# Opinions sought: Add 2nd Emotiva sub, or go SVS?



## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

I've recently moved out of the condo and purchased a house, very exciting!

I FINALLY got my system fully set up a couple of nights ago (full 7.1 this time, also very exciting). On the up side, the new living room is bigger and actually has room for a proper 7.1 set up with space between the seating position and the back wall, but on the down side, this is multi-purpose room (no dedicated theater for me any time soon) and equally relevant: it's something of a nightmare acoustically. It's not huge (about 18.5 x 19), it's nearly square, and it has large openings: on the right to another, even larger room, and it's entirely open in the back to the kitchen (which is only a bit smaller than the LR). Sound treatments MIGHT help but that's going to be a tough sell with a designer for a wife. I'd provide some of the fancy acoustical charts that are so popular on here, but I don't have all the gear needed to do so, although it's on my list.










Here's the rub: I've noticed that the bass is not as nice as it was in my smaller condo living room. Not a huge surprise in retrospect, but now I have to figure out what to do.

These speakers are being pushed by a Denon 3312 receiver:
Klipsch RF-35 Floorstanders
Klipsch RC-35 Center
Klipsch RS-41 II Surrounds (side)
Klipsch RB-42 II Bookshelfs (back)
Emotiva Ultra Sub 12

My first instinct is to add a second Emotiva Ultra 12. Two matched subs are something I've wanted for a while anyway, and the price is definitely right at $400 (buying a house and getting everything settled has decimated my spare cash, to say the least). My receiver does have a second sub output, although it's just an internal splitter and Audyssey MultEQ XT treats them as one sub. Sub placement is pretty limited as well, due to WAF issues, os it will probably need to go on the other side of the TV, mirroring the existing one. The SVS AQ-1 is out of reach for now, too, so EQ and optimization options are pretty limited at the moment.

So the question is, would adding the second Emo sub really help me out to get the bass I want to feel, or am I really going to be out of luck with anything short of a significantly more beefy sub in teh $500-800 range (or better, something like the $1200 SB13 Plus... triple the cost of the Emo!)? (Or another interesting option, the HSU ULS-15 for $1100... but again, these high end subs are going to be out of my price range for a while to come... even the $800 range is going to be tough)


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If you want 20Hz extension get a sub that has 20Hz extension. If you want more of what you have then get another Emotiva.
I would think the speakers you have will go as low as the Emotiva though.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

It would be better if you got a second Emotiva Ultra Sub 12 as integrating two different subs into a system is very difficult. That said the SVS is a fantastic sub and could work as well.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

I wouldn't add a different brand sub to the mix, I'd sell the Emo (or better, rotate it into bedroom service) and replace it instead. If I wasn't adding a second, matched Emo, that is.

Based on feedback I've gotten elsewhere, I think the thing to do is abandon my hopes of a cheap solution and put my money towards a Hsu VTF-15H. The combined overall space is uncomfortably close to 7000cf of air to move, so I'm going to need something exceptionally beefy if I want to truly feel the bass. (The SVS PB-13 Ultra would probably do the trick, too, but that's even more out of my price range than the PB-13 Plus.)


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

You an I have similar large open spaces. I'm very happy with the new pb12-NSD, but if you have room for something a little larger, I would wager you could use the added headroom of the plus. My initial impressions of the PB12-NSD here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/svsound/50176-pb12-nsd-2011-version-way-review-video.html


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

eugovector said:


> You an I have similar large open spaces. I'm very happy with the new pb12-NSD, but if you have room for something a little larger, I would wager you could use the added headroom of the plus. My initial impressions of the PB12-NSD here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/svsound/50176-pb12-nsd-2011-version-way-review-video.html


I posted in your thread a few days ago, I think. I do look forward to part 2... Hope you have some time this weekend!

The SVS pb12-nsd had been tops on my list, but this house just seems to eat bass alive... And based on my cf measurements, people seem to keep pushing me towards the higher end units. I'll take another look at the lower SVS (pb12-nsd instead if the spendier pb12-plus I had been looking at) before committing to anything. The cost is close, though noticeable. SVS pb12-nsd is $769 shipped, and the Hsu VTF-15H is $879 plus ~$75 tax so ~$955 total (assuming SVS doesn't try to charge me tax... that would bring the pricing about $65 closer!). That makes the Hsu $185 more than the pb12-nsd, true. But if there is ever a problem, or I want to return it within 30 days, Anaheim (Hsu's location) is definitely driving distance... And I get a higher end sub the should dig deeper, go louder, and just move more air. And when I want to buy, I'll just drive down and load it into the back of the car, same day!

