# Is this space big enough??



## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

please chime in. i have a small ish area in the basement under the kitchen morning room. well i think that's what it's called. i am thinking about walling off this basement area so i can have a dedicated isolated room for a home theater. the finished width will come in at 11' 4". the finished depth will come in at 15' 4". everything will have to fit inside that space except the equipment. i can core through a wall and run all the wires in from outside the theater area. i like that idea. i like the idea of keeping a dedicated space clean of everything except speakers / screen / projector.

here are a few pics of the space. please let me know what y'all think. thanks.


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

Wile not idea size wise it can work and on the plus size a smaller room will be easy to pressurize with bass. The down side is the room because of the size will tend to need a lot of bass trapping and even then may still have some issues.

What size screen were you planing on going with? A 60" LCD may work at those viewing distances. Also what speakers and amp were you planing on using?

Any plans to add traps to balance out the sound or were you planing on adding things as you need them.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Agreed. As long as you don't go too crazy trying to cram too many seats in there, that would be a very nice cozy space that can be easily addressed acoustically and very reasonable to get good bottom end.


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

i have been hunting around ebay and craigslist for another amp and speakers. i have the front left and right as my vintage 1980's bang and olufsen redline 140's. i want to add a third as the center. i am picky about condition so it's taking awhile to find a nice match to what i have. they are out there so getting another pair and re-foaming could be quick if need be.

i currently have 3 rotel rb-956ax's. i run them all bridged so i get 3 channels at 90 w per channel from each amp. the plan is to add the rb-976. that 976 amp bridged is 3 x 150 w per channel. i can use my existing 956 until i find the right deal on the 976. again they are available i am just picky about condition - looks - original box etc....

for surrounds i have two options. i have 4 polk rti 4's and 4 paradigm titan v2's. the titans advantage is the cabinet is slightly bigger so the bass reproduction is just a little bit lower compared to the polks. the polk has two advantages. the tweeter is 15 years newer and i like the brighter sound they make. the second advantage is they have this metal bracket on the back that will allow a flush wall mount with just a screw.

here is the back of the polk:
http://gallery.audioreview.com/showphoto.php?photo=1231&size=big&password=&sort=1&cat=500

i can also swap stuff around and see how an all bookshelf system would sound. i have not ruled that out but the bookshelf's don't hold a candle compared to the full size floor standing speaker.

the sub is still in the air. i have a passive 10" dvc psb that has done well for me over the years. 

i drive it with two channels from one of my 956's. in that small room it would probably fit nicely but keeping that 10" is not what's in my gut. keeping it of course incurs far less cost than diy'ing a couple of 15" subs and will also keep the WAF complaints down. so the sub is completely open. i am handy with tools and wood so the diy part is not an issue at all. plus how cool would i be if i had two 15 boxes each with it's own ep-2500 driving it. at least my kids would think i was cool!!

screen is open and seats are open. i am thinking two main seats ( for me and the wife ) and bean bags for the kids. maybe 1 chair and 4 bean bags!!

dave


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

i forgot to mention the receiver. i am also hunting and trying to ebay snipe a yamaha rx-v667. it has pre outs and the latest processing and firmware and blah blah. its not set in stone and i have been reading alot about presence / front height speakers. i am not locked into 7.1 and would consider 9.2 if i thought it was worth the $$$.

bigger picture is to use the receiver just for the surrounds and rotel for the fronts. the end design is to have one 3 channel amp for the LCR, one amp per sub (behringer seems pretty popular), and use the receiver to drive the surrounds. then hts, craigslist, or audiogon the stuff i don't need.

dave


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

If you like a brighter sound then the Polk's are the ticket for sure. Are you planing on using the subs to handle everything below 80hz if so then the amps for the other channels will not be bogged down from trying to deal with bass they can't deal with very well compared to a good sub.


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

In a room that size I would stick with 7.1 that way you have a easier time with speaker placement plus if I recall there is not a lot of content that has more then 7 channels of audio for 9.1 I think the are remixing content from other channels.

If you want you could barrow a amp if you need a extra on just to try it out and see if you feel it adds that much to the experience vs say 7.1 setup.

Win smaller rooms I like to keep stuff simple. My money would be spent on traps so that you can milk every little bit of sound out of the space.

As for a screen goto a store and measure a TV say a 60" and if you can cut some cardboard and place it on a wall and then sit where you would be distance wise in the room and see what you think of the size. It can give you a basic idea of what it maybe like in the room. You can also see if the store has a chair that you can slide in front of different size sets say at 10' away and see what fits your idea best. Make sure to take the wife sense what maybe fine for you may give her a headache from it being too close for her to handle.


