# 7.1 Floorstander System - any specific tips/hints for best set-up???



## Guest (Oct 28, 2007)

Hi guys,

Have just received my last pair of Monitor Audio Bronze Reference BR5's, which I'm now using as a 7 channel (with the Monitor Audio BR-LCR Centre) system.

Thing is, I've *never* had a complete 'floor-standing' speaker set-up before, so been in 'virgin territory' so to speak, are there any hints/tips that I should be aware of that wouldn't normally apply to book-shelf/stand-mount speakers? Or are things more-or-less the same?

Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated :T

With my thanks in advance,

DC


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Hmmm,... not from me. I am jealous though. Wish I had 7 floor standers. Fact is I kinda wish I had seven speakers for my main HT system,... maybe one day i'll get the other two.

I'm sure someone will come along soon with some tips for you.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2007)

nova said:


> Hmmm,... not from me. I am jealous though. Wish I had 7 floor standers. Fact is I kinda wish I had seven speakers for my main HT system,... maybe one day i'll get the other two.


Hi Nova,

:thankyou:

But no need to be _too_ envious; I'd say my set-up is quite modest (I know of peeps with *much* higher-end stuff than me), but hey, IMHO it's always nice to have something to aim for; I've had 6.1 and 7.1 for around 6 years now, and I wouldn't be without my back 2 anymore. Really can add a worthwhile difference, more related to soundstaging etc. But yeah, having 6 *floors* with a dedicated centre is something I've been looking forward to for some time...



nova said:


> I'm sure someone will come along soon with some tips for you.


 Hope so; I'm just applying the basics of normal 'bookshelf' positioning, bass-management etc - it seems that there's probably not too many HT owners (at least on the forums) who have all floors as I've also asked this on a AV forum here in England and zero replies as well :dunno:

Anyway, my thanks again mate :T

Best wishes,

DC


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I know SteveCallas just got towers all around... Towers All Over ... I'll see if he can chime in.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

I can offer a few tips. To maintain solid center imaging and good soundstage from the mains, try to keep the center floorstander behind them depth wise. Try to keep it at least 1' behind the mains if you can manage. For the side surrounds, you'll probably want some way to elevate the floorstanders, as typical tweeter height on a tower is ~36-40", and it should be ~1-2' higher than ear level for side surrounds. For rears, though it may look silly, you'll want even more elevation, 2-3' above ear level. You do this because you don't want the source of surround information to be too locatable, you want more of a diffuse sound. Your preferences may very, but I also find I like my side surrounds to be parallel to my seat and aimed slightly behind me.

Oh, one more thing. If your towers are rear ported, give the surrounds a bit of breathing room behind the speaker - don't put it flush against a wall. Whatever the diameter of the port, give it at least that much clearance from the nearest wall.


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2007)

Sonnie said:


> I know SteveCallas just got towers all around... Towers All Over ... I'll see if he can chime in.


:thankyou: Sonnie,

Really appreciated....

DC


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## Guest (Oct 29, 2007)

SteveCallas said:


> I can offer a few tips.......For the side surrounds, you'll probably want some way to elevate the floorstanders, as typical tweeter height on a tower is ~36-40", and it should be ~1-2' higher than ear level for side surrounds.


Hi Steve,

Very grateful for the tips. I had thought about the likelihood that raising the side and rears might be useful, but wondered how the **** I'd do it. What do you use for 'elevation' for the sides/rears? Would you recommend something such as a small(ish) wooden plinth, or would something much more solid (small paving slabs) be better?



SteveCallas said:


> .....your preferences may very, but I also find I like my side surrounds to be parallel to my seat and aimed slightly behind me


Will try this, sounds interesting. I have mine slightly behind me just aimed a little toward the 'sweet spot' at the mo...



SteveCallas said:


> Oh, one more thing. If your towers are rear ported, give the surrounds a bit of breathing room behind the speaker - don't put it flush against a wall. Whatever the diameter of the port, give it at least that much clearance from the nearest wall.


Great stuff; really appreciate the advice :T

All the very best,

DC


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

> I had thought about the likelihood that raising the side and rears might be useful, but wondered how the **** I'd do it. What do you use for 'elevation' for the sides/rears? Would you recommend something such as a small(ish) wooden plinth, or would something much more solid (small paving slabs) be better?


In that thread of mine, you'll see that I put one on top of an end table and another mounted on a DIY speaker stand. Had I known I'd be using that stand for a tower inseatd of a bookshelf at the time I made it, I would have made it thicker for aesthetics, but it's plenty sturdy enough as is. I don't know what the height of your towers is, but I doubt a few paving slabs would be enough to raise the tweeter height sufficiently.