Tough call. I wish it were easy (and cheaper) to try the SVS and not cost a fortune to return ship it if needed.

Thanks for making my decision that much tougher. ;-P


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If you are willing to spend the money on the SVS sub then the Emotiva sub should not even be in the same conversation as the SVS sub.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

chashint said:


> If you are willing to spend the money on the SVS sub then the Emotiva sub should not even be in the same conversation as the SVS sub.


I'll bet you're not married.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Well, between the various options (and the Hsu VTF-15H front runner), it's come down to this:

1) Money
2) WAF (that Hsu is BIG and TALL)
3) And frankly, I'm a little concerned that the VTF-15H might deliver TOO MUCH bass, and bother the neighbors (and my wife).

So I've decided to take Eugovector's advice and give the SVS PB12-NSD a shot. If I decide it's inadequate, I'm out about $70 to ship it back. If like it, win! The SVS is not small, to be sure, but it's considerably smaller than the VTF-15H.

If the SVS doesn't work out, I'll ship it back, and hightail it down to Anaheim to pick up that Hsu VTF-15H. But I'm hoping the SVS does the trick for me.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

KalaniP said:


> I'll bet you're not married.


Sorry but you lose that bet, I am very married and I am very considerate of my wife's wishes.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

KalaniP said:


> I posted in your thread a few days ago, I think. I do look forward to part 2... Hope you have some time this weekend!
> 
> The SVS pb12-nsd had been tops on my list, but this house just seems to eat bass alive... And based on my cf measurements, people seem to keep pushing me towards the higher end units. I'll take another look at the lower SVS (pb12-nsd instead if the spendier pb12-plus I had been looking at) before committing to anything. The cost is close, though noticeable. SVS pb12-nsd is $769 shipped, and the Hsu VTF-15H is $879 plus ~$75 tax so ~$955 total (assuming SVS doesn't try to charge me tax... that would bring the pricing about $65 closer!). That makes the Hsu $185 more than the pb12-nsd, true. But if there is ever a problem, or I want to return it within 30 days, Anaheim (Hsu's location) is definitely driving distance... And I get a higher end sub the should dig deeper, go louder, and just move more air. And when I want to buy, I'll just drive down and load it into the back of the car, same day!
> 
> ...


Sorry, I didn't recall your username or cross ref the two posts. Mind either getting full or soft.

I think you'll be very happy with the SVS. As you know, I was looking at a wide range of subs, and for me, the SVS represented the price/performance ratio I was looking for. I've managed the size by going with a corner placement. It now not only eats up less valuable real estate towards the middle of the room where we walk/look, but it's boosted output while providing more even response (one of the idiosyncrasies of an asymmetrical room). REW graphs have been made and will be posted in the official thread shortly.

With the new placement, I'm even happier with the SVS than in my initial impressions. I think I would still like a second one though for a bit more output and even flatter response...but new surrounds and projection is the new priority.

Overall, the SVS has staked quite a claim in the under-$1000 market.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

I must not be super memorable.  (jk!)

I agree. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how this baby does! Already on the FedEx truck making it's slow way across the country, should be delivered 10/24.

And someday, maybe I'll even be able to add a second one. Now there's a delicious thought!


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I do not know if the SVS will be 'enough' sub or not, its low end frequency extension is better than the VTF-15 and much better than the Emotivia so I think you will like it better.
Low end extension is not everything though so if it does not have enough guts, the VTF-15 is a good reasonably priced fall back plan.
Good luck and I hope you do not need to send the SVS back since return shipping charges are wasted money.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey Kalani - just wanted to check to see if you have installed the new sub and how it sounds.....


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

ALMFamily said:


> Hey Kalani - just wanted to check to see if you have installed the new sub and how it sounds.....


I went with the SVS PB13-NSD and couldn't be happier. Bass I can really feel, but still tight and clean, and as much output as my room can handle. 

(which doesn't mean I won't be adding a second one as soon as funds permit ... And I convince my wife!)


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