# 11.1/2 owners with front presence speakers please chime in!



## BamaDave (Dec 28, 2013)

I'm looking for comments and/or opinions of the placement and experience with your upper front presence speakers, please! I'm currently only running the traditional front channel speakers (Def Tech BP7001SC ) in my HT and due to the room configuration I have those placed at the outside corners. Don't get me wrong as it sounds very good in their location but I'm just wanting to hear about what I could be missing. Having said all of that, do you feel a good or great improvement in there addition? Based on my setup I have to decide on moving the fronts inward which will be tight with the screen location or installing the upper presence inward in the wall next to me screen. By moving the front speakers inward in addition to the clearance issue with the screen I would have to construct a housing to place the added presence in the angled area of the ceiling. I'm planning on installing a DIY masking system as well as wall treatment throughout the HT so I just in the planning stage at the moment of this upcoming project.


Here is a shot of the current layout to give you a understanding of what I was describing. I know I need to replace that light bulb. 

​Thanks for your comments and suggestions!

David


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

My front height speakers are located just above the screen right over the corner of the screen (100" screen). Which basically places them vertically above my front Left and Right speaker.

[URL=http://s1198.photobucket.com/user/phillihp23/media/HT%20BUILD/DSC_0322_zps99d33b4f.jpg.html][/URL]

As far as speakers and creating a larger/better sound stage I would recommend from my experience the following order of implementation going up from a standard 5.1 setup: Front Wides, Rear, Front Heights


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

BamaDave said:


> I'm looking for comments and/or opinions of the placement and experience with your upper front presence speakers, please! I'm currently only running the traditional front channel speakers (Def Tech BP7001SC ) in my HT and due to the room configuration I have those placed at the outside corners. Don't get me wrong as it sounds very good in their location but I'm just wanting to hear about what I could be missing. Having said all of that, do you feel a good or great improvement in there addition? Based on my setup I have to decide on moving the fronts inward which will be tight with the screen location or installing the upper presence inward in the wall next to me screen. By moving the front speakers inward in addition to the clearance issue with the screen I would have to construct a housing to place the added presence in the angled area of the ceiling. I'm planning on installing a DIY masking system as well as wall treatment throughout the HT so I just in the planning stage at the moment of this upcoming project.
> 
> 
> Here is a shot of the current layout to give you a understanding of what I was describing. I know I need to replace that light bulb.
> ...



If possible I would recommend moving your screen to the right enough to fit your front left speaker between the screen and doorway. Then move your front right speaker in to the side of your screen on the right side (should be around 22-30 degrees from center). Add two towers out to the sides, about where the speakers are now... It is suppose to be something like 55-60 degrees left and right from the center. Center being the point directly in front of the center channel. So sitting in your centered seat facing the center channel a 55-60 degree to the right and left place the front wides. Also, I couldn't tell from the picture but do you have side surrounds..... I would definitely install them first if you do not.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Here is a general guideline. Of course differant sound factors of a room and ability for placement are considerations also.








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## BamaDave (Dec 28, 2013)

phillihp23 said:


> If possible I would recommend moving your screen to the right enough to fit your front left speaker between the screen and doorway. Then move your front right speaker in to the side of your screen on the right side (should be around 22-30 degrees from center). Add two towers out to the sides, about where the speakers are now... It is suppose to be something like 55-60 degrees left and right from the center. Center being the point directly in front of the center channel. So sitting in your centered seat facing the center channel a 55-60 degree to the right and left place the front wides. Also, I couldn't tell from the picture but do you have side surrounds..... I would definitely install them first if you do not.


The screen is centered and the raiser and everything else is set on center so moving the screen is not what I'm really considering. I'm running a 9.1+ configuration now and just wanting to get input on the front height presents as that is what I'm really lacking. Looking at the photo you can see that I don't have an simple outboard location to place them by the guideline. My room is not the best for it as we have the angled roof line to deal with. Thanks for your assistance!


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## BamaDave (Dec 28, 2013)

phillihp23 said:


> Here is a general guideline. Of course differant sound factors of a room and ability for placement are considerations also.
> 
> Thanks as this was considered in my original placement and now I'm just looking at the upper presents to possible add. Thanks again!


