# Correcting & preventing HDMI hand shake problems



## louisp

_The following was provided to me by a Denon USA AVR Technician._

*Situation*
If you experience sudden unexpected *complete*, (not partial), loss of audio & video, video only or audio only the cause may be an HDMI hand shake problem. 

*Possible causation*
With the advent of super fast powering up media (source) devices such as a cable box or satellite receiver data can arrive at an AVR and or HDTV too fast. Think of it this way. You have a garden hose with an attached nozzle. When the water is turned on before triggering the nozzle the water in the hose is backed up. Once the nozzle is opened the backed up water rushes out at an above normal force. This is what happens when a source device using an HDMI cable powers up before the AVR and or TV. The data backs up in the HDMI cable. Once the AVR and or TV are completely powered up the oncoming rush of data may cause a disruption, i.e. HDMI hand shake issue.

*Correcting a hand shake problem*
Disconnect the source devices HDMI cable from the AVR and from the AVR to the HDTV. If the HDMI cable is routed from the source device directly to the HDTV disconnect the HDMI cable from the HDTV. Wait 10 to 20 minutes then reconnect the HDMI cables. *IMPORTANT!* Power up the AVR and HDTV completely *before* the source device. In most instances this should resolve the hand shake issue.

*Preventing a hand shake issue from re-occurring*
To prevent future hand shake issues ensure the AVR is fully powered up before the source device (sat recvr, cable box, etc.). If the HDMI cable is routed directly from the source device to the HDTV ensure the HDTV is fully powered up.

Better yet power up your AV devices in the following sequence - HDTV, AVR then cable box or satellite receiver. This process is very simple if powering up manually. When using a remote you can achieve the same result by programing in power up time delay for the source device.

You may need to consult the maker of your AVR, HDTV, source device and remote control for brand specific information.


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## eugovector

I think this is one of those situations in which a non-technical answer is actually more confusing. Can someone please explain the water hose analogy in terms a non-idiot can understand?

What they seem to be describing is buffering...in a cable. April fools?

It has nothing to do with the cable. It is simply a matter of the HDMI receiver ICs being ready to pick up the source. The water hose is not a very good analogy.


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## Theresa

Its all nonsense. Denon obviously doesn't hire the "sharpest tacs."


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## pxj

not sure if a AVR has anything to do with it. I had a problem where it's a direct HDMI connection between the cable box and the TV. weird flickering of sound and video and turning either the cable box or the TV off didn't fix the problem or even a power up in the sequence shown in Louis's example. The only way I was able to fix the problem to date was to re-seat the HDMI cable. Replacing the cable didn't do it. I think my problem is different and has something to do with the feed from the cable box or the signal to the cable box. Just weird and doesn't occur a lot but when it does, its aggravating.


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## louisp

pxj said:


> not sure if a AVR has anything to do with it. I had a problem where it's a direct HDMI connection between the cable box and the TV. weird flickering of sound and video and turning either the cable box or the TV off didn't fix the problem or even a power up in the sequence shown in Louis's example. The only way I was able to fix the problem to date was to re-seat the HDMI cable. Replacing the cable didn't do it. I think my problem is different and has something to do with the feed from the cable box or the signal to the cable box. Just weird and doesn't occur a lot but when it does, its aggravating.


I had partial audio loss from my previous satellite HD-DVR. The problem was in the HD-DVR. Note how I was carefully used the term "full loss" in my example. Over the past 13 years I can't count the number of mystery problems encountered. As you said "aggravating". Hope your issue is resolved without too much headache.

Thanks for commenting.


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## pxj

Thanks Louis, it's annoying that's for sure... But since Time Warner has replaced the cable box 3 times, cleaned up the feed, and also boosted the cable feed to our neighborhood I still think it's the Scientific Atlanta box since it only does it during a TV show.


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## joeydrunk

Theresa said:


> Its all nonsense. Denon obviously doesn't hire the "sharpest tacs."


I don't think it's nonsense, those instructions on powering up from tv to source device is a good rule of thumb to follow, it's helped me out numerous times.


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## Jungle Jack

I hope it proves to be of help to those who are in need.


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## lcaillo

Theresa said:


> Its all nonsense. Denon obviously doesn't hire the "sharpest tacs."


I completely disagree. The timing of device power has proven to be a very significant matter in HDMI handshake problems. I have solved dozens of problems with this very process.


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## WinSpecToR

Hi guys, I'm having this problem now where the audio is gone and I only have the picture. This is happening on mulitple devices, what is the fix?


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## 3dbinCanada

The garden hose analogy doesn't hold any water in this example.  I think what the author is trying to say is that power up sequence is important to establish good handshaking between the components. If the power up sequence is wrong, the initial handhaking that is setup may have been setup with error flags and eventually something comes along in audio or video or both that further deteriorates the handshaking resulting in a loss of signal. Always turn on the components first that take longer to establish themselves. 

A more pertinent analogy is what I experienced in programming my logitech remote. I had it programmed to turn my display on and set the input to HDMI1, turn the AVR on and switch the input to BD/HD, and turn on the bluray player and eject tray. However, the tray never ejected because the turn on time was too long. This would screw up the sequence for next time. I put a 2 sec delay in the command sequence and the tray ejects all the time now.


