# Spencer Dedicated HT - Gimme your .02 !



## camsauce (Aug 29, 2012)

I'm underway with a new home construction and have some space to do a dedicated HT in the basement. I have some very preliminary plans and would love some input on everything (seating, speaker placement, construction techniques, etc). My goal is to maximize the equipment I already have and build a nice quiet room on a reasonable budget. On to the details and questions:

Room:
15' Wide x 22' Deep x 9' High
~1' soffit dropdown to accomodate HVAC, crown moulding, rope lighting, all that good stuff.
1' Riser (for back row seating)

Seating:
Whatever can fit - I'm thinking 2 rows of 3 recliner seats (berkline et' all) with aisles on both sides. Furniture needs to be comfortable as first priority, gadgetry comes second. 

Projector:
EPSON 8350 

Audio (7.1 setup):
Pioneer 1121 A/V Receiver
Infinity Beta 40 Fronts
Infinity Beta 20 Rears
Infinity Beta 10 Surround Backs
Infinity Beta C250 Center
Infinity SW-12 Subwoofer

Wiring:
14AWG CL2 Monoprice Speaker Wire


Screen:
138" Diagonal 16x9 Acoustically Transparent Seymour AV Screen (DIY)


Questions:
1. Want to do a double door entry into the theater, I understand this will be problematic for soundproofing. *UPDATE: Scratch the double door. Single door. *
2. Thinking DD with GG. Two of the walls are the foundation, anything special needed there? Any differences if I do a first layer with OSB or not? *UPDATE: Going with 1st layer OSB, second layer 5/8" drywall w/ GG in-between.*
3. Insulation - assuming best to do all walls + ceiling, R13? R19? *UPDATE: R13 and R19 will be used.*
4. Putty on gang boxes, worth it?
5. To AT screen or not to AT screen? DIY or purchase? *UPDATE: Going with Seymour AV Center Stage XD screen. DIY.*
6. Speaker Wiring - there are numerous opinions on this. What is the best wiring to use cost/performance wise? *UPDATE: Going with Monoprice speaker wire, CL2 for in-wall use.*
7. Bass traps - no idea what these are. Can someone elaborate?
8. Buttkickers or not? Is there a way to turn them off as needed? Any idea how the Mini LFEs work comparative to the others?
9. Carpet would be used on the floor, any special sound treatments to consider for the floor?
10. Whisper clips worth it?


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

FYI, Berkline went out of business about a year or so ago. However, our friends at Ultimate Home Theater have a few on clearance. Give Roman a shout if you can purchase them now.

http://www.rtheaters.com/


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

With double doors, I wouldn't get too nutty about the other isolation. DD and GG yes. Clips, maybe. Double doors are just almost impossible to get to isolate right unless you do a divider between them which kind of defeats the purpose.

Treatments will absolutely be needed regardless. A rough sketch of the room would help to know what would be appropriate.

Bryan


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Welcome to HTS! :wave:

I am going to break this down a bit.



camsauce said:


> Seating:
> Whatever can fit - I'm thinking 2 rows of 3 recliner seats (berkline et' all) with aisles on both sides. Furniture needs to be comfortable as first priority, gadgetry comes second.


2 rows of 3 seats should fit fine. As Harry said, check out RSH - Roman is a great guy to work with and I think he may still have some Berklines left in stock as well as some other great seating.



camsauce said:


> Projector:
> EPSON 8350


Nice projector - this one was on my short list when I was shopping.



camsauce said:


> Questions:
> 1. Want to do a double door entry into the theater, I understand this will be problematic for soundproofing. Any suggestions on a soundproofing method with this in mind?


I would plan on doing acoustical sealant around all the seams of the frame and use a bit of weather stripping to help fill the door gap. Also, check out a sealing door jamb - they carry them at The SoundProofing Company.



camsauce said:


> 2. Thinking DD with GG. Two of the walls are the foundation, anything special needed there? Any differences if I do a first layer with OSB or not?


Nothing special needed for the foundation walls. I would definitely plan on 2 layers with GG. I used OSB for the 1st layer - there are really no accoustical differences in drywall and OSB and OSB made it so much easier to screw things into. 



camsauce said:


> 3. Insulation - assuming best to do all walls + ceiling, R13? R19?


Yes - R13 in the walls and R19 in the ceiling.



camsauce said:


> 4. Putty on gang boxes, worth it?