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## Guest (Oct 30, 2007)

SteveCallas said:


> In that thread of mine, you'll see that I put one on top of an end table and another mounted on a DIY speaker stand. Had I known I'd be using that stand for a tower inseatd of a bookshelf at the time I made it, I would have made it thicker for aesthetics, but it's plenty sturdy enough as is.


Cheers Steve :T

Sounds like wooden pedestal(s)/plinth(s) would be more than suitable - as a bit of a DIY enthusiast myself, that suits me :bigsmile:; fortunately I have a good bit of pine lying around :yes:



SteveCallas said:


> I don't know what the height of your towers is, but I doubt a few paving slabs would be enough to raise the tweeter height sufficiently.


I s'pose I'm in the (again) fortunate position that my *Monitor-Audio BR5*'s have the tweeter only - approx - an inch from the very top of the cabinet; so I assume that they won't need raising too much (my ear height is more-or-less 3' and the tweeter a couple of inch short of 3') :dontknow:

Thanks again Steve for the input,

Regards,

DC


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For the front speakers your placement is good the way you have them now but for the surrounds you do not want the speakers to be directly firing at your main listening position. the whole point of surround sound is that the rear speakers "fill" the space with sound not direct the sound to your ears. Most people get this wrong and loose some of the surround imaging that is sent to the rears. This is why most HT installations use "bookshelf" sized speakers mounted just above head hight when standing and angled slightly down.


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> For the front speakers your placement is good the way you have them now but for the surrounds you do not want the speakers to be directly firing at your main listening position. the whole point of surround sound is that the rear speakers "fill" the space with sound not direct the sound to your ears. Most people get this wrong and loose some of the surround imaging that is sent to the rears. This is why most HT installations use "bookshelf" sized speakers mounted just above head hight when standing and angled slightly down.


Hi Tony,

:thankyou: After plenty of experimenting with my previous and current speakers, I can see where you're coming from. Utilising the tips from Steve above, I'm in the process of building a couple of 6" plinths for my sides (have another idea to elevate my back rears) and am going to position them accordingly one finished. So I'm very optimistic that the extra height and 'new' placements should offer me the "optimum" listening experience with my new towers :bigsmile:

All the very best,

DC


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> For the front speakers your placement is good the way you have them now but for the surrounds you do not want the speakers to be directly firing at your main listening position. the whole point of surround sound is that the rear speakers "fill" the space with sound not direct the sound to your ears. Most people get this wrong and loose some of the surround imaging that is sent to the rears. This is why most HT installations use "bookshelf" sized speakers mounted just above head hight when standing and angled slightly down.


I think this is changing. Originally, the amount of specificity in the surround channels was minimal, e.g., with DPL, and a diffused surround dispersion was suitable. However, with discrete surround, and especially with discrete multichannel music, the use of dipole/bipole/wallwash speakers in the surround surrenders that specificity. My experience, and interest, is in music (not HT) and aiming the surrounds at the listening position affords better imaging without losing any of the "fill."

I try to keep all speakers at ear level.

Kal


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## Guest (Oct 31, 2007)

Kal Rubinson said:


> I think this is changing. Originally, the amount of specificity in the surround channels was minimal, e.g., with DPL, and a diffused surround dispersion was suitable. However, with discrete surround, and especially with discrete multichannel music, the use of dipole/bipole/wallwash speakers in the surround surrenders that specificity. My experience, and interest, is in music (not HT) and aiming the surrounds at the listening position affords better imaging without losing any of the "fill."
> 
> Kal


Hi Kal,

Interesting point, & in retrospect, I should have mentioned in my leader post that my set-up is also for multi-channel music, which was a big factor in my decision to upgrade (not to mention the full range hi-def audio formats) to 6 channel towers whilst steering away from the more 'traditional' bi-poles or bookshelfs. Indeed my music sounds so much better now than it ever did :clap: and to be fair, movies are more involving too, although I feel that should improve much more with the suggested elavations...

That said, it will be interesting to see how my music compares when I've elavated the sides & rears...

Thanks again :T

DC


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

I also switched from di/bi-poles to direct firing bookshelves for my surround speakers, and have them pointed at my head. I have an open room, so no reflections off side-firing speakers to contribute to the enveloping feel, direct firing sounds better for enveloping anyway in a 7.1 setup, to me at least. Plus, now when someone's voice or something moves into the rear channels, it doesn't sound like they magically moved into a different room.


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2007)

Josuah said:


> I also switched from di/bi-poles to direct firing bookshelves for my surround speakers, and have them pointed at my head. I have an open room, so no reflections off side-firing speakers to contribute to the enveloping feel, direct firing sounds better for enveloping anyway in a 7.1 setup, to me at least. Plus, now when someone's voice or something moves into the rear channels, it doesn't sound like they magically moved into a different room.


