# 1080 vs 720 worth the money?



## flipatkc

Hey guys,

Found this forum to be awesome. Lots of good advice. I'm finally ready to make my move for my HT. After hours, weeks, months of planning to the point that I've second guessed everything, I am now second guessing my projector choice. 

My question is this: Am I foolish to not spend the extra $400 to buy a 1080 projector vs a 720. It will stretch my budget but if its foolish not to do it then I will find a way. Optoma hd20 vs the optoma hd65. Price diff is about $400. ($999 vs $639)

I would be running blu ray dvd player through the projector. Is the difference worth $400?

Thanks a ton


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## Anthony

I think it is worth it, just for a future-proofing aspect. I moved and took my projector with me. It is now on a smaller screen (wall actually), so it didn't matter (Sanyo Z4, 720p). But if we had a chance to finish the basement, the screen would have been bigger and the 1080p would have been necessary to not see the pixel lines. That still may happen in the future, or a different room with a shorter seating distance may be used for the theater. In my case, I may end up too close to the screen for 720p and will wish I'd gotten the 1080p.

Welcome to the Shack!


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## tonyvdb

It also depends on your screen size, if you staying under 96" I dont really think that you will notice a difference between the two. But I agree with Anthony that 1080p is the way to go at this point. I have the same projector (Sanyo Z4) on a 96" screen and like it allot however if I do upgrade again it wont be anything less than a Sanyo PLV z70 or Panasonic AE3000 1080p projector.


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## lcaillo

I would say that at 96" most people could clearly see the difference, but it depends on the distance.


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## flipatkc

Screen size is going to be 106" 16:9 at about 13 foot distance...and thanks to all who have replied.


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## DougMac

flipatkc said:


> Screen size is going to be 106" 16:9 at about 13 foot distance...and thanks to all who have replied.


Welcome to the Shack, Philip!
I have the Optoma HD65. The HD20 was not available when I bought mine. I'm shooting it on a 120" screen and seating is 11' away.

I did a lot of reading and calculating before determining screen size. The projector had already been purchased, plus back then (things change fast), the 1080 i/p offerings were beyond my budget.

The 120" size I chose is right on the edge for 720p at my seating distance. With glasses, my vision corrects out to 20/15. In certain circumstances, if I try, I can see individual pixels. If I move only a few feet closer, pixels are obvious.

I think 720p for my situation is perfectly adequate. Since you'll be a little further away looking at a smaller screen, 720 should be fine. I've never done a side by side comparison, but from what I've read of people who have upgraded, the difference between 720 and 1080 is more incremental than startling.

Even after all I've said, I still would spend the extra money for the HD20 if at all possible. I'm thinking that gradations will be a little smoother and I just like the idea of watching BD in the native resolution. The only potential problem is upressing an SD DVD. I don't know if that extra jump degrades the image compared to 720. We use a PS3 as our player and it does a great job of upressing DVD's. A well mastered DVD can look really great.

Best of luck, I think you'll be pleased with either choice!

BTW my friends, even those with fairly large LCD TV's, can't get over the big projected image. We have a group that bribes us with dinner every month just for the chance to come watch a movie on the big screen!


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## chadnliz

DougMac said:


> Welcome to the Shack, Philip!
> I have the Optoma HD65. The HD20 was not available when I bought mine. I'm shooting it on a 120" screen and seating is 11' away.
> 
> I did a lot of reading and calculating before determining screen size. The projector had already been purchased, plus back then (things change fast), the 1080 i/p offerings were beyond my budget.
> 
> The 120" size I chose is right on the edge for 720p at my seating distance. With glasses, my vision corrects out to 20/15. In certain circumstances, if I try, I can see individual pixels. If I move only a few feet closer, pixels are obvious.
> 
> I think 720p for my situation is perfectly adequate. Since you'll be a little further away looking at a smaller screen, 720 should be fine. I've never done a side by side comparison, but from what I've read of people who have upgraded, the difference between 720 and 1080 is more incremental than startling.
> 
> Even after all I've said, I still would spend the extra money for the HD20 if at all possible. I'm thinking that gradations will be a little smoother and I just like the idea of watching BD in the native resolution. The only potential problem is upressing an SD DVD. I don't know if that extra jump degrades the image compared to 720. We use a PS3 as our player and it does a great job of upressing DVD's. A well mastered DVD can look really great.
> 
> Best of luck, I think you'll be pleased with either choice!
> 
> BTW my friends, even those with fairly large LCD TV's, can't get over the big projected image. We have a group that bribes us with dinner every month just for the chance to come watch a movie on the big screen!


