# What is the best Blu-ray player available now?



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I know there are several that own the PS3 and believe it's the best BD player available right now, but in your opinion, experience and/or research, what would be the best standalone player right now?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Reading all the reviews and now owning one. I read and can say that the Samsung BDP1400 is one of the best available for the money and that the upconversion is second to none. But I think that any player that has the HQV rayon processor is going to look good.
EDIT: the Samsung is Only Blu-ray Profile 1.0 compliant, so it will not play some bonus features on some new discs in 2008 but that may be upgradeable in a firmware update at some point.


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Certainly from everything I've read, the PS3 is the best *functioning* Blu-Ray player available. Having a massively-powerful processor on board means that transitions, pauses, etc are all kept to a minimum... one hi-fi magazine said that the other stand-alone players were dinosaurs in comparison.

For quality, I'm not sure there's a huge difference between them, but I have heard the PS3 can have some issues with copy protected material and bitstreaming (I'm not sure what, so you might need to Google it). The PS3 is also region-locked for both Blu-Ray AND regular DVDs, and I haven't heard of an unlocking service as yet.

One thing that did annoy me: it won't play SACDs through optical-out, which may be related to the copy-protection thing. HDMI is okay though, I believe.

The PS3 looks pretty neat, but definitely doesn't fit in with my other hi-fi gear. And make sure you budget for the remote as well. I tried using the controller but finally relented last week and bought the remote -- so much easier.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

John Simpson said:


> I tried using the controller but finally relented last week and bought the remote -- so much easier.


I wonder if you can use the Harmony remotes with it? The PS3 certainly is a good option.


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> I wonder if you can use the Harmony remotes with it? The PS3 certainly is a good option.


Nah, the proprietary PS3 remote is a *Bluetooth *device (the Harmony is IR or RF, yeah?).

You can buy IR remotes on eBay (they have a USB key that plugs into the front of the PS3) and that might work... but I'm not sure of their quality.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

In the midst of this... let me ask a few questions about the PS3...

Can it be place horizontally on a shelf instead of vertically? 

Will it output 1080p/24?

Is it 1.3 HDMI compliant?

Does it upconvert SD-DVD and is it comparable to the standalone units upconversion?

EDIT: Also am I right that the 80GB unit has a wireless network card?


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Sonnie said:


> In the midst of this... let me ask a few questions about the PS3...
> Can it be place horizontally on a shelf instead of vertically?
> Will it output 1080p/24?
> Is it 1.3 HDMI compliant?


Yes to all of the above.

We're now up to firmware update 2.1, and there's been a bunch of goodies from those (the wireless connection is flawless, very well implemented).

Knowing that Sony is discounting these units in order to gain market share and sell games, it's pretty much impossible to find a comparable player at the same price.

(And no, I don't work for Sony :heehee:. I actually hated the PS2 and tried desperately to like the XBox360, but really there's no comparison.)


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hmmm... although I don't really care about the games, this is looking better and better by the minute. I like the wireless connection and the fact they keep it upgraded.

I wonder though if it is as good upconverting SD as my XA2 is? The XA2 just does a marvelous job.


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Sonnie said:


> I wonder though if it is as good upconverting SD as my XA2 is? The XA2 just does a marvelous job.


Yeah, the upconverting of standad DVDs was added in update 1.4. Seems to do a terrific job, but I have no reference with other players (I kinda doubt it does it as well as a dedicated scaler).

Oh, one thing that is also pretty neat: as soon as you insert a disc, it switches itself on and goes into movie mode. No mucking around with PS3 menus etc... it's like Sony knew many buyers wouldn't even look twice at their games.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

It looks like the remote may be bluetooth and not IR. Do they make an IR remote so that I can learn the commands into my Universal MX-810? Having to use a separate remote would end my consideration of it immediately.

Does it pass the audio via HDMI as well?


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Re: the remote, see my second post above.

I'm pretty sure the HDMI 1.3a does everything -- but my plasma only has component, so I haven't tried it personally (I use component/optical out). Both the HDMI and component cables are sold separately.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Well poo-nanny on the remote. I think that wound it up for me. Why in the world if Sony thought of everything else to accommodate those who only wanted to use it for a Blu-ray player in their HT, why would they not realize we would need and IR receiver in the unit with a regular IR remote for our learning remotes? :rolleyesno:

EDIT: It also appears you cannot program macros to power on and off the unit. Another bummer.


Okay... back to real players that have all the necessary features I can live with. The PS3 is out!


Any others besides the BD-P1400?


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Yeah, I dunno. Is Bluetooth better for going through walls or something?

