# HDMI Cable Too Long?



## artliz (Aug 9, 2010)

This is my first post. I just moved to a new home with an actual theater room! I installed a Panny PT-AE4000, and fed it (through the attic - very difficult access) with a 35 ft HDMI cable from a new Onkyo receiver. I have a 3 ft HDMI cable from the Onkyo to a wall plate. I fed the projector a signal from a Panasonic DMP-BD35 Blu-ray player. I got no image, just audio from the system. The projector indicated that it saw no signal. Occasionally, the disc image showed up on the screen for just a moment. I connected the HDMI cable from the wall, directly to the Blu-ray, bypassing the receiver. I then got a code U73 on the Blu-ray, which Panasonic says indicates an HDMI issue. The cable is good, since I can pass a U-Verse signal through the receiver up to the projector just fine. Does anyone know what the length limit for running HDMI cable is? I feel that it may be an issue with the signal strength from this particular Blu-ray player, however if I need to replace it, how can I determine if the new player won't have the same issue? Best Buy, and other local stores are not great about returns. Has anybody seen this problem? Can you please recommend Blu-ray players that will work with long HDMI runs? I would like to get the system up by Xmas. Thanks -
:help:


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Absolutely longer runs cause more issues, did you try 1080i instead of 1080p? From what Ive found I can pass 1080i or 720p at 50' to my sanyo z2000, but 1080p is far more twitchy and the handshake creates issues on a regular basis...

I dropped to 25' and ran the cable under the house to reach, its still twitchy but not as bad and will allow for 1080p. Try a lower resolution and a shorter cable if at all possible. Also ensure that your 50' cable is high speed, not a standard grade hdmi cable, that could be the cause. Monoprice cables are great but super thick for those long runs.

Welcome to the shack, sir


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## artliz (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for the help. I am not familiar with "handshake". Is there a link or site that I can read up on it? 
Regarding my install - the cable was the only 35 ft length that I could find locally. I am not sure if the quality is great. The install was nasty, and I hate to have to repeat it. If that is my only recourse, is there a good source for ordering a better cable online? I intend to try a borrowed Sony Blu-ray tonight, to see if I still have the problem.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

If your cable does not specifically state its high speed than more than likely it is NOT. Like I said, its very likely it will pass 1080i without trouble, but 1080p requires high speed cabling (and may still be twitchy being passed over that distance). As mentioned, monoprice.com is the best priced source for the cable you seek. Also, search google for details on hdmi handshakes, there is boatloads of info on the headaches it causes...


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

I did an install with a 35' HDMI (1.3a) cable and a Panny 4k and had no problems with 1080p. But as other posters have said, it does make a difference if the cable is rated for "high speed" (1080p) and the length. 35' is approaching the limit of a passive hdmi signal. There are also booster amps for hdmi that can extend the run, if that's the problem. That won't solve the 1080p/1080i problem, though.

I got my cable for that install at Parts Express, but Monoprice.com also carries them.

Good luck.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Here are some links:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-782

http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10240&cs_id=1024002&p_id=2805&seq=1&format=2


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Anthony, correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the gauge factor in on longer runs? I have a 50' HDMI betwen my Epson projector and my Onkyo 3007 and haven't had any issues, but I distinctly remember looking for a larger gauge HDMI (22 vs 24, 28 and 30) because I thought I read something about that but can't think of the site right now.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

You can go with larger gauge for longer runs, but I thought the HDMI 1.3a cables were already a step up in wire gauge from the older, lower data rate cables. For really long runs this is factor, but I don't consider 35 feet really long. At 50' it starts to matter (see the monoprice link below). At 50', though, I'd really be considering some sort of a booster or compensation circuit. HDMI is funny in that it uses something in the wire to measure loss and compensate to keep the signal to noise ratio high. For longer runs, you have to equalize it with a compensation circuit to help it keep this mechanism working. 

I couldn't find the AWG for the Parts Express cable, but that's the exact one I used in the 35' run I did a few years ago with no problems.

Here are a couple of inline amps that equalize for long runs. They also have wall plates with this feature built in.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-766 &FTR=hdmi amp -- active amp
http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10419&cs_id=1041914&p_id=2849&seq=1&format=2


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Dale Rasco said:


> Anthony, correct me if I am wrong, but wouldn't the gauge factor in on longer runs? I have a 50' HDMI betwen my Epson projector and my Onkyo 3007 and haven't had any issues, but I distinctly remember looking for a larger gauge HDMI (22 vs 24, 28 and 30) because I thought I read something about that but can't think of the site right now.


