# Poor mans projector? Help please



## Guest (Oct 21, 2007)

I am just an average guy with a very average budget($1200.00) and you all have inspired me to pursue a theater of my own. That being said I was wondering what the best choice for my budget would be.
91" ceiling
12' ceiling depth before a soffet
Basement area with controllable light
Need to be able to enjoy Cable as well as Movies
Screen suggestions would also be helpful

Thanks for all of your time and knowledge throughout the site.
Billmd


----------



## Rajesh (Jan 2, 2007)

$1200 sounds a good budget to me though . I am thinking of the projector HD-70 OPTOMA for $999 or less .


----------



## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

Also take a look at the Panasonic AX200u.


----------



## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

I'm not up on current projector prices, but you should be able to get something in a 720p LCD or DLP for that price now (mine was $2k over a year ago, Sanyo Z4).

projectorcentral.com has a ton of research, calculators, and information.

I got mine from visual apex, but also have heard good things about projectorpeople as well. And of course, if Amazon sells it, you can always check out the Shack store and the Shack gets a cut of the profits (and it's the same shipping and inventory as Amazon).

As for screens, I splurged and got a fixed frame Optoma Greywolf II 92" for around $500. The pull down versions are much cheaper, but can have waves over time. There's a big "paint one yourself" contingent here that can chime in as well. I'm not a fan of those because I know how fickle drywall can be  There's probably not a straight wall in my entire house.

Good luck,
Anthony


----------



## cynical2 (Jul 18, 2007)

Anthony said:


> I'm not up on current projector prices, but you should be able to get something in a 720p LCD or DLP for that price now (mine was $2k over a year ago, Sanyo Z4).
> 
> projectorcentral.com has a ton of research, calculators, and information.
> 
> ...


True, you run a risk with cracking/"straightness" if you paint your wall directly, but there are many other alternatives for DIY screens. For instance, there are several laminates that give outstanding performance "straight out of the box", or you can paint a substrate (other than your wall).

I'd encourage you explore the DIY screen forum and ask for input based on your needs. You can get great performance at a fraction of the cost of a commercial screen (if you're willing to use a little bit of elbow grease).

Regarding the pj, I have the Panny AX100Y (predecessor to the 200), and can HIGHLY RECOMMEND it.

Good luck!
Jim


----------



## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Sharp 3K or Sharp 12K(awesome PJ, probably the best 720p)...although they run $1300-$1500.
If you simply cannot stretch it then the Panny ax200 or Mitsubishi HC1500.
-jmo


----------



## Shred (Feb 11, 2007)

Optoma HD70 + necessary cables + DIY screen should fit in the budget.
If DIY screen is out of question then maybe you should consider buying used screen.


----------



## Guest (Oct 23, 2007)

For screens, you might also want to check out laminates, such as Wilsonart - I have heard many with good results, and its around $60-80 or so per sheet (4x8 - can also get larger sheets if needed)


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Aki Salento said:


> If DIY screen is out of question then maybe you should consider buying used screen.


Good idea although getting even a 82" diagonal screen used will cost about $200 You can paint on a screen for far less and get a larger size in the process.


----------



## Guest (Oct 24, 2007)

I just picked up an Acer PH530 for around $600 - can't beat it for the $$$. Picture looks fantastic. I'd also consider the Optoma HD70 and the Mitsu HC1500 which are both fantastic projectors and a notch up in performance above the PH530. Both of those can be bought for well under $1k if you search. As far as the screen goes, I have a DIY Do-able board screen from Home Depot and it looks great. I bought some 3.5" base molding and some velvet and made an awesome looking screen for under $100. I also made a screen from some fabric from dazian - cheap and looks great too. If you don't want to make your own screen you should check out Elite screens - they have some very affordable screens as well. Monoprice has great prices and quality cables. Good luck. 

