# Advice on Building my dedicated HT Room



## devildog1679

So I'm finishing my basement and one room will be a dedicated HT room. Room is 30x11, planning on having the contarctor add audio wall plates on all four top corners for speakers, they will be able to accept banana plugs or bare wires. Should I also add wall plates at the bottom of the corners? If I do I'll have the flexibility of using floor speakers as well. I'll be mounting a projector to the ceiling deadcenter of room at 15' from either wall that way I'll have flexibility of using either wall for the screen. Are center channel speakers a necesity? If so I'll add wall plates on the center of each 11' wall. Question here, can center channel be placed uptop by ceiling or do they have to go down low? Can they rest on the floor? I was also thinking of adding wall plates deadcenter of 30' up top and bottom in case I wanted to locate speakers on the side. Will the side speakers be overkill for a room of this size?

As for eqipment as of now I'm looking at the Optoma HD20 for projecter and Yamaha 373 for receiver. Not sure about speakers, or I could go for the Yamaha YHT-497BL which has the 373 receiver but comes with speakers. Are floor or ceiling mount speakers better for sound? Are there specific wires I should have the contractor run to the wall plates for the speakers?


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## rab-byte

Hello again,

Putting plates in the top and bottom four corners and top/bottom center of the walls will give you über flexibility. Adding coax jacks to the floor corners will allow good sub placement. If you really want to flesh out your ability to retrofit the room anytime then add two cat-6 cables dead center each wall and running to the projector. Have all that wire terminate in a media closet and you can place video on any wall be it flat panel or direct view projector, or both. This will also let you run the room in 5.1 or 7.1 from any direction.

Google "hdmi balun" 
And remember you will want a remote control with RF... Harmony900 or 1100 is all most people need; that said URC makes amazingly versatile and solid (can be dropped several times) remotes.


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## devildog1679

rab-byte said:


> Hello again,
> 
> Putting plates in the top and bottom four corners and top/bottom center of the walls will give you über flexibility. Adding coax jacks to the floor corners will allow good sub placement. If you really want to flesh out your ability to retrofit the room anytime then add two cat-6 cables dead center each wall and running to the projector. Have all that wire terminate in a media closet and you can place video on any wall be it flat panel or direct view projector, or both. This will also let you run the room in 5.1 or 7.1 from any direction.
> 
> Google "hdmi balun"
> And remember you will want a remote control with RF... Harmony900 or 1100 is all most people need; that said URC makes amazingly versatile and solid (can be dropped several times) remotes.


So subs use Coax? What would the cat-6 be for? What about the centerline, should that be top or bottom?


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## rab-byte

Run speaker wire top bottom and cat-6 around eye level or just bow 4-5' 

Cat-6 is for the hdmi via baluns

Coax or rg6 is a type of wire and we can switch the tips from cable to an RCA type. That will serve to connect the sub to the AVR.


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## devildog1679

rab-byte said:


> Run speaker wire top bottom and cat-6 around eye level or just bow 4-5'
> 
> Cat-6 is for the hdmi via baluns
> 
> Coax or rg6 is a type of wire and we can switch the tips from cable to an RCA type. That will serve to connect the sub to the AVR.


Ah, ok. I'm also thinking of having the contractor make the mounting location for the projector a long thin box with mounting points every foot. Basically a 5' box with 5 different mounting points. This should give me more flexibility for screen size. Thoughts?


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## rab-byte

I'd say as long on you have a rafter dead center across the room you can just mount it on a basic pole mount.


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## devildog1679

rab-byte said:


> I'd say as long on you have a rafter dead center across the room you can just mount it on a basic pole mount.


Unfortunately The rafters run left to right. But now that you said that I can have him place blocks between the rafters to make one that runs front to back. Thanks for the idea.


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## rab-byte

Doesn't matter left/right or forward/back as long as a rafter is running across the center of the room. If not then yes a simple block running across two rafters is all you need. Really most projectors can forgive 16" at 15'.


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## devildog1679

rab-byte said:


> Doesn't matter left/right or forward/back as long as a rafter is running across the center of the room. If not then yes a simple block running across two rafters is all you need. Really most projectors can forgive 16" at 15'.


Thanks, hey can centerline speakers go on top by ceiling or do they have to go down low?


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## chashint

With 30' to work with there is enough room to use an acoustically transparent screen.

Three matching towers across the front would be my first choice, but there are plenty of great bookshelf speakers or pro type speakers that would work great too. Just position the tweeters so they are aproximately ear level when seated.

What is your planned budget for the audio portion of this project ?


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## devildog1679

chashint said:


> With 30' to work with there is enough room to use an acoustically transparent screen.
> 
> Three matching towers across the front would be my first choice, but there are plenty of great bookshelf speakers or pro type speakers that would work great too. Just position the tweeters so they are aproximately ear level when seated.
> 
> What is your planned budget for the audio portion of this project ?


acoustically transparent screen? I was looking at a refurbished Onkyo 7.1 for now. Total budget with projector and audio is 1.5k. With kids I want to keep speakers off the floor so towers may not work. Would it be a problem if I placed the front speakers up by the top corners


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## rab-byte

devildog1679 said:


> Thanks, hey can centerline speakers go on top by ceiling or do they have to go down low?


Both is fine. Closest to seated head level is best.


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## devildog1679

So should I go with a 5.1 or 7.1? I'm thinking for now due to budet just get a refutbished HTIB. Thinking of the below. Now my next two delemas, with kids I want to keep the speakers off the floor except for the sub and I do not want to mount the front speakers midwall. Would putting them in the top corners be ok? Same for the centerline, thinking of top center angled down. 

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKHTS5500/Onkyo-HT-S5500-7.1-Channel-Home-Theater-Package-w/USB-for-iPod/iPhone/1.html

I think i may go for the viewsonic 8200, using the projector central calculator at 15' it will produce a 122" screen. Is this a set size, do I need to move it closer to change size or is there some other way to adjust?


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## rab-byte

devildog1679 said:


> So should I go with a 5.1 or 7.1? I'm thinking for now due to budet just get a refutbished HTIB. Thinking of the below. Now my next two delemas, with kids I want to keep the speakers off the floor except for the sub and I do not want to mount the front speakers midwall. Would putting them in the top corners be ok?...
> ...
> 
> I think i may go for the viewsonic 8200, using the projector central calculator at 15' it will produce a 122" screen. Is this a set size, do I need to move it closer to change size or is there some other way to adjust?


Yes you can place all your speakers at ceiling hight. If you prewire everywhere like we've talked about you'll have no issues if you change your mind about placement later. 5.1 is fine especially if you're planning upgrades later. 



Most projectors have a "throw" this is a ratio of distance of projector to screen size. Most have a range that is adjustable. Think of a MagLight you can focus or widen the beam of light that is "thrown" from the flashlight, but it's only a limited adjustment. Stepping forward or back with the light will also adjust the size if the beam of light. I hope that makes since. 

You should google some terms for projectors:
Throw
Lens shift
Aspect ratio
Lumens
Contrast ratio

A good rule of thumb is that the projector should hang within the field of the screen... That is that the projector should line up within the top and bottom or the screen. All the way at the top of the screen is fine. You'll find placement like this is more forgiving when trying to get your projected image to line up with the screen's dimensions.


