# Puget Sound DIY Speaker Contest 2010!



## Kevin Haskins (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm posting this for my buddy TerryO who has been responsible for organizing this event every other year. If you are anywhere in the Pacific Northwest and have any interest in speakers, this event is a bash. Nobody ever regrets coming and Terry does a bang-up job of running a blind listening panel to judge all the speaker designs. You don't have to worry too much about getting skunked because Terry enters a speaker every year and captures the "worst of show" award. ;-)

Anyway.... make a spot in your schedule in August and come out for a day that is an absolute blast.

********************************************************

"The Puget Sound! DIY Speaker Contest" is once again being sponsored by the Pacific Northwest Audio Society (PNWAS) and will be held on Saturday, August 28th. In the coming days and weeks, I'll be posting information as to location, rules and how to enter. The event is free for attendees, although there is an entry fee for contestants to help defray costs of the facility rental.

If you're interested in DIY speaker building, or just Audio, this is a great way to meet and connect with others that are of a like mind. Come for an hour, or spend all day, it's interesting and a whole lot of fun. While spectators aren't allowed in the evaluation/judging room, we usually have an similar, or nearly exact, system set up in a separate area, in order that the public can listen to the various entries.

If you're new to speaker building, this is a chance to talk to the contestants about speaker design and Audio in general. I believe that you'll be astonished by the quality of sound that these home-built speakers are capable of.

If you have been working on a speaker design that you'd like to enter, this contest may serve as an incentive to finish it up. In the past, all entries have received a printout of the frequency response of their speaker as well as being able to talk to real experts and audio professionals.

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

Kevin Haskins said:


> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Major Snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> You don't have to worry too much about getting skunked because Terry enters a speaker every year and captures the "worst of show" award. ;-)
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Another Big Snip~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Mr. Haskins is wrong. At the last contest, I evidently messed up and someone else finally took *my* "Worst of Show" award away from me. 
:hissyfit:

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

I'll look forward to reading the reports and seeing the pics, but unless a complementary return airfare and accom is forthcoming, I won't be able too. Been told no time off work until mid December for me anyway.

Hope it goes resoundingly well for everyone.


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## terry j (Jul 31, 2006)

_Nobody ever regrets coming and Terry does a bang-up job of *running a blind listening panel to judge all the speaker designs.*_

would be interesting to find out how this is done.


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## Derry (Apr 10, 2010)

is there anything to read on past years outcome,,??

Derry


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## Kevin Haskins (Nov 14, 2007)

TerryO said:


> Mr. Haskins is wrong. At the last contest, I evidently messed up and someone else finally took *my* "Worst of Show" award away from me.
> :hissyfit:
> 
> Best Regards,
> TerryO


I have confidence you can win it back Terry. :T


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## Kevin Haskins (Nov 14, 2007)

terry j said:


> _Nobody ever regrets coming and Terry does a bang-up job of *running a blind listening panel to judge all the speaker designs.*_
> 
> would be interesting to find out how this is done.


Terry would have to fill you in on the nitty-gritty details. The short and simple is that they have a acoustically transparent cloth spread across the front of the room hiding the loudspeakers. The panel of judges (people who have proven to have pretty good ears) listens to the same five or six recordings and judge each speaker blind based upon a number of subjective categories. When they switch out speakers the judges get a short break and they level match the speakers to the same SPL in-between sessions. 

It isn't perfect but it is the best that can be done in a days time. Overall we see that the speakers that measure best.... win the subjective contest. There is at least a very high degree of correlation and you never see a speaker that measures bad doing well. I think Terry can confirm this.... he has been running the contest longer than I've been involved.

Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio


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## Kevin Haskins (Nov 14, 2007)

Derry said:


> is there anything to read on past years outcome,,??
> 
> Derry



I think you can go to the Pacific Northwest Audio Societies site and download the meeting reports. They are PDFs and if I remember right... some pictures of the winners and such. 

We don't run commercial speakers so it isn't going to help you pick a loudspeaker to buy. There is a "Kit Category" but there are no commercial loudspeaker entries and the "Kit Speakers" cannot win best of show. They can only win in the "Kit Loudspeaker" category. 

This is an event for DIYers who build speakers and as such... it isn't aimed to promote anyone's product. It is fun for anyone and instructive if you are interested in audio in general and a blast if you are into building loudspeakers. 


