# Don't Dump your CRT RPTV!



## Mr Bob

With all the hoopla around the new fixed pixel units - which is all we hear about these days and which of course is just what their manufacturers want, considering how expensive they are - it's easy to lose sight of tried and true triple-gun CRT technology, esp. CRT RPTV tech. 

IMHO, it is still the best. It still has the best blacks, it does 1080i effortlessly, (and could do 1080p just as well), and the color range and depth when properly set up and calibrated has always been thrilling. And size? When fully calibrated, it allows for viewers to sit far closer than ANY 720p fixed pixel technology, delivering an essentially BIGGER picture to be watching, and losing yourself in. Isn't that really what it's all about? 

Try to sit that close to any fixed pixel technology less than 1080p and much of the time you are staring individual pixels in the face, with massive screendoor effect. CRT is the only medium where its smoothness and yet incredibly high resolution contributes to exquisite detail, without the artificial crispness of most of today's fixed pixel technologies. Then there's rainbow effect, silkscreen effect, blotchiness, blocky movement on motion, the really challenging area of the lack of crisp blacks in all but the most expensive fixed pixel sets...NONE of which CRT tech has to bother dealing with.

Yet videophiles right and left are abandoning their CRT RPTVs in favor of the newer fixed pixel stuff. It's saddening. They have no idea what they are losing. CRT RPTVs can be kept looking better than new for 10-15 years when treated right. And produce better images, all that time, than much of the fixed pixel technology out there today, all of it MUCH more expensive than CRT. And to fix the new fixed pixel sets, after their warranties run out? You don't want to even think about that. Be prepared to just buy new again, because it's going to be atrociously expensive to repair fixed pixel technology. It's going to be so expensive you might as well just buy new all over again, just spring another couple of thousand.

CRT is the last readily affordable format to repair, that we will see.

At CES this year 3 years ago I saw NO CRT technology being promoted. Yet deals can still be found on used or refurb'd CRT RPTVs, UEC is a good source for refurb'd Hitachis. It is still some of the best technolgy out there, and these days the absolutely cheapest way to go as well, if you can find them at all. Used/refurb'd CRT RPTVs are the deal of the century right now, if you check on comparative prices, even factoring in calibrations.

Pioneer Elite owners seem to be the ones most willing to keep their sets alive, possibly because they paid so much for them back in the day. Other brands of set were cheaper and are even cheaper still now, causing their owners to more often than not just step into something new rather than keep their current sets alive. Yet ALL CRT sets can be made to look stunning, with the proper care and maintenance of professional optics cleaning and calibration. Even the cheapest brand has incredible potential, when treated properly.


I hope more people will see the light on this before it's availablility is finally taken away completely. They are no longer being produced new at all now. We should hold on to our CRT sets for dear life, because once they are gone, they are gone. I for one will not part with my present CRT RPTV, my Mit WS 73517. They will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands!

If you have a triple-gun CRT RPTV, PLEASE reconsider if you are about to kiss it off. It's still the best way to go, once cleaned and calibrated. 

And cleaning and calibration is a whole lot cheaper than buying and paying taxes on a new fixed pixel set.


Mr Bob


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## thsmith

*Re: Don 't Dump your CRT RPTV!*

Hey Bob, you know my story but to share with others.

1.5 year old Mits WS-73615 $1600 + $325 ISF calibration (Steve Martin of Dallas) = Priceless HD goodness


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## Mr Bob

*Re: Don 't Dump your CRT RPTV!*



thsmith said:


> Hey Bob, you know my story but to share with others.
> 
> 1.5 year old Mits WS-73615 $1600 + $325 ISF calibration (Steve Martin of Dallas) = Priceless HD goodness


Steve is very, very good. You got the right guy on the job.

Have you tried the shimming technique for overscan reduction? It gives you more area of your CRTs exposed to your screen, allowing for higher resolution once the focusing, geometry and convergence all get redone to super precision performance again. I used 1.5", but if I had it to do over, would make it 2". Allows me to sit 8' back now, where I used to need to sit 10' back.

Then there's the Craig Rounds ee tightening modification, which also improved my picture immensely...

And working with the PerfectColor, while cumbersome to the max, yeilds excellent results for the colorations -


Mr Bob


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## tonyvdb

Good post Bob, I agree.:T
My Sony 53" KP-53HS30 is going on 6 years old and still looks fantastic! Im not about to replace it any time soon. SD looks better on it than any other large display I have seen, HD looks way better than our LCD that we use in our bedroom and even our projector in the basement.








