# Help Calibrating system with Yamaha HTR 6160....



## bluejay (Sep 10, 2007)

I have a Yamaha 6160 receiver. It is not THX certified. It has lots of sound modes, choices, and adjustments. I have also read the manual a few times and tried a lot of things.

One of the only ways to hear something out of the rear speakers is to set it to "7 Channel Enhanced" mode. This is described as "use this channel to play back compression artifacts in 7 channel stereo."

So far I use this for all the decoding, including HD DVD sound. It is much louder with more bass punch, especially to the rear speakers and subwoofer.

Bottom line is 10 kinds of Dolby and DTS are not working for me yet? They turn on but they are hard to hear. I am not sure why the stereo artifact repair effect sounds so much better? Why not name it the "Ultra XHT DTS Dolby Super Combiner II PLX PCM.COM"


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: Receiver Surround modes, What should you use?*

Do you have the levels set correctly for the rear speakers? I'm not sure with your receiver but do you need to have the Cinema DSP turned on?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: Receiver Surround modes, What should you use?*



bluejay said:


> I have a Yamaha 6160 receiver... It has lots of sound modes, choices, and adjustments.
> 
> One of the only ways to hear something out of the rear speakers is to set it to "7 Channel Enhanced" mode. This is described as "use this channel to play back compression artifacts in 7 channel stereo."
> 
> ...


I own the RXV-2700, (this is used just for movies but I used a couple of times for music), the "7 Channel Enhanced" is good when you're listening to stereo material (radio, CD, etc.) ...but when it comes to movies I prefer to use any other DSP (in my case is set to Straight); I'm not sure but I think that if you use the 7 channel enhanced with HD DVD you will only ear the audio encoded for the front channels and the C+SR+SL+SBR and SBL will be missing:huh:...

When you use the other 10 kinds of Dolby and DTS your surrounds (specially back surrounds) wont play as loud as the fronts, remember that they will play special effects to fill the room ...there's few ocassions when they will sound loud.

I agree with Tony, just check that they're calibrated properly and you'll be fine.

If I were you, I'll use "7Channel enhanced" to listen to radio or CD's, for movies I'll use "Straight" or "Direct Mode" :yes:


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## bluejay (Sep 10, 2007)

*Re: Receiver Surround modes, What should you use?*



> Do you have the levels set correctly for the rear speakers? I'm not sure with your receiver but do you need to have the Cinema DSP turned on?


I have all the levels that aren't very loud set to max. This includes LFE subwoofer, 2 side surrounds, 2 rear surrounds. My fronts are set to medium, and I'm not using a center. Cinema DSP is working on the channels it pertains to. My sat receiver is set to Dolby 5.1. My HD DVD player is set to PCM mulitichannel, (it was set to Dolby or Auto). All of the speaker icons are lit on the front panel of the 6160.



> remember that they will play special effects to fill the room ...there's few ocassions when they will sound loud.


Since I couldn't hear the "rear effect" very much I set the speaker distances to 4 times what they are in reality. To me this means that I should be able to hear it from 25 feet away in a 50'x50' room?

So far, I can only conclude that the matrixed rear effect is too subtle to suit me? This is maybe 80% of our watching. I have not made a conclusion about the HD DVD sound yet, but I am not running around to quickly turn it down because it is too loud? I am always standing with my face in front of it trying to hear if it is on?

Something else I noticed with our set up. The LFE subwoofer channel is a bit too subtle by itself. I need to cross over the bass frequencies from the fronts or the sides to add to the overall level, (set fronts or sides to small). This passes a ton of more bass to the LFE channel which sounds anemic on it's own. Oh, and I have most of the bass adjustments maxed out whenever possible.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

*Re: Receiver Surround modes, What should you use?*



bluejay said:


> I have all the levels that aren't very loud set to max. This includes LFE subwoofer, 2 side surrounds, 2 rear surrounds. My fronts are set to medium, and I'm not using a center.


Did you use YPAO to auto-calibrate the system??? ...Do you have an SPL meter???

What I did on my system was to run YPAO first, then using the SPL I checked that all levels were setup properly (75db each channel and sub 78db-80db); all speakers need to be set to small (depending on the front speaker frequency response you can use them as large), crossover is better @ 80Hz.

What brand/model speakers are you using???

Fronts set to medium??? ...I see the large or small option on the manual :bigsmile:

LFE/Sub out has to be set to sub not Both or Front.



> My sat receiver is set to Dolby 5.1. My HD DVD player is set to PCM mulitichannel, (it was set to Dolby or Auto). All of the speaker icons are lit on the front panel of the 6160.


What other option do you have in the sat/receiver???

If you set the player to PCM multichannel, You are letting the player decode the audio, Right??? ...What happens if you set it to Auto and let the AVR decode the audio???



> Since I couldn't hear the "rear effect" very much I set the speaker distances to 4 times what they are in reality. To me this means that I should be able to hear it from 25 feet away in a 50'x50' room?


What is the real distance??? ...When you said four times the real distance, is that closer or far from where they are??? ...changing the distance will change the delay time not the loudness :yes:.



> The LFE subwoofer channel is a bit too subtle by itself. I need to cross over the bass frequencies from the fronts or the sides to add to the overall level, (set fronts or sides to small). This passes a ton of more bass to the LFE channel which sounds anemic on it's own. Oh, and I have most of the bass adjustments maxed out whenever possible.


I think this depends on a lot of things: 1) calibration of all speakers (use YPAO). 2) All speakers need to be set as small (except maybe the fronts). 3) LFE/Bass audio on the material; some DVD's don't have a lot of bass/LFE (specially cable/TV programs). 

