# $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Event - Nominated Speakers Voting Poll



## Sonnie

The speaker nominations for the $2,500 two-channel speaker evaluation event has been closed and the voting now begins. Thanks to all who nominated speakers... we certainly have a lot to choose from. Remember, that even if your favorite speakers do not get selected this round, they could be selected for a later round. We will likely take some of the higher voted speakers for the next round-up, so please vote regardless of whether you believe they will be included in this round or not.

We have NOT contacted all of these speaker manufacturers to see if they will participate, although we have contacted a few. If a speaker is voted in the top 4 and the manufacturer does not want to participate, we will go to the next highest vote getter. In case of a tie, Scoobie will be the tie breaking vote.

Votes are public and viewable. 

This *IS NOT* the poll to select which speakers you think will be chosen by the panelists as their favorites. This poll is for deciding which speakers will be included in the evaluation event.

As previously stated, we are giving our sponsors first priority, so the SVS Ultras and the EP CS2P's are already selected for the evaluation event and both have already agreed to participate. 

1. SVS Ultra Tower $2,000
2. Emerald Physics CS2P $3,000
3. ? 
4. ?
5. ?
6. ?

What other four speakers will make the cut?

No code has to be inserted here.*MSRP rounded to the nearest $100.

The average MSRP is approximately $2,500. 

Maximum MSRP allowed is $3,000.

If you are not familiar with what the evaluation will consist of, please see *The Official $1,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event Results*

*Let the voting begin!*

*Voting will end on midnight of 9/30/13*


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## Sonnie

This is a tough choice for me... just not sure what I would like to hear most out of all of these.


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## NBPk402

I guess I am the first to vote! I picked the 3 that I did because I would like to see how they fare against each other.


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## cavchameleon

I voted for both of the speakers with the RAAL tweeters, very curious how they compare. I also have always like Dynaudio products, so that was my third. There are a LOT of good speakers on that list though, so the choice is pretty hard.


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## jmschnur

Martin logan esl.


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## Sonnie

I voted for the Ascends with the RAAL, just to try to get one of the RAAL tweeters in the house... and they look more intimidating than the Salks. 

I voted MartinLogans since I am really curios about those, being that I own ML's. 

I voted on the Maggies because when I talked to Wendell at Magnepan today, he tells me the MG12's were definitely not big enough for my room and that the 1.7's shouldn't have an issue with the genie's voice on _Three Wishes_. He also said the bass is much better on these. 

Doesn't look like my last two have a chance right now, but it's still early. If not this round, maybe they make the next.


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## NewHTbuyer

I had a hard time choosing, but I ended up voting for the Tekton, VR-22s, and Ascend. The Tekton have generated so much attention, good and bad, I was hoping to see them included. I had the Ascends and VR-22 on my short list when I was looking but never got to get them in my house. It looks dim, but hopefully some more folks will vote for the VR-22s. I would find it very interesting how a speaker from a company that sells super high end stuff sounds compared to the other, more well known offerings. The VR-22s really sounded good at RMAF.


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## |Tch0rT|

I can't help it I'm biased. I had to pick the MartinLogan Electomotion ESL's since I own a pair.  I'd like to how they compare to the Magnepan's and Salk SongTowers, both brands I had considered before going the ML route.


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## fokakis1

Sonnie said:


> I voted for the Ascends with the RAAL, just to try to get one of the RAAL tweeters in the house... and they look more intimidating than the Salks.
> 
> I voted MartinLogans since I am really curios about those, being that I own ML's.
> 
> I voted on the Maggies because when I talked to Wendell at Magnepan today, he tells me the MG12's were definitely not big enough for my room and that the 1.7's shouldn't have an issue with the genie's voice on _Three Wishes_. He also said the bass is much better on these.
> 
> Doesn't look like my last two have a chance right now, but it's still early. If not this round, maybe they make the next.


I would be eager to hear what you guys have to say about the Ascends if you get em.

The MLs sounded good to me but the sweet spot was so small I would have to put my head in a vice to enjoy the sound. Any slight movement ruined the soundstage.

The 1.7s are still one of the best I've heard. But, I wonder if you have enough amp for them?


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## hyghwayman

The three I picked from the list in the poll were; Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4 / GT Audio Works GTA 1 / Tekton Seas Pendragon , for no other reason than I liked their names. Gallo = Space, GTA = game and I like Dragons :neener:

When I first looked at the choices in the poll and didn't see the SVS Ultra Towers on the list I was :yikes:, thinking they weren't going to be allowed in the evaluation because they would trounce the competition :dumbcrazy:, only to be rewarded for scrolling down further and seeing they already made the short list :clap:


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## tcarcio

Interested in what you think of the Philharmonics if they get in the contest...:T


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## Dwight Angus

This is a tough class. I voted for the Ascends, Salks Songtowers & Tekton Seas Pendragons. Curious to see how these ones compare.


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## pharoah

oops i missed the part to vote for 3. i voted for the seas pendragon on the poll.


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## JBrax

I voted for the Salks, Tekton's, and Paradigms. The Salks mostly from the positive impressions of them from Joe while researching his speakers. The Tekton's from some online reading I had done and it seems people are impressed by them. I have heard the Paradigm studio 100's and Signatures in person and they're impressive.


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## prerich

Opps!!!! I didn't see the limitations on how many to vote for 

I would limit mine to the Asend with the Raal Tweeter, Tekton Pendragon, and the GoldenEar if I must choose only 3! That was a mess of good speakers in that list!!!!!!!!! :T


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## NewHTbuyer

Interesting voting so far. I am not surprised that Salk and Ascend have a lot of votes, although I was kind of hoping for some new blood. Still, it will be an awesome shootout. I can't think of speakers more different than the Songtowers vs. the Pendragons. 

Wonder what the surprise speaker will be?


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## tonyvdb

I voted for the Ascend Acoustics, Martin Logan's and the Tekton's. 
I am thinking the SVS ultras will give them a run for their money so will see. looking forward to this :T


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## Tonto

Wow, this is going to be tough! I've been reading about these speakers all morning. I want to hear more than just 3 of them, really!
That being said I narrowed the list to the ones that I think I would like to consider for my system. Considering many factors, my picks are:

1) Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower (RAAL Tweeter)
2) MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL
3) Salk Songtowers RT (RAAL Tweeter) 

I must admit, I'm impressed with those RAAL Tweeters, and I have to see how they compare to the ML's panel.
And even more than that, how they compare to the ARX A5's that we picked in the last shootout.


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## Sonnie

Tonto said:


> Wow, this is going to be tough! I've been reading about these speakers all morning. I want to hear more than just 3 of them, really!


There will be 6 speakers ... but you only get to vote on 3. We pre-selected 3 before the voting began.


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## Tonto

Hey Sonnie, 

I saw that, & I like the way you are taking care of the sponsors. I'm also hoping I know what the suprise speakers are going to be. I think I have it narrowed down to two of our sponsors, man I hate/love surprises!!!

It may become necessary to dole out a few hints as we go!


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## Sonnie

I think you are going to be surprised.


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## BassHogg

Magnepan 1.7
Martin Logan Electromotion ESL
Vandersteen 2ce Signature II


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## NewHTbuyer

Sonnie said:


> I think you are going to be surprised.


Magico? Wilson?


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## hemster

I voted for the following: 


Paradigm Studio 60
Salk Songtowers RT (RAAL Tweeter)
Tekton Seas Pendragon

I believe these would be very interesting to learn more about and I'm intrigued about comparing them.


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## skeeter99

I voted for the Salk and Ascend due to them both sharing the same tweeter so the crossover implementation will be a key to how they sound (similar or dissimilar). Also chose the Paradigms as I've love 'digms forever and would like to see how they stack against the ID stuff. I've heard the Salk's but not with that tweeter and was very impressed by them! 

Scott


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## Sonnie

Sonnie said:


> I think you are going to be surprised.
> 
> 
> NewHTbuyer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Magico? Wilson?
Click to expand...

They could make it unfair... because of the cost difference, but we will just have to see.


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## Tonto

Sonnie wrote:



> I think you are going to be surprised.


Oh, that's just wrong!!! That is no kind of a hint at all...you're killing me now!


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## NBPk402

I was gone for a hour or so and the count has really changed as to the top contenders!


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## gorb

Voted for the Ascend, Phil, and Salk speakers


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## Tufelhundin

I voted for 3 that I would be very interested in, BUT and there always is a BUT, I would drop either one of them to add the SVS (IF) they are one of the later entries.


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## Brum

It is not easy to decide you no more three.


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## SteveCallas

JTR Noesis 228HT? Seem to be all the rage lately


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## typ44q

A lot good speakers on that list, never having heard any of them I went with three that I was the most curious about and ones that I will always read reviews on if I see them.


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## JerryLove

I'm saddened that this comes in as "receive notification of updates to free software updates, and giveaway announcements."  

I'll have to change my preferences to not get those so as to not be asked to come vote in polls.


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## dobyblue

I was actually happy to get the notification, look forward to the article. I don't post in the forums, but I read the e-mails.

I went with Dynaudio and Salks, then added the Paradigms because I'm very familiar with those and wanted to see how they'll stack up.


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## AR2

I am glad I received invitation. This vote is great initiative, and I am happy to be able to participate.
Good luck to organizers, I am sure it is a lots of work.


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## punter45

I am really interested in the Von Schweikert and Tektons. I owned the regular Pendragons for a few months and am curious how the SEAS Pendragons stack up.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated

My votes went to:
- Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower (RAAL Tweeter)
- Magnepan 1.7
- Paradigm Studio 60


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## Pilk

Sierra Towers, ML ESL, Salk Towers


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## jaypeecee

Hello Home Theater Enthusiasts,

I would not choose any of these speakers. Instead, I am drawn to high fidelity products rather than fashionable names.

JPC


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## NewHTbuyer

jaypeecee said:


> Hello Home Theater Enthusiasts,
> 
> I would not choose any of these speakers. Instead, I am drawn to high fidelity products rather than fashionable names.
> 
> JPC


Like which ones? :huh:


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## J&D

I am also very interested in how the RAAL tweeter fares in a comparison. I voted for the Salk but if it ends up being the Ascend that is fine with me also. I would like to have that compared to the seas so the Tekton Pendragon is my next vote and my final vote went to the Triton Two. Looking forward to the seeing who the final contenders are and the results of the comparison.


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## janick

hyghwayman said:


> The three I picked from the list in the poll were; Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4 / GT Audio Works GTA 1 / Tekton Seas Pendragon , for no other reason than I liked their names. Gallo = Space, GTA = game and I like Dragons :neener:
> 
> When I first looked at the choices in the poll and didn't see the SVS Ultra Towers on the list I was :yikes:, thinking they weren't going to be allowed in the evaluation because they would *trounce the competition* :dumbcrazy:, only to be rewarded for scrolling down further and seeing they already made the short list :clap:


Certainly don't want to start an issue but TROUNCE THE COMPETITION. There are some pretty good speakers in this group.


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## macmovieman

Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4
Paradigm Studio 60
Von Schweikert


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## JeffB

I see the Von Schweikert VR-22 are lagging a bit in the poles. In the past I have not really looked into Von Schweikert because they seemed out of my price range. The VR-22s look really interesting though. I hope more people take a look at these and start voting for them.

I have been in search for a really magical speaker, something that really gets me into the music and moves me. The Dynaudio line is always well reviewed and respected and when I have heard them, they seem accurate and without any real flaws, but for some reason they just don't quite do it for me.

I put in a vote for the Triton 2. I have heard the Aon bookshelf and the mids and upper frequencies were excellent, but to my ear there was something very wrong with the bass response. I saw one review say the same about the Triton 2 so I almost didn't vote for it. Still it seems almost universally praised as a giant killer.

I also put in a vote for the Song Tower as these get great praise over on audiocircle, the woodworking is fantastic and apparently everybody loves the RAAL tweeter.

Many of the English speakers are hard to demo and find dealer networks, like the Tannoy and Canton. I am reluctant to buy without an in home trial period. I know Von Schweikert, Salk Sound, Ascend, and Magnepan have in home trials and maybe some of the others too.

To my ears the Magnepan 1.7s cannot due justice to heavy metal, which is my primary music. Perhaps it is all about the proper sub-woofer integration and the using the right amplifier. From what I have read equipment synergy is a huge issue with Magnepan.


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## narval

Done,vote:neener:


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## NewHTbuyer

I was hoping the VR-22s would sneak in, but it looks unlikely. Looking at the leaders, I would prefer if one of the planar and one of the Raal speakers made it, rather than, say both the Maggie's and ML or both the Ascend and Salk. I just think it would be more interesting with varied types of speakers.


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## chaluga

NewHTbuyer said:


> Interesting voting so far. I am not surprised that Salk and Ascend have a lot of votes, although I was kind of hoping for some new blood. Still, it will be an awesome shootout. I can't think of speakers more different than the Songtowers vs. the Pendragons.
> 
> Wonder what the surprise speaker will be?


The pendragons with seas drivers are not so different .


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## tomeh

I would love to see Newform Research's in there.

Cheers,

Tom eh


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## chaluga

The voting numbers seem odd. Suddenly some have 70-80 votes and nobody left a comment for them . Can you vote three times for the same speaker ?


