# Starting the HT Room build in a few weeks - Some Questions



## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

So we have the bid in from the contractors to start our basement finish, which means that the HT room will be started in a few weeks and hopefully done in about 6 weeks.

However I have some beginner questions and I am hoping that some of you can help me out. It still astonishes me how much knowledge you guys have on this stuff. I have been trying to soak it up but I feel overwhelmed sometimes.

When I ask these questions, if you do not want to type out the answer but just want to point me in the direction that I can go to find the answer. That would also be much appreciated. I do not mind reading to learn if I know where to go.

So the basics of the room to give you an idea of the layout.

13.5' Wide x 19' Long x 7' High (we may get 7.5' Height).

Room will be TOTALLY dark. Its a basement and this one room will have zero light sources other than controlled light.

Back wall will have a set of 72" French doors. There will also be a 3.5' door about halfway on the all on the right side going into a storage room (this is also where the components will be)

We will be using one row of theater seating to start. Not sure about how far back, this will be one of my questions later. I may also throw a few of those huge beanbags in front of the theater seating.

I will be buying and using the Epson 8350 Projector and am hoping to go with a 115" - 120" screen (purchased screen, not a DIY)

Ok.. so now to my questions.

1. Paint Color - From what I understand I want to go with a dark color. I was thinking about a burgendy type of color with some "sponge" type of effect. 

Something like this, only in a darker burgandy http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.meredith.com/bhg/images/2007/04/p_100030618.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bhg.com/decorating/paint/decorative-painting/sponge-painting/%3Fpage%3D2&usg=__w6kOCdpIwSNPhO4O7qpLVpINttE=&h=480&w=360&sz=77&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=LekVUiQtBzkarM:&tbnh=148&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsponge%2Bpaint%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26biw%3D1899%26bih%3D999%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Div&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=248&ei=gwH3TLbwFYKclge1ie3RBQ&oei=gwH3TLbwFYKclge1ie3RBQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=52&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&tx=86&ty=58

Do you see a negative to that or should I keep it a solid color? Also, is there a certain type of paint I should use or one that I want to stay away from (gloss, etc)?


2. Running my cables - To save money, I am going to run my own cables. I plan to put some conduit in the walls where the cables are going in order to allow easier fishing in the future. I will be honest, I have never run cable before so I am not sure if there are any rules that I should follow. The only thing I do know is that I want to keep the wire away from electrical that is run.

One question about it is if I should terminate the cables at an outlet box that is in the wall or if it is ok if I just run it through the wall to the speakers, subs, etc. 

Any do's and dont's that you have would be awesome.



3. Seatting Placement - My guess is that my row of seatting will be at about the 12'-13' mark. With the screen off the wall about 1', that would put me about 12' back from the screen. With the Epson 8350, should it be able to do a 120" screen? Is that normally too small, just right or too big from that seating distance? I went to a home theater place to talk to a guy about a month ago and he expressed some reservations in going to 120" or bigger with that projector due to the lumens it has.



4. Speaker Placement - I will be honest in that I have no idea where my speakers should be going. I know that the center will go about head height behind the screen with the sub on the floor along side it (I will eventually go to a 2nd sub also on the other side). However from the seatting position I am not sure where to place the fronts and the rears. (or the extra 2 when I go to 7.2 when the money is freed up). Are there basic rules for this or does anyone have a link to somewhere that shows me these basics?



5. Screen - As I mentioned before, I am going to buy a screen. From what I understand the quality of the screen is just as important as the Projector itself so I plan on spending some good money on getting a nice quality one. Any recommendations for what I am doing? I do not mind spending up to $1200 or so for one if I need to. I obviously want to make sure that I get my moneys worth out of it though.



6. Green Glue - When I want to the Home Theater place, I explained to him that this is not my end all be all theater room. We do not plan on living here more than another 3 years or so and I will save all the best stuff for down the road when I build my ultimate setup. Due to that, I will not have all the bass traps, etc in the room. What he did suggest I do however is to do 2 layers of sheetrock all around the room and to put Green Glue in between them. Does this sound correct? If so, does anyone know a good supplier of Green Glue? Any recommendations on that?


7. Misc questions - I know that in all this magic of sound waves and such, there are room sizes you want to stay away from. I want to make sure that my 13.5' x 19' will not fall into that. I also do not know the rules about where to put accoustic panels. I can figure that out later when the installers come for my projector and screen (and calibration) but if I know the basics of it now, it may help me avoid something I dont want to do.


