# Onkyo 818 w/XT32 subs never sound right!?!?



## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

I have been struggling trying to get what I feel is the proper sound from my equipment. I'm definitely a bass head so to speak, but I always have been in search of clean and clear powerful sound. The Onkyo txnr 818 uses xt32 which is supposed to be all that and then some. For me, it's been a headache that I wish I never started. I have a pair of psa xv15's. These are supposed to be some pretty nice subs. Yet, with this Onkyo I'm just not hearing what everyone is talking about. The receiver asks for me to calibrate the sub to 75db prior to running audessey. This means 70db each... Which results in very weak bass. It also sets all my speakers to high negative numbers--9.5 fronts, -12.5 center, -10.5 rears... Sub 0. If I raise these numbers the sound improves but the reference volume of zero decreases by the same number. The subs can play much much harder than audessey is allowing them to... For example if I turn off my emotiva xpa-5 amp so I can hear the subs only... I can play bass heavy music with dynamic eq on and turn the subs gain to 2:30 and have extremely powerful clean stress free bass... Exactly what I want. But as soon as I get to a bass heavy scene in the movie I get a rolling off kind of sound at that same number of dbs below reference volume. Basically what I mean is I can run the subs as hot as I feel like with music to full reference.... Yet for a movie... If I try 1db more than what audessey sets the system at-- the subs refuse it-- speakers are all fine... What am I doing wrong?!?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I have the 818 also, but am using the onboard amp for my mains. I also have 2 subs. I used the setup as you have with xt32, but my settings are much closer to zero, or within negative gain of only a few db with some of the surrounds. My first thought is that your gain is set too high on the XPA-5, making the mains more dominant than the subs. My subs are also more dominant with music with the 818 - I prefer the Studio Mix setting for music. As far as the subs being quiter: many state that they feel that Audessey is 3-4db light on the subs. I find this true to a point, but more like 6db light for my taste for movies, 3db light for music. Us bassheads expect bass right up front and plenty of it, but it seems like properly edited movies use it when needed, so it seems like it is not nearly enough bass. So I guess my point is that it is almost setup like it should be as XT32 thinks it should be, so tweak it to how you like to hear it from there.

Oh, welcome to Home Theater Shack!


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

Curious as to why you have the pair of subs set at 70 instead of 75 db on the Audyssey mic when doing the calibration. I have basically the same receiver, the tx-nr929, same XT32 calibration, and dual 10" RSL subs in a 9.2 setup. 

I set the subs to the same crossover point and same gain level on each of the sub's control panels and then adjusted them simultaneously with the subs' remote control until combined they read out 75 on Audyssey's setup calibration. 

Everything seems fine on my setup. (also am using the Onkyo's on-board amp in the receiver, not a separate.). Lots and lots of bass, no localization, everything is how I had hoped. 

Just hadn't heard of any manual adjustment for dual subs when running Audyssey.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

Out of troubleshooting what happens if you just calibrate for the 1 sub and not both? 

I'm wondering if maybe your getting bass canceling.

Also what happens if you shut Audessey off with both subs on


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I would also double check your sub placement. How did you figure out where to place them? Check out this video for sub placement.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...04HoDw&usg=AFQjCNHfieeBa-u97kB95SqvmIFKoaVPpg


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

OP:

Do you have large, floor-standing mains? If so, try overriding Audyssey and enter these trim levels and crossovers in your Onkyo:

*Front L&R Crossover: 60Hz
Center: 80Hz
Surrounds: 80Hz
LPF of LFE: 120Hz

Left Front Calibration: +6dB
Center Calibration: +8dB
Right Front Calibration: +6dB
Left Surround Calibration: +6dB (if both surrounds are EQUIDISTANT from the sweet spot)
Right Surround Calibration: +6dB (see note above)
Subwoofer Calibration: +2dB*


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

How good is this onkyo amp?


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

kingnoob said:


> How good is this onkyo amp?


Compared to what? 

