# Is dlp a bettter option than LCD... for the $$$



## mach (Dec 22, 2008)

I'm looking into a new mits 65" dlp. it has a 6 color engine, with 120hz refresh rate. prices run about 2000. no way i can get close to that size with a lcd for the same price. Our local stores don't stock the mits, so i can't do a picture next to picture comparison. In your opinion, which system, dlp or lcd has the *best *picture? i know the bulbs go out on the dlp sets, but i can find bulbs for around $100 bucks. i wonder what the average life is on bulbs. What will i lose or gain, picking a DLP set over a LCD ?
Also, will playing video games (PS3), harm either the dlp or the lcd sets? in my seating arrangement, the front row will be approx. 8' from the tv, is that too close for a 65" set?
Thanks for your help guys, as you can tell... i'm new to this stuff.

mach


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Both technologies can give a great picture. Both can be less great as well. The Mits is a fine set and comparing it to the best LCD panels, I think you would find that the quality is similar. The LCD will be brighter, but the DLP set will be much larger for a similar price range. As for the preferred size, I would watch the sets from the distance that you will be using. If you are unsure, err to the larger size. In nearly 30 years of working with large displays, I have only had a very few clients wish that they had a smaller set, and those have typically been for design reasons.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I have the Samsung HL67A750 67-Inch 1080p LED Powered DLP HDTV which runs $2014 delivered in our store. I also have the 61" model. 

I have only compared them side by side in several stores, although they are hardly ever setup properly, one doesn't ever seem to look that much better than the other to me. Of all my setups I have seen in DLP, LCD or Plasma, the DLP looks just as good to me. The LED allows for longer bulb life... supposedly around 20,000 hours, basically laying claim of no bulb replacement needed.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

The one that is calibrated properly will almost always be the best.


----------



## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Things I would look at with dlp before making a final decision - is the brightness uniform around the whole screen, or is it bright in the middle and then things get progressively darker as you approach the corners? How much does the picture wash out if you move just slightly off axis? Is the picture vibrant and 3d like?


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

What DLPs have darker corners? Never seen that in one operating properly.


----------



## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Most models have had this issue for some time - it has even been measured and quantified in certain reviews. That's not to say it is an issue on this particular set, just something to keep in mind.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I have never bothered to measure it, and in the years of servicing and calibrating them, I have never had a consumer complain of the problem, though it may exist. That suggests to me that it is not significant to most consumers, and many of ours can be pretty demanding. I would not make this a decision point to reject DLP. It may be somewhat moot anyway, as before long there will be virtually no one making DLP RP sets other than Mitsubishi, as other vendors move exclusively to flat panel technology and front projection.


----------



## Dalman (Dec 10, 2008)

I just received my new 67A750 LED DLP yesterday:yay2:

$1899.00 on Amazon. great price.


the LED light engine has no color wheel, or bulb to go out. Colors needed tweaking out of box,
and I got it looking good, but I still want to calibrate it.
The brightness is good and has good manual settings.


----------



## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

Got mine at Vann's $1745 and 5 year warranty ($250), can from using RP LCD and just a big difference. Would have gone DLP earlier but was worried about color wheel, but since this 750 doesn't have that wheel, I just gave myself a early B-day gift. 

I've read that this model has some convergence issues and other small stuff, but I have found that if you want problems you will always see problems. In a perfect world we would not need these types of forums, but I don't live there and i'm not sweating the small Sh&t, this set look great.


----------



## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

I love the colors of the DLP. If they could only be like a flat panel like the Plasmas or LCDs and stay lower in cost then these two, I'd be all over it. So, since that is not the case, I am looking to go Plasma here very soon. I do own LCD and its reliable, but I like the better blacks and higher contrast / deeper blacks on the plasma. Just looks so much more vibe to it.

But that is just my humble opinion.


