# Step up from Def Tech Pro Cinema...



## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Hi all - just upgraded receiver and plasma and now thinking of upgrading my DT Pro 1000/800 Cinema fronts, center, and surrounds - what would be good to replace with for movies, etc - dont really have an endless budget but also want to replace with something decent - I heard the Polks are good?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have.


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Forum. Have fun. Dennis


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Another question - can I replace all 3 fronts (Pro Cinema 800's and 1000 Center) with a larger more powerful DT CLR?

If so would it sound better and which model?

thanks


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

How big is your room and what type of budget do you have? Those are two key pieces of information when sizing HT equipment. Also, are you looking for bookshelf speakers again, or were you thinking towers this time?


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

theJman said:


> How big is your room and what type of budget do you have? Those are two key pieces of information when sizing HT equipment. Also, are you looking for bookshelf speakers again, or were you thinking towers this time?


I am afraid I just dont have the space for towers so it will have to be wall mounted ones - 

budget isnt that much of an issue - room size is approx 20x30

my main question is can I upgrade each speaker at a time if I stick with def tech?


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Your projected budget is actually a huge consideration. Without any type of parameters you could get suggestions ranging from $100 each to $10,000 each. In order for them to be relevant some type of number would be necessary. However, since you appear primarily interested in getting the upgrade question answered I'll focus strictly on that.

If you're referring to the front three channels you should always try to "voice match" them, meaning have speakers that are as close to identical as possible. Just getting them from the same manufacturer doesn't qualify I'm afraid. A company like DefTech has a wide variety to choose from, so you would need to stick to the same series in order to be completely certain they'll match each other. You don't have to be terribly concerned with the surrounds, because those aren't as critical, but the front three should be matched.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Ok thanks. 


Lets put the budget at $2000 for the front 3


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

theJman said:


> Your projected budget is actually a huge consideration. Without any type of parameters you could get suggestions ranging from $100 each to $10,000 each. In order for them to be relevant some type of number would be necessary. However, since you appear primarily interested in getting the upgrade question answered I'll focus strictly on that.
> 
> If you're referring to the front three channels you should always try to "voice match" them, meaning have speakers that are as close to identical as possible. Just getting them from the same manufacturer doesn't qualify I'm afraid. A company like DefTech has a wide variety to choose from, so you would need to stick to the same series in order to be completely certain they'll match each other. You don't have to be terribly concerned with the surrounds, because those aren't as critical, but the front three should be matched.


How about these:

Studio monitors 55 for front right/left
Cs 8060HD center 

I have an SVS PB 12 sub

Is the center overkill in this situation it will it enhance with more bass?


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Frankly, I don't understand what DefTech is doing placing a subwoofer in their center. It's difficult for me to see the value in that configuration. You already have a very capable sub in the PB12, so I'm not sure if adding another one to the center channel will be all that beneficial.

A 12x20 room is a somewhat formidable space for bookshelf speakers, so it's perhaps best to consider those that have good output potential. A few that spring to mind are...


Ascend Acoustics CMT-340, for all three channels

Source Technologies 1.6WC for the fronts and a CC-2 WC center

SVS Ultra Series, for all three channels

XTZ 99.25 for the fronts, along with the matching center.


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## Jules Winnfield (Jul 8, 2012)

fkjr2 said:


> How about these:
> 
> Studio monitors 55 for front right/left
> Cs 8060HD center
> ...


That proposed setup would certainly put a big smile on your face. A co-worker of mine recently purchased the SM 55's and can't stop raving about them. I steered him toward them after a demo at BB and they certainly were impressive. 

With your budget of 2k you could even take it one step up the DefTech food chain with: 

1 CS-8080
2 StudioMonitor 65's


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

theJman said:


> Frankly, I don't understand what DefTech is doing placing a subwoofer in their center. It's difficult for me to see the value in that configuration. You already have a very capable sub in the PB12, so I'm not sure if adding another one to the center channel will be all that beneficial.
> 
> A 12x20 room is a somewhat formidable space for bookshelf speakers, so it's perhaps best to consider those that have good output potential. A few that spring to mind are...
> 
> ...


I prefer to stay def tech.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

fkjr2 said:


> I prefer to stay def tech.


The new Definitive Studio Monitors are nice - and a big step-up from the ProCinemas.
If you have the placement options, you can use one of the Studio Monitors as a center.
They are sold by the each.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Jules Winnfield said:


> That proposed setup would certainly put a big smile on your face. A co-worker of mine recently purchased the SM 55's and can't stop raving about them. I steered him toward them after a demo at BB and they certainly were impressive.
> 
> With your budget of 2k you could even take it one step up the DefTech food chain with:
> 
> ...


Wouldn't the 8080 be too much bass since I have a sweet SVS PB 12 sub already?

