# PC12 or SB12



## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

Hi there - I'm in need of help

I'm about to buy my first sub.
I'm thinking of buying either one SB12-nsd or one pc12-nsd dsp, but I'm not sure which one to choose. My wife will accept the pc12, but is the PC12 as fast and articulate as the sb12 for music? Is one of the two sub's better for music than hometheater and the other way around. 

My livingroom is 16' x 14,3' x 8,7'= 1990 (I live in an appartment with hardwood floors).
Purpose of sub - 50% hometheater and 50% music.

Best regards
Svendsen


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Shack. I think the sealed would be a tad more "tight" for music. However, either one will do a great job. Have fun. Dennis


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks for the respons.
Would this "tightness" be visible in test in Group Delay or other measurements? Peter


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

This is a great question to email to SVS as well, for they will not over sale. You tell them exactly what you want....size of your room, ect and they will fill in the blanks. If you send them a diagram they will even assist in the good location for sub placement as well.

Having said the above....even tho I own to PBU's I am a sucker for the PC models and I would rather have dual PCU's than PBU's...Im dumb as a bog of hammers....:spend:

I would say for music the seal of course would be better, for HT the ported PC will trump...with the PC you will have more placement options, more flexibility with being able to utilize the plugs and most likely more output.


Before I left the States I was trying to find anyone that would swap dual PCU's for my dual PBU's....sure wish it would have happened....I:T love the cylinder!


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

I have talked to SVS - and they think that the cylinder will be equally good at music - but you are both of different opinoin. Why do you think the sealed sub would best for music.

Best regards
Peter


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

I have always heard that sealed subs are better for music...quicker ect. I will not take anything away from the plus line up for it is an awesome sub for if Im not mistaken its on par with the older 12 Ultra.:hsd: Not really are we in different opinion, I feel that if you sent them the same "50%-50% ht/music" info then the plus is going to be the better option they would choose, hence what I thought I was implying in my original post. I wonder if you would have sent them a 75% music or 100% what they would have said.

If you want an even better sub at music and deeper ht performance...look at the Ultra.


What are you using rignt now?


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

I have never had i subwoofer and my front speakers are standmounts from a company called Audiovector - I recently bought a Pioneer Sc-07 receiver and started to build a HT, before that I had a very nice stereo setup with my current speakers and a system from Naim - that's probably why I have quite high demands, when it comes to stereo performance - even though the quality of the stereo sound at my place has already been degraded quite a bit with the transition from Naim-stereo to my Pioneers AVR-stereo.

Peter


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

Oh...you are in for a surprise with the SVS, you will find that "bass" has distinct sounds...not just boom. For instance in the opening battle of Master & Commander DTS...when the French Ship fires its cannons...its in harmony...kind of musical if you will...not just boom..boom...boom.


Get you an SPL meter. :T


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

I'm also pretty excited - but since I'm leaning towards the PC12-NSD DSP there's unfortunately a waiting period until the middle of march before it's available. And I'm stockpiling blu-rays I want to hear with the sub - Transformers 2, Watchmen, Iron Man 2 - and I'm getting the U-571.

Why do I need an spl, when I don't have an sub-eq or BFD? Is there anything to gain? Doen't the Surround receiver adjust the levels?

By the way I've apped a sketch of my Livingroom with subplacement being one of the suggested red markings - do you have any comments to this? :scratch:


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## steve1616 (Apr 6, 2009)

I just wanted the second the PC12 NSD. It offers more rumble for home theater, and the sealed sub being tighter must be a good myth because everyone seems to think it. I don't see any gain to sealed over the ported. I have heard the PC12NSD just very recently, and was very impressed. It wasn't as good as my PB13 Ultra, but I was very suprised that is was closer than I thought it should be. 

You could get the SPL meter to level match your sub to your mains if your receiver isn't capable, but you would be just as happy adjusting it by your ears. The biggest reason, in my opinion, for the SPL meter is to use REW to help you place the sub, but your ears can help you at this also. I used my ears to place my sub the first time. I tried REW the next time, and found out that my ears did a good job of where to place the sub because it sounds best to my ears when the frequency response is flatter. Good luck, and go with the PC12.


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

I have to be honest here, as anyone can tell by all of my rambling above....when I read the opening post for some reason in my mind I was thinking the OP was wanting a PC+ and I never caught on until yesterday. Regardless, for the OP's wants of 50/50 I still think the cylinder is the way to go.


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

Thanks for all the good advice - I think I'm going with the PC12-nsd, but it's funny as I read on suddenly the Pc12-plus seems very tempting, and that's priced pretty close to the pc13-ultra...
It's a bassfilled never ending story...


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

Svendsen said:


> Thanks for all the good advice - I think I'm going with the PC12-nsd, but it's funny as I read on suddenly the Pc12-plus seems very tempting, and that's priced pretty close to the pc13-ultra...
> *It's a bassfilled never ending story*...


