# Recommendations for new home theater system...



## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

I am a newbie here but not a newbie to forums..... I am new to the whole home theater world. My contractor is building me an entertainment room (40' x 24') and half of will be dedicated to a movie room. I am trying to decide bewteen a 70" to 80" LED or a projector and screen. I am leaning towards the projector and screen. I was hopeing that I could call someone locally here in Southern California, buy the system and have them install it. I dont want any complications since I am new to this and know nothing. I want a turn key system that is easy to operate. A friend has the Epson EX71 and it seems to work good. He has a 110" screen. That seems good to me.... What do you guys think? Any tips? Anyone know of a good company in So Cal that I can buy my system from and have it installed? I will have a Blu Ray and Direct Tv on it. Probably do some surround sound or something. I might keep it simple with the bose simulated surround sound system. I need some advice and help. The contractor is now waiting on me so I need to hurry. He is asking where I want electrical outlets (on the ceiling) and stuff like that. Thanks guys.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Welcome to HTS Mike - enjoy!!

I will let one of the west coasters answer your question about possible vendors. One note - I myself purchased the Bose Acoustimass 10 system a number of years ago as I did not know much at all about surround sound and Bose was a name I had heard often.

Now that I am in the process of building my HT and have done lots of research and listened to a few speakers, I would strongly recommend not buying Bose - every speaker I have listened to so far has put my Acoustimass system to shame - and I probably spent more on it than I will for the speakers for my new room. :sad:

If you are up to it, check out the Speakers forum - there are several good threads on speakers as well as a must-read sticky.


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## typ44q (Apr 7, 2008)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

I will just chime in on the display and suggest you go with a projector over a large TV. 70-80" is a huge TV but compared to the effect of a 110+" screen it pales in comparison. 
I am guessing if you are looking at TV's that large that you have some money to spend on a projector /screen and I would recommend something higher end that the EX71, on a screen that large the lack of resolution will start to be noticeable.
You really need to figure out a budget and go from there.
I also agree with previous post on audio, for the money you can always do better than bose


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## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Welcome aboard.

Cheers,
Bill.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

I dont mind spending a little bit of money...... That was a drawback to a 70 to 80 inch TV. They are about $5k. The main thing I want is simple. I have seen some media rooms with cabinets full of components with tons of wires out the back and crazy remotes and lots of buttons to turn them on or switch over. I dont want complicated. I am sure those are nice and the best but mine needs to be easy to use. My whole family will use it. 

I am thinking about a projector for less than $2k.... Reading here it seems that the Epson 8700, Panasonic AE4000 and the BenQ W6000 are the favorites..... Does that sound about right?

One question I have is the installation.... I am trying to find someone local to handle the entire project for me but so far no luck.... The projector will be about 12 feet from the screen. I would like 3 HDMI inputs for an Xbox, Direc TV and a Blu Ray..... Do the components all mount on the roof near the projector or do they make say a 20 foot HDMI cable?


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## typ44q (Apr 7, 2008)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

I would recommend a Harmony remote to control everything, they are affordable and fairly simple to setup and use.
In that price range I think you would be happy with any of those projectors.
I am on the east coast so I really can not offer and advice on a local installer, that is going to be tough.

As far as HDMI inputs, most people will connect their devices (xbox, bluray, cable box etc) to a audio receiver which will have lots of inputs and then run a single HDMI to the projector. Keeps it simple and seeing as how the projector does not have speakers, you will need something for the audio anyway. Also they do make very long HDMI cables which will allow you to mount the rest of your gear where it is more convenient. 
Check monoprice.com for the cables, they have excellent prices! they also sell projector mounts and lots of other accessories that you might need.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Thank you for the help...

I am trying to find someone here is So Cal that I can buy the equipment from and they will handle the installation for me. I just want them to handle the entire project. 

What about sound.... Should I got with surround sound or regular? I want to keep it simple but it would be easy to have wires and speakers done now while there is not a ceiling.....


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Oh yeah... what about a screen? What goes best with the above projectors or does it even matter? I am thinking about 100 to 110 inch.....

I want a clear nice picture.... That is why I was thinking about a 70 or 80 inch LCD - LED Tv. My wife thinks I wont be able to get a good picture with a projector.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> Oh yeah... what about a screen? What goes best with the above projectors or does it even matter? I am thinking about 100 to 110 inch.....
> 
> I want a clear nice picture.... That is why I was thinking about a 70 or 80 inch LCD - LED Tv. My wife thinks I wont be able to get a good picture with a projector.


