# Home Theater Layout



## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

I posted this is another section, but I didn't see this section previously, so I'm going to post here as well. In hopes this will be the right forum to post this question under.

Ok, I feel I am a Home Theater Veteran. Since I was 9 I was fascinated by Home Theaters, mainly because of my father. And since than I have researched optimal layouts, sound wave physics, and so much more. I just moved out of my parents house, where I had a killer Home Theater layout. Where I sat had excellent bass response, and sound quality. But i'm surprised that it doesnt sound the same in my new room. The room dimensions are near the same, as well as the speaker placement, and seating placement. But I cannot hear the depth, clarity, and unlocalization as I did before. Before the bass came from the front and it sounded like it wasn't coming from the offset left side. Now it sounds its coming from the left side only.

I don't know how to fix this. I have tried moving the subwoofer to different locations of the room, and turning it around at the same location, to direct the vent in different directions to see if it helps or changes the attitude of the bass.

I guess the best way to describe the bass response now is it seems in my face in front of me, rather than embracing me all around.

(You can see my Home Theater Set-Up in my Profile.)

Home Theater Set-Up
JMain Home Audio/Video System Equipment ListEdit Value
1x Yamaha Natural Sound Stereo Receiver RX-V480 (Receiver)
1x Mitsubishi VS-4551 (TV)
1x Polk Audio CSi25 (Center Speaker)
2x Polk Audio R50 (Tower Speakers)
2x Sony Bookshelf Speakers (Surround Speakers)
1x KLH E-12DBN (Subwoofer)
Acoustic Research 18 ga. Performance Series Speaker Wire 

Home Theater Layout










THe room dimensions are accurate, the shapes for the objects aren't 100% accurate, and the distance isn't 100% accurate either, but its a close general space between them and there size.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Could be a variety of things.

You said the room dims are 'close' to the same and the seating is 'close' to the same. Same for the speakers. Was the setup offset like that in your old space? One speaker really close to a wall? Did you have a closet off to one side (same side that has the close speaker?)

All of those things can change response and perception. First thing I'd do is try reversing phase on the xover and then work with the xover point and slope. 

Bryan


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

The Closet was in the mirrored corner, it was on the bottom left hand side instead, and the bed was more to the top right, in the corner, and the door was on the bottom right, and the dresser was next to the bed instead in front of the door.

The dimensions are near the same so the distance from each speaker is similar, but the stereo cabinent was on the right side, inbetween the tv and left front speaker, and the sub was beside the wall, near the closet.

but my sub doesnt have a phase switch, only a knob that ranges from 0 degrees to 180 degrees. I don't completely understand its purpose and effects.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

OK - so the new room is basically completely different. It's about the same size but that's about it. You have different boundary interactions, different seating location, etc.

Having a phase knob instead of a switch is a GOOD thing. Much more useful. Where do you have the xover set on the receiver and on the sub?

Bryan


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

My reciever doesn't have a crossover adjustment, and I have my sub set to 40Hz for crossover Frequency.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

OK. So if the right speaker is closer to the wall than it was in the old setup (side wall), you can definitely get some boundary reinforcement from that. Have you played with the phase setting yet?

Play a tone through the mains and the sub at 40hz and adjust the phase until the output is loudest. At that point, they're in phase the best you can get them.

With a 40hz xover, that by itself shouldn't be a localization issue. It's most likely something in the setup of the mains and/or the seating position.

Bryan

Bryan


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> My reciever doesn't have a crossover adjustment, and I have my sub set to 40Hz for crossover Frequency.


So is one of the receiver with a fixed crossover (100Hz, 120Hz ... just check the manual to find out what is the crossover, I remember my old Sony was 120Hz) :yes:

Like Bryan said ... maybe is the set up you're using; If your sub crossover is set at 40Hz and your AVR crossover is fixed at 120Hz; anything below 120 is being sent to sub ... but your sub is accepting from 40Hz and below ... so, there's something missing, Right???


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Just found the manual on that piece. It's pre Dolby Digital and is a Pro Logic unit with no subwoofer output. How are you connecting the sub to your system? Speaker terminal inputs paralleled with the main speakers? If so, you might want to verify that the polarity is correct on the speaker cabling going to the sub. If one of them is out of phase, that can mess things up pretty good.

