# Speaker & Receiver suggestions



## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

Hello all, I have a 15 X 13 foot listening area in an open larger area and I was looking for a 5.1 speaker system with a receiver that will do a zone B, because I have a 3 season porch I would like to put another set of speakers in.

I've done a little bit of reading and research and I can see everyone has there favorites but I found this the Pioneer SP-PK52FS Andrew Jones 5.1 Home Theater Speaker Package at $545, which has gotten very good reviews the only bad things mentioned are the looks and the sub is underpowered.

To go along with that was the Denon AVR-X2100W receiver at $400, has the 2nd zone, air play, wifi, doesn't have a phone preamp but that's not a deal killer

Also what is everyone using for speaker cabling and sub cabling?

For approximately $1K what does everyone think of this system? As I've read the ratio from receiver to speakers should be 2/3's of budget on speakers and 1/3 on receiver. If so can a good 5.1 speaker setup be put together for under 1K to use with the Denon? I can strect the buget a little if needed.

I look forward to your suggestions, Pete


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

_Speakers,_

For that price range, the Pioneer SP speaker line is top notch.

My suggestion...
Instead of getting the full Pioneer 5.1 package (Pioneer sub included), I would get the 5.0 Floorstanding package (Pioneer sub not included). Then spend $500-600 on a much better ID sub from HSU or SVS.

I suggest going with the Floor standing speakers for the main left/right channels. Using them full range may integrate well with the separate sub (LFE+main) giving you some extra bass extension. If they don't integrate well using full range, then you can use the 80hz crossover.


_Cabling,_

Nothing fancy and expensive is needed (i.e. Monster brand). But you don't want the cheapest stuff that Walmart offers because that can have weak insulation and weak connections.
Standard speaker wire and cabling that RadioShack offers is reliable stuff.
Remember that wire thickness (AWG) has to due with the length of the wire run, not the power of the amp/speaker. Shorter runs use thinner wire (under 50'=AWG 16), Longer runs use thicker wire (over 50'=AWG 14).


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## conksta (May 9, 2015)

The AJ speakers do sound great. I had them setup in an almost identical space (12x16). 

Agree with the last post though, pass on the sub. If the svs is out of your price range, I went with dual Dayton sub1200's on sale for $50 more than the1 of the pioneer subs. 

This will be a pretty powerful sounding system if paired with the denon you mentioned.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Great advice above and fully agree with both. For the price the pioneer speakers ar a great value just pass on the sub and go with above mentioned ones.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Craigsub has a killer deal that started yesterday I think.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-speakers/101785-black-friday-clearance-sale-chane-originally-chase-speakers-subwoofers-11.html

I dare say that is a stellar deal with his subs! Would be my choice over any of the above. Just my $0.02.:spend:

Scroll down to post #103.


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## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

Glenn, after reading your sugesstion going with the svs sub and then conksat and tonyvdbs going with 2 lower priced subs. It would be a 200 dollar difference if I went with the SB1000 instead of 2 Dayton sub1200's or 400 dollars with the SB2000.

If anything I've learned over the years and I have a room full of guitars, basses, amps, cabs, pedals, mics, & rack gear to know I'm better off going with the svs sub which if I decide in the future to upgrade the 5.0speakers the svs sub will still hold up and from what I read they are quality units. I once gave up 3 weeks vacation to by my first Neuman U-87 that was 25 years ago and I still have it and use it to this day.

Now saying that, I hate to ask this question, but the gearhead in me must. If I could double my 5.0 budget to 1K and went with an svs sub would that get me to the next level soundwise and what would you all recommend or would I need more of a budget to get to that next level of sound.

Thanx, Pete


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well there would be a nice improvement in sound going up to 1k for the speakers. 
I think that going with the Chane speaker package would be hard to beat
http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

smanrecording said:


> Hello all, I have a 15 X 13 foot listening area in an open larger area and I was looking for a 5.1 speaker system with a receiver that will do a zone B, because I have a 3 season porch I would like to put another set of speakers in.
> 
> I've done a little bit of reading and research and I can see everyone has there favorites but I found this the Pioneer SP-PK52FS Andrew Jones 5.1 Home Theater Speaker Package at $545, which has gotten very good reviews the only bad things mentioned are the looks and the sub is underpowered.
> 
> ...




