# Entertainment Room Project



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Hi everyone,

I just joined this group yesterday as I was looking for some guidance and insight into a basement project I am working on. I'm not looking to build a full blown theatre as I don't have the space or resources (expecting a baby soon). I am looking to build more of an entertainment area where the family can relax by the fire and watch a movie.

I have a small area to work with and my wife said I can do whatever I'd like. As a result of this, I'd like to do a projector with a 100" screen. I'd go down to 80" screen if people think the area I'm working with is too small. I've always dreamed of having an area like this and I want to make it happen. I have always believed in buying quality products. I fly R/C helicopters and learned very quick that when you go cheap to save money, you eventually end up spending much more. Having said that, I have accepted the fact that I am not going to get the best equipment right now. It's a sacrifice I want to make being a father to be. But being a father to be, I still want my area. I have looked at a ton of projectors on amazon and see some for sub $500. I'm still in the framing phase of the area I'm working with so I'm still a little ways away from needing a projector. Is it possible for me to get an HD projector for $500 or under and it actually look decent? We mostly watch Netflix but occasionally watch a Bluray.

Below is a crude drawing of my entertainment area layout. I'd really like to hear what people have to say. Will I be able to get this to work with my area?


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

In case people are wondering why I drew the 10.5 foot line into the couch, that is the viewing distance when sitting on the couch.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

I have a 115" screen from 11 feet and I think the height is perfect, but I wish I had the width in my room to go wider with a 2.35:1 screen, so I wouldn't worry about dropping the size below 100". 

This isn't for everyone, but what I did when I first built my theater room was just watched craigslist for deals. I ended up getting a 720p projector for $300. That lasted me a year or two until I bought a refurbished Optoma 1080p. That is working just fine until I can upgrade again. 
By going used/refurb to start, it actually is a nice way to cheaply get things up and running and decide what you need/want to invest more in/improve. 
If you want to go new from the start, Optoma, along with Epson and Benq, make some excellent entry-level projectors for not much more than $500. Great projectors, especially if you can avoid going to others' theater rooms and seeing what $1500-4000 will get you. 

Big thing to look for on a projector is the native aspect ratio. Make sure it's 1920x1080 or at least 1280x720 (720p). If it's another ratio (not 4K), then it's more of a multimedia projector, made for a boardroom, not a theater. That's where you'll likely be unhappy with your purchase. 

As long as it's a native HD video resolution then start comparing brightness and contrast, etc to make your pick. 

Projectorcentral.com is a great resource for standardized data on most projectors on the market. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Thank you very much! That is great information. I was mostly worried about my space being too small to make this work.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

No problem. Post again if you have any more questions. My room is the Cinema 1858 room in the Completed Theater thread. Check it out. 100% small budget big performance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I'm definitely going to check it out! Thanks!


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I checked out your theatre and it looks great!

I'm still in the process of framing my basement. I got to the entertainment/theatre area today when I fell off the ladder and landed on my nail gun. My wife told me I was done for the day. LOL

I have to figure out how I am going to work around an electrical box, drain pipe, and crawl space access. I'm planning on having the screen cover these areas up as much as possible but I may have to modify the drain pipe to get it closer to the cement wall so my frame can be close to the wall.


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Here are a few pictures.

Framing for office:
http://imgur.com/qPxx5vu









This is where the wall with the screen will be. You can see the few obstacles that I have to work around: 
http://imgur.com/idKGfFh









Fireplace in the entertainment area/theatre. Everything left the way it is after I fell off that ladder:
http://imgur.com/jOgIkWG


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

False wall w/acoustically transparent screen. 

I fell off a ladder in November hanging lights on the house. Actually I didn't fall off the ladder, it fell out from under me when I was getting back down off the roof. Broke my shoulder. Still hurts. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

That's no good! Luckily I'm just a little banged up.

Can you explain what a false wall is?


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

It's basically a few studs framed out a small distance from the actual wall. You put your LCR speakers behind it (which will determine distance) and then hand your screen on it and fill around the screen with some light absorbing fabric. It looks like a wall, but really it's just a frame holder.
You can/should also place some absorptive material behind there as well. 
This is my front wall with the screen down. 








Edit: further explanation. You see the two vertical studs front and center. The crossbeam on there is a French cleat that holds my screen. Across the top and top half of the sides is some Fidelio black velvet left over from my screen frame. Across the bottom is a 12" row of the same cedar that frames out the entire room, for continuity. 

It's important to not create an echo chamber with a false wall, it can kill your audio. That's why people with more non-screen space will use cloth panels to fill in around their screen. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Is this a route you would recommend even though I need to have access to the electrical panel and crawl space?


