# €4500 budget for AVR, 9 speakers and sub



## semafoor (Sep 7, 2013)

We are currently renovating our home, and I’m using the opportunity to install a new home theatre system. After doing some research and reading these forums, I’ve put together a system that I think covers all our needs. Now I’d really like the opinion of some of the experts that roam these forums on both my choice of AVR/speakers and speaker placement (which still sort of has me puzzled).

The systems has to deliver sound to three rooms that span two floors; the three rooms are connected through holes in the wall & ceiling / floor. We want a surround system downstairs (zone 1) that we will mainly use for watching movies but also gaming. Upstairs, we want a stereo system to listen to radio and some music, in the background more often than not (zone 2 and 3). We want zones 2/3 to be able to play a different input from zone 1 simultaneously; we only have digital inputs (SP/DIF and HDMI). It is not necessary, but nonetheless nice, for there to be independent control of zones two and three. Floor standing speakers are not an option – especially not upstairs. All speakers have to be attached to the wall; upstairs near the ceiling, downstairs at ear-level when seating.

I have attached annotated floor-plans of the upstairs rooms / downstairs room to this image. This should give some insight in the size and geometry of the rooms (I think these would be referred to as medium or even large-sized rooms?). I’ve used all of my Paint skills to annotate where I’m planning to put the speakers using blue circles (the small numbers that you see indicate lengths in centimetres).

The system I am thinking of is the following.

AVR: Marantz SR7008 (€900)
Upstairs: 4x Bowers & Wilkins 685 S2 (€325 / piece)
Downstairs: 5x Bower & Wilkins M1 (€225 / piece), 1x SVS PB-2000 (€800)
I’d run the Marantz in 5.1+zone2/3 mode. I picked the Marantz because I believe it is capable of playing digital inputs in zone 2/3 while simultaneously playing a different input in zone 1, and because it has nine powered speaker outputs.

Some more remarks...

I live in Europe (Belgium); often prices here differ significantly from those in the USA. A good rule-of-thumb is that prices in $ (without taxes) are the same in € (with taxes) – forget about the 1.3-1.4 multiplier. European brands are sometimes cheaper here; not all American brands are available.
We prefer a better movie experience over better music listening experience - when having to choose, of course. We like some subwoofer action when watching movies.
Due to budget limitations, I figured that I’d better limit the number of speakers upstairs to four instead of the eight I was going for initially. I also believe that upstairs would be better off with some sort of sub, but I haven't come around great wall-mountable, affordable subs and I'm not sure if its the best use of my budget.
I started out wanting to spend €3000 euros. In the process (☺) I realized that this would probably not cover my expectations, so I stretched the budget to €4500 euros. Stretching it any more now is near impossible.
Since we are renovating, drawing new cables is less of an obstacle than it usually is; even opinions as to whether (and where) we should put in cable to future-proof ourselves would be awesome!

Thanks!


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

semafoor said:


> We are currently renovating our home, and I&#146;m using the opportunity to install a new home theatre system. After doing some research and reading these forums, I&#146;ve put together a system that I think covers all our needs. Now I&#146;d really like the opinion of some of the experts that roam these forums on both my choice of AVR/speakers and speaker placement (which still sort of has me puzzled).


 *
I will comment on layout and type of speakers, which you should decide on first, but not on choice of brand/model. *



> The systems has to deliver sound to three rooms that span two floors; the three rooms are connected through holes in the wall & ceiling / floor.
> A) Downstairs we want a surround system (zone 1) that we will mainly use for watching movies but also gaming.


 *
Downstairs plan for 5.1 system looks good, except why is the FR speaker so far forward of the C and LF? Place more in a equidistant line from the sweet seat, if able. *



> B) Upstairs, we want a stereo system to listen to radio and some music, in the background more often than not (zone 2 and 3).


