# SVS Ultra questions



## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

what would be the F3 of the new ultra in sealed mode?

since the regular 3 port 12" driver subwoofers are not recommended to be retuned to the last port ... will this new ultra be recommended for use in the 10hz tune? (or would it still be a requirement to have a small room OR duals?)


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## weeZ (Sep 10, 2006)

Forgive my ignorance, what's F3?


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

frequency extension at -3db (I heard some people using the term)


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

With respect to low port tunings in the new single driver Ultra13 enclosures Tom Vodhanel said this at the Spot:

"We never had a subwoofer that was in "10hz" mode with a single 4" port open. The correct comparison would be the new Ultra1 models will have a single 3.5" port open and the current ultra1 models have a 3" port. Also, we've designed all new custom tooling for the port tubing, inner flares, outer flares, and elbows to further increase port flow. Going from 3" to 3.5" doesn't sound like much...but it represents >35% more sectional area. When you factor in the new tubing, elbow, inner flare and outer flare a good estimate for the increased port flow would be around 40%. (not an insignificant amount by any measure..

Now, could it be argued that the new designs would perform a little better <15hz if we made it twice as large(so it could have more porting area in 10hz mode)?...sure. But there are always aesthetic/performance trade offs to consider. The new designs are already large and heavy...increasing both of these fundamental aspects significantly to increase the performance in an extremely narrow bandwidth(<15hz) that had very, very little content wasn't a trade off I was willing to make.

Put a new PB13Ultra in 15hz mode, experiment a little with the PEQ and room compensation controls...and you should be able to generate a reasonable flat response curve down to 10-12hz in most rooms."


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

hmm, I already have a subwoofer that does flat to 15hz ...

I want the sub 15hz! 

but from that quote ... the 15hz tune is flat to 10-12?


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## weeZ (Sep 10, 2006)

mike c said:


> frequency extension at -3db (I heard some people using the term)


Thanks Mike!

I will be upgrading and will be holding on to my ultra/2 till I do some comparisons.


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Tom's saying your room gain at low freq. will give you some extension below the rated tuning point.

I'm treading on the big boys turf here, but I've seen several recent vented DIY designs are using tuning points in the 13-14 Hz range.

You need to define your needs/goals as exactly as you can. What sub 10Hz material are you trying to reproduce? How big a space? How loud?


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

a room no bigger than 3000 cu ft.

10hz material ... I don't know of any  I just want to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.
as loud as a person can take safely in my size room.

my plan:
my existing subwoofer running 80hz to 35hz (or maybe 50hz) nearfield.
SVS low tuned subwoofer running 50hz and below or 35hz and below up front.


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## Chrisbee (Apr 20, 2006)

Mike

Balancing two subwoofers of different performance levels is no easy task.
The one with the greater extension often has the ability to thrash a smaller sub.
Do you turn up the weaker sub to match the powerful one? Nope. It will just crash and burn.
If you turn down the powerful one to match the small one you just throw away all that potential performance in the upper bass.
A better way to obtain very low frequency extension is to use multiple, good quality subs with very good extension.
One keen HT fan used 8 x 16-46s. A single 16-46 can reach 15Hz at full power in my room but still has output below that.
I can well imagine the incredible "bottom end power" of such a combination of subs.
The overall extension won't be stretched beyond any single sub's range but each sub will reinforce the others to amplify the lower frequencies.
With the further advantage that distortion will be decreased too.
I've tried a 10Hz sinewave @ 95dB. (RS SPL meter uncorrected) 
It is still not audible but the vibrations can really be felt in the room. 
Nothing can resist vibrating violently in sympathy with the pressure waves in the air.
Your home may not be up to this task if you achieve high enough levels.


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Mike, I was looking through your posts trying to see what your existing sub is -- last year you said you had a Velodyne CHT15/DSP5000 and an Axiom EP500, is that still correct?

Considering that a single new Ultra13 should have close to twice the output of an Axiom EP500 and should have at least equivalent sound quality (we'll see, obviously  ) AND go considerably deeper, I'd be tempted to sell both your existing subs and get one Ultra13.

In any case you should get some EQ: BFD, DEQ-2496, QSC-DSP30, SMS-1, whatever price/features/performance spot you feel comfortable with.


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

I figure they should be working on different frequencies and thus not overshadow each other. (high and low pass one sub - high pass the other)


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

Geoff Gunnell said:


> Mike, I was looking through your posts trying to see what your existing sub is -- last year you said you had a Velodyne CHT15/DSP5000 and an Axiom EP500, is that still correct?
> 
> Considering that a single new Ultra13 should have close to twice the output of an Axiom EP500 and should have at least equivalent sound quality (we'll see, obviously  ) AND go considerably deeper, I'd be tempted to sell both your existing subs and get one Ultra13.
> 
> In any case you should get some EQ: BFD, DEQ-2496, QSC-DSP30, SMS-1, whatever price/features/performance spot you feel comfortable with.


don't worry I've gotten rid of the lesser subs ... I'm already using the CHT15R/DLS5000R on my PC, the Axiom EP500 has been banished to my bedroom (2 channel music). I won't be selling them though, I don't like taking a single cent of loss ... I find other overkill uses for all my audio stuff.

my current subwoofer is a Velodyne Digital Drive 18"

I do plan on getting an SMS-1 to match the ultra13 when it arrives.

if you look at my signature picture ... the first three subs are here ... the two PB12 Pluses are on the way ... and the Ultra13 I'm waiting to be released. (I'm a bass freak)


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

I keep most of my audio stuff too 

When you get your SMS-1, make sure it has the upgraded software (you can upgrade it if not) or you'll be filtering below 15Hz IIRC.

