# "Half Scott," 3 way design



## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Since reading Not's thread on the LG clones I have asked Sanway what other equipment do they sell. SO they told me they clone just about everything they sell and you can buy separate speakers from them such as 6.5's or 10s, 12's and 15's. SO I was able to get some T/S info from them in regards to a pair of Matin F15 clones and they seemed to simulate just fine for me. They are no AE's or anything but at $79 each I am willing to live with only 5mm xmax.

SO after deciding to build a "Half Scott," 3 way with dual 15's each. I began to simulate the clone drivers and save my coins to start my project. I still have to save up and buy the minidsp, AVR and other components of the 3way but wanted to tell others about the clone drivers.

After speaking to Sanway about purchasing four 15's from them they also suggested the RCF clones that they had. They are $82 each but they dont have the T/S available yet. Sanway insisted that the RCF cloned speakers are better in all areas then the F15 so I wanted ti try. SO instead of buying four F15's I bought two RCF clone 15s and the WT3 software from PE..

I have received the WT3 software and should receive the woofers by Monday next week. Once I receive the woofers I will use the software to get accurate T/S and other numbers I am sure others will find useful.

If others have any questions in regards to these woofers feel free to ask.


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## fusseli (May 1, 2007)

I'm curious what they look like and how their T/S measure. Sorry if I missed it, but what's so great about a clone of anything with 5mm of xmax?


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

I only need a woofer that does 40-350/400hz. All the woofers I have simulated do just fine for my SPL wants with only 5mm possible of excursions. Better would be the AE TD15H's but at 300 a piece roughly, they only really help me get lower in extension. ANd I could get 3 of these woofers for the same price as the AE. I am not saying they will sound better but I need to start some where.

I also dont want a woofer trying to play a voice and 20hz at the same time. Darth Vader modulation....

SO after countless simulations I have come up with a few different woofers that would work. They all have around 5-9mm xmax but they are not all cheap. SO after finding these cloned woofers and they ARE cheap I am going to give them a try.

I will be using four total for left and right speaker. Two in each channel and with a 40hz tune to reduce modulation distortion and a hpass I will be rocking these woofers. PLUS They will probably not move much at all when listening to music or movies.

I never really worried about Xmax when it comes to non-subwoofers. SO I hope everything works out. And my ears will be the final judge.

Oh and if you could ....please find me a PHL 1120 cloned midrange.......LOL Hpass at around 400hz and 600watts and only 2mm Xmax.....LOL Sorry off track. I will be buying a PHL 1120 next.


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## fusseli (May 1, 2007)

Ohh okay, exactly, makes perfect sense. For whatever reason I was thinking subwoofer when I read that, henc my confusion


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

No problem....I figured as much. I dont think I have found anything that is going to be as good of a value as the SI subs when they go into production.


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## Jstslamd (Nov 30, 2010)

Are these drivers listed on their website ?


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

No they are not. I emailed them several times to find out what they had available.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Well after some issues with shipping for some reasons I finally have a tracking number and my pair of 15's are on there way. I will probably get these woofers next Thursday, I hope. Then I will test them with my software.

I have just received my PHL 3451 also. Amazing when I have my mind set on something I find something else with a great deal and buy that.:huh:

Well I bought the 3451 because it was a good deal and I like extreme overkill when building speakers. I now just need to order a Minidsp 4x8 and the TPL-150. Although Studiotech has me wondering a lot about those Raal's.

But for now I will just stick with my Beyma TPL-150, PHL mid and clone dual 15's. I will be building each part of the 3 way in its own enclosure. So the dual 15's will be in a seperate enclosure. The mid will be in its own cabinet and sitting on top of the 15's. Then the TPL-150 will be in another small cabinet sitting on top of the rest. The TPL will have legs o it so I can adjust the rear level to aim the ribbon. 

Because of the height I am going to end up with the center of the TPL-150 at about 45" so I will need the rear legs.

This is going to be my inspiration for the build. My baffles will probably be just flat black though and some kind of veneer.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

After much delay the 15's finally got here. I was trying to start my cabinet build already but the local store here did not have any 18mm MDF. :crying: I was bummed.

I will be going out today to look at another location to get the mdf.

First glance at the box from the post man and I wonder how do these things even make it intact anywhere. :scratch: Wife said they just dropped the box in the living room for her. 

The boxes were packed......ok. One of the dust caps has a dent in it but thats about all.

I am free air testing the drivers at 20hz to guestimate the Xmax.(thanks Ricci) I seem to be hearing a rub of the rubber gasket against the surround when doing so. When I place my hand on the gasket the sound goes away. IDK I will be most likely taking the gaskets off anyways.

The pair of these woofers will be going in a 3cuft ported cabinet tuned to 42hz roughly.

Here are some pics of the package and me unpacking. The other woofer has no dents and sounds fine.







