# Newbie question - Audyssey XT32 user looking to add Behringer DSP 1124 or MiniDSP EQ to use with REW's EQ feature



## sdrucker (Jan 8, 2013)

Hey there,
I'm one of the guys that are building our REW skills on AVS Forum - been a long time lurker here, and finally want to ask some questions about the EQ devices I'm considering to add to my HT setup, for use with REW's EQ feature that can export either auto or manually-generated filters to the EQ device. I've been debating between the Behringer DSP1124 and the MiniDSP in a box line, and the MiniDSP's descriptions sound useful, but are making my head hurt relative to the DSP1124. Thus....here I am.

Currently I have a Denon 4311 with Audyssey XT32+Audyssey Pro, two HSU ULS-15 subs (connected to my AVR with standard RCA sub cables), powered Mythos ST L/R and CS-8080HD center (all run small on speaker wire, with crossovers at 80 Hz and 100 Hz respectively, as per Audyssey and REW FR plots). I run my subs as independent inputs into my AVR, and thus my configration assumes two subs for purposes of controlling level trim and distance. Oh, and I'm using the REW 5.01 build 13 beta for USB mic (UMM-6 calibrated by CSL) and HDMI output.

In the attached chart, I have approx 10 db dips at about 25 Hz, 75-80 Hz, and 90-100 Hz on the subs after Audyssey (purple line) that I'd like to address. When I do L/R+sub plots at 1/6 smoothing, the 70 Hz null largely disappears at +/- 3 db, so I assume it's likely inaudible. I've tried the Pro Curve Editor and adjusting the distance of the subs on the Denon, but this is where I currently net out. Thus I'm considering adding external EQ to improve the post-Audyssey results.

I'm debating between the DSP 1124 and MiniDSP, and have these questions. I know there's a wealth of information about both on the Shack, but it's scattered enough, and mostly seems to be oriented toward DIY or setups that use external amps or are non-Audyssey. Thus, here I go:
a) Given my setup, if wanted the MiniDSP, would I get the balanced or unbalanced 2x4? And which advanced plug-in?
b) Given my equipment, should I be worrying about voltage input/output issues in guiding my choice of MiniDSP in a box?
c) Does the MiniDSP have limitations as to PEQ frequencies as the 1124 (e.g. adjustments only at certain central frequencies like 63 Hz or 80 Hz at 1/6 octave), or is it more sensitive with the Advanced Plug-in? If I'm wrong about both, please tell me
d) Is there any merit in using the delay on the MiniDSP to better address the "distance tweak" I mentioned on the sub's distance setting? I can see having more flexibility with the MiniDSP, as I can do the tweaks there and leave my AVR alone. I know there's some limits with the delay to approximately 8 ft. adjustment, but does that mean that I can only make distance adjustments in one direction (i.e. "further" or "nearer" distance, but NOT both with the device)
e) Are there any other considerations about why I should choose one over the other in terms of suitability? The need for MIDI/USB interface is minor IMHO
f) Finally, is there any reason to think about the FBQ2496, given my goals? From reading the threads about it, the FBQ actually sounds more limited in terms of presets and filters. Is that correct?

Sorry this is long winded, but I"m curious what the thoughts are. I'm new at using manual EQ devices beyond the really, really old days when I had a 24-band graphic equalizer.

I also have a few questions about filter type appropriateness and how far I want to push the Q level, beyond what I currently know about minimizing the number of filters and the degree of change in gain, but I'll save that for either the actual REW forum or our AVS thread.

Thanks in advance,
Stuart


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## jtalden (Mar 12, 2009)

I have no experience with either of those units so I cannot help with your direct questions. I just decided to make an observation and add some other comments in case they help your thought process.

Observation:
It's necessary to average measurements at the same mic locations used for the Audyssey setup to better compare before and after SPL responses. I mention this as this chart looks like it is the result of single LP measurements. Even averaging may not tell the entire story as Audyssey Pro may be doing a more sophisticated analysis of the measurements and making better choices of what EQ treatments to apply. Some room SPL response features are better left with only modest EQ or even without EQ. 

Other Comments:
I only have Audyssey XT and it lacks of the ability to implement a house curve to address my perception of overly bright HF. I am also more interested in learning the manual EQ process than just using an auto setup feature for good results. I therefore don't use Audyssey except occasionally for comparisons to help my learning experience. Audyssey Pro allows some house curve adjustments and provides significantly more EQ power than XT. I suspect it would be very difficult for me to match or improve on it using manual adjustments given only my DCX2496 units. I mention this as many here are looking to achieve high sound quality with minimal time and cost . Some others are more into the DIY aspects, and the additional time and cost is not the major concern for them even given that there may be little or no improvement in sound quality.


