# Beginner needs Receiver for bedroom



## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Hello, I have been in the market for an AVR for the past week and after reviewing over online retailers such as amazon and newegg I have become quite overwhelmed. I recently bought a 46" Samsung LED-LCD and would love to rig up an AVR, speakers, and wall mount it to really get the best out of it. I also connect my pc to the tv (hdmi) for pc gaming using the tv with my wireless xbox 360 controller.

I initially plan on using only two floor standing speakers below the tv facing into the room. Eventually I will purchase a center and a sub to flesh out the sound better, but I have seen some of these speakers that can cover the basic ranges.

I am looking to spend around 200-270 on the AVR. I would like decent feature set to cover what I have listed here. I will be adding a blu ray shortly, but I do not see how that would really change much after what all I have read so far. I have comcast as well, and it is connect with component.

I was recommend on another forum to check out the Onkyo TX-NR414 unit as it fits most of my needs, but I was only getting one person responding to my inquiry would really like more opinions. I was about to purchase until I found a forum listing all the issues with the 2012 line of Onkyo receivers. I really do not want to get something that will be nothing but a frustration especially when I am just now getting into it.

I appreciate any and all help! I look forward to any suggestions and will be checking back periodically. Hopefully this forum can help me start my dive into the world of home theater!


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

Accessories4Less appears to have factory-refurbished Denon AVR-1613s for $249. (Regular price on new ones is $349.)


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Also the onkyo TX 609 for 279 on A4L

Good thing about A4L is they are refurbed and you get a 1 year warranty


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I really think the 609 is impossible to beat in that price bracket. Especially in terms of power supply, nothing really comes close at that price. In addition, the 609 offers an excellent feature set including THX Post Processing.
Cheers,
JJ


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Wow! I go out for mexican and come back to find so many responses! Thank you everyone!

Thank you Jungle Jack for suggesting that receiver. It is a little higher than I suggested but if the quality is there.. then it will be a no brainer purchase! I like that it has THX post processing. I haven't looked over all of the details yet but am about to.

I want to get Sony SSF-5000 Floor Standing 3-way Speaker (can't link yet, need 5 posts) to pair with that receiver. I will eventually get a center and a sub but the range on them seems like it would be a good start! I am looking for any help at this point.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

One thing that worries me is the negative reviews for the 609. It seems to have quite a few issues according to some of the amazon reviewers. Things like this scare me away from a product! I am looking for something that will work as intended, and not fail like a whale right out the gate. Has anyone here had the pleasure of using the 609?


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

If you have the money now newegg is selling open box Polk Audio 50 series 2 for 63 dollars a piece that will be cheaper then the pair of Sony

Plus free shipping


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Jqeen, I looked but could not find. I only saw them for 119, discontinued, and out of stock.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

xioticin said:


> Jqeen, I looked but could not find. I only saw them for 119, discontinued, and out of stock.


Idk then I just seen them on the newegg app


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I'd buy them right now if I could find them lol. That is a steal!


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

xioticin said:


> I'd buy them right now if I could find them lol. That is a steal!


Trying Downloading the app I don't know why it wouldn't show on site sorry man


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I finally found them. I have never bought anything open box in my life! Is it worth the 30 dollars off per speaker?


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Regular price is 199 brand new ..they have them brand new for 119 and you can get them open box for 63 ...I mean its your choice on buying open box good thing is you wouldnt be buying them off craigslist or eBay there from a retailer


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Purchased 2 Polk monitor 50s series 2. Good reviews that fit what im wanting to setup. Now I need a good avr to drive them. Still waiting for anyone to chime in about that 609.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

So newegg decided to have the monitor 60s for sale for the same price today! I am trying to cancel with amazon for the two 50s I ordered last night. If it costs to return shipping, can you use 4 floor standing with a center and a sub to create a good home theater for a bedroom, or is it dumb or too much? I don't want to lose more money on shipping if it's possible at this point.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I have secured 2 Polk Audio Monitor 60's series 2, and I managed to cancel my order on the two 50's! I am now well on my way  I am ready to purchase a receiver tonight and am taking suggestions, opinions, reviews, whatever you got!

