# Audio Advantage SRM & Vista -- Calibration



## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

I have the Audio Advantage SRM soundcard that Brucek reviewed a few weeks ago, running on an i-Mac with Vista in Boot Camp. I also have the Galaxy CM-140 spl/mic.

So, after installing the soundcard driver from the webpage, and insuring the control panel looks just like the screen shots Brucek posted in his review, I can't seem to get it calibrated! 

My levels aren't high enough--only rising to a pegged-out -37db!

So, here's Brucek's response to my initial questions about this from a PM:

Phil,

I'm a bit confused by this statement:
When I go to "measure" and try to get the levels to match up, my Output is very high, while my L and R channels remain very low (in fact, I can only see my L increase when I peg my AA SRM levels as high as possible and it only goes into the 30's dbs). .

You have the Right channel looped back and the Left unhooked, how could you see the Left line-in move at all ? - it should not. 
You're attempting to calibrate the Right Channel and so it should be the only channel to show any level. 
Hopefully you don't have the "Use Left Channel as Calibrate" checkbox in REW checked. It is left unchecked and unused.

The monitor is shut off by disabling line-in in the playback devices level control tab. Be sure the volume is at zero and the speaker icon is red by clicking it off. The same goes for the microphone-in.
_____

So, I've made sure that I have the soundcard's R of the output connected to the R of the input (via the 3.5mm stereo jacks split into dual RCA adapter). Other than the USB powercord, that's all the cabling, right?

When I run REW and go to the Settings for the Soundard to calibrate it, I can't get the levels to move when I "measure." 

I'm manipulating the volume via the Audio Advantage soundcard's control panel (as I've selected the soundcard's "speakers" for the output and the "soundcards "line in" for the input. 

I don't have the "left channel as calibration reference" selected either.

When I go to measure, in the page before I actually "measure" I can see the "left" channel dancing slightly around the -41.7 db level (in blue) and nothing in the "right" side, and the "output" is greyed-out. 

When I hit "next" the output is up at -12 db and the LEFT is still in the -40's, but only increased into the -30's when I use the mixer "recording level" slider in the AA control panel (if I slide the "master" in the mixer control panel it doesn't do anything). Only when I drop the "recording level" down to almost 0 does the "RIGHT" channel begin the rise--but only to 42.7 db. When I go ahead and try to get a measurement, it runs the test and says that my levels only reached -41.6 db...

I'm stuck!

Thanks for the help,
Phil

BTW, I'd love to post the pics of these windows, but don't know how to grab a screen shot--any help there?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I'd love to post the pics of these windows, but don't know how to grab a screen shot


Click the mouse cursor in the screen you want to capture and press Alt and PrtScr keys. This captures that active screen to the clipboard. Then use any graphics program to Paste the clipboard data and then manipulate the size to 800 wide (or less) and save as jpg. Paint or Photoshop etc.... Tell me if you have any trouble with that and I can explain further. 

I'd like to see your REW Settings page if possible.

This is beginning to sound like another of our many Mac problems (that really only John can solve - if at all).

Forgetting about REW for a minute, are you able to simply hook the analog line-out to your receiver and play sound?

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Yes, I can hear music and sounds through the card--so that's good, right?!

I'll work on capturing the screen-shots when I get home tonight to show you each menu and my settings, etc. 

Thanks much,
Phil


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

OK, I've switched to a PC (Dell Latitude D620) to see if we're having a Mac problem, but I have the same calibration/loop-back issue as before!

So, that's good news on one hand (the iMac may still be usable).

Here's the screenshots of the measurement page and the soundcard's speakers settings and mixer settings. 

























BTW, I do have the card hooked up via the USB, and I have the stereo 3.5mm input and output jacks with RCA R/L adapters hooked up via the R channels only. There's nothing hooking up the L channel.

I'm sure it is something stupid on my end and hope you'll be able to put me out of my self-created REW misery!

Thanks,
Phil


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

BTW, I did this as "default" and as "speakers" and "line in" settings in the REW settings for input/output. Either way, I have this problem...


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

A couple of things....

Your Speakers Tab of the mixer shows a green light on Speaker Equalization, which means on the Equalizer tab you have it enabled. You want to go to that tab and press the enable button again to disable the equalizer (be sure the light goes out).

