# CSS DIY Sub - Advice/Tips please



## caper26

Hi guys. Since I am in Canada and looking for a value:money ratio, DIY was recommended to me. I have no idea about DIY, however, I am good with wires/soldering, and building stuff. I have a friend who is in charge of a local wood hobby club who has eons of experience woodworking and they have a massive shop with ALL the tools. He has graciously offered to build the box for free for me; I just have to buy the materials of course. He has no experience building "speakers" per se, but he looked quickly at one of the following plans and said it would be easy to build a 'box'. I was suggested these 3 kits. I have no idea which one would be better or why.
Lastly, *what other materials are required to assemble these kits?* There are no instructions that I could see, only the cutout plans. *Do I need to buy a crossover, other hardware?* Please advise!

CSS Trio12APR15 - C$359.00 Shipping: C$40.00
CSS QUARTET12(TRIO12)B - C$389.00 Shipping: C$40.00
CSS QUARTET12(TRIO12)H - C$469.00 Shipping: C$45.00


*What are the differences in these kits?*
~cape


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## Mike P.

Dual PR's are better choice as when they are mounted opposed to each other they will cancel out any rocking motion. With that in mind the best value would be the "B" kit. The difference between the B and H kit is the H amp has one band of EQ.

You will need to get some closed cell foam tape to seal the driver to the cabinet to prevent any air leaks. It's available at Canadian Tire as window weatherstripping. Get the 3/8" wide tape, it's about $5.

I'm not sure how long the leads are on the amp, you may need a piece of wire to connect the sub to the amp.


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## caper26

Thanks. Also, how do you figure out how many "weights" go on the passives?


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## Mike P.

These kits were designed with a modeling software that takes into account power input, Hi-Pass filter frequency on the amp, driver cone excursion and PR excursion.. The recommended weights for the TRIO12 B and H kits is 10 weights per PR which results in the best low end extension and SPL.

Purple is the recommended 10 weights per PR.
Orange is 12 weights per PR.
Yellow is 8 weights per PR.


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## caper26

Hmmmm. The orange one is flatter overall...I am mostly convered with the low end stuff...
Thanks for the graphs, that REALLY helped. Stuff like this should be included with the "kit". Cheers.


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## Mike P.

How flat the response will be will depend on the amount of room gain the sub gets in a specific location. REW is used to see how the sub interacts within a given room size, adjustments can be made from there.


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## caper26

Can anyone comment on the difference in amps between the 2 kits? (the B & H TRIO12)
BASH500
SPA500
The SPA is $100 more than the BASH for just the amp, but in the kit, is a difference of only $60. I don't mind forking it over if it is worth it. Comments??


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## Mike P.

The SPA amp has one band of EQ, for the price difference it's worth it in my opinion.


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## caper26

Thanks Mike. You have been an enormous help through all this consideration. Pretty set on the trio12 with PRs and the SPA500 amp for $459. Just waiting on shipping info from Bob atm. I started this thread when I did so I would have lots of time to absorb all the info and do my research... Now it's time to create some serious bass...


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## Zeitgeist

Good luck with your project.

If you're anything like me, you'll feel a lot better when you actually have the parts in! That's when the real fun starts... 

But good to have a solid plan!


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## Mike P.

caper26 said:


> Now it's time to create some serious bass...


I assume this is for HT? How big is the room?


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## caper26

~23 X 14 ?? 
Here are 2 pics to give you an idea (at work atm...)
First pic you can see the AV rack on left, and beer fridge on right to give you an idea of width. In the 2nd pic, I took that closer to the TV end. Behind the LP is a little wider at that end of the room.
[PIC1] [PIC 2] Its about 10.5 feet from TV to LP at the loveseat.


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## Mike P.

The TRIO12 will do very well in that size. You mentioned in your other thread about installing a sliding door to block off the HT area. Are you still considering that?


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## caper26

yes...always a consideration. Here is a quick ms paint top view (not to scale, lol). The red would be a "sliding door" from floor to ceiling...kinda like a french door, but not inside the wall... I find when I leave the room, there are some bass heavy hot spots in various locations...


