# Calibration Setup for Sam. LN46A650



## perritterd

Hello. I just finished my attempt at calibrating my HDTV. I did my WB_Movie (Greyscale) adjustments from within the Service Menu!!! It gave me the ability to adjust the RGB out to almost 100% in the Gain/Offset settings. I've attached the HCFR files and am wondering if anyone with that program can look at them and tell me what else I should adjust or correct. I already know that the color CMS is not very good-I don't think there is much that I can do about it with my particular set other than the adjustments I already made. I also need to know if I should turn the WB_Movie off before exiting the service menu or leave it in the ON position. You have to turn this mode ON to edit the settings.
I would appreciate anyone's thoughts or suggestions about my next move with the calibrations for this set.

Thanks, 
Bob.


----------



## lcaillo

I am not really familiar with HCFR, as I have not looked at it since trying an early version. I will try to open your files and see what I can find, however.


----------



## perritterd

Thank you.
Bob.


----------



## mechman

It does seem like you have a red and blue problem, which is more than likely pulling your magenta out of whack. Ideally, you'd like those deltaE's to be as low as possible. The general consensus is that a deltaE of less than 3 is imperceptible to the human eye. Your red is at 44, blue is at 15 and magenta is up at 35 - almost 36. While I don't condone anyone going into the service menu and messing around, it sounds like you already have so I'd look for a way to fix the color errors. If you don't know what something is it would be best to leave it alone and ask first. Look for something that says CMS or Color Management or something like that.

As for the grayscale. it looks good. I'd try to bump red a bit at the higher end though - 60 and up. It looks good though.

Keep in mind that I am nothing more than enthusiast with no training whatsoever. :nerd: After Thursday I'll have one class under my belt though. :T


----------



## lcaillo

What meter are you using?


----------



## perritterd

mechman said:


> It does seem like you have a red and blue problem, which is more than likely pulling your magenta out of whack. Ideally, you'd like those deltaE's to be as low as possible. The general consensus is that a deltaE of less than 3 is imperceptible to the human eye. Your red is at 44, blue is at 15 and magenta is up at 35 - almost 36. While I don't condone anyone going into the service menu and messing around, it sounds like you already have so I'd look for a way to fix the color errors. If you don't know what something is it would be best to leave it alone and ask first. Look for something that says CMS or Color Management or something like that.
> 
> As for the grayscale. it looks good. I'd try to bump red a bit at the higher end though - 60 and up. It looks good though.
> 
> Keep in mind that I am nothing more than enthusiast with no training whatsoever. :nerd: After Thursday I'll have one class under my belt though. :T


mechman, thanks for the reply. I know that the colors are out of whack somewhat. That's the best I could do within the user menus. I am looking for the color balance (CMS) in the service menu, but haven't had much time to really get into it. I did redo my greyscale as you suggested and attached the new greyscale here. 

Thanks for your help.

Bob


----------



## perritterd

lcaillo said:


> What meter are you using?


Hi Icaillo...I'm using the Xrite i1 meter. I did a new cal. on my greyscale and believe it is a little better than what I posted earlier. I'll attach the file and if you have the time, appreciate any advice about how to improve my cal. for this tv. 

Bob


----------



## glaufman

There are at least two i1 meters... the i1d2/lt (display 2 or lt) and the i1pro... which one?
(


----------



## glaufman

What mode did you try to calibrate?


----------



## perritterd

glaufman said:


> There are at least two i1 meters... the i1d2/lt (display 2 or lt) and the i1pro... which one?
> (


glaufman, I have the i1/d2-why is this such an issue? You are the 2nd. person to ask me this. I only asked a question-why does the meter matter as to the results of my posted measurements? 
I am sorry to seem aggravated, because I'm not but I don't understand why the meter should matter when looking at a graph from the HCFR program? How is this relevant? 

Bob


----------



## perritterd

I calibrated in the HD709 mode-I went to the service menu to do the cal. because the user menu did such a large correction, especially at the low end, that I had use the service menu for more precise adjustments.

Bob


----------



## lcaillo

What did you adjust in the service menu, exactly?

The reason that a meter matters is that they have different characteristics. In your case, your set is a CCFL backlit set, IIRC, and the D2 is fine. It will not be as precise as a pro for colorimetry, but for gray scale it may actually be better as it can measure lower light levels.

Your set does have CMS controls in the service mode, but I would not play around in the service mode without great care. Record everything before making changes.


----------



## glaufman

Sorry if I seemed beligerent on the question. What Leonard sad is spot on IMO, but I do know others that would say the i1d2 isn't precise enough for CMS work.


----------



## lcaillo

I don't necessarily agree with that. It depends on the light source. Even the eye-one pro is not precise enough for some LED backlit systems. For most CCFL LCD, PDP, or CRT technologies, the D2 may be fine, but it is hard to say, having not used one next to a higher end meter. 

It does appear that the red is shifted quite a bit toward green. I wonder if that is the nature of this set or if some green has been added to the red in the CMS.


