# css quartet10



## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

hello mike. I am considering building the quartet 10 build kit. I would like to resize the cube to a 16 inch box. I will be using 3/4 MDF. Will this work? If it does will the amp have to be retuned? will amount of washers differ? will poyfill be an issue
thank you ed zonder:


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

Whats the reason for wanting to resize the cab. For some reason I cant access the CSS page at the minute. In a pr system resizing the cab will alter the tune.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Hi ezee, as soon as the CSS website is up again I'll get the PR info I need and I'll do a comparison graph between the original size and a 16 inch cube.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

Here you are Mike:

APR12 specs


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Thanks Dan. :T

ezee, here is the comparison modeling. Yellow is a 18" cube and purple is a 16" cube. Same amount of weights on the PR's and the same modified 300 watt Bash amp. The smaller box gives up 3 - 5 db in the 20 to 25 hz range.


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## funky_waves (Jul 3, 2007)

By adding more weights to the passives to bring the tune back down to what the larger enclosure has you can "spread out" the output loss, you would loose 1-2db 20-35hz


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Thank you all. The reason for the smaller cube is for room placement If I can get near the same results with the smaller cube why have a large box. I,ll dampen with some polyfill and add more disc to try and get to 20hz. Once again thank you for the quick replys


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

That's the advantage of these CSS PR's, adjusting the tuning frequency from the outside of the cabinet is so easy.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

thanks mike .any suggestions are great since i,m new to this


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Try the different tuning frequencies and see which you like the best.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi Mike. Ive completed the sdx10 build.Turned out very nice. Not sure how to post pics. The inside measures 14.5 cubed. Im using 9 discs per side. At around half volume on certain low notes I get this clacking noise. Th e box is air tight any suggestion as to the cause of this. Regards ED


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

It could be a loose weight or the pr's may be reaching their limits of excursion, or even the driver. Have you listened when the noise is being produced, to try hear exactly where it is coming form.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

As Dan suggests try and determine where the sound is coming from. You now have 5 posts and should be able to upload pics. If you have a problem just send me a PM.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks guys.

It could be that the Driver is at it,s limit. But at only half volume? I,ve removed one more weight to 8 Maybe I,m expecting to much from 300 watts. I was borrowing a revel concerto 12b for a bit Ed


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> But at only half volume?


Do you mean the gain on the amp is at the 12 o'clock position?

How big is the room that the sub is in?


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Hi Mike. yes the amp i at 12 oclock, and the room is 16 by 24. I guess this is a fairly large room, to bad i only use an area of 12 by 16 to watch dvd. I,m listening to an old pop disc seem to fill the room ok.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

That's a big room for a 10" sub and I'd say it's at its limits.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks again Mike.
SO now i,ve got 8 weights , moved the sub to a wall close to a corner,still in the listening area though. Amp is at just over 12 o,clock moved the receivers lfecrosseropver to 100 hz. I don,t have any meters to check numbers, but it,s coming together, the clacking noise is gone the room feels full of deep crisp bass. Any other recomentions ?


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

You're on the right track, experiment until you find what works best.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Well guys I,m up to 10 disc per side, speaker in the sweet spot of the room, gain at 12 o,clock and still the driver klacks at certain heavy bass feed (tHE DARK KNIGHT). Would addind some polyfill be an option?Could the 16inch cube be the problem? The sub sound pretty good and tight other than that.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Did you order the kit with the sub, amp and PR's?


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## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

ezee said:


> Well guys I,m up to 10 disc per side, speaker in the sweet spot of the room, gain at 12 o,clock and still the driver klacks at certain heavy bass feed (tHE DARK KNIGHT). Would addind some polyfill be an option?Could the 16inch cube be the problem? The sub sound pretty good and tight other than that.


Adding polyfill probably wouldn't help. 

If you're hearing noises during heavy bass, that sounds like overexcursion to me -- if it's from the driver and not the PRs.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

I ran the numbers and he's under Xmax let alone excursion limits. A clack or pop sound is more likely to be the amp clipping in this case. There's only so much a 10" sub can do in a room that size.


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## Zeitgeist (Apr 4, 2009)

Mike P. said:


> I ran the numbers and he's under Xmax let alone excursion limits. A clack or pop sound is more likely to be the amp clipping in this case. There's only so much a 10" sub can do in a room that size.


