# Blue Ray-ray player with Direct Source Ability ?



## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

Wondering if someone might be able to help me.

As I have a big collection of Standard Def DVD's, I am looking for a Blue-ray player that can simply pass-over the video signal to my AV Amp without tampering with it. My AV amp will have the ability to up-convert or up-scale the SD signal to 1080p for output via my projector.

I don't want to spend tons of money on a high end BD Player with all the bells and whistles. I was seriously considering the Panasonic DMP BD35 or BD60 but neither of these players is able to hand over the video signal coming off a SD-DVD to my amp without processing it. In other words they lack a source direct mode.

I'd like to know whether there is someone out there who knows how I can solve this problem without having to lay down the extra cash for a player like the Oppo BDP-83 just because it has the so called direct mode. I know the Oppo has a ton of features and is capable of loading Blue-ray discs much faster but I may not need those features and speed.

Any solutions or suggestions will be appreciated.

Alternatively, I'm wondering what kind results one would get if they used a Panasonic DMP BD35/60 to play SD-DVDs and hooked it up to an AV amp with a good up-scaler like the Onkyo TX-NR906 (or Denon AVR-4310). I'm of the opinion that a double up-scaling process would occur, once in the player itself and then in the amp. This double processing or up-scaling of the video might deteriorate the final video quality or may add artifacts to the final projected image. 

Does anybody here have any knowledge or experience with such stuff ? :help:


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

If the BD player were to upscale the DVD to 1080P, your AVR shouldn't do any further processing resulting in "double up-scaling".

I'm not immediately familiar with a blu-ray player that will pass 480i/p (unless you set that as the Blu-ray's output, which may be possible). Maybe someone else will have a suggestion.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
What you need to look for are Blu Ray players which offer a "Source Direct" option. Not all players do.
Pioneer's middle and upper line player offer it. I am pretty sure most Sony's do as well. In addition the OPPO BDP-83 has Source Direct.

With Source Direct, the players outputs 480i for DVD and 1080p/24 for Blu Ray to your processor. For upsampling DVD's having Source Direct is huge.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

Well, there seem to be solutions but none that is cost effective. I am amazed that such a simple feature such as Source Direct is only available on mid to high end players.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Sam Ash said:


> Well, there seem to be solutions but none that is cost effective. I am amazed that such a simple feature such as Source Direct is only available on mid to high end players.


I agree Sam, all players should have source direct modes and am sure it cannot be that difficult to implement into the players software...

But like I have said before all players should perform very similar when outputing 1080p24 BD and that the AV amps should allow source direct so the PQ gets untouched...


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

recruit said:


> I agree Sam, all players should have source direct modes and am sure it cannot be that difficult to implement into the players software...
> 
> But like I have said before all players should perform very similar when outputing 1080p24 BD and that the AV amps should allow source direct so the PQ gets untouched...


I totally agree with you, seems like I have no choice but to go for the Oppo BDP-83. Did not want to spend that kind of money but then there is no alternative ! :huh:


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

There are other choices Sam, but none that can perform as good as the Oppo for the money


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

recruit said:


> There are other choices Sam, but none that can perform as good as the Oppo for the money


What would be your alternative recommendation John ?


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Sam Ash said:


> What would be your alternative recommendation John ?


The Sony players are good VFM, especially the S360 and I have owned Panasonic in the past, but they are all very basic in comparison, if all you want is BD playback then maybe they would suffice?


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

recruit said:


> The Sony players are good VFM, especially the S360 and I have owned Panasonic in the past, but they are all very basic in comparison, if all you want is BD playback then maybe they would suffice?


Well if it was only a BD issue, then I would have settled for a Panasonic player. Need to solve the SD-DVD issue too and that is where the real problem is.

Thanks allot for all your help, it seems like I'll be going for the Oppo.


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

I also believe (100%) that the new Pioneer BDP-320 Blu-ray player has a Source Direct mode, without any processing,
a video pass-through. List price is $399, but less on the street. I thought you might want to know about that one too. 