As far as the picture from projectors go, here is a picture from raZorTT's build - can't remember his projector, but I wanted to point out the quality you can get from a projector.

Projector picture


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> Oh yeah... what about a screen? What goes best with the above projectors or does it even matter? I am thinking about 100 to 110 inch.....
> 
> I want a clear nice picture.... That is why I was thinking about a 70 or 80 inch LCD - LED Tv. My wife thinks I wont be able to get a good picture with a projector.


Seeking guidance from a hobbyist forum can be time consuming, redundant, as well as potentially distracting and confusing (as has already been demonstrated in this thread). I have not done business with any So. Cal. companies, so cannot recommend specific solutions. What I can recommend is that you start with CEDIA affiliated companies. Look for credentials that indicate they have staff with formal technical training and certifications, such as: HAA, THX, ISF, etc. Also insist upon multiple client references.

You should arrange an initial client consultation and site inspection. Your wife should be present for this. Be clear with them about your desires and approximate budget. If they are a good company, they will endeavor to scale the performance and sophistication of the project to your budget, including design, installation, programming, and calibration costs. A modern integration company will be fully capable of providing a simple means to control any system, that will be understandable by family members of a reasonable age.

You have already made several things clear that have been ignored by other posters. Your desire for professional assistance, and willingness to pay for the service, is a foreign concept to many forum members. There should be plenty of companies in your area that have the ethics, integrity, training, skills, and proven experience to meet your needs. Anyone suggesting solutions without a personal interview and site inspection should be avoided. I can give you someone to contact from your area who will likely know of several genuinely qualified service providers to approach: David Abrams, [email protected], www.avical.com, (323)679-4079.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Thank you for the information.... I am going to contact Dave right now.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

I found a company that will do the installation. I added their link below. I am pretty sure that is within the forum rules... If not I apologize and I will delete it. Has anyone ever heard of them? 

He recomended the Epson 8350 and a 120" screen. He said the entry level aduio will run me about $2k for a 5.1 system.... Does all this sound about right? What should I expect to pay for the entire system and installation. I am guessing about $5k. 

http://riversidehometheater.com/


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> I found a company that will do the installation. I added their link below. I am pretty sure that is within the forum rules... If not I apologize and I will delete it. Has anyone ever heard of them?
> 
> He recomended the Epson 8350 and a 120" screen. He said the entry level aduio will run me about $2k for a 5.1 system.... *Does all this sound about right? What should I expect to pay for the entire system and installation. I am guessing about $5k.*
> 
> http://riversidehometheater.com/


Did David recommend this company? How did the company have time to conduct an interview with you and your wife, plus a site inspection? How many of their previous customers did you speak to? What was your budget figure before talking to them? 

I looked at their web site and didn't see much in the way of certifications. Your guess looks a bit low for just the gear, wire, and other install devices. I would expect installation labor to be additional. It would be foolish for me to guess, considering how little I know about your budget/desires/lifestyle/room, etc. I don't value guessing anyway. It's usually a waste of time, and can do more harm than good.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



Alan Brown said:


> Did David recommend this company? How did the company have time to conduct an interview with you and your wife, plus a site inspection? How many of their previous customers did you speak to? What was your budget figure before talking to them?
> 
> I looked at their web site and didn't see much in the way of certifications. Your guess looks a bit low for just the gear, wire, and other install devices. I would expect installation labor to be additional. It would be foolish for me to guess, considering how little I know about your budget/desires/lifestyle/room, etc. I don't value guessing anyway. It's usually a waste of time, and can do more harm than good.


No I have not heard from David yet..... I left him a voice mail and an email. I look forward to hearing from him and will not make a decision until I talk to him.

I found this company yesterday and they called me back this afternoon. He was in my area so he stopped by and spent about an hour with me and my wife. Everything he said went with what I have read here.... First he said the room layout and seating is first then we can decide on the rest.... So he walked us thru that. He seemed to know what he was talking about.. He is going tosend me a proposal tomorrow.

I do not have a budget. Money is not a huge issue. Of course I dont want to spend more than I need too. I am jsut looking for a basic, easy to use, entry level set up. 

It is not a dedicated movie room. It is a multipurpose room entertainment room. Half will be for the movie area and the other half will have games....


