# Good Bye and Good Luck!



## mechman

Greetings everyone!

I just thought I'd post a note letting everyone know that I am stepping down as Admin of HTS at the end of this month. Over the years I've gotten to know many of you on the forums and have become quite close with several of you. It is with a sad heart that I say good bye and move on from HTS.

Sonnie Parker built HTS as one of the best home theater sites on the internet without all the junk that you find at other sites. And I think he accomplished that in spades. Since Sonnie sold the site, the vigor that was once here has faded despite the pleas of many for help from our current owner. I cannot sit and watch as HTS is allowed to wither on the vine!

I will still check in from time to time but I look forward to starting new elsewhere. Thank you for putting up with me all these years and I'll see you around!

Steve Mechelke
mech

PS If you want to get in touch with me, just shoot me a pm!


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## Talley

Who is taking over?


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## tonyvdb

Oh no!!

Steve, you have been a vital part of the HTS and you will be missed in the capacity you have held for a long time. Your help with many discussions Ive been involved in has always been great.

Thank you and all the best in your new direction.

Tony


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## mechman

Talley said:


> Who is taking over?


To be honest, I don't think they need anyone new. What used to take an hour or so under Sonnie now takes a few minutes a week with the reduced traffic.


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## mechman

tonyvdb said:


> Oh no!!
> 
> Steve, you have been a vital part of the HTS and you will be missed in the capacity you have held for a long time. Your help with many discussions Ive been involved in has always been great.
> 
> Thank you and all the best in your new direction.
> 
> Tony


Tony - you are one of the good guys! I will miss you!


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## Robert Zohn

mech, I have so thoroughly enjoyed working with you so this is a sad day for me and everyone at HTS. 

I hope you stay on as an active member. 

All our best and happy Thanksgiving!!

-Robert


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## willis7469

Yes indeed. What Sonnie created and maintained for all those years was truly unique in this day in age. You have been instrumental in keeping it that way. Good luck to you. Maybe I'll see you up nort!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## lcaillo

mechman said:


> Greetings everyone!
> 
> I just thought I'd post a note letting everyone know that I am stepping down as Admin of HTS at the end of this month. Over the years I've gotten to know many of you on the forums and have become quite close with several of you. It is with a sad heart that I say good bye and move on from HTS.
> 
> Sonnie Parker built HTS as one of the best home theater sites on the internet without all the junk that you find at other sites. And I think he accomplished that in spades. Since Sonnie sold the site, the vigor that was once here has faded despite the pleas of many for help from our current owner. I cannot sit and watch as HTS is allowed to wither on the vine!
> 
> I will still check in from time to time but I look forward to starting new elsewhere. Thank you for putting up with me all these years and I'll see you around!
> 
> Steve Mechelke
> mech
> 
> PS If you want to get in touch with me, just shoot me a pm!


Wow! What a loss for us, but I understand and share your concerns for the direction of the forum. I am not quite ready to give up on it yet, but we are going to have to get some support from VerticalScope to build it back up to the exciting community that it was.

I have made a request to our staff to give some real thought to what it will take to revitalize HTS and made some suggestions myself. As the most senior of the remaining staff, I feel some responsibility to make an effort to get back what has been lost. I hope you will weigh in on what you think it will take before you go.

Be well and be in touch, my friend!


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## NBPk402

Sorry to see you leave, Steve. I really hope that this is not the beginning of mass exodus. I do believe that the site was much better before Sonnie sold it, and I hope it can once again be like it was before. I hope you stick around as a member as you are a great asset to the site, and a wonderful person to chat with.


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## Talley

mechman said:


> To be honest, I don't think they need anyone new. What used to take an hour or so under Sonnie now takes a few minutes a week with the reduced traffic.


This site is very very slow compared to most other sites I visit which surprises me that some of the giveaways have been given... the speaker giveaway last year was crazy and there was only a handful of people in the running for it.

I still prefer this site structure over others... others are super busy but oh well.


