# My results seem noisy



## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

How do i smooth out the results? mine still seem really noisy for some reason?

Do i need to test ALOT louder?


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

Let me guess, the light green and purple curves are your two front speakers measured separately, the dark green is the sub with the two front speakers combined? 

Are you using a Radio Shack meter? These vary a lot from meter to meter above 3kHz, and I expect the large tendencies above that are all due to the meter and are not real. You would probably be better off taking measurements only up to 3kHz. (You could rescale your existing pictures with the Graph Limits button at the upper right, and reducing the upper freq limit.)

At this scale, the graph does have a hint that there might be small amounts of noise on the low frequency measurements. But these might all be real, room variations too. You could increase the sweep iteration count to greater than one to reduce any random noise effects. To see detail at the low frequency end, the general recommendation is not to use any smoothing. But if you want to eliminate just the tiny variations, you could try looking at the graphs with 1/24 octave smoothing in the Trace adjustments. When looking at the range from 100Hz on up to 3000Hz, you could use the recommended full range smoothing of 1/3 octave. Personally, I generally opt for 1/6 octave on my full range measurements. 

Bill


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Well i set the receiver to "stereo" wich shuts off all the other speakers. I turned the sub off and then ran each speaker hooked to the main speaker wires fromt he receiver.

The dark green is the towers "Jamo S506" then the light green is the center, and the purple is the rear bookshelf.

I put the meter on C weighting and it was also set to "fast responce"

So since these are not subs what would be a good frequency to start and end with? you said 3kz? i just put it at i think 40-1500 maybe 30-1500

I have 5 sets of towers i wanted to test, 6 different center speakers and a couple sets of kenwood bookshelf, some jamo bookshelf, some little pioneer surrounds just to kinda see how each sound on paper compaired to what i actualy hear.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

laser188139 said:


> Let me guess, the light green and purple curves are your two front speakers measured separately, the dark green is the sub with the two front speakers combined?


Does it really look like i have a sub in there? 

The towers are a 2 chamber setup. The top is chambered like a little bookshelf with the top driver crossed over like a midrange and its ported. Then the bottom driver uses the whole rest of the tower and it is ported by itself. It does seem ported for a really low tunning though.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

Seeing the response curve relatively consistent down to 30Hz suggested to me that it might include a sub. I did not notice your descriptions until after I posted. And, actually, I had never looked into how to change the Descriptions, I have always left my measurements with the date/time stamp and kept all my information in the Notes. That's cute. 

If you are trying to compare actuals to factory curves, you might want to measure the front speakers separately, one at a time. Some of the variation in the S506 curve is probably interference between the two speakers. This is an inherent issue when sending a monaural test signal to two stereo speakers. 

You could also try placing the mic near field, say 2' from the speaker, maybe a little farther for your towers, to reduce room effects from reflections. At the very least, this would give a clearer idea of how much of the measured response is from room effects. 

You can further isolate the measurement from room effects by reducing the left and right window, controlled by the Impulse Response control at the upper right, such that the window time is less than the distance to the nearest reflective surface. But this greatly reduces the frequency resolution so it is useless at low frequencies, and I've not yet got the hang of it, myself. 

It sounds like you will be having a lot of fun doing this on several speakers. 
Bill


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## tythebigd (Jul 22, 2009)

The graph is going to be really messy at higher hz. You can use smoothing to make it easier to see. But, doing full range measurements with a radio shack meter is pretty worthless. Like laser said, stick to under 3 khz.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Well i did leave the second speaker hooked up but its like 6 feet away from the one i tested. The weird part is i dont see any results of the second tower when i tested the center and the bookshelf. Weird that it shows up when i just check the one tower.

I was testing them about 2' to keep the level at 80. 

I dont really want to compare my results from the factory i dont even think they have anything ploted for their spekaers. I just wanted to have somthing to share on the forum from speaker to speaker that i own. Maybe test the others i have to see if on paper they are say lacking bass or a tad bright and see if this is what i hear myself compaired to the results.