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## devildog1679

rab-byte said:


> Yes you can place all your speakers at ceiling hight. If you prewire everywhere like we've talked about you'll have no issues if you change your mind about placement later. 5.1 is fine especially if you're planning upgrades later.
> 
> Most projectors have a "throw" this is a ratio of distance of projector to screen size. Most have a range that is adjustable. Think of a MagLight you can focus or widen the beam of light that is "thrown" from the flashlight, but it's only a limited adjustment. Stepping forward or back with the light will also adjust the size if the beam of light. I hope that makes since.
> 
> You should google some terms for projectors:
> Throw
> Lens shift
> Aspect ratio
> Lumens
> Contrast ratio
> 
> A good rule of thumb is that the projector should hang within the field of the screen... That is that the projector should line up within the top and bottom or the screen. All the way at the top of the screen is fine. You'll find placement like this is more forgiving when trying to get your projected image to line up with the screen's dimensions.


Thanks, a lot more to this HT than I thought. Glad I found this forum. For the speaker wire I was thinking in wall certified AWG 12, due to the distances I take these will be best.

Originally as mentioned in my first post I was going to add wall plates with banana receptacles. Now I'm thinking of just running the wires and securing them to a post in the wall and just adding blank plates. My wife will like the cleaner look. Than I can just replace the blank plate with a brush type one to the wire through. Another added benefit I hear is that it reduced the breaks in straight connections between speaker and AVR so signal does not degrade as much. Any truth to that?


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## 09molloyi

How much money are u willing to spend?


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## rab-byte

devildog1679 said:


> Thanks, a lot more to this HT than I thought. Glad I found this forum. For the speaker wire I was thinking in wall certified AWG 12, due to the distances I take these will be best.
> 
> Originally as mentioned in my first post I was going to add wall plates with banana receptacles. Now I'm thinking of just running the wires and securing them to a post in the wall and just adding blank plates. My wife will like the cleaner look. Than I can just replace the blank plate with a brush type one to the wire through. Another added benefit I hear is that it reduced the breaks in straight connections between speaker and AVR so signal does not degrade as much. Any truth to that?


12-16 is fine
I wouldn't worry about wire fidelity unless you start looking at a major speaker and AVR budget. But yes blanks do look less intrusive.


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## devildog1679

09molloyi said:


> How much money are u willing to spend?


$1,500 for projector, screen and HTIB. So far $900 for Viewsonic, $400 for HTIB and $200 for screen. With that said would a pull down screen be better than a painted wall?



rab-byte said:


> 12-16 is fine
> I wouldn't worry about wire fidelity unless you start looking at a major speaker and AVR budget. But yes blanks do look less intrusive.


OK, Thanks


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## devildog1679

I think I found a good deal on a lightly used projector. It’s a Acer H5350, from what I can gather its 3D capable and also comes with 4 3D DLP Link Active Shutter glasses. It has about 60 hours of use and is in good condition, the seller wants $550. What do you think? Is this a good deal? The others I’ve been looking at are the Viewsonic 8200 or the Epson 8350, though I think the Epson is out of my budget.


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## chashint

I do not know much about projectors / screens so this may be unacceptable, but if finishing the wall flat and painting it white will make an acceptable screen I would do that and put the $200 earmarked for the screen into the audio bucket.
The budget is the budget but $400 is not going to get much of an audio system to go with a 100" picture.
$600 would at least get something like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117408 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405 x2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290130
I was in the local Fry's today and they had Kef IQ10's for $99 / pr so if you are near a Fry's those are worth checking out.


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## devildog1679

chashint said:


> I do not know much about projectors / screens so this may be unacceptable, but if finishing the wall flat and painting it white will make an acceptable screen I would do that and put the $200 earmarked for the screen into the audio bucket.
> The budget is the budget but $400 is not going to get much of an audio system to go with a 100" picture.
> $600 would at least get something like this:
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117408
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117405 x2
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882117404
> http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882290130
> I was in the local Fry's today and they had Kef IQ10's for $99 / pr so if you are near a Fry's those are worth checking out.


I see your point, I'll look into a painted on screen.


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## pmcneil

If you want the best possible bass, go with infinite baffle. It will blow (literally) anything else away.


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## devildog1679

Starting work next week and I have to order all the cables. As mentioned this is a 30x11 room and I want to pre-wire it for a 7.1 system. In order to allow lots of flexibility down the road I am running 12 AWG to all 4 top & bottom corners and well as top & bottom in center of each wall. The center would be used for the center line speakers on the 11’ wall and side speakers on the 30’ wall. So in all 16 possible speaker locations, reason for so many is that down the road I may want floor speakers vs. ceiling mount.

As is this comes out to about 500’ of wire. I also want to wire 6 floor locations for subs, I gather I can use the regular 12AWG for the subs to minimize wire but would RG6 be better? If I do use RG6 I think the benefit is that these also be used for satellite or modem as long as I change the connector correct?


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## phillihp23

Check out Visual Apex..link at top, they are a site sponser. They have great projector/ screen combo deals.

If your wall is 11 feet to project on, a 100inch screen is probably as big as you can go. That would leave about 19 inches on each side for a speaker. Would need to see how big your speakers will be. 
Based on this you would need to see what distance the projector needs to be mounted at to project properly on it. Probably about 14-16 feet back from screen, depending on throw capability.


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## rab-byte

devildog1679 said:


> Starting work next week and I have to order all the cables. As mentioned this is a 30x11 room and I want to pre-wire it for a 7.1 system. In order to allow lots of flexibility down the road I am running 12 AWG to all 4 top & bottom corners and well as top & bottom in center of each wall. The center would be used for the center line speakers on the 11’ wall and side speakers on the 30’ wall. So in all 16 possible speaker locations, reason for so many is that down the road I may want floor speakers vs. ceiling mount.
> 
> As is this comes out to about 500’ of wire. I also want to wire 6 floor locations for subs, I gather I can use the regular 12AWG for the subs to minimize wire but would RG6 be better? If I do use RG6 I think the benefit is that these also be used for satellite or modem as long as I change the connector correct?


Use RG-6 for your sub runs. You need to use this. It's not an issue of one being better then the other. If you use speaker wire you have to use a passive sub and/or get a sub-amp. Running coax (RG-6) is the standard.


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## devildog1679

I need some guidence on a HTIB. Due to budget I can only spend $600 on the system and I would like to be a 7.1 system. I know that with that budget I am limited so I thought getting a refurbished system from accessories4less would be a good idea. Then in 2 years I can go all out. Which from the below links would you recomend?

http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php

As for projectors I've narrowed it down to 4, Epson 8350 or 8100, Mitsubishi HC4000, and lastly Viesonic 8200. Which would you recomend and why? Any others around $1,100?


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## NBPk402

devildog1679 said:


> I need some guidence on a HTIB. Due to budget I can only spend $600 on the system and I would like to be a 7.1 system. I know that with that budget I am limited so I thought getting a refurbished system from accessories4less would be a good idea. Then in 2 years I can go all out. Which from the below links would you recomend?
> 
> http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php
> 
> As for projectors I've narrowed it down to 4, Epson 8350 or 8100, Mitsubishi HC4000, and lastly Viesonic 8200. Which would you recomend and why? Any others around $1,100?


Rather than get a HTIB... I would go with a budget AVR, DVD player and some inexpensive speakers. Watch the sales and maybe even look on CL for a used setup.


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## duder1982

If you did some more precise planning, you could save on the speaker wire. I take it you will have the screen on the 11' wall which someone said you could go up to 100" screen. With 30' depth you could do 2 or even 3 rows. How tall is your room. All so If you go with a sound transparent screen you could go with in wall speakers, I have a buddy that went with a theater in a box in wall set up that sounds pretty good and it is 7.1. I will find out were he purchased and what brand, it even came with 2 in wall subs. Nice thing is you could all ways upgrade to a better in wall wants this idea for a home theater really takes off. Is there a way you could give us a drawing or pic of the room and we could help better design your room for your optimum home theater on a budget. Some have pointed out great buys on projector/screen combos. I think your refurbished receiver would do the trick, but like I said if we could get a little more precise we could save you a little money. As for your center speaker yes you will want a center speaker for voicing of the movies. If you went with either in walls, or wall mounted book shelves you would want your left, center, right speaker equal height. Hope this helps and doesn't throw a lot of wrenches in your plan. And welcome to the home theater world, I think it is something that makes for some nice family leisure time in your home.