Also be sure no features are enabled on the Effects tab screen. Shut them all off.

Also on the Mixer tab, be sure to pull the volume sliders to zero for microphone and line-in for playback.

I see you have the Default selected on the REW tab for Output and Input device. Are you indeed able to pull that down and select the card itself? You should be able to (see my Vista soundcard thread on that for a picture). I'm concerned that Default setting may be selecting the on-board card instead of the SRM input.

Other than that it makes no sense at all. In fact I have to say my Input is a bit too sensitive for my liking. I can hardly get the volume slider off zero and its half way up full.....

Do you indeed see the driver in the Device Manager? Here's a Vista picture of it, but XP would be close to this... I show the properties tab too..









Also note that the Universal Serial Bus Controllers listing in the Device manager will show a _Composite device_ in the USB port it's connected to..

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

So, I've fixed the EQ and the line levels are zero'ed out. And I've made sure I can (and have) selected the AA card for input and output as you can see here:








I think I've found a problem! I discovered something when I toggled between the 44.1 and 48kHz sample rates (just trying anything) and up came this message:








So, does that help? 

BTW, I did go to the device manager and can see and select the AA card, I also checked the USB port and it does say composite device...

I really appreciate the help,
Phil


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Clearly have a problem as I decided to just try the measuring for calibration again for the **** of it.

This message popped up:


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

More screenshots to help you help me!

I'm just cursed with REW, I tell you...









BTW, I restarted my computer (the Dell laptop) and I can now switch between the sampling rates without the device error problem... Must have lost the card's connections when the laptop went into power-save yesterday.

I don't understand how this isn't working! Something is wrong, clearly, between two different laptops (iMac and Dell), I get the same thing--levels too low and nothing from the R channel which is the only one hooked up! 

Volumes are pegged...

HELP!


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I don't understand how this isn't working!


Yeah, this is a tough one. I know with my system, there was no messing around at all with this card. Click, and it was working. So, something is quite wacky here. I hesitate to ask if you feel that your cables are fine that you're using (easy enough to check by testing them. You said the output was working, so maybe swap the input set with the output to be sure that the splitter is good.... and also check the loopback cable).

Can you generate a Debug file for the card and post it here? Maybe we can get an idea about what's happening with the outputs and inputs.
Start REW and go to the Settings page and Soundcard tab. Press the Generate Debug File and save it to the desktop. Then attach the file or the text to your post.

brucek


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Do you see any input level showing on the meters in the record settings section of the SRM's own mixer panel? Which input connector are you using on the SRM?


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Hey John and Brucek,

Here's a pic of my SRM's meters for the line in: (I have wondered why they aren't lit, when Brucek's are in his review pics)









As per my connections: 

I'm using the 3.5mm "Out (7/8)" with a headphone symbol and the 3.5mm "Stereo Mic In" (both of which are on the same end of the SRM card--it is also the one with the "out 5.1" (looks like an S-video port). 

I am using the Radio Shack 3.5mm stereo to R/L RCA adapters suggested in the REW help files, and I'm using a gold-ended 3' standard RCA cable. 

The SRM is connected to the Dell pc laptop via the USB and I can manipulate the volume with the rocker dial on the SRM which shows a volume screen on the laptop. 

I really appreciate the help--I'm really excited and anxious to get measuring with this amazing tool!

Thanks,
Phil


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

OK, here's the Debug file--I apologize for its length!

SoundCard Debug Data generated by Room EQ Wizard V4.11
Dated: Jun 3, 2008 8:51:37 PM
Input Device: Line In (Audio Advantage SRM Device)
Input: No input selected
Input Volume: no control
Output Device: Speakers (Audio Advantage SRM Device)
Output: No output selected
Output Volume: No control
Output Mute: Off
Wave Volume: No control
Wave Mute: Off

0: Primary Sound Driver, Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Playback
Line interface SourceDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

Controls[0]: FloatControl: Master Gain with current value: 0.0 dB (range: -80.0 - 6.0206)
Controls[1]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: False
Controls[2]: FloatControl: Balance with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: FloatControl: Pan with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)


