# 2010 Ford F-150 Platinum - System Upgrade Install



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

You would think at 50 years old I would grow out of the DIY car audio installs and either be happy with the factory system or at least let a car audio shop do it for me. But no... I just can't leave it alone. I guess is makes me feel younger piddlin' around with it.

I have a 2010 F-150 Platinum Supercrew with the Sony system, Nav and SYNC. I will keep the factory head unit and replace the front speakers... as well as take the factory sub out and install dual 10's.

EDIT: Final install will include:


Factory Nav System with Sync
JBL MS-8 OEM Integration Processor
JL Audio HD900/5 Amp (Active on Fronts)
Hertz HSK-163 (3-Way Comps)
Factory Rear Door Speakers
Dual Sundown Audio SD-2 10" D4 Subwoofers (Custom Box)

I haven't long installed a system in my 07 Explorer Sport Trac, which I will be selling before too much longer. From that system I have a JL Audio HD900/5 amp and one Sundown SD-2 10 D4 subwoofer, of which I have ordered another to have dual 10's. I left Massive CK6 components in the ST because of the modification I had to do to install them ... and I want to try something different in the Platinum.

The JBL MS-8 OEM integration processor is on its way. I got it from Harman Audio (remanufactured). 











Here are some preliminary pics of what I have to deal with...

I think I can tap into the current battery terminal with no issues... but will add another ground wire.











Ford conveniently placed a grommet pass-thru in the firewall behind the glove box where the power wire will be easy enough to fish thru. I already have a short wire passed thru for testing.




















Factory subwoofer to be removed.











I plan to take pics as I progress, which will probably be a slow process due to my work schedule and having to use my truck for work.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I have some Dynamat Extreme for the doors and wanted to see what I have to deal with in the door speakers. Ford aligned them with the opening pretty well. Here is a shot of the 5 x 7 with the grill off.




















There is not as much depth as I thought, although I do have about 1" between the door metal and the door panel to help out. The problem will be the diameter of the speaker magnet if it gets over about 2.5" deep. I can gain about a half inch by adding a plate between the metal door and the speaker. Of course if I use 6.5" speakers instead of 5 x 7's, I may be able to move the speaker over a bit to be sure to miss that window track bar.











Taking the SONY emblem off is not a big issue, but it does leave three tiny holes in the the speaker grill to deal with.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Here is where it will get somewhat challenging. I would prefer to use the factory tweeter locations, although there is room on the door to place them.... it makes more sense to keep it looking factory up front. 











There are just a limited number of tweeters out there that will work... thus far a limit of one that I can find. The JL Audio C5 series has a tweeter that I believe will work perfectly... and I prefer a soft dome. It should fit the hole and overlap just enough.




















The only issue at this point is the mid-bass of the C5 series. I remember using the JL Audio XR570CSi model way back in my 03 F150 Supercrew and I know I liked the highs, but it seems I remember the mid-bass being a tad on the shy side. I may be a bit spoiled with the mid-bass of the Massive CK6 speakers I have in the ST. Yet... I would think JL has come a ways with their speakers in nearly 10 years. I would think the C5-570 or C5-650 would be improved.

There is also the option to just purchase the JL Audio tweeters ... C5-075ct ... and find a suitable mid-bass driver with a lower Fs and Qts. That opens up the options to use some of the DIY home speakers for the mid-bass in the doors. I could also take out the Massive CK6 mid-bass drivers in the 07 ST and stick something cheap in there since those are now powered by the head unit. Use the CK6 mid-bass and JL tweets. :bigsmile:


So at this point... it is really coming down to what to get for the front speakers and trying to fit the tweeters in the factory location.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I have settled on going with a 3-way setup in the front using Hertz Hi-Energy HSK-163 speakers. Mids will be mounted in the window sail. The tweeters in this setup should fit even better than the JL Audio set. This will be an active/passive setup. Active between the midbass and mid/highs, which will be on the included passive crossover.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Sub box is built.

The box volume is currently .637ft³ gross... 477ft³ net (subtracting .08ft³ each for driver displacement).

If my calculations are right with polyfill:

.5lbs = 10% increase in 1ft³
.5lbs = 20% increase in .5ft³
.75lbs = 30% increase in .5ft³
1lb = 40% increase in .5ft³
I will add .75lbs (12oz) to get the box from .477 to .620 (estimating about a 30% increase in volume)... or about .31ft³ net volume per sub. There might be a slightly higher increase since the box is a tad smaller than .5ft³.

