# 31-band EQ's



## ArnoldNL

Just got a job as a tech at a local venue that's doing bands 2 (occasional 3) nights a week and doing jamsessions every sunday and tuesday.

Now the previous tech didn't really do the best job on creating a good PA. Bought a new mixer last week (Mackie 1604 VLZ3) to replace the old, beaten and broken Yamaha MG16/6FX. Happy venue-owner, but I'm still not satisfied.

There's no EQ on the masteroutput, and I would really like to do a good roomcorrection. Visitors are complaining about the bands being too loud for the last 7 years, so it's really time for a change. But the main problem is: it needs to go on the cheap!

So there's no money for a Klark Teknik Square One EQ. It's gonna be something in the likes of Behringer or a second hand DBX....

any suggestions/comments?


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## planetnine

Those little behringer 3102 2u dual EQs aren't that bad. Put them in as inserts if you can, I use some as monitor EQs and they can be a little hissy over long distances if in-line. Just look after them physically, as B-equipment tends not to be the most robust stuff and it's easy to knock knobs and sliders off. 

Dbx are ok although will cost a little more. What you using for monitor EQ?

Usual problem with level starts with the performers, good luck with that 

>


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

If everything’s too loud, that’s an issue separate from proper room equalization. Controlling the house volume starts with controlling the stage volume. The musicians have to turn everything down (especially the drummer). Really, your house level is determined by the loudest thing on the stage: unless you want that instrument to be the only thing anyone hears, you have to boost everything else up to its level to achieve a good mix. Hence the need for ear plugs.

As far as an equalizer, IMO one of the best deals out there of late is used MQX and GQX Ashly models. Since the world is going digital, these excellent analog equalizers are going dirt cheap on ebay. I’ve recently seen the large-frame stereo GQX sell for as little as $250, and the equally-excellent MQX sell for even less.

Regards.
Wayne


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## tonyvdb

I agree with Wayne, tto add to what he said, its a general rule that the stage volume needs to be 10% lower than the house mix volume. 
A good way to achieve this is in ear monitors as well as having the band keep their monitors facing the rear of the stage not blasting out into the audience. 
As far as EQs also look for Yamaha, they make very clean 1/3rd octave EQs and sell for very cheap on ebay. I particularly like the Yamaha YDG 2030, its a stereo analog EQ with full digital interface. Has memory presets and notch filters that are great for getting rid of those nasty feedback frequencies. They can be found for under $200


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## planetnine

Yes guys, but live sound is a holistic entity, and the performers on the stage are an active and very significant part of this -get the sound "right" and the monitors "right" and you may find that they are happier playing at a lower volume, and they might even stay somewhere near their soundcheck levels. 

Of course there are "musicians" who don't understand, won't listen, don't care even, and it can be difficult to get through to them and maintain a good sound at a volume suitable for the venue. Good communication and people skills is as important a skill for the live SE as his technical knowledge and application of a little pschology doesn't hurt sometimes -let the singer know he can't be heard clearly. 


>


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## AudiocRaver

Some musicians understand good sound, many do not. Most bands have a volume they play at, and that is that. As planetnine says, some good psychology can be helpful, but you have to watch the egos, too, they don't want to hear that their playing is anything less than perfect.

Saw Devin Townsend in Lawrence, Kansas last fall. He was the closing act, and his volume level was lower than any of the other bands, but still a very satisfying volume, clearly the choice of a mature performer choosing to save the hearing of his fans. How many bands will make that choice?

The first thing I noticed when they started to play, the drums were barely coming through the PA, almost all you could hear was their direct sound from the stage. Turns out that was plenty loud enough. The band mix was nicely balanced, and after a few seconds of getting used to the idea that our hair was not going to be lit on fire by the SPL, we enjoyed the show just fine. The lesson to me was, don't amplify it if it doesn't need to be amplified. Of coarse there are other considerations, monitor mix, being heard evenly throughout the house, etc.

My pet peeve with sound people is the tendency to crank up the base and lower mids on every item in the mix. The result is horrible amounts of masking and a super muddy mix, followed by the temptation to push faders to compensate, which only makes it worse. The first thing I would do would be to hit everything but drums and bass with high pass filters at 250 Hz or so, just enough to get good clarity and separation, the volume will automatically be lower and the mix cleaner. Of course, some bands don't want to be heard clearly. But that is another problem altogether.