Line interface Clip supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

[no controls]



1: Speakers (Audio Advantage SRM Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Playback
Line interface SourceDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

Controls[0]: FloatControl: Master Gain with current value: 0.0 dB (range: -80.0 - 6.0206)
Controls[1]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: False
Controls[2]: FloatControl: Balance with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: FloatControl: Pan with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)


Line interface Clip supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

[no controls]



2: Digital Output (Audio Advantage SRM Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Playback
Line interface SourceDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

Controls[0]: FloatControl: Master Gain with current value: 0.0 dB (range: -80.0 - 6.0206)
Controls[1]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: False
Controls[2]: FloatControl: Balance with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: FloatControl: Pan with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)


Line interface Clip supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

[no controls]



3: Speakers (High Definition Audio Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Playback
Line interface SourceDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

Controls[0]: FloatControl: Master Gain with current value: 0.0 dB (range: -80.0 - 6.0206)
Controls[1]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: False
Controls[2]: FloatControl: Balance with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: FloatControl: Pan with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)


Line interface Clip supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

[no controls]



4: Primary Sound Capture Driver, Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Capture
Line interface TargetDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

[no controls]



5: Line In (Audio Advantage SRM Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Capture
Line interface TargetDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

LineUnavailableException when trying to open this line
[no controls]



6: Microphone (High Definition Audio Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Capture
Line interface TargetDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

[no controls]



7: Microphone (Audio Advantage SRM Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Capture
Line interface TargetDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

LineUnavailableException when trying to open this line
[no controls]



8: Line In (High Definition Audio Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Capture
Line interface TargetDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

[no controls]



9: SPDIF In (Audio Advantage SRM Device), Unknown Vendor, Unknown Version, Direct Audio Device: DirectSound Capture
Line interface TargetDataLine supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of at least 32 bytes (max. -1 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
4: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)

LineUnavailableException when trying to open this line
[no controls]



10: Java Sound Audio Engine, Sun Microsystems, 1.0, Software mixer and synthesizer
Line interface SourceDataLine supporting 8 audio formats (max. 32 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
4: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)

Controls[0]: FloatControl: Master Gain with current value: 0.0 dB (range: -80.0 - 13.9794)
Controls[1]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: False
Controls[2]: FloatControl: Pan with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: FloatControl: Sample Rate with current value: 44100.0 FPS (range: 0.0 - 48000.0)


Line interface Clip supporting 8 audio formats, and buffers of 0 to 4194304 bytes (max. 32 simultaneously): 
0: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
1: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, mono, 1 bytes/frame, (1 channels, frameSize=1, little endian)
2: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
3: PCM_UNSIGNED unknown sample rate, 8 bit, stereo, 2 bytes/frame, (2 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
4: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, big-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, big endian)
5: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, mono, 2 bytes/frame, little-endian (1 channels, frameSize=2, little endian)
6: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, big-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, big endian)
7: PCM_SIGNED unknown sample rate, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian (2 channels, frameSize=4, little endian)

Controls[0]: FloatControl: Master Gain with current value: 0.0 dB (range: -80.0 - 13.9794)
Controls[1]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: False
Controls[2]: FloatControl: Pan with current value: 0.0 (range: -1.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: FloatControl: Sample Rate with current value: 44100.0 FPS (range: 0.0 - 48000.0)



11: Port Speakers (Audio Advantage SRM D, Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port SPEAKER target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: CD Audio Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)



12: Port Digital Output (Audio Advantage, Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port Master Volume target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: CD Audio Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)



13: Port Speakers (High Definition Audio, Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port SPEAKER target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: CD Audio Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[3]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)



14: Port Microphone (High Definition Aud, Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port MICROPHONE source port
Controls[0]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.24165712 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)


Port Master Volume target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.24165712 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.24165712 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)



15: Port Microphone (Audio Advantage SRM, Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port MICROPHONE source port
Controls[0]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)


Port Master Volume target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)



16: Port Line In (High Definition Audio , Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port LINE_IN source port
Controls[0]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.24165712 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)


Port Master Volume target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.24165712 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 0.24165712 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)



17: Port SPDIF In (Audio Advantage SRM D, Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port Master Volume source port
Controls[0]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)


Port Master Volume target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)



18: Port Line In (Audio Advantage SRM De, Unknown Vendor, 6.0, Port Mixer
Port LINE_IN source port
Controls[0]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)


Port Master Volume target port
Controls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
Controls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)
Controls[2]: CompoundControl: Master Volume Control containing Mute, and Volume Controls.
MemberControls[0]: BooleanControl: Mute Control with current value: false
MemberControls[1]: FloatControl: Volume with current value: 1.0 (range: 0.0 - 1.0)


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Phil, use the connectors on the other end (where the USB connector plugs in).