* But the Oppo BDP-83 is definitively the way to go. :T


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

Lordoftherings said:


> I also believe (100%) that the new Pioneer BDP-320 Blu-ray player has a Source Direct mode, without any processing,
> a video pass-through. List price is $399, but less on the street. I thought you might want to know about that one too.
> 
> * But the Oppo BDP-83 is definitively the way to go. :T



Thanks for that information Bob, any idea how it compares to the Oppo BDP-83 ? 

What does it lack compared to the Oppo ?

Also is it possible to get a mod chipped version (Region free BD & DVD) of the Pioneer BD Player ?


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi Sam,

Like I said, the Oppo is the way to go, mucho mucho better player, all the way baby. :T

* If you want to know how they compare, just check at Home Theater Mag, both players are reviewed there.
Me, I'll take the Oppo any day of the week.

The Pioneer is a very slow player as to loading time, navigation and firmware update.
The Oppo by comparison is light speed fast.

Sam, are you from the UK?
I don't have a clue about the Pioneer capability to be mod.
But I know the Oppo is capable. :bigsmile:

> And more about reviews of the Oppo BDP-83: http://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-bdp-83/blu-ray-BDP-83-Review.aspx

Have a great day,
Bob


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## Blktre (Sep 11, 2008)

Other than a multiple format player, why is Oppo all that much better? The video chip is top rated. But matched with a processor that has an equally impressive chip, i just cant see spending the extra $200 to possibly not even use this nice chip inside the Oppo. Couldnt you save the extra bucks on the Oppo and put that money into a decent processor instead? That is if multiple formats are not a big thing to you. Just asking?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Blktre said:


> Other than a multiple format player, why is Oppo all that much better? The video chip is top rated. But matched with a processor that has an equally impressive chip, i just cant see spending the extra $200 to possibly not even use this nice chip inside the Oppo. Couldnt you save the extra bucks on the Oppo and put that money into a decent processor instead? That is if multiple formats are not a big thing to you. Just asking?


Hello,
Where the OPPO's price makes sense is if you are a collector of SACD/DVD-A's and really want an all in one player. In addition, the OPPO offers some of the fastest load times of Blu Ray discs on the market and excellent DVD playback.

All the same, if you do not own SACD's and DVD-A's, and are using an HDMI 1.3 processor to decode and process, there are certainly cheaper players out there that will do an excellent job as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Blktre (Sep 11, 2008)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Where the OPPO's price makes sense is if you are a collector of SACD/DVD-A's and really want an all in one player. In addition, the OPPO offers some of the fastest load times of Blu Ray discs on the market and excellent DVD playback.
> 
> All the same, if you do not own SACD's and DVD-A's, and are using an HDMI 1.3 processor to decode and process, there are certainly cheaper players out there that will do an excellent job as well.
> ...


Thanks,
As much as i like Oppo, I just cant see buying one because exactly what you posted.....

Cheers.....


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Blktre said:


> Other than a multiple format player, why is Oppo all that much better? The video chip is top rated. But matched with a processor that has an equally impressive chip, i just cant see spending the extra $200 to possibly not even use this nice chip inside the Oppo. Couldnt you save the extra bucks on the Oppo and put that money into a decent processor instead? That is if multiple formats are not a big thing to you. Just asking?


1. Are you looking for a nice blu-ray player with Source Direct mode? Meaning that you already have a nice VP (Video Processor) in your TV display, front projector, A/V Receiver or separate VP.

2. Or one with a nice Video Processor chip in it for less than $200?

* If yes to #1, the Panny DMP-BD60 does not have a Source Direct mode, but will do nonetheless.

** If yes to #2, again, the Panny BD60 is only $130 (street price).

-> Oh, and the BD60 is also adept to display a great picture from DVDs. 
["And even from a component-video connection, DVD movies for the most part looked crisp."]

["The BD60 aced all of the HQV Blu-ray Disc tests. It also passed most tests on the DVD version of the same program, only coming up short on the Assorted Cadences torture tests. As expected given these results, the BD60's picture quality was uniformly superb with both Blu-ray and DVD movies by way of HDMI."]