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I might also add that I want to save as much space as possible. That's why I was considering to modify the drain pipe to move it so it was against the cement wall. With the layout of our room, the couch is about 11 feet from the screen. Moving the wall out would push the screen even closer. It wouldn't be a problem if I could move the couch further back but I can't.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

It's very simple with a French cleat to remove the screen and access behind. With your speakers behind it, in theory you don't lose any "space" and it looks cleaner. Your screen will be a bit closer but as I mentioned in the beginning, I think you have wiggle room with 100" screen. I'm at 11' from a 115" and I could stand to go even a little bigger. 

I would do a false screen wall if it were my room. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Okay, I think that will be route I am going to go then. 

Do the speakers have to be placed at the same distance from the edge of the screen? The electrical box and drain pipe may throw that off a little bit. 

I also want to mention that you have been a great help! I'm doing this project on my own with very little experience. It's awesome to have somewhere to go and discuss stuff with.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

You definitely want your speakers spaced evenly. Find a spot as close to the edge of the screen as possible where they can both be the same distance out from the center. If you have to go to the outside of the screen frame that's okay too. Just use acoustically transparent material as your surround wall and it will sound great. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

Also, you will love having the center channel behind the screen. 
Check out seymourav.com for a lot of great info on using an AT screen. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

What are your front speakers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I don't have any of the electronics yet. I need to have the entire basement framed and ready for drywall before I can start getting all the electronics (per the wife). I am going to start doing my research now on a sound system. I will most likely go with a 5.1. Any recommendations? I appreciate good sound but I'm not going to go all out on my first setup. As I mentioned before, we have a baby coming in November. Finishing the basement is mainly for more space for the baby and the theatre area is more of a prize for me.


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I was looking a little closer at the picture of the false wall...is that framing behind the false wall? If so, I would need to frame against the cement wall and work around the obstacles? This is where I would insulate. Then I would have to build the false wall out from that to fit the speakers in the wall and make one long continuous flat wall that the screen will be built into as well?


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

I would say to audition several brands/types of speakers regardless of price range and choose some favorites. Then use that list and the characteristics of the speakers on it to track down a set in your price range. Hard to just recommend something out of the blue but if I had to Id say the SVS Prime Satellite 5.1 system is a fantastic value. 

Just keep in mind the larger your speakers, the deeper the space behind the false wall, which also makes the SVS system attractive in your space. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

That is framing behind my false wall, but only necessary because it's the framing of my exterior wall. You wouldn't need to frame it out behind there, except maybe a few points to mount some acoustic dampening (insulation, foam, etc) to the wall. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Wowser, I just checked out the SVS Prime Satellite 5.1 system. That is well outside my budget. You would have to fill out a missing persons report on me if I purchased those. LOL


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

Wouldn't want that. 
Either way, that's the form factor you should try to match. Identical satellites, at least for the front, and a matching sub. 
Keep an eye on Craigslist for deals. I picked up a $1200 pair of B&Ws and a $400 center for $120. 
I would also prewire for the works while everything is opened up. Do a little research on Atmos and DTS:X and Auro. Run wires that can be used later for those types of formats and 7.1, even if you're not going to go that way from the start. It's much easier and not too expensive to run cable for them now, and it will save you a ton of work and money in the future. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

After doing much research and thinking, I think I am going to build the false wall like you recommended except I am not going to go with an AT screen. I'm trying to keep the budget as low as possible for the first go at this. I will build the false wall so in the future I can get an AT screen and put the speakers in the wall. For now I will put the front left and right speakers in the wall to the sides of the screen. I've been looking at AT screens and they are just going to cost too much for me right now.


----------



## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

Video guru Joe Kane has said AT screens compromise both audio and video, so not having one may not be such a bad thing...

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I'd hate to offend anybody but who is Joe Kane?


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

vidiot33 said:


> Video guru Joe Kane has said AT screens compromise both audio and video, so not having one may not be such a bad thing...
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


Link please?


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Anyways, its not so much I'm worried about compromising sound quality as it is just saving some money for my first round of getting into this hobby.


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Thrillcat,

What do you think about this projector?

http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-MH630-10...F8&qid=1434075150&sr=1-52&keywords=projectors

It's a little bit more than what I want to spend on a projector but I may be able to get away with it. There's also the chance that the price will drop a little bit because I am still a few months out from purchasing a projector. I am also keeping my eye out for used projectors. I would post in the Want to Buy forums but I don't have enough posts yet.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

mknope said:


> What do you think about this projector?
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/BenQ-MH630-10...F8&qid=1434075150&sr=1-52&keywords=projectors


It would work. I wouldn't lock in on that particular projector yet, though...for example, and this is probably just my experience with Optoma, but I would probably recommend this one over the Benq: http://www.amazon.com/Optoma-HD141X...39P92/ref=cm_cr_pr_sims_t/190-2542267-3977025

Before you settle on a projector, you'll want to figure out exactly what screen size you want/need and how far the projector will be from the screen. When you're looking at projectors in this price range, you'll want to keep in mind that the throw distances will be pretty limited - meaning if you want a bigger picture you have to mount it further away.

www.projectorcentral.com is your absolute best friend while picking a projector, or at least narrowing down a list. The Projector Calculator allows you to see if a particular model will work in your room or not, based on throw distance, screen size, etc. And it easily allows you to select a few models and compare them head to head, and not just current models - you'll find specs for almost every projector from the last 10 years on there, so you'll have Craigslist models covered too.


