# Can I connect a



## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Hello all,

Can I connect an JVC RX-718V to my Onkyo AVR (model TX-NR838)? Found the JVC a friend gave me for helping them move that I completely forgot about. Been using it in the garage to test it out and on some new drivers I got and it has a decent amount of power. It says 'Stereo Receiver' on it, not sure if this can be integrated with an AVR. Don't believe it can be, yet wanted to be sure. Can the JVC be connected to the Onkyo to power the surround speakers?

Appreciate any advice


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Why not? Use the appropriate "pre out" RCA jacks on the Onkyo to the "video" or "TV sound" input pair on the JVC. OTOH, I do not see why you would bother as the amps on the Onkyo are probably at least as good.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Kal's right, I highly doubt the JVC would have any more power than your current Onkyo. Would it work? sure but no real advantage. If anything I would use it to power your mains rather than the surrounds.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> Kal's right, I highly doubt the JVC would have any more power than your current Onkyo. Would it work? sure but no real advantage. If anything I would use it to power your mains rather than the surrounds.



Thanks Gentlemen 

Reason for my concern was I was told you couldn't connect two AVR's. Granted this was coming from a salesman so like most I've had experience with probably not accurate. 
Yes. The Onkyo has a much better amp and I wanted it to power my front stage. With it driving 3 speakers it would be delivering about 110-120 RMS watts (test bench on 5 channels is 101 watts RMS) and wanted to lighten the load it's powering a bit. Use 5.1 and 7.1. Normally do 7.1 but took down the Rear surrounds while I'm building the bookshelves that will replace my current surrounds. They will have two 6.5 and 1'tweeters in each and will need more power. 

To connect the two I connect the preouts of the surrounds SL, SR on the Onkyo to the
the "TV Sound" on the JVC?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

No one ever drives all channels full out. I see no reason to bother adding this amp.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Kal Rubinson said:


> No one ever drives all channels full out. I see no reason to bother adding this amp.



Could you clarify on "No one ever drives channels full out" please?

My understanding is no matter how hard you drive them if you're connected to 5 channels on my AVR for this example the RMS watts is 101. When 7 are connected it's 86 watts. It doesn't matter what the volume is at (excluding point where distortion comes) each channel is provided an RMS value or 101 for 5 (or 86 for 7). If you have the volume at 1 or 85 the 101 watts and 86 watts per channel remains a constant. Now you will have to reach a certain volume level for 101 and 86 to be obtained but it's not near full out as I understand it. 
That's beside the point for my reason to add it yet was curious on what you meant


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

TomFord said:


> Could you clarify on "No one ever drives channels full out" please?
> 
> My understanding is no matter how hard you drive them if you're connected to 5 channels on my AVR for this example the RMS watts is 101. When 7 are connected it's 86 watts. It doesn't matter what the volume is at ...................


Ah. That is where you go wrong. 

First, the output power is directly related to the input signal level on each channel. If the signal is lower (less info, quieter sounds), less output is required and less output is made. This leaves more available in the PS for the other channels. Note that the maximum possible output per channel is higher when you use fewer channels.

Second, no signal source(s) other than on a test bench supply maximum input signals to all channels at the same time. It is always louder on one channel or another and most are driven at very low levels.

The number you quote are test levels, not under listening conditions.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Ah. That is where you go wrong.
> 
> First, the output power is directly related to the input signal level on each channel. If the signal is lower (less info, quieter sounds), less output is required and less output is made. This leaves more available in the PS for the other channels. Note that the maximum possible output per channel is higher when you use fewer channels.
> Second, no signal source(s) other than on a test bench supply maximum input signals to all channels at the same time. It is always louder on one channel or another and most are driven at very low levels.
> ...



Yes the numbers are from test benches, but I've also tested quite a bit with my meter. 
Was wrong in how I wordedicated I feel. For example let's say you have to turn the volume to 55 for it to reach (under 5 channel load) 100 watts RMS. The dynamic ratings will spike non stop for the most part regardless the circumstances based on what I've read. 

Yes, (let's say channel A and B) agree that A will be delivering more audio than B, more watts at a certain instance. But not ever more than the 110 that my AVR will deliver to 5 channels. It will provide say 85 watts to channel A while B is only receiving 60 watts. Say the center channel is A which handles all dialog often needing more power than the other channels. Aside from being efficient, and sending only what's needed It treats all channels the same. All 5 are as equal loads, doesn't play favorites by giving A 150 and B only 110. Don't believe Ohm's law would let it happen


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

TomFord said:


