# Need help, first home theater on a budget ($2500 for audio and TV)



## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

I have been visiting this forum for a couple of years now, but this is my first post. I bought my first house last year, and I am finally to a point where I am ready to build a system.

I am hoping to get some good advice on building my first quality 5.1 setup on a budget. I did some research and put together a “baseline” system below. I would appreciate any feedback on this system and its components, as well as any thoughts on possible substitutes or other suggestions.

Budget: $2000 - $2500 for the speakers, receiver, and the TV. $500-$1000 for other misc, (Component stand, cables, speaker stands, etc). Total cannot exceed $3000.

Room: A smallish den, 14x11, with the TV being centered on one of the 14 foot walls.

Primary uses: Gaming, sports, music, and movies (in that order). 
TV: Vizio XVT553SV (refurbished, includes wall mounting bracket) $1256.00

Receiver:	Denon AVR-1911 $399.99

Speakers: 4 x Infinity P162 $84.99
1 x Infinity PC350 (center) $149.99
1 x Infinity PS38BK (sub) $199.99

Electronics Total: $2,344.94

Speaker stands x 4: $100
Cables and wire: $100
Component cabinet: $199
Blu-Ray player: $99

Misc total: $498 

GRAND TOTAL: $2842.94


Notes: 

Audio quality is more important to me than video quality, since my primary uses are sports, gaming, and music. Video quality still matters, but not as much.

The room is small, and is near other living spaces. I also live in a neighborhood where the houses are close together. So I don’t really need towers, or a massive sub, leaning towards bookshelves.

I am always leery of HTiB, for the obvious reasons. I would consider it though if I could demo it first.

I prefer bookshelves to sat/sub combos, because of how high you have to set the sub crossover. Also not as good for true 2.0 stereo listening. Again, would consider if I could demo first.

TV needs to be flat panel and wall mounted (not DLP) because of the size of the room. Will sacrifice some video quality to get a larger screen, prefer 50 or larger.

Prefer new to used (warranty, etc), but would consider buying used if I could find it from a reliable source (ie not craigslist / ebay).


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It looks like you have a pretty good plan of action there and I am a big fan of Vizio. The one choice I might reconsider is the AVR-1911 at $399 Dollars.

For the same amount, you could get a Marantz SR5005 (799 MSRP) from Accessories4less and it adds Preamp Outputs. This might be important to you in the future should you use a bigger Room and or want more power. Without Preamp Outputs, adding an Amplifier is pretty much impossible. Also the 5005 offers Audyssey's more powerful MultEQ XT. Note you can get both the B-Stock for 399 or an A-Stock from AC4L for 50 Dollars more.

Another choice would be the Onkyo HT-RC180 (1049 MSRP) for $349 which is an absurd value. It would give you THX Post Processing, Internet Radio and other Networked Features, Preamp Outputs, and much more. The only real downside is if you are interested in 3D as it is HDMI 1.3 whereas the other 2 are HDMI 1.4. The RC180 is pretty much identical to the TX-NR807 with just some minor differences. It is in another class of Receivers available at an Entry Level Price.
Cheers,
JJ


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks for the reply, and the reccomendations on receivers. That is probably one of the most confusing parts of the process. 

Anything else you dont like about the Denon? Other than the lack of pre-outs?

I am pretty sure I want to stick to HDMI 1.4. Not thinking 3D right away, but dont necessarily want to rule it out....

Also, any thoughts on the sub? I had a few people tell me I may be better off with a different sub?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

ptsawyer said:


> Thanks for the reply, and the reccomendations on receivers. That is probably one of the most confusing parts of the process.
> 
> Anything else you dont like about the Denon? Other than the lack of pre-outs?
> 
> ...


Hello,
The biggest issue I have with the Denon is the lack of Preamp Outputs and the fact there are some much better values like the Marantz. The 1911 is an Entry Level AVR and with 400 Dollars you do not need to get one if you go to the right places. As for the Subwoofer, I do not have a great deal of experience with Infinity Subwoofers. I almost universally recommend either HSU, SVS, eD, and other Internet Direct Brands as the price to performance ratio is off the charts. If on a super tight budget, I usually recommend the Dayton Sub120 from Amazon for around 150 Dollars.
JJ


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I'd also vote for ED or Dayton (from parts express) depending on which direction you wanted to send your budget.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

Better response to follow..onder:


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

This 55" Vizio for $899

Monoprice wall mount for $42

That free's up $300.