 *
Upstairs, I would prefer two ceiling mounted speakers in each room, longitudinally centered approximately over the left and right ends of the indicated tables in kitchen and dining rooms respectively. This will provide better spacial stereo separation to more of your seats in each area.
Furthermore, I would buy dual voice coil speakers. These are able (but not required to) reproduce both the L and R stereo signals simultaneously. Initially, you would not have to use this ability, since it would require additional amplification beyond the AVR, but is the better solution for providing background music to a large area with multiple seats of different orientations. *



> C) We want zones 2/3 to be able to play a different input from zone 1 simultaneously; we only have digital inputs (SP/DIF and HDMI). It is not necessary, but nonetheless nice, for there to be independent control of zones two and three.


 *
This is completely a function of the AVR's capabilities.
Looking at the SR7008's manual, the 7008 can definitely support the additional audio zones using the speaker outputs for WIDE and SURROUND BACK speakers. 
I could NOT confirm the 7008 can use digital inputs for Zone 2/3--verify with Marantz unless you are sure.
Keep in mind, unless you install some type of IR repeater or a RF remote, you will have to control volume/source selection from downstairs. I prefer to use a separate AVR on each floor to provide more convenience. *



> I have attached annotated floor-plans of the upstairs rooms / downstairs room to this image.


 *
Very helpful, thanks! *



> The system I am thinking of is the following.
> 
> [*]AVR: Marantz SR7008 (&#128;900)
> [*]Upstairs: 4x Bowers & Wilkins 685 S2 (&#128;325 / piece)
> ...


* The SR7008 will not directly support a sub upstairs, the additional sub output is for using two subs in the main HT room. Another reason to consider a separate upstairs AVR. 

Eight speakers upstairs will not help if only using one AVR and is not necessary for background music in the rooms shown. 

Lastly, upstairs would benefit greatly from having Bluetooth capability to access Pandora, internet radio (TuneIn), or your own music from phones and tablets to provide a wide array of background music options. My final push for a separate upstairs AVR-- Bluetooth needs line of sight 
*



> [*]Since we are renovating, drawing new cables is less of an obstacle than it usually is; even opinions as to whether (and where) we should put in cable to future-proof ourselves would be awesome!


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## semafoor (Sep 7, 2013)

> I will comment on layout and type of speakers, which you should decide on first, but not on choice of brand/model.


Thanks, really appreciated!



> Downstairs plan for 5.1 system looks good, except why is the FR speaker so far forward of the C and LF? Place more in a equidistant line from the sweet seat, if able.


There is a pillar located there (you can still sort of see it). I could put it on an equidistant line, but then I'd have to attach the speakers to the ceiling. Now that I think of it, this would probably be more aesthetically pleasing too.... Won't it be to obvious that sound is coming from above?




> Upstairs, I would prefer two ceiling mounted speakers in each room, longitudinally centered approximately over the left and right ends of the indicated tables in kitchen and dining rooms respectively. This will provide better spacial stereo separation to more of your seats in each area.


That is a possibility; I'll probably mount them like that. Thanks for the feedback.




> Furthermore, I would buy dual voice coil speakers. These are able (but not required to) reproduce both the L and R stereo signals simultaneously. Initially, you would not have to use this ability, since it would require additional amplification beyond the AVR, but is the better solution for providing background music to a large area with multiple seats of different orientations.


Hmm, I did not really encounter this kind of speakers before. I like the idea, but I can only seem to find in-wall DVC speakers. I assume that the sound produced by such speakers would be no match to the sound produced by the bookshelves I was looking at? Maybe you can give some pointers to specific DVC speaker models (200-500€$ / speaker range)?



> I could NOT confirm the 7008 can use digital inputs for Zone 2/3--verify with Marantz unless you are sure.


Thanks for taking the time to confirm my 'research'. I remember reading this on some websites given an overview of AVR features (I can't post links yet). AVR documentation is always scarce though... maybe this is only when playing back analog inputs in Zone 1. I also read that the digital HDMI input to Zone 2 needs to be a stereo signal.



> Keep in mind, unless you install some type of IR repeater or a RF remote, you will have to control volume/source selection from downstairs. I prefer to use a separate AVR on each floor to provide more convenience.
> 
> The SR7008 will not directly support a sub upstairs, the additional sub output is for using two subs in the main HT room. Another reason to consider a separate upstairs AVR.
> 
> ...


