# Subwoofer port location



## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

I'm under the impression that subs with downfiring ports are less sensitive to room placement than subs with ports in the rear or front.
I have searched and searched for answers to room interactions based on a sub's port/ports location.
Is there a general consensus on room placement as far as what locations should be avoided with the different subs port locations?
I currently have an Emptek Es1010 with down firing ports on the front wall within 3-4 inches of the wall itself. It sides on the right side of my center speaker. I have tried it in the front corners of the room (left and right) and found it to be too boomy for my tastes and puts the "sweet" spot in the attached kitchen. It sounds cleaner near the center of the wall for the main lp's although I am running it around 3/4 gain to get anything useful out of it.
While it sounds good with music and Ok for movies it doesn't quite have the output I was looking for and will be selling it to upgrade.
I'm considering the following with a $600 max budget:
LV12R (rear ported) 
LFM 1 Plus or Ex (bottom ported)
VTF-2 Mk4 (bottom ported)
Pb 1000 (front ported)
With the larger footprints of these subs, I'm certain room placement per WAF will require it to sit to the right of the center speaker again so corner placement will be a no go. It's a sort of symmetrical thing I think.
The room itself is roughly 3800 cubic feet which entails a living room open to the kitchen. Picture a short, fat T shape (acoustic mess) area.
I was initially leaning towards the LV12R for it's musicality and output (highest priorities) but the breathing room needed for the rear port is unnerving. If it's required, it CAN'T sit 10 inches off the front wall.
That leads me to the OA and Hsu offerings with the downward facing ports and the possibly misguided conclusion that they won't need the same breathing room on the front wall.
Or the pb1000 which could be nearly right to the wall but I'm guessing won't be quite enough sub for the size of the area.
Anyone have any input or suggestions?


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## Jeff L (Jun 24, 2014)

port location is minutia in the scheme of things. the size of your room is more important and would dictate bigger is better

psa xv15se
pb2000

both a lil over your budget, save up, that's a big space to fill with your list as you have it. very easy to keep chasing low fq's and output $300 at a clip with marginal improvements. I know because im doing it now, and im now waiting to upgrade another $800 from an xv15se to an xs30se or a triax if my wallet doesn't burn a hole to quickly


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

I guess I should have clarified, that my thoughts were from a music SQ standpoint. Will an LV12r sound boomy near the middle of a wall with the port opening 3-4 inches from the wall? I read in a review that it needs more than double that for proper breathing room?
How does OA and Hsu get away with the port openings being only the height of the spikes (maybe 3 inches) away from the floor? 
Also, while spending more would be fine with me, I'm already on thin ice in the middle of summer. 
As it is, I have to turn the Emptek down for movies/tv quite a bit for WAF.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

When I reviewed the LV12R it was 6-8 inches from the back wall, so anything along those lines will be fine.

The 'boominess' you hear is called a room mode. In essence you're sitting in a spot where the bass has been amplified due to the dimensions of the room and the frequency being played. Move a few feet and it will change. That phenomenon is inevitable I'm afraid, and happens in all rooms. Change the placement of the sub and/or seats to eliminate it -- or at least move the offending frequencies to a less objectionable range -- and you'll be all set. Unfortunately that's not realistic for most people, so the next best solution is to use the auto-EQ that comes with all current receivers (think Audyssey). Every subwoofer capable of playing the frequencies in question will exhibit the same characteristics if placed in that spot.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

Thanks Jman, I keep coming back to your LV12r review from my A vs B comparison searches. Your reviews are well written and concise. 
6-8 inches off the wall translates to roughly at least 26.5 inches deep and I think that's a bit too deep. I'll never get away with a sub sticking into the room that far. I would get an SVS cylinder to stick to the right of my center but the look won't pass approval from the decorating department. 
Your last sentence confirms my thoughts that the right front corner is a no go for any sub.
As far as I know my receiver (RX-A700) doesn't Eq the subwoofer so it appears the best/cheapest solutions would be the Behringer FBQ2496 or DSP1124P. Not ready for that just yet. 
I'm back to the OA and HSU offerings or a used pb 2000/pb12-nsd.


