# Subwoofer questions (HSU STF-2)



## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

I am thinking of buying the HSU STF-2 subwoofer since my very old Yamaha YST-SW60 sub really sucks, especially when the new THX flower intro played on Clone Wars. It sounded awful; most of the time it is fine, but I guess the THX demo was a little deeper than most of my blu-ray discs. Can someone tell me if the HSU STF-2 will be able to handle the new THX intro? I am not sure what frequencies it is trying to play, but I figure it is below the tuning frequency of the Yamaha (which lists a low frequency of 25Hz, upon further review, it is 10db down at this point).
Also, If I do go this route, can I hook up the Yamaha via the speaker inputs/outputs to my center channel and change it to LARGE on the AV receiver or would I be advised to just let the new subwoofer handle the center low output?
My other subwoofer choice to save money is one of those ebay specials, the PA-120, that I have read about so much. It does not seem like it plays as low or loud as the STF-2, but it is over $100 cheaper. Could it handle the THX intro?

If neither can, could I use a passive high pass filter like a Harrison Labs 12 db/octave? I thought of just slapping one of the 30 Hz modules on my Yamaha just to get me by without messing up the subwoofer.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

I haven't yet heard this THX intro... must go find it :nerd:

What is your budget for a subwoofer? How loud do you normally listen?


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

I really want to stay under $400, but stay as low as possible.
I listen pretty loud when watching movies, usually loud enough that you cannot talk (I do that so that we can watch the movie without anyone talking)


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

I may also consider the VTF-2 MK 3 just because I would have the option to add on the turbocharger module later on.

And Here is the intro, the Amazing Life intro. I think it's the mushrooms that are the deep base culprit.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> I am thinking of buying the HSU STF-2 subwoofer since my very old Yamaha YST-SW60 sub really sucks, ...


Have you considered this  SVS Subs ??? ...I also read a lot of good things about the  JBL L8400P ...

With your budget you're a candidate to DIY one ...I'm in the process of building my first sub, but you'll need to get an amp to power the sub ...:yes:


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

salvasol said:


> Have you considered this  SVS Subs ??? ...I also read a lot of good things about the  JBL L8400P ...
> 
> With your budget you're a candidate to DIY one ...I'm in the process of building my first sub, but you'll need to get an amp to power the sub ...:yes:



i've looked at the SVS subs, with the PB10–NSD being the only one in my price range. However, I have read that the Hsu subs sound just as good or better for a bit less.

I don't want to go DIY at this point, unless i can get something similar to what I have been researching at $100 less.


The JBL seems pretty good from the description, and it has a really high list price. The regular price is pretty good in comparison, unless they just inflated the list price more than most manufacturers. I like that it is a 12" sub. I have always thought that the bigger the better (except in the car because cabin gain really amplifies the low end). Of course, this is the priciest sub out of the three (not counting the VTF-2 MK 3 that I mentioned previously).


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

For DIY you may check out this thread. Should get you better performance than the commercial subs you are looking at, especially if you can make the box a bit bigger and port it :R


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

This one looks promising. If it is THX certified, it should play that intro with no problem and would be an accurate sounding subwoofer.

Too many choices.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

redduck21502 said:


> This one looks promising. If it is THX certified, it should play that intro with no problem and would be an accurate sounding subwoofer.
> 
> Too many choices.


A THX certified subwoofer means nothing as there are subs that will preform better that dont have the certification in that price range. To get into a sub that actually plays down to or below 20Hz with decent db's you will need to spend a bit more cash then your $400 budget. 

How large is your room that the sub is in?



> could I use a passive high pass filter like a Harrison Labs 12 db/octave? I thought of just slapping one of the 30 Hz modules on my Yamaha just to get me by without messing up the subwoofer.


Putting a module will not help with the output below what the Yamaha is already currently doing as thats a limitation of the desgin and you would dammage the sub if you did.


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

That's part of my problem with my budget. The room is 18.5' x 18.5' with 8' ceilings. Plus, one corner opens into the kitchen and dining area. The whole section of the house is about 31' x 22'.

That's why I started looking into the VTF-2 MK 3.