Hey Pete, looks like you've done some good research. The Pioneer system is a great place to start. Along with the sub being below par is the center channel. Your logic in putting 2/3 into the speakers is smart, speaker quality is the most important aspect. 
The center channel is one of the most important speakers, and is considered by many to be the most important in a 5.1 as it handles all the dialog. 
I believe the front stage, FR, C, FL (sub as well since it is designed to handle first 3 octaves and other speakers simply cannot produce that range. Varies, but below 40-50 Hz anything other than a sub can't produce) and can't single one out. The Pioneer SP-BS22-LR bookshelves are one of the best bang for your buck purchases you will ever get. Same for the towers. 

Go look on Accessories4less.com for your receiver. A lot of open box, demo's on there that can be had at a 1/3rd of the MSRP. They're also a authorized retailer for Denon, Yamaha, KEF, Marantz, others which is an aspect I really like. You get the full warranty as if you purchased from the brand directly. 

I had my budget set where yours is intially. Once I got the gear in my house I had to upgrade. 
Went with the Pioneer setup and Yamaha receiver. Most important thing I can probably tell you is the specs on all receivers are in no way accurate (exception is Emotiva, yet I wouldn't want there video processing) because a law from the 70's allows the manufacturers a loophole in the specifications they list. For example receiver A will say "100 watts per channel". That measurement is with 1 channel driven after a warm up period of over 30 minutes. In reality the 100 watts per channel equals 60-65 RMS watts with 5 channels driven. 
A 130 watt per channel like I have equates to 100 watts with 5 channels driven and 86 with 7 channels driven. 
Keep that in mind when looking and view the test bench numbers provided on Audioholics and Sound and Vision or Stereophile.com. 

On the sub, I recommend the NXG BAS 500. It's a 12' well designed sub that will deliver all the power you need. It's just under $240 on Amazon.

I would look at Polk for a better center channel. 

It was difficult for me at a certain point after a certain amount of research/recommendations. Felt like everyone was telling me something different, and I needed to get some gear in the home to determine what my wants/needs were. 
Ended up keeping the Pioneer SP-BS22-LR and even loaded up on an Amazon sake that had them for $60 a pair. Went with KEF for my system. 

Some will say not to mix brands, but it's not an issue. Just keep all the driver sizes the same e.g. 6.5'

If there's any ?'s I can help you with, let me know. Wish I had my knowledge/experience at the time or someone I could ask. 

At the end of the day though, go with your gut


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## dgmartin (Oct 29, 2011)

I trust the other guys in their recommendations for a 5.1. However I would also consider alternative strategies... 

Depends if 1000$ is what your are willing to spend now of it is what you will ever spend. For instance if you are willing to spend 1000 now and 1000 in a couple of years, you may be better to buy 2 channels now and complete later on. You will have paid less in upgrades in the end. In the meantime you will have better SQ overall but less features. 

Get a used receiver. Unless your need 3D processing, at 400-500$ you will have something that could well be your last receiver.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> I think that going with the Chane speaker package would be hard to beat


Yes. I have Chane speakers and they are definitely a step up. The Pioneers are the top of entry level speakers. The Chanes are way above entry level.

3 Front Speakers, A2rx-c ($687 total)... 
http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers/A2rx-c

2 Surround Speakers, A1rx-c ($298 total)...
http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers/A1rx-c

Total =$985 +shipping.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

_Subs,_

The _NXG BAS 500_ was mentioned above. It is a good entry level sub for the $250 price range, but no where near all you need if you can afford better.
Any of the SVS subs are in a totally different class. 
The NXG sub is a stepping stone.
The SVS sub is a keeper.

_Upgrading later,_

dgmartin makes a very good point concerning the process of upgrading. 
The set up I mentioned earlier with the Chane speakers allows for that. The Chane series are all keepers, not stepping stones. You would not need to upgrade on quality, but you may want to upgrade on power and add more speakers. 
With the set up I mentioned, you can upgrade on power by...
- Buying 2 of the larger Chane tower speakers for the front Left & Right. 
- Move the smaller (2) A2rx-c speakers to the side surrounds. 
- Move the smaller (2) A1rx-c speakers to the rear surrounds. 
Now you have a bigger front sound stage and a full 7.1 surround set up.


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## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

Tom, I'm glad I'm not the only one. It does seem like everyone has their favorite which is understandable. 

I also understand dg's logic to build a system over time with better pieces, because actually I would use it to listen to music more that 60% of the time.

