# REW V5 Beta feedback



## JohnM

Please post all comments, issues etc on the REW V5 beta release here. The beta files are available in the downloads area, a summary of the new features can be found here. Hope you like it 

*Latest update (16th January 2011, Beta 9)*

Increased the maximum number of measurements to 30
Added Thiele-Small Parameter calculation tool
Added an overlay graph in the main window, second graph in list
Selection states of traces in single measurement graphs (not overlays) are remembered for the next startup
Added option in SPL log graph controls to show times as time of day
Added Tools menu entry and ctrl+shift+O shortcut to show the SPL Logger window
Right side of SPL Log window is automatically updated when traces reach right edge
Greatly reduced the graphics and processor load when logging SPL data
SPL logger time axis was limited to 500s max (now allows 24h span)
Cursor position on SPL log graph was not shown as hh:mm:ss
SPL log trace values were offset by 1 sample
Last SPL Logger axis settings were not restored on next powerup
Traces below valid frequency were not shown dashed when smoothing was applied
When IR windows were not under REW automatic control the frequency resolution in the IR windows frame did not update correctly and the window edges on the impulse plot were not shown correctly
Measurement info frame was not closed when all measurements were removed
Calibration message was not visible when setting refR to zero for Impedance measurement calibration
Impedance measurement reference resistor value was not restored on next startup
Adjusted RTA "Forever" average to fix trace error that occurred after several hours
Updated measurement info window to correctly label data range for impedance measurements
Reminder about calibration shown on measurement dialog if measuring impedance and calibration not done
Filter export failed if there were no filters active
Under OS X launching REW by double-clicking an mdat file would give a null pointer exception after loading the measurements
Reduce height of Preferences window if screen height less than 640 pixels 


*12th December 2010 (Beta 8):*

Revamped SPL meter with full integrating and logging functionality including equivalent sound level and sound exposure level. Meter uses mic/meter and soundcard calibration and allows A, C or Z weighting. SPL values can be logged and saved to file.
Added a message at end of SPL meter calibration showing the maximum SPL that can be recorded without clipping
Removed the SPL meter calibration controls from the Mic/Meter Preferences
Changed the "Averaged" overlay graph to an "Arithmetic" graph, adding the ability to add, subtract, multiply, divide, vector average and merge pairs of measurements as well as SPL average sets of measurements
Allow multiple SPL Average measurements to be generated and their names to be edited
Added All Pass filters to Generic and MiniDSP equalisers
Added an "Adjust RTA Levels" option to shift RTA plot levels so they correspond to sweep levels
RTA now updates plot at input capture rate (every 8k samples) and overlaps FFT blocks. The degree of overlap is shown in RTA window title and can be lmiited by an overlap control. An Update Interval control has been added to allow the rate at which the plot is redrawn to be reduced if processor loading is too high.
Added option to write filters to both banks of BFD DSP1124P and FBQ2496
Remember BFD DSP1124P bank and preset and FBQ2496 bank for next startup
Changed 96PPO log spaced conversion to be off by default
Phase trace defaults to not selected
Measurement cal file dialogs default to directories of default cal files
Added all smoothing steps to the graph menu, removed smoothing selector box from SPL & Phase and GD graph groups
Added default impulse response window width controls to the Analysis preferences
EQ match settings (match range, boost allowed, flatness) remembered for next startup
Forced dot as the decimal format separator for MinDSP file exports
Fixed occasional incorrect downward blip in VU meter peak bars
Measurement plots did not appear on RTA panel when axis was set to dB FS

*27th October 2010:*

Fixed bug that stopped EQ target match running for some measurements

*24th October 2010*

Added a MiniDSP EQ setting (same filters as Generic), filter coefficients are saved to file for use with the MiniDSP advanced plugin
Generic equaliser setting now allows 0.01Hz frequency adjustments below 100Hz
Added "LPQ" and "HPQ" 2nd order LP and HP filters with adjustable Q for Generic and MiniDSP equalisers
Added checks for sensible target level before running Match to Target (within 10dB of REW estimate and less than 75% of the span lying above or below the target)
EQ window target settings now operate without a measurement loaded
EQ Window pole-zero plot can now show filter poles/zeroes without having to load a measurement
Added new graph "Filtered IR" to view octave and one-third octave filtered impulse response for ISO 3382 acoustic decay parameters, when a filter is active all traces are affected, which is indicated by (for example) [500Hz 1/3] in the trace name in the graph legend
Show the EDT, T20, T30 and Topt traces separately on the individual measurement RT60 plot
Extended the one-third octave RT60 values to include the 63 and 80Hz bands
Show correlation coefficient in RT60 decay time trace name when selected for display
Show Schroeder integral dB range used to derive Topt in trace name
Removed Schroeder trace from Impulse graph, now shown on Filtered IR graph
Modified Schroeder calculation to use the 1st point the IR exceeds 1% of the peak as the start time (previously used the time of the peak)
Added a most-recently-used list to the File menu for measurement files and imported impulse response files
Added an option in the graph image capture to choose whether the cursor is included
Added a check box on the soundcard settings to enable a high pass filter (for use if the soundcard has a DC offset)
Allowed an additional soundcard error message to be suppressed (no input mixers)
Added help section on the basics of signals and measurements
Added help section on what EQ can and cannot do for us
Added an Analysis setting to allow responses to be plotted at frequencies below the minimum valid frequency for the current IR window width (drawn dashed below valid frequency)
Exported response data starts at lowest frequency in measurement even if this is below the min valid freq for the current IR window
Reduced waterfall smoothing from 1/24 octave to 1/48 octave
Added a check box in View Preferences to control whether a confirmation is requested when removing an unsaved measurement, box also shown on the confirmation dialog
Added a File menu entry to restore the last measurement that was removed (places it at end of measurement list)
Added a new colour scheme for spectrograms, "Copper", and a gamma control to alter the color scale distribution
Added an entry under the File -> Export menu to set the character to use as a delimiter for measurements exported as text
Window widths for IR windows, spectrogram, waterfall and decay allow 1 decimal place for values < 10, min value of 0.5ms
Modified the input warning messages to better distinguish between measured and reference input errors
Increased interval between filters on FBQ Midi transfer to 1200ms (from 1000ms) after report of intermittent filter loading, added a control to adjust the delay in the Comms Preferences
Speeded up deleting of old measurements to make way for new
Use circles instead of squares to show trace data points
Prevented REW altering mixer volume controls unless the check boxes for controlling volume are selected
RT60 and ETC overlay tooltips did not show measurement notes
Filter Q and T60 controls were not enabled correctly after sorting
Modal simulation impulse was inverted when including response filters
If impulse is inverted, equalised impulse should be inverted also
Change Cal panel mic/meter cal file text did not update when changing inverse C check box
Inverse C flag was not being applied for predicted measurement
1/6th octave smoothing was missing from the graph menu
Offset spinner in SPL & Phase controls did not update when a different measurement was selected
Switching between normal and time-reversed filtering for RT60 calculations could sometimes give erroneous values in some bands
Improved overall max boost limiting in Match Target function
Faster and more precise IR envelope calculation
More precision for ETC smoothing selection
Fixed possible exception when importing long impulse responses
Changed default for individual EQ filter boost max to 9dB and overall max boost to 0dB

*Known issues*

Under OS X the waterfall plot can be obscured by the grid when the waterfall is generated, workaround is to move the mouse cursor over the measurement name in the legend panel below the graph.


*Beta 5 2nd August 2010:*

Added modal analysis feature in EQ window with an associated pole-zero plot type
Updated EQ Window help to cover modal analysis features and pole-zero plot
Changed REW icon and splash image
Zero-pad imported impulse responses so they span at least 1 second
Removed "Calculate Phase" buttons from SPL & Phase controls and Overlay Phase controls, can use Apply Windows if phase not present on an old measurement
Reduced button left/right border space on displays with horz resolution <= 1024 pixels
Added button in EQ panel to collapse/expand the task panes on right hand side
Updated help files, added Tools menu help
Faster waterfall, decay and spectrogram generation
If a window gets too narrow to show all its graph select buttons a continuation button is shown which brings up a list of the other graphs that can be selected
Added a check box to the update notification to allow beta versions found during automatic update checks to be ignored
Improvements in Modal simulation tool
"New version" dialog will show info about the features of the available version
Changed labelling of Modal filters from "MO" to "Modal"
Modified plot interpolation to prevent under/overshoot near large transients
Put the measurement number back in the EQ window title
Disable predicted phase and predicted SPL traces for impedance measurements, predictions only valid for SPL measurements
Added tooltips showing the measurement notes for traces in the overlay window
Allowed longer measurement names
Modified the trace color chooser dialog to add a "Set Default Colours" button that sets all trace colours to the defaults
Fixed a bug with waterfall, decay and spectrogram plots that caused the plots to be shifted along the frequency axis for window widths < 100ms in some circumstances
Fixed a minor graph redraw bug
Fixed a bug with Gaussian window at long window durations
Fixed bug in handling of RH scroll bar on graphs
Fixed a bug that meant AWT file dialog was used under Windows, should only be used under OS X


*New Features/Changes in V5* 

New user interface 
Separate Overlay, RTA and EQ windows 
Increased max measurements to 20
Added an "SPL & Phase" graph group to show magnitude and phase of current tab with controls to unwrap the phase
Added button to estimate the IR delay (by cross correlation with a minimum phase converted version of the IR) 
Added a "Phase" graph group to show the phase response of measurements 
Added a "Group Delay" graph group to show the group delay of measurements
With the addition of the phase & group delay plots absolute time becomes important, so a left channel loopback can be used as a timing reference (selected via the Analysis Settings), the old use of "left as cal ref" has been removed as has the "System Delay" from the info panel, no longer valid with left as timing ref. 
Added a step response plot to the impulse graph group and a step responses overlay graph group 
Added spectrogram display 
Added impedance measurement
Waterfall and spectral decay minimum window widths reduced to 0.5ms (from 50ms), min waterfall range reduced to 10ms (from 200ms) 
Waterfall maximum window width increased to 1500ms, maximum time range increased to 1500ms 
Decay maximum window width increased to 1500ms 
Waterfall time range and window settings remembered for next startup 
Waterfall automatically updated if window or time range are changed 
Button added to restore default waterfall settings 
Decay time step and window settings remembered for next startup 
Decay automatically updated if window or time step are changed 
Button added to restore default decay settings 
Assigned shortcut keys to the graph corner buttons (Alt+G for Generate etc) 
Frequency responses are converted to logarithmically spaced data at 96 points per octave if this uses less memory than linearly spaced data, provided the associated check box is selected in the Analysis settings (it is selected by default) 
Changed RTA averaging to offer exponential with varying filter factor and a "Forever" linear average
Modified the check levels routine on the measurement panel to use subcal for sweep end <= 300Hz, spkrcal for sweep that includes 500..2000Hz or a custom pink that spans the sweep range otherwise 
Changed ETC y axis default to percent 
File previewer shows delta frequency and data length for MLSSA .frq files 
MLSSA .frq exports limited to 32k samples 
Text exports of measurements are limited to 65,530 rows so data can be pasted into spreadsheets with 64k row limits 
Small changes to the format of the IR exported as text to allow easier parsing of the file 
Changed default freq axis setting for waterfall and spectral decay plots to logarithmic 
Added option in Save Graph As JPEG dialog to include the graph legend 
Graph JPEGs optionally include the title of the graph and show whether smoothing has been applied
Added option in Save Graph As JPEG dialog to include a line of text to appear under the title 
Added a Cancel button to the exit warning dialog which appears if there are unsaved measurements
Made the y axis grid steps independent for each Y axis type 
When saving a measurement the filename defaults to the measurement name 
Graph cursor shows level as well as frequency 
Automatic trace highlighting when the mouse cursor is placed over the trace legend name. This changes the trace plotting order so that the highlighted trace is drawn last, on top of all others, and with a translucent background to help it stand out. Particularly useful for overlay plots. 
Label the fundamental with "1" when showing distortion harmonics on the RTA plot, draw labels on translucent background 
The IR start time can be offset by a specified time as well as a specified number of samples 
Added Alt+Up Arrow and Alt+Down Arrow shortcuts to select the previous or next measurement respectively 
Mic/meter and soundcard calibrations accept phase as well as SPL corrections 
Soundcard calibration procedure generates phase as well as SPL corrections 
The individual data points in the stimulus, captured and impulse traces are shown when the trace is zoomed in sufficiently (this can be turned on/off via the trace controls panel in each case) 
Added an Analysis setting to select between setting the zero time for the impulse response at the peak of the impulse or at the first point the response goes above 1% of peak energy (10% of peak level) 
Added support for impulse response import from AIFF files 
FR thumbnail is updated when smoothing is changed 
Mic/Meter and Soundcard cal data are held within the mdat file 
Mic/Meter and Soundcard cal filenames are shown on the measurement panel 
Mic/Meter and Soundcard cal full file paths are shown in the Info Panel 
If, when a measurement which does not contain cal data is loaded, the cal files it used match the current default cal files they are automatically copied into the measurement 
Added 1/6 octave smoothing shortcut ctrl+shift+6 
Allow semicolon as value separator in imported data 
Added cut/copy/paste popup menu for measurement notes area 
Changed default interpolation for house curves to logarithmic 
Impulse Response import from .wav/.aiff/.pcm takes first 256k samples (was 128k) 
Increased font size for help text by 1 point 
SPL meter cal allows cal ref values up to 150dB (previous 100dB limit too low in some cases) 

*EQ Features*

Separate EQ window with split screen graph display, the top graph is like the old Filter Adjust graph, while below that there are plots of either the waterfall for the measurement or the impulse response. The divider between the upper and lower plots can be moved by dragging it. 
In the Filter Tasks pane there is a "Match filters to Target" that uses some new algorithms to assign EQ filters to bring the measured response onto the target response (as selected/adjusted from the Target pane) 
The Predicted results of EQ can be seen on the waterfall and impulse response displays with optional live update as filter settings are changed 
Modal analysis feature added to determine room resonances
Predicted results are generated by applying filters directly to the measurement impulse response 
There is a new Modal (MO) filter type to help targeting modal resonances, it is a convenience for configuring a PK filter to match a specific mode decay time. To match any particular mode RT60 time the filter bandwidth needs to be adjusted whenever the filter gain is changed, when the "MO" type is selected and the required RT60 time dialled up REW will control the bandwidth to match the gain you select, and alter the bandwidth if you adjust the gain.
Added options to fill the filter responses, show individual filter responses and fill the individual responses on the filter Adjust graph page 
EQ controls accelerate when arrow buttons held down 
Added a "Predicted Phase" overlay group 
Took filter sort key and direction selection out of Equaliser settings and put them on filters panel, added bandwidth and area sort keys 
To change the currently selected measurement from the EQ panel (or anywhere else) use Alt+the number of the measurement, e.g. Alt+1 to select the first measurement 

*Bug fixes (from V4)*

Waterfall and decay plots were sometimes drawn incorrectly when frequency axis was linear 
Using left as ref caused boosting of LF noise 
Changing EQ type did not realign internal filter settings to match ranges and resolutions of newly selected EQ 
Start time of captured data trace on scope plot was at -1s when not using left channel as ref 
Trace graph label was not immediately updated when measurement name was changed 
Rounding errors could accumulate when full range measurements were exported as text giving incorrect frequencies at the end of the file 
Data import failed on data using comma as decimal separator 
Values in MLSSA .frq exports were dB SPL, changed to linear magnitude 
Adding trace offset to data when trace was smoothed would result in the offset being lost when smoothing was changed 
Check box for regression line on impulse response page is only enabled when y axis is dB FS 
ETC smoothing spinner on impulse controls page was not updated when changing between measurements 
Corrected direction of y axis scroll bar 
Mic/Meter cal file trace is active if "C weighted SPL meter" is selected 
Corrected part number and image for Radio Shack 1/8" to RCA Y adaptor cable in help 
When smoothing is applied to a measurement the Predicted trace now correctly shows the effect of smoothing the filtered measurement 
The Predicted trace now correctly shows the effect of IR windowing the filtered measurement 
The RTA graph showed dB values for the current saved measurement even when the axis was set to dB FS 
Soundcard level at 1kHz could be reported incorrectly in soundcard measurement 
Added filename validation to restrict saved filenames to alphanumeric, -, . and _ characters as certain illegal characters (e.g. ":") could cause internal errors 
Minimum displayed frequency would not reduce to reflect correct minimum for IR window width 
Peak sample in filter or impulse responses exported as WAV could be inverted


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## minaximal

wow, looks great!

i'm already checking out my waterfalls and spectograms, and the new ui is excellent.

would / could the prospect of scaleograms be used for polar maps?

thanks al


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## laser188139

Thank you, John. This will be an adventure figuring out the new displays and what all the information means, especially the effect of converting the impulse response to minimum phase. 

Playing with the SPL and Phase window, for a particular measurement dataset I can change the smoothing from Smooth 1/1 to Smooth 1/24, but it does not seem to let me select No Smoothing. When I try, the pulldown switches to 1/24. I've not yet tried comparing the resulting display to v4.11 to see if the displayed data is really unsmoothed or 1/24. If it matters, I see this loading a pre-existing v4.11 .mdat file, I've not yet tried generating a new one. This is on the Windows version, running on XP. 

Thanks,
Bill


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## minaximal

i can select no smoothing fine in the same window from a v4.11 mdat.. i'm running wondows 7 though?


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> for a particular measurement dataset I can change the smoothing from Smooth 1/1 to Smooth 1/24, but it does not seem to let me select No Smoothing. When I try, the pulldown switches to 1/24.


The default behaviour for REW V5 is to convert the measurements to log spaced at 96PPO if the resulting file would be smaller than leaving the data linearly spaced (usually the case if the end frequency is above 1kHz or so). To allow 96PPO sampling the data has to be smoothed to prevent aliasing, hence you cannot go back to a completely unsmoothed measurement in that case. There is an option in the Analysis settings to control whether the 96PPO log spaced conversion is used, it would usually be worth allowing it.


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## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ... There is an option in the Analysis settings to control whether the 96PPO log spaced conversion is used, it would usually be worth allowing it.


That explains it, John. I saw the same issue when generating a new measurement, even on a sub measurement to just 400Hz (but with a maximum 1M sweep length). I disabled the 96PPO log spaced conversion, generated a new measurement, and No smoothing is an available option and the initial selection. 

Thanks,
Bill


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## newsound

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Crashes on my MacBook Pro 15 Core 2 Duo on launch. OSX 10.5.8.


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## shal

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Hello,

Error during launching the application.

I am on Linux (Ubuntu Lucid) and use java 1.6.0_20.

The GUI start to open but freeze during launching.

This error is report:
$ java -jar RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar
2 mai 2010 10:28:30 roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
INFO: Room EQ Wizard started
2 mai 2010 10:28:30 roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
GRAVE: Error during startup java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/jdesktop/jxlayer/plaf/LayerUI

The jxlayer.jar is present in the current directory (with RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar).


Thank you


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## antani

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Java crashes on my Mac Mini with OSX 10.6.3

It works smoothly on Windows 7.


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## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



newsound said:


> Crashes on my MacBook Pro 15 Core 2 Duo on launch. OSX 10.5.8.





antani said:


> Java crashes on my Mac Mini with OSX 10.6.3


Please look in the log files in your home directory under library -> logs -> REW to see if any error messages have been recorded there.


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## antani

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

No log is available, however this is the error message


Code:


Process:         JavaApplicationStub [2912]
Path:            /Applications/RoomEQWizardV5Beta.app/Contents/MacOS/JavaApplicationStub
Identifier:      com.apple.javajdk16.Room EQ Wizard
Version:         ??? (5.0 Beta)
Code Type:       X86 (Native)
Parent Process:  launchd [81]

Date/Time:       2010-05-02 12:15:44.795 +0200
OS Version:      Mac OS X 10.6.3 (10D573)
Report Version:  6

Interval Since Last Report:          370443 sec
Crashes Since Last Report:           5
Per-App Interval Since Last Report:  55 sec
Per-App Crashes Since Last Report:   5
Anonymous UUID:                      559886C9-0530-44E5-B952-9B3F8516C0CC

Exception Type:  EXC_BAD_ACCESS (SIGBUS)
Exception Codes: KERN_PROTECTION_FAILURE at 0x0000000000000000
Crashed Thread:  3

Application Specific Information:

Java information:
 Exception type: Bus Error (0xa) at pc=0x95054080

 Java VM: Java HotSpot(TM) Client VM (14.3-b01-101 mixed mode, sharing macosx-x86)

Current thread (0x02800400):  JavaThread "main" [_thread_in_native, id=-1332719616, stack(0xb0105000,0xb0905000)]
Stack: [0xb0105000,0xb0905000]
Java frames: (J=compiled Java code, j=interpreted, Vv=VM code)
j  com.sun.media.sound.MidiInDeviceProvider.nGetName(I)Ljava/lang/String;+0
j  com.sun.media.sound.MidiInDeviceProvider.access$100(I)Ljava/lang/String;+1
j  com.sun.media.sound.MidiInDeviceProvider$MidiInDeviceInfo.<init>(ILjava/lang/Class;)V+2
j  com.sun.media.sound.MidiInDeviceProvider$MidiInDeviceInfo.<init>(ILjava/lang/Class;Lcom/sun/media/sound/MidiInDeviceProvider$1;)V+3
j  com.sun.media.sound.MidiInDeviceProvider.createInfo(I)Lcom/sun/media/sound/AbstractMidiDeviceProvider$Info;+17
j  com.sun.media.sound.AbstractMidiDeviceProvider.readDeviceInfos()V+101
j  com.sun.media.sound.AbstractMidiDeviceProvider.getDeviceInfo()[Ljavax/sound/midi/MidiDevice$Info;+1
j  javax.sound.midi.MidiSystem.getMidiDeviceInfo()[Ljavax/sound/midi/MidiDevice$Info;+36
j  roomeqwizard.qB.B()V+12
j  roomeqwizard.qB.A(Ljava/lang/String;)Z+0
j  roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.B()V+219
j  roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.main([Ljava/lang/String;)V+91
v  ~StubRoutines::call_stub
j  sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke0(Ljava/lang/reflect/Method;Ljava/lang/Object;[Ljava/lang/Object;)Ljava/lang/Object;+0
j  sun.reflect.NativeMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Ljava/lang/Object;[Ljava/lang/Object;)Ljava/lang/Object;+87
j  sun.reflect.DelegatingMethodAccessorImpl.invoke(Ljava/lang/Object;[Ljava/lang/Object;)Ljava/lang/Object;+6
j  java.lang.reflect.Method.invoke(Ljava/lang/Object;[Ljava/lang/Object;)Ljava/lang/Object;+161
j  apple.launcher.LaunchRunner.run()V+76
j  apple.launcher.LaunchRunner.callMain()V+1
j  apple.launcher.JavaApplicationLauncher.launch(JJZ)V+11
v  ~StubRoutines::call_stub

Java Threads: ( => current thread )
  0x02016400 JavaThread "Image Fetcher 1" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1316831232, stack(0xb172c000,0xb182c000)]
  0x02015400 JavaThread "Timer-0" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1317888000, stack(0xb162a000,0xb172a000)]
  0x02013800 JavaThread "TimerQueue" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1318944768, stack(0xb1528000,0xb1628000)]
  0x0287a400 JavaThread "AWT-EventQueue-0" [_thread_blocked, id=-1320001536, stack(0xb1426000,0xb1526000)]
  0x02038400 JavaThread "Image Fetcher 0" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1321058304, stack(0xb1324000,0xb1424000)]
  0x02033400 JavaThread "Java2D Disposer" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1322115072, stack(0xb1222000,0xb1322000)]
  0x02873400 JavaThread "AWT-Shutdown" [_thread_blocked, id=-1323208704, stack(0xb1117000,0xb1217000)]
  0x02873000 JavaThread "AWT-AppKit" daemon [_thread_in_native, id=-1606392608, stack(0xbf800000,0xc0000000)]
  0x02011000 JavaThread "Low Memory Detector" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1325322240, stack(0xb0f13000,0xb1013000)]
  0x0200fc00 JavaThread "CompilerThread0" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1326379008, stack(0xb0e11000,0xb0f11000)]
  0x02811800 JavaThread "Signal Dispatcher" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1327435776, stack(0xb0d0f000,0xb0e0f000)]
  0x0200e400 JavaThread "Finalizer" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1328492544, stack(0xb0c0d000,0xb0d0d000)]
  0x0200d800 JavaThread "Reference Handler" daemon [_thread_blocked, id=-1329549312, stack(0xb0b0b000,0xb0c0b000)]
=>0x02800400 JavaThread "main" [_thread_in_native, id=-1332719616, stack(0xb0105000,0xb0905000)]
Other Threads:
  0x0280fc00 VMThread [stack: 0xb0a09000,0xb0b09000] [id=-1330606080]
  0x02812400 WatcherThread [stack: 0xb1015000,0xb1115000] [id=-1324265472]

VM state:not at safepoint (normal execution)
VM Mutex/Monitor currently owned by a thread: None

Heap
 def new generation   total 1664K, used 271K [0x0d010000, 0x0d1e0000, 0x0f770000)
  eden space 1472K,   5% used [0x0d010000, 0x0d023f68, 0x0d180000)
  from space 192K, 100% used [0x0d180000, 0x0d1b0000, 0x0d1b0000)
  to   space 192K,   0% used [0x0d1b0000, 0x0d1b0000, 0x0d1e0000)
 tenured generation   total 22720K, used 2803K [0x0f770000, 0x10da0000, 0x2d010000)
   the space 22720K,  12% used [0x0f770000, 0x0fa2cc18, 0x0fa2ce00, 0x10da0000)
 compacting perm gen  total 12288K, used 619K [0x2d010000, 0x2dc10000, 0x31010000)
   the space 12288K,   5% used [0x2d010000, 0x2d0aaee0, 0x2d0ab000, 0x2dc10000)
    ro space 8192K,  91% used [0x31010000, 0x31766f08, 0x31767000, 0x31810000)
    rw space 12288K,  74% used [0x31810000, 0x3210ead0, 0x3210ec00, 0x32410000)

Virtual Machine Arguments:
JVM Args: -Xbootclasspath/a:/System/Library/PrivateFrameworks/JavaApplicationLauncher.framework/Resources/LauncherSupport.jar -Xms24mm -Xmx512mm -Dapple.laf.useScreenMenuBar=true 
Java Command: <unknown>
Launcher Type: generic
Physical Memory: Page Size = 4k, Total = 1024M, Free = 113M


Thread 0:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x9508200f __CFRunLoopRun + 2079
3   com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x950810f4 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 452
4   com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x95080f21 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 97
5   com.apple.HIToolbox           	0x965740fc RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 392
6   com.apple.HIToolbox           	0x96573eb1 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 354
7   com.apple.HIToolbox           	0x96573d36 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 81
8   com.apple.AppKit              	0x95c74135 _DPSNextEvent + 847
9   com.apple.AppKit              	0x95c73976 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 156
10  com.apple.AppKit              	0x95c35bef -[NSApplication run] + 821
11  libawt.jnilib                 	0x053aedfa +[AWTStarter startAWT:] + 1706
12  libawt.jnilib                 	0x0536c727 -[CPerformer perform] + 243
13  com.apple.Foundation          	0x977e2de5 __NSThreadPerformPerform + 506
14  com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x9508415b __CFRunLoopDoSources0 + 1563
15  com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x95081c1f __CFRunLoopRun + 1071
16  com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x950810f4 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 452
17  com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x95080f21 CFRunLoopRunInMode + 97
18  ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher	0x0000858e startupJava(LauncherArgsStruct*) + 342
19  ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher	0x000078cf launchJavaApplication + 1355
20  JavaApplicationStub           	0x00001e8e 0x1000 + 3726
21  JavaApplicationStub           	0x00001cf0 0x1000 + 3312
22  JavaApplicationStub           	0x00001c1d 0x1000 + 3101

Thread 1:  Dispatch queue: com.apple.libdispatch-manager
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f3b42 kevent + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f425c _dispatch_mgr_invoke + 215
2   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f3719 _dispatch_queue_invoke + 163
3   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f34be _dispatch_worker_thread2 + 240
4   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f2f41 _pthread_wqthread + 390
5   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f2d86 start_wqthread + 30

Thread 2:
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f2bd2 __workq_kernreturn + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f3168 _pthread_wqthread + 941
2   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930f2d86 start_wqthread + 30

Thread 3 Crashed:
0   com.apple.CoreFoundation      	0x95054080 CFStringGetCStringPtr + 128
1   libjsound.jnilib              	0x0824eeea Java_com_sun_media_sound_HAEShutdownHook_createNativeRef + 3284
2   libjsound.jnilib              	0x0824f02e Java_com_sun_media_sound_HAEShutdownHook_createNativeRef + 3608
3   libjsound.jnilib              	0x0824f159 Java_com_sun_media_sound_HAEShutdownHook_createNativeRef + 3907
4   libjsound.jnilib              	0x0824f3b5 Java_com_sun_media_sound_HAEShutdownHook_createNativeRef + 4511
5   libjsound.jnilib              	0x0824fe79 Java_com_sun_media_sound_MidiInDeviceProvider_nGetName + 63
6   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
7   ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
8   ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
9   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
10  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
11  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
12  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
13  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
14  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
15  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
16  ???                           	0x03003fdd 0 + 50347997
17  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
18  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
19  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
20  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
21  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5546 JVM_Lseek + 148374
22  libclient.dylib               	0x018c7fe8 JVM_NewInstanceFromConstructor + 3896
23  libclient.dylib               	0x018c9bde JVM_InvokeMethod + 1342
24  libclient.dylib               	0x018c9892 JVM_InvokeMethod + 498
25  libjava.jnilib                	0x0009916a Java_sun_reflect_NativeMethodAccessorImpl_invoke0 + 38
26  ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
27  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
28  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
29  ???                           	0x030043f3 0 + 50349043
30  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
31  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
32  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
33  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
34  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
35  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
36  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5546 JVM_Lseek + 148374
37  libclient.dylib               	0x018d6051 JVM_FindLoadedClass + 3441
38  libclient.dylib               	0x0190ec02 JVM_Socket + 5170
39  ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher	0x00009c12 JNIEnv_::CallStaticVoidMethod(_jclass*, _jmethodID*, ...) + 44
40  ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher	0x0000947b startJavaApplication + 3627
41  ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher	0x0000864e runJava(LauncherArgsStruct*) + 78
42  ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher	0x000085f8 java_main_stub(void*) + 22
43  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
44  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 4:  Java: Exception Handler Thread
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x93139048 mach_msg_server + 520
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180fe25 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 61045
4   libclient.dylib               	0x0180fdca JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 60954
5   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
6   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
7   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 5:  Java: VM Thread
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180f037 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57479
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0182bbb0 jio_vsnprintf + 29632
4   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e9b7 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 55815
5   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e588 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54744
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018a3f5b JVM_Lseek + 142763
7   libclient.dylib               	0x018a3c8a JVM_Lseek + 142042
8   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
9   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
10  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 6:  Java: Reference Handler
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180ef23 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57203
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180edab JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 56827
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b8c95 JVM_MonitorWait + 5461
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
10  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
11  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
12  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
17  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
18  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
19  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 7:  Java: Finalizer
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180ef23 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57203
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180edab JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 56827
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b8c95 JVM_MonitorWait + 5461
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
10  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
11  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
12  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
17  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
18  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
19  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
20  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 8:  Java: Signal Dispatcher
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd336 semaphore_wait_trap + 10
1   libclient.dylib               	0x018ceb5e JVM_IsPrimitiveClass + 10398
2   libclient.dylib               	0x018ce92e JVM_IsPrimitiveClass + 9838
3   libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
5   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
6   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
7   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 9:  Java: CompilerThread0
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180ef23 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57203
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180edab JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 56827
4   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e928 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 55672
5   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e4a9 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54521
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018cfec2 JVM_IsPrimitiveClass + 15362
7   libclient.dylib               	0x018cfc9b JVM_IsPrimitiveClass + 14811
8   libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
9   libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
10  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
11  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
12  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 10:  Java: Low Memory Detector
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180ef23 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57203
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180edab JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 56827
4   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e928 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 55672
5   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e588 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54744
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018d3e32 JVM_IsPrimitiveClass + 31602
7   libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
8   libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
9   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
10  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
11  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 11:  Java: VM Periodic Task Thread
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180f037 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57479
3   libclient.dylib               	0x018d510d JVM_IsPrimitiveClass + 36429
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018d4d5d JVM_IsPrimitiveClass + 35485
5   libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
6   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
7   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 12:  Java: AWT-Shutdown
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180ef23 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57203
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180edab JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 56827
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b8c95 JVM_MonitorWait + 5461
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
10  ???                           	0x0300428d 0 + 50348685
11  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
12  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
17  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
18  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
19  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
20  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 13:  Java: Java2D Disposer
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180ef23 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57203
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180edab JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 56827
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b8c95 JVM_MonitorWait + 5461
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
10  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
11  ???                           	0x0300428d 0 + 50348685
12  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
17  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
18  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
19  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
20  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
21  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 14:  Java: Image Fetcher 0
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180f037 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57479
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0182bbb0 jio_vsnprintf + 29632
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b88a8 JVM_MonitorWait + 4456
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
10  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
11  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
12  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
17  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
18  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
19  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
20  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 15:  Java: AWT-EventQueue-0
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180ef23 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57203
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0180edab JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 56827
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b8c95 JVM_MonitorWait + 5461
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
10  ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
11  ???                           	0x03003fdd 0 + 50347997
12  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
13  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
14  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
15  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
16  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
17  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
18  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
19  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
20  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
21  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
22  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
23  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
24  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
25  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 16:  Java: TimerQueue
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180f037 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57479
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0182bbb0 jio_vsnprintf + 29632
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b88a8 JVM_MonitorWait + 4456
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x0300428d 0 + 50348685
10  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
11  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
12  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
17  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
18  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
19  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 17:  Java: Timer-0
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180f037 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57479
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0182bbb0 jio_vsnprintf + 29632
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b88a8 JVM_MonitorWait + 4456
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
10  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
11  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
12  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
17  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
18  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
19  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 18:  Java: Image Fetcher 1
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   libclient.dylib               	0x0180f037 JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 57479
3   libclient.dylib               	0x0182bbb0 jio_vsnprintf + 29632
4   libclient.dylib               	0x018b88a8 JVM_MonitorWait + 4456
5   libclient.dylib               	0x018b7bfe JVM_MonitorWait + 1214
6   libclient.dylib               	0x018b787a JVM_MonitorWait + 314
7   ???                           	0x0300b839 0 + 50378809
8   ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
9   ???                           	0x03003f17 0 + 50347799
10  ???                           	0x03003db1 0 + 50347441
11  ???                           	0x030012d3 0 + 50336467
12  libclient.dylib               	0x018a57d0 JVM_Lseek + 149024
13  libclient.dylib               	0x018a5576 JVM_Lseek + 148422
14  libclient.dylib               	0x018b711b JVM_InternString + 2123
15  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6f8a JVM_InternString + 1722
16  libclient.dylib               	0x018b6d74 JVM_InternString + 1188
17  libclient.dylib               	0x018b680f JVM_StartThread + 2175
18  libclient.dylib               	0x0180e33b JNI_CreateJavaVM_Impl + 54155
19  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
20  libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 19:
0   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cd2fa mach_msg_trap + 10
1   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930cda67 mach_msg + 68
2   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 	0x0826cf31 XServerMachPort::ReceiveMessage(int&, void*, int&) + 155
3   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 	0x0828b8fe MIDIProcess::RunMIDIInThread() + 150
4   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 	0x0826e149 XThread::RunHelper(void*) + 17
5   com.apple.audio.midi.CoreMIDI 	0x0826db16 CAPThread::Entry(CAPThread*) + 96
6   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930faa19 _pthread_start + 345
7   libSystem.B.dylib             	0x930fa89e thread_start + 34

