# Is dlp dead?



## Deezer

I see alot of the copanies dropping their rear projection tv's witch manly use dlp technolegy?


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## BrianAbington

It may be that they are revamping the lineup and just not puting them up yet.

However...LCDs are improving alot. Its like shoping for a computer anymore.

I think that 09 will be a bit of a stagnation for 52"+ tv's...the companys will drop the dlp's...add to their lineup some really expensive 40"-52" LCDs.

And then for 2010 they will drop the price on the 40"-52" LCDs and release LCDs in the 52"-80" sizes and those will be expensive but sweet!

Book mark this page so when the 2010 lineups come out we'll see how close I was.


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## hddummy

I believe that flat panels just hold the lion's share of hype and profitability at this point. DLP is still a perfectly valid technology and is probably the best bang for your buck. Regardless of the television market, DLP is still and will likely stay a major player in the front projection market.


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## Deezer

Does dlp have the motion problems like lcd,or is that problem only found on non rear projection lcds


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## E-A-G-L-E-S

DLP does not suffer from sample and hold and also they have higher motion resolution.
DLP over LCD of any type at this point in time. If you can't find an rptv to your liking, then go plasma not LCD.
But yes, rptv's are on their way out.


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## Sonnie

I think mostly the CRT RPTV sets are phasing out... not DLP RP. They seem to still be strong... especially the LED DLP sets and the laser sets are supposed to be good from what I hear, but not sure if they are out yet.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S

The Mits. Laservue isn't out quite yet. 
I hope they found a way to eliminate SSE without losing brightness or hurting black levels and contrast.


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## solid7

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> DLP over LCD of any type at this point in time. If you can't find an rptv to your liking, then go plasma not LCD.


What a terribly subjective (and IMO, uninformed) opinion wanting to be passed off as authoritative fact! :rolleyesno:

I spent months looking for just the right set, and my OPINION would run 100% contrary to yours. However, here is where I will admit that I did not look at every set that exists - but latched on to what I felt was the best picture available for the least amount of money, out of the hundred or so sets that I did look at. My pick was, indeed, an LCD. (although picture was not the only consideration - I can't stand a set that is capable of heating my living room) It is a Samsung LNT5271F. To get any better picture than what I have currently, I felt that it would take a minimum of $1500 dollars extra (for the same size picture) which did not represent a good value to me. That was my research, and yielded the information necessary to decide what specifically appealed to me. No amount of forum opining will replace homework, since everyone has to live with their own choice, and you either learn the hard way, or complain the easy way.

We could argue all day long about which technology is better, and why we think so. But I think the simple fact is, to do so would just prove what a fanboy we were. Any rational person would agree on this point, since the plasma vs. LCD argument, at this stage, pretty much falls into the same category as Ford VS. Chevy, Playstation VS. XBOX, Manchester United VS. Chelsea, etc, etc, etc...

Long story short - your statement, while perfectly valid as a biased opinion, is otherwise, altogether without merit.



deezer said:


> Does dlp have the motion problems like lcd,or is that problem only found on non rear projection lcds


I have one of the 120 Hz sets - I have never seen a problem with artifacts or delay. I will admit that I don't have HD on my satellite, (if that makes a difference) but even with some of our favorite video games - which include some sports games - there has never, not once been an issue with the typical complaints for us. Just a nice crisp picture. I believe that high end LCD TV's became fully equal with Plasma TV's sometime late last year. (possibly even surpassing in many areas, with certain brands)

PS, and FWIW - all of the technologies have their problems and pitfalls at the moment. DLP has a color wheel to deal with, whereas BOTH plasma and LCD are subject to dead pixels or quadrants. I have seen several DLP, plasmas and LCDs fail. The plasma screens that I saw lost approximately 1/3 - 1/2 of the screen area when they failed, and the entire set had to be replaced. I was one of the unlucky ones whose LCD screen encountered dead pixels. I was able to watch it right up until the day that they took it and replaced the panel. The DLP looks like you are watching a hallucination when the color wheel gizmo goes bad. However, it's also the one set out of the three that you can probably fix yourself, if that helps at all.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S

Uninformed? 
Quite the contrary.
Opinion...yes, clearly.

I owned seven HDTV's before my current one and am quite confident that a Kuro's PQ is superior in every aspect other than brightness and a full white field to your lcd. While admittedly coming at aprice premium.
Call me fanboy of plasma if you want , but I just want quality.
Look at the bench tests, they don't lie.
I personally would take aDLP over any LCD.
*If LCD's can eliminate sample and hold then I will consider them. But not at all until then.
I also want very deep black levels that are uniform and never rise with ultra high ansi contrast and great color accuracy with great grayscale tracking.

To each their own. And as long as evryone enjoys their dispalys, that's 'all' that matters.


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## thxgoon

Is DLP dead? I don't think so.. not yet. With the proliferation of large flat panels and LCOS (SXRD) entering the front projection market at reasonable costs as well as the improvements in LCD technology, DLP is facing a lot of competition but it still has its place in the market.

