# Help with system setup / Two subs



## MrJulius (Jun 3, 2009)

POST #1:wave:

I’m looking for some help with my setup.

I currently own an Epik Dynasty sub (18” woofer / ported design) which goes very deep but lacks a bit in the mid-bass region. I have this mated to an Antimode 8033.

I have ordered an Epik Empire sub (two 15” woofers / sealed design) excellent mid-bass sub with a steep rolloff at 20HZ.

I would like to integrate these two subs. I currently own an Onkyo 605 with one sub out (RCA). Both of the Epik subs have an RCA input as well as an XLR input.

I ordered a Behringer DCX2496. The thought here is to set the Behringer up so that the Empire will take the mid to high load and the Dynasty will take the low load. I don’t know where this crossover would be. Maybe 30 HZ? 

I would like to set it up like this:
Receiver ---[RCA to XLR cable]---DCX2496 ---[XLR cable]--- sub1 (Dynasty)
......................................................... ---[XLR cable]--- sub2 (Empire)

Is this the preferred setup and wire type?

I would like to incorporate the Antimode in this chain until I can learn how to use REW.

Can I put the Antimode between the receiver and the DCX2496? According to Dspeaker (makers of Antimode) it can be used on two subs at the same time even though there is one input and one output. The Antimode uses RCA only and would require different wire types than those shown above. I suppose that it would look more like this:

Receiver---[RCA cable]---Antimode---[RCA to XLR cable]---DCX2496--- same as above

Any thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
MrJulius


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Too bad you didn’t check with us and post a frequency response graph of your 18” sub before ordering the new one. It’s possible all you needed was a different equalizer. The problem with the Antimode is that it’s a “one trick pony.” Its objective is to eliminate room modes, not give the best-sounding response. You’re stuck with whatever equalization it gives you. Based on some of the graphs I’ve seen it doesn’t always do that great of a job.

That said, there’s no reason to use the Antimode after you get the DCX, since that latter has equalization. However, if you still want to use the its automatic equalization, then your second connection scheme will work.

As far as the best way to integrate the two subs, you should run that past the folks on one of our subwoofer forums.

Regards,
Wayne


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## MrJulius (Jun 3, 2009)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Too bad you didn’t check with us and post a frequency response graph of your 18” sub before ordering the new one. It’s possible all you needed was a different equalizer. The problem with the Antimode is that it’s a “one trick pony.” Its objective is to eliminate room modes, not give the best-sounding response. You’re stuck with whatever equalization it gives you. Based on some of the graphs I’ve seen it doesn’t always do that great of a job.
> 
> That said, there’s no reason to use the Antimode after you get the DCX, since that latter has equalization. However, if you still want to use the its automatic equalization, then your second connection scheme will work.
> 
> ...


Wayne,
Thanks for getting back so quick. I don't have a graph of the Dynasty by itself, but there are more than a couple of people who set theirs up properly and felt that there wasn't enough mid-bass slam. I guess that it was tuned more for the deeper stuff. I know that with every setup YMMV and their are a lot of variables in getting that mid-bass slam; room size, shape, etc.

I am trying to augment the deeper sub with the mid-bass sub and see how that works out in cleaning up the bass a bit.

I have been itching to add another sub anyway so I pulled the trigger on the Empire. I had read about more than a few problems in setting up dissimilar subs, ported with sealed, etc, and I also read that the DCX was a good way to get different subs to get along with each other because of the crossovers and the ability to EQ each one separately.

I was hoping that someone watching this thread has used a DCX2496 to send different crossovers settings to two different subs in an attempt to have two subs cover the full bass range.

The Antimode definitely helped with the boominess of the Dynasty in my "room". When I get the DCX I want to set the crossovers for the subs first, see how that sounds, run the Antimode, see how that sounds. Then spend some time learning how to use REW and how to properly set up the DCX filters so that I can remove the Antimode from the chain.

MrJulius
Brad


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

MrJulius said:


> Wayne,
> Thanks for getting back so quick. I don't have a graph of the Dynasty by itself, but there are more than a couple of people who set theirs up properly and felt that there wasn't enough mid-bass slam. I guess that it was tuned more for the deeper stuff. I know that with every setup YMMV and their are a lot of variables in getting that mid-bass slam; room size, shape, etc.
> 
> I am trying to augment the deeper sub with the mid-bass sub and see how that works out in cleaning up the bass a bit.
> ...


