# Do you treat a room to increase bass



## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

do you treat a room to increase the low output or just to reduce reflections


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

You can treat a room for a spesific problem or problems. There could be a null or a peak in the bass, and/or the room can be to "bright" or "dull". Each problem has it's own solution.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

It's not so much about increasing low output as cleaning it up, making it a flat even response. Though, I suppose if you get rid of a null, you'd be talking about increasing low output, at least in that frequency band.


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## Ethan Winer (Jul 21, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> do you treat a room to increase the low output or just to reduce reflections


You already got the right answers, but I can clarify further.

_All_ room acoustic problems are caused by reflections. This includes bass peaks, bass nulls, excess echo and ambience, flutter echo, and modal ringing. All of these problems are caused by reflections.

Scary, eh? :dumbcrazy:

But once you understand this, it's easy to see how simple the solutions are. :heehee:

--Ethan


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## toecheese (May 3, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> do you treat a room to increase the low output or just to reduce reflections


There's not much you can do to increase low output- I guess you could replace drywall with cement (more reflections). 

What you're trying to do is clean the sound, and that may mean reducing some reflections.


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## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

I have plenty of output just trying to clarify why I would treat my room I do have a null in the middle but when I put two subs one about 8inches from the corner on each side of the front wall it impoved the bass in all listing areas even the middle of the seat 

If it is very quiet in my room and I yell or clap I hear a ringing reverb in the room, is that a example of what I need to correct?


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

jwhite8086 said:


> If it is very quiet in my room and I yell or clap I hear a ringing reverb in the room, is that a example of what I need to correct?


Yes, it seems that you need to add materials in your room to absorb the reflexions. Thick carpets on the floor/walls are an easy way to test reflexion removal without spending too much money. Can you quickly describe your room, its furniture and wall materials?
I have a bit of the same problem and I am trying to fix it by using some acoustic plates (120cm x 60cm). Easy to move around.

Be careful not to overdo it! Having too much sound absorption material is not better than too little. I heard of some people who blew up their tweeter due to this :thumbsdown:


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Which tweeter?


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

I truly don't remember. I think it was a tweeter from a pair B&W speakers (front speakers) but I'm not 100% sure.


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## Ethan Winer (Jul 21, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> when I put two subs one about 8inches from the corner on each side of the front wall it impoved the bass in all listing areas even the middle of the seat


If you measure your room at high resolution using ETF or REW, you'll immediately understand exactly why room treatment and bass traps are so important. :R



> If it is very quiet in my room and I yell or clap I hear a ringing reverb in the room, is that a example of what I need to correct?


Yes, exactly. That and bass peaks and nulls and ringing. The same ringing happens at bass frequencies, but you can't test that with hand claps. For that you need software.

--Ethan


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## Bob_99 (May 8, 2006)

> I heard of some people who blew up their tweeter due to this


OK. I'm just going to have to display my ignorance here but how do you blow a tweeter by putting in room treatment? Gently now, I've had a rough day.

Bob


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Bob_99 said:


> OK. I'm just going to have to display my ignorance here but how do you blow a tweeter by putting in room treatment? Gently now, I've had a rough day.
> 
> Bob


I think that instead of using rigid fiberglass, his friend actually just created a black hole with a gravitational pull so great that even sound could not escape. And then, t compensate, turned his system up really loud and blew the tweeter.

I think for most of us without black holes,it's probably not a concern.


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## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

Im in an apartment right now any thing I can to to impove my acoustics thats cheap doesent damage the walls and ..eh... will not make my wife yell at me for doing it.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm renting a townhouse (glorified apartment) and have hung 9 framed panels, french cleat style, single 3/8" hole for the plastic molly for each. A little spackle and paint will take care of that when I move out.

...or skip the frame, cover with fabric and 3m adhesive, and hang with wire and a nail. Or construct a frame that will allow you to lean them against a wall (see real traps for inspiration, or just buy from there).

Bass traps you can just straddle corners with, no fixing to the wall necessary.

If you're not willing to go that far, by lots of plush, fabric covered furniture, get thick, heavy curtains, and invite lots of people over. People are excellent sound absorbers (try having a couple stand at your first reflection points  ).


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## Bob_99 (May 8, 2006)

> I think that instead of using rigid fiberglass, his friend actually just created a black hole with a gravitational pull so great that even sound could not escape. And then, t compensate, turned his system up really loud and blew the tweeter.
> 
> I think for most of us without black holes,it's probably not a concern.


onder:

:wow:

:thankyou:

Bob


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

Bob_99 said:


> OK. I'm just going to have to display my ignorance here but how do you blow a tweeter by putting in room treatment? Gently now, I've had a rough day.


This is something I have heard from a friend, not actually seen :no:

What I was told is that the room was so full of damping materials (on walls, ceiling and floor) that the highs (and part of the medium freqs) had to be much higher than the rest of the frequencies to sound ok. Once testing and playing at high volume (maybe really high volume), the guy smelled like something had burned and heard that something went wrong. The speakers were not really functioning correctly after that.
The reason I was told was that there was too much acoustic material in his listening room.

Do you really think that's impossible ?


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## Ethan Winer (Jul 21, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> Im in an apartment right now any thing I can to to impove my acoustics thats cheap doesent damage the walls and ..eh... will not make my wife yell at me for doing it.


Can't help you with the wife :hide: but these are easy to use and don't have to attach to the walls:











We also have smaller models. :rofl2:


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## drf (Oct 22, 2006)

jerome said:


> This is something I have heard from a friend, not actually seen :no:
> 
> What I was told is that the room was so full of damping materials (on walls, ceiling and floor) that the highs (and part of the medium freqs) had to be much higher than the rest of the frequencies to sound ok. Once testing and playing at high volume (maybe really high volume), the guy smelled like something had burned and heard that something went wrong. The speakers were not really functioning correctly after that.
> The reason I was told was that there was too much acoustic material in his listening room.
> ...


Sorry for chiming in so late, Only just read this thread. I would say it is highly unlikely that the room treatment was to blame, simply because the B&W have pretty good disperson on their tweeters. The only way I could see that room treatments would play some part in the demise of his tweeters are if your friends hearing was severely diminished above 4K. In other words, if he can hardly hear the higher freq' without the peaks and ringing caused by room gain. But remember also that increasing the power to the point that your tweeters blow would easily put the woofers in the danger zone.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

I blew a tweeter listening to GWAR. Pretty sweet, huh? I left the room to check for major vibration in the rest of the house and came back to a popped dome and ferrofluid running down the fron of my cabinet. I need not mention the smell.


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

What kind of speaker did you use ? How loud did you play ?


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

The tweet I blew was in a Definitive Technology ProTower 400. And I played very, very loud. I was running my Denon AVR-3803 pretty close to full volume. I dont think it was just the level that killed it, I think it was the amount of time. It simply overheated. Not really a quick pop from too much power or a major clip, it just burned up.


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

Could it be that you receiver was saturating ? Did you hear that the sound was kind of different when playing this high ?
Saturating your amplifier over quite some time could be a possible explanation for why you blew up your tweeter IMO.


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## drf (Oct 22, 2006)

Over powering a tweeter will do more damage than clipping (saturating) an amp. If the amp is clipping, then it is very possible that the tweeters were already being pushed too hard. It is therefore quite possible to destroy a tweeter without hearing the effects of clipping. 


However, becuase this thread is going of topic I thought I'd post this link and try to bring it back:

http://www.antonine-education.co.uk/physics_a2/module_4/Topic_5/topic_5.htm

This link does a very good job of explaining how sound waves travel and interact to either increase or decrease the SPL.


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