And this is why I saved and saved and made do with an Infinty Entra II sub until one day a Rosenut PBU showed up in B Stock and I went with the Ultra right of the bat. I liked it so much it took me another whole year to get me another. My only "regrets/what if's" I have is...the PCU's look cool and are a of a lot easier to move.:rofl2:


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

Should I just order a BFD at when I order the PC12, since it's so cheap?


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

Svendsen said:


> Should I just order a BFD at when I order the PC12, since it's so cheap?




Do have the equipment needed to run REW? If so, your freq response would let you know if you may need one or not. The key to a sub is...location, location, location and REW can help you find the right location as well.


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

having said the above....its all about what you like as well. If you set your sub up and you like what you hear, that is what is important.

But...if you become like most of us....well....its seems to never be enough....



have you started saving for your 2nd PC?:rofl:


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## steve1616 (Apr 6, 2009)

Another cheap option to the BFD is the MiniDSP. It seems like it would be very ideal. The MiniDSP is already supported by REW, but it will be supported better later on this year. MiniDSP is going to come out with some new subwoofer plug-ins, also. I am actually waiting to pick one up later this year just so I can try it out. Definitely run REW first. You may not need any eq if your room is decent enough.


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

Would I notice a large difference between the pc12-nsd DSP and the pc12-plus DSP? And is it worth the extra cash in a room like mine at only 2000'^3? (they are available for shipment now at +75% over the nsd) :dontknow:


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## steve1616 (Apr 6, 2009)

I don't know if it is a lot better. I do know that the NSD is way better than I ever thought. The woofer in the Plus series costs almost the same as the ULTA, but you can buy the sub way cheaper so I wonder if it is just a great deal on the plus series.


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

I just received the PC12-plus dsp - I had to get it - it's amazing. I'm now just waiting on delivery of the radioshack spl-meter. Thanks for all the help. :hsd::hsd::hsd:


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## steve1616 (Apr 6, 2009)

I think you made the right decision. I have read some articles that are comparing the PC12 plus to the PC13 ultra and saying that it is very close to the same. In fact, I thought about picking up a PC or PB 12 myself to go with the PB13 ultra I have that is 2 years old. Subs are awesome. I am either going to buy a plus series or build a LMS 18 Ultra DIY.


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

After some different placement was tried out I ended up in a corner near the right front speaker - plugging one port - tuning freq. 16hz - xo 80hz - with the results below - are they ok:scratch:


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

What AVR are you using, are you using Audy? Just weird how that sucker just drops....but seems to be strong from 35hz or so all the way to 18hz +/-


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

I've got a pioneer lx81/sc-07 and it's got pioneer's own mcaa - but it's doesn't have any management for the subwoofer besides level and crossover frequency.:dontknow:


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## steve1616 (Apr 6, 2009)

I think that looks pretty good for no EQ. Does the PC12 plus have a single PEQ? I am not sure where to tell you to use it. This graph doesn't look bad at all to me, especially since it is a zoomed scaling. Is this graph just one seating position?


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## Svendsen (Feb 4, 2011)

I've already used the PEQ - at 31hz - and also applied roomgain compensation from 31hz at 12db slope (room gain comp. 31hz -12db slope, peq 31hz -3db q5,7). 
This is how it looks with 1/3 octave smoothing - and then the original frequency-responsewithout the above mentioned adjustments.


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

What ever you did your top graph above looks good.....real good.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

You would certainly be surprised how well the SB12 performs and it will only be at higher SPL's that the PC12 will out do the SB sub, for movies anyway and the SB12 may be slightly tighter for music so I suppose it depends on what you're preference is


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## ObliviusConsumr (Feb 3, 2009)

Speaking of the SB12-NSD... How come I've seen so little talk about it? Since they've been shipping for a few months now I'd think there'd be more owner reviews or a professional review or two by now. I'm just used to any SVS launch having a whole lotta hoopla around it. Anybody seen any reviews anywhere besides the one from drdoan (the first SB12-NSD review in recorded history) and Jason1976 (the contest winner)?

(I'm looking to fill the empty spot in my room formerly occupied by a PB10)


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

I would of thought SVS are just trying to fill demands atm and I'm sure there will be reviews in the coming months.


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## warpdrive (May 6, 2007)

ObliviusConsumr said:


> Speaking of the SB12-NSD... How come I've seen so little talk about it? Since they've been shipping for a few months now I'd think there'd be more owner reviews or a professional review or two by now.


the hype machine these days tends to be around the other brands these days.

Most forum people won't get excited about small sealed box subs, because on paper, they are actually fairly fairly uninterestingl (not a lot of bass extension, not crazy SPLs). SVS is fulfilling a need for small box subs that are actually wife friendly but offer good value and quality. But even without good reviews, you know the SVS will perform well, every SVS sub has always lived up to the promised specs, unlike some of the other hyped brands.


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