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## NBPk402

I have had a similar problem with my cable box... My cable box is hooked up via HDMI to my Denon 3806 which then sends the signal to my Epson 1080p. Everything was working fine and then one day I lost my video going to my projector and got the "non compliant HDMI error". I run my computer through the Denon via HDMI and I have no problem but I have only been successful running component to the Denon and then to the projector with the cable box. I also have a Samsung LCD flat panel and that receives HDMI only from the Denon without any problems. Does this sound like a parts failure on the Epson?


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## Jungle Jack

WinSpecToR said:


> Hi guys, I'm having this problem now where the audio is gone and I only have the picture. This is happening on mulitple devices, what is the fix?


Hello,
Welcome to HTS. I owned an Onkyo TX-NR3007 that exhibited the identical symptoms and amazingly having 3 HDMI Boards swapped in did not fix it. I ended up getting a TX-NR3008 from Onkyo that has been flawless in its place. What AVR are you experiencing this with?

That being said, having Audio via HDMI is a much better than the latter as you can still get the Lossless Codecs from Biu-ray Players with Dual HDMI Outputs and route the rest through the TV and run a Optical Output. That is if out of warranty.
Cheers,
JJ


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## WinSpecToR

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Welcome to HTS. I owned an Onkyo TX-NR3007 that exhibited the identical symptoms and amazingly having 3 HDMI Boards swapped in did not fix it. I ended up getting a TX-NR3008 from Onkyo that has been flawless in its place. What AVR are you experiencing this with?
> 
> That being said, having Audio via HDMI is a much better than the latter as you can still get the Lossless Codecs from Biu-ray Players with Dual HDMI Outputs and route the rest through the TV and run a Optical Output. That is if out of warranty.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Hello,

Thank you for your warm welcome. Its actually a direct connection to the TV. The speakers are still good and I believe the HDMI port (only have 1) is still good as I connected a usb to hdmi adapter from the pc and it was able to get video and audio just fine. BUT my direct hdmi port on the computer doesn't seem to be working with this particular tv, I tried another tv and my direct hdmi port works no problem. I believe this is the HDMI handshake but I'm not sure how to fix it


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## bluemax_1

Data backed up in an HDMI cable...
Well that was my amusement for the day.

BTW, to the folks (including JJ) who mentioned avrs with picture but no sound (especially/specifically Onkyo), a new problem has begun cropping up on XXX8 models of a certain age. For whatever reason, one of the relays is not clicking and you get no sound from the unit.

It's the relay that clicks when audio formats change i.e. from Stereo to 5.1 or to DSX with 7.1 or 9.1 etc.

Identifying units with this problem is simple, when the loss of audio occurs (usually on power up after the unit has been in Standby) the individual speaker icons are not lit up on the front panel. In addition, when the problem occurs, you will find menu options grayed out and non selectable. Toggling through different settings (like the HDMI RIHD settings) and power cycling the avr can sometimes restore the audio (and if your HT is quiet, you will hear the relay click just before sound is restored).

If your Onkyo has this problem, it needs to be sent in. My 5008 is going to be shipped out to a service center tomorrow.


Max


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## WinSpecToR

^ Suggestion for no AVR?


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## bluemax_1

WinSpecToR said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for your warm welcome. Its actually a direct connection to the TV. The speakers are still good and I believe the HDMI port (only have 1) is still good as I connected a usb to hdmi adapter from the pc and it was able to get video and audio just fine. BUT my direct hdmi port on the computer doesn't seem to be working with this particular tv, I tried another tv and my direct hdmi port works no problem. I believe this is the HDMI handshake but I'm not sure how to fix it





WinSpecToR said:


> ^ Suggestion for no AVR?


So let me get this straight if I can,

You're connecting a PC straight to the TV via HDMI and get video but no audio. You've tested the HDMI jack on the TV by connecting an adapter via USB from the PC to the HDMI on the TV and that works fine. You also tried using the PC's HDMI port to connect to a different TV and THAT was fine too.

Did you change any settings when connecting the C to the different TV?

I experienced the video but no audio via HDMI direct to my TV the first time I connected my laptop to my TV, but I'd forgotten to change the audio settings in my laptop. By default, it doesn't send audio on the HDMI as it was configured to use its own speakers. After I changed the audio settings in the laptop, all was fine.

If that's not it and you've already tried a different HDMI cable, as well as turning the TV on after connecting the HDMI cable and before turning on the PC, then I'm out of ideas.


