# USB, FLAC and Cd Quality



## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

Hi all,
1. I am ripping CDs to FLAC and saving on 1TB external HD. 
2. I bought Onkyo TXNR609 AV Receiver because it has USB input and plays FLAC.
3. On test, the FLAC did not live up to the SQ of the original CD played on Cambridge Audio 650BD through the same receiver.
4. What could be the cause of the difference in SQ?
5. What set up change will be required so the FLAC will sound the same as the CD? (FLAC lossless should not lose any quality).
Any suggestions ?
Regards


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Have you engaged the Music Optimizer? I know my TX-NR3008 offers this Feature which is supposed to help with this very thing and I assume that it is also offered on the 609. However, I am not positive.

And while in theory FLAC Files should sound identical to CD's, I too have always preferred the SQ of a CD or SACD better than any Music File.
Cheers,
JJ


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## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Have you engaged the Music Optimizer? I know my TX-NR3008 offers this Feature which is supposed to help with this very thing and I assume that it is also offered on the 609. However, I am not positive.
> 
> 
> ...


>>The Music Optimiser is turned "off". If it is turned "on" should that improve the quality? It is not clear to me. the document mentions "Onkyo have also optimised the TX-NR609 with their proprietary Advanced Music Optimizer. This ensures that you always hear the best musical audio sounds from the Onkyo TX-NR609 with your chosen method of recording"<<

<< I have read and enquired a lot on this. I gather from many feedbacks that if the FLAC rip is bit perfect (dBpowerAmp used for ripping), then the sound should be exactly the same, if all other playback chain is identical. Hence I was trying to establish whether; (1)USB tramsmission is degrading (2) the receiver DA conversion is not up to scratch or (3) some other playback chain is the issue.<<


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

wtaylorbasil said:


> >>The Music Optimiser is turned "off". If it is turned "on" should that improve the quality? It is not clear to me. the document mentions "Onkyo have also optimised the TX-NR609 with their proprietary Advanced Music Optimizer. This ensures that you always hear the best musical audio sounds from the Onkyo TX-NR609 with your chosen method of recording"<<
> 
> << I have read and enquired a lot on this. I gather from many feedbacks that if the FLAC rip is bit perfect (dBpowerAmp used for ripping), then the sound should be exactly the same, if all other playback chain is identical. Hence I was trying to establish whether; (1)USB tramsmission is degrading (2) the receiver DA conversion is not up to scratch or (3) some other playback chain is the issue.<<


Hello,
Yes, try turning on the Music Optimizer as it is designed to make the best out of such Sources. As for the playback quality, it could be a myriad of things, but the Onkyo has a very high quality DAC's and ADA's.
Cheers,
JJ


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## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Yes, try turning on the Music Optimizer as it is designed to make the best out of such Sources. As for the playback quality, it could be a myriad of things, but the Onkyo has a very high quality DAC's and ADA's.
> Cheers,
> JJ


>> Does make sense to have it "on" for playing from iPod/Flash memory stick of Mp3 or other "lossy" formats etc. But I am playing "lossless" FLAC files directly from my EHD, so the Receiver does not need to fill-in any missing bits. This is what a review says "The Onkyo TX-NR609 also incorporates Onkyo’s exclusive Advanced Music Optimizer to compensate for lost bit info and develop the superior of compressed audio signals.
End outcome: your music sounds cleaner and additional faithful towards the original". As stated before, FLAC files are bit perfect, so there should be no need to compensate. As you say the quality will depends on a myriad of things.
Is therere anyone out there who knows the ins and outs of the TXNR609 DAC/ADA to be able say where the is problem lies? 
Could it be that my listening test is not scientific enough because we can feel different at different times. Is there a technically fool-proof wat of testing this?<<


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## Guest (Aug 20, 2011)

What sound card is in your computer? Or, how are you sending it to the Onkyo?

Double check your audio settings, make sure no effects are turned on, etc.


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## sparky77 (Feb 22, 2008)

I still think the compressed music enhancers are marketing hype, once the bits are gone, there gone, I think that all it does is re-equalises it and adds a stereo widening effect to make it sound different than the original file so when you compare it to the output from your ipod or generic mp3 player it sounds a little better. That way, when you disable it, it would most likely sound very similar to any other player. Yet, if you listen to several different mp3 playing devices that use hardware decoding, they will quite often sound different, hence the problem with your flac files sounding different played by your avr compared to if you played them from your pc connected to the avr, or from the original cd. If you can connect your pc's output to your avr, even if its by analog cables, try that and compare it to the sound of the original cd and you'll know pretty quickly if its substandard hardware decoding by the avr.


