# Need help with my Denon AVR-1912!!!



## dirtyharry (Apr 23, 2012)

Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and am hoping you can help me. If I should be posting this somewhere else, please let me know. I have a Denon 1912 that I have been using with no problems for the past month and half with my Samsung 7000 series LCD TV. All of a sudden yesterday, when I turned it on to watch TV, there were these transparent blue boxes covering the TV screen. I could see the TV show playing behind it so I know the signal is going through. I checked the Blu-Ray player, and then same thing. When I tried my computer (hooked up to the same TV, but not through the receiver), they were not there. I tried swapping the HDMI cables. I tried a different input on the TV. I unplugged the receiver for a little while and tried again. I tried the "reset" per the manual. I called Denon support, and they told me to try the same stuff that I already did. Then they told me I would have to exchange it, or send it in for service. It is driving me crazy, cause it worked before iwht no issues. I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

dirtyharry said:


> Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and am hoping you can help me. If I should be posting this somewhere else, please let me know. I have a Denon 1912 that I have been using with no problems for the past month and half with my Samsung 7000 series LCD TV. All of a sudden yesterday, when I turned it on to watch TV, there were these transparent blue boxes covering the TV screen. I could see the TV show playing behind it so I know the signal is going through. I checked the Blu-Ray player, and then same thing. When I tried my computer (hooked up to the same TV, but not through the receiver), they were not there. I tried swapping the HDMI cables. I tried a different input on the TV. I unplugged the receiver for a little while and tried again. I tried the "reset" per the manual. I called Denon support, and they told me to try the same stuff that I already did. Then they told me I would have to exchange it, or send it in for service. It is driving me crazy, cause it worked before iwht no issues. I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance.


Hello,
It is a shame the 1912 does not have Component Video Switching as it would have offered a workaround for now.
This is something I have never encountered before. If possible, Pictures really might help. Just to make sure, have you tried setting HDMI to Passthrough? Also, in the mean time, you could run Composite Video. Not HD and not ideal, but you would be able to have Video Switching.

If you have not done this already, I would disconnect all Sources but the Monitor Out and a single HDMI Input.
It might also be worth trying different HDMI Inputs on the Denon if you have not done that too.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi and welcome to the Shack!

Given all you have already tried it does seem like something is wrong with the Denon. You have tried every usual test to troubleshoot so an exchange seems in order if its under warrentee.


----------



## dirtyharry (Apr 23, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> It is a shame the 1912 does not have Component Video Switching as it would have offered a workaround for now.
> This is something I have never encountered before. If possible, Pictures really might help. Just to make sure, have you tried setting HDMI to Passthrough? Also, in the mean time, you could run Composite Video. Not HD and not ideal, but you would be able to have Video Switching.
> 
> ...


Thanks, I'll try disconnecting everything and start from scratch. Is is possible that a cable could be bad? I am new to the whole home theater deal, and am not 100% how everything affects one another.


----------



## dirtyharry (Apr 23, 2012)

That's what I am afraid of tony. I really don't want to have to disconnect and reconnect everything.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

That blue image looks like something is wrong with the on screen menu display of the Denon.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Yep that looks to be clearly defective. And while an HDMI Cable can certainly go bad, it would nor cause something like that. I would do an Authorized Service Center search on Denon's Website so you do not have to ship it to NJ. Unless, of course you live fairly close or in NJ. Truly a shame that the Microprocessor Reset did not do the trick. By the way, did the AVR have plenty of ventilation? 
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## dirtyharry (Apr 23, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Yep that looks to be clearly defective. And while an HDMI Cable can certainly go bad, it would nor cause something like that. I would do an Authorized Service Center search on Denon's Website so you do not have to ship it to NJ. Unless, of course you live fairly close or in NJ. Truly a shame that the Microprocessor Reset did not do the trick. By the way, did the AVR have plenty of ventilation?
> Cheers,
> JJ


I thought I had enough. I will be honest though, I had my blu ray player on top of it. Also, everything was inside of a closet (pic attached). When I would watch a movie or something, I would leave the door open to allow the heat to escape. Although, I would keep an eye on the temp in the closet, and it never got excessively warm. I think the most i ever saw it was 20 degrees warmer than the house, but that is when I left the door closed just to see how warm it would get inside. All that was when I first got it over a month ago. I had also added a vent above the door right before I installed the denon. I am wondering if I should keep the blu ray on another shelf, and maybe add "positive" ventilation like an exhaust fan or something. I could also maybe run a vent from the basement, and have it blow over top of the receiver as well. Any other ideas for venting, or where I could get a quiet fan that would do the trick?


