away do you sit in your current set-up?? I am about 10 to 13' depending on which seat ya end up with ), is that too close for a 70". It was Sept. when you got the TV correct? are you still inlove w/ it?

Tnx, Mike


----------



## Ken Ross

Robert Zohn said:


> This firmware release will likely never be released. Sharp made it on my request and sent me the codes and instructions on how to get the codes installed into Elite TVs. I thoroughly tested this firmware before offering it exclusively to HTS members.
> 
> -Robert


Robert, any idea why Sharp wouldn't offer an official release of this when it obviously works for everyone that's needed it? Seems odd.


----------



## lcaillo

The vast majority of users will likely never notice a problem. If they make it a general release they will end up supporting fixes on sets that the users do not perceive to need fixing. 

Hobbyists like us are likely to feel that this is a big deal. You have to remember that Sharp, like others, make money by moving product with as little support cost as possible. Sharp has determined that paying attention to dealers like Robert, and users like us, is a market advantage. That advantage is a niche by comparison to the general market. It is a niche that is very influential, but not everyone reads forums and reviews like we do. Many will buy a set based upon a bit of information gathered here or there that this is a good set, never knowing if it is true nor why.


----------



## Theatredaz

lcaillo said:


> The vast majority of users will likely never notice a problem. If they make it a general release they will end up supporting fixes on sets that the users do not perceive to need fixing.
> 
> Hobbyists like us are likely to feel that this is a big deal. You have to remember that Sharp, like others, make money by moving product with as little support cost as possible. Sharp has determined that paying attention to dealers like Robert, and users like us, is a market advantage. That advantage is a niche by comparison to the general market. It is a niche that is very influential, but not everyone reads forums and reviews like we do. Many will buy a set based upon a bit of information gathered here or there that this is a good set, never knowing if it is true nor why.



I don't understand why it's so difficult to add product support for this type of product> It has to been seen as a NICHE product> as advertised by sharp. The formula works well> although I feel conceirge service for product defects should be the SOLE provider of repairs to the product> in other words my Dealer sends the product back to the US where it gets fitted with new hardware if necessary+ I'm able to communnicate with a trained technical rep that does this for a living day and night> as with DVDO>:yikes:


----------



## DJG

Widamere said:


> Hey Radtech51, I have a 55" Samsung ATM and am thinking about getting an Elite x5. My question is how far away do you sit in your current set-up?? I am about 10 to 13' depending on which seat ya end up with ), is that too close for a 70". It was Sept. when you got the TV correct? are you still inlove w/ it?
> 
> Tnx, Mike


Hi Mike, I'm not Radtech and I'm sure he's happy about that, but I sit less than 10' from my 70" Elite and love it. But then again I used to sit in the 4th row when I used to go to the movies ...


----------



## DJG

lcaillo said:


> The vast majority of users will likely never notice a problem. If they make it a general release they will end up supporting fixes on sets that the users do not perceive to need fixing.
> 
> Hobbyists like us are likely to feel that this is a big deal. You have to remember that Sharp, like others, make money by moving product with as little support cost as possible. Sharp has determined that paying attention to dealers like Robert, and users like us, is a market advantage. That advantage is a niche by comparison to the general market. It is a niche that is very influential, but not everyone reads forums and reviews like we do. Many will buy a set based upon a bit of information gathered here or there that this is a good set, never knowing if it is true nor why.


Frankly this isn't a fix, but correcting what I consider a small if gross oversight. Discrete codes for power are what allows proper control in a home theatre environment where most of these I imagine are heading for. As in "I'm done watching, I'm going to bed - click <everything turns off>". It doesn't take a fancy eyeball to appreciate being able, or not, to do that even if you are hiring somebody to set it up for you.

But I still love my Elite ...


----------



## Widamere

Shackster: LOL, I sit about 2/3 back in theaters....my old eyes cant focus fast enough anymore . It took me quite awhile to get used to the 55 and am worried that 70 may infact be too large. I wish there was a way to get rid of the flashlight effect, I sure like my Samsung. UN55B8000. But the flashlighting is really getting to me, and the more it bugs me the more I see it


----------



## lcaillo

DJG said:


> Frankly this isn't a fix, but correcting what I consider a small if gross oversight. Discrete codes for power are what allows proper control in a home theatre environment where most of these I imagine are heading for. As in "I'm done watching, I'm going to bed - click <everything turns off>". It doesn't take a fancy eyeball to appreciate being able, or not, to do that even if you are hiring somebody to set it up for you.
> 
> But I still love my Elite ...


Sorry, I had not been following closely and thought you were referring to a fix for the color issue. The discrete codes are the same situation, however. Relatively few end users even know what discrete codes are. Most manufacturers make them available but don't widely publicize them, particularly additions to what the set was released with. The people that it affects will almost always ask and look for them.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

lcaillo said:


> The vast majority of users will likely never notice a problem. If they make it a general release they will end up supporting fixes on sets that the users do not perceive to need fixing.
> 
> Hobbyists like us are likely to feel that this is a big deal. You have to remember that Sharp, like others, make money by moving product with as little support cost as possible. Sharp has determined that paying attention to dealers like Robert, and users like us, is a market advantage. That advantage is a niche by comparison to the general market. It is a niche that is very influential, but not everyone reads forums and reviews like we do. Many will buy a set based upon a bit of information gathered here or there that this is a good set, never knowing if it is true nor why.


BUT Sharp has already designed a firmware update to support discrete codes, the work is done and the software is seemingly ready. So why not just release it? Makes little sense to me.


----------



## lcaillo

How would you suggest that they release it?


----------



## Widamere

OK, new to the forum....I see what "shackster" means, sorry DJG. I think I am going to order the 60X5 this coming week, but have a question. If I get the new TV, will all the new firmwear updates already be on it? Getting excited.....not gonna lie


----------



## Robert Zohn

Ken Ross said:


> Robert, any idea why Sharp wouldn't offer an official release of this when it obviously works for everyone that's needed it? Seems odd.


Not sure, but I can tell you I was the first to ask for discrete codes and the engineers responded quickly for me to test the Beta release and after through testing I approved it. I've been distributing them for two months to HTS members.

-Robert



lcaillo said:


> The vast majority of users will likely never notice a problem. If they make it a general release they will end up supporting fixes on sets that the users do not perceive to need fixing.
> 
> Hobbyists like us are likely to feel that this is a big deal. You have to remember that Sharp, like others, make money by moving product with as little support cost as possible. *Sharp has determined that paying attention to dealers like Robert, and users like us, is a market advantage.* That advantage is a niche by comparison to the general market. It is a niche that is very influential, but not everyone reads forums and reviews like we do. Many will buy a set based upon a bit of information gathered here or there that this is a good set, never knowing if it is true nor why.


Very true and this reminds me to bring up my sincerest thanks to the great companies like Sharp, Panasonic and Pioneer who are very proactive in getting fixes and upgrades for their products.

-Robert



lcaillo said:


> Sorry, I had not been following closely and thought you were referring to a fix for the color issue. The discrete codes are the same situation, however. *Relatively few end users even know what discrete codes are. Most manufacturers make them available but don't widely publicize them, particularly additions to what the set was released with. The people that it affects will almost always ask and look for them.*


*

Also true and you only need them when you are integrating a control or programmed remote control system. 

-Robert



AZREOSpecialist said:



BUT Sharp has already designed a firmware update to support discrete codes, the work is done and the software is seemingly ready. So why not just release it? Makes little sense to me.

Click to expand...

Only select users need them and most of the population that would properly use them are a/v professional integrators. If you want the discrete "on" and discrete "off" codes and instructions on how to install them into your Elite TV send me an email and I'll gladly email back.

-Robert 



lcaillo said:



How would you suggest that they release it?

Click to expand...

The only way to get these codes is through a secure Sharp server. After you download the codes they must be installed onto the Elite's operating system. My email covers how to get the codes and install them into the Elite TV.

-Robert*


----------



## DJG

lcaillo said:


> How would you suggest that they release it?


They do have a process for this. If you have auto updates turned on, you'll get it. Even if you don't know the difference between firmware and underwear :rofl2:. If you know what to do and have auto updates off, you can do the manual thinghy too. No muss, no fuss. If you don't care or don't know, no harm, no foul.

Edit: I forgot to mention the obvious, you need to have the internet connection set up of course.


----------



## DJG

Widamere said:


> OK, new to the forum....I see what "shackster" means, sorry DJG. I think I am going to order the 60X5 this coming week, but have a question. If I get the new TV, will all the new firmwear updates already be on it? Getting excited.....not gonna lie


No probs . If they're not, set up the internet connection and turn on auto updates.

I need to remember to use multi-quote ...


----------



## Radtech51

Widamere said:


> Hey Radtech51, I have a 55" Samsung ATM and am thinking about getting an Elite x5. My question is how far away do you sit in your current set-up?? I am about 10 to 13' depending on which seat ya end up with ), is that too close for a 70". It was Sept. when you got the TV correct? are you still inlove w/ it?
> 
> Tnx, Mike


Hi Widamere, Still loving my ELITE beyond words, I was one of the first to get the ELITE when it come out. I currently sit about 8-10 feet away from the ELITE and I feel it's the perfect size for my living room. I could have gotten by with a 60'' probably but I"m very glad I got the 70'' I've never regretted getting the larger display ever. I keep my ELITE in THX Movie picture mode with CNET's settings Color +3 like Ken does and I'm loving it. :sn:


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Hi Widamere, Still loving my ELITE beyond words, I was one of the first to get the ELITE when it come out. I currently sit about 8-10 feet away from the ELITE and I feel it's the perfect size for my living room. I could have gotten by with a 60'' probably but I"m very glad I got the 70'' I've never regretted getting the larger display ever. I keep my ELITE in THX Movie picture mode with CNET's settings Color +3 like Ken does and I'm loving it. :sn:


Yup, makes two of us Rad. I'm really liking CNET's settings.


----------



## Ken Ross

Robert, I'm assuming you're at CES. It would be great to hear what Sharp told you and Kevin about the cyan fix.

Have fun & thanks!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Ken Ross said:


> Robert, I'm assuming you're at CES. It would be great to hear what Sharp told you and Kevin about the cyan fix.
> 
> Have fun & thanks!


Yes I've been in Las Vegas since Saturday, 1/7/12. Caught the flight with David Katzmaier and we had a very nice chat.

I strongly recommend everyone check out my HTS thread and at least read from this post forward till the end of CES, as I am updating information on the press conferences and CES exhibits and my meetings.

The press conferences, CES, and my personal exclusive insider meetings add information and content that will not be available from other sources. Everyone should tweet and post on other forums directing interested parties to HTS's CES thread and my Facebook page. I'm also building a new site with detailed information on the new displays for 2012. This new site will launch in two hours as I am waiting for confirmation on delivery dates for the new TVs.

On the Elite series the brief summary is the current models are the 2012 series, no 80" Elite and no changes in the models, other than the integration of THX's Media Director.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

Thanks Robert. Great info as usual!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thanks Ken, spread the word and check back frequently to find out more as well a my new site.

-Robert


----------



## Spiff69

Robert Zohn said:


> Thanks Ken, spread the word and check back frequently to find out more as well a my new site.
> 
> -Robert


Great info, Robert - thank you! Can you please find out if there are any plans to add discrete ir commands for the av modes (thx movie, elite pure, etc.)? I've asked this question to support but have not gotten a response yet.

Thanks - enjoy Vegas!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Spiff69, and Ken, thanks for the kind words. No plans for discrete modes, but I can plant the seed.

-Robert


----------



## Theatredaz

I had the 70" Elite for a few weeks> and found it was too large sitting at only 9-10 feet away from it...it was impossible to watch some blurays since it displayed the macroblocking effect when you sit to close> I had to move about another 3ft back from the display to actually have it disapear and clear the image up optically> unfortunatly I don't have that much sitting space and had to return the TV> The Best Large set I ever had though...when the 60" set arrived it looked more petit compared to the 70"> but...I love the 60"> and will probably never go with a set larger than 60" since you can't sit so close to it when your gaming or watching SD broadcasts etc> And I enjoy sitting closer to my set anyways. I found the 70" had a darker backlight when there was no image and the lights off> and found the 60" brighter in THX mode> but discovered that user mode is darker than THX mode> but only in a pitch dark room> and I can't even say it that bothersome but definatly noticed the difference.

* I've got 36bit scaler that outputs color at 36Bit and the Elite accepts those signals!> Improves SD images considerablly with a finer image> color processing works well with SD DVD content as well so I leave that on too.


----------



## Spiff69

Robert Zohn said:


> Spiff69, and Ken, thanks for the kind words. No plans for discrete modes, but I can plant the seed.
> 
> -Robert


That would be extremely helpful, thank you. They exist for RS-232 and IP, so here's hoping.

Will check out the new VE site as well!


----------



## trcnet

Radtech51 said:


> Hi Widamere, Still loving my ELITE beyond words, I was one of the first to get the ELITE when it come out. I currently sit about 8-10 feet away from the ELITE and I feel it's the perfect size for my living room. I could have gotten by with a 60'' probably but I"m very glad I got the 70'' I've never regretted getting the larger display ever. I keep my ELITE in THX Movie picture mode with CNET's settings Color +3 like Ken does and I'm loving it. :sn:


I guess that makes three of us that feel sooo lucky to own this set!!! Using CNET's settings also with color set to +3 and with Precision Color Plus on. Ken as good as your settings were the CNET settings have for me taken the PQ to another level!!!

Gee, with reading the post lately on the forums these days about this superlative display one could pass it by and dismiss it without giving it a look. What a shame!!!!

I find it so ironic that the Sharp/Pioneer advertises the RGB+Y and makes this a selling point and how they even mention that adding the yellow pixel enhances colors with blue(s) in particular along with yellow(s) and gold. It is also this feature the calibrators and critics of this panel that has given them pause. In this regard and to a certain degree I have to say I agree somewhat with this view. I thought from the get go that the yellow pixel has an effect on_ all _colors. I've posted this and mentioned it to Robert from VE. I mean why would the engineers add the yellow pixel if it had no effect? Ken's settings and again the CNET settings have gone a long long way to alleviate this concern for me and I now marvel and for the most part am in awe of the color reproduction from the Elite-Pro.

Now for the positives for those who may be considering this set. The contrast of this TV with content being displayed is noticeable superior to any other display. Period! This virtue is not subtle and you don't have to be an expert to notice it. It is plain as day obvious! From inky black blacks to .."I see the light".. whites and everything between this set amazes. Doen't matter bright or dark room in this respect it dazzles!. Something the mighty Kuro or any plasma for that matter can't do and is primarily why for me the Elite-Pro was/is my choice. Motion handling is virtually a non-issue which is saying something for a LCD, as well is blooming, halos, and flash-lighting. Screen uniformity is another virtue that is better than I have seen from other LCD's. Again, viewing angles for a LCD is excellent. This TV pretty much possess all the qualities a plasma lover would want without their downfalls.

I find the the Elite-Pro X5 to be an astounding achievement and that it has pushed the envelope in LCD design. There are many who feel this is currently the most versatile best flat-screen display your money can purchase today. Yes, I am one of them and a big fan!!!

Enjoy,
Tom


----------



## obxdiver

Very good post Tom, and I agree 100%. I hate reading all the negative posts on the various forums about this TV.
I have the 70" Elite with the CNET settings on THX Movie and it is absolutely amazing to watch.
It just flat out shines in every way :sn::sn:


----------



## DYAUS

Theatredaz said:


> I had the 70" Elite for a few weeks> and found it was too large sitting at only 9-10 feet away from it...it was impossible to watch some blurays since it displayed the macroblocking effect when you sit to close> I had to move about another 3ft back from the display to actually have it disapear and clear the image up optically> unfortunatly I don't have that much sitting space and had to return the TV> The Best Large set I ever had though...when the 60" set arrived it looked more petit compared to the 70"> but...I love the 60"> and will probably never go with a set larger than 60" since you can't sit so close to it when your gaming or watching SD broadcasts etc> And I enjoy sitting closer to my set anyways. I found the 70" had a darker backlight when there was no image and the lights off> and found the 60" brighter in THX mode> but discovered that user mode is darker than THX mode> but only in a pitch dark room> and I can't even say it that bothersome but definatly noticed the difference.
> 
> * I've got 36bit scaler that outputs color at 36Bit and the Elite accepts those signals!> Improves SD images considerablly with a finer image> color processing works well with SD DVD content as well so I leave that on too.


I must say I have had my 70X5FD for a little over a month now and sit exactly 8.9 ft away from it and have never once thought for a second that I need be further away. I have actually been very surprised at the fact that I have yet to see any grainy imaging. I also have a Samsung un55b8500 which is in my bedroom and that for example is 10 feet from where I lean my head against my head board and from the things I have seen so far the 2 look very similar when it comes to image. I do agree however that some blu rays are very low quality and display some grainy imaging, but that goes for both of my sets so it seems to me that would be due to the content and not the tv IMHO. I do understand that we all perceive things like certain images differently though, so this is just from what I have seen so far.


----------



## DJG

The biggest problem I currently have with my 70" Elite is that I'm visiting my 90 year-old mom and get to watch a 32" Vizio instead ... sigh! But bless her heart, she's taken enough grief from me over the years so I really shouldn't mind, "shouldn't" being the operative word here ...


----------



## burgersa

AZREOSpecialist said:


> There used to be a "quad pixel off" option in the pre-release firmware, but the option was removed when the set actually started shipping. There was disagreement over whether the shipping THX mode used the yellow subpixel, which it does. I do not believe this was referring to "precision color", which I would leave on. I would also leave Local Contrast set to on - the image looks a bit washed out without that.
> 
> My new favorite video mode is the standard non-THX Movie mode. Skin tones look more natural to me. Even with the CNET settings I find that THX Movie mode is far too yellow, even with skin tones. I still marvel at how many people prefer the THX mode even though I find the color to be quite inaccurate. Different strokes I suppose!


AZREO, CNET omitted a setting in the "Advance Settings", "Color Temp" sub-menu. Try this for a better, less yellow, picture in THX mode: turn "10 Point Settings" to off, then in the drop-down box that currently has "Color Temp" set to "Low", reset "Color Temp" to either "Mid-Low", or "Middle", whichever you may prefer. Then turn "10 Point Settings" back on. You will notice, of course, that "Color Temp" is one again grayed out, but the color on the screen will be much more natural looking.

Before making this change, I preferred "Standard" mode over "THX Movie" for the same reasons you list.

I hope this helps.


----------



## Radtech51

I was wondering if anyone else has been trying out > "local contrast" to (On). I've been playing around with it for a bit and would like to get some other opinions, thanks.


----------



## obxdiver

Radtech51 said:


> I was wondering if anyone else has been trying out > "local contrast" to (On). I've been playing around with it for a bit and would like to get some other opinions, thanks.


Do you mean "Active Contrast"?
I think my menu has that under Advanced
I have set mine to ON but later turned it off because it makes some parts of the image look too dark....to me.


----------



## DJG

I'm also not a fan of Active Contrast. It gives great pop but often at the expense of shadow detail. It's one of those subjective calls. It may also be a good thing in bright environments, which mine is not. As always options are good.


----------



## trcnet

Radtech51 said:


> I was wondering if anyone else has been trying out > "local contrast" to (On). I've been playing around with it for a bit and would like to get some other opinions, thanks.


Hello Radtech,

Like DJG and odxdiver I too find when active contrast is set to 'on' it kills shadow detail in dark scenes.

best,
Tom


----------



## rab-byte

When I was throwing up test patterns on the last elite I did I could see the active contrast trying to keep up. On split grey it took the display a whole second to adjust! I'd say leave active contrast off.


----------



## Radtech51

Ok thanks for the above posts regarding the "Active Contrast".


----------



## rab-byte

Radtech51 said:


> Ok thanks for the above posts regarding the "Active Contrast".


...sorry mixing my terms.


----------



## Ken Ross

obxdiver said:


> Very good post Tom, and I agree 100%. I hate reading all the negative posts on the various forums about this TV.
> I have the 70" Elite with the CNET settings on THX Movie and it is absolutely amazing to watch.
> It just flat out shines in every way :sn::sn:


Yup. Just a note to Tom, I prefer CNET's settings to mine too!


----------



## Robert Zohn

I had a brief meeting with some of the proper execs about the color fix and waiving background issue. Elite says they are still not able to recreate the waving background anomaly, but they are still treating this as an open case and are working on finding content and a Elite TV that will exhibit the issue in their labs.

Regarding the teak and purple color errors, they are working on a fix, but everything they have done to date has not given them the 100% perfect end results they are striving for. I hope to have another meeting before the end of CES with one of the top Elite engineers from Japan and I'll update my findings on HTS later this week.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Robert, although I haven't been able to reproduce the pulsing background thinghy in Dark Night or Let Me In, I can reproduce a large moving high-contrast area anomaly both in Star Wars and Sleepy Hollow directly linked to the local dimming processing, and in THX mode. The resulting glow goes away if it's slowed down or paused. Also it needs to be large enough - similar situations of smaller area do not exhibit the anomaly. I'm not home right now but when I get back Sunday I can provide exact timings. These are the only two anomalies I've been able to find, and I've been looking. They're not super obvious and they could be misconstrued as part of the actual video content, but might be another symptom of the pulsing problem others have seen.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

DJG said:


> Robert, although I haven't been able to reproduce the pulsing background thinghy in Dark Night or Let Me In, I can reproduce a large moving high-contrast area anomaly both in Star Wars and Sleepy Hollow directly linked to the local dimming processing, and in THX mode. The resulting glow goes away if it's slowed down or paused. Also it needs to be large enough - similar situations of smaller area do not exhibit the anomaly. I'm not home right now but when I get back Sunday I can provide exact timings. These are the only two anomalies I've been able to find, and I've been looking. They're not super obvious and they could be misconstrued as part of the actual video content, but might be another symptom of the pulsing problem others have seen.


You have the white glowing issue as well particularly in darker environments? Please give me the timings or describe the scene on Sleepy Hollow since I have it on bluray and I'll check it out. Thanks!


----------



## alin2

Robert Zohn said:


> This firmware release will likely never be released. Sharp made it on my request and sent me the codes and instructions on how to get the codes installed into Elite TVs. I thoroughly tested this firmware before offering it exclusively to HTS members.
> 
> I have done this upgrade on *hundreds* of Elite TVs and their is absolutely no issues with installing or the operation of the TV in anyway. It is 100% safe and I would not distribute anything that would harm a TV.
> 
> All I ask is for you to be a member of HTS and email your request for the codes and instructions on how to install them into your Elite TV.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks so much for beta testing these discrete codes! Should we email you at the "sales" email at the VE website?

Thanks!


----------



## DJG

DJ Mike Fury said:


> You have the white glowing issue as well particularly in darker environments? Please give me the timings or describe the scene on Sleepy Hollow since I have it on bluray and I'll check it out. Thanks!


Look! Another DJ . I don't have access to the BD currently, but I'll post timings as soon as I get back Sunday. IIRC it's a later scene, where Johnny Depp is riding his horse fast through the forest, which is dark but backlit. You can see a vertical white glow around the trees as they quickly pan horizontally.


----------



## Pannus

So there is going to be no new firmware to fix the cyan problem?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

DJG said:


> Robert, although I haven't been able to reproduce the pulsing background thinghy in Dark Night or Let Me In, I can reproduce a large moving high-contrast area anomaly both in Star Wars and Sleepy Hollow directly linked to the local dimming processing, and in THX mode. The resulting glow goes away if it's slowed down or paused. Also it needs to be large enough - similar situations of smaller area do not exhibit the anomaly. I'm not home right now but when I get back Sunday I can provide exact timings. These are the only two anomalies I've been able to find, and I've been looking. They're not super obvious and they could be misconstrued as part of the actual video content, but might be another symptom of the pulsing problem others have seen.


Elite support will ask for a video showing the anomaly. Can you take a video?


----------



## DJG

I don't do video, don't have a video camera. And stills may or not work with this, but I'll give it a shot.


----------



## Radtech51

Pannus said:


> So there is going to be no new firmware to fix the cyan problem?


Robert just said the following regarding the color fix, keep faith. :sn: >


> Regarding the teak and purple color errors, they are working on a fix, but everything they have done to date has not given them the 100% perfect end results they are striving for. I hope to have another meeting before the end of CES with one of the top Elite engineers from Japan and I'll update my findings on HTS later this week.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## tomboyter

Robert,

I would love to hear your comments on the Sharp 945 if you have had the opportunity to see it, and even the LG9600 which is their version of the backlit with local dimming. I am curious what the Elite will have that the 945 will not have, and whether the differences will be reflected in the pricing. TIA


----------



## DJG

From Robert's CES thread - you should check it out:

"They also told me the 945, which is expected in late June or July, 2012 is not designed to compete with the flagship Elite series as it have far less local dimming zones, no IVS, and a lower grade video processor. Of course, no THX verification, no THX mode or ISF modes."


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Robert just said the following regarding the color fix, keep faith. :sn: >


I think at this point we need the cyan fix for no better reason than to keep the clowns on the other forum quiet. 

Seriously though, a fix would be appreciated by many I'm sure.


----------



## Turbe

I know that is a joke,

but if Kevin was actually to post in the other forum in response, would you still post that joke? It's already hard to get Kevin to take time for AVS!

the real "joke" are the posts from those who think they do but don't understand what a proper calibration is and why..

... and no Ken, this is not directed at you at all.. a rant to some post's by a few others!


----------



## Ken Ross

Turbe said:


> I know that is a joke,
> 
> but if Kevin was actually to post in the other forum in response, would you still post that joke? It's already hard to get Kevin to take time for AVS!
> 
> the real "joke" are the posts from those who think they do but don't understand what a proper calibration is and why..
> 
> ... and no Ken, this is not directed at you at all.. a rant to some post's by a few others!


Sure I would Turbe because Kevin knows how much I respect him and he would never do the kind of thing I've seen other posters do. The thing that gets me upset about the 'other forum' is that we have troll after troll after troll on that thread. This has nothing to do with calibrators per se. These guys (the trolls) have zero intention of buying the Elite, could care less about its quality and are there for one reason and one reason only, to take cheap shots at the display. 

The example I gave there is quite valid. Why in God's green Earth would I go to a JVC Front Projector thread and start ranting "There's not enough brightness in these projectors to fill a 200" screen". I can find issues with any consumer display device ever made, but why the hell would I go to a thread for a device I have no interest in only to insult owners and their equipment? Ironically we saw exactly that same behavior years ago when the Kuros came out. 

That part of human nature, and frankly I think it's a dark side of human nature, I'll never understand. Most think it's either governed by jealousy or the desire to defend the equipment they currently have. I think that is true in most cases, but some of these guys are just plain 'not nice'. I'm being kind.


----------



## DJG

Hi Ken, none of my business but remember, those idiots live to get a rise out of people - best sometimes to plain ignore them. But I do know how annoying they can get - I don't always do as I say myself :wits-end:.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> I think at this point we need the cyan fix for no better reason than to keep the clowns on the other forum quiet.
> 
> Seriously though, a fix would be appreciated by many I'm sure.


So True my friend. :coocoo:


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Ken Ross said:


> Sure I would Turbe because Kevin knows how much I respect him and he would never do the kind of thing I've seen other posters do. The thing that gets me upset about the 'other forum' is that we have troll after troll after troll on that thread. This has nothing to do with calibrators per se. These guys (the trolls) have zero intention of buying the Elite, could care less about its quality and are there for one reason and one reason only, to take cheap shots at the display.
> 
> The example I gave there is quite valid. Why in God's green Earth would I go to a JVC Front Projector thread and start ranting "There's not enough brightness in these projectors to fill a 200" screen". I can find issues with any consumer display device ever made, but why the hell would I go to a thread for a device I have no interest in only to insult owners and their equipment? Ironically we saw exactly that same behavior years ago when the Kuros came out.
> 
> That part of human nature, and frankly I think it's a dark side of human nature, I'll never understand. Most think it's either governed by jealousy or the desire to defend the equipment they currently have. I think that is true in most cases, but some of these guys are just plain 'not nice'. I'm being kind.


I love being called "brain dead" by an idiot calibrator who resorts to personal insults when he can't successfully argue his own viewpoint. If I was ever leaning towards getting a professional calibration done, I'm now very much interested in a CalMAN DIY package! That way this "brain dead" person doesn't have to bother said calibrator who only spouts off in order to feel intellectually superior to others (read: little pee-pee).


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Hi Ken, none of my business but remember, those idiots live to get a rise out of people - best sometimes to plain ignore them. But I do know how annoying they can get - I don't always do as I say myself :wits-end:.


You are absolutely correct DJG. But for me (call it my own personal character flaw), I hate to see such a deliberate attempt made to trash such a fine display. My thinking is the poor people coming to a thread for the first time, seeking information, and seeing comments like this. If nobody refutes what's said, these uninformed folks walk away thinking 'Wow, what a display, I'm so glad I didn't waste my money on that thing'. You can't blame them if there's nobody there to respond to the trolls.

But you're right, some of these threads can be very frustrating to read.


----------



## dnehring

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I'm now very much interested in a CalMAN DIY package!


I'm interested in this as well, but I'm in no major rush just because the picture is so good already (to me).
Has anyone else used this with the Elite? Does it automatically "unlock" the isf av modes for you?


----------



## DJG

Well, Ken, misery loves company. And in this particular case I'm very happy to share your pain 

Let's hope Robert appears soon with some good cyan-colored news ... not that I blame him if he wants to take a break!


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Well, Ken, misery loves company. And in this particular case I'm very happy to share your pain
> 
> Let's hope Robert appears soon with some good cyan-colored news ... not that I blame him if he wants to take a break!


That's good DJG, I need someone to share my pain. AZREO's done a good job sharing it with me.


----------



## obxdiver

That calibrator in the "other forum" lost a customer with me as I wrote in the other forum. :nono:
He was being such an arrogant person with his writings


----------



## DJG

There are a few others, not to worry. Kevin Miller and Chad B. come to mind.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

dnehring said:


> I'm interested in this as well, but I'm in no major rush just because the picture is so good already (to me).
> Has anyone else used this with the Elite? Does it automatically "unlock" the isf av modes for you?


CalMAN recently announced that it works seamlessly with the new Sharp Elite display. If I remember correctly, they made a big deal about it. So it would seem like the perfect solution. Yes, it will unlock and handle the ISF modes for you via IP.


----------



## DJG

I didn't get the AutoCal plug-in but did get the Interactive. It does work seamlessly. And as AZREO stated it unlocks the ISF modes. The only caveat about the ISF modes is that you can't tweak them ob the TV set - you can't even see what they are, you can only select the ISF Day or Night modes.

Something like ControlCal lets you manually tweak the ISF settings from a PC.


----------



## Spiff69

DJG said:


> I didn't get the AutoCal plug-in but did get the Interactive. It does work seamlessly. And as AZREO stated it unlocks the ISF modes. The only caveat about the ISF modes is that you can't tweak them ob the TV set - you can't even see what they are, you can only select the ISF Day or Night modes.
> 
> Something like ControlCal lets you manually tweak the ISF settings from a PC.


Can u please give a review and go into detail about how this worked?


----------



## tidesurfer

Hi All,

This is my first post.
I have been reviewing the forum recently as I have purchased an Elite PRO-60X5FD display last November. I am completely digging this display!
I have used the CalMan DIY with AutoCal feature for the Elite and performed both ISF Day and Night calibrations
I am not a professional calibrator, complete novice and this is my first time using such a product.
I connected to the display with IP and attempted to run the AutoCal but in order to use the auto workflow for the Elite Calman requires you use the Panasonic Auto workflow. Also I found you cannot use the Panasonic Auto workflow that comes with the product but need to download the consumer version from their website due to the DIY version not allowing reports in its license.
Anyways I was finally able to run it and if you watched the YouTube video on this it is exactly that.
Now the results seemed fine but I found myself going back to the tweaked THX movie mode as the ISF's created leave on the Film mode with the dreaded the SOE which I cant deal with.

I am not sure if tweaking the display's ISF setting is available in CalMan since I have no in depth experience with it.

Anyway, the the display is awesome and is everything I was looking for.
Thanks for all the info on this site!

TS


----------



## DJG

"Can u please give a review and go into detail about how this worked?"

Some day when I have lots of free time 

But here's the ControlCal link: http://www.controlcal.com


----------



## dnehring

DJG said:


> I didn't get the AutoCal plug-in but did get the Interactive. It does work seamlessly. And as AZREO stated it unlocks the ISF modes. The only caveat about the ISF modes is that you can't tweak them ob the TV set - you can't even see what they are, you can only select the ISF Day or Night modes.
> 
> Something like ControlCal lets you manually tweak the ISF settings from a PC.


Interesting...makes me wonder if all these control options including unlocking isf modes are available via ip control commands. I've built a simple (so far) ip control android app that runs on my phone and kindle fire that controls the tv inputs and av modes. Of course they don't provide the command codes for unlocking the isf modes, just the codes to switch to those av modes, but there are notes in the commands docs that state that those modes are not available useless has been calibrated by an isf-certified technician. I'm InSaneFully so I should be ISF certified


----------



## obxdiver

DJG said:


> "Can u please give a review and go into detail about how this worked?"
> 
> Some day when I have lots of free time


A couple of question on the Calman calibration software.
By looking at the youtube videos, it appears this adjusts all the settings in the Elite automatically while you watch?
So what do I need to buy. Its confusing to look at the price list at the web site.
I see this for $199
CalMAN Home Edition - Software Only
For ColorMunki, Spyder 2, Spyder 3, Display2,
Display LT, DTP-94 and ColorPro II.
$20 Credit towards ControlCAL

Is this what you used?

Or do I need to buy the package that comes with "ControlCal" to do the auto calibration?
And, which meter did you use?


----------



## obxdiver

tidesurfer said:


> Hi All,
> 
> This is my first post.
> I have been reviewing the forum recently as I have purchased an Elite PRO-60X5FD display last November. I am completely digging this display!
> I have used the CalMan DIY with AutoCal feature for the Elite and performed both ISF Day and Night calibrations
> I am not a professional calibrator, complete novice and this is my first time using such a product.
> I connected to the display with IP and attempted to run the AutoCal but in order to use the auto workflow for the Elite Calman requires you use the Panasonic Auto workflow. Also I found you cannot use the Panasonic Auto workflow that comes with the product but need to download the consumer version from their website due to the DIY version not allowing reports in its license.
> Anyways I was finally able to run it and if you watched the YouTube video on this it is exactly that.
> Now the results seemed fine but I found myself going back to the tweaked THX movie mode as the ISF's created leave on the Film mode with the dreaded the SOE which I cant deal with.
> 
> I am not sure if tweaking the display's ISF setting is available in CalMan since I have no in depth experience with it.
> 
> Anyway, the the display is awesome and is everything I was looking for.
> Thanks for all the info on this site!
> 
> TS


What exact package did you buy? I want to get the same thing with the Autocal feature and I also need a meter.
So the PC hooks up to the TV via Ethernet, and the meter connects to USB port on the PC?
Can you give me some more details. 
Thanks.


----------



## tidesurfer

Here's what I used when doing the AutoCal on the Elite:
Calman V4.5 DIY with AutoCal add-on license 
C6 colorimeter

You will need a computer with an HDMI compatible display adapter to display the CalMan window on the Elite
You will also need the same computer to have an ethernet connection to the Elite or same LAN the Elite is connected to.
The C6 or other colorimeter will also connect to the same computer you are using CalMan on.

I hope this is helps.

TS


----------



## obxdiver

tidesurfer said:


> Here's what I used when doing the AutoCal on the Elite:
> Calman V4.5 DIY with AutoCal add-on license
> C6 colorimeter
> 
> You will need a computer with an HDMI compatible display adapter to display the CalMan window on the Elite
> You will also need the same computer to have an ethernet connection to the Elite or same LAN the Elite is connected to.
> The C6 or other colorimeter will also connect to the same computer you are using CalMan on.
> 
> I hope this is helps.
> 
> TS


Perfect. I already meet all of those requirements. Does the meter connect via USB?
And I can't find the "AutoCal" feature add on license thingy


----------



## tidesurfer

Yes, connect the meter to you PC before starting Calman to allow it to load the drivers for the meter
The AutoCal is a license key they should have sent you for your CalMan if you purchased it.
Autocal should be for a Panasonic most likely, it wont say Elite.

TS


----------



## obxdiver

tidesurfer said:


> Yes, connect the meter to you PC before starting Calman to allow it to load the drivers for the meter
> The AutoCal is a license key they should have sent you for your CalMan if you purchased it.
> Autocal should be for a Panasonic most likely, it wont say Elite.
> 
> TS


OK I found it. So $199 for the software, $199 for the AutoCal Add-On, and then one of the supported meters. Your C6 is a very nice one. I don't know if I want to spend that much on the meter.
Are there any good meters that are less expensive?


----------



## tidesurfer

I think new version of the iDisplay they have will work too,YMMV.

TS


----------



## Turbe

The C6 is based off the X-Rite i1Display Pro...

You also have to remember that you need patterns.. what pattern generator are you going to use? If you are going to use AVS709 without the USBIRT, you will be manually switching the Patterns. Even using the USBIRT, it can be cumbersome IMO.

In the video, they are using a Pattern Generator (actually the VideoForge).


----------



## DJG

Tidesurfer, you're calibrating the Elite as a monitor on the PC? Just curious if it's going through the graphics card and if that could affect it.

Turbe, any thoughts on that?

I use the SpectraCal calibration disk for patterns when I don't use the Radiance in the calibration.

I'd been using a Spyder 3 I had for a while to calibrate my PC monitors for photography, but I ordered an i1Display PRO (wonder how Apple let them get away with that name? )


----------



## Turbe

yes and for similar reasons/issues using a PC w/HDMI as a pattern generator.

DJG, I never asked, what are you using for your pattern source? EDIT: oops, your last post  lol


----------



## DJG

I added that while you weren't looking! And yes using a disc for patterns is a pain but not unbearable.


----------



## tidesurfer

I basically followed the steps in the Youtube video that was going around.
When you use the AutoCal for the Elite it performs the 10 point grayscale and automatically generates patterns on your screen. Those patterns were sent to the C6
Took about 3 minutes to complete and created the ISF picture modes


----------



## Turbe

Have you checked verified the output of your graphics card HDMI? In many cases, the levels are off.

In any case, that needs to be checked and verified.


----------



## tidesurfer

Yeah, didnt do that. Was using a MacBook Pro and not too familiar with the settings on a Mac.
Anyway, the main issue I found with the autocal is you cant turn off modes (i.e. Film mode) maybe in one of the more feature enabled/licensed revisions you can, not sure


----------



## DJG

If you turn it off manually before the calibration it should respect it, at least it appears to with the Lumagen and Interactive workflows.

Can you connect the Elite serially or through the network so CalMAN can see it and avoid the video card? I never used AutoCal.


----------



## cleveland plasma

DJG said:


> From Robert's CES thread - you should check it out:
> 
> "They also told me the 945, which is expected in late June or July, 2012 is not designed to compete with the flagship Elite series as it have far less local dimming zones, no IVS, and a lower grade video processor. Of course, no THX verification, no THX mode or ISF modes."


 They did confirm the HDR chip will be in the 945, we will have to see how they compare to each other when they hit the streets. 

Just to repost what some may know, Sharp will win either way as they bought 14.7% of Pioneer about 5 years ago making them the leading Share holder of Pioneer. They have been making the final transitions of takeover in the last year since they own Pioneer.


----------



## Spiff69

Thank you all for the excellent info! I'd love to hear more. So, I guess this is about a $600 proposition with the i1display pro? Bummer that you can't tweak the autocal. That doesn't seem right.


----------



## PorTony

cleveland plasma said:


> They did confirm the HDR chip will be in the 945, we will have to see how they compare to each other when they hit the streets.
> 
> Just to repost what some may know, Sharp will win either way as they bought 14.7% of Pioneer about 5 years ago making them the leading Share holder of Pioneer. They have been making the final transitions of takeover in the last year since they own Pioneer.


Hello,
I apologize for my ignorance but what is the acronym 'HDR' :scratch:?

Thank you,
Tony


----------



## g997

Hi there 

New to forum, just installed a Elite 70, wall mounted.

Looking forward to a great experience with it and learning from all of you

Regards

Gj


----------



## Turbe

Spiff69 said:


> Thank you all for the excellent info! I'd love to hear more. So, I guess this is about a $600 proposition with the i1display pro? Bummer that you can't tweak the autocal. That doesn't seem right.


Well, that still does not include a pattern generator and pattern generator addon which would bring it up to well over $1000. You could buy a USBUIRT and have the BR Player with AVS709 pattern disc controlled, but that's not a smooth setup. The Software could also just prompt you to switch the pattern from AVS709

Unfortunately, it's just not that easy to use a PC as your pattern generator, there are many variables and in most cases it's wrong. You have to compare your PC Output with a Reference External Pattern Generator to see if your PC output is accurate. Any calibration done using a PC as a generator without having it's output check must be questioned and most likely the calibration is not correct.

IMO, why not take the time to learn to calibrate.... manually using patterns off AVS709 is a good start..


----------



## g997

OK

So some questions and observations:

It seems like it takes a few minutes after turn on for the colors to settle in. Is that normal?

The reflection off the glass with the set turned off isn't as perfect as my previous 5 year old set. I know the old set has thicker glass and the frame is much more substantial. Is this normal?


----------



## DJG

I'm not sure what you mean by the reflection not being perfect, unless you mean there's some texture which would be normal. I'm out of town so I can't actually look .


----------



## DJG

Turbe said:


> ...
> 
> IMO, why not take the time to learn to calibrate.... manually using patterns off AVS709 is a good start..


That's what I do to calibrate on the Elite itself rather than through the Lumagen. It takes time but has its own rewards in getting to learn what calibration is all about and what it actually does. You can download a nice calibration disc image (AVCHD) from the SpectraCal site:

http://store.spectracal.com/drivers-and-resources


----------



## Turbe

I believe that is a version of AVSHD709 with the patterns only for CalMAN.. I also believe it's based from the older v1.2 of AVSHD709 which may be a good thing... There were some changes in AVSHD709 v2 which may not be for the best.


----------



## g997

The fireplace which is behind me and goes to ceiling is slanted to one side in the reflection..


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

g997 said:


> The fireplace which is behind me and goes to ceiling is slanted to one side in the reflection..


Are you paying more attention to the TV or the reflections? No glass surface is perfect, especially those on TVs, so reflections will be skewed and distorted. This has no effect on the TV picture. I'm confused as to why this is an issue. ???


----------



## DJG

Turbe said:


> I believe that is a version of AVSHD709 with the patterns only for CalMAN.. I also believe it's based from the older v1.2 of AVSHD709 which may be a good thing... There were some changes in AVSHD709 v2 which may not be for the best.


They ARE using CalMAN  At least that's the software in their list. But the patterns look general enough to my rather limited view.

Turbe, can you point me to a download link for the newer disc image? I'd like to check it out. What in your estimation is a step back in the newer version?


----------



## Turbe

DJG said:


> Turbe, can you point me to a download link for the newer disc image? I'd like to check it out. What in your estimation is a step back in the newer version?


Here you go 

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496


----------



## DJG

g997 said:


> The fireplace which is behind me and goes to ceiling is slanted to one side in the reflection..


Hmmm, ever watch Videodrome? :scared: :yikes:

When I ordered the DVD many years ago upon opening the shipping box I sighed - I couldn't believe they had sent me the VHS! And a used one at that! :hissyfit: A few minutes later I realized I'd been had and that was the actual purpose-full DVD packaging. Down to the Videodrome name scribbled in magic marker on the spine of the simulated VHS box. That was hilarious!

I would ignore the reflections myself, unless they start coming out of the TV that is, in which case I'd run like hell.


----------



## DJG

Turbe said:


> Here you go
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948496


Danke! You the man!


----------



## g997

DJG said:


> Hmmm, ever watch Videodrome? :scared: :yikes:
> 
> When I ordered the DVD many years ago upon opening the shipping box I sighed - I couldn't believe they had sent me the VHS! And a used one at that! :hissyfit: A few minutes later I realized I'd been had and that was the actual purpose-full DVD packaging. Down to the Videodrome name scribbled in magic marker on the spine of the simulated VHS box. That was hilarious!
> 
> I would ignore the reflections myself, unless they start coming out of the TV that is, in which case I'd run like hell.



!!!!


----------



## g997

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Are you paying more attention to the TV or the reflections? No glass surface is perfect, especially those on TVs, so reflections will be skewed and distorted. This has no effect on the TV picture. I'm confused as to why this is an issue. ???



It was always perfect on my previous flat tv.

Not an issue per say just curious

BTW like reading your posts


----------



## DJG

g997 said:


> !!!!


:R Videodrome :R


----------



## Widamere

OK, placed the order today!!!!! The 60x5 will be mine!!!!!!!!! Question I have is is there anyone w/ the 60" version that are football fans?.....and what settings are you using for live action as opposed to movies? I had bought the Sony 60NX720 because it was floor model for $1680+tax and they said it was 240Hz....figuered why not, cheap, and bigger than my UN55B8000. Man was I wrong....the old TV was soooo much better even my wife noticed!!!!!!!!!!! Fortunatly they didnt have much issue taking it back and I ordered the Elite!!!!!!! 4050+tax :sn: I am bouncing off the walls here!!!!!!!!!! cant wait!!!!!!


----------



## Radtech51

Widamere said:


> OK, placed the order today!!!!! The 60x5 will be mine!!!!!!!!! Question I have is is there anyone w/ the 60" version that are football fans?.....and what settings are you using for live action as opposed to movies? I had bought the Sony 60NX720 because it was floor model for $1680+tax and they said it was 240Hz....figuered why not, cheap, and bigger than my UN55B8000. Man was I wrong....the old TV was soooo much better even my wife noticed!!!!!!!!!!! Fortunatly they didnt have much issue taking it back and I ordered the Elite!!!!!!! 4050+tax :sn: I am bouncing off the walls here!!!!!!!!!! cant wait!!!!!!


I'd suggest starting with the CNET settings, but with the Color at +3 not 0. 

--Picture Settings menu

AV MODE: MOVIE THX
Intelligent Variable Contrast: Local Dimming On
OPC: Off
Backlight: +1
Contrast: +32
Brightness: +1
Color: 0
Tint: 0
Sharpness: 0

--Advanced sub-menu

C.M.S. -Hue
R: 0
Y: +3
G: +4
C: +2
B: -3
M: +3

C.M.S. -Saturation
R: +3
Y: -2
G: -1
C: +1
B: +1
M: 0

C.M.S. -Value
R: +2
Y: +2
G: 0
C: -12
B: +3
M: -2

Color Temp sub-menu:
Color Temp.: [grayed out]

[10 Point Setting Off]
R Gain (LO): +1
G Gain (LO): -5
B Gain (LO): -3
R Gain (HI): +2
G Gain (HI): -4
B Gain (HI): -4

[10 Point Setting On]
Position +1: R Gain +2, G Gain 0, B Gain 0
Position +2: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -3
Position +3: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +4: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -2
Position +5: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -4
Position +6: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -5
Position +7: R Gain -2, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
Position +8: R Gain -1, G Gain -6, B Gain -6
Position +9: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain +5
Position +10: R Gain 0, G Gain 0, B Gain -1

Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
Quad Pixel Plus: Off < We think he means "Precision Color Plus"
Active Contrast: Off
Gamma Adjustment: 0
Film Mode: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: Off
Monochrome: Off
Range of OPC: [any]


----------



## Widamere

Thanks Rad!!!!!!!! I really CONNOT WAITTTT for this to come in!!!!!!!!!


----------



## cjakutowicz

Widamere said:


> Thanks Rad!!!!!!!! I really CONNOT WAITTTT for this to come in!!!!!!!!!


May I ask where you purchased this set from? I am looking to pull the trigger on a 60" within the next 1-2 months and I am investigating all avenues.


----------



## DJG

Widamere said:


> OK, placed the order today!!!!! The 60x5 will be mine!!!!!!!!! Question I have is is there anyone w/ the 60" version that are football fans?.....and what settings are you using for live action as opposed to movies? I had bought the Sony 60NX720 because it was floor model for $1680+tax and they said it was 240Hz....figuered why not, cheap, and bigger than my UN55B8000. Man was I wrong....the old TV was soooo much better even my wife noticed!!!!!!!!!!! Fortunatly they didnt have much issue taking it back and I ordered the Elite!!!!!!! 4050+tax :sn: I am bouncing off the walls here!!!!!!!!!! cant wait!!!!!!


Many happy viewings, Widamere! May you enjoy it at least as much as I do mine, and that's a whole bunch! :T:T:T:T


----------



## DJG

cjakutowicz said:


> May I ask where you purchased this set from? I am looking to pull the trigger on a 60" within the next 1-2 months and I am investigating all avenues.


You should definitely put Cleveland Plasma (don't let the name fool you, they do LED / LCD too!, where I got mine) and Value Electronics in your list.


----------



## Widamere

Edit and an apology.....I paid 4500+tax, not 4050.....transposed the number there sorry about that. Still feel its a great priceand cant wait to get it!!!!!!!


----------



## trcnet

Congratulations Widamere!!!

I also bought the 60" Elite and was coming from a Sony 55"-XBR8 which is/was no slouch. The Elite has noticeable superior contrast. As Rad suggested the Cnet settings with color at +3 are IMO fantastic!

Hope you get as much enjoyment watching it as I do mine.

best,
Tom


----------



## g997

Radtech51 said:


> I'd suggest starting with the CNET settings, but with the Color at +3 not 0.
> 
> --Picture Settings menu
> 
> AV MODE: MOVIE THX
> Intelligent Variable Contrast: Local Dimming On
> OPC: Off
> Backlight: +1
> Contrast: +32
> Brightness: +1
> Color: 0
> Tint: 0
> Sharpness: 0
> 
> --Advanced sub-menu
> 
> C.M.S. -Hue
> R: 0
> Y: +3
> G: +4
> C: +2
> B: -3
> M: +3
> 
> C.M.S. -Saturation
> R: +3
> Y: -2
> G: -1
> C: +1
> B: +1
> M: 0
> 
> C.M.S. -Value
> R: +2
> Y: +2
> G: 0
> C: -12
> B: +3
> M: -2
> 
> Color Temp sub-menu:
> Color Temp.: [grayed out]
> 
> [10 Point Setting Off]
> R Gain (LO): +1
> G Gain (LO): -5
> B Gain (LO): -3
> R Gain (HI): +2
> G Gain (HI): -4
> B Gain (HI): -4
> 
> [10 Point Setting On]
> Position +1: R Gain +2, G Gain 0, B Gain 0
> Position +2: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -3
> Position +3: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
> Position +4: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -2
> Position +5: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -4
> Position +6: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -5
> Position +7: R Gain -2, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
> Position +8: R Gain -1, G Gain -6, B Gain -6
> Position +9: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain +5
> Position +10: R Gain 0, G Gain 0, B Gain -1
> 
> Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
> Quad Pixel Plus: Off < We think he means "Precision Color Plus"
> Active Contrast: Off
> Gamma Adjustment: 0
> Film Mode: Off
> Digital Noise Reduction: Off
> Monochrome: Off
> Range of OPC: [any]


These settings look too yellow on my set
Changing color temp to med low makes it look too blue.....

Struggling to find a good setting....


----------



## Widamere

Hey g997, once you get 'er all dialed in post your settings :T


----------



## rab-byte

g997 said:


> These settings look too yellow on my set
> Changing color temp to med low makes it look too blue.....
> 
> Struggling to find a good setting....


You could always have it calibrated. Or invest in DIY materials. 

That said. If you keep warm as your color temp the just nudge up blue in white balance you may get the results you're looking for. That and dial down yellow saturation.


----------



## DJG

g997 said:


> These settings look too yellow on my set
> Changing color temp to med low makes it look too blue.....
> 
> Struggling to find a good setting....


That's the problem with posted settings - they may look great on some sets, but every set has it's own deviations. I found for me the important first settings are Backlight, Brightness, Contrast and Temperature. I then play with the Gamma. Get those dialed using a calibration DVD and you're in the ballpark playing ball. I also try complementary combinations of Brightness / Backlight / Gamma.

And I'm back home, playing with my Elite!


----------



## jmf67

cjakutowicz said:


> May I ask where you purchased this set from? I am looking to pull the trigger on a 60" within the next 1-2 months and I am investigating all avenues.


My votes for Value Electronics. I bought my elite 70, elite receiver, elite dvd and other accessories from Robert at Value. One of the most reputable person / company I have done business with on any front. I can't say enough positive things about Value Electronics. Big, big, BIG fan.

I bought this set to replace from my pioneer elite. I wanted a bigger set for a while, but wouldn't sacrifice on picture quality. I was ecstatic when I heard about the 70" elite. I recieved mine in mid Septmeber and I have not looked back since. I fall in love with it more and more every day.

Tomorrow Kevin Miller will be calibrating my elite. I can't wait to see what he can do to something that is so close to perfect.


----------



## The Executor

So was the Cyan Color fix a lie? CES is over and Sharp has not released anything. I admit the issue is minor but I still feel cheated when a company representative states that it would be fixed promptly and nothing else is forthcoming. The Elite is an amazing set, but I'll be reluctant to believe anything sharp says in the future if they don't make good on their word. Also for anyone considering this set, Value Electronics is the place to go. Amazing above and beyond customer service.


----------



## DJG

Seeing as Robert hasn't posted either way yet I'm being cautiously optimistic


----------



## Clemdog

I'm guessing that the reason we're hearing nothing from Robert is because he has nothing to tell... I'm assuming Sharp flaked.


----------



## Theatredaz

* Sharp said they would reveal a firmware solution to the color problem during the week of CES> Maybe he has an update on the fix.


----------



## trcnet

In case you missed it this is the latest news we have from Robert regarding any color fix.

best,
Tom

Regarding the teak and purple color errors, they are working on a fix, but everything they have done to date has not given them the 100% perfect end results they are striving for. I hope to have another meeting before the end of CES with one of the top Elite engineers from Japan and I'll update my findings on HTS later this week.

-Robert[/QUOTE]


----------



## Radtech51

Clemdog said:


> I'm guessing that the reason we're hearing nothing from Robert is because he has nothing to tell... I'm assuming Sharp flaked.





The Executor said:


> So was the Cyan Color fix a lie? CES is over and Sharp has not released anything. I admit the issue is minor but I still feel cheated when a company representative states that it would be fixed promptly and nothing else is forthcoming. The Elite is an amazing set, but I'll be reluctant to believe anything sharp says in the future if they don't make good on their word. Also for anyone considering this set, Value Electronics is the place to go. Amazing above and beyond customer service.


You two might have missed Robert's latest post so here it is below, they are still working on it so please don't loose faith so quickly these things take time my friends. :whistling:



Robert Zohn said:


> Here's the update regarding two Elite firmware updates we're looking for.
> 
> First regarding the color fix, the word is _"they are working on this and it's taking far longer than expected"_. So believe it or not, that's all I can get from Sharp at this time.
> 
> Some small good news on the pulsing backgrounds issue is that I now have a channel to submit reproducible content and or up to actual sample X5FD TVs so the engineers can see the video processing problem. And I will continue to pursue fixes and give updates on this thread.
> 
> I have a huge amount of information as well as my personal predictions for the 2012 lines, but this red-eye travel has become more difficult with my natural life progression so I came back to full speed a little more slowly.
> 
> Anyway look out for more updates on this and my other news coming very soon.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## jmf67

I just want to give a shout out to Kevin Miller for the killer job he did calibrating my 70" elite this past Sunday. I've had the tv since September and I thought the picuture was perfect. Now that's it's calibrated, it's way more perfect. Thanks Kevin!!


----------



## Radtech51

jmf67 said:


> I just want to give a shout out to Kevin Miller for the killer job he did calibrating my 70" elite this past Sunday. I've had the tv since September and I thought the picuture was perfect. Now that's it's calibrated, it's way more perfect. Thanks Kevin!!


+1 :sn:


----------



## cleveland plasma

mechman said:


> For anyone wondering, Pioneer licensed the 'Elite' tag to Sharp for high end flat panel


 Thats correct but Sharp owns 14.7% of Pioneer's stock which makes them the # 1 shareholder so they licensed the name to themselfs


----------



## Widamere

Hey Radtech51, are you in So. Cal.??


----------



## treky11

trcnet said:


> In case you missed it this is the latest news we have from Robert regarding any color fix.
> 
> best,
> Tom
> 
> Regarding the teak and purple color errors, they are working on a fix, but everything they have done to date has not given them the 100% perfect end results they are striving for. I hope to have another meeting before the end of CES with one of the top Elite engineers from Japan and I'll update my findings on HTS later this week.
> 
> -Robert


[/QUOTE]


Well, I would prefer that they released what they have now if its better. Waiting for something to 100% perfect sounds like we might we waiting a long, long, long time. I think we have been waiting pretty long already since the original comments last fall were a couple of week for a fix. 

I have been waiting on having my calibration done but am beginning to wonder if its worth the wait.



Robert, when I bought my set from it included calibration, does it matter when I have it calibrated?


----------



## Radtech51

Widamere said:


> Hey Radtech51, are you in So. Cal.??


Yea the land of sunshine. :sn:


----------



## Widamere

Radtech51: Did you calibrate your TV or was it done by someone else? I may look into having it proffesionally done.


----------



## Radtech51

Widamere said:


> Radtech51: Did you calibrate your TV or was it done by someone else? I may look into having it proffesionally done.


I'm currently using the CNET settings, with Color +3 like Ken does. I'll be getting my ELITE calibrated by Kevin Miller next time he's down in LA. :T


----------



## DJG

Radtech51 said:


> Yea the land of sunshine. :sn:


I hope not orange sunshine - that stuff makes EVERYTHING look cyanish ... :yikes:


----------



## obxdiver

treky11 said:


> Well, I would prefer that they released what they have now if its better.


Not Me. I don't any beta software in my TV


----------



## DJG

Me on the other hand am a willing and cheery volunteer .


----------



## Widamere

Have any of you heard of the Sharp LC-70LE945U coming out this year? What do you think its gonna look like :dontknow:


----------



## DJG

I believe Robert had some info about it in the CES thread.


----------



## rab-byte

Widamere said:


> Have any of you heard of the Sharp LC-70LE945U coming out this year? What do you think its gonna look like :dontknow:


He said it has less LD zones then the elite and I believe a lower end processor.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct, 16 zones vs. over 400 local dimming zones for the Elite TV. The internal vp is from the LE735 so no IVS.

Also the Elite TV has all hand picked panels that are the top 2% of the production and a 2 year 3 month warranty..

-Robert


----------



## Widamere

Found out today that a shipment is headed to the store!!!!!!!! I may have my Elite by 2/3/12!!!!!!!!!!!!!:T


----------



## DJG

Congratulations! Enjoy many happy viewings!


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Robert Zohn said:


> Correct, 16 zones vs. over 400 local dimming zones for the Elite TV. The internal vp is from the LE735 so no IVS.
> 
> Also the Elite TV has all hand picked panels that are the top 2% of the production and a 2 year 3 month warranty..
> 
> -Robert


Hi Robert, were you able to get any additional updates from Sharp on the cyan/background fix? There seems to be a lot of backpedaling by Sharp with regard to the firmware update that was promised three months ago. Thanks.


----------



## Robert Zohn

I did report ^^ a few days ago on HTS the results of my last meeting at CES; briefly they have been working on the color fix, but it's taking more time than they expected. Although I do agree this has gone on too long, Sharp has been proactive on this and in fact, I have another meeting at my store this Monday, 1/23/12. A few top management execs are attending, one gentleman is from Japan's Elite engineering team who is in the US as the liaison to headquarters' engineering. 

On my Sharp Elite meeting agenda is the color fix and the local dimming waving backgrounds in all modes other than the THX Movie mode. I set my store demo HR34 to record NCSI so I can demonstrate the anomaly. Stubbornly, I have been exclusively watching a calibrated THX Movie mode and have not seen the waving background on any of my three Elite TVs.

I could say more, but then I'd have to track everyone down who reads this and silence them. jk.

Stay tuned for more......

-Robert


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Thanks Robert! I'm assuming Kevin Miller is going to be there? I read on another forum Kevin is on saying he's meeting with Sharp execs next week to show them the issue again since they still don't seem the anomalies.


----------



## Weaselboy

Thanks for staying on this issue for us Robert.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Yes, Kevin is attending the meeting. We have prepared a full and very detailed engineering report that show them exactly where the color accuracy goes off the charts. And we're doing the demo on our shoot-out wall so we can demonstrate generated test patterns, the rec. 709 gelatin filter test and we'll run actual content across the shoot-out wall that best demonstrates the color inaccuracy in teal, green and purple.

I am also working hard to recreate the pulsing of the local dimming issue as I have that on my agenda for the engineering meeting. I'm also bring up a personal issue I have, when calibrating the ISF mode IVS must be off.

My do not give up personal style forces the good companies to fix bugs and defects. And to me the test of a truly a great company is how they address and fix defects and continue to enhance their products through upgrades.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Robert, thank you VERY much for all your efforts - they are well appreciated.

If it helps there's a very reproduceable LD anomally that creates a bright greenish light around a fast-moving high-contrast area which may be another symptom. I posted it and hopefully it can give you some more ammo, as the more examples one has the easier it becomes to find a solution.

Good luck at the meeting!


----------



## dnehring

Thanks for the update Robert. Any chance you can also press for information on discrete remote code support in a future official firmware release?
Doug


----------



## DJG

Robert, I just remembered something. When I originally tried to set up the wireless LAN the interface would not let me enter my full key, which admitedly is long but obviously within the WPA2 standard, so I was forced to use the wired LAN. They should allow for the WPA2 standard's full key length.

Cheers!

EDIT: I'm an idiot! I just revisited it and I was entering the WPA2 pass code where the SSID goes - yes, after building my own OC'ed workstation and designing dozens of software systems I am faced with this embarrassment lddude::unbelievable::hide: ...


----------



## cdiez58

DJG said:


> Robert, I just remembered something. When I originally tried to set up the wireless LAN the interface would not let me enter my full key, which admitedly is long but obviously within the WPA2 standard, so I was forced to use the wired LAN. They should allow for the WPA2 standard's full key length.
> 
> Cheers!


Just enter your pass code....not full #


----------



## DJG

cdiez58 said:


> Just enter your pass code....not full #


I have a long pass code - it's called security . I also use MAC filtering. But the problem is the long pass code.


----------



## Ken Ross

I'll add my thanks to Robert too. We appreciate that 'bulldog' in you :devil:!


----------



## DJG

Robert, please disregard my wireless complaint - I'm an idiot! I just revisited it and I was entering the WPA2 pass code where the SSID goes - yes, after building my own OC'ed workstation and designing dozens of software systems I am faced with this embarrassment. Senility is a horrible thing lddude: :unbelievable: :hide: ...


----------



## alin2

I would also like to add my thanks to Robert for continuing to advocate on Sharp Elite owners' behalf!


----------



## tidesurfer

Hi Robert,

I am a new member with the Elite 60"
Thank you so much for your enduring efforts
BTW, I use THX mode and never see any of the issues noted 
This is my first LED display, one of the things I do notice is that on bright scenes for example when someone is inside and has a window with daylight coming through the daylight seems to have a glare, not sure if anyone else experiences this.

TS


----------



## jmschnur

Is there an iPad wifi app that will work as a remote for this set?


----------



## Weaselboy

jmschnur said:


> Is there an iPad wifi app that will work as a remote for this set?


Something like the Logitech Harmony Link would do that for you. Have not used it myself though.


----------



## trcnet

tidesurfer said:


> Hi Robert,
> 
> I am a new member with the Elite 60"
> Thank you so much for your enduring efforts
> BTW, I use THX mode and never see any of the issues noted
> This is my first LED display, one of the things I do notice is that on bright scenes for example when someone is inside and has a window with daylight coming through the daylight seems to have a glare, not sure if anyone else experiences this.
> 
> TS


Congratulations on what many feel is the best TV one can buy today!

What mode and what settings are you using? For me I found that IVC needs to be on 'local dimming on'. Setting IVC to anything higher could cause what you are seeing IMO. Good luck finding settings that you enjoy.

best,
Tom


----------



## JClam

jmschnur said:


> Is there an iPad wifi app that will work as a remote for this set?


I use iRule on my iPad (and iPhone) to control most of my gear including my 70X5FD over wifi using IP commands. I also use iRule plus an Itach IP2IR to use wifi and IR to control the the rest of my gear that isn't IP controllable. 

Highly customize-able and flawless execution. You can read more at http://www.iruleathome.com/ and there is a very helpful group on an iRule thread at AVS.

Jim


----------



## treky11

Quote:
treky11 wrote: View Post
Well, I would prefer that they released what they have now if its better.
Not Me. I don't any beta software in my TV




obxdiver said:


> Not Me. I don't any beta software in my TV


If its better than what you have now why wouldn't you want it? Its not beta if its approved and released. If your classification of beta = color not accurate then you already have beta software on your TV.

I would like to see any attempt at progress / improvement.


----------



## treky11

Robert, when I bought my set from you a couple months ago it included calibration, does it matter when I have it calibrated?

(trying to wait for the color fix)


----------



## wizziwig

Robert Zohn said:


> I am also working hard to recreate the pulsing of the local dimming issue as I have that on my agenda for the engineering meeting.
> -Robert


Hi Robert,

If you can't find good test material for the pulsing issue, you can use the test patterns I uploaded a couple months ago. You can just put these files on a USB flash drive and plug right into the back of the Elite.

Here they are again:


Code:


http://www.mediafire.com/file/y5uwn9b8vs7yca3/american_flicker.mkv
(Scene is from Blu-Ray: The American. Look at the wall behind George Clooney)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/o8w4gk9taoc8a7w/soaps_flicker.mpg
(Some soap opera that happened to be running.  Same thing, look at the wall behind characters)

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2mjncg3k84b52cl/EliteFlicker_In_Pure_Boardwalk Empire S02E01.mpg
(HBO's Boardwalk Empire Season 2, Episode 1.  Look at the sky in Elite Pure mode.)

The scene from "The American" is probably your best bet. I was able to clearly see the background flicker on 5 out of 5 Elite sets I have tested. Start with Elite Pure to identify the worst flicker. Then try THX to see if it helps reduce it. Finally run with "local dimming off" to see how these scenes look on other TV's without the flicker.

-Mark


----------



## obxdiver

Hey mark
Hey, I just downloaded the american_flicker.mkv and played it on my PC. From 32 to 37 seconds, there is flicker in the source.
Look again....I can see it on my computer monitor. So, if it can be seen on my computer monitor, I am sure it show on the Elite.


----------



## obxdiver

EDIT: I see the flickering and brightness fluctuation on my computer monitor on the Soap Opera MKV.


----------



## mechman

I only noted any flickering in the Boardwalk Empire clip on my laptop.


----------



## wizziwig

Do your PC monitors have some kind of dynamic contrast feature? Maybe we're just talking about something else. I'm talking about the background brightness flickering as if lit by a candle.

None of these clips flicker on my PC monitor (professional grade NEC LCD2490WUXI). They also don't flicker on the Elite as long as you turn off local dimming. Boardwalk Empire sky flicker was only noticeable in default Elite Pure on my TV. The issue is not in the source files because they don't show the problem with local dimming off.

To be sure, only play these from a USB drive attached to the TV.. not from a PC connected to the Elite. Also verify your video settings since the USB input has it's own settings memory. I used Elite Pure reset to factory settings on my 60" Elite.


----------



## Robert Zohn

jmf67 said:


> I just want to give a shout out to Kevin Miller for the killer job he did calibrating my 70" elite this past Sunday. I've had the tv since September and I thought the picuture was perfect. Now that's it's calibrated, it's way more perfect. Thanks Kevin!!





treky11 said:


> Robert, when I bought my set from you a couple months ago it included calibration, does it matter when I have it calibrated?
> 
> (trying to wait for the color fix)


Let's see what comes of Monday, 1/23/12 meeting.

-Robert



wizziwig said:


> Hi Robert,
> 
> If you can't find good test material for the pulsing issue, you can use the test patterns I uploaded a couple months ago. You can just put these files on a USB flash drive and plug right into the back of the Elite.
> 
> Here they are again:
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/y5uwn9b8vs7yca3/american_flicker.mkv
> (Scene is from Blu-Ray: The American. Look at the wall behind George Clooney)
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/o8w4gk9taoc8a7w/soaps_flicker.mpg
> (Some soap opera that happened to be running.  Same thing, look at the wall behind characters)
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/2mjncg3k84b52cl/EliteFlicker_In_Pure_Boardwalk Empire S02E01.mpg
> (HBO's Boardwalk Empire Season 2, Episode 1.  Look at the sky in Elite Pure mode.)
> 
> The scene from "The American" is probably your best bet. I was able to clearly see the background flicker on 5 out of 5 Elite sets I have tested. Start with Elite Pure to identify the worst flicker. Then try THX to see if it helps reduce it. Finally run with "local dimming off" to see how these scenes look on other TV's without the flicker.
> 
> -Mark


Thanks Mark, I'll make a USB drive and try it, and to everyone who sent PMs and made posts, thank you!

-Robert


----------



## tidesurfer

Thanks for the help, I will run through the settings again although I think I have LD just set to "on"


----------



## Theatredaz

Does anyone notice Yellow pixelating on some blurays? It happens in dark scenes and is sparodic> Aliens bluray is the worst> the TV has these yellowish fuzzy pixels that appear like fog in dark scenes in some movies> it's weird that the Aliens bluray has this effect throughout the entire film. Has anyone noticed this on some dark scenes> it's like the white contrast or something that was removed or already there is clipping> because when I trun down the brightness it is less noticable> it's basically seems like brightness clipping could effect any compressed encodes (but the Aliens bluray File I have in uncompressed).


* On a better note> I watched 3000 Miles to Grace Land DVD version> And the picture was just sharp and snappy with plenty of consistent focus and articulate detail on closeups etc> This is my first official Review using this set (and it being larger doesn't help in consistent Image Quality and good reviews) but I was amazed at how the TV looked> I've got other DVD's as well with stunning photo realsim> but it's nice to be able to enjoy the set with DVD's as well when no bluray copy is available.


----------



## tidesurfer

I havent had a chance to view Aliens bluray yet on the Elite.
I have to say though I watched both Underworld and Dark Knight this past week and they are both stunning on my Elite!


----------



## Theatredaz

tidesurfer said:


> I havent had a chance to view Aliens bluray yet on the Elite.
> I have to say though I watched both Underworld and Dark Knight this past week and they are both stunning on my Elite!


I even questioned if it was properly remastered> and found it was James cameron who worked on the remastering of it. I found that the prequel Star wars Films had nice color and viewscapes, that where emersive > even though some found it short and cheap in the effects department when evidently they actually used Real props and built Huge ships that where never digitized at all as some where (includung myself) where expecting> very nicely done.


----------



## Radtech51

Thanks for that wonderful news update Robert!:sn:


----------



## rolling green

what wonderful news?


----------



## trcnet

rolling green said:


> what wonderful news?


.....what he said.....


----------



## DJG

Somehow I think radtech is in a teasing mood ... :dontknow:


----------



## rolling green

DJG said:


> Somehow I think radtech is in a teasing mood ... :dontknow:


This is border line criminal. Anyway, any update on the supposed meeting today?


----------



## DJG

I don't think Robert needs to be prodded to answer that - I'm sure we can rely on him posting as soon as he's able :hail:.


----------



## rolling green

not prodding Robert just trying to see if any one else received any information like radtech may have. hopefully someone is willing to share


----------



## DJG

Have you ever heard of a forum member actually NOT dumping new information into the forum, whether made up or factual? :laugh:


----------



## rolling green

DJG said:


> Have you ever heard of a forum member actually NOT dumping new information into the forum, whether made up or factual? :laugh:


I agree which makes the radtech statement even more confusing. Is he talking about one of Roberts older posts or has he heard something from Robert and just likes to tease us


----------



## DJG

DJG said:


> Somehow I think radtech is in a teasing mood ... :dontknow:


Like I said  ...


----------



## Robert Zohn

Our Sharp visit started promptly at 10:30 AM EST and just ended. We showed the color accuracy issue with test and real content materials. The issue resides in cyan from 10 to 60 IRE levels. 

The engineer from Japan took pictures of the shoot-out wall with a 10% luminance level on a solid cyan test pattern. It was easy to see the Elite looked blue and the rest of the displays displayed a greenish blue (teal). We also demonstrated content that also illustrated the teal color accuracy error.

I fell confident they want to fix this and can do so with the new materials we gave them.

I am sad to say I was not able to demonstrate the pushing background, but unfortunately my two store Elite TVs will not demonstrate this anomaly. I recorder NCSI, CSI and a thumb drive a member sent me with nothing but rock solid backgrounds. We put a lot of time in viewing content with no success in duplicating the waving backgrounds. 

One funny thing did happen when we were watching an episode of CSI. Their was a lighting and thunderstorm in the scene and we all immediate said we see the flashing and fluctuating local dimming anomaly! But then the engineer said, hey all of the TVs are fluctuating, and then we realized it was filmed during a thunderstorm.

All in all a great meeting and I can tell you these guys take the Elite TV very seriously and are dedicated to provide the best customer support possible and to make this TV live up to the very high standards that the Elite brand has traditionally enjoyed among a/v-philes.

The pulsing background is reported to Sharp, but still Sharp is not able to recreate the problem. The door is not closed and I welcome any member to stop by my store and work with me on recreating the problem so I can demonstrate it to the proper Sharp engineers and management.

We combined Sharp's visit with our press conference crowning Sharp's Elite PRO-XXX5FD with our King of HDTV award for winning our 2011 HDTV Shoot-out event. I'm just finishing the upload of our press conference video on our Facebook page.

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

Great info Robert, thanks. I stand ready to invite any Sharp engineer to my home to demonstrate the issue with pulsing. 

I have recorded material that is 100 percent reproducible and easily demonstrated.

As I've said in the past, the issue does not show in the THX mode but does in the non-THX movie mode.

I'm out of town now, but would be more than happy to discuss this with you when I return.


----------



## DJG

Robert, too bad you didn't have the Star Wars Ep. V BD - it clearly shows the large high-contrast fast moving area greenish halo LD anomally which could be another symptom of the same problem. But let's hope we get the cyan fix soon.

Thank you for your efforts again!


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Robert, when you were looking for the pulsing anomaly you were watching in Elite Pure, not THX right? It's been reported by most that THX does not show the problem, while Elite Pure shows it to maximum effect. Can you please clarify if you included Elite Pure in your testing for the pulsing issue?



Robert Zohn said:


> Our Sharp visit started promptly at 10:30 AM EST and just ended. We showed the color accuracy issue with test and real content materials. The issue resides in cyan from 10 to 60 IRE levels.
> 
> The engineer from Japan took pictures of the shoot-out wall with a 10% luminance level on a solid cyan test pattern. It was easy to see the Elite looked blue and the rest of the displays displayed a greenish blue (teal). We also demonstrated content that also illustrated the teal color accuracy error.
> 
> I fell confident they want to fix this and can do so with the new materials we gave them.
> 
> I am sad to say I was not able to demonstrate the pushing background, but unfortunately my two store Elite TVs will not demonstrate this anomaly. I recorder NCSI, CSI and a thumb drive a member sent me with nothing but rock solid backgrounds. We put a lot of time in viewing content with no success in duplicating the waving backgrounds.
> 
> One funny thing did happen when we were watching an episode of CSI. Their was a lighting and thunderstorm in the scene and we all immediate said we see the flashing and fluctuating local dimming anomaly! But then the engineer said, hey all of the TVs are fluctuating, and then we realized it was filmed during a thunderstorm.
> 
> All in all a great meeting and I can tell you these guys take the Elite TV very seriously and are dedicated to provide the best customer support possible and to make this TV live up to the very high standards that the Elite brand has traditionally enjoyed among a/v-philes.
> 
> The pulsing background is reported to Sharp, but still Sharp is not able to recreate the problem. The door is not closed and I welcome any member to stop by my store and work with me on recreating the problem so I can demonstrate it to the proper Sharp engineers and management.
> 
> We combined Sharp's visit with our press conference crowning Sharp's Elite PRO-XXX5FD with our King of HDTV award for winning our 2011 HDTV Shoot-out event. I'm just finishing the upload of our press conference video on our Facebook page.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## cdiez58

Robert Zohn said:


> Our Sharp visit started promptly at 10:30 AM EST and just ended. We showed the color accuracy issue with test and real content materials. The issue resides in cyan from 10 to 60 IRE levels.
> 
> The engineer from Japan took pictures of the shoot-out wall with a 10% luminance level on a solid cyan test pattern. It was easy to see the Elite looked blue and the rest of the displays displayed a greenish blue (teal). We also demonstrated content that also illustrated the teal color accuracy error.
> 
> I fell confident they want to fix this and can do so with the new materials we gave them.
> 
> I am sad to say I was not able to demonstrate the pushing background, but unfortunately my two store Elite TVs will not demonstrate this anomaly. I recorder NCSI, CSI and a thumb drive a member sent me with nothing but rock solid backgrounds. We put a lot of time in viewing content with no success in duplicating the waving backgrounds.
> 
> One funny thing did happen when we were watching an episode of CSI. Their was a lighting and thunderstorm in the scene and we all immediate said we see the flashing and fluctuating local dimming anomaly! But then the engineer said, hey all of the TVs are fluctuating, and then we realized it was filmed during a thunderstorm.
> 
> All in all a great meeting and I can tell you these guys take the Elite TV very seriously and are dedicated to provide the best customer support possible and to make this TV live up to the very high standards that the Elite brand has traditionally enjoyed among a/v-philes.
> 
> The pulsing background is reported to Sharp, but still Sharp is not able to recreate the problem. The door is not closed and I welcome any member to stop by my store and work with me on recreating the problem so I can demonstrate it to the proper Sharp engineers and management.
> 
> We combined Sharp's visit with our press conference crowning Sharp's Elite PRO-XXX5FD with our King of HDTV award for winning our 2011 HDTV Shoot-out event. I'm just finishing the upload of our press conference video on our Facebook page.
> 
> -Robert


Hmm...I was easily able to reproduce the flicker with the supplied content from "the American" even in the THX mode...


----------



## Robert Zohn

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Robert, when you were looking for the pulsing anomaly you were watching in Elite Pure, not THX right? It's been reported by most that THX does not show the problem, while Elite Pure shows it to maximum effect. Can you please clarify if you included Elite Pure in your testing for the pulsing issue?


We used the Movie Mode, not THX Movie.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Robert, I am wondering if some of the pulsing problem was resolved in 2.15, which allegedly had some attempt at solving this problem. Do any of the people with the pulsing problem also have 2.15 installed? And since it is an informal beta, are all copies of 2.15 out there exactly the same, and I'm refering to copies obtained from Robert vs. copies obtained directly from Sharp?


----------



## rab-byte

Robert Zohn said:


> Our Sharp visit started promptly at 10:30 AM EST and just ended. We showed the color accuracy issue with test and real content materials. The issue resides in cyan from 10 to 60 IRE levels.
> 
> The engineer from Japan took pictures of the shoot-out wall with a 10% luminance level on a solid cyan test pattern. It was easy to see the Elite looked blue and the rest of the displays displayed a greenish blue (teal). We also demonstrated content that also illustrated the teal color accuracy error.
> 
> I fell confident they want to fix this and can do so with the new materials we gave them.
> 
> I am sad to say I was not able to demonstrate the pushing background, but unfortunately my two store Elite TVs will not demonstrate this anomaly. I recorder NCSI, CSI and a thumb drive a member sent me with nothing but rock solid backgrounds. We put a lot of time in viewing content with no success in duplicating the waving backgrounds.
> 
> One funny thing did happen when we were watching an episode of CSI. Their was a lighting and thunderstorm in the scene and we all immediate said we see the flashing and fluctuating local dimming anomaly! But then the engineer said, hey all of the TVs are fluctuating, and then we realized it was filmed during a thunderstorm.
> 
> All in all a great meeting and I can tell you these guys take the Elite TV very seriously and are dedicated to provide the best customer support possible and to make this TV live up to the very high standards that the Elite brand has traditionally enjoyed among a/v-philes.
> 
> The pulsing background is reported to Sharp, but still Sharp is not able to recreate the problem. The door is not closed and I welcome any member to stop by my store and work with me on recreating the problem so I can demonstrate it to the proper Sharp engineers and management.
> 
> We combined Sharp's visit with our press conference crowning Sharp's Elite PRO-XXX5FD with our King of HDTV award for winning our 2011 HDTV Shoot-out event. I'm just finishing the upload of our press conference video on our Facebook page.
> 
> -Robert


Robbert put a pluge pattern up on the elite the switch to a stepped greyscale. You should be able to see the TV adjust itself. Ive seen it take as much as a full second to level itself out.


----------



## rmongiovi

Robert, can you verify that you can put Wizziwig's clip from The American - which URL I'm not allowed to repeat yet, it's a couple of pages back - on a USB stick and play it in Elite Pure mode without flicker? Compare the clip with local dimming off versus on to verify the flicker.


----------



## Theatredaz

* IMO anyone who uses any other mode other than calibrated THX mode should realize that the other modes are not the best settings for movie watching> They're there as general settings, which as general goes sometimes does not reflect well when watching SD content> and even some HD content.

*I feel it's best if you get the TV properly calibrated or use settings from other users on this forum...My Lg Scarlets movie settings where unwatchable> calibrating the 10 point IRE and just using the User settings made the TV look perfect...and noticable better PQ compared to other modes> Why are other modes on TV's poor quality?> For the less fussy users who can watch TV without being distracted about PQ as much, they work well> for the rest who find they don't work well> there is only one choice...get the colors calibrated and forget the other settings> why is Elites settings not the best for an expensive TV? Well the TV is not really valued at $6,000 (60") only being sold at that price because of unforseen demand...otherwise the other picture mode settings are just better than average settings for people who are not that fussy about the picture.

*IMO The only settings that look the best and smoothest are THX> or an ISF calibrated setting. Your wasting the displays capability by not switching to how mathematics work concerning Image quality when calibrated.


----------



## cdiez58

Robert Zohn said:


> We used the Movie Mode, not THX Movie.
> 
> -Robert


Robert...love you....but tell me that when you had your Sharp people there....you tried more than "movie" mode to reproduce the flicker...to me while minor...is a bigger deal than the cyan issue...


----------



## rmongiovi

Theatredaz said:


> * IMO anyone who uses any other mode other than calibrated THX mode should realize that the other modes are not the best settings for movie watching>


That may be true, but you're missing the point.

Sharp has a bug in their local dimming algorithm or controller. We're trying to demonstrate that bug. We're not trying to find the mode that minimizes the effect of the bug. While it is certainly nice that the problem isn't obtrusive for most people, for some it is visible and distracting even in THX mode. After all, turning "monochrome" mode on will get rid of the cyan error, but no one is suggesting that as a fix.

We need to demonstrate the problem at its worst, so that Sharp can stop claiming they don't see it. If they can fix it at its worst the quality of all the modes will be improved.


----------



## rolling green

what a let down. Love my elite but does sharp really need to fly over seas just to take snap shots of different shades of cyan? Sharp needed to see side by side comparisons between other manufacturer's display of cyan to see the issue? really? 

_I fell confident they want to fix this and can do so with the new materials we gave them._

what new material was given?

Robert, just wondering if you tried to reproduce the pulsing before they arrived? I would have made sure I had the correct material to duplicate the pulsing and see it for myself before attempting to show it to the sharp reps. Can you give us any other information besides what was posted that the meeting was successful? 
I really do appreciate your effort Robert.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

There is no excuse for the image pulsing or flickering in any of the video modes. They are there to be used, and should work without defects.



Theatredaz said:


> * IMO anyone who uses any other mode other than calibrated THX mode should realize that the other modes are not the best settings for movie watching> They're there as general settings, which as general goes sometimes does not reflect well when watching SD content> and even some HD content.
> 
> *I feel it's best if you get the TV properly calibrated or use settings from other users on this forum...My Lg Scarlets movie settings where unwatchable> calibrating the 10 point IRE and just using the User settings made the TV look perfect...and noticable better PQ compared to other modes> Why are other modes on TV's poor quality?> For the less fussy users who can watch TV without being distracted about PQ as much, they work well> for the rest who find they don't work well> there is only one choice...get the colors calibrated and forget the other settings> why is Elites settings not the best for an expensive TV? Well the TV is not really valued at $6,000 (60") only being sold at that price because of unforseen demand...otherwise the other picture mode settings are just better than average settings for people who are not that fussy about the picture.
> 
> *IMO The only settings that look the best and smoothest are THX> or an ISF calibrated setting. Your wasting the displays capability by not switching to how mathematics work concerning Image quality when calibrated.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Robert, did you ask Sharp why, after over 3 months, they are only now looking into the cyan issue? What about the multiple times they told you they were "working on it" but it wasn't perfect, or the times they told you the firmware is done and passing through legal? Those are very conflicting messages from a company that sent someone all the way to the east coast to take a few snaps of the color cyan on your wall. That does not seem like a rational way for a TV manufacturer to behave in the face of a color issue that can easily be reproduced and the steps to reproduce the defect can easily be communicated in an email.

Am I the only one thinking that something doesn't sound right here? And Robert, you have been nothing but the best throughout all of this. I'm questioning Sharp's actions and statements, not yours. From the outside looking in, it appears like Sharp is pulling our leg.


----------



## rmongiovi

To quote from Robert's post: "We combined Sharp's visit with our press conference crowning Sharp's Elite PRO-XXX5FD with our King of HDTV award for winning our 2011 HDTV Shoot-out event."

Seems to me they came out for the PR event for winning the shootout. Demoing their issues was just talk.


----------



## Ken Ross

rmongiovi said:


> To quote from Robert's post: "We combined Sharp's visit with our press conference crowning Sharp's Elite PRO-XXX5FD with our King of HDTV award for winning our 2011 HDTV Shoot-out event."
> 
> Seems to me they came out for the PR event for winning the shootout. Demoing their issues was just talk.