You don't have to max out all settings, probably that's the reason you're experiencing the lack of sound; all speakers need to be properly calibrated to 75db (use YPAO and SPL meter) ...you'll see the difference :T


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## bluejay (Sep 10, 2007)

> Did you use YPAO to auto-calibrate the system??? ...Do you have an SPL meter???


Thank you for your response. I do not have a SPL meter and I don't think I'll be getting one. I did use the YPAO to auto calibrate the system a couple of times. It did a good job. All my speaker distances were auto selected properly. The test signal goes around to each speaker as it should. The resulting SPL's were calculated by the software properly. A decent enough sound resulted.

That being said, maybe I personally find it too bland. I need more bass, so I crank up all the bass. I want more side sound and rear sound, so I have them all cranked full. Whenever I get "too much" of something I can reduce it. Not that scientific but attempting to be "more pleasing"



> Fronts set to medium???


Yes medium SPL, halfway between full and minimum. 



> What brand/model speakers are you using???


For fronts I have 2 - JBL EON 15's - set large
For sides I have 2 - Cerwin Vega D9's - set small
For rears I have 2 - homebuilt with Hi Vi full range drivers - set large
Subwoofer - large ported cabinet, 18" Mach 5 driver, set to sub only

The rears do not sound that much different set either large or small so really I have used both quite a bit. 
The sides are set small to transfer their low frequency to the sub. It also prevents the woofer from fluttering at the low end
The fronts are set to large because
(a) they sound "fuller" and thus "better"
(b) I can switch the sub off easily at night when others have gone to bed. I am still left with enough bass to be pleasing, without having to dive in to the menu. 



> What other option do you have in the sat/receiver???


PCM stereo or mono



> If you set the player to PCM multichannel, You are letting the player decode the audio, Right??? ...What happens if you set it to Auto and let the AVR decode the audio???


This gets a little weird, can change a bit, I have used auto a lot but just recently changed. 
The player will decode "regular types of Dolby" and output via bitstream. Whenever it encounters a more advanced codec it auto outputs via PCM multi. This is all good until you play an older authored disk. I have caught a few outputting in stereo instead of Dolby. Forcing PCM multi will force multi from those disks too. 

This is all good until you consider I am enhancing back to stereo anyway.
You see with the disk player I am busy trying to get them to output the 1080p properly. I am at the 4th software upgrade for the player. Each one has changed something a bit, but I am never sure what. The player came unable to output 1080p / 24. Good by me cause my set doesn't support that anyway. Well they got it enabled but now I have to monkey around when changing formats. It can also change depending on what you were doing before, watching TV, listening to music, a fresh boot up. The HDMI handshake will change what you get too. So I go in to the player menu and change between 1080p 60 and 1080p 24. HD disks like it one way, regular DVD likes it the other way. This can change too depending on the software iteration. I remeber this changing 180 degrees after and upgrade. 

So the last thing I want to do is have to adjust the audio via menu. You have to turn a HD DVD off and restart from before the disk menu, (yukkk).



> changing the distance will change the delay time not the loudness .


I understand that, however, I can't say I tried all the buttons and settings unless I do, multiple times. I would be quite willing to put up with incorrect delay times if I could make it much louder. That is not how it works though. My real distances are 6, 7, or 8 feet depending on the speaker. I tried setting them to 20 feet or so and doubled up on the "actual effect level" in a few instances. I could hear to reverb more and would have left it on that way, except for my original question or problem;

1. I am trying to hear the rear speakers at other times than the test signal. If they are on low for 5 minutes out of 60 - then that is not enough for me. I do not have any room to move the side speakers behind us. I found a way to make the rear speakers sing - but it is a stereo mode. Short of driving them with their own amp and volume control I can't see any other way? But I don't want all that if they are off most of the time anyway. 

Believe me. I'm not the only one who would like to have their rear speakers blasting away. Like I said, I would rather "turn down" the effects when they get too strong.


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## bluejay (Sep 10, 2007)

> If you set the player to PCM multichannel, You are letting the player decode the audio, Right??? ...What happens if you set it to Auto and let the AVR decode the audio???


I have changed it back to Auto now. This lets everything decode in its native form whenever possible. 

Right now I am watching a Star Trek DVD. The Yamaha is decoding it in DTS, (that I chose in the disk setup to try DTS for one of my first times). The mode I am using is Spectacle. I have changed all the room size parameters back to default. Everything sounds pretty good. I have two silent rear speakers waiting for a technology boost I guess?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bluejay said:


> The mode I am using is Spectacle.


Personally I don't like any of the DSP on my AVR, I prefer to use Straight or Pure Direct :bigsmile:



> I have changed all the room size parameters back to default.


What do you mean "default"??? ...or do you mean the real/correct dimensions??? :huh:



> Everything sounds pretty good. I have two silent rear speakers waiting for a technology boost I guess?


:blink: ...Silent???...You get no sound at all??? :huh: (your AVR has to be able to play 7.1 from any source if is programmed correctly :yes


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## bluejay (Sep 10, 2007)

> What do you mean "default"??? ...or do you mean the real/correct dimensions???


In the parameters menu, the settings without an asterix


> Personally I don't like any of the DSP on my AVR, I prefer to use Straight or Pure Direct


I tend to agree. I have not tried Straight or Pure Direct very much yet. I have always reverted back to 7 channel enhanced before the film is done



> ...Silent???...You get no sound at all??? (your AVR has to be able to play 7.1 from any source if is programmed correctly )


I suppose that is where this thread started from. I don't hear much, if anything, with my face one foot away from the rears. I don't want to wait 5 minutes for something to happen. If all that comes out of it is some subtle reverb echo, its not really my thing. I would like to hear helicopters coming *"loud"* from behind my head, or *"loud"* bombs and ricochets going off. Please, make my rear speakers rattle so I will want to go out and get better ones. :hail:


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