I have a couple of speakers that others own but i have some that others dont so they could compare what they have to what they dont. If this makes sence? Alot of others have the model E680 so they know what it sounds like. They dont have the S506 or the C605 that i have, so they could see by the REW results how they might sound compared to the E680.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Somthing else i noticed.

I have the meter sitting ontop of an adjustable tripod. The feet have spikes to isolate it fromt eh floor. I think have the meter sitting on some foam in hopes it would further isolate it. Well i can adjust this tripod up and down with this little crank.

I figured if i raise the meter up infront of the tweeter my results would be dramaticly different in the high end part of the plot. When i raise the meter up and down say infront of the second driver, to the center one or up infront of the tweeter i dont notice a big change in the plot. Its good but i just figured that the plot would be alot different infront of each speaker.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

laser188139 said:


> And, actually, I had never looked into how to change the Descriptions, I have always left my measurements with the date/time stamp and kept all my information in the Notes. That's cute.



Oh i changed it with MS paint, i didnt know how to share the results so i just used the screen shot and then put in wich speaker went to wich color with paint so i could tell them apart.



tythebigd said:


> The graph is going to be really messy at higher hz. You can use smoothing to make it easier to see. But, doing full range measurements with a radio shack meter is pretty worthless. Like laser said, stick to under 3 khz.


I thought i got the right stuff, i guess this tells enough. Its alot more fun then i thought it would be i might invest in some better tools i guess.

Looks like ill have to read what its the better microphone and stuff to use now.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

That seems to clear it up alot. Im just looking for an average curve anyway, not real precise just somthing to compare the others to rather then what i hear only.

Thanks i think ive got a base point to start with now.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Wich one looks like a more normal Tower speaker curve?

This one is after i calibrated my sound card using the patch cable. I didnt know i needed to do that. I thought the radio shack calibration file is all i needed. :scratch:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Impossible to tell you tell you what a “normal” tower curve looks like. They all have different capabilities, and even at that they will deliver different response readings in different rooms.

Your graphs look fine, though. Keep in mind that the Radio Shack meter delivers unreliable readings above ~3 kHz.

Regards,
Wayne


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

How do i see other tower speaker results? from other users?

Ive tried to search but i cant seem to find any results other then from subs.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Yeah, it would be a long and tedious process digging through all the threads looking for tower speaker graphs. On top of that, people more commonly use REW for subwoofer measurements.

People more commonly call them "full range speakers" than towers, so just look for graphs where the speakers have significant output below ~80 Hz.

Regards,
Wayne


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

I take it your labels (Normal, Midnight, Loudness) are receiver options. Which receiver are you using?

Bill


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Yeah, it would be a long and tedious process digging through all the threads looking for tower speaker graphs. On top of that, people more commonly use REW for subwoofer measurements. People more commonly call them "full range speakers" than towers, so just look for graphs where the speakers have significant output below ~80 Hz. Regards, Wayne


Thanks Wayne, i never thought to search full range. I did search to try and compare what i got to what others got but couldnt find much.



laser188139 said:


> I take it your labels (Normal, Midnight, Loudness) are receiver options. Which receiver are you using?
> 
> Bill


Yeah its a receiver mode on my receiver. Its a pioneer VSX-D514 i picked it up localy for $75. and a set of 5.0 pioneer speakers i was using before the jamo. I wanted to try and keep them as a set but since i got my bluray it seems they use DTS alot and the H/K i was using didnt support DTS (its an older basic model) so i had to switch it out for this one and i noticed these modes seem to bloat the bass when i change the modes.

It sure sounds like its boosting the bass more then what the graph shows though. I was only testing 1 speaker so when i normaly watch it i have both towers plus the sub im sure that adds quite a bit more.

Its a fun little tool, im getting a little better with it i think.