It wasn't just talk. Kevin Miller made a special trip just to assist in the demo. He wasn't there for any PR.

I think we need to be fair here.


----------



## rmongiovi

Unfortunately, I'm not being payed to be a poster boy for Sharp.

I paid dearly for this trip on the runaround express. If any of the things I've been promised from day one actually do take place, I'll be happy to admit it. But what part of "so far it's been all talk" is incorrect?


----------



## Ken Ross

rmongiovi said:


> Unfortunately, I'm not being payed to be a poster boy for Sharp.
> 
> I paid dearly for this trip on the runaround express. If any of the things I've been promised from day one actually do take place, I'll be happy to admit it. But what part of "so far it's been all talk" is incorrect?


Nor am I being paid by anyone. I'm just as frustrated as anyone. The difference is I choose to remain optimistic. In the interim I'm fully enjoying my Elite.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Update - A supervisor, Will Pucket, at Sharp called me today to give me an update on two fronts. 

1) flash issue - He said the anomaly relates to a local dimming issue on media content. Duh! I came to that conclusion awhile ago. He said to basically turn LD off to avoid that issue on that content. I told them that I purchased this TV for the LD on this set. They said they didn't close my case since they're still running tests. I do have to say the new Elite I received hasn't showed the anomaly except for one movie this time around which may be in the end defective. I'm thinking the original boards on the Elites for the few of us that bought the original lot of Elites may have been defective. Per Kevin Miller on another forum stated that the anomalies were not nearly as drastic as the one used in the shootout at VE. I think there may be a truth to it.

2) cyan issue - less important than flash issue... He said that the engineers are working around the clock to get a FW update soon. He noted that alot of people have concern for it. In fact, he was going to call another owner regarding the same issue. I think they honestly only really attempted to fix it now after seeing how many complaints finally came in. That's the tone I gathered from my discussion with the Sharp rep.


----------



## rmongiovi

Ken Ross said:


> Nor am I being paid by anyone. I'm just as frustrated as anyone. The difference is I choose to remain optimistic. In the interim I'm fully enjoying me Elite.


I didn't say you were Ken. I simply stated that I have no ulterior motive for expressing a positive outlook. I'm glad you can remain optimistic, and I hope things turn out well, but I'm certain your optimism has no impact on reality.

Anyone with a pattern generator and a spectrometer can measure the color errors. They saw it on the wall during the shootout. Shortly thereafter we were told measurements had been sent off to Sharp. Then we were told they were working on it. And later that they had a fix but weren't happy with it. Now we're told that finally after this latest "demo" of the problem they understand it and will fix it.

We complain about the flickering background problem. Sharp says they can't reproduce it in the lab and asks for examples. We send them examples. They say they can't reproduce it. In five minutes anyone can take Wizziwig's clip from the American, put it on a USB stick, set the Elite to "Elite Pure" mode and reproduce the problem. It's a no-brainer.

Forget about optimism about the future. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. Looking at what has actually happened up to this point I can't describe it as anything other than being given the runaround. If there has been any serious attempt to alleviate these problems we have no evidence of it.

In my personal case, they've tried two things. They replaced two boards in my original Elite and broke its color temperature without fixing the flickering background problem. All they did was demonstrate that they don't even have the technical expertise to swap out boards correctly. To fix it, they sent me a brand new unit which does indeed have a better picture but which still exhibits the flickering background. I don't see how these are the actions of a company that is working on fixing the problem. They sound more like evidence that they have no idea what's going on.


----------



## Theatredaz

* Sharp stated that only on some networks does the issue occur> this means that the networks that broadcast the signal are in the error> but if it on Bluray content (flicker occurs) then the issue lies within the set itself> it's unfortunate that some people get the issue and some do not> none the less for broadcasters signals to cause the TV to flicker, one needs to understand that broadcasters send out a JUNK signal with hundreds of different 3:2 pulldowns> it means they cut corenrs to make the program fit in the time slot> this means dropping froms> and possibly other abnoxious things...being that the TV is a local dimming set> it could be that those shortcuts can begin to reflect on the TV itself on some scenes when other features are engaged>*This itself complicates and already complicated signal the TV has to de-cipcher (De-interlace) very poorly might I add since the chip inside the TV already has problems de-interlacing Bluray signals properly.

* I think Sharp already knows what is causing the TV to Flicker> and that is the content itself (which brings us back to the above mentioned)> this could result in the issue not being resolved...although it doesn't help the fact that other TV's with local dimming don't have this issue.


----------



## aleicgrant

sadly for me the pulse issue is seen in THX. I can also replicate it with content from a DTV HD DVR, PS3 and even the internal Vudu app running an HDX stream.


----------



## rmongiovi

I don't think there's any question that it's the content that causes the Elite to flicker. I've never seen mine flicker when it is turned off.

The flicker does occur while playing a blu-ray. If Sharp told you otherwise they fibbed.


----------



## JimP

Theatredaz said:


> * Sharp stated that only on some networks does the issue occur> this means that the networks that broadcast the signal are in the error> but if it on Bluray content (flicker occurs) then the issue lies within the set itself> it's unfortunate that some people get the issue and some do not> none the less for broadcasters signals to cause the TV to flicker, one needs to understand that broadcasters send out a JUNK signal with hundreds of different 3:2 pulldowns> it means they cut corenrs to make the program fit in the time slot> this means dropping froms> and possibly other abnoxious things...being that the TV is a local dimming set> it could be that those shortcuts can begin to reflect on the TV itself on some scenes when other features are engaged>*This itself complicates and already complicated signal the TV has to de-cipcher (De-interlace) very poorly might I add since the chip inside the TV already has problems de-interlacing Bluray signals properly.
> 
> * I think Sharp already knows what is causing the TV to Flicker> and that is the content itself (which brings us back to the above mentioned)> this could result in the issue not being resolved...although it doesn't help the fact that other TV's with local dimming don't have this issue.


Nor does it explain why when you turn local dimming off, the effect stops.


----------



## aleicgrant

rmongiovi said:


> I don't think there's any question that it's the content that causes the Elite to flicker. I've never seen mine flicker when it is turned off.
> 
> The flicker does occur while playing a blu-ray. If Sharp told you otherwise they fibbed.


this is why I mentioned the Vudu part. I think Sharp was trying to indicate that it was something to do with an HDMI connected source. Seeing it in Vudu further validates (in my opinion) that the LD really has a serious bug


----------



## Theatredaz

aleicgrant said:


> this is why I mentioned the Vudu part. I think Sharp was trying to indicate that it was something to do with an HDMI connected source. Seeing it in Vudu further validates (in my opinion) that the LD really has a serious bug


It could be how the gamma is interpreted within the local dimming logic algorithms> gamma is another brightness function.


----------



## rmongiovi

The interesting part is that you can take a scene that flickers and view it with local dimming turned off and there just isn't anything obvious about the background that is causing the flickering.

I would think there is some slight fluctuation in the background that local dimming is exaggerating, but if there is it's subliminal.

Sounds like a typical "we don't know so I'm making this up" sort of answer.


----------



## g997

Discrete remote code help

Guys,

How do I get them?

Thanks

GJ


----------



## Robert Zohn

rmongiovi said:


> Robert, can you verify that you can put Wizziwig's clip from The American - which URL I'm not allowed to repeat yet, it's a couple of pages back - on a USB stick and play it in Elite Pure mode without flicker? Compare the clip with local dimming off versus on to verify the flicker.


Yes I did and my 60" store demo Elite was as stable as the rock of Gibraltar.

-Robert



Theatredaz said:


> * IMO anyone who uses any other mode other than calibrated THX mode should realize that the other modes are not the best settings for movie watching> They're there as general settings, which as general goes sometimes does not reflect well when watching SD content> and even some HD content.


Honestly, I agree with this. Almost everyone who sees the pulsing does not see it in THX Movie and in some cases the pulsing is very minimal. Also by far the THX mode is the best looking mode and the only mode that supports 10 point settings. Elite TVs clearly perform best and deliver the very best pq in the THX mode.

I don't think this is a excuse for Sharp not to fix the issue, but what I don't get is why anyone would want to use any other mode. 

To those very few folks that have the pulsing in the THX mode, get your TV swapped. I believe rmongiovi has had his TV swapped and it now performs much better in THX. Is that correct rmongiovi?

-Robert



cdiez58 said:


> Robert...love you....but tell me that when you had your Sharp people there....you tried more than "movie" mode to reproduce the flicker...to me while minor...is a bigger deal than the cyan issue...


Sorry to say I had these execs in my store for most of the day and we spent almost 2 hours watching my Elite (sorry all in the movie mode) and could not reproduce the anomaly. Kevin Miller set-up his signal generator and we also tried several test patterns. I did not test it in advance as it was recommended for me to record NCSI and CSI to best demonstrate the pulsing and the meeting was scheduled for early AM Monday, 1/23 and I just did not have the test content available or the time to do advance testing.

-Robert



rmongiovi said:


> That may be true, but you're missing the point.
> 
> Sharp has a bug in their local dimming algorithm or controller. We're trying to demonstrate that bug. We're not trying to find the mode that minimizes the effect of the bug. While it is certainly nice that the problem isn't obtrusive for most people, for some it is visible and distracting even in THX mode. After all, turning "monochrome" mode on will get rid of the cyan error, but no one is suggesting that as a fix.
> 
> We need to demonstrate the problem at its worst, so that Sharp can stop claiming they don't see it. If they can fix it at its worst the quality of all the modes will be improved.


I agree and we're breaking in two 70" Elites as I write this. I will put the time into recreating the problem and have the Sharp folks back to my store once I have a controlled way to reliably demonstrate the pulsing.

-Robert



AZREOSpecialist said:


> There is no excuse for the image pulsing or flickering in any of the video modes. They are there to be used, and should work without defects.


Again I do agree, but I never use any other mode and thoroughly love my personal 70" Elite TV every day. 

-Robert



AZREOSpecialist said:


> Robert, did you ask Sharp why, after over 3 months, they are only now looking into the cyan issue? What about the multiple times they told you they were "working on it" but it wasn't perfect, or the times they told you the firmware is done and passing through legal? Those are very conflicting messages from a company that sent someone all the way to the east coast to take a few snaps of the color cyan on your wall. That does not seem like a rational way for a TV manufacturer to behave in the face of a color issue that can easily be reproduced and the steps to reproduce the defect can easily be communicated in an email.
> 
> Am I the only one thinking that something doesn't sound right here? And Robert, you have been nothing but the best throughout all of this. I'm questioning Sharp's actions and statements, not yours. From the outside looking in, it appears like Sharp is pulling our leg.


Yes I asked why the color fix is taking so long. 

First, please understand that I have great relationships with many of the top management and therefore speak to several different people and sometimes get varied information. I have learned to reconfirm everything I hear with a second source before posting anything I hear, just like any good news reporter does. 

Second, what was actually explained is every time the engineers come up with a fix, Sharp's internal test engineers find very minor secondary color errors. They do not want to fix cyan and have another color, even if it's to a lesser degree be incorrect. This fix was estimated to be fast and easy and has turned out to be more difficult than expected. 

The reason for the visit was to have Sharp's engineering liaison to Japan see the problem on our shoot-out wall and to get a complete engineering report from Kevin Miller and myself. Kevin had all of his test and measurement equipment attached to our distribution system and displayed cyan at 10% IRE across the entire shoot-out wall. We also demonstrated content and delivered reports that show the exact IRE points where the cyan color errors occur.

It was a great meeting.

-Robert



rmongiovi said:


> To quote from Robert's post: "We combined Sharp's visit with our press conference crowning Sharp's Elite PRO-XXX5FD with our King of HDTV award for winning our 2011 HDTV Shoot-out event."
> 
> Seems to me they came out for the PR event for winning the shootout. Demoing their issues was just talk.


That is not correct. The color fix and pulsing engineering meeting was scheduled at the conclusion of CES and one week later I decided to combine the engineering meeting with our award ceremony press conference. 

-Robert



Ken Ross said:


> It wasn't just talk. Kevin Miller made a special trip just to assist in the demo. He wasn't there for any PR.
> 
> I think we need to be fair here.


Thank you, however, I did include Kevin in the award ceremony press conference as he is our keynote speaker and master calibrator at our annual shoot-out events.

-Robert



rmongiovi said:


> I didn't say you were Ken. I simply stated that I have no ulterior motive for expressing a positive outlook. I'm glad you can remain optimistic, and I hope things turn out well, but I'm certain your optimism has no impact on reality.
> 
> Anyone with a pattern generator and a spectrometer can measure the color errors. They saw it on the wall during the shootout. Shortly thereafter we were told measurements had been sent off to Sharp. Then we were told they were working on it. And later that they had a fix but weren't happy with it. Now we're told that finally after this latest "demo" of the problem they understand it and will fix it.
> 
> We complain about the flickering background problem. Sharp says they can't reproduce it in the lab and asks for examples. We send them examples. They say they can't reproduce it. In five minutes anyone can take Wizziwig's clip from the American, put it on a USB stick, set the Elite to "Elite Pure" mode and reproduce the problem. It's a no-brainer.
> 
> Forget about optimism about the future. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen. Looking at what has actually happened up to this point I can't describe it as anything other than being given the runaround. If there has been any serious attempt to alleviate these problems we have no evidence of it.
> 
> In my personal case, they've tried two things. They replaced two boards in my original Elite and *broke its color temperature without fixing the flickering background problem. All they did was demonstrate that they don't even have the technical expertise to swap out boards correctly.* To fix it, they sent me a *brand new unit which does indeed have a better picture* but which still exhibits the flickering background. I don't see how these are the actions of a company that is working on fixing the problem. They sound more like evidence that they have no idea what's going on.


Breaking the color temp has nothing to do with Sharp as all field service is done by small independent repair shops. 

Glad they replaced the TV and you are enjoying better pq vs.your original first production Elite TV. As I noted above I believe I read on AVS Forum that the pulsing issue in THX is almost non-existent. Did I understand that correctly?

-Robert



aleicgrant said:


> sadly for me the pulse issue is seen in THX. I can also replicate it with content from a DTV HD DVR, PS3 and even the internal Vudu app running an HDX stream.


Aleic, we should get your TV replaced.

-Robert

Finally, I hope no one minds my candid remarks. I am simply trying to put everything into perspective and answer as much as I can to help everyone understand exactly what is happening.

-Robert


----------



## Turbe

Robert Zohn said:


> Also by far the THX mode is the best looking mode and the only mode that supports 10 point settings. Elite TVs clearly perform best and deliver the very best pq in the THX mode.
> 
> Read more: ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD Discussion Thread - Page 141 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


The ISFccc Interface has 10 point w/b as well.

There hasn't been a lot of work/reports in ISFccc since many haven't had the proper tools to access it in the past and the fact that many Calibrators had postponed their Elite calibrations... this is changing as these Calibrators are starting to accept appointments with the Elites and also adding the ControlCAL Elite License to their kit.

Hopefully, we will start seeing more data about C3, soon...


----------



## rmongiovi

Yes Robert, if I play "The American" clip in Elite Pure mode I see pronounced flicker, but if I switch to THX there's a bit of subtle scintillation in the background near the edges of the screen but you have to look closely for it. It doesn't really detract from the enjoyment of the picture. It's interesting, though, that your 60" doesn't show anything in Elite Pure mode.

You say that third party field service replaced the boards in my TV, and that's certainly true. But it is Sharp's responsibility to give the correct process for that replacement to the technician. There's another member of avsforum, N3W813, who also had the boards replaced in his Elite for exactly the same reason and with exactly the same result - the color temperature was much too blue after the replacement. I conclude that there are clearly some service menu settings that should have been copied from the old to the new boards. I have two data points that make it appear Sharp did not make the technicians aware of the correct process for swapping the boards.

I stand corrected on my explanation for your meeting with Sharp. So, why *did* Sharp need to come out to have you demonstrate a problem they've been working on for three months? If they want to demonstrate they care, an honest progress report would be better. Say, a report with gamut measurements from 10 to 100 percent, showing the error that they have identified and the steps that are being taken to correct it, would be ideal.


----------



## Robert Zohn

rmongiovi said:


> Yes Robert, if I play "The American" clip in Elite Pure mode I see pronounced flicker, but if I switch to THX there's a bit of subtle scintillation in the background near the edges of the screen but you have to look closely for it. It doesn't really detract from the enjoyment of the picture. It's interesting, though, that your 60" doesn't show anything in Elite Pure mode.
> 
> You say that third party field service replaced the boards in my TV, and that's certainly true. But it is Sharp's responsibility to give the correct process for that replacement to the technician. There's another member of avsforum, N3W813, who also had the boards replaced in his Elite for exactly the same reason and with exactly the same result - the color temperature was much too blue after the replacement. I conclude that there are clearly some service menu settings that should have been copied from the old to the new boards. I have two data points that make it appear Sharp did not make the technicians aware of the correct process for swapping the boards.
> 
> I stand corrected on my explanation for your meeting with Sharp. So, why *did* Sharp need to come out to have you demonstrate a problem they've been working on for three months? If they want to demonstrate they care, an honest progress report would be better. Say, a report with gamut measurements from 10 to 100 percent, showing the error that they have identified and the steps that are being taken to correct it, would be ideal.


Glad to see your replacement TV performs better. Sharp or any manufacturer can educate the field service techs all day long and someone will still screw things up. But even with that said, my main point was not to put all of the blame on Sharp or to fell that because a field service tech from and independent company represents the culture of Sharp. 

Sharp deeply respects the Elite brand and what it stands for and they are seriously committed to delivering the highest level of customer support and to maintain the TV with upgrades as needed. I asked Sharp to develop discrete codes and within one week I have the codes and method to install them. The cyan color error and pulsing background is more difficult to fix.

BTW, the cyan color error is limited to 10 to 50 IRE so it appears mostly in content that has mid to fully saturated teal colors.

I definitely agree this is taking longer than expected or that anyone would like, including my contacts at Sharp and myself. The meeting was a nice idea to best show in real world content as well as cyan 10% generated and displayed across the entire shoot-out wall. We also supplied written engineering documentation and charts to show exactly where the cyan error occurs. I don't think you could see the actual real life effects of the color issue without comparing the Elite to other well calibrated color accurate displays.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

And just for the fun of it here's the video of the press conference. And here's an article published in Residential Systems about our shoot-out award ceremony press conference. Please tweet, like and Facebook the article.

If you watch the video you will see me say okay it's time for our private meeting. 






-Robert


----------



## rmongiovi

One of the things I've noticed in calibrating the Elite is the difficulty in getting good facial coloration. I'm having a real problem with skin having a yellowish cast or highlight. I'm not sure what error to blame this on considering it varies so much with skin color.

I did a little google without much result, but I did find this: http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/93363

I thought the section on the importance of cyan to skin tone was interesting since you wouldn't necessarily expect it. Of course, it's talking about subtractive color rather than additive as in a display so I'm not certain how applicable it really is....

When I make a mistake in what I do, I have to explain the mistake to my customers and detail the steps that are being taken to prevent a repetition of the mistake. I expect that same level of support when I'm the customer. I don't expect to have the more knowledgeable party, Sharp in this instance, to keep coming back to me asking for more details of the problem. For both the cyan and flickering problems they have all the tools necessary to reproduce it. It should now be in their hands to determine the extent of the bug and the best fix. That's customer support.


----------



## DJG

What software/plug-ins & meter are you using?


----------



## rmongiovi

chromapure and i1 pro


----------



## mjw

rmongiovi said:


> Looking at what has actually happened up to this point I can't describe it as anything other than being given the runaround.


It could even be the case that the Japanese engineers in Sharp Japan are giving the runaround to the Sharp USA sales office and the US sales office are passing on the misunderstanding to the rest of us. Read this for some insight into Japanese business culture


> In the Japanese culture whether it be in personal or business, there is no "no" in spoken language. Of course there is a word "no" which everyone understands but adults do not use the word "no". Then how does one communicate "no" to another?
> 
> Before answering, one needs to understand that the Japanese language is not a precise language like English. It is an imprecise language. There are so many ways to say a particular thought or a phrase that even amongst the Japanese, at times, it is difficult to really understand what one is trying to say.
> 
> It is considered impolite or rude to say negative words so precisely like saying "no". Thus if one wanted to convey a negative response, one does not say "no" but one says something else that has a clue in it. That clue is left up to the listener to figure out what was the clue and the message in the clue. Many times, people go around trying to figure out what the other person is really saying. If one deals with a particular person a lot, then one gets to understand their style of saying "no" as each individual has their own style.
> 
> The problem is for new comers or foreigners as if you are meeting a person for the first time or if you only met a few times, you are still trying to figure out what they are tying to convey to you because you do not know their refusal style.
> 
> The easy "no" answers are like "I personally like it" which is a dead give away for saying "no". Others are like "I'll see what I can do" and "We'll meet internally and discuss it".
> 
> I've often heard from my Japanese associates that foreigners, especially westerners always tries to get a "yes" answer from them to close a deal when they are not yet ready to give such an answer. However, foreigners many times make a mistake thinking that the Japanese side said "yes" because the foreigner asked the Japanese "do you agree" and the Japanese said "yes" so the foreigner thought but what the Japanese was actually saying was "yes, I understand (English) what you said but I did not say that I agree with what you said". The Japanese was merely acknowledging what the foreigner was saying. The Japanese culture also include a nodding of face to acknowledge what the other person is saying so this gesture also makes it confusing as it seems that the Japanese are agreeing to what the Westerner is saying. Combine all this with Tatemai, it increases confusion. I think the phrase "don't call us, we'll call you" is very appropriate. If the other side is interested, they will certainly progress towards a mutually beneficial relationship.


----------



## rmongiovi

I've actually read about that before. But of course, being both an American and a network engineer I believe in the value of reality over fantasy. It matters not a bit to me how you do or do not say "no." The effect is the same. If they don't want to say "no", then they need to say "yes." Taking a long time to tell me I'm SOL is not going to make it easier to take. Alternatively, they could charge less for a product that doesn't work quite right....

Like I said, I don't at all mind that I don't have a fix yet. I've written a lot of software in my day and I'm quite aware that problems are frequently not easy to fix. All I want is a description of the plan and periodic updates. This "we acknowledge the problem", "what's the problem?" loop just makes them look incompetent or recalcitrant to me.


----------



## aleicgrant

Wow look at the response from Robert. I ask you, what other vendor takes the time out of a busy day to go line by line and address each post. Class act isnt enough justice to describe Robert.

I know all of us have super high expectations of this tv but do you think the manager at magnolia would go through all this trouble. 

I feel there will be a solution but lets all settle back a little. The elite is still the king in my opinion even with the issues.

Robert, who should I call for a replacement


----------



## ALMFamily

aleicgrant said:


> Wow look at the response from Robert. I ask you, what other vendor takes the time out of a busy day to go line by line and address each post. Class act isnt enough justice to describe Robert.
> 
> I know all of us have super high expectations of this tv but do you think the manager at magnolia would go through all this trouble.
> 
> I feel there will be a solution but lets all settle back a little. The elite is still the king in my opinion even with the issues.
> 
> Robert, who should I call for a replacement


+1 - I do not own an Elite, but I read every post from every thread and I must say Robert is a class act. If I am ever in the market for one, I will be sure to look him up. 

Robert - I salute you sir. :hail:


----------



## Ken Ross

Theatredaz said:


> * I think Sharp already knows what is causing the TV to Flicker> and that is the content itself (which brings us back to the above mentioned)> this could result in the issue not being resolved...although it doesn't help the fact that other TV's with local dimming don't have this issue.


I don't think it's that simple. On my set, there is absolutely no evidence of the pulsing when in THX mode. However, when in non-THX movie mode (all other modes look unacceptable to me) I do see the pulsing. Keep in mind in both modes I have LD engaged in an identical manner.

So it's not 'just' the content. Yes, the content does determine if the issue manifests itself, but it can show or not show depending on which mode you're in, even if you always have LD engaged. So if it doesn't show in THX mode, it can't just be the material.


----------



## rmongiovi

I agree with you Ken, but even if it's something subliminal in the source that's provoking the flickering response it's not acceptable. It may be true that some source is not perfectly encoded, but that's a fact of life. The Elite needs to deal with it in a graceful fashion. Blaming the other guy isn't an acceptable customer support tactic even though it does have a long history.


----------



## Ken Ross

rmongiovi said:


> One of the things I've noticed in calibrating the Elite is the difficulty in getting good facial coloration. I'm having a real problem with skin having a yellowish cast or highlight. I'm not sure what error to blame this on considering it varies so much with skin color.
> 
> I did a little google without much result, but I did find this: http://help.smugmug.com/customer/portal/articles/93363
> 
> I thought the section on the importance of cyan to skin tone was interesting since you wouldn't necessarily expect it. Of course, it's talking about subtractive color rather than additive as in a display so I'm not certain how applicable it really is....


I've posted this before, but I can't say I've ever seen this error you mention except in stylized movies & some TV shows. There are a myriad of live telecasts, newscasts etc. which are never stylized and those never ever show that yellowish skin tone you mention. You can see subtle variations in camera to camera and channel to channel, but nothing I'd ever describe as 'yellowish'.

Quite the contrary I see a wide variety of what certainly appear to be correct skin tones, nothing that ever makes me say 'that doesn't look quite right'. In fact, like many others, I find this display not only shows the best skin tones I've ever seen, but a huge variety of 'believable' skin tones from various shades of tans to fair-skinned people to blacks. All look very realistic.

Now on the 'stylized' broadcasts & movies we sometimes see (that are, IMO, becoming unfortunately more common), yes, there on occasion you do see a yellowish cast. But hey, I see exactly the same thing in theaters and find it every bit as annoying. As you can see, I'm not in to these 'me too' stylized shows & movies. But the important thing is that I'm 100% convinced it's inherent in the material, not an error in the display. I've never seen any Elite in any MHT that showed anything that looked as if it had a yellowish cast.


----------



## Ken Ross

aleicgrant said:


> Wow look at the response from Robert. I ask you, what other vendor takes the time out of a busy day to go line by line and address each post. Class act isnt enough justice to describe Robert.
> 
> I know all of us have super high expectations of this tv but do you think the manager at magnolia would go through all this trouble.
> 
> I feel there will be a solution but lets all settle back a little. The elite is still the king in my opinion even with the issues.
> 
> Robert, who should I call for a replacement


And this is why I think the sniping that's taken place at Robert's expense are really unfortunate. Whether or not we ever get a cyan fix is one thing, but to say Robert didn't go _way above & beyond any other dealer_ is just not accurate.


----------



## Ken Ross

rmongiovi said:


> I agree with you Ken, but even if it's something subliminal in the source that's provoking the flickering response it's not acceptable. It may be true that some source is not perfectly encoded, but that's a fact of life. The Elite needs to deal with it in a graceful fashion. Blaming the other guy isn't an acceptable customer support tactic even though it does have a long history.


I may have not expressed myself clearly. I was in fact blaming the Elite and not the material. That's why I said if it doesn't show in the THX mode on my display, it can't be the material causing it. Yes, the material can precipitate the issue in certain modes, on certain displays, but it IS the Elite that's causing it to manifest itself at all.

Fortunately most people either don't have it or don't have it in THX mode. It seems that even those that do have it in THX mode have it to a very slight degree. If that's not the case, then as Robert suggested, they should get their units swapped out.


----------



## aleicgrant

Ken Ross said:


> And this is why I think the sniping that's taken place at Robert's expense are really unfortunate. Whether or not we ever get a cyan fix is one thing, but to say Robert didn't go way above & beyond any other dealer is just not accurate.


Well we both know that is primarily over at the circus known as avs ;-)


----------



## rmongiovi

Ken Ross said:


> I've posted this before, but I can't say I've ever seen this error you mention except in stylized movies & some TV shows. There are a myriad of live telecasts, newscasts etc. which are never stylized and those never ever show that yellowish skin tone you mention. You can see subtle variations in camera to camera and channel to channel, but nothing I'd ever describe as 'yellowish'.


What's happening to me is definitely something in my calibration. I've enabled both ISF day and night.

I calibrated night mode with a target of 35 foot lamberts at 100% white and gamma 2.4. Then I calibrated day mode with a target of 45 foot lamberts at 100% white and gamma about 2.23. I could switch between day and night and see yellow highlights in day mode and good skin tone in night mode. So it's definitely something about how I've got it calibrated.

I scrapped my ISF day settings and tried again last night. With local dimming turned off (as it is when ISF modes are first enabled) my skin tones are still a bit yellowish but they get better when I turn local dimming on. I'm thinking that the lower gamma and brighter picture may be combining with the color decoder inaccuracies to cause it, but no one has complained about yellow being non-linear so who knows?

I don't have a pattern generator, just AVSHD, so all I've got it 75% and 100% color windows. I can't really explore what happens between 10 and 50%.

I know no one really cares about any of the modes other than THX (or ISF), but have you ever put up a greyscale ramp and looked at it under the other modes? Most of my other modes have huge color temperature variance in the greyscale. A couple of them actually get purple around 30% or so stimulus. Not acceptable at all....


----------



## DJG

Rmongiovi, I've experienced something similar myself (using CalMAN rather than ChromaPure, also an i1), but nothing that extreme. I get a warm slightly yellowish greyscale, which I then tweak in the CMS section visually. I have a feeling that the RGB+Y math may not lend itself to tha usual calibration math .

BTW, CalMAN has an Elite-specific workflow, I'm wondering if that is helping with a more uniform greyscale?


----------



## rmongiovi

I don't have problems with the calibrated greyscale, either in THX or in the ISF modes. My average delta-E is under 1. It's the out of the box greyscale in the modes I haven't corrected that have this enormous hump around 30% or so. It's not just that their color temperature is off, it's that it's so far off as to be purple.


----------



## DJG

Ahh, I misunderstood you.


----------



## cdiez58

Ken Ross said:


> And this is why I think the sniping that's taken place at Robert's expense are really unfortunate. Whether or not we ever get a cyan fix is one thing, but to say Robert didn't go way above & beyond any other dealer is just not accurate.


agreed...Robert is a really good guy....stuck between a rock and a hard place with these issues. He can't play too much hard ball without alienating his Sharp relationship.....


----------



## Widamere

A HUGE +1 for Robert. I didn't buy my elite, which comes in on Friday BTW!!!!!!, from VE and he still sent me a PM that if I had any trouble to contact him. He is in fact a class act and believe he is taking it so far because he truly does care. Tnx Robert. And a side thank you to ken Ross, his posts have been most valuable

Mike


----------



## buzzard767

rmongiovi said:


> I don't have a pattern generator, just AVSHD, so all I've got it 75% and 100% color windows. I can't really explore what happens between 10 and 50%..


Not home and from memory but aren't 25 & 50% patterns available in the HCFR section of AVSHD?


----------



## Ken Ross

aleicgrant said:


> Well we both know that is primarily over at the circus known as avs ;-)


Yup. It's really not much fun over there. We've got a few trolls that are just hell bent on demeaning this great display at every chance they get. It just amazes me that these people, who have no intention whatever to buy this unit, have nothing better to do. As some have suggested, jealousy is often the motivation.


----------



## Ken Ross

rmongiovi said:


> I know no one really cares about any of the modes other than THX (or ISF), but have you ever put up a greyscale ramp and looked at it under the other modes? Most of my other modes have huge color temperature variance in the greyscale. A couple of them actually get purple around 30% or so stimulus. Not acceptable at all....


it definitely sounds like a calibration issue as I haven't seen anyone else characterizing flesh tones as yellowish. 

I've looked at grayscale ramps in both THX and Non-THX movie modes and have not seen that color variance. Very neutral from top to bottom as far as I can see. I haven't looked at the other modes only because they all looked so bad to me, I saw no point in pursuing them. Certainly the Elite pure mode bares no resemblance to the pure mode of the Kuro.


----------



## Ken Ross

Widamere said:


> A HUGE +1 for Robert. I didn't buy my elite, which comes in on Friday BTW!!!!!!, from VE and he still sent me a PM that if I had any trouble to contact him. He is in fact a class act and believe he is taking it so far because he truly does care. Tnx Robert. And a side thank you to ken Ross, his posts have been most valuable
> 
> Mike


Thanks much Mike.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thanks Aleic, Ken, DJG, rmongiovi, cdiez58, Widamere (Mike) and everyone, my very long term advocacy for the a/v enthusiasts has been a serious mission for me. 

Unusually, I wear two hats, one as a highly respected dealer and second with our annual high-end evaluation review event. 

Aleic, I'll PM you.

-Robert



aleicgrant said:


> Wow look at the response from Robert. I ask you, what other vendor takes the time out of a busy day to go line by line and address each post. Class act isn't enough justice to describe Robert.
> 
> I know all of us have super high expectations of this tv but do you think the manager at magnolia would go through all this trouble.
> 
> I feel there will be a solution but lets all settle back a little. The elite is still the king in my opinion even with the issues.
> 
> Robert, who should I call for a replacement


----------



## Widamere

For Radtech and Ken, are you still using the settings from CNET (+3 to color), or have you found better settings?.......gonna need 'em friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Weaselboy

Widamere said:


> For Radtech and Ken, are you still using the settings from CNET (+3 to color), or have you found better settings?.......gonna need 'em friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Just as another data point, I was using the CNet settings on my 60" Elite and thought some of the skin tones were a little yellow/green at times, so reset to the default Movie THX settings with contrast at 30 and color +3. Looks much more natural to me. I think sometimes transferring these calibration settings between sets can be hit or miss.

I don't notice any cyan error or pulsing, and I have looked since reading the forums.

Enjoy your new TV. :T


----------



## trcnet

Widamere said:


> For Radtech and Ken, are you still using the settings from CNET (+3 to color), or have you found better settings?.......gonna need 'em friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I've been using Cnet's setting on my 60" Elite with color at +3 and for me they are stellar!!! I've been trying to improve on them and to my eye even the slightest adjustment change seems makes things look off.

Good luck on finding the settings that click for you and enjoy this fantastic set.

best,
Tom


----------



## rab-byte

Using someone else's setting can be a good jumping off point but every display will behave a little different, since no 2 sets are truly the same. That get to the heart of having a good understanding of how various adjustments affect your display and how important it is to calibrate.


----------



## Ken Ross

Widamere said:


> For Radtech and Ken, are you still using the settings from CNET (+3 to color), or have you found better settings?.......gonna need 'em friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yup, that's exactly what I'm using. I think you'll be happy with those. I've got Kevin Miller scheduled in a few weeks, so I'll have both his ISF calibration and the CNET settings.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Greetings, I just joined these forums yesterday, as I am in the market for a new HDTV to replace my now aging 52" XBR4, and while I have been looking through many forums, asking questions, and just overall doing research, I have come to the conclusion that this 70" Elite will be my next set. I noticed some familiar names here, which I assume are some of the same fine folks on another forum, (that will remain unmentioned) to you I say thank you for your help in making my decision a bit more clear. In any case what actually brings me here, is not the fact that I don't want to participate in those "other" forums, as I have always received some great advice there, and after reading through this thread, feel I would be getting some great advice/feedback here as well. I will however say that it does indeed seem a bit friendlier around these parts so to speak. Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself and say hello, and that I will very soon, be joining you happy Elite owners. I can't wait...


----------



## Theatredaz

* The Japanese engineers are not happy with the other colors errors that occur when they FIX the cyan error> this means that the cyan error is fixable> but at the cost of throwing other color settings off> by how much?> it's not clear, but that's the politics of engineers> somthing as little of a % off would negate fixing the error even at a minor discrepancy.

* It somewhat has to be fixed though.


----------



## Ken Ross

Theatredaz said:


> * The Japanese engineers are not happy with the other colors errors that occur when they FIX the cyan error> this means that the cyan error is fixable> but at the cost of throwing other color settings off> by how much?> it's not clear, but that's the politics of engineers> somthing as little of a % off would negate fixing the error even at a minor discrepancy.
> 
> * It somewhat has to be fixed though.


I can just imagine if they fix cyan and break any other color, no matter how slight. Talk about throwing red meat to the lions.

Seriously, I'd rather the error be in an area that is little seen, like cyan. We certainly don't want to trade a seldom seen error for one seen in far more instances.


----------



## rmongiovi

You say "an area that is little seen, like cyan" but I'm not sure you're thinking it through. Cyan isn't something that's encoded in the signal. YCbCr is luminance plus a blue and red chroma value. RGB is of course red, blue, and green.

When we test cyan, we're giving the display an input signal that calls for an equal balance of green and blue. That's the signal that ought to decode as cyan. Then we adjust the set so that it produces the correct shade of cyan. But that's only in a test pattern consisting of equal parts green and blue.

In a real world signal there are a lot more colors which are represented by inputs that have non-zero values for green and blue. They're the colors that surround the cyan point in the CIE color chart. If the cyan test shows you that in a certain range of stimuli, an equal green and blue input produces too much blue versus green in the screen's pixels, then I would expect *any* input that has non-zero values for green and blue to light up the blue pixels more than is called for. This "cyan" error is going to throw off the tint of every color that contains green and blue components by leaning in the blue direction.

Cyan is the test that makes the error obvious, and the further away from cyan you get on the color chart the less I'd expect it to be visible. But I believe it's erroneous to think it only affects colors that are precisely cyan.


----------



## trcnet

GeneWildersHair said:


> Greetings, I just joined these forums yesterday, as I am in the market for a new HDTV to replace my now aging 52" XBR4, and while I have been looking through many forums, asking questions, and just overall doing research, I have come to the conclusion that this 70" Elite will be my next set. I noticed some familiar names here, which I assume are some of the same fine folks on another forum, (that will remain unmentioned) to you I say thank you for your help in making my decision a bit more clear. In any case what actually brings me here, is not the fact that I don't want to participate in those "other" forums, as I have always received some great advice there, and after reading through this thread, feel I would be getting some great advice/feedback here as well. I will however say that it does indeed seem a bit friendlier around these parts so to speak. Anyway, just wanted to introduce myself and say hello, and that I will very soon, be joining you happy Elite owners. I can't wait...


Hello and congratulations!!! Hope you enjoy your Elite as much as I do mine. The Elite's PQ is without peer .... IMO.

best,
Tom


----------



## DJG

I have a question for those who registered their Elite online. All I've gotten from them is a generic e-mail acknowledging my registration, no name, serial #, nothing that actually links me to an official warranty.

Has anybody gotten different results from registering?


----------



## Ken Ross

Rmongiovi, I understand what you're saying, but in practical use, the only significant difference in overall color rendition between my Elite and Kuro (with no cyan error that I've ever heard of) is cyan. As you probably know, the only time I ever confirmed this was on the glass blocks on The Today Show. Now I'm sure if a similar object with similar coloring showed up, the same error would be there. But certainly in the programming I typically watch, it's just not a color I see. I don't even see the error in other colors with varying green & blue components. 

This is not to say the errors don't exist in some programming, but I continue to feel it's just not commonly seen. You well know I'm sensitive to the error and was the first to mention it, so it's not like I'm blind to it.

Beyond that, comparing the Kuro to the Elite countless times with a wide variety of programming, I just don't see anything significantly different beyond that one color and really, that one program. So for me at least, I just don't see any major color errors.


----------



## rmongiovi

So you agree with what I said but you just don't like the way I said it?

Was that really a necessary correction you felt compelled to make?


----------



## Mikey94025

rmongiovi said:


> So you agree with what I said but you just don't like the way I said it?
> 
> Was that really a necessary correction you felt compelled to make?


He legitimately commented on the overall visual effect (based on his experience) while your technical assessment included much stronger absolutes like the following:



rmongiovi said:


> This "cyan" error is going to throw off the tint of every color that contains green and blue components by leaning in the blue direction.


What matters more is the magnitude of such errors, whether they're visible to the human eye, etc.  So he was trying to bring that into perspective.


----------



## rmongiovi

I made no claim, positive or negative, about the visibility of the error. All I stated was that it is not limited to a single point in color space but rather has an effect over a larger area. I think it's up to each individual whether or not it's visible.


----------



## Ken Ross

rmongiovi said:


> So you agree with what I said but you just don't like the way I said it?
> 
> Was that really a necessary correction you felt compelled to make?


Actually I think Mikey pretty much nailed it. The magnitude of the ramifications as you expressed it and the reality as I actually see it, are two different things. This has nothing to do with being a 'fanboy' and I simply don't see it in the magnitude or frequency that you're hinting it might occur. I'm not arguing with your logic, but sometimes there's a wide gap between theory and reality.


----------



## Rukk

Hello all! I'm new to The "Shack" and am glad I came! Figured I'd kick my 1st day off by bragging (Lol)! I finished my taxes and can say with no hesitancy: I WILL BE GETTING MY 70" ELITE IN 2 WEEKS!  < Me so happy!! I intend to play the HELL out of it when I get it, in order to put the necessary hours on it prior to calibration (when I get to 75 hrs, the call to make an appointment goes down. I figure by the time the tech is scheduled to come, I'll have my 100). 

Now that THAT'S out of the way, it's time for community service! I've been lurking around the forums (this one in particular) and I've noted the concern over the cyan issue as well as the pulsing problem. In the ensuing weeks I will, of course check for these concerns and report back here. :T 

Once again, it's great to join the HTS fam and I look forward to joining the ELITE clan!


----------



## rmongiovi

Ken Ross said:


> Actually I think Mikey pretty much nailed it. The magnitude of the ramifications as you expressed it and the reality as I actually see it, are two different things.


If by "ramifications" you mean "enjoyment of the display", I must insist I said nothing about that. I was trying to stick to the facts as I perceive them.

Instruments have shown that the Elite does not decode blue-green correctly. It puts in too much blue and not enough green. That is a fact of measurement. It is logical, though only my opinion, that this error does not involve just the single point which we call "cyan" but is in fact a continuum. I conjecture that there is some point along the edge of the gamut in between green and blue where this error is at a maximum. I also conjecture that point of maximum error actually is cyan, but of course we have only one test point so I have no data. I also believe it is a fact that the D65 point has no error because it has no chroma component and therefore the color decoder error isn't involved. So that continuum I described has a maximum somewhere along the edge of the gamut and decreases in every direction as you head away from the point until it is at zero when you get to D65 (or any of the points that have no green or blue component. Of course, at some point the error passes below what is visible to the eye, but I have no idea where that point is and almost certainly varies depending on which direction on the color chart you head away from the maximum.

You will notice I made no claims about how visible it is. I *certainly* make no claims about how it impacts the enjoyment of watching the Elite. That's a judgement call that every person considering purchasing an Elite should make for himself or herself. It's just as untrue for you to guarantee a stranger that it's not a problem as it is for D-Nice to claim that it makes the display unpurchasable. Different eyes may be more or less sensitive to the error, and different personalities may make different judgements about how it impacts the viewing experience.

I simply believe the prospective buyer should be educated about the facts of what is going on so that they know what to look for and can make an intelligent decision on their own. That is, assuming they even care, which as we all know most don't.


----------



## Ken Ross

Rmongiovi, I actually agree with you 100%. The way you described the error and it's impact (or lack thereof) on viewing enjoyment was spot on IMO. As you say, prospective buyers should always check out all aspects of a display prior to purchase. 

The only thing I'll add, is that where this error is at its height (or within its immediate vicinity), the nature of the 'true' color is often unknown to the viewer. This makes the likelihood of recognizing the error less than if the error were in parts of the color spectrum that impacted every day objects (apples, oranges, grass etc.).


----------



## dsskid

Rukk said:


> Hello all! I'm new to The "Shack" and am glad I came! Figured I'd kick my 1st day off by bragging (Lol)! I finished my taxes and can say with no hesitancy: I WILL BE GETTING MY 70" ELITE IN 2 WEEKS!  < Me so happy!! I intend to play the HELL out of it when I get it, in order to put the necessary hours on it prior to calibration (when I get to 75 hrs, the call to make an appointment goes down. I figure by the time the tech is scheduled to come, I'll have my 100).
> 
> Now that THAT'S out of the way, it's time for community service! I've been lurking around the forums (this one in particular) and I've noted the concern over the cyan issue as well as the pulsing problem. In the ensuing weeks I will, of course check for these concerns and report back here. :T
> 
> Once again, it's great to join the HTS fam and I look forward to joining the ELITE clan!


Congratulations on your purchase :clap: and welcome to HTS :wave:


----------



## JimP

Ken Ross said:


> The only thing I'll add, is that where this error is at its height (or within its immediate vicinity), the nature of the 'true' color is often unknown to the viewer. This makes the likelihood of recognizing the error less than if the error were in parts of the color spectrum that impacted every day objects (apples, oranges, grass etc.).


Additionally, unless you have a reference display next to it, you are unlikely to even know what you are missing.

The question has to be asked is that "good enough" for a premium display with a premium price?

The answer has to reside with the buyer/viewer. Some people have absolutely no problem with it and would rebuy the display without a second thought. Others would say no way, absolutely not. There is no one right answer that would apply to everyone.

Now that's a very reasoned statement. Lets see how it get trashed.


----------



## Ken Ross

JimP said:


> Additionally, unless you have a reference display next to it, you are unlikely to even know what you are missing.
> 
> The question has to be asked is that "good enough" for a premium display with a premium price?
> 
> The answer has to reside with the buyer/viewer. Some people have absolutely no problem with it and would rebuy the display without a second thought. Others would say no way, absolutely not. There is no one right answer that would apply to everyone.
> 
> Now that's a very reasoned statement. Lets see how it get trashed.


Not from me Jim!


----------



## Radtech51

Widamere said:


> For Radtech and Ken, are you still using the settings from CNET (+3 to color), or have you found better settings?.......gonna need 'em friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Still using CNET's settings with (+3 color). Let us know how everything turns out! :sn:


----------



## DJG

DJG said:


> I have a question for those who registered their Elite online. All I've gotten from them is a generic e-mail acknowledging my registration, no name, serial #, nothing that actually links me to an official warranty.
> 
> Has anybody gotten different results from registering?


So, no other owners have registered their Elite? How odd ... :huh:


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> So, no other owners have registered their Elite? How odd ... :huh:


DJG, I actually had it done by the Elite service center when I was scheduling a replacement. I didn't do anything myself.


----------



## rolling green

DJG said:


> So, no other owners have registered their Elite? How odd ... :huh:


I registered on line just like you and as generic as it seems it works. When I called in regarding a power up issue they had my serial number and all the information they needed.


----------



## JimP

Ken Ross said:


> Not from me Jim!


Hey Ken,

I don't think there is anyone in hometheater land who doesn't know that. lol 

I do wish you the best and look forward to the next upgrade.


----------



## Ken Ross

Thanks Jim


----------



## Widamere

Side note, how do you post photos? :dontknow:


----------



## Weaselboy

DJG said:


> So, no other owners have registered their Elite? How odd ... :huh:


I registered online and got nothing but the confirmation email.


----------



## Weaselboy

Widamere said:


> +1 AZREOSpecialist. Side note, how do you post photos? :dontknow:



First upload the photo to a photo hosting site. I like Imgur, but there are many others. After uploading the photo to the web site copy the direct URL from the host site. It will usually look something like my second screen cap.

Now click the yellow envelope "insert image" icon above the reply box (my first screen cap) and paste the web host link in that box, then click okay. That will insert your hosted image link with the proper HTML IMG tags around it. Click Preview Post to make sure it looks like you want then Submit Reply to post. Done


----------



## DJG

rolling green said:


> I registered on line just like you and as generic as it seems it works. When I called in regarding a power up issue they had my serial number and all the information they needed.


OK, I guess that's how it works, just making sure . Thanks!


----------



## trcnet

rmongiovi said:


> You say "an area that is little seen, like cyan" but I'm not sure you're thinking it through. Cyan isn't something that's encoded in the signal. YCbCr is luminance plus a blue and red chroma value. RGB is of course red, blue, and green.
> 
> When we test cyan, we're giving the display an input signal that calls for an equal balance of green and blue. That's the signal that ought to decode as cyan. Then we adjust the set so that it produces the correct shade of cyan. But that's only in a test pattern consisting of equal parts green and blue.
> 
> In a real world signal there are a lot more colors which are represented by inputs that have non-zero values for green and blue. They're the colors that surround the cyan point in the CIE color chart. If the cyan test shows you that in a certain range of stimuli, an equal green and blue input produces too much blue versus green in the screen's pixels, then I would expect *any* input that has non-zero values for green and blue to light up the blue pixels more than is called for. This "cyan" error is going to throw off the tint of every color that contains green and blue components by leaning in the blue direction.
> 
> Cyan is the test that makes the error obvious, and the further away from cyan you get on the color chart the less I'd expect it to be visible. But I believe it's erroneous to think it only affects colors that are precisely cyan.


Hello rmongiovi. 

Thank you for you technical expertise in this discussion. I sincerely appreciate it ... and yes ... I do believe I can actually see what the measurements indicate in the Elite's depiction of this portion of the color palette. To me certain shades of blue just seem too blue, especially darker ones. 

Fortunately, I find the Elite's positive attributes to be so overwhelming I'm truly stunned and my mouth is agape every time I turn on the TV. I do hope Sharp is true to their word and release a FW fix for this color anomaly so that those who can't seem to put this issue aside can enjoy the Elite too. Because this thing is just freakinnnnn' awesome!!!!!

best,
Tom


----------



## aleicgrant

Sound and Vision arrived today and they have a review. Glowing thus far but havent finished reading.

And for those who are tuning in from avs you will find this a fair and POSITIVE bunch with little room for error when it comes to antics.

Now back to our story


----------



## mechman

aleicgrant said:


> This is where we need the facebook like button ;-)


How's your Elite?


----------



## aleicgrant

mechman said:


> How's your Elite?


Exceptional.except I do have the dreaded pulse in thx......


----------



## rothsss

My subjective impression is that the skin colors are off. I don't seem to get them right no matter what I do. I replaced a Samsung HLP with the Elite. I liked the skin colors on the DLP much better. I am hoping a firmware update will make things better.


----------



## Theatredaz

Mikey94025 said:


> rmongiovi said:
> 
> 
> 
> So you agree with what I said but you just don't like the way I said it?
> 
> Was that really a necessary correction you felt compelled to make?
> 
> 
> 
> He legitimately commented on the overall visual effect (based on his experience) while your technical assessment included much stronger absolutes like the following:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rmongiovi said:
> 
> 
> 
> This "cyan" error is going to throw off the tint of every color that contains green and blue components by leaning in the blue direction.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What matters more is the magnitude of such errors, whether they're visible to the human eye, etc. So he was trying to bring that into perspective.
Click to expand...



*The only thing I'll add, is that where this error is at its height (or within its immediate vicinity), the nature of the 'true' color is often unknown to the viewer. This makes the likelihood of recognizing the error less than if the error were in parts of the color spectrum that impacted every day objects (apples, oranges, grass etc.).*



* I agree with the above> if the color error is not as obvious as differentiating colors in our known spectrum of colors we can see optically> then the ability to defferentiate it with out own corrections is like searching for a needle in a haystack> or not noticable until the color mismatch can actually be seen and compared.

If people can see glass that appears a different tint or shade on a TV broadcast> it has to be a color that is closely related to the offset> or the maximum offset is more a mix of mutliple colors> Chinese math anyone?


----------



## Theatredaz

* Can anyone further explain the color issue?


----------



## Nuke76

DJG said:


> I have a question for those who registered their Elite online. All I've gotten from them is a generic e-mail acknowledging my registration, no name, serial #, nothing that actually links me to an official warranty.
> 
> Has anybody gotten different results from registering?


I registered my 70X5FD today by calling the help center. I got the same automated e-mail reply, so I guess that is consistent.

While registering, I told the rep that I wanted to make sure they add my voice to those owners who want to see the cyan and pulsing issues resolved and some kind of information provided to us by Sharp. I have cancelled my calibration twice pending the potential firmware fix.

The rep said that they are working on that and that "there are dealers with hundreds of customers" who are also anxious to get the issues resolved for their customers. Some more evidence that the efforts by Robert and others are having effect.

I am thrilled with the picture on my set. I have only seen pulsing once when playing with settings on a non-THX movie mode. I really don't have a problem with the cyan per se, I just want any "fixes" done before my calibration.


----------



## Widamere

well, its here and in....but so far, really noy happy with sharpness/focus of it. any advice :blink:


----------



## rmongiovi

Thanks Tom. I certainly wasn't trying to issue a judgement on the issue. In fact, while I'm not happy with an error like this in equipment at this price point, I personally do not find it to detract from the enjoyment of the picture.

What I objected to was the glib pronouncement that "the error is only in cyan which is an unusual color so it's not an issue." I think it is pervasive enough to at least warrant consideration before considering sinking this much cash into a TV.

Unfortunately, I've been engaging in another argument over in the highdefjunkies site about the theory of RGB primary colors. I also personally suspect that the cyan error is directly related to the extra yellow pixel that quattron brings to the table. I've yet to convince myself that the RGB encoding of color that we use, which is based on the three color receptors in the human eye, is compatible with accurate color reproduction when the extra yellow sub-pixel is included. I'm not certain they can actually fix the cyan error. That would be quite disappointing considering the claims being made for the Elite.
Roy


----------



## Nuke76

The only advice I can give for out of the box is to start with the CNET settings (they are easily found by searching). Many folks find they like this with the addition of IVC on Low amd color set to 3.

I hope you get it adjusted to your tastes. My own experience is that the skin tones are absolutely spot on with many sources. Make sure and try different sources as that can make a huge difference. The TV is so precise that we like to pick out the differences in color and sharpness between the cameras on some football telecasts.

Best of luck.

EDIT: I'm sorry Widamere, rooky mistake jumping in here. I searched for your previous posts and you have already done this research. I do hope you can get it adjusted.


----------



## DJG

rothsss said:


> My subjective impression is that the skin colors are off. I don't seem to get them right no matter what I do. I replaced a Samsung HLP with the Elite. I liked the skin colors on the DLP much better. I am hoping a firmware update will make things better.


What AV mode & settings are you using / have tried? The firmware update will not make a drastic color change. Sounds like something else is off ...


----------



## DJG

Widamere said:


> well, its here and in....but so far, really noy happy with sharpness/focus of it. any advice :blink:


Have you tried Sharpness at +1 or +2? I found that +2 makes a noticeable difference on my set.


----------



## rothsss

DJG said:


> What AV mode & settings are you using / have tried? The firmware update will not make a drastic color change. Sounds like something else is off ...


I started out with CNET settings in THX mode. I did not like them at all. Way too yellow. Now I have THX mode with IVC Advanced Low, Backlight +2, Brightness +2. Sometimes skin tones are too blue, sometimes too yellow, sometimes right on. My theory is that since the cyan problem varies by stimulus level, the problems that I see might vary with the stimulus level. I am planning to stop at VE some day and look at a set that is properly calibrated. Maybe this will give me some insight into whether something is wrong with my set or whether I am just very sensitive to the color issue.


----------



## DJG

Interesting. I tend towards the cool temperatures but I found the CNET settings very nice to start with.

I do notice differences in color pallette from movie to movie when flipping through the channels in DirecTV, but that's in the source. Some get downright weird :yikes:. For example, I found The Transporter DVD to have a fairly neutral pallette, but Transporter 2 had a definite yellow cast at times, and that was not the Elite but a Sony SXRD.

The fact I readily notice the changes and that many are very much what I would expect, especially things like news and talk shows that tend towards a non-stylistic color pallette, tell me I'm in a good color space.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Have you tried Sharpness at +1 or +2? I found that +2 makes a noticeable difference on my set.


I've done the same. Although you may see a slight bit of edge enhancement with test patterns at +1 or +2, I don't see any hint of that with actual program material. To me it just seems to add a bit of crispness that enhances the picture. Heresy perhaps, but it works for me.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Interesting. I tend towards the cool temperatures but I found the CNET settings very nice to start with.
> 
> I do notice differences in color pallette from movie to movie when flipping through the channels in DirecTV, but that's in the source. Some get downright weird :yikes:. For example, I found The Transporter DVD to have a fairly neutral pallette, but Transporter 2 had a definite yellow cast at times, and that was not the Elite but a Sony SXRD.
> 
> The fact I readily notice the changes and that many are very much what I would expect, especially things like news and talk shows that tend towards a non-stylistic color pallette, tell me I'm in a good color space.


Yup, you nailed it DJG. So much depends on the source material. Some movies and even a few TV shows use that stylized approach and thus a yellowish cast is probably what was intended. 

To me the best test, as you indicated, is to watch a number of live TV shows or newscasts. Some of the best live HD I've ever seen is on the new set of the CBS Early Show. Between the fantastic lighting in the studio, the set itself and the great calibration of the cameras, the picture is nothing short of draw dropping! Now if anyone is still seeing a yellowish cast in these live shows, then there's something wrong with your calibration. the color should be very neutral.


----------



## Ken Ross

Just finished reading the new issue of Sound & Vision and, not surprisingly, another reviewer described the Elite as having 'excellent color accuracy' and 'pitch perfect skin tones'. Not a single mention of the cyan color error. Just another indication of how unnoticeable this is in the scheme of things.

Not to say it shouldn't be corrected, but in the totality of the picture, it's easily missed.


----------



## Widamere

So far we have watched "The Fighter" and "Top Gun". Sharpness it at +4 and using Elite Pure, THX seemed kinda blah. Movies look very good, but watching some live basketball on ESPN and and the 49ers Giants game from the DVR I really am not happy with the focus/crispness of sports. I had a samsung 55B8000 and sports looked much better....but then I had it for awhile and had it dialed in :sn: Guess I will have to keep playing with it :innocent:


----------



## Widamere

Tnx for your help Weaselboy:bigsmile: I am gonna try and post a photo tomorrow


----------



## rmongiovi

I'd love to know how to get "pitch perfect skin tones" out of my Elite. I'm calibrating with an i1 pro, which is a spectrophotometer and should be able to deal with the Elite, and although the calibration number look great skin tone tends towards yellow.

I'm not quite sure what's going on. I hope the professionals jump in before too long and are willing to share a couple of tips....


----------



## Widamere

LOL, wife got tired of my tinkering and left the room. Watching Top Gun w/the CNET settings posted really does look good!!!!!!!!! I take back my previous statement for movies. I will post settings for sports under Elite Pure once I get it dialed in. :T


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Widamere said:


> LOL, wife got tired of my tinkering and left the room. Watching Top Gun w/the CNET settings posted really does look good!!!!!!!!! I take back my previous statement for movies. I will post settings for sports under Elite Pure once I get it dialed in. :T


Lol, haven't got my Elite yet, but I will be upsetting the wife very soon with my "tinkering"... after all these years she still hasn't gotten used to my tinkering with all of my electronics. Before I had my current TV calibrated,I had always preferred a cooler picture, but once calibrated, I fell in love with the Warmer color, looked a lot more realistic. Now when I switch to three settings I used to like, it literally makes me cringe at the site of that mess.lol... Well good luck with the tinkering, and have fun!


----------



## DYAUS

Widamere said:


> So far we have watched "The Fighter" and "Top Gun". Sharpness it at +4 and using Elite Pure, THX seemed kinda blah. Movies look very good, but watching some live basketball on ESPN and and the 49ers Giants game from the DVR I really am not happy with the focus/crispness of sports. I had a samsung 55B8000 and sports looked much better....but then I had it for awhile and had it dialed in :sn: Guess I will have to keep playing with it :innocent:



Funny cause I also upgraded from the 55B8000 and thought the exact same thing!


----------



## DYAUS

But I am still more than satisfied with my 70X5FD!


----------



## lcaillo

Ken Ross said:


> Yup, you nailed it DJG. So much depends on the source material. Some movies and even a few TV shows use that stylized approach and thus a yellowish cast is probably what was intended.
> 
> To me the best test, as you indicated, is to watch a number of live TV shows or newscasts. Some of the best live HD I've ever seen is on the new set of the CBS Early Show. Between the fantastic lighting in the studio, the set itself and the great calibration of the cameras, the picture is nothing short of draw dropping! Now if anyone is still seeing a yellowish cast in these live shows, then there's something wrong with your calibration. the color should be very neutral.


Color variance between sources is often more noticed when the saturation is too high on the display. Gamut error and compensation with luminance get worse when you push saturation to the limits of gamut. It is analogous to frequency response in audio. An amp might have quite flat response at low levels and limits at the extremes when pushed to maximum power. 

One should not be surprised with variations due simply to lousy production quality. Relatively few video "engineers" involved in production really understand how to get color fidelity through the production and distribution chain. The quality of the displays today make it more likely to see the differences, and the differences are greater than ever. Combine that with a vast majority of users with their saturation set too high on the displays and the result is every channel looking very different in many systems.


----------



## buzzard767

rothsss said:


> My subjective impression is that the skin colors are off. I don't seem to get them right no matter what I do. I replaced a Samsung HLP with the Elite. I liked the skin colors on the DLP much better. I am hoping a firmware update will make things better.


If there is an independent calibrator near you, make a deal to have him calibrate your display now with a minimal charge follow up after (if) a fix is implemented.




rmongiovi said:


> I'd love to know how to get "pitch perfect skin tones" out of my Elite. I'm calibrating with an i1 pro, which is a spectrophotometer and should be able to deal with the Elite, and although the calibration number look great skin tone tends towards yellow.
> 
> I'm not quite sure what's going on. I hope the professionals jump in before too long and are willing to share a couple of tips....


If you haven't done so, go back and check a color decoder pattern. I've seen the same issue on Samsung D8000s and Mitsubishi LaserVues. Adjusting the Color and Tint controls as a final step works on both of them so perhaps the same applies to the Elite. I do not make the adjustments by minimizing red errors with a meter rather I use the blue method visually.


----------



## rab-byte

That's why blue only mode is so important. I wish they had included this feature in the elite. Filters are not 100%


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Widamere said:


> +1 AZREOSpecialist. Side note, how do you post photos? :dontknow:


I don't see a photo upload button, but you can get a free Photobucket account, upload there, and include a link here to the photo. Anyone else know?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

DJG said:


> So, no other owners have registered their Elite? How odd ... :huh:





Weaselboy said:


> I registered online and got nothing but the confirmation email.


Yes, all you get is the confirmation email.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

rothsss said:


> My subjective impression is that the skin colors are off. I don't seem to get them right no matter what I do. I replaced a Samsung HLP with the Elite. I liked the skin colors on the DLP much better. I am hoping a firmware update will make things better.


Are you routing your components through an AVR? If so, is your AVR's HDMI set to "pass-thru"? If not, you may be experiencing a washed out picture due to color space incompatibility. Also, make sure your blu-ray player is set to output in YCbCr. If you have a cable or satellite box, set it to YCbCr if that's possible - I think it is with DirecTV units, but not with Dish.

I also had a Samsung DLP prior to the Elite and in my opinion the Elite's skin tones are simply amazing. My Sammy DLP was ISF calibrated by Dave Abrams w/ Avical. Compared to the Elite, the DLP skin tones looked almost sunburned or as if people were wearing pancake makeup. The Elite shows a much truer picture in my opinion.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Widamere said:


> well, its here and in....but so far, really noy happy with sharpness/focus of it. any advice :blink:


Make sure you are watching a good 1080i/p HD source and set Sharpness to +3.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

The issue I have regarding this color error is the almost singular focus put on it by some people (not you). While there may be an issue with cyan that may or may not relate to the yellow sub-pixel unique to the Quattron panel, the Quattron panel brings compensating goodness - richer, brighter yellows and golds. Obviously those rich yellows and golds come at the expense of cyan accuracy - can we live with that? Personally, my eye is much more sensitive to yellow than cyan, and this TV definitely delivers a better yellow color than any other TV I've seen. This may also be why I find the skin tones on this TV to be so amazingly buttery smooth and accurate.

Question - in calibrating our Elite displays, are we also taming the yellow sub-pixel in order to fit a certain calibration standard or color gamut? It would seem that the TV maker and videophiles have incompatible goals - the TV maker wants to expand the color gamut while the videophile wants to calibrate a higher gamut TV to fit a more limited color space. Isn't doing this, at least in part, negating the benefits of an expanded gamut Quattron panel? How can we calibrate this TV and still retain those rich yellows and golds?



rmongiovi said:


> Thanks Tom. I certainly wasn't trying to issue a judgement on the issue. In fact, while I'm not happy with an error like this in equipment at this price point, I personally do not find it to detract from the enjoyment of the picture.
> 
> What I objected to was the glib pronouncement that "the error is only in cyan which is an unusual color so it's not an issue." I think it is pervasive enough to at least warrant consideration before considering sinking this much cash into a TV.
> 
> Unfortunately, I've been engaging in another argument over in the highdefjunkies site about the theory of RGB primary colors. I also personally suspect that the cyan error is directly related to the extra yellow pixel that quattron brings to the table. I've yet to convince myself that the RGB encoding of color that we use, which is based on the three color receptors in the human eye, is compatible with accurate color reproduction when the extra yellow sub-pixel is included. I'm not certain they can actually fix the cyan error. That would be quite disappointing considering the claims being made for the Elite.
> Roy


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Widamere said:


> So far we have watched "The Fighter" and "Top Gun". Sharpness it at +4 and using Elite Pure, THX seemed kinda blah. Movies look very good, but watching some live basketball on ESPN and and the 49ers Giants game from the DVR I really am not happy with the focus/crispness of sports. I had a samsung 55B8000 and sports looked much better....but then I had it for awhile and had it dialed in :sn: Guess I will have to keep playing with it :innocent:


I would recommend Dynamic Fixed (aka "torch" mode) for sports. I know its heresy to suggest such a thing, but the image is truly "in your face" like nobody's business. If you're trying to impress your friends, that's the mode to use during a football game. Having said that, I find THX to be better than all of the modes if you do the following: Use the CNET settings, change sharpness to +3, Color +4, IVC Medium. I also have Film Mode set to middle/medium and FluidMotion ON. This gives me great motion tracking and punchy contrast similar to Elite Pure. Forgive me if my function labels are off - I don't have the TV menu in front of me. IVC is bumped up to Medium to compensate for the slight dimming caused by FluidMotion.


----------



## mechman

AZREOSpecialist said:


> I don't see a photo upload button, but you can get a free Photobucket account, upload there, and include a link here to the photo. Anyone else know?


Upload the picture to the Shack's Gallery. Then while you are replying to a post click on the 'MY PHOTOS' text area at the top of the 'reply to'/post toolbar.

The Gallery is up at the top right.


----------



## rab-byte

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Question - in calibrating our Elite displays, are we also taming the yellow sub-pixel in order to fit a certain calibration standard or color gamut? It would seem that the TV maker and videophiles have incompatible goals - the TV maker wants to expand the color gamut while the videophile wants to calibrate a higher gamut TV to fit a more limited color space. Isn't doing this, at least in part, negating the benefits of an expanded gamut Quattron panel? How can we calibrate this TV and still retain those rich yellows and golds?


Good question. Calibration is a process of making a display adhere to a set of standards. Those standards are not set buy ISF (some are set buy THX) the idea is to bring consistency to video.

The reason that the expanded color gamut is a problem right now is that there is little if ANY contend available in deep color. Because of this the expanded color gamut is infact not accurately reproducing the original content. 

I have no doubt that at some point we will see more content available in deep color. Maybe a grey scale that goes from 0-512 instead of 0-256 (16-235 for TV) and RGB to match. But right now to produce displays that try to cover such a large gamut but still read and decode as a lover gamut simply do more harm them good. 

Just my opinion.


----------



## rothsss

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Are you routing your components through an AVR? If so, is your AVR's HDMI set to "pass-thru"? If not, you may be experiencing a washed out picture due to color space incompatibility. Also, make sure your blu-ray player is set to output in YCbCr. If you have a cable or satellite box, set it to YCbCr if that's possible - I think it is with DirecTV units, but not with Dish.
> 
> I also had a Samsung DLP prior to the Elite and in my opinion the Elite's skin tones are simply amazing. My Sammy DLP was ISF calibrated by Dave Abrams w/ Avical. Compared to the Elite, the DLP skin tones looked almost sunburned or as if people were wearing pancake makeup. The Elite shows a much truer picture in my opinion.


My Samsung DLP was ISF calibrated. My source is a Series 3 Tivo in pass thru-mode.


----------



## rmongiovi

Deep color gives you more color resolution so that banding is less of an issue, but it doesn't by itself increase the gamut.

As long as the image is recorded using the rec.709 standard the gamut is built into the encoding of the image. TV manufacturers can expand the gamut that the display can produce, but any expansion is color made up by the display device and not present in the recorded signal. It's fantasy. If you like that, that's cool. But it's the antithesis of calibration. The idea behind calibration is for the device to accurately reproduce the recorded image.

For the people having trouble with skin tones, I made a discovery last night while playing around. Although I had an excellent grey scale with average delta-E below 1, including 100% white, my contrast setting was too high for the color decoder. In THX mode I have to set my contrast down to 30 in order for a 100% red pattern not to clip.


----------



## AZguy

Well after going to CES 2012 and seeing all the TVs that are coming out THIS year(we'll see if oled really come out later this year) I decided to go with the 70" Elite, the VT50 wasn't really a big jump from my VT30. I just ordered my 70" from Value Electronics and should ship Monday, BIG thank you to Robert for everything you have done for me.

Aaron,


----------



## aleicgrant

AZguy said:


> Well after going to CES 2012 and seeing all the TVs that are coming out THIS year(we'll see if oled really come out later this year) I decided to go with the 70" Elite, the VT50 wasn't really a big jump from my VT30. I just ordered my 70" from Value Electronics and should ship Monday, BIG thank you to Robert for everything you have done for me.
> 
> Aaron,


Congrats


----------



## lcaillo

AZREOSpecialist said:


> The issue I have regarding this color error is the almost singular focus put on it by some people (not you). While there may be an issue with cyan that may or may not relate to the yellow sub-pixel unique to the Quattron panel, the Quattron panel brings compensating goodness - richer, brighter yellows and golds. Obviously those rich yellows and golds come at the expense of cyan accuracy - can we live with that? Personally, my eye is much more sensitive to yellow than cyan, and this TV definitely delivers a better yellow color than any other TV I've seen. This may also be why I find the skin tones on this TV to be so amazingly buttery smooth and accurate.
> 
> Question - in calibrating our Elite displays, are we also taming the yellow sub-pixel in order to fit a certain calibration standard or color gamut? It would seem that the TV maker and videophiles have incompatible goals - the TV maker wants to expand the color gamut while the videophile wants to calibrate a higher gamut TV to fit a more limited color space. Isn't doing this, at least in part, negating the benefits of an expanded gamut Quattron panel? How can we calibrate this TV and still retain those rich yellows and golds?


There is no inherent reason that adding a yellow pixel should limit accuracy of cyan. If they are mucking it up in their color decoder that is possible, but adding the yellow pixel, at least at the level of gamut, should simply allow for greater saturation in yellows and greater contrast. Better yellow is a term that needs to be qualified. Just because yellow is more saturated or brighter does not mean that it is better.

I would agree that the degree of error in the cyan that I have seen reported is not likely meaningful to most users. Most will use the set in a state with far more color error in other areas anyway. When calibrated, the error is not that bad. Not perfect, but a minor matter, relative to the error in most other products on the market.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Interesting. I tend towards the cool temperatures but I found the CNET settings very nice to start with.
> 
> I do notice differences in color pallette from movie to movie when flipping through the channels in DirecTV, but that's in the source. Some get downright weird :yikes:. For example, I found The Transporter DVD to have a fairly neutral pallette, but Transporter 2 had a definite yellow cast at times, and that was not the Elite but a Sony SXRD.
> 
> The fact I readily notice the changes and that many are very much what I would expect, especially things like news and talk shows that tend towards a non-stylistic color pallette, tell me I'm in a good color space.


We just got back from the movies tonight. We saw Haywire, and half of that movie was shot with a decided yellowish cast. My wife turned to me and said 'ANOTHER yellow movie???'. These guys get on this stylized kick and they all follow each other lock step. So people really need to be careful about their source when saying a given program/movie looked too yellow. There are just so many of these stylized productions, I find them redundant and somewhat irritating.


----------



## Ken Ross

Widamere said:


> So far we have watched "The Fighter" and "Top Gun". Sharpness it at +4 and using Elite Pure, THX seemed kinda blah. Movies look very good, but watching some live basketball on ESPN and and the 49ers Giants game from the DVR I really am not happy with the focus/crispness of sports. I had a samsung 55B8000 and sports looked much better....but then I had it for awhile and had it dialed in :sn: Guess I will have to keep playing with it :innocent:


You did turn off the ambient light sensor, right?


----------



## aleicgrant

Ken Ross said:


> You did turn off the ambient light sensor, right?


Lets also remember fox still has some 720p feeds for football. The 49rs game was one of them. The Pats game on cbs was flawless


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

lcaillo said:


> There is no inherent reason that adding a yellow pixel should limit accuracy of cyan. If they are mucking it up in their color decoder that is possible, but adding the yellow pixel, at least at the level of gamut, should simply allow for greater saturation in yellows and greater contrast. Better yellow is a term that needs to be qualified. Just because yellow is more saturated or brighter does not mean that it is better.
> 
> I would agree that the degree of error in the cyan that I have seen reported is not likely meaningful to most users. Most will use the set in a state with far more color error in other areas anyway. When calibrated, the error is not that bad. Not perfect, but a minor matter, relative to the error in most other products on the market.


^^^ the most reasoned statement I've seen regarding the cyan error. Thank you.


----------



## trcnet

I have found with my settings (cnet) 'OPC' being on can kill the wow factor of the picture. 'OPC' is the name of the light sensor setting to which Ken is referring. Make sure 'OPC' is off.

Hope you find the settings that bring out the best in the Elite's PQ for you.

enjoy,
Tom


----------



## cdiez58

Quick question ....the cnet setting were done on a 60...do they work equally well on the 70"? thx charlie


----------



## DJG

Yes they do. At least in my 70 they give a great image, not that you can't tweak to improve it for your specific set / environment.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

trcnet said:


> I have found with my settings (cnet) 'OPC' being on can kill the wow factor of the picture. 'OPC' is the name of the light sensor setting to which Ken is referring. Make sure 'OPC' is off.
> 
> Hope you find the settings that bring out the best in the Elite's PQ for you.
> 
> enjoy,
> Tom


OPC can be a good feature if you set it properly. In the advanced video settings there is something called "OPC Range". Here you can define exactly how dim and how bright the picture gets on the low and high ends. This is very useful. In a bright room, for instance, OPC can crank up the backlight on your TV to exceed what you've input into the video settings. So if you don't like OPC messing with the picture in a dim room, set the low end of OPC Range to 0.


----------



## Robert Zohn

AZREOSpecialist ^^ Thanks for the very interesting trick.

-Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

lcaillo said:


> There is no inherent reason that adding a yellow pixel should limit accuracy of cyan. If they are mucking it up in their color decoder that is possible, but adding the yellow pixel, at least at the level of gamut, should simply allow for greater saturation in yellows and greater contrast. Better yellow is a term that needs to be qualified. Just because yellow is more saturated or brighter does not mean that it is better.
> 
> I would agree that the degree of error in the cyan that I have seen reported is not likely meaningful to most users. Most will use the set in a state with far more color error in other areas anyway. When calibrated, the error is not that bad. Not perfect, but a minor matter, relative to the error in most other products on the market.





AZREOSpecialist said:


> ^^^ the most reasoned statement I've seen regarding the cyan error. Thank you.


Yes and excellent explanation lcaillo. I would add that the cyan error is not across the entire IRE range, it occurs on about 1/2 of the luminance range, the low (dark) end of the scale. Most importantly, you can't really se the teal color issue unless the content playing has a lot of the cyan mix to demonstrate where the error resides and you have at least one other perfectly calibrated panel butt next to the Elite.

I won't call it a non-issue, but it's close to being a non-issue, especially considering how hard it would be to be bartered by it in real world TV watching. However, I want it fixed and still believe we're likely to see it done in a firmware update shortly.

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

AZREOSpecialist said:


> ^^^ the most reasoned statement I've seen regarding the cyan error. Thank you.


I'll second that!


----------



## mjw

lcaillo said:


> There is no inherent reason that adding a yellow pixel should limit accuracy of cyan.


I was thinking a bit more about this. In a 3-color TV 33% of the area of the screen is devoted to producing Red, 33% to Green and 33% to Blue. In a Quattron TV it's 25% Red, 25% Green, 25% Blue, 25% Yellow. Now Yellow is just a combination of Green and Red, but contributes little if any light intensity in the Blue part of the spectrum. 

In an LCD TV, white light comes from the TV backlight(s) and is filtered to allow R, G, B or Y (R+G) like to pass through to the viewer. The total area of the screen that can pass through light with a blue wavelength is 100*(33-25)/33 = 25% smaller in a Quattron TV than in a regular 3 color pixel TV (for the same sized TV). So for the same amount of white light coming from the backlight, a Quattron TV can pass through a higher intensity in the Red/Yellow/Green spectrum but a lower intensity in the Blue spectrum.

I'm wondering whether this might be hurting the color accuracy near the blue wavelengths on the Elite? Cyan requires Blue plus Green, and no Red. So in the case of Cyan you can't use the yellow pixel to help add intensity, you have to use Blue and Green pixels only. On a regular TV you could use 2*33 = 66% of the pixel area, but on a Quattron you can only use 2*25% = 50% of the area.

I suppose Sharp could compensate for this effect by making the Blue pixel larger than the others, but as far as I know it's the same size.


----------



## DJG

I would venture that the individual areas is not a consideration, as they are interpreted by the eye as a single unit combining the relative brightness of the four colors, unless your nose is kind of pressed to the screen ...

And a +1 for lcaillo :T


----------



## DJG

Ken Ross said:


> We just got back from the movies tonight. We saw Haywire, and half of that movie was shot with a decided yellowish cast. My wife turned to me and said 'ANOTHER yellow movie???'. These guys get on this stylized kick and they all follow each other lock step. So people really need to be careful about their source when saying a given program/movie looked too yellow. There are just so many of these stylized productions, I find them redundant and somewhat irritating.


Dang! I was looking forward to that movie - I hope the content makes it worth the yellow cast.

Hmmm ... Maybe we need "Normal" and "Bluish" ISF settings to compensate for the yellow-cast movies ...


----------



## rmongiovi

mjw said:


> I was thinking a bit more about this. In a 3-color TV 33% of the area of the screen is devoted to producing Red, 33% to Green and 33% to Blue. In a Quattron TV it's 25% Red, 25% Green, 25% Blue, 25% Yellow. Now Yellow is just a combination of Green and Red, but contributes little if any light intensity in the Blue part of the spectrum.
> 
> In an LCD TV, white light comes from the TV backlight(s) and is filtered to allow R, G, B or Y (R+G) like to pass through to the viewer. The total area of the screen that can pass through light with a blue wavelength is 100*(33-25)/33 = 25% smaller in a Quattron TV than in a regular 3 color pixel TV (for the same sized TV). So for the same amount of white light coming from the backlight, a Quattron TV can pass through a higher intensity in the Red/Yellow/Green spectrum but a lower intensity in the Blue spectrum.
> 
> I'm wondering whether this might be hurting the color accuracy near the blue wavelengths on the Elite? Cyan requires Blue plus Green, and no Red. So in the case of Cyan you can't use the yellow pixel to help add intensity, you have to use Blue and Green pixels only. On a regular TV you could use 2*33 = 66% of the pixel area, but on a Quattron you can only use 2*25% = 50% of the area.
> 
> I suppose Sharp could compensate for this effect by making the Blue pixel larger than the others, but as far as I know it's the same size.


I was making a related argument over on the highdefjunkies site. The rec.709 standard used to encode the video signal assumes using R+G rather than a yellow pixel. Since G stimulates both the green and blue cones in the eye, there's a certain amount of blue stimulation built into the computed G value. Light from the yellow part of the spectrum stimulates the blue cones much less than green light does. When Sharp reduces the R+G values to move that stimulus over to the yellow part of the spectrum they are removing stimulus to the blue cones that the rec.709 standard expects to be there. They would then have to compensate for that by increasing the luminance of the blue sub-pixel.

Since the rec.709 standard doesn't actually encode yellow per se, there has to be some sort of computation going on to decide how much of R+G to move to yellow. This computation has to work for all RGB values that have non-zero R and G values including all those that also have non-zero B values. Without knowing how they do that it's difficult to know if that computation can be accurate for all possible values.

I think it's important to note here that using RGB in the camera and in the display device is based on an analysis of human visual perception. The camera is recording an image composed of a continuous spectrum of light which stimulates our cones in a particular fashion. By knowing how that continuous spectrum stimulates our cones, they can design an encoding the reproduces that stimulus using only red plus green plus blue. If the stimulus is equivalent the eye cannot distinguish any difference between the original image and the reproduction.


----------



## lcaillo

Who knows what the computations are, but remember that most sets start out with far too much blue.


----------



## Widamere

Here she is.....http://s1167.photobucket.com/albums/q630/Widamere/ 
now, lets see if it worked


----------



## Widamere

I would recommend Dynamic Fixed (aka "torch" mode) for sports. I know its heresy to suggest such a thing, but the image is truly "in your face" like nobody's business. If you're trying to impress your friends, that's the mode to use during a football game. Having said that, I find THX to be better than all of the modes if you do the following: Use the CNET settings, change sharpness to +3, Color +4, IVC Medium. I also have Film Mode set to middle/medium and FluidMotion ON. This gives me great motion tracking and punchy contrast similar to Elite Pure. Forgive me if my function labels are off - I don't have the TV menu in front of me. IVC is bumped up to Medium to compensate for the slight dimming caused by FluidMotion.



Tnx, I'll try the Cnet settings w/ your adjustments. As far as worrying about impressing others....if I get the picture to where I want, willing to bet others will too:bigsmile:
hmmmmmm, how to you guys copy so that it is in another box....you, know, looks like you are replying to something posted earlier. This looks like the first part was written by me........Kinda clueless RE: computers )


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Widamere said:


> I would recommend Dynamic Fixed (aka "torch" mode) for sports. I know its heresy to suggest such a thing, but the image is truly "in your face" like nobody's business. If you're trying to impress your friends, that's the mode to use during a football game. Having said that, I find THX to be better than all of the modes if you do the following: Use the CNET settings, change sharpness to +3, Color +4, IVC Medium. I also have Film Mode set to middle/medium and FluidMotion ON. This gives me great motion tracking and punchy contrast similar to Elite Pure. Forgive me if my function labels are off - I don't have the TV menu in front of me. IVC is bumped up to Medium to compensate for the slight dimming caused by FluidMotion.
> 
> 
> 
> Tnx, I'll try the Cnet settings w/ your adjustments. As far as worrying about impressing others....if I get the picture to where I want, willing to bet others will too:bigsmile:
> hmmmmmm, how to you guys copy so that it is in another box....you, know, looks like you are replying to something posted earlier. This looks like the first part was written by me........Kinda clueless RE: computers )


Correction to the above - Film Mode is set to Advanced (low).


----------



## aleicgrant

Can someone put up all the cnet settings with the additional adustments so we have them all in one place

Also. Why no pq adjustment when using the vudu app


----------



## cdiez58

Widamere said:


> I would recommend Dynamic Fixed (aka "torch" mode) for sports. I know its heresy to suggest such a thing, but the image is truly "in your face" like nobody's business. If you're trying to impress your friends, that's the mode to use during a football game. Having said that, I find THX to be better than all of the modes if you do the following: Use the CNET settings, change sharpness to +3, Color +4, IVC Medium. I also have Film Mode set to middle/medium and FluidMotion ON. This gives me great motion tracking and punchy contrast similar to Elite Pure. Forgive me if my function labels are off - I don't have the TV menu in front of me. IVC is bumped up to Medium to compensate for the slight dimming caused by FluidMotion.
> 
> Tnx, I'll try the Cnet settings w/ your adjustments. As far as worrying about impressing others....if I get the picture to where I want, willing to bet others will too:bigsmile:
> hmmmmmm, how to you guys copy so that it is in another box....you, know, looks like you are replying to something posted earlier. This looks like the first part was written by me........Kinda clueless RE: computers )


I always use dynamic fixed for football..


----------



## DJG

Widamere said:


> Here she is.....http://s1167.photobucket.com/albums/q630/Widamere/
> now, lets see if it worked


Why, she ... she ... she looks just like mine!!!! :yikes:

(Yes, my TVs are feminine, because they make such good company )


Widamere said:


> ...
> hmmmmmm, how to you guys copy so that it is in another box....you, know, looks like you are replying to something posted earlier. This looks like the first part was written by me........Kinda clueless RE: computers )


You use the Quote button thinghy under the post ...


----------



## mechman

aleicgrant said:


> Can someone put up all the cnet settings with the additional adustments so we have them all in one place
> 
> Also. Why no pq adjustment when using the vudu app


cnet settings - I will put this in the first post as well.




> Below you'll find the settings we found best for viewing the Sharp Elite PRO-60X5FD in a dim room via the HDMI input at 1080p/24 resolution. Your settings may vary depending on source, room conditions, and personal preference. Check out the Picture settings and calibration FAQ for more information.
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9996461-1.html
> 
> --Picture Settings menu
> 
> AV MODE: MOVIE THX
> Intelligent Variable Contrast: Local Dimming On
> OPC: Off
> Backlight: +1
> Contrast: +32
> Brightness: +1
> Color: 0
> Tint: 0
> Sharpness: 0
> 
> --Advanced sub-menu
> 
> C.M.S. -Hue
> R: 0
> Y: +3
> G: +4
> C: +2
> B: -3
> M: +3
> 
> C.M.S. -Saturation
> R: +3
> Y: -2
> G: -1
> C: +1
> B: +1
> M: 0
> 
> C.M.S. -Value
> R: +2
> Y: +2
> G: 0
> C: -12
> B: +3
> M: -2
> 
> Color Temp sub-menu:
> Color Temp: Low [grayed out when 10 Point is "On]
> 
> [10 Point Setting Off]
> R Gain (LO): +1
> G Gain (LO): -5
> B Gain (LO): -3
> R Gain (HI): +2
> G Gain (HI): -4
> B Gain (HI): -4
> 
> [10 Point Setting On]
> Position +1: R Gain +2, G Gain 0, B Gain 0
> Position +2: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -3
> Position +3: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
> Position +4: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -2
> Position +5: R Gain 0, G Gain -4, B Gain -4
> Position +6: R Gain 0, G Gain -3, B Gain -5
> Position +7: R Gain -2, G Gain -5, B Gain -5
> Position +8: R Gain -1, G Gain -6, B Gain -6
> Position +9: R Gain 0, G Gain -5, B Gain +5
> Position +10: R Gain 0, G Gain 0, B Gain -1
> 
> Motion Enhancement: 120Hz Low
> Quad Pixel Plus: Off
> Active Contrast: Off
> Gamma Adjustment: 0
> Film Mode: Off
> Digital Noise Reduction: Off
> Monochrome: Off
> Range of OPC: [any]


----------



## aleicgrant

mechman said:


> cnet settings - I will put this in the first post as well.


