# What's with collector's edition DVDs



## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Why do manufacturers still state that a DVD is a deluxe ultra platinum limited edition collectors box set or something else to that matter. We all know they pressed a few hundred thousand of them and 5 years from now they'll be worthless. 

Do people actual buy them thinking that they're collectible? 

Have any VHS tapes that have appreciated in value?


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## Richard W. Haines (Jul 9, 2007)

What they're often referring to it the latest special edition or collector's edition or ultimate edition
was mastered correctly for optimum quality and the earlier editions were not. As anyone who
collects DVDs knows, at their best they can simulate film (especially on a DLP). At their worst
they are an eyestrain to watch because problems are exacerbated in the digital domain (soft
focus, grain, murky or faded color etc.)

It's also important to remember that digital technology has improved over the years.
The originally were using 2K resolution and have now upgraded to 4K. Many of the first DVD releases
were only mastered in letterbox formats rather than anamorphically enhanced. They didn't start
the digital clean ups until years later (frame by frame restoration of worn negatives removing
scratches and dust). All of this is very expensive and a problem for the distributor bottom liners.
In some cases I think they are just doing a quick and sloppy transfer of a film to 'get it out there'
and make some money. Then some of those profits are rolled over into a restoration and proper
transfer of the film. I believe they did that with the Connery Bond films. The new ulitimate
edition transfers are spectacular. The earlier DVD transfers are mediocre to poor.

Now they'll have to go back and re-transfer every film in high definition and I'm sure they'll
have even better mastering techniques and technology in the future. In addition, I don't
believe DVDs are considered 'archival'. They'll probably last ten years or so before deteriorating
which is before an upgraded version will be released of the same title.

Unlike film collecting or vinyl record collecting, DVD collecting is an ongoing process, not a one
shot deal. You don't buy a DVD and keep it for a lifetime. You purchase it and screen it for the time being until a better version is released. If you think of it in those terms, it can be a lot of fun and
entertaining.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Factory cut DVD and CDs will last quite a bit longer than 10 years if stored correctly (ie: not in the back window of your car). I think I read that they will last 25-50 years. Burned CD and DVDs however have a life of ten years or less due to the writable media's technology but their life can be extended by ideal storage parameters though. RW will last even less. All those people who thought their photos would be safe for years to come should be re-burning their archives especially if they use cheap discs.


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## Richard W. Haines (Jul 9, 2007)

MatrixDweller,

The Australians have done some testing of longevity of DVDs and they come up with
the time span of 10 years. The format will be obsolete before then is the theory. I don't believe
they are archival. You need a hard copy of an image (film negative or print) and sound (optical
track or digital film track) to consider something archival. Zeros and ones in the digtial domain are
not a hard copy or permanent storage medium. 


That's not to suggest they should not be purchased or collected for the short term
entertainment value...and life is shorter that you think so buy and enjoy them now. However,
I don't believe that DVDs will last for generations the way unplayed vinyl records have survived
nor 35mm Technicolor or black and white tri-acetate prints. (Pre-1983 Eastmancolor prints are
worthless and fade to red)


For example, I have over fifty year old 35mm Technicolor and Super Cinecolor near mint prints
that look the same as they did when first released. I seriously doubt that current DVDs will last
that long nor will the format they are contained on. Digital is temporary, not permanent. It's
just another medium to transfer film elements too. My strong conviction is that it's the film elements
that have the potential to last...and be transferred to any future format in existence or to be invented.


Then again, DVDs might be like old pre-1950 nitrate film. Some last (for unknown reasons) and
others deteriorate beyond usage. The original nitrate negatives of "Gone with the Wind" from 1939
still exist whereas many nitrate negatives from the forties have decomposed completetely. The nitrate negative of "Lost Horizon" from 1937 crumbeled to dust by 1967. Most consumer products have planned obsolesence built in. Our best hope for survival of the motion picture art form is the continued preservation of film elements from the past so they can be transferred to the format of the moment
for consumer use.


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## Bob_99 (May 8, 2006)

> I have over fifty year old 35mm Technicolor and Super Cinecolor near mint prints
> that look the same as they did when first released.


 Richard,

Does film like that bleed to the layer if not used periodically?

Bob


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Film needs to be stored in acid free "Archival" storage, in a climate controlled environment to stay minty fresh. If you apply the same archival storage techniques to DVD's they will last a lot longer than 10 years. DVDs are digital too so you either get data or you don't. This plays havok when a dealing with executable files but not so much with images or sound.

All of the major manufacturers of CDR/DVDR discs offer archival quality discs as well (see Fujifilm CD-R for Photo). They are preported to last up to 100 years. 

Anyway we're talking about factory "pressed" DVDs. Some of the first DVD's produced were suseptable to corrosion of the metalic layer called "rot", but that problem has since been corrected. Factory made DVDs will last much much longer than 10 years. http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html#3.12


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## Richard W. Haines (Jul 9, 2007)

Bob 99,

Neither Technicolor nor Super Cinecolor 35mm prints have any print bleed through problems
unless you 'rejuvinate' them which is no longer done. Rejuvination caused the film to decompose
so bleeding colors is irrevelant. The bottom line is that even in the worst storage conditions
the dyes do not fade. Of course ideal storage is cold and dry so tri-acetate films kept in these
conditions have lasted over fifty years. Tri-acetate in bad storage is subject to hydrolisis or
'vinegar syndrome'. The film warps beyond printer or projector tolerance and smells like vinegar.
It's only common in tri-acetate stored in horrible conditions tightly sealed in a can and unopened
for decades. Estar stock (for current release prints but not camera negatives) is theoretically not
subject to hydrolisis but once again, good storage is advised. 