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

This weekend I framed the wall that is going to have the screen. Later today I am going to take some measurements of the distance from where the projector will be to the wall and then use the calculator on projectorcenter.com to determine what would be best. I'm thinking I won't need a short throw projector. I looked at the Optoma GT1080 and the throw distance is 4' for a 110" screen. The Optoma HD141X has a throw distance of 11'3" for a 100" screen. I'm thinking I'm in the 11' to 12' area but I will confirm that later. I could move it about a foot further back if I put the projector above the duct work. I can take some pictures to show what I'm talking about. 

Here is a picture of my framing for the screen wall. The electrical panel and crawl space will have access doors.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

mknope said:


> I could move it about a foot further back if I put the projector above the duct work.


The framing looks good.

I wouldn't recommend putting the projector above the ductwork. When you look at the Projector Calculator on projectorcentral.com, you'll notice it also gives you an "offset" number for each projector. That's where it needs to be vertically to avoid the need for keystone upon setup (keystone is a digital distortion of the picture and should be avoided at all costs). If you go too high you'll be projecting down at an angle and will need to use the keystone setting to square up your image, which will cause you to lose resolution.


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Okay, I won't put it above the duct work.

I stumbled upon a craigslist ad for an audio setup and was hoping you could take a look at it. 

http://porthuron.craigslist.org/ele/5049410561.html

The guy says the two rear speakers are insignia and the sub woofer is still basically brand new. He says it works fine and has no issues. It has 3 HDMI inputs. I only need one HDMI for my X Box One and one for my PC. What do you think? The price seemed pretty good to me.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

It's hard to say yes or no to that without model numbers on things, especially the AVR.

If the AVR is actually 7 or 8 years old, there's a decent chance it won't have the latest surround decoding for the formats you'll get on Bluray. It'll still work, but you won't be getting everything out of it. Also, the sub could be a decent deal, but you're by no means going to get very low out of it with only a 10" driver.

It's hard to make recommendations without knowing what your budget is. This is old, but it's a decent breakdown of how much of your equipment budget should be going toward certain items. There are some areas where you should spend more, others where you can spend less. http://www.audioholics.com/how-to-shop/ask-dr-a-the-budget-dance

If you're really looking to just have something to put in your room when it's done, then perhaps that craigslist ad is a decent deal for you. If you are hoping to get something that will last a little longer, probably not.

Again, it's hard to recommend something without knowing even a ballpark budget. I don't want to scare you off with high numbers, but I also want to make sure you and your family have something that you can enjoy when it's done. Nothing worse than spending $5000, hating the end project and never using it when you could've 
spent $6000 and gotten years of enjoyment out of it.


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I can tell you that model for the AVR is STR-DG810. As my wife piles more and more projects on me, my budget is decreasing. I wouldn't want to spend more than $500 for sound. My wife does not care much about sound so talking her into spending more on sound will most likely not work. I am lucky to be getting surround sound because she is not a big fan of it.


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

So I went downstairs and took a measurement of where the projector could go. If I put it just in front of the air duct it will be right above the couch and that will put it at about 10.5' away from the screen. I want to do a 100" screen and the Optoma HD141X has a throw distance of 11'3" for that size so I don't think that will work. If I go with a short throw projector like the Optoma GT1080, the throw distance is 3'7" for that size screen. What is better? Having the projector right about the couch or in the middle of the room?


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

I will diagram the room with measurements later today.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

I have zero experience with short throw projectors so I can't help you with that. Take a look at the Epson Powerlite Home Cinema 2000. That would hit your throw range and I'd feel a little more comfortable as it's not called a 'Gaming Projector' by the manufacturer. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Do you have any idea when it comes to layouts if its better to have the projector above the viewers or in front of the viewers? I just didn't know if the fan running would be bothersome directly above people watching something.


----------



## thrillcat (Mar 25, 2014)

Fan noise will be fan noise and the location of the projector will have little impact. As far as placement I think most people keep it over the viewing position or behind, simply because of their screen sizes and required throw distance. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## mknope (Jun 1, 2015)

Thrillcat,

I wasn't able to add an attachment to a PM to show you what I found. I went on the Epson website and used their interactive calculator and it appears that I can mount the Epson Home Cinema 2000 from the ceiling.


----------