----------



## mechman

To add to what both Greg and Leonard say above, an i1pro is a spectrophotometer and an i1d2 or an i1lt is a colorimeter. Both the i1d2 and i1lt are filter based. And these filters, if not properly cared for can degrade over time causing a drift in the measurements. How much? I don't know. I own a Colormunki Create which is the same meter as an i1d2/i1lt. The advice I was given was to store the meter in a cool and dry place out of the sunlight. I store it in a ziploc bag that has another bag inside it with desiccant. 

I do have an i1pro as well to profile my Colormunki Create.


----------



## glaufman

lcaillo said:


> I don't necessarily agree with that. It depends on the light source. Even the eye-one pro is not precise enough for some LED backlit systems. For most CCFL LCD, PDP, or CRT technologies, the D2 may be fine, but it is hard to say, having not used one next to a higher end meter.
> 
> It does appear that the red is shifted quite a bit toward green. I wonder if that is the nature of this set or if some green has been added to the red in the CMS.


I agree with you Len... I'm simply pointing out that there are others who do not.


----------



## perritterd

lcaillo said:


> What did you adjust in the service menu, exactly?
> 
> The reason that a meter matters is that they have different characteristics. In your case, your set is a CCFL backlit set, IIRC, and the D2 is fine. It will not be as precise as a pro for colorimetry, but for gray scale it may actually be better as it can measure lower light levels.
> 
> Your set does have CMS controls in the service mode, but I would not play around in the service mode without great care. Record everything before making changes.


Hi Icaillo. I adjusted only the "WB_Movie" settings-the R-B Gain/Offset...I had the AVCHD calibration disc in and the 85/20 IRE (I believe) up at the time and I adjusted the "WB_Movie" settings until I got the RGB readings to near 100% for both the Gain/Offset for the HCFR window displays from the disc. I posted a 2nd. HCFR profile graph that I believe was better than the first (I think I sent you the attachment). I appreciate your help and time in this matter. 

Thank you.
Bob


----------



## perritterd

glaufman said:


> Sorry if I seemed beligerent on the question. What Leonard sad is spot on IMO, but I do know others that would say the i1d2 isn't precise enough for CMS work.


Hi glaufman. No problem...I agree that my CMS CIE graph is pretty poor even when I look at it!! I've not yet seemed to be able to locate the CMS controls in the Service menu, but I will look more indepth later in my Service Manual that I purchased for this set. And, as Icaillo pointed out, I will record all settings before adjusting/changing anything.

Thanks for your help.
Bob


----------



## glaufman

You're remembering to recalibrate the i1d2 every 10 mins or so, right?


----------



## perritterd

glaufman said:


> You're remembering to recalibrate the i1d2 every 10 mins or so, right?


Nooo...I have not seen anything anywheres saying that I should do that. The only thing that I do to calibrate my i1 is to do the "black planar" calibration prior to starting my greyscale runs. Is there some other cal. that I should be doing????

Bob.


----------



## mechman

glaufman said:


> You're remembering to recalibrate the i1d2 every 10 mins or so, right?


Does the D2 require that Greg? My Create doesn't. Hook it up and you're good to go until you're done. The pro, on the other, hand requires the recalibration.


----------



## glaufman

Maybe I have them confused... I thought the d2 did, but my dtp94 doesn't...

IIRC if it needs it, you can set HCFR to remind you... I can't do that when I tell it I'm using the '94...

if you can HCFR to remind you, it needs it... otherwise...

Leonard?


----------



## glaufman

Or maybe Bill's around from Spectracal? (bear5k)


----------



## lcaillo

I have never used either, so I don't know. The eye-one does, but it is a very different critter, being a spectrophotometer as opposed to a tri-stimulus colorimeter.


----------



## mechman

From what I have found out through the internet (this means it's not 100%), the i1d2 and my Colormunki Create are one and the same. Which means that there is no dark calibration required.


----------



## glaufman

HCFR allows you to set a reminder for recal for either the i1d2 or i1pro, but not the DTP94, so maybe it's generic... I thought it was specifically only for the one meter that needed it.

That's funny anyway, thought, because I see the ColorMunki Create and it most definitely LOOKS like an i1d2, but... the ColorMunki (without the "create"), is most definitely a low end spectro...


----------



## mechman

Doh! I am speaking from a CalMAN standpoint. :doh: I haven't run HCFR for a calibration in a long time and when I did it was more than likely with my i1pro. I usually just look at files with it. For CalMAN though, there is no initialization or dark calibration needed. I assumed it would be the same with HCFR. :hide:


----------



## perritterd

glaufman said:


> HCFR allows you to set a reminder for recal for either the i1d2 or i1pro, but not the DTP94, so maybe it's generic... I thought it was specifically only for the one meter that needed it.
> 
> That's funny anyway, thought, because I see the ColorMunki Create and it most definitely LOOKS like an i1d2, but... the ColorMunki (without the "create"), is most definitely a low end spectro...