I checked out the suggested Chane website an I noticed the A2rx-c, and the A3rx-c which looks like the same in a tower configuration and they have an open box pair for $698 which would be a good 2 channel starting point with a good receiver and I can build from there. Wait and get the A2rx-c & 2-A1rx-c's and the SVS sub.

I will have to mull this over. I have a few nights off and will be doing some painting and yard work during the day will and try to come to a decision.

I want to thank you all for you suggestions and info, Pete


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

If no one's mentioned it -- SVS subs have been mentioned -- price the 3.1 or 5.1 speaker packages at SVS. Why: they offer free shipping, and free return shipping I think if you audition them and dislike them. But you'll probably like whatever you get, their speaker sets have gotten great reviews. 

Hsu offers speaker sets as well, but no free shipping and return shipping. 

Don't know diddly about Chane, but any web site with mis-proportioned images makes me scratch my chin and worry. I mean, that is SO 1994 to mess up your site image tags.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Chromejob said:


> Don't know diddly about Chane, but any web site with mis-proportioned images makes me scratch my chin and worry. I mean, that is SO 1994 to mess up your site image tags.


Not sure what you are referring to, the site pictures look good on every computer I've used.

EDIT... Oh, I just looked at the site again and see what pics you're referring to. I never paid attention to those. The speaker pics look normal.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Stupak, The SVS subs are on another level, yet should be at over 2 times the price. I just don't see how the majority of people can use them to their potential living in a neighborhood. The NXG BAS 500 upsets the neighbors which I try to be respectful of. The Morel Ultimo 124 I made shakes the neighbors houses. For the record don't ever turn your sub beyond 75% volume. 
Unless you have no regard for making your neighbors mad, I don't see how you can truly use the subs above $500

Sman, one thing I didn't realize until recently with the KEF speakers I decided to go with is how the look/style of the speakers seem to fit each person's personal style. Can't recall where but I read an article on the subject and it seems to be accurate 

If you're considering paying $700 for your towers, you have to look at the KEF Q700 (6.5 drivers) and Q900 that has the 8' drivers

The gentlemen who mentioned getting the system over a period of time, is very wise. Starting with a great pair of towers and AVR like the Onkyo TX-NR636 which I demoed and is rated the best receiver for the money on the wirecutter or Tom's Hardware which are very good sites if you've never been. I wanted preouts though so I went with the Onkyo TX-NR838. 
If you have the patience to go this route, I'd highly recommend doing so


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I'm not sure I can go without saying that everyone's neighborhood is different. I don't recall mention of close quarters? Not utilize a $500 sub? Maybe in a condo, or a row house, or a trailer house. I have 3, 12's and even when they're slamming I can hardly hear them outside. Unless I missed something, that just doesn't make sense.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Tom,
In a condo or townhome which have shared walls with neighbors, any sub is not considerate. In that situation I would suggest using tower speakers and no sub.

In a normal house and neighborhood like mine, my sub activity isn't bothersome outside the house, much of it stays inside the house, even when listening to 95db audio. If the windows are open, then the mid range and treble are the most offensive outside the house. 
My system uses the Chane A5 towers full range (used to use JBL S312's which has 12" drivers), (2) 18"'s, and (1) 15".


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## dgmartin (Oct 29, 2011)

smanrecording said:


> I checked out the suggested Chane website an I noticed the A2rx-c, and the A3rx-c which looks like the same in a tower configuration and they have an open box pair for $698 which would be a good 2 channel starting point with a good receiver and I can build from there. Wait and get the A2rx-c & 2-A1rx-c's and the SVS sub.


If you are willing to assemble them, some kits that include cabinets are also on sale at Madisound. 
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/zaph-audio/
I currently have the ZA5.2 (own cabinet) at the office and can't recommend them enough. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about them.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

gdstupak said:


> Tom,
> In a condo or townhome which have shared walls with neighbors, any sub is not considerate. In that situation I would suggest using tower speakers and no sub.
> 
> In a normal house and neighborhood like mine, my sub activity isn't bothersome outside the house, much of it stays inside the house, even when listening to 95db audio. If the windows are open, then the mid range and treble are the most offensive outside the house.
> My system uses the Chane A5 towers full range (used to use JBL S312's which has 12" drivers), (2) 18"'s, and (1) 15".