Thread 3 crashed with X86 Thread State (32-bit):
  eax: 0xa06088cc  ebx: 0x9505400d  ecx: 0x00000000  edx: 0x00000007
  edi: 0x00000000  esi: 0x00000000  ebp: 0xb0903d38  esp: 0xb0903d20
   ss: 0x0000001f  efl: 0x00010283  eip: 0x95054080   cs: 0x00000017
   ds: 0x0000001f   es: 0x0000001f   fs: 0x0000001f   gs: 0x00000037
  cr2: 0x00000000

Binary Images:
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0x95044000 - 0x95044ff7  com.apple.CoreServices 44 (44) <AC35D112-5FB9-9C8C-6189-5F5945072375> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/CoreServices
0x95045000 - 0x951beffb  com.apple.CoreFoundation 6.6.1 (550.19) <1E97FB1E-9E42-B8EB-E463-5C75315FDA31> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreFoundation.framework/Versions/A/CoreFoundation
0x951bf000 - 0x951d4fff  com.apple.ImageCapture 6.0 (6.0) <3F31833A-38A9-444E-02B7-17619CA6F2A0> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageCapture.framework/Versions/A/ImageCapture
0x95295000 - 0x956abff7  libBLAS.dylib 219.0.0 (compatibility 1.0.0) <C4FB303A-DB4D-F9E8-181C-129585E59603> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/libBLAS.dylib
0x956ac000 - 0x956acff7  com.apple.Cocoa 6.6 (???) <EA27B428-5904-B00B-397A-185588698BCC> /System/Library/Frameworks/Cocoa.framework/Versions/A/Cocoa
0x959fd000 - 0x95aa5ffb  com.apple.QD 3.35 (???) <B80B64BC-958B-DA9E-50F9-D7E8333CC5A2> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/QD.framework/Versions/A/QD
0x95aa6000 - 0x95b5cfff  libFontParser.dylib ??? (???) <5935E105-1E45-886C-6420-C1CCA886C375> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libFontParser.dylib
0x95b9e000 - 0x95be4ff7  libauto.dylib ??? (???) <85670A64-3B67-8162-D441-D8E0BE15CA94> /usr/lib/libauto.dylib
0x95c18000 - 0x95c23ff7  libCSync.A.dylib 543.33.0 (compatibility 64.0.0) <F914F427-98EA-98BC-923D-47274A90D441> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libCSync.A.dylib
0x95c2c000 - 0x9650bff7  com.apple.AppKit 6.6.5 (1038.29) <E76A05A6-27C6-DA02-0961-5C8EEDC5F0A7> /System/Library/Frameworks/AppKit.framework/Versions/C/AppKit
0x96516000 - 0x96519fe7  libmathCommon.A.dylib 315.0.0 (compatibility 1.0.0) <1622A54F-1A98-2CBE-B6A4-2122981A500E> /usr/lib/system/libmathCommon.A.dylib
0x9651a000 - 0x9653eff7  libJPEG.dylib ??? (???) <EDA86712-F49C-760C-BE55-9B899A4A5D1B> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ImageIO.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libJPEG.dylib
0x9653f000 - 0x96863fef  com.apple.HIToolbox 1.6.2 (???) <F5F99E78-5377-DD54-6138-9FC84467F938> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIToolbox.framework/Versions/A/HIToolbox
0x977b6000 - 0x97a26ffb  com.apple.Foundation 6.6.2 (751.21) <DA7A173A-4435-ECD6-F4AF-977D722FD2F7> /System/Library/Frameworks/Foundation.framework/Versions/C/Foundation
0x97a2e000 - 0x97d95ff7  com.apple.QuartzCore 1.6.1 (227.18) <8A65F233-4C77-BA7C-5DDA-2423F5C1B7A1> /System/Library/Frameworks/QuartzCore.framework/Versions/A/QuartzCore
0x97d96000 - 0x97ea2ff7  libGLProgrammability.dylib ??? (???) <CA0A975B-2BEE-44E7-CFA6-8105CFE6FE00> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLProgrammability.dylib
0x97ea3000 - 0x97eadfe7  com.apple.audio.SoundManager 3.9.3 (3.9.3) <5F494955-7290-2D91-DA94-44B590191771> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CarbonSound.framework/Versions/A/CarbonSound
0x9870e000 - 0x9870eff7  com.apple.Accelerate 1.6 (Accelerate 1.6) <BC501C9F-7C20-961A-B135-0A457667D03C> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Accelerate
0x9870f000 - 0x987ecff7  com.apple.vImage 4.0 (4.0) <64597E4B-F144-DBB3-F428-0EC3D9A1219E> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vImage.framework/Versions/A/vImage
0x987ed000 - 0x9889bff3  com.apple.ink.framework 1.3.3 (107) <57B54F6F-CE35-D546-C7EC-DBC5FDC79938> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Ink.framework/Versions/A/Ink
0x989d1000 - 0x98ac3ff7  libcrypto.0.9.8.dylib 0.9.8 (compatibility 0.9.8) <7482933B-4AF6-ED55-AD72-4FBD1E134958> /usr/lib/libcrypto.0.9.8.dylib
0x98ac4000 - 0x98ac6ff7  com.apple.securityhi 4.0 (36638) <962C66FB-5BE9-634E-0810-036CB340C059> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/SecurityHI.framework/Versions/A/SecurityHI
0x98ac7000 - 0x98ac7ff7  liblangid.dylib ??? (???) <B99607FC-5646-32C8-2C16-AFB5EA9097C2> /usr/lib/liblangid.dylib
0x98ac8000 - 0x98b19ff7  com.apple.HIServices 1.8.0 (???) <10C85B88-C6AF-91DB-2546-34661BA35AC5> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/HIServices.framework/Versions/A/HIServices
0x98c0f000 - 0x98c1aff7  libGL.dylib ??? (???) <EAD85409-9036-831B-C378-E50780305DA6> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGL.dylib
0x98ca0000 - 0x98ce3ff7  com.apple.NavigationServices 3.5.4 (182) <753B8906-06C0-3AE0-3D6A-8FF5AC18ED12> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/NavigationServices.framework/Versions/A/NavigationServices
0x98d1e000 - 0x98d1fff7  com.apple.audio.units.AudioUnit 1.6.3 (1.6.3) <959DFFAE-A06B-7FF6-B713-B2076893EBBD> /System/Library/Frameworks/AudioUnit.framework/Versions/A/AudioUnit
0x98f51000 - 0x98fe3fe3  com.apple.print.framework.PrintCore 6.2 (312.5) <7729B4D7-D661-D669-FA7E-510F93F685A6> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/PrintCore.framework/Versions/A/PrintCore
0x98fe4000 - 0x98fe4ff7  com.apple.Accelerate.vecLib 3.6 (vecLib 3.6) <1DEC639C-173D-F808-DE0D-4070CC6F5BC7> /System/Library/Frameworks/Accelerate.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/vecLib.framework/Versions/A/vecLib
0x98fe5000 - 0x99046fe7  com.apple.CoreText 3.1.0 (???) <1372DABE-F183-DD03-03C2-64B2464A4FD5> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreText.framework/Versions/A/CoreText
0x99495000 - 0x994a2ff7  com.apple.NetFS 3.2.1 (3.2.1) <5E61A00B-FA16-9D99-A064-47BDC5BC9A2B> /System/Library/Frameworks/NetFS.framework/Versions/A/NetFS
0x994a3000 - 0x994e7fe7  com.apple.Metadata 10.6.3 (507.8) <53BB360A-1813-170D-827F-C1863EF15537> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Metadata.framework/Versions/A/Metadata
0x994ea000 - 0x994f1ff3  com.apple.print.framework.Print 6.1 (237.1) <97AB70B6-C653-212F-CFD3-E3816D0F5C22> /System/Library/Frameworks/Carbon.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/Print.framework/Versions/A/Print
0x994f2000 - 0x99533ff7  libRIP.A.dylib 543.33.0 (compatibility 64.0.0) <C6E50C7E-EBEE-32AF-FF07-8E325E21A838> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/CoreGraphics.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libRIP.A.dylib
0x99534000 - 0x99569ff7  libcups.2.dylib 2.8.0 (compatibility 2.0.0) <458E819A-4E3F-333E-28CE-671281B318D3> /usr/lib/libcups.2.dylib
0x9956a000 - 0x9959bff3  libTrueTypeScaler.dylib ??? (???) <F6A32C01-CD82-54F6-218E-0406D40D1D9A> /System/Library/Frameworks/ApplicationServices.framework/Versions/A/Frameworks/ATS.framework/Versions/A/Resources/libTrueTypeScaler.dylib
0x9959c000 - 0x995baff7  com.apple.CoreVideo 1.6.1 (45.4) <E0DF044D-BF31-42CE-B690-FD1FCE07E64A> /System/Library/Frameworks/CoreVideo.framework/Versions/A/CoreVideo
0x995be000 - 0x99601ff7  libGLU.dylib ??? (???) <CE02968E-930D-E63B-7B21-B87205F8B19A> /System/Library/Frameworks/OpenGL.framework/Versions/A/Libraries/libGLU.dylib
0x99650000 - 0x9968dff7  com.apple.SystemConfiguration 1.10.2 (1.10.2) <830FED9E-3E24-004C-35D5-2C1273F79734> /System/Library/Frameworks/SystemConfiguration.framework/Versions/A/SystemConfiguration
0xffff0000 - 0xffff1fff  libSystem.B.dylib ??? (???) <06A5336A-A6F6-4E62-F55F-4909A64631C2> /usr/lib/libSystem.B.dylib

Model: Macmini2,1, BootROM MM21.009A.B00, 2 processors, Intel Core 2 Duo, 1.83 GHz, 1 GB, SMC 1.19f0
Graphics: Intel GMA 950, GMA 950, Built-In, spdisplays_integrated_vram
Memory Module: global_name
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x168C, 0x86), Atheros 5424: 2.0.19.10
Bluetooth: Version 2.3.1f4, 2 service, 19 devices, 1 incoming serial ports
Network Service: Ethernet, Ethernet, en0
Serial ATA Device: Hitachi HTS541680J9SA00, 74,53 GB
Parallel ATA Device: MATSHITACD-RW  CW-8124
USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.), 0x8205, 0x7d100000
USB Device: IR Receiver, 0x05ac  (Apple Inc.), 0x8240, 0x7d200000
FireWire Device: Ensemble, Apogee Electronics, Up to 400 Mb/sec


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



shal said:


> Error during launching the application.
> 
> I am on Linux (Ubuntu Lucid) and use java 1.6.0_20.
> 
> The GUI start to open but freeze during launching.
> 
> This error is report:
> $ java -jar RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar
> 2 mai 2010 10:28:30 roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
> INFO: Room EQ Wizard started
> 2 mai 2010 10:28:30 roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
> GRAVE: Error during startup java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/jdesktop/jxlayer/plaf/LayerUI
> 
> The jxlayer.jar is present in the current directory (with RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar).


Sorry about that, should be fixed now - please try downloading the jar zip file again.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



antani said:


> No log is available, however this is the error message


From that it looks like the crash is in Sun's Midi code somewhere. You should report that to Apple, as the code is in the JRE. Midi did not work on the Mac previously, not sure if that has changed - there is a 3rd party alternative Midi implementation from www.mandolane.co.uk that seemed to work.


----------



## shal

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



JohnM said:


> Sorry about that, should be fixed now - please try downloading the jar zip file again.



hi,

thank you for the fix...now it's crash a litlle more far ...

$ java -jar RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar
2 mai 2010 12:54:55 roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
INFO: Room EQ Wizard started
2 mai 2010 12:54:57 roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
GRAVE: Error during startup java.lang.StackOverflowError

always during the GUI initialization (on the windows it's indicated; 'Generating tool bar')


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

That's probably related to this issue, try using 

java -Dswing.systemlaf=javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFeel -jar <rew path>/RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar


----------



## shal

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



JohnM said:


> That's probably related to this issue, try using
> 
> java -Dswing.systemlaf=javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFeel -jar <rew path>/RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar


You are rigth.

it seems to be OK. i have not realy try (sound card is busy) but i have navigate in different menu and I has view no problem.

Thank!


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

That's good. I have updated the zipped jar files for Linux to use the cross platform look and feel by default so that problem should not occur any more. Anyone wanting to override that use -Dswing.crossplatformlaf=[...] where [...] is the LaF you want to force.


----------



## MACCA350

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Seems to work fine under Windows 7

John, is it possible to calculate and include graphs for THD vs Frequency similar to those in WinMLS?

cheers


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



MACCA350 said:


> is it possible to calculate and include graphs for THD vs Frequency similar to those in WinMLS?


That's on the dev list to do, can't put a date on it though.


----------



## MACCA350

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



JohnM said:


> That's on the dev list to do, can't put a date on it though.


Excellent, looking forward to it :bigsmile:

It's been great watching REW grow over the years, all your hard work is appreciated by many around the world. Good on you for continuing with improvements and new features :T

cheers


----------



## laser188139

I like the new warning messages that prompt to make sure data is saved before exiting REW. But there is something erratic about the determination of whether the data is dirty. 

Yesterday evening I tried taking four new measurements, and I saved all of them to disk just in case my wife shut down the application. Today, when I tried to exit, it warns that "measured data has not been saved for" the third and fourth measures. I wish I could point to what I might have done to the third and fourth that I did not to the first two that might explain the difference. 

Something similar happened yesterday. After opening about nine pre-existing measures, when I went to close them one at a time, it closed the first two without any warning box, but gave me a warning box on the third and subsequent measures. I shrugged it off at the time, and my memory of what I might have done is even more vague. 

I wish I could be more specific,
Bill


----------



## laser188139

I was changing the signal level of the sweeps yesterday to collect some data on the effect of Audyssey DynEQ. I seem to have come across a minor bug in the Settings -> Soundcard dialog; it is probably not new with v5. 

1. Start up a new instance of REW. In the Settings -> Soundcard dialog, notice the current sweep level (-12, or the value at the end of the last REW session), and run Check levels. Note that the output is the same as the Sweep Level specified in the Soundcard dialog. 
2. Make a measurement, changing the Level from -12dB to -24dB. Verify that the output level is the newly specified value. 
3. Bring up the Settings -> Soundcard dialog again. Note that the initial value in the Sweep Level thumbwheel selector is the initial -12dB. Without touching this, begin the Check Levels process and see that the output level is the -24dB chosen when the Measurement was taken. 
4. Now touch the thumbwheel up or down. Begin the Check Levels process again, and the output level is now the level just set on the thumbwheel. 

My guess is that the thumbwheel is not picking up the current setting and displaying it as the Sweep Level. If that's not the intent, then it needs to push the visible value back in as the new current value, even when the control is not touched. It is bizarre to see the sweep value displayed at -12, then to initiate Check Levels and have that be performed at some other level. 

Bill


----------



## bostjanm

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Hi,

I tried the updated linux version on Ubuntu Karmic Koala with java version "1.5.0"
gij (GNU libgcj) version 4.4.1 and got the following error

Exception during startup Message:java.util.NoSuchElementException: Hashtable EnumeratorLevel:SEVEREStack Trace:Hashtable Enumeratorjava.util.Hashtable$EntryEnumerator.nextElement(libgcj.so.10) java.util.Hashtable$KeyEnumerator.nextElement(libgcj.so.10) javax.swing.UIManager$MultiplexUIDefaults$MultiplexEnumeration.nextElement(libgcj.so.10) roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.D(Unknown Source) roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.B(Unknown Source) roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.main(Unknown Source)

I invoked the jar by calling: java -Dswing.systemlaf=javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFeel -jar RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar

Regards,

Bostjan


----------



## bostjanm

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



bostjanm said:


> Hi,
> 
> I tried the updated linux version on Ubuntu Karmic Koala with java version "1.5.0"
> gij (GNU libgcj) version 4.4.1 and got the following error
> 
> Exception during startup Message:java.util.NoSuchElementException: Hashtable EnumeratorLevel:SEVEREStack Trace:Hashtable Enumeratorjava.util.Hashtable$EntryEnumerator.nextElement(libgcj.so.10) java.util.Hashtable$KeyEnumerator.nextElement(libgcj.so.10) javax.swing.UIManager$MultiplexUIDefaults$MultiplexEnumeration.nextElement(libgcj.so.10) roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.D(Unknown Source) roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.B(Unknown Source) roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.main(Unknown Source)
> 
> I invoked the jar by calling: java -Dswing.systemlaf=javax.swing.plaf.metal.MetalLookAndFeel -jar RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Bostjan


Disregard the post. Found out that using suns java 1.6.x solves the problem

Regards,

Bostjan


----------



## Victor

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

works fine, here on XP!

Thank you John, for such a wonderfull tool. It makes life much easier when dealing with acoustics.

Would it be posible, on the Impulse plot, to include the "distance" (in cm) besides the dB and ms?

Victor


----------



## laser188139

The enhancement to the target settings to let the user specify the LF slope and cutoff is neat. That helps me explain what I see measuring my receivers sub preout. 

With the previous version, I was recently experimenting with my sub to measure how high its frequency response goes. To make this easier to see, I set the receiver's crossover to its highest possible value, to try to separate its effect from where the natural drop off in the sub began. When I looked at this in REW, I discovered that the receiver's crossover was much higher than the highest possible value I could set for the target curve. 

Currently REW supports a target curve cutoff of 150Hz. Beyond this, Denon allows values of 200Hz and 250Hz, Onkyo allows 200Hz. This would be just a nice-to-have; one can generate a visual version of the same curve by measuring the receiver's sub lineout directly with all equalization disabled. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## laser188139

The new feature that shows predicted changes in the waterfall chart from filters should be really useful. 

When I first looked at the EQ window and saw this, I noticed that waterfall gridlines extended past the end of the scale, over the centerline and on top of the controls. You can see this if the EQ windows looks normal, spread wide, and you expand the Target Settings and Filter Tasks sections in the controls. Now shrink the EQ window horizontally. At some point, the waterfall gridlines stop shrinking and overlap options in the Filter Tasks. Fortunately, one can re-obtain access to the Filter Tasks be compressing and then expanding the section, the Filter Tasks options then overlay the waterfall gridlines. 

This may be related to the known OSX issue you mentioned in your summary, although in my case I am running the Windows version on XP.

Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I like the new warning messages that prompt to make sure data is saved before exiting REW. But there is something erratic about the determination of whether the data is dirty.


The following actions mark a measurement as changed and needing to be saved:
- Generating waterfalls, spectral decays or spectrograms [I'll remove this as the data is not saved in the measurement]
- Applying or changing filters
- Changing the IR windows or the IR zero position or IR scaling or converting to minimum phase
- Loading, changing or clearing cal files
- Plotting group delay if the measurement did not have phase data
- Calculating phase if the measurement did not have phase data
- Plotting RT60 data if it had not previously been generated


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I was changing the signal level of the sweeps yesterday to collect some data on the effect of Audyssey DynEQ. I seem to have come across a minor bug in the Settings -> Soundcard dialog; it is probably not new with v5.


Fixed for the next update, thanks.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> ...I noticed that waterfall gridlines extended past the end of the scale, over the centerline and on top of the controls.


The width required for the waterfall is governed by the controls panel, so it will clip as the window width gets reduced below the width it needs. I'll stop it drawing outside the bounds of the graph though.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



Victor said:


> Would it be posible, on the Impulse plot, to include the "distance" (in cm) besides the dB and ms?


It's on the list, but in the meantime if you press the Ctrl key and then the mouse right button you can drag the mouse to show relative measurements, which include distance in ft and m.


----------



## Victor

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

this is perfect! :T
thanx for the tip.

Is there a reason why "No Smoothing" can't be selected?


----------



## ianfromnotts

Had a little play with this today and I think it will take me some time to get my head round it all but have a feeling that when its fully sorted it will be a big step up on V4. I couldnt get the filters to down load correctly via the midi link to my 2496. Firstly teh front panel suggested several filters were not being download and follow on sweeps suggested that those that were may not have been received correctly or corrupted; the sweeps with filters were worse than no filters loaded. 

I tried reloading V5 powering the FBD down etc but improvements were minimal - went back to v4 and all was fine again.


----------



## JohnM

ianfromnotts said:


> I couldnt get the filters to down load correctly via the midi link to my 2496.


Were the filters all PEQ type or did you have some MODAL filters defined? Just noticed Modal filters (PEQ by another name) are not being sent, I'll fix that in the next build. If the filters were all PEQ could you take a look at the FBQ2496 settings to see what was received versus what was expected and let me know what differences you see?


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> The following actions mark a measurement as changed and needing to be saved: ...


Thanks for the list of what should force a measurement to be saved. I am seeing something weird beyond that. I took 18 new measurements, and in the middle of these I opened a v5 data file from yesterday. Having finished that set of experiments, I went through the set and saved each one individually to a file. Took one more measurement and saved it to a file. 

I now went through the set again, starting at #1, closing each measurement. After closing the first two measurements with no warning, starting at the third (now itself #1), I received the warning on each that all measurement data would be lost when I closed it. Having just saved each of these to a file, and, as far as I know, not provoking any recalculations, I find this difference between the first two and the subsequent eighteen a puzzle. 

Obviously not very important, and it is better to err on the side of thinking the data is dirty, if that is the only effect. 

Bill


----------



## laser188139

In manipulating the multiple measurement windows on the left side of the screen, generally when one clicks on a measurement, it receives the focus and the visual graph is replaced with the one corresponding to that measurement. I.e., if I am currently viewing the SPL graph for measurement #7 and I click anywhere on measurement #3, it expands and the SPL graph now shows the curve for #3. 

An exception seems to occur for the Notes panel on the highest numbered measurement. If I click in the notes panel for the highest numbered measurement, e.g., #7, I can change its text, while the SPL graph is still showing the graph for #3. Anywhere else in the tab for measure #7, it receives the focus, just not its notes box. Is this a feature, to let you type in the notes panel for the highest numbered one while still reading the information about the lower numbered measure that still has the focus? Or is this an oversight, that #7 did not receive the focus, as it is a little confusing to be typing in the notes for measure #7 while seeing the graph for measure #3. 

Bill


----------



## GGA

The phase graphs are different for full range measurement and 15-200Hz. 

15-200Hz








Full Range


----------



## Drudge

I'm still amazed at how great this software is and the fact that it is all free!

Thanks for this awesome tool John.:T:clap:


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> Thanks for the list of what should force a measurement to be saved. I am seeing something weird beyond that.


I've tracked that down and fixed it for the next build, thanks.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> In manipulating the multiple measurement windows on the left side of the screen, generally when one clicks on a measurement, it receives the focus and the visual graph is replaced with the one corresponding to that measurement. I.e., if I am currently viewing the SPL graph for measurement #7 and I click anywhere on measurement #3, it expands and the SPL graph now shows the curve for #3.
> 
> An exception seems to occur for the Notes panel on the highest numbered measurement. If I click in the notes panel for the highest numbered measurement, e.g., #7, I can change its text, while the SPL graph is still showing the graph for #3. Anywhere else in the tab for measure #7, it receives the focus, just not its notes box. Is this a feature, to let you type in the notes panel for the highest numbered one while still reading the information about the lower numbered measure that still has the focus? Or is this an oversight, that #7 did not receive the focus, as it is a little confusing to be typing in the notes for measure #7 while seeing the graph for measure #3.


That behaviour is by design (one of Microsoft's better quotes ). It allows the buttons or other controls on panels to be used even when they are not selected - the delete button is one of the few that one might want to use, but allowing any of them means allowing all of them for consistency.


----------



## JohnM

GGA said:


> The phase graphs are different for full range measurement and 15-200Hz.


Don't forget that phase is directly affected by time delays, you will probably find the impulse zero time is not the same for the two measurements (e.g. if the impulse zero is placed at the IR peak, the peak is broader (and hence occurs later) for a limited bandwidth measurement. One way to help with this problem is to enable the option to use a left channel loopback connection as a timing reference, which eliminates any delay variability in the soundcard and Java's access to the card. That still leaves the time delay from the sound travelling from speaker to mic and any delays in the audio system, those can be removed via the IR zero time adjustment controls or by using the "Estimate IR Delay" control.


----------



## JimP

JohnM said:


> Don't forget that phase is directly affected by time delays, you will probably find the impulse zero time is not the same for the two measurements (e.g. if the impulse zero is placed at the IR peak, the peak is broader (and hence occurs later) for a limited bandwidth measurement. One way to help with this problem is to enable the option to use a left channel loopback connection as a timing reference, which eliminates any delay variability in the soundcard and Java's access to the card. That still leaves the time delay from the sound travelling from speaker to mic and any delays in the audio system, those can be removed via the IR zero time adjustment controls or by using the "Estimate IR Delay" control.


Have you considered producing a DVD instructing people on what to measure and how to do it? The above is interesting but doesn't mean a whole lot to those of us who don't know what you're talking about.


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## JohnM

JimP said:


> Have you considered producing a DVD instructing people on what to measure and how to do it? The above is interesting but doesn't mean a whole lot to those of us who don't know what you're talking about.


We try and cover that through the forums, the topic is too broad to be dealt with by one DVD - there are many different types of user of a package like REW and amongst them widely varying levels of knowledge, so the forums Q&A style is better targeted. That's not to say that some "getting started" posts on various topics wouldn't be helpful, of course.


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## laser188139

John, something has changed in the handling of the recently used colors in the tool to choose the color for a measure. In v4.11, the Recent: list included all the colors used this session, since REW was started, I think. In the v5 beta, it appears to display only the last used color. I can pick one color. When for a different measure I pick a second color, I see the first under the Recent: title. But when I select a third measure and try to pick a color, I see only the second color I used, the first is no longer in the Recent: list.

Looking at it more carefully, it appears in the new version that the color swatches are local to the context of this measure. In other words, it shows me the recent choices of colors for this measure. Under 4.11, the set was global across all measures. Was this an intentional change? Maybe this is another Microsoft CUA thing: as the control is on the measurement tab, by definition it is local. When one wants to use the same color as one chose for another line, one uses the new Grab from Screen magnifying glass. 

Thanks,
Bill


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## Sunny44

John,



My “Open Measurements” stopped working.

When I select it nothing happens (no “chose the file to open” dialog)

This was working fine. Not sure what I did to cause it or whats happening.

Windows XP


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## laser188139

Kudos on the group delay graph and the use of the left channel as an absolute time reference for the impulse graph. I expect this is one of most eagerly anticipated new features. 

With a little work I was able to follow the guidance in the Syn-Aud-Con Newsletter article on Subwoofer Alignment cited by Mike Bentz. As always, real world measurements are a lot messier than pretty pictures in articles. Still, using the left channel loopback as a time reference, I was able to determine the initial time of one of my front speakers alone, and to determine the leading edge of the impulse from my subwoofer with the crossover set to 250Hz. This gave me the time difference to use for aligning the sub. Calculating this was a little tricky in my case as my fronts are large Klipsch floorstanding speakers and there is a 2' difference between the tweeter driver and the woofer/mid-range drivers. Afterward, the Group Delay graph of the front and sub together seems to confirm that the sub and the front woofer are synchronized. 

I tried using the Estimate IR Delay function to calculate the time distance to each speaker. It seems to prefer the time to the first large peak in the impulse response. In the case of the sub with its limited bandwidth, this turned out to be noticeably later than the leading edge of the impulse. 

When analyzing dips in the overall response curve post-alignment, I found a use for the Phase information now available on the SPL & Phase graph. Looking at the curves of the front speaker and the sub alone, I was able to confirm that at the frequency in question, their phases differed by more than 90°. 

These are really cool features. Thanks John,
Bill


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, something has changed in the handling of the recently used colors in the tool to choose the color for a measure.


Thanks Bill, I've fixed that for the next build.


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## JohnM

Sunny44 said:


> My “Open Measurements” stopped working. When I select it nothing happens (no “chose the file to open” dialog) This was working fine. Not sure what I did to cause it or whats happening. Windows XP


Russ, please check for any error messages in the log files in the REW directory of your home directory (path is shown in the Help -> About dialog). You could also try using regedit to delete the "lastmdatfile" key in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\JavaSoft\Prefs\room eq wizard, but make a note of what directory and file it was pointing to to help track down the problem.


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## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



Victor said:


> Is there a reason why "No Smoothing" can't be selected?


The default behaviour for REW V5 is to convert the measurements to log spaced at 96PPO if the resulting file would be smaller than leaving the data linearly spaced (usually the case if the end frequency is above a few hundred Hz or so). To allow 96PPO sampling the data has to be smoothed to prevent aliasing, hence you cannot go back to a completely unsmoothed measurement in that case. There is an option in the Analysis settings to control whether the 96PPO log spaced conversion is used, it would usually be worth allowing it.


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## JohnM

Beta download files have been updated, see post #1 for details.


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## JohnM

Sunny44 said:


> My “Open Measurements” stopped working. When I select it nothing happens (no “chose the file to open” dialog).


This happened if the mdat file last saved had more than 9 measurements, it has been fixed in the latest beta download files.


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## laser188139

I am in the process of verifying fixes in the new build, so I am playing again with the color palette. When I have multiple measures already open looking at a waterfall graph, I open a new measure, which receives some default color, say green. I change its color with the color palette to red, and I then press generate to look at the waterfall. The waterfall is generated with the initial default color of green, not the red that I just chose with the palette. 

After generating the waterfall, if I choose the red color again with the palette, the color in the waterfall stays green. Which makes sense as the system thinks the color is current, even though it isn't in the waterfall, so no updates are needed. 

This seems to happen independent of whether the initial chart is the waterfall chart. If the current view is SPL & Phase, I open a new measure, change its color, switch to waterfall and generate the waterfall, the waterfall color is the default color, not the color I selected.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I open a new measure, change its color, switch to waterfall and generate the waterfall, the waterfall color is the default color, not the color I selected.


Thanks for spotting that Bill, I've fixed it for the next build. the same issue affected the colour of the trace legend in the spectrogram plot.


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## laser188139

In using the Overlay ETC window to compare speaker responses, I was trying to use the controls on the Impulse view to adjust the leading edge of one to align with the other. Generally, when using the t=0 offset (ms) field to move the measure's impulse, the effect is seen in the measure's view and immediately in the Overlay Impulse or ETC view. But I found that, when I applied a small change of 0.010msec in either direction, + or -, the curve in the Overlay ETC view was not refreshed. Per se, this is a small difference, but the view becomes even more off as one can accumulate several small adjustments and the ETC view remains the same. Disabling and re-enabling the measure in the Overlay ETC view has no effect, the display is still off, i.e., does not reflect the changes made in the measure itself. Switching the Overlay window from ETC to Impulse and back does not cause the new curve to be displayed. Even closing the Overlay window and re-opening it has no effect. 

This appears to be unique to the ETC view in the Overlay window. The Impulse view in the Overlay window always appears to see even very small time adjustments immediately.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> when using the t=0 offset (ms) field to move the measure's impulse, the effect is seen in the measure's view and immediately in the Overlay Impulse or ETC view. But I found that, when I applied a small change of 0.010msec in either direction, + or -, the curve in the Overlay ETC view was not refreshed.


The ETC was not being recalculated, I've fixed that for the next build.

P.S. Also applied to converting IR to min phase or shifting the IR after estimating IR delay.


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## JimP

So we can keep up with the latest builts, is there a set frequency of when the latest version will be available?


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## JohnM

JimP said:


> So we can keep up with the latest builts, is there a set frequency of when the latest version will be available?


Afraid not. If a problem is found that causes REW to crash (like the mdat file dialog problem) I'll look to get a fixed build out as soon as I can, otherwise I'll wait until there are sufficient items to make a new build worthwhile, but that's a subjective judgement.


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## laser188139

Last night I tried taking measurements with the v5beta on my laptop, which I did only occasionally with v4.11. I used the laptop infrequently with v4.11, because of questions I had about its measurements compared to the desktop, and more importantly because it was just so awkward to try to compare measurement files taken from two different computers. 

After taking several measurements, when I saw a new message, Audio device error: "Timed out waiting for soundcard buffer to empty." The frequency response curve appeared intact, but I ran it again and the message did not appear. A couple of measurements later, I was up to the eleventh this time, it happened again, but went away when I repeated it. A few measurements later, when I switched to the right channel, it got to the point that it happened three times in a row, so I just kept the last measurement and went on. Taking a measurement, this time on battery with the power cord disconnected, it complained that the impulse time was not where it should be, that the left channel loopback was too low, and at the end that it timed out waiting for the soundcard buffer to empty. The next measurement I tried, the measurement process never ended; it got to the point where the screen said Calculating FFT, the VU meters were still showing background sound. I tried pressing Cancel at which point it said it timed out waiting for the soundcard to empty. After okaying that message, the measurement dialog was still there. When I pressed cancel again, the measurement box disappeared but the main window did not receive focus, it stayed transparent. I could not select any of the measurements. Fortunately, I was able to reach the Save buttons and these did work, so I could save all my measurements up to the last that failed, and close the app with the X button. 

The environment was a Dell Inspiron laptop running Windows Vista, using the built-in SigmaTel soundcard that I have successfully used with v4.11. Left channel loopback was enabled for timing. This was probably the same physical REW instance I had been running earlier in the day when verifying fixes in the new build; I just closed all the open measures and then started taking new ones. The sweeps were 1M long, although to save time I was doing only single sweeps, not multiple sweeps and averaging. 

Probably unrelated, the few times I tried disconnecting the power cord to run on battery, just to see if this changed the measurement process by eliminating electrical noise from the audio signal, it almost always complained the left channel level was too low, but when I okayed this message the resulting file seemed to be correct, with the impulse at the correct time relative to the other measures. 

Also perhaps unrelated, but I noticed during the session that I was no longer able to use the color palette to change the colors of the SPL & Phase curves. I will try to reproduce this separately, but I mention this as it all feels a little like a memory leak and the java engine running out of available memory. At the time, Vista was showing the private memory used by java.exe as a little over 480M. 

I wish this session weren't such a saga, and that I could point more specifically to the problem. But that's how it is sometimes. 

Bill

P.S. I tracked down the log file from last night, showing some of the errors including a Java heap space error at the end.


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## laser188139

There is something a little weird about the measurement numbering in the beta version. I open a few measurements, say 15. I generate waterfall views for many of these. Now I close the first two. In the list of measurement tabs at the left of the main window, the numbers now stay the same, 3 through 12. Under 4.11, they used to be renumbered, but keeping the numbers is fine. 

Now, though, I go to the waterfall view and select one of them, say 13, and look at its waterfall. I then select to overlay the waterfall with another one, that happens to be itself, #13. Lo and behold, the waterfall is showing two images, not one. I eventually notice at the bottom of the waterfall view there are two different datetime stamps, one for 21:56 and the other for 22:29. Apparently the main window tabs were not renumbered, and are carrying their initial number as an identifier. But the waterfall Overlay pulldown assumes the numbers go with the slots. 

Personally I suspect the main tabs are showing the wrong numbers and should have been renumbered when the first measures were deleted. As it stands right now, having opened 17 measures, closed four and opened some more, I have two measures numbered 14, two 15 and two 16.

P.S. I find that the number in the measure tab in the main window updates when I change the color of that measure in the color palette. So this appears to be an issue with the thumbnail image in the measure tab not being updated when the measurement is renumbered.


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## laser188139

The problem I mentioned above with the color palette is indeed its own issue. After opening several measures, playing with them, changing the colors, looking at the waterfalls, closing them all. Doing the same for some other measures. Doing it again, including some measures taken with v4.11 where I had to select a different soundcard calibration file to match them. I have finally reached the point where I go into the color palette to change the color of the current SPL curve, the palette opens, but choosing a new color has no effect when I click OK. It doesn't matter whether I select a new color, select a color from the recent colors list, or use the Grab from Screen magnifying glass. I don't know if it is related, but there are currently 24 colors in the Recent: colors grid. 