The dual sub setup is going to be very limited in box volume, yet the single sub I had in the 07 ST sounded pretty good in a .31ft³ box gross volume (.23ft³ net) and stuffed with polyfill... although I am not sure how much polyfill I had in it. My thinking is I will have a little more volume per sub in this box, so it should extend a little lower in the frequency range. It probably won't be all that noticeable... and I am not sure a 3db increase in SPL by doubling the sub drivers will make that much difference either, but I will see what it does and go from there.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I got the mids and tweets installed today... and the speaker wire ran to the mid, which was no easy task.

Ford has the neat little plug for the door wiring that snaps into the door jam.










So... I drilled a small hole on the back side of the connectors and fished the speaker wire through. I used a nylon rod I have for fishing. There is a large rubber grommet/cover on the inside that already has a bundle of wires passing through it, so I fished the rod through the drill hole and finessed my way through the grommet, then pulled my speaker wire through... and then fished it through the door harness cover and on up to the mid.





























Cutting the hole out for the midrange required cutting part of the window vent. Not a real big deal and it doesn't look super nice and neat, but it will work. I covered the cutout part of the vent with Gorilla tape and a small piece of Dynamat. This gave me plenty of room to mount the mid.





























Attention Hertz... what is the deal with only giving me 4 screws for the midrange drivers? I need 8... and preferably 8 of the same size/type. You gave me 4 that were right... and 4 that would work, but they don't match. I don't think anyone will notice them and start comparing, but com'on... where is QC in packing? Always toss in more than we need, don't short change us.











And the mid/tweets are mounted. I ain't crazy about the black grills, but I can live with it, provided they end up sounding good.











The MS-8 is being replaced after two tries with a refurbished model, both looked terrible... like they were in the rear floorboard of a car for six months with someone stepping all over them. Harman agreed to replace the second one with a new one at no extra charge... first class of them. I should have it by first of next week and will be able to get some noise in this ride by the next weekend or so. Bama plays Michigan on 9/1 ... so I probably won't get to work on it and finish it up until after that game.


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## Matt34 (Oct 20, 2006)

I heard those Hertz last summer for the first time. Was really impressed at how clean they were even when pressed to some insane levels.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am looking forward to hearing them. This is the first time I have ever installed a 3-way setup.


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## schmiddr2 (Aug 25, 2012)

Was checking this out over on diyma, looks great. Very detail oriented and shows your skills.

Have you considered full active? An XD200/2 could be hid most anywhere. Any plans for an RTA?


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## Jstslamd (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm interested to hear what you think of the sd subs. I have one of those 10's for my tundra that I won from sundowns give away. I'm just waiting to put the money together for the other components that I need.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

schmiddr2 said:


> Was checking this out over on diyma, looks great. Very detail oriented and shows your skills.
> 
> Have you considered full active? An XD200/2 could be hid most anywhere. Any plans for an RTA?


Thanks, but my skills are puny compared to most of those guys over there. 

I may eventually go full active. I will have to find somewhere to mount that extra amp. My first thoughts have been to add the center, which would be with an XD200/2 bridged. The problem is finding a single HL70, HT25 and an extra crossover. I could go active with the center, but then I'll have to run the rears in parallel, as I only have 8 channels. 4 for the fronts, 1 for the sub, 2 for the rears, and 1 extra, which would be for the center, but it would have to be passive. 

At this point there is no plans for an RTA, not past hooking up my computer and REW.




Jstslamd said:


> I'm interested to hear what you think of the sd subs. I have one of those 10's for my tundra that I won from sundowns give away. I'm just waiting to put the money together for the other components that I need.


I had one of them in a .31ft³ box with polyfill... running off the sub channel of the HD900/5 in my 07 Sport Trac and it sounded awesome. I was very pleased. Having two won't make a lot of difference, but it should give me about a 3db gain in SPL, although some of that might be sacrificed with a slightly larger box, which should result in a little lower range. It will be interesting to see how it sounds with the two in this larger cab.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Got the midbass installed...





















Sub enclosure is covered, subs installed and ready to hook up...


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I finally got this finished up yesterday... although I want to tinker with the settings on the MS-8 some more. I am very very impressed by the overall sound, however it might be missing just a little bit of low-end extension. 