I spent about 4 hrs in the service menu adjusting all sorts of settings including the overscan and Blanking settings to get it looking the way it does but so well worth it. I have the overscan set to about 2% all the way around.


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## Mr Bob

tonyvdb said:


> Good post Bob, I agree.:T
> My Sony 53" KP-53HS30 is going on 6 years old and still looks fantastic! Im not about to replace it any time soon. SD looks better on it than any other large display I have seen, HD looks way better than our LCD that we use in our bedroom and even our projector in the basement.
> 
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> I spent about 4 hrs in the service menu adjusting all sorts of settings including the overscan and Blanking settings to get it looking the way it does but so well worth it. I have the overscan set to about 2% all the way around.


2% ain't easy! Congratsl. You're already way ahead on its being a Sony, as those generally don't need any refocusing, OOB. Only brand I can say that about -

Have you cleaned the optics, including the deeper optics? All CRT RPTVs over 3 years old are already in dire need of it, yours even more so at 6 years. You'll see it as bleariness in dark areas, with a strong "glow" or haziness around bright objects against a dark background.

If you haven't, be VERY careful. Most CRT RPTV lenses are plastic, and the mirrors on HDreadys are front surface.

Sonys also are designed with strong red push, on the colorations. The grayscale is generally pretty good, but the red push alters everything as soon as color is involved. There are registers in the sm that you can use to realign that red push out and back to clean, linear color rendition, where the blues and greens keep up with the reds.


Mr Bob


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## tonyvdb

Mr Bob said:


> Have you cleaned the optics, including the deeper optics? All CRT RPTVs over 3 years old are already in dire need of it, yours even more so at 6 years. You'll see it as bleariness in dark areas, with a strong "glow" or haziness around bright objects against a dark background.


Yes, Ive been in the back about three times and have wiped clean the main three lenses using a lightly damp soft cloth and did as good a job as I could on the mirror. 



> Sonys also are designed with strong red push, on the colorations. The grayscale is generally pretty good, but the red push alters everything as soon as color is involved. There are registers in the sm that you can use to realign that red push out and back to clean, linear color rendition, where the blues and greens keep up with the reds.
> Mr Bob


I adjusted one of the settings in the service menu (I dont remember what it was called) and the color looks great. I used my AVIA DVD to set up the settings properly from inside the service menu (I may not be a ISF technition but I think I did a farly good job)  The contrast on this RPTV is amazing. I have even manually done my own convergence so all three colors are perfectly lined up. I personally dont like the Flash focus its not as good as doing it manually.
Its amazing how much of the HD image is cropped off by the vertical blank, I gained about an inch on the top and bottom of the 16x9 image by adjusting them each up and down. I measured it and I'm getting about a 48" diagonal 16x9 image does that seem right?


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## Mr Bob

tonyvdb said:


> Yes, Ive been in the back about three times and have wiped clean the main three lenses using a lightly damp soft cloth and did as good a job as I could on the mirror.
> 
> 
> I adjusted one of the settings in the service menu (I dont remember what it was called) and the color looks great. I used my AVIA DVD to set up the settings properly from inside the service menu (I may not be a ISF technition but I think I did a farly good job)  The contrast on this RPTV is amazing. I have even manually done my own convergence so all three colors are perfectly lined up. I personally dont like the Flash focus its not as good as doing it manually.
> Its amazing how much of the HD image is cropped off by the vertical blank, I gained about an inch on the top and bottom of the 16x9 image by adjusting them each up and down. I measured it and I'm getting about a 48" diagonal 16x9 image does that seem right?


The way to tell if your aspect ratio is correct is to do the math, using the height and width. Is the width 16/9ths, or 1.7777777...?

You're right about the Flash Focus. It's only for getting you close, strictly for Joe Sixpack.

The setting you redid your color rendition with was probably AXIS, with 4 settings. One would be the proper setting. The other way Sony does it is via the R-YR, R-YB, G-YR and G-YB registers, and requires a lot more work.

I DK if the Sonys made that a global or a local setting. On the Mits's, it's all local, and with 4 different scanrates, including one for RGB, you have to work with each of them if you want them all to be right.

So you might still have some work to do on your HD, if all you have done so far on that is via AVIA. I of course use my Accupel for that, but the HD version of DVE is also excellent for all things calibratable.


Mr Bob


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## bill_w

I'm with you on this! When I decided to make a break into an HD display, very few CRT units were available. There were only a few RCA and Hitachi's that i could find. I settled for the 65" Hitachi and Havent been happier. I've been installing FiOS HD service for a few years now and get to see quite a few displays. Nothing in my opinion has yet to compete with CRT...

