# Sound Card Calibration



## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

I want to use REW for Sub tuning. I have a Toshiba Tablet with a Realtek audio card built in. I downloaded the latest version (4.0) of REW. I ran the calibration, and the test afteward, and I get the attached graphs.

The raw test shows the freq response rolling off pretty high, and the compensated test still shows a curve that looks unusable for sub testing.

Am I doing something wrong, or do I have a ****** soundcard?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> The raw test shows the freq response rolling off pretty high, and the compensated test still shows a curve that looks unusable for sub testing.


The raw test with the loopback cable is the purple line and looks perfect.

You're right, the soundcard ain't great, but the soundcard calibration file (dotted line) compensates and gives a flat response ready for testing.

Many people use an external USB soundcard when they have a laptop for REW.

Once you take a measurement, be sure to post measurement graphs for subs using a vertical scale of 45dB to 105dB and a horizontal scale of 15Hz to 200hz.










brucek


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## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

Sorry about that, I guess I was reading the graph wrong. I thought the dotted line was the compensated graph.

Paul


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

bruchek,
I am still trying to calibrate my Sound Blaster Live 24 I hooked up the line from my mike in to the speaker out and ran a sound card calibration and this is what I got any ideas.
Thanks,
Leon


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## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

I'm sure brucek will have a definitive answer, but I believe the problem might be related to software that "enhances" the sound. Look in your system tray (bottom right) and see if there is any icons related to the sound card other than the volume control, if so turn it/them off, or exit it/them, and try again.

Paul


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

koiman said:


> bruchek,
> I am still trying to calibrate my Sound Blaster Live 24 I hooked up the line from my mike in to the speaker out and ran a sound card calibration and this is what I got any ideas.
> Thanks,
> Leon




Hi Leon,

You want to use "line in" rather than "mic in" on your soundcard.


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Leon, check that the CMSS light on the Sound Blaster is OFF. Also in the Creative Console named EAX, check that the sound effect option is unchecked (or not ticked).


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto said:


> Hi Leon,
> 
> You want to use "line in" rather than "mic in" on your soundcard.


otto,
When I use the line in I don't have enough power to attain a reading.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

MakeFlat said:


> Leon, check that the CMSS light on the Sound Blaster is OFF. Also in the Creative Console named EAX, check that the sound effect option is unchecked (or not ticked).


CMSS light is off.. EAX is set correctly.
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

koiman said:


> otto,
> When I use the line in I don't have enough power to attain a reading.


Hi there koiman,

Well, you generally want to use line in for the way we have things set up here. If you are using speaker out to line in, you should definitely be able to get a reading. Check your sound card settings via the speaker icon in the task tray. Are all levels up (both the speaker output as well as the line in knob)? Nothing muted (probably not, else I'd expect you to get nothing).

Similarly, in REW's "Settings", you can control the levels for the soundcard on the appropriately-named "Soundcard" tab. Make sure you have selected the correct inputs and outputs for the soundcard being used, and then ensure that the levels are at max (you can adjust them down later, if need be).

After all that, redo the soundcard cal and see what happens. You should definitely be able to get correct levels using speaker out and line in with a loopback cable. 

What's the rest of your setup like? Specifically, during normal measurements, how will you feed the input of your soundcard? Radio Shack SPL meter? Other SPL meter? Mic and preamp? Mic only? 

Thanks! Good luck!


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
I checked all setting that you told me to check.. Sound card input set to 1.000 surround mixer master control set to 100% and when running the line in to speaker out I get a maxium reading on input of -64.3 way to low to run the sound card cal.
Thanks,
Leon


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Post a picture of your mixer settings.

Are you using stereo to mono adapters on your soundcard?

brucek


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

brucek,
I am using the stereo to mono plugs like you told me to... I don't know how to post a picture of the Surround Mixer but here is my readings.

Master Control .. Volume 100%
Wave.. 100%
MIDI.. Cancel
CD Audio.. Cancel
Line in/ Mike.. Cancel
What U Hear.. 100% (Record)
This set up is just like the one in the tertorial.
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

koiman said:


> brucek,
> I am using the stereo to mono plugs like you told me to... I don't know how to post a picture of the Surround Mixer but here is my readings.
> 
> Master Control .. Volume 100%
> ...


What does "Line in/ Mike.. Cancel" mean?

In my case, I need line in...


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

In the source box there is a line in / Mike setting.. the speaker at the bottom of the line has a X in it just like the the original picture in the set up section of the instructions for the Sound Blaster Live 24 
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

OK. Gotcha. I found that thread about SB 24 setup. Did you see this post? I see that you listed "What U Hear", but they're saying to find the Line In in that box. I don't have that soundcard, so I'm not sure how it works, but that might be part of it.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

I think I have figured out how to post a picture of the Surround mixer.
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Yep. Now can you select that little "ear" icon by the "REC" and drop it down to select "Line In"?


