# Choices for DVR's? Why keep renting from a MSO?



## videobruce (Jul 11, 2010)

It's unfortunate that the vast percentage of Americans either are too lazy since it involves some research and setup time, or just aren't aware of the fact there are other alternatives to paying a cable company month after month to 'rent' *their* DVR. All you are doing is stuffing *their* pockets with the too easy to succumb to PPV option which is the main reason why they won't tell you there are options.

1. The best, well know alternative is the TiVo;
http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-premiere/index.html

It is has the most options and flexibility. BUT, there is that constant 'fee' just to use the recorder, namely the Guide. The other issue which most aren't aware of is, you never actually 'own' the machine! You are just leasing it (for the most part). The real deal breaker (at least for me) is this never ending subscription cost ($13/mo) just to use the thing. Without the guide, you can't use the recorder;
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoservicepaymentplanstermsandconditions.html

Recordings can be off loaded to a PC which does put this in a league by itself if you can get by the subscription cost. This is for intermediate to advanced users

*The less known solutions are;*

2. The older *Sony DHG-HDD250/500 DVR's*. OTA & CATV, CC slot, dual RF inputs, TVGOS data. Other than the age, there are some issues in certain areas receiving the guide data. Most don't have a problem, but some do. This is a single tuner model which means you can only record one program at a time. This is for intermediate to advanced users. _*This is easily available through ebay!*_

There is a dedicated web site for these;
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php

3. The *CM-7000PAL* sold under the Channel Master name (formerly the DTVPal imported by Dish Network and designed in the UK). This is *OTA only* even though it has QAM (CATV) capability. It does have dual tuners. It does also use TVGOS data, but with their own software which has limitations compared to the actual TVGOS software the Sony uses. Some stations won't show TVGOS data even tough it is available in that area, but instead will show only the limited PSIP data from the local station itself that usually only goes out 12 hours instead of 8 days.

The HDD can be upgraded unlike the Sony to a 1TB version and the drives can be swapped with recording to play back at another time. 
There is a dedicated thread on this model elsewhere;
http://www.channelmasterstore.com/HD_DVR_receiver_for_antenna_p/cm-7000pal.htm
http://www.channelmaster.com/kb_results.asp

4. The *SD only Magnaxox/Funai H2160* DVR/DVD Recorder. While this is *not* HD, it offers fantastic editing capabilities from the HDD to the DVD recorder, namely commercial elimination. With external S-video and composite inputs, it will record to either the DVD recorder or the HDD recorder. It also allows substituting a much larger 1TB HDD in place of the original; 250GB drive. This does *not* have a 'guide' and relies on manual entry for a 'timer' recording (VCR style). It does allow daily and weekly repeats of programs.


5. To soon to be released PVR from *epVision PHD-eZ1* (bottom of the page);
http://epvision.com/HDTVSTB/phdez1pre.htm

Details are sketchy, but I'm told it will have OTA & QAM capability, an external HDD (uses installed). This manufacture has a series of HD tuner STB's and now plans to import this addition. It has been delayed somewhat, but hopefully with some more input from others, it will come to market soon. Note, you can add your name to their list and I would ask you to do so to reflect the potential interest in this. I believe it does have potential.

See the following post for additional information.


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## videobruce (Jul 11, 2010)

The following was what I received from the importer;


> Hi Bruce,
> 
> Thanks for the email. For your answer, PHD-eZ1 does have OTA and CATV recording features. Not like some PVRs can be only limited to OTA. We may end up to build full feature PVR instead of eZ1, reason is the cost is very close. We can add additional component and cvbs inputs and encoding but it will cost much more. Output so far is limited to HDMI and CVBS outputs just like PHD-8VX but we may change it the last min. based on the demand and cost.
> 
> ...


And my reply;


> Allen,
> 
> Thanks for the reply. I was just interested in the DVR. As I stated, the most important features that are lacking are;
> 1. A second RF input (one for CATV, one for OTA),
> ...


This was his response from my follow up e-mail;


> Hi Bruce,
> Thanks again for the email. To quickly answer your questions:
> (1) Yes, it is both OTA and CATV.
> (2) Are considering now. Two separate tuners will add up cost, which is the main concern. Technical-wise, it is no problem.
> ...


I has a recent phone conversation with "Allen" from epVision centerned around these points;

1. The initial unit will _*not*_ have a CC slot. He didn't think the 2nd would have one either. I stressed this was a mistake. The licenses fees were the reason.

2. I stressed the availability of decent Guide data, not just PSIP. The initial release will only have PSIP with future version via a firmware upgrade able to use the Ethernet port for full data with a yearly subscription cost around $25 as I already stated. I believe it is only the firmware that would be holding this upgrade back, not hardware. (And of course the 3rd party source)

3. The external HDD will be via a USB2 port only. I thought a eSATA port would be a nice addition. The files will be unplayable in Windows, but I believe they will be able to be transfered to another drive. (This is unclear, since I'm not familiar with Linux.)

4. Formatting the HDD will be the users responsibility. The plan was to provide instructions to the user using resources via the Internet. I strongly suggested the procedure be accomplished via internal firmware, _*not*_ via using a separate PC whereas you simply connected the HDD and via a user menu format the drive attached to the DVR. I also feel, this would hamper sales if they do it the way they planned. Joe Sixpack isn't going to obtain some software, burn it to a bootable CD and format the drive _*outside*_ of Windows for the Linux format. (I'm _assuming_ this would be the procedure)

5. _*This has a target price of $250.*_ I again brought up the lack of a CC slot (since this will have QAM capabilities). He is aware of Comcast switching to digital only. I also brought up with some systems, almost everything is encrypted.

