# Underwhelmed by New Sub but REW Looks OK...?



## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

Hi all,

I have been doing a semi-major upgrade on my basement HT equipment over the last few months. 

Phase 1 was a new receiver (Denon AVR-3311CI)
Phase 2 was a set of Paradigm Studio speakers (Two Studio 60's for mains, and a CC-590 as a center)
Phase 3 was the cherry on top - SVS PB13 Ultra Subwoofer.

The Ultra replaces my trusty HSU VTF3-HO + Turbo sub which had to be one of the ugliest subs of all time (mostly because of the turbo attachment), but it would sure do a great job shaking my entire house.

Anyways, I finally received my SVS last week, and plunked it down in the left front corner where the HSU used to sit, and ran Auto Setup on my AVR. All seemed ok, but I was kind of dissappointed in the bass output. By all accounts, the SVS should easily outperform the HSU, so I decided to have a look at REQ again. Lats time I used REQ was when I set up my HSU a few years ago. I was happy to see that there was a new version of REQ, so I downloaded it, calibrated my soundcard and SPL and started running some measurements. 

My initial graphs showed a kind of anemic response below 25Hz, so I moved the sub a little bit (maybe 6") towards the left wall and re-measured. The graph looked much better in the sub 25Hz areas (see graph), but I still am not really feeling the bass when I play reference material (War of the Worlds - Pods Emerge scene, and Kung Fu Panda - Skidoosh scene). 

Although I played around with REQ a few years back, I have very limited experience with it, so can anyone chime on on my graph? Should I try to find a totally different spot for the sub? If so, I am going to have to invest in some of those furniture sliders - the SVS is 160lbs!









Thanks


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

The response looks good, but a plot of sub + main (plotted up to 1kHz, say) would show whether there are any gaps in the overlap region and what the relative levels are, might help explain why it doesn't sound as good as it looks.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

What tune are you running it in. One thing you need to keep in mind is that an SPL graph only shows your a response plot, and isnt really any indication in how it will sound. That said, a lot of the output is sub 20hz, meaning your setup will register these levels when matching and making the over 30hz material you really hear, rather quiet.

I think you really need to work on getting that response a lot flatter. From the looks of it its very focused on low end output that you dont hear that well. Out of interest, can you put your AVR on -30, and play say a 50hz tone, and see what spl that is output at, I would guess its a fair bit under the 75-80db its supposed to be. If so, your going to be missing out on that chest punch feeling you get, which may be what your describing.


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

The graph shows response using the one-port-closed 16Hz tune, which is how my old HSU was set up. I will try the 20Hz mode tonight and play around with things a bit more.


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

JohnM said:


> The response looks good, but a plot of sub + main (plotted up to 1kHz, say) would show whether there are any gaps in the overlap region and what the relative levels are, might help explain why it doesn't sound as good as it looks.


I will do a plot of sub+main tonight. One question though - in the old version of REW, the plots showed filter lines with crossover slopes. I cannot seem to enable those in version 5. Any ideas? Thanks.


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## EarlK (Jan 1, 2010)

> ,,,,snip,,,,in the old version of REW, the plots showed filter lines with crossover slopes. I cannot seem to enable those in version 5. Any ideas? Thanks.


That is all now found within the EQing window.

- Once opened, look at the tabs or drop-down menu choices, located in the top-right of that EQ window .

<> EarlK


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

strugs said:


> The graph shows response using the one-port-closed 16Hz tune, which is how my old HSU was set up. I will try the 20Hz mode tonight and play around with things a bit more.


Johns advice of producing a plot that includes the mains as well is sound and will be of use. One you do that, you can then look at getting the response flat, which I would make your primary goal. Once you do that you can evaluate the sound and work from there.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

strugs said:


> My initial graphs showed a kind of anemic response below 25Hz, so I moved the sub a little bit (maybe 6") towards the left wall and re-measured. The graph looked much better in the sub 25Hz areas (see graph), but I still am not really feeling the bass when I play reference material (War of the Worlds - Pods Emerge scene, and Kung Fu Panda - Skidoosh scene).


