# Atmos + Bi-Amp and 9 speakers



## Mindreign (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi,

Complete novice here, and know just enough to be dangerous.

Looking for a receiver that will do the following, and i'm having difficulty wading through the sea of receivers with multi-zones that I don't need.

I basically want a 7.2.2 setup (I think). To me, that means 
Left Front
Sub
Center
Sub
Right Front
Left Side
Right Side
Ceiling
Left Rear
Right Rear
Ceiling

7 Surround Speakers
2 Subs
2 Atmos ceiling speakers

I would also like to bi-amp my Front Left/Right Towers to power the mids and highs separately. 

Is there a single receiver that will accomplish this? Is my configuration demanding a 9.2.2 or 11.2.2?

The receivers I see that are 11.2.4 or 11.2.2 have 2 of those channels dedicated to a lower powered second zone. 

Hopefully this is an easy question/answer. Thanks in advance!


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

I will be the first of many to say this. DO NOT waste your time Bi-amping the speakers. Your single power supply is going to be maxed out running all those speakers so all you will end up with is wasted money on speaker cables. Bi-amping with one power supply is like running with 4 25lb weights instead of 2 50lb weights. If you have another runner (power supply) sharing the 25lb weight you _may_ gain something.

From what I have read most Atmos setups are 5.1.4 or 7.1.2.


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## Mindreign (Oct 16, 2012)

Blacklightning said:


> I will be the first of many to say this. DO NOT waste your time Bi-amping the speakers. Your single power supply is going to be maxed out running all those speakers so all you will end up with is wasted money on speaker cables. Bi-amping with one power supply is like running with 4 25lb weights instead of 2 50lb weights. If you have another runner (power supply) sharing the 25lb weight you _may_ gain something.
> 
> From what I have read most Atmos setups are 5.1.4 or 7.1.2.


I see, so if the receiver states it will output 135W per channel (maybe 75W in reality), and I run two lines to the speaker, I will not get two 75W lines, but two 37ish Lines?

I thought the point of a bi-ampable speaker was to drive components within it independently? (assuming you remove the bridge)

Thanks again for the help.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

If you want to bi-amp... I would get a minidsp, and additional amps for the 3 center channels. I use 3 inexpensive T chip amps for my horns, and then 2 pro amps for the bass bins. In my situation of a DIY setup I really had no other choice for a crossover since the minidsp is easier to make changes to while dialing in the settings. I am a complete Novice in crossover design, and am very thankful to members in the REW thread for helping me dial in my setup. Was it worth it? IMO, it was as my setup sounds great now. Your experience may vary if you are dealing with Consumer purchased speakers with built in crossovers, as you need to remove the crossovers you have, and it may never sound as good or better than what you have now. :T


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Mindreign said:


> I see, so if the receiver states it will output 135W per channel (maybe 75W in reality), and I run two lines to the speaker, I will not get two 75W lines, but two 37ish Lines?
> 
> I thought the point of a bi-ampable speaker was to drive components within it independently? (assuming you remove the bridge)
> 
> Thanks again for the help.


Watts do not really drop in half. You need to look at an AVR as a system. You do have 7 or 9 amps in one unit and if you turn one amp on and power it up you get 135W of power. Now turn on another amp and you will get 135W to 125W per channel (guessing). Now turn on 3 more amps and your power supply is maxed out so the Watts drop fast. Your power supply Max Wattage in on the back of most units and it will range from 400W to 1400Watts. Your power supply cannot use more power then this.

The whole point of Bi-amp is to run two separate amps with external crossovers to speakers with no or disabled crossovers.

Then marketing took over and you now see people that Bi-amp speakers with separate amps to speakers with crossovers. This also does not gain much. And the final step to sell more 9.1 AVR's was to say that you could Bi-amp with a single AVR and this is a waste of time. (I fell for this one)


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## Mindreign (Oct 16, 2012)

Blacklightning said:


> Watts do not really drop in half. You need to look at an AVR as a system. You do have 7 or 9 amps in one unit and if you turn one amp on and power it up you get 135W of power. Now turn on another amp and you will get 135W to 125W per channel (guessing). Now turn on 3 more amps and your power supply is maxed out so the Watts drop fast. Your power supply Max Wattage in on the back of most units and it will range from 400W to 1400Watts. Your power supply cannot use more power then this.
> 
> The whole point of Bi-amp is to run two separate amps with external crossovers to speakers with no or disabled crossovers.
> 
> Then marketing took over and you now see people that Bi-amp speakers with separate amps to speakers with crossovers. This also does not gain much. And the final step to sell more 9.1 AVR's was to say that you could Bi-amp with a single AVR and this is a waste of time. (I fell for this one)


So if I were to use an Active Crossover (I'm reading about bi-amping) as opposed trying it the Passive way, then I'd be better off? Can you use an Active Crossover and an AVC? Or at that point do you have to separate out your components?


