# I'm getting so obsessed with my home theater that I'm thinking about upgrading my receiver after 6 months.



## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

Hello people.

Since I'm on a budget, I picked my receiver and speakers mainly for it's price and not it's features. Finally after 8 months of buying the system piece by piece, I was able to get my surround speakers to complete my actual 5.0 setup. Now that this phase is complete I'm finally listening to all those little details that make a home theater so enjoyable. Recently I was watching Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and the opening battle sounds fantastic with shots from one speaker to another, explosions rumbling all over the place, sounds of changing robots from all speakers. I'm enjoying it so much that I'm getting obsessed about getting all the equipment related to home theater that I find in the net that I think is worth it. This month I plan to get two Dayton Audio SUB-1200 because they are basically the cheapest ones with acceptable performance that will fit my budget. At least according to the reviews I found. I can't wait to listen to that addition.

I was also reading a lot about technologies not present in my system. The most important ones that I found are Audyssey and Minidsp. The promotions I saw about Audyssey make it look so fantastic that I regret that I didn't wait more time so I can pick up a receiver with that feature. But most receivers with Audyssey are so expensive that the receiver alone will cost me about what I paid for my present receiver plus the 5 speakers. I browse a lot and I found what it looks like a nice bargain. I found the Onkyo HT-RC560 for $298 at Walmart.com. That model is the most affordable Audyssey receiver I was able to find. Another nice feature that it has is the ability to set a different crossover point for each speaker and I guess that will make my present speakers sound better than with my Pioneer. How do you think the Onkyo compares to the Pioneer VSX-822-K? I never heard the Onkyo but my Pioneer sounds really good with my speakers and I paid $110 less for it. Will it be worth it to spend that money in a new receiver given the fact that I already have a fairly new receiver able to provide nice sound? Will Audyssey let me equalize each channel individually and manually?

Another alternative I was thinking about is to spend the $300 in the nanoAVR 8x8 instead of the Onkyo receiver. The nano equalizes 7.1 channels in a home theater among other things. It has 10 EQ bands per channel. It seems to me that I will get comparable results to the Auddysey receiver without the need to sell my present receiver to get a new one.

What will you do in my position? Get the receiver or the nano?


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

Welcome to the wonderful world of home theater! I'd go with receiver, with the caveat that many report reliability issues with Onkho. I would also recommend paying as close attention as possible to speaker setup. No room correction software is a substitute for proper speaker setup. Some basic suggestions: your front speakers should be at least a couple of feet away from the front wall. The front 3 speakers should all be the same distance from you (you'll need to measure for this). You'll want to have some space from the sidewalls also, if possible. The surrounds should be slightly behind the listening position and at ear level when standing. Most front speakers will sound better angled slightly toward the listening position. I have found the best position for a subwoofer to be in the corner. At least 2 is best, on opposing corners. Room correction software is most useful for the low-end, and doesn't do much for the high end. You'll get the best results starting with good speaker placement. I've found an over dependence on room correction software on the part of many home theater enthusiasts and not enough attention paid to good positioning. Another suggestion when funds permit is room treatment . GIK acoustics offers a free room analysis which can pay huge sonic benefits in terms of sound quality. You'll never really get the most out of your system without things like bass traps and first reflection panels. Ideally, you want to be setup in a rectangular (as opposed to a square) room, without windows or tile floors and be able to sufficiently darken the room. Most rooms involve some compromise, but the fewer the better. Hope this has been helpful and best of luck!


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

BigLouis1971 said:


> Hello people.
> 
> Since I'm on a budget, I picked my receiver and speakers mainly for it's price and not it's features.
> . . .
> ...


Big Louis,
Welcome to the forum and the nearly incureable disease know as HT/audio upgradeitis!

*However in your case, *with such a new receiver that you already like; *I would use your Pioneer's similar capability* called _*Multi-Channel Acoustic Calibration*_ or *MCACC*. See page 23 of your manual. This is Pioneer's Audessy like capability and should serve you well for the time being (from your post it appeared you have not used it yet, if I am wrong--my apologies).

If I was in your shoes, I would enjoy your system, do further Audessy and AVR research, and use the delay to save towards a future AVR with the complete set of features you desire/need. lddude:

IMHO chasing the next shiny object gets expensive and is not as rewarding as deliberate, comphrehensive upgrades (not that I didn't do the same thing several times when I entered the HT fray) :R

Cheers,
XEagleDriver


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## Lulimet (Apr 4, 2014)

Is the MCACC the same on all Pioneer receivers or is it like Audyssey where you have different levels at different price points? 
If MCACC is the same on all models then I would keep the Pioneer since the Audyssey on that Onkyo is not an advanced version. Instead of buying a new receiver, I recommend you pick up a better sub tha the Dayton in the $400-500 range.
Good luck with your decision. You got the upgrade bug really quick


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The MCACC has different levels too but they are not spelled out like the Audessey branding is.
Read the manual, follow the instructions, and enjoy your sound system for a while.
I have terrible OCD about whatever I am interested in at the moment so I understand where you are at with wanting more/bigger/better/different.
IMO you will be better served by doing nothing for two months except listening to what you have and putting your energy into learning how to optimize your room and speaker positioning.
In that time you will learn what your system really sounds like and where improvements are needed/wanted.
Again IMO you are not going to achieve a night & day difference by swapping AVRs, at best it will be a subtle difference.
Speakers (including subwoofers) are the pieces of equipment that can give you night & day differences.
Electronics can make a difference but unless the electronics being replaced is defective or being over stressed the changes are typically subtle.


