# DACs with Gizmo for computer 2.1



## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

What DACs have people used with Gizmo in a computer 2.1?

A front runner for me is the Cambridge DACmagic. But there is no volume control, just on/off; so I'd have to pull Gizmo out from the back and use it's controls but then there's flashing lights when you put it in standby...

The Matrix Mini.i looks interesting as it has a pre-amp mode with volume control. Is there an issue with sending that type of signal to Gizmo, or would that be a good combo.

Just trying to figure out the best way to get great sound from my computer/Gizmo 1.0 combo.

Thanks for thoughts...

Edit: Am I understanding the shortcomings of my Gizmo 1.0 correctly in that a volume control on the DAC is important?


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## sandbagger (Oct 10, 2009)

Rick

I am not real familiar with the gizmo but, you shouldn't need a vol control on the DAC since the gizmo has vol control.

Take a look at this thread 
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2142

The Onix DAC25 will be shipping out to the dealers on monday, MSRP is $630.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

Thanks, that one looks really nice. A bit more than i was looking to spend, but quite a unit.

I know the Gizmo has a volume control, but because it's LED is so bright I try to leave it at one setting and hidden under the desk by the sub.

So my main volume control has been on the PC. I may have found a way to control SPDIF volume on the PC, so that would open up DACs without volume control.

Thanks for the link to the other DAC thread too.


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

The volume control on your computer may not perform attenuation correctly. It depends. You should do some research into whatever software you're using to find out.


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## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

I have been on the same hunt for a while. I am considering the Zero usb dac. it seems solid. i have a buddy with it and he enjoys it. Plus it has the headphone section. my only beef with it is its size. its about 2x as wide as the gizmo. there is also the beresford with similar faeatures. i dont know about its SQ but the buzz is good.


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## HAL (Sep 22, 2009)

You might want to watch the DAC shootout going on soon with GR-Research and Dodd Audio on AudioCircle. They are going to give a few units a blind test to see what sounds best. Some of the units have USB inputs.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

HAL said:


> You might want to watch the DAC shootout going on soon with GR-Research and Dodd Audio on AudioCircle. They are going to give a few units a blind test to see what sounds best. Some of the units have USB inputs.


Do you have a link to the specific thread by any chance (or which Circle is it in)?

Thanks


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## HAL (Sep 22, 2009)

rick240 said:


> Do you have a link to the specific thread by any chance (or which Circle is it in)?
> 
> Thanks


In this thread about 1/2 way down is Danny's post starting to talk about the DAC comparison.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74129.0


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

HAL said:


> In this thread about 1/2 way down is Danny's post starting to talk about the DAC comparison.
> 
> http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74129.0


Thanks, I was looking for it too.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

You said Gizmo 1.0 and 2.1 which means you must either mod the Gizmo or have volume control on the dac or source. The sub volume is fixed on aa G 1.0 so you can only use its volume adjustments if you are strictly 2.0 and not 2.1. 

There are a lot of products that suit the bill for less than $20 to over $1000. A USB sound card with stereo RCA outs is what you are probably looking for. If the device is marketed as a DAC it will usually be in the higher price points which may not make sense for a "budget" computer system. I just don't see using a $600 DAC with a $80 amp and $200 speakers.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

m-fine said:


> You said Gizmo 1.0 and 2.1 which means you must either mod the Gizmo or have volume control on the dac or source. The sub volume is fixed on aa G 1.0 so you can only use its volume adjustments if you are strictly 2.0 and not 2.1.
> 
> There are a lot of products that suit the bill for less than $20 to over $1000. A USB sound card with stereo RCA outs is what you are probably looking for. If the device is marketed as a DAC it will usually be in the higher price points which may not make sense for a "budget" computer system. I just don't see using a $600 DAC with a $80 amp and $200 speakers.


Exactly the problem I'm running into.

I have my computer going direct to Gizmo and then feeding a pair of Kef 2001.2 (great little speakers, but like you said, cost $200 even if a good deal) and then a cheap Jamo sub.

