# Ferrite Cores, Banana Plugs, and tinning (soldering) speaker cables.



## Owen Bartley

I've been thinking about making some DIY speaker cables for my speakers lately, and stumbled across a link to these Ferrite Cores at Monoprice. Since looking around a little more, I've also seen them called Ferrite Beads and various other things. They usually seem to appear on things like USB and HDMI cables, and are supposed to provide some RF shielding I think.

Would there be any advantage to having these on speaker cables, or is there no way they would be picking up the type of interference these are meant to reduce? Even with potential runs near power wires or sources?


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## eugovector

Speaker cables, regardless of what pricing cable vendors will tell you, are very unlikely to pick up AUDIBLE interference. Sure they pick up interference, but the signal being sent over the cables, post amplifier, is so much louder than any interference that you won't ever be able to hear it. My opinion, of course...


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## Owen Bartley

Thanks Marshall. So would they be more valuable to add to signal wires before amplification? Like RCA interconnects? If there's definitely no negative effect, I might still clip one on, depending on what the rest of the cable components end up looking like. 

I've just discovered these ViaBlue TS2 banana plugs, which I like quite a bit, and they are carried by one of our sponsors (RAM). I like the split tube plugs for the increased contact they make, but they are tough to find, especially for a reasonable price.


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## eugovector

There shouldn't be a negative effect (unless you count spending money with no performance increase), but there likely won't be a positive audible one either.

Same with banana plugs. I like plugs (using monoprice) for neatness, but the fact is, the best connection is bare wire, likely followed by spades, then banana plugs. Once again, one will likely sound as good as the next, but there are less opportunities for failure with bare wire.


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## Owen Bartley

I could do spades, I've seen some very nice cables terminated that way. I guess there's really no need for any though, since I'm not likely to move anything around very often, so I can just stick to my bare wire for now, until I really get restless for another project.

Thanks again Marshall.


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## eugovector

You're welcome.


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## Goldenbear

Owen Bartley said:


> I could do spades, I've seen some very nice cables terminated that way. I guess there's really no need for any though, since I'm not likely to move anything around very often, so I can just stick to my bare wire for now...


One thing to keep in mind with bare wire is that you need to be careful that you don't have stray wire shorting between terminals.

And don't tin the ends either, since solder cold flows.

That's why I just use spades for most connectors, with bananas when the plugs are too close together for spades (like in the back of a receiver or some faceplates).


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## eugovector

Goldenbear: can you expand on what "cold flow" means and why you wouldn't want to tin the ends of a bare wire connection?

Thanks,
Marshall


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## Goldenbear

What happens is the solder will creep under constant pressure, and eventually the connection will become loose.

The bottom line is that if you tin the ends, you'll have to check and re-tighten the speaker terminals over time.

On a sort of related note, if you're concerned with getting the maximum contact area, stay away from locking banana plugs. The ones I've seen generally have three fingers that push apart to give you a tight connection. But what that means is you only have contact at three points. Not even three pad, or lines... three *points*. Still adequate, obviously, or the plugs wouldn't work at all, but not great. Most non-locking banana plugs I've seen have more "fingers", so you generally have five or more contact points (sometimes lines).

Spades, on the other hand, have a much larger surface contact area.

Again, only important if you're concerned about getting the maximum possible contact area at your connection points.


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## andrep

have tried with ferrite cores on the power cable coming from the PSU into a cheap studio DA converter.

The high resolution ADAM S3A monitors revealed some change in the mids sort of a bit of a more compressed quality.


Read somewhere that the distance from the plug is crucial to the end-result.


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## eugovector

I'm not sure how it's possible that ferrite cores applied to the power cable of a DA converter could produce any perceptible change in audio quality. Can someone please explain the science to me?


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## robbo266317

It couldn't unless it was a really "dirty" mains signal and the internal power supply filtering was almost non existent. 
Ferrite will only block RF signals, and if they were affecting the DA converter in any way, then you would be hearing anomalies across the whole audio spectrum.


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## Owen Bartley

Goldenbear said:


> On a sort of related note, if you're concerned with getting the maximum contact area, stay away from locking banana plugs.


