# In the interest of satisfying a discussion...



## dBe (Dec 7, 2012)

"The Ten Biggest Lies in Audio" thread has led me to make this offer to the owner of this site as well as the moderators of this site. I will submit a standard UberBUSS and a Mongo II power cable for you all to review. Let us put an end to the squabbling over these issues. There is a caveat in that not all power amplifiers work well with the UberBUSS. Some SMPS based amps will not like the Uber. Linear power supplies are the target for this type of conditioner. It is capacitive in nature (Power Factor Correction) to provide impedance matching from the standard 120VAC line to transformer input power supplies. This is not to say that it will not work with a SMPS. There are some SMPS that are very happy being supplied by the Uber. As with all things audio, each system is different and what we are trying to achieve is synergy. That is why I do not have a BUY IT NOW button on my website. I want to make very sure that what I have is appropriate for each individual system. 

What say you?

Dave


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I guess I'm not completely understanding...



> I will submit a standard UberBUSS and a Mongo II power cable for you all to review.


and...



> Linear power supplies are the target for this type of conditioner.


Without having read the aformentioned thread, is it a power cord or a power conditioner that we are talking about?


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## dBe (Dec 7, 2012)

Tonto said:


> I guess I'm not completely understanding...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both. Free to use. I want them back............................................................. or maybe someone will buy them............... I bet.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Dave... I see no reason why you can't just let me have those. I know you can handle it. :whistling:

Hopefully we are not squabbling too bad, but rather having good healthy conversation. I think it is very interesting discussion myself... as long as we don't get into heated arguments. I think it effects those who are super passionate about certain things... and naturally it might effect those who have spent big bucks on a particular item to be told it may not have been a wise purchase. So those may take offense to someone saying they may have made a bad purchase decision. 

Right now what I have seen is that there has been quite a bit of DBT proving there are no differences in a lot of equipment and accessories that someone else has claimed there is a difference, yet there have been no DBT proving there is in fact a difference (not that I have found anyway). This is what causes most people that have doubts to have those doubts, and it is reasonably logical to have those doubts based on this information. That does not mean that every piece of equipment that has been made claiming to make a difference has been tested in DBT, so there could be some equipment/accessories out there that actually make a difference. 

As long as there is something to improve on in my system... and it does not color the sound, and it is affordable to a point that I can justify the expense for that improvement, then I would have no issues with it in my system... as long as I can noticeably hear that improvement. 

I think I am a believer in tube amps more so than I was several years ago, even if adding distortion is what they do. I have heard quite a few at the audio shows and I think there is no doubt they have a different sound. Is it better than solid state? I don't know, but I plan to find out. I know I like what tubes I have heard thus far, but there were plenty of solid state amps that sounded good too. What I believe I heard the most difference in at the shows has been the speakers. Of course none of them sounded terrible, but some did stand out a little more than others.

I will be happy to use your setup in my speaker evaluation. I will be using a tube amp, of which is yet to be chosen. I am suspect of my ears and if I would notice a difference... unless it is drastic. However, there will be a couple of guys here that have pretty good ears and we can listen with and without your setup to see if there is a difference. It won't be a full blown review, as I do not know enough about power conditioners to write a complete review. However, we can comment on it... give you some free publicity... and I will be happy to send it to one of our official reviewers who has the setup to fully review and test it.

What say ye?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Sonnie,
Why don't we invite some of the staff to get together one weekend and we can do some DBTs on these as well as some measurements.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

It might be a challenge to get it setup, but we can sure try.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I am willing to drive up if you host. I can bring a scope.

I thought about suggesting the LSU-Bama weekend, but two problems. First, the following w/e is my son's wedding in Louisiana. Second, your depression at the loss to LSU might cloud your perception.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Oh... so now you are really failing at your silly attempt to be a comedian. Bama is on that trail for a THREE-PEAT!!! Roll Tide!

Just make it one of the last three weekends in August during the speaker evaluation... Wayne will be here the 22nd thru the 24th.