This Yamaha RX-A700 with Pre-Outs (IMO a MUST have for future upgrade flexibility) for $399. 

So

Four 362's at $800

Center at $150 (same)

Yamaha RX-A700 at $400 (same costs, plus pre-outs)

TV: $950 including mount (- $300 vs your listed option)

BR player at $100 (same)

Cabling: $100 (same)

Cabinet: $200 (same)

Gets you to $2700.

Leave $300 for a sub... BIC H200?


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

You could also just use the 162's for surround. So that is $210 (speakers and stands). Frees up $200 more towards a sub. So say ~$500.


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks for the suggested system.... gives me a good amount to think about.

Thought: Are the 362s too much speaker for the room? Remember, this is going in a smaller 14x11 den.

Also, Id love to get more thoughts on the receiver. As a relative newbie, this is the part causing the most confusion in my mind...


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> Thanks for the suggested system.... gives me a good amount to think about.
> 
> Thought: Are the 362s too much speaker for the room? Remember, this is going in a smaller 14x11 den.
> 
> Also, Id love to get more thoughts on the receiver. As a relative newbie, this is the part causing the most confusion in my mind...


Realistically speaking there is no "too much speaker". The 362's will be the single biggest SQ improvement (that and now you have a few more bucks for a sub) you can make by a large margin. 

There is no sense in picking up Denon's entry level receiver when you can get something like the Yammy that I listed with Pre-outs for the same $$. If you never use the Pre-out feature that is fine. But if you ever need them the Denon will have just transformed into a waste of $$.

Where do you live (closest major city/state)? It may be worth while to hit Clist for a sub and maybe even a receiver. It can't hurt. A guy one street over from me picked up a $1200 SVS sub for $400 on Clist and the thing looks almost new.


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

Thanks for the advice.

It seems that most are saying I can do better than the Denon-1911 for the price, so it looks like I will continue to explore that area.

I will demo the 362s and the 162s and compare and see. I was more or less ruling out towers off the bat, given the size of the space and the fact that I wont be able to "crank it up" very often, given the proximity of my den to other rooms in the house (and the neighbors). Maybe tower fronts are a good idea.... less $$$ tied up in stands.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The P362's would be a stellar choice. However, I would absolutely not use it with the Denon you were considering. The Marantz would do a far better job at driving them as they are not the easiest to drive speaker. The Yamaha would work as well. However, the 5005 offer Audyssey MultEQ XT which is a fantastic Room EQ and is HDMI 1.4. Even better, it is available for 50% off.

I would still jump on the $1000 Dollar+ Onkyo. Even if interested in 3D, many 3D Components offer Dual HDMI Outputs so that you can connect one to the TV and one for the AVR. As there is not a great deal of 3D Content out there and it is not gaining traction in HT, I would put the added power and features of the Onkyo first. For 349 it is an absurd value.
Cheers,
JJ


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> 
> It seems that most are saying I can do better than the Denon-1911 for the price, so it looks like I will continue to explore that area.
> 
> I will demo the 362s and the 162s and compare and see. I was more or less ruling out towers off the bat, given the size of the space and the fact that I wont be able to "crank it up" very often, given the proximity of my den to other rooms in the house (and the neighbors). Maybe tower fronts are a good idea.... less $$$ tied up in stands.


Towers are going to sound better at equal volume vs the bookshelves you are looking. I wouldn't worry about it.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The P362's would be a stellar choice. However, I would absolutely not use it with the Denon you were considering. The Marantz would do a far better job at driving them as they are not the easiest to drive speaker. The Yamaha would work as well. However, the 5005 offer Audyssey MultEQ XT which is a fantastic Room EQ and is HDMI 1.4. Even better, it is available for 50% off.


Agreed: If 3D isn't a concern that Onkyo looks like a great choice at $350. Add another $50 to your sub budget. 

For $550 you can get stellar sub, OR SUB(S). Yep, two. Thinkaboutit...


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

This is great... I am getting a lot of solid advice here.

What would you reccomend for a sub? Again, consider the other speakers and the size of the room....

I know a sub is a big driver of the "power" behind home theater, but again, I dont need to over do it... I have lots of other uses for the money as well. What subs would you reccomend for the $200 to $300 range?


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> This is great... I am getting a lot of solid advice here.
> 
> What would you reccomend for a sub? Again, consider the other speakers and the size of the room....
> 
> I know a sub is a big driver of the "power" behind home theater, but again, I dont need to over do it... I have lots of other uses for the money as well. What subs would you reccomend for the $200 to $300 range?


