# 3RD floor all concrete room!!!



## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Hello there, 

I am new here but have been reading for quite sometime.... (not enough obviously) but I would like some advice and starting points for a proposed dedicated space that i have. 

The room I have is on the 3rd floor of our home, and is of concrete block (hollow) construction.

The measurements are as follows LENGTH 17' 1" 
WIDTH 9' 8" 
HEIGHT 7' 6"

It has a window at one end and a door opening that needs finnishing, I am at your complete disposal for placement and need sugestions. 

There would only really be 2 people in the room at any one time, we have no children and generally dont have guests over (let them buy their own stuff :foottap I have a Panasonic ae700 front projector and would like first to accomodate the propper seating distance (38% 62% rule IIRC) then look at the needed or possible screen sizes, somewhere around 80 inches I think?? 
I would prefer all speakers behind the screen and out of sight so an AT screen or material and false wall will be needed. 
The front speakers are rather large, with dual 10 inch woofers and 1.5" compression horns. 
The center is also a full range specimen with 2 x 6.5" drivers plus the compression horn.
Rears , are also floorstanding fullrange with 2 x 8" drivers plus the compression horn.
At the moment, I have no subwoofer. But would not mind a DIY effoert (another thread I think)


I would also like to float my floor to attempt to increase the sound transmission loss.. an STC of 60 would be a nice goal, rubber pucks maybe and OSB and drywall sandwich?? any ideas??

I would appreciate any input on layout and where to start basically......

Diolch 
Andrew:bigsmile:


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Welcome to the forum Andrew.

Sounds like you've done your homework. You can float the floor on stud isolators if you want or you can do 2 layers of floor with a good iso-mat in between them. If the room directly below is the issue, then you might also consider double drywall with Green Glue on the ceiling of that room.

I don't know what your budget is for screen but the SMX is the best out there IMO and considerably less expensive than the Stewart or the Screen Research. 

Welcome to the madness...

Bryan


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Good afternoon Brian, 
Thank you for the input, are you thinking on the lines of "u-boats"?? 
As you can see from the measurements I wont want to give much up in the area of Height there, we are right at 90" before I decouple the floor. Thus the idea of neoprene pucks at 1.5" that should still give me room to incorporate limp mass loaded vinyl (maybe floor tiles?) and the double layer of OSB. I am caluclating (please correct me if I am wrong, 3.5" for the height loss before I pad and carpet?? 

The room below is a bathroom, so that will be fine, I am trying to keep the sound getting in as my biggest goal Brian, so the float will be a good start, I dont think I have the width to decouple the walls as well My friend, as it would be just too cramped. I am thinking RHT 60 "chunks" in the four floor to ceiling corners, remaining front wall 703 at 2" Thick (kill it off basically) then I will do JUST the first reflection points, before I run some measurements to find out what my RT-60 time is. I dont think I should be too dead at this point, but man, is she a BOOM BOX at the moment!! I have got to be getting some serious room gain down low:hissyfit:

This room is completely for Home Theater, I also prefer a dead(ish) room. I also prefer monopoloes for rears as DTS is the flavour of the day when i can get it, and diffuse just doesnt do it for me..... Sorry guys... Flame suit on here!! HAHA.

best wishes 
Andrew


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## pranab.beriya (Jun 17, 2008)

Hey i also want to know wht to be done cheapest way for accoustics as the flat below and above mine are not disturbed and also the flat next to me is not distrubed....


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## Guest (Jul 12, 2008)

If the adjacent spaces are not an issue for sound which leaves the room, and they are not a significant source for sound ingress (I would suggest that any air ducts would be your greatest flanking source for such ingress) you don't need to worry about treatment for sound transmission at all.

In this case you can focus solely upon the internal acoustic behavior of the room.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Andrew

No wa you should be losing 3.5" of height just due to floor. If you used something like Dri Core and then built your walls on top of that and used RSIC-1 and hat channel on the ceiling, that would only cost you approx 2" total between the floor and ceiling. This discounts carpeting and drywall as those go up regardless.

Pranab - please start your own thread to address your particular needs.

Thanks

Bryan


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Thanks for the replies.

I am about to start looking into the room treatments and am looking for advice and sugestions.

It is true that I am not really worried about the actual transmission of the sound. When I think about it, for me it is much more important to achieve a reasonable in room frequency response.
However, Unfortunately I do not posess the required equipment to take accurate measurements.

I would like to know if somebody knows of a professional acostician in MEXICO that may be able to assist, and has the required test equipment. 

Best regards
Andrew.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Andrew

I'm not aware personally of anyone to recommend - sorry. You can download Room EQ Wizard and use an inexpensive mic/meter to do the measurements. There is a great tutorial on this site about that free tool.

Transmission of sound OUT OF the room is up to your situation and needs. Transmission of sound INTO the room is important as we want things as quiet as possible for best dynamic range potential. That said, stopping sound getting in generally isn't as hard in a home theater environment as sound getting out (subwoofer). Usual suspects for sound getting in:

- blower motors
- impact noise from people walking above
- other applicance noises (fridge, washer/dryer, etc.)