I am generally not a fan of locking plugs, although I do have a few locking RCAs in my system right now, I wouldn't be too upset to replace them.

I did decide that I wanted bananas for the connections from my receiver to the wall plate for distribution, which is a tight space, and only needs about 3 feet of cable. I ended up ordering some Nakamichi BFA style (I have also seen them called Z plug) plugs from eBay which are the same concept as the more expensive, although nicer looking, ViaBlue plugs I posted previously. These were a good deal and I like the fact that they increase the contact area over standard bananas. Also, it makes moving things around infinitely easier than unscrewing 14 little terminals.

I just did a quick connection for now, but I'll post pics when I eventualy get around to cleaning them up and making nicer cables out of them.


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## glaufman

Goldenbear said:


> What happens is the solder will creep under constant pressure, and eventually the connection will become loose.
> 
> The bottom line is that if you tin the ends, you'll have to check and re-tighten the speaker terminals over time.
> 
> .


I might not recommend tinning the entire stripped portion of the cable, but if you just tin the tips to keep the strands in place (after twisting of course), you can then use the connector to compress the untinned portion and not have to worry about squeezing the solder. I actually think you'll get more surface area on the contact this way too (without making connection to the solder). 

I prefer to connect to the copper directly rather than introduce another contact point by using a connector.


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## Owen Bartley

I'm trying to dress up my cables a little, so this is the first test. Carbon techflex and heatshrink, nothing too fancy, but I like it. This is one of the 6 (SR, SL, SB, Buttkicker, Zone 2 L & R) that connect the receiver to the wall plate for distribution. I'll do something similar for the connections on the other end from the wall to the speakers, but this was the priority for now.


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## glaufman

Looks like a nice neat job! Any strain relief near the connectors?


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## Goldenbear

glaufman said:


> I might not recommend tinning the entire stripped portion of the cable, but if you just tin the tips to keep the strands in place (after twisting of course), you can then use the connector to compress the untinned portion and not have to worry about squeezing the solder. I actually think you'll get more surface area on the contact this way too (without making connection to the solder).
> 
> I prefer to connect to the copper directly rather than introduce another contact point by using a connector.


That's true, tinning just the tips would work. However, I've found most people don't know proper soldering technique to begin with (note how even some "instructional" video out there shows how to "solder" by melting the solder directly with the soldering iron). Also, the wire strands wick the solder pretty quickly, so most people may not even realize they've got solder in part of the wire past the tip.

Just figured it's safer to warn people to not try it to begin with. That, and I was lazy and didn't want to get into all this detail


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## glaufman

Goldenbear said:


> That's true, tinning just the tips would work. However, I've found most people don't know proper soldering technique to begin with (note how even some "instructional" video out there shows how to "solder" by melting the solder directly with the soldering iron). Also, the wire strands wick the solder pretty quickly, so most people may not even realize they've got solder in part of the wire past the tip.
> 
> Just figured it's safer to warn people to not try it to begin with. That, and I was lazy and didn't want to get into all this detail


Well, this is a first for me: I agree 100% with absolutely everything you just said!:rofl:
Didn't think of the wicking issue myself, good call.
Although I have to say, as a fairly experienced solderer (is that a word?) working mainly in an electornics lab, I often melt the solder directly with the iron even thogh I know I shouldn't. Experience tells you how to make it work properly, and with that knowledge, sometimes it does work better/faster. Especially when you're forced to use an iron that's underpowered for the job at hand, the increased contact area you get from the molten solder can aid the heat transfer from the iron to the work just enough to get the job done...
But like I said, it's the years of experience that tells you when and if so how you can get away with shortcuts. Not recommended for beginners.:nono::nerd:


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## Owen Bartley

glaufman said:


> Looks like a nice neat job! Any strain relief near the connectors?


No, no strain relief, but I think they should be alright. The heat shrink stiffens up the single cables, so they can't bend sharply, and as long as I unplog them by gripping the actual connector, I think they'll be OK.


