# The ULTIMATE HTPC: The OneSource



## StereoClarity

This thread has been a long time coming. I didn't really want to post up anything till I got it working nearly 100%.This will likely become part of my product line once I get all the kinks worked out but for right now it's my favorite toy 

*The Case*
I'm using a Moneual Labs 932LB case. It has a touch screen 7" monitor built in. Not good for doing much except viewing a media player or getting info about the current stats. What I mean by current stats is that the front view program scrolls through news feeds, processor and ram utilization, and shows you if you have email. Kinda cool in my opinion but not critical. I chose the case because it's very attractive and has enough room for my..."other" plans, which we'll get to in a bit. The case also has 4 drive bays for an extreme amount of storage.

*Processing and RAM*
I wanted to start with a strong base in terms of hardware. The new Pentium processors are quite nice. I wanted speed and low energy consumption so I went with the I3 550 Clarksdale dual core. Way more processing power than I need but overkill is in my nature. This will be a reoccurring theme in most of my builds. I took the same approach with RAM, 8GB should be enough I think. 

*Storage*
I'm a storage guy and my storage setup was thought out. I wanted ALL media on an internal 2TB drive. I started with a SeaGate Barracuda and moved over to a Hitachi Deskstar. I find the Hitachi is significantly quieter. I now keep the SeaGate in my closet for backup purposes. The main drive is a PCIe SSD from OCZ. For those of you that don't speak nerd, it's a solid state disk that fits into one of the PCI express slots. An SSD is lightyears faster than a traditional spinning disk and the PCIe interface (vs SATA) is much faster. What does this mean? It means the computer boots very fast and programs launch instantly. To test the drive I threw a bunch of programs into the startup folder (iTunes, Windows Media Center, ALL of Microsoft Office, RoomEQ Wizard). About 2 seconds after typing in my password from the startup screen it had finished the startup procedure and all of those programs were up and running. Sick right? The plan was to only keep the OS and programs on the SSD for reasons I'll explain here in a moment.

*One thing I want to note is that my first OCZ SSD went down in flames after about a month. The problem with current SSD technology is that you can only write to the drive so many times before it degrades the disk. So it's an optimal drive for things that don't change very often like the operating system and programs. This was why I have a separate 2TB drive dedicated for everything storage. The other reason is that if I ever get a virus or have the main drive die (...and it did) I really didn't lose anything because all my files are on the other drive. Can you imagine having to rip your entire music and DVD collection again? Me either. Do it right with a separate drive (or drives) and take regular backups. OCZ mailed me a replacement drive because they believe the other one was defective. I'm going to install it later this week *fingers crossed*

*Everything Else*
Other than that, my hardware is largely unspecific. I have an Asus mother board with all the connectivity I need including HDMI and a 750watt power supply that's total overkill. I have a total of 6 fans in the case. I have the one on the processor (standard) and the one contained in the power supply. Then, I have two fans pulling in fresh air that goes right in front of the hard drive bays. I then have two exhaust fans that blow out the rear of the case. There are also some slits in the top of the case for vertical heat dissipation. 

*OS and Media Player*
I'm using Windows 7 as my OS. This HTPC was meant to be my home computer as well as a media center. I use it for everything including CAD drawings in Inventor which is way the extra RAM and processing power will come in handy. On top of that, Microsoft Office programs and the lot, Windows 7 was a shoe in. Now for those of you who say, "waaaah, Windows is junk, get a Unix derivitive of some sort....waaaaah".....can it! Windows 7 is actually really bad and it provides the flexibility I need for it to be my home computer. And to add fuel to your fire, I'm using Windows Media Center. Yep, I figured out how to make it do everything I want. Movie Meta Data, BlueRay, you name it. I use DVDFab for ripping movies. It gets the metadata automatically and meshes with WMC perfectly. I keep the menus and scene selections, everything I want. I'm thinking about trying out a Ceton InfiniTV card for TV and DVR. I don't have cable because I don't watch it but if I did I'd totally pick up this card. It replaces your DVR box and uses WMC as the guide. Pretty much the coolest thing to ever fit in a PCI slot.

*Why it's ULTIMATE*
So now for the good stuff. I'm on a quest to replace my receiver with this box as well. I decided to start out with some class D amps. I have 4x250watts @8ohms in the HTPC being fed by a MiniDSP. So if you were doubting if something like this would work, don't. It works fantastic and provides me the ability to do active crossovers on speakers without passive crossovers internal. I normally run these amps in stereo to a set of the tower speakers that I sell. Great sound quality and tons of power headroom. As of right now I run optical to my receiver for movie surround sound. I haven't figured out a way to get the dolby decoding and stuff like that yet. Key word being 'yet'. I'm working with a manufacturer to get an 8 channel USB DAC produced. My plan is to run that USB DAC to an internal 7 channel amp (which I've already source) and use the 8th channel for a sub pre-out.