I know that there are a lot of questions here and I really do apologize. I did not think I had that many when I sat down to write this post. However they just kept coming and coming. In advance I greatly appreciate any help that you guys can give me or any directions you can point me in to find the correct answers.

If you guys are interested, I will start taking pics this weekend to show the progress of the room.

Thanks again!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Speaker placement: 2ft.+/- from rear wall if possible same for side walls maybe in a bit farther (close to screen) towed in slightly to your listening position.

Running wire: Be sure to lable them and run them where you know you want them otherwise it will be abit of a headache later on as far as getting wall plates or just coming through the walls thats up to you, wall plates look cleaner IMHO.:T


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> 4. Speaker Placement...


I don’t quite agree with everything in it, but this article should get you started. For instance, in the first picture IMO the front L/R speakers are too close together and there’s no way I’d ever do the rear speakers like that, “in your face” right next to the couch. 

In your situation, put the front L/R speakers to the side of the screen, or further if needed to stay with the “equilateral triangle” arrangement that’s generally accepted for stereo imaging. I.e., the L/R speakers are spread apart the same distance you sit from them. If the L/R speakers are too close together, front pans will be less dramatic.

The rear speakers are a bit tricky in your case, with the possibility of later additional seating. I prefer the rear speakers to be a few feet behind and above the seating – never directly to the side and at ear level, as that makes them too easy to localize, and that’s really distracting. I’ve never cared for systems where the rear speakers where directly to the side of the seating. To me, you just don’t truly get “surround” sound unless the rear speakers are behind the seating (either on the side walls, or the rear wall facing the seating), so that you are totally enveloped in the sound field. I just don’t get that with direct-to-the-side speakers: The sound field is all to the side and in front of you, not _around_ you.

It looks like you’re room’s going to be a bit narrow, so your best bet might be to use bi- or dipolar speakers for the sides, and perhaps some direct radiating speakers for the rear walls when you move up to 7.1.




> 6. Green Glue - What he did suggest I do however is to do 2 layers of sheetrock all around the room and to put Green Glue in between them.


Green glue and double sheetrock is only used when soundproofing is a concern – i.e., minimizing sound bleeding out to adjacent rooms. You didn’t mention that as a concern, so just stick with a standard sheetrock installation.




> 7. Misc questions - I also do not know the rules about where to put accoustic panels.


Wall-to-wall carpet will go along way for acoustics. You may find that you don’t need anything else.


Other considerations: 
*Electrical:*
A dedicated circuit for the HT equipment is never a bad idea. If your subs are going to be the self-powered manufactured variety, I’d put an outlet at each potential location (as well as a signal cable). That way you won’t have to string extension cords across the floor. Put any room lighting and outlets on different circuits. If there will be dimmers used for the lighting, I’d suggest making sure that circuit is on the opposite phase (service leg) from the HT gear’s circuit. 

*Lighting:*
“Mood lighting” is nice – wall sconces, etc. However, be sure to also install some bright “work” lighting. It’s not particularly fun trying to vacuum in the dark, not to mention re-wire the system or trying to read the titles to DVD discs...

*Wiring:*


> One question about it is if I should terminate the cables at an outlet box that is in the wall or if it is ok if I just run it through the wall to the speakers, subs, etc.


 I prefer coming straight out of the wall to the appropriate destination for all my wiring. It’s simpler, and cheaper, and no one's going to see pretty wall plates behind the equipment rack or speakers anyway. However, since you might be moving in a few years it might be better from a re-sale perspective to terminate to wall plates – i.e., it’ll look nicer for home showing than having a bunch of wires hanging out of the walls.

You might also want to review our Things I would have done differently thread.

Regards,
Wayne


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## spartanstew (May 7, 2009)

Cream said:


> 1. Paint Color - From what I understand I want to go with a dark color. I was thinking about a burgendy type of color with some "sponge" type of effect.
> 
> Something like this, only in a darker burgandy http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.meredith.com/bhg/images/2007/04/p_100030618.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bhg.com/decorating/paint/decorative-painting/sponge-painting/%3Fpage%3D2&usg=__w6kOCdpIwSNPhO4O7qpLVpINttE=&h=480&w=360&sz=77&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=LekVUiQtBzkarM:&tbnh=148&tbnw=111&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsponge%2Bpaint%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox%26biw%3D1899%26bih%3D999%26tbs%3Disch:1%26prmd%3Div&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=248&ei=gwH3TLbwFYKclge1ie3RBQ&oei=gwH3TLbwFYKclge1ie3RBQ&esq=1&page=1&ndsp=52&ved=1t:429,r:12,s:0&tx=86&ty=58
> 
> Do you see a negative to that or should I keep it a solid color? Also, is there a certain type of paint I should use or one that I want to stay away from (gloss, etc)?