Playing with it some more, there is something really weird. The three new, v5beta, measures, #1-#3, are the ones where I cannot change the color. The new color is not seen in the SPL graph. For the two older, v4.11, measures, #4 and #5, I can still change the color and have it stick. 

Bill

P.S. This happened after I had started a clean session, without ever generating any new measurements, just loading and analyzing old ones. So it is indeed independent of whatever anomaly happened with the laptop soundcard.


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## laser188139

JohnM said:


> The default behaviour for REW V5 is to convert the measurements to log spaced at 96PPO if the resulting file would be smaller than leaving the data linearly spaced (usually the case if the end frequency is above 1kHz or so). ...


When I used my laptop to take measurements, I realized I had to set Use Left as Timing Reference to have data to compare speaker distance alignment. I forgot, though, to disable the Allow 96 PPO Log Spacing option. On the new measurements, I notice that this has a profound effect on the Group Delay display. The information is, perhaps, meaningful at the low end, it still appears at about 20msec up to 1.4kHz, where it abruptly drops and oscillates around zero. 

I don't know if this warrants automatically disabling Allow 96 PPO when Use Left as Timing is enabled, if this is best left as a user beware, or if there ought to be a warning when the GD view is generated that the information is not valid when the 96 PPO option has been used. You probably have a better insight on this than I do. 

By the way, in reviewing the Settings dialog box where it describes the Use Left as Timing Reference, in the last sentence "... REW will either set the IR zero time according to the setting ..." I suggest dropping the word "either". 

Bill


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## GGA

My files usually contain many measurements, so I am happy to see that you can now have up to 20 measurements.

When doing Overlays I am usually comparing two to four measurements at a time out of 20. I like to examine most of the measurement aspects, GD, phase, etc., one after the other. This means labroriously unselecting maybe 16 measurements for each and every aspect. Could the selected files be universeally transferred to all the aspects? If not, could you have a master Unselect or Select All button?

You have very conveniently numbered the measurements at the left but when they display in Overlays or the main window there are no numbers plus they are in a horizontal format compared to the vertical format. With 20 choices now available, could you also show the measurement number in Overlays and main window to simplify choosing the right measurement?

I would also like to see a master button to choose Smoothing for multiple measurements:
1) smooth all measurements to xx octave
2) smooth all 15Hz-20,000Hz measurements to xx octave
3) smooth all 15Hz-200Hz measurements to xx ocatave
Or perhaps a new button in Overlays where all selected measurements are smoothed. It would save a lot of time if you are comparing a lot of measurements and want them all similarly smoothed.

REW is easily the best measurement program I have used. Considering how powerful it is, it is still fairly easy to use. I want to express my multiple thanks not only for the program but for the many improvements you have provided since its introduction.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> After taking several measurements, when I saw a new message, Audio device error: "Timed out waiting for soundcard buffer to empty."


I've seen errors with soundcard access on laptops intermittently (V4 or V5, both have the same audio interface handling), under XP and Vista, though very few. I will be looking at the audio interface handling so might figure something out when I get to that. The subsequent issues you encountered are likely consequences of the measurement not completing properly.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> There is something a little weird about the measurement numbering in the beta version. <snip> this appears to be an issue with the thumbnail image not being in the measure tab not being updated when the measurement is renumbered.


It is, a bug I introduced as a result of putting in some debug while tracking down the unnecessary messages about data having not been saved. It's fixed for the next build.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> The problem I mentioned above with the color palette is indeed its own issue.


I haven't been able to reproduce this. If there are events in the log files that may help, along with info on what windows were open/what you were doing when the colour selection went wrong.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> When I used my laptop to take measurements, I realized I had to set Use Left as Timing Reference to have data to compare speaker distance alignment. I forgot, though, to disable the Allow 96 PPO Log Spacing option. On the new measurements, I notice that this has a profound effect on the Group Delay display. The information is, perhaps, meaningful at the low end, it still appears at about 20msec up to 1.4kHz, where it abruptly drops and oscillates around zero.


This isn't due to the 96 PPO per se, but to the actions needed to smooth the phase trace to allow for 96 PPO. To do that the phase has to be unwrapped, and when the measurement has a significant time delay phase unwrapping gets problematic as at HF the phase is wrapping extremely rapidly. I know how to fix this though, but it may not make the next build.


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## laser188139

When I wrote earlier today, I did not notice any updated logfiles, but I now see one with a last modified timestamp at about the time I noted the recurrence of the problem. I hope it helps. 

When I started the session, I opened up to 20 measures, changed all their colors, went through and changed their colors again, without any problem. So whatever provoked the issue was related to opening older format files, generating waterfall and ETC views, etc. I thought I could not reproduce it, went back to other things, and then it came back. I'll keep an eye out to see if I can pin down a clear cause the next time I see it.


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## JohnM

JohnM said:


> This isn't due to the 96 PPO per se, but to the actions needed to smooth the phase trace to allow for 96 PPO. To do that the phase has to be unwrapped, and when the measurement has a significant time delay phase unwrapping gets problematic as at HF the phase is wrapping extremely rapidly. I know how to fix this though, but it may not make the next build.


I found time to deal with this. Other changes/fixes which will be in the next build:

Changing the colour of a measurement did not change the colour of the EQ panel Predicted traces
Info panel was only updating when measurement selection changed, was not showing changes as they were applied to the current measurement
Made phase unwrapping insensitive to measurement delays
Inhibit log spaced conversion of measurements if IR peak significantly offset from zero


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## JohnM

GGA said:


> My files usually contain many measurements, so I am happy to see that you can now have up to 20 measurements.
> 
> When doing Overlays I am usually comparing two to four measurements at a time out of 20. I like to examine most of the measurement aspects, GD, phase, etc., one after the other. This means labroriously unselecting maybe 16 measurements for each and every aspect. Could the selected files be universeally transferred to all the aspects? If not, could you have a master Unselect or Select All button?
> 
> You have very conveniently numbered the measurements at the left but when they display in Overlays or the main window there are no numbers plus they are in a horizontal format compared to the vertical format. With 20 choices now available, could you also show the measurement number in Overlays and main window to simplify choosing the right measurement?
> 
> I would also like to see a master button to choose Smoothing for multiple measurements:
> 1) smooth all measurements to xx octave
> 2) smooth all 15Hz-20,000Hz measurements to xx octave
> 3) smooth all 15Hz-200Hz measurements to xx ocatave
> Or perhaps a new button in Overlays where all selected measurements are smoothed. It would save a lot of time if you are comparing a lot of measurements and want them all similarly smoothed.


Good suggestions, thanks. I already have a note to consider making the overlay selections common to all the graphs, so this may nudge me over the edge to implement that


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## laser188139

Reading the description in the help on the Settings -> Analysis tab of the Set t=0 at IR Peak option, I thought of my observation above about what I saw when I used the Estimate IR Delay function. 



laser188139 said:


> ... I tried using the Estimate IR Delay function to calculate the time distance to each speaker. It seems to prefer the time to the first large peak in the impulse response. In the case of the sub with its limited bandwidth, this turned out to be noticeably later than the leading edge of the impulse. ...


I'm guessing that the Estimate IR Delay function and the normal Set t=0 at IR Peak option use the same underlying logic. If you could expand these not to be mutually exclusive, perhaps the Estimate IR Delay function could look at the Set t=0 option to determine how to calculate the estimate, and we could have an automated function that gave the time to the leading edge of a sub impulse curve. This would make distance alignment of the sub with one of the main speakers a straightforward process. 

There is, of course, the separate question of how important time/distance alignment of the sub at the receiver is, compared to adjusting the sub distance to give the best overall frequency response curve. 

Just an idea,
Bill


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I'm guessing that the Estimate IR Delay function and the normal Set t=0 at IR Peak option use the same underlying logic.


They operate quite differently. Setting t=0 at the peak is self-explanatory, but the Estimate IR delay function performs a cross-correlation between the measurement IR and a minimum phase version of the IR to see how much the measurement IR would need to be shifted to align with the min phase response. That works reasonably well for full range measurements, but less well for band limited measurements due to the inherent impulse spreading that involves and the effect of the delays in the implicit filtering of a band limited measurement. I have some thoughts on how it might be improved, but the most reliable method for aligning sub and mains is looking at the group delay the sub response settles at well above its nominal operating range, per the synaudcon article.


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## GGA

The Notes field for the measurements shown at the right is great idea, but they do take up a lot of room. Would it be possible to Trim them to the actual contents with a minimum of say 5 spaces? It would help appearances a lot I think.

When you first open REW there is a large white area. I think it would be fun if you some sort of splash screen there, say yourself smoking pipe in front of some horn speakers :clap: If you wanted to get fancy maybe we could each load our own screen?


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## GGA

> I have some thoughts on how it might be improved, but the most reliable method for aligning sub and mains is looking at the group delay the sub response settles at well above its nominal operating range, per the synaudcon article.


I wonder if someone could write a quick guide on how to do this specifially with REW and post it in the main forum? I have been looking for years for the correct way to do this.


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## JohnM

GGA said:


> The Notes field for the measurements shown at the right is great idea, but they do take up a lot of room. Would it be possible to Trim them to the actual contents with a minimum of say 5 spaces? It would help appearances a lot I think.


Possibly. You can also hide the notes area by clicking on the notes icon.

P.S. If you move the mouse over the graph thumbnail and wait a second or two you get a popup that shows you any notes entered for that measurement, so it isn't essential to leave the notes area open.


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## laser188139

I was trying to evaluate the effect of changing the distance setting of the sub in the AVR. Having changed the distance by 1.5', I expected to see about a 45° change in the phase at 90Hz. Instead the SPL & Phase graph shows a difference of 210°. This made me wonder how REW calculates the zero point for its phase calculation, and whether it calculates a different zero point for different measures, even when using the left channel for loopback. 

The helpfile indicates that the Phase information is most useful after converting to minimum phase. The result appears this gives some indication of phase relative to what was expected. Another way of saying this is that, after converting to minimum phase, what one sees is phase relative to itself as an impulse. Perhaps wide differences from zero indicate points where a significant amount of reflected sound changed the phase relative to the expected direct sound. 

This makes me think that there may not be any sense in comparing the absolute phase values between different measures at a particular frequency. I had thought that, perhaps, comparing the phase of the sub alone at a potential crossover frequency and a front speaker alone at the same frequency might confirm whether they reinforce or subtract from each other. Now I'm not so sure.


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## laser188139

laser188139 said:


> ... I'll keep an eye out to see if I can pin down a clear cause the next time I see it.


Again, I've looked at lots of different data today without taking any new measurements, and after a while I try to change the color on the SPL & Phase trace and the color change does not take effect. As there were no previous colors in the Recent colors of the palette, I've not been changing colors earlier, so the problem is not related to the number of color changes. It may be related to using the Remove All button to close all the measurements open at that point; I use this routinely when deciding to look at something else, and perhaps it is not resetting some variable. 

Attached is another log showing IndexOutOfBounds errors processing a SetColor request. The traces seem to have been written at the time the problem reappeared.


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## laser188139

When using the Overlay Group Delay view, I discovered that holding the control button and using the right mouse button, I can measure the time in the vertical direction between two different curves (and the frequency difference in the horizontal dimension, if that interests me). If one is adjusting the group delay by entering values directly into a DSP, the time alone might sufficient. But if one intends to align the sub with the main woofer by adjusting the distance in a receiver, it would be nice to have the equivalent distance readily available. The Impulse/ETC views give the distance equivalence in m and ft whenever it displays a time difference. It might be user-friendly to do the same when displaying time differences on the Group Delay view.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I was trying to evaluate the effect of changing the distance setting of the sub in the AVR. Having changed the distance by 1.5', I expected to see about a 45° change in the phase at 90Hz. Instead the SPL & Phase graph shows a difference of 210°. This made me wonder how REW calculates the zero point for its phase calculation, and whether it calculates a different zero point for different measures, even when using the left channel for loopback.


Using left as timing ref should give consistent measurement results as long as there are no other variable delays in the system and the mic distance from the sub/speaker is not changed. The zero time for phase is the zero time shown on the impulse response plot, 1.5' corresponds to a time delay of 1.333ms (at 20C) and a 1.33ms shift in the impulse zero time alters the phase at 90Hz by 43 degrees, as expected. Worth checking whether the impulse response position is consistent when making a series of measurements with left as timing ref.


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## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> When using the Overlay Group Delay view, I discovered that holding the control button and using the right mouse button, I can measure the time in the vertical direction between two different curves (and the frequency difference in the horizontal dimension, if that interests me). If one is adjusting the group delay by entering values directly into a DSP, the time alone might sufficient. But if one intends to align the sub with the main woofer by adjusting the distance in a receiver, it would be nice to have the equivalent distance readily available. The Impulse/ETC views give the distance equivalence in m and ft whenever it displays a time difference. It might be user-friendly to do the same when displaying time differences on the Group Delay view.


I've amended the code so that time differences in either axis include the equivalent distance and for graphs with a second Y axis the differences are shown for both axes.


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## laser188139

GGA said:


> I wonder if someone could write a quick guide on how to do this specifially with REW and post it in the main forum? I have been looking for years for the correct way to do this.


I just wrote up a description of my experience in this thread, now that I'm fairly confident with my results. Of course, John or others may review this and tell me I was all wet. 

Bill


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## laser188139

laser188139 said:


> ... I'll keep an eye out to see if I can pin down a clear cause the next time I see it.


John, I think I have a simple test case that replicates the color palette problem I've been seeing.

1. Start REW, open two existing measures.
2. Enter the Overlays view, say SPL, and ensure both measures are displayed.
3. Without closing the Overlays view, return to the main window, select Remove All, and respond Yes. 
4. Open another existing measure. 
5. Select the color palette for this measure tab. Try to change the color. The new color appears in the Recent: list, but the color of the measure does not change.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, I think I have a simple test case that replicates the color palette problem I've been seeing.


Perfect Bill, thanks, I've fixed that.


----------



## laser188139

In the Overlays --> Phase view, I find it a little peculiar that toggling between Wrap Phase and Unwrap Phase re-selects all the open measures. In my current case, I am looking at the relative phases of only a few of the measures. When I click Unwrap Phase (or Wrap Phase, for that matter), all of a sudden all the measures are selected and I have to deselect, again, the ones that I don't want to see. It would seem more natural, to me, to leave the current selection alone, however many or few are selected, when toggling the view. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> In the Overlays --> Phase view, I find it a little peculiar that toggling between Wrap Phase and Unwrap Phase re-selects all the open measures.


Yes, I noticed that last week, it will be sorted in the next build.


----------



## jonathanh

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Hi,

With Windows XP I re-analysed measurements taken with v3.29 for AV32R and this gave a significant improvement in sound clarity.
Easy to use and no issues.

How do I limit the number of filters used (ie 5 for the rear channels)?
Also when I changed the frequency range on the filter tasks it was reset for all the readings. I had to keep changing for Sub, rears etc.

Really excellent. Keep up the good work.:sn:

Jonathan


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



jonathanh said:


> How do I limit the number of filters used (ie 5 for the rear channels)?


Easiest is just to uncheck the enable boxes, so there are only 5 left enabled. An alternative is to set the ones you don't want REW to use to Manual control rather than Auto, handier if you want a mix of automatic and manually configured filters.


----------



## jonathanh

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

John,

Thank you for your advice.

I found a bigger issue today. Spent most of the morning measuring the speakers and then getting the filter settings. Really easy to use and great fun.

However, although I can talk to to AV32R and it will down load existing filter setings it will not up load the filter settings to the unit.

Re installed v4.11 and input the values manually and uploaded without a problem.

Any thoughts?

Jonathan


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



jonathanh said:


> I found a bigger issue today <...> although I can talk to to AV32R and it will down load existing filter setings it will not up load the filter settings to the unit.


I think I've spotted why that is, I'll include a fix in the next build, which should be this weekend some time. Only caveat is that I can't test it at the moment, so let me know if it works


----------



## jonathanh

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

John,

Thanks I'll let you know once I've tried it.

Jonathan


----------



## sebastian

he, i don´t have the time right now to test it. so could someone tell me if the new version (5beta) works on mac osx with a firewire interface, or is it the same problem like the last version?

thx

seb


----------



## laser188139

I was wanting to look at the Info panel for one of my measurements. On my desktop system, it took me a couple tries to figure out that it was there, just hidden behind the main application window. I don't remember it doing this on my laptop, although it may be that the laptop has a bigger screen and I just didn't notice. 

The same happened when I tried to bring up the REW Help information, it stayed hidden behind the main window. 

This occurred running Windows XP, with Java 6 SE 1.6.0_20-b02. My laptop, where I don't remember seeing this, runs Vista.

P.S. Later this symptom has gone away. Starting a new session later and looking at the measurements, the Info and the Help selections work fine. The only difference I can identify is that the first session, where I observed this behavior, I had been taking measurements, so I had been using the Measure window and the Settings, Check Levels, and SPL windows. Strange.


----------



## JohnM

sebastian said:


> he, i don´t have the time right now to test it. so could someone tell me if the new version (5beta) works on mac osx with a firewire interface, or is it the same problem like the last version?


There have been no changes in REW affecting Firewire operation under OS X, but some people are reporting firewire works for them - in one case that was using OS X 10.6.2, so apple may have fixed the problem in their JRE for the latest OS X builds.


----------



## JohnM

I have updated the beta files today, see post #1 for details.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I have updated the beta files today, see post #1 for details.


----------



## Warpdrv

Hey John, this is great....

Alot of people use the DCX 2496, is there now support in guidance for EQ filters for this unit for Q as its different then the 1124 or DEQ... 

That would be a greatly appreciated upgrade....


----------



## Nuance

Warpdrv said:


> Hey John, this is great....
> 
> Alot of people use the DCX 2496, is there now support in guidance for EQ filters for this unit for Q as its different then the 1124 or DEQ...
> 
> That would be a greatly appreciated upgrade....


+1. It would make things so much easier and I wouldn't have to use that Q calculator anymore.


----------



## JohnM

Warpdrv said:


> Alot of people use the DCX 2496, is there now support in guidance for EQ filters for this unit for Q as its different then the 1124 or DEQ...


Nothing yet, but it would be worth making a loopback measurement on the unit at a few different Q settings to see how they compare the the units already implemented. If you send me some loopback measurements for a 1kHz filter with 10dB cut at various DCX Q settings (and let me know what those settings were!) I can see if there is a quick way to add support.


----------



## Warpdrv

Nice...... that would be great.... either I or Nuance will put those up, hopefully this could be easily added and would be a fantastic addition to some already great software....

Thank so much John for the incredibly dedicated support !!!


----------



## sebastian

JohnM said:


> There have been no changes in REW affecting Firewire operation under OS X, but some people are reporting firewire works for them - in one case that was using OS X 10.6.2, so apple may have fixed the problem in their JRE for the latest OS X builds.




thank you john. if i have a little bit more time i will try it an give you a report. currently i use rew with an old 12" ibm thinkpad an winxp and everything works just fine.

btw,

i tryed the beta this weekend and was a really pleased. thx for the possibility to do more measurements in one session now.  the new gui is also a good thing. particularly the overlay, eq, ... section is quite nice. thumps up!!!!


----------



## laser188139

Thanks for posting the new beta build. 

I was playing with the Overlay -> Phase view, looking at the phase angles as Unwrapped. One anomaly I noticed is that, if I go back to a measure and adjust the impulse t=0 offset by a fixed amount, the phase is recalculated and this measure's new phase now appears in the Overlay view as wrapped, meaning I have to unwrap it again. It would be nice if adjusting the impulse time did not change the mode in which the data was displayed in the Overlay pane. 

Bill


----------



## jonathanh

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

John,

I've just tried the latest beta files. Settings uploaded to the AV32R without a problem.:clap:

Thank you

Jonathan


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I was playing with the Overlay -> Phase view, looking at the phase angles as Unwrapped. One anomaly I noticed is that, if I go back to a measure and adjust the impulse t=0 offset by a fixed amount, the phase is recalculated and this measure's new phase now appears in the Overlay view as wrapped, meaning I have to unwrap it again. It would be nice if adjusting the impulse time did not change the mode in which the data was displayed in the Overlay pane.


I fixed that Sunday night as it happens, and also added Plus 360 and Minus 360 buttons to the overlay phase controls, stopped the Plus 360 and minus 360 buttons from shifting wrapped phase and modified phase unwrap to ensure unwrapped phase lies within -180...180 in the middle of the measurement range.


----------



## Ilkka

Hi John,

Have been playing with the latest beta for a while. Here are my observations and suggestions:


'Use left as timing reference' should be 'Use other channel as timing reference' as the reference channel should always be the other channel, i.e. the one not getting the mic signal. Also forcing to use left channel for reference isn't flexible.
Add apply to all check box to SPL smooth controls. It would automatically apply same smoothing to all current and new measurements (also make REW to remember the settings after restart). Usually most measurements do need some kind of smoothing, so with this setting the correct smoothing would always be applied automatically when a new measurement is being taken.
For some reason the scope display is totally messed up, it shows SPL, phase, impulse, GD etc. depending on which display was active before switching to scope display.
Displays having frequency as an X axis, the X axis can not be zoomed out if the scrollbar is maxed out to the right.
Axis zoom in and out +/- graphics are quite small, hard to see which one is '+' and which one is '-'.
'Measure' button should be changed to something better (visually) and (or at least) moved to the rightmost button with one icon spacing to the next one (info). Now it's too difficult to notice, especially for beginners. Make it stand out more.
Save graph as jpg should be changed to png or gif, which are better file formats to display line graphics. Jpg is only good for photos.

Could be something else but can't remember now. Otherwise it looks and feels very good. :T


----------



## Ilkka

One more thing.


Something very strange happens above ~19.3 kHz when using the overlays | averaged function. The averaged response dies above ~19.3 kHz.


----------



## JohnM

Hello Ilkka, been a while!



Ilkka said:


> 'Use left as timing reference' should be 'Use other channel as timing reference' as the reference channel should always be the other channel, i.e. the one not getting the mic signal. Also forcing to use left channel for reference isn't flexible.


True, but with a broad spread of users it is better to narrow down the options a little. I'll think about that one.



> Add apply to all check box to SPL smooth controls. It would automatically apply same smoothing to all current and new measurements (also make REW to remember the settings after restart). Usually most measurements do need some kind of smoothing, so with this setting the correct smoothing would always be applied automatically when a new measurement is being taken.


I have added a new Analysis Setting that specifices the default smoothing to be applied for new measurements. For existing measurements the Overlays panel can be used to set all to the same smoothing.



> For some reason the scope display is totally messed up, it shows SPL, phase, impulse, GD etc. depending on which display was active before switching to scope display.


Fixed that.



> Displays having frequency as an X axis, the X axis can not be zoomed out if the scrollbar is maxed out to the right.


I couldn't reproduce this, must be some circumstance I'm not replicating. Where is the cursor when you see this problem?



> Axis zoom in and out +/- graphics are quite small, hard to see which one is '+' and which one is '-'.


True, I'll add that to the list.



> 'Measure' button should be changed to something better (visually) and (or at least) moved to the rightmost button with one icon spacing to the next one (info). Now it's too difficult to notice, especially for beginners. Make it stand out more.


I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'm happy to accept suggestions for how the button should appear 



> Save graph as jpg should be changed to png or gif, which are better file formats to display line graphics. Jpg is only good for photos.


Bit of a sweeping generalisation there. PNG compression is low, so the files tend to be many times the size of JPEG even when the JPEG is set to maximum quality. GIF is limited to 256 colours, causing banding in (for example) spectrograms, so JPEG still looks a good compromise.



> Something very strange happens above ~19.3 kHz when using the overlays | averaged function. The averaged response dies above ~19.3 kHz.


I think I've fixed that, the last sample of the average could be off the bottom of the plot which would cause the HF to droop if the average were subsequently smoothed. note that the average is generated from the traces with the smoothing they had when it was generated, so it can differ from the source traces if their smoothing is subsequently reduced.

The changes will be included when I next upload a build. Thanks for the feedback, you should drop by more often. :wave:


----------



## Ilkka

JohnM said:


> Hello Ilkka, been a while!


Too long, I say. :innocent:


> True, but with a broad spread of users it is better to narrow down the options a little. I'll think about that one.


You can probably guess that I wouldn't be asking if I wouldn't have a specific case on my mind. :foottap:


> I couldn't reproduce this, must be some circumstance I'm not replicating. Where is the cursor when you see this problem?


It seem to happen only if the cursor is at 2 Hz. Anything more and it works, although the rate of zoom out seams to be linked to the place of the cursor. If placed close to 2 Hz, the rate is really low.



> I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'm happy to accept suggestions for how the button should appear


If not change the outlook of the button, at least move it to right and slightly separate from the I/O buttons.


> Bit of a sweeping generalisation there. PNG compression is low, so the files tend to be many times the size of JPEG even when the JPEG is set to maximum quality. GIF is limited to 256 colours, causing banding in (for example) spectrograms, so JPEG still looks a good compromise.


Well it's not that bad, but I'm so used to use PNG with line graphics that I can not tolerate any blurriness. Also compression favours PNG unless the image is really graphical (like the spectrogram). I did a small test.

JPG screen - 188 KB
PNG screen - 32 KB




> Thanks for the feedback, you should drop by more often. :wave:


I will, really!


----------



## jtalden

John, 
Thanks for the new version! 

Minor bug:
- It would be helpful if the popup warning box regarding low left reference channel output would only appear once. I must click okay to cancel this warning box for each measurement. Maybe either a check box for "don't show me this message again" or possibly give the warning after a measurement if the left signal isn't received at a good level? [I pushed the external card left channel level to -2 dB below clipping and I still get this message] 

Wish list: [pipe dreams:?]
- I am hoping you will try find a way to improve the phase calculation to clean it up some when taking full range measurements from a listening position. There are thousands of degrees of phase rotation instead of the ~520° that is real. I can just barely make out the correct plot line within all the wraps when it’s set to "wrapped" and "1/24 octave smoothing". More smoothing obliterates the line completely. 

- It would be particularly nice to be able to see averaged phase, impulse, etc. 

Thanks,
John


----------



## JohnM

Ilkka said:


> You can probably guess that I wouldn't be asking if I wouldn't have a specific case on my mind.


I'll get that done at the weekend.



> It seem to happen only if the cursor is at 2 Hz. Anything more and it works, although the rate of zoom out seams to be linked to the place of the cursor. If placed close to 2 Hz, the rate is really low.


Fixed that now, thanks.



> If not change the outlook of the button, at least move it to right and slightly separate from the I/O buttons.


I think I'll swap the open and measure buttons around, so measure is the first button.


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> Minor bug:
> - It would be helpful if the popup warning box regarding low left reference channel output would only appear once. I must click okay to cancel this warning box for each measurement. Maybe either a check box for "don't show me this message again" or possibly give the warning after a measurement if the left signal isn't received at a good level?


The message only appears if there is a problem, sounds like the loopback connection may not be working or something is not right about the overall configuration. Best look further at that in a separate post.



> - I am hoping you will try find a way to improve the phase calculation to clean it up some when taking full range measurements from a listening position. There are thousands of degrees of phase rotation instead of the ~520° that is real. I can just barely make out the correct plot line within all the wraps when it’s set to "wrapped" and "1/24 octave smoothing". More smoothing obliterates the line completely.


Phase is affected by time delay, the delay corresponding to the time for the sound to travel from speaker to mic must be removed to get rid of the phase wraps caused by the delay. Try the "Estimate IR Delay" control.


----------



## jtalden

JohnM said:


> The message only appears if there is a problem, sounds like the loopback connection may not be working or something is not right about the overall configuration. Best look further at that in a separate post.


I was splitting the right channel output for input to the left channel as well as for the mic signal. It seemed to work fine. I'll try using the left output back to the left input. That's probably what is needed. 

Thanks.


----------



## kflory

Warpdrv said:


> Hey John, this is great....
> 
> Alot of people use the DCX 2496, is there now support in guidance for EQ filters for this unit for Q as its different then the 1124 or DEQ...
> 
> That would be a greatly appreciated upgrade....





Nuance said:


> +1. It would make things so much easier and I wouldn't have to use that Q calculator anymore.


+=1. Add me to the list of folks that would greatly appreciate this. 

Awesome tool. Thanks for sharing!


----------



## Ilkka

Hi John,

A few more bugs/observations.

Tested with Windows 7, HP Probook 6440b (Intel i5 core), Genelec GACT soundcard (uses USB Audio CODEC). 


Smoothing is not removed by ctrl+shift+0. I suggest it might be a good idea to make the smoothing toggle when ctrl+shift+number is pressed repeatedly. 

‘SPL & phase’ shows the scroll bar on the phase (on the right side) even if scroll bars was not turned on. 

The sound output in Windows 7 always defaults to ‘mute’ when REW starts. The output has to be turned on manually every time.

REW v5 beta does not accept “Nordic” characters, such as umlaut-a (Ä) and umlaut-o (Ö) in the measurements file names.


----------



## laser188139

John, this is more a question than a bug. When REW adjusts the measurements for the soundcard calibration, does this adjustment affect only the SPL levels? When I rebuilt my soundcard calibration file through the Xenix802 preamp, I happened to save the measurement itself. In the SPL&Phase chart, there is more than a 90° phase shift at the bottom end. I am wondering, is this bias present in all the other measurements? Is it a measurement artifact of the wavelengths getting longer? Or is subtracted out somehow? 

Thanks,
Bill

P.S. Looking back at one case where I saved the .mdat of the verification sweep of the flat loopback connection, after building a soundcard calibration file, it appears the answer to the question is yes, the phase bias is present in all measurements, it is not subtracted out.


----------



## laser188139

In reading some information on the Cross-Spectrum site and playing with the Settings -> Mic/Meter calibration file panel, I see that it now accepts the .frd extension advocated by Herb. When I restored my mic calibration file to the .frd extension instead of .cal and try to select it with the Browse button, the righthand side of the Choose calibration file dialog does not show the file contents. It shows the first 32 lines of .cal files, but nothing for .frd files. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> When I restored my mic calibration file to the .frd extension instead of .cal and try to select it with the Browse button, the righthand side of the Choose calibration file dialog does not show the file contents. It shows the first 32 lines of .cal files, but nothing for .frd files.


I've added .frd to the file preview.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, this is more a question than a bug. When REW adjusts the measurements for the soundcard calibration, does this adjustment affect only the SPL levels? When I rebuilt my soundcard calibration file through the Xenix802 preamp, I happened to save the measurement itself. In the SPL&Phase chart, there is more than a 90° phase shift at the bottom end. I am wondering, is this bias present in all the other measurements? Is it a measurement artifact of the wavelengths getting longer? Or is subtracted out somehow?


REW V5 includes both amplitude and phase calibration data in the soundcard cal file and applies both compensations for subsequent measurements. For earlier measurements "Change Cal" can be used to load the soundcard cal file that includes phase info. Most loopbacks will have rising phase at low frequencies as a consequence of the highpass characteristics of the analog stages.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> REW V5 includes both amplitude and phase calibration data in the soundcard cal file and applies both compensations for subsequent measurements. ...


I'm sure you are familiar with the verification technique recommended by Greg and others to run a sweep of the loopback connection after building the soundcard file and verifying that with the just-built file the frequency response is now flat. Would you expect the phase response to be flat, too?

I'm looking at the one saved .mdat file where I did this. If I clear the soundcard calibration file, the SPL data bends and matches the calibration file curve. If I restore the soundcard calibration file, the SPL curve becomes perfectly flat again. But the phase curve never changes, making me wonder if the compensation is not being applied, or if the curve is not being refreshed when the file changes.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I'm sure you are familiar with the verification technique recommended by Greg and others to run a sweep of the loopback connection after building the soundcard file and verifying that with the just-built file the frequency response is now flat. Would you expect the phase response to be flat, too?


Yes



> I'm looking at the one saved .mdat file where I did this. If I clear the soundcard calibration file, the SPL data bends and matches the calibration file curve. If I restore the soundcard calibration file, the SPL curve becomes perfectly flat again. But the phase curve never changes, making me wonder if the compensation is not being applied, or if the curve is not being refreshed when the file changes.


Does the soundcard cal file you are loading contain phase data? All seems to work OK for me.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ... Does the soundcard cal file you are loading contain phase data? All seems to work OK for me.


That would be it, thanks. I was using an older soundcard cal file, built with v4. As I saw non-zero phase data in the SPL & Phase curve when I loaded the .mdat file, I was expecting that REW would take this into account when compensating for the soundcard. Obviously, now that you mention it, the impulse curve includes the phase information but REW does not see that when it loads the older soundcard file, it sees only the data in the calibration file itself. Now I need to go and rebuild my soundcard files on both systems, and see if that affects any of my inferences on group delay between my fronts and sub. 

Oops,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

Ilkka said:


> A few more bugs/observations.
> 
> Tested with Windows 7, HP Probook 6440b (Intel i5 core), Genelec GACT soundcard (uses USB Audio CODEC).
> 
> 
> Smoothing is not removed by ctrl+shift+0. I suggest it might be a good idea to make the smoothing toggle when ctrl+shift+number is pressed repeatedly.


It seems from Vista onwards Microsoft assigned ctrl+shift+0 to switch the input language, causing problems for any application using that shortcut http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893. I'll add the smoothing toggle capability you suggest.



> ‘SPL & phase’ shows the scroll bar on the phase (on the right side) even if scroll bars was not turned on.


That is intentional, otherwise there would not be a way to shift the axis. The plot (apart from the data corresponding to the right hand axis) can be shifted by right-click and drag whether the left and bottom scrollbars are displayed or not, but the scrollbar is essential to shift the RH axis.



> The sound output in Windows 7 always defaults to ‘mute’ when REW starts. The output has to be turned on manually every time.


A curious one, but I also saw it on my Win 7 test PC if I used a USB soundcard (didn't happen with the onboard audio). Think I've fixed it though. 



> REW v5 beta does not accept “Nordic” characters, such as umlaut-a (Ä) and umlaut-o (Ö) in the measurements file names.


I've fixed that.


----------



## afalout

Hello John,

new guy here; First, my hat off to you, for your knowledge, your effort, and sharing it all with us... my head is still spinning after weeks of reading and experimentation, and the new beta added a few more spins  Here are my notes:

General Beta comments / suggestions:

Currently there is no way to tell which .mdat file is open in REW – It might be useful to show file name of file currently open on main window top bar, and show (*) after file name when file changed and needs saving (as is a convention with most application this days)
Selecting and de-selecting measurements to be shown in Overlay window is a very slow process, especially now that the number of measurements has been lifted to 20 – may I suggest that in Overlays window one can use ctrl+click (or right-click) to "solo" measurement(s) temporarily like on a mixing console. Also adding ALL and NONE buttons to select all or no measurements in one click might be usefull.
Associating .mdat files with REW does not open the file in REW when file is double-clicked, it only opens REW without loading the .mdat file
Enabling drag & drop for .mdat and .req files might make REW use a bit faster for people like me that tend to keep large number of measurement files in several places

EQ related :

EQ filters are “Always on Top” window which can be very inconvenient especially on smaller screens
Would it be possible to add more then 20 filters for generic EQ – for instance, very popular Behringer DEQ2496 has:
* 31 band graphic eq (GEQ) +-15db, bandwidth=1/3 oct, and (simultaneously):
* 10 parametric (PEQ)
so 41 filters total is needed to fully control that unit, but I am sure that there are more then few EQ units that people might want to use with more then 20 bands – not to mention software Eqs... (NB. DEQ2494 Graphic EQ also has VPQ (virtual para-graphic) mode, which allows parametric control of graphic EQ - BW/OCT from 1/3 to 59/3)
PE (parametric) EQ type is not available in generic EQ, but is needed for units like DEQ2496
Manual states that "Use 'Optimize PK Gain & Q' control to run the filter settings optimization after manually assigning filters". I expected that this means that only gain and Q will be adjusted. However, the frequencies in "EQ filters” window do change, if only slightly. Is this expected?
Why does EQ "match range" ends at 10Khz – and not perhaps at 20 or 22Khz?
There is “Individual Max Boost” control, but no Cut control?

