# Please help with a new HT audio setup



## lurker18 (Nov 14, 2012)

Have the TV Panny 60st50, going to be using the PS3 as the BluRay player and gaming (obvious), and am now looking for a surround system to complete the unit. First, I am totally uneducated in sound systems, so I don't understand 90% of what is discussed here. Please help with what I need. I am looking at an Onkyo HT-S9400 (in the $700 price range, shipping included), or if you pros out there can put together a system for the same price.
Again, I am a total newbie on this, so if you have recommendations, please be as clear and simple as possible. Most of the stuff will need to be ordered on line for the best price as well as up here we are charged way too much for anything.
Thank you for any help.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For $700 the Onkyo HTIB system is a good start as it uses a real receiver and real speakers and a sub. If you were to up your budget to around $1000 then we could do better but for $700 thats about as good as it gets.


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## lurker18 (Nov 14, 2012)

Is the extra 300 really worth it? I am not going for blow the windows out power, more for the clear surround sound. I will never max out the volume or peel paint with this.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

How large is your room? Thats going to be the real issue.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

The HTiB type of setup is generally full of compromises, and is often not the preferred way to build a HT system. They make purchasing a lot easier, but the enjoyment factor can be a lot less as well. It seems a lot of people "outgrow" their HTiB rather quickly, and ultimately go out and purchase a better setup. Something to consider at least.

One thing I did notice immediately is that Onkyo system is 7.1, meaning 7 speakers and 1 subwoofer. It's better to have a quality 5.1 system then a mediocre 7.1 system, so you may want to keep that in mind when shopping. If you're heart is set on 7.1 then just be prepared for all the components to be a step down in quality and output.

A factor that's very critical to a good HT system is matching it to the room size. How big is your room (HWD)? That will go a long way in helping us point you in the correct direction.


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## lurker18 (Nov 14, 2012)

It is not a dedicated TV room, but a finished basement. Fairly large "room" 34 feet along one wall by about 20 feet deep, the tv area being set up about the middle. Ceilings are going to be about 7 to 7 1/2 feet high, with two bulkheads about 6 1/2 feet high. TV will be mounted on the wall between the two bulkheads. The sitting area will be roughly 12 to 15 feet from the TV.


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## lurker18 (Nov 14, 2012)

theJman said:


> One thing I did notice immediately is that Onkyo system is 7.1, meaning 7 speakers and 1 subwoofer. It's better to have a quality 5.1 system then a mediocre 7.1 system, so you may want to keep that in mind when shopping. If you're heart is set on 7.1 then just be prepared for all the components to be a step down in quality and output.


Not set on a 7.1 system. More limited by budget. The $700 to my door price range looked good, if a 5.1 system for the same price and better quality can be had, I am all in for that. Like I said, total newbie that needs a shopping list for this.


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## jgourlie (Jun 16, 2012)

I have always been a fan of Energy speakers...seeing as a built my whole theater all Energy....When I started out I got the Energy Take Classic 5.1 system. I am also a fan of Denon Receivers.

The Take 5.1 can be had for between $300-$400 and you can usually pick up a Receiver for $300-$400.

Truth be told I did grow out of that system over the years. If your expectations are low for making your ears bleed then these htib type system can make you quite happy.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Thats a fairly large space to fill with a HTIB system however Budget will dictate what you end up with. Many people will recommend starting with a good receiver, two main speakers and a sub to start with and add the other speakers as money allows that way you get better now instead of later.
Onkyo receiver have over and over again been bench tested to out preform other receiver companies for power output. don't go by the specifications as they are very misleading.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

If not sitting too far back - and you want something to get started with,
I would look at the Acoustic Energy Package from AC4L > then look at a
Onkyo or Denon refurbish receiver from AC4L.

Acoustic Energy - use to list for around $2000, Under $500 holiday price.
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...me-Theater-Speaker-Package-Gloss-Black/1.html 

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...eries-4in-Satellite-Speaker-Black-Each/1.html

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ries-200-Watt-Dual-8in-Subwoofer-Black/1.html

I would also put the Pioneer Phase 2 series speakers, on a short list.
However I would get the Acoustic Energy sub, over that Pioneer sub.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

That's a huge room, somewhere between 4700-5000 cubic feet. There isn't even a $700 subwoofer that will be able to put a dent in that much space, let alone an entire system I'm afraid. The unfortunate thing is HT equipment doesn't just see the space designated as the viewing area, it sees all of it as one big volume (especially true of the subwoofer). Unless you're sitting right on top of everything I suspect the equipment that fits your budget will simply be overwhelmed by the room it's in.