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## janick

NewHTbuyer said:


> I was hoping the VR-22s would sneak in, but it looks unlikely. Looking at the leaders, I would prefer if one of the planar and one of the Raal speakers made it, rather than, say both the Maggie's and ML or both the Ascend and Salk. I just think it would be more interesting with varied types of speakers.


+1


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## Cradeldorf

I was hoping to see how the cornscala D's fared but... :rolleyesno:


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## OZZIERP

I own the Paradigm Studio 100's ,570 and 20's so I am biased as for choosing Paradigm then Dynaudio and finally Salk.


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## barryb

Salk
Golden Ear
Def Tech


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## Sonnie

We appreciate all who are interested and all who voted. Thank you!




JerryLove said:


> I'm saddened that this comes in as "receive notification of updates to free software updates, and giveaway announcements."
> 
> I'll have to change my preferences to not get those so as to not be asked to come vote in polls.


This really isn't the proper place to lodge a complaint, but since you insist...

For the record... the check box reads: Receive Email from Administrators - *We encourage you to leave this checked if you plan to frequent the forums and if you desire to receive notification of updates to free software updates, and giveaway announcements.*

Nowhere does it say that free software updates and giveaway announcements are the only things we plan to email you. As a matter of fact, we no longer send out emails about either one of those via Admin emails, thus I will remove it. We include those in our newsletter now, which I am sure if the request to vote in our polls bothered you, the newsletter will cause you to go into the hospital.

It sounds like the only reason you desire to get emails from us is if you are going to benefit by way of REW updates or giveaways. If our other emails bother you enough to cause you not to want to get any mail from us at all (and we do not send that much as it is - maybe 3 or 4 this entire year) then you are likely here for the wrong reasons. 

Some folks appreciate what we do... some don't. Obviously you don't, therefore we don't really care if you ever get another update on REW or a notification of a giveaway or not. Your attitude just really does not fit our forum... you would probably fare better somewhere else.




jaypeecee said:


> Hello Home Theater Enthusiasts,
> 
> I would not choose any of these speakers. Instead, I am drawn to high fidelity products rather than fashionable names.
> 
> JPC


So you are suggesting that none of these on the list are high fidelity? Seriously?




tomeh said:


> I would love to see Newform Research's in there.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tom eh


I will try to keep those in mind for the next round and maybe we can include them. If you happen to remember, if we do nominations for the next round, mention them to us then.




chaluga said:


> The voting numbers seem odd. Suddenly some have 70-80 votes and nobody left a comment for them . Can you vote three times for the same speaker ?


No... but I can tell you that there are a lot of members who vote but do not post anything, which is not a requirement to vote. You can see who voted for each speaker though... just click on the number of votes.




Cradeldorf said:


> I was hoping to see how the cornscala D's fared but... :rolleyesno:


As I stated above... maybe we can get them in the voting for next time around. Of course remember that they have to be voted on and the manufacturer has to agree to send them to us. It ain't automatic.


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## wraunch

I voted for the Paradigm, Salk and Ascends!


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## chaluga

JerryLove said:


> I'm saddened that this comes in as "receive notification of updates to free software updates, and giveaway announcements."
> 
> I'll have to change my preferences to not get those so as to not be asked to come vote in polls.


Yeah voting in polls is a real killer. Better stick to avs where no need for polls .. just pick the speaker from a frequency graph.


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## JimmyLeggs

I want to see how the Digms do against the rest


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## stpope

Hi all,

I'm missing any of the better European active monitors in this list.

On a limited budget (anything except cost-no-object, that is), I'd always recommend saving the $ on a power amp and expensive speaker cables and buying high-end active studio monitors such as:
Genelec 8040B,
Dynaudio Acoustics BM6AMkII,
Focal Solo6 Be, or 
Adam Professional Audio A8X.

I have 2 pairs of Genelecs (both with subwoofers) here at home and love them, and the cabling is much easier! (Use a balanced pre-amp, of course.) The University here has a mix of Dynaudio and Adam active monitors and they also provide fantastic price/performance ratios. Avoid the "also ran" non-audiophile brands like Mackie, Behringer, M-Audio, JBL, Event, etc.

...just a thought; I'm not trying to pick a fight...

stp


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## PC509

I voted for three, and oddly enough, they were the 3 highest voted from the poll. So, at least I have some sense (a little, admittedly!).


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## Sonnie

And we have 6 votes for *DO NOT VOTE FOR MORE THAN THREE* 

LOL ... I kind of expected it... really I did.




stpope said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I'm missing any of the better European active monitors in this list.
> 
> On a limited budget (anything except cost-no-object, that is), I'd always recommend saving the $ on a power amp and expensive speaker cables and buying high-end active studio monitors such as:
> Genelec 8040B,
> Dynaudio Acoustics BM6AMkII,
> Focal Solo6 Be, or
> Adam Professional Audio A8X.
> 
> I have 2 pairs of Genelecs (both with subwoofers) here at home and love them, and the cabling is much easier! (Use a balanced pre-amp, of course.) The University here has a mix of Dynaudio and Adam active monitors and they also provide fantastic price/performance ratios. Avoid the "also ran" non-audiophile brands like Mackie, Behringer, M-Audio, JBL, Event, etc.
> 
> ...just a thought; I'm not trying to pick a fight...
> 
> stp


Perhaps powered monitors are something we can look at in the future. 

How about the Emotiva Stealth 8 ... although it ain't European.


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## Treelady

Great idea! Best wishes with the event. - Treelady


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## djoka

I don't know what I missed for the last century,
but I can't see the Thiels anywhere on this list.
Somebody care to bring me in, real quick?lddude:


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## stpope

I haven't heard the Emotivas...


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## Saturn94

jaypeecee said:


> Hello Home Theater Enthusiasts,
> 
> I would not choose any of these speakers. Instead, I am drawn to high fidelity products rather than fashionable names.
> 
> JPC


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## SRBoston

I voted for the Paradigms, Pendragons and the Van Schweikerts. Not that I've had the opportunity to hear any of these, but I'd like to see how they stack up with the competition. Looking forward to reading the results.


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## Tom Riddle

I voted for the Paradigms. I would love to have some in my future theater room.


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## rnm410

Voted for the quarter wave tubes against the reference Paradigm. You should as well.


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## xj4094dg

I voted for the Maggies primarily. I've never heard better sound than what Magnepan has been able to accomplish. The MG20's have to be heard to be believed. I'm curious how the smaller ones stack up with the box speakers (not a huge fan of 99% of boxes).


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## sub_crazy

I voted for the Von Schweikert VR-22 Since I have owned the VR-4 MKII for close to 10 years now even though I have tried in vain to replace them on numerous occasions. I am curious to hear what Albert has come up with since.

I voted for the Magnepan 1.7 since at one point in time I owned the 1.6 and thought they were great speakers for music so it would be fun to see the new version in an evaluation.

The Tekton Seas Pendragon I have had the pleasure of listening to at a friends house a few times and think it is an excellent speaker. I think it would be great to see how it compares to others.

I guess I just picked speakers that I have experienced and was impressed with what these manufacturers can produce. 

If I could add a speaker to the line-up I would really like to see how the Triad Gold LCR's stack up. I run the older versions in my theater and love them, I hear the new version is even better.


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## Sweetmeat

Any reason why B&W CM9's aren't included? I know they're $3,000/pair, but a couple others in the list were the same price. 

I'm really just curious to know why they aren't in the list. Not good enough?


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## robertss1952

New member here...still reading all the fine threads on the Forum.

My vote was a bit biased...I have the Ascend Towers with RAALs. I was looking at some of the other speakers on the list so I voted for my other top Two. Golden Ear and Salk Towers.

One major item that swayed me from the Goldenear speakers was their much smaller and less powerful surround speakers. All of mine (all 9) are all Ascend Acoustics speakers for matching tonality. 

I was not able to hear the Salks so this will be interesting if they get into the final 6 for testing.


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## hookandgroove

I realize I have no track record here, but as a longtime pro audio engineer I would love to see some Focal speakers in the shoot out. I have the Dome at home in a theater area and several of their pro line beryllium for work. They are spectacular.


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## Sonnie

djoka said:


> I don't know what I missed for the last century,
> but I can't see the Thiels anywhere on this list.
> Somebody care to bring me in, real quick?lddude:


You just missed the first post is all... $4,000/pair is a bit out of the $2,500 average. We capped it at $3,000 MSRP.



Sweetmeat said:


> Any reason why B&W CM9's aren't included? I know they're $3,000/pair, but a couple others in the list were the same price.
> 
> I'm really just curious to know why they aren't in the list. Not good enough?


Can only get them in piano black and I only wanted non-sheen black speakers just in case I decide to keep a pair. Later on when it don't matter, we can get whatever finish there is... won't matter then. This will not be the only round.


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## Sonnie

hookandgroove said:


> I realize I have no track record here, but as a longtime pro audio engineer I would love to see some Focal speakers in the shoot out. I have the Dome at home in a theater area and several of their pro line beryllium for work. They are spectacular.


We did include them in the first evaluation, but they are discontinuing all of their current models in the price range we are evaluating, so we figured we would wait on the new models and maybe get them included for voting on the next round.


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## Mike0206

I voted but for whatever reason it only let me vote for one. Then I received an email saying I hadn't voted yet on this poll. Weird? Sonnie could you help me out with this? The only vote that went through was for the def techs.


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## Sonnie

It is a multiple choice poll... did you try to vote for more than one? I don't think anyone else has had any problems. If it were a problem in the system it would effect everyone, not just one user.

You likely got the email after you had voted.


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## chaluga

Mike0206 said:


> I voted but for whatever reason it only let me vote for one. Then I received an email saying I hadn't voted yet on this poll. Weird? Sonnie could you help me out with this? The only vote that went through was for the def techs.


I got the same


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## dgage

SteveCallas said:


> JTR Noesis 228HT? Seem to be all the rage lately


I'll be purchasing the JTR Noesis 212HTs tomorrow so they have my vote and it would be great to see how the Noesis would match up with these more popular speakers.


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## seanpatrick

I voted for the Paradigms, the Salks and the Maggies - they seem to be doing pretty well!


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## TitaniumTroy

Being a hardcore planer fan I voted for the Magnepan 1.7's, Martin Logan's and GT Audio hybrid planers. I am very curious about the sound of the GT Audio hybrids vs my Magnepan 3.6's.


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## admranger

I picked the Canton and Tannoy speakers for selfish reasons. My local dealer sells them so I can compare your results to something I can hear with my own ears. 

I picked the Von Schweikert speakers because I've seen people rave about them on Audiogon and am interested in your opinion of these.

I do question your sanity having another test so soon after the first marathon session. 

Thanks for the work!


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## Picture_Shooter

Alright Sonnie!!!! You are gonna make me go back on the market to buy another set of towers after this next review!! 

So all I have to say to ya is "God bless ya!!!" LOLS!!! 

-Mike


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## unittha

I voted for the Paradigms, the Salks and the Maggies


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## recruit

I voted for the Martin Logan's


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## mortak

hi , this is my first post here , i like the forum, is usefull for me .
i wonder why you don´t add the " Funktion One " brand to the contest , i my opinion is the best tech for audio design .. 
keep the good job ..:wave:


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## brokencrank

I voted for the two with RAAL tweeter, and the Pendragons. These three are of the most interest to me for a few different reasons and I'd love to see how they all fare.


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## geger

Hi Sonnie!
(In order to thank you for my waking up from an early hibernation:blink I just voted (for the Tannoy, as it's the only brand I know of, not in a context of HT, moreover! but in a general way, I used to like the very natural and balanced sound of these speakers; so I would be interested to read a few comments)
Thanks
geger


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## Queball

Sad to see that there is not a Klipsch option in there. Don't know what groupings are being combined for the $2500 number, but would love to see the Klipsch RF-7ii series in there.


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## ALCOMData

I voted for 

Maggie 1.7s (I have the 20.1's for my two front speakers)
Martin Logans (I have a pair of ML Vantages for my side surrounds)
Paradigm 60s (I have a Signature Sub2 as one of my two subs)lddude:


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## jeffrobinson

I like to see the biggest performance from the smallest size. Now I have to go research all of these for chassis dimensions. Honey, I'll be in the office..........


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## gorb

jaypeecee said:


> Hello Home Theater Enthusiasts,
> 
> I would not choose any of these speakers. Instead, I am drawn to high fidelity products rather than fashionable names.
> 
> JPC


What would be your recommendations? What is your definition of high fidelity?


----------



## rab-byte

I'd love to see the Maggies vs. Logans!

The other brand I picked was DefTech.


----------



## chashint

jaypeecee said:


> Hello Home Theater Enthusiasts,
> 
> I would not choose any of these speakers. Instead, I am drawn to high fidelity products rather than fashionable names.
> 
> JPC


Interesting that you throw this out there without a single example of what you like.
Keeping in mind there is a price cap on the speakers the proposed line up is pretty salty.
Of course there are many more choices at this price point so toss out what you perceive as being superior.