If you can still find an 818 available, they're a great deal. The new-model closest equivalent would be the 929 which I have and am completely satisfied with. Love it. Running a 9.2 rig in a 2900+ cubic foot home theater with RSL Speakers. (www.rslspeakers.com)

Don't think I could be happier.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

gregsdouglas said:


> Compared to what?
> 
> If you can still find an 818 available, they're a great deal. The new-model closest equivalent would be the 929 which I have and am completely satisfied with. Love it. Running a 9.2 rig in a 2900+ cubic foot home theater with RSL Speakers. (www.rslspeakers.com)
> 
> ...


onkyo 616(399) vs 717(499) vs 818($699)??'
The 929 is like $1300 way out of my budget


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

That's what makes the 818 such a HUGE steal.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree, the mic placement is crucial and make sure you do as many readings as possible even if it mean moving the mic a couple feet forward in front of the listening position. 
I also agree that running audyssey with only one sub first and then adding the second one after and tweaking the settings on that sub using it's own adjustment will yield much better results.


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> I agree, the mic placement is crucial and make sure you do as many readings as possible even if it mean moving the mic a couple feet forward in front of the listening position.
> I also agree that running audyssey with only one sub first and then adding the second one after and tweaking the settings on that sub using it's own adjustment will yield much better results.


Agreed, also, maybe the OP should try to gain match with a SPL meter first instead of with Audyssey. That's what I did instead of relying on ARC. Before gain matching with an SPL, (measuring just with the correction software ), for some reason, I could clearly localize the LFE on my right side. I ended up with the gain for the left side a couple of notches higher for some reason.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Looks like Mechsmoto was a one-poster... came and went. :huh:

I bet he had a large peak in his response. He level matched at the highest SPL of that peak. All other frequencies were significantly below that peak. Audyssey sets levels first, then equalizes, so it took out the peak and his levels are now overall really low. 

He really needs to measure his room response and see what's going on without Audyssey.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> Looks like Mechsmoto was a one-poster... came and went. :huh:


This tends to happen a lot in the online forum community...:rolleyesno:


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

does this mean that you need a second mic even with xt32?? does that mean xt32 dosnt eq subs or what?


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

kingnoob said:


> does this mean that you need a second mic even with xt32?? does that mean xt32 dosnt eq subs or what?


No. Only 1 mic. Needed 

Yes. it eq subs.....but..... 

Audyssey Sub EQ HT can EQ dual subs separately.
However saying this the 818 model doesn't have this feature. Now you might say why buy it....

This is not a problem if you have 1 sub like most people do. That is why it is so popular. 

My opinion-If you have 2 subs I would want to make sure I had sub eq ht so I can have the subs independently eq'd.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Actually Sub HT EQ does not independently EQ two subs. It sets the distance and level of each sub and then EQ's them as one. If you have two subs and they are equidistant from the primary listening position, then you do not have to have Sub HT EQ, as you can simply feed the sub out to both subs, or your sub amp.

My previous comment has to do with Audyssey NOT being able to deal with really large peaks and it causing your sub level to be too low. If you want to see what your room response is prior to Audyssey, then yes, you will need a separate mic and Room EQ Wizard. I recommend it for everyone, not only to see what your room response is prior to Audyssey, but also to see what Audyssey does to your response, particularly sub response.

You can look at the section in my 4520 review (link in sig) that is titled: Is Audyssey all you need in your system for equalization?

If you have subsequent questions about this, please ask in the 4520 review discussion thread. If you have questions about REW or microphones, etc, please ask those in the appropriate forum.


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## KelvinS1965 (Feb 6, 2011)

I only realised about how SubHT works recently and the only thing I felt I was losing out on was the independent delays (since setting/balancing levels can be done using the sub's gain anyway), so I grabbed an 818 as an end of line deal. Despite coming from a pretty high end (but old) Arcam processor I'm really happy with the 818, though running two subs has it's issues with the 818 I've ended up with a decent result. 