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
Ok.. I finely got it to work instead of having the Input Device on the Sound Card set to line in/Mic in, I changed it to What U Hear and it ran a perfect line. Thanks for all the help I have been fighting this for a week now.:hissyfit: 
Thanks,
Leon :bigsmile:


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hmmm, that's interesting.

So where is that "Input Device" setting actually located? You said it's on the Sound Card, but I'm not sure what you mean -- on the hardware device itself? You changed it _from_ "line in/mic in" _to_What U Hear? Is that telling us that there are _two_ places that must match for this thing to work? And the previous post I liked to just happened to have it the other way around? What if you set them _both_ to "line in/mic in"? 

Or am I missing something?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Ok.. I finely got it to work instead of having the Input Device on the Sound Card set to line in/Mic in, I changed it to What U Hear and it ran a perfect line


I'm afraid your perfect line is an illusion. When you select What U Hear with that soundcard it turns on the internal loopback of the card. The output loops directly back to the input and gives a perfect line. You can't measure anything though.

Return the settings to mic/line in as shown in the sticky thread... Re-read that entire thread and set it up the way it describes and it will work..



brucek


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## aceinc (Oct 24, 2006)

The easiest way to capture a single Windows panel is to hold down the "Alt" and press "Print Screen", open Paint, or your prefered graphics program, and paste (ctrl-v) the image. This should display only the "Active" panel. You can then save the image as a jpg, and post it.

Paul


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

brucek,
I have read all the information that you wanted me to changes the surround card setting to Line in and still cant get it to work. I can't believe that calibrating the sound card is so difficult. Here is some pictures of my set up,
Thanks,
Leon


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

This is what my sound card looks like with the above settings. I just can't get enough volume to function properly.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I can't believe that calibrating the sound card is so difficult


It's normally so simple. I don't get it either....

It sure seems like you have everything correct.

I really don't know what else to say. It should just work.

I guess you are using the two jacks shown below?









brucek


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

brucek,
Here is a picture of the wires on the back of the soundblaster Live 24.. Stereo to Mono plugs on both input and output.
Leon


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Yeah, normally it would be easy. But, here is a hint, based on one of the most common mistakes. Did you ever wonder why audio/video test disks were made that include a test to verify left/right channel. In theory, if one connects red to red and white to white, there should be no need for testing. That's true if everyone in the world *never* made a mistake on something as simple as left vs right. It may be a combination of color coding difference on the cable, or connector design. I just remember that one of my Y cable adapter is not wired the same as my second Y cable... but then I found out. 

So here's a test, change the LINE-IN connection from LEFT to RIGHT or RIGHT to LEFT which ever applies, without changing the Input selection in REW. Just to be sure, connect both the left and right LINE-OUT to the aux input of the receiver/amp(turn off the receiver first). Be sure to start with a *low* volume level on the receiver!


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

And I guess I can assume you've swapped left to right and vise versa on those adapters just to be sure it's not a left vs. right channel thing?

Do you feel it's output or input? By this I mean have you ignored the calibration file and just tried plugging the line output into your receivers AUX or CD in and see if theres lots of drive by using the signal generator in REW, or is it weak. And also plugging your meter into the line in and talking into it and see if the level in REW jumps around nicely or is it weak....

brucek


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

brucek,
I ran my 1/8 stereo cable with RCA jacks into the input on my amp from the output of the sound blaster as you said and got equal volume on both R and L speakers.
Then I plugged in my 1/8 inch stereo to mono plugs into the soundblaster output for the R and L speakers and pluged the 1/8 to RCA cable in the adapter and then to the amp at this point I tried both adapters and I get sound only out of the L speaker no matter which plug in the 2 adapter I use. Does this make any since.
Thanks,
Leon


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

brucek,
Is this the correct adapter.
Thanks,
Leon

http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...+mono&kw=1/8+stereo+to+mono&parentPage=search


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I ran my 1/8 stereo cable with RCA jacks into the input on my amp from the output of the sound blaster as you said and got equal volume on both R and L speakers.
> Then I plugged in my 1/8 inch stereo to mono plugs into the soundblaster output for the R and L speakers and pluged the 1/8 to RCA cable in the adapter and then to the amp at this point I tried both adapters and I get sound only out of the L speaker no matter which plug in the 2 adapter I use. Does this make any since.


Sorry, but I just can't figure out what you're saying. Can you put it another way.



> and pluged the 1/8 to RCA cable in the adapter


This sounds like you're plugging a 1/8" stereo plug into a 1/8" mono jack of the adapter? Hope not...



