# Bi-Amping Vandersteen 2ci



## blast8180 (Jun 9, 2008)

I've recently acquired some Vandersteen 2ci's as entry-level speakers into the hi-fi world, I couldn't be happier. I am currently using a Yamaha Rx-v663 to power these, along with other speakers to run a 7.1 system. The 663 manual states that it is possible to bi-amp.

I am wondering whether it would be beneficial (or damage my speakers?) if i were to bi-amp the speakers. I believe they have the low and high pass crossovers separated because these speakers are designed to be bi-wired. If anyone could provide information on if its possible to do this, please chime in. Thanks.

Here is some literature and info regarding the speakers and receiver.

http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/914/index2.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=995796


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## superchad (Mar 7, 2008)

I have known Richard Vandersteen for a bit now, met him and talk to him via phone from time to time and I can suggest you call him but understand that when you do he will advise against it. I cant imagine anyones opinion being more valuable than the owner/designer of the speaker you have and after a pleasant and informative conversation he will tell you dont do it. Richard is around for calls or he will return them for sure so take advantage of this great service.


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## blast8180 (Jun 9, 2008)

Thanks for the quick reply. I'll keep these bi-wired and un bi-amped as intended.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

While Vandersteen recommends biwiring the 2ci, they do state that biamping is an option, as long as one is sure that the amplifiers used are identical and any electronic crossover is not employed. However, it is also stated that while in certain circumstances biamping can provide a sonic improvement, it is slight, and it is better to biwire with a better quality amplifier than to biamp with two amplifiers of lesser quality. In the case of the Yamaha RX-V663, its biamping capability comes from separating two amplifier sections of the receiver so that front channel audio signals are output to the "FRONT A" and "SURROUND BACK/BI-AMP" speaker terminals. The characteristics of the output should be identical offering 95 watts per channel to each pair of speaker terminals, effectively doubling the available output to the loudspeaker. You could try biamping as detailed in the RX-V663 owner's manual. It won't hurt anything, but you will have to evaluate if it improves the sound of your system. The advantage in doing so would be to make more power available to your main speakers, but it comes at the price of then only having a 5.1 system and the "EXTRA SP ASSIGN" only allowing "FRONT B" or "NONE". You should also set the front speakers to "LARGE".


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## blast8180 (Jun 9, 2008)

*Re: Bi-Amping Vandersteen 2ci (and rx-v663 settings)*

Thanks for your input, I will experiment with the advice you have given. I was wondering about setting the fronts to "LARGE". I was reading around and found that when set to "SMALL" the receiver sends all frequencies under the crossover (80hz for the moment) to the sub. I also read that setting it to "SMALL" would allow the receiver to devote more power to the highs. Is the difference negligible? or is the rx-v663 adequate enough to drive these on "LARGE"?

On the topic of crossovers, Is there any insight as to what I should set them to when the 2ci's are paired with a KSW-10 from Klipsch ? Everything sounds okay, meaning that I've followed some guides and gotten it to the point where I can't pinpoint the direction of where bass is coming from but I don't have much experience. Any insight on this?


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## superchad (Mar 7, 2008)

Biamp is an option but as I said I can promise you Richard will advise against it. For music you could run those as large but for LFE I would use 60 or 80HZ crossover.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: Bi-Amping Vandersteen 2ci (and rx-v663 settings)*

First of all ... Welcome :wave:



blast8180 said:


> ... I was reading around and found that when set to "SMALL" the receiver sends all frequencies under the crossover (80hz for the moment) to the sub. I also read that setting it to "SMALL" would allow the receiver to devote more power to the highs. Is the difference negligible? or is the rx-v663 adequate enough to drive these on "LARGE"? ...


This is correct ... You can try both settings and decide which one you like most :yes:, I did the same but couldn't heard the difference ... until I used REW (Room EQ wizard) to measure the response and I saw the difference when using "small" vs "large" setting :bigsmile: ... I'm using a Yamaha RXV2700 to run my JBL Stadiums ... I set them "large".



> ... On the topic of crossovers, Is there any insight as to what I should set them to when the 2ci's are paired with a KSW-10 from Klipsch ? Everything sounds okay, meaning that I've followed some guides and gotten it to the point where I can't pinpoint the direction of where bass is coming from but I don't have much experience. Any insight on this?


Do you have the option to set the crossover for each channel (L,R,C,SR, etc.)??? ... if your eceiver is like mine and have just one option ... set it at 80Hz (that's what most of us use); but you can try different settings. If you set your CI's to large, the crossover setting won't matter because they will get the full signal, and the crossover only will work for the rest of the speakers :bigsmile:


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## blast8180 (Jun 9, 2008)

Ah, understood. Thanks for all the input, I've played around with 60 and 80 hz's, and yes my receiver assigns only one crossover frequency, not one for each channel. I'll tread the forums some more and pick up more useful information, this place seems like a great source of info for someone like myself.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

The Klipsch KSW-10 has a frequency response of 29Hz-120Hz±3dB. The Vandersteen 2Ci has a frequency response of 28Hz-20.125KHz±3dB. To rely on such a sub to take over the LFE bass from the Vandersteens seems counterproductive to me. Leave the Vandersteens LARGE and let them share the low extension load with the Klipsch sub. Three 10" drivers emitting 29Hz-80Hz±3dB frequencies are likely to be better than just one in my estimation.


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

To be perfectly honest, you might consider setting the mains to LARGE and LFE output to BOTH. The Klipsch is a decent sub, but those speakers are really nice too. They seem well matched to share some of the LFE workload. The only problem is I'm not sure the amps in the receiver are quite up to it without bi-amping. I suppose it depends on your room size, how loud you listen and how bass heavy you like it. Anyway...just tossing around ideas.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

hddummy said:


> ... you might consider setting the mains to LARGE and LFE output to BOTH...


We have similar situations (my subs and mains go down to 35Hz :hide ... but my fronts are JBL's :yes:

I have two subs and JBL Stadiums; I set up the receiver to send the sub signal to BOTH (I liked how they sounded) ... but one day I got REW to test the response and the best graph I can get was to leave the fronts LARGE and sub output to SUB not BOTH :unbelievable:

I suggest that you get REW to measure the frequency response and decide the sub output to SUB or BOTH ... in the mean time set front speakers to LARGE and SUB to either BOTH or SUB only :yes:


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

salvasol said:


> I suggest that you get REW to measure the frequency response and decide the sub output to SUB or BOTH ... in the mean time set front speakers to LARGE and SUB to either BOTH or SUB only :yes:


I second that.


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