Wouldn't it be better to put the funds towards the other fronts instead?

Unless I'm missing something and a center with a woofer is ideal even with a dedicated subwoofer ??

I think the 65's are too much for my space. I'd probably opt for the 55's or even the 45's? Not sure. 

In any event, I'm assuming that the Studio Monitor series trumps the Pro Cinema series? Am I correct ?

In the same respect, I'm assuming the CS8040 trumps the Pro Center 2000?

Trying to make a move. Thanks for the help!!


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## Jules Winnfield (Jul 8, 2012)

fkjr2 said:


> Wouldn't the 8080 be too much bass since I have a sweet SVS PB 12 sub already?
> 
> Wouldn't it be better to put the funds towards the other fronts instead?
> 
> ...


I overlooked the fact that you already were employing a sub that you're pleased with. You would probably be fine with the CS-8040 that you originally proposed as it employs a passive radiator in place of the powered 300w subwoofer. 

As far as the StudioMonitors's go, yes they are a step up from the ProCinema series as they employ bigger woofers, passive radiators & of course, enclosures. This results in a more robust, fuller sound with deeper bass. The decision between the StudioMonitor series vs the ProCinema series ultimately is one of space/size. For my current living room situation size was a consideration which is why I settled on the more compact ProCinema series.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Jules Winnfield said:


> I overlooked the fact that you already were employing a sub that you're pleased with. You would probably be fine with the CS-8040 that you originally proposed as it employs a passive radiator in place of the powered 300w subwoofer.
> 
> As far as the StudioMonitors's go, yes they are a step up from the ProCinema series as they employ bigger woofers, passive radiators & of course, enclosures. This results in a more robust, fuller sound with deeper bass. The decision between the StudioMonitor series vs the ProCinema series ultimately is one of space/size. For my current living room situation size was a consideration which is why I settled on the more compact ProCinema series.


on the other hand, is the Sub totally independent on only working with LFE scenes and NOT vocals/regular audio during movies? In this case gong with a powerful center life the 8060 with sub inside would yield better/clearer vocals/effects that dont incorporate LFE? Am I correct with this assumption?

In your opinion is the Center channel most important or the (2) front channels (left & right) ?
(for movies/HDTV)

Thanks


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## Jules Winnfield (Jul 8, 2012)

fkjr2 said:


> on the other hand, is the Sub totally independent on only working with LFE scenes and NOT vocals/regular audio during movies? In this case gong with a powerful center life the 8060 with sub inside would yield better/clearer vocals/effects that dont incorporate LFE? Am I correct with this assumption?
> 
> In your opinion is the Center channel most important or the (2) front channels (left & right) ?
> (for movies/HDTV)
> ...


The subwoofer is continuously active during movies. However, how much is dictated by the scene & the accompanying audio track. For instance a scene consisting of mostly dialogue is going to require a lot less bass that a scene depicting a car explosion. Even something as seemingly innocuous as ones voice contains bass notes, although some more than others (think James Earl Jones vs Sponge Bob). Whether or not it is worth purchasing a center channel with an active subwoofer (8060 or 8080) vs a passive radiator (8040) is purely subjective. I would suggest demoing the Def Tech center channels at your local Best Buy to be sure.

As far as importance the center channel is ALWAYS the most important component in a home theater as the vast majority of a movies audio track is played through it (as much as 75%). This is where you want to put the most $$ toward. After the center channel, the right/left front channels are next in importance. Lastly are the surround channel speakers as they only are used for ambient or background effects.

Hope this helps in making your decision.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Yes perfect thanks.


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## jevans64 (Dec 24, 2012)

There really isn't a real center channel match for the DefTech Studio Monitor 55. Closest thing is to hunt down an older CLR 2000. If you were to find the room for the SM65, then the 8080HD would be a good match for it. If you were to go with the CLR2000 as a center, then you can get a pair of SM450 for $280 at Newegg when they discount them, which seems like every few days. The imaging is a bit different on the SM450 vs. the SM55 and some people generally believe the SM55 is a better-sounding speaker, but ALL agree that it isn't worth double the cost over the previous-gen SM450.

I have a pair of SM55 but I am only using them as Front Height speakers with occasional 2-channel use when I don't want to use my main amplifier. I don't think they will be good enough to fill a 20' x 30' room.