Might be worth trying one of those Chinese-made IR remotes though... otherwise my IR-relay system in the new house is messed up!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Bluetooth would be nice if they made a Bluetooth/IR combo learning remote, but they don't. You could get the USB IR receiver, but you will still have to either use the Bluetooth remote to power on and off the system or do it manually, which would defeat the entire purpose of me getting the MX-810. I was ready for the PS3 for a few minutes there, but Sony developers blew it!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I haven't really given the Panasonic DMP-BD30K much thought, but it looks like it might be more promising than the Samsung.


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Get the new Pany BD50 when it comes out next quarter. More audio codecs and BD Live (profile 2.0) capability.


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## MrPorterhouse (Jul 29, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> I haven't really given the Panasonic DMP-BD30K much thought, but it looks like it might be more promising than the Samsung.


A couple of comments.

Regarding the PS3, there are some remote solutions just hitting the market now that allow for full function control with a universal IR remote, like Harmony remotes, etc... 
http://www.schmartz.com/product.sc;jsessionid=CD577EA92522CA017E5DE03179FF27FD.qscweb25?categoryId=1&productId=4
This still requires you to use a PSP to enable the Power ON code, but you only need the PSP 1 time, so if you know someone with a PSP, you can just borrow theirs. This will enable every feature and function.

There is the ever-popular Nyco IR solution that does everything except Power ON/Off. Its cheap and effective. Very Well received.
http://www.nyko.com/nyko/products/?i=113


Then, Upconverting standard DVD's. The PS3 is good. Its not as good as the Toshiba XA2, which is top-notch, but the PS3 will perform as well as your other good upconverters out there.



Now, as to which Blu-ray player is the "Best" option. I'd have to say at this point, I'd still go PS3. In the standalone region, that Panasonic BD30 is very good and probably the best option in standalones. The newer version, BD50, looks to be outstanding, but won't be availible until Q2 2008 and will cost around $599. I'd say, currently, the BD30 is a very good choice. Its a bitstream player for high rez audio, meaning that you'll need a receiver that can decode the Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio. The PS3 and the BD50 will internally decode the audio and pass as PCM.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I really want the Samsung 5000, since it will probably be the best of the upconverting, but posts like the following are discouraging. He really could not have said it better... from AVS:



> Originally Posted by *jjgasp*
> _I've owned the BDUP-5000 for several weeks now. I dearly wanted this player to do all that I thought it would be capable of doing. I've spent way too much time on the forums reading others thoughts, speculation, etc. The strongest impression I take away from all of this is the question - when did we as consumers start to settle for inferior products that plain and simple don't WORK? I'm amazed at the apologists on the forum (many of whom I suspect are employed in some facet of the electronics industry.) They fall into several categories:
> 
> 1) Those that entreat us to trust that Samsung will do the right thing and fix all of this unit's shortcomings;
> ...


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

MrPorterhouse said:


> A couple of comments.
> 
> Regarding the PS3, there are some remote solutions just hitting the market now that allow for full function control with a universal IR remote, like Harmony remotes, etc...
> http://www.schmartz.com/product.sc;jsessionid=CD577EA92522CA017E5DE03179FF27FD.qscweb25?categoryId=1&productId=4
> ...


Hmmm... you may have my attention again on the PS3. I have actually read that it does pretty well on upconverting... comments that regular SD looked almost as good as BD, which is what I'm used to with the XA2. Although it makes sense the XA2 would top the PS3 by at least some margin due to the different chips. 

My biggest beef was the remote control and powering on and off. We just purchased a PSP for our daughter at x-mas... I'll have to look into this option.


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

I am kind of confused here Sonnie - you are looking for the best high def player but are getting caught up in upscaling . While upscaling has some importance I would focus more on the HD capabilities of the player. BTW if you are really interested in the PS3 despite the remote remember it is a powerhouse and Sony has said they plan on increasing the upscaling capabilities of the unit further. Also, I think Toshiba was showing off the upscaling power of the Cell at CES and from all the reports I read it did an absolutely amazing job.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Does the PS3 have a rear USB port?


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

I am pretty sure it doesn't have rear USB support. If I am wrong someone please correct me and then I will go home and move my HD to the rear .


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

avaserfi said:


> I am kind of confused here Sonnie - you are looking for the best high def player but are getting caught up in upscaling . While upscaling has some importance I would focus more on the HD capabilities of the player. BTW if you are really interested in the PS3 despite the remote remember it is a powerhouse and Sony has said they plan on increasing the upscaling capabilities of the unit further. Also, I think Toshiba was showing off the upscaling power of the Cell at CES and from all the reports I read it did an absolutely amazing job.