Here are a few pictures of the build process.


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## Zeitgeist

That's a pretty sweet case. I'm rarely a fan of HTPC cases (they are too expensive for an ugly box) - but that looks very very slick.

Nicely done.

That's a ton of output on that mobo too.


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## StereoClarity

Zeitgeist said:


> Nicely done.
> 
> That's a ton of output on that mobo too.


Thank you sir. 

There shall be more output coming soon...ICEpower baby! If I can get it to work for surround sound I'll have sucessfully made the DVR, DVD, BlueRay, computer, cable box, DSP, and the receiver...obsolete :bigsmile:


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## Zeitgeist

You happy with WMC?

I haven't used it enough to have a strong opinion of it yet..


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## StereoClarity

Zeitgeist said:


> You happy with WMC?
> 
> I haven't used it enough to have a strong opinion of it yet..


It's sick if you use it right. Really a great interface.

I've been meaning to make a video of it's use (with HippoRemote) and hopefully I'll do that soon. Maybe tonight if my line array project doesn't take up too much of my time.


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## ironglen

Wow, and to think my htpc has never been finished- haven't been able to get an OS on it :rolleyesno:
Is that a toroidal transformer in there?


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## Tony_Montana

i dont like the whole idea at all.

it might be a good idea for audio

a 2011 htpc that is not bitstreaming is an awful idea

its 100% bad idea for video.


it would be better to buy a newer intel`s sandy bridge 

where is the discrete gpu?
intel`s onboard grafics sometimes are nightmare


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## StereoClarity

ironglen said:


> Wow, and to think my htpc has never been finished- haven't been able to get an OS on it :rolleyesno:
> Is that a toroidal transformer in there?


Man up and get it done so you can start enjoying it!

And yes, it's 15lbs in case you were wondering lol



Tony_Montana said:


> i dont like the whole idea at all.
> 
> it might be a good idea for audio
> 
> a 2011 htpc that is not bitstreaming is an awful idea
> 
> its 100% bad idea for video.
> 
> 
> it would be better to buy a newer intel`s sandy bridge
> 
> where is the discrete gpu?
> intel`s onboard grafics sometimes are nightmare


To be honest I'm not really sure what you're talking about. Can you clarify?

It's a fantastic idea for audio in all respects. The new DAC should provide bit perfect audio to 8 channels. I'm expecting it to spec like a champ.

I don't have a video card because I honestly don't need it for my use. It plays back everything fine (including bluray). Now, does that mean the picture quality is 100%? n
No. But my eyes aren't all that awesome and my TV is 40" so it's really not an issue. Eventually when I get a larger TV I'll get something but now it's not a priority. As an audio guy SOUND is my priority which is why I'm working on that first. 

Oh, and congrats on your first post. Welcome to the shack!


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## Tony_Montana

first of all i did not mean to be rude.
this propably would be a very nice alternative to a cd transport or mp3/flac streaming + dac
but its not an ultimate pc for Home Theater
it will have issues with audio since it does not support bitstreaming
even if you found the perfect diy board for decoding HD audio codecs and dac for digital to analog conversion
how will you achieve room correction,eq,bass management using analog outputs?
intel`s onboard grafics is not a good idea for video ,too

^^ just my 2 cents

it would be better to make a cheaper htpc 
and make an external diy usb dac


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## StereoClarity

No offense taken my friend. I know that the intel onboard graphics aren't optimal but it's lower on the "to do" list. Like I said in the initial post, it's not finished yet and is still a work in progress. It's a learning process for me too since this really isn't my ballgame.

I'm not fluent on the bitstreaming topic. Can you go into more detail about that? As I understand it, most send signals via PCM which is a slightly compressed version of the audio or something? I understand compression but is that what's going on with that? Other than having no compression (at least with respect to the digital source) what's the benefit? I wasn't aware that PCM was really that compressed.

And to be honest. I don't think 95% of the people out there will ever hit the sound limits of PCM. They just don't have speakers of that caliber...sadly


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## eugovector

Bitstreaming is sending uncompressed Audio to an external decoder. In this case the decoding is being done at the cpu, and then, as I understand your design, converted to analog to be sent to the internal amps. There is nothing wrong with this approach, in fact, it's the only way to get Audio, HD or otherwise, if you are looking to eliminate external amplification.

I think Tony may be misunderstanding your design.


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## StereoClarity

^That's exactly right. But if I were to use a USB DAC (inside the case) it would be doing the digital to analog conversion there with the highest quality possible. I should even be able to play DSD files at that point.


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## TypeA

Lossless codecs support and multiple hdmi out were the first things that came to my mind, suppose those can be both be fixed with add on cards tho. Youre also unique in that you dont have any cable, the vast majority of folks do. As a result hdmi IN would be a requirement for most to consider it an ultimate as you do. The amps in a pc case are cool tho, how much did the case cost you?