Look at the BIC PL200. Around $330. I liked the H-100 version BIC put out for what it is and the $$ it costs.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

Also Parts Express has a 15" 240 watt sealed sub for $319 shipped.


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

Any thoughts on the tv? That one I pulled from a hat with little research. Would love some suggestions, if I can trim that below 1000, that's more $$ for audio.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

What size screen are you looking for and what type of lighting control do you have in your room?


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The P362's would be a stellar choice. However, I would absolutely not use it with the Denon you were considering. The Marantz would do a far better job at driving them as they are not the easiest to drive speaker. The Yamaha would work as well. However, the 5005 offer Audyssey MultEQ XT which is a fantastic Room EQ and is HDMI 1.4. Even better, it is available for 50% off.
> 
> I would still jump on the $1000 Dollar+ Onkyo. Even if interested in 3D, many 3D Components offer Dual HDMI Outputs so that you can connect one to the TV and one for the AVR. As there is not a great deal of 3D Content out there and it is not gaining traction in HT, I would put the added power and features of the Onkyo first. For 349 it is an absurd value.
> ...


I am with JJ on the Onkyo or Marantz and accessories4less.com was both at an outstanding price.


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

Dale Rasco said:


> What size screen are you looking for and what type of lighting control do you have in your room?



I am hoping for 50 or larger. The room has 2 windows with dark curtains, the lighting will all be lamps. Note that my primary uses will be gaming and and sports, then movies, so a lot of the time the lights will be on.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
As for a TV, I would check out Best Buy and see if they have anything on Clearance. I am really fond of Vizio's Plasma TV if they are still making it. Also, if you can find a Sony KDL-55EX500, I have been beyond pleased with it. The 60EX500 would also be great.

If you can find any of Panasonic's Plasma's On Sale, I would jump on those. Especially the now discontinued VT25 Series. If you want a giant Display for very little money, Mitsubishi's DLP Microdisplay's are an incredible value. You can get a 65 Inch Model for well under 1000 Dollars. However, many only want Panels.
Cheers,
JJ


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

I actually have an older Samsung DLP and I like it. Im pretty sure my wife was set on a flat panel. I am assuming that is what I am going with for now, but those mitsubishis do yield a lot of screen for the money.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

personally I would go with plasma. I am a fan of Panasonic and you can get the 50" 1080P from amazon for $850. Some will argue that plasma has burn in issues especially for gaming, but that hasn't been an issue for several years due to anti-aliasing technology available since 2004. Plasma has better black levels and much richer colors than LCD and LED's in the same price range plus you don't have the annoying motion blur inherent in LCD/LED technologies. You have to sacrifice a little on the size compared to the Vizio, but I think you will be much more satisfied with the picture quality of the plasma.

http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-VIE...SCJM/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1311369483&sr=8-2


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I personally prefer Plasmas on the whole. I got my KDL-55EX500 as a free Replacement for my KDS-55A3000 SXRD Microdisplay. What is insane is that it was Replaced after they preformed the 1000 Dollar plus Optical Block Repair 12-30-2010 and a month later I Emailed Sony Listens and they offered my a free LCD if I mailed in the Serial Number on the back of the SXRD. Prior to them Replacing the OB, I called Sony countless times imploring them to just replace it, but they would not budge. It was the 2nd OB in 10 Months.

Now I have a perfectly working SXRD that I also somehow got a 2nd Replacement Lamp from BB for (only are supposed to get 1 Lamp Replacement) right after the OB Replacement and a free LCD. However, the EX500 is a fantastic LCD that honestly made me change my stance on LCD's. It combines a fairly high end Panel with CCFL Backlighting which I greatly prefer to Edge LED Backlighting. The best is Full LED Backlighting with Local Dimming, but this is only found on the most expensive Models.

These days, most LCD's are Edge LED's where Flashlighting is a real issue with the Backlighting only on the Edges with tunnels focusing the light all over the Panel. While CCFL's are not as thin, they do provide even Backlighting. The EX500 is quite similar to the KDL-52XBR9 which was a much lauded TV and also CCFL.
Cheers,
JJ


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

So, I have done a lot of speaker research over the past few days. Ive been convinced to upgrade the fronts to towers. This brings my 5.1 budget for speakers to $1000.

