# Sdx15 (sealed) vs. trio12 w/pr15?



## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

I'm trying to decide between building either of these two subs. I have a very open house and size is somewhat important to me too. I mostly watch tv/movies and any other time i've got my records playing. Would the sdx15 be never used to the potential it has unless I crank it waay up? Also, can I build the sdx15 sealed with the 1000 watt amp css sells instead of the 1300 watt amp they recommend? Lots of decisions!

Thanks in advance for your help!


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Go with the SDX15 sealed, it will have more output compared to the TRIO12.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Mike P. said:


> Go with the SDX15 sealed, it will have more output compared to the TRIO12.


If you follow Mikes advice you can use a pro-amp and a behringer feedback destroyer to setup the SDX.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Another question. I plan on using the plans on the css webite for the "flat" sealed box I think it's 3.4 cubic feet. I know the plans call for the lt1300 amp but could I get away with the 1000 watt amp they sell or would I have to modify the 1000 watt amp? Does the 1300 from elemental designs have to be modified or is it plug and play? Obviously I'll be adjusting once installed! Their 1000 watt amp has adjustable eq onboard. Thanks for the patience with my newbie questions!


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## mwmkravchenko (Jul 11, 2009)

> If you follow Mikes advice you can use a pro-amp and a behringer feedback destroyer to setup the SDX.


Good advice!

Or you can also get that neat little auto EQ from Bob at CSS. It's close to the same price and the learning curve is almost zero compared to the feedback destroyer. 

Mark


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## Binary (Nov 23, 2009)

The sdx 15 is the better bet on this one. If you've got an open house youre definitely gonna wanna move some air. The behringer EP amplifiers are relatively cheap. and as far as it goes its always nice to have more power than you want. you'd be surpised time and time again how many speakers will take double their rated power short term without any complaints. 

I've got an SDX 15 in a LLT. if you can make the space for it, there is no comparison between a sealed box and a LLT. If you are a theater/music guy like myself, you won't regret making the box count. no highpass required, just like your sealed design. Remember a larger box doesnt always mean a larger footprint. Sono-subs are the perfect example. The trio is nice, but its no SDX.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks for the info guys! Sounds like I'll go with the sdx just because I know the upgrade itch will bite lot sooner if I go smaller. It's too bad you have to hide all of that massive sub behind a box! To keep the wife happy I am trying to make the design into an end table if possible. Looks like I'll have to do some research on the behringer amps. I was hoping to just use a plate amp onboard but I'm open to all options at this point. I definitely want to keep the project under 1000 bucks. Does anybody have experience with the elemental designs 1300 amp? Thanks again!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Binary (Nov 23, 2009)

The idea of a plate amp is nice, but the idea of a pro amp is much better, the costs are very similar for the lower wattage setups, once you break the 1000w range the plate amps are usually more expensive, and you've gotta sacrifice some internal volume of your box if you go that route. Pro amp > Plate Amp.

1000w is fine for more than loud volume levels. in fact in a LLT 1000w is pretty much the limits. (With this driver) The end table design is a great way to get some WAF, i'd be aiming for coffee table sized though.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Binary said:


> The idea of a plate amp is nice, but the idea of a pro amp is much better, the costs are very similar for the lower wattage setups, once you break the 1000w range the plate amps are usually more expensive, and you've gotta sacrifice some internal volume of your box if you go that route. Pro amp > Plate Amp.
> 
> 1000w is fine for more than loud volume levels. in fact in a LLT 1000w is pretty much the limits. (With this driver) The end table design is a great way to get some WAF, i'd be aiming for coffee table sized though.


since we are talking about coffee tables now, I was also considering the sdx15 with the two 15 pr's in a coffee table design. Now would that package that css offers be a comparable alternative to my other idea? We do need a new coffee table in the house anyway. I would assume that would be a great option as well?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Binary (Nov 23, 2009)

do the single SDX in 10-16 cubes tuned for 15hz or lower. mines in 16 cubes lightly stuffed (my estimation is always between 17 and 18 cubes) Mines tuned for 15 hz as well. no need for a high pass. wicked output to the mid teens, and less parts! the PR's are nice, but who cares! if your port isnt making bad noises, then why bother spending money on some extra parts. Slot ports are your friend as they also work as bracing! And remember to brace heavily on the internals. You don't want your big box flexing. 

oh, and on a side note, nothing beats nearfield bass. 

If you are planning on placing it in a wierd locale and still want the best performance, i'd reccomend a velodyne SMS-1 or the DSpeaker processor offered by Bob at CSS. otherwise, unless your room has nasty issues, you will be flat in room with a small exaggeration on the teens-20hz range and flat from there to 125 easily. i'd be aiming for a lower crossover such as 60-80hz.

You might need something like a converter box in order for your LFE out to be seen by the pro amp, but not everyone experiences this issue. and its a hurdle to jump when you get to it. I am currently using one for my QSC RMX2450. a lot of ppl are using em for their behringers. A few arent.