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I definitely would not mention this to Denon. In the future, definitely give your AVR as much clearance and airflow as possible. Whatever you do, do not stack anything on top of it. Heat well could have been the culprit for what I am guessing to be a broken HDMI Board.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## dirtyharry (Apr 23, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I definitely would not mention this to Denon. In the future, definitely give your AVR as much clearance and airflow as possible. Whatever you do, do not stack anything on top of it. Heat well could have been the culprit for what I am guessing to be a broken HDMI Board.
> Cheers,
> JJ


No, I certainly won't mention it. However, I thought These had a thermal overload protection in case they got too hot? Based on the pic in my last post, do you think that I would be OK to leave it set up like that? That pic does not show that blu ray player on top of it. I would then put the blue ray on another shelf. Lastly, is there a rule of thumb as to how cool I should target to keep the closet? I know some people may say keep it as cool as you can, but i'm looking for a number. If i start adding fans and such, I would like to know what I am shooting for.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The airspace around the receiver should be kept below 85F if possible. Heat is the number one killer of electronics. Fans can help but if all your doing is moving the hot air around thats not going to make much difference. A shelf with holes in it is also great so air can move through the bottom of the receiver as well.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The thing with Entry Level AVR's like the 1912 is to keep up with all of the features, the Amplifier Stage is not as robust. That is things like Heat Sinks which help to dissipate heat are not as large. In addition to smaller Power Transformers and Capacitors. 

All this being said, the Closet should be ok provided the AVR has plenty of clearance. A Fan inside the Closet would not be a bad idea as well.
J


----------



## acesxthree (May 2, 2012)

I just experienced the exact same thing with my Denon AVR 1912. Blue screen on TV regardless of source selected. Tech support claims they have never heard of this problem, but had me do a number of resets and power down procedures to renew the HDMI cable handshakes. No luck and now it looks like I need to disconnect everything, drive to a repair shop and wait a month or so for the repair. Wondering how your receiver was repaired or replaced and any follow up problems?
Thanks


----------



## dirtyharry (Apr 23, 2012)

acesxthree said:


> I just experienced the exact same thing with my Denon AVR 1912. Blue screen on TV regardless of source selected. Tech support claims they have never heard of this problem, but had me do a number of resets and power down procedures to renew the HDMI cable handshakes. No luck and now it looks like I need to disconnect everything, drive to a repair shop and wait a month or so for the repair. Wondering how your receiver was repaired or replaced and any follow up problems?
> Thanks


Did you have enough airflow around it. I was not able to confirm it, but do suspect it was the heat that did mine in. I did not know that I needed to keep it around 85 degrees. As for what I did to remedy the issue, I did not want to wait for repair, so I was able exchange it after some leg work. On the new one, I will be adding some computer case fans for positive venting. I found some 200mm fans that move air at 110cfm. I'm going to add two to the top vent in the closet to push air out. I also found that simply resting one on top of the denon (with it sucking air out of the reciever) keeps the temp down to an almost undetectable level when placing you hand over top of the unit. The fans are only around $20 so I think I'll use two on top of the unit for same measure. If I have the same issue again, then I'll get more involved with denon support for a warranty repair. I know this may not be the exact answer you are looking for, but hope it helps a little bit.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
This is beginning to seem a bit troubling. Models like the 1912 are almost always subcontracted out to Companies like Sherwood/Newcastle who actually are the OEM for a shocking number of Entry Level AVR's across all Brands. That being said, S/N makes a very good product on the whole. It is just at these price points, there are so many compromises that need to be made to ensure profitability. It is why it is next to impossible to find any AVR that is Made in Japan anymore. The Denon AVR-4311 is the last recently released AVR still made there and its replacement is going to be Made in China like the rest of the Denon AVR Lineup.
J


----------



## themeaty (Jun 15, 2012)

dirtyharry said:


> Hi everyone. I am new to the forum and am hoping you can help me. If I should be posting this somewhere else, please let me know. I have a Denon 1912 that I have been using with no problems for the past month and half with my Samsung 7000 series LCD TV. All of a sudden yesterday, when I turned it on to watch TV, there were these transparent blue boxes covering the TV screen. I could see the TV show playing behind it so I know the signal is going through. I checked the Blu-Ray player, and then same thing. When I tried my computer (hooked up to the same TV, but not through the receiver), they were not there. I tried swapping the HDMI cables. I tried a different input on the TV. I unplugged the receiver for a little while and tried again. I tried the "reset" per the manual. I called Denon support, and they told me to try the same stuff that I already did. Then they told me I would have to exchange it, or send it in for service. It is driving me crazy, cause it worked before iwht no issues. I hope someone can help. Thanks in advance.


Hi, I just purchased the same Denon AVR-1912 and I'm experiencing the same display problems as quoted above. Did anyone find a solution to the problem? I just opened the box, connected the receiver, and within 15 minutes the menu/display went bad--exactly as described in this forum. I've tried everything mentioned in this forum short of boxing the receiver and returning it. Thanks.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

My understanding is that this is a bad video or HDMI board within the receiver, if its under warrentee I would return it for another unit.