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## StereoClarity

TypeA said:


> Lossless codecs support and multiple hdmi out were the first things that came to my mind, suppose those can be both be fixed with add on cards tho. Youre also unique in that you dont have any cable, the vast majority of folks do. As a result hdmi IN would be a requirement for most to consider it an ultimate as you do. The amps in a pc case are cool tho, how much did the case cost you?


I'll be honest, the case was a bit pricey at $450. But it's a nice piece IMO and is very well made.

What lossless codecs are you referring to? WAV, FLAC, Apple lossless? All of that plays without a problem.

And like I said, I thought about getting the Ceton cable card but I really have no use for it since I don't watch TV. I'd pick one up for sure if there was any programming that didn't suck 

And why would you need multiple HDMI outs? For multiple TV's? You don't need anything to go to a receiver if you have no need for a receiver!


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## vann_d

Looks like a very nice start. I love the concept of eliminating the receiver. 

Unfortunately, I'm finding that content providers are now making the HTPC a less desireable option all the time. I love my HTPC but finding out that Netflix works better on standalone devices (which is absurd) and also that VUDU only provides SD is disheartening.

It just seems like something is always getting in the way of it being the best option available when it really should be the ultimate.


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## StereoClarity

Maybe NetFlix knows that people with HTPC's have the ability to rip movies and don't want customers using it? lol


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## TypeA

StereoClarity said:


> I'll be honest, the case was a bit pricey at $450. But it's a nice piece IMO and is very well made.
> 
> What lossless codecs are you referring to? WAV, FLAC, Apple lossless? All of that plays without a problem.


Doesnt seem a bad price for such a monster case, assuming it includes the display and case fans. Home theater codecs. I know anything is possible with expansion but is support built in on your mobo for dolbyhd and dtsmaster?



> And why would you need multiple HDMI outs? For multiple TV's? You don't need anything to go to a receiver if you have no need for a receiver!


Most homes have at least two TVs and in a home theater environment, like a htpc would see, flat panel/front projection combos are even more common.


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## StereoClarity

TypeA said:


> Doesnt seem a bad price for such a monster case, assuming it includes the display and case fans. Home theater codecs. I know anything is possible with expansion but is support built in on your mobo for dolbyhd and dtsmaster?
> 
> Most homes have at least two TVs and in a home theater environment, like a htpc would see, flat panel/front projection combos are even more common.


Yeah it came with the display and fans. I added the two fans over the drives as a precaution. Even with the amps running full tilt (which is downright ludicrous loud) the case doesn't even get above room temperature. I don't know if either of those encoding formats are built in to my motherboard. How would I be able to tell? One thing I do know that shipped with my motherboard is a fan controller. I have a small program that monitors what I'm doing on the PC. If I'm not killing the processor (like never) it turns down the fans so it's DEAD quiet. Even at a distance of 6 feet I can't hear it and my ears are good.


And what are you guys talking about, "Interface woes" and "htpc still a complicated computer"...?
Have you even used Windows Media Center? It's so easy my grandpa could use it; and he just got on email like last year. With HippoRemote you can create a macro to put in your windows password for you so you don't even need a keyboard. Although, HippoRemote has a keyboard built in. Hell, if it's just a HTPC you don't even need a password. And you can have Windows Media Center open when the machine boots so there's nothing complicated about it.

Do I need to film a video?


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## TypeA

No, as frontends go MCE has always been one of the most refined and user friendly of anything on the market. I dont doubt your satisfaction at all. If memory serves my htpc has 2002 on it and, while it seemed slow to load media even with bangin internet service and adequate pc specs, it was intuitive and very easy to use. I must admit Ive not used the MCE version included with my windows 7 laptop as my simple brp covers those duties and lacks nothing. 

What I mean by a htpc still being a complicated computer is that it is just that. It is a full-blown computer requiring hardware/software maintenance and good software/hardware integration to be reliable and stable. Blu ray players might need occasional updates but theyre pretty simple to do compared to keeping a htpc up-to-date. I also found that attempting to use a htpc to navigate web pages in my theater is not as easy as it sounds. Reading and navigating standard web pages on a 100" screen at 12' just isnt as seamless as 15" at 2'. I had tried motion mice and my htpc included remote, just never could get the interface of standard web pages smooth and user friendly like MCE plug-ins offers. So if you end up limited to MCE for an interface its great if you tend to archive your media and have the time and knowledge to create a media server. Otherwise there is no loss of major media services to just use a cheap and much more simple brp. Dont get me wrong, this was NOT the case a few years ago. Before dvd players did not come with internet media services like Blockbuster, Netflix, YouTube and Pandora, or computer file support like jpeg, mpeg 2 and 3, vc1, or wma like they do today. If you have the time, patience, and money to spend on a htpc it _is_ a more capable machine verses a brp, but not _nearly_ as much as some would like to think


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## vann_d

The main function of my HTPC now is to have DVR for network shows and sporting events in 1080i 5.1, pandora, full internet browsing,dvd and blu-ray.