I'm in a neighborhood in a house. The house next to me has a 2 yr old and 4 yr old. Nice ppl, u can hear it well on the side of there house if I'm playing music. The 2 girls sleep on that side, don't want to wake em, and wouldn't wanted to hear that when I was a kid so turn it down or off at night


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

It's good to know there are other considerate people in the world.
My housing isolation is probably helped by having my living room in the center of the house, so there are rooms to the sides, and also an attached garage. And I am at the end of my street, so neighbors only on one side.

Something that does make me go hmmm... There can be a low-rider Cadillac down the road, and in my house I can feel that sub thumping from 200 yards away. But my sub sound doesn't escape my house.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

gdstupak said:


> Tom,
> In a condo or townhome which have shared walls with neighbors, any sub is not considerate. In that situation I would suggest using tower speakers and no sub....


A blanket statement like that is misleading. Some townhome buildings have privacy walls that can mute light vibrations,... or not. My neighbor said she "heard" base from my wimpy Bose 401s from time to time, but not so that she noticed unless she was absolutely quiet and listening for it. Installed a sub, and she hasn't noticed much difference. I don't crank my volume very often, and I have the sub tuned down so as to blend into the other speakers, not rattle the dishes at the slightest provocation. 

Tl'dr: a sub that's tuned well and not crammed right into a corner is not inconsiderate of neighbors. Particularly if you get some feedback from said neighbors.


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## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

Tom, I am thinking this way. My only problem would the Kef Q700's need let's say a higher quality amp and pre setup instead of a receiver. The one thing I know is better speakers will also bring out the flaws in an AVR (I have to stop saying receiver, my kids still laugh at me when I say album, and tape a tv show).

I have to mention I've been a bass player and recording engineer for the past 30 years and have recorded and mixed many cd's. Which is my thinking of going the building the system route with better gear, because as much as I try not to I listen for details in everything I listen to I still do. I do listen to all styles of music from singer/songwriter solo acoustic to Metal. 

As for the neighbors, I live on a corner 1/2 acre lot, and my listening area is separated by almost my entire house, and my neighbors garage is on my side so that shouldn't be a problem.

I am trying to find out if there is anywhere in my area where I can audition some of these speakers and AVR's, the search and decisions continues


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

AVRs have come a long way, if you stick with ones that have pre outs you would be hard pressed to hear any quality difference between any of them. High end DACs have advanced so much and become affordable that all AVR companies use them. Your main concern will be if the receivers amp section has enough power to drive the speakers to listening levels that you like. In many of the lower end units the power supply is far to small to drive the amps to their full potential so weight is important.


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## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

That's what I'll have to look into with the AVR's. Is the weight more about the transformers they're using? I've dealt a lot with gear with Burr-Brown DAC's and always thought they sounded great.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Weight is usually a good indication of a large or small power supply. If the receiver is approaching 35lbs or higher you are in much better shape.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

+Tony. I have 4 avr's in my house, and I've tried all of them in my main system at various points. The heaviest of them(onkyo txnr-808, shipping weight 45lbs 135wpc)easily has more dynamics and power,and control, to levels way beyond the others. The others start to lose it at various levels, but none come close. The 2nd best is a pioneer 1019 ahk. Great $500 avr, 125wpc. It might weigh around 30? Sounds great to moderate/fairly spirited levels, but runs out of gas. Bench tests confirm my anecdotal observations with all/2, ch driven in reviews. There's obviously way more to the story, but I wanted to touch on what Tony said.


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## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

Anyone have any experience with the Marantz SR7007? I know it's a few years old but they're going for $799.00. and they have a good rep for thier amplifier sections.

Also what's a decent CD player? I see some have digital outs so you can use your AVR's DAC's. 

Interesting tidbit, I just got the new Crutchfield May/June mailer and they said for the first time since the 80's turntable sales eclipsed cd player sales.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

gdstupak said:


> It's good to know there are other considerate people in the world.
> My housing isolation is probably helped by having my living room in the center of the house, so there are rooms to the sides, and also an attached garage. And I am at the end of my street, so neighbors only on one side.
> 
> Something that does make me go hmmm... There can be a low-rider Cadillac down the road, and in my house I can feel that sub thumping from 200 yards away. But my sub sound doesn't escape my house.


