# Denon 4520Ci + External Amps



## JM71 (Aug 28, 2012)

Upgrading to the 4520 and plan to run 11.2 setup. I already have an Emotiva XPA-2 that runs my front speakers in a 9.2 setup. I know the 4520 will run the other 9 speakers just fine, but Emotiva is having a pretty decent sale and I was thinking about picking up another amp.

If I get an XPA-5 (200w x 5), which 5 channels would you use it to drive? I was thinking the front highs and wides and the center but wanted some input from the folks here.

Also I was considering just getting just the XPA-100 (250w x 1) to run just the center channel and letting the 4520 handle all surrounds. This would give me a little more power on the center but the 4520 would now be handling 8 channels which is bound to reduce headroom. Thoughts?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The 4520 well might be all the power you need for 9 of the channels. What kind of speakers are you using and how large is your room?
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree with Jack, if your already powering the mains with your XPA2 then your likely not going to gain anything by adding any more amps to the Denon.


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## FJR (Jul 5, 2012)

JM71 said:


> Upgrading to the 4520 and plan to run 11.2 setup. I already have an Emotiva XPA-2 that runs my front speakers in a 9.2 setup. I know the 4520 will run the other 9 speakers just fine, but Emotiva is having a pretty decent sale and I was thinking about picking up another amp.
> 
> If I get an XPA-5 (200w x 5), which 5 channels would you use it to drive? I was thinking the front highs and wides and the center but wanted some input from the folks here.
> 
> Also I was considering just getting just the XPA-100 (250w x 1) to run just the center channel and letting the 4520 handle all surrounds. This would give me a little more power on the center but the 4520 would now be handling 8 channels which is bound to reduce headroom. Thoughts?


Might be worth adding the XPA 100 for the center as it should work well with your XPA-2 on the mains. No need to do anything else as the Denon should be more than adequate on the rest.


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## JM71 (Aug 28, 2012)

Starting to think the XPA-100 might be best. Center is an Axiom 150 - rated to 400 watts. XPA-100 is only $379 and this would power it well and make sure the center has plenty of headroom. Surrounds are Definitive Tech Pro1000's with Polk Dipoles for rear surrounds (cannot recall model - FX something). Agree that 4520 should handle the surrounds with ease, but...you never can have enough horsepower can you? That being said, the DefTechs are pretty efficient and I can't imagine the surrounds being underpowered at 150W per channel from the 4520 (even though that's power rating is only relevant for 2 channels driven).


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## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

JM71 said:


> Starting to think the XPA-100 might be best. Center is an Axiom 150 - rated to 400 watts. XPA-100 is only $379 and this would power it well and make sure the center has plenty of headroom. Surrounds are Definitive Tech Pro1000's with Polk Dipoles for rear surrounds (cannot recall model - FX something). Agree that 4520 should handle the surrounds with ease, but...you never can have enough horsepower can you? That being said, the DefTechs are pretty efficient and I can't imagine the surrounds being underpowered at 150W per channel from the 4520 (even though that's power rating is only relevant for 2 channels driven).


I like this solution too. The 4520 is a beastly receiver and it supplies good power but not all speaker assignments are the same. You've recognized that already by having the XPA-2 (@300wpc x2) drive the front mains...great call. But that leaves the what is arguably the most important speaker in a home theater configuration, the center channel with only 150wpc if the Denon drives it (not to mention sharing its power with with 8 other speakers). The XPA-5 (@200wpc x5) is a great product but unless you are looking to do a lot of multichannel music, your rear surrounds are the same towers as your front mains or if your room is huge, it is probably overkill. The XPA-100 can drive 250wpc dedicated for that critical application with only $379 out of pocket. All of your other speakers are used to fill in the surround information and aren't used nearly as often or at the required power for your main front three speakers.

If you did have rear towers (like me) and wanted to do more multichannel music, I'd pick the XPA-3 (@200wpc x3), using it to drive the center and rear towers. But that's way overkill on Pro1000s.

Your new Denon still has to drive 8 channels in this configuration but again, the 4520 is no slouch and should be able to handle 150wpc to surrounds without really breathing hard. Congrats on the 4520...I'm jealous.


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## JM71 (Aug 28, 2012)

Thanks. I'm definitely going with the XPA-100 as I believe having the center driven with its own amp is probably the most bang for the buck. Really don't think I will notice anything is I drive the surrounds with dedicated amps.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Did you get the 4520 setup yet?


