# My Natalie P project (Completed)



## Exocer

Hey guys,
Having had only store bought speakers until now and feeling the satisfaction of DIYing a subwoofer with success I started to wonder what DIY would do for my mains . An inexpensive MTM using high quality drivers was exactly what the doctor ordered :laugh: So, I've decided on the enclosure size of 1.0cu.ft to tune it to around 32hz. This yields an F3 of 50hz with usable output into the low 30's according to unibox. In my small ~13x10x8 room this may get me where I need to be, without a sub since they'll be used for 90% music 10%ht,videogames.

So far I've ordered the BOM, ports, and acoustic treatment. I've attached some pics of the current progress.

The Dayton drivers in the pic will be used only for testing of the crossover components if I don't have the actual drivers in hand by the time the crossover is completed.


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## Sonnie

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Cool... 

I'd go crazy trying to glue all that stuff together. :sarcastic:


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Great to see you're making progress! What's funny is a few years ago that crossover would have looked really complex to me. Well, after building my huge towers those things look real simple. You should see the 20 some odd caps I had to wire all in parallel to equal one large value cap...I don't think I'll be doing that again if I can help it!


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Brian, :laugh: build my crossovers please  Afterall, it'll be nothing more than a walk in the park for you... hehe

I think everything is comming along...this crossover was much more intimidating before understanding the schematic. You mention paralleling multiple caps? Wow, that must've been a huge crossover. I've only paralleled two caps in two places :yes:


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

OK, now where's that soldering iron...


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Keep the pics coming!


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

One down, one to go.









Tested with midwoofer and works! Pretty good for a first attempt.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

The RS28A's are out of stock until ~July 1st  Looks like I wont be making much progress until then. I will be posting back with updates every now and then. I've decided on using the cheapo birch ply from Home depot for the enclosure. MDF was just way too messy


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Well, that stinks. But at least it's just around the corner. And they're well worth the wait. I should be ordering one for my center channel around that time.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Meh...now it says july 3rd 
Brian, which center? the WMTW center?
If so, how are the TMWW mains?

And...Would an HK AVR 235 be ample enough power to drive the 4ohm Natalie P's? I'll be upgrading to a dedicated 2-channel amp down the line but am a bit insecure about the 4ohm load.:scratch:


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Yes, the WMTW center. I can't speak to the TMWW's since I didn't build them but I expect them to be very good. I'm probably going with the version that cjd designed since he did the crossover for my big towers. I'd expect the sound to be similar. If you're going with a specific designer's center then I'd use his XO design for the towers as well.

I think the HK would do fine with them. My dad has one of the more entry level Sherwood Newcastle receivers running his MTMWW speakers we built for him and things are just fine.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Glad to hear I'll have enough power. Thanks.

Brian, I assume you have some experience with the Rs28a tweeter. I've seen many people say it rolls off relatively sooner than say the Seas 27TDFC used in the Modula MT design (possibly my next project ) this has me a little bit worried. I wouldv'e like the Natalie P's to provide at least a bit more "air" in the highs than my current NHT's. How would you describe the RS28a's tonal quality?

Edit: I may go with the 3/4" MDF again to build the cabinets, Birch ply is very hard to find around here...

Edit: Update, RS180's will be arriving tomorrow


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

The RS28A does taper off on the top end, but my hearing starts going above 17KHz or so. So this is not a big deal to me. I honestly don't think that you'll be missing anything.

As far as sound, the tweeter is very neutral. It isn't the least bit harsh. Just nice, clean sound and great power handling.


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Oh, and as far as the tweeters, check www.speakercity.com and see if they have any in stock.


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

I just wrestled a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" MDF home a few minutes ago. I think I'll get them to cut down the next few I get.  

Rockler has Baltic Birch if you have one close by. Also, ask for Apple Ply. It's the American version of BB.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Meh, looks like they have just the shielded version in stock...The crossover is designed for the unshielded version unfortunately. Thanks a million though. Know of any other places?