Hi glaufman. You seem to be up on this calibration routine pretty good. When I went into the "Service" menu, I had to turn on the WB_Movie settings in order to make edits to the setting numbers already there. My questions are: 

1. When backing out of the WB_Movie menu, should I return the menu back to the Off position or should I leave it on so that the changes I made are brought up after shutting down the tv? 
2. How can I increase my contrast ratio-mine is only running around 1580-1600 and I've read where others are actually getting above 3000 with the same set!!! If you are familiar w/the HCFR program, I've heard that NEAR White & NEAR Black help you adjust out your contrast/brightness settings on your tv-what should I be trying to determine from the results of these runs? 

EDIT: Can you recommend a book or website that I could go to and learn about calibration and the different terminology/readings that I get and to interpret them? I know HCFR does a lot more than just the RGB greyscale/color calibrations and I'm trying to learn more about this field. I'm heading to over to HCFR now and see what is available for assistance. 

Appreciate your assistance.
Bob


----------



## mechman

Bob,

Have you read this yet? It's a pretty comprehensive guide to using HCFR. It's what I used when I started. :T


----------



## perritterd

mechman said:


> Bob,
> 
> Have you read this yet? It's a pretty comprehensive guide to using HCFR. It's what I used when I started. :T


mechman, no I haven't but I will now! 

Thanks,
Bob.


----------



## perritterd

mechman, I take it back. I have read that "Greyscale for Dummies" many times-in fact, I have a link to it on my desktop! I use it extensively when doing cal. for my tv-always referring back to it...but, the HCFR program does so much more, i.e. the NEAR White/Black. It is these other functions along w/proper setup of contrast ratios, the information that is available in the "DATA" column on the left side of the display, the saturation graphs, etc. that I am trying to learn and understand. I can't seem to find a comprehensive explanation for the HCFR program that describes all the workings and functions of the program-how to interpet the data that the program generates. 

Thanks for the help.
Bob


----------



## glaufman

Sorry for the late reply, but your best bet may be to ask away...


----------



## glaufman

perritterd said:


> Hi glaufman. You seem to be up on this calibration routine pretty good.


Leonard (and I suspect Mech) are probably much better on it than I. I just may be the only one who uses HCFR on a regular basis... 

Unfortunately I can't help you much with the specific tv...


As for contrast ratio, don't pay so much atention to numbers. They just don't mean that much. The exact setting you arrive at for your white and black points can vary a bit depending on your viewing environment, which of course will affect your contrast ratio numbers... what you're going for with black (brightness) is to clip at exactly the right point. What you're going for with white is no clipping below video white, no color shift at the high end, and no eyestrain. It's this last one that is affected most by your environment.

I've never actually used the near black and near white scans in HCFR. Mainly because my computer is the only source I have to generate those patterns, and I don't really trust it (yet) to display them as intended.

If you do, then I suppose what you're looking for is that they're being displayed properly. If not, you may tweak brightness/contrast or any gamma controls you have, but I just don't think that's necessary.


----------



## mechman

perritterd said:


> 1. When backing out of the WB_Movie menu, should I return the menu back to the Off position or should I leave it on so that the changes I made are brought up after shutting down the tv?


More than likely, it would shut off the changes you made. So I'd suggest leaving it on. The easiest way to check is to take measures after you made your changes and then again when you shut it off. If the numbers are different, it's shutting off the changes you made.



perritterd said:


> 2. How can I increase my contrast ratio-mine is only running around 1580-1600 and I've read where others are actually getting above 3000 with the same set!!! If you are familiar w/the HCFR program, I've heard that NEAR White & NEAR Black help you adjust out your contrast/brightness settings on your tv-what should I be trying to determine from the results of these runs?


Setting contrast and brightness isn't something you do or measure with a meter. You do it with your eyes and the Pluge High and Low images. When you get those set to where they accommodate your eyes and your environment, you're done. Numbers are just that, numbers. I wouldn't worry at all about what others are getting. 



perritterd said:


> EDIT: Can you recommend a book or website that I could go to and learn about calibration and the different terminology/readings that I get and to interpret them? I know HCFR does a lot more than just the RGB greyscale/color calibrations and I'm trying to learn more about this field. I'm heading to over to HCFR now and see what is available for assistance.


Well you've read one of the better guides out there. :scratchhead: But there are several other things you can explore.

Tom Huffman of Chromapure has some Color Science write-ups here. If you look at his menu system at the top there are also videos on how to use his product. While they are specific to Chromapure, they may help you.

SpectraCal also offers some tips on using CalMAN on their site. They also offered a national training bootcamp recently, which is coming to a close in October. They traveled around the country to all of the Major League Baseball cities and offered a one day training course for professionals and a 3 hour session for enthusiasts. They plan on doing it again next year so you may want to attend the enthusiast class when it comes to Florida.

Joe Kane has some things on his site as well.

Since I was in your shoes a few years back, I think the best way to learn is to look at Tom's write-ups, read the Greyscale for Dummies (which you did), and then to do it. There really is no better way to learn it than hands on. And the more you do it the quicker you get. I think my first attempt on my old Mitsubishi pj took something like 6 hours over two days. I just re-did my current pj last week (new bulb had ~100hours on it) and it took a couple hours. 

If you have more questions you can post them here or up in the calibration sticky as you have in the past. :T


----------