MatrixDweller,

I guess time will tell. I have seen a number of deteriorated DVDs but most of them are
from my library so they were probably worn from use. The Special Edition DVD of "Patton" that
I bought freezes now in several places whereas it played fine when purchased. I have over two
hundred Standard definition DVDs and haven't had the time to check the rest. The discs are stored
in the same vault as my film prints and negatives so that isn't an issue (65 degrees, 55 percent RH) 
I doubt whether most consumers have archival storage vaults and keep their discs at room temperature which varies over the seasons so we'll see if they last. I personally prefer a 'hard copy' of audio/visual material for preservation. That's why I like film images and optical track negatives. Thus far, I've had no
problems with deterioration on them.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I think the #1 killer of DVDs is little kids...

For some reason they are facinated by them. They'll open up the case and play with the disc and paper inserts. For some reason kids hands tend to be perpetually greasy and by the time they're done playing with the DVD the disc looks like it's coated in Crisco. Of course you find it wedged in the sofa or in the toy box.


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## Richard W. Haines (Jul 9, 2007)

MatrixDweller,

I agree that kids are rough with DVDs but they are with most things. They probably consider
them toys to some degree. When you hear about the enormous volume of Disney discs sold, some of
them are probably families buying multiple copies of the same title as the kids trash them. 


Certainly DVDs are more subject to playback problems than CDs which often play no matter how scratchy they are. DVDs will freeze or the image will break up if scratched. Because they aren't like the vinyl records which scratchy easily, I suspect many people think they are more durable then they are in reality. They should be handled from the sides and the surface not touched. However, as I mentioned in another post, I have some older CDs that have deteriorated even though I'm very careful with them. Then again I was always very careful with items I collected. When I read paperbacks I
tried not to break the binder. The same when I started collecting first Super 8 sound movies then
16mm and 35mm prints of my favorite movies. When I got into video collecting it was very infuriating
watching my SelectaVision and Laserdiscs deteriorate no matter how carefully I handled them. That's
why I saved the 35mm Technicolor prints. They still play as brand new after fifty years. The DVDs
are for short term entertainment and I try to keep them in good storage and free of damage but I
don't believe they will last for decades any more than the other video formats I bought over the years.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

A problem with vinyl/shellac/etc records is that they are damaged during playback to a slight degree. If you don't use high-end gear the stylus on the record player actually wears down the surface of the record. So too can the heat of the lamp, dust, fibers, and friction on a film reel. DVD and CD players have no surface contact friction to wear out the media. 

The beauty of digital is that the data will either be perfect or non-existent (damaged) without the gray area of analog. That is a bad thing if you were trying to restore a lost pixel(s) from a digital source because you would just be taking an educated guess to what was there. 

Of course an analog 35mm or 80mm film can be blown up (enlarged) to monstrous size, has no pixelation and is much more detailed than anything currently digital. It is far far superior in that area.

That being said film is not practical for home use by the average Joe. It's much more expensive to produce and laborious to watch. DVD makes it affordable and easy even if it may last only 10-25 years. DVD will probably be mostly dead by 2010 and HD Media will be king with something else lurking to replace it.


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## Bob_99 (May 8, 2006)

> Neither Technicolor nor Super Cinecolor 35mm prints have any print bleed through problems
> unless you 'rejuvinate' them which is no longer done. Rejuvination caused the film to decompose
> so bleeding colors is irrevelant. The bottom line is that even in the worst storage conditions
> the dyes do not fade. Of course ideal storage is cold and dry so tri-acetate films kept in these
> ...


Thanks. I did not know that and find it very interesting.

Bob


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## Richard W. Haines (Jul 9, 2007)

MatrixDweller,

I agree that digital imagery for home use is the future for entertainment in your livingroom.
There's still a small group of people who collect 35mm and 16mm and even 3 panel Cinerama
out there which is good because at least some prints will survive on film years from now. The studios
are preserving their negatives now but not release copies. Most are junked since they don't
have rep theaters or second run to book them in and storage is expensive.
Curiously, film as a home medium was very popular until the advent of VHS in the late seventies.
16mm and Super 8 sound features were available for sale directly to consumers. In the fifties
you could purchase a 16mm Technicolor print of "The Adventures of Robin Hood" and by the
mid-sevenites you could buy Super 8 sound prints of "Gone with the Wind" and "Saturday Night
Fever". However, these prints were very expensive compared to cheap DVDs. Companies
that sold them include Blackhawk films and Niles films. So watching complete features in
your livingroom isn't anything new. The numbers of people who do it now is the major
change. Virtually everyone is a film collector rather than just a select few.


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## Moviefanatic (Jul 5, 2009)

I've got so many DVDs/CDs that it's a scary thought that my collecting will be totally in vain in the next 10 years. I was told this'd happen years ago by my cousin, but I just didn't believe him. With maturity, I think I've finally come to realize my collecting is just intangible dust. It's a pity.


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