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

JohnM said:


> Phil, use the connectors on the other end (where the USB connector plugs in).


"My don't I feel silly..." 

Words cannot describe how stupid I feel!!! I switched the cables to the other side as you said, and it works!

Here's the graph:









BTW, what do I need to do for this to clean up on the high frequency end? 

What I don't understand is that the "other" input/outputs are labeled "SPDIF" and I thought they were just the digital ones. 

Any help with that so I don't make similar mistakes in the future?!

BTW, I will happily begin a new file (or keep this one) for future Vista/SRM REW travelers... 

When I get home I'm going to go measuring bonkers! I've been sitting on my new equipment for several weeks (see my signature) and I'm ready with my carpenter buddy to build a proscenium and get my acoustic treatments in. I have a roll of JM Linacoustic and about 30 panels of spinglass (3" rigid) and mineral wool (3" rigid) in the garage ready to be used! 

Can't thank you guys enough, John and Brucek!


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I'm using the 3.5mm "Out (7/8)" with a headphone symbol and the 3.5mm "Stereo Mic In"


Oh my, oh my, I wish you had said this before.... I just came back in the house and saw this..... I see John caught it before I returned. That's good............ I just assumed you were using the line-in and out.... oh well...... (look at the picture of my line cables in my review).



> what do I need to do for this to clean up on the high frequency end?


yeah, play with the output level a bit when you take the soundcard cal measurement. Usually about -6dB to -9dB works best, but adjust until you get a good chart and file....



> What I don't understand is that the "other" input/outputs are labeled "SPDIF" and I thought they were just the digital ones


I think if you look close you'll see it says Line/SPDIF, which is a dual purpose jack. That's what the two adapters are for that you have in the box. Plug them in and it changes to accept an optical cable for digital. If you set the port to digital, you plug in the adapter and an optical cable. Set it to analog and it's a line jack when you remove the adapter that accepts 3.5mm stereo plugs.

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

OK, that makes better sense to me now--I'm sorry I missed that in your pics! I just went back to see where your cables were and sure enough--they are coming out of the USB side! I think I saw that before, but assumed that it was just your SPDIF/optical--since there isn't the RCA splitter on it--though I can see that you labeled it main speakers. I can now understand what the 7/8 is for on the other side. Shoot, I hate making such a dumb mistake, but I never work with outboard soundcards, etc. and so I guess I've got a steep learning curve ahead!

So, as per the calibration graph I don't seem to get much of a difference between using -12, -10, -8, or -6?

How do I get mine to look like yours & what's that other line the jags down in the middle of the FR graph?

Here's -12:









Here's -10:









Here's -8:









and here's -6: 









This is getting close!raying:


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

In the meantime, here's my graph from the "check calibration" step:









How's that look?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> How do I get mine to look like yours & what's that other line the jags down in the middle of the FR graph?


That jaggy line is the meter calibration file (which we don't usually load until the soundcard calibration is all finished). It looks funny because of the very exaggerated vertical scale axis that the graph uses. Note that it is minus three to plus three (only 6dB full scale). When we are doing measurements the vertical scale should be set to 45dB-105dB. That's a 60dB swing.

So, you can see the soundcard response is fairly good, only down less than a dB by 10Hz.

You're getting a small amount of oscillation at the higher frequencies that can be caused during the soundcard cal test from the input or output level not being correct or perhaps some fairly capacitive cables etc. Play with it a bit, or if your doing sub only measures, use it the way it is...  In fact, it looks so close to my file, I could just give you mine and it would be fine. You can see that mine wants to oscillate at the higher frequencies also... not uncommon when this test is done on any card.