That will be fine. Keep in mind that generally, the darker the better. You don't want gloss, and flat is a drag to keep clean (unless you get washable flat). I generally use eggshell (Benjamin Moore or Sherwin Williams).




Cream said:


> 2. Running my cables - To save money, I am going to run my own cables. I plan to put some conduit in the walls where the cables are going in order to allow easier fishing in the future. I will be honest, I have never run cable before so I am not sure if there are any rules that I should follow. The only thing I do know is that I want to keep the wire away from electrical that is run.
> 
> One question about it is if I should terminate the cables at an outlet box that is in the wall or if it is ok if I just run it through the wall to the speakers, subs, etc.
> 
> Any do's and dont's that you have would be awesome.


I prefer terminating cables.




Cream said:


> 3. Seatting Placement - My guess is that my row of seatting will be at about the 12'-13' mark. With the screen off the wall about 1', that would put me about 12' back from the screen. With the Epson 8350, should it be able to do a 120" screen? Is that normally too small, just right or too big from that seating distance? I went to a home theater place to talk to a guy about a month ago and he expressed some reservations in going to 120" or bigger with that projector due to the lumens it has.


I sit 13' back from my 126" screen and love it, so you should be fine with 120" at 12'. You should be fine with that projector and a 120" screen as long as you mount it no further back than 16'.




Cream said:


> 4. Speaker Placement - I will be honest in that I have no idea where my speakers should be going. I know that the center will go about head height behind the screen with the sub on the floor along side it (I will eventually go to a 2nd sub also on the other side). However from the seatting position I am not sure where to place the fronts and the rears. (or the extra 2 when I go to 7.2 when the money is freed up). Are there basic rules for this or does anyone have a link to somewhere that shows me these basics?


Wayne already did a good job answering this. L&R flanking the screen with tweeters at about head height. I'd put the back channels on the rear wall each about 4' in toward center and about 5' - 6' high. I prefer dipoles for all my surrounds, but it's a matter of preference. When you go to add another 2 channels, just put them on the side wall slightly behind the seating and the same height as the rears (5' - 6').



Cream said:


> 5. Screen - As I mentioned before, I am going to buy a screen. From what I understand the quality of the screen is just as important as the Projector itself so I plan on spending some good money on getting a nice quality one. Any recommendations for what I am doing? I do not mind spending up to $1200 or so for one if I need to. I obviously want to make sure that I get my moneys worth out of it though.


Keep in mind that if you plan on putting your center speaker at "head height", you'll need an acoustically transparent screen. That adds to the price. You can also get a regular screen and put the center above the screen and angled down toward the listening area. I'm a big fan of carada screens and think they're a great screen for the money. They're not acoustically transparent, but for that size it'll probably cost you around $800.



Cream said:


> 6. Green Glue - When I want to the Home Theater place, I explained to him that this is not my end all be all theater room. We do not plan on living here more than another 3 years or so and I will save all the best stuff for down the road when I build my ultimate setup. Due to that, I will not have all the bass traps, etc in the room. What he did suggest I do however is to do 2 layers of sheetrock all around the room and to put Green Glue in between them. Does this sound correct? If so, does anyone know a good supplier of Green Glue? Any recommendations on that?


As Wayne mentioned, probably not necessary unless you need to isolate the sound in the theater.



Cream said:


> 7. Misc questions - I know that in all this magic of sound waves and such, there are room sizes you want to stay away from. I want to make sure that my 13.5' x 19' will not fall into that. I also do not know the rules about where to put accoustic panels. I can figure that out later when the installers come for my projector and screen (and calibration) but if I know the basics of it now, it may help me avoid something I dont want to do.


Room size should be fine. I'm not an acoustic expert, but at the very least I would make sure the room is carpeted and you have panels at the first reflection points (sit in your seat and put a mirror on the side walls between where you're sitting and the front speakers. If you can see the speaker in the mirror, that's a reflection point). Treating a room acoustically can be a bit complicated, so maybe bryan will chime in.


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

I'll just add on to the good advice you've gotten already:

>>terminate cables or not: its mostly aesthetics and convenience - not needed if you don't care.

