# Albertan's HT Build



## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

This first post may be a little disjointed because, well, I'm sort of in the middle of my build as I start this thread. I had a new home built in 2008 and incorporated a dedicated HT room in my basement, which was finished when the house was built (the basement, not the HT room). I hired the local HT gurus in my town to wire the room and the rest of my house. After moving in, I had the projector and screen installed and then simply powered a Polk Audio soundbar to get things going. It worked, and other things took priority, such that I have never completed the setup. So now I am researching things again and trying to get the room finished for Fall. But after reading this and other forums, I think I may be taking a few steps back from where I am at now with the room to make some changes. So this thread will be both a build thread and a thread seeking advice as I contemplate what direction to go with my build. 

*As Built in 2008*

I had two choices for my HT. Originally I had planned on a larger space, but wound up using that for our home gym/recreation area. What I wound up with was a room 18'6" long, 12'3" wide, and 8'7" tall (I just measured it). After researching various sound treatments, I wound up going with QuietRock soundproofing drywall and sealer. The floor, rear wall, and left wall are all concrete. The roof, left wall, and front wall all have blown in insulation in the walls. The door is solid wood and has a foam surround to seal it. There is but one HVAC vent in the roof. I'm not sure if I went too far with the sound proofing, or if I should have more venting to improve acoustics. I plan on implementing bass traps and the like once I have everything more or less in place, although I hear electrostatic speakers don't really like them, so I need to do more research.

Regarding the electrical, although I can't recall why now, I had each plug in the room independently grounded shortly after moving in (in preparation to complete the room) and actually have an entire second breaker panel dedicated to my HT.










Interestingly enough, the receptacle in the roof wired by the original electrical contractor is dead. :huh: I've been dangling a cord down to a wall outlet for years, since the back row of seating doesn't get used much. 

Every conceivable (to me and the HT company at the time) AV wiring possibility was installed by the local HT company when the room was built. Everything was run into a small storage room underneath some stairs on the other side of the HT's left side wall. I'm going to have to have them back in to decipher everything, because it looks like a bird's nest to me.










I think that about covers the original "build" of the room. If I'm missing any information, let me know and I'll add it in.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

*As It Sits Today*

As mentioned, I ordered the seating I wanted (two rows of three recliners...probably a tight fit), had the projector and screen installed, and then left it because other things came along and actually it sounded pretty good. The owner of the audio shop I deal with was amazed how good it sounded actually, likely because I was the first person in my city to use QuietRock products. And maybe I lucked out a bit at the outset.

The pictures today show the room with a LCD TV on the stand. The HK receiver doesn't have enough HDMI inputs and the splitter box running to the projector is on the fritz. I happen to have a few nice TVs sitting around (long story) so I plunked one in the room temporarily. I've also pulled one of the sets of seating out in preparation to paint the roof and the front wall flat back, and perhaps begin work on the riser for the rear seats if it turns out I am ready to do that.

_Entrance to HT room and door to storage area under stairs for wiring and AV rack._










_Front wall_










_Left Wall_










_Rear Wall_










_Right Wall_










These pictures are with my Canon w/wide angle lens held up against the opposite walls, so I apologize that they are crooked. Also, the fisheye of the wide angle makes the room look a lot smaller than it really is. It's not a big room by any means, but having used it for the past couple of years, I'm glad I chose it over the larger space now. It's plenty big for our family.

More to come on my current plans in the morning. I'm tired after all this typing.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Thats looking great, its a good size room for theater


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

I don't see any speakers in the room, did they get removed in preparation for some changes?


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

fitzwaddle said:


> I don't see any speakers in the room, did they get removed in preparation for some changes?


