# pre/pro recommendations?



## Subw00er (Oct 6, 2013)

I am looking for a new av preamp and am wondering if anyone here can help me! Here is my current setup which has served me well over the years. I mostly listen to movies/watch TV, but Ido some stereo listening once in a while:

Outlaw 990
5x Outlaw monoblocks (using balanced inputs at the moment
AppleTV
Apple mac mini
xbox
ps3
speakers - magnepan 1.7 surround and dynaudio center and sub300's
JVC DILA RS1 Projector

My 990 preamp power supply died so I've been limping along on an old yamaha RX-V657 receiver. I am looking to replace it and modernize the audio side of my system. One big upgrade will be the ability to switch HDMI, which I dont do now. I mostly use the Appletv and MacMini as my source so I am looking for something that is modern and complements my system well.

I'd really like to spend less than *$1500 but I'll go to $2000* if there is a good reason to. In my experience, there are diminishing (real world usage) returns after that level of prepro. I am a long time audiophile and can have a critical ear, but 9 times out of 10 I am just casually listening. To be honest, I cant tell a huge difference between the outlaw and the yamaha receiver I'm using temporarily.

I am still researching the new gadgets but the idea of airplay seems like I might use it - wireless or ethernet connectivity too, but I dont really need these things I guess. I would like to keep the balanced inputs on my monoblocks. I normally dont play with eq and sound settings a lot, I'm usually just on dolby pro logic.

Hopefully that gives enough to go on.. Thanks!


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

There is much discussion but my personal thoughts are to simply get a receiver with pre outs and use it like a pre pro. The big advantage to this is you get way more good features than a pre pro will for far less money. Good Room EQ being one of the bigger ones. 
In the last 7 years technology has gotten so good that even the mass market receivers will have the same quality of sound as any pre pro costing many times more. 

For the money this Onkyo 818 is really hard to pass up on.
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Ch-THX-Certified-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html


----------



## mpompey (Jan 5, 2007)

Have you taken a look at the Integra Pre's? The 60.5 should be able to handle what
you are giving it to play with.


----------



## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Or, if you can be persuaded to use a comparable receiver with preamp outputs, you might consider the Denon X4000.

Note that D&M will only honor their warranties if you purchase from an authorized dealer, but don't go by their advertised prices. D&M only allows list prices to be published. You'll be quoted a _much_ lower price if you call them on the phone.


----------



## Subw00er (Oct 6, 2013)

I think what I'll just do is get the Outlaw and see what its like. Its cheap enough I guess. I can always unload it, losing a hundred or two, and get something more robust. I wont really use all the bells and whistles, so I think this may be the best option for me.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> There is much discussion but my personal thoughts are to simply get a receiver with pre outs and use it like a pre pro. The big advantage to this is you get way more good features than a pre pro will for far less money. Good Room EQ being one of the bigger ones.
> In the last 7 years technology has gotten so good that even the mass market receivers will have the same quality of sound as any pre pro costing many times more.
> 
> For the money this Onkyo 818 is really hard to pass up on.
> http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Ch-THX-Certified-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html


That is what I would do too.


----------



## Subw00er (Oct 6, 2013)

As a follow up, I just ended up just buying the 975 pre/pro because it was cheap and I could demo it and return if I didnt like it. Connection wise its a bit more limiting and I cant hook up as much as I expected to be able to, but it is nice and small. I cant tell a difference between it and the 990 sonically. I think I'll keep it for now! Thanks for everyone's input.


----------



## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I don't use any of the bells and whistles that end up on the mid to upper end receivers except analog pre-outs. And really hate having to pay for things I don't want so I was also going to recommend the 975.

I know you've only had this a short time but I'm curious, are there things that you really like about the 975? Really dislike?


----------



## Subw00er (Oct 6, 2013)

nova said:


> I don't use any of the bells and whistles that end up on the mid to upper end receivers except analog pre-outs. And really hate having to pay for things I don't want so I was also going to recommend the 975.
> 
> I know you've only had this a short time but I'm curious, are there things that you really like about the 975? Really dislike?


Hi Mark. Welp, overall I dont REALLY like or displike anything about the 975 so far. I'm critically listening right now in stereo/sub mode. I think it might be slightly better than the 990. It seems to be a bit fuller sound, softer, but not less accurate. Thats really splitting hairs though, it pretty much sounds the same. Maybe if I was a/b'ing it would be more obvious, but its too painful for me to do that and actually kind of pointless. 

I was kind of hoping to use all four hdmi, as well as the component and svideo inputs but its looking like I can only use four?! It wont let me select the right audio/video inputs to make everything work in the setup menu. That sort of sucks and not sure why it has this limitation. I couldnt do it on my 990 either so I guess I'm not missing anything.

Some small things.. The front knob is unusually hard to twist, feels wrong. The input select and processor modes are slow to switch. The display is boring, but I'm used to that and it does show what mode is selected through little speaker icons so I can make it out across the room. I like that. I like the blue light near the power button.  I like how it matches my 2200 monoblocks visually. I like the on screen menu, even though its from the 80's but it sort of sucks how the content playing in the background is muted/hidden and not under-layed. There are video settings, but I cant see the video while adjusting it?!! Sort of stupid. I dont know why it has video processing settings btw, I can do this in my projector, and I dont really want my pre/pro messing with my video signal.

The reality of this device is that its basically an inexpensive and small prepro with just the features you need for stereo and HT listening, and its great for that. I dont miss the gadgets because I use an appletv and mac mini for content and network connectivity - a much better user experience than any pre/pro will provide. I also dont need the mic for audio balancing, I dont like what those processing things do to the audio typically, and I can set my own distances manually (which is what I ended up doing when I used the mic on the 990 anyway). My good friend has the Tact with YG acoustics, so I'm familiar with high end processors/setups.

I'm happy with my little maggy/dynaudio/outlaw setup. I bounced back and forth between various dynaudio gear and processors before settling on these. Its a great blend of performance and value. My friend's system is upwards of $150K and to be honest I dont really see the point in spending that much. His may be 95% of perfection, while mine is 80%. I dont think 15% better is worth $144K.  This is a crazy hobby!! :help:

The 975 good enough to not be annoying and thats pretty much my litmus test these days. Its been a painful hump to overcome - not getting too critical about my stereo. I struggled for years for that perfection, moving speakers 1 deg, upgrading cables, reading incessantly, spending gobs of cash.. What you realize is that its really easy to get to 70% of perfection, getting to 85% takes some planning, work and money, and getting beyond that is just so painful and expensive its not worth it unless you have the means, room and enjoyment level to do so.

So, the 975 stays for now!


----------