Is everyone opting to modify the cnet with these settings " change sharpness to +3, Color +4, IVC Medium. I also have Film Mode set to middle/medium and FluidMotion ON"


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

I never had to use anything more than 120 low. I hate that SOE effect. Dynamic is too bright and looks so unnatural. Yea it's eye candy for those that don't know any better because they're used to the Samsungs bleeding at best buys, but you Normally buy this TV for reference. Obviously, you're entitled to how you want to view your tv, but I can't simply understand why spending the money we are to get such so so picture..


----------



## Rukk

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I never had to use anything more than 120 low. I hate that SOE effect. Dynamic is too bright and looks so unnatural. Yea it's eye candy for those that don't know any better because they're used to the Samsungs bleeding at best buys, but you Normally buy this TV for reference. Obviously, you're entitled to how you want to view your tv, but I can't simply understand why spending the money we are to get such so so picture..
> 
> This is SO true! In an attempt to convince myself that I like the PQ on the giant Sharps (I was in the market to look for a replacement for my 70"Sony SXRD so I had to find something at least as big screen wise)I went to a local Frys' with Cnet settings. I found one of the 3 higher end models which had a dedicated blu-ray player connected side by side with another 70" Sharp. I tweaked the settings, played a few reference level discs and even though the picture looked much better than it did prior to the tweaking, I still wasn't sold. This couple with a sales rep comes over to view the sets and I remember the lady saying she liked the PQ on the untouched set (she didn't know I played with the settings on the tv I was observing). After turning away (to roll my eyes) I then told the couple I was messing with the settings in order to get "my" set to look like it would if it were home. I then put the tv back to it's default "bright/vibrant/vivid" (whatever) mode and the lady then shouted "that's more like it"! :rubeyes:


----------



## DJG

So you're not refering to the Sharp Elite, but to the 730's or something else?


----------



## rab-byte

^^^
Customers like the vividness of TVs in dynamic because of the lighting conditions in the store. With every other TV looking so bright a calibrated TV will look dull to the untrained eye. 

Samsung more then any other company has this figured out. 

As much as we (enthusiasts) would like the displays to be factory calibrated (or at least close) the simple fact is those settings don't sell TVs. 

Shopping in store is quite subjective. You're given many options, all wrong, and asked to pick what you like better. Everyone wants a bright display with strong contrast. The problem is when those two factors harm gradiance and color accuracy/saturation.

Edit: I mean for a store you need 70+ lamberts to even approach nessasary brightness for a store.


----------



## trcnet

aleicgrant said:


> Is everyone opting to modify the cnet with these settings " change sharpness to +3, Color +4, IVC Medium. I also have Film Mode set to middle/medium and FluidMotion ON"


Not too much here. I put color up to 3 and 'Color Plus' on. That's about it. I find the effect 'Color Plus' has is EXTREMELY subtle and I would be hard pressed to tell if it is on or off on most scenes. I sometimes do mess around with upping the sharpness 1 or 2 notches, but even that while it's a little more eye catching I find it doesn't look as accurate or natural. I also was trying to lower the back-light 1 notch and/or the brightness to get even better blacks, but I find it takes away some shadow detail. 



I really feel DK hit the nail on the head with these settings except for having to up the color, and even there his color setting looks to be more natural if a tad boring. You may want to try the settings that Ken Ross posted, (thanks Ken) they are excellent as well. If you go with Ken's just try to raise the brightness a little to increase shadow detail.

Hope you find the settings that work for you.

best,
Tom


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Yes and excellent explanation lcaillo. I would add that the cyan error is not across the entire IRE range, it occurs on about 1/2 of the luminance range, the low (dark) end of the scale. Most importantly, you can't really se the teal color issue unless the content playing has a lot of the cyan mix to demonstrate where the error resides and you have at least one other perfectly calibrated panel butt next to the Elite.
> 
> I won't call it a non-issue, but it's close to being a non-issue, especially considering how hard it would be to be bartered by it in real world TV watching. However, I want it fixed and still believe we're likely to see it done in a firmware update shortly.
> 
> -Robert


ld dude: Thanks Robert, excellent way to describe the issue.

PS: I with you on this one buddy, were likely to see a firmware update shortly for this. :T


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

You can't use the CNET settings on a non-Elite Sharp. The settings are for the Elite - totally different animal.



Rukk said:


> DJ Mike Fury said:
> 
> 
> 
> I never had to use anything more than 120 low. I hate that SOE effect. Dynamic is too bright and looks so unnatural. Yea it's eye candy for those that don't know any better because they're used to the Samsungs bleeding at best buys, but you Normally buy this TV for reference. Obviously, you're entitled to how you want to view your tv, but I can't simply understand why spending the money we are to get such so so picture..
> 
> This is SO true! In an attempt to convince myself that I like the PQ on the giant Sharps (I was in the market to look for a replacement for my 70"Sony SXRD so I had to find something at least as big screen wise)I went to a local Frys' with Cnet settings. I found one of the 3 higher end models which had a dedicated blu-ray player connected side by side with another 70" Sharp. I tweaked the settings, played a few reference level discs and even though the picture looked much better than it did prior to the tweaking, I still wasn't sold. This couple with a sales rep comes over to view the sets and I remember the lady saying she liked the PQ on the untouched set (she didn't know I played with the settings on the tv I was observing). After turning away (to roll my eyes) I then told the couple I was messing with the settings in order to get "my" set to look like it would if it were home. I then put the tv back to it's default "bright/vibrant/vivid" (whatever) mode and the lady then shouted "that's more like it"! :rubeyes:
Click to expand...


----------



## Rukk

DJG said:


> So you're not refering to the Sharp Elite, but to the 730's or something else?


Yes. At the time, I hadn't even been aware of the Elite and was only looking for something to replace my 70" Sony. Sharp was/is the only company with the ability to do that, but unfortunately with the 730 lines, they compromised pq for size (imo). Or so I thought. Enter the Elite.


----------



## Widamere

I have a dumb question.....I have a DVD for color calibration, but it is in fact DVD not BluRay, will it still work for trying to get the set dialed in while I wait to get it calibrated??


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Pulled the trigger on the 70" beast today, can't wait to get it in my living room! This weekend should be fun, especially with it being Super bowl Sunday and all. Thank you for all the great advice and positive feed back guys! I'll be looking forward to joining in on some positive discussions among you other owners soon!


----------



## dnehring

Congrats on your new "baby"


----------



## mechman

Widamere said:


> I have a dumb question.....I have a DVD for color calibration, but it is in fact DVD not BluRay, will it still work for trying to get the set dialed in while I wait to get it calibrated??


Short answer, yes. The main thing you can do with these disc is to set your white and black levels. That is over half the battle with video calibration. Michael Chen says that setting these two correctly will get you ~70% of the way to a calibrated image. And I agree with him. :T


----------



## DJG

You might also want to add the backlight setting to those two, as it pretty much affects both the black and white points. Most people leave at the normal default setting but I like to dim it some to get a lower black level and compensate a bit for the lower highlights with the contrast control.


----------



## rmongiovi

Be careful if you're increasing contrast as you may be messing up your color. The out of the box contrast is already at or slightly exceeding the contrast at which the color red starts to clip. If you've got a blu-ray player burn a copy of AVSHD and bring up the "Color Clipping" test pattern that's under the "Additional Patterns" section at the top of the menu page.

I found that for THX mode the top couple of bars - 233, 234, and 235 for red - were already all the same brightness indicating clipping. Green and Blue did not exhibit this. I had to drop contrast down to 30 to avoid it.


----------



## DJG

Definitely. I use the same disk. One of the main things I check is the blown highlights. My usual problem is that I see a diff in the 240's and 250s . I also check clipping for RGB - I tend to clip the red but the G & B are 4-5 levels before clipping.


----------



## rmongiovi

Well, 236 and up are "whiter than white" so I'm not going to consider them a problem. The flickering background issue is all the problem I can stand at the moment.


----------



## DJG

I think most owners agree that's #1 ... let's see if they tame it.


----------



## Rukk

Is the box the beast comes in around the same size as the boxes of the other 70" ers out there? I ask because I may be in a position to retrieve one.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Ok, I've pretty much read what you guys have had to say regarding the best pre professional calibration settings, and will be using the Cnet settings with maybe a tad bump in color etc....But what I really want to know is, what movie or movies really shows off this display? Ya know something that honestly WOW'ed you with it's picture from the start? I'd like to try and see if I can get my wife to honestly notice a difference with this display when I get it Friday. She's one of those who claims that she sees no difference between the sets. Thanks


----------



## Ken Ross

GeneWildersHair said:


> Ok, I've pretty much read what you guys have had to say regarding the best pre professional calibration settings, and will be using the Cnet settings with maybe a tad bump in color etc....But what I really want to know is, what movie or movies really shows off this display? Ya know something that honestly WOW'ed you with it's picture from the start? I'd like to try and see if I can get my wife to honestly notice a difference with this display when I get it Friday. She's one of those who claims that she sees no difference between the sets. Thanks


I find dark scenes to be extraordinary on this display. It's relatively easy for a display to produce a nice picture in a bright scene, but dark scenes separate the men from the boys. It's those dark scenes that suck you in to the Elite's picture. Of course I think the Elite does a better job in bright scenes too, but the differences in dark scenes are easier to pick up IMO. 

I was just watching Gladiator (one of my all time favorites) and it was like the first time I had ever seen the movie, it was that good. The opening battle scene, that takes place before sunrise, is just amazing in terms of how much detail you can see.


----------



## Rukk

GeneWildersHair said:


> Ok, I've pretty much read what you guys have had to say regarding the best pre professional calibration settings, and will be using the Cnet settings with maybe a tad bump in color etc....But what I really want to know is, what movie or movies really shows off this display? Ya know something that honestly WOW'ed you with it's picture from the start? I'd like to try and see if I can get my wife to honestly notice a difference with this display when I get it Friday. She's one of those who claims that she sees no difference between the sets. Thanks



Also, The Dark Knight is great for demo material. You have many night time scenes (including some in IMAX. Note the night time Hong Kong scene). This was one of the discs I used when I played with one at a Magnolia after using Cnet settings. Straight up SPECTACULAR!! :T


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Ken Ross said:


> I find dark scenes to be extraordinary on this display. It's relatively easy for a display to produce a nice picture in a bright scene, but dark scenes separate the men from the boys. It's those dark scenes that suck you in to the Elite's picture. Of course I think the Elite does a better job in bright scenes too, but the differences in dark scenes are easier to pick up IMO.
> 
> I was just watching Gladiator (one of my all time favorites) and it was like the first time I had ever seen the movie, it was that good. The opening battle scene, that takes place before sunrise, is just amazing in terms of how much detail you can see.


Thank you for the suggestion. It's been awhile since I've seen this awesome movie, and have yet to experience it on blu ray. Maybe it's time!


----------



## dsskid

GeneWildersHair said:


> Ok, I've pretty much read what you guys have had to say regarding the best pre professional calibration settings, and will be using the Cnet settings with maybe a tad bump in color etc....But what I really want to know is, what movie or movies really shows off this display? Ya know something that honestly WOW'ed you with it's picture from the start? I'd like to try and see if I can get my wife to honestly notice a difference with this display when I get it Friday. She's one of those who claims that she sees no difference between the sets. Thanks


IMO, if you truly want her to notice the difference between your old display and the ElitE, it should be on programming that she is accustomed to viewing (Food Network maybe?), only this time on the new display.

Otherwise, for eyecandy, the other suggestions should do it.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Rukk said:


> Also, The Dark Knight is great for demo material. You have many night time scenes (including some in IMAX. Note the night time Hong Kong scene). This was one of the discs I used when I played with one at a Magnolia after using Cnet settings. Straight up SPECTACULAR!! :T


Awesome, as I own this one! I will definitely be doing some a/b comparisons with my current XBR4. Lol, this will surely reveal obvious differences, and will have my wife finally noticing!


----------



## TypeA

New review from Sound and Vision, they were obviously pretty impressed.


----------



## Rukk

GeneWildersHair said:


> Awesome, as I own this one! I will definitely be doing some a/b comparisons with my current XBR4. Lol, this will surely reveal obvious differences, and will have my wife finally noticing!


You will definitely notice the difference! I too own the xbr4 (well actually the xbr5 which is the piano black version) and even though I still love it (I have a 40" in my bedroom), and the blacks are great (especially for a 2007/2008 model television) it will NOT compare to this monster!


----------



## AZguy

I just got my 70". I had both my VT and Elite in the same room and to me the glare was about the same which is good for me, since I was reading a lot of info saying it was horrible. I will be using the Elite for most of my movie and gaming and the VT30 will be my new bed room TV just need a mount to set it all up. On the 3D side I watched Avatar 3D and it was amazing I couldn't believe how much brighter it was over the VT30 but keeping its amazing blacks.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Rukk said:


> You will definitely notice the difference! I too own the xbr4 (well actually the xbr5 which is the piano black version) and even though I still love it (I have a 40" in my bedroom), and the blacks are great (especially for a 2007/2008 model television) it will NOT compare to this monster!


Black levels aren't bad with the XBR4, but honestly even what I saw of the elite in the show room, it's off angled viewing had better blacks than my Sony. I can't wait to put it to the test in home lol.don't get me wrong, I love my XBR4, but it seriously is time to move on. It will now be my bedroom set.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> I find dark scenes to be extraordinary on this display. It's relatively easy for a display to produce a nice picture in a bright scene, but dark scenes separate the men from the boys. It's those dark scenes that suck you in to the Elite's picture. Of course I think the Elite does a better job in bright scenes too, but the differences in dark scenes are easier to pick up IMO.
> 
> I was just watching Gladiator (one of my all time favorites) and it was like the first time I had ever seen the movie, it was that good. The opening battle scene, that takes place before sunrise, is just amazing in terms of how much detail you can see.


Ok now I'm going to have to add that movie to my Netflix list on Blu-Ray, thx Ken. :sn:


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Great news! Got a call from Will from Sharp today. They were finally able to replicate the flickering issue. They are currently working on fix for that now.


----------



## DJG

Aha! Excellent news!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Great News Mike!! 

-Robert


----------



## cdiez58

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Great news! Got a call from Will from Sharp today. They were finally able to replicate the flickering issue. They are currently working on fix for that now.


You are awesome!!!


----------



## insidiousfix

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Great news! Got a call from Will from Sharp today. They were finally able to replicate the flickering issue. They are currently working on fix for that now.


...and there was much rejoicing!!!


----------



## aleicgrant

insidiousfix said:


> ...and there was much rejoicing!!!


I hope so because the pulsing is now driving me NUTS


----------



## obxdiver

GeneWildersHair said:


> ....But what I really want to know is, what movie or movies really shows off this display? Ya know something that honestly WOW'ed you with it's picture from the start? I'd like to try and see if I can get my wife to honestly notice a difference with this display when I get it Friday. She's one of those who claims that she sees no difference between the sets. Thanks


Avatar is some of the best eye candy you can show, and if you can get the 3D version, that will blow her away and make her a true believer in The Elite


----------



## DJG

Look for lists of movies witrh excellent BD transfers, any of those will do it .


----------



## treky11

GeneWildersHair said:


> Black levels aren't bad with the XBR4, but honestly even what I saw of the elite in the show room, it's off angled viewing had better blacks than my Sony. I can't wait to put it to the test in home lol.don't get me wrong, I love my XBR4, but it seriously is time to move on. It will now be my bedroom set.


I have a 46xbr4 and a 55xbr8 and the 70 elite all currently in use in my home. The Elite BLOWS the Xbr4 away in my opinion. If I go from my Elite to the xbr4 I feel like everything is grey instead of black. I think the xbr8 has very good blacks but they still don't measure up to the inky black the Elite has. Just my 2 cents.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Great news! Got a call from Will from Sharp today. They were finally able to replicate the flickering issue. They are currently working on fix for that now.


Mike, did they say what material & mode brought it out?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

obxdiver said:


> Avatar is some of the best eye candy you can show, and if you can get the 3D version, that will blow her away and make her a true believer in The Elite


Any time frame on when Avatar will be released to the masses in 3D?


----------



## Weaselboy

GeneWildersHair said:


> Any time frame on when Avatar will be released to the masses in 3D?


I know the exclusive deal with Panasonic ends in February, so hopefully soon after that. Have not heard a specific date though.


----------



## DJG

GeneWildersHair said:


> ....But what I really want to know is, what movie or movies really shows off this display? Ya know something that honestly WOW'ed you with it's picture from the start? ...


Ok, having watched Season of the Witch last night I can definitely recommend it as excellent demo material. It has several very nice palettes, from very cool to very warm, in some cases both because of clever lighting. There are even some scenes with a neutral palette. Lots of very dark detailed scenes, sometimes with both very dark and bright elements. Great BD transfer pushes the TV to its max.


----------



## obxdiver

DJG said:


> Ok, having watched Season of the Witch last night I can definitely recommend it as excellent demo material. It has several very nice palettes, from very cool to very warm, in some cases both because of clever lighting. There are even some scenes with a neutral palette. Lots of very dark detailed scenes, sometimes with both very dark and bright elements. Great BD transfer pushes the TV to its max.


Cool.. I will have to check that one out. Thanks for the recommendation
:T


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJG said:


> Ok, having watched Season of the Witch last night I can definitely recommend it as excellent demo material. It has several very nice palettes, from very cool to very warm, in some cases both because of clever lighting. There are even some scenes with a neutral palette. Lots of very dark detailed scenes, sometimes with both very dark and bright elements. Great BD transfer pushes the TV to its max.


Nice recommendation! Thank you for such a description! Now awaiting for my TV to arrive any minute... the suspense is killing me. I just got off of a 12 hour graveyard shift, and don't want to go to sleep at all. lol


----------



## trcnet

GeneWildersHair said:


> Nice recommendation! Thank you for such a description! Now awaiting for my TV to arrive any minute... the suspense is killing me. I just got off of a 12 hour graveyard shift, and don't want to go to sleep at all. lol


Congrats!!!:clap: Hope you enjoy your Elite as much as I do mine.

best,
Tom


----------



## Nuke76

When you've finished your initial tweaking, watch the opening scene of the Bladerunner BD. Inky black night scene with the flyover of the city. The burnoffs and explosions are vivid and detailed.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Question, is there a way to tell what firmware my TV is currently on?


----------



## Weaselboy

GeneWildersHair said:


> Nice recommendation! Thank you for such a description! Now awaiting for my TV to arrive any minute... the suspense is killing me. I just got off of a 12 hour graveyard shift, and don't want to go to sleep at all. lol


Also, you might try the BluRays of Fifth Element and Gladiator. Both will really show off your new set!


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Nuke76 said:


> When you've finished your initial tweaking, watch the opening scene of the Bladerunner BD. Inky black night scene with the flyover of the city. The burnoffs and explosions are vivid and detailed.


Don't currently have Bladerunner, but will definitely check it out some time, it's been awhile since I've watched it, and I hear great things about the transfer to blu ray. So far I've watched scenes from the dark knight, and I was really impressed. Wow...those night time Imax scenes were truly a site! Note I did notice an occasional flicker or pulse on some scenes, but it honestly didn't distract me. Hopefully a fix will come tho. As for the Cyan issue...lol, what issue? I know it's there, but honestly don't think I'd ever notice. Currently watching Apocalypto (one of my favs), decent PQ, fantastic sound, and one helluva flick! Upgrading from a 52" to a 70", is quite a jump, but one that sucks me into the movie even more.


----------



## Nuke76

Well, congratulations on the new joy in your life. You will see details in all of your favorites that you never saw before. I agree with the Dark Knight as a treat to watch, but I didn't see any pulsing. Are you on THX Movie? Enjoy the Super Bowl!!!!!!


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Nuke76 said:


> Well, congratulations on the new joy in your life. You will see details in all of your favorites that you never saw before. I agree with the Dark Knight as a treat to watch, but I didn't see any pulsing. Are you on THX Movie? Enjoy the Super Bowl!!!!!!


Yes using thx movie, and the Cnet settings. the pulsing I saw was in a courtroom scene, Harvey Debt was speaking, and I could clearly see pulsing in the wall behind him. Other than that I didn't notice any other, if you'd like I can throw the disc back in and let ya know exactly where I see it... Ooh and btw, blu ray blacks, and colors look amazingly natural, with great pop, however my dish network with these same settings, are pretty bland, and skin tones seem to be a bit yellow. Any one else with the same issue?


----------



## DJG

I have DirecTV and the same ISF settimgs I use for BD work fine for DTV.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJG said:


> I have DirecTV and the same ISF settimgs I use for BD work fine for DTV.


Yeah I've noticed that with a bigger display, the more flaws in dish's picture quality show up! Having had DirecTV 2 years ago, I know that their PQ is actually a little better.


----------



## mechman

GeneWildersHair said:


> Yes using thx movie, and the Cnet settings. the pulsing I saw was in a courtroom scene, Harvey Debt was speaking, and I could clearly see pulsing in the wall behind him. Other than that I didn't notice any other, if you'd like I can throw the disc back in and let ya know exactly where I see it... Ooh and btw, blu ray blacks, and colors look amazingly natural, with great pop, however my dish network with these same settings, are pretty bland, and skin tones seem to be a bit yellow. Any one else with the same issue?


More than likely it is the source - as in the network you were watching - or even the content. It could be Dish Network as well, but I doubt it. It would be difficult to attempt to calibrate a cable or satellite source when the content on every channel may be different. When I calibrate my sets I calibrate the inputs and double check the blu-ray source. For my satellite connection I'm comforted knowing that the input is set up correctly. There isn't much that can be done about the source. If your blu-ray looks fine, you're probably fine.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

mechman said:


> More than likely it is the source - as in the network you were watching - or even the content. It could be Dish Network as well, but I doubt it. It would be difficult to attempt to calibrate a cable or satellite source when the content on every channel may be different. When I calibrate my sets I calibrate the inputs and double check the blu-ray source. For my satellite connection I'm comforted knowing that the input is set up correctly. There isn't much that can be done about the source. If your blu-ray looks fine, you're probably fine.


Gotcha, yeah blu rays look gorgeous! Btw, I do see a lot of pulsing/flickering on all modes. Especially on network TV shows in darker scenes. Btw, if I see the flickering and rewind to see it again, it's of course still there in the exact same spot, but has any one noticed that if you have the menu up, or even your cable or satellite menu is up when trying to replicate the pulse, it doesn't flicker in that same exact spot?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Great news! Got a call from Will from Sharp today. They were finally able to replicate the flickering issue. They are currently working on fix for that now.


You rock!


----------



## Rukk

BLAM!!!! What's that sound you ask? Oh that's me pulling the trigger! Bought, paid for and now sitting in the crown royal area! The 70" beast is now mine!!! While in THX mode, I used DVE (Digital Video Essentials to those new to the game) and not surprisingly, the color was accurate. I didn't have to set the blue and the green and red were already where they needed to be as well. I did have to go -1 on Brightness and +37 for contrast (above that clipping of whites begin). I then augmented those settings with Cnet's. I also applied them to Directv's input. This set is INCREDIBLE! Oh and I already have 10 hrs toward the 100 needed for break in! Next stop: The OPPO BDP-93!

Oh and Mr Zohn? Is it still possible to get those discreet codes from you?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Great news! Got a call from Will from Sharp today. They were finally able to replicate the flickering issue. They are currently working on fix for that now.


Odd just got off the phone to register a complaint on this issue, and they claim they haven't heard of it, and said it was probably my devices I have connected causing the issue. She tells me this even tho I explained it happens only with local dimming turned on, and even with the Netflix app on the TV itself. She then proceeded to tell me, if it is only on local dimming then just shut it off!? I just wanted to register a complaint to help speed a possible fix up, as it doesn't really bother my watching, but it would be nice to eliminate. Btw, I find it completely unacceptable, that they recommend that we shut off this TV's major selling point. Are these sharp elite "support" operators in the loop or not? I mean a quick Google search will yield many complaints if this issue, with owners that claim to have registered complaints.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Rukk said:


> BLAM!!!! What's that sound you ask? Oh that's me pulling the trigger! Bought, paid for and now sitting in the crown royal area! The 70" beast is now mine!!! While in THX mode, I used DVE (Digital Video Essentials to those new to the game) and not surprisingly, the color was accurate. I didn't have to set the blue and the green and red were already where they needed to be as well. I did have to go -1 on Brightness and +37 for contrast (above that clipping of whites begin). I then augmented those settings with Cnet's. I also applied them to Directv's input. This set is INCREDIBLE! Oh and I already have 10 hrs toward the 100 needed for break in! Next stop: The OPPO BDP-93!
> 
> *Oh and Mr Zohn? Is it still possible to get those discreet codes from you?*


Sure just send me an email. Happy you are enjoying your Elite TV!

-Robert



GeneWildersHair said:


> Odd just got off the phone to register a complaint on this issue, and they claim they haven't heard of it, and said it was probably my devices I have connected causing the issue. She tells me this even tho I explained it happens only with local dimming turned on, and even with the Netflix app on the TV itself. She then proceeded to tell me, if it is only on local dimming then just shut it off!? I just wanted to register a complaint to help speed a possible fix up, as it doesn't really bother my watching, but it would be nice to eliminate. Btw, I find it completely unacceptable, that they recommend that we shut off this TV's major selling point. Are these sharp elite "support" operators in the loop or not? I mean a quick Google search will yield many complaints if this issue, with owners that claim to have registered complaints.


Did you call the dedicated Elite Advantage line at 1-855-Elite-01 (1-855-354-8301) ? None of Sharp's tech support staff know much about the Elite series. You may need to register before using the service.

Here's the service hours:

7am–9pm Central Time, Monday–Friday
9am–7pm Central Time, Sat–Sun and Holidays

I've found them to be knowledgeable, but of course, you can always run into a bad support person at any company.

-Robert


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Robert Zohn said:


> Sure just send me an email. Happy you are enjoying your Elite TV!
> 
> -Robert
> 
> Did you call the dedicated Elite Advantage line at 1-855-Elite-01 (1-855-354-8301) ? None of Sharp's tech support staff know much about the Elite series. You may need to register before using the service.
> 
> Here's the service hours:
> 
> 7am–9pm Central Time, Monday–Friday
> 9am–7pm Central Time, Sat–Sun and Holidays
> 
> I've found them to be knowledgeable, but of course, you can always run into a bad support person at any company.
> 
> -Robert


Yes I registered, and phoned the right tech service, so yeah, hopefully it was just a bad tech....


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thanks Gene. It's just a good lesson that if you get a bad customer support rep for anything it's best to politely excuse yourself and redial to get another rep. Once I told a rep, "Hey gotta run my kid just scraped his knee".

The good news is that Sharp has recognized the issue. I know DJ Mike's contact and he is a very reliable source on Sharp's Elite TV. 

-Robert


----------



## AZguy

Just got my Home Theater Mag issue March 2012 and they gave Elite top TV pick in 2011 and top overall Pick of the year. On a side note they gave the Panasonic ST30 series runner up for best value.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Robert Zohn said:


> Thanks Gene. It's just a good lesson that if you get a bad customer support rep for anything it's best to politely excuse yourself and redial to get another rep. Once I told a rep, "Hey gotta run my kid just scraped his knee".
> 
> The good news is that Sharp has recognized the issue. I know DJ Mike's contact and he is a very reliable source on Sharp's Elite TV.
> 
> -Robert


That's great to hear Robert, and thank you for all you've done for the community!


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## GeneWildersHair

Terrible half time show, but wow what a beautiful picture!!! The black levels are ridiculous! Elite is definitely tops for this years super bowl!!! Btw this is my first experience with a football game on this TV, and I'm blown away...


----------



## Rukk

GeneWildersHair said:


> Terrible half time show, but wow what a beautiful picture!!! The black levels are ridiculous! Elite is definitely tops for this years super bowl!!! Btw this is my first experience with a football game on this TV, and I'm blown away...





GeneWildersHair said:


> Terrible half time show, but wow what a beautiful picture!!! The black levels are ridiculous! Elite is definitely tops for this years super bowl!!! Btw this is my first experience with a football game on this TV, and I'm blown away...


I quoted you twice because I echo everything you've said! This television is simply awesome!


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Rukk said:


> I quoted you twice because I echo everything you've said! This television is simply awesome!


Nice. Yeah that wasn't just watching a game. On this TV, it was an experience!


----------



## aleicgrant

Can I take a poll here. How many of you are experiencing pulsing in thx mode?

Please post your sn if you are

1- aleicgrant


----------



## DJG

Maybe there should be a separate thread with a proper poll for the various problems and whether you have it or not, otherwise this will get messy here - just a thought ...


----------



## aleicgrant

DJG said:


> Maybe there should be a separate thread with a proper poll for the various problems and whether you have it or not, otherwise this will get messy here - just a thought ...


Works for me. Trying to get some info for will at sharp


----------



## Rukk

I'm not exactly sure what "pulsing" is. What am I looking for? I've had my set since Friday and I haven't seen any issues (of course I could simply be experiencing the euphoria of getting the new tv). Can someone describe what this is?


----------



## aleicgrant

Rukk said:


> I'm not exactly sure what "pulsing" is. What am I looking for? I've had my set since Friday and I haven't seen any issues (of course I could simply be experiencing the euphoria of getting the new tv). Can someone describe what this is?


Read up. You have 160 pages to find out ;-)


----------



## Widamere

OK, been tweaking, prodding, poking and generally ticking my wife off:bigsmile: came up with this
elite pure
I.V.C. off
OPC off
backlight +2
contrast+22
brightness +2
color +1
tint 0
sharpness +3
color temp middle: used CNET FOR HUE, SATURATION, VALUE and for the 10 point settings
motion enhanchment 120Hz low
precision color off
active contrast on
gamma 0
film mode off
digital noise reduction auto

I was watching the Last Samurai, 3:10 to Yuma and Gladiator, I thought they looked really good.
Super Bowl looked pretty good too:T......except them Giants.....keep beating my Packers:hissyfit:

Give them a try and let me know what ya think, Mike


----------



## DJG

O.M.G.! You have no llight dimming??? You have no blacks, I think, unless you're in a brightly lit room.


----------



## Widamere

I hate the way the screen changes w/ IVC on, bright dark/bright dark....always flickering.
and yeah, the room is fairly bright, 4x10 window and open to the adjoining room.


----------



## DJG

The plain Local Dimming should be very stable and make a huge difference. The others I don't care for.


----------



## Widamere

OK, you are right. I put IVC to 'on', backlight and brightness to +3 and contrast to 25, I also to active contrast off. Much deeper and richer picture:T I'll try this out for a couple days and see how it works. There are about 6 months before football starts again anyway  
TNX!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DJG

Enjoy a great pic!


----------



## aleicgrant

Off topic but wanted to say happy birthday to.Robert!


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Alec - why do you need a poll on the flickering for Will? Is this his reason for fixing the issue or not? If so, I'll call him right now lol


----------



## aleicgrant

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Alec - why do you need a poll on the flickering for Will? Is this his reason for fixing the issue or not? If so, I'll call him right now lol


No not specifically..its more because so few have it happening in thx. He assured me yesterday that they were pressing the engineers to at least provide an eta.


----------



## Audiofiler

I have kept up with this thread along the way pretty much every day and have been tracking what people have been using for wall mount application on the 70" when posted.

Is everyone using the AN-52AG4 from Sharp or are people finding preference with something else, for example, like Monoprice mounts?


----------



## aleicgrant

Audiofiler said:


> I have kept up with this thread along the way pretty much every day and have been tracking what people have been using for wall mount application on the 70" when posted.
> 
> Is everyone using the AN-52AG4 from Sharp or are people finding preference with something else, for example, like Monoprice mounts?


Sanus ll11 if you want a low profile non tilt


----------



## GeneWildersHair

I personally use CNET settings however, this TV still exhibits the pulse issue, like I've said before,I just deal with it, tho I can see why some would get annoyed by them. Hopefully a fix will come soon. Until then I played with some settings to see if I could eliminate the issue, and still use IVC. I believe I have done it, here are the settings those of you with this issue can try... IVC: advanced middle, backlight: 3, contrast: 20, brightness: 1, color: 3, & gamma: -1. All other settings use CNET's. Let me know if this does indeed eliminate the pulsing for you, as it does for me.


----------



## Spiff69

It is pretty rare, but I have seen the pulsing in THX - saw it in Grimm and The Biggest Loser.


----------



## Widamere

Don't Disney movies have a menu choice for picture/color adjustments? I can't find any on Pirates 1,2,3 or National Treasure 1 or 2


----------



## AZguy

I've had my 70" Elite for a week now and I still keep saying wow. About a month ago I watched Tron in 3D on my 65VT30 and I thought this looks pretty good, but the letter bars were noticeable in a dark room. Today I watch it again on the Elite and holy it looked amazing I couldn't even tell I had letter bars now. Thanks Robert for an amazing TV.


----------



## Robert Zohn

AZguy, ^^ thanks!, Glad you are enjoying the world's best TV.

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Some very good news! :sn:




Kevin Miller said:


> Hi All,
> 
> I saw a question directed to me regarding the ISF modes from the Shootout. Actually I am now confinced that Robert's sample was defective after calibrating 6 Elites in the last two weeks. ISF modes are turning out to be the best in terms of picture accuracy over all of the other modes. No issues!


----------



## aleicgrant

I hope we have news on the fix for the pulse. Its getting to really be irritating


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Radtech51 said:


> Some very good news! :sn:


Yea I noted about his opinion a couple weeks ago here and avs.. Hopefully it's true for everyone's sake


----------



## DJG

OK, I'm beginning to be a heretic - I am actually tending towards using the D75 with SMPTE-C Primaries target temperature of 7500K, rather than the D65 / BT.709 standard recommended of 6500K when calibrating. I like the colors better as they seem more neutral to me. Are my eyes going haywire?


----------



## tomboyter

DJG said:


> I like the colors better as they seem more neutral to me. Are my eyes going haywire?


Nope, you're just breaking new ground with the fourth sub-pixel...keep it up !


----------



## mechman

DJG said:


> OK, I'm beginning to be a heretic - I am actually tending towards using the D75 with SMPTE-C Primaries target temperature of 7500K, rather than the D65 / BT.709 standard recommended of 6500K when calibrating. I like the colors better as they seem more neutral to me. Are my eyes going haywire?


What meter are you using? What content are you using to judge this? It's all a matter of standards. Do you want your display to match the standard or not? I choose not to when watching hockey as I like it brighter and more bluish. Although broadcast content isn't always matching the standard anyways.


----------



## rmongiovi

tomboyter said:


> Nope, you're just breaking new ground with the fourth sub-pixel...keep it up !


You can't break new ground with the fourth sub-pixel unless you drop rec.709 and encode more information into the source. There's no information in the current source encoding on which to base a fourth sub-pixel.

Some people use tone controls on an audio system to achieve a flat frequency response and reproduce the recorded sound without added coloration. Other people use tone controls to make the music sound good to them and don't worry whether or not it sounds like the original performance.

If you believe that the purpose of calibration is to reproduce the image as it was originally recorded, then you're stuck with D65 and the rec.709 color gamut. Those values are built into the encoded signal and the mathematical relations used to transform RGB to YCbCr and back. If you don't use those values you can't get back what the camera recorded. It's not really open to interpretation.

If you believe the purpose of calibration is to produce an image you like, then you can do whatever you want. The eye is a very adaptable sensory organ so there's not really much you can say about it. You've all seen that optical illusion of a checkerboard with the cylinder sitting on it where two squares in the checkerboard are actually the same color but because one is in the shadow of the cylinder they appear completely different. Without a standard and a meter, it's really all a matter of whether or not you like what you see. De gustibus non disputandum.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> OK, I'm beginning to be a heretic - I am actually tending towards using the D75 with SMPTE-C Primaries target temperature of 7500K, rather than the D65 / BT.709 standard recommended of 6500K when calibrating. I like the colors better as they seem more neutral to me. Are my eyes going haywire?


No, you're just a heretic.


----------



## DJG

mechman said:


> What meter are you using? What content are you using to judge this? It's all a matter of standards. Do you want your display to match the standard or not? I choose not to when watching hockey as I like it brighter and more bluish. Although broadcast content isn't always matching the standard anyways.


I'm using CalMAN DIY and an i1 Disp Pro, calibrating both the CIE gamut and the 10-point greyscale in iterative fashion. I judge both from DVDs / BDs and DirecTV. But also I'm looking at the continuous (allegedly grey) scale. I have found that using the 6500K standard gets me a very warmish / somewhat yellowish greyscale. The content I watch confirms this.

The 7500K standard gets me a much more neutral-looking greyscale and again the content supports this, the varied palettes that they use in todays movies not withstanding.

I do a lot of photography so that possibly also has some influence on how i see things. I also give myself some time to adapt to a new calibration, as it always takes time for the senses to adjust.


----------



## DJG

Ken Ross said:


> No, you're just a heretic.


Very comforting, Ken ... I think I can hear the crowd gathering outside for a hanging addle: ... in DTS 7.1 HD Master .


----------



## DJG

rmongiovi said:


> You can't break new ground with the fourth sub-pixel unless you drop rec.709 and encode more information into the source. There's no information in the current source encoding on which to base a fourth sub-pixel.
> 
> Some people use tone controls on an audio system to achieve a flat frequency response and reproduce the recorded sound without added coloration. Other people use tone controls to make the music sound good to them and don't worry whether or not it sounds like the original performance.
> 
> If you believe that the purpose of calibration is to reproduce the image as it was originally recorded, then you're stuck with D65 and the rec.709 color gamut. Those values are built into the encoded signal and the mathematical relations used to transform RGB to YCbCr and back. If you don't use those values you can't get back what the camera recorded. It's not really open to interpretation.
> 
> If you believe the purpose of calibration is to produce an image you like, then you can do whatever you want. The eye is a very adaptable sensory organ so there's not really much you can say about it. You've all seen that optical illusion of a checkerboard with the cylinder sitting on it where two squares in the checkerboard are actually the same color but because one is in the shadow of the cylinder they appear completely different. Without a standard and a meter, it's really all a matter of whether or not you like what you see. De gustibus non disputandum.


Well, that is true but assumes everything is working according to plan. But when the greyscale reproduced is not quite grey ... obviously something ain't working to spec. I don't think it's the meter - I also have a Spyder 3 and got similar results.


----------



## lcaillo

DJG said:


> I'm using CalMAN DIY and an i1 Disp Pro, calibrating both the CIE gamut and the 10-point greyscale in iterative fashion. I judge both from DVDs / BDs and DirecTV. But also I'm looking at the continuous (allegedly grey) scale. I have found that using the 6500K standard gets me a very warmish / somewhat yellowish greyscale. The content I watch confirms this.
> 
> The 7500K standard gets me a much more neutral-looking greyscale and again the content supports this, the varied palettes that they use in todays movies not withstanding.
> 
> I do a lot of photography so that possibly also has some influence on how i see things. I also give myself some time to adapt to a new calibration, as it always takes time for the senses to adjust.


This is a very common situation. The vast majority of people feel that ~7500K grey scale is more normal looking than D65. The reason for this is that we are conditioned to higher color temperatures by decades of manufacturers pushing them higher (most sets are well over 10000K in vivid modes OOB). The majority of users that I have calibrated for also find just the opposite after a few weeks of watching a display calibrated to D65. They find other displays to be far too blue.

The bottom line is that if you do not accommodate to D65 and still feel after watching it for a while that you prefer some other gray scale, then you should watch what you like and there is no need to apologize for it.


----------



## JimP

DJG said:


> I'm using CalMAN DIY and an i1 Disp Pro, calibrating both the CIE gamut and the 10-point greyscale in iterative fashion. I judge both from DVDs / BDs and DirecTV. But also I'm looking at the continuous (allegedly grey) scale. I have found that using the 6500K standard gets me a very warmish / somewhat yellowish greyscale. The content I watch confirms this.
> 
> The 7500K standard gets me a much more neutral-looking greyscale and again the content supports this, the varied palettes that they use in todays movies not withstanding.
> 
> I do a lot of photography so that possibly also has some influence on how i see things. I also give myself some time to adapt to a new calibration, as it always takes time for the senses to adjust.


A correctly color balanced display take no time to adjust to. If its taking you time to adjust, I'd say that your color is off.

Does Calman have a display type that is recommended for the Elite????


----------



## buzzard767

DJG said:


> I have found that using the 6500K standard gets me a very warmish / somewhat yellowish greyscale. The content I watch confirms this.
> 
> The 7500K standard gets me a much more neutral-looking greyscale and again the content supports this, the varied palettes that they use in todays movies not withstanding.





DJG said:


> Well, that is true but assumes everything is working according to plan. But when the greyscale reproduced is not quite grey ... obviously something ain't working to spec. I don't think it's the meter - I also have a Spyder 3 and got similar results.


If your eyes aren't tricking you it sounds like your meters are a little off. If you have a friend with a spectro from which you can profile you might want to give that a try. Because the D3 has good low light capabilities look closely at the 10 and 20% patterns for coloration at both D65 & 75. If you're looking at the lighter end with a step pattern, if 80 - 100% are blue you are probably clipping red and it can make 30 - 70% pinkish looking. If this is the case, cover up the brighter steps with a book or something and you might find that the pink you thought you saw on the less bright steps is no longer there.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Very comforting, Ken ... I think I can hear the crowd gathering outside for a hanging addle: ... in DTS 7.1 HD Master .


Seriously though, the most logical question to ask is have you used D6500 on prior displays and, if so, how did you like it then? It's not unusual for people to have a negative reaction to 6500 if they haven't lived with it for awhile. 

Conversely, once you've acclimated, 7500 and higher looks too blue.


----------



## DJG

buzzard767 said:


> If your eyes aren't tricking you it sounds like your meters are a little off. If you have a friend with a spectro from which you can profile you might want to give that a try. Because the D3 has good low light capabilities look closely at the 10 and 20% patterns for coloration at both D65 & 75. If you're looking at the lighter end with a step pattern, if 80 - 100% are blue you are probably clipping red and it can make 30 - 70% pinkish looking. If this is the case, cover up the brighter steps with a book or something and you might find that the pink you thought you saw on the less bright steps is no longer there.


This is all good advice, appreciated. I don't judge quickly, and do try to view the patterns and images from various perspectives. I'm aware of the intricacies of vision - perceived, deduced, interpolated, presumed and so forth . Vision is a complex subjective and objective process. I have a fair amount of experience on it from many years of darkroom work, both wet and digital - I've been calibrating my monitors for many years with Spyders 2 & 3.

I set up for a very dark room. I use CalMAN DIY, ControlCal and the i1 Display Pro. Patterns have been coming from the Oppo 83 SE, but when my Radiance gets back from being rehabed from a firmware update gone awry, I'll be trying that as pattern generator. I want to keep the calibration strictly on the Elite for now and not bring the Radiance into it.

I am using the two ISF settings (day / night), and normally have my current calibration choice in night with day as an alternative or for comparison purposes. In day I alternate - I sometimes load the CNET settings, one of my previous calibrations, some hybrid I may concoct splicing from the ControlCal XML files (e.g. CNET CMS section with one of my calibration's 10-point WB), or the new candidate so I can do quick comparisons using the Elite menu to alternate between night & day settings in the various scenarios I'm looking at.

The patterns I look at are the continuous greyscale for overall color space placement and level uniformity / gamma, the pluge for blacks and the RGB color clipping so I can see what's happening on each color. I also check the flashing colors (cyan / blue). I use both the AVSHD and DVE HD Basics discs.

I then go through the demo material in the DVE disc, followed by surfing through the DirecTV HBO, SHO, TMC etc. to see the various palettes and visual scenarious. I check blacks, shadow & highlight detail, and color space. I'm big on blacks and shadow detail because I watch a lot of dark movies. I'll tweak Backlight and Brightness, and ocassionally Contrast. Normally I give myself a few hours or a couple of days depending, unless something is obvious.

The yellowing / warming from the straight calibration sessions with D65 is visible - no need for adaptation. If I replace the CMS section from the calibration with the CMS section from the CNET settings, much better, but measures off in CalMAN. I get this with both Spyder & i1, so I don't think it's a meter thing.

I currently have a great looking pic, but calibrated from the D75 target. It is a bit on the cool side, but much more on target than calibrations from D65 across the many palette scenarios in BD and DirecTV. If I could use a D72 target I think it would be perfect .


----------



## DJG

Ken Ross said:


> Seriously though, the most logical question to ask is have you used D6500 on prior displays and, if so, how did you like it then? It's not unusual for people to have a negative reaction to 6500 if they haven't lived with it for awhile.
> 
> Conversely, once you've acclimated, 7500 and higher looks too blue.


Ken, I'm a big fan of adaptation . I do give it time, and it's as you say. With the straight CNET settings, Temp = Low works for me, Med-Low is a bit too cool. At one time I would have prefered the Med-Low or even the Medium, but I have adapted to the warmer target. But in my calibrations the results are noticeably warmer / yellower that the straight CNET settings. The blue in the Oppo logo when it's stopped, and the new DirecTV HD GUI look significantly different.

I find it interesting that it's the blue that seems most affected, which is complementary to the yellow pixels onder: ... Could it be CalMAN or the meters are not dealing with them properly? I'm sure the calibrators are using better equipment / software, which maybe aren't phased by the yellow pixels?

CalMAN explicitly supports the Elite, but I believe that's basically accessing the controls (which I prefer to do with ControlCal), not necessarily taking the yellow pixel into account as there is nothing extra in the GUI to support that explicitly.

Who knows . Bottom line, after much adventuring which I've enjoyed, I have an amazing picture to look at, visibly more so than the CNET settings which provided a great pic to start with. And the adventuring continues ...


----------



## buzzard767

DJG said:


> Who knows . Bottom line, after much adventuring which I've enjoyed, I have an amazing picture to look at, visibly more so than the CNET settings which provided a great pic to start with. And the adventuring continues ...


You've been very thorough and I'm sure your Elite is looking close to perfect. Having a display that causes you to do double takes is thrilling if you're into this calibration stuff.


----------



## cdiez58

DJG said:


> Ken, I'm a big fan of adaptation . I do give it time, and it's as you say. With the straight CNET settings, Temp = Low works for me, Med-Low is a bit too cool. At one time I would have prefered the Med-Low or even the Medium, but I have adapted to the warmer target. But in my calibrations the results are noticeably warmer / yellower that the straight CNET settings. The blue in the Oppo logo when it's stopped, and the new DirecTV HD GUI look significantly different.
> 
> I find it interesting that it's the blue that seems most affected, which is complementary to the yellow pixels onder: ... Could it be CalMAN or the meters are not dealing with them properly? I'm sure the calibrators are using better equipment / software, which maybe aren't phased by the yellow pixels?
> 
> CalMAN explicitly supports the Elite, but I believe that's basically accessing the controls (which I prefer to do with ControlCal), not necessarily taking the yellow pixel into account as there is nothing extra in the GUI to support that explicitly.
> 
> Who knows . Bottom line, after much adventuring which I've enjoyed, I have an amazing picture to look at, visibly more so than the CNET settings which provided a great pic to start with. And the adventuring continues ...


the yellow pixel thing is not an issue....meters dont see pixels they read color over a large area...I written about this topic before...LCD is not not like any direct view tech like CRT and Plasma...This particular tech uses LED back light...so there are 4 colors in play RGB and the color of the backlight ...BTW there are No native white LEDS just Blue ones with phosphors added...the yellow pixel can play a roll on getting the "warmth" back into the picture that maybe a cooler backlight LED causes


----------



## lcaillo

The yellow pixel CAN be an issue, depending on how they are using it. The relation between gray scale and color processing can be complex, and they are adding another variable. If you are measuring gray scale by activating the primaries only, then when using color add the yellow pixel based upon color decoding, the luminance of the yellow pixel is a significant variable. How the colors are mapped in their decoder can play a very complex role. It is not just a matter of oversaturating yellow.


----------



## DJG

^^^ Indeed. I wasn't refering to the individual pixel itself - it's as you say above. I was refering to the addition of the separate yellow pixel light might be introducing variations to the expected mix that are throwing the decoder off.


----------



## Rukk

I've had my Elite for 9 days now. Yesterday I played around with the QPP (going back and forth, taking it in and out) and for the life of me, I see no discernible difference. Is it because my set is still going through a "break in" period or is the effect very subtle...or is it just me? Lol


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Rukk said:


> I've had my Elite for 9 days now. Yesterday I played around with the QPP (going back and forth, taking it in and out) and for the life of me, I see no discernible difference. Is it because my set is still going through a "break in" period or is the effect very subtle...or is it just me? Lol


Just noticed you and I got our sets the same day! Guess we are both going thru this break in process.... Btw, I love this TV!


----------



## cdiez58

lcaillo said:


> The yellow pixel CAN be an issue, depending on how they are using it. The relation between gray scale and color processing can be complex, and they are adding another variable. If you are measuring gray scale by activating the primaries only, then when using color add the yellow pixel based upon color decoding, the luminance of the yellow pixel is a significant variable. How the colors are mapped in their decoder can play a very complex role. It is not just a matter of oversaturating yellow.


I realize that...But Dont tell me how it CAN affect the accuracy of the TV...Please tell me how it does affect the accuracy of the best TV money can buy...maybe the competition should have the yellow subpixel...yes color processing is the major player here...my point is that Plasma and Crt use RGB technology...backlight doesnt come into play and that the picture quality of the Elite with the yellow subpixel are amazing...to me the adding the yellow subpixel gives the tv more options deal with variable backlight intensities and color temp options.


----------



## rmongiovi

cdiez58 said:


> I realize that...But Dont tell me how it CAN affect the accuracy of the TV...Please tell me how it does affect the accuracy of the best TV money can buy...maybe the competition should have the yellow subpixel...yes color processing is the major player here...my point is that Plasma and Crt use RGB technology...backlight doesnt come into play and that the picture quality of the Elite with the yellow subpixel are amazing...to me the adding the yellow subpixel gives the tv more options deal with variable backlight intensities and color temp options.


Do a little research. Understand how the red, green, and blue sensitive cones in the eye produce all the colors you can see and how that led to the development of cameras which record only red, green, and blue. The video standards use R, G, and B *precisely* because they correspond to the color receptors in the eye. They are based on the fact that with R, G, and B you can mimic the way the eye responds to a continuous spectrum because those are the only color receptors we have to deal with.

Understand the mathematical transforms used by rec.709 to translate the RGB that the camera encodes into the YCbCr that is recorded on the DVD/Blu-ray disk as well as the mathematics used to transform that YCbCr back into RGB so that it can be displayed. Viewing the original image stimulates the red, green, and blue cones in your eye in a particular way. The video encoding guarantees that the red, green, and blue pixels of a correctly calibrated display stimulate the cones in precisely the same way. The display looks identical to the original image because your red, green, and blue cones send the same signals to your brain for each. Nothing you can add to this can make it better. Not even a yellow sub-pixel.

Then ask yourself, "How do I modify the math so that I can get RGBY out of YCbCr?" When a pixel has non-zero R, G, and B values you have to compute how much of the stimulus that the recorded signal encodes as R and G should be transferred into Y, but how much? The end goal is to provide the same stimulus to the red and green cones in your eye as in the original image, but now you have to do it with both red and green as well as yellow sub-pixels. The problem is in the way the stimulus curves of the cones in your eye overlap. Moving luminance from the green sub-pixel in order to use the yellow sub-pixel removes stimulus from the blue sensitive cone because of the way the response curves of the cones overlap.

So using a yellow sub-pixel makes decoding the source video more complicated and can't add anything to an accurate image. As long as video cameras only record R, G, and B, and encoded video only records R, G, and B, anything added to a display device in the form of other colors cannot improve the image and can only make it much more likely that it will be inaccurate.


----------



## Mikey94025

rmongiovi said:


> So using a yellow sub-pixel makes decoding the source video more complicated and can't add anything to an accurate image.


But... But... I saw Lt. Sulu say "Wow!" on TV.


----------



## DJG

rmongiovi said:


> ...
> So using a yellow sub-pixel makes decoding the source video more complicated and can't add anything to an accurate image. As long as video cameras only record R, G, and B, and encoded video only records R, G, and B, anything added to a display device in the form of other colors cannot improve the image and can only make it much more likely that it will be inaccurate.


It does help make it brighter .

I just saw Ultimate Wave Tahiti in my heretically calibrated 70X5 - WOW! That is a gorgeous piece of cinematography, and a great demo. Every scene seems to be chosen for great lighting impact. Never boring, always entertaining and ocassionally instructive. And just about every lighting / composition scenario you can think of, beautifully composed.


----------



## DJG

Rukk said:


> I've had my Elite for 9 days now. Yesterday I played around with the QPP (going back and forth, taking it in and out) and for the life of me, I see no discernible difference. Is it because my set is still going through a "break in" period or is the effect very subtle...or is it just me? Lol


In regular use, I also haven't noticed anything, so I leave it on just in case. But if you put one of those pixel phase / sharpness patterns, you'll definitely see an effect .


----------



## rmongiovi

DJG said:


> It does help make it brighter .


That's what they say. And certainly why they picked yellow as the one additional color to implement. But it only makes the image brighter if you oversaturate yellow. Unless there's some reason that the light output of your green and red sub-pixels is limited, if you restrict yourself to accurately reproducing the encoded video then you could achieve exactly the same brightness with only red, green, and blue sub-pixels.


----------



## DJG

I have to say, my calibration is nowhere near the top light output of the TV, as I go for a really dark black with a backlight of 27 in the ISF mode, which I guess is about -7 in the THX mode.


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## cdiez58

Mikey94025 said:


> But... But... I saw Lt. Sulu say "Wow!" on TV.


When i saw my TV...i said WOW lol


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## lcaillo

rmongiovi said:


> That's what they say. And certainly why they picked yellow as the one additional color to implement. But it only makes the image brighter if you oversaturate yellow. Unless there's some reason that the light output of your green and red sub-pixels is limited, if you restrict yourself to accurately reproducing the encoded video then you could achieve exactly the same brightness with only red, green, and blue sub-pixels.


You don't have to oversaturate yellow to get more brightness with a yellow pixel. Remember, all sets have more blue output than they need available, and in vivid, etc. modes are far too blue. You clould get brighter whites, and thus the highlights on gold and other shiny colors using a yellow pixel and blue to complement it. Now the mix gets complicated, but there is no reason to believe that it cannot be matrixed correctly if the linearity of the various primaries and the yellow pixel are known. 

Saturation is not brightness. it is a measure of how pure a color is or how far it is from white in terms of its colorimetry. Saturation and brightness interact, but not proportionally.


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## rmongiovi

lcaillo said:


> You don't have to oversaturate yellow to get more brightness with a yellow pixel.


That's not the point I was trying to make. My point was if you need more luminance you don't need a yellow sub-pixel. There's no reason all three sub-pixels have to be the same size. If you need more light output, make the red and green sub-pixels larger. There's no need to add a new color to let more light through the screen.


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## lcaillo

Sorry, i did not get your point. This is correct, since we are filtering the available backlight, assuming similar efficiency in yellow and red/green pixels.


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## rmongiovi

lcaillo said:


> Now the mix gets complicated, but there is no reason to believe that it cannot be matrixed correctly if the linearity of the various primaries and the yellow pixel are known.


It seems to me that get a yellow sub-pixel right, you'd have to know the spectral characteristics of the red, green, blue, and yellow filters that are being used in the display. Then, given the spectral characteristics that rec.709 is based on you could compute the correct luminance for all four sub-pixels that the encoded RGB signal intended.

Of course, one solution to that problem is to turn the yellow sub-pixel off and just use RGB, but that's probably not the desired solution since we've already bought into the idea that a yellow sub-pixel is valuable. So the question becomes, what is the appropriate alternative solution? As we divert luminance from the green and red sub-pixels to the yellow, we are removing stimulus from the blue cone in our eyes because yellow light doesn't stimulate it as much as green does. So to keep the stimulus intended by the rec.709 encoding we have to compensate by increasing the luminance of the blue sub-pixel. But blue light also stimulates the green cone so that has to be compensated for as well.

It's not really at all clear to me that it can be done accurately. RGB is based on science and the physiology of the eye. RGB+Y is based on marketing.

I really want to see Sharp's white paper showing how they think they can make this work.


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## lcaillo

Well, they do make it work rather well, but just for the record, I have never been convinced of the inherent value of the yellow pixel. IMO, it is simply a marketing tool to distinguish Sharp from other vendors.


----------



## rmongiovi

lcaillo said:


> Well, they do make it work rather well, but just for the record, I have never been convinced of the inherent value of the yellow pixel. IMO, it is simply a marketing tool to distinguish Sharp from other vendors.


I don't want to start an argument, because I think we mostly agree, but I think it's premature to conclude they make it work rather well.

I don't think it's an accident that they have trouble with cyan, which is green plus blue. If what I said in my previous diatribe about using the yellow sub-pixel is true, then cyan is *exactly* the color I'd expect them to get wrong. And their failure to come up with a patch may demonstrate that it's impossible to correctly utilize a yellow sub-pixel given only an RGB input. Only time will tell....


----------



## mechman

Why would you expect cyan to be wrong because of the yellow pixel? It makes no more sense than saying that "magenta is *exactly* the color you'd expect them to get wrong". :huh: I thought you were doing well right up until then.


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## tomboyter

I found it interesting that LG included and extra pixel in their new OLED panel, bit it's WHITE ... that accounts for some extra brightness but apparently causes no color mixing difficulties like the yellow.


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## lcaillo

So maybe with LEDs they should use a black pixel? Just kidding, of course...


----------



## rmongiovi

mechman said:


> Why would you expect cyan to be wrong because of the yellow pixel? It makes no more sense than saying that "magenta is *exactly* the color you'd expect them to get wrong". :huh: I thought you were doing well right up until then.


Well, technically I'm not saying I expect cyan to be wrong because of the yellow sub-pixel, I'm saying I expect it to be wrong because of the modifications you have to make in an attempt to get an accurate picture from an RGB signal in the presence of a yellow sub-pixel. It's because of the response curves of the cones in the human eye. There's considerable overlap in the response curves of the green cone and the blue cone. So green light has a certain amount of stimulus to the blue cone built in. rec.709 takes that into account.

Look at the graphic at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/vision/colcon.html. Pay attention to which cones different colors of light stimulate. Red light stimulates the red and green cones but really not the blue cones. Green light stimulates the green cones, the red cones, and to a lesser extent the blue cones as well. Blue light stimulates blue and green cones and to a lesser extent the red cones.

So when you move luminance from the red sub-pixel to the yellow sub-pixel, the green and red cones are still being stimulated but the blue cone isn't really affected because neither red nor yellow light really affects it. That's why I wouldn't expect magenta to be affected. Both red and yellow light stimulate the red cone, and any stimulus to the blue cone to make magenta has to come independently from the blue sub-pixel in either case.

But that's not the true when you move luminance from the green sub-pixel to the yellow sub-pixel. Green light provides a stimulus to the blue cone that yellow light does not. To prevent a color shift you have to make up for the lost stimulus to the blue cone by increasing the output from the blue sub-pixel. But there is also an overlap in the response curves of the green cone with blue light. So brightening the blue sub-pixel to make up for the stimulus lost by decreasing the luminance of the green sub-pixel is going to have a side effect of increasing the stimulus to the green cone which is exactly what you don't want.

But it's the overlap in response curves between the green and blue cones that makes me say cyan is where I would expect the problem to be.


----------



## lcaillo

rmongiovi said:


> So when you move luminance from the red sub-pixel to the yellow sub-pixel, the green and red cones are still being stimulated but the blue cone isn't really affected because neither red nor yellow light really affects it.





rmongiovi said:


> But that's not the true when you move luminance from the green sub-pixel to the yellow sub-pixel. Green light provides a stimulus to the blue cone that yellow light does not.


I think that your assumption of a difference in how the cones are stimulated using the yellow pixel has merit, but this last statement is backwards. The yellow light from the yellow pixel is a combination of red and green so it still stimulates in the same way that green does. The problem is that it still contains red which could desaturate cyan. Again, there is no reason that this could not be accounted for in the color decoding if the properties of the filters are known, but the complexity goes up significantly. You are adding another degree of freedom to an already complex system. The probability of getting it right seems greater. 

Regardless, the result is still a pretty good looking set. Not perfect, and certainly a curiosity for guys like us who like to understand this stuff, but most people would never notice the color anomolies in this set any more than they would in many others.


----------



## cdiez58

lcaillo said:


> I think that your assumption of a difference in how the cones are stimulated using the yellow pixel has merit, but this last statement is backwards. The yellow light from the yellow pixel is a combination of red and green so it still stimulates in the same way that green does. The problem is that it still contains red which could desaturate cyan. Again, there is no reason that this could not be accounted for in the color decoding if the properties of the filters are known, but the complexity goes up significantly. You are adding another degree of freedom to an already complex system. The probability of getting it right seems greater.
> 
> Regardless, the result is still a pretty good looking set. Not perfect, and certainly a curiosity for guys like us who like to understand this stuff, but most people would never notice the color anomolies in this set any more than they would in many others.


you guys are missing the point with LCD...you are making assumptions that their three color layers are a perfect red blue and green...and that their LED backlight is perfect white at all backlight settings...someone smarter that me address this.


----------



## rmongiovi

lcaillo said:


> I think that your assumption of a difference in how the cones are stimulated using the yellow pixel has merit, but this last statement is backwards. The yellow light from the yellow pixel is a combination of red and green so it still stimulates in the same way that green does.


We need new terminology for light that actually is in the wavelengths optics call "yellow" and a combination of light in the wavelengths optics calls green and red which when combined are interpreted by the eye as yellow.

The backlight is white light which I presume is a complete spectrum of all available colors of visible light. The yellow filter has highest transmission in the range of wavelengths that optics calls yellow. This is not the same as a combination of light that has green and red wavelengths. It just looks the same to the eye because of our cones.

It's true that the filters used in the TV aren't perfect bandpass filters so they include other wavelengths to a lesser degree. That's why I said we'd have to know the spectral analysis of the filters used in the Elite to get this right. But If you move light from the red filter to the yellow filter you're still moving stimulus away from the blue cone. To keep the saturation of yellow within the rec.709 gamut you have to artificially add back in the missing blue stimulus.

And it's that attempt to moderate the yellow saturation that I suspect is the problem.


----------



## Rukk

DJG said:


> In regular use, I also haven't noticed anything, so I leave it on just in case. But if you put one of those pixel phase / sharpness patterns, you'll definitely see an effect .



I'm going to do the same thing for a while. Is there any particular reason Cnet leaves OPC turned off? Or QPP for that matter?


----------



## lcaillo

rmongiovi said:


> We need new terminology for light that actually is in the wavelengths optics call "yellow" and a combination of light in the wavelengths optics calls green and red which when combined are interpreted by the eye as yellow.
> 
> The backlight is white light which I presume is a complete spectrum of all available colors of visible light. The yellow filter has highest transmission in the range of wavelengths that optics calls yellow. This is not the same as a combination of light that has green and red wavelengths. It just looks the same to the eye because of our cones.
> 
> It's true that the filters used in the TV aren't perfect bandpass filters so they include other wavelengths to a lesser degree. That's why I said we'd have to know the spectral analysis of the filters used in the Elite to get this right. But If you move light from the red filter to the yellow filter you're still moving stimulus away from the blue cone. To keep the saturation of yellow within the rec.709 gamut you have to artificially add back in the missing blue stimulus.
> 
> And it's that attempt to moderate the yellow saturation that I suspect is the problem.


We really don't need new terminology. As has been said before above, the important information is the relation of the spectrum of light in each primary and in the yellow pixel to the spectral response of the visual system that is codified by CIE curves. Several of us are saying essentially the same thing. The colors of the pixels are imperfect representations of the spectral response of the rods and cones of the eye and the yellow is some combination of the spectrum of red and green. I have not measured the spectrum of the primaries and yellow in these sets, but I am sure that Sharp has. They had to in order to build a color algorithm for the four pixel system. The results are surprisingly close to the best three pixel sets, IMO, and it should be no surprise that there are anomolies.

While the saturation of yellow is certainly an issue, the relative luminance of the primaries and secondaries and the inability to correct both are likely to express themselves as problems. Oversaturation should never be an insurmountable problem because you can add complementary colors to reduce that saturation. That is, if you build your color system to be able to do so.


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## rmongiovi

But you see, yellow light *isn't* a combination of red and green light. Yellow light has a wavelength of 560 to 590 nm. Green light has a wavelength of 490 to 560 nm, and red light has a wavelength of 635 to 700 nm. Mixing wavelengths of light together doesn't change the frequencies of the light that was mixed together. If I combined green and red light together it would look like yellow to my eye but a prism would split it back into green and red. If I used a yellow filter to create yellow light it would also look like yellow to my eye, but it would pass through the prism and come out as yellow.

We can use a combination of green and red light to simulate yellow because light in the yellow frequency range stimulates both the red and green cones. But when I do that simulation I cannot simulate saturated yellow. The reason I cannot simulate saturated yellow is that the green light I'm using in my simulation also stimulates the blue cone. That's the reason for the shape of the CIE triangle.

A true yellow sub-pixel as is present in the Elite does not have that constraint. Since it's generating light in the actual yellow frequency range it can stimulate the green and red cones without stimulating the blue cone as much as we're forced to do with our green/red simulation. We can see that this is happening because the uncorrected yellow of the Elite lies outside the CIE gamut. To desaturate yellow they have to add in blue from the blue sub-pixel.


----------



## mechman

rmongiovi said:


> But you see, yellow light *isn't* a combination of red and green light. Yellow light has a wavelength of 560 to 590 nm. Green light has a wavelength of 490 to 560 nm, and red light has a wavelength of 635 to 700 nm. Mixing wavelengths of light together doesn't change the frequencies of the light that was mixed together. If I combined green and red light together it would look like yellow to my eye but a prism would split it back into green and red.


Yes, for the purposes here in this particular forum, yellow light *is* a combination of red and green light. The Elite may have a slight variation due to the addition of the yellow pixel but that doesn't change the fact that in display technology, yellow is created from red and green.



rmongiovi said:


> If I used a yellow filter to create yellow light it would also look like yellow to my eye, but it would pass through the prism and come out as yellow.


No. Yellow light passing through a prism would come out as green and red. Unless you are using a pure single wavelength yellow. And I don't think the Sharp Elite display possesses that technology - ie laser.

This thread is getting a bit off topic. All of this from an small error in an algorithm? :scratch:


----------



## lcaillo

Correct. The light starts as the spectrum of the backlight and is filtered. To get yellow, the blue end of the spectrum is blocked. When we see yellow light it is because there is red and green light and an absence of blue.


----------



## rmongiovi

mechman said:


> No. Yellow light passing through a prism would come out as green and red. Unless you are using a pure single wavelength yellow. And I don't think the Sharp Elite display possesses that technology - ie laser.


No, of course it doesn't have a laser, not a red laser nor a green laser nor a blue laser and not even a yellow laser.

But it does have filters that pass particular frequencies of the backlight and block out others. And the yellow filter does pass yellow light so the yellow pixel is not red plus green light; it's yellow light. I'm sure its frequency response does bleed over to each side of pure yellow but I think there's no reason to believe it isn't just a bandpass filter with maximum transmission in the yellow range of the spectrum. Why would you think it's red plus green?

And you're exactly right. In normal RGB light we perceive as yellow is simulated using red and green light. That's what the rec.709 standard is based on. But in the Elite we have true yellow light which doesn't behave precisely the same in the retina. And that's my thesis for why the Elite has color problems. The light from the yellow sub-pixel that it tries to use doesn't fit in the rec.709 standard and isn't entirely equivalent.


----------



## rolling green

new update available 216u1202081- rumor says this is for a power issue not pulsing or cyan


----------



## aleicgrant

paging Dr Robert Zohn, Dr Zohn. what say you on the firmware


----------



## Weaselboy

rolling green said:


> new update available 216u1202081- rumor says this is for a power issue not pulsing or cyan


Someone posted on AVS they called Sharp and this is what they were told.


----------



## lynskyn

I let the update happen and the discrete codes still work, so I guess that's good for folks who didn't want to use the 2.15 beta.


----------



## 26point2

rolling green said:


> new update available 216u1202081- rumor says this is for a power issue not pulsing or cyan


Because I'm lazy and don't want to search...what was the power issue?

Thanks.


----------



## Radtech51

Hi Robert, it's been so quiet lately any new news to report yet?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Radtech51 said:


> Hi Robert, it's been so quiet lately any new news to report yet?


Well since sharp just released prices for their upcoming TV's, my guess is that they are looking ahead, and won't be focusing on these current issues much longer, especially the pulsing issue.especially since there are many owners who are just ok with it as they use thx mode, which either eliminates it, or hides to some degree depending on who's looking. Even tho, I'm in the camp that	*can* deal with it, I still called and voiced my complaint, as everyone should to try to push then to do something about it. I just don't think Sharp is all that concerned with this particular issue. At least that's the feeling I get when I call about it. Don't get me wrong, I've talked with two very polite, and respectful customer care reps, but even they denied knowing about this issue.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

GeneWildersHair said:


> Well since sharp just released prices for their upcoming TV's, my guess is that they are looking ahead, and won't be focusing on these current issues much longer, especially the pulsing issue.especially since there are many owners who are just ok with it as they use thx mode, which either eliminates it, or hides to some degree depending on who's looking. Even tho, I'm in the camp that	*can* deal with it, I still called and voiced my complaint, as everyone should to try to push then to do something about it. I just don't think Sharp is all that concerned with this particular issue. At least that's the feeling I get when I call about it. Don't get me wrong, I've talked with two very polite, and respectful customer care reps, but even they denied knowing about this issue.


Just because Sharp released prices doesn't mean they stop correcting previous products. For example, my Sony BDP-S1, the original Bluray player has gotten updates this past year. Meanwhile, the player is 5 years old. And because there's an issue on a TV, doesn't mean they hold off on future products till this is fixed. They have a dedicated team of engineers just on the Elite. I'm not concerned. As far as the reps you're talking to, you have to talk to someone above their level. The supervisors and managers are in the know.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct ^^ again as usual Mike. 

Regarding the latest FW update, manufacturers never disclose everything new FW does, but the main fix is an issue that would cause the set to unnecessarily shut down and cause the power light to flash continuously.

-Robert


----------



## chansensturm

Just wanted to shout out a "Hello" to everyone in this forum ! This is a great group.

I've been slowly working my way through this thread over the last month(s). Like many, I'm sure, I've been agonizing over whether to pull the trigger on a new ElitePro. 

I am, of course, concerned about the two primary issues/defects being creatively debated here. Ironically, my concern is driven from the fact that the subset of the Pioneer team at Sharp understands the fidelity requirements for a product at this level, and they have been given an unusually large development budget. This isn't your typical engineering group. Hence, I am surprised that a color decode issue like this even made it through their QA process - given the engineering talent behind this display's design. Is it possible that this unusual color space conversion, viewed as an abstract mathematical model, simply cannot actually be made to work in practice, given the constraints of their hardware (either the DSP or the display) ? 

I'm banking on the fact that this is a simple coding fix, but there is always the chance that RGB+Y is a somewhat flawed concept that, for whatever reason, only makes it more difficult to do accurate, realtime, color space conversion or post-processing/color-correction. Perhaps the equations become saturated, underflow, or are just that much more complex that subtle programming errors kick in. I just do not know, but I am enough of an optimist to hope that this is might come down to simple coefficient round-off error ;-)

But it is because of forums like this, as well as businesses who support the enthusiast community, who pushed me in the direction of getting the 60X5FD. So I'll be watching my first 1080p native content this Saturday on a state of the art display. It is a huge step up for my household. I'm genuinely excited, but the D-Nice's of the world - I have to admit - have taken the edge off this purchase.

Thanks, to everyone, for keeping the pressure on Sharp to fix these issues. 

cheers
--craig


----------



## aleicgrant

I have to say im really getting upset with Elite and specifically Will. After back and forth vm rounds we spoke yesterday only to have him stop the conversation after a minute and asked to call me right back. That was 24 hours ago. My patience is growing really thin


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Just because Sharp released prices doesn't mean they stop correcting previous products. For example, my Sony BDP-S1, the original Bluray player has gotten updates this past year. Meanwhile, the player is 5 years old. And because there's an issue on a TV, doesn't mean they hold off on future products till this is fixed. They have a dedicated team of engineers just on the Elite. I'm not concerned. As far as the reps you're talking to, you have to talk to someone above their level. The supervisors and managers are in the know.


I certainly Hope they don't stop trying to fix these issues, but as a consumer of several "high end" products over the years with widely known problems, that have never been addressed by other companies, I admit I've grown a bit cynical over the years. I also do not mean any disrespect but I find It funny you mention the supervisors "in the know", as I've been supposedly pushed to a higher level of help concerning this pulsing issue, and on two occasions have been told that I would be receiving a call from these supervisors about my issues. Hasn't happened yet, and it's been oh about a week and a half since I've spoken to the last customer rep. I'd really like to know, other than you and Robert here, just how many folks that have complained, have gotten decent feedback from supervisors in the know?


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

GeneWildersHair said:


> I certainly Hope they don't stop trying to fix these issues, but as a consumer of several "high end" products over the years with widely known problems, that have never been addressed by other companies, I admit I've grown a bit cynical over the years. I also do not mean any disrespect but I find It funny you mention the supervisors "in the know", as I've been supposedly pushed to a higher level of help concerning this pulsing issue, and on two occasions have been told that I would be receiving a call from these supervisors about my issues. Hasn't happened yet, and it's been oh about a week and a half since I've spoken to the last customer rep. I'd really like to know, other than you and Robert here, just how many folks that have complained, have gotten decent feedback from supervisors in the know?


I could understand your frustration. I have plenty of high end products as well ranging from personal audio (i.e. a custom 1900+ watt JL Audio system in my boat) to DJ equipment (i.e. Allen & Heath Xone 4D mixer, Pioneer CDJs, etc) to now an Elite 70" tv. I've had issues here and there, but you have to expect it with cutting technology. It's the price we pay for being first to own them. The fact that the company is trying to rectify it is a good thing. You can have it go the other way where a company like Sony said in a letter to customers in August 2011 that the 929 was performing normally and find no reason to make a recall due to the crease issues. With a comment like that while I was in the market for one of them, I said they can keep it, just based on their shrugging off of customers concerns. God forbid if there was any other anomaly outside of the crease issue at the time. You wouldn't even think there would be anyone to speak to except for some lame tech support from India asking if you plugged the unit to a proper outlet.

And to be really honest, you bought this TV after all these issues were well documented, and should have considered if these items are an issue for you before buying ESPECIALLY due to the huge committment you make to buy it. For people like me, Ken Ross, & Radtech who were the first group to buy into this back in September, we knew there may be some risk especially with no reviews on it back then except for Kevin Miller's on a preproduction unit. This will be the case even when the NEXT elite comes or if it does depending on Sharp's cutbacks. Lastly, the cyan issue and flickering are not bad enough to ruin my experience, luckily. Ever since I had my Elite replaced last month, I haven't had any flickering issues. But then again, I didn't try to look for them just like I didn't try to look for defective pixels. There's no sense to driving yourself nuts. 

I honestly think that the people you are talking to must be new or simply reading off of cue cards to screen calls before going up to higher knowledge people. I just called a moment ago on an update, and they were well aware of the situation on the two items as I've previously said on here. There's no change, but I was informed that I along with a few others will be the first to get the update news since we helped provide the content that helped them spot the errors. As soon as I get the info, I will pass it along. I'm surprised Aleicgrant had an issue with Will. He was very helpful whenever I spoke to him. It doesn't sound like him, but then again, who knows....


----------



## DJG

Life is good!

I've found where my calibration discrepancies were coming from. For some reason using the AVS HD 709 calibration BD I burned is not cutting it.

I finally got my Radiance back so I did a D65 709 calibration using the Radiance as the pattern source. Holy Molly! The CMS values I was getting were very different from what I got from the calibration BD, and I thought the Radiance was doing something weird.

Well, lo and behold, I ended up with a beautiful neutral actually grey scale with basically no banding and gorgeous more striking images and no apparent unintended coloring.

The funny thing is the AVS HD disc shows the red channel clipping heavily, yet look at the danged gorgeous image with natural skin tones I'm getting! With the right source material of course.

I'm watching Something Borrowed in DirecTV HBO2, and the colors are spectacularly natural and captivating with great depth.


----------



## DJG

GeneWildersHair said:


> I certainly Hope they don't stop trying to fix these issues, but as a consumer of several "high end" products over the years with widely known problems, that have never been addressed by other companies, I admit I've grown a bit cynical over the years. I also do not mean any disrespect but I find It funny you mention the supervisors "in the know", as I've been supposedly pushed to a higher level of help concerning this pulsing issue, and on two occasions have been told that I would be receiving a call from these supervisors about my issues. Hasn't happened yet, and it's been oh about a week and a half since I've spoken to the last customer rep. I'd really like to know, other than you and Robert here, just how many folks that have complained, have gotten decent feedback from supervisors in the know?


OK, I'm with you, but what ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty"? . Let's cut them some slack, as I'm sure the solution is not going to be in the order of "we changed a 1 to a 0 in one of the lines of code", never mind doing regression testing on what have to be a gazillion local dimming scenarios that can be affected .


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I could understand your frustration. I have plenty of high end products as well ranging from personal audio (i.e. a custom 1900+ watt JL Audio system in my boat) to DJ equipment (i.e. Allen & Heath Xone 4D mixer, Pioneer CDJs, etc) to now an Elite 70" tv. I've had issues here and there, but you have to expect it with cutting technology. It's the price we pay for being first to own them. The fact that the company is trying to rectify it is a good thing. You can have it go the other way where a company like Sony said in a letter to customers in August 2011 that the 929 was performing normally and find no reason to make a recall due to the crease issues. With a comment like that while I was in the market for one of them, I said they can keep it, just based on their shrugging off of customers concerns. God forbid if there was any other anomaly outside of the crease issue at the time. You wouldn't even think there would be anyone to speak to except for some lame tech support from India asking if you plugged the unit to a proper outlet.
> 
> And to be really honest, you bought this TV after all these issues were well documented, and should have considered if these items are an issue for you before buying ESPECIALLY due to the huge committment you make to buy it. For people like me, Ken Ross, & Radtech who were the first group to buy into this back in September, we knew there may be some risk especially with no reviews on it back then except for Kevin Miller's on a preproduction unit. This will be the case even when the NEXT elite comes or if it does depending on Sharp's cutbacks. Lastly, the cyan issue and flickering are not bad enough to ruin my experience, luckily. Ever since I had my Elite replaced last month, I haven't had any flickering issues. But then again, I didn't try to look for them just like I didn't try to look for defective pixels. There's no sense to driving yourself nuts.
> 
> I honestly think that the people you are talking to must be new or simply reading off of cue cards to screen calls before going up to higher knowledge people. I just called a moment ago on an update, and they were well aware of the situation on the two items as I've previously said on here. There's no change, but I was informed that I along with a few others will be the first to get the update news since we helped provide the content that helped them spot the errors. As soon as I get the info, I will pass it along. I'm surprised Aleicgrant had an issue with Will. He was very helpful whenever I spoke to him. It doesn't sound like him, but then again, who knows....


Thank you for a great response here! the fact that most, if not all on this forum are pretty knowledgeable, and helpful make this a place I will keep coming back to. To respond on a couple things here, first let me just clarify that yes I was fully aware of the issues, and I am not bothered to the point of it ruining my watching experience either. At no point have i even thought for a second, about having buyers remorse. My point in all this, is that even though some of us aren't necessarily bothered by a "known" issue, It doesn't change the fact that there are some that are bothered by it, and by calling and complaining, I am just trying to do my part in pushing for a fix. That said, I love this TV, in fact after watching it about a week and then going back to my XBR4 just the other night to watch a movie in the other room with my wife, we were both shocked at the now grey looking blacks of that set! Wow, what a difference, and that set was professionally calibrated years ago, and has always received comments on how great it's picture quality was. Lol... It honestly looks washed out, and lacks depthwhen compared to the picture I get out of the box with this Elite! Oh and I decided to call again today, and I too was informed that engineers were hard at work on this flicker and the cyan issue. Again thank you for your response, and being one if the first who helped document this issue.


----------



## chansensturm

On the assumption that the cyan issue can't (or won't) be fixed, how close can calibration compensate for the decoder error ? 

cheers
--craig


----------



## dsskid

DJ Mike Fury said:


> And to be really honest, you bought this TV after all these issues were well documented, and should have considered if these items are an issue for you before buying ESPECIALLY due to the huge committment you make to buy it. For people like me, Ken Ross, & Radtech who were the first group to buy into this back in September, we knew there may be some risk especially with no reviews on it back then except for Kevin Miller's on a preproduction unit.


To be fair, it was stated at the shootout in October, and posted here, that Sharp would have a cyan fix in about 4 weeks (November). I'm sure many made went ahead with their purchase based on this premise. 

That being said, except for the critical eye, the cyan issue would be overlooked by the most if it wasn't pointed out to them, and the Sharp Elite is still a great display, even with the cyan issue. 

The flickering issue is another story, as it doesn't appear to be as widespread.


----------



## Morphine_Sulfate

Hi Everyone,
I am new to this forum. I am awaiting delivery of my elite pro-60x5fd. Between June and December of 2011 I bought 6 TVs: Samsung PN64D8000; Panasonic 65VT30; Sony 55HX929; Samsung PN64D7000; Samsung UN55D8000; Sony 60NX720. 
I kept one, and returned the rest. They are all very good sets, each with its own cons and pros. So I don't expect the elite to be perfect, I just expect it's cons to be better the rest. 
Can't wait! Thanks for your contributions. :neener:


----------



## GeneWildersHair

dsskid said:


> To be fair, it was stated at the shootout in October, and posted here, that Sharp would have a cyan fix in about 4 weeks (November). I'm sure many made went ahead with their purchase based on this premise.
> 
> That being said, except for the critical eye, the cyan issue would be overlooked by the most if it wasn't pointed out to them, and the Sharp Elite is still a great display, even with the cyan issue.
> 
> The flickering issue is another story, as it doesn't appear to be as widespread.


I believe the flickering is indeed there on all Elites, at least to some degree. Some modes definitely show it more than others, but it is there.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Morphine_Sulfate said:


> Hi Everyone,
> I am new to this forum. I am awaiting delivery of my elite pro-60x5fd. Between June and December of 2011 I bought 6 TVs: Samsung PN64D8000; Panasonic 65VT30; Sony 55HX929; Samsung PN64D7000; Samsung UN55D8000; Sony 60NX720.
> I kept one, and returned the rest. They are all very good sets, each with its own cons and pros. So I don't expect the elite to be perfect, I just expect it's cons to be better the rest.
> Can't wait! Thanks for your contributions. :neener:


The Elite, even with it's current issues, definitely produces the best picture out there! After watching this set for awhile, then going back to my old Sony XBR4, it clearly made the Sony look washed out, and old. The black levels alone are amazing on this set! That and skin tones are also impressive. Hell the whole picture makes anything you watch that much more exciting to view.


----------



## dsskid

I agree. There is no perfect display. Research the inherent shortcomings of each, and decide which you can most easily deal with.


----------



## DJG

"I believe the flickering is indeed there on all Elites, at least to some degree. Some modes definitely show it more than others, but it is there."

I believe you're right - it's inherent in the LD mechanism, but can often be taken as part of the video content because of it's appearance. It seems to be affected both by content and AV mode, which are in the domain of the LD mechanism. I've seen mild versions of it.


----------



## rmongiovi

Tom Huffman's recommendation to me was to not bother with the CMS at all since there's no evidence it can really make it better and it might make it worse.

My understanding is that color tracking for all the colors is pretty pitiful.


----------



## DJG

My experience with CMS has been it can make it better and it can make it worse. Not sure why anyone would recommend not optimizing it. Right now it's making it way better, but as always YMMV.


----------



## rmongiovi

I asked if he had recommendations for calibrating the Elite and that's what he said.

If it tracks color badly you'd have to measure at multiple levels to see if you've actually improved the overall accuracy or not. If you've got the test patterns to see that I'd love to see the results.


----------



## Ken Ross

chansensturm said:


> But it is because of forums like this, as well as businesses who support the enthusiast community, who pushed me in the direction of getting the 60X5FD. So I'll be watching my first 1080p native content this Saturday on a state of the art display. It is a huge step up for my household. I'm genuinely excited, but the D-Nice's of the world - I have to admit - have taken the edge off this purchase.
> 
> Thanks, to everyone, for keeping the pressure on Sharp to fix these issues.
> 
> cheers
> --craig


Craig, to say I'm disappointed with the way D-Nice handled this entire issue, would be the understatement of the world. I'll be very blunt here, whatever damage he did to the sales of the Elite, he should be personally ashamed of. To blow this thing way way way out of proportion the way he did (not to mention the way he actually handled it over on the other forum) is truly shocking and something I've not seem him do in prior years.

Suffice is to say, IMO, this display is the best I've ever seen...and this comes from a Pro 151 owner whose Pro 151 hasn't been warmer than room temperature is quite some time.

