# How loud is too loud?



## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

ISLAND1000 said:


> Your ears will be ruined in a few minutes if you listen to music or sound at the levels you're telling us you want!
> You CANNOT listen to 130db music for more than a few moments without sustaining permanent hearing damage!
> Hearing damage occurs at less then 100db with sustained sound.
> If you've already had those levels of music/sound in your car for any length of time, you're hearing is already partially damaged.
> ...


I've been in 150db cars and I own a 142db car, my hearing is fine, damage only occurs with higher frequencies at those levels, if I had a car that did 160db on music (and some people do) my hearing would start to get damaged, but not instantly. And if it does much higher than 165db you get nose bleeds and ruptured eardrums.
My hearing is BETTER than people I know who have their iPods up really high (and iPods can only do 100-110db), youtube search Steve Meade, his Tahoe does 157db on music, he's had it like that for ages, and his hearing is fine.

/rant

It is impossible to generate that much SPL in a house though.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

*Re: Subwoofer*



jimjim said:


> I've been in 150db cars and I own a 142db car, my hearing is fine, damage only occurs with higher frequencies at those levels, if I had a car that did 160db on music (and some people do) my hearing would start to get damaged, but not instantly. And if it does much higher than 165db you get nose bleeds and ruptured eardrums.
> My hearing is BETTER than people I know who have their iPods up really high (and iPods can only do 100-110db), youtube search Steve Meade, his Tahoe does 157db on music, he's had it like that for ages, and his hearing is fine.


Sorry, but I'm going to call that on safety. Even with high dynamic range music and the peaks at the highest levels mentioned, you will do hearing damage, irrespective of frequency in a very short timeframe as even the _average_ levels are well above what any OH&S in the world recommends for even short durations. For highly compressed "loudness wars" program material, it will be even worse.

I am also well aware that what something is _capable_ of under test and how it is _used in practice_ can be too very different things. Nonetheless to advocate listening at such high SPL that has been shown to do damage to hearing I cannot abide comfortably.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

*Re: Subwoofer*



A9X said:


> Sorry, but I'm going to call that on safety. Even with high dynamic range music and the peaks at the highest levels mentioned, you will do hearing damage, irrespective of frequency in a very short timeframe as even the _average_ levels are well above what any OH&S in the world recommends for even short durations. For highly compressed "loudness wars" program material, it will be even worse.
> 
> I am also well aware that what something is _capable_ of under test and how it is _used in practice_ can be too very different things. Nonetheless to advocate listening at such high SPL that has been shown to do damage to hearing I cannot abide comfortably.


I'm not saying it won't damage hearing, but lower frequencies do far far far less damage then higher ones. I will gladly sit in a car that does 150db at 30hz, but I definitely wouldn't sit in a car that did 130db on frequencies above 200hz. These numbers I gave before are for cars metered using rap music with pretty much constant 35-45hz bass, so that would probably qualify under the loudness wars material.

I don't know if I read you wrong, but I wasn't promoting incredibly loud bass, I was just saying that it is not as damaging as most on here think, and it isn't, but I choose to listen to it at my own risk, and so do others. I'd hate to have a 140db HT BTW, it would be overdoing it, HT is about great sound thats flat in frequency response, I was just giving insite into another world of audio.


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## ISLAND1000 (May 2, 2007)

*Re: Subwoofer*



jimjim said:


> My hearing is BETTER than people I know who have their iPods up really high (and iPods can only do 100-110db), youtube search Steve Meade, his Tahoe does 157db on music, he's had it like that for ages, and his hearing is fine.


Jim, you just go ahead thinking like you do and comparing your hearing to someone who's already suffered some hearing loss from an (iPod no less) or even Steve who drives around in his Tahoe "which does 157db" on music.