Hope this helps.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks again for the advice! I'm not new to building speakers and such, but I have to admit the last time I played around with speakers is many years ago before all the new stuff you guys are talking about! Foe now I want to keep the project as simple as possible until I get my hands dirty if you know what I mean. So if you guys can direct me to some plans that illustrate what you are explaining, then that would help me out big time! Binary, when you mean 16 cubes, you must mean 16 cubic feet?! Sorry for the ignorance, I won't learn unless I ask! For now I can't quite fit something that big into my room since it's not a dedicated HT. In rolls the WAF. haha.

Now would two 12" powered by 500 watts each be in the same league as a single 15" powered by 1000 watts?

Also I'm not looking for insane SPL's yet, just some tighter lower bass, since my current sub rolls off at 30hz and it drives me insane! 

Thanks for the newbie patience!:help:


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

What is your current sub? A pair of TRIO 12's ported would have more low end then a sealed SDX15 with 1000 watts input.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

It's a very tired old 10" athena sub. Asp-400 i believe is the model. So in other words, ANYTHING will be an improvement over it! But I used to have an ooollllldddd wharfedale 15 sub that had a box taller than me. I wish I still had that. It was old, but thumped!

That chart is the sdx vs. the two trios?

Thanks


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Yes, yellow is a SDX15 sealed with 1000 watts, pink is a pair of TRIO12's tuned to 21 hz with 1000 watts.


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## Binary (Nov 23, 2009)

Mike P. said:


> Yes, yellow is a SDX15 sealed with 1000 watts, pink is a pair of TRIO12's tuned to 21 hz with 1000 watts.


comparing multiple ported drivers to a single sealed is apples to oranges. yes i did mean 16 cubic feet. its not that hard to pull off. just make it 12 inches deep 2ft tall and 8ft wide. i know internal will be less but were aiming for Large Low Tuned. stuff it behind the couch lol. the cost of 2 trio 12s is almost the same as the sdx, but in terms of raw low end power it is not apples to apples. 2x12inch = 1x15 at the same xmax. youll gain 8mm with the sdx. and from experience the 15 has a much nicer build quality to it. the 12s are nice, but no sdx series.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks Binary, I have the same thoughts. I would rather build around the sdx than be disappointed with wanting more from a system w/ 12's. But I think for now I'm going to keep the box as small as possible and then always have the option of building bigger. 

Has anybody ever noticed audible differences between a ported sub and say, the same sub with passive radiators? I have been eyeballing the quartet 15 kit css offers. I like the idea of starting of with a kit, or well drawn plans


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

I see we've made the move to ported already.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> I see we've made the move to ported already.


well I haven't quite made that decision yet! I'm still tryng to find a design that is going to fit. I still have many hours of reading and learning before I take the plunge. This is my first sub build so I want to keep it simple
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Binary (Nov 23, 2009)

ported and passives are the same beast, except that passives can be smaller because there is no port volume required. the tradeoff is space for $. thats the bottom line. lol.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

I think I'm going to go with the SDX15 just so I can upgrade amps and box setups later. Which plate amp would you guys suggest a new guy like me to install in a 3.5 ft^3 box? Thanks


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

A SDX15 sealed?


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

you bet! Then hopefully a second one down the road. Should I start looking into my breakers in my basement with these kind of sub wattages? I have an old farm house. haha


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

A plate amp isn't the way to go with this. The Dayton plate amp has a hi-pass filter at 18 hz (yellow), a pro amp doesn't (orange). An EP4000 has enough power for 2 subs and is half to the cost of 2 plate amps.

http://www.axemusic.com/search.asp?strKeywords=ep4000&numRecordPosition=1


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Thanks for that link! That is cheap for that kind of power! Now how much do these amps consume power wise? Will I need to wire it into a separate breaker on my panel? I believe the current breaker is only 15 amp


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

A separate breaker would be a good idea. The amp will definitely be drawing power if you eventually push 2 subs hard.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Sorry if this is a silly question, but is it absolutely necessary to have the eq along with this amp?


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Not at all.


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## Binary (Nov 23, 2009)

Like i said earlier, Pro amps are the way to go. more flexibility without having to lose volume inside the cabinet. A set of speaker wires is just as easy to run as a digital Coax for your LFE out. Even if you have to spend $50 on a converter box, youre still saving a new amp down the road, and the internal volume inside that box. When it comes to a woofer like the SDX, Bigger IS Better.

$ for watt. a pro amp will beat just about anything on the market, Even those insanely cheap car audio amps that are not built for half the abuse these pro amps are.


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## MatthewNixon (Mar 5, 2010)

Binary said:


> Like i said earlier, Pro amps are the way to go. more flexibility without having to lose volume inside the cabinet. A set of speaker wires is just as easy to run as a digital Coax for your LFE out. Even if you have to spend $50 on a converter box, youre still saving a new amp down the road, and the internal volume inside that box. When it comes to a woofer like the SDX, Bigger IS Better.
> 
> $ for watt. a pro amp will beat just about anything on the market, Even those insanely cheap car audio amps that are not built for half the abuse these pro amps are.


Thanks for the info guys! Now I just have to manage to find the room for the amps! Since the behringer has an onboard fan, does it need certain clearances around it? Just room in front and behind?
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Binary (Nov 23, 2009)

Yes, The EP's are rackmount design, only front and back clearance required.  the fan can be a little noisy, if it bugs you there are fan mods on this site to help.


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