# Epik Empire or SVS PB12-Plus



## Rippyman (Apr 20, 2011)

I'm certain this has been brought up before, but I'm curious to know if there is a user on these boards who has owned both subs and can offer a comparison of the two?

Epik Empire has a sale on their sub right now $799 which seems like a good deal.

I'm curious to know if its worth the savings vs the SVS PB12-Plus?

Thanks,

B


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Bump. Anyone have an opinion?


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

I too are looking for a sub but I don't think it's a good comparison. The SVS PB12-Plus is a bigger sub. You probably want to compare just the SVS PB12. I'm leaning towards the SVS though as everyone has told me they are awesome. Tired of also researching...


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## Bass Hz (Feb 9, 2012)

My pb12 plus came in on Thursday and I can at least speak to what I have read while doing my research. Hands down was the purchase I needed to make! I started with SVS looking at the pb12-nsd which had rated good sound at a respectable price, which are more comparable to the Epik sub. I was worried about disappointment if I went that route so I looked at and ended up with the pb12 plus and so far no disappointment. Of course the tuning and tweaking is not over, but the first impressions leave me with no regret that I didn't go with a different sub. 

I wish I could help with a sound impression for the Epik but I'm just passing on what I can because the same kind of info helped me with my decision.

Best of luck!


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## phantom52 (Feb 12, 2012)

I'm getting that SVS PB12+ delivered this week. After much research it also ended as my sub of choice. I was locked on several different brands, did a lot of reading and had set a budget. Ended up going over budget with the SVS. Hopefully it will be my HT purchase for a while. My other choices were the HSU VTF-15H and one of the Rythmik Subs. The Rythmik I wanted to get was the F15HP. It just seemed to me that SVS was more flexible and got very good reviews. Besides that I had always wanted an SVS sub. Now to find out if it is everything I wanted for my room. Very helpful people at these three vendors.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

The reviews for the HSU and the Velodyne caught my eye too. Man too many choices!!


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## Bass Hz (Feb 9, 2012)

I wanted a velodyne as well when I started my quest for a subwoofer. I do not doubt that they have good speakers, but once I started comparing models I was interested in to other brands I came across SVS. I originally wanted a sealed application because it has always been my preference but realized I might limit myself in performance and tuning, so when I found the pb12 plus and the pb13ultra had 3 tuning options I really got interested and hooked with going with the 12. 
The Hsu was one that got thrown in as major competition with the SVS subs, but I couldn't justify choosing the Hsu simply due to SVS bill of rights,which include 45 days to try it out. Since they were close in overall size the edge was the flexibility of tuning as well as other perks the company offered with warranty and ability to upgrade. You do have some good companies to choose between, and unfortunatley didn't get to test my ear to any before purchase yet I'm glad I went with SVS!


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

If I get the SVS it would be the PB12 and not the plus. Too much for me for now; I will get two though but one for now and the other for later. I have to make a purchase today! Well I don't have to but I would like to. I get to get this crossed off; I have other things to still finish.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

I've never seen the Empire directly compared to the PB12-NSD, too bad, because it would be a very interesting contest.

I strongly suspect (without any hard numbers for evidence) that the PB12-Plus would slay the Empire, however.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Rippyman said:


> I'm certain this has been brought up before, but I'm curious to know if there is a user on these boards who has owned both subs and can offer a comparison of the two?
> 
> Epik Empire has a sale on their sub right now $799 which seems like a good deal.
> 
> ...


I have not listened to either one as of yet. I would recommend the ported PB12, it should play louder around 20-25 Hz if your room is open to other rooms. The Empire would do very well in a sealed room, possibly digging deeper than the PB12. Hope this helps.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

tesseract said:


> I have not listened to either one as of yet. I would recommend the ported PB12, it should play louder around 20-25 Hz if your room is open to other rooms. The Empire would do very well in a sealed room, possibly digging deeper than the PB12. Hope this helps.


Yep as I've been advised you want a seal sub with a sealed room. You get much better performance and sound. My HT is in the basement and it is sealed meaning all doors closed with a small opening outside of the HT room itself. That being said I'm now sold on the sealed sub and will be going with the Epic. The shootout also revealed it performed well. I have not seen a lot of thread on them though but of course we all know how this works. Oh the other thing that caught my attention with the Epic is that it apparently produced some very good mids which I also love. SPL is great but I need clarity and clean sound. If I can get that out of the Epic Empires that I'm a happy camper.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

OK so I'm a little frustrated. I just went to purchase the Epic and I have to pay shipping ($139). All the other subs provide free shipping. Now instead of $799 I'm looking at $938 which changes my price comparison a little. Hmmmm I tried calling but no one picks up the phone. How do you contact these people? Not a good start! Mind is slowing changing..,


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

DESCypher said:


> OK so I'm a little frustrated. I just went to purchase the Epic and I have to pay shipping ($139). All the other subs provide free shipping. Now instead of $799 I'm looking at $938 which changes my price comparison a little. Hmmmm I tried calling but no one picks up the phone. How do you contact these people? Not a good start! Mind is slowing changing..,