> Is this the correct adapter.


Yes, it takes a 1/8" stereo signal and 'breaks it out' into two mono 1/8" signals (a left channel and a right channel). This now allows you to plug a 1/8" mono plug into either of the 'broken out' 1/8" mono jacks of the adapter and feed a single channel of your receiver. If you have one of these adapters on the line-in and line-out of the soundcard, you would plug a single cable with 1/8" mono plugs on either end and short a single channel for the soundcard test.


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi koiman, (and all)!....

I think, as brucek suggests, if you are using a stereo jack-to-jack cable to connect between your stereo to mono adapters, this will lead to a lot of confusion, and only some combinations will work....

I've attached a picture which tries to explain what's happening - In the picture, you can see how the contacts are made on a mono jack or a stereo jack IF they are used on the correct socket. But, if you use a STEREO jack in a MONO socket, the RIGHT channel connection will usually be either "grounded" inside the socket, or disconnected altogether.

So, because the sockets on your stereo-to-mono adapters are all MONO sockets, if you use your stereo jack-to-RCA cable, the "LEFT" RCA plug output (white) will depend on which side of the adapter you plug the cable into (L or R), but the "RIGHT" RCA plug output (red) will never usually output any signal at all.

Remember, a mono socket can output (or input) a right or left channel signal, it all depends on how it's wired internally.

If Room EQ Wizard is trying to use the RIGHT channel on either the speaker output or line input, you should be able to get the loop back to work as long as you plug your loop back cable into the "R" sockets on BOTH adapters. Or, try plugging your loop back cable into the "L" sockets on BOTH adapters.

Ideally, you could have used stereo jack to RCA socket adapters, which generally makes things a bit simpler.

Also, as others have said, don't use the "What U Hear" input, as this is a digital loop back, and not a "real" loop back at all.


OzOnE.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

brucek,
What I a trying to say is that I have two 1/8 stereo to mono plugs And I only get a signal through the Left output on the plugs.. No signal out on the Right, I used the signal gererator in REW. I would think there should be a signal at both the Right and Left out put of the adapter. I hope you understand what I am trying to convey
Thanks,
Leon


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi koiman,

I just noticed that on the new version of Room EQ Wizard (I haven't used it for a while), it has a choice for the "Input channel", so you could try changing that and see what happens.

But, you still need to have the loop back cable connected to the same sockets on both adapters for it to work. ie RIGHT output to RIGHT input etc.

As brucek says though, you should be using a mono jack-to-jack cable for your loop back cable.

OzOnE.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

What do the ends of these two cables look like? And the other end?









*You want it to look like this:*









*Not this:*









*If your cables look like this on one end:*








*And this on the other end:*









*Then you can forget about the mono-to-stereo adapter things. *

Just plug those cables directly from your soundcard to your receiver. Then, on the way in, you will most likely use the left input only from your SPL meter (you can also use the right, it's selectable in REW; but the left is the default, and the most commonly used).

That's the way I do it (without knowing your soundcard; I'm assuming that it's stereo in and out).


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzOnE,
I tried what you said about changing Right to Left in both the REW and also on the adpter and I have the same problem. I am using a Mono wire for loop back. My Stereo to mono adapters only has signal on the Left output.
Thanks,
Leon


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi, otto,

I just changed the text on the mono jack picture, as I realized it could be used for either, so sorry about the confusion. Also, I realized that I called the plugs "jacks", but "jacks" are usually "sockets" in the US ! I'll stick to good ol' "plugs" and "sockets" from now on!

OzOnE.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
The cables that I am using are 6 ft. Mono between the adapters. 1st selection on your picture list.
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

OzOnE said:


> Hi, otto,
> 
> I just changed the text on the mono jack picture, as I realized it could be used for either, so sorry about the confusion. Also, I realized that I called the plugs "jacks", but "jacks" are usually "sockets" in the US ! I'll stick to good ol' "plugs" and "sockets" from now on!
> 
> OzOnE.


No problem! I didn't even catch the plugs/sockets stuff, and I knew what was up with the Left on the mono. But, yeah, you're right; the tip of the 1/8" mono plug can be left or right (and will be determined by the split out on the mono-to-stereo adapter).


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi, koiman,

I'm not sure what is happening then in that case. The difficulty is finding out if it's your input, output, or both which are only working on one channel?

Try downloading Realtime Analyser RAD....

http://www.ymec.com/dl/audio/PcAudioLTEMe.exe

It's a very handy program, but the trial only lasts a few days. You can use it to see if your cables are working.... Install the program (Realtime Analyser RAD), choose your line input from the "Device" list, check the "Input" box, then click on Signal Generator, choose a frequency around 1000Hz and click the Start button....