My take on active subs in center channel speakers. I have a CLR 3000 with a 150 watt powered sub. I do not use this as a sub-woofer but as an extension of the center channel. It basically turns the 2-way into a 3-way center without having to have tons of amplification to drive it. My center has a gain knob in the back to adjust the active sub-woofer. It definitely makes a difference in overall dynamics of whatever comes out of the center channel. I have tested this out by unplugging the power for the sub-woofer. Not so much with voices unless it is digitally altered to be lower or more resonate, like Darth Vader or Bane in The Dark Knight Rises, but it makes a difference with anything else that goes on in the center. To me, it seems to even out everything in the front since I have BP7000SC for left and right.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Glad you could join us, jevans64! Great first post, thanks for helping out.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

jevans64 said:


> There really isn't a real center channel match for the DefTech Studio Monitor 55. Closest thing is to hunt down an older CLR 2000. If you were to find the room for the SM65, then the 8080HD would be a good match for it. If you were to go with the CLR2000 as a center, then you can get a pair of SM450 for $280 at Newegg when they discount them, which seems like every few days. The imaging is a bit different on the SM450 vs. the SM55 and some people generally believe the SM55 is a better-sounding speaker, but ALL agree that it isn't worth double the cost over the previous-gen SM450.
> 
> I have a pair of SM55 but I am only using them as Front Height speakers with occasional 2-channel use when I don't want to use my main amplifier. I don't think they will be good enough to fill a 20' x 30' room.
> 
> My take on active subs in center channel speakers. I have a CLR 3000 with a 150 watt powered sub. I do not use this as a sub-woofer but as an extension of the center channel. It basically turns the 2-way into a 3-way center without having to have tons of amplification to drive it. My center has a gain knob in the back to adjust the active sub-woofer. It definitely makes a difference in overall dynamics of whatever comes out of the center channel. I have tested this out by unplugging the power for the sub-woofer. Not so much with voices unless it is digitally altered to be lower or more resonate, like Darth Vader or Bane in The Dark Knight Rises, but it makes a difference with anything else that goes on in the center. To me, it seems to even out everything in the front since I have BP7000SC for left and right.


Thanks!

Would the 450's mate well with my Pro Center 2000 I already own? Or do I change that to a CS8040 or 8060?


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

fkjr2 said:


> Would the 450's mate well with my Pro Center 2000 I already own? Or do I change that to a CS8040 or 8060?


The ProCenter 2000 can work with the 450 - however if one had the funds
and could swing it - I would mate the 450 with the C/L/R 2002 speaker.
http://www.definitivetech.com/products/c-l-r2002

http://www.amazon.com/Definitive-Technology-Speaker-Single-Black/dp/B000TD8XCU


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

K 

But isn't the 2002 an older model?
Isn't the 8040 newer technology?

I only ask because I wouldn't want to upgrade with older tech.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

fkjr2 said:


> But isn't the 2002 an older model?
> Isn't the 8040 newer technology?
> 
> I only ask because I wouldn't want to upgrade with older tech.


You seem to be going around in a circle - I was answering about the SM-450
The SM-450 is from the older series, and I would mate it with the CLR 2002.

If you buy the newer series like the SM55 - then I would mate the 8040 with
it - or if space permitted, then use another SM55 or the SM45 as a center. >
However, you can still use your ProCenter 2000.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

thanks for all the help!

a recap please - so would the setup look like these scenarios: ?

Scenario 1
Older Studio 450's or 350's (Left & Right)
Older CLR 2002

or
Scenario 2
Newer Studio 55's or 65's (Left & Right)
Newer 8040HD or 8060HD

...few questions of course - how much better will the first and second scenario above sound compared to me current *Pro Series 1000 fronts and Pro Center 2000?*

If monies weren't an object which scenario to pick?

Also - is the 8060HD loads better sound over the 8040HD?

I want to do this once!


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## madmachinest (Aug 11, 2012)

I listened to the SM55’s this summer when I was going thru my upgrade cycle. They really were impressive. I had the SM1000 for front, rear and C1000 center but was never happy with the center and that started my search.

I ended up finding a pr of BP2002’s that were in great condition and with plenty of room for towers I went with them for fronts. For the center I ended up using a pr of the SM350’s. They really sound great.

So I will offer you a 3rd option of purchasing 2 pr of either the SM350’s or the MS450’s and using them for front and center. Can not get a better match than the same speakers for the entire front stage. This also comes in at less than ½ your budget and leaves plenty left over for other possible upgrades.

I believe you will be very pleased with either of the 2 options you have or the one I suggest but I think if you look at value for your hard earned dollars this 3rd option is very hard to beat.

Looking foreword to hearing what you decide and how much you enjoy it. Love those DEFINITIVE TECHNOLOGY speakers, I sure do


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

madmachinest said:


> I listened to the SM55’s this summer when I was going thru my upgrade cycle. They really were impressive. I had the SM1000 for front, rear and C1000 center but was never happy with the center and that started my search.
> 
> I ended up finding a pr of BP2002’s that were in great condition and with plenty of room for towers I went with them for fronts. For the center I ended up using a pr of the SM350’s. They really sound great.
> 
> ...


thanks for the idea - it seems a bit unconventional  but worthy!

I guess I am more inclined to get the CS8060HD for now and see how it "fits" with my current Pro Left and Right 1000's in terms of audio flow.