With the SMS-1 built into the DD-18, and one for your other sub(s), you should be able to blend and phase align the subs. I'd go ahead and get the 2nd SMS-1 now -- the PB12-Plus's will benefit from it also.

If you already have a way of displaying the frequency response of your system (such as a laptop/REW/ECM-8000 mic) consider the QSC-DSP30 as an alternative to the SMS-1. It also requires a laptop to run it's software, but take a look at what you get:
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/dsp/dsp30/dsp30.htm
And the software allows you to drag n drop your filters into place:
http://www.qscaudio.com/products/software/signal_manager/signal_manager.htm
How cool is THAT?


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

the two PB12 pluses are for another room (which I will christen "dedicated HT #1) - I won't be spending for EQ there.

does this QSC do the job of the BFD and more? :
serial port instead of MIDI? (my mac laptop doesn't have that serial port, I wonder if there are adaptors)
it's own software?

also, does the ECM mic need a mic preamp?

p.s. thanks for the recommendation, I will definitely look into this (will look for a supplier)


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Rather than try to explain the differences (and possibly miss something) I'll just post links to some Behringer items -- read the .pdf files for a full description of each unit.
http://www.behringer.com/DSP1124P/index.cfm?lang=ENG
http://www.behringer.com/DEQ2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG
http://www.behringer.com/DCX2496/index.cfm?lang=ENG
The QSC DSP30 compares most closely with the DCX2496.

I'm thinking that at some point you are going to be building your own sub(s)  and you will find EQ that has a good selection of crossover slopes and can provide a bass shelf type EQ curve to be very useful 

The MIDI issue -- I thought a recent Behringer software/firmware upgrade had disabled the ability to set BFD filters via MIDI from REW -- ask the experts here 

Yes the ECM-8000 requires both phantom power and a preamp, roughly another $60 + cables.


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## gyusher (Mar 28, 2007)

WOW!!!

Best kept secret of our time. . .

I just found SVS's new Ultra 13. . . .WOW!!!


Wow. . . 20Hz in 'loud' mode. . .WOW!!

That thing looks awesome. . .I know it ain't hype what they are saying. . .

One more time. . .WOW!!!

I'm speechless. . . I know what I'll be dreaming about tonight. . . I'm buying a new Plus2 in a week or so (my 2nd plus2 ). . . In a way I'm glad I didn't see that thing when I was doing my figuring. . .


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

mike c said:


> the two PB12 pluses are for another room (which I will christen "dedicated HT #1) - I won't be spending for EQ there.
> ...


I have spoken too soon there ... I have ordered a pair of SMS-1's
one for the Ultra/Bedroom and one for the pair of PB12's

the QSC unit wasn't sold here so I ordered the pair on impulse. :devil:


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

*Questions for SVS:*

*1) when you say 10% discount for returning customers, do you mean e.g. $1,499 less 10% or $1,399 less 10% for the PB13 Ultra Textured Black ? :dumbcrazy: 

2) for us International Customers: how do we pre-order, direct email or through our dealer?*


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## gyusher (Mar 28, 2007)

Discount. . . Shoot that thing is already a bargain at bust out retail. . . One thing is certain. . .You ain't going to beat it at 3 times the price. . .

Of all the reviews (plus personal experience) I have read from Secrets and everywhere else I could find there is only 2 or 3 that I would consider and the cheapest one of those is 3300.00. Still put them all in a room and let me pick one. . .You know the one that I take home. . . 

I for one am thrilled that they are within my reach in the first place. . .

That said however I do know how it feels to put champange into a beer budget. . . It's not necessarliy how much it costs but it's how much I got that I can spend . . .


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

mike c said:


> I have spoken too soon there ... I have ordered a pair of SMS-1's
> one for the Ultra/Bedroom and one for the pair of PB12's
> 
> the QSC unit wasn't sold here so I ordered the pair on impulse. :devil:


Good decision.

SMS-1's are what I use right now :bigsmile: 

Capability and cost relative to pro equipment aside, the SMS-1 does it the right way: a dedicated processor and an RTA display output on a monitor feed.

Outlaw Audio has written a rather lighthearted how to manual for the SMS-1 that's quite good:
http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/sms1guide.pdf


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

yeah, figured I'm paying for the convenience. I couldn't learn the BFD the first time, I'm not gonna learn it now  

though the REW was very useful.


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