# New System Critique Needed



## owlfan12000 (Jul 2, 2007)

I'm going to be building a new house and I'm going to be adding a theater room. I'd like to get some thoughts on some choices I've made after reading some of the posts in various sections of the forum. I've got very little legacy equipment or movies so there's not a lot of need to worry about upconverting an old library or tying in old stuff. Take a look at my budget and tell me if I've missed anything I need or if something is too cheap or too expensive compared to the rest of the stuff. Everything, including the walls, are subject to change if it is worth it. 

Here's the theater layout:

 

I don't have the lighting worked out yet but I don't plan on having any windows so I should be able to control the light environment. The GIK acoustic treatments are little more than a guess based on the picture on the GIK site. 

Here's the budget:
 

I'd prioritize movies and sports over audio quality. My current HTIB cost me about $150 so my standards are currently low. My wife would like to have the ability to pipe music through the house but I've done no research on that yet.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Well all I can say is compared to a HTIB, you are going to be blown away. I would definitely recommend the PB-12NSD over the PB-10NSD given the size of the Room. SVS's SBS-01's are excellent and it looks like you have a good plan of action.

I would highly recommend picking up a B-Stock Onkyo TX-SR876 from Accessories4less for 829 (1800 MSRP). This AVR is simply fantastic and is in another league than the one you are looking at.

The biggest advantages to the 876 are Audyssey MultEQ XT, way stronger amplifier section, THX Ultra 2 Plus, Reon Video Processing (truly one of the best Processors available) Zone 2 and Zone 3 and much more. Even at its MSRP, the 876 has no peers and for 829, it is an absolute steal and beyond worth the added cost. They are almost sold out so I would jump on it. Way better to get the 876 now and hold off on the Butt Kickers.
Cheers,
JJ


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## owlfan12000 (Jul 2, 2007)

I'm hoping to try out the buttkickers at someone's house this weekend.

It looks like I can get a new 807 for $759 and a 1007 for $1019. Can you help me understand first, why I need some of the features you mention below and second, why I should get the 876 instead of either the 807 or the 1007?


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## Rambo4 (Jan 25, 2008)

Nice setup! 

Being someone that has similar room dimensions in their HT as you, (14X18) with a 92" screen, you are going to have to be vigilant on your bass traps and sub placement concerning the seating in the middle of the room. I have two to three large nulls in that area untreated. 

The MultEQ XT mentioned before would tackle most room modes, and I wouldn't buy any receiver without some sort of equalization for a dedicated room like this. Opens up the soundstage quite nicely.

Looks like a fun project!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Over the 1007, the 876's advantages are the Reon Processor and more power because the 876 is a 7 Cnannel AVR while the 1007 is a 9 Channel AVR. The 1007 would be an excellent choice.

Over the 807, the advantages are all of the things I mentioned MultEQ XT, way more power, THX Ultra 2 Plus Certification, Reon Video Processing and more.
Cheers,
AD


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree with Jack, the 876 or the 1007 are your best choices with the 876 being my number one choice the extra two channels on the 1007 are for height and in my opinion are not really that big a deal.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The Reon really is that good and combined with the power reserves of the 876, make it honestly the way to go. Couple it being 200 Dollars less than the 1007 and it really makes a compelling case.

Again, stocks of the 876 are getting super low and soon it will be unavailable. However, I really think you would be beyond pleased with the way the 876 drives your SVS's.
Cheers,
JJ


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

owlfan12000 said:


> I don't have the lighting worked out yet but I don't plan on having any windows so I should be able to control the light environment.
> 
> 
> I'd prioritize movies and sports over audio quality. My current HTIB cost me about $150 so my standards are currently low. My wife would like to have the ability to pipe music through the house but I've done no research on that yet.


Good job. It looks like you put some thought into it. Speaking of that, I'm wondering how you came up with your screen size and projector choice.

Light control is essential, it's good you'll have total light control. Our HT has a black acoustic tile ceiling. I used halogen cans wired to a remote controlled dimmer in the ceiling, with wall sconces on either side of the screen. It works well for us.

I suggest you approach house audio as a separate, unrelated concern. Don't make any HT decisions based on it.

Your equipment closet is a terrific idea. Be sure to vent properly. Our HT adjoins an 8x10 storage room. I have an opening in the wall between with an equipment rack mounted. The equipment rack has a smoked glass door which when closed acoustiacally isolates the equipment. Having rear access to all the equipment is wonderful.

How are you planning to run your speaker wire? Our HT is in the basement. The walls are open at the top, above the suspended ceiling. I used conduit down to wall boxes for all the front speakers. If I ever change or upgrade speaker wire, it will be easy.

Here's a link to photos of our HT: http://forum.blu-ray.com/home-theater-galleries/122100-doug-debbys-home-theater.html


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Agreed with AVR options suggested, but definitely go with at least the 707. This will give you pre-outs for EQ or outboard amplification in the future.

It looks like your HDMI cables are running $70 each at Visual Apex. Have you checked out monoprice or bluejeans cable? Bluejeans best 25' runs just north of $70, with other options considerably less.

With 2 rows of seating, 7.1, if properly positioned, could be beneficial. Still, I'd go with the 12" sub even if you stick with 5.1 for budget reasons.

Also, and I've never tried out a really good buttkicker setup, but you might consider spending that money on a 2nd sub instead.