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## dBe (Dec 7, 2012)

Sonnie said:


> Dave... I see no reason why you can't just let me have those. I know you can handle it. :whistling:
> 
> Hopefully we are not squabbling too bad, but rather having good healthy conversation. I think it is very interesting discussion myself... as long as we don't get into heated arguments. I think it effects those who are super passionate about certain things... and naturally it might effect those who have spent big bucks on a particular item to be told it may not have been a wise purchase. So those may take offense to someone saying they may have made a bad purchase decision.
> 
> ...


Well Sonnie, I just wrote a great reply, but my chubby fingers and my iPad had a disagreement and we lost it.

Let me just say: Aye!!! I'll write more tomorrow. I'm toasted. What a long day.................

Dave
P.I. audio group

*********************************************************************

Today is a new day. What surprises will this day bring?

No squabbles here. Just trying to make a point. I have a review UberBUSS/Mongo II combo out to an E-zine reviewer right now. It is pretty much a full boogie UberBUSS loaded with Furutech FPX(G) receptacles. Instead of building a new box stock Uber I will have that reviewer send the Uber/Mongo package to you. Makes more sense. I am slammed with orders, had a burglary that we are recovering from, and a lot of "just life" things going on right now. Papa Dave can only be sliced into so many pieces before he ceases to exist. I am a one man shop and I be busy, thank God.

I am a dedicated 2 channel audio guy that came from a musical family who became a musician and I am in LOVE with the music. I am also the son of an electrician that became fascinated with power at an early age. Picture a 3 year old with a bobby pin sticking it into the wall receptacle like he had seen his Daddy do with a circuit tester. I am THAT GUY. That instantaneous connection to the wonderful world of electricity must have done a flashover in my brain to get me to where I am now. The Electricity coming into our home today is not 120V @ 60Hz. It is that plus all of the cell phones, computers, refrigerators, swimming pool pumps, data transmission, radio and TV stations and everything else that can become imprinted upon that simple 120V/60Hz power that we have to deal with in a reasoned, scientific manner to get to the core power. That is what I do. I sell Ugly Black Boxes Full of Quiet.

For me, music is an emotional ride. I grew up in the 60's... think about that. All of the great music and sensual, seductive experience that went along with that. Not to mention the.... well..... you know.......... I am an old man that still remembers sitting at a Cream concert in awe of Eric. That is what I am after. Recreating that "They are HERE!!!" moment.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I hate it when that happens.

Looking forward to your reply.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

lcaillo said:


> I am willing to drive up if you host. I can bring a scope.
> 
> I thought about suggesting the LSU-Bama weekend, but two problems. First, the following w/e is my son's wedding in Louisiana. Second, your depression at the loss to LSU might cloud your perception.


I'm with this guy! Geaux Tigers!!!!! Lol


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

Hey Sonny. I was wondering if you were following along. 



> Hopefully we are not squabbling too bad, but rather having good healthy conversation. I think it is very interesting discussion myself... as long as we don't get into heated arguments.


I think the guys have been fairly respectful and it is appreciated. 



> Right now what I have seen is that there has been quite a bit of DBT proving there are no differences in a lot of equipment and accessories that someone else has claimed there is a difference, yet there have been no DBT proving there is in fact a difference (not that I have found anyway). This is what causes most people that have doubts to have those doubts, and it is reasonably logical to have those doubts based on this information. That does not mean that every piece of equipment that has been made claiming to make a difference has been tested in DBT, so there could be some equipment/accessories out there that actually make a difference.


Keep in mind that I can conduct a DBT to yield results either way. And I have conducted one that got 100% no difference in sound from the panel to 100% all hear a difference with the same system back to back. It is all in how the test is conducted. 



> As long as there is something to improve on in my system... and it does not color the sound, and it is affordable to a point that I can justify the expense for that improvement, then I would have no issues with it in my system... as long as I can noticeably hear that improvement.


Me too man. 



> I think I am a believer in tube amps more so than I was several years ago, even if adding distortion is what they do. I have heard quite a few at the audio shows and I think there is no doubt they have a different sound. Is it better than solid state? I don't know, but I plan to find out. I know I like what tubes I have heard thus far, but there were plenty of solid state amps that sounded good too. What I believe I heard the most difference in at the shows has been the speakers. Of course none of them sounded terrible, but some did stand out a little more than others.