Pick up the phone and call SVS and see how their response compares. Might make your decision easier.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I haven't heard either sub but going by specs and quality i'd go for the SVS.:T


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

DESCypher said:


> OK so I'm a little frustrated. I just went to purchase the Epic and I have to pay shipping ($139). All the other subs provide free shipping. Now instead of $799 I'm looking at $938 which changes my price comparison a little. Hmmmm I tried calling but no one picks up the phone. How do you contact these people? Not a good start! Mind is slowing changing..,



Consider this. The Empire comes with two 15" drivers, giving it the surface area of a single 21" driver. It's manufacturing costs are likely higher than the PB12, and it fits the application better.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

bambino said:


> I haven't heard either sub but going by specs and quality i'd go for the SVS.:T


Both the Empire and the PB12 have decent specs and quality. 

The main difference here is the application. A sealed sub with lots of throw works best in this situation.


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## MikeBiker (Jan 3, 2010)

DESCypher said:


> OK so I'm a little frustrated. I just went to purchase the Epic and I have to pay shipping ($139). All the other subs provide free shipping. Now instead of $799 I'm looking at $938 which changes my price comparison a little. Hmmmm I tried calling but no one picks up the phone. How do you contact these people? Not a good start! Mind is slowing changing..,


That is always a problem in comparing prices. When I was shopping I had to go to each manufacture's website and find out what the price with shipping was. Most people, on the web, post prices without considering the shipping cost, which on subs is a lot. SVS looks before expensive than they are because the shipping is included in the price.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

tesseract said:


> Both the Empire and the PB12 have decent specs and quality.
> 
> The main difference here is the application. A sealed sub with lots of throw works best in this situation.


I can't agree about quality (look at the subs and amp used in SVS) the only thing i can agree on is price to performance ratio which is if it was a factor in my book i'd go for the Epik.:T


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

The concern this has raised for me though now is question their support. I mean if a phone rings and no one picks up then why have it? Also in reading their terms while I have 30 days to return it appears I will be shipping this at my cost. Now this might be the norm for all of these subs; I don't know because I haven't compared. I don't mind email support if that's what they say they provide but don't list a phone and give me the whole we're busy helping other customers default speech. I really do like the sub based on what I have read. I like they way they say it performs. Fits my style of subs. My cars have always had a sealed sub that produces tight and deep base. I have always had a custom sub build for my vehicles. I'm hoping this is the same. My other other choices are the SVS or the HSU. I would like to go with sealed but the SVS sealed sub doesn't look like it fits the bill and I have not really seen a lot of reviews on them.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

Changing up the topic a little. Woud you all also recommend getting two SVS SB12-NSD over one Empire? I will eventually get two subs but I could get two now with the price of the SB12's. What do you think? I know the Empire is more powerful though.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Call SVS. Seriously. Get the recommendations straight from the horse's mouth. It's a free call: (877)-626-5623


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

KalaniP said:


> Call SVS. Seriously. Get the recommendations straight from the horse's mouth. It's a free call: (877)-626-5623


Won't they be biased though? I guess I could ask them to compare that to with their own product and not the Empire and still get the correct answer. I'll try that.

Thanks


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

Just spoke with Ed; great guy! I also learned some great things about the company. It turns out that they will walk you through the setup of your system to ensure you're getting the best sound out of your subwoofer which is great for me. Also if I purchased two at once he would give me 5% off; not huge but every little thing helps and it's free shipping. A little over $1400 for two as opposed to $1100 for one HSU sub. Hmmm I guess I know where I'm leaning now!!!


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

I just wanted to report that I've PLACED my order for TWO PB12-NSD. Almost went the PC12 route too but decided to go the box route. Can't wait till it gets here. It's possible I will get them on Saturday but if not Monday which I'm fine with too. My room isn't complete yet anyways. Yay!!


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

That's awesome! I've got one and it rocks my room. I can only imagine the destruction you'll cause with two.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

bambino said:


> I can't agree about quality (look at the subs and amp used in SVS) the only thing i can agree on is price to performance ratio which is if it was a factor in my book i'd go for the Epik.:T


I have looked at the Epik stamped steel baskets and the amp. They have been using that amp for years. You really cannot tell anything by looking, listening and measurements tell the story.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

DESCypher said:


> I just wanted to report that I've PLACED my order for TWO PB12-NSD. Almost went the PC12 route too but decided to go the box route. Can't wait till it gets here. It's possible I will get them on Saturday but if not Monday which I'm fine with too. My room isn't complete yet anyways. Yay!!


Good move getting TWO subs. :T These should augment the CM9's just fine.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

DESCypher said:


> Just spoke with Ed; great guy! I also learned some great things about the company. It turns out that they will walk you through the setup of your system to ensure you're getting the best sound out of your subwoofer which is great for me. Also if I purchased two at once he would give me 5% off; not huge but every little thing helps and it's free shipping. A little over $1400 for two as opposed to $1100 for one HSU sub. Hmmm I guess I know where I'm leaning now!!!