Hi Josuah,

I s'pose you could say it's like "swings and roundabouts" (don't know if that's a known adage in the U.S.:huh...but I do agree with you entirely - I had some Mission dipoles a couple of years ago and when I upgraded to bookshelf 'direct firers', I found certain FX did become slightly more localisable, but generally speaking, they offered a much more pleasing 'surround' experience for both music and movies.

And now with a 7.1 system, I can't recommend direct firers highly enough (not to mention using towers all round too:bigsmile...I mean, some of the 7.1 tracks on PS3 games are incredible...

Anyway, for those following the thread with any interest, I should be getting my side 'plinths' finished today, and my rears 'mini-tables' finished in a day or two. If people are interested, I'll report back with my opinions when done :T

Best regards,

DC


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

Hello!

I just have a question here. Why 7 towers? what is the benefit of having 7 fullrange speakers (if they are)?

What about room equalization then which is usually made for the most part through the sub(s)? What about phase issues as well?

Am I missing something?:dunno:


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## Guest (Nov 2, 2007)

blaser said:


> Hello!
> 
> I just have a question here. Why 7 towers? what is the benefit of having 7 fullrange speakers (if they are)?


Hi Blaser,

Well, no I don't have 7 towers - 6 actually in a 7.1 system, and yes they are full range. The benefit (IMHO) is more related to multi-channel music; PS3 games and the newer 'full-range' 7.1 (or usually 5.1 at the present) HD audio formats. I appreciate that the issue(s) are not that 'simple', but in a general (and laymans) way of speaking, that's why I've opted for 6 floor-standers as opposed to bookshelfs (which I _*did*_ have, up to this upgrade).



blaser said:


> What about room equalization then which is usually made for the most part through the sub(s)?


This isn't something I'm too big on, although my receivers built in 'equalisation' method ('Audessey') does an acceptable enough job IMHO.


blaser said:


> What about phase issues as well?


As far as I'm able to tell, this hasn't presented anything of a prob for me so far, but I confess that I haven't settled on 'concrete' positions for my towers yet, as I'm still 'experimenting' IYSWIM. Thus the motive for my leader post onder:



blaser said:


> Am I missing something?:dunno:


I think Steve Callas has a better idea of this than I (there's a link above for "Towers All Over") as he's had this type of set-up much longer than myself. But in a nutshell, I do believe my overall listening experience is better now than with bookshelfs...but I'm willing to concede that it could be a little subjective...

Anyway, that's my take on it :T

All the very best,

DC


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

I think blaser is thinking that you will be running all the towers full range, meaning as Large with no subwoofer. Hopefully that's not the case, as that very likely will present phase problems and create a poor FR. What I am doing and what I interpret you are as well is still using a subwoofer to handle redirected bass and the LFE channel, but just using towers for every speaker position instead of bookshleves for the better sensitivity, displacement, FR, power handling, and essentially an all around effortlessness of playback on even very demanding material.


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

Yes Steve, you got my point. But from Daddy Cool's post, I am afraid this is what he is doing. Another question raises to my mind Steve though: What is the benefit of 6 or 7 tower speakers if you use only "the bookshelf" part of it??

Front towers are generally for those of us who sometimes listen to stereo music without subwoofers, otherwise again I cannot see any real benefit, but the disadvantage of being more expensive.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Even if crossing over at 80hz, most bookshelf speakers just can't keep up in the 40-200hz range when things get demanding or you want to listen at spirited levels. An 80hz crossover still asks a speaker to play below 80hz, just at an ever decreasing level, and that can still be very taxing on a single 6.5" or so midwoofer, just as playing in the 100hz range at spirited volumes can be. If you have a monstrous subwoofer setup, like I know you do, then that 40-200hz range immediately becomes the weakest link with bookshlef speakers - I've experienced this myself. And that 80-200hz range is where the real "punch" is to bass from most instruments. So the towers give you more displacement, better sensitivity, flatter FR, and better power handling, again, all leading to a more all around effortless playback.

Now is this absolutely necessary? For surrounds, definitely not, but it's nice to have. For the front three speakers, I think towers are necessary if using a monster subwoofer system that you want to get the most out of.


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

I definitely agree with you about the 80-200 Hz importance in bass punch, and therefore the importance of strong speakers in the front stage, but forthe surrounds it is just a bit difficult for me to be justifiable(or for my applications to be more precise).

