# Newbie Questions for Home Theater System with $500-600 Budget



## HelenK (Dec 8, 2009)

Hello!

My BF is moving into a new apt and I wanted to get him a home theater system for Christmas. But, after reading some of the other threads I came to the realization that my budget of $500-600 would not be enough for a system that would be both great in quality and that would actually last few years. I WAS going to buy a HTiB, but thanks to this site I have been saved from the doom and gloom of purchasing a substandard system as a starter.

I don't know the square footage or the actual size of the room. But, I do know he is moving into a 1 bedroom apt and the system will be used in the living room. He is a gamer and we are both really into movies so would like to definitely enhance our movie watchign experience at home. 

I REALLY want to get him a nice theater system, but my budget is pretty tight. So, I believe I only have a few options:

1. Buy him a nice receiver for christmas and then we can add the speakers later? (I was looking at the Onkyo ones, but I don't really know the difference amongst all the models)
2. Buy him the speakers and then the receiver?
3. Buy him an average receiver and maybe 2 speakers and he can add on later?

I don't really want to just get him a receiver or just speakers because it feels so incomplete... However, if that is the only way to work within my budget for what I want then I am all for it. I just want to get him a nice theater system or basically start him off with something really nice that he can add on to.

If anyone can give me ANY advice on how to tackle this problem, that would be great! 

FYI - He already has a Samsung LCD hdtv and PS3.

Question: I heard that for Samsung TVs it is easier to just get the Samsung theater systems so they integrate better... how true is this??
Question: Are wireless rear speakers generally more expensive than the "regular" ones and do they generally cause more problems?


Thank you for taking time to read this! I feel like I'm all over the place, but I really have absolutely no idea on this subject, let alone anything about electronics... haha


All the Best,


Helen


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

Helen, first off, welcome to the Shack!

As far as getting Samsung to match the Samsung LCD, that's not really true. Sure they will work together, but mixing and matching components can provide greater results.

While HTiB set ups are not the most idea, one company that I can recommend for HTiB set ups is Onkyo. Other than that, most of them are still only subpar. 

I also would not really recommend getting wireless speakers because they just aren't that great, especially for home theater application (at least yet).

I think your idea of buying a receiver for Christmas is a good plan and then upgrading slowly as you go. The nice thing is if you buy one component at a time, you know how it affects the system, whereas if you buy everything all together then you have little to no clue what you would need to upgrade next. Plus, this way you give yourself a lot more flexibility since most Home Theater in a Box set ups are made to only really work with their own components, so switching things out becomes a lot more difficult.

I would suggest the receiver first because without the receiver, the speakers won't be able to be used. Also, get him a good receiver first, then as money allows buy the speakers. Even just buying two speakers (good quality) speakers later and slowly building upon that would be good, too.

If I were to prioritize things this is how I would do it:

1. Receiver
2. Front 2 Speakers
3. Subwoofer
4. Center Channel
5. Surround speakers
6. Possibly additional surround speakers for 7.1 (or higher) setup.

Hope this helps!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Helen, welcome to HomeTheaterShack. Your BF is a lucky man indeed.
I am so glad to see that you want to approach this as a quality over quantity proposition.

With 600 Dollars, I would start off with a receiver and a pair of quality speakers and Center Channel.
For speakers:http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm
So that would be 149 for a pair of SBS-01 Speakers and 119 for the SCS-01 Center Channel.

For the receiver:http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...r607-7.2-channel-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html
This Onkyo retails for 600 Dollars costs 339 and is fully up to date and will utterly trounce a HTIB.

So for 607 Dollars without shipping, you would have a quality receiver and 3 excellent speakers.
When your budget allows, simply add the surrounds and subwoofer and you will have a complete HT.

I know a subwoofer is of high importance to you, but a quality one will take up far too much of your budget. The Center Channel is positively huge in the items of importance in a HT.
Cheers,
JJ


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## HelenK (Dec 8, 2009)

Thank you!! That helped a lot!

Do you have any recommendations on receivers for around $500?

I assume it would be Onkyo, but I could be wrong. I would want to choose the best receiver within my budget.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Helen,
If you were going to spend around 500 Dollars just for the receiver, this would be my choice: http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...ra2-130w-X-7ch-Hdmi-806-Receiver-Black/1.html

Originally retailed for 1100 Dollars and offers THX Certification and much, much more.
Cheers,
JJ


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## HelenK (Dec 8, 2009)

Wow!

Thanks JJ!! I think you just gave me my Christmas list right there! That was easy... I think my BF and his friends will be impressed by my choices. =)

Thank you again!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Helen, glad to be of help. If there are any other questions you have, please do not hesitate to ask.
The products recommended are truly of very high quality and tremendous value. If you wish to peruse reviews, there are links for Professional Reviews of the SVS Speakers on their website. For the Onkyo's, check out Ecoustics.com.
Ecoustics offers links for Professional Reviews of all manner of electronics. You can simply enter in the model name in the search box and it will provide links for 
reviews. 