Also I have some Behringer DEQ2496 questions/suggestions not related directly to the Beta - where is the best place to post these? 

Thanks! 
Andrej Falout


----------



## JohnM

Hello Andrej,

Thanks for the suggestions. Re parametric filters in the "Generic" setting, those are labelled "PK". The "Optimise PK Gain & Q" is a hangover from the REW V4, the algorithms in V5 tweak frequency also. The main tool in V5 is "Match response to target". The match range is limited to 10kHz as that is already very high for achieving repeatable measurements and in-room measurements will typically have HF rolloff that it would be detrimental to try and counter. Excess boost could cause significant problems, whereas cuts are relatively benign and would not usually need to be limited.

Re the DEQ2496, try the Equalization Devices forum.

P.S. I've added a right click menu to the overlay panel legend with options to select all or clear selections.


----------



## laser188139

With REW v4, after a while I began saving the .mdat files when I built the soundcard calibration for various configurations, e.g., when I tried 44k sampling instead of 48k. When I open one of these with REW v5, the SPL level shows normal, zero dB for most of the range, small oscillations and tailing off at the ends. So far, so good. 

I have learned since building those files that the desktop system's soundcard inverts the impulse. So I go into Impulse view, in the Impulse Controls I check Invert Impulse, then I return to SPL & Phase view. Now the SPL levels appear centered around 75 dB, not the 0 dB of the original data. 

I tried the steps again, this time unchecking Plot Responses Normalized before checking the Invert Impulse box. The impulse itself does not change in amplitude. 

I can create this behavior regardless of whether the .mdat file was built with v4 or with v5. So it may be unique to soundcard .mdat files, but it does not depend on the version of REW used to build them.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> ...in the Impulse Controls I check Invert Impulse, then I return to SPL & Phase view. Now the SPL levels appear centered around 75 dB, not the 0 dB of the original data.


Fixed that, thanks. By the way, I've added min/excess phase and min/excess group delay plots today for the next build, you might find the excess group delay plot more useful for alignment than the measured GD.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ...
> *16.5.2010*
> 
> 
> ...
> Made phase unwrapping insensitive to measurement delays
> Inhibit log spaced conversion of measurements if IR peak significantly offset from zero
> ...


John, I was trying out the fix to how the 96PPO option impacted the group delay information. I am still seeing an anomaly. The helpfile now describes the 96PPO option has no effect when there is a long delay before the impulse, and I've verified that. When I use the Estimate IR Delay option in the Impulse Controls to remove this delay, the 96PPO option is actioned and the data is compressed. I see new spikes into negative time in the 1kHz-6kHz range that are not present Estimate IR Delay is applied and the 96PPO option is disabled. These spikes disappear, of course, as more smoothing is applied beyond 1/24 octave. Are these a normal artifact of the file compression, and not a problem in practice because one will normally have to apply more than 1/24 octave smoothing to see the meaningful information?

Here are the individual plots, gold when 96PPO was enabled when Estimate IR Delay was applied, and teal when 96PPO was disabled when Estimate IR Delay was applied:
















Here are the two plots together:


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, I was trying out the fix to how the 96PPO option impacted the group delay information. I am still seeing an anomaly. The helpfile now describes the 96PPO option has no effect when there is a long delay before the impulse, and I've verified that. When I use the Estimate IR Delay option in the Impulse Controls to remove this delay, the 96PPO option is actioned and the data is compressed. I see new spikes into negative time in the 1kHz-6kHz range that are not present Estimate IR Delay is applied and the 96PPO option is disabled. These spikes disappear, of course, as more smoothing is applied beyond 1/24 octave. Are these a normal artifact of the file compression, and not a problem in practice because one will normally have to apply more than 1/24 octave smoothing to see the meaningful information?


In essence, yes. In areas where phase is changing rapidly the 96PPO data can effectively be undersampled, creating ambiguity in the phase data. The group delay is generated from the slope of the phase data, so errors in phase unwrapping due to the undersampling lead to errors in the GD. GD can be calculated independently of the phase (by a process of differentiation implemented via FFT) but would then need to be separately smoothed to tie up with the measurement smoothing and keeping the smoothing consistent such that GD and phase slope still corresponded would be difficult, so I don't think it is worth pursuing that.


----------



## redmountain

Beta 5 crashing here on Mac 10.4.11, latest JSE 5, upon starting REW...

I installed beta 5 because the 'little / big endian thing', running many PPCs

Version 4 opened fine though

Let me know if I can test further...

TIA

Klaus



Crash log :

OS Version: 10.4.11 (Build 8S165)
Report Version: 4

Command: JavaApplicationStub
Path: /Applications/RoomEQWizardV5Beta.app/Contents/MacOS/JavaApplicationStub
Parent: WindowServer [64]

Version: ??? (5.0 Beta)

PID: 270
Thread: 1

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x30544100

Thread 0:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000b348 mach_msg_trap + 8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000b29c mach_msg + 60
2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de9ac __CFRunLoopRun + 832
3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de2b0 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 268
4 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329eb20 RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 264
5 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329e1b4 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 380
6 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329e020 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 96
7 com.apple.AppKit 0x93783734 _DPSNextEvent + 384
8 com.apple.AppKit 0x937833f8 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 116
9 com.apple.AppKit 0x9377f93c -[NSApplication run] + 472
10 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe4d9e8 +[AWTStarter startAWT:] + 1848
11 com.apple.Foundation 0x92bf3980 __NSFireMainThreadPerform + 276
12 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9080f928 __CFRunLoopPerformPerform + 104
13 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907df300 __CFRunLoopDoSources0 + 384
14 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de830 __CFRunLoopRun + 452
15 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de2b0 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 268
16 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94f01954 startupJava(int, int, char const* const*, __CFDictionary const*, BuilderVersion, char const*, char const**) + 296
17 JavaApplicationStub 0x00002868 0x1000 + 6248
18 JavaApplicationStub 0x00002028 0x1000 + 4136
19 JavaApplicationStub 0x00001d2c 0x1000 + 3372

Thread 1 Crashed:
0 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x904f2210 getNextAxialDitheredShadingScanline + 1080
1 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x904850a8 getNextAxialShadingScanline + 48
2 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x904856ac getBytesAxialShadingDataProvider + 128
3 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d5e50 CGAccessSessionGetChunks + 508
4 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d59d4 img_raw_read + 240
5 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x9043b664 img_alphamerge_read + 476
6 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d4628 img_data_lock + 3680
7 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d2e44 CGSImageDataLockWithReference + 156
8 libRIP.A.dylib 0x947d62ac ripc_AcquireImage + 920
9 libRIP.A.dylib 0x947d49a8 ripc_DrawImage + 2428
10 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d2b94 CGContextDelegateDrawImage + 76
11 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d2aec CGContextDrawImage + 340
12 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x90484074 drawAxialShading + 1052
13 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x90483bd8 CGContextDrawShading + 172
14 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe62644 CompleteCGContext + 828
15 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe70c64 ImageSD_finishCGContext + 44
16 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe70ec4 Java_apple_awt_CRenderer_doShape + 500
17 <<00000000>> 0x045a8264 0 + 73040484
18 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
19 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
20 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
21 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
22 <<00000000>> 0x045a1e10 0 + 73014800
23 <<00000000>> 0x045a1e10 0 + 73014800
24 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
25 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
26 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
27 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
28 <<00000000>> 0x0459f164 0 + 73003364
29 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481aa8 jio_snprintf + 397672
30 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481818 jio_snprintf + 397016
31 libjvm.dylib 0x9a49eb34 JVM_NewInstanceFromConstructor + 4772
32 libjvm.dylib 0x9a558294 JVM_InvokeMethod + 1380
33 libjvm.dylib 0x9a557f84 JVM_InvokeMethod + 596
34 <<00000000>> 0x045a8264 0 + 73040484
35 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
36 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
37 <<00000000>> 0x045a1d20 0 + 73014560
38 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
39 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
40 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
41 <<00000000>> 0x0459f164 0 + 73003364
42 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481aa8 jio_snprintf + 397672
43 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481818 jio_snprintf + 397016
44 libjvm.dylib 0x9a4a0ecc JVM_MaxMemory + 8396
45 libjvm.dylib 0x9a571c68 JVM_IsInterrupted + 9016
46 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94f0efc4 JNIEnv_::CallStaticVoidMethod(_jclass*, _jmethodID*, ...) + 60
47 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94f000f8 startJavaApplication + 3864
48 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94eff1d8 java_main_stub(void*) + 72
49 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9002bd08 _pthread_body + 96


----------



## redmountain

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Crossposting from the 'normal' forums...

Beta 5 crashing here on Mac 10.4.11, latest JSE 5, upon starting REW...

I installed beta 5 because the 'little / big endian thing', running many PPCs

Version 4 opened fine though

Let me know if I can test further...

TIA

Klaus



Crash log :

OS Version: 10.4.11 (Build 8S165)
Report Version: 4

Command: JavaApplicationStub
Path: /Applications/RoomEQWizardV5Beta.app/Contents/MacOS/JavaApplicationStub
Parent: WindowServer [64]

Version: ??? (5.0 Beta)

PID: 270
Thread: 1

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)
Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x30544100

Thread 0:
0 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000b348 mach_msg_trap + 8
1 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9000b29c mach_msg + 60
2 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de9ac __CFRunLoopRun + 832
3 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de2b0 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 268
4 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329eb20 RunCurrentEventLoopInMode + 264
5 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329e1b4 ReceiveNextEventCommon + 380
6 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329e020 BlockUntilNextEventMatchingListInMode + 96
7 com.apple.AppKit 0x93783734 _DPSNextEvent + 384
8 com.apple.AppKit 0x937833f8 -[NSApplication nextEventMatchingMask:untilDate:inMode:dequeue:] + 116
9 com.apple.AppKit 0x9377f93c -[NSApplication run] + 472
10 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe4d9e8 +[AWTStarter startAWT:] + 1848
11 com.apple.Foundation 0x92bf3980 __NSFireMainThreadPerform + 276
12 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x9080f928 __CFRunLoopPerformPerform + 104
13 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907df300 __CFRunLoopDoSources0 + 384
14 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de830 __CFRunLoopRun + 452
15 com.apple.CoreFoundation 0x907de2b0 CFRunLoopRunSpecific + 268
16 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94f01954 startupJava(int, int, char const* const*, __CFDictionary const*, BuilderVersion, char const*, char const**) + 296
17 JavaApplicationStub 0x00002868 0x1000 + 6248
18 JavaApplicationStub 0x00002028 0x1000 + 4136
19 JavaApplicationStub 0x00001d2c 0x1000 + 3372

Thread 1 Crashed:
0 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x904f2210 getNextAxialDitheredShadingScanline + 1080
1 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x904850a8 getNextAxialShadingScanline + 48
2 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x904856ac getBytesAxialShadingDataProvider + 128
3 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d5e50 CGAccessSessionGetChunks + 508
4 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d59d4 img_raw_read + 240
5 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x9043b664 img_alphamerge_read + 476
6 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d4628 img_data_lock + 3680
7 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d2e44 CGSImageDataLockWithReference + 156
8 libRIP.A.dylib 0x947d62ac ripc_AcquireImage + 920
9 libRIP.A.dylib 0x947d49a8 ripc_DrawImage + 2428
10 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d2b94 CGContextDelegateDrawImage + 76
11 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x903d2aec CGContextDrawImage + 340
12 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x90484074 drawAxialShading + 1052
13 com.apple.CoreGraphics 0x90483bd8 CGContextDrawShading + 172
14 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe62644 CompleteCGContext + 828
15 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe70c64 ImageSD_finishCGContext + 44
16 libawt.jnilib 0x9fe70ec4 Java_apple_awt_CRenderer_doShape + 500
17 <<00000000>> 0x045a8264 0 + 73040484
18 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
19 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
20 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
21 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
22 <<00000000>> 0x045a1e10 0 + 73014800
23 <<00000000>> 0x045a1e10 0 + 73014800
24 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
25 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
26 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
27 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
28 <<00000000>> 0x0459f164 0 + 73003364
29 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481aa8 jio_snprintf + 397672
30 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481818 jio_snprintf + 397016
31 libjvm.dylib 0x9a49eb34 JVM_NewInstanceFromConstructor + 4772
32 libjvm.dylib 0x9a558294 JVM_InvokeMethod + 1380
33 libjvm.dylib 0x9a557f84 JVM_InvokeMethod + 596
34 <<00000000>> 0x045a8264 0 + 73040484
35 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
36 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
37 <<00000000>> 0x045a1d20 0 + 73014560
38 <<00000000>> 0x045a19c0 0 + 73013696
39 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
40 <<00000000>> 0x045a1ab0 0 + 73013936
41 <<00000000>> 0x0459f164 0 + 73003364
42 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481aa8 jio_snprintf + 397672
43 libjvm.dylib 0x9a481818 jio_snprintf + 397016
44 libjvm.dylib 0x9a4a0ecc JVM_MaxMemory + 8396
45 libjvm.dylib 0x9a571c68 JVM_IsInterrupted + 9016
46 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94f0efc4 JNIEnv_::CallStaticVoidMethod(_jclass*, _jmethodID*, ...) + 60
47 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94f000f8 startJavaApplication + 3864
48 ...ple.JavaApplicationLauncher 0x94eff1d8 java_main_stub(void*) + 72
49 libSystem.B.dylib 0x9002bd08 _pthread_body + 96


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



redmountain said:


> Beta 5 crashing here on Mac 10.4.11, latest JSE 5, upon starting REW...


There doesn't appear to be anything in the crash dump relating to REW itself, worth making sure the download was not corrupted in some way. Can also try downloading the jar files (notionally the Linux build, but should work on all platforms) and launching from those.


----------



## redmountain

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

You mean I should download a linux build and try this on a mac ?
( sorry the dumb q )

TIA

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Yes, the "Linux" build is just a zipped set of jar files, they will work on Windows, Linux or OS X. There is a readme in the zip file with instructions.


----------



## redmountain

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Thanks, will try

Klaus


----------



## redmountain

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Same crash upon REW launch....
It gets till the 'generating toolbar' and crashes during this

Klaus


----------



## laser188139

I have another anomaly in the group delay display. While looking at the group delay of near field measures of my front speakers, I went into an individual measure and clicked Unwrap Phase. After comparing the phases, I happened to change the smoothing. When I went back to the Overlay view of Group Delay, I found these strange negative peaks at various frequencies. 

In the attached graph, there are two views of the same measure. The green was the original, smoothed 1/24 octave. The teal is what happens when one unwraps the phase, then changes the smoothing to 1/12 octave.


----------



## laser188139

Spelling: In the Helpfile under Graph Panel, Impulse Response, "aftre" should be "after": 



> The envelope of the impulse, also called the energy-time curve or ETC, is useful to identify reflections and see the overall shape of the impulse response. The plot below shows the envelope, the spikes *aftre* the initial peak are due to reflections from room surfaces, the first spike occurs 3.25ms after the initial peak indicating that the sound travelled an additional 1.11m or 3.7 feet to reach the microphone.


----------



## redmountain

Sorry 
version 5 beta does crash upon launch .
Stalls shortly at Toolbar creation then crash.
Just downloaded 4.11 again and this one opens...
I'm glad it is not my mac :R

Hope to be able to test a fixed version 5, it was the 'little / big endian' thing that was not ok for PPC with version 4...

TIA and please let me know 

Klaus


----------



## redmountain

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Just tried 4.11 again, and this one launches...
So why isn't beta 5 launching on my PPC ?

TIA

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I have another anomaly in the group delay display. While looking at the group delay of near field measures of my front speakers, I went into an individual measure and clicked Unwrap Phase. After comparing the phases, I happened to change the smoothing. When I went back to the Overlay view of Group Delay, I found these strange negative peaks at various frequencies.


I've changed the way phase unwrapping is managed and the handling of unwrapped data to correct this. It has had quite a few ramifications through the code, which along with the addition of the min and excess phase and GD plots and a few other changes mean the next build will need some careful testing. I'll probably have that available for upload this coming weekend.


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> Sorry
> version 5 beta does crash upon launch .
> Stalls shortly at Toolbar creation then crash.


It is looking like that is an issue with Tiger, since REW seems to start and run happily under Leopard and Snow Leopard and the crash is happening inside Apple's code. I no longer have access to a Tiger platform to test on (and the platform I did have was Intel anyway) so figuring out what Tiger doesn't like and resolving the problem will be difficult.

Edit: did some searching, seems this same crash affects other Java apps: http://community.jboss.org/thread/10990?tstart=0

A suggested workaround is to use option "-Dapple.awt.graphics.UseQuartz=false" when starting the application from the command line, please try this (i.e. run REW using the command

java -Dapple.awt.graphics.UseQuartz=false -jar RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar

from the directory where the jar files were placed.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ... It has had quite a few ramifications through the code, ...


I thought it might be significant, John. That's why, when I noticed the graph looking like that, I started scratching my head to figure out what sequence I had done that provoked that behavior. 

Bill


----------



## redmountain

JohnM said:


> It is looking like that is an issue with Tiger, since REW seems to start and run happily under Leopard and Snow Leopard and the crash is happening inside Apple's code. I no longer have access to a Tiger platform to test on (and the platform I did have was Intel anyway) so figuring out what Tiger doesn't like and resolving the problem will be difficult.
> 
> Edit: did some searching, seems this same crash affects other Java apps: http://community.jboss.org/thread/10990?tstart=0
> 
> A suggested workaround is to use option "-Dapple.awt.graphics.UseQuartz=false" when starting the application from the command line, please try this (i.e. run REW using the command
> 
> java -Dapple.awt.graphics.UseQuartz=false -jar RoomEQ_Wizard_obf.jar
> 
> from the directory where the jar files were placed.


I'm not a command line user...
will there be a workaround in your code ?
TIA

and best regards

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> I'm not a command line user...
> will there be a workaround in your code ?


I'll include the property setting in the next build, but if you want to see whether it will work or not ahead of that then opening a command prompt is the way to find out.


----------



## redmountain

That's very kind and very good support !
I'm sorry for Apple being changing so fast...
I am going thru issues myself with other stuff / Apple

Will report back later

Best

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



redmountain said:


> Just tried 4.11 again, and this one launches...
> So why isn't beta 5 launching on my PPC ?


For the benefit of others reading this thread who may not have seen the related discussion on HTS, this looks to be an issue with Apple's Quartz renderer and a potential workaround is to disable it in favour of the Sun renderer. That will be tried in the next REW build.


----------



## redmountain

Command line workaround works
:R
If the generator - sine wave - sounds right, the 'little/big endian' is handled ok ?

Best

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> Command line workaround works
> :R
> If the generator - sine wave - sounds right, the 'little/big endian' is handled ok ?


Hooray! Yes, if the sine wave sounds like a pure tone and not a buzz saw then that should be OK as well. :T


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ...
> *16.5.2010*
> 
> 
> ...
> Show measurement number alongside measurement name in overlay legend
> ...


I really like the measurement number alongside the measurement name in the overlay legend. 

I see a related issue in the pulldown in the Waterfall Controls that selects the measure to overlay. After opening several measures, I changed the measurement names to be more informative. I generated waterfalls for the fifth and seventh, then while examining the seventh I overlaid it with the fifth. Note that the name of the seventh is now "Right Large On", yet in the pulldown it appears with its original name "7 May 7 17:34:23". 

Bill


----------



## redmountain

JohnM said:


> Hooray! Yes, if the sine wave sounds like a pure tone and not a buzz saw then that should be OK as well. :T


Generator has to be set to -55dB to *not* distort...
In the measurement I can't go that lo, and additionally it says its to lo if I use the lowest ( -40dB ), and this still distorts... ( your term 'buzz saw' nails it )
Something with byte swap still ? ( little / big endian )

Sorry

Let me know what I can test further, thanks

Klaus


----------



## Ricci

Warpdrv said:


> Hey John, this is great....
> 
> Alot of people use the DCX 2496, is there now support in guidance for EQ filters for this unit for Q as its different then the 1124 or DEQ...
> 
> That would be a greatly appreciated upgrade....





JohnM said:


> Nothing yet, but it would be worth making a loopback measurement on the unit at a few different Q settings to see how they compare the the units already implemented. If you send me some loopback measurements for a 1kHz filter with 10dB cut at various DCX Q settings (and let me know what those settings were!) I can see if there is a quick way to add support.


I've got the DCX2496 measurements. I'll pm them to you shortly John. Did you want the measurement files or will just the screenshots be fine?


On a side note. You cannot completely remove smoothing from the graphs in V5? Is 1/24 always present at the very least? Everytime I tried to make one of the measurements raw with no smoothing it defaulted itself right back to 1/24.


----------



## redmountain

Reminds me of having created measurement files for Doug Plumb, RPlusD measurement software...
with the DCX2496...:innocent:

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I see a related issue in the pulldown in the Waterfall Controls that selects the measure to overlay. After opening several measures, I changed the measurement names to be more informative. I generated waterfalls for the fifth and seventh, then while examining the seventh I overlaid it with the fifth. Note that the name of the seventh is now "Right Large On", yet in the pulldown it appears with its original name "7 May 7 17:34:23".


Fixed that.


----------



## JohnM

Ricci said:


> On a side note. You cannot completely remove smoothing from the graphs in V5? Is 1/24 always present at the very least? Everytime I tried to make one of the measurements raw with no smoothing it defaulted itself right back to 1/24.


See post #5. Re DCX, I do need the mdat please, also please include a measurement at 1kHz, -6dB, Q=1.


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> Generator has to be set to -55dB to *not* distort...
> In the measurement I can't go that lo, and additionally it says its to lo if I use the lowest ( -40dB ), and this still distorts... ( your term 'buzz saw' nails it )
> Something with byte swap still ? ( little / big endian )


Sounds like there is still a byte swap issue, I'll look into it.


----------



## Ricci

JohnM said:


> See post #5. Re DCX, I do need the mdat please, also please include a measurement at 1kHz, -6dB, Q=1.


Gotcha. I missed post 5. 

Do you want all of the measurements saved into one file? I'll see if I can get time tomorrow afternoon.


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> Let me know what I can test further, thanks
> 
> Klaus


Klaus, can you try selecting Java Sound Audio engine as the output device in the REW soundcard settings and see if it behaves the same way? Ditto for any other output devices listed there.


----------



## Victor

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

can't seem to find how to change the SPL trace offset.
Has this been removed?


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



Victor said:


> can't seem to find how to change the SPL trace offset.
> Has this been removed?


Per release notes of build from 16.5.10 in post #1:


Moved the trace offset adjustments into the SPL overlay graph controls


----------



## Victor

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

thanx


----------



## paulrichards7

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I am having problems running it on on Mac with Audiofire 8
I can select the Audiofire as output but not input
Then when it has done a sweep, tells me there is a problem with the peak reading
Ive noticed in other posts problems with firewire
Is this just a no-go?
Thanks
Paul


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



paulrichards7 said:


> I am having problems running it on on Mac with Audiofire 8
> I can select the Audiofire as output but not input
> Then when it has done a sweep, tells me there is a problem with the peak reading
> Ive noticed in other posts problems with firewire
> Is this just a no-go?


Firewire operation under OS X is mixed. Under 10.5 it did not appear to be possible to select a firewire device as input. However, some people are now reporting firewire works for them - in one case that was using OS X 10.6.2, so Apple may have fixed the problem in their JRE for the latest OS X builds which in turn may trickle down to older builds.


----------



## Warpdrv

Ricci said:


> Gotcha. I missed post 5.
> 
> Do you want all of the measurements saved into one file? I'll see if I can get time tomorrow afternoon.


Nice work Ricci..... 

I think this will be a great help for many


----------



## Nuance

Ricci is the man!


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I have updated the beta files today, see post #1 for details.


----------



## JohnM

I have updated the beta files today, see post #1 for details.


----------



## Nuance

JohnM - all I have to say is thank you and you rock!


----------



## Hydrazine

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

John,

Is the user manual available in a printable format?

I can view it in the help section of REW but a hard copy would be nice.

Thank you,
Tony


----------



## laser188139

Thanks for posting the new version, John. 

I noticed something I don't remember seeing before. Looking at the normalized impulse curve, I was surprised to see the first peak/dip truncated off the top/bottom of the screen. On further investigation, I discovered that the normalization is from the most extreme data point, which is not necessarily the peak when the curve is inferred. (In the attached image, you can see the data point at 100%, although the curve actually reaches ~110%.) Is this intentional?

Bill


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I've put an online copy of the help files here.


----------



## JohnM

The curves are plotted using cubic spline interpolation between data points. Whilst that is a reasonable representation, it is a purely graphical exercise rather than the band-limited interpolation that would be required to determine the response under the assumption that it is not under-sampled. I've mulled over whether to use the spline-interpolated value as the peak, but haven't made a decision yet.


----------



## laser188139

I don't think this is new with v5, but there is a little anomaly with the Sweeps parameter in the Measure dialog. With Start Freq, I can type in a new value, e.g., 30 instead of 10, immediately press Start Measuring, and the new value is accepted. With the Sweeps parameter, if I type in a new value, e.g, 4 instead of 1, and tab out of the field, the value reverts to 1. Apparently the only way to change the Sweeps value is with the up/down arrows, either via the mouse or by typing the arrows on the numeric keypad. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> With the Sweeps parameter, if I type in a new value, e.g, 4 instead of 1, and tab out of the field, the value reverts to 1. Apparently the only way to change the Sweeps value is with the up/down arrows, either via the mouse or by typing the arrows on the numeric keypad.


That is the behaviour of a spinner when displaying values from a list rather than a simple numeric value, the sweep length is the same. I'll change them both to combo boxes, which will allow the number of sweeps to be changed by using the number keys, but the sweep length will still need arrow keys or the mouse for changing the selection.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> I've seen errors with soundcard access on laptops intermittently (V4 or V5, both have the same audio interface handling), under XP and Vista, though very few. I will be looking at the audio interface handling so might figure something out when I get to that. The subsequent issues you encountered are likely consequences of the measurement not completing properly.


I went back and tested with my laptop on battery again. I don't know if you did anything in the audio interface handling, but my earlier symptoms of "Audio device error: 'Timed out waiting for soundcard buffer to empty.'" did not reappear. I tried both continuously on battery, then plugging in and unplugging between between measurements, with no problem. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I went back and tested with my laptop on battery again. I don't know if you did anything in the audio interface handling, but my earlier symptoms of "Audio device error: 'Timed out waiting for soundcard buffer to empty.'" did not reappear. I tried both continuously on battery, then plugging in and unplugging between between measurements, with no problem.


There have been some significant changes in the audio handling, though not with that particular issue in mind. Nice if it has been fixed as a side effect though


----------



## redmountain

JohnM said:


> Klaus, can you try selecting Java Sound Audio engine as the output device in the REW soundcard settings and see if it behaves the same way? Ditto for any other output devices listed there.


I've tested with build of 30.5.2010
Same distortion with Java soundengine... distortion starts @ -53dB and up

Thanks

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> I've tested with build of 30.5.2010
> Same distortion with Java soundengine... distortion starts @ -53dB and up


Klaus, I've uploaded a modified OS X build that has two check boxes in the soundcard settings to force big endian data, please try that one. The big endian output should cure the test tone, then need to try a loopback measurement and look at the scope plot to see if the input needs to be set to big endian also.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> I fixed that Sunday night as it happens, and also added Plus 360 and Minus 360 buttons to the overlay phase controls, stopped the Plus 360 and minus 360 buttons from shifting wrapped phase and modified phase unwrap to ensure unwrapped phase lies within -180...180 in the middle of the measurement range.


John, I am still verifying previous issues I reported. I came across your response here, and this explains the seemingly extreme behavior of unwrap phase in the new version. When you ensured the unwrapped phase is in the range -180...180 in the middle of the measurement range, you now use the measurement range considered linearly. In a simple case of a full range measure, 10Hz-20kHz, the unwrapped phase is centered at 10kHz, and the phase values range from 124000º at 10Hz to -82000º at 20kHz. The large phase values came from the measure being taken with the left channel for timing. 

Maybe because I was looking more at the sub range, I found the previous behavior of fixing the phase at the low end more convenient. 

My first idea was that it might be more helpful to the user to use the log of the measurement range, as this would center the phase in the display. But you are right, this would aggravate the problem of adjusting the range as it would be very biased toward one end in absolute value, and would take even longer to adjust to the other end. 

My second idea might be more helpful, though. It would be convenient if the phase unwrap centered based on the current display range instead of the measurement range. One could even make it so a wrap and another unwrap re-centered based on the new display range, but that's probably a lot more work, and might not work well if one is toggling a display between wrapped and unwrapped. 

Just an idea,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> It would be convenient if the phase unwrap centered based on the current display range instead of the measurement range. One could even make it so a wrap and another unwrap re-centered based on the new display range, but that's probably a lot more work, and might not work well if one is toggling a display between wrapped and unwrapped.


I think what might be needed is a button to shift the unwrapped phase so that it becomes visible in the middle of the viewed area with one click. I'll think about how I might do that.


----------



## redmountain

JohnM said:


> Klaus, I've uploaded a modified OS X build that has two check boxes in the soundcard settings to force big endian data, please try that one. The big endian output should cure the test tone, then need to try a loopback measurement and look at the scope plot to see if the input needs to be set to big endian also.


Thanks John, successfull !
Output has to be set to 'force big endian'
( not the input )
The soundcard ( left / right ) settings don't get saved, also not the 'loop back' setting
Where are these setting stored ?
Maybe I need to trash settings from previous versions ?

Thanks

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> The soundcard ( left / right ) settings don't get saved, also not the 'loop back' setting. Where are these setting stored ? Maybe I need to trash settings from previous versions ?


On Macs the preferences should be in your home directory at ~/Library/Preferences/, in a file whose name starts com.apple.java.util.prefs, though I haven't looked lately. I'll take a look at those settings tonight, odd for them not to be saved - the same (Java Preferences) mechanism is used on Windows and Mac, haven't noticed any problems on the Windows builds.

Edit: How are you closing down REW, many of the preferences are saved on exit.


----------



## redmountain

JohnM said:


> On Macs the preferences should be in your home directory at ~/Library/Preferences/, in a file whose name starts com.apple.java.util.prefs, though I haven't looked lately. I'll take a look at those settings tonight, odd for them not to be saved - the same (Java Preferences) mechanism is used on Windows and Mac, haven't noticed any problems on the Windows builds.
> 
> Edit: How are you closing down REW, many of the preferences are saved on exit.


Closing the REW window saves the state, thanks.
Closing 'mac-like' via menu or *apple+Q* doesn't...

I too think Apple shouldn't change so fast things... :rolleyesno:

Best

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

redmountain said:


> Closing the REW window saves the state, thanks.
> Closing 'mac-like' via menu or *apple+Q* doesn't...


I've made REW a bit more OS X-friendly, so the quit, about menu and preferences are accessed via the application menu or the usual OS X shortcuts and I've also added the file associations for .mdat and .req files, so double-clicking them opens REW (if not already open) and loads them, and they can be dragged onto the REW dock icon to open them. Those changes are in for the next build. Note that REW needs to be placed in the Applications folder for OS X to recognise the file associations.


----------



## redmountain

Thank you John !

Best

Klaus


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> It would be convenient if the phase unwrap centered based on the current display range instead of the measurement range. One could even make it so a wrap and another unwrap re-centered based on the new display range, but that's probably a lot more work, and might not work well if one is toggling a display between wrapped and unwrapped.


I've modified the phase unwrap behaviour so that unwrapped phase falls within -180..180 at the cursor frequency, pressing the unwrap button again at a different frequency will again offset the unwrapped phase (if necessary) so that it falls within -180..180 at the new cursor frequency. That seems to work fairly well.


----------



## laser188139

Cool. Thanks, 
Bill


----------



## atomik

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I try the last version of your beta but I can't take snapshot.

I have the dialog to choose the resolution and the filename. After I click on save but there is nothing saved...

It's on the linux version using:


java version "1.6.0_17"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea6 1.7.3) (suse-2.1.1-x86_64)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 14.0-b16, mixed mode)


If I can help more...


Thanks


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



atomik said:


> I try the last version of your beta but I can't take snapshot.


Please look in the REW log files (the location is shown in the help -> About box) and see if any errors have been logged.


----------



## atomik

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Sorry It works now...

In fact when I try in a directory with a short name it works... The directory which don't work is "measure_acoustic_REW" I try with another dir "test" and it's ok or in my home directory

I hope it can help you....


----------



## Chester

In the latest beta, the ability to add offset to the measurement appears to be lost... or perhaps I am just looking in the wrong place?


----------



## laser188139

Matt, you are probably looking in the wrong place. I was confused, too, the first time I looked for this as it has moved from v4. In the Overlays window, the SPL graph has controls for applying an offset. You can choose each measure individually, set the amount you want to offset the curve, and optionally add the offset to the underlying data itself.

Bill


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



atomik said:


> In fact when I try in a directory with a short name it works... The directory which don't work is "measure_acoustic_REW" I try with another dir "test" and it's ok or in my home directory


Must be specific to Linux I guess, that doesn't cause any issues on Windows.


----------



## Chester

Ahh I see that now, thank you Bill!


----------



## laser188139

John, in Bruce's note on the use of the Spectrum/RTA feature in REW v4, he included a picture of the Measure details showing the System Delay/System Distance when the left channel was used for timing. Where does REW v5 provide this information, when opening v4 files, or does it? I looked in the Info window, which seems to contain the other information v4 offered in the Details, but I don't see it there.

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, in Bruce's note on the use of the Spectrum/RTA feature in REW v4, he included a picture of the Measure details showing the System Delay/System Distance when the left channel was used for timing. Where does REW v5 provide this information, when opening v4 files, or does it? I looked in the Info window, which seems to contain the other information v4 offered in the Details, but I don't see it there.


It was removed as part of the V5 updates, though in retrospect I'm not clear why I removed it  so I'll restore it in the next build.


----------



## laser188139

Under v5, I loaded a Spectrum measure I took under v4. As this is on a different computer, naturally it pointed out that the soundcard/mic meter card might be incorrect. For a sweep measure, v5 gives me the option using the Change Cal button to browse and select the correct soundcard file. But for this spectrum measure, the Change Cal button is disabled. 

Is this a problem, that I need to select the correct soundcard file for accurate results to be displayed? Or is this correct behavior, that being a spectrum, there is no new processing of the data and so the soundcard cal file is not now needed? In which case, the warning message is a little misleading, in telling me to do something that I cannot do. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> Is this a problem, that I need to select the correct soundcard file for accurate results to be displayed? Or is this correct behavior, that being a spectrum, there is no new processing of the data and so the soundcard cal file is not now needed? In which case, the warning message is a little misleading, in telling me to do something that I cannot do.


The message should not be shown for measurements that do not have an IR, I've fixed it for the next build.


----------



## Vitaly

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Hi John,

I can't repeat that bug I reported on 'REW V5 Beta' page. So, I attached my old file where you can see it in action.

Open it and click on EQ button in the top right corner. In 'EQ for measurement' window, leave 'Predicted' curve only. Open 'EQ filters' window. Now, if you turn on/off the first filter, you will see that it effects whole curve i.e. it's like you turn on/off all filters simultaneously.

Also, in the Control window, I can't select 'No smoothing' option. Every time when I try, REW gives me 'Smooth 1/24'.

Thanks,
Vitaly.

P.S.Upload of file failed (tried 2 times).Is it because I'm a new member?


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Vitaly, see post #21 re the smoothing. You need a minimum number of posts to add attachments (5 or 10, can't recall which). You can use the post padding thread to make dummy posts, or you can email me the file at [email protected].


----------



## Vitaly

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Thanks John!