Randy
The Home Theater Brothers


----------



## polygonkilla (Apr 7, 2007)

I've heard alot about the Acer - great price.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I picked up my Sanyo Z2 for $600 (new bulb) about 6 months ago. I am very happy with it. I bet now you can find a Z4 for close to that price. Sanyo has been the surprise in the projector race as they really make a nice unit with lenz shift and all.


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2007)

Maybe a dumb question, but is the 1200 just for the projector/screen? Or does audio also have to come out of that 1200 budget? I personally find that the sound part of a movie is at least 50% of the viewing experience, and projectors don't do that.



billmd said:


> I am just an average guy with a very average budget($1200.00) and you all have inspired me to pursue a theater of my own. That being said I was wondering what the best choice for my budget would be.
> 91" ceiling
> 12' ceiling depth before a soffet
> Basement area with controllable light
> ...


----------



## Rex (Aug 14, 2007)

billmd said:


> I am just an average guy with a very average budget($1200.00) and you all have inspired me to pursue a theater of my own. That being said I was wondering what the best choice for my budget would be.
> 91" ceiling
> 12' ceiling depth before a soffet
> Basement area with controllable light
> ...



Bill

If your budget is for the projector and screen, then I suggest you look at some of the projector systems built by Curt Palme (www.curtpalme.com) and some sort of DIY screen.

If your budget also includes the audio component(s) and speakers, then I don't think you will find anything in that range, unless you happen upon an incredible bargain. There are such bargains, from time to time, on Craigs List, eBay, and others places.


----------



## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

www.projectionguys.com has some nice package deals you could consider.


----------



## Rex (Aug 14, 2007)

tcarcio said:


> www.projectionguys.com has some nice package deals you could consider.


I found these sites interesting too:

Projector Central

Mike Parker Mods

Projector Screens Direct

Projector Screen Store.com/

Tech for Less

Home Theater Plus

And of course, I check WOOT


----------



## Rex (Aug 14, 2007)

Oops! I forgot this one:

Curt Palme Projectors

He has a section on "entry level" systems, and has offerings starting at $350. This is an excerpt:

Entry-level CRT projectors are perfect for the individual that wants to add high quality video to their home theater but doesn't necessarily want to break the bank with the latest and greatest CRT projector. Entry-Level CRT projectors offer the following features:

7" and 8" tube sizes with light output usually in the 600-800 lumen range 
Electrostatic focus 
Analog or digital convergence (depending on model) 
Capable of displaying 1080i (HDTV) resolution (Video grade units excluded), some will do 720p as well 
Most are smaller in size to the Intermediate/High Performance counterparts 
More information on these features and what they mean is available in the CRT Primer.

All of these projectors are perfectly suited for home theater use (satellite/cable TV and DVD playback), and most will display 1080i high definition TV (HDTV) as well. All have been thoroughly tested and many have had modifications done to them to increase reliability.

Be forewarned that the words 'Entry-Level' can be a bit misleading! These projectors are tagged as 'Entry-Level' simply because newer and better models are available. These are all commercial/professional grade projectors that often originally sold for $10K and up!

For some example screenshots of one of these 'entry-level' projectors, please visit this post in our CRT Projector discussion forum. They were taken by the webmaster on his 26K hour (yes, 26,000 hours) Barco 800 bought from me back in 2000.

Curious how a CRT projector you're considering purchasing stacks up against others? Check out our Projector Rankings page to see exactly how the different units compare in terms of performance in a home theater environment!


----------



## Guest (Oct 28, 2007)

First I want to thank evrybody for all of your helpful suggestions and resources.
I have narrowed it down to the Sanyo Z5 and the Sony hs60. And yes the 1200.00 was just for the projector and maybe a little flexible. So which would you buy??