With your loop back cable connected, you should see either the blue or pink bars at quite high levels under "Peak Level Monitor" on the main window. This should at least show if you are getting any kind of loop back at all, or if it's only on one channel.

OzOnE.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

koiman said:


> Otto,
> The cables that I am using are 6 ft. Mono between the adapters. 1st selection on your picture list.
> Thanks,
> Leon


On both ends?


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzOnE,
I down loaded the RTA and ran it, on input Blue top line reached about 3/4 inch and pink line only reached 1/2 that.

On output the blue and pink line ran all the way over to the end.

Even with out any thing pluged in the output run's all the way to the end.

Thanks,
Leon


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi,

Yes, the outputs should be near to full scale when the signal generator is set to 100%, this shows the test tone level which you will hear from the speaker outputs (remember to keep the receiver / amp volume low with test tones!)

It still looks like the input is wrong somewhere then. It might be to do with the Soundblaster driver settings? I don't know much about your card, but I'm still using an old Soundblaster Live card on this machine.

You need to see which of the sockets on your speaker output adapter is producing sound (by connecting to your amp - keep the amp volume low!), then connect your loop back cable to this output. Then, run Realtime Analyser again, and try connecting the other end of the loop back to each socket on your line-in adapter while watching the "Input" meter on RTA.

If you still don't get any decent amount of input on either socket, then it must be a driver settings issue, or the choice of input which the software is choosing?

You could try the RTA thing again, but while choosing different input settings on the Soundblaster settings to see if anything changes.

OzOnE.

P.S. I must get off to bed now before I turn into Shrek ! See ya later.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
Yes on both ends. This is the cable that I run between the 2 adapters for the card calibration I can't seem to master.
Thanks,
Leon


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzOnE,
I tried your suggestion and hooked it up the way you said and I am getting the same readings.
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

OK. Let's suppose we just skip the soundcard calibration for now. 

Skip to the calibrating-the-levels part. 

Run REW to output the sub cal sound. Turn up the soundcard and/or the receiver till your SPL meter reads 75 dB.

When you do that, can you get a 75 dB reading in REW?


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
I did what you said in the previous line and here is a picture of the results. If you look at the meter reading you will see that the input was insuffcient to get a accurate reading.
Thanks,
Leon


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi, koiman,

You seem to have all your Sound Blaster settings correct. Your post (#23) looks correct, and each of the mute icons look OK....

Did you also set the bit rate etc. as it's shown in this thread?.....

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-rew-forum/578-rew.html

If you're sure you know which side of the adapter on your speaker output is giving out sound (when tested through your amp), it must still be an input problem?

Although you might be experiencing a separate problem, the first logical step for me would still be to see if you're getting any input at all from the Sound Blaster.....

Try downloading an audio editor.....

http://audacity.sourceforge.net/

....Then plug a microphone into each side of your input adapter and see if Audacity records any sound?

Alternatively, you could also try connecting your RCA cable between your DVD player (while playing a music CD), then click record on Audacity, and connect the 1/8" end of your RCA cable to each side of the input adapter again to see if anything records. Also, try removing the adapter and plug the 1/8" end directly into the SB Live line-in to test the difference.

If you still don't get anything recorded at all, then I really don't know what's going on?

OzOnE.


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

koiman said:


> OzOnE,
> I tried what you said about changing Right to Left in both the REW and also on the adpter and I have the same problem. I am using a Mono wire for loop back. My Stereo to mono adapters only has signal on the Left output.
> Thanks,
> Leon


I believe the normal way that one would test is to click Left in in REW and use Left in on the connection. Same for the Right in. Is this how you did it? If so, the tests assume correctness in hardware and software. While the software may have been thoroughly tested, I am not sure if your sound hardware and cables and adapters have been thoroughly tested. For a more thorough testing, you would need to test the following. Looking at previous posts, I don't see that these possibilities were tested. Don't laugh even though it may not make any sense. Do these on the Soundblaster Live 24 to do calibration. Without (<-- not a typo) changing the Input Select in REW, do each test below separately:

Before starting each test, turn down the receiver/amp volume. DO NOT change the Input Selection in REW. If you have selected the Right Line In in REW, leave it unchanged in all the tests below:

Test 1: Connect the Right Line Out to the Left Line In and see if it works.
Test 2: Connect the Right Line Out to the Right Line In and see if it works.
Test 3: Connect the Left Line Out to the Left Line In and see if it works.
Test 4: Connect the Left Line Out to the Right Line In and see if it works.