Also, Jqueen, thank you for telling me about the newegg app. I never thought to see if one was on the windows phone 7 market, and I now have a new favorite! Major congrats on winning the 10k Home Theater Giveaway!!!


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

xioticin said:


> I have secured 2 Polk Audio Monitor 60's series 2, and I managed to cancel my order on the two 50's! I am now well on my way  I am ready to purchase a receiver tonight and am taking suggestions, opinions, reviews, whatever you got!
> 
> Also, Jqueen, thank you for telling me about the newegg app. I never thought to see if one was on the windows phone 7 market, and I now have a new favorite! Major congrats on winning the 10k Home Theater Giveaway!!!


Thanks man and I'm glad you got your speakers I still personally feel like the 609 is your best Bet and its only 9 dollars out of your 200-270 range


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

xioticin said:


> One thing that worries me is the negative reviews for the 609. It seems to have quite a few issues according to some of the amazon reviewers. Things like this scare me away from a product! I am looking for something that will work as intended, and not fail like a whale right out the gate. Has anyone here had the pleasure of using the 609?


Hello,
I have not read anything on Amazon about the 609. However, we have recommended this AVR to literally hundreds of Members and I honestly cannot think of any who have encountered any issues with the 609.

The prior year's x08 Series did have some issues with a Serial or IDE Cable being defective causing some to have to send in their AVR for repair. And that was over a literal $1 cable that a subcontractor skimped on and was actually a repair that many repaired themselves. Regardless. after so many were affected, I waited a few months after the introduction of the x09 Series scouring every AV Forum I could find looking for issues with this Series before I felt comfortable recommending them.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Also, just from looking at a quick glance of the Amazon Reviews, approximately 180 of the 229 Reviews were 4 Stars or higher with most 5 Stars.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Newegg Reviews of the 609

It is stuff like this that really worries me on purchasing this unit. The negative reviews are quite aplenty! I want to get a good receiver, but I always fear I will be so unlucky as to get a failing/soon to fail unit. Are these people just super new to it and broke it themselves, or is there a real problem with their products now?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

xioticin said:


> Newegg Reviews of the 609
> 
> It is stuff like this that really worries me on purchasing this unit. The negative reviews are quite aplenty! I want to get a good receiver, but I always fear I will be so unlucky as to get a failing/soon to fail unit. Are these people just super new to it and broke it themselves, or is there a real problem with their products now?


Another instance where 33 reviews were 4 stars or higher and 7 with 1 star. Mind you Onkyo's do tend to run hotter than most AVR's and sadly very few bother to read the Owners Manual where it shows minimum clearances for ventilation. In my experience, a rather high number of those who have had issues often go as far as to stack equipment on top of their AVR's.

All the same, if QC is going to give you real cause for concern, I really think you are better off purchasing a Yamaha, Pioneer, Denon, or Marantz. Life is just too short to be always concerned that the other shoe is going to drop.

I can only go off my personal experience and that of the Members here. I have been using Onkyo's since switching to HDMI 5 years ago. I sold both my TX-SR805 and TX-SR875 to friends who live quite close to me and both have been flawless. Same with my TX-NR3008.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

After catching up with the thread, I can see JJ beat me to the punch - as usual. 

