# Did using a mic change the way you listen?



## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

I've been on the fence for a while now on getting a mic to calibrate my system. I, like most here I'm sure, love to tinker and am curious if it is more a toy to tinker with or if after using a mic, I'll be like "Wow, how did I ever listen to anything before this?".

I'm using an older Yamaha RX-V3300 receiver so my adjustment options are limited, but this unit is also pre auto calibration. So I figure the mic might give me a starting point, but I also know I like to run my subs hot just using my SPL meter. I guess my concern is even though the mic might tell me one thing, my ears may tell me another.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Calibration is more about learning what your ears are actually telling you. The problem is that you don't know. What you like has so many variables that you really have little idea how what you hear relates to any objective measure. When you calibrate, you learn some of this. You may discover that you like or don't like whatever target response you calibrate to, but at least you will have a reference point to work from.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

I like the Omnimic because it shows me, in real time, the FR of my system and how changes I make affect it. It's a great tool for optimizing speaker and sub placement, and determining what kind of tweaks to apply for the best / flattest response at the listening position.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Because you don't have PEQ setup is important speaker/listening position can help.

Other option is the UMIK-1 or UMM-6 from Cross-Spectrum (mics only) and they work with REW.

They are both calibrated from 5 - 25,000hz.

Basically Mic/REW will tell you what you need to know about your system/room.

This could be your cheapest upgrade.

Are you happy with the sound you currently have?

You could buy $20,000 speakers and have them setup/positioned wrong and you could buy speakers worth $2,000 setup correctly, and these will sound better.


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Phillips said:


> Because you don't have PEQ setup is important speaker/listening position can help.
> 
> Other option is the UMIK-1 or UMM-6 from Cross-Spectrum (mics only) and they work with REW.
> 
> ...


OK, I'm sold. I'll being placing my order shortly.

I actually am quite happy with the sound I have now, but there is always room for improvement.

I couldn't agree more with the cheaper speakers being setup correctly could sound better. I've found that in my room just using the spl meter that a single subwoofer in the front corner has a better frequency response than multiples around the room.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Highly recommend buying from Cross - Spectrum.

You won't regret it, alot of fun trying to get that extra out of your system.


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Would you say it's safe to go with the UMIK-1 at this point?

I know they were having some issues, but reading through the other threads it looks like those have been resolved. Plus with the CSL calibration, that should remove any ghosts in the system, I would imagine.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

jimmy bobarino said:


> Would you say it's safe to go with the UMIK-1 at this point?
> 
> I know they were having some issues, but reading through the other threads it looks like those have been resolved. Plus with the CSL calibration, that should remove any ghosts in the system, I would imagine.


Looking on Cross - Spectrum thread Herb says that the UMIK-1 is the way to go, so to answer your question "yes".

If you are unsure drop Herb a email or post on his thread, see link below.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ctrum-microphone-calibration-service-usa.html


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing what I'm actually listening to.

Why does that seem weird somehow?...


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

jimmy bobarino said:


> Thanks, I'm looking forward to seeing what I'm actually listening to.
> 
> Why does that seem weird somehow?...


Yeah quite true, a test for your ears.

I always thought that my ears were not that great, but soon realized that they were ok when measured and found out that the high end dropped of @ 5 khz.

*Some things to think about:*
1. Use the RTA in REW to find the best position/listening position for each speaker
2. Measure each main speaker to fine tune after finding these positions
3. Depending on gear if you have EQ and Distance settings set these up
4. Keep this in mind, when you are EQing 0 - 250hz you are EQing for the room, when EQing 250 - 20,000hz you are EQing the speakers, if this makes sense.
5. When EQing bass (0 - 250hz) apply EQ filters to both speakers playing (mono).


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Thanks for the tips.

I'm sure I'll have a thousand more questions once I begin.


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

I'd just like to answer my own question with a resounding Yes!!!:T

After just one evening of tweaking I'm experiencing imaging and clarity I've never experienced before.

This could get dangerous, the endless pursuit of nirvana.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Cool! I'm jumping in too. What do you eq with?


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

I haven't even got that far yet, the improvements I've gotten so far are just from positioning and sub balancing. It turns out the old trusty rat shack meter isn't as trustworthy as I thought. After many hours of measuring with the SPL meter I wasn't even close to a flat eq. I would highly recommend the mic/rew setup with just a few hours experience, for the ability to properly balance your subs if nothing else.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Post some graphs to see the difference.

You might not need a EQ or room treatment.

I have a Dspeaker Antimode Dual Core 2.0, which i run for my mains only (can be used for dual subs as well). This unit has very good features that improve the sound, but also can get dangerous if using to much, e.g each channel has 17 manual PEQ filters even after Auto EQ.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

jimmy bobarino said:


> I'd just like to answer my own question with a resounding Yes!!!:T
> 
> After just one evening of tweaking I'm experiencing imaging and clarity I've never experienced before.
> 
> This could get dangerous, the endless pursuit of nirvana.


And welcome to the rabbit hole, it just goes on and on and on...

Enjoy the journey, the destinations can be very spaced out. But also extremely satisfying. Glad to hear you are getting some good results.


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Phillips said:


> Post some graphs to see the difference.
> 
> You might not need a EQ or room treatment.
> 
> I have a Dspeaker Antimode Dual Core 2.0, which i run for my mains only (can be used for dual subs as well). This unit has very good features that improve the sound, but also can get dangerous if using to much, e.g each channel has 17 manual PEQ filters even after Auto EQ.