A good time to give kudos to Kevin Miller who ISF'd my Elite yesterday. The formally fantastic picture I had with the CNET settings has been even further improved thanks to Kevin's magic. BTW, I demonstrated the pulsing issue for Kevin in non-THX movie mode. I'm happy to report that the pulsing does not exist (at least on my unit) in ISF mode.

Craig, let your eyes be the judge and don't rely on people who may or may not have hidden agendas.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Life is good!
> 
> I've found where my calibration discrepancies were coming from. For some reason using the AVS HD 709 calibration BD I burned is not cutting it.
> 
> I finally got my Radiance back so I did a D65 709 calibration using the Radiance as the pattern source. Holy Molly! The CMS values I was getting were very different from what I got from the calibration BD, and I thought the Radiance was doing something weird.
> 
> Well, lo and behold, I ended up with a beautiful neutral actually grey scale with basically no banding and gorgeous more striking images and no apparent unintended coloring.
> 
> The funny thing is the AVS HD disc shows the red channel clipping heavily, yet look at the danged gorgeous image with natural skin tones I'm getting! With the right source material of course.
> 
> I'm watching Something Borrowed in DirecTV HBO2, and the colors are spectacularly natural and captivating with great depth.


Good to hear DJG! There are so many things that can go wrong with calibrations...especially when we're not really trained to do this kind of thing. It's a unique combination of art & science.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> My experience with CMS has been it can make it better and it can make it worse. Not sure why anyone would recommend not optimizing it. Right now it's making it way better, but as always YMMV.


I agree. That's really really bad advice in my book. Kevin Miller used those controls extensively in his calibration. If you don't know what you're doing, then yes, you can mess things up with the CMS. I'm an advocate of a professional calibration as I know they'd do a better job than would I (assuming you have the right calibrator).


----------



## lcaillo

Ken, I would love to see the data from Kevin's calibration if you are willing to share it. I am sure it would put the cyan "problem" in perspective.


----------



## Ken Ross

lcaillo said:


> Ken, I would love to see the data from Kevin's calibration if you are willing to share it. I am sure it would put the cyan "problem" in perspective.


Here ya go Icaillo:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/tmmwe7m667k3lbz/Ross


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Ken Ross said:


> Here ya go Icaillo:
> 
> http://www.mediafire.com/file/tmmwe7m667k3lbz/Ross


Ken,

Your picture must look excellent since Kevin worked his magic!

Mike


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Ken,
> 
> Your picture must look excellent since Kevin worked his magic!
> 
> Mike


Absolutely stunning Mike! The only concern I have is that I'm thinking I should have had Kevin disengage the "Standard" setting for the motion enhancement mode. I occasionally am seeing a motion glitch with the Standard setting.

Previously I used no motion enhancement at all. I experimented with some material I have on my DVR in the THX mode, and each time I engaged the motion enhancement to "Standard", I'd see the same occasional glitch I see in the ISF mode.

I'll see how it goes, but if it continues to bother me I might call Kevin to have him set all motion enhancements to 'off' as I previously had. Otherwise the picture itself is just amazing.


----------



## DJG

Or you could use something like ControlCAL to do simple adjustments of this kind.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Has anyone felt the 80" sharp may be too big? I can fit it, but I actually got a weird dizzying feeling when I saw it from best buy at about 12-14 ft away.. I felt like I couldn't focus on the whole screen.. This leads me to wonder on the possible elite...


----------



## DJG

For me I was lucky to fit the 70" in my den. I was first thinking of the 60" but I'm soooo happy I did the 70!


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Has anyone felt the 80" sharp may be too big? I can fit it, but I actually got a weird dizzying feeling when I saw it from best buy at about 12-14 ft away.. I felt like I couldn't focus on the whole screen.. This leads me to wonder on the possible elite...


The issue I had with the 80" size was the overall soft look of the picture.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Or you could use something like ControlCAL to do simple adjustments of this kind.


That's true and I used it with my Kuro, but I thought the profile for the Elite wasn't yet finalized.


----------



## buzzard767

Ken Ross said:


> That's true and I used it with my Kuro, but I thought the profile for the Elite wasn't yet finalized.


http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=790


----------



## aleicgrant

GeneWildersHair said:


> The issue I had with the 80" size was the overall soft look of the picture.


A calibrated 80 is a worthy competitor to the elite. It wont win a head on battle but certainly give it a run for the money


----------



## GeneWildersHair

aleicgrant said:


> A calibrated 80 is a worthy competitor to the elite. It wont win a head on battle but certainly give it a run for the money


Really? I would never if thought considering the terrible PQ, of the current 80", (pre-calibration of course.) Not to mention all the local dimming zones, and processing power that make the Elite, so well...elite. I guess I would just need to see one post calibration, cuz at this point I don't buy that it would, or could be a "worthy competitor", in any category other than size.


----------



## aleicgrant

well for one it doesnt have a cyan issue or a pulsing issue..... all kidding aside, the 80 is a very fine panel especially when calibrated. I was speaking in jest when I said close competitor but to be honest its not too much further off that mark. the size makes it immerse as anything out there.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

aleicgrant said:


> well for one it doesnt have a cyan issue or a pulsing issue..... all kidding aside, the 80 is a very fine panel especially when calibrated. I was speaking in jest when I said close competitor but to be honest its not too much further off that mark. the size makes it immerse as anything out there.


I hear ya on the size, but my 70" is definitely immersive enough, considering I sit about 8 feet away lol. The 80 wouldn't immerse me, it would engulf me...lol.


----------



## Rukk

aleicgrant said:


> A calibrated 80 is a worthy competitor to the elite. It wont win a head on battle but certainly give it a run for the money


As lousy as the PQ is on the Sharp 70's/80's, to even suggest that they would be worthy competitors if calibrated means the settings on those tv's must be WAY off out the box! If that is true, then that's a sad commentary for Sharp.


----------



## aleicgrant

Rukk said:


> As lousy as the PQ is on the Sharp 70's/80's, to even suggest that they would be worthy competitors if calibrated means the settings on those tv's must be WAY off out the box! If that is true, then that's a sad commentary for Sharp.


Ive owned over 20 flat panels from all makes and everyone has needed some sort of adjustment

And the lack of quattron on the 80 has made it universally a great set once calibrated for the $

I am not making this a competition between the elite and the 80 let me assure you


----------



## Rukk

aleicgrant said:


> Ive owned over 20 flat panels from all makes and everyone has needed some sort of adjustment
> 
> And the lack of quattron on the 80 has made it universally a great set once calibrated for the $
> 
> I am not making this a competition between the elite and the 80 let me assure you



I understand fully. I've owned 5 myself and wholeheartedly agree. Even this beautiful set...I can't wait until I get 100 hrs on it so I can get it calibrated. I would love to see the benefits of RBG+Y without the picture appearing too yellow (My point of view anyway).


----------



## lcaillo

Rukk said:


> As lousy as the PQ is on the Sharp 70's/80's, to even suggest that they would be worthy competitors if calibrated means the settings on those tv's must be WAY off out the box! If that is true, then that's a sad commentary for Sharp.


I have seen the 70 right out of the box and I would hardly call it lousy. Every set is way off OOB. Have you seen the Elite? There is not a single set on the market that is not significantly improved with calibration. The same commentary can be made of every manufacturer.

There should be no benefit at all to the +Y design. Properly calibrated it should look just like a three pixel set. The standards don't change just because you add another pixel.


----------



## chansensturm

Ken Ross said:


> Craig, to say I'm disappointed with the way D-Nice handled this entire issue, would be the understatement of the world. I'll be very blunt here, whatever damage he did to the sales of the Elite, he should be personally ashamed of. To blow this thing way way way out of proportion the way he did (not to mention the way he actually handled it over on the other forum) is truly shocking and something I've not seem him do in prior years.
> 
> Suffice is to say, IMO, this display is the best I've ever seen...and this comes from a Pro 151 owner whose Pro 151 hasn't been warmer than room temperature is quite some time.
> 
> A good time to give kudos to Kevin Miller who ISF'd my Elite yesterday. The formally fantastic picture I had with the CNET settings has been even further improved thanks to Kevin's magic. BTW, I demonstrated the pulsing issue for Kevin in non-THX movie mode. I'm happy to report that the pulsing does not exist (at least on my unit) in ISF mode.
> 
> Craig, let your eyes be the judge and don't rely on people who may or may not have hidden agendas.


Well my 60" was delivered yesterday and I've somehow managed to log 18+ hours in front of it so far (!) 

Let me cut to the chase. All of my pre-purchase doubts, washed away upon my first viewing of Baraka (amazing disk, possibly one of the best 70mm digital transfers ever made). Unbelievable pq.

All I can say is this: I'm in shock over the FUD campaign swirling around this product, and am further embarrassed that I let this "torture" me for so long. Whatever the self-serving motives behind this might be - I would encourage others sitting on the fence to not let this overly influence any purchase decision. The absolutists are in the weeds here. End of story.

Yes, out of the box, this display will require color calibration - the CNET settings shift skin tones too much to the yellow on my unit. 

Oh, and just to be slightly contrarian. I'm glad I bought the 60" because the 70" seemed a just la tad soft to me when viewing sub-optimal/upsampled content (and there is rather lot of that out there). Of course, your mileage will vary, and I am constrained by having a very small room.

In any event, I hope this "sample size of one" opinion might resonate with others on sitting the fence. Do yourself a favor, ignore the FUD, and, as Ken suggests, use your eyes. Absolutely no trace of buyers remorse here !

cheers
--craig


----------



## Rukk

lcaillo said:


> I have seen the 70 right out of the box and I would hardly call it lousy. Every set is way off OOB. Have you seen the Elite? There is not a single set on the market that is not significantly improved with calibration. The same commentary can be made of every manufacturer.


Yes I have (See my signature). And just like YOU wouldn't say the set is lousy out the box (I do), I wouldn't say every set is "way" off OOB. After doing "in home" cal with a disc, I hardly had to change anything (note I said "hardly"). I DO agree that every set is in need of some professional tweaking and are "off" in some way, but these sets could stand on their own more than most other sets could.


----------



## Rukk

chansensturm said:


> Well my 60" was delivered yesterday and I've somehow managed to log 18+ hours in front of it so far (!)
> 
> Let me cut to the chase. All of my pre-purchase doubts, washed away upon my first viewing of Baraka (amazing disk, possibly one of the best 70mm digital transfers ever made). Unbelievable pq.
> 
> All I can say is this: I'm in shock over the FUD campaign swirling around this product, and am further embarrassed that I let this "torture" me for so long. Whatever the self-serving motives behind this might be - I would encourage others sitting on the fence to not let this overly influence any purchase decision. The absolutists are in the weeds here. End of story.
> 
> Yes, out of the box, this display will require color calibration - the CNET settings shift skin tones too much to the yellow on my unit.
> 
> Oh, and just to be slightly contrarian. I'm glad I bought the 60" because the 70" seemed a just la tad soft to me when viewing sub-optimal/upsampled content (and there is rather lot of that out there). Of course, your mileage will vary, and I am constrained by having a very small room.
> 
> In any event, I hope this "sample size of one" opinion might resonate with others on sitting the fence. Do yourself a favor, ignore the FUD, and, as Ken suggests, use your eyes. Absolutely no trace of buyers remorse here !
> 
> cheers
> --craig


I'm with you one hun on this. No remorse in the slightest. I must ask however, have you tweaked your set in a way that lessens the yellow skin tones and if so, what did you do (I, as well as many have experienced this same issue. The theory is it has something to do with the aforementioned yellow sub pixel)?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

chansensturm said:


> Let me cut to the chase. All of my pre-purchase doubts, washed away upon my first viewing of Baraka (amazing disk, possibly one of the best 70mm digital transfers ever made). Unbelievable pq.


I have to agree here, by far the best PQ on blu ray to date!


----------



## Ken Ross

chansensturm said:


> All I can say is this: I'm in shock over the FUD campaign swirling around this product, and am further embarrassed that I let this "torture" me for so long. Whatever the self-serving motives behind this might be - I would encourage others sitting on the fence to not let this overly influence any purchase decision. The absolutists are in the weeds here. End of story.
> cheers
> --craig


Craig, I couldn't agree more. Frankly I've never seen anything like it in the world of video. During the Kuro days we'd get some guys saying various ridiculous things about those displays, but nothing approaching what you see on some of the forums these days regarding the Elite. 

To take such an amazing display like this and trash it...well, what can you say about the motivations that drive some to do this?


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Ken Ross said:


> To take such an amazing display like this and trash it...well, what can you say about the motivations that drive some to do this?


All I can say is that some people define themselves by their material possessions. When that happens, they feel threatened by other material possessions that are better, shinier or newer than theirs. That leaves only three courses of action: 1) be happy with what you have, or 3) get the latest and greatest thing, or 3) if you can't afford or otherwise obtain the latest and greatest thing, trash what others have so that in your mind you still feel that you have the best. I think we know who falls into #3...


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> Craig, to say I'm disappointed with the way D-Nice handled this entire issue, would be the understatement of the world. I'll be very blunt here, whatever damage he did to the sales of the Elite, he should be personally ashamed of. To blow this thing way way way out of proportion the way he did (not to mention the way he actually handled it over on the other forum) is truly shocking and something I've not seem him do in prior years.
> 
> Suffice is to say, IMO, this display is the best I've ever seen...and this comes from a Pro 151 owner whose Pro 151 hasn't been warmer than room temperature is quite some time.
> 
> A good time to give kudos to Kevin Miller who ISF'd my Elite yesterday. The formally fantastic picture I had with the CNET settings has been even further improved thanks to Kevin's magic. BTW, I demonstrated the pulsing issue for Kevin in non-THX movie mode. I'm happy to report that the pulsing does not exist (at least on my unit) in ISF mode.
> 
> Craig, let your eyes be the judge and don't rely on people who may or may not have hidden agendas.


Well stated my friend I agree 100%
PS: I'm looking forward to my calibration date with Kevin very excited buddy! :sn:


----------



## Ken Ross

AZREOSpecialist said:


> All I can say is that some people define themselves by their material possessions. When that happens, they feel threatened by other material possessions that are better, shinier or newer than theirs. That leaves only three courses of action: 1) be happy with what you have, or 3) get the latest and greatest thing, or 3) if you can't afford or otherwise obtain the latest and greatest thing, trash what others have so that in your mind you still feel that you have the best. I think we know who falls into #3...


Sure do!


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Well stated my friend I agree 100%
> PS: I'm looking forward to my calibration date with Kevin very excited buddy! :sn:


You'll love what Kevin does to the picture Rad. Just make sure you're happy with the 'Standard' motion setting that Kevin uses before he leaves. That's the only thing I'd change. 

I'm getting ControlCAL, so I'm going to try and disengage it myself. If I have an issue I'll have him come back. He lives not too far from me.


----------



## DJG

Don't laugh but here's my current calibration results using an i1 Pro meter, Radiance-XD for pattern generation, CalMAN DIY with the Interactive plug-in as the calibration engine, and ControlCAL for doing and managing the settings. Connection to the Elite is wireless LAN and to the Radiance serial RS-232. Gamut calibration was done at 75%.

This is my current result after many sessions trying different settings (backlight, brightness, contrast and gamma) and approaches in the CMS and 10-point WB adjustment. A full session will run me 2-3 hours. In the process I have developed a deep appreciation for the ISF calibrators - it ain't just math .

These results are giving me an awesome picture - really deep blacks and dark shadow detail, but not overtly bright. It works great for me as I have a fairly low-light to really dim viewing environment and watch many very dark-scened movies. Skin tones look fine based on intended movie pallette and lighting conditions - I like to check with group scenes where you can see various types of skin tones together.

In comparing with the C-NET settings, my blue hue is a bit different, apparent in the latest DirecTV HD GUI and the OPPO logo in my BD player but are obviously blue, and cyan looks cyanish ...

I'm going to see what happens if I calibrate with gamut at 50%, assuming I can get CalMAN and the Radiance to do that, maybe this week-end.


----------



## Rukk

Does anyone have access to the discrete remote codes? Help in this area would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## dsskid

Nice job DJG.


----------



## DJG

Rukk said:


> Does anyone have access to the discrete remote codes? Help in this area would be greatly appreciated.


FW Update 2.16 has them. Just do the update.



dsskid said:


> Nice job DJG.


Thanks!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Rukk said:


> Does anyone have access to the discrete remote codes? Help in this area would be greatly appreciated.


I have the discrete codes, but can only send them via email. Send me an email and I reply with how to get the codes and how to install them into your Elite TV.

-Robert


----------



## aleicgrant

Robert Zohn said:


> I have the discrete codes, but can only send them via email. Send me an email and I reply with how to get the codes and how to install them into your Elite TV.
> 
> -Robert


Hi Robert my friend
Please check your email.for an urgent message


----------



## Glenee

Did anyone find out for sure what was in the last update ?
Thanks


----------



## DJG

AFAIK it fixed some power-related problem that affected some units, but it also has the remote discrete power commands - I'm using them with 2.16.


----------



## Rukk

Phase 2 of the Rukk entertainment Renaissance is complete! Just got the Oppo BDP-93! Awesome on the Elite! Need about 30 hrs to initiate phase 3 aka the calibration! Gotta see this tv ISF style!


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Is it bad that I feel that the 70" is feeling small? Especially after seeing an 80"? Lol I may trade up if they come out with an 80". I'll have to try to get over the dizzy feeling when I first saw one by Sharp. It was next to the 70" elite and it literally dwarfed it. It's a great tv and all but I'm definitely over the initial wow factor being used to it. Obviously, I'm still waiting on the fix before Kevin Miller calibrates my TV so that I'll be Wow'd again, but the size kind of gets to me now. Ugh my girlfriend would kill me if I get all crazed about another dopey TV haha


----------



## Ken Ross

So Mike, is this an admission of size issues? 

Seriously, try decreasing your viewing distance to give you the same apparent size as the 80 (if possible). My 60" Elite looks much bigger in my den than my 60" Kuro in my living room.


----------



## DJG

Watch a 32" for a couple of days and the 70" will seem too big  ...


----------



## dsskid

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Is it bad that I feel that the 70" is feeling small? Especially after seeing an 80"? Lol I may trade up if they come out with an 80". I'll have to try to get over the dizzy feeling when I first saw one by Sharp. It was next to the 70" elite and it literally dwarfed it. It's a great tv and all but I'm definitely over the initial wow factor being used to it. Obviously, I'm still waiting on the fix before Kevin Miller calibrates my TV so that I'll be Wow'd again, but the size kind of gets to me now. Ugh my girlfriend would kill me if I get all crazed about another dopey TV haha


All displays seem to "shrink" over time, which is why I wrote what I wrote in my signature.


----------



## Radtech51

Hi Robert any new news on how things are progressing? I'll be getting my Elite Calibrated by Kevin next month, Ken's reported great results so I'm very excited! :sn:


----------



## Rukk

Concerning the cyan issue,should I wait for a "fix" before getting a calibration? I have about 25 hrs to go before eligibility. Would getting the set calibrated prior to a correction throw off the post calibrated results?


----------



## aleicgrant

Well Elite number 2 on the way..lets hope there is no pulsing in THX


----------



## GeneWildersHair

aleicgrant said:


> Well Elite number 2 on the way..lets hope there is no pulsing in THX


I don't think you'll find one without I'm sorry to say.


----------



## aleicgrant

GeneWildersHair said:


> I don't think you'll find one without I'm sorry to say.


Im ok as long as there is no pulsing in thx which most report is the case


----------



## GeneWildersHair

aleicgrant said:


> Im ok as long as there is no pulsing in thx which most report is the case


I think most of us have pulsing in thx mode, it's just not as noticeable as the other modes. I know of just a very few on the board who say they don't in thx mode. I don't mean to sound negative, if there are pulsing free sets in thx mode, I hope you get one, I for one don't have one, and have seen this pulsing in two other sets in store, and they were indeed in thx mode. So I'm only speaking from my experience with 3 different Elite sets but so far that's 3 for 3 with it, and was my reason for deciding not to return mine in hopes to get a pulse free thx mode set.


----------



## Radtech51

GeneWildersHair said:


> I think most of us have pulsing in thx mode, it's just not as noticeable as the other modes. I know of just a very few on the board who say they don't in thx mode. I don't mean to sound negative, if there are pulsing free sets in thx mode, I hope you get one, I for one don't have one, and have seen this pulsing in two other sets in store, and they were indeed in thx mode. So I'm only speaking from my experience with 3 different Elite sets but so far that's 3 for 3 with it, and was my reason for deciding not to return mine in hopes to get a pulse free thx mode set.


Has anyone compiled a list of program material that shows this pulsing issue? onder:


----------



## DJG

I've looked at the Let Me In and the Dark Knight scenes but got nothing. I have noticed some slight pulsing here and there and a halo effect in two situations. I'm in ISF mode.


----------



## Rukk

Has anyone had issues with their Harmony remotes not changing to the right input?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJG said:


> I've looked at the Let Me In and the Dark Knight scenes but got nothing. I have noticed some slight pulsing here and there and a halo effect in two situations. I'm in ISF mode.


It is definitely very situational/source dependent. Light pulsing here and there in thx mode for me, but it is there. I have found some decent settings using a combination of cnet settings, and a few adjustments I made to almost completely eliminate it in thx mode. Still hoping for a fix tho. Maybe Sharp will come thru on this. That said, I wouldn't trade my Elite for any other display out right now. It's just that good!


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Radtech51 said:


> Has anyone compiled a list of program material that shows this pulsing issue? onder:


The wife and I were watching Netflix thru the app on the elite, and while watching episode 6 of the TV series "being human" we both noticed quite a bit of pulsing in several scenes. If you care to check for pulsing, use this episode, and forward to the kitchen scene right after a ring falls down a flight of stairs. The walls in the kitchen pulse like crazy!


----------



## Mikey94025

Rukk said:


> Has anyone had issues with their Harmony remotes not changing to the right input?


No problems for me and my remote changes inputs every time I watch tv with it. My dad uses a simpler remote, without the home theater setup on a different input.

I'm using the Kuro tv profile and did have problems when I tried reducing the lengthy default power on delay (how long it waits before sending the next code). I recall it being 10 sec or something like that. Are you having input switching problems only after power on? If so, check your delay.


----------



## DJG

GeneWildersHair said:


> The wife and I were watching Netflix thru the app on the elite, and while watching episode 6 of the TV series "being human" we both noticed quite a bit of pulsing in several scenes. If you care to check for pulsing, use this episode, and forward to the kitchen scene right after a ring falls down a flight of stairs. The walls in the kitchen pulse like crazy!


I've been watching the 2nd season of Being Human in BD (original BBC version, there's also an American remake I believe) and it's one of the places I occasionally notice some pulsing.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJG said:


> I've been watching the 2nd season of Being Human in BD (original BBC version, there's also an American remake I believe) and it's one of the places I occasionally notice some pulsing.


Yes, I forgot to mention it's the American version I'm referring to.


----------



## Goldwing2001

I wanted to post a short note to say I just purchased the Elite PRO70X5FD. Those that know me, know I have been an avid Sony fan and customer for the past 30+ years. I've been shopping for a new TV to replace my aging Sony KDS-R70XBR2. For the past four weeks I've been struggling over purchasing the Sony XBR65HX929 or the Elite. I normally wouldn't even consider anything else except for another Sony, but it pains me to say that Sony's reputation for high quality, cutting edge, well built, ahead of it's time TVs has been declining steadily for the past few years. When I viewed and tinkered with both sets a my local Best Buy, I was just drawn more to the Elite's piture quality. My family and friends were shocked that I purchased the Sharp Elite instead of a Sony, but I think they will be quite surprised when they get to view the picture quality of the Elite when it gets delivered later today. :bigsmile:

I am now a proud owner of an Elite PRO70X5FD!!


----------



## Rukk

Goldwing2001 said:


> I wanted to post a short note to say I just purchased the Elite PRO70X5FD. Those that know me, know I have been an avid Sony fan and customer for the past 30+ years. I've been shopping for a new TV to replace my aging Sony KDS-R70XBR2. For the past four weeks I've been struggling over purchasing the Sony XBR65HX929 or the Elite. I normally wouldn't even consider anything else except for another Sony, but it pains me to say that Sony's reputation for high quality, cutting edge, well built, ahead of it's time TVs has been declining steadily for the past few years. When I viewed and tinkered with both sets a my local Best Buy, I was just drawn more to the Elite's piture quality. My family and friends were shocked that I purchased the Sharp Elite instead of a Sony, but I think they will be quite surprised when they get to view the picture quality of the Elite when it gets delivered later today. :bigsmile:
> 
> I am now a proud owner of an Elite PRO70X5FD!!


Wow. Just wow. I got my 70X5FD 3 weeks ago and it replaced (guess what?) MY aging KDS-R70XBR2! What's more? I too have been a dedicated Sony customer for years (remember the Trinitrons?) and I was ALSO seriously looking at the XBR929's (I was going to hold out and see if they were going to come out with a 70" or larger set. Didn't happen)! Simply amazing how similar our paths went regarding televisions!


----------



## Goldwing2001

Rukk said:


> Wow. Just wow. I got my 70X5FD 3 weeks ago and it replaced (guess what?) MY aging KDS-R70XBR2! What's more? I too have been a dedicated Sony customer for years (remember the Trinitrons?) and I was ALSO seriously looking at the XBR929's (I was going to hold out and see if they were going to come out with a 70" or larger set. Didn't happen)! Simply amazing how similar our paths went regarding televisions!


That is pretty funny :bigsmile:. I wonder how many other Sony fans converted to the Elite?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Goldwing2001 said:


> That is pretty funny :bigsmile:. I wonder how many other Sony fans converted to the Elite?


Me! I go way back to the trinitron days to the xbr's, just recently replaced my XBR4 with the Elite, as the 929's didn't impress me as much. Btw I still have a mid 80's trinitron in one of my kids rooms. Still works great to this day!


----------



## Rukk

GeneWildersHair said:


> Me! I go way back to the trinitron days to the xbr's, just recently replaced my XBR4 with the Elite, as the 929's didn't impress me as much. Btw I still have a mid 80's trinitron in one of my kids rooms. Still works great to this day!



LOL. I STILL have my XBR4 (well it's actually the 5. Difference being it's the piano black version) and I too still have a mid 80's Trini in my guest room!


----------



## Rukk

Mikey94025 said:


> No problems for me and my remote changes inputs every time I watch tv with it. My dad uses a simpler remote, without the home theater setup on a different input.
> 
> I'm using the Kuro tv profile and did have problems when I tried reducing the lengthy default power on delay (how long it waits before sending the next code). I recall it being 10 sec or something like that. Are you having input switching problems only after power on? If so, check your delay.



Thanks. I have it straightened out now. I simply had to get the remote to emulate my physical actions when it comes to changing inputs. I wasn't used to that because I didn't have to do that with the Sony.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Rukk said:


> LOL. I STILL have my XBR4 (well it's actually the 5. Difference being it's the piano black version) and I too still have a mid 80's Trini in my guest room!


Yeah the XBR4/5 have a very good picture quality! Although when compared to three Elite, I was honestly shocked that what I thought were great black levels on that set turned out to be great dark grey levels...ooh and I believe we bought our Elites the same day too! lol


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Goldwing2001 said:


> That is pretty funny :bigsmile:. I wonder how many other Sony fans converted to the Elite?


I did! My Sony 52XBR4 was replaced by my 60" Elite. I love this TV!


----------



## asiano

I'm very close to ordering the 70" Elite, but I am concerned about the pulsing issues more so than the cyan issue. I don't see why the cyan issue is any worse than a TV where black looks gray. However, it appears the pulsing issue can be more annoying/distracting. Does pulsing appear often (most TV shows/movies) or does it occur infrequently?


----------



## Ken Ross

GeneWildersHair said:


> The wife and I were watching Netflix thru the app on the elite, and while watching episode 6 of the TV series "being human" we both noticed quite a bit of pulsing in several scenes. If you care to check for pulsing, use this episode, and forward to the kitchen scene right after a ring falls down a flight of stairs. The walls in the kitchen pulse like crazy!


While watching Netflix, I'd be very suspect of the source. I think you need a higher quality source to definitely point the finger at the Elite. I still find NCIS to be one of the best 'revealers' of the pulsing...at least in non-THX mode on my set.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

asiano said:


> I'm very close to ordering the 70" Elite, but I am concerned about the pulsing issues more so than the cyan issue. I don't see why the cyan issue is any worse than a TV where black looks gray. However, it appears the pulsing issue can be more annoying/distracting. Does pulsing appear often (most TV shows/movies) or does it occur infrequently?


To be honest, it's really dependent on a few factors that none of us quite know all of. The ones we do know are using local dimming, and of course the source image. I've noticed it more with dimly lit scenes in movies and shows. Never noticed it in bright scenes or sporting events. One of the biggest culprits is a show like law and order. Once you know what it looks like and what to look for, you can definitely start looking for it, and finding it pretty easily on certain content. I would suggest keeping it thx mode, (as it's either less apparent or isn't there at all on some lucky sets) oh, and just don't even look for it.lol


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> I've been watching the 2nd season of Being Human in BD (original BBC version, there's also an American remake I believe) and it's one of the places I occasionally notice some pulsing.


Another thought here guys. Seeing as this is a BBC version, it must have undergone conversion for our American system. I've seen some very weird stuff on PAL to NTSC conversions, so this again makes me question the source even though I'm assuming this is HD (I've never seen the show).


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Ken Ross said:


> While watching Netflix, I'd be very suspect of the source. I think you need a higher quality source to definitely point the finger at the Elite. I still find NCIS to be one of the best 'revealers' of the pulsing...at least in non-THX mode on my set.


I've checked the same scenes on my XBR4 using Netflix, and it isn't there in the slightest. Oh, and I've seen this seasons "being human" pulsing on both my cable, and satellite providers, yea I know I'm nuts paying for both, but I'm addicted to HD and wanted all the channels I could possibly get. Lol


----------



## Ken Ross

GeneWildersHair said:


> I've checked the same scenes on my XBR4 using Netflix, and it isn't there in the slightest. Oh, and I've seen this seasons "being human" pulsing on both my cable, and satellite providers, yea I know I'm nuts paying for both, but I'm addicted to HD and wanted all the channels I could possibly get. Lol


Oh well, so much for that theory. 

Gene, off topic, who is your cable & satellite provider?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Ken Ross said:


> Oh well, so much for that theory.
> 
> Gene, off topic, who is your cable & satellite provider?


Comcast cable, and dish network, and I've gotta say I am not liking the picture I'm getting with Dish ever since I've gotten my Elite. It seems the bigger 70" size has definitely made the compressed picture more apparent than it was on my 52" set. Comcast In my area on the other hand looks great.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Oh, and for those that may want to try my settings that take care of the pulsing issue "almost completely" it's very hard to see honestly. You would have to really look hard for it, instead of enjoying what you're watching. Just use the CNET settings, and change IVC : advanced low, backlight: 3, and contrast backed down to 23. That's it.


----------



## DJG

Ken Ross said:


> Another thought here guys. Seeing as this is a BBC version, it must have undergone conversion for our American system. I've seen some very weird stuff on PAL to NTSC conversions, so this again makes me question the source even though I'm assuming this is HD (I've never seen the show).


Ken, no conversion on my sitch - it's PAL played through my OPPO 83-SE as PAL. But it's not overwhelming and could be misconstrued as being in the source.


----------



## DJG

GeneWildersHair said:


> Comcast cable, and dish network, and I've gotta say I am not liking the picture I'm getting with Dish ever since I've gotten my Elite. It seems the bigger 70" size has definitely made the compressed picture more apparent than it was on my 52" set. Comcast In my area on the other hand looks great.


I'm glad to say I'm for the most part happy with how DirecTV HD shows up on the 70X. I was afraid it would look like you know what, but for the most part looks fine as long as you don't pause, then you can start seeing the compression artifacts.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJG said:


> I'm glad to say I'm for the most part happy with how DirecTV HD shows up on the 70X. I was afraid it would look like you know what, but for the most part looks fine as long as you don't pause, then you can start seeing the compression artifacts.


Yeah from what I remember, DirecTV had the best HD PQ available when I had it a couple years ago, (aside from Verizons Fios anyway.)I hear nothing much has changed, matter of fact I'm thinking of switching back from dish a soon as my contract is up. I really wish I had Fios in my area, but sadly I don't.


----------



## obxdiver

GeneWildersHair said:


> Yeah from what I remember, DirecTV had the best HD PQ available when I had it a couple years ago, (aside from Verizons Fios anyway.)I hear nothing much has changed, matter of fact I'm thinking of switching back from dish a soon as my contract is up. I really wish I had Fios in my area, but sadly I don't.


I have FiOS and Direct TV connected to my 70" Elite. 
I use the CNET settings.
I got FiOS over the Xmas holidays. I had planned to cancel my Direct TV after Fios was installed.
Sadly, I have to keep Direct TV due to terrible fast motion compression artifacts on some channels via Fios.
Some of those channels include AMC-HD, USA-HD, Food-HD, and some others.
These same channels on Direct TV have little to no compression artifacts 
Direct TV's PQ is the best I have seen in my area.
I have seen COX, FIOS, Direct TV, and DISH.
Direct TV blows them all away....in my house.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

I must say that Dish HD looks terrific on my 70" Elite. No visible compression artifacts and stunning clarity depending on program material. I left DirecTV in 2005 when they refused to pass closed captioning on their HD feeds back then due to a legal loophole. My partner is deaf and I promised myself I would never reward a company that disregarded the needs of its deaf customers.


----------



## rab-byte

I'm a calibrator with best buy and see many houses with various providers and have to say DishNetwork is consistently the worst picture of all. This is in the new Orleans area but with satellite service I can't imagine it's a regional thing. I know it's a little off topic but ya. Dish is not a good picture.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

rab-byte said:


> I'm a calibrator with best buy and see many houses with various providers and have to say DishNetwork is consistently the worst picture of all. This is in the new Orleans area but with satellite service I can't imagine it's a regional thing. I know it's a little off topic but ya. Dish is not a good picture.


I would have to agree, I have since stopped watching it with my elite, and have stuck with my local cable company for my TV network watching needs. Dish is still used in the other rooms, as it looks ok on smaller displays. As soon as my contract is up, I'm going back to DirecTV!


----------



## alin2

Quick question:

As anyone got the discrete codes working on firmware 2.16? If so, are they the old Pioneer Kuro Elite codes?

My installer got the power off to work, but not power on?

Thanks to all.


----------



## DJG

I'm using the discrete power codes in my MX-700 with 2.16 and have had no problems. Originally I was using them with 2.15, and 2.16 transitioned with no hiccups.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Correct the download codes I send out are loaded into your Elite TV permanently and are not overwritten when new FW is upgraded.

-Robert


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

GeneWildersHair said:


> I would have to agree, I have since stopped watching it with my elite, and have stuck with my local cable company for my TV network watching needs. Dish is still used in the other rooms, as it looks ok on smaller displays. As soon as my contract is up, I'm going back to DirecTV!


Are you talking about HD or SD feeds? I have Dish Network and the quality of the HD feeds are out of this world - absolutely nothing to complain about.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

AZREOSpecialist said:


> Are you talking about HD or SD feeds? I have Dish Network and the quality of the HD feeds are out of this world - absolutely nothing to complain about.


HD, like I said I can compare them to my local cable provider, and it's night and day. I think it looks fine on my 52", but on the 70", it looks bad. Especially the local channels in HD, very compressed when compared to my cable service.


----------



## Rukk

Does the picture get darker/dimmer when Fluidmotion is engaged or am I just trippin'?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Rukk said:


> Does the picture get darker/dimmer when Fluidmotion is engaged or am I just trippin'?


It gets dimmer yes.


----------



## Rukk

GeneWildersHair said:


> It gets dimmer yes.


Thought so. It's messing with my visual. Guess I won't be using THAT setting!

Well it's almost that time. Got nearly one hun on the set. I live in the San Diego area. Anyone have any suggestions on calibrators in this area, or should I try and wait for a renowned "brator to go on one of their tours and get them when they're in my sector? Any advice in this area will be GREATLY appreciated.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

Rukk said:


> Thought so. It's messing with my visual. Guess I won't be using THAT setting!
> 
> Well it's almost that time. Got nearly one hun on the set. I live in the San Diego area. Anyone have any suggestions on calibrators in this area, or should I try and wait for a renowned "brator to go on one of their tours and get them when they're in my sector? Any advice in this area will be GREATLY appreciated.


Just bump up the IVC setting to compensate for the darker image. Issue solved!


----------



## Morphine_Sulfate

OK. I have tried this TV for about a week now. And I have had every high end TV from 2011 (65VT30, PN64D8000, PN64D7000, 55HX929, UN55D8000). These are all "good" sets, but I always found something that I could not live with for each of them.
The Elite is bar far the best. There is not much to hate on this one, except you look too hard, and I'm not going to do that because I didn't work too hard to find faults with all the other sets above. 
The elite was not cheap (for me), but after comparing it to the rest I've owned, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it if even it was 1K more than what it cost now. Connectivity is simple and flawless; PQ is the best I've seen, BLACKS, BLACKS, BLACKS - superb; ZERO heat compare to the plasmas; clean, clear whites; sound is ok; built quality is great.
For the first I am happy with my set and can't ask for more from a TV, very happy.lddude:


----------



## DJG

OK, AFAIK the Elite wasn't cheap for anybody who bought one . Welcome to the LCD Club! That's the Lousy Cyan Display Club ...


----------



## Audiofiler

Can someone with an ISF calibrated 70" Elite comment on the pulsing, and if this problem is present still in ISFDAY, ISFNIGHT & ISF3D mode?

I have spoken with Robert about this a few times and realize that Sharp is still working on a fix for it. (hopefully)


----------



## cdiez58

DJG said:


> OK, AFAIK the Elite wasn't cheap for anybody who bought one . Welcome to the LCD Club! That's the Lousy Cyan Display Club ...


What is that?....not getting it if it was supposed to be funny....


----------



## DJG

Do a search for "cyan" in this thread. Maybe you still won't think it's funny .

Wait a minute, some of those posts are yours!


----------



## cdiez58

DJG said:


> Do a search for "cyan" in this thread. Maybe you still won't think it's funny .
> 
> Wait a minute, some of those posts are yours!


I've been on this thread from the beginning... It's a waaaay overblown issue...I own a 70x5....do you?


----------



## Radtech51

Audiofiler said:


> Can someone with an ISF calibrated 70" Elite comment on the pulsing, and if this problem is present still in ISFDAY, ISFNIGHT & ISF3D mode?
> 
> I have spoken with Robert about this a few times and realize that Sharp is still working on a fix for it. (hopefully)


I'd be happy to comment on the topic after my Calibration on the 10th. However Ken has already had his ELITE Calibrated and reports great results with no pulsing in any of the ISF modes. :sn:


----------



## DJG

cdiez58 said:


> I've been on this thread from the beginning... It's a waaaay overblown issue...I own a 70x5....do you?


Whoa!!! I'm on your side - it WAS a joke! Yes I own / love one (see the signature?). Also see my posts in this thread. I got it from CP. Yes it's totally overblown. In fact I can't see the problem myself. I do occasionally notice some pulsing even in the ISF modes but nothing too distracting and I might not be noticing it if it hadn't been brought up. LOL!

OK, I'm going back to Planet Earth - looks magnificent on this TV!


----------



## cdiez58

DJG said:


> Whoa!!! I'm on your side - it WAS a joke! Yes I own / love one (see the signature?). Also see my posts in this thread. I got it from CP. Yes it's totally overblown. In fact I can't see the problem myself. I do occasionally notice some pulsing even in the ISF modes but nothing too distracting and I might not be noticing it if it hadn't been brought up. LOL!
> 
> OK, I'm going back to Planet Earth - looks magnificent on this TV!


Im sorry.....i get it now....im with you the occasional (rare) pulsing is my only beef....but still very happy my 70!!!


----------



## Rukk

Rukk said:


> Thought so. It's messing with my visual. Guess I won't be using THAT setting!
> 
> Well it's almost that time. Got nearly one hun on the set. I live in the San Diego area. Anyone have any suggestions on calibrators in this area, or should I try and wait for a renowned "brator to go on one of their tours and get them when they're in my sector? Any advice in this area will be GREATLY appreciated.


Hi.


----------



## DJG

Hey, no problem. I turn mine on just to see a great picture - who cares about plot or character development - look at that shadow detail! I have my backlight at ISF 27 (I think that works out to -23 on the THX mode) and the blacks are unbelievable. I lose some brightness but I'm on a dim room and the set is bright by nature. I only think it's dim when I compare it to say the CNET settings. But when my eyes are adjusted to it I don't notice it at all. It's a great trade off for me as I watch a lot of dark movies.

Cheers!


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> Can someone with an ISF calibrated 70" Elite comment on the pulsing, and if this problem is present still in ISFDAY, ISFNIGHT & ISF3D mode?
> 
> I have spoken with Robert about this a few times and realize that Sharp is still working on a fix for it. (hopefully)


No pulsing in either ISF mode.


----------



## Theatredaz

* I still havn't noticed background pulsing on my 60" Elite> the only irregular annomoly I've noticed on the display is in dark scenes and some bright scenes> the picture shows film grain as white noise with a white pulsing light (strange) it happens in the movies ( Aliens in the attick first 1 minute in 1 10 second dark scene) then it disapears> and Aliens (bluray) it does it through the entire movie??? It's almost as if the gamma is conflicting with film grain and causing the set to distort the film grain as light output or somthing...this happens on some other movies as well for a certain dark scene then disapears...I find turning the brightness down helps the problem ( dilutes the white haze) ...but then you lose shadow detail and looks bad on dark coats and shadows etc.

I also have to mention that as an owner of a 60" and 70" Elite> I found the 70" had the best blacks in a Pitch dark room with no image on the screen in THX mode (only good mode IMO)> When I switched to the 60" set well...I was a Tad disappointed to find that the set was brighter in a dark room...don't know why...but...when I switched to user mode it actually dimmed the display to the 70"'s black levels>...although with some ambient light in the room the 60" still has perfect black levels...and actually...when the image has a light image at the center of the screen...the rest of the local dimming LED actually disapear!!...thus creating serious pitch black levels in a dark room> I wonder if it's the light engine transfering voltage from the backlit led to other areas that need to be lit....either way...it made me re-think how serious performer this set really is.


----------



## Rukk

Hello Robert,
I live in the San Diego area. Do you have any calibrator contacts here? Anyone you would suggest? I was thinking about holding out for a known "brator who does tours. Any advice?


----------



## cdiez58

Just watched the Hugo 3D blu ray on my 70........it was awesome....blew me away!!!...


----------



## DYAUS

cdiez58 said:


> Just watched the Hugo 3D blu ray on my 70........it was awesome....blew me away!!!...


Same here! Definitely the second best 3D blu-ray to come out, next to Avatar.


----------



## Goldwing2001

I purchased the 3D Blu-Ray movie "Hugo" last night. My wife and I watched our first 3D movie on our Elite. We both enjoyed the movie and the 3D experience. The movie is a great family film and the 3D effects are just amazing.

Tony


----------



## Robert Zohn

Rukk said:


> Hello Robert,
> I live in the San Diego area. Do you have any calibrator contacts here? Anyone you would suggest? I was thinking about holding out for a known "brator who does tours. Any advice?


I have a few favorites in your area:

John aka Gotchaa [email protected]

and Ray Jr. [email protected]

Two great ISF certified calibrators.

I also like Jeff Meier [email protected], who travels to Southern CA a few times annually.

Best,

-Robert


----------



## Rukk

Robert Zohn said:


> I have a few favorites in your area:
> 
> John aka Gotchaa [email protected]
> 
> and Ray Jr. [email protected]
> 
> Two great ISF certified calibrators.
> 
> I also like Jeff Meier [email protected], who travels to Southern CA a few times annually.
> 
> Best,
> 
> -Robert


Thank you for the suggestions. As good timing would have it, I just went over the 100 mark last night. I'll look into the people you've recommended.


----------



## JClam

I experienced my first pulsing over the weekend. Was flipping around on Sat night and came across The King's Speech on TMC East HD. The scene where the future king is playing with the model airplane, a very dark scene, the dark wall/background behind him pulsed throughout the scene. I tried it on all settings (ISF Day/Night, THX, etc) and all pulsed. I did notice before that scene came on that everything about this movie on this channel seemed 25% darker than I had recalled when watching this movie previously.

Perhaps the pulsing had something to do with the re-transmission/dirty signal from TMC/DTV. 

At least now I know what you guys have been referring to. Yuck.
Jim


----------



## lcaillo

Rukk said:


> Thank you for the suggestions. As good timing would have it, I just went over the 100 mark last night. I'll look into the people you've recommended.


I second the recommendation of Ray. I don't know anything about John.


----------



## mechman

Yet another echo for RayJr. :T


----------



## DJG

JClam said:


> I experienced my first pulsing over the weekend. Was flipping around on Sat night and came across The King's Speech on TMC East HD. The scene where the future king is playing with the model airplane, a very dark scene, the dark wall/background behind him pulsed throughout the scene. I tried it on all settings (ISF Day/Night, THX, etc) and all pulsed. I did notice before that scene came on that everything about this movie on this channel seemed 25% darker than I had recalled when watching this movie previously.
> 
> Perhaps the pulsing had something to do with the re-transmission/dirty signal from TMC/DTV.
> 
> At least now I know what you guys have been referring to. Yuck.
> Jim


Naah, it's from the local dimming effect. Hopefully they'll address it, though it hasn't been too conspicuous for me in ISF modes.


----------



## JClam

DJG said:


> Naah, it's from the local dimming effect. Hopefully they'll address it, though it hasn't been too conspicuous for me in ISF modes.


I plan on watching a BD version of the movie and will let you know if the pulsing occurs at the same spot. If it's not there, perhaps it's something other than the local dimming.


----------



## DJG

I've seen enough small examples where having LD on exacerbates some slight variations in background lighting with larger smooth areas like walls. For a while I'd alternate between LD on and off when detecting a suspicious flickering . Let us know what your experience is.


----------



## Rukk

mechman said:


> Yet another echo for RayJr. :T



And technically that's three! I will definitely look into him first. Thanks everyone. As always you remind me why I'm glad I joined this community.


----------



## babyman

Hi all,

I just purchased an Elite PRO-60X5FD and so far I love the TV, but I am having a really tough time programming my URC MX-3000 remote control to work properly. I have read through some of the discussion threads and have downloaded the file that people mentioned that was for an MX-950 (I think that was the remote) but my mx-3000 editor would not open it. I was hoping someone here might be able to give me some help or a file that will work as I really want to get this all up and running ASAP. I even tried calling Elite support and they gave me a link to a file that contained the hex codes but I couldn't get the page they sent to open, I tried on both a mac and PC with no luck. I really can't believe this TV is not in the URC database yet, but that's another issue all together. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.


----------



## chansensturm

babyman said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just purchased an Elite PRO-60X5FD and so far I love the TV, but I am having a really tough time programming my URC MX-3000 remote control to work properly. I have read through some of the discussion threads and have downloaded the file that people mentioned that was for an MX-950 (I think that was the remote) but my mx-3000 editor would not open it. I was hoping someone here might be able to give me some help or a file that will work as I really want to get this all up and running ASAP. I even tried calling Elite support and they gave me a link to a file that contained the hex codes but I couldn't get the page they sent to open, I tried on both a mac and PC with no luck. I really can't believe this TV is not in the URC database yet, but that's another issue all together.
> 
> Thanks.


Hello,

I've been enjoying my 60" for four about weeks and just went through a bit of URC programming hell too ;-) I have a MX-980, and, using their UI layout/programming editor sw, was able to manually assign the discrete codes. These have been distributed by various members of this forum, but you can also find them posted on remote central.

The remote central discrete codes have been working for me, except for discrete on/off. Discrete off works, but not discrete on. A recent Elite firmware update supposedly addressed this issue, but in my case, it still isn't working.

Good luck...I'm afraid the URC tools are so unfriendly that you'll need it ;-)

--craig


----------



## aleicgrant

Well my replacement 70 arrived today and the pulsing is even worse than before. It also has dse which the previous did not. Im sad :-(


----------



## babyman

Thanks for the advice. But how did you manually input the codes? I have worked with the editor quite a bit in the past when it was setup to work with my last TV but I only know about using the pre-programmed IR Database or manually teaching the remote each code. The manual teaching obviously provides no discrete codes at all. I called Elite and they gave me a link to a website that has the Hex Codes but I have no idea how to use them and thought maybe someone here would have an easier more straightforward way of getting this done. And, I totally agree using URC editors is always a pain... They really need to update their software to be more user friendly.


----------



## chansensturm

babyman said:


> Thanks for the advice. But how did you manually input the codes? I have worked with the editor quite a bit in the past when it was setup to work with my last TV but I only know about using the pre-programmed IR Database or manually teaching the remote each code. The manual teaching obviously provides no discrete codes at all. I called Elite and they gave me a link to a website that has the Hex Codes but I have no idea how to use them and thought maybe someone here would have an easier more straightforward way of getting this done. And, I totally agree using URC editors is always a pain... They really need to update their software to be more user friendly.


Not certain if we have the same pc editor sw; however, on mine:

1/ access the "universal browser" tool. 
2/ click on the "Hex" button along the top of the universal browser window.
3/ cut and paste hexadecimal code sequences into the hex editor window (one command at a time).
4/ drag the "target/bullseye" button onto the rendering of the button on your remote in the main window.

You'll see a visual indication that this remote button is now "programmed".


----------



## DJG

babyman said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I just purchased an Elite PRO-60X5FD and so far I love the TV, but I am having a really tough time programming my URC MX-3000 remote control to work properly. I have read through some of the discussion threads and have downloaded the file that people mentioned that was for an MX-950 (I think that was the remote) but my mx-3000 editor would not open it. I was hoping someone here might be able to give me some help or a file that will work as I really want to get this all up and running ASAP. I even tried calling Elite support and they gave me a link to a file that contained the hex codes but I couldn't get the page they sent to open, I tried on both a mac and PC with no luck. I really can't believe this TV is not in the URC database yet, but that's another issue all together.
> 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Thanks.


Here you go ...


----------



## Theatredaz

* You have to laugh coming to a forum and hearing people talk about their TV's Pulsing?...which way does it pulse? Horizontal or vertical? " My tv is pulsing!"


----------



## aleicgrant

well for a lot of us we dont consider this a laughing matter. The pulse is no particular pattern either vertical or horizontal. It can appear on a solid wall or any part of a scene as a "wave" "pulse" 

certainly not how it should perform. But if you want to laugh thats your choice


----------



## DJG

Well .... that's basically what it does - :yikes: - 

- once in a blue moon for me.


----------



## Theatredaz

* What movies show the pulsing? I understand a $6500 TV set should not have any issues, but markets are markets, this tv is sold in one...THX is the ONLY gimick this TV should be viewed in... other setting are just wasting my videophile time and money. I've got starchoice(shaw direct) satelite ( signal quality is not that consistent) but I have never noticed any pulsing > do people run this TV through their Audio Video Amplifiers?> they can be Very Poor at video signal transfer, that's why most manufacturers are just giving up on it because it's VERY complicated to get right, especially gamma /brightness and a ton of other specifications that require Huge amounts of processing power to deliver a signal that's consistent. The few things I notice on the set is some blurays that don't have a consistent transfer can show pixel moire in details etc. Thx mode seems the best mode to reduce this effect,a and anticipate calibration will help even more.

* I would try plugging the TV direct to Sat or cable box and then go from there.


----------



## lcaillo

Theatredaz said:


> * You have to laugh coming to a forum and hearing people talk about their TV's Pulsing?...which way does it pulse? Horizontal or vertical? " My tv is pulsing!"


No one here has to laugh at the experience of others, and we do not choose to be a forum in which such is suggested. There are better ways to express your lack of understanding of what these users are experiencing. this is an annoyance for many owners, but we have not yet seen a clear explanation of the cause, nor how the sets respond to anomolies in source material. I think isolating the parameters affecting the problem needs to be the focus, and this needs to start with conditions and source material that reproduce it. A separate thread where users could list source material and conditions that could be used to reproduce it might be helpful.


----------



## DJG

It's been mentioned throughout the thread - the "pulsing" appears to stem from the local dimming algorithms. It mainly appears with higher contrast scenes with larger somewhat smoooth areas like walls. Often it's because there's a slight flickering in the content that gets exacerbated by the local dimming. And it varies from set to set, and of course people's succeptibility to it.


----------



## lcaillo

Yes, I have followed the thread and understand the symptoms. From the perspective of a tech that has had to troubleshoot similar problems, it would be useful to identify the content and conditions precisely to duplicate the problem. The probability of getting to a solution goes up considerably if it is easy to duplicate the conditions effecting the problem.


----------



## babyman

Thanks all. I finally got it dialed in. Everything works great on my remote except for Discreet on. Discreet off works but for some reason the on does not. I am just using power instead of on for the meantime and am hoping this will be fixed soon with some kind of firmware update.


----------



## DJG

lcaillo said:


> Yes, I have followed the thread and understand the symptoms. From the perspective of a tech that has had to troubleshoot similar problems, it would be useful to identify the content and conditions precisely to duplicate the problem. The probability of getting to a solution goes up considerably if it is easy to duplicate the conditions effecting the problem.


I know you've been following - it was for Theatredaz 



babyman said:


> Thanks all. I finally got it dialed in. Everything works great on my remote except for Discreet on. Discreet off works but for some reason the on does not. I am just using power instead of on for the meantime and am hoping this will be fixed soon with some kind of firmware update.


They both work fine for me, so it must be something in your remote setup - I would double check it and try to re-ingest the discrete On command.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Theatredaz said:


> * What movies show the pulsing? I understand a $6500 TV set should not have any issues, but markets are markets, this tv is sold in one...THX is the ONLY gimick this TV should be viewed in... other setting are just wasting my videophile time and money. I've got starchoice(shaw direct) satelite ( signal quality is not that consistent) but I have never noticed any pulsing > do people run this TV through their Audio Video Amplifiers?> they can be Very Poor at video signal transfer, that's why most manufacturers are just giving up on it because it's VERY complicated to get right, especially gamma /brightness and a ton of other specifications that require Huge amounts of processing power to deliver a signal that's consistent. The few things I notice on the set is some blurays that don't have a consistent transfer can show pixel moire in details etc. Thx mode seems the best mode to reduce this effect,a and anticipate calibration will help even more.
> 
> * I would try plugging the TV direct to Sat or cable box and then go from there.


I disagree about Video Processing being abandoned by AVR Manufacturers. Onkyo's upper range uses a tandem of the HQV Vida Processor and Marvell Qdeo and has gotten excellent marks. When the Yamaha Aventage A3000 which uses the HQV Vida was Bench Tested by Audioholics, it received a perfect 130/130 on an extensive battery of Video Patterns. Also, the aforementioned Onkyo AVR's are even ISF Certified and even feature a Day and Night Mode. Also, many Denons use Anchor Bay Video Processing which is also quite good.

At least on the upper range AVR's, there is the possibility of superior Video Quality with sub 1080p Source Material. Especially with Panels less accomplished than the Elite. I understand, in theory, it is best to connect all Video Sources directly to the Display. However, with the better AVR's, they have the potential to be at least as good and in some cases surpass a TV's Video Processing. Almost all of this is about Upsampling Source Material to the Panels Native Resolution. While low end AVR's can certainly degrade the signal, some can at worst offer equal VQ while adding a great amount of convenience.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Rukk

Is the local dimming still on when you have it on the other settings (other than local dimming off of course)?


----------



## Radtech51

I just had my 70' ELITE calibrated by Kevin Miller this weekend and I'm happy to report No pulsing in ether of the ISF modes. :sn:

As for the Cyan issue it's extremely minor according to Kevin. It's so minor in fact that according to Kevin you just can't see it unless you have a comparison display. Again it's very source material specific and has to be in a very specific luminance range in order to visualy see it. I for one have never seen it and i've watched tons of movies and source material since I got the ELITE way back when it first came out and the color has always seemed perfect to me. Of course we all know nothing is ever perfect but you all get my point I hope. ;p

I'd also like to add that you will find that the biggest complainers out there are the ones who don't even own the ELITE, don't listen to them go look for yourself and let your eyes be the judge.


----------



## mechman

Radtech51 said:


> I just had my 70' ELITE calibrated by Kevin Miller this weekend and I'm happy to report No pulsing in ether of the ISF modes. :sn:
> 
> As for the Cyan issue it's extremely minor according to Kevin. It's so minor in fact that according to Kevin you just can't see it unless you have a comparison display. Again it's very source material specific and has to be in a very specific luminance range in order to visualy see it. I for one have never seen it and i've watched tons of movies and source material since I got the ELITE way back when it first came out and the color has always seemed perfect to me. Of course we all know nothing is ever perfect but you all get my point I hope. ;p
> 
> I'd also like to add that you will find that the biggest complainers out there are the ones who don't even own the ELITE, don't listen to them go look for yourself and let your eyes be the judge.


Thanks for the report Radtech51!


----------



## AZguy

Ok I've had the 70" Elite now for over a month and beside the cyan issue (I don't even notice) this has been the closest TV to perfect that I've ever owned and I've owned a lot of TVs over the years, here are a couple that I've owed TC-P65S1, XVT3D650SV (total ), PN63C8000, TC-P65VT30. So if you have the cash and been on the fence trust me you won't regret your decision and not to mention you get a two year warranty.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

So what happens to our calibrations once the cyan firmware is released? Will we need to have our tv's re-calibrated?


----------



## markrogo

Hutchinshouse said:


> So what happens to our calibrations once the cyan firmware is released? Will we need to have our tv's re-calibrated?


Yes, you would need a partial (at least) recalibration.

Or you could just ignore things and leave it as is. As the above indicates, a properly calibrated Elite is barely noticeably "wrong". Sometimes the best fix is none at all.


----------



## dsskid

Hutchinshouse said:


> So what happens to our calibrations once the cyan firmware is released? Will we need to have our tv's re-calibrated?


Do we have any updates on the fix?


----------



## DJG

dsskid said:


> Do we have any updates on the fix?


No news is ... no news :sad: but I'd be more interested in the sporadic flashing / pulsing / whatever situation.


----------



## Radtech51

I spoke with Kevin about the cyan issue and he believes it may be a result of the yellow sub-pixel at work. However on the good side that yellow sub-pixel doe's allow us to get a very bright screen with remarkable looking whites! :sn:


----------



## dsskid

DJG said:


> No news is ... no news :sad: but I'd be more interested in the sporadic flashing / pulsing / whatever situation.


Thanks for the reply DJG. 

Has Sharp acknowledged the sporatic flashing / pulsing issue? 
I know that they acknowledged the cyan issue at the shootout (I was there when they promised to issue the fix within 4 weeks).

Regardless, from what I've seen, it's still a pretty nice display.


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> I spoke with Kevin about the cyan issue and he believes it may be a result of the yellow sub-pixel at work. However on the good side that yellow sub-pixel doe's allow us to get a very bright screen with remarkable looking whites! :sn:


I'm glad you're enjoying your newly calibrated display. Kevin is undoubtably one of the best.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> I'm glad you're enjoying your newly calibrated display. Kevin is undoubtably one of the best.


Agreed! Thank you dsskid :T


----------



## markrogo

dsskid said:


> Has Sharp acknowledged the sporatic flashing / pulsing issue?


Yes, they have, at least through some informal channels. No known timeline on a fix.


----------



## DJG

dsskid said:


> Thanks for the reply DJG.
> 
> Has Sharp acknowledged the sporatic flashing / pulsing issue?
> I know that they acknowledged the cyan issue at the shootout (I was there when they promised to issue the fix within 4 weeks).
> 
> Regardless, from what I've seen, it's still a pretty nice display.


Yes, they have confirmed the flashing and supposedly working on it. And yes, it still kicks butt


----------



## Audiofiler

Can an owner of a 70" Elite confirm the actual dimensions Length and Height?

Not the screen diagonal measurement..

I would like to use the same mount and have an in wall speakers in place already. Just want get an idea as to the size of the unit.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi Audiofiler, the Elite PRO-70X5FD 70" HDTV dimensions are: 63 61/64" x 38 43/64" x 3 1/32 "

The wall mount spacing is a Visa 400, so your mount will work perfectly.

-Robert


----------



## Audiofiler

Thanks Robert,

I will be contacting you in the next few days.


----------



## Theatredaz

DJG said:


> Yes, they have confirmed the flashing and supposedly working on it. And yes, it still kicks butt


* So it is confirmed they acknowledge the pulsing...and they are working on fixing it?! That is good news...maybe a firmware update for it then?


----------



## dsskid

*Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*

This can't be good...

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57...er-huge-loss-expected-for-2011/?tag=cnetRiver


----------



## Radtech51

*Re: Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*



dsskid said:


> This can't be good...
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57...er-huge-loss-expected-for-2011/?tag=cnetRiver


Agreed this does not sound good for Sharp however they are now producing displays for Apple and i'm sure this will bring them much needed revenue. Intresting thought maybe Apple will just buy them out? If seems logical since Apple is rumored to be working on an Apple TV (display). onder:


----------



## Ken Ross

*Re: Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*



dsskid said:


> This can't be good...
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57...er-huge-loss-expected-for-2011/?tag=cnetRiver


We might not see an Elite v2. We may have the first & last Elite.


----------



## Robert Zohn

*Re: Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*



dsskid said:


> This can't be good...
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-573...?tag=cnetRiver


Sadly this is the current state of affairs for just about all Japanese CE manufacturers'. Panasonic and Sony also replaced their presidents in the past weeks and announced huge layoffs and consolidations. The Tsunami and worldwide economy are the big factors. 

-Robert



Radtech51 said:


> Agreed this does not sound good for Sharp however they are now producing displays for Apple and i'm sure this will bring them much needed revenue. Intresting thought maybe Apple will just buy them out? If seems logical since Apple is rumored to be working on an Apple TV (display). onder:


At the moment Samsung, Sharp and one other big panel manufacturer supplied samples, but only Sharp's quality has been accepted.

-Robert



Ken Ross said:


> We might not see an Elite v2. We may have the first & last Elite.


From reliable rumors (can their be a reliable rumor?) that I have been told we can expect three new 4k 2013-14 Elite displays, 60", 70" and 80". Launch will be in late October early November.

At this time no staff has been changed or eliminated at Sharp's Elite division. Deliveries are very constrained, but do flow in a normal steady flow. Seems like supply is just a little behind the actual demand, which is keeping the product in check and demand with the limited authorized distribution channel.

-Robert


----------



## dsskid

*Re: Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*



Radtech51 said:


> Agreed this does not sound good for Sharp however they are now producing displays for Apple and i'm sure this will bring them much needed revenue. Intresting thought maybe Apple will just buy them out? If seems logical since Apple is rumored to be working on an Apple TV (display). onder:


That's an interesting point Radtech, and Apple has plenty of cash flow :spend: . Here's hoping you're right. :T


----------



## dsskid

*Re: Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*



Ken Ross said:


> We might not see an Elite v2. We may have the first & last Elite.


Wouldn't that be ironic (and sad)?


----------



## dsskid

*Re: Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*



Robert Zohn said:


> Sadly this is the current state of affairs for just about all Japanese CE manufacturers'. Panasonic and Sony also replaced their presidents in the past weeks and announced huge layoffs and consolidations. The Tsunami and worldwide economy are the big factors.
> 
> -Robert


I wonder if some of these companies have considering merging. 
I'd love to see Sharp and Panasonic merge. Then you have a larger pool of former Pioneer folks working together, and might actually see the name Kuro Elite resurrected.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Sharp recently upped their investments in Pioneer ^^ so you never know. Good idea for all serious a/v-philes!

-Robert


----------



## markrogo

*Re: Sharp replacing president after huge loss expected for 2011*



Robert Zohn said:


> From reliable rumors (can their be a reliable rumor?) that I have been told we can expect three new 4k 2013-14 Elite displays, 60", 70" and 80". Launch will be in late October early November.


I hope this is true for two reasons:

1) Sharp's 4k stuff looks amazing
2) I could stuff it in the faces of hundreds of naysaying buffoons at another forum which shall not be named


----------



## Rukk

Robert Zohn said:


> I have a few favorites in your area:
> 
> John aka Gotchaa [email protected]
> 
> and Ray Jr. [email protected]
> 
> Two great ISF certified calibrators.
> 
> I also like Jeff Meier [email protected], who travels to Southern CA a few times annually.
> 
> Best,
> 
> -Robert


Hello Robert,

Just wanted to tell you thanks for the recommendations. I spoke to Ray and he was very forthcoming, knowledgeable, and professional. I was advised to wait for the saturation "fix" before getting a calibration (which of course with this set is easy to do considering how great the pre-calibration picture is). I will definitely seek him out when the time comes and look forward to him working on my beast. Thanks again.


----------



## Theatredaz

* Wow 4K Elites cool> I think I'll wait it out until 4K Led projectors become availble> could be 2-3 years though> LED projectors are the only option for me now> not interested in old outdated and quick degrading bulb technology that is out there now.


----------



## Radtech51

All Images were taken in (ISF Day) Picture mode, Calibrated by Kevin Miller. 
Please enjoy. :sn:


----------



## Rukk

You certainly chose the right material to display. Game of Thrones has gotten top rating in PQ from various reviews.


----------



## cdiez58

Does anyone have the pronto files for discrete on and off codes (their asking for the pronto files) Ive updated my 70x5 ...want to get the harmony 900 to play...I gave them Roberts string from his download...they came back and asked for the pronto files....any help would be much appreciated


----------



## lcaillo

I have not done much remote work for a while, but the best place to find files has been Remote Central. Probably still the place to look:

http://files.remotecentral.com/


----------



## cdiez58

lcaillo said:


> I have not done much remote work for a while, but the best place to find files has been Remote Central. Probably still the place to look:
> 
> http://files.remotecentral.com/


Thx so much...i actually replaced the pioneer elite pro141 codes i was using with the 151 which had the discrete on/off codes. The 141 has only power toggle in the harmony database....


----------



## Radtech51

I'm glad everyone enjoyed the pictures, I recently picked up season one and can't wait for season two! It just looks so amazing on the ELITE, just jaw dropping! :sn:


----------



## Rukk

Radtech51 said:


> I'm glad everyone enjoyed the pictures, I recently picked up season one and can't wait for season two! It just looks so amazing on the ELITE, just jaw dropping! :sn:



Yup! Next month! I have the blu-ray set as well. Just haven't cracked it open yet.


----------



## Jax20J

I am having a problem with the 70X5FD not accepting the Power On discrete code consistently at a client's home. It has had the firmware update and I am using a URC remote for control. It always powers on with the power toggle and always powers off with the discrete power off code. If I power on with the toggle command, the TV will power on and off just fine several times in a row via testing. However if a few minutes pass and the system is shut down the discrete on code will not work. If my discrete on code was bad then it shouldn't ever power the TV on. So is there a power setting or CEC setting that I am missing?? Or do I need a different power on code?? I'm stumped.:blink:


----------



## chansensturm

For what its worth, I'm experiencing the same exact problem (URC MX-980, 70X5FD w/latest firmware). Discrete off works perfectly, not on.


----------



## Mikey94025

chansensturm said:


> For what its worth, I'm experiencing the same exact problem (URC MX-980, 70X5FD w/latest firmware). Discrete off works perfectly, not on.


I also had unreliable results with the discrete power codes shortly after the new firmware update was announced. I have a Harmony remote and the Elite 60. 

I didn't experiment as extensively as you two have. I recall having difficulties with the tv not turning on with the rest of my system, so it sounds like a problem with power on too. I fell back to using the toggle code. I was using the Harmony database discrete power codes for one of the Pioneer Kuro models so maybe that was my mistake.


----------



## cdiez58

Mikey94025 said:


> I also had unreliable results with the discrete power codes shortly after the new firmware update was announced. I have a Harmony remote and the Elite 60.
> 
> I didn't experiment as extensively as you two have. I recall having difficulties with the tv not turning on with the rest of my system, so it sounds like a problem with power on too. I fell back to using the toggle code. I was using the Harmony database discrete power codes for one of the Pioneer Kuro models so maybe that was my mistake.


I ve been using the harmony config from the pioneer elite 161....has the discrete on/off codes as well as the toggle....when u set up you need to tell harmony wizard youre using separate on off power buttons


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Firmware update today for the flickering issue... I got off the phone with Will from Sharp... He said it greatly improves it, but they will have a follow up update to enhance it even more...


----------



## DJG

Thank you for confirming, fellow DJ! I was wondering about an early April Fool's prank, although one of the reporters on AVS has good credibility. I may need to rush home from work on an emergency .


----------



## Hutchinshouse

I just updated the firmware (via network), all went well. Any word if this includes the cyan fix too?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Just a note on 2.17. It greatly reduces the fluctuating brightness of backgrounds in all modes. More updates are in the works!

The best keep getting better!

-Robert


----------



## cdiez58

Robert Zohn said:


> Just a note on 2.17. It greatly reduces the fluctuating brightness of backgrounds in all modes. More updates are in the works!
> 
> The best keep getting better!
> 
> -Robert


Thanks Robert ....never lost the faith!!!

charlie


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Hutchinshouse said:


> I just updated the firmware (via network), all went well. Any word if this includes the cyan fix too?


Nope


----------



## insidiousfix

Robert Zohn said:


> Just a note on 2.17. It greatly reduces the fluctuating brightness of backgrounds in all modes. More updates are in the works!
> 
> The best keep getting better!
> 
> -Robert


I hope more updates are in the works cause the material I have been saving on my dvr to show the flicker....still show flickering.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

insidiousfix said:


> I hope more updates are in the works cause the material I have been saving on my dvr to show the flicker....still show flickering.


They are. Based on my discussion with Sharp, it really sounds like it's around the corner. I think they wanted to at least, for the moment, get some of the major kinks out to at least appease most current owners for the time being. You may want to try different content as it may be a bad feed especially coming from a cable source.


----------



## Ken Ross

insidiousfix said:


> I hope more updates are in the works cause the material I have been saving on my dvr to show the flicker....still show flickering.


My results and other guys reporting have shown a dramatic reduction. Not sure why you haven't seen an improvement. Sure your update was installed??


----------



## cdiez58

insidiousfix said:


> I hope more updates are in the works cause the material I have been saving on my dvr to show the flicker....still show flickering.


Remember....There can be bad source material too.....


----------



## insidiousfix

Ken Ross said:


> My results and other guys reporting have shown a dramatic reduction. Not sure why you haven't seen an improvement. Sure your update was installed??


It's not as bad a flicker. But it's still there. I am still going through my material I remember seeing it on.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Flickering has been dramatically reduced to almost nothing on my set. Sharp is getting there.... And to think there were folks who kept saying Sharp would never get a fix out.... Lol


----------



## obxdiver

GeneWildersHair said:


> Flickering has been dramatically reduced to almost nothing on my set. Sharp is getting there.... And to think there were folks who kept saying Sharp would never get a fix out.... Lol


The forums are pretty quite. Where are all of the nay sayers :hissyfit::rofl:


----------



## DYAUS

I gotta say, it is very funny when you hear people bash this set over and over and say things like a fw update is NEVER coming. Now that it has arrived it just makes the BEST even BETTER. And makes all the nay sayers even more jealous now! :sn:


----------



## Ken Ross

obxdiver said:


> The forums are pretty quite. Where are all of the nay sayers :hissyfit::rofl:


Fear not Obxdiver, the cyan error will now move to the top of the list and become an issue that those some guys 'just can't live with'. Never mind it's almost impossible to see it with actual content (not test patterns). It's already happening on that other forum. 

Bottom line? It will never end.


----------



## AZREOSpecialist

The pulsing is a far worse issue than the cyan non-issue. As far as I'm concerned it has been reduced to the point of being virtually unnoticeable. I don't care about the cyan thing since the color of this set is simply stunning already. This update makes the what's aleeady the best set on the market even better.


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Just a note on 2.17. It greatly reduces the fluctuating brightness of backgrounds in all modes. More updates are in the works!
> 
> The best keep getting better!
> 
> -Robert


Hi Robert, any idea if this update will effect my Calibration? :dontknow:


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Hi Robert, any idea if this update will effect my Calibration? :dontknow:


Rad, I would suggest not since it only addressed the pulsing and not the color. Beyond the almost total absence of pulsing in non-THX & ISF modes, there seems to be zero change to the color or other picture parameters.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> Rad, I would suggest not since it only addressed the pulsing and not the color. Beyond the almost total absence of pulsing in non-THX & ISF modes, there seems to be zero change to the color or other picture parameters.


Hi Ken, this might present a problem for me since I use Netflix through my ELITE. When I try to use Netflix now it says I need to do the update 1st. atm Netflix is broken for me. :rolleyesno:

I'll have to give the update a go tonight and see what happens, I hope your right my friend.


----------



## veger69

Radtech51 said:


> Hi Ken, this might present a problem for me since I use Netflix through my ELITE. When I try to use Netflix now it says I need to do the update 1st. atm Netflix is broken for me. :rolleyesno:
> 
> I'll have to give the update a go tonight and see what happens, I hope your right my friend.


I think Ken is stating it most likely will not effect your cal instead of "not to install update"


----------



## dsskid

Great to see the firmware is helping. Nice to see Sharp standing behind their product.


----------



## Ken Ross

veger69 said:


> I think Ken is stating it most likely will not effect your cal instead of "not to install update"


Yup, that's what I meant. My phrasing could have been better.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Radtech51 said:


> Hi Robert, any idea if this update will effect my Calibration? :dontknow:


Ken Ross is right again. This upgrade has no effect on calibration.

-Robert


----------



## cdiez58

Robert Zohn said:


> Ken Ross is right again. This upgrade has no effect on calibration.
> 
> -Robert


Also is retaining my discrete on/off commands when using my harmony 900


----------



## Robert Zohn

Yes if you followed the method I have been emailing to anyone who requests Elite discrete codes then no upgrade will effect them. The method I email loads the discrete codes into the display and no upgrade will ever effect them.

-Robert


----------



## Rukk

Robert Zohn said:


> Yes if you followed the method I have been emailing to anyone who requests Elite discrete codes then no upgrade will effect them. The method I email loads the discrete codes into the display and no upgrade will ever effect them.
> 
> -Robert


I'm unsure of what to do. I've asked for the codes via the email link here. Is that correct or should I use a different address?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Rukk, send me the email directly [email protected] and I'll immediately email back the proper procedure to get the discrete codes into your Elite TV.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Richard, if you install an update later than 2.15 it will have the discrete codes in it - you don't need to install 2.15. The FW updates replace each other. Similarly if you apply 2.15 after applying 2.17 it will lose the 2.17 features and end up with the discrete codes but no pulsing fix and whatever was in 2.16, which is in the 2.17 upgrade also.


----------



## DJG

Robert, I can't believe I just called you Richard


----------



## Rukk

Robert Zohn said:


> Rukk, send me the email directly [email protected] and I'll immediately email back the proper procedure to get the discrete codes into your Elite TV.
> 
> -Robert


I believe Robert has the codes by themselves. He had them way before update 2.15. Of course if they are included and already there then that's another issue.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thank you Rukk, yes I got them directly from Sharp at the end of October, 2011 and tested them thoroughly before offering them in early November.

DJG, I did not know they were in later FW updates. Good to know. 

-Robert


----------



## Rukk

Robert Zohn said:


> Thank you Rukk, yes I got them directly from Sharp at the end of October, 2011 and tested them thoroughly before offering them in early November.
> 
> DJG, I did not know they were in later FW updates. Good to know.
> 
> -Robert



And thank YOU Robert! I received your email. Thanks again! I believe I thanked you for your recommendations on calibrators. I reached out and they were very helpful and knowledgeable. If not, allow me to thank you now.


----------



## DJG

Rukk said:


> I believe Robert has the codes by themselves. He had them way before update 2.15. Of course if they are included and already there then that's another issue.


Yes, if you do the 2.17 update you will have them. I did initially get them way back from Robert when he first had them, though . Just trying to save you some extra work.


----------



## Rukk

DJG said:


> Yes, if you do the 2.17 update you will have them. I did initially get them way back from Robert when he first had them, though . Just trying to save you some extra work.


Thanks. Much appreciated. Gotta love this community!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Rukk said:


> And thank YOU Robert! I received your email. Thanks again! I believe I thanked you for your recommendations on calibrators. I reached out and they were very helpful and knowledgeable. If not, allow me to thank you now.





DJG said:


> Yes, if you do the 2.17 update you will have them. I did initially get them way back from Robert when he first had them, though . Just trying to save you some extra work.


Thank you fellow HTS members! I enjoy helping in any and all ways within my power and ability.

Enjoy!

-Robert


----------



## rab-byte

Robert
I sent you a request for codes


----------



## Kalik

first time poster. am considering the Elite but was wondering what exactly these discrete codes are in reference to. do they apply to people who use a universal remote such as the Harmony One? I'm just trying to figure out how it applies to me (or if it even does). can someone give me a basic explantion of what its function is. Thanks


----------



## DJG

Kalik said:


> first time poster. am considering the Elite but was wondering what exactly these discrete codes are in reference to. do they apply to people who use a universal remote such as the Harmony One? I'm just trying to figure out how it applies to me (or if it even does). can someone give me a basic explantion of what its function is. Thanks


Discrete power codes use two different command codes - one to turn off and a different one to turn on, allowing exact control of the TV's power state, rather than a single command that toggles the power off and on using the same code repeatedly.

This allows you to set up two macros that can turn the whole HT on or off without depending on everything being on or off at the time of the command, assuming you also have discrete power codes for the rest of the HT equipment.


----------



## Robert Zohn

rab-byte said:


> Robert
> I sent you a request for codes


I'll be back in my store on tomorrow so look for them tomorrow morning.

-Robert



Kalik said:


> first time poster. am considering the Elite but was wondering what exactly these discrete codes are in reference to. do they apply to people who use a universal remote such as the Harmony One? I'm just trying to figure out how it applies to me (or if it even does). can someone give me a basic explantion of what its function is. Thanks


DJG, nice explanation on the discrete on and off codes. 

Kalik, welcome to HTS! May I suggest taking the Metro North Harlem line from Grand Central to Scarsdale (30 Minuet train ride) to visit our showroom and see the Elite on our famous Shootout wall to see how it performs against all other brands of high-end displays.

-Robert


----------



## Kalik

DJG said:


> Discrete power codes use two different command codes - one to turn off and a different one to turn on, allowing exact control of the TV's power state, rather than a single command that toggles the power off and on using the same code repeatedly.
> 
> This allows you to set up two macros that can turn the whole HT on or off without depending on everything being on or off at the time of the command, assuming you also have discrete power codes for the rest of the HT equipment.


thanks for the reply. so if my Blu-ray player is on while everthing else in my HT (TV, speakers, cable box etc) is powered off these discrete codes allow me to use my universal remote to still control my HT without having to power off my Blu-ray player first?

thanks for the invite Robert.


----------



## DJG

Kalik said:


> thanks for the reply. so if my Blu-ray player is on while everthing else in my HT (TV, speakers, cable box etc) is powered off these discrete codes allow me to use my universal remote to still control my HT without having to power off my Blu-ray player first?
> 
> thanks for the invite Robert.


Discrete power codes are most useful when you want to control several comnponents at the same time. For individual control, the normal toggling power commands are fine, because you want to reverse the state of the particular gear from what it currently is. But when you need to control more than one component simultaneously, they need to be synchronized for the toggling codes to work, i.e. all components need to be in the same state when the codes are sent, and it's hard to ensure that will be true.

The idea is to have discrete codes for each piece of equipment. You then create two macros, one for "ON" and one for "OFF". You add all the "ON" discrete codes to the "ON" macro, and the "OFF" codes to the "OFF" macro.

When the "ON" macro sends the "ON" codes to the equipment, anything that is on will remain on, rather than toggle to the off state, and anything off will be powered on. Same in reverse when the "OFF" macro sends the "OFF" codes - everything will be powered off regardles of its current state - no toggling of the powered state.

Hope I didn't make that too confusing!


----------



## Kalik

thanks for the detailed info DJG. not trying to derail the thread so I'll let it go. I guess it doesn't really apply to me anyhow as I'm able to control my HT fine with my Harmony One. My blu-ray player, plasma TV, AVR and cable box work fine with it. plus most/all of the time they are always in synch in terms of their power states.

but I also set my Harmony for different activities (Watch TV and Watch Blu-ray are 2 examples). when I click 'Watch TV' on the Harmony's touch screen my cable box, TV and AVR turn on and my Blu-ray player remains Off. While those things are all ON I can then click 'Watch Blu-ray' if I want to watch a blu-ray movie and it doesn't affect the states of my other devices (which remain On). it's only when I click the 'Power Off' button on my Harmony where it affects all my devices.

I think I'm just confusing myself with these discrete codes so I'll just be happy that everything works now and hopefully it will still work when/if I get the Elite.


----------



## Robert Zohn

In NYC, FiOS and Time Warner boxes do not have discrete "on" and discrete "off" codes. So for example if the cable box is on and you select on with your Harmony or cable remote the box will turn off, when you actually want it on. If they had discrete "on" and discrete "off" codes that would not happen.

Our techs do not program cable or FiOS boxes to turn on or off, we suggest leaving the box on and leave it out of you macro command string.

Hope this helps.

-Robert


----------



## Theatredaz

*It's promising to see Sharp Elite follow up with firmware updates on the display...Especially since that last firmware has adressed a considerable issue with the display. Keep them coming.


----------



## Weaselboy

Kalik said:


> I think I'm just confusing myself with these discrete codes so I'll just be happy that everything works now and hopefully it will still work when/if I get the Elite.


I'm using a Harmony One with my Elite along with an AVR and DVR as well as a Blu_ray player and the H1 controls everything just fine. The Elite is in the Logitech database. You will be fine.


----------



## rab-byte

Robert Zohn said:


> I'll be back in my store on tomorrow so look for them tomorrow morning.
> 
> 
> -Robert


thanks Robert I'll keep my eyes peeled for your Email.


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Ken Ross is right again. This upgrade has no effect on calibration.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks my friend :sn:


----------



## Kalik

any price cuts looming? Elite has been out now for over 6 months now. Would love to see the 60" drop under $4000


----------



## JimP

With the Panasonic 65VT50 around the corner, can't help but wonder how they'll compare in both pricing and picture quality.


----------



## Ken Ross

JimP said:


> With the Panasonic 65VT50 around the corner, can't help but wonder how they'll compare in both pricing and picture quality.


I can tell you off the bat it won't have the dynamic range of the Elite or brilliant full screen whites. More than likely its black levels also won't be as good.

A plasma's ABL will see to that. 

OTOH it will have better viewing angles.


----------



## jwcole1224

Robert,

Is there any new news on the "color" fix?
Should I hold off on getting my set calibrated?

Thanks
Jerry


----------



## Ken Ross

jwcole1224 said:


> Robert,
> 
> Is there any new news on the "color" fix?
> Should I hold off on getting my set calibrated?
> 
> Thanks
> Jerry


We didn't know about the pulsing fix until it arrived on our doorstep, so the cyan fix may be released the same way.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Ken Ross said:


> We didn't know about the pulsing fix until it arrived on our doorstep, so the cyan fix may be released the same way.


And from what I understand it's already been stated that another pulsing fix is coming soon since he first one didn't totally get rid of it.


----------



## Robert Zohn

jwcole1224 said:


> Robert,
> 
> Is there any new news on the "color" fix?
> Should I hold off on getting my set calibrated?
> 
> Thanks
> Jerry


From what I'm told Sharp is still working on the cyan color fix, but I do not have confirmation of when or even if it will come out. I would suggest going ahead with the calibration.

-Robert



GeneWildersHair said:


> And from what I understand it's already been stated that another pulsing fix is coming soon since he first one didn't totally get rid of it.


You are correct.

-Robert


----------



## jwcole1224

Robert,

Thank-you
I was leaning that way too, calibration it is.




Robert Zohn said:


> From what I'm told Sharp is still working on the cyan color fix, but I do not have confirmation of when or even if it will come out. I would suggest going ahead with the calibration.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## dsskid

JimP said:


> With the Panasonic 65VT50 around the corner, can't help but wonder how they'll compare in both pricing and picture quality.


I'm curious about this as well.


----------



## davidjschenk

Robert Zohn said:


> From what I'm told Sharp is still working on the cyan color fix, but I do not have confirmation of when or even if it will come out. I would suggest going ahead with the calibration.
> 
> -Robert


Hi Robert,

Seriously?? They still haven't fixed it?? Wow...so the issue must have been much, much more deep-seated than we were led to believe, yes? That's really a shame, because those X5s were fantastic but for that one major problem.

Yours,

David

P.S.: Oh, yeah--I've been gone for, like, forever, but it's really good to be back online now. I hope and trust all's well in Scarsdale. Give my love to your family.


----------



## Rukk

davidjschenk said:


> Hi Robert,
> 
> Seriously?? They still haven't fixed it?? Wow...so the issue must have been much, much more deep-seated than we were led to believe, yes? That's really a shame, because those X5s were fantastic but for that one major problem.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David
> 
> P.S.: Oh, yeah--I've been gone for, like, forever, but it's really good to be back online now. I hope and trust all's well in Scarsdale. Give my love to your family.


Uhmmm I don't think it's a "major" problem. Merely a persistant one. I own a set and the picture is beautiful (cyan issue notwithstanding). The only reason it would be considered a "major" problem by anyone is because they want their purchase to be perfect and that's just not realistic.

On another note, Robert, your suggestion to proceed with a calibration despite this ongoing issue is interesting. Is it your opinion getting a 'bration prior to a "fix" will not throw it off post fix to the point it's noticeable?


----------



## davidjschenk

Rukk said:


> Uhmmm I don't think it's a "major" problem. Merely a persistant one. I own a set and the picture is beautiful (cyan issue notwithstanding). The only reason it would be considered a "major" problem by anyone is because they want their purchase to be perfect and that's just not realistic.