Please, check your e-mails.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Thanks for the file Vitaly, I've tracked that down and fixed it for the next build - it affected measurements which did not have an impulse response (such as an Average). I've also fixed a problem with smoothing not being applied to the predicted SPL for measurements without an IR.


----------



## Vitaly

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

You are welcome, John!

Vitaly.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I have updated the beta files today, see post #1 for details.

The major addition this time is Impedance measurement. I have also added code to register the .mdat and .req file associations, so REW will open if files of those types are double-clicked. It is now also possible to drag a .mdat file (or a group of files) onto REW and REW will load them. The OS X build is a bit more OS X-friendly and uses Cmd rather than Ctrl as the default shortcut accelerator.


----------



## JohnM

I have updated the beta files today, see post #1 for details.

The major addition this time is Impedance measurement. I have also added code to register the .mdat and .req file associations, so REW will open if files of those types are double-clicked. It is now also possible to drag a .mdat file (or a group of files) onto REW and REW will load them. The OS X build is a bit more OS X-friendly and uses Cmd rather than Ctrl as the default shortcut accelerator.


----------



## laser188139

John, I downloaded the new beta and observed in your beta history that Settings have become Preferences. 

I noticed that the pop-up help on mouse-over of the wrench "Preferences" icon still reports "Show/Hide Settings". When I looked in the Helpfile, the Contents still lists a chapter "Settings" with entries for Soundcard Settings and Mic/meter Settings.

Speaking of the Helpfile Table of Contents, I noticed under the Menus->Graph title that Apply 1/6 Octave Smoothing appears after Remove Smoothing, and that Apply 1/3 Octave Smooothing is so smooth it needs three o's. 

Cheers,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> Apply 1/3 Octave Smooothing is so smooth it needs three o's.


 Thanks Bill, fixed those.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ...Measurement .mdat and filter set .req files are associated with REW under OS X and Windows ...


I tried this under Windows Vista and, at least on my system, the .mdat file association is not getting made during installation. 

I uninstalled the 4.11 and 5.0beta versions, rebooted, and installed again. Double clicking on the .mdat file still brought up the Windows Vista dialog that no program was associated with the extension. 

Just in case, I uninstalled, rebooted, disabled Norton, and re-installed, still no joy. 

Drag-and-drop does work, of course. That's cool. And the installation under Windows XP is creating the association for the .mdat file. 

I'm wondering if this has something to do with my using period as a separator within the filenames. I went through the Windows Vista process of choosing a local program when double-clicking on one of my filenames. I checked the box saying always to use this program. Yet after closing REW, when I clicked on another filename, Windows Vista prompted me again for which program to use. 

When I copied one of my files and renamed it to include only one period, before the extension, and told Windows when it asked, to always use REW to open this type of file, that took. I was able to close REW, double-click on another file, and Vista started REW automatically. Of course, I may have now contaminated my system with a manual association, such that it is no longer a valid testbed for whether the install process creates the association. 

Bill


----------



## laser188139

It appears that REW locks onto its default device one time, perhaps upon startup or the first time it's used. With a SigmaTel internal laptop soundcard, I selected the S/PDIF as the default output device. Started up REW and in the Soundcard Preferences, the Check Levels procedure generates audio over the digital connection. During the same REW session, if under Windows I change the default device from digital to the analog headphone/speaker output and enter the Check Levels procedure again, the generated audio is over the digital connection even though the current default device is analog. 

If I explicitly change the output device to the analog Speaker/Headphone device, that works, the generated audio for Check Levels appears on the analog connection, and I can Measure using the analog connection. But if I return to Preferences and select the Default Device, REW still thinks it is the digital connection, even though Windows thinks it is the analog connection. 

I don't know if this is peculiar to one soundcard having two output modes. It may appear differently to REW were there two distinct soundcards, but it is seeing them as multiple choices through the Java sound engine. I don't know if this is really under the control of REW, though; it could be that the Java sound engine has locked onto one default device. 

I would think the impact would be more severe on new users of REW. They might assume the default device in REW is necessarily the default device in Windows, not realize they can get out of sync, and not go through the steps to diagnose what is happening. 

Bill


----------



## weeman

I know it was mentioned early on in this thread but I am having issues sending filters via midi to a FBQ2496. 

The FBQ2496 receives filters but they are completely different to the ones I am sending. I have setup the midi on the FBQ for channel 1 and enabled the 20 PEQ channels. Half the filters have the correct bandwidth and gain but the frequency is way off. Other filters are sent with 0 gain and some are just completely different.

The exact same setup works perfectly sending filters to a 1124p.

* Just noticed this was addressed in one of the later beta's. I will try the latest beta tonight and see if the problem is resolved.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I tried this under Windows Vista and, at least on my system, the .mdat file association is not getting made during installation.


That is a Vista permissions issue (likely the same on Win 7). If you look in the REW log file there will be an "access is denied" message when trying to create the registry key for the file associations. If you right click on the REW exe and select "run as administrator" it should work OK, I'll look at how that can be dealt with.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> It appears that REW locks onto its default device one time, perhaps upon startup or the first time it's used.


I think that is true for many programs, I seem to recall iTunes is the same, but I'll look at having REW detect changes to the default device settings.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ... Changed label of Transfer Function graph from "SPL & Phase" to "Magn & Phase" (could be showing impedance or SPL) ...


I understand what you are trying to do, to share one title between Impedance and SPL. (I've not had a chance to try the Impedance measurement process yet.) But for the titles of the graphs, when captured to .jpeg, it would be nice to be more specific. The previous "SPL & Phase" title clearly identified the units and what was being measured on the left axis. Unlike "SPL", "Magn" is not a commonly recognized abbreviation and leaves the reader, not familiar with REW, wondering what is being shown. It would be nice if the title were "SPL & Phase" for SPL curves, and perhaps "Impedance & Phase" for impedance curves. 

The same suggestion could be made for the Group Delay image when captured. GD is fine to label a tab within REW, but spelling it out as "Group Delay" would be nice in the title of an exported image that might be viewed in another context and by people unfamiliar with REW. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## atomik

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I can't run the new beta on linux (the old one works OK)

Here the error message:



> Error during startup
> 
> 
> Message:
> java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: com/apple/eawt/ApplicationListener
> Level:
> SEVERE
> Stack Trace:
> com/apple/eawt/ApplicationListener
> roomeqwizard.uA.I(Unknown Source)
> roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.main(Unknown Source)
> com.apple.eawt.ApplicationListener
> java.net.URLClassLoader$1.run(URLClassLoader.java:217)
> java.security.AccessController.doPrivileged(Native Method)
> java.net.URLClassLoader.findClass(URLClassLoader.java:205)
> java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:319)
> sun.misc.Launcher$AppClassLoader.loadClass(Launcher.java:294)
> java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClass(ClassLoader.java:264)
> java.lang.ClassLoader.loadClassInternal(ClassLoader.java:332)
> roomeqwizard.uA.I(Unknown Source)
> roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard.main(Unknown Source)



Thanks for help.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



atomik said:


> I can't run the new beta on linux (the old one works OK)


Sorry about that. Please copy the attached jar to the folder where you extracted the REW files. I'll patch the Linux zip but I won't be able to do that until Wednesday night.

Edit: removed the jar, it wasn't the problem, but the Linux download file has now been fixed.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

atomik, a corrected zip file for Linux has now been uploaded.


----------



## JohnM

I've changed the behaviour of the main measurement graph selection button to show "SPL & Phase" or "Impedance & Phase", and of the measured and predicted Overlay graphs to show either "SPL", "Impedance" or "SPL & Impedance" as appropriate. The overlay titles are getting rather long though, so I may rethink that.

I've also added longer screenshot titles for some of the graphs, including "Group Delay".


----------



## atomik

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Thanks, works with my laptop !

I'll try on my desktop tomorrow.


----------



## nid

I'm running REW in an Intel Macbook Pro with RME expresscard + Multiface 2. As with version 4, REW still can't get any input from RME and the output is only restricted to the first two devices (Output 1-2) when using Default Device or Java Sound Engine. In the same machine with Bootcamp XP, it all works fine! REW "sees" multichannel inputs and outputs of RME. It's a pity not to be able to use it on OSX...


----------



## JohnM

nid said:


> I'm running REW in an Intel Macbook Pro with RME expresscard + Multiface 2. As with version 4, REW still can't get any input from RME and the output is only restricted to the first two devices (Output 1-2) when using Default Device or Java Sound Engine. In the same machine with Bootcamp XP, it all works fine! REW "sees" multichannel inputs and outputs of RME. It's a pity not to be able to use it on OSX...


If you report that to Apple they may improve the JavaSound support in future updates.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

What should hopefully be the final beta before V5 is released has now been uploaded, details of the changes are in the first post of this thread.


----------



## JohnM

What should hopefully be the final beta before V5 is released has now been uploaded, details of the changes are in the first post of this thread.


----------



## GGA

Latest revision is marked 5.5.2010, but probably should be 5.7.2010.

John, thanks for all these updates and superb program.

George


----------



## JohnM

You have to scroll further down, 5.5.2010 was the first update - I probably should have put the updates in reverse order 

And you are very welcome


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> ... File associations under Windows are now set by the installer (which runs with Administrator privileges) to fix missing associations under Vista or Win7 ...


John, with the new version the symptoms are a little different, but effectively the same. It appears the new installer is creating the association under Windows Vista. But when I double click on the .mdat file, no program is started, or the program is immediately terminated. Even when I right click and use Open With, REW v5 shows up as the preferred program, I select it and press OK. Still no execution. 

As before, drag-and-drop does work. 



JohnM said:


> That is a Vista permissions issue (likely the same on Win 7). If you look in the REW log file there will be an "access is denied" message when trying to create the registry key for the file associations. If you right click on the REW exe and select "run as administrator" it should work OK, I'll look at how that can be dealt with.


With the new version, there is no "access denied" message in the REW log. I tried uninstalling, rebooting, and explicitly selecting "run as administrator" on the installer program. No joy. The key appears to be there, but the REW does not start. 

It's a puzzle,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> It's a puzzle


More of a mistake, a statement the wrong side of a bracket. Please download again and retry :doh:


----------



## laser188139

Bingo. The replacement version starts correctly when double clicking on the .mdat file. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## counsil

FYI, .mdat files are correctly associated to and open with REW v5 now on Windows 7 Ultimate...

A few questions...

1. I noticed that you are placing version 5 of REW in a new directory in Program Files now. Can both versions of REW (4.11 and 5.0) safely exist on the same computer? It seems that they both use the same registry entries for preferences, etc. Can you make it where version 5 has it's own registry entries?

2. Can you better explain how the "Set Target Level" works in the "Target Setting" area? How does it come up with this number. Even after I calibrate the SPL and set the target level to 75dB, the "Set Target Level" option always deviates from the target of 75dB. I like what it does, I'm just at a loss on how it all works.

3. This is silly, but I like the new icon (and startup picture) for REW v5, but I think the V5 is too big. I think it would look a lot cooler if it had a little smaller "v5" (or maybe "v5.0") under the large REW letters (directly below "REW" and right justified). I think it would be really cool if you could use a "real" spectrogram in the picture/icon. Mostly because I really like this new functionality!

I have more, but I can't find my notes.


----------



## counsil

I just remembered one more thing. When I saved my graph, it labeled it "Filter Adjust, no smoothing". I didn't apply any filters. Why is the "Filter Adjust" portion being written to the picture?


----------



## counsil

Is there a way to show the target curve on the first screen? I really miss that piece.


----------



## JohnM

counsil said:


> 1. I noticed that you are placing version 5 of REW in a new directory in Program Files now. Can both versions of REW (4.11 and 5.0) safely exist on the same computer? It seems that they both use the same registry entries for preferences, etc. Can you make it where version 5 has it's own registry entries?


I could, but I think it is better to stick with one set. If you open multiple copies of REW (of the same or different versions) then you get a "last one wins" situation on preference settings. Doesn't do any harm though.



> 2. Can you better explain how the "Set Target Level" works in the "Target Setting" area? How does it come up with this number. Even after I calibrate the SPL and set the target level to 75dB, the "Set Target Level" option always deviates from the target of 75dB. I like what it does, I'm just at a loss on how it all works.


It finds the level that minimises the mean squared error between target and the 1-octave smoothed response over a frequency span that depends on the speaker type.



> 3. This is silly, but I like the new icon (and startup picture) for REW v5, but I think the V5 is too big. I think it would look a lot cooler if it had a little smaller "v5" (or maybe "v5.0") under the large REW letters (directly below "REW" and right justified).


If the letters are not very large they are not visible at smaller icon sizes, and I was too lazy to make different versions for the different sizes  but I might change the splash screen version - how's this one?










> I think it would be really cool if you could use a "real" spectrogram in the picture/icon. Mostly because I really like this new functionality!


That is a real spectrogram, from a measurement made in the lounge of my old house.



counsil said:


> I just remembered one more thing. When I saved my graph, it labeled it "Filter Adjust, no smoothing". I didn't apply any filters. Why is the "Filter Adjust" portion being written to the picture?


That's the graph title, uncheck the box for the title to remove it.



counsil said:


> Is there a way to show the target curve on the first screen? I really miss that piece.


Sorry, that is now only on the Filter Adjust graph.


----------



## counsil

JohnM said:


> I could, but I think it is better to stick with one set. If you open multiple copies of REW (of the same or different versions) then you get a "last one wins" situation on preference settings. Doesn't do any harm though.


That's fine then. Just as long as each are compatible (i.e. making a preference change in one version won't adversely affect the other).



> It finds the level that minimises the mean squared error between target and the 1-octave smoothed response over a frequency span that depends on the speaker type.


I like this functionality. What usually causes the deviation from the target? Could you add the functionality to choose between changing the target level or moving the FR graph up/down?



> If the letters are not very large they are not visible at smaller icon sizes, and I was too lazy to make different versions for the different sizes  but I might change the splash screen version - how's this one?


I like it much better. Now I can better see the spectrogram. Now whether you use "V5.0", "v5.0", "5.0", or "5" is up to you. I personally like "5.0". The sizing is perfect though.



> That is a real spectrogram, from a measurement made in the lounge of my old house.


I can see that now!!!



> That's the graph title, uncheck the box for the title to remove it.


I thought I messed around with that setting. Good to know. Thanks.



> Sorry, that is now only on the Filter Adjust graph.


I should have taken the time to tell you the real reason why I like the target, mic, and soundcard info on the first screen. That screen makes for a better screen shot when I save the graph. The Filter Adjust graph is short and wide in comparsion. Maybe I have a setting wrong on the Filter Adjust screen? Here is what I am getting on the Filter Adjust screen...









I would rather the graph be the same portion as the first screen. I would also like to be able to allow the target level to stay at 75 dB, but have the graph automatically move up (using similar logic). Thoughts? Folks are just used to seeing 75 dB as the target.


----------



## laser188139

counsil said:


> ...
> I would rather the graph be the same portion as the first screen. I would also like to be able to allow the target level to stay at 75 dB, but have the graph automatically move up (using similar logic). Thoughts? Folks are just used to seeing 75 dB as the target.


You may not have yet discovered the tiny minimize-up and minimize-down buttons at the left of the separator bar on the EQ screen. These can make the bottom graph disappear, so only the SPL graph is visible and it will have proportions similar to the primary SPL graph. The separator bar itself can be dragged up and down. You can adjust the overall shape by dragging on a corner to adjust the shape of the entire EQ screen.

It's time consuming, but you can accomplish what you describe with the target by using the Set Target Level to calculate the average level, figure out the difference from 75.0dB, go back into the primary Measurement view and use its Control to set an offset and then Add offset to data, then go back into the EQ screen and perform the Set Target Level again. It should come out very near 75.0dB. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

Pic didn't show up, but the horizontal divider between the two screens on the EQ window can be dragged up and down to change the proportions, or either graph can be hidden completely by clicking the little black triangles at the left side of the divider. 



> I would also like to be able to allow the target level to stay at 75 dB, but have the graph automatically move up (using similar logic).


Sorry, don't understand what you mean by this. The measurement can be shifted by using the offset control on the SPL & Phase graph, that control could be added to the Filter Adjust graph.


----------



## counsil

JohnM said:


> Pic didn't show up, but the horizontal divider between the two screens on the EQ window can be dragged up and down to change the proportions, or either graph can be hidden completely by clicking the little black triangles at the left side of the divider.


I think I fixed the pic (it looks good on my side anyway). _JM Edit: I fixed the image in the original post_



> Sorry, don't understand what you mean by this. The measurement can be shifted by using the offset control on the SPL & Phase graph, that control could be added to the Filter Adjust graph.


That is exactly what I am wanting... a way to keep the target at 75dB, but utilize your algorithm for "Set Target Level" (which you explained how I could achieve that in a couple posts back). A button to do it automagically would be AWESOME!


----------



## JohnM

counsil said:


> That is exactly what I am wanting... a way to keep the target at 75dB, but utilize your algorithm for "Set Target Level" (which you explained how I could achieve that in a couple posts back). A button to do it automagically would be AWESOME!


I don't think it would be a good idea. The actual level of the measurement can be important information, particularly when comparing measurements of sub and mains or speaker to speaker, moving measurement levels around too readily could cause confusion.


----------



## counsil

JohnM said:


> I don't think it would be a good idea. The actual level of the measurement can be important information, particularly when comparing measurements of sub and mains or speaker to speaker, moving measurement levels around too readily could cause confusion.


Agreed.

How is it that I calibrated the SPL to 75 dB, had a target of 75 dB, measured just my subs (mains disconnected), and achieved a "Set Target Curve" of 73.1 SPL? That is what I am struggling with. But I believe you answered my question... its just the way the algorithm works based on the in-room response (obviously not perfectly flat at 75dB). Correct? I must have had more data points below 75 dB than above it???


----------



## laser188139

I'm sure John will elaborate, but I noticed the same thing. What I think is happening is that the SPL level calibration uses band limited pink noise, e.g., 500Hz-2000Hz for the mains, with a rolloff beyond that. So it is highly sensitive to the level between the band limits, and not very sensitive outside that band. For purposes of equalization, I expect the Set Target Level is looking at a much wider range, without this weighting toward the center of the band. This makes sense, if one wants the Target Level set to give the "best" average level to avoid extreme peaks/dips when the filters are generated. 

I've looked back and I've not yet taken a measurement of REW's main speaker calibration spectrum, just the sub; otherwise I would post the picture. 

Bill


----------



## counsil

I agree with you Bill, but I used the "subwoofer" tones to calibrate the SPL, not the "speaker" tones... :huh:


----------



## laser188139

I suspect it is similar with the sub, that the Set Target Level looks all the way down to the lowest frequency in the sweep or the LF cutoff, where the sub pink noise used to set the SPL has its rolloff points at 30Hz and 80Hz. I loaded one of my sub measures, which I had calibrated during measurement to 75dB, and tried Set Target Level; it calculated the level as 73.0dB. Then I tried raising the LF Cutoff from the default 10Hz to 25Hz. This time, Set Target Level calculated 74.7dB.


----------



## counsil

Again, I agree with you Bill, but I would have hoped that below the natural roll-off of the sub wouldn't be in the calculation/algorithm of the "Set Target Level" functionality.

Determining the natural roll-off of a sub is very hard to do though, especially when a large dip enters the equation. Another "issue" (or miscalculation) could easily occur when uncalibrated mics are used (such as the RatShack meter). The very low frequencies like 12Hz and below are very often heavily exaggerated.

Without getting out the old Ratshack meter and testing, I don't have any hard proof...


----------



## JohnM

The function to set target level ignores everything below 20Hz (or sweep start if higher).


----------



## 300Z

The link to download the file for the Linux version of REW v5 is broken...


----------



## JohnM

300Z said:


> The link to download the file for the Linux version of REW v5 is broken...


Now fixed.


----------



## 300Z

Thank you very much.


----------



## laser188139

John, in the new version something has changed in the file type handling in the File Open/File Save dialogs. I noticed, when saving a jpeg image, that the file save dialog defaults to show files with any file extension, not just the .jpg/.jpeg files. Similarly, when I try to choose a soundcard for an old, v4 .mdat file, the dialog prompts with all filenames, not just the .cal/.frd files. Was this deliberate? Or accidental? I found the previous behavior less error prone, as it gave me a choice of only the files that were reasonable, instead of doing something stupid like clicking on a .mdat file when I was trying to select a calibration file. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, in the new version something has changed in the file type handling in the File Open/File Save dialogs.


Still works the way it used to for me...:dontknow:


----------



## zoomer

I tried to use the overlay option to overlay two waterfalls in the "Controls" section of the Waterfall display and it worked once initially. However when I chose "no overlays" the waterfall turned into what looks like a big block of overlayed squares (to the extent of the dB and range limits). I quit the program and restarted it, loaded up my previously saved results, and when I generate the waterfalls, I still got the "squares".

Then I went to the "Limits" options and when I incremented and decremented (or vice versa) each limit, the display returned to normal. And on restart, it was all normal again.

I was unable to reproduce this. It happened only. But if it happens again, I'll post again.

And BTW: thanks for this remarkably useful program!!


----------



## Chester

Hey John! things are looking great (as usual) with the beta; I was reading your information regarding what is and what isn't minimum phase in the measurement, perhaps it would be possible to have some sort of 'indicator' where the signal is and isn't minimum phase, like where it isn't it could highlight red (or maybe it could fade from black to red, the 'closer' to minimum phase things are).

As always, thank you for all of your hard work!


----------



## JohnM

Chester said:


> perhaps it would be possible to have some sort of 'indicator' where the signal is and isn't minimum phase, like where it isn't it could highlight red (or maybe it could fade from black to red, the 'closer' to minimum phase things are).


An indication of min phase is on my todo list, though I haven't decided what kind of indication to show yet.


----------



## fastuc

Hi,

thanks a lot for the good work: rew5 same to be very rock !

i'm trying on osx snow leopard 10.6.4

my problem is about the configuration of the input signals: when I use the measure mic on my maudio firewire 1814 i can't select the correct input source (i can have 16 different inputs) and finally i've no signal.
Driver works good because with other software i can select without problems.
I can try to use only input 1 or input 2, but no signal.

any ideas?

sorry for my bad english (i'm italian)

Riccardo


----------



## JohnM

Hello Riccardo, there are problems using REW (or other Java apps) with firewire cards under OS X. Output works OK but input appears not to work for many people. You can try setting the inputs you want to use as the default using the Mac's audio/midi setup, do that before starting REW. Then leave the REW soundcard input settings set to "default device".


----------



## Iain Apple

John,

I have a small issue in Build 1933. In the SPL/Phase Window, the bottom of the control panel vanishes when the scrollbar is enabled.

Iain.


----------



## JohnM

Iain Apple said:


> In the SPL/Phase Window, the bottom of the control panel vanishes when the scrollbar is enabled.


Yes, noticed that a couple of days ago, I've altered the controls to reduce the height. As an aside, you can also turn off the text labels under the toolbar buttons to gain a bit more height for the graph, see the View preferences.


----------



## nid

JohnM said:


> Hello Riccardo, there are problems using REW (or other Java apps) with firewire cards under OS X. Output works OK but input appears not to work for many people. You can try setting the inputs you want to use as the default using the Mac's audio/midi setup, do that before starting REW. Then leave the REW soundcard input settings set to "default device".


With RME expresscard (not even firewire!) on OSX 10.6.4 there is input but it somehow "comes and goes" like oscillating. Of course the measurements are useless. So I'm still forced to work REW on Windows bootcamp side. Thankfully there it rocks! :dumbcrazy::dumbcrazy::dumbcrazy:


----------



## laser188139

counsil said:


> ... How is it that I calibrated the SPL to 75 dB, had a target of 75 dB, measured just my subs (mains disconnected), and achieved a "Set Target Curve" of 73.1 SPL? That is what I am struggling with. But I believe you answered my question... its just the way the algorithm works based on the in-room response (obviously not perfectly flat at 75dB). Correct? I must have had more data points below 75 dB than above it???


Doug, I've given some more thought to your question and done a few experiments. Here's what I think we're seeing. 

Set Target Curve is a simple curve-fitting average. This would be a linear least-squares fit, except in our case the curve is not linear but rather the target curve with its high and low end rolloffs. As its values, it uses the SPL values in dB that we see in the graph. 

SPL itself is an average of the square of the sound pressure, converted to a log representation as dB. In the wikipedia article on Sound Pressure, where it has a formula for multiple sources, imagine that our frequency response curve gives us a measurement at hundreds of sources, one for each individual frequency in the sweep. The net effect of the exponentiation is to give a greater weight to the higher values. 

In playing with one of my sub measurements, if I compare a simple average of the SPL values to the SPL represented by an average of the squared sound pressure values, I see the simple average is lower by 0.5-1.0dB. Obviously this is data dependent, but it might explain the nearly 2 dB difference you saw. 

Since the purpose of the Set Target Level is to establish a starting point for equalization, the simple average gives a better result. The peaks and valleys should be reasonably equal in height as dB. If it instead calculated a "true" SPL value, this would give smaller peaks and deeper dips, just the opposite of what we want when using an external equalizer. 

As always, I'm sure John will correct me if I'm all wet.

Bill


----------



## Chester

I keep getting told my REW is an old version (it is beta 3), however every time I try and download the new version, it seems to still be beta 3... Is the link the incorrect link or something? I have also downloaded a copy from proaudioshack, which has not helped either.

Thanks!


----------



## JohnM

Check which version of REW you are starting, the newest beta installs to "Room EQ Wizard V5" rather than "Room EQ Wizard". Beta 4 is the latest.


----------



## JimP

John,
Doesn't REW go out and check for the latest version each time its launched?


----------



## JohnM

JimP said:


> Doesn't REW go out and check for the latest version each time its launched?


Yes, but with the last Beta REW gets installed to the intended final destination for the release version, rather than the previous location used for V4, so the previous beta can still be present on the PC and will continue to remind of the presence of a newer version if it is run.


----------



## willeggleston

*Re: REW V5 Beta*

Good Morning,

First of all I am new to REW forum so please excuse the ignorance factor if it appears high.

I have recently installed REWV5 on my appleiBook (PPC) that runs either OSX Tiger or Leopard depending on what have selected as my startup disk.

In order to have JAVA 1.5 running I must go with Leopard.

I plug in my USB Audio device and it is recognized in my MAC System Prefs - it is also available on the Audio/MIDI Utility.

My question is why is not shown on the pull-down menu in REW?

If I select Default (the only other listing is Java device), the noise that comes out is pretty much hash..

So what am I doing that is wrong?

Will


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta*

For PowerPC, check the box for Big-Endian output data in the REW soundcard preferences, that should provide correct audio. 

Note: I'll move these posts to the REW V5 beta feedback thread.


----------



## willeggleston

*Re: REW V5 Beta*

OK, I did that, and the sweeps now are generated, but the displayed value of the headroom during the sweep acquisition is rather low (-52dB) and the actual sweep is very loud. In addition the Headroom dialog box appears before the sweep is actually generated. Message displayed says Very Low Signal Level.

The USB Codec still does not come up (in the pull-down menu) in the REW soundcard preferences window., so I can't make any mixer adjustments...
Quite different behavior to the PC version. The resulting FFT is close except for the LF area, below a 100Hz.
will


----------



## JohnM

Apple's JavaSound implementation is fairly minimal, so you pretty much need to set the device you want to use as the default in Audio/Midi setup, control volumes from the sliders there and leave REW set to use default device for input and output. You can use the REW sweep level control for fine tuning output level once the device volume slider is in the right range.


----------



## willeggleston

Last question, then I'm off to the races...

What can I expect with Snow Leopard on Intel platform...?

Same stuff?

Will Eggleston
Genelec Inc.


----------



## JohnM

willeggleston said:


> What can I expect with Snow Leopard on Intel platform...? Same stuff?


Probably, though I've not updated my dev platform yet so can't say that for sure. Under Snow Leopard you get JRE 6, but the JavaSound implementation is likely to be the same for JRE 5 and JRE 6.


----------



## willeggleston

I'll poke around some more...I'm still baffled as to how REW attepts to calculate the Headroom before the sweeps actually come out.
Thanks for the support...I know this stuff doesn't come easy.

will eggleston
Genelec Inc.


----------



## JohnM

willeggleston said:


> I'm still baffled as to how REW attepts to calculate the Headroom before the sweeps actually come out.


The headroom figure is based on the input level, so the info is available as soon as REW starts listening on the input - also bear in mind the sweep starts at a very low frequency (depending on sweep settings) so it can take a while until it reaches frequencies that are audible.



> Thanks for the support


You're welcome


----------



## willeggleston

After a bit noodling around, I see quite a bit of difference between MAC and PC frequency plots.

The PC responses are quite similar to my WINMLS program that we have been using for many years, and the MAC responses are quite a bit different. much less energy displayed below 100Hz and a steep roll-off after 10kHz. The mic calibration file is the same between platforms, and I am using the same Genelec USB soundcard.
Thanks in advance.

Will


----------



## JohnM

willeggleston said:


> After a bit noodling around, I see quite a bit of difference between MAC and PC frequency plots.
> 
> The PC responses are quite similar to my WINMLS program that we have been using for many years, and the MAC responses are quite a bit different. much less energy displayed below 100Hz and a steep roll-off after 10kHz. The mic calibration file is the same between platforms, and I am using the same Genelec USB soundcard.
> Thanks in advance.


Best confirm that the input is actually coming from the Genelec card, on some Macs the built-in mic seems to be active even if not selected as default input.


----------



## willeggleston

Isn't that special?

On the MAC System Preferences, the internal mic on the bezel is NOT active, and the mic through the Genelec Soundcard IS active ...simple tapping reveals this via the sound preferences meter on that page.

The Audio MIDI page has the USB codec selected as the default.

The REW Preferences has Default selected.

When I go to Measure on REW it appears that the Genelec Soundcard and the mic plugged into it is ignored and the mic on the display bexel is now the active one. This is shown by tapping on the bezel and seeing the deflection on the REW meters...

Someone is not shaking hands very well.

I guess the next move is to install this on the MINI-MAC and see what happens.

Thanks again,

Will Eggleston
Genelec Inc.


----------



## JohnM

Will, can you please let me know the version of OS X and Java on the PPC machine where internal mic is being fed to REW so I can report it to Apple.


----------



## hmx

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*

First wanna say thanx for this software, its fantastic!
Is it possible to make more than 20 measurements within 1 file?
(At least with my OSX version seems not to be possible)


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



hmx said:


> Is it possible to make more than 20 measurements within 1 file?


The limit is set to 20, though that is somewhat arbitrary and more of a practical than a theoretical limitation. Can you explain how many you would like to see and under what circumstances?


----------



## hmx

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



JohnM said:


> The limit is set to 20, though that is somewhat arbitrary and more of a practical than a theoretical limitation. Can you explain how many you would like to see and under what circumstances?


Thank u for fast answering!
I personally would prefer no limit, coming with additional scroll bar,
and maybe default de-selected measurements in the overlays window, when u open it,
instead of all selected.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



hmx said:


> and maybe default de-selected measurements in the overlays window, when u open it,
> instead of all selected.


Note that you can right-click in the legend area of the overlay to clear or set all trace selections.


----------



## hmx

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



JohnM said:


> Note that you can right-click in the legend area of the overlay to clear or set all trace selections.


Wow, this helps! Thank u very much!


----------



## kflory

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



JohnM said:


> Note that you can right-click in the legend area of the overlay to clear or set all trace selections.


Wow! Thanks! I will use that all the time now that I know it's there. :rubeyes:

I would also find the ability to have more than 20 in one file useful. 

I am bi-amping and have been using it to tune my crossovers. 

In a typical session for me I will capture:

 background noise via RTA, may take a couple

 baselines (session starting point/data)

all channels (both left+right and both high+low)

low only, high only

left only, left low only, left high

right only, right low only, right high

So by this point I can already be at 10, then start tweaking/experimenting and hit 20 quickly.

Any increase would be nice, 50 would be great (virtually unlimited to me).

A couple of other feature suggestions/request that I have are:

1) It would be nice if the overlay selection was preserved selection across sessions

2) It would be nice if there was an option to not display warnings at start-up (i.e.: don't show again check box):

 No input mixer available...

 The sample rate of this soundcard calibration...
I have a netbook I used with an external sound card for taking the measurements, but do a lot of analysis on a desktop system (which of course I was not used when taking the measurements. It is a minor annoyance having to click through these each time I open REW, certainly a small price to pay for such a great tool).


----------



## willeggleston

Java version is 1.5.0
The System Profiler says the iBook G4 is running 10.5.0(117)

That's about all I can report.

Will


----------



## laser188139

laser188139 said:


> John, in the new version something has changed in the file type handling in the File Open/File Save dialogs. I noticed, when saving a jpeg image, that the file save dialog defaults to show files with any file extension, not just the .jpg/.jpeg files. Similarly, when I try to choose a soundcard for an old, v4 .mdat file, the dialog prompts with all filenames, not just the .cal/.frd files. Was this deliberate? Or accidental? I found the previous behavior less error prone, as it gave me a choice of only the files that were reasonable, instead of doing something stupid like clicking on a .mdat file when I was trying to select a calibration file. ...





JohnM said:


> Still works the way it used to for me...:dontknow:


I went back and re-installed version 4.11, which I had uninstalled while doing other testing. Under 4.11, when opening a soundcard/mic calibration file, the file open dialog showed only .cal files. Graph -> Save graph as jpeg showed only .jpeg/.jpg files. File -> Open measurement file showed only .mdat files. 

Under the current v5 version, the dialogs all seem to prompt for All file types (*.*) with no choice of more restricted sets. I've not yet gone back to earlier v5 betas; this may have been the case all along with v5, and I just did not mention it earlier. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

Bill, in the file dialogs do you see the preview pane that shows what measurements are in a file? I noticed yesterday that the option to show a Mac-style file dialog under OS X was unintentionally active under Windows also, which would give a conventional Windows-style file dialog. If that is the issue I've fixed it for the next release.


----------



## laser188139

No. I do not see the preview window that I used to see under 4.11. So, yes, it sounds like you have fixed the anomaly I was seeing. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## kflory

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



kflory said:


> A couple of other feature suggestions/request that I have are...


Forgot to include...

3) It would be nice if on the overlay dialog, when the cursor is over a specific measurement, if you could see the notes for the measurement (i.e. pop-up).


----------



## hmx

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



kflory said:


> F
> 3) It would be nice if on the overlay dialog, when the cursor is over a specific measurement, if you could see the notes for the measurement (i.e. pop-up).


Excellent idea imo ... also would be helpful, 
to have the possibility of giving longer names to single measurements - every additional character appreciated!


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



kflory said:


> 3) It would be nice if on the overlay dialog, when the cursor is over a specific measurement, if you could see the notes for the measurement (i.e. pop-up).


Good idea, I've included that in the next beta.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



hmx said:


> also would be helpful, to have the possibility of giving longer names to single measurements - every additional character appreciated!


There is something of a compromise to be struck there, as longer names take up more room in the legend panel and short names end up with a big gap between the name and the value. I'll allow longer names for the next beta, up to around 20 characters (depending on which characters, the limit is on the overall string length in the font used) and see if there are any complaints.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



kflory said:


> 2) It would be nice if there was an option to not display warnings at start-up (i.e.: don't show again check box):
> 
> No input mixer available...
> 
> The sample rate of this soundcard calibration...
> I have a netbook I used with an external sound card for taking the measurements, but do a lot of analysis on a desktop system (which of course I was not used when taking the measurements. It is a minor annoyance having to click through these each time I open REW, certainly a small price to pay for such a great tool).


I have added an option in the View settings to suppress soundcard error messages, see if that works. Re the sample rate warnings, those should go away if you just clear the soundcard cal file, no need to load it on the desktop system if you are not making measurements.


----------



## kflory

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*



JohnM said:


> Good idea, I've included that in the next beta.