Kevin Haskins
Exodus Audio


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## terry j (Jul 31, 2006)

Kevin Haskins said:


> Terry would have to fill you in on the nitty-gritty details. The short and simple is that they have a acoustically transparent cloth spread across the front of the room hiding the loudspeakers. The panel of judges (people who have proven to have pretty good ears) listens to the same five or six recordings and judge each speaker blind based upon a number of subjective categories. When they switch out speakers the judges get a short break and they level match the speakers to the same SPL in-between sessions.
> 
> It isn't perfect but it is the best that can be done in a days time. Overall we see that the speakers that measure best.... win the subjective contest. There is at least a very high degree of correlation and you never see a speaker that measures bad doing well. I think Terry can confirm this.... he has been running the contest longer than I've been involved.
> 
> ...


thanks kevin. 

VERY interesting on a few points there..and yes if a reasonably in depth write up were provided somewhere on the net (ie can be copied or linked to from forum to forum) I for one would love to read it.

I for one would love to be a part of such a thing.

Certainly seems to back up what we hear from harmon and olive etc etc.

have fun, wish we could organise something like that over here.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

terry j said:


> have fun, wish we could organise something like that over here.


We could Terry, maybe as an addition to the race weekend?


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## terry j (Jul 31, 2006)

A9X said:


> We could Terry, maybe as an addition to the race weekend?


well for sure..it was floated on diy if you recall, seemed promising for a while (IIRC goulburn was mooted at one stage) but nothing came of it.

was always quite happy for it to happen out here (at least *you'll* understand that it is not some desire to be at the centre of attention) as we have a lot of room for people and setups, and if NOT held on the race weekend then the 'country retreat' next door can sleep seventy!! and has rooms too.

So race weekend (out here) is not good, advantages to having it another time in the year.

Have NO idea what the thread on diy was called....


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## Be_Mo_Mods (Feb 14, 2010)

This looks like alot of fun! I am going to try and make it. Thank you for the heads up!


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

This took a bit longer to get around to, but here's some details regarding the contest:

Speaker Contest: *"The Puget Sound!" DIY Speaker Contest *

August 28, 2010 @ Mercer Island Congregational Church, 4545 Island Crest Way, Mercer Island, WA 

Doors open at 9:00 a.m., and judging begins at approximately 9:30 a.m.. We may be flexible on start time if a contestant is traveling some distance and may be arriving later than the start time; please let us know in advance so we can schedule accordingly. 

*Entries *

This year there will be two "classes" of entries: original DIY designs and kits. We realize that a lot of effort, experience, skill and sometimes luck are needed to come up with a successful design. Many accomplished designers learned their craft by starting with kits of one sort or another and subsequently progressed toward original designs. For others, the lack of time or experience makes a kit a means towards better, affordable sound. 

A kit is defined as... 

...Any pre-designed or published design (publication includes the Internet) that is the product of another person. This may be plans, parts, kit, or both plus cabinets, etc. Any major deviation from the plans may at some point constitute an original design -- however, a club appointed technical committee will have the final determination if this problem presents itself. All kits must have been offered to and available to the general public at some time. We rely on the integrity of the contestant! 

The kit class is broken by cost per pair, and excludes the cost of the cabinet and finish. The breakdown for kits is as follows: 

$0-$175/pair 
$176-$325/pair 
$326+/pair 

*Original design* breakdown is as follows: 

One way -- under $75/over $75 
Two way -- under $200/over $200 
Three way -- under $300/over $300 
Unlimited -- no limit 

*NOTE:* This is for drivers and crossover parts only; cabinet material and finish are not included. We again rely on the contestants' integrity. Your uncle who owns the HiFi Emporium cannot give you a special deal that isn't or hasn't been available to the general public. Nuff Said! 

The speakers will be driven by the system the club supplies. Don't bring your own MegaWatt Hyper Triode Amp -- we're not going to use it. To keep it simple, we are not going to allow biamping or plate amps for a bass module. 

The entry fee is $5 if you pre-register (postmarked by August 21) or $10 if you register at the door. If you have any questions please post on one of the forums with a thread on the contest. Also, it would help us a great deal if you'd let us know or think you're coming. A downloadable format entry form and the address to send it and your entry fee will be provided at a later date. 

*Judging *

The judging will be by a panel of judges in a special room set aside for this. We will have three judges, which in turn plays his personal pre-selected musical selections (2-3 minutes max.) while sitting in the "sweet spot." Each contestant is allowed to specify general guidelines to set-up, that is, distance apart, toe-in, although corner loaded speakers will need to provide their own artificial corners. Remember that the judges will be sitting side by side so that should be taken into consideration. 

