# Listening mode to choose



## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

I have an Onkyo R391 and for the past 2 years, I have set it to 'direct.' As of lately, I have been tempted to set it to something that will produce me a better sound. I am not really sure of what I am looking for since I am not an expert with audio, but I do want to make sure that I have things set to the best possible settings.

With my Onkyo, I have a PS4 and digital cable. Both are set to output in 'direct.' 

The PS4 is set to LPCM, so that it sends lossless audio to the Onkyo, which then outputs the audio 'direct' to my 5.1 setup. It seems that all audio sources are working great and I am receiving surround sound.

My digital cable seems to be sending the correct audio to my Onkyo which is outputting 'direct' to my speakers.

I have read posts saying that I shouldn't use 'direct' because there are better options, but I don't really understand why I wouldn't want 'direct' because it seems to take any source and output it correctly.

Also, I have read that I should set my PS4 to bitstream since my Onkyo would then do the processing (just like my receiver does when I'm watching digital cable). My concern with bitstream vs LPCM is that if I set it to bitstream, then different audio sources will be sent to my Onkyo, rather than just one source (LPCM). So of it is bitstream, do I leave my Onkyo set to 'direct' or do I set it to something else?

Any help would be much appreciated and I'm sorry if I sound like I have no idea of what I'm taking about... cause I really don't.

Thanks


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Well, maybe we'll both learn something as I always thought I got better sound by using Direct with my Denon as well. I thought Neo 6, Pro Logic, PLIIx et al. just took a stereo signal and attempted to split it into a 5.1, 6.1 or 7.1 whereas Direct mode passes whatever signal comes from your source, through your receiver and out to the speakers without any additional processing.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Direct mode is indeed what you want if you don't want additional processing applied to the signal. At one time I used THX Cinema while watching movies but long ago switched to direct so that I could enjoy my movies as the director intended.


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## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

That is what I figured about direct. Since it is taking the signal and not doing anything with it, that should mean it is being presented how it was meant to be.

Does anyone know if I should keep my ps4 set to linear pcm or should I be using bitstream?

With linear pcm, I believe that the ps4 is doing the processing and sending lossless audio to my receiver. With bitstream, I think that the ps4 does nothing but sends the audio to the receiver for the receiver to process.

Although it seems like it makes sense to let a receiver so the processing, I have heard that in this case, bitstream won't allow for lossless audio like linear pcm would even though it's the ps4 doing the processing


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

JBrax said:


> Direct mode is indeed what you want if you don't want additional processing applied to the signal. At one time I used THX Cinema while watching movies but long ago switched to direct so that I could enjoy my movies as the director intended.





fviola said:


> That is what I figured about direct. Since it is taking the signal and not doing anything with it, that should mean it is being presented how it was meant to be.


Not necessarily. The director cannot have known about your equipment and room acoustics. By going Direct, you toss aside the technology that you paid for. In the case of most Denons, that means room correction (Audyssey). In all cases, it means that any bass management (absolutely necessary if your main speakers are less than large and full-range). Don't get fooled by audiophile affectations: Those functions are there to make it sound better and, by extension, closer to what the director intended.


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## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

Then am I correct to assume that if I don't use direct, I will need to change my listening mode each time I have a different audio signal?

With direct if I get a 2.1 or 5.1 signal, it is output as 2.1 or 5.1. If I choose something other than direct, won't I have to choose a different mode depending on each different signal I choose?


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Not necessarily. The director cannot have known about your equipment and room acoustics. By going Direct, you toss aside the technology that you paid for. In the case of most Denons, that means room correction (Audyssey). In all cases, it means that any bass management (absolutely necessary if your main speakers are less than large and full-range). Don't get fooled by audiophile affectations: Those functions are there to make it sound better and, by extension, closer to what the director intended.