JohnM said:


> I have added an option in the View settings to suppress soundcard error messages, see if that works. Re the sample rate warnings, those should go away if you just clear the soundcard cal file, no need to load it on the desktop system if you are not making measurements.


Thanks!


----------



## JohnM

I have uploaded another beta release, available in the usual spot - there were a few too many changes to make this the final V5.0 release without further testing. The main addition is a Modal Analysis feature that can be found in the EQ Window, it is explained in the EQ Window help (in REW and online here). I expect it may prompt a few questions, so I'll defer further comment for now. Details of the changes in this release are in the first post of this thread.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

I have uploaded another beta release, available in the usual spot - there were a few too many changes to make this the final V5.0 release without further testing. The main addition is a Modal Analysis feature that can be found in the EQ Window, it is explained in the EQ Window help (in REW and online here). I expect it may prompt a few questions, so I'll defer further comment for now. Details of the changes in this release are in the first post of this thread.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> Bill, in the file dialogs do you see the preview pane that shows what measurements are in a file? I noticed yesterday that the option to show a Mac-style file dialog under OS X was unintentionally active under Windows also, which would give a conventional Windows-style file dialog. If that is the issue I've fixed it for the next release.





laser188139 said:


> No. I do not see the preview window that I used to see under 4.11. So, yes, it sounds like you have fixed the anomaly I was seeing. ...


In the newest version, I have verified that the Windows-style file dialogs now appear.


----------



## masswork

Hi John,
first i would like to say thanks for this very good software! :T

I do have question though:
In the EQ page, if we choose "generic", why there's a limit in which frequency range we want to EQ?
(That is filter task match range 10-499 and 11-10000).

Can it just allow any frequency (20-20k) for both of the inputs?

Thanks,
Rizal


----------



## JohnM

masswork said:


> In the EQ page, if we choose "generic", why there's a limit in which frequency range we want to EQ? (That is filter task match range 10-499 and 11-10000). Can it just allow any frequency (20-20k) for both of the inputs?


Hi Rizal, I'll modify the lower limit so that it can cover the range up the higher limit, but the 10kHz limit is there because it is usually not a good idea to be applying EQ that far up (5kHz is probably a sensible upper limit for automatic EQ). Measurements can be somewhat misleading and variable at high frequencies and EQ might be applied that would not be appropriate - for example, at typical listening distances there will be a gradual downward slope at HF that is a result of the combined direct and reflected sound, applying EQ to make that flat would give an incorrect boost to the direct sound . Of course there is no limit on applying EQ manually.


----------



## Ilkka

Hi John,

Just installed the newest V5. Feels very good.  Just one thing is still bugging me, actually has since the very first V5 beta.

Could the overlays window be included in the main window (similar to V4's 'All measurements') instead of a separate window? At least for that's the most important and the most basic window when taking measurements. Now I need to hop in between the main and overlays windows all the time. Very frustrating.

Yes, having the overlays window separated keeps things tidier and in order, but I would very much like to have at least an SPL overlay button/window in the main window if not all of them.


----------



## JohnM

Ilkka said:


> Could the overlays window be included in the main window (similar to V4's 'All measurements') instead of a separate window? At least for that's the most important and the most basic window when taking measurements. Now I need to hop in between the main and overlays windows all the time. Very frustrating.


Sorry, no can do, but I'll give some thought to what might be done in the future. Could try a bigger monitor so the windows are both visible...


----------



## counsil

JohnM said:


> Sorry, no can do, but I'll give some thought to what might be done in the future. Could try a bigger monitor so the windows are both visible...


I agree with Ilkka; I really do miss the one screen design. I knew it wouldn't be an easy task to revert back to the old design so I never bothered to mention it. I am still hoping that it will grow on me and become second nature like v4.

I haven't tested the latest Beta yet. I will try to do that this week (or over the weekend). You made a lot of changes that I want to test out before you build the final product.


----------



## DanTheMan

FWIW John, I like the new set up. Change is always difficult especially if you've had a long time to get used to what you are doing. I still use both versions, but the more I find I can do in V5, the more I like it. I have found that I am generally more efficient with v4, but that's changing as I get used to where things are now. Soon I won't use v4 at all, but I'll keep it around for nostalgia and even visit it from time to time I bet.

Dan


----------



## JohnM

One thing worth keeping up to date with is the keyboard shortcuts, all listed in the help, good time savers. I have an idea for a way to help with the overlays side of things, but not sure when I'll be able to try it.


----------



## maxmercy

John,

I cannot tell you how much you have helped people acheive better audio through the creation and continued development of this software....

I have a few questions (some of which may have already been answered):

Would it be possible to calculate distortion as a measurement sweep is being performed (like some of Ilkka's graphs), with the right y-axis showing % distortion (just as phase is usually done) so that we can see when we are driving a subwoofer too hard, and at what frequency a highpass filter would best limit that distortion, if necessary?

Also, in the tone generator, would it be possible to include toneburst signals?


Thanks,

JSS


----------



## counsil

I too would like to see you come up with some kind of "standard" distortion graph(s) as well.

Possibilities...
1. First and foremost, I'd like to see a distortion graph as an outcome of a sweep. I know this has already been discussed before.
2. Run a series of tones and output a bar graph (or table) depicting all the results.
3. Maybe something easier would be to run a series of tones and output multiple graphs, but provide a legend clearly depicting distortion percentages.

Just some random thoughts...


----------



## JohnM

Both distortion measurements and signal generator enhancements are on the development list, but they will not be in the initial V5.0 release.


----------



## maxmercy

Looking forward to it!

JSS


----------



## kflory

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - number of measurements*

Hi John,



JohnM said:


> I have added an option in the View settings to suppress soundcard error messages, see if that works. Re the sample rate warnings, those should go away if you just clear the soundcard cal file, no need to load it on the desktop system if you are not making measurements.


I gave this a spin, but still get the following error message reported:









If the solution is obvious great, but if this is a pain to debug I certainly understand not pursing/dropping.

I kind of feel stupid now :blink:, but with removing the .cal file, I can just put a dummy plug in the mic input to get the sound card to not return the error.

Thanks either way!


----------



## JohnM

Kevin, just to check: you did select the option to suppress soundcard errors then restarted REW and still got the error message?


----------



## kflory

JohnM said:


> Kevin, just to check: you did select the option to suppress soundcard errors then restarted REW and still got the error message?


Yes. :scratch:

I did not see anything of interest in the logfile, but let me know if there is anything I can do to help debug


----------



## JohnM

I'll look into it. One thing that might be interesting to see is the soundcard debug files with and without the dummy plug in the mic input, curious to know what is going on there - almost seems as if the soundcard is claiming not to have an input if nothing is plugged into it.


----------



## kflory

JohnM said:


> One thing that might be interesting to see is the soundcard debug files with and without the dummy plug in the mic input, curious to know what is going on there - almost seems as if the soundcard is claiming not to have an input if nothing is plugged into it.


When you say "soundcard debug files" are you referring to something REW generates or something from the driver? 

Happy to provide, but not sure where/what to look for. 

This particular system in Vista by the way and the audio is an on-board Sigmatel 9227. Currently has the MS drivers loaded (vs. Dell/Sigmatel drivers) which I could try switching to resolve my issue, but would may go away then then not help debug the option in REW.


----------



## JohnM

Sorry, yes, there is a button on the soundcard settings page to generate the debug file.


----------



## masswork

JohnM said:


> Hi Rizal, I'll modify the lower limit so that it can cover the range up the higher limit, but the 10kHz limit is there because it is usually not a good idea to be applying EQ that far up (5kHz is probably a sensible upper limit for automatic EQ). Measurements can be somewhat misleading and variable at high frequencies and EQ might be applied that would not be appropriate - for example, at typical listening distances there will be a gradual downward slope at HF that is a result of the combined direct and reflected sound, applying EQ to make that flat would give an incorrect boost to the direct sound . Of course there is no limit on applying EQ manually.


That's terrific! Must be helpful for bi-amp users.
Agree on high-freq EQ stuff too.

Thank you so much John!


----------



## kflory

JohnM said:


> Sorry, yes, there is a button on the soundcard settings page to generate the debug file.


:doh: I should have figured that out. I associated that this with the sound check.

Anyway, attached below, should be self explanatory, but:

soundcard_debug-wolinein.txt - without line-in plug
soundcard_debug-wlinein.txt - with line-in plug


----------



## JohnM

Thanks Kevin. It seems the soundcard does indeed claim not to have any inputs if nothing is plugged in.


----------



## laser188139

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - help file printing*

John, I don't know if this is in code you can access, or if it is buried in a Java library you are using. 

1) I open up the helpfile, select Impedance Measurement, the press Print. With the default selection of All, pages 1 thru 6 are printed. So far, so good. Six pages are printed. 

2) Still selecting the Impedance Measurement section, I press Print. I now change it to print Pages 1 thru 1. Still good so far, one page is printed. 

3) Still selecting the Impedance Measurement section, I again press Print. I change the option back to print All pages. Now only one page is printed, even though I asked it to print all the pages. The one page printed shows in the heading that it is Impedance Measurement 1/6. 

This behavior persists, even if I close and re-open the Help window. 

If I now select a different section, e.g., Measurements Panel, and ask it to print All the pages, it still prints only one page, this time page 1 of 4. 

Curious, eh?

Thanks,
Bill

P.S. In the article on Impedance Measurement, on the first page where the warning in red appears, at least in the print version it appears there is no space between "most accurate results, but" and "great care must be taken".
Ditto, bottom page 2, no space between "see the response and" and "End Freq". 
Page 3, no space between "Pressing" and "Cancel while the pink noise". No space between "about the measurement appears in the" and "Measurement Panel", and extra space at the end of the hyperlink "Measurement Panel ". 
Page 4, no space before the bold sentence beginning "N.B. both soundcard inputs".


----------



## JohnM

Those are all OK in the displayed html file, so looks like they are artefacts of the print driver (omitting spaces when the html FONT tag is used). The helpfiles are displayed by JavaHelp 2.0, a library from Sun. since Sun's acquisition by Oracle there is an Oracle replacement, I'll look into moving to that at some point.


----------



## kflory

Hi John,

I noticed that the tool tip for the selections in the Overlays window does not show the comment in the ETC and RT60 views. Not sure if it is a limitation or a bug.


----------



## GGA

SPL & Phase graph.
Near the bottom it shows the Name of the file being displayed.
Would it be possible to also include the Number of the file, like you do in the Overlays window? With many files available I think it is easier to look for a number rather than a name.
Thanks,
George


----------



## JohnM

kflory said:


> I noticed that the tool tip for the selections in the Overlays window does not show the comment in the ETC and RT60 views. Not sure if it is a limitation or a bug.


I've fixed that Kevin, thanks.



GGA said:


> SPL & Phase graph.
> Near the bottom it shows the Name of the file being displayed.
> Would it be possible to also include the Number of the file, like you do in the Overlays window? With many files available I think it is easier to look for a number rather than a name.


It is certainly possible George, but I've not done that because it uses some of the space that is otherwise available for the measurement name and there have already been requests for more room for the name. Unlike the overlays window, in the main window the measurement list is right next to the graph and the currently selected measurement stands out clearly, so I think there would be more lost than gained by putting the number in there.


----------



## laser188139

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - Overlay view of impedance*

Hello, John. I finally got around to building a jig to measure impedance. There is something a little weird about the Set Graph Axis Limits control on the Overlay view. If, for the right hand Y ohms axis, I set the limits to 0 - 30 and apply the settings, the graph scales to 4 - 28 ohms. If I change the upper limit to 24 ohms, the Y axis is 2 - 26 until I press Apply Settings, at which point it goes to 0 - 24. If I now change the upper limit to 40 ohms, the Y axis now shows 0 - 60 ohms. 

I am guessing this is all a consequence of choosing some integer value to use for the scale lines, shared between the left and right Y axes. 

It is curious,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - Overlay view of impedance*



laser188139 said:


> I am guessing this is all a consequence of choosing some integer value to use for the scale lines, shared between the left and right Y axes.


Yes, it is the compromise you end up with when sharing one set of gridlines for 2 axes and keeping sensible intervals for both axes. The left hand axis is treated as the primary, so the right hand values get tweaked to fit.


----------



## AudioMagic

There are several features I think would make REW V5 even more user friendly -

1. It would be nice if the file name of the current measurement set was displayed somewhere on the GUI.
2. It would be very helpful if the most recently used files were listed under the File menu, so you could just click and go.
3. It would save a lot of time if once the various graphs were generated they could be saved in the measurement file set so they wouldn't have to be generated again.

Just my two cents worth. Otherwise, I'm lovin' it..:wave:

- Bruce Black


----------



## JohnM

Thanks for the feedback Bruce.



AudioMagic said:


> 1. It would be nice if the file name of the current measurement set was displayed somewhere on the GUI.


That has been included in the course of the beta updates, the filename is now shown in the measurement panel.


> 2. It would be very helpful if the most recently used files were listed under the File menu, so you could just click and go.


I can hardly believe I don't have that on the list of features to implement, but it's on the list now, thanks!


> 3. It would save a lot of time if once the various graphs were generated they could be saved in the measurement file set so they wouldn't have to be generated again.


That is a compromise between wanting to avoid the individual measurement files getting too large and ensuring compatibility as additional views are developed or existing views are improved. Are there particular graphs that it would be helpful to have stored?


----------



## AudioMagic

Perhaps the easiest and most economical way to do this would be to save whatever graphs have been generated when application is shut down, or perhaps as a snapshot each time the file is saved.

Saving the graphs would allow one to exit the application, and pick up where they left off when the application is restarted or the file is reopened.

Rather than saving the graph itself, would it be more economical to flag which graphs were generated, then automatically (or perhaps optionally) redraw them when the file is opened?

As for which graph to save, I personally find the waterfall graphs to be the most useful and spend a lot of time with them, however I can't say that most other users would agree.

Thanks,

Bruce


----------



## paulspencer

Firstly, I want to say great job with REW and thanks for making it available to the diy community. 

There is one feature I'd really like to see - calculated room transfer function, based on a nearfield and farfield measurement where REW adjusts the response so that only the room transfer function is shown at that particular point.


----------



## JohnM

paulspencer said:


> There is one feature I'd really like to see - calculated room transfer function, based on a nearfield and farfield measurement where REW adjusts the response so that only the room transfer function is shown at that particular point.


A quick way to achieve that might be to export the nearfield measurement as text then load it as a mic cal file.


----------



## paulspencer

Not a bad idea actually. I was thinking I'd use SPL tracer to generate plots for nearfield and room response, then subtract, but that would be quicker.


----------



## chris319

When doing a sound card calibration with a mic/meter file, the calibration information does not carry over to the Mic/Meter field on the Soundcard graph on the main page. Does that make sense?


----------



## JohnM

chris319 said:


> When doing a sound card calibration with a mic/meter file, the calibration information does not carry over to the Mic/Meter field on the Soundcard graph on the main page. Does that make sense?


Yes, the soundcard cal is a loopback measurement, no mic/meter involved.


----------



## pierreye

Equipment use: FBQ2496. I can upload the EQ settings through USB MIDI cable to the FBQ2496 but when I manually check the EQ settings, Gains and Bandwidth is correctly upload but I found out Freq is always 1 to 3 steps lower than the frequency recommended by REW. For example, for filter 1, if REW show 97.96, the uploaded value in BFD show 96.83.

Rgds,
RJ


----------



## MACCA350

John, for some reason I cannot 'Open Measurement' anymore. I've tried from the main window, through the 'file' menu and 'Ctrl+0' command and nothing happens. I think there was a Java update a few days ago but I haven't used REW in a while so I'm not sure what may have caused it. Any ideas?

I think this is the latest log:


> 03/09/2010 6:02:25 PM roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
> INFO: Room EQ Wizard started
> Error loading win32com: java.lang.UnsatisfiedLinkError: no win32com in java.library.path


cheers


----------



## JohnM

Macca, which version of REW are you using? Have you tried installing the latest REW V5 Beta?


----------



## MACCA350

JohnM said:


> Macca, which version of REW are you using? Have you tried installing the latest REW V5 Beta?


V5.00beta build 1868

Are there more than one V5 Beta versions?

This issue was not present when I first installed V5, it only occurred recently.

EDIT: Scratch that, just checked the OP. I've downloaded the latest V5 and it's fixed the issue

cheers


----------



## erjee

Hi John,

I really like RoomEQ wizard, it allows me to create filters for my BruteFIR setup easily. There is one issue however with the 'match response to target' option. It creates a filter based on the raw frequency response and does not take any selected smoothing into account. For example, big narrow peaks smoothed away at 1/3 octave, will reappear (inverse) in the generated filter. Is it possible to change that routine so that it takes any selected smoothing into account?

Best regards,
erjee

BTW, i'm using the latest release of REW v5 beta


----------



## afalout

erjee said:


> I really like RoomEQ wizard, it allows me to create filters for my BruteFIR setup easily.


I did not know REW can create FIR filters? Is there anywhere more information on this? 

How do you do it, erjee?

Thanks, Andrej


----------



## erjee

afalout said:


> I did not know REW can create FIR filters? Is there anywhere more information on this?
> 
> How do you do it, erjee?
> 
> Thanks, Andrej


Hi Andrej,

Filters generated in REW are of normal parametric minimum phase type, which can be described with an IIR. The same parametric filters can also be described with a FIR of sufficient length, so that's what I do. In REW it is possible to export the impulse response of the filter to a wave file. Using Sox I create a raw file which can be used by BruteFIR. 

So, the power of BruteFIR is the ability to use linear phase filters (described by their FIR coefficients), but I'm not using that. The reason I use BruteFIR is that the interface is so nice and the ability to export the coeffients 

Regards,
erjee


----------



## JohnM

erjee said:


> I really like RoomEQ wizard, it allows me to create filters for my BruteFIR setup easily. There is one issue however with the 'match response to target' option. It creates a filter based on the raw frequency response and does not take any selected smoothing into account. For example, big narrow peaks smoothed away at 1/3 octave, will reappear (inverse) in the generated filter. Is it possible to change that routine so that it takes any selected smoothing into account?


Hi Erjee, the unsmoothed response is used up to 150Hz, after that any applied smoothing is used. Note that REW applies the filters to the original IR during the optimisation, so the filters it determines are those needed to achieve the target with the applied smoothing, not just an inverse of the smoothed response.


----------



## skyunlimited

I'm using REW for creating Filters for Brutefir too.
Just build a cheap Dipol Sub for my System and got it working perfectly with the Filters i created with REW.

So there two users using Brutefir , are these two (probably the iceberg's top :bigsmile enough to get a RAW Filter Export ? ( So we don't need sox....)

For those, who are running on Linux: Using Pulseaudio ,Openjdk (JRE is not working), Jack, Brutefir ,module-jack-sink, module-jack-source allows you to measure your created Filters.... :T

REW 5 is absolutely great.

Greetings
sky


----------



## JohnM

skyunlimited said:


> So there two users using Brutefir , are these two (probably the iceberg's top :bigsmile enough to get a RAW Filter Export ? ( So we don't need sox....)


Can you point me to a definition of the required RAW format? i.e. word length, byte order, mono/stereo


----------



## erjee

JohnM said:


> Can you point me to a definition of the required RAW format? i.e. word length, byte order, mono/stereo


Maybe I can answer that for sky 

Best would be 32 bit little endian floating point mono, but signed 32 bit little endian integer mono is also suitable.

Input/output data structures used in brutefir:



> The sample format should be one of the following strings:
> 
> * "S8", signed 8 bit integer.
> * "S16_LE", signed 16 bit little endian integer.
> * "S16_BE", signed 16 bit big endian integer.
> * "S16_4LE", signed 16 bit little endian integer, stored in the high bits of 4 bytes.
> * "S16_4BE", signed 16 bit big endian integer, stored in the high bits of 4 bytes.
> * "S24_LE", signed 24 bit little endian integer.
> * "S24_BE", signed 24 bit big endian integer.
> * "S24_4LE", signed 24 bit little endian integer, stored in the high bits of 4 bytes.
> * "S24_4BE", signed 24 bit big endian integer, stored in the high bits of 4 bytes.
> * "S32_LE", signed 32 bit little endian integer.
> * "S32_BE", signed 32 bit big endian integer.
> * "FLOAT_LE", 32 bit little endian floating point.
> * "FLOAT_BE", 32 bit big endian floating point.
> * "FLOAT64_LE", 64 bit little endian floating point.
> * "FLOAT64_BE", 64 bit big endian floating point.
> * "<X>_NE", native endian, <X> is replaced with S16, S16_4 etc, and the format will be converted to the LE or BE counterpart depending on if the machine is little endian or big endian.
> * "AUTO", will be converted to one of the LE or BE formats (or S8), as decided by the associated I/O module.



Regards,
erjee


----------



## erjee

JohnM said:


> Hi Erjee, the unsmoothed response is used up to 150Hz, after that any applied smoothing is used. Note that REW applies the filters to the original IR during the optimisation, so the filters it determines are those needed to achieve the target with the applied smoothing, not just an inverse of the smoothed response.


Ah, I see. So above 150 Hz, the Q of any filter will be adjusted such that it matches the Q of the original response?


----------



## xavier

Hello
How to deal with RoomEQ
To view multiple measurement windows (Windows IR) on the same curve, eg 10 \ 250Hz with 500ms and 250 \ 550Hz with 30ms and finally> 550Hz with 10ms ..?
Can you add in the user "Modal Simulation" to calculate the dimensions of the piece in the case of pieces in the attic with sloped roof ?
SVP
xavier.


----------



## skyunlimited

> 32 bit little endian floating point mono


That is exactly the format i use. By the way getting this output for the Impulse Response would be also very nice for use with DRC.....:bigsmile:

Thanks in advance 

Regards

SKY


----------



## JohnM

xavier said:


> To view multiple measurement windows (Windows IR) on the same curve, eg 10 \ 250Hz with 500ms and 250 \ 550Hz with 30ms and finally> 550Hz with 10ms ..?


I think what you are asking for here is an impulse response window whose width varies with frequency? That is on the list to be implemented (eventually), but not currently available.



> Can you add in the user "Modal Simulation" to calculate the dimensions of the piece in the case of pieces in the attic with sloped roof ?


I'm guessing you are referring to the modal simulation tool here, and would like to generate responses for rooms that are not rectangular. REW's modal simulation is very basic, only simulating axial modes. It is not intended as a room simulation tool, merely a method of generating test data for REW. To generate modal simulation data for non-rectangular rooms you would need a tool that performs a finite element analysis, REW does not do this.


----------



## xavier

OK, thank you for your explanation, I'll wait.
It would be interesting also to hang "IR windows" at each curve as "Smothing" in "Controls"
we can find examples on using RoomEQ...? "interpreting how well the curves"
xavier.


----------



## alaok

Thanks for posting the new version, John.
I'm an user of old REW 3. I think I'll like this REW5 more.

Thanks
Yuan


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Is there any way to implement a “save to .jpg” feature for the Settings “Soundcard” window and for the “EQ Filters” panel? We ask people for this information quite often, and it would be much more convenient than cropping a screenshot.

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## ClementW

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*

Hello all. Thanks to John for making this great tool available. 

I encounter a minor problem : when I smooth a measurement I can't sometimes return to "No smoothing" it goes back by itself to "Smooth 1/48". Do I do something wrong ? Thanks in advance.


----------



## laser188139

Hello John,

I saw where Wayne asserted that REW ignores the smoothing when generating filters. So I thought I would experiment with this. I loaded an older v4 datafile into REW v5 and tried different smoothing settings before generating the EQ filters for a Generic equalizer, 100Hz cutoff, 10Hz LF cutoff, 13Hz-200Hz match range. When I did this, having loaded the identical file multiple times, I found slightly different choices of filters for no smoothing, 1/6 octave, 1/2 octave. Nothing radical, so I suspect it does ignore the smoothing, but they were not all identical -- sometimes 16 filters, other times 17. More bizarre, with 1/6 octave smoothing, I found slightly different filter choices for the same smoothing setting, when all the other settings also appear to be identical. Is there something non-deterministic in the equalization algorithm, making some random choices for starting points in the optimization process? I worry that there is some non-initialized cell that is causing this, perhaps related to doing this when multiple windows are open and being equalized.

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I saw where Wayne asserted that REW ignores the smoothing when generating filters. So I thought I would experiment with this. I loaded an older v4 datafile into REW v5 and tried different smoothing settings before generating the EQ filters for a Generic equalizer, 100Hz cutoff, 10Hz LF cutoff, 13Hz-200Hz match range. When I did this, having loaded the identical file multiple times, I found slightly different choices of filters for no smoothing, 1/6 octave, 1/2 octave. Nothing radical, so I suspect it does ignore the smoothing, but they were not all identical -- sometimes 16 filters, other times 17. More bizarre, with 1/6 octave smoothing, I found slightly different filter choices for the same smoothing setting, when all the other settings also appear to be identical. Is there something non-deterministic in the equalization algorithm, making some random choices for starting points in the optimization process?


See this post for info on smoothing for the EQ routines (smoothing ignored below 150Hz). The response matcher is a stochastic optimiser using random perturbations, so results can vary from one run to another.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta Feedback*



ClementW said:


> I encounter a minor problem : when I smooth a measurement I can't sometimes return to "No smoothing" it goes back by itself to "Smooth 1/48". Do I do something wrong ?


See this post.


----------



## laser188139

John, there is something a little non-WYSIWYG about the Offset field in the SPL & Phase Controls when multiple measures are open. Suppose I open two measurements. On the second, I adjust the Offset upwards to 6.0dB, and the graph adjusts as I see it. Now I select the first measurement. The Control still shows the Offset value 6.0dB but the graph has not been adjusted at all. If I touch an arrow on the Offset to change it up or down 0.1dB, the graph now jumps to show the full Offset value has now been applied. I would expect, when I selected the first measure, that the Offset field would show the current offset for that measure, just as the smoothing control shows the currently applied smoothing. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, there is something a little non-WYSIWYG about the Offset field in the SPL & Phase Controls when multiple measures are open.


I've fixed that Bill, thanks.


----------



## chris319

A small request:

Under Export -> Measurement as text, could we have a configurable selection of field delimiters? At present the fields are space delimited. Could commas and tabs be offered as field delimiters, selectable under Preferences?

Many thanks.


----------



## JohnM

chris319 said:


> A small request:
> 
> Under Export -> Measurement as text, could we have a configurable selection of field delimiters? At present the fields are space delimited. Could commas and tabs be offered as field delimiters, selectable under Preferences?


Sure, I can add this. Note that using comma can cause problems, as comma is the decimal delimiter in some locales (in those locales Excel uses ; as the field delimiter when exporting as "csv").


----------



## chris319

REW loses communication with sound interface. Other programs are able to find the device and report no problem.



> Input device error
> 
> 
> Message:
> javax.sound.sampled.LineUnavailableException: Microphone (E-MU 0404 | USB) does not have any lines supporting PCM_SIGNED 44100.0 Hz, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian
> Level:
> SEVERE
> Stack Trace:
> Microphone (E-MU 0404 | USB) does not have any lines supporting PCM_SIGNED 44100.0 Hz, 16 bit, stereo, 4 bytes/frame, little-endian
> roomeqwizard.JB.I(Unknown Source)
> roomeqwizard.P.actionPerformed(Unknown Source)
> javax.swing.JComboBox.fireActionEvent(Unknown Source)
> javax.swing.JComboBox.setSelectedItem(Unknown Source)
> javax.swing.JComboBox.setSelectedIndex(Unknown Source)
> javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicComboPopup$Handler.mouseReleased(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.AWTEventMulticaster.mouseReleased(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Component.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
> javax.swing.JComponent.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
> javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicComboPopup$1.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Component.processEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Container.processEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Component.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.retargetMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.processMouseEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.LightweightDispatcher.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Container.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Window.dispatchEventImpl(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.Component.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
> java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)


----------



## JohnM

chris319 said:


> REW loses communication with sound interface. Other programs are able to find the device and report no problem.


Running under what OS? I have seen this occasionally under Vista, though last time I saw it the sound card driver seemed to have crashed, as shortly afterwards Vista claimed it didn't have an input device any more. Disabling and re-enabling the soundcard restored normal behaviour.


----------



## chris319

This is under Windows 7. After I posted that, further testing revealed that the problem occurs when I swap mics with phantom power turned on. It shouldn't, but it does. At the same time I discovered I had a bad XLR connector. I'm thinking maybe a phantom power glitch is causing the (USB) interface to no longer talk to the host and REW gets all confused.


----------



## chris319

It turns out I had to fix a faulty connection inside an XLR connector. I was worried because I was starting to think my ECM8000 had died. Still, there's something going on with JavaSound but I'm not sure it's a high priority.


----------



## chris319

One more small request: in the IR Windows, would it be possible to allow the user to specify the window size to 1/10 of a millisecond resolution? I am using REW to (quite successfully) characterize microphones and a short window is extremely useful in cancelling short-term reflections in a small room.

Many thanks again.


----------



## Unique

Could you please disable the automatic creation of c:\jexepackres whenever rew v5 is run?
The old rew did not do this.. :T


----------



## JohnM

Unique said:


> Could you please disable the automatic creation of c:\jexepackres whenever rew v5 is run?


Sorry, I have no control over that aspect of the operation of the installation wrapper, it is a 3rd party item. The directory is used as a location to expand the resources required when REW runs and is emptied when REW is closed.


----------



## chris319

chris319 said:


> One more small request: in the IR Windows, would it be possible to allow the user to specify the window size to 1/10 of a millisecond resolution? I am using REW to (quite successfully) characterize microphones and a short window is extremely useful in cancelling short-term reflections in a small room.
> 
> Many thanks again.


Update: The program already handles fractional milliseconds above 1 ms, e.g. 1.5 ms, but the fractional part is not displayed. The program does not go below 1 ms, e.g. 0.7 ms.


----------



## lovingdvd

Are the help files for version 5 beta online like they are for v4? If so can you please provide a link? Thanks.


----------



## JohnM

Help files are in REW itself and also available online here.


----------



## lovingdvd

I just installed v5 beta - looks fantastic! Haven't used REW since v3.

My sound card preferences are only allowing the choice of "Default Output" for "Output device and output" when 48k sample rate is chosen. However it does allow my various options for "Input device and input" under 48k. I am wondering if this is normal in my situation without causing an issue, or if I should address it.

I am running Windows 7 x64 with a Sound Blaster Live! 24 bit external USB device. I've installed the drives from Creative and the device is properly recognized in Device Manager. I have the SB device configured for 48khz/16 bit. That being said, it does seem to be working fine. I've only had time to get as far as the sound card calibration with the loopback, and that worked just fine with "Default Output" selected for the input.

I don't think this will cause any issues, but wanted to double check with you that this makes sense. I'm a bit concerned because under this scenario I don't have the flexibility to control the output mixer/volume - not sure if I'll need that but would rather not be locked out of it.

FWIW, before I installed the Creative drivers I was originally using the default Win7 drivers for it. In this scenario, I WAS able to choose the various devices for the input (and it was listed as USB sound instead of SoundBlaster Live). I decided to install the Creative drivers after I noticed that my left/right input dB was about -8dB than the output, and increasing the Input Volume up to 1 did not help close the gap at all (this control seemed to have no effect, even when set to 0). However after installing the Creative drivers I was able to set the Input Volume to 1 and close the gap to just -2dB so that was great.

Also in the help file it references special steps for using the SB Live 24 under Windows XP. Does this apply only to WinXP and those steps are not needed under Win7? I think so. Anyway I did verify through Win7 that the SB has effects disabled (I did this), is set to 48khz/16 bit and speakers are set to 2.

Lastly on a totally different note, if the help file is open it cannot be viewed/paged/scrolled while REW has a modal dialog box up - such as the Measurements window. This makes it awkward to look at the help because sometimes in one of these windows I want to view its help, but I then have to close the modal dialog to do so. This was the same way in REW v3. Is there any way to free this up so that the help window functions as its own independent window and doesn't get blocked by REW modal dialogs? Hopefully that's a simple tweak and it would be a nice little enhancement.

Thanks!!


----------



## JohnM

lovingdvd said:


> My sound card preferences are only allowing the choice of "Default Output" for "Output device and output" when 48k sample rate is chosen. However it does allow my various options for "Input device and input" under 48k. I am wondering if this is normal in my situation without causing an issue, or if I should address it.


In Vista and Win 7 applications seem to have less control over outputs, the OS maintains its own per-application volume setting.



> Lastly on a totally different note, if the help file is open it cannot be viewed/paged/scrolled while REW has a modal dialog box up - such as the Measurements window. This makes it awkward to look at the help because sometimes in one of these windows I want to view its help, but I then have to close the modal dialog to do so. This was the same way in REW v3. Is there any way to free this up so that the help window functions as its own independent window and doesn't get blocked by REW modal dialogs? Hopefully that's a simple tweak and it would be a nice little enhancement.


Afraid not, but if you have an internet connection you can view the online help files in a browser.


----------



## chris319

> My sound card preferences are only allowing the choice of "Default Output" for "Output device and output" when 48k sample rate is chosen. However it does allow my various options for "Input device and input" under 48k. I am wondering if this is normal in my situation without causing an issue, or if I should address it.
> 
> Read more: REW V5 Beta feedback - Page 36 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


Have you checked to see which of your audio devices are in "exclusive" mode?


----------



## lovingdvd

chris319 said:


> Have you checked to see which of your audio devices are in "exclusive" mode?


Thanks. No. I wasn't aware of such a mode? How exactly do I go about checking this? I am running Win7. Thanks again!


----------



## chris319

In Control Panel, select Sound. Select either Playback or Recording devices, select a device, click Properties, then select the Advanced tab. There will be check boxes saying "Allow applications to take exclusive control of this device". If there is another audio application running which takes exclusive control, it _might_ inhibit REW's displaying of that device. You could either take your audio device out of exclusive mode or shut down all other applications which might be using it (including web browser audio players).


----------



## JohnM

V5 beta 6 is now available for download, see the first post of this thread for details of the changes.


----------



## chris319

John -

Thank you very, very much for adding the fractional-millisecond impulse response window setting! This helps me a LOT!

Chris


----------



## lovingdvd

JohnM said:


> V5 beta 6 is now available for download, see the first post of this thread for details of the changes.


Great, thanks! Just install this beta over beta 5? Or do we have to uninstall beta 5 first?


----------



## JohnM

lovingdvd said:


> Great, thanks! Just install this beta over beta 5? Or do we have to uninstall beta 5 first?


Just install over the existing beta, no need to uninstall.


----------



## lovingdvd

Thanks. Upgrade went fine. I'm going to pick up a MIDI interface so I can use the automated communication/setting of filters with the BDF. In the past I've always done this manually. This may be a silly question, but in looking through the docs I do not see what action is taken to tell REW to transmit the filters to the BFD. This may be obvious when running the program but I just wanted to get clarification on this in advance - just in case its not obvious once I'm working with it live. Thanks again.


----------



## JohnM

lovingdvd said:


> This may be a silly question, but in looking through the docs I do not see what action is taken to tell REW to transmit the filters to the BFD. This may be obvious when running the program but I just wanted to get clarification on this in advance - just in case its not obvious once I'm working with it live.


Click the "Send Filter Settings to Equaliser" action in the Filter Tasks panel


----------



## lovingdvd

JohnM said:


> Click the "Send Filter Settings to Equaliser" action in the Filter Tasks panel


Great, thanks. When I worked with REW several years ago I remember it was a challenge to do tweaking once a filter set had been applied. Has this area been enhanced?

I can't recall all the details, but it was something like this - I'd have it calculate filters and predict the results, then program the filters into the BFD. Then I would measure to see how the filters actually performed. Then at that point I would realize that I needed a few more filters and/or needed to modify some of the last filters, which I would do in the BFD.

