# Best equalization device out now?



## spaceape

Hi everyone. :wave: Im searching for some good equalization too enhance the quality of my current Audessey Pro. Kit. I've been looking at the miniDSP but i've noticed there's a lot of such devices. So now im a bit confused, looking for help finding something really good. 

My speakers are the B&W CM series (CMC2, 2x CM9, 2x CM5) . The subwoofers are two SVS SB12-NSD and three Clark TST209 Transducers with an Dayton SA240-B 240W amp. My AVR is a Denon AVR-4311 with audessey pro. My Bluray player is the Denon DBP-4010UD.


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## hjones4841

What problems are you trying to address? Audyssey Pro + XT32 does a fine job.


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## spaceape

hjones4841 said:


> What problems are you trying to address? Audyssey Pro + XT32 does a fine job.


Hi hjones buddy.  Well i do have some acoustic treatment but my room is rather small. So i properly still need some correction in the lower frequencies.

Im not hearing any really terrible acoustics right now but i just want something that gives me a better understandment of what's going on and also better tweakability. Audyssey (even the pro version) is rather limited in that department. 

My room:



















My last Audessey curves:










My gallery on bluray.com. --> >Link<


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## tonyvdb

Are you looking to EQ full range or just the subs?


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## hjones4841

If just the subs, the BFD will to a good job for you. Just go "easy" on boosts or you will run out of amp in a hurry. Bass trapping will help LF frequency response as well as "speed" or transient response of the way the sub sounds in the room.


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## tonyvdb

AGreed^^ but if doing ful range a Yamaha YDP2006 is the very best digital eq around. You can find them used for around $150 on eBay, dont buy the one listed for $500. Ive seen him list that one for over a year now and he wont take anything less than $400 for it and thats crazy as I bought mine for $120+shipping and got a second one for free.


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## spaceape

tonyvdb said:


> Are you looking to EQ full range or just the subs?


I think i will start out with the bass region but i might get hooked and go higher up in freq. if it doesn't mess up Audessey too much. Hehe. :doh:


hjones4841 said:


> If just the subs, the BFD will to a good job for you. Just go "easy" on boosts or you will run out of amp in a hurry. Bass trapping will help LF frequency response as well as "speed" or transient response of the way the sub sounds in the room.


Thank you for pointing me in the right direction hjones. I really appreciate it. :T

In my small room i have quite a lot of treatment. 10x 4" thick owens corning 705 type rockwool panels behind the front left, right, back wall and bottom corners. 8x 2" panels on the sides. A 12"x12" rockwool cube and Auralex Subdude HD under each of my subwoofers. Two 32"x24" 4" rockwool panels behind my center speaker and foam plugs in all of my speakers. I just ordered 2x 39"x39" 2.8" foam for the ceiling and will be getting a thick curtain for the windows.

The BFD? is there a particular of this or what is this? Sorry im a newbie at equalizing. :blush: 


tonyvdb said:


> AGreed^^ but if doing ful range a Yamaha YDP2006 is the very best digital eq around. You can find them used for around $150 on eBay, dont buy the one listed for $500. Ive seen him list that one for over a year now and he wont take anything less than $400 for it and thats crazy as I bought mine for $120+shipping and got a second one for free.


Yamaha YDP2006, Got ya. :T Im from denmark but i'll see what i can find or else i'll import it. 

Thanks for the pointers. :nerd:


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## Kal Rubinson

tonyvdb said:


> AGreed^^ but if doing ful range a Yamaha YDP2006 is the very best digital eq around. You can find them used for around $150 on eBay, dont buy the one listed for $500. Ive seen him list that one for over a year now and he wont take anything less than $400 for it and thats crazy as I bought mine for $120+shipping and got a second one for free.


This kills it for me: "20-bit A/D and D/A convertors sampling at 44.1 kHz" as it inserts additional conversions in the signal path and at lower resolution than most of my recordings.


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## spaceape

Kal Rubinson said:


> This kills it for me: "20-bit A/D and D/A convertors sampling at 44.1 kHz" as it inserts additional conversions in the signal path and at lower resolution than most of my recordings.


:scratch: :heehee:


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## hjones4841

BFD is short for the Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It is really made for pro sound applications to null out frequency peaks that cause feedback (the ear splitting squeal) from the speakers to mics. But, it is a very flexible equalizer that works well for subs. You can select which frequencies to boost or cut as well as how wide a band of frequencies each filter affects ("Q"). DSP1124P was the model number that was very popular. I know that model numbers changed not long ago, so maybe someone can fill in the new number for us.

Check out the REW forum here. It is a _free _analysis tool that you run on a laptop. With a calibrated mic and an inexpensive mic preamp/mixer (the mic requires 48V that the mixer provides) you can be up and running with a very nice anlaysis tool for about $150-175.


