# Equipment Recommedations for newbie



## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

Hi I am setting up a HT area in basement. I am currently finishing my basement and I have set aside 1 corner that will be my HT area. It is @ 15 x 18 and will be open in rear to a bar area. Based on info I have been able to pull from this forum and others I have complied the following list for a budget home theater setup. The theater will be used primarily for TV, Sports and movie watching. I am still deciding between a couple of models on each component. Please let me know what you think of the list and make recommendations on each component.

Epson 8700UB package with 100" screen - Vis Apex - $2255
Epson 8350 package with 100" screen - Vis Apex - $1544

Onkyo 708 - acc4less - refurb - $370
Onkyo 609 - acc4less - refurb - $320

Pioneer - SP C21, SP FS551s, SP BS21s - Total - $430
Infinity - PC 350, PC362s, P143BKs - $680

Woofer - BIC F12?? - $182.00
?????

Any help on deciding between the above or possible better suggestions are welcomed.

Thanks,

Scott


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Personally the 8700 is the projector you want to go with I would also consider the Panasonic AE7000.
The Onkyo 708 is by far the better choice simply due to having pre-outs allowing external amplification is needed down the road.
For speakers Im not sure I would go with either of the ones you listed, I would also up your budget and look at something a little better given the size of your room neither of the ones listed will be very good. 
For a sub I have never been a fan of BIC if your looking to have good deep bass in the space you have you would need to go with at least this one from Elemental Designs, this A3S250

If your looking for a great speaker and sub package look at one's from SVS is impossible to beat.


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## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

Can I get a SVS system with a sub for $1200? It seems their cheapest sub is nearly $700?

Also what is b-pole surrounds? They seeme to be much more costly. Would they be worth it in a HT room that does not have 4 walls?

I am willing to spend a little more ($1500)if I get something that is top quality and will be that much better than the ones I listed. Not sure if my basement will be set acoustically for the more expensive speakers to make that much of a difference?

Any direction will be much appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Bi-pole speakers are designed in a triangle with speakers on two faces of the triangle. This sends sound out in two directions. if your only going with a 5.1 setup this is a great choice.
Its hard to find good speakers with a small budget for a room your size. Alot of people like these Behringer B2030P speakers  for $108 as well and would be a good choice if your really stuck. (Remeber these are a per speaker price)


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I agree with Tona on truly everything. I will point out that some x08 Series Onkyo's were affected with defective IDE (Serial) Cable that causes the Remote Control not to work, cycling of Sources, and eventually the unit can become unresponsive. However, it is by no means all of them and the fact you are looking at Refurbished AVR's gives you an even better chance of the literally couple Dollar Cable being replaced.

The 708 offers Preamp Outputs and Audyssey MultEQ which is huge. (609 offers Audyssey 2EQ) Moreover, it is more powerful. The Video Processing in the 609 is superior and many prefer the new Industrial Design.
Also, another Subwoofer to consider is the Dayton Sub-120 which is available for around $150 and is a stellar value.
Cheers,
JJ


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> The Onkyo 708 is by far the better choice simply due to having pre-outs allowing external amplification is needed down the road.


A Yamaha 867 or A-800 is $400 and includes pre-outs. That is another $150 towards a sub vs the 708 at $550. Personally not a fan of Onkyo with how hot they run and the recent quality control problems they have experienced.



tonyvdb said:


> For speakers Im not sure I would go with either of the ones you listed, I would also up your budget and look at something a little better given the size of your room neither of the ones listed will be very good.


A friend of mine has the 362's and the 351 Center. I would encourage the OP to pick them up vs the Sony's. They are a great value if you have a budget to stick to.



tonyvdb said:


> For a sub I have never been a fan of BIC if your looking to have good deep bass in the space you have you would need to go with at least this one from Elemental Designs, this A3S250


Disagree with you on the BIC. The PL200/H-200 is a good value sub. Agree with on looking at the A3S250. Again if budget restricted get two BIC H-100's. 



tonyvdb said:


> If your looking for a great speaker and sub package look at one's from SVS is impossible to beat.


I haven't heard the packages from SVS but they most likely perform. Their compact (bookshelf) speakers look cheesy. Anything I would consider from them is easily in the $3K range from them.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hmmm, not really getting where your coming from jinjuku,
The Onkyo 708 is $370 so less than the Yamaha you mention and has higher power output all channels driven. Yamaha has its issues as well. The HDCP HDMI handshake failure just to name one. Onkyo sells twice if not three times as many receivers as any other manufacturer so these "issues" you talk about are exaggerated to say the least and has been talked about far too much. I like Yamaha and would never discourage someone from buying them but Onkyo for about the past 5 years has been on top for features and power output ratings (bang for buck).