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## Tonto

Mech, you are making me sad. I feel your pain as I see the site fading as well. I have always apprecitated your contributions to the forum. You have been an invaluable aid to many shacksters. I hope you continue to frequent the site as I'm sure I will need your advice as my room nears completion! God bless you in your new indeavors!. You will be missed.


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## Lumen

Can't say it better than the others have. We are genuinely sad to see you go, but also know that wherever you end up, it will be a better place because you're there. We have a deteriorating situation here for sure. Maybe we can turn it around. Maybe not. But we certainly don't blame you for seeking greener pastures. Good luck and God bless.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## tcarcio

Well Steve I know you have to do what you think is best but you will be missed and I want to say thank you for all you have done for all of us here at the Shack. :clap: I hope you will remain here as a member and still share with us from time to time. Thanks again and have a great holiday season. TC.


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## Savjac

You have provided many excellent guides and thoughts on our hobby. You will be Greatly missed. Keep on the green side and I am positive you will be a huge addition to any site you move on to. Be Well


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## SelenaJay

Thank you very much for sharing your experience.
I think, it is very helpful.:wave:


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## FargateOne

Talley said:


> This site is very very slow compared to most other sites I visit which surprises me that some of the giveaways have been given... the speaker giveaway last year was crazy and there was only a handful of people in the running for it.
> 
> I still prefer this site structure over others... others are super busy but oh well.


Totally agree: T


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## JBrax

This is both sad and troubling news. While still a good site it's obvious that traffic is down. Hearing Leonard voice concerns is also a definite red flag to me of things going on behind the scenes. I'd love to hear the moderators opinions as to what has caused this and their ideas of what's needed to improve things. Sonnie's daily presence is definitely missed as well as Joe's (ALMFam) Jack (JungleJack) and others. Anybody know where they went?


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## tonyvdb

I know both Joe and Jack left for similar reasons and I do miss there presence. I did call Jack a couple times after he left and he is enjoying his life away from the forums and Joe is busy with his family and such.


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## willis7469

tonyvdb said:


> I know both Joe and Jack left for similar reasons and I do miss there presence. I did call Jack a couple times after he left and he is enjoying his life away from the forums and Joe is busy with his family and such.



I was wondering if Joe was on deployment. 


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## JBrax

tonyvdb said:


> I know both Joe and Jack left for similar reasons and I do miss there presence. I did call Jack a couple times after he left and he is enjoying his life away from the forums and Joe is busy with his family and such.


 Thanks for the info Tony. I wish they would drop in and say hello on occasion.


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## nova

Sorry to see you go Steve, but I certainly understand why.


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## Peter Loeser

Thanks for your invaluable contributions to the HTS community Steve! You will certainly be missed here. I hope to keep in touch one way or another. I wish you success in future endeavors!


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## theJman

ellisr63 said:


> Sorry to see you leave, Steve. I really hope that this is not the beginning of mass exodus. I do believe that the site was much better before Sonnie sold it, and I hope it can once again be like it was before. I hope you stick around as a member as you are a great asset to the site, and a wonderful person to chat with.


Steve is the beginning of the exodus I'm afraid. Those of us who constitute the remaining staff are all considering other options.




JBrax said:


> This is both sad and troubling news. While still a good site it's obvious that traffic is down. Hearing Leonard voice concerns is also a definite red flag to me of things going on behind the scenes. I'd love to hear the moderators opinions as to what has caused this and their ideas of what's needed to improve things. Sonnie's daily presence is definitely missed as well as Joe's (ALMFam) Jack (JungleJack) and others. Anybody know where they went?


_"the devil that you know is probably better than the devil you don't know"_ is something I've heard more than once in my life. It essentially means 'the grass is not always greener on the other side', and in this case that proved to be prescience.


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## hyghwayman

Steve you will truly be missed by all of us here at HTS and I agree this place just ain't been the same since Sonny moved on as well as the others after him. 