Flash, I'll be making a trip back to HD tomorrow, probably to get some MDF if they dont have the Baltic Birch. I don't have a local Rockler  and definitely didn't know about Apple ply.

Oh, be sure to never ask HD to make exact cuts. Let them cut your peices slightly larger so you can flush trim everything to even things out Its always better to have a larger peice and trim. I've had them cut a few peices up to 1/4" too small accidentily :rant:


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

I've got a garage full of tools.  I just use them from time to time to cut things down so I don't kill my back.

I bought the shielded ones when they were on sale recently.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*



FlashJim said:


> I've got a garage full of tools.


Good to know, now I know where to go if I ever need to borrow tools.:devil: 

If the shielded tweeters will work I'll go ahead and order them :R There is no re-assurance that it'll work with this crossover though..


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*










The quadruplets have arrived!

Sorry about the blurry pics...My friend misplaced the USB cable for the digicam, so I am using the cell phone..


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Woohoo! Now those tweeters need to come in.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*









This here is my expectation. Of course they'll be crossoved over @ ~50hz


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## Sonnie

*Re: My Natalie P project*

So when we gonna see some pics of the cabinets?


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

as soon as i start building :laugh: some time next week hopefully.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

1 Front baffle down, 1 to go. 
















This is REALLY getting exciting


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## Sonnie

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Lookin' good already Robert... lookin' good... :T


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Looks great!


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Thanks a lot guys!


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

No problem ... now make me a set.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Lol.


















Yes, I know I need to Vacuum...I promise it'll get done at some point after the speakers are completed later today


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Those are looking pretty cool! Great work!

Just wait until you see the speakers I'm going to be building for Sonnie!


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*



Brian Bunge said:


> Those are looking pretty cool! Great work!
> 
> Just wait until you see the speakers I'm going to be building for Sonnie!


I can't wait! They'll be insane :T

So what do you guys think. Should I finish building this one and listen to it alone or wait until both are done and listen to them as a pair?


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## F1 fan

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Those are lookin real good:T


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Thanks F1:T The one pictured above is completed. Now I need to sand things down and go over a few edges carefully as to not go against the grain to clean things up then onto the next speaker 

I couldn't wait till both were done to give this one a listen. Much improved bass over my NHT's, clearer highs, good transient response. I'll comment on imaging hopefully monday if the other speaker is done by then. Let me just say, placed about 1'-2' away from a wall, this speaker alone is capable of very audible output down to 30hz. Placed in the middle of the room the decrease in output begins around 50hz with strong output down to 40hz. Just as unibox suggested


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## Sonnie

*Re: My Natalie P project*

When you say much improved over your NHT's... that is saying a lot. You have obviously done a swell job designing these speakers Robert. You continue to impress me.

If you have one finished then when we gonna see the finished product? :huh:


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Sonnie,

The speakers we're talking about will basically have the same bass capabilities or better than these. And should we use the 2" mids you'd probably have midrange that's absolutely to die for! 

There I go hijacking a thread again...


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*



Exocer said:


> I couldn't wait till both were done to give this one a listen.


I knew it. lol I think we're all the same.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*










Its theoretically done in that it works and is glued together lol. I still have lots of edge cleaning to do however. Can't wait to hear these babies in stereo! :T

Sonnie, it does say a lot that these are a major improvement over the NHT's. No more metal dome tweeter hiss, and much more detail. The NHT SB-2's are a warm speaker, so you miss out on a lot of detail in the midrange, also voices can sound a bit congested at times through the NHT's compared to the Natalie P's


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## Sonnie

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Well again... that's nice work. I'm glad they turned out like you wanted. A few finishing touches and they are ready to market huh?


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## khellandros66

*Re: My Natalie P project*

i read that you were off by like 1/4in on the one tweeter, why not just replicate it on the second speaker and have em match??

