# Help with Home Theater Processor



## GOSU (Feb 28, 2009)

I have been thinking about replacing my Sherbourn 7010 processor with a new home theater processor that has the latest HD audio/video, HDMI switching and room correction features (Audyssey/Trinnov). I am looking for a processor that would be as close to “future proof” for the next five years as is available. I would pair the processor with my Sherbourn 7/2100 amp and Rocket 850s, 250s and a Bigfoot, as well as a JL Fathom 113 sub (and a non-working Rocket UFW-12 sub if I ever receive the repair). I also have a P-1 and P-3 with SOCS. I use a Denon 2910 for CDs and a PS3 for DVDs and Bluerays.

I was ready to purchase the Integra 9.9/Onkyo 887 which has all the features that I would ever want and can be purchased for substantially less than $2,000. Then I read the audio quality shootout of processors on AVS that was performed last year and I recently spoke to the sponsor of the shootout to obtain more information on the results and methodology of the shootout. 

The shootout rated the Integra in last place for audio quality. Although I have not completely ruled out the Integra, the shootout has caused me to pause and to consider other options.

The B&K Ref 70 was the overwhelming pick by the 15 or so reviewers in the shootout as the best sounding processor, followed by the Marantz AV8003 and then by a Denon receiver. After doing some research, I have discovered that B&K builds its processors in the U.S. and is highly-regarded in the audio community. I have found a dealer who will sell me one at substantially less than retail price. The problem is that the B&K does not yet have the latest HD audio and room correction features. The software upgrades which will supposedly add these features are still in development. AV123 has taught me not to purchase audio equipment based on promises of future performance or features. 

I have also been reading what I can about two other processors that are touted to have the robust feature sets that I am seeking: the Sherbourn/Emotiva and the Outlaw/Sherwood processors. Unfortunately, they are both still in development and will probably not be available until later this year.

As a result, I am inclined to delay my purchase until the upgraded/new processors become available and have been reviewed unless there is another processor that I have overlooked that has the latest feature set, has been favorably reviewed and is available for delivery today. My budget is $1,500 to $3,000 (which rules out high end processors such as those offered by Anthem and Lexicon). Does anyone have any advice or recommendations on home theater processors that would meet my objectives?


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## skeeter99 (Jan 24, 2007)

Well, my 2 cents is wait for the Outlaw. I'm gonna scrimp and save to pick one of those things up. I have an Onkyo 805 now and the thing bites. Well, let me rephrase that, it doesn't bite for everything, it does _decently_ for HT and awful for music. From what I've heard about the Outlaws in general is that they are fantastic for both and with the new Trinnov room opitimzer, it should be a total giant killer for the price. 

Oh, and Jess agrees with me too so that makes my word doubly important


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

+1
I wouldn't buy anything until the Outlaw comes out.
I am going a totally different route, but if I wasn't I would definitely wait for reviews on the Outlaw. I have a lot of their gear and they are a great HT company.


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## gwilks98 (May 3, 2008)

skeeter99 said:


> Well, my 2 cents is wait for the Outlaw. I'm gonna scrimp and save to pick one of those things up. I have an Onkyo 805 now and the thing bites. Well, let me rephrase that, it doesn't bite for everything, it does _decently_ for HT and awful for music. From what I've heard about the Outlaws in general is that they are fantastic for both and with the new Trinnov room opitimzer, it should be a total giant killer for the price.
> 
> Oh, and Jess agrees with me too so that makes my word doubly important


I assume you're referring to the 997, is that correct?


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## skeeter99 (Jan 24, 2007)

gwilks98 said:


> I assume you're referring to the 997, is that correct?


Correct :clapper:


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

Emotiva also has theirs coming out which looks spectacular (and cheap). That said, I have and love the Integra 9.8. I don't agree with some of the results personally from that shootout. But ce la vie.


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## GOSU (Feb 28, 2009)

madpoet said:


> Emotiva also has theirs coming out which looks spectacular (and cheap). That said, I have and love the Integra 9.8. I don't agree with some of the results personally from that shootout. But ce la vie.