I will finally point out that SVS is offering a package deal with a truly awesome subwoofer for 799:http://www.svsound.com/products-sys-sbs_black.cfm
I realize this coupled with a receiver would be way out of your initial budget, but the package saves you almost 100 Dollars. All you would need are Speaker Stands, HDMI cables, one RCA Cable for the subwoofer and Speaker Cable and you would have a complete system. A truly excellent one that would outperform systems costing multiples of this systems asking price.
Cheers,
JJ


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## HelenK (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks again! The links are great resources!

I do have a somewhat "technical" question and please forgive me if it's a stupid question - haha.

While reading the review on the Onky TX-SR806, I came across this: "The 806 is NOT capable of unaltered HDMI repeating!" In the comment section of that review, the author simplifies what that meant ("It means that even when set to “pass through”, the 806 does not give you a bit-for-bit copy OUT of whatever you put IN."), but I wanted some more detailed explanation.

I was curious to know if this affects the quality when watching blu-ray via PS3. Is this a general setback for blu-ray players? or does this have to do with the receivers....?

Am I even asking the right question? lol


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Welcome to the forum :T

I know is not a great idea (specially to give as a present) but you can also look at used speakers :innocent:

Buy him the AVR, then look for great deals on speakers ( I bought some myself) ... you can also take a look for open box deals at BB or any other electronic store :bigsmile:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

HelenK said:


> Thanks again! The links are great resources!
> 
> I do have a somewhat "technical" question and please forgive me if it's a stupid question - haha.
> 
> ...


Hello,
I believe this is in reference to the Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity test of the TX-SR806.
And according to the review, it does alter the signal. However, from everything I have read it is not to a point where it really negatively affects your picture. 
Here is another review of the 806:http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/onkyo_tx-sr806_av_receiver/ There is no mention of the passthrough being an issue in this test, but again Secrets really caters to the videophile crowd who strive for perfection.

Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity provide very detailed reviews. Especially in respect to video quality. For years they offered the "DVD Benchmark" which was an extensive battery of video tests encompassing about every known parameter. There are 3,000 Dollar DVD Players which scored 30 points!

Considering the 806 is available for over 50% off the original retail, the fact that the video processing is not perfect would not stop me from buying it. In truth, 99% of people will not notice the variation.
Also, passthrough is when you bypass the receivers video processing. Most people use the processing.
Especially to upsample non HD TV and DVD's to 1080p. However, if you go for passthrough, it appears it does alter the signal.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi Helen,

I just went through this process myself and thanks to the people here, I now have an awesome system. I fully agree with everyone's recommendation on Onkyo receivers.

One thing I wanted to add about the Onkyo's is that they can run warm/hot. If you keep it in a well ventilated area (not in a hutch without airflow) you should be fine. Similarly, don't put it on top of another machine that produces heat or have anything blocking the vents on top of it (e.g. a unit on top of the Onkyo).

Best wishes,
H


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

I'll go a similar route: but to get closer to your stated budget, you can initially get away without the center channel temporarily... less than ideal? Sure. But to get there a little at a time it's fine. thanks to room layout, I spent more than 4 yrs in bliss without a center speaker, until I moved and needed it for the new room.
Personally, if I was him, I'd rather get at least 2 speakers with the AVR than have the AVR just collecting dust until my next birthday...


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The initial system I recommended did not incorporate the TX-SR806. Rather, it included the TX-SR607 and 3 SVS Speakers for 607 Dollars.

I was actually surprised Helen was interested in going in the direction of spending the entire stated budget on the 806. I only supplied the 806 as the answer to what AVR would I get for around 500 Dollars.
Cheers,
JJ


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

I suggest a stereo setup on this budget. 

Get a pair of Behringer 2030p or Ascend Acoustics. It will give you a chance to get him more gifts down the road. Like the subwoofer, surrounds, etc... 

Stereo sound is way better than HTIB sound in my experience. Plus it give you the chance to buy him surrounds or a nice sub next Christmas. Another option is the Ascend Acoustics. I prefer the Behringers myself. 

Though I will say buying a man electronics can be dangerous. Taking him to his favorite sporting event might be another option if you get scared of the electronics.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Thankfully, Helen apparently, according to her initial post, is not even thinking about going the HTIB route thanks to our Forum.
The Behringer would be another excellent choice.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> Though I will say buying a man electronics can be dangerous. Taking him to his favorite sporting event might be another option if you get scared of the electronics.


