# Denon or Pioneer Elite?



## Blair387

Hey everyone,

I've been doing tons and tons of research of speakers and receivers and such for the past year. It's a slow process but I'm slowly piecing everything together. I currently have paradigm monitor 9 for my fronts, and plan on getting the cc-390 center and adp-390 surrounds. Anyways I currently don't have a receiver yet, but have been doing tons of research, I just need some opinions.

For the most part I have been doing tons of research and reading reviews for the pioneer elite sc-25/sc-27 and have been hearing great things about them. I hear pioneer is really accurate according to their claimed power ratings, and being one of the only few receivers to feature a class D amp, they are supposed to be much more efficient and run a lot cooler. But they only thing I'm torn on is that I have read that they don't have any kind of video processing, except for analog signals?

So recently I started reading about the denon 4310ci. Reviews have been really good as well and it's supposed to have a really good video processor/ upconverter. I've tried reading forums trying to compare the two, but it seems to be about 50/50 between the two brands. A lot of people prefer denon's audyssey vs pioneer's mcacc setup.

So my question for everyone is, if anyone has had any experience with either of these, any advice would be great. And what do you think would have a better sound with my paradigm monitor speakers? Also, the price between these is pretty close to the same, so that's no issue there.

Thanks for your help.


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## Ares

Do you mean with those two models or with Audyssey and MCACC?


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## Blair387

Well I was asking for anyone with experience with either of these two receivers? But if anybody has any opinions on the audyssey or mcacc that would be helpful too.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Audyssey and Pioneer's proprietary MCACC both have their supporters. MCACC really was out ahead of competing Room EQ's and I have great respect for their innovation. Personally, I greatly prefer Audyssey's MultEQ due to the ability to work wonders on the Subwoofer Channel and Low Frequencies in general. MCACC, last I looked, only worked down to 60 Hz.

Moreover, Audyssey is the brainchild of Tomlinson Holman (THX stands for Tomlinson Holman Experiment), and fellow USC Professor Chris Kyriakakis. The Technology has won countless Awards and in my view, really offers something special.

The AVR-4310 is a nice AVR. I do wish it had a more powerful Amplifier Section given its cost. In all honesty, I really think Onkyo's TX-NR5007 is in another league while still being available for about the same price.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eugovector

I trust the science behind Audyssey more than MACC, but it may not make a big difference in the sound of your system depending on room treatments, how well you've positioned your speakers, room size/shape, etc.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Marshall, that is an excellent point. Rooms that are acoustically sound do not sound very different when using Audyssey, MCACC, YPAO, Trinnov, etc.. It is the Rooms where there Standing Waves, Nulls, and other nasties where these Room EQ's really can make the best out of an less than ideal situation.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino

I've got a Denon 3808 and love it. It drives my paradigm 11's and the rest of my setup with authority. I've always been partial to both brands but have heard very googd things about pioneer.


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## tonyvdb

Either the Pioneer or the Denon are good choices but I also will throw in Onkyo into the mix as well as Yamaha. My personal preference is Onkyo (I've been a big supporter of Yamaha until recently) Bang for buck Onkyo is on top and given you can find the Onkyo 876 for $850 (normally $1800) There is nothing in its price range that even comes close.


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## JCD

So, just some general statements..

Between Pioneer and Denon, I would choose Denon every time. Denon's are built like tanks. And I know this is just hearsay, but Pioneer has had some problems with their QC.

That being said, the current conventional wisdom is that Onkyo is the best bang for the buck receiver out there.

I have a Paradigm setup for speakers and like them a lot. I also have ADP's for my surrounds -- and wish I would have gotten a direct firing non-bipole speaker (something like the studio 20's). I think you're paying for drivers that you really don't need with Dolby Digital's discrete signals for the surrounds. I think in the prologic days they made sense, but not so much with the current DD or DTS schemes. I also think they're harder to set up properly.


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## Dale Rasco

I personally replaced my Denon with a Pioneer Elite SC-05 and the some of the biggest differences I noticed were much better power management with the ICE power and I personally prefer the MCACC over the Audysey however, Jack is correct as the MCACC still will not EQ below 60Hz. That being said, I will never part with my SC-05 and if I actually do it will be for another Pioneer Elite. 

My issues with the Denon were around QC as I had to send it in twice due to issues with the power supply so I have a personal dislike for Denon's QC. 

I also agree with Jacen and Tony in that you may want to at least go listen to one of the Onkyo's as well. All things aside, I don't think you can really go wrong with either of these receivers. :T


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## Blair387

thanks for you replies everyone. Still kinda up in the air. I still seem to be getting about even amount of positives and negatives between the two. I'm sure I would be happy with either. Cause currently I just have an old home theater in a box setup. It's like six years old JVC 5.1 system. So I'm sure anything will be way better than what I currently have. I'm still leaning more to the pioneer sc elite line due to their ice amps and more consistent power ratings. And also I don't really plan on using any sort of "height" or "width" speakers for the dolby pro logic IIz feature on the denon. So that would basically be no use for me.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
While long being a fan of Denon, I sadly question their direction since being Sold to Ripplewood Holdings which became D&M upon merging with Marantz (D&M Holdings)

While Denon enjoys a stellar reputation and is almost always more expensive than comparable AVR's from other Brands, lately the Amplifier Sections have been not as impressive as they used to be. 

Denon's 05 Series were fantastic. Especially the gonzo 90+ Pounds AVR-5805. However, even the 1200 Dollar 3805 was an excellent AVR which weighed 37.5 Pounds and featured Denon Link, AL24 Processing and much more. For comparisons sake, the AVR-4310 sells for 2000 Dollars and weighs only 34.8 Pounds.

This de-contenting of the Amplifier Section really can be seen in the AVR-3310 which weighs 28.6 Pounds while still retailing for 1500 Dollars. That same money will purchase Onkyo's TX-NR1007 which weighs over 50 Pounds, offers THX Ultra2 Plus Certification and Processing, 9 Channels of Amplification compared to 7, and more.

While I still admire Denon, it has been disappointing to watch what has happened in respect to the Amplifier Sections of their AVR's. You have to spend 5000 Dollars to even have a Denon AVR that is THX Ultra2 Certified in the AVR-5308. Even the 3000 Dollar AVR-4810 is not THX Certified, but at least it is an 9.3 AVR. Amazingly, it still only weighs 42.2 Pounds.
Again, for comparisons sake, Denon did have the THX Ultra2 Certified AVR-4806 that weighed 52.6 Pounds and sold for 3500 Dollars

Cheers,
JJ


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## roadroach357

Pioneer Elite all the way. I replaced my mid-level Denon 2808 with an Elite SC-07 and was blown away by the difference in sound and headroom. The 2808 always seemed like it was struggling and the SC-07 never runs out of gas. And MCACC is much more effective in my room than Audyssey ever was. MCACC even allows for tweaking the results to your liking if you so desire. The Elite's only EQ down to 63Hz so I bought a Behringer Feedback Destroyer to EQ my subs and I have complete control over them. And I would buy an Elite again if it ever came down to it.


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## peterselby7

Pioneer elite is a good brand and I dont' think they are cut from the same cloth as say the regular Pioneer products. I have an old Elite receiver and it performs flawlessly after nearly 10 years of use. Sounds really good too. Why not try to buy the model up used on audiogon or videogon? They usually run about half the price of new... Just a thought.


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