----------



## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

:daydream::huh:


Picture_Shooter said:


> I love the colors of the DLP. If they could only be like a flat panel like the Plasmas or LCDs and stay lower in cost then these two, I'd be all over it. So, since that is not the case, I am looking to go Plasma here very soon. I do own LCD and its reliable, but I like the better blacks and higher contrast / deeper blacks on the plasma. Just looks so much more vibe to it.
> 
> But that is just my humble opinion.


I think there is a point that BTB & WTW has its limits. With my LED-DLP my eyes can see a man wearing all black but still see three different blacks, from red to blue and deep black. There is a point when you need to stop applying others view points to your equipment buying. I will never hear as well as my dog does or sees as well as him either, so why should i think I will hear or see something better if i buy this or that based on others opinions. Your hearing or vision is not getting better as you get older.:nerd: I have read many reviews of for this TV any many complain about view angle or conversion issues, from 7+ feet away i don't have issues and I don't sit to the side while watching this TV and none of the room seating is outside of the 60° angle side-to-side viewing. This LED-DLP is drop dead PQ and for the price and longevity of the LED light source (60,000 hrs) you are not going to get a better cost per-square-in value.

Ok, I'll get off my soap-box now:boxer:


----------



## nathometheatre (Feb 17, 2009)

organicled said:


> :daydream::huh:
> This LED-DLP is drop dead PQ and for the price and longevity of the LED light source (60,000 hrs) you are not going to get a better cost per-square-in value.
> :


I've read where my Samsung HL67A750 Life span is anywhere from 20,000 hours to (as you've said) 60,000 hours. Does anyone know which is true? I'm sure if the backlight is set anywhere above 50%, I can see how this would/could effect the longivity of the LED panel light source, but I was just curious which is more accurate? 
Also, does anyone know the least expensive way to have my Samsung calibrated without trying to do it myself?


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

No one really knows how reliable nor long-lived the LED modules will be. I have heard estimates in the 50-60Khrs, but they have not been in the field that long. The cost of the LED units is not that high on the ones that I checked, but I am not sure about the labor involved. I do not know of anyone who has changed one yet. I am sure that some have failed, but it is not a common occurence.

As for calibration, narrow spectrum light source displays like LED based LCDs, DLPs, and projectors, and the new laser based sets, require a spectrophotometer to calibrate properly. The i1 is the least expensive one, but its spectral resolution may not be fine enough to accruately measure these sets. As far as professionals with the right equipment, Jeff Meier is in your area and is one of the best. I would highly recommend using him if you decide to go that route. I would not buy a cheap filter based colorimeter and expect to get it right.


----------



## nathometheatre (Feb 17, 2009)

Do you have any idea as to what we're talking about cost wise? Provided I try this guy out? Money is tight right now, as I'm already ultra conservative. So can you give me a ball park for a 67" DLP? I know Sonny has the same DLP I have (Sammy HL67A750), so Sonny if you're reading this, did you get your Sammy calibrated? Or did you do it yourself?


----------



## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

DLP is amazing it's the mirrors.:yay2:


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

nathometheatre said:


> Do you have any idea as to what we're talking about cost wise? Provided I try this guy out? Money is tight right now, as I'm already ultra conservative. So can you give me a ball park for a 67" DLP? I know Sonny has the same DLP I have (Sammy HL67A750), so Sonny if you're reading this, did you get your Sammy calibrated? Or did you do it yourself?


Why don't you give Jeff a call and check it out for yourself. His company is Accucal. Each job and calibrator is different. Discuss specifically what can be done with your system, what you want to accomplish, and get him to give you a quote.


----------



## digital desire (Dec 17, 2006)

Just bought a new LCD display this weekend. 
Not ONE DLP set in four different stores, including best buy and sears. 
I am thinking the DLP has come and gone.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Mitsubishi is currently the only manufacturer producing rear projection DLP sets. They have 65", 73", and 81" sets in lamp based units, and a 65" in a laser based unit. Most big box stores do not carry them because they take up more space and the market segment for RPTV is down to under 10%. It is reall a specialty item now.

DLP in general is still a very viable technology, but, like LCoS will mostly be seen in projectors.