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Depending on the size of height speakers used you look like you could place them just to the left and right of the screen top corners... I know how these things can be....I had to be creative in the install of mine. I ordered some brackets that tilted and then zip tied the mounts on the back of the speakers to the wall bracket. This was in order to have them slightly angled down at the listening position rather then flush with the wall facing straight out.


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

how is this affected when you mix in presence speakers instead of the front height and front width? here is a pic from the yamaha 3010 and they put presence speakers in the corners instead of dedicated front high / wide. i would think this presence approach would be more enveloping compared to just adding to the fronts. i tried to attach the pic. lets hope i did it right.

dave


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

david yurik said:


> how is this affected when you mix in presence speakers instead of the front height and front width? here is a pic from the yamaha 3010 and they put presence speakers in the corners instead of dedicated front high / wide. i would think this presence approach would be more enveloping compared to just adding to the fronts. i tried to attach the pic. lets hope i did it right.
> 
> dave


It appears Yamaha is using the Presence speakers as terminology comparative to what is normally called front wides and front heights...except for the fact that instead of front wides they have what appears to be rear wides. An interesting take on speaker setup...thanks for sharing this. I am just not sure what type of sound setting would implement such a setup... Denon uses NEO and DSX for its 11 speaker setup.

I don't see how this model would work as well due to the fact that a minimal amount of audio is output through the rear channels. 

With the setup I am familiar with, diagram i posted. IMO I find that the front wides is the best implementation for an increased sound stage, and more enveloping audio experience. Most likely this is due to the fact that front left and front right speaker channels output the most effects and front L/R wides basically mimic them ( to a point).


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

phillihp23 said:


> It appears Yamaha is using the Presence speakers as terminology comparative to what is normally called front wides and front heights...except for the fact that instead of front wides they have what appears to be rear wides. An interesting take on speaker setup...thanks for sharing this.


since no source material is recorded in these 9. and 11. formats ( 7. for that matter ) i wonder who does it the best? which sounds better - and that is just way too subjective!!

bama dave ( all cool guys are named dave so i hear! ) please let us know what you decide and what your impression is!!

dave


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## david yurik (Feb 17, 2013)

i stopped at the local hi fi shop and talked to the sales weenie for about 20 minutes. per him - there is no universal standard as to what goes into each channel ( 9.x / 11.x / presence ) and what sounds best is purely up to the listener and their receiver preference. so a speaker position ( height / presence ) is really what you like the sound of the most.

i would try hooking it up and moving it around with multiple locations to see what you like. then when the location is nailed down - frame in the pocket in the ceiling.

dave


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

david yurik said:


> i stopped at the local hi fi shop and talked to the sales weenie for about 20 minutes. per him - there is no universal standard as to what goes into each channel ( 9.x / 11.x / presence ) and what sounds best is purely up to the listener and their receiver preference. so a speaker position ( height / presence ) is really what you like the sound of the most.
> 
> i would try hooking it up and moving it around with multiple locations to see what you like. then when the location is nailed down - frame in the pocket in the ceiling.
> 
> dave


I find this all interesting. But I'm still confused about what sound will be sent to the rear presence speakers. What programming is used ? Does the yamaha receiver have speaker channels noted on the back as rear presence? What sound is the programming pulling from to create the rear presence? 

For example simplistically put, front wides pull from the sound most closely associated with front L/R channel when using Audyssey DSX programming.

Well, I might have found the answer in an article on another website... http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=41243


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

BamaDave said:


> I'm looking for comments and/or opinions of the placement and experience with your upper front presence speakers, please! I'm currently only running the traditional front channel speakers (Def Tech BP7001SC ) in my HT and due to the room configuration I have those placed at the outside corners. Don't get me wrong as it sounds very good in their location but I'm just wanting to hear about what I could be missing. Having said all of that, do you feel a good or great improvement in there addition? Based on my setup I have to decide on moving the fronts inward which will be tight with the screen location or installing the upper presence inward in the wall next to me screen. By moving the front speakers inward in addition to the clearance issue with the screen I would have to construct a housing to place the added presence in the angled area of the ceiling. I'm planning on installing a DIY masking system as well as wall treatment throughout the HT so I just in the planning stage at the moment of this upcoming project.
> 
> Here is a shot of the current layout to give you a understanding of what I was describing. I know I need to replace that light bulb.
> 
> ...