For me... part of being the best HD player includes its ability to upconvert SD-DVDs. I own quite a few and many of them are not offered in HD format at this time. Plus I rent a lot of movies that I don't buy and they are not available in HD for me to rent, therefore, upconversion in whatever I buy is very important.


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

Sonnie I can't comment on a comparison between the PS3 and the XA2, but I do have an A2 and I give the PS3 a slight edge, but they both do a fine job. I suspect that the PS3 is good, but not quite as good as the XA2. 

One thing though is it is more computer than anything so upconverting could possibly be made even better on the PS3 in future updates. The most recent update added DivX and WMV high def playback for stored video files. I know you didn't mention this as a want, but it also can be used as a media server where as the HD DVD and BD players are just stand alone single function machines.

As far as performance, I'll dig up the review, but it was tested and reviewed and said to be as good as the Pioneer Elite Bluray player but at a fraction of the price. The only drawback is the audio out options, but if you are running HDMI to your receiver that's probably a non-issue.

The CD feature is pretty cool... insert a CD and play it that way, or hit a button and rip it right to your hard drive. You can also select the format you want it to rip in. And they added play list capability for photos and music files now but not for video yet, as well as native DVD VOB file playback capability (for playing vobs on a hard drive).

No to the rear USB port question.


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

Sonnie said:


> For me... part of being the best HD player includes its ability to upconvert SD-DVDs. I own quite a few and many of them are not offered in HD format at this time. Plus I rent a lot of movies that I don't buy and they are not available in HD for me to rent, therefore, upconversion in whatever I buy is very important.


I guess that makes sense. For me when I bought a PS3 mainly for games and started watching BD I found it annoying to go back to SD. While I do go back quite often I have accepted that even upscaled SD while looking good still does not compare to a quality HD title. I think with time an adapter will be released for the PS3 so that it can be used with a regular universal remote. 

My vote is with it as it is easy to use has great functionality (especially if you got your daughter that PSP). Also, its upscaling abilities haven''t even come close to their peak as shown by CES plus it is a fast HD player.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Now this guy made me realize something I've embarrassingly overlooked...


> The two "issues" that exist wrt the PS3 are the inability to turn Off or On the PS3 with the Harmony remote. I view this as a non-issue as I walk over to the PS3 to insert the DVD/BD and this action turns the PS3 On. At the completion of the movie I walk over an eject the DVD/BD snd either turn the PS3 Off or leave it on as desired.


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

Sonnie said:


> For me... part of being the best HD player includes its ability to upconvert SD-DVDs. I own quite a few and many of them are not offered in HD format at this time. Plus I rent a lot of movies that I don't buy and they are not available in HD for me to rent, therefore, upconversion in whatever I buy is very important.


I can say this, it plays everything thrown at it (of course with the exception of HD DVDs) and upconverts it too...

It plays store bought SDVDs, DVD-R, DVD+R, and even handles DL with no problem which my A2 did have some issues with. For the fun of it I made a double feature disc out of my Planet Terror and Death Proof discs so I could have the same 'double feature' as when it played in the theater and it plays flawlessly, which it wouldn't on the A2. Home videos burnt to DVD play fine too and I've had some quirks with those on other players at times.

My brother has a Panasonic BD player, I think the BD30 and he is very happy with it. I don't know the full specs/features of it though.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Now that I actually sit here and think about it... I usually get up and go over to my XA2 and eject the disc I was watching before I leave the room, especially if it's a rental disc... then I back away from everything and press the Power Off button to power down everything. I may be making too big of a deal out of the PS3 not having remote power on and off. Of course I'll still want an IR remote to learn into my MX-810 for various functions such as navigation, stop, pause, play, skip, FF and RW, etc.


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## MrPorterhouse (Jul 29, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> Now that I actually sit here and think about it... I usually get up and go over to my XA2 and eject the disc I was watching before I leave the room, especially if it's a rental disc... then I back away from everything and press the Power Off button to power down everything. I may be making too big of a deal out of the PS3 not having remote power on and off. Of course I'll still want an IR remote to learn into my MX-810 for various functions such as navigation, stop, pause, play, skip, FF and RW, etc.


If you want to be able to Power On/Off the PS3 with your MX-810, that link I gave you above takes you to the remote solution that can do it. Its a little more cash(about $50 I think). If you can live without the Power ON/Off, then the Nyco IR solution is cheap. For me, I thought I would be annoyed by not having the remote Power Off, but in reality, its not a big deal . I always get up out of the chair to walk out of the room and its no big deal to walk past the PS3 and touch it.


