# Building a Small Control & Live Room



## Guest (Jul 27, 2006)

Hello Forum!!,

Glad to be here and hope I can get input from all !!

I'm in the process of building a room... It started out as a 11' 6" W x 22' L x 8' 6" H shed out in the back yard. Having a request to make it into a studio I started with a floating floor which in the beginning was covering the entire area inside, but later it was decided to 'cut' the floor in half and put in two seperated rooms.

I now have two 10' 6" W x 10' L x 7' 4" H rooms. I know the rooms are small :coocoo: and was hoping I can get away with that.:sweat: 

I have the idea of using RC for the control room and doing regular drywalling for the live room. Also I plan on using RC for the entire ceiling in both rooms. There is a 2" gap between the two rooms at the interior walls, the rooms are untreated at the moment (no drywall, only framing) and was looking for input as to what would be a good 'next step' since this studio did not turn out to be one large room like I would have liked.....onder: 

Any input is welcomed....lease:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi B-Dogg and welcome to the Shack!

Wow... that's a really small room... but, I'm sure you can make it work. I'm assuming you don't plan on having more than 2-3 folks in there at a time... just a one rear row seating arrangement with a smaller screen?

The 11.6 x 22 would have been almost the same size as we have now... which is pretty small, but we do have two rows and the first row is about 11-12' back.

Have you already got your equipment?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi B-Dogg,

First, welcome. I'm in the midst of doing a similar project in that I want to isolate my basement from the rest of the house. It sounds like you're not going to be watching movies in there, but rather you want a performance space and a control room space. Either way, though, you don't want bleed through of the sound into the other room.

When you say "RC", I take you to mean "resilient clips." I believe these are the same as what I would call RSIC -- resilient sound insulating clips, and their accompanying hat channels. Those are excellent to decouple drywall from framing. Depending on the way your ceiling is framed, this is probably a good idea for the ceiling, so that you don't get sounds up into the attic space and over to the other side. 

As to between the rooms -- you might be able to get away without the RCs. You say there's a 2" gap between the rooms. Does that mean that you have two separate, independent interior walls framed? If so, I think you can skip the RCs and just drywall *both *sides of *both *walls. You will then have a total of four layers of drywall. I would also insluate inside of each wall, as well as inside that 2" gap, if possible. 

If your framing of the interior walls isn't done yet (it sounds like it is, though), you may consider another type of RC that decouples the wall framing from the roof truss framing. I think they are called RSIC-4, where the other RC we are talking about are RSIC-1. Can't seem to find RSIC-4 on the web right now, but I know they're out there.

Another option is the use of Green Glue. GG is sandwiched in between two layers of drywall. This creates a "constrained damping layer", and is tested to be very effective. I'm have four cases of this in my basement, so I guess I'm committed. In your case, GG may be a good backup -- you can do the RCs and insulation and drywall. Then, you can test your spaces at whatever sound levels to determine if the results are satisfactory. If not, you will then be able to apply GG and another layer of drywall to improve the situation.

I believe that if you do all the above, including GG and double drywall, you will be very happy with the results. Hopefully, budget is not a concern... :laugh: 

Unfortunately, I haven't completed my project yet, so I can't say first hand. I've picked up most of this information at the AVSForum in the dedicated HT threads. There is also tons of general soundproofing theory and such at the GG website.

Good luck!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

oops... sorry I totally missed it there. "Studio", "control room", "live room"... should have figured as much. I know absolutely diddly squat about studio's.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Well, you got it that they make real small home theaters! :laugh: 

But the concepts of sound isolation should be similar.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

Your rooms are almost perfectly square! That's theoretically a big no no for exacerbating bass resonant modes in the room. You can see a graphical representation of where these modes can pile up, and at what frequencies, by using this room calculator developed by Dr. Floyd Toole: http://www.harman.com/wp/xls/Room Mode Calculator.xls .

There will likely be a temptation to sit in the center of the room for your control position. That's likely to place you in a major pressure zone. I would suggest changing the location of the center wall if possible. You can verify the difference this will make by entering the different dimensions in the calculator.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA


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## Ayreonaut (Apr 26, 2006)

One recommended ratio for a small room is 1 : 1.25 : 1.6

Can you adjust the partitions to get a room that's close to 7'-4" x 9'-2" x 11'-9" ?