As JJ said, the Onkyos have a beefier amplification stage which will produce more heat. More heat = more need for ventilation which most people do not consider. A great example - most computer rooms in large companies have a large array of A/C units. If they did not, they would be replacing equipment left and right as heat is the biggest cause of failure. The same principle applies here - if you have your equipment ventilated well, I would feel very comfortable with going the Onkyo route - plus, you get all the extra goodies and that beefy amplification stage.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

To add to ALM I have the onkyo TX sr805 and its been great..you can also buy fans for like $20 will help with the heat


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Lol, I didn't think about it being dumbies stacking equipment on the AVR. I have read that these things run hot. Not like burn your hand but its noticeable that they produce heat. I have been a pc enthusiast for the past 10 years and know very well about the dangers of HEAT. I have noticed that the Onkyo do have a lot of negatives on failures and what not. I will look at some other receivers and see if their failure rates are high in the reviews.

The 805 is massive! Does it really weigh about 60 lbs? That is crazy.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Yes it really is 60+ pounds I moved it once and that was enough


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

So it looks like its down to the 414 or the 609 from A4L. I am just going to go with it and hope for the best. Unless anyone has a last minute suggestion, it seems like this brand is the top of this market bracket. Also, I was thinking of putting my peripherals in a 3 shelf book case, no glass panels for me as those just insulate. Any suggestions?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

xioticin said:


> So it looks like its down to the 414 or the 609 from A4L. I am just going to go with it and hope for the best. Unless anyone has a last minute suggestion, it seems like this brand is the top of this market bracket. Also, I was thinking of putting my peripherals in a 3 shelf book case, no glass panels for me as those just insulate. Any suggestions?


Hello,
The 414 and 609 are in entirely different classes. The 414 is the definition of an entry level AVR. It does not offer Video Processing whereas the 609 offers Marvell's excellent Qdeo, the 609 offers Audyssey DSX, Audyssey Dynamic Volume and EQ, 4K Processing, a much stronger amplifier stage, THX Post Processing and Certification and much more.

The 609 offers power and features comparable to many $1000 AVR's. The 414 is just not in the same zip code.
Cheers,
JJ


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

A4L 609

So then this is much better than the $249 414 obviously? It sounds like that 609 is a dream AVR for the price


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

For the price range you are looking to spend its probably your best bet and you have a 1 year warranty..you might even upgrade before that


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Buying the 609 after all the responses and what not about its awesomeness. A4L is also going be a first time try. Lots of risks but I am gaining confidence with all the recommendations. Thank you everyone for swaying me!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I would again recommend adding 2 additional years of factory warranty by going to Shoponkyo. That way you will have 3 years of warranty.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

xioticin said:


> Buying the 609 after all the responses and what not about its awesomeness. A4L is also going be a first time try. Lots of risks but I am gaining confidence with all the recommendations. Thank you everyone for swaying me!


Accessories4less is actually a very low risk place to do business with. They offer a 30 day no questions asked Return Policy, are factory authorized, and are some of the nicest folks I have ever dealt with.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

So buy from A4L but go to shoponkyo? Confused with that insertion. I would love more warranty but dont have the option on A4L


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Derp, went there and read the extended warranties page. For $40 thats a great deal.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Anyone recommend banana plugs or speaker wire? I figure amazon is probably a decent place to get that as well.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

xioticin said:


> Anyone recommend banana plugs or speaker wire? I figure amazon is probably a decent place to get that as well.


Hello,
Preterminated Bananas are super convenient and better still are safer as the Bananas that you attach to bare Speaker Wire as they can pull apart which can potentially cause a short.

Bluejeanscable has some great deals on Speaker Cable. In addition, Accessories4less sells some really nice preterminated Speaker Cable for a huge discount.
Cheers,
JJ


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I will be looking into that tomorrow along with some type of media tower/cabinet/bookcase and a wall mount for my tv. I appreciate all of your help and knowledge


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Some of these cables seem a bit pricey and are a bit too long for what i'm really setting up. I did a little reading on oxidization/corrosion, shorting, and other issues with exposed wiring. Looked at both sites. Amazon sells some decent wire and banana plugs for good prices.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

You can check out Monoprice as well - I used their cable and banana plugs throughout my room and they worked out really well.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Purchase time from monoprice, thank you so much for recommended me look here as the savings and quality seems to be amazing!