Now to get that Runco projector in my garage working


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## Mr Bob

bill_w said:


> I'm with you on this! When I decided to make a break into an HD display, very few CRT units were available. There were only a few RCA and Hitachi's that i could find. I settled for the 65" Hitachi and Havent been happier. I've been installing FiOS HD service for a few years now and get to see quite a few displays. Nothing in my opinion has yet to compete with CRT...
> 
> Now to get that Runco projector in my garage working



For those of you who don't know, Sam Runco was bought out recently by Planar, and is now centered in Beaverton, Oregon. Planar has been coached quite well by the Runco folks, and were very authoritative last time I needed advice in the field about one of their older projectors.

So keep the faith, your Runco pj will stay fixable and usable! Fly me in if you want it calibrated as well as repaired, and if you want both units optimized to the max of their abilities and potentials. There is another website out there where there are no less than 4 threads, some of them very long, about how to bring the best out of your Hitachi CRT RPTV -


Mr Bob


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## MatrixDweller

There are some drawbacks to CRT though. Screen burn in, specially with video games and with black side bars for 4:3 viewing on a 16:9 screen. Then there is the size. Projection TVs are heavier, and bigger physically than LCD flat panels. Then there are convergence problems. DLP and LCD technology are also still evolving at a fairly fast pace, whereas CRT has pretty much evolved to it's full potential. Any improvements in CRT technology are very minimal. then there is the fact that the tubes will eventually need to be replaced and that the picture is gradually degenerating over time. LCD flat panels do suffer from lamp dimming but generally their lamps will last 60,000 hours or more. By the time it's lamp is dead you'll be on to a 4K OLED screen.


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## tonyvdb

MatrixDweller said:


> ...Then there are convergence problems.


Yes but if you know what your doing adjusting convergence is easy (less than 15 min every 6 months or so). LCD pannels can get knocked out of alignment and are much harder to fix.


> then there is the fact that the tubes will eventually need to be replaced and that the picture is gradually degenerating over time. LCD flat panels do suffer from lamp dimming but generally their lamps will last 60,000 hours or more. By the time it's lamp is dead you'll be on to a 4K OLED screen.


CRT Tubes last far longer than any bulb will ever last, 15 years under normal use is very achievable. A bulb for a LCD or DLP projector last no more than 4,000hrs unless its a LED bulb. 
My CRT RPTV is going on 6 years and is still in perfect condition and very bright.


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## MatrixDweller

I was referring to a flat panel display (as written), not projectors, both of your counters are misdirected. Flat panel LCDs will last 30,000-60,000 hours or more. The phosphor on the CRT tubes wears out over time. The colours will dull and light output will diminish over time.

The most annoying thing I find about CRTs is that there is a very slight 60Hz flicker to the picture. You normally don't see it. If you view it with your peripheral vision you can see it (the peripheral rods in your eye detect motion better). Try watching a movie in the dark then go into another dark room and your eye will still be strobing. See Flicker Fusion Threshold.

Someone pointed out that LCD suffers from screen door effect. That is true at abnormal viewing distances but mostly on projectors and LCD flat panels tend to have a much tighter pixel structure. The same can be said about CRTs however. The dot-pitch matrix can be made out when sitting too close.

LCD Flat panels do not have as pure of a colour than CRTs do. They also used to have poor response times and exhibited ghosting. Dead pixels where also a concern. All of these areas have seen marked improvements in the past few years. Contrast ratio is rapidly improving also and is near CRT levels now.

Other factors that are in LCD flat panels favour are that they are not susceptible to magnetic interference like CRTs are. They are also brighter and and use a lot less energy.


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## tonyvdb

MatrixDweller said:


> I was referring to a flat panel display (as written), not projectors, both of your counters are misdirected.


No counter intended, just pointing out what I know. I agree that all LCD flat displays have grown to look amazing I have one in our bedroom (a 29") and another on its way for the kids use in the basement (a 32") both are very good when used for DVDs and HD material but are lousy for SD from cable or sat. The fixed Native resolution of LCDs are still a big downfall. CRT handles it much better at least mine does.


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## MatrixDweller

Yes I must admit that SD does look much better on a High Definition CRT than a LCD. I have a Samsung Slim Fit 30" HD CRT (1080i) and the non HD cable channels look pretty good still. Using the built in (poor) upconverter in the cable box actually makes it look worse. Zooming to get rid of he black bard makes it look terrible though. That's probably more the fault of the cable box though.


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## lcaillo

Just turn the sharpness down on the LCD. The effect will be very similar.