Anyway, remember when you post any graph other than the soundcard cal, the vertical scale is set to 45dB-105dB and horizontal scale is 15Hz-200Hz for subs and whatever top range for full range.



> here's my graph from the "check calibration" step


I don't understand what you mean by this.. what is the graph of?

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Here's the same using -6 input setting:









Is this right? I'm trying to follow all the instructions--I hate being high-maintenance...

Thanks again,

Phil


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Oh, I see what it is...................

This is the measure of a loopback cable to check the soundcard cal file?

You must clear the meter cal file, and set the target level etc to 75dB

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Very cool then! :jiggy:

If you don't mind, just send me your file if you think that will work well.

Much thanks man!


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Yes, that's the check of the loopback. 

I did clear the calibration file and I think the level is at 75db (how do I check?).

The -6 one looked pretty good, didn't it? 

So, how can I get your file--I'm assuming that it will be easy to load by browsing my saved location...

BTW, I do plan on using this mainly for sub calibration, but do want to use the full spectrum as possible!

Thanks so much man,
Phil


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Just click and save and then remove the bogus .mdat extension that I used to bypass the .cal file site restrictions. (i.e. rename it to AudioAdvantageSRM.cal)

View attachment AudioAdvantageSRM.cal.mdat


brucek


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I'm assuming that it will be easy to load by browsing my saved location...


Yep..........



> I did clear the calibration file and I think the level is at 75db (how do I check?).


Just go through the standard setup routine.
Check Levels routine, and then Calibrate SPL level routine (to 75dB) and then Measure from 0-~15K..........

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

OK, I've downloaded the .cal file and have checked levels, and calibrated the SPL meter. 

I had trouble with the levels--there was clipping detected. I tried to follow the instructions about getting the spl meter to read 75db, but that seemed to take a lot of volume from my AVR/speakers. Any idea why that would be? 

Anyway, I ended up dumping the AVR volume down to -22 (Onkyo 875 as pre/pro) and the sweep level down to -24 to get it not to have clipping...

Here's my first graph!!! I feel like a new father :whew:









I used the 1/3 octave smoothing to even out the jaggies... 

Here's the 10-200hz measurement (no smoothing):









Does this look about right?!

Big, big thanks!


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Ok, so now I've got the sweep level at -17 and here's my graph using the 40hz x-over in my Onkyo 875. 








Now here's my 80hz x-over:









Clearly have a better line with the lower x-over! 

Is there anything I can/should do to help my 20hz levels? 

Also, should I try to use the PEQ on my SVS Ultra to take the boost at 38hz or at 75hz down, or neither?

Thanks so much for the help--this is getting to be fun finally!


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Wow, I found that these earlier graphs may or may not have had the sub engaged (the levels weren't kicking the sub on in its "auto" setting. I went over to adjust the volume, etc. and saw dreaded red light! No wonder the lower x-over graphed better!

So, I turned it "on" and did the following measurement with my Dali's at only 3" from the front wall and x-over at 40hz (where I'm hoping to incorporate them into my proscenium--against all conventional speaker placement wisdom)...









How's it look? 

What can I do with the Ultra PEQ, BFD (I own one), and or other treatments to improve?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Looks good. :T

A few points.

Don't lower the sweep level of the REW PC to get the 75dB level correct during calibration. Leave the sweep level at -12dB, and adjust the volume on the Onkyo receiver. Once the level is at 75dB at the listening position, then set the Input level. The Measure routine may clip, even though you have the input level correct because of peaks in the response that the pink calibration signal didn't reveal.

Myself, I have a large peak in my response. When I do a raw non-equalized measure, I always need to have the input level a bit low or I get _levels too high_ warning in the measure. Once I've lowered that peak with EQ, all is fine and I get no warning...... If you consistently get levels to high warning, take a look at the Scope Tab in REW after a measure and it shows the output waveform from the soundcard and overlayed with the input waveform. Quite handy to see if the peak is a single spike or across the spectrum....

hehe, yeah, now that the sub is turned on it looks better. I was about to give you the bad news about a very challenged sub, which didn't make sense because you have a pb13-Ultra. Looks fine now though.