I may still purchase the Integra but it is not as easy a decision since I read the shootout results.


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## imported_obie_fl (Apr 13, 2008)

To this day I can't believe all the Pre/Pro companies waited (let me correct myself... many are still waiting) on HDMI 1.3 to finalize...the notable exception being Anthem. People love features but the truth is HDMI1.1 can do everything you need if paired with the correct gear. I really cringed when I shelled out the bucks for my Anthem D2 and had a tinge of guilt dumping that kind of money on a piece of gear. Here it is two and a half years later and I'm convinced it is the best piece of A/V gear I ever bought. I can do Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA, DVD-A and SACD over my older 1.1 interface and really don't feel the need to upgrade now that the 1.3 D2v is out. 

OK I'm through with the rant but the moral of the story is you have to jump in sooner or later, I really wanted to wait on the Outlaw but **** I'm glad I didn't as it was over two years ago. So what do you do? Couple of ideas.

Get a low end HDMI receiver and use it as a stop gap until the Outlaw or Emotiva show up. 
Get the Integra and likely always wonder if it really is ******. 
Get an Anthem. I know too expensive but here is an idea that may be feasible. See if you can find a AVM-50 or 40 on the used market since people are starting to update to the "v" models. Anthem has always been very good about upgrades so down the road when your budget has recovered do the upgrade.


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

I also looked at the Marantz AV8003 briefly. Here's some of my logic:

The Outlaw 990's audio quality was considered comparable, but different, to the Emotiva DMC-1 audio quality.
The Outlaw 997's audio quality is probably comparable to the Outlaw 990 audio quality. (???)
If so, it is worth looking at other processors that would have better audio quality.
But those candidate processors cost more....


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## Winterweary (Jan 29, 2009)

NekoAudio said:


> I also looked at the Marantz AV8003 briefly. Here's some of my logic:
> 
> The Outlaw 990's audio quality was considered comparable, but different, to the Emotiva DMC-1 audio quality.
> The Outlaw 997's audio quality is probably comparable to the Outlaw 990 audio quality. (???)
> ...


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

Well the Marantz AV8003 for one. Don't have much to go on with this unit.

Someone I know just purchased an Anthem Statement D2 with the newest firmware, so maybe I'll get a chance to hear that. I'm a little skeptical about the sound, but he likes it so I should give it a chance.

There's the Integra DHC-9.9 and its predecessors but I was worried that's in the measures-well-but-sounds-okay category. The OP seems to support that.

There's the Cary Cinema 11a. But it doesn't have advanced room correction and some sort of bass signal bug.

I probably will just end up getting the Outlaw 997, since I'll only be using it for movies and not music.


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

Wait... if you don't care about 2 channel music, then the Integra kills! Hell, Kris Deering still uses it even for 2 channel.


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## Jonathon Janusz (Nov 22, 2008)

I've been thinking about saving up some money and replacing my Outlaw 990 with a used Anthem AVM-20 if I can find one reasonably priced. I don't need any of the new formats (not planning on BR any time soon), so for music use, do folks who have had both think I'm moving up, or should I just stick with what I've got?


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## se-riously (Mar 6, 2009)

Jonathon Janusz said:


> I've been thinking about saving up some money and replacing my Outlaw 990 with a used Anthem AVM-20 if I can find one reasonably priced. I don't need any of the new formats (not planning on BR any time soon), so for music use, do folks who have had both think I'm moving up, or should I just stick with what I've got?


Hi JJ,

I've owned both the 990 and the AVM-20. I noticed an improvement in HT. I didn't do much 2-channel with either. The biggest difference in HT was how the Anthem seemed to do a little better job with "surround immersion", where I had more difficulty localizing the surround effects. But I guess that's the whole point right? :sly:

If you don't care about the latest codecs, I would consider it a somewhat inexpensive upgrade since you should fetch around $500 for the Outlaw and there's a AVM 20 version 2.21 on Audiogon for $650 obo.

Bryant

And to the subject of this thread, I have an Integra 9.8 now. I haven't given it a shakedown yet, but it works for me so far...