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

I am thinking this projector and this screen... What do you guys think.

http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLite-Home-Cinema-8350/dp/B0044UHJWY

http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens...ction/dp/B000YUG02S/ref=pd_luc_cps_03_03_t_lh


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> I am thinking this projector and this screen... What do you guys think.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLite-Home-Cinema-8350/dp/B0044UHJWY
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens...ction/dp/B000YUG02S/ref=pd_luc_cps_03_03_t_lh


Both are solid choices IMO.......


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> I am thinking this projector and this screen... What do you guys think.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLite-Home-Cinema-8350/dp/B0044UHJWY
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens...ction/dp/B000YUG02S/ref=pd_luc_cps_03_03_t_lh


This is a good example of getting the wrong advice from a hobbyist forum. Are these choices what was recommended by your installation company? A matte white screen is the wrong material for your application. The size will depend upon your primary seating distance. How far from the screen will you sit the majority of time?


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



Alan Brown said:


> This is a good example of getting the wrong advice from a hobbyist forum. Are these choices what was recommended by your installation company? A matte white screen is the wrong material for your application. The size will depend upon your primary seating distance. How far from the screen will you sit the majority of time?


The installation company only recomended the projector. Based upon our discussion of the room layout he suggested a 120" screen. I found that screen on my own after doing some reading here on the forum. He has not yet sent me his proposal with the type of screen he recomends. As soon as I get it today I will post it. Also he asked me to do a quick drawing of the room layout. Once I do that today I will post it.

Thank you so much for your help. It is greatly apreciated.


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## aLittletank (Dec 25, 2011)

I am a hobbyist not a professional like most people on this board. However to totally discount personal experience of the hobbyist is to discount the need for this or any forum.

That said, if you are going to go with a professional service then I would slow down and be patient. Let him give you his recommendation then bring those ideas here to discus. 

On the surface I would expect him to suggest a screen that helps to mitigate light pollution that a multi use room would be challenged with. Gray, high gain... Whatnot.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> The installation company only recomended the projector. Based upon our discussion of the room layout he suggested a 120" screen. I found that screen on my own after doing some reading here on the forum. He has not yet sent me his proposal with the type of screen he recomends. As soon as I get it today I will post it. Also he asked me to do a quick drawing of the room layout. Once I do that today I will post it.
> 
> Thank you so much for your help. It is greatly apreciated.


How far from the screen will you sit the majority of time?


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



aLittletank said:


> I am a hobbyist not a professional like most people on this board. However to *totally discount personal experience of the hobbyist is to discount the need for this or any forum*.
> 
> That said, if you are going to go with a professional service then I would *slow down and be patient.* Let him give you his recommendation then bring those ideas here to discus.
> 
> On the surface I would expect him to suggest a screen that helps to mitigate light pollution that a multi use room would be challenged with. Gray, high gain... Whatnot.


No one has "totally" done anything in this thread. There are some very knowledgeable people who offer sound advice in hobbyist communities. They do so because they pay attention to what has been said in the discussion, have studied well, and gained some worthwhile experience. There are also plenty of posters who have made erroneous assumptions, based upon faulty information, or simply don't know that what they know is not appropriate advice for a given application. There is no accountability in forums, like there is in a business relationship. Posters usually won't even divulge their real identity! Free information is nice if you are on a low budget, but only as long as the advice you follow is valid.

The OP has already told us the general contractor needs decisions about the entertainment system design in order to proceed with his work. Slowing down may have real consequences. Paying for a professional who has formal training, certifications, experience, and references is far more expedient than seeking the approval of anonymous neophytes through the tedium of forum correspondence.

I appreciate these forums, but only up to a point. They fill a role in both the home entertainment consumer community and the professional community as well. That is why professional experts contribute to the discussions and why some find it worthwhile to support forums with advertising. I am both a hobbyist and a professional, who has actively participated in multiple AV forums for over a decade. There is value found in the information imparted, but only up to a point. There is also a mine field of bad advice that can definitely result in poor performance, buyer's remorse, wasted time and effort.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



Alan Brown said:


> How far from the screen will you sit the majority of time?


About 14 feet is where I will sit. I am designing it around "MY" seat. There will another row behind me but it is being set up for me and my wife. The kids can sit wherever they want... LOL. I am drawing it up now.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Yes I do not have time to do much research. Normally when I make a large purchase I research it to death.... This time I am out of time and to be honest I dont feel like putting much time into this as I have too much on my plate right now. So I am going to hire a professional. But I am going to make sure he is doing it right. That is why I am here on the forum. I want to educate myself and know what is going on and double check his work..... Thanks to everyone for the input and help. I really apreciate it.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> About 14 feet is where I will sit. I am designing it around "MY" seat. There will another row behind me but it is being set up for me and my wife. The kids can sit wherever they want... LOL. I am drawing it up now.