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## JM71 (Aug 28, 2012)

Not yet. It's on backorder.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I got one in on Friday, but have not taken the time to swap it out with my 5508 yet.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am powering my ML's with it right now, bi-amping the mains... 5.2 setup. Does a fine job even when pushed hard.


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## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

Sonnie said:


> I am powering my ML's with it right now, bi-amping the mains... 5.2 setup. Does a fine job even when pushed hard.


That's the receiver I wish I had the budget for (I'll probably end up with a 3313). But I need to get a price from my dealer...who knows what they might tell me? I already know I can get a good deal on the 3313.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Sevenfeet said:


> That's the receiver I wish I had the budget for (I'll probably end up with a 3313). But I need to get a price from my dealer...who knows what they might tell me? I already know I can get a good deal on the 3313.


Hello,
Have you considered getting an AVR-4311? The price should be fairly close to what a 3313 would cost and offers so much more with Audyssey MultEQ XT32/SubEQ HT. The 4311 is really not all that different than the 4520 and the HDMI spec remains 1.4. I do love the industrial design of the 4520, but internally it really is not that much different than its predecessor.
Cheers,
J


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## JM71 (Aug 28, 2012)

Wanted to follow up. Got 4520. Love it. Went with XPA-100 for center. Coupled with my XPA-2 for main L/R I believe that I have plenty of power. Full volume would result in significant pain to my ears and probably destroy the house as well.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

JM71 said:


> Wanted to follow up. Got 4520. Love it. Went with XPA-100 for center. Coupled with my XPA-2 for main L/R I believe that I have plenty of power. Full volume would result in significant pain to my ears and probably destroy the house as well.


Hello,
Very nice. I love the industrial design of the 4520 and think it really is a major upgrade over the 4311. With the amplification, you have a huge amount of flexibility. For around a decade, I have used heavy duty outboard amplification combined with AVR's similar to the 4520 to excellent effect. I am seriously considering getting a 4520 soon just to mix it up as new AVR/SSP's are quite fun and I have been using Onkyo's for the the entire HDMI era.
Cheers,
J


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## JM71 (Aug 28, 2012)

I plan on collecting some additional amps so that I can eventually have external power for all channels. For now, I'm moving on to my next upgrade...systematically replacing all speakers.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

JM71 said:


> I plan on collecting some additional amps so that I can eventually have external power for all channels. For now, I'm moving on to my next upgrade...systematically replacing all speakers.


Sound plan of action as speakers definitely are the most crucial of all AV components.


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

Sevenfeet said:


> the most important speaker in a home theater configuration, the center channel with only 150wpc if the Denon drives it (not to mention sharing its power with with 8 other speakers). The XPA-100 can drive 250wpc dedicated for that critical application with only $379 out of pocket.


While more power is always better, going from 150 W to 250 W is less than a 3 db difference in power. Also, it is bass that demands the most power. 

If your center speaker is not full range, and you have a separately powered subwoofer, then I guarantee you will not notice the difference. If your center speaker is full range, then the addition of less than 3 db in power will be subtle.

Some might make the case that running the other channels might reduce the power to the center. Wile that could be true, the surrounds, especially if they are small, rarely put a strain on a receiver like the front three do.

A test would be to run your system as now configured to full power, assuming you can stand it, and try to determine of your center speaker is distorting. The best test would be to hook up an oscilloscope and look for any clipping - but given that, if your ears cannot detect it, why spend the $ there?

When I went from separates to a receiver, I went from 350 W per channel to 80. I could not tell the difference in power, although I do miss the look of my good old huge rack mounted amp with those meters flying back and forth. The lights in the house would dim when I powered that on......


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## JM71 (Aug 28, 2012)

Good point but I already sprung for the XPA-100. Agree that it may not make a difference but the amp looks cool in the rack :bigsmile:

I am very satisfied with the overall sound now. It really does sound like there is no strain - basically effortless. Reference level, while too loud for extended listening, sounds excellent now. And the best feature of the 4520 is the Dynamic Volume. It sounds great at any listening level.

Much greater improvement over the Yami. So much so I cannot even put it into words.

Over the next year or so I plan to replace all speakers with Axiom speakers (front three are Axiom now). Subs are already taken care of - 2 Submersive F2s.