SVS is by no means "cheesy" and blows away the competition in quality and craftsmanship. Everything is made and assembled in North America using high quality crossovers, tweeters and drivers. They sell only on line so no brick and mortar cost overhead. If you have never heard them don't knock them.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> Hmmm, not really getting where your coming from jinjuku,
> The Onkyo 708 is $370 so less than the Yamaha you mention and has higher power output all channels driven.


I personally in good conscience can not recommend refurbish Onkyo. I was talking New. The A-800 with a 2 year warranty is $400 with pre-outs. Just a difference of opinion and approach. 

Not sure what Onkyo selling more units has to do with it. GM sells more cars than BMW.



tonyvdb said:


> SVS is by no means "cheesy" and blows away the competition in quality and craftsmanship. Everything is made and assembled in North America using high quality crossovers, tweeters and drivers. They sell only on line so no brick and mortar cost overhead. If you have never heard them don't knock them.


I said I thought the bookshelf from looked cheesy. I said nothing about their performance. I think with the Primus the OP can get a lot more speaker for the $$. That is my only point. 

I simply don't see the $700 5.0 setup from SVS clobbering the Primus for HT duty. I believe it would be the other way around.


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## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Personally the 8700 is the projector you want to go with I would also consider the Panasonic AE7000.
> The Onkyo 708 is by far the better choice simply due to having pre-outs allowing external amplification is needed down the road.
> For speakers Im not sure I would go with either of the ones you listed, I would also up your budget and look at something a little better given the size of your room neither of the ones listed will be very good.
> For a sub I have never been a fan of BIC if your looking to have good deep bass in the space you have you would need to go with at least this one from Elemental Designs, this A3S250
> ...


Tony,

I am deciding between the Infinity Primus I listed as well as the SVS 5.0 with bi-pole surrounds. You mention my room is too big for the Infinity or Pioneer models it just seems that SVS with the bookshelf speakers in front would produce less sound?

Still have not decided on woofer - may save for the SVS SB12 or go with 2 cheaper subs - Lava or BIC. May just get 1 of the Elemental Design.

I am more interested in what to do with fronts and surrounds.

Thanks,
Scott


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## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

Also may consider these speakers if still available with some Def Tech surrounds. 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...0581-definitive-technology-speakers-sale.html

Anybody know much about these Def Tech vs the SVS or Infinity Primus?

Thanks,


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> For speakers Im not sure I would go with either of the ones you listed, I would also up your budget and look at something a little better given the size of your room neither of the ones listed will be very good.


snoopcat,

This opinion seems based on fanboyism rather than on true product performance or actual personal experience. The Primus line will do an _excellent_ job in a room of those dimensions, I base _this_ opinion on personal experience and the numerous user and pro reviews available. Obviously, yes, you _may_ get better performance if you _spend more_ but dont think for a moment that the Primus line wont do great for your budget and room dimensions. The Primus line represents one of the best values on the market today and dont let _anyone_ tell you differently.

Heres the good on the Primus line:

Very accurate and very detailed, entry-level audiophile grade.
Excellent power handling and easy to drive.
Good frequency response.
Remarkable imaging, IMO its their strong suit.

And the Bad:

Highs can be fatiguing after extended listening sessions, not uncommon for the price.
Cabinet interaction prevents lows from being nice and tight.
The bookshelf speakers and 350 center are physically large speakers, larger than you would think.


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

snoopcat said:


> Also may consider these speakers if still available with some Def Tech surrounds.
> 
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...0581-definitive-technology-speakers-sale.html
> 
> ...



That looks like a pretty good deal. I have the CLR2002 as my center channel and it does an excellent job. I haven't heard the BP6B towers but I have read some good things about them. Total those 3 are about $1200 MSRP.

Good luck!


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## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

I am getting closer on deciding on my components for my home theater set up. Need a couple of suggestions. I am leaning toward the Onkyo 709 as a receiver which is currently $600 new $500 refurb. Should I wait until Black Friday for a better deal? I am not sure that the they have sales or not. Also I could wait until after x-mas for that matter.

I am still going back and forth on projectors Epson 8350($1200) vs Epson 8700UB($1900 included xtra bulb). Just not sure that I can justify the xtra $700?

As far speakers I have extended my budget. I am considering the following 2 options: I will be using these for 90% movies, sports and TV.