I did use putty pads on all my gang boxes. My line of thinking was if I am going to go to the effort of trying to sound isolate the room, I want to try to catch as much as I can. The pads made it much easier to seal around the boxes and gaps.



camsauce said:


> 5. To AT screen or not to AT screen? DIY or purchase?


This is kind of a personal preference. If you want a clean screen wall, go with the AT screen - you have the space to be able to do it. I have read that unless you are real close to it, you cannot see the dimples so there should be little to no difference in PQ.



camsauce said:


> 6. Speaker Wiring - there are numerous opinions on this. What is the best wiring to use cost/performance wise?


Given that you are just starting your build, I would not blow your budget here. Order your speaker wire from Monoprice - it's good cable and very cost effective. Plan to run conduit for all your speaker wire lines so that you can change it later if you wish.



camsauce said:


> 7. Bass traps - no idea what these are. Can someone elaborate?


Bass Traps are in essence insulation surrounded by a supporting frame. Bass tends to get corner loaded so you put bass traps in the corners to handle those reflections.



camsauce said:


> 8. Buttkickers or not? Is there a way to turn them off as needed?


To me, this one is similar to the speaker wire answer - I would run the conduit to put them in later, but these would be something I would add later after I got the room done and saw how my subs impact the room. There are better ways to spend your initial budget IMO.



camsauce said:


> 9. Carpet would be used on the floor, any special sound treatments to consider for the floor?


Not really - the one thing I would suggest here is considering using something like Dri-Core. My HT is in the basement as well and in a room where I had a bit of water in previously. Before I started, I filled in any cracks I could find with sealer. However, given the amount of money invested in the room, spending an extra $400 was well worth it. 



camsauce said:


> 10. Whisper clips worth it?


If you are trying to sound isolate the room, these are definitely worth it. The DD / GG will take care of your highs and mids, but if you do not isolate the walls, once your subs start rattling the walls, that sound will go everywhere.

An example - I have all my equipment set up in another room while I do the HT. I was watching a movie and my wife came downstairs because she thought there was a thunderstorm outside - it transferred all that vibration right through the floor.

Hope this helps and good luck with your build! Oh, and we love pictures! :bigsmile:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

As far as your receiver choice if I remember correctly the Pioneer 1121 A/V Receiver preformed very poorly on bench tests. Have you looked at an Onkyo 809 What is your budget for a receiver?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

5. I reiterate what Joe suggested..An AT screen is ideal for a dedicated theatre..
You will lose about two feet out of the room with an AT screen on a screen wall, but you should still have enough room for two rows..
If you have basic DIY skills, then an AT screen can be made for a lot less than a ready made one..


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Buttkickers will run off their own dedicated power amp, so you have the ability to turn them on or of as you like. I have my subs plugged into a switched outlet so its easy to turn them on or off when I want more or less bass, and I just control the BKs by turning on their amp, I usually only use them for movies. I think I'd like to have each on a dedicated wall switch when we get around to doing the basement, its nice to have that ease of control, and they also don't trickle power that way.


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## camsauce (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks for the all inputs, you guys are awesome! I think I'm going to try and manage the AT screen. I have a diagram of the room layout. My subwoofer is fairly deep so I'm up for ideas on where to put it. After talking more with the wife, I think soundproofing for low frequencies would be best. The home theater space is on the opposite side of the house underneath a kitchen so the highs/mids shouldn't be as much of a problem.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If you are going to soundproof for LFE, the best method is to do a room-in-a-room, but I do not think you have the space to do that. I would check out Whisperclips from the Soundproofing Company and plan on doing DD / GG. With managing your LFE, it is mostly about decoupling as much as possible to limit vibration transferrence. The DD / GG should manage your highs/mids. Is the ceiling in there currently unfinished?

As far as locating the sub, going with the AT screen gives you the perfect place to locate it - behind the screen. You can do the sub crawl to determine where it would be best back there. Better yet, add a second-----or third-----or fourth! :devil: Seriously though, if you go with 2 subs you could locate them inside the AT screen on either side of your center - that is the generally accepted set-up.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Sorry, I forgot to mention the other benefit of an AT screen - the aesthetics of the speakers / subs do not matter as much because you don't see them. Might save a bit of money if the look matters less......


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Your room size is perfect for two rows of seats. A row of three theater seats across takes about 104" or 8ft 6 inch. That leaves a 32" isle on each side based on a 15ft wide room. Depending on the type of seating you use a theater chair reclined takes about 38-48 inches depending on the model. You may need to move the first row up a bit, maybe a foot max. My HT is approximately 15ft by 15ft and I couldnt squeeze a second row so i put a bar height table, 2 ft deep in the back. 
As for the speakers the side speakers may be better off centered between the two rows of seats to give equal side sound, or maybe your using them as rear speakers for the front row of seats??