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## Chester

I personally solder/tin all of my speaker connections; I always make sure to use a wire brush to get any flux off after tinning the connection (ex. the ends I put in binding posts on my amp). The 'wicking' effect is helpful in my opinion because it basically turns the soldered end into a solid core wire for ~.5" which I have found helps reduce strain where the insulation starts (since the insulated wire is usually more rigid than the bare wire, the bare wire typically would break before the part within the insulation: wicking solder inside the insulation for ~.5" helps alleviate the stress and keeps wires from breaking)

tinning the tips also keeps the exposed copper from tarnishing over time


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## glaufman

Chester said:


> I personally solder/tin all of my speaker connections; I always make sure to use a wire brush to get any flux off after tinning the connection (ex. the ends I put in binding posts on my amp). The 'wicking' effect is helpful in my opinion because it basically turns the soldered end into a solid core wire for ~.5" which I have found helps reduce strain where the insulation starts (since the insulated wire is usually more rigid than the bare wire, the bare wire typically would break before the part within the insulation: wicking solder inside the insulation for ~.5" helps alleviate the stress and keeps wires from breaking)
> 
> tinning the tips also keeps the exposed copper from tarnishing over time


Yes, but it increases the strain where the solder ends, and see the post above regarding cold flow.
Also, the area of the copper making contact (the area you care about) isn't getting tarnished, as the contact keeps the air out.

Different strokes for different folks.


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## Chester

The insulation past where the solder ends wicking helps to make the transition stronger; the insulation (and its keeping the wire from making as sharp as a bend) keeps the end in better condition over time... or at least that is what I have found.

Also, I have found copper that had tarnished under contact, perhaps it was not a very tight connection but things did tarnish over time (the instance I am thinking of was outdoors however that should just be an accelerated example of what would happen indoors too...)

As for cold flow; I try to keep strands of the wires to have the same twist/configuration they would have inside the insulation so there is little if any gap between the strands; so the solder is more 'gluing things together' not sitting between a gap, so the strands should be transferring the majority of pressure to other strands, the solder just keeps them from fraying... Granted this is just my intuitive thinking however I have never experienced any cold flow issues


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## glaufman

Glad to hear it, but ... 
There's certainly a lot more going on outside than in most conditions.
When you tighten a connector on bare copper, you compress that copper. To a large extent, when you stop tightening, the copper stops compressing. When you tin the whole connection point, you compress the solder, not the copper (you may not see the gaps the solder is filling, but they're there). the point by the poster above was that if coldflow takes place you will be worse off than if you just left the ends untinned.
That being said, I have to admit I've never experienced the cold flow problem myself, but neither have I tinned my ends. I don't move/connect/disconnect very often (only when I move or upgrade) so my untinned strands stay where I put them. 
As for your insulation, perhaps I misunderstood... it's my understanding that you have tinned ends, then untinned copper, then the insulation starts... is this not the case?


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## Chester

Ah, no, I make sure to wick the solder 'underneath' the insulation; so all of the copper is covered with solder and also, if I were to bend the cable there is ~.5" of insulated cable that is 'solid' (more solid than the 'normal' insulated cable).

EDIT/clarification: the 'solid' part of the insulated cable is from the gaps you mentioned in your prior post being filled in turning the end of my wire into a solid piece as if it were not stranded at all.


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## glaufman

I see... I guess I still have things to learn about soldering... 
Are you sure it's solder wicking, and not the insulation becoming stiff from the heat?


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## Chester

Yes, I am sure it is wicking; I did a little 'experiment' to show you what I am talking about. I was wrong however, it appears the solder wicks around 0.25" (using 8 awg wire) under the insulation, not 0.5, but I believe that how far it wicks is a function of how hot the iron is and how well you can heat the wire under the insulation above the solders melting point. Using 22 awg stranded speaker wire (from Radio Shack) the solder wicked around 0.087" up the wire. Anyways, here are the pictures 
















































































The last two pictures are showing the 22 awg wire trial; there is tension on the end (which is why it is bent like it is) notice how there is a portion of the insulation that does not bend... that is the area with solder stiffening it.

NOTE: the 8 awg wire I used has 19 strands, there are other 8 awg wires I use that have 7 strands (I believe) which wick a little further


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## eugovector

Thread title changed to reflect direction of conversation.


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## Chester

thanks for the rename  should I just start a different post on the topic of solder wicking/pros-cons of tinning wires?