Being able to listen to processed and unprocessed sound with the MS-8 and a press of a button is pretty neat... and the difference is startling good. The Hertz speakers are remarkable. The guy that helps me during the week thought it had sparkling clarity... extremely clean sounding.

Final pics... 

The factory Sony amp in underneath the console, which is reasonably easy to remove. Fishing the wires from the amp to the rear was a bit of a challenge.





























I found these 1 foot RCA cables at Have, Inc. I searched forever trying to find some quality cables at a reasonable price. These are well built and fairly inexpensive.











I still have to tidy up the wiring.




























I will also probably end up enlarging the sub box a bit to get a little better extension. My first design was to place the MS-8 on one side and the JL Audio amp on the other, so I could only make the sub box a certain width. After building the sub box I realized I could build an amp rack and stack the amps... so I have some extra space for more sub box volume... which I believe will help. I also think I can get those subs up off the floor another half inch or so.


I will lodge a design complaint about the MS-8. I know they must have been cramped for room, but having all these wires on the front and back basically make it undesirable for public mounting. I would rather have had connections like the JL Audio, where you can input your own wire into the connector, screw it down and then plug it in, instead of pre-mounted wires on the connectors. There just isn't much you can do with them... and you have the Input wires on one side and the Output wires on the other, so you have to deal with them regardless of which way you turn the unit. I don't know exactly what the design answer is and I understand you can't please everyone, but it seems like there just wasn't much thought put into it. None the less, I will obviously live with it, because it does an incredible job with the sound, thereby making the pros outweigh the cons. I suppose sound trumps looks in this case.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Wow! That's a lot of trim pieces! I am comfortable working on cars, but man, I don't think working on interiors is my life calling. Any time I've done anything with trim I manage to break some plastic tab or critical doohickey. I think I'll stick to working on stuff under the hood...

Kudos for working with such tight spaces and components! I'm sure Ford engineers are shaking their fist at you for your blatant disregard for their design!

That is definitely a strange design to have the input and output on the opposite sides of the unit.:huh:


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## ambesolman (Apr 25, 2011)

Very nice and clean install. Wish I had your skills as I've always wanted to learn car audio installation. Sure would've saved me a lot of money over the years! 
I was told that Hertz is a sister company of Focal. Any idea if this is true? I have a couple of sets of Focals from my old S4 that I'd like to put in my next car but it'll have to wait til I get another ride. Well done.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Very nice looking Sonnie. I'm sure it sounds great. I also wish I had those install skills but it's nice having friends that can do that stuff. I might be able to tear it apart but I'd never be able to put it back together. I did check out those Hertz speakers and they look and sound very nice.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Thanks guys... Ford is not so bad when it comes to taking stuff apart and being subject to breaking. Their door panels are some of the easiest I have ever dealt with over the years.

I am not sure about Hertz being sister to Focal. I know Audison has something to do with them and are related in some fashion.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonnie: On the MS-8, is it possible to select the AUX input without using the LCD screen?

I have a JL Cleensweep in my Town Car factory system with an outboard amp. It made a lot of difference, but has no measurement feature - it only fixes the factory "tweaking" of the FR in the HU. It does have an AUX input that can be engaged by a push of the amp gain control, which I mounted in the cupholder space. I use the AUX in for iPod. I have the AUX input adapter for the factory HU, but it is distorted and has limited FR, even with the Cleensweep.

Wondering if it is worth replacing the JL with the MS-8. I had planned on replacing the HU, but after looking at a few reviews of even $1K aftermarket ones, I find the same problems that drove me away from aftermarket years ago - dim displays, lockups, etc. So, I just may fix up the factory system some more.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I don't think there would be a way to select it without the display, which would be aggravating unless you plan to mount it somewhere... and still then you would have to make a few presses on the remote to make the selection. I ran my display wire up through my center console and keep it plugged in and in the console in case I need it, which I shouldn't, but to maybe tinker around a bit all along.

The thing I really like about this MS-8 is the apparent accuracy it has in making the vehicle sound good... having its own auto-EQ system. I say apparent, because the difference between active and non-active sounds so good, yet I have not measured anything. The difference is so dramatic that I cannot help but to believe it is doing it right.

