# How can I Bi-Amp and still get 7.1 on a 7.1 receiver?



## Dethfyre (Feb 10, 2010)

Hey all

I've got a Yamaha RX-V3900 (140 W / Channel, 7.1 Receiver) and I'm using it in a 5.1 configuration right now with two Yamaha NS-A1738 towers for the front L/R that are bi-amped - the settings in the receiver allow you to convert the internal amps 6 & 7 to be bi-amp front L/R outputs instead of rear 6/7 outputs. (The Speaker stats are here if that helps at all : http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/productdetail.html?CNTID=200429&CTID=5002900 ) 

That's worked out great so far, and it really helps those speakers perform so I don't want to drop the bi-amp on them, but I'm in the process of building my Home Theater in the basement right now and I have run the wires for a bi-amped 7.1 setup. The problem is I've got a 7.1 receiver and to be able to run 7.1 with bi-amped fronts would require a 9.1 receiver the way I'm doing it now. OR... maybe something else? 

That's the question I guess - how can I get a 7.1 speaker system running when I move everything down to the new theater, and still maintain my bi-amp on the front towers? Upgrading the receiver isn't an option for me at this point, so what else can I do to make this work (if anything)? Or is the 7.1 setup even worth pursuing? I haven't heard 7.1 personally as none of my friends are into HT... maybe it doesn't make enough of a difference to worry about and I should just keep the bi-amp 5.1 setup?

Thanks for any help / suggestions, I appreciate it!
Dan


Also, just FYI - I leave on my honeymoon tomorrow morning and I won't have internet access etc, so I won't be responding to any posts after I check the forum this evening until I get back. From 3/11 until 3/22 I'm not ignoring you, I'm just not here!!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Your only good option is the buy an external amp to power the mains. That will free up the receiver so you will have 7.1 again available. Bi-ampling is not as big an advantage as you may think and the difference you hear is likely the fact that your releasing the receiver of driving the speakers using just the two main channel amps. An external amp will give you the same or better results.


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## Dethfyre (Feb 10, 2010)

Ok, so a second amplifier is an option then (not a receiver, just an amp? I've only ever worked with receivers). How do you go about connecting that to the receiver - remove the Bi-amp setting, then connect the front L/R receiver outs to the amplifier, and then bi amp from the amplifier to the towers?

Thanks!!

Dan


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## chadnliz (Feb 12, 2010)

Hook up amp to pre outs on back of your reciever...preout Left and Right mains then run your front speaker wire from amp.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The back of your receiver will have two desicated "rca" outputs for your main channels (near the sub out) use those to the inputs on the amp that you buy. Make sure the amp has proper unbalanced inputs not balanced inputs.


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## Dethfyre (Feb 10, 2010)

What's a balanced input, as opposed to a non balanced input? I'm new this part of HT - never worked with a dedicated amp before 

Also, do I need to worry about equalization at all with this? Previously the receiver would have handled all of that - does it still or do I need an amp that allows equalization for each channel so I can send the LFE to the 15" woofers and the mid/high freq to the midranges and tweeters?

Do you have any examples of an amp(s) that I could look into? Something so I can kind of get an idea what I'm really looking at and what I should be trying to find in a good amp? It doesn't need to be fancy or terribly expensive, just something that would split my mains into a bi-amp setup and with or without equalization if I need that? I know for a receiver I'm generally looking at the number of channels, watts per channel, other bonus features like multiple HDMI ins/outs, distortion levels, etc... how does that kind of thing translate to the amp world?

And thanks again, I know these may be newb questions but I really appreciate the help. This will probably be my last reply until I get back from the honeymoon, Wife is already yelling at me to get off the PC and finish packing heh. 

Dan


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## chadnliz (Feb 12, 2010)

The recievers internal EQ will send the corrected sound to the amp but are you going to power woofers seperatly as you suggest in your post? Thats gonna take some thought unless you power the entire speaker with the new amp...or are you using a powered woofer model speaker?????, as for Balanced I knew once that was said it was only going to confuse you. Single ended means your typical RCA jacks just like the ones that feed a tape deck, a turntable and anything not digital..........balanced is for a more "pro" or commercial application but some do use these type of amps including myself. Amps that offer a great bang for the buck and can be had used cheap are Parasound, Rotel, Carver, Adcom just to name a few. New amps can be had from most of these also groups like Emotiva that sell internet direct.
Audiogon.com has tons of amps to look into (they are like EBAY for hi-fi gear) so poke around there for used options as they have stereo up to 7 channel amp catagories. There is alos classifieds here to browse but I will say if you are looking into used stay within these places and avoid EBAY as some there are not true stereo HT lovers and gear is not always treated kindly.
Feel free to privte message me if you have any questions about what to look at or even hook up and such..............I will help if I can.


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## fauzigarib (Mar 11, 2010)

Hey there,

You're getting some good responses here... I just wanted to lend a hand at explaining some basics to you, that might help you later on.