I've been running the Polk Audio Soundbar off a small HK AVR135 amp. The cables for the surround speakers can be seen hanging out of the walls. Again, speakers and other equipment are here, on order, or soon to be ordered.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Thats looking great, its a good size room for theater


It is actually quite a nice size, although I wouldn't mind a little more width. But then I dont plan on having anything on the floor except the chairs, the sub, and the two EM-ESLs so I should have lots of room when finished.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

One more picture more or less to scale to show the rough layout. It's nothing fancy. The Martin Logan EM-ESLs need to be a fair distance off the front wall (I think I calculated 40", but will have to recheck that), so I may build a simple front riser with 2X6s to reduce potential traffic around them. Yesterday I moved the chairs around and settled on the back row 2' off the back wall and the front row 8' off the back wall. Does that sound reasonable? I know that puts the front seats close to the middle of the room, which is not ideal. I think when all is said and done, the rear seats up on the riser will be the seats of choice. Cheers.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

*Current Plans*

Listed below are my current plans for the room. If anyone has any suggestions or modifications, I'm all ears. 

*Rear Riser*

I ran the calculations and came up with 14.7" for the rear riser height. As shown in the picture below, I'll have a step on the left side, and  cut a step into the riser on the right side (not shown). 










*Front Risers/Stage*

I don't have a lot of room to get too fancy up front. But I do want to protect my floorstanders from traffic. So I think I'll try a fairly straightforward (for my journeyman carpenter father, not for me) two-tiered "stage" up front. The speakers will probably be built on risers employing 2X6s, with the second tier tying into the front wall perhaps utilizing 2X10s. I'm a little concerned about the floorstanders' 8" woofers thumping down onto the risers (the sub will be on the top one as well), but I think as long as it's built properly it shouldn't be a problem. I'm open to any thoughts on porting the risers as well, if it will be of benefit.

*Carpeting*

I'm quite happy with the carpet I have now, but I think I'll be ripping it out to place the risers. I think I'll reuse what I can for the rear riser and main area. For the front risers, I think I'll go to a lower pile black carpet as I did notice some light reflection off the current carpet in front of the LCD yesterday.

*Paint*

Again, I'm satisfied with the paint I have now in the room. It matches the rest of our house well, and it doesn't brighten up the room at all when we are using it. I did have black primer and paint mixed up yesterday, with the intention of painting the front wall and ceiling. I am concerned the black ceiling will make the room look smaller, but the white ceiling is an issue when using the projector, so I think black will win out. There are lots on nice ceiling treatments like soffits and star lights, but I just can't see myself going through the effort of employing them.

*Lighting*










I currently have three zones of lighting in the room. There are four pot lights in the roof, roughly under the rear row of seats and each floorstander. There are switched/zoned as a front pair and a rear pair. There are also five wall lights wired together on one switch. These I plan to switch out for wall sconces. I also plan to put each zone on a dimmer switch. Perimeter lighting will be incorporated into the risers. And finally, I may incorporate a Graphik Eye. I need to learn more about them as I just came across them on this site yesterday.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

As Tony said, that is a great space! My room is only about a foot wider, so I do not think that is narrow at all. 

I am going to break this down a bit so I can respond to specific questions - sorry if it is hard to follow.



Albertan said:


> One more picture more or less to scale to show the rough layout. It's nothing fancy. The Martin Logan EM-ESLs need to be a fair distance off the front wall (I think I calculated 40", but will have to recheck that), so I may build a simple front riser with 2X6s to reduce potential traffic around them. Yesterday I moved the chairs around and settled on the back row 2' off the back wall and the front row 8' off the back wall.
> Does that sound reasonable? I know that puts the front seats close to the middle of the room, which is not ideal. I think when all is said and done, the rear seats up on the riser will be the seats of choice. Cheers.


I do not remember the specific reason off the top of my head, but I do remember that you do want to keep your rear row off the back wall - pretty sure it has something to do with absorbtion / reflection. So, good call there. 

Also, Bryan from GIK told me early on in my build to avoid the 40-60% region of your room as this is where most of your room modes are. As long as your main seating is the back row, you should be set there as well.