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## Guest (Jul 28, 2006)

Hey All ! 

Thanks for the warm welcome.

I've been talking with the 'owner' of this new studio and he will take the weekend to decide whether or not to remove the (2)center walls and make it into one single room approx. 10' 6"W x 20'L x 7' 4"H. This would change my plans on using RC in the room, but I plan on keeping the RC ceiling in order to minimize flanking noise.

Thanks to all for your help, and Alan, you are sooo right, the size of those two rooms would be such a PITA to deal with, I'm hoping I was successful in changing the owners mind on how to build this studio. And Otto, your comments really made me rethink that maybe I could do without those wall(s) !! 

I'll post when there is new news!!  That's some coffee! Now let's hear that snare drum!!!

~Bryan aka: B-Dogg


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## Guest (Jul 29, 2006)

*UPDATE*

Ok, it was decided to remove the interior walls, so now I'm dealing with a room that is 20feet long.......:dizzy:


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

I think that's gonna be a good thing. So what are your new constraints for leaking sound? Do you want to avoid disturbing neighbors or people in the "main house"?


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## Guest (Jul 30, 2006)

Otto said:


> I think that's gonna be a good thing. So what are your new constraints for leaking sound? Do you want to avoid disturbing neighbors or people in the "main house"?


G'morning Otto, :yawn:

My main concerns are keeping what's inside, inside and what's outside, outside. The building is of course located in a residential area with plenty of houses nearby so needless to say we don't want to disturb the neighborhood at midnight with banging drums and screaming guitars. Sound levels inside could reach into the triple digits (100+db) <=expecting the worse case.

As it stands right now the room has a floating floor and the additional framing to make a 'room within a room'. Fiberglass R-19 has been placed in the ceiling rafters and the wall cavities of the *original* room structure. The 'room within a room' framed structure has nothing in them right now.

So having said all that I'm hoping to reach an STC of 55 or better (maybe 61?) using this double wall constuction. I have on paper many ideas of how to soundproof the place but haven't decided on the best method. Things like Mass Loaded Vinyl, Soundproofing Mat material, at least two layers of drywall(QuietRock & Suppress are too expensive), etc. Since the idea is to keep as much of the *original *roof area as possible we are going to put up RC and attach drywall to the 'furring strips' that are mounted perpendicular to the roof joists.

Now this is where I need help, I only want to do this once :spend: and not have to make excuses to the owner about it. 

I've been reading :reading: and the more I read the less I want to know!! :scratchhead:

I guess this room can now 'double' as a HT room, the owner asked if I could install a wide screen above and in front of the mix position, and I said SURE... how about a 60"?... he said 'too much :dollarsign:' --wants to put in a 32" which I think would be a bit small.

Soooo, Otto, Sonnie, Alan, anyone else...........chime in, it's do or die time for me...

"Look outward with eyes that are freshly drawn toward the positive possibilities"
--Ralph S. Marston, Jr.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

HiTeC2006 said:


> Now this is where I need help, I only want to do this once :spend: and not have to make excuses to the owner about it.


Well, I guess I have to ask about your budget. If I calculated right, I think you have about 660 ft^2 to cover (walls and ceiling).




> I've been reading :reading: and the more I read the less I want to know!! :scratchhead:


Yeah, I'm right with ya. Of course, I only have once shot at this as well, and I'm still not sure exactly what I'm gonna do. I guess my choice is easier -- RCs or not?



> I guess this room can now 'double' as a HT room, the owner asked if I could install a wide screen above and in front of the mix position, and I said SURE... how about a 60"?... he said 'too much :dollarsign:' --wants to put in a 32" which I think would be a bit small.


It would certainly be possible to use it as an HT. But I agree that 32" is too small. How far would be be sitting from the screen? My 52" works nicely in my living room, but if I had a "space" like his, it would be bigger. Does he have a projector already?


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## Guest (Jul 31, 2006)

Otto said:


> Well, I guess I have to ask about your budget. If I calculated right, I think you have about 660 ft^2 to cover (walls and ceiling).