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## HT_n_ME (Apr 27, 2008)

The "bits" aren't gone, they are compressed using mathematical algorithms sort of like being encoded and when uncompressed they are decoded. This is done with data transmission all the time, over networks, with TV signals, satellite, etc.


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## dsime42 (Mar 4, 2011)

HT_n_ME said:


> The "bits" aren't gone, they are compressed


No the bits are GONE that is what is meant by "lossy"



HT_n_ME said:


> they are compressed using mathematical algorithms sort of like being encoded and when uncompressed they are decoded. This is done with data transmission all the time, over networks, with TV signals, satellite, etc.


Data transmissions are done with lossless compression which is why the OP is using flac and wanting to know why it sounds different


wtaylorbasil
Have you tried putting a wav file onto the EHD and compared it to the same track on flac? It sounds like you are comparing if to a CD and it might be informative to get the "music path" to be more similar. ie reduce the difference to JUST the flac encode/decode cycle.
You may be listening to the difference in the ADC between your PC and your BlueRay not to the flac process.:huh:
Hmmm ... no ADC in a digital rip is there.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

I'd look at your USB cable. Use a good quality cable and as short a run as possible.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

I seem to remember Onkyo's Music Optimizer being touted for use on low quality files; thats cool, lots of very low quality files out there. However, having to use it to improve _lossless_ playback to get the equivalent of cd quality means an utter lack of faithful reproduction in the first place. Ill be curious what solves the issue, let us know. :blink:


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## dsime42 (Mar 4, 2011)

Any results?


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## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

dsime42 said:


> Any results?


Sorry for the silence. I owe you guys my experience.

At the same time I was also contemplating video streaming. Glad to say only last week I found the best way to stream my HD videos usung Mezzmo (after many months of frustration). I am delighted.

While I was experimenting video streaming, it occured to me how convenient it would be for me to stream audio as well without any SQ loss. I was not very trusting on the "software" to be faithful. But after some reading and understanding, I was converted that the FLAC file would be truthfully re-produced as long as the Onkyo DAC was capable as the spec said. And it did the job-I had to make sure the speaker configuration was set to "stereo". Then I realised that via USB I could only play upto 96Khz sampling but on DLNA I could play 192Khz 24bit audio, which was becoming more available.


So I transferred all my music FLAC files to my Lenovo Laptop Core i7 2.7Ghz 8GB RAM and 1TB HD.
I am playing all my ripped CD tracks via DLNA and it is great! Cannot tell the difference between CD and the FLAC ripped tracks.

I have become a bit more confident and right now I am listening to my very first Vinyl "Blessed Are" by Joan Baez, which I have digitised to FLAC and sounds good. I have not yet compared the Vinyl/FLAC sound SQ thoroughly.

So guys I am very happy with Onkyo TX-NR609 playing my music (approx 6,000 tracks) and happy with Panasonic DMP-BDT110 playing HD videos.

Regards
William


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

wtaylorbasil said:


> While I was experimenting video streaming, it occured to me how convenient it would be for me to stream audio as well without any SQ loss. I was not very trusting on the "software" to be faithful. But after some reading and understanding, I was converted that the FLAC file would be truthfully re-produced as long as the Onkyo DAC was capable as the spec said. And it did the job-I had to make sure the speaker configuration was set to "stereo". Then I realised that via USB I could only play upto 96Khz sampling but on DLNA I could play 192Khz 24bit audio, which was becoming more available.


Except that the PCM Wave files on the CDs you ripped were 44Khz 16-bit. Why would you change the sampling rate/depth on an existing file? There's nothing to gain.



> So I transferred all my music FLAC files to my Lenovo Laptop Core i7 2.7Ghz 8GB RAM and 1TB HD.
> I am playing all my ripped CD tracks via DLNA and it is great! Cannot tell the difference between CD and the FLAC ripped tracks.


The stored data is identical. Any differences would be somewhere else in the chain.



> So guys I am very happy with Onkyo TX-NR609 playing my music (approx 6,000 tracks) and happy with Panasonic DMP-BDT110 playing HD videos.


Yay !


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## wtaylorbasil (Nov 27, 2008)

wtaylorbasil said:


> Sorry for the silence. I owe you guys my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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