World wide digital video industry standards and practices recommend approximately a 30 degree viewing angle for a 1920 x 1080 resolution HDTV image. A 30 degree viewing angle is close to 1.5 times the screen diagonal. This is based upon the science of human vision and average 20/20 visual acuity. A 14' viewing distance would work with approximately a 112" diagonal screen. I would not recommend a screen that was 120" diag. unless you have poorer visual acuity than 20/20. Too large of a screen will result in the pixel grid being visible in the picture from your seat. Too small of a screen will result in lost detail and less of a sense of immersion while watching movies.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Hmmmm... My original plan was to go with a 110" screen... but my installation guy said 120" would be better. I will talk to him more about it. 

Here is a drawings of my layout. This was quick and I am not an artist by no means so please dont laught at me..... But this will give you an idea of what I am doing. The * is where me and my wife will sit. I dont care about the seats on the sides. They are not neccesarily meant for movie viewing. Just a place to sit and visit when we are not wacthing movies. I am sure there will be some guys sitting there when we have UFC night at my house but not real worried about it. Remember this is a multi purpose room and not a dedicated movie room.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Flipped aound....


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



mikef said:


> I am thinking this projector and this screen... What do you guys think.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Epson-PowerLite-Home-Cinema-8350/dp/B0044UHJWY
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Elite-Screens...ction/dp/B000YUG02S/ref=pd_luc_cps_03_03_t_lh


In a multimedia room you generally want gray screens. Since you have hired a pro to do the work for you. Lean on them and their experience. 

If cost is no object a Black Diamond screen or something similar is fantastic for a multi purpose room like you propose. An 8350 is a budget line projector you could certainly do better if you have a large budget. 

Setting up a projector is a lot of fun for some of us, but it is a lot of work too. 

The above combo would probably be ok, but in no way ideal. Let's slow down and see what your potential installer suggests. Given the cost of the project you could certainly upload some photos of where this is going.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

*Alan Brown* wrote:  


> There are some very knowledgeable people who offer sound advice in hobbyist communities. They do so because they pay attention to what has been said in the discussion, have studied well, and gained some worthwhile experience. There are also plenty of posters who have made erroneous assumptions, based upon faulty information, or simply don't know that what they know is not appropriate advice for a given application. There is no accountability in forums,like there is in a business relationship*.*



Although you make excellent points your last sentence can be viewed with some skepticism. Professionals and General contractors are in business to make money, their recommendations can be based on products they sell or are pushing which may not be the best for the given application. Whether the information comes from a forum or a Professional, the onus is on the person spending his money to thoroughly research the recommendations and base his decisions accordingly.
​


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



Alan Brown said:


> World wide digital video industry standards and practices recommend approximately a 30 degree viewing angle for a 1920 x 1080 resolution HDTV image. A 30 degree viewing angle is close to 1.5 times the screen diagonal. This is based upon the science of human vision and average 20/20 visual acuity. A 14' viewing distance would work with approximately a 112" diagonal screen. I would not recommend a screen that was 120" diag. unless you have poorer visual acuity than 20/20. Too large of a screen will result in the pixel grid being visible in the picture from your seat. Too small of a screen will result in lost detail and less of a sense of immersion while watching movies.


While I appreciate the World wide digital video industry standards and practices recommendations, they are not always ideal for every person with average 20/20 visual acuity. Also, I have used a 125" screen at 12' for a couple of years with perfect vision (as long as I am wearing my glasses)... and I have never seen hide nor hair of a pixel grid. Previous to that I used a 97" screen at 12'. While the 97" was fine and good at the time, I would not change my 125" screen for a smaller one, regardless of who recommends it. 

I am not saying the OP should go with a larger screen, but it can be easily determined by him.


@mikef... If I understand you correctly, your contractor should be able to continue without you having to make a final decision on screen size. A _suggestion_ might be to have your contractor smoothly finish out the screen wall with a flat white paint at a minimum of 120" (exactly where the screen will be mounted or painted). You might even want to use Misty Evening Gray (Glidden) or some other suggested gray. After you get your projector mounted, set it at 120", 112" and any other sizes you might want within the range of the projector capabilities. Test each size for a few weeks or longer if possible and determine which size is ideal for your own eyes. Your screen can be the last part of the puzzle. Once you decide on the screen size, then you can buy or finish the screen. If you decide on smaller than 120", paint or finish the unused area to match as appropriate.

