# Which brand/type cables to get for 2 core shielded balanced line cables?



## intgenx (Aug 8, 2013)

Folks,

Cables are where the most mis-information is floating around...I'm really not sure which ones to go for...

I'd like to get some help from forum members on which cables offer the best price/performance.

My processer is a Motu Ultralite Mk3 (Hybrid) used as a USB DAC outputs are balanced 1/4" TRS.
I intend to use Amphenol ACPS-GB-AU or Neutrik NP3X-B for the TRS plugs.

My speakers are Neumann KH310 for 5 channels - subwoofer is still not decided. I intend to use Neutrik XLR connectors.


I will need about 50m of 2 core shielded balanced line cabling... and power cables too...
Which of the below brands do is highly recommended?

Canare (Japan)
Mogami (Japan)
Belden (USA)
Gotham (USA)
Klotz (Germany)
Sommer (Germany)
Eurocable (Italy)
ProEl (Italy)

Any other brands?


Some factors I've been advised to consider:
1. Oxygen Free Copper vs Electrolytic Tough Pitch copper
2. Number of strands in each core, What is the thickness of the core I should be looking for?
What capacitance? Impedance?

3. Whether it is rated for AES/EBU - If price is not a factor - I'm being told AES/EBU rated cables are desgined for low signal loss and so should be better even for analog signals?
How true is this?

4. Should I get microphone cables or balanced line cables? I'm guessing line cables cannot be used for mic level signals but mic cables can be used for line level signals

5. Carrying signal and power in the same cable but in different shield cores as in the below product:
http://shop.klotz-ais.com/cgi-bin/q...ion=showdetail&artnum=HD01PC_&wkid=2004g&ls=e

Klotz - HD01PC15

can this be used... for analog signals without any interference / noise? Is this cable only suitable for digital signals?

What are the demerits of sending both signal and power in the same cable?

This hybrid cable will especially be suitable for me to connect the Active Speakers - since I just have to run a single cable - particularly to the surrounds... which will make the job a lot neater... but if this is suitable only for digital+power and not for analog line signals+power - then I'm out of luck...

and obviously the 2 cores to the speakers will be terminated with XLR connectors and the 2 cores to the power will be with the appropriate power jacks.

Anything else I should know or consider?

Thanks in advance for all responses...


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I have used Canare Starquad cable with Neutrik XLR connectors in the past and I was happy with them. As far as running power down the same cable even if shielded I would not do that. I have always been told to run power 90 degrees from interconnects and speaker wires... Maybe running balanced cables will allow running power next to it but I would still be worried about interference. I like to have my power as far from my cables as possible.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Don't get caught up in buying exspencive cables as most offere no audible difference in sound quality. Some still have better connectors on the ends but they too can get way over priced with little gain.
Analog signals can be effected by power lines but if it's digital it can't interfear with it so don't worry.

Have a look at monoprice.com for good quality cables without the big price tag


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I agree with Tony. I wired my house with Beldon Brilliance cable at a fraction of the cost of any other "exotic" cable. I agree with Ellis that if you Must run analog audio cable near electrical they must cross at a 90deg angle and never be run parallel without being at least a foot away from each other. You will have less issues with noise using balanced cables.

Is this for a studio?


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## RBTO (Jan 27, 2010)

I second what ellisr63 said. Canare Starquad is an economical cable that will give you great results. For relatively short runs like you have in a home setting, even lower priced cables would probably be sonically equivalent, but starquad will give improved rejection of outside interference. No need to pay more. These cables will work for both microphone and line applications and you don't need to worry about #2 or #3 in your questions. Don't run audio with power unless the power is DC (even then, it's a good idea to separate the lines).


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Have never heard of the other brands, but you can’t go wrong with Mogami, Belden and Canare - they are all top-flight brands. Any of their two-conductor balanced cables will be fine for audio. Just pay attention and don’t get anything rated for installations. Can’t help you with AES/EBU. I suggest posting on a professional forum like Pro Sound Web or Tape Op Message Board.



intgenx said:


> 4. Should I get microphone cables or balanced line cables? I'm guessing line cables cannot be used for mic level signals but mic cables can be used for line level signals


It’s the same thing. Balanced cables are used for microphones. The wire does not care about signal strength.