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## jevans64 (Dec 24, 2012)

fkjr2 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Would the 450's mate well with my Pro Center 2000 I already own? Or do I change that to a CS8040 or 8060?


No harm in trying the ProCenter 2000 with SM450 if you already have it. Worst that can happen is that it won't compete with the SM450, then you can go with something more powerful, like the older CLR 2000. The CLR 2000 uses roughly the same type of driver as the SM450. Might even be the same Vifa drivers.

The SM65 / 8080 combo would work nicely too but you are looking at nearly $2000. If that DefTech 8060 package is still available for $2000, then I'd be more inclined to just go with that.


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## Jules Winnfield (Jul 8, 2012)

THE best resource for all things Definitive Technology is to contact Def Tech directly via email. They are fantastic about replying promptly and guiding consumers towards the best equipment for their needs. I myself have contacted them with a question about the best combination of speakers for my needs and was answered within less than 24 hours by Chet Pelkowski, who now is President of Definitive Technology.

Having read many threads here on this forum, there are many other members that can attest to the helpfulness provided by Mr. Pelkowski and the rest of the Def Tech team. I urge you to contact them at [email protected] and get all of your questions answered before you shell out your hard-earned $$$. Good luck.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

thanks I just emailed Chet - 

what about the SM45's (new model) compared with the current 1000 pro fronts I have?
is this a decent upgrade?

I see that newegg is having a deal for the *older* SM450's but they seem "clunky" and bulky and of course the older technology so I am apprehensive to buy that deal - the new 45's are a little more but if its a good upgrade than I dont mind

I guess I just dont want to go backwards in terms of size/quality than what I currently have (1000's) but also dont want to "overpower" my 20x30 room

any input? thanks


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## Jules Winnfield (Jul 8, 2012)

fkjr2 said:


> thanks I just emailed Chet -
> 
> what about the SM45's (new model) compared with the current 1000 pro fronts I have?
> is this a decent upgrade?
> ...


I demoed the SM45's at BB while helping a buddy search for a speaker upgrade. They sounded very impressive to me and at their price point of $199 each I thought they provided the best bang for your buck when compared to the SM55's (which are also tremendous...and $299) and the ProMonitor 1000 ($219...four of which I own). I chose the PM1000's because of the compactness they provide, as space was a big consideration for me. But due to their larger enclosures, I would give the edge in sound to the SM45's. They seemed fuller-sounding to me.

I have never personally demoed the SM450's myself but have read owner reviews and they seem well-liked. However, they do seem a little ungainly looking to me when compared to the SM45's and indeed have larger dimensions than the SM45's. I'm a bit like you it seems when it comes to purchasing newer technology over old, although I know that "newness" doesn't always tell the whole story when it comes to the world of electronics. My best advice to you would be to wait for a reply from DefTech, and of course, if at all possible, take a trip to the nearest BB as nothing is quite like a in-person demo.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

fkjr2 said:


> thanks I just emailed Chet -
> what about the SM45's (new model) compared with the current 1000 pro fronts I have?
> is this a decent upgrade?
> I see that newegg is having a deal for the *older* SM450's but they seem "clunky" and bulky and of course the older technology so I am apprehensive to buy that deal - the new 45's are a little more but if its a good upgrade than I dont mind
> I guess I just dont want to go backwards in terms of size/quality than what I currently have (1000's) but also dont want to "overpower" my 20x30 room


You will not overpower your room. The new Studio Monitors are a clear step-up
for me, over the older Studio Monitors. They are more refined and smooth with 
good detail and definition, and better bass handling. >> Their imaging and the 
soundstage is really nice. I would also prefer the older Studio Monitors over the 
ProCinema 1000. The choice/option is yours - however, I do not see the need for
a center channel with a built in powered subwoofer.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

zieglj01 said:


> You will not overpower your room. The new Studio Monitors are a clear step-up
> for me, over the older Studio Monitors. They are more refined and smooth with
> good detail and definition, and better bass handling. >> Their imaging and the
> soundstage is really nice. I would also prefer the older Studio Monitors over the
> ...



I own an SVS sub pb12

Why wouldn't you recommend a center with the sm45's ?


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## Jules Winnfield (Jul 8, 2012)

fkjr2 said:


> I own an SVS sub pb12
> 
> Why wouldn't you recommend a center with the sm45's ?


I believe zieglj01 is referring to the CS-8060HD & CS-8080HD center channels, both of which have built-in powered subwoofers.


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## fkjr2 (Dec 22, 2012)

Jules Winnfield said:


> I believe zieglj01 is referring to the CS-8060HD & CS-8080HD center channels, both of which have built-in powered subwoofers.


Oh got it

Yes I'm thinking about the 8040hd without the sub. Makes more sense since I have a great subwoofer already.


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