Although I must say that I use my BDP-80 for blu-ray playback because the interface is better and playback more reliable than Power DVD 9.

I still use a full wireless keyboard and mouse (which can be a bit frustrating at times) for internet viewing and posting, like I'm doing now.

I have a Harmony 890 set up to control MC7 and that works great. All pc remotes I've tried had horrible range. This one is RF to a repeater so it works great even with the cabinet closed.

MC7 is great but it doesn't support blu-ray or services like HULU or ESPN3. Yes there are shortcuts to get there from MC7 but they don't work with keyboard control like the rest of MC7 and they are not set up for a 12' interface. Actually, yes you can get pretty seamless blu-ray playback but I haven't got it to work with PowerDVD, which I got for free with my BDP.

Lossless codecs are now supported no problem so no worries there, but only over HDMI as far as I know. So the OP will not get these tracks over analog or digital outs the way he is implementing them.

In the end, I paid about $500 for my HTPC and it saves me about $110 a month in sat subscription fees. No I don't get every episode of "Swamp People" (who knows, maybe I could) but the fact is that I'm better off for it. And now that I know I'll be getting NFL for free OTA, I couldn't be happier with the HTPC route.


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## TypeA

> The main function of my HTPC now is to have DVR for network shows and sporting events in 1080i 5.1, pandora, full internet browsing,dvd and blu-ray.
> 
> Although I must say that I use my BDP-80 for blu-ray playback because the interface is better and playback more reliable than Power DVD 9.
> 
> I still use a full wireless keyboard and mouse (which can be a bit frustrating at times) for internet viewing and posting, like I'm doing now.
> 
> I have a Harmony 890 set up to control MC7 and that works great. All pc remotes I've tried had horrible range. This one is RF to a repeater so it works great even with the cabinet closed.
> 
> MC7 is great but it doesn't support blu-ray or services like HULU or ESPN3. Yes there are shortcuts to get there from MC7 but they don't work with keyboard control like the rest of MC7 and they are not set up for a 12' interface. Actually, yes you can get pretty seamless blu-ray playback but I haven't got it to work with PowerDVD, which I got for free with my BDP.
> 
> Lossless codecs are now supported no problem so no worries there, but only over HDMI as far as I know. So the OP will not get these tracks over analog or digital outs the way he is implementing them.
> 
> In the end, I paid about $500 for my HTPC and it saves me about $110 a month in sat subscription fees. No I don't get every episode of "Swamp People" (who knows, maybe I could) but the fact is that I'm better off for it. And now that I know I'll be getting NFL for free OTA, I couldn't be happier with the HTPC route.


I totally understand the allure of a seemingly free dvr, it would save me money on my cable bill too! What Im not fond of, and this is really ironic, is the scheduling of recordings. Theres just something about having an entire computer come out of hibernation to record a program or have to leave the puter on 24/7 so it will record my shows. No, me personally, Id MUCH rather have Comcast's cable box come on throughout the day and night for such events. 

Im not sure how you save that much money when you only need the network channels. In my area just the networks are $9 a month and probably another $20 for a dvr. I admire someone whos so easy to satisfy in regards to programming. Im miserably addicted to The History Channel (or the Hitler Channel as I like to call it), The Military Channel, The Science Channel, DiscoveryHD, National Geographic HD, Discovery Science HD :foottap:

I can see why for you a htpc is the best choice. Im sure as Hulu becomes more mainstream support will be added to media center, its only just now taking off.


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## rantanamo

vann_d said:


> The main function of my HTPC now is to have DVR for network shows and sporting events in 1080i 5.1, pandora, full internet browsing,dvd and blu-ray.
> 
> Although I must say that I use my BDP-80 for blu-ray playback because the interface is better and playback more reliable than Power DVD 9.
> 
> I still use a full wireless keyboard and mouse (which can be a bit frustrating at times) for internet viewing and posting, like I'm doing now.
> 
> I have a Harmony 890 set up to control MC7 and that works great. All pc remotes I've tried had horrible range. This one is RF to a repeater so it works great even with the cabinet closed.
> 
> MC7 is great but it doesn't support blu-ray or services like HULU or ESPN3. Yes there are shortcuts to get there from MC7 but they don't work with keyboard control like the rest of MC7 and they are not set up for a 12' interface. Actually, yes you can get pretty seamless blu-ray playback but I haven't got it to work with PowerDVD, which I got for free with my BDP.
> 
> Lossless codecs are now supported no problem so no worries there, but only over HDMI as far as I know. So the OP will not get these tracks over analog or digital outs the way he is implementing them.
> 
> In the end, I paid about $500 for my HTPC and it saves me about $110 a month in sat subscription fees. No I don't get every episode of "Swamp People" (who knows, maybe I could) but the fact is that I'm better off for it. And now that I know I'll be getting NFL for free OTA, I couldn't be happier with the HTPC route.