> 5. Carrying signal and power in the same cable but in different shield cores as in the below product:
> http://shop.klotz-ais.com/cgi-bin/q...ion=showdetail&artnum=HD01PC_&wkid=2004g&ls=e
> 
> Klotz - HD01PC15


What kind of “power” are you talking about?” If it’s power from wall outlets, NO. *You do not want to carry power and audio on the same cable.*. It’s dangerous and probably illegal, no matter where in the world you may live. I doubt that cable is designed for anything audio or video related. 

Regards, 
Wayne


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## intgenx (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks folks for the detailed responses... 
I'm simply amazed at the level of misinformation or half-information floating around... and that just suits or is even encouraged by many companies as they seem to be making and marketing products not just for every budget level but also for every ignorance level....

My signals are analog and therefore the Klotz Hybrid cables rated for Digital+Power may not be ideal for me as you guys have suggested... The Klotz Hybrids are apparently recommended by Genelec and other active speaker makers... for carrying digital signals and mains power.

Has anyone used an AES/EBU rated cable to carry Analog signals and noticed or measured any difference?
Or at the very least are they in theory supposed to be better for any signal be it digital or analog than non AES cables?

This is for a home-theater but with studio grade equipment... (5 channels of 3 way Active speakers of 290W output each, MOTU ultralite as the DAC/sound-card fed via USB from a HTPC)

So it looks like the audience is primarily North American and hence the ready feedback on Canare, Belden, Mogami...

So what is the gauge of wire I should be looking at?

btw: what do you folks think of the attached white paper from Canare?
http://www.canare.com/UploadedDocum...phone Cable Perfrmance and Specifications.pdf


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## intgenx (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm thinking I'll go with the Canare Star Quad...
http://www.canare.com/UploadedDocuments/Cat11_p35.pdf

any other similar products from competitors - that I should consider?
Price is not a factor - but pro-quality and good performance is...
hype is not a factor - but good reputation among the pros and those in the know is a must....


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

intgenx said:


> So what is the gauge of wire I should be looking at?


That’s no terrible relevant in your application. Any good-quality cable will be sufficient. The manufacturers know what gauge wire is needed and make their products accordingly.




> btw: what do you folks think of the attached white paper from Canare?
> http://www.canare.com/UploadedDocum...phone Cable Perfrmance and Specifications.pdf


Again, not relevant for your application. It’s mainly concerned with exceptionally low-level signals used with microphones.




intgenx said:


> I'm thinking I'll go with the Canare Star Quad...
> http://www.canare.com/UploadedDocuments/Cat11_p35.pdf


The star-quad is mainly useful for additional noise rejection properties on long balanced runs. Again, not relevant in your situation. You’ll do just as good with L-2T2S or L-2E5.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Cable is cable 99.9% of the time. You're better putting more money into your equipment or even better your music collection  

You should keep power about 6" away from low voltage or cross at 90°. This is the only reason that "lifters" should be used. 

$$$ /= quality and quality /= $$$ but a bad cable is usually a very cheap cable. XLR vs RCA in itself reduces distortion greatly.


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## intgenx (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks Wayne...

should I go for: AES/EBU cables like you for some future possibilities with AES/EBU digital signals instead of line level?
I've seen several thread/posts that seem to suggest AES/EBU digital cables will be just as good or better for analog signals too...

In addition the Star Quad has a capacitance of 150pF/m whereas the AES/EBU less than a third of that.

should I go for the ones rated for the longer distances - may be these are a higher quality? 
my longest length piece will be about 50ft.

