# Midi interface question



## jmprader (Apr 19, 2006)

I've been using Room Eq Wizard with an FBQ2496 and a Soundblaster MP3+ USB soundcard. I have been setting filters the "old fashioned" way (manually from the recommended filter setting in REW). 

I want to set up a midi connection to make setting initial filters quick and simple while I do some location tweaking and room treatment "experiments". Is the process as simple as plugging the midi unit in between the other USB input on my laptop and then to the FBQ2496? :blush: 

Please address responses to "dear Nimrod:"


----------



## fibreKid (Apr 20, 2006)

That works for me. I have the 1124 and the EDIROL um-1x usb/midi adapter. I had to enable the auto setting on the the BFD but on the 2496 I think it's enabled by default. The cable will require some drivers to be loaded but once it's setup it's a easy as clicking a button. It's pretty fast too. 5-10 seconds to load all the filters.


----------



## jmprader (Apr 19, 2006)

Thanks for the quick tip, I ordered the midi unit today. Hope this answers a simple, but honest question for others as slow in teh uptake as I can be...


----------



## Guest (May 28, 2006)

I'm using the REW and a Behringer 1124 with midi cables and a soundblaster live, but haven't had any luck transferring the filter setting over, the in/out blinks and the save blinks and it all looks good, but nothing, checked out all the settings and did what the BFD guide says, but no go, was wondering about your comment about enabling the "auto" setting on the BFD, what do you mean by that

Josh


----------



## fibreKid (Apr 20, 2006)

The manual for REW has a section that explains "Configuring the DSP1124P for Midi Comunications". These steps have to be followed for the 1124 or all you will get is flashing lights. Also note that the last step of this will be lost and you will need to redo it if power is lost, for example the power cord is removed or there is a power outage. Turning the BFD on or off is fine. I put my filter setting on the 10th channel, that's the defualt that it returns to if it looses power also.

Hope this makes sense.  
-john


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm using the same setup that fibrekid is using. I set it up for the first time today and experimented with it. A breeze! It does indeed make things easier and faster. I'm pretty quick loading filters manually, but I ain't near that quick.... and now I don't have to get up out of my chair when testing different filter settings.

I think it's neat... I disegaged my BFD (OUT on the IN/OUT button)... took my measurement... created the filters and sent them to the BFD. The BFD is then set to the preset I loaded the filters on and engaged (IN on the IN/OUT button). I take another measurement and twala... just like I ordered it.

For some reason I did not have to load any drivers in XP Pro for the MIDI interface. It recognized I had new hardware when I plugged it in and it worked fine after setting the BFD per the REW Help file instructions. 

Neat as grits!


----------



## Guest (May 30, 2006)

well i'm glad that REW is working fine for you guys, but i've read and reread the instructions for the BFD and REW and the same thing is happening, i can program the filters manually just fine, but when i try to send them from the REW on the puter, the BFD flashes and the save led flashes, but nothing happens, no filters are transferred over, i'm at a loss, tried everything, maybe one of you guys that has it working can give me a step by step, maybe i'm leaving something obvious out, don't know, very frustrating


thanks

Josh


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Josh... if you have your MIDI interface installed on your computer properly, have the MIDI cable plugged into the MIDI IN on the BFD and followed these instructions then there is no reason for it not to work.

If it is not working then some of the above has not been done correctly. Those are very clear step by step intstructions.


----------



## Otto (May 18, 2006)

I think I was having a similar problem. First, my MIDI cable is labeled "in" and "out", and I had connected them to the matching "in" and "out" on the BFD (knowing full well that it was backwards, depending on your perspective to "in" and "out"). Not much was going on, so I swapped them, and lights started flashing, etc. That sounds like the point where you are. 

Now I would download to the BFD and things would flash, and it _appeared_ that things were being loaded. However, at test, there was no change in the measurements. I found that if the "SAVE" button is flashing, that you have NOT saved anything at that point. You can set the "auto save" feature by scrolling through the inputs on the BFD, and then the REW will be able to initiate the save. If the "SAVE" button is flashing, press it twice to save the downloaded values (they will save to the current EQ program; I think you can change the target program between the first and second presses of the "SAVE" button, but I did not use that -- I was sending them to the "right" program via the REW, so I didn't care). 

The problem, if you will, is that the "auto save" feature is lost after each power cycle of the BFD. So, if you, like me, set everything up properly through the REW, and then power cycled for whatever reason, you were losing the settings. 

Give it a try, and best of luck. 

