# Power Sound Audio XS30 - first impressions



## Todd Anderson

*Power Sound Audio XS30 - Review and First Impressions*

The XS30 is a dual 15” driver sealed sub offered by Power Sound Audio (PSA) as part of its “Power X” subwoofer line. I recently had the good fortune of purchasing two XS30's for my 1800^3 ft dedicated home theater during PSA’s initial pre-order offering. At a cost of $1,149 each and a 5 year transferable warranty, the XS30 represents a phenomenal value offering amazing sound and quality at a very competitive price.

Before digging into the review of the XS30, I’m compelled to speak about my buying experience and the unusually extraordinary customer service that PSA provides. You may have read that PSA's customer service is off the charts. I can 100% confirm that it is in fact _OFF_ the charts! I began looking at PSA’s Power X lineup as a favor for a friend that needed help researching a sub for a new theater system. This is when I was first exposed to comments on various enthusiast sites praising PSA’s personable customer service and buying experience, not to mention solid reviews of their XS15 and XV15 subs. This fueled my own interest in a possible sub upgrade that I had been planning for sometime later this year. That targeted timeframe changed once I began a very open and honest dialog with Tom Vodhanel of PSA. I found several things refreshing about our dialog. Tom never once bashed a competitor, in fact he praised many offerings by competitors. He appeared interested and willing to give advice even if it didn't mean a sale, and was very enthused about the quality of his company’s subs. I'm not sure if PSA can maintain the level of communication I experienced as demand for their subwoofers grows, but the quick response time to emails (not to mention the fact that you are emailing with one of THE designers) and the depth of knowledge sharing was very impressive - a customer’s dream! This level of interaction has remained true even after receiving the subs (set-up advice has been easy to get, detailed, and helpful and PSA has been quick to reasonably respond to any issues). Long story short, my upgrade bug turned into a full-blown ICU septic situation and my better half gave me the nod to proceed with purchasing dual XS30's as a quick sure-shot cure!

Communication about my order remained strong until delivery day. The PSA XS30 is a large sub that requires a large box. My shipment was handled by a freight company. The XS30 is shipped by being strapped to a pallet which the freight company happily delivered directly to my garage. The shipping weight for a single XS30 is roughly 116lbs (145 lbs if you include the pallet), so only plan on moving the box with the aid of a friend, or, if you are lucky, by sliding the box on towels over wood floors. Internally, PSA protects the XS30 with plastic and foam. The unit’s grills are boxed separately, safely sealed in plastic sleeves and surrounded by bubble-wrap, and placed on top of the sub.

 

Now onto the nuts and bolts: The physical characteristics of the XS30. These subs are hulking beasts! Their cabinets are generous in size and, as you may have seen in photos, have a grainy exterior that is black in color. No seams are evident around the exterior of the cabinet. It's a very interesting, if not unique, surface. At first glance, the cabinets appear to have a bit of sheen when exposed to light (initially I was concerned that they would reflect light in my light controlled theater room, however this has proven to be a non-issue). Each sub sports round black rubber feet - roughly an inch thick - set-in several inches in from the sides of the cabinet. In addition to the cabinets, the 15” drivers have a commanding appearance. Overall, I find the XS30’s looks to be edgy and mysterious, and must note that with their grills off and drivers exposed they look refined and ready for one purpose: Bringing serious LFE! 

 

 

 

The cabinets themselves feel ROCK solid. A quick knuckle rap test tells the story. It produces a solid thud (other subs I have on-hand are quite the opposite, sounding hollow and thin compared to the XS30). The cabinet also feels solid when handling. Weighing in at 110 lbs, the XS30 feels secure and robust when lifting and moving around. Picking up an XS30 is almost like picking up a giant brick! 

The XS30 is powered by a 725W (1450W peak) DSP Bash Amplifier. The exterior plate to the amp has “Power X” emblazoned on it. The controls are standard fair: Power toggle (on, auto, off), gain, phase, crossover, power plug, two input jacks, and a small green light that subtly glows when the unit is turned on. The various knobs and switches all feel solid.

 

Each unit comes with a user guide and a power cord. The user guide includes instructions on upacking the unit, advice on room placement, installation procedures, and connecting the subwoofer. My only qualm is that the unpacking instructions are “in” the user guide. It seems to me that those would best displayed on the exterior of the shipping box (or provided in the shipping confirmation email). Most users probably unpack their sub before opening the user manual and any unpacking advice, especially for owners that have never unpacked a subwoofer this heavy, is probably best offered in an easily visible place.

 

Once I unpacked the XS30’s, I began the task of properly placing them within my theater. I tried roughly 6 different placement configurations (center of side walls, center of front and back walls, front corner/back corner, front corner/ 1/4 side wall, 1/4 of side walls, and 1/4 of front wall). After taking REW measurements from 3 different seating positions for each configuration, I decided the best places for the XS30’s are at the 1/4 points along the front wall. This configuration gave the most even response in my room across the center and far-left/far-right seating positions. Because of some space issues, they are turned at a 45 degree angle (pointing toward the middle of the front wall).

Here are the REW room measurements I recorded during placement. I chose the configuration represented by the measurements shown in the upper left graph.

 

 

 

Note, in a light controlled environment, the light reflected from the exterior of the XS30's is hardly visible and a non-issue.

 

Upon setting the gain on each XS30 to about 68-70 dB (when run simultaneously they reach about 78 dB), phase to 0, crossover to 150Hz, and measuring the sub distance using MCACC (note, my Elite AVR manages the crossover which is set at 80Hz), I began the process of equalizing the subs using REW software and a Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro DSP1124 parametric equalizer. After placing 7 filters, I managed a decently flat response to about 19Hz. As you can see, I have a TON of room gain from 40hz right on down to about 10hz. Wow, is right. Just as Tom Vodhanel had predicted, the XS30's use room gain to their advantage. They sink their teeth right into sub-sonic frequencies and take a HUGE merciless bite to about 9Hz before there is any drop off. That is flat-out nasty. 

 


Now to the goods. The meat of the matter. The reason why you are probably reading this.... "HOW DO THEY SOUND," you ask? Let's just say this: Incredible. I have had the pleasure of watching about 10 films over the past 3 weeks. These films have included heavy action titles like Battleship, Dredd, Looper, Prometheus, Warrior, and Total Recall (2012 release) to movies with less emphasis on audio like Jonathan Levein’s 50/50. And what a treat it has been! 

I love bass and shake, hence my seating is wired with 6 bass shakers. Prior to the arrival of the XS30’s, these shakers drove the bass experience our theater. Not any more. Enter the PSA heavy hitters. The XS30’s are now the star of the show. That is not to say the shakers are disengaged. However, they now compliment, rather than lead, the theater’s bass experience. 

What I’ve found through my hours of movie watching is an extremely even, tight, and smooth bass. It’s not localized or one sided in it’s presentation - not in the slightest bit. It can be felt pulsating through the room. It is consistently in control and it never loses its composure. I have driven the XS30’s hard (roughly -4 on my Elite’s dial which is about as much as I am interested in handling). The bass gives and gives and sounds like it could easily give more. With my bass shakers off, the XS30‘s pulsate bass through the couch and have an excellent slam factor. And, wow, can they play low - easily handling 16Hz warble test tones.

From gun shots to the bass lines in AC/DC's "Thunderstruck" to the various LFE's paired with machines and engines, the XS30's really deliver the goods. Impactful, airy, present, and thick. Just a few highlights: As the sky divers jump from the crashing Osprey in Transformers: Dark of the Moon, there is a thumping effect that the XS30’s play as tight, loud, and composed as I have ever heard in my home theater. Same goes for the quick thuds associated with Dan firing his shotgun during his run to the train station in 3:10 Yuma (not to mention, the LFE associated with the train arrival is tight, hard hitting, and *rumblelicious*!). The ultra-low frequency effects in Battleship associated with the forcefield shooting in the air from the alien craft in the water... well, let's just say they it's alive and PULSATES through the room. And, the insanely punishing 10Hz material presented in Dredd is played with authority. Never bottoming out or sounding as if it is simply too much for the XS30’s to handle.

The XS30’s also have a musical side and a softer side. This is completely on display during the movie 50/50. The bass lines from Radiohead’s High and Dry and Pearl Jam’s Yellow Leddbetter (both featured songs in the movie) are wonderfully tight and really show-off the complimentary nature between the XS30’s and my RTiA 5 mains. Never dominant, but wonderfully present. The XS30s also accurately present all the subtle bass that we experience during movies like car doors shutting, distant rumbles, and background music.

I have to mention, during all of the thunderous LFE the XS30’s dish-out during movies, their cabinets remain calm. I have placed my hands on the top and sides of the cabinets on numerous occasions and you’d never know they were subs were on. No vibration, no rattling, practically inert.