But the challenge at that point is that REW was not aware of the changes and then that precluded it from making subsequent rounds of optimization recommendations / changes, because doing so would clobber the tweaks I did. I'm not sure if I'm explaining this right because its been about 3 years since I last worked with it. I'm getting ready to dig back in using REW v5 and wondering whether this process has been enhanced or is handled in a more optimal way (or what the recommended approach is). If need be I can probably dig through here to find my original questions about this from years ago.

Thanks!


----------



## lovingdvd

John - to follow up from my posting above, I did some digging and found the original inquiry. It was about having a "remeasure" feature of sorts. Please see my post here http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/3303-cut-boost-how-much-4.html#post24346 and the response from brueks that follows immediately after.

Does this make sense? I'm wondering if there's been any enhancements in this area since the version I was last using back in early 2007. Thanks!


----------



## NixPix

Quick question regarding the new version.

When sending filters to my FBQ2496, sending to LEFT channel, but both channels are programmed and lit up on the FBQ itself. Is that normal with the "new" version?

Edit. Sent empty filters to the both channels and then re-sending the programmed filters to LEFT made it go back to only LEFT channel being programmed. Dont know if thats proper way to do it though...


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

lovingdvd said:


> Great, thanks. When I worked with REW several years ago I remember it was a challenge to do tweaking once a filter set had been applied. Has this area been enhanced?
> 
> I'm getting ready to dig back in using REW v5 and wondering whether this process has been enhanced or is handled in a more optimal way (or what the recommended approach is). If need be I can probably dig through here to find my original questions about this from years ago.


In v4 a nifty real time analyzer feature was added. See here. 

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## JohnM

lovingdvd said:


> I'd have it calculate filters and predict the results, then program the filters into the BFD. Then I would measure to see how the filters actually performed. Then at that point I would realize that I needed a few more filters and/or needed to modify some of the last filters, which I would do in the BFD.


V5 has a very accurate prediction of the results of the filters, including showing the effects on the waterfall, so you should now find that what REW predicts is what you get when you measure with the filters applied.


----------



## JohnM

NixPix said:


> When sending filters to my FBQ2496, sending to LEFT channel, but both channels are programmed and lit up on the FBQ itself. Is that normal with the "new" version?
> 
> Edit. Sent empty filters to the both channels and then re-sending the programmed filters to LEFT made it go back to only LEFT channel being programmed. Dont know if thats proper way to do it though...


Only one channel should be programmed, for both to be programmed the unit would have to receive "2" as the channel number rather than 0 (left) or 1 (right). REW only sends either 0 or 1, possibly noise on the Midi connection? The interval between Midi messages has been increased in this version after a couple of recent reports of intermittent problems in the filter transfers, the interval can be adjusted in REW's Comms Preferences ("FBQ filter Delay"). Could try increasing that if you find any unreliability in the Midi link.


----------



## lovingdvd

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> In v4 a nifty real time analyzer feature was added. See here.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thanks for the heads up about this. I read the post you referenced and looked at the docs for the RTA window. It looks really cool! I'm not exactly clear though on the usage...

For instance, in my case I'd want to use it to see the measurement for the 20-100hz range. So would I watch this window while I used the REW generator to play sine waves? Or would I just select on frequency in the generator and see how it looked?

Also regarding the ability to change the filters on the fly and immediately see the effect - am I correct to assume this means I have to tweak the filters manually in the BFD? IOW I cannot tweak the filters through the REW and send them via MIDI to the BFD while this RTA measuring is taking place?


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Sine waves are frequency-specific, so you can’t use them with a RTA. The signal used with a RTA is broadband pink noise, e.g. all frequencies across the spectrum are generated simultaneously. The RTA generates a response graph on the screen in real time, so when you adjust the equalizer you can see on the screen the resulting change in response in real time – i.e., as it’s happening. So yes, you have to adjust filters manually.

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## lovingdvd

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Sine waves are frequency-specific, so you can’t use them with a RTA. The signal used with a RTA is broadband pink noise, e.g. all frequencies across the spectrum are generated simultaneously. The RTA generates a response graph on the screen in real time, so when you adjust the equalizer you can see on the screen the resulting change in response in real time – i.e., as it’s happening. So yes, you have to adjust filters manually.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Excellent. When I bring up the RTA window and hit the Record button does it automatically play he broadband pink noise, or do I need to initiate that from another REW window?

Also the docs say this:


> Playing a test tone on the generator allows the levels of the tone and its harmonics to be observed on the analyser and distortion percentages to be calculated.


I take that to mean I have an option to play a single tone (presumably from the generator) and not just for a full broadband? Or am I misunderstanding that?

Also I was thinking that playing the broadband pink noise could influence the response. For instance with a sweep only one frequency is playing at a time, so you get the measurement of just that one frequency. But with a full broadband, I would think that some frequencies could impact the response of other frequencies since they are playing simultaneously? Which would then mean that could skew my results if I tune the filters using the RTA?

Lastly - regarding the need to tweak the EQ filters manually when using the RTA - here's a scenario. Let's say I use REW and it recommends filters and I upload these filters to the BFD. Then I run a measure and see it did a great job except for say 2 spots.

So then I run the RTA with broadband pink noise. Presumably then I can manually try adding a filter or tweaking filters to tune the results. Let's say I do that. At that point then REW is then thrown off since it no longer knows about the current filter set. So from that point forward its just manual tweaking, because REW won't know about my mods?


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

> Excellent. When I bring up the RTA window and hit the Record button does it automatically play he broadband pink noise, or do I need to initiate that from another REW window?


I’m using V4, but look for a button, icon, etc. that says “Generator.” Open it up and choose “Pink PN.”



> Also I was thinking that playing the broadband pink noise could influence the response. For instance with a sweep only one frequency is playing at a time, so you get the measurement of just that one frequency.


You’re confusing a frequency-specific sine wave with a sine wave sweep, like REW does when you’re getting a frequency response reading. If you want a measurement of a specific frequency, you need a sine wave at _that frequency._ And all you’d be able to “measure” from it, actually, is its SPL. 




> But with a full broadband, I would think that some frequencies could impact the response of other frequencies since they are playing simultaneously? Which would then mean that could skew my results if I tune the filters using the RTA?


No need to overanalyze things, people have been EQing sound systems with pink noise and RTAs for decades. Just fire up the pink noise and go for it (send your wife to the mall first). As you can see from the comparison graph brucek showed on that thread, there’s no appreciable difference between REW’s sine wave and RTA/pink noise graphs.




> Lastly - regarding the need to tweak the EQ filters manually when using the RTA - here's a scenario. Let's say I use REW and it recommends filters and I upload these filters to the BFD. Then I run a measure and see it did a great job except for say 2 spots.
> 
> So then I run the RTA with broadband pink noise. Presumably then I can manually try adding a filter or tweaking filters to tune the results. Let's say I do that. At that point then REW is then thrown off since it no longer knows about the current filter set. So from that point forward its just manual tweaking, because REW won't know about my mods?


REW isn’t “thrown off” by anything. The only time it’s talking to your equalizer is when you send the filters to it. That has nothing to do with what it picks up from the mic and shows on screen when you switch to the RTA function. 

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## lovingdvd

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> ...REW isn’t “thrown off” by anything. The only time it’s talking to your equalizer is when you send the filters to it. That has nothing to do with what it picks up from the mic and shows on screen when you switch to the RTA function.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thanks Wayne. What I am thinking about is the scenario whereby I make a manual tweak to the filters when using the RTA. But then wish to continue with REW. REW at that point does not know about the changes I made to the BFD. So I am thinking that in this scenario I could not use its predictive response because filters exist that it doesn't know about. I suppose I could add these manually or change the automated ones from AUTO to manual. Then I could continue with it?


----------



## NixPix

JohnM said:


> Only one channel should be programmed, for both to be programmed the unit would have to receive "2" as the channel number rather than 0 (left) or 1 (right). REW only sends either 0 or 1, possibly noise on the Midi connection? The interval between Midi messages has been increased in this version after a couple of recent reports of intermittent problems in the filter transfers, the interval can be adjusted in REW's Comms Preferences ("FBQ filter Delay"). Could try increasing that if you find any unreliability in the Midi link.


Thank you John for your reply. I actually did replace my usb midi extension cord for a longer one, perhaps that caused the issue?

Otherwise I dont have a clue why it happened. I followed my usual procedure. I started out with only 1 channel programmed (left). Fired up the new version of REW. Did a new baseline meassurement. Programmed the filters and sent it to the FBQ, to the left (default) channel. When the procedure was completed I ended up with both channels programmed... but anyways I cleared both channels and re-sent the filters so its back to normal again.

Thanks for an amazing program!


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt

lovingdvd said:


> Thanks Wayne. What I am thinking about is the scenario whereby I make a manual tweak to the filters when using the RTA. But then wish to continue with REW. REW at that point does not know about the changes I made to the BFD. So I am thinking that in this scenario I could not use its predictive response because filters exist that it doesn't know about. I suppose I could add these manually or change the automated ones from AUTO to manual. Then I could continue with it?


I’m going to have to leave this one for John.

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## JohnM

lovingdvd said:


> TI suppose I could add these manually or change the automated ones from AUTO to manual. Then I could continue with it?


Yup.


----------



## lovingdvd

JohnM said:


> Yup.


Great, thanks. BTW has anyone here opened up their BFD before? I need to open mine to replace the EPROM with version 1.4 so I can use the MIDI feature. However I'm unsure what are the screws I need to take out (trying to keep tinkering to an absolute minimum) and whether its accessed through the top of bottom. Anyone know? I posted the question here: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...re-v1-4-dsp1124p-v1-3-only-11.html#post315248 but that thread is so old no one is responding. Thanks.


----------



## JohnM

V5 beta 7 has just been uploaded to fix a bug that stopped the EQ target match running for some measurements, sorry about that :doh:


----------



## laser188139

lovingdvd said:


> Thanks Wayne. What I am thinking about is the scenario whereby I make a manual tweak to the filters when using the RTA. But then wish to continue with REW. REW at that point does not know about the changes I made to the BFD. So I am thinking that in this scenario I could not use its predictive response because filters exist that it doesn't know about. I suppose I could add these manually or change the automated ones from AUTO to manual. Then I could continue with it?


What you may be looking for is the feature, new in v5, to Retrieve Filter Settings from Equaliser. At least as I understand the function, this should let you load into REW whatever changes you have now made directly in the BFD. Of course, this only works where you have a physical connection and REW can access the equaliser directly. 

Bill


----------



## lovingdvd

laser188139 said:


> What you may be looking for is the feature, new in v5, to Retrieve Filter Settings from Equaliser. At least as I understand the function, this should let you load into REW whatever changes you have now made directly in the BFD. Of course, this only works where you have a physical connection and REW can access the equaliser directly.
> 
> Bill


Great, thanks! That sounds helpful. Am I right to assume that in order to use this you must hook up the MIDI interface to the MIDI out on the BDF (in addition to the MIDI in)?

Also on a different note - am I correct to assume there is a choice in REW as to what preset number (1-9) it should use to read and write the filters? Or must we select that manually on the BFD and it uses whatever is selected?

BTW - has anyone here opened their BFD 1124 and replaced the EPROM with the 1.4 firmware? I am looking for clarification on exactly what screws at a minimum need to be removed to get to the chip. I asked in the 1.4 firmware thread but it is so old I'm not sure anyone is following it there (no responses in a few days). Thanks!


----------



## lovingdvd

*Feature request*

When writing filters using the "Send filters to Equalizer", can you please have REW default to the last selection for channel (right/left) and BFD Preset to Override? For instance I use channel 9 for everything so each time I go to write the filters I have to move the Preset option from 1 over to 9. I don't mind making the selection, but rather I'm concerned that I may be on auto pilot and accidentally write it to preset 1 and not realize it. Thanks.


----------



## lovingdvd

laser188139 said:


> What you may be looking for is the feature, new in v5, to Retrieve Filter Settings from Equaliser. At least as I understand the function, this should let you load into REW whatever changes you have now made directly in the BFD. Of course, this only works where you have a physical connection and REW can access the equaliser directly.
> 
> Bill


Thanks for the tip. However I couldn't get this feature to work. I do have MIDI enabled with the BFD 1124 and can successfully write filters automatically using REW. However the "Retrieve filter settings from Equaliser" option is grayed out. I have my MIDI input and MIDI output connected to the BDF input and output MIDI ports.

In looking at the help file there is a mention of this feature specifically in the "Communicating with a TAG McLaren AV Processor" section. Maybe this feature to read the filters is only available with that AV processor, and won't work with the BFD 1124? Or if it is supposed to supported, why is it grayed out and how can I correct it? Thanks!


----------



## JohnM

lovingdvd said:


> When writing filters using the "Send filters to Equalizer", can you please have REW default to the last selection for channel (right/left) and BFD Preset to Override? For instance I use channel 9 for everything so each time I go to write the filters I have to move the Preset option from 1 over to 9. I don't mind making the selection, but rather I'm concerned that I may be on auto pilot and accidentally write it to preset 1 and not realize it. Thanks.


Will do.



lovingdvd said:


> I do have MIDI enabled with the BFD 1124 and can successfully write filters automatically using REW. However the "Retrieve filter settings from Equaliser" option is grayed out. I have my MIDI input and MIDI output connected to the BDF input and output MIDI ports.


The option is not available because the BFD does not have MIDI messages to read back the filter settings.


----------



## håkan

You have a problem whit the smooth i cant turne it off it goes back to 1/48 all the time
And it not gives the right curve.


----------



## JohnM

håkan said:


> You have a problem whit the smooth i cant turne it off it goes back to 1/48 all the time


See Post #5 for an explanation of the smoothing behaviour. 



> And it not gives the right curve


Can you explain in what way you feel the smoothing is incorrect?


----------



## håkan

JohnM said:


> See Post #5 for an explanation of the smoothing behaviour.
> 
> Can you explain in what way you feel the smoothing is incorrect?


I get to nice curves whit smoothing and get the reel curvs whit out the smoothing
And the are some complains to the new rew whit smoothing in sweden.


----------



## JohnM

håkan said:


> And the are some complains to the new rew whit smoothing in sweden.


Can you provide some links?


----------



## håkan

JohnM said:


> Can you provide some links?


this is a fast mesure .


----------



## JohnM

I was meaning links to the discussions with complaints about REW's smoothing.


----------



## håkan

JohnM said:


> I was meaning links to the discussions with complaints about REW's smoothing.


Sorry but it is only in swedish


----------



## JohnM

håkan said:


> Sorry but it is only in swedish


Sure, but Google translate is my friend


----------



## 3ll3d00d

Morning

I just installed the latest beta on a computer that I used to use for rew4. I tried the windows installer & the jar files (using latest jdk 6u22). I get a randomly jumbled up screen which is v odd. There is nothing obviously wrong with this computer so not sure whether this is a rew issue or something on my pc. This is Windows XP btw.

Any ideas?

Cheers
Matt


----------



## digi

Hi John,
recently I have bought a Minidsp for evaluation purposes. I was very excited by the fact that you support the direct file exchange with the biquad coefficients.:clap:

The example in the Minidsp plugin shows the following format:

biquad1,
b0=1.00255060195923,
b1=-1.99872541427612,
b2=0.996345996856689,
a1=1.99872541427612,
a2=-0.998896598815918,
.
.
.

Since I live in Germany, my system is by default configured to use a comma "," as the decimal separator, so the output of REW looks like:

biquad1,
b0=1,0028090593743322,
b1=-1,9949686068294576,
b2=0,9925597121616591,
a1=1,9949686068294576,
a2=-0,9953687715359911,
.
.
.

and the Minidsp plugin refuses to load the file. :hissyfit:

Can you please fix the output to force a "." as decimal separator? That would be great.

Thank you


----------



## JohnM

3ll3d00d said:


> I just installed the latest beta on a computer that I used to use for rew4. I tried the windows installer & the jar files (using latest jdk 6u22). I get a randomly jumbled up screen which is v odd. There is nothing obviously wrong with this computer so not sure whether this is a rew issue or something on my pc. This is Windows XP btw.
> 
> Any ideas?


Look for a graphics driver update, JRE 6 made a lot of changes to the graphics interface and lost compatibility with some graphics hardware in the process, but using the latest drivers generally clears that up.


----------



## JohnM

digi said:


> Can you please fix the output to force a "." as decimal separator?


Sorry about that. I've made the fix which will be in the next beta, but that is probably a couple of weeks off as I'm in the middle of some other changes at the moment.


----------



## chris319

Just a tiny nit to pick: Upon startup, REW doesn't remember the path to the mic calibration files. Seems to me it used to.


----------



## JohnM

chris319 said:


> Just a tiny nit to pick: Upon startup, REW doesn't remember the path to the mic calibration files. Seems to me it used to.


Still works for me :huh:


----------



## counsil

JohnM,

When do you think you will have something built to measure distortion like the proverbial Illka distortion graphs?


----------



## laser188139

chris319 said:


> Just a tiny nit to pick: Upon startup, REW doesn't remember the path to the mic calibration files. Seems to me it used to.


Are you finding the calibration filenames missing in the Preferences -> Soundcard and -> Mic/meter dialogs?

One inconvenience is that REW remembers only one directory for the file open dialog. So if you are opening v4 files in a subdirectory and you need to go back and associate the mic and soundcard files used for that measurement with the re-opened measure, you may need to go back to a different directory, where you keep the soundcard and mic files. Of course, one could avoid this by keeping the calibration files in the same directory as the measurement files. 

It also seems to be the case that REW v5 does not use the soundcard calibration file for the v4 measurements, even when a file with that filename is found in the same place. I need to use Change Cal to point to the v4 soundcard file again. This seems to be a result of the current soundcard filename in the Preferences not being the same as the one used when the v4 measurement was taken, and REW v5 does not want to presume that the file in the same place as before is the same file -- it wants some human confirmation. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> One inconvenience is that REW remembers only one directory for the file open dialog. So if you are opening v4 files in a subdirectory and you need to go back and associate the mic and soundcard files used for that measurement with the re-opened measure, you may need to go back to a different directory, where you keep the soundcard and mic files. Of course, one could avoid this by keeping the calibration files in the same directory as the measurement files.


V5 stores the paths to 10 different file types independently, including the mic cal, soundcard cal and measurement files, so you should not see that behaviour unless the path pointed to no longer exists on the PC.



> It also seems to be the case that REW v5 does not use the soundcard calibration file for the v4 measurements, even when a file with that filename is found in the same place. I need to use Change Cal to point to the v4 soundcard file again. This seems to be a result of the current soundcard filename in the Preferences not being the same as the one used when the v4 measurement was taken, and REW v5 does not want to presume that the file in the same place as before is the same file -- it wants some human confirmation.


In the V4 mdat file the cal file paths are not stored, but the cal file names are included in some saved comments in formats that varied somewhat between V4 versions. When a V4 file is loaded V5 looks for the names of the current V5 default cal files in those comments and if it finds them they are automatically placed in the measurement file when it is loaded. If it does not find the names it warns the user they need to be located and loaded.


----------



## JohnM

counsil said:


> When do you think you will have something built to measure distortion like the proverbial Illka distortion graphs?


I can't really say, I'm currently working on the SPL meter and next up after that will be work on the RTA. This is all "free" time (if there is such a thing) so there isn't much by way of a schedule.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> V5 stores the paths to 10 different file types independently, including the mic cal, soundcard cal and measurement files, so you should not see that behaviour unless the path pointed to no longer exists on the PC. ...


Something like the latter case, of the path no longer existing, is happening for me. But it is a little weird. 

I open a v4 measurement, in the ./v4 datafiles/ subdirectory. The current v5 soundcard has a different filename than the old v4 soundcard filename, so I see a warning. 

I click on the Change Cal ... button. 
The Mic/Meter calibration points to the correct filename, CSL_E07_narrow_band_response_0_degree.cal (in the /Room EQ Wizard/ directory).
Soundcard Calibration: No cal

I click on Browse: next to the Soundcard Calibration, and it opens the ../v4 datafiles/ subdirectory. Press cancel. 

I click on Browse: next to the Mic/Meter Calibration file, and it opens the /Room EQ Wizard/ directory, where the mic and soundcard calibration files are located. I press Cancel. 

I click on Browse: next to the Soundcard Calibration again. Now the current directory is the /Room EQ Wizard/ directory. 

Apparently, when the v4 soundcard calibration filename does not match the v5 filename, it clears the current soundcard directory. Or changes it to match the measurement file directory. But when I click on Browse next to the mic calibration filename, the directory for that filetype is now changed to match the mic file's directory name, which it knows. 

Hmmm. 

For my situation, it would be nicer if, when it cleared the soundcard filename, it defaulted to the directory of the current v5 soundcard in preferences, or left the directory for that type unchanged. Another idea, would be to default to the directory of the v4 soundcard filename, if that directory still exists. But changing this might be a lot of work for something that is a very minor situation. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> Another idea, would be to default to the directory of the v4 soundcard filename, if that directory still exists.


The directories of V4 cal files are not stored in the V4 mdat files, so the info available to do that just isn't there. I'll look at the other behaviour though.


----------



## 3ll3d00d

JohnM said:


> Look for a graphics driver update, JRE 6 made a lot of changes to the graphics interface and lost compatibility with some graphics hardware in the process, but using the latest drivers generally clears that up.


a clean install of latest drivers appears to have sorted it, thanks


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> it would be nicer if, when it cleared the soundcard filename, it defaulted to the directory of the current v5 soundcard in preferences


I've done that for the next release.


----------



## jtalden

Possible Future Enhancement:
In some cases it would be convenient to have the ability to have more than one average within a set of measurements. 

An example may be an average of 6 mic position sweeps for SW #1 and another average of 6 mic position sweeps of SW #2. The 2 averages can them be viewed in the overlay wiondow to see if the locations of the SWs compliment each other.

I sometimes even would like to get the average of 2 averages (and save all within the large file set).

Of course if this capability is added the title of the measurement would also need to be editable so the averages can be organized. Now the title field cannot be changed from "Average" to anything else. It would helpful to be able to enter "SW-1 Avg" for example.

I can work around the current averaging limitation using several different files, but it is relatively inconvenient.


----------



## counsil

jtalden said:


> Possible Future Enhancement:
> In some cases it would be convenient to have the ability to have more than one average within a set of measurements.
> 
> I can work around the current averaging limitation using several different files, but it is relatively inconvenient.


+1

I have found myself wanting multiple averages as well. I use multiple files as a workaround, too.


----------



## Nemesis.ie

This may have been discussed before, so sorry if I am duplicating.

Would it be possible to have multiple output channels available? e.g. for all the outputs (sweep, tone generator whatever) there would be a set of check boxes for each of the 7.1 channels (or more when more discrete channels appear) so they could be sent out via PCM to be decoded at the processor?

This would make it very convenient for testing multiple speakers versus having to swap cables and also you could potentially use the same digital input as your final source would be connected to.

It would also allow playing back all channels or groups to see the interaction.

Thanks!


----------



## digi

Hi John,
potentially I have not found the correct way to do it :huh:, but what I am missing is the ability to calculate a difference measurment. That means e.g.:
I measure a spl value, change some settings (EQ, room damping and so on) and measure again. To verfiy the result of my change I would like to substract the second measurement from the first so I only see the difference.

For the time being I export the two measurements to Excel, and manually calculate the difference, and then import the result again to REW. :scratch:

But as I said, perhaps I am missing some functionality of REW onder:

Cheers
Digi


----------



## laser188139

digi said:


> ... To verfiy the result of my change I would like to substract the second measurement from the first so I only see the difference.
> 
> For the time being I export the two measurements to Excel, and manually calculate the difference, and then import the result again to REW. ...


To compare two curves, Digi, I think most of use use the Overlay window. Just select the curves you want to see and deselect the others. If you want the exact values, as you move the cursor over the window, for whatever frequency is selected by the vertical blue line, the values appear at the bottom next to the names of the measures. For just two numbers, I just subtract them in my head. 

You are right, if you want a graph of the difference, you can export the data into Excel, manipulate it there, and then graph it in Excel. Of course, in Excel, you can do a lot more, max distance, min distance, standard deviation. 

Bill


----------



## Nemesis.ie

Hi John,

I just installed R5 version 2048 on my laptop and was having a quick play with the controls before I get down to serious work. It seems the shortcut to turn off smoothing is not working.

Pressing CTRL+Shift and 1, 2, 3 and 6 produce the correct smoothing, but pressing CTRL+SHIFT+0 does not seem to turn the smoothing off.

Cheers!


----------



## JohnM

From the keyboard shortcuts help section:

_Note that in windows Vista and Windows 7 the Ctrl+Shift+0 shortcut is by default assigned to switching the input language, see http://support.microsoft.com/kb/967893. To remove smoothing either use the graph menu entry, or the smoothing box in the graph controls, or press the smoothing shortcut again - for example, pressing Ctrl+Shift+3 will smooth the data to 1/3 octave, pressing it again will remove the smoothing._


----------



## Nemesis.ie

Thanks John! I wonder is there another shortcut that is not pre-assigned such as CTRL+Shift+- (minus sign) which would be intuitive.

Or perhaps greying out that shortcut if Vista/7 is detected? 

Cheers - I must read the manual too!


----------



## 3ll3d00d

Evening

NB: this reads like a right old moan but I don't mean it to be as the new UI is much slicker than the old one, hence this might just be the general befuddlement of an apparently freshly old man faced with a new toy lddude:

It's been 18months or so since I last used REW (v4) so these comments might be signs of rustiness and/or general stupidity and/or just not getting the v5 workflow at all (i.e. applying the v4 workflow to v5).

1) making the "average" response transient seems an arbitrary restriction
- i.e. take n measurements, make an average, take m more measurements, take an average, the existing one is overwritten
- the specific use case for which this seems odd is "try and see what audyssey sees" aka "try to EQ the average response across a listening area"
- the reason it is odd is linked to....

2) there seems to be no way to overlay the target & predicted & actual response against n other responses, i.e. 
- take n measurements
- I then have to pick one as the basis of EQing
- create filters (automatically or otherwise)
- hmm looks nice but what will those filters do to other responses?
- seems I'd have to go out of EQ window, EQ another curve, load filters up for them
- i.e. pointlessly time consuming and inconvenient

3) furthermore I can't see how to overlay target response on general measurements window

The combination of these means it seems v difficult to EQ an averaged response in any sensible way, for example I took an averaged response then asked REW to EQ it then loaded those filters then repeated measurements to see what it had done. It looked like I'd ended up with a bigger, wider cut around 20Hz than was expected but how could I compare given the above UI decisions?

Am I missing something fundamental here??

As an aside, it seemed like I hit a bug when I;

- opened EQ window
- asked REW to create filters
- saved filters to disk
- deleted them from screen
- closed window
- reopened EQ window for same curve
- repeated filter generation
- went to filter details, it was empty

I had to delete the measurement (in this case, it was an averaged one) before I could get filters back in the dialog that pops up, throughout this they were appearing across the top of the EQ screen as numbers on the top of the graph x axis.

Cheers
Matt


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> Possible Future Enhancement:
> In some cases it would be convenient to have the ability to have more than one average within a set of measurements.


I've changed the behaviour of the Averaged overlay for the next build to allow multiple averages to be generated and to edit their labels like any other measurement. By default they will be labelled Average 1, Average 2 etc.


----------



## JohnM

3ll3d00d said:


> 2) there seems to be no way to overlay the target & predicted & actual response against n other responses, i.e.
> - take n measurements
> - I then have to pick one as the basis of EQing
> - create filters (automatically or otherwise)
> - hmm looks nice but what will those filters do to other responses?
> - seems I'd have to go out of EQ window, EQ another curve, load filters up for them
> - i.e. pointlessly time consuming and inconvenient


I have an entry on my todo list to allow a set of filters to be applied to multiple measurements, but perhaps you could describe how you would like such a feature to operate.



> As an aside, it seemed like I hit a bug when I;
> 
> - opened EQ window
> - asked REW to create filters
> - saved filters to disk
> - deleted them from screen
> - closed window
> - reopened EQ window for same curve
> - repeated filter generation
> - went to filter details, it was empty
> 
> I had to delete the measurement (in this case, it was an averaged one) before I could get filters back in the dialog that pops up, throughout this they were appearing across the top of the EQ screen as numbers on the top of the graph x axis.


I cannot reproduce that, perhaps I am misunderstanding some of the steps. Does "deleted them from screen" mean used the delete burron in the EQ filters window to delete all the filters, or close the EQ filters window, or something else? Do you have a measurement you can reproduce this with?


----------



## Nemesis.ie

Another thought as folks have been mentioning "difference displays" in graphs.

Would it be possible to have a "calibration module" where you can take a sample with one mic (a calibrated one), then do another run with another mic and save out a calibration file that would correct mic 2 based on the result from mic one?

This could be very handy for those of us with a few mics kicking around that are not calibrated.

Maybe there is already a way to do this? (Exporting to a spreadsheet and doing comparisons or something?)

Thanks.


----------



## jtalden

Thanks for the enhancement to allow multiple averages! 

I also have a calibration issue with REW that I have not been able to resolve.

I’m an experience user of REW using the swept sine technique. I recently started using the RTA measurement feature and results are as expected except for one issue. The level calibration appears to be about 27 dB below the set level. I‘m using REW V5 beta release of 27-Oct-2010, Windows Vista OS, PreSonus Inspire1394 sound card, and a Behringer ECM8000 Mic. Possibly there is a bug, but it could easily be my error.

To illustrate, the chart below is an overlay of 2 measurements for the Right Front speaker that were both taken in the same mic position (my LP). They were taken sequentially, just after a recalibration to set the level to 75 dB using an RS SPL meter. I used the REW Speaker Signal for the calibration (leaving the REW output level at the default setting of -12 dB). The input level was around -18 dB.

The upper trace is the Swept Sine method and the lower trace is the RTA method (average of 32 samples, originally @1/48 octave). Both are plotted here with a 1/12 octave filter. The RTA curve is falling off the bottom of the chart. When I offset the RTA measurement about +27 dB it overlays the Swept curve fairly closely (not shown).










In looking to resolve this, I noticed that the Pink PN output by the REW signal generator measures 2 dB lower on my RS meter than the signal used under preferences for setting the level. This may explain 2 dB of the difference. I suppose the calibration signal may be bandwidth limited explaining this minor difference. I am really only concerned with where the additional 25 dB offset is coming from. 

Bug? What should I look for to resolve this?

Thanks,


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> I recently started using the RTA measurement feature and results are as expected except for one issue. The level calibration appears to be about 27 dB below the set level.


The RTA plot shows the energy within each octave fraction. With a pink noise test signal, the level you see on the meter is the total energy of the signal across its whole bandwidth, the energy in any particular octave fraction is a small part of the total so the levels are lower than you might expect. As the RTA resolution is increased, the fractions get narrower and the energy within them drops further. In the spectrum view you can see the same effect from increasing the FFT length, which reduces the FFT bin widths. When REW measures with a sweep the level of the swept tone is at the desired measurement level, but the total energy in that sweep signal is much, much higher than in a pink noise signal at the same level as at any one moment the sweep's energy is all at a single frequency whilst the pink noise signal spreads its energy across its bandwidth.

The upshot of all that is the RTA is giving you an accurate picture of the levels at each frequency. The difference between the RTA levels using pink noise and the levels you would see from a single tone at the same level on the REW signal generator is about 11dB for 1 octave, 14dB for 1/2, 16 dB for 1/3, 19dB for 1/6, 22dB for 1/12, 25dB for 1/24 and 28dB for 1/48. Those offsets can be precisely calculated, and I've considered having REW adjust the plot levels to show levels equivalent to a swept measurement, but strictly speaking they would be wrong.


----------



## jtalden

Got It. Thanks for the explaination. 
I can continue to boost the level manually then. It just takes a little extra time.
I have been getting very good results using a slow sprial through the listening area (for mic position) and with a "forever" averaging technique. I usually end up with about 130 to 160 averages for each measurement. It correlates very well to my previous swept sine averages using set mic positions around the same area and and takes much less time overall.
Thanks again.


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> Got It. Thanks for the explaination.
> I can continue to boost the level manually then. It just takes a little extra time.
> I have been getting very good results using a slow sprial through the listening area (for mic position) and with a "forever" averaging technique. I usually end up with about 130 to 160 averages for each measurement. It correlates very well to my previous swept sine averages using set mic positions around the same area and and takes much less time overall.


I've decided to go ahead and add an RTA level adjust option in the RTA controls, that will be in the next build. When selected the plotted levels will be the same as for sweep measurements at the same generator level setting and will not change when RTA resolution is changed. Whilst not correct, this will be more convenient.

Neat use of the RTA averaging, by the way. :T


----------



## håkan

For those of you who want an easy way to get useful files from REW, before John has fixed the export operation:

1st Create a folder for your REW EQ files, ie miniDSP biquad files.

2nd Download Swiss File Knife, sfk here: http://stahlworks.com/dev/sfk/sfk.exe and put it in the folder.

3rd Run "sfk rep-bin / 2c/2e / / 2e0d0a/2c0d0a / dir.-File. Txt yes" in the folder

4th Clear. All decimal points have now become the decimal points in all of biquad files in the folder.

Run the command every time you created a miniDSP file from REW and before you import it into your bique-capable plugin.

This is made whit google translate.


----------



## blekenbleu

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - BFD MIDI on MacBook*



JohnM said:


> The option is not available because the BFD does have MIDI messages to read back the filter settings.


Was this intended to be "BFD does NOT have MIDI messages.."?
Page 17 of the DSP1124P PDF indicates that setting 4C should report filter settings.

I am trying to establish MIDI communications between REW V5 Beta 7 and DSP1124P 
on MacBook Pro Snow Leopard 10.6.5 with Mandolane and Java 1.6.0_22 x86_64.
Mandolane MIDI Tester cause USB-MIDI dongle IN and OUT LEDs to both flash
when the MIDI dongle In connector is plugged to DSP1124P MIDI THRU,
but only the OUT LED flashes when MIDI dongle IN plugged to DSP1124P MIDI OUT,
despite 4C and 3P being set in DSP1124P MIDI control,
which suggests that Mandolane MIDI Tester signals are recognized by DSP1124P
as neither command nor program.

This $6 USB-MIDI dongle was immediately recognized by my MacBook,
with no drivers required: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017H4EBG 

At any rate, it appears that it will not be possible to capture DSP1124P filters
(set years ago from REW on a Windows PC) by this MacBook with REW V5..?

Meanwhile, navigating to Preference->Comms->Enable Midi
gets a confounded menu item, per the attached GIF:


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - BFD MIDI on MacBook*



blekenbleu said:


> Was this intended to be "BFD does NOT have MIDI messages.."?


Yes, I've fixed the post.



> Page 17 of the DSP1124P PDF indicates that setting 4C should report filter settings.


If you are referring to the sys-ex memory dump, there is no documentation on the structure of the data returned.



> I am trying to establish MIDI communications between REW V5 Beta 7 and DSP1124P
> on MacBook Pro Snow Leopard 10.6.5 with Mandolane and Java 1.6.0_22 x86_64.
> Mandolane MIDI Tester cause USB-MIDI dongle IN and OUT LEDs to both flash
> when the MIDI dongle In connector is plugged to DSP1124P MIDI THRU,
> but only the OUT LED flashes when MIDI dongle IN plugged to DSP1124P MIDI OUT,
> despite 4C and 3P being set in DSP1124P MIDI control,
> which suggests that Mandolane MIDI Tester signals are recognized by DSP1124P
> as neither command nor program.


Check the dongle connector labelling carefully, often IN needs to be connected to IN and OUT to OUT.



> At any rate, it appears that it will not be possible to capture DSP1124P filters
> (set years ago from REW on a Windows PC) by this MacBook with REW V5..?


Only takes a few minutes to go through the settings on the unit and write them down though...



> Meanwhile, navigating to Preference->Comms->Enable Midi
> gets a confounded menu item, per the attached GIF:


Not quite sure how that can happen, but I've made a change for the next beta that might help.