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## devildog1679

duder1982 said:


> If you did some more precise planning, you could save on the speaker wire. I take it you will have the screen on the 11' wall which someone said you could go up to 100" screen. With 30' depth you could do 2 or even 3 rows. How tall is your room. All so If you go with a sound transparent screen you could go with in wall speakers, I have a buddy that went with a theater in a box in wall set up that sounds pretty good and it is 7.1. I will find out were he purchased and what brand, it even came with 2 in wall subs. Nice thing is you could all ways upgrade to a better in wall wants this idea for a home theater really takes off. Is there a way you could give us a drawing or pic of the room and we could help better design your room for your optimum home theater on a budget. Some have pointed out great buys on projector/screen combos. I think your refurbished receiver would do the trick, but like I said if we could get a little more precise we could save you a little money. As for your center speaker yes you will want a center speaker for voicing of the movies. If you went with either in walls, or wall mounted book shelves you would want your left, center, right speaker equal height. Hope this helps and doesn't throw a lot of wrenches in your plan. And welcome to the home theater world, I think it is something that makes for some nice family leisure time in your home.


I'll take a pic of the bar room tomorrow. The ceilings will be 8' once the drywall is placed. I don't want to do in walls so either wall mounted or floor speakers would do.


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## devildog1679

Other than the 12AWG and RG6 to all corners and center room, and the HDMI and CAT6 to the projector. Am I missing any other cable runs?


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## rab-byte

devildog1679 said:


> Other than the 12AWG and RG6 to all corners and center room, and the HDMI and CAT6 to the projector. Am I missing any other cable runs?


I don't think so... Is your screen motorized?


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## phillihp23

devildog1679 said:


> Other than the 12AWG and RG6 to all corners and center room, and the HDMI and CAT6 to the projector. Am I missing any other cable runs?


I am assuming you are going to run electrical to front wall, back wall (maybe more than one if your racking the equipment there), a couple down each side wall and one in a approximate location on the ceiling where you will install the projector.


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## phillihp23

You gonna run a DVI or PC cable from the projector to the rack room?? Just in case you wanna run a PC to projector direct. I did just in case future need or want.


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## devildog1679

rab-byte said:


> I don't think so... Is your screen motorized?


Nope, it will be manusl


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## devildog1679

phillihp23 said:


> I am assuming you are going to run electrical to front wall, back wall (maybe more than one if your racking the equipment there), a couple down each side wall and one in a approximate location on the ceiling where you will install the projector.


Yes, I'll have two outlets on long walls, 1 on short and 1 on ceiling for projector. I'll also run the wires and add a junction box on the center of each wall and hide behind drywall. This is just in case I want to add a flat panel down the road. Will also run conduit to both locations in order to pull cables through in the future.


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## devildog1679

phillihp23 said:


> You gonna run a DVI or PC cable from the projector to the rack room?? Just in case you wanna run a PC to projector direct. I did just in case future need or want.


Didn't think of that, since I road race I may want to play my videos on there. So I will add a DVI run


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## ALMFamily

If you want to add buttkickers in the future, run speaker wire to your seat location. For sub connection points, I would run them as powered and passive - gives you the flexibility later to swap subs and not be limited to one kind.


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## devildog1679

My initial thoughts on insulation and drywall is this. Due to this being a new construction both the building inspector and contractor told me that wall insulation is not needed. Just to clarify the basement will consist of two rooms, my theater room 30x12 and the kids play room 30x15. In the theater room I was planning on just adding R-11 batt insulation between the theater room and play room. ½” drywall on walls and 5/8” fire code on ceiling. For the ceiling I was not thinking of insulating as I don’t see a need for it. The floor will have a vapor barrier followed by 5/8 padding and burber carpet. Any flaw in my thoughts?


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> If you want to add buttkickers in the future, run speaker wire to your seat location. For sub connection points, I would run them as powered and passive - gives you the flexibility later to swap subs and not be limited to one kind.


Hey, just saw your in Madison. I live in Fitchburg, just started to read your build thread. Goign to be a killer room.


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> My initial thoughts on insulation and drywall is this. Due to this being a new construction both the building inspector and contractor told me that wall insulation is not needed. Just to clarify the basement will consist of two rooms, my theater room 30x12 and the kids play room 30x15. In the theater room I was planning on just adding R-11 batt insulation between the theater room and play room. ½” drywall on walls and 5/8” fire code on ceiling. For the ceiling I was not thinking of insulating as I don’t see a need for it. The floor will have a vapor barrier followed by 5/8 padding and burber carpet. Any flaw in my thoughts?


I may have asked this before, but are you wanting to sound isolate the HT at all? If so, I would definitely plan on insulating. Also, if there is nothing between the walls, I would be concerned about creating a "booming" effect since there is nothing to absorb the vibrations caused by a low frequency wave. 

As for the ceiling, you have a higher chance of hearing every footfall from the room above the less layers you do. For example, my ceiling has 3/8" styrofoam sheets and a layer of 5/8" drywall between every joist with GG between. Then, I sealed with an acoustical sealant. Next, I put in R19 insulations and installed Whisperclips / res channel. Then, I did a layer of 3/4" OSB then a layer of 5/8" sheetrock with GG between. I had my kids stomp around upstairs after every layer to see the effect each had on isolation - each successive layer dropped it to varying degrees until I reached the point I am at now - I cannot hear them screaming upstairs.

If you answered yes to sound isolation, you may want to consider doing DD / GG and clips / res channel as well.


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> Hey, just saw your in Madison. I live in Fitchburg, just started to read your build thread. Goign to be a killer room.


Super close! If you see something I did and want to see it in "real life", let me know and we can work out a time.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> I may have asked this before, but are you wanting to sound isolate the HT at all? If so, I would definitely plan on insulating. Also, if there is nothing between the walls, I would be concerned about creating a "booming" effect since there is nothing to absorb the vibrations caused by a low frequency wave.
> 
> As for the ceiling, you have a higher chance of hearing every footfall from the room above the less layers you do. For example, my ceiling has 3/8" styrofoam sheets and a layer of 5/8" drywall between every joist with GG between. Then, I sealed with an acoustical sealant. Next, I put in R19 insulations and installed Whisperclips / res channel. Then, I did a layer of 3/4" OSB then a layer of 5/8" sheetrock with GG between. I had my kids stomp around upstairs after every layer to see the effect each had on isolation - each successive layer dropped it to varying degrees until I reached the point I am at now - I cannot hear them screaming upstairs.
> 
> If you answered yes to sound isolation, you may want to consider doing DD / GG and clips / res channel as well.


Just went on the GG website. That set-up would be ideal, but as is my wife is already giving me a hard time about the theater room. This room is adding to our budget so I need to keep it simple unfortunately. Right above the room is the dining room which is never used. This room will be used mainly at night. So I don’t have to worry about transferring noise upstairs and or noise coming into room. Do you recommend at least insulting the walls and ceilings in order to minimize vibrations? Or would the insulation do nothing? If it will help I’ll add it since I could justify the cost to her as insulation help  Should the insulation used be regular batt insulation or would the foam kind be fine?

I may take up your offer. The projector set-up is something I’m not sure off. Though I think I’m going for the Epson 8350.