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

Lulimet said:


> Is the MCACC the same on all Pioneer receivers or is it like Audyssey where you have different levels at different price points?
> If MCACC is the same on all models then I would keep the Pioneer since the Audyssey on that Onkyo is not an advanced version. Instead of buying a new receiver, I recommend you pick up a better sub tha the Dayton in the $400-500 range.
> Good luck with your decision. You got the upgrade bug really quick


MCACC have different levels for different price points just like Audyssey. My version of MCACC must be one of the most basics because I was following a post instructing about how to setup MCAAC and they mentioned a lot of settings I don't have in my model. That's one of the reasons that is making me think about upgrading. At the time I got the receiver I thought it'll keep me satisfied but now I'm not that convinced about that. Do you think that a better receiver will give me better sound keeping my present speakers?


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

chashint said:


> The MCACC has different levels too but they are not spelled out like the Audessey branding is.
> Read the manual, follow the instructions, and enjoy your sound system for a while.
> I have terrible OCD about whatever I am interested in at the moment so I understand where you are at with wanting more/bigger/better/different.
> IMO you will be better served by doing nothing for two months except listening to what you have and putting your energy into learning how to optimize your room and speaker positioning.
> ...


I think I'll take your advise and be quiet for a while because the system sounds good to me. Is just that now that I have seen for myself the features that it has and I compare them to the features of the more expensive ones I realized that I picked a pretty basic model and I regret that I didn't save more to get a better one at the time I was picking that piece of the home theater.


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

I think I'll drop the idea of getting two Dayton Audio SUB-1200 and save for a real sub-woofer. I'm happy with the Polk Monitor40s and the CS1 so I'm not thinking about upgrading them for now. What do you think it'll be better, two NXG NX-BAS-500 or one SVS PB-1000. They will cost me about the same but I'll have two subs if I decide for the NXGs vs one if I pick the SVS.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Welcome aboard! Try looking at one of our sponsors, A4Less. Really good prices on Denon refurbs.

https://www.accessories4less.com/index.php

You can purchace a 5 year extended warranty for $50. This is longer than the new, factory warranty which, to me, makes it a no-brainer.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

There is no reason to regret buying what you can afford.
The gear you picked is perfectly fine gear and competes very favorably in its price bracket.
Assuming you got the stuff for typical street price (on sale at newegg) you have done well for yourself. 
Use this gear to learn with and be in no hurry to upgrade anything just yet.
Learn the strengths and weaknesses of the gear and the room it's in.

Are you in an apartment or a house?
Real subwoofers are not exactly apartment friendly.


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

chashint said:


> There is no reason to regret buying what you can afford.
> The gear you picked is perfectly fine gear and competes very favorably in its price bracket.
> Assuming you got the stuff for typical street price (on sale at newegg) you have done well for yourself.
> Use this gear to learn with and be in no hurry to upgrade anything just yet.
> ...


I'm in an apt. and I received complaints. I promised to put the volume down and got away with that. Is just that I wanna hear what I'm missing because the Monitor40s don't do deep enough. Will it be worth it to get a sub to listen to it at medium levels?


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

If you are getting complaints with no/low budget sub you *will definitely have problems with anything more substantial*. 
- Try one of *these* to help isolate the sub from the structure--it helped immensly to reduce low freq propagation from my upstairs HT to the rest of a std frame construction home. YMMV.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

chashint said:


> There is no reason to regret buying what you can afford. The gear you picked is perfectly fine gear and competes very favorably in its price bracket. Assuming you got the stuff for typical street price (on sale at newegg) you have done well for yourself. Use this gear to learn with and be in no hurry to upgrade anything just yet. Learn the strengths and weaknesses of the gear and the room it's in. Are you in an apartment or a house? Real subwoofers are not exactly apartment friendly.


This is good advice. By really paying attention, you'll better be able to know why you want to upgrade what, and why it makes sense to do so. As opposed to merely checking off boxes of certain features. I have a pioneer 1019ahk with mcacc. While I like how audyssey treated my room better, mcacc is very powerful. I also like that mcacc allows presets. Very useful for building a house curve for music, and flattening for movies, on the fly. (Or vice versa) As chashint said, your more tangible improvements come from better speakers and subs. Electronics will return better performance, but usually by way of power/dynamics, and better EQ resolution.


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

XEagleDriver said:


> If you are getting complaints with no/low budget sub you *will definitely have problems with anything more substantial*.
> - Try one of *these* to help isolate the sub from the structure--it helped immensly to reduce low freq propagation from my upstairs HT to the rest of a std frame construction home. YMMV.
> 
> Cheers,
> XEagleDriver


Thanks, I didn't even knew such things exist. They seem quite useful.