Hi,

I would have to disagree with the last statement. While electronics can be a challenge when it comes to buying something for someone else (or yourself), I think that's why these types of forums exist.:T It lets someone (e.g. myself) who may not be as familiar with a genre of product (e.g. home audio), ask questions from people who are more familiar (e.g. HTS users). Those friendly people can then assist in giving suggestions on what to buy.

To suggest that one take an alternative route like "sporting event" due to being "scared of electronics", in my opinion, taking the easy way out. I dunno:dontknow:, he may not even like sports. However, a good sound system can be enjoyed by both her and her bf because they like watching movies together. 

Personally, I support her decision to go out on a limb, ask about something new, and hopefully surprise her bf with some great building blocks of an audio system they can both enjoy for years to come.:clap:

H

PS - Re-reading this message, I hope I do not come off as snarky or preachy.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The initial system I recommended did not incorporate the TX-SR806. Rather, it included the TX-SR607 and 3 SVS Speakers for 607 Dollars.
> 
> JJ


My bad JJ, I misread and mis-added. I'm with you all the way.


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I would have to disagree with the last statement. While electronics can be a challenge when it comes to buying something for someone else (or yourself), I think that's why these types of forums exist.:T It lets someone (e.g. myself) who may not be as familiar with a genre of product (e.g. home audio), ask questions from people who are more familiar (e.g. HTS users). Those friendly people can then assist in giving suggestions on what to buy.
> 
> ...


:yeahthat: Excellent input. :T


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## HelenK (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks for the additional input!

After some thinking... I decided to get a receiver and 2 speakers... because you guys are right, I don't want his receiver to sit there and collect dust. When the BF moves, he is going to first spend all his $$ on new furniture for the living room and bedroom. So, I don't think he'll start buidling his system till much later.

Thanks again for alll your help...

So, I believe I'm going to go with Jungle Jack's suggestion and purchase the "TX-SR607 and 3 SVS Speakers for 607 Dollars."


And to the comment about getting my man electronics would be dangerous... well, i've already crossed that line a ways back when I got him the ps3 and games to match.. LOL! I just wanna get him something that he loves.. and he loves 2 things: electronics and basketball (he already gets Laker tickets for cheap through work... so electronics it is!!) :R


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Helen, you made an excellent choice. And I will state again that your BF is a very lucky Man indeed.
You might want to look into picking up some Speaker Stands. SVS offers them, but you can easily find them locally. If your Best Buy also has a Pro Audio/Musical Instrument store (Cannot remember the name of the Stores), they sell Speaker Stands fairly cheaply.
Cheers,
JJ


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## HelenK (Dec 8, 2009)

Question...

Is there a significant difference in performance/durability/longevity between the Onkyo TX-SR607 and the Onkyo TX-SR507? (besides the obvious 7.2 vs. 5.1 channel)


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The TX-SR607 also offers video upscaling/transcoding. That is you can connect non HDMI sources to the 607 and have them output from a single HDMI cable. This really is a useful feature. Coupled with the more powerful amplifier section, which the SVS's will really benefit from, I think the 607 is the way to go.
Cheers,
JJ


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

My recommendation, at length. This can be done until the budget ends and gives a good path for continued growth. I think this is the best sound that can be done <$2000

*My recommendations for an inexpensive home system* 

Particularly during the lead-up to Christmas, there are a lot of requests for moderate ($700-$1500) stereo and home theater systems. Because I've answered this question so many times recently: I've decided to create this "stock answer" complete with my rational on why. 

For this recommendation, I've borrowed heavily from objective tests and modification experience of Chris (WmAx), and so certainly choose to credit him in much of this. Some is also from my own observations and discussions. 

Finally: I don't want to be perceived as saying "this is the only option". This is my suggestion, and why. I have reasons for this choice over other choices, but it is far from the only good option.

*Assumptions / Opinions* 
How many speakers do you actually need? 

Let me start with the simpler, though perhaps more contentious assumption: From my personal experience thus-far, you may not need a center channel (indeed, may have a loss of sound quality) if your front speakers are close together (less than about 10’ seems to be the rule-of-thumb). 

The reasons for this are likely related to destructive interference of signals coming from speakers placed within ½ wavelength of each other. When this happens, they act much like a single speaker… a single speaker with too large an emitter putting out sounds that might have been the same before your processor added a slight delay. Now you have comb filtering. I actually wrote and deleted another paragraph on this, but don’t want to debate it in this post: so suffice to say “if your L/R are close together try stereo fronts and see if that works well for you”. Just remember to tell your AVR/Processor that you aren’t using a center to it will phantom. 