I'm thinking that a DAC would make a significant sound improvement but it is hard to justify spending more on the DAC than amp+speakers+sub.

The two nice ones with volume control I have found are a Matrix Mini.i ($350 on eBay) or an Onix DAC25 (see http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42005&postcount=3) which looks like it will be $620.

Are there other DAC/Pre's out there to consider?

Edit: I am also keen to see what Emotiva comes out with, it may have a volume control.


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## Jason Brent (Mar 28, 2009)

http://diyclub.biz/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=270

don't know anything about the company....but I did find a few positive user comments about this one.


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## bunnyma357 (Apr 19, 2008)

I've got the non-USB version of the Zero Dac and have been very happy with it. It was around $170 shipped has volume control, 24/192, headphone amp and the Op-Amps are on sockets so it is easy to upgrade later if you feel like it.

They now have a USB model, although I haven't had any experience with it:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Zero-09-24BIT-1...ultDomain_0?hash=item4cec93e3f7#ht_8279wt_848

(No experience or affiliation with the eBay seller - just posted as an example - there are many others selling the DAC)


Jim C


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

If you are looking for a cheap easy solution that will sound "good enough" but obviously not high end audiophile quality, try something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-Con...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1261320755&sr=8-10

There are dozens of products like this at varius price points that will do the trick and be a solid step up from the built in audio in most PC's and laptops.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

Here is another popular card, better analog out than the Behrninger...

http://www.google.com/products/cata...ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCAQ8wIwAg#ps-sellers


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

Then there are products like the super pro...

http://www.diykits.com.hk/dac_super_pro_dac707.htm

or various units from Hot audio....

http://www.hotaudio.com/zen-cart/index.php


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

This is the Hot audio DAC I was thinking about buying for exactly this use. It runs full volume through the DAC stage and then has the volume control on the output side. It also had a headphone out but only for larger headphones (watch impedance on the little guys).

http://hotaudio.com/zen-cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=201


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## HAL (Sep 22, 2009)

If you are thinking about any HiRez music recordings playing back via USB, then pay close attention to the bit rates and sample rates the DAC's will work with natively. These would be recordings from HDTracks in the 24bit/96KHz area or playback from DVD or DVD-A.

The E-MU will do 24bit/192KHz native mode over USB2.0. The others have varyng rates from 16bit/48KHz to 24bit/96KHz over USB1.1.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

Thanks for all of the good suggestions and feedback.

So, my conclusions:

- with Gizmo 1.0 the DAC needs a volume control, and there are good options in the $100 - $350 (and then of course way more, but that's silly in a system where speakers+amp+sub cost ~$500)

- if I get it modded to 1.0M then a DAC without volume control becomes an option

Does anyone have a link to a good discussion of SPDIF vs USB?


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

rick240 said:


> Thanks for all of the good suggestions and feedback.
> 
> So, my conclusions:
> 
> - with Gizmo 1.0 the DAC needs a volume control,


You need some form of volume control, which can be hardware or software. When done in software there are different methods which will impact the SQ to varying degrees. I believe Windows 7 & and Vista handle this well now, but I would research it a bit. Still, a knob is nice to have IMHO.




> - if I get it modded to 1.0M then a DAC without volume control becomes an option


You also can do this to your 1.0 to essentially make it a 1.0M...

http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415

BUT ( and a BIG but) If you go this route, you may run in to the Gizmo input distortion issue. In short the Gizmo 1.0 (not sure about 1.0M) distorts when the input signal is over 3 volts. The problem is we don't know if that is 3 volts RMS, or 3 volts peak to peak, so with out further testing, I can not tell you which DAC's have an output voltage that will match well with the Gizmo.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

m-fine said:


> BUT ( and a BIG but) If you go this route, you may run in to the Gizmo input distortion issue. In short the Gizmo 1.0 (not sure about 1.0M) distorts when the input signal is over 3 volts. The problem is we don't know if that is 3 volts RMS, or 3 volts peak to peak, so with out further testing, I can not tell you which DAC's have an output voltage that will match well with the Gizmo.