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

One reason for wanting/using a remote power up/down feature is if the PS3 is setup as a media server with a ton of TV shows and DVDs archived on an external HD. For that there is no need to go over and put a disc in, so it is nice having a normal function like that.

Sonnie I agree that Sony missed the boat on that (not having an IR pickup to integrate with existing systems/remotes) and they should have thrown in an HDMI cable too seeing how inexpensive they are on Monoprice and RiteAV.

Other than that, the biggest issue for some people is the limited audio out options, but it does play SACD, which a lot of players won't. If you can live with that the PS3 really is one of the best BD players and most update-able. What I would do is see if Best Buy has a display setup with the PS3 also connected and have them spin a disc and let you play with it to check it out. Otherwise see if someone you know (or your kids) have one and will demo it for you. 

Games... I had my PS3 for a year and my wife got me my first game for Christmas. I wanted one mainly to check it out, but also as a 'show off' piece of my setup. Although I'm not a gamer, both my wife and I were saying WOW!

Other than that, how many HD DVD's do you have? You might want to check into a combo player like you were originally thinking, or wait and see what Toshiba is going to do, they might end up putting something out.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

MrPorterhouse said:


> If you want to be able to Power On/Off the PS3 with your MX-810, that link I gave you above takes you to the remote solution that can do it. Its a little more cash(about $50 I think). If you can live without the Power ON/Off, then the Nyco IR solution is cheap. For me, I thought I would be annoyed by not having the remote Power Off, but in reality, its not a big deal . I always get up out of the chair to walk out of the room and its no big deal to walk past the PS3 and touch it.


Yes... I chatted with that guy a good bit... thanks for those links. He even recommended the same Nyco IR solution if I was not needing power on and off and didn't want to wait on his IR/USB contraption. Really the only difference between his $35 doohickey and the $14 Nyco is his doesn't stick out like the Nyco does... it is contoured and matches the front of the unit nicer. He does not supply a remote either, but you can get the codes easy enough. I probably have the PS2 codes in my MX-810. 

I agree it seems easy enough to physically turn it on an off. I just really wasn't thinking at first.



wbassett said:


> Other than that, the biggest issue for some people is the limited audio out options, but it does play SACD, which a lot of players won't. If you can live with that the PS3 really is one of the best BD players and most update-able.


The only audio connection I have ever used on the XA2 is HDMI. I have very few cables being used. As long as I get what BD will output, I'm fine.



wbassett said:


> Other than that, how many HD DVD's do you have? You might want to check into a combo player like you were originally thinking, or wait and see what Toshiba is going to do, they might end up putting something out.


Not too many because I sold most of them a few months ago. I may have about 15 now. The one I will probably miss the most is the Eagles in concert. That is one awesome looking image and I watch it frequently. But I'm sure I can pick up an SD version of it and be happy enough. I think I can survive. HOWEVER, I do kinda wanna see what Toshiba says. I would hate to bypass the dual player if they end up pulling some miracle out of the hat and end up having to wait forty forevers for HD versions of some of my favorites.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

I noticed that Denon is now in the Blu-ray market with two players, one of which has no connections other than HDMI. I thought that was interesting. The other has actual 7.1 outputs, so people with an older AVR can run the new surround formats (I surmised). However, at $2500, one would be better off getting a newer receiver.


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

yourgrandma said:


> I noticed that Denon is now in the Blu-ray market with two players, one of which has no connections other than HDMI. I thought that was interesting.


Denon's new Blu-ray *transport only* is a fabulous idea... there's no need to buy more decoders when your new receiver will do it all for you! Forward thinking on their part.

The weirdest thing is that they don't have Denon Link... I'm still looking for an explanation as to why... :dontknow:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yeah, but at $1200 it's killin' me! :thud:


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

John Simpson said:


> The weirdest thing is that they don't have Denon Link... I'm still looking for an explanation as to why... :dontknow:


HDMI does everything that Denon Link does and its cheaper and more common. The mass adoption of HDMI spelled the end of Denon's proprietary connection.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Doesn't denon link transmit dvd-a and sacd?
I've been doing some homework and the 60gb PS3 is no longer produced. In order to get PS2 game compatability, I'd need an 80gb. Way to reward repeat business, Sony. Thanks. I really cant think of any reason I need any hard drive space, so this bothers me. $500 is sort of a lot for me right now, especially for a game consol. I'm doing some more shopping.