We intend that judging will be totally blind -- this means that a curtain is utilized to ensure that sound, and not appearance, will be the sole criteria. All speakers will have the loudness adjusted to the same level before judging begins. Set-up of speakers will be by a club crew using notes taken at time of entry. Each judge will be issued a standard evaluation form prior to each session, and will rate each entry by assigning points, after which the form is collected by the Technical Committee member assigned to monitoring the judging (and setting SPL levels prior to each evaluation of an entry, etc). The forms are then scored by the Contest Director, or his designee for total points. After the final entry is judged, the points earned are assigned within each category to determine ranking within that class. The total overall points regardless of category or class will determine Best Sound of Show. 

*Other Stuff *

General admission of the public is free. We hope to have a garage sale/swap meet type offering for those who wish to sell or buy audio gear for free. However, the owners are responsible for their gear, etc. Don't expect to drop off stuff and return at the end of the day to pick up the money. (Please advise in advance if you wish to sell items). 

We are going to let the attendees help out by voting for the Best Craftsmanship, Most Unusual, Most Creative Use of Material (Bondo, duct tape, silly putty, etc.). 

*Awards *

Each entry will receive a certificate of participation and a print out of his entry's frequency response measured by a qualified expert designated by the Contest Director or head of the Technical Committee. Additional certificates will be awarded to class winners, as well as 2nd place . 

Finally a "Best Sound of Show" certificate will be presented to the overall winner. All winners of their respective DIY class are eligible for this. Please note that "kit" speakers aren't eligible for the Best Sound of Show. 

Unless overruled by the Technical Committee for violation of the rules, the decision (total points) of the judges is final.

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## terry j (Jul 31, 2006)

sounds like heaps of fun, looking forward to detailed reports (and pics).

Would like to see some report on the old gnarly problem we often see from different audiophile camps, what link (if any) between placings and measurements!!

You know the ones...'I have often heard a speaker with good measurements that sounded bad, and many the reverse' yada yada. Will be interesting to find if your 'results' tend to duplicate the HK 'results'...a clear listener preference (when blinded) is for those speakers that measure well (simplified of course).

If I were somehow in a position to partake, my only general comment is that my system is banned by the rules and so would be quite disappointed (active tri amped). I can understand the reasons behind that tho, mainly for ease and to get thru the entire thing??

Have fun, wish we could do something similar.


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

This has taken longer than I had hoped, but here's the information needed to register. 

For those who wish to pre-register their entries to the speaker contest, it is $5 per entry along with your name and address and a description of their entry.

The required items in the entry description are as follows:

1. Kit or self designed.

2. Single driver, 2-way, 3 way, etc.

3. Total cost of the speaker with a breakdown as to drivers, crossovers, etc., for both pairs of speakers. The cost of the cabinets or finish are not counted.

4. Description of the crossover topography and frequencies involved. 

5. What drivers are used (make and model #).

Please see rules if there are questions.

Please make out checks to: Pacific Northwest Audio Society

Registration forms and checks need to be sent to:

Pacific Northwest Audio Society
P.O. Box 435
Mercer Island, WA. 98014

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Parts Express just had one of these types of shows, i wish i lived closer i'd love to see firsthand all the DIY speakers people build.


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

Bambino,

Any of the various Audio Meets are generally a lot of fun, as I'm sure the PE event is. Our Contest is a bit more structured than most, but we also have, on alternate years, a much more causal " Run what ya Brung" meet that is very laid back, takes a whole lot less effort to plan and is perhaps even more fun. 
As you're in the Midwest, there seems to be a lot of different meets that are run every year. I've heard that the Audio Karma meet is quite a bit of fun, hopefully some day I'll get to attend one of them.

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

How would i go about finding them? Google? It does sound like lots of fun, when i was younger and into caraudio we would go to about any event that was in the surounding areas and had a blast.


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

Bambino,

Perhaps you might look at several forums for more info. I personally like diyaudio, Audio Karma, the Bottlehead forum, and there are the PE and the Madisound forums as well. They all have different flavors or emphasis in their meets, but I believe that you will find some (or all!) to be interesting. There are also High Efficiency and Single Driver forums that have events listed. 

My personal favorite event (after the "Contest" of course!) is the upcoming Vancouver Island DIY Meet in Canada. These guys are phenomenal craftsmen, very innovative and tend to build or modify just about any and all kinds of gear, from CD players, Turntables, Amplifiers and speakers. They come up with just excellent sounding systems for far, far less money that anyone I've encountered and as a reality check, I've heard several of the finest systems in the World.

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Thanks Terry.:T


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## spasticteapot (Aug 16, 2010)

Are the prices listed including or excluding the cost of crossover components? The majority of DIY designs I see use drivers more or less equivalent to the Dayton Reference line, which, in today's rather weak dollars, roughly equates to around $200 in drivers, and comparing a pair of Modula MTs to a pair of Accuton 2-ways is going to be a bit harsh for a lot of the designers.