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> Just went on the GG website. That set-up would be ideal, but as is my wife is already giving me a hard time about the theater room. This room is adding to our budget so I need to keep it simple unfortunately. Right above the room is the dining room which is never used. This room will be used mainly at night. So I don’t have to worry about transferring noise upstairs and or noise coming into room. Do you recommend at least insulting the walls and ceilings in order to minimize vibrations? Or would the insulation do nothing? If it will help I’ll add it since I could justify the cost to her as insulation help  Should the insulation used be regular batt insulation or would the foam kind be fine?
> 
> I may take up your offer. The projector set-up is something I’m not sure off. Though I think I’m going for the Epson 8350.


Alex,

I would defintely do the insulation - it will make a difference in keeping highs / mids contained and to a lesser degree lows. I would do regular faced batts - R13 in the walls and R19 in the ceiling.

Just so you realize, once that vibration hits your studs, it can go anywhere - it will travel to other places besides the room immeadiately above albeit to a lesser extent. The insulation will help temper the lows, but the vibrations hitting your studs will flank the insulation. 

The 8350 is a good, flexible projector - it was on my short list when I was shopping for one.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Alex,
> 
> I would defintely do the insulation - it will make a difference in keeping highs / mids contained and to a lesser degree lows. I would do regular faced batts - R13 in the walls and R19 in the ceiling.
> 
> Just so you realize, once that vibration hits your studs, it can go anywhere - it will travel to other places besides the room immeadiately above albeit to a lesser extent. The insulation will help temper the lows, but the vibrations hitting your studs will flank the insulation.
> 
> The 8350 is a good, flexible projector - it was on my short list when I was shopping for one.


Ok, I'll insulate that room only then. The 8350 seems to fit my needs and I can get a refurbished unit for $999. Thinking of getting a refurbished Onkyo 9400 THX for $600. So much more to a Theater room than I thought.


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## ALMFamily

Alex,

Do you have a budget in mind for what you would spend for audio equipment?


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Alex,
> 
> Do you have a budget in mind for what you would spend for audio equipment?


Yes, $1,600 tops for both audio and video. The 8350 is $999, so $600 for Audio. I want a 1080p capable projector as well as one with lense shift to make set-up esier. As for sound, I want a 7.1 system. Do you know of any better systems for around that price. The 9400 THX is $1,000 non refurbished.

The site below has the HTIB that I'm thinking of gettign as well as some others. All ONKYO

http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/HTIB/Home-Audio/Packaged-Systems/1.html


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## ALMFamily

The reviews I read on that system last night were all supportive. If you want a full 7.1 system right off, I think that is a great way to go.

OTOH, the worst part about this hobby is the dreaded upgradeitis disease. :bigsmile: The 9400 will be a full system, but I have a feeling it will lack in tight clean mid bass and a low end punch. If you are looking for that effect, you may want to upgrade sooner than you might think.

Another option is to build your system over time. You could start off with a 2.0 system and add to it as funds become available. I searched Craigslist when I was getting speakers together, and you can find some pretty good deals on used speakers. Audiogon and Stereolist are other used speaker sites. As far as the AVR, I would look at A4L - you can get the Onkyo 609 for $299. It has Audessey for room correction and bench tests showed the amplification section performs really well. 

If you are a DIY person, you can check out offering froms GR Research (site sponsor). I bought one of their kits and plan to build the 2 speakers for my Zone 2 workshop.


----------



## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> The reviews I read on that system last night were all supportive. If you want a full 7.1 system right off, I think that is a great way to go.
> 
> OTOH, the worst part about this hobby is the dreaded upgradeitis disease. :bigsmile: The 9400 will be a full system, but I have a feeling it will lack in tight clean mid bass and a low end punch. If you are looking for that effect, you may want to upgrade sooner than you might think.
> 
> Another option is to build your system over time. You could start off with a 2.0 system and add to it as funds become available. I searched Craigslist when I was getting speakers together, and you can find some pretty good deals on used speakers. Audiogon and Stereolist are other used speaker sites. As far as the AVR, I would look at A4L - you can get the Onkyo 609 for $299. It has Audessey for room correction and bench tests showed the amplification section performs really well.
> 
> If you are a DIY person, you can check out offering froms GR Research (site sponsor). I bought one of their kits and plan to build the 2 speakers for my Zone 2 workshop.


To be honest I’m not a huge theater room buff, my main reason for this room is to have a place I can watch movies and road race events. Anything better than my current set-up would be a huge improvement. My other hobby (road racing) takes up all my extra funds  Eventually I’m sure I’ll upgrade but for the next 2-3 years I hope the system I buy would suffice. 

My only concern with the 9400 THX is the speaker sizes. Since I have a 4 year old and a 11 month old I want to keep the speakers off the ground which means they will all be mounted in the top corners except for the sub. Fronts are 6x17x7, surrounds are 8x10x6 and center is 17x6x7 (WxHxD). My other two options are the 8400 ($100 savings) or the 8409($50 savings), they have slightly smaller speakers but the fronts are towers. Not sure what the major difference between these other than the speaker sizes and the 9400 speakers are Acoustic suspension vs. the other two which are bass reflex.


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## ALMFamily

Probably the best way to keep the kids away from the speakers without putting them on the wall would be to go with an AT screen.

Basically, you build your screen wall out about 3 feet so that all the front speakers (and probably the sub) can be hidden behind the screen. The screen is acoustically transparent (thus the AT name) so it allows sound to travel through it. The nice thing about doing it this way is that if you decide to upgrade some day, you do not have to worry about the WAF factor as they will never be seen.

It also makes for a clean screen wall - thus allowing you to remove any distractions from the picture. I wish my space was bigger - I would have definitely gone this way.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Probably the best way to keep the kids away from the speakers without putting them on the wall would be to go with an AT screen.
> 
> Basically, you build your screen wall out about 3 feet so that all the front speakers (and probably the sub) can be hidden behind the screen. The screen is acoustically transparent (thus the AT name) so it allows sound to travel through it. The nice thing about doing it this way is that if you decide to upgrade some day, you do not have to worry about the WAF factor as they will never be seen.
> 
> It also makes for a clean screen wall - thus allowing you to remove any distractions from the picture. I wish my space was bigger - I would have definitely gone this way.


Interesting, I'll look into that.


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## devildog1679

So I decided on the Epson 8350. My thoughts are on ceiling mounting it. It would be placed smack in the middle of the room so that I could use either ends as the screen and this way I won’t have to change any setting on it since the throw distance will be the same. The room is 30’x11’x8’(LxWxH), so at 15’ throw the screen will be 112” Diagonal, 55” H, 98”L. Calculation attached. This gives me about 1.5’ at both the bottom, top, and side of screens. Any thoughts on this set-up? I’m a newbee at this but if I wanted to, would I be able to adjust the screen size without having to move the projector? Oh and due to kids I will be mounting all my speakers high up on the walls. I know for the fronts this is not optimal but I don’t want floor stands and my wife does not want a mid-wall shelf. 

On the screen, what are thoughts on a regular manual screen vs. a painted wall screen?


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## ALMFamily

Good choice on the projector. Yes, you can adjust the screen size without moving the projector. It will affect the lumen output at the screen - but I don't think it would be a big difference.


If you are a DIY type of person, I would take a look at doing your own screen. It would allow you to determine the size you want and save you a bit of money as well. The DIY screen moderators - Harp and Mech - really know their stuff and are extremely helpful.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Good choice on the projector. Yes, you can adjust the screen size without moving the projector. It will affect the lumen output at the screen - but I don't think it would be a big difference.
> 
> 
> If you are a DIY type of person, I would take a look at doing your own screen. It would allow you to determine the size you want and save you a bit of money as well. The DIY screen moderators - Harp and Mech - really know their stuff and are extremely helpful.


Yea, already posted in that area.