----------



## themeaty (Jun 15, 2012)

OK, thank you.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

If anybody tells you a new/better cable will fix this - it will not.

Please pm me or respond here if you have any question about the issue. I look forward to participating in the forums in the future! Have a great evening!


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I agree about long HDMI runs being troublesome. However, many use Monoprice HDMI's with no ill effects. That being said, I use Audioquest HDMI Cables so I do not have any real experience using ultra low price HDMI Cables.

The only reason I am using AQ's is that I got them for 80% off when Sound Advice was going OOB. At the prices I paid for them, they cost barely more than BlueJeans or higher grade Monoprice HDMI Cables and I could always turn a profit if I ever wanted to sell them.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I agree about long HDMI runs being troublesome. However, many use Monoprice HDMI's with no ill effects. That being said, I use Audioquest HDMI Cables so I do not have any real experience using ultra low price HDMI Cables.
> 
> The only reason I am using AQ's is that I got them for 80% off when Sound Advice was going OOB. At the prices I paid for them, they cost barely more than BlueJeans or higher grade Monoprice HDMI Cables and I could always turn a profit if I ever wanted to sell them.
> ...


Thanks for chiming in. Just wanted to add - both cheaper cables that I used worked fine coming from my cable box and blu-ray player straight to the TV. In fact, they still do. However, this specific issue had to have been the combination of the cheaper cables being used with this specific receiver. I added a more quality cable and it fixed it without question.

After my day of troubleshooting I searched the web for "blue boxes" with hdmi cables and found very little info. The only things I saw were 1) a guy writing about monoprice vs other hdmi cables. He specifically mentions blue boxes as a result of cheaper hdmi cables. Even after reading this article, I doubted the upgrade to the cable would fix my issue. I was wrong. 2) a review for a Marantz nr1403 where somebody had the same problem. Can't help but think a cable would have fixed it.

The biggest piece of this equation was the guy who helped me. He quickly responded (without much doubt) that he was very familiar with the issue and that he was 99% certain it was cheaper HDMI cable. He was right because the higer quality cable fixed it. 

I specifically joined to post this information hoping it would help somebody who experiences the same issue. Without this guys help I would have been shipping my unit back to Denon for no reason. I also asked local guys who work with TVs and they've never seen the issue before. Hopefully sharing here will help somebody.

Before this incident I would have said cable does not make a difference. Now I would say to spend a bit more for quality cable.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I agree about long HDMI runs being troublesome. However, many use Monoprice HDMI's with no ill effects. That being said, I use Audioquest HDMI Cables so I do not have any real experience using ultra low price HDMI Cables.
> 
> The only reason I am using AQ's is that I got them for 80% off when Sound Advice was going OOB. At the prices I paid for them, they cost barely more than BlueJeans or higher grade Monoprice HDMI Cables and I could always turn a profit if I ever wanted to sell them.
> ...


Update: The issue with the receiver may not have been the cable. The problem returned and Denon is picking up the receiver for repair. At this point, I would not recommend higher $$ cables as I don't have any issues to report (that weren't created by a receiver). All of my monoprice have worked fine for me.


----------



## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

Yeah, getting a bad cable is not out of the question but I cannot see how a bad cable could cause an onscreen problem like the one in the photo. I'd probably guess something related to the onscreen chip set or its supporting components that is defective. Despite quality controls, sometimes a bad chip or other electronic device gets past checks and winds up in a customer's hands.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> Update: The issue with the receiver may not have been the cable. The problem returned and Denon is picking up the receiver for repair. At this point, I would not recommend higher $$ cables as I don't have any issues to report (that weren't created by a receiver). All of my monoprice have worked fine for me.


Hello,
I am really sorry to read that you need to send in your AVR for repair. Hopefully, it will be a quick repair. I never recommend expensive HDMI Cables and would never be using them had I not gotten them for such a ridiculously low price.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I am really sorry to read that you need to send in your AVR for repair. Hopefully, it will be a quick repair. I never recommend expensive HDMI Cables and would never be using them had I not gotten them for such a ridiculously low price.
> Cheers,
> JJ


PS on this. I bought 2 refurbished things this year and both were broken. I will never do it again.
I was hoping the company that sold it to me would take it back and send a new refurb I had a delayed construction finish, my 2nd son was born a bit early and my grandmother was ill so opening my AV gear took the back burner. I tried to explain that i just opened the box and it didnt work and that I just opened it last weekend but the 30 day policy was gospel, regardless of my situation. I understand terms and conditions but sometimes life events make things not so simple. We're also talking stereo gear.