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## Mindreign (Oct 16, 2012)

ellisr63 said:


> If you want to bi-amp... I would get a minidsp, and additional amps for the 3 center channels. I use 3 inexpensive T chip amps for my horns, and then 2 pro amps for the bass bins. In my situation of a DIY setup I really had no other choice for a crossover since the minidsp is easier to make changes to while dialing in the settings. I am a complete Novice in crossover design, and am very thankful to members in the REW thread for helping me dial in my setup. Was it worth it? IMO, it was as my setup sounds great now. Your experience may vary if you are dealing with Consumer purchased speakers with built in crossovers, as you need to remove the crossovers you have, and it may never sound as good or better than what you have now. :T


I'm reading about minidsp now. Thanks


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Mindreign said:


> Hi,
> 
> Complete novice here, and know just enough to be dangerous.





ellisr63 said:


> If you want to bi-amp... I would get a minidsp, and additional amps for the 3 center channels. I use 3 inexpensive T chip amps for my horns, and then 2 pro amps for the bass bins. In my situation of a DIY setup I really had no other choice for a crossover since the minidsp is easier to make changes to while dialing in the settings. I am a complete Novice in crossover design, and am very thankful to members in the REW thread for helping me dial in my setup. Was it worth it? IMO, it was as my setup sounds great now. Your experience may vary if you are dealing with Consumer purchased speakers with built in crossovers, as you need to remove the crossovers you have, and it may never sound as good or better than what you have now. :T


 Do not Bi-amp!!! 

I'm not a novice and I would never cut open my speakers to try and Bi-amp correctly and mess with crossovers etc. Audio Engineers will do a better job and they have testing equipment. I have some testing equipment but no acoustical chamber for speaker testing. Bi-amping (correctly) for 99% of most guys is a waste of time and you will end up with something worse. Bi-amping the incorrect way is great for receivers because it does NOTHING (good or bad) but most will think they hear a difference so it works. 

Spend your time getting your setup correct and work on the room.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Bi amping gains you nothing audibly. In reality your speakers highs only need 10-15watts max or you will blow the tweeters. All the power goes to the low end and taking that 10watts off of an amp is meaningless. I would spend your money elsewhere.


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## Mindreign (Oct 16, 2012)

Blacklightning said:


> Do not Bi-amp!!!
> 
> I'm not a novice and I would never cut open my speakers to try and Bi-amp correctly and mess with crossovers etc. Audio Engineers will do a better job and they have testing equipment. I have some testing equipment but no acoustical chamber for speaker testing. Bi-amping (correctly) for 99% of most guys is a waste of time and you will end up with something worse. Bi-amping the incorrect way is great for receivers because it does NOTHING (good or bad) but most will think they hear a difference so it works.
> 
> Spend your time getting your setup correct and work on the room.


Ok, no Bi-amping.

I Would never cut them open either. The speakers I have already have the connections for bi-amping, only reason I was asking/leaning that way.

Maybe marketing tactic? Can't imagine why they put the ability there if it makes no difference.

I guess that means i can get a normal receiver suited for each speaker. Thanks!


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Mindreign said:


> The speakers I have already have the connections for bi-amping, only reason I was asking/leaning that way.
> 
> Maybe marketing tactic? Can't imagine why they put the ability there if it makes no difference.
> 
> I guess that means i can get a normal receiver suited for each speaker. Thanks!


It's all marketing. Years ago really high end speakers meant for Bi-amping had two or three sets of terminals.
So if you are in a store and you see two speakers and you see one has two sets of terminals you would be more likely to think that speaker was better. Some cheap speakers have the terminals hooked up on the inside so it's just for looks. Now a days companies will put that option on all there speakers over a price point because they know people are looking at the back of the speakers. 
The same is true for receivers.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Bi amping gains you nothing audibly. In reality your speakers highs only need 10-15watts max or you will blow the tweeters. All the power goes to the low end and taking that 10watts off of an amp is meaningless. I would spend your money elsewhere.


//So your saying that an active crossover network adds absolutely no coloration or distortions of any kind...


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For what it costs to buy a decent active crossover and separate amps no, its not worth it unless you have really high end speakers and even then Im not convinced.


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