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## Kal Rubinson

Kal Rubinson said:


> This kills it for me: "20-bit A/D and D/A convertors sampling at 44.1 kHz" as it inserts additional conversions in the signal path and at lower resolution than most of my recordings.





spaceape said:


> :scratch: :heehee:


Well, playing Hi-Rez digital recordings, you will then subject them to a 20/44.1 A/D in order get the signals into this EQ and, then, they are subjected to a 20/44.1 D/A to get them out. Imposing a redundant A/D/A is one thing but doing it at lowish resolution is another. May be a nice EQ but it is from another century.


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## spaceape

I found some Behringers in Germany. Any good? --> >Link<

How does the "Ultradrive" and "Ultracurve" models differ from the "Feedback Destroyer"? It is the "Behringer FBQ2496 Feedback Destroyer Pro" i need right?

I also found some used Yamaha YDP2006 at a Danish website although a bit pricey at 329$ but the best i could find.


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## spaceape

Kal Rubinson said:


> Well, playing Hi-Rez digital recordings, you will then subject them to a 20/44.1 A/D in order get the signals into this EQ and, then, they are subjected to a 20/44.1 D/A to get them out. Imposing a redundant A/D/A is one thing but doing it at lowish resolution is another. May be a nice EQ but it is from another century.


Alright maybe it's best too stick too only Subwoofer equalizing then?


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## tonyvdb

Kal Rubinson said:


> Well, playing Hi-Rez digital recordings, you will then subject them to a 20/44.1 A/D in order get the signals into this EQ and, then, they are subjected to a 20/44.1 D/A to get them out. Imposing a redundant A/D/A is one thing but doing it at lowish resolution is another. May be a nice EQ but it is from another century.


Do you honestly think that the difference is audible? There are still many of these in use today. They sold for $2000 new in the early 90s


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## spaceape

I've read that the older version Behringer feedback Destroyer Pro 1124p has more consistent controls and is more adjustable opposed too the 2496?

I found some model 1124p's on ebay and may pull the trigger if nobody knows better.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/5980508-post122.html


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Kal Rubinson said:


> May be a nice EQ but it is from another century.


Trust me Kal, it’s the quietest and cleanest EQ I’ve ever used. Totally blew away the best analog models I’d used in the past. Tony and I both swapped out our AudioContol C-131’s after spending ten minutes with the Yamaha.

YDP2006 brief evaluation

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Kal Rubinson

tonyvdb said:


> Do you honestly think that the difference is audible? There are still many of these in use today. They sold for $2000 new in the early 90s


Well, I cannot say for certain since I have never heard or seen one but, judging from the vintage, I suspect so.


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## tonyvdb

All I can say is that it dramatically improved the sound of my mains after I used REW and adjusted the frequencies on the Yamaha that needed tweaking. You might be pleasantly surprised Kal. it was better than the Audio control C131 EQS that I previously used for the job as Wayne pointed out. I also bought the YDP's sister the YDG2030 because I liked it so much. I dont think you can find a better EQ out there for anywhere near the price.


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## Kal Rubinson

tonyvdb said:


> All I can say is that it dramatically improved the sound of my mains after I used REW and adjusted the frequencies on the Yamaha that needed tweaking. You might be pleasantly surprised Kal. it was better than the Audio control C131 EQS that I previously used for the job as Wayne pointed out. I also bought the YDP's sister the YDG2030 because I liked it so much. I dont think you can find a better EQ out there for anywhere near the price.


I was not commenting on its efficacy as an EQ because I believe that room correction is much more important and noticeable than differences in resolution (above 16/44.1) or, even, competent but redundant A/D/A. What I was saying is that I would expect that the insertion of this unit, with it set completely flat, would be noticeable. I have experience with several modern, sophisticated digital units and the ones that use analog in/outs are detectable, if only barely. Of course, they all cost much much more than this Yamaha goes for. 

Also, that is why, at least, for two channel, I prefer one that is digital all the way including in/out, like the original Z-Systems RDP-1 that I reviewed a long time ago. Unfortunately, there is no standardized consumer digital connection scheme for multichannel.


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## spaceape

hjones4841 said:


> BFD is short for the Behringer Feedback Destroyer. It is really made for pro sound applications to null out frequency peaks that cause feedback (the ear splitting squeal) from the speakers to mics. But, it is a very flexible equalizer that works well for subs. You can select which frequencies to boost or cut as well as how wide a band of frequencies each filter affects ("Q"). DSP1124P was the model number that was very popular. I know that model numbers changed not long ago, so maybe someone can fill in the new number for us.
> 
> Check out the REW forum here. It is a _free _analysis tool that you run on a laptop. With a calibrated mic and an inexpensive mic preamp/mixer (the mic requires 48V that the mixer provides) you can be up and running with a very nice anlaysis tool for about $150-175.