* Not an easy question to answer, however so far the RC clips and Furring rails for the ceiling have been purchased, and it's been OK'd for two layers of drywall one 5/8" the other 1/2". 

Still on the table is MLV for the floor and possibly for the walls. Then comes interior considerations after we take some room readings, btw:been trying out that REW, and I'm impressed! Then we need to do a bit of decor inside to make it look decent. *




Otto said:


> Yeah, I'm right with ya. Of course, I only have once shot at this as well, and I'm still not sure exactly what I'm gonna do. I guess my choice is easier -- RCs or not?


* Well in truth RC's only provide addtional help in the upper ranges of sound. RC's actually makes it worse in the low end of things. Refer to the graphs on this webpage: http://www.greengluecompany.com/newsletter4.php 
I installed it on the ceiling joists of the original building, this helps as higher freq. travel up and forward and in addition I didn't want any of the new room construction to have any direct contact with the original building. Keep in mind the RC system can be very pricey, not for the rails, but for the clips themselves! *




Otto said:


> It would certainly be possible to use it as an HT. But I agree that 32" is too small. How far would be be sitting from the screen? My 52" works nicely in my living room, but if I had a "space" like his, it would be bigger. Does he have a projector already?


* Sitting/Mixing position will be around 6 feet from the rear wall. So maybe this 32" won't be so bad. No projector, would a projector be able to handle multiple inputs? (S-Video, Composite, etc...) *


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## Guest (Nov 7, 2006)

Hello again,

Well it is finally finished. Still have the acoustics to deal with, but the construction, painting and installation of equipment is done!! yeah!


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## Danny (May 3, 2006)

To seal out (or in) noise at the door, compression seals work well. They are two bits of rubber which when the door or window is shut are squashed together, this creates a seal which will prevent noise from escaping. For windows double glazing will do wonders for preventing leakage, normal single glass sheet windows are very ineffective at reducing noise


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## Guest (Nov 9, 2006)

Danny said:


> To seal out (or in) noise at the door, compression seals work well. They are two bits of rubber which when the door or window is shut are squashed together, this creates a seal which will prevent noise from escaping. For windows double glazing will do wonders for preventing leakage, normal single glass sheet windows are very ineffective at reducing noise


The room (with no windows) was built using the "Room within a Room" - construction, it has a floating floor, and the ceiling is on RC clips. 
Double layer drywall 5/8" & 1/2" all the way around, including the ceiling.

I am working out my room modes, and what traps I will have to make, where I need to difuse, etc. Auralex is too much $$. So trying to find the happy ground is tough going. The ceiling has a short pitch and a flat top. 

Of the door(s) one interior and one exterior, the exterior door has a good seal, the interior door is still without a seal of any kind. Walls are painted, and hard floor is in. 

Now the harder part still remains. :hush:
Setting up the room so that it sounds decent.:whistling:

~Bryan


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## kismet (Nov 7, 2006)

Hi Bryan,
My suggestion is bass traps and lots of them! If you can build some frames in each corner, fill them with fluffy fiberglass and face the opening with Owens Corning 703 rigid fiberglass panels (3" to 4" thickness) covered with an acoustically transparent fabric that should help a great deal. The 703 comes in 2'x4' panels and 1,2,3 & 4" thicknesses (the thicker, the lower the frequency it helps tame...it's also hard to find...Certainteed makes an equivalent product or rigid mineral wool works too). You can also hang it from the ceiling over the mix position a few inches away from the ceiling. You should also treat the area on the front wall between the speakers and on the side walls between the speakers and the mix position. If you can space the panels a few inches away from the walls it will lower the effective range of the bass absorption. The fiberglass will not only help with the bass...it will also keep the highs from bouncing. Too much high end absorption can make the room sound dead but in a small room you can almost never have too many bass traps! It's all in the placement...it will probably take some experimenting. These panels work over a fairly large range as bass trapping so, unless you have a really bad response at a certain frequency, you shouldn't have to sweat calculating frequencies too much. Good luck! I'm going through the same process, but I'm not quite as far along as you!
-Lee


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