Given your circumstances I would opt for a 2.1 or 2.2 system instead, using towers for the left and right. All modern AV receivers have the ability to create a "phantom" center channel by using the front two speakers, so in essence it would be a 3.1 (or 3.2) system. That type of setup would mean you can get most of the effects provided by blu-rays. It's not ideal but it would save some money, and allow you to buy better equipment now.

One such system might consist of the Pioneer SP-FS52 speakers and either the Acoustic Audio HD-SUB15 subwoofer, or perhaps a pair of Dayton Audio SUB-1200's instead. Depending upon which route you went that would be about $450-$500, leaving $200-$250 to use on a receiver.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Lets not try to discourage him either, We are spoiled with having so much clean bass that we forget that more than 70% of people on this forum simply cant afford to get what we have all at once. Start small and build up to a great system as I did and many others do as well.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm certainly not trying to discourage him, otherwise I wouldn't have given a suggestion about how best to get around the situation. My comments are intended as more of a reality check then anything else. My fear is he'll spend all the money he has on a system that's simply unable to perform in his environment. My belief is he would ultimately be more unhappy doing that then if someone tries to alert him there's going to be an issue, and it might be better to temper his expectations and perhaps choose an alternate course.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Unfortunately, (unless something has changed in the last little while) A4L does not ship to Canada....:hissyfit::crying::rant:

http://winnipeg.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-electronics-ONKYO-TX-SR606-RECEIVER-W0QQAdIdZ434266173

Can't judge is condition (listen before you buy) probably get it for 200 or so

If you don't like used I think Visions has a sale on.

http://www.fluance.com/product/SX_5_1_Surround_Sound_Home_Theater_Speaker_System_black.eng-101.html

These are the speakers I would go for if I was in the price range


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

Andre said:


> Unfortunately, (unless something has changed in the last little while) A4L does not ship to Canada....:hissyfit::crying::rant:


AC4L does ship to the USA and Canada.

Some products are restricted to the USA.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I just looked at an Onkyo TX-NR616 and 818 both had this warning:

*Sold exclusively within the US only. No shipments allowed outside the US!


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

This is how I look at it, in a 20 X 30 area and somewhat bigger,> I can hear
a telephone ring, a dog bark, some TV's, trucks from the outside >> people 
calling someone from another room, and a loud TV from another room. 

I can play a Pioneer BS22 speaker in a 20 x 30 open room, louder over some 
regular conversations between people.

For one on a tight budget, something like the Acoustic Energy set will not sound
like it is in a corner crying. >>> And neither will the Pioneer towers or bookshelf
speakers with a decent sub to start.

Something decent to begin with, is better than nothing.


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## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Lets not try to discourage him either, We are spoiled with having so much clean bass that we forget that more than 70% of people on this forum simply cant afford to get what we have all at once. Start small and build up to a great system as I did and many others do as well.


Agreed on that.

Hi Lurkster,

Welcome to the "money pit that puts a smile on your face everyday" of home theater.  Most of us around here have been doing this awhile and don't have unlimited budgets. We usually build our rigs over time depending on our priorities.

Let's talk about the Onkyo system you've chosen first. It's called a "packaged system" in the business but most of us call it by the sometimes pejorative "home theater in a box (HTiB)". A long time ago systems like this were the cheapest of the cheap with few, if any quality parts. But times have changed and buyers tastes and gotten better. The big advance is that the center of the system, the receiver has gotten much better features for a lot less money over time. And really, that's where most of the money in this set-up is going. Onkyo makes quality gear and many around these parts and other places have Onkyo receivers. The receiver in this package would probably retail for $450-$500 on its own, which means it's not a bad piece of hardware to build around.

Of course, you have to make compromises somewhere, and that's usually the speakers in a packaged system. Now let's be truthful. Speakers in a setup like this aren't going to rival those you buy from a manufacturer who makes quality speaker cabinets for a living. The cabinets are made of pressed board versus medium-density fiberboard and you're not going to see high quality wood venners. The speaker drivers aren't going to be high quality either. And no sub in this price class will really fill that room.

But you know what? They are still going to sound FAR BETTER than the speakers in the TV. And you will get separation of the soundtrack which is what most people never get outside a real movie theater. Even having a dedicated center channel speaker which is where most of the dialog comes from is a big improvement from what most people ever hear in their homes.