I just received my new receiver last week and hooked it up. I was running 5.1 or 7.1 with rear surrounds as the extra two channels. Now I am running 7.2 with front highs being the extra two. My wife and I both immediately noticed a difference in certain scenes of movies. The biggest is rain falling like the final scenes of Pirates at worlds end. But even drones flying like in Oblivion completely surrounded us. Movies seem to draw us in more with these than the rear surrounds ever did. The speakers I am using are actually klipsch outdoor speakers that have not been placed outside yet. They are placed just inside of the fronts and well above.


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## BamaDave (Dec 28, 2013)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> I just received my new receiver last week and hooked it up. I was running 5.1 or 7.1 with rear surrounds as the extra two channels. Now I am running 7.2 with front highs being the extra two. My wife and I both immediately noticed a difference in certain scenes of movies. The biggest is rain falling like the final scenes of Pirates at worlds end. But even drones flying like in Oblivion completely surrounded us. Movies seem to draw us in more with these than the rear surrounds ever did. The speakers I am using are actually klipsch outdoor speakers that have not been placed outside yet. They are placed just inside of the fronts and well above.


That is the information I was looking to hear! Do you have the uppers speakers set inside the standard right and left fronts? 99% of my HT use is to TV/Movie viewing so this is something I should add and if I understand you correctly I can place them on the front wall just to the left and right of the screen and see an improvement in sound from a slight overhead prospective.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

BamaDave said:


> That is the information I was looking to hear! Do you have the uppers speakers set inside the standard right and left fronts? 99% of my HT use is to TV/Movie viewing so this is something I should add and if I understand you correctly I can place them on the front wall just to the left and right of the screen and see an improvement in sound from a slight overhead prospective.


Just a little inside I am trying to load a photo off my phone also ignore the the fact my room is not done. I cant seem to spend money on finishing it since it is going to better things. You know new receiver and more speakers lol. Yes we noticed it immediately and enjoy it. What receiver are you using? Ours is an onkyo 3010 and have been listening the plz height format thus far.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Here is the right half sorry my pbone can not size for this forum I guess


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## BamaDave (Dec 28, 2013)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Here is the right half sorry my pbone can not size for this forum I guess


I'm running a Yamaha Pre/Pro CX-A5000BL & MX-A5000BL with a Parasound Halo A31 driving the fronts. I purchased these knowing I would want to expand and your reply has me determined to do just that, thanks again! Now I have to make a speaker selection to place above and at this point all I know is that I want to stay with the Def Tech line.


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## Mark L (Mar 7, 2008)

Dave I started a thread in the Set Up and Connections section asking basically the same question and phillip23 posted that article that I also found very informative. I am also going to be looking for some front presence speaker from Def-tech so I will be interested to see what you select. I am currently using the UIW BPZ/A as my rear surrounds and I love them, but they no longer make them so I am looking for something similar.


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## roger1014 (Oct 18, 2011)

Here's my 2 cents worth ....I have my system set up for 11.2 and I really can hear the difference between 5.1 or 7.1 sound! On my Denon 4311ci I need to use the A-dsx and Neo to get all of the 11 speakers producing sound. A wider and sometimes deeper soundscape. I also wonder about what type of sound is being sent to the front heights and back rear surrounds? Using ML Motion 4s for the heights and rear and Audyssey setup detects them as large speakers! Is the signal being sent Full/wide band or are is the signal limited to a certain range of frequencies?

Oh BTW ...the front heights are located about midway between the main L/R and the wide L/R about 7 foot off the floor.


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## seanpatrick (Apr 16, 2013)

BamaDave said:


> That is the information I was looking to hear! Do you have the uppers speakers set inside the standard right and left fronts? 99% of my HT use is to TV/Movie viewing so this is something I should add and if I understand you correctly I can place them on the front wall just to the left and right of the screen and see an improvement in sound from a slight overhead prospective.


Audyssey recommends the heights be outside your front speakers, while Dolby recommends they go directly above your left and right speaker. I have mine directly above my left and right and I do indeed seem to enjoy Dolby PLiiZ more than the Audyssey DSX height setting, though this might be because I've set them up directly above the speakers as per Dolby instructions due to space restrictions. Or it could just be my mind telling me it's better because that's where I've placed them, who knows.


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