Best Wishes to you.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

MakeFlat,
I hooked up the wires the 4 ways you said and ran the sound card check level and I still have a low input the same as always. I didn't hook this up to and amp! I don't understand how you mean to set it up with tha amp other then when using the mono plugs swap the out put to the amp on each switch.
Thanks,
Leon


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzonE,
I downloaded the recorder and tried to record sound from my XM radio by plugging the XM into the line in on the sound blaster and pushing the record button on the downloaded recorder and I did'nt get any sound. Of course I had the output plugged into my amp.
Thanks,
Leon


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi,

OK, then there is definitely a problem with the line input on your Sound Blaster, or with the drivers. Obvisouly, the sound OUTPUT is working, so it must be something wrong with the input?

I think MakeFlat was basically saying to just try every combination for your loop-back connection since you have TWO adapters, and TWO sockets on each adapter, there are FOUR possible combinations to test. 

(The part about the amp volume was just a general warning in case you had your amp connected via the SPDIF output or something.)

You could try unplugging the adapter from the line-in socket on your Sound Blaster, plug your XM radio directly into the MIC input on the front of the Sound Blaster, then try recording again.

When you tried your XM radio into the line-in socket, did you get no sound at all on Audacity?

Have you ever used the line input or mic input on your Sound Blaster before? Maybe it is faulty, or maybe the drivers need re-installing?

You might be running out of options here if you can't get any input to work correctly I'm afraid.

OzOnE.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzOnE,
I tried to plug the xm Radio into the Line input and also the front Mic jack and run the recorder and I didn't get any sound, in fact I also plugged in a mic and absolutely no sound. I even just replaced the Sound Blaster Live 24 for a new one and this has made no difference. I am using the new USB cable but other than that everything is the same I checked all the settings and they are all correct.
Thanks,
Leon


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi,

This is very strange. It must be a software problem I suppose?

If you go into the standard Windows mixer, then set it to "Recording" mode (Options > Properties > Recording), what are the inputs that it shows you? (You might have to turn on the Windows mixer icon first.)

It seems that the Sound Blaster 24 external only has one main "Line-in / Mic" input - I wonder how it handles things when a mic is plugged in at the same time as the line-in socket? It probably turns the other input off?

The only other thing I can suggest is that you fully un-install your old Sound Blaster drivers, then re-install them and try again.

Sorry I can't be of more help.

OzOnE.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzOnE,
When i go into the recording properties with the sound balster plugged in ther are 2 boxes Line IN/Mic which has a check in the box and the second is What U Hear which is not checked. Now i have completely change everything out including the software and I still don't have enought input to go any higher than -67.5 and it need to be around -12. I have check all the setting multipal times and all the setting are set correctly. I am at my whits end.
Thanks,
Leon:hissyfit:


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Okay, can you post a picture of Control panel-->Sound (the speaker icon)-->Audio tab? Are you running Windows XP? (just a checklist). Did you have Java Runtime V6 u1 installed? (another checklist)


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi,

MakeFlat has another very good point - you have to be sure you only have one instance of the Sound Blaster listed under "Sound Playback", and "Sound Recording", and that they are both set correctly.

I have problems with my HTPC when the BIOS resets for some reason and the onboard C-Media sound is re-enabled. This causes Windows to pick it up as default and cause me to "loose" sound from my Audiotrak card.

Another thing you could try is connecting your loop back cable from the headphones socket on your amp to the line input on the SB and see if the level gets higher. I would start the amp volume VERY low first though, then increase it slightly. Also, it's probably not a good idea to go too loud on the amp with the SB connected!!

OzOnE.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

MikeFlat,
The first picture is when I go to the speaker I con through Control Panel.









The second Picture is after I change the sound choice to the Sound Blaster.









The default sound card appears even with the Soun blaster USB cable attached to the computer.
Running windows XP
Java Version 1.5.0

I hope this is what you wanted to see.
Thanks,
Leon


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Leon,

Check if you have Java Runtime V5 or higher. I have marked the audio tab. I think the third selection( under Midi) should be okay but check if there are other choices like Soundblaster...


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

MakeFlat,
I set all the sound settings to sound blaster and tried to run the sound card cal. and still same situation.
Here is a photo of my Java.. This is from the java icon on the control panel.. it checks every 30 day's for updates.








Thanks,
Leon


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Leon, 

See if you can bring Java Runtime Environment V5 to the top. I don't know how that was done since I installed JRE 6.0U1. Anyway, the instructions for installing JRE V5 is explained in:http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

Edit: It may be that JAVA 2 includes JRE V5 Update 10 but I am not aware of that, not being a JAVA expert.