Believe it's because the sub is only hitting in the 20-80 Hz range and the other speakers that handle 80 Hz and up simply aren't loud enough for you to hear.So the 20-80 is all that reaches you. 15-25 Hz is where you feel it coursing through you and stuff starts falling off of walls

Edit: Thanks for the complement. Nice to hear the same. Recently I've learned and worked at putting myself in others shoes to view something from another perspective. It's very beneficial in many aspects. Believe the mind should also be improving, being narrow minded, or so stuck in your ways where the notion of any change/something new angers people appears to be misery to myself. In fairness, to each his own


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

*Speaker &amp; Receiver suggestions*



smanrecording said:


> Anyone have any experience with the Marantz SR7007? I know it's a few years old but they're going for $799.00. and they have a good rep for thier amplifier sections.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They still sell CD players? I would guess that multi-format disc players that play DVDs, BDs also eclipse cd players. (edited) 

Edit: SACD are still an exception, yes? Are there high-end CD players with superior DACs that output analog?

I would be surprised to find any digital disc player without digital outputs. I didn't wake up in 1994, did I?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

No, you're just dreaming. Wakey wakey!


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I just pulled my DVD/CD player from the system to make room for the amp.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

JBrax said:


> I just pulled my DVD/CD player from the system to make room for the amp.


 good call. You still have your ps4 anyway right?


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

willis7469 said:


> good call. You still have your ps4 anyway right?


 Yes sir!


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## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

I know it will seem funny to most of you which I don't blame you, but I haven't purchased any new stereo or home theater gear since the mid 80's. Until it just died I was using a BSR cd player into an old Onkyo reciever with Burhoe Acoustic speakers that lasted 30 years. I gave the receiver and speakers to my grand daughter. The great thing about the BSR was it had an A-B repeat which before pro tools was great for learning songs.

That's how far behind I am in consumer audio. I gotta a lot of catching up to do. Like I said I know the pro studio stuff inside and out but that's why I'm hear. I totally forgot about the multi-format players.

After reading willis post I see the Onkyo TX-NR838 goes for the same as the Marantz. Some more research to do


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

smanrecording said:


> I know it will seem funny to most of you which I don't blame you, but I haven't purchased any new stereo or home theater gear since the mid 80's. Until it just died I was using a BSR cd player into an old Onkyo reciever with Burhoe Acoustic speakers that lasted 30 years. I gave the receiver and speakers to my grand daughter. The great thing about the BSR was it had an A-B repeat which before pro tools was great for learning songs. That's how far behind I am in consumer audio. I gotta a lot of catching up to do. Like I said I know the pro studio stuff inside and out but that's why I'm hear. I totally forgot about the multi-format players. After reading willis post I see the Onkyo TX-NR838 goes for the same as the Marantz. Some more research to do


 I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying your gear as long as you did. Did you enjoy it? If the answer is yes then you saved yourself some money, time, and sometimes headache. Technology has definitely advanced since the last time you went shopping and you don't really have to spend a lot of money to have a pretty good setup.


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## smanrecording (May 3, 2015)

I enjoyed what I had but I never had the time to sit down and actually relax and listen to a home system. I was either working, engineering at a studio or playing gigs. I now have that opportunity with my own house and I haven't done a gig in a few years. That's why I have so many questions and there are sooo many choices, but I am in no rush and I do appreciate all the input everyone is giving me


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

No explanations necessary. I still have my 90s Technics cassette deck hooked in to play some of my old tapes fr time to time. I miss my old Toshiba DVD turntable, or my Technics CD turntable (which synced with the tape deck to make proper tapes fr CDs, anyone remember doing THAT chore? this combo automated it). I wish I hadn't dumped my malfunctioning Sony D5 Discman (the first portable CD player IIRC). Beautiful glossy black finish.... And boy oh boy I wish I hadn't given away my 80s Sony turntable with Empire cartridge (direct drive motor with adjustable pitch/speed), that was one sweet turntable. 

Someone at my last workplace was giving away a 90s CD player with all the numberic buttons for programming, etc. Still in working order. Backlit liquid crystal display. Tempted, I was. 

Still have many LPs (incl some of my mother's from the 50s, 60s, including a re-stickered Beatles Yesterday), just havent gotten 'round to plugging in the Audio Technica turntable. 


Yeah, some of the old stuff is still solid and even has charm. It bothers me a little that I've had to replace my Yamaha AVRs not because they wore out, but their feature set was outpaced by other technology, requiring an update just to integrate newer technology (HDMI, ARC, 3D, wireless control). Grrrr.


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