Of course the 818 sub delay setting is a compromise since it's measuring two subs together, but soon I plan to build my own pair of matching 15" subs instead of the mismatched pair I'm currently running (10" sealed and 12" ported).

My plan is to use the DSP function in the sub amp I'll be using (Beringer NU6000DSP) to sort delays out as one sub is half the distance from the MPL compared to the 'main' one. This is a delibrate move based on REW room sim calculations which means that the second sub will fill a null I otherwise would have with a single sub. I'm also planning on using the DSP and REW to smooth the pre Audyssey response as much as I can to help avoid issues that the OP may have been suffering with a big peak(s) causing misreading. Hopefully this should result in Audyssey being able to do it's best for me.

FWIW when I first set up my 818 I'd inadvertently set my second sub phase to 180 degrees. Some measurements I made highlighted this mistake and putting the second sub back to 0 degrees and re running Audyssey really improved the bass (along with 2-3dB increase). So IMHO it may be well worth trying out phase settings on the second sub if using an 818 or other amp that doesn't have SubHT and measuring first too.

Considering my 818 replaced a processor with a retail price 3 x higher I think it's doing a great job (it was only meant to be a 'stopgap' while I search for a deal on a newer processor). I'm using a separate power amp to run my M&K 150 series speakers, but the 818 powers the surrounds. I'm also enjoying having front height speakers too (no room for front wides, but I already had surround backs, so now a 9.2 setup :T).


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I was going to suggest getting a DEQ2496 for dual subs and delay, PEQ, graphic EQ, Dynamic EQ and shelf filters... but if you have the Inuke with DSP, you should be fine.


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

Hi guys!!... 

Forgive me for starting a thread and then becoming "mia"!!! I have an update that is going to go in a few different directions so please just keep reading.

First off, the original setup was Onkyo 818, emotiva xpa5, Polk monitor 70, cs2, and tsi200 (rears) ran 5.1 through dual spa xv15's.

I'm in no way shape or form an expert in anything home theater. However, I've been a mechanic for 15 years... and a very very good one at that. Point being, I get paid to "trouble shoot"... I am relentlless. If there is a problem, I MUST know what it is... and how it can be fixed. 

I purchased the above components beginning if the year. I've had pretty much everything you can buy from the big box stores at one time or another.... and have finally been able to work myself into what I consider to be a fairly solid "midrange" kit. 

Right off the bat, the 818 never sounded right, nothing I could do would fix this... no changing of settings, running subs hot, sub crawl, a million different xt32 calibrations, I mean NOTHING would make the lack of mid bass, and deep bass, or distorted highs away. 

So I decided to add the xpa5 into the equation, hoping it would help with mid bass, and highs. As the monitor 70's have four 6.5" drivers in each tower, so mid bass shouldn't be a huge issue for them. However, even adding the xpa5 didn't really seem to help. Lots of harshness after raising the master volume above -10db... no midbass.... 

Ok ok, I thought.... maybe it was my dual psw 505's??? There were surely the weakest link. So I got the spa xv15's...2!!! Guess what?!?!? Stiiiiiiiillll sounded like !!!! I'm easily $reaching $4000 and nothing is helping...!!!!

Thank goodness I had contacted onkyo immediately, letting them know within 30 days... There was something NOT right with the reciever. Long story short - kind of... I had purchased it from NEW EGG killer deal $ last December. Unfortunately, I'd made the mistake of throwing away the box--- which gave NEW EGG an easy way to "fine print" me out of Wm swapping out the unit then. I decide to reach out to ONKYO... end up talking with Talla Garcia--- super sweet lady!!!--- don't get me wrong, this took months of emails back and forth... to finally get in touch with her, and convince her that the 818 was indeed defective. Once convinced, she kindly sent me a new box and packaging along with a prepaid label to return the unit. Result???? Faulty HDMI BOARD!!!!!!!! 