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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

So I cant seem to figure out the DATS software yet but the Xmax appears to be about 6mm. I would push it harder but I am afraid to be out a woofer. I was hoping for 5mm and I think these will do more than that just fine.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

I should hopefully have the cabinet built for the 15's this weekend. After playing the 20hz sine wave a lot I seem to have gotten rid of the gasket noise. 

I am liking them so far but I need to order my tweeter and minidsp to really see how these will sound. And the vacuum cleaner took the dent out of the dust cap.


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## studiotech (Apr 27, 2009)

chrapladm said:


> I should hopefully have the cabinet built for the 15's this weekend. After playing the 20hz sine wave a lot I seem to have gotten rid of the gasket noise.
> 
> I am liking them so far but I need to order my tweeter and minidsp to really see how these will sound. And the vacuum cleaner took the dent out of the dust cap.


Just getting caught up here. They certainly LOOK like RCF drivers. Glad you got the dent out.

Waiting for more updates as you progress.














Raal















Raal














Raal

:devil:


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

LOL........I am still waiting for the TPL-150 but I am wanting to try and see what the Raal would sound like also. I wish I could A/B compare the but thats not exactly a cheap thing to do.

Still thinking about those Raals though.

So since I got distracted taking care of my four children I went back out side to see that our dog ate through the Cicular saw plug.

























But luckily I unplugged the power before I walked away. I also got all the cuts but a few done for the cabinet.

The only cuts I didnt get cut yet were the cuts for four pieces for the PHL mid cabinet.:rant:

Dog is still with us though....although I wanted to remove him permanently after that.


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## Greg0 (Apr 6, 2012)

He must not have liked the noise! 
Should be easy to fix the cable up
Bit of heat shrink and you'll be good as gold!


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Ya probably. I needed to buy another circular saw anyways. I dont really like the big ones at all. I enjoy working with the smaller blades. I also have never used a round over bigger than 16mm. Learning curve.

Lets just say that my router had to be modified to fit the new roundover bit.  I also messed up while using the router bit.:rant: But oh well....... if I dont mess up I will never learn.

SO sorry for the dark pictures.

Router Mod:
















Port








Back side








Front baffle








Sides


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

The router mod was because my plunge routers hole was only 40mm. I was using a 25mm roundover which was 60mm wide. Next time I need to make legs that are 18" long. I did not take picture yet but I made a mistake on the first side of the baffle. The other side was fine. And I must say I love this roundover.

I will be painting the front baffle flat black anyways. SO it will be noticeable but not as much. I will add more pics later.

I also forgot how heavy this cabinet was going to be........WOW. The sides are a bear to move. ANd I still dont have the back and front baffle on nor the speakers.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Well its been a while and I have finished my dual 15 cabinet and mid and high cabinets. I still have to get my Minidsp working so I can crossover the mid and high correctly and EQ. I have a long way to go but wanted to hear how it sounded either way. So still needing a new AVR I am only able to use my avr sub out. So I installed a 500hz hpass on the TPL and just plugged both of them (mid/high) into the left channel. Not ideal but wanted to hear it.

I used to sub out to power the amp and crossed the bass bin at 200hz. Long story short I EQ'd with Audyssey and it sounds amazing. I still need some proper EQing but it sounds great. My SLA sounds like it does not have any tweeters in it at all after just listening to it by itself again. I also finally got my 21's. It took a while but they finally got hear. Sad to say I wont be able to get anymore of them either. I wanted four of them but they wont be making any of them anymore. I guess....

Anyways I will add some pics in a minute when they finish uploading.

So far the subs are just put in sealed 5.5cuft boxes. They have stuffing and I still have to place the speakon connectors in them. Wifey wanted the stuff moved out of the room so I smashed everything into place. Still a lot of work to do but everything is sort of in place now. I wanted to try these cloned 15's and see how they sounded for the money. So far they sound amazing and definitely worth every penny. IMO. Others might hate them. but for 300, roughly, dollars for a pair of 15's there awesome. I looked at maybe trying some 18Sound 1401 15's for more money. They definitely play louder and deeper than these but cost about 700 for the pair. That being said I still wanted to try out the 18 clone also and they are about 450 for the pair. So money talks and I love bass.

Before I go buying the 18's for now I just wanted to say when listening to music so far I am loving these 15's. I want more but I tend to never have the sub on when listening. The subs provide more lows and rumble but with the 15's there is no .......brain not working today. The 15's when playing bass have a fast attack and the sound disappears quickly. I like that. Fast, articulate and not hanging around. The subs tend to keep the bass around for a while. Maybe thats the way they are supposed to sound because of the recording. IDK

I listened to Enya and the subs are a bit much. With Jay Z (Watch the throne)the subs are great. Tracy Chapman they are a bit much. So I can only change some settings through the AVR but so far I like just the 15's when listening to music. 

Love the 21's though. Still need that clone Fp14000 amp but they still sound great underpowered. I just use them mainly for movies.

And since I want more bass for now and my bass brother has four JBL 2226's per channel I am going to up the anty and get a 2/3 Scott. Still have some months before this is completed though. I will be buying the BC cloned 18's. I will make a dual 18 bass bin for the 3 way. 