I know it's a large area, but so far the Yamaha has been fine for enough bass, just not the low end bass. I figure it was meant for a very small room and if it sounds OK in my large area, any of the subs mentioned so far should be way better.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The lower frequencies require alot more power and size. Yes the subs mentioned may do better but sadly not much better. Your room is also a perfect square and that will cancel out some of the frequencies due to reflections. Do you have any bass traps or other acoustic paneling in the room?


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

No accoustic panels, not allowed to put them in the living room.
With the opening in the one corner that goes to the dining room and kitchen, should I point the sub towards that opening to avoid cancelation?


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Where were you finding the HSU for $400? The cheapest model listed on their website is almost $500. You won't do much better than the VTF-2 MK 3 at that price.

If you have $500, some spare room and some extra time DIY can get you a lot more (last shamelss plug :nerd. Given your budget and performance requirements I don't see any other options.


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

The STF-2 is under $400

and

The Satin Black VTF-1 is under $400.


I don't have a lot of room to put in a subwoofer that would be noticable. I need to be able to trade places with the current sub and have it not look like it is new. So some gigantic DIY box would not work for me. Getting 4x8 sheets of MDF home is not easy to get home either. I had thought of doing an IB setup, but still need the MDF for a manifold in the attic.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> ... I need to be able to trade places with the current sub and have it *not look like it is new*.


:scratchhead: ...Are you hidding something??? (WAF: wife approval factor by any chance) :whistling: :bigsmile:

Do you mind having a tower/silo in a corner of the room??? ...my sub is a tube (18"x70") it will be in a corner near TV :yes:


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

salvasol said:


> :scratchhead: ...Are you hidding something??? (WAF: wife approval factor by any chance) :whistling: :bigsmile:
> 
> Do you mind having a tower/silo in a corner of the room??? ...my sub is a tube (18"x70") it will be in a corner near TV :yes:



I think a small tower in the corner would be a bit too conspicuous. 

At one point I was going to make an 8 cu ft box for my old infinity 12" sub just to get lower extension on the base. I was going to make a footstool out of it since my wife wants a footstool; that way i would kill 2 birds with one stone. I just hate the idea of borrowing a truck to bring home the MDF and then cutting it up. I don't trust the bozos at Lowes to cut the pieces for me. I think they will make 2 cuts for free, but I just do not see them being precise enough for a subwoofer enclosure. I suppose I could have them cut it in half length-wise for 2x8 sheets and fit them in the CR-V. Then just use that dimension for one of the dimensions on the box. I just know that the infinity sub would not handle much power and would not be very loud at 100 watts. However, still better than the Yamaha I would imagine.

I might just take the plunge into one of the Hsu subs (or maybe the JBL or the SVS). I like the cheaper one, but the other one is on sale for a decent price. I really think that any of the subs would be better than the Yamaha, and I am thinking that all of the subs mentioned would not bottom out like my Yamaha did on the THX intro.

Sounds like I am going to have to find the best sub for what I am willing to spend. I really think that I do not need to worry so much about room size and shape right now. I don't have a dedicated HT in place, nor will I for a long time, so I have to make due with what I can. As long as the bass is low and is loud or louder than the Yamaha, I should be very happy. It cannot be too loud anyway, I almost got in trouble with the train on The Polar Express the other day. You cannot convince a woman/wife that the film makers made it roar that loud, not the subwoofer or receiver volume knob. I think I may pick up one of the boxes and stick it behind my chair or the sofa so that I can hear it without it being too loud. Right now it's in the right front corner facing the far corner (not directly facing the corner, slightly off because I figured the soundwaves would bounce right back and start cancelling out).


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## jaysonbarnett (May 4, 2008)

I just watched that intro on the movie today(star wars clone wars) on my epik caliber and WOW that is the coolest thx intro yet. I did not get any clipping or distortion, and i was playing the intro on -5 on my onkyo 805. my sub is calibrated to 84 DB on my radio shack meter (the rest of speakers to 75db) so this is loud and the sub held up and sounded great. hope this helps and i am not saying the caliber is the best. All im saying is the caliber sound great with that intro.