Best wishes in the future,
Hyghwayman


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## fschris

I am not sure whats going on behind the scenes ...but its interesting to see what happens when a company is sold to a larger conglomerate. A lot of the economy seems to be moving into a more aggressive version of this. It has been going on a long time but there is an explosion of MBA's graduating at for profit and non profit colleges. These MBA's are being hired to squeeze profits to satisfy the 90 day quarter. Public companies are now run on a 90 day vision to satisfy wall street. The shortsightedness of profits over everything else is very discouraging. I have no idea what is going on at HTS but you can see over at AVS the improvements being made. They have totally upgraded the website, Love him or hate him Scott W is reporting from major events and has a podcast. The articles are showcasing new technologies from first hand experience. AVS has a new more mainstream look to handle tablets better for one thing. I wonder why that has not happened here ? Is the parent company of HTS investing in this website ? I don't see it and I guess that as more of the senior people leave so will the soul of HTS. I am not an expert on the 'economies' of websites such as AVS or HTS however there must be leadership from the owners for anything to be successful. However I have no idea what the vision 'vertical scope' has for its products. Read about VS here: http://www.verticalscope.com/


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## mechman

HTS and AVS are owned by the same company. One site gets attention and the other does not. One site used to average a million plus hits a day and now is down to 10,000 and the company says "all is well". One site used to average 100+ new users a day and now is down to an average of maybe 5 a day and the company says "all is well".

The company is Vertical Scope and they are a cancer that is spreading among forums everywhere. Can you guess which site is neglected?


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## lcaillo

The picture that Steve paints is in many ways accurate, but some of the numbers are not quite that extreme. Compared to a year ago, we have roughly half as many visits by users and half as many new threads. All of the numbers made a startling drop after April of this year and continue to get worse. 

The biggest and most startling statistic to me is the drop in registrations of new members. As you can see below, it is a small fraction of what it was. The most concerning for the business of the forum is the flight of sponsors, a quarter of what we once had. We are in discussion with Vertical Scope and have made some suggestions about what might be done to revitalize the forum. We'll see what kind of response we get. To date, none of the concerns seem to have been taken seriously.

The loss of several of our most knowledgeable and active staff is also a serious concern. When guys like Steve become disollusioned and leave, there are some serious leadership problems. The rest of us are making an honest effort to work with Vertical Scope to get some growth an interest back, but frankly, based on the responses to date, I am not optimistic.


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## lcaillo

Ooops...forgot the attachment with the registration statistics.


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## theJman

fschris said:


> I am not sure whats going on behind the scenes ...but its interesting to see what happens when a company is sold to a larger conglomerate.


"interesting" is not the word I would use, and I imagine the rest of the remaining staff would choose something else too. 

Bottom line is it's terribly unfortunate what hasn't happened here at HTS, especially when you consider what _has_ happened with AVS; investment and active management. As you noted AVS has benefited from a very obvious investment in not only the site itself but the people working there. HTS has not gotten either. There's a ton more to the story, but I won't go into it here. Bottom line is HTS is on life support, propped up by the staff we have left. Something needs to change soon or the site will no longer exist. Shame too because it is a unique place.


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## lcaillo

If the current owners don't come through with some real action than get things going, the current staff won't be able to do much.


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## tonyvdb

I think what is becoming more concerning is the lack of response in this thread or on the form from The owner about this? Clearly AVS is being given the attention, something that I find sad because HTS has a much better handle on rude and simply argent members. It's not tolerated here where AVS it runs amuck and still to this day I won't go there. I have no idea what I'm going to do if HTS disappears.


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## fschris

wow I had no idea VS owned AVS as well.


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## JBrax

tonyvdb said:


> I think what is becoming more concerning is the lack of response in this thread or on the form from The owner about this? Clearly AVS is being given the attention, something that I find sad because HTS has a much better handle on rude and simply argent members. It's not tolerated here where AVS it runs amuck and still to this day I won't go there. I have no idea what I'm going to do if HTS disappears.