EDIT: Ya know, I'm looking at the other BD players, and I guess I'll just have to get the infernal PS3. It just bugs me that I'm buying another computer.


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## avaserfi (Jul 5, 2007)

yourgrandma said:


> Doesn't denon link transmit dvd-a and sacd?


HDMI 1.1 allowed for the transmission of DVD-A and I believe HDMI 1.2 allowed for SACD transmission.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

yourgrandma said:


> EDIT: Ya know, I'm looking at the other BD players, and I guess I'll just have to get the infernal PS3.


What influences your decision?


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Price vs. features.

I'll be able to play games on the PS3. It will limit the number of video input resources I'll need. From what I hear, it's actually a good player, and I don't have room for another component in my rack. And as little as I need the hard drive and media center functionality, it's nice to know it's there and that my money has gone to something that has the potential to be upgraded. 

I'm new as all get out to hd, so I wouldn't put much value in my decision, the PS3 seems to have my needs covered.

It's just that price that irks me.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I think the price is what gets me too. $550 or so with a second controller and IR remote.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Yeah, but my justification is that it's not a whole lot more than most other standard Blu-ray players, and the gaming is a nice added value. Although I can only think of three games I want, surely there are more to come.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

This thread was turning out to be more about the PS3 than what the best Blu-ray player available is, therefore I created the following thread to continue discussing the PS3:

Considering the PS3 for my Blu-ray player...


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## Ayreonaut (Apr 26, 2006)

Here are links to two comparison charts showing various player capabilities.

http://idoblu.co.uk/page2 Blu-ray Players.html

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672


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## Funkmonkey (Jan 13, 2008)

Ayreonaut said:


> Here are links to two comparison charts showing various player capabilities.
> 
> http://idoblu.co.uk/page2 Blu-ray Players.html
> 
> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980672


excellent post. both charts are very helpful even at a quick glance. The second link contains pricing information.
PS3 is included... Missed it at first glance.
Thanks Ayreonaut


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

Yep, an excellent table -- makes a mockery of some of those prices, as you look down the list of features and see the PS3 at $399. Even the Denon transport is looking a bit (!) expensive :whistling:

I'm still trying to get my head around the PS3 PCM feed for Dolby True HD. So it decodes it internally, and outputs it as a pure digital stream? What's the final difference between that and the receiver processing the signal? Don't they all sound the same?

And why is the PS3 the only one that does it that way?... :scratch:


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## Ayreonaut (Apr 26, 2006)

There should be no audible difference whether the codecs are decoded to pcm in the player or in the receiver. A receiver that decodes all these codecs usually costs more. The players that stream the codecs but don't decode them usually cost less.

I've decided on the PS3 and the Denon AVR 888. 
The PS3 will decode and send 7.1 PCM to the Denon.

If I bought the Panasonic DMP BD30 which only streams the codecs, I'd have to step up to the Denon AVR 988 (to decode) which costs quite a bit more.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ayreonaut said:


> There should be no audible difference whether the codecs are decoded to pcm in the player or in the receiver. A receiver that decodes all these codecs usually costs more.


This is not true, Receivers have far better decoders than the players have and some do not decode all 5.1 and most do not do 7.1 channels at the full bitrate some only do two channels. But the bottom line is that receivers will do a better job simply because they have better components to do the job it may not always be a noticeable difference for the average user but for some who have really good speakers and a good receiver there will be a difference.


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## Ayreonaut (Apr 26, 2006)

There is no quality issue with unpacking lossless audio codecs.

There are players _and receivers_ that have limited functionality. 

Be careful to check the capabilities of either one.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

I'll add my .02 here.  I've had 4 blu-ray players in my possession the past few months and have done some extensive testing/comparing & even did some blind testing with one of my brothers. A quick comment on the Samsung 1400. At least the one I had for a week was rather clunky & loud. The disc drawer was just too loud & cheap sounding. I know that might come across a tad snobbish & I am not the way. But that alone ruled the Samsung out. 

My first Blu-ray player was the Sony BDP-S1. It's a beast of a player similar to the Toshiba XA-1. I still have it in my bedroom. It was slow but firmware updates greatly improved the responsiveness as well as internally decoding TrueHD & DTS-HD. (not DTS-MA) however. 

I bought the Panasonic BD30 for it's ability to send these advanced audio tracks to my reciever to decode. I like that feature....Then I came across the Sony S500 player that also sends bitstream, but cannot send DTS-MA.

However, testing both the Panny BD30 & Sony S500 with BD playback I found the Sony to output a slightly more natural image. My screen is 113 inches diagonal & my projector is the Sony 1080p Pearl. Both devices were set to 1080p24 and HDMI. 