For one thing, you have a big ~9-10 dB hole in the 40 Hz range, which is a critical area for that “seat of the pants” feel. Also - you might find that shelving response below ~25-30 Hz sounds better. Are you using an equalizer?

Regards,
Wayne


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> For one thing, you have a big ~9-10 dB hole in the 40 Hz range, which is a critical area for that “seat of the pants” feel. Also - you might find that shelving response below ~25-30 Hz sounds better. Are you using an equalizer?


Hi Wayne,

Although I am not using an EQ in the strictest sense, I do have a few tools at my disposal for adjusting EQ.

1 - My Denon has AudysseyXT filters. If I recall correctly, the plot I posted was with this disengaged (but my listening tests were done with Audyssey in and out, and I did not notice a substantial difference in bass).

2 - My sub has a "room correction" adjustment that tapers excess bass. It has 25Hz, 30Hz and 40 Hz settings. Would this be useful for "shelving response below 25-30Hz"?

3 - The SVS Ultra also has a one band Parametric EQ that can be used to cut a range of frequencies.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

I dont quite see it like that Wayne. We dont know the base level of the measurment. Looking at the region above the 40hz dip, we could assume a base level of 80db which would make the drop in the dip only 4db, and the low end boost could then simply be low end gain, something I have seen from Ultras before, especially if situated in corners.


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

OK - so I rushed through dinner so I could run some tests, and here is something I am stuck on:

When I do the "check levels" procedure in setup (under preferences - soundcard), I have to turn my receiver down to -21 to get to the suggested target of 75db. However, when I hit the "check levels button on the "measure" command, I get a message saying "the level is low" and it shows the level at 77.5db. Thsi is with the level adjustment cranked all the way to max (-3db). Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks to all for your help so far.


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

In the meantime -I plugged my mains back in to give you a fuller picture of my FR of the complete system









Lots of work to be done for sure (that dip at 110 looks nasty), but doesn't my graph indicate that I should have a problem with too much bass if anything?


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## tdo722 (Mar 12, 2011)

hi strugs,

Don't use audyssey xt as a tool to fix bass issue. Trust me, I have the audyssey pro installer kit and a license to my integra dhc-9.9 and all it can do for bass is just minor tweaks but for dips and valleys (+/- 10db) you can totally forget it. But that's why they make sub eq or the svs as-eq1. For me, I'd trust my FBQ2496 and a lot of manual tweaking and adding filters by myself to finally dial in to the curve. Here's what you need:


1. FQB2496 $122 B&H photo.com

2. XENYX 502 musicianfriends.com $55

3. cables monoprice.com $30

4. behringer sound card $30

5. a calibrated ecm8000 $70

Total damage: $307 +/- an extra $20


I hope I didn't miss anything. If you're lazy, look on audiogon for svs as-eq1 for around $450 shipped. haha...


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

One other item I am wondering about: I am using a Behringer UCA202 external sound card connected to my laptop. Should I be using the digital (optical) output or an rca analog cable to the receiver?


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## tdo722 (Mar 12, 2011)

RCA only.


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

EarlK said:


> That is all now found within the EQing window.
> 
> - Once opened, look at the tabs or drop-down menu choices, located in the top-right of that EQ window


Hi Earl,
I selected the filters in the EQ settings, but they still do not show on my graph. The legend at the bottom of the graph doesn't list the filters or targets, which is where I can find them on the old version of REW. Any ideas how to get them to show? Thanks.


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## EarlK (Jan 1, 2010)

strugs said:


> Hi Earl,
> I selected the filters in the EQ settings, but they still do not show on my graph. The legend at the bottom of the graph doesn't list the filters or targets, which is where I can find them on the old version of REW. Any ideas how to get them to show? Thanks.


Maybe this *How To_"Auto-EQ"* pictorial will help you .










<> EarlK

ps; Don't be afraid to play around in the Sand-Box ( so to speak ) . Indiscriminate button clicking can be a good learning exercise .


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

strugs said:


> Hi Wayne,
> 
> Although I am not using an EQ in the strictest sense, I do have a few tools at my disposal for adjusting EQ.
> 
> ...


(1) As tdo722 noted, Audyssey isn’t the best tool for fine-tuning low frequency response. I’d recommend a parametric EQ for that.