 I agree, once upon a time HTS was a forum I checked countless times daily. Any more the traffic has slowed to the point I can refresh the app and nothing has changed after many hours. Very disappointing and sad.


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## chashint

Once upon a time AVS was my preferred home theater destination but over time HTS won me over to the point I seldom visited anywhere else.
Over the past few months I have been giving AVS a visit once in a while and since this thread started I have given it a full blown look over.
The wrapper on that site is much improved but it is still the same underneath.
Forums are mostly driven by new members asking for help and the forum there certainly has many more new posts than here.
That may be a function of Google since most people researching purchases or needing help start the search initially there.
I do not know what it takes on the business end to make a website like this work.
I suspect sponsors have to be courted and "intimate " contact maintained throughout the contract vs just at renewal time.
I don't know if the staff here is paid or if the work is the labor of love but in any case running any website takes a lot of time and effort and ownership has to be engaged.
I really enjoy HTS and I hope the owners will take an interest in growing it along with AVS.
The two successfully coexisted for a long time with each uniquely serving the audio and home theater community.


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## Todd Anderson

Thanks for voicing support for HTS, trust me when I say that the Staff realizes what an important destination HTS has been - on many different levels - for so many you (and us!). We are trying our best to work with ownership to keep the site moving forward and, of course, we want to see an uptick in traffic. Many of the members commenting in this thread are the bedrock of this community - and all of you found HTS for the same reason. The uniqueness of the HTS environment can't be understated. I, for one, am grateful for your continued involvement in the community. Really appreciate it -- if you have suggestions for site, content, etc, please shoot me a PM.


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## FargateOne

tonyvdb said:


> I think what is becoming more concerning is the lack of response in this thread or on the form from The owner about this? Clearly AVS is being given the attention, something that I find sad because HTS has a much better handle on rude and simply argent members. It's not tolerated here where AVS it runs amuck and still to this day I won't go there. I have no idea what I'm going to do if HTS disappears.


All the reason why I preferred here


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## mechman

tonyvdb said:


> I think what is becoming more concerning is the lack of response in this thread or on the form from The owner about this? Clearly AVS is being given the attention, something that I find sad because HTS has a much better handle on rude and simply argent members. It's not tolerated here where AVS it runs amuck and still to this day I won't go there. I have no idea what I'm going to do if HTS disappears.


I guess we may have to start anew then, won't we? :bigsmile: Took a long time to get this place to where it's at now. With the right people, we may be able to do it in half the time.


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## tonyvdb

mechman said:


> I guess we may have to start anew then, won't we? :bigsmile: Took a long time to get this place to where it's at now. With the right people, we may be able to do it in half the time.


I'll be there if that does take place.


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## asere

Sad to hear this mechman. I have been on this forum for years already and have always enjoyed the clean threads compared to other forums that are at times rude. I'm a member of Avs, high def junkies and I must say there is none like this one but I have seen a decline with responses here and many sponsors have left. I hope HTS can once again be like when Sonnie owned it. I have great memories here from people that have helped and it's like family. It saddens me just thinking that HTS could one day just disappear.


Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## gtpsuper24

tonyvdb said:


> I think what is becoming more concerning is the lack of response in this thread or on the form from The owner about this? Clearly AVS is being given the attention, something that I find sad because HTS has a much better handle on rude and simply argent members. It's not tolerated here where AVS it runs amuck and still to this day I won't go there. I have no idea what I'm going to do if HTS disappears.


AVS is not that bad. Some stuff that manufacturers try to get away with doesn't fly on AVS. Here it seems things have to be polite and nice or posts get edited by moderators or deleted all together. 

Seems no negatives about products are allowed on HTS, no discussion of cutting corners on Xovers or cabinets or price to performance ratio. 

Reason AVS is doing so much better than HTS is much more freedom in the discussions. Any negative opinions about a product say a company skipping out on cabinet bracing or odd ball driver layouts or trying to pass off cheap Chinese products off as their own brand, is label as being rude and severely edited by the moderators here so not to offend anyone. 