It isn't about added distortion. Some tube amps have really low distortion. The tube amps that you heard in our room at LSAF were very low distortion and had a very low noise floor. You may remember that. 

And please take Dave up on his offer. You may be pleasantly surprised.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Oh yeah... I have been reading it all. I think it has remained fairly civil considering the topic.

The DBT that I have read about all seem to be setup by people who had no dog in the hunt, so to speak... and/or both parties agreed on the DBT system. I don't think there was any fraud intended. More of what I have read about has more to do with solid state amp comparisons... receiver amps vs separates, etc. I have read a couple of power cord and interconnect DBT where there was no difference, but again, it was selected cables... not every cable or cord out there as been tested that I am aware of, so they could make a difference.

I would like to participate in some of the DBT to experience what some people claim to hear. The problem I have is my ears are not that good... and I am not sure how well I could notice a difference in subtle variances... it would probably have to be pretty drastic.


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

Even if no fraud is intended at all they can still be conducted in such a way that keeps people from really being able to discern a difference of any kind. Just imagine taking a group of people off the street and bringing them in for listening test and playing a whole album all the way threw and then making a switch and playing it again. Think anyone would notice a difference?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I'll be able to come up on the weekend of August 24, 25. Sonnie. I look forward to doing my best to try to hear some differences in blind testing.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Danny Richie said:


> Even if no fraud is intended at all they can still be conducted in such a way that keeps people from really being able to discern a difference of any kind. Just imagine taking a group of people off the street and bringing them in for listening test and playing a whole album all the way threw and then making a switch and playing it again. Think anyone would notice a difference?


No... I doubt very seriously anyone off the street will notice a difference, but audiophiles who claim they can hear a difference have not heard differences in the tests I am aware of (outside of the ones you recently mentioned). These were not people off the street. As far as how much music was played, if I remember correctly, it was single songs or clips of songs, and I believe clips of songs the listeners were very familiar with.

Keep in mind that I in no way am saying there is no difference that can be heard between amps and cables. I don't know because I have never been a part of any official testing, whether DB or not, yet I have not heard any differences in a host of amps I have owned over the years... they all sounded the same to me, yet that does not mean there were not subtle differences that I simply did not notice. I have never owned any super expensive cables outside of some Tara Labs cables (speaker wire and interconnects) that I purchased back in the 90's that cost a little bit, but I could not tell a difference between those and any other cables I was using. I doubt I was trying to notice a difference. I did try some of the Tara Labs speaker cable that I believe cost me about $5-6 a foot on my ML Prodigy's, but could not notice any difference in the left over in-wall speaker wire I am using now.

I have heard a serious difference in speakers. If amps and cables would make as much difference in the sound as speakers do, I can guarantee you I would hear a difference.

I would truly like to experience some differences... differences that produce significant improvements in the sound. However, I don't want to spend a fortune to hear subtle differences. I don't think I am after nirvana, but rather just good listening. I have heard some amazing systems with minimal costs and I have heard some amazing systems that cost a bit. I think my home theater system is amazing, and my two channel ain't bad, but I do think it could be better with better speaker placement. That ain't so easy to accomplish by moving big heavy Prodigy's with spikes around the room when it is time to listen to music and then back in their proper spot for movies, which is one reason I am going through this speaker evaluation.

But seriously... I want to experience the differences many claim, but I don't know that I would pay the money for it. The experience does not have to cost me... and I think I would be better convinced that there is an improvement with a fair and balanced DBT conducted by someone who has no dog in the hunt. That just seems the most logical way to prove something to me, so that my mind is not playing tricks on me.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

lcaillo said:


> I'll be able to come up on the weekend of August 24, 25. Sonnie. I look forward to doing my best to try to hear some differences in blind testing.


Awesome... Wayne will be here that weekend as well, so it should be fun.

Dave... will we have your giddy-up by then?

We need to make sure we qualify what we are using for the speaker evaluation to make sure it will be okay with your system. I am not being sarcastic either... but very serious.