The idea with the headphone mic is just silly brilliant. Audyssey needs to take note here. I do something similar when I set my system in my home theater... placing the mic at my left ear, taking a measurement, then right ear, taking a measurement. The ear is where the mic should be and having it on both ears and I assume summing the two readings seems to be the ticket for proper measurements. I have always felt like you should be in your listening position when taking measurements. Harman actually recommends it with the MS-8. With the headphone mic on... sitting in the drivers seat looking straight forward taking a measurement with tone pulse then a sweep. Then look at the drivers side mirror, take another measurement, then look at the passenger side mirror, take another measurement. Then if you want have someone else sit in the passenger seat and wear the headphones and take three more measurements. Now you can switch listening setups between driver only, passenger only or front, which is a setup for both front seat listeners. It is truly an amazing system and I think they pretty much have worked all the bugs out of it too.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks for the info, sounds like a great unit. But, having to go thru menus to get to the AUX input tarnishes it a little for me. With the JL, I use the direct-to-amp feature for the iPod, then the processed signal for the CD-6 head unit. I guess I could convert to line out in the dash instead of the trunk and switch line level between the two. 

Too bad the Ford HU distorts the AUX input. I have a PIE converter that ties to the SAT input on the HU. I had Sirius installed for a couple of years, but got tired of the poor SQ and drop outs with all the trees (plus paying for that Stern fellow). So, I took it out and put the AUX converter in its place. Switching to SAT on the HU switches to the AUX input, but even with the iPod at 50% volume I can hear distortion.

I am not spending that much time in the car now anyway since I retired, so I suppose it is not worth putting much effort into improving the sound system.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

You think it is the Aux input causing the distortion or perhaps the iPod? I have never used an iPod, so I am not familiar with them. I think I have USB port on mine that can accept a USB dongle that could hold a LOT of music. Then again, I can record my CD music to the internal hard drive, which is pretty neat.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

iPod is clean when I use direct connection to amp via the JL, so, yes it is the connection to the HU via the PIE adapter that is causing it.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonnie: I had about convinced myself to order a MS-8 this morning, but I pulled down the instruction manual. Says to use its controls for volume and leave HU volume set to where the display says "OK" for everything. But, then it says you can disconnect the display, but the remote won't work without the display. So, how do you control volume without the display and remote? Confused.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I use my factory head unit volume control. It is not necessary to use the MS-8 volume control and I am not aware of many who do. I have the MS-8 volume set to -10 and can turn my head unit volume full throttle without any distortion.

I found the JBL MS-8 FAQ thread over at DIYMA priceless. It is EXTREMELY long, but I read most all of it and it really sheds some light on so many things about not only the MS-8, but general car audio installation tips as well.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Good deal. I thought there had to be some acceptable range for input to the A/D converters. Kinda like the BFD on the sub outs of an AVR. Thanks for the link!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I increased my sub box volume as much as I could and was able to get the better extension that I was looking for.

After reading a good chunk of that MS-8 FAQ thread again early this morning... I re-ran my setup/calibration on the MS-8 with the sub gain lower and the tweeters covered up for the acoustic measurements, then uncovered for the equalization measurements. It sounds even better, which I really did not think was possible. This is absolutely an awesome processor, but understanding how to use it is critical. And it is not that it has a steep learning curve because it does almost every thing for you, but there are some tips and tricks on the setup/inputs, etc that should be part of the manual as requirements, depending of course on your system design. If I had not read that FAQ thread, I would not have purchased the unit... the thread caused me to buy it.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

You know, Sonnie, I REALLY don't need your help in spending my money

Was going to do more reading, but noticed Amazon had last one for $460, so it will be here Wednesday. Well, now they are showing 2 left from a different seller:

http://www.amazon.com/JBL-MS-8-Seri...1?ie=UTF8&qid=1347794747&sr=8-1&keywords=ms-8

I figure this is more of an improvement in overall SQ than doing anything like changing the HU. Might try a small center channel under the dash - the side fronts are down low and that location for the center will be about at the same elevation.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Only 10 left in stock (more on the way). That is at $477 shipped.

Don't look now, but Newegg has it for $445 shipped. :huh:

They are getting cheaper. I was fortunate to get mine for $399. I ordered the refurb unit from Harman and twice got units that were cosmetically tortured. At that time they were selling them direct for $499... so I told them I would just pay the difference for a new one. They said don't worry about it... they would send me a new one at the same price.