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## sdrucker (Jan 8, 2013)

Jtalden:
I'm aware that Audyssey is a multi-position approach: in fact I routinely take 8-12 measurements with my Pro Kit, focusing on MLP, but also areas adjacent to it.

However, for purposes of any initial EQ adjustments, I'm primarily interested in the center seat of our sofa, which is the only MLP for critical HT or music experience. Sadly I'm the only person in our HH that cares about SQ (my wife and son aren't audiophiles), so I'm focusing on the one LP.

However, I'm open to taking more averaged measurements and adjustments after this LP is addressed to build a more robust average.

FWIW, I think that Audyssey, as automated REQ goes, does a fine job. But not neccessarily a complete one once you look beyond predicted curves and 1/6 smoothing, at least for subs.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hi Stuart,




sdrucker said:


> In the attached chart, I have approx 10 db dips at about 25 Hz, 75-80 Hz, and 90-100 Hz on the subs after Audyssey (purple line) that I'd like to address.


I’d say you’re over-analyzing. There aren’t any dips in the purple trace severe enough to be audible, except perhaps the one @ 25 Hz, and even that’s unlikely. The null at 70 Hz is so narrow I'd be surprised if it was audible.

That said, a good outboard parametric EQ would have done a better job at attacking the ~23 Hz peak than Audyssey did.




> c) Does the MiniDSP have limitations as to PEQ frequencies as the 1124 (e.g. adjustments only at certain central frequencies like 63 Hz or 80 Hz at 1/6 octave), or is it more sensitive with the Advanced Plug-in? If I'm wrong about both, please tell me


Can’t tell you anything about the MiniDSP, since I've never used one. But the BFD has extremely fine frequency-stop resolution – 60 per octave. Just to let you know just how good that is, you can get perfectly satisfactory results with an equalizer with only 25 available frequency settings per octave. The BFD also has far more bandwidth setting compared to most hardware parametric EQ’s.




> d) Is there any merit in using the delay on the MiniDSP to better address the "distance tweak" I mentioned on the sub's distance setting? I can see having more flexibility with the MiniDSP, as I can do the tweaks there and leave my AVR alone. I know there's some limits with the delay to approximately 8 ft. adjustment, but does that mean that I can only make distance adjustments in one direction (i.e. "further" or "nearer" distance, but NOT both with the device)


 If the Audyssey program in your receiver isn’t able to set separate delays for multiple subs, then the MiniDSP would definitely benefit you.




> f) Finally, is there any reason to think about the FBQ2496, given my goals? From reading the threads about it, the FBQ actually sounds more limited in terms of presets and filters. Is that correct?


IIR the FBQ has more filters than the BFD (not that you’d ever need as many as it has), but it is correct that the FBD has more limited frequency and bandwidth settings. See here, Posts #10 and #12. And indeed it has no presets.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

Sorry to hijack the thread. I'm having problems with umm-6 and Mac OS. Would you mind sharing how yours is setup? Did you do a sound card cal?

T
Hanks 

Mark


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## sdrucker (Jan 8, 2013)

mark_anderson_us said:


> Sorry to hijack the thread. I'm having problems with umm-6 and Mac OS. Would you mind sharing how yours is setup? Did you do a sound card cal?
> 
> T
> Hanks
> ...


Mark - I use my UMM-6 mic with ASIO4ALL on a 64-bit Windows system, and the beta software with the HDMI capability. Other than some niggling issues where I have to play with my graphics card settings to make sure that the HDMI output is HDMI audio out, so I can pipe the channels output from REW into an HDMI input on my Denon 4311, I haven't had serious issues with REW. Unfortunately I have zero experience with using REW with a MAC OS. 

You should probably take a look at the Getting Started with REW guide on the dedicated AVS thread on REW with HDMI.


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

sdrucker said:


> Mark - I use my UMM-6 mic with ASIO4ALL on a 64-bit Windows system, and the beta software with the HDMI capability. Other than some niggling issues where I have to play with my graphics card settings to make sure that the HDMI output is HDMI audio out, so I can pipe the channels output from REW into an HDMI input on my Denon 4311, I haven't had serious issues with REW. Unfortunately I have zero experience with using REW with a MAC OS.
> 
> You should probably take a look at the Getting Started with REW guide on the dedicated AVS thread on REW with HDMI.


Thanks for reply. I've read pretty much every guide I can find on REW. My HP laptop has HDMI, but only 2ch sounds, so I tried my old macbook pro with bootcamp. It sees all the channels, but no sound when I choose them in REW.


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