# 80k for a building



## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

So, I've got some funding in the works...My question is, do you think that 80k is enough for
a studio? I'm talking building only and acoustics...Part of me feels like it may not be enough.

I'm looking to make it 1200-1500 sqft. Mainly having a tracking room and monitoring room.

I think it could be done however I'm not totally sure. Maybe 150k would be even better, if anyone
can recommend me some studio designers to look into so I could also talk to them, I would
totally appreciate that as well.


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## maikol (Nov 7, 2008)

Hi

Mmm I'm afraid 80000 is not enough if you want it first class...
I think you can pretty much double (at least!) your budget if you want to have everything done perfectly.

Do you plan to do things by yourself?


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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

nope, I plan to have it done by professionals because it will be done right of course.

Personally, for me, all I need is a tracking room and a monitoring/mixing room. I don't particularly need 3-4 rooms.

If any of you know of any studio designers I could talk to, I may be able to get some more money out of this.

I also posted a thread over at GS to see if I could scrounge some info out of some people


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## jonathanm (Mar 24, 2010)

Josh, can you be more specific about what you need? It's pretty difficult to say otherwise....

If you already have somewhere in mind, or a building that just needs converted, or a piece of land you can build on....

If for example you were thinking of building somewhere at the bottom of your yard, and you were prepared to take on a lot of work yourself...then you could get something good going on for that amount of money. 

Or if you already had a building or were renting somewhere...

You're not gonna get a top of the line space, but something usable and professional, certainly..Anyway there's no point in building a top of the line space unless you've got top of the line gear to fill it with, staff to run it and top of the line clients to pay for it....

If you need to buy land or a building, it's not gonna get you very far, unless you want a studio deep in the heart of rural North Dakota.....:nono:


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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

jonathanm said:


> Josh, can you be more specific about what you need? It's pretty difficult to say otherwise....
> 
> If you already have somewhere in mind, or a building that just needs converted, or a piece of land you can build on....
> 
> ...



Well...I won't be paying for the building and the gear is going to be pretty good. I will mostly be paying for the land. I plan on re-locating also, so that's another factor, I know.

I plan to have an SSL AWS 900+ SE and start out with some 1176s and some A-designs stuff and build up my gear collection as time goes on. personally, I don't need a ton of outboard gear though. Just outboard comps and effects really.

I'll be running _everything_ myself also and will probably bring in someone else to help set up mics and such.

I'll basically be starting from a blank slate because I believe that's the best way to go.


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## jonathanm (Mar 24, 2010)

Well you know that real estate people say the three most important factors are, in order: location, location, location....

Doubly so when starting a business, and double it again for a studio business. Once you know some likely locations for your studio, you can check out prices of real estate. 80k wouldn't buy you a parking space in many cities, but could get you a few acres and some buildings in more remote locations.

But you've got to know your market too - A remote location might be a plus to some clients, but a minus to most others.

And even if you plan to run everything yourself, by the time you get your building, your SSL, and all the other things that go into it, you're several hundred $k in - you need staff and clients if you're gonna run a place like that profitably.

My little pipe dream is to build a budget residential studio in the Pyrenees where property and living costs are cheap, and do package deals for bands recording demos or albums....I reckon 1-200k euro for the property, 50k for the gear, and it would still be a budget studio...


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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

Like I said, I'm still doing all that research. I want it at least 15-20 minutes away from a populated area. I'm going to try and find a spot near a place that's similar to downtown Austin. Live venues and such that aren't too far away. It would cater to both parties of musicians.

I can guarantee you I won't need anyone else to help me run anything. I've got enough business experience to be able to handle all booking, accounting and whatnot on my own. I'm a penny pincher which helps me a lot also. I don't plan to have a studio a,b and c like a lot of other places either. A control room and a tracking room with a bathroom and main office/relaxation area are all i really need. Possibly a closet for stuff also.

I've found some areas in the 80k range already. Not near what I'm looking for though. So I'll still have to search around. I really just wanted to get opinions on building only. I've pretty much got everything else figured out...22 page business plan of win is what's getting me all this >_>


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## jonathanm (Mar 24, 2010)

ok, so what type of construction are you thinking about?

Is it likely to be in a built up area? What level of soundproofing/isolation will you need? Floating floor? HVAC? These things have a huge bearing on the cost to build.....


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## maikol (Nov 7, 2008)

There is a pretty interesting blog on the proaudioeurope (funkyjunk uk) website. The owner has had his studio built, and shares a lot of details.

He started with the will to spend not more than 60k GBP for all the works and materials. The guy is not new in the audio industry, and knows alot of people, so he's probably good at getting the best prices.
However, he went 200% overbudget!