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## SVO

Many of the drawbacks of CRT have been cited. This debate is very akin to LP vs CD. There are various advantages and disadvantages. BUT, if you are viewing in a daylight room the brightness of LCD (without all the reflections of plasma) trumps RP CRT for vast majority of users. In a completely light-controlled room, the size/brightness of a digital projector plus screen trumps CRT again. If 480i upscaled SD TV is not looking really good your signal or your scaling is not up to snuff. While it is true that the soft focus effect of CRT helps with really bad content (think Barbara Walters interviews), if your SD signal is that bad you need a new provider.

Try a good SD DVD on an Oppo player driving a well-adjusted Sharp LCD 1080p, via HDMI. It will rock your world. And since when are cable SD signals anything people watch critically anyway? Southpark? Please. Realistically, you need either to be a serious gearhead or pay the RIGHT guy a few hundred every other year to keep your CRT baby humming. And then the install flexibility of an LCD. The lower power consumption. Etc.

JD, ISF trained


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## Guest

Although the gap is closing, the color richiness of CRTs is still unmatchable.

Sadness to say, it's getting more & more difficult to get HD playback devices able to connect to CRTs in a simple way.


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## Mr Bob

tonyvdb said:


> My CRT RPTV is going on 6 years and is still in perfect condition and very bright.




Have your optics been cleaned to a professional grade level lately? That 30KV really does a number on your optics - every moment the set is on and charged up, those optics literally suck dust, soot, lint and anything else that's airborn right out of the air and onto themselves. It's known as static cling, and 30KV is its power source.

See the Nuts and Bolts section of my website for more info.

After 1 year they need regular optics cleaning to stay crystal clear. After 3 years have gone by without any cleaning, the need for cleaning starts to become desperate. 

At your set's age if it they have never been cleaned, it's past desperate if you wish to have everything your set is capable of. The bleariness you are watching your material thru is like the difference between the murky underwater vs. crystal clear out of water scenes, in Finding Nemo.

But don't just do it willy-nilly. There are great hazards to be observed, and your optics are now pretty much irreplaceable, so be VERY careful! The lenses are plastic and very easily scratchable - which is permanent, meaning no completely dry method is safe other than brushing them lightly, which is completely inadequate after the first year - and your mirror is usually a first surface mirror, on HDready sets.


Mr Bob


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## tonyvdb

Mr Bob said:


> Have your optics been cleaned to a professional grade level lately? That 30KV really does a number on your optics - every moment the set is on and charged up, those optics literally suck dust, soot, lint and anything else that's airborn right out of the air and onto themselves. It's known as static cling, and 30KV is its power source.


If you mean wipe down the surface of each lens then yes I do it about once ever 6 months.


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## Mr Bob

tonyvdb said:


> If you mean wipe down the surface of each lens then yes I do it about once ever 6 months.


Awesome!

If you have been doing that all these years, the dirt will never have had a chance to cake up on the lenses, as I see on all units that have never been done and are years and years old.

:T

However, depending on what brand you have your deeper optics, those below your lenses, may need it by now. Pioneers and Pannys definitely, Mit never... 


Mr Bob


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## tonyvdb

Its a Sony KP-53HS30,
Being that its a 4:3 aspect ratio RPTV is "lens striping" necessary?


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## SteveCallas

Don't mean to stir the pot here, but I have to strongly disagree. CRTs just can't produce the same pop or 3d image that a good flat panel can. With SD, a good CRT will have an advantage over just about any flat panel - that I won't argue - but with HD content, I have yet to see any CRT (both television sets or projectors) produce the quality of image you can get from a mid level to top tier flat panel. The flat panels are only going to keep getting better too.


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## Turbe

Unfortantely, you can't just dump them in my area, there is a major surcharge to get rid of CRTs now...


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## Mr Bob

SteveCallas said:


> Don't mean to stir the pot here, but I have to strongly disagree. CRTs just can't produce the same pop or 3d image that a good flat panel can. With SD, a good CRT will have an advantage over just about any flat panel - that I won't argue - but with HD content, I have yet to see any CRT (both television sets or projectors) produce the quality of image you can get from a mid level to top tier flat panel. The flat panels are only going to keep getting better too.


Come over to my place and check out my 73" CRT Mit. I'll put it up against any flat panel you can name and mine will stand tall with it, and will dwarf most 1080p plasmas out there. Mine has pop and punch and depth and 3-dimensionality to spare.