Audyssey is applied as well as Reference EQ while my AVR is playing both music and movies. Unless I'm mixing up direct with through on my settings but I do know I'm enjoying the benefits of Audyssey.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Clear as mud, right! In the end it is all about what sounds good to you. I have tried various DSP modes throughout the years. It seems that, depending on my mood...some DSP modes sound "better" one day, and "less than stellar" the next. So the answer, best I can figure, it to be open to the fact that we like different sounds on different days & to just try out the different modes as you please. That's what I do.
Some of the modes I have never cared for & never give them a chance.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I do have a "pure audio" setting on my Onkyo that removes Audyssey processing and I've never personally cared for it.


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## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

I am still so confused though.

My ps4 has two options: linear pcm and bitstream

If I choose linear pcm, I need to set my receiver to direct so that I get my surround sound to work. There are no options for DD or DTS on my receiver since it is a LPCM signal.

If I choose to use bitstream on the ps4, I can choose between two bitsream options: Dolby or DTS. If I choose one or the other, those options become available on my receiver since the signal is now Dolby or DTS.

So is it safe to assume that when using my PS4, I should 1. use LPCM with my receiver set to Direct or 2. Use either bitstream option with my receiver set accordingly.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Give me a second and I'll go check my settings.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Ok, this is how I have mine setup. PS4-Linear PCM and Onkyo-Direct. This allows the AVR to do the processing and Audyssey settings remain intact.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Also by having it setup this way your receiver should display the source audio such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD MasterAudio.


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## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

Thanks for the info

My ps4 is set to linear PCM and my onkyo is direct, but my display says lpcm


If I go into my onkyo menu and choose info, it says that my input is multichannel pcm 5.1 with output being direct 5.1. 

If I set my ps4 to bitstream, then both the info screen and the front display shows DD or DTS

I do not have audyssey, could this be the reason DD or DTS it is not displayed when I selected LPCM? 

I don't really care if it is displayed or not, just want to make sure everything is working properly.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I always use LPCM in my ps3. One of the (OCD) benefits is you can hear the button/menu sounds when you navigate. If your AVR decodes the signal, many times you lose this(does it matter?), but more importantly you can lose director commentary soundtracks too. It also means your AVR won't display"DTSHDMA" for example. It will say"multichannel" For me, this means on my onkyo, I select "multichannel". This uses audyssey, but not the tone controls. Set your receiver to "auto", and it will select the playback mode for you. IE: if it detects a 5/7.1 soundtrack, it will play that, with audyssey. If it detects a stereo(DD, or stereo DD) it will playback a PLII version. In my case EX. I don't have to switch anything. This is my understanding: Direct mode is for "direct" playback of a soundtrack with the absolute least amount of processing. That's the whole point. Pure audio goes further by turning off the video processing, and the display panel. "Multichannel" is like direct with audyssey engaged.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

The only processing I want while watching a movie is Audyssey and while in direct mode it's still employed.


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## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

PS4 has two different audio settings. There is one for blu rays and one for everything else.

It seems that the best way to go about it is seeing the main setting to lpcm and the blu ray setting to bitstream


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

fviola said:


> PS4 has two different audio settings. There is one for blu rays and one for everything else. It seems that the best way to go about it is seeing the main setting to lpcm and the blu ray setting to bitstream


I would not set to bitstream. This is a preference thing however. I don't care if my AVR display says what soundtrack is playing since I always go into the disk menu to make sure it's playing the appropriate 5/7.1 track. In this case the display says multichannel. For me the only benefit to choosing "bitstream" is so the AVR says DD, DTSHDMA, etc.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Straight decode is actually the setting I have on my AVR. I'm sorry for the confusion for some reason I had direct in my head.


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## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> I would not set to bitstream. This is a preference thing however. I don't care if my AVR display says what soundtrack is playing since I always go into the disk menu to make sure it's playing the appropriate 5/7.1 track. In this case the display says multichannel. For me the only benefit to choosing "bitstream" is so the AVR says DD, DTSHDMA, etc.



I put in The Avengers blu ray and selected bitstream, I and my girlfriend immediately noticed a much richer sound than when linear pcm was selected.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Kal, 
So now I'm curious as to how my sub gets bass if Direct mode by-passes bass management? I currently use an older Denon 3805 and have my mains set to Large. If set to large and there is no LFE track where does the signal come from? I assume I get the bass due to LFE+MAIN setting but what exactly is sent to the sub?