Hmmmm.. When I read "clack" I was thinking of clank.. or some mechanical sound.

Wish there was an easier way to tell when the Bash amp was clipping. 

I have 2 EP4000s - and the few times I've heard them clip - I'm always quick to think it's a mechanical noise before I realize that clipping can really account for some bad/unexpected noises.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks once again guys. So I quess I need to upgrade already...lol.Or built another one. I suspect keeping the gain to half will avoid clipping.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

Keeping your master volume low will prevent clipping, keeping the gain down on the subs amp wont if you simply turn up the master volume on your processor. The gain on the subwoofers amp is for balancing, its not for limiting the amps output.

If your considering upgrading, then I would say its well worth starting with an upgraded amp. See if that solves your issue and your then happy with the result. If the more powerful amp then results in pushing the driver too hard, then look at upgrading the subwoofer itself. Using a more powerful amp is fine, just be aware you have more power on tap and monitor the sub. I think thats a logical cost effective way of walking the upgrade path if you decide you need to.

Its also worth noting that a clipping amp is at least as dangerous to the driver as over driving it with a more powerful amp. In fact, the occasional bottoming of the driver, is ok as long as you take action as you notice it, and generally it wont damage the driver unless your being silly with the volume.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

So by having the volume to high on the avr is causing clipping? I thought 95 watts rms was enought to drive 5 speakers. 

By upgrading amp to you mean the AVR or the subs BASH 300 amp?
So if I keep the volume on my AVR at a reasonable level and keep the gain on the sub amp at half or so I should be alright untill I make a decision on upgrade path. 
Thanks again


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

The master volume on the AVR simply tells all amps in the system to increase or decrease overall output. Turning it up demands more down demands less. The amps them selves will increase output as told to by the master volume control on the processor within the avr, right up until the point they simply cant give any more. This is when the amps will clip.

If your subs amp is clipping, this is the component that needs upgrading.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

ezee, if the amp wasn't clipping would you be getting enough low end SPL as it is now?


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Oh ya for sure Mike. For 300 watts it,s fine. anything past half gain it craps out. This only happen on bassy movie tracks,music seems fine. This build is similure to one of your builds other than the box size.Could it be an issue with the Bash 300?


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Sorry Mike didn,t see the top of the post . Yes this is from css quartet10 build kit


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

I tested mine in a 15' x 24' livingroom that was open to the kitchen area, The maximum output I could achieve was with the gain control at the 11 o'clock position. Try yours like that and see if anything changes.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

That,s about where mine starts to clip. I have my Freq somewhere around 120 a can play with this without distortion. We have roughly the same sized room. Are you thinking of building something bigger? 
I,m quite happy with the sound this puts out just want alittle more thump if you know what I mean

Thanks for all the help Mike


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Bigger? :bigsmile: The SDX10 went to the work out room, about 10' x 12', it pounds in there. The upstairs living room has a Mach 5 Audio IXL-15 in about 7 cu.ft. tuned to 20 hz for my wife's audio system and the TV. I have a HT room in the basement, 15' x 26', with a pair of IXL-18's each in 12 cu.ft. tuned to 16 hz and also a pair of Ascendant Audio Atlas 15's, each in 10 cu.ft. tuned to 18 hz. :hsd:

As for you wanting more thump, your choices are build another identical sub or upgrade to something bigger. Your room is just to big for a single 10" sub.


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## ezee (Jan 14, 2011)

Nice Mike... Ive got 2 peavey 22A horns I ,m going to look for some drivers and possibly build something to replace my mains. Something maybe with a powerd sub setup.Hopfully this will fill up the room abit Any suggestions?


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Building mains is tricky business involving proper driver selection and a understanding of crossovers. The best advice is to go with a proven design where someone has done all the groundwork involved. If you want input on this, post in the DIY Speakers forum, someone will make a recommendation depending on what your goals are.


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## gibroni (Sep 25, 2010)

Geez, I can't imagine that being too small a sub for his room. I have a Dayton 12" RF in a sealed box that's too small and it's providing a lot of bass in my room. I'm only powering it with a 100W Klipsch plate amp. 15X12X8 that's open to another room the same size with a staircase and open throughway to the kitchen. 

You could have made your box taller. It's not against the law to not build a cube. You could have made it 14 X 14 X 22ish. lddude:


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