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## Nuance (Nov 2, 2008)

BowerR64,

The ideal "Tower" or "Full Range" plot will look like a flat line all the way from 200Hz to 20KHz. In your room, however, the line probably won't be flat due to room interactions (many in-room responses slowly roll off as the frequency increases). Still, getting it to a point where it is flat would be ideal. In that circumstance, it would look something like this:


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Yeah i think i have alot of room noise, i think im getting the furnace fan, the CPU fan, the little fridge near the speakers and somthing running upstairs i think is the fridge up there.


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## Nuance (Nov 2, 2008)

Have you taken a look at the impulse response to see if there is too much noise?


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Do these look any better with this SBlive sound card in this machine?

Red is stock and green is with the 2 new speakers and the port. Still some noise but i cant figure out how to adjust the noise out.

Im about to add another port and seperate the 2 drivers with a devider in the top.


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

BowerR64 said:


> Still some noise but i cant figure out how to adjust the noise out.


When you say "noise", what are you referring to? The wiggles in the reponse? Those are entirely normal, a consequence of measuring in-room. You need a large anechoic chamber if you want to see responses free of room influences, the closest you can get in a normal room is to move the speaker as far away from all surfaces as you can get it, place the mic close to the speaker and gate the response to exclude reflections, but unless the room is very large and you have been able to suspend the speaker far from the floor the effect of the gating will be to lose most of the low frequency information.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Just the peaks and dips seem so steep across the whole plot line. One thing that seems consistant is the 200hz drop all of my plots look like this.

What if i put the speaker and meter on carpet and then surround them both with thick blankets? create a dampening barrier between the meter and the room?

This is alot of fun i tell ya, i love this stuff.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

Did this help any you think? it dropped the room noise alot and that 210hz dip kinda smoothed out a little. Wish i had a good laptop i could use outside.

Red is the stock tower, the blue is the one i modified.


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

So if i hook an EQ to the line out of the PC to the power amp and i boost the spots where the dips are is this like EQing the room?

I dont quite understand how to use the eq in REW and i read it over and over and still dont get it.

The directions need basic examples.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Not sure what you mean, "use the EQ in REW." 



> So if i hook an EQ to the line out of the PC to the power amp and i boost the spots where the dips are is this like EQing the room?


Yes, if you want to put it that way. You can't actually equalize a room; it just provides some compensation for the room's effects on the speakers.

Regards,
Wayne


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

I guess i dont understand the program quite yet. The EQ filters. Dont they help smooth out the plot results? If there dips or peaks in places you can apply the filters to smooth them out?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Correct.

Regards,
Wayne


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

well since i dont know how to use the filters just yet i would try and eq the sound before the amp to see if i can smooth the sound to the amp rather then threw rew.

I know its doing it the wrong way but it would still give an idea of what eq settings would help smooth out the room right?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Not sure I get your question, Ronnie. You can’t equalize anything “through” REW. REW is not an equalizer, it’s merely a program to help determine how to set an equalizer.



> I dont quite understand how to use the eq in REW and i read it over and over and still dont get it.
> 
> The directions need basic examples.


Perhaps you could point us to what it is you’re reading but don’t understand?

Regards,
Wayne


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## BowerR64 (Nov 4, 2009)

The EQ filter, if say i have a huge dip around 200hz couldnt i set the filter to boost that frequency so the dip isnt so huge? isnt the eq filters 2 seperate things?

eq/filters? eq would be to boost or add and the filter would be to cut or sift out certin frequencies?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> isnt the eq filters 2 seperate things?


No, an equalizer (EQ) filter can boost *or* cut, like so:










Take a look at the controls of these two equalizers, that might help it make sense. The "Gain" controls on the top (parametric) equalizer sets how much boost or cut the filter will have. Notice they have a 0 dB center detente, with (+) dB values to the right and (-) dB values to the left. The sliders on the bottom (graphic) EQ do the same thing: raise the slider for (+) dB values and drop it for (-) dB values.



















Regards,
Wayne


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