----------



## nathometheatre (Feb 17, 2009)

It really surprises me that their doing away with DLP's. I found that when I purchased my Samsung HL67A750 just last September, there were few LCD's and Plasma's that could reproduce a picture like this Sammy does. Sharp's AQUOS LCD's and Pioneer's KURO Plasma's where the only two where I could see a significant image that out did that of the Sammy (at that time). And, you got more picture for the $$. I don't get it.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Market share. Retail floor space. Flatness is cool. Warehouse space. Ease of replacement and service.

There are lots of reasons, but mostly the market perception that people want thin flat screens. Mitsubishi is betting that the value factor and being the only player will allow them to gain market share and status as the "big screen company" that they have always tried to maintain.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> Mitsubishi is currently the only manufacturer producing rear projection DLP sets.


So no more Samsung DLP's?


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Nope, not RPTV. They still make the projectors, including the one that Joe Kane helped design that is supposed to be exceptional. The last production of RPTV ended in December, according to the Samsung tech rep that told us about it.


----------



## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

> I found that when I purchased my Samsung HL67A750 just last September, there were few LCD's and Plasma's that could reproduce a picture like this Sammy does. Sharp's AQUOS LCD's and Pioneer's KURO Plasma's where the only two where I could see a significant image that out did that of the Sammy (at that time).


:dontknow: Sharp AQUOS has never really been a standout performer among LCDs, especially not in the past couple of years.


----------



## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

I have an Olevia 42 inch LCD and a Mitsi 60 inch DLP and 9/10 I'm watching TV and/or playing video games on the Mitsu - the brightness difference between the LCD and DLP are not an issue and while there are differences, they are not enough of a problem to NOT take advantage of smoking DLP deals. Tigerdirect has a 65" mitsi HD DLP on sale for $1299....you can't beat that with a stick!


----------



## andy123 (Jul 23, 2009)

LCD usually boasts a high contrast ratio and very fast refresh rates, which makes for easy-on-the-eyes viewing and very little blur when watching high-speed events such as sports. With less glare than plasma, these make for great looking home televisions. However, LCD design creates what can sometimes be a limited viewing angle. 
In a DLP TV, the core component is the bulb. While the bulbs have a limited lifespan (usually about 4,000 to 5,000 hours), and cost about $300 to replace, there is no such thing as "burn-in" with a DLP TV. When the image starts to dim and the picture gets blurry or faded, replacing the bulb will rejuvenate the image. With LCD, burn-in is a significant issue, which occurs when the TV is left on too long or sometimes even just from extended use. When that happens with an LCD, the only option is to replace the entire screen. With DLP, a new bulb is like getting a new TV. In addition, with DLP, dead pixels are much less of an issue, as the individual pixels are not turned on and off the way they are with an LCD screen.

Hope it clears things


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

andy123 said:


> LCD usually boasts a high contrast ratio and very fast refresh rates, which makes for easy-on-the-eyes viewing and very little blur when watching high-speed events such as sports. With less glare than plasma, these make for great looking home televisions. However, LCD design creates what can sometimes be a limited viewing angle.
> In a DLP TV, the core component is the bulb. While the bulbs have a limited lifespan (usually about 4,000 to 5,000 hours), and cost about $300 to replace, there is no such thing as "burn-in" with a DLP TV. When the image starts to dim and the picture gets blurry or faded, replacing the bulb will rejuvenate the image. With LCD, burn-in is a significant issue, which occurs when the TV is left on too long or sometimes even just from extended use. When that happens with an LCD, the only option is to replace the entire screen. With DLP, a new bulb is like getting a new TV. In addition, with DLP, dead pixels are much less of an issue, as the individual pixels are not turned on and off the way they are with an LCD screen.
> 
> Hope it clears things


If we are talking about DLP RPTV, the cost of lamps is $99, not $300, for any of the lamps for the new Mitsubishi sets, which are the only new products available now.

Also, burn in is NOT an issue with LCD. PDPs have potential fo burn in but it is far less of an issue than it once was, and with a properly calibrated set, it is unlikely to be a problem for most users.