- Move on from PowerDVD. There are better players that integrate better in the WMC. 
- What keyboard do you have? I have a keyboard with a built-in touch pad from a company called DSI. Its a rebranded clone of the Adesso keyboard. Awesome, with very accurate control and was only $19.99
- Do you frequent any of the Media Center Forums? Hulu integration works very well, as does the ESPNWMC. Not to mention there are third party add ons that do Hulu really well.


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## rantanamo

Theresa said:


> I believe this thread could be called a [edited] contest.


I don't know if its that, but I will defend the HTPC all day. The modern HTPC is low cost, low maintenance and most add-ons are very simple to use. Especially since the advent of Windows 7 Media Center. Yes, there are some far out difficult things you can do that will challenge the stability of a system, but most people don't touch those things. Yes, its seems far fetched and ridiculous to some, but I admire projects like the OPs. Fun and not the headache that people associate with older XP or Vista systems.


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## StereoClarity

I'm legitimately refusing to read like the last 10 posts but I did remember seeing someone ask about BluRay integration into MCE on Windows 7.

I use Arcsoft Total Media Theater. You just install it and it quite literally becomes part of the MCE interface. It's perfect.


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## TypeA

Sorry about that, it wasnt on purpose. FWIW I learned alot.


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## eugovector

Power usage of computers vs. cable boxes was brought up, so this article and referenced study seems germane: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/us/26cable.html?_r=1

Long story short, Cable/Satellite DVRs don't really turn "off", and many use more power than a modern computer. My HTPC wasn't design with low power consumption as major priority, but it uses less than 80 watts when it's on. Not only that, but because I pull my content on-demand and don't have to leave it running 24/7, it's only on a couple hours per day.

HTPCs built around AMDs Fusion platform really look to be the future. Sub 50watt systems should become common place, and current systems built around the Atom/Ion combo already clock sub 40 watts.


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## TypeA

eugovector said:


> Long story short, Cable/Satellite DVRs don't really turn "off", and many use more power than a modern computer.


 Dont forget noisy HDDs and lots of heat, my cable box is the hottest piece of gear I own, a significant statement coming from a Onkyo AVR owner.

Nice to hear lower powered HTPCs are becoming more common, anything that makes it easier for the common joe to buy something smaller and quieter (on the cheap) helps folks like me to understand the value more. 


This rig he mentioned a tuner card, are cable cards in the htpc world more of an option today than they were, say, 5 years ago? As all have noticed Ive not kept up to date on even the basics...


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## StereoClarity

Yeah, that's one of the reasons I chose my particular processor. It's rated at 73watts I believe. Almost no heat from anything inside the case. I can literally touch the heatsinks on the amp if I have the cover off.

Also, SSD for the OS drive is a dream come true. Boot time on this machine from a full shutdown is very quick. If you're booting from sleep mode it's probably about 4 seconds?


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## eugovector

TypeA said:


> This rig he mentioned a tuner card, are cable cards in the htpc world more of an option today than they were, say, 5 years ago? As all have noticed Ive not kept up to date on even the basics...


Depends on how many tuners you need. Would 6 be enough? http://www.hdhomerun.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/

The pain that came along with tuner cards was a direct result of market manipulation by the cable companies. Why would they want to approve products for the market place that would replace the boxes they were renting for $10-20/month in millions of households? That's the 1 billion dollar question.

Finally, the FCC stepped in to help a little: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/14/the-fcc-changes-the-cablecard-rules-but-not-dramatically/


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## TypeA

StereoClarity said:


> Also, SSD for the OS drive is a dream come true. Boot time on this machine from a full shutdown is very quick. If you're booting from sleep mode it's probably about 4 seconds?


I dropped my first ever ssd, a ocz 30gig, into my brand new dell studio 7 laptop two years ago, ssd is indeed a awesome thing. Media center is a significant load up, I can see ssd being a very big asset in a modern htpc...


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## TypeA

eugovector said:


> Depends on how many tuners you need. Would 6 be enough? http://www.hdhomerun.com/products/hdhomerun/prime/
> 
> The pain that came along with tuner cards was a direct result of market manipulation by the cable companies. Why would they want to approve products for the market place that would replace the boxes they were renting for $10-20/month in millions of households? That's the 1 billion dollar question.
> 
> Finally, the FCC stepped in to help a little: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/14/the-fcc-changes-the-cablecard-rules-but-not-dramatically/


Sweet, any idea the anticipated release date? 