These little 20 watt amps in this unit are pretty serious. I use two of the channels to power my rear speakers and have been pleasantly surprised at how well they sound when not using Logic 7.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

That's OK, would rather deal with Amazon for a return, even with one of their third parties. Not expecting a return, tho, unless broken.

Is there a firmware update that I should install before running a cal? As you know, sometimes new firmware wipes out settings.

Good news on the built-in amps. Will use one of them for the center if I put one in.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

No software updates that I am aware of, but even resetting the inputs and calibrations only take literally 2 minutes. It is that fast... so if you lose your settings, no sweat to set everything right back up. I have ran my three times and I think I have about 5 minutes invested. Okay... well maybe the first time did take me a little longer simply because I had to pay closer attention to the input, but seriously... it is super quick and easy to setup. The installation is what took the most time for me.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Does the MS-8 detect and indicate out of phase like Audyssey?

I don't think my sub amp has defeatable LPF, so set it up high and let the MS-8 cross over? Both the sub amp and the main amp are about 10 years old - the Sony red Xplod line. I decided to replace the main amp with a Rockford Fosgate P400-4 from Amazon. The Sony main amp in the other car has already had its electrolytics go (the famous snap, crackle and pop), so I assume this one is not that far behind.

The sub amp is 300W RMS into 4 ohms and still seems to be OK. It is driving one of the Hsu 12" car subs in a 1.5 cu. ft. sealed box in the trunk. 'Nuff for me.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I don't think it can detect or deal with out of phase connections. Actually I believe that it has been mentioned in the FAQ thread that out of phase connections might be the reason for poor sound and lack of the MS-8 doing what it should do... but don't hold me to it.

I think you would be fine with the crossover setting as you suggest. Sounds like you should have a good setup when it is all done.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

The MS-8 came in today, along with the Rockford Fosgate amps. Decided to go ahead and replace the sub amp while I had everything disconnected. I have an extra satellite from a Klipsch Pro Media 2.1 computer speaker (failed amp) that I plan on trying for a center. It kinda-sorta fits between the dash and the transmission hump. With a little Velcro...

The MS-8 remote is much smaller than I envisioned from the pictures. Hope to hook everything together & run a cal tomorrow morning, but wife is sick. We all know that a sick wife takes precedence over all of hubby's plans .


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

If you get it all hooked up that quick then you gonna be working some overtime, especially with a sick wife. Hope she gets to feeling better soon.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks, and I meant the display is smaller, not the remote.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

The MS-8 and new amps are installed. I got a start last night and got up at my normal oh-dark-thirty this morning and finished.

Of course, I don't have to tell you that the MS-8 completely transformed the system. Everything - top down thru sub - is much smoother and better integrated. One thing that surprised me is with Logic 7 the center is more of a center fill than a dialog channel, at least with the volume settings the cal chose. I suppose I could bring the center level up a tad. The center is powered by the MS-8 now but I have a small mono amp on the way to push a little more power to it.

The only installation hiccup was at first I was getting nothing from the rear speakers. Of course, not reading the manual, I was expecting the channel selection to be "rear." In the manual, it says if you have rears but no sides, the sides feed the rears. Once I corrected that, all was well.

i think I saw that the aux input is not processed. So, I am running the iPod thru the PIE aux input converter to the HU. Sounds fine, no distortion. Wonder if what I heard as distortion was FR meddling by the HU. At any rate, the iPod sounds great now hooked up to the HU.

Thanks for encouraging me to make this mod. I had lived with the system like it was for several years and was never that happy with it. Now, I am


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Awesome!

I assume you followed all of the tips about measuring at very low levels... sounds so anyway.

I think I read where you really need equal power on the front and center if possible, with a center capable of 100Hz on up. Unless of course your center is about 8-10db more sensitive. I am not using a center right now. I took my front left speaker output and connected it to the cheap Sony factory center that is a 3.5" speaker that may reach to about 500Hz... sounds awful even with just voice. However, I have an excellent center image and soundstage up on the hood when set to Front. I actually like Front better than Driver. :huh:

Yep... the MS-8 does "un-EQ" your input signal, so that may be what cured your issue with the iPod.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I started reading the MS-8 threads but have not finished. Had a lot of contract work this week, but can't complain - that is what is paying for all this. So, I just did the cal as directed in the manual. I am sure I can get even better results, especially playing with crossover points.

