# Upgrades to existing 7.1 system



## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

name is Darren, first post on this forum, if I have placed this in the wrong section please advise...

i have attached a rough, and I mean rough sketch of my living room

I am happy with my speakers, but just not happy with the sound, i believe my first weak link is my sub

basically, i have $3K to $4K to spend to improve

I believe when I signed up I had to list my equipment, if these do not show up, let me know and I can enter this information into this post...

I do not have a dedicated theater, just a living room for watching movies and TV etc...

well, i cannot figure out how to attach a PDF, so basically my living room is 15' wide and 20' long with a vaulted ceiling 12' high, three openings, 3' into the kitchen, 9' into the dining room, and 4' into hallway, wood floors, all furniture is fabric etc..(no leather), 2 end tables and 1 coffee table


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Welcome to the Shack, Darren.

Are you looking to spend $3-$4K on a sub only or to do other mods too?


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## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

$3K to $4K on overall improvements, upgrade the sub, add some acoustic panels, change out AVR to either a new 7.2 or 9.2 etc...


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## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

for example, not sure if I want to move to a 9.2 or 11.2, but I think adding another SUB would be a huge improvement, on another forum it was suggested i purchase (2) Hsu VTF15, now that would mean upgrading my AVR to a 7.2, so thinking about Marantz SR7007 or the SR6008, then thinking about adding some acoustical elements such as some panels that look like art work on the walls, etc...

I would love to have some one come and do some type of acoustical analysis, but not sure who to call, I am located in the Raleigh NC area...


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

You can add multiple subs without getting a AVR that has 2 sub outputs... Do you really want a new AVR or do you just want better bass coversge in your room? If you want more bass coverage you could just get another sub like you have now, or sell your sub and buy a new matched pair.


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## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

do I assume then, you can have a 7.2 on a 7.1 receiver?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

dertitan2 said:


> do I assume then, you can have a 7.2 on a 7.1 receiver?


Yep. +1 on ellisr63 to sell old and buy a new pair.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

dertitan2 said:


> do I assume then, you can have a 7.2 on a 7.1 receiver?


I had 5 subs years ago on a 5.1 setup... All were hooked up to a single sub out. :T


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

2 or more subs could be a great improvement if they are incorporated correctly. Many times, multiple subs will reproduce some frequencies in phase and other frequencies out of phase. Simply adjusting the sub's phase knob may or may not correct the situation because it may fix some of the out of phase frequencies, but then other frequencies that were in phase earlier, will get knocked out of phase.
Using an AVR with room correction that calibrates multiple subs independantly, may help significantly.


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## asarose247 (Jan 8, 2013)

were that my budget, I'd start with one of many readily available calibration systems and establish a base upon which to plan areas that show room for improvement. A second sub, even if the AVR doesn't do separate sub EQ, can still be tested separately and in conjunction with the first sub. Having built a few "martys" , really easy and the flat packs make it even easier.
and a second sub, easily done and if you can DIY, major bang for the buck , especially when looking for a totally capable HT ensemble.


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## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

regarding the use of a calibration system, unless they are extremely user friendly, that would be beyond my abilities in regard to audio etc...

DIY subs, been looking into these, can you suggest some brands?


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## asarose247 (Jan 8, 2013)

For DIY try the following partsexpress, DIYSOUNDGROUP and Bill fitzmaurice.com plenty of solid info and choices depending on what you need. And REW from this site has tremendous suporto here and at AVE forumsm a mike is about 100 OR SLIGHTLY MORE and so worth the learn8mg curve.


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

asarose247 said:


> For DIY try the following partsexpress, DIYSOUNDGROUP and Bill fitzmaurice.com plenty of solid info and choices depending on what you need. And REW from this site has tremendous suporto here and at AVE forumsm a mike is about 100 OR SLIGHTLY MORE and so worth the learn8mg curve.


+1 to both of these comments. 
I'd suggest having a look at the DIY route. Both for sealed simple systems as well as designs from Bill. For something a little more living room friendly I'd look to SVS, Rythmik, PSA, HSU. 
A UMIK-1 is a simple small investment in your $3k budget that will ensure every upgrade following is measured and validated as being the correct upgrade with the correct implementation.
Welcome to the forum and the hobby. I didn't see your current equipment list in your profile. Can you add it here or there?


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## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

i have put some posts out for DIY subs, waiting for some responses...

i was about set to purchase the power sound audio XV15se $899

can you suggest a comparable DIY setup?


