# Sources with the Gizmo? Distortion?



## skullguise (Apr 17, 2008)

So we have the speakers thread...what about sources?

Right now, one of my 2 Gizmo's is unhooked, but the other is in a system with a Toshiba DVD driving an Oritek-Modified Zhaolu (OMZ) DAC with variable output through headphone jack. It is driving a pair of Cherry ELT525's.

I had a problem with the Gizmo's, in that they had distortion & crackling when driven by the fixed outputs of 3 different DAC's, and also the analog outs of the DVD.

Craig thought they might be overdriven signal-wise, so suggested a volume-controlled source or attenutation of the signal through adapters or (if possible) DVD menu options.

The OMZ can be used as a preamp though it's ehadphone out, and indeed this worked to get rid of the distortion. So I've been using that since.

However, I just received a couple days ago some 6db RCA adapter/attenuators, and I STILL get distortion through the fixed outputs of the OMZ as well as a Promitheus NOS DAC I have.

The Promitheus has jumpers on the board to set the output voltage to 4V, 2V, or 1V. I had it at 2, then set it at one. Still distortion. Added attenuators; I heard the attenuation in effect, but STILL distortion!

This is definitely odd IMO. I like the sound a lot when driven by the variable out of my OMZ, but had hoped to be able to use a line level source, and sell off or reallocate the OMZ.

I know one other person had mentioned some distortion....has anyone else experienced this with line-level inputs to the Gizmo?


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

I tried 2 different players (oppo 980 and old Sony ES), and it distorrs with line level input or the variable input at max. I do not have attenuators to test.


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## emac (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm not sure if I'm experiencing what you're noticing since I don't get any crackling, but I hear some distortion centering around the drums, especially when there's also deep bass. The source is my Constantine DAC. Never noticed this problem before with the other amps I've used in the system. And honestly, I haven't had the chance nor the desire to mess around with other sources because I'm pretty fond of that DAC.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

Can you adjust the output level on it? If you reduce the levels on the input of the Gizmo and the problem goes away, or increase them and it gets worse/crackly you are hearing what we are, which is definitely an overdriven input.


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## emac (Feb 13, 2008)

m-fine said:


> Can you adjust the output level on it? If you reduce the levels on the input of the Gizmo and the problem goes away, or increase them and it gets worse/crackly you are hearing what we are, which is definitely an overdriven input.


Nope, no way to adjust the output without increasing the values of some of the caps in the DAC. No volume control on the CD player either.


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## emac (Feb 13, 2008)

So I guess I'm stuck with bass distortion since I can't adjust the volume coming into the Gizmo? That sucks since I don't have another system where using the Gizmo would be reasonable.


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## skullguise (Apr 17, 2008)

Emac, PM me with your name & address, I'll send you a pair of the attenuators I have for you to try if you're interested....may work for you.


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## emac (Feb 13, 2008)

skullguise said:


> Emac, PM me with your name & address, I'll send you a pair of the attenuators I have for you to try if you're interested....may work for you.


PM sent, though considering that you haven't had much luck with the attenuators, I'm not going to hold my breath.


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

emac said:


> So I guess I'm stuck with bass distortion since I can't adjust the volume coming into the Gizmo? That sucks since I don't have another system where using the Gizmo would be reasonable.


We are going to allow you to trade it for a 1.1, which will solve the problem. Is it possible to do more than this ? :thumbsup:


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## emac (Feb 13, 2008)

craigsub said:


> We are going to allow you to trade it for a 1.1, which will solve the problem. Is it possible to do more than this ? :thumbsup:


That'll work even better. Thank you, Craig.


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## skullguise (Apr 17, 2008)

I'll send a pair of my attenuators anyway to emac, so he can try something sooner rather than later. 

I may swap one of my 2 for a Gizmo 1.1, and use the other with variable volume source. This way, I can get some $ off another product..... :thumbsup:


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## laserman (Jun 9, 2006)

Craig,

Please count me in for one of the replacements.