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## Tom V. (Jul 12, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> I guess I should have clarified, that my thoughts were from a music SQ standpoint. Will an LV12r sound boomy near the middle of a wall with the port opening 3-4 inches from the wall? I read in a review that it needs more than double that for proper breathing room?
> How does OA and Hsu get away with the port openings being only the height of the spikes (maybe 3 inches) away from the floor?
> Also, while spending more would be fine with me, I'm already on thin ice in the middle of summer.
> As it is, I have to turn the Emptek down for movies/tv quite a bit for WAF.



A good rule of thumb with widely flared ports is....keep the distance to the wall/floor/etc a minimum of half the port diameter and you'll have near zero chance of audible noise. 

Overall, the placement of the subwoofer in the room will have a far greater impact than which direction the port is facing. 

Iirc the box tuning on the 1010i is around 30hz. The options you are considering will likely extend significantly deeper. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> Your last sentence confirms my thoughts that the right front corner is a no go for any sub.


PM sent.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

Tom V. said:


> A good rule of thumb with widely flared ports is....keep the distance to the wall/floor/etc a minimum of half the port diameter and you'll have near zero chance of audible noise.
> 
> Overall, the placement of the subwoofer in the room will have a far greater impact than which direction the port is facing.
> 
> ...


Thanks Tom. I believe the Lv12r has a 3.25 inch diameter port so placing it 2-3 inches from the wall shouldn't be an issue?
What are the symptoms of a port too close to a wall/floor? Does it exaggerate port noise when/if it occurs?
Will it stress the driver or alter the tuning?


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

theJman said:


> PM sent.


Got your pm. Can't figure out how to reply? Not enough posts?


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Correct you are, but with 5 posts you should now be able to reply.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

Another question:
Would anyone that has heard or owned an LFM-1 Ex consider it to sound better with music than movies?

I have heard an Stf-2 and a Vtf-15h. They both sounded warm to me. They both have a similar sound in the same room or different rooms. Would the OA sound similar?
I have heard a Pb-1000 and it sounded sterile and cold to me which isn't a bad thing to me. I actually liked the way it sounded.


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

FWIW, I own an LV12R and its an amazing sub for the price. Its articulate and plays down to 19Hz with authority.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

3dbinCanada said:


> FWIW, I own an LV12R and its an amazing sub for the price. Its articulate and plays down to 19Hz with authority.


Thanks for the lv12r vote!
How many cubic feet is your room/listening area? I ask due to the size room I hope to pressurize within reason.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I saw tom touch on this earlier, and I think he was indicating some of the Boominess might be from the higher tuning of the emptek. Put that together with a tough spot, and you'll have exactly what's going on now. I agree with the others in that, port direction will have little or no meaning. 
If you're gonna buy SVS, I'd try to budget enough for a pb2k. IMO, your room is too big for a pb1k, or even an sb2k. I have the former, as well as 2 powered cylinders in 6700cuft, and I tried the SB by itself, and at 75% gain it has to work too hard to be really meaningful. With all 3 running, the SB isn't taxed as much, but still works hard. They have a great in home/return/upgrade program if it doesn't work. Not qualified to speak for the other subs recommended. One of them might work better. ...2cents


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

> Thanks for the lv12r vote!
> How many cubic feet is your room/listening area? I ask due to the size room I hope to pressurize within reason.


I think that you will need to opt for a bigger sub than the LV12-R for the size of room you have. Here's what I'm playing with for room size. The drawing was made when I had the old sub. It now sits behind teh left front speaker as the pictures shhow.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

3dbinCanada said:


> I think that you will need to opt for a bigger sub than the LV12-R for the size of room you have. Here's what I'm playing with for room size. The drawing was made when I had the old sub. It now sits behind teh left front speaker as the pictures shhow.