They wanted to repair the unit per terms warranty, again, thankfully I had contacted them prior to the unit being 30 days old notifying them if the issue. Many more emails, and another one to Jack Cooper and boy did ONKYO step up to the plate and back up their product!!!!! They sent me a brand new 929 as a replacement! !!!!!!! I'm sure this almost never happens.... but in this case.... they went above and beyond!!! I can't thank Talla Garcia, Jack Cooper and Onkyo enough for truly taking the steps necessary to take care of me as a customer.!!!

immediately upon receiving the new 929 and making the appropriate connections. .... WOOOOOW IS ALL I CAN SAY!!!! I've had it nearly a month and haven't even thought about running the pre outs to the xpa5. Clean clear power to full reference in my small- but heavily treated theater room. No harshness, deeeeeeeeeeeep bass, full mids...... everything I was searching for!!!! Woooo hooooooo!!!!!!


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

Great to hear! Actually a similar story to mine - faulty 818 (except I kept the box!) and Onkyo, after two attempts to repair at the local shop plus another crack at a repair at the Canadian national facility in Vancouver, and I also have a 929 now. That I love. Good on ya for being persistent. It seems to take some effort on a customer's part to accomplish, but in the end, Onkyo appears to take good care of their customers! Cheers, glad it worked out!

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Wow... two 818's got swapped out for two 929's... not bad at all. I am glad both of you got it figured out.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Great to hear that your system is now functioning as it should!



Sonnie said:


> Looks like Mechsmoto was a one-poster... came and went. :huh:
> 
> I bet he had a large peak in his response. He level matched at the highest SPL of that peak. All other frequencies were significantly below that peak. Audyssey sets levels first, then equalizes, so it took out the peak and his levels are now overall really low.
> 
> He really needs to measure his room response and see what's going on without Audyssey.


BTW, Audyssey level matches after it eq's, at least that's what it does on my Onkyo 809. I've confirmed with REW measurements. It cuts my 30Hz peak and then raises the overall level to compensate. Average level is same with and without Audyssey active. As a side effect, THD also increases :sneeky:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I know that Audyssey states it sends a signal to set levels, distances and crossover points, then sends another signal to set filters for each listening position you measure. It clearly did not compensate for cutting my large peak in my 4520. You can see the evidence in my review... I dedicated a section to it.

With Sub EQ HT and two subs, it asks you to level match the two subs before going any further, although you can ignore it if you want. It still sends a signal to each sub and sets the delay prior to sending another signal and setting the EQ filters.

What you may be seeing is Dynamic EQ kicking in if you are measuring at lower volumes. It turns on Dynamic EQ by default, which will bump up the low end at lower volumes. OR your peak may not be all that bad and it could just be equalizing it all like it should be. OR perhaps you are one of the lucky ones that for whatever reasons Audyssey did it right. I have seen it on numerous occasions NOT get it right.


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks guys for your kind words, and for all the suggestions at trying to help figure out what was wrong. Between the 818 issues I was having, hum from interaction between my system and the xpa5 (started a new thread about that one)... I was so deep into my trouble shooting efforts I completely forget I'd even started the thead!!!! I just HAD to figure it out. Didn't actually pinpoint the issue with the xpa-5/system interaction until after receiving the 929 and testing to see that the hum was indeed still there. This was two Onkyo mid range recievers, and a Sony (can't remember model) that all produced the same results. Thankfully after speaking to Chad at emotiva on several different ocassions... Chad calls me back for no reason one afternoon suggesting to check a few things with my multimeter!!!! Talk about AMAZING customer service!!! He was actually there thinking about me and my issue completely of his own accord--- searching through schematics--- just to try and help me figure it out. This ultimately led me to finally deciding to check rca (outer shield) to chassis ground on my it her components. Come to find out the tv, blue ray, receiver, direct tv box, all have rca's grounded to chasis. The emotiva xpa5 (gen1) however, does NOT have rca's grounded to chasis. This is completely normal and in no way a defect from my understanding and talks with Lonnie, hopefully someone who has more knowledge can do a better job of explaining this---??!!! But point is neither is at fault.. and function perfectly, yet.... The lack of the rca's being ground to the chassis in the xpa 5 (in this particular setup) actually creates the ground loop!!! One rca pre out, no power to reciever, = no hum. As soon as the second rca preout is connected, still no power to reciever =hum!!! The second , third, fourth, and fifth rca's are actually creating 5 separate paths to ground!!!! I.E GROUND LOOP!!! If this is you?!?!? PLEASE PLEASE QUADRUPLE check every other possibility --- still hum!??? Call emotiva and tell them all other rca are ground to chassis but not your xpa-5.... There is a solution!!!!!!!!! Special thanks to Lonnie, Chad, and Emotiva for taking such awesome care of me!!!


