# Midrange Options?



## Sixtusv (Jan 4, 2015)

Hello, I've been doing some shopping (and buying) of various drivers to test in different enclosure types with an active Behringer crossover (24L/R) and multiple amps.

The most difficult search is turning out to be the midrange. I'm looking for a wide and flat frequency response (isn't everyone?) and mid-to high sensitivity and power-handling capability. I have not found many that can go from 300 to 4000 hz. The higher-end drivers seem to be peaky at narrow ranges. Full-range drivers typically have the wide range, but low power and sensitivity. Cones seem to handle the lower frequencies better, while domes seem to handle the higher frequencies better.

I have narrowed my search down to two mids that I could buy and test, just wonder if Forum members have experience with these and are there other options I should consider.

1) Morel 2" dome
2) Scanspeak Discovery 4"

For the rest of the test, I already have a Fountek ribbon and Vifa soft dome tweeter, plus I have a couple of woofers (one of them being the 8" Silver Flute, plus I'm looking at a few different 12" sub drivers to buy down the road. They all seem easy to find for the most part. The middle is turning out to be the hardest - and that may be because I'm not quite sure how many drivers I'll want to end up with in any given enclosure. (Maybe 4 in a tower, and two in a satellite configuration?) Maybe 3 all across? Hard to say before I start testing.

Thanks! - Six - Minneapolis.


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## azhikerdude (Sep 5, 2009)

If you haven't already, check out Zaph Audio for some additional mid-range options. If you are not familiar with Zaph Audio its not a business, rather an individual that is (passionate and talented) about DIY speaker builds. He does a ton of driver testing and posts the results. Personally, I have built two sets of floor standers using the Usher 8945A as the midrange event though its classified as a woofer. Hope this helps and happy building !


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Sixtusv said:


> Hello, I've been doing some shopping (and buying) of various drivers to test in different enclosure types with an active Behringer crossover (24L/R) and multiple amps.
> 
> The most difficult search is turning out to be the midrange. I'm looking for a wide and flat frequency response (isn't everyone?) and mid-to high sensitivity and power-handling capability. I have not found many that can go from 300 to 4000 hz. The higher-end drivers seem to be peaky at narrow ranges. Full-range drivers typically have the wide range, but low power and sensitivity. Cones seem to handle the lower frequencies better, while domes seem to handle the higher frequencies better.
> 
> ...


I don't have experience with those two, but have really enjoyed some of Morel's other drivers. 

Have you listened to Hertz or Audison? They're under the same ownership, SQ is very impressive. 

The Hertz ML 700.3 is on another level

Size mm (in.) 70 (3) 
Power Handling - Peak W 100 (Hi-Pass filtered @ 250Hz - 12dB Oct.) Impedance Ω 4 
Frequency response Hz 200 - 20k 
Sensitivity dB SPL 90 
Voice coil Ø mm (in.) 20 (0.8) Magnet Neodymium Cone/Dome Pressed-pulp cone with cotton fibres
The Hertz HL 70 Size mm (in.) 70 (3”) 
Power Handling - Peak W 100 Power Handling - Continuous W 50
Impedance Ω 4 
Frequency response Hz 200 ÷ 14k 
Sensitivity dB SPL 92 
Voice coil 2 inches 
Magnet REN® Neodymium
Cone/Dome Damped Mesh Fibre Cone

The Audison Voce line will have similar specs to high energy line from the above Hertz. Audison Thesis is rare, costly, yet Wow


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## Sixtusv (Jan 4, 2015)

Thank you for your responses Azhikerdude and TomFord!

I had been aware of Zaph Audio, but never really explored it in depth! It is quite a treasure trove of information, especially for test results and harmonic distortion charts for multiple size drivers!

Tom's recommendations of Hertz and Audison also opened up a whole new world of drivers that I was not even considering before.... (mostly I've been looking at Madisound and Part Express Online catalogs since they have lots of options and plenty of information) 

The more I think about it, the more I wonder if I've been limiting myself too much... "A driver is a driver, right?" is there any reason why I should not also be looking at the drivers made for Automotive applications? Does the small-room nature of autos means that the drivers advertised for that use, might not be optimal in a larger (living room) space?

Great feedback, thank you!

Clearly


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Sixtusv said:


> Thank you for your responses Azhikerdude and TomFord!
> 
> I had been aware of Zaph Audio, but never really explored it in depth! It is quite a treasure trove of information, especially for test results and harmonic distortion charts for multiple size drivers!
> 
> ...



Mt thoughts on the drivers made for car audio were very similar to yours. Didn't think they would sound as good, but honestly never gave it much thought. After getting a great home theater/audio system the music in the car sounded terrible. Purchased a pair of the Hertz HSK 165 components for the front which sound outstanding. It made the rear speakers sound terrible though with the impressive SQ. So I purchased a set of the Audison AV6 components, only this time I mounted them on an open baffle to try out an power amplifier I stumbled upon. The SQ was simply too good to put in the rear of the car. They sounded better than any home speakers I'd heard under 1k. So I put them in a bookshelf enclosure and have been extremely happy. Wanting to do the same with the Hertz. Love the quality in the car, yet prefer it more in the home. 

When you look at the differences, I really don't see any comparing the higher end car audio to home audio speakers. 

At its simplest, a driver is designed to push air. Which the brands like Hertz, Audison, Morel, Focal, do as well as any others at a comparative price range. Also like the fact that not all of them are made in China like in home audio to my knowledge. Focal are hand made in France, Hertz/Audison are hand made in Italy. Not a factory producing as many as it possibly can in China. You feel the difference when you open them. 