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## SteveY (Mar 29, 2008)

I got my 4520 and did a swap out from my old Pioneer AVR. I haven't even run the Audyssey yet as we move in less than 2 weeks, but it is sounding great. I have a Parasound HCA-1205A amp that has 1 bad channel so I was using it to run the front three channels with the Pio. I am running the 4520 on it's own amps (6.1 setup) but decided to to a comparison putting the Parasound in for the front three, and I couldn't really hear much difference. I think I will use it when we get moved to the new location just to take load off the Denon seeing as I already have it. I sort of miss some features that I had on my cheaper Pioneer (1326-K), like direct access to channel levels, the remote app for the IPad was great with the Pio, I tried an app for the Denon but it is for an IPhone and it's not good so I got rid of it.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

SteveY said:


> I got my 4520 and did a swap out from my old Pioneer AVR. I haven't even run the Audyssey yet as we move in less than 2 weeks, but it is sounding great. I have a Parasound HCA-1205A amp that has 1 bad channel so I was using it to run the front three channels with the Pio. I am running the 4520 on it's own amps (6.1 setup) but decided to to a comparison putting the Parasound in for the front three, and I couldn't really hear much difference. I think I will use it when we get moved to the new location just to take load off the Denon seeing as I already have it. I sort of miss some features that I had on my cheaper Pioneer (1326-K), like direct access to channel levels, the remote app for the IPad was great with the Pio, I tried an app for the Denon but it is for an IPhone and it's not good so I got rid of it.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using HTShack


Tanks for the comparisons for the iPad apps. I am in the market for a new receiver and the App is important. I hear that the Yam app and on screen interface is great. Nice to know that the Pio iPad app is good. I guess I will cross the Denon off my list.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I suppose to each its own, but I actually quite like Denon's IOS App. It has gotten quite good reviews from others as well. While I quite like MCACC, the XT32/SubEQ HT combo is the best I have used.
You can also download all the different IOS Apps and check them out in Demo Mode to decide what you think.

While I have not connected a speaker cable to the 4520, I am sure it would have no problems driving most speakers. However, using 5 electrostatic speakers and owning multiple amplifiers, I am in the distinct minority. That being said, Sonnie is driving ML Prodigies to excellent effect to the point he is now selling his Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks so I might be underestimating the 4520's amplifier stage.
Cheers,
JJ


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> You can also download all the different IOS Apps and check them out in Demo Mode to decide what you think.
> 
> JJ


A great suggestion. 
I have made a spreadsheet comparing the receivers. I have yet to find a retailer with them hooked up to TV's so I can compare the look, but at least I can compare the iPad app.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

TheHammer said:


> A great suggestion.
> I have made a spreadsheet comparing the receivers. I have yet to find a retailer with them hooked up to TV's so I can compare the look, but at least I can compare the iPad app.


Hello,
It is sad to say, but the era of being able to audition multiple AV Components has been over for some time. Far too many of us going to audition equipment at local dealers only to purchase it for hundreds to thousands less online has turned many formerly great places into being Custom Installation almost wholly as that is the one area where these stores can survive.

With the demise of the Tweeter/HiFi Buys/Sound Advice chain, many of us lost the last such place to be able to audition a fairly wide array of components. Worse still, Best Buy is not doing very well to the point that the Founder has offered to purchase it at a valuation that is pennies of the dollar to what it once was even 5 years ago.

Blessed are those who live in a city where they have access to AV Stores that still have a wide variety of equipment on display. Sadly, there are not too many of these places left.
J


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## SteveY (Mar 29, 2008)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I suppose to each its own, but I actually quite like Denon's IOS App. It has gotten quite good reviews from others as well. While I quite like MCACC, the XT32/SubEQ HT combo is the best I have used.
> You can also download all the different IOS Apps and check them out in Demo Mode to decide what you think.
> 
> ...


Jack, can you tell me what the Denon App is called that you are using. The one I was using was only for IPhone, that's why I didn't like it.
I can't wait to get into our new house and hook up my 2 subs and run the XT32/SubEQ HT, this is why I got this AVR.

Thanks
Steve

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

SteveY said:


> Jack, can you tell me what the Denon App is called that you are using. The one I was using was only for IPhone, that's why I didn't like it.
> I can't wait to get into our new house and hook up my 2 subs and run the XT32/SubEQ HT, this is why I got this AVR.
> 
> Thanks
> ...


Steve,
The Denon Remote App that I am using works on the iPhone, iPad Mini, and iPad. It even works on the iPod Touch. https://itunes.apple.com/hk/app/denon-remote-app/id388608880?mt=8

To be honest, I barely use my iPad and have been primarily using my iPhone 5. This extends to the Onkyo Remote App I was using until Tuesday and the Denon Remote App I am using now. That being said, I most often use an old fashioned Remote Control.
All the best,
Jack


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