Sure, that's fine. Different people have different priorities, which is all to the good. Personally, I was sufficiently frustrated with the colors of the X5 at Robert's shootout that I actually voted for the Samsung plasma as my personal favorite for 2011. Still, it's not like the color reproduction on the X5s and VT30s were so bad that I'd be unhappy with either of those TVs. Enjoy your TV.

Yours,

David


----------



## DJG

You mean the defective X5 . The good ones look much better!


----------



## davidjschenk

DJG said:


> You mean the defective X5 . The good ones look much better!


Hi DJG,

You mean Robert's is atypical??? Oh!--I hadn't realized that. I had assumed the flaw was across all units. So yours has no discernible problem with cyan and the like? Interesting. Does anyone know what percent of them are defective? If some have no color issues at all, then I begin to wonder why Sharp is having so much trouble fixing it. Curiouser and curiouser...

Yours,

David


----------



## cdiez58

davidjschenk said:


> Sure, that's fine. Different people have different priorities, which is all to the good. Personally, I was sufficiently frustrated with the colors of the X5 at Robert's shootout that I actually voted for the Samsung plasma as my personal favorite for 2011. Still, it's not like the color reproduction on the X5s and VT30s were so bad that I'd be unhappy with either of those TVs. Enjoy your TV.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Please...Ive read your posts...you said you were envious of Elite owners..OK no big deal, but you dont own one. and dont pretend you really know this set, because if you did you would know this color issue is so minor that if someone told you about and you tried to look for it 999/1000 times you could'nt find it...and Im not sure its on all sets. That Samsung, as nice as it is doesnt hold a candle to this set...(a completely dark room levels the playing field some) Im a videophile that rarely get his "jaw dropped". Usually its at CES...this set regularly delivers a "jaw dropping" experience. Your comments talk about different people having different priorites...Well if this is your priority.. to me its like your saying your wouldn't go on a date with Giselle because you heard she had a small mole on the back of her neck...


----------



## davidjschenk

cdiez58 said:


> Please...Ive read your posts...you said you were envious of Elite owners..OK no big deal, but you dont own one. and dont pretend you really know this set, because if you did you would know this color issue is so minor that if someone told you about and you tried to look for it 999/1000 times you could'nt find it...and Im not sure its on all sets. That Samsung, as nice as it is doesnt hold a candle to this set...(a completely dark room levels the playing field some) Im a videophile that rarely get his "jaw dropped". Usually its at CES...this set regularly delivers a "jaw dropping" experience. Your comments talk about different people having different priorites...Well if this is your priority.. to me its like your saying your wouldn't go on a date with Giselle because you heard she had a small mole on the back of her neck...


Woa--relax, man. My emotions are not in this, okay? I have no agenda here.

I was envious of Elite owners, as were nearly all of us when it first came out. I still think it's a great, great TV, but the day before the shootout I sat there with Kevin, D-Nice, and Robert and stared long and hard at all the TVs up there on the wall, and between the lot of us, it was a swift consensus that the Sharp's colors were surprisingly off. True, none of us noticed that at first when it hit the streets, but when compared side-by-side with all the others, the issue was very apparent. Now, does this mean I think it's anything less than a great TV? Certainly not. But would I have bought it over the others? Honestly, probably not. As noticeably worse as the Samsung plasma's black levels were, I still liked it better in the end. Its colors were just rock solid, you know? Now, not everyone is bothered by the sorts of color issues I saw on that thing, which is why I said different people have different priorities, right? But don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, I do.

Anyway, don't sweat it--I'm not upset by your reaction or anything. It's all good.

Yours,

David


----------



## cdiez58

davidjschenk said:


> Woa--relax, man. My emotions are not in this, okay? I have no agenda here.
> 
> I was envious of Elite owners, as were nearly all of us when it first came out. I still think it's a great, great TV, but the day before the shootout I sat there with Kevin, D-Nice, and Robert and stared long and hard at all the TVs up there on the wall, and between the lot of us, it was a swift consensus that the Sharp's colors were surprisingly off. True, none of us noticed that at first when it hit the streets, but when compared side-by-side with all the others, the issue was very apparent. Now, does this mean I think it's anything less than a great TV? Certainly not. But would I have bought it over the others? Honestly, probably not. As noticeably worse as the Samsung plasma's black levels were, I still liked it better in the end. Its colors were just rock solid, you know? Now, not everyone is bothered by the sorts of color issues I saw on that thing, which is why I said different people have different priorities, right? But don't tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Yes, I do.
> 
> Anyway, don't sweat it--I'm not upset by your reaction or anything. It's all good.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Well... I'd love to hear what D-Nice, Robert and Kevin say about your consensus...and: Im not sweating it just doing a litte "Dennis Miller" shtick...:clap:


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> You mean the defective X5 . The good ones look much better!


Yes. A properly functioning Elite should not have been that washed out. Now that we know what a properly calibrated & functioning Elite looks like, it's pretty obvious something was not right with the shootout sample.


----------



## Ken Ross

davidjschenk said:


> As noticeably worse as the Samsung plasma's black levels were, I still liked it better in the end. Its colors were just rock solid, you know? Now, not everyone is bothered by the sorts of color issues I saw on that thing, which is why I said different people have different priorities, right?
> 
> David


The big difference to me is that a relatively poor black level is more noticeable than an error in a non-primary color. One, as you already stated, sometimes requires an A/B with another display to even spot the error. Issues with black levels don't, they're much more easily noticed on their own. 

Aside from one instance of seeing the issue, I can honestly state I've never seen it again.


----------



## Rukk

Ken Ross said:


> The big difference to me is that a relatively poor black level is more noticeable than an error in a non-primary color. One, as you already stated, sometimes requires an A/B with another display to even spot the error. Issues with black levels don't, they're much more easily noticed on their own.
> 
> Aside from one instance of seeing the issue, I can honestly state I've never seen it again.



The bottom line is the majority of people who make the most noise about the cyan issue are those that don't even own a set! This very forum has proven that. My question is "why"?


----------



## dsskid

Ken Ross said:


> The big difference to me is that a relatively poor black level is more noticeable than an error in a non-primary color. One, as you already stated, sometimes requires an A/B with another display to even spot the error. Issues with black levels don't, they're much more easily noticed on their own.
> 
> Aside from one instance of seeing the issue, I can honestly state I've never seen it again.


Ken,
I happen to think the Elite is a fine looking display. Unfortunately for some, much like a stuck pixel, or FBr issue, once you see it, it can become an obsession and take away somewhat from the viewing experience. Different issues affect different people. 

Cheers to all the Elite owners who are enjoying their displays, however, everyone has opinion and is entitled to it. This is a discussion forum, where HT related topics are discussed. Noone should take offense just because someone's opinion may not be in agreement with someone else's



Rukk said:


> The bottom line is the majority of people who make the most noise about the cyan issue are those that don't even own a set! This very forum has proven that. My question is "why"?


Why does someone have to own something in order to express an opinion? If this is the case, Robert shouldn't have held a shootout, and everyone there's ballot should have been disqualified, because at that point there were only one or two who actually owned one.

I know David spent a good amount of time assessing the displays at the shootout, so why is his opinion less than anyone else's?

Rukk, does someone else's opinion change how you feel about your display? If Sharp sold one less display because someone agreed with an opinion different than your own, would it affect your bottom line? 

So why not let everyone express their opinion?

P.S. the last time I checked, this was the Elite Pro-60XFD and Pro-70FD "Discussion Thread", and not "Owner's Thread".


----------



## davidjschenk

cdiez58 said:


> Well... I'd love to hear what D-Nice, Robert and Kevin say about your consensus...and: Im not sweating it just doing a litte "Dennis Miller" shtick...:clap:


Heh. :boxer:

Calibrator/store owner voting was done privately so as to avoid swaying public opinion, but since I was there, I can tell you. IIRC, D-Nice voted for the Samsung plasma, Robert for the X5, and I think Kevin was torn between the VT30 and one other TV--either the X5 or the Samsung plasma, I can't recall which. I do not recall what Ed Johnson's vote was.



Ken Ross said:


> Yes. A properly functioning Elite should not have been that washed out. Now that we know what a properly calibrated & functioning Elite looks like, it's pretty obvious something was not right with the shootout sample.


Ohhhhh--well, that changes everything then, doesn't it? Thanks much, Ken. I've been out of circulation for a very long time, so I haven't kept up with this stuff. If this is only a sometime problem that varies from unit to unit, then I suppose in principle it's really no different from the fluctuating brightness issues on the Panasonics and for 2011 even the Samsungs (a bit). So no gray/blue cyans or purpley magentas on your X5, eh? That would've changed my shootout vote for sure, as the colors were my only real complaint. Even the gamma on that thing was wondrous.

I do get what you're saying about the black levels. That's the reason I went with a B8500 way back when (still have it). And there the X5 really did just romp all over the competition, as I recall. Hey, even the viewing angle was surprisingly good. It's just that the aesthetic experience for me depends on both good real world contrast ratio and good colors. For the money Sharp wanted, I figured they needed to deliver both. But from what you say, I guess maybe they did.

So do you know or does anyone you know know what the percentage is of units that have the flaw? Of those that don't, do they have it, but only very mildly, or are their colors just spot on? If the latter, then I have to imagine Sharp eventually will find a way to fix it on the flawed units. No??

Non-confrontationally yours,

David


----------



## DJG

David, all units have the "cyan" flaw, it's just not noticeable under normal viewing. Much more problematic is a "pulsing" issue that happens under certain content and local dimming settings. This has been greatly reduced in a recent firmware upgrade. It's still occasionally visible if you look for it, and will be further addressed in another FW upgrade, but now is a much lesser concern, not a great one. They're still working on the color issue.


----------



## jwcole1224

I've owned the 60X for a couple of weeks now and overall I'm very pleased with it.
It replaces a 5 year old 52XBR4, which served me well.

In my opinion, the off angle viewing is far worse on the Elite, when compared to the Sony.
But this is not a deal buster, I can live with it.

I was aware of this color issue before my purchase and still truly believe that Sharp is going to make this right at some point. And even if they don't, the other factors that went into my decision to purchase still apply.

I evaluated the Elite, Panasonic's VT30 and Samsung's 7000/8000 series plasma. I could've been happy with any of them, even though they all have flaws. 
For our viewing habits and requirements, the Elite was simply the best fit.


----------



## dsskid

Congrats on your display. Enjoy.


----------



## davidjschenk

DJG said:


> David, all units have the "cyan" flaw, it's just not noticeable under normal viewing. Much more problematic is a "pulsing" issue that happens under certain content and local dimming settings. This has been greatly reduced in a recent firmware upgrade. It's still occasionally visible if you look for it, and will be further addressed in another FW upgrade, but now is a much lesser concern, not a great one. They're still working on the color issue.


Hi DJG,

Thanks, that's just what I wanted to know. BTW, I apologize to anyone for whom this is a tiring recitation of old news. It's just that I've been away from the home theater world since last September/October and am now playing catch-up. So the pulsing you refer to relates to the local dimming? That makes perfect sense, as the LD zones will always respond to changes much more slowly than the LCD pixels, so getting them to behave properly 100% of the time is inescapably tricky algorithmic business. It is good to hear that Sharp has just about mastered it.

The color issue surprised me when I came back online yesterday mostly because during the shootout I was vigorously shaking the Sharp rep's hand (Tom Evans) and congratulating him and Sharp for what they'd achieved (without the color issue that thing would've been my uncontested and uncontestable runaway favorite), and at the time he was confident that the fix was simple and would take maybe a month at most. So to read last night that it still isn't done threw me for a loop. It does pique my intellectual curiosity about just what might underlie the hold-up, too, you know? I'll have to PM or call Robert and see what he can tell me about this. From knowing the level of Sharp and Pioneer's investment in the X5 project, I'm quite certain it cannot be due to laziness or apathy, that's for sure.

Yours,

David


----------



## mechman

David,

Good to see you back! Where have you been?


----------



## Ken Ross

dsskid said:


> Ken,
> I happen to think the Elite is a fine looking display. Unfortunately for some, much like a stuck pixel, or FBr issue, once you see it, it can become an obsession and take away somewhat from the viewing experience. Different issues affect different people.
> 
> Cheers to all the Elite owners who are enjoying their displays, however, everyone has opinion and is entitled to it. This is a discussion forum, where HT related topics are discussed. Noone should take offense just because someone's opinion may not be in agreement with someone else's


I certainly took no offense, but I stand by what I said as more factual than opinion. It's simply a fact that certain display anomalies are better seen (or only seen) in an A/B environment and others are more easily seen on their own.

BTW, on most forums, particularly an unnamed one, there is absolutely no difference between an owner's thread and a discussion thread. Therein lies the problem.


----------



## Ken Ross

davidjschenk said:


> So no gray/blue cyans or purpley magentas on your X5, eh? That would've changed my shootout vote for sure, as the colors were my only real complaint. Even the gamma on that thing was wondrous.
> 
> David


David, what I was trying to say (and probably not saying it well) is that yes, the cyan error does exist and probably does in virtually all units. However (and it's a big 'however') is that owners typically don't see this error in normal program material.

I first reported it in looking at the glass blocks on the Today Show. So yes, mine does have the error. But have I seen it since? No. Does cyan at lower luminance levels (where the error of this non-primary color exists) typically show up in the average material? No. When it does, would an owner recognize it without a display that doesn't have this same error? Not in my opinion.

So you begin to see the difference in a flaw that frequently manifests itself and is easily seen in most program material without the need of an A/B and one like I've described above. To me this is a world of difference.


----------



## DJG

davidjschenk said:


> Hi DJG,
> ...
> 
> I'll have to PM or call Robert and see what he can tell me about this. From knowing the level of Sharp and Pioneer's investment in the X5 project, I'm quite certain it cannot be due to laziness or apathy, that's for sure.
> 
> Yours,
> 
> David


Robert reported some time ago they had done some work on it but wanted it to be close to perfect before realeasing. I have a feeling the mathematical implications of the yellow pixel has turned out to be more challenging than anticipated .

I'm sure it's not because of lack of effort - they took some time in acknowledging the LD pulsing issue, much later than the color issue which has been discussion-wise a much more touchy issue, yet they surprised us with a pulsing remedial FW upgrade.


----------



## davidjschenk

mechman said:


> David,
> 
> Good to see you back! Where have you been?


Hi mechman,

Thanks! I've been fine--I just needed to take an extended break from home theater and "unplug" for a while.



Ken Ross said:


> David, what I was trying to say (and probably not saying it well) is that yes, the cyan error does exist and probably does in virtually all units. However (and it's a big 'however') is that owners typically don't see this error in normal program material.
> 
> I first reported it in looking at the glass blocks on the Today Show. So yes, mine does have the error. But have I seen it since? No. Does cyan at lower luminance levels (where the error of this non-primary color exists) typically show up in the average material? No. When it does, would an owner recognize it without a display that doesn't have this same error? Not in my opinion.
> 
> So you begin to see the difference in a flaw that frequently manifests itself and is easily seen in most program material without the need of an A/B and one like I've described above. To me this is a world of difference.


Hi Ken,

I get it now, yeah. Thanks. Well, I'll still hold out hope that pathological perfectionists (like me) will get what they/we dream of through a firmware update. After all, if that happens, then the Kuro legacy will really and truly be alive again (and in a locally dimmed TV, if ye can believe it!).



DJG said:


> Robert reported some time ago they had done some work on it but wanted it to be close to perfect before realeasing. I have a feeling the mathematical implications of the yellow pixel has turned out to be more challenging than anticipated .


Hi DJG,

Yeah, that's the hunch I've been playing with all day. It's the only thing I can think of that could slow them down, so that's what I'd put odds on. I'll have my fingers crossed.

Yours,

David


----------



## Rukk

dsskid said:


> Ken,
> I happen to think the Elite is a fine looking display. Unfortunately for some, much like a stuck pixel, or FBr issue, once you see it, it can become an obsession and take away somewhat from the viewing experience. Different issues affect different people.
> 
> Cheers to all the Elite owners who are enjoying their displays, however, everyone has opinion and is entitled to it. This is a discussion forum, where HT related topics are discussed. Noone should take offense just because someone's opinion may not be in agreement with someone else's
> 
> 
> Why does someone have to own something in order to express an opinion? If this is the case, Robert shouldn't have held a shootout, and everyone there's ballot should have been disqualified, because at that point there were only one or two who actually owned one.
> 
> I know David spent a good amount of time assessing the displays at the shootout, so why is his opinion less than anyone else's?
> 
> Rukk, does someone else's opinion change how you feel about your display? If Sharp sold one less display because someone agreed with an opinion different than your own, would it affect your bottom line?
> 
> So why not let everyone express their opinion?
> 
> P.S. the last time I checked, this was the Elite Pro-60XFD and Pro-70FD "Discussion Thread", and not "Owner's Thread".


Hmm. I just re read my post. At no time did I mention someone needed to own something to have an opinion or that I agreed or disagreed with it. I merely stated what the bottom line was regarding a prevailing opinion. I gave no opinion one way or the other as to if I "liked" that fact or not. In fact, I asked "why" (which, if I'm not mistaken, would actually generate "discussion"). I hope this demonstrates I know this is "DISCUSSION THREAD" and didn't need to be reminded of that. Thank you


----------



## jwcole1224

I send off an inquiry about the "color fix" to Elite support.
I feel it doesn't hurt to repeatedly bring it to their attention.
I received the following response:

Thank you for contacting Elite Support. Presently there is no update as to when the firmware will be released that will correct the color issue. When we do release the update that corrects the issue, we will post the information on <web site>

Best Regards,
Elite Support


Of course, the optimist that I am, sees only "When we do release ...", LOL.


----------



## lcaillo

Most vendors would never admit to there even being a problem, particularly something as minor as this.


----------



## jwcole1224

I very much agree with you, this is a minor issue.
But if possible, I'd like to see it fixed.


----------



## Widamere

I have a dumb question I guess....what causes the screen door effect? I have problems w/ the blacks in dark sceens.


----------



## Radtech51

Widamere said:


> I have a dumb question I guess....what causes the screen door effect? I have problems w/ the blacks in dark sceens.


lddude:I found this for you, just googled the question hope it helps some. 

"Definition: The Screen Door Effect is an LCD artifact that is mostly associated with LCD video projectors. The image projected by an LCD projector is made up individual pixels. These pixels are separated by black (non-lit) borders. As you increase the size of the projected image (or decrease the resolution on same size screen) the individual pixel borders are more likely to become visible, thus giving the appearance of viewing the image through a "screen door". To eliminate this effect, an increasing number of manufacturers use various technologies to decrease the visibility of the non-lit pixel borders."


----------



## DJG

Widamere said:


> I have a dumb question I guess....what causes the screen door effect? I have problems w/ the blacks in dark sceens.


Hmmm, I've never seen the screen door effect in my 70X5 in either dim or bright scenes, and I have a very dark setting - my backlight is at 25 in ISF, about -15 in the THX setting


----------



## Widamere

Tnx for the quick responses. I have the 60x5, and the blacks around the edges, as if in a circle around the object, are very grainy. I was using the Cnet settings while watching the Kings Speech, and the picture was not very good. I have been using the pure elite mode more often lately, but still get that effect, but its not as bad now :dontknow:
IVC: Adv. Middle
OPC: off
B.light: +2
Contrast: +23
Brightness: +2
Color: 0
Tint: +1
Sharp: +3 
Color Temp.: Middle
Motion Enhanch.: 120hz High
Precision Color: On
Active Contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Film Mode: Off
Digital Noise Reduction: Middle


----------



## Ken Ross

I don't see any SD effect on my 60" Elite. It's more unusual to see it in 1080p displays. It was more common with 720p displays.


----------



## Widamere

Ken, do you still use the CNET settings? I found that far too dark. I guess I like my picture too bright :sad:


----------



## Ken Ross

Widamere said:


> Ken, do you still use the CNET settings? I found that far too dark. I guess I like my picture too bright :sad:


No, my display was ISF'd by Kevin Miller. But to be honest, I've not seen a screen door effect from any 1080p display I've owned.


----------



## DJG

Do you see the SD effect in all sources (Blu-ray, DVD, cable/satellite)? Do you only see it in some program material, or do you always see it under the same circumstance in every source?

If you were getting a poor picture with Cnet settings, and are never getting a great-looking picture, there may be something wrong with your set.

I'm watching right now "Separate Lies" in DirecTV HBO2 HD and the picture looks great - skin tones, blacks, highlights, contrast. This is obviously a great transfer, one of the best ones I've seen in DirecTV.


----------



## jwcole1224

Widamere said:


> Ken, do you still use the CNET settings? I found that far too dark. I guess I like my picture too bright :sad:


I've been running the CNET settings and they've worked pretty well. 
Try them again, if you used to a real bright display it may take a day or two to be accustomed to these settings.
Mine gets ISF calibrated tomorrow, the wife thinks I'm crazy, but oh well.

I too have not noticed any screen door effect, not even on my old 52xbr4.


----------



## Widamere

Maybe I am wrong in calling it a screen door effect, there is just alot of noise on black items, like shirts and doors in the back ground etc.... When I was watching Kings Speech it was on B.R. I have a PS3 going through a Denon 3308 to the Elite


----------



## DJG

I get no noise at all on black and deep shadows, unless it's in the content. Make sure your receiver isn't messing up the signal - check that there's no unneeded processing going on, and use a pass-through mode in the receiver if available. Maybe you should do a test and run the BD player straight to the Elite and see if you still have the same problem.


----------



## davidjschenk

Widamere said:


> Maybe I am wrong in calling it a screen door effect, there is just alot of noise on black items, like shirts and doors in the back ground etc.... When I was watching Kings Speech it was on B.R. I have a PS3 going through a Denon 3308 to the Elite


Hi Widamere,

This problem you're having: is it a matter of dark areas of the picture, especially those surrounding brighter objects, having "speckles" of slightly lighter gray? If so, I'll say I've seen this phenomenon quite often in LCDs that have brightness too high. Also, do yourself an important favor and make sure you have all image processing except local dimming turned OFF. Definitely do not use any dynamic contrast, black level enhancers (except LD), color enhancers, edge enhancers, or other such features, as they often exaggerate such artifacts.

For your most accurate picture your goal should be to set brightness so that a 1% luminance box on a calibration DVD (there are many free downloadable ones, of which my favorites are HCFR and AVS HD) just barely manages to light up against a black background. If, after you've done that, you find the picture too dark for your tastes, just raise the backlight setting to whatever you find visually pleasing. Now, in the interest of full disclosure I should note that I almost always find locally dimmed TVs need their brightness set just one or two steps higher than the calibration patterns say. Otherwise, nasty visual artifacts tend to crop up. I've been working with locally dimmed TVs extensively since they first came to market (in 2007, I think it was) and this is habitual with them. Still, if the 1% signal box pattern tells you to set brightness at 40, putting it at 41 or 42 should work fine and should not produce any of those gray speckles that are bothering you (assuming that is what you're seeing...).

I hope this helps.

Yours,

David


----------



## Widamere

Hmmmm, some good tips. I will have to dig out my manual for the Denon and make sure that is all off. David, yeah, speckels is a good way to discribe it.... i'll test out your tips!!!!! Tnx all for your time and trouble:clap:
I would just like the dang picture to be 'clear', no little black dots and artifacting :innocent: At least football season is still a few months away...plenty of time for tweaking :T


----------



## Widamere

Side note, how do you find a good calibrator....not the geek squad from Best Buy:nono:
I live in L.A., San Fernando valley


----------



## davidjschenk

Widamere said:


> Side note, how do you find a good calibrator....not *the geek squad from Best Buy*:nono:
> I live in L.A., San Fernando valley


Heh! Those aren't calibrators...

I think HTS has a list of professional calibrators somewhere here in its forums. That'd be a great place to start, IMO. In any case, the LA area has TONS of very, very good calibrators. If I'm not mistaken, David Abrams is out there somewhere nearby, and by all reports he is outstanding.

Yours,

David


----------



## dsskid

RayJr is also an excellent pro calibrator in your area.


----------



## mechman

Widamere said:


> Side note, how do you find a good calibrator....not the geek squad from Best Buy:nono:
> I live in L.A., San Fernando valley


We maintain a list here. But as John stated, RayJr is in your area and is a member here. You can pm him. :T


----------



## jwcole1224

Has anyone had their set ISF calibrated since the last firmware update?

I had an ISF calibrator out today and my set could not be calibrated in ISF mode day/night.
The greyscale above 50 would not calibrate correctly. Looked like a rainbow.

He was able to calibrate correctly in THX mode however and it looks great.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Richard in SF

jwcole1224 said:


> Has anyone had their set ISF calibrated since the last firmware update?
> 
> I had an ISF calibrator out today and my set could not be calibrated in ISF mode day/night.
> The greyscale above 50 would not calibrate correctly. Looked like a rainbow.
> 
> He was able to calibrate correctly in THX mode however and it looks great.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Mine was calibrated after the update with no real problems except a few swear words. I'm sorry that I'm too ignorant to give you any pointers, but I do have a question for you. Has your calibrator done other Elites? This is not "your father's Oldsmobile". Sorry, another question: did either of you call Elite tech support?

My day & night calibrated settings are far superior to ANY of the canned settings.


----------



## rothsss

jwcole1224 said:


> Has anyone had their set ISF calibrated since the last firmware update?
> 
> I had an ISF calibrator out today and my set could not be calibrated in ISF mode day/night.
> The greyscale above 50 would not calibrate correctly. Looked like a rainbow.
> 
> He was able to calibrate correctly in THX mode however and it looks great.
> 
> Any thoughts?


Kevin Miller calibrated my Elite after the firmware update in ISF mode day/night.


----------



## jwcole1224

rothsss said:


> Kevin Miller calibrated my Elite after the firmware update in ISF mode day/night.


While the calibrated THX mode looks wonderful, I'm disappointed that I couldn't get ISF mode calibrated.
I may end up returning the set.

The calibrator that worked on my set has done about 20 of the Elites and is highly regarded.
He consulted with Kevin Miller today by phone and we also contacted Elite support.

Maybe mine has gremlins.


----------



## lcaillo

jwcole1224 said:


> While the calibrated THX mode looks wonderful, I'm disappointed that I couldn't get ISF mode calibrated.
> I may end up returning the set.
> 
> The calibrator that worked on my set has done about 20 of the Elites and is highly regarded.
> He consulted with Kevin Miller today by phone and we also contacted Elite support.
> 
> Maybe mine has gremlins.


What, specifically, could not be calibrated to your satisfaction?


----------



## jwcole1224

lcaillo said:


> What, specifically, could not be calibrated to your satisfaction?


I'm not very technical when it comes to discussing calibration, but I will do my best.

When attempting to calibrate the grey scale at 60, 70, 80, 90 and 100 IRE, blue could not be brought into specification, it was something line 110% at 70. 
The -50 +50 adjustment could not bring it close to 100%, almost like it wasn't working. 
Red may have been a problem too, I just remember him pointing out the blue.

But, he had no problem calibrating THX mode.
Final averages were: Temp: 6514k Gamma: 2.2 DeltaC: 0.6

Thanks


----------



## JimP

Which bring up the question that if he could get THX mode calibrated correctly, why do you care about ISF mode?


----------



## mechman

JimP said:


> Which bring up the question that if he could get THX mode calibrated correctly, why do you care about ISF mode?


I know that I calibrate my displays for environmental factors - daylight, darkroom, room lighting. More than likely that is what the calibrator offered or was asked for.


----------



## Richard in SF

JimP said:


> Which bring up the question that if he could get THX mode calibrated correctly, why do you care about ISF mode?


My guy did both Day & Night, not THX, and I switch to Day in the daytime. To say that the Night setting looks dark & colorless in the daytime is an overstatement, but there is a significant difference. Conversely, the Day setting is 'too much' at night. As much as I hate to say it, I think that Sharp needs to repair or replace this set.


----------



## Radtech51

Richard in SF said:


> My guy did both Day & Night, not THX, and I switch to Day in the daytime. To say that the Night setting looks dark & colorless in the daytime is an overstatement, but there is a significant difference. Conversely, the Day setting is 'too much' at night. As much as I hate to say it, I think that Sharp needs to repair or replace this set.


lddude:Hi Richard, sorry to here you are having issues with your ISF picture modes. My only suggestion would be for whoever calibrated your ELITE to come back out to your place and retouch up your settings, (under your specific viewing conditions). It's also very important that you view actual material after the calibration to make sure you are happy. This sounds like something very easy to fix, Sharp has given you all of the power you will need to get a awesome looking picture trust me on that. :T


----------



## jwcole1224

Richard in SF said:


> My guy did both Day & Night, not THX, and I switch to Day in the daytime. To say that the Night setting looks dark & colorless in the daytime is an overstatement, but there is a significant difference. Conversely, the Day setting is 'too much' at night. As much as I hate to say it, I think that Sharp needs to repair or replace this set.


That's exactly what I was asking for.
I purchased this TV to be calibrated in day/night mode with static settings that could not be changed by the casual viewers of the set.

I'm not saying the picture isn't great, because it is. But there are times when I'd like a little brighter display during the day time. Of course I can mess with the settings, but I shouldn't have to.

My initial question was did the latest firmware break ISF calibration? By the responses here, it seems unlikely.
I still have 2 weeks in my return window, just trying to sort things out.

BTW, the calibrator is actively looking for answers as well. I will report back if I hear anything.

Thanks


----------



## Radtech51

jwcole1224 said:


> That's exactly what I was asking for.
> I purchased this TV to be calibrated in day/night mode with static settings that could not be changed by the casual viewers of the set.
> 
> I'm not saying the picture isn't great, because it is. But there are times when I'd like a little brighter display during the day time. Of course I can mess with the settings, but I shouldn't have to.
> 
> My initial question was did the latest firmware break ISF calibration? By the responses here, it seems unlikely.
> I still have 2 weeks in my return window, just trying to sort things out.
> 
> BTW, the calibrator is actively looking for answers as well. I will report back if I hear anything.
> 
> Thanks


I had my 70' ELITE calibrated before the latest firmware update addressing the pulsing issue. I can honestly say I see no difference in brightness like you did after the firmware update. I'm sorry to here you were affected but perhaps whoever calibrated your ELITE can adjust what sounds to me like a very quick adjustment? This is a great set as you already know and I think it's well worth the trouble. :sn:


----------



## rab-byte

Widamere said:


> Side note, how do you find a good calibrator....not the geek squad from Best Buy:nono:
> I live in L.A., San Fernando valley


I have to take issue with your statement. Im a calibrator with best buy and I do a very good job with calibrations. I take my time verify my results and don't leave until the picture is as good as it can be. Sometimes that take several hours sometimes not, depending on the equipment and display. I take my job very seriously and know many of us do.

I was one of the first people to write up a review of calibration on this display for this thread and have followed it just like I have followed calibration discussions on the VT and other displays. 

The company isn't the issues it's who you get to calibrate. I'm always happy to meet with prospective clients in the store, speak with them, answer questions and let them decide if they want me to do the calibration. 

And for what it's worth I haven't had any complaints or requests for me to fix issues or undo my calibrations.


----------



## Richard in SF

This is another example of the difficulties of communicating via text. (Hear that kids?) Radtech thought I was complaining, and JDub understood that I got exactly what I wanted.


----------



## jwcole1224

Radtech51 said:


> I had my 70' ELITE calibrated before the latest firmware update addressing the pulsing issue. I can honestly say I see no difference in brightness like you did after the firmware update. I'm sorry to here you were affected but perhaps whoever calibrated your ELITE can adjust what sounds to me like a very quick adjustment? This is a great set as you already know and I think it's well worth the trouble. :sn:


Thanks Radtech

I should have phrased my question differently.
I had my set calibrated after the latest firmware was installed.

The question should have been:
Did the latest firmware break the ability to calibrate the ISF modes?


----------



## Richard in SF

jwcole1224 said:


> Did the latest firmware break the ability to calibrate the ISF modes?


No. My ISF modes were done "post update".


----------



## DJG

I had no problems calibrating ISF or THX. I actually loaded the ISF setting equivalent of the Cnet settings for comparison with my own calibrations, and could tell nor difference between the ISF version and the THX version. That's very strange, that one mode would pose a problem of that magnitude but not the other mode, especially since both THX & ISF are geared toward the more "refined" movie experience.

Plus when you think about it, the modes are basically different software running the same hardware. What could cause this difference between sets? Curioser and curioser ...


----------



## jwcole1224

DJG said:


> I had no problems calibrating ISF or THX. I actually loaded the ISF setting equivalent of the Cnet settings for comparison with my own calibrations, and could tell nor difference between the ISF version and the THX version. That's very strange, that one mode would pose a problem of that magnitude but not the other mode, especially since both THX & ISF are geared toward the more "refined" movie experience.
> 
> Plus when you think about it, the modes are basically different software running the same hardware. What could cause this difference between sets? Curioser and curioser ...


Yes, it is interesting.

Can the ISF modes can be calibrated manually or do they require the use of ControlCal via RS232?

Thanks Again


----------



## rab-byte

jwcole1224 said:


> Yes, it is interesting.
> 
> Can the ISF modes can be calibrated manually or do they require the use of ControlCal via RS232?
> 
> Thanks Again


You can calibrate ISF manually on the elite TVs.


----------



## DJG

jwcole1224 said:


> Yes, it is interesting.
> 
> Can the ISF modes can be calibrated manually or do they require the use of ControlCal via RS232?
> 
> Thanks Again


You need something that can activate and control them. ControlCAL lets you do activate, change and save them in files, so you can retrieve different settings and send them to the Day or Night ISF setting. Calibration software like ChromaPure & CalMAN do it as part of the calibration process, but they are not as nimble in ad hoc changing & saving different sets of settings outside the calibration process.

I use CalMAN DIY with the Interactive plug-in and prefer using ControlCAL to manage the settings during calibration. And you can use ControlCAL via network connection too.


----------



## DJG

rab-byte said:


> You can calibrate ISF manually on the elite TVs.


If by manual you mean through the Elite menu, the answer is no. You can select the ISF modes once they're activated, but not alter them in the Elite menu. You need external software for that.


----------



## jwcole1224

DJG said:


> If by manual you mean through the Elite menu, the answer is no. You can select the ISF modes once they're activated, but not alter them in the Elite menu. You need external software for that.


My calibrator used the "service menu/mode" to manually access the ISF day/night modes.
I'm looking for a reason they could not be calibrated correctly. (see my previous posts)


----------



## DJG

jwcole1224 said:


> My calibrator used the "service menu/mode" to manually access the ISF day/night modes.
> I'm looking for a reason they could not be calibrated correctly. (see my previous posts)


Hmm, can you explain in more detail? Did he power-on the ELite into service mode and enter some secret code into the service menu to activate them? I'm not aware of this particular way of accessing ISF modes through the service menu.


----------



## jwcole1224

DJG said:


> Hmm, can you explain in more detail? Did he power-on the ELite into service mode and enter some secret code into the service menu to activate them? I'm not aware of this particular way of accessing ISF modes through the service menu.


Yes, he used a power on sequence, holding one of the buttons on the left while plugging in the set.
The details I don't know, but I did see a popup for an access code.


----------



## rab-byte

DJG said:


> If by manual you mean through the Elite menu, the answer is no. You can select the ISF modes once they're activated, but not alter them in the Elite menu. You need external software for that.




Yes you can, after a hard power cycle while holding a couple buttons you are given a prompt for a code. After you enter that you are given a GUI to calibrate day/night for each input. Calibration can be done via this menu. It allows for 11pt white and full cms as well as allowing adjustments of other features. 

You need only a meter attached to the screen and laptop and your pattern source sending signal to the display. All calibration functions can be done via the remote. 

Yes you can use automated programs to do this for you but it is not required. 

The only TVs I know of that require an IP or RS232 connection are the Panasonic VTs to unlock and adjust ISF modes.


----------



## DJG

Hmm, maybe therein lies the difference. I wonder if it's the use of the local ISF access that is causing the problem, because from what I've observed anyone using remote software to set the ISF calibration has been able to enter suitable settings.


----------



## rab-byte

Bottom line if you're not happy with the display post calibration you need him to come back out and check to see what is wrong.


----------



## jwcole1224

rab-byte said:


> Yes you can, after a hard power cycle while holding a couple buttons you are given a prompt for a code. After you enter that you are given a GUI to calibrate day/night for each input. Calibration can be done via this menu. It allows for 11pt white and full cms as well as allowing adjustments of other features.
> 
> You need only a meter attached to the screen and laptop and your pattern source sending signal to the display. All calibration functions can be done via the remote.
> 
> Yes you can use automated programs to do this for you but it is not required.
> 
> The only TVs I know of that require an IP or RS232 connection are the Panasonic VTs to unlock and adjust ISF modes.


I sent off an email with the description of the issue to Sharp Technical Assistance.
Hopefully I will hear back on Monday.

BTW, Even with the issue, I'm very pleased with my purchase.
I think the calibrator did a terrific job using the THX mode, the picture is great.

Interestingly, I entered the CNET settings initially and they were off by a mile as shown by the pre-calibration measurements. 

My thanks to all who have responded, you're a great group.


----------



## DJG

rab-byte said:


> Yes you can, after a hard power cycle while holding a couple buttons you are given a prompt for a code. After you enter that you are given a GUI to calibrate day/night for each input. Calibration can be done via this menu. It allows for 11pt white and full cms as well as allowing adjustments of other features.
> 
> You need only a meter attached to the screen and laptop and your pattern source sending signal to the display. All calibration functions can be done via the remote.
> 
> Yes you can use automated programs to do this for you but it is not required.
> 
> The only TVs I know of that require an IP or RS232 connection are the Panasonic VTs to unlock and adjust ISF modes.


True, but this ISF functionality is not available to everyone, whereas the software (which is not necessarily automatic) is.

Can you give us the service menu ISF button sequence and access code?

Thanks!


----------



## rab-byte

DJG said:


> True, but this ISF functionality is not available to everyone, whereas the software (which is not necessarily automatic) is.
> 
> Can you give us the service menu ISF button sequence and access code?
> 
> Thanks!


I'm not sure if my company wants me disclosing that info or for that matter if sharp or ISF wants that info released. I'm sorry but I'm sure there is another forum out there where you can find that info


----------



## DJG

rab-byte said:


> I'm not sure if my company wants me disclosing that info or for that matter if sharp or ISF wants that info released. I'm sorry but I'm sure there is another forum out there where you can find that info


Figured as much - you could tell us but you'd have to kill us. I stand by my statement, "we" can't activate / edit ISF mode directly on the Elite. Unless, that is. I can figure out where that other forum is  ...


----------



## Richard in SF

*Very interesting ISF situation/problem*

Short story: ISF modes only work on one input.

Long story: When my ISF calibration was done, my BluRay player sent Audio & Video thru a HDMI 1.3 (not 1.4) receiver. The ISF calibration was fine and looked good using Input 1. BUT, for 3D I could no longer use the receiver as a switch, and had to run a separate HDMI from the player to Input 2. My Tivo still uses Input 1. (There is a lot more going on in the sound department, but I'm going to limit this post to picture.) When I tried to change from ISF Day to Night while watching BD, I found that there were NO ISF settings available for Input 2.

I'm hoping that there is a 'quick & dirty' way to change the Elite so that all inputs use one set of ISF settings, or that there may be an easy way to copy those settings for extra inputs.

I haven't talked to my calibrator or Sharp Elite yet, but beware of this if your having a calibration done in the near future.


----------



## DJG

*Re: Very interesting ISF situation/problem*

You can use ControlCAL to do this kind of thing.


----------



## rab-byte

DJG said:


> You can use ControlCAL to do this kind of thing.


Yep the big advantage to control cal is being able to copy and past settings onto different inputs.


----------



## Richard in SF

I just called Elite, and 'they' said that the calibration should be for the whole set, not just one input. FWIW 

My calibrator has Controlcal, just not the Elite (or Sharp?) program for it yet.


----------



## DJG

Richard in SF said:


> I just called Elite, and 'they' said that the calibration should be for the whole set, not just one input. FWIW
> 
> My calibrator has Controlcal, just not the Elite (or Sharp?) program for it yet.


Should be, can be, but won't happen unless somebody copies them, and we want them that way :T


----------



## jwcole1224

My Calibration Story......Chapter 2

I heard back from Sharp today and they confirmed that my calibrator performed the correct work-flow.
They also confirmed that ISF calibration can be done manually via the service menu.

My calibrator called me this afternoon. He had consulted with his colleagues across the country and in their opinion, my set is defective.

So, I will return it.
Of course that puts me into the buying evaluation mode again, .....
Now, should I get a replacement Elite or wait for the VT50?

To be continued....


----------



## lcaillo

Richard in SF said:


> I just called Elite, and 'they' said that the calibration should be for the whole set, not just one input. FWIW
> 
> My calibrator has Controlcal, just not the Elite (or Sharp?) program for it yet.


So who is this calibrator that left you, his customer, with all of these questions and such a poor understanding of your system and not happpy with the outcome? The professional calibrators that I know go to great lengths to understand the user, his needs, his system, and his expectations and to assure that the user is well educated about what was done, what was possible, and is satisfied with the outcome. All of this should have been discussed in the plan for the calibration, up front.

It does not sound like you have a defective set to me, only that the calibrator did not calibrate the other inputs. It is very hard to imagine that he did and the memory is only intact for one input.

Sounds like you have a calibrator that did not have much experience with your set and did not do his homework ahead of time.


----------



## jwcole1224

lcaillo said:


> So who is this calibrator that left you, his customer, with all of these questions and such a poor understanding of your system and not happpy with the outcome? The professional calibrators that I know go to great lengths to understand the user, his needs, his system, and his expectations and to assure that the user is well educated about what was done, what was possible, and is satisfied with the outcome. All of this should have been discussed in the plan for the calibration, up front.
> 
> It does not sound like you have a defective set to me, only that the calibrator did not calibrate the other inputs. It is very hard to imagine that he did and the memory is only intact for one input.
> 
> Sounds like you have a calibrator that did not have much experience with your set and did not do his homework ahead of time.



My calibrator explained everything to me when he was working on my set.
I'm very happy with his professionalism and his attention to me, hisclient.
I've had a who's who of calibrators involved with.

Please don't mistake my personal drive to find an answer as a bad rap on the calibrator.
That's not the case, not at all.


----------



## lcaillo

If he left you with the set not performing as you would expect, he either did not know what he was doing, did not complete the job, or you have a defective set. He should have concluded the last on site IMO. My standards for calibration are high, but I would have been on the phone to the manufacturer and to other calibrators as soon as the set would not calibrate as expected.

There are hundreds of calibrators out there. Only a couple of handfuls of true pros. Those guys make it a point to study the doco and review procedures carefully with other pros before doing a set that they are not completely familiar with, particularly if they don't have the software to automate the job.

My bet, based upon the little that I have read here and about 30 years of experience tweaking, calibrating and repairing displays, is that the set is not defective.


----------



## jwcole1224

lcaillo said:


> If he left you with the set not performing as you would expect, he either did not know what he was doing, did not complete the job, or you have a defective set. He should have concluded the last on site IMO. My standards for calibration are high, but I would have been on the phone to the manufacturer and to other calibrators as soon as the set would not calibrate as expected.
> 
> There are hundreds of calibrators out there. Only a couple of handfuls of true pros. Those guys make it a point to study the doco and review procedures carefully with other pros before doing a set that they are not completely familiar with, particularly if they don't have the software to automate the job.
> 
> My bet, based upon the little that I have read here and about 30 years of experience tweaking, calibrating and repairing displays, is that the set is not defective.


The ISF modes could not be calibrated, greyscale would not come into specification.
I am thrilled with what he did with the THX movie mode, it's terrific.

You know it is possible that some type of defect is present.
That doesn't mean the Elite is a bad set.


----------



## lcaillo

Please post the measurements that represent the closest that he could get on the ISF modes as well as those for the THX mode. It seems unlikely that the set would not calibrate in one but would in the other. There is probably more to the story that relates to the calibration process. 

Anything is possible, and every brand and model has failures. For there to be a defect that allows this combination of error not reported on other sets is, in my experience, quite unlikely. It is much more likely that there is something amiss in the calibration. We have a saying in the repair business...when you hear hoof beats, look for horses, not zebras. Now if you gather data that proves Zebras, the next question is where did they come from. There is always an answer, though it is often not the one that one wants to hear.


----------



## Audiofiler

Can someone answer me the following question please?

What is the actual measurement from the the bottom of the display to the lower set of mount holes on the reverse side? (not including the stand)


----------



## DJG

You can get full dimensional specs here

Elite Downloads


----------



## Turbe

Richard in SF said:


> I just called Elite, and 'they' said that the calibration should be for the whole set, not just one input. FWIW


For the ISFccc Interface, it's two memories (isf Day and isf Night) per Input (by design)... Some Calibrators charge per Input, others include more or all the Inputs in their Fee... In the past, a few have charged per memory.



Richard in SF said:


> My calibrator has Controlcal, just not the Elite (or Sharp?) program for it yet.


I believe I know who your Calibrator is and we are in the process of getting ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2 added to his License. He will be able to do what you want with ControlCAL.

PM if you have any questions.


.


----------



## Audiofiler

DJG said:


> You can get full dimensional specs here
> 
> Elite Downloads


Thanks. I reviewed that document already.

Can someone please confirm the actual measurement from the the bottom of the display to the lower set of mount holes on the reverse side? (not including the stand)


----------



## jwcole1224

Audiofiler said:


> Thanks. I reviewed that document already.
> 
> Can someone please confirm the actual measurement from the the bottom of the display to the lower set of mount holes on the reverse side? (not including the stand)


Looks to be around 10 1/2" to the center of the bottom mounting hole.
This is for the 60".


----------



## Reactor

Audiofiler said:


> Can someone answer me the following question please?
> 
> What is the actual measurement from the the bottom of the display to the lower set of mount holes on the reverse side? (not including the stand)


Which model? From the dimensional drawings, I can determine:

display bottom to lower mount holes = (height from stand to midline) - (overall height - height without stand) - (spaces between holes - midline to upper holes)

Which gives me:

PRO-70X5FD: 298mm
PRO-60X5FD: 270mm


----------



## Audiofiler

I am looking for the measurements on the 70", thanks.

11.73" is about what I estimated as well^..

If anyone else has actually measured and can share their findings, that would be great as well.


----------



## veger69

Audiofiler said:


> I am looking for the measurements on the 70", thanks.
> 
> 11.73" is about what I estimated as well^..
> 
> If anyone else has actually measured and can share their findings, that would be great as well.


The centerline point is the center of the screen and not the center of the overall height 
I get 281mm or 11.06"
From the dimension sheet
Bahh lol should have used acad first had it sitting right in front of me. 298mm is correct


----------



## DJG

Turbe said:


> ...
> I believe I know who your Calibrator is and we are in the process of getting ControlCAL Elite X5 Edition v2 added to his License. He will be able to do what you want with ControlCAL.
> ...
> .


With Autoping? lease: :T


----------



## Theatredaz

*Gaming on Elite ~ Quick Review*

Well I just had a PS3 hooked up to my 60 inch Elite this weekend...I`m not going to say how jaw dropping it was...only because at 60 inches of screen...it shows how inferior gaming consoles are at creating a vivid detailed image on the screen on a large display...Call of Duty 3 was NO MATCH for such a superior display...optically watching the game on the screen was like going back to the 90`s and watching an Sega Genesis game with 64bit graphics...sort of disapointed that not even tesselation was able to bring the game to a consistent realism I would expect.

Aside for being disapointed about the poor quality of fine detail in a console game such as Call of duty 3...one thing did blow my mind...

...the TV behaves like a CRT monitor...I couldn`t believe it...all the jerking ... shifting...forward motion ... moving and jumping around in the game had no effect on the screen ...the display was ROCK SOLID!...I`ve waited for ever to get back into gaming...ever since my first LCD TV I have`t been able to get that rock solid image I got when I had my CRT TV...ghost Recon was the first game I tried on my first LCD TV and there was soo much ghosting and pixel blurring during motion or side shifting that it was unplayable...since then I`ve dropped games and sold all my consoles (xbox 360)...because it was rendered very poorly by the display and hard not to be distracted by all the slow image lag etc...

* Currently I`m putting together a HT Gaming system...that`s gonna push all console`s over the edge in terms of visual clarity and viewing depth...I`m never going back to consoles again...it`s such a waste to be using such cheap hardware on such an expensive and more important, elaborate Set.


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## Radtech51

Haven't tried any PS3 or X-Box yet but I did hook up my Macbook Pro to my 70'' ELITE and played some World of Warcraft, looked fantastic! What I need to do is pick up another ELITE and mount it on my office wall at home, 60'' would do nicely I think  That way I'm not fighting over viewing time for the 70'' in the front room lol. Anyway at the moment I'm using a 27'' Thunderbolt display in the office which looks ok, but after owning an ELITE all other displays look like junk! Pardon the expression. lol


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Kevin Miller will be calibrating my TV this weekend. I can't wait to see the results!


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## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Kevin Miller will be calibrating my TV this weekend. I can't wait to see the results!


Say Hi to Kevin for me when you see him, I'm loving the calibration he did on my ELITE as I'm sure you will to! :T


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## Widamere

Anyone wanna buy one of these


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## Robert Zohn

Spent the day w/Kevin Miller doing three beautiful calibrations, my personal JVC RS60 and Sharp's new XV-Z30000 projectors and another 70" Elite. Great day!!!!

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Kevin Miller will be calibrating my TV this weekend. I can't wait to see the results!


You'll be very happy Mike, Kevin always does a great job.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Kevin Miller calibrated my TV yesterday. I can't believe how much of a difference it was watching TV last night. The skin tones seem so natural now. I couldn't recommend him enough. I was watching the Knicks game last night and just saw the color on the jersey to know there was a difference. Before, the home jersey's lettering looked more red than orange. When I put it to ISF day/night it is orange. Great job! Fell in love with my tv all over again haha


----------



## treky11

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Kevin Miller calibrated my TV yesterday. I can't believe how much of a difference it was watching TV last night. The skin tones seem so natural now. I couldn't recommend him enough. I was watching the Knicks game last night and just saw the color on the jersey to know there was a difference. Before, the home jersey's lettering looked more red than orange. When I put it to ISF day/night it is orange. Great job! Fell in love with my tv all over again haha


Kevin will be doing mine in a few weeks as well. Can't wait.


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## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Spent the day w/Kevin Miller doing three beautiful calibrations, my personal JVC RS60 and Sharp's new XV-Z30000 projectors and another 70" Elite. Great day!!!!
> 
> -Robert


Wish I could have been there with you two! Kevin was just a total pleasure to talk with and of course Robert's an awesome guy to what can I say. :clap:


----------



## Kent Layton

Hello, everyone. This is my first post on this forum; I joined just because it seems to be the largest group discussion of the new Elite TVs that I can find online.

I've been through an absolute odyssey in attempting to upgrade my television. It started a few months back, when our Sharp 52" LED went on the fritz. We decided that it was time to upgrade. Since we had been very happy with that Sharp's picture, we decided to get the 831 60" Sharp. It was bad. So were two or three 835 60"; we also got a Samsung 60" LED that was bad. Each of these TV's had a different issue, and each time we had to drive an hour in each direction to get it (we live in the middle of nowhere, about an hour from any city with TV stores with broad selection). After that last Samsung, we decided to upgrade to the Elite 60". All of the previous TVs had been purchased at Best Buy, and we began to suspect that their sets were getting roughed up during shipment or behind-the-scenes. Having worked in retail, I've seen what can happen when unloading things from the pallets. So we found a real nice electronics store near the Best Buy, and picked up their last 60" Elite.

We were dumbfounded by the picture, but soon began to notice significant issues. For one thing, there was a light-colored halo around anything light on a dark background (highly visible when watching Star Trek content where a light comm badge is on a dark uniform, for example); also, when watching letterbox or 4:3 sources where black bars were on the sides or top and bottom, we began to notice that the black areas would light up and get dark, back-and-forth, when content on the screen changed. Also there was a lot of changing colors / lightening and darkening of background surfaces. We had to turn off all local dimming and processing (thus losing our deep blacks and bright brights) in order to correct the problem. Not exactly satisfying.

Then came the final straw with that first Elite: without any warning, the bottom half of the screen would fragment/pixelate any moving content. News channel scrolling headlines on DirecTV... Blu-ray content... anything - but only in the bottom half of the screen. It also did it to the TVs own menus when you would scroll through options, again, only in the bottom half of the screen. So it was happening on content produced by the TV, content from the DirecTV on one HDMI cable, and content off our Elite Blu-ray player on another HDMI cable. Source and cable made no difference.

The retailer, horrified, replaced the TV for us and said they would send it back to Elite. It meant another hour's drive in each direction, but we were all right with that to get the issue resolved.

We've had the new set for about a month now. We noticed many of the same persistent minor visual problems (halos, etc.) as the first one, but they did not seem as bad. And, of course, the bottom half of the screen didn't pixelate. So we settled in to enjoy the viewing experience as best we could.

Last night, the new set did _precisely_ the same thing as the last set, with the entire bottom half of the screen pixelating. Nothing new had changed ... no lightning storms, new equipment, jarring of the set, nothing. Then it did it again today. Not once in a month, and then twice in two days. The only way to fix it was to turn the set off and turn it back on. This TV is on a serious surge protector that is meant to protect high-end equipment. We just did the latest firmware update from the Elite site, and now the motion tracking seems to be off. We are at our wit's end trying to figure out what is going on. Can _anyone_ help us out, suggest what might be going wrong, etc.?


----------



## DJG

Hi Kent,

Sorry you had this bad experience. Sounds like a horror show! I have to say that with the current firmware revision, other than an ocassional slight flickering on larger flat surfaces, my set looks gorgeous (I calibrated it myself). I've never seen any hint of haloing or such - in fact for me that's a big differentiator from other local dimming sets.

It would help a lot if you told us your picture settings in detail (AV mode, IVC, backlight, contrast, etc.). And maybe the build date (it's on the box).

Edit: I thought maybe you might possibly be having ocassional power fluctuations? The surge protector won't fix those but a UPS would (needs to be the sine wave output type).


----------



## Kent Layton

DJP,

Thanks for the reply! Yes, we're on a total UPS setup (sorry for the incomplete description of our setup). If it wasn't for that, that would be my first thinking, too. Since we did the firmware update, I can see that it looks as if the flickering issues have improved - but then again, I haven't had the opportunity to watch too much on it yet. I'll definitely keep you guys posted on how it starts to shape up in that department (if, indeed, this TV stays).

My biggest concern right now is the fragmenting of the entire bottom half of the screen on this second set - the issue that forced the replacement of the first set. I've never heard of anything like that, and don't even know where to begin on what we might suspect the problem is... hardware? Power supply? Software? If it's the software, I would think the firmware update might take care of it, but then again, I don't think that this would be a software issue.

If it happens again, I'll let everyone know; in the meanwhile, any input and suggestions are more than welcome and greatly appreciated. Thanks, everyone!


----------



## DJG

Kent, that's the first I've heard of anything like that. If you got it in two sets, either it's a localized environment thing or some defect specific to maybe a build - what is your build date?


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> Kent, that's the first I've heard of anything like that. If you got it in two sets, either it's a localized environment thing or some defect specific to maybe a build - what is your build date?


lddude:I was thinking the same thing, also you might try swapping out the one you have with the Display model at Best Buy where you made the purchase. If anything like what you are experiencing was happening to their Display I'm sure they would have noticed it buy now. This would be a good way to prove that's it's something in your environment vs a defect in the unit.

PS: Also try to get a replacement with a different build date if possible, you could always try the 70'' to see if you have better luck. This is really the 1st. time I think anyone has herd anything like this happening to any ELITE. :rubeyes:


----------



## Kent Layton

DJG,

I actually have no idea what the build date is. Is that on the back of the unit with the model and serial numbers? I've placed it on a wall mount, so getting it out so I can see the sticker is not the easiest thing in the world, haha.

As far as it being an environmental issue, I can't see how it's possible. It is on a UPC, so its power supply is fully protected. There are no magnetic or other unusual interference sources anywhere near it, and none of our other electronic equipment (except the new Pioneer Elite Blu-ray player) are giving us even the smallest hint of trouble.

By the way, we are also very disappointed with the Elite Blu-ray player, as well; it has many, many technical quirks and issues: no sound at times, no picture at others. Each time this happens, it requires unplugging the unit's power cord and restarting it. Then there are the problems with its operation: put a disc in and hit play, and it closes and re-opens the tray. Hit the close button and it won't close. You name it, it's done it to us. However, when it does function correctly its picture and sound reproduction are second-to-none, so for now we are keeping it. We do know that the Blu-ray player is not the source of the visual disturbance on the lower half of this TV's screen, because it happens on all feeds through different HDMI cables and once it starts, the only way to fix it is to turn the TV off and turn it back on.

As far as Best Buy, we did not purchase this set there; we've given up on them completely after all the bad televisions they sold us and instead purchased our Elite TV through a small mom-and-pop shop just around the corner from the Best Buy. An hour's drive in each direction, however, is not my first choice.

After two days, the TV has not repeated its screen fragmentation / pixelation issue. But I have a sneaking suspicion it's just in hiding because I'm looking into the issue ... kind of like the car that has a problem until you bring it to the mechanic. I'll keep everyone here informed of further developments.

Thanks for your help!


----------



## DJG

Hi Kent, The build date is on the carton where the serial number is. Hopefully you still have it.

What other equipment is on the UPS? The fact that two top-drawer components are behaving that badly has me wondering, and these two are probably the type most likely to be affected by power weirdness.

Just to make sure, can you verify: the voltage output of the UPS when the weird stuff happens (TVs can be defective, so can a UPS!) and whether it's output is sine wave or square wave (you want sine wave for the Elite TV - it's sensitive to that aspect).

And you said the break up happens from the other components too (cable / satellite, whatever).

Assuming the UPS is OK, you must have had a streak of bad luck or leprechauns are running amuck!

Funny you mention the car behavior. I had that exact situation a few months ago. The check light came on and low-level performance was uneven. I ran the diagnostics which said I had a stuck manifold actuator. For three weeks I tried everything to "unstick" it, no joy. I ordered a new actuator. The day the new actuator arrived the check light went off and the engine has been normal again ever since.

Yeah, weird stuff alright .


----------



## Kent Layton

Unfortunately, we divested ourselves of the carton within a few days of the set's arrival. The voltage output on our UPS is a steady 122. It is sine-wave, and it conditions the incoming power, as well. We have eight pieces of high-end equipment connected, and we only have ever had problems with two: the TV, and the Blu-ray player. Both are Elite-brand items, leading me to suspect the worst of the brand's build quality. We've had several different blu-ray units of various brands attached to the system in the past few years, and never had the slightest trouble with them.

Also, the problem with the DirecTV viewing is a symptom of TV trouble, not the DirecTV itself. If you turn off the TV and turn it back on (without touching the DirecTV box), it comes back every time. It also happens on the TV's main menus, which are generated within the TV itself, not from an external source like the Blu-ray player or DirecTV box. So whatever is wrong happens within the set itself.

Next time this happens, I will be calling my retailer and Elite Customer Service, I think. Assuming the 'check engine light' comes on again, LOL! Thanks!


----------



## DJG

Yep, a streak of bad luck (or leprechauns - can't trust those critters!).

Remember that the TV is made by Sharp, and the BD by Pioneer (whose mayor stock holder ha[ppens to be Sharp, which is why they were able to work out using the Elite name ), but two different manufacturers never the less. But it's freaky that both are out in such a weird way. This didn't start onm April 1 by any chance? 

I'm sorry you're having all these problems - hopefully they'll get resolved, because my Elite TV is putting out a gorgeous picture and you should have at least the same. Even DirecTV HD makes me say Wow! now and then.

Hang in there!


----------



## Ken Ross

I'd agree with those commenting on Kent's set. Of the many owners posting, I've never seen anyone mention this pixelization. Given that he has had it on two sets, I'd agree that there's something going on in his setup. Add to that the odd issues with a solid unit like the Elite BD player. Very odd.


----------



## mechman

Kent - is everything run through an avr? Or are these sources run directly to the display? Is it happening on all of the inputs?


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> I'd agree with those commenting on Kent's set. Of the many owners posting, I've never seen anyone mention this pixelization. Given that he has had it on two sets, I'd agree that there's something going on in his setup. Add to that the odd issues with a solid unit like the Elite BD player. Very odd.


I also have the Elite BD player and I've never experienced the problems he is talking about, very strange. :rubeyes:


----------



## Kent Layton

Mechman,

Hello! We have a rather high-end HDMI connecting the blu-ray output to our Yamaha 3-D receiver, and a matching cable coming out of the receiver up to the TV. Our DirecTV box feeds directly up to the TV on a different HDMI cable completely. But it doesn't matter what feed we are watching; once this issue starts on the TV, the only way to fix it is to turn the set off and on. The fact that it also does it with the set's internally-generated menu screens also indicates a TV-based issue rather than one starting elsewhere and coming in through multiple HDMI sources.

As far as the BD player's problems, that is a separate issue.

The most annoying daily-watching grievance I have with this Elite TV is the flickering contrast. I turned on the auto contrast because it really makes the picture look better. However, during scene changes, the split-second delayed flicker is truly annoying to the eye. It also makes me wonder, with the local dimming on, why the black areas of the screen in a letterbox or 4:3 "full screen" source still flicker, with increasing and decreasing levels of blackness depending on how bright the content is _within_ the picture. It would be a whole lot more logical if the engineers just told those portions of the screen to stay "off", or black, since the frame edges never move. And, last time I tried to watch the night-time steamboat scene in "Cowboys and Aliens", I actually had to pause the movie and turn off the auto contrast because it was unwatchable with it on.

_Sigh._

I am certain that this set has problems, since in addition to the pixelation, very few people could stare at this set's vascilating contrast and halo-glowing issues and be convinced it's one of the best out there. It's GOT to be a second bum unit. Only I could get two of these in a row with issues, lol.

Thanks for the help!


----------



## Kent Layton

Oh, and by the way, before I forget, we're on our third of te Elite BD players. Each has had identical issues. We started at the base model and moved up to the 53FD. However, we have never had any problems with any of our other Blu-ray players, sound equipment or DVD players, all plugged into the same power supply and connected to the same receiver. Not impressed with this foray into the Elite brand name.


----------



## DJG

Kent, there's definitely something very much awry with the TV. I have absolutely no haloing (nor do other users based on forum chatter & reports) and the flickering is now minimal. I have never seen or heard (until now) about the image breaking up.

I will say I'm not a fan of the active contrast other than the Local Dimming setting, and I have calibrated my set which gave me an even better looking image with superb blacks, deep shadow detail and great looking skin tones.

I would call Sharp and have them replace it, as it is obviously defective if the environment is not at fault.


----------



## dsskid

Kent Layton said:


> Mechman,
> 
> Hello! We have a rather high-end HDMI connecting the blu-ray output to our Yamaha 3-D receiver, and a matching cable coming out of the receiver up to the TV. Our DirecTV box feeds directly up to the TV on a different HDMI cable completely. But it doesn't matter what feed we are watching; once this issue starts on the TV, the only way to fix it is to turn the set off and on. The fact that it also does it with the set's internally-generated menu screens also indicates a TV-based issue rather than one starting elsewhere and coming in through multiple HDMI sources.
> 
> As far as the BD player's problems, that is a separate issue.
> 
> The most annoying daily-watching grievance I have with this Elite TV is the flickering contrast. I turned on the auto contrast because it really makes the picture look better. However, during scene changes, the split-second delayed flicker is truly annoying to the eye. It also makes me wonder, with the local dimming on, why the black areas of the screen in a letterbox or 4:3 "full screen" source still flicker, with increasing and decreasing levels of blackness depending on how bright the content is _within_ the picture. It would be a whole lot more logical if the engineers just told those portions of the screen to stay "off", or black, since the frame edges never move. And, last time I tried to watch the night-time steamboat scene in "Cowboys and Aliens", I actually had to pause the movie and turn off the auto contrast because it was unwatchable with it on.
> 
> _Sigh._
> 
> I am certain that this set has problems, since in addition to the pixelation, very few people could stare at this set's vascilating contrast and halo-glowing issues and be convinced it's one of the best out there. It's GOT to be a second bum unit. Only I could get two of these in a row with issues, lol.
> 
> Thanks for the help!


Anyway to bypass the receiver to eliminate the possibility of it being the receiver?


----------



## Radtech51

Kent Layton said:


> Oh, and by the way, before I forget, we're on our third of te Elite BD players. Each has had identical issues. We started at the base model and moved up to the 53FD. However, we have never had any problems with any of our other Blu-ray players, sound equipment or DVD players, all plugged into the same power supply and connected to the same receiver. Not impressed with this foray into the Elite brand name.


I have my ELITE BD Player running through my ELITE Receiver and out to my 70'' ELITE. I've never experienced any issues so far and everything works together perfect! I'm however very saddened to here that you are not having a similar experience, all I can suggest is to keep digging you will eventually find some answers I'm sure. :blink:


----------



## Kent Layton

Although it certainly wouldn't solve the issue where the bottom half of the screen pixelates (since that happens even on feeds that don't wash through the receiver), I might try testing the picture (contrast issues, etc.) by removing the receiver from the loop just for testing purposes. It probably wouldn't be ridiculously hard to do. Interesting proposal. I'll see if I can test it soon and see if that helps the picture in general. Great idea ... why didn't I think of that? :dontknow:


----------



## Radtech51

'The Hobbit' 48FPS Footage Divides Audiences At CinemaCon.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...s_n_1452391.html?ref=technology&ir=Technology

"The footage I saw looked terrible … completely non-cinematic. The sets looked like sets … sets don’t even look like sets when you’re on them live, but these looked like sets. The magical illusion of cinema is stripped away completely.”

lddude:I can't help but wonder what some of the Videophiles think of this 48FPS change? 

PS: Just daydreaming here and wondering how it will look on my ELITE running in 48FPS? Hum... I'm not a big fan of the soap ophera motion effect. :gulp:


----------



## mjw

Kent Layton said:


> Then came the final straw with that first Elite: without any warning, the bottom half of the screen would fragment/pixelate any moving content. end trying to figure out what is going on. Can _anyone_ help us out, suggest what might be going wrong, etc.?


During the motion tests on day 2 of the 2011 shootout I saw a similar thing happen to the sharp elite. The breaking up of the picture was also on the lower part of the screen. I pointed it out to Kevin miller and he said that he thought it was probably caused by a HDMI handshaking issue. But in your case you have had the same problem on 2 separate elites even after testing with different sources and hdmi cables, so I doubt it is caused by hdmi handshaking. How long is your cable?


----------



## mechman

Kent Layton said:


> Oh, and by the way, before I forget, we're on our third of te Elite BD players. Each has had identical issues. We started at the base model and moved up to the 53FD. However, we have never had any problems with any of our other Blu-ray players, sound equipment or DVD players, all plugged into the same power supply and connected to the same receiver. Not impressed with this foray into the Elite brand name.


Well, the solution is laid out in front of you. Stay away from the Elite products and be happy. :T

And buy a lottery ticket because to have the same problem on two different displays and three different blu-ray players... you truly are one in a million. :T

If you want to keep troubleshooting though, I'd do as John stated - take the avr out of the equation. Then I would look into the cables. Change out the HDMI cables. No need to spend a lot of money on them, just get some from Monoprice. Take the surge protector out of the equation as well. It's kind of like troubleshooting a bad component in a computer - take everything out and add one by one.

I really don't think that you would end up with 5 different Elite products that ended up all bad. I think it's something else.

Then again, you could very well be the most unluckiest person on the planet. :huh:


----------



## Kent Layton

Mark,

You saw it, too? You mean I'm not the only one?! Oh, good, I'm not losing my mind yet!

The first time I noticed the issue on the first set was while I was watching _The Mask of Zorro_. There's a seen when they're chasing Zorro through the courtyard with the round table, wall map, and floor-length curtain, and as the camera panned left to right to follow the motion, the curtain dissolved into a wash of fragmented pixels. It took about .5 seconds to come and go, but it was so glaring that I rewound and watched it over and over again, and it did it consistently each time.

What I'm wondering ... is that problem related to the problem where _the entire bottom half of the screen_ goes berserk and needs to be re-started? Hmmmmmm... [Drumming fingers on table.]

Cable length: Let me see ... I'm running a 3-ft cable from the BD player to the receiver, and then a 6-ft out of the receiver and up to the TV. I have not yet had the chance to run the line directly up to the TV from the BD player to test the picture quality, active contrast response, etc. But I am definitely going to be doing so ASAP.

This conversation is really starting to get interesting. Thanks for the input and suggestions, everyone!


----------



## Kent Layton

Mechman,

We have problems with just about everything we buy, it's nothing new. Based on painful experience, I have come to the conclusion that with 100 of the same thing, and 3 of them bum in the batch, we could pull one of the bum ones on the first try. And then, after returning it, we pick the second and third ones in the batch as replacements.

It's really quite simple: we want things to work. Doesn't seem that difficult, does it? LOL! 

Thanks again, everyone!


----------



## rab-byte

Ken you have very bad luck. 

Did you have the pixilation issues with the non-elite TVs also? Or just general PQ issues with the others?

In just going to echo everyone else here at first it sounded like an HDMI or power issue. If you've eliminated both possibilities then I just don't know what to say... How much of the bottom of the screen are you seeing these issue on? It almost sounds like an overscan issue if not for seeing it in the menu??? Odd


----------



## JClam

Guys, I'm watching the Rangers game 7 on my 70", MSG HD on DirecTV and the picture is fabulous, no issues with motion, colors spot on. 

Get some...
Clam


----------



## DJG

Radtech51 said:


> 'The Hobbit' 48FPS Footage Divides Audiences At CinemaCon.
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...s_n_1452391.html?ref=technology&ir=Technology
> 
> "The footage I saw looked terrible … completely non-cinematic. The sets looked like sets … sets don’t even look like sets when you’re on them live, but these looked like sets. The magical illusion of cinema is stripped away completely.”
> 
> lddude:I can't help but wonder what some of the Videophiles think of this 48FPS change?
> 
> PS: Just daydreaming here and wondering how it will look on my ELITE running in 48FPS? Hum... I'm not a big fan of the soap ophera motion effect. :gulp:


If it was filmed at 48fps then there shouldn't be any soap opera effect, which comes from the interpolation used to artificially (?!) create the extra frames.


----------



## DJG

Kent Layton said:


> Mechman,
> 
> We have problems with just about everything we buy, it's nothing new. Based on painful experience, I have come to the conclusion that with 100 of the same thing, and 3 of them bum in the batch, we could pull one of the bum ones on the first try. And then, after returning it, we pick the second and third ones in the batch as replacements.
> 
> It's really quite simple: we want things to work. Doesn't seem that difficult, does it? LOL!
> 
> Thanks again, everyone!


I keep telling you, it's those danged leprechauns  :gulp:!


----------



## Ken Ross

Kent, it sounds VERY much like an HDMI handshake issue. The fact that you can turn the set off and then on and re-establish a good picture, seems to point to that handshake issue. I really doubt this has anything to do with the Elite. Add to that the fact that not one owner is reporting this issue and you have it on two sets...well, it strains the credibility that it could be two uniquely defective sets. 

I'd try removing your receiver from the equation and hook up your sources directly to the Elite. On another note I'd only use LD on and avoid any of the advanced IVC settings. Most ISF calibrators would not use the advanced settings, only 'LD on'.


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> If it was filmed at 48fps then there shouldn't be any soap opera effect, which comes from the interpolation used to artificially (?!) create the extra frames.


That was my thought as well however that's not what the majority of the select group of reviewers thought when they got that private 10 minute viewing of the movie. But I agree with you and I'm somewhat confused over there reactions, I can't wait and see it for myself. :rubeyes:

PS: Sorry if we are getting off topic here, we can resume when we get a chance to view it on our ELITE! Much better then going to see it in the movies if you ask me.


----------



## cdiez58

DJG said:


> If it was filmed at 48fps then there shouldn't be any soap opera effect, which comes from the interpolation used to artificially (?!) create the extra frames.


Actually it's not just from the interpolation but also from the lack of natural background blur...when looking at a 2d image ( on a single plane) with everything sharp it looks artificial ....that the SOE...

Actually film shot at 24fps has two additional copy frames inserted into the projected version to remove judder...but those copy frames have the background blur as seen by the camera...so no problem...I'd have to see the 10 minute short to see how it looks to me...lots of things in play here...it also could have digital projection processing to blame....by that I mean over processed.


----------



## cdiez58

cdiez58 said:


> Actually it's not just from the interpolation but also from the lack of natural background blur...when looking at a 2d image ( on a single plane) with everything sharp it looks artificial ....that the SOE...
> 
> Actually film shot at 24fps has two additional copy frames inserted into the projected version to remove judder...but those copy frames have the background blur as seen by the camera...so no problem...I'd have to see the 10 minute short to see how it looks to me...lots of things in play here...it also could have digital projection processing to blame....by that I mean over processed.


Meant to add that electronic interpolation removes some of the natural background blur that helps the picture look natural


----------



## Kent Layton

Ken,

The problem exists across three different HDMI cables with two on one input (one from the BD to the receiver, and another from the receiver to the TV), and a separate cable on another direct feed that is not split by the receiver. The issue even affects the input that is not split by the receiver, as well as the television's internally-generated menus. It is not an HDMI handshake issue.

However, what I _do_ find interesting is that it hasn't had the more significant problem (where the whole bottom half of the screen fragments) since I did the firmware updates. That doesn't mean it won't happen again, but so far it has not - hopefully this is the explanation, but we'll see.

As far as the halos, flickering backgrounds, and darkening-lightening black areas outside the picture frames, I connected the BD to the TV direct (and with a completely different HDMI cable), and it happened still. Clearly the issue has nothing to do with the receiver.


----------



## DJG

Kent, the flickering I understand, although you seem to have a very pronounced version. But I get absolutely no haloing. And I'm not sure what you mean by the "darkening-lightening black areas outside the picture frames". Are you refering to the black bars left & right of a 4:3 program or top & bottom of a 22:9 program? That would be totally weird. Mine are black & solid.


----------



## Kent Layton

DJG,

Hello! Yup, that's exactly what I'm referring to. On the left and right sides of a 4:3 image, or in the areas above and below a widescreen film that doesn't fill the screen, in the black areas outside the filmed content the black levels increase and decrease back and forth constantly depending on how bright the area within the film-area is. It's astonishingly annoying, especially with the lights off in the room. There is also 'ghosting' outside those film boundaries when there's something very bright on the edge of the film. It's as if the 'local dimming' feature isn't as 'local' as it should be, haha!


----------



## DJG

Man, that is totally weird. When you add it all up, it really sounds like something is just wreaking havoc with the overall picture signal.

You don't happen to live near a nuclear plant or over an ancient Indian burial site by any chance :yikes:?

I really feel for you!


----------



## mechman

Are they all the same brand of HDMI cable?


----------



## jmschnur

Kent Layton said:


> DJG,
> 
> Hello! Yup, that's exactly what I'm referring to. On the left and right sides of a 4:3 image, or in the areas above and below a widescreen film that doesn't fill the screen, in the black areas outside the filmed content the black levels increase and decrease back and forth constantly depending on how bright the area within the film-area is. It's astonishingly annoying, especially with the lights off in the room. There is also 'ghosting' outside those film boundaries when there's something very bright on the edge of the film. It's as if the 'local dimming' feature isn't as 'local' as it should be, haha!


Have you tried off the air broad casting ?


----------



## Kent Layton

Hello! Re. brand: The two that we have working from the BD to the receiver, and then from the receiver to the TV are the same exact cable, only one is longer than the other. They are very nice "Cinnamon" cables purchased at Best Buy. The other cable, which runs from the DirecTV box straight up to the TV, is a nice (but not super-expensive) cable purchased at Radio Shack of a completely different brand. The cable that I used yesterday to connect the BD direct to the TV was a super-cheap basic HDMI cable of a third brand completely.

Re: off the air, we only have DirecTV, as we live in the country, in a low area of land, and can not pick up any broadcasts.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJG said:


> Man, that is totally weird. When you add it all up, it really sounds like something is just wreaking havoc with the overall picture signal.
> 
> You don't happen to live near a nuclear plant or over an ancient Indian burial site by any chance :yikes:?
> 
> I really feel for you!


+1
that is some really weird stuff going on there. That stinks! But I honestly don't think it's the tv either. I just dont see two different sets displaying the same exact issues, that no one else has reported at all? Black bars fluctuating, and halos? I hope you figure this out....


----------



## cdiez58

Kent Layton said:


> Hello! Re. brand: The two that we have working from the BD to the receiver, and then from the receiver to the TV are the same exact cable, only one is longer than the other. They are very nice "Cinnamon" cables purchased at Best Buy. The other cable, which runs from the DirecTV box straight up to the TV, is a nice (but not super-expensive) cable purchased at Radio Shack of a completely different brand. The cable that I used yesterday to connect the BD direct to the TV was a super-cheap basic HDMI cable of a third brand completely.
> 
> Re: off the air, we only have DirecTV, as we live in the country, in a low area of land, and can not pick up any broadcasts.


I sure this has been talked about but want to make sure...your elite is the the "stretch" mode correct....not "dot by dot"...sounds like overscan to me...my set has to be in stretch to hide the overscan on most DTV content..


----------



## jmschnur

Kent Layton said:


> Hello! Re. brand: The two that we have working from the BD to the receiver, and then from the receiver to the TV are the same exact cable, only one is longer than the other. They are very nice "Cinnamon" cables purchased at Best Buy. The other cable, which runs from the DirecTV box straight up to the TV, is a nice (but not super-expensive) cable purchased at Radio Shack of a completely different brand. The cable that I used yesterday to connect the BD direct to the TV was a super-cheap basic HDMI cable of a third brand completely.
> 
> Re: off the air, we only have DirecTV, as we live in the country, in a low area of land, and can not pick up any broadcasts.


Might be worthwhile to restore all defaults and use the thx setting for a while.


----------



## DJG

cdiez58 said:


> I sure this has been talked about but want to make sure...your elite is the the "stretch" mode correct....not "dot by dot"...sounds like overscan to me...my set has to be in stretch to hide the overscan on most DTV content..


I use dot mode to see the full image. The overscan only shows in some SD stuff, which I rarely watch. With stretch mode you lose some of the HD image. IOW, 1080P becomes more like 980P.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJG said:


> Man, that is totally weird. When you add it all up, it really sounds like something is just wreaking havoc with the overall picture signal.
> 
> You don't happen to live near a nuclear plant or over an ancient Indian burial site by any chance :yikes:?
> 
> I really feel for you!


What's absolutely stunning is that not only is he having issues that no other owner has reported, but he's had it on two samples! It's still hard for me to believe that it isn't something in his setup. Incredibly weird.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Ken Ross said:


> What's absolutely stunning is that not only is he having issues that no other owner has reported, but he's had it on two samples! It's still hard for me to believe that it isn't something in his setup. Incredibly weird.


+1


----------



## DJG

I was home from work sick, and after reading again how some people got rid of the pulsing by using the IVC Advanced Low instead of the Local Dimming setting, I decided to do some experimentation in between sneezes and nose blows <achoo!>.

Normally I turn every "add-on" off, especially those mucking with contrast and brightness. I did my own ISF setting calibration (several times!) and now have a picture I love, except for the occasional pulsing. If I can get rid of that, heaven on TV!

I just spent several hours mucking with it. Bottom line, success! Not 100% gone, but definitely 90% from the mitigated 2.17 pulsing. But it was tough work - the goal was to get the same image I have in ISF with LD, but no pulsing. Because ISF settings are done with IVC off (including LD) it was a drawn out process of trial and error: enable calibrating, make an adjustment, save and turn off calibration, run a few tests to see the effect under various condition, take note & repeat. I used the DVE HD Basics BD for patterns and demos, which is great for everything from blacks, shadows, contrast & highlights to skin tones and such.

What I found at first is that cutting the contrast down is not enough to get the my LD-tailored calibrated picture under IVC Adv Low (from now on I'll refer to it as IVC). Switching to IVC not only gets you that horrible (to me!) super-bright contrast, but raises the black level very noticeably. In the end I had to muck with the contrast, brightness, backlight and gamma settings.

The following changes give me a very, very close approximation of my LD image. Not exact but close enough you won't notice unless you're doing a serious A/B comparison in a totally dark room, and I think I like it better! Sure maybe I'm compensating, but I like it!

The black level is a smidgeon higher in the IVC setting, but nothing I really care about. The white level is somewhat brighter but with no loss of contrast in the highlights, and I see that as a plus as I was adapting to a dimmer image to get the best blacks using a relatively low backlight (30 to the 50 normal setting in ISF mode which use 0-100 rather than the -16 to +16 of the THX mode). The RGB levels at the highlight end, which I could never really get to be even (red was always somewhat more crushed than green or blue, with blue the higher level visible), was just about even for all three several levels above white! I'm still scratching my head on that one - you the figure brighter image would have more crushed highlights.

Anyway, in ISF setting range, these were the changes. The 10-point WB & CMS were untouched. With original LD setting first and new IVC setting following, ISF range at the right - LD / IVC (ISF range):

Contrast: 80 / 70 (0 to 85, 80 default).
Brightness: 1 / -2 (-50 to +50, 0 default)
Backlight: 30 / 12 (0 to 100, 50 default)
Gamma: 2 / 12 (-20 to +20, 0 default)

Pretty much same awesome picture, just about 0 pulsing, and that little I notice probably only because I've been hyper-sensitized .

Sorry for the long diatribe! I'll update after a bunch of viewing.


----------



## Audiofiler

^ I have seen comments from several owners that have had an ISF calibration done on their sets confirm no pulsing whatsoever in the Cal modes thereafter.

If this is true, I am wondering if this route may be a viable option for you down the road.


----------



## DJG

^ As the post mentions, this is an ISF mode calibration.


----------



## Audiofiler

DJG said:


> ^ As the post mentions, this is an ISF mode calibration.


I saw ISF mentioned a few times but was not sure. Since I saw a few other posts mentioning the pulsing was virtually non-existent with 2.17 few and a professional calibration, I thought that may help with his set..


----------



## DJG

It's very situation-specific. Ken Ross doesn't see it in THX or ISF, but I do. It was reduced very noticeably with 2.17. But the calibration doesn't affect it all that much, unless you reduce the contrast drastically (and detrementally) and even then it's a minor reduction. It has to do with the algorithms that control the local dimming zones. Apparently the IVC Low math controls the pulsing effect much better than the straight-up Local Dimming, but you have to jump through s few hoops to not get the intended bright, high-contrast look of the IVC Low setting.


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> It's very situation-specific. Ken Ross doesn't see it in THX or ISF, but I do. It was reduced very noticeably with 2.17. But the calibration doesn't affect it all that much, unless you reduce the contrast drastically (and detrementally) and even then it's a minor reduction. It has to do with the algorithms that control the local dimming zones. Apparently the IVC Low math controls the pulsing effect much better than the straight-up Local Dimming, but you have to jump through s few hoops to not get the intended bright, high-contrast look of the IVC Low setting.


lddude:If you like I can check it out on my ELITE, give me a specific movie clip where is shows up good and I'll check it. ISF Night is with Local Dimming on and ISF Day is with IVC set to Low, THX mode was also calibrated so I can check that out as well.


----------



## DJG

Cool! I have the exact same configuration - ISF Night with LD and ISF Day with IVC Low . Let me find a good source in my BD collection but I'll also keep an eye on DirecTV for a suitable scene.


----------



## DJG

OK, Horrible Bosses is playing on HBO2 East HD and it took a while but I found some. At about 31 minutes into the movie, there's a scene where four dudes are inside an apartment room, which then transitions to an outside aerial night landscape scene of the city with dark clouds at the top for just a few seconds, then to a car going up a highway scene. That brief city landscape scene has some flickering with LD on, none with LD off, or with my IVC Low ISF Day setting. You can catch it on HBO2 West HD which starts at 9:15 ...


----------



## DJG

Another better instance in the same Horrible Bosses, about 45 minutes into the movie three guys drive up near a house then walk to the driveway. The garage door opens and a car runs out surprising them. They make a leap for the garage before it closes but one guy doesn't make it and slams into the door. He stands up and knocks on the door to get the guys to open it. That scene where he hits the door, picks himself up and then knocks on the garage door, the garage door does some flickering with LD, but not with IVC off or with IVC Low.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJG said:


> Another better instance in the same Horrible Bosses, about 45 minutes into the movie three guys drive up near a house then walk to the driveway. The garage door opens and a car runs out surprising them. They make a leap for the garage before it closes but one guy doesn't make it and slams into the door. He stands up and knocks on the door to get the guys to open it. That scene where he hits the door, picks himself up and then knocks on the garage door, the garage door does some flickering with LD, but not with IVC off or with IVC Low.


I have the bluray, and it does the same flickering in those scenes btw.... With LD on, on my set anyway. Ive been spoiled by IVC low for some time now.


----------



## DJG

That's good concensus then, those scenes you get the flickering with LD on but not with IVC Low. Anybody else? This looks like it could be a good alternative.

To those who (like I did before) shudder at the thought of the overtly-contrasty IVC Low setting, you can do as I did and tame it to ISF levels using (somewhat drastic) settings for Contrast, Brightness, Backlight and Gamma.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Question for ISF calibrated Elite owners...

I'm watching the NY Rangers hockey game yesterday on ISF Day mode. The ice is yellow tinted. As a clear reference, it should be clearly white unless someone peed on it. Haha Have you noticed the same? I'm forced to watch it on something more natural and I feel pushed to watch it on User mode just cause the color is just not right.


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> Another better instance in the same Horrible Bosses, about 45 minutes into the movie three guys drive up near a house then walk to the driveway. The garage door opens and a car runs out surprising them. They make a leap for the garage before it closes but one guy doesn't make it and slams into the door. He stands up and knocks on the door to get the guys to open it. That scene where he hits the door, picks himself up and then knocks on the garage door, the garage door does some flickering with LD, but not with IVC off or with IVC Low.