Just my view on things.


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## JBrax

gtpsuper24 said:


> AVS is not that bad. Some stuff that manufacturers try to get away with doesn't fly on AVS. Here it seems things have to be polite and nice or posts get edited by moderators or deleted all together. Seems no negatives about products are allowed on HTS, no discussion of cutting corners on Xovers or cabinets or price to performance ratio. Reason AVS is doing so much better than HTS is much more freedom in the discussions. Any negative opinions about a product say a company skipping out on cabinet bracing or odd ball driver layouts or trying to pass off cheap Chinese products off as their own brand, is label as being rude and severely edited by the moderators here so not to offend anyone. Just my view on things.


 HTS was doing just fine when Sonnie owned it.


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## Savjac

Yes indeed, Sonnie even kept me in check and I do miss that. If allowed I will follow wherever y'all go. It really is wonderful here, ideas are exchanged and fellowship is strong here. That is not easy to find elsewhere and it would be sorely missed if this site continues to degrade. I hope there is a fix in the works.:yes:


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## theJman

gtpsuper24 said:


> AVS is not that bad. Some stuff that manufacturers try to get away with doesn't fly on AVS. Here it seems things have to be polite and nice or posts get edited by moderators or deleted all together.
> 
> Seems no negatives about products are allowed on HTS, no discussion of cutting corners on Xovers or cabinets or price to performance ratio.
> 
> Reason AVS is doing so much better than HTS is much more freedom in the discussions. Any negative opinions about a product say a company skipping out on cabinet bracing or odd ball driver layouts or trying to pass off cheap Chinese products off as their own brand, is label as being rude and severely edited by the moderators here so not to offend anyone.
> 
> Just my view on things.


To be honest, the language rules are a bit more restrictive than I feel are necessary. Some leeway in that regard is probably warranted. But as far as redacted posts or not being able to say what you want? That I don't see I'm afraid. _How_ something is said can run afoul of the rules, but what's being said causing moderator intervention is up for debate. I'm a perfect example of that.

Far and away the most viewed and accessed posts are the ones that get featured on the homepage. That means reviews, articles, show coverage, etc. It stands to reason if anything is going to be filtered it would be the posts which get the most eyes. My sole condition before agreeing to do exclusive reviews for HTS was that no one could tell me what I wrote; I would say what I wanted to and how I wanted to (within the language rules, of course). Sonnie had no problem with that, and I can honestly state that even after publishing a few dozen reviews here I have _never_ been asked to change a single word on anything I've posted. That includes having some less than flattering comments about a 5.1 system HTS was giving away in a contest, yet not a peep from anybody about changing my assessment or wording. I'd almost bet my right arm that the other writers would tell you the same thing.

I suspect what makes the difference between AVS and HTS so obvious is the stark difference in how they're run; one is very loose while the other is a little too tight, so they are diametrically opposed from that standpoint. In the end it's all about personal choice though, so mine is nothing more than an opinion as well. The sad part is the ability for people to have that choice is probably drawing to a close.


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## gtpsuper24

theJman said:


> To be honest, the language rules are a bit more restrictive than I feel are necessary. Some leeway in that regard is probably warranted. But as far as redacted posts or not being able to say what you want? That I don't see I'm afraid. _How_ something is said can run afoul of the rules, but what's being said causing moderator intervention is up for debate. I'm a perfect example of that.


Your articles are great and I usually make sure I read them in full. The rules here I think are so restrictive that I think most just don't even bother with the site. Which is why the traffic is so low. Its never been as strong as AVS. I've had my posts edited and reposted as to not offend owners of certain brands. So they edited my post to reflect what they want. Some want to see bother sides of the story and not be painted a strict rosey picture of a product. 

I say get read of the forums and have it be a Review site like Soundstage or Audioholics.

Even when Sonnie owned it, it still never generated the strong viewer ship of AVS and the Prize giveaways reflect that.


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## tonyvdb

gtpsuper24 said:


> I say get read of the forums and have it be a Review site like Soundstage or Audioholics.