I've worked on the service ramp around the large aircraft with jet engines for years. My hearing has suffered from loud noise much less than 157db. But my hearing had already been damaged singing and playing in a rock and roll band in my young years. I've been to concerts and been near the stage within feet of the speaker stacks. I wish some one had warned me.
My name is Phil. maybe you'll remember me when you have your first failed hearing test.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

*Re: Subwoofer*



ISLAND1000 said:


> Jim, you just go ahead thinking like you do and comparing your hearing to someone who's already suffered some hearing loss from an (iPod no less) or even Steve who drives around in his Tahoe "which does 157db" on music.
> 
> 
> I've worked on the service ramp around the large aircraft with jet engines for years. My hearing has suffered from loud noise much less than 157db. But my hearing had already been damaged singing and playing in a rock and roll band in my young years. I've been to concerts and been near the stage within feet of the speaker stacks. I wish some one had warned me.
> My name is Phil. maybe you'll remember me when you have your first failed hearing test.


Yes,it is understandable that you have suffered hearing damage, but could you please tell me what frequency it has occurred at? Jets produce a rather highish white noise kinda sound, this is not 30hz, and rock concerts generally produce ~125db full range, hence, no one has still proven me wrong that very low frequencies need to be much louder than higher ones to cause damage.


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

*Re: Subwoofer*

Loud sound has been scientifically proven to cause hearing damage. Period. Now lets get back on topic to help the OP, or take the arguments to another thread.


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

*Re: Subwoofer*

As far as safe listen levels are concerned here is a chart and a link. :T 
Please be careful with your ears!!
http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9735


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

*Re: Subwoofer*



mdrake said:


> As far as safe listen levels are concerned here is a chart and a link. :T
> Please be careful with your ears!!
> http://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=standards&p_id=9735


oh, the numbers I were listing weren't weighted, measured with a Termlab sensor, flat response down to single figure hz. So thats probably where a misunderstanding. I think we should stay on topic now.


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## chkngreez (May 11, 2010)

I started this thread because of a heated debate that had hijacked another thread. I'll start off here with my .02. While music levels of any kind at high SPL can be dangerous, the lower frequencies are much less damaging to your hearing than the higher frequencies. IMO and only IMO, the eardrum doesn't have to work nearly as hard to process the lower spectrum of sound, therefore high SPL at low frequencies is much less likely to damage your hearing as a much higher frequency @ the same SPL. I look forward to hearing everyone else's take on this subject.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

chkngreez said:


> I started this thread because of a heated debate that had hijacked another thread. I'll start off here with my .02. While music levels of any kind at high SPL can be dangerous, the lower frequencies are much less damaging to your hearing than the higher frequencies. IMO and only IMO, the eardrum doesn't have to work nearly as hard to process the lower spectrum of sound, therefore high SPL at low frequencies is much less likely to damage your hearing as a much higher frequency @ the same SPL. I look forward to hearing everyone else's take on this subject.


wait, you agree with me?!?! cool
but yes, there are many people who will agree that lower frequencies don't cause as much damage.
I have lots of proof of this, but try prove me wrong!


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

This differs from person to person. I for example have very sensitive hearing and find that 70 db is plenty. 

Get your ears irrigated and you will be amazed at how much louder stuff is. Everyone knows how loud is too loud for them. Therefore it's a personal question but it's important when entertaining others to follow safety standards though. Just because you may have tougher hearing doesn't mean everyone else does remember the statistics classes. If you are all alone you can listen at any level, but when the kids or friends show up you should always respect their tolerance. We as philes no the importance of good hearing and have a responsibility to protect people from hearing damage.

IOTW don't be the jerk who cranks up the stereo too loud whenever people are watching a movie. Same thing goes for a live gig.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> This differs from person to person. I for example have very sensitive hearing and find that 70 db is plenty.
> 
> Get your ears irrigated and you will be amazed at how much louder stuff is. Everyone knows how loud is too loud for them. Therefore it's a personal question but it's important when entertaining others to follow safety standards though. Just because you may have tougher hearing doesn't mean everyone else does remember the statistics classes. If you are all alone you can listen at any level, but when the kids or friends show up you should always respect their tolerance. We as philes no the importance of good hearing and have a responsibility to protect people from hearing damage.
> 
> IOTW don't be the jerk who cranks up the stereo too loud whenever people are watching a movie. Same thing goes for a live gig.