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

Should I just put the sub over that?


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

Is there something like that for the Monitor40s?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Can you give us a picture of your current setup...its worth a 1000 words


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

Andre said:


> Can you give us a picture of your current setup...its worth a 1000 words


I can post some pics but it'll be better tomorrow or the day after. Can you keep following the thread until tomorrow?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I get an email everytime somebody will post..


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

Nice, then I'll do my best to post them tomorrow.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Apartments are tough and isolation devices like the sub-dude may help some, but the lower you go down in frequency the more the sound travels through the structure.
Decoupling from the floor won't solve everything.

Good headphones are a great way to scratch your audio itch and keep peace with the neighbors. 
I use them at night after wifey has gone to bed so I don't disturb her sleep.


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

BigLouis1971 said:


> Is there something like that for the Monitor40s?


Yes to both your ?s. 
For the sub, be sure and buy the size that is big enough for your sub now and/or the one you plan to upgrade too in the future.
For the monitors, they angle the speakers down a bit, but this can be modified with a sharp knife.

XEagleDriver


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## BigLouis1971 (Jul 28, 2014)

chashint said:


> Apartments are tough and isolation devices like the sub-dude may help some, but the lower you go down in frequency the more the sound travels through the structure.
> Decoupling from the floor won't solve everything.
> 
> Good headphones are a great way to scratch your audio itch and keep peace with the neighbors.
> I use them at night after wifey has gone to bed so I don't disturb her sleep.


Is there any good headphone with surround effect?


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I have been very satisfied with these http://en-us.sennheiser.com/best-audio-headphones-high-end-stereo-hifi-hd-600 
Obviously listening to headphones is different than listening to speakers, both are rewarding in their own right.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I find that many closed back headphones are inherently surround sound, the sound being so close to your ear that your brain just hears a quasi surround sound, sure its not 5.1/7.1 but its close. Now if you want 5.1 or 7.1 from headphones you’re going to have to do the HTPC route and get some gaming headphones. In my HT have a HTPC that I have used with a pair of Corsair gaming headphones (7.1). I also have a pair of wireless headphones in the living room which are Sennheiser RS 160. I am not a fan of buying headphones without trying them on, what is comfortable for one person may be out of the question for another. I for example want a padded headband and a fabric ear cup


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## Rick R (Dec 3, 2013)

BigLouis1971 said:


> Hello people.
> 
> Since I'm on a budget, I picked my receiver and speakers mainly for it's price and not it's features. Finally after 8 months of buying the system piece by piece, I was able to get my surround speakers to complete my actual 5.0 setup. Now that this phase is complete I'm finally listening to all those little details that make a home theater so enjoyable. Recently I was watching Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen and the opening battle sounds fantastic with shots from one speaker to another, explosions rumbling all over the place, sounds of changing robots from all speakers. I'm enjoying it so much that I'm getting obsessed about getting all the equipment related to home theater that I find in the net that I think is worth it. This month I plan to get two Dayton Audio SUB-1200 because they are basically the cheapest ones with acceptable performance that will fit my budget. At least according to the reviews I found. I can't wait to listen to that addition.
> 
> ...


First there has been some really good advice given in this thread.
I have some knowledge of Pioneer AVR's and although the unit you have bought may look basic it is in fact quite comprehensive and an excellent budget model, much better than many. Decent and satisfactory power output and lots of modern technology and features for the price. Yes the 5 band MCACC is not the same as the upper end models which have a 9 band equaliser and six memories, but it is a lot better than nothing and will do the job it also has phase equalisation which is a nice feature. I think to stick with this unit just now is the good advice that has been given and optimize speaker layouts and get familiar with your home theatre. We all go through it, this it is a real disease, but browse this forum for all the information you can get and save for your ideal system in the future. Most important of all take time to familiarise yourself with your current system to see what you like and dislike and then go out and audition lots of speakers and AVR's, price does not necessarily make it the best, only your ears and eyes can tell that and a slightly cheaper AVR from a different manufacturer may be far more satisfying than some exotic monster that you need a second mortgage for. A good example of this is Oppo a mid priced bluray player that will out perform models at three times the price I was so impressed I have two :coocoo:

Earphones yes I agree with what has been said, but I am biased with Sennheiser having just given my son my 560 Ovation ll, old but really good and little used and now have Sennheiser RS180 wireless units. But I also have some Sony (not using bad language, honest :bigsmile::dumbcrazy MDR-RF4000K wireless units with sealed backs which are surprisingly good that I use for late night listening in bed, deep clean bass, good treble and an excellent sound stage hard to get hold of now but still available, the rechargeable batteries are the usual Sony speciality but can be got on ebay for a few dollars and then use the original adaptor with standard ni mh rechargeable batteries (joined in the middle by small plastic welds) cut carefully through with a sharp knife pull apart, put in new batteries and wrap a piece of magic tape to hold them together, job done :T


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