No way, the form is what make the HTS what it is.



> Even when Sonnie owned it, it still never generated the strong viewer ship of AVS and the Prize giveaways reflect that.


I dont agree, the contests had good strong rules in order to qualify and that made it hard for those who just posted a bunch of fluff and then never come back. The point of the giveaways was to reward members who made a difference here. 
Traffic flow here was good for a long time (Ive been a member almost since it stared) its only the last year where its gotten slower and really bad over the last couple months.


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## theJman

gtpsuper24 said:


> The rules here I think are so restrictive that I think most just don't even bother with the site. Which is why the traffic is so low. Its never been as strong as AVS.


Some have indeed been turned off by the 'iron fist' (as it were) that prevails at HTS. The converse is true of AVS though; some have been turned off by the free-for-all mentality of that site. Either way, it's hard to dispute the fact AVS is a very active place. From a revenue generation standpoint it would be difficult to ignore that. There was a good stream of revenue here as well.




gtpsuper24 said:


> Even when Sonnie owned it, it still never generated the strong viewer ship of AVS and the Prize giveaways reflect that.


AVS is quite possibly the largest of the HT-based sites, and that may even be from a global standpoint. But HTS definitely had it's place, and a very loyal fan base as well. While not as large as AVS it was still relevant. It's akin to Toyota in the fullsize truck market; small compared to the likes of Ford, but certainly viable and solid enough to stand on its own. Until it was sold unfortunately, then the bottom fell out. It was as though someone flipped a light switch and the room instantly went dark - it was pretty much that sudden.


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## gtpsuper24

theJman said:


> Some have indeed been turned off by the 'iron fist' (as it were) that prevails at HTS. The converse is true of AVS though; some have been turned off by the free-for-all mentality of that site. Either way, it's hard to dispute the fact AVS is a very active place. From a revenue generation standpoint it would be difficult to ignore that. There was a good stream of revenue here as well.


Some that are turned off by that environment are the ones who have bought into what a company sells them. And some of the members over there call companies out on some of their sales tactics. Well said people who are turned off by a "free for all mentality" usually bring up the personal attacks because they don't like the "bashing" that their favorite brand receives. Usually just about every brand has been in the crosshairs although some more than others. 

Like there can be no discussion on why its bad a center uses a odd tweeter layout. It will get edited here so not to offend any posters that own that product. AVS its free to call it out as a bad design with measurements and actual facts. Those that own that product then feel AVS is a horrid place full of hateful people. 

Brand A is say $2500 for a tower that uses basic vinyl finish and very little cabinet bracing and basic cheap part xover design. While Brand B uses High gloss finishes as standard, heavy solid cabinets and high quality xover parts and it sells for $1700 a pair. AVS that stuff gets called out on and no recommended. Here you need to tip toe around as to no offend anyone or have you thread entirely edited with a stern PM stating the rules and receiving a warning. 

These are a few reasons many have said good bye to HTS and one day it will be a broken link.


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## mechman

tonyvdb said:


> Traffic flow here was good for a long time (Ive been a member almost since it stared) its only the last year where its gotten slower and really bad over the last couple months.


Exactly. We were slowly creeping up on AVS traffic count-wise. For instance, there were always more people viewing certain forums here than at AVS - projection screens always had double or more viewing than AVS. If we still had a responsible owner, we'd be even closer today instead of dropping off the map.


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## tesseract

I have never been sanctioned at any forum I have participated in... except for AVS.

I have had posts deleted simply for supporting a manufacturer that was on the bad side of their administration. They had (have) a personal vendetta against that company and I got caught in the cross fire. PMs are read by admin there, I've had a few of those deleted. Read my last post there for more info, provided that thread did not disappear completely, like many before it have. I have not posted there since, because of the heavy bias and invasion of privacy AVS has levied against myself and quite a few others.

Saying that one has freedom of speech at AVS is untrue. Saying they do not play favorites with manufacturers is untrue.