I agree with you on OOB CRT triple gun units, tho. They are not typically well set up, and the convergence tends to drift over time and needs to stay tuned up. Optics get dirty because of the 30KV, and very few people know that they need to stay cleaned, that you need a crystal clear light path for CRT to really perform correctly.

But crystal clear light-pathed well calibrated CRT is a wonder to behold. Methinks you just haven't seen one well set up. When Craig Miller was doing strictly Mit CRT units, he had a waiting list months long for his tours.

I have been hired by countless owners to keep their CRT sets in line for many years now, and over at the AVS my thread of this same name has already been running for 2 years now, currently in its 139th page. I am not the only one who feels this way about CRT tech, there are many -


Mr Bob


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## SteveCallas

Perhaps, but what I tend to notice with the highly pro-CRT crowd is that they base their opinions of flat pannels on what they have seen 3-5 years ago, usually in a store where it is set up poorly, and they refuse to put those initial impressions to the wayside in place of the much better models available today. I've been to a couple home theaters with CRT projectors - one of which was a Runco, have a father who owns a 52" Sony CRT set, and had a roomate back in college who bought a brand new 46" Sony CRT set (2004). The tvs were not professionally calibrated and I'm not sure if the projectors were. I've spent a fair amount of time around CRTs, though not exactly top of the line Mitsu Diamonds that are routinely cleaned. 

My roomate had to move twice after graduating and he hated lugging that CRT, so he started looking into LCDs. Both he and I settled on the Westinghouse 42" 1080p set (this was about 2.5 years ago), an LCD that has pretty poor black levels compared to today's sets. He set up his CRT and the Westinghouse side by side before making the second move, and when it came to HD content, it was no contest. The LCD was more vibrant, 3d, and had plenty more pop. 

There is a dullness to the colors of CRT that I can't get over - images just aren't striking to me in comparison. The detail on flat pannels appears sharper too, CRTs often times look a bit soft in comparison. I just don't see what all the fuss is about.

Now again, that is a pretty old LCD model that came out around Jan 2006 if I recall correctly. Newer models are significantly better with much lower black levels, much higher contrast ratios, and better deinterlacing and upscaling capabilities. Unfortunately for the CRT, they were just about peaked out at the time he got his.


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## lcaillo

I love CRT sets. That said, there are things that they do well, and things that they do not do as well. You have to really understand them to get the most out of them, and if you are willing to devote the effort, some can be stunning. Most folks who argue otherwise just have not seen one performing at its best, just like you say about the pro-crt view of flat panels.

If you don't like CRTs, then that is OK. Others opinions differ.

Personally, I could certainly live with many of the newest LCD panels, and some of the DLP sets for something larger. The advantages of CRTs are fading fast, as other technologies are further refined.


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## tonyvdb

SteveCallas said:


> My roomate had to move twice after graduating and he hated lugging that CRT, so he started looking into LCDs. Both he and I settled on the Westinghouse 42" 1080p set (this was about 2.5 years ago), an LCD that has pretty poor black levels compared to today's sets. He set up his CRT and the Westinghouse side by side before making the second move, and when it came to HD content, it was no contest. The LCD was more vibrant, 3d, and had plenty more pop.
> 
> There is a dullness to the colors of CRT that I can't get over - images just aren't striking to me in comparison. The detail on flat pannels appears sharper too, CRTs often times look a bit soft in comparison. I just don't see what all the fuss is about.


At the begginning of your post you said non of the CRT displays wer calabrated. That says it all. Using the so called auto foccuss setting on CRT displays hardly get things close nor does the user menu adjustments.
I agree with you that LCD displays look great (I have three of them) but my Sony 53" CRT RPTV looks just as good. But as was also said they are slowly being replaced by newer technology and soon I bet we will be saying the same about LCD once LED displays become available.


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## Mr Bob

*Victoria's Secret Fashion Show on CBS, 1080i Dish DVR recording*

Just finished adding another shim to my CRT array, a la (thanks!) Owen, for a total of 2.25" - 3 shims of 3/4" each, 4 of them - to my 73" Mit. I added a spot of white glue between the shims and under them, for stability. This makes half again the amount of shimmage I had before today, with just 2 shim thicknesses each x4, for 1.5" of shimmage for the last few months -

Took this opportunity to reclean the lens tops, it had been a year or so since last time, made a noticeable difference. Mit's HDreadys don't need the deeper optics cleaning, they don't allow an air gap between the lenses and the coolant covers, like the Elites do.

I think my shots are being compromised by being in jpeg, which I have heard reduces the res automatically. I checked my cam and can't find any way to redo any of that inside the cam, so it must by the automatic Windows uploading from my cam. Any input welcome on that. Kodak Z712 IS.