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

i threw together a pretty weak sketchup pic. the dimensions for the room and speakers are all correct. it really makes the room look small but perfect for the mls. finished dimension is 5" wider at the front at 11' 3 1/2". the back width would be 10' 10 1/2". front to back is the same on both sides at 15' 5".

the polk footprint including the rear port is 7" x 11 1/2". the front b&o footprint is 9 1/2" by 1' 8". the screen is a 65" roughly dimensioned at 36" x 61". i think i would probably go to a 70".

the couch dimension is what we have right now in the living room. that could easily change to something smaller.

















dave


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## Basite (Nov 29, 2012)

just as a word of encouragement: I'm building a dedicated HT room in a 3.2 x 5 meter attic (under a roof), where only 3.5 of the 5m is useable. I'm putting in an 90" AT screen, and 5.1 with 4 rears. 

Anything is possible if you want to


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## phazewolf (Feb 5, 2012)

That's right. Sometimes we have to work with what we have even when it is not the perfect room. The room I am currently using is complete and I will day that with a smile because even though it is wrong in so many ways I have gotten it to the point to where is sounds fairly good and that makes me happy. 

In the end this is a hobby and as long as you smile about it that is what counts.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Since it looks like you have complete light control, I would personally opt for a projector. You can go with a larger screen which will really give an immersive experience.

And, I like the bean bag/ one row of seating approach - the kids will love it!


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> Since it looks like you have complete light control, I would personally opt for a projector. You can go with a larger screen which will really give an immersive experience.
> 
> And, I like the bean bag/ one row of seating approach - the kids will love it!


i thought about it but ruled it out pretty quickly. won't the noise be too much? a projector would only be 3 or so feet directly above the MLS or just behind. plus i think i would have to run additional AC to keep it cool. the ceiling is all open and unfinished so it could be done. i really have not searched projector install threads. maybe my impressions are wrong.

dave


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I have never heard my projector fan run and it is right above my second row - the sound of the movie has always covered any sound from the fan.

Is this room in the basement?


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## Cyberfloatie (Jun 1, 2011)

david yurik said:


> i thought about it but ruled it out pretty quickly. won't the noise be too much? a projector would only be 3 or so feet directly above the MLS or just behind. plus i think i would have to run additional AC to keep it cool. the ceiling is all open and unfinished so it could be done. i really have not searched projector install threads. maybe my impressions are wrong.
> 
> dave


I never hear my projector (Epson 8500UB), especially not while a show is actually playing. It's on a shelf above and behind the main listening position but I've sat in all the seats in our room at various times (tend to let friends and relatives experience the best seats) and I honestly can't say I've ever heard it. FWIW, I never hear the auto-iris either.


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

ALMFamily said:


> Is this room in the basement?


yes its a basement area and with the ceiling open i can run ductwork up there even if its just a recirc fan to pull air out of the main room and blow/pull it across the projector. 



Cyberfloatie said:


> I never hear my projector (Epson 8500UB), especially not while a show is actually playing. It's on a shelf above and behind the main listening position but I've sat in all the seats in our room at various times (tend to let friends and relatives experience the best seats) and I honestly can't say I've ever heard it. FWIW, I never hear the auto-iris either.


this dag gum website is going to cost me..... both financially and with the WAF!! now i have to consider a projector and a screen and....... it never ends. it really never ends!!

dave


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

In a room that size, you could certainly get by with a flat screen on the wall and have a good picture. The new 4k sets are SWEET! Probably about the same $$$ as a PJ and screen though pending what you would get.


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## simpsonb4 (Dec 27, 2013)

My room I'm considering is 15'-6" x 13'-0" so not much bigger. I'm doing a 4 row seating setup too. I have a 106" diag screen and PJ I'll be putting in there, may go a touch bigger on the screen though. Considering a riser as a base trap solution and front corner traps. Just reading through the threads to get ideas, it's a few months away yet.

Good luck with yours! I'll be watching.


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## Basite (Nov 29, 2012)

david yurik said:


> i thought about it but ruled it out pretty quickly. won't the noise be too much? a projector would only be 3 or so feet directly above the MLS or just behind. plus i think i would have to run additional AC to keep it cool. the ceiling is all open and unfinished so it could be done. i really have not searched projector install threads. maybe my impressions are wrong.
> 
> dave



My projector is about 70cm away from me, I only hear it when everything else is silent. During a movie or show, noise isn't a problem.