OPPO BDP-105 (for CD's)
Denon DP-300F (with factory cartridge)
Rogue Cronus Magnum tube amp with phono input, or a recently released Jolida 3502 tube amp (was considering the 502CRC, but learned the 3502 is supposedly a pretty good upgrade)... these are tentative
TCC TC-750LC Phono Preamp (only in case I choose the Jolida amps... and tentative as well, but don't want to spend a lot)
Various speakers including Magnepan MG12, HTD Level Three, Arx A5, MartinLogan Motion 12, Klipsch RF-62 II, Monitor Audio Bronze BX-6, Vandersteen 2Ce, Infinity Primus 363... and maybe one more. All speaker pairs are $1,000 or less on purpose.
SVSound SB12-NSD Subwoofer
Room: My dedicated theater room (19.5' x 23.5') which is partially treated and I plan to do a little more before the evaluation.

I will have balanced XLR cables from the OPPO to the amp and RCA cables from the amp to the subwoofer. They are RAM Electronics custom cables with extremely low capacitance of 17pF/ft and inductance of 0.094µH/ft, and 80% velocity of propagation, this cable is down just -3dB at 100MHz at 100 feet. The center conductor is 22AWG with a gas-injected foam HDPE insulation, dual copper braid shields for excellent coverage and minimal microphonics.

Connector Features:
• Silver Plated Copper Alloy construction
• Solder Type Termination
• Fits 6-8mm O.D. Cables
• ABS/TEFLON Insulation
• Jewel like finish
• Anodized Aluminum Barrels, (Black and Red)
• "Louver Tech" Center Contact Geometry for perfect contact pressure

Cable Features and Specifications:
Coax - RG-59/U Type
22 AWG stranded (7x29) .031" bare compacted copper conductor, gas-injected foam HDPE insulation, tinned copper/bare copper double braid shield (95% coverage), PVC jacket.

Mechanical Characteristics (Overall):
• Operating Temperature Range: -35°C To +75°C
• UL Temperature Rating: 75°C
• Bulk Cable Weight: 40 lbs/1000 ft.
• Max. Recommended Pulling Tension: 90 lbs.
• Min. Bend Radius (Install)/Minor Axis: 2.400 in.

Electrical Characteristics (Overall)
Nom. Characteristic Impedance: Impedance (Ohm) 75
Nom. Inductance: Inductance (µH/ft) 0.094
Nom. Capacitance Conductor to Shield: Capacitance (pF/ft) 17.0
Nominal Velocity of Propagation: VP (%) 80
Nominal Delay: Delay (ns/ft) 1.3
Nom. Conductor DC Resistance: DCR @ 20°C (Ohm/1000 ft) 12.2
Nominal Outer Shield DC Resistance: DCR @ 20°C (Ohm/1000 ft) 2.4

The speaker cable is also from RAM. Dual-quad wired Canare 4S11 speaker cable sleeved with ViaBlue braid... 11AWG with gold plated locking banana plugs. Direct plated gold over copper connectors. Extreme EMF noise resistance to AC noise and hum.

Will this setup qualify?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

pddufrene said:


> I'm with this guy! Geaux Tigers!!!!! Lol


Dufrene...good Cajun name there. There was a family that ran a famous bakery down south along LA1 in, IIRC, Golden Meadow.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

lcaillo said:


> Dufrene...good Cajun name there. There was a family that ran a famous bakery down south along LA1 in, IIRC, Golden Meadow.


Yap, Dufrene's bakery! They had some awesome French bread. I'm actually from Lafourche parish! I was born and raised in Gheens, I use to work in Galliano. I currently reside in Thibodaux.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

We would stop at the bakery on the way to Grand Isle...great French Bread and donuts, among much other stuff. Old school Louisiana bakery that there are few of any more. I still never get donuts like they made or that were made a the bakery that I worked at as a kid in Plaquemine.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

lcaillo said:


> We would stop at the bakery on the way to Grand Isle...great French Bread and donuts, among much other stuff. Old school Louisiana bakery that there are few of any more. I still never get donuts like they made or that were made a the bakery that I worked at as a kid in Plaquemine.


Ya you right they are becoming for and few in between these days, all the old school bakeries are pretty much closed now.


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