Thanks for the link.

Still no answer on the RMS vs peak question. I saw your other thread on this too - have you sent PMs. Seems it should be a simple question to answer.

Of course with 1.1 it is supposed to be 9V instead of 3 (did Craig's post about this mention RMS vs peak, I forget).


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

No answer, tried PMs to Doug. Anyone know the output voltage range for an Oppo 980? I know that can trigger the problem.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

Well, I just took a plunge and hopefully all works out.

I just ordered a Beresford Caiman Dac/pre.

I will let you all know how it sounds and works after I get it...


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

Sweet, you will be able to answer the voltage question for us! 

The Beresford output is 2 V rms which is a little over 5.6 v P2P if I remember the conversion corectly. So, if you have no distortion at full volume than the Gizmo can handle 3 v RMS. If you do have distortion at max volume or on the fixed outs, we can assume the max is 3 v P2P.


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

rick240 said:


> Does anyone have a link to a good discussion of SPDIF vs USB?


If you're asking with respect to sound quality, it really all depends on the implementation put inside the product. I personally don't like electrically coupling a computer to audio electronics, but that's completely separate from the signal transfer.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

NekoAudio said:


> If you're asking with respect to sound quality, it really all depends on the implementation put inside the product.


OK, so you are saying there is no general rule as to one over the other. With your DAC which would be better, and why?

Since my DAC manufacturer has said good-better-best for it is USB-optical-coax I will go coax, I was just wondering if there was some technical explanation rather than just blind faith.



NekoAudio said:


> I personally don't like electrically coupling a computer to audio electronics, but that's completely separate from the signal transfer.


Care to expand on this? I'd be interested (either here or a separate thread).


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

rick240 said:


> OK, so you are saying there is no general rule as to one over the other. With your DAC which would be better, and why?


There are a few different ways you can implement the S/PDIF receiver circuit. The simplest will just take in the S/PDIF signal and attempt to convert it to whatever internal format your DAC chips need, often I2S.

A slightly more advanced one will reclock the incoming S/PDIF signal to avoid the possibly jittery clock derived from the S/PDIF signal itself. And past that you could buffer as well as reclock to get even better results. (A basic reclock may not buffer samples, and just ensure the output bit flips at the desired clock cycle. Which may result in an incorrect value.)

A coaxial input should also be transformer coupled. I believe all pro audio gear will make sure this is the case, but this is not necessarily true for consumer audiophile gear since there's quite a lot of gear out there that doesn't follow good engineering practices.

Some people prefer coaxial due to claims there is less inherent jitter over coaxial. I haven't seen any evidence of this though. Maybe this was true before and not now? Don't know. Some people also prefer that the coaxial connector be BNC instead of RCA because it will provide a true 75 ohm input impedance which should be better for the signal transfer.

There are a few different USB receiver chips available, but the turnkey ones only support up to 48kHz. If you want to go higher, either you need to write your own software driver and USB firmware, or your own firmware that matches with the USB audio specification. Only a few companies have written firmware to support over 48kHz.

There are also a few different ways to implement the USB receiver. The most commonly mentioned difference is adaptive versus asynchronous which refer to two different USB data transfer control modes. The latter is better because it allows the device to have more control over the data delivery rate. Also, the USB receiver has a choice of how it will buffer the received data.

I have heard someone who has worked on USB audio state USB has an inherent periodic jitter due to its clock, and overall more jitter than S/PDIF unless you use asynchronous mode.

I haven't heard anyone address the issue of possibly incorrect data being received. My understanding of the USB transfer protocols indicate that for audio if an incorrect packet is received then you lose the whole packet of data. Kind of like UDP transfers instead of TCP transfers over the Internet.

With respect to the Neko Audio D100, I use a Wolfson WM8804 which buffers and reclocks so I don't suggest the coaxial or optical is better than the other. I didn't provide a BNC jack because that connection is relatively rare. I suggest optical if you might be connecting to a noisy device because I've seen poorly constructed computer audio cards and noise carry down a coaxial cable.



rick240 said:


> Since my DAC manufacturer has said good-better-best for it is USB-optical-coax I will go coax, I was just wondering if there was some technical explanation rather than just blind faith.