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Sonnie said:


> I know that Audyssey states it sends a signal to set levels, distances and crossover points, then sends another signal to set filters for each listening position you measure. It clearly did not compensate for cutting my large peak in my 4520. You can see the evidence in my review... I dedicated a section to it.
> 
> With Sub EQ HT and two subs, it asks you to level match the two subs before going any further, although you can ignore it if you want. It still sends a signal to each sub and sets the delay prior to sending another signal and setting the EQ filters.
> 
> What you may be seeing is Dynamic EQ kicking in if you are measuring at lower volumes. It turns on Dynamic EQ by default, which will bump up the low end at lower volumes. OR your peak may not be all that bad and it could just be equalizing it all like it should be. OR perhaps you are one of the lucky ones that for whatever reasons Audyssey did it right. I have seen it on numerous occasions NOT get it right.


Hmm, well I believe you. Certainly sounds like Audyssey can be implemented correctly or incorrectly. Below are my results with my 809. Master volume was not changed at all between sweeps, just Audyssey off, on, DEQ on. The 30Hz and 60ish Hz modes were cut and the overall level was subsequently increased, as seen in the 10Hz response which is outside of Audyssey's range. About 5dB in this case. DEQ then adds its own increase.

At any rate, I wouldn't be surprised if this was not the case in all implementations and for all systems. Just my experience.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Mechsmoto said:


> The lack of the rca's being ground to the chassis in the xpa 5 (in this particular setup) actually creates the ground loop!!! One rca pre out, no power to reciever, = no hum. As soon as the second rca preout is connected, still no power to reciever =hum!!! The second , third, fourth, and fifth rca's are actually creating 5 separate paths to ground!!!! I.E GROUND LOOP!!! If this is you?!?!? PLEASE PLEASE QUADRUPLE check every other possibility --- still hum!??? Call emotiva and tell them all other rca are ground to chassis but not your xpa-5.... There is a solution!!!!!!!!! Special thanks to Lonnie, Chad, and Emotiva for taking such awesome care of me!!!


How did you resolve this? Sounds like it was an interesting troubleshoot and explanation. How do all the other MAJOR manufacturers have their RCA's grounded and not Emotiva?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

vann_d said:


> Hmm, well I believe you. Certainly sounds like Audyssey can be implemented correctly or incorrectly. Below are my results with my 809. Master volume was not changed at all between sweeps, just Audyssey off, on, DEQ on. The 30Hz and 60ish Hz modes were cut and the overall level was subsequently increased, as seen in the 10Hz response which is outside of Audyssey's range. About 5dB in this case. DEQ then adds its own increase.
> 
> At any rate, I wouldn't be surprised if this was not the case in all implementations and for all systems. Just my experience.



What you are seeing is not levels between subs and mains being adjusted, you are simply seeing equalization. You don't even have your mains turned on in those measurements. We are talking about sub levels in relation to mains. 

At any rate... your peak is not that bad... it is very minor. In many cases we see 15-20dB peaks that have to be dealt with. Audyssey has had a lot of trouble with those.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Sonnie said:


> What you are seeing is not levels between subs and mains being adjusted, you are simply seeing equalization. You don't even have your mains turned on in those measurements. We are talking about sub levels in relation to mains.
> 
> At any rate... your peak is not that bad... it is very minor. In many cases we see 15-20dB peaks that have to be dealt with. Audyssey has had a lot of trouble with those.