I'm not sure I like the idea of ear irrigation, sounds painful, but it seems like a good idea. Yes, it is all up to the people, and some people have strange sound tolerances, my mother can listen to loud music if she's playing it, but she will put earplugs in when going to a theater, strange, but it's up to her. 

BTW, what does IOTW mean? But yes, if someone asks it to be turned down, it should be. But how do theaters deal with this problem? Because some movies are played at a level which IMO would be to loud for children and some other people, but yet if grandma went to see the film, it might not be loud enough for her?


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

jimjim said:


> I'm not sure I like the idea of ear irrigation, sounds painful, but it seems like a good idea. Yes, it is all up to the people, and some people have strange sound tolerances, my mother can listen to loud music if she's playing it, but she will put earplugs in when going to a theater, strange, but it's up to her.
> 
> BTW, what does IOTW mean? But yes, if someone asks it to be turned down, it should be. But how do theaters deal with this problem? Because some movies are played at a level which IMO would be to loud for children and some other people, but yet if grandma went to see the film, it might not be loud enough for her?


IOTW(In other words). If done right ear irrigation is quite pleasurable, but there are a lot of folks that do it wrong. Finding a good movie theater these days requires patience because they just aren't all what they used to be. Fortunately for us we found a good one which happens to get the sound right and the food right.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> IOTW(In other words). If done right ear irrigation is quite pleasurable, but there are a lot of folks that do it wrong. Finding a good movie theater these days requires patience because they just aren't all what they used to be. Fortunately for us we found a good one which happens to get the sound right and the food right.


Yeah, can't the eardrum be perforated if you have some quack do it?
The local theater seems to be the best around here, large screen, comfy seats, good food, great sound etc, not just a cattle farm like the chain cinemas.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

*It is the position of Home Theater Shack that any use of SPLs in the 130dB and above range needs to be considered dangerous to hearing. There is much documentation of the damage that is caused with high levels, and the OSHA document above does not even list safe exposure times for levels above 115dB (15 minutes per day).

Warnings on the matter cannot be over-emphasized, and any suggestion that such levels can be safe must be considered suspect.

We don't know all there is to know about the effects of high levels, nor about individual differences in response to very high levels. There is current research exploring some potential physiological and chemical changes in the body due to high SPLs that are far more complex than the simple mechanical damgage to the ear that has been believed to be the mechanism for hearing loss. There may indeed be more effect at low frequencies than previously believed, and considering that we are artificially producing low frequencies at much higher levels and for much more sustained periods than ever experienced in nature, caution should be the rule.

Such caution is the official position of Home Theater Shack.*


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I can tell you that I suffer hearing damage at age 48 as a result of listening to loud music for 25 years... mostly the 130-140db stuff back in the eighties. I have tinnitus as a result of loud music and my hearing suffers considerably in both ears... as much as a 20db hearing loss... specifically above 6000Hz.

As a teenager and young man, you could not tell me anything. I listened for years not realizing the damage it was doing... and ignored the warnings. I can tell you that there will no doubt be many of these young men that are listening at these absurd levels wearing hearing aids before they are the age of 60. 

I would ere on the side of caution.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

How does this transfer to someone using hearing aids? I'm 35% deaf, due to not enough cilia (nerve hairs) in my Cochlea (that snail looking thing) around to pick up the vibrations.. Does that mean they're more easily overloaded, or that they need louder SPLs for stimulation to begin with? At any rate, my hearing aids can definitely send over 80db regularly in order to keep me hearing more accurately, so the 80db rule must at least be in a gray area for my case


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

I agree with being cautionary. The industrial engineers at OSHA make their rules based on hard scientific data.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I was also in a band and I know that I did some damage. I can't say for sure but I would think that even low freq's will do damage if loud enough. I had front row seats to a Ted Nugent concert years ago and it was so loud that my ear's were ringing for a week and even made it hard for me to sleep. I am lucky it went away because that would drive me nuts if it were constant. I will say that when my wife yells at me it must be at a very high freq because I don't hear her..:rant:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hearing aids are in them selves an amplifier so what may read as 80db on an SPL meter may be less or even more than that depending on what the hearing aid is set to and the level of hearing loss you have. That is a tough call and I dont really know if there is a set rule for hearing aids.