As a pretty good standard among enthusiasts, I have found that most people who tests their screen size are perfectly happy with what they decide on. They don't have to go back and fix anything, they don't have any regrets later on, and they are by far not all within the recommendations of the World wide digital video industry standards for those with 20/20 vision. This is in no way to discount the industry, but there is value in real world experiences of members who take the time to share with others in forums.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Wow... All good info guys. Thank you so much. I should have the proposal today from the installation company that I want to use. As soon as I get it I will post it.
Thanks again for everything. You guys are great.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Here is the proposal from my Home Theater Guy..... He wants $1,500.00 for the installation and $200.00 for calibration (I dont even know what that is yet...LOL.). Does that sounds about right?

Epson 8350 = $1,100.00 (Optionial Upgrade for an additional $2k is Epson 5010)
Dragonfly DF-120-MW = $ 1,200.00 - Dragonfly 120" Matte White Screen

Along with this Audio.... 

Dennon AVR-1712 = $ 400.00 (7.1 Ch. 90 Watts per Channel Receiver)
Epsidoe ES-300-IW-6 = $ 1,225.00 (6" in Wall Speaker System)
Epsisode C3-SUB-IW-BLK = $ 350.00 (10" Powered 150 watt Sub Woofer)

What do you guys think?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

I think $1200 is an awful lot for a screen in relation to the rest of your system. Of course you have already stated money is not a major concern. I just don't think you have to spend that kind of money to get a good screen.

How about acoustics... has he even brought this up?

I did not catch it if you mentioned it, but did you specifically want in-wall speakers? 

That is a HUGE room and a 10" sub is NOT going to do the job if you want it to be like a real home theater. It sounds like this guy has limited resources for equipment. I am somewhat surprised he recommended a 10" sub.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*

Oh yeah.... His suggestion to upgrade to the 5010 was for 1 reason.... According to him it put out more light. Since I have am ulti purpose room with windows (I will get covers) and the room will be brighter than a dedicated movie room he thought that might be better.... Is it worth spending almost another $2k?


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

*Re: Newbie on this forum...*



Sonnie said:


> I think $1200 is an awful lot for a screen in relation to the rest of your system. Of course you have already stated money is not a major concern. I just don't think you have to spend that kind of money to get a good screen.
> 
> How about acoustics... has he even brought this up?
> 
> ...


I had told him I wasnt real big on the audio potrion..... Maybe I am wrong and naive. Not sure. I sjut didnt want to waste too much on audio. 

I never told him I want in wall speakers..... He said for the acoustics this would be better. They will point right at my seat.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Since this has turned into more of a home theater recommendations thread, I have renamed the title of the thread more appropriately and move it to Home Theater System Recommendations.

If you are not looking for that "full" home theater experience then a minimal audio system may be fine for you. It sounds like to me though that you are going to have a pretty nice visual experience with a mediocre audio experience. That is solely my opinion.

If you are going to have a lot of ambient light in the room while watching movies, then yes, you will need a bright projector, but I will pass that recommendation on to someone who knows more about projectors for bright rooms.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

Here is the entire proposal. Let me know what you guys think. If you guys think it is ok then I am going to do it. I have to buy the projector. It is not on this proposal. He said I can get it cheaper than he can. So it is between the Epson 8350 or the 5010. I wrote in the discount at the bottom. As long as I pay cash or check upon completion then I get this discount. Lots of money for the wires...... That surprised me. Does it all look ok. Thanks guys.

*EDIT: Images removed at the request of the company that issued the proposal. Obviously they realized the necessity to invoke their rights to hide their proposal from public viewing. The company's name will be banned from further discussion on this site.*


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Well, I hope others will chime in with their thoughts as well, but at first glance Mike here are a couple thoughts:

1. That is a good price for a new 1712 - that is the same price as Newegg gets atm
2. I too am quite surprised at the cost of cables - $300 for one 50ft HDMI cable seems quite excessive. As an example, take a sec and check the price of HDMI cables at Monoprice.
3. I personally do not like proposals that do not provide detail - I see in essence 5 entries dealing with labor of some sort and not one really provides detail as to what is involved and how many hours it is estimated to take.
4. I am all for having someone do work for cash, but when he is able to knock-off @30%, it makes me look at #3 a bit closer.