I re-used all the amp and speaker wiring that was already in the trunk from the other amps - that helped cut the install time a lot. Have some clean up work to do there, but one benefit of having all in the trunk is that it doesn't have to look purty unless I want it to

The four main channels have equal power - 4x75 per the Rockford Fostage test sheet (love the way they conservatively rate their gear). The center channel mono amp came in yesterday afternoon and I had time to put it in. It is a Rockford Fosgate 1x150 at 4 ohms, so that more than makes the center equal to the other four. I ran some errands after putting that amp in and on some music the center does sound like a "dialog" channel.

I have no idea what the cutoff is on the ProMedia satellite; spec sheet only lists the crossover from the mid to the tweeter. I chose 150Hz on one cal and 100 on a second one and could not tell any difference.

I see what others mean about anchoring the bass up front - I suppose that is the mid bass doing that, since the fronts are crossed over at 80Hz now - they are Kenwood Excelon 6x8s and certainly go that low. I suppose a Focal set would be even better; maybe later.

I was pleasantly surprised that I had no alternator whine - I spent quite a bit of time getting the JL Cleensweep "clean." I suppose the differential inputs on the JBL are due credit for that.

I will let you know the results of any further "fiddling."


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I saw a thread about measuring at low volumes - to fix missing mid bass. I don't think I have that problem, but I may try lowering amp gains and doing another cal just to see.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I noticed a huge difference in mine after lowering the calibration volume down to whisper levels.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I re-ran a cal at -30 on the MS-8 this afternoon; biggest difference was noticable increase in treble brightness on fronts and center. Did not hear any impact on midbass. Plan to run another at -40 tomorrow to see what that does.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I set mine at -40 and covered my tweeters for the first of the four measurements since they are on a passive crossover.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Just re-ran the cal at -40; also raised center crossover to 200. Not sure what helped the most, but significant improvement in mid bass. A fun CD to play is Telarc's Papa Doo Run Run, a re-make of the Beach Boys' hits. Lots of good clean mid bass drum fun. May be out of print now - I have had my copy for over 10 years.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Awesome!

I have not heard of that CD before. I use a reference disc that I have used since the 80's, Yello - One Second. The first track is La Habanero and is perfect for testing the entire system. I can't seem to take that CD out once it gets started.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I added a 2F cap in the trunk this morning. I have the 3 Rockford Fosgate amps running from a single 4AWG from the battery. With caps in the $35 range now, I figured it was worth a try. Did seem to add a little oomph from the sub.

So, now I am done - at least for now. I may add some surface mounted tweets up front later, maybe for my birthday in November or Christmas. In the meantime, I will enjoy the tremendous improvement in my system. 

I started out thinking I would swap the head unit, but still liked the factory one with the CD6 changer. The MS-8 made far more improvements than a new HU would have for less overall work. Thanks again, Sonnie, for your help and encouragement to do this.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Anytime... and glad you are well pleased... :T


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Sonnie said:


> Awesome!
> 
> I have not heard of that CD before. I use a reference disc that I have used since the 80's, Yello - One Second. The first track is La Habanero and is perfect for testing the entire system. I can't seem to take that CD out once it gets started.


Thanks for the recommendation on your personal reference material. I had to give it a listen and all I can say is wow. That song is awesome!


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

BTW, MOG has quite a few Yello tracks. MOG streams at 320, so good way to sample before you buy.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

It sounded like a funky techno mix of Cinco De Mayo as I jammed that La Habenero all the way to work last night.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I think I have just about everything Yello has ever recorded. The first song I ever heard of theirs was Hawaiian Chance (on the One Second CD) in a van with a wall full of twelve or more 15" subwoofers. It was astounding to say the least. I immediately went and purchased the CD... and from there is was all she wrote, and thus my Yello collection. They are actually famous for their Oh Yeah song in I think it was Ferris Bueller's Day Off.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm planning on listening to some more of their music. La Habenero was just the first song that I listened to and knew it would be an outstanding reference song. It's one of the best songs I've ever heard for testing a system. Highs, lows, and mids all used in beautiful unison. It's the Transformers Dark of Moon of music.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Playing Yello on your system will definately separate the men from the boys On a couple of songs the female vocalist reminded me of Shirley Bassey's style.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonnie: Still thinking about adding tweeters or putting components in front door. I have space for surface mounting tweeters on plastic pieces on the front edge of the window, at top of dash level. 

