# Sealed TMW design DIY project



## penngray (Feb 21, 2007)

Figured I would start a thread here. I have had lots of discussion over on AVS about wanting speakers that can keep up with my twin DIY subs and it seems a Tweeter, mid range and a 10 or 12" woofer will do the trick.

I have just started reading about each component and learning about crossovers. I have had a couple of suggestions that I might want to get a 6 channel amp and a DCX2496 to handle all power and crossovers externally. That sounds very interesting to me because Im just not sure I will be able to build a good enough crossover otherwise.

I have some room constraints.

I have built in positions for all my Mains, they are cabinets (24 H x 14.5 W x 16 D) so the speakers have to fit that size, they have to be sealed and I have to make sure my crossover setup handles being close of flush with my screen wall.


Initial list of possibilities.....

PHL B25-3002 10" Bass 
PHL X17-1240TWX Coax

Lambda TD12H
PHL 1120
NeoPro 5i

Undecided between Dome or ribbon tweeters, someone posted on AVS that dome tweeters will have a harder time keeping up with the SPL my subs can put out although Im not sure I need HIGH SPL tweeters.


Thats about it for now all comments are welcome!! Even the "You are not smart for having Cabinets" comments


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## BoomieMCT (Dec 11, 2006)

*Re: Sealed TMW design DIY prodject*

So this is for a 2.1 channel setup?


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## penngray (Feb 21, 2007)

*Re: Sealed TMW design DIY prodject*

No this is for a 5.2 setup.

My surrounds already exist, surrounds sound for movies does not need timbre matching. I have done enough testing to realize it just isnt that important.

Once I build my Mains, I will use similar products, design to build my CC which can not be the same size. I should still have a sonic signature that matches.


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## penngray (Feb 21, 2007)

*Re: Sealed TMW design DIY prodject*

Dayton Reference Series design vs Lambda/PHL/higher end Tweeter design

Sure subjectively Dayton Reference designs dont come close to the Lambda designs but will I actually tell and hear the difference??


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

*Re: Sealed TMW design DIY prodject*



penngray said:


> Dayton Reference Series design vs Lambda/PHL/higher end Tweeter design
> 
> Sure subjectively Dayton Reference designs dont come close to the Lambda designs but will I actually tell and hear the difference??


Sure no two speakers sound the same when you A/B them. Will one necessarily sound worse than the other? I don't know. Sometimes you listen and two speakers sound very similar, but you can't pick which one's better. However, above 112db @ 1M, I'm sure you will easily be able to tell.


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## Bill Fitzmaurice (Jun 14, 2008)

Chances are you'd be a lot better off with a two way MTM with 6.5s than a 3 way with larger woofers. You don't need large woofers when you've got subs on the low end, 6.5s will reach to a tweeters range so you don't need the complexity of a 3 way, and dual 6.5s will have higher sensitivity than a single woofer.


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## mayhem13 (Feb 2, 2008)

I'm working on some two ways now with B&C 8ndl51s and Morel mds 30 tweeters in a waveguide in .5 cubes sealed to go above 2 dual 10" subs. Many have reported that the 8NDL51 is the best 8" driver they've ever heard-and at 93db sensativity and 200w rms what's not to like ? The Morels in the waveguide should match well in sensitivity and they can handle some serious power. The freq response of the B&C looks really good up to 2.5khz, so my crossover point of 1450hz with the waveguide should make for a nice match. if you're looking to go high sensitivity, check out B&C.


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

Bill Fitzmaurice said:


> Chances are you'd be a lot better off with a two way MTM with 6.5s than a 3 way with larger woofers. You don't need large woofers when you've got subs on the low end, 6.5s will reach to a tweeters range so you don't need the complexity of a 3 way, and dual 6.5s will have higher sensitivity than a single woofer.


Sometimes people want more output than what two 6.5's can put out. Above 500hz, they'll work great, below 150hz, output is limited.