The wire I am getting- (I don't plan on running the speakers very far at all from the receiver. Less than 5 feet each.
50 Feet of speaker wire

I am getting 10 pair as I have 2 speakers which need two pairs each (1 pair to receiver, 1 pair to speaker). Plan on getting 2 more speakers and a center in the future plus spare parts never hurts to have.
10 Pairs of Banana Plugs

Wall mount for my 46" Samsung. Seems to be a good price even compared to neweggs Rosewill:
Wall mount

If anyone sees any glaring issues, has other recommendations, anything, please just let me know. This site has been more than helpful to me and plan on hanging around. I plan on ordering all this tonight as to have all my parts in this week to get setup. The only thing left that I need is some sort of media tower or place to put all my components. I feel like a bookcase could work but you guys have impressed me so far with your online finds


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

10 Feet preterminated

I could always get this as well as its already put together by a company, but no one has recommended this site and I have no idea if it would be a good idea to get from them.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If you want, you could make a unit yourself. I just finished making a rack for my media closet and it was not that difficult. It turned out pretty well.

Otherwise, Salamander makes something that might work for you:

http://www.salamanderdesigns.com/archetype/arc_baseunits.jsp

They have many other designs as well.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I am afraid that is more skill required in wood working than I have at the moment. And at the time, I am not willing to cross into that skill set before this is even setup. The salamander looks great, but is a little pricey for my plans. I am looking for a cheaper alternative that still has the quality there.

This is seriously the last piece in my setup. Those salamander units are sleek but the cable management looks like it would be a nightmare; welcome to cord city!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I seem to recall JJ mentioning another vendor that was less costly than Salamander, but the name escapes me at the moment. If you want, check out the accessories forum as I am pretty certain I asked the question sometime last year and got a couple responses (before I decided to build my own).


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Much appreciated! Btw, I looked for your build log when you did your downstairs home theater setup from scratch. Thats some handy work man! I would be proud of making something like that!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks! The downside is that now my wife thinks I am her personal handyman and has this extensive list in her head of all the things she would like done.....:rolleyesno:

I spent my whole day yesterday in my rafters replacing a bathroom fan.....:hissyfit:


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

But its good to be needed and loved like that! Plus in her mind you are a super hero with tools with no problem to big to solve. Tis a good feeling to know someone thinks highly of your skills


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Very true! But, I wanted to spend the day working in the HT so it "seemed" like a lost day!


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Looking for something like this:
Jasper

Also just thought and added some adjustable cable ties to my monoprice order. I can only imagine how much these will help in the near future with cable management as all my pc zip ties are non adjustable hard plastic.

PS: Check the site title for that furniture piece! Good job Walmart lol.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

After reading through so many reviews and looking at varying designs, one question I can't answer is how important is the open vs. closed types for heat dissipation?! I know that heat will destroy these units but how much heat are we talking here. Some of these even have stylish glass doors which I wouldn't think helps the units passively cool off. Trying to get something figured out by the end of the day so all of it can start shipping to me and be received before the end of the week.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If it were me, I would err on the side of caution and go open. The biggest cause of failure in equipment is improper ventilation - I remember JJ saying he has seen several pictures where people stack equipment on top of each other and he just shudders.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Sonax CR-2420 Cruise

vs

Sonax CR-2360
This minus the doors

This top one looks nice and open, I could work easily with that. The only con/worry I have is that it says the glass is 25# which I guess means thats the maximum supported weight. The Onkyo 609 I ordered weighs 24.7 (or thats what it says on the site) Is that too close?


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I have been looking at some mentions of heat abundance from the 609 or an onkyo product. I know that proper ventilation is a must and the receiver will be placed on a bottom shelf with a fair amount of clearance and open sides. My wonder is, would something like this help with the heat dissipation and hopefully increase the lifespan of the device. Hdmi failure seems to be related to heat issues and I do not want the unit to fail because of something I can prevent. 