All I was asking for was another refurb. It's not like I was gaming anybody. Spoke with Denon today and was told I would have a call tag to return it. Nothing so far so follow up call tomorrow. I'm guessing I'll be making a lot of these because a website sold me a broken piece of gear and wouldn't help. Weeks of service and I'm sure the holiday will delay it as well. I'll also be watching Christmas movies with audio out of the flat screen. 1st world problem but disappointed that they wouldn't take responsibility. I also feel like these units aren't really tested as 2 things I bought this year refurbed were broken. Let me guess, I'm the one in a million who received a broken one....right. Some businesses have deplorable customer service.

You are right about the cable, sir!

Have a great holiday, everybody!


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Too bad you were unable to check your refurb AVR in the return window, but sometimes life happens.
At least Denon is honoring the warranty, not all refurb items carry the manufacturer's warranty.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> PS on this. I bought 2 refurbished things this year and both were broken. I will never do it again.
> I was hoping the company that sold it to me would take it back and send a new refurb I had a delayed construction finish, my 2nd son was born a bit early and my grandmother was ill so opening my AV gear took the back burner. I tried to explain that i just opened the box and it didnt work and that I just opened it last weekend but the 30 day policy was gospel, regardless of my situation. I understand terms and conditions but sometimes life events make things not so simple. We're also talking stereo gear.
> 
> All I was asking for was another refurb. It's not like I was gaming anybody. Spoke with Denon today and was told I would have a call tag to return it. Nothing so far so follow up call tomorrow. I'm guessing I'll be making a lot of these because a website sold me a broken piece of gear and wouldn't help. Weeks of service and I'm sure the holiday will delay it as well. I'll also be watching Christmas movies with audio out of the flat screen. 1st world problem but disappointed that they wouldn't take responsibility. I also feel like these units aren't really tested as 2 things I bought this year refurbed were broken. Let me guess, I'm the one in a million who received a broken one....right. Some businesses have deplorable customer service.
> ...



I take it you are talking about AC4L. I am really sorry that this has occurred. However, considering they have the lowest prices on the net, prior to AC4L carrying B-Stock Denon the warranty was only 90 days as opposed to a year thanks to them, and they offer a better return policy than Newegg and many others, while I totally understand your frustration, Best Buy would have done the same thing if past 30 days.

I have had both A-Stock and B-Stock go bad. You were just in the rare position where you did not run it through its paces in the first 30 days. Most hit the ground running when they get a new AVR. However, I just do not see the customer service as deplorable when you had a 30 day return policy. Unless you paid full retail and purchased the AVR at a local dealer than maybe they would extend the return/exchange period.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> I take it you are talking about AC4L. I am really sorry that this has occurred. However, considering they have the lowest prices on the net, prior to AC4L carrying B-Stock Denon the warranty was only 90 days as opposed to a year thanks to them, and they offer a better return policy than Newegg and many others, while I totally understand your frustration, Best Buy would have done the same thing if past 30 days.
> 
> I have had both A-Stock and B-Stock go bad. You were just in the rare position where you did not run it through its paces in the first 30 days. Most hit the ground running when they get a new AVR. However, I just do not see the customer service as deplorable when you had a 30 day return policy. Unless you paid full retail and purchased the AVR at a local dealer than maybe they would extend the return/exchange period.


I disldn't say who it was but if somebody called and told me they had a construction issue, shortly followed by a birth, shortly followed by a death in their family I would pick it up. I happen to do customer service in a highly regulated industry and we can make one time exceptions. A person selling stereo equipment certainly could if they wanted to help. Look at it from my perspective. I bought an item from their company, opened the box and it didn't work. It doesn't matter to me when I opened it. To me that is the story. If they really tested them as advertised it wouldn't have arrived broken. That same overconfident advertising is the same thing that let me work through those life events not feeling like I had to crow-bar in an AV receiver test. I'll be honest - I thought there would be no way it would arrive broken. And I would hope somebody would take a persons life situation into consideration when providing customer service.

That's all.

I also buy from places like this because I don't want to shop at Best Buy. And I'll tell you what. I bet if I did go into Best Buy and explained all of that they would replace it. Regardless, best luck to them. Same to you. And buy from them if you want to. I disagree with you very much on the return thing. Sorry!

PS - the lowest prices on the net clearly may compromise the customer service end of things. Maybe I shouldn't be shopping for the lowest prices in the net. Noted.


----------



## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

I had a refurb reciever (Marantz) show up from AC4L that was defective. Not AC4L's fault at all. I blame Marantz/Denon for shipping a unit as refurb and quality checked that clearly was defective. On mine the IR receiver on the unit did not function. Anyhow, I was able to realize this quickly and Marantz did exchange another unit at no charge. My new one works perfectly.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

vann_d said:


> I had a refurb reciever (Marantz) show up from AC4L that was defective. Not AC4L's fault at all. I blame Marantz/Denon for shipping a unit as refurb and quality checked that clearly was defective. On mine the IR receiver on the unit did not function. Anyhow, I was able to realize this quickly and Marantz did exchange another unit at no charge. My new one works perfectly.