My $0.02

~Bob


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Those Dayton tweeters sure are nice and smooth. Most people that don't like metal dome tweeters have never heard a good one. These are pretty *******' awesome.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*



khellandros66 said:


> i read that you were off by like 1/4in on the one tweeter, why not just replicate it on the second speaker and have em match??
> 
> My $0.02
> 
> ~Bob



Actually, I updated that post. The tweeter was actually .281" closer on one side. Much less of a problem than I made it seem...I went ahead and tried to re-do the baffle anyway and ended up making the same mistake but to a much lesser degree this time. It seems that naturally I goof up this portion of assembly by a similar amount every time 

Sonnie, you got it dude!

Brian Anyway...you gave me the disclaimer before buying the tweeters and since then I've changed my metal dome tweeter stance completely, after experiencing what the Rs28a can do.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*










A rough graph of in-room response. The only thing of suprise are the two major dips and that large peak. Seems that I need bass traps BADLY. Other than this bass response is definitely better than what I expected


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

This is the before roundover graph...we'll see how things are affected after the roundover 

And upper end reponse looks much better on axis but these measurements were taken @ listening position. I need taller stands.


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## Sonnie

*Re: My Natalie P project*

The bass region actually looks pretty good... that mid-bass region from 100hz - 300hz looks like it would be challenged.

Some traps to tame that 5khz peak would be nice.

Look at it with 1/6 and 1/3 octave smoothing too.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Sonnie, will do


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## Brian Bunge

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Are you talking about rounding over the vertical edges of the cabinet? It'll make some difference from a measurement standpoint but is really dependant on the radius of the roundover. Anything less than a 3/4" roundover is probably negligible and even that doesn't make a huge difference. 

I do like it from an aesthetic standpoint. I really like the looks of a 45 degree chamfer as well. That's what I did on my large 3-way towers. Really nice looking.


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Brian, Yeah I was thinking at least 3/4" roundover on the front baffle. Do you think messing with the internal stuffing would help correct any of the nulls?


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*


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## brucek

*Re: My Natalie P project*



> Do you think messing with the internal stuffing would help correct any of the nulls?


But aren't those nulls a result of the room and not the speaker?

Shouldn't you take a response outside (pseudo anechoic) to determine the speakers response and then deal with the room after that?

brucek


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Bruce, You've got the right idea. OTOH, that isn't an option...so I am trying to make due with what materials I do have..which seem a bit inadequate at this point. I'll need to purchase a good sound card for my mom's laptop to do outside measurements...any recommendations?


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## brucek

*Re: My Natalie P project*



> any recommendations?


My understanding is that many here (including Sonnie), recommend and use the quite inexpensive Creative Sound blaster MP3+ USB Sound Card.

How did you take the response of the speaker indoors? Why not cart that computer outside? onder: 

brucek


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

With my desktop comp. I'll get the sound blaster card asap and report back...I am not about to cart it downstairs and unplug all those wires for this  Too much of a headache


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Just a little thought...maybe moving the speakers to the center of the room away from all boundaries and taking a nearfield measurement would tell me what I need to know.


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## brucek

*Re: My Natalie P project*



> maybe moving the speakers to the center of the room away from all boundaries and taking a nearfield measurement would tell me what I need to know


Well, not completely. Certainly the size of the room has an effect. In addition REW has to be set up in such a way so that unfortunately the lower end response isn't useful.

John M says it best when he comments:


_"You need to move the loudspeaker as far from room boundaries as is practical (i.e. put it in the middle of the room), make the measurement, then go to the impulse response graph and set the gate time to exclude any reflections (evident as spikes on the response, more easily seen if you select the Full Range Energy-Time curve view). The reflection-free period is generally pretty short, if you are measuring the response at 1m from the speaker the reflection free period is a little more than the time sound takes to travel to the nearest boundary and back. Usually the floor is the nearest boundary, if your mic is 1m from the floor and the speaker is more than 1m from any other boundary the reflection-free period will be about 6ms. The problem with the short gate time is that it puts a limit on the lowest frequency at which you see meaningful response information and the frequency resolution of the response, for a 6ms gate time this figure is about 167Hz (1/gate time) which means this approach is only useful for full range measurement and doesn't tell you anything about the low frequency response."_

brucek


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

I am not so sure I follow the point of what JohnM is saying...or his instructions :rubeyes: I did however take some nearfield measurements in my room and things still look far from flat but the nulls are gone...and I am still getting the steap bump in the upper frequencies...I expected my carpet to take care of that :huh:








Individually tested ~1m from SPL meter as far away from any boundaries as possible, Red is the left speaker and green is the right speaker.