They're probably the best ones to provide a technical answer as to exactly why that order is what they recommend for their product.


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

Thanks Wes, I appreciated that info.


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

rick240 said:


> Thanks Wes, I appreciated that info.


You're welcome.


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

*MS 2.25 Volts RMS overloading TCA Gizmo?*



m-fine said:


> You need some form of volume control, which can be hardware or software. When done in software there are different methods which will impact the SQ to varying degrees. I believe Windows 7 & and Vista handle this well now, but I would research it a bit. Still, a knob is nice to have IMHO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





rick240 said:


> Thanks for the link.
> 
> Still no answer on the RMS vs peak question. I saw your other thread on this too - have you sent PMs. Seems it should be a simple question to answer.
> 
> Of course with 1.1 it is supposed to be 9V instead of 3 (did Craig's post about this mention RMS vs peak, I forget).





m-fine said:


> Sweet, you will be able to answer the voltage question for us!
> 
> The Beresford output is 2 V rms which is a little over 5.6 v P2P if I remember the conversion corectly. So, if you have no distortion at full volume than the Gizmo can handle 3 v RMS. If you do have distortion at max volume or on the fixed outs, we can assume the max is 3 v P2P.


I bought the *High Resolution Technologies (HRT)* *Music Streamer* (MS) (standard not "plus") on sale ($70 NHT) to try with one of my office setups with the Gizmo.

I'm not sure if this is a v1.0 or 1.0M, but it might be a 1.0.

The bass sounded really muddy when I first hooked it up.

Per the Music Streamer instructions I set the computer volume in the "Control Panel" to maximum.

The speakers are pretty close to me, but I can only set the Gizmo volume on minimum (02). 

*I wonder if I'm overloading the inputs?*
The MS says the full scale output is *2.25 Volts RMS*.
Anyone else run this combo?

Thanks.

Mike

Specifications for Music Streamer :
*Electrical: Full Scale output 2.25 Volts RMS *
Frequency Response: (20 Hz/20 kHz) -.3 dB / -1.8 dB 
Noise Floor: (DC to 30 kHz) 174 uV RMS 
Noise Floor: (A-weighted) 110 uV RMS 
S/N Ratio: (DC to 30 kHz) 82 dB 
S/N Ratio: (A-weighted) 86 dB 
THD+N: (1 kHz FS) 0.06% 
USB to Audio output isolation: > 20M Ohm 
Interface Data Rate: 48kS/s 
Bit Depth: 16 bit 
USB type: 1.1 
Power Requirements (USB buss): 250 mA 
Dimensions: (L x W x H) 4.1" x 2.1" x 1.2"


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

Mike_TX said:


> I bought the *High Resolution Technologies (HRT)* *Music Streamer* (MS) (standard not "plus") on sale ($70 NHT) to try with one of my office setups with the Gizmo.
> 
> I'm not sure if this is a v1.0 or 1.0M, but it might be a 1.0.
> 
> ...



I wanted to pull the trigger on the Music Streamer for $70, but since no one knows what the input voltage limit is for Gizmo... I went for the NuForce uDAC, since it has a variable analog output. It's rated at 2V RMS (at full output I assume).

When using the USB out, the PC's volume control should have no effect on the actual volume level. Some programs' can be used to control volume... for instance, WinAmp... but the PC's master volume is essentially disabled.


When you say you can only set it to 2... do you mean if you go higher it sounds distorted, or that even at 2 it's still louder than you want but can't set it lower?

The NuForce uDAC might be a good option instead of the HRT. Another you might want to check out is the new Jolida FX DAC Mini. It has a 3.1V peak-to-peak output, which is 1.55V peak, or 1.1V RMS.


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

alphaii -

I can't play with volume too much as I'm in a shared office setting with it.
at "02" volume it is slightly louder than I might otherwise have it set at.