Happy to hear you for a replacement! I hope you're digging it!

You also have to blame the resellers for allowing them to do so. Apparently this happens more often than I would think. I bought 2 refurbs this year at 2 different stores. Both were broken. Never again. I'm in the market for new set speakers and some other things. Definitely not refurb ever again.

That's the other thing about the site not helping me. If they helped I would have bought a lot more from them. Zappos (the online shoe store) accepts returns for a year. I wouldn't expect that full time from a stereo seller but a one time exception would have been deserved IMO. Customer service will make or break these sites over time. Best of luck to them!

BTW - it's just my opinion. Just ask yourself how you would feel in my shoes and how great it would have been for them to have stepped in the help! That is all! 

Good night everybody.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> I disldn't say who it was but if somebody called and told me they had a construction issue, shortly followed by a birth, shortly followed by a death in their family I would pick it up. I happen to do customer service in a highly regulated industry and we can make one time exceptions. A person selling stereo equipment certainly could if they wanted to help. Look at it from my perspective. I bought an item from their company, opened the box and it didn't work. It doesn't matter to me when I opened it. To me that is the story. If they really tested them as advertised it wouldn't have arrived broken. That same overconfident advertising is the same thing that let me work through those life events not feeling like I had to crow-bar in an AV receiver test. I'll be honest - I thought there would be no way it would arrive broken. And I would hope somebody would take a persons life situation into consideration when providing customer service.
> 
> That's all.
> 
> ...


Hello,
Unfortunately, Best Buy would almost definitely not exchange it after the 30 day window. Something similar happened with a friend and BB's 30 day return window is pretty set in stone. Now, they even require you to have a receipt.

The thing is AC4L honestly offers excellent Customer Service on the whole. Hundreds if not thousands of us here have purchased things there and stories like yours are in the distinct minority.

I know it matters not when it is you that this is happening to. Indeed you might be better served paying MSRP at a brick and mortar Denon Dealer in the future. Again, sorry that this has happened.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Unfortunately, Best Buy would almost definitely not exchange it after the 30 day window. Something similar happened with a friend and BB's 30 day return window is pretty set in stone. Now, they even require you to have a receipt.
> 
> The thing is AC4L honestly offers excellent Customer Service on the whole. Hundreds if not thousands of us here have purchased things there and stories like yours are in the distinct minority.
> ...


Still haven't said which site but I completely disagree on the customer service. I do customer service every day and theirs wasn't good in my opinion. Sorry!

Newborn + death and illness in family + them sending me a broken piece of gear= "Sorry! We'll switch your current refurb out for another refurb. Sorry for your loss." Seriously, think about it.

I feel weird talking about life events in this way but its just reality. And these things played into what, for me, was a bad and disappointing experience with a company. Again - Newborn + death and illness in family + them sending me a broken piece of gear. This really means...awww shucks. Our policy says 30 days. The guy never called me back today either. 

I'm done commenting on this here. Perhaps I'll say which site it was another day.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> Still haven't said which site but I completely disagree on the customer service. I do customer service every day and theirs wasn't good in my opinion. Sorry!
> 
> Newborn + death and illness in family + them sending me a broken piece of gear= "Sorry! We'll switch your current refurb out for another refurb. Sorry for your loss." Seriously, think about it.
> 
> ...


As AC4L is the only B-Stock Denon Dealer that has a 30 day return policy, it is simply process of elimination.
To be clear, I am not saying that what happened in your particular situation was not the definition of mitigating. All I am saying is that the scores of Members here who have purchased from AC4L have received very good Customer Service. I am truly sorry for your loss and wish to congratulate you on the newborn.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> As AC4L is the only B-Stock Denon Dealer that has a 30 day return policy, it is simply process of elimination.
> To be clear, I am not saying that what happened in your particular situation was not the definition of mitigating. All I am saying is that the scores of Members here who have purchased from AC4L have received very good Customer Service. I am truly sorry for your loss and wish to congratulate you on the newborn.


Got it. Many people hear about these sites on the forum so I thought I'd pass along my experience. The scores of users will read this and take from it what they will. My case seems like a slam dunk IMO. 

BTW - I still haven't named the site. You're sticking up for a ghost right now.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

It is not a ghost. There approximately 3 retailers that sell Denon B-Stock. Only one has a 30 day return policy. I am not sure for your reasoning for subterfuge about where you purchased it. Regardless, enough has been said and I am stepping aside from this thread, Good luck and Merry Christmas.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

I'm sure I'll be waiting for my repaired unit over the few vacation days I get. I was looking forward to watching movies with my family on my new setup. I can't wait to use my new AV receiver AFTER my vacation and I'm back to work and too busy! Thanks. 