I know that myself if I listen to music or movies at more than 95db for more than half an hour my hearing starts to go downhill and certain upper mid frequencies cause an almost buzzing sound in my head.


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## chkngreez (May 11, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> I can tell you that I suffer hearing damage at age 48 as a result of listening to loud music for 25 years... mostly the 130-140db stuff back in the eighties. I have tinnitus as a result of loud music and my hearing suffers considerably in both ears... as much as a 20db hearing loss... specifically above 6000Hz.
> 
> As a teenager and young man, you could not tell me anything. I listened for years not realizing the damage it was doing... and ignored the warnings. I can tell you that there will no doubt be many of these young men that are listening at these absurd levels wearing hearing aids before they are the age of 60.
> 
> I would ere on the side of caution.


Sonnie, I'm going to use you as an example, because you note the hearing loss above 6000Hz. From what research I have done on this subject, this is a very typical area for people to lose sensitivity to sound. Does it seem like a coincidence that a vast majority of people who suffer hearing loss lose their upper threshold? I'm in no way saying anyone should listen to music @ unreasonable volume, it's just that the low frequencies tend to cause less long term damage. IDK, just my opinion.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

jimjim said:


> I've been in 150db cars and I own a 142db car, my hearing is fine, damage only occurs with higher frequencies at those levels, if I had a car that did 160db on music (and some people do) my hearing would start to get damaged, but not instantly. And if it does much higher than 165db you get nose bleeds and ruptured eardrums.
> My hearing is BETTER than people I know who have their iPods up really high (and iPods can only do 100-110db), youtube search Steve Meade, his Tahoe does 157db on music, he's had it like that for ages, and his hearing is fine.
> 
> /rant
> ...


Thats why OSHAcomes in to the work place and tests the enviroment to see if ear plugs are required wheater it be a low or high frequency. Gotta call ya on your comment because it's been proven that over exposure to levels over 90dbs for extended periods will damage hearing, period.:T


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

We tested each other in high school at the high freqs, and among our class there was quite a bit of variability. Some could hear to 17-18khz, while most were in the 14-16khz range. Our teacher was around 12khz. My friend's wife is an audiologist researcher and she says her field is expecting a huge BOOM in business due to the younger crowd's use of headphones at high volumes. Transients are not the real issues, the tissue fatigues like any other body tissue, and when that occurs it is susceptible to damage. Ringing is an indication of impending damage- not a warning to blatantly ignore. Like anything else regarding the human body, whether it is dietary, exercise, etc., moderation is the general rule to follow. Enjoy the music :dumbcrazy:


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

I personally know someone that was subjected to loud, low frequency sounds in the military that has lost most of his hearing as a result of those low frequencies. And yes he was wearing hearing protection because that is the law. So there is your proof...:neener:


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Your post sparked my memory: an older neighbor down the street has severe hearing loss from being in the artillery division while in the US Army. I hardly talk to him, and it's difficult when I do because I have to shout constantly. He doesn't seem like the type to have been to rock concerts or have been a headphone listener either.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> Hearing aids are in them selves an amplifier so what may read as 80db on an SPL meter may be less or even more than that depending on what the hearing aid is set to and the level of hearing loss you have. That is a tough call and I dont really know if there is a set rule for hearing aids.
> 
> I know that myself if I listen to music or movies at more than 95db for more than half an hour my hearing starts to go downhill and certain upper mid frequencies cause an almost buzzing sound in my head.