You could get one that has a higher projection ratio, so the PJ can be further back in the room. I chose a Optoma Hd131xe (budget, I'm a student), also for that reason.

Think about it: big AT screen, speakers behind it on listening height, basically fill the whole wall with screen.
You could DIY the screen too, saves costs... 

regards,
Bert.


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## Cyberfloatie (Jun 1, 2011)

Basite said:


> You could DIY the screen too, saves costs...


He speaks the truth! I built a 137" Blackout Cloth screen using 1x4 and some metal brackets to support the joints. I spent about $80 total, including a T50 stapler. How good is it? I have zero complaints! The viewing angle is great and we use it in a light controlled room so it doesn't have to handle ambient. I will probably never change it until I can afford upgrade to an acoustically transparent CIH screen, a distant dream at this point.

As for projectors, don't go overboard to start with. Just get something economical like the Acer H6510BD or ViewSonic PJD7820HD. If you love it, keep it, if not... use it to convince your SO that an upgrade down the road is worth it!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The adventure begins. Already talking about potential future upgrades... :T


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

simpsonb4 said:


> My room I'm considering is 15'-6" x 13'-0" so not much bigger. I'm doing a 4 row seating setup too. I have a 106" diag screen and PJ I'll be putting in there, may go a touch bigger on the screen though. Considering a riser as a base trap solution and front corner traps. Just reading through the threads to get ideas, it's a few months away yet.


don't hold your breath my friend. this will be a long arduous process for sure. and with me being cheap ( i would say frugal ) like i am, the equipment purchases will take some time. i have lots of patience for the right deal. 



Basite said:


> My projector is about 70cm away from me, I only hear it when everything else is silent. During a movie or show, noise isn't a problem.
> 
> You could get one that has a higher projection ratio, so the PJ can be further back in the room. I chose a Optoma Hd131xe (budget, I'm a student), also for that reason.
> 
> ...


fine burt, i will go the projector route. you twisted my arm and talked me into it!!



Cyberfloatie said:


> He speaks the truth! I built a 137" Blackout Cloth screen using 1x4 and some metal brackets to support the joints. I spent about $80 total, including a T50 stapler. How good is it? I have zero complaints! The viewing angle is great and we use it in a light controlled room so it doesn't have to handle ambient. I will probably never change it until I can afford upgrade to an acoustically transparent CIH screen, a distant dream at this point.
> 
> As for projectors, don't go overboard to start with. Just get something economical like the Acer H6510BD or ViewSonic PJD7820HD. If you love it, keep it, if not... use it to convince your SO that an upgrade down the road is worth it!


doug i poked around but could not find your build thread or pics. i only saw the rough drawing in your portland place link from the sig. do you have a write up somewhere??

thanks for all the info.

dave


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## Cyberfloatie (Jun 1, 2011)

david yurik said:


> doug i poked around but could not find your build thread or pics. i only saw the rough drawing in your portland place link from the sig. do you have a write up somewhere??


Nope. The last photo in my build thread changed my life and now I have neither the time or money to go back and finish what I started. I hope to finish someday, and maybe I'll make some progress this year. I'll definitely update that thread when I do. Until then I live vicariously through everyone else's posts here.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Dave, don't worry at all about the size. I love cozy rooms, they may take a little extra planning to get right, but they can be so rewarding. How many people will usually be using the room? You can set up a main couch for 2 or 3, and have bean bags for extras.

I'll also vote for staying with 7.1 in a room that size, especially if on a budget. Aim for proper placement of speakers and screen, some well-planned acoustic treatment, and keep everything neat and tidy, and you'll have a great movie room.


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

I see a space with BIG potential since your seating needs are very realistic. 

I'd suggest that steel beam become a soffit, and widen the room even more. Then build symmetrical soffits.

Now think a DIY SeymourAV acoustically transparent screen with all speakers hidden up front. One row of four seats.


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

You don't need 9.1 to reproduce the soundtrack. Dual subs will help smooth bass response in the room. 

You could also build subwoofers and finish in a simple plain black finish. They needn't be beautiful if they are behind an AT screen.


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## cavchameleon (Jan 7, 2008)

I agree with everyone else, the room may be small, but can be made to be wonderful (and nothing beats a dedicated room!). Consult with Bryan Page on acoustic treatment, that will make a big difference in a room that size. Also, seating needs to be addressed as above. We went with a couch to give more seating spots, but if more sit, they are on the floor in front of the couch. For the most part, there is only three of us and it works well. Keep us posted!