Your response is quite good. I would not introduce a BFD. No need and it just adds digitization and dynamic range limitations into the chain.

I believe the Ultra has a certain degree of EQ capability and I would use that if needed.

Normally, the routine is that you measure the sub first at the listening position without the mains, and find its best spot and add EQ if needed to end with a smooth response graph. (the mains are simply unplugged (with the power off of course) and a sweep taken of the sub using the crossover you prefer. (40Hz is really low. I would go with 60-80Hz).

Then you add the mains and perform the exact same sweep from 0-200Hz and see how they integrate with the sub. Now you can adjust the sub level and its phase control to get the smoothest transition at the crossover area and readjust the EQ a bit if needed.

BTW, be sure the receiver is in stereo mode with all effects and soundfields off for these test with REW. You only want sub or sub + mains playing. Some people use a Y-splitter before they plug the REW into the AUX or CD input of the receiver so both mains play at the same time.

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Excellent and helpful response Brucek! Thanks for walking me through this!!!! :clap:

I'm thrilled not to have to incorporate the BFD for all the reasons you mention, plus then I can sell it and put the little $$ toward my JVD RS-1!

So, I'll turn down the input level (in the SRM's control, right? I'm just going to pull the input sliders down on the soundcard), and return the sweep level to -12db. Hopefully that will not make the levels too high as you say. 

Does your sub have it's own PEQ to tame your peak? 

I have my pb13 Ultra in 20hz mode without any PEQ or room equalization on yet. 

I know that a higher x-over point is usually preferred, so I'll do some more measuring tonight with the Ultra "on." For some reason it wasn't kicking on when in "auto" mode with the REW "check levels" and "sweeps."

If I understand correctly, you suggest that I measure the sub alone at my LP to find the optimum placement/phase/PEQ with the main speakers defeated. You suggest 80hz, which is fine, since the Ultra is supposed to be very fast, but do I still run the sweep up to 200hz? I have the Ultra's own x-over off. 

Thanks for the help--this is really exciting to run tests and really see what I'm hearing. 

BTW, I tested my mains FR when just 3" off the wall vs. 12" and saw pretty much no difference in response. That goes against conventional wisdom, especially with rear-ported speakers. :dontknow: Any insights? I do have 8' of distance to my side wall on one side and 10' on the other...

Thanks again,
Phil


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> So, I'll turn down the input level (in the SRM's control, right? I'm just going to pull the input sliders down on the soundcard), and return the sweep level to -12db


Yeah, the input level would be adjusted with the SRM input slider (although if you're using XP and you have the Control Input Mixer box checked, you can simply use the REW thumbwheel to change Input Level, and the SRM slider will track along). 

But I would certainly go through the routine in the standard fashion with the Check Levels routine and have the output sweep set to -12db, then adjust the receiver volume to get your 75dB at the listening position, and then run the REW Calibrate SPL routine to match REW's meter to the real world, and then set the Input level to below clipping. If you run the measure and it clips, just turn down the input level until it doesn't do that.



> Does your sub have it's own PEQ to tame your peak?


No, it's a Servo-15 without any control. I have to use a BFD..



> If I understand correctly, you suggest that I measure the sub alone at my LP to find the optimum placement/phase/PEQ with the main speakers defeated.


Yes to all except for the phase. Phase has no effect when you listen to a single speaker. Phase affects interaction between two speakers. Adjusting phase on a single speaker is like clapping with one hand.... nothing happens. Once you add the mains back, then you adjust the phase and watch the interaction at the crossover area for smoothest transition.



> You suggest 80hz, which is fine, since the Ultra is supposed to be very fast, but do I still run the sweep up to 200hz? I have the Ultra's own x-over off.


Yeah, when you add the mains, change nothing, except go through the Check setup etc. again, because the addition of the mains will change your levels. Keep the subwoofer test signal as before and sweep from 0-200Hz as before.



> BTW, I tested my mains FR when just 3" off the wall vs. 12" and saw pretty much no difference in response. That goes against conventional wisdom, especially with rear-ported speakers. Any insights?


Yeah, audio never seems to follow the rules. That's why it's nice to have a tool like REW to get a better look at results when you change something.

brucek


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

Sweet! 