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

koiman said:


> MakeFlat,
> I set all the sound settings to sound blaster and tried to run the sound card cal. and still same situation.
> Leon


Exit out of REW. Then check that Audio tab a second time. After that run REW from the start and check "Settings" under REW - SB Live should be selected as Output and Input devices. SPEAKER should be selected for SB Live Output and LINE-IN/MIC IN selected for SB Live Input Remember always to start from a low volume on your receiver.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Nick,
I followed all your instructions.. Nothing changed I ran the sound card cal 3 more time all is the same . all the control panel settings sayed where I set them and the sound card settings also stayed the same. This just doesn't make any since. My Java is version 6 update 1
Leon


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Leon,

We need to check the recording capability of your Line-In on the SB box. See if you can record your own voice after checking that Line In is active in Creative. Do this via Creative Recording. Be sure to try the left Line In and the right Line In as well, by plugging your RS SPL meter into Line In. Oh, one more item to check - check the RS SPL meter battery when you switch that to the Batt on the meter.


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi,

It looks like your PC might still be picking up the Nforce (onboard) sound for recording since that would make perfect sense. From your previous screenshots, you can see that very low level sound is being recorded, which is probably just the natural noise from the onboard sound.

You could try setting the playback and record devices to Nforce, then plug the loop back cable between the output and line in on the back of the motherboard (usually green and blue sockets).

If that works, you could try setting up REW with the Nforce sound for a while to see if it all works. If you really still want to use the SB USB, then it might be an idea to completely uninstall the Nforce sound drivers, disable the onboard sound option in the BIOS, make sure your playback AND recording devices are set to the SB USB again, and try REW again.

Do your last screenshots mean that your recording device might have been set to Nforce before? If so, then try recording from the XM radio again or from a microphone.

Also, always double-check that Windows mixer has the correct settings and that "Line-in/Mic in" is selected for recording under Options > Properties > click Recording > OK. And make sure it has the Sound Blaster listed at the bottom of the mixer window for both playback AND recording options.

OzOnE


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Leon, OzOnE is right. If you can use Nforce, you will not need SB Live. By the way, when was the last time you rebooted your PC?


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OK Guy's,
I have a major question.. WHEN I STARTED THIS PROJECT I purchased all my cables at Radio Shack and this is one of the cables they told me I need, after taking a close look at the package label this AM I noticed the word *ATTENUATING AUDIO CABLE Mono Cable 42-2152A 1/8 MONO PHONE PLUG TO 1/8 MONO PHONE PLUG *90db ATTENUATION*. Could this cable be my problem and if so can someone give me a correct number for the correct cable from Radio Shack.
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

I'm more concerned that your input is still selecting NVIDIA. Have you been able to get this to change to SB?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

koiman said:


> OK Guy's,
> I have a major question.. WHEN I STARTED THIS PROJECT I purchased all my cables at Radio Shack and this is one of the cables they told me I need, after taking a close look at the package label this AM I noticed the word *ATTENUATING AUDIO CABLE Mono Cable 42-2152A 1/8 MONO PHONE PLUG TO 1/8 MONO PHONE PLUG *90db ATTENUATION*. Could this cable be my problem and if so can someone give me a correct number for the correct cable from Radio Shack.
> Thanks,
> Leon


From the RS site:



> Record from a line-level output with our 6.56-foot attenuating dubbing cord. It connects the earphone jack from a radio, cassette or CD player to a recorder's input or mic jack via 1/8" phone plugs on each end.


They are describing the earphone jack as "line-level". I would describe the output of your SP card as "line-level". Then they say that that signal is going to go into an "input or mic jack". If their intention is to drop that signal from a line-level to a mic level, there may be a problem.

You just want a straight-through extension cable. Go back and see what else they have that _looks_ the same, but with a different description -- without the attenutation...

Still, did you ever get any input when just using the RS meter as your input. I'm still thinking there's something wrong with it being the NVIDIA input.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

I think you want this one.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
As long as my soudblaster is plugged into the USB port my setting in the control panel refer to the sound blaster. I also have another question the cable that runs from the sound blaster out to the amp should it be a 3.5mm mono to RCA? or a 3.5mm stereo to RCA?
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

To go to the stereo, I would skip the mono to stereo adapter thing and just use a stereo 1/8" to dual RCAs. 

Looks like we might have posted at the same time. Did you see my link to RS two above?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

koiman said:


> Otto,
> As long as my soudblaster is plugged into the USB port my setting in the control panel refer to the sound blaster.


Hi Leon,

That's not what your pictures shows (as pointed out by MakeFlat)....


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
No I didn't see the post above.. Thanks Do you think the attenuating 1/8 cable could be causing the lack of input? no matter what I do I can't get a input reading above -65db.
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Maybe, if it's attenuation by 90dB with the intention of dropping a line level signal to a mic level signal. I would definitely go back to RS and get the other one I pointed to.