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## Mike P.

I have the same issue, a 30 foot hallway leading from my HT room, lots of bass at the end of the hallway.


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## caper26

Ordered the Quartet Trio12 H !! wooo hooo !


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## caper26

Mike P. said:


> You will need to get some closed cell foam tape to seal the driver to the cabinet to prevent any air leaks. It's available at Canadian Tire as window weatherstripping. Get the 3/8" wide tape, it's about $5.


Mike, what other tips you got, ie, type/brand of glue, etc. I don't want to F this up at all and want the best materials available for the build. Do you have the part number for the weather stripping you mentioned (or product link?). Thanks!! This pile of boxes sitting in the corner is making me antsy in my pantsy!
.
EDIT: Is [THIS] the weatherstrip


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## SubNub

Not sure it really matters the specifics for the weatherstripping, (the stuff you linked looked fine). 

I have just built a sonosub using Weldbond glue for the endcaps, seems pretty good stuff.


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## caper26

vacation is over. time to pay dues at the hobby club and start the project, hopefully early sept!!


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## Mike P.

Sounds good. A build thread with pics would be nice!


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## caper26

had to go overseas for a bit. 

@Mike: Would there be a problem using real wood, for example, Maple, to use for the box, and MDF for bracing? Just thinking about the finish... wouldn't mind a stain/varnish rather than black. My wood hobby expert said Maple is harder than MDF. Please advise!


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## Mike P.

Do you mean solid maple or a plywood with maple veneer on one side?


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## caper26

solid lumber.


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## Mike P.

Not a problem, make sure it's adequately braced.


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## caper26

great! Thanks. I was planning on using the same cut sheet as the 24" cube you sent me, including internal bracing.


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## Mike P.

That will be fine.


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## caper26

well, finally got underway today. Decided on MDF since I didn't want to cut & build panels out of maple, only to throw a bunch away when the holes were cut. Didnt get much done except all the panels cut out. Went with a 24" cube cutsheet as Mike P recommended! Sucky thing is that the guy who is helping me is going away for next 2 weeks  but will have the shop open a lot before xmas. Nice working in a wood shop with ALL the tools and space etc. Didn't take any photos today but I will from now on (pretty sure everyone has seen a table saw before!). Great to finally get started!


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## caper26

caper26 said:


> EDIT: Is [THIS] the weatherstrip


Hmmm, the stuff seemed kind of thick when I was looking at it in the store. There was lots of 3/8", but varying thicknesses. I ended up getting 5/16" thick I think, but there is also 1/4" thick stuff available. Does it really matter ?? My gut was telling me to get the 1/4"


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## Mike P.

I've always used the 1/4" thick x 3/8" wide. 5/16" thick will work just fine.


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## caper26

Mike P. said:


> I've always used the 1/4" thick x 3/8" wide. 5/16" thick will work just fine.


got some more work done today, so a few more questions, first being the weatherstrip: Do I use it on the PR's and amp as well as the main driver?

Also, there were 10 extra wood screws in with all the gear...not sure what these are for since the amp uses 12 and comes with its own screws, and the woofer & PRs all use those machine screws with inserts.

Last question, and this one I could really use an answer on tonight: Is a front baffle useful? I was going to do a flush fit with everything but we don't have a 3/4" rabbit for the speaker flanges. So I was thinking of doing PRs surface mount and 2 options for the baffle::

Use a leftover 3/4" piece of MDF and cut a hole in it 1.5" larger (diameter) and glue it to the front panel. This will mean the speaker is not flush, but actually INSET (I doubt this is good)
Buy a 3/8" thick piece of MDF and use it as a baffle with dimensions described above. The speaker flange will be about 1/8" protusion. 
What do you think?


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## Mike P.

Weatherstrip the driver and PR's, and the amp if it doesn't have a gasket.

Disregard the extra screws.