I agree, I would go 1080p but if you cant your not going to suffer with 720p and dont think the difference is going to be night and day cause your gonna be let down if you think that. The quality of the player you use will also factor in, if you run it into a reciever or processor some will affect the signal in a postive way, some in a negative and some will simply pass the signal along.
So in close if 720p works for your budget you will love it, get 1080 if you can but dont sweat it. I bet if we did a test of folks looking at 720p vs 1080p in a blind format most would fail, even "experts" would likely surprise you as I would bet my Projector most would get it wrong. Cheers


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## Instal

I agree that the difference is incremental and not startling, however my advice is to stretch the budget to the limit and by the best pj you can. I consulted many a expert when I was buying a new laptop and the most common and seemingly good advice was to buy the best I could afford. The pj world doesn't change quite as quickly as computers but I think the advice is sound in both cases. If nothing else you will be able to go a bit longer before getting the upgrade itch and if you read this forum you will find that the itch happens faster than you think it wll!


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## chadnliz

Instal said:


> I agree that the difference is incremental and not startling, however my advice is to stretch the budget to the limit and by the best pj you can. I consulted many a expert when I was buying a new laptop and the most common and seemingly good advice was to buy the best I could afford. The pj world doesn't change quite as quickly as computers but I think the advice is sound in both cases. If nothing else you will be able to go a bit longer before getting the upgrade itch and if you read this forum you will find that the itch happens faster than you think it wll!


Thats why I would also think about a more hi end used unit..........that way somebody else took the hit for depreciation and you make your dollar really work for you! I just got a Sony Ruby that was $10,000 2 years ago for $750...........and it had under 200 hrs on it. You are likely gonna get the itch to upgrade like wisely noted above so buy used so you dont cry when its worth half what you paid for it!


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## tonyvdb

I think the one big difference between 720p and 1080p is that you get 1080p 24, It gives you a smoother film like image as it was meant to be seen.


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## lcaillo

flipatkc said:


> Screen size is going to be 106" 16:9 at about 13 foot distance...and thanks to all who have replied.


After hundreds of installations and calibrations of projectors, my experience is that at this distance I would b e very surprised if you did not see the benefits of the higher resolution on this size screen. As said before, it may not be a stunning difference, but as you watch for a while you will likely be able to clearly see the shortcomings of 720.


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## flipatkc

Doug,

my choice was made easy when I went to Best Buy last night and they had the HD65 on clearance for only $399. I couldnt turn it down at that price, especially for a starter projector. 

Since you have this projector I have one more question for you that is now coming to mind. I will be ceiling mounting this projector on an 8ft ceiling. My screen is a 16:9 and ideally I will have the viewing screen centered on my wall. If my projector is ceiling mounted say 4-6" from my ceiling is there going to be any issues with it angling downward to the screen which if centered on my wall will be potentially 1.5-2ft below the ceiling or does the projector need to be lined up with the top of the viewing screen?

*** well i just did some research and answered my own question above and it appears that with the HD65, the projector needs to be pretty much level with the top of the screen. So with a 16:9 screen aspect ratio, the screen will be hugging the ceiling if you have a short ceiling since your projector is going to pretty much be flush with the ceiling


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## DougMac

flipatkc said:


> Doug,
> 
> my choice was made easy when I went to Best Buy last night and they had the HD65 on clearance for only $399. I couldnt turn it down at that price, especially for a starter projector.
> 
> Since you have this projector I have one more question for you that is now coming to mind.
> 
> 
> *** well i just did some research and answered my own question above and it appears that with the HD65, the projector needs to be pretty much level with the top of the screen. So with a 16:9 screen aspect ratio, the screen will be hugging the ceiling if you have a short ceiling since your projector is going to pretty much be flush with the ceiling


Sorry to take so long to get back to you. I actually mis-remembered. I have the HD70.

You got a great price on the HD65! 

I did check the offset for the HD65 and it looks like you're about right. The offset for a 96" screen is only ~9". You should be fine. 

The big criticism of the HD70 is a much bigger offset compared to most projectors, including the HD65. It's not a big problem for me, I've got a 9 1/2 foot ceiling in my HT. I actually had to drop the projector around a foot. My projector mount screws onto standard 2" conduit.


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## lsiberian

flipatkc said:


> Doug,
> 
> my choice was made easy when I went to Best Buy last night and they had the HD65 on clearance for only $399. I couldnt turn it down at that price, especially for a starter projector.
> 
> Since you have this projector I have one more question for you that is now coming to mind. I will be ceiling mounting this projector on an 8ft ceiling. My screen is a 16:9 and ideally I will have the viewing screen centered on my wall. If my projector is ceiling mounted say 4-6" from my ceiling is there going to be any issues with it angling downward to the screen which if centered on my wall will be potentially 1.5-2ft below the ceiling or does the projector need to be lined up with the top of the viewing screen?
> 
> *** well i just did some research and answered my own question above and it appears that with the HD65, the projector needs to be pretty much level with the top of the screen. So with a 16:9 screen aspect ratio, the screen will be hugging the ceiling if you have a short ceiling since your projector is going to pretty much be flush with the ceiling



Well done! I was actually for you getting the 720p and saving the other money for down the line.


