# Non-dedicated family room layout?



## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Hi everyone,

The builder of our new home will run wires for 5.1 surround sound speakers in our main family room (schematic attached). This space will be part of an open floor plan that is open to an adjacent kitchen, breakfast area, and sunroom.

Question: While the family room will be the main area for watching TV, we also plan to stream music through the speakers when not watching TV. I assume these will all be in-ceiling, but how should I position them in this space? Around only the family room area, or expand larger to include those who might be watching from outside that space? I don't know how it will sound if listening from outside that area. 

Thanks!


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Just a couple thoughts... if it were me, and if all of your speakers will be in the ceiling, I'd first see if I could have it wired for 7.1 for the main family room. Something like the plan below, depending on your planned seating layout, with the dark green for side surrounds, and the light green for back surrounds.

Then I'd get a different set wired to the rest of the open area, where I have placed the orange speakers, and use them as the "B" speakers, or "zone 2" speakers which most receivers have. This would be better for a few reasons... 

1) They would be a dedicated stereo pair of main speakers, and not just getting the surround effects from your main area, which wouldn't be great for listening out there.
2) You would have better flexibility... you can either have them "off" if you're only in the main room, "on" by themselves, with the main system turned off if you just want music in those areas, or "on" in concert with the main setup for better filling ambient music (parties, entertaining, etc.) 
3) This also focuses the main listening setup on the proper seating area and it will sound much better for movies, etc. when you need it to.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

+1 - if you can swing it, Owen's suggested system I believe more fully meets your needs and provides a more enveloping HT experience.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Most of what you hear outside the area will be reflected sound with most likely attenuated treble. There are some in-ceiling speakers that have aimable tweeters. That would help focus the sound on certain seating positions, but may reduce treble response away from those areas. 

Have you thought about a ceiling mounted subwoofer? A sub made for wall mounting should work in the ceiling as well.


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks for the great insight. I forgot to note that our house will actually have a dedicated home theater room in a different location, so this open space will ideally be the minivan parked next to my Ferrari. I also had a few additional questions.

1. Given the minivan/Ferrari thing, how can I spend my $ carefully here to make it sufficient, not optimal, since most of the time it will be playing regular TV, music, or kids DVDs. 
2. Are the zone B outputs from the receiver normally just L/R RCA cables? If these speakers are on, how will they impact the sound in the main listening area for movies, etc?
3. Are ceiling locations for the front L/R going to be okay, or do I really need to find a lower level location for them?
4. I hadn’t really given much thought to the sub location. I assumed I’d just put it under the TV, though ceiling is interesting. I wonder how it will look with the other circular speakers and recessed lights? Also not sure if there is room in the ceiling since there will be a floor above.
5. If I’m streaming Pandora, how will music sound coming from the side/rear surround speakers? Does this mean I need to look for more "all-purpose" sides/rears?

Thank you!


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

2. That is usually the case.
3. In wall for L/R instead of the ceiling will provide more direct sound and would most likely sound better.
4. Corner location in the ceiling will give the most sub output, but under the TV is fine as long as you use a crossover setting of 100-80 Hz or so. Above that the sub will be sound localized; there or below, most folks won't be able to tell where the sub is. That said, there are some folks who can locate a sub with a crossover setting of 60Hz or so.
5. Some receivers have all channel stereo, so the sides and backs will get the same as the fronts. However, if the receiver is set to Pro Logic or Dolby Digital the sides and rears will get surround only.


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Thanks! 

2. Would the zone 2 stereos spill back into the main listening area so much and impact quality?
3. Would front L/R in the ceiling be adequate, or would you say that putting them lower is worth spending some effort to overcome the wife approval factor? (suggesting putting anything on the wall other than pictures will definitely raise at least one eyebrow).
5. Is it common to find receivers that will automatically switch to all channel stereo if you are streaming music? I don't want to dive into the receiver settings everytime I turn on Pandora.

Ryan


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

I don't think I'm going to be able to swing a 7.1 system in this family room area. However, I might be able to get them to run RCA for a zone 2. Given this, here is the speaker layout I am thinking of. I'm sure in-ceiling for the fronts is not optimal, but neither is this space. I'm just trying to make the best of it, and -- as you can tell from the diagram -- maintain some symmetry for aesthetics given how the recessed lights are going to be positioned.

I've also added overall dimensions of this area if that changes the strategy here.

Thanks for any comments or concerns with this approach!


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Astro, that should still work out just fine. Your TV area will be well covered... do you plan to install a CC for this setup? It would be a big step up in my opinion, even in the ceiling, but that's my only concern. Try to go for ceiling speakers with adjustable pivoting tweeters for the front stage if possible. 

The zone 2 depends on the electronics you'll be using. The basic setup would be using "channel B" speaker level outputs from a receiver, which receive the same signal as your main L/R speakers - essentially an extra stereo pair for the other room, playing the same source material as the main system. You could get sneaky, and leave only the TV audio on for the main room, and turning off the "channel A" speakers, using only "channel B" for music or something else in the kitchen. That would let the kids or someone watch TV while still giving music to the other rooms.

The more complex setup would involve a receiver that can send a second source to a second zone simultaneously. With that setup you may need another 2-ch amp to power the zone 2 speakers or you may not. Check with your receiver manual to see what yours is capable of.


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

I'm quite the newbie... What is CC?


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

CC is center channel. 
The pair of speakers for the 2nd zone outside the surround sound would not need RCA, just speaker wire. 
Some receivers can easily be set up to default to all channel stereo anytime a 2 channel source is played.


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Using regular speak wires for zone 2 is what I assumed I would use. However, it looked like most receivers' zone 2 output was RCA. Am I missing something?


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

It may be that some receivers send an unpowered line level signal that you can plug into an amplifier in the other room. I think ideally you would want the speaker level connection so you don't have to add equipment. For example my old Denon has a second set of L/R speaker binding posts labeled "B" that I use to run speaker wire into the wall, down into the basement, across the joists, and pop back up in the dining room to a 2nd set of speakers. Using the "A" and "B" buttons on the front of the receiver I an either have them on or off, but they will only play the same source material as the main system. So if I'm watching a movie in the main area, I can't send music to the dining room from say, an FM radio station, just the front L/R from the movie.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Some receivers give you the option of 7.1 theater and RCA to zone 2 amp, or 5.1 theater and zone 2 powered from theater receiver.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

phreak said:


> Some receivers give you the option of 7.1 theater and RCA to zone 2 amp, or 5.1 theater and zone 2 powered from theater receiver.


For an example of this type of receiver, check out the Onkyo 809. I personally am using the first configuration that Phreak mentioned, but the second configuration would work well in your application.


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

phreak said:


> Some receivers give you the option of 7.1 theater and RCA to zone 2 amp, or 5.1 theater and zone 2 powered from theater receiver.


It sounds like I will need the second one. Thanks everyone.


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## astro2001 (Sep 9, 2012)

Sorry to bring back this thread, but just learned that I may have to put the Center Channel in the ceiling (see diagram above). The ceiling would be 11' throughout the family room. 

How badly will ceiling placement (especially 11' high) affect the quality of the center speaker?


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

11' high might sound a bit odd, especially if your main L/R speakers are quite far away vertically. Ultimately, sometimes you just have to make compromises in the end, so you just do the best you can. I think if I had that constraint, and couldn't mount the centre speaker in (or on) the wall either directly above or below the screen I would consider putting all front 3 speakers in the ceiling for uniformity. And make sure to get speakers with adjustable tweeters that you can point at the seating area, or some of those angled in-ceiling speakers that aim the whole speaker.


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