That said: what about the surrounds? Whether you are running 5-channel or 7-channel (4 or 6 without center) will also likely depend on room size. Though 7-channel and 9-channel are interesting technologies: and something definitely worth playing with in dedicated home theater rooms: at this budget, a good 5-channel is likely going to sound better than a 7 because 1) the room is likely not the size of an in-home theater and 2) there’s less to mess up in positioning. 

The bigger point is: I’d always rather a good 5 than a bad 7. See more in the “affording less” section below. 

How many subs? 
Another major assumption / position relates to the use of subwoofers. I have taken the position that 2 subwoofers is superior two 1 subwoofer worth the cost of the two, and that this is doubly true when the 2 subwoofers are running in stereo. 

There’s honest debate on whether $150x2 subs > $300x1 sub. I’ll not rehash that debate here, but my opinion is that this is usually the case. 

Stereo subs I’ll address below in the “what about towers” section. 

What about towers? 
Two basic truths (or assumptions if you prefer): 
1) a given tower has more problems with cabinet resonance than an otherwise similar bookshelf (this is because the smaller dimensions of the bookshelf mean greater rigidity at the same building standard). 
2) The active crossover in your AVR, with HF going to a 2-way crossover in a bookshelf is superior to a 3-way crossover in a tower. 

Both of these truths are based on the price range being discussed. There are some very non-resonant cabinets with very good passive crossovers. They are out of our price range. 

There’s a third truth: A dedicated subwoofer has superior LF response to a tower in a similar price range. 

Therefore a bookshelf-sub-combination, when viewed as a single speaker will have a better dynamic range, less resonance, and demand less power from the amp, than a bookshelf and sub of otherwise similar quality. 

There’s a down side… and that is bass integration. See “why stereo subs” below. 

Why stereo subs? 
The first problem with using a subwoofer instead of a full range tower is that, particularly when listening to 2-channel music, the LF signals of L and R get combined. Because these signals may be out of phase, cancellation can occur (see the excellent article by Roger Russell). It is therefore desirable to make sure that even the low frequencies are being produced in stereo. 

Further: if you place the subwoofer within ½ the wavelength of the crossover point (generally “a couple of feet”) of the matched L or R speaker: the two act as a point source. Essentially, they become a single full-range speaker: only with an active rather than passive crossover, less resonance, and a better dynamic range than this price-point would otherwise afford. 

*Why these speakers were chosen* 
Behringer 2030p 
The 2030 was chosen for its very flat response graph both on axis and very far off axis. It is the flattest speaker near its price range, has good quality components, and can be improved further with minor modifications. There are some other equally promising speakers out there that I’m sure others will mention. 

The Dayton 10” or 12”. 
These subs were chosen because they are inexpensive, of good quality, and with the simplest of modifications can be made quite precise. If you’ve got more money, this would be one place to put it. 

*The order of buying* 
It’s possible that you won’t have enough money to build this all at once. Rather than a less expensive system, I’d recommend building this in pieces. If you need surround: literally the “cheapest thing that works” would be a good temporary choice for the rears while building out the rest of the system. 

You will need an AVR with a pre-out. If you don’t have a pre-in as well, you are going to have to find an external (2 channel) amp as well. The used market is good for the latter as the power requirements of the 2030p are not excessive. Beyond this paragraph: I won’t be discussing what receiver to get, or accounting for the costs. At least not in this post. 

Your minimum system is a pair of 2030’s ($130). This gives you stereo. As soon as possible, add at least a single sub ($150). At this point you have decent 2.1 sound. If you need surround ASAP, this is where I would add the “whatever I can get cheap” mentioned above. 

If you are having problems with center sound: I would next get a second pair of 2030’s and use one as the center. If you were interested in 7-channel (the rear 2 channels are not stereo), then this can later be used as a rear surround. 

Next get a second subwoofer. If your AVR has only 1 sub-out, you can use a cheap y-cable. You now have 2.2 /3.2 (or 4.2/5.2 if you used cheap surrounds) 

Next you need to track down an external crossover. They are something like $130 new, and can be found on the used market for about half of that. If you don’t have pre-in on your AVR, you will also need to find an amp now. Plug the L/R pre-out on the AVR into the crossover. Split the L/R signal at around 90Hz. Unplug the subwoofers from the AVR and plug them into the LF L/R out on the crossover. Plug the HF on the crossover into either the pre-in on the AVR, or the inputs on your amp, and plug the L/R 2030’s into the amp. 

Place the L/R speakers within a couple feet of their respective SW counter-parts (on top of, perhaps with a short but steady stand works). Tell your AVR that you don’t have a sub and that your L/R speakers are full-range. 

You now have 2-channel full-range. You also have surround with stereo subs. 
Next buy two more 2030’s and replace your surrounds. Use the extra from your center, or your old cheap surrounds as rears (if you are running 7 channel).


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