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## devildog1679

So I have the Projector (Epson 8350) and Mount (Peerless PRJ-UNV) picked, the paint for screen and other walls picked as well as all the cables needed. Originally I was going to run a DVI to projector but the HTIB I’m looking at all have DVI inputs . The one sticking point now is the HTIB, there are three I am looking at Onkyo 8400, 8409, & 9400THX. The main difference the 9400 and the other two are that the 84’s have floor front speakers while the 9400 has book shelf. Also the 9400 has a 12” sub vs. 10” on the others and the 9400 speakers are all Acoustic suspension vs. Bass reflex. The price are $400, $500, $600 respectively. 

So is the 9400THX really that much better? The other thing I’m not too sure about is the mounting. I wanted to stay away from floor speakers other than the sub due to small kids and didn’t want to take up room. My wife also is not too keen on having the front speakers mounted on the wall at ear level, that would also mean running more wire to those locations. That leaves me with high wall mounted speakers which I know is not optimal for the fronts or center speaker. This is where it gets tricky I think. The 9400 has front speakers that measure 6x17x13(WxHxD) and weigh 11.7 lb.’s. I found a mount that can support the fronts but not sure how they would look? So in short I’m torn between the floor mounted 84’s due to simple installation and the 9400 which might be better all-around speakers but may look weired wall mounted high. 

Any thoughts?


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## ALMFamily

I have a feeling the deciding factor there will be the WAF - she may think that those bigger speakers up in the corners are an eyesore. What are her thoughts?


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> I have a feeling the deciding factor there will be the WAF - she may think that those bigger speakers up in the corners are an eyesore. What are her thoughts?


I’m going to make a cardboard speaker to the same dimensions and see what she thinks. Assuming she was fine with floor or high wall mounted ones, which system has the better speakers? I don’t know enough to choose between the 9400 or the 8400. They also have different receivers, the 8400 has the NR-609 while the 9400 has the HT-R990. Below is a description of both with the first being the NR-609.


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## devildog1679

Went ahead and bought the 9400THX 

Getting the projector this weekend. I thought I had in narrowed down to the *Epson 8350 for $999 *but now I also see I can get the *6500UB also for $999 *or the *8500UB for $100 *more. Which is the better projector?


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## ALMFamily

I think the 8500 is discontinued, is it not? If that is the case, I would personally probably lean closer to the 8350.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> I think the 8500 is discontinued, is it not? If that is the case, I would personally probably lean closer to the 8350.


Yes it is discontinued, all the reviews on it from a year ago have it as a notch better than the 8350 primarilly due to 200,000:1 contrast which in a pitch black room would out do the 8350. For an extra $100 is it worth it. Both are refurbs and carry the same 2 year warranty. Link to comparison review below.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424829/epson-8500ub-vs-8350-a-modern-take


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## ALMFamily

Ah - if they are both refurbs, I would probably go with the 8500 then.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Ah - if they are both refurbs, I would probably go with the 8500 then.


I like refurbish, your money goes further  my whole system is going to be refurbish products.


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> I like refurbish, your money goes further  my whole system is going to be refurbish products.


Agreed - my Palladium amps, Salk L/C/R, and both my subs are all used. You can really find some great deals if you are patient enough.


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## devildog1679

So now the question is do I go with a THX or Dolby 7.1 surround layout? Differences are shown in the link
below. The 9400 is THX I/S and has THX modes as well as Dolby. So which should I use? 

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/


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## sdurani

devildog1679 said:


> So now the question is do I go with a THX or Dolby 7.1 surround layout?


I would go with the Dolby layout, which is about the same as the alternate THX layout that has the Rear speakers 60° apart: 










Our human hearing is not very good behind us, so spreading the Rear speakers apart will help you hear left-vs-right stereo imaging behind you. 

The easy way to figure out a 60° separation is to measure from your main seat to the back wall and multiply by 1.2 to get the spread. So if the back wall is 5 feet behind you, then your Rear speakers should be roughly 6 feet apart (5 x 1.2 = 6). 

Make sure the side speakers are directly to the sides of your main listening postition, in order to get stable lateral imaging and distinct rear-vs-side separation in the surround field.


----------



## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> I would go with the Dolby layout, which is about the same as the alternate THX layout that has the Rear speakers 60° apart:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Our human hearing is not very good behind us, so spreading the Rear speakers apart will help you hear left-vs-right stereo imaging behind you.
> 
> The easy way to figure out a 60° separation is to measure from your main seat to the back wall and multiply by 1.2 to get the spread. So if the back wall is 5 feet behind you, then your Rear speakers should be roughly 6 feet apart (5 x 1.2 = 6).
> 
> Make sure the side speakers are directly to the sides of your main listening postition, in order to get stable lateral imaging and distinct rear-vs-side separation in the surround field.


I'm going to eventually have two rows so should I use the front, rear or middle of the rows for speaker placement? My seating position will be at 15' at its closest to the back wall. The back wall is only 11'


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## sdurani

devildog1679 said:


> I'm going to eventually have two rows so should I use the front, rear or middle of the rows for speaker placement?


Where are you going to calibrate levels and distances from? I would put the Side speakers directly to the sides of that location.


devildog1679 said:


> My seating position will be at 15' at its closest to the back wall. The back wall is only 11'


If 11' is the most that you can spread the Rear speakers apart, that means the Rears should be 9' behind the Side speakers in order to get the 60° separation recommended in the Dolby and THX diagrams. To simplify: all surround speakers mounted on the side walls, Side speakers mounted 15' from the back wall, Rear speakers mounted 6' from back wall. 

Should sound awesome once everthing is dialed in.


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## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> Where are you going to calibrate levels and distances from? I would put the Side speakers directly to the sides of that location. If 11' is the most that you can spread the Rear speakers apart, that means the Rears should be 9' behind the Side speakers in order to get the 60° separation recommended in the Dolby and THX diagrams. To simplify: all surround speakers mounted on the side walls, Side speakers mounted 15' from the back wall, Rear speakers mounted 6' from back wall.
> 
> Should sound awesome once everthing is dialed in.


I was planning on putting the Microphone in the first row for Calibration since this will be the main listening position. I wanted to avoid floor speakers and wanted to use the back wall for mounting the rear surrounds. So at this point I may have to rethink the mounting of rear surrounds.


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## sdurani

devildog1679 said:


> I wanted to avoid floor speakers and wanted to use the back wall for mounting the rear surrounds. So at this point I may have to rethink the mounting of rear surrounds.


Not sure what "floor speakers" have to do with any of this. 

IF mounting the Rear speakers on the side walls is a big problem, then just mount the Rears on the back wall, spreading them as far apart as possible (back corners). Remember, our hearing is not so good behind us, so precise placement back there isn't critical. As long as you can clearly separate sounds that are coming from the sides vs sounds coming from behind you, the 7.1 layout will work. 

The main reason Dolby and THX recommend spreading the Rear speakers at least 60° apart is to make it easier to hear stereo separation behind you. So if you can mount them on the side walls with the proper separation, then that would be ideal. But if you can't, and have to mount them on the back wall, it will still work. Don't stress over this. 

BTW, any chance you could move your main seating so that it is 12' or 18' from the back wall? The reason I ask is because sitting at even divisions (1/2, 1/4) of a room dimension typically means very uneven frequency response whereas odd divisions (1/3, 1/5) tend to yield much smoother frequency response (fewer/smaller peaks and dips). So instead of sitting at the midpoint of the room length (15'), which is probably the worst place in the room for smooth response, you'd be better off moving the seating a few feet so that you are at one of the 1/5th divisions (12' or 18').