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

dertitan2 said:


> i have put some posts out for DIY subs, waiting for some responses... i was about set to purchase the power sound audio XV15se $899 can you suggest a comparable DIY setup?



I'd say an SI 15 HT or 18 ported with a Bash 500 from parts express would be comparable.


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## asarose247 (Jan 8, 2013)

the basic needed info: room size, and maybe attached area for total ft^3. 
listening preferences and mitigating restrictions
willingness wrt extent of DIY motivation. skills, access to other help/resources
e.g. The sub you want to buy, when I build my 2 30" BF subs, my total costs were about 1100-1200$. the LP version gives more placement options, the 24" in my man cave which is under 10 x 11 points up the ceiling and REW says it performs very well wrt problems associated with "small" rooms.
I'm talking about movies like U-571, DAS BOOT, Master and Commander, Gravity, Prometheus and others from the various lists floating around. the raised foundation and 4 aura 'buttshakers" in the loveseat add plenty to the action. at listening distances of 5-6 feet, the near field is awesome. 
In my LR I have to deal with about 5K^3 total volume even though the MLP is under 11 ft. from the front sound stage. The new game TitanFall and the Xbox1 even in "only" 7.2 with the 775 , UPA 7 and 2 BASH 300's does all you could want. remember I have a ZERO WAF.
For your $900 you might consider 2 flatpack Marty's and an Inuke3000 DSP and whatever 18's people are putting in them these days. 
as you have read, dual or multiple subs are subject to a lot of placement possibilities/response improvements
and get a measuring system. Find out what your base is. 
then when you improve it, you'll look it the mirror and thank a smart guy for taking the patience, time and effort to cherry pick what works out best for what you want.
you can have it.


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## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

room size is 3572 cubic feet and 383 square feet, 3 openings (3' opening into kitchen, 6' opening into dining room, 4' opening into hallway - see attachment)

75% movies, 15% TV, 10% music

skills - none, need this to be a kit, ie use of a clamp and drill etc...


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## asarose247 (Jan 8, 2013)

thanks for the info.
I too would rather pencil it out than try to be so "neat" using some drafting program whatever.
you have lot or room for 2 subs easy which you'll probably want if you want you movie experience to put a smile on most faces.

surf around and see what people are building and where they put them wrt to their set-ups and how happy are they with the "improvements". 
DIYer's are an energetic motivated helpful bunch. I know.

most kits seem to be ported or sealed. 

some folks can provide kits that look like end tables 

go read at the BF site about some of his smaller HT plans. With your budget you might be able to get the Table Tuba or such built and finished for you, reasonably. There may even be an authorized builder near you. The bang for the buck on a FLH is tremendous and there is a need for not much power. but build it bigger , cause you know you want to . . .

I own 3 FLH's and the 4th you can read about over at AVS in the "submaximus" thread. my total cost for that beast is going to be about <$1500. Read about the testing I've recently completed OUTSIDE! Look at my response chart as analyzed and commented on by the designer. not as much overkill as some, but quite respectable.
Once I get it moved into the house, I get to start with the testing all over again. But its all good. It's a hobby. And some patience wrt to good testing protocols will help with data for , maybe an even better design. 

be an enthusiastic possibility thinker. you have a great budget and an already good surround system. 

check for an area GTG where you'll get to hear and meet other folks just a little higher up the curve. 
you'll be glad you did. but it's not a race or a competition. just a good means to help you get what YOU want.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

Dual SVS PB-2000 Subs would be nice  Run about $1500 for them. 
I have two of there previous model. Love them. Great Service...most likely even better now that Sonnie works for them


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## dertitan2 (May 1, 2014)

ok, here are my final thoughts

I am either going to purchase (2) 18" SI D2 and (2) martysub boxes and run these with a Behringer iNuke6000 w/DSP

Or

I am going to purchase (2) Dayton Audio 18" Reference Series HO Subwoofer and Cabinet Package from PE and again run these with the Behringer iNuke 6000 w/DSP

I have a message into the guy who makes the Martysub, if these are not precut and just a simple glue together, then I may have to go with the PE package, I am not handy with a saw

Thoughts????


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## asarose247 (Jan 8, 2013)

I saw your discussion with chalugaqdp over at AVS. 
You're in good company and you can have it as good and as easy as you wish.
You'll be immensely satisfied.
keep asking questions to make it as easy as possible for yourself.
But you'll still want to get REW and one of the recommended mikes. sure there's a learning curve but here and at AVS there is plenty of well distilled info to get you started.

keep folks posted.


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