# DAC with tube stage and tube preamp



## sportflyer (May 2, 2010)

Is there any advantage of using a DAC with a tube stage when I already have a tube preamp?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

I agree that tubes offer better (different??) sound than solid state, and opinions _will_ vary on this question. I would state that since you have a tube preamp, the quality of the DACs (not output section) will be the most significant factor in the sound quality. 

Perhaps if you can list a few models that you are considering it would help answer your question with more authority. :wave:


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## sportflyer (May 2, 2010)

I have just started to look seriously into DACs . Max cost around $1000 ( new or used) . I dont listen to head phones. USB is not needed. The computer is in another room and I stream the music files using ethernet . I use either the WDTV Live as the media player or use the Onkyo Receiver in DLNA mode to receive the digital stream. I was thinking of using an EXT DAC to handle the streamed music files and also as Ext DAC for the Oppo 980H CD player. I am also not sure how much I would gain from using an Ext DAC compared to the Onkyo internal DAC . 

I have several candidates in mind , in no particular order of preference 

Audio -GD 3.1
Yulong D18
Metrum Octave
EE minimax
PS Audio D link 3
Burson Audio ( used) 
Others ? 

I prefer something that I can listen to for hours and not fatiguing . I don't know enough to follow the debate details of NOS DAC vs upsampling DACs as signal processing is not my specialty. So I am open to both but would at least require sampling rate of 92khz. 

Thanks


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Does you AVR convert all signals to digital? Some AVRs and SSPs first convert _all_ incoming signals to digital; if this is the case then I doubt that an outboard DAC would offer much improvement. Your AVR may have a "direct" or "pure" mode that bypasses conversion in which case a quality DAC may improve sq. Perhaps I misunderstood your original post as I thought that you were using a tube preamp. :scratch:

"Non-fatiguing" is a term often used to describe the sound of a well designed piece of tube equipment.  I personally LOVE tubes and plan on adding a tube preamp asap!


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## sportflyer (May 2, 2010)

The Onkyo has a Direct Mode as well as a Pure Audio mode . In both cases I believe all signals are "minimally processed" ie only the Volume control function is used. ( no bass management and no Audyssey). Surprisingly, I can also use the Tape Out thereby bypassing even the v/c for digital streams thru ethernet . Tape out won't work for Coax or Toslink fed signals  

When I listen to 2 ch music , I use the preout of the Onkyo to feed the Tube Preamp ( Onkyo in Pure Audio mode) then to an ext SS power amp . The Oppo is connected to Onkyo via Coax and my computer is connected to the Onkyo via Ethernet . So basically I am using the Onkyo's internal DAC .

The question is will the DACs listed above make a palpable SQ difference ? 

Yes get a tube preamp ASAP . The Jolida Fusion with NOS tubes sound fantastic  I replaced original tubes with RCA 5751 black plate triple Mica and Mullard M8162.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

sportflyer said:


> Is there any advantage of using a DAC with a tube stage when I already have a tube preamp?


Hello,
I personally have not been that blown away by DAC's that incorporate a Tube in it. Especially when using a Tube Preamp I do not think the juice is worth the squeeze.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sportflyer (May 2, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I personally have not been that blown away by DAC's that incorporate a Tube in it. Especially when using a Tube Preamp I do not think the juice is worth the squeeze.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I tend to agree . It's interesting that some people buy the EE Minimax , then discard the tube and roll the opamps for better sound ! 

Now looking for SS DACs


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## gmant123 (Jan 1, 2011)

Hi All!!

There are several reasons to have tubes in the signal path.

The best performance in the DAC is obtained by taking the signal directly from the chip, but as we all have different equipament (preamp, amp, cables) the manufacturers generally place an operational amplifier (integrated) to convert the unbalanced signal into balanced and other to adapt impedances and give some gain.

So in some cd players and dacs, operational amplifiers are changed by tubes or transformers.

Well implemented this solution produces a much better sound.

Sorry for my bad english.

Alberto.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

i would like to add a tube buffer.to my integrated amplifier.if you already have a good tube preamp.the tube in the dac probably isnt needed.so any high quality dac would be awesome.


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## Bones13 (Apr 24, 2013)

The PS Audio DL 3 is well regarded as a non-fatiguing source. I have one integrated into my house system, as its USB implementation is a bit past due. The SPDIF (optical and coax) both work well, and sound great when fed quality files.

Usually found either on sale, or used for $500 or less. Some of the ones you find listed higher will have mods. (mine does)


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

You will definitely hear a difference with the Jolida Glass FX DAC with the Underwood HiFi Level 2 modifications.
http://www.underwoodhifi.com/2012/06/jolida-fx-tube-dac.html?m=1


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

No one has ever heard a difference between one solid state DAC and another in a bias controlled listening test so I think the only way to alter the sound would be to use a tube in the output stage. That will add some distortion and changes in frequency response that may or may not appeal to you.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Fun discussion. I have not heard music from a tube amp in a decade or more. Will be fortunate to be attending Sonnie's speaker and amp listening sessions next week, and I am really curious whether or not I will be able to hear the difference. There will be several tube amps and a solid state amp for reference.

We will not have the luxury of a true double-blind setup - neither the equipment nor the time for that level of comparison - but are planning on some blind evaluation/comparison time. Any suggestions on how to go about that?


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