I think I have that movie recorded on my DVR, I'll check it out and get back to you.


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Question for ISF calibrated Elite owners...
> 
> I'm watching the NY Rangers hockey game yesterday on ISF Day mode. The ice is yellow tinted. As a clear reference, it should be clearly white unless someone peed on it. Haha Have you noticed the same? I'm forced to watch it on something more natural and I feel pushed to watch it on User mode just cause the color is just not right.


I don't watch a lot of hockey but from what I've seen so far it looks perfect and I don't see any yellow tint to the ice. I'll keep checking and let you know if I see anything different. :rubeyes:


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Question for ISF calibrated Elite owners...
> 
> I'm watching the NY Rangers hockey game yesterday on ISF Day mode. The ice is yellow tinted. As a clear reference, it should be clearly white unless someone peed on it. Haha Have you noticed the same? I'm forced to watch it on something more natural and I feel pushed to watch it on User mode just cause the color is just not right.


Like Rad, I haven't noticed any yellowish tinge on hockey games, although I didn't watch the game you referenced. If what you saw was an anomaly with whites on your set in ISF mode, I'd dismiss it as just that broadcast.


----------



## DJG

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Question for ISF calibrated Elite owners...
> 
> I'm watching the NY Rangers hockey game yesterday on ISF Day mode. The ice is yellow tinted. As a clear reference, it should be clearly white unless someone peed on it. Haha Have you noticed the same? I'm forced to watch it on something more natural and I feel pushed to watch it on User mode just cause the color is just not right.


I don't normally watch hockey, but let me know in advance next game you'll watch and I'll check it out. For reference, my whites always check out as white, i.e. snowy ranges, other situations with ice and such.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Check out the next ranger game... I think it's tonight.. I checked out the Devils game last night and it was ok. Who knows? I'm not a big hockey fan either, but have been watching it lately cause my Knicks and Yankees are hopeless especially with Mariano going down...

BTW, who's going to the VE shootout? I'm going on Saturday, May 19.


----------



## dsskid

I'll be there.


----------



## mechman

I watch a lot of hockey and a lot of the things that I see are usually broadcast issues. I'll check it out tonight DJ.

One of my biggest pet peeves for the local hockey broadcasts is their constant failure to white balance the cameras properly. Drives me nuts. :dumbcrazy:


----------



## rab-byte

mechman said:


> I watch a lot of hockey and a lot of the things that I see are usually broadcast issues. I'll check it out tonight DJ.
> 
> One of my biggest pet peeves for the local hockey broadcasts is their constant failure to white balance the cameras properly. Drives me nuts. :dumbcrazy:


It's funny you mention that. Whenever I calibrate a display I give my clients a general disclaimer that even though the display is accurate the content may not be (directors creative license, auto setting turned on the camera, etc...) I often equate it to a game of telephone where each step in the path gets a little tweak.


----------



## DJG

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Check out the next ranger game... I think it's tonight.. I checked out the Devils game last night and it was ok. Who knows? I'm not a big hockey fan either, but have been watching it lately cause my Knicks and Yankees are hopeless especially with Mariano going down...
> 
> BTW, who's going to the VE shootout? I'm going on Saturday, May 19.


I'll be there Sunday. I just hope my EZ-Pass still works ...

What channel are the Ranger games on? ESPN?


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> I'll be there.


I'd of course love to go but living in southern CA means I'd have to fly there and then rent a hotel, it's just not in the budget this year sadley. :crying:


----------



## DJG

Radtech51 said:


> I'd of course love to go but living in southern CA means I'd have to fly there and then rent a hotel, it's just not in the budget this year sadley. :crying:


You don't have to rent the whole hotel, you could just get one room  !

Couldn't resist ...


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> You don't have to rent the whole hotel, you could just get one room  !
> 
> Couldn't resist ...


Nice, Very funny my friend! :bigsmile:


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Check out the next ranger game... I think it's tonight.. I checked out the Devils game last night and it was ok. Who knows? I'm not a big hockey fan either, but have been watching it lately cause my Knicks and Yankees are hopeless especially with Mariano going down...
> 
> BTW, who's going to the VE shootout? I'm going on Saturday, May 19.


What a crushing injury for Mariano! Not the way I would have hoped his career would have ended.


----------



## Theatredaz

DJG said:


> It's very situation-specific. Ken Ross doesn't see it in THX or ISF, but I do. It was reduced very noticeably with 2.17. But the calibration doesn't affect it all that much, unless you reduce the contrast drastically (and detrementally) and even then it's a minor reduction. It has to do with the algorithms that control the local dimming zones. Apparently the IVC Low math controls the pulsing effect much better than the straight-up Local Dimming, but you have to jump through s few hoops to not get the intended bright, high-contrast look of the IVC Low setting.


Here is a video of my Elite: It has a strange Flash effect on 2 Bluray Titles I've noticed it on: Aliens and Captain America 2012 bluray release.... Film grain that seems to clip and cause the pulsing backlight to flash or sparodically or something. The TV works perfect except for strange flashing behaviour in Dark scenes where film grain or moire is exasperated into brightness clipping.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FTyqbHBm5R4

Notice as your watching the video, you can notice the quick flashing every so often in the scene> Also IMO this scene is very poorly rendered...It's as if the scene was shot on a cheap 8 MP camera...tons of noise that shouldn't be there at all for a bluray tansfer.


If you still can't see the flashing here is another video with the CLIP's brightness setting increased, thus making the flashing more apparent.

Video 2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GjR0KoR2RWk


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Theatredaz said:


> Here is a video of my Elite: It has a strange Flash effect on 2 Bluray Titles I've noticed it on: Aliens and Captain America 2012 bluray release.... Film grain that seems to clip and cause the pulsing backlight to flash or sparodically or something. The TV works perfect except for strange flashing behaviour in Dark scenes where film grain or moire is exasperated into brightness clipping.
> 
> Video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FTyqbHBm5R4
> 
> Notice as your watching the video, you can notice the quick flashing every so often in the scene> Also IMO this scene is very poorly rendered...It's as if the scene was shot on a cheap 8 MP camera...tons of noise that shouldn't be there at all for a bluray tansfer.
> 
> If you still can't see the flashing here is another video with the CLIP's brightness setting increased, thus making the flashing more apparent.
> 
> Video 2:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GjR0KoR2RWk


Something is wrong with your setup, or set itself. I just checked my bluray copy of Captain America, using a PS3, to my Elite, and there is no sign of any of that grainy pulsating stuff going on in your demo. I have a clear picture on my end.


----------



## lcaillo

Theatredaz said:


> Here is a video of my Elite: It has a strange Flash effect on 2 Bluray Titles I've noticed it on: Aliens and Captain America 2012 bluray release.... Film grain that seems to clip and cause the pulsing backlight to flash or sparodically or something. The TV works perfect except for strange flashing behaviour in Dark scenes where film grain or moire is exasperated into brightness clipping.
> 
> Video:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FTyqbHBm5R4
> 
> Notice as your watching the video, you can notice the quick flashing every so often in the scene> Also IMO this scene is very poorly rendered...It's as if the scene was shot on a cheap 8 MP camera...tons of noise that shouldn't be there at all for a bluray tansfer.
> 
> 
> If you still can't see the flashing here is another video with the CLIP's brightness setting increased, thus making the flashing more apparent.
> 
> Video 2:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GjR0KoR2RWk


What is the source?


----------



## Theatredaz

lcaillo said:


> What is the source?



Bluray is opp-93


----------



## Theatredaz

GeneWildersHair said:


> Something is wrong with your setup, or set itself. I just checked my bluray copy of Captain America, using a PS3, to my Elite, and there is no sign of any of that grainy pulsating stuff going on in your demo. I have a clear picture on my end.


Are you saying there is no film grain in that scene?> impossible...as the film grain is the same color as the scene itself?

* From what I understand...the TV is an electronic work to marvel at...has anyone ever touched or even tapped on the screen panel itself?...it produces a flashing or light spark (in the are you tapp on)...kind of like lightning..nothing I have ever seen before on a tv panel...I don't know what causes the TV's panel to light up when touched...it could be the phophores in the LED panels itself becoming excited or something. The reason I ever tapped on the screen itself was my first elite panel had a glitch that caused the display to show a blue bar grid on the panel...(first 70" elite I purchased)...I ended up tapping on the panel to see what the blue grid was...and in doing so I found that the panel ignited with a light flash momentarily....pretty freak if you ask me.

The Panel itself to does not have any other issues I am aware of. Just trying to figure out why it occurs on some movies with dark scenes and high film grain or pixelation in dark scenes.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Theatredaz said:


> Are you saying there is no film grain in that scene?> impossible...as the film grain is the same color as the scene itself?
> 
> * From what I understand...the TV is an electronic work to marvel at...has anyone ever touched or even tapped on the screen panel itself?...it produces a flashing or light spark (in the are you tapp on)...kind of like lightning..nothing I have ever seen before on a tv panel...I don't know what causes the TV's panel to light up when touched...it could be the phophores in the LED panels itself becoming excited or something. The reason I ever tapped on the screen itself was my first elite panel had a glitch that caused the display to show a blue bar grid on the panel...(first 70" elite I purchased)...I ended up tapping on the panel to see what the blue grid was...and in doing so I found that the panel ignited with a light flash momentarily....pretty freak if you ask me.
> 
> The Panel itself to does not have any other issues I am aware of. Just trying to figure out why it occurs on some movies with dark scenes and high film grain or pixelation in dark scenes.


There is film grain, but I do not see it doing any of that flashing white, like yours. And overall my picture is just clearer,(with the normal film grain look of course). What your set is doing is very odd. I've replayed that scene many times upping the brightness as well.


----------



## Theatredaz

Well maybe I'm not sitting far back enough...how far are you sitting from the set...anything closer than 6ft and the poor transfer in the scene is more noticable...than sitting 10FT-12FT back from the display etc.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Theatredaz said:


> Well maybe I'm not sitting far back enough...how far are you sitting from the set...anything closer than 6ft and the poor transfer in the scene is more noticable...than sitting 10FT-12FT back from the display etc.


I sit 7-8', depending on which seat I take. I got closer to the screen and don't see that effect. I'm sorry but even wuth the film grain, I've got a pretty sharp, stable picture thru this scene and the rest of the movie. Something just doesn't right with the way your picture looks. Is anyone here else having that weird issue?


----------



## Theatredaz

GeneWildersHair said:


> I sit 7-8', depending on which seat I take. I got closer to the screen and don't see that effect. I'm sorry but even wuth the film grain, I've got a pretty sharp, stable picture thru this scene and the rest of the movie. Something just doesn't right with the way your picture looks. Is anyone here else having that weird issue?


Yes my display has the flashing effect in dark scenes, the bluray review actually quickly states how it drops in resolution when there are dark scenes and was due in part that the film used in some scenes was sephia in tint etc

Otherwise the scene where captain america symbol is seen underneath the ice was amazingly sharp and has some amazing photo realism. The review goes on to say that the rest of the movie during bright scenes was just stunnning (as I've yet to watch more into the movie due to the flashing) ( which I found reaches deeper into the start of the Movie.)

What is there to really like about the movie> it can't get sharp detail right in some bright scenes...the film grain becomes more apparent throughout the movie without being overly distracting, but I've checked out the bluray review of men in black 2 and it was stunning to see there was little film grain but...amazing photo realism to the film transfer ...I really would wonder if plasma can render the film grain less apparently than LCD does...and have scenes be less distracting.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Theatredaz said:


> Yes my display has the flashing effect in dark scenes, the bluray review actually quickly states how it drops in resolution when there are dark scenes and was due in part that the film used in some scenes was sephia in tint etc
> 
> Otherwise the scene where captain america symbol is seen underneath the ice was amazingly sharp and has some amazing photo realism. The review goes on to say that the rest of the movie during bright scenes was just stunnning (as I've yet to watch more into the movie due to the flashing) ( which I found reaches deeper into the start of the Movie.)
> 
> What is there to really like about the movie> it can't get sharp detail right in some bright scenes...the film grain becomes more apparent throughout the movie without being overly distracting, but I've checked out the bluray review of men in black 2 and it was stunning to see there was little film grain but...amazing photo realism to the film transfer ...I really would wonder if plasma can render the film grain less apparently than LCD does...and have scenes be less distracting.


Again, film grain, and drop in frame rate is one thing, but what you see (and we) can see in your videos of your set is another. I cannot stress enough that my set doesn't look anywhere near that bad in that scene. It doesn't pulsate with that white grain look at all. If my Elite did that, I would be exchanging asap. I wish others could check it out also, and chime in here.


----------



## Theatredaz

I'm not really posting this to complain about the Elite> I feel this anomoly can be resolved via firmware update...since it only happens in extremely poor low level lighting in scenes that were'nt rendered properly by the camera or something...absolutely no other movies or SD/HD broadcasts does this ever occur...if...I find that in a year that I'm seeing it more way more often in movies...then my Elite Warranty(insurance policy @ 5 Years exchange ~via Delear store I purchased it from) will kick in and I can have my entire set replaced.

* Again I could blame the settings I have as brightness and contrast are increased.


----------



## DJG

Theatredaz, you're still assumiung it's a design defect whereas nobody else seems to be having this issue. I would not wait for a FW update to fix something that hasn't been identified as a common problem.


----------



## lcaillo

Theatredaz said:


> Bluray is opp-93


Have you tried another source? It could be that either the player or your set is defective. The degree of the problem leads me to think the set.


----------



## Theatredaz

It might be detail enhancement settings on my DVDO. It's cranked out @ 78...I tinkered with my VLC media player and adjusted the details settings on it and saw the same effect on my PC monitor minus the flashing...still have to tinker with it.


----------



## Theatredaz

* As of now this issue with the set is closed...if it occurs again in an enitrety in a movie then I will consider what to do at that point...in the meantime my next plan for the set is to run a High power gaming card into the set and use the set for what I always wanted it for GAMING!!!! Enjoy your sets guys.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

A note to all Elite owners.. Make it a primary objective to call this week to Elite to demand a cyan fix.. Based on my discussions today, it appears they're laid back on the issue. Not to mention, one of the supervisors at Elite indicated a couple months ago that a calibrator got excellent results even with the issue. This may be true, but with that kind of attitude, they may not feel obligated to fix it. I made a call this morning and demanded that one of the supervisors to call me back. You have to get passed the first wave of call screeners by asking for a supervisor, such as Will. This is the only way we'll get an answer or at the very least to get them off their butts to work on a fix, if even possible. If you don't have the number handy, please call 855-ELITE-01.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DJ Mike Fury said:


> A note to all Elite owners.. Make it a primary objective to call this week to Elite to demand a cyan fix.. Based on my discussions today, it appears they're laid back on the issue. Not to mention, one of the supervisors at Elite indicated a couple months ago that a calibrator got excellent results even with the issue. This may be true, but with that kind of attitude, they may not feel obligated to fix it. I made a call this morning and demanded that one of the supervisors to call me back. You have to get passed the first wave of call screeners by asking for a supervisor, such as Will. This is the only way we'll get an answer or at the very least to get them off their butts to work on a fix, if even possible. If you don't have the number handy, please call 855-ELITE-01.


Will do, also I will voice concern about the pulsing/flickering, as it remains a bug issue for a lot of owners.


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> A note to all Elite owners.. Make it a primary objective to call this week to Elite to demand a cyan fix.. Based on my discussions today, it appears they're laid back on the issue. Not to mention, one of the supervisors at Elite indicated a couple months ago that a calibrator got excellent results even with the issue. This may be true, but with that kind of attitude, they may not feel obligated to fix it. I made a call this morning and demanded that one of the supervisors to call me back. You have to get passed the first wave of call screeners by asking for a supervisor, such as Will. This is the only way we'll get an answer or at the very least to get them off their butts to work on a fix, if even possible. If you don't have the number handy, please call 855-ELITE-01.


I think part of the problem is that many people who own the ELITE don't see this as much of a problem including myself. We see a great picture with in fact very accurate color when compared to even the reference KURO Plasma display, most of us are very content. If a fix ever does happen I'd rather they take their time and do it right, I don't want it fixing one thing only to mess up another!:nono:


----------



## DJG

It's going to be interesting to see how they address this at the shootout. Yiu'd think they'd want to report good progress.


----------



## lcaillo

The degree of the problem after the sets are calibrated just does not seem to be that significant a problem to me. People have spent a lot more for many years to get really high end sets that don't do nearly as well. Perspective....


----------



## chansensturm

Good idea, I'm going to put in a call too. If there is a cluster of complaints in the span of a week or so, that might show up on someone's radar.


----------



## dsskid

Most would consider not having a fix within 7 months, after Sharp promised at the October 2011 Shootout to release one within 4 weeks, as _"taking their time"._

It might be pretty embarrassing for Sharp not to have the fix in place at the May 2012 Shootout being held in less than 2 weeks. 

They shouldn't get a pass just because the display has the ElitE moniker on it.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> Most would consider not having a fix within 7 months, after Sharp promised at the October 2011 Shootout to release one within 4 weeks, as _"taking their time"._
> 
> It might be pretty embarrassing for Sharp not to have the fix in place at the May 2012 Shootout being held in less than 2 weeks.
> 
> They shouldn't get a pass just because the display has the ElitE moniker on it.


I think it's obvious originally they had thought the issue was something that could be fix rather easily or quickly. This is why it's a smart idea to never promise a specific fix date for something unless you can deliver the goods on time. This will be another learning lesson but nothing that hasn't happened before.


----------



## Radtech51

:bigsmile:

Quote: "Outstanding color accuracy."
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403999,00.asp


----------



## chansensturm

Called Elite support today, and spoke with Will. Came away with the impression that these really are top-tier support people, that they genuinely care about the product and, and about their customers.

Here's a summary:

- They are expecting our calls this week .... so be nice to them ;-)
- Their engineering team is actively working on the pulsing fix.
- Their engineering team is "aware" of the cyan issue, and are definitely still working on it. No promises on that front.
- Their engineering team actively reads the boards, looking for feedback. The more concrete we can be about mentioning issues on specific BD titles, scene numbers, etc, ... the better. That information is useful.
- I told him my expectation was that Sharp would follow through on public promises made from Sharp upper management about providing the update. Sharp fully awknowledges that a public commitment was made.
- I relayed my personal story, where, after noting this very public commitment (in the face of an absolute public-relations nightmare on avsforum at the time), I proceeded to purchase the TV based on this commitment. 
- There is a lot of email traffic between the Sharp dev team and Will's support group regarding these two issues.
- Sharp support is "caught in the middle", they reflect feedback, but obviously they can only indirectly influence the dev team.
- Calling puts pressure on the dev team, in the sense that Will can reflect customer feedback.
- I asked if the color issue was a "systemic architectural flaw involving Y-pixel/Quattron tech", or whether this is amenable to a firmware "color decoder" fix. I didn't expect to receive a definitive answer, nor does Sharp customer support really know the answer to this; however, what Will did say was rather interesting: "I've never seen any reports indicating that this isn't fixable" (paraphrasing here). Interpret that as you will ;-)
- I mentioned that I believe the last firmware updated changed a dampening factor which slows down the time it takes to change/flip the backlight state. This means that the "halo effect" tends to be more exaggerated/pronounced since it persists longer due to the change in dampening factor (e.g., longer state change latency). Will said he understood exactly what I was referring to.
- I told Will that this was a fantastic product and that I am very pleased with my purchase. That said, I also told him I expected the fixes to be put in place given a/ the premium price of the product, and b/ the public commitments that have been made. 

A firmware update in time for the next shootout would be a true marketing coup for Sharp. Think about the positive impact that would make.

cheers
--craig


----------



## Radtech51

chansensturm said:


> Called Elite support today, and spoke with Will. Came away with the impression that these really are top-tier support people, that they genuinely care about the product and, and about their customers.
> 
> Here's a summary:
> 
> - They are expecting our calls this week .... so be nice to them ;-)
> - Their engineering team is actively working on the pulsing fix.
> - Their engineering team is "aware" of the cyan issue, and are definitely still working on it. No promises on that front.
> - Their engineering team actively reads the boards, looking for feedback. The more concrete we can be about mentioning issues on specific BD titles, scene numbers, etc, ... the better. That information is useful.
> - I told him my expectation was that Sharp would follow through on public promises made from Sharp upper management about providing the update. Sharp fully awknowledges that a public commitment was made.
> - I relayed my personal story, where, after noting this very public commitment (in the face of an absolute public-relations nightmare on avsforum at the time), I proceeded to purchase the TV based on this commitment.
> - There is a lot of email traffic between the Sharp dev team and Will's support group regarding these two issues.
> - Sharp support is "caught in the middle", they reflect feedback, but obviously they can only indirectly influence the dev team.
> - Calling puts pressure on the dev team, in the sense that Will can reflect customer feedback.
> - I asked if the color issue was a "systemic architectural flaw involving Y-pixel/Quattron tech", or whether this is amenable to a firmware "color decoder" fix. I didn't expect to receive a definitive answer, nor does Sharp customer support really know the answer to this; however, what Will did say was rather interesting: "I've never seen any reports indicating that this isn't fixable" (paraphrasing here). Interpret that as you will ;-)
> - I mentioned that I believe the last firmware updated changed a dampening factor which slows down the time it takes to change/flip the backlight state. This means that the "halo effect" tends to be more exaggerated/pronounced since it persists longer due to the change in dampening factor (e.g., longer state change latency). Will said he understood exactly what I was referring to.
> - I told Will that this was a fantastic product and that I am very pleased with my purchase. That said, I also told him I expected the fixes to be put in place given a/ the premium price of the product, and b/ the public commitments that have been made.
> 
> A firmware update in time for the next shootout would be a true marketing coup for Sharp. Think about the positive impact that would make.
> 
> cheers
> --craig


Quote: "I believe the last firmware updated changed a dampening factor which slows down the time it takes to change/flip the backlight state. This means that the "halo effect" tends to be more exaggerated/pronounced since it persists longer due to the change in dampening factor (e.g., longer state change latency). Will said he understood exactly what I was referring to."

This could end up being a trade off in the end, you fix one issue only to settle for another. :rubeyes:


----------



## chansensturm

Indeed.... 

BTW...just to show you though how diligent Sharp is, I received a call 1 hour after posting this. Working to capture this in a bug report for them.


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> :bigsmile:
> 
> Quote: "Outstanding color accuracy."
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2403999,00.asp


PCMag.... Have you seen their top 10 display list? Enough said.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372085,00.asp


----------



## buzzard767

dsskid said:


> PCMag.... Have you seen their top 10 display list? Enough said.
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372085,00.asp


The Elite review conclusions, from a calibrator's eye, borders on stupid. 111 FtL eyeball burning peak white good? Excellent color when they only measured 100% primary saturations and green was way high? 

The computer magazine should stick to computers.

I truly hope the recent blitz of info from the owners to Sharp tech produces results. Sharp needs to either make it happen or admit they cannot.


----------



## mechman

I think I would stick to CNET, Home Theater magazine (scroll down to the high end models), or one of the many other trade publications that rate it the best.

As Buzz said, PCMag should stick to PCs.

And as Leonard stated earlier:



> The degree of the problem after the sets are calibrated just does not seem to be that significant a problem to me. People have spent a lot more for many years to get really high end sets that don't do nearly as well. Perspective....


This is from a gentleman who was in the industry for many years. 

Whether they fix it or not, it will still be the best high end flat panel on the market.


----------



## buzzard767

mechman said:


> This is from a gentleman who was in the industry for many years.
> 
> Whether they fix it or not, it will still be the best high end flat panel on the market.


I agree totally. Until equal or better black levels become available, and correct color throughout the Rec.709 Gamut is verifiable, the Elite will be the king of the flat panels.


----------



## chansensturm

buzzard767 said:


> ...correct color throughout the Rec.709 Gamut is verifiable...


Can you elaborate a bit ? This sounds interesting.


----------



## rab-byte

chansensturm said:


> Can you elaborate a bit ? This sounds interesting.


He is saying that until another brand makes a rival to the elite, the elite is the best display out there.


----------



## mechman

More than likely the Elite will remain #1 until the OLEDs start hitting the market. Then we'll all have to go and find the glitches with those displays. :dumbcrazy:


----------



## DJG

I don't know - Robert sounded pretty impressed with Panasonic's WT50 in his shootout thread post. I think Sharp Elite has some competition, and competition is always good ...


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> PCMag.... Have you seen their top 10 display list? Enough said.
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372085,00.asp


No, but the fact remains that the majority of people who continue to review the ELITE don't seem to see a problem, and I find that very intresting. In fact it's common knowledge that this issue has been blown way out of proportion as Ken has stated numerous times in the past. Now this is not to say that this cyan issue doesn't exist however as we all know it does, but it's rather ironic wouldn't you say that this issue is made out to be such a big deal when no one else seems to even notice it? :rubeyes:


----------



## cleveland plasma

mechman said:


> More than likely the Elite will remain #1 until the OLEDs start hitting the market. Then we'll all have to go and find the glitches with those displays. :dumbcrazy:


Depends if you are talking about the Older Elite Plasma's or the new LED's. Chad B posted his review and feels the VT50 Panasonic's are indeed better than the LED Elite's overall.


----------



## highendallday

All I can say is I love my elite, I own the 60" and its stunning.


----------



## highendallday

By the end of the shootout next week, do you guys feel like the elite will be dethroned as the tv to best in 2012.


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> No, but the fact remains that the majority of people who continue to review the ELITE don't seem to see a problem, and I find that very intresting. In fact it's common knowledge that this issue has been blown way out of proportion as Ken has stated numerous times in the past. Now this is not to say that this cyan issue doesn't exist however as we all know it does, but it's rather ironic wouldn't you say that this issue is made out to be such a big deal when no one else seems to even notice it? :rubeyes:


Relax. I didn't mention any of the reported shortfalls when responding to your post of the PCMag review. I just can't put and credibility in their reviews.

Don't be so defensive. I think the Sharp is a nice display.


----------



## highendallday

Just so everyone knows I know a territory manager for sharp and he stated that the elite will be released this year in an 80" Version, with better internet features and no quattron sub-pixel panel. So it looks like they cannot fix the cyan issue on the current models, of what people have stated exist.


----------



## Robert Zohn

I think the main reason Elite will drop the 4th sub-pixel ^^ is to make room for more pixels in the panel.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

Well, it IS getting kind of crowded in there if you're jamming 4K pixels in the same space


----------



## Kalik

cleveland plasma said:


> Depends if you are talking about the Older Elite Plasma's or the new LED's. Chad B posted his review and feels the VT50 Panasonic's are indeed better than the LED Elite's overall.


Chad also rates the Sony HX929 higher then the Sharp Elite which I found interesting...another calibrator Jeff Meier feels the same

every high end display seems to have some issue or another...no such thing as the 'perfect' display


----------



## Kent Layton

Just an update, as I've been out of touch lately; fortunately, since the firmware update 2-3 weeks back, the bottom half of my television screen has not gone completely haywire. However, the halo-ing, ghosting effect is just driving me up the wall. I see it on all types of feeds, hi-def and standard DVD definition, as well. As an example, I was just watching an episode of _Star Trek: The Next Generation_ called "Tin Man," and in the scenes where Data is walking around with his tricorder inside the alien vessel (which is quite dark), there was an enormous halo around his head and the tricorder. I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one seeing this issue on this TV; hopefully we'll get a "fix" so that I won't be driven completely wild.

On the other hand, what's interesting is that I don't really notice the color problems mentioned on this thread at all. I'm really glad I don't!  Take care, guys!

Best wishes,
Kent


----------



## Radtech51

Kalik said:


> Chad also rates the Sony HX929 higher then the Sharp Elite which I found interesting...another calibrator Jeff Meier feels the same
> 
> every high end display seems to have some issue or another...no such thing as the 'perfect' display


Yep very true, and we have to keep reminding ourselves that everyone has an opinion but it doesn't realy mean anything, what matters is what you think! :clap:


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> Relax. I didn't mention any of the reported shortfalls when responding to your post of the PCMag review. I just can't put and credibility in their reviews.
> 
> Don't be so defensive. I think the Sharp is a nice display.


I agree and it's all good, everyone is in-tilted to an opinion, even PCMag review.


----------



## Rukk

What I want to know is why are all these people coming on here talking about what others rated the Elite and what sets they regarded higher! Exactly what's your point? Do YOU think those other sets are "better"? If so, then your course is clear isn't it? Why are you going out of your way to diminish the Elite?


----------



## lcaillo

Other reviews are useful to know about. I agree that rather than just pointing out that someone said something was better or not is not as useful as discussing the review with more context. For instance, WHY are other sets rated higher and what were the criteria upon which they were judged? Were they tested under the same calibrated conditions or not really calibrated at all? Was color or luminance error even measured for any of the sets?

As I have said before, context and perspective is everything. The Elite has been picked apart for issues that may not even be considered or noticed in other sets. Many of the priorities used in judging sets might have little to do with the issues discussed here.


----------



## Rukk

I agree with what you're saying but my point is....BOTTOM LINE: it's on the individual whether he/she likes the set or not. If the picture looks best to them over other sets or not. These people are using certain reviewers in an attempt to say the Elite isn't as good as others think it is. Well just say that. Why are they using someone else's opinion? What, they think it's because their opinion won't matter or be taken seriously? They may well be right, but at least they got to express it. What they're doing is saying "I don't like the Elite and (fill in the blank) agrees with me". Unnecessary. Just say "I don't like the Elite". Stop looking for co-signers.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Just to set the record straight, unquestionably, the Elite TV is an example of an excellent display. 

Not only did it win the popular vote of more than 60 serious a/v enthusiasts at our mid October 2011 Flat Panel Shootout Evaluation, but it won Home Theater Magazine's distinction as the "World's Best TV" and David Katzmeier said the same. It also won several other professional reviewers top pick awards. 

Determining the quality of a display's image is mostly a science and then add a very little bit of personal opinion. In the real world 90% or more agree on what TV delivers the best picture. I know this because we leave up the Shootout wall all year and our store gets a lot of traffic and when novices and advanced armatures along with pros all pick out the Elite TV as the best of the lot you know you have a winner.

Further, from a very quick review of the 2012 Shootout wall I can tell you the Elite is still the winner for the deepest black level without crushing any details.

The three biggest advantages the Elite has over the Sony HX929 is the amount of local dimming zones, the better off axes viewing quality and the deeper blacks and higher luminance without clipping or crushing. Of course the larger 70" size is also very nice to have.

-Robert


----------



## DJG

What about the haloing? My Elite has absolutely no haloing, even on those credits with white letters on black background.


----------



## Robert Zohn

That's because of the 400+ local dimming zones. No other LED has even close to the number of local dimming zones. 

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Just to set the record straight, unquestionably, the Elite TV is an example of an excellent display.
> 
> Not only did it win the popular vote of more than 60 serious a/v enthusiasts at our mid October 2011 Flat Panel Shootout Evaluation, but it won Home Theater Magazine's distinction as the "World's Best TV" and David Katzmeier said the same. It also won several other professional reviewers top pick awards.
> 
> Determining the quality of a display's image is mostly a science and then add a very little bit of personal opinion. In the real world 90% or more agree on what TV delivers the best picture. I know this because we leave up the Shootout wall all year and our store gets a lot of traffic and when novices and advanced armatures along with pros all pick out the Elite TV as the best of the lot you know you have a winner.
> 
> Further, from a very quick review of the 2012 Shootout wall I can tell you the Elite is still the winner for the deepest black level without crushing any details.
> 
> The three biggest advantages the Elite has over the Sony HX929 is the amount of local dimming zones, the better off axes viewing quality and the deeper blacks and higher luminance without clipping or crushing. Of course the larger 70" size is also very nice to have.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for setting the record straight Robert! I personaly thought as much already especially regarding the black levels. I'll be looking forward to the upcoming HD Shootout, someday I hope to suprise you and actually show up in person. :T


----------



## Ken Ross

mechman said:


> I think I would stick to CNET, Home Theater magazine (scroll down to the high end models), or one of the many other trade publications that rate it the best.
> 
> As Buzz said, PCMag should stick to PCs.
> 
> And as Leonard stated earlier:
> 
> This is from a gentleman who was in the industry for many years.
> 
> Whether they fix it or not, it will still be the best high end flat panel on the market.


And some people simply don't want to hear that. After all, isn't it easier to point to one review from a computer publication as 'flawed' rather than acknowledge (as you've stated) that their findings have been mirrored in almost all of the trade publications.


----------



## Ken Ross

mechman said:


> More than likely the Elite will remain #1 until the OLEDs start hitting the market. Then we'll all have to go and find the glitches with those displays. :dumbcrazy:


Ain't that the truth! One thing I've always noticed is that equipment generally acknowledged to be the best is the same equipment that's the target of a select few. It's always been that way. I think the word 'jealousy' can help explain much of that.


----------



## Ken Ross

cleveland plasma said:


> Depends if you are talking about the Older Elite Plasma's or the new LED's. Chad B posted his review and feels the VT50 Panasonic's are indeed better than the LED Elite's overall.


Well considering that Chad was one of the few not overly impressed with the Elite, that does'nt say much.


----------



## Ken Ross

highendallday said:


> By the end of the shootout next week, do you guys feel like the elite will be dethroned as the tv to best in 2012.


Frankly I don't think most owners will care that much. I've always put more weight in professional reviews anyway and the most weight to what my eyes see. Some at the shootout may be influenced by the negative comments of one of the calibrators there. It wouldn't surprise me to see a full screen, low luminance cyan field displayed to 'prove' how miserable the Elite's color is. 

I can't tell you how much I feel it's time to 'move on'.


----------



## Ken Ross

Kalik said:


> Chad also rates the Sony HX929 higher then the Sharp Elite which I found interesting...another calibrator Jeff Meier feels the same
> 
> every high end display seems to have some issue or another...no such thing as the 'perfect' display


Having owned a 929, I couldn't disagree more. To my eyes the Elite is clearly superior. But yes, there is no perfect display nor will there ever be.


----------



## Rukk

Ken Ross said:


> Having owned a 929, I couldn't disagree more. To my eyes the Elite is clearly superior. But yes, there is no perfect display nor will there ever be.


I agree 100%. I was almost set to get the 929 (I was hedging because I previously owned a 70" SXRD and I had a difficult time rationalizing the loss of 5 inches. Standard rule: Stay static with you tv size or go up never down) then I read reviews on the Elite went to see for myself and had the good fortune to have both sets on display at a magnolia and then a Pacific Sales ( which was even better because they were side by side). As much as I loved the 929 it couldn't compare to the Elite. Now I'm a proud owner of one and will (finally) get it calibrated. I'm sold on the cyan issue not being a big deal or rendering the calibration inaccurate.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> Well considering that Chad was one of the few not overly impressed with the Elite, that does'nt say much.


I used to think Chad knew his stuff but now I'm not to sure.


----------



## mechman

Let's keep the discussion on the Elite. Chad is a highly qualified calibrator.


----------



## Radtech51

I just finished watching the movie "Hereafter", I know it's about time. Anyway I never actually could manage to get through the entire movie back in the day when I was referencing it for the renowned VT30 Fluctuating Brightness scene on the beach. Anyway It's actually got a decent ending and of course just looked fantastic on the ELITE. :bigsmile:


----------



## Radtech51

Here are some more Images for everyone to enjoy.
All Images were taken in ISF-NIGHT Picture Mode. ISF Calibrated by Kevin Miller.
Camera used was a Canon EOS 60D (Manual Mode)


----------



## cleveland plasma

Ken Ross said:


> Well considering that Chad was one of the few not overly impressed with the Elite, that does'nt say much.


I assume by the  that you posted Ken, everything is OK. I was not trying to start anything here. We all know, including Chad, that the Elite is a *Excellent* set. No matter what topic, no matter what subject, the best is always a matter of opinion.


----------



## DJG

I don't want to sound unappreciative of the effort, but the problem with any pic one might post is that they don't do any justice to the actual picture on the TV. The dynamic range of the camera is just not great enough to capture the highlights, shadows and blacks together, a testament to the Elite's performance.

These pictures of the BD (I'm assuming) of Episode 3 which I also have, as nice as they may be, show crushed blacks and oversaturated colors relative to my calibrated ISF settings. I know Kevin does a great job and want to make sure it is clear this is not a true representation of the actual performance, no offense intended to the photographer.


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> I don't want to sound unappreciative of the effort, but the problem with any pic one might post is that they don't do any justice to the actual picture on the TV. The dynamic range of the camera is just not great enough to capture the highlights, shadows and blacks together, a testament to the Elite's performance.
> 
> These pictures of the BD (I'm assuming) of Episode 3 which I also have, as nice as they may be, show crushed blacks and oversaturated colors relative to my calibrated ISF settings. I know Kevin does a great job and want to make sure it is clear this is not a true representation of the actual performance, no offense intended to the photographer.


It's quite all right, as I've said before these pictures are just for fun only. The actual picture looks way better in person as you already know, I do this mainly because people seem to enjoy it and ask for them. :sn:


----------



## DJG

cleveland plasma said:


> I assume by the  that you posted Ken, everything is OK. I was not trying to start anything here. We all know, including Chad, that the Elite is a *Excellent* set. No matter what topic, no matter what subject, the best is always a matter of opinion.


Some people like and prefer the plasma look, so the best plasma will always look better to them than the best LCD/LED (assuming they're in a close enough performance range) . Different strokes for different folks.


----------



## DJG

Radtech51 said:


> It's quite all right, as I've said before these pictures are just for fun only. The actual picture looks way better in person as you already know, I do this mainly because people seem to enjoy it and ask for them. :sn:


Fair enough . I just don't trust some of these over-enthusiastic plasma lovers :nono:  ...


----------



## Radtech51

DJG said:


> Fair enough . I just don't trust some of these over-enthusiastic plasma lovers :nono:  ...


Some of those folk just smoke to much of that Plasma gas! :rofl:

PS: j/k


----------



## Ken Ross

cleveland plasma said:


> I assume by the  that you posted Ken, everything is OK. I was not trying to start anything here. We all know, including Chad, that the Elite is a *Excellent* set. No matter what topic, no matter what subject, the best is always a matter of opinion.


Absolutely my friend. Everything is AOK! I know you're very fair.


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Some of those folk just smoke to much of that Plasma gas! :rofl:
> 
> PS: j/k


Besides, we all know that plasmas need to be refilled with gas every couple of years. With the price of premium these days, that makes plasma operation really prohibitive!


----------



## Theatredaz

DJG said:


> Some people like and prefer the plasma look, so the best plasma will always look better to them than the best LCD/LED (assuming they're in a close enough performance range) . Different strokes for different folks.


Plasma has a finer look to Films> believe it or not I could tell this difference when I watched the video of the shootout> I noticed the camera that recorded the shootout> it actually showed the LCD tv's picture as grainier or slightly more pixelated ~ the Plasma sets did not show this, and hid the pixelation wonderfully.

The trade of is really do you require a set to just view films on or a set for both watching TV and Films/movies + games as well. I assumed most enthusists who bought the Kuros where only watching films on them nothing more.


----------



## DJG

Come on! You really cannot judge a TV by a video of it!!!


----------



## Ken Ross

Theatredaz said:


> Plasma has a finer look to Films> believe it or not I could tell this difference when I watched the video of the shootout> I noticed the camera that recorded the shootout> it actually showed the LCD tv's picture as grainier or slightly more pixelated ~ the Plasma sets did not show this, and hid the pixelation wonderfully.
> 
> The trade of is really do you require a set to just view films on or a set for both watching TV and Films/movies + games as well. I assumed most enthusists who bought the Kuros where only watching films on them nothing more.


I can't say I agree with this at all. I find the Elite more 'precise' and sharper than my Kuro was, but i see no increase in pixelization or grain at all (other than the grain that might be inherent in some films).


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> I can't say I agree with this at all. I find the Elite more 'precise' and sharper than my Kuro was, but i see no increase in pixelization or grain at all (other than the grain that might be inherent in some films).


+1

Although I can't clam to have ever owned a Pioneer KURO like Ken I have owned other Plasma displays for a short time like the D8000 and VT30 to be specific. I also find the Elite picture more precise and sharper as Ken put it, in fact it was one of the things that actually surprised me because I wasn't expecting that out of the box. I also never saw any increase in pixelization or grain what so ever again, in fact just the opposite. :rubeyes:


----------



## lcaillo

Theatredaz said:


> Plasma has a finer look to Films> believe it or not I could tell this difference when I watched the video of the shootout> I noticed the camera that recorded the shootout> it actually showed the LCD tv's picture as grainier or slightly more pixelated ~ the Plasma sets did not show this, and hid the pixelation wonderfully.
> 
> The trade of is really do you require a set to just view films on or a set for both watching TV and Films/movies + games as well. I assumed most enthusists who bought the Kuros where only watching films on them nothing more.


My experience is that PDPs have greater grain, due to the less precise control of the activation process. LCDs have more of an artificial look due to the nature of the filters and the high intensity and poorer blacks. If the Elite is getting close on the blacks and is calibrated well, it could be a very nice trade-off. LCDs are usually more consistent from unit to unit within a model in my experience.


----------



## DJG

lcaillo said:


> My experience is that PDPs have greater grain, due to the less precise control of the activation process. LCDs have more of an artificial look due to the nature of the filters and the high intensity and poorer blacks. If the Elite is getting close on the blacks and is calibrated well, it could be a very nice trade-off. LCDs are usually more consistent from unit to unit within a model in my experience.


How about better than close, like really close or closer


----------



## Radtech51

lcaillo said:


> My experience is that PDPs have greater grain, due to the less precise control of the activation process. LCDs have more of an artificial look due to the nature of the filters and the high intensity and poorer blacks. If the Elite is getting close on the blacks and is calibrated well, it could be a very nice trade-off. LCDs are usually more consistent from unit to unit within a model in my experience.


I think we need to put the ELITE in a category of it's own since it obvyously breaks the standard rules applied to most of the LED population. lddude:


----------



## Ken Ross

lcaillo said:


> My experience is that PDPs have greater grain, due to the less precise control of the activation process. LCDs have more of an artificial look due to the nature of the filters and the high intensity and poorer blacks. If the Elite is getting close on the blacks and is calibrated well, it could be a very nice trade-off. LCDs are usually more consistent from unit to unit within a model in my experience.


I can tell you haven't seen one yet

The image is very natural, plasma-like, with the best black levels on the market...better than the Kuro.


----------



## Theatredaz

LED's look sharper but not as butter smooth as plasma. I will look for the video and post the moments where the TV's are On and being compared> you can seriously see the Plasma with smoother picture.


----------



## Ken Ross

Theatredaz said:


> LED's look sharper but not as butter smooth as plasma. I will look for the video and post the moments where the TV's are On and being compared> you can seriously see the Plasma with smoother picture.


Not sure about that. I've seen no difference in motion handling between my Kuros and the Elite. Both are buttery smooth.

It makes no sense at all to compare TVs from a video. I suggest people see it in person. I've never seen any owner complain of motion issues.


----------



## dsskid

Anyone have any info on the new Elite rumored to be out closer to the end of 2012?


----------



## Robert Zohn

John, ^^ We'll have more information this weekend at the Flat Panel Shootout event. Tom Evans, VP of the Elite brand will be at the Shootout.

-Robert


----------



## Rukk

I'd like to switch gears from all of this "is the Elite really as good as reputed" talk and discuss the color temp options. Owners and calibrators which do you prefer: the 10 point option or the "general" (low mid low middle mid high high) settings? Why? Also if you prefer the 10 point option what's your methodology on setting them?


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> John, ^^ We'll have more information this weekend at the Flat Panel Shootout event. Tom Evans, VP of the Elite brand will be at the Shootout.
> 
> -Robert


Thanks for the heads-up Robert, ....and for putting on the Shootout. Rizz & I will be driving up together Saturday.


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> John, ^^ We'll have more information this weekend at the Flat Panel Shootout event. Tom Evans, VP of the Elite brand will be at the Shootout.
> 
> -Robert


Why can't you live in CA Robert! :crying:


----------



## AZguy

Radtech51 said:


> Why can't you live in CA Robert! :crying:


+1


----------



## Theatredaz

* I don't know if I mentioned this before on here> but if a 4K Elite does come out @ 60-70" I would not buy it if it uses a 4K scaler> the simple task of scaling 480p to 1080p is already difficult if you inlude de-interlacing etc...it would be like trying to manually navigate through an astroid belt moving at 600,000 MPH> it's impossible to get perfect (at least for crummy SD broadcasts and some HD due to varying pulldown streams from the broadcaster that arn't always picked up quick enough producing messy artifacts and gamma/color issues as well possibly)

My Theory is if it uses Sony's or JVC's projectors 4K interpolating technology (apparently they double the 1080p signal then carefully adjusts it beside the original 1080p signal so each pixel is side by side~creating the Illusion of a higher detail image (which would work fine with me)> this method seems that it just mimics the original signal including any de-interlacing required and places it on top> this results in a projector viewing distance of 1ft! before any pixels can be viewed>>>something that would look marvelous on a 60-70-80 LED set! So keeping fingers crossed it works out that way.


----------



## Kalik

Robert Zohn said:


> John, ^^ We'll have more information this weekend at the Flat Panel Shootout event. Tom Evans, VP of the Elite brand will be at the Shootout.
> 
> -Robert


very good news...just another reason not to miss the Shootout

will the Elite VP be making any mentions of future fixes for the current Elite's cyan or pulsing issues?


----------



## DJG

How about bringing in a fix for the event


----------



## Weaselboy

Kalik said:


> very good news...just another reason not to miss the Shootout
> 
> will the Elite VP be making any mentions of future fixes for the current Elite's cyan or pulsing issues?


I am picturing a meeting at Sharp to discuss who will attend the Shootout with a bunch of people staring at their shoes hoping it is not them. :R


----------



## Kalik

Weaselboy said:


> I am picturing a meeting at Sharp to discuss who will attend the Shootout with a bunch of people staring at their shoes hoping it is not them. :R


exactly...I wonder if the rep who attended the Shootout last year and promised a fix for the cyan issue within a month has been banished to the cafeteria


----------



## JClam

Robert Zohn said:


> John, ^^ We'll have more information this weekend at the Flat Panel Shootout event. Tom Evans, VP of the Elite brand will be at the Shootout.
> 
> -Robert





Kalik said:


> exactly...I wonder if the rep who attended the Shootout last year and promised a fix for the cyan issue within a month has been banished to the cafeteria


According to the business card I kept from the shootout, the sharp rep was...Tom Evans.


----------



## Radtech51

Kalik said:


> exactly...I wonder if the rep who attended the Shootout last year and promised a fix for the cyan issue within a month has been banished to the cafeteria


Hopefully it was just a learning lesson for him because everyone has to learn afterall, i'm sure he believed what he was saying at the time. It just goes to say how complex the displays of today have become. lddude:


----------



## dsskid

Robert Zohn said:


> John, ^^ We'll have more information this weekend at the Flat Panel Shootout event. *Tom Evans*, VP of the Elite brand will be at the Shootout.
> 
> -Robert





Kalik said:


> exactly...I wonder if the rep who attended the Shootout last year and promised a fix for the cyan issue within a month has been banished to the cafeteria





JClam said:


> According to the business card I kept from the shootout, the sharp rep was...*Tom Evans*.


Ding, ding....we have a winner.

In all fairness, the rep doesn't engineer fixes. I've heard a rumor that the new Sharp Elite won't have the yellow pixel, which if true, would sway me to believe that the cyan error might be attributed to the yellow pixel after all, and may not be able to be corrected in the current Sharp Elites. 

Again, I have no evidence to back up my hunch. just trying to put 2 & 2 together without coming up with a 5 as the answer. 

And yes, the current Elites are exellent displays even with the cyan error.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> Ding, ding....we have a winner.
> 
> In all fairness, the rep doesn't engineer fixes. I've heard a rumor that the new Sharp Elite won't have the yellow pixel, which if true, would sway me to believe that the cyan error might be attributed to the yellow pixel after all, and may not be able to be corrected in the current Sharp Elites.
> 
> Again, I have no evidence to back up my hunch. just trying to put 2 & 2 together without coming up with a 5 as the answer.
> 
> And yes, the current Elites are exellent displays even with the cyan error.


It's logical and might be true regarding the yellow sub-pixel, however if you take away the sub-pixel you might have to give in other area. However rather or not the yellow sub-piexl is worth it or not we have yet to still see, let's see what happens down the road. lddude:


----------



## lcaillo

The cyan error is no greater than the error on many other sets once calibrated. Errors in mapping color decoders to the actual spectra of the combined output of the backlight and filters are very common. That mapping is even more complicated with the yellow pixel. Adding a yellow pixel for b/w (gray scale) is more trivial, but when you add color decoding in the mix it could get messy. Regardless, looking at the calibration results the sets just don't have a big problem with cyan. Before calibration it is way out, but any other set pre-calibration will have large errors as well.

IME, these are fine sets and the decision point is really whether you tend to prefer the look of PDP or LCD. I tend to prefer PDP personally, but aside from the price, I would be perfectly happy with these sets.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

If you want to get cyan fixed, just bring back the option to turn off the yellow pixel in the CMS controls. When Robert first received the Preproduction elite, it had the yellow pixel option for THX mode as well as ISF day/night. All they have to do is bring it back. Those are the only modes where you'd want to calibrate anyway. If you like the yellow pixel on, you can have the calibrator keep it on. If you want reference quality, just turn it off. I saw it with my own eyes and it looks better off. The elite rep and vp obviously didnt know at the shootout as they said it didn't, but it did. You have to question their credibility anyway since they said there would be a fix in a month. They're marketing guys.. Nothing more. The original CMS controls mimicked my girlfriend's Sharp 835 which has that option. When you turned the pixel off on the elite, it actually made the set look better. I remember the text looking white instead of tinted yellow on THX mode. The only advantage I see of yellow is brighter pictures in torch mode. When you get the TV calibrated, they all turn the yellow all the way down as much as possible which takes out that technology's use anyway. In fact, look at the beginning of this thread, Robert mentions about the same option I'm talking about on the middle of page 1 of this thread. If Sharp at least does that, I think there won't be any more complaining about cyan. As far as the 25%, of the panel turned off, it just sounds worse than it really is. I actually preferred the option as it didn't hinder the performance in that mode. What people forget is that you're basically doing a similar thing in the CMS controls to what an option can do for you completely.


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> If you want to get cyan fixed, just bring back the option to turn off the yellow pixel in the CMS controls. When Robert first received the Preproduction elite, it had the yellow pixel option for THX mode as well as ISF day/night. All they have to do is bring it back. Those are the only modes where you'd want to calibrate anyway. If you like the yellow pixel on, you can have the calibrator keep it on. If you want reference quality, just turn it off. I saw it with my own eyes and it looks better off. The elite rep and vp obviously didnt know at the shootout as they said it didn't, but it did. You have to question their credibility anyway since they said there would be a fix in a month. They're marketing guys.. Nothing more. The original CMS controls mimicked my girlfriend's Sharp 835 which has that option. When you turned the pixel off on the elite, it actually made the set look better. I remember the text looking white instead of tinted yellow on THX mode. The only advantage I see of yellow is brighter pictures in torch mode. When you get the TV calibrated, they all turn the yellow all the way down as much as possible which takes out that technology's use anyway. In fact, look at the beginning of this thread, Robert mentions about the same option I'm talking about on the middle of page 1 of this thread. If Sharp at least does that, I think there won't be any more complaining about cyan. As far as the 25%, of the panel turned off, it just sounds worse than it really is. I actually preferred the option as it didn't hinder the performance in that mode. What people forget is that you're basically doing a similar thing in the CMS controls to what an option can do for you completely.


I think more options are good and I would support the decision to be able to turn on/off the Yellow sub-pixel. However I don't see any issue with the whites like you do, and they do not appear to me any more yellowish other then what THX is normally known for out of the box. Best advise I can give to you is to get your display calibrated. lddude:


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Radtech51 said:


> I think more options are good and I would support the decision to be able to turn on/off the Yellow sub-pixel. However I don't see any issue with the whites like you do, and they do not appear to me any more yellowish other then what THX is normally known for out of the box. Best advise I can give to you is to get your display calibrated. lddude:


I did get mine calibrated. The calibration is good. I'm just talking about things like THX mode which originally had the yellow pixel option off as a factory setting for THX mode. Now, it's forced on which I'm assuming was not THX's original intent. The color was so great when we first saw it in THX mode. All you can say was wow. When they came out the second week in September, THX mysteriously wasn't the best mode out of the box.


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I did get mine calibrated. The calibration is good. I'm just talking about things like THX mode which originally had the yellow pixel option off as a factory setting for THX mode. Now, it's forced on which I'm assuming was not THX's original intent. The color was so great when we first saw it in THX mode. All you can say was wow. When they came out the second week in September, THX mysteriously wasn't the best mode out of the box.


After calibration you should be seeing very accurate color, you can always verify this with a reference display for comparison like Ken does with his KURO. :rubeyes:


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Anyone else having difficulties logging into the netflix app tonight?


----------



## DYAUS

GeneWildersHair said:


> Anyone else having difficulties logging into the netflix app tonight?


I can not log into Netflix either. Not sure what the issue is here.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

DYAUS said:


> I can not log into Netflix either. Not sure what the issue is here.


Figured it wasn't just me, as my connection and other apps work just fine. Thank you for checking it out.


----------



## DYAUS

No problem:T


----------



## Audiofiler

Few questions for owners..

How do you check what FW version the set currently has? I believe that 2.17 is the latest still if not mistaken.

I had my set calibrated by Kevin Miller and noticed that Film Mode is set to Standard for Calmodes and set to High on 3D mode. I am pretty sure that changing the Film Mode preference does not affect the calibration or color, correct? Film mode on high looked pretty SOE'd. I set to off in 3D mode and it looked much better. Do people with a calibrated set prefer to leave film mode off for Directv as well?

More details on my new set and the long journey to come.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Just got off the phone with Elite support, they informed me that all the Elite model tv's have a software conflict with the Netflix app preventing us from using it. They are currently working on a fix with Netflix for this, and will notify us when this problem is solved.


----------



## Radtech51

Audiofiler said:


> Few questions for owners..
> 
> How do you check what FW version the set currently has? I believe that 2.17 is the latest still if not mistaken.
> 
> I had my set calibrated by Kevin Miller and noticed that Film Mode is set to Standard for Calmodes and set to High on 3D mode. I am pretty sure that changing the Film Mode preference does not affect the calibration or color, correct? Film mode on high looked pretty SOE'd. I set to off in 3D mode and it looked much better. Do people with a calibrated set prefer to leave film mode off for Directv as well?
> 
> More details on my new set and the long journey to come.


At a quick glance I notice that my ISF modes are locked and won't allow me to play around, however I'll check and see this weekend if I can at least view the motion settings for you. :rubeyes:


----------



## Audiofiler

Radtech51 said:


> At a quick glance I notice that my ISF modes are locked and won't allow me to play around, however I'll check and see this weekend if I can at least view the motion settings for you. :rubeyes:


Thanks Rad.

I want to make sure that 2.17 FW is on my unit. Do you know how to check this in the menu system? I found a number sequence that starts with 217 but am not sure if denotes the FW ver.

Also, Kevin calibrated THX to look identical to ISF Night mode. Last night, I was watching Dtv in THX mode, and this is where I noticed that Film Mode was set to 'Standard'. I will go back and check if ISF Day/Night has Film Mode pre-set or locked out as well. In calibrated 3D mode, Film Mode was already set at 'High' but I did not care for it. I set Film Mode to 'Off' in 3D Mode. I presume that this does not interfere with the calibration, correct?

Is there a way to also check to see if the discreet codes were installed as well? I presume that the latest FW is set as well as the discreet codes but was just making sure.


----------



## Radtech51

Audiofiler said:


> Thanks Rad.
> 
> I want to make sure that 2.17 FW is on my unit. Do you know how to check this in the menu system? I found a number sequence that starts with 217 but am not sure if denotes the FW ver.
> 
> Also, Kevin calibrated THX to look identical to ISF Night mode. Last night, I was watching Dtv in THX mode, and this is where I noticed that Film Mode was set to 'Standard'. I will go back and check if ISF Day/Night has Film Mode pre-set or locked out as well. In calibrated 3D mode, Film Mode was already set at 'High' but I did not care for it. I set Film Mode to 'Off' in 3D Mode. I presume that this does not interfere with the calibration, correct?
> 
> Is there a way to also check to see if the discreet codes were installed as well? I presume that the latest FW is set as well as the discreet codes but was just making sure.


Kevin also calibrated my ELITE, my THX Picture mode was also calibrated as well. We should have identical settings so I'll check tonight and get back to you on those questions. 

PS: As for checking the firmware update or version if memory serves you select the option in the menu, INITIAL SETUP > then you can > Check for Updates. ld dude:
Here is a screen shot I've posted before showing you the menu.


----------



## DJG

Audiofiler said:


> Thanks Rad.
> 
> I want to make sure that 2.17 FW is on my unit. Do you know how to check this in the menu system? I found a number sequence that starts with 217 but am not sure if denotes the FW ver.
> 
> Also, Kevin calibrated THX to look identical to ISF Night mode. Last night, I was watching Dtv in THX mode, and this is where I noticed that Film Mode was set to 'Standard'. I will go back and check if ISF Day/Night has Film Mode pre-set or locked out as well. In calibrated 3D mode, Film Mode was already set at 'High' but I did not care for it. I set Film Mode to 'Off' in 3D Mode. I presume that this does not interfere with the calibration, correct?
> 
> Is there a way to also check to see if the discreet codes were installed as well? I presume that the latest FW is set as well as the discreet codes but was just making sure.


Audiofiler, any FW from 2.15 on has the discrete power codes. You can check the FW version by going to Menu / Information / Identification - this will display a number, and the first three digits are the FW version: 217 = 2.17.

No, none of those features affect the calibration, but they sure affect how the image looks .

In order to change any of those settings in the ISF modes you need to run some software like ControlCAL on a PC and connect to the Elite via network or RS-232 serial, or get the secret key to unlock the ISF modes from the service menu (I don't have the service menu key, I use ControlCAL).

I use Motion Enhancement = 120Hz Low and Film Mode Advanced low, and have not noticed any weirdness, but as always YMMV ... The one thing you can change in ISF modes from the Picture menu is the Intelligent Variable Contrast mode. I'm currently using Advanced Low in combination with some unconventional Backlight, Contrast and Gamma in my ISF settings to minimize the pulsing symptom with a look pretty much like the straight ISF with Local Dimming, though I lose a tad of black level but not a significant ammount - the PQ is awesome and the pulsing almost non-existent.


----------



## Audiofiler

DJG said:


> Audiofiler, any FW from 2.15 on has the discrete power codes. You can check the FW version by going to Menu / Information / Identification - this will display a number, and the first three digits are the FW version: 217 = 2.17.
> 
> No, none of those features affect the calibration, but they sure affect how the image looks .
> 
> In order to change any of those settings in the ISF modes you need to run some software like ControlCAL on a PC and connect to the Elite via network or RS-232 serial, or get the secret key to unlock the ISF modes from the service menu (I don't have the service menu key, I use ControlCAL).
> 
> I use Motion Enhancement = 120Hz Low and Film Mode Advanced low, and have not noticed any weirdness, but as always YMMV ... The one thing you can change in ISF modes from the Picture menu is the Intelligent Variable Contrast mode. I'm currently using Advanced Low in combination with some unconventional Backlight, Contrast and Gamma in my ISF settings to minimize the pulsing symptom with a look pretty much like the straight ISF with Local Dimming, though I lose a tad of black level but not a significant ammount - the PQ is awesome and the pulsing almost non-existent.


Thanks, I confirmed the FW.

I can't verify if Film mode was set in the ISF modes, though. I don't think that Kevin would calibrate ISF modes with one of the Film Mode settings that manifests any undesireable picture characteristics such as SOE.

Can anyone that has had Kevin calibrate their Elite possibly comment on Film Mode settings that Kevin dialed in to their set?


----------



## DJG

I'm actually surprised Sharp locked out some of those features that have nothing to do with the actual ISF calibration settings. They really should be left up to the user, as one may want to change them depending on the current content.


----------



## Rukk

Aiight Let me try this again: Owners and calibrators which do you prefer: the 10 point option or the "general" (low mid low middle mid high high) settings? Why? Also if you prefer the 10 point option what's your methodology on setting them?

Read more: ElitePRO-60X5FD and PRO-70X5FD Discussion Thread - Page 218 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


----------



## DJG

The ten-point white balance obviously gives you a more tailored grey scale. You should look up white papers in the web sites for calibration software to get insights into the calibration process, as there are many aspects involved.

http://store.spectracal.com/support/knowledge.html

http://www.chromapure.com/colorscience.asp


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> Thanks, I confirmed the FW.
> 
> I can't verify if Film mode was set in the ISF modes, though. I don't think that Kevin would calibrate ISF modes with one of the Film Mode settings that manifests any undesireable picture characteristics such as SOE.
> 
> Can anyone that has had Kevin calibrate their Elite possibly comment on Film Mode settings that Kevin dialed in to their set?


I can't recall the exact stating that Kevin used, but using ControlCal I did disengage all film settings.


----------



## Radtech51

THX Picture Mode Settings.

Intelligent Variable Contrast
[Local Dimming On]

OPC [Off]

Backlight
[STD] -16 - +16

Contrast [+32]

Brightness [+1]

Color [0]

Tint [0]

Sharpness [0]

Advanced

C.M.S.-Hue
R [0]
Y	[-2]
G	[+4]
C	[0]
B	[-3]
M	[+6]

C.M.S.-Saturation
R	[0]
Y	[-5]
G	[+2]
C	[+8]
B	[+1]
M	[0]

C.M.S.-Value
R	[+5]
Y	[+2]
G	[-2]
C	[-13]
B	[+8]
M	[-2]

Color Temp.
10 Point Setting [ON]

Position [+1]
R Gain	[+15]
G Gain	[-4]
B Gain	[0]

Position [+2]
R Gain	[+6]
G Gain	[-8]
B Gain	[-15]

Position [+3]
R Gain	[+6]
G Gain	[-5]
B Gain	[-15]

Position [+4]
R Gain	[0]
G Gain	[-4]
B Gain	[-18]

Position [+5]
R Gain	[0]
G Gain	[-4]
B Gain	[-19]

Position [+6]
R Gain	[0]
G Gain	[-3]
B Gain	[-18]

Position [+7]
R Gain	[-1]
G Gain	[-5]
B Gain	[-19]

Position [+8]
R Gain	[0]
G Gain	[-6]
B Gain	[-19]

Position [+9]
R Gain	[0]
G Gain	[-5]
B Gain	[-20

Position [+10]
R Gain	[0]
G Gain	[0]
B Gain	[-15]

Motion Enhancement
[120Hz Low]

Precision Color Plus	
[Off]

Active Contrast
[Off]

Gamma Adjustment
[0]

Film Mode
[Off]

Digital Noise Reduction
[Off]


----------



## Radtech51

Great day one for the HD Shootout, I'm looking forward to day two! I wonder what the surprise will be? :bigsmile:

PS: I'd like to have seen the LCD's in the center and the Plasma's on the sides because of the off-axis viewing it doesn't effect Plasma's as much, overall great show Robert! lddude:


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Great day one for the HD Shootout, I'm looking forward to day two! I wonder what the surprise will be? :bigsmile:
> 
> PS: I'd like to have seen the LCD's in the center and the Plasma's on the sides because of the off-axis viewing it doesn't effect Plasma's as much, overall great show Robert! lddude:


So who won in day 1 Rad?


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Just came back from the shootout. It was a great event as always. I just want to thank Robert Zohn, his family, and everyone involved for such an informative event. I have to give it to Panasonic's VT50. It's really the whole package. There were some anomalies that I've seen which were brought up on motion which I knew were an issue for the elite. When I watch MSG's scrolling text on the bottom of the screen whether in ISF day night or THX, it still was not smooth even on 120 low. When I put it in game mode, all issues then disappeared. Apparently after discussion with a few of the guys, there is an issue where you turn off all advanced settings, but technically, there is still some processing. Game mode is the only mode where the processing fully gets deaded. Another example of the weird anomaly is watching basketball where you see a player pass the ball from the top right to the bottom left of the screen. What happens is a juttery cut up image flowing across the screen. It's so weird. Anywho, I got some other details like possible elite in March 2013 at 80" and 4K.


----------



## Ken Ross

So Mike, did you think the picture on the 50 was better than the Elite. I figured with all the bad press the Elite's received with the cyan error, the deck was stacked against it this year. I was fully expecting the push toward the Panny. 

I'd love to see that 80" Elite. Depending on pricing, that may well be on my radar. 

BTW, I can't say I've seen that motion issue. It's funny at the last shootout the motion was only praised. Gotta love how these things change.


----------



## Audiofiler

Any word on an update for the pulsing at the shoot out for the Elite?


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> Any word on an update for the pulsing at the shoot out for the Elite?
> 
> I have watched just two movies and see it more often than I presumed already.


Are you using either THX or ISF modes?


----------



## Audiofiler

Ken Ross said:


> Are you using either THX or ISF modes?


Kevin set THX the same as ISF Night on my set. I just watched Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol and saw the pulsing. I was not looking for it either. I was watching in THX mode.. I will switch to ISF Night and see if the pulse is visible with that mode.

By the way, I spoke to Kevin earlier today about film mode. He sets film mode at Standard when calibrating. The standard setting deals only with the pull down rate when watching certain material such as directtv. Since my set has THX mode the Same as ISF Night, I can disable that setting if I wish in that mode.


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> Kevin set THX the same as ISF Night on my set. I just watched Mission Impossible Ghost Protocol and saw the pulsing. I was not looking for it either. I was watching in THX mode.. I will switch to ISF Night and see if the pulse is visible with that mode.
> 
> By the way, I spoke to Kevin earlier today about film mode. He sets film mode at Standard when calibrating. The standard setting deals only with the pull down rate when watching certain material such as directtv. Since my set has THX mode the Same as ISF Night, I can disable that setting if I wish in that mode.


Does the THX mode look exactly the same as your ISF mode? I thought that even loading the same settings in THX mode wouldn't result in the same picture as THX due to different default values, but I could be wrong. Did he do an entirely new calibration in THX mode?

When Kevin initially set my film mode to Standard, I showed him a motion anomaly that didn't exist with mode set to off. I recall him being surprised, but he did mention he used it for pull down. Yet we saw no issue with it off.


----------



## Audiofiler

Ken Ross said:


> Does the THX mode look exactly the same as your ISF mode? I thought that even loading the same settings in THX mode wouldn't result in the same picture as THX due to different default values, but I could be wrong. Did he do an entirely new calibration in THX mode?
> 
> When Kevin initially set my film mode to Standard, I showed him a motion anomaly that didn't exist with mode set to off. I recall him being surprised, but he did mention he used it for pull down. Yet we saw no issue with it off.


Kevin did an entire calibration in THX mode VS just touching it up. At a casual glance, the modes look the same,however, it is hard to gage because going back and forth requires flipping through all the other picture modes. And doing so changes the picture multiple times, which makes it a bit harder to do an AB comparison.

What is the anomaly you observed in Std mode that caused you to disable It? And did you see the error in just 3:2 content or also with Blu Ray 1080p material as well? I found a few of your posts on another forum describing some stutter with standard mode. Can you pm me the directions on how to disable standard in film mode in the ISF modes please?

Does your set exhibit any slight pulsing in both THX and ISF modes? I recall someone saying that their Kevin-calibrated unit did not pulse at all. I was banking on that feedback and purchased the elite on that statement.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> So who won in day 1 Rad?


I think you know my opinion buddy, I didn't see anything yet to outmatch the ELITE. :rubeyes:


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

I thought the Pannys color was the best. The black levels seemed pretty close, but not as good as the Elite. As far as motion is concerned, the guy from the UK made the Elite look terrible particularly when getting a 1080i signal which you'd use while watching TV. What I found interesting was that that the Elite reps ran out pretty much after the event which annoyed me. I wanted to speak with them. As far as the pulsing which was brought up in the event, the VP said it was greatly reduced and didn't see it necessary to continue pursuing a further fix. I think he ate his words alittle later when running motion patterns.


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I thought the Pannys color was the best. The black levels seemed pretty close, but not as good as the Elite. As far as motion is concerned, the guy from the UK made the Elite look terrible particularly when getting a 1080i signal which you'd use while watching TV. What I found interesting was that that the Elite reps ran out pretty much after the event which annoyed me. I wanted to speak with them. As far as the pulsing which was brought up in the event, the VP said it was greatly reduced and didn't see it necessary to continue pursuing a further fix. I think he ate his words alittle later when running motion patterns.


Motion and Pulsing are two different things, as for the motion patterns go no display will ever pass 100% of them. Test patterns are almost never seen or reproduced in actual viewing content unless it's a very major issue which it is not in the ELITE's case, so I question the reasoning at times. You need to remember that it comes down to actual viewing experience also, what the experts see and what we see are often two different things and remember the experts sure love there numbers and charts. I don't claim to be an expert like them but I trust my eyes and I would tell you if I saw anything out of whack. For example the flickering on the 96Hz refresh rate for the VT50 Plasma was very obvious to me. I found it very distracting to watch and was wondering why they didn't make that a bigger topic. :gulp:


----------



## schj98

Also keep in mind the problems he showed with de-interlacing content are easily corrected when using an external video processor, or an AVR with a high quality up conversion processor.

Now I agree a TV this expensive should handle this correctly out of the box but honestly how many who bought an ELITE didn’t also buy better external video processing equipment?


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> Kevin did an entire calibration in THX mode VS just touching it up. At a casual glance, the modes look the same,however, it is hard to gage because going back and forth requires flipping through all the other picture modes. And doing so changes the picture multiple times, which makes it a bit harder to do an AB comparison.
> 
> What is the anomaly you observed in Std mode that caused you to disable It? And did you see the error in just 3:2 content or also with Blu Ray 1080p material as well? I found a few of your posts on another forum describing some stutter with standard mode. Can you pm me the directions on how to disable standard in film mode in the ISF modes please?
> 
> Does your set exhibit any slight pulsing in both THX and ISF modes? I recall someone saying that their Kevin-calibrated unit did not pulse at all. I was banking on that feedback and purchased the elite on that statement.


I haven't observed any pulsing in ISF or THX modes. I believe the issue we saw with Standard mode was some kind of motion anomaly...I can't recall what it is, but Kevin saw it when I pointed it out to him.

To disable anything in ISF modes beyond LD, you'll need to have something like ControlCal.


----------



## Ken Ross

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I thought the Pannys color was the best. The black levels seemed pretty close, but not as good as the Elite. As far as motion is concerned, the guy from the UK made the Elite look terrible particularly when getting a 1080i signal which you'd use while watching TV. What I found interesting was that that the Elite reps ran out pretty much after the event which annoyed me. I wanted to speak with them. As far as the pulsing which was brought up in the event, the VP said it was greatly reduced and didn't see it necessary to continue pursuing a further fix. I think he ate his words alittle later when running motion patterns.


I'm curious Mike how he made 1080i look so bad. Since the vast majority of programming I watch on FIOS is 1080i (with the exception of some 720p channels), I'd think I would have seen something that looked so terrible. I haven't and can't recall owners mentioning anything like that. So I'm really wondering what he did to 'accomplish' that.

My attitude is if we don't see it unless under special test conditions, I don't worry about it.


----------



## Ken Ross

Radtech51 said:


> Motion and Pulsing are two different things, as for the motion patterns go no display will ever pass 100% of them. Test patterns are almost never seen or reproduced in actual viewing content unless it's a very major issue which it is not in the ELITE's case, so I question the reasoning at times. You need to remember that it comes down to actual viewing experience also, what the experts see and what we see are often two different things and remember the experts sure love there numbers and charts. I don't claim to be an expert like them but I trust my eyes and I would tell you if I saw anything out of whack. For example the flickering on the 96Hz refresh rate for the VT50 Plasma was very obvious to me. I found it very distracting to watch and was wondering why they didn't make that a bigger topic. :gulp:


Yup. That was my point exactly Rad. If there was such a huge issue as was demonstrated under test conditions, owners would be screaming loud, long and continuously. I just don't think this is an issue for regular programming content. As I've said countless times, we watch TV, not test patterns. If the issue isn't seen with regular programming, let the test instruments knock themselves out.


----------



## Ken Ross

schj98 said:


> Also keep in mind the problems he showed with de-interlacing content are easily corrected when using an external video processor, or an AVR with a high quality up conversion processor.
> 
> Now I agree a TV this expensive should handle this correctly out of the box but honestly how many who bought an ELITE didn’t also buy better external video processing equipment?


Most? You don't need an external video processor to solve this issue. It's just not observable with typical programming content. I've never heard any owner complain about this.


----------



## Audiofiler

Ken Ross said:


> I haven't observed any pulsing in ISF or THX modes. I believe the issue we saw with Standard mode was some kind of motion anomaly...I can't recall what it is, but Kevin saw it when I pointed it out to him.
> 
> To disable anything in ISF modes beyond LD, you'll need to have something like ControlCal.


I understand that much. I saw on another forum where someone helped direct you on how exactly to accomplish this. If you or anyone else could help provide the instructions on how to do it via LAN wired connection, it would be great. If you have that email or PM still, feel free to forward it to me.


----------



## schj98

Ken Ross said:


> Most? You don't need an external video processor to solve this issue. It's just not observable with typical programming content. I've never heard any owner complain about this.


All I was saying is that _*IF*_ you are concerned about the issue it is easily correctible.

In addition I think it’s fair to say most people who would buy this level of television will have a high end AVR with a built in high quality upscaler.

I was in no way trying to say the ELITE is not a good television I own one and love it.


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> I understand that much. I saw on another forum where someone helped direct you on how exactly to accomplish this. If you or anyone else could help provide the instructions on how to do it via LAN wired connection, it would be great.
> 
> Part of the reason that I had the set calibrated for me was to have all of these types things already taken care of and settled for me.
> 
> I am not the most technical person but if some one could PM me the directions or share here, I would appreciate it. Ken, I saw where Turbe on another board may have showed you how when you asked. If you don't mind helping me out with the same request, it would be awesome.


Audio, it's not a straighforward approach and you should really contact Turbe on this. It's very difficult to walk through the process unless you're actually next to me. Much can go wrong if you're not careful!


----------



## JimP

schj98 said:


> Also keep in mind the problems he showed with de-interlacing content are easily corrected when using an external video processor, or an AVR with a high quality up conversion processor.
> 
> Now I agree a TV this expensive should handle this correctly out of the box but honestly how many who bought an ELITE didn’t also buy better external video processing equipment?


Maybe for front projection but for flat screens, I doubt very many would buy a high quality external processor.


----------



## schj98

JimP said:


> Maybe for front projection but for flat screens, I doubt very many would buy a high quality external processor.


As I said video processor OR AVR with upscaler and I do think most would have the AVR.


----------



## Audiofiler

Ken Ross said:


> Audio, it's not a straighforward approach and you should really contact Turbe on this. It's very difficult to walk through the process unless you're actually next to me. Much can go wrong if you're not careful!


Thanks Ken!

I am seeing some DSE when there is horizontal panning with the sky near the top of the screen. 

I have quickly experienced several of the minor quirks of the Elite and they are quite easily detectable and rather distracting. More obvious than people described, these are. 

Have not seen any pulsing in Game of Thrones yet but have seen several shots with sideways motion where the sky or clouds shows discoloration and DSE.


----------



## Ken Ross

Audio, I'm not 100% DSE-free either, but it's at least as good as my Pioneer Kuro was...probably better.


----------



## Audiofiler

Ken Ross said:


> Audio, I'm not 100% DSE-free either, but it's at least as good as my Pioneer Kuro was...probably better.


Yes, the DSE is better (less of it) on the Elite than on my Kuro 151 and my d8000 and vt30.

I have a question on the Elite. It seems like when the camera angle changes when watching a Blu Ray, tha occasionally the new image and material has a super-slight fade in on stutter/lag for the new image to show fully. I don't know if I used the right words to describe it, but is what I am seeing the inherent differences of plasma vs LCD with respect to refresh or some other characteristic?


----------



## Radtech51

Looks like I messed the HD shootout today for part two, I thought it was going to be at the same time. :sneeky:

PS: Anyone know what the surprise was that Robert was talking about yesterday? :blink:


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> Yes, the DSE is better (less of it) on the Elite than on my Kuro 151 and my d8000 and vt30.
> 
> I have a question on the Elite. It seems like when the camera angle changes when watching a Blu Ray, tha occasionally the new image and material has a super-slight fade in on stutter/lag for the new image to show fully. I don't know if I used the right words to describe it, but is what I am seeing the inherent differences of plasma vs LCD with respect to refresh or some other characteristic?


Can't say I've noticed that Audio.

Rad, I only tuned in very late in the car, so I don't know what it was.


----------



## schj98

Radtech51 said:


> Looks like I messed the HD shootout today for part two, I thought it was going to be at the same time. :sneeky:
> 
> PS: Anyone know what the surprise was that Robert was talking about yesterday? :blink:


Dr. Larry Weber according to Robert the father of modern plasma TV


----------



## Radtech51

schj98 said:


> Dr. Larry Weber according to Robert the father of modern plasma TV


Very cool :T


----------



## lcaillo

What is DSE?


----------



## Audiofiler

Does anyone else see a slight stutter in the picture when camera angles change occasionally? It is not. All the time, though.


----------



## lcaillo

Does anyone NOT see a stutter when camera angles change on any system? Film is particularly bad about this. True 60Hz progressive video is best, but rapid movement in the frame will often push the limits of compression codecs.


----------



## Radtech51

lcaillo said:


> What is DSE?


DSE stands for Dirty Screen Effect, it varies from unit to unit and all displays have it to an extent. Some people often mistake it for poor source material and it's most noticeable for people who watch Hockey Games as the camera pans over the Ice back and forth. lddude:


----------



## DJG

I have to say in my months of watching my Elite I have seen one instance of noticeable DSE, which was probably mainly due to the source content. For that I am happy.

Pulsing / flickering is another story, as I get it in ISF and THX. I do hope they truly work it out. OTOH, I have after much experimentation and prodded by remarks in this and other forums, found a set of settings that remove it 99%, involving the IVC Advanced Low setting which I would normally abhor, but compensating with some very unconventional backlight, contrast and gamma but with an end result very close to my normal Local Dimming environment. The trade-off is a bit higher black level, though still probably the best, and a cut on the achievable bright level, but still plenty bright for me.


----------



## lcaillo

Radtech51 said:


> DSE stands for Dirty Screen Effect, it varies from unit to unit and all displays have it to an extent. Some people often mistake it for poor source material and it's most noticeable for people who watch Hockey Games as the camera pans over the Ice back and forth. lddude:


I have never heard it called that, and I don't think it is a very good description. The term would be better applied to the low level activation noise that PDPs display frequently, either due to poor alignment, poor design, or aging patterns relative to the scanning waveforms.

Panning effects are a combination of refresh rates, interpolation schemes (if any), refresh type, persistence, source type and frame rate, and encoding/decoding in compression schemes. It is very difficult to tie it to a particular display unless you test a number of displays with the same moving patterns and compare them. The problem is as soon as you change one variable, different technology displays or combinations of other variables get very hard to parse out.

By far the greatest offender with respect to garbage in panning are the compression codecs.

LCD displays tend to smear the crud that you get with film shutter limits on panning and when the horizontal or diagonal motion overruns the capacity of the codec.


----------



## dsskid

DJG said:


> I have to say in my months of watching my Elite I have seen one instance of noticeable DSE, which was probably mainly due to the source content. For that I am happy.
> 
> Pulsing / flickering is another story, as I get it in ISF and THX. I do hope they truly work it out. OTOH, I have after much experimentation and prodded by remarks in this and other forums, found a set of settings that remove it 99%, involving the IVC Advanced Low setting which I would normally abhor, but compensating with some very unconventional backlight, contrast and gamma but with an end result very close to my normal Local Dimming environment. The trade-off is a bit higher black level, though still probably the best, and a cut on the achievable bright level, but still plenty bright for me.


The pulsing was able to be reproduced at the shootout Saturday night during a moving resolution pattern test.


----------



## DJG

I saw that today but that is not the pulsing symptom, that's a motion artifact . Pulsing occurs mostly in indoor scenes with dim walls - things aren't moving, but the wall seems to breath or flicker.


----------



## Audiofiler

DJG said:


> I saw that today but that is not the pulsing symptom, that's a motion artifact . Pulsing occurs mostly in indoor scenes with dim walls - things aren't moving, but the wall seems to breath or flicker.


X2


----------



## dsskid

This definitely looked like pulsing to me. I was roughly 5 ft away.


----------



## mechman

dsskid said:


> This definitely looked like pulsing to me. I was roughly 5 ft away.


I saw it on the video feed I believe. Was it one of the HQV patterns John?


----------



## dsskid

mechman said:


> I saw it on the video feed I believe. Was it one of the HQV patterns John?


Yes. D-Nice pointed it out as well.


----------



## DJG

Again, that wasn't pulsing as we know it, that was motion artifacting. If you don't own one, you really haven't seen pulsing - it's an Elite exclusive feature .


----------



## Turbe

I believe DJG was there on Sunday to...


----------



## DJG

Indeed I was . That was motion artifacting from the 1080i conversion. The pulsing symptom doesn't really manifest in moving objects. It's from the Intelligent Variable Contrast algorithms trying to make up its mind what brightness level that region should be at, e.g. IRE level 1, 2 or somewhere in between. It's pretty much associated with the dimmer brightness levels.

It's raining heavily here so I'm working from home .


----------



## Turbe

DJG said:


> It's raining heavily here so I'm working from home .


what does that mean? "get going turbe and get those features I requested done, I'm ready to test here" ?

haha


----------



## Audiofiler

lcaillo said:


> I have never heard it called that, and I don't think it is a very good description. The term would be better applied to the low level activation noise that PDPs display frequently, either due to poor alignment, poor design, or aging patterns relative to the scanning waveforms.
> 
> Panning effects are a combination of refresh rates, interpolation schemes (if any), refresh type, persistence, source type and frame rate, and encoding/decoding in compression schemes. It is very difficult to tie it to a particular display unless you test a number of displays with the same moving patterns and compare them. The problem is as soon as you change one variable, different technology displays or combinations of other variables get very hard to parse out.
> 
> By far the greatest offender with respect to garbage in panning are the compression codecs.
> 
> LCD displays tend to smear the crud that you get with film shutter limits on panning and when the horizontal or diagonal motion overruns the capacity of the codec.


I agree with all that you said. 

However, you can still see a bit of grayish color or lack of uniformity with the right material. The Elite that I have has a small area near the top right of the screen, where, there is a slight smudge or bit of "DSE", for lack of a better term, that is visible with horizontal motion with something like the sky or clouds. I saw it on Game of Thrones on my set and then used several other video examples and could see it in the same location on the screen. I tried passages from 4 different BDs on an Oppo 93 as well as an Oppo 95 and a c6900. I also tried some Tee-Off shots from the Masters on my DVR. It is Definately visible. Just looking for some piece of mind here, as I saw where Rad is also seeing a bit of this on his set too. Not at all trying to take anything away from this beautiful display. Just commenting as a brand-new owner on several issues that I followed VERY closely in my months of research.. These same issues I discussed several times with Robert and a few respected ISF calibrators in the last 4 months or so. Just sharing and observing. 

Still also getting used to looking at an LCD vs Plasma too. I agree with Rad, in that, the effect that I described (probably poorly) above is lessened on the Elite than even my beloved Kuro (also calibrated by K Miller), so that is saying something. It looks like I may see the above effect about as often as a plasma owner may see the occasional line bleed..and maybe on the same outdoor-type scenes too.

The pulsing really needs fixed, though. It is not encouraging reading the Sharp reps response from the shoot out regarding the issue. I have the same "viewers anxiety" now viewing indoor material from a movie, etc, the same as I had with the Sammy d8000. Only now I am looking for pulsing instead of floating blacks or ABL adjustments. This kind of defect in the picture is inexcusable on a reference display of this calibre. Watching Casino Royale on BD, there were scenes with pulsing so distracting that it almost changed the mood of the scene, like something was supposed to come out of the walls and attack D Craig.


----------



## Ken Ross

Audio, fear not, every single flat panel has some degree of DSE. Some are worse than others and some people are more sensitive to it than others. My first Elite had it pretty bad and I swapped it. The one I have now is very good, although I can still see some. But it's no worse than the DSE I had on my Pioneer Kuro and probably better.


----------



## Audiofiler

Ken Ross said:


> Audio, fear not, every single flat panel has some degree of DSE. Some are worse than others and some people are more sensitive to it than others. My first Elite had it pretty bad and I swapped it. The one I have now is very good, although I can still see some. But it's no worse than the DSE I had on my Pioneer Kuro and probably better.


Thank you buddy. 

Please, no one, take what I am saying the wrong way. Just looking for other people that can relate with a similar experience. To be fair, I know that Robert and his gang QA'd my set and ran it for 100 hours before Kevin calibrated. So I am sure that they both got a pretty good look at it. Not sure what test patterns they used, and if any of those patterns or tests uncover the effect, but the set met their approval and is an Elite panel to begin with. 

How bad was it on your first set that made you know that it needed swapped out? Was it in multiple areas of the display or just very pronounced? I would like to get some idea. I noticed that it is not as visible from different viewing angles as well.


----------



## Ken Ross

On mine there was one area that resembled a darker vertical streak beginning from the top right center and extending down about 3-4". The area was about an 1" in width. When the camera panned, it was very obvious and distracting.


----------



## Audiofiler

Ken Ross said:


> On mine there was one area that resembled a darker vertical streak beginning from the top right center and extending down about 3-4". The area was about an 1" in width. When the camera panned, it was very obvious and distracting.


That is exactly where my area is too. Yikes, not sure if I should have another set of eyes look at this now. It almost looks like a smear with a more defined line where it ends on the left side, and where it kind of fades more gradually into the picture on the right side.