The differences were very slight mind you but where I favored the Sony was noticeable in facial tones. Just a hair better to my eyes. I brought my brother over and used the Pirates blu-ray disc that I have 2 copies of & he also chose the Sony. Granted this is all rather subjective. 

The Panasonic BD30 is great player & to it's credit, is faster to load discs than the Sonys I own. I ended up giving the Panny to my parents and kept the Sony S500. 

FWIW, all 3 Sony's (S1, s300, s500) appear to have the same image in regards to Blu-ray playback. 

Well, there you have it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Timobi said:


> A quick comment on the Samsung 1400. At least the one I had for a week was rather clunky & loud. The disc drawer was just too loud & cheap sounding. I know that might come across a tad snobbish & I am not the way. But that alone ruled the Samsung out.


A noisy drawer caused you to rule the player out? since when does that have an affect on playback of a player?
For the price of $299 the 1400 is one of the best BluRay players out there. I have had no issues with mine at all.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm glad you're having success with your Samsung. Yes, the one I had was very loud & felt cheap compared to the Sony players so absolutely that alone was very telling. I mean it was alot louder & was an easy decision to part ways with it. Did if directly affect the image? I don't know but paying $299 for it, one deserves a tad more refinement. 

Each of us has certain things we look for in our gear & certainly image/audio is top tier but how it gets there is a factor too.


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## John Simpson (May 10, 2007)

I've been doing a few blind tests between the sound from the *PS3 *and my older *Denon DVD-5000*. The DVD-5000 (at A$4999) was Denon's flagship DVD player a while ago, and has held up well against everything that's come out since.

To see if it's time to retire the Denon, I've compared the same DVDs across both, with two other people as blind testers (note that the PS3 is optical connection, while the DVD-5000 is coaxial). 

All agreed the sound from the PS3 is immediate and accurate, but also quite sharp at times. The Denon in comparison feels quite lazy, but also much much warmer -- you can turn up the volume considerably higher with the Denon before you feel that "nails on a chalkboard" sound.

Steering to each channel is razor sharp from the PS3 -- things that drift around on the Denon are strongly localised on the PS3. We were watching a scene from "Apocalypto" with animals in the rear channels, and the PS3 made it sound as if there were individual bugs on the back wall -- whereas the Denon tended to mash the soundstage together.

For error correction (scratched discs etc) the Denon 5000 has always been a dog, so the PS3 is an improvement. Even so, if the PS3 does hit a scratch it will do something annoying: there'll be a pause, then it will actually jump ahead itself, sometimes to the next chapter, and you'll miss out on a chunk of the movie. You then need to rewind to see what you skipped.

For speed, the PS3 feels slightly quicker, but that's probably because the DVD-5000 uses relay switches (the "clicking" sound you get with each action). The PS3 remote (bought separately) is excellent, and actually matches our Sony PVR remote. I've no idea what all the buttons do though, so they seem a bit wasted.

In summary, I initially thought I liked the sound from the PS3 because it was so darned accurate. However, my ears have always preferred warm sounding equipment, so I'll now sacrifice that accuracy for a much more enjoyable listening experience. The PS3 is like the class nerd: is incredibly good at doing the technical stuff, but doesn't mix well in a social situation. I'll be keeping my DVD-5000 a bit longer.


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## Guest (Mar 4, 2008)

I'm waiting for the OPPO blu-ray, I have a 980H right now that I bought to play SACD's and I like the way it works for DVD's. I heard that they are working on a BR player.


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

For current multichannel (not stereo) audio performance comparisions, IMHO, one should no longer be using S/PDIF (coax or optical toslink) which only has lossy codec transport for multichannel audio. Instead you need to use HDMI (multichannel linear PCM which is lossless, or raw bitstream with new lossless audio codecs). For players that have them, multichannel analog audio outputs can be used. Even rarer, there was IEEE 1394 (iLink) that could transport lossless multichannel linear PCM.

In other words, for 5.1 or 7.1 sound and best performance it is best to use a lossless connection and not S/PDIF with legacy lossy DD or dts audio codecs.


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## Guest (Mar 5, 2008)

bobgpsr said:


> For current multichannel (not stereo) audio performance comparisions, IMHO one should no longer be using S/PDIF (coax or optical toslink) which only has lossy codec transport for multichannel audio. Instead you need to use HDMI (multichannel linear PCM which is lossless, or raw bitstream with new lossless audio codecs). For players that have them, multichannel analog audio outputs can be used.
> 
> In other words, for 5.1 or 7.1 sound and best performance it is best to use a lossless connection and not S/PDIF with legacy lossy DD or dts audio codecs.


