# SDX10 Tapped Horn vs Trio 12 Loaded Horn



## Cyberfloatie (Jun 1, 2011)

I'm looking at building one of the two of these:

SDX10 Tapped Horn (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/creative-sound-solutions/37767-dual-sdx10-tapped-horn.html)
Trio 12 Loaded Horn (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/creative-sound-solutions/51662-css-trio-12-loaded-horn.html) 

Both projects look pretty awesome but I'm really not sure how to compare them to each other. Can anyone chime in with a summary of their differences and why they would choose one over the other? (I'm looking at you Mark and Jeremy! )

(I'm not looking to start a war, just at the pros/cons of each.)


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## Oklahoma Wolf (Dec 14, 2009)

I knew this was coming eventually. I won't speak for Mark's design... I'm sure he'll be along.

Here are the pertinent facts about mine though:


115dB @ 1M half space, 350W, 17Hz and up. This is within Xmax... you _can_ push the design harder, but I recommend building a second one instead.
F3 is 16.3Hz - anything lower than that you get due to room gain is gravy (I get 15Hz at reference, but not much lower)
Will do 120dB @ 1M, 16Hz, 350W, in quarter space. The design should be able to do this in most room placements. Quarter space is placement by two surfaces, like a wall and the floor.
Must be highpassed at 12-13Hz or so, 24dB/octave, to prevent driver overexcursion below 14Hz if you intend to run it wide open often
Designed for SPL in medium to larger rooms that are open to other areas
Keep the power below 450W if you can... 500W and up is getting into driver damage territory
Configurable as 8 or 2 ohms

Mine's also designed specifically to fit in under 3 sheets of 3/4" ply, with bracing optional. I worked hard to get the whole cost of the project under $500. I also went at this one with the specific intention of getting this one shallow enough to use as a riser. That way, you can hide a couple of them underfoot and scare the guests when they really start unloading.

This design is about the best it'll get for a pair of 10's. I could get a couple more deebz out of it if I made the horn flare more optimal and went with multiple flares, but then you're looking at buying another big sheet of plywood. And honestly, it gets loud enough as is for most people. Especially if you corner fire it in a sealed room, where it'll get closer to the mid 120dB area at a meter.


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## mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2009)

Cons

Not so easy build

Pros

Best manual ever made...... At least I think so.

Cons

Big bad box.

Pros

Oh does it perform! 500 watts will get you 125db in a room with a solid corner. That is 1 Pi modeling. You can add the same type of high pass filter that Jeremy describes.

Higher baseline efficiency than Jeremy's

But all in all pretty much the same passband.

The front loaded horn will sound much cleaner. That I know from a number of comparison experiments that I did.


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## Cyberfloatie (Jun 1, 2011)

Thanks for your input guys! It's been very helpful. 

I've decided to go with the Trio 12 Loaded Horn. Mark has had to source a different driver for me as the Trio 12's are discontinued. (Do we need a new name for this Loaded Horn design now that the Trio12 is no longer available?) The replacement he's found should apparently deliver comparable results, maybe even slightly better. 

The thing I love about Dual SDX10 design and will miss terribly is that it's a good height for a low riser. The loaded horn behemoth will definitely limit my placement options.

What finally pushed me over the edge was Mark's comment on how much cleaner it will sound. I've been a bass player for nearly 20 years and the one thing I know is how hard it is to find an amp and cab that can reproduce the lowest notes with punch and clarity. While I'm certain that both designs can rattle my chest, I long for something that provides clarity and definition first and volume second.

Thanks!


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## Oklahoma Wolf (Dec 14, 2009)

Mine's got plenty of clarity and definition, to the point I'll never build vented boxes again, but Mark's right... front loaded horns do have a lower distortion profile due to the driver being buried way back in there at the throat of the horn. 

Tapped horns are kind of in between vented boxes and FLHs that way. 

