# TVreplay HT



## TVReplay (Aug 22, 2009)

Well here we go. In a few weeks I will be starting on my basement which will include a HT and I am looking for some guidance/support/kick in the head in a few areas. I will give you info on the room first and questions second.

The room
A blank slate only framed from a previous owner but I am willing to move walls.
17' Wide 23' Long and 8'9" ceilings
No windows
Concrete floor will be carpeted and thick pad
Drywall will be used walls and ceiling
Sound issues are minimal only to bedroom above which is mine. Two sides go to storage, one is exterior wall and the entry wall will be full heavy curtains floor to ceiling and wall to wall.

Projector 
Ceiling mounted Panasonic 3000
Future build of an anamorphic lens

Screen
Want between 100"-120"
DIY Open to suggestions
Trying to decide between a 16x9 with masking for 2:35 or a 2:35 with masking for 16x9.
Eventually want to get a electric screen that drops to cover a flat screen that will be on the wall.

Seating
Couch initially then upgrade later to better seating
Single Row

Speakers
5.2 System
Klipsch RF-63, RC-64, RS-52, 2x RW-10d
Fronts and center will be built in wall (I know this is a no-no but the wife has her say) in alcove behind framed speaker cloth like the Tanner Ridge Build but flat wall all the way across.
The 2 subs will be in the room (I did win that battle)
Surrounds hang on wall

Receiver 
Eventually able to feed the Projector and a future flat screen, Multizone Video (If there is a cheaper way tell me Please)
Still kicking around which single unit, leaning toward Denon 4310CI or Emotiva when it becomes available.

Soundproofing
Ceiling-Insulation in the joists and Green Glue between two layers of drywall
In Wall-Nothing as there is no adjoining rooms other than storage
In Room-DIY sound absorption on walls

Questions
1 I will have 2 HVAC supply vents and 1 return. I saw in others use flex vent, how important is this? The return uses a wall cavity, how do I sound proof this?

2 When I build the box that the speakers go in is it better to build a smaller box with some sound absorption or a bigger box more?

3 With only one row of seating how high should the screen be off the floor?

4 What am I missing?

I have many more specific questions but will post them in the appropriate areas.

I will post a picture when I figure out how.

Thanks to all that have posted their build threads, I have learned so much from this forum and now believe that I can actually do this.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Sounds like a nice project and a nice large space.

You really need to fill the walls with insulation. They'll ring like a drum if you don't. Also, no need to do GG and double drywall on the ceiling if you're not doing the walls too. Sound will flank through the walls and up in the gap between the walls and upstairs.

1. Don't use anything but flex. Tin will ring and resonate like mad. If the return is in the wall, it's a huge sound hole. Think about moving it.

2. Box for speakers? PLEASE don't do that. You'd be better of to build a false wall with just studs and cloth to keep them hidden and not kill their performance. Subs can go back there too as well as treatments.

3. General rule of thumb is seated eye level at approx 1/3 up the screen.

Bryan


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## TVReplay (Aug 22, 2009)

bpape


bpape said:


> 1. Don't use anything but flex. Tin will ring and resonate like mad. If the return is in the wall, it's a huge sound hole. Think about moving it.
> Bryan


I will do that for the supplies and the return. 
Do I use the same size for both as I have two supplies and only a single return? I could add another but would have to do some reworking of the storage area that is on that side of the wall.



bpape said:


> 2. Box for speakers? PLEASE don't do that. You'd be better of to build a false wall with just studs and cloth to keep them hidden and not kill their performance. Subs can go back there too as well as treatments.
> Bryan


Can you explain why this is such a bad thing? 
I don't quite understand if the speaker is as close to the speaker cloth in front how the "box" behind affects the sound in front. I'm not against building a false wall but haven't considered it. 
If I did could I finish the room with walls and carpet and then build the false wall inside of that so if needed I could take it down with out having to redo that entire part of the room? The reason is I'm trying to keep a future home sale in mind.

I tried 3 times to upload a diagram of the planned room but Safari keep failing when I chose the file.
Thanks and I just realized we live close.


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## TVReplay (Aug 22, 2009)

Just got it to work


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

In general, in a high BTU situation like a home theater (lots of equipment, PJ, many people, etc.) we recommend 2x the return that there is supply.

You can build the false wall after the room is drywalled (and should) so pretty easy to take down.

Building speakers in a wall that are not designed for that will not sound anything like what they're designed to sound like. Part of a good crossover is compensating for the width of the baffle and how far the woofer is from the edge as well as the tweeter. When you build them into the wall, you're effectively making the baffle size the entire wall so the xover compensation is completely wrong, bass response is different, etc.

Building a skeleton wall with just cloth does not increase that baffle effective area, still allows for good imaging depth, etc.

Bryan


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

TVReplay said:


> Trying to decide between a 16x9 with masking for 2:35 or a 2:35 with masking for 16x9.
> Eventually want to get a electric screen that drops to cover a flat screen that will be on the wall.


I would go for the 2.35:1 screen, particularly if you're planning on adding an anamorphic lens..
The Pana.3000 with it's auto aspect ratio change will work well on a 2.35 screen in the meantime..





> With only one row of seating how high should the screen be off the floor?


This will depend on whether you use a 16:9 or 2.35:1 screen..
With the latter, you will need it to be no more than 24" off the floor (mine is 22") to get that immersive feeling..

Also, you can sit a bit closer than you're showing for that size screen with a 1080p projector..
I would suggest a max. of 10'..which would then give you enough room for a second row..