After redoing the focus, geometry and convergence - grayscale and colorations stayed the same as before, basically all by eye on the colorations - here's the results -










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Slightly overexposed, but appropriate to the brilliance of the runway







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Hard to get the crowd shadow details and still have the diamond sparkle without it white crushing out







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Slight movement blur on this one, mostly on her outfit. 







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Blur on this one only on her right shoe and at the top of her rack (no not that one, the one she's WEARING...!)







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## MatrixDweller

Mr Bob said:


> I have been hired by countless owners to keep their CRT sets in line for many years now


The need to have your set "professionally" calibrated and cleaned every year or two would be a big black mark in my opinion. The gradual color degradation and the strong possibility of burn in when playing games or using different aspect ratios is another big black mark. There are just too many cons with CRTs.

I would also say that your screenshots look very comparable to my Epson 550 LCD projector which was manufactured in 2005 and is only 720p. I would imagine a new 1080p projector such as the Epson 1080UB would be better.

Here are some screenshots from my projector. Note the projector hasn't been professionally calibrated and is being projected onto a home made matte white Formica screen. The source is Casino Royale on Bluray playing through a PS3 passed through a Denon 4306 and onto my Epson Home Cinema 550. The PS3 is down sampling the 1080p to 720p.


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## Mr Bob

MatrixDweller said:


> The need to have your set "professionally" calibrated and cleaned every year or two would be a big black mark in my opinion. The gradual color degradation and the strong possibility of burn in when playing games or using different aspect ratios is another big black mark. There are just too many cons with CRTs.
> 
> I would also say that your screenshots look very comparable to my Epson 550 LCD projector which was manufactured in 2005 and is only 720p. I would imagine a new 1080p projector such as the Epson 1080UB would be better.
> 
> Here are some screenshots from my projector. Note the projector hasn't been professionally calibrated and is being projected onto a home made matte white Formica screen. The source is Casino Royale on Bluray playing through a PS3 passed through a Denon 4306 and onto my Epson Home Cinema 550. The PS3 is down sampling the 1080p to 720p.


Your comments are duly noted, but keep in mind that back then there was no alternative to CRT RPTV in the stand-alone self-contained RPTV world. Now there's all sorts of alternatives, like DLP, LCD projection, LCOS, SXRD...

I just don't see the need to replace sets like these - CRT RPTV - to buy new, when they can look this good. All it takes is some attention every few years, similar to needing a new bulb every few years for today's lamp-driven tech.

And fixed pixel tech is still experiencing growing pains, which CRT doesn't have.

Your Epson looks great! Of course it's fixed pixel, so it can't help but look great on the image structure. The challenge in CRT is to make triple-gun look as good as fixed pixel at 1080i/p. I LOVE doing that, and am totally successful at it. Esp. when doing it in 1080i delivers twice the pixel count of 720p. And much less ee.

Those with the bucks can buy new at will. Those of us who buy things to last and want them to stay looking great don't mind putting a little money into them now and then to keep them at their best. It's a lot less expensive to do that than to constantly be buying new, esp. on new tech that still has SSE, RBE, stilted movement on motion, and various other kinks that are still working themselves out in fixed pixel. CRT has none of that, plus the best blacks in the biz.

I relish the thought that my CRT RPTV in 1080i can look every bit as good as a ceiling projector like yours, without the limitations of light levels compromising what hits the screen, inherent in front projection. I acknowledge that Cliff's double-stack of triple-gun G90's DOES look better than my Mit, but at what cost!


Mr Bob


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## Mr Bob

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## DallasBill

Gee, Bob... you are everywhere! :wave: I agree with many of the points made here, and here are some of my own.

I've had my Mits 46807 calibrated twice -- once by Bob many years ago for 480p and then again by Craig Rounds for 480p/1080i after a move. Worked great. But, in the last 2 weeks it simply stopped working -- LED on but no sound or video on any input. So, I can do 2 things: spend the time and effort to find someone to diagnose and fix it, which will cost at least $250 bucks once all is said and done. Or, put it on Craigslist for free, along with a flaky Zenith DVB-318 1080i upconverting via component DVD player. Then, I can put the money into something new, the elephant is out of the media room, I no longer have to maintain a '55 Chevy TV, and a tinkerer may be in hog heaven.

All come out winners!


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## ampire

a bunch of people are giving their decalibrated older bigscreens away on craigslist (baltimore) or for only a couple hundred bucks.