Also, you might want to be careful of the amplifier you choose. Many DIYers omit impedance-compensation networks for reasons of cost, and amplifiers with high output impeadances - especially tube amplifiers of all types - are pretty much guaranteed to sound awful. An extremely low noise floor is good for anyone who brings high-efficiency speakers, while others will require a an incredible amount of power.


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

spasticteapot said:


> Are the prices listed including or excluding the cost of crossover components? The majority of DIY designs I see use drivers more or less equivalent to the Dayton Reference line, which, in today's rather weak dollars, roughly equates to around $200 in drivers, and comparing a pair of Modula MTs to a pair of Accuton 2-ways is going to be a bit harsh for a lot of the designers.


Spaz,
The enties are to include the cost of the crossovers. We've had several entries in the past with over $1300 in drivers and crossover parts, but it's proved to be no big deal to most of the people entering the contest.

Attendance is free and entries are $10 per at the door. If you are entering a speaker please plan on being there at 9:00am when we open the doors as Judging will start at about 9:30am. Those bringing standmount speakers should also bring their own stands.

Hope to see you there!

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

It sounds like alot of fun. It seems that I either hear about these to late or they are to far away from me.:sad: I wish they did more of these things in the northeast. Post alot of pics guy's I would love to see them. :T


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

tcarcio said:


> It sounds like alot of fun. It seems that I either hear about these to late or they are to far away from me.:sad: I wish they did more of these things in the northeast. Post alot of pics guy's I would love to see them. :T


They are a lot of fun! There weren't too many around here so I started organizing different meets. We try to have at least one or two a year, and there are others as well.

Hint: You can put an event together yourself and not wait for someone else to do it.:T

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

TerryO said:


> They are a lot of fun! There weren't too many around here so I started organizing different meets. We try to have at least one or two a year, and there are others as well.
> 
> Hint: You can put an event together yourself and not wait for someone else to do it.:T
> 
> ...


Point taken..If I had more time on my hands it could be done but as of now I am delagated to trying to make time just to go anywhere. I appreciate anyone who can take the time to put one of these together so you should be commended.:clap:


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## toyotafan (Jul 31, 2008)

Will spectators have an opportunity to see and hear the entries?


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## spasticteapot (Aug 16, 2010)

I can't make it - I'm from Wisconsin. 

The problem with a lot of budget speaker designs is that the impedance simply goes berserk due to cost-compromised crossover design. Tube amps won't flatter a speaker not designed to deal with them.


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

spasticteapot said:


> I can't make it - I'm from Wisconsin.
> 
> The problem with a lot of budget speaker designs is that the impedance simply goes berserk due to cost-compromised crossover design. Tube amps won't flatter a speaker not designed to deal with them.


Most of the problems we've seen are more due to lack of understanding...about tube amplifiers and/or crossovers. The Pacific Northwest is pretty much a hot-bed of tube gear, so that may be why so few people around here have experienced any difficulties.

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

toyotafan said:


> Will spectators have an opportunity to see and hear the entries?


We always try to have a room set aside just for spectators (the evaluations taking place in the Judge's room are off limits). This allows people to listen to the various entries played by a system as close to the one the Judges listen to. Bring your favorite cds and listen to music that you're familiar with. You can also talk to speakerbuilders about design, etc. as there is usually an assortment of professionals and advanced hobbyists hanging around.

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

First of all, I'd like to thank Kevin Haskins for the kind words about our event. Kevin really came through for me time and time again, as I was bogged down with some family matters earlier this spring. I tend to give him a lot of flack, but he is indeed a true long-standing (long suffering?) friend. He not only got the word out about the Contest while I was tied up, but also served as a member of our technical committee and as an alternate Judge. He was also kind enough to donate some great prizes, including some Hypex amp modules.

While I'm on the subject, I'd also like to thank Dave Rosgaard for all his help, which was considerable. Dave not only created a spread sheet for scoring the Judge's evaluation sheets, he also created and printed out the certificates and served as the Technical Assistant in the Judging room, setting the SPL levels and passing out the eval forms. He's a superb Speaker Designer and is one of a very (very) small handful of people in the world that can successfully design Series Crossovers. Dave and I are old Audio Buddies and have traveled to many meets together over the years. He also served on the Technical Committee. 

John Nail is from Eastern Washington, so we don't get to see him as often as we'd like, but he's attended a number of our meets and Contests. John is a dedicated and very knowledgeable speaker builder, with a highly developed degree of Craftsmanship thrown in. He is probably best known for his "Purple Puppies" which featured a Watt Puppy style cabinet with a fabulous (and unforgettable!) Imperial Purple paint job. John has served on our Technical Committee, as well as volunteering to do the measurements. He also brought some great prizes for the contestants. 