Any other solutions that are cheaper and supports both xp and 7?

Windows 7 upgrade tool said my Gateway 901x is not upgradable, and I really like the look of my xp htpc even if its not currently used as a htpc.. (matx and agp pci only)










Just two tuners is fine


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## StereoClarity

^Sick looking box!


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## eugovector

XP support is almost nil, AFAIK. This goes to CableLabs requirements: got to love it when industries are left to regulate themselves.

Keeping in mind that I'm cable free for over a decade, so the only experience I have with CableCard and Live TV Playback in general is helping my dad and uncle get their HTPCs up and running, Win 7 support shouldn't be an issue, and more products are coming out soon.

4 tuners for $300 today: http://www.amazon.com/Ceton-Infinitv4-Digital-Cable-Quad-tuner/dp/B003B4VLJQ

3 tuner HD homerun for $250 coming soon.

There are a number of old ATI tuners available 2nd hand for under $100, but if you were serious about going down this road, I'd probably go with newer tech.

Whether this signals the beginning of widespread adoption, or the end of cablecard demand, really relies on future streaming options, in my opinion. ESPN 3 is really revolutionary, in my opinion, and an excellent example of the type of stream service that could render Cable TV inconsequential. Video resolution aside (though it is more than passable), the ESPN 3 experience is better than TV. Custom picture in picture, stats, rebroadcast on demand...this is truly the future of TV sports.

I work at a college, so I see new generations every day. Not one of them is watching "TV". Most don't own a TV. But they all watch far more video than I did when I was their age. If my generation is moving away from traditional broadcast models, the next will shun them all together.


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## vann_d

I remember a build thread in here somewhere...


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## eugovector

Fair enough, this thread has been properly hijacked. I'll leave it to Stereo Clarity, would you like the non-build discussion moved to a separate thread?


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## TypeA

vann_d said:


> I remember a build thread in here somewhere...


Call me old school, but I still consider a tuner to be at the heart of any ultimate HTPC. Just as throwing away your cd player, dvd player, and blu ray player is an amazing benefit to building a htpc, throwing away your _DVR_ is every bit as significant. Sorry if the discussion skewed to the practicality of omitting tuners and cutting the cord on your DVR in todays "ultimate" htpc. Theres more to ultimate than onboard amplifiers and disposing of your receiver, though that is a very cool feature in this build. Since Ive gotten involved in this thread we also discussed SSD (another stellar feature in this build) and the availability of online media besides the big providers, sorry if you felt some or none of it was worth it.


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## eugovector

As yet another aside...

Yeah, I remember doing my HTPC build video and catching a lot of grief about calling it such because I put it in a full tower case instead of an expensive AV component style case and didn't include a tuner. But, that PC's main purpose was to send audio and video to a 50" screen and a surround sound system. What else would you call it? I didn't play grok spreadsheets, I played HD movies. 

Purpose has always differentiated work rigs from gaming rigs from portable rigs. I don't see HTPCs being any different, hardware aside. Me wearing a football helmet doesn't make me a football player.


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## vann_d

TypeA said:


> sorry if you felt some or none of it was worth it.


Not my thread and I'm not judging the merits of your opinions. Just thought somebody ought to mention that the subject of the thread was a members build and not a debate about the viability of doing so. The thread kinda got hijacked by a side discussion without participation from the OP.


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## Kalatu

I am not computer savvy. Popcorn Hour C-200 works well for me in my Home Theater. But hey, saw pictures of your HTPC & I hope it plays as well as it looks because my future HTPC may look something like the picture you posted!


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## chrapladm

I have been wanting to ask you how does one setup having only the operating system and programs only on the SSD drives?

I have never had a multiple hard drive computer. I am getting ready to build one so it might all be self explanatory when I do build my HTPC, but I figured I would ask for now.


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## eugovector

chrapladm said:


> I have been wanting to ask you how does one setup having only the operating system and programs only on the SSD drives?
> 
> I have never had a multiple hard drive computer. I am getting ready to build one so it might all be self explanatory when I do build my HTPC, but I figured I would ask for now.


The foolproof way is to install only the SSD to begin with. This way, it will default to the system C drive. Install windows or whatever OS you will use. Then install you big media drive. You can call it D or Q or whatever.

When you install a program, it will ask you where you want to install it. If your SSD is small, 32gb or so, you'll want to install only small and speed sensitive programs to it, otherwise, you will run out of space quickly.

Anything else gets installed to your media drive.


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## StereoClarity

eugovector said:


> Fair enough, this thread has been properly hijacked. I'll leave it to Stereo Clarity, would you like the non-build discussion moved to a separate thread?


