# Please help! I "lose" sounds in certain songs with 2 Channel Setup



## lofemofe (Jul 29, 2012)

Hey guys, I just bought a pair of used Celestion F30's that i've paired with a sub from my old 5.1 Athena Micra-6 speakers. The problem I'm getting is that when my receiver is on 2 CH mode or Auto Format Decode (which puts it in 2 CH + Sub) I LOSE certain sounds in songs. For example in the song Radiohead - Reckoner I LOSE the High Pitched Guitar (?) melody that enters the song at 10 seconds. When I choose a different mode such as Normal Surround Sound or any other surround sound setting that says PRO LOGIC I can hear the melody. If I play it in a setting called "Semi C.Studio Ex. A" which is PRO LOGIC and is only the front 2 speakers and sub I still get the melody. I'd be okay playing it in this setting but the music sounds COLORED where as normal 2CH + Sub mode sounds more neutral and less distorted.

I have no idea how to fix this problem!
Is it the receiver? The speakers? The source? My HDMI to Optical connection?

This is my first semi HIFI setup. Here is how my system is setup:

Fronts: Celestion F30
Sub: Athena Micra 6 System sub
Rears: Athena Micra 6 System speakers
Center: Celestion F35c
Receiver: Sony STR-DE835

Source: I play MP3s through Winamp on my Laptop -> HDMI out to TV -> Optical in to receiver.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

First, welcome to HTS!! 

Are you just losing high frequencies? I don't have the Radiohead disc mentioned, so I can't check it on my system. It _may_ be that the mode selected (2 CH + Sub) has a different room correction that is rolling-off the highs more than the other modes. That's just a guess.

I'll try to find an online manual for the AVR and get back with you if I find something.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

One other question; did you hear this specific melody _before_ you changed speakers and it suddenly disappeared? I wonder if the processing of the other sound modes is making (OR your old speakers made) it more distinct/noticeable? Just a thought...:scratch:


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## lofemofe (Jul 29, 2012)

Hello! thanks for the welcome! I have a feeling I'll be spending alot of time on here. 

I believe its just that specific high frequency from that song. I was going to post a youtube link to the video with the song mentioned but I am not allowed to post links yet. 

It could be what you are talking about, but I have no idea of how to find that out. I have a link for the receiver's manual too but I can't post links yet lol.

To answer your other question, I didn't get a chance to listen to the song on my old speakers. Listening to the song on my computer speakers, and I can hear the melody loud as day. I can also hear the melody in different modes on my receiver such as surround sound mode.

I hope this info helps you solve my problem cause I am stumped! Thanks again for your help


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## Dotball (Apr 4, 2012)

Welcome to the shack, you will have fun here. 

I'm no expert on surround processors but thought I'd try something simple first. Your speakers might be out of phase (or in phase, depending on how you look at it) and cancelling each other out.

Try swapping the speaker wires on one speaker only and see if that makes a difference. So on front right swap positive and negative at one end only and leave front left alone.

If that doesn't make a difference I will defer to the gurus on here.

BTW you need 5 posts before you can add links, photos, etc. There is a post padding section somewhere on the main page.

HTH
Cheers,


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## lofemofe (Jul 29, 2012)

I'm almost certain I set up the speaker wires correctly. Red to Red and black to black... I always thought if you screwed that up the speaker or receiver could be harmed?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

lofemofe said:


> I'm almost certain I set up the speaker wires correctly. Red to Red and black to black... I always thought if you screwed that up the speaker or receiver could be harmed?


It shouldn't damage the equipment; what you_ usually _hear when speakers are out of phase is, among other things, a loss of bass. It could simply be that the Celestions are giving you a different perspective (sound-wise) than the old speakers and the added processing of other modes brings out this specific melody. I *really* need to hear the song; I'll look for it. :reading:

FWIW- the guitar doesn't really have A LOT of _high_ (> ~3kHz) frequencies [forgive my math if I'm wrong--->the open A (5th string, open) is 440Hz; one octave higher (5th string, 12th fret/3rd string, 2nd fret) is 880 Hz, and an octave higher from that (1st string, 5th fret) is 1760Hz. The next octave (1st string, 17th fret) is 3520 Hz aka 3.52 kHz]. My point is that what you are most likely hearing is in the upper middle range. :scratch:


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## lofemofe (Jul 29, 2012)

So, I'm confused as to exactly what to do to fix the phase or check the phase. I would take the speaker wires that are currently connected to my receiver and swap them?


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## Dotball (Apr 4, 2012)

At one end of one speaker cable (the end at the speaker would probably be easiest) swap the red and black wires.

So at the amp it is still red to red and black to black for both speakers. One of your speakers is still red to red and black to black but the other speaker (can be either) is now red to black and black to red.