----------



## khellandros66 (Jun 7, 2006)

The new Sony VPL-AW10 and AW15 either of these are nice, also count my vote for the Optoma HD70 also a nice projector on the low low if DLP is ya flava :yes:

Any of those is sure to be a TKO :boxer:

~Bobby


----------



## pappaj (Aug 9, 2007)

I got a cheap mitsubishi off ebay I can't remember the model right now for 300 bucks shipped. For my screen I used a custom made blind from home depot that is 120" diagonal that works really well actually but it can't take any lights on.


----------



## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

If you have $1200 I'd suggest the InFocus SP-7210, Mistubishi HC1500, Optoma 7100/7300, Panasonic PT-AX200U, IN76, Sharp DT-500, Sharp DT-510 or Sharp 12000 MK II....all are better than Acer 530 or Optoma HD70.


----------



## Guest (Nov 7, 2007)

in that order
What about the Mitsubishi 3000


----------



## Rex (Aug 14, 2007)

For your $1,200, it's hard to imagine how anything would come close to one of those refurbed & tweaked Barco's that originally sold for over $10,000. The specs blow away anything new on the market in the under $2,000 price range. The more I read, the more I find it hard to select any of the "newer" approaches.

This is an excerpt from http://www.lynxxx.nl/barco/introduction.asp

Why CRT Projection?

Cathode Ray Tube (CRT) with yoke 

Instead of liquid crystal display panels (LCD) or tiny arrays of mirrors (DLP), Barco CRT projectors use - as their name indicates - cathode ray tubes or CRT's. Cathode Ray tubes do not have a fixed panel resolution, which means they can display any resolution that is within the scan range (RGB bandwidth) of the projector. Deeper blacks, vibrant colors, extremely high contrast ratios and complete lack of pixel structure are some of the properties that set CRT projectors apart from even the most expensive DLPs. In short, CRT projectors provide the most film-like viewing experience possible. As an added bonus, the flexible resolution often allows even the cheapest Data range CRT projectors to output a 1920x1080i HDTV resolution! CRT projectors are heavy, difficult to setup and everything-but-portable, but despite what most salespeople will tell you, their performance is still unmatched by any other technology. 

Are you out of your mind?

Of course the size and weight dont exactly give the Barco a high "Wife Acceptance Factor" or WAF, which is why many people tend to go for the smaller DLP and LCD projectors and I for one don't blame them. The steep learning curve, mounting constraints and many myths that have been created by salespeople of modern DLP technology will scare off a lot of people. CRT owners are often refered to as the "mad scientists" that refer to their projector as "the precious" but scary as some of them may look or sound, they are always willing to help you out with whatever problems you run into. The home theater communities on the internet and CRT owners in particular often provide you with all the support you need on a technical level. However, it is up to you to gain the support of your significant other  

Lifespan

CRT tubes have an average lifespan of about 10,000 hours, which is longer than most people will ever spend in their home theater. Compare that to the 1000 hours you'll be able to push out of most DLP projector bulbs! The chassis of most CRT projectors will last even longer than that, providing you with countless hours of home theater fun before requiring replacement of tubes or other parts. However, tubes can wear out much much faster when a projector has been driven too hard or installed incorrectly. Prolonged periods of displaying static images will quickly result in tube-burn, which also drasticly reduces the lifespan of the tube. A cheap projector can turn out to be a very expensive deal if the tubes have wear or burn. Tube replacements costs are high and in many cases even higher than the price for which you will have purchased the projector.


----------



## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

billmd... no, not in any particular order. If you don't need lens shift I persoanlly MUCH prefer a DLP. Any of those listed are great PJ's. Some are more for daytime viewing as they are light cannons whereas others are meant for dark viewing and more film-like.
I would say a Marantz if you can find one, then any of the Sharps, then the 7210, then the Optoma 7100/7300, then the Mits. HC1500. That's where I personally would stop.


Rex...You really love those CRT's huh. Not too many people suggest them, how come? In fact, of all new threads in the past three months or so I've read asking about which PJ to buy, you are the only guy saying CRT.
I know they can have an absolutely unbelieveable picture, so how come more don't suggest them?


