# Minidsp quality - high end stereo



## amdan

Hello everyone. I was wondering if minidsp is appropriate for a reasonably high end two channel system. I listen to vinyl and cd. The system is a Cary CDP, Michell Orbe turntable, Herron phono stage, Supratek pre, Bryston amp and B&W 802 speakers. Is the minidsp of the same quality?
Thanks.


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## Lumen

The miniDSP DDRC-22 series stereo processors will not degrade your sound. They have 24/96 resolution, and can be inserted between amp and preamp/source (analog version) or DAC and preamp/amp(digital version). If you don't like the idea of digitizing your vinyl while you listen, you can always bypass the miniDSP on its remote. If you get the digital-only version, you can avoid two conversions by feeding it the digital output from your DAC.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## amdan

Hi. Thanks for your reply. Should I infer that the minidsp has an detrimental effect on vinyl playback?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Lou didn’t say or infer that the miniDSP would have a detrimental effect on vinyl. He only said “if you don’t like the _*idea*_ of digitizing your vinyl.” The mini should not have any audible effect beyond any settings you program into it, but some people with high end systems don’t like the prospect of converting the signal out of the pre-amp to digital (i.e. the miniDSP) and then converting back to analog, to go to the amplifier.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Lumen

Not at all. The A/D-D/A conversion inside the miniDSP is handled by top-notch DACs.

EDIT: Thanks Wayne, we crossed-in-the-mail and I didn't want you to think I was referring to your post.


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## amdan

Thanks Wayne and Lou. I guess the key question is - Is the minidsp transparent? Is the system sound quality the same in these two situations:
1. No minidsp 
2. Minidsp between pre and the amp with no equalization set.

I assume there must be some degradation given that there is an extra component in the chain but is it significant? I know there is only one way to find out if it will suit me i.e. try it myself. However I was hoping to find out if it is worth trying before spending $900 to do so. I understand from another post in the forum that the Behringer is inappropriate for a good stereo system. Given this, I wondered how the minidsp would perform.


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## Lumen

amdan said:


> Thanks Wayne and Lou. I guess the key question is - Is the minidsp transparent? Is the system sound quality the same in these two situations: 1. No minidsp 2. Minidsp between pre and the amp with no equalization set. I assume there must be some degradation given that there is an extra component in the chain but is it significant? I know there is only one way to find out if it will suit me i.e. try it myself. However I was hoping to find out if it is worth trying before spending $900 to do so. I understand from another post in the forum that the Behringer is inappropriate for a good stereo system. Given this, I wondered how the minidsp would perform.


A review of the *miniDSP DDRC-22D Dirac Live* can be found here. You can skip over the measurement stuff to get to the listening session at the end. I don't want to lead you astray, because I have no direct experience with the outboard unit. Maybe someone else does, and will check in here to help. I can tell you that it would be easy enough to totally bypass the unit by disconnecting it. I know that's a hassle, but once you hear what Dirac can do for the sound, you'll want to leave it hooked all the time. How do I know that? My AVR has Dirac Live processing, and it works wonders for room and speaker deficiencies.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## hoovie87

I have been in some situations where it sounds a little better going digital all the way until after your DSP. It all depends on your DAC quality. In some situations, it would be hard to tell. Just as my personal rule of thumb, I always go digital all the way then analogue just to the amps and speakers. I have a good friend who is an audiophile. He recorded all this vinyl with a quality turn table down to lossless files on his massive hard drive he has. He said he can't tell the difference and his vinyls won't wear out. Just food for thought.

Regards, 
David

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II


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## bigbwb

Great thread here! I'm also contemplating the use of a high end EQ device for my 2ch setup with subs. My concern is the following:

If using high res files playing through Jriver on a PC, into a USB parasound Zdac dac, into parasound JC2 preamp, then into a parasound A21 amp, would the miniDSp products limit me or degrade the sound in anyway? My goal is simple, I need to crossover the mains to 80hz and send the remaning lows to the sub.....no other EQing or room correction. I'm guessing the DDRC -22a offered the best sound quality?

I guess the thought of adding in another a/d conversion before the amp scares me.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about the miniDSP sound quality, so there’s no reason you shouldn’t be happy with it. Another A/D conversion isn’t an issue with a quality device, but if it concerns you there’s no shortage of professional-grade electronic crossovers to choose from. The DDRC-22a seems like an expensive waste in your situation, if all you need is a simple crossover. 

Regards,
Wayne


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## bigbwb

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I’ve never heard of anyone complaining about the miniDSP sound quality, so there’s no reason you shouldn’t be happy with it. Another A/D conversion isn’t an issue with a quality device, but if it concerns you there’s no shortage of professional-grade electronic crossovers to choose from. The DDRC-22a seems like an expensive waste in your situation, if all you need is a simple crossover.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thanks Wayne. Out of curiosity, what other devices offer XO and sub capability other than the mini dsp? My concern is that the mini dsp and HD version only sample up to 48khz-96khz respectively. I have high res files with sample rates up to 192. So technically there would be some conversion and theoretically a chance for a loss in sound quality.