Laptop cooling Pad


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

xioticin said:


> I have been looking at some mentions of heat abundance from the 609 or an onkyo product. I know that proper ventilation is a must and the receiver will be placed on a bottom shelf with a fair amount of clearance and open sides. My wonder is, would something like this help with the heat dissipation and hopefully increase the lifespan of the device. Hdmi failure seems to be related to heat issues and I do not want the unit to fail because of something I can prevent.
> 
> Laptop cooling Pad


Fans are always a good idea to increase air flow. That fan is USB powered - do you have a place to plug that in? I have a link that Harry (hjones) put up a while ago for a line voltage fan that ran $22. If interested, I can link that when I get home from my sons basketball practice.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

That would be great! There is a USB on the front of the receiver. I don't really want to use that as it will look tacky. I don't really like the " just a 120mm fan " slapped on top solution. Looks pretty cheap and bad.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Here is the one that Harry linked for me a while ago:

http://www.buyextras.com/cocofanki14q.html


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

To better help you with the decision making process, what kind of budget do you have to work with for the complete audio set up?


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

ALMFamily said:


> Fans are always a good idea to increase air flow. That fan is USB powered - do you have a place to plug that in? I have a link that Harry (hjones) put up a while ago for a line voltage fan that ran $22. If interested, I can link that when I get home from my sons basketball practice.


The 609 has its own USB port and could power the USB fan. Alternativly, you could use a cell phone charger (HTC) or PS3 controller charger. But in my opinion, you don't want a fan because it creates unnecessary noise pollution and two, Onkyo's run fine with passive cooling; even here in Florida in the summer in a small bedroom with out air-conditioning running and the windows closed.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

8086 said:


> The 609 has its own USB port and could power the USB fan. Alternativly, you could use a cell phone charger (HTC) or PS3 controller charger. But in my opinion, you don't want a fan because it creates unnecessary noise pollution and two, Onkyo's run fine with passive cooling; even here in Florida in the summer in a small bedroom with out air-conditioning running and the windows closed.


True, but I believe that the USB port is on the front. I agree with the OP that it can look somewhat tacky if your equipment is visible. Also, for the Onkyo, that is the port that is used to connect an iPod so if you plan on using it for that purpose, you would have to unplug the fan somewhat defeating the purpose of getting it.

That said, I agree that it will create extra sound that may be distracting. In my case, all my gear is in a closet with a glass door so that noise will be severely muted. 

If you have a few inches of clearance around the unit (but especially the top) I think you would be fine. If not, it becomes a choice between dealing with the noise or running the risk of shortening the life of your unit.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I have a zune and run my music from my computer any way. I do not want to clog up that port anyway. I really do want to keep this unit in a good shape heat wise. Putting it on the bottom shelf so that the cool air will be around it and it will be away from other sources of heat.

As for noise, they make near silent fans like scythe and noctua. Just have to match sleeve bearing vs ball bearing for vertical or horizontal mounting. This won't be in a cabinet, it will be on the sonax I posted earlier.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

ALMFamily said:


> True, but I believe that the USB port is on the front. I agree with the OP that it can look somewhat tacky if your equipment is visible. Also, for the Onkyo, that is the port that is used to connect an iPod so if you plan on using it for that purpose, you would have to unplug the fan somewhat defeating the purpose of getting it.
> 
> That said, I agree that it will create extra sound that may be distracting. In my case, all my gear is in a closet with a glass door so that noise will be severely muted.
> 
> If you have a few inches of clearance around the unit (but especially the top) I think you would be fine. If not, it becomes a choice between dealing with the noise or running the risk of shortening the life of your unit.


I think there is a USB port on the rear. And if push comes to shove, you can always use a *powered* USB hub. As for your closet, make sure it has adequate air circulation. Onkyo receivers can get a bit warm in a confined space. Its also good practice to make sure your receiver is on the very highest shelf so it is ensured that nothing above it will block its cooling slots (Stereophile magazine tip, from the early 90s).