-- Otto


----------



## Guest (May 31, 2006)

Thanks Otto,

I tried all that also, but still nothing, I'm going to buy a new usb to midi cable, i think that my old Creative Audigy soundcard midi isn't working properly, even though it appears to be sending

maybe there is an incompatability with that particular card the the BFD

T


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2006)

I am having *exactly* the same problem. I have gone through the BFD Midi setup menu several times to verify the settings:

'1c'
'0o'
'3C'
'3P'
'1S'
'0d'

When I perform a download the REW app *does* successfully change the BFD preset to the same preset I choose in the download prompts, however I *never* get any filter settings transferred, *and* the 'Store' LED always ends up flashing. Even if I then press the store button twice to make it stop flashing, no filters are altered in any way.

My BFD is brand new (just shipped from the factory) -- I am wondering if Behringer has made a small change to the protocol which is making the unit incompatible.

-Jon


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hey Jon and welcome to the Shack!

Is there any instructions in the BFD Manual and if so do they differ from the instructions in REW? If we ever verify a change we can get JohnM to update the REW instructions for the newer units.

I could see josh's being possibly different with the 2496 but the 1124 should be the same, but we never know. It might also be something you could email Behringer support on. They are very good with support help via their online email support.


----------



## Guest (Jun 8, 2006)

I think Behringer has an app which allows Midi control/download of filters. I will give that app a try (this will also prove if the Midi interface is behaving).

If that app does work, then I will try to get a raw Midi capture of what is being sent and compare it to what is being sent by REW and could forward that onto the developer.

-Jon


----------



## jmprader (Apr 19, 2006)

My Edirol midi interface showed up and, after loading the drivers, hooked it up to my 2496 unit and the laptop. Everything worked like a charm. Since I have dual subs, I chose to send the filters to each (just repeated the process sending the filters to the L then R side. It helped that, for the first time in a long time I read and followed the directions the first time...not a manly thing to do, but I am certain I avoided reinforcing my 3 teenagers' budding knowledge of the vernacular.

The frames and fabrics for my semi-DIY room treatments (703 for the reflection points and 703/acoustical cotton for the corner traps) got finished, too. Looks like a little weekend fun coming up as I hang the 703 panels at first reflection points then attempt to tweak things in the bottom end. We'll see if the corner traps help tame a couple of big nulls I'm faced with below 80hz. The BFD worked great with manual filter sets for taming the peaks and getting the hang of REW and the BFD, now it's just far easier to do the basics and then tweak some more.

If I have the time and can find the old data, I'll post some previous FR and waterfall plots and the current results. Maybe some pics of the wall treatments and traps (the latter are a bit "retro" in style).


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

jmprader said:


> It helped that, for the first time in a long time I read and followed the directions the first time...not a manly thing to do, ...


:nono: No... you didn't... :reading: ...shame on you!


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

I'm with Jon Rhees. My unit is new also, and I guarantee that I have the settings on the BFD set as described in the instructions. The MIDI communicates because I can make the BFD change to the preset I designated in REW. But it does not save. Doesn't work. Store LED flashes.


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Snookboy said:


> I'm with Jon Rhees. My unit is new also, and I guarantee that I have the settings on the BFD set as described in the instructions. The MIDI communicates because I can make the BFD change to the preset I designated in REW. But it does not save. Doesn't work. Store LED flashes.


If you then press the Store key twice does it save the filter settings you sent it, i.e. are they then the same as the filters you set up on REW?


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

No, they don't save.


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Snookboy said:


> No, they don't save.


Very odd. The Store LED flashes when the 1124P has filter values that have changed. First press of store sets the preset number in the display flashing, second press saves the changed values to that preset and the Store LED goes out. When you say the filter values don't save, do you mean the settings in the filters are all as they were before you sent a new set, or they are different but not what they should be? Are LEDs lit for any or all of the filters whose gain is not zero?


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

I can set the BFD on preset 5. Send the filters from REW requesting to set them to preset 6. I am communicating because the BFD changes to preset 6. Store button begins to blink. Push it twice, it goes out. End result...nothing. Preset 6 is as it was before.


----------



## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi there,

I know this sounds like a smart-*** question (it's not meant to be  ), but how are you telling that it's the same as it was before? What are the values before and after in the BFD? And what does REW suggest they should be in the PC application?

When you press the SAVE key twice, what happens? Does it stop blinking? Are the red LEDs lit on the front panel or are they dark? Is A or B or both/none selected to be filtered? Any other lights on?

Weird problems...