6' between rows should leave plenty of room to recline while allowing people to walk through so the distance between rows should be solid.



Albertan said:


> *Current Plans*
> 
> Listed below are my current plans for the room. If anyone has any suggestions or modifications, I'm all ears.
> 
> ...


That looks like a good design to me - also, provided you have the clearance, having the higher riser will allow the rear row to recline while the front row doesn't - something that I wish I could get. If you are interested in using your rear riser for bass trapping, do a google search for "using riser as a bass trap" - I found several examples when I checked that out a couple months ago.



Albertan said:


> *Front Risers/Stage*
> 
> I don't have a lot of room to get too fancy up front. But I do want to protect my floorstanders from traffic. So I think I'll try a fairly straightforward (for my journeyman carpenter father, not for me) two-tiered "stage" up front. The speakers will probably be built on risers employing 2X6s, with the second tier tying into the front wall perhaps utilizing 2X10s. I'm a little concerned about the floorstanders' 8" woofers thumping down onto the risers (the sub will be on the top one as well), but I think as long as it's built properly it shouldn't be a problem. I'm open to any thoughts on porting the risers as well, if it will be of benefit.


Suggestion for adding mass to your front riser to reduce vibrations - line it with heavy duty plastic and fill it with sand. There are a couple builds here that have done it so you can see an example.



Albertan said:


> *Carpeting*
> 
> I'm quite happy with the carpet I have now, but I think I'll be ripping it out to place the risers. I think I'll reuse what I can for the rear riser and main area. For the front risers, I think I'll go to a lower pile black carpet as I did notice some light reflection off the current carpet in front of the LCD yesterday.


Good call IMO.



Albertan said:


> *Paint*
> 
> Again, I'm satisfied with the paint I have now in the room. It matches the rest of our house well, and it doesn't brighten up the room at all when we are using it. I did have black primer and paint mixed up yesterday, with the intention of painting the front wall and ceiling. I am concerned the black ceiling will make the room look smaller, but the white ceiling is an issue when using the projector, so I think black will win out. There are lots on nice ceiling treatments like soffits and star lights, but I just can't see myself going through the effort of employing them.


I have my ceiling and front wall painted black right now, and I did not get the feeling that the room shrank after I did it so I think you would be OK with black - it really does significantly reduce the light refraction.

As far as soffits or a star ceiling, that is always something you can do later. Prof just re-did his soffits and they turned out really well - and he did them well after the room had been finished.



Albertan said:


> *Lighting*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If you have any questions on the Grafik Eye, let me know. I had several for raZorTT when I started mine, so I probably asked many questions you might have. 

Lastly, make sure to enjoy yourself - it really has been a fun ride for me so far doing mine!


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

All great info. Thanks! I had been using the front row as my preferential seating, mostly because I don't have a riser for the rear seats yet. After pulling one set of seats out and sitting where the rears will be I like that distance from the screen better anyways. So its a win win. The Pallisers in the front row will still fully recline no problem. Walking space on the rear riser will be tight when the back seats are reclined though. 

I like the sand idea for the front riser. We actually discussed doing the same thing in my walls during the initial design phase. And thanks for the reassurance with the black ceiling and front wall. maybe I'll go prime the ceiling tonight.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

The room needs acoustic treatments to get the best audio..I didn't see it mentioned in your plans! Are you planning to do this also?


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Yes I am. I haven't figured it out yet since my preliminary research indicated the MLs don't like bass traps. Do you have any recommendations? I'd also like another opinion on Ted's recommendation in this if you have a moment. Cheers.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

That will depend on whether you plan to make them yourself or buy commercially available units..
If the latter..then BPape of GIK Acoustics is the one to speak to about that..

I can't comment on Ted's recommendations as it's not my field of expertise..but I would suggest you follow his recommendations as he's the expert in this area..