In the end Mike, it is not for any of us to say yea or nay - you really need to weigh the cost for yourself of just having someone take care of it versus doing some of the work / purchasing yourself.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I don't intend to be rude, but I am not sure how else to make the following statements. I prefer to be blunt about things anyway... it is what it is. 

It doesn't seem like you have paid much attention to any recommendations here, so I am not sure what you are looking for, unless you are impatient and just want someone to say "yeah, it looks good", because it really doesn't, and I would suggest anyone telling you it does needs to do a bit of soul searching. 

Your room is not finished yet is it? There is certainly no reason to be in a rush to buy the screen, which as I stated earlier, is more than I would ever spend. Those cables are ridiculously high IMO... I would NEVER pay that much for cables. You can get cables that are very reliable and deliver as good as quality as about any cable for much less. There is absolutely no doubt you can do better than what you are doing for the money, but apparently that is not all that much concern, so again, I am not sure what you are looking for. :dontknow:


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

Sonnie said:


> I don't intend to be rude, but I am not sure how else to make the following statements. I prefer to be blunt about things anyway... it is what it is.
> 
> It doesn't seem like you have paid much attention to any recommendations here, so I am not sure what you are looking for, unless you are impatient and just want someone to say "yeah, it looks good", because it really doesn't, and I would suggest anyone telling you it does needs to do a bit of soul searching.
> 
> Your room is not finished yet is it? There is certainly no reason to be in a rush to buy the screen, which as I stated earlier, is more than I would ever spend. Those cables are ridiculously high IMO... I would NEVER pay that much for cables. You can get cables that are very reliable and deliver as good as quality as about any cable for much less. There is absolutely no doubt you can do better than what you are doing for the money, but apparently that is not all that much concern, so again, I am not sure what you are looking for. :dontknow:


You are correct.... I have a little bit of time as far as the screen and some other items. However my contractor is waiting on me for electrical decisions and wires need to be led.... So if everything looks good then I will have this guy start leading wires. If not I will do more homework. 

I am going to do some more screen homework. That is the only suggestion so far. In the end I have to make my own decisions. I take advice from everyone, piece it together and make the best decision that I can. 

I think the wires are too high also but then he offers the discount to offset them.....


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I would prefer him tell me what his rock bottom price is on each item, then let me decide if I want to purchase it or let him provide it. That way you can get a handle on exactly what you are being charged for what. The only time I care to see the big discount at the end is if I am buying a house or a car.

One thing you could do on the wiring is run the speakers wires in the wall for the in-wall speakers. At the same time think about where you might want floor standing speakers if you change your mind later on and run a box with ½" or ¾" conduit up into the attic for future speaker wire. Locate the box low on the wall and cover it with a solid plate until and if you ever need it. Also run an extra power outlet and empty box in the ceiling about 4' farther back than where you plan to run the current one. This way if you ever decide to get a projector that needs more throw you will have an AC outlet and a cable box located appropriately for it. Flexibility... and it is easier to run it now that later.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you. That is good advice.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

mikef,
You are looking for an entry level system that is professionally installed. I say this system offered by your Home Theater Guy (HTG) would be proper for your conditions. The key word that most responders here seem to be not paying attention to is "entry level."
Most entry level systems will not have very well laid out specs. This system will probably sound better than a simple HTIB but it will be far from sounding really good. If you want a mid level sound system that would probably list better specs and probably sound much better, then you will have to pay the HTG much more money. And of course the cycle will continue where we say that you are paying too much because we are DIY'ers and don't think much about that bad, bad installer.

--If you still want an entry level system professionally installed, then go with the current HTG system. (You can have the HTG install a better system, but that will cost much more money).

--If you want a very good sounding system, and don't mind buying and installing the system yourself, here is what I would do. Tell the HTG that you are going to buy and install the components yourself later. Pay the HTG to work with your construction contractor to plan a layout for a general/standard 7.1 system. We can then help you to get through the rest of it.


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## chris71478 (Dec 2, 2011)

I don't wish to be rude, but there are several red flags here for me. His projector recommendation is ridiculous. Anyone who deals with projectors would recommend you buy a cheaper brighter projector if ambient light is a problem, not an ultra high contrast model that requires darkness to be effective. His cables an labor prices seem quite high. As for speakers, for most, especially newbs, the sub makes the system, so his recommendation to spend so much on speaker, and so little on a sub is crazy. I like to do everything myself, but I understand that some people don't. If you pay someone to do this for you, you want that person to be knowledgable and trustworthy. Based on what you've told us, I say do more research and/or get a competitors estimate.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I agree... and stated previously with that large of a room that a 10" sub is not going to fare well.