If you look at the total package: Reasonable cost and warranty, solid construction, aggressive design, great performance, and top notch customer service. It’s safe to say that Power Sound Audio has a very hot product on its hands. The XS30 is going to give the competition fits. These two units have been a fantastic addition to my home theater experience. If you are in the market for a new sub, do yourself a favor and add one to your short list. You won’t regret it.


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## drdoan

Nice review. These must be great subs! Have fun. Dennis


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## theJman

Thanks for posting that. I'm sure others will benefit from your insight. Sounds like you should be more then set. For a while anyway...


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## Peter Loeser

Sub envy: I has it.


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## tesseract

Todd, thanks for taking the time for this mini review. It's nice to have measurements along with subjective impressions.


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## Walke108

Thanks for the review and great information! I recently bought War of the Worlds to test out my new XS-30. I was thoroughly impressed and just as you said, I really felt the bass. It almost felt like I had a butt kicker under my couch. It was a good bass though that would reverb through the back of my couch in the chest area. I also went through some scenes of the Dark Knight Rises and really enjoyed the rumbling of the Bat as it took off. I think I like the WAF on this one slightly better for the simple fact that it sits am inch lower so is more out of site in my current setup. 

Very happy with my upgrade and should be set for some time to come. Great customer service, great warranty, expectations fulfilled if not exceeded, how can you not beat that plus the bang for the buck factor!


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## 86eldel68-deactivated

Great review, Todd!


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## Todd Anderson

Thanks... If anyone has any questions, I can try to answer them. Not sure if there is much more i can add. I'll post a picture or two tomorrow.


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## ALMFamily

Thanks for the review Todd - now I am REALLY looking forward to the second shipment!


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## Todd Anderson

Definitely! My pleasure. I just spent some time editing the review. I didn't really have a chance to edit my writing this afternoon, but wanted to get it out there. Hopefully I cleaned up the ole' grammar just enough to make it more readable. ;-)


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## Todd Anderson

I've edited the original post to reflect more a review, rather than a first impression. Just to note, PSA has handled all of the first production shipping issues very efficiently and reasonably. I really appreciate their attention and concern to the minor problems they experienced. I would have absolutely zero hesitation recommending them.


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## ALMFamily

Impressed as well - I just got an email from Tom telling me to make sure I take the grills off before moving it so I don't rip them. Now, that is really attention to detail and going above the norm to make sure people take care of their equipment!


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## Todd Anderson

So did I. That's the kind of customer service that people always hope for but never receive. They've definitely got a good thing going in that department!


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## Walke108

27dnast said:


> So do I. That's the kind of customer service that people always hope for but never receive. They've definitely got a good thing going in that department!


Thanks for the update. Always enjoy reading your posts and definitely like reading what others have to say about the same product I have. Nice theater and pictures as well! I couldn't make out the graphs too well, not sure if that's because I am looking on my phone but they are all blurry for me.


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## Todd Anderson

Thanks. I think the graphs will be easy to read on a computer --- probably a bit small for a hand held.


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## JQueen

are you using an amp to push those subs and if you are which one :bigsmile:


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## Todd Anderson

No outboard amp... each XS30 has its own 725W (1450W peak) DSP Bash Amplifier. Plenty of power to get the job done:meter:


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## JQueen

Thanks brotha!


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## jw00dy

Thank you for your review... this sub is on my short list -- I am honestly waiting to see what new products are released before I commit to anything just yet.


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## Todd Anderson

New products from PSA? Or just in general?


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## jw00dy

Specifically PSA since Tom has hinted as such things, but certainly in general too, as I reserve the right to change my mind


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## dominguez1

Nice Review of the PSA! Sounds like a great sub. :clap:

You've got some serious gain at 10hz! What microphone did you use with REW? Did you use correction adjustments for the mic?


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## Todd Anderson

It's a RadioShack SPL... With the correction file. Not totally accurate, for sure. But close enough.


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## dominguez1

That's what I suspected with the hump. I ran into the same thing when I used the Rat Shack. 

If yours is like mine, it's actually fairly accurate without the correction file...at least it is a more closer match to my Omnimic response.

Try it without the correction file. I think you'll be very pleased with how your response looks as it will flatten out that big hump from 10-20hz.


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## Todd Anderson

Remove the correction file?


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## cr136124

Todd thanks a lot for the review on the XS30 subwoofer. Now after six months of ownership, how the subs are performing? Did the sound improved after few months of usage (woofer break in - if you will)?

I'm seriously thinking on buying one of these bad boys for my room. So, I'm wondering on how the subs are performing after half a year at your room. So, any additional input that you can provide / share with me will be highly appreciated. 

BTW - my room is around 4,800 cu. ft.


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## Todd Anderson

cr136124 said:


> Todd thanks a lot for the review on the XS30 subwoofer. Now after six months of ownership, how the subs are performing? Did the sound improved after few months of usage (woofer break in - if you will)?
> 
> I'm seriously thinking on buying one of these bad boys for my room. So, I'm wondering on how the subs are performing after half a year at your room. So, any additional input that you can provide / share with me will be highly appreciated.
> 
> BTW - my room is around 4,800 cu. ft.


Glad it was a helpful read. The subs are fantastic. I'm happy to report I've had zero issues with them (no rattles or signs of weakness/deficiencies). The sound quality has remained excellent. I'm not so sure I can pinpoint any kind of break in, necessarily. But the vast majority of my use is home theater, so it probably might be a bit more difficult to tell (as opposed to listening to music where bass is more isolated). I have watched hundreds of hours of BD movies and several movies (Dredd is one in particular) where there is plenty of material below 20Hz and XS30's have never slipped-up. And I've never once found myself – mid movie – feeling like I made a mistake....the subs have added a unique dimension to our HT environment.

If you're considering the XS30, definitely email or call PSA. They'll give you some good insights and help you pick the product best for your room.

Regards, Todd


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## cr136124

Thanks again Todd!

Man, I already contacted PSA multiple times, Tom has been very helpful answering all my questions during the last several days and I can confirm the high level of commitment they have with their customers or potential customers (like me). I wish other companies provide that same level of support as PSA.

So, I do appreciate your time sharing this extra information on the current status of the subs. I already have two SVS subs, and based on my conversations with Tom, the XS30 will complement the Ultras pretty well. 

I originally used my system 100% to watch movies, but since I made several upgrades to my system, I am more like 60 music and 40 movies..............yeah, big change as you can see. That was the reason I was asking you originally for the break in process.

One difference respect to your subs is that I'm thinking on pulling the trigger on the Cordovan Cherry veneer. Here a couple of pics that Tom shared with me (he already shared this pics in a different thread, so I'm hoping there is no issue on sharing these ones with you guys):





















Thanks again and hopefully in few days I'll be part of the PSA family!


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## Saturn94

Todd Anderson said:


> Glad it was a helpful read. The subs are fantastic. I'm happy to report I've had zero issues with them (no rattles or signs of weakness/deficiencies). The sound quality has remained excellent. I'm not so sure I can pinpoint any kind of break in, necessarily. But the vast majority of my use is home theater, so it probably might be a bit more difficult to tell (as opposed to listening to music where bass is more isolated). I have watched hundreds of hours of BD movies and several movies (Dredd is one in particular) where there is plenty of material below 20Hz and XS30's have never slipped-up. And I've never once found myself – mid movie – feeling like I made a mistake....the subs have added a unique dimension to our HT environment.
> 
> If you're considering the XS30, definitely email or call PSA. They'll give you some good insights and help you pick the product best for your room.
> 
> Regards, Todd


Would you mind sharing the size of your room? Is it sealed or open to other areas?

The reason I ask is that I'm considering replacing my 10 year old SVS 16-46PC+ (ported cylinder design with a native tune of 16hz; I'm getting plenty of response down to 14-15hz) with a pair of XS30's, but my room is pretty open. It's a living room/dining room combo with a cathedral ceiling and open to the upstairs landing, for a total of about 5500 ft3. It's also open to a short hall into the den and another doorway from the dining area to the kitchen (not included int the 5500 ft3 figure).

Others have recommended I look at the XV30f instead due to the volume of my space (they question if I would have much room gain benefit). I've seen some posts where some have exchanged the XS30 for the XV30 for a "more satisfactory" HT experience.

Since my system must do double duty for music and HT, I want the best I can get, within my budget (dual XS30's are at the upper extreme) for both.

Thanks.