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

With the $3k budget cap, I'm surprised there aren't more mentions for Anthem.

You mentioned future proof. Anthem's units are/have been upgradable both in hardware and software.

With that budget, I think the Anthem would be near or at the top of my list.


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

Anthem was a NIGHTMARE around the upgrades to the 20/30 over the last couple years. It's why I ditched my 20. Maybe they've fixed it, I haven't looked lately. But it was brutal.


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## SomeCiscoGuy (Dec 6, 2008)

I'm very interested in this topic as well - would like to stay under 3k as well for now.

For those that have taken their Anthem's and had them upgraded, could you provide some feedback on how much of a PITA it was or wasn't as well as how long it took?

I'm seriously considering the Integra 9.9 as waiting for the XMC-1 may(will) take too long. The Anthem AVM30,40 or 50 look pretty good as well as do some of the D2s available on Audiogon but if the upgrade process is painful I may be too impatient to deal with it. 

Usage is 90/10 HT/2 Channel now so HT is more important for me. If the SQ on the Integra for HT is top-notch, then it becomes a bit of a no-brainer. If the SQ on the Integra for HT is "ok", then its a different story. I'd be interested in hearing from those who own the DHC 9.9 on this...

Thanks 

SCG


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

I can only comment on the 9.8 but they are almost exactly the same machine. I LOVE it. Absolutely loaded with features, fairly easy to navigate, and it does a nice job with any source I thorw at it. I am 90/10 HT/Music myself. I willsay if you want it for the video scaler features... then you want a different box. It's just not that great. I have mine disabled completely for video because it can introduce some artifacts.


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## mahdlokg (Nov 24, 2008)

*Processors*

Current processors that offer (or will offer soon) current codecs and HDMI 1.3a connectivity include:

B&K REF 70
Marantz AV-8003
Cary 11a

Of the 3, I had almost decided on the B&K except for the fact that they have yet to add the Dolby TrueHD and dts Master Audio.

That leaves the Marantz and the Cary. Of the two I've decided to opt for the Marantz. I am aware of its limitations with bitstreaming HD material (without Audyssey applied and I am aware of the work around. I can live with that.

I've decided to bypass the Cary for the following reasons. Although Cary has a highly regarded reputation, I still feel that feel that their support for HT processors is not their top priority nor do they have a staff large enough to assign it as a top priority. Check the AVS forum and you will see what the owners are dealing with.

Anyway, currently the Marantz has the most up to date codecs, can run them via PCM with room correction and have had no major hardware problems. 

I currently have the Marantz SR8002 receiver. I'm getting ready to add a separate amp, and then will add the AV8003 (unless) B&K gets their head out of their.......I mean unless B&K happens to address the codec upgrade soon...Just one man's opinion.....

I realize that if we all wait their will be many more processors coming down the line. But for approz 2-2100 selling price, the Marantz IMHO has everything I am looking for including great SQ.

Just my $ .02 worth


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## SomeCiscoGuy (Dec 6, 2008)

madpoet said:


> I can only comment on the 9.8 but they are almost exactly the same machine. I LOVE it. Absolutely loaded with features, fairly easy to navigate, and it does a nice job with any source I thorw at it. I am 90/10 HT/Music myself. I willsay if you want it for the video scaler features... then you want a different box. It's just not that great. I have mine disabled completely for video because it can introduce some artifacts.


MP - what types of artifacts have you seen? Right now my three main sources are:

PS3 for Blu Ray
Toshiba XA2 for HD-DVD and regular DVD (has the Reon it as does the 9.9)
HD Cable Box - Scientific Atlanta 8300HD

All are connected directly to my TV (Mitsu 65" DLP) via HDMI. I'd like to connect them via the Pre-Amp but if it introduces artifacts I would avoid (does the video switching introduce artifacts or only if the scaling feature is turned on?). Any info you can provide is appreciated.

Thanks

SCG


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

It screws with the color space I believe if you leave the scaler turned on. It's pretty well documented in the AVS thread on the 9.8. As long as you turn the video processing off (which isn't hard at all) it just becomes an HDMI switcher in terms of video. That's exactly how I have it now with my 4 HDMI sources.