----------



## NewHTbuyer

Look at all the votes for Dynaudio and Tannoy....must be a bunch of Europeans voting!:foottap:

I jest, since I was the one that originally suggested adding the Tannoy. Still, interesting to see the results so far.


----------



## aackthpt

Would like to see Seaton Catalyst, BF David, JTR Noesis, Geddes Abbey (or pref. Summa), whatever Revels you can get in that price range, Parts Express/Audio Artistry CBT36K.

Also would like to see fully blinded testing with single speakers (mono).

I'd also still like to know why we build castles in the sky.


----------



## Sonnie

A couple of others that we need to consider for the next round are the Bamberg Series 2 TMM ... and Pi Speakers... both would be very interesting additions.




admranger said:


> I do question your sanity having another test so soon after the first marathon session.


I have never tried heroin, but suspect it is along the same lines... we are now addicted and we have just GOT to have a fix. As Wayne asked after we started these gigs... "And people need drugs?" Seriously... it is the best high there is... and it last for a full couple of days. The anxiousness leading up to it is a high. Of course getting to keep the speakers in my home after the event is a lingering high.




mortak said:


> i wonder why you don´t add the " Funktion One " brand to the contest , i my opinion is the best tech for audio design:


Those look like commercial speakers for commercial use. 




Queball said:


> Sad to see that there is not a Klipsch option in there. Don't know what groupings are being combined for the $2500 number, but would love to see the Klipsch RF-7ii series in there.


The RF-7's were considered, but we capped the MSRP at $3,000... so they did not make the cut.




aackthpt said:


> Would like to see Seaton Catalyst, BF David, JTR Noesis, Geddes Abbey (or pref. Summa), whatever Revels you can get in that price range, Parts Express/Audio Artistry CBT36K.


We need to get them in on the nominations next time, although we did look at Revels and they don't have any in that range. The JTR's require stands, which is an additional expense that may put them over the $3,000 cap... but not sure. I am not familiar with the others, but if they fit the qualifications, we can certainly include them in the next round of voting. We also have to consider if they will be willing to participate. Some will pony up... some will run and hide.




aackthpt said:


> Also would like to see fully blinded testing with single speakers (mono).


I am not sure what purpose this will serve. Who listens to one speaker in mono? Enlighten me... with all seriousness.




aackthpt said:


> I'd also still like to know why we build castles in the sky.


It's a secret!


----------



## fredbatch

Hi all,

As a Brit, I am particularly interested in seeing the Tannoy and Dynaudio included as these are readily available in the UK. Either way, seems an interesting and varied list to compare, so looking forward to seeing the end opinions and results. 

Fred.


----------



## aackthpt

Sonnie said:


> I am not sure what purpose this will serve. Who listens to one speaker in mono? Enlighten me... with all seriousness.


Floyd Toole's book goes through research that indicates that monophonic listening demonstrates a greater difference between loudspeakers, as shown for example on page 133 from a study he published in 1985. I can post the figure if you like. On page 137 he notes "A loudspeaker that sounds good in a monophonic comparison is likely to sound good in a stereo comparison, but the reverse is not necessarily true. Evaluate your loudspeakers in monophonic comparisons (to find out what you really have). Demonstrate your loudspeakers in stereo or, presumably, multichannel (to impress everybody)." I am not at all sure if he was suggesting one speaker in the center, or running one speaker in the position it would be in a stereo pair. If you are interested I can reread, figure it out, and post it. Toole's book was incredibly enlightening in terms of understanding audio, and how perceptual effects interact with system design and setup.

I'm not at all sure all acoustic people at that level would agree. For example Earl Geddes has a significantly different take on ideal loudspeaker dispersion etc, even though they would presumably both be familiar with the same body of research. However Toole wrote the most cogent and scientific exposition of such things with which I'm familiar and I (currently) find most of his points convincing.


----------



## aackthpt

> The JTR's require stands, which is an additional expense that may put them over the $3,000 cap... but not sure.


Dude, are you really a *******? Because cement blocks make excellent stands. Paint them if you don't like the color!


----------



## HTip

It was not easy to pick three, but I went for brands which I have heard before:
- Dynaudio
- Tannoy
- Von Schweikert

Some brands I don't know. Maybe only available in the US?

Look forward to the article and curious which 3 speakers are pre-selected


----------



## AudiocRaver

aackthpt said:


> Floyd Toole's book goes through research that indicates that monophonic listening demonstrates a greater difference between loudspeakers, as shown for example on page 133 from a study he published in 1985. I can post the figure if you like. On page 137 he notes "A loudspeaker that sounds good in a monophonic comparison is likely to sound good in a stereo comparison, but the reverse is not necessarily true. Evaluate your loudspeakers in monophonic comparisons (to find out what you really have). Demonstrate your loudspeakers in stereo or, presumably, multichannel (to impress everybody)." I am not at all sure if he was suggesting one speaker in the center, or running one speaker in the position it would be in a stereo pair. If you are interested I can reread, figure it out, and post it. Toole's book was incredibly enlightening in terms of understanding audio, and how perceptual effects interact with system design and setup.
> 
> I'm not at all sure all acoustic people at that level would agree. For example Earl Geddes has a significantly different take on ideal loudspeaker dispersion etc, even though they would presumably both be familiar with the same body of research. However Toole wrote the most cogent and scientific exposition of such things with which I'm familiar and I (currently) find most of his points convincing.


I can see the point being valid in some situations. In this case, with controlled acoustics, top-quality associated equipment, experienced listeners (including seasoned audio professionals), and taking the time to optimize setup, there is probably little to be gained by a mono listening test.

Our first goal in setup is to find good soundstage and imaging, stereo required to achieve them.

If you have a few minutes to post a brief summary of Toole's reasoning, that would be academically interesting, but please do not spend more than a few minutes on it. Thanks.


----------



## hyghwayman

janick said:


> hyghwayman said:
> 
> 
> 
> The three I picked from the list in the poll were; Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4 / GT Audio Works GTA 1 / Tekton Seas Pendragon , for no other reason than I liked their names. Gallo = Space, GTA = game and I like Dragons :neener:
> 
> When I first looked at the choices in the poll and didn't see the SVS Ultra Towers on the list I was :yikes:, thinking they weren't going to be allowed in the evaluation because they would trounce the competition :dumbcrazy:, only to be rewarded for scrolling down further and seeing they already made the short list :clap:
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly don't want to start an issue but TROUNCE THE COMPETITION. There are some pretty good speakers in this group.
Click to expand...

No worries janick,
If ya look at my post I used some smilies because I was trying to be funny, nothing more :rofl:


----------



## padgman1

I voted for the Ascends, the Pendragons, and the Phil Slims............

Sonny, I think you need to include one of the RAAL speakers from this list, regardless of the vote count. I also would like to see 1, but not 2, of the planars ( even though I did not vote for any of them).

Of course, in an ideal world, you would be able to evaluate ALL of these speakers in a weekend and give us a scintillating report the next week.......:innocent:


----------



## eHum

padgman1 said:


> I voted for the Ascends, the Pendragons, and the Phil Slims............
> 
> Of course, in an ideal world, you would be able to evaluate ALL of these speakers in a weekend and give us a scintillating report the next week.......:innocent:


What! :yikes: 

Oh well, if Superman turns out to be the "*******" in this case...I suppose it could be done.:bigsmile:


----------



## Sonnie

The following members voted more than 3 times:

Bob_99 - voted (4)
brichter - voted (4)
climber07 - voted (4)
damain56 - voted (4)
jkeiser - voted (7)
nikosf16 - voted (4)
n_olympios - voted (7)
stearnsn - voted (5)
tnargs - voted (4)
Todd Anderson - voted (6)
Ustas - voted (4)


Your votes have been rescinded and you may vote again if like.

We have hopefully set it to where you can now only make three choices.


----------



## callas01

I own Dynaudio speakers(Focus 160s) so I'd like to see them compared to these other highly regarded speakers. However I'm not the biggest fan of the DM3/7s. But I voted for those and the Phil slims and ascend speakers. 

Are you guys gonna use the same rogue amp? I heard it with my 160s and didn't think they were great together. Like my naim XS much more.


----------



## Sonnie

> aackthpt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, are you really a *******? Because cement blocks make excellent stands. Paint them if you don't like the color!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> eHum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh well, if Superman turns out to be the "*******" in this case...I suppose it could be done.:bigsmile:
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

A country ******* hillbilly yes (although I can clean up pretty good when I take a bath)... but superman I am not. That mean cement blocks would be too heavy for me. :huh:




padgman1 said:


> Of course, in an ideal world, you would be able to evaluate ALL of these speakers in a weekend and give us a scintillating report the next week.......:innocent:


Yep... definitely got me confused with superman.




callas01 said:


> Are you guys gonna use the same rogue amp? I heard it with my 160s and didn't think they were great together. Like my naim XS much more.


I hope we can get a solid state amp in the picture for use. We have cut back the number of speakers... and perhaps we can cut back the number of demo songs to 6-8 and then have a listen with both the Rogue and the solid state... we may can squeeze it in. I personally prefer the Rogue, but will not exclude a solid state. I do have a Behringer EP2500 we could use... plenty of power.


----------



## aackthpt

AudiocRaver said:


> If you have a few minutes to post a brief summary of Toole's reasoning, that would be academically interesting, but please do not spend more than a few minutes on it. Thanks.


Never mind.

Would also like to see some Danley Synergy Horns up in here.


----------



## Sonnie

I can tell you that Danley will NOT send us anything. So if we get them, we will have to obtain them some other way. I had a long conversation with them a few months back (last Winter) and they simply do not want to get involved with online forums. They have had some bad experiences that they cannot get past. We begged them for subs to review... ain't gonna happen unless they change ownership or have a serious change of heart. I explained to them that we were not the typical discussion forum, but they weren't picking up what I was throwing down.


----------



## callas01

Ill add that I did like the rogue I just thought it lacked low-end slam for my taste.


----------



## Sonnie

And we have no idea yet how it will perform with speakers that extend into the lower octaves... and the speakers in our $1,000 event are all it has been connected to... and all of those rolled off at 40-50Hz. Of course it performed very well with bass on those speakers... some better than others, but it was definitely there with some respectable slam, just not that kick in the chest slam that you might get with bigger drivers.

I think it will be wise for us to have a higher powered solid state on hand and in the mix.


----------



## jmschnur

Would it hurt to listen to one track of music in mono as part of the tests?


----------



## aackthpt

Sonnie said:


> I can tell you that Danley will NOT send us anything.


Now that's a bit of a shame right there. Strange, too, as I've pretty much seen only positive talk about their stuff and they have official reps doing great support in some of the forums. Unless they are maybe still smarting from the TH-SPUD layout leak and duplication. :huh:


----------



## aackthpt

Sonnie said:


> The following members voted more than 3 times:


I voted for this new speaker called "DO NOT VOTE FOR MORE THAN THREE" ... fancy name, I must say.


----------



## Sonnie

jmschnur said:


> Would it hurt to listen to one track of music in mono as part of the tests?


What would it tell us... as I am not familiar with mono music.




aackthpt said:


> Now that's a bit of a shame right there. Strange, too, as I've pretty much seen only positive talk about their stuff and they have official reps doing great support in some of the forums. Unless they are maybe still smarting from the TH-SPUD layout leak and duplication. :huh:


I don't think they are here, so maybe that was the "real" issue... we did not have enough discussion about them here and they did not see us as being significant enough for them. You would think if they have "genuine" reps in forums, they would realize how important forum members are. However, it may simply be they just do not believe their products need reviewing or testing.


----------



## flamingeye

I picked the Ascend, Definitive and Tekton 

I’m carious of these 3 the most and how well they will compete , but it's to bad they all couldn't be in the shootout it would be interesting to see how they all compare to each other


----------



## lcaillo

Sonnie said:


> What would it tell us... as I am not familiar with mono music.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think they are here, so maybe that was the "real" issue... we did not have enough discussion about them here and they did not see us as being significant enough for them. You would think if they have "genuine" reps in forums, they would realize how important forum members are. However, it may simply be they just do not believe their products need reviewing or testing.


Some manufacturers do not provide samples nor provide any support for reviews because the perceive it as a risk and have what they believe to be a well defined plan for promoting and distributing their products. Some are very careful about what products are in dealers that might be compared to their own. It is on perspective in marketing, perhaps dated in these days of direct sales and internet marketing, but it may be that they are having the success that they expect.


----------



## Arejoy

I voteed for only one speaker, simply because it`s the best. 
Looking forward to see how the vote goes.
Have an awsome HI-FI athum :T

R.J :foottap:


----------



## djoka

Not to split hair here, but Thiel SCS4 is $1149.99 per speaker, on multiple websites, shipped directly from manufacturer.
Just saying.


----------



## AudiocRaver

jmschnur said:


> Would it hurt to listen to one track of music in mono as part of the tests?


Of course it would hurt nothing, except you can appreciate that we have a lot to get done and have to prioritize.

I will do this: Have a good mono test track we can work with. And see if we can fit in at least a few minutes listening with it while we are setting up, to get a feel for whether or not it seems to have value for what we are trying to accomplish.

I do appreciate the input. It could turn out to show us something important. It is worth at least a few minutes' worth of investigation.

