# Speaker spikes. Or not?



## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm at the budget end of the audio spectrum and have relied on cheap tweaks to attempt to pull the most out of my system. My main speakers are tall thin columns and I've secured 18" square concrete slabs under them to provide more mass and to prevent them toppling (cats).

The floor is a concrete slab with high quality carpet and pad so the speakers still are not solidly coupled to the slab. Are spikes worth using in this scenario?


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

I don't think I'd bother. The concrete-carpet-pad-concrete sandwich is probably pretty effective at dampening a lot of vibration, since there's a lot of mass there. As long as the slab floor is reasonably thick (4" ish) and doesn't have voids under it, it won't really resonate very well under normal circumstances. My gut reaction is that for the time you'll spend getting them secured to the base plates, you won't really see a big difference in sound quality. 

What make/model are the speakers? Do they have LF drivers down low? 

If you DO hear or feel a lot of vibration in the floor, I think I'd try some medium-density foam under the concrete. It will be a little more pricey, but WAY easier to place rather than mounting the spikes into the base plates. If you put the spikes between the towers and the base plates, you'll defeat the Anti-Cat purpose of the plates.


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## daniel (Dec 31, 2006)

I would use spikes to add stability, save my expensive rug and hopefully have better sound. No need for golden audiophile approved spikes. (They have to support your speaker weight).


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

I'm not having vibration problems. The slab is solid and void free. I'm looking more for stability - the speakers rock slightly when pushed as they are sat on thick carpet so I suspect they also move when playing music, which means the sound must be less than optimal.

I'm planning on experimenting with some spikes that certainly aren't audiophile gold but will be mechanically sturdy.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

What size spikes are you thinking of? I have a set I don't use anymore. Pay for shipping and there yours if you can use them. I have these.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Rocking when you push on them is significantly different than the vibration during use. I wouldn't expect to gain much of anything in terms of sound quality from spikes... 

But getting a spike down through the carpet and onto the slab might very well add some mechanical stability.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

DqMcClain said:


> Rocking when you push on them is significantly different than the vibration during use. I wouldn't expect to gain much of anything in terms of sound quality from spikes...
> 
> But getting a spike down through the carpet and onto the slab might very well add some mechanical stability.


Agree, Ive used spikes om my Mission towers in the livingroom system simply for the stability of the speakers. I highly doubt it makes any difference in the resonance (sound) of the speakers into the floor.


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> Agree, Ive used spikes om my Mission towers in the livingroom system simply for the stability of the speakers. I highly doubt it makes any difference in the resonance (sound) of the speakers into the floor.


Thanks for that info. I'm not worried about the speakers falling over as the slabs at the base of each speaker weigh around 35lbs each. My thought is that if the speakers move backwards in response to the cone pushing out then some (audio) energy is lost. Just how much they move during playback is the factor that will determine whether spikes will make any noticeable difference. If they don't sound any better then I'd rather go without spikes as they are hard enough to move around anyway and spikes will just make it more difficult.


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

My highly unscientific experiment was disappointing. The sound appeared to be colored in some way and I suspect I hadn't got all the spikes at the same length, allowing the tips of the spikes to 'tap' in sympathy with the music. I'd have to devise some way to make adjustable spikes which will be very tricky as it's concrete I'm fitting them to, not wood. I'm putting this 'idea' on the back burner until I have a brainwave.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

I'd try mounting some sort of a threaded insert into the concrete base.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

yapper said:


> I'm not having vibration problems. The slab is solid and void free. I'm looking more for stability - the speakers rock slightly when pushed as they are sat on thick carpet so I suspect they also move when playing music, which means the sound must be less than optimal.





DqMcClain said:


> Rocking when you push on them is significantly different than the vibration during use. I wouldn't expect to gain much of anything in terms of sound quality from spikes...
> But getting a spike down through the carpet and onto the slab might very well add some mechanical stability.


Mechanical stability and leveling/aiming are high on my list. With a similar situation of heavy pad & thick carpet over concrete, my speakers lean slightly with applied force even though they weigh 250 lbs each. Setup is not as involved as front/back wave matching for a dipole, but it's painful enough that I like them to stay put once dialed-in. To me they've sounded a little bass-shy with spikes in two different listening rooms. Spikes off = fuller bass. Psychoacoustic madness? Is there any other kind? 

Flying against the wind of consensus here, I'll stick my neck out to say I'm with the OP in believing that an entire speaker cabinet can move in response to musically energized drivers. Small (vibrational) movements will have less effect than gross (rocking) ones. Unwelcome vibration, however small, contributes to the overall sound in the room. Is it discernable? Probably not for well-designed cabinets which isolate drivers' vibrational energy from each other. And maybe not even for poorly-designed cabinets in a carefully set up system. I would say certainly not in an untreated room with a poorly tuned system. Sound elements this subtle require a top-notch signal chain to avoid masking effects. Might make an interesting experiment! What would you listen for? On one hand I'd expect differences in overall sound character between loud and soft volumes due to increasing vibration with increasing SPL. But on the other hand, I'd expect masking effects at louder volumes to circumvent detection of differences. Real-world results would depend on the usual suspects like musical genre, listener mood, and noise floor. When all is said and done? I predict no discernable differences except in the case of expectation bias and/or psychoacoustic influence.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

My 2¢ worth:


If image clarity is highly sensitive to LP or speaker enclosure placement or movement, then it can be susceptible to vibration and spikes might help, depending on floor, floor covering, a lot of factors.
If image clarity is very stable, then spikes do not seem to make a difference.
Bass "tightness" can also be affected by enclosure stability.
:dontknow:


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

Lumen said:


> To me they've sounded a little bass-shy with spikes in two different listening rooms. Spikes off = fuller bass. Psychoacoustic madness? Is there any other kind?