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

Otto,

If there were filter lights blinking before sending from REW, they are still blinking after manually trying to save. I can manually check the filter settings....there is no change. Nothing is saved. (Yes, the save key stops blinking after pushing twice....but none of the filters change)


----------



## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Snookboy,

Well, that is strange. I wish I could help, and there are certainly plenty of other people around here that know this thing as well (better than I do!). I bet you've played with this thing enough by now... I dunno what else to do with it. I suppose it could be defective... Must happen every once in a while. Best of luck, and let me know if you ever figure it out.


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

Thanks....I'm going to mess with it some more tonight....it's either defective or stupid user error....probably the latter but I'm going with the former until I prove myself wrong!


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

The filter lights only blink when the 1124P is in feedback destroyer mode, i.e. it is searching for feedback tones and controlling the filters with the blinking lights to control any feedback it finds. Filters with blinking lights are being controlled by the 1124P. Filters in Parametric mode have their LED off if their gain is 0dB, and their LED lit is their gain is not 0. 

REW should set all the filters to Parametric as part of the midi download, sounds like it is having no success after the preset selection. You could try manually setting each filter to Parametric before starting and see if that helps any, could also try a different preset. What Midi interface are you using?


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

I'm having the same problems. I followed the directions step by step...blinking lights...save twice. Nothing transfered. All is at the default values. Will enter manually next. Hope someone can work this out.

Using the UM-1EX.


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

John,

I tried presetting the filters to PA with no success yesterday. I am using the UM-1EX as the UM-1 has been discontinued and couldn't find one. Maybe this model is not compatible but I wouldn't see why. It is sending the MIDI signal as I can make the BFD change to the selected preset. It just doesn't write the filters.


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

I see the UM-1EX has a "Midi Thru" switch, does it make a difference which way this switch is set? If not I'll get a UM-1EX and work out what is going on.


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

Not that I can tell John. I have tried it with the switch both on and off. I have also installed the driver and used the "advanced switch". Thanks.


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

The UM-1EX arrived today. All seems to work OK, same as the UM-1X. The "Thru" switch needs to be off, else nothing happens, but otherwise seems fine. Midi connectors hooked up to IN and OUT in accordance with the text embossed on the connector bodies (nothing happens if they are the wrong way around). Leaves me at a bit of a loss as far as understanding what might be going wrong.

To confirm what should happen when all is working normally:

- Edirol driver needs to be installed before connecting the UM-1, UM-1 is plugged in when the install program asks for it etc.
- Equaliser needs to be set to DSP1124P
- Midi Input Port and Midi Output Port in the Comms menu need to be set to Edirol UM-1 Midi

- Hit Ctrl+Shift+F to send filter settings to the unit (or select the entry from the Equaliser menu)
- Choose which tab the filters are to be taken from
- Choose which bank (left or right) the filters are to be loaded into
- Choose which preset to use
- Hit OK
- The Midi Out LED on the UM-1EX should flash once, the IN/OUT LED on the BFD should flicker once and the preset on the BFD should change to the selected preset (if it was different to the preset the BD was already on)
- About two seconds later the UM-1EX Midi Out LED should start to flash about 4 times a second as the 12 filter sets are transferred, the IN/OUT LED on the BFD should flicker at the same time to indicate Midi comms is happening. The filter LEDs for the selected bank should go off if the corresponding filter for that tab is set to "None" or has gain=0dB, or go on if the gain is set to a non-zero value
- If the BFD has been turned off since store enable was last set the STORE LED will be flashing, otherwise it will be off. If it is flashing, pressing it will make the preset number flash, pressing again will save the settings.

Snookboy, Ron: How much of that corresponds to what you see when you try downloading filters?


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

John,

I took another stab at it this morning. I did reset the store setting to the correct value on the BFD. The advanced driver is installed. The Thru switch is set to off. The advanced switch is set to on (both have been tried with the same result). Midi's are connected correctly. Equaliser is set to DSP1124P and midi correctly selected in the comm menu. It _does_ communicate. When I send it to the equalizer, it does blink. It will change to another preset if it's not on the preset selected. But the store light blinks when it completes and if I hit the store button twice it does _not_ save the filters. It does communicate, but it does not pass the filters. I have no idea. There is no doubt in my mind that everything is hooked up and configured correctly.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

I've been under the weather for the last week and have not tried again.

(I had a tooth removed...feeling a lot better.)


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Snookboy said:


> I took another stab at it this morning. I did reset the store setting to the correct value on the BFD. The advanced driver is installed. The Thru switch is set to off. The advanced switch is set to on (both have been tried with the same result). Midi's are connected correctly. Equaliser is set to DSP1124P and midi correctly selected in the comm menu. It _does_ communicate. When I send it to the equalizer, it does blink. It will change to another preset if it's not on the preset selected. But the store light blinks when it completes and if I hit the store button twice it does _not_ save the filters. It does communicate, but it does not pass the filters. I have no idea. There is no doubt in my mind that everything is hooked up and configured correctly.