You can use a leftover 3/4" piece of MDF and have the driver slightly inset, that's not a problem. Or you can surface mount the driver and PR's and make your own grills like I did. See here, post #39.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...1-creative-sound-solutions-sdx10-sub-kit.html


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## caper26

thanks for the quick response. So just gasket the back of the back of everything and put holes in it when the screws go in? 

yeah I thought about doing that for the grills but we dont have a great tool for cutting holes...It was quite a pain actually, using a rotozip, then sanding it out with a machine (pics to follow tonight in my build thread I am starting.) I definitely dont want to do that again 6 more times :explode:


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## Mike P.

If the gasket is narrow enough it will fit between the holes and the frame.


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## caper26

Thanks. So will carpenters glue be ok for the inserts or is hot glue recommended? Also, build thread created [HERE]

I also wanted to ask about lining the inside...foam, etc... should I use it?


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## Mike P.

Use hot glue, carpenters glue won't stick to the metal inserts.


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## caper26

Just lost my post, so here goes again: I just figured out that your inserts are different from mine. I have a threaded insert as seen leftmost here:







.
and you have hurricane nuts. I never used hurricane nuts before, but I couldn't figure out why you were putting them in backwards, because with the threaded ones at least, the machine screw will want to unscrew the threaded insert if it were used from the back side of the wood. Also, I was thinking of buying an epoxy instead of using hot glue to use with the inserts. what is your take on that? Actually, I think you recommended gorilla glue to someone but I cant find it, and just read someone else that it was good to use too...I think i will use that if there are no objections. Oh yeah, I will be using a locking nut (or nut & lock washer) on the back side of the machine screws on the driver at least for added security


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## Mike P.

I have Tee Nuts. A hole is drilled just slightly bigger then the center shaft and the Tee Nut is hammered in from the back so the tines grab the wood. Then hot glue is used around the perimeter of the Tee Nut.


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## caper26

right on. I thought we both received the same hardware and was trying to figure out why you went on the reverse side with a threaded insert, lol! Anyway, I already drilled most of the holes yesterday if you check out my build thread...using the insert with gorilla glue and a locking washer on the backside should work fine I think.


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## Mike P.

My kit did come with Hurricane nuts, I just chose to use the Tee nuts I had on hand at the time.


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## caper26

Hey Mike, I need to start looking ahead at finishes, etc. Is there a particular primer/sealer required for MDF or is any run of the mill stuff ok? And what about paints? I was considering going with a cool Krylon Fusion finish. I was just wondering if spraypaint will require a protection coat over top...again, I have never wood worked before and only ever painted walls in my house, and some parts of my truck with Krylon Fusion.
Oh yeah, also curious about lining with foam or other material.


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## Mike P.

I used a latex primer and it worked well with a couple of coats on the edges of the MDF which really soak it up. I don't know anything about Krylon Fusion but I did use spray on bed liner from Canadian Tire:

http://www.canadiantire.ca/AST/brow...75608P/EZ+Liner+Aerosol+Coating.jsp?locale=en

If memory serves me it took 4 cans to do a 18" cube.


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## caper26

I've heard of bed liner a few times now.... what's so special about that????


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## Mike P.

It goes on easy, covers up minor imperfections and has a tough finish. If I had to do it over I'd use the roll on kind.


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## Zeitgeist

I used Acrytech Duratex (roller grade) and I absolutely loved it. Might be pricey for Canadian customers though. Durable nice finish.

I did quite a bit of research reading about different coatings before choosing it. Most bed-liner coatings aren't much cheaper from Duratex - based on prices I found.


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## Mike P.

Duratex is sold in Canada by loudspeakers.ca for $55 a gallon.

http://www.loudspeakers.ca/Qmedia/Duratex01.pdf


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## caper26

it is actually quite cheaper than this stuff, which is $40 for a quart (not gallon!) [Duplicolor Bed Armour]
The duratex seems like the most economical solution even with the shipping. I believe this is the one I need: DuraTexRG


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## caper26

so hot glue or silicone for the inside seams??


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## Mike P.

Either works fine, the silicone would need to cure before you can mount the sub or PR's. It's said the fumes eat the glue that's used in the manufacturing process.


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