That room looks fairly large from your drawing. And going larger in foot print size is probably not an option for me. I had to pass on a used VTF 15 as there's no spot large enough to place the thing and have it sound good. About the only spot for a large sub would require me to do a nearfield placement and I'm not a fan of that.
I'm starting to consider 2 smaller subs. 2 LFM plus or 2 pb1k maybe? I can't do both immediately but maybe next year I can add the 2nd and a sub eq.
Here is an almost to scale drawing of the space. Sorry, I just threw this together quickly.


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> That room looks fairly large from your drawing. And going larger in foot print size is probably not an option for me. I had to pass on a used VTF 15 as there's no spot large enough to place the thing and have it sound good. About the only spot for a large sub would require me to do a nearfield placement and I'm not a fan of that.
> I'm starting to consider 2 smaller subs. 2 LFM plus or 2 pb1k maybe? I can't do both immediately but maybe next year I can add the 2nd and a sub eq.
> Here is an almost to scale drawing of the space. Sorry, I just threw this together quickly.


You can move up to the F15 sealed sub which is only slightly larger than LV12-R and will easily best the LV12R.

LV12-R
16 (W) "x 22" (H) x19" (D) (20-1/2" D with grille and amplifier knobs)
F15
19"(W) x 19 " (H )x 20 "(D) - (21-1/2" D with grille)

The Outlaw LFM-1EX dimensions as shown are actually larger than the F15. 
Dimensions: (HxWxD) 21.5" x 17" x 24 "


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

3dbinCanada said:


> You can move up to the F15 sealed sub which is only slightly larger than LV12-R and will easily best the LV12R.
> 
> LV12-R
> 16 (W) "x 22" (H) x19" (D) (20-1/2" D with grille and amplifier knobs)
> ...


An F15 would be ideal but it's a bit over my budget this year.
I'm playing with the idea of buying 2 of the Dayton 15" Ultimax and cabinet deals on PE.
The cabinets are not huge and with a bit of planning I would build them into end tables to flank the couch.
I would want to place some spikes/feet in the front baffle so they are downfiring and use construction adhesive and finishing nails to attach 1 inch pine boards to the outside of the mdf box.
The two would be within my budget and if we got 2 end tables out of it I think I'd be able to convince my wife that this is the way to go. The finishing materials would add up but end tables aren't free. Right?
I have never built a sub that needed to look good (like furniture grade good) and the task is a bit daunting but modeling them in winISD with an inuke 3000 looks like 2 will give me more than I need.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

That's actually a rather ingenious way to kill two birds with one stone; you get a pair of subwoofers and she gets her end tables. Score! :T


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I may be crazy, but I feel like the only bird killed that way would be the WAF bird lol. I doubt performance would be as desirable as proper location. Se or no?


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

willis7469 said:


> I may be crazy, but I feel like the only bird killed that way would be the WAF bird lol. I doubt performance would be as desirable as proper location. Se or no?


I am concerned that they won't be in the best spot in the room but with two and eventually some eq, I should be able to get more output and flatter response than one pb2k, lv12r or lmf1 ex in the ideal spot? No? Maybe?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Yeah I think you got the idea. It may not be optimal, but whose is? Lol just do the best you can. I saw you mention cylinders earlier. I love mine, and I think they add a unique aesthetic. Good luck! Curious to see what you do!


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> An F15 would be ideal but it's a bit over my budget this year.
> I'm playing with the idea of buying 2 of the Dayton 15" Ultimax and cabinet deals on PE.
> The cabinets are not huge and with a bit of planning I would build them into end tables to flank the couch.
> I would want to place some spikes/feet in the front baffle so they are downfiring and use construction adhesive and finishing nails to attach 1 inch pine boards to the outside of the mdf box.
> ...