(2) Can’t comment on the room correction; not knowing any details on how it works. If it’s a high pass filter, it’s just going to roll out everything below the selected frequency at so-many dB per octave. That’s not really what you want. You just want to _flatten_ response below ~25-30 Hz, not obliterate it.

(3) Your 40 Hz hole needs a boost, not a cut, so the SVS built-in parametric isn’t the tool for the job. Again, parametric EQ is your best tool for fine-tuning subwoofer response



tdo722 said:


> For me, I'd trust my FBQ2496 and a lot of manual tweaking and adding filters by myself to finally dial in to the curve. Here's what you need:
> 
> 
> 1. FQB2496 $122 B&H photo.com
> ...


Well, he has REW up and running so we know he has a sound card and the necessary cables. The calibrated mic and its required pre amp is unnecessary unless you want accurate full range measurements; for subwoofers only, a SPL meter with calibration file will get the job done. 

Total damage : $122 for the EQ, $75 for the meter (unless he already has a SPL meter. ). 

Regards,
Wayne


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## EarlK (Jan 1, 2010)

Wayne said:


> For one thing, you have a big ~9-10 dB hole in the 40 Hz range, which is a critical area for that “seat of the pants” feel. Also - you might find that shelving response below ~25-30 Hz sounds better. Are you using an equalizer?


I thought I'd reinforce Waynes wise words ( before they get lost in the shuffle ) . 

Here's a couple of shots of the LFE spectrum nicely indicating why one needs solid 30 to 80hz response ( for HT movie watching ) . 
- *Spectrum Lab* was used to create these Spectral Analyses for 3 "high impact moments" taken from three different movies .
- ( created by Ashley/JBL 4645, over at LHF ) .




















Here's an older movie ( Earthquake, 1974 ) ;










My observation is ; it's no wonder your new sub sounds pretty underwhelming / with a large acoustic hole at 40 hz , it'll sound like it's underperforming / especially in that ultra critical, LFE band .

- You really do need to fill in that hole ( ie; either restore that range with some applied EQ /or/ locate the sub to a new location that doesn't create a room null at 40hz ) .

<. EarlK


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

Hi guys - I really appreciate all the feedback and suggestions so far.

Because I was using the optical out put of my soundcard, both L&R speakers were producing the sweep tones for all my graphs thus far. I swapped out the optical cable for an RCA going to only the L or R channels and started the process of setting levels, calibrating the SPL meter, etc form scratch. I then ran sweeps with the sub in three different locations. The first was in the corner - the same location my old HSU was in. The second location was still sort of in the corner, I just moved it as far away from the left wall as I could (probably 18" or so away form the original position. The third location is between my left and center speaker on the front wall.

Here are the results:









I was actually a little shocked by the similarities of all of the graphs, especially below 60Hz (the blue data is a victim of my unscientific method - I changed more than one variable at once - I relocated the sub and I changed the tuning of the sb from 20Hz to 16Hz).

So - since my target SPL is 80db, is there really a "large accoustic hole" at 40Hz, or do I have too much SPL from 15 to 30 Hz?


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## Ile (Nov 23, 2010)

If I understanded right, this far you have moved sub only along front wall. This only helps to wide modes.

If 40 Hz dip is caused by room lenght mode (about 4.3m length), moving sub or listening position room lenght wise should help.

http://www.mcsquared.com/metricmodes.htm


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## EarlK (Jan 1, 2010)

strugs said:


> So - since my target SPL is 80db, is there really a "large acoustic hole" at 40Hz, or do I have too much SPL from 15 to 30 Hz?


- Semantics, really . All three traces show the need for applied EQ ( or a different location >> different wall ? ) .

- EQing ? from the perspective of "do-ability or reasonable expectations of success" , I'd rather EQ that purple trace .

- Use REWs AutoEQ function on each of those traces to see what REW suggests ( for EQ filters ) .