I am not sure I would label a $1,200 screen and a $3,000 projector as entry level either. Yeah, the audio portion is definitely on the entry level side, but the video is more akin to mid level.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Actually, the suggested projector is only ~$1100 (with an optional upgrade to the $3000 projector).
The screen... I haven't seen the room myself so I can't comment on what type of screen or how much the screen should cost. 
The speakers... this is a quote from mikef himself... "I had told him I wasnt real big on the audio potrion..... Maybe I am wrong and naive. Not sure. I sjut didnt want to waste too much on audio."
If he told the Home Theater Guy that he wants to pay good money for good audio, then maybe the HTG would have recommended better/bigger/more subs.

**EDIT** I would say the red flag for me is the price of the cables, way too high. And I agree with Sonnie (was it Sonnie?), just give me the real final price of each piece. Don't inflate individual item prices and then give me a discount at the end.
Mikef, there are cables that cost that much money, and maybe his brand of cables are that expensive (or maybe they are cheaper cables and this is where the HTG gouges you to death). But there are much cheaper cables that work just as well.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

chris71478 said:


> ... As for speakers, for most, especially newbs, the sub makes the system, so his recommendation to spend so much on speaker, and so little on a sub is crazy.


From what I can see, he is asking ~$175 per speaker and ~$350 for sub, doesn't sound too crazy to me.

If I had everything taken away from me and had to do it over again for a more entry level audio system, I would rather spend more money for better main speakers and save money on the sub.
Sure the effects of a proper sub are awesome and make a theater really great, but to me, that's icing on the cake. I would rather have better dialogue/intelligibility and cohesiveness from the main speakers, and have slightly underwhelming bass.

**suggestion** If I didn't care too much about full 7.1 surround sound, I would go with 5.1 and then use the saved money to upgrade the sub.


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## ru4au (Dec 7, 2011)

$650 for a remote control system? Don't you think that money would be better spent on audio instead of something you change sources and turn the volume up and down with....cable pricing is crazy....for the same money you are spending on the audio portion you could have a better receiver better speakers and better subs....the audio portion of your home theater is (IMHO) just as if not more important than the video portion...I personally think most of those types of places are good for a few things....charging to much for equipment so they can make money and not truly understanding what they are putting in....The people in here have nothing to gain by offering the suggestions that they do...I truly believe the suggestions to be genuine and most of the time on point....Ive been in audio for 27 years owned a stereo store and still have plenty to learn so I'm not saying I know everything....But hey if you got it to blow Ive got some sweet $22,000 interconnects you really need.


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## chris71478 (Dec 2, 2011)

gdstupak said:


> From what I can see, he is asking ~$175 per speaker and ~$350 for sub, doesn't sound too crazy to me.
> 
> If I had everything taken away from me and had to do it over again for a more entry level audio system, I would rather spend more money for better main speakers and save money on the sub.
> Sure the effects of a proper sub are awesome and make a theater really great, but to me, that's icing on the cake. I would rather have better dialogue/intelligibility and cohesiveness from the main speakers, and have slightly underwhelming bass.
> ...


A perfectly reasonable opinion, but I think that would put you in a minority among the home theater crowd. I would guess that someone going from no system to dropping 5-10k is looking for a "wow factor" for that cash. Two hundred dollars more sub would get it. As to the speaker price, my fault I didn't see 7.1. Pretty reasonable budget price. I still wonder why he's pushed in-wall if the OP didn't ask for it.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

chris71478 said:


> I still wonder why he's pushed in-wall if the OP didn't ask for it.


In an earlier post, mikef said .."I never told him I want in wall speakers..... He said for the acoustics this would be better. They will point right at my seat."
Usually I don't think of in-walls as good for the money as regular speakers. But again I will say that I have not visited the site and don't know everything mikef told the installer (other than mikef isn't that much into the audio portion) so I can't say the installer's recommendation is bad.


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## chris71478 (Dec 2, 2011)

I'm not saying that any of his recommendations are bad. I just see enough small points that give me pause. The installer may have perfectly valid reasons for every choice, and the OP may be very satisfied. I just think that that proposal doesn't represent the kind of deal that one should jump at. I would recommend that he do more research into what he really wants for his money.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

Thank you to everyone for the advice. It is greatly apreciated....

I have found a new company. Someone that wass recomended to me by a forum member here...... He seems much better than the last guy. As soon as I get his proposal I will post it up for your guys review. I really value the opinions here....