So for $200, consider the speakers to be your "starter kit". You can wire the room and mount the speakers and have a nice presentation to begin with that I'm sure you and your family will appreciate. But when you get more budget, start thinking about upgrading the speakers and the subwoofer (two different purchases) with better quality gear. And here's the big secret..you don't really have to spend a ton of money to get a nice sound these days. Many of us got their speakers from on-line speaker companies who do high quality cabinets, drivers and electronics as their main business. A lot of them sell clusters of 5 or 7 speakers for less than $1000, sometimes a lot less.

You can start looking at some of the advertisers here to get an idea of what's available but I'm sure that most people would be happy to share what they have and what their budgets were. Buying a sub is a different kind of purchase and there are companies who specialize in just doing that (or mostly that). You can easily get something that will rock your house and be true to music.

One more thing...someone said to ignore the speaker wire that comes with the gear...that's good advice. Speaker wire can be easily obtained from a local hardware store like Home Depot by the spool or from mail order places like Monoprice.com. Speaking of Monoprice, they are the honey pot around here for cables (HDMI, toslink, coax, etc). You don't have to pay for ridiculous store markups when Monoprice will sell you cheap quality HDMI cables for a few bucks... buy extra and save later shipping!

Lastly, you'll still have some money left over for a Blu-Ray player. You'll see a lot of people talk about Oppo players around here and they are the best, but if you are starting out, most name brand (Sony, Samsung, Toshiba) units can be had at Costco, Best Buy or other places for $60-$130, depending on the features. Most even have Netflix streaming and other online goodies at that price.

Good luck.


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## lurker18 (Nov 14, 2012)

Thank you all for the suggestions and the help. I do realize that the tv area is not the ideal place for the sound system, but as said, whatever I chose will be a lot better than the tv speakers.
I was thinking that a 7 speaker system would surround the viewer in more of a sound bubble than just a 2 or 5 speaker arrangement, but that is just my logic.
As some have said, certain places do not ship to Canada, but I only live 45 minutes from the boarder, and have a package handling company that I have delt with several times, so that is not a issue.
So if I was to go with the Onkyo system, with future plans to upgrade the speakers as money and deals come up, would this receiver be powerful enough to handle an upgrade? Remember that I am not looking for a earth shattering system, but one that would give me more of the surround feeling.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The receiver that you get with the HTIB system was bench tested to do 85watts per channel all channels driven so it would have no issues driving most speakers to a nice level without any distortion.


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## wheatenterrier (Jan 16, 2009)

Regarding the 5 vs 7 speakers. I started have had a 7.1 setup or two and I can tell you that you almost never hear anything out of the back two. Most of the DVDs and Blu rays I rent don't seem to have a lot of effects for the back two speakers. 

One thing you have to realize is that, not all the speakers are playing at once. Vocals come through the center and the R and L but mostly the center. The side speakers play music sometimes and do a lot of sound effects.

It's not easy for humans to hear sound coming from behind them. If you came over to my house and we demoed movies in 7.1 vs 5.1 you would probably not even be able to tell the difference. 

My father in law has an infinity Primus 5 ch system and it rocks! So I suggest checking the infinity primus line.

I suggest you get 3 sets of these http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10904&cs_id=1090407&p_id=8251&seq=1&format=2

Use one for the center and one for the back, with a R, L and a surround on each side. So 6.1 Monoprice also has some cheap subs. This leaves you lots of money for a receiver and you can always upgrade the speakers later once you know what you really want.


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## DADEO (Nov 26, 2012)

I don't know, maybe the Onkyo suggestions here are good ones,I certainly don't know enough about these things, but I've been looking and reading a lot and from what I've read I'm a bit confused now. I've been reading some pretty harsh comments from people who own certain units. Read a few at Onkyo's forum or Amazon and your ears will turn red. Example, I really like the TXNR-616 or the 515, but after reading reviews, I'd be afraid to buy one right now. What do you all think
about these units, safe buy or roll of the dice?


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## bxbigpipi (Feb 2, 2012)

I myself have a htib. I have the onkyo hts7300 which is a 7.1 system and I have no complaints about it. I actually think it sounds great. I had infinity towers before also. For the money I think it's great. Like others have said if later you want to upgrade, you have that option. I have mine connected to an Oppo and it sounds fantastic!