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## brucek

*Re: My Natalie P project*



> I am not so sure I follow the point of what JohnM is saying...


He's just saying to reduce the amount of relections in the room you need to reduce the time REW listens to the sound it samples. By doing so will reduce the abilty to get a response in the low frequencies (long wavelengths).



> things still look far from flat but the nulls are gone...and I am still getting the steap bump in the upper frequencies


Something else is wrong here.

brucek


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

Well, the mic was directly on the level of the tweeter. That may have something to do with the hump? I really need to just get over myself and take the comp downstairs or wait for the SB to arrive.


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

You could have saved a lot of time and money if you had just waited for these to go on sale at Parts Express. $39 for the pair! :rofl:


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## Exocer

*Re: My Natalie P project*

LOL!


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## Sonnie

*Re: My Natalie P project*

I wonder will they personalize the grill covers since no one would ever believe I've read that book... maybe they could put "History of Pink Floyd" on there for me. That's not a bad price at all. :R


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## FlashJim

*Re: My Natalie P project*

To be perfectly honest, I think it's a cool idea. 

I guess if you built a little bit bigger speaker you'd have to silk screen "War and Peace" on it.


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## Exocer

New Stands!


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## F1 fan

Speakers and stands look great, but I think that Dipole sub on the floor needs some more work .


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## Exocer

F1 fan said:


> Speakers and stands look great, but I think that Dipole sub on the floor needs some more work .


Lol!. Good laugh.


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## FlashJim

lol


Man, I am SO jealous. I haven't even started on my mains yet. Everything looks great!


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## Sonnie

Yeah... I've never seen an IB quite like that one before.... :scratch:


Nice work Robert... very nice!

Now... what we gonna do with all those wires?


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## FlashJim

Sonnie said:


> Now... what we gonna do with all those wires?


Cut them off and go wireless! That's how it's done, right? :huh:


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## Exocer

Nice one guys :neener: ...you guys always seem to find something wrong with my pics...i'll get all of you back one day! :R 

But seriously, I can use a few tips on neatening up these wires...I don't even know where to begin..


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## FlashJim

Build a big *** entertainment center to house everything - only to have it not fit everything later on. Wait, that's what I did. 

Split loom tubing, perhaps?


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## Sonnie

Oh boy... if you could see behind my cabinet. I think that's one reason I use a cabinet with a back on it... so I can hide all the wires.

You could use your size 13 shoes to stuff the excess wire in...onder:

I know... we are soooo bad.. :joke:


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## Exocer

Lol sonnie.. I miss being able to hide these wires.

Jim thanks for the awesome suggestion.


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## khellandros66

Exocer those are absolutely amazing, are you even gonna stain them?

~Bob


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## FlashJim

khellandros66 said:


> Exocer those are absolutely amazing, are you even gonna stain them?
> 
> ~Bob


Shoot, clearcoat 'em and enjoy them! They look good as is.


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## Exocer

Thanks a lot for the compliments guys, I am definitely not going to stain them. Clearcoating them one of these days would be awesome though. doubt i'll get around to that any time soon though...  They do look great as is, much greater in person


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## Exocer

Here is a more recent graph after making a few changes.


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## Sonnie

That looks pretty good Robert, other than the suck out between 100-140Hz... what do you think is causing that? You might look at it with 1/3 smoothing also.


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## Exocer

Thanks Sonnie.
About that suckout Im guessing maybe I need to round the edges on the front baffles(dont know if this will make a difference) OR maybe reflections from my window or probably just reflections from my wall are causing some type of cancellation. I went over the crossovers and all seems well.


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## Guest

Exocer said:


> About that suckout Im guessing maybe I need to round the edges on the front baffles(dont know if this will make a difference) OR maybe reflections from my window or probably just reflections from my wall are causing some type of cancellation


It's not the baffle.