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## Mr Bob

*Restoration of "older" CRT RPTV. HA! Not older at all*

This is from my calibration tour last week of Baltimore, Aberdeen, and then more Baltimore. It was first printed on the AVS version of this thread a few days ago.

Enjoy -

b



Just got home tonite from the weeklong Baltimore tour. There were 4 big screens to work on and only 7 days to do them in, so tonite is the first time I have had a chance to breathe a bit and contemplate which pix to send up.

These are the Befores of Steve Mock's Pioneer Elite 710. I will get others up here soon, including the shimming op and Afters -

The most noticeable deficiencies in his display were the optics needing cleaning, the pic was dim and overscanned, and of course the horrendous grayscale. He was nearing the edge on putting up with that pesky overscan, and the shimming op finally gave him the relief he's been looking for.

The purple pix were taken the first night, which was when the grayscale had to be done because of little light isolation in the daytime. The optics cleaning had to be done before the grayscale could be done. 

The structure shots were taken the next day, after the grayscale had already been dealt with and restored. You can do the structure with little light iso, but not the grayscale.

Optics dirty








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Grayscale horrendous








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Pic after cleaning and grayscale but before restoring of the original light levels, along with other user settings needing to be way off center to deliver decent fleshtones, but before the rest of the work, where those got recentered









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huge overscan - observe the upper left corner, where the graphics are cut off at the knees. That's just the top, the bottom was the same -








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OOB overscan and uncentered positioning








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still grossly overscanned OOB, but at least re-centered before taking it in via the shimming op








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Dim pic at Black Level zero, requiring increasing it way out of spec








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More soon -

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## Mr Bob

*Afters*

Same display as from the pix above, sent in earlier. More about the cal itself later -

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Sorry about the slight focussing blurriness on this one and on the Lilu pic above; it was camera error, not display error, display stayed the same in all the After shots. The colorations were very delicate, so I decided to keep it








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2 different exposure settings on cam, display remains the same. Cam's up/downloaded dynamic range nowhere near as good as display's, as evidenced best on the fur hitting white crush in the second pic while the guy's backside is still challenged for shadow detail. The display had no problem with getting all of that right, as the settings on the display never changed yet showed it all when the best parts of both pix are observed. 

The camera/computer upload/imageshack hosting/download to this thread - not so much








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## Mr Bob

*Before and Afters*

Dirty/clean Optics and grayscale

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This last shot was in the daytime with a skylight way up there and only able to be partially blocked, so the blacks won't be quite as inky as in the previous shots, with the daylight allowing you to see the nice wood cabinetry on this one, which Steve created from scratch BTW. VERY nice woodwork by the owner. 

Cam's exposure setting lower than in shot above, at cam, display's settings remained the same. Would have reduced the exposure on the Before shot above to get a match with this one on the exposure, but it was too late by then








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## Mr Bob

*Shimming op for o'scan redux*

4 layers of half-inch thick wood, for exactly 2" thickness








You can see 2 blocks on this shot, because the entire array tray is raised so much




Steve's rather unique way of doing the bolts. As Kirk said in Wrath of Khan, about his solution to the unwinnable Kobiashi Maru (?) test at the Academy, "It had the unique virtue of never having been tried..." Observe the MULTIPLE washers at the head of the bolt, since we could not get the bolt to penetrate the set's metal tray beyond just a little bite, even with the hole already there for a smaller bolt thickness that we simply could not lay our hands on in an elongated length. Worked like a charm...






 

The results


Before




After

Had to push the image up a bit from center because of a pesky red and blue dot that were visible in the blacks at fully centered vertically. 

Top could have been a bit straighter and more parallel to the frame, but the shimming op had taken so long by then I was kind of in a rush and missed it. That wood wall that had to be removed was incredibly hard to get out when thru the front was the only way. He really didn't want to have to take the set out to get to the back of it, and with his considerations on what was back there to have to deal with, I didn't blame him...

Redoing the o'scan this way takes a lot of pressure off the coarse and fine geo/conv circuit, which can happen when reducing it via sm only


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## Mr Bob

*overscan in action*

Factory instilled OOB overscan. BD graphics lettering - or anything else up there at top of screen that you might want to see - cut off at the knees. Same on bottom, cutting off much of her chin








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After

Overscan redux in action. Not only fully restored lettering, but of several inches of the gray above it as well. Same applies at bottom of screen, restoring the contour of her chin. And all around. 

Apply this to sports scores and other graphics your CRT RPTV display is currenty missing and your eyes are starving for, if you've never had it done. 