I own both Peavey and DBX dual 31-band EQ's, both have balanced I/O, both have been reliable but neither has been banged around, generally prefer the DBX except the Peavey sliders have longer throw, which is nice.


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## Verse-n-Chorus

Rane made an RTA / EQ of model # RE27 with an integrated Real Time Analyzer with an Equalizer ;
it was a mono unit to use in conjuntion with their GE27 mono Equalizer.
These were analog sweet units.
Seems like everyone is going digital now-a-days ( I still like clean , fast , dependable analog).
Rane produces a digital one DEQ60.
Finally , Carvin makes an analogus pruduct to the Beh. digital speaker mangment sys :
XD360 3X6 Loudspeaker Management System


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## ArnoldNL

Mostly the good mixed bands are around 90dbA, when the band has a drummer that knocks out his drumskins (and my eardrums) I turn down everything on my desk except vocals and low-end kick...

I know room-eq corrections won't take down volume, but the thing that's bugging me is that the speakers are fullrange mediocre older peavey's and the monitors are even worse... but everything is still working perfect twice a week, but it just sounds a bit harsh overall...

Think i'm going to stick with behringer's stuff.... good bang for the buck, always been.... It just needs to get the job done, that's all... 

Thanks for the comments folks!


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## Misfit

planetnine said:


> Yes guys, but live sound is a holistic entity, and the performers on the stage are an active and very significant part of this -get the sound "right" and the monitors "right" and you may find that they are happier playing at a lower volume, and they might even stay somewhere near their soundcheck levels.
> 
> Of course there are "musicians" who don't understand, won't listen, don't care even, and it can be difficult to get through to them and maintain a good sound at a volume suitable for the venue. Good communication and people skills is as important a skill for the live SE as his technical knowledge and application of a little pschology doesn't hurt sometimes -let the singer know he can't be heard clearly.
> 
> 
> >


^^^ This is the hardest part, especially in small rooms. You need really good monitors, with 31 band EQ's on each mix, and they should at least be bi-amplified. This is just to make the musicians happy enough to not feel the need to crank their stage amps, with each of their mixes tailored to their tastes during soundchecks. 

Small budgets and good sound are a tough thing to accomplish. Good luck. That's a much harder job than working with a nice sound system.


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## fletch44

Hi, I'm a freelance live sound engineer in sunny Perth Australia. As far as brands go, dbx are really the lowest I would look at using to EQ monitors and FOH. There are some super cheap brands like Alto and Behringer, but not only are they noisy, they have terrible specs for distortion, poor quality components, and they will fail within a couple of years.

dbx is still cheap compared to what you could be using, but it's professional gear. The 1231 is cheaper than the 2231, but it uses the same mainboard. The front panel is just missing some holes for push buttons, so you can't access the "Type III" noise reduction.

If you ever have more money to play with, some other good middle-of-the-road brands you see in bigger systems are BSS, XTA and of course KT.


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## AudiocRaver

fletch44 said:


> Hi, I'm a freelance live sound engineer in sunny Perth Australia. As far as brands go, dbx are really the lowest I would look at using to EQ monitors and FOH. There are some super cheap brands like Alto and Behringer, but not only are they noisy, they have terrible specs for distortion, poor quality components, and they will fail within a couple of years.
> 
> dbx is still cheap compared to what you could be using, but it's professional gear. The 1231 is cheaper than the 2231, but it uses the same mainboard. The front panel is just missing some holes for push buttons, so you can't access the "Type III" noise reduction.
> 
> If you ever have more money to play with, some other good middle-of-the-road brands you see in bigger systems are BSS, XTA and of course KT.


Being fair to Behringer - and not starting an argument:bigsmile: - in my experience Behringer's specs are solid, their quality is improving (manufactured in China in their _own factory_ so quality is under their control), but I would agree that it does not seem to take as much knocking around as many of the "pro" brands will.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

fletch44 said:


> If you ever have more money to play with, some other good middle-of-the-road brands you see in bigger systems are BSS, XTA and of course KT.


Klark-Teknik and BSS “middle of the road” brands?  What do you consider high-end?

Regards, 
Wayne


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## tonyvdb

I've said it befor but I will post my recommendations here as well the two EQs I highly recommend and are probably the cleanest you will find for a good price are the Yamaha YDG2030 and the YDP2006 both can be found on ebay all the time.


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