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## Owen Bartley

BB camera shot of my weekend project. Front channel speaker cable dressed up with a hockey skate lace and the same BFA bananas as above.


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## Chester

those are quite classy  I have never used hockey skate lase; do you have any tips for doing something like that? would it work on headphone cords? (I use teflon for my headphones: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ip-ptfe-pipe-thread-tape-headphone-cords.html) however the hockey lase may be something that would be quickly replaceable... can it be more 'form fitted' to a thinner cable or would it be a pretty constant diameter?


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## Owen Bartley

Hmmm, very interesting idea on your headphone wraps, I never would have thought of something like that! I may have to get a roll of tape and experiment a bit.

I think hockey laces would be too large for headphone cords (they don't have a lot of expansion/contraction range), but you could find other laces that would work for sure. I have seen tons of cool cables done with different kinds of laces, you just have to make sure they're the hollow kind. It's tough to tell when they're in the package, but there are a lot of different styles that work, some wide and flat, some more round and thin, as long as the weave is hollow and not one flat piece, all you have to do is cut the end off and feed your cable through.

Here are a couple of others I pulled off Google quickly...



















I think these last ones were hiking boot laces... again, you just have to find some hollow ones and cut the tips off, but you will also likely have to heatshrink the ends to keep things from fraying.


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## Chester

wow I really like the second picture


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## eugovector

Chester said:


> thanks for the rename  should I just start a different post on the topic of solder wicking/pros-cons of tinning wires?


Well, in the future, but we've already come so far...

If you wanted to post a summary of the pros/cons/questions in a new thread, that would be a great conversation starter.


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## perritterd

Owen Bartley said:


> I am generally not a fan of locking plugs, although I do have a few locking RCAs in my system right now, I wouldn't be too upset to replace them.
> 
> I did decide that I wanted bananas for the connections from my receiver to the wall plate for distribution, which is a tight space, and only needs about 3 feet of cable. I ended up ordering some Nakamichi BFA style (I have also seen them called Z plug) plugs from eBay which are the same concept as the more expensive, although nicer looking, ViaBlue plugs I posted previously. These were a good deal and I like the fact that they increase the contact area over standard bananas. Also, it makes moving things around infinitely easier than unscrewing 14 little terminals.
> 
> I just did a quick connection for now, but I'll post pics when I eventualy get around to cleaning them up and making nicer cables out of them.


Owen, I am reading thru threads and saw this one that you posted about the Nakamichi banana plugs. I also see that this is an old thread and do not know if you are still online, but, if you, or *any one else*, what do you think about these banana plugs and how they are used in your system? Do they work the way you thought? I just purchased these plugs and am trying to decide whether or not to use them in place of bare wire on my receiver. Appreciate any thoughts on this.

Thanks,
Bob.


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## Owen Bartley

Hi Bob, I am quite happy with the Nak plugs. They're very secure, have a good contact area, and look nice. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use them if you already have them. I'm 100% sure they haven't improved the sound (or changed it at all), but I wanted something that would look nice and clean, and make connecting/disconnecting easier while maintaining good contact. I find that I usually overtighten binding posts on bare wire, so that when I unscrew them to move them I get frayed strands coming off and I don't like that.

In general I've been very happy with these plugs, and would recommend them. I'd say if you are going to use them, take the extra few minutes and treat yourself to some heat shrink, at least some red/black to help keep your wires snug and easy to identify.


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## perritterd

Owen Bartley said:


> Hi Bob, I am quite happy with the Nak plugs. They're very secure, have a good contact area, and look nice. I certainly wouldn't hesitate to use them if you already have them. I'm 100% sure they haven't improved the sound (or changed it at all), but I wanted something that would look nice and clean, and make connecting/disconnecting easier while maintaining good contact. I find that I usually overtighten binding posts on bare wire, so that when I unscrew them to move them I get frayed strands coming off and I don't like that.
> 
> In general I've been very happy with these plugs, and would recommend them. I'd say if you are going to use them, take the extra few minutes and treat yourself to some heat shrink, at least some red/black to help keep your wires snug and easy to identify.


Thanks Owen...I'll certainly look into some heat shrink.
Bob


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