# Should I "AMP" it?



## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

I know my question is subjective, but…………….
right now I own a Yamaha RX-V1000 receiver and I do enjoy what it offers for SQ to my current speakers / setup.

Knowing it has pre-outs, I am considering getting an amp for it.

Since I really do-not need or in need of a receiver that has HDMI in/outputs. Do you guys think that getting an amp would be worth doing so with the A/V receiver that I currently have?

Knowing it is couple (well more then a couple of years old) of years old. Would I be missing actually anything as for digital signals that new / current model receivers has to offer? 

Sorry for the “idiot question”, but I been out of the loop for HT a couple of month due to sports training and racing in the mountain bike circuit. So now I am trying to get back into the loop of HT and eating like a hog and watching movies on the sofa (I’m trying to be slouch now) .

My setup is currently 5.1 and plan to stay that way.

~~ If I do need a new receiver I am considering either @ the NAD T747 or the new and upcoming Anthem MRX 300.


Thanks for any comments.

Pics of old skool:dumbcrazy:


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

IMO, If your happy with the way it sounds now then an amp won't change much except give you more headroom. If you have a large room then more headroom or volume is a good thing but if your reciever fills your room with sound now then the thing that will make more of a difference would be a new reciever. You will be able to hear all the new formats with music and movies that your reciever doesn't have the ability to do now. You could pick up a reciever with at least, or more, power then your Yammy has now and you would be all set. You can then add a bluray player and a nice CD player and your good to go. You can look at Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Pioneer Elite, and some others until you find one you like in your price range. If you let us know what you decide and a budget we can make some suggestions. Good luck...:wave:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

An amp would help but only if your speakers are not very efficient. The real big thing you are missing is the uncompressed audio from BluRay. By looking at the rear of the receiver it does not look like it has any multi channel analog inputs this means that you wont be able to receive any of those audio signals from BluRay.


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

Hi Tony -

I have my PS3 (bluray) hook up in optical.


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## Guest (Sep 1, 2010)

I just amped a older Yamaha, but for stereo only, and it was totally worth it. For 5+ different speakers, the cost would really add up quickly, so I'd just get a really good new HT AVR with all the new technology for sound formats and room EQ.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yes, but Optical will not transmit Dolby TruHD or DTS MA. You must use HDMI or multi channel analog and your receiver does not support either. The $200 or so that you will spend on an external amp may be better spent on a receiver upgrade.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I agree with Tony, to get the full potential of your Bluray (i.e. True HD), I would upgrade the receiver vice adding to it. I upgraded an old Denon to my current Yamaha. I connected the Denon to the Yamaha and now use it as the amp for my whole home speakers, using a speaker selector and impedance matching volume controls.


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

*Great to know this 
I did not know that using HDMI for audio signal is better then using optical. I actually thought either way, they both would compare in signals from the BR player. Ok.... looks like I will need to get a receiver with HDMI. I'll still keep the Yami and put it into the bedroom / stereo player. 

Many thanks!! *


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## Kenobi (Aug 11, 2010)

Also, if you get any of the decent receivers with video upconversion, you can also upgrade the picture from your other sources as well--all the way up to 1080P. Not to mention the auto calibration/room correction offered by Audyssey(or competing options) to optimize the sound in your listening environment.

Good luck!

Kenobi


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Kenobi said:


> Also, if you get any of the decent receivers with video upconversion, you can also upgrade the picture from your other sources as well--all the way up to 1080P. Not to mention the auto calibration/room correction offered by Audyssey(or competing options) to optimize the sound in your listening environment.
> 
> Good luck!
> 
> Kenobi


Absolutly agree, Thats why I said a new reciever will make more of a difference then an amp. Processing wins over power sometimes....:flex:


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

All - 

Thanks for the feedback.

After thinking about it, I may consider the plunge.
Since I just killed my funds on a new outlaw sub, I am going to have to look a little cheaper then what I wanted (NAD). So my budget is right at $300.00
Refurb units are cool with me 

I was thinking about Marantz A/V receivers.

Would something like the Marantz NR1501 be good to push my speakers?
Or should I instead look at a unit like the SR-4003?

How would the actual "true" power ratings compare to my Yami?

Thanks

*Note: After reading the specs, I assume that the SR-4003 will not get audio signal: Dolby Truehd / Dts-hd Master Audio ?*


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

AMP it!:T


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

I'm currently running an NAD T-763, which I love. It has no HDMI or Audyssey processing. I'm looking to upgrade, but sadly NAD won't be on my list. They are 12-18 months behind the likes of Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc. They are also much more expensive for a similar feature set. I think their modular approach is very interesting, but I'm betting buying a card (when it's finally available) to move from HDMI 1.3 to 1.4 will cost as much as a mid level receiver. 