Hopefully soon (a couple months) i'll be doing somthing similar as the DCX or something from Behringer will be what i'm gonna try. I have two 15"s and a soon to be DIY 12" that i'm gonna blend together.
I've gotta watch this thread as i'm curious to what you come up with. Good luck to ya, Bambino.:T


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## MrJulius (Jun 3, 2009)

Here is an update I posted at AVS: The reference to the "Evil Plan" was the mating of an Epik Dynasty (huge, ported sub) with an Epik Empire (smaller sealed sub) and using the Behringer DCX2496 as a X-over.


------------------------------
Well folks, the "Evil Plan" is a...not so fast.

Here's how it went down.

I unpacked the Empire..dern thing weighs as much as the Dynasty. I plugged her in just to make sure that everything was functioning well. I had the gain around noon time and I played parts of a couple of songs. OK, all is well.

I set the receiver to 0dB for the sub out. My version of Audyssey does not set filters for the sub.

I got out the test tone CD and level matched the subs around 85 dB's, at my main LP, one at a time via the sub cable. The Empire's gain knob is now at 11 O'clock and oddly enough the Dynasty is just past noon.

I wired everything together through the Behringer DCX2496 and fired up the system. I jacked the laptop into the Behringer via a 30 foot USB repeater cable and offloaded the two presets that I had already set up.

One preset has no X-over and no filters and is used as a pass-through. The other preset is a X-over at 40 Hz with a 12 dB roll-off (Butterworth). Basically setting up the Dynasty as the really low sub and the Empire to handle everything else.

I set the "pass-through" preset and listened to parts of a couple of songs. Yikes. Fairly messy. Bass was running all over the place. Definitely overlapping, boomy and muddy. This was of course without any EQ.

I set the "Epik 40" preset and used test tones to make sure that everything was coming out of the correct sub. Wow, just as I had hoped. The X-over was working perfectly. I ran tones from 10-100 in 5Hz increments. I also ran some sweeps, 1Hz-120Hz. I am a couple of dB's high in the lower regions up to about 80 or 85 Hz. This is probably due to integration of the mains. I'll work on this.

I now hooked up the Antimode upstream of the Behringer, checked that all was working properly, then I let the Antimode run it's sweeps and set filters. The theory here is that the Antimode will now properly apply filters that will, for the most part, affect the sub that needs them instead of trying to apply filters for two very different subs at the same time, at the same frequencies.

OK, test time.

The first song I tested was Black Eyed Peas, Boom Boom Pow. I have heard this song at least a hundred times with my prior setup and it has bass at a few different levels.

For the first time EVER, I got the slam

Wow, right in the chest. Tight, tight bass. I thought that my heart was resetting. I'm thrilled. I'm impressed.

One of the coolest things is operating my new bass management system 18 feet away with my laptop at my LP. Real time changes...Cool. Mute a sub, mute them both, add dB's, subtract dB's, all on the fly with instantaneous changes to the sound without having to go in and out of menus while the music stops. Me likey.

Another neat thing about the software is that when you are synced with the Behringer you see which sub kicks in when. I saw some interesting things during music and HT.

I played a couple of scenes from The Dark Knight. I know very well how these sound on my setup. Another WOW here.

I ended up dropping each sub 1 dB. Seems to be the spot for now.

On Tuesday I will have my REW equipment here. I'll take Tuesday to try to get REW up and running and hopefully I will be able to run some sweeps and find out what's going on here.

I know that I'll have a bunch of tweaking to do but my first impressions here is that the "Evil Plan" was an absolute success in my situation. as always, YMMV.

MrJulius


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## MrJulius (Jun 3, 2009)

How many posts 'till I can post a link?

Thanks
MrJulius


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Generally an hour after you have made 5 posts.


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## MrJulius (Jun 3, 2009)

JohnM said:


> Generally an hour after you have made 5 posts.


Thanks. I'll try this again.

Here is my first REW graph. This is with the Antimode upstream from the Behringer DCX2496. No DCX2496 filters are engaged. I crossed the two subs over at 40 Hz:










This is the same graph with 1/3 octave smoothing:










The transition at 40 Hz looks pretty good to me (I think).:dontknow:

Should I post this on the REW specific forum for advice?

Thanks for any help.

MrJulius


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

The graphs look fine to me. :T

Regards,
Wayne


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## louvain (Oct 21, 2010)

Well, transition at 40 Hz looks good.


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