You are correct that the windows volume control doesn't change anything.

I could also do without a DAC at all at this location, just thought for $70 I'd play with one to see how it worked.

Thanks for other options.

Mike


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

I tried the MS with my other office system:
Emotiva UPA-2, (ERC-1), USP-1, and TCA WAF-1

Noticeable improvement in clarity and "a veil lifted" type of experience.
Nice.
I really didn't know what to expect since this is my first DAC, and it's $70, but I think it did noticably improve things.

Mike


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## rick240 (Apr 25, 2008)

Well, I ended up getting the Beresford Caiman, and it's a great DAC.

I'm going through my Gizmo 1.0 to a pair of Kef 2001.2 and a Jamo Sub200.

Not sure how to test whether the voltage is an issue, any suggestions?


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

So the MS DAC sounds better with the other system but worse with Gizmo? Sounds like the answer may be 3v peak to peak. 

FWIW, I found the input voltage issue caused crackle/fuzz type distortion that was very noticeable but it varies with source and how much you exceed the voltage limit.


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

m-fine said:


> So the MS DAC sounds better with the other system but worse with Gizmo? Sounds like the answer may be 3v peak to peak.
> 
> FWIW, I found the input voltage issue caused crackle/fuzz type distortion that was very noticeable but it varies with source and how much you exceed the voltage limit.



Well, it could be 3V peak, or 3V peak-to-peak input limit, right?

The HRT DAC is 2.25V RMS, so about 3.2V peak, or 6.4V peak-to-peak.

I would hope the Gizmo has a 3V peak input limit, and not 3V peak-to-peak... A 3VPP limit would mean an RMS limit of about 1.1V...not very high at all. 


In the case of the NuForce uDAC... I get noticeable distortion if I set the DAC's volume, even at volume 2 on Gizmo. The uDAC has an ouput voltage of 2V RMS when set at max volume.

I think it's safe to say the input limit for Gizmo is NOT 3V RMS...

The Jolida FX Mini DAC has an ouput voltage of 3.1VPP (so about 1.1V RMS). If anyone tries it with Gizmo, it should answer the question as to whether Gizmo's input limit is 3V peak or 3VPP.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

If the nuforce causes distortion at 2.0v rms, that is 2.828 peak and therefore the Gizmo must be limited to 3 volts p2p. Remember only a recording with 0 dbfs peaks will tickle the max voltage from the DAC, so if you hear the distortion often and easily, your DAC is likely able to push well past the limit. 

3vpp is a pretty severe limitation, but that seems to jive with experience.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

rick240 said:


> Well, I ended up getting the Beresford Caiman, and it's a great DAC.
> 
> I'm going through my Gizmo 1.0 to a pair of Kef 2001.2 and a Jamo Sub200.
> 
> Not sure how to test whether the voltage is an issue, any suggestions?


Turn DAC/input volume to max, play music with high levels and or max peaks. If it sounds like **** even at moderate volume levels (adjusted on Gizmo) you have a voltage issue. To verify, turn down source/DAC volume and see if things clear up. Using the variable out RCA's on my Oppo 980, there is a night and day difference between Oppo at max and after the volume is turned down a couple of clicks.


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

m-fine said:


> If the nuforce causes distortion at 2.0v rms, that is 2.828 peak and therefore the Gizmo must be limited to 3 volts p2p. Remember only a recording with 0 dbfs peaks will tickle the max voltage from the DAC, so if you hear the distortion often and easily, your DAC is likely able to push well past the limit.
> 
> 3vpp is a pretty severe limitation, but that seems to jive with experience.


Good call on the NuForce peak output... So it does seem Gizmo is limited to 3VPP. 

That basically limits one to use a DAC with a variable output, since most fixed output DACs have ouput voltages on par with or higher than the HRT and NuForce DACs.

The 2 budget DACs with fixed output that may work are the HotAudio DAC Destroyer and the new Jolida FX Mini DAC, although the Jolida is sitting just above what seems to be the Gizmo's input voltage limit. 