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## cr136124

Todd Anderson said:


> Glad it was a helpful read. The subs are fantastic. I'm happy to report I've had zero issues with them (no rattles or signs of weakness/deficiencies). The sound quality has remained excellent. I'm not so sure I can pinpoint any kind of break in, necessarily. But the vast majority of my use is home theater, so it probably might be a bit more difficult to tell (as opposed to listening to music where bass is more isolated). I have watched hundreds of hours of BD movies and several movies (Dredd is one in particular) where there is plenty of material below 20Hz and XS30's have never slipped-up. And I've never once found myself – mid movie – feeling like I made a mistake....the subs have added a unique dimension to our HT environment.
> 
> If you're considering the XS30, definitely email or call PSA. They'll give you some good insights and help you pick the product best for your room.
> 
> Regards, Todd


Ok. I just placed my order on a XS30 - Cordovan Cherry....................:yay2:

Todd.........is all your fault!!!

:rofl:


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## Todd Anderson

Saturn94 said:


> Would you mind sharing the size of your room? Is it sealed or open to other areas?
> 
> The reason I ask is that I'm considering replacing my 10 year old SVS 16-46PC+ (ported cylinder design with a native tune of 16hz; I'm getting plenty of response down to 14-15hz) with a pair of XS30's, but my room is pretty open. It's a living room/dining room combo with a cathedral ceiling and open to the upstairs landing, for a total of about 5500 ft3. It's also open to a short hall into the den and another doorway from the dining area to the kitchen (not included int the 5500 ft3 figure).
> 
> Others have recommended I look at the XV30f instead due to the volume of my space (they question if I would have much room gain benefit). I've seen some posts where some have exchanged the XS30 for the XV30 for a "more satisfactory" HT experience.
> 
> Since my system must do double duty for music and HT, I want the best I can get, within my budget (dual XS30's are at the upper extreme) for both.
> 
> Thanks.


Sure. The room is 12X17 (maybe a tad bigger). It's completely enclosed with the exception of a 3 1/2 ft wide opening... just a little smaller than your space :innocent:. Duals of this power were a tad overkill, but I love bass (especially clean bass) and wanted to be sure they can handle everything I can throw their way (which they do with ease).

I'd talk to Tom at PSA about the differences between the two models you are talking about (and the ways they'd interact with your environment). The ported sub might give a tad more umph in the 20's... but I'm fairly sure Tom will tell you it's negligible and probably not audible. I could be wrong about that, though. Some enthusiasts claim that sealed subs are more musical, etc., but I believe that newer technologies have helped eliminate that delineation. Again, I'd ask the designer and see what he has to say.


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## Todd Anderson

cr136124 said:


> Ok. I just placed my order on a XS30 - Cordovan Cherry....................:yay2:
> 
> Todd.........is all your fault!!!
> 
> :rofl:


Nice:devil:

FYI, don't move it with the grills on (you're likely to break them off).

Enjoy!:boxer:


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## Saturn94

Todd Anderson said:


> Sure. The room is 12X17 (maybe a tad bigger). It's completely enclosed with the exception of a 3 1/2 ft wide opening... just a little smaller than your space :innocent:. Duals of this power were a tad overkill, but I love bass (especially clean bass) and wanted to be sure they can handle everything I can throw their way (which they do with ease).
> 
> I'd talk to Tom at PSA about the differences between the two models you are talking about (and the ways they'd interact with your environment). The ported sub might give a tad more umph in the 20's... but I'm fairly sure Tom will tell you it's negligible and probably not audible. I could be wrong about that, though. Some enthusiasts claim that sealed subs are more musical, etc., but I believe that newer technologies have helped eliminate that delineation. Again, I'd ask the designer and see what he has to say.


Thanks for the additional details.

I have exchanged quite a few emails with Tom. Seems the XS has the advantage in the mid/upper bass and below the XV tuning frequency. Otherwise, the XV has the advantage. He thinks I would be happy with either.

I'm thinking I could use the extra output in the mid teens/twenties more than I need the extra mid/upper bass output, but I'm not sure.

Hehe....it was easier choosing a sub 10 years ago when I bought my SVS 16-46PC+ from Tom since there weren't as many good choices.


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## cr136124

Todd Anderson said:


> Nice:devil:
> 
> FYI, don't move it with the grills on (you're likely to break them off).
> 
> Enjoy!:boxer:


Ok. Thanks for the tip on the grills. Do you really need another person to move this puppy around? I do have hardwood floors at my basement, so I'm just wondering if I need to ask my son to be around to give me a hand.

Well, worst case scenario I can use a towel too.............:T


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## Saturn94

cr136124 said:


> Ok. Thanks for the tip on the grills. Do you really need another person to move this puppy around? I do have hardwood floors at my basement, so I'm just wondering if I need to ask my son to be around to give me a hand.
> 
> Well, worst case scenario I can use a towel too.............:T


Furniture sliders should work well. :T


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## Todd Anderson

Saturn94 said:


> Thanks for the additional details.
> 
> I have exchanged quite a few emails with Tom. Seems the XS has the advantage in the mid/upper bass and below the XV tuning frequency. Otherwise, the XV has the advantage. He thinks I would be happy with either.
> 
> I'm thinking I could use the extra output in the mid teens/twenties more than I need the extra mid/upper bass output, but I'm not sure.
> 
> Hehe....it was easier choosing a sub 10 years ago when I bought my SVS 16-46PC+ from Tom since there weren't as many good choices.


I'd have to go back and look through my discussions with him, but I'd be surprised if you could audibly tell that much of a difference. One thing for sure... if you are looking to light-it-up with ultra low frequencies, the XS30's won't let you down. They go majorly deep, especially with room gain.

I think you'll be happy with either... they are nearly equals. The biggest factor is set-up: Perfect placement and EQ. If you can pull those two off, you'll have it made in the shade.:cowboy:


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## Todd Anderson

cr136124 said:


> Ok. Thanks for the tip on the grills. Do you really need another person to move this puppy around? I do have hardwood floors at my basement, so I'm just wondering if I need to ask my son to be around to give me a hand.
> 
> Well, worst case scenario I can use a towel too.............:T


I have lifted and moved mine on my own... but I'd say it's probably best to have two pairs of hands. I slid the boxes (upon arrival) on towels across hardwood, so to do the same with the actual unit would work well. But generally, given their size, it would be easiest to have two people moving the boxes in the house and removing the units from their boxes. 

The grills come packaged separately, so you won't have to worry about that upon arrival (just don't get lazy when you are moving the subs around to find their sweet spot :T )

Please post some pics once they come!


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## Saturn94

Todd Anderson said:


> I'd have to go back and look through my discussions with him, but I'd be surprised if you could audibly tell that much of a difference. One thing for sure... if you are looking to light-it-up with ultra low frequencies, the XS30's won't let you down. They go majorly deep, especially with room gain.
> 
> I think you'll be happy with either... they are nearly equals. The biggest factor is set-up: Perfect placement and EQ. If you can pull those two off, you'll have it made in the shade.:cowboy:


One of the questions is how much room gain will I get in my large space. Then there's the fact I have limited placement options.

I must say I'm tempted to just try them with the expectation I may have to eat return shipping cost. Perhaps the education would be worth it?


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## cr136124

Saturn94 said:


> Furniture sliders should work well. :T


I don't have furniture sliders at home, and I don't want to spend extra money...............I need to keep saving for a second XS30..........:hsd:

Jokes aside.........thanks for the tip!!!




Todd Anderson said:


> I have lifted and moved mine on my own... but I'd say it's probably best to have two pairs of hands. I slid the boxes (upon arrival) on towels across hardwood, so to do the same with the actual unit would work well. But generally, given their size, it would be easiest to have two people moving the boxes in the house and removing the units from their boxes.
> 
> The grills come packaged separately, so you won't have to worry about that upon arrival (just don't get lazy when you are moving the subs around to find their sweet spot :T )
> 
> Please post some pics once they come!


Thanks again and I'll make sure my son is around on the delivery date.

Yeah, I'll to take a lot of pics....including the truck and the driver too...........:jiggy:


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## Todd Anderson

Saturn94 said:


> One of the questions is how much room gain will I get in my large space. Then there's the fact I have limited placement options.
> 
> I must say I'm tempted to just try them with the expectation I may have to eat return shipping cost. Perhaps the education would be worth it?


There's always value in education, that's for sure. I think we've all gone through it with subwoofers, at least I have.:nerd:

As for room gain, some of it will have to do with placement near boundaries. As for the total size of your space, I'm not sure. You can try pm-ing Dale Rasco (sub-zone on the shack... he might have an answer) and definitely ask PSA directly.


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## Crazykat

Hello everyone, I'm a new member here on HTS.
I had my XS30 sub for close to 5 months now and I'm very happy with it.
PSA is a great company and the Quality, Performance and Customer service is superior.
Tom and Jim will answer all your questions fast and Honest, so send them a Email or Call and try them out, 
You won't be sorry.