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

I have bought 3 Onkyo receivers, currently owning 2. My next receiver will most likely be another Onkyo. The 9400 you are looking at is the best packaged system anywhere near that price range. That being said, you have been given a range of options that could work well. (1)This system,(2) this receiver with a different 5.1 speaker package, or (3)starting with 2.1 and adding on. Are you looking for a one time purchase, or a foundation to build on over time?


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

I just happened to see a 5.0 Jamo speaker system for very little money, so perhaps that's something to throw into the mix as a possible option.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

lurker18 said:


> I was thinking that a 7 speaker system would surround the viewer in more of a sound bubble than just a 2 or 5 speaker arrangement, but that is just my logic.


You would be surprised what decent speakers can do in 5.1, with
good off-axis response. > Some 5.1 systems, sound a lot better
than cheaper 7.1 systems.


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## lurker18 (Nov 14, 2012)

Right now I have a 5.1 cheapo JVC system on a different TV in a much smaller room, and have no complaints about it, doesn't blow stuff away, but works. Like I said my logic was more speakers would create a bigger sound bubble. I am not dead set on a 7.1, or any particular brand, but I do think that I want at least a 5.1 system, as I will be using it for gaming as well, and love the surround effects that come from games.
I will have to go back and look at the suggestions and put pencil to paper to figure out the best bang for the buck here. Back to the research.

To get this straight, to me it seems that the order of imprtance is the best reciever, best sub, and then the speakers. Correct?

And this will probably be an upgradable system, to an extent. Upgrading speakers maybe one more time, possibly the sub, but I don't think I want to redo the whole system every few years.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

lurker18 said:


> To get this straight, to me it seems that the order of imprtance is the best reciever, best sub, and then the speakers. Correct?
> 
> And this will probably be an upgradable system, to an extent. Upgrading speakers maybe one more time, possibly the sub


To me, a somewhat overall balance is important, I would not like to cheap-out too much
on the speakers or sub. Good Luck!


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Keep in mind your overall system is only as good as its weakest link. I would personally place more importance on the speakers and sub. Having said that you also want a quality receiver as it's the brain of the system. To be honest quality throughout your system chain can be had without breaking the bank if you research before buying. Coming here is a great start.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

lurker18 said:


> .
> 
> To get this straight, to me it seems that the order of imprtance is the best reciever, best sub, and then the speakers. Correct?


The receiver must be adequate, or else no speakers will sound good. For a large room I always recommend Onkyo 600 series or higher. The sub will have the most dramatic effect explosions, but the single greatest impact on sound quality is the front 3 speakers. Surrounds, whether 2 or 4, are at the the bottom of the priority list for me. 
1) front 3 speakers
2) adequate receiver
3) decent sub
4) surrounds
5) 2nd matching sub
6) if you have taken care of the rest, put extra money into a better receiver
7) if you have taken care of the rest, put extra money into better subs
8) if you still have money left over, you should have spent more on 1)


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

^^^+1 (though 2 and 3 are interchangeable)


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

JBrax said:


> Keep in mind your overall system is only as good as its weakest link.


+1

That's precisely why I was advocating less total speakers, but better overall quality. Without balance it all falls apart.


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## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

theJman said:


> +1
> 
> That's precisely why I was advocating less total speakers, but better overall quality. Without balance it all falls apart.


Yes, but with this packaged system, whether its 5 or 7 surround speakers are immaterial. The speakers are cheap enough that they threw in two more to make it a full 7. It probably costs Onkyo all of $25 (if that) to add the last two surrounds.

I'd use the opportunity to wire the room for 7.1 and then replace the speakers over time with higher quality ones. I'd also say that the center channel is the most important, even more so than the front left and right. Nearly all dialog comes from there and you'll be amazed at what a quality center channel does for the entire presentation. The front left and right are close behind in importance and should be carefully considered for quality and soundstage. I'd replace the subwoofer next. Lastly, I'd go for the surrounds.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

For a limited budget i think the HTIB systems that have a real AVR in them are not a bad way to go.
My son has a Sony HTIB and it sounds good. It is made up of fairly small bookshelf speakers and a 8" subwoofer. The AVR has 3 or 4 HDMI inputs, speaker trim and distance is user adjustable, no auto cal is built in.
It does not sound like my system, but for the amount invested in it the performance is quite a bit better than I would have ever expected.
I say go for the HTIB and enjoy it.


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