How far out of budget is it? If its close, can you not save just a little longer to get the F15? It would be so worth it.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

willis7469 said:


> Yeah I think you got the idea. It may not be optimal, but whose is? Lol just do the best you can. I saw you mention cylinders earlier. I love mine, and I think they add a unique aesthetic. Good luck! Curious to see what you do!


I like the idea of the SVS cylinders and think one in the best spot would be sufficient for me but the pictures of them didn't pass muster. The black carpet/felt was the issue.:dontknow:
I could probably get by though if I made 2 sealed sonotube endtables using the Ultimax driver and some veneer to finish them. There's a place close by that carries the stuff but I don't believe they carry the larger diameter stuff although they could probably order it. 
I'm just not sure of the best way to brace the tubes? Vertical? Horizontal? Both? Overkill?
I also need my buddy's power tools (think Festool) and he's got work piled up for several months so I'm getting impatient and may not wait to build these if there's any good holiday sales (Hsu, SVS, OA, Rythmik) this year.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

3dbinCanada said:


> How far out of budget is it? If its close, can you not save just a little longer to get the F15? It would be so worth it.


I'd never hear the end of it if I spent that much on ONE subwoofer. 2 subs? Maybe...but probably not.
It looks like I have a buyer lined up for the Emptek so that eases the situation slightly.
Would the F15 far exceed maybe 2 lfm 1plus or 2 pb1k in a 3800 cf area?
The thing that sucks is that I don't need to pressurize the kitchen but there's no way to avoid it.


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> I'd never hear the end of it if I spent that much on ONE subwoofer. 2 subs? Maybe...but probably not.
> It looks like I have a buyer lined up for the Emptek so that eases the situation slightly.
> Would the F15 far exceed maybe 2 lfm 1plus or 2 pb1k in a 3800 cf area?
> The thing that sucks is that I don't need to pressurize the kitchen but there's no way to avoid it.


It would exceed two of either the SVS and Outlaw in terms of output volume and low frequency extension. What the two subs would offer as an advantage over a single sub is smoothing out the bass response in a room when placed properly.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> I'm just not sure of the best way to brace the tubes? Vertical? Horizontal? Both? Overkill?


Overkill. By its very nature a cylinder has inherent rigidity, thereby negating the need for braces.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

+Jman
It's overkill. Neither my SVS, or DIY subs have any.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

3dbinCanada said:


> It would exceed two of either the SVS and Outlaw in terms of output volume and low frequency extension. What the two subs would offer as an advantage over a single sub is smoothing out the bass response in a room when placed properly.


Wow, the F15 must truly be a beast. I would have expected it to easily best the others in terms of extension but it's no small feat to surpass the other 2 options (X2) in the output department.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

willis7469 said:


> +Jman
> It's overkill. Neither my SVS, or DIY subs have any.


Perfect, saves my OCD self from cutting/sanding gluing and screwing oak strips in the tube if I go that route.
It's probably also easier to spray with some sound deadening material if there's no bracing in the way.
Although, would it be better to stuff the tube with foam only? Would spray on sound deadening affect the qtc?
I'm modeling and trying to keep the numbers near the .707 mark.
I know the boxes from PE require 2-3 lbs of fill to maintain a qtc of .707 in a 3cf box.


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## Jeff L (Jun 24, 2014)

if youd like a pimped out cylinder, check these out.



http://www.bossobass.com/Bossobass.com/Home.html


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I think if you're going 3cuft, I'd just do the fill like PE calls for. My DIY sono is ported, and I noticed a difference from using polyfil vs fiberglass. I don't think you'd notice in a sealed alignment.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Jeff L said:


> if youd like a pimped out cylinder, check these out. http://www.bossobass.com/Bossobass.com/Home.html


 awesome!!!


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

Jeff L said:


> if youd like a pimped out cylinder, check these out.
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bossobass.com/Bossobass.com/Home.html


I can't imagine what those would do to my budget but they look IMPRESSIVE.


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