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

camsauce said:


> 3. Insulation - assuming best to do all walls + ceiling, R13? R19?
> 9. Carpet would be used on the floor, any special sound treatments to consider for the floor?
> 
> 
> ...


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## camsauce (Aug 29, 2012)

Thanks for all the input so far. I'm learning quickly from all of you and would have never guessed there were so many things to consider. I've decided on a couple things from your posts and have updated the layout. I found that the new house has concrete on three of the walls of the theater - I think this is a good thing? 

I have new questions:

- I'd like to place the sub behind the screen. It's a deep box and has a port on the back of it. Is it too close to the wall? Should I orient it horizontally or even place it in one of the front corners (which will be larger columns) ?
- I've seen a lot of screen size/seat position calculators and they have me placing the front row anywhere from 9 to 17 feet. With a 138" diagonal, is 12' going to be too close?
- My front main speakers are of the floorstanding type. Would they be better placed in the corners or flanking the center channel (pictured) ?
- I have the rear surrounds placed between the rows, not sure if this the best spot or not, would love some input. 
- There will likely be the main HVAC line running the width of the room on the screen wall side. When having the registers installed, would it make sense to use flex ducting to bring the registers to the back of the room, above the seating? Or to leave them in the front? Or both?
- No idea where I will put the equipment. I'd like to stay simple with this, not really into the dedicated rack stuff but maybe some shelving in one of the front columns?


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## Cyberfloatie (Jun 1, 2011)

Your room is nearly identical dimensions to mine. I'll be watching this thread with interest to see how it develops as I'm still a few years away from being able to start.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

First of all, I would not do columns in the front corners. You can do false ones with bass absorbers in them and just cover with cloth for the look - but don't make them solid.

The sub is too close to the wall - should be able to just turn it sideways or even move your false wall out a bit further to give you more breathing room back there.

If you can do soffits and drop flex duct that will help with isolation. You don't want supplies and returns both in the rear though. Usually supplies in the front and returns in the rear to pull air across the people and away from the screen. 

Bryan

Don't put any speaker in a corner.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

camsauce said:


> - I have the rear surrounds placed between the rows, not sure if this the best spot or not, would love some input.


If your main seating is going to be the front row, with occasional use of the back row then I would move the side surrounds a little more towards the sides of the front row..


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## camsauce (Aug 29, 2012)

Calling all soundproofing / HVAC experts! 

I'm about 1 1/2 months out of a completed home construction and I finally have some pictures of THE room. I have to contend with a beam and 3 HVAC runs. 

The first shot shows the beam which is on my screenwall side. I'll have to pull a tape to be sure, but I think with the beam and ductwork it is 5-6' from the wall. The two supply lines would be at the back of the theater. 

On the last shot they've put in what appears to be a passive cold air return with the adjacent room. 

Any wizardly advice for how to treat these duct runs and the cold air ?

I'll have to frame up three of the walls -- I'm assuming if I space them apart from the foundation and insulation and use IB3's on the top they'd be decoupled and not need clips/channel? I'm thinking I'll do clips/channel on the ceiling and the common wall with the adjacent room.


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## Greenster (Mar 2, 2013)

Looks like a fun room to build. I would build in a front stage into the room and tie in the ducts into the design
One of my favorite places to get ideas on design is Houzz. Look under media rooms at their web page.


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

Nice space to work with. 

I second Bryan's suggestion of no columns in the front corners and bass traps. 

I would also pull the back row further off the wall. Another 18" and take that depth out of the front row to screen distance. I also suggest you mount the surround speakers up high, to get them further away from seated ears. A surround speaker two feet from a seating position is going to stand out and be distracting to the nearest seat. 

That front ductwork is actually an opportunity.  Soffit it all and you can get your theater's front HVAC sheet metal up there, and treat the underside of the soffit for first reflections to the primary seating row. 
Black light absorbing fabric to cover the soffit, to protect your contrast ratio.

You don't want your subwoofer (or it's port) blowing directly on the screen. The screen will move slightly or ripple. You also want to make sure the speakers are 6" off the backside of the AT screen, otherwise the speakers will timbre shift. 

Dipole side surround speakers would be placed between the rows. Direct radiating speakers should be at the ends of the primary viewing row. The second row is compromised but if you place them midpoint between rows, both rows are compromised.


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