As for the plasma vs whatever arguments, please keep in mind that there is a lot of misinformation floating about CE regarding these formats which was planted by the competing formats. LCD accuses plasma of burn in and heat, and plasma accuses lcd of viewing angle or response times or... could go on and on. Typical plasmas use about the same energy as a 32" tube tv we've all had for years so they won't heat a room unless poorly calibrated or running very bright still images for a long time. Every technology has it's advantages and pitfalls, but is DLP dead? I don't think so.


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## Deezer

Anyone know wy dlp doesn't have a flat panel tv set,is it becuase of the color wheel and the bulbs?Just seemed like 90% of dlp sets were rear projection tv's.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S

100% of DLP's are projection.
PJ
RPTV


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## Deezer

Thats what I thought but wasn't sure.


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## tonyvdb

Keep in mind that the newest DLP displays are using LED technology for the bulb eliminating the need for bulb replacement. I believe that Sonnie has one of the new Samsung LED DLP displays.


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## Deezer

Not trying to compare apples to oranges but I had a Home Theater magazine were they tested the Led samsung against a jvc lcd,sharp lcd,Mits.dlp rptv,sony sxrd,panisonic plasma, and pioneer plasma and it came in dead last,I was disapointed.

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/
http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index1.html


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## E-A-G-L-E-S

I own that specific issue.
I would disagree from first hand experience with four of those.(no lcd's)
I would take the Kuro first, then this years Panny.....but they used last years Panny and I'd rank that tied with the Sammy LED for second(basically tied with the SXRD, but without blur which is huge to me)
Then the Mits, then the LCD's.
-jmo

edit: for full disclosure purposes:
A. I hate lcd's
B. Those two that were tested were not near the quality of new Sammy and Sony LCD's.
C. I love 'good' plasmas, not all plasmas....I also really like DLP, except for SSE.


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## solid7

Deezer said:


> Not trying to compare apples to oranges but I had a Home Theater magazine were they tested the Led samsung against a jvc lcd,sharp lcd,Mits.dlp rptv,sony sxrd,panisonic plasma, and pioneer plasma and it came in dead last,I was disapointed.


In my opinion, that was a pretty disappointing group of televisions that were reviewed... How could a Pioneer *anything* not win in that group? :thumbsdown:



thxgoon said:


> LCD accuses plasma of burn in and heat,


Plasma sets *don't* generate a lot of heat?

All of the 50"+ sets that I looked at generated more heat than my 55 gallon fish tank. The aquarium heater (with the water at temperature) can generate enough heat in a 14' X 14' room so as to make it uncomfortable, and I can barely feel the heat of it just by passing in front of it. The plasma sets I've experienced emitted a heat that could be felt up to 30" from the set! No good for me. :thumbsdown:




E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> I owned seven HDTV's before my current one and am quite confident that a Kuro's PQ is superior in every aspect other than brightness and a full white field to your lcd. While admittedly coming at aprice premium.
> Call me fanboy of plasma if you want , but I just want quality.
> Look at the bench tests, they don't lie.
> 
> To each their own. And as long as evryone enjoys their dispalys, that's 'all' that matters.


I'm on set #5, myself.

I looked at the Kuro. It was a nice set, but I didn't find it any more spectacular than what I bought. And, at the time, it had a $1000 higher price tag. Cost vs. value came into play. For me, the extra miniscule differences didn't warrant paying for the bragging rights.

Aside from that, any rational person knows that the very best of anything just happens to be the one you like most. I could care less what any bench test says, if I don't like the way it looks, or some other aspect of it. That's why I won't make blanket statements like the one you made. If I had listened to what others told me, (in retrospect) I would have made a huge mistake.


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## thxgoon

solid7 said:


> Plasma sets *don't* generate a lot of heat?


Check out post 13 of this thread. I think it sums it up pretty well. Plasmas do dissipate heat, but it is not near as big a deal that the industry makes it out to be.


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## Deezer

I own none of those types of displays but I can say I hate the motion blur lcd produce.I went into a circuitcity and saw a top of the line sony lcd playing spiderman in highdef 1080p.I must say at first glance it looked like a virtual cartoon,thats what made me stop and look at it in the first place,I was trying to see what new spiderman animation movie came out.When the action seen stopped,the picture was the crispest most real-like picture I have seen.But very weird how the picture takes on that virtual/animation look while moving fast during action sceens.


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## lcaillo

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> Uninformed?
> Quite the contrary.
> Opinion...yes, clearly.
> 
> I owned seven HDTV's before my current one and am quite confident that a Kuro's PQ is superior in every aspect other than brightness and a full white field to your lcd. While admittedly coming at aprice premium.
> Call me fanboy of plasma if you want , but I just want quality.
> Look at the bench tests, they don't lie.
> I personally would take aDLP over any LCD.
> *If LCD's can eliminate sample and hold then I will consider them. But not at all until then.
> I also want very deep black levels that are uniform and never rise with ultra high ansi contrast and great color accuracy with great grayscale tracking.
> 
> To each their own. And as long as evryone enjoys their dispalys, that's 'all' that matters.