Again, thank you for the input.


----------



## AudiocRaver

Sonnie said:


> I have never tried heroin, but suspect it is along the same lines... we are now addicted and we have just GOT to have a fix. As Wayne asked after we started these gigs... "And people need drugs?" Seriously... it is the best high there is... and it last for a full couple of days. The anxiousness leading up to it is a high. Of course getting to keep the speakers in my home after the event is a lingering high.


Addicted is the word for it. Keep those silly drugs away from me, I will take an audio high any old day. And, as Sonnie says, now we need another fix, ASAP!

The anticipation is already starting to build!


----------



## Sheep

Ok, I voted.


----------



## Sonnie

djoka said:


> Not to split hair here, but Thiel SCS4 is $1149.99 per speaker, on multiple websites, shipped directly from manufacturer.
> Just saying.


I think it would take their CS2.4 or better to compete with most of these. I thought their lowest model was the 1.7... never even knew about the SCS4. Next time we have nominations you can nominate them and we will put them in the poll.




Sheep said:


> Ok, I voted.


Thanks House!


----------



## chaluga

Man the dynaudio to me.have come out of nowhere. Hardly mentioned in many threads , and not much vocal support for it in this thread. I think many people sonnie will have a hard time waiting till spring to see the other speakers make a shootout . We need one every couple of months !


----------



## ALMFamily

chaluga said:


> Man the dynaudio to me.have come out of nowhere. Hardly mentioned in many threads , and not much vocal support for it in this thread. I think many people sonnie will have a hard time waiting till spring to see the other speakers make a shootout . We need one every couple of months !


I think it is because they have a good reputation, but they do not sell ID. I also voted for Dynaudio as I have heard a couple setups at recent shows, and was intrigued by the sound.


----------



## SteveCallas

dgage said:


> I'll be purchasing the JTR Noesis 212HTs tomorrow so they have my vote and it would be great to see how the Noesis would match up with these more popular speakers


Yeah, I don't know if folks here are keeping up with the latest and greatest (a search for JTR Noesis brought up nothing in the Home Audio Speakers forum), because they seem to be on a tear. I've read nothing but high praise in every review.

And not to sound grouchy or jaded or snobby or anything like that, but if the Paradigm Studio 60s make it to the final 3, they will just be a waste of time. When the Salk, Philharmonic, and Ascends are getting so few votes, and Paradigm Studio 60s are leading the pack, I'm thinking there are a lot of casual readers voting in this poll. Ah well, majority rules.


----------



## lcaillo

I think it is important to have a very popular mainstream brand represented to see just how they measure up. I voted for the Paradigm for that reason. We do have a lot of casual readers, and not everyone keeps up with what is reported to be the latest and greatest. 

Actually, majority does not rule. Sonnie and John do, ultimately. But we want to create an event that many people will find interesting and useful. If all we have are more esoteric brands that most people are not familiar with, we do many readers a disservice. Having a well known speaker in the mix gives the review of the rest better context.


----------



## Sonnie

SteveCallas said:


> And not to sound grouchy or jaded or snobby or anything like that, but if the Paradigm Studio 60s make it to the final 3, they will just be a waste of time. When the Salk, Philharmonic, and Ascends are getting so few votes, and Paradigm Studio 60s are leading the pack, I'm thinking there are a lot of casual readers voting in this poll. Ah well, majority rules.


Have you actually heard these in a good room setup against other speakers in the same room?

I think they are getting high votes because Paradigm is likely the most advertised speaker on the list and has high ownership. A lot of people want to know how well they will fair against these others. They have also received a LOT of high praise in reviews. 

I remember you were one of the ones who was not all that impressed with the MartinLogan speakers you auditioned in a store, yet their lower end line was neck and neck with the Arx A5's as the best sounding speakers in our last event. I also owned the Boston Acoustics that you praised, yet was not that impressed with them. This simply proves how different people can like different speakers and how rooms may be effecting what we hear.


----------



## NBPk402

I think a it is very important that when you listen to a speaker in a store they be properly setup (unless you go to a high end salon they will not be setup properly, even then there is a chance they will not be setup properly). I remember going to several stores and listening to MLs and I hated the way they sounded... One day I walked in to a store that had them setup properly and I loved them.


----------



## a|F

SteveCallas said:


> Yeah, I don't know if folks here are keeping up with the latest and greatest (a search for JTR Noesis brought up nothing in the Home Audio Speakers forum), because they seem to be on a tear. I've read nothing but high praise in every review.
> 
> And not to sound grouchy or jaded or snobby or anything like that, but if the Paradigm Studio 60s make it to the final 3, they will just be a waste of time. When the Salk, Philharmonic, and Ascends are getting so few votes, and Paradigm Studio 60s are leading the pack, I'm thinking there are a lot of casual readers voting in this poll. Ah well, majority rules.


Agreed.

I'm still hoping the mystery speaker is something from PSA.


----------



## AudiocRaver

I am personally putting my trust in Sonnie taking the input from this poll and using his instincts to come up with a pretty good list of speakers to audition, "good" meaning a cross section including market representation and little-known-but-great-sounding, and even the odd-but-worth-giving-a-chance. Remember the trouble he went to getting Arx in the $1K lineup (as a little-known-but-promising entry).

I am not eligible to vote, but have my fingers crossed for Dynaudio - we hear little about them in the US, but they are highly praised in European pro audio circles.


----------



## lcaillo

You are eligible to vote. Not for the giveaway, though considering the incredible amount of work that you did on the last one you would deserve it.


----------



## Sonnie

Yeah... this voting has nothing to do with a giveaway and our votes as staff count as much as the next persons in what we want to hear.


----------



## SteveCallas

Sonnie said:


> Have you actually heard these in a good room setup against other speakers in the same room?
> 
> I think they are getting high votes because Paradigm is likely the most advertised speaker on the list and has high ownership. A lot of people want to know how well they will fair against these others. They have also received a LOT of high praise in reviews.
> 
> I remember you were one of the ones who was not all that impressed with the MartinLogan speakers you auditioned in a store, yet their lower end line was neck and neck with the Arx A5's as the best sounding speakers in our last event. I also owned the Boston Acoustics that you praised, yet was not that impressed with them. This simply proves how different people can like different speakers and how rooms may be effecting what we hear.


Yes, I've heard the Studio 60s and 100s vs other speakers in the same room. Paradigm Studios have a chesty or boxy sound - makes the upper bass seem too pronounced and the highs not clear enough. 

My impressions of the Martin Logan Summits are here. They were great speakers, but the one area they lacked in - top end clarity - is the one that I am most picky about, and thus I didn't pursue them. 

My salary has more than tripled since I purchased the Bostons, but every time I check back into the home theater hobby to see if there are some speakers that might make a nice upgrade, I get turned off for some reason - for the past several years it seems like companies are more worried about having a pair of floorstanding speakers play down to 20-30hz than they are about perfecting 80hz on up. They'll dedicate a good amount of displacement to the woofers in a 3 way, but set the crossover at <200hz - net effect is a small midrange handling the bulk of the audible frequency range - nothing inherently bad about it, but it's not going to be overengineered or extremely dynamic in that range. The Philharmonic 2 intrigued me with it's exotic tweeter and mid, but then only having a single woofer to cover the upper bass and down to 80hz kinda spoiled it for me again. 

This is why the Noesis speakers have caught my eye - a big, quality compression driver allowed to play down to 700hz by use of a massive horn, then a pair of high sensitivity drivers to handle the rest, but meant to be used with subwoofers. The majority of us here are going to be using monster subs nowadays, so why get redndant in the mains? I dunno, could be just me I guess. I really want to hear those. 


Sonnie - when is this get together? Any possibility you could use another set of ears?


----------



## Sonnie

SteveCallas said:


> Yes, I've heard the Studio 60s and 100s vs other speakers in the same room. Paradigm Studios have a chesty or boxy sound - makes the upper bass seem too pronounced and the highs not clear enough.
> 
> My impressions of the Martin Logan Summits are here. They were great speakers, but the one area they lacked in - top end clarity - is the one that I am most picky about, and thus I didn't pursue them.
> 
> My salary has more than tripled since I purchased the Bostons, but every time I check back into the home theater hobby to see if there are some speakers that might make a nice upgrade, I get turned off for some reason - for the past several years it seems like companies are more worried about having a pair of floorstanding speakers play down to 20-30hz than they are about perfecting 80hz on up. They'll dedicate a good amount of displacement to the woofers in a 3 way, but set the crossover at <200hz - net effect is a small midrange handling the bulk of the audible frequency range - nothing inherently bad about it, but it's not going to be overengineered or extremely dynamic in that range. The Philharmonic 2 intrigued me with it's exotic tweeter and mid, but then only having a single woofer to cover the upper bass and down to 80hz kinda spoiled it for me again.
> 
> This is why the Noesis speakers have caught my eye - a big, quality compression driver allowed to play down to 700hz by use of a massive horn, then a pair of high sensitivity drivers to handle the rest, but meant to be used with subwoofers. The majority of us here are going to be using monster subs nowadays, so why get redndant in the mains? I dunno, could be just me I guess. I really want to hear those.
> 
> 
> Sonnie - when is this get together? Any possibility you could use another set of ears?


With all the positive reviews on the Paradigms... that boxy sound is what I would think would be caused my positioning... but we will see.

Unfortunately we are booked on the panel... myself, Wayne, Leonard and Joe (all staff). Four is tough as it is. I would love to have several folks there, but for an evaluation like this... it is just not feasible. If it were a small GTG, it would be different.


----------



## AudioSavant

Sort of surprised that GENELEC wasn't in the running for some of their smaller stuff, as they would crush many of these in dynamics, sound staging and for sure accuracy. I just auditioned the new, all be it more expensive BRYSTON towers, the Model T, which at $6500 are obviously not in this range, and I now have to RUN to try and sell my B&W 802 as these were leaps & bounds so far advanced over the B&W it was almost tingling...without sounding too... you know! I hear (not literally), but have read that the BRYSTON Mini T has the exact same sonic signature, just one octave at the lower end removed. If that is the case
having heard the magi, PSB, Golden Ear, Dynaudio, and others on the list...those vendors should be quite concerned. I was EXTREEMLY impressed with the Model T BRYSTON


----------



## bob surkein

yes!


----------



## chaluga

AudioSavant said:


> Sort of surprised that GENELEC wasn't in the running for some of their smaller stuff, as they would crush many of these in dynamics, sound staging and for sure accuracy. I just auditioned the new, all be it more expensive BRYSTON towers, the Model T, which at $6500 are obviously not in this range, and I now have to RUN to try and sell my B&W 802 as these were leaps & bounds so far advanced over the B&W it was almost tingling...without sounding too... you know! I hear (not literally), but have read that the BRYSTON Mini T has the exact same sonic signature, just one octave at the lower end removed. If that is the case
> having heard the magi, PSB, Golden Ear, Dynaudio, and others on the list...those vendors should be quite concerned. I was EXTREEMLY impressed with the Model T BRYSTON


I seriously doubt the bryston would crush or even beat many _n this group. There using the axiom tweeter , enough said .


----------



## chashint

I have never read a review of the Paradigm studio 60 or 100 that used the word 'boxy' to describe the sound.
I have heard both speakers and while greatly preferring the 100's the Studio 60's were certainly no slouch either.
Everyone has their own opinion about the sound they prefer so I won't be critical of Boston Acoustics, but nothing in that lineup appeals tome.


----------



## AudiocRaver

OK, so I get to vote. It took awhile to decide which to vote for. Part of what is so fun about this price range is getting into some innovative designs, at both the transducer and the integrated speaker level. Of particular interest:


Ascend's RAAL tweeter, the impulse response, off-axis response
Gallo's hemispherical tweeter, their "lotsa small wide-range drivers" design (really want to hear the Ref 5's some time)
Definitive Tech's bipolar design , their sub design with driver and two radiators
Dynaudio - boring design - OK, that's not fair; let us say _more straightforward_ design - but interested in what the company can do, and boring [straightforward] designs can sound spectacular
GTA's flat panel, because it's a flat panel
Magnepan, because it's a flat panel, and because it's a Maggie
MartinLogan, because it's a flat panel, and because it's a ML
Tannoy's dual-concentric driver design - they abandoned it in their pro line, don't know why
Tekton Seas Pendragon - interested in Tekton and Eric Alexander's design philosophy
Vandersteen - still feel a little guilty about the 2Ce results in the $1K weekend
the DO NOT VOTE FOR MORE THAN THREE design also sounds intriguing - gotta vote for that one:rolleyesno:

Tough choice, but in the end voted for Ascend, Definitive Tech, and Dynaudio.


----------



## AudiocRaver

Is this a good idea or a bad idea?

As an evaluator, I like to look ahead of time at specs, features, descriptions of the speakers to be evaluated, and general comments by forum members of their experiences with the different brands and models, but I stay away from reading published reviews. It seems better to approach a speaker's subjectively-described qualities from a neutral position. On the other hand, other reviewers might point out insights that one could miss in a fairly short evaluation time like we have to work with

Thoughts?


----------



## AudiocRaver

Here is an evaluation idea that I have been playing with.