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## cr136124

Crazykat said:


> Hello everyone, I'm a new member here on HTS.
> I had my XS30 sub for close to 5 months now and I'm very happy with it.
> PSA is a great company and the Quality, Performance and Customer service is superior.
> Tom and Jim will answer all your questions fast and Honest, so send them a Email or Call and try them out,
> You won't be sorry.


Couple of things here:

First - Welcome to HS!!

Second - Congrats on your XS30

Third - Thanks for the positive and reassuring feedback based on your experience dealing with PSA

Fourth* - Pics or didn't happen!!



*Spoiler* 



* Kidding............or not?


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## Crazykat

cr136124 said:


> Couple of things here:
> 
> First - Welcome to HS!!
> 
> Second - Congrats on your XS30
> 
> Third - Thanks for the positive and reassuring feedback based on your experience dealing with PSA
> 
> Fourth* - Pics or didn't happen!!
> 
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*
> 
> 
> 
> * Kidding............or not?


Thanks for the welcome cr136124.
I haven't gotten around to taking new photo's since I moved my set-up around but here's a couple of old one's for you. 
I had my Mirage C2 center sitting on it ( the center is 25" wide.


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## cr136124

Crazykat said:


> Thanks for the welcome cr136124.
> I haven't gotten around to taking new photo's since I moved my set-up around but here's a couple of old one's for you.
> I had my Mirage C2 center sitting on it ( the center is 25" wide.


Wow................that subs means business....:hsd:

And that Mirage.......man, that Mirage......:clap:

Congrats and thanks for sharing those pics. Oh, is that an Auralex Gramma or is a Great Gramma?


----------



## Crazykat

cr136124 said:


> Wow................that subs means business....:hsd:
> 
> And that Mirage.......man, that Mirage......:clap:
> 
> Congrats and thanks for sharing those pics. Oh, is that an Auralex Gramma or is a Great Gramma?


Ha, thanks.
The PSA is great, and I Love my Mirage speakers.
It's a Auralex Gramma, and it's wide enough but not quite Deep enough.


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## cr136124

Crazykat said:


> Ha, thanks.
> The PSA is great, and I Love my Mirage speakers.
> It's a Auralex Gramma, and it's wide enough but not quite Deep enough.


Thanks! Yeah, I noticed that on the pic and that was the reason I was wondering if it was a Gramma or Great Gramma. 

I'm using Great Grammas on my subs. So, I might wait to receive the XS30 to see how the Great Gramma fits this new sub.

Cheers!


----------



## tesseract

I had a couple of SubDudes under a pair of 21" cubed subs I had. It looked like they kinda floated in mid air, thought it looked pretty cool.


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## Crazykat

tesseract said:


> I had a couple of SubDudes under a pair of 21" cubed subs I had. It looked like they kinda floated in mid air, thought it looked pretty cool.


Yes the Gramma not only helps with acoustical treatment but with aesthetics.


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## hiflyer5

I have been trying to decide between dual XS 30's and dual XV 15's in my 2100 cubic foot room. The room opens to a hallway and kitchen area. Have spoken to Tom and he thought the XV 15's would be sufficient but I have never owned ported subs. Currently running two older 12" Velodynes at the moment. Any thoughts would be appreciated:help:


----------



## theJman

hiflyer5 said:


> I have been trying to decide between dual XS 30's and dual XV 15's in my 2100 cubic foot room. The room opens to a hallway and kitchen area. Have spoken to Tom and he thought the XV 15's would be sufficient but I have never owned ported subs. Currently running two older 12" Velodynes at the moment. Any thoughts would be appreciated:help:


Frankly, either would be more than sufficient for a room that size (depending upon what exactly "the room opens to a hallway and kitchen area" entails space wise). You didn't mention your intended usage, but assuming it's HT -- or at least mostly so -- I'd probably opt for the XS30's. They'll be able to play deeper, which is always beneficial when watching movies.


----------



## gbreda

hiflyer5 said:


> I have been trying to decide between dual XS 30's and dual XV 15's in my 2100 cubic foot room. The room opens to a hallway and kitchen area. Have spoken to Tom and he thought the XV 15's would be sufficient but I have never owned ported subs. Currently running two older 12" Velodynes at the moment. Any thoughts would be appreciated:help:


My room is approx 1800 cubic feet, open to a hallway and also open to a front to back dining room/kitchen. Spoke with Tom on several occasions and he suggested a single XS30 over a single XV15 in order to keep up with my Klipsch Forte mains. He thought the XV15 would suffice the room, but possibly not the mains. I took his suggestion and very glad that I did. 

Have had the XS30 for 3 weeks now and still playing with dialing it in, but overall all I can say is WOW. Even my better half got over the size factor real quick after watching the first movie with the new sub !

BTW, this replaced a Boston Acoustics PV600, a 10" down firing 150W ported sub. I know know what a real sub is like


----------



## Tom V.

theJman said:


> Frankly, either would be more than sufficient for a room that size (depending upon what exactly "the room opens to a hallway and kitchen area" entails space wise). You didn't mention your intended usage, but assuming it's HT -- or at least mostly so -- I'd probably opt for the XS30's. They'll be able to play deeper, which is always beneficial when watching movies.


 That's not bad advice..

We have a tough balancing act at times. My natural instinct is to lean toward the least expensive option that would meet the potential customer's performance expectations. On the OTHER hand, if someone is considering say....dual XV15s and dual XS30s....the last thing we want is for them to be happy with the XV15s....but to always be wondering in the back of their minds..."I wonder what the XS30s would have sounded/felt like with that scene?".

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## jbrown15

My theatre room is basically the exact same size as yours and at first I also thought about going with dual XV15's from PSA, I started emailing with Tom and after exchanging a few emails I had also mentioned that I was also considering going with a sealed sub and was looking at both the JTR Cap S1 and SubMersive HP. Tom suggested holding off a few days because they were just about to announce the release of a new sub. Which turned out to be the XS30!

The XS30 was a very similar design to the SubM HP, so it had my attention right away. After a few more emails with Tom and hearing that two XS30's would have more output then a single SubM HP and still cost quite a bit less while still having a better warranty I was sold. Actually I think I was about the third person to actually order the new XS30.

All I can say is that you will NOT be disappointed if you decide to go with the XS30. It is at times almost scary what dual XS30's can do in a theatre room of only 2100cu./ft!


----------



## gbreda

Tom V. said:


> That's not bad advice..
> 
> We have a tough balancing act at times. My natural instinct is to lean toward the least expensive option that would meet the potential customer's performance expectations. On the OTHER hand, if someone is considering say....dual XV15s and dual XS30s....the last thing we want is for them to be happy with the XV15s....but to always be wondering in the back of their minds..."I wonder what the XS30s would have sounded/felt like with that scene?".
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Pretty much the way that you made your suggestions with me and my setup. At first you were leaning towards the XV15 for cost and room size. The more we talked about my system and my large horns for mains the more you thought about the XS30 to match them. Tom, your advice was dead on and the XS30 has made my system what I have been wanting to be. The only thing that has me thinking is how many people are using 2 of these beasts......I cant imagine what that would do in my setup, but for now 1 is making me grin nonstop :T

As so many have pointed out, PSA has been over the top in customer service and then even better with the product provided! I cannot recommend PSA enough to anyone looking for best bang for their buck on quality BOOM.


----------



## hiflyer5

theJman said:


> Frankly, either would be more than sufficient for a room that size (depending upon what exactly "the room opens to a hallway and kitchen area" entails space wise). You didn't mention your intended usage, but assuming it's HT -- or at least mostly so -- I'd probably opt for the XS30's. They'll be able to play deeper, which is always beneficial when watching movies.


The Jman,

The intended usage is 90% HT and sports at the moment and I do not see that changing. The more I think about with very little difference in size between the two I am leaning towards the XS 30's . Thanks for the help.


----------



## hiflyer5

gbreda said:


> My room is approx 1800 cubic feet, open to a hallway and also open to a front to back dining room/kitchen. Spoke with Tom on several occasions and he suggested a single XS30 over a single XV15 in order to keep up with my Klipsch Forte mains. He thought the XV15 would suffice the room, but possibly not the mains. I took his suggestion and very glad that I did.
> 
> Have had the XS30 for 3 weeks now and still playing with dialing it in, but overall all I can say is WOW. Even my better half got over the size factor real quick after watching the first movie with the new sub !
> 
> BTW, this replaced a Boston Acoustics PV600, a 10" down firing 150W ported sub. I know know what a real sub is like


Gbreda,

Sounds like our rooms are very similar in size and you only have one XS 30?:gulp: What am I getting myself into? LOL!! I currently have dual subs in my room and I find it easier to dial them in with my SPL meter. Not a techie and have not tried anything like the antimode or mini DSP to equalize the subs. Do not have Audyssey as I have an older Classe pre processor that I do not want to replace. What did you use when calibrating your sub? Thanks again for the help. My older Velodynes are definitely showing their age.