ALL CRT RPTV tech came with overscan as standard equipment, but the original pic can always be restored by someone in the know, again revealing those formerly lost areas of video real estate and at the same time heightening the available to be viewed visible pixel count. And thus heightened, more intense image resolution, both horizontally and vertically








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Before








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After

Just imagine... 

Unfortunately, I didn't get an After on this one! The only After on o'scan redux other than Lilu's closeup is the grid, shown before. Maybe next time...




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## Mr Bob

My email shows a notification of a post about problems with a 2003 Pioneer. However the link brings me here but does not show that post, and gives me conflicting info about whether I am actually signed in or not. If this shows up, guess I am, even tho the boxes are still asking me for my sign-on info and there is no sign-off box.

???

Anyway, I have been repairing certain models of the Elite PRO HDready series for years - the x10 series and part of the x20 series - and would be glad to help you if you want to contact me directly. The year in question may not be the year I specialize in, tho, so we need to talk.

Looking forward to hearing from you. My contact info is in my sig -


Mr Bob


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## lcaillo

I moved it to the Pioneer forum...

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/pioneer/20414-re-dont-dump-your-crt-rptv-pioneer-tv-dead.html


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## Mr Bob

Gotcha Len. Thanks, I answered it over there.


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## lcaillo

I usually leave a redirect active for 3 days. Maybe I missed it on this one.


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## eugovector

Well, I'm still unemployed, but Megan has accepted a job, so we are officially moving from New York to Oregon.

We need to travel light to save money, and because our next apartment will likely be much smaller, so we're selling off most of our possessions, including my 51" Toshiba 51H83.

Anyone looking for a TV in the Mid Hudson Valley, NY should have a look: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...shiba-51h83-51-crt-rptv-300-a.html#post181286

Bob, you know I'd load it up if I could and have you give it the once over once I hit the West Coast


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## Mr Bob

*Screenshots from Seattle*

Screenshots from my recent out of town calibration, in Seattle, a Pioneer Elite 720 CRT (More later):


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## Mr Bob

eugovector said:


> Well, I'm still unemployed, but Megan has accepted a job, so we are officially moving from New York to Oregon.
> 
> We need to travel light to save money, and because our next apartment will likely be much smaller, so we're selling off most of our possessions, including my 51" Toshiba 51H83.
> 
> Anyone looking for a TV in the Mid Hudson Valley, NY should have a look: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...shiba-51h83-51-crt-rptv-300-a.html#post181286
> 
> Bob, you know I'd load it up if I could and have you give it the once over once I hit the West Coast


Thanks, Marshall. You know I'd hop on it if you did!

:T

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## Mr Bob

Just to continue to show what these sets are capable of -

Component fed ALMOST straight to display from Dish VIP 622 DVR, except for going thru a generic passive mechanical 4 to 1 AV switch. Not even component grade rated, but you will see the undeniable purity.

No HDMI or HD Fury is involved in these pix, they are completely component to component, on my 73" Mit CRT -



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## Mr Bob




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## Mr Bob




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## Mr Bob

Just wanted those of you close to Portland OR and surrounding areas that I am here for another day or 2 and would love to do a calibration or 2 while I am still here. Doesn't have to be a CRT, I do all the new modalities as well. Plasma, DLP, LCD, D-ILA, SXRD...

I also do optics cleaning on projection displays, pretty much all of which will eventually need some level of optics cleaning. If you have a DLP that is more than 5 years old it has needed it for quite some time. Owners of DLP whose sets I have internally cleaned can't stop talking about how the set looks brand new again, after looking so bleary before. Just like CRT. And "older" ceiling projector CRT owners - did you know that with today's HD your set can now look many times better than it ever could before, even with the aid of a $20,000 Faroudja? The performance of today's HD on your Runco, Ampro, Barco, NEC, Sony etc. ceiling CRT projector is head and shoulders above any image Faroudja was able to produce at the time, nor Runco Controller, nor Crystal Image processor... There's seriously no reason to buy new if you have one. The images they can now produce are better than most of the fixed pixel projectors out there being sold today. And no lamp driven modality can even come close to matching CRT in the blacks, with the depth and transparency of image CRT has always produced. 

Since I was last here - 5 years ago??? - I have advanced to ISF Level II Certified, and my thread of the same title here - _Don't Dump Your CRT RPTV! _- over at another site has garnered *over a million views*. It is now more than 400 pages long and is still going strong. In fact there's a post yesterday on a 3 hour phone session I had with an owner of a Hitachi back in Kentucky, with the results of that phone call. Check it out.

Please call me ASAP if you want some loving attention to your baby. I am at your service -

Mr Bob
650-333-4808 cell


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