Conversely, anyone that has a problem with HTS moderation might want to look at how they have worded their posts. If you are abrasive, yes, we will take the edges off. If you want your message to get though, adjust your posting style. You can say almost anything you like here if you use tact.

There is a big difference between posting information with tact and posting attacks with little regard to forum rules.


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## lcaillo

gtpsuper24 said:


> AVS is not that bad. Some stuff that manufacturers try to get away with doesn't fly on AVS. Here it seems things have to be polite and nice or posts get edited by moderators or deleted all together.
> 
> Seems no negatives about products are allowed on HTS, no discussion of cutting corners on Xovers or cabinets or price to performance ratio.
> 
> Reason AVS is doing so much better than HTS is much more freedom in the discussions. Any negative opinions about a product say a company skipping out on cabinet bracing or odd ball driver layouts or trying to pass off cheap Chinese products off as their own brand, is label as being rude and severely edited by the moderators here so not to offend anyone.
> 
> Just my view on things.


There is complete freedom of discussion here with respect to what ideas people can express. Where we set limits is on HOW people express those ideas. We hold a higher bar where everyone's ideas are welcome AS LONG AS THE IDEAS ARE EXPRESSED WITH RESPECT FOR OTHERS and without profanity. Many times, other forums have censored IDEAS because they are inconsistent with the moderators or the current thoughts of the trend in the forum. We actually protect the ability to hold ideas that differ from the trend. So the notion of wide open posting may work for other forums, and may even mean more volume, but it is not why we are here. It is actually the reason that many of us left other forums and found a home here. 

If one does not appreciate that, and expects that we should be like every other forum, I would ask why are you here. There are lots of places where you can get that.


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## lcaillo

gtpsuper24 said:


> Some that are turned off by that environment are the ones who have bought into what a company sells them. And some of the members over there call companies out on some of their sales tactics. Well said people who are turned off by a "free for all mentality" usually bring up the personal attacks because they don't like the "bashing" that their favorite brand receives. Usually just about every brand has been in the crosshairs although some more than others.
> 
> Like there can be no discussion on why its bad a center uses a odd tweeter layout. It will get edited here so not to offend any posters that own that product. AVS its free to call it out as a bad design with measurements and actual facts. Those that own that product then feel AVS is a horrid place full of hateful people.
> 
> Brand A is say $2500 for a tower that uses basic vinyl finish and very little cabinet bracing and basic cheap part xover design. While Brand B uses High gloss finishes as standard, heavy solid cabinets and high quality xover parts and it sells for $1700 a pair. AVS that stuff gets called out on and no recommended. Here you need to tip toe around as to no offend anyone or have you thread entirely edited with a stern PM stating the rules and receiving a warning.
> 
> These are a few reasons many have said good bye to HTS and one day it will be a broken link.


Simply not true. We do not edit whether someone has an opinion that something is bad or good. What we restrict is bashing a manufacturer unfairly or claiming that opinions are fact, or attacking individuals rather than debating ideas. We ABSOLUTELY do not have an issue with the opinion or the idea, just with how one approaches others.

Perhaps we have not been clear enough about the differences between ideas about products and how we treat others, and about how opinions are ok but selling them as facts is NOT ok.

This discussion is important because it gets to what is different about how we discuss things compared to how others conduct themselves. If people don't value that difference, then frankly, there is not much reason for HTS to exist.


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## lcaillo

tesseract said:


> I have never been sanctioned at any forum I have participated in... except for AVS.
> 
> I have had posts deleted simply for supporting a manufacturer that was on the bad side of their administration. They had (have) a personal vendetta against that company and I got caught in the cross fire. PMs are read by admin there, I've had a few of those deleted. Read my last post there for more info, provided that thread did not disappear completely, like many before it have. I have not posted there since, because of the heavy bias and invasion of privacy AVS has levied against myself and quite a few others.
> 
> Saying that one has freedom of speech at AVS is untrue. Saying they do not play favorites with manufacturers is untrue.
> 
> Conversely, anyone that has a problem with HTS moderation might want to look at how they have worded their posts. If you are abrasive, yes, we will take the edges off. If you want your message to get though, adjust your posting style. You can say almost anything you like here if you use tact.
> 
> There is a big difference between posting information with tact and posting attacks with little regard to forum rules.