What if you put the RS meter (or other mic) directly into the sound card, without using that cable. You should see good input if you talk into the mic.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
I have tried plugging and unplugging the the SB several times this AM and I switches back and forth correctly between the SB and the Computer default.
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

So then does it look the same as this picture, or different? Note that in this picture, your input device is still listed as NVIDIA.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Otto,
This is what the sounds set up looks like.. And does every time I plug in the SB with the usb Plug.
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

OK! I like that one much better!

I'd swap that cable next.


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

koiman said:


> Otto,
> This is what the sounds set up looks like.. And does every time I plug in the SB with the usb Plug.
> Leon


Hmm... very interesting. I am learning something new. I think the PC remembers your last choice when you set recording to SB Live. I initially had to manually change those and I had to repeat those changes after my laptop overheated and shutdown. Since then, my laptop seems to remember my selections.


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Crikey. I've never used such a thing as an "attenuating" cable. That would explain a lot!

Apparently, these cables are usually used for connecting an amplified ear / speaker output to a line input etc., but the speaker output on the SB USB is most probably NOT amplified. The cable must have a resistor inside one of the plugs. I would avoid this cable like the plague.

It's a bit bad of Ratshack to sell you that cable, but I think they were guessing you had an amplified speaker output.

Oh well, I hope you get it sorted in the end. Now that your control panel looks correct, I would try recording XM or something using your RCA cable (which shouldn't be attenuated!).

OzOnE.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OK Guy's
The problem is fixed as far as the sound card calibration.. I returned the cable to Radio Shack and replaced it with a 3.5mm mono plug on each end and 6 foot long. The cable I had had a 90db attunation. Here is a picture of my sound card it only took 2 weeks to figure it out.
Thanks,
Leon


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Great news!!!!!


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi koiman,

That's great news. Glad you sorted it.

One thing though, if the black line in your last picture is the sound card calibration, it looks like you have bass redirection turned on (the slope goes up to 80Hz) - are you only using the SB for two-channel stereo (no surrounds), and do you have a sub?

If you're connecting the SB to your amp with a single stereo RCA cable and want your AV amp to "control" your speakers and sub, you should turn off the filters on the SB drivers and let the amp handle the bass redirection.

With the filtering enabled on the SB, you will get little or no bass. Also, REW might try to correct this situation and go a bit wrong.

OzOnE.

EDIT: Oh, I just noticed that the black line is the mic calibration line. The sound calibration looks great - I'm not sure why the mic calib rolls off like that though?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I'm not sure why the mic calib rolls off like that though?


Look at the vertical scale........


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

It looks like his mic calib file might have been corrupted. Leon, where did you get your mic calib file?


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

Nick,
Here is a shot of the current sound card setup.. I am using the cal. files for the CM-140 SPL meter.
Leon:bigsmile:


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Leon, it looks good.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> It looks like his mic calib file might have been corrupted. Leon, where did you get your mic calib file?


Makeflat, look at the vertical scale of the plot you're questioning. It has a swing of only +/-3dB. It exaggerates even the smallest changes. It only makes the cal file appear to drop radically. It's the scale that causes it. 

Now look at the graph in post #87. It has a swing of over 150dB. Do you see why the two plots look different, when they are representing identical data?

brucek


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

brucek said:


> Makeflat, look at the vertical scale of the plot you're questioning. It has a swing of only +/-3dB. It exaggerates even the smallest changes. It only makes the cal file appear to drop radically. It's the scale that causes it.
> 
> Now look at the graph in post #87. It has a swing of over 150dB. Do you see why the two plots look different, when they are representing identical data?
> 
> brucek


Ken, you are right. Anyone can have a flat looking response if the vertical scale is compressed!

I am going to do a series of REW measurements before they come home.


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

I was just surprised that the mic calib file rolls off that steeply, but in the second screenshot it looks fine, and it makes sense that it slopes quite a bit, as it goes right down to 5Hz!

Leon - it looks good now. Which amp / speakers / (sub?) are you using though?


OzOnE.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I was just surprised that the mic calib file rolls off that steeply, but in the second screenshot it looks fine





> It looks like his mic calib file might have been corrupted


And this is the reason I keep harping to everyone to post their graphs with a horizontal scale from 15Hz-200Hz and a vertical scale from 45dB-105dB. 

Any other scales will create confusion to anyone who isn't used to interpreting scales on a graph. That's why we stress consistency in scaling.

I can post two graphs using the same data and get completely different comments about them.