That sounds like a great idea but the only device that I own that has HDMI is the output of the OPPO.

I do use Optical for audio from my cable box, my HTPC, my Media Spooler, My OPPO and my SONY ES CDP.

What I need to do eventually is change my receiver but the my Projector also does not have HDMI 

Las


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Lasareath said:


> That sounds like a great idea but the only device that I own that has HDMI is the output of the OPPO.
> 
> I do use Optical for audio from my cable box, my HTPC, my Media Spooler, My OPPO and my SONY ES CDP.
> 
> ...


Does your AVR have 5.1 analog inputs? There are quite a few BD players that have 5.1 or 7.1 analog audio outputs -- but not the PS3.


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

I think the OPPO doesn't do multichannel linear PCM (which is lossless), but most BD or HD DVD players, correct?


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## scott (Dec 11, 2006)

Sooooo.........What's the best?:explode:


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## RollsRoyce (Apr 20, 2006)

Lasareath said:


> That sounds like a great idea but the only device that I own that has HDMI is the output of the OPPO.
> 
> I do use Optical for audio from my cable box, my HTPC, my Media Spooler, My OPPO and my SONY ES CDP.
> 
> ...


There are products available that will allow your projector to work with HDMI (including HDCP). Google "Curt Palme", and you'll be on your way to a solution. My Mitsubishi CRT RPTV doesn't have HDMI or DVI, yet I'm using it with HDMI sources. If you can't find what you need via Google, PM me.:bigsmile:


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## RollsRoyce (Apr 20, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> A noisy drawer caused you to rule the player out? since when does that have an affect on playback of a player?
> For the price of $299 the 1400 is one of the best BluRay players out there. I have had no issues with mine at all.


I haven't had issues with mine, either. But I don't have any of the discs such as "Live Free or Die Hard" that have given some players fits, and my display is 1080i, so my experience probably isn't typical.


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## Wayde (Jun 5, 2006)

The *BEST Blu-ray *player out there now!

Panasonic DMP-BD30K 

I know I've only skimmed this thread but read many of the posts that introduced a new player. This player was mentioned earlier and so was the BD50 which isn't out yet.

I've had no disc compatibility issues with the BD30K and I don't even have the latest firmware update, which fixes an issue with -5db LFE on PCM issue, so I'll need it to watch Casino Royale.

I have tested almost all the BD players available as of a month ago. I would not buy a Samsung player period. 

I've had the BDP-UP5000 and the 1400. Both had compatibility issues with many Blu-ray discs. The 1400 was aggrivatingly slow.

In light of a recent class action suit against Samsung over not fixing older BD players with disc compatibility issues, I would not trust the company. 

Samsung maintains the 5000 will yet support the new lossless codecs but there are issues they have to resolve. According to the official owners thread on the AVSforum there are issues with the chipset used by the 5000, I forget the manufacturer but that could be the issue so, it's possible that Samsung won't be able to fix its problems. 

Discontinuation of the 5000 has already been announced for May when the product will be replaced. Which means the replacement might be out next year sometime.

I would not buy a Samsung player... period. If you own one and it's working good, enjoy, more power to you and I think that's grand. But I don't trust the player that requires a firmware upgrade every time a new Blu-ray disc hits the market.

The Panasonic sends the lossless codecs to my receiver which can decode them (Marantz 8002) and it works perfectly. I am getting the DTS HD MA.

None of the others I tested would pass the lossless codecs via hdmi or decode them. They were also frustratingly slow, except the Pioneer which was a very nice BD player except that it doesn't do the lossless codecs so it's not really an option.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks for the update Wayde... :T


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

My brother also has the Panasonic DMP-BD30K and says it works great.

The BD30K also has a media card reader in it as well.


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2008)

I read a review-actually several on this websites link for shopping on the PANASONIC DMP-BD30. You might find it interesting. I sure did. I am saving up my pennies and chomping at the bit as I research which blu ray player to get.
I know you like the ps3 but how would you compare this panasonic to it?