If you could bump up your budget a smidge you could get the Onkyo TX-SR608, which is selling for ~$430. It's getting good reviews. I'm looking at the 808, it has Audyssey Multi-EQ and pre-outs if I ever decide to amp it.


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## torceador (Sep 8, 2010)

Well, you asked a subjective question, I'll reply with a subjective answer. I basically always keep a separate amplifier around my main setup for two reasons:

1. I build, modify, and test loudpeakers as pretty much a hobby. If I am connecting an unknown quantity to test, even though I am pretty thorough, I can introduce a low impedance at a particular frequency, or even a dead short (I get excited when 'tinkering' and know I am not alone). Using a discrete amplifier lets me use my regular input setup, yet puts the risk of blown outputs onto the disposable part.

2. Yamaha equipment is known for their natural sounding pre-amps. Moving the gross amplification to a 'mule' amplifier, will keep your overall case temperature down on the Yamaha, perhaps promoting longevity. This really makes a difference if you are in an enclosed cabinet and move the mule outside and use remote switching.

3. What you're getting in newer A/V receivers are more methods of decoding, and not incremental improvements in amplification. Two-channel folks are still wildly in love with vintage equipment.

Personally, I have watched amplifier progression over the years (I started out with 6L6GBs in jukebox amplifiers, as well as the 50L6 in the All American Five sets) move to higher integration and tighter and tighter specs. I view most current 100 watt amplifiers that have an adequate power supply to be interchangeable commodities. I have Class A, Class A/B and Class D solid state amplifiers, as well as vintage tube equipment. As I get older, I am beginning to look at things in a different way.

Off should mean off. In other words, I don't want a piece of equipment on standby to be drawing a lot of power to keep everything powered up but the PA. I used to be worried about performance during warm-up, but now, that's already over by the time you are forced to watch DVD previews that you are not allowed to skip.

$RANT = $OFF

Sorry, but I say this to say there is not much magic in 'matching' a preamp to an amplifier, IMO. I regularly kludge assorted working pieces of equipment together and achieve more than satisfactory results as levels and impedances between stages have been more or less standardized for decades. In fact, I haven't bought NEW for many years, as I pick up 'fried' equipment and return it to service. I learned the love of repair at Meadowbrook TV from Lindy Temple some 35 years ago, and have had a soldering iron in my hand ever since. My opinion might be in the minority, but I know the guys designing the equipment are never the ones writing the advertising copy.

I'll leave you with one of my favorite quotes:

It's your thing, do whatcha wanna do
I can't tell you who to sock it to


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

Thanks you two!!!

Since yet I have got to hear any of the A/Vs that is using HDMI as their audio source to gain both or either Dolby Truehd / Dts-hd. I did talk to a good friend of mine and he told me not to cry a river over those two features that are really not if any of a big deal.

I totaly understand that if I only needed one wire / cable to run "it all" would be neato, but I really careless about how much cables I run. As long as my equipment works is what I really do focus on.

I would love a new A/V unit, but I feel that maybe my Yami still does GET'er done as overall happy with the end results. 

Only flaw that I do not like about my receiver vs others I have owned is the navigation of the menu to select things do get kind of lost. I feel it has no issues of the sound and am happy. I really don't even think I really new a "AMP-it" but would be nice the unload the power to a differnt source and not that my YAMI cannot push these JBLs.

I just added a new center (JLB LC2) and I just have to say WOW!! Much better then the N-center I came from. I think I am not going to get stuck on the gravy train and follow the Dolby Truehd / Dts-hd band-wagon and keep adding to what I have if needed. I still get DTS and DD and love the natural sound I get out of my AV receiver. 

Again, thanks for the feedback and I do get the idea what I will need to get next.

God bless. 

Ω


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

torceador said:


> Moving the gross amplification to a 'mule' amplifier, will keep your overall case temperature down on the Yamaha, perhaps promoting longevity. This really makes a difference if you are in an enclosed cabinet and move the mule outside and use remote switching.


In my short experiance with outboard amplification i really did not notice the AVR to run cooler at all, (which i thought it would) if anything it seemed to run a bit warmer but that could just be my AVR (Denon 3808ci).:dontknow:


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Whether an amp would help depends much on the power that your AVR is pushing and how much work you're having the main speakers do.
I first added an outboard amp (ATI 1506) when I had an older Yamaha AVR (year 1999ish) pushing 12" tower speakers (JBL s312). The amp helped greatly because I was running my tower speakers at full range. If my speakers were crossed over at 80hz to the subs, then I don't think the amp would have made as much of an impact. IMO, most JBL's sound better when pushed with a good powerful amp. Some speakers don't take advantage of more power but I know the JBL Studio line does.
My ATI is a 6 channel amp that I used to power my 5 speakers and it made a very good and noticeable improvement. Then I read a review on my amp that suggested bridging the 6 amps into 3. I did this and holy cow what a difference. Now it can only feed my front 3 speakers but the 12"ers really do punch more and well worth it. 
The ATI was $1200, I don't know if a cheaper amp would have made as much of an improvement.