6. It will also have a analog tuner, but no encoder so _*it won't be able to record analog CATV channels.*_ He mentioned a future model that may, but I brought up the fact analog CATV systems are slowly disappearing and the longer they would wait, the less it would be a benefit. It seems to be a waste to even have this.

7. I suggested for the 2nd version that _*should*_ have a CC slot (and some additional features) a price between $300 & $350.

8. I don't like this "plastic box" similar to what that DTVPal uses. At these price points, there is no reason it couldn't/shouldn't be in a metal enclosure just as their 'tuners' have been.

9. Dual RF inputs were stressed, but this was in a follow up e-mail. I didn't bring up this point and I don't know if it is planned.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

videobruce said:


> It's unfortunate that the vast percentage of Americans either are too lazy since it involves some research and setup time, or just aren't aware of the fact there are other alternatives to paying a cable company month after month to 'rent' *their* DVR. All you are doing is stuffing *their* pockets with the too easy to succumb to PPV option which is the main reason why they won't tell you there are options.


Out of all the options you list, the cable company's DVR seems to be the best pick.
So are you going to list more options that are better than that?


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

1. Tivo - working DVR
2. Not available anywhere
3. OTA only and the link is to the Sony thread at avs
4. Non HD
5. A product that is to be shipped in 2010 but has yet to ship

It seems to me that there really is only one option of the 5 you listed, and that's the Tivo. :huh:


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## videobruce (Jul 11, 2010)

> Out of all the options you list, the cable company's DVR seems to be the best pick.


Best for what? Stuffing their pockets? :foottap: Not a chance. Principles, something that most Americans don't seem to have.


> So are you going to list more options that are better than that?


That's all I know of that isn't PC related. Since you don't seem to like the list, go ahead and add more if there are any I don't know of.


> 2. Not available anywhere


_*Want to bet?*_ Since you are familiar with the unit, why would you state it isn't available anywhere when it is??


> 3. OTA only and the link is to the Sony thread at avs


Whats' wrong with OTA only? It's free! (new concept).


> 4. Non HD


As stated. To some, that isn't a issue. The thread title was "DVR's", _*not*_ HD DVR's. The editing capabilities are in a league by themselves without the hassle of a PC. A all in one tuner/HDD/DVD recorder. Yes, it would of been nice if it was a HD tuner & DVR, but for the price, it isn't bad.

Unfortunately this forum has no "DVR" section, which is why I placed this here.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

videobruce said:


> Best for what? Stuffing their pockets? :foottap: Not a chance. Principles, something that most Americans don't seem to have.


Obviously you think there is a problem with the cable company (what's the difference between paying a cable company or paying TIVO?). Do you care to expound a bit?
In my opinion, my local cable company offers very good service for a very competitive price.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

videobruce said:


> _*Want to bet?*_ Since you are familiar with the unit, why would you state it isn't available anywhere when it is??


Because I googled it and I checked eBay and found nothing. :huh: Where exactly did I state I was familiar with it? And where is it available to our membership to purchase?



videobruce said:


> Unfortunately this forum has no "DVR" section, which is why I placed this here.


I have no problem with it being placed in this forum. But let's keep the tone in check. :T


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Let's compare (obviously this is my experience but probably in the same boat as many others):

1. Cable DVR vs. TIVO 
Cable HD DVR ...... $16/month, no upstart fee
TIVO ................ $20/month, plus cost of box
WINNER .............. Cable DVR. I understand TIVO has many great features, but I don't want to pay for them.

2. Cable vs. Sony
Cable ...... everything works properly,, 2 tuners
Sony ....... "most don't have a problem, but some do" ,, 1 tuner
WINNER ..... Cable

3. Cable vs. CM
Cable ...... more than 30HD channels, more than 100SD channels
CM ......... 2HD OTA channels may be available in my area
WINNER ... Cable

4. Cable vs. Magnavox
Cable............ HD
Magnavox ..... not HD
WINNER ......... Cable


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## videobruce (Jul 11, 2010)

> Obviously you think there is a problem with the cable company (what's the difference between paying a cable company or paying TIVO?).


Not a whole lot which is why I don't have either. Though with a TiVo, you 'sort of' own it, with a DVR from a MSO, you only rent it.


> In my opinion, my local cable company offers very good service for a very competitive price.


Wow! You are the 1st to praise a MSO. :gulp: Either you have a vested interest in them or are one of the few that never had any problems. I can say I never came across this before in the hundreds of posts/threads regarding CATV providers I have seen.


> I checked eBay and found nothing.


There has been a 250 up for auction closing in two days as I type this. There is also Craig's List, though it is a bear to search every major market to find anything.


> Where exactly did I state I was familiar with it?


Your correction to my link for SpiffSpace.


> Let's compare (obviously this is my experience but probably in the same boat as many others):


_*That wasn't the purpose of the thread.*_ Only to inform since the vast majority of Americans have no clue what is available to them other than renting from satellite or cable TV as I already stated. Most don't even know anything about OTA.


> 1. Cable DVR vs. TIVO
> Cable HD DVR ...... $16/month, no upstart fee
> TIVO ................ $20/month, plus cost of box


 TiVo is $13 a/month or less if you buy a longer subscription. You also forgot to mention the CC option option for the Sony at around $3. month which is over a $150 a year savings.


> 2HD OTA channels may be available in my area


You choose to live in a isolated area where you are. The vast majority have 3-6 times that available.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

I edited a link that was supposed to be for information on the CM-7000PAL. It went to a Sony DHG-HDD250/500 DVR thread at avs. :scratch:


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