Yes i figured out the short for it thanks. 

I might get the BFD. Im uncertain about the Yamaha though.

My main concern is the lower Bit/KHz as my AVR and bluray player both are 24bit/192KHz. For the Subwoofer i don't think this will matter but for the mains it might.


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## spaceape

Thank you guys for all of your inputs. :T

I should properly do some REW measurements first too be sure were on the graph i have the strongest peaks and nulls. Then afterworth decide if i need the subwoofer/bass or mains (mid/high freq.) correction.

Will the Yamaha be able too connect too more than just the two mains? I have 5.2 surround (5.5 if you count the transducers hehe :neener. I mainly watch bluray movies and don't listen too much 2 channel music.

All digital/hdmi, well except for the subwoofers. :nerd:


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## hjones4841

The 1124 is a very good device. If you can find one at a reasonable price then I suggest that you get one. Here in the US, they sold new for just over $100. Please refer to the REW forum here on HTS. There is a lot of good info on hooking up and using the 1124 and getting it to interface with REW. I think there is a comparison of it vs. the 2496 there.


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## tonyvdb

Kal Rubinson said:


> What I was saying is that I would expect that the insertion of this unit, with it set completely flat, would be noticeable.


I did a test when I got it I reset all the parameters to factory and ran it flat. I then pushed the bypass button on and off several times and there was absolutely no difference in sound, no level change or any other noise. They are the cleanest sounding EQs I have ever used and Ive used many in the studio that I volunteered in for many years (white audio, Ashley and Urie just to name a few).


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## Kal Rubinson

tonyvdb said:


> I did a test when I got it I reset all the parameters to factory and ran it flat. I then pushed the bypass button on and off several times and there was absolutely no difference in sound, no level change or any other noise. They are the cleanest sounding EQs I have ever used and Ive used many in the studio that I volunteered in for many years (white audio, Ashley and Urie just to name a few).


I cannot dispute your observations but I wonder if you tried a real physical bypass which takes the entire box out of the circuit. 

Complete transparency is rare and may not be the deciding factor.


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## spaceape

Would the more expensive Behringer DCX2496 and DEQ2496 give me better controls than the FBQ2496? Will i still be able too use REW with those and if not will that make my subs sound worse?

I have two small 12" sealed "SVS SB12-NSD" subs. They just barely reach 20hz at their lowest.


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## spaceape

Nevermind i just found out about the FBQ1000 which i guess is the revamped version of the DSP1124P. Im pretty sure this is the one i'll be getting.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Kal Rubinson said:


> I cannot dispute your observations but I wonder if you tried a real physical bypass which takes the entire box out of the circuit.


During the testing discussed in the link I provided in Post #16, I had both my speakers sitting right next to each other, one run through the Yamaha the other direct. Does that count? 

Don’t be fooled by the Yamaha’s supposedly “primitive” converters. The rest of the circuitry makes a difference, too, and Yamaha did their homework. This is why despite its modern 24-bit converters, the BFD is a noisy POJ, while the Yamaha actually outperforms its published specs.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Kal Rubinson

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> During the testing discussed in the link I provided in Post #16, I had both my speakers sitting right next to each other, one run through the Yamaha the other direct. Does that count?


Mebbe. Depends on other variables. Let's leave this since it is dragging the thread off-topic. Short of a cooperative test, I accept your observations but still remain skeptical I would be happy with it.



> Don’t be fooled by the Yamaha’s supposedly “primitive” converters. The rest of the circuitry makes a difference, too, and Yamaha did their homework. This is why despite its modern 24-bit converters, the BFD is a noisy POJ, while the Yamaha actually outperforms its published specs.


Well, I agree with you about the BFD.


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## spaceape

What is your opinions on TASCAM vs. M Audio vs. E-MU external soundcards?

I just ordered the TASCAM 122 MKII but maybe that were a mistake?

I also ordered a Dayton EMM-6 from cross-spectrum.com. Original it were a behringer ecm8000 premium plus but changed it when i heard about it being a bit inconsistent quality wise. Hopefully i did the right thing there also.

Behringer FBQ1000 (DSP1124) ordered also. Pretty sure that's a good one. 

Two Clicktronic Casual Subwoofer splitcables, a M-Audio USB Midisport Uno, two stereo jack male / RCA Phono female (for the subwoofer too Behringer) and two stereo jack male / 2 x RCA phono female (for AVR preout and too the behringer). I have two subwoofers.

I believe i've picked some pretty well suited equipment for a guy just starting out using REW.

I hope. :gulp:


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## Phillips

Kal is there any time on the review of the Antimode Dual Core EQ?


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## Kal Rubinson

Phillips said:


> Kal is there any time on the review of the Antimode Dual Core EQ?


Working on it now.


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