Point taken 



vann_d said:


> How did you resolve this? Sounds like it was an interesting troubleshoot and explanation. How do all the other MAJOR manufacturers have their RCA's grounded and not Emotiva?


Ah, I see your other thread now. Had to return to Emotiva. Interested to see how it goes...


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## mojogoes (Feb 11, 2008)

magic said:


> No. Only 1 mic. Needed
> 
> Yes. it eq subs.....but.....
> 
> ...


Hi guys!! how would you eq with this receiver if you also had two diy subs running through a 8033 cinema off one channel of an ep4000 in 4ohm bridged mode.............would it be just a case of eq'ing the subs via ant-mode first and then all speakers with xt32.....................as the out put from the subs seems low doing it this way which I realise is recommended.:blink:


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

Vann d. Yes sir, it was a fun trouble shoot. Days on end of cables, speakers, and components scattered around the theater!!!! I'd try everything I could think of, and then try it all again. Put it all back together, stress and research all week long trying to find a new idea to try for the coming weekend.... This went on for months!!! I'm a mechanic for 15 years... NOT being able to figure it out wasn't an option!!! Lol!! The amp shipped today... I'll have it Thursday and will definitely let you know how it turns out. From talks with Lonnie, the odds of a tomb like silence are very high!!!!!! Much much better than hum from my listening position!!!!

Question for Greg... what are your 929 levels coming back at after running xt32??? Mine are all normal (0 to -2.0)....with the exception if the center channel(-7.0??)... everything sounds ok... but I do have a concern with that center channel setting. Just wondering if you may be having similar results. I've tried many different calibrations and all com back with very similar results.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

mojogoes said:


> Hi guys!! how would you eq with this receiver if you also had two diy subs running through a 8033 cinema off one channel of an ep4000 in 4ohm bridged mode.............would it be just a case of eq'ing the subs via ant-mode first and then all speakers with xt32.....................as the out put from the subs seems low doing it this way which I realise is recommended.:blink:


This would be a good question for another thread, so that we don't hijack this thread. :T


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

[QUOTE="Question for Greg... what are your 929 levels coming back at after running xt32??? Mine are all normal (0 to -2.0)....with the exception if the center channel(-7.0??)... everything sounds ok... but I do have a concern with that center channel setting. Just wondering if you may be having similar results. I've tried many different calibrations and all com back with very similar results."[/QUOTE] 

Actually all mine come back as slightly positive numbers, except my subs. XT32 puts my subs sat -3.5db, and the rest range from +3.0 to +4.5db. I believe that is the adjustment to get reference level to occur at the 82db mark on the volume dial, which Onkyo pegs as "reference." I did have one of my fronts at +6.0db but it had a blown tweeter. 

Replacing that cured the issue and it came in at the same range as the others after re-running Audyssey. My speakers are the RSL (www.rslspeakers.com) which while I love them as speakers, are slightly power hungry, rated at 85db sensitivity. 

The subs are likely only showing as -3.5db (which is approximately 7.0db lower than the rest) because they are dual subs, for a 9.2 setup vs .1 If your centre is showing as out of whack, what you can do is go into the Speaker Settings and level EVERYTHING back out at +0.0db and then go to Level Calibration. It will produce test tones at equal level output for each connected speaker. 

Use a SPL meter to measure the output at 1 foot distance. The output you see on the meter should mimic the differences shown in Audyssey. If there's no accounting for the difference at Center (eg. It's basically the same speakers as the L&R, then the levels should tell you if there is a problem.) 

All speakers, assuming they're the same make and model, should test the same. If the differences you see on the SPL meter match the ranges you see in Audyssey, and that makes sense, everything is probably fine. 

In my case, I have identical L/C/R speakers, but one tested 3db lower. It had a blown driver. Easy fix. 

Make sense? 

