# Need help understanding my new Elite VSX-21THX.... THANKS!!



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Happy Holidays -

I just got a new Elite VSX-21THX to replace an older pioneer AVR. I wanted it so I could avoid having my blu-ray player kick out the sound via multi-channel out... I don't want my AVR's bass management and speaker settings to be by passed. 

So, I have the VSX.

I am confused about something... probably because I am more a scratch the surface home theater guy... any how, in the manual for my AVR lists standard modes for listening in surround sound... this includes everything from DTS-ES to Prologic II Movies, etc.

It also lists a bunch of THX surround settings such as THX Surround EX.

But, I was surprised to find that DTS-HD and True HD were not on the list.

Under the "choosing input" section of the manual, it does state that the receiver will light-up specific lights when decoding DTS-HD and True HD... but, in a page note it states the following:

This receiver can only play back Dolby Digital, PCM (32 kHz to 192 kHz), DTS (including DTS 96/24) and WMA9 Pro digital signal formats. The compatible signals via the HDMI terminals are: Dolby Digital, DTS, WMA9 Pro, PCM (32 kHz to 192 kHz), Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, DTS-EXPRESS, DTS-HD Master Audio, SACD and DVD Audio (including 192 kHz). With other digital signal formats, set to ANALOG (the MULTI CH IN and TUNER).

I guess in the end I'm really confused about DTS-HD and True HD. I was under the impression that they were surround modes themselves... but the way the manual reads, this particular receiver can receive and decode them, but can not play them (does it somehow process them into some other mode, such as Prologic II Movies for playback through the speakers??)??????

I'm lost... I need some help. Did I buy the right thing? Or am I just missing something here... are there any AVRs that receive a DTS-HD signal and process and play it back as a DTS-HD signal? Or do all of them do what the VSX-21THX does?

Here's a link the the manual: http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/StaticFiles/Manuals/Home/VSX-21TXH_OperatingInstructions0512.pdf

I really appreciate anyone's help or explanation.

Thanks, 27dnast


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Currently, only Blu Ray Players and Blu Ray Discs offer those codecs. If you have a Blu Ray Player which bitstreams via HDMI, your AVR can decode True HD and DTS HD.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Yep, I understand that... I have a BD 390. 

So, my receiver can decode the HD codecs... I understand that... but these "codecs" are then played through a different surround mode??? My blu-ray player is currently hooked up to my old AVR with multi-channel out/inputs. I was under the impression that my receiver then passed through the sound and, in essence, we were listening to (for example) a True HD surround mode.

Does this make sense?


I'm lost.

So, True HD isn't a surround listening mode? Does an AVR take the lossless codec of something like True HD only to strip it apart and play it back in some other kind of surround listening mode?


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Yes the Pioneer will decode the new HD codecs and you must use a HDMI cable to Bitstream the HD formats across for the Pioneer to decode, it will show up on the display as Dolby True HD & DTS HD MA, but you need to set the BD player to output bitstream for this to work.

You can then add post processing like THX modes if you would like but the HD codecs are the lossless tracks that you find on BD.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I believe that reciever has a "auto surround" choice and if so you could leave it there and it will choose for you depending on what codec the disc is useing.


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are both forms of "lossless" audio codecs that just efficiently pack up the massive lossless audio file into a smaller package (it seems you probably understand that). What you are essentially doing by bitstreaming the DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD is having the receiver unpack or unzip the codec to provide the full lossless audio signal to be sent to your speakers.

Now, if you want the signal to be untouched by post processing, then the setting you will want to enable is a pure or direct mode on the Pioneer. That will send the signal directly to your speaker without any processing. However, for movies I do suggest a little amount of signal processing being done because that way the receiver can apply it's speaker distance correction, dB trim adjustments, and any other auto-calibration processing. Some receivers have the ability to to apply those adjustments to their direct mode, too.

Not sure if this helps, but continue to ask questions here until we answer your question properly!


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I am pretty sure that direct mode does not bypass the Mcacc room correction but pure direct does.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I believe that is correct that Direct maintains MCACC. I really think that you will enjoy True HD and DTS HD. Having no compression like DD and DTS, they really sound fantastic.

Again, just make sure your BDP is set to bitstream out and you will receive the codecs. I usually add THX over True HD and DTS HD as opposed using Direct or Pure Direct.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Jon Liu said:


> Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are both forms of "lossless" audio codecs that just efficiently pack up the massive lossless audio file into a smaller package (it seems you probably understand that). What you are essentially doing by bitstreaming the DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD is having the receiver unpack or unzip the codec to provide the full lossless audio signal to be sent to your speakers.
> 
> Now, if you want the signal to be untouched by post processing, then the setting you will want to enable is a pure or direct mode on the Pioneer. That will send the signal directly to your speaker without any processing. However, for movies I do suggest a little amount of signal processing being done because that way the receiver can apply it's speaker distance correction, dB trim adjustments, and any other auto-calibration processing. Some receivers have the ability to to apply those adjustments to their direct mode, too.
> 
> Not sure if this helps, but continue to ask questions here until we answer your question properly!


No... this helps a lot. It's what I was getting at... I just didn't know how to word it.

Out of curiosity... which signal processing selection is the most preferable? I do have a 7.1 set-up... but I'm okay with running 5.1 too.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I believe that is correct that Direct maintains MCACC. I really think that you will enjoy True HD and DTS HD. Having no compression like DD and DTS, they really sound fantastic.
> 
> Again, just make sure your BDP is set to bitstream out and you will receive the codecs. I usually add THX over True HD and DTS HD as opposed using Direct or Pure Direct.
> ...


So you're suggesting not adding in any processing...


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I add THX over True HD and DTS HD. As always, go with what sounds best to you. Standard True HD and DTS HD sound great on their own. I agree about not using Pure Direct if it means that Room EQ and Bass Management are disabled.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I've done some reading on the THX Movie setting that can be applied... it sounds like it's really awesome.

Do all the features really work (as advertised?????????)?????

I know you might think that i could just go listen... but I'm waiting on some cables so I haven't hooked my new AVR up yet. I'm curious though!


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## LinusInPW (Dec 28, 2009)

I was actually trying to test how DTS-HD sounded on the VSX-21 and both the salesperson and I were perplexed on how to get this to work.

So is what we are saying here that DTS-HD will never flash or be spelled out on the front of the reciever - and that you can add additional sound modes to it ( ie DTS-HD plus THX ).

Sorry if these questions sound stupid - upgrading from a HK 635 which always clearly states the surround mode automatically on front depending on source passed to it ( ie selecting DTS on bluray will flash DTS in big letters across reciever ). I'm trying to make a desicion between the VSX-21 and Onkyo 707 and main reason is audible differences of bluray audio codecs.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
So long as your BDP is configured for bitstream out, your Pioneer should receive and decode DTS HD.
With many BDP's it has to be configured for HDMI bitstream out. Moreover, many older BDP's do not offer bitstream out.

So long as your BDP is up to date, the Pioneer should detect the codec and it should show up on the main display as DTS HD or DTS MA.
Cheers,
AD


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I have even downloaded the manual for your AVR. You should have no problems with DTS HD showing up on your display so long as the BDP is configured properly. By pressing Auto on the remote and you should get DTS HD. I am surprised that the Salesperson is having an issue demonstrating this.
Cheers,
JJ


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