Following your instructions, I've created the following graphs for my pb13 Ultra. 

I placed it along the back wall at the 1/3 position for the first three measurements (I did a total of 3 measurements per) with the three main "tuning" points 20hz, 15hz, and then 10hz. 

Then I moved the sub to 3' to a small corner further in the room corner and did the same three measures per tuning frequency. 

20hz at 1/3 wall:








15hz at 1/3 wall:








10hz at 1/3 wall:








20hz at "corner":








15hz at "corner":








10hz at "corner":








What an amazing tool REW is!!! I can really "see" what I'm hearing. It is very cool to see SVS tuning technology really works, too!

So, which of these is preferrable?!

Thanks big time...


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

The 15Hz tune is definitely the best tune, and I would think the 1/3 wall placement is giving the best overall response. 

I suppose next you can try and tame that ~38Hz peak with the PEQ of the sub.......

I also want to note that a much better method of comparing is to use the Measured tab in REW. This allows you to selectively overlay any measures you take..

brucek


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## acoustat6 (Mar 7, 2008)

Hello, Allredp said, "What an amazing tool REW is!!! I can really "see" what I'm hearing."

Hear, hear, I will drink to that!

Without a doubt a revelation when you first see/hear this. Before REW I would adjust a few knobs or move the speakers etc and say to self, well that sounds better but it also sounds worse at the same time! How could that be? It was that moving speakers sometime you are just shifting freq responses or improving a dip in one spot but making a peak worse in another. Or adjusting the "knobs" for one record to sound good and the next is all wrong. Never knowing though what was really going on. Whats even worse is not knowing that peaks and nulls and extended decay times (aka the room) really is killing your sound from your multi thousand dollar system! That new cables or a piece of maple under your preamp is not going to improve anything at least not until you get the room/response under control. I think it would take a real Wizard to do what REW does for the "average" person. 

What I will/have been doing is playing with the REW for the first 1/2 to 1 hour or so while my system warms up moving speakers etc and if not finding any improvement in REW or sound going back to my last setup. I am sure that at some point I will find a real sweetspot or two and be happy for the rest of my audiophile life! :yay::T


Bob


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## allredp (Feb 7, 2007)

acoustat6 said:


> Hello, Allredp said, "What an amazing tool REW is!!! I can really "see" what I'm hearing."
> 
> Hear, hear, I will drink to that!
> 
> ...


Hey Bob,

Excellent remarks! I loved the "maple under the preamp" example :clap:...

Brucek, I'm learning through your tutelage as you can see by the graph below! I'm keeping the 15hz tune and will probably have to bump up the output to offset the SPL loss (how much usually btw?)

I'm currently storing up some more REW time (WAF limited) doing house-stuff and other honey-do's in preparation for my next REW session. Happily I was able to install my ceiling-mounted Ikon Phantoms (had to change a can light around, etc., but things are looking/sounding great in surround now). To which she said, "wow, that's a lot better looking--why did you resist doing that so long!" ... 

I've done some more placement testing, but haven't tried to PEQ my peak at 38hz yet. 

In the meantime, what do you think about the difference between my rear 1/3 position (purple) and front corner (green) positions--which is superior? 









I'd really rather have the sub behind and hidden due to aesthetics and a closet door, but can use that front corner if it is truly superior. 

Thanks for the feedback and the help--the Shack rocks!

Phil


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

The corner does appear to provide some low end gain, although a bit peaky at ~16Hz. That would offer more room shaking rather than sound (good for movies). Before I moved it, I might take a few reading around the listening area to see if the advantage held true for other seats.

brucek


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## HionHiFi (Feb 18, 2007)

allredp said:


> Hey Bob,
> 
> Excellent remarks! I loved the "maple under the preamp" example :clap:...
> 
> ...


Which one sounds better to you? Graphs are great, but they are only half the story, or 3/4 the story, or 1/4 the story. YMMV. At any rate, you need to take into consideration, the actual sound. How does it sound to you in each location. For movies, and music if they are both on your list of entertainment. 

You could BFD any anomalies you find with the rear position, or the front corner, if you feel that position is better suited for your living space.This is the great power of simple tools such as REW and the BFD. Flexibility.


----------