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Done and done. Thanks.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The items you need to address for the basics are broadband bass control and side wall reflection control. The thicker the better for the most part. The rear wall behind the seating is also a prime place for bass control but with some sort of facing on it preferably to limit upper mid and high frequency absorption.

The front wall is a quandry. Normally for HT, you'd want the front wall 100% dead to address reflections from the surrounds contaminating the front soundstage. With dipoles like the ML's you have a choice of addressing the rear wave with absorption or diffusion. Many use a mix of diffusion behind the panels for a more spacious sound and dealing with the comb filtering from the rear energy coupled with absorption on the balance of the wall.

Bryan


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

OK Bryan, you pretty much lost me there. If you could recommend some of your products to deal with these potential issues here or by PM it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your help.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Front corners - stacked Tri traps or stacked Soffit Traps. Doesn't appear to be much room for much else between those edges and the screen. I would DIY the rest of the front wall with 703 or equivalent covered in black GOM fabric for help not only with reflections but also with better video contrast.

242 or 244 panels - 3 each side for reflections. 244's preferred.

We have a new product that's not on the website yet that would be perfect for the rear wall. Similar to a Monster but more of a facing on it so it basically works up to about 150Hz. In the back, that's really what we want is some more bass control to help with cancellations as well as help with sitting so close to the back wall while not overdoing the mid/high frequency absorption in the surround field.

Bryan


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks Bryan. I've filled out the GIK Acoustics Form on your site to have someone put together a package for me. Cheers.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

I've spent most of the past week shopping for components. With that out of the way, I finally found my way back into the basement to paint the front wall and ceiling flat black.

*BEFORE*










*AFTER*










Sorry for the after photo...the good camera is at work at the moment. With the pot lights off the walls all look the same color, and I thought I was going to have to repaint the side and rear walls. Fortunately it looks better with the pot lights back in (waiting for their fixtures to dry). The fancy frog tape I used still allowed some paint bleed so I might be repainting the other walls anyways for some sharper lines...I hate painting. 

On a happier note, Bryan hooked me up with the full meal deal from GIK Acoustics, so hopefully that will arrive before too long. I'm also finalizing a pallet shipment with Ted at Soundproofing Company Inc. for some acoustic mats and other odds and ends. Both businesses were located though this forum after both gentlemen helped me out. Chalk another one up for The Shack. :clap:

New sconces are in. I'm not 100% sure about them, but hope to mount them in the next couple of days and make a final decision. And finally, the original installer is coming to label all my wires tomorrow morning. Then I'll have more freedom with who I have finish the install. That's all for now.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Albertan said:


> I've spent most of the past week shopping for components. With that out of the way, I finally found my way back into the basement to paint the front wall and ceiling flat black.
> 
> *BEFORE*
> 
> ...


Looks great Dean! :T I think you will notice a real difference in your picture with the reduction in light refraction.

Are the acoustic mats for use under your riser? If so, I am really interested to hear how you think they perform as I did a little research early on on risers and was not sure what I would use there.

Any pics of the new sconces? :bigsmile:


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

The front stage will be built directly on the concrete slab. The remainder of the floor, including the rear riser, will be built on the acoustic mat.

I hope to install the sconces tonight. I'll put a picture up then. Maybe I'll even remember to bring the good camera home. :bigsmile:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Are you putting the acoustic mat down first and then covering it with an underlayment? I would love to be able to use this, but I have had water in the basement in the past which has caused me to plan for Dri-Core.

If I put Dri-core down, then the acoustic mat with covering, that is a fair bit of height to lose.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Joe, you can read about my flooring in this thread. But yeah, basically, the Serenity Mat will be laid right on the slab. And even in my situation I will be losing more height that I would like. I may have to plane the bottom of the door to the room, or go with carpet right over the mat around the door so that it will still swing properly.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

More work today. I spent (literally) some time with the HT company today working on getting the room ready for the equipment. They labelled all the wires since it had been a few years since they were installed. We discussed terminating the wires hanging out of the walls and I settled on some high end in-wall terminators for the speaker cables, and some high end in-wall power conditioning units. I have separate surge protection/line conditioning in the rack room, but these seemed to be the best insurance for my speakers in the HT room itelf. 



