As far as the new loss-less audio formats are concerned, I think you need to have a good system and listening environment to be able to appreciate the higher quality audio. Might not be able to hear much of a difference through a budget system.


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

*Totally forgot about this post 

This past Friday I did end up purchasing a Denon AVR-1611 a/v receiver. So the old Yami is sitting alone in the dark corner. I do love the natural sound from the old Yami though. I really want to take back what I said about HDMI. It is so much easier and not as messy using HDMI for all video / sound support :yikes:*


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Great!
I loved the sound of my Yamaha also, it was an RX-V???.
You can put that older Yamaha to work in a Zone2 off the Denon.


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## Shackmonster (May 5, 2007)

There has been a lot of very sage advice given already but I'll add my $.02

One thing to be careful of with using an outboard amp is if the pre-outs have sufficient voltage to properly drive the amp. You would be surprised how many receivers have insufficient voltage to properly drive an outboard amp. In fact the Emotiva amps are designed with this in mind. 

Unless you are prepared to spend a pretty good deal of money on your receiver (over $1,000) I would buy the receiver based upon features, NOT specs and surely not power specs. I am not saying everyone needs a $1,000 receiver, most don’t, I am saying that from my experience receivers/amps won’t have much audible difference unless they are pushed into distortion. In fact there has been a $10,000 challenge out there for more than 10 years to anyone who can reliably hear the difference between any two amps of any design as long as they aren’t pushed to distortion. To date thousands of people have taken the challenge including professional reviewers and nobody has even come close to winning the money.

The guys have been correct in mentioning the new sound formats available with Blu-ray, they make a noticeable difference to the sound quality even to the uninitiated. Another good aspect is the room correction software built into the new receivers, this feature can make a fairly significant improvement in many cases though not all.


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## rob95 (Jul 3, 2010)

Great topic and I see that you have made a decision to upgrade your receiver. 
I will add my 2 cents for what its worth. I have primarily used separates throughout my audio / HT life. I had the good fortune of obtaining a Denon AVR 5803 from my cousin. since this had more processing modes and 7.1 than my separate 5.1 setup I switched over. I love HT but 2 ch audio is still very important to me. What I noticed when switching to the Denon was the HT processing modes absolutely blew away my separate set up. The 2 CH mode was very bad. I lost resolution sound stage - clarity. I added my 2 ch Aragon amp to the Denon and the 2 ch audio picked up. Not quite what I'm accustomed to but a marked improvement indeed. Any other limitations I would attribute to the Denon's preamp section or power supply. So in short my unscientific assesment is that an outboard amp will still only be as good as the signal being sent to it.


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

*Status update *

The replaced Denon is put to work and doing very well along with my DefTec Cinema speakers.
I am using my JBL towers as my rear surround.

As of right now, crisp, clean and much happiers since I am now out of the break in period on my Def Tech's. 

In about 3-weeks we're moving into our new CASA and it will have two-living rooms.

The old Yami is going to be used in the front living room, which will basically be a media, game room, loft, library, poker and Chill-Lax area . This area will be 3.0 setup along with a small 32" LCD. 

As the primary living room, the Denon will be put to action with the advanced setup.
I do not feel I need to "AMP" anything at the moment. Extremely happy with the move that I made by not "AMPING" anything. 


For now, this is how it sits (no wires hidden as we're moving out very shortly) 


All, thanks again for all the wonderful feedback.


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Glad to hear you are happy with your choice. As others have said an amp will help but may not have been nearly as noticeable especially if you aren't really stressing your avr. I will say there is a noticeable difference with the newer audio formats, I have tested a/b/c with optical / analog pre-outs / and hdmi and the difference between a standard dd/dts and newer dts-hd/dts-hd ma/dd+/dd true-hd tracks are quite noticeable. Mainly soundstage, noise floor and dynamic range are the biggest improvements. The difference between hdmi and analog preouts was more dependent on player/receiver combination.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I think you made the right choice, and I'm glad it is working out for you. At least this way with the new processing/decoding ability you will have more options for the future, and you aren't limited to older technology. I'm a big Denon fan as well, since I'm still using my technology-limited 2808 in my main system until I can upgrade like you have.


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