I would prefer that we keep this as a build thread but I'm thinking the discussion has been good and should be kept (as in not deleted). Maybe we can move those relevant posts to another thread titled, "HTPC vs Modern Players" or something? The discussion of whether or not someone NEEDS a HTPC is something I think a lot of people debate when purchasing and it would be useful to them. 


Kalatu said:


> I am not computer savvy. Popcorn Hour C-200 works well for me in my Home Theater. But hey, saw pictures of your HTPC & I hope it plays as well as it looks because my future HTPC may look something like the picture you posted!


It's a dream come true! Now if that 8 channel DAC comes down the pipe I'll be able to finish it 





chrapladm said:


> I have been wanting to ask you how does one setup having only the operating system and programs only on the SSD drives?
> 
> I have never had a multiple hard drive computer. I am getting ready to build one so it might all be self explanatory when I do build my HTPC, but I figured I would ask for now.





eugovector said:


> The foolproof way is to install only the SSD to begin with. This way, it will default to the system C drive. Install windows or whatever OS you will use. Then install you big media drive. You can call it D or Q or whatever.
> 
> When you install a program, it will ask you where you want to install it. If your SSD is small, 32gb or so, you'll want to install only small and speed sensitive programs to it, otherwise, you will run out of space quickly.
> 
> Anything else gets installed to your media drive.


What Marshall said will work fine and may be the least confusing. It does take a little more time since you'll have to open the case up again and put the media drive in later though.

I have a different method that has worked well for me. When you're installing windows and you have more than one drive connected, Windows will ask you which drive you would like to install the OS on. Simply click your SSD from the list and then hit next. The media drive will not be touched. 

If you do it this way, Windows will always install programs and such onto that drive and you wont have to worry. Your media drive will simply look like an additional drive like a flash drive or an external one connected via USB. 

Here is where the real magic is...this is the good stuff 

So Windows always gives you some default "libraries" for things like, Documents, Pictures, Music, and Videos. All of these locations default to locations on the drive that the OS is installed on. YOU CAN CHANGE THIS! What I've done is created four folders on my Hitachi 2TB media drive. These folders are named (you guessed it) Documents, Pictures, Music, Videos. Then I had the "libraries" point to the 4 folders located on the Hitachi. That way they are easily accessible from the sidebar but they are located on the other drive. 

The process is actually quite simple. Open up one of the libraries; let's use Documents. Near the top (in blue) it should say something like, "Includes: 2 Locations". Click on the blue part and it will open up a window. In that window you'll be able to choose what folders are included. I removed everything that was in there as a default and added the destinations on the Hitachi that I wanted. 


And while we're on this topic...

Yesterday I finally took the time to install the new PCI SSD that OCZ mailed me as a replacement. Install went well and this one runs without so much as a hiccup. The first one I had ran a 'chkdisk' almost the first time I rebooted. This one seems to be significantly more stable. After I installed the new drive I just did what I stated in the previous paragraphs. I pointed the "Libraries" to the Hitachi (took me about 2 minutes) and then installed the programs I needed on the SSD. I was up and running again in no time


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## eugovector

I can keep all the posts and just move them to a separate thread, so nothing will be deleted. I'll try to get a little work in on this later when I have more time, and I'll include a link to the new thread in this thread.


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## StereoClarity

eugovector said:


> I can keep all the posts and just move them to a separate thread, so nothing will be deleted. I'll try to get a little work in on this later when I have more time, and I'll include a link to the new thread in this thread.


Perfect!


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## eugovector

Majority of off-topic post cleaning done, new thread here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-vs-networked-blu-ray-vs-media-streamers.html

Please let me know if you have suggestions.


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## chrapladm

What size SSD do you have for your OS?

I was looking at the OCZ Agility 60gb and wondered if that would be enough for my OS and apps. I dont know if I can squeeze out getting the 120gb because thats makes me have to wait even longer for my htpc. BUT that being said if I really need something bigger than 60GB SSD I will just have to wait.


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## RTS100x5

Try FOOBAR 2000 !!! The sound quality is much improved if you set it up correctly


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## zenazeo

Hello StereoClarity

Would you mind sharing an update on your system? How many continuous hours have been general use? Does the unit require maximum ventaliation? How hot does it run?

Would you be willing to share more details about how you added the amplifiers?

I am interested in building something similar.

Thank you

Zena


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## ironglen

zenazeo said:


> Hello StereoClarity
> 
> Would you mind sharing an update on your system? How many continuous hours have been general use? Does the unit require maximum ventaliation? How hot does it run?
> 
> Would you be willing to share more details about how you added the amplifiers?
> 
> I am interested in building something similar.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Zena


I plan to mount a 4 ch x100w Sure amp along with the Sure power supply from Parts express inside my old PC, add an old monitor and mouse and enjoy my music in my garage where I tinker and exercise. I picked up an Asus Xonar DG sound card and it has an adjustable sub out so I can run it 2.1 by simply connecting them with the cables supplied by Sure. I'll drive a pair of bookshelves along with a small sub using 3 ch (1 ch unused). Nothing like this HTPC, but good enough for music on a budget.