If that sounds confusing try changing red and black for positive and negative and it may make more sense.

Try that and see if it makes a difference. It should, just depends on whether it's better or not. :blink:

HTH
Cheers,


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

lofemofe said:


> So, I'm confused as to exactly what to do to fix the phase or check the phase. I would take the speaker wires that are currently connected to my receiver and swap them?


Correct phase is red -to red and black-to-black on both speakers and AVR. Double check the speakers and AVR to see if they are wired correctly. You CAN change the phase as written above to _hear how it sounds_; it will not damage anything.


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## lofemofe (Jul 29, 2012)

Tried switching the wires today guys... and still MISSING SOUNDS. I tried a new song today and noticed more missing sounds. In the song The Doors - Riders on the Storm I can't hear the PIANO AT ALL. So for example the whole PIANO SOLO at 2:44 of the song is gone. Switching back to Surround Sound modes I can hear them. 

Thinking it's gotta be my receiver now, but have no idea how to fix it. I'd hate to have to buy a new receiver... You guys got any other ideas?


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Just a thought, what is your source file? If you are listening to a multichannel recording perhaps the sounds you are missing are only encoded in the surrounds and not front L/R. You mentioned one of the 2ch modes did play the guitar melody, so it would have been downmixing all audio to L/R. The other mode may be playing only L/R and turning the other channels off. 
If your source file is 2 ch, I'm as stumped as you are


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

phreak said:


> Just a thought, what is your source file? If you are listening to a multichannel recording perhaps the sounds you are missing are only encoded in the surrounds and not front L/R. You mentioned one of the 2ch modes did play the guitar melody, so it would have been downmixing all audio to L/R. The other mode may be playing only L/R and turning the other channels off.
> If your source file is 2 ch, I'm as stumped as you are


*phreak*-_IF_ I remember correctly, the "missing sound" only occurs when in 2.1 mode (stereo + sub); he hears them in other modes. :scratch: It could be the room correction OR a bad driver?

*lofemofe*-Is it a 5.1 disc/file? Maybe the melody you hear is mixed hotter in 5.1 and disappears in stereo? Do you have a way to check the new speaker's?


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## lofemofe (Jul 29, 2012)

Hey guys, thanks for the replies. 

Here's some clarification to your questions. The sound goes missing in both 2 Channel Mode and 2.1 Channel Mode. If I switch to a surround sound mode with processing the sound is back. One of the processing modes is called Semi-Cinema A, B, or C. In this mode the sound is 2.1 and the missing sound appears. However, the sound is not as clear as normal 2.1 or 2 CH mode, it sounds processed. The source files are just MP3's. If I was to play the same MP3's out of my computer speakers which are 2.1 I don't have any missing sounds. I can hear the melody and piano parts of Riders on the Storm just fine from my computer speakers.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

lofemofe said:


> Hey guys, thanks for the replies.
> 
> Here's some clarification to your questions. The sound goes missing in both 2 Channel Mode and 2.1 Channel Mode. If I switch to a surround sound mode with processing the sound is back. One of the processing modes is called Semi-Cinema A, B, or C. In this mode the sound is 2.1 and the missing sound appears. However, the sound is not as clear as normal 2.1 or 2 CH mode, it sounds processed. The source files are just MP3's. If I was to play the same MP3's out of my computer speakers which are 2.1 I don't have any missing sounds. I can hear the melody and piano parts of Riders on the Storm just fine from my computer speakers.


It may simply be that the various modes are adding emphasis to the song and makes those parts more distinct (*over*-emphasized). :scratch: It would help if I knew the songs. I'll check back after I get moved just in case this is not sorted-out for you by my cohorts. As I stated in the PM, you are in good hands!


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

I would try to do two things

1) Remove the TV / Optical connection from the equation. HDMI from computer directly to receiver. If you need video, put it after the receiver via HDMI. 

2) Play around in the digital audio output in the laptop and the playback software. It may be processing the sound right there.


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## Dotball (Apr 4, 2012)

lofemofe,

Do the missing melodies play through the center speaker when being played in surround mode?

Do the missing melodies play through the front l/r when being played in surround mode?

You may need to disconnect speakers to confirm this.

I'm thinking the processor is playing them through the center channel which is non existent in 2.1 mode.

Cheers,

BTW put your speaker cables back in phase.


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## lofemofe (Jul 29, 2012)

GranteedEV said:


> I would try to do two things
> 
> 1) Remove the TV / Optical connection from the equation. HDMI from computer directly to receiver. If you need video, put it after the receiver via HDMI.
> 
> 2) Play around in the digital audio output in the laptop and the playback software. It may be processing the sound right there.


Thanks for the reply. I don't have HDMI in the receiver. It's an old receiver. If I play the song directly off my laptop I CAN hear the missing sounds.


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