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

Sorry. The Quote function appears lost on me today.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Mechsmoto said:


> Vann d. Yes sir, it was a fun trouble shoot. Days on end of cables, speakers, and components scattered around the theater!!!! I'd try everything I could think of, and then try it all again. Put it all back together, stress and research all week long trying to find a new idea to try for the coming weekend.... This went on for months!!! I'm a mechanic for 15 years... NOT being able to figure it out wasn't an option!!! Lol!! The amp shipped today... I'll have it Thursday and will definitely let you know how it turns out. From talks with Lonnie, the odds of a tomb like silence are very high!!!!!! Much much better than hum from my listening position!!!!


Hey man, I said interesting, not fun :rofl: Trust me, I hear ya. Can't stand it when stuff doesn't go like it should. Good luck! Hope the tomb like silence doesn't mean you won't hear anything at all :bigsmile:, I mean like, ever...


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## mojogoes (Feb 11, 2008)

Sonnie said:


> This would be a good question for another thread, so that we don't hijack this thread. :T


Thank you for the advice as I've done just that now:T


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

Greg, thanks for the detailed reply bro!! I appreciate your time!! The subs sound about right. I set my at 70's individually to reach 70's combined this results in -2.0 on my unit.. (Audrey mics are supposedly accurate within 1-2db--- -3.5 matches that. 

Also, my mains are 90 db efficient (monitor 70) so me being at zero, and you being around +5-6 db also sound pretty good as your mains are 85db. 

The only thing I can think of with my center is its almost in a cave... meaning it's on the tv stand(foam under to isolate it), in between the two towers, and just behind and above is the 60" plasma... I'm thinking there may be too much reflection coming from there... not to mention it's only 6 ft away... and pointed dead at the mic when calibrating. 

I have a generic spl meter app in the phone. It actually matches aides sets readings within a db or two. I'm curious to see how deep into the negatives the gain will go when I add back in the xpa5 tomorrow? Time will tell?!?!? Lots of pacing and nail biting for me, until it arrives...... lol!!!


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

That's 70db's individually to reach 75db's combined on the subs. My phone is my computer, and spell check doesn't like me!!!


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

Me being 0-2db's and you being 5-6 db's higher at +3-4dbs also sounds good. Sorry again for the spell check slaughter. I'll start proof reading before I submit!!! Newbies...I tell ya!!!! Lol


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

gregsdouglas said:


> Great to hear! Actually a similar story to mine - faulty 818 (except I kept the box!) and Onkyo, after two attempts to repair at the local shop plus another crack at a repair at the Canadian national facility in Vancouver, and I also have a 929 now. That I love. Good on ya for being persistent. It seems to take some effort on a customer's part to accomplish, but in the end, Onkyo appears to take good care of their customers! Cheers, glad it worked out!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


So far my 818 is working fine, lol nice upgrade 929 is the newer better 818:T

828 is a lot lesser than 818.


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

Yep. The 828 is a step down, the 929 is a slight step up - two extra channels, and Bluetooth & wifi if that's useful.

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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

Was sure a shame to get a bad 818 and to have an issue with the xpa5 at the same time. Thankfully, though persistence, and a whole lot of patience. I've been able to successfully deal with both ONKYO and EMOTIVA and obtain two perfectly working units!!!! The modified xpa5(other thread), is all but completely silent. It's requires an "ear in the grill" approach to notice any noise at all and even then it requires effort!!!

Imo the 929 is an outstanding reciever, easily the nicest avr I've had the privilege of placing in my system. It's powerful and clean, xt32 is fantastic!!! You'll never notice you needed the headroom and clarity that the xpa5 gives you...until you have it. However, once you do, and it's all dialed in correctly.... you're in for a real treat!!!! 

As far as dealing with the two companies for the issues... they weren't exactly POLK AUDIO (I know the high guys will laugh of me calling out POLK)--- but THAT company is the definition of CUSTOMER SERVICE!!!!! I've always used their speakers, and any time I've ever had an issue... be it with a driver, a psw 505 amp, and eventually a psw 505's enclosure.... it was simply one call -- "this is my issue"--- and a few days later whatever you needed was at your door. 

