# Seeking advice if my Living room is good for hifi listening



## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

Hi Bryan,

Good day and it is really nice to have found this forum. This is my first thread in Home Audio Acoustic and I hope you could give me some advice.

I use my SMALL living room as my hifi "studio" and you can see the general layout of my room in the sketch. I have read your No-Nos but unfortunately I cannot avoid them.

I came to know REW recently and managed to generate some plots of my room for the purpose of finding out if I can improve my listening environment. I am using an omni condenser mic. model EM-1 of Yoga made without calibration data provided. The data sheet only mentioned the frequency response is from 20Hz to 16KHz.

In the freq. response curves I have generated the blue line is for the left speaker, the green line is for the right speaker while the yellow is for both speakers. 

I don't know if I am correct or not. Someone said the early reflections should be reduced by 15-20dB within the first 20mS which in this case my room seems to meet the requirement as seen from the Impulse Diagram. As to the RT60, the ringing at low freq. seems to be too long. I am not sure about the frequency response, it looks as though the curve at 1/3 octave smoothing is not smooth enough. To me the waterfalls seem to be acceptable.

Your expert advice and comment for improvement of my listening environment are highly appreciated.

As English is not my mother tongue, forgive me for the English.

Best Regards
Willy


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## bearberry (Apr 7, 2010)

Willy,

Your English is fine!

Some additional info would help.
1) What is your current speaker set-up (number, location, cross-over)?
2) Where do you have room for additional or different speakers?
3) Where can speakers absolutely not go?
4) What is the finish and structure of the walls, floor, and ceiling?

I'm not knowledgeable enough to interpret all the charts, but hopefully others who can will add their views. My only intitial suggestion is that it looks like additional bass sources might be helpful.

bearberry


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

You room is fine for hifi listening the human brain is amazingly adaptive. No room is perfect.


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## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

bearberry said:


> Willy,
> 
> Your English is fine!
> 
> ...




Thanks Bearberry.

1) I listen to stereo hifi system and therefore I have only 2 speakers (Monitor Audio RX1 driven by NAD C355BEE using OPPO BDP-83 as player);
2) Not applicable as I got only 2 speakers;
3) The speakers are now located in the wall cabinet unit and due to the room layout I don't think I will make any relocation (please refer to my room sketch); and
4) Floors are fully carpeted. All walls and ceilings are hard bricks as I am living in an apartment. 

Hope the above additional information are useful.

Best Regards
Willy


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## koyaan (Mar 2, 2010)

I'd say your room is fine and your equipment suits it nicely. I've seen far worse multi-purpose areas that provided a lot of enjoyment. 
I don't know how much tweaking you've done with speaker placement, but you might try to grt them a bit further from the wall and see how that sounds.


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## bearberry (Apr 7, 2010)

Willy,

I should have asked one more thing - are you happy with the sound you are getting now, and if not, what about it bothers you? If you're happy, don't worry about the room!

bearberry


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

The RT 60 is too long in the bass, but that's not a very audible issue. Not ideal, but shouldn't be a big problem. The wildly varying FR below 200Hz will be audible. This indicates bass absorption would help the room as would more careful speaker/sub placemen t. Otherwise I like your decay and would deem it ideal. The rising FR may not be an issue either D/t not having a calibrated mic. That response may be your mic.

Dan


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## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

Bearberry, as Isiberian said in his previous reply to me "...... the human brain is amazingly adaptive. No room is perfect" which I totally agreed with him. I am sure my ear will eventually get used to the sound quality in my living room and will eventually found nothing wrong with it. Replying to your question, so far I am reasonably happy with my listening environment. Having said that, though I trust my ears I also think scientific analysis is more accurate and objective. I hope REW can shed me some light so that I can make certain enhancement according to scientific analysis rather than relying on my own ears.

For Dan, thanks for your advice. I also noticed that RT60 at low frequencies was a bit long. I think I need to do something on the right hand side speaker according to the plots. I will try to place some more absorbers at different locations and see if this can help reducing the RT60 to some extent.

Can someone advice me on the Impulse Response on early reflections of my room? Are they acceptable?

Thanks to all for your advices. 
Willy


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## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

koyaan said:


> I'd say your room is fine and your equipment suits it nicely. I've seen far worse multi-purposr areas that provided a lot of enjoyment.
> I dont know how much tweaking you've done with speaker placement, but you might try to grt them a bit further from the wall and see how that sounds.


Hi Koyaan,

Thanks for the reply. As I said before the two speakers are placed in the wall cabinet and I have already shifted them near to the cabinet edge and moved them out from the wall as far as I could. As you can also see from my floor plan sketch I have used two triangular bass traps (3ft x1ftx1ft) together with an acoustic tile of 3ftx3ft to avoid bass reflections behind the speakers. The result seems to be acceptable to my ears. At this moment I can't move the speakers any further away but I can do a bit of tow in for fine adjustment.

What I plan to do is to place some more acoustic tiles behind the wall at my listening position to get rid of reflections as far as possible.