My highly unscientific test involved putting my subwoofer on a solid wooden platform. The platform had 4 sturdy nails driven through it acting as spikes that penetrated the carpet and pad to sit on the floor (concrete). I didn't notice any difference in bass levels (although I was probably more distracted by the coloration I mentioned earlier, probably caused by the 'spikes' not all sitting firmly on the floor and hence 'dancing' or 'tapping'.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

yapper said:


> My highly unscientific test involved putting my subwoofer on a solid wooden platform. The platform had 4 sturdy nails driven through it acting as spikes that penetrated the carpet and pad to sit on the floor (concrete). I didn't notice any difference in bass levels (although I was probably more distracted by the coloration I mentioned earlier, probably caused by the 'spikes' not all sitting firmly on the floor and hence 'dancing' or 'tapping'.


The tapping is reported to be a potential problem with spikes or nails on concrete. My current stands use machine screws and t-nuts (through a 1" board) for standoff and leveling on short carpet over a concrete slab (basement). The machine screws dig into the carpeting enough to give a pretty solid base for reducing vibration and help solidify the bass markedly.


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

I was doing a bit more research on this subject and had an idea. Imagine a speaker weighing 100lbs with a base measuring 10" x 10". That equates to a pressure on the floor of 1lb per square inch.

If 1" x 1" feet were used under each corner of the speaker the pressure on the floor would now be 25lb per square inch. Each foot is 1 square inch so with 4 feet the 100lb weight of the speaker is concentrated in 4 places, 100 divided by 4 = 25lb per square inch.

On a carpeted floor this would mean the carpet and pad would be compressed with 25 times more force which should reduce the tendency for the speaker to rock slightly.

I'm hoping to try this out to see if the theory pays dividends. I'll probably use large diameter wooden dowel for the feet, so it won't poke through the carpet and hopefully will avoid the harsh sounds I noted when spikes were used.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

If your on hardwood floors try this: http://www.amazon.com/Pack-Anti-Vib...665&sr=8-2&keywords=rubber+cork+isolator+pads

cut them with a miter box into 2" squares and double stack them. works fine.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

yapper said:


> I was doing a bit more research on this subject and had an idea. Imagine a speaker weighing 100lbs with a base measuring 10" x 10". That equates to a pressure on the floor of 1lb per square inch.
> 
> If 1" x 1" feet were used under each corner of the speaker the pressure on the floor would now be 25lb per square inch. Each foot is 1 square inch so with 4 feet the 100lb weight of the speaker is concentrated in 4 places, 100 divided by 4 = 25lb per square inch.
> 
> ...


Let us know what you hear.

What is under your carpet, concrete? Spikes through carpet on concrete can sometimes cause "chatter."


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

I couldn't find any large diameter dowel in the garage so I used some approx 2" x 2" x 0.5" blocks and used four under a speaker. Initial observations are that the sounds isn't worse (no chatter or distortion apparent). I only applied the blocks to one speaker so I could compare with/without at the same time. Sounds appeared to be slightly 'tighter' / less 'muddy' but not a large improvement.

I'll continue experimenting - maybe smaller blocks will make the improvement more noticeable.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

yapper said:


> I couldn't find any large diameter dowel in the garage so I used some approx 2" x 2" x 0.5" blocks and used four under a speaker. Initial observations are that the sounds isn't worse (no chatter or distortion apparent). I only applied the blocks to one speaker so I could compare with/without at the same time. Sounds appeared to be slightly 'tighter' / less 'muddy' but not a large improvement.
> 
> I'll continue experimenting - maybe smaller blocks will make the improvement more noticeable.


Do the same to both speakers. You will be more likely to notice any improvement through the soundstage and imaging (SS&I) while listening to a stereo source. And SS&I will be most improved with treatment to both speakers.

Another thought: Use blue poster putty or the like to stick the blocks to the bottom of the speakers. Possibly better anchoring, cheap and easy to try.


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

The blocks under one speaker was just a quick test. As expected adding them under the other speaker did reveal a more clearly defined soundstage. I'll try to obtain some 2" diameter dowel that I can use as more permanent feet, and if they sound as good as the temporary blocks I'll bond them to the base of the speakers.


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

I ended up making some feet starting with 2" x 2" wood, cut to give a wide squat foot approx 1/2" high. These are positioned at each corner at the base of the speakers. I then bored a 1/2" diameter hole in the center of each foot and inserted an approx 1" long piece of 1/2" diameter dowel. The end result is the speakers are standing on four very small feet that sink into the carpet and compress the underlying pad without penetrating though to the concrete floor. Sound seems more focused and the lower end is more 'punchy'.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

yapper said:


> I ended up making some feet starting with 2" x 2" wood, cut to give a wide squat foot approx 1/2" high. These are positioned at each corner at the base of the speakers. I then bored a 1/2" diameter hole in the center of each foot and inserted an approx 1" long piece of 1/2" diameter dowel. The end result is the speakers are standing on four very small feet that sink into the carpet and compress the underlying pad without penetrating though to the concrete floor. Sound seems more focused and the lower end is more 'punchy'.


Good job, and thanks for the report. Sounds like you did exactly the right thing for your situation. Improved focus and punchier bass are both the type of improvements I have experienced through anchoring like you have undertaken, depending on the speakers of course. Enjoy!


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