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## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> Not sure what "floor speakers" have to do with any of this.
> 
> IF mounting the Rear speakers on the side walls is a big problem, then just mount the Rears on the back wall, spreading them as far apart as possible (back corners). Remember, our hearing is not so good behind us, so precise placement back there isn't critical. As long as you can clearly separate sounds that are coming from the sides vs sounds coming from behind you, the 7.1 layout will work.
> 
> The main reason Dolby and THX recommend spreading the Rear speakers at least 60° apart is to make it easier to hear stereo separation behind you. So if you can mount them on the side walls with the proper separation, then that would be ideal. But if you can't, and have to mount them on the back wall, it will still work. Don't stress over this.
> 
> BTW, any chance you could move your main seating so that it is 12' or 18' from the back wall? The reason I ask is because sitting at even divisions (1/2, 1/4) of a room dimension typically means very uneven frequency response whereas odd divisions (1/3, 1/5) tend to yield much smoother frequency response (fewer/smaller peaks and dips). So instead of sitting at the midpoint of the room length (15'), which is probably the worst place in the room for smooth response, you'd be better off moving the seating a few feet so that you are at one of the 1/5th divisions (12' or 18').


Yes, 12' will be what I will be setting the first row at. I've read conflicting remarks on the rear surrounds. Some say 1/3 of back wall, THX certified systems which mine is recommends haveing both rear close together, or at most 4' apart. Then regular 7.1 at 130 to 150 degrees?


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## sdurani

devildog1679 said:


> Yes, 12' will be what I will be setting the first row at.


Is that 12' from the back wall or front wall?


devildog1679 said:


> I've read conflicting remarks on the rear surrounds. Some say 1/3 of back wall, THX certified systems which mine is recommends haveing both rear close together, or at most 4' apart. Then regular 7.1 at 130 to 150 degrees?


Just use common sense when deciding. The two Rear speakers of a 7.1 set-up receive different signals (i.e., they're run in stereo, not dual-mono). If you're sitting 12 feet away from the back wall, will you be able to hear left-vs-right separation behind you with the Rear speakers only 4' apart?


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## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> Is that 12' from the back wall or front wall? Just use common sense when deciding. The two Rear speakers of a 7.1 set-up receive different signals (i.e., they're run in stereo, not dual-mono). If you're sitting 12 feet away from the back wall, will you be able to hear left-vs-right separation behind you with the Rear speakers only 4' apart?


12' from front so 18' from rear. I don't know enough about HT so I'm just going by what Dolby and THX recommend and I guess if I run my system in THX modes they recommend having them at most 4' apart but idealy less than 1'. If i go with a Dolby set-up at 18' from rear wall and all the way in the corner (5.5' from center) I'll have a 165 degree angle. Not within the 135-150 degrees recomended. In order to get the ideal angle I will have to place the rear surrounds on the side walls about 8' back from the side srrounds which will be at 90 degrees. 

So it comes back to do I set up for THX or Dolby? If I choose THX does them being 18' behind me matter?


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## devildog1679

The room is 30’x11’x8’6”(LxWxH) with only one door and no windows. Audio is Onkyo 9400 THX (7.1 THX cert), Video Epson 8500UB. Will be projecting a 98” screen which makes it 4’ high and 7’ long. Seating position will be 12’ from screen. Center as well as L&R speakers will be mounted on the front wall 40” from floor. This means the screen will be 2’ from top and start right above the center channel. The L&R will be 1’ from edge of side wall. L&R side surrounds will be 6’ high and at about 1’ behind the main listening position. The rear surrounds are the ones I’m having trouble with.

1. Can the front L&R be closer than 1’ from the side wall? I ask because if I can move them closer to the walls I can go from a 98” screen to up to a 112” if desired . 
2. Rear Surround set-up- THX recommended of the rear surrounds together or traditional set-up Dolby recommended of the rears at 135-150 degrees?
3. Assuming I go with THX set-up, the rears will be 18’ from listening position. Is that too far back? Speaker specs below. Speaker stands are not an option with a 1 year old running around. 
4. Assuming I go traditional, due to speaker to listening position distance the best I can get is 165 degree which is out of range. Is this too far out of spec? If not, is the 18’ distance to speaker to much? A solution to both is to place the rear surrounds on the side walls vs. the rear wall at 8’ back from listening position. This yields a 145 degree angle. 

Thoughts on this?

View attachment Onkyo 9400 Speakers.pdf


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## sdurani

devildog1679 said:


> I guess if I run my system in THX modes they recommend having them at most 4' apart but idealy less than 1'.


Placing the rears that close together will effectively make your system sound like a 6.1 set-up: i.e., you'll hear sounds behind you but without left-vs-right separation, thereby negating stereo surround-back channels (like having a mono channel back there).


devildog1679 said:


> In order to get the ideal angle I will have to place the rear surrounds on the side walls about 8' back from the side srrounds which will be at 90 degrees.


Only if you want to hear the rear channels in stereo. If that's not a concern, then you can put them on the back wall. BTW, not telling you want to do, just letting you know what you'll be sacrificing by placing your rear speakers so close to each other.


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## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> BTW, not telling you want to do, just letting you know what you'll be sacrificing by placing your rear speakers so close to each other.


I hear you, a simple project became complicated with a little knowledge It will look and sound bad a%# though. All your input is welcomed.



sdurani said:


> Placing the rears that close together will effectively make your system sound like a 6.1 set-up: i.e., you'll hear sounds behind you but without left-vs-right separation, thereby negating stereo surround-back channels (like having a mono channel back there).


So why would THX recommend it as their preffered set-up?

From THX site
*"Surround Back Left & Right Speakers (SBL & SBR)*: The SBL & SBR speakers should be the direct firing type and placed together on the back wall. This allows the THX Advanced Speaker Array, or ASA technology to deliver its maximum effect. If the SBL and the SBR speakers can not be placed together, refer to your THX Certified Pre-amplifier or Receiver’s “THX Set Up” menu for alternative configurations."*

http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-surround-sound-modes/

http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-av-receiver-features/


----------



## sdurani

devildog1679 said:


> So why would THX recommend it as their preffered set-up?


Better question: why have they gone back to recommending that the Rear speakers be spread 60° apart? 

From the very begining, THX has always recommended spreading the Rear speakers apart on 7.1 set-ups, even when there was a mono surround-back channel (5.1 EX or 6.1 soundtracks). When they announced their Ultra2 spec, they switched to having the Rears right next to each other. With 7.1 soundtracks being released over the last 6 years, they've gone back to recommending the Rears being spread 60° apart (as you can see if you scroll down the THX set-up page you linked to). 

Like I said earlier, rather than take my recommendation or wonder why THX would make a different recommendation, just use your own common sense. You know that your Rear speakers will be reproducing a stereo signal. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you want to hear that stereo separation behind you or do you want to hear it as a mono blur behind you. Your answer will determine whether you put your Rear speaker next to each other or spread them apart.


----------



## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> Better question: why have they gone back to recommending that the Rear speakers be spread 60° apart?
> 
> From the very begining, THX has always recommended spreading the Rear speakers apart on 7.1 set-ups, even when there was a mono surround-back channel (5.1 EX or 6.1 soundtracks). When they announced their Ultra2 spec, they switched to having the Rears right next to each other. With 7.1 soundtracks being released over the last 6 years, they've gone back to recommending the Rears being spread 60° apart (as you can see if you scroll down the THX set-up page you linked to).
> 
> Like I said earlier, rather than take my recommendation or wonder why THX would make a different recommendation, just use your own common sense. You know that your Rear speakers will be reproducing a stereo signal. The question you have to ask yourself is whether you want to hear that stereo separation behind you or do you want to hear it as a mono blur behind you. Your answer will determine whether you put your Rear speaker next to each other or spread them apart.