SVS - SCS-02 5.1 sytem with surrounds and the PB12-nsd - @1950
or
Elemental Designs new Cinema series - ED(6)c with surrounds and 2 A2-300 subs - @1950

Any suggestions or guidance welcomed.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I would wait till Black friday and see, I dont think waiting till after Christmas would really be any different otherwise you might as well wait till next spring and so on.
I am partial to SVS, Higly recommended by many I dont think you can find a better system for that price.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

snoopcat said:


> I am getting closer on deciding on my components for my home theater set up. Need a couple of suggestions. I am leaning toward the Onkyo 709 as a receiver which is currently $600 new $500 refurb. Should I wait until Black Friday for a better deal? I am not sure that the they have sales or not. Also I could wait until after x-mas for that matter.
> 
> I am still going back and forth on projectors Epson 8350($1200) vs Epson 8700UB($1900 included xtra bulb). Just not sure that I can justify the xtra $700?
> 
> ...


Hello,
I would watch out for Newegg this Weekend as they almost always drop the prices on AVR's then. The $479 AC4L Price is mighty tempting as well. I know it is listed as $489, but I spoke to the Owner Mark and he said he would sell the 709 to HTS Members for another $10 off. And you never know, you could always ask if he would sell it for even less than that. I would mention that you were seriously considering waiting until Black Friday or even Christmas for an even lower price on a non Refurbished Model and see what he offers. Never hurts to ask...
Cheers,
JJ


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## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

Newegg has the Onkyo 709 for $580 shipped. Should I just pull the trigger now? This seems to be the best price I have seen. Not sure if I am going to find lower in the next couple of months.

As far as the projector - do you think Visual Apex will run deals on either the 8350 or 8700UB? If I can get a little better deal on the 8700UB I will purchase but as of now the $700 difference will be hard to swallow. Opinions?

Also does anybody have an opinion on the Elemental Designs Cinema series or the CHT SHO-10 speakers? They both have the compression driven horns. Just curious what experiences anybody has had with these types of speakers.

Thanks


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

I think the 8700 has a very good reon video processor, it may have other upgrades but that looks to be the big one and likely will always fetch a sizable premium over the 8350 even if they have deals down the road. I also think amazon is $70 cheaper on the 8350. Hope this helps.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

snoopcat said:


> Also does anybody have an opinion on the Elemental Designs Cinema series or the CHT SHO-10 speakers?


I've heard the SHO-10s in my buddy's HT set-up, both on their own and A/B'd against his old Axiom M60s (before he ditched the Axioms). The SHOs had a *huge* soundstage, they were less bright than the M60s and, unlike the M60s - which became shrill and fatiguing at louder volume levels - they could be played stupid loud without exhibiting any signs of stress. I was impressed. 

This coming weekend, I'll be taking delivery of a pair of SHO-10s. I'm really curious to hear them in my HT room, and A/B'd against my Paradigm Studio 60s.


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## snoopcat (Oct 12, 2011)

Let me know how they work out. I am leaning toward the Ed 6's due ti size but and price but may be able to fit the SHO-10's.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Seriously audition and research a Pioneer or Denon AVR before going w Onkyo... much experience in the field replacing Onkyo's that just dont live up to the hype or have issues or fail all-together..... lddude:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

RTS100x5 said:


> Seriously audition and research a Pioneer or Denon AVR before going w Onkyo... much experience in the field replacing Onkyo's that just dont live up to the hype or have issues or fail all-together..... lddude:


Please refrain from spreading false information. Failures in Onkyo units is not higher than any other manufacturers if you factor in that Onkyo sells far more than the others do. I own one of the so called bad Onkyo receivers that was apparently plagued with issues and Ive never had one hickup yet and I know I am not the only one.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

I do not intend to falsify any information ever.... the resent facts of Onkyo's AVR issues are well known in the industry, though they continue to be a popular brand..... My company sells them along with Denon and Pioneer and I can state without question that more Onkyo's have problems than the other 2 brands....its not a matter of opinion..... the failure rates are higher comparatively....yes the other brands have had problems but not as often over the last 5 yrs.....


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

snoopcat said:


> Let me know how they work out. I am leaning toward the Ed 6's due ti size but and price but may be able to fit the SHO-10's.


Here's the key excerpt from my "review" post (*eljay's SHO-10s and WAF-3s*) on the CHT forum


> Then came the SHOs and the S60s. We ran a few movie clips and some music through one and then the other (and sometimes back again).
> - The S60s were sweet and open/airy, with a bit more "fullness" to the sound (they sounded "bigger") than the SHOs. They were also a bit brighter, but at loud volumes that brightness occasionally translated to a bit of "sizzle" in the higher frequencies.
> - By contrast, the SHOs were more neutral-sounding, the highs were "tamed" but not muted or muffled, and they could be pushed hard without ever losing composure.
> - Both speakers offered precise, detailed audio and wide soundstages.
> ...


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