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi Wayde, I was so happy to read your post today. I had at least one question if you don't mind my ignorance?!!
"The Panasonic sends the lossless codecs to my receiver which can decode them"
What does this mean and if I purchased the Panasonic would I need to know all this stuff to keep up with new releases of BDs? 
Thanks, Ally


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## Guest (Mar 15, 2008)

Hi,
I'm new in these parts and am attempting to research Blu-ray players.
I am leaning toward the Panasonic just mentioned and I could even wait until next year when the 50 comes out.
I had a question from something you posted-
"Its a bitstream player for high rez audio, meaning that you'll need a receiver that can decode the Dolby True HD and DTS Master Audio. The PS3 and the BD50 will internally decode the audio and pass as PCM."
What does PCM stand for? You say the bd50 will "internally" decode the audio-does that mean I don't need to worry about my receiver?
Obviously that's what I'm getting at. My receiver has a dts setting but I'm not sure what "master audio"means.
Thanks for your help-Abby


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

Wambach said:


> "The Panasonic sends the lossless codecs to my receiver which can decode them"
> What does this mean and if I purchased the Panasonic would I need to know all this stuff to keep up with new releases of BDs?
> Thanks, Ally


I think it is bitstream out that is meant here as far as it is the receiver that does the decoding job (just like DVD players send raw data that need a DD or DTS decoder to do the job).
Actually in HD more player do the decoding job and send it as PCM to the receiver but they do not send raw bitstream. But the panasonic offers to bitstream out as well for a receiver to do the job.


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Wambach said:


> What does PCM stand for? You say the bd50 will "internally" decode the audio-does that mean I don't need to worry about my receiver?
> Obviously that's what I'm getting at. My receiver has a dts setting but I'm not sure what "master audio"means.


PCM stands for Pulse Code Modulation. It is a simple lossless format for digitizing audio but does not have any space saving compression at all (it takes the most space to store audio in memory/media). 

There are new audio codecs from Dolby Labs and from dts that will save memory/media space and can encode up to 8 channels of audio on Blu-ray. In the past year and a half, new receivers (AVRs) have come out that use HDMI 1.3 and have the new audio codec decoding capability (DD+, Dolby TrueHD, dts-HD HR and dts-HD MA). TrueHD and dts-HD MA are the best in that they are completely lossless rather than use perceptual lossless encoding like DD+ or dts-HD HR.

So the newer Blu-ray players with raw bitstream audio output on HDMI 1.3 along with a new receiver that has HDMI 1.3 audio bitstream input and the new audio codec decoders can give the best current surround sound playback capability.


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## Wayde (Jun 5, 2006)

" I purchased the Panasonic would I need to know all this stuff to keep up with new releases of BDs? "

Hi Wambach...

No, you shouldn't have to. You should just be confident that your system can playback any audio format you stick into the device. It's getting complicated these days with so many options.

I'll post on this topic in this forum... look for it in just a few minutes. 

*In the market for a Blu-ray player?*


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## imbeaujp (Oct 20, 2007)

What about the Pioneer Elite series ?


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## epereira (May 12, 2008)

Okay, I have to pipe in....I just splurged and bought a Marantz BD8002 player on *bay. These have a MSRP of $2000 and I would never in my right mind even consider spending that much for a Blu-ray player. BUT...with a couple of special deals/coupons, I snagged one for $665 shipped. Now to find out how good it really is  Hopefully it will be here by the weekend!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yeah... let us know. It may be worth starting a dedicated thread on it. I haven't heard much about, but that sounds like a stellar price.


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## epereira (May 12, 2008)

Thanks, Sonnie! I will update the post when I have set it up and tried it out with a few discs. I have to figure out how to fit it in with all the other AV equipment on my TV stand - I might have to look into getting a rack.


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## epereira (May 12, 2008)

My mini-review of the Marantz BD-8002:

I received my Marantz BD-8002 player on Saturday and wasted little time setting it up. It has as solid feel to it - definitely well built! The connections were straightforward - HDMI to my Marantz AV-8003 unit - that's it! The loading tray mechanism is silky smooth and silent - very much the opposite of my Samsung 1400 player that makes the usual motorized sounds. I tried several Bluray discs and all loaded in an average of 30 seconds or so - no glitches. Sound was great but I was not surprised as I was playing the discs through my matched Marantz ensemble. I had to tweak the picture/video settings - it defaults to an "average" black-level and once I changed that the picture was pretty good but perhaps just a tad bit over-saturated. A little more tweaking and it was perfect! The 1080p quality was OUTSTANDING and the movies I watched were breathtaking (Batman Returns, Iron Man, Master and Commander to name a few). I'm a very happy camper!:jump:

Now to play some regular DVDs and check out the upscaling of the highly regarded Realta chip!


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

scott said:


> Sooooo.........What's the best?:explode:


No doubt, for the best value & performance; the Oppo BDP-83 Universal Blu-ray Player. :yes: :T


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