Yeah I was referring to the end result of the hearing aid amplification- I'm fairly sure mine are capped at 90db, so they won't go louder than that, and they will also filter out droning noises so machinery isn't much of an issue either, but common sense tells me that they'll top 80db quite frequently considering that I'm 35% deaf; Unaided, 80db sounds more like 75db to me (that's how it works, right? I know decibels are exponential anyways..), making it necessary to amplify normally safe levels above 80db in order for me to hear things properly. Do I scale my personally hearing damage threshold a bit higher than normal due to less sensitivity? I almost think it would make sense that the small amount of nerve receptors I have should make them more sensitive to overload, but it could be exactly the opposite for all I know


ironglen said:


> Your post sparked my memory: an older neighbor down the street has severe hearing loss from being in the artillery division while in the US Army. I hardly talk to him, and it's difficult when I do because I have to shout constantly. He doesn't seem like the type to have been to rock concerts or have been a headphone listener either.


A man I work with was active in the Artillery Division during Desert Storm, and he's the same way, only you can still have a normal conversation with him with his level of loss (actually, his hearing might be similar to mine, only on different frequencies for the damaged areas). Funny thing is it's only his left side, as he stood to the right of the cannon- If you talk from his right you don't notice any problems, but if you talk from the left he might not even know you're there


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

buggers said:


> I personally know someone that was subjected to loud, low frequency sounds in the military that has lost most of his hearing as a result of those low frequencies. And yes he was wearing hearing protection because that is the law. So there is your proof...:neener:


I got a whole forum full of examples about how low frequencies (20-50hz) don't affect your hearing as much as high ones. What was the frequency and db level that this guy was exposed to?



bambino said:


> Thats why OSHAcomes in to the work place and tests the enviroment to see if ear plugs are required wheater it be a low or high frequency. Gotta call ya on your comment because it's been proven that over exposure to levels over 90dbs for extended periods will damage hearing, period.:T


Yes, it may but they all measure it A weighted, which drops off at 1000hz and is at -20db by the time it reaches 100hz and is -40db at 30hz. Now, the levels that I am talking about are measured *without* any kind of weighting, it is *flat* response down to <10hz. Measured by a Termlab, a pressure sensor that is the most accurate and trusted bass measuring device, and can read levels >170db with accuracy.



chkngreez said:


> Sonnie, I'm going to use you as an example, because you note the hearing loss above 6000Hz. From what research I have done on this subject, this is a very typical area for people to lose sensitivity to sound. Does it seem like a coincidence that a vast majority of people who suffer hearing loss lose their upper threshold? I'm in no way saying anyone should listen to music @ unreasonable volume, it's just that the low frequencies tend to cause less long term damage. IDK, just my opinion.


A good point here, peoples reactions to lower frequencies don't drop off as easily as reactions to higher ones.



ironglen said:


> Your post sparked my memory: an older neighbor down the street has severe hearing loss from being in the artillery division while in the US Army. I hardly talk to him, and it's difficult when I do because I have to shout constantly. He doesn't seem like the type to have been to rock concerts or have been a headphone listener either.


Explosions are different, it is a half cycle pressure wave that has a gigantic peak.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

jimjim said:


> I got a whole forum full of examples about how low frequencies (20-50hz) don't affect your hearing as much as high ones. What was the frequency and db level that this guy was exposed to?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish, but all of us have had experiance with hearing loss from loud all frequency material or know someone that has. I know all about the termlab measuring equipment and understand what your saying but just to be blunt without trying to cause argument, no matter the volume of any sound and environment or source if it's too loud it will eventually cause hearing damage.:T


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

bambino said:


> I'm not sure what your trying to accomplish, but all of us have had experiance with hearing loss from loud all frequency material or know someone that has. I know all about the termlab measuring equipment and understand what your saying but just to be blunt without trying to cause argument, no matter the volume of any sound and environment or source if it's too loud it will eventually cause hearing damage.:T


yes, if it's too loud it will cause damage, but what I'm trying to get across to the people on here is that if the research done by OSHA was measured with no weighting, the 90db limit would become closer to 130db+ at frequencies around 30hz because of the 40db drop that A weighting reaches at 30hz. And I think people will find that the OSHA measures with tones, not with music, something that plays at, say, 130db on a 30hz tone, will only do 125db or less playing music, so this allows for even more looseness in the measurement.
Also if it's all frequency full range material, you can't say which frequency is causing the most damage. I believe the frequencies causing the most damage are the higher ones.