Another thing is while in Direct or Pure Direct it does not seem to affect the room eq function. I would have assumed that it would have been similar to Audyssey in that it would have been by-passed in those modes but it is not.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

The direct mode I was eluding to is actually within the video settings on my Onkyo. Sorry it's been so long and I'm a set it and forget kind of guy.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

fviola said:


> I put in The Avengers blu ray and selected bitstream, I and my girlfriend immediately noticed a much richer sound than when linear pcm was selected.


This is interesting. I would suspect its a setting for EQ/disableEQ based on input signal. The soundtrack is exactly the same. Maybe you have your AVR set so when it sees a bitstream it goes to a sound mode like "movie", and when it sees a PCM it defaults to "news" sound mode. The soundtrack doesn't change. Only how it's handled in the AVR.


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## fviola (Oct 1, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> This is interesting. I would suspect its a setting for EQ/disableEQ based on input signal. The soundtrack is exactly the same. Maybe you have your AVR set so when it sees a bitstream it goes to a sound mode like "movie", and when it sees a PCM it defaults to "news" sound mode. The soundtrack doesn't change. Only how it's handled in the AVR.


My onkyo isn't all that special, I'm pretty sure it's a low end model.

From what I have gathered from the internet and from playing around with settings, I think the best setting for it are:

PS4 main setting: LPCM
Onkyo setting: multichannel

PS4 blu ray setting: bitstream direct
Onkyo setting: whatever format is inputted (Dolby, DTS, etc.)

I used to leave everything at linear pcm with my onkyo at direct... This way no matter what I was getting surround sound when it was available.

After researching, I found that if I am using a LPCM signal from the ps4, id want the onkyo to use a multichannel PCM setting... This makes sense

And if I am using bitstream, I'd want the onkyo to use whatever is being inputted.. And luckily, it seems that my onkyo automatically chooses the correct Dolby, DTS, etc. when it detects the bitstream signal being used

I don't know what causes the richer sound for my blu rays when set to bitstream, but it seems to work well

Basically, I just don't want to have to constantly set my onkyo to the correct audio setting.. Which is why I used lpcm for everything with direct for everything... But this new setup seems to be better quality with also not having to change the onkyo settings


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

fviola said:


> My onkyo isn't all that special, I'm pretty sure it's a low end model. From what I have gathered from the internet and from playing around with settings, I think the best setting for it are: PS4 main setting: LPCM Onkyo setting: multichannel PS4 blu ray setting: bitstream direct Onkyo setting: whatever format is inputted (Dolby, DTS, etc.) I used to leave everything at linear pcm with my onkyo at direct... This way no matter what I was getting surround sound when it was available. After researching, I found that if I am using a LPCM signal from the ps4, id want the onkyo to use a multichannel PCM setting... This makes sense And if I am using bitstream, I'd want the onkyo to use whatever is being inputted.. And luckily, it seems that my onkyo automatically chooses the correct Dolby, DTS, etc. when it detects the bitstream signal being used I don't know what causes the richer sound for my blu rays when set to bitstream, but it seems to work well Basically, I just don't want to have to constantly set my onkyo to the correct audio setting.. Which is why I used lpcm for everything with direct for everything... But this new setup seems to be better quality with also not having to change the onkyo settings


If it's workin, run with it. I also hate switching stuff all the time. Like jbrax said, set it and forget it! I prefer the consistency, and if I'm tweaking stuff all the time, I might not know exactly why something might be off. Still not sure why your experiencing such a difference between PCM/bitstream, but if it's doing what you want, go with it.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

JBrax said:


> The direct mode I was eluding to is actually within the video settings on my Onkyo. Sorry it's been so long and I'm a set it and forget kind of guy.


Thanx for clarifying. ...got to revisit my owners manual anyway!


