# Monitoring: To sub or not to sub?



## natureloop (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi there guys!
I would like to ask you whether it is advisable to complement a monitoring system with a subbass.

*Currently:* 
>room untreated (6m x 3m x 3m) introduces modes at roughly multiples of 30Hz (modecalc).
>monintoring Genelec 1029A: 75-18000Hz

*Would like to go lower:* 
> thus room treatment: absorption of multiples of 30Hz freqs
> new additional monitoring system: Yamaha HS80 (~55-20000) or Yamaha HS50+subHS10 (~35-20000)

So how low is it practical to start introducing freqs in the room (used for recording/mixing) ?

Thanks :sn:
Costas


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

What did you end up doing Costas?


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## rocksure (Mar 4, 2012)

In a room the size you mentionaed, I wouldn't have a sub for main monitoring. Unless you have a larger room that is solid enough to have no vibrations, and is really well treated, having a sub is more likely to throw your listening out of kilter than improve it.
You could possibly include a sub in a second reference system to check things, but I wouldn't mix using the sub personally.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I am just an enthusiastic listener and have no idea how the whole recording/mixing process is accomplished, so if you would kindly indulge me with this thought.
Whether using full range monitors or using smaller monitors + sub, wouldn't it be beneficial for a recording/mixing studio to be able to hear that the lower frequencies are being produced properly? If the studio is using monitors that do not play lower frequencies properly, let's say below 50hz for example, then that recording might not sound proper on a system that does play the lower frequencies.


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## rocksure (Mar 4, 2012)

gdstupak said:


> I am just an enthusiastic listener and have no idea how the whole recording/mixing process is accomplished, so if you would kindly indulge me with this thought.
> Whether using full range monitors or using smaller monitors + sub, wouldn't it be beneficial for a recording/mixing studio to be able to hear that the lower frequencies are being produced properly? If the studio is using monitors that do not play lower frequencies properly, let's say below 50hz for example, then that recording might not sound proper on a system that does play the lower frequencies.


This is correct in theory. However, in practice it only really works in large studio rooms where proper bass treatment is done. In small rooms bass collects in parts of the room like corners, is way down in level in the center of the room, and the leaves other parts of the room with mixed levels of bass, and differing levels of different bass frequenices in different places within the room. So what can happen is that you get a false idea of the bass content. You may think you have it right on a mix in "YOUR ROOM", but when you take it to another room you find there is either way more, or way less bass than you thought there was. The lower the frequencies represented the more this phenomenum occurs. So unless you have an optimum room with calibrated frequency response you are best not to include a sub, and if you must, then at least have it set at very low volume.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

That makes sense. Thank you.


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## Syd26147 (Jul 4, 2008)

gdstupak said:


> I am just an enthusiastic listener and have no idea how the whole recording/mixing process is accomplished, so if you would kindly indulge me with this thought.


 With the advent of PC's and NLE: a lot of track and stem recording is done in smaller personal studios, and exchanged electronically, often send to larger Mastering facilities.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Thank you Syd.
My parents have several musical instruments and I bought them some mic and other equipment for very basic and simple computer recording. I played with it a bit and loved doing it. My anality showed a bit with the process because I spent so much more time setting up trying to get the best sound with mic positioning and eq'ing than time spent recording. 

Enough daydreaming, back to the OP's query of adding a sub....


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## cycles (Mar 16, 2012)

If you're making electronic music i would definitely recommend a sub - the low end can get muddy pretty quickly and it helps to always know whats going on down there. With acoustic music/rock n roll/etc you should be fine without one as long as you can reference your mix easily somewhere.


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## Syd26147 (Jul 4, 2008)

gdstupak said:


> Thank you Syd.
> My parents have several musical instruments and I bought them some mic and other equipment for very basic and simple computer recording. I played with it a bit and loved doing it. My anality showed a bit with the process because I spent so much more time setting up trying to get the best sound with mic positioning and eq'ing than time spent recording.
> 
> Enough daydreaming, back to the OP's query of adding a sub....


 By the way I'm also in WV and it is has a small but fairly well networked music and arts scene.
You know anybody in Chas? and get to shows there?


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## rocksure (Mar 4, 2012)

cycles said:


> If you're making electronic music i would definitely recommend a sub - the low end can get muddy pretty quickly and it helps to always know whats going on down there. With acoustic music/rock n roll/etc you should be fine without one as long as you can reference your mix easily somewhere.


As I said before, unless you have your room really well treated so that you have a balanced frequency response, just because you can "hear" sub frquencies doesn't mean that you "know what's going on down there". A room with poor acoustic response will have pockets of too much, and too little bass in different parts of the room depending on where you are. Also some bass frequencies will tend to jump out and others will appear too quiet depending on the room response. So if you intend to incorporate a sub, spend some money on room treatment first.


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