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## chkngreez (May 11, 2010)

Were really arguing semantics here. There is some amount of proof that lower frequencies are somewhat less damaging to hearing. That being said, I would say rap music played @ 140 dB in a car would be slightly less damaging than a heavy metal song played @ 140 dB. I'm not saying that is a safe listening level on either account. I'm sure we all agree on that.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

chkngreez said:


> Were really arguing semantics here. There is some amount of proof that lower frequencies are somewhat less damaging to hearing. That being said, I would say rap music played @ 140 dB in a car would be slightly less damaging than a heavy metal song played @ 140 dB. I'm not saying that is a safe listening level on either account. I'm sure we all agree on that.


Agreed! :T


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

chkngreez said:


> Were really arguing semantics here. There is some amount of proof that lower frequencies are somewhat less damaging to hearing. That being said, I would say rap music played @ 140 dB in a car would be slightly less damaging than a heavy metal song played @ 140 dB. I'm not saying that is a safe listening level on either account. I'm sure we all agree on that.





bambino said:


> Agreed! :T


x3, I'm sure someone else will come and say you are wrong though.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

jimjim said:


> x3, I'm sure someone else will come and say you are wrong though.


:nono::yikes::huh:


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

I calibrate my listening level in the following manner:

1) Increase the volume at regular intervals until the ears begin to bleed.
2) Turn it up 2 notches.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

drbrousters said:


> I calibrate my listening level in the following manner:
> 
> 1) Increase the volume at regular intervals until the ears begin to bleed.
> 2) Turn it up 2 notches.


:coocoo::rofl:


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

drbrousters said:


> I calibrate my listening level in the following manner:
> 
> 1) Increase the volume at regular intervals until the ears begin to bleed.
> 2) Turn it up 2 notches.


:rofl: now thats the way to do it.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

megha said:


> 150db at 30hz


Aww, come on. That's no fun. 150db @ 20hz is where the fun is at.


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

I went to see an audiologist who told me there is nothing wrong with my ears :neener:...
He did say my hearing was all screwed up, but not my ears.:whistling:

I not only LIKE it loud, I NEED it loud.:hsd:


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## CT_Wiebe (Jul 5, 2009)

drbrousters -- We are talking about your hearing, *not* your ears. You "need it loud" only because your hearing is already "screwed up" :huh:.

Satellite Acoustic Noise testing sweeps the range of 10Hz up to 200Hz. I have seen it bend and break stiffened aluminum panels. And that is in the range of 140dB to 175dB, for 10 minutes maximum (at the location of the unit under test). The soft tissue of a human body is even more susceptible. It's the pressure wave that does the damage.

I have to agree with lcaillo and Sonnie.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

CT_Wiebe said:


> drbrousters -- We are talking about your hearing, *not* your ears. You "need it loud" only because your hearing is already "screwed up" :huh:.
> 
> Satellite Acoustic Noise testing sweeps the range of 10Hz up to 200Hz. I have seen it bend and break stiffened aluminum panels. And that is in the range of 140dB to 175dB, for 10 minutes maximum (at the location of the unit under test). The soft tissue of a human body is even more susceptible. It's the pressure wave that does the damage.
> 
> I have to agree with lcaillo and Sonnie.