2 x infinity 362 $400
2 x infinity 162 $170
1 x infinity PC351 $200
Sub (TBD) x $200

That bring my total for speakers to about $1000. Anything out there that can top this? Or should I just pull the trigger? Thanks to everyone for all of your help.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> So, I have done a lot of speaker research over the past few days. Ive been convinced to upgrade the fronts to towers. This brings my 5.1 budget for speakers to $1000.
> 
> 2 x infinity 362 $400
> 2 x infinity 162 $170
> ...


That would be hard to improve upon (excepting sub). You _could_ get two of the 162's and wire them in parallel for the center channel and mount one above and one below and toe (slant) them into your listening position. I have seen others do this and love it. 

I, and others I believe, STRONGLY encourage you to up the sub budget. I think another $150 will make a very appreciable difference. We've given you solid advice all along, this being no different.

What city do you live in / near. A craigslist search may yield a sub... I know it has paid off in spades for others from personal experience.


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

jinjuku said:


> That would be hard to improve upon (excepting sub). You _could_ get two of the 162's and wire them in parallel for the center channel and mount one above and one below and toe (slant) them into your listening position. I have seen others do this and love it.
> 
> I, and others I believe, STRONGLY encourage you to up the sub budget. I think another $150 will make a very appreciable difference. We've given you solid advice all along, this being no different.
> 
> What city do you live in / near. A craigslist search may yield a sub... I know it has paid off in spades for others from personal experience.


I was thinking about stretching my budget a hair and gettting the HSU STF-2. I can get that for $350. Would that be sufficient? It seems pretty universal that my sub budget needs to be higher. Any other reccomendations in the $300-$350 range?


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> I was thinking about stretching my budget a hair and gettting the HSU STF-2. I can get that for $350. Would that be sufficient? It seems pretty universal that my sub budget needs to be higher. Any other reccomendations in the $300-$350 range?


Yep, the same recommendation that I have been consistently making: What major city do you live in/near. A Craigslist search could yield sub woofer gold.

I would tell you to consider the BIC PL 200 for ~$330 or the 15" sealed Parts Express for $319.


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## ptsawyer (Jul 22, 2011)

I live near Dayton, Ohio.

I have search craigslist a few times in the last few weeks, but havent had a lot of success. Sorry, didnt mean to come off as dense, I just somewhat prefer new to used (warranty, etc). However, I would be willing to jump on the right deal...


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> I live near Dayton, Ohio.
> 
> I have search craigslist a few times in the last few weeks, but havent had a lot of success. Sorry, didnt mean to come off as dense, I just somewhat prefer new to used (warranty, etc). However, I would be willing to jump on the right deal...


It's always worth a look even if nothing pops up....


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If you could stretch your budget to the HSU VTF-2 MKIII, you will be literally blown away. The MKIII is almost identical to the much more expensive VTF-3 MKII with the only difference being 50 Watts less power.
Same Enclosure, etc. It offers true output at 20hz which is something hardly any 500 Dollar Subwoofers can do. Actually, many 1000 Dollar Subwoofers cannot output real SPL's at 20hz.
Cheers,
JJ


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Youngstown, Ohio is the location of SVS. If you're headed that way at some point, you should really take a look at SVS as being able to pick up your product and save on shipping may tip the value proposition clearly in their favor.

Either way, I'll call and schedule a visit to their showroom if you can make the trip.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> Any thoughts on the tv? That one I pulled from a hat with little research. Would love some suggestions, if I can trim that below 1000, that's more $$ for audio.


For less than one thousand I would look into a Mitsubishi DLP. That will give you the most bang for your buck. Outside of that, I'd look into a plasma considering your lighting situation.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

ptsawyer said:


> Any thoughts on the tv? That one I pulled from a hat with little research. Would love some suggestions, if I can trim that below 1000, that's more $$ for audio.


I would keep hitting a site like dealnews.com for their TV deals. They had a 50" 720P LG Plasma for $680 shipped the other day as an example.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I still think that Vizio would be a great call as they really make a quality product. I greatly prefer them to LG in my experiences. I would again recommend seeing what Best Buy has On Sale or Closeout. Sometimes the deals are astonishing. I would also go to the Magnolia part of the Store and see if they have any Panels on Closeout.
Cheers,
JJ


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I still think that Vizio would be a great call as they really make a quality product. I greatly prefer them to LG in my experiences. I would again recommend seeing what Best Buy has On Sale or Closeout. Sometimes the deals are astonishing. I would also go to the Magnolia part of the Store and see if they have any Panels on Closeout.
> Cheers,
> JJ


What JJ said. I picked up my Denon 4308Ci for $429. That receiver still lists north of $1K and was $1.6K in it's prime.


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