*** The Oppo BDP-83 is mainly for a niche market; people that want a Universal Blu-ray player that also plays SACD, DVD Audio and HDCD encoded discs. Plus it also happens to have a great Video Processor too (Anchor Bay ABT2010), with various video adjustments. And the front face is not made of plastic, but solid aluminium. And it looks cool too. And it performs with excellence. And it operates quickly with fast loading and good navigation. Plus the firmware updates are also fast. Plus you get great service from Oppo customer support.
In addition, the BDP-83 does not cut corners on it's HDMI audio implementation for SACD playback.
And it uses Cirrus Logic Dacs in it's multichannel (CS4382A) & stereo (CS4398) analog sections.
Oh, and did I say that it has a great picture and sound on anything you throw at it.
Finally, at only $499, it is THEE VERY BEST VALUE on a Universal Blu-ray Player in the WHOLE WORLD, period!

))) Makes any sense? I guess it's a question of choosing your poison for your particular need, with the best method to kill your system in the most effective way... Killer system!... :bigsmile:


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## Blktre (Sep 11, 2008)

Lord, 
You certainly don't have to sell the Oppo to me. Ive been a fan for years. And they are a OEM company to boot. I don't have a single SACD. And at this point don't plan to start buying those. I have tons of CD's as do most people. I do like to listen to music in 2 channel, but there again, i cant afford a sweet HT and a sweet 2 channel system. So i use my 5 channel amp and use my processor for 2 channel. If i wasn't in need of a processor upgrade, the Oppo would make sense. So this leaves the direct source option in the Oppo. A good feature.

The OP (Sam Ash) might consider a AV receiver or processor that has the HDMI by pass instead of the direct source Oppo. Of course this all depends on money. Will it cost more to buy the Oppo and use the direct source feature or will it cost more to find a processor with HDMI by pass? I guess it doesn't really matter where you upscale at but its confusing sometimes where to do it for the best performance and least price. Spending double on chips and only using one of them is a shame.

So for those that already have a decent chip say in the processor and has HDMI by pass and can answer YES to Question 1 and don't need a multi source player I'm thinking the BD80 with 5.1/7/1 analog outputs or the BD60. 

For Blu-Ray movies decide if you want the player to upscale and use the HDMI by pass on the processor (which as stated the BD60 is as good/better as the Oppo) or set up the BD player to output 480i/p for SD disks and let the processor upscale to 1080p. This is where i asked about the $200 difference for the Oppo was worth it or not.

As the OP (Sam Ash) asked about double upscaling, this is another option that could be more affordable than buying the Oppo just for the direct source feature.


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Oh, I'm not selling anything to anyone, I just gave an honest simple opinion, just like you just did here above.
And that is the goodness of forums like these, more info for people, so they can make their own choice.

I like your post, and I think it's very positive for Sam (our OP). Thanks. :T


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## Blktre (Sep 11, 2008)

Thanks Lord. Trying to figure out where to spend your money in this game is very hard to do. And actually very confusing. Luckily for people like us we understand this and just don't head out to the local box store and buy something and wonder later why things don't work. 

Fwiw, a good buddy of mine was a Beta Tester for the Oppo BD83. It was pretty neat listening to his comments of the machine during the testing phase and then watching Oppo make the required adjustments. Another reason Oppo is a nice choice.


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Agreed with your above post.

* Now, if I can only get the money to spend on that Arcam FMJ AVR600. :bigsmile:


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

First and foremost, I'd like to express my sincere appreciation for the wonderful contribution that each and everyone of you have made. It's an honor to be a member of this forum because I have noticed that people here are authentic and willing to provide useful help.

To be honest, I have still not purchased the Oppo even though I believe it is an excellent player. The reason for this is that as a first priority I have decided to invest in a good 7.1 amp (Onkyo TX-NR906) which apparently happens to have an excellent up-scaling chip. My main objective is to be able to upscale my SD DVD playback effectively.

I don't really need the speed and will never invest in SACD or DVDA discs and so it does not make sense for me to invest in an Oppo player.

Bob mentioned the fact that the Panny DMP-BD60 has direct source ability - that is exactly what I want !