----------



## Rex (Aug 14, 2007)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> billmd... no, not in any particular order. If you don't need lens shift I persoanlly MUCH prefer a DLP. Any of those listed are great PJ's. Some are more for daytime viewing as they are light cannons whereas others are meant for dark viewing and more film-like.
> I would say a Marantz if you can find one, then any of the Sharps, then the 7210, then the Optoma 7100/7300, then the Mits. HC1500. That's where I personally would stop.
> 
> 
> ...




A great question, and I have do not know the answer. 

Perhaps the answer is in what Lynxxx called the "Wife Acceptance Factor", WAF. I just bought a perfect Mitsubishi WS-65907. It had earned the guy a failing WAF. He loved the unit, and she hated it! It weighs over 350 pounds, and it took two of us to move it. He confided that he replaced it with a 42 inch flatscreen because of the WAF. :hissyfit:

Perhaps the answer is in the convenience factors. The Sony, Barco, Runco, etc. units are big, and require some engineering for installation on the ceiling, although I have seen them mounted on a platform, rather than the ceiling. Some years ago, in a corporate environment, we had a Barco projector that was mounted on a custom cart. It was used for training, presentations, etc. We would roll in into the room, double check the distance to the screen, lock the casters, and double-check the convergence. YMMV

I am in the process of moving from a condominium into a house. Our plans include a home theater room. The more research I do on the subject, the more I see people using a CRT projector, more often than not. Of course, there could be new developments that change this situation, so I'll keep tracking the topic. I also note that these big projectors run RGB with H & V sync. AFIK, this produces the highest quality image, better than YPrPg.


----------



## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

Is it because they don't have the advertising? I mean if you google Home Theater projectors almost all you get is digital info.


----------



## Rex (Aug 14, 2007)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> Is it because they don't have the advertising? I mean if you google Home Theater projectors almost all you get is digital info.


I think that's part of it too -- along with the WAF.

I don't understand the move to YPrPg instead of RGB with V & H sync.


----------



## Scuba Diver (Sep 28, 2007)

Panny has some excellent choices. There are several great suggestions on here. Let us know what you decide to do. Be sure to post some pictures when you are done.


----------



## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

I wonder if the excessive brightness of the panasonic 200X would not be a problem for small and dark rooms...


----------



## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

If your room is totally light controlled you really don't need an excessive amount of Lumens for an outstanding image. 12fL is the recommended brightness for light controlled settings. Of course you can have a bit more than that without causing eye fatigue or hot spotting but there is a limit.

Also with a smaller room usually comes a smaller screen size. It is easy to quickly overpower a small screen, but luckily you can use ND filters to knock down the brightness of a new bulb and as the bulb gets older and dimmer remove the filter and still have the same bright image throughout the life of your bulb.

Many people start off with as big as they can go, and the image usually looks anywhere from good to fantastic... that is until the bulb starts to age and then they no longer have sufficient Lumens to light up that huge screen. 

From the reviews I have seen, the Panny Ax200u is a very versatile projector though and it's the one I now have my eye on and plan on getting. Like I said, you can combat the brightness and it's always nice to have too much and cut it down than not enough.


----------



## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

wbassett said:


> but luckily you can use ND filters to knock down the brightness of a new bulb


Forgive my ignorance....What is that?


----------



## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

It's a Neutral Density filter that you put infront of your lens to kill some of the brightness without causing any color shifting to the image, it just makes it a bit dimmer but all the colors remain accurate.


----------



## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

do you have a link? What do you think of the Epson home cinema 720, and the Sanyo PLV-Z5


----------



## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

blaser said:


> do you have a link? What do you think of the Epson home cinema 720, and the Sanyo PLV-Z5


I'll see if I can find some links for ND filters, in the meantime maybe Smokey or someone else has some bookmarked.