I had a feeling you might change direction once you had a chance to speak with them. 

Congrats on your dual PB12-NSDs! I'm jealous... I really want my lonely PB12-NSD to have a friend to play with, too. LOL :hsd:


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

tesseract said:


> Good move getting TWO subs. :T These should augment the CM9's just fine.


I'm hoping so! Just can't wait; Christmas came early! haha


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

KalaniP said:


> I had a feeling you might change direction once you had a chance to speak with them.
> 
> Congrats on your dual PB12-NSDs! I'm jealous... I really want my lonely PB12-NSD to have a friend to play with, too. LOL :hsd:


Yes the guy was really cool. My seats also got delivered today! Things are coming together.


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## Nuance (Nov 2, 2008)

For your viewing pleasure (it'll give you a good idea of what to expect):


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

tesseract said:


> I have looked at the Epik stamped steel baskets and the amp. They have been using that amp for years. You really cannot tell anything by looking, listening and measurements tell the story.


Not to start an argument but maybe my eyes are different then yours, a cast basket is obviously more solid and better built ( depending on the company) and the amp is all new with better tecnology. 

Can't say anymore then go for the SVS unless your looking at price then go for the other.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Driver looks and new technology is nice, but doesn't tell us how a sub sounds. I am sure the PB12 is a great sub. But we shouldn't discount the Empire on looks alone. 

Stamped steel baskets are shaped to be very strong, resisting flex in the plane of the driver's motion. Cast baskets, especially in mid to entry level subs, are a good marketing move but not necessary to reign in a driver with average Xmax. I remember when JL Audio used only stamped steel baskets in their car audio products. 

Stamped steel in the Empire's case gives it another important advantage. It allows for two drivers at a lower cost. Two 15" drivers have the same cone area as a single 21" driver. This addition surface area will affect the sound much more than the basket will. :nerd:

Amplifiers haven't changed much over the last 40 years. I would expect any small audible differences between the two amps to be completely over shadowed by the lower distortion of two large drivers moving massive amounts of air effortlessly in comparison to a single 12".

One more matter to consider. Resonance is another source of distortion. The dual opposed nature cancels out box vibration. Mark Seaton had me place my hand on his SubMersive HP while it was pounding near it's limits. There was absolutely no vibration at all. It was a weird experience!


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## ulalazavod (Feb 22, 2012)

Hy! I am new here. I here the Epic and the SVS. The SVS has much more dynymic. He play depper and cleaner as the Empire.


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## Nuance (Nov 2, 2008)

ulalazavod said:


> The SVS has much more dynymic. He play depper and cleaner as the Empire.


Actually, with room gain the Epik might very well play "deeper," and it's also more "dynamic" above 40Hz. With that said, I'd still take the PB12-PLUS.


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## DrFunk (Jan 28, 2011)

Also, if anyone looks at the chart linked to above in this page, the Empire plays louder than the PB12-NSD in all frequencies and plays lower. There have also been several shootout threads on AVS forum that have the Empire in it vs other big boys and it holds its own.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

DrFunk said:


> Also, if anyone looks at the chart linked to above in this page, the Empire plays louder than the PB12-NSD in all frequencies and plays lower. There have also been several shootout threads on AVS forum that have the Empire in it vs other big boys and it holds its own.


Except for ~20Hz. Not sure of distortion levels regarding the two.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> Except for ~20Hz. Not sure of distortion levels regarding the two.


Sealed subs roll off sooner than ported subs do when measured outdoors. In room gain (which I break down into pressure vessel gain and boundary reinforcement) and EQ makes up the difference, and can even give a properly integrated sealed sub the advantage.

Sealed subs dig deeper than ported subs do, as ported subs roll off very rapidly under port tune, something you DO NOT want to try and compensate for with EQ. To the contrary, a high pass filter is generally needed to avoid bottoming the driver.

I would expect the distortion level of dual opposed 15" drivers to be less than a single 12" at reference level listening.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Sounds like a deal then...


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Both are great subs, I am sure. It is simply application dependent. Sealed room, sealed subs. Open floor plan, ported subs.



tesseract said:


> I have not listened to either one as of yet. I would recommend the ported PB12, it should play louder around 20-25 Hz if your room is open to other rooms. The Empire would do very well in a sealed room, possibly digging deeper than the PB12. Hope this helps.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Rippyman said:


> I'm certain this has been brought up before, but I'm curious to know if there is a user on these boards who has owned both subs and can offer a comparison of the two?
> 
> Epik Empire has a sale on their sub right now $799 which seems like a good deal.
> 
> ...


Rippyman, curious, did you decide on a sub?


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## Rippyman (Apr 20, 2011)

tesseract said:


> Rippyman, curious, did you decide on a sub?


Yep!

Latest edition to my HT room. SVS PB13-Ultra


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## MikeBiker (Jan 3, 2010)

An outstanding choice.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Very nice! :hsd:


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