So really, the DAC Destroyer is the only safe bet I can think of for fixed output budget DACs.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

Given the price of the Hot audio line, why not get one of their variable out DAC's anyway? If you watch his sales or ask nicely (make an offer) you can get the DAC straight for well under $100. I have never heard one, and I am aware of the limitations of the hardware he is using (look at price...DUH) but it looks like a pretty decent option for a small DAC with an analog variable out that is mostly within the Gizmo range. The Gizmo is not a piece of high end gear anyway, so I just don't see myself ever spending more than the $75-$150 range for a DAC to pair with it.


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

m-fine said:


> Given the price of the Hot audio line, why not get one of their variable out DAC's anyway? If you watch his sales or ask nicely (make an offer) you can get the DAC straight for well under $100. I have never heard one, and I am aware of the limitations of the hardware he is using (look at price...DUH) but it looks like a pretty decent option for a small DAC with an analog variable out that is mostly within the Gizmo range. The Gizmo is not a piece of high end gear anyway, so I just don't see myself ever spending more than the $75-$150 range for a DAC to pair with it.


True... I guess I didn't give a good look at what all products he offers. The DAC Destroyer can be had for like $55-60 if buying through ebay and using bing cashback. But the Bit-Perfect DAC isn't a whole lot more, and you get variable out. I don't know if they use the same chip or not...

BTW, the DAC Straight is fixed, and no headphone. 

And I agree about the price range... spending 2-3x what the Gizmo costs on a DAC wasn't going to work for me. Luckily, NuForce released the uDAC before I starting searching hard for a budget option.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

Ooops brain typo, meant bitperfect not straight


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

m-fine said:


> So the MS DAC sounds better with the other system but worse with Gizmo? Sounds like the answer may be 3v peak to peak.
> 
> FWIW, I found the input voltage issue caused crackle/fuzz type distortion that was very noticeable but it varies with source and how much you exceed the voltage limit.


I think the Gizmo I was using was a 1.0 (original).
I don't know if the v1.0M is different.

MS DAC + Gizmo v1.0 (org) = not good
MS DAC + Emotiva USP-1 + UPA-2 = good

It wasn't an expensive adventure to find it out, but I thought a $70 venture into DACs was worth it.

I may get the Emotiva DAC when it comes out and do something with the HRT MS DAC at that time.

Mike 

PS -- ...and then there is the TCA WAF-1 Ninja mod coming up...:thumbsup:


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

Mike_TX said:


> I think the Gizmo I was using was a 1.0 (original).
> I don't know if the v1.0M is different.
> 
> MS DAC + Gizmo v1.0 (org) = not good
> ...


The mod for the V1.0M only addressed the sub out volume control. The input voltage limit is the same, and was going to be upped to 9V with the v1.1, which will not be produced.

I have the v1.0M, and I get distortion with the NuForce uDAC at max volume.


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

Alphaii -

Thanks for the info.
I recently got another Gizmo (v1.0M) when I ordered my WAF-1's to send to the Ninja.
I was going to test it out, but I guess there is no need now.
Bummer.
I probably would have picked up some v1.1's if they were made.
Sorry I missed the DACMAN now.

Mike


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## Maximum kahuna (Mar 5, 2008)

I'm not sure why, but I was able to get rid of the distortion that I had with HRT DAC and my Gizmo by going to a mid-level set of interconnects. I go computer -> HRT DAC via USB -> tube buffer -> Gizmo 1.0. I originally hooked up the HRT DAC using an old set of interconnects that I had hanging around and I could definitely hear the distortion. I scored some MAC Ultra Silver sound pipes on an Audiogon auction and the distortion is gone. Seems like a relatively inexpensive fix.


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

Maximum kahuna said:


> I'm not sure why, but I was able to get rid of the distortion that I had with HRT DAC and my Gizmo by going to a mid-level set of interconnects. I go computer -> HRT DAC via USB -> tube buffer -> Gizmo 1.0. I originally hooked up the HRT DAC using an old set of interconnects that I had hanging around and I could definitely hear the distortion. I scored some MAC Ultra Silver sound pipes on an Audiogon auction and the distortion is gone. Seems like a relatively inexpensive fix.