Canare Corp.: AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable: 110 ohm AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable(DA206)
Canare Corp.: AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable: 110 ohm AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable(DA202)
Canare Corp.: AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable: 110 ohm AES/EBU Digital Audio Cable(DA202AT)

or may be the Belden equivalents? 
I hear the "Sommer cables have a good reputation on the other side of the pond and being in India - dealers here seem to carry both Euro and US products.
I think I'm down to Belden or Canare from redco with international shipping or to get Klotz or Sommer from my local dealers.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

intgenx said:


> Thanks Wayne...
> 
> should I go for: AES/EBU cables like you for some future possibilities with AES/EBU digital signals instead of line level?


Sorry, I told you everything I know about AES/EBU in Post #6. 

Regards, 
Wayne


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## intgenx (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm thinking I'll go with one of the below AES/EBU cables with dual (Braided and Foil) shield.

Belden 1696A
Klotz AEY122
Klotz OT206YS/B
Klotz OT206P
Sommer CMCK02
Sommer SC-CarboKab 225

Any other AES/EBU cables with dual shield?

Any thoughts?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

AES/EBU is a standard for transmiting digital audio, not actual a cable. For the cable itself it depends on the Ohm rating. IF you are using XLR its 110ohm if your doing RCA its 75ohm.

Now I haven't used anything with a TRS plug since I was a DJ in the 80s but looking at specs online I don't find any that say they are 110 ohm. When you look at fully assembled AES/EBU type cables the are all either RCA (seems Canare is one of the only companies that make 75 ohm RCA connectors) and XLR.

So unless I am wrong about the TRS plugs (which is possible), I don't think you can create a AES/EBU cable using them.

Looking at the Motu website the ultralite mk3 has analog outputs so I don't see how using a digital cable would be of use, However, my knowledge of this type of equipment is nil, but it does seem logical.

Before the advant of HDMI, I did make digital audio cables for SPDIF and component video using Belden 1694A and Canare RCA, the only caviate was that I had to find a borrow a tool to crimp the ends properly or I would loose the benefit.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

TRS cables can be balanced or unbalanced, so it depends on the application.


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## JIMKOVACS (Jul 13, 2011)

dear all... running AC power close to audio lines (especially low level / high impedance) is a no-no. 
Running DC will not interfere at all, unless you turn on your power while the audio is open. In that case it will generate a one-time magnetic field, causing a POP if your balanced lines are not really balanced. Very few are, regardless of cable types.
After that, the field stabilizes and there is no more interference.
Just to be REALLY safe, put in some 100 mF (check your voltage, go for 30% above supply) polarized condensers both sides of the power line, to take out any RF that might develop.
Have fun... !


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

JIMKOVACS said:


> dear all... running ac power is a no-no. Running DC will not interfere at all, unless you pop on your power while the audio is open. In that case it will generate a one-time magnetic field, cousing a POP if your balanced lines are not really balanced.
> After that, the field stabilizes and there is no more interference.
> Just to be REALLY safe, put in some 100 mF polarized condensers both sides of the power line, to take out any RF that might develop.
> Have fun... !


I don't understand what this has to do with the topic. 

Just to be clear, polar caps on DC, non-polar caps on AC.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

lcaillo said:


> TRS cables can be balanced or unbalanced, so it depends on the application.


True, I just don't think they are compatible with the AES/EBU standard. And if they happen to cost more I don't see the point since the output signal going through the cable is analog. Now if for some reason its cheaper then it won't hurt, just don't use non AES/EBU cable for a digital signal


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## intgenx (Aug 8, 2013)

Folks, 
Its time to pull the trigger and the finalists are:

Klotz - OT206Y
Belden - 1696A
Sommer - SC-SemiColon 2
Gotham - 10601 - GAC2 AES

Pl. vote for your preferred selection.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Belden. They are one of the largest manufactures of cable in the world, they probably make the cable for the other 3 and just rebrand it.


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## intgenx (Aug 8, 2013)

Yes... I hear Belden are the biggest and it seems they bought out Gotham's plant.
Not sure where Klotz and Sommer get theirs made - but price wise the Sommer and Klotz are in the same region - about EUR1.5 a meter whereas Gotham and Belden are around EUR2 a meter.


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