----------



## hiflyer5

Tom V. said:


> That's not bad advice..
> 
> We have a tough balancing act at times. My natural instinct is to lean toward the least expensive option that would meet the potential customer's performance expectations. On the OTHER hand, if someone is considering say....dual XV15s and dual XS30s....the last thing we want is for them to be happy with the XV15s....but to always be wondering in the back of their minds..."I wonder what the XS30s would have sounded/felt like with that scene?".
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Tom V,

You have been very helpful so far with all of the e-mail communication that we have had offline. Can't say enough about your customer service and dedication. Top notch and kudos to you. This is a tough decision and I want to make the right choice. Haven't changed subs in 10 years and hopefully will get the same out of your fine product. The XS 30's will keep me from wondering what I am missing because I do not have room for dual Triax's and unless you have something in the near future looks like the XS 30's will be my choice.


----------



## hiflyer5

jbrown15 said:


> My theatre room is basically the exact same size as yours and at first I also thought about going with dual XV15's from PSA, I started emailing with Tom and after exchanging a few emails I had also mentioned that I was also considering going with a sealed sub and was looking at both the JTR Cap S1 and SubMersive HP. Tom suggested holding off a few days because they were just about to announce the release of a new sub. Which turned out to be the XS30!
> 
> The XS30 was a very similar design to the SubM HP, so it had my attention right away. After a few more emails with Tom and hearing that two XS30's would have more output then a single SubM HP and still cost quite a bit less while still having a better warranty I was sold. Actually I think I was about the third person to actually order the new XS30.
> 
> All I can say is that you will NOT be disappointed if you decide to go with the XS30. It is at times almost scary what dual XS30's can do in a theatre room of only 2100cu./ft!


Jbrown15,

That is what I am afraid of with these beasts!! I will have to nail down everything in the room when I put on Flight of the Phoenix for a test drive:unbelievable: Tom had taken the same conservative path with me recommending the XV15's. You got to like someone that doesn't push product because of a higher dollar! 

Any recommedations on nails or Velcro to hold things from falling off the wall:yikes:


----------



## gbreda

hiflyer5 said:


> Gbreda,
> 
> Sounds like our rooms are very similar in size and you only have one XS 30?:gulp: What am I getting myself into? LOL!! I currently have dual subs in my room and I find it easier to dial them in with my SPL meter. Not a techie and have not tried anything like the antimode or mini DSP to equalize the subs. Do not have Audyssey as I have an older Classe pre processor that I do not want to replace. What did you use when calibrating your sub? Thanks again for the help. My older Velodynes are definitely showing their age.


Hiflyer5,

Great name...are you a pilot or does it refer to something else?

I am not much or a techie either and just started reading about REW, mini dsp, antimode etc...really trying to wrap my head around the jargon there. Its a hobby for me so paying with things to see if a change is better or worse is on the fun side for me. Being back on the forums, I found about using the sub crawl method to place the sub and boy was I surprised at the peaks an nulls that I found. Luckily my old Boston Acoustics sub still worked well enough to use that for the test as using the XS30 in my listening area would be a real pain.

Regarding 2 XS30's....the one makes my whole house vibrate and shake plus have plenty of mid bass slam. If I had not been back on the forums again lately, I would not even know about dual subs for evening out acoustics.

Currently I am using an Onkyo pre pro that has Audessey XT to eq the system. I use an SPL meter to set up the level of each speaker but as of now that is it. My pre pro allows me to change each speaker's crossover point so I do adjust those after running Audessey, but this is all done by ear. Onkyo pre amp sets my mains and surrounds to full range as they are capable but I find that the mains at 55 or 60 and the surrounds at 70 really are sounding best so far...still tweaking though.

Bounce as much off of Tom and go with your gut...with that approach I don't think you can go wrong. I lucked out and scored an XS30 from the Outlet so I saved a few bucks. I was on the fence and when it came available, I jumped at it....so glad that I did too !!


----------



## Todd Anderson

Make sure you guys equalize your XS30's... once you tighten them up.... wow!:devil:


----------



## gbreda

Todd Anderson said:


> Make sure you guys equalize your XS30's... once you tighten them up.... wow!:devil:


Todd, this is where I am at right now. I have been off the forums for years to keep the upgrade bug at bay and now reading all about subs: dual subs, equalizing the subs, REW, placement etc.

I have to say the reading is confusing as much as informative. Like most forums there are so many opinions. My issue is that I am at square one in this area. What to I need for equipment that does not break the bank? What mic for REW and do I need a soundcard or do I go with a usb mic and the laptop card? Is there a reasonable option to get good results for reasonable $$? Then it is how do I eq the sub to tighten it up? Do I use the pre pro eq (currently Onkyo 886 but that may change), Audessey XT, an outboard sub eq device or all of the above?

Sorry if this is off topic or in the wrong area, but as I stated I am at square 1 in this area.


----------



## Mike0206

I have been pondering the xs30 for a few months as well. I thought I was dead set on an svs sb13 ultra but I like the idea of dual opposed 15's in a sealed enclosure. All your guys thoughts on this sub as well as what I'm hearing about PSA customer service also has me leaning towards this sub. However, All you guys who are talking about this sub and running duals etc.....are in much smaller spaces then what I would be putting it in. I'm at around 7000 cu ft of space(34Lx22Wx9H)so my question is would dual xs30's fill that up or would it be better to do xv30's or better yet hope to win the triax giveaway lol! I know it's asking a lot of the subs to fill my space as I don't think a space as large as mine would be able to benefit to much from room gain but I have no idea. I like the footprint of the xs30 and the price but not sure if it would suffice do to the lack of room gain I would get in my space. What are your thoughts Tom V? Would dual xs30's work?


----------



## theJman

Mike0206 said:


> I'm at around 7000 cu ft of space(34Lx22Wx9H)so my question is would dual xs30's fill that up or would it be better to do xv30's or better yet hope to win the triax giveaway lol!


That's a cavernous area you have there, so the XV's might be the better choice. Output is definitely your friend, and ported subwoofers excel at that.


----------



## Mike0206

theJman said:


> That's a cavernous area you have there, so the XV's might be the better choice. Output is definitely your friend, and ported subwoofers excel at that.


 thanks for the input Jman, and I suppose the Triax being sealed wouldn't be much better than 2 xv's would it? Couldn't afford one triax anyways let alone two!


----------



## Todd Anderson

gbreda said:


> Todd, this is where I am at right now. I have been off the forums for years to keep the upgrade bug at bay and now reading all about subs: dual subs, equalizing the subs, REW, placement etc.
> 
> I have to say the reading is confusing as much as informative. Like most forums there are so many opinions. My issue is that I am at square one in this area. What to I need for equipment that does not break the bank? What mic for REW and do I need a soundcard or do I go with a usb mic and the laptop card? Is there a reasonable option to get good results for reasonable $$? Then it is how do I eq the sub to tighten it up? Do I use the pre pro eq (currently Onkyo 886 but that may change), Audessey XT, an outboard sub eq device or all of the above?
> 
> Sorry if this is off topic or in the wrong area, but as I stated I am at square 1 in this area.


Start a thread up in the REW section... folks will definitely chime in to help out.

The quick response is: For using REW, I was able to use my Macbook line-in. You can buy a calibrated microphone for about $100 or so (which is the preferred method) or you can buy a radio shack SPL meter (and download a calibration file). You'll need a tri-pod for the mic/spl meter. Then to calibrate the sub, I bought a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD 1124P) for under $100... downloaded the REW guide to programing it. You basically run a sub-out cable to the BFD... then a cable from the BFD to your sub. You use REW to run bass sweeps... look at the resulting graph... and then do a little BFD programing... repeat until you are satisfied with the output graphs. The goal is to eliminate giant peaks (you really don't want to mess around with boosting nulls). 

All the documentation is there... you just need to read carefully and ask a lot of questions in the forum. You will get where you want to go.

Now, if you have an AVR with Audyssey XT or XT32, then you can try to see if that route will work. If the results aren't pleasing, then do the above!

At the end of the day, EQ-ed subs are (in my opinion) are one of best bang-for-you-buck moves you can make... it's worth the effort.