Best Regards
Willy


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

I don't know that a person can ever get that initial reflection gap reduced in level, increased in time as high as audibly best in a real living room. A soft fluffy blanket gapped over the TV may help when not watching it. Really though, your measurements don't look bad provided the HF rise is d/t a mic issue. If it does actually sound bright, just turn your treble knob to taste and I think your good. If you do get that bass smoother, you'll probably need some diffusion to bring treble reverberation back to good. I'd bet a pair of subs would be nice as well unless the bass is more extended than graphed--I assume it is.

Dan


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## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

DanTheMan said:


> I don't know that a person can ever get that initial reflection gap reduced in level, increased in time as high as audibly best in a real living room. A soft fluffy blanket gapped over the TV may help when not watching it. Really though, your measurements don't look bad provided the HF rise is d/t a mic issue. If it does actually sound bright, just turn your treble knob to taste and I think your good. If you do get that bass smoother, you'll probably need some diffusion to bring treble reverberation back to good. I'd bet a pair of subs would be nice as well unless the bass is more extended than graphed--I assume it is.
> 
> Dan


Hi Dan,

My ears do not find the music sounds bright and I believe most probably the sloping up of the FR curve at high freq. is D/t the mic. itself.

Since my last post I ordered a few more acoustic tiles from e-Bay and placed them at the back of my listening position. The FR has some improvement and I have generated a few curves here for your comment and advice. RT60 has been reduced and the low frequency looks better than before. I will put up some absorbers in the ceiling just above my listening position and see if further improvement can be obtained, especially on the 52Hz resonance.

Best Regards
Willy


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Is the mic position similar to the blue line before? Even there you got some improvement.

52 Hz will require a TON of absorption. I'm not convinced it's worth it d/t hearing sensitivity there. I guess if your like me, it's all important.

Looking good. Keep up the good work,

Dan


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## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

DanTheMan said:


> Is the mic position similar to the blue line before? Even there you got some improvement.
> 
> 52 Hz will require a TON of absorption. I'm not convinced it's worth it d/t hearing sensitivity there. I guess if your like me, it's all important.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Yes, the mic. position was the same when I took all the recordings including the curves attached to this post.

I have put up a 3ft X 2ft x 3" thick acoustic tile on the ceiling mid way between my listening position and the speakers. To my ear the sound seems to be much clear and transparent. I took some REW readings and you may wish to comment if it is better than before.

I have ordered some more acoustic tiles from e-Bay and what I will do is to double the thickness of the acoustic tiles at the back of my listening position from 45mm to 90mm. I hope it will have some improvement to the low frequency FR. 

Best Regards
Willy


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

That does look much improved! That 2-300Hz dip is probably an SBIR thing I'd Guess.

Dan


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## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

DanTheMan said:


> That does look much improved! That 2-300Hz dip is probably an SBIR thing I'd Guess.
> 
> Dan


Hi Dan,

My acoustic foam arrived a few days ago and I have doubled my original absorber thickness from 25mm to 50mm and from 40mm to 80mm. I have generated a number of REW plots for your reference.

The FR has small improvement but the various dips at low frequencies are still there. Most probably they are caused by SBIR as you mentioned to me before. The ETC shows that I have get rid of some of the early reflections and the waterfall looks acceptable to me. RT60 at high freq. has reduced due to more absorbers are used but I think they are still within reasonable limits.

Overall the sound quality and music is ear friendly to me and I believe this is the most I can do at this moment due to constraints as a result of system placement and the size of my room. I agree with you that I need TONs of absorbers and diffusers to smooth out the low frequency response which may not be cost effective due to sensitivity of human ears. I will leave this dips as they are as I don't think I can hear any big differences even if I smooth them out.

From now on I will sit back and enjoy my music whenever I have the time. Lastly thanks to all who have offered their valuable advices to me.

Best wishes to all.
Willy


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Measurements look pretty good to me!

Dan


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## fractile (Mar 15, 2009)

Yeah, the brick walls look pretty good (balanced) with higher frequencies. Raising and lowering the room modes and lulls: priceless


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## inter_voice (Oct 18, 2010)

fractile said:


> Yeah, the brick walls look pretty good (balanced) with higher frequencies. Raising and lowering the room modes and lulls: priceless


Hi,

To further improve my listening environment I have put up two 4" foam absorbers in the ceiling, one in the reflection point while the other right on top of my listening position. A 1'X1' triangular corner bass trap is placed at one of the the front wall corners. I have uploaded a few photos here for your reference. You can also see in the wall unit I have put inside it 2 bass traps and filled the back space with acoustic tiles behind the LCD TV to avoid heavy bass and reflections. I try to make the front wall dead. The two speakers are sit on a thick foam absorbers to damp out vibrations to the wall unit as my CD player is placed in the shelf underneath. You can also see the back wall are filled with various shapes of acoustic tiles as wall decorations.

I took some REW readings afterwards and you can see there are certain improvements in the FR. The fluctuations at LF is very likely due to room mode which will be quite difficult to eliminate due to my room size. 

The sloping up of the FR at HF is most probably due to the microphone characteristics as the music is not bright at all. I don't have calibration cure for the omni mic. as it is a cheap one.

Best Regards
Willy


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## Theresa (Aug 23, 2010)

I use ATS Acoustics panels. They are relatively inexpensive. They certainly tamed my room with just 3 2'x4' panels. Two are 4" thick of which one is open backed for better bass performance. One is 2" thick and behind my tv. Its like having entirely different speakers.


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