# Behringer products, are they good VFM and morso quality?



## tonyvdb

As there is not General discussion topic I hope this is ok here,
Interesting topic is being discussed over at the Home Theater Shack and I thought I would question it here.

If you are not a new user of Pro audio gear and have some knowledge as to what is recommended for gear would you buy Behringer products? Cost wise they seem to have great bang for buck but as this post here: (http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ging-endorsement-behringer-james-cameron.html) is discussing some think they make a very good quality product as well.

My personal take is that Behringer sells to the mass market. They dont sell to the pros. They sell to the new comer who has no clue about quality and durability but once they have bought and used Behringer gear for a while and realize the difference they wont buy again and will spend a few $$ more the next time for higher quality amps, processors and mixing consoles.

Whats your take?


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## ngarjuna

I generally agree with your take however there are products which they make that are very good value, the headphone amp being an example that comes to mind (in fairness I've never used it but I've read plenty of recommendations from people who would otherwise never buy a Behringer product). Can you buy much nicer headphone amps? You betcha. But for a lot of smaller facilities, that money could be far better spent on other items. Unless you have virtually unlimited coffers there is always going to be a value balance, the reality is that most of us cannot simply identify and buy what we consider "the best" in every category. Then the question for any piece of gear becomes: will it perform the function that I want with the quality that I want.

As with all things in Pro Audio it's best to examine each product for what it is (and maybe what it is not in some cases) lest you end up with a cabinet full of snake oil.


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## tonyvdb

ngarjuna said:


> As with all things in Pro Audio it's best to examine each product for what it is (and maybe what it is not in some cases) lest you end up with a cabinet full of snake oil.


I do fully agree with that statement


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## Stone

For the most part I think I'd agree with you in regards the the audience/users of Behringer products and more geared toward newcomers rather than professionals in the music industry. I raise my hand to being a newcomer and buying Behringer because I didn't know any better at the time. 

And as you said, after some experience you start to understand the technical side of things a bit more. I certainly would switch to something of a little higher quality had I stuck with spinning records. I guess everyone has to start somewhere. 

Regardless of where someone starts there is always an abundant amount of information to be learned in order to make wiser choices on future decisions :bigsmile:


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## tehguit

For the money i think they make some great stuff, i agree, the headphone amp is probably their best product because lets face it, if your talent can actually complains that the headphone amp is doing something to the sound they don't like, its a pretty petty call, unless they are used to thousands of dollars a day studios.

The way i look at behringer is think, how far do i want to take this. If you're planning on building a semi-professional studio, then you might want to consider saving up for a little while longer and buy some better gear to future proof yourself. But if its just a hobby that you like to play around with, its awesome. 
Their pencil mics aren't actually bad either and i'm sure anyone can find info on the ecm8000 monitor mic which seems to be the most popular choice..


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## Sandro Gomes

tonyvdb, I am not an Brand oriented Pro, I follow my feeling and of course my pocket :spend: .

I have a pair of Behringer Monitors Truth B2031A here at my little place and always heard good stuff about the B2 Mic they make. Of course I would like to have a pair of Genelec monitors and a great Neumann microphone, but the level of clients that I have would never pay for that, so I need to be realistic and work on their budget.

These monitors do the job very well so far, and I will not say that I won't buy Behringer again, but my next target is a surround monitoring system with KRK monitors, for me it is an upgrade, but Behringer was responsible for helping me to make the money for it, with their affordable monitors.

In my opinion, you don't need the best hardware to be a Pro, but you need to get the best from what you have or can have.

On the pic posted at the link you mention, James Cameron is using a Behringer mixer, I don't like them either, worked with few of them and the sound was really bad for me, the eqs almost make no difference and the noise was too much for my ears, but we don't know why they were using it there, maybe it was just fine for what they need at the time, I don't think they were using it at the final sound recording for the movie, but if it was just for a reference mix or something similar, that mix would do the job.

So, depending on your public and needs, Behringer can be a great affordable choice...


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I’m somewhat middle-of-the-road about Behringer. Some gear seems really good. Our church uses their direct box, and it’s built like a tank. 
But personally I can’t think of another brand where I’ve run across so much defective equipment (i.e. with some malfunction or in need of a repair) in non-demanding environments where the gear should be having an “easy life” – primarily churches. It’d be one thing if I was say, a service tech and visited dozens of facilities in any given year, but that’s not the case. I don’t get around to that many different places.


I saw a page on Behringer’s web site recently that discussed the company’s new factory in China. It noted that Behringer outsourced for many years, and had QC problems with their vendors. Things like, the vendor would “promise the moon” in order to get the contract, then “short sell” them and cut corners. Part of the problem was that employees were (naturally) loyal to their employer, not their employer’s clients. This might certainly account for the spotty reliability and availability problems they’ve had for many years.