<> EarlK


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

OK - I am back. And I have been busy. I wasn't happy with wild response readings from my originalsub locations, so I wanted to try different sub locations to see if i could get a flatter response. I went to home despot bought some of those slippery furniture sliders to put under the rubber feet of my sub to make moving the beast a lot easier. I took REW measurements as follows:

As you know from my previous posts, the front wall locations all had a significant null at approx 40Hz. The left wall was about the same as the front wall locations, except the null moved from 40 Hz down to 35Hz. I tried two different positions for the sub including one direcly adjecent my seating area, with similar results.

Next up was the right wall, which was an unmitigated disaster. Two -20db nulls at 25Hz and 35 Hz. Not a big deal, as this wall is the access point to our storage room, and I wanted to avoid placing the sub in a high traffic area. The last thing I need is for someone to drop a box of christmas ornaments on my new sub.

Next up was the rear wall. I tried the mid point directly behind my prime listening position, and the left rear corner (the right rear section of my room is open to the stairway, so it is not a good sub location). These readings were surprisingly good from an REW perspective. The 40Hz null was gone and the graph was relatively even from 16Hz up to 65Hz. Two problems with this location though. I fired up a few movies and even though bass is supposed to be omnidirectional, I could tell that the sub was behind me. The second issue is that the best graph was from the rear corner position, and that would entail a 35 to 40 foot run of rg6 cable because I would have to run the cable up into the drop ceiling and traverse the entire width of the room. 

I then moved the sub back to the front left corner and wanted to see the effect of mic placement. moved my seats (and the spl meter on tripod) back about 2 feet from my initial seat location, and this lessened the 40Hz dip, but didn't really have a huge impact. I then pushed the seats up towards the front wall about 2 feet and I found these response curves from the L, R, and C speakers:









This seems like a much more uniform response than my original curve last week:









So - even though I have a much flatter response from the new seating location, I have two semi major problems:
1) My seats are now a little too close to my screen for my liking. However, if this is what it takes to get me closer to audio nirvana, I can live with it. Which brings me to my problem #2:
2) I plopped a few movies in to listen at the new location, and I am still underwhelmed....

When I was running my old sub (HSU VTF3-HO - HSU's flagship sub some years ago), I could actually feel a lot more room pressure during bass intensive movies than I do with my new SVS Ultra. For example, on the Kung Fu Panda "skidoosh" scene and the "Irene" scene from Blackhawk down, I could actually feel my seats shaking and my pants legs felt like they were flapping with the sound. 

The IBT (internet brain trust) gave all indications that the Ultra is at least as good as my old Sub (arguably a lot better given more power and a larger driver). Is it possible the HSU was a better "fit" for my room? I am really starting to have buyers's remorse after selling my old sub and geting the Ultra (at three times what I sold my old sub for). 

I am thinking of going with the BFD solution and try EQ'ing the bass signal from the original graph (blue trace above), but I am reluctant to shell out another hundred bucks or so on a piece of gear that may not actually improve my listening experience. 

Anyone have any more wisdom for me? I appreciate all the help you have been thus far.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

I hate to say this, but it seems to me that the truth may actually lie in the Ultra not being to your tastes. Its the one reason I ended up selling mine and going back to sealed subs. Its fun for a while but with a heavy focus on pure clean low end grunt I ultimately decided it just wasnt for me. 

I guess one experiment that would drastically change how it sounds would be to seal it and reduce the internal cabinet volume somewhat, and see if the new character is more what you seem to be looking for. Of course that means getting access inside which may be a big no go for you, but it could help answer a few questions. The sealed Ultra has a system Q of around .5. I discovered this after deliberating over issue I personally had when I owned an Ultra. After a lot of listening and trying to decide on how I thought it sounded, I asked SVS themselves for the system Q of the sealed Ultra, and they confirmed it was around .5 (it will vary slightly from room to room, leaning lower in large rooms and higher in small rooms). Ultimately, that is why I had to move the Ultra on.


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

Moonfly said:


> I hate to say this, but it seems to me that the truth may actually lie in the Ultra not being to your tastes. Its the one reason I ended up selling mine and going back to sealed subs. Its fun for a while but with a heavy focus on pure clean low end grunt I ultimately decided it just wasnt for me.