Does the Bank Select also change to the bank you have chosen to download to? If you look in the diagnostic logs (location shown in the About dialog) after trying to download filters have any errors been logged? I'll try increasing the time between midi messages in the next release to see if that helps, but a bit of a shot in the dark...


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

I noticed that both the right and left engines were lit, even when I selected the left one.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

I tried sending filter data to program 10 using the midi interface with no results. It all looks as you describe John, but...R and L engines blink.

Looking at filter 1 I get a frequency of 0.50 khz and a gain of +0. What should have transfered was frequency of 48 hz with a gain -17.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

Tried again with the UM-1EX with no results. This time I documented each step with pictures. First thing I did was uninstall the UM-1EX drivers per the instructions.

The attached images are the Windows used to setup the drivers. Drivers are now properly installed.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

Next made sure everything is properly connected.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

Next made sure DSP1124P configured for Midi Communication.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

Transmit filter.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

Results.

Program 10 shows both R and L lit, SI for single shot, plus none of the filters were transferred. Something is amiss.:surrender:


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

This probably doesn't have anything to do with it, but why do you have the MIDI plugged into the MIDI OUT on the back of the BFD? I've only ever used the IN. Just curious.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

Concrete reasoning. Following the directions for the UM-1EX per the manual.

Does it make a difference? Don't know. I'll give it a try.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

Removed the Midi OUT connection. Still cannot get the filters to take.


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Strange stuff, Ron. I've tried increasing the delay between Midi commands for the next version of REW in case that is an issue, I'll let you know when I have a beta version ready so you can see if it helps.


----------



## rcarlton (Apr 29, 2006)

JohnM,
Thanks. Looking forward to it.


----------



## Guest (Aug 9, 2006)

I am using the 1124 BFD model and it is brand new as well

Everything that Snookboy (I'm assuming that he likes to play snooker, I am also a Snooker Player) said is exactly what is happening to me, word for word, I've checked everything out, been doing this stuff for over 30 years, have been a sound man, run mobile sounds systems and played with more high end equipment than I'd like to admit, am extremely comfortable around computers, repair and build them, but still no idea what is going on, thats my 2 cents worth, I really appreciate that others are having the same problem, I thought alzheimers was setting in, hope some of you smarter guys can figure this out, thanks again for all the info

Josh


----------



## Guest (Aug 9, 2006)

And by the way, I am able to enter the filter settings manually without any problems, it's only when I try to tranfer them through the midi from the puter that the BFD 1124 doesn't accept them, it lights up as if it is accepting, but doesn't save them, even when I push the save button manually, still nothing

Paradigm Servo 15, Acoustat 1+1's, Magneplaner SMG's, AMT1 Heil's, Carver 1.0T, Harmon Kardon Citation 16, JBL 18 inch homebrew sub, BBE Sonic Maximizer 482i, Mirage LF1 Electronic Xover with continously variable high and low pass filters (very important), Carver C9 Sonic Hologram Generator, Modded Xbox with Xbox Media Center for streaming Video and Audio and other assorted goodies

I could never ever be without my BFD 1124, like my C9, BBE 482i and my Acoustat's, its an integral part of my system now, I have golden eared audiophile friends that think nothing of spending several hundred dollars on speaker cable or special interconnects and convince themselves that it sounds better, who have listened to my system and now also use a BBE sonic maximizer and a Carver C9, and admit that the Xbox sounds as good as popping a CD into the player and listening to it direct. I am a believer in being able to actually hear the difference in sound without having to strain the brain because I just spent a bunch of cash and need to justify it, I have bought lots of high end cables and they are nice, last forever, look great and I will always use them, even sold audio for a while and tried to set up double blind demo's to sell the tweaks, and if you want to hear a difference you will. I bought the Harmon Kardon Citation Series components new as well as the Heil AMT's, so that will tell you how long I've been playing with this stuff

Boy that was long winded 

Josh


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

Josh,

Actually I live in South Florida and spend my free time in the backcountry of the Everglades chasing tarpon and snook with a fly rod. Can't say that I have ever played Snookers. I would be happy to learn though!

I'm sorry to say that I'm glad to see someone else having the same issue. I know that's cruel and mean spirited, but I know I have this thing configured correctly to take the filters and it simply is not working. Actually I have given up as I am completely confident that I have it connected and configured correctly. If it's not working now, it's not going to. I know of nothing else to try, tweak, or change. I just grit my teeth and enter them manually. I hope you have better luck.