My question is about imaging. With the mains near the bottom of the doors (not kickpanels) will the imaging seem separated by frequency? My son's Fusion had the premium package with tweeters about that location (all stock speakers) and I always thought that the sound was split.

Also, I have read that Focals are rather bright - do you have an opinon on that?

Still extremely pleased with the MS-8. If I add separate tweeters I will use two of its amp channels for them.

Thanks.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I would probably try to put them in the top half of the door somewhere, unless you go with a three way system and can mount a midrange higher up and fairly close to the tweeter. 

The farther apart the drivers are from each other, the more difficult it is going to be for the MS-8 to do its magic.

I have never heard any Focals, but they seem to be somewhat popular in the car audio world. I specifically looked for a particular size tweeter to fit my location, but I will only use soft domes. Anything else seems a bit too harsh for me. I cannot say enough good about these Hertz speakers I have... I am impressed, however, it may very well be contributed partly to the MS-8. Perhaps a combination of the MS-8, Hertz, 3-ways and mounting location. :huh:

Keep in mind that if you mix the MS-8 amps with outboard amps that have significantly more power, make sure the speakers powered by the MS-8 are significantly higher sensitivity than those powered by the outboard amps. This will likely influence what you buy.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonnie said:


> IThe farther apart the drivers are from each other, the more difficult it is going to be for the MS-8 to do its magic.


Did not think about that, thanks. No place to put mids without hacking the doors, which I won't do. Imaging is really not that bad as it is, so I may just upgrade the front mains. They are Kenwood Excelon 6x8s. With just the stock radio I could not bear the midrange - very honky. The Cleensweep tamed it a great deal, but not to the level of the MS-8.

I will take a look at Hertz. Looks like the ECX 570 will fit the front doors.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonnie: Was installing the Dynamat in the doors worthwhile? I suppose the bass response from the fronts improved, but was there a noted decrease in road noise as well?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I can't ever tell if that stuff really works or not. My doors already had some deadening, so they were not really that tinny or think sounding to begin with. I don't think it really helps with noise that much, if any. I seem to always do it... but only did it this time because I had some leftover Dynamat Extreme from my last project.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Thanks for the info. I am looking at a pair of Hertz 5x7 ESK 570 components for the front doors and wondered if it was worth putting the Dynamat on while I had the door panels off. Depends on how much cost it adds, I suppose.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I purchased most of mine in bulk packs from ebay and there was one other place online that had it cheap at one time, but I can't remember where.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I spent some time in the car today and decided to order the Hertz 5x7/6x8 component speakers. I think the tweeters up higher in the doors will improve the imaging quite a bit. I ordered a pair for the back as well. The opening in the package shelf fires thru the carpet like fabric, killing the treble. I can mount the Hertz tweeters aimed toward the front which should be much better. Will let you know how it sounds when they come in. 

Have not decided about the Dynamat yet. May be wasted time and money, but while I have the door panels off anyway...


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Looking forward to hearing your impressions.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Sonnie: With Dynamat on the doors, what do you do if the car has to go in the shop for power window repairs - take it out before taking it to the dealer?

The Hertz speakers should be here late this week. Ordered them early last week from WoofersEtc but they only had one pair. They got the second pair yesterday and shipped them 3 day FedEx.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I suppose if I had to take it to the dealer for power window repair I would have to remove it around the motor/actuator/etc... I would not want them to charge me extra for having to remove it.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I installed 4 of the Hertz ESK-570s in the Town Car this morning - 5x7 2 way component in front doors and rear deck. After re-running calibration (I remembered to cover the tweeters for the distance measurement) I took a listen. Lets just say that I lost count of the number of "WOW!"s 

Absolutely amazing difference. I knew something good was happening after putting the first one in the door. I turned off all MS-8 processing and panned from the Hertz to the Kenwood Excelon coax in the other door. In comparsion, the Kenwood sounded like it was buried in mud. Much cleaner midrange, much better treble with the Hertz. Of course, having the tweeters closer to ear level and having a real crossover rather than just a capacitor to the tweeters makes a lot of the difference.