----------



## jbrown15

Mike0206 said:


> I have been pondering the xs30 for a few months as well. I thought I was dead set on an svs sb13 ultra but I like the idea of dual opposed 15's in a sealed enclosure. All your guys thoughts on this sub as well as what I'm hearing about PSA customer service also has me leaning towards this sub. However, All you guys who are talking about this sub and running duals etc.....are in much smaller spaces then what I would be putting it in. I'm at around 7000 cu ft of space(34Lx22Wx9H)so my question is would dual xs30's fill that up or would it be better to do xv30's or better yet hope to win the triax giveaway lol! I know it's asking a lot of the subs to fill my space as I don't think a space as large as mine would be able to benefit to much from room gain but I have no idea. I like the footprint of the xs30 and the price but not sure if it would suffice do to the lack of room gain I would get in my space. What are your thoughts Tom V? Would dual xs30's work?


Honestly with a room of that size I wouldn't take a SB13-ultra over a XS30. There is a XS30 owner that actually has both the SB13-ultra and XS30, he was telling me that he did prefer the SB13-ultra over the XS30 for music use but it wasn't by a large margin. But when it came to HT use it was even close. The XS30 had quite a bit more output and he preferred it quite a bit more over the SB13-ultra for movies.


----------



## jbrown15

gbreda said:


> Hiflyer5,
> 
> Great name...are you a pilot or does it refer to something else?
> 
> Regarding 2 XS30's....the one makes my whole house vibrate and shake plus have plenty of mid bass slam. If I had not been back on the forums again lately, I would not even know about dual subs for evening out acoustics.
> 
> Currently I am using an Onkyo pre pro that has Audessey XT to eq the system. I use an SPL meter to set up the level of each speaker but as of now that is it. My pre pro allows me to change each speaker's crossover point so I do adjust those after running Audessey, but this is all done by ear. Onkyo pre amp sets my mains and surrounds to full range as they are capable but I find that the mains at 55 or 60 and the surrounds at 70 really are sounding best so far...still tweaking though.
> 
> Bounce as much off of Tom and go with your gut...with that approach I don't think you can go wrong. I lucked out and scored an XS30 from the Outlet so I saved a few bucks. I was on the fence and when it came available, I jumped at it....so glad that I did too !!



Another benefit of running dual subs is that the subs don't have to work has hard either. Before I bought my dual XS30's I honestly wouldn't have bothered to get dual subs. Of course after having them and beginning to read a lot more of the benefits of multiple subs I don't think I'd ever go back to just having one sub in my theatre room.


----------



## Mike0206

jbrown15 said:


> Honestly with a room of that size I wouldn't take a SB13-ultra over a XS30. There is a XS30 owner that actually has both the SB13-ultra and XS30, he was telling me that he did prefer the SB13-ultra over the XS30 for music use but it wasn't by a large margin. But when it came to HT use it was even close. The XS30 had quite a bit more output and he preferred it quite a bit more over the SB13-ultra for movies.


 Well that's good to know, thanks for the input. My mains are powered and do pretty good handling most music by themselves so the subs I decide upon will be mainly for HT. Hmmm.......XS30's or XV30's or Triax?......decisions decisions.


----------



## jbrown15

Mike0206 said:


> Well that's good to know, thanks for the input. My mains are powered and do pretty good handling most music by themselves so the subs I decide upon will be mainly for HT. Hmmm.......XS30's or XV30's or Triax?......decisions decisions.


Yeah you have a huge room, honestly if it was me I'd buy a Triax now before the pre-order pricing goes up and maybe think about adding a second one down the road. Your room is so large even dual XV30's might have a tough time pressurizing it.


----------



## Tom V.

Mike0206 said:


> I have been pondering the xs30 for a few months as well. I thought I was dead set on an svs sb13 ultra but I like the idea of dual opposed 15's in a sealed enclosure. All your guys thoughts on this sub as well as what I'm hearing about PSA customer service also has me leaning towards this sub. However, All you guys who are talking about this sub and running duals etc.....are in much smaller spaces then what I would be putting it in. I'm at around 7000 cu ft of space(34Lx22Wx9H)so my question is would dual xs30's fill that up or would it be better to do xv30's or better yet hope to win the triax giveaway lol! I know it's asking a lot of the subs to fill my space as I don't think a space as large as mine would be able to benefit to much from room gain but I have no idea. I like the footprint of the xs30 and the price but not sure if it would suffice do to the lack of room gain I would get in my space. What are your thoughts Tom V? Would dual xs30's work?


 Hi Mike, 

Which receiver/processor and speakers are in the system? Do you have sub(s) in the room now---if so, which?

1)if you go with svs, you'd need multiple sb13u to have a chance in this room size...duals at least, likely 4-6. check with them and I'd bet they'll lean toward multiple PB13ultras. 

2)with larger rooms like this you have a few initial considerations. First, will the system be oriented toward one side of the room? This will determine the distance between the sub(s) and the key seating. Second, room gain won't be a significant factor for boosting the deepest bass although I'd still expect you to see some <35hz. Maybe a dB or 2 by 20hz, and 3-5dB by 10hz. Room gain can be a bit tricky to predict but even in large areas it is not uncommon to see quite a bit of boost. http://www.nousaine.com/pdfs/Monster Bass.pdf Check the "TP 8-12 transfer function" in this link. 8000 cu-t room area and PVG starts around 30-35hz, +5 at 20hz, +9 at 15hz. Glance over the other rooms too---the entire piece really if time allows. Third, you do have benefits to the larger room. The room induced peaks/dips will tend to be less severe---particularly if the subwoofers are placed relatively close to the seating positions. 

3)The frequency response shaping for the XV30 and XS30 is quite similar so I'd expect you to see strong output/extension from both options down to the 15-17hz range. The XV30s will roll off rapidly around this point(15-17hz) because it is vented with a tuning point in the upper teens. The XS30s will have a much more gradual decline in their response. I cannot guarantee a tremendous amount of capability at 10hz, but I'd expect you to experience some tactile energy when the source material includes really strong bass <15hz. Both systems also offer really potent mid/upper bass output capabilities. In the 45-100hz range I'd guess either one system(assuming duals) would give you more output than you'll need----which is always a good thing! The biggest difference between the XV30s and the XS30s is in max clean output through the 15-35hz range. On averaged, the XV30s will have a 4-5dB edge here. Now, there's two sides to this output edge. A) it IS significant---representing almost double the bass in acoustical terms. B)on the other hand, it is important to remember that this output advantage will only be audible when the dual XS30 approach their limits in this bandwidth. 

To know just WHEN dual XS30s would approach their limits(or *if* they would) we need to know a few things.

Do you have the subwoofer placement predetermined to some degree? For example, is the plan to place on sub in each front corner of the room layout? If so, what will the average distance from the sub(s) to the seating be---just roughly?

Assuming the system is calibrated, how close to reference levels do you tend to push action oriented DVDs?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## labman1

I have the XS15 in a 12x15x8' room. The room has an opening in to a small hall and a opening in to the dining room. I went to the XS15 from a PB12 ultra and could not be happier. Gives me all I want in HT and is very tight for music much improved over the Ultra. I might be missing a couple Db's in the 12-16hz range but the accuracy on music well makes up for it. Talked to Tom when going to the XS15 since he designed the Ultra, and me being use to 2 woofers and he told me in my space this should be the ticket and it was. If I feel I'm missing something, hell at that price I'll grab another.:spend:


----------



## Mike0206

Hi Tom and thanks for the reply! I will do my best to sift through your post and answer all your questions.


Tom V. said:


> Hi Mike, Which receiver/processor and speakers are in the system? Do you have sub(s) in the room now---if so, which?


My system consists of a Marantz SR6007 receiver, def tech BP-8060ST left and right speakers with built in 300watt class d powered "subs" they are 10" active drivers in each speaker with 2 10" passive radiators in each as well. They are obviously not traditional subs but with REW the do measure down to about 30hz before they drop off severely. I am using the speakers LFE inputs to run them as subs though. My center channel is the def tech CS-8060HD and has an 8" 150 watt class d sub in it but the LFE input is not being used on it. My rear speakers are def tech SR-8040BP surrounds. 



Tom V. said:


> 2)with larger rooms like this you have a few initial considerations. First, will the system be oriented toward one side of the room? This will determine the distance between the sub(s) and the key seating..... Do you have the subwoofer placement predetermined to some degree? For example, is the plan to place on sub in each front corner of the room layout? Do you have the subwoofer placement predetermined to some degree? For example, is the plan to place on sub in each front corner of the room layout?


The room runs east to west with the east wall being where the tv and speakers and probably subs are located. That wall is 22' wide and the speakers are 11'4" apart and 11' from the main seating area. The subs would probably be placed one in corner on the southeast wall and the other would need to be placed inside the left speaker cause there is an opening to a hallway at the northeast corner of the room. The north side of room would not be able to accept any subs as it has an opening to another hallway and it's open to the entry(factored in to the 7000cu ft.) and neither would the west wall as that is all kitchen cabinets. I could place subs on the south wall or east wall. Here is a pic of the wall with the gear










I'm wondering if both subs should just be set inside the main speakers on that wall? The top 4 cubbies I actually filled with r-30 and wrapped burlap around a frame so those are essentially my DIY bass traps. I have other treatments in the room as well if that matters.



