# Any opinions the Belkin PF-60??



## cruzmisl

Hi All,
Thinking of getting this. Any thoughs, good bad or otherwise?

http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=178925

Thanks,
Joe


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## JCD

I can't remember the arguments for and against, but the fuzzy memory I have with power conditioners like this one is that they're overkill. It seems like most of the recommendations were to get a Tripp Lite iso-bar like this one.

JCD


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## MatrixDweller

This might be a little late...

I have a PF31. It's not bad, but I wish I had gone a bit bigger like the PF60. The PF60 has assignable outlets that turn off via the trigger out. The PF31 doesn't have that and if I use the outlets the way they are labeled (supposedly there is a special filter on certain outlets) when the AV Receiver's trigger fires it cuts the power to itself and all other high current devices. The result being that you then have to manually go up to the PF31 and power it on again.

Another thing i don't like about the PF31 is that the front panel is plastic. I scratched mine by mistake when taking another compnent out and it scratched the paint off and left a gouge. The plastic under the paint is off white so it's not too noticable from a distance but very apparent close up.

I did notice a slight difference in the way my system sounded after I hooked it up. The bass was improved the most I think. PQ on my cheap DVD player at the time was also improved. I attribute that to it's cheap-o power transformer.

If I had of done my research, I would have saved up and bought something that has battery backup as well. Power sags or brownout are not a problem then. Of course I would have had to save up a bit more to get one that reproduces a sine wave rather than a squared wave.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

> If I had of done my research, I would have saved up and bought something that has battery backup as well. Power sags or brownout are not a problem then.


Actually, all the battery back up does keep everything on if there is a blackout. For protection from low-power service, you need a power regulator, something like this:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/prod...oner?sku=181119&src=3WFRWXX&CAWELAID=26019147

Regards,
Wayne


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## MatrixDweller

For sure...the PF31 was 1/3 the price of that though. If I had the coin I'd probably go with Panamax.

http://www.panamax.com/Products/A-V-Components/M1500-UPS.aspx


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## cruzmisl

I'm liking the APC one now.......

http://www.amsound2.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=420


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## MatrixDweller

I think the PF60 is a big step up from that one.

I'd still consider Furman or Panamax over APC or Belkin. The M4300-PM is highly regarded. The downlights are pretty cool too. If you need more outlets then the M5100-PM is a step up. The M5400-PM is probably the closest in spec to the PF60 however.


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## Big Worm

I have the PF60. It is a solid unit built extremely well. I don't notice any difference with it than without. But for about 200 bucks I wanted to have nice protection. I would easily recommend it to anybody looking for a unit like it.


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## MatrixDweller

$200!!!

Where did you socre it for that? I paid $230 shipped for my PF31 shipped about a year ago thorugh the Dell employee purchase plan (my company's parent company gets us deals). I would have gone a different route if I didn't think I was getting deal. I guess I should have shopped where you shop.


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## Big Worm

MatrixDweller said:


> $200!!!
> 
> Where did you socre it for that? I paid $230 shipped for my PF31 shipped about a year ago thorugh the Dell employee purchase plan (my company's parent company gets us deals). I would have gone a different route if I didn't think I was getting deal. I guess I should have shopped where you shop.


Bought mine a year ago through ecost. You can still get it for that price. Amazon in fact has it listed for $199.


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## cruzmisl

MatrixDweller said:


> I think the PF60 is a big step up from that one.
> 
> I'd still consider Furman or Panamax over APC or Belkin. The M4300-PM is highly regarded. The downlights are pretty cool too. If you need more outlets then the M5100-PM is a step up. The M5400-PM is probably the closest in spec to the PF60 however.


That's interesting. Everyone I've spoken to has a high regard for APC products....

The similar Panamax is twice the price of the APC unit


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## MatrixDweller

Looking at the prices on the Shack Store for the PureAV stuff I'd say that a combination of a PF60 and their Home Theater Battery Backup model (AP30800fc10) would be pretty awesome. You could get both in black for $330 total. That would give you the advanced power filtration of the PF60 and the UPS capabilities of the other. The PF60 in my opinion trumps the APC unit in quality and in price.