Jerry Pomeroy is the former long-standing President of the Pacific Northwest Audio Society. His dedication and enthusiasm is contagious and he deserves a great deal of credit for making things gel. It's hard to overestimate the contributions that Jerry has made over the years in our efforts to keep things moving. I might add that Jerry made his debut as a diy speaker builder this year, entering a kit design that looked and sounded great! Great work!

Probably the hardest, and most important job, of the whole Contest is that of our Judges.
We've been extremely fortunate in having some of the best people around staffing our panel. 

Winston Ma, the owner of First Impression Music (perhaps the finest Audiophile label in existence) was unable to be here this year due to a prior commitment. Winston was a well known Music and equipment reviewer in Asia for several decades before immigrating to the United States. He has served with distinction as a Judge in all our prior Contests and was missed.

Mike Lavigne, who writes for Positive Feedback is an Audiophile in the finest sense of the term. He has uncanny hearing and auditory memory, perhaps the best I've ever seen, along with an encyclopedic knowledge of music. His critique of the "unseen" speaker entries almost exactly matches what is subsequently measured. What a track record!

Bruce Brown, is the owner of Puget Sound Studios, a SOTA Recording/Mastering studio which serves some of the best known high-end labels and artists. He has served several times as a judge in prior Contests. Bruce has a degree in Music (among others) and is also a musician. He has been the person responsible for mastering/producing Hi-Rez discs with the Judge's Music selections for the contests. As a technical aside, this year's disc had a tested Block Error Rate (BLER) of under 5, whereas Audiophile Labels are usually happy with a Block Error Rate between 20-40. It's my understanding that JVC's R&D Lab in Japan is (sometimes) able to get a BLER of 3!

Renan Jefferies is a retired Software Engineer from one of the giant firms based in Seattle (you can probably guess which one). His father was a music lover, who instilled a life-long love of the same in Renan. He listens primarily to Jazz and Classical music and has excellent taste in music and can easily distinguish flaws in a performance or it's reproduction. Renan has also served several times as one of our Judges.

The people that helped set up the rooms on Friday night and clean up after the event should also get credit, quite simply because if these important tasks weren't performed, there'd be no Contest.

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

I forgot to include thanks to Gary Gesellchen for jumping into the breach when John Nail was running late due to Traffic. Gary set up his own measuring gear and went to town, so there weren't any delays.


As many of you seem to be interested in the outcome of the Contest, 
here are the results:

Original Designs

*Best 3-Way (under $300) and also Best of Show:*

Gary Gesellchen

Dayton 8" woofer
Vifa 4" mid
Seas 3/4" dome tweeter 
Crossover: 2nd order L-R @ 250 & 3500 Hz
Cost of components & crossover $240.00

Runner up for both awards (by just a few points):

Dave Rosgaard

Silver Flute W17RC38-08 6.5 inch Wool Cone woofer
Seas 10 F-M 4" treated paper cone midrange
Peerless 811435 1' textile dome tweeter 
Crossover: Series 3rd Order electrical @ 900 & 3500 Hz
Cost of components & crossover $195.00

*2-Way (Under $200) and third overall in points*

Terry Olson

1.5" Radio Shack close-out full range shielded drivers (12 per speaker)
Adire Audio AV8 8" shielded woofer
Series crossover 2nd order highpass, first order lo-pass @ 450 Hz
Cost of components and crossover $81.00

*Single Driver (one way) *

*1-way over $75.00*

Howard Grim

Fostex 206E Fullrange plus Passive Radiator
Side or Bottom Firing, Back loaded horn
Cost of components $260.00

*1-way under $75.00*

Peter Karsborn

Tangband 3"
Bottom Firing Pipe 
Cost of Drivers $28.00



*Kits*

*Kit over $375 and top points for kits*

Jerry Pomeroy

Kit designer: Kevin Haskins (Exodus Audio)
Exodus Audio 6.1
Usher 1" dome tweeter
Extremis 6.5" midwoofer
Crossover: L-R 4th order Frequency (?)
Cost $400.00

*Kit under $175*

Carl Ravenscroft

Kit design: 2-way, unknown tapered pipe design
Driver Coaxial Tannoy 1667
Crossover: Stock Tannoy, frequency unknown
Cost: $125.00 

Best Regards,
TerryO


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## TerryO (Jul 26, 2006)

I almost forgot, but it's not too late to wish my pal, Kevin Haskins a............

Happy Birthday!

I believe he is now older than I am.:neener:

Best Regards,
TerryO


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