Maybe I'm wrong here. I just disagree if you think so.


----------



## Lukbuk (Dec 16, 2012)

Man, I really wish this discussion ran its full course. I would love to hear what the issue was that was causing the transparent blue tiles/screen as I'm experiencing the exact same problem. First happened to me a few months in, after connecting the receiver to my network and controlling the receiver via my computer. I can't seem to PM the original poster to learnwhat the issue is. If anyone knows, please do share.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Lukbuk said:


> Man, I really wish this discussion ran its full course. I would love to hear what the issue was that was causing the transparent blue tiles/screen as I'm experiencing the exact same problem. First happened to me a few months in, after connecting the receiver to my network and controlling the receiver via my computer. I can't seem to PM the original poster to learnwhat the issue is. If anyone knows, please do share.


Hello! Denon said its a problem with the unit but didn't elaborate. They're sending me a label to ship it to them. I'd give then a buzz for sure. Sorry to hear you're having the same problem! I'm really hoping the new unit they send me works. I'm not sure if they send a repaired one or another refurb. I bought 2 refurb things this year and big were broken.

I would certainly never do it again. Do not buy refurbs!


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> Hello! Samsung said its a problem with the unit but didn't elaborate. They're sending me a label to ship it to them. I'd give then a buzz for sure. Sorry to hear you're having the same problem! I'm really hoping the new unit they send me works. I'm not sure if they send a repaired one or another refurb. I bought 2 refurb things this year and big were broken.
> 
> I would certainly never do it again. Do not buy refurbs!


Hello,
Hundreds if not thousands here have purchased B-Stock or refurbished AVR's. Most without any issues. Plenty of A-Stock AVR's require repairs as well. While I certainly understand how a negative experience can impact further consideration, brands like Onkyo allow you to extend the warranty to 3 years for well under $100. For folks building a HT on a tight budget, the savings offered by purchasing a B-Stock can make a tremendous difference in the quality of the HT.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Hundreds if not thousands here have purchased B-Stock or refurbished AVR's. Most without any issues. Plenty of A-Stock AVR's require repairs as well. While I certainly understand how a negative experience can impact further consideration, brands like Onkyo allow you to extend the warranty to 3 years for well under $100. For folks building a HT on a tight budget, the savings offered by purchasing a B-Stock can make a tremendous difference in the quality of the HT.
> Cheers,
> JJ


For the record, I've never bought a broken A stock item in all of my life. And I've bought plenty of electronics and music equipment. Refurb 2 buys and 2 broken. I would consider doing it with a local shop or Best Buy where I could walk in with it. I would never do it again from a website.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> For the record, I've never bought a broken A stock item in all of my life. And I've bought plenty of electronics and music equipment. Refurb 2 buys and 2 broken. I would consider doing it with a local shop or Best Buy where I could walk in with it. I would never do it again from a website.


Well many B-Stocks were A-Stocks that did arrive DOA. With both A-Stock and B-Stock the chances are pretty small that the AVR is going to fail out of the box. Regardless, I certainly understand given your experience not choosing to purchase a B-Stock in the future.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

oates said:


> Newborn + death and illness in family + them sending me a broken piece of gear= "Sorry! We'll switch your current refurb out for another refurb. Sorry for your loss." Seriously, think about it.


I have no chips on the table here, I empathize the personal loss you have experienced, I don't buy refurb gear, I have never done business with the named vendor.
From this post it appears you bought a refurb and were offered a refurb in exchange (this is a different report than was initially posted), if this is the case the vendor offered to make an even exchange which seems reasonable and appropriate to me.
While you are clearly dissatisfied, other than the unit working correctly out of the box, what would have made you happy ?
If you think replacing the refurb unit with a A stock, new in the box unit would have been appropriate, I do not agree because that is not what you paid for.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

chashint said:


> I have no chips on the table here, I empathize the personal loss you have experienced, I don't buy refurb gear, I have never done business with the named vendor.
> From this post it appears you bought a refurb and were offered a refurb in exchange (this is a different report than was initially posted), if this is the case the vendor offered to make an even exchange which seems reasonable and appropriate to me.
> While you are clearly dissatisfied, other than the unit working correctly out of the box, what would have made you happy ?
> If you think replacing the refurb unit with a A stock, new in the box unit would have been appropriate, I do not agree because that is not what you paid for.


I'm being offered a refurb from Denon, not the vendor. Denon has been amazing. I was just hoping the website would consider the circumstances and exchange it for another refurb (making my life a bit easier). When I emailed them about my circumstance they said "repairs are generally only 2-3 weeks" and never returned my actual phone call. That's a big part of this - the guy blowing off my phone call. Even the guy defending the site can't really defend that.