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## TwisterZ

Great price, way to find the deals. I was going to suggest going with the 720 and putting your budget into better speakers. Now that I have my theater as finished as any never ending upgrade project can be. I will upgrade to 1080 or 2K when I need a bulb for my Sony.


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## Matteo

In three months you will be wishing you had spent the extra $400 and wondering how much better your image could be with a 1080p. I think with speakers and projectors especially, you can get this "buyers" remorse or sense that it might just be a little better. 

But on a brighter note, the 720 would be great, and maybe there isn't much of a difference...
Maybe.:doh:
Matteo


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## robsong

I have the Pan ax200 720p FP and was looking at getting a 1080p FP. My main concern is PQ with Blu-ray and HDTV. Do you guys think there will be a big jump or small jump in PQ thanks. I was looking at the Mitsubishi hc6500 1080p FP.


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## Madhouse

HI, 

Im new here. i just wanted to share my experience.. 

a year and a hafl ago i bought a Benq w500, 720p .. I must say i thought it was very good at that time.. unfortunately it had some errors.. colors were 'cold' on one side and 'warm' on the other side og the picture. when i finally got a credit note i bought a w6000 .. and man.. what a differnce.. ofcourse the color and brightness helps, but would still say that going 1080p is the right way to do home theater..


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## robsong

Madhouse,
So to you the PQ from Benq w6000 is that much better. I found a great price on a Mit's HC6500 1080p FP.


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## robsong

Will guys I went ahead an got the Mit's hc6500 today from BB at a great price. Time to set-up this baby and see what she can do.


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## Madhouse

robsong said:


> Madhouse,
> So to you the PQ from Benq w6000 is that much better. I found a great price on a Mit's HC6500 1080p FP.


Yes.. compared to my the old Benq w500.. it may ot be a BIG difference resolution wise, but its still better.. 

the contrast and everything else i much better.. and it should be .. its 3x the price of my old one..


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## gsmollin

flipatkc said:


> Screen size is going to be 106" 16:9 at about 13 foot distance...and thanks to all who have replied.


At that distance, the difference between 720p and1080p will be visible on a 96 inch screen at 13 feet. The 1080p question hinges on angular resolution, not pixels across the screen. Even a 20 inch computer monitor can benefit from 1920x1080 resolution if you have your nose up to it trying to see a detail. At 13 feet back, screen size can be as much as 90 inches, and then you will see pixelation. So you already want the 1080p.


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## akan101

1080p projectors,for those who want the absolute best and most pristine picture quality, 1080p is the way to go. Not only do you get the highest resolution, but in many cases you get better contrast, black levels, and on-board video processing than is available in less pricey models. However, despite all of the enthusiasm surrounding the 1080p format, for many buyers on a budget the ideal solution is still the 720p projector.


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## tonyvdb

gsmollin said:


> At that distance, the difference between 720p and1080p will be visible on a 96 inch screen at 13 feet. The 1080p question hinges on angular resolution, not pixels across the screen. Even a 20 inch computer monitor can benefit from 1920x1080 resolution if you have your nose up to it trying to see a detail. At 13 feet back, screen size can be as much as 90 inches, and then you will see pixelation. So you already want the 1080p.


Hmmm, Not sure if I agree. The truth is the farther you sit away from a screen the less noticeable the difference between 720p and 1080p. I've got a 720p projector on a 96" screen sitting a distance of 12' for the front row and although the brightness could be a little better its still a fantastic picture. Just go and look at a big box stor with all sorts of displays displaying the same image. Ive seen many 720p displays that look just as good as the 1080p ones when viewing them from 15' back.


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## gsmollin

tonyvdb said:


> Hmmm, Not sure if I agree. The truth is the farther you sit away from a screen the less noticeable the difference between 720p and 1080p. I've got a 720p projector on a 96" screen sitting a distance of 12' for the front row and although the brightness could be a little better its still a fantastic picture. Just go and look at a big box stor with all sorts of displays displaying the same image. Ive seen many 720p displays that look just as good as the 1080p ones when viewing them from 15' back.


That's what I said. At 96" and 12 feet you are on the cusp of seeing pixelation. Try this test: Sit closer than 12 feet from your 96 inch screen and you can see pixelation, unless you have one of the Panasonic Pjs with "smooth screen" prisms, and then you are just seeing a blurry picture. If this isn't the case, then see your eye doctor.