>>screen - you said no DIY, but a sheet of WilsonArt Designer White might be a good start, and is brain dead easy - cut to size, hang on wall. You're out $100 if you yearn for something better. As far as size - buy the projector first, and project onto the wall or a white sheet, and decide on the size you like based on that first.

>>room dimensions - just steer clear of any room dimension (width, length, height) being a multiple of another dimension, and you should be OK.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Your room size is very similar to our first theater room... except a foot or so wider and a little less height.

I agree on the surround speakers placement... Wayne probably remembers our first room from when he visited Alabama. We moved the side speakers to the back corners. If I sat in the back row with the surrounds to the side, I would hear the side speakers before the fronts and it was really weird. You will want to keep them behind the back row, especially for those sitting back there. 

You will want to consider a riser for the back row, assuming it will work out around the rear entrance, which could be tricky. With your room not being any taller than it is and you planning a pretty big screen, you will almost have to have a riser back there. That may cause you to have to be a little closer to the screen, depending on your type of seating.

Draw it all out on paper or computer... lay it out so that you have a better idea of what you are looking at. Take LOTS of pictures! You can store them in our free image gallery and link to them in your build thread here. Planning is so much fun. Good luck with your build... :T


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

The Green Glue / double drywall idea is fine, however if that's all you do you'll likely have a lot of sound leaking (flanking). Doors, ventilation, etc all should be accounted for to get the best bang for your buck. Given your limited time expectations for living there, I'd say pass on the soundproofing efforts.


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

Soundproofing - I definately want to soundproof as there will be a guest bedroom right next to the Theater room and I also want to be able to watch whatever I want in there, as loud as I want to without it disturbing her upstairs.

Electrical - I have already checked with the contractor and the electrical will definately have the components and the lighting on seperate circuits.

Lighting - I will have double lighting in the room. I will have 6 canned lights on the ceiling for normal everyday use and so it can pass as a family room when I go to sell However I will also have 4 or 6 theater lights on the walls around the room for ambient lighting.

Screen - I will definately look into the Carada screens, thank you for the suggestion.

Green Glue - We did a test tonight with the sound going in the living room upstairs and you can definately hear it really easy down in the basement. So it will hold true when the reverse is setup and all the gear is down there. My wife is defiantely pushing me into the soundproofing so I will have to do that. Anyone have any good recommendations on where to buy some at a decent price?

Btw, after reading a few other HT build threads, I have decided to put the components in the wall on the right side of the room (they will be to the right of the seating) instead of having them totally in the other room.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> My wife is defiantely pushing me into the soundproofing so I will have to do that. Anyone have any good recommendations on where to buy some at a decent price?


Unfortunately, soundproofing is not a product you can buy. It requires special construction techniques such as mass and decoupling. Anywhere you cut corners will lead to a less effective result.

You’ll have to except going in that you aren’t going to get 100% isolation, especially from the bass frequencies. That would require you to build something like a free-standing concrete bunker in your basement. So you’ll probably have to forgo late-night movies when company is visiting. 

Your best option for upstairs isolation would be a fully-decoupled basement ceiling. By that I mean there would be no physical contact with the floor joists or anything else above it. The same goes for the adjacent guest bedroom: A free-standing wall decoupled from the existing one. From there you’d use 2-3 layers of 5/8” sheetrock with Green Glue in between, or even better, Quietrock. For the guest bedroom, additional sheetrock could be added to that wall as well. Some absorptive material between the ceiling and upper floor (and the two walls) could/would be used, but I’m less familiar with what that would be. I’m sure the specialist selling Green Glue or Quietrock could advise you there.

As you can see this is a lot of expense and effort to go through if you're leaving in a few years.

Regards,
Wayne


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

Have a read (long) with my HT project (See signature below) don;t make some of the same mistakes I did. Do it right the first time, if need be save up some extra money so you don;t have to re-visit anything. Sound isolation and acoustical control is necessary only if you are trying to achieve a theater like experience (but 100 times better!) and control of sound to adjacent rooms, above or to the sides.

If I had to do it again, I would do the room within a room deal, or at least isolation of walls and two layers of drywall and green glue as well as HVAC sound proofing. A better floor, a stage and different lighting as well as sound proofing ALL electrical / light fixtures. Think fish tank.

Do a LOT of reading here in the forums on others projects and experience. have fun and enjoy the project, and don;t rush things. Believe me its easy said than done ;-)


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> ... From there you’d use 2-3 layers of 5/8” sheetrock with Green Glue in between, or even better, Quietrock.