Yea, I decided to pre-wire for both and then put on a movie and test both options. Thanks for the input. Now I'm wondering if 12' seating distance is enough for a 98" screen.


----------



## sdurani

devildog1679 said:


> I'm wondering if 12' seating distance is enough for a 98" screen.


That will give you a 33° viewing angle. Not immersive enough for me. For that sort of seating distance, I would go with a 120" screen to get me closer to a 40° viewing angle. A couple of friends in my local home theatre group have 106" screens and sit 10-11 feet away. 

Viewing Distance Calculator


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## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> That will give you a 33° viewing angle. Not immersive enough for me. For that sort of seating distance, I would go with a 120" screen to get me closer to a 40° viewing angle. A couple of friends in my local home theatre group have 106" screens and sit 10-11 feet away.
> 
> Viewing Distance Calculator


That calculator was great, thanks. WIth the fronts at 1' from the edge I can do up to a 106" screen which puts me at 36 deg., optomal according to THX for my view distance.


----------



## devildog1679

Since my room is really long at 30' I decided to forgo back wall speaker locations. My side and rear surrounds will mount on side wall at 6' high with the side surrounds at 90 deg. and the rear surrounds at 150 deg. I decided to run wire for possible front high's, these would be mounted at 3' about the fronts. This way if 9.1 ever becomes popular I can just add the front highs or instead of using rear surrounds I can use front highs.


----------



## sdurani

IF you have tall people at home, then you might want to consider mounting the 4 surrounds slightly higher: 6-footers at home (and visitors) are less likely to bump their heads if the speakers are mounted 7' high. BTW, depending on mounts, try pointing all 4 surrounds roughly towards the listening area (for better imaging and smoother/flatter frequency response). 

While there are standardized locations for Side and Rear speakers, no such consensus exists for Heights (too new). To that end, Harman International has been doing some blind testing on Height speaker locations to see what listeners prefer most. When placed above the Front L/R speakers, listeners weren't too thrilled, since it just gave a taller soundstage and no real sense of height (as in sounds above you). The locations that were most preferred turned out to be between the Fronts and Sides, mounted on the ceiling, pointed down. That placement gave a much better impression of sounds coming from above. 

Just stuff to think about when pre-wiring.


----------



## devildog1679

sdurani said:


> IF you have tall people at home, then you might want to consider mounting the 4 surrounds slightly higher: 6-footers at home (and visitors) are less likely to bump their heads if the speakers are mounted 7' high. BTW, depending on mounts, try pointing all 4 surrounds roughly towards the listening area (for better imaging and smoother/flatter frequency response).
> 
> While there are standardized locations for Side and Rear speakers, no such consensus exists for Heights (too new). To that end, Harman International has been doing some blind testing on Height speaker locations to see what listeners prefer most. When placed above the Front L/R speakers, listeners weren't too thrilled, since it just gave a taller soundstage and no real sense of height (as in sounds above you). The locations that were most preferred turned out to be between the Fronts and Sides, mounted on the ceiling, pointed down. That placement gave a much better impression of sounds coming from above.
> 
> Just stuff to think about when pre-wiring.


7' may be a good idea. The mounts I'm using will be able to swivel and rotate easily. So the rear surrounds will point towards seating area. As for the fronts, I may do more research, still have a few weeks before final wiring. Thanks


----------



## devildog1679

So I received the 9400THX on Monday and I set it up in my living room to make sure everything was working fine. Obviously placement was not optimized but that think sound wicked. It’s going to sound awesome in my HTR. Cant’s wait.


----------



## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> So I received the 9400THX on Monday and I set it up in my living room to make sure everything was working fine. Obviously placement was not optimized but that think sound wicked. It’s going to sound awesome in my HTR. Cant’s wait.


Good to hear everything is working - be sure to let us know how it sounds when it hits it's final resting place!


----------



## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Good to hear everything is working - be sure to let us know how it sounds when it hits it's final resting place!


Will do  Even though I can't get to crazy with insulation. I'm wondering if there is something better than regular Owens Corning R-19? I heard cellulose might be better than fiberglass. My contractor said he will put what ever I want but anything over the cost of R-19 will need to be covered by me. So is there something better than that? Planning on 5/8 drywall for walls and ceiling.


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## ALMFamily

Fiberglass should work just fine. IMO, if you go any thicker, you may start to compress it and you don't want to do that because then it does not absorb as well.


----------



## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Fiberglass should work just fine. IMO, if you go any thicker, you may start to compress it and you don't want to do that because then it does not absorb as well.


OK, Thanks


----------



## devildog1679

I have a question. I will have 8 recessed can lights. I would like to use a IR/RF dimmer since I have a Harmony 900 universal remote that can control most IR/RF products. I want the ability to dim the lights in groups of 4, meaning keeping the back 4 on while dimming the front 4 for TV viewing. My problem is that if I go with Lutron all their IR dimmers work off the same code, so dimming one will dim both. A solution they mentioned was to use their Spacer system, this would allow me to set up to 5 different scenes as they all it. Basically they are preset light levels. The problem is that the system will run well over $200. One other solution is to go with two different brand IP/RF dimmers that way they have different codes and I can program the remote to control them. Lutron is one but I can’t seem to find any other companies that make IR dimmers that are compatible with the Harmony 900.

Any ideas?


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## ALMFamily

I can't recall what he used, but I think that Aaron (PTAaron) used something other than Lutron. If you want, check out his build thread or maybe shoot him a PM. I think there are a couple other that dim lights using their Harmony remotes - Prof and Dale Rasco pop to mind.......


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> I can't recall what he used, but I think that Aaron (PTAaron) used something other than Lutron. If you want, check out his build thread or maybe shoot him a PM. I think there are a couple other that dim lights using their Harmony remotes - Prof and Dale Rasco pop to mind.......


OK, Thanks


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## phillihp23

This is pretty interesting....Networked Light Bulb, LED Dimmable Insteon

World's first networked dimmable light bulb 
Energy-saving, 8W LED bulb shines as brightly as a 60W incandescent bulb 
Software configurable: link to additional controllers, add to scenes and customize ramp rates and brightness levels 
Up to 52,000 hour life 
Featuring dual-band INSTEON technology for the fastest and most reliable performance 


http://www.smarthome.com/2672-222/INSTEON-LED-Bulb/p.aspx


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## devildog1679

phillihp23 said:


> This is pretty interesting....Networked Light Bulb, LED Dimmable Insteon
> 
> World's first networked dimmable light bulb
> Energy-saving, 8W LED bulb shines as brightly as a 60W incandescent bulb
> Software configurable: link to additional controllers, add to scenes and customize ramp rates and brightness levels
> Up to 52,000 hour life
> Featuring dual-band INSTEON technology for the fastest and most reliable performance
> 
> 
> http://www.smarthome.com/2672-222/INSTEON-LED-Bulb/p.aspx


Interesting but not for me. I just want to control 2 zones with my Harmony :hissyfit:


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## devildog1679

So it turns out the Lutron Maestro has a preset level that I can pregram them to go to when I give that command. Essentially I can preset the front ones to 0% light and the bck ones to 100%. Exactly what I need.


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## ALMFamily

:yay2: Good to hear!


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> :yay2: Good to hear!


Much easier to deal with just one brand. Went to go look at paint yesterday, I found a nice dark brown but with the screen wall being a Light grey it might not go well. I think a dark grey would be best for the other walls, would flow better with the screen wall. Found some decent berber carpet at HD, anything special for the padding. Was thinking about regular 1/2". Thoughts?


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> Much easier to deal with just one brand. Went to go look at paint yesterday, I found a nice dark brown but with the screen wall being a Light grey it might not go well. I think a dark grey would be best for the other walls, would flow better with the screen wall. Found some decent berber carpet at HD, anything special for the padding. Was thinking about regular 1/2". Thoughts?