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## owlfan12000 (Jul 2, 2007)

Thanks for all of the input. I address the AVR in another post later tonight. The 876s are a long shot right now because I'm presently unemployed but I have a lead that I think may pan out soon. Wife makes good money so the cash drain is low so it's more likely I would go with the 807 or 1007 a few months from now.



DougMac said:


> I'm wondering how you came up with your screen size and projector choice.


I started with a mental budget of 6 to 10K and decided something around 2K was good for the projector. I looked at Editors choices on Projector Central - Mitsubishi HC3800, Panasonic AE4000 and Epson PL Home Cinema 8500UB. I read some reviews and comments and decided the Panny or the Epson were my best options. The Panny was a little less. I haven't really done all of my due diligence yet on throw length and placement etc. Since I haven't started building yet this could change but it will be in this price range.



DougMac said:


> I suggest you approach house audio as a separate, unrelated concern. Don't make any HT decisions based on it.


 The only thing I wonder is if the receiver could drive speakers and/or another TV in another room. The 1007 notes that the 9.2 arrange could drive a 2 channel system somewhere else and it and the 876 have to HDMI outputs.



DougMac said:


> Your equipment closet is a terrific idea. Be sure to vent properly. Our HT adjoins an 8x10 storage room. I have an opening in the wall between with an equipment rack mounted. The equipment rack has a smoked glass door which when closed acoustiacally isolates the equipment. Having rear access to all the equipment is wonderful.


 I read a post suggesting rear access and tried to design something for this. I'd like to hear your thoughts on ventilation.



DougMac said:


> How are you planning to run your speaker wire? Our HT is in the basement. The walls are open at the top, above the suspended ceiling. I used conduit down to wall boxes for all the front speakers. If I ever change or upgrade speaker wire, it will be easy.


 Haven't thought much about this yet.



DougMac said:


> Here's a link to photos of our HT: http://forum.blu-ray.com/home-theater-galleries/122100-doug-debbys-home-theater.html


 Nice room. I'm partial to green myself so this is going in my theater bookmarks for review for waf.



eugovector said:


> It looks like your HDMI cables are running $70 each at Visual Apex. Have you checked out monoprice or bluejeans cable? Bluejeans best 25' runs just north of $70, with other options considerably less.


 The Visual Apex cables are part of a package deal. I used Bluejeans for my initial cables and would use them again for the additional cables I will need.



eugovector said:


> With 2 rows of seating, 7.1, if properly positioned, could be beneficial. Still, I'd go with the 12" sub even if you stick with 5.1 for budget reasons.


 I'm thinking about the 7.1 but I wonder if that isn't reaching a point of diminishing return.



eugovector said:


> Also, and I've never tried out a really good buttkicker setup, but you might consider spending that money on a 2nd sub instead.


 These are really a long shot right now but I hope to try them out and see how they work.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

I'd like a review of that Vapex screen when all is said and done if possible John. We've got nothing on the Visual Apex screens so far. :T


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## owlfan12000 (Jul 2, 2007)

mechman said:


> I'd like a review of that Vapex screen when all is said and done if possible John. We've got nothing on the Visual Apex screens so far. :T


Mechman - here is one screen review - http://www.projectorreviews.com/blog/?p=576&preview=true

The comments at the bottom are worth reading because they discuss the possible tradeoffs with higher quality/cost screens.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

owlfan12000 said:


> I started with a mental budget of 6 to 10K and decided something around 2K was good for the projector. I looked at Editors choices on Projector Central - Mitsubishi HC3800, Panasonic AE4000 and Epson PL Home Cinema 8500UB. I read some reviews and comments and decided the Panny or the Epson were my best options. The Panny was a little less. I haven't really done all of my due diligence yet on throw length and placement etc. Since I haven't started building yet this could change but it will be in this price range.
> 
> I read a post suggesting rear access and tried to design something for this. I'd like to hear your thoughts on ventilation.


OK. You might want to consider the Optoma HD20. It costs half as much as the Panny, but there are some tradeoffs. You might find this review interesting: http://www.projectorreviews.com/optoma/hd20/index.php

I think a lot depends on whether you prefer a DLP or LCD projector. Each have advantages and disadvantages. We have an Optoma HD65 720p projector and our screen is 120". Projectors have sure changed in the last two years since we bought our projector. Even with that, our lowly little HD65 does just fine and we won't upgrade until the lamp needs replacing.

I don't know what your house details are, but I imagine that passive ventilation will be plenty for the equipment closet. Since our equipment is in the storage room, ventilation is not an issue.

I'm glad you liked the room. We went around and around about color. Neither one of us wanted the institutional look we felt we'd get with a neutral dark gray, but I didn't want to use a color that would cause a color cast on the screen from reflection. The area around the screen isn't black, it's "Blackwatch Green". You can see the color in person, but when the lights are out and the image is on the screen, it is effectively black. A huge help with light reflection control was our use of a black suspended ceiling. Most people don't know that it is available. It costs a little more, but is well worth it.

Definately go with at least the PB12-NSD. That's what I have and it's not too much sub for your size room. Mine measures pretty much flat from 17 hz up in our room. I had to put foam on the closet doors in the HT to keep them from rattling! The explosions in "The Hurt Locker" are felt as much as heard. I think an argument could be made to either leave off the buttkicker or spend the money for a second PB12-NSD if needed to smooth out the response.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

For projector the Epson 8100 will still save you money, but give you better performance and placement flexibility than the optoma.


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