Waiting for a repair means I get the label today, mail it Monday. Add another week to the 2-3 week estimate. I'm sure the holiday will add yet another week. Needless to say, I'm out my sweet AVR for most likely 2 months. Like I said, from my perspective, I opened the box and it didn't work. That is absolutely what happened. I would expect any business that sold a broken item to take it back (even and especially if life events prevented a customer from opening it within the 30 days). I may even be wrong about this but I don't think so. All I wanted was another refurb unit so I didn't have to wait 2 months for a unit that I had paid for to work. With all of the stuff going on it would have been wonderful to have my unit for the time I'm spending with my family.

Sad about it but thats life. I just won't be buying anything from them in the future. I'm sure with service like that they'll lose quite a bit of business. My friends and I buy AV gear here and there and a good experience in this case would have led to a recommendation. One guy just asked last week where to buy a receiver...guess who I didn't recommend! Even if you disagree with the return, blowing off my call is pretty horrible. 
I just wanted the guy making the decision to listen to my perspective and make a decision. He never returned my call. 

I look forward to participating in other topics not related to this. Be well!


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Gotcha 
Best wishes to you and your family.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> I'm being offered a refurb from Denon, not the vendor. Denon has been amazing. I was just hoping the website would consider the circumstances and exchange it for another refurb (making my life a bit easier). When I emailed them about my circumstance they said "repairs are generally only 2-3 weeks" and never returned my actual phone call. That's a big part of this - the guy blowing off my phone call. Even the guy defending the site can't really defend that.
> 
> Waiting for a repair means I get the label today, mail it Monday. Add another week to the 2-3 week estimate. I'm sure the holiday will add yet another week. Needless to say, I'm out my sweet AVR for most likely 2 months. Like I said, from my perspective, I opened the box and it didn't work. That is absolutely what happened. I would expect any business that sold a broken item to take it back (even and especially if life events prevented a customer from opening it within the 30 days). I may even be wrong about this but I don't think so. All I wanted was another refurb unit so I didn't have to wait 2 months for a unit that I had paid for to work. With all of the stuff going on it would have been wonderful to have my unit for the time I'm spending with my family.
> 
> ...


Seriously? As the "guy" defending the site, I highly recommend that you read our rules of conduct. I usually do not post such things in public, but I have tried to show understanding to your situation. Considering I am the one who actually acknowledged the actual website you were talking about, I am somewhat flummoxed by that offhanded comment.


----------



## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I just want to know how many people headed to the dictionary for the definition of flummoxed? I did.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Oates has complied with the rules of conduct.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

In well over 7000 posts I have never quoted from our rules, but.... "We simply can not over emphasize enough the importance of any member, under any circumstances, "publicly" reproaching our staff by calling our status or our decisions into question... in any form or fashion. If you want to be banned, this is the quickest way."

Perhaps some might see the post as a grey area. However, I do not. Throughout this thread, I just do not understand how what I have written could be construed as defending AC4L. Especially as I was the one who even acknowledged the retailer being discussed and trying to show understanding to the situation as well.


----------



## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

For what it's worth I don't think you were out of line Jack. The OP was obviously frustrated by his experience and our forum is definitely pro Onkyo and IMO for good reason. You just can't make everyone happy and on occasion someone is bound to end up with a defective unit.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Fully agree, it is always a risk buying electronics from any seller. Defective units are everywhere and to put blame on one seller is not fair at all.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The thing is I never discussed Onkyo. The only thing that seemed to cause issue is that AC4L offering a 30 Day Return Policy whilst an overwhelming percentage offering the lowest prices is a rare thing.

I stated that this was the definition of a mitigating circumstance. However, Best Buy would have done nothing different. Same goes with a about everyone with the exception of Costco.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The thing is I never discussed Onkyo. The only thing that seemed to cause issue is that AC4L offering a 30 Day Return Policy whilst an overwhelming percentage offering the lowest prices is a rare thing.
> 
> I stated that this was the definition of a mitigating circumstance. However, Best Buy would have done nothing different. Same goes with a about everyone with the exception of Costco.
> ...


Apologies if I offended you - that was truly not my intent. I was trying to express that nobody could defend the behavior of the website not returning my call. Apologies if I didn't communicate that the right way.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I really think this has been a matter of misunderstanding. One for which I am decidedly culpable. I really am sympathetic to your situation and purposely disclosed the website not to defend it, but to let other members know your experience.

I am so glad Denon has swapped out your 1912. Please believe be when I say I have maybe had 2 or 3 differences of opinion like this during my entire time here.
All the best,
J


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

^^^^
Good man.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

:huh:


Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I really think this has been a matter of misunderstanding. One for which I am decidedly culpable. I really am sympathetic to your situation and purposely disclosed the website not to defend it, but to let other members know your experience.
> 
> I am so glad Denon has swapped out your 1912. Please believe be when I say I have maybe had 2 or 3 differences of opinion like this during my entire time here.
> ...


