# Pics



## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

PFFF after hours and hours off reading and trying to understand, here is mine fist pic i used a laptop and contect a Creative Extigy, used line in and headphones for out both on the front tried front speakers but then i could not calibrate well.









View attachment marco sub 1.mdat


Prob did all kind off things wrong but i hope you can help me this was the reading of the sub. Next question i have if you meassure the sub you connect only the sub or all the other speakers too??

Just allready thnx for looking, and helping


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Next question i have if you meassure the sub you connect only the sub or all the other speakers too??


Just disconnect the speakers and do the sub only when setting up the BFD. Once the sub is equalized, then add the mains to check the interaction around the crossover area. Tweak to fix this if there's a problem. Always have the receiver in stereo mode with crossovers enabled.



> Prob did all kind off things wrong


Please post your graphs for the sub with a horizontal axis of 15Hz to 200Hz. Your vertical axis is correct.

See how your response is basically a mirror image of the microphone calibration file? You have a soundcard internal loopback monitor enabled. Turn it off.

brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Internal Loopback of the soundcard how do i turn this off?:R


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Somewhere in the Creative Audio Mixer application will be an enable monitor or "what you see is what you get" selection..

brucek


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi Marco,

The problem is you have selected "What U Hear" as the input, this is just an internal soundcard loopback used for monitoring the output. You need to select the Line in, also make sure CMSS and any other effects are turned off.


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Hi Both,

Thnx for the help:jiggy: , tommorow i will check it and try again. And post some new pics. I put it on what you hear because with line in there was no reaction, but i forgot to put off cmss, i hope that was the prob.

Regards,
Marco


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

CMSS will not have been the reason for no signal from Line In, would more likely be something wrongly set in the Creative Mixer or with the external connections. Best post a screenshot of the Creative Mixer after REW has started up so we can see whether it looks right.


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Hi tried to get going on with line in, but i didn't get that working:daydream: ,

View attachment instellingen 2.pdf



















So i tried again with callibrating twice. 


But still no good,:hissyfit: all ready thnx for helping.


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## Chrisbee (Apr 20, 2006)

You have the same mirror curves as I did until brucek put me right.

You must use *Line In* and try to set your soundcard to the illustrations in the help files. 

The help files are above the BFD-REW forum threads. 

Click on the Creative volume/mixer symbol on the bottom of your screen. 

Select mixer then check that you have *Line in* set and not *What you hear*. 

In my Creative mixer pop-up screen the *Line in* setting is on the *right*. 

*What you hear* is printed on its side and difficult to spot unless you know what you are looking for.


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

The Creative Mixer shot in the pdf looks like it only has the replay sources, there should be a similar panel for the input sources? Another possibility is that on some creative mixers you have to unmute line in on the replay panel, so both wave and line in are not muted, worth trying that. Also worth using the option in the REW Soundcard menu to generate a debug file and attach that.


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Final question for tonight, what kind of cable are you using to connect the line in to the front out?


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Thnx for the advice, i'm gonna check this afternoon if there is a mute button somewere. I'm using a speaker cable what i used for the sub. With red / wite.


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## blekenbleu (Jan 4, 2007)

Gizmo said:


> Hi tried to get going on with line in, but i didn't get that working:daydream: ,
> 
> View attachment 1651
> 
> ...


My German is no good, but I think
instellingen2.pdf shows Line-In muted..


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Hi all and thnx for so far,

I found the problem:jump: , and that was that i let the record button at left channel but i needed put it at right channel.
So finaly, it worked here is the picture.

It look like the sub is drunk:meal: . 









So now i should messure every speaker alone or all together?

I did the automatic measurement.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I'm using a speaker cable what i used for the sub. With red / wite.


Can you explain this further. I don't really understand. Let me post a few picture to see if we're on the same page.

The line-in and line out of the soundcard are stereo, and as such require a stereo connector to work properly. You will only be using one channel of the stereo connector, but it still must be a stereo adapter.