Here's two graphs using the same data. You can bet I would get a lot of different suggestions about them, even though they're the same measurement.

















brucek


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

Hi brucek,

Good point about the scaling. I saw the sticky about the graph scaling but the thing that confused me was the fact that the mic calib file starts sloping off at 80Hz a bit like a "crossover" filter would do. I suppose this is mainly due to the measurement points in the calib file being kept low while still maintaining realative accuracy?

Is the CM-140 really that flat from 80Hz to 20KHz? - I still don't have a proper measurement mic or SPL meter yet, and was wondering if it would be worth me just buying a CM-140 for both purposes, or just get an ECM8000 like almost everyone else has plus a cheap SPL meter?

I've been messing around for ages now with a home built mic made from a WM-61A capsule, bodged mic preamp, and Phonic mixer, but it never sounds quite right. I'm actually using it for DRC on my HTPC, and the improvements in the bass performance are already very impressive.

So, to anyone thinking of building your own mic, I wouldn't bother! Electronics is my main hobby, but I still can't get the noise levels low enough from my home built mic, or get a decent DRC measurement. A home built mic might be suitable for REW, but I could have saved myself so much time and frustration and just forked out £40 for an ECM8000 instead!

I will definitely consider getting a BFD in the near future as it looks like it gets the sub response MUCH closer to ideal without the need for the PC. The obvious problems with the HTPC are noise, ease of use, time to boot etc. I've actually been looking everywhere for a cheap DSP solution to DRC, but it doesn't look like that's going to happen any time soon. There are more of my ramblings about this on diyaudio for anyone who's interested.....

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1178549#post1178549


OzOnE.

P.S. does anyone know which DSP chip(s) or main CPU the BFD's use?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I suppose this is mainly due to the measurement points in the calib file being kept low while still maintaining relative accuracy?
> 
> Is the CM-140 really that flat from 80Hz to 20KHz?


No, the calibration file goes to 200Hz. REW extends the line from the last known point, which is 200Hz.
It's flat from 80Hz to 200Hz. Above that it is "likely" flat, but no guarantees. The CM-140 is a fairly good meter though. It has very good consistency between meters, which allows you to have better confidence that our generic calibration file will be accurate for your meter. It's a **** shoot with a Radio Shack variety.

brucek


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

brucek said:


> ...have better confidence that our generic calibration file will be accurate for your meter. It's a **** shoot with a Radio Shack variety.
> 
> brucek


How much variations are there from one RS meter to other RS meters? I thought there was a post somewhere but I could not recall it.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

See here...


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

brucek said:


> See here...


Thank you. That's exactly what I was looking for.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzOnE,
The main reason that I wanted to set up the soundblaster was to calibrate my Salk Veracity HT3 stereo speakers. In my Stereo system I am running Channel Island D-200 Mono Amps, Exempler Denon 3910 DVD player and a Modwright 9.0 SE Pre Amp. I also have my home theater system Which has (4) Axiom M 80 Ti Speakers (1) Axiom VP 150 Center channel (4) Axiom QS 8 and a SVS PB 12 Plus subwoofer. Also I have a Pair of Axiom M22 Ti and a pair of Axiom M3 Ti not to mention a pair of 1970 ESS Heil Speakers the play every day. Denon 3803 AV, a Denon 2910 DVD Player amd multipal other DVD Players And SS and Tube amps. I am crazy when It comes to audio sound.
Leon
:hissyfit:


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## OzOnE (Jan 23, 2007)

koiman said:


> I am crazy when It comes to audio sound.
> Leon


Blimey, this stuff is way over my head at this point. I'm only using three M&K LCR-55's for the fronts, four Mordaunt Short MSB-20 dipole rears, and a VX-4 sub. My amp is a Denon AVC-A11SR which I got for the bargain price of £250 (around $500), which is very cheap for this amp on eBay atm (well, in the UK at least.)

(The reason the Denon was cheap was that had a shorted center speaker amp section, so I swapped the working parts from the "Surround Back Right" channel to the center channel for a while until I recently got some new transistors from the US for around $50 to repair it properly.)

Your HT3's and Axioms look very nice indeed, but I'd have to win the lottery or something to come anywhere close atm! Also, SVS subs look very popular on the forums, so I might look into that when I can scrape some money together for some upgrades.

Good luck with REW!

OzOnE.


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## koiman (Jan 6, 2007)

OzOne,
I have a M&K subwoofer that I have had for 20 years, at the time I bought it i payed $1000.00 for it a couple years ago the power amp in it went out so I called M&K and asked if I could purchase a replacement amp for it and they told me to ship them the amp to check out, and a week later they sent it back to me upgraded and repaired free of charge. I noticed about a month ago the went out of business it is a real shame when ther are so few company's like them. 
Have a Great Day.. 
Leon:bigsmile:


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