What does your new set look like? Is it similar and just not as pronounced?


----------



## Ken Ross

Audiofiler said:


> That is exactly where my area is too. Yikes, not sure if I should have another set of eyes look at this now. It almost looks like a smear with a more defined line where it ends on the left side, and where it kind of fades more gradually into the picture on the right side.
> 
> What does your new set look like? Is it similar and just not as pronounced?


The new one is almost unnoticeable. There is no distinct line anywhere. I was able to see that line on the first one even when the scene was static. As long as the image was bright, I was able to see that shaded area.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> Audio, fear not, every single flat panel has some degree of DSE. Some are worse than others and some people are more sensitive to it than others. My first Elite had it pretty bad and I swapped it. The one I have now is very good, although I can still see some. But it's no worse than the DSE I had on my Pioneer Kuro and probably better.


True, many people are more sensitive to it then others especially with the trained eye. I have little to no DSE on my ELITE, however my VT30 had a really bad case of it combined with really bad Vertical and horizontal banding. :rubeyes:


----------



## DYAUS

Anyone know where to find the video of the shootout? Also I know the panny won but does anyone know where to find the results? Thanks


----------



## Radtech51

DYAUS said:


> Anyone know where to find the video of the shootout? Also I know the panny won but does anyone know where to find the results? Thanks


http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...0096553444.107466.107818673444&type=1&theater


----------



## Theatredaz

schj98 said:


> Also keep in mind the problems he showed with de-interlacing content are easily corrected when using an external video processor, or an AVR with a high quality up conversion processor.
> 
> Now I agree a TV this expensive should handle this correctly out of the box but honestly how many who bought an ELITE didn’t also buy better external video processing equipment?



I agree, you definitley need a good scaler to go with the set, since the set has trouble upscaling 1080i content (failed some bluray tests)...it's worth the extra $500-600 to get an external scaler / de-interlacer to do the job right...I'm glad I have an outboard scaler (DVDO) and the picture is secure from abnormal 3:2 pulldowns that are often skipped on SD broadcasts that can actually leave the image jumbled and blurry with lots of motion blur (which is why 120hz TV's where created to solve the 3:2 pulldown done incorrectly on alot of displays) since de-interlacing is a complicated thing to do fast and efficiently.


----------



## Ken Ross

Theatredaz said:


> I agree, you definitley need a good scaler to go with the set, since the set has trouble upscaling 1080i content (failed some bluray tests)...it's worth the extra $500-600 to get an external scaler / de-interlacer to do the job right...I'm glad I have an outboard scaler (DVDO) and the picture is secure from abnormal 3:2 pulldowns that are often skipped on SD broadcasts that can actually leave the image jumbled and blurry with lots of motion blur (which is why 120hz TV's where created to solve the 3:2 pulldown done incorrectly on alot of displays) since de-interlacing is a complicated thing to do fast and efficiently.


Theatredaz, what material are you seeing issues with in 1080i? Most of the programming I watch on FIOS is 1080i and I haven't seen an issue. Are you talking about BluRay 1080i video concerts? I know those usually look pretty bad. I haven't watched something like that on the Elite, but I recall being less than impressed on my Kuro.


----------



## Radtech51

Theatredaz said:


> I agree, you definitley need a good scaler to go with the set, since the set has trouble upscaling 1080i content (failed some bluray tests)...it's worth the extra $500-600 to get an external scaler / de-interlacer to do the job right...I'm glad I have an outboard scaler (DVDO) and the picture is secure from abnormal 3:2 pulldowns that are often skipped on SD broadcasts that can actually leave the image jumbled and blurry with lots of motion blur (which is why 120hz TV's where created to solve the 3:2 pulldown done incorrectly on alot of displays) since de-interlacing is a complicated thing to do fast and efficiently.


Correct me if I'm wrong but don't all AV Receivers de-interlace automatically? I think all Blu-Ray players have that feature built in as well now days to. :gulp:


----------



## DJG

Radtech51 said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but don't all AV Receivers de-interlace automatically? I think all Blu-Ray players have that feature built in as well now days to. :gulp:


Some do better than others, could be worse or better than the Elite. Oppo has very good processing.


----------



## Theatredaz

Most Tv's De-interlace and convert 1080i to 1080p just fine...I feel that for people who have ghosting ..color smearing or fast movement blurr issues are the ones that have TV's that don't de-interlace the 1080i signal that well resulting in jagged edges and all of the above mentioned> broadcasters have jumpy 3:2 pulldowns, this is done because time is critical for shows to end at the exact time...so frames are removed to speed up the broadcast so it ends exactly at 1:00pm etc...this dropping of frames creates irregular pulldowns that results in possible color smear ghosting/ motion blur etc...a scaler corrects these dropped frames and outputs the signal at a constant 3:2 pulldown...the image remains constant and smooth throughout the entire viewing ....in order to pickup the odd 3:1 or even 2:2 pulldown you need a smart and fast chip that's able to pick up the variable pulldowns (which is quite a trick for the average HDTV's internal hardware to do)...so a more sophisticated scaler is required> aside from de-interlacing...scaling is also tricky....,most TV's only upscale Per Frame coming in...that is the frame in it's original 480i resolution and the display scales to 1080p ...a high power scaler looks at the frame then examines every single pixel and scales every pixel to match the TV's pixels~ per pixel scaling allows for a much finer scaled resolution of the original 480i signal...resulting in an image that has more focused photo realism than the previous more foggy looking signal (most scalers have detail enhancement that works well to improve the bluryness associated with 480i content. I've got a few DVD's that look absolutly stunning scaled to 1080p...I could post some pics if need be.

Another issue and drawback is color scaling is necessary as well...most color is output @ 4:1:0 or something like that that means every color in each from is done 4X for blue 1X for red and 0 for green...a scaler doubles the color to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 which triples the color per frame...this results in something similar to 120hz..except without the SOE> the colors smearing which tend to be noticed more when there is motion or fast moving objects are NON existent because you eyes can't optically pick up the tripled color resolution per frame/or pixel (Ithink)...in the end you get a much more stable and consistent picture.

In the end if you picked up a set for more than $4,000> you'd be wasting your money without a scaler to improve the image. Even with a fine TV like the Elite...it still managed to fail a 1080i bluray Test> but most bluray players already scale to 1080p(so it's not a huge optical issue)...but will become an issue with Standard set-top boxes that only output at 1080i maximum.


----------



## jwcole1224

*Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*

I'm on my third 60" Elite, the 1st would not calibrate in ISF mode, the 2nd would not calibrate in any mode and had serious screen uniformity problems. On my the 3rd set, screen uniformity is much improved,(i.e) acceptable, but not perfect, calibration has not yet been attempted.

I got a call from my calibrator this afternoon, he just returned from a calibration road trip and wanted to to tell me he calibrated 2 70" Elites and they calibrated wonderfully. He told me bluntly, the 70" performed much better than my 60".

I've run "break-in" slides to judge screen uniformity on 5 different 60" Elites, 3 of my own and 2 at Best Buy.
All of them had screen uniformity issues, especially when viewed off-angle. I've also tried 2 70" Elites, both at Best Buy and they both had nearly perfect uniformity, with very good viewing angles.

From my small sampling, the 70" appears to be a clearly superior display.
Could this be? Any thoughts?

Thanks


----------



## highendallday

Ok guys, I have been searching everywhere on the internet to find the demo disc for the sharp elite. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of it.


----------



## Ken Ross

jwcole1224 said:


> From my small sampling, the 70" appears to be a clearly superior display.
> Could this be? Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks


Not sure, but it seemed to me my friend's 70 looked better out of the box than my 60 out of the box. He hasn't gotten his calibrated, so that aspect I can't say.


----------



## Radtech51

Theatredaz said:


> Most Tv's De-interlace and convert 1080i to 1080p just fine...I feel that for people who have ghosting ..color smearing or fast movement blurr issues are the ones that have TV's that don't de-interlace the 1080i signal that well resulting in jagged edges and all of the above mentioned> broadcasters have jumpy 3:2 pulldowns, this is done because time is critical for shows to end at the exact time...so frames are removed to speed up the broadcast so it ends exactly at 1:00pm etc...this dropping of frames creates irregular pulldowns that results in possible color smear ghosting/ motion blur etc...a scaler corrects these dropped frames and outputs the signal at a constant 3:2 pulldown...the image remains constant and smooth throughout the entire viewing ....in order to pickup the odd 3:1 or even 2:2 pulldown you need a smart and fast chip that's able to pick up the variable pulldowns (which is quite a trick for the average HDTV's internal hardware to do)...so a more sophisticated scaler is required> aside from de-interlacing...scaling is also tricky....,most TV's only upscale Per Frame coming in...that is the frame in it's original 480i resolution and the display scales to 1080p ...a high power scaler looks at the frame then examines every single pixel and scales every pixel to match the TV's pixels~ per pixel scaling allows for a much finer scaled resolution of the original 480i signal...resulting in an image that has more focused photo realism than the previous more foggy looking signal (most scalers have detail enhancement that works well to improve the bluryness associated with 480i content. I've got a few DVD's that look absolutly stunning scaled to 1080p...I could post some pics if need be.
> 
> Another issue and drawback is color scaling is necessary as well...most color is output @ 4:1:0 or something like that that means every color in each from is done 4X for blue 1X for red and 0 for green...a scaler doubles the color to 4:2:2 or 4:4:4 which triples the color per frame...this results in something similar to 120hz..except without the SOE> the colors smearing which tend to be noticed more when there is motion or fast moving objects are NON existent because you eyes can't optically pick up the tripled color resolution per frame/or pixel (Ithink)...in the end you get a much more stable and consistent picture.
> 
> In the end if you picked up a set for more than $4,000> you'd be wasting your money without a scaler to improve the image. Even with a fine TV like the Elite...it still managed to fail a 1080i bluray Test> but most bluray players already scale to 1080p(so it's not a huge optical issue)...but will become an issue with Standard set-top boxes that only output at 1080i maximum.


Thanks for that great post, I'm using a Vsx-52 Elite AV Receiver so I'm sure it's fixing everything as I've never seen any issues. :bigsmile:


----------



## Radtech51

highendallday said:


> Ok guys, I have been searching everywhere on the internet to find the demo disc for the sharp elite. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of it.


I'll see if I can pick one up this weekend and get back to you on that. lddude:


----------



## Radtech51

Ok it's off topic I know but still this is exciting and everyone should be excited about the upcoming OLED technology! Just in the new LG 55'' OLED TV.

http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1337841820

PS: I'm waiting for the new 4k resolution 80'' OLED Elite! It will be worth waiting for if it ever comes. :bigsmile:


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> Ok it's off topic I know but still this is exciting and everyone should be excited about the upcoming OLED technology! Just in the new LG 55'' OLED TV.
> 
> http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1337841820
> 
> PS: I'm waiting for the new 4k resolution 80'' OLED Elite! It will be worth waiting for if it ever comes. :bigsmile:


My guess in 2013.


----------



## mechman

Radtech51 said:


> Ok it's off topic I know but still this is exciting and everyone should be excited about the upcoming OLED technology! Just in the new LG 55'' OLED TV.
> 
> http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1337841820
> 
> PS: I'm waiting for the new 4k resolution 80'' OLED Elite! It will be worth waiting for if it ever comes. :bigsmile:


Ahem....

Official thread :wave:


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> My guess in 2013.


I hope your right my friend but I wasn't expecting it to be that soon! :gulp:


----------



## Theatredaz

*Re: Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*



jwcole1224 said:


> I'm on my third 60" Elite, the 1st would not calibrate in ISF mode, the 2nd would not calibrate in any mode and had serious screen uniformity problems. On my the 3rd set, screen uniformity is much improved,(i.e) acceptable, but not perfect, calibration has not yet been attempted.
> 
> I got a call from my calibrator this afternoon, he just returned from a calibration road trip and wanted to to tell me he calibrated 2 70" Elites and they calibrated wonderfully. He told me bluntly, the 70" performed much better than my 60".
> 
> I've run "break-in" slides to judge screen uniformity on 5 different 60" Elites, 3 of my own and 2 at Best Buy.
> All of them had screen uniformity issues, especially when viewed off-angle. I've also tried 2 70" Elites, both at Best Buy and they both had nearly perfect uniformity, with very good viewing angles.
> 
> From my small sampling, the 70" appears to be a clearly superior display.
> Could this be? Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks


* You are correct about the differences> as much as I don't want to reduce my 60" Elite panel I have...I had the 70" model first> and it was FAR superior in screen uniformity and pitcher blacks out of the box> almost night and day difference unfortunately...I returned it because it was too large for my sitting distance of 6-8ft....and since I plan on gaming I don't like the fact I would have to sit 6ft minimum before pixelation occurs...so I traded for the 60" Elite model which itself is still a marvel despite slightly more illuminated blacks in a pitch dark room> which actually is reduced in User mode (which I plan to use when I calibrate it professionaly etc)


----------



## Radtech51

*Re: Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*



Theatredaz said:


> * You are correct about the differences> as much as I don't want to reduce my 60" Elite panel I have...I had the 70" model first> and it was FAR superior in screen uniformity and pitcher blacks out of the box> almost night and day difference unfortunately...I returned it because it was too large for my sitting distance of 6-8ft....and since I plan on gaming I don't like the fact I would have to sit 6ft minimum before pixelation occurs...so I traded for the 60" Elite model which itself is still a marvel despite slightly more illuminated blacks in a pitch dark room> which actually is reduced in User mode (which I plan to use when I calibrate it professionaly etc)


Very interesting, I know that the 70'' has more local-dimming zones but it has to for the size difference. Other then that one would think that both set's should be about the same picture wise. According to CNET reviews they usually review the 60'' telling everyone that their judgement should apply to the larger sizes of the same model as well, so they obviously don't think it makes any difference. I suppose if the 60'' and 70'' screens are cut or manufactured differently or come from a different location there could be some small varience between the displays anything is possable I supose I just don't know. :sneeky: 
As for myself I own the 70'' and I've not thought to compare it to the 60'' perhaps I'll look into this if more cases come forth with this issue. Hum... I think Ken has the 60'' and he was looking into getting the 70'' if memory serves me correctly, let's see what he to say about it. :gulp:


----------



## Theatredaz

*Re: Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*

Get the 70" if you can> I don't know...Here's what I think about the physics of the Panels>>>>I think something happens with the voltage when the Panel shrinks...there's too much (spare voltage on the LED's) on a small panel so it's not used up and it glows ambiantly> the large display has more LED zones so it sucks up the voltage quick or requires more voltage to power, this effect creates a dimmer display in pitch dark room because the voltage is distibuted enough to dimm the led's more...this is exactly how I would describe the difference when I first saw noticed it etc.


----------



## Radtech51

*Re: Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*



Theatredaz said:


> Get the 70" if you can> I don't know...Here's what I think about the physics of the Panels>>>>I think something happens with the voltage when the Panel shrinks...there's too much (spare voltage on the LED's) on a small panel so it's not used up and it glows ambiantly> the large display has more LED zones so it sucks up the voltage quick or requires more voltage to power, this effect creates a dimmer display in pitch dark room because the voltage is distibuted enough to dimm the led's more...this is exactly how I would describe the difference when I first saw noticed it etc.


Well if there is any truth to this discusion at all then I'd sure have wished they would have put the 70'' up at the HD Shootout instead of the 60'' :rolleyesno:

PS: I'm just glad they didn't use the same 60'' as last year, according to Kevin that one had issues for sure. Come to think of it I have heard of more issues coming from 60''s hum... :sneeky:


----------



## DJG

highendallday said:


> Ok guys, I have been searching everywhere on the internet to find the demo disc for the sharp elite. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of it.


I'm not aware of any Elite-specific demo disc. DVE HD Basics and the Spears & Munsil discs are excellent. I particularly like the DVE disc.


----------



## Ken Ross

*Re: Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*



Radtech51 said:


> I think Ken has the 60'' and he was looking into getting the 70'' if memory serves me correctly, let's see what he to say about it. :gulp:


Probably won't get it for awhile Rad, but you're right, I am looking at the 70 down the road when we move. I'll then have the idea opportunity to compare.


----------



## Ken Ross

*Re: Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*



Theatredaz said:


> Get the 70" if you can> I don't know...Here's what I think about the physics of the Panels>>>>I think something happens with the voltage when the Panel shrinks...there's too much (spare voltage on the LED's) on a small panel so it's not used up and it glows ambiantly> the large display has more LED zones so it sucks up the voltage quick or requires more voltage to power, this effect creates a dimmer display in pitch dark room because the voltage is distibuted enough to dimm the led's more...this is exactly how I would describe the difference when I first saw noticed it etc.


Not sure about that aspect of the differences between the two sizes. I haven't seen my friend's 70 in total darkness, but my 60 is so so close to true black with the lights off, I'd be surprised if there is any significant difference. There may be bigger differences in screen uniformity and such, but I'm not sure about the black levels. On letterbox movies the bars come so close to blending into the bezel, I'm not sure how much better the 70 does...but who knows?


----------



## jwcole1224

*Re: Elite PRO-60X5FD Vs. PRO-70X5FD*



Theatredaz said:


> Get the 70" if you can> I don't know...Here's what I think about the physics of the Panels>>>>I think something happens with the voltage when the Panel shrinks...there's too much (spare voltage on the LED's) on a small panel so it's not used up and it glows ambiantly> the large display has more LED zones so it sucks up the voltage quick or requires more voltage to power, this effect creates a dimmer display in pitch dark room because the voltage is distibuted enough to dimm the led's more...this is exactly how I would describe the difference when I first saw noticed it etc.


At least, maybe, I'm not imagining things. 
I bought my set at Best Buy and they've been terrific, replacing it twice, no questions asked.

My calibrator wrote up a report on calibration issues for my first two sets and I sent that off to Sharp about 2 weeks ago, haven't heard back. I also gave a copy to the Best Buy store manager and he offered to send their calibrator out for free to give it a try. 

I agreed. It will be interesting to see what happens. My calibrator will drop by and verify the calibration afterwords. It appears that my Best Buy uses pretty good equipment, but we'll see.

Hopefully, this third set will calibrate. Honestly, I would be happy.
But part of me wonders what would happen if BB's calibrator runs into the same problems. :innocent:
Maybe they'll give me a very good deal on the 70".:devil:


----------



## Ken Ross

Jwcole, without naming your calibrator, are you sure of both his technical prowess and his understanding of the Elite? I say this only because I haven't heard of anyone not being able to calibrate these units successfully. Now you've had 2 Elites in that category with the same calibrator. it does make you wonder.


----------



## lcaillo

There is nothing wrong with naming names. Any professional calibrator should be willing to explain his findings. We do not expect anyone to publish specific techniques nor details of settings, but knowing who gets results and who does not is very reasonable expectation. One must keep in mind that there are defective sets, but there are also lots of calibrators who do not have the resources, experience, nor the proper equipment to get the best results.

The best calibration professionals are on private forums and lists where they discuss and share techniques for getting the most out of a particular product. The vast majority of "calibrators" are not connected to pros in the same way.


----------



## jwcole1224

Ken Ross said:


> Jwcole, without naming your calibrator, are you sure of both his technical prowess and his understanding of the Elite? I say this only because I haven't heard of anyone not being able to calibrate these units successfully. Now you've had 2 Elites in that category with the same calibrator. it does make you wonder.


I would agree, this has to be unusual and I have wondered.
But, while I'm not an expert, I've seen nothing in his work-flow to make me doubt his abilities.

On his last visit, he had a conference call while at my home with two well known members
of the calibration community, in the end they could not come up with a solution.

My first set he actually did calibrate successfully in THX mode, but ISF modes would not, grey scale was funky. 
The second set, even THX would not calibrate.

This brought me to the 60" vs 70" discussion.
Strange goings on at the Circle K.


----------



## Richard in SF

*Pixelation & the Indy 500*

I have had my ISF calibrated 60" Elite for 2-3 months now, and I love the picture, BUT I have noticed a lot more pixelation than my five year old Sammy DLP had. It was expecially bad during and after the Indy 500 today. I started recording on my Tivo Premiere at 12 EDT/9 PDT. At the 3:20 and 3:21 marks the shot of Dario's gloves was almost obliterated by pixelation.

I don't know if a degraded signal can come from the Tivo (which I have had since the model came out). I have been willing to accept some pixelation on an LED set, but this was really bad. I'm planning to call Elite next week, but looking for other input.

Thanx,
Richard


----------



## jwcole1224

*Re: Pixelation & the Indy 500*



Richard in SF said:


> I have had my ISF calibrated 60" Elite for 2-3 months now, and I love the picture, BUT I have noticed a lot more pixelation than my five year old Sammy DLP had. It was expecially bad during and after the Indy 500 today. I started recording on my Tivo Premiere at 12 EDT/9 PDT. At the 3:20 and 3:21 marks the shot of Dario's gloves was almost obliterated by pixelation.
> 
> I don't know if a degraded signal can come from the Tivo (which I have had since the model came out). I have been willing to accept some pixelation on an LED set, but this was really bad. I'm planning to call Elite next week, but looking for other input.
> 
> Thanx,
> Richard


I have seen it on my cable TV (Comcast) feed once in a great while, but never on another source such as my blu-ray player. 

If you don't see it while playing a Blu-Ray, I would bet your Tivo is the source of the problem.
My Two Cents....


----------



## DJG

*Re: Pixelation & the Indy 500*

I was watching the Monte Carlo F1 Grand Prix today and had no pixelation whatsoever, nor do I ever, other than when rain breaks up my DirecTV signal once in a blue moon. Check the source for that.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Richard in SF said:


> I have had my ISF calibrated 60" Elite for 2-3 months now, and I love the picture, BUT I have noticed a lot more pixelation than my five year old Sammy DLP had. It was expecially bad during and after the Indy 500 today. I started recording on my Tivo Premiere at 12 EDT/9 PDT. At the 3:20 and 3:21 marks the shot of Dario's gloves was almost obliterated by pixelation.
> 
> I don't know if a degraded signal can come from the Tivo (which I have had since the model came out). I have been willing to accept some pixelation on an LED set, but this was really bad. I'm planning to call Elite next week, but looking for other input.
> 
> Thanx,
> Richard


Unfortunately Comcast here in the Bay Area suffers from alot of pixelation due to compression on a lot of their HD offerings. I highly doubt it's coming from your Elite.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

jwcole1224 said:


> I have seen it on my cable TV (Comcast) feed once in a great while, but never on another source such as my blu-ray player.
> 
> If you don't see it while playing a Blu-Ray, I would bet your Tivo is the source of the problem.
> My Two Cents....


+1


----------



## buzzard767

Richard in SF said:


> I have had my ISF calibrated 60" Elite for 2-3 months now, and I love the picture, BUT I have noticed a lot more pixelation than my five year old Sammy DLP had. It was expecially bad during and after the Indy 500 today. I started recording on my Tivo Premiere at 12 EDT/9 PDT. At the 3:20 and 3:21 marks the shot of Dario's gloves was almost obliterated by pixelation.


We must be the only race fans here. It was the content, not your TV. I did the same double take you did when the gloves literally fell apart - viewed on a Samsung HL67A750 LED DLP (being replaced by a 65VT50 this week.....)


----------



## mechman

buzzard767 said:


> We must be the only race fans here.


There are more. :wave: Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until retirement to watch most of the races. And I'm more of a NASCAR guy.


----------



## buzzard767

mechman said:


> There are more. :wave: Unfortunately, I'll have to wait until retirement to watch most of the races. And I'm more of a NASCAR guy.


Being retired is the easy part. Training your wife to allow your passion is another matter. My entire day yesterday was dedicated to Monaco, Indianapolis, and Charlotte. :coocoo:


----------



## Weaselboy

*Re: Pixelation & the Indy 500*



Richard in SF said:


> It was expecially bad during and after the Indy 500 today.


In this case at least, I would say it was the source material. I watched the race on Time Warner cable with my 60" Elite and thought the same thing. I even thought I had elected the SD ABC channel by mistake. I don't know what ABC did, but their Indy 500 coverage was barely HD. Just awful.

Switched to some other HD channels immediately afterward and everything looked great.


----------



## Goldwing2001

GeneWildersHair said:


> Unfortunately Comcast here in the Bay Area suffers from alot of pixelation due to compression on a lot of their HD offerings. I highly doubt it's coming from your Elite.


I agree, it's coming from Comcast signal. TiVo would not cause pixelation.


----------



## lcaillo

Goldwing2001 said:


> I agree, it's coming from Comcast signal. TiVo would not cause pixelation.


Why not?


----------



## rab-byte

TiVo could cause pixilation but like all cable/sat boxes the feed is the more likely culprit. That is to say unless it's a consistent issue across all channels programing and commercials then the feed is more likely the issue rather then the box.


----------



## Richard in SF

Thank you all; especially buzzard (Boing?) since you are watching on what was my old technology. Since getting the Elite, I think I have seen more pixelation, but probably I'm just looking harder for motion artifacts, and I have become more atuned to a very superior picture.

btw, our daughter was home for the weekend, and I pulled out the 3D version of the last(?) Harry Potter. I think the 3D effects may have been better than Avatar! I haven't checked any 3D forums, but I think this set may well be better than a theater. NO PIXELS SEEN.


----------



## buzzard767

Richard in SF said:


> Since getting the Elite, I think I have seen more pixelation, but probably I'm just looking harder for motion artifacts, and I have become more atuned to a very superior picture.


Higher contrast makes everything, including faults, more visible.




> buzzard (Boing?)


Yes, Boeing. Retired ORD-Euro intern'l captain


----------



## Radtech51

buzzard767 said:


> Higher contrast makes everything, including faults, more visible.


Very strangely I've seen an opposite effect, when using just (Local Dimming On) I can sometimes notice an artifact I can only describe as a shimmer or ripple effect in the background of an image. The artifact is usually on a wall or other surface in the background behind the actors in the scene and looks like this. http://youtu.be/ZNquN_mTYiI
In this video try keep your eye on the background behind the picture of the man, I paused scene and then un-paused the scene to show you it's full effect.

Recently I noticed this effect although very (Rare) and much more reduced to the point of it being almost not noticeable, in a Blu-Ray movie. I hadn't noticed it before other then when I'm watching Cable TV, I have ATT U-Verse. I had thought it to be caused by the compression from the Cable Source because that's when I see it 99.99% of the time. It's very interesting to note that when I enable the Intelligent Variable Contrast to (IVC-Low), I can no longer see the artifact. :sneeky: 

So good news is it's a rather easy fix, for a rather minor artifact, but not any less interesting to be sure. Until I get more information on this Artifact I'll just think of it as something inherent to the Local Dimming technology in conjunction with the variable compression formats. :rubeyes:


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Radtech51 said:


> Very strangely I've seen an opposite effect, when using just (Local Dimming On) I can sometimes notice an artifact I can only describe as a shimmer or ripple effect in the background of an image. The artifact is usually on a wall or other surface in the background behind the actors in the scene and looks like this. http://youtu.be/ZNquN_mTYiI
> In this video try keep your eye on the background behind the picture of the man, I paused scene and then un-paused the scene to show you it's full effect.
> 
> Recently I noticed this effect although very (Rare) and much more reduced to the point of it being almost not noticeable, in a Blu-Ray movie. I hadn't noticed it before other then when I'm watching Cable TV, I have ATT U-Verse. I had thought it to be caused by the compression from the Cable Source because that's when I see it 99.99% of the time. It's very interesting to note that when I enable the Intelligent Variable Contrast to (IVC-Low), I can no longer see the artifact. :sneeky:
> 
> So good news is it's a rather easy fix, for a rather minor artifact, but not any less interesting to be sure. Until I get more information on this Artifact I'll just think of it as something inherent to the Local Dimming technology in conjunction with the variable compression formats. :rubeyes:


You are seeing more of the pulsing issue that is still there with just local dimming on. When you enable IVC, it is gone.


----------



## Radtech51

GeneWildersHair said:


> You are seeing more of the pulsing issue that is still there with just local dimming on. When you enable IVC, it is gone.


I wouldn't choose to describe it as a pulsing but more of a shimmer or ripple effect to my eyes, it's as if you took your finger and pushed on the LCD screen itself and caused a ripple in the image. It's as if the image on the screen behaves like it's made out of water, the wave / shimmer goes across the entire background causing the effect I see, if that makes any sense? This might be one and the same artifact you are mentioning I'm not sure, however whatever we choose to call this artifact it's effect is definitely causing an adjustment in the contrast their by making it visible. :rubeyes:


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Radtech51 said:


> I wouldn't choose to describe it as a pulsing but more of a shimmer or ripple effect to my eyes, it's as if you took your finger and pushed on the LCD screen itself and caused a ripple in the image. It's as if the image on the screen behaves like it's made out of water, the wave / shimmer goes across the entire background causing the effect I see, if that makes any sense? This might be one and the same artifact you are mentioning I'm not sure, however whatever we choose to call this artifact it's effect is definitely causing an adjustment in the contrast their by making it visible. :rubeyes:


That is still part of the whole pulsing issue we all see. Seen it numerous times when looking for pulsing.


----------



## Radtech51

GeneWildersHair said:


> That is still part of the whole pulsing issue we all see.


Ah ok. :blink:


----------



## Rukk

On a happy front I will (finally) get my baby (the 70" beast) calibrated Saturday by Ray Coronado who was recommended by Mr Zohn. I can't wait!:clap:


----------



## Radtech51

Rukk said:


> On a happy front I will (finally) get my baby (the 70" beast) calibrated Saturday by Ray Coronado who was recommended by Mr Zohn. I can't wait!:clap:


Nice!:sn:


----------



## Radtech51

It's been way to quiet lately, Robert where are you buddy? Are you still loving your 70'' Elite or have to exchanged it for the VT50 yet?  j/k :rofl:


----------



## DJG

Radtech51 said:


> It's been way to quiet lately, Robert where are you buddy? Are you still loving your 70'' Elite or have to exchanged it for the VT50 yet?  j/k :rofl:


Naaah, I don't think so .

I have spent hours trying settings that reduce the pulsing, and found some that really help, with a bit of compromise over a straight calibration in the blacks and highlights but still giving excellent PQ, just not as good as could be but still to me equal or better than the rest.

It involves as you might suspect the brightness, contrast, backlight and gamma settings in very specific combinations beginning with the calibrated settings. The problem is that they probably will vary from set to set, and a tick up or down here or there makes a difference.

What I also found is that they can be in the Local Dimming setting, not necessarily the IVC Advanced Low which has somewhat higher blacks, where I found myself dialing in a backlight of 8 and still getting decent highlights! Just the blacks were not quite as good as a 22 in Local Dimming mode. I should say these are ISF settings, which range from 0-100 unlike the +- settings of the THX mode.

Yes, I strive for improvement when I see it's possible, and yes I do need to get out more . But I do enjoy tinkering with 'tronics.


----------



## Rukk

Ah YEAH!! Got the set (the 70" beast) calibrated Saturday courtesy of Ray Coronado representin' SoCalHT and I must say "INCREDIBLE"!!!! The picture on the Elite pre cal is spectacular but post cal...it is SPECTACULAR! 

Special shout out to Ray Coronado! The session(and that's exactly what it was) with him was as educational and informative as it was amazing to see the process. I had questions lined up to ask Ray after he was done but never got to ask because he covered everything during the calibration! He doesn't just come into your home, work on your set while you go about your business. You're right there and he's informing you of what things are, what they do, what he's doing and why he's doing it and what the desired result should be. If you're out in southern California I strongly recommend him.

Special thanks to Mr Robert Zohn. Thank you for suggesting Ray. He told me how the two of you met and to tell you hello as well.

Well I'm off to (take a guess) test drive my reborn 70" beast!


----------



## DJG

^^^ Much Happy Viewing!


----------



## RayJr

Rukk said:


> Ah YEAH!! Got the set (the 70" beast) calibrated Saturday courtesy of Ray Coronado representin' SoCalHT and I must say "INCREDIBLE"!!!! The picture on the Elite pre cal is spectacular but post cal...it is SPECTACULAR!
> 
> Special shout out to Ray Coronado! The session(and that's exactly what it was) with him was as educational and informative as it was amazing to see the process. I had questions lined up to ask Ray after he was done but never got to ask because he covered everything during the calibration! He doesn't just come into your home, work on your set while you go about your business. You're right there and he's informing you of what things are, what they do, what he's doing and why he's doing it and what the desired result should be. If you're out in southern California I strongly recommend him.
> 
> Special thanks to Mr Robert Zohn. Thank you for suggesting Ray. He told me how the two of you met and to tell you hello as well.
> 
> Well I'm off to (take a guess) test drive my reborn 70" beast!


Thank you very much for the kind words......You are very Welcome.
Enjoy your display.

RayJr


----------



## Radtech51

Rukk said:


> Ah YEAH!! Got the set (the 70" beast) calibrated Saturday courtesy of Ray Coronado representin' SoCalHT and I must say "INCREDIBLE"!!!! The picture on the Elite pre cal is spectacular but post cal...it is SPECTACULAR!
> 
> Special shout out to Ray Coronado! The session(and that's exactly what it was) with him was as educational and informative as it was amazing to see the process. I had questions lined up to ask Ray after he was done but never got to ask because he covered everything during the calibration! He doesn't just come into your home, work on your set while you go about your business. You're right there and he's informing you of what things are, what they do, what he's doing and why he's doing it and what the desired result should be. If you're out in southern California I strongly recommend him.
> 
> Special thanks to Mr Robert Zohn. Thank you for suggesting Ray. He told me how the two of you met and to tell you hello as well.
> 
> Well I'm off to (take a guess) test drive my reborn 70" beast!


Grats! :clap:


----------



## chansensturm

Want to tap into this forum's expertise. I have a question for those of you who've calibrated their sets themselves using SpectraCal or ChromaPure. In particular, on the assumption that none of us really want to spend >$10k on a Klein K-10 analyzer, what kind of results can one expect with a consumer colorimeter such as the x-rite display 3 "pro" ?

Given the that this really is a consumer device, is it actually worth the investment ? Does one obtain significantly better results than just "eyeballing" the display using calibration disks and color filters ? And how close would such a set up come compared to using a professional calibrator ?

Given that a lot of professionals earn their living this way (much respect btw), I'd be most interested in hearing the experience of non-calibrators (e.g., those of you who've spent <$1k on their analyzers, not >$10k).

Any of you DIYers out there who care to share their experiences ? Thank you.


----------



## DJG

My DIY calibrated Elite using an i1 Pro retail meter looks way better than non-calibrated. But I have spent many hours on it, which I enjoy doing, have the time to do, and may not be your typical set owner . The only way to get experience is to do things many times, and you need to do some homework reeading to get some familiarity with the process and software. I found CalMAN together with ControlCAL a very user-friendly combination. I have also come to appreciate the professionals, as it is in the end part science, part art.


----------



## chansensturm

Thx. Definitely not a typical set owner over here either ;-) 

So were you able to detect difference between calibrating the old "analog" method (eyes + test discs), and using the i1 Pro + CalMAN ? I assume the latter gave you significantly better results ?


----------



## DJG

Very much indeed. The grey scale is much better, as are the colors. The 10 point white balance is a big help. I get better visual resolution / apparent sharpness, I think because the luminance gradients are handled more accurately. But my mind may be making it all up .


----------



## Radtech51

The Elite continues to stun me every time with it's amazing contrast ratio and deep inky blacks, just when I think it can't get any better it does! I was watching a move last night called "Trinity The Atomic Bomb Move." All I can say is wow, it felt like I was actually seeing nuclear explosions go off in my living room! The Elite is uniquely able to put out the retina burring brightness and brilliant full screen whites necessary to pull off this effect. During the explosions of brilliant light and then seeing the mushroom effect with the deep blacks that faded into the bezel and then back to brilliant mass of vibrant color as the mushroom cloud expanded was just stunning to behold but also a little frightning. I meen (talk about a total pitch black feeling after a flash a brilliant light) then fadding again to deep inky black scenes with fire and smoke, it was just incredible and was enough to make anyone awe! :rubeyes:


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> The Elite continues to stun me every time with it's amazing contrast ratio and deep inky blacks, just when I think it can't get any better it does! I was watching a move last night called "Trinity The Atomic Bomb Move." All I can say is wow, it felt like I was actually seeing nuclear explosions go off in my living room! The Elite is uniquely able to put out the retina burring brightness and brilliant full screen whites necessary to pull off this effect. During the explosions of brilliant light and then seeing the mushroom effect with the deep blacks that faded into the bezel and then back to brilliant mass of vibrant color as the mushroom cloud expanded was just stunning to behold but also a little frightning. I meen (talk about a total pitch black feeling after a flash a brilliant light) then fadding again to deep inky black scenes with fire and smoke, it was just incredible and was enough to make anyone awe! :rubeyes:


Hey Rad, do you know what the total ftls output your display was calibrated to?
John


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> Hey Rad, do you know what the total ftls output your display was calibrated to?
> John


Excellent question, I'm not sure why?


----------



## RayJr

Radtech51 said:


> Excellent question, I'm not sure why?


I am just guessing that DSSKID is asking to get a reference of what your display is actually doing..output wise.
The light output reading would be the large "Y" at 100% white in you calibration report.

Hope this helps
RayJr


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> Excellent question, I'm not sure why?





RayJr said:


> I am just guessing that DSSKID is asking to get a reference of what your display is actually doing..output wise.
> The light output reading would be the large "Y" at 100% white in you calibration report.
> 
> Hope this helps
> RayJr


Correct Ray.


----------



## Radtech51

RayJr said:


> I am just guessing that DSSKID is asking to get a reference of what your display is actually doing..output wise.
> The light output reading would be the large "Y" at 100% white in you calibration report.
> 
> Hope this helps
> RayJr


Y at 100W reads 0.3287


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> Y at 100W reads 0.3287


x + y are your coordinates for D65. Big "Y" = light output.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> x + y are your coordinates for D65. Big "Y" = light output.


x read 0.3121 @ 100w


----------



## RayJr

Radtech51 said:


> x read 0.3121 @ 100w


Getting there...

should look like this
x = 0.3121
y = 0.3287
Y = ?...this is the light output

RayJr


----------



## Radtech51

RayJr said:


> Getting there...
> 
> should look like this
> x = 0.3121
> y = 0.3287
> Y = ?...this is the light output
> 
> RayJr


@ 100w

y = 101.357
x = 0.3121
y = 0.3287
de94_L = 28.1002


----------



## mechman

The big Y is the 101.357. In fL that would be 29.58.


----------



## RayJr

mechman said:


> The big Y is the 101.357. In fL that would be 29.58.


You are correct........sir

the 101.357 is candelas per square meter.

RayJr


----------



## dsskid

Thanks guys. Thats what i suspected. So the black level is giving the illusion on super bright whites. 

It does have awesome black levels. I didn't think Ray would calibrate a display and leave it at light searing brightness.

Radtech, enjoy your maximized, Ray Jr calibrated display. He's one of the best, and has helped me with questions numerous times.


----------



## Radtech51

dsskid said:


> Thanks guys. Thats what i suspected. So the black level is giving the illusion on super bright whites.
> 
> It does have awesome black levels. I didn't think Ray would calibrate a display and leave it at light searing brightness.
> 
> Radtech, enjoy your maximized, Ray Jr calibrated display. He's one of the best, and has helped me with questions numerous times.


Kevin Miller calibrated my display.


----------



## dsskid

Radtech51 said:


> Kevin Miller calibrated my display.


Sorry, I thought it was Ray. Kevin is awesome as well.


----------



## Rukk

dsskid said:


> Thanks guys. Thats what i suspected. So the black level is giving the illusion on super bright whites.
> 
> It does have awesome black levels. I didn't think Ray would calibrate a display and leave it at light searing brightness.
> 
> Radtech, enjoy your maximized, Ray Jr calibrated display. He's one of the best, and has helped me with questions numerous times.



I second that!!!


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Here's my post calibration report for ISF day in case you were curious. BTW, I ordered an Oppo BluRay Player, the BDP-93. :bigsmile: I'm done with the Pioneer BDP-43FD. It's horribly slow and sometimes requires me to restart it because of freezing. (Even after all the firmware updates!) :rolleyesno:


----------



## Rukk

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Here's my post calibration report for ISF day in case you were curious. BTW, I ordered an Oppo BluRay Player, the BDP-93. :bigsmile: I'm done with the Pioneer BDP-43FD. It's horribly slow and sometimes requires me to restart it because of freezing. (Even after all the firmware updates!) :rolleyesno:


Oh it's on now! The Oppo teamed with the Elite is an UNBEATABLE combination, especially with the set calibrated! Take it from me, I know!

I just viewed your report. Your temp and balance look to be spot on.


----------



## powermonkey24

I am a little late to the party, but need some information. I have been through the sony 929xbr or whatever model number it was, the Sammy pn64e8000, one of the sharp 70 847OU, and I am currently an owner of a 65vt50..so far defently the best of the bunch. I am missing those five extra inches though, and want to to know if it would be worth it to take back the vt for the 70 pro. Do these sets suffer from the clouding that the lesser sharps suffer from? Do they have matte screens or are they gloss? Any insight and information would be appreciated!:T


----------



## Radtech51

powermonkey24 said:


> I am a little late to the party, but need some information. I have been through the sony 929xbr or whatever model number it was, the Sammy pn64e8000, one of the sharp 70 847OU, and I am currently an owner of a 65vt50..so far defently the best of the bunch. I am missing those five extra inches though, and want to to know if it would be worth it to take back the vt for the 70 pro. Do these sets suffer from the clouding that the lesser sharps suffer from? Do they have matte screens or are they gloss? Any insight and information would be appreciated!:T


I've personally compared the 70'' Elite to the VT50 and I'd have to say I like the Elite better, it's Deep Inky Black levels and contrast are visually better. However the big question is if it's worth the extra cost at this point in the game? I'd probably have to ask you several questions before qualifying you, but in short if the extra cost is not an issue for you I'd say go for it. If you can wait though the rumor is the new Elite should be out with an 80'' version so you may wish to jump in then. My Elite has no clouding, banding or flash-lighting of any kind, it's very Plasma like in many aspects. lddude:


----------



## powermonkey24

Radtech51 said:


> I've personally compared the 70'' Elite to the VT50 and I'd have to say I like the Elite better, it's Deep Inky Black levels and contrast are visually better. However the big question is if it's worth the extra cost at this point in the game? I'd probably have to ask you several questions before qualifying you, but in short if the extra cost is not an issue for you I'd say go for it. If you can wait though the rumor is the new Elite should be out with an 80'' version so you may wish to jump in then. My Elite has no clouding, banding or flash-lighting of any kind, it's very Plasma like in many aspects. lddude:


Right on...thanks for the information! 80 would be way too big for my space and the wife would not have it. Good to hear that your Elite is plasma like, that is what I am looking for. I love the 70 inch size it is perfect for my viewing distance and room size. Any truth to the rumor that the 70inch is a better performer then the 60inch? All I have ever seen displayed at bb is the 70 inch and off angel viewing and all those other hiccups that plague leds seem to be not there...thanks for the information.


----------



## Radtech51

powermonkey24 said:


> Any truth to the rumor that the 70inch is a better performer then the 60inch? All I have ever seen displayed at bb is the 70 inch and off angel viewing and all those other hiccups that plague leds seem to be not there...thanks for the information.


Kevin Miller did post this response over at HDJ. lddude:
http://www.highdefjunkies.com/showt...-Owners-Thread&p=340980&viewfull=1#post340980



> "Hi theatrdaz,
> 
> Actually the reason the 70-inch has better black uniformity is because it has more LED zones ( I believe it is 330 vs. 280 for the 60-inch). Also the 4x4 vs. the 5x5 is an interesting debate. The 5 x 5 is the default setting for the Quantum Data HD signal generator, which we used and interesting also for the video forge. I believe both are valid although for consistency with last year's shootout I think we should have used 4 x 4. We will of course do that in the next shootout. In any case all the panels were measured the same way so it was a valid test. It seems though that the 5 x 5 introduced more white bleed in the Elite probably due to the location of the LED blocks. I hope this helps clarify the issue.


----------



## powermonkey24

Good news for me.. The 70 is the only option if I go that route..60 would be way too small at this point. I have had a 65 inch tv from one company or the other for 3 years now..would be really hard going down!


----------



## Theatredaz

It would be nice to see a 4K Elite!!

I`ve heard-read that 4K resolutions allow you to sit closer to the screen without seeing pixelation as you get closer!...I had the 70` Elite and it was an awesome very large display...unfortunately it was too big where I had to sit at least 9FT away to watch SD content and some Film content( image was poorly articulated)...sitting 5-7 ft would not do the screen justice to watch...regardless of wonderfully large the screen was...my sitting area allows for maximum 7ft...so I switched to the 60` model.

* If Sharp Elite reps do decide to make a 4K Elite 70-80...I hope they do it right...meaning how they scale the image from 1080p etc...JVC and Sony use their own technology that does not involve standard scaling teqniques because it actually complicates the upscaling process (Elite does not scale 480i-1080i content properly)...what they do is they apply a second 1080p signal on top of the original creating 4K resolution from 1080p content...and it does it wonderfully that it dilutes any pixelation when sitting up close. The image is sharper and more refined and stays consitently focused when near the screen (100 screen).


----------



## lcaillo

4K will not necessarily have anything to do with pixelation. Depending on how the content is delivered, decoded, and scaled to 4k, it could be better or worse. Most pixelation is due to encoding/decoding, scaling, or other processing. What 4K would do is make SDE less of an issue at close distances, and improve resolution if signals were available in that resolution without significant compression trade-offs.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Great post ^^. This one should be engraved at the opening of anything to do with these subjects! Nice work lcaillo.

Theatredaz, ^^^^ two up; me too! I want to see my 80" 4K 2013 Elite! 

-Robert


----------



## uwkid

Has anyone used these type of HDMI cables from Monoprice (Product I.D. 3659) on their Elite. I want to mount on wall with this cord but really afraid the space on the back of the elite is not big enough for the round part of the connector. Looks like it may hit the back of the TV when trying to plug in. Also afraid these cable won't "flex" enough. They are the silver plated 24 AWG cables. I need to run through wall and am looking for best possible connection.

Just curious if anyone has any experience with these on the Elite. I want to get this thing hung.


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Great post ^^. This one should be engraved at the opening of anything to do with these subjects! Nice work lcaillo.
> 
> Theatredaz, ^^^^ two up; me too! I want to see my 80" 4K 2013 Elite!
> 
> -Robert


Hey Robert did you ever get the PM I sent you?

PS: I'd also like to get the Elite's discrete codes for the Logitech Harmony® One Advanced Universal Remote. :bigsmile:


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hey Radtech, Email me and I'll email back a reply with the instructions on how to install the discrete codes for power "On" and "Off".

-Robert


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> Hey Radtech, Email me and I'll email back a reply with the instructions on how to install the discrete codes for power "On" and "Off".
> 
> -Robert


Thanks my friend!:sn:


----------



## Radtech51

Just started a thread on "When do you think well see stunning 4k OLED displays?", come share your thoughts! 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...see-stunning-4k-oled-displays.html#post529041


----------



## mechman

Big Picture Big Sound review of the 70" Elite



> The final generation Pioneer Elite Kuro sets were, and still are in my opinion, the best of breed in the plasma category, and while recent LED/LCD models are getting very close to matching their picture quality as regards to color accuracy and black levels, the Kuro plasma still beats them in some ways, the most notable of which is a truly wide viewing angle.
> 
> In the race to make LED/LCD sets as skinny as possible, full array backlighting has, for the most part, fallen by the wayside in favor of LED edgelighting. That's not the case with the Sharp Elite sets, which are true full array LED backlit LCD models, and the large number of LEDs arrayed behind the LCD imaging panels helps to ensure that there's little to no visible "haloing".
> 
> The Sharp Elite set puts out the best picture I've yet seen from an LCD-based flat panel, with excellent color fidelity (in the THX picture mode) along with gorgeous deep blacks. It's very well equipped from a feature standpoint, and it provided thoroughly enjoyable viewing in both 2D and 3D modes.
> 
> The only downside here is the price: Suggested Retail Price of $5999 for the 60-inch model and $8499 for the 70-inch model under review. Compared to Pioneer's first generation Elite plasma set (a 50" 720p model that had an SRP of $20,000), the new Sharp Elite sets are a comparable bargain, but they're still about double what premium competitive LED/LCD models currently go for. But even so, if you want the best picture quality that LED/LCD TV has to offer, it's hard to do better than the Elite.


----------



## Robert Zohn

Excellent review ^^ by Big Picture Big Sound. Nailed it.

-Robert


----------



## Ken Ross

mechman said:


> Big Picture Big Sound review of the 70" Elite


I guess some (not me) would categorize this reviewer as yet another 'clueless' professional reviewer. Why? Because he claims the Elite has 'excellent color fidelity'. Ah, how naive some of these guys are.


----------



## lcaillo

Does it not have excellent color fidelity?


----------



## powermonkey24

Yes countless professionals and videophiles are clueless. I guess if you watch the test pattern station 24/7, then it would look imperfect, but with normal viewing material, I see no problems.


----------



## Ken Ross

lcaillo said:


> Does it not have excellent color fidelity?


In my eyes it does. Looking at things I know and recognize, objects for which the color is very familiar, yes it most certainly does. As far as some calibrator's opinions I've seen, adjectives such as 'very poor' were used. Quite a disparity between pro reviews and many videophiles and those of some calibrators. Pick your camp. I saw one calibrator recently say that the Elite _totally_ changes the mood of some movies. Please.

And yes, as powermonkey has said, I suppose if you watch test patterns & color charts all day, the color is less than perfect (of course there are no perfect displays), but in the real world the color looks fabulous to me.


----------



## DJG

It has pleasing, natural-looking attractive colors


----------



## Hutchinshouse

I'll second that. My TV (60" Elite) was calibrated via Calman 4. I've yet to see any colors look unnatural. Also, having the best black level and contrast on the market is a bonus. Many people have told me, looking at my TV is like looking out a window. There's a reason the Elite was king of HDTV in 2011. It was also the only TV in the 2012 shootout to win top honors in multiple categories. I'd like to see next year's shootout conceal the TV manufacture's names until voting is closed. The shootout wall should conceal TV bezels and badging. This way preconceived notions are null and void. That would make for a fun shootout.


----------



## mechman

Hutchinshouse said:


> I'd like to see next year's shootout conceal the TV manufacture's names until voting is closed. The shootout wall should conceal TV bezels and badging. This way preconceived notions are null and void. That would make for a fun shootout.


That would be difficult as they are constantly scrolling through menus and showing different picture modes, etc. :huh:


----------



## Hutchinshouse

Yeah, I guess that is true. Just a thought. I guess the bottom line, any TV at the shootout would be a great TV to own. It's the best of the best. Fully digging my Elite.


----------



## lcaillo

Ken Ross said:


> In my eyes it does. Looking at things I know and recognize, objects for which the color is very familiar, yes it most certainly does. As far as some calibrator's opinions I've seen, adjectives such as 'very poor' were used. Quite a disparity between pro reviews and many videophiles and those of some calibrators. Pick your camp. I saw one calibrator recently say that the Elite _totally_ changes the mood of some movies. Please.
> 
> And yes, as powermonkey has said, I suppose if you watch test patterns & color charts all day, the color is less than perfect (of course there are no perfect displays), but in the real world the color looks fabulous to me.


The calibration reports that I have seen would indicate pretty good color fidelity. I have not seen one that has been calibrated but what I have seen looked pretty good, even with just some visual tweaking.


----------



## DJG

It's the luminance tracking that is the concern. You can get very good calibration at 70% (aside from the known cyan thing). But as the luminance level moves away from the 70% calibration, the measurements show deviations cropping up. Having said that, the effect at the visual level doesn't seem evident, as even the grey scale seems pretty uniform. 

This was pretty evident at the shootout. The grey scale looked like a grey scale, no coloring, but side by side you could tell the difference from the other TVs in the cyan range when a suitable scene showed up.


----------



## lcaillo

In the absence of a comparison, I suspect that it is unlikely any but the most picky observer would notice. We lived with far worse in the majority of displays for years, which could not even decode primaries correctly, and today, many sets still do not.

As I have said before on this issue, perspective is warranted.


----------



## DJG

^^^ Very much so!


----------



## Radtech51

lcaillo said:


> In the absence of a comparison, I suspect that it is unlikely any but the most picky observer would notice. We lived with far worse in the majority of displays for years, which could not even decode primaries correctly, and today, many sets still do not.
> 
> As I have said before on this issue, perspective is warranted.


+100


----------



## JClam

Anyone else get an email from ELITE Corporation [[email protected]]? I'm not sure what to make of this...any thoughts? See below...
Clam
*****
Thanks to the generous warranty on your Elite LCD TV you’ve never had to worry about unexpected repair bills. Why start now? Maximize the life of your product by purchasing an Elite LCD TV Service Plan. It’s simple! Just give our agents a call at 1-866-712-9887 and provide your invitation number and credit card information so they can assist with setting up your Service Plan. 

Remember our extensive nationwide service network consists of factory trained technicians who are committed to keeping your product in good working order. After all, no one knows more about your LCD TV than we do! 

Enjoy peace of mind with these valuable benefits: 
• One Low, Up-Front Price 
• No Deductible or Hidden Charges 
• Replacement Coverage1 
• Nationwide Service Network 
• Factory Trained Technicians 

Be sure to extend the protection on your LCD TV with an Elite LCD TV Service Plan. Hurry! Offer ends August 27, 20122. 

Sincerely,

Maria Perez
Manager, Elite LCD TV Service Plans


----------



## DJG

A few have mentioned getting them, some I believe have bought the extension. I have until September so I'm waiting a bit. Give them a call and see what they say.


----------



## Radtech51

I think I have 5 years on mine total, 4 from BB plus the 1 on top of the manufacture warrantee. I figure that should be good enough, if something goes wrong after that time then I'll just buy a new display.


----------



## rab-byte

Radtech51 said:


> I think I have 5 years on mine total, 4 from BB plus the 1 on top of the manufacture warrantee. I figure that should be good enough, if something goes wrong after that time then I'll just buy a new display.


The BB plan overlaps the existing one. It's not in addition to. I only know because I work for them.


----------



## Radtech51

rab-byte said:


> The BB plan overlaps the existing one. It's not in addition to. I only know because I work for them.


Thanks for clairfying that, you'd think they were on commision or something. :coocoo:


----------



## rab-byte

Radtech51 said:


> Thanks for clairfying that, you'd think they were on commision or something. :coocoo:


I wish. Money is one good motivator to know your product.


----------



## Radtech51

I'll try and post some more pictures for everyone very soon, I actually picked up a great blu-ray disc cheep this weekend that acts as some great demo material for showing off the Elite's reference blacks etc. :wave:


----------



## highendallday

Where is the cheapest you can find the Disney WOW Blu Ray?


----------



## DJG

In case any owners are interested, I have Elite ISF calibration settings in this thread in the ControlCAL forum:

DJG's Elite ISF Calibration


----------



## DJG

I was wondering what owners have their Backlight set to. Do you leave it at 50 ISF/ Standard THX?


----------



## Radtech51

All Images were taken in ISF-Night Mode, Calibrated by Kevin Miller. 
Images were taken with a Canon EOS 60D in Manual Mode, Please Enjoy.


----------



## mechman

Looking good! :T


----------



## Radtech51

mechman said:


> Looking good! :T


Thanks, I just wish everyone could see the real thing in person. The Elite continues to impress me with no end in sight, I'm always left in awe over how beautiful the picture is. :sn:


----------



## boxpilot

New to the forum and looking for some help. After going back and forth between the VT50 and the Elite decided to pull the trigger on the Elite 60". In the stores the 70" picture was flawless. Now that I have my set, I'm having major second thoughts. The screen uniformity is terrible! Screen looks dirty and I can see dark rectangular patterns in the background. Plus getting major haloing in certain scenes. The problems occur in all picture modes. Set is only a few weeks old so no calibration has been completed other than the CNET settings. Occurs with local dimming on and off. Contacted Sharp with my issues and they immediately sent out a replacement. I refused the replacement because it was worse than my original set. Now waiting for a third set. I've included screen shots of my issues. Can any one tell me what I'm seeing and is this common to the Elites? Thanks!


----------



## Radtech51

boxpilot said:


> New to the forum and looking for some help. After going back and forth between the VT50 and the Elite decided to pull the trigger on the Elite 60". In the stores the 70" picture was flawless. Now that I have my set, I'm having major second thoughts. The screen uniformity is terrible! Screen looks dirty and I can see dark rectangular patterns in the background. Plus getting major haloing in certain scenes. The problems occur in all picture modes. Set is only a few weeks old so no calibration has been completed other than the CNET settings. Occurs with local dimming on and off. Contacted Sharp with my issues and they immediately sent out a replacement. I refused the replacement because it was worse than my original set. Now waiting for a third set. I've included screen shots of my issues. Can any one tell me what I'm seeing and is this common to the Elites? Thanks!


I take a closer look at your pictures when I get home, I'm acutaly on my laptop right now. onder: Just a thought, but you said in the stores the 70'' was flawless have you considered going that route instead of the 60''? Keep us posted and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you on lucky number 3. :rubeyes:


----------



## boxpilot

Radtech51 said:


> Just a thought, but you said in the stores the 70'' was flawless have you considered going that route instead of the 60''?


Unfortunately I'm spaced challenged. 60 is totally maxing it out. :crying:


----------



## Radtech51

boxpilot said:


> Unfortunately I'm spaced challenged. 60 is totally maxing it out. :crying:


So when do you get your next replacement?


----------



## DJG

boxpilot said:


> New to the forum and looking for some help. After going back and forth between the VT50 and the Elite decided to pull the trigger on the Elite 60". In the stores the 70" picture was flawless. Now that I have my set, I'm having major second thoughts. The screen uniformity is terrible! Screen looks dirty and I can see dark rectangular patterns in the background. Plus getting major haloing in certain scenes. The problems occur in all picture modes. Set is only a few weeks old so no calibration has been completed other than the CNET settings. Occurs with local dimming on and off. Contacted Sharp with my issues and they immediately sent out a replacement. I refused the replacement because it was worse than my original set. Now waiting for a third set. I've included screen shots of my issues. Can any one tell me what I'm seeing and is this common to the Elites? Thanks!


I have some slight lack of uniformity but only noticeable once in a blue moon when panning smooth-ish white areas. No haloeing or rectangular patterns . Let's hope the third one's the charm!


----------



## boxpilot

Radtech51 said:


> So when do you get your next replacement?


Still waiting for a callback from Sharp on a delivery date. Last one took about a week.


----------



## Radtech51

boxpilot said:


> Still waiting for a callback from Sharp on a delivery date. Last one took about a week.


Ok well keep us posted, I took another look at those images you put up although without higher rez images or seeing your display in person I can't be sure what's causing it exactly. I've seen bad source material that can make a screen look like that, although I'm not saying that's what's causing your issue. In your images I see some vertical banding, screen uniformity issues and in parts what resembles DSE and some compression image artifacts as well. :nerd:

lddude: The main point here is when you get your next display make sure to try different source material, often you will never notice minor display artifacts during normal movie viewing. That's the problem with test patterns, they are good at finding issues where none matter or you never know you had. But remember no screen will ever be perfect and the test patterns are designed specifically to find them. As the old saying goes, if you go looking for issues you will most likely find some, so just be careful is all I'm saying and don't forget to try out different source material. :rubeyes:


----------



## boxpilot

Radtech51 said:


> Ok well keep us posted, I took another look at those images you put up although without higher rez images or seeing your display in person I can't be sure what's causing it exactly. I've seen bad source material that can make a screen look like that, although I'm not saying that's what's causing your issue. In your images I see some vertical banding, screen uniformity issues and in parts what resembles DSE and some compression image artifacts as well. :nerd:
> 
> lddude: The main point here is when you get your next display make sure to try different source material, often you will never notice minor display artifacts during normal movie viewing. That's the problem with test patterns, they are good at finding issues where none matter or you never know you had. But remember no screen will ever be perfect and the test patterns are designed specifically to find them. As the old saying goes, if you go looking for issues you will most likely find some, so just be careful is all I'm saying and don't forget to try out different source material. :rubeyes:


Thanks for your thoughts. I'm out of town the rest of the week. When I get back I'll try for better pics. 

My issue appeared right out of the box. It was very apparent on broadcast material and blu rays, especially on pans with light backgrounds. I then loaded up my break-in slides on USB and the problem really popped out. Looks like rows of dark squares stacked in varying patterns. Left half of the screen is almost perfect. Problems are all on the right. The replacement set had the problem scattered all over the screen. Sharps seems to know what the the problem is as they replaced the set no questions asked. They just wouldn't tell me what it was.


----------



## highendallday

OK everyone so I just got incite on the release of the new elite sometime around October/November... I will be selling my 60" for 3000, let me know if you will be interested...


----------



## Orbitron

If you know any details, please share.


----------



## mechman

Orbitron said:


> If you know any details, please share.


About the only thing they know is what they stated, it's coming this fall. I don't think Best Buy employees will know more than you or I at this point. Robert probably knows more than the rest of us.


----------



## Orbitron

Just spoke to him and latest is April. He will research on mon. for an update. Interesting time to be in the market for a display, 70" Elite, 65" Panasonic plasma or the wave of OLED which we have yet to scrutinize.


----------



## DJG

Let me ask current owners - what do you have the sharpness control set to? I found the default 0 on the soft side. I am using 2 and it's a world of difference with absolutely no artifacting whatsoever.

If you currently use Sharpness = 0, give 2 a try. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised.


----------



## rothsss

DJG said:


> Let me ask current owners - what do you have the sharpness control set to? I found the default 0 on the soft side. I am using 2 and it's a world of difference with absolutely no artifacting whatsoever.
> 
> If you currently use Sharpness = 0, give 2 a try. I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised.


I am using 2 too. As you said: "A world of difference".


----------



## Ken Ross

Yes, +2 with no ringing, haloing or edge enhancement artifacts. Another case where test patterns may say one thing and actual content something quite different.


----------



## GeneWildersHair

Using zero on my 70, as I don't find it soft at all.


----------



## Rukk

My set was professionally calibrated and the sharpness set to zero. Anything less would've rendered the picture soft. Anything more adds unnecessary information. I think some people like their lines a little more "emphasized". I, myself think where the setting is at is perfect.

On another note, I'm engaging in phase 3 of my home theater "reboot". I'm going to change out my current speakers (This is actually phase 4. Phase 3 is changing out my receiver to a Pioneer Elite SC-61) and my intent is to get Definitive Technology BP-8060ST floors, a CS-8060HD center and SR 8040BP surrounds. Thoughts?


----------



## DJG

Rukk said:


> My set was professionally calibrated and the sharpness set to zero. Anything less would've rendered the picture soft. Anything more adds unnecessary information. I think some people like their lines a little more "emphasized". I, myself think where the setting is at is perfect.
> 
> On another note, I'm engaging in phase 3 of my home theater "reboot". I'm going to change out my current speakers and my intent is to get Definitive Technology BP-8060ST floors, a CS-8060HD center and SR 8040BP surrounds. Thoughts?


Sorry to disagree with you here. The only added information in my sharpness = 2 is a sharper image with no extraneous information or artifacts. I do not like over-emphasized images. Have you actually tried it? I will venture not. You are assuming. We know all about assuming. But maybe I'm assuming that you are assuming and you have actually tried it?

Then again, your TV may behave a bit different than mine.

All I can say at least for my TV, once you've seen 2, you'll want it too.


----------



## Theatredaz

Sharp set to 2 works very well with DVD content> and only worth it if you watch SD video> I noticed a more apparent image when I switched to 1-2 sharpness> it creates the illusion of fine lines, where it was normally viewed as blurry...but I find it has a conclusive effect.


----------



## Rukk

DJG said:


> Sorry to disagree with you here. The only added information in my sharpness = 2 is a sharper image with no extraneous information or artifacts. I do not like over-emphasized images. Have you actually tried it? I will venture not. You are assuming. We know all about assuming. But maybe I'm assuming that you are assuming and you have actually tried it?
> 
> Then again, your TV may behave a bit different than mine.
> 
> All I can say at least for my TV, once you've seen 2, you'll want it too.


I had my set to +2 sharpness prior to the calibration. I will agree with you on your point about different sets (even if they're the same model number) behaving differently.


----------



## rab-byte

Rukk said:


> I had my set to +2 sharpness prior to the calibration. I will agree with you on your point about different sets (even if they're the same model number) behaving differently.


That's the whole point in calibration vs user adjustments. If every display could be made correct by imputing the same settings then manufacturers would be selling sets that didn't need adjustments. It's because of these variances in displays that calibration is needed.


----------



## Rukk

rab-byte said:


> That's the whole point in calibration vs user adjustments. If every display could be made correct by imputing the same settings then manufacturers would be selling sets that didn't need adjustments. It's because of these variances in displays that calibration is needed.


Exactly.


----------



## dsskid

rab-byte said:


> ....If every display could be made correct by imputing the same settings then manufacturers would be selling sets that didn't need adjustments.


Unfortunatley the videophile doesn't make up the majority of their sales, J6P does. 

If all displays adhered to industry standard out of the box, they would all look the same on the wall. 
How then would they convince J6P to purchase their display over their competitors, other than the offering the bigger display at the lower price, which goes against their profitability. 

IMO, they would still intentionally set the default settings incorrectly. Why? Because it's about setting themselves apart from their competitior. 

J6P likes a bright, punchy picture, so they intentionally skew the grayscale towards blue, to make their displays look brighter, and they skew colors to make them look punchy.

As long as they give their display the ability to be calibrated for accuracy, it satisfies the videophile, who is going to get them calibrated anyway.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Rukk said:


> My set was professionally calibrated and the sharpness set to zero. Anything less would've rendered the picture soft. Anything more adds unnecessary information. I think some people like their lines a little more "emphasized". I, myself think where the setting is at is perfect.
> 
> On another note, I'm engaging in phase 3 of my home theater "reboot". I'm going to change out my current speakers (This is actually phase 4. Phase 3 is changing out my receiver to a Pioneer Elite SC-61) and my intent is to get Definitive Technology BP-8060ST floors, a CS-8060HD center and SR 8040BP surrounds. Thoughts?


I would recommend the Yamaha Aventage 3000+ Series. This is best AVR as far as no video degradation between your components to the AVR to the TV. It was tested between this and a few other high end receivers like Pioneer and Anthem for example and came out on top. I'd rate the Pioneer Receiver in second place though.


----------



## Rukk

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I would recommend the Yamaha Aventage 3000+ Series. This is best AVR as far as no video degradation between your components to the AVR to the TV. It was tested between this and a few other high end receivers like Pioneer and Anthem for example and came out on top. I'd rate the Pioneer Receiver in second place though.


Thanks for the advice. I'll give that unit a peep on my next trip to Magnolia (seems the only place I can find that sells high end electronics).

Tell me something about the BDP-1. That was my 2nd player (the 1st was the thrice Samsung BP1000. Even after the firmware updates that unit was terrible). I gave it to my mother and of course she was ecstatic that she has a blu ray player. What were some of the updates? Did it ever get support for DTS HD MA?
Also, I'm amazed at how similar our tastes in electronics are. I too have an HTR-6090 (that's in the living room powering the theater and is what will be replaced).

Oh by the way, are you a DJ or is that just your screen handle?


----------



## boxpilot

Radtech51 said:


> I took another look at those images you put up although without higher rez images or seeing your display in person I can't be sure what's causing it exactly.


Here are better pics of the problem I'm experiencing. I'm expecting set number three tomorrow.


----------



## Radtech51

boxpilot said:


> Here are better pics of the problem I'm experiencing. I'm expecting set number three tomorrow.


Ah ok, much better pictures to analyze. It definitely looks like you have some screen uniformity issues going on, I can clearly see some vertical banding, clouding and what resembles very bad DSE. Normally you can't see DSE on static images unless it's really bad. My VT30 Plasma had a bad case of vertical and horozontal banding as well so I know exactly what you are going through. Anyway keep us posted on how your replacement turns out, this is definitely not normal but does happen to all displays upon occasion. :rubeyes:


----------



## boxpilot

Ok, third Elite delivered yesterday. STEEE-RIKE THREE! DSE and banding filled the screen. This is absolutely pathetic for what is being called a reference grade tv! I've got $$$$$ invested in this tv and it's garbage! Evidently there is no quality control with these sets. I came into this with a lot of enthusiasm. Now, there's no way I would buy this set again. Nor would I recommend the Elite for anyone. I could have spent a fraction of what I spent on this set buying a Vizio and would have had a better screen. I refuse to settle for mediocrecy when I've spent this much money! Now I'm getting pushback from Sharp. Stay tuned. I have no idea what they will do next.

For those that own or have calibrated 60's, what have you seen? This can't be isolated to me only. Are people settling? :rant:


----------



## Radtech51

boxpilot said:


> Ok, third Elite delivered yesterday. STEEE-RIKE THREE! DSE and banding filled the screen. This is absolutely pathetic for what is being called a reference grade tv! I've got $$$$$ invested in this tv and it's garbage! Evidently there is no quality control with these sets. I came into this with a lot of enthusiasm. Now, there's no way I would buy this set again. Nor would I recommend the Elite for anyone. I could have spent a fraction of what I spent on this set buying a Vizio and would have had a better screen. I refuse to settle for mediocrecy when I've spent this much money! Now I'm getting pushback from Sharp. Stay tuned. I have no idea what they will do next.
> 
> For those that own or have calibrated 60's, what have you seen? This can't be isolated to me only. Are people settling? :rant:


No settling here boxpilot, I do not see any issues on my Elite and I've posted pictures of the screen uniformity in the past. 
Here are a few solid color screen shots of my Elite back when I first got it.
















I was just down at the Magnolia Video department in my area last night in fact and I didn't see any issue with the 60'' or 70'' they had on display, both were wall mounted. You might want to see if you can arrange a way of getting one from a different source or build date, talk to Sharp and see what they can do.

PS: If you can take another picture of set number 3 and put it up for comparison that would be great, I'm rather curious to see what happend this time. :coocoo:

PSS: I know it's hard to believe but you might just be very unlucky, I'm usually that way myself with electronics and at the moment I'm on my 2nd laptop swap both for different issues, number 3 is on the way. ;p 
So you see it does happen sometimes, meanwhile keep fighting for what you want and hopefully your patience will pay off.


----------



## dsskid

boxpilot said:


> Ok, third Elite delivered yesterday. STEEE-RIKE THREE! DSE and banding filled the screen. This is absolutely pathetic for what is being called a reference grade tv! I've got $$$$$ invested in this tv and it's garbage! Evidently there is no quality control with these sets. I came into this with a lot of enthusiasm. Now, there's no way I would buy this set again. Nor would I recommend the Elite for anyone. I could have spent a fraction of what I spent on this set buying a Vizio and would have had a better screen. I refuse to settle for mediocrecy when I've spent this much money! Now I'm getting pushback from Sharp. Stay tuned. I have no idea what they will do next.
> 
> For those that own or have calibrated 60's, what have you seen? This can't be isolated to me only. Are people settling? :rant:


Maybe you can exchange it for something else?


----------



## rab-byte

I'd say look into a 65VT50?
You seem to have horrid luck. 

BTW what video mode are you on and do you see these issues in all video modes? And what other equipment are you using?


----------



## dsskid

I was going to recommend the same, but didn't want to have Sharp Elite owners get offended and have them remind me that this is the Sharp Elite thread.


----------



## petekal6

I've had uniformity issues with all of my 60" Elites. The first one had obvious vertical banding, along with a lot of dead pixels. The second set had terrible uniformity problems along with vertical banding. Now I'm on my third, still has some banding and uniformity problems, but it's the best of the 3.

Boxpilot, I seem to have the same band just right of center that looks like a double vertical line. It's been there on two out of three sets. It has to be something in the manufacturing that's causing it. Only reason why it really bothers me is because I'm a huge hockey fan and it really shows on the moving ice surface. 

I'm probably going to end up swapping this one too, but only after a while. I still have over a year...


----------



## rolling green

dsskid said:


> I was going to recommend the same, but didn't want to have Sharp Elite owners get offended and have them remind me that this is the Sharp Elite thread.


ummmm have you checked out the VT threads? serious issues starting to surface. I'd much rather have the cyan issue than the soft picture issue. Huge panny fan and owner here but I really do not have faith in a fix for the panny issues however the effort and execution (pulsing) from sharp has won me over. 
Sorry to hear about your issues boxpilot but calling the elite "garbage" and saying "a Vizio would have had a better screen" is just flat out bologna. Good luck with whatever route you take.


----------



## dsskid

rolling green said:


> ummmm have you checked out the VT threads? serious issues starting to surface. I'd much rather have the cyan issue than the soft picture issue. Huge panny fan and owner here but I really do not have faith in a fix for the panny issues however the effort and execution (pulsing) from sharp has won me over.
> Sorry to hear about your issues boxpilot but calling the elite "garbage" and saying "a Vizio would have had a better screen" is just flat out bologna. Good luck with whatever route you take.


Boxpilot's display had issues with screen uniformity, banding, DSE, which are not prevalant with the VT50. 
He never brought up cyan or color errors as being an issue for him. 

*Responses like yours * is exactly the reason why I wasn't specific in my initial reply.


----------



## rolling green

dsskid said:


> I was going to recommend the same, but didn't want to have Sharp Elite owners get offended and have them remind me that this is the Sharp Elite thread.


your entire response was not specific in ANYTHING! your response was a backhand slap, nothing more nothing less


----------



## dsskid

rolling green said:


> your entire response was not specific in ANYTHING! your response was a backhand slap, nothing more nothing less


My post was a recommendation to "exchange it for something else", since screen uniformity issues are inherent to LED displays, and the issues he was having with all three displays he tried. 

To be frank, what you choose to buy doesn't matter one iota to me. First, it's not my money being spent; second, I am not employed by any of the CE manufacturers and therefore do not profit from your choice; and third, I can't see your display from my house.

If you choose to read more into than was intended, that is your problem.


----------



## boxpilot

rab-byte said:


> I'd say look into a 65VT50?
> You seem to have horrid luck.
> 
> BTW what video mode are you on and do you see these issues in all video modes? And what other equipment are you using?


The issues are in all video modes and picture settings. It's definitely a screen issue. I looked long and hard at the Panny. Came that close to buying it. However, with a good screen, it still prefer the Elite for PQ.



rolling green said:


> Sorry to hear about your issues boxpilot but calling the elite "garbage" and saying "a Vizio would have had a better screen" is just flat out bologna. Good luck with whatever route you take.


Sorry! Let me rephrase. The Elite 60 screens that I'm seeing are garbage. Took a road trip to 3 different BB's yesterday. All were displaying the 70. Took a look at the screens using my break in slides via the usb input. All three screens were near perfect. There is something going on with the 60's. 

Just very frustrated because I can see how good the 70 screens are and can't get the same in a 60. I know there is no perfect screen. I just want a good screen. As I mentioned earlier, I can't go larger than 60 so I'm stuck! Let's just wait and see what Sharp comes up with.


----------



## rab-byte

boxpilot said:


> The issues are in all video modes and picture settings. It's definitely a screen issue. I looked long and hard at the Panny. Came that close to buying it. However, with a good screen, it still prefer the Elite for PQ.
> 
> 
> Just very frustrated because I can see how good the 70 screens are and can't get the same in a 60. I know there is no perfect screen. I just want a good screen. As I mentioned earlier, I can't go larger than 60 so I'm stuck! Let's just wait and see what Sharp comes up with.



All the 70" displays should have been calibrated, at least the ones on sitting in front of the chairs. 

I'm curious did you check all the picture settings on the 70" and did you put your slides on the 60"?

I've been doing far less calibrations as of late as I'm now doing consulting work but I can't say I've seen your issues post calibration on any of the 60" TVs I've done in the past. 

Unfortunately you may have bad luck or very good eyes.


----------



## mechman

Let's be mindful of the forum rules!



> *Please be polite, courteous and respectful of other members, as well as all products and services discussed. There is no need to be condescending or overly critical, not everyone will be as smart as the next person. If you can help, please do so, but remember, we all start learning somewhere and none of us are perfect. If you are the home theater, audio or video aficionado king daddy audiophile, we are glad to have you around, but please be humble and considerate to those of less fortunate knowledge. If you call a member dumb, stupid or an idiot (or anything resembling those) you will be on your way to being banned. Something to remember is unless we are the smartest human being on the planet, there is always going to be someone smarter than us... and we are always going to be "less" smart than at least a few others. Therefore, if you just absolutely must call someone stupid, consider looking in the mirror and go at it all you want... but keep it off this forum.*


----------



## Radtech51

Ok so here it is, this is a first attempt at reproducing what I'm actually seeing on the Elite Vs what you are seeing in just a single photograph. Note: The color has not been altered on any of the images, just the detail you are seeing in the pictures below. I have taken 3 exposures of the same picture on the Elite each at different exposure times ranging all the way up to 5sec. As you can see from the 3 examples of each photo set any singularly taken photo at any exposure time does not contain all of the detail you need to accurately reproduce what you are seeing in person. I have used Adobe Photoshop to merge the images to the best of my ability in hopes to achieve just that result. I hope everyone enjoys the pictures I have taken but please remember that these images are only supposed to give you a better idea or approximation of what we owners are actually seeing in person but in no way represent a completely accurate representation. Let's just say that the accuracy will increase as my skill increases so please enjoy.









Image Above Long exposure time.








Image Above Short exposure time.








Final Image Above.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.









Long exposure time.








Short exposure time.








Final Image.


----------



## boxpilot

Radtech51 said:


> Here are a few solid color screen shots of my Elite back when I first got it.
> 
> PS: If you can take another picture of set number 3 and put it up for comparison that would be great, I'm rather curious to see what happend this time. :coocoo:


Wow! Those look fantastic. A quick shot of set number three. Notice banding down the middle and on the right side.









Another shot of my original set. Are those dark square patterns behind the screen from the LED arrays?


----------



## Radtech51

boxpilot said:


> Wow! Those look fantastic. A quick shot of set number three. Notice banding down the middle and on the right side.
> 
> View attachment 37250
> 
> 
> Another shot of my original set. Are those dark square patterns behind the screen from the LED arrays?
> 
> View attachment 37251


Something is deffinetely up,  I'm sure Sharp is documenting the issue. After they see your 3rd set in a row I hope they will let you hand pick out your very own Elite or something, it's the least they could do after all the trouble this has caused you. I'd encourage you to keep trying for that good Elite as long as they will let you. I don't think anyone could expect you to keep something that looks like that and by doing this you are helping Sharp. they should pay you or give you some kind of compensation for doing this. :hissyfit:

Please keep us posted, I'm all caught up in it all and would like to know how it all ends. :gulp:


----------



## Ken Ross

boxpilot said:


> Ok, third Elite delivered yesterday. STEEE-RIKE THREE! DSE and banding filled the screen. This is absolutely pathetic for what is being called a reference grade tv! I've got $$$$$ invested in this tv and it's garbage! Evidently there is no quality control with these sets. I came into this with a lot of enthusiasm. Now, there's no way I would buy this set again. Nor would I recommend the Elite for anyone. I could have spent a fraction of what I spent on this set buying a Vizio and would have had a better screen. I refuse to settle for mediocrecy when I've spent this much money! Now I'm getting pushback from Sharp. Stay tuned. I have no idea what they will do next.
> 
> For those that own or have calibrated 60's, what have you seen? This can't be isolated to me only. Are people settling? :rant:


I have a 60 and it's fine. On static images with a white screen, I see no evidence of your issues. With motion and the right type of scene, I can see just a tiny bit of DSE. However what I do see is less than any flat panel I've owned. I should add that I did exchange my first 60 for similar issues as yours.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

The Elite's phenomenal black level really made the picture pop last night when watching the opening ceremony. The colors were very rich too. It felt like I was watching the Olympics out my window. This TV amazes me every time I watch it.


----------



## rmcx

I have a question for which I've done some searching and haven't found a definitive answer:

Does the Elite (I have the 60" model) ARC channel send out 5.1 sound information if that's what's currently being fed to the TV?

I'm considering using the Elite as the switching center and using ARC to feed back to an AV unit. Right now I'm using the AV unit as the switch and while that's working OK, I do have some issues with multiple devices over the HDMI CEC linkage. I wanted to experiment but only if the sound from the STB and the BD player will be carried through whole to the AV system.

Thx


----------



## rab-byte

rmcx said:


> I have a question for which I've done some searching and haven't found a definitive answer:
> 
> Does the Elite (I have the 60" model) ARC channel send out 5.1 sound information if that's what's currently being fed to the TV?
> 
> I'm considering using the Elite as the switching center and using ARC to feed back to an AV unit. Right now I'm using the AV unit as the switch and while that's working OK, I do have some issues with multiple devices over the HDMI CEC linkage. I wanted to experiment but only if the sound from the STB and the BD player will be carried through whole to the AV system.
> 
> Thx


It will send 2.0pcm or DD/DTS but no hi-res audio via ARC or optical. 

I would continue to utilize your AVR for source switching. If you're having an issue with CEC control I would say turn CEC off on all devices and get a URC or Harmony style remote. You'll find you have a better level of control and still only need to use one remote.


----------



## rmcx

I am currently using a Harmony 700. The only issue with that is when the wife occasionally points the thing such that it only hits one device (TV or AV) and not the other. Then the units get out of sync and she gets lost.

I now have the Harmony only turn on/off the TV and the TV turn on/off the AV via CEC. That turns out to be a *very* positive connection. As long as she just makes sure the TV is on/off, then the AV will follow right along.

My question arose originally because I'm have some issues with my Oppo BD player which is currently connected to the AV unit. I was rather hoping that if I had the Harmony switch the AV unit to the Oppo's HDMI port, that it would turn on the Oppo automatically. It's not doing that and that's why I wanted to experiment using the TV. Won't bother, though, if the ARC won't feed back the complete sound signal.


----------



## rab-byte

Have you thought about a harmony 900 or getting an IR-extender? I find CEC control to not play nice with after market universal remotes.


----------



## rmcx

Yeah, it's on my list. Just trying to save a few bucks.

But so far I'm quite pleased with what I've achieved so far combining the 700 with the link control.

I also am using an IR extender but haven't got the positioning just right. But my goal is to reduce cables wherever possible.

Thx


----------



## lynskyn

I just got a firmware update on my 70. It says Blockbuster, Napster and Alphaline apps are no longer available. Does anyone know if anything else was done on this update other than remove apps? FW version is now 219U1206131.


----------



## Ken Ross

I installed it. I've got tech support at Elite looking in to what it is. I don't use those apps, so I went ahead and installed it.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Alphaline filed for bankruptcy and blockbuster reformatted their site which now is owned by Dish. They were simply inactive apps.


----------



## Ken Ross

Strange that they'd have an update just for that.


----------



## Radtech51

Ken Ross said:


> Strange that they'd have an update just for that.


Perhaps legally they had to idk? Also I wouldn't be surprised if a few other things were updated as well, time will tell. :sneeky:


----------



## Ken Ross

I agree Rad. Some are reporting faster menu response with the update.


----------



## Ken Ross

I've been informed by Sharp that the latest update brings 1080 30p to the Elites. This is good news for DirecTV viewers since they have or will soon have, content with that resolution. 

That was the major reason for the update.


----------



## Audiofiler

Any updates about the pulsing that Sharp was still looking into addressing?


----------



## Radtech51

Here is a Picture of my Elite Setup, thought I'd show everyone where I'm taking my pictures from. 
PS: What does your setup look like?








Here is an image I took while watching Star Trek again recently, the picture was compiled from more then one exposure taken in manual mode. (ISF-Night).
PS: More images are on the way, stay tuned just need to upload them.


----------



## Radtech51

Ok here is the next batch of images, I decided to give TRON a try again. All images were taken in ISF-Night mode.
PS: Stay tuned for final batch of images, meanwhile please enjoy these. 

























































































































































Most of the images had mutable exposure times, as my skill increases so will the accuracy of the images to what I'm actually seeing. It is my goal to be able to show you as accurate a picture as possible, note however that the Elite is still showing more detail in person and the color is not entirely accurate. In the next batch of images coming up the color accuracy will be much improved because they were taken in (RAW) format so stay tuned.


----------



## Radtech51

As promised here is the next batch of images all taken in (RAW) format, I decided to use the movie Watchmen because it's a move we should all be familiar with and will present a good choice for showing off color accuracy and picture quality for viewing. Again all images were taken in multiple exposure times to capture all of the detail, all images were taken in ISF-Night picture mode calibrated by Kevin Miller. From this point on all images will be taken in (RAW) format for color accuracy so please enjoy.


----------



## dsskid

Looks great.


----------



## Radtech51

Image of the day. 








TRON, taken in RAW format ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## DJG

Audiofiler said:


> Any updates about the pulsing that Sharp was still looking into addressing?


That for me is the biggest concern, but I think they gave up on it.


----------



## Radtech51

Image of the Day. 








STAR TREK original image taken in JPEG format, ISF-Night Picture mode.


----------



## tripplej

Hi guys,

Quick question..

How is the tv during the daytime with the lights on?

I was reading several reviews on the 70 inch elite that it is very reflective on the front glass..

I am thinking of getting the elite 70 inch but I am concerned about the reflection on the glass since my game room has two set of lights and it wouldn't look good to see the bulbs in the glass so to speak.. 

Any thoughts?


----------



## JClam

tripplej said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Quick question..
> 
> How is the tv during the daytime with the lights on?
> 
> I was reading several reviews on the 70 inch elite that it is very reflective on the front glass..
> 
> I am thinking of getting the elite 70 inch but I am concerned about the reflection on the glass since my game room has two set of lights and it wouldn't look good to see the bulbs in the glass so to speak..
> 
> Any thoughts?


I have had my 70 in my family room/sun room (3 walls of glass, vaulted ceilings and 6 skylights) since last october and my primary concern pre-buy was reflections. I have had ZERO reflection issues with daytime lighting. At night time I had an issue with 1 lamp, moved it a few feet and solved that problem. 

