# Is this the worst room you've ever seen?



## Guest (Apr 22, 2007)

My home office and jam studio is roughly 9'x9'x11' (tall) with a wood floor. Space is very tight, since my whole downtown condo is only 550ft^2. 

Some low notes on the piano are boomy while adjacent notes seem to disappear. There's no deep bass, but I wasn't expecting any with the $100 subwoofer I got to temporarily shore up the NHT SuperZeros. I guess I'll be buying a SunFire subwoofer, or the new F113.

For the past couple weeks I've been reading about active EQ vs. room treatment from vendors like RealTraps and GIK. I accept that room treatment is the path to better sound, but struggling with how to make that fit with the tight spaces in the room, and also not be too ugly. (Granted, the room's kind of ugly as it is, but it's a kind of ugly I like.)

For example, is there a way to cut the corner traps to deal with the pole shelving system I have? Or is there any point to treating the ceiling? Would filling the shelves with books (I have many books in storage) work as well as adding bass traps and such?

Also, are there consultants in the Seattle area who could help with this kind of thing? After this I want to put sound in my living room, which has its own challenges.

--mj


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

In a tight place like that, think about hanging panels straddling the wall/ceiling intersection all around the room. Small rooms require proportionately more treatment in the bottom end than larger rooms. Doing it up high will minimize or eliminate any further crowding of the bottom 7' of the room that you use and still give you good control.

Don't bother with another sub. You aren't going to get any in a square room that's untreated. Once you treat the room, I think you might be surprised what you'll get with what you have.

Bryan


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2007)

bpape said:


> In a tight place like that, think about hanging panels straddling the wall/ceiling intersection all around the room. Small rooms require proportionately more treatment in the bottom end than larger rooms. Doing it up high will minimize or eliminate any further crowding of the bottom 7' of the room that you use and still give you good control.
> 
> Don't bother with another sub. You aren't going to get any in a square room that's untreated. Once you treat the room, I think you might be surprised what you'll get with what you have.
> 
> Bryan


Bryan, you're suggesting something like Monster Bass Traps hung conventionally on the wall where it meets the ceiling rather than some kind of triangle with cuts to accomodate the poles? That sounds much easier to install than what I was thinking. I'm pretty interested in doing this. But way up at the ceiling, how many panels would I need before a typical listener would notice the difference? I've been visualizing all the bouncing around happening between the four walls at ear level.

I put my hand inside the port of the Yamaha 8" sub and felt nothing below 35Hz or so (unlike my Hsu in another room that you can feel at 27Hz). In fact putting my face right up to it there's not much below 60Hz unless I turn it so loud its upper range interferes with the NHT satellites. Are you sure I wouldn't also benefit from a sub with more bass extension and better roll off above 60Hz?

Not to sound argumentative, this is just how I learn stuff. I appreciate the info.

--mj


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## Guest (Apr 22, 2007)

I live in a 108-year old hotel in downtown Seattle that's been remodeled into tiny condos in the 80s. Since the bass traps are so thick, my girlfriend asked why I couldn't cut out drywall and embed them into the wall. Not knowing anything about building construction, I didn't have a good answer except that I haven't heard of anyone trying it.

--mj


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## Ethan Winer (Jul 21, 2006)

michael_98101 said:


> my girlfriend asked why I couldn't cut out drywall and embed them into the wall.


Because that will compromise sound isolation and your neighbors will have you evicted. :R

I agree with Bryan that wall-ceiling corners are a good place for traps, but plan for a few in wall-wall corners too, and possibly on the rear wall behind you too. With bass trapping, it's best to spread them around the room as evenly as you can.

--Ethan


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Agreed. 1 on the wall behind the seating position will help. Other than that, I'd start with 4 panels (or more if budget allows) hung at 45 degrees straddling the wall/ceiling corner to form a triangle with the wall surfaces. Start with the front and back walls.

4 in a room that size plus 1-2 on the walls should make a good difference.

Bryan


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2007)

Ethan Winer said:


> Because that will compromise sound isolation and your neighbors will have you evicted. :R


OK, now I get that drywall isolates better than acoustic foam, perhaps for the same reason it reflects?





Ethan Winer said:


> I agree with Bryan that wall-ceiling corners are a good place for traps, but plan for a few in wall-wall corners too, and possibly on the rear wall behind you too. With bass trapping, it's best to spread them around the room as evenly as you can.
> 
> --Ethan


Thank you. I guess I'll buy some thick bass traps and experiment with them. 

The lower half of the room also has a couple inches clearance behind the shelves. Is it worth also getting some of the thinner panels for this? The high frequency part of the spectrum sounds pretty good to me already.

--mj


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## Guest (Apr 23, 2007)

bpape said:


> Agreed. 1 on the wall behind the seating position will help. Other than that, I'd start with 4 panels (or more if budget allows) hung at 45 degrees straddling the wall/ceiling corner to form a triangle with the wall surfaces. Start with the front and back walls.


OK! Thanks. Budget's not a constraint as much as space and visual aesthetic concerns. I think I can mask the ceiling panels with some big hanging mobiles or something.



bpape said:


> 4 in a room that size plus 1-2 on the walls should make a good difference.


Bryan, so I understand your previous post, are you saying a better subwoofer is probably a lost cause because even the treated room will never support deep bass? Or are you saying I should do the room treatment before considering a subwoofer upgrade? 

In this case the existing sub is so pathetic I'm inclined to get a better one so I can properly evaluate the effects of room treatment. I'm attracted to the Sunfire EQ, or something else with a notch filter to help reduce whatever boom is still left in the square room after treatment.

--mj


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