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## SomeCiscoGuy (Dec 6, 2008)

Thanks MP.

Sound Quality wise it sounds like you have no complaints with the 9.8 - would you please confirm and would you mind posting the other components of your system or PM them to me? I'd like to help level set on my expectations.

Thanks

SCG


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

mahdlokg said:


> I currently have the Marantz SR8002 receiver. I'm getting ready to add a separate amp, and then will add the AV8003


Someone on AVSForum mentioned the SR8002 receiver's internals to be basically the same as the AV8003. Are you switching to the AV8003 specifically to go the separates route? Or do you expect there to be an improvement in sound quality?

I'm currently leaning towards the AV8003, if I don't wait for the 997.


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## SomeCiscoGuy (Dec 6, 2008)

I finally took a decent look at the 8003...now I've got more reading to do. 

It seems to be at the minimum (spec wise) equal to the 9.9 and I don't hear many complaints about the Marantz's SQ on any of their products...Anyone able to point me to a direct comparison or done a direct comparison of their own? Info is appreciated and I apologize in advance if this has been asked before but right now I am being too lazy to look (hey, at least I can admit it )


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## mahdlokg (Nov 24, 2008)

I may have been one of those who said that, but I have heard that from other sources including two Marantz dealers. If I go to the AV8003, I plan to keep the SR8002 for a second system. I am going to get the separate amp first, to see what differences, if any, I hear. If there are no noticable differences, I might be very tempted to buy a SR7002 or SR6003 to use as a pre/pro.



NekoAudio said:


> Someone on AVSForum mentioned the SR8002 receiver's internals to be basically the same as the AV8003. Are you switching to the AV8003 specifically to go the separates route? Or do you expect there to be an improvement in sound quality?
> 
> I'm currently leaning towards the AV8003, if I don't wait for the 997.


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## GOSU (Feb 28, 2009)

SomeCiscoGuy said:


> I finally took a decent look at the 8003...now I've got more reading to do.
> 
> It seems to be at the minimum (spec wise) equal to the 9.9 and I don't hear many complaints about the Marantz's SQ on any of their products...Anyone able to point me to a direct comparison or done a direct comparison of their own? Info is appreciated and I apologize in advance if this has been asked before but right now I am being too lazy to look (hey, at least I can admit it )


Here is the link to the shootout thread in AVS that I referred to in my original post and that included the Marantz, Integra 9.8 and B&K: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1065162


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## SomeCiscoGuy (Dec 6, 2008)

Thanks GOSU.

I read the thread and since it was all done as a 2 channel comparison, I'm not sure how applicable their "reviews" were to my needs, but again thank you for pointing me to it. 

I'm going to see if I can get my new pre-pro prior to the GTG but it looks like the wife wants a fence so it may not be by 5/16...


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## imported_obie_fl (Apr 13, 2008)

Someone above was asking about the Anthem upgrade. The upgrade pricing for the AVM-50 and D2 to the "V" versions hasn't been announced yet. Further more it looks like the upgrade has been pushed out to this summer. Apparently there is a chip shortage that is impacting both the new "v" version availability and the upgrade. 

I really haven't decided on whether I'm going to upgrade mine... it really depends on the price because I don't need the extra HDMI inputs or the 1.3 for reasons I mentioned on the first page of the thread.


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## TJEli (Nov 10, 2008)

WHat does anyone know about the upcoming UMC-1 from Emo? Supposedly it will be available soon.....


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

I don't consider the Emotiva UMC-1 in the same sound quality ballpark as the Integra, Cary, Anthem, or Marantz. I currently have a DMC-1 and MPS-1 combo and while they're excellent values I want something of better quality than the DMC-1.


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## imported_obie_fl (Apr 13, 2008)

Got to ask... how do you know the sound quality of Pre/Pro that hasn't been released yet? Did I miss a memo? :no clue: It looks like an impressive piece for the $$$ but if it is buggy all bets are off.


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

In part because price means something when it's not being artificially inflated. 