Bob, are you sure that the Panny DMP-DB60 has a direct source function ? - I need a firm confirmation on this as I remember I did read something in the past that mentioned the fact that the Panny player does not provide true source direct because the player (by default) does tamper with the signal before it is released. Please clarify this for me, I will really appreciate it.

If the Panny DMP-DB60 is capable of Source Direct then that really solves my problem !!!

Thanks again for all the wonderful help.


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

Lordoftherings said:


> Agreed with your above post.
> 
> * Now, if I can only get the money to spend on that Arcam FMJ AVR600. :bigsmile:


Hi Bob,

It was quite interesting to read all the rave reviews about the FMJ AVR600, I remember reading one review that mentioned that this particular amp is so good that it comes to reference standards and sounds as good as separates with both movies and music.

However, I later came to understand that the FMJ AVR600 has some serious problems which Arcam has been tying to fix. Have a look at this link:-

http://www.avforums.com/forums/arcam-owners-forum/1009712-avr600-firmware-thread-new-post.html

The link will probably take you to the middle of a thread but you can track back and go through it. I realise the fact that you may already know about it but I thought of contributing nevertheless.

Cheers


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The BD60 does not have Source Direct. I would look at the Pioneer BDP-320 or the OPPO BDP-83.
Also, many Sony's offer Source Direct.

However, the majority of BDP's do not offer Source Direct to where your AVR can handle the video processing,
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The BD60 does not have Source Direct.


The Panasonic BD80 dose have it My manual stats it clearly that on their BD80 you can bypass most of the internal processing when listening to audio cds.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Tony, I realize it does do a bypass, but it does not have a function where for DVD's it automatically outputs 480i and the native resolution of BD. I researched this matter for sometime prior to posting that as I thought it offered it.
Here is a post from Chris Boylan of Big Picture Big Sound

"There is no "source direct" function on the Panasonic players so there is no one setting to let your TV do the de-interlacing and upconverting. 

For Blu-rays, you can set the BD60 or BD80 to 1080i resolution and enable 24p output. This will send 1080i/60 discs to your TV at 1080i/60 and will send 1080p discs to your TV at 1080p/24. This will allow your TV to do the HD de-interlacing on those few 1080i/60 blu-ray titles, if you think it does a better job than the player.

For DVDs, you could use the component outputs. If HDMI and component are both active, then component automatically gets 480i output. Then select the component input on your TV for watching DVDs. The only drawback to this is that Panasonic's video processing engine does the de-interlacing on DVDs first, before any other processing, and this is actually not defeatable. When you use the 480i component video output, you are actually getting a de-interlaced/re-interlaced video signal. Panasonic says this process is transparent. I haven't really tested that to see whether it is. 

Some Pioneer players have a source direct feature that passes the signal to a display or processor in its native resolution. But the Pioneer players a.) are really slow; b.) offer no streaming capabilities and c.) are more expensive than the Panasonics.

The upconversion and de-interlacing on the Panasonic players is quite good so with 1080p HDMI output and 24 FPS mode enabled on the player for DVDs, I think you'll get great results on your TV. "
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok, that makes sense.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
With the excellent performance of the Panasonic on DVD's and BD, this really is not an issue. Panasonic does not offer Source Direct on any of their BDP's. Here is a review of the BD80:http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Panasonic_DMP-BD80_Blu-ray_Disc_Player.shtml

While I do use Source Direct because I prefer Reon over the Pioneer DVD processing, with the recent firmware updates, I am actually switching back to 1080p output as the general consensus is that it outperforms the Reon.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Sam Ash (Aug 23, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The BD60 does not have Source Direct. I would look at the Pioneer BDP-320 or the OPPO BDP-83.
> Also, many Sony's offer Source Direct.
> 
> ...


Thanks Jack, my whole objective is to locate a reasonably priced BDP that offers source direct. Something not as expensive as the Oppo BDP-83 but rather an alternative.

Is the Pioneer BDP-320 as expensive as the Oppo BDP-83 ?

What is the most reasonably priced Sony that offers true Source Direct ?

I would have bought the Panasonic BD60 or even the BD35 if they ofered Source Direct.

Cheers


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