(Though his place has also a B studio, which of course takes the price up)

Whatever you plan, looks like you always end up spending at least 100-150% more! :spend:


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## ejbragg (Dec 13, 2009)

Hi, Guys, late to this thread...

Hey, Josh. I and 3 business partners (my wife included) remodeled a commercial building a few years ago for a small commercial studio space. After using in the space (and dealing with the pitfalls of pre-constructed space), I learned a few valuable lessons.

Lately, my wife and I broke off to build from scratch. We just finished construction. The building is about 4000 sq ft - however, only 1800 sq ft is for the studio. Here is the summary of what we spent and where it went - note that I took on the job of general contractor, so I saved us about 20%:

The building cost us about $450,000 - I estimate $540,000 if we hired a builder.
That's about $135 per square foot: Your space -> 1500 sq ft ~ $202,500.
This includes all materials, labor, and major appliances; not studio gear

Some specs:
---------------

Brick & stone structure over wood frame
10-12 inch concrete foundation, with post tension strands
Very hefty windows and exterior doors
6 inch exterior walls
Double-framed walls around control and drum rooms (1 ft)
cellulose blow-in insulation
Double layered 5/8" drywall ceilings and walls
2-1/4" floating concrete floors, embedded with hot water tube heating, covered with wood.
Toroidal isolation transformers
23KW natural gas generator
-------------------------------

Some notes to ponder:

Our property is in Oklahoma, one of the cheapest places to live in America! Better raise the price another 20% (?) for Austin. (Check the "cost of living" statistics out on the web somewhere for a better indication of the difference in housing - which should translate to the cost of building them.)
If you hire professionals that are in this particular field, it may cost even more, and there's still no guarantee they will do everything you expect. Whether you go this route or not, you still ought to be prepared to take your time going through every little detail, getting it all documented and signed! Furthermore, try not to assume that the contractor(s) understood your instructions correctly. I would check _everything_. Then I'd check it again! I hate to say it, but one of my biggest faults was trusting them too much. Watch them closely, if you can, no matter how good they are, if simply for the peace of mind that they correctly translated what you wanted.
You've probably done it, but all of the studio wiring should be very carefully planned before beginning construction. Even the signal paths. There is a tendency is to put it off until you get there, but I wouldn't advise it! If you can decide now all the details, you'll be so glad you did, later, even if something changes. During the construction process with contractors, the world moves very fast. You _will be_ met with challenges and will need your extra time to figure out a way around them.
Suggestion: put large (2-1/2" or larger) flex conduit in the walls wherever the signal path is to go, especially from behind the control desk area. I added more, straight through the ceiling to eliminate any "oops, I wish I ran some cable to THAT room from here" problems. If you run conduit to the ceiling and terminate it in the attic in EVERY ROOM, you can later run any cable to any room you like. I was generous with the diameter and later found it to be a blessing! (You might also remember not to try pulling cable through this stuff on hot, muggy, sticky days! - but DO use cable grease for those long runs, especially in flex cable, which tends to be sticky, anyway.)


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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

What do those of you who currently own a studio pay a month for expenses? I'm talking mainly in terms of major bills like electricity, etc? is it greater than or less than 4k a month? Maybe I'm batting too far out, but I've been asked that question and need a round estimate.


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## ejbragg (Dec 13, 2009)

Our electrical bill is a little higher than when the studio is not running - probably about $50 / month more. Really not a lot more.

Most consumption will be in the HVAC or water heating, just like any home. Because of the thick walls w/ insulation, our overall heating and cooling is actually less than the average apartment. Insulation is 6 inches in the outer walls (cellulose), and we put in 18 inches in the ceiling! Our heat bill for the whole place was about $200 / month this past winter. The air conditioning is roughly the same in mid summer - but we're using a heat pump system.

All in all, the electrical consumption of our gear is really not nearly the amount used by the major appliances of an average house... at least not in OUR case.


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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

I kinda figured 200 for hvac myself. I know I'll spend a portion on advertising as well, probably between 400 and 600 a month or so. Just depends, really.

Could you give me a round estimate of total cost per month for running your studio? Like I said, I want to figure out if 4k a month is an overshoot or not lol.


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## maikol (Nov 7, 2008)

AstralPlaneStudios said:


> What do those of you who currently own a studio pay a month for expenses? I'm talking mainly in terms of major bills like electricity, etc? is it greater than or less than 4k a month? Maybe I'm batting too far out, but I've been asked that question and need a round estimate.


We are around 3500€ per month (including rent, loan, electricity and phone bills,...).