Well, I do actually prefer sealed subs for music, but I absolutely loved my ported HSU for HT use - and it had the "Turbo" attachment so it was not lacking in the port department. I am just confused why I can't at least come close to the performance of my old HSU sub.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

If you were to measure on pure performance, I'm quite sure the Ultra would breeze that test (I'm not familiar with the HSU). I think this may come down to preference more than that, based on what you seem to be trying to say, and given the graphs you have posted.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Too bad we can’t see a graph of the HSU sub for comparision...


strugs said:


> I am thinking of going with the BFD solution and try EQ'ing the bass signal from the original graph (blue trace above), but I am reluctant to shell out another hundred bucks or so on a piece of gear that may not actually improve my listening experience.


Nothing to worry about there. The BFD will make a dramatic difference. As it is now, your blue trace is low-end heavy and is depressed between 25-45 Hz. No wonder it doesn’t sound good.

But if you're concerned, pick up a used BFD. That way if you’re not happy with the results you won’t take a loss when you resell it.

Regards,
Wayne


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Too bad we can’t see a graph of the HSU sub for comparision...


I was going to ask if you had measured and calibrated the HSU's response with the same equipment. 
Your current set up has the sub level matched pretty well with the main speaker levels. With the old set up, is it possible that you had the HSU level much higher than the main speaker level? If so, that would make it seem like the HSU was more powerful.

Personally, I'm going to believe that the HSU is just that much better... because I have loved mine for years. Although I've only been able to dream about the HO model.


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Too bad we can’t see a graph of the HSU sub for comparision...


Ask and ye shall receive.... Good thing I am a bit of a hoarder when it comes to my hard drives.... 










Thoughts?


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

I still think a flat response should be the initial aim. Then decide if you like that, and if not work from there. If the various tweaks dont make you like the sub, then you simply have a preference for a different sound.

Looking between the graphs, there isnt a massive amount of different between the general shape of the responses. That tells me the difference is between the characters of the subs rather than the issue being that if setup or performance.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Wow, great that you had a graph! It explains a lot; more-or-less what I expected it might be: Specifically, more energy at the upper end of the spectrum. 

Basically, your response with the HSU between 45-90 Hz is flatter than the SVS, within a ~ 8 dB window, while the SVS varies about 12 dB. Furthermore, the HSU’s bump just north of 60 Hz would add a lot of presence in that range, while the SVS has a broad depression between 45-90 Hz with nothing in that area to add any emphasis.

Generally, the HSU’s overall response trend is relatively flat between 30-90 Hz, while the SVS has an upward sloping trend, like a severe house curve. An overly-severe house curve is great for shaking the room with infrasonic energy, but lacks "umph" and impact (not to mention presence) in the upper end of response.

I still say EQ would make a difference...

Regards,
Wayne


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Generally, the HSU’s overall response trend is relatively flat between 30-90 Hz, while the SVS has an upward sloping trend, like a severe house curve. An overly-severe house curve is great for shaking the room with infrasonic energy, but lacks "umph" and impact (not to mention presence) in the upper end of response.


Looking at the graphs, that makes sense to me too, but what I am experiencing is the opposite. With the HSU, my house shook to the point where it was sometimes a little unsettling. With the SVS, I am not getting that at all....


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## strugs (Feb 26, 2008)

Moonfly said:


> I still think a flat response should be the initial aim.



OK - so if i go get myself a BFD, would you suggest going back to my original seating position (after a few days at the new seating location, I am not really liking it. Too close to the screen and stereo imaging is way off)and using the EQ to reduce the peaks so that the response matches the natural null at 40Hz? I am still wondering why my new SVS has introduced a significant null at 40Hz. Given the fact that my room has not changed at all, why would a sub that is arguably at least as good if not better than the HSU suck out a frequency like that?


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

By getting the response flat, you will hear the sub as its intended to sound and can then decide if you like that or not, or if you want to tweak it.

I wouldnt expect a massive difference in the response of 2 different subs placed inthe same spot in the same room. The differences would likely be in the low end, with a better sub rolling off less rapidly.