Tom V. said:


> If so, what will the average distance from the sub(s) to the seating be---just roughly? Assuming the system is calibrated, how close to reference levels do you tend to push action oriented DVDs? Tom V. Power Sound Audio


The average distance depending on placement inside or outside of the mains would be around 12ft. The sub on left side would possibly be closer than the sub on the right if I didn't place both subs inside the mains. My listening volume is usually at reference with action movies and my reference is calibrated at 84-85db. Thanks again for your reply and looking forward to hearing what you think with this added info.


----------



## Tom V.

Mike0206 said:


> Hi Tom and thanks for the reply! I will do my best to sift through your post and answer all your questions.
> 
> 
> My system consists of a Marantz SR6007 receiver, def tech BP-8060ST left and right speakers with built in 300watt class d powered "subs" they are 10" active drivers in each speaker with 2 10" passive radiators in each as well. They are obviously not traditional subs but with REW the do measure down to about 30hz before they drop off severely. I am using the speakers LFE inputs to run them as subs though. My center channel is the def tech CS-8060HD and has an 8" 150 watt class d sub in it but the LFE input is not being used on it. My rear speakers are def tech SR-8040BP surrounds.
> 
> 
> 
> The room runs east to west with the east wall being where the tv and speakers and probably subs are located. That wall is 22' wide and the speakers are 11'4" apart and 11' from the main seating area. The subs would probably be placed one in corner on the southeast wall and the other would need to be placed inside the left speaker cause there is an opening to a hallway at the northeast corner of the room. The north side of room would not be able to accept any subs as it has an opening to another hallway and it's open to the entry(factored in to the 7000cu ft.) and neither would the west wall as that is all kitchen cabinets. I could place subs on the south wall or east wall. Here is a pic of the wall with the gear
> 
> 
> View attachment 44145
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if both subs should just be set inside the main speakers on that wall? The top 4 cubbies I actually filled with r-30 and wrapped burlap around a frame so those are essentially my DIY bass traps. I have other treatments in the room as well if that matters.
> 
> 
> 
> The average distance depending on placement inside or outside of the mains would be around 12ft. The sub on left side would possibly be closer than the sub on the right if I didn't place both subs inside the mains. My listening volume is usually at reference with action movies and my reference is calibrated at 84-85db. Thanks again for your reply and looking forward to hearing what you think with this added info.




Hi Mike,

1) Even though the 8060s extend pretty deep(for full range speakers) they seem to strain a bit <50hz from the data I've seen. If you do add separate subs I'd experiment with the crossover for the speakers in the 50-80hz range. 

2)I'd start with one subwoofer in the SE corner of the room and experiment a bit with the second. You may find both stacked in the SE corner works best. Or, you may find the second down the South wall works best. 

3)I'm not 100% sure on the description of your listening levels. When you say "my reference is calibrated at 84-85dB".....does that mean you calibrated all speakers to 84-85dB on a SPL meter? The 6007 has the Audyssey auto-setup feature but you didn't use that? I'm probably making this more confusing than I need too..

With the placement discussed and the subwoofers an average of say...4 meters from the key seating...dual XS30s would be in the 118-127dB range through the mid/upper bass range(45-100hz). From there the maximum output capability will gradually lessen as the frequencies drop. I'd expect a clean 109-115dB from 16-25hz for example. With everything calibrated *even*(bass is not calibrated hot) you will be fine for full reference level playback down to the 40hz range. If you extended things down to 16-20hz, -6 to -9dB from reference. 

Also, with the XS30s(all of our products really) you don't have to worry about audible clunks, clangs from over-loading. Once the XS30s approach their output limits they will simply stop getting louder with no audible signs of distress in normal circumstances. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Mike0206

Hi Tom thanks for the reply again. To answer your question about listening levels yes I calibrated each individual speaker at 84-85db with the Disney WOW disc and an SPL meter. When movies are on and there is full action going on then I do get 105db-110db peaks at times. I hope that is a better description of my listening levels. I have calibrated it with audyssey as well several times due to adding room treatments and the like. The volume stays pretty consistent between audyssey on and audyssey off. Not sure what audyssey sets reference levels at but it seems close to what is calibrated with the WoW disc and my SPL when I set my receiver to reference(0db). I hope that is what you were looking for regarding my listening levels. 

Southeast corner is exactly where I was thinking one sub would go if I only got one. Did not think of stacking but that might be the best option. South wall 1/3 from east wall would also hit 90 degrees from listening position so that is also a possibility. I do understand what you mean about the 8060's as the do seem to suffer with low frequencies. In my room I do have a significant drop at around 60db but wasn't sure what was causing that. Here are some pics of my 8060st frequency response charts from Rew:



















I do have what seems to me to be decent response a hair below 40hz but not sure how to interpret that when compared to what a true sub would do. 

So is it your opinion that dual XS30's would serve me well in my room? It seems with all the info you have helped me with I would be more than satisfied going that route.


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## Tom V.

Hi Mike,

When you pop in the WOW disc and begin the manual speaker level sequence does the receiver default to a *00* on the master volume control? If not, what does the master volume display? 

Second question---what does the master volume display when you are watching a film(dvd or blu-ray) at your louder listening levels?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Mike0206

Hello Tom, I actually set the master volume to 0.0db on the AVR then adjust levels on each speaker manually until the SPL meter reads between 84-85db for each speaker. The subwoofer level I set +3db to 87-88db. This is with the wow disc test tones. When watching movies I usually set master volume between -5.0db and 0.0db. Edit: just got home and popped in Tron Legacy and the scene where Sam gets zapped into the grid and the carrier ship arrives reads 103db on my SPL meter. Most action sequences in the movie appear to be running at around 95db. I hope that helps some. This is at the main listening position with audyssey on but dynamic volume off and the AVR master volume at 0.0db


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## Tom V.

Mike0206 said:


> Hello Tom, I actually set the master volume to 0.0db on the AVR then adjust levels on each speaker manually until the SPL meter reads between 84-85db for each speaker. The subwoofer level I set +3db to 87-88db. This is with the wow disc test tones. When watching movies I usually set master volume between -5.0db and 0.0db. Edit: just got home and popped in Tron Legacy and the scene where Sam gets zapped into the grid and the carrier ship arrives reads 103db on my SPL meter. Most action sequences in the movie appear to be running at around 95db. I hope that helps some. This is at the main listening position with audyssey on but dynamic volume off and the AVR master volume at 0.0db


 Hi Mike,

That's good info.. *00* on your master display = reference level. You have the bass 2-3dB hot---which is fairly common. With all speakers set to small and rerouting their bass to the sub(s) you would ideally have 121-124dB of headroom. I'd say 115-118dB would be the minimum to target as this would give you uncompressed playback with most source material. (and just about all source material at -5)

Dual XS30s would get you the latter(115-118dB down to the 16hz range I'd estimate. Dual XV30f subwoofers would add about 4.5 to that as they have so much more efficiency in the 15-35hz range. No surprise of course---twice the size and ported. So if the larger size of the XV30f isn't a deal breaker that would be my first choice for you. You would be in the 118-124dB range from 15-30hz. And from 35hz and up...just a violent amount of impact capabilities.

So the dual XS30s would give you all the output you will need at your -5 listening level. But for uncompressed listening at *00* (and with the bass 3dB hot)...dual XV30fs are the better choice.