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## klnglim (May 12, 2014)

If you don't want do any adjustment with your amp.:
1) set it to "Direct" if you are using subwoofer
2) set all speaker to small and LFE to Subwoofer
3) All Bluray player, PS3 and PS4 set to bitstream, so let the amp. process the sound (you'll feel the sound more dynamic)


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## JACKIEGAGA (Dec 4, 2011)

Do you guys let the receiver Auto decode sound format or it is more of a personal preference for watching DIRECTV?
I have a Marantz 1506.


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## Bretcoe (Dec 22, 2015)

This a great conversation! 

Source: OPPO bdp103
Source: PS4
Source: DirecTV Genie
Avr: marantz 5007
Connections: HDMI

I can't find good info on audio transfer selection from the source to the AVR.

PCM or Bitsream? 
With specific types of bitstreams sometimes optioned as well, but one question at a time.

Can anyone help me understand this choice? 

I have everything set to send PCM currently, as I understand that to be the raw data type, with zero loss. This then allows the data to be sent in it's raw form, fast and with no loss, to the AVR to be coded into whichever format the data allows (Dolby true, master, dts,...), and apply the Audyssey settings, AND the LFE info.

But, the DAC in the OPPO is most likely better than the one in my marantz, do I'd set that to send bitstream... If I'm understanding this. But would I lose the Audyssey and LFE settings from the AVR then?


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## xyzzy (Apr 5, 2012)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Not necessarily. The director cannot have known about your equipment and room acoustics. By going Direct, you toss aside the technology that you paid for. In the case of most Denons, that means room correction (Audyssey). In all cases, it means that any bass management (absolutely necessary if your main speakers are less than large and full-range). Don't get fooled by audiophile affectations: Those functions are there to make it sound better and, by extension, closer to what the director intended.


All of that "technology" is useless. Audyssey does more harm than any good. This assumes, of course, you are actually carefully listening to sound/music reproduced from your system rather than doing starry-eyed reading of their marketing text.

Antiseptic and thin sound when audussey is applied using the cheapo uncalibrated mike seems to impress the simplistic and makes them happy something happened after they "did it".

Anthem is the only avr I'm come across that has a good calibration system and it aint audyssey.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

xyzzy said:


> All of that "technology" is useless. Audyssey does more harm than any good. This assumes, of course, you are actually carefully listening to sound/music reproduced from your system rather than doing starry-eyed reading of their marketing text.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Then your choice is simple. OTOH, I have used almost every system out there and done a direct comparison between Audyssey XT (on the old SEQ, not even XT32) and ARC: it was a standoff. Others, like Dirac, DEQX, Trinnov, etc. can do even better.


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## FargateOne (Mar 3, 2015)

Bretcoe said:


> This a great conversation!
> 
> Source: OPPO bdp103
> Source: PS4
> ...


I spent a lot of time to find my way about all this. I am not a pro so I hesitated to add my little contribution here. Do not hesitate to correct me if it must.
Maybe I am wrong, but, my understanding of the theory is the following:

Bitstream is compressed signal so it needs to be uncompressed and decoded somewhere, usually in the receiver. It is the reason why the osd menu of the receiver displays "Dolby Digital or TrueHD etc" when the decoding is done in the receiver.

LPCM is the result of uncompressing of the coded signal. Analog outputs for the speakers need electricity (instead of bit 0 and 1) and to change bits in electricity the processors use LPCM to know what signals to send in each of the 5.1 or 7.1 channels.

When I set my bd player to LPCM, it decodes itself the Dolby Digital or TRUE-HD signal in uncompressed train of bits to the receiver which then display "MULTICHANNEL input" in the OSD menu. The receiver take the result as is but after the receiver received LPCM signals (or after it has decoded the bitsteam of bits),the receiver continue to bass manage (distances and crossover to the sub etc) and to EQ all the channels (Audyssey YPAO REW filters settings for frequencies corrections) before to translate all the kit in electrical signal for the analog outputs.

Pure direct bypass all the process between the LPCM and the analog.

...as you see my english is in coded compress signal !!


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## klnglim (May 12, 2014)

make it simple, trust your own ears, music and movies always sound better after equalize or processs, let the receiver does its job


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