I don't trust these testing people. people with cars that do 157db don't have any problems with any panels, sure they flex, but they don't break. And same for their windows, surely even safety glass isn't as strong as aluminium, they flex a lot too, but never break. 
People have sat in cars that do say 165-170 (SPL cars designed purely to play a single note as loud as possible) (with ear protection, if it even matters at that level) and got out with bleeding noses, I'm sure if they stayed in for long enough they would collapse their lungs or cause internal bleeding, but at that level it is so incredibly unpleasant that nobody is at risk.


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

For all who need to know:

My comments were intended only for humor. There is no doubt in my mind that loud noise causes hearing loss (which is why most symphonic musicians are hard of hearing in their later years, as well as the few rock and rollers who live that long. The rock and roller thing was also meant as humor)...
BUT...
I like it loud. Really. I think it enhances the experience and is how it's meant to be. All those who prefer AV at lower volume, great. Your experience may in fact preserve your hearing.

Reminds me of the story of the 2 guys who were discussing alcohol, tobacco, and chasing women. The 1st says:
"Celebacy and abstinance of booze and cigars will make you live longer."
The second says:
"I don't think so. I just think avoiding those things makes life feel like it."


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## arande2 (Dec 25, 2009)

My input:

I will keep the music at a 65-70dB (A-weighted) average level most of the time and then I might turn it to 100dB for a few minutes sometimes (peaks of 115-120dB). I do have slight ringing in my ears, which I dislike. When I was younger, I could hear and see really well. It seems my senses have degraded a lot, and I'm not even out of adolescence!

Some of it may be genetics, but I am betting a lot of it is experiential. I play in a symphonic band and my playing (tuba) alone reaches 105dB at my ears. Then the whole band will hit 120dB during the very loudest accents.


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## vicdog (May 5, 2009)

*Re: Subwoofer*

HUH? Did you say something?


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

arande2 said:


> My input:
> 
> I will keep the music at a 65-70dB (A-weighted) average level most of the time and then I might turn it to 100dB for a few minutes sometimes (peaks of 115-120dB). I do have slight ringing in my ears, which I dislike. When I was younger, I could hear and see really well. It seems my senses have degraded a lot, and I'm not even out of adolescence!
> 
> Some of it may be genetics, but I am betting a lot of it is experiential. I play in a symphonic band and my playing (tuba) alone reaches 105dB at my ears. Then the whole band will hit 120dB during the very loudest accents.


I would invest in a set of ear plugs to wear while playing in the band. You will be better off later in life just doing that. Now did I play in a band, Yes, did I wear ear plugs, No, but as the say some do and some teach.:dumbcrazy: I think I listen to things too loud still to this day but now I think it is because of the damage I did earlier in my life and now haveing to turn it up louder just to hear it the way I like. Earlier in this thread ear irregation was mentioned but how do you find out if the ear doctor does it right since to be honest I never heard, no pun intended, of it....:huh:


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## ojojunkie (Jun 23, 2010)

Personally I like to play loud as much as my ears can endure but I'm afraid that my neighbors will not be happy that. I might get kicked out from my apartment. :rolleyesno: 

So, when I hear loud thumping on my door I think that's when I can say that's really loud. :bigsmile: :rofl2:


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

CT_Wiebe said:


> drbrousters -- We are talking about your hearing, *not* your ears. You "need it loud" only because your hearing is already "screwed up" :huh:.


Are you really unable to see my last entry as an attempt at humor? :doh: 

I have been involved in the medical profession for almost 40 years and am well aware of the effects of noise on the human ear. 

CHILL! or...please consider attending study sessions at "The Insitute For the Humor Impaired."

Oh...
And by the way...
I LIKE it loud, but you needn't worry. I won't invite you over when I have it turned up.


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## sonic terror (Sep 29, 2010)

Protect those ears. Tinnitus is a life-lasting pita.


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## q2bon2b (Aug 5, 2010)

drbrousters said:


> I calibrate my listening level in the following manner:
> 
> 1) Increase the volume at regular intervals until the ears begin to bleed.
> 2) Turn it up 2 notches.