Each 8060 tower measured 103.6 averaged from 20-31hz per CEA-2010. The new XV30f is around 121.75 for the same test. 18dB. Assuming your towers "sum" for a 5dB gain down low....that is 13dB. Another way of looking at that is it would take about ten 8060 towers to match the dual XV30f system. If you do decide to upgrade, you will realize very audible benefits in the overall system performance..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Mike0206

Tom V. said:


> Hi Mike, That's good info.. *00* on your master display = reference level. You have the bass 2-3dB hot---which is fairly common. With all speakers set to small and rerouting their bass to the sub(s) you would ideally have 121-124dB of headroom. I'd say 115-118dB would be the minimum to target as this would give you uncompressed playback with most source material. (and just about all source material at -5) Dual XS30s would get you the latter(115-118dB down to the 16hz range I'd estimate. Dual XV30f subwoofers would add about 4.5 to that as they have so much more efficiency in the 15-35hz range. No surprise of course---twice the size and ported. So if the larger size of the XV30f isn't a deal breaker that would be my first choice for you. You would be in the 118-124dB range from 15-30hz. And from 35hz and up...just a violent amount of impact capabilities. So the dual XS30s would give you all the output you will need at your -5 listening level. But for uncompressed listening at *00* (and with the bass 3dB hot)...dual XV30fs are the better choice. Each 8060 tower measured 103.6 averaged from 20-31hz per CEA-2010. The new XV30f is around 121.75 for the same test. 18dB. Assuming your towers "sum" for a 5dB gain down low....that is 13dB. Another way of looking at that is it would take about ten 8060 towers to match the dual XV30f system. If you do decide to upgrade, you will realize very audible benefits in the overall system performance.. Tom V. Power Sound Audio


 Well that definitely puts it all into perspective for me. Thanks again Tom. So dual XV30f's huh? That would look awesome in my room no doubt! Wonder if I can convince the wife on that sell? I was leaning towards the XS30's due to the size. However for the very small difference in price I would love to follow your recommendation with the XV30f's. Then again it's another small difference in price to just run a single Triax at the preorder price. How would a single Triax fair vs dual XV30f's? Just curious as the footprint of the Triax may be a bit more pleasing at that point for my wife than the dual xv30f's. The good thing about dual xv30f's though is buy one very soon and then add the other later on down the road.


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## Tom V.

Mike0206 said:


> Well that definitely puts it all into perspective for me. Thanks again Tom. So dual XV30f's huh? That would look awesome in my room no doubt! Wonder if I can convince the wife on that sell? I was leaning towards the XS30's due to the size. However for the very small difference in price I would love to follow your recommendation with the XV30f's. Then again it's another small difference in price to just run a single Triax at the preorder price. How would a single Triax fair vs dual XV30f's? Just curious as the footprint of the Triax may be a bit more pleasing at that point for my wife than the dual xv30f's. The good thing about dual xv30f's though is buy one very soon and then add the other later on down the road.



Hi Mike,

Well, you always have to balance aesthetics and outright performance.

At -5dB on your receiver I don't think you would notice much/any difference between dual XS30s and dual XV30f systems. But at *00* on the receiver, with source material that contained a tremendous amount of bass in the 15-35hz range...the dual XV30f subs will give you a little more output/tactile sensation. 

Dual XV30f compared to single Triax.

1)The Triax will extend a little deeper. I'd say 12-14hz versus 15-17hz for the XV30f subs. 

2) In the deep bass...15-35hz....they will have similar output capabilities. In the mid and upper bass the Triax will have a very slight edge...maybe 1.5dB. But both systems would be so powerful here I don't think an extra dB or so would be audible at most/all listening levels. 


So, overall....very similar performance between these two options. If you decide to try dual XV30f be sure to email me before ordering as we might be able to stretch a little extra discount. With regards to the Triax, once we have all the pre-orders fulfilled a price increase is expected. I'd say 7-10 days max for that. Just a heads-up.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Mike0206

Yup was expecting that price increase to come up soon. Thanks for all the info Tom I really do appreciate it. Now it's just a little convincing of the wife to see which way I can go and how soon!


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## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> ....With regards to the Triax, once we have all the pre-orders fulfilled a price increase is expected. I'd say 7-10 days max for that. Just a heads-up.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Can we take this as an official Triax update?


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## Tom V.

Saturn94 said:


> Can we take this as an official Triax update?


 All the steel is being machine today. Driver assembly should begin tomorrow. Assembly --->glue drying--->QC--->box/palletize. Another 48 hours or so. After that, its just the time between Vegas and Ohio..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> All the steel is being machine today. Driver assembly should begin tomorrow. Assembly --->glue drying--->QC--->box/palletize. Another 48 hours or so. After that, its just the time between Vegas and Ohio..
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


utstanding:


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## theJman

Tom V. said:


> All the steel is being machine today. Driver assembly should begin tomorrow. Assembly --->glue drying--->QC--->box/palletize. Another 48 hours or so. After that, its just the time between Vegas and Ohio..


So I guess my review unit will be arriving shortly then? Just sayin... :neener:


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## raynist

Can't wait for the Triax's!

There are so many movies that have come out that I am holding off on watching until I get them (Iron Man 3, World War Z, Star Trek).


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## Mike0206

Looks like once the Triax's ship there will be lots of xs30's for b stock on the trade in program. Not sure how many people here on this site are doing that but it seems that a lot of people on other sites are gonna trade up and turn in their xs15's, xv15's, xv30's and xs30's. Is the xv30 going to still be made? It seems like it's always listed as sold out. Did the XV30f take its place permanently?


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## jbrown15

Mike0206 said:


> Looks like once the Triax's ship there will be lots of xs30's for b stock on the trade in program. Not sure how many people here on this site are doing that but it seems that a lot of people on other sites are gonna trade up and turn in their xs15's, xv15's, xv30's and xs30's. Is the xv30 going to still be made? It seems like it's always listed as sold out. Did the XV30f take its place permanently?


Honestly I think if guys were going to trade in there other PSA subs on the Triax it would have already happened. The pre-order pricing on the Triax is about to end within the next week or so and once it has I have a feeling a Triax will cost around $3400 with the soon to be coming price increase because of having to switch driver manufactures for the sub.

So I think if potential Triax owners were going to trade in there current PSA subs they would have already done so.


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## Mike0206

jbrown15 said:


> Honestly I think if guys were going to trade in there other PSA subs on the Triax it would have already happened. The pre-order pricing on the Triax is about to end within the next week or so and once it has I have a feeling a Triax will cost around $3400 with the soon to be coming price increase because of having to switch driver manufactures for the sub. So I think if potential Triax owners were going to trade in there current PSA subs they would have already done so.


 But wouldn't they ship them out once they have confirmation that the Triax's will ship? They wouldn't require people to ship them their current subs in advance and have no sub for 3 months due to the driver delays on the Triax would they? I'm not talking about people just ordering subs now I'm talking about people who have had their preorders in for months. It would make sense that once confirmation of Triax's are going to ship or are ready to ship, then PSA would have all those doing the trade up program ship them their subs and once received PSA would immediately ship out the Triax.


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## jbrown15

Mike0206 said:


> But wouldn't they ship them out once they have confirmation that the Triax's will ship? They wouldn't require people to ship them their current subs in advance and have no sub for 3 months due to the driver delays on the Triax would they? I'm not talking about people just ordering subs now I'm talking about people who have had their preorders in for months. It would make sense that once confirmation of Triax's are going to ship or are ready to ship, then PSA would have all those doing the trade up program ship them their subs and once received PSA would immediately ship out the Triax.


You're absolutely right, I totally forgot that customers haven't returned the PSA subs that they already have back to Tom. I still torn by the fact that I'm not one of them returning my PSA subs for a pair of Triax's :hissyfit:


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## Mike0206

Your running dual xs30's so your good! Lol! I wish I had one xs30 let alone two?!


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## Crazykat

jbrown15 said:


> You're absolutely right, I totally forgot that customers haven't returned the PSA subs that they already have back to Tom. I still torn by the fact that I'm not one of them returning my PSA subs for a pair of Triax's :hissyfit:


You still Have time to get the pre-order pricing. 
But I know you bought the three JTR Noesis 228HT's and a Sherbourn PA 7-350 amp this year so you may be Like Me.... my Wallet is holding me back. :spend:


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## jbrown15

I might actually end up getting a JTR Orbit Shifter ULF eventually, and I'll try to use my two XS30's in a near field placement in between my two rows of seats.


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## Crazykat

jbrown15 said:


> I might actually end up getting a JTR Orbit Shifter ULF eventually, and I'll try to use my two XS30's in a near field placement in between my two rows of seats.


I know very little about the JTR line being that I'm only interested in the the now vintage Mirage line and PSA subs (Like your XS30'S),  but WOW :rubeyes: is that Orbit Shifter dimensions 45″x 22.5″x 32″ (HxWxD)  It's a Monster.


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## ALMFamily

Crazykat said:


> I know very little about the JTR line being that I'm only interested in the the now vintage Mirage line and PSA subs (Like your XS30'S),  but WOW :rubeyes: is that Orbit Shifter dimensions 45″x 22.5″x 32″ (HxWxD)  It's a Monster.


It is - and, if memory serves, I heard one gtg had two of them running and ended up cracking the grout in his kitchen floor when they cranked them up later in the day... :gulp:


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## jbrown15

Yes the OS is a heavy hitter and basically the size of a fridge, which ok with because it would be hidden behind a false wall/AT screen setup.


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## Crazykat

jbrown15 said:


> Yes the OS is a heavy hitter and basically the size of a fridge, which ok with because it would be hidden behind a false wall/AT screen setup.


If you get one of those JB, be careful not to hurt your House.


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