# Flaws in my setup?



## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

What do you guys think? could the results be better?

The speakers left to right: Pioneer, Jamo S506, E680, E660, C605

From the computer to the jamo amp set to full range, out of the amp to the speaker. From the meter to a splitter, from the splitter to L/R line in.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

It's good to see the curves are so similar. 

When I was just trying to compare two "identical" front speakers, I found I had to be extremely careful about the positioning. Even with the two speakers positioned next to each other, moving the mic from in front of one to the other, I measured different results. To eliminate the effect of differences in the room environment from my measures, I had to leave the mic in one place, mark the spot on the floor for the speaker, and move each speaker to exactly the same place in front of the mic. That way the mic measured the same room effect in both measures. You may be seeing something like this in the dip at 600Hz in the Pioneer Tower. 

My guess is that the common dip at 160Hz-180Hz comes from a floor reflection, the mic being positioned near field as it is. 

Bill


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

When i was playing with everything in my room hooked to the pioneer i tried different hights. That stand wiill raise up with a crank and i thought if i put it infront of the tweeter more it would sound more trebble but i didnt really get much of a change i took readings at 3 different hights infront of the same speaker and the only thing that really made the most different was how loud the calibrate level was.

I made sure to turn the volume up for each one so that the start was always right on 75.db i tried going to 80 a few times but the curves were about spot on the same.

So you think the results would be alot closer if i put a mark on the floor and put the front of the speaker in the same spot?

I could try that but this thing doesnt seem to be quite that finiky. Least my setup doesnt seem to be. 

When you were testing your stuff did you use slow? i wonder if the slow setting im using gives a more average kind of slope?

What i was most suprised about was how little bass i got from that larger tower that has 2 8" drivers in it compared to the black on with the 2 6.5" that one was not what i expected.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

laser188139 said:


> It's good to see the curves are so similar.
> 
> When I was just trying to compare two "identical" front speakers, I found I had to be extremely careful about the positioning. Even with the two speakers positioned next to each other, moving the mic from in front of one to the other, I measured different results. To eliminate the effect of differences in the room environment from my measures, I had to leave the mic in one place, mark the spot on the floor for the speaker, and move each speaker to exactly the same place in front of the mic. That way the mic measured the same room effect in both measures. You may be seeing something like this in the dip at 600Hz in the Pioneer Tower.
> 
> ...


It is good to see how close they are, but then it kinda makes a mess of the readings making it hard too seperate. But one things is how close they all are.

Could i adjust the "room curve" to bring those dips more level? Would it be better if i had them on carpet? move them out of the corner? 

I used the corner because that where i normaly have my fronts positioned next to my screen.

I have not tried testing really far back, like say at the seating position.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

This is the most shocking thing about these tests to me. The size of the C605, and the size of the E680 and the size of speakers it has in it.

The C605 is a smaller over all speaker, with over all smaller drivers but it hangs so closely to the larger one with the 2 8" drivers. It is almost double the price but still it really packs a punch.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

BowerR64 said:


> ...
> So you think the results would be alot closer if i put a mark on the floor and put the front of the speaker in the same spot?
> 
> I could try that but this thing doesnt seem to be quite that finiky. Least my setup doesnt seem to be.
> ...


I don't know if it would make a lot of difference in your case. In mine, I was trying to verify the full range, using a calibrated mic, and I found differences in the high end from room effects. The best way for me to control the room influence was to leave the mic position unchanged and ensure the speakers were in exactly the same spot. You're right that this may not affect you at the lower frequency range where the RS meter is accurate. 



BowerR64 said:


> ... Could i adjust the "room curve" to bring those dips more level? Would it be better if i had them on carpet? move them out of the corner?
> 
> I used the corner because that where i normaly have my fronts positioned next to my screen.
> ...


You could indeed be measuring corner effects, I was just guessing about the floor reflection. I don't know how much of a difference carpet would make. 



BowerR64 said:


> ...
> What i was most suprised about was how little bass i got from that larger tower that has 2 8" drivers in it compared to the black on with the 2 6.5" that one was not what i expected.





BowerR64 said:


> This is the most shocking thing about these tests to me. The size of the C605, and the size of the E680 and the size of speakers it has in it.
> 
> The C605 is a smaller over all speaker, with over all smaller drivers but it hangs so closely to the larger one with the 2 8" drivers. It is almost double the price but still it really packs a punch.


I'm not an expert, but from what I've read the enclosure has a lot to do with the speaker frequency response; it's not just the size of the driver. The size of the drivers might also affect the sensitivity, the potential maximum power of the speaker, and the distortion.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

laser188139 said:


> I don't know if it would make a lot of difference in your case. In mine, I was trying to verify the full range, using a calibrated mic, and I found differences in the high end from room effects. The best way for me to control the room influence was to leave the mic position unchanged and ensure the speakers were in exactly the same spot. You're right that this may not affect you at the lower frequency range where the RS meter is accurate.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Im not either but i just always thought the larger drivers moved more air, i think the drivers in the C605 are 5 3/4" or somthing and the other has 2 8" i just thought i would see better readings in the bass is all.

The cabnet of the C605 is alot better, its braced better, thicker and has a TON of foam inside. I cant get the 680 apart to see inside it but it doesnt feel quite as dence. It is however $105. cheaper though.

I might have to do a few more tests further away, maybe away fromt he corner and see what changes.

Thanks for your help, its fun stuff. :R


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Just keep in mind that using the Radio shack meter means that readings above 3kHz are not going to be accurate.


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## Nuance (Nov 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Just keep in mind that using the Radio shack meter means that readings above 3kHz are not going to be accurate.


Bingo. Using something like the Behringer ECM8000 would provide much more useful results.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Well so far the plots im getting seem about as close as what i think i hear.

The 2 different jamo centers sounded very similar and they look near the same.

Then i think i can improve the midrange with my pioneer speaker so i put tape over the port. All i seem to hear is a decrease in the lower end wich wasnt much to begin with. I did however think it has a better high frequency then the stock one i was using (SCR400) wich sounded more laid back, or warm sounding.

The kenwood speakers i never listened to alot but now im curious to try these., i also have the matching bookshelf that goes with them and ill be testing them next. :clap:


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