As far as I am concerned, my front stage is about 2 *150W RMS towers (dual 8" bass drivers), and a (wide) center (120W RMS) that has dual 6" woofers (sealed), a 3" midrange and 1" tweeter. The fronts are flat to 25 Hz, but the center to about 60 Hz. And I am very happy with this configuration.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Sounds good to me.


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

Also, 80Hz isn't actually the best crossover point for speakers, despite being the default setting and the THX-whatever recommendation. Voices can easily drop below 80Hz, and for some people the sound is still localizable below 80Hz. My mains are crossed over at 50Hz. My surrounds at 90Hz because that's where they measured best, even though they have ports and specs that are supposed to let them hit 50Hz easily.


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2007)

SteveCallas said:


> I think blaser is thinking that you will be running all the towers full range, meaning as Large with no subwoofer. Hopefully that's not the case


Hi again Steve & Blaser,

Yes, you're right, that is NOT the case...



SteveCallas said:


> .....what I interpret you are as well is still using a subwoofer to handle redirected bass and the LFE channel, but just using towers [...] for [...] essentially an all around effortlessness of playback on even very demanding material...


:T More-or-less spot on...



blaser said:


> ....But from Daddy Cool's post, I am afraid this is what he is doing.


Eeerrr :rubeyes: I am? As I say above, I'm *not*; I still have a sub (as in my sig) and I've experimented with running the towers at full range, and with various cross-over settings. I'm still not 100% settled on any particular configuration yet as I'm still in the process of sorting out the 'elevation'...


blaser said:


> ....Front towers are generally for those of us who sometimes listen to stereo music without subwoofers...


IMHO such notions probably stem from the generally accepted 'norm' for HT applications; but with the advent of uncompressed/lossless HD audio formats/multi-channel music this, I believe, is slowly changing the way we think about speaker configuration - let's not forget that the SACD & DVD-A formats recommend using *ALL* full-range speakers (i.e. towers) for each channel.

Anyway, hope that clears up any misunderstanding from my previous postings?

Regards as always,

DC


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## Guest (Nov 5, 2007)

SteveCallas said:


> [...] running the towers full range [...] with no subwoofer [...] will present phase problems and create a poor FR...


Hi Steve,

I wanted to ask this seperately; having experimented a bit, I find that when my floor-standers ARE set at 'full range' with no LPF crossover, I get a (subjective?) all-round, fuller/beefier, 'sharper' and generally more satisfying soundstage, than when I try various crossovers.

I've not done any direct 'scientific' measuring (i.e. Room-EQ Wizard etc), but from what you suggest, this *shouldn't* be the case, right? Any idea why this would be, or am I fooling myself? Should I be looking for something in particular, as I feel I'm missing something?

Thanks again :T

All the very best,

DC


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## Scuba Diver (Sep 28, 2007)

I was looking for suggestions too. However, in my situation in wall speakers are being used. 

I did run into some very intresting speaker layouts on the DOLBY website. 

http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/71-full-rear-surround.php


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Scuba Diver said:


> I was looking for suggestions too. However, in my situation in wall speakers are being used.
> 
> I did run into some very intresting speaker layouts on the DOLBY website.
> 
> http://www.dtsonline.com/dts-hd/71-full-rear-surround.php


That's not the Dolby website, is it? :heehee:

Kal


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

Daddy Cool said:


> I wanted to ask this seperately; having experimented a bit, I find that when my floor-standers ARE set at 'full range' with no LPF crossover, I get a (subjective?) all-round, fuller/beefier, 'sharper' and generally more satisfying soundstage, than when I try various crossovers.


I would measure the subwoofer esponse at your seat to make sure you are getting a relatively flat FR. If you are, it could just be that you prefer the subjectively punchier bass from the mains which could be a result of more second order distortion. If you aren't achieving a flat response from your sub, the peaks and nulls could be muddying up the bass by overemphasizing certain ranges and underemphasizing others.


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## Tiny (Oct 17, 2007)

I don't feel so alone now having big floor speakers for my theater. Current arrangement as of today is a pair of 15" 3-ways in the front and another pair in the back with a pair of behemoth solid wood cased 12" models. That could change tomorrow. i am picking up a pair of DJ speakers with dual 18" drivers per 5ft tower. Those might make their way up front, instead of to the garage.


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## Scuba Diver (Sep 28, 2007)

Kal, Your right it is the DTS site.


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## Guest (Nov 29, 2007)

Hi Daddy Cool,

Just wanted to check how are your MA Br5's doing sound wise? I am planning to go for a pair and just wanted to check your opinion on them. I will be teaming them up with a Marantz 4001 or 5001 av receiver. 

90% of usage will be pure music - classic rock, jazz, blues

Thanks for your help

Ravi


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