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

Well I ordered the Hsu STF-2. Apparently some of the other Hsu prices were special pricing from the weekend, so I didn't go VTF. I was really leaning towards the PB10–NSD because it looked really good on paper, but after reading comparison tests, including one head to head test, I figured that I could save some omoney on the STF-2. The head to head indicated that he could not audibly hear a difference in the extreme low-end as the specs showed. I suppose that if the output is not enough due to the more open section of the house, I can always add a second one later. If I ever decide to dedicate one room for HT that can be closed off, I think this particular subwoofer will be more than enough. They are indicating that it is for up to 3000 cu ft. My basement rooms are only 2500 cu ft, so it would be matched up very well. I plan to place the subwoofer in the back corner near my recliner and sofa so that I hopefully will not need to turn it up too loud to hear the low end.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> I might just take the plunge into one of the Hsu subs (or maybe the JBL or the SVS). I like the cheaper one, but the other one is on sale for a decent price.


I know that you can get JBL on ebay for around $300 (there's two that you can buy right now for 389 and 399, the others are auction) ...you can also look for used subs (if you don't mind), craigtlist, audiogon, videogon, kijiji are good places to start.

Your yamaha is 60RMS ...so anything bigger will sound better; I have a Velodyne VRP1000 and Infinity TSS750 (150RMS each and frequency response 35Hz -150Hz) ...that's why I'm building my Sonosub to go a little lower :yes:

EDIT: Oops ...to late. Congratulations on your purchase.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

redduck21502 said:


> The head to head indicated that he could not audibly *hear* a difference in the extreme low-end as the specs showed.


I question anyone who says that, as anything below about 30Hz is not heard but felt and that is where a sub really starts to make an impact. Also the ratings that it is large enough to fill a 3000sq ft room is highly exaggerated.
Congratulations on your decision, for the money its about as good as you can get unless you buy used. Post your thoughts on it once you have it set up.


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> I question anyone who says that, as anything below about 30Hz is not heard but felt and that is where a sub really starts to make an impact. Also the ratings that it is large enough to fill a 3000sq ft room is highly exaggerated.
> Congratulations on your decision, for the money its about as good as you can get unless you buy used. Post your thoughts on it once you have it set up.


I shall post my impressions. Although, the comparison will be between the Hsu and the Yamaha. I am sure it will be quite a difference, considering the Yamaha was something lik <$75 back in the mid to late 90's. That and the Yamaha is like a 7.5" woofer with a 60 Watt amp (I think). My wife is probably better than any meter I could get. When she starts wrinkling her nose and yelling at me, I will know it is loud enough for me (or at least for "us").
Now if those mushrooms in the THX Amazing Life intro video will play without the terrible noises of my Yamaha, I will be happy.


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## szeh (Aug 6, 2008)

Glad to hear you picked up the STF-2. I've had one for the past two years and love it. Matter of fact I just ordered a second due to the size of my room...about 5,500 square ft. I have one placed in about the same position you mentioned and it really does sound great. Due to the size of my room I have a few dead spots I want to fill in and I know I'm really pushing it, so I figure a second should do teh trick. Also, the folks at HSU were great at helping out with placement.

I'm anxious to get the second hooked up to see how it fill sthe room. I'm also getting a RS SPL meter to try and and check all my settings....which I hope will fine tune the overall sound a little better.

But for your size room the STF-2 will be great...you'll love it!

Scott

Polk RTi8...Mains
Polk FXi3...Rears
Polk CSi3...Center
2-HSU STF2...Subs
Yamaha RX-V663...Receiver 
Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-ray
Samsung 56" HL-S5687W


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

Got my STF-2 today, very nice looking enclosure. 
I hooked it up in the back corner and tried to get it to blend in as best I could by ear. I will need to get the RS SPL meter soon to help get it closer to the proper levels. Apparently I do not listen to it as loud as I thought. For it to shake the floor at what I normally listen to a Blu-Ray disc, the base overpowers the rest of the channels (and they are already pretty loud for my tastes). I lowered the output a bit and it sounds pretty good. Nothing gut wrenching and not enough to shake the floor or walls and get my wife mad, but it is close to being blended with the rest of the system. Overall, it sounds good, and the THX intro sounds a lot better. I had to turn down the level on the sub a bit when those mushrooms kicked in. The THX intro makes it a bit easier to blend in the fronts, surrounds, and sub. you can really tell when then subwoofer frequencies are blended.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> Got my STF-2 today,
> I hooked it up in the back corner and tried to get it to blend in as best I could by ear. I will need to get the RS SPL meter soon to help get it closer to the proper levels...


Congratulation on your new toys :T.