> Yes the numbers are from test benches, but I've also tested quite a bit with my meter.
> Was wrong in how I wordedicated I feel. For example let's say you have to turn the volume to 55 for it to reach (under 5 channel load) 100 watts RMS. The dynamic ratings will spike non stop for the most part regardless the circumstances based on what I've read.
> 
> Yes, (let's say channel A and B) agree that A will be delivering more audio than B, more watts at a certain instance. But not ever more than the 110 that my AVR will deliver to 5 channels. It will provide say 85 watts to channel A while B is only receiving 60 watts. Say the center channel is A which handles all dialog often needing more power than the other channels. Aside from being efficient, and sending only what's needed It treats all channels the same. All 5 are as equal loads, doesn't play favorites by giving A 150 and B only 110. Don't believe Ohm's law would let it happen


I am sorry to say that I find your explanation hard to understand. The issue boils down to the fact/observation that, off the test bench, no movie or music source will ever drive all channels fully and simultaneously.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Kal Rubinson said:


> I am sorry to say that I find your explanation hard to understand. The issue boils down to the fact/observation that, off the test bench, no movie or music source will ever drive all channels fully and simultaneously.


Interesting. Why don't you think a amplifier wouldn't deliver equal distribution to the connected channels?
My reference to Ohm's law is because if you have 2 of the 4 variables which are Volts, Amps, Watts, Ohms the equation of the law is able to be calculated. We know what the Ohms are as well as the voltage. Amperage is easy to calculate as well if you don't know it. My AVR delivers 30 volts, into 8 ohm loads, therefore the other variable of amps is 3.75, and watts are 112. If the voltage is lowered and ohms remains the same, the relationship of the other 2 factors will always be equal to one another. 

Whether you disagree or not, highly recommend the Ohm's law app that's free in the Google Play Store


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

TomFord said:


> Interesting. Why don't you think a amplifier wouldn't deliver equal distribution to the connected channels?


Simply because real-world signals never provide full drive simultaneously on all channels.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Kal is talking about the distribution of sound in actual program material. His points assume Ohm's law, and he is very well versed in basic electronics, I assure you, Tom. The ACTUAL use of power is never evenly distributed unless one is driving everything as mono at the same levels, or in test conditions.

He would not begin to disagree with Ohm's law, but it is not what he was talking about at all.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

lcaillo said:


> Kal is talking about the distribution of sound in actual program material. His points assume Ohm's law, and he is very well versed in basic electronics, I assure you, Tom. The ACTUAL use of power is never evenly distributed unless one is driving everything as mono at the same levels, or in test conditions.
> 
> He would not begin to disagree with Ohm's law, but it is not what he was talking about at all.


I see. Just wish he'd elaborate more on how nothing can be fully driven. Should of stated I was discussing it under the AVR setting at All Stereo or Full Mono. 

Could you please answer the question I started the thread about? How do I connect the JVC to the Onkyo? Appreciate any assistance as always


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## dgmartin (Oct 29, 2011)

Each channel of the power amp section has (or should have) the same gain and deliver the same output voltage driven by the same input voltage. Your Onkyo receiver has pre-outs. If you want to verify that the input voltage to each channel of the power amp section is not equal all the time and for each channel as Kal is saying, measure the voltage at each of the pre-outs of your receiver under a variety of scenarios. You will see that the 3 front channels are getting most if it, peak and average. If pre-out voltages are different, so will be the outputs (constant amplifier gain). BTW, if you are building bigger surrounds, they will likely be more efficient than the smaller ones they are replacing. They should consume less power for the same output level.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

TomFord said:


> Could you please answer the question I started the thread about? How do I connect the JVC to the Onkyo? Appreciate any assistance as always


See my first reply.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Kal Rubinson said:


> See my first reply.



Thanks Kal.

To clarify by "appropriate preouts" you mean the preouts of the speakers I want to powere? e.g. FL & FR. Reason I'm being too thorough & hate to admit yet honesty always works best, is because I blew an AVR when I was trying the different brands when I first got my system by a rookie/dumb move


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

TomFord said:


> To clarify by "appropriate preouts" you mean the preouts of the speakers I want to powere? e.g. FL & FR.


Yes.



> Reason I'm being too thorough & hate to admit yet honesty always works best, is because I blew an AVR when I was trying the different brands when I first got my system by a rookie/dumb move


Should have no relationship to the chosen channel unless you connected a subwoofer output to a wimpy speaker.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Yes.
> 
> Should have no relationship to the chosen channel unless you connected a subwoofer output to a wimpy speaker.


Kal, you the man. 

May I make donation that would go only to you? PM me if you do reply. That aspect shouldn't be on open threads in my opinion. Either way is cool.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Yes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sigh. I tried to bi-amp a rear surround with another amp I had with the AVR off but not even unplugged. 
Yes, in that instance, idiot = Me
Was week 2 into home audio..... doesn't matter, dumb mistake. Live and learn. Worry about the things you can control. After I fried her, couldn't control a thing. 

Kal, can I make donation that would go directly to you? PM me if you reply regarding $


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

TomFord said:


> Kal, can I make donation that would go directly to you?


No, thank you.


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