Before I really got into this whole home theater thing, I knew the sky was the limit for high end AV gear. Now I've learned that the sky is the limit just building the actual room. Including my soundproofing, acoustic treatments, and HT-specific wiring, I'm pretty sure I'm approaching $10,000 in the room itself. I shudder to think what some of the really beautiful rooms you see on sites like this cost. :spend:

Oh, and I got something else for the electrician to install before the HT guys return...


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

On to slightly more mundane things, I managed to replace my on wall light fixtures this evening. Nothing too fancy, but I like them a lot better than the goofy fixtures the contractor put in when the house was built.

All of my wall boxes were treated with QuietSeal Pro and QuietPutty. You can see how well sealed everything is...










And a couple of pictures of the new sconces (rectangular on the right) vs. the original fixtures...



















I really like the look of the sconces. They look more like something you would see in the theatre. And, most importantly, the wife agreed. :T Surprisingly, I think the sconces with their little 60W chandelier bulbs are brighter than the original fixtures. That will give the Graphik Eye a little more range of room brightness to work with. Cheers.


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## jgourlie (Jun 16, 2012)

Dang that is some really nice loot right there....I think you will be pleased with all of it!!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Nice choice on the sconces Dean - where did you end up getting them?

Oh, and how many zones does that Lutron unit control?


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

I picked up the sconces from Home Depot after looking around at local stores and online. I think they were $55 or so. 










The Graphik Eye controls four zones I believe. I'll only be using three. No remote with it as they usually program a universal remote to run it.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If you are interested, you could set yourself up to control your entire system from an iPad - that includes the Grafik Eye. This is what I am planning to do, and I know 2 others that use it and have been pleased with it.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Absolutely. What app are you using?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

It is called iRule - you can actually use it on an iPod / iPhone as well. Very handy if you have an iPhone, are away from home, and someone wants to watch a movie but cannot figure out how to get it going.

It allows for the creation of events - you can push one button and have the lights dim, the equipment come on, and your curtains open. I don't have a lot of experience with it yet, but Simon (raZorTT) has been using it for some time. In order to use it, you would need a unit from Global Cache that is used to connection all your IR devices to the network.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

I'll look into it. Thanks Joe. :T


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Not a lot to report in the room, as I spent the weekend at the lake. I have friends coming over in a bit to help get the rack into the basement. Then I can start putting my new toys on their shelves. All the big pieces have arrived.


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## jgourlie (Jun 16, 2012)

Is that a syclone I see there??????


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

jgourlie said:


> Is that a syclone I see there??????


Indeed. 760HP/900TQ.


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## jgourlie (Jun 16, 2012)

Albertan said:


> Indeed. 760HP/900TQ.


I have seen it before at the syty nat's in Edmonton...love your truck!!!

I was also there when it was on the dyno at Cambell's....I had my Sonoma on nitrous there that day.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Small world! That truck has spent a lot of time at Campbells/Moretto Motorports. Nolan is a good friend of mine.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

I haven't done a lot with the theater room as I'm trying to get a 1300 ft² shop build this Summer as well. That and I was waiting for the carpentry work (stage and riser) to be completed. My Dad's back in a couple of weeks with the materials for the back riser pre-cut. So the install should be fairly straightforward. I decided to continue with setting things up so that I can complete the wiring and electrical, and finally start breaking the system in. I think I'm at the stage now where room setup is pretty much complete aside from levelling some acoustical panels and installing new carpet once the rear riser is in. I've decided not to go with a front stage..there's not a lot of room and the front speakers should be adequately far from the front row seating. I think I measured 7' from the center seat. Anyways, some pictures...



