Behringer has opened their own factory in China, so now the employees are theirs. So maybe the company’s worst days are behind them. However, they now have the “uphill” battle to overcome of a bad reputation. Reputations are more easily lost than won, methinks. The news that they had bought out Midas and Klark Teknik has not gone over well in the pro audio community.

Regards,
Wayne


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## jonathanm

Funny, I was thinking about this when I saw the post about cheap DI boxes......

I love Behringer gear, and as long as you see it for what it is, I think you can't go wrong.....

Some things like their mixers are a little noisy, but sometimes that doesn't really matter, and they do all the things that a mixer ought to do. If you need a cheap mixer for a non critical application, you can't go far wrong...monitor mixes, sub mixes, etc..

Things I've used that I rated as either excellent value or even just plain excellent:

The really small mixers
DI boxes
patchbay
MIDI controllers
DJ controllers
composer
ultradrive pro 
eurodrive power amps
DJ audio interface
ultracurve
feedback destroyer

probably more that I've forgotten....

Elsewhere on this forum, planetnine calls the dcx2496 one of Behringer's best kept secrets and says he uses them all the time...

Over on Gearslutz there is a thread where a guy compares the ADA8000 converter with a Lynx Aurora 16, and the Behringer did very well, although a few people said they had power supply issues. 

Having said that, you could buy 9 spares and still have a grand left in your pocket compared to the Lynx :T


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## tehguit

Also fwiw

over at the prodigy pro forums, theres a huge thread about modding the ada8000. Apparently the A/D/D/A conversion isn't the problem, its the analogue stage... which, if you're handy with a soldering iron, you can upgrade. Or just send it to a tech if you have the details.


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## DrGeoff

I think you will find that the power supply in the ADA8000 is more of a problem, as it can really get hot and is not a particularly good design.


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## Equilibrium8

Behringer make affordable products for a particular market. I have had lots of their gear over the years, some it was good and some of it wasn't. Point being that they served their purpose. I only sold the gear when I needed something better or it just didn't fulfill a function for me anymore. Right now, I still have an UltraCurve in my rack among much higher quality products, the use I get out of it doesn't justify spending lots of money on an expensive alternative. 

For beginners, there are 2 options:
1

Buy a few essential pieces of Behringer gear, 
learn to use it
get better at what you do
make money with it
upgrade when needed
 Now...you have better gear and a few years experience.
2

Get a menial job
Play video games
Save and buy great gear
Now...You have great gear and lost a lot of valuable time learning your craft.


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## spacedout

My personal opinion (FWIW) is that you generally get what you pay for... but there are exceptions. Those generally seem to be known about and appreciated for what they are. In my experience (which is by no means exhaustive), their gear doesn't seem to be as robustly built as some more expensive alternatives - my philosophy is that it's cheaper in the long run to buy gear that will last. I use some of their MIDI stuff (e.g. their very cheap, tiny controller for changing presets on my interface), and I'll also use them in non-critical parts of the signal chain, like their headphone amps or similar.

Having said all that, I know of several great musicians who are getting great sounds while using some of their gear... :whistling:


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## BentRabbit

When I was using ADAT on my Roland 2480 to bring in 8 more channels for tracking drums, I used the ADA8000 exclusively... Solid as a rock for over 2 years... My B-word DI's are the same... As someone already posted: 'built like tanks'.

That being said, a guitar player friend went through 3 Feedback Destroyers before giving up on em.
And then there's the whole 'light behind the tube' on their T1953 pres...

So... My take: Some good/Some bad

:spend:


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## bantam

my take is that they make a few good pieces
ADA8000
BCF2000
headphone amps

anything else and you are bound to upgrade (what IVE never owned a tube pre with leds behind it, yeah right) anyway ive bought and sold my way to the gear i would never part with. its better and cheaper to buy good stuff first even if its only one piece.

other issue is their obvious patent infringment issues and the lawsuits they have gone through. Ethical issues there to navigate.


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## fractile

spacedout trumped me, but I have a joke: B... is ok if it's not in the signal path
But seriously it's a mixed bag of variability, controversy and requirement
digital circuits are easy to approximately replicate, along with algorithms. I guess the cost goes up with quality analog I/O and reliable power supply, so they tend to cut corners.
Taking it beyond bare need for speed would require being knowledgeable like a wine connoisseur.


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## trifidmaster

I like to chime in.

Imagine you are running a project studio (or a big studio) and you have (paying) clients COMING IN as planned.

Question: do you buy a top preamp and relay on it, or is it better to have 2 not so top preamps (for a given budget)?
Well, if the client is in, and you have only one preamp, and it is top (very expensive) and it fails (this can happen), it is a disaster, isn't it?