Sample and hold is a process found in all d/a conversions. No digital set can eliminate it. It is not what you find objectionable about LCDs. Many recent LCDs are quite competitive with the best PDPs and better than the lower end units. There are just as many differences in performance within each technology than between them.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S

solid7 said:


> In my opinion, that was a pretty disappointing group of televisions that were reviewed... How could a Pioneer *anything* not win in that group? :thumbsdown:
> 
> 
> 
> Plasma sets *don't* generate a lot of heat?
> 
> All of the 50"+ sets that I looked at generated more heat than my 55 gallon fish tank. The aquarium heater (with the water at temperature) can generate enough heat in a 14' X 14' room so as to make it uncomfortable, and I can barely feel the heat of it just by passing in front of it. The plasma sets I've experienced emitted a heat that could be felt up to 30" from the set! No good for me. :thumbsdown:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm on set #5, myself.
> 
> I looked at the Kuro. It was a nice set, but I didn't find it any more spectacular than what I bought. And, at the time, it had a $1000 higher price tag. Cost vs. value came into play. For me, the extra miniscule differences didn't warrant paying for the bragging rights.
> 
> Aside from that, any rational person knows that the very best of anything just happens to be the one you like most. I could care less what any bench test says, if I don't like the way it looks, or some other aspect of it. That's why I won't make blanket statements like the one you made. If I had listened to what others told me, (in retrospect) I would have made a huge mistake.


Not sure why you are giving me an attitude, if you'd like to converse like adults, may I ask which kuro you owned?
I realize that nothing is for everyone. I am just going by all the measurable PQ factors.


Oh and your fish tank is nothing like a display.
The fish tank creates a humid air, not dry heat.
I had a 210g reef tank w/3 400w m.h.'s.
But they do add a little heat to a room, which is more noticeable in a small, square, sealed room.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S

lcaillo said:


> Sample and hold is a process found in all d/a conversions. No digital set can eliminate it. It is not what you find objectionable about LCDs. Many recent LCDs are quite competitive with the best PDPs and better than the lower end units. There are just as many differences in performance within each technology than between them.


It is the exact reason I see blur on LCD's. I'm not talking about motion resolution.


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## lcaillo

Getting back to the original question, JVC is getting out of the RP DILA business and Samsung out of the RP DLP market after the current models sell through in both lines. While discussing the changes with tech reps from both companies last week, the both bive the same reasons. It has little to do with the DILA and DLP technologies, and everything to do with the market trend away from RPTV and toward flat panels. Both will continue to build projectors, which have higher profit margins.

What other vendors will do is not clear. Most seem to be getting out of the RPTV market for the same reasons. This may leave a niche that someone can really exploit.


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## lcaillo

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> It is the exact reason I see blur on LCD's. I'm not talking about motion resolution.


This is really something that would be better discussed in its own thread.


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## Guest

Just ask your parents or neighbors about what TV they want (they'll probably say one of those new ones that hang on the wall) The stigma that RP is an old technology, instead of affordable HD for the size, is ingrained in the mainstream. I had to personal take my parents to the store while I was on leave to show them the TV because they wanted something larger for the livingroom and didn't want to spend LCD/Plasma money for it. When I tried telling them over the phone all they could think of in their mind with the massive behemoths of old with washed out pictures where you had to sit at just the right angle. Took my mom (the least techy of the family) to the store showed her the Sammy DLP (Sammy and Mitshu are the only ones left on shevles it seems) and even she could tell it looked good, that the cabinet was more then small enough for a living room and picked out all by herself the 1080p "looked so much clearer" than the 720p sets around it.
It just comes down to Joe/Jane Consumers preconception about RPTV's and lack of education by store personel about them, probably in their own interest since they are for the most part cheaper than the equivalent flat panel tech.

As far as front projection if they even know that it is affordable/ within the real of possibilty most do not want to a dedicated space or a darkened living room for watching TV/Movies. My parents hated when I closed the blinds because I couldn't the TV from the glare of the setting sun. All I wanted to do was to channel surf something I don't get to do, but they would be like "It's a cafe in here!" Again mainstream is what rules and decide what product lines die and stay. If i doesn't make a profit the company doesn't care. 10,000 enthusiasts do not make a profit, 1,000,000 misinformed mass consumers make profits, this is why color brighting tech exist, to catch the eye of the normal guy passing buy, cause to him it looks "better". Don't even start on the new headache inducing "120 hz" tech which should only be used for steroescopic display purposes.


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## lcaillo

There is no doubt that there is great appeal for being able to hang a set on the wall and not have to have a big box in the room. We moved to that and sacrificed a great deal of size to do so, and have loved it. It changed the room completely in our case. What surprises me is that even if only 18% of the market is RPTV, that is still a lot of sets that someone could be selling.


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