Yep. This is why many of us ended up here and don't bother with other forums.


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## bkeeler10

Just found this thread. It did seem to me that traffic was down around here, but I didn't realize that it was to such a great extent. It makes me sad. I really enjoy this site and appreciate the approach that has been taken with regard to respect and language and such.

I have seen big, national companies take over smaller, more local companies on several occasions, including a company my father started and worked with for a very long time. The tendency seems to be for management to take over and implement their own ideas and policies without bothering to understand what made the company successful in the past. They frequently drive their acquisitions into the ground by abandoning the ideas, people and practices that drove the company's success. As was the case with my father's company. If these larger conglomerates want to be successful in acquiring other companies, they should be keeping as many staff on hand as possible, and they should be listening to what those people say instead of assuming that their knowledge and education and experience trump the years of success the company had prior. One presumes that the larger company bought the smaller one because it was a successful, profitable venture. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. :rant:

I bet this site is worth less on the open market than it was when Sonnie sold it. He should just buy it back and consider the difference money in his pocket -- but perhaps he is in a situation now that does not allow him to manage it the way he did before. It's a shame really - he was really great and I think had a way with people. He's probably the main reason that the site had so many sponsors.

Anyway, I will hang around as long as this site does, and I hope it doesn't fold. Although I do read more on "that other forum" due mostly to sheer volume, I post more here and enjoy the interaction with members here. Thank you all for your efforts to get through to the VS guys and revitalize this forum.


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## theJman

bkeeler10 said:


> I bet this site is worth less on the open market than it was when Sonnie sold it. He should just buy it back and consider the difference money in his pocket


Now there's a good idea. :T



bkeeler10 said:


> Thank you all for your efforts to get through to the VS guys and revitalize this forum.


Perhaps the most telling aspect is VS hasn't posted anything, here or in the private area. You begin to wonder if they even log in anymore.


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## asere

No offence to VS but when Sonnie owned this forum it was more like a mom and pop place. Now it's more commercialized. People see and feel the change and therefore traffic goes down.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk


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## willis7469

theJman said:


> Perhaps the most telling aspect is VS hasn't posted anything, here or in the private area. You begin to wonder if they even log in anymore.


the only time I've seen them is to accommodate the occasional "delete user account" request. I hope sonnie was compensated well, but I wonder why VS even bought it. 

Edit: I was trying to quote Jim. Kinda chopped it up. 
Edit 2: All better now.


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## Todd Anderson

VS is in communication - they are aware of concerns and are looking for remedies. Hang in there, guys. Hopefully we'll have some good news heading into the new year.


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## JBrax

Todd Anderson said:


> VS is in communication - they are aware of concerns and are looking for remedies. Hang in there, guys. Hopefully we'll have some good news heading into the new year.


 Sounds encouraging Todd. Step up VS!


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## Tonto

Well it may not be the best advice, but I suggest discussing it with Sonnie first. He still is an administrator so he shouldn't have a problem offing advice to VS. Just a suggestion from a simple country boy livin in a city!:whistling:


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## phillihp23

Will miss you Mechman, it was you and others to include the Great Sonnie who provided me all the knowledge and great advice which resulted in my Home theater build.
It is true that the site has waned away....since the Great ones departure. I used to log on 6-7 times a day to read articles and to respond back to others questions. I enjoyed it and it felt like a great place to be. Now days I am lucky if i log in once a month....muddle around a few seconds and log out...


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## Todd Anderson

Hey Folks - site changes are in the works, hang in there!


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## JBrax

Todd Anderson said:


> Hey Folks - site changes are in the works, hang in there!


 Ohhhh…do tell!


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