# Do you upscale your audio?



## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

I have seen the new generation of multi-format players, and all of them see to have an upscale feature. Your 44.1k CDs can be played back at 176.2k for example. Does anyone use this feature?? I'm "playing" with it now with mixed results.


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

I try to stay as close to possible with the source. I don't like upscaling or altering the sound much.  On my pre/pro I always use pure audio setting to bypass as much processing as possible. Then again, I know there are people out there that like to change how it sounds to enjoy it, ie. going from 2-channel and post-process mixing to 5.1 or 7.1. Whatever sounds good to the person, I say.

Which way are your mixed results leaning more towards? Upscale or no?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Right now I'd say I'm _leaning_ (slightly) toward upscaling. I have always been a bit of a "purist" and use "direct mode" (bypass) for music too, so upscaling goes against my nature. It's hard to A/B as I can't simply change it while the music is playing, so I hear things that I like (detail for example) when I upscale but things that I dislike (a bit bright), too. Of course, some of this may be a placebo effect as I _know_ if it's upscaled or not.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

I use a MacBook Air with BitPerfect software controlling iTunes. The Schiit Bifrost DAC does not upsample, but does use a sophisticated master clock management system to preserve the original music samples, delivering bit-perfect data to the DAC whether they are 16/44.1 or 24/192. I've tried software upsampling in BitPerfect and did not like the results. Its bits and sampling frequency in and out.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

"Its bits and sampling frequency in and out"

Can you please elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean (I'm sure that *I'm* missing something). Thanks!!


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## koyaan (Mar 2, 2010)

I use upsamling often. I'm not sure it really helps, but it seems to.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

My Marantz universal player upsamples. I used to have a Yamaha that did so, too.

My impressions are that the highs seem more extended and relaxed, but the bass is leaner. I like the sound of the Marantz enough that I don't bother with upsampling, in fact I forgot about it until this thread. Plus I have to turn the TV on to navigate the menu, and my TV hardly ever comes on. Never warmed up to the Yamaha and returned it after a 30 day trial.

I have a different amp, cables and speakers than when I last tried. I'll give a listen to upsampling again this weekend and report back.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

wgmontgomery said:


> "Its bits and sampling frequency in and out"
> 
> Can you please elaborate? I'm not sure what you mean (I'm sure that *I'm* missing something). Thanks!!


If the source file is 16 bit, 44.1 kHz that is what is fed to the DAC chip, if its 24 bit, 192 kHz that is what is fed to the DAC chip. The Schiit Bifrost performs no bit depth or sampling rate conversion before the signal is sent to the DAC chip. I guess better put its bits and sampling rate in to the DAC chip using a microprocessor-controlled, bit-perfect clock management system to ensure that all the original music samples going into Bifrost are delivered to the D/A converter, whether running 16/44.1 or 24/192, rather than cheaping out and throwing in a sample-rate converter to get by with using a single clock.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Thanks Jay for the info.

I find that with upsampling, the soundstage seems wider, but I'm not sure if the highs are more "realistic" or just brighter. Cymbals seem more "real" (better attack and decay) but is it simply brighter?? I wish that I could change sample rates while the music is playing, but I can't. I think that I could get a better grasp on what is happening if I could.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Yesterday I was listening to an older CD (Billy Joel's _Glass Houses_) and my girlfriend walked into the room. She noticed the difference in sq immediately and described it as "tinny with no bass." She knows almost nothing about audio, but she did NOT like the up-sampled sound at all! I'll add that I was using HDMI instead of RCA (not the normal way I listen), but if she can hear such a drastic difference it sure makes me think...


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Just finished listening to clips of AC/DC "Back in Black" and Corvus Corax "Best of". I picked these because the sometimes piercing highs and solid low bass would help with this audition.

My impressions are the same as before:

- upsampling *OFF*, the highs are a little ragged, the bass is full.

- *176.4kHz (x4)* the highs mellowed, perhaps too much at times. The bass didn't have the weight of upsampling OFF.

- I forgot to include in my previous post that I found *88.2kHz (x2)* upsampling to be a good compromise, and actually preferred it to the other 2 options. This was true today, as well. High were softened while maintaining the solidity of the lower registers.

Keep in mind, this was sighted listening, with several seconds passing between setting changes. I also forgot to disable the front panel lights during the upsampling audition. I think I can hear a difference when I do this, but don't know for sure. :coocoo:


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Just checked to see if upsampling was enabled while playing DVD-A. As I suspected, it is not. 

I really love the smooth sound of properly done HiRez. I believe that is what upsampling Redbook is shooting for.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Interesting. :scratch: I found that up-sampling seems a bit bright on my system. Of course, different machines (probably) sound different, and my mains are very revealing (Dynaudio BM5A studio monitors). I'm using a fat PS3 for SA-CD and up-sampled audio; I doubt that it's ideal. A component designed for audio (or AV) probably does a better job of up-sampling and sounds better.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

It is quite probable that various players and DAC's will have their own upsample "sound".

Also, if the bass is rolled off, it might give the impression of increased treble energy.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

tesseract said:


> It is quite probable that various players and DAC's will have their own upsample "sound".
> 
> Also, if the bass is rolled off, it might give the impression of increased treble energy.


Very true.


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