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## Exocer

Sonnie, its already 1/3rd smoothed IIRC. I didn't save that data so id have to go back and re-measure to check.
So...probably just a sign I need bass traps?


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## brucek

> About that suckout Im guessing maybe I need to round the edges on the front baffles


Measure that speaker outside and that dip will not be present........

If you're using a Radio Shack meter, you should measure up to about 5K only........


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## Exocer

Wow, didnt know I should only be measuring up to 5k with the RadioShack meter.
Unfortunately testing outside isnt an option yet  None of my other speakers had such a large dip at any frequency but I guess since these are MTM's sound is dispersed differently than a regular TM?


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## Guest

> None of my other speakers had such a large dip at any frequency


This is a function of room placement and interaction with the geometry of the room


> but I guess since these are MTM's sound is dispersed differently than a regular TM?


MTM's have a different polar response compared to a MT, BUT, that isn't what's causing the dip in the plot.

If this pic is where they're located then you have several problems with placement. 1) these speakers are designed to be placed no less than 2' away from any boundry. 2) the TV will cause comb-filtering effects.


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## Exocer

Thanks a lot for that Thomas. I guess I should try and move the speakers as far away from anything as possible. It'll be hard with the size constraints but I'll figure something out.

I almost wish this was clear cut before going about building these. These sound amazing and I do not regret building them but probably would've thought twice considering how small my room is. Maybe Modula Mt's would've been better for a smaller room.


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## Exocer

This is how things look away from boundaries. 60hz crossover.


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## Guest

Doesn't matter if it's the NatP or the Modula MT. All 'normal' speakers are designed with BSC (baffle step compensation) in the crossover. This means the speakers are design to be 2' or more away from a boundry (rear-wall or side-wall). 

Speakers intended to be used near-wall/on-wall, require a different crossover design. 

Your plot shows the types of changes moving them out from the wall makes.


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## chasw98

You might be getting a bounce from the floor or a nearby boundary causing some cancellation at the microphone capsule in the range of the suspect frequencies. As suggested before, take them outside in open air and take a meausurement, then compare the 2 graphs and see what effect the room is having. Now what to do about it is a whole nother thread!

Chuck


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## Exocer

Totally agree. I'll stop posting in-room graphs...I think everyone already gets a **** good idea how my room is effecting the FR. Next is to get a soundcard for the laptop


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## Exocer

Well, I finally got around to doing some close-mic measurements, setting each speaker in the same exact position. I did this for two reasons.

1.Hopefully determine realistically whether or not there is a problem with the speaker itself around 120hz. For a little reassurance.
2. See how close to each other the speakers measure, the closer they measure the better.

Close mic (indoor) distance ~1.5ft
Here are my 1/1 smoothing graphs

Left:








Right:









1/3 smoothing graphs
Left:








Right:









IMO the two speakers measure ridiculously close to each other.

The issue at 120hz 1/1 smoothing. Measurement taken at listening position









Huge null at 120hz with every reasonable location for these speakers in my room.

Let this be a message to everyone on the importance of placement and proper acoustic treatment

Edit: The close-mic measurements were accidently done with speakers set to small with a 60hz crossover. The last graph showing the in-room null was taken with the speakers set to large.


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## JCD

Wow, that room null is bummer! Are you thinking about adding some bass traps?

JCD


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## Exocer

JCD, yes I am thinking about bass traps. But I don't know where to begin with that.
It was suggested that placement could be the culprit in this situation. If placement is the problem would bass traps even help the situation?


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## JCD

Well, placement of the Bass Traps yes.. it should be able to help with the null regardless of where you put the speakers themselves.

You're lucky you're here. We've got two of the best accoustic guys as mods on this forum Bpape and Ethan Winer from GIK and RealTraps respectively.

Possibly a shameless plug, but both are knowledgible and helpful on the topic. I'm fairly confident that should you buy products from their stores, they'll go the extra step of telling you where to place the traps for best effect. They both have a great reputation for product/customer support.