LOL. Almost spit out my coffee laughing. Good sense of humor there . . . I hope.:rofl2:

And regarding other posters' comments,

Even if loud level at low freq imparts lesser damage to our hearing level relative to high freq, there is still some damaging impact. And if the effect is cumulative and progressive, the true picture (or hearing) will not be obvious till decades later.

But the beauty or bane of our society, to each his/her own. We can ignore well-meaning advice and live the life we deem fit (within legal limits, of course) and suffers the consequences/or not later.

Let all have a reunion right here 25 years from now and exchange stories about our hearing then. Bet you there will be some interesting stories there.:yikes:


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

sonic terror said:


> Protect those ears. Tinnitus is a life-lasting pita.


Pita is excellent with Hummus. :innocent:


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

q2bon2b said:


> ...Let all have a reunion right here 25 years from now and exchange stories about our hearing then. Bet you there will be some interesting stories there.:yikes:


Yes, but I doubt I'll be able to hear them. 
...or is that :huh:

All kidding aside, it kinda works like this for me:

I DON'T like it at low levels. Maybe if I had a small fortune into my equipment, but I can't afford that...so, I have it loud. In Home Theater, it really adds to the "experience." 
After years of this, I now have to turn it up MORE because of hearing loss. I get it. Really, I do...but...I LIKE it loud or not at all...and I REALLY like it.

It's not enjoyable when it's just audible or I'd forget the Home Theater and go directly thru the TV. If all I care about is the story or the photography, then that's acceptable; which is seldom the case. Even a TV show is better with surround sound. I can enjoy the story regardless, but stereo sound increases the pleasure and surround maximizes the experience...and surround sound is MEANT to be loud. 

Think not? Go to a movie theater. If you find one that shows films with the volume at conversational levels I will stand corrected. I've never been to one. In fact, Home Theater is probably the reason people don't go to movies in the numbers they once did. Usually, action flix bring in the biggest crowds and action flix are loud. If you ask people why they go there instead of just renting the disc, they would likely say, "It's just not the same." Querried about the difference, most (eventually) would recognize audio as the reason. Not just the sound, but the volume and the auditory "picture" created by surround processing.

Movies are just as popular, but, if you can have a similar experience in your home and watch whatever/whenever you want, why go to the movie theater? In the past, you had to go there in order to experience the audio techniques that enhanced the film. Not now.

2 things are definitely meant to be loud:
1) Rock and Roll.
2) Home Theater.

For those who can enjoy either at low volumes, you are amazing! I'm not being sarcastic, I truly mean that. It is simply beyond me to have that experience.

I've said more than enough, but I'm (obviously) passionate about it. 

I also have hearing loss.

Whether they are directly related is suspected but not certain. Most of the men in my family have had hearing loss later in their lives and most have never had much exposure to loud music or theater. In the meantime I’ll say what I’ve said here before, it reminds me of this old joke:

2 guys were discussing alcohol, tobacco, and chasing women. 
The 1st says:
"Celibacy and abstinence of booze and tobacco will make you live longer."
The second says:
"I don't think so. I just think avoiding those things makes your life seem longer."

Well, listening at lower levels may in fact preserve your hearing, but it removes much of the pleasure intended when the audio was produced…at least it does for me. I'd rather enjoy it and save the money I'd spend at the theater for hearing aid batteries. :wave:


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## Trick McKaha (Oct 7, 2009)

Here's how to tell. Play the live Voodoo Child from Electric Ladyland. If that audience guy says that thing at the end of the lead before your wife does, turn it up louder. Repeat as necessary.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

For movies I like to listen at about 84-86 db with spikes over 100 db. Music on the other hand is usually a steady 95 -100 db for pleasure listening....AKA Rocking Out! :T


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Is 35 to 45 considered loud on the master volume to the point of causing tinnitus?


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

How loud is too loud?

to "11" :heehee:


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Depends on who you ask. My wife would say 30 but I can sit comfortably at 18.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Anything over 60db in my opinion is waaay too loud.


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## hyghwayman (Jan 15, 2008)

I can't hear you, print louder please lddude:


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