# Audio Diffusers



## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

May be not perfect, but I like what I did in my room 

























What do you think?


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

olga66 said:


> May be not perfect, but I like what I did in my room
> 
> olga66.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/audio-diffusers-11.jpg
> 
> ...




Are you aware that no one can see the picts and that simply listing jpeg file names is not exactly a link...?
I might also suggest always verifying a link that you post...


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

Welcome aboard olga66.

If you click on the "Go Advanced" button you can download your images.

I look forward to seeing them.

Cheers,
Bill.


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

robbo266317 said:


> Welcome aboard olga66.
> 
> If you click on the "Go Advanced" button you can download your images.
> 
> ...


I'm so sorry - can you navigate me to "Go Advanced" button?


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

Check the attached for both the basic editing window and the 'advanced' (full) editing window.


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thk U - will try


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I can see them now - very unique! :T Have you been able to do any measurements to determine their effectiveness?


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

It will be next task :hsd:

Actuality it began as an art, then it was found this interesting practical application


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

Can you give me any idea for measurements to determine their effectiveness? Just collect data (reflection, absorption etc.) before and after or ?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Unfortunately, I cannot - I am still in the build process and have not even begun looking at REW yet. I would suggest going to that forum, reading all the stickies and looking through the threads - that should be a good place to start.


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## MeatHanky (Feb 10, 2011)

Wow, I really like those! They do bring a bit of art to function, which is hard to do. Can you describe how you made those?


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thank you
I have some pictures on my page related this process 
http://olga66.wordpress.com


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## generico (Mar 22, 2012)

really nice work 

Did they really difussing audio?


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

Yes they do, however it is not full 20-20K, but I think it is good balance between diffusers, scatter and esthetic, plus 2" of foam inside can provide nice absorption results


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I think they look cool, and if their original intent was to be pieces of art, it's like you get a great bonus out of them making some improvements to your sound. Like you said, they won't cover the full spectrum, but if they make any positive difference in the room's sound, then I'd consider it a big :T


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

It's so sweet. Thank you :jiggy:


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## localhost127 (Jan 2, 2011)

generico said:


> Did they really difussing audio?


no.
and do to only being seen by HF wavelengths, it's essentially filtering/EQ/coloring the spectral content of the reflection.

mid-lower band specular reflections will not "see" those protrusions.


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thank you for your opinion


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## localhost127 (Jan 2, 2011)

olga66 said:


> Thank you for your opinion


basic physics is not "opinion based".


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## omholt (Jun 5, 2007)

I'm afraid these cannot be considered as real diffusors.
Placing diffusors behind speakers is also quite pointless. Diffusion should come from behind the listener, and preferable latterally.


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thank you guys for comments, but you are so funny – “real diffusers” and “basic physics” it’s something 

I personally like this by Hiroyasu Kondo –“ Sound is said to be propagated as wave motion. This is only true in a large room with no obstruction. In reality, however, sound waves move in much more complicated way, colliding and jostling here and there, sometimes in a whirl. We audio engineers should try to visualize in our head how the sound waves are behaving, which cannot be explained by electrical theory. There seem to be still countless unknown factors challenging audio engineers. The more you think about audio, the deeper it appears to become”.


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

You can run to now assert that acoustics is just _so _complex that science cannot fathom the mystery that is occurring; but the fact is that wave behavior and its 3space volumetric superposition, while not necessarily a simple linear structure, is by no means beyond the understanding of acoustical physics.

And even referring to electrical small signal analysis that employs sinusoidal wave models and confusing them them with longitudinal waves that characterized sound behavior with its regions of varying pressure is a grand example of how the inappropriate use of models leads ones to all sorts of mistakes that are a far cry from what science can and cannot know.

And yes, if you do bother to investigate the subject further, you will quickly discover that what many casually refer to as 'diffusers' are in fact 'scatterers', devices that only redirect energy spatially but not temporally, which is a requirement for a true diffusor..


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

Thank you SAC
No question that a good diffuser needs to generate spatial and temporal dispersion. However, since I’m doing more art works then audio engineering, I always looking the way for creation. Thank you for pointing me to “to investigate the subject further” it was so sweet. May I also make some suggestion for you, if you have time and desire try to read this article “Aperiodic Tiling of Diffusers Using a Single Asymmetric Base Shape” - If diffusers are placed in a periodic arrangement, the scattered energy will be concentrated into diffraction lobes, and consequently the scattering will not be uniform in all directions. Furthermore, the low frequency response can be limited by periodicity effects. Consequently, this paper will present a method for creating and arranging diffusers to cover a large area in an aperiodic manner to overcome these problems. The method is applicable to curved surfaces, including hemispherical scatterers. It uses a single asymmetric base shape for ease of manufacture and installation. The effectiveness of the technique will be demonstrated through Boundary Element Modeling. And also take a look at this patent
http://www.google.com/patents?id=yW...=gbs_selected_pages&cad=2#v=onepage&q&f=false
May be you can see world differently 
:dontknow:


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## SAC (Dec 3, 2009)

LOL! I have spent much of my adult life researching and utilizing reflection, diffraction and various associated effects in both optics and acoustical imaging and communications research routinely ranging from microwaves to audible wavelengths.

OK, let's move to more basic concepts that render all of the additional concerns moot.

Sound has size.

In order for the sound to 'see' an object as other than flat surface, the object must be larger than the wavelength.

Thus, if you want the pattern to reflect the sound such that the resultant reflections superpose to create a soundfield with a uniform power response, the diffusing material must be 'seen'. A much more fundamental concern that the arrangement of he surfaces and the resulting interference pattern.

So, assuming a largest pattern dimension size of, say, 4 inches in the pattern, the lowest frequency that will even 'see' the pattern instead of a flat wall is ~3376 Hz. 

Hardly an effective broadband treatment.

The least of your worries is periodicity!

Thus if the various structure(s) are not even effectively 'seen', an arrangement, periodic or aperiodic, or the utilization of techniques such as the Barker sequence are a rather moot concern. As first one must satisfy the more basic requirements such as being 'seen' and reflected in a manner other than is done by an effectively flat panel, then one can worry about the specific resultant effect it has on the energy.


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## olga66 (Feb 14, 2012)

SAC
“moot concern” - I'm not arguing with you, and where you see promises of “effective broadband treatment”? :rolleyesno:


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