It's just my guess and opinion. I'm basing things off my historical knowledge of the brands I mentioned and what I've heard myself so far. I haven't done a direct comparison or heard the specific units in question. Feel free to ignore my opinion. 

I'm really tempted to pick up a Marantz AV8003 right now. The only thing stopping me is the price. :-S


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

While I was initially impressed with the Emotiva DMC-1, particularly coming from a Yamaha RX-V1400, I've since had a chance to listen to lots more gear and I'm no longer as impressed.

That, coupled with my own opinions on Emotiva the company, has made me want to try the Outlaw 997 instead this time. But the delays have pushed me towards the Marantz. I did own an Outlaw 7100 before.

My prejudice towards the Anthem D2 is that it will sound very clean but maybe too dry. Like the Onix Ref 1's which are articulate but I didn't enjoy them so much. Regardless, it is much more expensive. I do like my Anthem TLP-1.

I have heard a few Cary pieces and think they sound pretty good. Which is where I think the Cary 11a is probably of similar sound quality. But there's a bug in it.

Some other pieces of equipment I've heard and aren't looking at much anymore are Parasound (their Halo P3 turned me off, although Kal Rubinson really loved the P7 sound quality and I think their amps are pretty good), NAD, Rotel, Halcro (wasn't impressed with the amp I listened to).

Sure, I'm applying an opinion for model A onto model B of the same brand or filtering out possibilities based on my research. But I don't think that's super unreasonable and I apply the same logic to other types of products. I don't have time or money to just try them all.


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## GOSU (Feb 28, 2009)

Josuah said:


> That, coupled with my own opinions on Emotiva the company, has made me want to try the Outlaw 997 instead this time.


My understanding is that the Outlaw 997 is being developed by Sherwood. Sherwood will sell the integrated receiver and, a few months after the receiver is introduced, Outlaw will sell the pre-pro . I have read that the development schedule has been delayed several times. Does anyone have any experience with Sherwood?


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

GOSU said:


> Does anyone have any experience with Sherwood?


All I really know is their Newcastle line is considered decent, but I've never heard anything one way or the other about their non-Newcastle line. A local dealership was selling the Newcastle line a couple of years ago.

The R-972 has an MSRP of $1500. Since the 997 sold Internet-direct is $1400, well, you could argue the 997's price point is a dealer price point....

Anyway, I just ordered an AV8003. I'll post my opinions of it compared to the DMC-1 once it arrives. Probably a couple of weeks.


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## GOSU (Feb 28, 2009)

Josuah said:


> Anyway, I just ordered an AV8003. I'll post my opinions of it compared to the DMC-1 once it arrives. Probably a couple of weeks.


I would be very interested in hearing your opinions on the AV8003. Have fun.


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## SomeCiscoGuy (Dec 6, 2008)

Anyone know the current "street price" for the DHC 9.9? I've seen some posts on AVS where folks were able to get it for 1600-1800 at their local dealer - I'm interested to know if anyone else has had that luck or knows of a different (read equal to or better) price.

Thanks


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

I paid $1500 cash for my 9.8 when it was brand new, so I'm sure you can get the 9.9 in the $1600 range.


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

Got the AV8003. Did a very quick comparison between it and the DMC-1, but since they are both HT processors I had to spend time swapping one out for the other. I made sure all of the EQ was off on the AV8003.

Brief impressions of the AV8003 are positive over the DMC-1. It seems to have a slightly cleaner sound and to be capable of reproducing music with a little more detail. The non-primary melodies are better.


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

After further listening with the AV8003, I'm confident in saying the Marantz provides much better sound quality. I am hearing things that were simply missing with the Emotiva DMC-1. Additionally, the DMC-1's ground issues and noise floor are not present with the Marantz.


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## GOSU (Feb 28, 2009)

Josuah said:


> After further listening with the AV8003, I'm confident in saying the Marantz provides much better sound quality. I am hearing things that were simply missing with the Emotiva DMC-1. Additionally, the DMC-1's ground issues and noise floor are not present with the Marantz.


Thanks for the update. I hope you will again share your views when you have had more time to listen to the AV8003.


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