Each evaluator gets to choose 2 or 3 evaluation tracks which we then burn onto our evaluation CD. Then the evaluators are all using the same tracks played through the same player and signal path and are comparing apples to apples all the way through.

I have a few standard test tracks that I always turn to, but there are so many great tracks to choose from, so many kinds of material, each of which can emphasize a different speaker characteristic in a different musical context.

So here is an idea: For one of my tracks, compile a medley of 10- to 20-second snippets from a dozen or so tracks, just the part of the track that is most pertinent to listening for a particular _something_ in each speaker's delivery.

Upside:

We get to cover a lot of musical territory in 3 minutes.
Downside:

Sometimes the ear needs a little time to settle into a groove with a new evaluation track, to get into hearing the subtleties a track can reveal. Rushing through so much so quickly might be overwhelming and of little value.
It might drive the other evaluators nuts.
On the other hand:

If I practice ahead of time doing critical listening with that medley track, I should be able to get pretty good at "switching gears" with the sequence and quickly hearing what each snippet is intended to reveal. *Downside:* The other evaluators will not have the opportunity to do that. *On the other hand:* At the $1K weekend we quickly learned to make good use of each others tracks, so maybe we are adaptable enough that practice is not an issue.
Each evaluator already does a lot of skipping around, FF- and RW-ing, jumping back to a previous track, has free reign over his listening sequence within the evaluation CD, so it is like a pre-programmed version of that.
We do each have the chance to include our favorites, and if this is my favorite, well...:whistling:
Good idea? Bad idea?

If I proceed, anyone have a 15-second piece of a track that they think is amazingly effective and HAS to be included? If a couple are mentioned that are particularly intriguing, I might grab the CDs (gotta pay for it) and include them.


----------



## James Tanner

chaluga said:


> I seriously doubt the bryston would crush or even beat many _n this group. There using the axiom tweeter , enough said .


May I ask what you find unsatisfactory about the Axiom/Bryston tweeter? (I assume you have heard the Bryston speaker??)


James Tanner
Bryston


----------



## chashint

I like reading about the speakers ahead of time and the results of any shoot out falls into that category, but for me it is simply entertainment.
There is nothing wrong with going into an evaluation with preconceived expectations as long as you will still draw a 'data driven' conclusion.
More than once I had convinced myself on paper what I was going to buy, but when I auditioned it I just didn't hear the same thing all the 'reviewers' were hearing.
I do understand setup and rooms affect the sound, but if any speaker is overly difficult to setup it is not anything I want to deal with anyway. I do not have flexibility of placement.
The comments about the RF-62 being easy to setup and sounding good across multiple listening positions really struck home with me and that characteristic probably played a big part in my decision to go with Klipsch and may have also contributed to how well I thought they auditioned in a room full of speakers.
You just have to listen and let the music tell you if the things you read are true or not.


----------



## chashint

Picking music for speaker evaluation is tough because tastes and genres are so very different.
I think fewer tracks played over and over are better and as the field narrows to three speakers introducing more passages worked for me.
The opening passage of Hotel California emerged as my favorite narrow down the field selection.
It starts very simple, and adds layers, and then just as the vocal begins there is a tiny sound of bar chimes that many speakers fail to produce or resolve with enough clarity to pick out.
I avoid some of the standard bearers like Pink Floyd because there is no real world reference as to what it is supposed to sound like and I avoid Steely Dan because I didn't like it back in the day and the passage of time. Has not made the heart grow fonder.
Female voices have to be part of it, I like Natalie Merchant in the 10,000 Maniacs Unplugged.
It's tough to recommend for someone else, you have to like it and as you mentioned critically listen to it over and over....which can lead to never wanting to hear it again or the loss of just being able to enjoy it.


----------



## SteveCallas

chashint said:


> I have never read a review of the Paradigm studio 60 or 100 that used the word 'boxy' to describe the sound.


That's because speaker reviews are typically done by only listening to one pair of speakers - not comparing sets of speakers against each other by switching back and forth in real time. That's also what makes a speaker shootot like this more relevant (in my opinion) than just a standard speaker review. 

I wasn't trying to take a shot at Paradigm. Now that it was expained the group will test more than just the top 3 voted for, I have no issue - hopefully some of the more exotic speakers get in the mix.


----------



## AudiocRaver

chashint said:


> Picking music for speaker evaluation is tough because tastes and genres are so very different.
> I think fewer tracks played over and over are better and as the field narrows to three speakers introducing more passages worked for me.
> The opening passage of Hotel California emerged as my favorite narrow down the field selection.
> It starts very simple, and adds layers, and then just as the vocal begins there is a tiny sound of bar chimes that many speakers fail to produce or resolve with enough clarity to pick out.
> I avoid some of the standard bearers like Pink Floyd because there is no real world reference as to what it is supposed to sound like and I avoid Steely Dan because I didn't like it back in the day and the passage of time. Has not made the heart grow fonder.
> Female voices have to be part of it, I like Natalie Merchant in the 10,000 Maniacs Unplugged.
> It's tough to recommend for someone else, you have to like it and as you mentioned critically listen to it over and over....which can lead to never wanting to hear it again or the loss of just being able to enjoy it.


Thanks for the feedback. My intuition says you are right about sticking with fewer - and familiar - tracks and giving them some time to see what they reveal. The medley test track is just a nutty idea I thought worth seeing if it floats. And thanks for the test track suggestions. Luckily, my favorite test tracks have only become fonder to me through all the hearings - so far.


----------



## chashint

This forum does not have any Polk buzz (which is fine) but it might be interesting to see how RTi9's or the LSi towers would fare or maybe even a pair of Bose 901's.
Yes it would be very interesting to see how 901's would fare even though this is not a $1500/pr shoot out.


----------



## tesseract

AudiocRaver said:


> I am not eligible to vote, but have my fingers crossed for Dynaudio - we hear little about them in the US, but they are highly praised in European pro audio circles.


So many good choices! If I could vote for four, the Dyn would definitely be in the list. The best monitor I've heard is the Confidence C1 Signature.


----------



## Sonnie

Nothing wrong with Polk and Bose being in the mix... I am fine with it and would indeed like to evaluate those at some point in time.

Wayne... I have read dozens of reviews and comments on Magnepan, MartinLogan, Vandersteen and Klipsch, but I don't think any of that ever even entered my mind when I started evaluating. I felt like we were in our own environment that could be quite different than what other reviewers may be reviewing in and the sound could be quite different for us than it was for them. I do think our setup allows us to get the most out of the speakers we evaluate.

I also thought about the clips of various songs... taking only the portion we are going to listen to and copying that to the CD or USB flash drive... fading out of one song - pause for 2-3 seconds - start the next song or fade into just before that portion of the next song we want to hear. I think that best. I had no issues last time when skipping around to the parts of the tracks I really wanted to hear. Since you have the mixing abilities, I think you can easily make this happen for us.


----------



## Norcuron

It would have been interesting for the Klipsch RF-7s to be an option. If part of eval is rock music they do pretty good.


----------



## NewGuy3232

I voted for the Ascend Towers with RAAL, Tekton SEAS Pendragons, and the Phil slims. One thing thats expected from the RAAL tweeter is speed and neutrality. Should be a very good competition. And hopefully Sonnie Tekton sends you a pair of the SEAS Pendragons early so you can give it atleast a 100 hour burn-in this time.


----------



## chaluga

James Tanner said:


> May I ask what you find unsatisfactory about the Axiom/Bryston tweeter? (I assume you have heard the Bryston speaker??)
> 
> James Tanner
> Bryston


Your bryston speaker is several thousand dollars. The original axiom tweeter was a 10 buck tweeter in a thousand dollar speaker . I heard the axiom m 60 and thought it was terrible . The new axiom tweeter is again under 50 bucks. If your charging thousands of bucks for a speaker I would expect a tweeter in the hundreds like the raal tweeter .


----------



## chaluga

NewGuy3232 said:


> I voted for the Ascend Towers with RAAL, Tekton SEAS Pendragons, and the Phil slims. One thing thats expected from the RAAL tweeter is speed and neutrality. Should be a very good competition. And hopefully Sonnie Tekton sends you a pair of the SEAS Pendragons early so you can give it atleast a 100 hour burn-in this time.


Tekton won't be making the initial group and based on numbers wont make the second . I will be more interested in the pendragon 5.2 review as most of my.listening is for movies .


----------



## tesseract

chaluga said:


> Your bryston speaker is several thousand dollars. The original axiom tweeter was a 10 buck tweeter in a thousand dollar speaker . I heard the axiom m 60 and thought it was terrible . The new axiom tweeter is again under 50 bucks. If your charging thousands of bucks for a speaker I would expect a tweeter in the hundreds like the raal tweeter .


Driver cost isn't the only metric used to judge quality, nor is the same tweeter in a different application always going to sound the same.


----------



## chaluga

tesseract said:


> Driver cost isn't the only metric used to judge quality, nor is the same tweeter in a different application always going to sound the same.


Yet it should directly influence the total cost. I think in the under 1 k speakers I could live with low cost parts but in 3-5 k price I would want seos , scan speak , quality or better. Don't want to add anything else since this isn't 5k thread


----------



## callas01

tesseract said:


> So many good choices! If I could vote for four, the Dyn would definitely be in the list. The best monitor I've heard is the Confidence C1 Signature.


that is certianly one of my favorite speakers. imo, the focus 160s is the poorer mans version of the C1.


----------



## James Tanner

chaluga said:


> Your bryston speaker is several thousand dollars. The original axiom tweeter was a 10 buck tweeter in a thousand dollar speaker . I heard the axiom m 60 and thought it was terrible . The new axiom tweeter is again under 50 bucks. If your charging thousands of bucks for a speaker I would expect a tweeter in the hundreds like the raal tweeter .


Hi

The Bryston/Axiom tweeter design is extremely linear, has a very high compression limit, and very low distortion. These were all things we were looking for in our tweeter. Given the tests I have run the Bryston tweeter performs at a reference level and the fact that we can build it ourselves keeps costs and control over QC much more in our control. Also you have to really concern yourself with how the tweeter interacts with the other chosen drivers in your speaker system (which is true of all drivers in a speaker enclosure). From a design point of view the problem with most tweeters is the maximum SPL they can achieve before compression or distortion or plain blowing up. I wanted the Bryston speakers and especially the Model T to be able to play at real world levels without dynamic compression – which is one of the main issues I hear in many speakers (horns excepted)! On axis linearity is going to be pretty good with almost any tweeter these days through the critical band but good off axis is much harder to find. The Bryston/Axiom tweeter has very good max SPL capabilities because of the custom titanium dome, phase plug, and mechanical design elements incorporated in its design. It also has excellent off axis response as is apparent in the measurements of the finished product; (all the way out to 75 degrees) this is really important to hold a nice ‘sound power’ curve like we are doing in all the Bryston speaker models.

Ultimately people will have to judge for themselves whether they like the sound of the Bryston speakers or not but in my opinion, they offer state of the art sound at very affordable prices given their price/performance capabilities. Check out the reviews and customer responses so far and I think it speaks for itself that we have accomplished that goal.

James
V/P Bryston


----------



## AudiocRaver

Sonnie said:


> Wayne... I have read dozens of reviews and comments on Magnepan, MartinLogan, Vandersteen and Klipsch, but I don't think any of that ever even entered my mind when I started evaluating. I felt like we were in our own environment that could be quite different than what other reviewers may be reviewing in and the sound could be quite different for us than it was for them. I do think our setup allows us to get the most out of the speakers we evaluate.


No problem. Some reviews feel like ads, some seem hard to believe (can he really hear _that?_) or do not make sense, and there are certainly those of value, so I guess you have to know your reviewer or source. I often seek them out when considering a purchase, but usually have not felt driven to before evaluating myself. The exception is where new or unique technologies are involved and it can be useful to experience it through a trusted someone's ears, or if there is something I just don't "get" about a speaker's sound. Mostly, it seems funner to approach them fresh.



> I also thought about the clips of various songs... taking only the portion we are going to listen to and copying that to the CD or USB flash drive... fading out of one song - pause for 2-3 seconds - start the next song or fade into just before that portion of the next song we want to hear. I think that best. I had no issues last time when skipping around to the parts of the tracks I really wanted to hear. Since you have the mixing abilities, I think you can easily make this happen for us.


I will put together a sample and send it down to you. I favor having mostly long tracks which the listener can control, that worked well, but then I can think of a number of tracks where a certain 20 sec would be useful. I will do a sample with those, using short fades so it is not too jarring but is still fairly quick, and post the tracks and time ranges used.


----------



## ALMFamily

AudiocRaver said:


> No problem. Some reviews feel like ads, some seem hard to believe (can he really hear _that?_) or do not make sense, and there are certainly those of value, so I guess you have to know your reviewer or source. I often seek them out when considering a purchase, but usually have not felt driven to before evaluating myself. The exception is where new or unique technologies are involved and it can be useful to experience it through a trusted someone's ears, or if there is something I just don't "get" about a speaker's sound. Mostly, it seems funner to approach them fresh.
> 
> 
> 
> I will put together a sample and send it down to you. I favor having mostly long tracks which the listener can control, that worked well, but then I can think of a number of tracks where a certain 20 sec would be useful. I will do a sample with those, using short fades so it is not too jarring but is still fairly quick, and post the tracks and time ranges used.