I should be getting some swag for those recommendations..

JCD


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## Exocer

Haha, you should.

Thanks for the suggestion. I've actually been looking at some of their options and they're way more affordable than I expected them to be. Good news for me..the poor struggling college student with an audio addiction..


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## JCD

Sigh.. I understand the funds sitch -- it hasn't gotten much better since I was in college. :dunno: 
ESPECIALLY after I got married :scared: 

If you're really on a budget, Ethan Winer has a web page with DIY projects. 
Here is the link to his general treatise on acoustics.
Here is the link to his DIY Bass traps.

Hopefully someone smart will jump in, but probably a good quick and dirty bass trap would be to put a sheet of OC703 or OC705 of at least 4" thick across each front corner so that you create a triangle with the 2 walls and the fiberglass. Thicker is probably better and stacked is probably better too. The "membrane" trap on Ethan's website is surely better, but harder to build.

JCD


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## Exocer

Well, since I updated this thread I took a few more nearfield measurements, both measure identically and relatively flat. I've been focused more on bass lately...its an addiction that some of you guys around here know about 

In other news, I have a Behringer A 500 on the way and will be sharing my thoughts as soon as i get some quality time with it


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## Exocer

Finally received the A 500. This amp is certainly a steal and sounds great. I wonder why everyone doesn't have one yet... :bigsmile:


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## BoomieMCT

ThomasW said:


> All 'normal' speakers are designed with BSC (baffle step compensation) in the crossover. This means the speakers are design to be 2' or more away from a boundry (rear-wall or side-wall).



How so? I've pull out the crossovers in any speakers I get my hands on and I haven't found a commercial one yet that has BSC (a inductor and resistor in parallel) built in. Am I missing something?


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## Darren

You'll know when you hear them against the wall or inset in a wall. The speakers take on a whole different characteristic, they become forward, tinny or canny sounding. You probably won't be getting an answer from ThomasW, I don't believe he frequents the forum anymore.


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## BoomieMCT

Darren said:


> You'll know when you hear them against the wall or inset in a wall. The speakers take on a whole different characteristic, they become forward, tinny or canny sounding. You probably won't be getting an answer from ThomasW, I don't believe he frequents the forum anymore.


Oh, I was just curious about this. I understand how speaker placement can affect the sound. I was just asking about the assertation that "most normal" speakers have BSC _in the crossover_. I can't find any physical evidence of this.


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## WillyD

BoomieMCT said:


> Oh, I was just curious about this. I understand how speaker placement can affect the sound. I was just asking about the assertation that "most normal" speakers have BSC _in the crossover_. I can't find any physical evidence of this.



If you've found that most commerical speakers you've looked at don't have BSC in the xover, well, thats just a testament to DIY (where any decent design not meant for in-wall or on-wall use will have BSC).


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## BoomieMCT

WillyD said:


> If you've found that most commerical speakers you've looked at don't have BSC in the xover, well, thats just a testament to DIY (where any decent design not meant for in-wall or on-wall use will have BSC).


Oh, no arguments here. DIY all the way!

I don't know if this is OT and needs a new subject line but this is a topic I've been very interested in recently. I built a set of small (6.5") open baffle speakers. They had a very pronounced baffle step so I built a passive BSC for the electronic network. It didn't do much other then reduce the sensativity of the speakers. I moved the location of the speakers and *that* really cut down the baffle step.

Now, I realize that because of the back wave OB speakers are probably an exception to most placement rules however I'm now very curious about how much BSC's are really needed. Like most things, it probably depends on the room and application.


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## Exocer

BoomieMCT said:


> Like most things, it probably depends on the room and application.


Looks like you just answered your own question :bigsmile: 

For published projects however, I believe the goal is to find a medium. The focus would be a specific amount of BSC that people with different placement options and room acoustics will be happy with. There is no way to optimize BSC for everyone's room...but of course you already know this. Thats where the Y in diy comes in. :T 

BTW, the A 500 is certainly a keeper. Whoever doesn't have one should go order one right this second


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