I just wanted to report back in that I'm now on my 3rd replacement of this as the 2nd has experienced an issue. I truly hope Denon can find a way to get my money back if this one doesn't work.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

oates said:


> :huh:
> 
> I just wanted to report back in that I'm now on my 3rd replacement of this as the 2nd has experienced an issue. I truly hope Denon can find a way to get my money back if this one doesn't work.


The chances of getting money back are amazingly slim. Another AVR? Most likely. What went wrong with the last one?


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

This one kicks off and the red light flashes. The manual said it is a warning for overheating. There is plenty of space around the receiver and it sometimes kicks off before it really gets running. 

The replacement is ok so far. I hear what you're saying about getting money back and it maybe not being possible. But at some point a company owes a customer for their time. In reality, based on them "testing" refurbs before they leave, I must be the luckiest cat out there. 2 that just happen to be the needles in haystacks of malfunctioning refurbs. I don't think so. Never again on a refurb. I should have just gone to Best Buy and spent half as much for a Yamaha that would have worked out if the box.

I have over 4 hours into this thing to just get a receiver that works (and I'm still not even sure I have one yet). This is between driving to reship units back and connecting and disconnecting, setting up etc.... At some point, a company should do the right thing and either a) give me my money back b) ship me a new receiver instead of a refurb.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

How much ventilation where the AVR is placed? How many inches of clearance is there above the AVR and is it placed in an enclosed AV Rack?
Unfortunately, if a refurbished AVR is purchased, it is exceedingly rare for a manufacturer to replace it with an A-Stock. Truly sorry for the issues you have experienced.


----------



## oates (Dec 11, 2012)

3rd unit the receiver resets itself on a loop with with a flashing green light. Did a system reset and made sure all connections are taught.

Does anybody have anything else I can try before I ca Denon? 

I've truly been patient with their sending of 3 units. Good customer service would be just getting my money back if I want it. With driving to drop off at fed ex, and disconnecting and setting up, I'll now have 6 hours into this thing. With a 3 month old and 4 year old at home I just don't have time for this. I'm sincerely disappointed with this whole experience and don't believe Denon has the capability to test their refurb units prior to shipping.

Every unit I've had a problem with started acting up after and hour of watching. Just turning it on once would lead you to believe it worked.


----------



## chrisexv6 (Jan 21, 2013)

oates said:


> 3rd unit the receiver resets itself on a loop with with a flashing green light. Did a system reset and made sure all connections are taught.
> 
> Does anybody have anything else I can try before I ca Denon?
> 
> ...


Sounds like you're cursed or something!

Couple things:

1. Have you tried connecting NOTHING to the unit and just turn it on to see what happens? If it goes into overload/protection/whatever while doing absolutely nothing, you've got a good case to go after Denon with.

2. Are you plugging it into the same receptacle each time? Probably just a remote possibility, but could their be something wrong with your mains wiring to that receptacle?


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Well to put my money where my mouth is (so to speak), I picked up a Denon AVR-4520CI from the retailer that shall not be named for the purposes of this thread. While only a few hours in, the unit is utterly brilliant and appears to be brand new down to having the features sticker on the faceplate. My 3008 is an A-Stock and has been perfect.

While I was honestly tortured between the 4520 and the Onkyo 5009/5010, the Preamp Only Mode, AirPlay, and also wanting to mix it up after owning 4 Onkyo AVR's in a row. I must say it was kinda fun to not go into mental autopilot while setting the 4520 up.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Wow Jack, going off the beaten path are we LOL It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Denon.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Wow Jack, going off the beaten path are we LOL It will be interesting to hear your thoughts on the Denon.


It is Sonnie's fault. After reading about him use a 4520 to drive a pair of Martin Logan Prodigies and being so pleased that he even listed his Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks, as a fellow ML owner I was intrigued.

While I am not yet brave enough to attempt the same. Or lazy as my amplifiers are all hooked up to the Speaker Cables leaving only RCA runs to the AVR. I must say it is kinda fun learning a new AVR as I have not owned a Denon since the AVR-4800.


----------



## raja.ind91 (Feb 16, 2014)

Hello Everyone, 
I am new to this forum. I would like to share with you a similar problem that has come up in my Denon 1912 since yesterday. ( blue transparent squares and rectangles on the screen). I have tried below steps:
- changed my TV
-changed HDMI cable
-Reset the microprocessor ( few times)
-disconnect all inputs and speaker connections.
The problem continues even after trying out all the above. One more observation is that the Menus and setup wizard screens are also not appearing.
I would like to know how was the problem resolved in the previous cases posted here. I Would very much appreciate your vaulable inputs.


----------