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

Owen Bartley said:


> How many people will usually be using the room? You can set up a main couch for 2 or 3, and have bean bags for extras. I'll also vote for staying with 7.1 in a room that size, especially if on a budget. Aim for proper placement of speakers and screen, some well-planned acoustic treatment, and keep everything neat and tidy, and you'll have a great movie room.


we are a family of five. we could easily put two nice recliners in the middle and let the kids fend for themselves. honestly i think it would be me and the kids. i don't think the WAF is into like the rest of us. thanks for the 7.1 vote.



Tedd said:


> I'd suggest that steel beam become a soffit, and widen the room even more. Then build symmetrical soffits. Now think a DIY SeymourAV acoustically transparent screen with all speakers hidden up front. One row of four seats.


i don't know if i can explain this properly. my plan was to frame a wall directly under the beam so the room side of the cap plate ( 2 X 4 ) would be flush with the bottom room side of the beam. then i could run the drywall nice and straight from the floor to the ceiling. this would leave the top 10 to 12 " of the drywall basically floating up to the ceiling.



Tedd said:


> You don't need 9.1 to reproduce the soundtrack. Dual subs will help smooth bass response in the room. You could also build subwoofers and finish in a simple plain black finish. They needn't be beautiful if they are behind an AT screen.


i have been shopping for the behringer ep-4000 for some time. a google search for diy subs is what initially got me to hts. the plan was to run dual 15" sealed subs. i don't want to mess a whole bunch with the tuning and definitely don't want to eq the sub. i can build a nice strong box. i sealed two 8" subs in my car and they sounded exactly how i wanted. i am confident sealed 15's would do nicely. along with the acoustic treatment. i didn't even think about that till this thread. another vote for 7.1.... hmmmmm a pattern is emerging here!!

thanks for all the response. this is what makes HTS so awesome!!

dave


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

I understand what your wall plan was. That's what everyone would naturally do.  
But if an extra foot or so, of theater width was desired, then you could hide the beam in a soffit.
And then you could build a matching symmetrical soffit on the other side wall, and put it to work. 
It could house bass traps, or hide a conduit run and become a design feature, for little work or 
expense. 

The kids could fend for themselves with some beanbag chairs. 

I have four 15" drivers and four 18" passive radiators in 2 subs. Borders on insanity, but the cost was less then one really good retail channel sub and the second sub is there for smoother bass response. 
A pair of 15" subs and that Ep-4000 is still overkill but money well spent. 

If you do that straight wall, then put some blocking in the floor joist area. Then you can cut the drywall longer then the room height and notch it to fit around the floor joists. That way you can screw the drywall to the blocking, to support the upper edge.


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

Tedd said:


> But if an extra foot or so, of theater width was desired, then you could hide the beam in a soffit. And then you could build a matching symmetrical soffit on the other side wall, and put it to work.
> 
> The kids could fend for themselves with some beanbag chairs.


matching soffits - another fantastic idea and that would give me about another foot or so on the finished width. plus a new place to run wires. great great ideas here.

kids your on your own!!

dave


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

"this dag gum website is going to cost me..... both financially and with the WAF!! now I have to consider a projector and a screen."

Actually the good advice will save you from mistakes and ensure you get a superior room that can nail the WAF. There's no shortage of great used gear out there, and the lower end projectors can be impressive in the right environment. 

Something like a SeymourAV XD DIY AT screen offers very good performance while nailing WAF by making speakers disappear. An AT screen can further be leveraged by hiding less then beautiful speakers. 

A great example of a budget build is JuanFalco's. No shortage of WAF here, even the kids got involved. 

One of the best examples I have see of a budget build with a large dose of WAF, is JuanFlaco's. :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1303660/mini-man-cave-phase-2-could-use-help-planning


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

Tedd said:


> One of the best examples I have see of a budget build with a large dose of WAF, is JuanFlaco's. : http://www.avsforum.com/t/1303660/mini-man-cave-phase-2-could-use-help-planning


i read that link before. a very nice build.

i lost another ebay auction. a yamaha rx-v667 went for 204. my max was 201.50. dang dang dang!!!

i texted a close contact from craigslist about a pretty clean pair of bang and olufsen redline 140's. lets hope he has the stands!!

dave


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

Maybe you should be the guy doing the last second sniping instead...


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