----------



## Jarrod (Sep 29, 2009)

Regarding the discussion about the life of the LED light sources in these LED-DLP sets....

I have had a Samsung HL-T6187s for 25 months and the red LED module just burned out on my set. Doing a little bit of research reveals that this is a very common issue on these sets, and that Samsung engineers apparently knew they were pushing things just based on the tremendous cooling device they put on this module. They attached huge copper heat pipes and fans that are reminiscent of a computer over-clocker's cooling setup.

So in my experience you will be fortunate to get 5000 hours out of one of these LED modules (at least the red one) before expecting a repair. The part costs around $100. The labor is of course dependent on who is in your area. I believe this is also a DIY project for advanced DIYers, if you purchase the service manual.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am assuming this will be covered under my 5 year warranty if it happens within that time frame... after that, I figure I'll own a different set.


----------



## Jarrod (Sep 29, 2009)

Yeah the extended warranty should get you taken care of if you experience this issue. I didn't have one so just spent my evening replacing the red LED module myself. My cost was about two hours tracking down the part, a total of $104 for the part plus service manual plus shipping, and another two hours of my time doing the repair. Back up and running good as new for now....

Samsung did offer to cover parts out of warranty after I scolded them for such poor lifetime on a part that they touted as having 10x the life that I obtained. But they required me to go through an authorized service center (where I would have to pay for labor and wait for them to get parts and put me on their schedule). So I decided it was cheaper and faster to just buy parts and do the repair myself.


----------



## nathometheatre (Feb 17, 2009)

I'm sorry to hear you had to repair your LED DLP in such a short time period. I've had my Sammy HL-67A750 just over a year now, and watch a lot of movies and TV. Probably 6 hours a night or so. My whole reason I made this purchase and chose this model, was its spectacular picture and its supposed 60k hours life span. I'd personally be seriously upset at Samsung if I didn't get close to what they quote for a lifespan. Although DLP's were considerably less than the competitions LCD & Plasma flat screens, were still talking about $2,000 here which is to me a considerable and significant investment. So again, handing over $2100 (which included the matching two shelf table stand) to Best Buy for my Sammy, I'd expect in return a long life span and years of great picture quality from a name brand such as Samsung. If I don't get what they advertised for this tv (whether I purchased an extended warranty or not), They'll be hearing from me until this problem is rectified at their expense! I've bought three different TV's from Samsung, one being a 40" LCD for our bedroom, and an older model 51" (i think) DLP which I had for nearly three years and I never replaced the bulb once and used it 6 hours a day atleast, and it looked as good as the day I bought it! I sold it for $800 and told the buyer if he had any problems (since he lived close by) depending on what the issue was I'd help him out. I never heard back from him, so I assume he continued to get great performance from the Sammy DLP I sold him. Since Sept 08' when I bought my new Sammy, it looks like it did the day I bought it. So I'm seriously hoping I get long life out of this DLP, as I don't intend on buying another one or upgrading anytime soon.


----------



## Jarrod (Sep 29, 2009)

nathometheatre said:


> My whole reason I made this purchase and chose this model, was its spectacular picture and its supposed 60k hours life span.


Yeah, me too. I'm extremely irritated about the situation. My last TV was a Toshiba CRT set that kept needing a $300 convergence IC replacement every couple of years. So I got burned on that set, which is why I picked the LED-DLP. No convergence required, and bonus: no lamps to fail. WRONG.