I am of the same mind as you Wayne - I try not to read reviews unless I cannot get to hear / see the equipment. After I have heard them and formed my opinion, I do then take a look at other reviews to see what others thought.

I attended a GTG in April that had a number of good clips - I think I will try to put something together to bring down.


----------



## Redwingnine

Personally, I would like to see ATC speakers included. I got a pair of SCM-19's, which incorporate the Super Linear (SL) driver. One of the very few non-horn speakers that can play both loud and clan without breakup or distortion. Match them up with a SVS SB-13 Ultra, and it's nirvana. Truly outstanding. :T


----------



## showtime

I am also very interested in how the RAAL tweeter fares in a comparison. I voted for the Salk but if it ends up being the Ascend that is fine with me also. I would like to have that compared to the seas so the Tekton Pendragon is my next vote and my final vote went to the Triton Two. Looking forward to the seeing who the final contenders are and the results of the comparison.


----------



## vann_d

I voted for RBH Sound because of the rave reviews I've read over on Audioholics. They chose them for their purpose built demo home and they seem to be a great value.


----------



## Low-Q

I cant find ELAC speakers in the list... )
Nor Klipsch, JBL, KEF...Many good speakers that isn't included 
Vidar


----------



## Sonnie

That is correct... you want find them on the list if they were not included in this voting round.

You can nominate them next time the nominations open up. MSRP cannot exceed $3,000 ... typically no less than $2,000 to maintain an average of $2,500.


----------



## GranteedEV

jaypeecee said:


> Hello Home Theater Enthusiasts,
> 
> I would not choose any of these speakers. Instead, I am drawn to high fidelity products rather than fashionable names.
> 
> JPC


:sarcastic: right. 

I own a pair of the Philharmonci 2s, and they are as High Fidelity as it gets.

I also own some RBH-manufactured speakers, which are far from a fashionable name, but rather accurate.


----------



## Saturn94

GranteedEV said:


> :sarcastic: right.
> 
> I own a pair of the Philharmonci 2s, and they are as High Fidelity as it gets.
> 
> I also own some RBH-manufactured speakers, which are far from a fashionable name, but rather accurate.


Dennis will be thrilled to hear the Phils are now considered "fashionable"! :rofl:


----------



## mtodd

:a lot of great choices in the running though I have not listened to many of these there some that hold up well with much more expensive speakers. I will be interested to see the results 

.


----------



## joblain

Im surprised that the aperion verus grand is not in the voting list!? i saw really good reviews about those speakers and its in the 2500$ range.


----------



## Mike0206

joblain said:


> Im surprised that the aperion verus grand is not in the voting list!? i saw really good reviews about those speakers and its in the 2500$ range.


 been mentioned already and the reason is they are not matte black as per the criteria. Not necessarily needing to be a totally matte finish but not a piano gloss finish like the aperions. I believe that's a big reason for the speaker selection.


----------



## Sonnie

That is correct... but will not be an issue in the next round.


----------



## NewHTbuyer

Looks like the voting has slowed down. I guess we can see pretty much which speakers will be the winners.

Any more hints on the surprise entry? :huh:


----------



## Sonnie

I can throw you a curve ball... they are from a new company that is yet to be announced. :huh:


----------



## Mike0206

Sonnie said:


> I can throw you a curve ball... they are from a new company that is yet to be announced. :huh:


PSA?


----------



## Saturn94

Sonnie said:


> I can throw you a curve ball... they are from a new company that is yet to be announced. :huh:


I guess that rules out PSA.


----------



## Mike0206

Mike0206 said:


> PSA?


 as in new speaker line.....


----------



## Peter Loeser

Sonnie said:


> I can throw you a curve ball... they are from a new company that is yet to be announced. :huh:


Sonnie's Speaker Shack?


----------



## Sonnie

The company is yet to be announced! 

And no... I have absolutely nothing to do with it... although they will be a sponsor here at HTS.


----------



## Sonnie

Dynaudio is only 11 votes behind Magnepan... could be interesting down the wire.


----------



## Tonto

Peter L. wrote:



> Sonnie's Speaker Shack?


Wow, I never considered that!
Sonnie, all this time, you've been laying the ground work to announce your own speaker line?????:rubeyes:
Now is that business savy or what!!! :rofl:


----------



## Mike0206

Sonnie said:


> The company is yet to be announced!


 got it.....I was thinking the company was relatively new but the speakers are what was yet to be announced. I see the company is what is yet to be announced. Sorry been up since 1am, little slow right now. Lol


----------



## jeffreymercado

Could we swap the dynaudio from the D series to the excite 32s. They msrp for $2800.

I went to my local audio store and got to hear the B&W CM10s with the Golden Ears and the Dynaudio Excite 36s. Magnepans and lastly the Paradign 60s. Dynaudio really stood out to me as the clear favorite with more depth to Adele's voice on the first track of her album 19.

CM10s win for looks and came a close second. Surprisingly to me, the Golden Ears were a fuller sound but lacked the clarity they sounded muddy to me on higher frequencies as when Adele hit her high notes.

The Magnepans are a big speaker and they give you big sound, but to me they are best for dedicated 2 channel listening rooms

Paradigms were alright but to me lacked the detail and clarity of the Dynaudios or the B&Ws

I would love to hear how the excites compare as oppose to the DM series.


----------



## callas01

jeffreymercado said:


> Could we swap the dynaudio from the D series to the excite 32s. They msrp for $2800.
> 
> I went to my local audio store and got to hear the B&W CM10s with the Golden Ears and the Dynaudio Excite 36s. Magnepans and lastly the Paradign 60s. Dynaudio really stood out to me as the clear favorite with more depth to Adele's voice on the first track of her album 19.
> 
> CM10s win for looks and came a close second. Surprisingly to me, the Golden Ears were a fuller sound but lacked the clarity they sounded muddy to me on higher frequencies as when Adele hit her high notes.
> 
> The Magnepans are a big speaker and they give you big sound, but to me they are best for dedicated 2 channel listening rooms
> 
> Paradigms were alright but to me lacked the detail and clarity of the Dynaudios or the B&Ws
> 
> I would love to hear how the excites compare as oppose to the DM series.


A big +1


----------



## NewHTbuyer

Funk Audio?


----------



## NBPk402

Sonnie said:


> I can throw you a curve ball... they are from a new company that is yet to be announced. :huh:


Yet to be announced as a Company or as a Sponsor?


----------



## Sonnie

jeffreymercado said:


> Could we swap the dynaudio from the D series to the excite 32s. They msrp for $2800.


What is the difference between the Excite and the D/M? I think we would have to have unanimous consent from all who voted for the D/M.




NewHTbuyer said:


> Funk Audio?


It has been mentioned previously.




ellisr63 said:


> Yet to be announced as a Company or as a Sponsor?


Correct!


----------



## Mike0206

jeffreymercado said:


> Surprisingly to me, the Golden Ears were a fuller sound but lacked the clarity they sounded muddy to me on higher frequencies as when Adele hit her high notes.


 Not too surprising to me. It seems powered towers can be very sensitive to positioning more so than a non powered loudspeaker. If the volume control on the subs is set to high it can really mess with the overall clarity and imaging of the speakers. Muddy would definitely be the appropriate word. However a bit of toe in relieves the bass boom that is emanating from the sides of the speakers. Increases clarity and the mid and high frequencies are much cleaner. Having said that those golden ears are somewhat similar to my def techs in design with the exception of the tweeter assembly, after all the same guy started both companies. I have my speakers sub volume turned down to 11:00 roughly and that helps a lot as well. Once they get dialed in the reward is phenomenal.


----------



## callas01

Sonnie said:


> What is the difference between the Excite and the D/M? I think we would have to have unanimous consent from all who voted for the D/M.


the excites are more refined, better balanced, with the mid-range more fully fleshed out, highs are more delicate and airy. the 3/7s have stronger bass, but the mids are a little recessed in comparison and the lower trebble is a little tipped up.


----------



## jeffreymercado

Sonnie said:


> What is the difference between the Excite and the D/M? I think we would have to have unanimous consent from all who voted for the D/M.


The DM series is their low end offering the Excites really are a step up and are more in line with the competition. Certainly a better speaker in line with the competition would have no problem be accepted. Maybe instead of a full consensus of everyone who voted (over 500), it might be easier in anyone is opposed. The Excite series is a much better speaker.

They also just released a newer version of this line which would certainly ramp up our interests.

D/Ms are ho hum. Excites are YEAH WANT SOME. I hope that clarifies the difference and hope you will consider.

Thank you


----------



## Sonnie

The X32 does not come in Satin Black, so that is probably why it was excluded for this round. The new X34 appears it will come in Satin Lacquer Black and has an MSRP of $3,000 (I think). Of course it won't matter about color after this round.


----------



## english210

You do realize, of course, that there will have to be a 'sub-$5K' shoot out after this??? This will be way too much fun to stop, and like Doritos, no one can eat (listen to) just one!!! 

Hi, my name is Pete, and I'm an addict....


----------



## Sonnie

We do plan to hopefully conduct several of the $2,500 events... then perhaps we can move on up to the $5K area. It may get harder to find manufacturers willing to loan out speakers in that price range though. Maybe if the $2,500 events show enough interest, they will see the merits of participating.


----------



## JeffB

I was just looking at the SVS Ultra Towers $999 each. Has anybody heard these? These look like a good speaker for a future round. 
http://www.svsound.com/speakers/ultra-series


----------



## gorb

JeffB said:


> I was just looking at the SVS Ultra Towers $999 each. Has anybody heard these? These look like a good speaker for a future round.
> http://www.svsound.com/speakers/ultra-series


Those speakers are already selected to be a part of this. The SVS Ultra Towers, Emerald Physics CS2P's, and the yet to be announced speakers have already been selected. The voting is for three other candidates.


----------



## Sonnie

Yes... heard them at the Capital Audiofest... and they are already in this round. See the first post. :T


----------



## AudiocRaver

Sonnie said:


> Dynaudio is only 11 votes behind Magnepan... could be interesting down the wire.


Dynaudio! Dynaudio! Dynaudio!


----------



## NBPk402

10 now... I wonder if any will hit 600 votes.


----------



## jeffreymercado

I would drop the Paradigms from what I heard from them last week. Dynaudio and the Maggie's make for a great comparison


----------



## Tonto

I'm stunned that the Salk's and Ascends are not faring well! :huh:

They are the two that I was really looking forward to.


----------



## Sonnie

jeffreymercado said:


> I would drop the Paradigms from what I heard from them last week. Dynaudio and the Maggie's make for a great comparison


558 members may not necessarily agree with you though. :huh:

Where did you hear them and how were they setup... were you able to experiment with the setup? Do you think all those reviewers that have raved about how good they sound were exaggerating?


----------



## Mike0206

Sonnie said:


> Where did you hear them and how were they setup... were you able to experiment with the setup?


That always seems to be the biggest component to how speakers sound. That's why I really appreciate you guys doing what you do on these evaluations. You take the time to set toe in, toe out even playing with distances within reason and those are things you just can't really do in a room that has speakers lined up all around the walls. Some may benefit from that but most will only be affected to a detrimental degree in a setup like that. Keep up the good work guys and whoever makes it in on this evaluation I know without a doubt you guys will scrutinize every detail to make sure every manufacturer gets a fair shake. It may not be the result most people pick, like the last round, but no doubt we can be assured that it was a fair contest. Of course the only thing unfair is that this all is happening in YOUR ROOM! And not mine......lol


----------



## Mike0206

Weird reply inside a quote format? Is this an iOS7 thing?


----------



## jeffreymercado

Tonto said:


> I'm stunned that the Salk's and Ascends are not faring well! :huh:
> 
> They are the two that I was really looking forward to.


I second that I really wanted to see how they matched up against the competition. I guess since they are not that well known they didn't get the votes


----------



## NBPk402

Mike0206 said:


> That always seems to be the biggest component to how speakers sound. That's why I really appreciate you guys doing what you do on these evaluations. You take the time to set toe in, toe out even playing with distances within reason and those are things you just can't really do in a room that has speakers lined up all around the walls. Some may benefit from that but most will only be affected to a detrimental degree in a setup like that. Keep up the good work guys and whoever makes it in on this evaluation I know without a doubt you guys will scrutinize every detail to make sure every manufacturer gets a fair shake. It may not be the result most people pick, like the last round, but no doubt we can be assured that it was a fair contest. Of course the only thing unfair is that this all is happening in YOUR ROOM! And not mine......lol


Years ago I went ot Keith Yates Audio in Sacramento and in his store he had only one pair of speakers in a room that was setup like a well treated living room. If you wanted to listen to a dif pair of speakers they would remove the pair on display and bring out the pair you wanted to listen to. It was there that I fell in love with ML Sequels! Most stores I went into did not take the time to set them up properly and I didn't like the way they sounded.