As mas stated, the HVAC system is generally the best sound flanking path as well as the one that's generally (unfortunately) ignored. 

Bryan


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi Brian, 
Thank you once again for the reply.

This is a 3rd floor instalation, noise from above via footfalls is only likely to come from Birds! HAHA:dumbcrazy:

No air con yet, but will have to look into it. Thinking on the lines of a mini-split.

Any ideas as to what DB noise floor i really should be aiming for? 40db? 50 db? 

Also, for REW to work properly I will need to purchase a new pre-pro. As the one I have now ONLY accepts digital inputs. 

Can you please P.M me regarding some bulk cotton and gom cloth.

Thanks,
Andrew.


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Well,

I have a small update.... 

I have got my sticky little hands on 16 pieces of 703 2" owens corning.

I placed them straddling accross the four main corners (front corners and back corners).
Then 3 pieces in the middle of the front wall to fill in , bottom half only.

Then placed some pieces at the front speakers first reflection points along the side wall.
and ....

Holy Schnitz! what a difference!! I cannot believe that this simple stuff , as itchy as it is, has such a great effect....

I can now CLEARLY hear the planes in Air Force One for example, fly clear around the room.
The bass is tighter.. I will have to get these things installed properly to be able to take measurements, but this stuff really works. :dumbcrazy: Incredible.

I can also get this stuff here for approximately 8 usd a sheet , is that expensive? Guess it doesnt matter now as I have bought 16 pieces of it! hahaha. 
Best "Upgrade" I have ever heard. 

I dont have a subwoofer yet, but one is on the way. I will start a thread on that in the DIY section.
To say that I am impressed is an understatement.

all the best,
Andrew.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

$8 for a 2'x4'x2" sheet of 703 is a pretty good price. If you can get the corners to be 6" thick, that'll extend what you're hearing down into the subwoofer range.

Congrats. You're hearing what proper treatment can do. Don't go overboard. We don't want to kill it too much - just the proper amount and in a balanced fashion across the spectrum.

Yes - it's likely the biggest bang for the buck improvement you'll get in doing a complete system. The room is one of the most important parts.

Bryan


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi Bryan,

Thank you for the reply, 

Would you advocate "Superchunk" style traps with the 703 or should i do the 705 ?

I cant get both here and Also I can get the duct liner for reasonable cost, however, when i check the data on it, it seems that oc703 is a better product in that it absorbs more lower down, anything i am missing? 

all the best,
Andrew


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi ,
Over the weekend I made the "Superchunk" style traps. 
Nothing really worthy of a photo, they look like the usual suspects that one sees here and on other forums.

24" X 17" X17" triangles floor to ceiling in the front corners. The remaining 3 panels I have left are on the front wall too. 

Impressions....
:clap:
They definately extend deeper into the bass region than just the panels straddling the corners.
The low bass on some of the Enya discs I have is insane! Never heard that before :bigsmile:

So far I am very impressed with the results of the Itchy sheets.

I will be purchasing more to do the rear floor to ceiling corners and a few more for my first reflection points on the ceiling and sidewalls.

A quick question for the resident gurus here.

As you can see by my room dimensions (17feet X 9'8" X 7'6") I may need a bit of extra absorption due to the small size. 
Is it acceptable to treat the sidewalls with 2" 703 (lower part upto 48" high)? Then as one goes along add the kraft foil or Paper over some of the pannels to bring the liveness back into the room ? Sort of a backwards approach I feel but i thought i would ask..?

all the best ,
Andrew


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That might work but it might be too much. I think if you're looking for more bass control, that maybe some 4" panels on the rear wall centered behind the seating position would be of more benefit. You can face those with FSK to keep the mid/highs more lively in the surround field.

Bryan


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi Bryan,
Thanks for your help so far, its all good! 

So for the panels on the rear wall, do I go for 2" 703 glued together with the 3m stuff? or do I ask for a 4" thick panel?

And yes, best bass control is what I am looking for...... gets addictive! ha ha!
all the best,
Andrew


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Sure does. Doesn't make sense that you get more, deeper bass by absorbing bass but that's what happens. 

You'll likely not find 4" 703. It's a rare bird and they'll only make it a truckload at a time - literally. If you're going to frame the panels, then you don't even need to use any adhesive. Just friction fit 2 panels back to back in the frame.

Bryan


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## Athomas (Jun 17, 2008)

Hi Bryan,
Thanks, yes, I will be framing them out so that seems like the logical option then just to friction fit them.
I have seen some really nice looking Black Velvet here by the roll, expensive, but very plush.

Would this have an adverse affect on the highs? Maybe even with the FSK underneath?
all the best,
Andrew


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If you want to have some reflective properties in the mids/highs - Velvet is the last thing I'd use. Try Muslin or Guilford of Maine. You want something that's basically acoustically transparent. 

Bryan


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