That said, I haven't heard his - no idea what it sounds like. I'm not going to make any presumption on how it sounds vs. mine without hearing it first. I do know I love mine


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## mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2009)

All you need is...
:reading:

then

:scratchchin:

then some workin

then:hail:

then

:woohoo: :dancebanana:

arty:


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## Oklahoma Wolf (Dec 14, 2009)

I do believe you just won today's award for most smileys in a post 

I'm taking a break from horns of any kind this year due to lack of cash. I had a smaller 30Hz design I wanted to try that calls for 4 5" drivers, but it's not a priority. Neither is Wolfhorn San Andreas, which is a 15Hz SPL monster that calls for a ridiculously expensive driver.

I've got way more than enough bass - time to rebuild the other speakers in the home theater. That's what I hope to be doing next year.


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## mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2009)

Couldn't resist buddy.

You have a great sense of humour!


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## Oklahoma Wolf (Dec 14, 2009)

No problem. One of these days I should go ahead and do a traditional FLH just to see what it's like. I'm having too much fun with the THs to stop now, though.

My major obstacle these days though is the inability to accurately measure TS parameters. Ever since I measured the impedance of the Tang Band horn and found it to be nowhere near the model, I hate the idea of wasting my time coming up with a good design and having something not track with the final results.

That quad 5" design needs Tang Band drivers. Not crazy about it, but it does have a proper horn flare. It has to, because I want serious half space SPL from a box 7" deep or less on that one. I've seen a couple of those drivers measured, so I'd probably go ahead based on those numbers (not TB's - I know they're all off). Nothing I think will sound real good, but with the depth requirement my driver options are severely limited. Basically going for SPL, SPL, SPL there. It'll become my new computer sub, running off the amp from the old one (thus the need for major horn gain).


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## mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2009)

Let me know the kind of driver you are looking for. I have quite a few in stock for various clients. I can do very detailed measurements rather quickly. If it helps you model, no problem.


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## Oklahoma Wolf (Dec 14, 2009)

W5-1138SMF. Had my eye on the neo version at first, but decided I wasn't going to pay neo prices.


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## kadijk (Jan 23, 2011)

Glad to hear you're getting on with a project. The horn is a big project but well worth the effort and time. It still amazes me every time I listen and i sure do notice a lack of thundering bass when I go elsewhere, especially the theater. I'm looking forward to following along with you in this adventure.


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## mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2009)

Jeremy there are a number of really accurate low cost ways of measuring Thiele Small parameters.

REW 

ARTA

They both have facilities that allow you to make a very simple voltage divider to protect your soundcard and voila you can measure the numbers with the best of them.

ARTA is a really exhaustive program that lets you pull off evy measurement imaginable.

And it is free to!

On another note. I like your choice of driver. I might pull some in and make a car subwoofer with them. A small front loaded horn to scare the daylites out of the younguns!

Be especially interesting if I match it to the cars transfer function or the bass boost. Done well it would allow a small enclosure to really pump up the volume!


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## Oklahoma Wolf (Dec 14, 2009)

I've been meaning to do an X months later update on this build, so I might as well do it now. lilmike's comments about bracing in the F-20 thread at AVS forums reminded me I'm a bit late in doing this.

I am currently at 18 months with the sub, give or take a few days. Learned a few things since the build about what to do and not do when it comes to building these, and I wanted to share my thoughts about it.

First, I am upgrading this unit from "bracing optional" to "bracing _strongly_ recommended." I have not had any problems with this bad boy due to the lack of bracing, but I do know it is not the sub it could be were it completely braced. The driver baffle does flex ever so slightly at high SPL. We don't want that if we are running this box at full blast consistently, thus my change in the recommendation. You can get by without it, mine is proof of that, but it's something I'd like potential builders to start considering. It won't give you its full potential without bracing.

Second, before you build one of these, take the factory gaskets off the SDX drivers first. Those gaskets promote leaks, as I found out the hard way. We don't want that. Best to use the duct seal putty alone.

That's it for now. It's still a low end monster in my home theater... I've lost a few more pieces of stone off the wall by the fireplace since I first fired it up 

To date, best SPL with both horns in use is still 124dB at listening position. I won't let them exceed that. I like having the ceiling _above_ my head, thank you very much.


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## mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2009)

:T


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## Oklahoma Wolf (Dec 14, 2009)

Oops - wrong thread.


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