Clam


----------



## tripplej

JClam said:


> I have had my 70 in my family room/sun room (3 walls of glass, vaulted ceilings and 6 skylights) since last october and my primary concern pre-buy was reflections. I have had ZERO reflection issues with daytime lighting. At night time I had an issue with 1 lamp, moved it a few feet and solved that problem.
> 
> Clam


Thanks for the information..

My only concern is the reflection since the lights will be on in the room when watching tv..


----------



## JClam

tripplej said:


> Thanks for the information..
> 
> My only concern is the reflection since the lights will be on in the room when watching tv..


Not an issue for me or my family.

I should add that I had a Pioneer Elite 710HD forever in the same room. The reflections were a big issue and we had the contrast screen removed and had it re calibrated and that solved that problem...so we were very sensitive to the reflection issue before we bought the 70X5FD. Not an issue for us now.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format, ISF-Night Picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

tripplej said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> Quick question..
> 
> How is the tv during the daytime with the lights on?
> 
> I was reading several reviews on the 70 inch elite that it is very reflective on the front glass..
> 
> I am thinking of getting the elite 70 inch but I am concerned about the reflection on the glass since my game room has two set of lights and it wouldn't look good to see the bulbs in the glass so to speak..
> 
> Any thoughts?


The image of my setup was taken with the curtains drawn aside to the right and left and the blinds were opened up partly as well letting a good amount of light into the room. http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-70x5fd-discussion-thread-244.html#post539631 
Unless you have lights directly behind your TV at seating level or a strong light from ether side glaring directly onto your Elite you're not likely going to see much glare that would be distracting to you. In the morning I do a fair amount lot of daytime viewing and I find that I don't even need to go outside ISF-night picture mode even.


----------



## tripplej

Radtech51 said:


> The image of my setup was taken with the curtains drawn aside to the right and left and the blinds were opened up partly as well letting a good amount of light into the room. http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-70x5fd-discussion-thread-244.html#post539631
> Unless you have lights directly behind your TV at seating level or a strong light from ether side glaring directly onto your Elite you're not likely going to see much glare that would be distracting to you. In the morning I do a fair amount lot of daytime viewing and I find that I don't even need to go outside ISF-night picture mode even.


Thanks for your insight as well.

My game room is a rectangular room. One end has windows and the other end has a wall where I would hang the 70 inch sharp elite. Due to the distance between the two walls, the light from the window will not be an issue. 

The only issue for me is the lights that I have which are on the ceiling. I have two fans and on both there are 3 or 4 bulbs. One fan is near the window and the other fan is near the wall where the elite would be hanging..

I will have to see how it goes..


----------



## cleveland plasma

JClam said:


> At night time I had an issue with 1 lamp, moved it a few feet and solved that problem.
> 
> Clam


 Had similar issues, nothing like things you can move


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the Day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format, ISF-Night Picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format, ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
































All Images were taken in RAW format, ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

So what's the deal with the Darblett? By adding this, wouldn't you have to recalibrate your setup? Normally, calibrators tend to turn off or down the processing done by the TV. By adding this, it sounds like its just doing the opposite of what a director wants you to visualize. When I read briefly on how it removes a layer of the TV so it's brighter, aren't we just adding more to torch mode? At ISF night, I'd assume you wouldn't want this. The 3D on it is not a seller for this TV since its already the best around IMO. Therefore, if you are an owner and have this item, I'd assume it's strictly for PQ. I also heard about being sharper with this unit. It just sounds like its going to give SOE.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.








































All Images were taken in RAW format, ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## g997

Looks like my IR sensor is going on my 70"
2 remotes, neither barely works so I'm sure its in the TV

Any ideas as to what is going on


----------



## Radtech51

g997 said:


> Looks like my IR sensor is going on my 70"
> 2 remotes, neither barely works so I'm sure its in the TV
> 
> Any ideas as to what is going on


No sure, what is your build date? I've not had any issues with my sensor, also I'm one of the original consumers to get the Elite when it first came out not sure if that has anything to do with it or not. :sneeky:


----------



## rab-byte

g997 said:


> Looks like my IR sensor is going on my 70"
> 2 remotes, neither barely works so I'm sure its in the TV
> 
> Any ideas as to what is going on


Use your phones camera and look thought it while pressing some buttons on your remote. Your phones camera can see an IR signal. Compare the intensity of the IR beam to other devices and see if the remote is just as strong or not.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
































All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## dsskid

While I can appreciate all the nice pictures that you post, I don't see the purpose. Perhaps you should start a photo thread?


----------



## GeneWildersHair

I don't mind the pics, rather I actually enjoy seeing someone post something positive in this thread. Great pics Rad!


----------



## Radtech51

GeneWildersHair said:


> I don't mind the pics, rather I actually enjoy seeing someone post something positive in this thread. Great pics Rad!


Thank you. :sn:


----------



## Radtech51

Image of the day.








All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## mechman

Those cyan eyes don't look off to me... :sneeky:

Sorry! Couldn't help myself!


----------



## tripplej

Hi guys, 

I have a question..

I am very interested in the 70 inch elite. 

To get the WAF (wife approval factor), I need to enhance the tv a bit.. I have been checking out those mirror tv options, where you put a frame with glass ontop of the tv and when the tv is off, it is a mirror and when the tv is on, you see the tv. Has anybody done this or know of anybody who has done this?


----------



## DJG

:gulp:


----------



## tripplej

I know it is not the best option but I have to do some compromise to get what I want and to get what my wife wants. She wouldn't care less what type of tv.

I don't think anybody has done this so will look around. My only concern is the light exposure due to the double glass that is used for the mirror on/off look.

Thanks all for assisting.


----------



## DJG

I'm wondering about 1) light loss 2) distortion and 3) reflectivity ...


----------



## tripplej

DJG said:


> I'm wondering about 1) light loss 2) distortion and 3) reflectivity ...


Thanks DJG. Yeah.. I am also concerned. I just wish there was some way to see this "option" in place. Unfortunatley, I don't think any retail establishment has this available.. I am still investigating but if it isn't possible for me to test prior to my purchase, I will just forget it and get the elite without the mirror "option"..


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
































All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## mechman

What movie is that Rad?


----------



## Hutchinshouse

It's IMAX Born to be wild. The video quality on the blu-ray is breathtaking. I watched it two weeks ago. We're talking Baraka quality in my eyes.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Hutchinshouse

I just noticed on the Elite site they took down firmware 2.19 and put back up 2.17. Anyone know why?


----------



## DJG

Actually, they redesigned their web site, and 2.19 download is on the front page!

Sharp Elite Site


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
























All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
















All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
















All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## Radtech51

Images of the day.
















All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## treky11

well, i will be seeing how good customer support is. 

my tv stopped responding to any commands from my remote (the stock one and my universal, so i know its not the remotes)

hope its an easy fix and its quick!


----------



## Radtech51

Image of the day.








All Images were taken in RAW format and in ISF-Night picture mode.


----------



## graybeard

un plug the tv and hold power button on for 10 sec plug tv back in that sometimes resets the unit


----------



## g997

dsskid said:


> While I can appreciate all the nice pictures that you post, I don't see the purpose. Perhaps you should start a photo thread?


+1

The bandwidth these take up, as well as having to sort thru them all to read "discussions" is a pain.

Mods, please move them to a picture thread


----------



## wingnut4772

I am having my 70 Elite professionals calibrated on Saturday. What differences can I expect? The PQ out of the box for me is a bit disappointing compared to my Kuro.


----------



## DJG

You'll need to elaborate on what you don't like and what specific setting values you have tried ...


----------



## wingnut4772

DJG said:


> You'll need to elaborate on what you don't like and what specific setting values you have tried ...


Well I have tried it on every av mode OOTB and it either looks a bit washed out or over saturated or too bright. I also tried the CNET settings and a couple recommended here. My biggest complaint is that it looks washed out - like I would expect from an LCD - but not from this set. It has moments of brilliance though with blu ray and 3D so it's teetering on the edge of stunning sometimes. I am excited to see what changes someone who actually knows what they are doing can make.


----------



## DJG

This sounds strange. In the best settings you tried, were the blacks solid but not enough brightness and or color saturation? I have no problem getting solid blacks, more than enough enough brightness and plenty color saturation, ergo not washed out. I'm trying to comprehend what is causing the washed-out look. Lack of blacks? Lack of brightness? Lack of color saturation?

What IVC settings have you tried?


----------



## JimP

wingnut4772 said:


> Well I have tried it on every av mode OOTB and it either looks a bit washed out or over saturated or too bright. I also tried the CNET settings and a couple recommended here. My biggest complaint is that it looks washed out - like I would expect from an LCD - but not from this set. It has moments of brilliance though with blu ray and 3D so it's teetering on the edge of stunning sometimes. I am excited to see what changes someone who actually knows what they are doing can make.


So....how did your calibration go?


----------



## wingnut4772

That's not until Saturday.


----------



## wingnut4772

Well I had the calibration done last night. I haven't had much of a chance to look at it yet as my calibrator was having some difficulty with his Calman software and the calibration went on well into the night. He calibrated ISF Day and Night. From what I have seen , I think the Day looks good but the Night not so much. I will have to look at it some more. He is supposed to be emailing me the calibration results.


----------



## lcaillo

wingnut4772 said:


> Well I had the calibration done last night. I haven't had much of a chance to look at it yet as my calibrator was having some difficulty with his Calman software and the calibration went on well into the night. He calibrated ISF Day and Night. From what I have seen , I think the Day looks good but the Night not so much. I will have to look at it some more. He is supposed to be emailing me the calibration results.


Who was the calibrator? It seems unusual to leave you with this kind of question and concern.


----------



## wingnut4772

lcaillo said:


> Who was the calibrator? It seems unusual to leave you with this kind of question and concern.


It's probably just my eye wanting the bright pop. We had some extenuating circumstances. He was having software issues and I had a migraine so bad I had to hand over the baton to my wife so I couldn't finish out my session with him. He was very nice and assures me he stands behind his work.


----------



## jmschnur

wingnut4772 said:


> It's probably just my eye wanting the bright pop. We had some extenuating circumstances. He was having software issues and I had a migraine so bad I had to hand over the baton to my wife so I couldn't finish out my session with him. He was very nice and assures me he stands behind his work.


Have you tried a Darblet with your set? It does brings back the pop.


----------



## wingnut4772

jmschnur said:


> Have you tried a Darblet with your set? It does brings back the pop.


No I haven't.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

jmschnur said:


> Have you tried a Darblet with your set? It does brings back the pop.


I tried the Darblett for the first time tonight on my 70" Elite. I really don't understand what people are liking about this product. It makes everything look fake with a sharpness that's crushing the picture. The best way i can explain it is that it's like someone traced the picture with a pencil and darkened distinct lines like that of a person's facial features like cheek bones, eyes, etc. It looked kind of creepy to be honest. Haha. Not to mention, it is raising the black levels. It is clearly affecting local dimming as their are clear fluctuations in brightness in areas that should be dark. When you turn the unit off, the anomalies disappear. I am, however, looking to get a Lumagen Video processor which as of September with Calman gives the ability to properly track all the colors accurately including cyan.


----------



## jmschnur

DJ Mike Fury said:


> I tried the Darblett for the first time tonight on my 70" Elite. I really don't understand what people are liking about this product. It makes everything look fake with a sharpness that's crushing the picture. The best way i can explain it is that it's like someone traced the picture with a pencil and darkened distinct lines like that of a person's facial features like cheek bones, eyes, etc. It looked kind of creepy to be honest. Haha. Not to mention, it is raising the black levels. It is clearly affecting local dimming as their are clear fluctuations in brightness in areas that should be dark. When you turn the unit off, the anomalies disappear. I am, however, looking to get a Lumagen Video processor which as of September with Calman gives the ability to properly track all the colors accurately including cyan.


Interesting. Local dimming may well not be compatible with the device.

I found that with my Kuro 151 it helped in some cases. Usually my setting is HD 40 or so.


----------



## JimP

Mike,
What setting did you use on the Darbet?

What viewing distance?


----------



## Ken Ross

jmschnur said:


> Interesting. Local dimming may well not be compatible with the device.
> 
> I found that with my Kuro 151 it helped in some cases. Usually my setting is HD 40 or so.


No problem with blacks on my Elite when using the Darblett.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

JimP said:


> Mike,
> What setting did you use on the Darbet?
> 
> What viewing distance?


I was using the HD setting on the Darblett. I'm about 10-11 ft away from the TV.


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

Just to let people know - Kevin Miller had the opportunity with a Lumagen and attempted a custom LUT with it on the Elite. He said it was an utter failure and ruined the picture. The panel changes the color's luminance during the process totally destroying the color in the process. He was forced to do a complete rest on the Lumagen and do it from scratch without the 5x5x5. Therefore, there is no cyan fix for those that were curious through the 5x5x5 with Calman and a Lumagen. 

On another note, Kevin had the opportunity to review the Darblett which he will post on HTS. Since a lot of owners on here use it, I figured I'd pass this info along. He said that the unit "causes massive edge enhancement, raises black level, and changes the orginal video source drastically."


----------



## dsskid

Thank you for the report DJ Mike.


----------



## DJG

Thanks Other DJ  and Kevin. That will save me the time - that was my next calibration project now that the straight Elite calibration is getting to the point of diminishing returns and looks spectacular. The problem so far was that it kept getting more spectacular as I learned and refined my process. I finally started watching movies instead of patterns . I just got the Fringe 4th Season BDs and whoa! It's like a 3D window in depth (not to the front but towards the rear).


----------



## lcaillo

DJ Mike Fury said:


> Just to let people know - Kevin Miller had the opportunity with a Lumagen and attempted a custom LUT with it on the Elite. He said it was an utter failure and ruined the picture. The panel changes the color's luminance during the process totally destroying the color in the process. He was forced to do a complete rest on the Lumagen and do it from scratch without the 5x5x5. Therefore, there is no cyan fix for those that were curious through the 5x5x5 with Calman and a Lumagen.
> 
> On another note, Kevin had the opportunity to review the Darblett which he will post on HTS. Since a lot of owners on here use it, I figured I'd pass this info along. He said that the unit "causes massive edge enhancement, raises black level, and changes the orginal video source drastically."


Let's let Kevin speak for himself. I find the quote unlikely as no one else has found a rise in black level. I suspect some misunderstanding or miscommunication is in play here.


----------



## tele1962

lcaillo said:


> Let's let Kevin speak for himself. I find the quote unlikely as no one else has found a rise in black level. I suspect some misunderstanding or miscommunication is in play here.


Same here i have not seen any reports regarding raised black levels when using the Darblet.


----------



## buzzard767

tele1962 said:


> Same here i have not seen any reports regarding raised black levels when using the Darblet.


Here's a report:

No Darblet in the chain, Darblet in the chain set to 0, Darblet in the chain set to 120% in all three modes - all cases measured exactly the same - 0.011 cd/m2 = 0.00321 FtL

Conclusion: The Darblet does not alter black MLL.

As to that earlier mention of edge enhancement, no, not in the sense of a display Sharpness control adding content. Not even a little bit. I studied it pixel by pixel.


----------



## tele1962

buzzard767 said:


> Here's a report:
> 
> No Darblet in the chain, Darblet in the chain set to 0, Darblet in the chain set to 120% in all three modes - all cases measured exactly the same - 0.011 cd/m2 = 0.00321 FtL
> 
> Conclusion: The Darblet does not alter black MLL.
> 
> As to that earlier mention of edge enhancement, no, not in the sense of a display Sharpness control adding content. Not even a little bit. I studied it pixel by pixel.


I think that maybe we need to wait for the full review.


----------



## mechman

buzzard767 said:


> Here's a report:
> 
> No Darblet in the chain, Darblet in the chain set to 0, Darblet in the chain set to 120% in all three modes - all cases measured exactly the same - 0.011 cd/m2 = 0.00321 FtL
> 
> Conclusion: The Darblet does not alter black MLL.
> 
> As to that earlier mention of edge enhancement, no, not in the sense of a display Sharpness control adding content. Not even a little bit. I studied it pixel by pixel.


Is this using patterns or content? In my macro shots, the whites of the stars in Avatar clearly brightened at 75%. But it's not a universal across the board raising of the brightness. Just certain areas are raised. Same with blacks.

I think a better conclusion is that yes it does alter white/black levels in some areas of the content. But not in a measurable way with patterns. And you studied all ~2 million pixels Buzz? :unbelievable:

I'm going to copy these posts to the Darblet thread. Let's carry on the discussion there rather than the Elite thread shall we?


----------



## buzzard767

mechman said:


> Is this using patterns or content? In my macro shots, the whites of the stars in Avatar clearly brightened at 75%. But it's not a universal across the board raising of the brightness. Just certain areas are raised. Same with blacks.
> 
> I think a better conclusion is that yes it does alter white/black levels in some areas of the content. But not in a measurable way with patterns. And you studied all ~2 million pixels Buzz? :unbelievable:
> 
> I'm going to copy these posts to the Darblet thread. Let's carry on the discussion there rather than the Elite thread shall we?


How are you going to measure content? Changes are only made to very small screen areas, dark gets darker, adjacent light gets lighter. Maybe there is a way and Kevin Miller can enlighten us. In any case, my measurements are accurate - Klein K10-A.

I would think that a handful of pixels would be representative of the rest of the screen. Use a magnifying glass and check the borders of small dark against lighter content while switching the Darblet on and off and you will see that pixel colors are not changed, only luminance.

Off to the Darblet thread where I view all the speculation. Sigh. :sweat:


----------



## Audiofiler

Happy that people are enjoying their set and posting about it. I am still seeing a bunch of flickering as result of pulsing. Is there anything further from Sharp to minimize the pulsing beyond the 2.17 FW fix?

It is still quite noticeable.


----------



## DJG

I see it from time to time. It's the only small wart on this beautiful face. I have a feeling the economic status has probably thinned out any work on this.


----------



## Widamere

Hiyya guys. Anyone out there, that has their set calibrated in Elite Pure mode, willing to post their settings?
Tnx :clap:


----------



## Widamere

Here are the settings I am currently running:
Int. Variable Contrast: Local Diming ON
Backlight: STD (0)
Contrast: +20
Bright: 0
Color: +2
Tint: 0
Sharpness: +2

CMS Hue CMS Saturation CMS Value
R: 0 0 0
Y: 0 0 +2
G: +2 -1 0
C: -1 0 -2
B: +2 0 0
M +1 +1 0
Color Temp: Middle
Motion Enhancment: 120Hz High
Prec. Color: Off
Active Contrast: Off
Gamma: 0
Film Mode: Off
Dolby N.R.: High


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

For those that are "suspect" regarding what Kevin Miller said, just PM me your e-mail and I'll forward you his e-mail he sent me. It is what it is.


----------



## Rukk

@ DJ Mike fury: Do you have issues with your Harmony and Elite when changing activities? Does your set stay on the current source or skip the new source input? Does it move down but stops on the DLNA input? I have the 1000 (which is basically the older silver version of the 1100). Did you have these issuesand found a way to correct? If so, how pray tell.


----------



## Radtech51

Just saw The Avengers and Prometheus last weekend on the Elite, all I can say is wow!


----------



## Theatredaz

* Just got these new Calibration settings posted on AVS Forum!



























These setting improve the image that is just optically stunning! Thanks to the flat RGB color scale.


----------



## Motoman

Just found the Shack here when I saw a mention of it in another forum. Looking forward reading all the posts about the Elite sets. I've been shopping for a 60" Elite over the last couple of weeks. Had a couple of setbacks over the last few weeks but I'm hoping to order this week. Seems most of my posts on a couple of other forums have been ignored or there is mostly fighting amongst themselves. 

Can't wait to join the owners club. Need to get to 5 posts now...


----------



## Motoman

^^^ Forgot to mention I have a Samsung UN55B8500 now and it has been a good set. No problems so far. I don't think I'll sell it and will probably move it into another room.


----------



## Motoman

It is slow here today at work :yay: so I'm plowing through all the posts here. One minute you think this is the display for me then the next you are cringing in fear.


----------



## Motoman

Motoman said:


> It is slow here today at work :yay: so I'm plowing through all the posts here. One minute you think this is the display for me then the next you are cringing in fear.
> 
> ....


So far I've read page 175 to the current page. I now have a headache :blink:

Not sure about my choice now. Flicker problems and the 60" screen issues have given me pause. :gulp:

Any thoughts?


----------



## mechman

I thought that the 60" sets were the good ones? :huh:


----------



## Motoman

mechman said:


> I thought that the 60" sets were the good ones? :huh:


I read a few posts back of someone having DSE and poor screen uniformity on his 60" when bringing up some of the screen shots. Some alluded to a 60 having more issues than the 70. I could have misread. I was almost cross-eyed after all that reading. :dontknow:


----------



## mechman

Motoman said:


> I could have misread. I was almost cross-eyed after all that reading. :dontknow:


Either that or I misread. The info is more fresh in your head right now so I'd go with your memory. :T


----------



## tripplej

From what I have read here and on other forums, the 60 inch has been having the issues.. Haven't read about the 70 but then again, maybe due to the price difference, more people just purchased the 60 and noticed the issues and posted. :huh: But, from what I can tell in general, 70 is better then the 60!


----------



## jwcole1224

I posted a question regarding the 60 vs 70 displays, sometime back.

I currently have the 60", which I'll be upgrading to the 70" tomorrow.
I will post my impressions sometime this week.

I ran into calibration issues on the 60", which were not apparent with the 70".
According to my calibrator, the 70" is the superior display.
Of course, it cost more too.


----------



## Motoman

jwcole1224 said:


> I posted a question regarding the 60 vs 70 displays, sometime back.
> 
> I currently have the 60", which I'll be upgrading to the 70" tomorrow.
> I will post my impressions sometime this week.
> 
> I ran into calibration issues on the 60", which were not apparent with the 70".
> According to my calibrator, the 70" is the superior display.
> Of course, it cost more too.


Sorry to hear that. Hope the new one works out for you. I wish I could go for a 70 but it is too large and too expensive. I can get a 60 by getting it from a couple of well know sources that will ship to me and that makes it doable but if I ended up with a bad set then you can't just go to a store and have it swapped out.


----------



## jwcole1224

You might check your local Best Buys Stores for an "open box" 60" Elite.
I live in Oregon and I saw one at my nearby BB for $2900, looked brand new.

Please don't misunderstand, the 60" is a fine TV, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
Other than the one issue I had, I was pleased.


----------



## Motoman

jwcole1224 said:


> You might check your local Best Buys Stores for an "open box" 60" Elite.
> I live in Oregon and I saw one at my nearby BB for $2900, looked brand new.
> 
> Please don't misunderstand, the 60" is a fine TV, I'm sure you'll be happy with it.
> Other than the one issue I had, I was pleased.


Thanks for the reply. Haven't done anything yet. I was hoping to order one this week but hit a few snags.
Good luck on the new 70. Looking forward to your impressions.

Jim


----------



## jwcole1224

First of all, the 70" is a LOT bigger than the 60", more than I imagined.
But, that's a good thing.

No major issues with my new 70", but it does have 3 dead sub-pixels.
Strange thing, I didn't have even one bad pixel on the 60"s I owned.
But since the whole pixel is not dead, I'm not too worried about it, at this time.

Has anyone else run into dead pixels?
If so, how many and did you get a replacement?


----------



## Motoman

jwcole1224 said:


> First of all, the 70" is a LOT bigger than the 60", more than I imagined.
> But, that's a good thing.


I went to the display wars site and did the 60 vs. 70 and was like whoa :unbelievable: Much larger.

http://www.displaywars.com/

I wish I could but no way. :nono:


----------



## AzMike

Hi All, I just purchased this PRO-70X5FD and should be delivered tomorrow. Can anyone point me in the right direction for calibrating this TV? Will a disk do or is it advisable to hire someone? I'm in Arizona and have no clue where to look for someone that can calibrate TV's? 

Any help is much appreciated. 

Mike


----------



## RayJr

AzMike said:


> Hi All, I just purchased this PRO-70X5FD and should be delivered tomorrow. Can anyone point me in the right direction for calibrating this TV? Will a disk do or is it advisable to hire someone? I'm in Arizona and have no clue where to look for someone that can calibrate TV's?
> 
> Any help is much appreciated.
> 
> Mike


Hello Mike,
Here is a list that may help you out:

THX Certified Video Calibrator

Hope this helps
RayJr


----------



## AzMike

Thanks Ray!


----------



## RayJr

If you have any questions about Video Calibration...you are more then welcome to give me a call.

RayJr
www.socalht.com


----------



## Turbe

Beside Lee Gallagher, there is also Michael Hamilton.. both have experience on these models

Check this LIST for Michael's contact info (Lee's info is on there to but is also on the thx list).


----------



## Motoman

Do you think at this point it is better to wait till CES to see what is in the pipeline and if Sharp will update the Elite line? I would still like to pickup a 60 but haven't been able to get one under that magic number the other half will approve so I'm still hoping. Even if they do announce new sets @ CES they will probably be months away and more money. Any thoughts?


----------



## AzMike

Can anyone provide feedback on what this TV likes best for power. I have a Panamax M5400EX, that is currently conditioning a Rotel RSX 1067, PS3, & Dish Satellite. The Elite Pro is plugged into one of 3 dedicated circuits all by itself. The installers didn't seam too sure if it should be plugged into the Panamax, so we left it on the dedicated circuit. 


Thanks - Mike


----------



## Radtech51

Motoman said:


> Do you think at this point it is better to wait till CES to see what is in the pipeline and if Sharp will update the Elite line? I would still like to pickup a 60 but haven't been able to get one under that magic number the other half will approve so I'm still hoping. Even if they do announce new sets @ CES they will probably be months away and more money. Any thoughts?


lddude: Really there is no wrong decision here, go with whatever is more beneficial to you at this time. If you can find a great price on the 60'' you might seriously consider that option. I doubt you will find a new Elite model come this Jan, and even if you do it will most certainly not be for any less then than current Elite lines.


----------



## RayJr

Motoman said:


> Do you think at this point it is better to wait till CES to see what is in the pipeline and if Sharp will update the Elite line? I would still like to pickup a 60 but haven't been able to get one under that magic number the other half will approve so I'm still hoping. Even if they do announce new sets @ CES they will probably be months away and more money. Any thoughts?


CES is so close...I would personally wait to see what is being announced there.

Just my $.02
RayJr


----------



## Motoman

RayJr said:


> CES is so close...I would personally wait to see what is being announced there.
> 
> Just my $.02
> RayJr


Just about what I've decided to do. Money was a little tight with a recent car accident and Christmas so I had to keep under a certain price and I can't get one for that price :sad: so I'll see what is new and if any improvements are made to the current Elite line. If not I'll revisit the current models then.

Thanks for the reply. I was starting to think nobody read this thread anymore.. :heehee:


----------



## Radtech51

Motoman said:


> Just about what I've decided to do. Money was a little tight with a recent car accident and Christmas so I had to keep under a certain price and I can't get one for that price :sad: so I'll see what is new and if any improvements are made to the current Elite line. If not I'll revisit the current models then.
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I was starting to think nobody read this thread anymore.. :heehee:


Yea it's been very quiet lately. :blink: 

PS: I do hope Sharp gives us another Elite to drool over come this Jan CES. However because of their current financial situation I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. :rolleyesno:


----------



## Motoman

Radtech51 said:


> Yea it's been very quiet lately. :blink:
> 
> PS: I do hope Sharp gives us another Elite to drool over come this Jan CES. However because of their current financial situation I wouldn't be surprised if they don't. :rolleyesno:


That would not surprise me either :sad: I would still buy one even if they to do not update the line. I can't watch plasma sets and I don't want a edge lit set so my choices are pretty limited. Hopefully there will be a after Christmas sale and someone can hook me up. :T


----------



## Rukk

Motoman said:


> That would not surprise me either :sad: I would still buy one even if they to do not update the line. I can't watch plasma sets and I don't want a edge lit set so my choices are pretty limited. Hopefully there will be a after Christmas sale and someone can hook me up. :T



What's the issue with plasma? Is there a certain condition your viewing area has that makes plasma untenable, or something else? Or did you simply replace the word "won't" with "can't"? I ask because I'm looking at a Panny St50 for my bedroom. I want all the info I can collate before making a decision on a purchase.


----------



## Motoman

Rukk said:


> What's the issue with plasma? Is there a certain condition your viewing area has that makes plasma untenable, or something else? Or did you simply replace the word "won't" with "can't"? I ask because I'm looking at a Panny St50 for my bedroom. I want all the info I can collate before making a decision on a purchase.


No the problem is me. I had a Panasonic Plasma about 3 years ago and it caused havoc with my eye sight. Still not sure exactly what caused it but when I had it I had headaches and my eyes were very sensitive to light. Happened more while watching TV. I was miserable. Long story short I replaced the plasma with the current LED set I have now and the problems went away. :dontknow:


----------



## Rukk

Motoman said:


> No the problem is me. I had a Panasonic Plasma about 3 years ago and it caused havoc with my eye sight. Still not sure exactly what caused it but when I had it I had headaches and my eyes were very sensitive to light. Happened more while watching TV. I was miserable. Long story short I replaced the plasma with the current LED set I have now and the problems went away. :dontknow:



OUCH!! That's scary! Anyone else out there have similar issues?


----------



## Motoman

Rukk said:


> OUCH!! That's scary! Anyone else out there have similar issues?


I started a thread back in early 2009 over at AVS and HDJ about it. There were a couple of people with issues on some sort or another but nothing like I was having. It may have been something else at the time but nobody could find anything medically wrong. They did a bunch of guessing and testing.I went to dozens of appointments. I started noticing I could sit at my LCD monitor or LCD TV in the bedroom and I was fine but as soon as I went into the TV room and started watching the plasma the issues started. I would start blinking and my eyes starting itching and felt dry and the headaches would start. Doctors laid it off to dry eye syndrome and gave me pills and drops and said I would have to live with it. I sold the plasma and put my 40" LCD in it's place and within two days all my issues were gone. I finally bought the Samsung UN55B8500 which is a backlit LED and I've never had another issue.

I would love to get a 65VT50 and save some money but I can't risk it. Some people thought I might be sensitive to the strobing of a plasma backlight or something like that. I'm just a freak of nature I guess...:unbelievable:


----------



## Rukk

Motoman said:


> I started a thread back in early 2009 over at AVS and HDJ about it. There were a couple of people with issues on some sort or another but nothing like I was having. It may have been something else at the time but nobody could find anything medically wrong. They did a bunch of guessing and testing.I went to dozens of appointments. I started noticing I could sit at my LCD monitor or LCD TV in the bedroom and I was fine but as soon as I went into the TV room and started watching the plasma the issues started. I would start blinking and my eyes starting itching and felt dry and the headaches would start. Doctors laid it off to dry eye syndrome and gave me pills and drops and said I would have to live with it. I sold the plasma and put my 40" LCD in it's place and within two days all my issues were gone. I finally bought the Samsung UN55B8500 which is a backlit LED and I've never had another issue.
> 
> I would love to get a 65VT50 and save some money but I can't risk it. Some people thought I might be sensitive to the strobing of a plasma backlight or something like that. I'm just a freak of nature I guess...:unbelievable:



Sorry to hear that. The picture on VT IS awesome! Easily rivaling the Elite (I should know. I own the 70" beast). I can't even consider the VT because they come no smaller than 55". Fortunately, the ST is nearly as good (PQ wise) and from what I've read, when tweaked correctly, is even better than the VT/GT THX modes.


----------



## Motoman

We went out for Chinese food today and my fortune cookie said "Treat yourself to something of quality"
I take than as a sign to buy an Elite set. :spend:


----------



## dvzzz

Green bars on my 70" Elite. Can you please check your 70" for me? Mine is Nov 2012 build and I just cannot believe that I have this problem. I posted on AVS Forums and nobody there has seen it. I am very concerned that these bars are indicative of the problem with the current batch of Sharp panels, I bought 80" 633 Sharp and it had a green beard all around the screen, this Elite has 3 bars across. Getting a replacement from Best Buy is taking a long time but I hope to get a new set on Thursday. I wonder if only new Nov 2012 are bad or bars have been there before. Please see attached pictures.
















:hissyfit:


----------



## dvzzz

You mentioned that Sharp hand picks those panels for Elite but I have just two in a row with terrible DSE on both. I posted pictures on the forum. Do you see DSE on your screens? Sharp wants to send me 3rd unit from Nov 2012 batch but at this point I really have little faith this is <1% issue. 



Robert Zohn said:


> To date, of the thirty or so Elite TVs we have sold and inspected I have only seen one with stuck pixels. It was a 70" and I took it home. It is wall mounted in my living room and our viewing distance is 23' so we can't see the stuck pixels, it has three all on the left side near the top of screen.
> 
> I guess we've been lucky as I have read of one owner on another site that received three TVs so far all with dead or stuck pixels.
> 
> I can tell you this is truly unusual as Sharp hand picks these panels and only selects the very best panels with no dead or stuck pixels and the ones that deliver the highest contrast ration ans screen uniformity.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

dvzzz said:


> You mentioned that Sharp hand picks those panels for Elite but I have just two in a row with terrible DSE on both. I posted pictures on the forum. Do you see DSE on your screens? Sharp wants to send me 3rd unit from Nov 2012 batch but at this point I really have little faith this is <1% issue.


DSE, which stands for the nick-named "Dirty Screen Effect" is actually the limitation of *all LCD based displays* to refresh the screen image faster than the video or film camera operator's horizontal panning speed. Therefore, when the source material is moving for an extended period of time in the same direction faster than, let's say something like 24fps for film or 60fps for most video cameras by the time the video goes through all of the processing of compressing, dropping and recreating frames the consumer display can not recapture motion stability causing a a smear, called DSE and can in many cases cause a blurred image.

PDP, Plasma display panels enjoy the natural benefit of better motion resolution and therefore do not exhibit DSE as frequently or as severe an occurrence. That's because PDP inherently achieve a much faster native Hz, in fact all PDP run at 600Hz. Today's modern high-end PDPs have even an additional benefit by increasing the scanning rates of what effectively equals 2500fps.

The only way to reduce the DSE effect on LCD panels is to increase the scanning rate. You have some choices in the user menu to speed up the panel. The only side effect is an increase in what is referred to as the "Soap Opera" look. 

I don't want anyone to think I am an LCD basher and to set the record straight Elites exhibit less DSE than most if not all other brands and models and is by far the very best display in it's class and it is so superior to other displays that The Elite TVs rival my beloved PDP in the most important pq attribute and that's brightness and MLL. The Elite TV is the King of contrast ration without clipping the lightest shads or deepest hues of all colors.

So plasma's win in the arena of DSE and motion resolution and the Elite wins in regard to brightest and lowest luminance levels.

BTW, you quoted my post about Sharp's quality control procedure of selecting panels that test in the top 1% in regard to all performance and quality attributes. I specifically referenced the advantage of not seeing any dead or stuck pixels and of course there are other attributes Sharp's Q/C testers use in selecting panels to go into the "Elite" TVs. However, DSE is not one of them as nothing can be done to reduce DSE on any LCD display no matter how many you test. 

Hope this helps. 

-Robert


----------



## dvzzz

Robert, thank you for the response. I have been reading a lot on DSE lately, and I am trying to figure out if my Elites had DSE or something else, since both of them had noticeable green bars and blotches, I posted pictures of that and appreciate your thoughts on whether this is a DSE or something entirely different, what stands out is that color -green, not darker grey but noticeable green. This green comes up and disturbes other colors during normal scenes, pls see my pics a couple posts back, if you can. 



Robert Zohn said:


> DSE, which stands for the nick-named "Dirty Screen Effect" is actually the limitation of *all LCD based displays* to refresh the screen image faster than the video or film camera operator's horizontal panning speed. Therefore, when the source material is moving for an extended period of time in the same direction faster than, let's say something like 24fps for film or 60fps for most video cameras by the time the video goes through all of the processing of compressing, dropping and recreating frames the consumer display can not recapture motion stability causing a a smear, called DSE and can in many cases cause a blurred image.
> 
> PDP, Plasma display panels enjoy the natural benefit of better motion resolution and therefore do not exhibit DSE as frequently or as severe an occurrence. That's because PDP inherently achieve a much faster native Hz, in fact all PDP run at 600Hz. Today's modern high-end PDPs have even an additional benefit by increasing the scanning rates of what effectively equals 2500fps.
> 
> The only way to reduce the DSE effect on LCD panels is to increase the scanning rate. You have some choices in the user menu to speed up the panel. The only side effect is an increase in what is referred to as the "Soap Opera" look.
> 
> I don't want anyone to think I am an LCD basher and to set the record straight Elites exhibit less DSE than most if not all other brands and models and is by far the very best display in it's class and it is so superior to other displays that The Elite TVs rival my beloved PDP in the most important pq attribute and that's brightness and MLL. The Elite TV is the King of contrast ration without clipping the lightest shads or deepest hues of all colors.
> 
> So plasma's win in the arena of DSE and motion resolution and the Elite wins in regard to brightest and lowest luminance levels.
> 
> BTW, you quoted my post about Sharp's quality control procedure of selecting panels that test in the top 1% in regard to all performance and quality attributes. I specifically referenced the advantage of not seeing any dead or stuck pixels and of course there are other attributes Sharp's Q/C testers use in selecting panels to go into the "Elite" TVs. However, DSE is not one of them as nothing can be done to reduce DSE on any LCD display no matter how many you test.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Opps, my bad for not looking at your photos before posting I could have saved my DSE 101 class for another time, but it's nice to put out as much correct and easy to understand technical information on advanced user forums as possible. 

What your photos look like to me is poor screen uniformity and way out of whack video settings. Did you mess with the settings or take the pictures in one of the less desirable video modes, like Standard, Vivid or Game?

You have two things going on, one looks like color in the gray scale, caused by poor calibration and the other anomaly looks like poor screen uniformity.

If you are not in the THX mode then switch to that and get settings from Dave Katzmaier's Elite TV review to peak the performance and then post those images for us to see.

Happy New Year!

-Robert


----------



## dvzzz

Thank you. This is THX mode, with AVS's slightly tweaked CNET settings. Not a professional calibration but NW3 did tweaking to bring skin tones in check and tame down cyan. That is what concerns me because this green is visible through other colors. 



Robert Zohn said:


> Opps, my bad for not looking at your photos before posting I could have saved my DSE 101 class for another time, but it's nice to put out as much correct and easy to understand technical information on advanced user forums as possible.
> 
> What your photos look like to me is poor screen uniformity and way out of whack video settings. Did you mess with the settings or take the pictures in one of the less desirable video modes, like Standard, Vivid or Game?
> 
> You have two things going on, one looks like color in the gray scale, caused by poor calibration and the other anomaly looks like poor screen uniformity.
> 
> If you are not in the THX mode then switch to that and get settings from Dave Katzmaier's Elite TV review to peak the performance and then post those images for us to see.
> 
> Happy New Year!
> 
> -Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Did you see the same issue with the prior Elites? Is the green an issue with all sources, broadcast TV, BD, gaming and streaming?

-Robert


----------



## AzMike

Just checked mine.. It's a Nov. 2012 build with no issues & calibrated a week ago. Really sorry to hear this about your set.


----------



## JimShaw

Elite 70 owners. I would like your input.

I am going to get the 70" Elite.

Today, I was at a major TV retailer and found a 70" open box that they are selling it for $4999.99 which I felt was a great price.

After watching for a while and found nothing wrong, the TV was turned off. So, I looked over the panel very closely and this is what I saw: A very small crease in the panel. The crease is the size and looks like someone's thumb nail with a very small indentation. It is not noticeable from a couple feet away and not noticeable while the TV is on.

Is this something I should stay from or is it nothing and worth the savings of $800?????


----------



## dvzzz

Thank you for doing it. I suspect that a bad batch made it to local distribution center in IL, Best Buy contacted Sharp about it but Sharp is saying that there is no way to find out what units are impacted, Sharp is also saying than less than 1% has this issue from Nov 2012 build. Elites are slow moving sales now in wake of CES so replenishment stock is unknown at this point, everyone is waiting to buy Gen 2. 




AzMike said:


> Just checked mine.. It's a Nov. 2012 build with no issues & calibrated a week ago. Really sorry to hear this about your set.


----------



## dvzzz

Yes green is present on all inputs (Roku XS, PopcornHour a300, Oppo 981 DVD and AppleTV) and yes it was on unit 1 and unit 2, but pictures that are posted of unit 1 is with green bars while unit two had subtle green bars but prominent green blotches in the middle. Both were in THX mode but number 2 did not have Cnet settings applied. 
I bought expensive AC line filter top of the line SurgeX thinking I have EMI issues or AC noise but... no just wasted money on the AC filter. 




Robert Zohn said:


> Did you see the same issue with the prior Elites? Is the green an issue with all sources, broadcast TV, BD, gaming and streaming?
> 
> -Robert


----------



## Robert Zohn

Very strange, I have only seen excellent samples of November 2012 builds in both 60" and 70" sizes. We've sold 9 units with November build dates and had zero issues.

Your issues definitely look like a panel problem, but it's a slim possibility that something else is generating the bars or degrading the image. Can you try bypassing the audio receiver and connecting a known good quality HDMI cable directly from one of your known good sources directly to the Elite TV. It would be good to know if the TV is definitely the problem and not anything else in the distribution.

Please don't take this wrong as I fully believe you are simply reporting what your experiencing, but it is very unusual that three 60" Elites passed their rigid q/a-q/c processes.

-Robert


----------



## dvzzz

I was buying 70" and this coming replacement is also 70" but I wonder if I should go with 60" instead, I need 70" since I am 12 feet away from it but given excellent picture quality of Elite I want to keep Elite even if it is 60". I just cannot handle plasma because my kids wAtch a lot of 4:3 material and they will never stretch. 





Robert Zohn said:


> Very strange, I have only seen excellent samples of November 2012 builds in both 60" and 70" sizes. We've sold 9 units with November build dates and had zero issues.
> 
> Your issues definitely look like a panel problem, but it's a slim possibility that something else is generating the bars or degrading the image. Can you try bypassing the audio receiver and connecting a known good quality HDMI cable directly from one of your known good sources directly to the Elite TV. It would be good to know if the TV is definitely the problem and not anything else in the distribution.
> 
> Please don't take this wrong as I fully believe you are simply reporting what your experiencing, but it is very unusual that three 60" Elites passed their rigid q/a-q/c processes.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## jwcole1224

Mine's a November build too, no green screen.
But I do have at least 8 dead sub-pixels (originally found only 3), but most are not visible on normal content.
And none are visible from my normal viewing distance.

I'm not stressing, but this seems like quite a few for such an expensive display.
Would you ask for a replacement or just live with it?

Thanks


----------



## Rukk

JimShaw said:


> Elite 70 owners. I would like your input.
> 
> I am going to get the 70" Elite.
> 
> Today, I was at a major TV retailer and found a 70" open box that they are selling it for $4999.99 which I felt was a great price.
> 
> After watching for a while and found nothing wrong, the TV was turned off. So, I looked over the panel very closely and this is what I saw: A very small crease in the panel. The crease is the size and looks like someone's thumb nail with a very small indentation. It is not noticeable from a couple feet away and not noticeable while the TV is on.
> 
> Is this something I should stay from or is it nothing and worth the savings of $800?????


Hello namesake (My name's James also),

I've owned a 70" since Feb (I got a great deal on it and paid $5600). It was calibrated by Ray Coronado of SoCal Ht and I can tell you that out of the box the PQ is awesome (in THX mode) and after calibration the PQ is AWESOME!!!! I haven't experienced any issues with pulsing (if you've read through posts going back a year you'll notice it's a recurring theme) which I believe has been primarily a problem with the 60" models (someone check me if I'm mistaken). If my set has a "cyan issue" (another recurring theme) I haven't noticed it but it could very well be that my eyes are untrained or the "issue" is trivial and was simply made a big deal of...or I'm very lucky in that I have a flawless set.

Up until the Panasonic VT series PDP's, it's the best tv I've laid my eyes on (I never had the privilege of experiencing a Pioneer Kuro which is still regarded as the best tv's ever made for pq). Truthfully, I think both the Elite and Panny are neck and neck pq wise. 

Bottom line: If you can get a 70" Elite for under $5k and you got to look it over both picturewise and physically....I WOULD GO FOR IT!


----------



## Robert Zohn

dvzzz said:


> I was buying 70" and this coming replacement is also 70" but I wonder if I should go with 60" instead, I need 70" since I am 12 feet away from it but given excellent picture quality of Elite I want to keep Elite even if it is 60". I just cannot handle plasma because my kids wAtch a lot of 4:3 material and they will never stretch.


If you properly break-in a PDP and to further protect the panel in your situation by setting the aspect ratio cropping bars to gray you will greatly reduce the potential for burn in. Burn-in from extended use of static images can even burn-into LCD panels. Black bars look best but that's the cause of the burn-in.

Also consider this.... find where the 4:3 analog channels is simulcast in the HD and if their favorite channel not broadcast in HD find some new children's programming that is available in HD and get them acquainted with some new HD age appropriate content.

-Robert


----------



## mechman

dvzzz said:


> Yes green is present on all inputs (Roku XS, PopcornHour a300, Oppo 981 DVD and AppleTV) and yes it was on unit 1 and unit 2, but pictures that are posted of unit 1 is with green bars while unit two had subtle green bars but prominent green blotches in the middle. Both were in THX mode but number 2 did not have Cnet settings applied.
> I bought expensive AC line filter top of the line SurgeX thinking I have EMI issues or AC noise but... no just wasted money on the AC filter.


Did you try a different HDMI cable? I have a friend who had issues with green anomalies on their screen - projector setup. Turned out it was from the long HDMI cable run that was next to a 12/2 power line run. Check for some sort of a cable issue as well.


----------



## JimShaw

*I would like some serious input to my situation:*

I am going to get a 70" and have a great price of $6200 shipped and ready to go BUT here is my problem. I know where I can pick up a new Elite 70" from a major retailer for $4500.00 plus tax.

Here is the situation:

The TV has a slight indentation about 2/3rds from the top of the screen, about 6" from the right side, around 1/2" long and looks like the end of a thumb nail was pushed into the panel.

I placed Baraka in the player and watched. It was never noticeable until that area had gone to white and nothing was moving. I can barely see it from 14 feet away. No one else watching would even notice it.

This would be a saving of $1350.00 (after taxes) savings from the best pricing that I have so far. I know some of you would NEVER pick up a set with that flaw but WOULD YOU?

My guess is I could live with the flaw that would not be seen that much but not sure??????????

What say you?


----------



## Motoman

JimShaw said:


> *I would like some serious input to my situation:*
> 
> I am going to get a 70" and have a great price of $6200 shipped and ready to go BUT here is my problem. I know where I can pick up a new Elite 70" from a major retailer for $4500.00 plus tax.
> 
> Here is the situation:
> 
> The TV has a slight indentation about 2/3rds from the top of the screen, about 6" from the right side, around 1/2" long and looks like the end of a thumb nail was pushed into the panel.
> 
> I placed Baraka in the player and watched. It was never noticeable until that area had gone to white and nothing was moving. I can barely see it from 14 feet away. No one else watching would even notice it.
> 
> This would be a saving of $1350.00 (after taxes) savings from the best pricing that I have so far. I know some of you would NEVER pick up a set with that flaw but WOULD YOU?
> 
> My guess is I could live with the flaw that would not be seen that much but not sure??????????
> 
> What say you?


I have not bought an Elite set yet but will chime in with my opinion. I'm pretty picky about things like that so for me if I was spending that much cash on a set I would want a fresh new set. Now that is just me. If you don't think it will bother you then save yourself some cash and go for it. 

Does the set still come with the full warranty? What if the issue with it gets worse? Is there still a standard return policy if you get it home and it does start bothering you?

Anyway that is my two cents. Hope it helped. :bigsmile:


----------



## JimShaw

Motoman said:


> I have not bought an Elite set yet but will chime in with my opinion. I'm pretty picky about things like that so for me if I was spending that much cash on a set I would want a fresh new set. Now that is just me. If you don't think it will bother you then save yourself some cash and go for it.
> *
> Does the set still come with the full warranty? What if the issue with it gets worse? Is there still a standard return policy if you get it home and it does start bothering you?
> *
> Anyway that is my two cents. Hope it helped. :bigsmile:


Yes, it does. 100%. I can return it in 45 days if I discovered that it did bug me.


----------



## jmschnur

I would not get the set. The down the line issues would bother me. I think long term and the probability of failures after a few years would be my concern .

Elites should last a decade if properly cared for. This unit was not.


----------



## dvzzz

My point on this, if you are happy with the picture overall and nothing else bothers you, at this price, absolutely grab it. Elite is the best LCD I have seen and I spent months searching, compared to 65hx950, 65vt50, ok maybe VT50 is slightly better but for this price it will be a while before you will see a similar picture From an LCD at 70". $4200 is absolutely great price IMHO. 




JimShaw said:


> *I would like some serious input to my situation:*
> 
> I am going to get a 70" and have a great price of $6200 shipped and ready to go BUT here is my problem. I know where I can pick up a new Elite 70" from a major retailer for $4500.00 plus tax.
> 
> Here is the situation:
> 
> The TV has a slight indentation about 2/3rds from the top of the screen, about 6" from the right side, around 1/2" long and looks like the end of a thumb nail was pushed into the panel.
> 
> I placed Baraka in the player and watched. It was never noticeable until that area had gone to white and nothing was moving. I can barely see it from 14 feet away. No one else watching would even notice it.
> 
> This would be a saving of $1350.00 (after taxes) savings from the best pricing that I have so far. I know some of you would NEVER pick up a set with that flaw but WOULD YOU?
> 
> My guess is I could live with the flaw that would not be seen that much but not sure??????????
> 
> What say you?


----------



## AzMike

"$4200 is absolutely great price IMHO." ... I agree!


----------



## JimShaw

AzMike said:


> "$4200 is absolutely great price IMHO." ... I agree!


No, $4500.00. From what I hear, it is $100 under what BB pays for the set?????????


----------



## JimShaw

As a follow up to the $4500 70" Elite that I purchased from BB but did not take delivery as of yet.

I called Sharp Elite today regarding the small crease in the panel: If anything fails because of that small 1/2" crease such as: pixels die underneath, a small line/crack is created the warranty will not cover it.

Today, I head back to BB and cancel the order.

Thanks forum members for your input. You will make me spend more $$$$ but could have saved me from a massive head ache in the future.


----------



## DJG

Looks like Chris knows his business pretty well 

Whoops! Wrong forum! Never mind ...


----------



## Radtech51

Great seeing you post again Robert! Any news yet on the next upcoming HD Shootout?


----------



## Robert Zohn

Hi Radtech51. I've been posting here steadily, but mostly in other threads. 

I'll have a better idea of when we can schedule the 2013 HDTV Flat Panel Shootout once I speak with the TV manufacturers at CES next week. I'd like to do the Shootout as soon as possible, but we need to include all viable displays so at this moment it's likely to be mid summer 2013 to have all of the models available.

Stay tuned for my CES updates.

-Robert


----------



## rab-byte

Robert Zohn said:


> Hi Radtech51. I've been posting here steadily, but mostly in other threads.
> 
> I'll have a better idea of when we can schedule the 2013 HDTV Flat Panel Shootout once I speak with the TV manufacturers at CES next week. I'd like to do the Shootout as soon as possible, but we need to include all viable displays so at this moment it's likely to be mid summer 2013 to have all of the models available.
> 
> Stay tuned for my CES updates.
> 
> -Robert


Could you have the various reps take a little time to speak to unique features that they think will set the displays apart from others. Web and control integration and the like. 

I know it's an image quality shootout but sometimes it's the little things that can make or break the functionality of a display.


----------



## Radtech51

rab-byte said:


> Could you have the various reps take a little time to speak to unique features that they think will set the displays apart from others. Web and control integration and the like.
> 
> I know it's an image quality shootout but sometimes it's the little things that can make or break the functionality of a display.


lddude: Personally I can care less about the other features built into a TV all of which can be accessed through external devices, Apple TV, Laptop, smart BD-Player etc. The only thing I'm concerned with is the size of the display, picture quality and motion control period. :devil:


----------



## dvzzz

ditto, brilliant statement. I completely agree, seems like true PQ takes second place in the TV discussions often. 



Radtech51 said:


> lddude: Personally I can care less about the other features built into a TV all of which can be accessed through external devices, Apple TV, Laptop, smart BD-Player etc. The only thing I'm concerned with is the size of the display, picture quality and motion control period. :devil:


----------



## JimShaw

Radtech51 said:


> lddude: Personally I can care less about the other features built into a TV all of which can be accessed through external devices, Apple TV, Laptop, smart BD-Player etc. The only thing I'm concerned with is the size of the display, picture quality and motion control period. :devil:


*Ditto also*


----------



## Robert Zohn

We give each manufacturer the floor to present their displays. I ask them to stick to features and their benefits. Our panel of experts do the technical pq presentations.

-Robert


----------



## Motoman

JimShaw said:


> *Ditto also*


Hey Jim did you pull the trigger on a set yet? I know you cancelled the BB order but was just curious what you decided to do. I'm still waiting it out for a couple of more weeks and see what is announced at CES.

Later,

Jim


----------



## dvzzz

*Replacement unit #3*
Folks, put Cnet settings in and you be the judge, with MovieTHX and CNET settings this is how this brand new 70" set looks. Pictures are attached but I really cannot say that I do not see a problem, I see it clearly, camera actually masked it a little. Please tell me how to mitigate it. These spots are indeed green and do show through on the white scenes. 

Please take a careful look now and advise if you can. I would like to keep the set but ... how can I? $7K TV and this level of performance?


----------



## Robert Zohn

I have literally seen more than one hundred Elite displays and none ^^ looked like yours. In fact, screen uniformity is one of the Elite's strong attributes. 

Not sure what's going on, but I suggest you call me so I can put you in touch with the right folks at Sharp's Elite tech management.

-Robert


----------



## dvzzz

I am with you, nobody and I mean nobody complains about this type of issue. I have changed power conditioners, tried direct to the AC, turned off my Synology that is located under the Elite, unplugged all HDMI cables and only connected AC cord, but all these green blotches are there, no difference whatsoever. 



Robert Zohn said:


> I have literally seen more than one hundred Elite displays and none ^^ looked like yours. In fact, screen uniformity is one of the Elite's strong attributes.
> 
> Not sure what's going on, but I suggest you call me so I can put you in touch with the right folks at Sharp's Elite tech management.
> 
> -Robert


----------



## rab-byte

dvzzz said:


> I am with you, nobody and I mean nobody complains about this type of issue. I have changed power conditioners, tried direct to the AC, turned off my Synology that is located under the Elite, unplugged all HDMI cables and only connected AC cord, but all these green blotches are there, no difference whatsoever.


Where do you live? And will you tell me what lotto numbers to pick (so I know what not to choose). 

Are you having the same uniformity issues on every display or has the issue been different every time?


----------



## dvzzz

ha-ha, that is why I am not playing lotto... The root problem is the same green bars or blotches but of course they look different on all 3 TVs, unit #1 green vertical bars that I posted, #2 blotches + 1 bar, #3 you can see above. If there is EMI which is hugely unlikely since I unplug all equipment from the TV and turn it off. Elite is an only that is on.



rab-byte said:


> Where do you live? And will you tell me what lotto numbers to pick (so I know what not to choose).
> 
> Are you having the same uniformity issues on every display or has the issue been different every time?


----------



## rab-byte

dvzzz said:


> ha-ha, that is why I am not playing lotto... The root problem is the same green bars or blotches but of course they look different on all 3 TVs, unit #1 green vertical bars that I posted, #2 blotches + 1 bar, #3 you can see above. If there is EMI which is hugely unlikely since I unplug all equipment from the TV and turn it off. Elite is an only that is on.


I know you've been through all this before... But 

How are the displays arriving at your home; Delivery or are you taking them home yourself?

Is the TV wall mounted or on a tv stand? Can you take us through (step by step) the process from unboxing to powering on. Who is helping you lift the display out of the box? Does the display ever get laid on its back/face? What about in transit?


----------



## dvzzz

Happy to share since I want to win this lottery after all It was delivered by Magnolia (BestBuy) crew in a special truck, these guys are trained by BestBuy how to handle large TV's, sets come in a box, first box was fully sealed with transportation tapes on it, number 2 and 3 came with top open, as it was explained to me, delivery company needs to check that screen is not cracked when they load it into a truck, since I am a picky customer. I checked all TVs and they are fully sealed inside. They use elevators and small cart to roll it vertically. They carry it into the condo, unpack there, then assemble the stand, and they lift it and put on the stand, attach the stand, they put it assembled on my TV stand. I asked if TV ever gets horizontal and they claim No (but who can confirm it for sure). Best Buy has been really great about it, to be frank, surprisingly good, but I think I used up their good will at this point. If I do no find a source of these green spots then I need to call them one more and return. I may appear to be a really picky bastard but I am not, I do not even have a perfect eyesight. I can't say that I bought TVs of this cost ever before, but I have been avid videophile for years with all kinds of NMT media players and Oppo players. My last TV was CCFL 55" IPS-based LG that I calibrated using Xrite meter. It was good but I saved for 2 years for a projector and then I had to downsize and move into a condo without dedicated HT room thus I need an LCD TV given that I have 4 kids that have no desire to care for plasma TV properly. I absolutely like Elite's blacks and I am sure I can fix colors too, however, given that I see green blotches on white scenes is just unacceptable. Family sees them too, BTW. 
Thoughts on how to mitigate these problems are greatly appreciated. 




rab-byte said:


> I know you've been through all this before... But
> 
> How are the displays arriving at your home; Delivery or are you taking them home yourself?
> 
> Is the TV wall mounted or on a tv stand? Can you take us through (step by step) the process from unboxing to powering on. Who is helping you lift the display out of the box? Does the display ever get laid on its back/face? What about in transit?


----------



## rab-byte

Wow
I don't know what to say. That's crazy.


----------



## Radtech51

Robert Zohn said:


> I have literally seen more than one hundred Elite displays and none ^^ looked like yours. In fact, screen uniformity is one of the Elite's strong attributes.
> 
> Not sure what's going on, but I suggest you call me so I can put you in touch with the right folks at Sharp's Elite tech management.
> 
> -Robert


+100


----------



## Radtech51

dvzzz said:


> Happy to share since I want to win this lottery after all It was delivered by Magnolia (BestBuy) crew in a special truck, these guys are trained by BestBuy how to handle large TV's, sets come in a box, first box was fully sealed with transportation tapes on it, number 2 and 3 came with top open, as it was explained to me, delivery company needs to check that screen is not cracked when they load it into a truck, since I am a picky customer. I checked all TVs and they are fully sealed inside. They use elevators and small cart to roll it vertically. They carry it into the condo, unpack there, then assemble the stand, and they lift it and put on the stand, attach the stand, they put it assembled on my TV stand. I asked if TV ever gets horizontal and they claim No (but who can confirm it for sure). Best Buy has been really great about it, to be frank, surprisingly good, but I think I used up their good will at this point. If I do no find a source of these green spots then I need to call them one more and return. I may appear to be a really picky moo but I am not, I do not even have a perfect eyesight. I can't say that I bought TVs of this cost ever before, but I have been avid videophile for years with all kinds of NMT media players and Oppo players. My last TV was CCFL 55" IPS-based LG that I calibrated using Xrite meter. It was good but I saved for 2 years for a projector and then I had to downsize and move into a condo without dedicated HT room thus I need an LCD TV given that I have 4 kids that have no desire to care for plasma TV properly. I absolutely like Elite's blacks and I am sure I can fix colors too, however, given that I see green blotches on white scenes is just unacceptable. Family sees them too, BTW.
> Thoughts on how to mitigate these problems are greatly appreciated.


It's just my suggestion but if I was you I would stop playing this game. :coocoo:
1. Return the set get your money back. 
2. Contact Robert at Value Electronics to get a good Elite. 
3. Problem solved end of story. :T


----------



## dvzzz

If I could I would, the only reason I own an Elite and hang out on this thread is because of the price that BB offered plus 36 months same as cash financing. I know BB is selling them almost at cost just to offload them. Professional dealers like Value cannot afford to do that and I am just not good with haggling, not my style. Robert is helping me even though I did not buy from him, that is classy in my standards! If he stops helping, I would completely understand. 

I see your point what good does it do to have a defective set from BB even at a great price, but then I will just have to be without an Elite and need to go back to Panasonic and LG threads of 55" Edge-lit sets. Actually I belong there more than here given my budget 

I really enjoy support of this forum and trying to help those who are about to buy Elites as much as I can by explaining that my problem is completely isolated just to me and me only. I have run into a bad batch. Nobody should extrapolate my experience to all Elites. If I were Sharp, I would be all over my case with engineers SWATing my condo but instead they called this morning just to take down a serial number and told me that would call back in a few moments, never did, I called 855-Elite just to get a canned, somebody will call you in 2-3 days. Oh, well. 



Radtech51 said:


> It's just my suggestion but if I was you I would stop playing this game. :coocoo:
> 1. Return the set get your money back.
> 2. Contact Robert at Value Electronics to get a good Elite.
> 3. Problem solved end of story. :T


----------



## Radtech51

dvzzz said:


> If I could I would, the only reason I own an Elite and hang out on this thread is because of the price that BB offered plus 36 months same as cash financing. I know BB is selling them almost at cost just to offload them. Professional dealers like Value cannot afford to do that and I am just not good with haggling, not my style. Robert is helping me even though I did not buy from him, that is classy in my standards! If he stops helping, I would completely understand.
> 
> I see your point what good does it do to have a defective set from BB even at a great price, but then I will just have to be without an Elite and need to go back to Panasonic and LG threads of 55" Edge-lit sets. Actually I belong there more than here given my budget
> 
> I really enjoy support of this forum and trying to help those who are about to buy Elites as much as I can by explaining that my problem is completely isolated just to me and me only. I have run into a bad batch. Nobody should extrapolate my experience to all Elites. If I were Sharp, I would be all over my case with engineers SWATing my condo but instead they called this morning just to take down a serial number and told me that would call back in a few moments, never did, I called 855-Elite just to get a canned, somebody will call you in 2-3 days. Oh, well.


I totally understand dvzzz. I'm glad you here are working with Robert though, I'd say you're in very good hands. Please keep us posted on what happens and best of luck.


----------



## JimShaw

I have been talking to Robert of V.L. My new Elite 70" should be on order this Monday. A little scary spending so much $$$ on a TV but if one wants PQ, that is what has to happen.




m


----------



## Motoman

JimShaw said:


> I have been talking to Robert of V.L. My new Elite 70" should be on order this Monday. A little scary spending so much $$$ on a TV but if one wants PQ, that is what has to happen.
> m


Good to hear Jim. I told you Robert was the man :T How long for you to get it? Keep us posted and let us know how it looks when you get it. I'll wait till after CES and see if there is anything I want to wait for or go ahead and get something. 

Thanks

Jim


----------



## JimShaw

Motoman said:


> Good to hear Jim. I told you Robert was the man :T How long for you to get it? Keep us posted and let us know how it looks when you get it. I'll wait till after CES and see if there is anything I want to wait for or go ahead and get something.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jim


Motoman

Robert will order this Monday IF Sharp will guarantee that it will get to me before the 15th. My wife and I leave for a trip and won't be back until the 27th. If not, then he will order around the 27th.


----------



## Motoman

JimShaw said:


> Motoman
> 
> Robert will order this Monday IF Sharp will guarantee that it will get to me before the 15th. My wife and I leave for a trip and won't be back until the 27th. If not, then he will order around the 27th.


Sounds good. :clap: Congrats.


----------



## Radtech51

JimShaw said:


> Motoman
> 
> Robert will order this Monday IF Sharp will guarantee that it will get to me before the 15th. My wife and I leave for a trip and won't be back until the 27th. If not, then he will order around the 27th.


Congrats! :T


----------



## dvzzz

Quick update for my green issues. Sharp has asked to photograph more, I was able to capture better shots. Please take a look and tell me if I am inventing things. This is in THX Movie mode with local dimming on. Somehow I can see all these issues while Sharp engineers cannot. Hope this photos will help them see. If your screens look look similar to min with Calman Field 50% grey pattern then I will quit bothering everyone. This TV#3 is much better than units #1 and #2 but not normal in my eyes. I am seriously thinking about checking with an eye doctor but then I have to take my wife and 4 kids with me to check them too since they see it as well.


----------



## Radtech51

dvzzz said:


> Quick update for my green issues. Sharp has asked to photograph more, I was able to capture better shots. Please take a look and tell me if I am inventing things. This is in THX Movie mode with local dimming on. Somehow I can see all these issues while Sharp engineers cannot. Hope this photos will help them see. If your screens look look similar to min with Calman Field 50% grey pattern then I will quit bothering everyone. This TV#3 is much better than units #1 and #2 but not normal in my eyes. I am seriously thinking about checking with an eye doctor but then I have to take my wife and 4 kids with me to check them too since they see it as well.


From that picture I can see what looks like slightly different color patches, they are rather square in shape with some blue circles in the middle of them. Was anything else done to this picture other then adding the blue circles? How did you capture this image of your screen exactly? 

PS: Try putting in a solid color slide outside of Calman and taking another screen shot. Make sure you are in THX Move mode with Local-Dimming on. Here is what my screen looks like with solid color slides, your screen should look about the same.


----------



## dvzzz

@Radtech51 Please take a look at the same file without my markups, I did markups for slides. I will do solid colors later with lights off. I have taken this image with all processing off but in THX Movie with LD on. Camera is DSLR Nikon on the tripod. No postprocessing to the image


----------



## Radtech51

dvzzz said:


> @Radtech51 Please take a look at the same file without my markups, I did markups for slides. I will do solid colors later with lights off. I have taken this image with all processing off but in THX Movie with LD on. Camera is DSLR Nikon on the tripod. No postprocessing to the image


Looks far from uniform agreed, but it could be all part of the Calman test pattern you have up have you considered that? :sneeky: Try a solid color slide, I used the test patterns through the Disney WoW Blu-Ray disc. Take several exposures at different exposure times with your camera in (RAW) format if you can to capture more detail.


----------



## dvzzz

Yes, I thought it could be the test pattern then I grabbed GetGrey and it was the same, then I grabbed Plasma Burn in Slides from Plasma thread and it does show on their whites and greys too. Looks very much the same. 

To further strengthen the point, I ran Calman patterns both off USB drive and off my PopcornHour A300 with color space set to 16-235 and then to YBCR in Auto. BTW, camera was capturing RAW images and Aperture just converted them to JPEG. 



Radtech51 said:


> Looks far from uniform agreed, but it could be all part of the Calman test pattern you have up have you considered that? :sneeky: Try a solid color slide, I used the test patterns through the Disney WoW Blu-Ray disc. Take several exposures at different exposure times with your camera in (RAW) format if you can to capture more detail.


----------



## Motoman

I can see the green in those slides but I think the worst part of it is you are seeing it on regular program material. Slides are one thing but if it shows up on regular program material from any source then something is not right. Just my 2 cents. 

Jim


----------



## JimShaw

*What we will do to have a 70" Elite
*
Here is what I have to do...

The cabinet in the photo is actually 60" wide. If you look closely, there is a 55" Samsung in the cabinet now.

I laid out tape to see exactly where the new set will go. It will be a 70" Sharp Elite. The inside of the tape is the panel size (60" wide) and the outside of the tape represents the full TV size.

You can see how close it will come to the two 12" mid-bass modules. I talked to Elite today and they said there should be no problem with the mids being that close to the TV (approx. 1").

The TV will actually hang on the outside of the cabinet held into place by an Omnimount articulating large mount attached to a wall. The wall will be built inside the cabinet.

What do you think?

One very nice thing, I have my wife's approval!!!!











m


----------



## Radtech51

JimShaw said:


> *What we will do to have a 70" Elite
> *
> Here is what I have to do...
> 
> The cabinet in the photo is actually 60" wide. If you look closely, there is a 55" Samsung in the cabinet now.
> 
> I laid out tape to see exactly where the new set will go. It will be a 70" Sharp Elite. The inside of the tape is the panel size (60" wide) and the outside of the tape represents the full TV size.
> 
> You can see how close it will come to the two 12" mid-bass modules. I talked to Elite today and they said there should be no problem with the mids being that close to the TV (approx. 1").
> 
> The TV will actually hang on the outside of the cabinet held into place by an Omnimount articulating large mount attached to a wall. The wall will be built inside the cabinet.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> One very nice thing, I have my wife's approval!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> m


Looking forward to seeing the final project. :T


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

How's everyone doing on here? Haven't been on lately... Any news on the Elite front like new TVs or any updates on the existing line? Have no complaints with my TV of course! ;-)


----------



## Radtech51

DJ Mike Fury said:


> How's everyone doing on here? Haven't been on lately... Any news on the Elite front like new TVs or any updates on the existing line? Have no complaints with my TV of course! ;-)


Hi Mike, nothing new or nothing confirmed yet anyway. Their was a rumor of the new Elite line but so far it's just a rumor nothing else. Looks like 4k was the new thing at CES this year, well see what happens with it. Looking forward to the next HD Shootout see how it all plays out in the end.


----------



## mikedit

Any Canucks purchased one of these lately, any help on pricing of a 70 inch model would be greatly appreciated.


----------



## Motoman

I saw over on the "other " forum dvzzz got another replacement set from BB that still has the same issues. I would really like to get a Elite set but this current batch of issues has me a little concerned. 

Are you still visiting here dvzzz? Anybody out there get a later build 60" set that is seeing the same issues?

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## dvzzz

Jim,
yes, I am still here. My 5th set is defective by my standards, I would have accepted grey DSE but this one is just big green egg in the middle with rosy/pink left and right sides. Can I see it? My 4-year old, when asked to show green or red, points to those areas without thinking...

Sharp told me to go to Best Buy and have them open 2-3 boxes while in store in presence of Geeks and choose, problem is that none of the Magnolia stocks 2-3 sets in the same stores nor they will be happy to open 2-3 in row to find the one that works. 

I am with you, I am going there today to check 60" floor model and if it is decent I will try to purchase it. BTW, their 70" floor model is perfect grey, but 3 stuck pixels that are superbright on blacks. 




Motoman said:


> I saw over on the "other " forum dvzzz got another replacement set from BB that still has the same issues. I would really like to get a Elite set but this current batch of issues has me a little concerned.
> 
> Are you still visiting here dvzzz? Anybody out there get a later build 60" set that is seeing the same issues?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jim


----------



## Motoman

That is a shame you have had to go through all this to try and get a decent display. A person makes the decision to spend the extra money and get a 'quality" display and has to deal with stuff like this. I still would like to get one but was going to buy from Robert of VE and I would hate to get one with issues like this and have to deal with it. I don't have the time during the day to deal with something like this. Robert is a top notch guy and I believe would do everything in his power to make it right but I would hate for him or me to have to deal with something like this. 

I wonder if Robert can confirm if Sharp is going to continue the Elite line or not. There was no mention of it at CES that I could see. 

I'm not sure what I will do yet. I may have to stick with my Samsung UN55B8500 still something better comes along. 

Jim


----------



## dvzzz

Yes, we all should wait for official Sharp statement but I got a call yesterday from senior brass at Sharp who saw my posts and he said Elite no more. That is why I am trying to find a good set in the rough if I were you I would stick with what you have. I have sold my old before holiday to help pay for Elite. If I return, we all will be watching iPads I guess it may work. 




Motoman said:


> That is a shame you have had to go through all this to try and get a decent display. A person makes the decision to spend the extra money and get a 'quality" display and has to deal with stuff like this. I still would like to get one but was going to buy from Robert of VE and I would hate to get one with issues like this and have to deal with it. I don't have the time during the day to deal with something like this. Robert is a top notch guy and I believe would do everything in his power to make it right but I would hate for him or me to have to deal with something like this.
> 
> I wonder if Robert can confirm if Sharp is going to continue the Elite line or not. There was no mention of it at CES that I could see.
> 
> I'm not sure what I will do yet. I may have to stick with my Samsung UN55B8500 still something better comes along.
> 
> Jim


----------



## Motoman

What if you bought a 70 from someone like Robert and had it calibrated before shipping? That way they could verify it is a keeper before it ships to you. Maybe Robert will chime in later if that is possible.

Just a thought...:bigsmile:


----------



## DJ Mike Fury

RIP Elite

I may be waiting awhile till another big TV. It's definitely going to be an OLED, best of both worlds. It has to be at least greater than 70" and 4k-8k. I'm sure that would be worth about 100K now. Lol I just can't be sold on more existing hardware out there.


----------



## Rukk

I wanna know how you were able to get your bedroom gear in your signature! I have less characters in my living room setup and STILL HTS won't let me put my bedroom in.


----------



## rab-byte

I saw in an undisclosed location that the current line of Elite was discontinued but I haven't heard one way or another about it being a failed project. Does anyone have hard data on the elite project coming to an end?


----------



## Motoman

DJ Mike Fury said:


> RIP Elite
> 
> I may be waiting awhile till another big TV. It's definitely going to be an OLED, best of both worlds. It has to be at least greater than 70" and 4k-8k. I'm sure that would be worth about 100K now. Lol I just can't be sold on more existing hardware out there.


What do you mean by "Rip Elite" have you heard something you are not sharing :scratch:


----------



## JimP

DJ Mike Fury said:


> RIP Elite
> 
> I may be waiting awhile till another big TV. It's definitely going to be an OLED, best of both worlds. It has to be at least greater than 70" and 4k-8k. I'm sure that would be worth about 100K now. Lol I just can't be sold on more existing hardware out there.


I'm still trying to work out the logic in having a premium display and fall asleep within 35 minutes.


----------



## wingnut4772

Does anyone know how to totally disengage the audio of the set? I had friends over and they cluelessly had the volume on the Sharp at max while also using my Anthem's audio. Echo echo echo ...... I guess the Harmony remote isn't as brainless as I thought.


----------



## Rukk

wingnut4772 said:


> Does anyone know how to totally disengage the audio of the set? I had friends over and they cluelessly had the volume on the Sharp at max while also using my Anthem's audio. Echo echo echo ...... I guess the Harmony remote isn't as brainless as I thought.


Go into the settings and turn the speakers off.


----------



## wingnut4772

Rukk said:


> Go into the settings and turn the speakers off.


Hmmmm ... I was tooling around in there and didn't see that option. I'll look again. Thanks.


----------



## rab-byte

It may be listed as external speakers.


----------



## Motoman

Hello,

Still looking at sets and hope to pick out something soon. Now that the larger Sharp 60" F8000 sets are starting to trickle out it will be interesting to see how they stack up.

Are there any 60" Elites still available in the supply chain? Would you hesitate to buy one at this point?

Maybe Robert can answer part of that last question.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## Robert Zohn

As great as the Sharp Elite TV is I would suggest looking at the new 2013 "F" series large panels from Samsung.

-Robert


----------



## dasanii19

boxpilot said:


> Wow! Those look fantastic. A quick shot of set number three. Notice banding down the middle and on the right side.
> 
> View attachment 37250
> 
> 
> Another shot of my original set. Are those dark square patterns behind the screen from the LED arrays?
> 
> View attachment 37251


So what ever came of this? I have the same issue but am still within my return window. Should I keep it and turn it into warranty or return it? Anyone have any suggestions?


----------



## rab-byte

That's a tuff one. With 4K from Sony coming out and the impressive showings from the new Samsung line. 

I'd say the real question is do you notice it while watching accrual content. If so then maybe another display is called for. If not just enjoy the amazing tv you own.


----------



## dasanii19

rab-byte said:


> That's a tuff one. With 4K from Sony coming out and the impressive showings from the new Samsung line.
> 
> I'd say the real question is do you notice it while watching accrual content. If so then maybe another display is called for. If not just enjoy the amazing tv you own.



But how much are those 4k/Samsung sets. I paid $4250 for the elite 70".


----------



## mikek753

those 4K TV for 2013 can't accept 4K signal above 30 Hz
till new connection will be in place that can do 60 Hz at 4k I don't see much use for 4K panels
and till enough real 4k content will be available

on another side - you might not be so picky about dead pixels on 4k set


----------



## rab-byte

mikek753 said:


> those 4K TV for 2013 can't accept 4K signal above 30 Hz
> till new connection will be in place that can do 60 Hz at 4k I don't see much use for 4K panels
> and till enough real 4k content will be available
> 
> on another side - you might not be so picky about dead pixels on 4k set


I've seen the 55" Sony at a private showing and we installed 84" in a clients home and yes you won't see a dead pixel unless you're right up nose to the panel. 

You're right that the displays will up to 30hz at 4K but that means they will do 24hz at 4K so film reproduction is great. They still handle 2K content up to 60 and scale picture amazingly well. 

At this time most content is still 30hz(1080i) upscaled to 1080p at the box or [email protected] Some live recordings like concerts are 60hz.


----------



## mikek753

Thanks for detailed info about 4K Sony.
I don't know why there is no 60P content, but most 30P/60I and movies at 24P
This 24P has been already like a 100 years and no advancement?
Now another resolution upgrade from 1080HD to 4K and the same old 24 or 30 FPS as it was for SD at 480

I've hoped to see 120 fps at 1920x1080 for sports and action movies as next step, but movie and TV industry keep going with lower frame rates :hissyfit:


----------



## tripplej

rab-byte said:


> I saw in an undisclosed location that the current line of Elite was discontinued but I haven't heard one way or another about it being a failed project. Does anyone have hard data on the elite project coming to an end?


I went by the local Best Buy this past weekend and the sales guy in the television department told me that the Elites had End of Life label ("discontinued") so they were selling the display's at a huge discount. I was surprised to hear this.

Not sure if it is just Best Buy stores that are not selling the Elites anymore or that the Elites are no more for everybody. I do prefer full array instead of Edge Lit LED but since the Elite is not gong to stay, will have to do some research.

I don't want an edge Lit LED so I will start to research the New Panasonic ZT60 model now. onder:


----------



## B- one

tripplej said:


> I don't want an edge Lit LED so I will start to research the New Panasonic ZT60 model now. onder:


Don't forget about Value Electronics shootout Robert has a lot of good things to say about the new Samsung plasma and led displays. I'm waiting to pull the trigger shortly after the event.


----------



## tripplej

B- one said:


> Don't forget about Value Electronics shootout Robert has a lot of good things to say about the new Samsung plasma and led displays. I'm waiting to pull the trigger shortly after the event.


Thanks for the reminder.. I will use that as well to decide which way to go.. 

I do like the Panasonic from what I have read so far thou... I would have preferred the full array LED but looks like hardly anybody is making those now.. Most likely too expensive.. So, the edge Lit LED are out of the question.. Thanks for the reminder..


----------



## B- one

tripplej said:


> Thanks for the reminder.. I will use that as well to decide which way to go..
> 
> I do like the Panasonic from what I have read so far thou... I would have preferred the full array LED but looks like hardly anybody is making those now.. Most likely too expensive.. So, the edge Lit LED are out of the question.. Thanks for the reminder..


I have read the new Samsung f 8000 articles edge lit they sound impressive one rating 9.2 out of 10 overall performance I believe and Robert from VE said it didn't suffer from normal edge lit anomalies. You may want to at least read about I can't wait to see the price of the 75 incher!


----------



## Robert Zohn

Thanks gents for considering our Flat Panel Shootout evaluation so highly. We work very hard to help the a/v enthusiasts make an informed decision on which new display matches their needs best. 

BTW, we have active members from all forums except HTS, anyone want to take on the responsibility to post on HTS from the live event? We have a dedicated bloggers bar with fast Internet access and a comfortable place for your laptop and a commanding view for photography and enjoying the presentations.

Any takers?

-Robert


----------



## mikek753

Robert,

Why you don't want to test Sharp 80" 844 and newer 857?
The 844 is direct lit, while 857 is edge.
It would be nice to know how backlit vs edge diff for almost the same TV.

tnx


----------



## Radtech51

Wish the 70'' Elite could have been in the HD Shootout, it still holds the record for reference Black level and brightness.


----------



## mikek753

Radtech51 said:


> Wish the 70'' Elite could have been in the HD Shootout, it still holds the record for reference Black level and brightness.


I think they just sold out of Elite - that's all.


----------



## tripplej

from twice,



> "Sharp Electronics recently notified specialty A/V dealers handling the jointly administered Sharp/Pioneer Elite TV line that it will not be offering any new models under the premium brand this year.
> 
> Jim Sanduski, Sharp strategic product marketing VP, told TWICE that the company has been unable to acquire a key component part needed for the advanced TVs, which has forced it to put plans on hold for any new products for the foreseeable future.
> 
> He added the company has sold through inventory on models from the prior year.
> 
> “Due to the unavailability of a component, current 60- and 70-inch Elite LED TVs (model numbers PRO60X5FD and PRO70X5FD, respectively) have been discontinued and are no longer available,” Sharp confirmed in a statement Monday. "


----------



## Motoman

I see on some other online sites there are some 60" Elites available. I know some people over at AVS had trouble with some late model 70" builds but haven't seen much about problems with the 60".

I can't go with a plasma (eye issues) so LED is my only choice. I have a Samsung UN55B8500 now which was their last (2009) backlight full array model. From reading on the forums it doesn't sound like the F8000 models are the way to go. Not sure.

Any thoughts? Would you jump on a 60" while some are out there? I don't know if Robert has any available still or not. It would be nice to find a trusted source.

Jim


----------



## mikek753

I'm one who had Elite 70" 2012 Nov build with DSE.
I expected good if not perfect uniformity from Elite based on prev reviews and feedback, but instead on grey test it shows pink and green blobs that made calibration impossible as which one point to choose for sensor reading? Any one pick will shift color to another area.

Ether 12 Nov build already was missing those key components or QC was too relaxed as Sharp already made mind about stopping Elite production - I don't know.

My advice - check Elite before you buy in person.


----------



## JimShaw

Radtech51 said:


> Wish the 70'' Elite could have been in the HD Shootout, it still holds the record for reference Black level and brightness.


It could not be in the Shootout.

There isn't a 2013 model. If it had won in 2012, it would have been there but it didn't


----------



## Radtech51

JimShaw said:


> It could not be in the Shootout.
> 
> There isn't a 2013 model. If it had won in 2012, it would have been there but it didn't


The Kuro is still used as a reference model in it's own category, I was hoping for the same with the Elite. lddude:


----------



## JimShaw

Radtech51 said:


> The Kuro is still used as a reference model in it's own category, I was hoping for the same with the Elite. lddude:


I think the reason the Kuro was in the Shootout was not because it was a "reference model" but because Panasonic had mentioned/advertised that their new plasma would be the new reference model.

Someone step in if I am wrong.


----------



## tripplej

JimShaw said:


> I think the reason the Kuro was in the Shootout was not because it was a "reference model" but because Panasonic had mentioned/advertised that their new plasma would be the new reference model.
> 
> Someone step in if I am wrong.


Yes, you are correct.








> "At the Panasonic Convention 2013 the company launched the ZT65 High-end Plasma TV stating it was a 'KURO KILLER' with beyond Reference Picture Quality. "


Sorry to put this on the Sharp thread. Somehow it morphed into the shootout.. We can go back to Sharp thread..


----------



## Motoman

If you guys could get a new 60" would you still do it? I have found one from a trusted online source with a good price but have no way of getting the build date. Just a little nervous with some of the stories running around with later builds sets having some issues. I'm just not loving these edge lit sets compared to full back lit models like I have now. Maybe I'm better off just waiting out another product cycle.


----------



## tripplej

Motoman said:


> If you guys could get a new 60" would you still do it? I have found one from a trusted online source with a good price but have no way of getting the build date. Just a little nervous with some of the stories running around with later builds sets having some issues. I'm just not loving these edge lit sets compared to full back lit models like I have now. Maybe I'm better off just waiting out another product cycle.


The elite is one of the best full array LED out there. The cost was prohibitive for a lot of folks. But now that they (sharp) discontinued the line and if you can find any still available with huge discount, I say, get it and test it out as soon as you get home. Ensure you have a good return policy so that worse case if any issues are found, you can return it and get your money back.


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## Motoman

tripplej said:


> The elite is one of the best full array LED out there. The cost was prohibitive for a lot of folks. But now that they (sharp) discontinued the line and if you can find any still available with huge discount, I say, get it and test it out as soon as you get home. Ensure you have a good return policy so that worse case if any issues are found, you can return it and get your money back.


That is the rub with online buying. If you get a good one that is great but this would be prety much only returnable/refused for shipping damage. Anything else you would have to deal with Sharp and their warranty.

Thanks..


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## JimShaw

Motoman said:


> If you guys could get a new 60" would you still do it? I have found one from a trusted online source with a good price but have no way of getting the build date. Just a little nervous with some of the stories running around with later builds sets having some issues. I'm just not loving these edge lit sets compared to full back lit models like I have now. Maybe I'm better off just waiting out another product cycle.


Get the serial number and call the Elite section of Sharp and they will give you the build date

1-855-354-8301


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## motogp34

looking into a new TV these are my choices ?

Samsung UN75ES9000
Sharp Elite PRO-70X5FD

so are there some build models to look for and what about refub units, will they be ok ? 

Any thoughts...


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## motogp34

anyone know where to get an elite now, other then ebay


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## JimShaw

motogp34 said:


> anyone know where to get an elite now, other then ebay



I know Best Buy has a few 60" but if 70 is what you want, my guess is, you are out of luck


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## jmschnur

Is there am ipad app that will control these sets?


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## JClam

jmschnur said:


> Is there am ipad app that will control these sets?


Not from Sharp. I use iRule and control my 70" over IP.


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## jmschnur

Thanks


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## g997

JClam said:


> Not from Sharp. I use iRule and control my 70" over IP.


How exactly do you do that?
I can't get iRule to work


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## JClam

g997 said:


> How exactly do you do that?
> I can get iRule to work


I wrote about it on another post:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1351981/irule/5400#post_21281028


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## g997

Awesome!
I'll check it out


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