I forget - why did you decide on the light grey for the screen wall? I am just thinking that it would be best to go with the dark grey on the screen wall and the light grey on the walls - it will make the screen pop more IMO.

As far as carpet, I went with Coyle - they are offering a free installation deal right now. The pad I went with was their moisture resistant one - it is 1/2" (IIRC) - I am just overly concerned about moisture since it is in the basement and I have had water in that room before although I sealed every crack I found before I did the Dri-Core.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> I forget - why did you decide on the light grey for the screen wall? I am just thinking that it would be best to go with the dark grey on the screen wall and the light grey on the walls - it will make the screen pop more IMO.


Harpmaker suggested it in my other thread. His words"If you are going to get your paint at Home Depot (they don't sell Sherwin-Williams or Valspar paints) I would get Behr #1850 paint (that's the number on the can) tinted to Glidden 'Universal Gray' (~N8.3). That color is between the two shades of gray I told you about before and would be a good compromise for overall viewing in your situation"



ALMFamily said:


> As far as carpet, I went with Coyle - they are offering a free installation deal right now. The pad I went with was their moisture resistant one - it is 1/2" (IIRC) - I am just overly concerned about moisture since it is in the basement and I have had water in that room before although I sealed every crack I found before I did the Dri-Core.


Coyle, huh good to know. HD has a $37 install but their carpet choice is limited. I'll check Coyle out. 

On a side note, how do I get this thread moved to the "Home Theater Design and Construction" section? It probably fits there better especially when the construction begins.


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> Harpmaker suggested it in my other thread. His words"If you are going to get your paint at Home Depot (they don't sell Sherwin-Williams or Valspar paints) I would get Behr #1850 paint (that's the number on the can) tinted to Glidden 'Universal Gray' (~N8.3). That color is between the two shades of gray I told you about before and would be a good compromise for overall viewing in your situation"


Ah, you mean the screen itself. I am pretty certain that is what Harp meant when he suggested this paint. As far as the screen wall that is not the screen, I was thinking doing a darker color there.




devildog1679 said:


> Coyle, huh good to know. HD has a $37 install but their carpet choice is limited. I'll check Coyle out.
> 
> On a side note, how do I get this thread moved to the "Home Theater Design and Construction" section? It probably fits there better especially when the construction begins.


My suggestion would be to start a construction thread at that point. Most of the thread so far is a discussion of equipment and probably fits better here. You can always put a link to this thread in your sig like I did with mine....


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Ah, you mean the screen itself. I am pretty certain that is what Harp meant when he suggested this paint. As far as the screen wall that is not the screen, I was thinking doing a darker color there.


I was thinking of just painting the whole screen wall the color he suggested that way I can go larger if I want. Will I have any issue painting the whole wall the color he suggested? Did I misunderstand his responce? 



ALMFamily said:


> My suggestion would be to start a construction thread at that point. Most of the thread so far is a discussion of equipment and probably fits better here. You can always put a link to this thread in your sig like I did with mine....


OK, starting one since I have some HVAC questions.


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## ALMFamily

It is probably a preference thing for me - I am planning to run a border around my screen and doing the rest of the wall black. My thinking on this is that is will make the picture stand out all the more.

Of course, I am just getting started on finishing the screen wall so we will see how that plays out...... :bigsmile:


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> It is probably a preference thing for me - I am planning to run a border around my screen and doing the rest of the wall black. My thinking on this is that is will make the picture stand out all the more.
> 
> Of course, I am just getting started on finishing the screen wall so we will see how that plays out...... :bigsmile:


My screen will take up most the wall, only leaving about 1’ on each side, 1’ up top and 4’ on the bottom. But I could always paint after the fact.


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## lanayapiper

devildog1679 said:


> Thanks, hey can centerline speakers go on top by ceiling or do they have to go down low?


If I were you, the centerline speakers should go down low. The sound results are more lively and vibrant. The surround will perfectly match this setup.


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## devildog1679

lanayapiper said:


> If I were you, the centerline speakers should go down low. The sound results are more lively and vibrant. The surround will perfectly match this setup.


Yea, I decided to move the screen up and place the centerline at 40” from the floor.


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## phillihp23

Looking forward to seeing this build come together....sounds like some good planning going on. :sn:


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## devildog1679

Started on the walls today as well as the bathroom. Also decided to add a zipline, tree house and climbing wall on the kids side of the basement. This is the reason I had to scale back ont he soundproofing. So no GG for me


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## rab-byte

Post pictures as your project comes to life.


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## devildog1679

rab-byte said:


> Post pictures as your project comes to life.


Will do but it will be in my build thread. Just had a hickup yesterday


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## devildog1679

Framing and electrical is just about done. Deciding on speaker wire route as well as projector wires route. Other than a HDMI cable to connect the projector to the receiver what other cable should I run to the projector. I was told a DVI for the laptop but my receiver has a DVI connection so I can just connect the laptop to the receiver. The receiver also has a Ethernet connection so I think just the HDMI connecting the receiver to projector is needed.


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## ALMFamily

I would run a CAT line to the projector as well as a 2nd HDMI. The CAT line for future proofing and the 2nd HDMI just in case you have issues with the 1st to make sure you have no HT downtime.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> I would run a CAT line to the projector as well as a 2nd HDMI. The CAT line for future proofing and the 2nd HDMI just in case you have issues with the 1st to make sure you have no HT downtime.


Would running a 2" conduit suffice? That way I can just run the one HDMI and a pull string. Then pull what ever wire I need? 

On a side note been meaning to stop by to see your place but work and sick kids have been an obstacle.


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> Would running a 2" conduit suffice? That way I can just run the one HDMI and a pull string. Then pull what ever wire I need?
> 
> On a side note been meaning to stop by to see your place but work and sick kids have been an obstacle.


That would sure do it as well.

No problem - we just got back from Disney yesterday and now my wife and daughter are sick as well.


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> That would sure do it as well.
> 
> No problem - we just got back from Disney yesterday and now my wife and daughter are sick as well.


Ha, we're going to Disney this weekend. Switching roles


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## ALMFamily

Take comfortable shoes! :rofl:


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## devildog1679

Wiring up a few things and realized I’m going to need a 8-way splitter in order to get signal to all the rooms. I found a few on line are any better than others? Is there going to be signal degradation? If so do I need an amplifier? Which one?


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## ALMFamily

Are we talking about cable? If so, do you have Charter?


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## devildog1679

ALMFamily said:


> Are we talking about cable? If so, do you have Charter?


Yes, Charter. The main line enters at the basement by the electricle box, they have a 4 way splitter currently with 4 cables then goinjg to each room. I now need 3 more cables. Not sure if repalcing the 4 way with an 8 way will degrade the signal. If it does would an AMP before the splitter work? Wonder if charter can do this for me for free?


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## ALMFamily

devildog1679 said:


> Yes, Charter. The main line enters at the basement by the electricle box, they have a 4 way splitter currently with 4 cables then goinjg to each room. I now need 3 more cables. Not sure if repalcing the 4 way with an 8 way will degrade the signal. If it does would an AMP before the splitter work? Wonder if charter can do this for me for free?


Pretty sure they do - I had them in last year and they put in an 8 way whhen they added a couple lines. Pretty sure I did not get charged.


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## devildog1679

Found this bad boy 

http://www.smarthome.com/21624/Cooper-Wiring-Devices-CSHAV8-1x8-Amplified-Video-Splitter-1GHz/p.aspx


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## devildog1679

In deciding ear level for the fronts do I use the tweeter center point or the midpoint b/w tweeter and woofer?


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