I don't want this to look like I'm piling on with negative news, but I had a mini GTG today and attempted to have a system of the Gizmo, X-LS Encores, MFW-15 and Rega Planet to play at relatively low level and it didn't go well.

I was not driving the Gizmo very hard or playing overly bass heavy music like Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. When we put in a pre amp and a 55W SS amp, the problem went away. We noticed that on certain drum patterns, we were getting some distortion. It appeared as if the drum was out of phase or timing with the music as we recalled it from playing it non-Gizmo. It was a very strange musical sensation. We didn't notice this on every track, and it seemed to be centered around the drums when there was a decent amount attack energy of lower frequencies of a tom-tom or kick drum. We played an Eva Cassidy song where the guitar stumming caused some sort of clicking distortion. 

I had burned the unit in considerably before the GTG, but did not listen to it critically before this demonstration.

It sounds like Craig is on top of getting this and other issues resolved, so I look forward to the 1.1 version.

Peace,
Lou


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## emac (Feb 13, 2008)

laserman said:


> I was not driving the Gizmo very hard or playing overly bass heavy music like Bela Fleck and the Flecktones. When we put in a pre amp and a 55W SS amp, the problem went away. We noticed that on certain drum patterns, we were getting some distortion. It appeared as if the drum was out of phase or timing with the music as we recalled it from playing it non-Gizmo. It was a very strange musical sensation. We didn't notice this on every track, and it seemed to be centered around the drums when there was a decent amount attack energy of lower frequencies of a tom-tom or kick drum. We played an Eva Cassidy song where the guitar stumming caused some sort of clicking distortion.


A much more eloquent way of describing the problem I've run into with the Gizmo. So, thank you, Lou. I haven't noticed the clicking though. Haven't listened to it enough, may be? Either way, put me on the list for the 1.1 version.


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## skullguise (Apr 17, 2008)

Just bumping this. I got a very nice little Belles Soloist 3 preamp, great sound and quite the flexibility (5 inputs, 2 outputs, tape monitor, and HT bypass).

I've owned Belles in the past, he (David Belles)/they make some incredible gear. This 12" wide pre definitely has the family sound, even though it doesn't have tubes like some of their higher end preamps (and also the 250i integrated I owned).

In any case, this mates well with the Gizmo, producing a nice, full but pretty detailed sound. Driving the ELT525's very well, with good dynamics and hefty midbass (I have the bass up to 8). No overload on input either. Plenty of volume to spare, even had the wife complaining from the other room, with two closed doors :thumbsup:

Hope the attenuators are helping, Ed.

Need to comment positively again on Craig's QUICK handling of the situation with the Gizmo issues; if AV123 can respond as well and as quickly to the X-Head issues, I'll be a pig in a pile of doo-doo. So far, they're not quite there yet....


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## emac (Feb 13, 2008)

skullguise said:


> Hope the attenuators are helping, Ed.


The attenuators seem to help, but it seems like the distortion is still there. It's just less obvious. So, now rather than something being obviously wrong, the drums just don't sound clean. And considering that I usually listen to electronic music, that's still a problem. 

But thanks for your help with the attenuators. It was worth a try.


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## mditty (Oct 9, 2010)

Well way back when I first got the gizmo I hooked it up and had some distortion, but it was only some songs so I wasn't sure if it was the source or not. I listened to it occasionally and noticed the distortion was there on most things but it just showed up depending on the volume. After a month I finally got time to swap another another amp back in, so I swapped in an amp 100 for the Gizmo and the music sounds good again. Basically if I turn it up I get distortion on almost all songs and it isn't just the source material as the amp 100 works fine. It is basically the gizmo and source not getting along. But the bright LED was not getting along with sleeping with it plugged in either so it had to go to the office.

I put the gizmo back on the computer with much smaller speakers and it sounds much better there. Still seems like it might be overdriven by the PC sometimes, but turning the source down a bit seems to help.