Unfortunately in all my excitement, it seems I forgot to save the original graph. I know my original settings so I can recreate it.

What is the preferred smoothing when posting graphs?


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

AudiocRaver said:


> And welcome to the rabbit hole, it just goes on and on and on...
> 
> Enjoy the journey, the destinations can be very spaced out. But also extremely satisfying. Glad to hear you are getting some good results.


Enjoying the journey I am. I got off work early yesterday so I could do some more tweaking before the girlfriend got home. I made the mistake of starting some music while setting up, not a single measurement was made.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

jimmy bobarino said:


> Unfortunately in all my excitement, it seems I forgot to save the original graph. I know my original settings so I can recreate it.
> 
> What is the preferred smoothing when posting graphs?


Below is the link for posting graphs.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/934-please-read-posting-graph.html

Generally i think 1/6 octave smoothing is preferred.


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Finally got a chance to get some graphs together. Let me know if you have any tips on getting rid of the null at 500hz, otherwise I don't think they look too bad.

Mains








Subs








Mains & subs averaged


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

jimmy bobarino said:


> Finally got a chance to get some graphs together. Let me know if you have any tips on getting rid of the null at 500hz, otherwise I don't think they look too bad.
> 
> Mains
> View attachment 42565
> ...


What gear do you have receiver, subs speakers etc?

If the receiver has Auto calibration or manual has this been activated?

With the mains graphs are they full range?

In respect of 500hz null/dip try moving the listening position/mic forward about a foot to see if it improves.
Also post/measure with both subs playing (mono). This is the recommend setup. Although good to site what each sub is doing for positioning.


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Phillips said:


> What gear do you have receiver, subs speakers etc?
> 
> If the receiver has Auto calibration or manual has this been activated?
> 
> ...


Receiver: Yamaha RX-V3300
Speakers: Pioneer SP-FS51-LR
Subs: 2 Pioneer SW-8

No auto calibration on the receiver, only bass and treble tone controls.

The mains are crossed over at 90hz, this is fixed in the receiver.

I'll try moving the mic to see if that improves the null.

Both subs combined.


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## tba (Jun 10, 2013)

Icaillo said everything right. The auto eq can help anyone inexperienced. There is the starting point to go forward. Honestly, I never seen a real audiophile person, who knows what to listen for, to rely on auto eq. If you spend some time in a live music environment and listen to each instrument, you will know what are your expectations at home. The real bass guitar goes to 40 hz on E string and to 31 hz on B string if is a 5 string guitar. Apart of a pipe organ, why do we insist on flat response at 16-20Hz? Or at 22Khz? Real music has very little content below 30Hz. Positioning of speakers and some room damping is the best improvement you can do.
Regards,
tba


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Addressing the 500 hz "dip region" - a null is normally thought of as being a sharp notch - it would be helpful to know if this is part of the speaker's characteristic or if it is all acoustical/room. Try moving the LP, as suggested, just a quick experiment to see what it does to that part of the curve. Another experiment, do a quick measurement 1 meter or so from the speaker, on the tweeter axis, just to see if a similar dip occurs there.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

AudiocRaver said:


> Addressing the 500 hz "dip region" - a null is normally thought of as being a sharp notch - it would be helpful to know if this is part of the speaker's characteristic or if it is all acoustical/room. Try moving the LP, as suggested, just a quick experiment to see what it does to that part of the curve. Another experiment, do a quick measurement 1 meter or so from the speaker, on the tweeter axis, just to see if a similar dip occurs there.


I moved my mic/ listening position a foot and the null at 500hz decreased.


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

I finally got a chance to take some more measurements. Moving it forward some didn't really seem to help the dip area around 500hz, but it seems it's not the speakers. At 1 meter they seem to have a little rise in the 500hz area. I'm not really going to worry too much about it. I think my biggest improvements are going to come from additional room treatments. It seems like for a room of this size with no curtains and short carpet the decay times aren't terrible. I've posted some waterfall charts below, let me know if you see any areas of concern or have any advice. I know I could us a bass trap behind the left speaker in the front corner, but that is really the only corner in the listening area.

Mains with subs on couch








Mains with subs 2 feet forward








Mains with subs 1 meter








Left with subs waterfall








Right with subs waterfall


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Can you post waterfall graphs that have the range 15 - 300hz as above this it has no use.

Are you using the subs as mono or stereo?

Can you post graphs with both speakers playing as well.

How does it sound to you?


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## jimmy bobarino (Mar 13, 2012)

Here you go, both mains and subs together.








The subs are being run mono.

I'm quite happy with how it sounds, but I thought I was happy before I started this adventure too. I think it's that whole you don't know what you're missing if you don't have it kind of thing. 

Below are some RT60 charts of the midrange as well. I've been using the Acoustic Frontiers guide as a goal.

Left








Right








They are kind of high, but it is a really large room. They do seem fairly balanced though.


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## jstanley214 (May 22, 2013)

I have a Pioneer VSX-921. It came with a mic specifically for that. All of my calibration experience had been with video mainly because I get more satisfaction when I can really see the difference. I used the mic it came with and could tell a difference in sound. It wasn't much but it was enough that I could tell. I'm far from an expert and had never really used any kind of tool for calibration but it might surprise you what difference it can make.


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