I was thinking of mainly using AirPlay / mobile apps to control Zone 2 from the second floor, but maybe that is not as good an idea as I thought it was - AirPlay support in Zone 2 seems tedious at best, and the Marantz app has only 2 stars in the Play and App store. You have convinced me; I'm now looking into fitting in a second receiver into my budget .

Obviously I would need to replace the SR7008 by a cheaper model (e.g. SR6008 or a comparable receiver by another brand). This would leave a couple of hundred euros for the second receiver.

edit: I thought that a (digital) stereo amplifier would be cheaper than a multichannel AVR, but it looks like I might be mistaken. Would you suggest a second AVR or a digital stereo amplifier for Zone 2? Digital stereo amplifiers don't seem to have HDMI inputs - such an input would be a handy way to connect the two AVRs if I want the same sound everywhere.


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

semafoor said:


> Thanks, really appreciated!
> There is a pillar located there (you can still sort of see it). I could put it on an equidistant line, but then I'd have to attach the speakers to the ceiling. Now that I think of it, this would probably be more aesthetically pleasing too.... Won't it be to obvious that sound is coming from above?


*
Got it, I suspected you had a good reason and that would be it!
*



> I assume that the sound produced by such speakers would be no match to the sound produced by the bookshelves I was looking at? Maybe you can give some pointers to specific DVC speaker models (200-500€$ / speaker range)?


*
You are correct, no cost competetive in-ceiling speaker will sound as good as a similarily priced bookshelf, but room placement options and area coverage make it more applicable to the stated goal of providing background music in a dining/kitchen.
Here is one place to begin your research. 
- Several reputable manufacturers make DVC in-ceilings.
For a similar application in my home I used very inexpensive Monoprice in-ceiling (not DVC in my case) to excellent effect for that application; I also included an inexpensive Polk 111 sub to fill in the low frequencies.

*


> You have convinced me; I'm now looking into fitting in a second receiver into my budget .


*
I think you will find this a lot more user friendly and much less frustrating in the long run.
*




> Would you suggest a second AVR or a digital stereo amplifier for Zone 2?


*
Definitely an AVR (does not need to be high cost) for the following reasons: 
a) Number of amplifiers, you will need 4-stereo sets (i.e. 8 amplifiers) to drive the four dual voice coil speakers since each speaker is connected to two amplifiers (a L and a R)
b) Increased chance of finding sub support, solid EQ, and better array of digitial inputs
c) Much better value price/feature wise
d) Will have at least one extra set of available L/R amps to potentially support at least one additional speaker in the kitchen area if you so choose. 
- Note 1: If the upstairs AVR does not have Zone 2 capability, use an "all-channel stereo" mode to run all upstairs speakers simultaneously and a "stereo" mode to just power the dining room (assuming the dining room is the priority).
- Note 2: An AVR with Zone 2 would be prefered, budget allowing of course.
*

Cheers,
XEagleDriver


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## semafoor (Sep 7, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. An AVR with Zone 2 support should be feasible - thanks for the suggestion.

I'll look into the in-ceilings. I'm a little hesitant because I do not really mind the speakers near the ceiling, whereas putting even a small sub on the floor could be a problem. I also don't see in-ceilings recommended very often. In-ceilings remind me of supermarkets, which often have them . Of course, you're right that the intended purpose is mostly to deliver background music - a purpose they fit well.

Additional question: the local reseller of SVS has their remaining stock of SVS SB12-NSD subs on sale - €499 vs €800 for the PB-2000 (which is out of stock ) and €700 a couple of months ago. Would my room benefit from two subs? There are no PB12's on sale. Since I'm mainly watching movies I figured I'd better go for the ported sub; just checking.


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

I have an older ported 10" SVS NSD in my HT and it rocks! 
However, I think the dual SBs (total cost ~1,000 euros) performance would be very similar to a single PB (700 euros), but the dual SBs could provide more even coverage (assuming good placement). 
The SVS phone/email reps are very helpful and should steer you in the right direction.

XEagleDriver


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