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## lsiberian

gsmollin said:


> That's what I said. At 96" and 12 feet you are on the cusp of seeing pixelation. Try this test: Sit closer than 12 feet from your 96 inch screen and you can see pixelation, unless you have one of the Panasonic Pjs with "smooth screen" prisms, and then you are just seeing a blurry picture. If this isn't the case, then see your eye doctor.


Perhaps you can, but not everyone can. It is the source that decides the quality of the picture most. Put Casino Royale on any projector and it looks fantastic.


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## JBL Fan

> 1080 vs 720 worth the money?


Yes it is...


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## ohcello

In my opinion, it's all about viewing distance.... if you like to sit far away at all times (>2x screen width, etc), then get the 720. However, most viewers site closer than that.... I had a 92" screen and sat about 11 feet away (1.65x screen width) and I could see a big difference with qualityh 1080i / 1080p content.

I now have a 114" screen and can still site 11" away becuase I have a 1080p projector... so the 1080p projector lets you sit closer and still have a 'seamless' viewing experience (with quality content)


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## robsong

Will I replaced my Panasonic ax200u with Mitsubishi HC6500 awhile back. My sitting distance is about 11' from 110" and I'm enjoy this new FP a lot. To me was it worth the upgrade yes to others maybe not. But at the end of the day it's my toy and I'm liking it a lot. :heehee:


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## Josuah

I go with "sit 1 foot away for every 10" of screen diagonal", when using 1080p. Which matches your setup.


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## MixxMaster

Now the price differences are minor, so it would be foolish not to go with 1080. The real big step to consider now is 3D or not!


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## robsong

Josuah,
Were are you located in san jose.


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## zarkdav

I have been living in the 720p for more than 3 years. My Mitsubishi HC1100 broke down recently out of warranty, so I am considering buying a new projector.

To my eyes, 720p has never really been a huge issue. I project on a 110" screen, and when the movie is interesting I really don't care about the resolution. I also have a 1080p TV and to be honest, size is more important to me than resolution, to the point that since the projector broke down I can't watch any movie without feeling frustrated.

So of course, budget being limited, I'm looking at various possibilities. What I am trying to find is if there are any 720p projectors which share similar electronics improvements as their 1080p conterpart. If all 720p projectors are vastly inferior to the 1080p projectors on everything and not only their resolution, then I will have to consider 1080p in my budget.

If not, which 720p would you recommend? My budget is about the price of an HC3800 right now. It will be connected to an Onkyo PR-SC886, so scaling should not be an issue, should it?


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## gsmollin

Panasonic makes a well-received 720p unit. All the reputable brands are using the new inorganic LCD panels. DLP units are also new with TI Darkchip 2 designs. P


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## ironglen

You might have a look at optoma 720p projector- around $600, with darkchip 2/3. If your seating is on the farther side of the spectrum (see a viewing chart), a 720p is fine, other factors as ambient light, settings will affect the picture considerably. I'm using a picture calibration disk right now to get my 720p picture the best I can. If your seating is closer (or picture enormous) save up for a 1080p.


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## Andre

Bah...viewing charts. I watch a 70inch Samy DLP at 8 feet


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## ironglen

Andre said:


> Bah...viewing charts. I watch a 70inch Samy DLP at 8 feet


For $600? :heehee: That MUST be awesome.

But I was referring to a close seating position with 720p, which I have for both my tv and projector. On both sources at 8ft pixelation is evident, at 15ft its pristine. I have a 50" and 92", respectively.


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## gmichael

MixxMaster said:


> Now the price differences are minor, so it would be foolish not to go with 1080. The real big step to consider now is 3D or not!


I would go 1080p, but don't really care about 3D at this point.


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## zarkdav

OK, seems that, in the 720p league, it would be a choice between the PT-AX200 (800€) or the Optoma HD67 (700€).

I'll have to try and find a shop that carries both and the HD20 (and other 1080p in the same price range) to see for myself.


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## mandtra

I know this thread is pretty much dead and old , but I will try anyway. Is it better to get a higher quality 720 , than a cheaper 1080? From what i have been reading about some of the $1000 range 1080p projectors out there , some have suggested I spend that thousand on a higher quality 720p. Commenting that , projectors are not created equal. and the listed specs often are misleading or simply just not true ????
What do you think?


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## gsmollin

I think that you need to compare PJ against each other on their merits, at each price point. So compare all $1k PJ against each other, regardless of resolution. 720p vs 1080p is just another spec, no more important than the contrast specs, and the optical quality, and maybe less. So depending upon your needs, a 720p may well be much better than a 1080p. 

There is a mystic that 1080p is a special thing, but its only marginally better than 720p, in resolution only. On the other hand, there has been such a rush to 1080p, because there are better profit margins, so that your 720p market is very small. That may be the worst detriment of 720p.


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## robsong

After upgrading from my Panasonic ax200u 720p to Mitsubishi HC6500 1080p I'm a very happy camper.


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