But if you have a spare Behringer preamp, maybe the day is saved. 

I am not saying that now everybody has to run and buy a Behringer preamp.
I am trying to give a different light to this subject.

Note: I have chosen the preamp for the sake of this topic, but I could choose a compressor,....


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## tehguit

Bit late but Regarding the ADA8000: Even if the power supply is a problem any good tech should be able to build you a new one, or fix the current one for a relatively low cost as long as the transformer doesn't need replacing. It'd probably be about 10 bucks in parts and maybe a hundred bucks in labour tops to seriously fix the thing up?

Also you have to look at your clients are. If these are clients who are used to using good gear and are paying decent money, you should be using decent (relative to the money) gear on them, otherwise you are cheating them. If you're clients are paying enough to justify getting better gear, don't even think about it, you owe it to them.
IMHO of course.


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## acegunn

The Powerplay PRO-XL headphone amp has been a good Behringer product for me. It's not a part of the recording or monitor chain, so the sound quality is not critical. It's got plenty of power for headphones.


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## acegunn

Oh, and the first band I was in, we had a 32 channel mixer that was pretty cool, but I think it was the pre Mackie lawsuit version, so their design may have changed after that.


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## Shoog

My experience has generally been good except for one big exception. I have 3 DEQ2496 Ultracurve but probably have had maybe 10 through my hands. Ver1 was totally unreliable, Ver2 are rock solid and a great bit of kit. Must say the Behringer service department were incredibly helpful over several years and just kept sending me replacement units FOC independent of where they were strictly speaking out or warranty or not. Have had on DOA crossover and have had to fix a couple of problems myself (analogue component failures) but the pricing allows me to play with things otherwise probably would not. On the one occasion I decided to spend a little more and bought a DBX Drive Rack PA, guess what DOA, half the display was blank and took several weeks to get a replacement. Its Auto EQ function did not seem as good as the DEQ2496 but XO and EQ in the same 1U space it V nice. Have recently bought a DCX2496 and whilst have not spent enough time with it yet, feel it could do with more memory if you really want to do a lot of processing


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## Equilibrium8

Shoog said:


> My experience has generally been good except for one big exception. I have 3 DEQ2496 Ultracurve but probably have had maybe 10 through my hands. Ver1 was totally unreliable, Ver2 are rock solid and a great bit of kit. Must say the Behringer service department were incredibly helpful over several years and just kept sending me replacement units FOC independent of where they were strictly speaking out or warranty or not. Have had on DOA crossover and have had to fix a couple of problems myself (analogue component failures) but the pricing allows me to play with things otherwise probably would not. On the one occasion I decided to spend a little more and bought a DBX Drive Rack PA, guess what DOA, half the display was blank and took several weeks to get a replacement. Its Auto EQ function did not seem as good as the DEQ2496 but XO and EQ in the same 1U space it V nice. Have recently bought a DCX2496 and whilst have not spent enough time with it yet, feel it could do with more memory if you really want to do a lot of processing


Thats interesting. I have often considered replacing my Ultra-curve (8024, without the extras on the 2496) with a drive rack, but don't need the extra features. How would you compare them sound wise?


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## marco_ktl

Actually I never had any problems with Behringer products, until I was moving them from home! Something was happening to them... looked like they couldn't stand the trip out of my house...
Of course I think it's not top quality products, but they are worth all the money you payed for. For starters, it's a good buy. Some of their products are actually good: monitors, can amps, MIDI gear.
And I would like to hear their new monitors: TRUTH B1031A. I have the feeling they are "inspired by" KRK monitors


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## Equilibrium8

> Actually I never had any problems with Behringer products, until I was moving them from home! Something was happening to them... looked like they couldn't stand the trip out of my house...


Some of my Behringger stuff was in my live rig, and I never had problems. Only 2 things that went wrong was the control room pot on Eurorack going past zero and back to an "on" state, but pots aren't perfect. And the battery clip in my UltraCurve breaking...but that was more my fault (and a bit of a stupid designs').


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## Hydrazine

I've had mixed results with Behringer but _overall _I say its a good value.

I had one of their compressor/limiters blink out... But then again, I had a QSC amp blink out too.

I have a Behringer DCX and its definetly a noisy unit... but then again, it cost 1/2 that of a similar unit from another company.

I have several of the Behringer power amps (the 2400) and I can't really complain about them at all. They perform quite well... and I only paid $260 each. That's dirt cheap. $260 is nothing for that much power.

A competing amp will cost 3-4x as much. If the Behringer breaks, its easy enough to replace at such a low price.

Many retailer are very willing to *W *hore out Behringer products for next to nothing on mark up.

For my situation... A personal (high power) backyard theater system... Its a steal. 

I would buy more again.


