# Building a House... Looking for Advice



## warren1 (Jul 19, 2010)

I am building a house and looking to finish my Man Cave (basement) right away. I want it to be a large open entertaining area and looking to put a big screen (not sure between 60" or greater or a projector) and a mid range surround sound package. I am leaning towards starting with the plasma. The problem is that the basement is large and open... 30' x 30' and I want people to be able to watch the big screen while playing pool or sitting at a small bar. I read that you do not want to have a square room and it will not be optimal for sound. 

For me, picture clarity and blacks are important because I watch a lot of movies and sports. I also like quality loud surround sound. Watching the Predator and feeling the shells hit the ground gives me chills. 

Please let me know if I am on track...

Right now I have an old Pioneer Receiver, 15' Cerwin Vega floor speakers, Klipsch center channel, Klipsch rears, and a Dalquast 15' down firing sub... While I never could really use the sub in my apartment (or really needed it) the system was loud and pretty clear when cranked...

For the basement I was looking at:

- 14 gauge in-wall wire to all the speaker locations...
- Floor speakers and center channel built in the wall covered by the speaker screen set for 110' screen in case projector is desired later...
- In-wall mids and In-wall rears... I could consider hanging speakers but not sure how much sound quality you need in the rears...
- Electricity to projector location 

Questions: Budget $6,000 or so... Rather have quality than cheap out 

$2500 TV
$1000 Receiver
$2000 Speakers/Sub

1) How many Cat5 cables should I pull? I have a PS3 and plan to hook up a Mac to the TV. I was thinking 3... If I go with a projector I still only need to hook one Cat5 to the receiver correct?

2) How do you choose the location of the TV from the staircase down if it is an open square and you can put it anywhere... there are no windows...? 

3) If I want crisp loud sound are floor speakers the way to go? I have friends that work at Best Buy and I can get a big discount on all my stuff. Should I add an amp?

4) Anything else that I should be thinking of when designing this room? 

I love the website and have been reading all the old posts... new member and first time post!

Thanks,
Mike


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Welcome to the shack. 

For a room that size large floor standers are a neccesity in my book, inwalls just won't cut it.:T


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Even with the Best Buy discount, you can do better for most stuff (both price and quality) on the internet and by shopping around. Sad but true, and trust me, I know.

The pieces I would say you might do well to buy at Best Buy will be the TV/Projector and the AVR. Even with the Best Buy discount, I wouldn't buy cables or speakers from there, even at discount, with only a few exceptions, none of which fit your criteria. Plus you should be careful about talking up the employee discount: you can get your friend in trouble. He's not supposed to be using his discount to buy you stuff unless it's a bona fide gift.

You'll notice I said "projector". I really think that's the only way to go in a room that big. Even a 60" is going to look small from 20+ feet away. You could do both a small, inexpensive TV for casual viewing (32") in a nook and then a projector with fixed or drop-down screen for movies and big sports.

As far as inwalls, I'm assuming that you meant only the wire would be inwall, that the speakers would not. Either way, I agree that inwalls would not be a good idea, but a set of large bookshelves will perform as well as towers, and for the same money, you'll get better quality and finish. Of course, you'll have to add in the cost for stands or wall-mounts, and the performance I just quoted is all predicated on a high quality sub, so keep that in mind.

1) With the new HDBaseT hopefully becoming a standard, http://www.hdbaset.org/ , I'd run atleast 4 cat 5 to your equipment closet. This will give you 2 that you can use for video/audio distribution, 1 for the new standard, and one for internet/network access (you can always add a switch to share that access). Or, for the time being, just use them all for network. The point is, get them in the wall while it's open.

2) Please post a diagram and/or pictures

3) I covered this already.

4) Acoustics of a room are the second biggest thing that affects you sound, right after the speakers. Plan on Acoustic Treatments.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Well, for my part I will agree and disagree about the in-wall speakers. I have heard some absolutely fantastic in-wall speaker home theater systems, but they all come at a high price. 

Looking at your budget, I would definitely recommend in room speakers. Also, if you want "crisp loud sound" I would suggest you stick with Klipsch. That is, if you like the ones you already have. I'd put your whole $2000 budget into three floor standing mains behind an AT screen, I'd also keep the Klipsch rears that you already have and the Dalquist sub. You have a whole lotta space to fill with sound and not a lot budgeted toward that. May also take $200 - $300 off of your receiver and add it to speakers.

Of course, that's just my two cents and another route to consider


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

It really depends on how elaborate you want to be, but in a room that size I'd look at JTR tripple 8s. I think anything consumer level is gonna struggle to fill that size space. I'd definitely do projector, but it would probably be easier to paint the screen on the wall than do an AT screen. I think the tripple 8's may be above your budget though. If so we can look at something else. I just don't want to see you not having enough headroom for a room that size.

As far as dimensions I think at that size a square room is less of a deal than at say 16' x 16' I'd probably add some tri corner traps and treatments, but I'd not treat the side walls unless you have powerful enough amp/speakers. 

I'm cheap so I'd do it as cheaply as you can while still having a great setup. Good pool tables cost a lot too and you don't want to cheap out on those.


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## warren1 (Jul 19, 2010)

Thank you for the advice... I will look into those JTRs.

Couple more questions...

- With a projector I assume I have to run just one HDMI cable to the ceiling location where the electrical will be wired correct?...