Perhaps just a small detail, however standard drywall and Green Glue will perform quite a bit better and cost quite a bit less than a pre-damped drywall panel.


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Unfortunately, soundproofing is not a product you can buy. It requires special construction techniques such as mass and decoupling. Anywhere you cut corners will lead to a less effective result.



Sorry, I meant if anyone had any good recommendations of a place online to buy Green Glue. Just did not know if there was one place that most people recommend.

Thanks


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

^^ check the link in Ted's signature (his company) ^^ - that's the place


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

So we are getting closer and closer to finalizing with the contractors so that we can get this basement going.

One thing that I have decided to do is that since we have one room down there that was partially done already (drywall is up at least), I am going to put a mock setup in there of a receiver and speakers/sub and blast a movie like I would watch it. This will give me a good idea if I need to go with the soundproofing.

If I can get away without doing the soundproofing, that will save me about $1500 (between cost of green glue and labor for the 2nd layer of sheetrock)


I have also decided to go with a Da-lite screen. I am currently trying to choose between 2 different screens they have that have the Audio Vision material so that I can put my center channel behind it. I will need to do that due to height restrictions in the room, unless I want my center a foot from the ground or at the ceiling. I would rather pay more for the screen that allows me to put it behind it.

Anyways, the 2 that I have to choose from are a fixed frame screen (I think the 119" costs about $1400) and a electric screen that would cost about $1800. I am leaning towards the fixed screen but I am unsure how to go about mounting it on the wall so that the speaker can go behind it.

Obviously one route is to have a recess into the wall for the speaker. The problem I have with that is when I go to sell the house there will be that recess in the wall. The other option is to build some sort of frame that sticks out about 6" for the screen to mount on. This would also allow me to remove that frame when the time comes to sell and they would have a normal wall.

Any ideas or suggestions on this? Anyone have experience with this sort of situation?

Thanks


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

I would also suggest you look at seymour AV and SMX for accoustically transparent screens. Most people who have an AT screen will build it into a "false" wall that sits 12"-24" from the actual drywall. This will provide a structure to mount your screen, masking, curtains, etc.


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

Even though I am going away from doing the double sheetrock with the green glue in between, I would still like to do something if it is relatively inexpensive in order to help the sound from leaking out of the room.

Right now in the room all the studs are up. They have been up for years since the house was first built so unfortunately I did not have any control over that. 

What I would like to find out is if there is anything that can go between the studs and the sheetrock that will be mounted on those studs to help with sound proofing. I know this is not the ideal situation, nor will it do a great job. However I do not think I need a lot but I figured as long as I could do something it would be better than nothing.

Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Cream said:


> ...is if there is anything that can go between the studs and the sheetrock that will be mounted on those studs to help with sound proofing.


Warning: There are many sites that will want to sell you a damping compound or tape to go on the studs. This is very ineffectual in practical terms. I would advise you not waste your money on these products.

If the studs are 16" OC, you can install wood or metal furring channel perpendicular to the studs every 24". That additional spacing will alow for greater panel flex, increasing isolation. This isn't decoupling but helps. If the studs are at 24" already, then don't bother.

Better would be to use clips and channels on the studs to decouple the drywall from the studs (or joists). Cost would be about $60 for a 12' x 8' wall, just to put it into perspective.

Installing R13 in the walls, R19 in the ceiling is also a good thing.

After that, it's all about the mass, which is why double 5/8" is so great. Since you're not doing double drywall, you should still use 5/8".


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

Thank you very much Ted. I will definately talk to him about the insulation.

One question (and I feel stupid).. unfortunately I know nothing.. and I mean nothing about contruction, etc.. to the point that I am just plain dumb about it.

Would you mind showing me what you mean by the furring channel and the clips/channels for the studs? Also, do you sell that on your site? I would like to get what I can from you for this whole thing.

Thank you again


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Definately no reason to hesitate asking questions. That's what this forum is all about. If you're asking, there are a few dozen others who also are wondering.

Wood furring strips are simply 10' (or so) x 5/8" thick x 3" wide. That varies. Metal furring channel can be seen in this article: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/library/articles/furring_channel_with_resilient_sound_clips/

Both wood and steel furring help but are not true decoupling.

Clips can be introduced to hold that same metal channel. Now you have true decoupling which is directly related to low frequency isolation improvement. http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/products/whisperclip/whisperclip_instructions/

Thanks for the questions!


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