I know you didnt ask me Dale, but thought Id mention...25' I got from monoprice was about the diameter of a quarter, another 25' I have is about the diameter of a dime, performance is the same for both. In my experience as long as its rated high speed the gauge is not relevant.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

TypeA said:


> I know you didnt ask me Dale


Yeah? Well luckily I respect and value your opinion pal so ye shall live...:R


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

dale said:


> Yeah? Well luckily I respect and value your opinion pal so ye shall live


Appreciate that. And I should have also mentioned that as the length increases gauge may become more of a factor. And obviously complexity and specific components within you system can make a difference. Just recently read in either the mits dlp or sony lcos projector review where projector central found the hdmi sync was excessively long, to the point of being annoying. Even my mits 720p projector receiving 720p from the samsung blu ray (via the onkyo 3007) playing Star Trek the original series on blu ray will completely re handshake a couple times as the disk loads


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

TypeA said:


> Appreciate that. And I should have also mentioned that as the length increases gauge may become more of a factor. And obviously complexity and specific components within you system can make a difference. Just recently read in either the mits dlp or sony lcos projector review where projector central found the hdmi sync was excessively long, to the point of being annoying. Even my mits 720p projector receiving 720p from the samsung blu ray (via the onkyo 3007) playing Star Trek the original series on blu ray will completely re handshake a couple times as the disk loads


The main reason I brought it up was because my HDMI is 50' and I figured that the gauge was at least somewhat a factor at that length. I have only noticed minimal handshake re-tries on my Epson 8350 using the 50' connected to my Onkyo 3007. Larger gauges are important in distance and load so I guess my reasoning was behind the 50' vs 25' and 1080P which would require more bandwidth, I.E., a larger load.


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Yes Gauge and Distance can both have an effect on longer distance cables, once the distance gets over 35' I generally go active HDMI (repeater built in or added on) or balun to transmit the signal. Install and cost are what determines which way I go but have had too many problems with passive cables at that distance to trust it for a customer.


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## artliz (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks to everyone for your help. I swapped the Panasonic Blu-rqay for a Sony, and the problem ceased.The Panny Blu-ray works fine in the install that the Sony was in. I guess the Panny did not have sufficient output for the HDMI run. No handshake problems at all.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Glad it worked out for you.


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## buckije (Jun 8, 2011)

I'm desperate here. 

BACKGROUND
I put together a central AV closet with two DVR's and a matrix switcher. Long HDMI runs into the walls already. After much hassle i had to revert to component video as the core of the system with component to HDMI converters(SPDIF Audio) to feed each AV/TV system (one downstairs and one up).

Long run cables had a small "module" built into the cable at mid point. I was green at the time and didn't know exactly what is was. Still not sure what I have as the markings are non existent. I technically don't know if I installed them in the proper direction...but I have seen video through them.

Came back from vacation to find that neither of my component to HDMI converters was working. Neighbors said a really bad electrical storm passed through. Much testing has shown neither transmits, regardless of distance or source.

ISSUE:
I've now purchase two different replacement boxes and neither can transmit across the cable lengths I have. I'm guessing 50ft, but can't remember the exact lengths. They both can transmit short distances.

Question 1: Any ideas on a "driver" or other device "guaranteed" to drive a long run?
Question 2: Knowing that I already have HDMI in the walls with wall plates around the house...is there another transmission scheme I can consider? Preferably one that still outputs HDMI at the wallplate?
Question 3: If I installed the cables backwards....would I get an image through the cable? Any way to determine if I have them in the proper direction?

I'm do sick of this issue I'd do almost anything. My wife is hounding me as she missed the Oprah grand finale...and I still don't have it fixed.

Your help is appreciated. Love to talk it through if your open to a phone call.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

They dont specify the distances they transmit but most like monoprice stuff, might want to give them a shot. Fraid "guaranteed" is too much to ask in regards to hdmi, trial and error sir, trial and error. Ive accepted certain quirks myself, it helps with the stress.... Far as I know neither component nor hdmi cares what direction the signal flows tho.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=component+to+HDMI+converters&x=22&y=7


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

That's a tough one. There are some inline amps that boost the HDMI signal (or provide some compensation correction for longer runs). 

This is one I found quickly (no experience):
http://www.uniqueproductsonline.com/hdmirepeater.html

Parts Express and Monoprice sell similar items. PE has great customer service, so if it does not work for you, you might be able to return it. I've ordered from Monoprice, but never tried to return anything there.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Here's the PE one:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=181-766


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## lakata (Dec 9, 2012)

I'm still trying to solve this problem, and a new wrinkle in the equation is "Deep Color" which can vary from player to player. AFAIK, the Blu-ray format has color that is only 8-bit deep, but some players will up sample to 10-bit or 12-bit. 

My Roku 2 XS box outputs 10-bit color (according to the projector info page) while my LG BD570 Blu-ray player outputs 12-bits. And I definitely have more problems with the Blu-ray player. There is no way to turn the deep color option off on the LG or on the Epson projector.

So, warning to those - it is not just 1080p or not 1080p, it is the color depth too.

A resource I found on audioholics claims that NO cable over 10 meters (33 ft) can support 12-bit color at 1080p!


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

That makes sense. 12 bit color info is 50% more data than the 8 bit (although the color depth isn't the entire signal). I can see that limiting the length. I've never run anything other than the 8 bit standard, so I never ran into that problem.

Good info.


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