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## Kal Rubinson

bigbwb said:


> Thanks Wayne. Out of curiosity, what other devices offer XO and sub capability other than the mini dsp? My concern is that the mini dsp and HD version only sample up to 48khz-96khz respectively. I have high res files with sample rates up to 192. So technically there would be some conversion and theoretically a chance for a loss in sound quality.


First, I really doubt that the sample-rate capability of 96kHz will be a limitation because (a) the difference between 96 and 192 is really tiny (if any) and (b) the advantages of the RC in the miniDSP will be of a markedly greater amplitude.

Second, if you want higher sample-rates, look at the DEQX as an alternative.


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## ajinfla

Kal Rubinson said:


> ...and (b) the advantages of the RC in the miniDSP will be of a markedly greater amplitude.


Bingo, we have a winner! 

The physical changes in the soundfield that the MiniDSP is capable of, will be quite audible (via the soundwaves)at the LP, guaranteed. No guarantee on the psychogenic melodrama it might create for an individual, as that varies quite a bit. Definitely YMMV.

cheers,


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## bigbwb

Kal Rubinson said:


> First, I really doubt that the sample-rate capability of 96kHz will be a limitation because (a) the difference between 96 and 192 is really tiny (if any) and (b) the advantages of the RC in the miniDSP will be of a markedly greater amplitude.
> 
> Second, if you want higher sample-rates, look at the DEQX as an alternative.


Thanks Kal! I believe you have reviewed several of the Parasound Halo products in the past. If you were in this position, and needed to crossover over your main speakers and EQ a sub, would you use the miniDSP or equivalent with a Parasound JC2 BP caliber preamp? This and other high end preamps pride themselves on clean, noise free processing. I would hate to go through the expense of upgrading and then defeat the purpose by adding in processing that could degrade the signal.

I have spoke to folks who are on both sides of the fence


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## Kal Rubinson

bigbwb said:


> Thanks Kal! I believe you have reviewed several of the Parasound Halo products in the past. If you were in this position, and needed to crossover over your main speakers and EQ a sub, would you use the miniDSP or equivalent with a Parasound JC2 BP caliber preamp? This and other high end preamps pride themselves on clean, noise free processing. I would hate to go through the expense of upgrading and then defeat the purpose by adding in processing that could degrade the signal.
> 
> I have spoke to folks who are on both sides of the fence


Can you describe more of the system?


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## bigbwb

Kal Rubinson said:


> Can you describe more of the system?


Absolutely!

Speakers - Ascend Acoustic Sierra Towers with RAAL
Amp - Parasound A21
DAC - Parasound Zdac
Source - custom PC for music server running Jriver
Preamp - Parasound P5 (currently)
Subs - Dual 15" Rythmiks
EQ - Behringer FBD for just subs


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## Kal Rubinson

bigbwb said:


> Absolutely!
> 
> Speakers - Ascend Acoustic Sierra Towers with RAAL
> Amp - Parasound A21
> DAC - Parasound Zdac
> Source - custom PC for music server running Jriver
> Preamp - Parasound P5 (currently)
> Subs - Dual 15" Rythmiks
> EQ - Behringer FBD for just subs


Easier than miniDSP. Get a DSpeaker Dual-Core 2.0. Takes digital input from your server, does bass management and EQ, feeds output as digital and/or analog to your DAC, amps and/or subs.


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## bigbwb

Kal Rubinson said:


> Easier than miniDSP. Get a DSpeaker Dual-Core 2.0. Takes digital input from your server, does bass management and EQ, feeds output as digital and/or analog to your DAC, amps and/or subs.


Interesting! I will check it out! Would you feel comfortable using it to crossover your mains?


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## Kal Rubinson

bigbwb said:


> Interesting! I will check it out! Would you feel comfortable using it to crossover your mains?


Yes, if I used the digital output for them and kept the analogs for the subs.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

bigbwb said:


> Thanks Wayne. Out of curiosity, what other devices offer XO and sub capability other than the mini dsp? My concern is that the mini dsp and HD version only sample up to 48khz-96khz respectively. I have high res files with sample rates up to 192. So technically there would be some conversion and theoretically a chance for a loss in sound quality.


Sorry, when I said “if it [the A/D conversion] concerns you there is no shortage of professional electronic crossovers to choose from,” I should have been more specific that I meant _analog_ crossovers. 

Regards,
Wayne


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## AudiocRaver

Do not mean to butt into the conversation. You have already received excellent advice.

I have worked with several miniDSP products, including the DDRC-22D. They will not degrade your sound in any way.


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## tane0019

I'm currently also looking into minidsp DDRC22 series alongside other alternatives.
Seem that the max spec the current market have is 24Bits/96KHz.

My idea setup of course is to put one between my pre and power (which give my flexibilities of having multi-sources, but unfortunately need to go throu extra round of AD-DA conversion).




Lumen said:


> Not at all. The A/D-D/A conversion inside the miniDSP is handled by top-notch DACs.


BTW, what AD-DA are actually being use in 22A ?

In the miniDSP forum, it seem that after passing throu the 22A, there will have a slight hissing sound at the background. Didn't manage to get anything out from their tech support the root cause(s) for this :huh:


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