# Not impressed



## gwilliams20 (May 4, 2010)

Aria 6 (5) Built from plans, Sony PS3 and Pioneer VSX-819H-K.

The Arias were ran in the garage with an old Onkyo stereo reciever and sounded good. I haven't put the final finish on the speakers yet. No heat in the garage. My son came to visit over the holidays and wanted to hear them, so they were moved into the house and connected to the Pioneer and Sony temporarily. The system was set up with the mic that was furnished with the receiver. 

It was as if most of the bass was gone when moved inside. These speakers had really surprising bass in the garage. I remember years ago people that had them (Aria 6) were saying that a sub woofer was not really missed. I find it hard to believe that moving them inside would affect the low end this much.

A question I have is how does the sound of the newer electronic equipment compare to the older. Is the power there? Do I just need a better amp? A pro calibration? The Pioneer and Sony sounds good with music CDs, although bass is seriously lacking. Surround sound in the movies I've watched is mostly a waste of a speaker in my set up.

I will appreciate anyone"s advice. Thanks.


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## Koopa (Aug 19, 2008)

If I'm understanding properly, you removed the speakers off the calibrated Onkyo onto an un-calibrated Sony receiver? That could be part of it. The built in calibration makes a HUGE difference on my Onkyo. 

I'm of the belief you always need a sub for a home theater. I've never heard any setup that could dig down and provide the sound of a decent sub.


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## gwilliams20 (May 4, 2010)

The Onkyo is a stereo receiver I've had for years. And the Pioneer is a 5.1 HT receiver. The Sony is a PS3. I do have two 15" Tempest 2 sub woofers I'll get started on if the weather ever warms up a bit. I agree these speakers will not go as low as a sub, but they should sound better than they do. I was just wondering if the Pioneer has the watts to do the job.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

How many watts is the Onkyo and the Yamaha? I find it strange too haveing such a dramatic change as well. It could be because of the acoustics of the 2 different environments:dontknow:. You should try the Onkyo in the house and see what your results are.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

gwilliams20 said:


> .......
> The system was set up with the mic that was furnished with the receiver.
> It was as if most of the bass was gone when moved inside.


I suspect that the Pioneer detected a standing wave during the calibration and set a filter and/or the equalizer to correct it.
The end result being it killed the bass.
If you put the AVR into pure direct mode it will bypass all the filters and the EQ, if the bass comes back check what the calibration actually did.
Good luck.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

Cant your try the Onkyo amp to rule the issue out as being this. Have you tried running the AVR in pure audio mode?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Have you run full auto on the MCACC and then checked your levels with an SPL meter?
MCACC is notorious for setting incorrect levels in each channel..


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I don't know how his interior room is treated, but more than likely has carpet and drapes.

Garages are usually bare with concrete floors. Would this help accentuate the low end?

In any case, you should get spl meter and test disc to determine how flat your speakers are playing.


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## gwilliams20 (May 4, 2010)

Good ideas, guys. During the calibration there were no tones, only white noise. High level and then low level white noise twice if I remember correctly. Would a standing wave be detected with white noise? 

I'm planning on checking things out with the Onkyo tomorrow.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Yes, the Pio uses the noise to set the whole EQ.
I have a standing wave right at 60Hz in my primary listening position if I only use this mic position the bass is highly attenuated.
My Pio AVR has the option to do a 3 listening position cal.... when I use that it sets the standing wave filter at a much more reasonable level.
I am assuming your AVR has Auto Surround, ALC, Direct, and Pure Direct selections.
The Pure Direct mode will by pass all of the signal processing.
If the bass comes back the MCAAC filtered it.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

gdstupak said:


> I don't know how his interior room is treated, but more than likely has carpet and drapes.
> 
> Garages are usually bare with concrete floors. Would this help accentuate the low end?
> 
> In any case, you should get spl meter and test disc to determine how flat your speakers are playing.


A hard room will make the speakers brighter and possible harsher. Its conceivable you would perceive this as sounding louder. In a softer room, the high end would be subdued a little and likely cleaned up a touch too. This would sound quieter and would also lead to a perception of increased bass, as bass isnt affected the same way as the high frequencies by the furnishings in the room.


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## WooferHound (Dec 8, 2010)

Are the two rooms different sizes? A small room will acoustically not support bass frequencies as well as a larger room.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I thought smaller areas accentuated bass frequencies.
That's why 1 sub in my car does as much as the 4 subs in my living room.?


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## gwilliams20 (May 4, 2010)

OK, guys, got some measurements.

Garage: 20' wide X 23' deep 8' ceiling and concrete floor.

Living room: 22' wide X 16' deep 9' ceiling and carpet on floor. 8.6' high X 11' wide drapes centered on left wall. 2' deep X 6' wide fireplace (floor to ceiling) centered on right wall. 8' high X 10' wide entrance in right rear wall and opening into 6' wide X 10' deep X 10' ceiling foyer.

The pure direct setting did help, but there is still a lot missing.

The Onkyo has 100 watts rms per channel and Pioneer only specs 80 watts, no rms or peak power or whatever designation.

I don't posses any test equipment at the moment. I also have a Mac and haven't seen any audio design or calibration software for the Mac.

Thanks again for the replies, Guys.


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## Koopa (Aug 19, 2008)

gwilliams20 said:


> OK, guys, got some measurements.
> 
> ....I don't posses any test equipment at the moment. I also have a Mac and haven't seen any audio design or calibration software for the Mac.....


I'm a mac also. I have a program on the iMac at home. The name escapes me. I'll try to get it at lunch for you. Not sure how well it works, I never played with it much.


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## WooferHound (Dec 8, 2010)

gdstupak said:


> I thought smaller areas accentuated bass frequencies.
> That's why 1 sub in my car does as much as the 4 subs in my living room.?


A larger room will support lower frequencies
A smaller room doesn't need as much power to get loud volumes


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I'm not sure what you mean that larger rooms will support lower frequencies. Playing 30hz in my car will rattle my eardrums.
I understand a 30hz freq is about 30ft long but that doesn't prevent it from being heard in a space smaller then 30ft.
So in the case of this thread, if his garage were smaller than his living room, the bass might have sounded louder in the garage.


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