The Epson looks like it has nice specs to it but I don't know much about it. The price also looks good too. If you haven't seen this review comparing the Sanyo PLV-Z25 and the Panasonic AX200u it's worth a read. Both got very good reviews and remarks and it comes down to what you are looking for. One thing that really interested me about the AX200u was this:


Projector Central said:


> The most remarkable feature of this projector to me is the outstanding rendition of 1080p film material from HD DVD and Blu-ray. The compression into 720p sacrifices surprisingly little detail. Quite honestly, the image at first glace looks as if it were coming from a 1080p projector. You do notice the lower resolution in white block letters of titles and credits, where edges are just a bit less precise than they are on a native 1080p projector. But for the most part, the video image itself looks very close to 1080p resolution. In addition to the excellent compression, the complete absence of pixel structure contributes to this impression. We can discern subtle differences only because we spend many hours looking at these products with the same test clips. But the typical consumer would have no problem believing the AX200U was a 1080p projector if they didn't know differently.


----------



## Keith from Canada (Jan 30, 2008)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> billmd... no, not in any particular order. If you don't need lens shift I persoanlly MUCH prefer a DLP. Any of those listed are great PJ's. Some are more for daytime viewing as they are light cannons whereas others are meant for dark viewing and more film-like.
> I would say a Marantz if you can find one, then any of the Sharps, then the 7210, then the Optoma 7100/7300, then the Mits. HC1500. That's where I personally would stop.
> 
> 
> ...


I'd alter the order and go 7210 (was over $5K now retailing for under $1K), Marantz VP4001 (not easy to find one without the bowing issue), Sharp, Optoma 7100 (the 7300 is pricey) and then the Mits.


----------



## BenJF3 (Jan 30, 2008)

IF the budget is $1200 for all I have to recommend the Infocus IN72. I did much research on it before committing to it because it was my first projector and I had a really tight budget. I did the whole room fixtures and all - Projector, Screen, Onkyo 5.1 Dolby Digital Surround Sound, DVD, wiring and curtains all for under $1500. The IN72 can be had around $600-700 last time I checked. For my first go at it, I was thoroughly impressed and am now looking to upgrade my screen and possibly projector in another year or so.


----------



## Guest (Feb 1, 2008)

Thanks gang,
I found a bit more cash and went with the Xa2, Panny 200u, the onkyo875, and Klipsh in-wall . the screen and seating are next but that means finding more cash.


----------



## BenJF3 (Jan 30, 2008)

It's always about finding more cash! LOL raying:


----------



## Blasphemy (Dec 4, 2007)

aside from a slight bump in my used Mitsubishi HC1500 i would say its likely the best bank/buck.

i did my complete setup with screen and wires for about $1500.

Mitsubishi HC1500
Celing mount
2.3 Gain screen (92"diag)
25 foot hdmi
25 foot comp
power strip (for protection YO! has a batt so it allows you to shut your stuff down)

among other small misc items like wire hangers and zip ties ect...


----------



## Keith from Canada (Jan 30, 2008)

Blasphemy said:


> aside from a slight bump in my used Mitsubishi HC1500 i would say its likely the best bank/buck.
> 
> i did my complete setup with screen and wires for about $1500.
> 
> ...


2.3 gain with a 1600 lumens HC1500...you must need sunglasses! The most gain I've seen with the Mits is 1.3 and it's great with ambient light. I have heard good things about high-power screens though...


----------



## Keith from Canada (Jan 30, 2008)

BenJF3 said:


> IF the budget is $1200 for all I have to recommend the Infocus IN72. I did much research on it before committing to it because it was my first projector and I had a really tight budget. I did the whole room fixtures and all - Projector, Screen, Onkyo 5.1 Dolby Digital Surround Sound, DVD, wiring and curtains all for under $1500. The IN72 can be had around $600-700 last time I checked. For my first go at it, I was thoroughly impressed and am now looking to upgrade my screen and possibly projector in another year or so.