The only saving grace is that it really is a terrific TV - super sharp picture, no burn-in, nice big image, low energy consumption, and all for a relatively affordable price given the screen size. If I have to spend $100 every couple of years to keep it running, I will. But I won't be happy with Samsung :rolleyesno:


----------



## nathometheatre (Feb 17, 2009)

Jarrod,
I take it you didn't buy the extended warranty (as I didn't either for that matter), but nevertheless, I'd still take this up with Sansung's corporate office. You shouldn't have to think in terms that you're going to have to spend money on this tv every couple of years. Yes, maybe 5 years from now, but not on a fairly new TV. That's my advice and what I'd do if it were me in your shoes. 
By the way, I looked at your profile and see that you have a nice little set up there! B&W speakers, oh yeah! I have the Klipsch Reference 7 system which I'm quite happy with. Best of luck! Kevin


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Jarrod said:


> Yeah, me too. I'm extremely irritated about the situation. My last TV was a Toshiba CRT set that kept needing a $300 convergence IC replacement every couple of years. So I got burned on that set, which is why I picked the LED-DLP. No convergence required, and bonus: no lamps to fail. WRONG.
> 
> The only saving grace is that it really is a terrific TV - super sharp picture, no burn-in, nice big image, low energy consumption, and all for a relatively affordable price given the screen size. If I have to spend $100 every couple of years to keep it running, I will. But I won't be happy with Samsung :rolleyesno:


It is very unusual for a PROPERLY REPAIRED convergence problem to re-occur in the life of a set. Many sets never have a problem at all, though the convergence output ICs are well known to be a high failure point. Every RP CRT set ever made with these output ICs had similar tendencies, and the history of the issue was nearly two decades. It was just the nature of the type of circuit. Some were more poorly designed than others and had more problems.

The LED lit sets have, thus far, actually been quite reliable by comparison. The number of bad LEDs that I hear about other servicers replacing is VERY low. The Samsung service reps seem very happy with the numbers so far, though they obviously do not release them. I would not be concerned. I don't expect the scale of repairs on these to be anywhere near what we saw in CRT based sets. That said, Samsung has a tendency to build cheap to buy market share. The good news is that they were not the OEM for the LED devices used in these sets. I would not be surprised if other problems in the sets turn out to be more common than LED failures.


----------



## Jarrod (Sep 29, 2009)

lcaillo said:


> I would not be concerned. I don't expect the scale of repairs on these to be anywhere near what we saw in CRT based sets. That said, Samsung has a tendency to build cheap to buy market share. The good news is that they were not the OEM for the LED devices used in these sets. I would not be surprised if other problems in the sets turn out to be more common than LED failures.


I really hope you are correct about this. But there seem to be a large number of failures cropping up on other RPTV forums. So I am skeptical, especially since I have fallen victim to the issue...

There is one fact that gives me some hope - the original part number from Samsung has been superseded not once, but twice now. My hope is that this change was due to the OEM making improvements in the part to address this issue. Mine is now replaced with the latest "version" of the part as of this writing so perhaps I'm in for a number of trouble-free years....I can hope.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I tend to be skeptical of assumptions about the scope of problems based on reading about them on forums. It is certainly a good example of a biased sample. It is unfortunate that we do not have better information about the failure rates of various brands, models, and technologies. The vendors generally don't want that information to get out, and I am not sure how one would track it, other than with the numbers of parts that they sell, and warranty repair records.

When I start to see techs talking about problems frequently and the same fixes showing up in the symptom/repair databases, or backorders on parts, then I start to take them more seriously. There has been little of that on the Samsung LED based DLP sets, so far.


----------



## Jarrod (Sep 29, 2009)

lcaillo said:


> When I start to see techs talking about problems frequently and the same fixes showing up in the symptom/repair databases, or backorders on parts, then I start to take them more seriously. There has been little of that on the Samsung LED based DLP sets, so far.


So you work in the industry? Not sure how carefully you follow this issue, but a few people on another forum who had this problem earlier this year said this part was on nationwide backorder then. That didn't sound like a good sign to me. It could have been due to the economy, though...inventories were ridiculously low on just about everything in Q2.

Like I said, I sincerely hope you are right, and that now I'm in for several years of trouble-free service from my Samsung set after having to repair it at 25 months. I agree about forums being a biased sample, so maybe the better way to put it would be that if you are going to have a problem with your set in the first few years, it is likely to be this problem since it seems to be the most common issue that people seem to be suffering from.


----------