Onkyo and Emotiva took a lot more effort.... Onkyo nearly failing-- then, finally coming through. Emotiva never failing, just reluctant to believe the ground loop wasn't my systems fault. Once the issue was pin pointed, I have to say it was only 2 weeks in between the call tag being sent, repair completed, and receiving it at the door!!!! Wish they would have sent the full precision audio testing.. not just signal to noise ratio.. but other than that.... I'm one super happy, super relieved, audio addict that wishes it wasn't 2 am right now so I could blow some up!!!!!! Fast 6? Wolverine - hiroshima opening scene... oh man, with xv15's.... it's like my room bends (effortlessly i might add) when the nuke goes off!!!! I've tried to post some pics so you guys can "see" the setup... I've done some custom bass traps, and diy treatments that turned out pretty decent... but my pics are 2mb and the max upload is 293kb??? If anyone could help me with that???...I'd appreciate it??!!!


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)




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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Nice setup! I bet those two pressurize the room nicely. I'm not sure of "the best" way to show larger photos, but I use Photobucket to host the photo and create a link to that photo from my post.


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## Mechsmoto (Aug 5, 2013)

Thanks Doug c!!! Yep I have to day those xv15's are more power than I could ever need in here!!! I wrote Tom at PSA TOP NOTCH customer service by the way!!!!!! Just a real pleasure of a guy to deal with!!!!! The back of the room is actually open to a small room on one side and a bigger room on the left.... even with the that, the gain on each sub is barely at 12 on their gains. When ever i wanna scare the out of someone new to the room... i can sit on top of one of the subs... turn the gain to 2-2:30 for a minute (it still is effortlessly hammering out bass but I'll just say I've never once had anyone ask me to turn it back up orrrrrrrr even ask what the second sub turned up simultaneously to 2-2:30 on its gain would feel like! !!!! Lol!!!! Just really incredible subs.. couldn't imagine what a pair of the xv30's, or triax... would feel like!?!?!? Maybe one day should I budget allow.... I guarantee you I'll find out!!!!!!! Woooo hooo!!!!!!!! I think I mentioned before, in wolverine opening scene... where they drop the bomb.... When it ignites...wooooooooooowwwwww at 12 pm loafing along... I seriously without exaggeration feel like the room and everything in it bends bro... no !!!!! Evil laugh!!!!!! .....lol!!! 

If im honest, Tom is the one who actually suggested treatments somewhere along the way in our emails back and forth. Once I started searching I found out the treatments were outrageously priced!!! I kept searching as I will always find a way to get it done. I ended up building the corner super chunk traps for $50 I think it was for the pair. Cheap fabric from walmart, furring strip for all the framing from home depot, 3 V braces anchored into the corner, Owens corning unfaced r30 from home depot 25' rolls are $11-12 won't find anything cheap ever in life, I used a staple gun for the face of the traps... made a simple rectangle frame from the furring strips, then stapled the front and back of the strips to each other... and put a third curing strip in the center stapling both sides as well... was actually fairly stable... enough to gently wrap it's front with the fabric. .. and then screw it into place.. via the 3 corner View braces(which gives it it's real strength)..... After of course cutting the insulation into squares from the roll (use a furring strip to press down on the fluffy insulation to make it easier to cut) and then cut the squares diagonally corner to corner.... The is will give you the most out of the roll. 2 rolls made all of the traps I have in here... which are the corner traps and 10 acoustic panels. Take your time to think out your measurements so you can get the most from the materials is a helpful hint... i did this and it saved me a lot if money... I bought precisely what I needed by for example: the furring strips are 8 ft in length..... 96".... divided by 3 gives 32".... This was the height of all my acoustic panels minus the bass traps and the two placed behind the towers--- as they are taller and I thought it looked better (my only splurge...lol!!) 

Anyway, enough rambling.... think I "high jacked" my own thread a couple times there!!!!! If any of you guys want to try it out... i could probably put together a build thread.... If it doesn't already exist???.(I'm sure there are a Ton already)


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