I have used the front outlet on my PF31 quite a bit. It's handy for plugging a video camera or a borrowed/rented game system without having to pull everything out of the cabinet.


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## cruzmisl

MatrixDweller said:


> The PF60 in my opinion trumps the APC unit in quality and in price.


I asked a company that sells both which they would buy and they told me the APC. Not sure why, maybe higher makup with the APC or it could really be better. Have you owned both? Prices are similar but why do you rate the quality of the PF60 better? Just trying to make an informed decision.
Thanks.


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## Kal Rubinson

MatrixDweller said:


> Looking at the prices on the Shack Store for the PureAV stuff I'd say that a combination of a PF60 and their Home Theater Battery Backup model (AP30800fc10) would be pretty awesome. You could get both in black for $330 total. That would give you the advanced power filtration of the PF60 and the UPS capabilities of the other. The PF60 in my opinion trumps the APC unit in quality and in price.
> 
> I have used the front outlet on my PF31 quite a bit. It's handy for plugging a video camera or a borrowed/rented game system without having to pull everything out of the cabinet.


I had the AP30800fc10 for a while and it did its job but it hummed all the time, more when on battery and lots when powered up. Belkin told me this is normal. The APC S-15 I have now is dead silent except in test mode. FWIW.

Kal


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## MatrixDweller

Most large battery backups will hum a bit I've found. I've used APC battery backups in the computer field for quite some time. They are pretty good and reliable for the most part.

The reasons why I like the PF60 over the APC equivalent are:
1) Price: The PF60 on the Shack Store is around $200. Last year it was selling for over $400.
2) Styling: The LCD panel on the front of the PF60 is more aesthetically pleasing. It uses smoothed fonts rather than blocky LCD text.
3) Inclusion of a front outlet on the PF60 is very handy
4) The PF60 uses what they refer to as 6 phase filtering. The more linear phases the smoother and more symmetric the output voltage is. The APC doesn't mention its technology.
5) Programmable outlets on the PF60 mean you can use the trigger out of your AVR to cut power to certain items, like your subwoofer or amps. Very handy for subs because then you don't need to use the subs auto or manual on/off feature.


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## Kal Rubinson

MatrixDweller said:


> Most large battery backups will hum a bit I've found. I've used APC battery backups in the computer field for quite some time. They are pretty good and reliable for the most part.
> 
> The reasons why I like the PF60 over the APC equivalent are:
> 1) Price: The PF60 on the Shack Store is around $200. Last year it was selling for over $400.
> 2) Styling: The LCD panel on the front of the PF60 is more aesthetically pleasing. It uses smoothed fonts rather than blocky LCD text.
> 3) Inclusion of a front outlet on the PF60 is very handy
> 4) The PF60 uses what they refer to as 6 phase filtering. The more linear phases the smoother and more symmetric the output voltage is. The APC doesn't mention its technology.
> 5) Programmable outlets on the PF60 mean you can use the trigger out of your AVR to cut power to certain items, like your subwoofer or amps. Very handy for subs because then you don't need to use the subs auto or manual on/off feature.


Depends on which APC you are talking about. My S-15s have sine-wave output and automatic voltage regulation. I do not think that the PF60 is competitive (except in price).

Kal


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## MatrixDweller

I think the one in question is the H15. AVR is good, but how it reassembles the sine wave is the main factor in a power conditioner's performance. There isn't much data via the net in that regard though. Some reviews say that power conditioners provide no benefit other than surge suppression.

So if given that each unit performs the same the choice would have to me made on styling and features (coolness factor). I personally like the front display and overall design of the PF60 better, but that's only my personal preference.

I might have to eat my words though because I heard that Rotel's power conditioners, the RLC-1040 and RLC-1080 are based on the H15 and S15 respectively. I think it would still boil down to styling.

I found this link. It's an advertisement for PurePower's conditioner but it has some nice info on it.

http://www.purepoweraps.com/gremlins.htm


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