Did you try the YPAO autocalibration feature??? ...you can still get the SPL meter to fine tune everything, but is a good idea to use YPAO to start the set up :yes:.


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

salvasol said:


> Congratulation on your new toys :T.
> 
> Did you try the YPAO autocalibration feature??? ...you can still get the SPL meter to fine tune everything, but is a good idea to use YPAO to start the set up :yes:.


I have a Sony receiver, so no YPAO, but I chose not to use the autocalibration on the receiver because I had issues with it giving me errors. I set everything based on distance and then raise the level by ear. I did go back to the sub and move it to 0 on the level increase and adjusted the level using the amplifier gain. It's sounding pretty good now. I do see that musically, this sub really shines. I threw in Bass Mechanic 5 that I had left over from my car audio days. It sounded very good without a lot of boomy overhang. I need to pop in an action movie soon to see how it sounds. Maybe Jurassic Park III on DVD. Or Star Wars Episode 1-3.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> Maybe Jurassic Park III on DVD. Or Star Wars Episode 1-3.


So, you like the pot race, Right??? :bigsmile:



> I have a Sony receiver, so no YPAO, but I chose not to use the autocalibration on the receiver because I had issues with it giving me errors...


What happened to the 663 you mentioned in your first post??? ..or is that the AVR you're planning to get??? :scratch:

I have the Yamaha RXV 2700, what I always do, is to run YPAO (specially for the PEQ), then I manually correct/adjust any errors (distance, speaker size, crossover, speaker level, etc)...but to fine tune you need the SPL meter.

Enjoy your sub ...if you have a chance and have the movies, watch War of the World, Transformers, U571, Master and Commander to mention a few, they have a lot of bass too....:yes:


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

salvasol said:


> So, you like the pot race, Right??? :bigsmile:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I do not recall mentioning a Yamaha receiver, in any posts. I had a Yamaha subwoofer, which is now removed from the house. I cannot believe that I ever had one of those and considered it a subwoofer. It would be OK for the PC perhaps, but not for HT.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> I do not recall mentioning a Yamaha receiver, in any posts..


My mistake ... that happens when I'm reading more than three threads at the same time :bigsmile:


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

You made me look over it again, you convinced me that I mentioned it!


I have to say that after running the sub for a week, it seems like it gets better and better. The DTS-HD-MA movies are very nice on the bottom end. Even the Dolby Digital on the Dish has some decent low end. I watched Ratatouille on Starz HD last night and was very impressed with this sub. I have it a little bit hot compared to the rest of the setup, but it isn't overbearing. I have some test CDs that include regular music for sound stage testing and the low end is blended almost perfect for those, yet a bit louder from the Blu-Rays and with more rumble.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> I have to say that after running the sub for a week, it seems like it gets better and better...


I've read some post about speaker break-in, some say is a myth and others that is true ...but I read that as the time past the speakers (sub in this case) will sound better and better :yes: ...enjoy it :T


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

salvasol said:


> I've read some post about speaker break-in, some say is a myth and others that is true ...but I read that as the time past the speakers (sub in this case) will sound better and better :yes: ...enjoy it :T



I would almost bet that speaker manufacturers design a driver and break it in _before_ they determine the parameters of the speaker. Then they design the enclosure around the broken in parameters. Then when they mass produce them, they just box them up and ship them out. After you have had it for awhile, the subwoofer gets broken in just like in the design phase. At this point, it would sound like the manufacturer wanted it to sound.

I can remember from my teenage years when I was heavy into car audio, most people would run a test tone for 24hours on a raw unboxed driver to break them in before they would check the T/S parameters. I also remember the reviews said to do the same thing _OR_ just run them at a normal listening level for a week or two to achieve the break-in of the subwoofer.

I think that's why they sound better after a week or two, it's breaking in to where the manufacturer intended it to be.


Doesn't that sound feasible?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

In my opinion there is some truth to it and think the way you describe it is one way to achieve break in. There is a discussion going on about it here.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> I think that's why they sound better after a week or two, it's breaking in to where the manufacturer intended it to be.
> 
> Doesn't that sound feasible?


Yes it does, I read that a subwoofer will sound better after 170-200 hrs of usage (maybe because doesn't play all the time like the speakers) ...