----------



## AudiocRaver

Mike0206 said:


> That always seems to be the biggest component to how speakers sound. That's why I really appreciate you guys doing what you do on these evaluations. You take the time to set toe in, toe out even playing with distances within reason and those are things you just can't really do in a room that has speakers lined up all around the walls. Some may benefit from that but most will only be affected to a detrimental degree in a setup like that. Keep up the good work guys and whoever makes it in on this evaluation I know without a doubt you guys will scrutinize every detail to make sure every manufacturer gets a fair shake. It may not be the result most people pick, like the last round, but no doubt we can be assured that it was a fair contest. Of course the only thing unfair is that this all is happening in YOUR ROOM! And not mine......lol


I certainly have to agree. I heard Paradigm Mini Monitors in a shop out East, one mid-room and the other up against a window, they never had a chance to sound good. You know the folks operating those audio shops have a lot to juggle, though, and like you say, to really make them shine can take awhile.

While the Paradigms do not sound as exciting to me to audition as some of the less-heard-of models, there is no doubt they make some nice speakers, and - bottom line - the great sounding speakers end up being the funnest ones, however exotic or simple the design.


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## jeffreymercado

Sonnie said:


> 558 members may not necessarily agree with you though. :huh:
> 
> Where did you hear them and how were they setup... were you able to experiment with the setup? Do you think all those reviewers that have raved about how good they sound were exaggerating?


You are absolutely correct. I apologize for my quick assumptions. All the speakers were in a small room in less than ideal placements. All the speakers were right next to each other. Our seating position was no more than 3ft.

So again I apologize. I will also admit that initially we could not hear a difference between the Dynaudio and the Paradigms. Until he played Adele that I guess emphasized higher frequencies that the shortcomings of the speaker at least to me were exposed. The Dynaudios just had more depth to her voice to me than the CM 10s or the Paradigms. 

The Paradigms just sounded veiled lacking the detail and clarity compared to the other two. It's going to be very interesting when properly placed how they compare.

Since there is so much interests in the other brands (Salk and Ascend) maybe two rounds? The initial round and then the winner of the first round against the four that didn't make it?

We can't get enough of comparisons


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## Sonnie

We plan to have several rounds, Lord willing.

I think what we will likely do is go ahead and take the top three from this round that just miss the cut (speakers ranked 4th thru 6th in this poll), which right now would be the Dynaudio DM 3/7 (or Excite 32 or 34), Tannoy Precision 6.2 and Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers. Then we will have another poll to vote for the other three to be included, but we will have several more added to the list.

For the third $2,500 round, we will do the same... take the top three that miss the cut from the second round and vote for three more. Hopefully we can have between 2-3 events per year, but we will just have to see. It is time consuming, expensive and it sometimes can be difficult to schedule with people flying in from several different areas. 

As far as a winner... that really isn't what it is going to be about, as much as evaluating the speakers and pointing out what we hear. This isn't designed to be a "shoot-out" where we will rank them. We could easily all choose different favorites... and we will probably all state our personal favorites, but you might pick one different, depending on your taste. Either way, it may be difficult to always be able to have our "favorite" or "favorites" back for the next round. Obviously my Arx A5 will be here for this next round and each round thereafter, but it is hardly a fair comparison considering $750 vs $2,000-$3,000, yet it may be unfair to the more expensive models... who knows. I am not sure I can afford a pair of these speakers we will be evaluating, so there is no guarantee my personal favorite of this event will be around for the next event.


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## Jason_Nolan

I feel like I should've did the search before I voted blindly. Obviously the most interesting speakers here based on the engineering and excitement factor should be:
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower (RAAL Tweeter)
GT Audio Works GTA 1
Von Schweikert VR-22


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## Redwingnine

I owned Maggie 1.7's for awhile. To me, they had way too much lower bass distortion to keep long term. Also, they need a lot of room to sound their best. Wonderful HF performance. 

For the same cost, the ATC SCM-19's perform much better.


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## joblain

Yeah, the ascend with raal tweeter seams to be a really good speakers. I will be sad to not see in them in the competition. I was waiting that voting pool and reviews before ordering. I'm two fingers close of pushing the order button on their Web site, I wanted to be sure to see their value vs all those other good brand before pulling the trigger.


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## OZZIERP

jeffreymercado said:


> I would drop the Paradigms from what I heard from them last week. Dynaudio and the Maggie's make for a great comparison


Were those Studio's because I may be bias but I listened to a lot of speakers at my budget point and although mine are 100's and not 60's I found them pretty amazing at their price point.
Did I hear better yes but at another grand higher.


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## jeffreymercado

They were the Studios but they were in a room with a bunch of other speakers. They weren't ideally set up. But neither were the others. I really wanted to know how the Salks compared to the Ascends. I too am looking to pull the trigger on the Ascends but the Dynaudios are great


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## joblain

jeffreymercado said:


> They were the Studios but they were in a room with a bunch of other speakers. They weren't ideally set up. But neither were the others. I really wanted to know how the Salks compared to the Ascends. I too am looking to pull the trigger on the Ascends but the Dynaudios are great


Did you hear the dynaudio?


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## jeffreymercado

Yes they were the Excite 36 speakers and although they were comparable to the B & W CM10s, I felt like the Dynaudios had that extra depth that won me over. Of course the CM10s win for looks. The replacements for the Dynaudios are the Exite 38s and they look a lot better


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## Sonnie

Getting down to the nitty gritty and the top three are still hanging tight.


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## amian

It just so happened that i am in the process of upgrading/changing my front three speakers and have spent a few week looking through a lot of material in this quest. My final three were Seas Pendragon, Sierra towers, and slim tower.


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## AudiocRaver

amian said:


> It just so happened that i am in the process of upgrading/changing my front three speakers and have spent a few week looking through a lot of material in this quest. My final three were Seas Pendragon, Sierra towers, and slim tower.


Welcome to Home Theater Shack.

Hopefully our results will be published in time to help you make your decision.:bigsmile:


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## joblain

It's bad to see that the Salk song tower and ascend acoustics are similar speakers in performance, there doing around 700 votes together but won't make the top 6. I would really like to see a ribbon for the competition.


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## Sonnie

They will eventually make one of the evaluations (not really a competition).


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## gtpsuper24

James Tanner said:


> The Bryston/Axiom tweeter design is extremely linear, has a very high compression limit, and very low distortion. These were all things we were looking for in our tweeter. Given the tests I have run the Bryston tweeter performs at a reference level and the fact that we can build it ourselves keeps costs and control over QC much more in our control. Also you have to really concern yourself with how the tweeter interacts with the other chosen drivers in your speaker system (which is true of all drivers in a speaker enclosure). From a design point of view the problem with most tweeters is the maximum SPL they can achieve before compression or distortion or plain blowing up. I wanted the Bryston speakers and especially the Model T to be able to play at real world levels without dynamic compression – which is one of the main issues I hear in many speakers (horns excepted)! On axis linearity is going to be pretty good with almost any tweeter these days through the critical band but good off axis is much harder to find. The Bryston/Axiom tweeter has very good max SPL capabilities because of the custom titanium dome, phase plug, and mechanical design elements incorporated in its design. It also has excellent off axis response as is apparent in the measurements of the finished product; (all the way out to 75 degrees) this is really important to hold a nice ‘sound power’ curve like we are doing in all the Bryston speaker models.
> 
> Ultimately people will have to judge for themselves whether they like the sound of the Bryston speakers or not but in my opinion, they offer state of the art sound at very affordable prices given their price/performance capabilities. Check out the reviews and customer responses so far and I think it speaks for itself that we have accomplished that goal.
> 
> James
> V/P Bryston



The only problem I see is that the tweeter can't play at reference level since you need to use two tweeter in each tower. Obviously its not that great of a tweeter since Axiom and the Bryston speakers need multiples to achieve the design goal. Paradigm Studio and Sig series only uses one tweeter, PSB, Monitor Audio, Focal, and many others. The have no issues playing reference levels with one quality dome tweeter. 

The other issue I don't find attractive about the Bryston speakers is at the prices they use some pretty cheap looking parts. I mean your using cheapest of the cheap binding posts in your $4400 A1 towers?


That price is also the price for the standard vinyl wrap while your main competition in B&M stores have fancier cabinets, extremely high quality piano gloss, very high end binding posts, elegant outriggers and feet and your speakers look like a Best Buy speaker that may sound nice but offers no where near the level of quality of your main competition. 

Do they cheaper parts do the same as the more fancier ones? Yes, but when your asking these prices there is an expected level of quality that goes along with it.


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## hyghwayman

Sheep said:


> Ok, I voted.


It's good to see ya back on the forums :T


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## gorb

Looks like these three are going to make it:
Magnepan 1.7
MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL
Paradigm Studio 60 

The Dynaudios are pretty close, though. Too bad none of the ID speakers made it in.


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## Sonnie

Yep... and the Dynaudio will make the event, if we can get them to participate. Hopefully with the Excite model instead of the DM. Unfortunately the mystery speaker has had some delays, so maybe we can work it into the next round.

Poll is now closed.

More info to come in the next day or two.


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## Mike0206

Looks to be a descent mix of speaker types so that's pleasing. Looking forward to the final results as well as the evaluation. Good job guys.


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## Sonnie

I was just informed by Walter at Underwood HiFi that Emerald Physics is going to have to pass, as they do not have time to get the speakers ready, despite they are a sponsor and previously committed to including them. I am certainly disappointed, but it is what it is. Going forward... we will not do anymore automatic including... all speakers will be voted on and then if any manufacturer decides not to include their speaker, it will speak to all who voted for them.

So... the Tannoy Precision 6.2 speakers are in... provided can get them to participate. I will make the call tomorrow and find out.


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## JBrax

Sonnie said:


> I was just informed by Walter at Underwood HiFi that Emerald Physics is going to have to pass, as they do not have time to get the speakers ready, despite they are a sponsor and previously committed to including them. I am certainly disappointed, but it is what it is. Going forward... we will not do anymore automatic including... all speakers will be voted on and then if any manufacturer decides not to include their speaker, it will speak to all who voted for them. So... the Tannoy Precision 6.2 speakers are in... provided can get them to participate. I will make the call tomorrow and find out.


Sounds like a bad way to do business. Poor customer service is often the difference between success and failure for a company. A public forum such as Home Theater Shack should be an opportunity to exhibit exceptional customer service.


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## Sonnie

Yeah.... the publicity he would get for those speakers here would top just about anything else he has going on, but sometimes we are blinded by our ignorance. Been there and done that myself a few times. 

I have no idea if his speakers would have been voted in for this round... somewhat doubt it... and it could now be quite some time before they will get evaluated. We can only do so much for our sponsors and if they are not willing to work with us, then it will limit what we can do for them. :huh:


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## AudiocRaver

I, too, am quite disappointed. It looks like an interesting design. I am hoping to be able to hear the Dynaudio's, if we can get participation there.

Could be that some speaker makers are nervous to have their products compared directly with their competition. Looking back, it is almost a bit funny to think that there was some initial reluctance about having the Arx A5's in the $1K event because Jon was not totally confident that we knew what we were doing and would be able to evaluate them fairly - it is good we were able to convince him to participate! I hope by now we have dispelled any doubts about our approach, our thoroughness and fairness.

But there could be other circumstances altogether. Whatever the case, it is a big lost opportunity for them.


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## Sonnie

Okay... Walter called, the EP CS2P's are being built as we speak and will be shipped out to me by Monday. They are back in. He apologized and felt bad about the situation. When we had last talked he was about to leave for vacation and just plain forgot... then got backed up getting ready for RMAF, but he is making time to get these done.

I am glad because I was seriously looking forward to hearing these after all the great things that have been said about them at the shows.


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## Tonto

I'm really glad Walter reconsidered, as I feel these speakers will have a real shot with the "on hand" competiton. I was intrigued by his designs when he first became a sponsor...this is gonna be fun!


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## Mike0206

That's great to hear that he's pulling through for you guys. It will be to their benefit as well as to the benefit of the HTS community for them to showcase what they got and for you guys to evaluate them.


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## bkeeler10

I thought I was subscribed to this thread, but apparently not. Had some catching up to do.

Perhaps the coolest part about these evaluations is that I might have my eyes (ears?) opened to something new and different that I had not heard of or had not considered. That was certainly the case with the Arx A5 -- now I feel like I have to hear them before making a decision for my next pair of speakers. To that end, I'm glad that Emerald Physics is back in for this round.


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## NewHTbuyer

Some manufacturers I have spoken to in the past definitely worry that the room, setup, associated equipment and level matching might not be spot on and thus their speakers might not get a fair shake. Others legitimately worry that too good a showing will lead to a sudden surge in demand that some small, boutique operations can't handle. That would lead to severe shipping delays and the dreaded posts complaining about how long it takes company X to deliver a product. Still, you guys are not some dudes doing poorly organized comparison, you are a legitimate website with experience. I would think that any chance to get good exposure would generally trump the other concerns. I am also glad the Emerald Physics is back in, it was impressive at the last show I attended.


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## AudiocRaver

That is good news. Excellent! I have lost track, does that push the Dynaudio's off the list?


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## Sonnie

No... the Dynaudio's are still in, provided they participate. I have not had a firm confirmation yet.