Another excellent driver for "car audio" that's transitioned into my home is the Morel Ultimo 124. I put a 1000 watt BASH amplifier with it. Feels like I need 20 acres to be able to turn it up to 75%, and would wager she'll hang if not outperform anything under 2k. 

Do some research, look at the designs of the drivers. Things like the designs/shape of the cone on the Audison Voce will show you the SQ is most likely outstanding. I just try to continually learn as they're always someone making improvements. 

Best advice I can give is be patient in deciding, very undervalued virtue, and at the end of the day, go with what your gut tells you


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## etroze86 (Sep 22, 2014)

I recommend checking out Hybrid Audio Technologies Legatia Pro line. They are a car audio speaker but the mids are a dome like the morels and just sound amazing. The other nice things about domes is you don't have to worry about enclosure space on them so you can stick them in pretty much anything that fits.

http://store.12velectronics.com/categories/Hybrid-Audio-Technologies/Legatia-Pro/


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

etroze86 said:


> I recommend checking out Hybrid Audio Technologies Legatia Pro line. They are a car audio speaker but the mids are a dome like the morels and just sound amazing. The other nice things about domes is you don't have to worry about enclosure space on them so you can stick them in pretty much anything that fits.
> 
> http://store.12velectronics.com/categories/Hybrid-Audio-Technologies/Legatia-Pro/



The Legatia line isn't one that I've heard, yet a number of people have mentioned it. 

Same with a company called DLP


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## etroze86 (Sep 22, 2014)

The great thing about HAT is they will send a set to a local installer so you can demo them.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Have you considered the NEO 10 ... it's the best midrange going in my opinion...


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## lashlee (Mar 31, 2014)

To second what was stated earlier about the Hertz line of drivers, they sound fantastic. I used a set of HSK163's in the last car and now have Mille ML280's, ML700's and ML1600's in my Accord. They sound great out of the box compared to my other car (Dyn MD100's, MW140's and MW170's) both active. I competed against alot of guys with Legatia's (and talked to Scott about sponsorship after I won national points) but plans changed and I quit competing (another story for another day). I've heard some of the PE, Dayton, Madisound stuff and haven't ever been impressed with it, at least compared to a commercial offering.


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## Sixtusv (Jan 4, 2015)

Thank you all for your continued contributions. You all have opened up new ways of looking at mid-range speakers and confirmed my intuition that listening to multiple drivers is the only way I will be able to make informed decisions. 

My time and resources are limited, which leaves me with your recommendations to narrow down the field to two or three top candidates. I hope/trust that my selections lead down a relatively straight forward path towards better audio, but I also realize that alternative combinatiosn may also lead to solutions that provide comparable sound quality. As I read in another thread, "it's not the ____of the driver that counts, it's how you use it" 

It may be a while before I'm able to test and report on the results, but I hope to do that later this summer.

Thanks again - Six.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

lashlee said:


> To second what was stated earlier about the Hertz line of drivers, they sound fantastic. I used a set of HSK163's in the last car and now have Mille ML280's, ML700's and ML1600's in my Accord. They sound great out of the box compared to my other car (Dyn MD100's, MW140's and MW170's) both active. I competed against alot of guys with Legatia's (and talked to Scott about sponsorship after I won national points) but plans changed and I quit competing (another story for another day). I've heard some of the PE, Dayton, Madisound stuff and haven't ever been impressed with it, at least compared to a commercial offering.



That sounds like an excellent system. What ate you powering them with in your Accord? Was upgrading alternator & battery required? Last have you heard any of there sister company so the speak in Audison? Never heard them, yet many say the Thesis line sounds better than the Legend. The Thesis line is no longer produced, rarely available, high priced, but I'd love to get a pair of the Sax and Basso 

I'm determined to put a few Hertz Mille speakers in a tower. two ML 1650.3, two ML 700.3, one ribbon tweeter, one ML 2000.3 or ML 2500.3 in each enclosure. 

New to DIY audio, yet don't see better drivers available. Morel has some very solid gear. My understanding is you cannot buy the drivers used in high end gear. May be different with other companies, I'd appreciate the info if you know?
, with KEF you have to own a speaker in the line to buy a replacement. The R series 6.5 woofer is $200, 5' MF with 1' Uni-Q is $180 which is the same price as the drivers in the legendary LS50


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## lashlee (Mar 31, 2014)

I'm using two Phoenix Gold amps, one Ti21600.5 (ML280s, ML700s and the IDQ12v3) and a Ti21000.4 (the ML1600's off the fronts with spare channels if I ever decide to run rears) in a 2014 Accord Hybrid. I didn't upgrade the front battery and there isn't an alternator (just a DC/DC convertor) and it's awesome! There isn't any dimming since the 12v battery has a 259v battery supplying it as it needs extra power. To be honest I'm only using a single 4 awg power wire to feed both amps plus a PS8 processor. I've heard some the of Thesis stuff in a few cars over the years while competing but I haven't personally owned any. 

As for the tower, I'd love to hear it! That's an awesome line up. I looked into the Mille subs, I just didn't have the depth since I was building a spare tire well enclosure and didn't want to raise the floor more than 3/4" for the trim panel. 

Here is a link to the post of the install, before the ML700's and second amp were installed: Hybrid EX-L SQ based install


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## maxserg (Dec 11, 2008)

Atc sm75-15008 ?


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