Oh yeah.... I do not want in wall speakers. This guy said NOT to go with the in wall speakers. He said go free standing. They are much much better....

Thanks guys.


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## ru4au (Dec 7, 2011)

Awesome.....I think you made a good decision....kudos


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yeah... it certainly never hurts to get another proposal... or two. :T


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

mikef said:


> Thank you to everyone for the advice. It is greatly apreciated....
> 
> I have found a new company. Someone that wass recomended to me by a forum member here...... He seems much better than the last guy. As soon as I get his proposal I will post it up for your guys review. I really value the opinions here....
> 
> ...


If I might ask, is there any real reason you want an installer to do everything for you?

I would certainly recommend getting an installer to fish wiring, mount speakers, etc, if you don't have the free time, but it's my suggestion to do the actual shopping aspect piece by piece. There's some great suggestions out there that we can give you that, in most likelyhood will wipe the floor with what package deals tend to offer.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

Here is a copy of the new proposal. I went to his place and got to see the exact set up in action. Not the exact audio. It looked great. I was impressed. I am new to this but I was not expecting that good of a picture with the lights on. What do you guys think? I think the proposal is good. The price seems fair. Any thoughts?

*EDIT: Images removed at the request of the company that issued the proposal. Obviously they realized the necessity to invoke their rights to hide their proposal from public viewing. The company's name will be banned from further discussion on this site.*


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

Bump.... Any thoughts?


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## ru4au (Dec 7, 2011)

Pay less for your screen, pay less for cables, get a real subwoofer, have the intstaller install the stuff you buy


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

GranteedEV put up a pretty good post on your other thread that most people here probably agree with, so there's not much left to say.
Do you need him to also post it here? 
If you want more different opinions you should start another thread at a different website instead of keeping up 2 of the same threads at this website.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

ru4au said:


> Pay less for your screen, pay less for cables, get a real subwoofer, have the intstaller install the stuff you buy


Thank you. This seems like good advice.


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## sensational1 (May 14, 2012)

Mike F should have looked closely at page 8 of the proposal he posted on your website...specifically....

"This proposal originates from Simple to Sensational and contains legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the eyes of the addressee. Our proposals, documentation, designs and software are the proprietary intellectual property of Simple to Sensational. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this information, please notify us at (866) 779-7392. Any dissemination of this information or any of its contents thereof without the express written consent of Simple to Sensational is strictly prohibited."

Posting an image of our proposal on your site is a violation of your terms of service...

"As a user, you agree to use the services offered by Home Theater Shack, LLC in a manner consistent with all applicable local, state and federal laws and regulations. No material shall be stored or transmitted which infringes or violates the rights of others, which is unlawful, obscene, profane, indecent or otherwise objectionable, threatening, defamatory, or invasive of privacy or publicity rights. Home Theater Shack, LLC prohibits conduct that might constitute a criminal offense, gives rise to civil liability or otherwise violates any law. Any activity that restricts or inhibits any other user from using the services of Home Theater Shack, LLC is also prohibited. Unless allowed by a written agreement, you may not post or transmit advertising or commercial solicitation on the Site."

Therefore, we insist that the image of our proposal be removed from your website immediately.

Regards,

Keith Callow
Simple to Sensational


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

sensational1 said:


> Mike F should have looked closely at page 8 of the proposal he posted on your website...specifically....
> 
> "This proposal originates from Simple to Sensational and contains legally privileged and confidential information intended solely for the eyes of the addressee. Our proposals, documentation, designs and software are the proprietary intellectual property of Simple to Sensational. If you are not the intended recipient and have received this information, please notify us at (866) 779-7392. Any dissemination of this information or any of its contents thereof without the express written consent of Simple to Sensational is strictly prohibited."
> 
> ...


It has been removed...

What are you scared of? It is free advertiseing and publicity..... I thought I was doing you a favor.... Do you have something to hide? 

This post makes me realize that I denfinately made the right decesion when I chose the company that I chose...


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## sensational1 (May 14, 2012)

Scared?, not at all.... you simply do not have our permission to post the proposal. The advice you received here was actually very good given the partial picture of the overall system and enviornment presented.


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## mikef (Jan 10, 2012)

sensational1 said:


> Scared?, not at all.... you simply do not have our permission to post the proposal. The advice you received here was actually very good given the partial picture of the overall system and enviornment presented.


Well I am real happy with my system... Although I did upgrade to a HSU VTF-15 Subwoofer.... Everything else perfect. The installation and prices were great.


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