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## joblain

Ascend didn't make this evaluation?


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## Sonnie

Not this round, but they will automatically included in the next round with their current vote total... provided the manufacturer is willing to participate.


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## Sonnie

Dynaudio DM 3/7's are confirmed... they will ship out early next week. :T


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## FJR

gtpsuper24 said:


> The only problem I see is that the tweeter can't play at reference level since you need to use two tweeter in each tower. Obviously its not that great of a tweeter since Axiom and the Bryston speakers need multiples to achieve the design goal. Paradigm Studio and Sig series only uses one tweeter, PSB, Monitor Audio, Focal, and many others. The have no issues playing reference levels with one quality dome tweeter. The other issue I don't find attractive about the Bryston speakers is at the prices they use some pretty cheap looking parts. I mean your using cheapest of the cheap binding posts in your $4400 A1 towers? That price is also the price for the standard vinyl wrap while your main competition in B&M stores have fancier cabinets, extremely high quality piano gloss, very high end binding posts, elegant outriggers and feet and your speakers look like a Best Buy speaker that may sound nice but offers no where near the level of quality of your main competition. Do they cheaper parts do the same as the more fancier ones? Yes, but when your asking these prices there is an expected level of quality that goes along with it.


Multiple tweeters are becoming much more common. I would not write them off, especially a company like Bryston who focus on musicality. I would guess they focused more on sound quality vs aesthetics to get a speaker line going. Having said that I have not heard them so I am going on reputation at this point.


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## Sonnie

Consider the Tekton Pendragons that have garnered a LOT of positive feedback... with three tweeters. I don't think much about the design and certainly don't want to make assumptions if I have not heard the speakers. I made some assumptions based on designs prior to our $1,000 speaker event and was a bit surprised.


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## FJR

Or the Ken Kresiel Q125 with four tweeters. Only see them in Europe so far. Has the subs in the US. 

http://www.lsound.eu/ken-kreisel/ken-kreisel-q125-trifx.html


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## jmschnur

Dispersion patterns are very important . setting up multiple tweeters with proper coherence may well enhance imaging .

One would have to listen prior to judgement .


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## callas01

Sonnie said:


> Dynaudio DM 3/7's are confirmed... they will ship out early next week. :T


That's goods news.


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## fokakis1

I am pumped about the Emerald Physics and Dynaudios. This just got much more interesting.


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## janick

Sonnie said:


> Yep... and the Dynaudio will make the event, if we can get them to participate. Hopefully with the Excite model instead of the DM. Unfortunately the mystery speaker has had some delays, so maybe we can work it into the next round.
> 
> Poll is now closed.
> 
> More info to come in the next day or two.


Eagerly waiting :bigsmile:


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## ecc6c2

This is my first post on this forum but I've been a long time lurker and have gotten lots of great information from hometheatershack over the last few years.

Its good to hear that Walter was able to participate in this event and I am eagerly waiting to see how the Emerald Physics CS2P's stack up against the competition. 

I've owned the Emerald Physics CS-2.3 speakers for about a year now and have nothing but good things to say about both the speakers and the service I've gotten from Walter. I bought the speakers used from a guy in St. Louis and had a few minor issues after getting them home and setup. I emailed Walter about the issues and got a phone call from him within 30 minutes of sending the email. He was very informative and helpful and the issues were quickly resolved. 

The CS-2.3's do take some time to setup properly but when completed will deliver a holographic soundstage, unlimited dynamics, excellent bass, etc.. Granted, the CS2P's are a a different speaker but I expect they'll have similar qualities.


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## tesseract

fokakis1 said:


> I am pumped about the Emerald Physics and Dynaudios. This just got much more interesting.


Agreed, this is going to be quite an event!


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## NewHTbuyer

ecc6c2 said:


> This is my first post on this forum but I've been a long time lurker and have gotten lots of great information from hometheatershack over the last few years.
> 
> Its good to hear that Walter was able to participate in this event and I am eagerly waiting to see how the Emerald Physics CS2P's stack up against the competition.
> 
> I've owned the Emerald Physics CS-2.3 speakers for about a year now and have nothing but good things to say about both the speakers and the service I've gotten from Walter. I bought the speakers used from a guy in St. Louis and had a few minor issues after getting them home and setup. I emailed Walter about the issues and got a phone call from him within 30 minutes of sending the email. He was very informative and helpful and the issues were quickly resolved.
> 
> The CS-2.3's do take some time to setup properly but when completed will deliver a holographic soundstage, unlimited dynamics, excellent bass, etc.. Granted, the CS2P's are a a different speaker but I expect they'll have similar qualities.


Are the CS2Ps coming with the full DSP upgrade or just the speakers?


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## Sonnie

With the DSP.


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## ecc6c2

I thought the DSP was a $850 upgrade, that would boost the price of the CS2P's up near 4k.

Any idea if the CS2Ps will be biamped during the evaluation?


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## NewHTbuyer

Sonnie said:


> With the DSP.


Maybe it was already mentioned, but what is the full MSRP with the DSP? Isn't it lke $3500 or so?

Thanks!


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## Sonnie

We have to remember this is the owner of the company and he sales them direct, so he can put any MSRP on the products that he wants to, but he never EVER gets MSRP. He will tell you himself that he offers the CS2P with the DSP for $3,000 everyday, which is his retail asking price on Audiogon, where he makes the bulk of his sales. He will even discount it further for HTS forum members to $2,850. 

We are going to test the speakers without the DSP... and may not even use it. It is designed to make it flat down to 20Hz, but for music I am not sure we even need it... we will see.

We will not be bi-amping any of the speakers. We will have a much more powerful two-channel solid state amp in the Anthem Integrated 225... 225 wpc at 8 ohms and 310 wpc at 4 ohms. So no speakers will be short of power. We also hope to listen to them with the Rogue Cronus Magnum and the Audio Space Galaxy 88 integrated tube amps.


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## gorb

I just looked up those Emerald Physics speakers and they do look very interesting.


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## AudiocRaver

Sonnie said:


> With the DSP.


Wonderful! Toys within toys!


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## AudiocRaver

Sonnie said:


> We have to remember this is the owner of the company and he sales them direct, so he can put any MSRP on the products that he wants to, but he never EVER gets MSRP. He will tell you himself that he offers the CS2P with the DSP for $3,000 everyday, which is his retail asking price on Audiogon, where he makes the bulk of his sales. He will even discount it further for HTS forum members to $2,850.
> 
> We are going to test the speakers without the DSP... and may not even use it. It is designed to make it flat down to 20Hz, but for music I am not sure we even need it... we will see.
> 
> We will not be bi-amping any of the speakers. We will have a much more powerful two-channel solid state amp in the Anthem Integrated 225... 225 wpc at 8 ohms and 310 wpc at 4 ohms. So no speakers will be short of power. We also hope to listen to them with the Rogue Cronus Magnum and the Audio Space Galaxy 88 integrated tube amps.


Bi-amping would take way too long. So could setting up DSP.... _sigh_, but it is worth looking at.

With mult tweeters, the listener's height re speaker can be important. We will consider it carefully.


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## callas01

Have any if the speakers come in yet?


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## Sonnie

Yes... ML's, EP's and SVS Ultra's.


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## KLH007

I just heard Wally's room at RMAF, one of the very best sounding rooms, and very inexpensive. He had the CS3 MK2s, DSP, Jolida tube CD/DAC, EP100.2SE amp,2 REL small subs, and cables all for $9K. Very open, great soundstage, detailed without being bright or edgy, big dynamics, and with the subs- great bass extension and power, "regular" music sounded superb, not just audiophile standards, a room many $40K to $60K rooms couldn't top! If the CS2P's sound anything like the CS3s, watch out for this sleeper.


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## bkeeler10

I agree it did sound nice. It was one of the handful of rooms that made me linger for a bit to listen. I didn't really know much about Emerald Physics, and confess to being surprised that this speaker uses a compression tweeter. Not one I normally associate with good hifi. But that wasn't the only preconception that was shattered for me at RMAF. Enjoyed the show.


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## Sonnie

The center seat on the back row (only two rows in that room) was actually the best seat in his room. The front seat was producing some slight smearing in the imaging, although it still sounded good. 

Those rooms were so small that it would have been hard to just have one seat, but that is what I would have done if faced with that situation. I would not want anyone to hear my setup in a "non-prime" listening position. I saw a LOT of folks come into rooms, sit down in a seat that I know for a fact sounded terrible in comparison to the prime seat, and they got up and left a minute or two later. There is absolutely NO way they left with a good impression.

I am looking forward to hearing these we have in my room now, where we know they will have a much better room for setup and placement.


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## bkeeler10

Given the number of people at a show, it is not possible to provide everyone with a good seat. Sad reality of course. But I see your point -- why even allow someone to listen if that listening will not paint a good picture? Our room had serious overemphasis on the bass when standing, which was why I asked people to sit when they came in.

One would hope that most people that attend a show like RMAF understand that they cannot get a good impression of a speaker's performance without being in the right place. However, I was always surprised when a person would come into our otherwise empty room and sit at a seat that was not at least centered about the speakers (whether front row or back). Really? I waited in rooms I was interested in hearing for several minutes in some cases to get the right seat.


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## Sonnie

Yeah... I did not always get a chance to listen from the prime seat, but I also did not make any judgment based on where I was. Yet, I knew that either Joe, Wayne or Dennis was going to be eventually sitting in that prime seat so that they could make "legitimate" observations, so it was not as important for me, although there were some rooms where I had a chance to listen in that prime seat.

It was really nice meeting you Bryan. We did finally get to meet with Ken as well... and we are looking forward to reviewing some of the Induction Dynamics and Phase Technology products.

I can hardly wait to get this $2,500 event underway. The RMAF just got us all more pumped. We are hoping to have a couple of really nice surprises for our readers... including a 5.0 home theater setup costing approximately $12K and a $20K two-channel setup, both of which we will review during the event. This is going to be really good!


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## bkeeler10

Sonnie, I'm glad you found Ken. 

It was wonderful to meet Sonnie and Joe (ALMFamily) there. I just have to say that I and those of my company who were there with them in our room were duly impressed by the rigorous nature of their audition. They spent at least half an hour there, while Joe sat in the sweet spot and listened to various tracks he had brought and scribbled notes much of the time. The most extensive and thorough audition anyone made in our room, including other members of the press, and I personally look forward to hearing their impressions of that and everything else they heard. Given the somewhat subjective nature of these things, no one's opinion can be taken to mean that you will feel the same way. However, whatever their opinions might be, anyone who reads them should know that they were not formed haphazardly and they are legitimate. As far as I'm concerned, these guys are a class act.


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## Picture_Shooter

Sonnie said:


> Yes... ML's, EP's and SVS Ultra's.


I enjoyed listening to the SVS Ultra towers this past Sunday @ RMAF. Eyes are peeled! :bigsmile:


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## KLH007

Picture_Shooter said:


> I enjoyed listening to the SVS Ultra towers this past Sunday @ RMAF. Eyes are peeled! :bigsmile:


The SVS towers sounded great at RMAF, and even better at CAF. At $2K/pr, not many can match the fit/finish/looks/sonics of them. Looking forward to this comparison.


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## Greenster

Can't wait. You need to post some pics to get us even more excited.


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## AudiocRaver

The RMAF weekend gave us a great introduction to some of the speakers we will be evaluating at the upcoming event.

I got a good dose of Dynaudio's, not the DM 3/7 but the Excite series, and a more expensive bookshelf model (still haven't unpacked, have to dig out my notes for the model number). They all seemed to do everything right and go a step beyond that. More details in the upcoming show writeup.

We were in the SVS room for quite awhile. They have put a lot of work into refining the high end on those towers.

And the Emerald Physics offerings were a lot of fun, have always been a fan of the concentric mid/tweeter idea if implemented successfully, so I spent a lot of time with them. There was a vocal passage that we like to test with that consistently pulled some image smearing, but knowing how sensitive such matters are to placement, we are reserving judgment on that until we get a chance to optimize their setup in a known good room in November. Overall, the EPs were a fun listen.

Now, on to Sonnie's place where we can really put these speakers through their paces!


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## callas01

I wasnt at the show, but im pretty sure they were showing the C1 Signature according to their facebook page. look forward to your write up.


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## AudiocRaver

callas01 said:


> I wasnt at the show, but im pretty sure they were showing the C1 Signature according to their facebook page. look forward to your write up.


Thanks for the memory jogger, it was the C1 Signature, and they were _great!_


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## Joshua Quain

3. Definitive Tech BP-8080ST
4. Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4
5. Philharmonic Slim Tower
6. RGB Sound 1266-SE


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## Savjac

Having just finished my first year with the Martin Logans, I can say they shine in many areas but there sure are some wonderful other speakers in this listen off. I look forward to reading the end results when they are ready and cannot imagine how fun and yet how hard this will be. 

Good Luck Gents


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## Sonnie

It's on!

The official thread is up!

*The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event*


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## Sonnie

*The $3,000 Speaker Evaluation Nomination Thread* is now open... be sure to nominate the speakers you would like to see in the voting poll.


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## AudiocRaver

Zowie! More cool speakers! Does it get any better?


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