Has there been any offical response on the Distortion problem some people are having yet?


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

miked said:


> Well way back when I first got the gizmo I hooked it up and had some distortion, but it was only some songs so I wasn't sure if it was the source or not. I listened to it occasionally and noticed the distortion was there on most things but it just showed up depending on the volume. After a month I finally got time to swap another another amp back in, so I swapped in an amp 100 for the Gizmo and the music sounds good again. Basically if I turn it up I get distortion on almost all songs and it isn't just the source material as the amp 100 works fine. It is basically the gizmo and source not getting along. But the bright LED was not getting along with sleeping with it plugged in either so it had to go to the office.
> 
> I put the gizmo back on the computer with much smaller speakers and it sounds much better there. Still seems like it might be overdriven by the PC sometimes, but turning the source down a bit seems to help.
> 
> Has there been any offical response on the Distortion problem some people are having yet?


Mike ... other than offering (which we did weeks ago) the option of swapping out for a Gizmo V1.1 at no charge for those who cannot make Gizmo 1.0 work with his/her current sources, were you looking for a further official response ?

Or perhaps you had not seen that option ?


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## mditty (Oct 9, 2010)

craigsub said:


> Mike ... other than offering (which we did weeks ago) the option of swapping out for a Gizmo V1.1 at no charge for those who cannot make Gizmo 1.0 work with his/her current sources, were you looking for a further official response ?
> 
> Or perhaps you had not seen that option ?


Hmm, I actually hadn't. So I went back and re-read the thread and saw your comment now. This is what I get for working too much lately :fryingpan:. Thanks Craig.

When the DAC-MAN comes out hopefully someone can comment on if that will drive the v1.0 gizmo without any distortion and if that is the case some v1.0 users might just keep it as the problem with go away with the the matching DAC.


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## skullguise (Apr 17, 2008)

miked said:


> When the DAC-MAN comes out hopefully someone can comment on if that will drive the v1.0 gizmo without any distortion and if that is the case some v1.0 users might just keep it as the problem with go away with the the matching DAC.


Obviously I can't say with 100% certainty, since the DAC-Man isn't out.... But I have been driving my 1.0 Gizmo with two variable source inputs: a DAC with volume-controlled output, and the above-mentioned new Belles Soloist 3 preamp. 

Both function well with the Gizmo, and no distortion is produced. By the time I get to turning up the volume to where I THINK it MAY be distorting, it's so uncomfy volume-wise that it makes no difference.....

I'm still leaning to swapping one of my Gizmo's for a 1.1, and keep the other to get $50 off something else.

Craig: any update/thought on timeframe of v1.1? Not that we'd hold you to that oke::biglaugh:

Thanks,

Todd - skullguise


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

*Greetings all !! *

Mark Schifter is playing with DACMAN's prototype now, and it works flawlessly with Gizmo V1.0. Of course, DACMAN has a variable output. 

We are going to be very forceful with Stephen that NOTHING gets changed on DACMAN with the production units.

I have received no info regarding V1.1 ... there is a lot of behind the scenes work going on here on several fronts. The reason I have been quiet lately is I want everything done before posting all the information.


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

I'm not sure I follow what is changing about the next version that will affect this issue. Is the gain structure changing? I have a variable output source so I'm guessing that's why I haven't run into this issue, but it's good to know about before I change anything about my setup.

I don't know if anybody else has pointed this out, but one minor irritation I've noticed is that everytime it's turned off the volume returns to zero and all the bass/treble controls reset. It's not a huge deal, but since my wife and I share the computer, and she is loathe to have to adjust anything to make it work right, it tends to just play really quiet for her. (she's not as bad as that may sound, but I've got the EMU's software mixer, then the windows volume output level, then a preamp, then the gizmo before it hits the speakers, so when it gets out of whack she has no idea what to do) Is it possible to change this behavior on the next version?


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