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Good Luck with your project....:T



> Fronts and center will be built in wall (I know this is a no-no but the wife has her say) in alcove behind framed speaker cloth like the Tanner Ridge Build but flat wall all the way across.
> The 2 subs will be in the room (I did win that battle)
> Surrounds hang on wall


I completelly agree with Bryan, build a flase wall (I'm sure that there's one in Tanner Ridge Cinema); it will look awesome and the speakers will be hiden or if you want you can build the wall around them .....I know that it will be more work, but if you can build some columns to hide the other speakers your room will look cleaner :sweat:



> In Wall-Nothing as there is no adjoining rooms other than storage
> In Room-DIY sound absorption on walls


I also agree with Bryan, I used a bonus room as HT, all walls didn't have any insulation.... so you can hear everything in the adjacent room....if you can, use insulation to fill the cavities, you won't be sorry.

Also, remember that you need to cover the whole front wall with insulation to kill all reflections.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

It looks like you'll be about 14' back from your screen. Using this calculator it looks like 125" would be ideal (give or a take a few inches).

Is that a concrete wall on the one side? You most likely would want to insulate that wall. Not just to stop resonance or sound echoing off it, but for thermal reasons. Everyone else is right about the other walls. One of the best parts about soundproofing your HT isn't to keep the sound in the room, it's to keep outside sound from getting in. I can tell you that adds a lot to the experience, especially in suspenseful movies.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Back to the questions about the ventilation in the wall: This will certainly cause problems. You have to attenuate the energy in a duct before releasing it into your walls and ceiling.

There is a general misconception that bringing flex duct to a jobsite removes all risk. Absolutely not the case. Send me a PM if you'd like expanded articles on this topic.


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## TVReplay (Aug 22, 2009)

Well weeks have turned into longer but the day has arrived. 
The speakers will not be built in wall but will be out for all to admire. 
All walls and ceiling will be insulated. 
Ceiling will be DD and GGed as the three surrounding walls lead to nothing that need sound proofing.



When I bought the house the basement was framed and HVAC run.

Wall on the left when facing the screen is only partially a concrete wall. 
 

A few questions. 
Is there one brand of flex duct and duct liner that is better than others without breaking the bank? The only ones I found are Owens Corning and a no name brand at Home Depot. 

I am looking for suggestions on what to do with this return. I was thinking of making it twice as deep with offset bump-outs so the sound has to zig-zag thru and lined with duct liner. Or taking it out and using flex duct with a few turns as I have the space.
 
 

What is the best conduit to use for low voltage cable? PVC?

How low should the projector be mounted?

Other than AC and HDMI should anything else be pre-run to the projector?

What is the longest run for HDMI? I can't find a common answer anywhere.

I'm sure I will have many more questions but this will get me in trouble, I mean going for now.

Happy Holidays to everyone.





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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

TVReplay said:


> Ceiling will be DD and GGed as the three surrounding walls lead to nothing that need sound proofing.


You might be disappointed with the outcome here. I recommend doing the same treatemt to all walls, otherwise you provide the sound a flanking path around the ceiling you're carefully crafting.


> What is the best conduit to use for low voltage cable? PVC?
> 
> How low should the projector be mounted?
> 
> ...


PVC is good. Projector height will depend on a few factors, such as lens-shift and screen height, throw distance... and exactly which projector... this website has a good calculator that can help...
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator-pro.cfm
You should leave at least one "string" in the conduit for future pulls. Some people like to pre-runa spare HDMI, or a 12V trigger, or the like. Longest run for HDMI depends on some things. Different equipment seems to be able to handle larger runs (or not). I've heard of people doing 25' or more with no problems, but my cousin had problems at 6 ft.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Agreed. Your isolation is only as good as the weakest link. Just doing the ceiling and not watching outlets, switches, lights, walls, doors, etc. leaves a LOT of paths for sound to flank through and right upstairs.

Bryan


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## TVReplay (Aug 22, 2009)

I will take the recommendations and dd/gg the wall.

What is a 12v trigger?

What brand of flex duct is best to use?


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

TVReplay said:


> What is the best conduit to use for low voltage cable? PVC?
> 
> How low should the projector be mounted?
> 
> ...


The grey Carlon conduit is excellent. I'd use at least 1 3/4" or 2" to the projector. The HDMI connectors aren't huge, but to future proof against potentially larger connectors (like DVI) bigger is better.

Ensure that the projector can breathe (ie: hot air can escape and cool air can be drawn in). 6" to a foot seems to be what most mounts do. With lens shift it doesn't really matter where it is placed however. It used to be (without lens shift) that the projector would need to be centered and at the top of the screen to avoid keystoning.

Don't run AC to the projector through the conduit (not sure if that's what you meant). Just wire a receptacle at the projector. I think running extension cords through low voltage conduit is against code. A trigger out could be run if you have a motorized screen or curtains or another device that can be triggered using it when the projector is turned on.

It all depends on the quality of the cable. Thicker AWG cable will go longer. Certified 1.3 cables will do 1080p to their specified length. Generally you get into trouble once you get more that 5M with most cables. If you plan on going more than 16 feet you'll need a thick cable. Monoprice has some decently priced 22AWG cables for under $30. I have a 25ft 22AWG cable and have had no issues with it. Even with a 22AWG cable you could run into problems over 30-35 feet and might need an extender/repeater to boost the signal. The theoretical maximum is 50 feet. You won't find any certified cables that long though.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Wall(s)  Again, only as good as your weakest link. For ducting, use some sort of flex (not tin) inside an MDF box with a couple bends in it. Shoot me a PM. Will be happy to come over and show you in person what needs to be done.

Bryan


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> The theoretical maximum is 50 feet.


Where's that come from?


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