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

That's just about where I am in hours of use. Things are really starting to sound good on the low end. It doesn't overpower the rest of the system, but really cranks when it is called for. Today I had to turn down, of all things, Ratatouille because it was rumbling the floor (wife is sick in the bedroom, so she is extra sensitive to these things today). 
My only problem now is Hsu seems to offer specials every couple of weeks. For $500, I would have purchased the VTF-2 MK 3 and would have been able to crank it up. Not that the STF-2 is any slouch, but the 2.3 has a bigger driver and lower extension. I could have put it in the 25Hz mode like my STF-2 is and had more output!! 
and i still would love to try my hand at a DIY subwoofer--somehting in a 15"-18":bigsmile:


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

redduck21502 said:


> ... i still would love to try my hand at a DIY subwoofer--somehting in a 15"-18":bigsmile:


Don't mention DIY ...look what I did with around  $350  (if you add an amp another $200-300) :whistling:


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

redduck21502 said:


> Well I ordered the Hsu STF-2. Apparently some of the other Hsu prices were special pricing from the weekend, so I didn't go VTF. I was really leaning towards the PB10–NSD because it looked really good on paper, but after reading comparison tests, including one head to head test, I figured that I could save some omoney on the STF-2. The head to head indicated that he could not audibly hear a difference in the extreme low-end as the specs showed. I suppose that if the output is not enough due to the more open section of the house, I can always add a second one later. If I ever decide to dedicate one room for HT that can be closed off, I think this particular subwoofer will be more than enough. They are indicating that it is for up to 3000 cu ft. My basement rooms are only 2500 cu ft, so it would be matched up very well. I plan to place the subwoofer in the back corner near my recliner and sofa so that I hopefully will not need to turn it up too loud to hear the low end.


I am probably...well positively over thinking this. I am in the process of putting together an entry level system. i bought an onkyo 606 receiver. I was so confused with all the different options but it was impossible to ignore all of the great reviews and the 350 price. I then bought Paradigm Atoms for my front right and left speakers (the plan is for them to become my rear speakers eventually), and paradigm cc170 center speaker. Now where i'm really stressing is the sub woofer. i know that spending a bit extra here can really improve my budget cuts earlier but there are so many options and opinions. the guy at the store is trying to sell me a velodyne 3500 at 400 or 3750 at 500. I have read great reviews on 4000 and 5000 but not these models. however, i keep hearing that the SVS and Hsu's are much better. I could probably afford the SVS SB12-plus each or Hsu VTS - mk3 at 700, but i wonder if i really need that much power. the actual screening area is 1300 cu ft, but with dining area it's 2400 plus 300 of the kitchen and a hallway between each area. So, i guess my first question is, should i just ignore the Velodyne Brand and focus on SVS or Hsu? Secondly, do i really need all that power at the extra expense or is the opinion that i can get away with PB10-NSD or STF 2?


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## redduck21502 (Oct 23, 2008)

doctorraoul said:


> I am probably...well positively over thinking this. I am in the process of putting together an entry level system. i bought an onkyo 606 receiver. I was so confused with all the different options but it was impossible to ignore all of the great reviews and the 350 price. I then bought Paradigm Atoms for my front right and left speakers (the plan is for them to become my rear speakers eventually), and paradigm cc170 center speaker. Now where i'm really stressing is the sub woofer. i know that spending a bit extra here can really improve my budget cuts earlier but there are so many options and opinions. the guy at the store is trying to sell me a velodyne 3500 at 400 or 3750 at 500. I have read great reviews on 4000 and 5000 but not these models. however, i keep hearing that the SVS and Hsu's are much better. I could probably afford the SVS SB12-plus each or Hsu VTS - mk3 at 700, but i wonder if i really need that much power. the actual screening area is 1300 cu ft, but with dining area it's 2400 plus 300 of the kitchen and a hallway between each area. So, i guess my first question is, should i just ignore the Velodyne Brand and focus on SVS or Hsu? Secondly, do i really need all that power at the extra expense or is the opinion that i can get away with PB10-NSD or STF 2?