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## Bill Fitzmaurice (Jun 14, 2008)

looneybomber said:


> Sometimes people want more output than what two 6.5's can put out. Above 500hz, they'll work great, below 150hz, output is limited.


Depending on the driver. With an xmax of 5mm, which isn't unusual, a pair of 6.5s can run with a 113dB capability all the way to 60 Hz. If one needs more than that: line array.


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

Bill Fitzmaurice said:


> Depending on the driver. With an xmax of 5mm, which isn't unusual, a pair of 6.5s can run with a 113dB capability all the way to 60 Hz. If one needs more than that: line array.


True, linearray's would be the way to go, but I've been told by my interior designer that I cannot have speakers that big. The next best thing for someone that can't have 7ft tall speakers would be a high efficiency 3way design that can also handle quite a bit of power. That means expensive, purpose built drivers. No mid's with 5mm xmax, but mids with 1-2mm xmax and a 97-99db sensitivity. Unfortunately, they wont really go much below 500hz with great output, so large, highly efficient woofers are needed. However again, due to their lack of xmax, a subwoofer is needed. Essentially it's a 4way system, but you already knew that 

Some of us are a bit nuts and want over 120db @ 1M. I do, not because I listen that loud in my house, but because I have parties and am thinking about throwing some outdoor movie parties. Again, linearray's would work great for that, but I can't have speakers that big in my house.


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## Bill Fitzmaurice (Jun 14, 2008)

looneybomber said:


> True, linearray's would be the way to go, but I've been told by my interior designer that I cannot have speakers that big. The next best thing for someone that can't have 7ft tall speakers


You wouldn't want one that high anyway, not unless the listening position is at least 21 feet away. Many arrays are too high for the room, leading to pathway differential sourced response anomalies. My HT arrays are less than 4 feet high, loaded with eight fours and a dozen 3/8" domes, and they capable of well over 120 dB to 100 Hz. That's tame compared to my horn loaded cabs, but more than enough for my livingroom.


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

What's that equation for figuring the frequency for near field vs far field drop off at a certain distance? I forget. I remember looking into linearray's back in the day and at my listening distance of roughly 4M, I was wanting a midrange height of around 6.5ft.


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## Bill Fitzmaurice (Jun 14, 2008)

looneybomber said:


> What's that equation for figuring the frequency for near field vs far field drop off at a certain distance? I forget. I remember looking into linearray's back in the day and at my listening distance of roughly 4M, I was wanting a midrange height of around 6.5ft.


I've got it floating around somewhere, but I seldom make use of it even in pro-sound situations. It's just not all that important unless you're doing power taper calcs for a major concert venue and if so that's why you have a laptop loaded with SMAART. In home all I concern myself with is using enough drivers to get the desired sensitivity. Nearfield/farfield transition is the last thing I concern myself with in a 15 foot room.


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## penngray (Feb 21, 2007)

*Re: Sealed TMW design DIY prodject*



> Chances are you'd be a lot better off with a two way MTM with 6.5s than a 3 way with larger woofers. You don't need large woofers when you've got subs on the low end, 6.5s will reach to a tweeters range so you don't need the complexity of a 3 way, and dual 6.5s will have higher sensitivity than a single woofer.



I have enough 6.5" speakers to know that is not the answer.

Im not looking to change designs either, 10 or 12" woofer, 6.5 midrange and an very good tweeter is the best design I can build for max SQ and SPL, this is comfirmed by several experts in emails and PMs.

I dont want too compromise! I would just use one of my 6 different brands I own already if this is a compromise.


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

Bill Fitzmaurice said:


> My HT arrays are less than 4 feet high, loaded with eight fours and a dozen 3/8" domes, and they capable of well over 120 dB to 100 Hz.


That's not too bad, although it is bigger than what the OP specified "I have built in positions for all my Mains, they are cabinets (24 H x 14.5 W x 16 D) so the speakers have to fit that size". 

What tweeters are you using?


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