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Haha thanks! You got a few of us mixed up as I will be placing my stuff on a media stand. My receiver will be at the bottom because some shelves are glass and do not support the weight and the top would just end up obscuring the bottom of my tv(I can't mount the tv at the ceiling).

The manual warns against placing rubber/plastic anything on top of it as it might "leave marks". Still don't know how or what i'll do to deal with excess heat if it has it. The receiver came in today and I have already done the latest firmware update. So far, i'm slowly learning this thing. My speaker wire and plugs haven't arrived yet nor my media stand. Everything so far is great.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

xioticin said:


> Haha thanks! You got a few of us mixed up as I will be placing my stuff on a media stand. My receiver will be at the bottom because some shelves are glass and do not support the weight and the top would just end up obscuring the bottom of my tv(I can't mount the tv at the ceiling).
> 
> The manual warns against placing rubber/plastic anything on top of it as it might "leave marks". Still don't know how or what i'll do to deal with excess heat if it has it. The receiver came in today and I have already done the latest firmware update. So far, i'm slowly learning this thing. My speaker wire and plugs haven't arrived yet nor my media stand. Everything so far is great.


Congrats man enjoy your new equipment


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

xioticin said:


> Haha thanks! You got a few of us mixed up as I will be placing my stuff on a media stand. My receiver will be at the bottom because some shelves are glass and do not support the weight and the top would just end up obscuring the bottom of my tv(I can't mount the tv at the ceiling).
> 
> The manual warns against placing rubber/plastic anything on top of it as it might "leave marks". Still don't know how or what i'll do to deal with excess heat if it has it. The receiver came in today and I have already done the latest firmware update. So far, i'm slowly learning this thing. My speaker wire and plugs haven't arrived yet nor my media stand. Everything so far is great.


You can buy little felt feet (pads) and place them on the bottom of your av equipment. Alternatively, you can just go to your local fabric shop and place a piece of felt under the receiver. 

Also note: I've done this an beat my head against the wall trying to figure out what I did wrong. An improper menu config can really make a great system and awesome speakers sound terrible.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I just noticed earlier that on my sonax media stand there are 3 holes pre-cut on the back of the board for cable routing. I wish to, and seem required to due to weight, put my receiver on the bottom. I am wondering if I will need to cut a hole for cable management. I can't tell if it is MDF or high density on the back panel.. What is the easiest/cleanest solution to drilling/cutting a hole into the back of something like this?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

How big of a hole are you cutting? If you are going with something around 1", an auger bit should do the trick. Any bigger than that, I would suggest a hole saw.

Either way, start the cut on the visible side. Once done, you can clean up the backside with some fine grain sandpaper if needed.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

1" to 3". I have access to power tools as well. I read up on hole saws, forstner bits, and spade bits. Figure I could even use some painters tape to keep it from chipping or scratching the surface. Just never cut wholes in such a material.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

They actually drill out pretty clean. I just cut 2 1" holes with a spade (not auger:rolleyesno bit and they were really clean.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

Just thought about it... was thinking a 1" hole is going to be too small for what all i'm running through to the receiver. But I would always making a 1" dead center and then do two more on each side making a flat oval shape. That would give me plenty of running room, is easier than doing a larger circle, and requires no extra tools other than a 1" spade. Is this just logical enough to work?

Like this:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I seem to find that if both sides of the spade bit do not have something to grab, it tends to jump around which is probably the last thing you want.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

But if the holes are spaced like in the image, they will for all purposes have that, then I can just saw the parts in between each circle, sand, and paint.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Odd - when I saw the previous post, the image was not there. That should work IMO.


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## xioticin (Dec 6, 2012)

I added it after I reread my post and saw that an image would explain it better. I am thinking this is what will give me the quickest fix. Not many other options for management past drilling those holes.


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