Your current receiver (or any receiver, for that matter) are made up of three components for sound handling:

The pre-amp: Basically takes the signal from the source (DVD Player, etc), and passes it onto the next step in the chain. The attenuation (volume) is also controlled at this stage.

The processor: Dolby pro-logic, etc, are all done here. This takes the signal from the pre, and splits it off into the sounds that need to be sent to the various channels.

Amp(s): This section takes the pre-amped, processed signal, amplifies it, and sends it to the appropriate speaker.

Then there are obviously separate sections for video handling, but that's out of this scope.

When the above posts are telling you to add an amp in the pre out of the receiver, that is simply passing the pre-amped, processed signal to an EXTERNAL amplifier rather than the internally supplied ones.

As such, nothing prior to the amplification changes. All of your volumes, processing, and video handling will still be done through the receiver.

I hope this helps... I don't know as much knowledge as most people here, but pm me if you think I can be of further help to you.

-Fauzi


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Dethfyre said:


> What's a balanced input, as opposed to a non balanced input? I'm new this part of HT - never worked with a dedicated amp before


Have a look at this post here.



> Also, do I need to worry about equalization at all with this? Previously the receiver would have handled all of that - does it still or do I need an amp that allows equalization for each channel so I can send the LFE to the 15" woofers and the mid/high freq to the midranges and tweeters?


The receivers built in room eq will still control the output so no real difference.



> Do you have any examples of an amp(s) that I could look into?


I personally like the Samson servo amps as they have dedicated unbalanced inputs. They also dont use fans in there lower cost models. Ebay is a great place to look for them I would look at an amp with between 100 & 200 watts per channel.


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## Dethfyre (Feb 10, 2010)

Hey Everyone!

First, thanks for all the great responses, I really appreciate it. Tony, Chad, Fauzi - you guys are awesome, this all makes much more sense now after those explanations. I also looked at the other page regarding balanced VS unbalanced inputs and that helped greatly as well.

So I have a pretty good idea now as to how I can pull this off... I need either an unbalanced 4 channel amplifier or a balanced 4 channel amp and an unbalanced to balanced signal converter. Does that sound about right? 

And then I would take the L/R channel pre-outs from my Yamaha receiver over to the new amp, and hook the L/R speaker (main and biamp) terminals to the new amp outputs - theoretically there will be two outs for the left channel and two for the right, correct?

I'm feeling much much better about this whole thing, it's starting to seem like it's more a possibility than I originally thought it would be.

As a side note, the Honeymoon was interesting (if you don't care, just skip the rest of this) - We managed to survive a direct hit from a Category 4 Hurricane with sustained wind speeds of aprx 185 MPH. We went to the Fiji islands, Qamea specifically... we got there Saturday afternoon, then spent all of Sunday evening until about 11am Tuesday morning hiding from the storm in our little hut on the beach - somehow it held up through it all. The eye of Hurricane Tomas passed directly over us about 2am Tuesday morning. We spent Tuesday afternoon helping clean up tree branches, debris and coconuts. When we left two days ago (Saturday morning) they still didn't have communications of any kind on that island or any of the others in boating distance, and the surrounding villages lost the majority of their houses and still didn't have power etc at that point. I guess we got an interesting experience out of this trip if nothing else, and we got to know several of the villagers very well and made some new friends at least.

DanO


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## Dethfyre (Feb 10, 2010)

Hmmmm... doing research on amps right now - most of them are 2 channel only from what I'm seeing of the Samson Servos at least. Would I still power one of the terminals on each L/R speaker from the Yamaha Receiver, and then run the pre-outs to the 2 channel amp and run the second terminal on each speaker from the amp then? 

I would think I would want each speaker powered only by one amp or the other, or is that not correct?

Thanks!

DanO


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

You can drive the speakers from both amps IF the amp have individual gain control for each ch (most do). What the guys have told you is kind of common practice, using a 2 ch amp to 'help', but even more commonly seen are guys using the extra amp to drive LR or LCR channels while the receiver's amp section drives the other ch. Supposedly improves dynamics more so than how you plan to implement an amp, but depending on your mains, my statement is subject to opinion, eh?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Dan, Any of the options you have mentioned will work. The thing you need to know is that bi-amping speakers is a bit of a myth as far as an improvement in sound is concerned. If done correctly you need to have EQs and such between the receiver and the amps. By just giving the speaker the proper undistorted power it needs you will have the same quality of sound you expect with the bi-amping by just using a higher power 2 channel amp to drive them.


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## offline69 (Mar 1, 2010)

Hi all,
My HT is 9.1, but I do not know conditions need to be able to hear 9.1? Dependence by Bluray Disc or...? Could anyone help me for my question?
My HT: 
- Denon AVR 3310 for Sur., Front Height, Sub, Center
- Krell KSA 300s Pow Amp for Front mains
- Krell 400 Xi Interg. Amp for Sur. Back
Pls help me.


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