Max


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## WinSpecToR

bluemax_1 said:


> So let me get this straight if I can,
> 
> You're connecting a PC straight to the TV via HDMI and get video but no audio. You've tested the HDMI jack on the TV by connecting an adapter via USB from the PC to the HDMI on the TV and that works fine. You also tried using the PC's HDMI port to connect to a different TV and THAT was fine too.
> 
> Did you change any settings when connecting the C to the different TV?
> 
> I experienced the video but no audio via HDMI direct to my TV the first time I connected my laptop to my TV, but I'd forgotten to change the audio settings in my laptop. By default, it doesn't send audio on the HDMI as it was configured to use its own speakers. After I changed the audio settings in the laptop, all was fine.
> 
> If that's not it and you've already tried a different HDMI cable, as well as turning the TV on after connecting the HDMI cable and before turning on the PC, then I'm out of ideas.
> 
> Max


Ok so heres the thing, the handshake is happening somewhere and I'm not sure where, my tv doesn't have a reset setting and the manufacturer tech support is useless. At the moment, my cable receiver is unable to get an audio signal from the hdmi while it is able to get a picture. My laptop is totally unable to detect a signal from the TV when I plug it into the built in HDMI slot on the laptop, when I connect a USB to HDMI adapter to the laptop, it works fine.


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## bluemax_1

WinSpecToR said:


> Ok so heres the thing, the handshake is happening somewhere and I'm not sure where, my tv doesn't have a reset setting and the manufacturer tech support is useless. At the moment, my cable receiver is unable to get an audio signal from the hdmi while it is able to get a picture. My laptop is totally unable to detect a signal from the TV when I plug it into the built in HDMI slot on the laptop, when I connect a USB to HDMI adapter to the laptop, it works fine.


What TV is this?

So, 
1) with your cable box connected to the TV via HDMI, you get video but no audio?
2) Your PC connected to the TV via HDMI to HDMI gets nothing? No audio OR video?
3) When you connect the PC via USB to HDMI adapter, everything works fine?

Please respond point by point.


Max


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## WinSpecToR

bluemax_1 said:


> What TV is this?
> 
> So,
> 1) with your cable box connected to the TV via HDMI, you get video but no audio?
> 2) Your PC connected to the TV via HDMI to HDMI gets nothing? No audio OR video?
> 3) When you connect the PC via USB to HDMI adapter, everything works fine?
> 
> Please respond point by point.
> 
> 
> Max


Tv is Acer AT3720A

1) Correct - Currently I have switched to component cable to get audio and video.
2) Correct
3) Yup. I also connected an ipad and iphone using the apple adapter and that works.

I also have an xbox thats running hdmi and that is working fine


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## bluemax_1

WinSpecToR said:


> Tv is Acer AT3720A
> 
> 1) Correct - Currently I have switched to component cable to get audio and video.
> 2) Correct
> 3) Yup. I also connected an ipad and iphone using the apple adapter and that works.
> 
> I also have an xbox thats running hdmi and that is working fine


Very odd behavior.

With all the different configurations, are you turning the TV on first before the other components? Or source first followed by the TV? How long have you tried waiting before turning on the different components?

The thing about HDMI handshakes is that although there are specs set down for HDMI compliance, there are small variations between how manufacturers implement them. No, there's no such thing as data getting 'backed up' in a cable as in the quote from a so-called tech at Denon. 

The thing is though, that it appears some devices will detect a new connection and then send the HDMI handshake. Other devices seem to be on a set timer where they go through their startup routine i.e. you hit the On button and the unit 1) closes the relay for Main power, powers this up, powers that up, then sends the handshake data. If something interrupts that flow or if data is not sent/received at the right time, the handshake fails.

Most new devices will automatically resend and re-attempt the handshake if it fails for some reason, and when all the devices in your chain work that way, everything operates seamlessly regardless of the order you turn them on. When there IS a problem though, you may need to change your power on sequence. Usually, you go backwards in the chain, i.e. display first, followed by receiver (if you have one), followed by source (cable box, blu ray player, htpc etc.).

You may need to try longer waits before turning on each component. For example, I can turn on all my components in any order I choose and there is no problem, but my buddy who uses a Harmony One universal controller has to have his components turn on in the reverse order I listed above, and he had to add 2-5 second delays for some of the components to ensure that the previous component was fully On and ready to receive the handshake from the next component. You may need to try waiting even longer to make sure each device is fully On and ready for the HDMI handshake from the next device.

Try connecting everything with an HDMI cable that you have used and know works fine with at least one device. Try turning on the TV first and wait till it's fully On before turning on the source device. If that doesn't work, then turn both off and then try turning on the source device first and wait till it's fully on before turning on the TV.


Max


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## WinSpecToR

Well I tried it in all sorts of different combinations and still can't get the sound back. My TV doesn't have an option to reset the hdmi and the tech support is useless.


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## WinSpecToR

Anyone?


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## snoopcat

I am having issues as well. I have an Onkyo 709 connected to an Epson 6500UB. I had an HDMI cable connecting the receiver to the Epson. One day suddently the picture went black and the sound stayed on. Projector is still on but no pic. I tried using a different HDMI cable still no pic. I then connected the Cable box and projector and now have a pic but no sound. I connected component cables from the receiver to the cable to get sound.

Of course I have not used my PS3 blu ray player because it is connected to the receiver.

It sound as if I have a handshake issue? Or a bad HDMI output on the 709 receiver.

Any ideas on how to determine which? Also on how to correct. Had the receiver for 7 months with no issues.

Any help would be much appreciated.


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