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## jonathanm

It's like any other tool....if you're using it every day for critical tasks, or your livelihood depends on the results you get from it, buy the best...anything else is false economy. If you only need it every now and again, or it's not critical, or you're lending it or renting it, etc etc, then a Behringer might be just the ticket.


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## mikev

I just got back into the sound business. I inherited three eq’s (FBQ3102) and a powered mixer (PMP5000) by Behringer. For live gigs and local bands it seems to work well. We have moved on to using crown amps and only use the powered mixer for small gigs. The mixer has a lot of features for the bucks and keeps on kicking even after a year of weekends on the road.

Broke a slider off the other day on one of the eq’s, cheap plastic knobs. Seems like most cheap amps are china made with ISO standards. It was sad to find out that this is what Crown is doing now. I don’t do studio work and so far the gear I have has worked well for me. Not everyone can afford the “best of the best” and companies will sell this stuff by the thousands instead of selling high end to a few audiophiles. The Behringer name is everywhere I look. It’s like the Walmart of sound equipment today. You do get what you pay for. I would use something else if I had the client$ or the money.


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## Darnstrat

tonyvdb said:


> My personal take is that Behringer sells to the mass market. They dont sell to the pros. They sell to the new comer who has no clue about quality and durability but once they have bought and used Behringer gear for a while and realize the difference they wont buy again and will spend a few $$ more the next time for higher quality amps, processors and mixing consoles.
> 
> Whats your take?


I've used a Behringer MX3242X mixer as the front end for my Pro Tools (002R) for years now with only one minor problem (ch. 5 mic preamp died - now using a Blue Tube into the line input on 5). The pre's are very clean. It has 6 aux sends for headphone mixes (using a Behringer headphone amp - it's awesome for the $$). It also has the most flexible routing of any mixer ever, plus direct outs on every input. You'd have to pay 10X the money to get the same features anywhere else. At that price point, I can afford to have a couple of extra mixers as backup.
I also have a 4 ch. Behringer compressor that I use lightly. However, I did draw the line at their copy of the Swizz Army Knife... overall, if you're using decent mics, the Behringer stuff works pretty well. I have other pre's and comp's I use too that are much more $$, but the B-stuff works well in context. 
I would put the recordings I've made with the Behringer up against near anything.

That being said, yes, they had some real issues with consistency when they first moved ops to China, but I think they're doing better now.

Just a couple of samples:
http://www.myspace.com/cubamusic (produced/recorded everything on there except Train Wreck, which was done at Sony Tree studios in Nashville)
http://www.myspace.com/christinablust (produced/recorded everything on there except Pictures)



Read more: Behringer products, are they good VFM and morso quality? - Page 3 - Pro Audio Forums - ProAudioShack.com


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## Syd26147

My experience is that their products are weak on implementation and QC detail.
For instance an active crossover purchased in 2006 started developing mechanical switch problems, after a 18 months of light use.
Electrically it still functions , but the mechanical devices are cheap.
It requires frequency cleaning of the switches to work correctly.
Switches/sliders and potentiometers seem to be a common source of failure.

Syd


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## Steve Adleman

I have their cord testing box, for $35 it's worth it's weight in gold.
I think their stuff is a great value for the money, but if I saw a bunch of their gear in a pro studio, I'd be suspect.


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## WmAx

Just like many others have said, I can only repeat: each product needs to be chosen on it's own accord. Some of their items have no competition anywhere around their price, and these specific products have very high parts quality and excellent design/engineering. Some products are average. Some products are junk.

The DCX2496 is a very good product with very high build/parts quality and superb performance, and it's about 1/2 the price of the closest competitor's comparable product.

The CX3400 and CX2310 use parts of quality simply not found in competitor products until you get to 3x the price range, for example. Design is very good and performance very good; unexpected for sure given the price.

The B-5 microphone; an extraordinarily linear mic(with either the omni or cardoid element) with very good build quality, superb noise performance and excellent dynamic range. I don't know of a truly comparable performance mic that is comparable in all the ways specified above, until you get to 6-8x the price range. _Yes, I am aware of the Studio Projects product that is probably closest on 'paper' and price/value. The Studio Projects has inferior build quality and inferior response characteristics by a substantial degree; I analyzed/measured this product since it seemed to close on 'paper'._

The B2030P and B2031P passive 2 way speakers. These have build quality/parts and measured performance combination not found in competitors until you start around 4x the price at minimum.

The above specified products are some of their best product deals/values. There are more high value products, but I am only specifying a handful for example only.


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## SiriusBlack

I own several Behringer bits and pieces (Xenyx mixer, bcf200 midi controller, bass v-amp pro, etc) and for the price I think they make some very good stuff, but I also understand why Behringer is not everyone's cup of tea.


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