That said, a different sub is a different sub and a different response isnt to be entirely unexpected. All I can really say now is see how things go after the BFD has done its work. Once you get the low end boosting down, it will have the effect of reducing the perceived weakness of that null, and sometimes thats the only way you can really tackle a room induced null. Its also got to be worth rotating the sub in its position, to see if that relatively simple adjustment helps at all, sometimes is really does.

I might have some old REW graphs of my PBU, if I can find them, I will look and try see if the same null existed, although from memory it didnt. In short, I dont think that dip is anything remotely like the fault of the sub itself.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

strugs said:


> Looking at the graphs, that makes sense to me too, but what I am experiencing is the opposite. With the HSU, my house shook to the point where it was sometimes a little unsettling. With the SVS, I am not getting that at all....


Sorry, poor description on my part. The ultra-low bass is felt more than heard. We’ve already established that the trough @40 Hz is causing the lack of “seat of the pants” feel, and to that I’d add the overall flatness of the HSU’s response through most of the range as contributing to your liking what it was giving you as well.





strugs said:


> OK - so if i go get myself a BFD, would you suggest going back to my original seating position (after a few days at the new seating location, I am not really liking it. Too close to the screen and stereo imaging is way off)and using the EQ to reduce the peaks so that the response matches the natural null at 40Hz?


No, you should use a series of boosting and cutting filters. Cutting only will result in neatly -20 dB of EQ for the 20-25 Hz area. Filtering that severe should be avoided. If you want flat response, I’d draw a line through the middle of the 80-85 dB markers and shoot for that. That way no filter will be too severe, except for those dealing with the 20-25 Hz area, which will probably end up being ~12 dB at worst.




> I am still wondering why my new SVS has introduced a significant null at 40Hz. Given the fact that my room has not changed at all, why would a sub that is arguably at least as good if not better than the HSU suck out a frequency like that?


 I’m going to hazard a guess that the HSU combo had some overlapping in that area. By the way, it’s not a null. It’s merely a depression. A null is narrow and deep, like what the blue trace of your three-trace graph shows at ~140 Hz.

Regards,
Wayne


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## paulspencer (May 11, 2007)

Around 40 Hz has a big impact on shaking the couch. My room has a 15 db peak there (44 Hz). One time I ran the system without EQ while watching the movie Shooter. Every gunshot and explosion was felt like never before, very tactile. It was fun but also unnatural. 

A few other things to consider with being "underwhemled." The biggest factor may well be your previous reference. Comments like that often say more about what you are used to hearing than what you should pursue from this point onwards. Another factor often overlooked is that response plots are a bit misleading in that they overlook that we hear things a little differently. At 50 Hz we have a processing latency of 50 ms - we don't perceive a tone in the first 50 ms! So a waterfall shows a more complete picture, and the modal ringing of your room is a factor. Take a look at waterfall plots and you will see something closer to what you hear. 

Also keep in mind that there are certain undesirable things that make bass sound louder. Modal ringing where modes take longer to decay makes the bass sound more full, but also less accurate. Add bass traps and your subs actually sound quieter even though you measure the same level in a response plot. Distortion (harmonic) also makes bass sound louder, hence a lower distortion sub may sound less exciting. Further, in the bass range, as little as 2 db is perceived as a bigger increase than in the midrange. At levels you would likely watch a movie, as little as 5 db sounds twice as loud, not 10 db like you get in the midrange. Look very closely at the equal loudness contours at relatively high levels in the bass, you will see it's related to the increasing sensitivity of our ears to bass at higher levels. 

So things get more complicated sometimes!

Regarding EQ, consider MiniDSP - although not designed for this purpose primarily, it's cheap, very useful and it also lacks the turn on thumps of BFD. 

One more comment. Your charts show a tendency to have the bottom end a little exaggerated. That gives bass a little extra fullness. You might also investigate SBIR and phase alignment between sub and mains and your bass management settings. Sometimes overlapping mains and your sub can smooth out some dips. Also when taking measurements, I like to position the sub in the listening position elevated, then move the mic and take a zillion measurements. I also like to do this with the mains. You don't have to keep moving the sub, it's much easier to move a mic on a stand. Quite easy to take 30 measurements or more and have more complete data to work with. I use that kind of info to work out how to integrate the sub and mains.


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