It is mainly a mixing room, so the place is not very big. Electricity is around 200€ per month on average (heating is electrical also).


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## ejbragg (Dec 13, 2009)

That sounds about right. Our expense runs about $2500 for the studio expenses, but we own the building (so "rent" is lower) and equipment is paid for. Add ongoing purchases like drinks, toilet paper, paper, pencils, printer ink occasional software upgrades... Let's make it about $3000.


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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

ejbragg said:


> That sounds about right. Our expense runs about $2500 for the studio expenses, but we own the building (so "rent" is lower) and equipment is paid for. Add ongoing purchases like drinks, toilet paper, paper, pencils, printer ink occasional software upgrades... Let's make it about $3000.


That's what I figured out also after talking with my grandpa cause he owns a business and whatnot and he knows a lot. So that's what I've arrived at myself. .

Thanks guys.


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## ejbragg (Dec 13, 2009)

Hey, bud, one more thing...

About advertising,

I heard people say, when I entered the studio business that word of mouth is the most effective way to get business in this field. After spending a LOT of money and time on radio ads, bilboards, etc., I have decided that these people are absolutely right! The problem is, the masses don't want or need recording studios. If you're trying to drum up business from "businesses", such as corporate videos, etc. you really have to get yourself ready (brochures, portfolios, etc.) and visit them yourself. The single most effective advertisement is a client who has been impressed by your work. But the best single item to blow money on is business cards. Keep them in your car, keep them in your pocket, drop them off at music stores, etc. If someone asks you about your work, give them a card. If they compliment you, give them a card. If they ask you for a card, give them two! They're cheap, so don't be stingy with business cards.

You probably knew all this, but my experience is, this is so true, and it really the only effective means through which our business has grown.


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## maikol (Nov 7, 2008)

I completely agree with Eric, the only advertising that works is word of mouth.

I'd also add that it can be in good and in bad sense ; don't forget the 5-25 rule :

Someone that is very happy with your work will tell 5 people about it,
whereas someone unhappy will tell 25 people!


Really have to have those business card done, though...:duh:


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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

I know, but there are other avenues that work just as well IMO.


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## Darnstrat (Jan 9, 2010)

AstralPlaneStudios said:


> So, I've got some funding in the works...My question is, do you think that 80k is enough for
> a studio? I'm talking building only and acoustics...Part of me feels like it may not be enough.
> 
> I'm looking to make it 1200-1500 sqft. Mainly having a tracking room and monitoring room.
> ...


Obviously, you have some business exposure.. a couple of things:

+1 on the word of mouth.
Get all over Facebook and Myspace. (you can buy VERY targeted ads for a little $$). TV is a waste of time in the recording business.
Once you calculate all of your intended building and outfitting expenses, double it.
I'd suggest you take a visit to 

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Walters-Storyk-Design-Group-WSDG/68418963019?ref=ts 

.... Walters-Storyk is one of the best in the world and you might get some good tips from the people who post there.

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Amazon.com: Sound Studio Construction on a Budget (9780070213821): F. Alton Everest: [email protected]@[email protected]@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/[email protected]@[email protected]@516ARVRM5HL
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## immortalgropher (Feb 16, 2010)

I've got all that stuff and don't plan to do any TV stuff. I've got a medium twitter following also. When I get some more income, fb,myspace and google ppc is going to happen quite fast.


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## ejbragg (Dec 13, 2009)

I do get some exposure on Facebook, as well. I've had a business page set up out there for about 4 months. Facebook business pages are okay, but they lack some exposure to your main page. MySpace might be better for exposure - it's just a little more difficult to update.

As technology advances, the internet will certainly come up with more advanced ways to get your name out, for sure!

Still, I've had the most success landing actual business contracts by conversing face-to-face. The business card is really just a reminder of that conversation they had with me... gives them something tangible to hold, look upon, and contemplate. Reminds them that their _dream_ is just a phone call away!! :bigsmile:


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## biigniick (Jan 26, 2010)

i don't think $80k will not be enough. . .



ejbragg said:


> You've probably done it, but all of the studio wiring should be very carefully planned before beginning construction. Even the signal paths. There is a tendency is to put it off until you get there, but I wouldn't advise it! If you can decide now all the details, you'll be so glad you did, later, even if something changes. During the construction process with contractors, the world moves very fast. You _will be_ met with challenges and will need your extra time to figure out a way around them.


i agree. plan ahead with wiring and infrastructure. . . i have a friend that built a studio in wimberley and spent $30k on wiring and soldering panels and patch bays. (that's with zero/very low labor cost getting interns to do it)

- nick


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