Bryan


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

Im using the High Level Input, through my Speaker B output. I am using the right output only, would putting both left and right outputs into my sub change anything, and would it be beneficial? I do have extra speaker wire.

And the polarity is right.

My right speaker was close to the wall in the last set-up, same position as it is now.

I wish i had an assistant to help me play with the phase setting. Its hard to hear a change when ya get up, change the setting a little, and than go back sit down and try to remember what it sounded like before.

And I think its mainly the seating position. But, my sound field is slightly bigger.

Before, I had the right front speaker completely against the wall like it is now. But i had my TV next to it with about 8 inches in between the TV and speaker, than my stereo cabinet right against my TV, than my left speaker against my stereo cabinet. So its about another 15 inches bigger sound field, And i think i had my speakers, TV, and Stereo Cab further back to the wall. I left 10 inches between the wall and my stuff so I could have a little room back there.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> Im using the High Level Input, through my Speaker B output. I am using the right output only, would putting both left and right outputs into my sub change anything, and would it be beneficial?


When using using the high level (speaker wire) I think you need to use both (L+R) ... in this case, you're getting the bass just from one side, the right side :yes:

Why are you using the Speaker B terminal??? ... is better to use speaker A (L+R) to sub and then from sub to speakers :yes: ... this way the sub will filter the high and low frequencies.



> ...I wish i had an assistant to help me play with the phase setting. Its hard to hear a change when ya get up, change the setting a little, and than go back sit down and try to remember what it sounded like before...


You can get one free here ... is called REW :bigsmile:


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

SO...its better to hook my Tower Speakers through my sub?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

At least that way it's both cleaner and you have crossover flexibility instead of an overlap between the sub and mains.

Bryan


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> SO...its better to hook my Tower Speakers through my sub?


Yes. Sub will distribute the audio signal to towers and subwoofer depending on your crossover :yes:

I was looking for the manual of your sub online but couldn't find it (KLHAUDIO is remodeling the website) ... I have a KLH SUB10 :whistling: and I remember the manual showed the connection I'm suggesting :yes:

If you still have the manual, take a look ...


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

alright, so how will i test for crossover freq.? I have a playlist of tones on my iPod that i found on the internet earlier this year. I got from 10hz to i think around 100Hz individually.

What method do i do? Do I choose a frequency and turn the knob on my sub to maximize the volume of the tone?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> alright, so how will i test for crossover freq.? I have a playlist of tones on my iPod that i found on the internet earlier this year. ...What method do i do? Do I choose a frequency and turn the knob on my sub to maximize the volume of the tone?


How did you hooked up the sub to the AVR??? ... Are you still using the speaker terminals on the speaker selector B??? ... Or, Did you connected to A and then from sub you connected your speakers???

If I recall correctly, your sub doesn't have "Sub pre-out", Right??? ... so it has to be from speaker A or B.

You need to set your speakers to large on the AVR (so it will send full range), then set the sub corssover to the frequency you want to use (80Hz is the most used); according to your Polk R50  specifications  I suggest you set the crossover at 50Hz or 60Hz ... this way your sub will handle the low frequencies and the Polk will handle the rest ..:yes:


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

I followed your guy's advice, and wired my sub through Speaker A out. And than hooked my Polk R50's through my sub.

And my AVR doesnt have an option to set small or large speakers. No HUD for the AVR.

So I should play a 50Hz tone and set my sub's Xover to 50Hz and see how it goes?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> I followed your guy's advice, and wired my sub through Speaker A out. And than hooked my Polk R50's through my sub.
> 
> And my AVR doesnt have an option to set small or large speakers. No HUD for the AVR.
> 
> So I should play a 50Hz tone and set my sub's Xover to 50Hz and see how it goes?


Yes, but I think is better to use a 40Hz ... I'm not sure if the sub will cut completely that signal to speakers or it will pass it through at a lower volume :scratchhead: (I'm sure you'll notice where the test tone is coming from).

Set your sub crossover at 40Hz (as it was before) then play a 50Hz, 60Hz or 70Hz signal and see what happens ... I'm assuming that your sub wont get that signal because is above the crossover and you'll hear that tone on your speakers only :yes:


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