I'm not sure which position will work better for the rear speakers so I mounted them in the rear corners and on the back wall. I'll have to sound test them once in. Exhaustive reading on the internet was inconclusive. If anyone has any feedback, I'm all ears as nothing is set in stone yet. Back to wiring this beast so the AV guys can come finish it in the next few days.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

That is really coming together :T
One of these days Im going to have to redo my room so it looks better.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I would try to get a little more spacing on the mains in terms of spreading them out. For the rear surrounds, we'd like to get them symmetric. Move the one in the corner to be above the sconce like the other one.

Coming along!

Bryan


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

bpape said:


> I would try to get a little more spacing on the mains in terms of spreading them out. For the rear surrounds, we'd like to get them symmetric. Move the one in the corner to be above the sconce like the other one.
> 
> Coming along!
> 
> Bryan


That's two feet off the side walls on the mains right now Bryan. What would you suggest? Any concerns about the electrostats firing backwards onto the soffit traps?

WRT to the back wall, the notch behind the door throws things off, which is why the corner mounts are not 100% symmetrical. The sconces are however symmetrical, which is why I mounted the wall mounts directly above them...well that and space constraints. 

EDIT:I wouldn't run the rears like they are setup right now. It would either be both in the corners or both above the sconces.

Do the acoustic treatments look OK? I don't think lights were factored in during the consult, so I had to rationalize things during install. On the back wall, the rear seats should cover the bottom 3" of the treatments once the riser is in. On the side walls, I think I have covers first reflections points while still keeping things symmetrical. Thanks for your feedback. I'm very happy with your products! :T


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Confused. The picture I see shows them one higher than the other?

On the fronts, it's a tradeoff. No, don't really want them closer to the wall but they're too close for a good soundstage at your seating position. Maybe move them another 6-8" out on each one.

I would also spread out the side panels a bit.

Bryan


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I think that both positions have been set-up so that they can both go over the sconces or both be corner mounted - pretty sure I can see the mounts there on the wall.

I am in agreement with Bryan on the spacing for the fronts- I also think having them too close together will really diminish your soundstage.

Looking great Dean - and a 1300 ft shop?! SOOOOO jealous! :clap:


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks guys. Yeah Bryan, I have two potential mounting locations for each rear speaker. In the photo shown, one is mounted in one position and the other is in the different position.

I'll probably just order a couple of 242s to put one on the back of the door and one across from it. Or would that be too much room treatment? Thanks again for the feedback.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Looking good...no shortage of sound in that room


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Coming along very nicely indeed


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## MarAgt (Dec 1, 2011)

Coming along really nice!


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

Thanks for the compliments and feedback. I hope to be making some noise with the system by the end of the week to start breaking it in. Looks like I'll be staying with the current screen size. Much larger and the fronts will be in the way for the front row seats.


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## Albertan (Jun 16, 2012)

I haven't posted on The Shack in a while, as other things have been keeping me busy. It's only last week that I finally got the room more or less finished. I still have to dial the system in (way too much bass at the moment) and there are lots of little things left to do. But it's functional now. Overall, I'm very happy with it and the help I received here that helped with my design. Even my kids did a double take the first time they walked into it, so I must have done something right. The flash is really bright and washed the pictures out quite a bit...it's a very warm, cozy room in person. And does it pound even with only one sub! Sorry for the dirty camera lens. Cheers.




























PS - I'm still open to any speaker placement tips, or any other recommendations based on the pictures. Thanks again.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

That looks great Dean! Thanks for posting pics!


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Nicely done....I bet its a joy to sit back and relax now.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Dean, the room looks awesome. I'd love to chill out and watch movies in there,it really does look very cozy!

Have you tried moving the front sub a little closer to the centre of the front wall? Taking away some of the corner loading might help to tone down the bass a bit.


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## Cam55 (Jan 23, 2013)

Could you provide the 2 paint colors you used. Great job on the room!!!!


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