If you can afford the bigger SVS or HSU, then I would go for it. It doesn't hurt to have more subwoofer, you can always turn it down. My situation is similar, and I am pleased. I have the STF-2 nearfield in the back corner. It blends nicely and doesn't overpower the rest of the system. It shakes the floor and walls on certain movies too. The only thing it doesn't do is "pressurize" the room, like everyone talks about. I often wonder if I am misisng anything in that respect. If I crank it on some things, I can feel it in my chest too. I bet the VTF-2 or VTF-3 would really hit the chest hard, though. I listen to a lot of concerts on Paladia and the STF-2 really sounds awesome there. I made some concessions based on price and size, but would have bought the VTF2 if I would have caught the sale around Thanksgiving--it was like 15% off or 10% off. Go with what you can afford to get and you shouldn't be disappointed. The VTS3 should really sound good. Choosing between that and the SVS is a harder choice.


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

I called both SVS and Hsu. The guys at SVS recommended the PB 10 but pushed the PB 12 NSD, but with shipping the PB 12 equals the same amt basically as the SB 12 plus which has free shipping. at 700, it's a bit more than i wanted to spend. The guys at Hsu suggested the VTF-1 which is 449 plus shipping. He said i'll be more than happy with that sub even if I move into a room twice the size. Any final thoughts? PB10NSD or VTF-1 or the upgrade to SB12 PLus? my room is 2700 cu feet. and my front left and right speakers are Paradigm Atoms. Center is CC170. probably upgrading front speakers within two years and using atoms as rears. Thanks.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

doctorraoul said:


> He said i'll be more than happy with that sub even if I move into a room twice the size. Any final thoughts? PB10NSD or VTF-1 or the upgrade to SB12 PLus? my room is 2700 cu feet...


Looking at the specifications online, VTF-1 is similar to PB10 and I think PB10 is better (300 watts amp, and response to 20Hz instead of 32Hz); so SB12 plus is in another league.

If you have the money (or can strech your budget, get the SB12+) ...my room is small 1296sqft and I was using two subs (VRP1000 and TSS750, 150 watts amp and response to 35Hz), I think is better to have a bigger sub instead of getting one that will work hard to fill the space with bass ...that's my $0.02 :yes:


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

Can definitely afford it if it will make me happier, but if it's superfluous I don't want to waste money. Also, will it make my condo neighbors want to kill me?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

doctorraoul said:


> Also, will it make my condo neighbors want to kill me?


Definetelly :bigsmile: ...in that case get PB10 or VTF1 (in my opinion PB10) :whistling:


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

!


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

my bad. Since, i'll be using mostly for movies, what do you think about getting the PC12-NSD which the salesman also recommended? would that be better than pb10 but also drive my neighbors nuts?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

doctorraoul said:


> Since, i'll be using mostly for movies, what do you think about getting the PC12-NSD which the salesman also recommended? would that be better than pb10 but also drive my neighbors nuts?


I think that either sub (VTF1, PB10, PC12 or PB12+) will drive them nuts if you play it to hard.

The good thing about having a sub that is powerful is that it won't have to work to hard to fill the room with bass, if you get the VTF1 or PB10 you'll probably make it work harder than if you use any 12".

You said that you can get the PB12+ for almost the same price of the PC12 ...in that case I'll go with the PB12+, it has a 425watts amp and a lower output than the PC12 :yes:


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## doctorraoul (Jan 6, 2009)

I think i messed up. I can get sb12 plus for 700, free shipping. PB12 NSD is 600 plus about 80 in shipping. So those are same equal. Obviouslyl would go for SB12 plus instead. PC12 would be a bit cheaper than both by about 80. it runs at 550 plus 70 for shipping. are the cylinders not better for movies? sorry, i'm a total rookie.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

doctorraoul said:


> I think i messed up. I can get sb12 plus for 700, free shipping. PB12 NSD is 600 plus about 80 in shipping. So those are same equal. Obviouslyl would go for SB12 plus instead. PC12 would be a bit cheaper than both by about 80. it runs at 550 plus 70 for shipping. are the cylinders not better for movies? sorry, i'm a total rookie.


Cylinder or box they perform the same, the advantage is that cylinder is easy to place because of the small footprint (I just build one 71" tall and diameter is 18", bigger than the PC12) ...I'm sure you'll be happy with any of them :yes:.

In case that you want to see my sub ..here is the picture 


*Spoiler*


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## fibreKid (Apr 20, 2006)

I have no idea if you would be interested, but you might be able to pick up a HSU VTF3-MKII used for a real good price. They perform quite well.

-john


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