# Even Sound Quality At The Listening Position



## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

I have been using REW and my laptop and the M-Audio Soundcard to take measurements of my room for a while now, I have the room sounding really good at the LP. Since that is where the mic is when I take measurements, what I have noticed is that anywhere other than the LP the bass is more dominant. Just standing up from the chair the bass becomes more noticable. Standing directly behind the LP there is more bass, or anywhere else in the room. This doesn't bother me to the point of I need to change it but, I was thinking that if I took more measurements with the mic higher up than where I have been taking measurements from I could possibly balance out this sound... I am thinking of taking measurements with the mic raised to the point between my ear height standing 63" vs 45" LP level. So moving the mic to 54" would be midway between the two any thoughts???


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

jcmusic said:


> I have the room sounding really good at the LP.


Sounds like you are saying the LP sounds good until you hear more bass elsewhere, then you have doubts. If it sounds good at the LP, the goal is met, and a different sound elsewhere - which is inevitable in real rooms - should not matter.

The acoustical relationship between two points in the room is fixed at a given frequency until you change the room - move a speaker or sub, move the LP, change the acoustics, etc. By moving the mic to where there is more bass, your room correction device will compensate by giving you less bass, which will REDUCE the bass at the LP.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey AC, 
Thanks for replying I only use two Eq's one for the mains and one for the subs, no other room correction device is used. So moving the mic will just give me a different curve of which i can make adjustments as I did with current curve I have. Does this make sense? I am thinking I might like a little more bass at the LP, which is easy by turning the subs up some but; doing that increases the bass through out the room and then the rest of the room has way too much bass....


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hey jc,

In any room, especially those with symmetrical dimensions, bass levels are most prominent at the boundaries, with the dead center of the room being something of a “bass hole” where bass levels are the lowest. So basically, the only places you can expect consistent bass, relative to a given position, is that exact position on the opposite side of the room.

With that background, it sounds like your listening position is pretty close to the dead center of the room. If that’s the case, anywhere you move from there is going to get more pronounced bass. As Wayne mentioned, there’s nothing you can do about it, so just tune the system for the LP.

This is why I like my living room. With its open floor plan and cathedral ceiling, I don’t have this problem. 

Regards,
Wayne


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

jcmusic said:


> Hey AC,
> Thanks for replying I only use two Eq's one for the mains and one for the subs, no other room correction device is used. So moving the mic will just give me a different curve of which i can make adjustments as I did with current curve I have. Does this make sense? I am thinking I might like a little more bass at the LP, which is easy by turning the subs up some but; doing that increases the bass through out the room and then the rest of the room has way too much bass....


That is a common strategy - EQ the system and then turn up the subs to taste. Yes, it will make the bass even louder throughout the room, but the LP is what counts, so no harm, assuming you're not in a apartment or a structure where your "loud bass" becomes someone else's earthquake.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

AC you and Wayne are both correct, I was just thinking that if I moved the mic up half way between where I took the original measurements from and my ear height when standing; that I could eq as I did originally and maybe get a more even bass response... I may try it just to see if my theory will work, or I can just turn up the subs as you say and enjoy!!!:T


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Sounds like a plan. Let us know your results.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

Hey AC will do but, I won't get to it until the weekend.


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

Have you ever thought about using bass traps in your room to even out the overoll response of the room? If done right it should allow for a wider sweet spot over more seats within the room.

My room is bad and the difference was night and day even my wife could tell the difference.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

Bass traps already in place along with FRZ Panels!!!


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

Well I tried placing the mic in a higher position the results were different than expected, so it will need more work. So for now I will just turn up the subs until I can locate them then back off a little.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Interesting.... Thanks for the report.


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

Can you move the traps around and measure? Sometimes a trap works better in one location then a other.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

AudiocRaver said:


> Interesting.... Thanks for the report.


AC I think something happened to my external soundcard, I took a few measurements no problems then the next few time it started to make a funny noise when I started the measuement!!! It wasn't in the system just the soundcard interfaze. It would start making a crackeling noise almost like dust in a pot!!!


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

phazewolf said:


> Can you move the traps around and measure? Sometimes a trap works better in one location then a other.


No the traps can't be moved, and this is not a trap issue this is about the Eqing of the room.


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

The reason I asked is because when I setup the traps in my room they worked better in some locations then other's. 

Think about it this way if your having a issue with a null that is caused by the rear wall and don't treat that wall then the issue will still be there.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

I am not having an issue with a null, you would have to go back and read alot of my earlier post to see where I am and what I am trying to achieve. The only issue I have per say is that the bass is louder in all other parts of the room except the LP, and that is because the room is tuned to the LP.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

OK I found a way to achieve what I was trying to do. The trick is really simple I just have to keep the gain down low until I am sitting in the LP. Then turn it up and then the bass is there in spades, problem before was I was hearing it before being in the LP and got accustomed to the bass out of the LP, so when I got in it the bass seemed to be lacking .


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

How are you adjusting the sub volume? Does your receiver have the capability to change the sub level from the remote?

Regards,
Wayne


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

Hi Wayne,
No reciever this is a 2 channel only system amp and pre amp, I do have a remote for the volume. The subs are manually adjusted I have go to each one and do it on the back of the sub!!!


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

I thought that might be the case. Sounds like you’re a good candidate for one of these.









Regards, 
Wayne


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

jcmusic said:


> OK I found a way to achieve what I was trying to do. The trick is really simple I just have to keep the gain down low until I am sitting in the LP. Then turn it up and then the bass is there in spades, problem before was I was hearing it before being in the LP and got accustomed to the bass out of the LP, so when I got in it the bass seemed to be lacking .


An interesting variation on "expectation bias." You heard the bass decreasing as you sat down in the LP and that made you believe it was "not enough." Isn't the brain a wonderful little trickster sometimes?


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

AudiocRaver said:


> An interesting variation on "expectation bias." You heard the bass decreasing as you sat down in the LP and that made you believe it was "not enough." Isn't the brain a wonderful little trickster sometimes?


Yes AudiocRaver,
It was a little perplexing at first but, then i realized what was going on. With the room being tuned for the LP I have alot more bass else where in the room than in the LP. So as I said now I have turned up the subs and wait till I am in the chair to turn up the volume, and turn it down before I get out of the chair. It's a little work but I have a remote for the volume!!!


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

My room is the same. Drove me crazy(still once in awhile), til I trained my brain to ignore it while close to the LP. I do still love making something in the corner of my kitchen when some huge bass hits. The modes there can highlight bass like crazy. Just for fun though. It's even better when guests don't expect it!!!


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

This was why I asked about installing more traps because as I put more traps in the room it allowed me to move around and hear less holes or peaks in the response of the room. 

What really helped the most was more subs place around the room to smooth things out.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

phazewolf said:


> This was why I asked about installing more traps because as I put more traps in the room it allowed me to move around and hear less holes or peaks in the response of the room.
> 
> What really helped the most was more subs place around the room to smooth things out.


Good point.


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

My room is like a bass minefield. With each step you never know what you will hear but you know when your at the money seat because there is less bass then everywhere else. Traps helped that a some but you need a LOT of them to really start to get you there and that was kind of my point. 

There are lots of people out there that know more then me on this but to really start to effectively treat a room your talking like 20% need to be treated to get great results and we're not talking just 4 surfaces here were talking the combined of all 6.

So on 20x20x8 room you have 2 area's that are 20x20 and 4 that are 20x8. So 20% of that surface total would need something. That is why in my eyes why you have a very hard time trapping bass and coupled with that bass is hard to trap to start makes it a nightmare.


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