I presume you are using the line-in and line-out ports I show in the picture below with red arrows.

Below that is a picture showing the correct use of a stereo adapter to connect the line-in and line-out of the soundcard.

Is this the situation you are using (or similar)?

LINE-IN








LINE-OUT








CONNECTIONS








brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Hi Bruce,

Thnx for reply we were probely typing at the same time. But the setup was oke only i had the wrong record button in the program. The button next to DB SPL was set on the left channel but had to be the Right one. 

What do you think of the sub its a sub from kef 2001 series


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

When testing the response of a subwoofer you want to disconnect all other speakers and test the sub by itself with the receivers crossover set to the frequency you normally use (i.e. 80Hz).

I don't see any 2001 series subwoofers on KEF's rather horrible site, but I do see that they have a 2005.2 series with a frequency bottom of 30Hz. I am assuming your sub is in this range?

Either way, it isn't extending very low and I guess you're not getting much low bass in the sound. You're really listening to what's called one-note bass that is around 65Hz. Not too good.

You need to test the sub alone and try and place it in a corner of the room that produces the best low end extension. REW makes the testing fairly easy. You can move the sub around or alternately place the sub in your listening position and move the microphone around to the corners to find the best spot.










brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

It's the same set of Keff 2005.2. Oke i'm gonna move the bub around. I really like the program only i'm just looking around the corner concernig music and sound. So far thnx allready :T


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

I've moved the sub to the corner see picture









and here is a screen pic,

View attachment sub verplaatst.pdf


Mine setup is as folowed,

got a receiver from Sony strd 940, and the KEF 2005,2 (2001) speakers.

A one base sub means its not the best around the block??

Next week i recieve the usb with midi cables so i can adjust the settings of the bfd, any tips for so far??


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

I don't really understand why your response is dropping off so quickly at 60Hz. It should extend much lower.

Is this a response of the sub only that you've posted?

How large is your room.

brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

the room aint that big i think about 5 by 6/7, humm i changed in the settings the hz from 200 hz to 90hz for the speakers, tommorow i will look if this looks better.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Next week i recieve the usb with midi cables so i can adjust the settings of the bfd


Note that this feature does not work in the BFD...

See here

brucek


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## blekenbleu (Jan 4, 2007)

brucek said:


> Note that this feature does not work in the BFD...
> 
> See here
> 
> brucek



Actually, I've read that it works on BFDs older than 2006 (prior to version 1.3)
and Behringer has offered beta 1.4 EPROM fix.
( Sorry, I'm net yet allowed to post URLs )

Meanwhile, I thought that the Extigy has built-in MIDI?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Actually, I've read that it works on BFDs older than 2006 (prior to version 1.3)


Yep..



> Sorry, I'm net yet allowed to post URLs


Now you can. 



> Meanwhile, I thought that the Extigy has built-in MIDI?


The problem is with the BFD, not REW.....


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Oh oke, how can i see that the midi works or not??


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## blekenbleu (Jan 4, 2007)

Gizmo said:


> Oh oke, how can i see that the midi works or not??


A colleague loaned me an M-Audio UNO,
and I will test whether it talks to my Creative Extigy.
By the way, so far as I know, you are the first to report
REW working with a Creative Extigy, so congratulations for that..


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## blekenbleu (Jan 4, 2007)

brucek said:


> Yep..
> 
> 
> Now you can.
> ...


Here is the link for EPROMs to fix 1.3 BFDs:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...vised-firmware-v1-4-dsp1124p-2.html#post20648


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Oh oke, how can i see that the midi works or not??


Hook up the usb to midi cable and download some filters as per the HELP files.

brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

The USB cabel i probely receive thursday, but i made two new measurements.

The first i put everything on 90HZ, is this adjustment worse or better then one of the firts measurements:help: 









and the second one i've set the the target level and was 70,3.