----------



## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I just grit my teeth and enter them manually


Certainly it's nice to push a button and update the filters, but equalization is hopefully a one shot deal that makes manual entry somewhat less painful. :jiggy:


----------



## Guest (Aug 10, 2006)

Brucek is right, once you've entered the filters, its done unless things change in components or room configuration, so its not really that bad, but it sure would be cool to be able to utilize the REW to its fullest, its such an awesome program

I have resolved myself to manually entering the filters and I still love my BFD and appreciate everything that Brucek and all of you have done to enable an old timer like myself to appreciably update the sound of my system to new heights.

Even though I have a Paradigm Servo 15, which you have to hear to believe, it never sounded that great before because of three peaks that were caused by room nodes that I was getting, resulting in a squawky sound, but now it is so unbelievably better, almost perfect I'd say compared to how it has always sounded before that there is really no amount of money that could have brought it to its present level of smoothness and extention. I would have never thought that it would be possible to change the sound of my bottom end to this extent, believe me I've tried. The low frequencies are by far the hardest to get right, the BFD and the REW and my old trusty RS meter have transformed my system to such an extent that I still listen in awe each time I sit down, if there are low frequencies on the recording, they come out exactly as recorded, nothing more, nothing less.


----------



## Guest (Aug 29, 2006)

Same here, just bought the BFD1124P, Edirol UM-1X and midi cables.

Same deal, lights flash on the Edirol midi interface, the in/out on the BFD flashes a number of times, the preset changes to PA and the number selected in REW, store flashes... but nobodies home.


----------



## Guest (Aug 29, 2006)

One thought, have Behringer used some of the Midi protocols from the FBQ2496 which is confusing the DSP1124P?


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

JulianC4 said:


> One thought, have Behringer used some of the Midi protocols from the FBQ2496 which is confusing the DSP1124P?


The protocols are different, per the Behringer manuals and the units I have (they seem to like to use different prototcols for all their devices :coocoo. I suspect the problem is timing related, should be able to test that soon.


----------



## Hakka (Sep 10, 2006)

I have a BFD 1124p, REW and am about to order an Edirol Um1EX. Is there any way to tell if my BFD is gonna work with the Edirol MIDI cable? Are all the uniots that have had trouble from a particular batch?? What serial numbers are on the affected units??

I dont wanna spend $100 on the Edirol to find out it doesn't work.

Thanks.


----------



## Snookboy (Apr 28, 2006)

Hakka,

I assume you mean $100 on the Behringer as the midi interface isn't nearly that much. I don't think there is any way you are going to be able to tell in advance as noone has been able to determine the issue. I am having the same issue and I am quite convinced that it is not a user issue and there is something going on here. It is too simple a set up for this many people to be showing the same symptoms. I think your only choice is to sit on the sidelines and see if anyone figures it out or take your chances on the cost of the midi interface. Good luck whichever way you go!


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I think that 100 bucks is becuase he's in Australia.

There is definitely an issue with the newer units. We are hopeful that in the next update of REW it will be addressed. I have an older BFD and it works fine, the newer BFD it doesn't.


----------



## Hakka (Sep 10, 2006)

Yeah, as Sonny said I'm in Australia, RRP for the Edirol is $99 here, BFDs go for about $250 from memory. Our prices don't comnpare well to US prices.

I'll get the Edirol, If it doesn't work I'll just have to manually input filters until thge next REW release.

Harry.


----------



## Guest (Sep 22, 2006)

Does anyone have any updates on BFD bug?

I messed around with the Edirol UM-1 and the BFD and tried using the light driver option, set the advanced setting to both on and off, but no joy.

One observation is that the red save light starts flashing before the green in/out lights have finished (the midi interface is set to S1). Also the upload option in REW is grayed out, maybe because there's nothing to upload. It does show the UM-1 in both the "in" and "out" Comms menu.


----------



## conderscott (Sep 23, 2006)

I'm wondering about the update for the newer DSP1124 as well. I just bought one and have not been able to get REW to actually change the filters. The MIDI light on the BFD makes it look like things are happening, but nothing gets changed.

Any new info?


----------



## Guest (Nov 18, 2006)

Hi Guys

Its been a while since I've been here to check on the progress of the Midi interface problem with the 1124P and Room Eq Wizard auto transferring of the filter settings to the 1124P

Has anyone had any luck with the new 1124P units?

Does anyone know if Room Eq Wizard has been updated to solve this problem.

Has anyone found a sound card that may resolve this?

Thanks

Josh


----------



## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

This thread will bring you up to date. The fault is in the BFD, and REW cannot work around it...


----------