The IN72 is a 480p projector. When you can get a 720p for very few extra $'s (Optoma, Mits), I don't see why anyone would opt to go 480p at this time. Don't get me wrong, the IN72 is a great projector (I'm running the 4805 still...and loving it!) but for the $'s, it's just as pricey to go 720p.

I'll say it again, the Infocus SP7210 is the absolute best 720p projector going for under $1K. I can't for the life of my understand why anyone would look at another option unless they suffer RBE or need placement flexibility.


----------



## Blasphemy (Dec 4, 2007)

Keith from Canada said:


> 2.3 gain with a 1600 lumens HC1500...you must need sunglasses! The most gain I've seen with the Mits is 1.3 and it's great with ambient light. I have heard good things about high-power screens though...



i run it on low most of the time, your right it does very well with the amount of light let in by the windows.

for the money i spent im very happy.

curt


----------



## BleedingStar (Feb 3, 2008)

I have an Acer XD1170, I got the thing for barely over $500 a year ago. While it does only go to 720p, it is still an amazing piece of gear for that price.


----------



## paints (Feb 3, 2008)

Anyone have thoughts on the Benq W500? I'm leaning towards it and the Panny AX200. Sadly there is no perfect merger at the entry level for Lumens or HQV processing.


----------



## Keith from Canada (Jan 30, 2008)

paints said:


> Anyone have thoughts on the Benq W500? I'm leaning towards it and the Panny AX200. Sadly there is no perfect merger at the entry level for Lumens or HQV processing.


The BenQ is in a different category than the Panny with the Panny being more mid-range and the BenQ being entry level. If they're close to the same price, go Panny.

That being said, I have to ask why you're not considering DLP?


----------



## paints (Feb 3, 2008)

Eight foot ceiling with a beam that hangs down 11 inches. Which gives me 7'1 clearance from the bottom of the beam to the floor. The beam is 7 foot 4 inches from the screen wall.

I had an HD1500 owner send me pics with dimensions close to mine. He had his Mit's shelf mounted, but his PJ was tilted slightly up and also keystoned just a smidge. He loves the picture it throws and it appears that setup works well for him. 

Our rooms also were pretty equal in depth. My back wall to screen is 16'7. So it sounds like I could go that route if I wanted to go for it.

Long answer short. Placement issue. Not to mention I already installed a power outlet in the ceiling about 13 ft back from the wall. Going LCD just eliminates the risk. Not to mention this will be my first PJ and I know I'm just gonna be wow'ed by whatever I purchase. Which I really think should be the Panny since I won't haft to worry about SDE being a factor and one of my couches falls into 1.5 rule. However, my wife likes the price on the W500 better. That battle is still going on. Funny how much $400 dollars can make a difference with the womenfolk when it comes to buying toys....errr our mandatory man purchases.

From what I've seen every PJ has it's plus or minuses. Whether it be black level/shadow detail, lumens, HQV processing, SDE concerns or placement obstacles. There just isn't a unit that wraps it all into one neat package at a price I can do right now. It comes down to picking your poison and getting the most bang for your buck. I just hope I can swing the Panny. But if I haft to settle for the Benq. I'll still be ok and just haft to arrange the furniture in my sports room when I have my big blowout watch party's. And Hey!!! No matter what. This is my first PJ and like I said. Pretty much anything's gonna make me go WOW and maybe 2-3 years down the road. The Holy Grail of PJ's will be within my grasp.


----------



## Blasphemy (Dec 4, 2007)

tight confined spaces is where the hc1500 is home!

if you scroll down a bit you can see the tight quarters i have the mitsu stuck in and it could still throw a 110 inch picture from 11 feet! i was bummed when i bought the 92" thinking i couldnt get the 110" to thro at that distance.. but it does it like a champ, and witout any keystone!


my screen is a maxsuma, and i LOVE it


----------