Any thoughts about it??


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Any thoughts about it??


Usually you would like to set your REW target to 75dB.

Also set your REW crossover cutoff to 90Hz, if that is what you have your crossover in your receiver set to. 

Hopefully you have the low pass crossover on your subwoofer set to bypass or fully clockwise, so as to remove it from the mix.

Here's what a 90Hz target looks like. It's also what the response of your sub would look like in a perfect world. You can see that you're quite a ways away from this ideal.....









brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

So finaly after a lot of reading and disapointed about the power of the sub from KEF, I figured i needed a better sub. First thought about a new small one like the SVS 12 NSD to please the misses, but got a link here from the AVS forum and readed graigs sub shoutout. And figured it out that maybe a HSU was better. There a lott of people in favor of SVS and a lot off HSU. I read all the post on that toppic and thought i should get a HSU VTF 3.3. After contacting HSU in the states about shipping to holland, here nobody sell those subs. I bought one. Allen who was the contact made a calculation incl. tax and shipping i still was cheaper out then buying a SVS here in Holland and with this in mind that the test results were better and that the SVS more expensive it was the best deal i hoped.

Friday i got the sub WOW this is huge:wits-end: , and how im gonna explain to the misses that this was one off the smallest subs ahum:whew: . When she got home and saw the box the first reaction was send it back this is to big and were must i stand. So to get her pleased i had to put in the corner behind the seats and next to the closset out of sight. She finnaly agreed, lucky me:bigsmile: . And after installing i was hoping that what i had been reading was through, so i got the dvd U571 and put it in the dvd player. The house was shaking and it sounds so good. I dont know how it compairs to other subs but it beated the kef in every way:T . Even playing music the sound is excelent. After using REW i saved some calcutlations and show them to you. Maybe some people have comments or tips allready thnx for the help.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Best to post your graphs with a vertical scale of 45dB to 105dB and a horizontal scale from 15Hz to 200Hz. This allows eveyone to compare the same graphs.......

brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

oeps, here are the pics again.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Great. 

I have to say that you really, really need to smooth out that response. You might try moving the sub around if possible to smooth the peaks (but sounds like you have it hidden, so maybe that's not an option for you).

You are getting good extension right down to 15Hz. Those peaks at ~30Hz and ~55Hz are quite bad.

The next option would be to get a BFD and equalize the peaks.

brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

Hey Brucek, this is how looks like when its corrected with the BFD.


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## blazerman (Jan 23, 2007)

brucek said:


> I don't really understand why your response is dropping off so quickly at 60Hz. It should extend much lower.
> 
> Is this a response of the sub only that you've posted?
> 
> brucek


Regarding your previous graphs, I agree. Even the most low budget subs I've heard and owned will at least reach 35-30Hz. What were your LFE crossover values set at???. Otherwise...those graphs look more like main speakers rather than sub plots. 

The new plots for the new sub look very good. Congrats!!!


Blazerman

Hearing is Believing :yes:


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> this is how looks like when its corrected with the BFD


As blazerman says, the _after BFD_ plot looks good. It's too bad you couldn't move it around a little to try and correct the dip at 25Hz. Is the dip present for all seating positions? Sometimes you can alter seating arrangements to get a better response.

brucek


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

The dipp is the same when i started, i had the sub next to the tv between 2 the two main spaekers infront of the seats, and now it's behind the the seats. Maybe at an other sitting position its better. The LFE is set at 90 because the sony receiver (strdb 940) does 60 and jumps to 90, 120 150.

thnx so far for the experience look at the graph.


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## Gizmo (Dec 29, 2006)

When i was reading youre post i figured that i could change the filters manuel. So i did and gained at the 25 hz, 16 steps. and this is the result. It looks good i hope??


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Applying a large, narrow peak to try and correct a dip is a bad idea, and will not have the desired effect. If boost is to be applied it should be small and use broad filters (large bandwidths).


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