Weird.
If it is a voltage issues, why should the interconnects fix it?
If not voltage...?

Mike


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## NekoAudio (Feb 9, 2009)

Maybe if you post a picture of the interconnects that were creating a problem? If replacing the interconnects fixed it, your issue probably wasn't distortion but instead noise/interference or a bad connection.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

Or the new interconnects have a high resistence that is cutting the signal voltage. The input distortion is caused by physical operating limits, I believe of an opamp in the input stage. The only ways to fix it are to keep the input voltage low, reduce the input voltage, or mod the gizmo to bypass the opamp like dweekie's mods.


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

m-fine said:


> Or the new interconnects have a high resistence that is cutting the signal voltage. The input distortion is caused by physical operating limits, I believe of an opamp in the input stage. The only ways to fix it are to keep the input voltage low, reduce the input voltage, ormod the gizmo to bypass the opamp lime dweekie's mods.


That's what I wondered.

Mike


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## hermeslyre (May 11, 2010)

Fist time poster bumping an old thread. I'm relatively new to all this so bear with me.

I received my WAF-1/Gizmo combo on Saturday. I have it hooked up to my UDAC and I'm not to happy with the distortion I'm getting through it. If I've followed this thread closely enough, the Hotaudio Bitperfect would be a better solution? I'm planning on picking it up next week if so. Also The speaker (amp?) seem to cut out for a second randomly(though not to frequently), could this be another effect of the voltage issue?

I've got a Mirage Prestige S10 from Vanns clearance on the way, I believe alpha mention it over on AVS, Imma just thank him for mentioning it cause I was looking for something good in that price range and I think I got what I was looking for.


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

hermeslyre said:


> Fist time poster bumping an old thread. I'm relatively new to all this so bear with me.
> 
> I received my WAF-1/Gizmo combo on Saturday. I have it hooked up to my UDAC and I'm not to happy with the distortion I'm getting through it. If I've followed this thread closely enough, the Hotaudio Bitperfect would be a better solution? I'm planning on picking it up next week if so. Also The speaker (amp?) seem to cut out for a second randomly(though not to frequently), could this be another effect of the voltage issue?
> 
> I've got a Mirage Prestige S10 from Vanns clearance on the way, I believe alpha mention it over on AVS, Imma just thank him for mentioning it cause I was looking for something good in that price range and I think I got what I was looking for.


How high are you setting the uDAC's volume control?

At full volume, the uDAC's output voltage is high enough to cause distortion problems with the Gizmo. 

Lowering the uDAC's output to 1/2 volume or less should solve your problem. I run my setup with Gizmo at volume 24, and adjust the uDAC's volume to the level I want. With Gizmo at 24, I've only gone as high as roughly 1/2 on the uDAC, since at that point it's pretty dang loud. I haven't had any issues with distortion using this method.

If I set the uDAC to full output, I can notice the distortion even with the Gizmo's volume at only 4.


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## hermeslyre (May 11, 2010)

If I keep the udac around the 11 o'clock position the distortion issue seems to go away, regardless of the volume of the amp. Any higher and it gets pretty apparent. 

Maybe it's my room or seating arrangement but stock 24 on the Gizmo and 1/2 on the udac is very moderate volume to my ears (Or maybe I'm just a loud type of listener). Listening to the gizmo maxed with the udac @ 11 is pretty dang loud to my ears though. Overloud. However I've been meaning the A/B one of the hotaudio dacs to the UDAC and I think this is a good opportunity if I can convince myself to buy one. Would the Bitperfect offer a superior solution in this situation you think? Would it be able to go louder, not to sound deaf. 

Edit: The clipping (would that be the term?) of the amp seems to happen most when hooked up to my PS3 and with the volume high, could I be pushing the amp too hard? When it was cutting out I didn't think the volume was overloud in any respect though...


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