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## StereoClarity

RTS100x5 said:


> Try FOOBAR 2000 !!! The sound quality is much improved if you set it up correctly


I'll give it a shot. That's been on my list of things to try. I've also been told that J River (or something like that) was also quite good. I'll do testing on all of these as time allows.


chrapladm said:


> What size SSD do you have for your OS?
> 
> I was looking at the OCZ Agility 60gb and wondered if that would be enough for my OS and apps. I dont know if I can squeeze out getting the 120gb because thats makes me have to wait even longer for my htpc. BUT that being said if I really need something bigger than 60GB SSD I will just have to wait.


Mine is the 80GB PCIe SSD. Very fast and has proven to work well once setup correctly. I originally went this route so I didn't take up valuable drive bays for storage. Since that time I've realized I could use any SSD and just stick it wherever I wanted in the case. Live and learn I guess. If I need the PCI slot for something else it might get the boot.


zenazeo said:


> Hello StereoClarity
> 
> Would you mind sharing an update on your system? How many continuous hours have been general use? Does the unit require maximum ventaliation? How hot does it run?
> 
> Would you be willing to share more details about how you added the amplifiers?
> 
> I am interested in building something similar.
> 
> Thank you
> 
> Zena


I've been running the system for over a year now. The ICEpower amp I posted above is now installed as of last week! I'll write a full post on it later today. Ventilation requirements are minimal. I run the fans on LOW and the case doesn't even get warm. I can jam out for hours and then open the case (still running) and touch the heat sinks on the amp without issue. 



ironglen said:


> I plan to mount a 4 ch x100w Sure amp along with the Sure power supply from Parts express inside my old PC, add an old monitor and mouse and enjoy my music in my garage where I tinker and exercise. I picked up an Asus Xonar DG sound card and it has an adjustable sub out so I can run it 2.1 by simply connecting them with the cables supplied by Sure. I'll drive a pair of bookshelves along with a small sub using 3 ch (1 ch unused). Nothing like this HTPC, but good enough for music on a budget.


I looked at the Sure amp boards but I decided it wasn't for me. The power ratings are decent but THD rises sharply when you get anywhere near those power levels. They do make things quite simple though. That's what was so appealing about them. Price is right too!


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## StereoClarity

Alright, here's the run down. Everything went exactly as I planned...which is something that I don't know has ever happened.

Soldering to the sound card was a proper pain in the rear but I was able to get it done. The wires are shielded in pairs and then there is a shield around the entire run. I'm running 7 channels to the amp and I'm running a pre-out for a powered subwoofer for true 7.1 capabilities.

The sound card I'm running is the Asus Xonar and it came with some decent software. I had to go into the bios to turn off the onboard sound completely and disable it in windows too. Now I just have a little utility that sits at the bottom right (near the clock) that I just click to fire up 7.1 or switch to HiFi which is two channel stereo and turns off all DSP...sick. The utility also allows me to level match all the channels too. I also have LFE crossover settings. I thought I remembered seeing time delay settings too but don't quote me on that. Basically, I lucked out getting a decent performing card with great software too!

I haven't done too much testing yet but I lit up Apocolypto for the intro scene when they're hunting the taper in the forest. I've never heard surround sound this convincing before. I'm going to fire up some crazy like The Matrix and Transformers later on. 

Below are some pictures of the setup installed. The last two pictures are of the rear and show how simple the wiring setup really is. Those are the ONLY wires in my entire home theater setup.


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## zenazeo

Wow, impressive. Thank you for sharing.

I have an older HP m8120n that I've been rebuilding for the moment and decided on the SimpliFi amp as a quick solution. I have my old 5.1 speaker system hooked to the amp and they never sounded so good (on Volume level 1). Last year I added an Asus GeoForce GT430, a 500W PSU, Bluray DVD capable of 3-D. The video card has HDMI 1.4a with sound return connected to the HDTV.

I can use the HDTV to act as media player or as a monitor. I'm having issues with the TV tuner but that's not for this thread. I have temporary solutions for that in place. 

From this current position, I decided that my next replacement should be the speakers.

You have proven something I have always said could be done and have done a beautiful job.

Thank you for sharing!

Zena


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## Tony_Montana

do you use any kind of EQ or Room Correction?


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## StereoClarity

Tony_Montana said:


> do you use any kind of EQ or Room Correction?


I do have EQ at my disposal but I am not using it currently. The only thing I'd need to alter would be the sub 100hz frequencies and I can do that from the plate amps that are running the SDX10's on the back of the line array towers. Still fine tuning everything. 

I'm also hoping to clean up the wiring inside the case to tidy things up a bit.


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