- What specific brand of speaker wire would you suggest to run in the walls? I saw that RAM store being suggested.

- Should I run Cat5 cable to every TV location in my new house just to be prepared?


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

warren1 said:


> Thank you for the advice... I will look into those JTRs.
> 
> Couple more questions...
> 
> ...


I'd not run cat5 until the spec comes through. You only need one cable for the projector. Monoprice.com is an installer supply website open to the general public. I'd get their in wall stuff. 14 gauge would do the job. The JTRs are the best pro speakers I've heard. They have incredible headroom. To get the full power out of them you'd need a pro-amp, but they will work fine with a good receiver too. If you're not an expert on pool I'd be happy to ask my brother what kind of table to get he runs a pool league so he knows his stuff.


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## sga2 (Nov 14, 2009)

warren1 said:


> - What specific brand of speaker wire would you suggest to run in the walls? I saw that RAM store being suggested.


I used Belden 5000UP (commercial grade, 2-12ga., unshielded twisted pair, CL3) after reading alot of good things about Belden on this and other forums. I purchased from a local (Atlanta, GA) wholesaler, ~$180 for 500ft spool. I checked Belden.com website, did a search for local distributors (under "Sales & Support" tab), and called about 10 of them to get the best price. I wired up the whole HT project (7-channel), including bi-wire for front 3 speakers, plus wiring for my living room 5.1 system, and still have some left over which I'll hold onto for future project. They also have a 14ga. version (don't remember product number) which is less costly. 

I did same for coax cable (for CATV, line-level subwoofer inputs, and auxiliary AV input at a wall plate for my son's Wii). After much research, settled on Belden 1694a, looked up some local distributors, got best price. Since I only needed ~150ft (and only available in 500ft and 1000ft spools), I asked everyone I called if they'd sell by the foot. Most won't/can't, but I found one guy that would and got a great deal.

Monoprice has very good prices. I can't attest to the quality of the speaker wire, but I got an in-wall rated VGA cable (for laptop to PJ connection) for dirt cheap and it works great and seems to be well made. 
Whatever you get, *be sure it is rated for in-wall installation*.

Regards,
sga2


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

lsiberian said:


> I'd not run cat5 until the spec comes through.


I'd disagree with this. If your walls are open, and you don't have to pay a contractor to do it, cat5 is cheap and a bargain compared to the headache of running it later. I'd buy 1000ft spool and run a single data run to every room in the house, and 2 to every media location for video. I'd also do 2 runs of RG6 to every media loaction, and run everything to a central closet/garage/wherever. The cost of the install will easily be recouped when you sell the house, and you life will be so much easier while you are living in it. Wireless is great, but can't touch the speed/bandwidth and stability of wired.


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## sga2 (Nov 14, 2009)

eugovector said:


> I'd disagree with this. If your walls are open, and you don't have to pay a contractor to do it, cat5 is cheap and a bargain compared to the headache of running it later. I'd buy 1000ft spool and run a single data run to every room in the house, and 2 to every media location for video. I'd also do 2 runs of RG6 to every media loaction, and run everything to a central closet/garage/wherever. The cost of the install will easily be recouped when you sell the house, and you life will be so much easier while you are living in it. Wireless is great, but can't touch the speed/bandwidth and stability of wired.


Concur. I'd even take it a step further and run a spare Cat5 (I used Cat6, still pretty cheap) to anything that is remotely critical or which would be a real pain to have to redo later. A spare will come in handy in case one gets compromised (drywall screw, unintentional kink) or you find a use for it later. 

I ran three Cat6's from main ethernet switch to the AVR (one for Ethernet, one for future line level audio distribution, one spare), and two Cat6's from AVR to PJ (two wires for IR extender, two wires for 12V trigger, plus one spare cable). Just in case.

Regards,
sga2


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## Trick McKaha (Oct 7, 2009)

With the budget you gave, I support the recommendation that you go for a projector and screen. An acoustically transparent screen is a nice luxury, but you might also consider a retro-reflective screen, which combined with careful projector placement and careful placement of dim room lights, you can have your pool table illuminated and still see the projected image just fine.

I also agree that free standing speakers or at least bookshelf speakers will give the best sound for the money. Then just mount then or stand them up.

Receivers are overrated right now, in my opinion. Any decent 5.1 dolby digital receiver will sound as good as anything you can buy with most every DVD or BluRay you can get right now. So, I recommend you get a decent receiver with pre-outs for about $200, and then get a multichannel power amp if you want to beef up your sound - say Emotiva or Anthem, or something else in the 150 - 200 watts per channel range. Later you might get a 7.1 receiver if movies come out with 7.1 soundtracks, but why not wait until they do. By then, 3D TV and movies might require a new receiver, so not getting the latest receiver now may leave you the money for that later. Of course, wire for 7.1 sound now, just don't implement it in a hurry.

Room treatment with sound absorbers on your walls and floor will help a whole lot - carpet, tapestries, drapes - anything that stops sound reflections. Otherwise, even the best speakers will boom when you turn them up.

Lastly, multiple subwoofers placed randomly around help square rooms to sound good. The logic is that each subwoofer won't need to play too loud, and the room reverberations and resonance won't build up at one frequency - they will be mixed around the various resonances that develop between each subwoofer and it's distances to the walls. So, consider adding a couple more cheaper subwoofers to augment the bass and even it out.


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