Studiotech or others I have a question. Because my bass bin currently is 33" roughly I made a mid box which is 12"s cubed and the TPL in a small box on top. Now if I build a dual 18 that is going to push the height to roughly 40" tall to start.

So I am thinking of maybe doing a dual TPL150 and dual 1120 per channel. SO the mids would be vertically stacked and the 1120's would be also. That way I could keep everything "close," together. SO is there something I am forgetting about to say this is a bad idea? 

I have been so busy with other things that I may be missing something but for now I can't think of anything.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

These boxes were huge








Great packing. The courier dropped the first one on my concrete porch. AARRGGGHHH. I then went to his truck and grabbed the next one. I then unpacked my 21 and stuffed him in the box..........Just kidding. I was a bit upset about him dropping it but he made it safely home. For now...lol

Nothing fancy here. Just a simple cabinet









With the cabinet being so small I added these braces. The weights are on braces I added to help support the baffle.









I made the cutout for the subwoofer to small on the baffle. But it just needed a 19mm round over and it fit perfectly.


















Bigger headed screws than I normally use
















And presto


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## studiotech (Apr 27, 2009)

Probably 2 stacked TPL-150 is not ideal. The vertical dispersion is already quite poor above 8KHz, so 2 stacked would be even worse. Just stand in front of the speaker with some music with nice cymbals and move up and down in relation to the tweeter. I think you'll find a big different BTW being right on axis and just a little too high or low. If you do not hear the difference, get your ears checked at your local Audiologists office, OK? You might have some high freq hearing loss, in which case stack as many of them as you want!

Even with one TPL, you might want to consider something like the Raal foamy end caps. You'd have to re-eq the top end response of the TPL, but you got MiniDSP, so no problem. 

:innocent:

Greg


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

The reason for the possible stack was because I could utilize more wattage from my amplifier and because the TPL would be better aligned for my ears to be on Axis without tilting the speaker down. Yes on axis amazing and off axis they are missing the highs. Same thing with my line array.

Will have to do some more research.


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## studiotech (Apr 27, 2009)

Well, as long as your head is within the "window" of the coverage, you'll be fine, but now you've also got the separation distance between the midbass drivers to consider. Their CTC distance will be quite large which would dictate possibly a lower crossover point than is ideal. Without the horn, I really do not recommend running any lower than about 1.2KHz @ 24db/oct on the TPLs.


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## studiotech (Apr 27, 2009)

Since you've got the TPL in its own enclosure, I'd be curious if you might like to remove the rear, plastic chamber and report if you hear much of a difference. Of course, stuff the enclose with some good sound absorbing material. I feel like the rear chamber is to flimsy and just begging to create some kind of nasty, low level resonance. It seems like sound would just have to be bouncing off it and re-radiating through the pleated diaphragm. 

Maybe you could even make some freq response and decay measurements...

Thanks.

Greg


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## Greg0 (Apr 6, 2012)

Looks great! Did you end up getting your fp14000? 

How do they sound now they have been run in?

Lucky there was two delivery men for my ftw so mine wasn't dropped!

Greg


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Still saving for the Fp14000. I just have a single bridged amp on one of them for now.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Due to me wanting to venture into out doors I am having to sell my stuff so I can afford to build another project. I dont want to sell anything but have to. I will be selling my 21's, 15's, PHL3451 and TPL-150's. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I have not posted them in the classifieds yet. I dont really want to sell anything but it needs to be done. 

I will make a classified very soon for everything.


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## Greg0 (Apr 6, 2012)

chrapladm said:


> Due to me wanting to venture into out doors I am having to sell my stuff so I can afford to build another project. I dont want to sell anything but have to. I will be selling my 21's, 15's, PHL3451 and TPL-150's. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I have not posted them in the classifieds yet. I dont really want to sell anything but it needs to be done.
> 
> I will make a classified very soon for everything.


That's not good to hear..
Curious as to what you come up with!

Your obviously not a man that likes to comprise David!


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Indoors will have to be put on hold for now. I am going to go with outdoor gear for now and use it inside. I will be building a pair of DR250s from Billfitzmaurice plans. I have heard rave reviews on them and plan on building them. Since I am a bass man I will be building the subs first. I will be using a pair of Ricci Gjallerhorns for outdoor cinema setups but for indoors they are just to big for my location. So I will be building Ricci's Othorn instead for my living room. They should be fine down to 20hz indoors and thats good enough for me. Beggars cant be choosers. I will then use these subs for my outdoor music blasting at the basketball court.

Over time I will eventually build a pair of Gjallerhorns. The wood is going to cost more than the woofer.:huh: So that will e a very slow build.

I will eventually come back to this 3 way design but will go ahead and buy 18 Sound 15" woofers. These clones are fine for most people but I can tell that I need more power/ excursion. I could go with the 18 clones but will just go with a 15" driver to keep from having to build another cabinet.

But for now I will enjoy what I have until sold. :hsd:


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