When I put the Hertz in the back, I mounted the tweeters between the edge of the rear seat and the pillar. Not only did that give me real treble in the rear for once (the Kenwoods were firing thru the carpet on the package deck) but the rear soundfield came alive with Logic 7 engaged. I was tempted to boost the tweeters +2 on the rears, and may yet. I left the front tweeters on 0 which is not too bright for me, what with age related loss of HF hearing.

I am sure that other component sets would have made a lot of difference, but the Hertz are winners.

For those who are considering going to components, whatchawaitinon

So, thanks, Sonnie for introducing me to Hertz!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Awesome... glad you like them and they worked out for you. Now I need to call Hertz and get my commission. :bigsmile:


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

The crowning moment was when my wife got in the car for a trip to Sams Club. She noticed the difference before the car was halfway out the garage. At the Sams parking lot she said "This sounds great!." Maybe she won't mind, then, when the credit card bill comes in:gulp:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

You may want to take her to Sam's Club a few more times... explain to her what all you had to purchase to make it sound that good. :whistling:


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## elmn8r (May 13, 2013)

Sonnie,

I have a quick question regarding your MS-8 install in the F-150. I have a 2012 Platinum that I'm installing an MS-8 into. In my truck, there are 4 wires that run from the Sony amp back to the factory sub. Did you tap into all four of them to run to the MS-8 to get a full signal or just two of them? I know it's been a while but I was hoping you would remember. Thx.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hmmm... my sub box in my Platinum had the amp attached to it. There were 4 wires, two were signal and two were power turn-on/ground... I believe. Of course I used the two sub wires for the signal, as well as the rear channel speaker leads. I also used that remote turn-on, but I had to get a low voltage remote turn-on trigger to get the voltage up enough to turn on the MS-8.

Welcome to the Shack!


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## elmn8r (May 13, 2013)

Thanks Sonnie. So you just used the two rear channels and the sub channel to get the full signal to the MS-8 then? Did you have to do anything special for the voice commands/hands free cell phone functions to work without echo?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

As a matter of fact I did. I took the left front channel and ran it to the center speaker. I keep the fader set all the way to the rear. Voice commands and speakerphone for my cell phone come through the center speaker.


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## elmn8r (May 13, 2013)

Just to make sure I understand, you took the LF channel out of the stock Sony amp and wired it to the trucks center channel and then set the trucks head unit to full fade to rear? So you don't use the center channel as part of your MS-8 output setup?

I was planning to take LF and RF mids and tweets along with the sub channel back to the MS-8 for the full signal and then run all channels RF, LF, RR, LR, and C out of the MS-8. I know on my truck the voice commands and cell phone are carried by the LF and RF. I figured by running them back to the MS-8 I should be ok. Maybe there is too much delay running it thru the MS-8?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Nope... no center channel. I could not get matching mids/tweeters and did not think it wise to use the stock center. I am doing my Honda Civic now and don't plan to use a center channel there either. I haven't even needed one before so ain't gonna worry about it. :huh: However, if you got it worked out, then it may be something to give a try. I believe there are some known issues with running the LF and RF through the MS-8 though.


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## NLPlatinum (May 25, 2013)

Hi Sonnie,

I'm just getting a Platinum myself, and plan to upgrade the audio. Just adding some extra subwoofers for now, and possibly a 4 channel with components later if I upgrade from the stock nav to an aftermarket nav. 

I was just wondering what dimensions you used to build the box? I'm probably going to go with a single 10, but I'd be curious to know the dimensions to get a box like that, and hopefully squeeze 1cuFt. Thanks!

A.Hodder


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am not at home this weekend... at our lake shack... but when I get back home and can remember to do it, I will measure it for you. I do know that it is super tight. I just barely had enough room to get the depth I needed for the sub. Fortunately the subs I used work fine with the absolute minimum space.


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## elmn8r (May 13, 2013)

Sonnie,

I now have my MS-8 installed in my Platinum. Really impressed. I want to ask you how you solved an issue I'm guessing you had as well. How did you handle the turn on/turn off pops? I originally wired the remote turn on by piggy backing onto the turn on signal going to the factory Sony amp => MS-8 => JL amps. I'm getting on/off pops.

I've read recommendations of letting the MS-8 also turn on the factory amp to alleviate the pop issue but I've seen contradicting reports that indicate that won't work.

What did you do?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hmmm... I just used that turn-on wire going to the sub amp and increased the voltage on it from 5 to 12 volts... then let the MS-8 turn-on my JL Audio amp. No pops at any time here.


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