----------



## blekenbleu

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - BFD MIDI*



JohnM said:


> If you are referring to the sys-ex memory dump, there is no documentation on the structure of the data returned.


That would be the "1d" and "2d" sys-ex data receive and dump modes,
as enumerated on pg 18 of the DSP1124P PDF.

I was thinking about the "4C" setting for controller command configuration on page 17,
which is described: "As 3, with additionally the automatic filter parameters",
where setting "3C" is described: "Controller data are transmitted and received"

I suppose somewhere is a MIDI monitor utility program, for experimenting with these...


> Check the dongle connector labelling carefully, often IN needs to be connected to IN and OUT to OUT.


Other uses have confirmed that this dongle's OUT should be connected to MIDI device IN,
but I will try reversing connections, next time.


> Only takes a few minutes to go through the settings on the unit and write them down though..


Fair enough.


----------



## JohnM

V5.0 beta 8 is now available for download from the usual spot, see the first post of this thread for details of the changes.


----------



## Chester

I like the new look of the meters


----------



## jtalden

Nice changes.
I played with the A+B/2 arithmatic and the results were as expected. Thanks!

On an unrelated note, I did notice that one feature still does not seem to work as I expected. The Preferences/Analysis/Show-Response-Below-Window-Limit does not seem to work on my machine. I get the same SLP/Phase plot no matter the box selection. I expected the SPL and Phase plot to be truncated below the window limit when checked and dotted lines below that point when it is not. Even when the window is set to 0 to 1 ms (500 Hz Indicated?), I see a solid lines down to my start freq at 15 hz no matter the box selection. I also expected the freq for a 1 ms window to be 2k (at a minimum), but may be mistaken on that.
I am running under Windows Vista 32.
I can post a screen shot if helpful.


----------



## laser188139

John, in the new version, the smoothing selection has been removed from the SPL & Phase window Controls -- it is of course still present in the Overlays SPL window Controls. Was this intentional, now that the Graph menu selection offers the full set of smoothing choices?

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## Nemesis.ie

Chester said:


> I like the new look of the meters


Yes indeed, very nice. Top work as always.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> John, in the new version, the smoothing selection has been removed from the SPL & Phase window Controls -- it is of course still present in the Overlays SPL window Controls. Was this intentional, now that the Graph menu selection offers the full set of smoothing choices?


Yes, there didn't seem any benefit to repeating the selection in the graph controls for the graphs in the main window. I kept the selector in the relevant overlay windows controls (where it applies to selected traces only) and in the EQ window.


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> The Preferences/Analysis/Show-Response-Below-Window-Limit does not seem to work on my machine. I get the same SLP/Phase plot no matter the box selection. I expected the SPL and Phase plot to be truncated below the window limit when checked and dotted lines below that point when it is not. Even when the window is set to 0 to 1 ms (500 Hz Indicated?), I see a solid lines down to my start freq at 15 hz no matter the box selection. I also expected the freq for a 1 ms window to be 2k (at a minimum), but may be mistaken on that.


Yes, the traces should be dashed below the window limit, which is 1/(left+right durations) - so for 1ms left and 1ms right the limit would be at 500Hz, for example. It works as expected for me, things to check would be that you are reducing both left and right windows and that you hit the "Apply Windows" button to actually apply the window settings to the measurement.


----------



## JohnM

Chester said:


> I like the new look of the meters





Nemesis.ie said:


> Yes indeed, very nice. Top work as always.


Thanks both, it was fun to take a break from the main feature stuff and spend a little while playing with the visuals


----------



## Chester

i was wondering, in the RTA section, what does 'max overlap' change?


----------



## JohnM

From the updated RTA Window help:


> The FFT Length determines the basic frequency resolution of the analyser, which is sample rate divided by FFT length. The shortest FFT is 8,192 (often abbreviated as 8k) which is also the length of the blocks of input data that are fed to the analyser. An 8k FFT has a frequency resolution of approximately 6Hz for data sampled at 48kHz. As the FFT length is increased the analyser starts to overlap its FFTs, calculating a new FFT for every block of input data. The degree of overlap is 50% for 16k, 75% for 32k, 87.5% for 64k and 93.75% for 128k. The overlap ensures that spectral details are not missed when a Window is applied to the data. The maximum overlap allowed can be limited using the Max Overlap control below to reduce processor loading at higher FFT lengths


----------



## jtalden

JohnM said:


> Yes, the traces should be dashed below the window limit, which is 1/(left+right durations) - so for 1ms left and 1ms right the limit would be at 500Hz, for example. It works as expected for me, things to check would be that you are reducing both left and right windows and that you hit the "Apply Windows" button to actually apply the window settings to the measurement.


FYI,
Thanks for confirming the correct cutoff freq for me. I calculated it wrong in my head.

I cannot get either the truncated line or dashed line to appear below the cutoff however regardless of the preferences setting. To test this, I set Right and Left windows to “1” and activate "Apply Windows". The correct windowed curve is then shown, but it extends as a solid line down to my 15 Hz start freq. with either preference setting.

It is not big a concern for me as I easily recognize the cutoff freq. 

Since is it is working for others it is probably related to my graphics card, OS setting or the like. I will uninstall and reinstall REW and also see if my display settings will fix this.


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> Since is it is working for others it is probably related to my graphics card, OS setting or the like. I will uninstall and reinstall REW and also see if my display settings will fix this.


It won't be anything to do with graphics card or OS or installation, there may be an interaction with another setting - smoothing is a candidate, I'll dig around and see what I find.


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> I cannot get either the truncated line or dashed line to appear below the cutoff however regardless of the preferences setting.


That is a bug related to smoothing, I've fixed it for the next release. Thanks for spotting it


----------



## laser188139

The SPL Logger function is a neat new feature. I left it running for a long period, just to see what would happen, and it seemed to stop after about 8 1/3 mins. The Red button in the upper right pretended the Logger was still running, but the graph display and horizontal scroll bar would not display any later. 

If it really stopped, I might have expected the On button to be turned off. 

Bill


----------



## jtalden

Thanks John,
I also noticed another minor issue with IR Windows actions. If the global IR windows is set in Preferences the proper window is applied correctly - no problem. If you decide later to override that setting with the IR Window Pop-up, the action works properly on the SPL and Phase plots, but the frequency resolution indicator in the pop-up remains at the default setting rather than taking on the new value. It is not being updated. I also note the window graphic indicators in the IR window (dotted lines and shading) are also not updating as they normally do.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> The SPL Logger function is a neat new feature. I left it running for a long period, just to see what would happen, and it seemed to stop after about 8 1/3 mins.


That's a typo in the graph axis limit, the logger is still running (and saving the log should show all the captured data) but the max for the time axis graph is 500s, I'll fix it in the next build.


----------



## laser188139

Hello John,

You may not believe me, but there appears a strange interaction between the SPL Logger and the RTA. I start up RTA, 1/6 octave, averaging Forever and let it run. It can run that way, seemingly indefinitely. But, if I start RTA with the same options while letting the SPL Logging run forever, after somewhere around 46,347 averages, the black RTA line disappears from the graph. 

It is not a repainting problem, as I saw it just disappear when nothing was covering the RTA window on the screen. And it is not just a graphing problem, as the current dB value at the cursor drops to -89.4dB. After the black RTA line disappears, the process is still running, as the count of the number of averages continues to increase. 

If I press Reset Averaging, everything does start over cleanly, the black graph line reappears. 

Very weird,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

jtalden said:


> I also noticed another minor issue with IR Windows actions. If the global IR windows is set in Preferences the proper window is applied correctly - no problem. If you decide later to override that setting with the IR Window Pop-up, the action works properly on the SPL and Phase plots, but the frequency resolution indicator in the pop-up remains at the default setting rather than taking on the new value. It is not being updated. I also note the window graphic indicators in the IR window (dotted lines and shading) are also not updating as they normally do.


I've fixed that for the next build.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> You may not believe me, but there appears a strange interaction between the SPL Logger and the RTA. I start up RTA, 1/6 octave, averaging Forever and let it run. It can run that way, seemingly indefinitely. But, if I start RTA with the same options while letting the SPL Logging run forever, after somewhere around 46,347 averages, the black RTA line disappears from the graph.


It could be a processor loading problem, the SPL logger is not efficient in its updating of the SPL log traces which causes substantial loading when the log duration gets large, I'm looking at a more efficient scheme.


----------



## JohnJSmith

Awesome! Love the new look. I played around with v4 some months ago, and I was able to jump right into v5 without any problem.

These may be java issues and not REW issues:

Under Linux, when I attempt to capture a graph, it only works if I specify an absolute path. E.g. if I navigate into /tmp and try to save "test.png," nothing happens. The dialog box closes, but no file is created. If I instead type out "/tmp/test.png," it works as expected.

I seem to recall the same thing happened in v4, but it's been a while.

Also, when I click to set trace colors, the "choose a color" dialog that opens is so tall that the buttons are off the bottom of the screen. I have to grab the top of the window, resize it down, then drag the window up to see them.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> It could be a processor loading problem, the SPL logger is not efficient in its updating of the SPL log traces which causes substantial loading when the log duration gets large, I'm looking at a more efficient scheme.


I understand that it might be a processor loading problem. But I'm beginning to suspect it is as much with the RTA process as with the SPL logger. 

I restarted the RTA process. After running 116,000 averages successfully, I started the SPL Logger. The RTA display failed before another 6000 samples were collected. 

I restarted the RTA process again. After running 50300 averages successfully, I started the SPL Logger. The RTA display failed almost immediately. 

This makes me think that the process load is not just a function of the length of the SPL log, as this log would have been very short, especially in the last case. 

Bill


----------



## JohnM

JohnJSmith said:


> Also, when I click to set trace colors, the "choose a color" dialog that opens is so tall that the buttons are off the bottom of the screen. I have to grab the top of the window, resize it down, then drag the window up to see them.


Can you post a screenshot of the dialog?


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> I understand that it might be a processor loading problem. But I'm beginning to suspect it is as much with the RTA process as with the SPL logger.


What RTA length/overlap/window/update interval were you using? What loading does task manager show when running the RTA and after starting the SPL logger?


----------



## JohnJSmith

Here you go:

http://uppix.net/3/f/7/0b67ef44fad270b21a44744f4ce45.png


----------



## paulspencer

There's a lot of things I like about the new version. There's just one thing I miss - being able to overlay in the main window.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> What RTA length/overlap/window/update interval were you using? What loading does task manager show when running the RTA and after starting the SPL logger?


My current RTA options are:
RTA 1/6 octave
FFT Length: 65536
Averages: Forever
Window: Rectangular
Max Overlap: 87.5%
Update interval: 1

The behavior is consistent as I reduce the applications running to just REW and Windows Task Manager. Of course, being Windows, there are still numerous other processes loaded in the background. 

Thanks,
Bill


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> What RTA length/overlap/window/update interval were you using? ...


The choice of Averaging does affect the symptom. When I started RTA with Averaging : Forever simultaneously with the SPL Logger, it would fail after about 2 hrs 10 mins. I started the same experiment with Averaging : 32, it is still running fine after 4 hrs 30 mins. 

Bill


----------



## JohnJSmith

JohnJSmith said:


> Here you go:
> 
> http://uppix.net/3/f/7/0b67ef44fad270b21a44744f4ce45.png


Ah ha! The screenshot above is the OpenJDK JRE. I tried it with the Sun JRE, and it did not exhibit the same behavior. If there's a workaround for OpenJDK, it would probably be worthwhile to implement it, as the Sun JRE isn't part of the default package set for Ubuntu. It takes a bit of Googling and hoop jumping to find the "partner" packages.


----------



## laser188139

JohnM said:


> What RTA length/overlap/window/update interval were you using? ...


I tried another couple of experiments. Since setting the Averages to 32 worked, I tried Exponential 0.97. That worked too without any failure. The RTA ran past 3:12 without any problem; I stopped it at 6:17, still no problem. 

Just to make sure, this morning I went back to Averages: Forever after rebooting and restarting REW. The black RTA line disappeared a little before 46,350 averages, just before ~2:11:51 elapsed time on the SPL Logger. So whatever I am seeing with my stress test, it seems specific to Forever averaging. 

Cheers,
Bill


----------



## JohnM

JohnJSmith said:


> If there's a workaround for OpenJDK, it would probably be worthwhile to implement it, as the Sun JRE isn't part of the default package set for Ubuntu.


Not sure what the workaround might be, the color chooser is derived from a standard Java component in a standard dialog, probably worth reporting it as a bug against OpenJDK.


----------



## JohnM

laser188139 said:


> The choice of Averaging does affect the symptom. When I started RTA with Averaging : Forever simultaneously with the SPL Logger, it would fail after about 2 hrs 10 mins. I started the same experiment with Averaging : 32, it is still running fine after 4 hrs 30 mins.


I don't think the SPL logger is a factor, I did manage to reproduce the problem with just the RA running, though it had been running all day by the time I saw it had gone to -180dB.


----------



## giankam

Hello I have a strange issue with the latest REW.

I can't load the old measurements and I can't meaasure. The program get stuck at 99% of the process.









Is there anything I can do?

many thanks


----------



## JohnM

giankam said:


> I can't load the old measurements and I can't meaasure. The program get stuck at 99% of the process. Is there anything I can do?


Look in the log files which are in your user home directory in a subdirectory called REW, see what messages have been logged and attach the log file if you find one with errors logged.


----------



## blekenbleu

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - confounded Midi Preferences*



JohnM said:


> Not quite sure how that can happen, but I've made a change for the next beta that might help.


Beta 8 Comms Preferences with [v] Enable Midi looks good on Snow Leopard OS X

.. except a typo in Help: "crach" should be "crash".

Thanks!


----------



## giankam

here the log:

18-dic-2010 18.22.16 roomeqwizard.RoomEQ_Wizard main
INFO: Room EQ Wizard started
java.lang.reflect.InvocationTargetException
at java.awt.EventQueue.invokeAndWait(Unknown Source)
at roomeqwizard.I$_B.Q(Unknown Source)
at roomeqwizard.I$_B.doInBackground(Unknown Source)
at org.jdesktop.swingworker.SwingWorker$1.call(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.FutureTask$Sync.innerRun(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.FutureTask.run(Unknown Source)
at org.jdesktop.swingworker.SwingWorker.run(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.runTask(Unknown Source)
at java.util.concurrent.ThreadPoolExecutor$Worker.run(Unknown Source)
at java.lang.Thread.run(Unknown Source)
Caused by: java.lang.IllegalArgumentException: (minimum <= value <= maximum) is false
at javax.swing.SpinnerNumberModel.<init>(Unknown Source)
at javax.swing.SpinnerNumberModel.<init>(Unknown Source)
at roomeqwizard.rB.Ü(Unknown Source)
at roomeqwizard.rB.<init>(Unknown Source)
at roomeqwizard.RA.A(Unknown Source)
at roomeqwizard.QC.A(Unknown Source)
at roomeqwizard.I$_B$2.run(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.event.InvocationEvent.dispatch(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventQueue.dispatchEvent(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpOneEventForFilters(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForFilter(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEventsForHierarchy(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.pumpEvents(Unknown Source)
at java.awt.EventDispatchThread.run(Unknown Source)


I don't really understand..


----------



## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - confounded Midi Preferences*



blekenbleu said:


> Beta 8 Comms Preferences with [v] Enable Midi looks good on Snow Leopard OS X
> 
> .. except a typo in Help: "crach" should be "crash".


Thanks for letting me know, and I've fixed the typo for the next build.


----------



## JohnM

giankam said:


> here the log:


Thank you. Please try the following:

Open regedit (Click Start, Run..., type regedit in the "Open" box and click OK)
Expand HKEY_CURRENT_USER, then Software, then JavaSoft, then Prefs
Right click on the "room eq wizard" folder, select Export and save the .reg file somewhere
Close regedit
Locate the .reg file you just saved and change the extension to .txt
email that file to me ([email protected]) or attach it to a reply in this thread
Open REW, go to the Tools menu and select "Delete preferences and shut down"
Restart REW and try opening a measurement or making a new measurement


----------



## chris319

Thanks for the global IR window settings in Preferences!


----------



## giankam

I've attacched the txt and followed your instructions now it seems to work fine.

thanks


----------



## JohnM

giankam said:


> I've attacched the txt and followed your instructions now it seems to work fine.


Thanks, the problem was caused by the spectrogram SPL range being lower than the minimum allowed (10dB) which it should not be possible to set, but I've added some additional checks to make sure this cannot occur.


----------



## almat

Hi everybody,

Windows XP Service Pack 3
I get some problem with the Windows installer, here is the error message :

Error #91 .EXE
Section Digital Signature Check Failed

PROBLEM wizardinstallv5beta.exe is damaged

SOLUTION Reinstall lwizardinstallv5beta.exe preferably obtaining the last version

Any clue ?
TIA
Alain


----------



## laser188139

almat said:


> ... Section Digital Signature Check Failed ...


Alain, are you sure your download was not corrupted? I downloaded the current beta to a machine with XP Service Pack 3 and it installed without any problem. Try downloading it again. 

Bill


----------



## almat

Hi Bill,

I tried several times ... same message ... but I have found a turnaround : downloading on my iMac !
Successful installation on my Windows laptop.
:clap:

As we say in France : "on a toujours besoin d'un plus petit que soi" 
lddude:

Thanks a lot
Alain


----------



## laser188139

C'est très français que le système D. J'avais peur que ce ne soit un problème de compatibilité avec la version française de Windows. Je suis content que vous ayez trouvé un moyen pour y parvenir.

Cordialement,
Bill


----------



## almat

Bonjour Bill,

Toutes mes félicitations, vous vous exprimez dans un Français parfait.

Félicitations également pour l'évolution de cette version 5.0, je possède ARTA ainsi que HolmImpulse, et je ne vois, pour l'instant, que des avantages.
Bravo pour l'écran spectrogramme qui est fort utile pour le calage en phase des HPs.

Je continue ma prospection du logiciel, mais soyez certain que je n'oublierai pas la donation.

Je vous souhaite de Bonnes Fêtes de fin d'année.
Alain


----------



## Capoeira

Arch-Linux here

trying to run it gives me a frozen loader (the picture) it stops at the end saying "setting preferences"

tried openjdk6 and jre6, with same result.

other java SW runs


----------



## JohnM

Capoeira said:


> Arch-Linux here
> 
> trying to run it gives me a frozen loader (the picture) it stops at the end saying "setting preferences"


Look to see if any log files have been generated in your user home directory in a subdirectory called REW, if they have see what messages have been logged and attach the log file if you find one with errors logged.


----------



## Capoeira

JohnM said:


> Look to see if any log files have been generated in your user home directory in a subdirectory called REW, if they have see what messages have been logged and attach the log file if you find one with errors logged.


it has only one line wich says it was started

but i discoverd that the problem is the Windowmanager (lxde/openbox)
because in KDE4 it works.

solved, as I dont need to run it in lxde

thanks


----------



## Capoeira

Capoeira said:


> it has only one line wich says it was started
> 
> but i discoverd that the problem is the Windowmanager (lxde/openbox)
> because in KDE4 it works.
> 
> solved, as I dont need to run it in lxde
> 
> thanks


sorry, was a alsa-problem


----------



## BETO

Hey i selected down run and down load but i cant get it working it comes an error message.. It says error #90 wizardinstallv5beta.exe is partial/truncated exe (partial download) 

problem wisardinstall.exe is damage

solution:reinstall wizardinstall obtain last version.. 

Question.. Where do i find it? My mini lap is an acer with windows xp and im really really tired i cant make it working please helpppp..


----------



## laser188139

BETO said:


> ... It says error #90 wizardinstallv5beta.exe is partial/truncated exe (partial download)
> problem wisardinstall.exe is damage
> solution:reinstall wizardinstall obtain last version.. ...


Alain, from France, had a similar problem a week ago. He managed to download the file to his Mac, then move it to Windows to perform the installation. As then, I downloaded the file myself and it seems fine. 

I'm beginning to wonder if there is something different in the non-English versions of Windows XP. Or perhaps there is something different with your antivirus software. On my machines here, we have Norton Antivirus installed, and it accepts the file. What browser are you using to perform the download? What antivirus software are you using?

Bill


----------



## kflory

BETO said:


> Hey i selected down run and down load but i cant get it working it comes an error message.. It says error #90 wizardinstallv5beta.exe is partial/truncated exe (partial download)
> 
> problem wisardinstall.exe is damage
> 
> solution:reinstall wizardinstall obtain last version..
> 
> Question.. Where do i find it? My mini lap is an acer with windows xp and im really really tired i cant make it working please helpppp..


The message you are getting seems to indicate the it did not download correctly (truncated or corrupted).

You should just try re-downloading the same version (make sure you let your browser finish downloading before you close it). Since you are responding in this thread, I assume you were downloading from here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/28595-rew-v5-beta-downloads.html

Good luck!


----------



## BETO

Thnks for your help.. 

I have the panda antivirus.. 
I dont know anithing from pc.. But im trying to do it.. My lap has an english windows xp..
Please be pattient with me.. Thnks.. Ill try to down loaded again.. (sorry for my english..)


----------



## Loak

BETO said:


> Thnks for your help..
> 
> I have the panda antivirus..
> I dont know anithing from pc.. But im trying to do it.. My lap has an english windows xp..
> Please be pattient with me.. Thnks.. Ill try to down loaded again.. (sorry for my english..)


Hi all,
Same problem here few days ago. The download was stopping before its end. The file was always smaller than the announced size. I use Ubuntu and Firefox. Maybe some server issue somewhere. Solved by downloading again and again until a finalized download.


----------



## Sonnie

We are checking the server to see if it may be anything there.


----------



## Sonnie

We are not seeing anything on the server side. Our techs were able to download, install and use it... even has a nasty 40Hz dip in his response. 

These kinds of issues are somewhat difficult to diagnose when they seem to be intermittent and we cannot duplicate them. It may also have been a temporary glitch at some point in time.

If anyone else has any issues downloading the file and wants to troubleshoot it, please create a New Thread in the Forum Help forum if you will. I get notice of new threads there and may be able to get to it quicker. We made need a run command trace route to our domain to see if perhaps there is a routing issue. Thanks!


----------



## laser188139

I tried doing google searches for something like the Error #91 Section Digital Signature Check Failed message and the Error #90 partial/truncated message. No joy; there were no obvious links to anything that might identify which software diagnosed these messages and perhaps whether the problems were browser or antivirus specific. 

Bill


----------



## Sonnie

Some computers and anti-virus software is peculiar about download executable files. A .zip file might download where a .exe has issues.


----------



## almat

Hi Bill and everybody at Hometheatershack,

First, I wish you a Happy New Year !!!

About the downloading issue, if it can help, I use Avast antivirus on my Windows laptop ...
Now a question : does smoothing apply on Decay, Waterfall and Spectrogram ?
I feel that it is stuck on 1/48, no way to change it.

Alain


----------



## laser188139

almat said:


> ... Now a question : does smoothing apply on Decay, Waterfall and Spectrogram ?
> I feel that it is stuck on 1/48, no way to change it. ...


Bonne année et bonne santé, Alain.

Dans son sommaire des changements, je note celui-ci :


JohnM said:


> ...
> *24th October 2010*
> 
> Reduced waterfall smoothing from 1/24 octave to 1/48 octave


J'en conclus que le degré de nivellement est figé pour le graphe en cascade et probablement pour les deux autres. Après avoir changé le degré de nivellement, je ne vois l'effet que sur les graphes de SPL & Phase et de Délai en groupe. 

Cordialement,
Bill


----------



## almat

Bonjour Bill,

Merci pour tes voeux, je te souhaite beaucoup de petits et grands bonheurs pour cette Année 2011.

Et merci encore pour cette instructive réponse, j'avais fait une recherche sur le thread, mais je n'ai sans doute pas été assez patient pour lire toutes les réponses. 

En fait il me semble avoir obtenu une réponse au 1/3 la première fois que j'ai ouvert et générer la fenêtre Waterfall, cependant après modification du graphe par "Limits" et "Apply Settings", le graphe est resté au 1/48.

En dehors de ces questions de détail je n'ai pas rencontré pour l'instant le moindre problème d'utilisation, le logiciel m'apparaît très stable 

Cordialement
Alain


----------



## JohnM

Re the 1/48 smoothing, see post #5.


----------



## divez

I guess you have heard it before but you can't get enough cred for creating this fantastic piece of FREE software!

You made speakebuilding truly fun again for me and you make true rta look like the stoneage!

Great stuff and keep up the awesome work!
You deserve a medal 


I found 1 bug though and searched for it and can find a solution when searching this thread.

When opening a saved file by clicking on the saved file and REW is shut down under osx 10.6.5
When clicking saved files i get: 

File is not in a Room EQ V5.00 compatible .mdat format.
Exception java.lang.NullpointerException

Opening the file by clicking on the saved file when REW is opened results in correct loading of the file.


----------



## avpman

*DCX2496*

Is the DCX2496 supported in this beta version? The options to send and retrieve filters omn the EQ panel are grayed out. I'm looking forward to getting a DC2496, but not until it's supported (or at least functioning).
Thanks for all your hard work!


----------



## Sonnie

paulspencer said:


> There's a lot of things I like about the new version. There's just one thing I miss - being able to overlay in the main window.


Me too! :hissyfit:


----------



## avpman

Me three!


----------



## JohnM

*Re: DCX2496*



avpman said:


> Is the DCX2496 supported in this beta version? The options to send and retrieve filters omn the EQ panel are grayed out. I'm looking forward to getting a DCX2496, but not until it's supported (or at least functioning).


The filter shapes are supported, but there is no communication to a DCX so you need to enter the settings yourself.


----------



## avpman

*Re: DCX2496*



JohnM said:


> The filter shapes are supported, but there is no communication to a DCX so you need to enter the settings yourself.


Is the communication option on the list for the final version? How long do you think it will be before the communication ability is implemented?

Thanks again for all the hard work on this version.


----------



## JohnM

*Re: DCX2496*



avpman said:


> Is the communication option on the list for the final version? How long do you think it will be before the communication ability is implemented?


It is on the list, but it is not near the top, more likely months off than weeks.


----------



## kflory

It will be faster to enter them yourself manually 

Actually it is not that hard/tedious and only takes a few minutes (having done it myself).

There are some limits as to the resolution for the filters that the DCX will let you select so what you actually enter may be off by a few Hz.


----------



## insanegenius

Export - filter impulse responce as wave - is not working. It goes to the select sceen and once you pick mono, stereo, etc and click ok. It hangs on "Generating impulse response" waited a long time and nothing happened. In version 4.11 however I can export.


----------



## JohnM

insanegenius said:


> Export - filter impulse responce as wave - is not working. It goes to the select sceen and once you pick mono, stereo, etc and click ok. It hangs on "Generating impulse response" waited a long time and nothing happened. In version 4.11 however I can export.


Thanks, that happens if the selected filter set does not have any filters (or any it does have are disabled or have zero gains so they have no effect). I've added a warning message for the next beta.


----------



## Sonnie

There have been several instances where the alternate windows will not come to the top of the main REW screen. For example, I have the main REW screen maximized... I click on Overlays and the windows pops up on top of the maximized main REW screen. I go back to REW... do more measurements, etc., etc. Over a period of time, it comes to a point that when I click on the Overlays icon, the Overlays screen will not be on top... I have to minimize REW to see it. I can restart REW, no fix... restart the laptop, all is back to normal... for a while. This may simply a computer issue, but I do not recall it ever happening with anything else and I can sometimes have fifty-eleven windows open, all varying sizes.


----------



## JohnM

Sonnie said:


> There have been several instances where the alternate windows will not come to the top of the main REW screen.


I heard this from another user yesterday as well, in addition to your previous report. I'm speculating it is a Java V6 issue running under Windows, as I run the development code mainly under V5 (to ensure compatibility with earlier Java installations) and I have never seen this, despite running REW several hours a day. There is nothing in the code that can cause this, particularly given that you can quit and restart REW and the problem is still there. Hopefully this will be fixed in a Java update.


----------



## Nemesis.ie

I see this too and also windows opening all black and hovering the mouse around reveals the icons and other such weirdness - it seems the newer the Java the worse this is getting. :blink:

I even had by graphics drivers crash today with REW yet games and everything else were fine.

Is it possible to update the SDK to v6 and see if that works better?

Thanks!


----------



## JohnM

Nemesis.ie said:


> Is it possible to update the SDK to v6 and see if that works better?


The code actually runs on whatever Java runtime environment is installed on the machine, my use of a V5 runtime for checking is just to make sure there are no backwards compatibility problems, it does not impose any restrictions or limitations on later Java runtimes or alter the code itself.


----------



## avpman

Does the DCX2496 round/up the frequencies? Also, how many equalizers are there per channel? I'm thinking about getting one and use it for my three front channels. However in that mode it looks like the DCX can only split each incoming channel into two outputs (hi & lo). If I'm limited to one full range output I'd be limited to the max number of EQs. I'm also wondering if I do let it split one input to two outputs (hi & lo) could I combine the two outputs (with an appropriate Y connector) to one single full range output? I hope I explained that right.


----------



## insanegenius

> insanegenius wrote:
> Export - filter impulse responce as wave - is not working. It goes to the select sceen and once you pick mono, stereo, etc and click ok. It hangs on "Generating impulse response" waited a long time and nothing happened. In version 4.11 however I can export.
> 
> Thanks, that happens if the selected filter set does not have any filters (or any it does have are disabled or have zero gains so they have no effect). I've added a warning message for the next beta.
> 
> Read more: REW V5 Beta feedback - Page 51 - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


Thanks. That worked.


----------



## JohnM

paulspencer said:


> There's a lot of things I like about the new version. There's just one thing I miss - being able to overlay in the main window.





Sonnie said:


> Me too! :hissyfit:





avpman said:


> Me three!


Just for you guys, in the next beta I've added an overlay graph in the main window to show SPL and/or impedance measurement overlays


----------



## Sonnie

:kiss:


----------



## counsil

Sonnie said:


> :kiss:


+1


----------



## counsil

Does the latest beta release of REW 5 utilize the sound card and microphone calibration files when using the SPL meter?


----------



## JohnM

counsil said:


> Does the latest beta release of REW 5 utilize the sound card and microphone calibration files when using the SPL meter?


Yes, it does, though you would still need an SPL calibrator or a known calibrated reference to set the correct level if you need to make measurements with calibrated absolute levels.


----------



## counsil

JohnM said:


> Yes, it does, though you would still need an SPL calibrator or a known calibrated reference to set the correct level if you need to make measurements with calibrated absolute levels.


Great. Thanks. I knew it was on your list to utilize the sound card and microphone calibration files when using the SPL meter functionality at some point. I just couldn't remember if you had implemented it yet.

I just put in an order for a calibrated Galaxy CM-140 from Cross Spectrum Labs (Herb).

doug.


----------



## counsil

How's the latest beta coming along? I'm anxious to test out the overlay capabilities in the main window.

:dancebanana:


----------



## JohnM

counsil said:


> How's the latest beta coming along? I'm anxious to test out the overlay capabilities in the main window.


It is getting close, I'm finishing off the work on Thiele-Small parameter calculation.


----------



## Richard1

That's great. When will the version with the Thiele-Small parameter calculation published?


----------



## JohnM

Richard1 said:


> When will the version with the Thiele-Small parameter calculation published?


Right after I finish it


----------



## JohnM

divez said:


> When opening a saved file by clicking on the saved file and REW is shut down under osx 10.6.5
> When clicking saved files i get:
> 
> File is not in a Room EQ V5.00 compatible .mdat format.
> Exception java.lang.NullpointerException
> 
> Opening the file by clicking on the saved file when REW is opened results in correct loading of the file.


That has been fixed for the next release, thanks.


----------



## avpman

*Re: DCX2496/FBQ2496*



JohnM said:


> It is on the list, but it is not near the top, more likely months off than weeks.


How about download to the FBQ-2496? Is it functioning in the beta? I haven't selected an equalizer yet and the FBQ2496 appears to have the most number of filters and the greatest bandwidth and db cut/gain of the bunch.

I am assuming you download one channel at a time? If so, I'd be using two FBQ's, one for L/R and the second one for Center and Sub.


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## JohnM

*Re: DCX2496/FBQ2496*



avpman said:


> How about download to the FBQ-2496? Is it functioning in the beta? I haven't selected an equalizer yet and the FBQ2496 appears to have the most number of filters and the greatest bandwidth and db cut/gain of the bunch.
> 
> I am assuming you download one channel at a time? If so, I'd be using two FBQ's, one for L/R and the second one for Center and Sub.


Yes, filter transfer to BFD1124P and FBQ2496 has been in REW since V3. Filters can be downloaded to either channel. FBQ2496 only supports 1 set of filters, whereas BFD1124P supports 10 sets, which might be useful if you wanted different filter settings for different circumstances.


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## avpman

*Re: DCX2496/FBQ2496*

One set of filters VS 10 sets of filters? Like 10 "banks" where all filters could be adjusted and stored for recall; Classical, Movies, Rock, etc?


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## JohnM

*Re: DCX2496/FBQ2496*



avpman said:


> One set of filters VS 10 sets of filters? Like 10 "banks" where all filters could be adjusted and stored for recall; Classical, Movies, Rock, etc?


Yes


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## JohnM

The latest beta is now available, details of the changes in the first post of this thread.


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## counsil

John,

I have only been testing the latest for beta for an hour or so now, but I really like the "All SPL" tab in the main window.

I hate to ask, but can you add the "Average the Responses" button to the "All SPL" tab as well (just like it is in the Arithmetic tab in the Overlays window)? In the end, the averages end up being available in the main window (and thus the All SPL tab) anyways, so this would just be a convenience thing.

I know a lot of folks use averaging and it seems to be buried in the Overlays window.

I just don't want a lot of duplication (of code/logic/options/etc) all over the place in REW.

What do you think?


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## Nemesis.ie

*Re: DCX2496/FBQ2496*



avpman said:


> How about download to the FBQ-2496? Is it functioning in the beta? I haven't selected an equalizer yet and the FBQ2496 appears to have the most number of filters and the greatest bandwidth and db cut/gain of the bunch.
> 
> I am assuming you download one channel at a time? If so, I'd be using two FBQ's, one for L/R and the second one for Center and Sub.


Take a look at the MiniDSP (http://www.minidsp.com) I've been using one recently and it seems much better than the Behringer units from a usage PoV. It has a higher bit depth but lower sampling frequency (but that's probably better for the bass region) and can be controlled live on your computer too. It's also tiny and can be customised to do different things just by downloading new profiles.

I just ran an EQ prediction with both the DCX and MiniDSP and the MiniDSP seems to produce a better fit, especially below 30Hz. I suggest you load up your own room measurements and compare predictions for the various boxes and see which matches your needs best.

Back on topic - the new release seems to load a bit faster, also, I updated the BIOS on my HD5870 graphics card last week and (touch wood) the strange black windows seem to have gone away (tested before installing the new version too).


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## Nemesis.ie

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - file opening request*

Hi John,

Would it be possible to allow selection of multiple files in the file open window?

It would be really handy to be able to pick more than one and have them all open in one go.

Cheers.


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## JohnM

*Re: REW V5 Beta feedback - file opening request*



Nemesis.ie said:


> Would it be possible to allow selection of multiple files in the file open window? It would be really handy to be able to pick more than one and have them all open in one go.


I'll look at that, in the meantime you can open multiple files by dragging them out of an Explorer window onto the REW window.


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## JohnM

counsil said:


> I hate to ask, but can you add the "Average the Responses" button to the "All SPL" tab as well (just like it is in the Arithmetic tab in the Overlays window)? In the end, the averages end up being available in the main window (and thus the All SPL tab) anyways, so this would just be a convenience thing.


Makes sense, I've added the trace offset function into the Trace Arithmetic graph and used that in the main window instead of the SPL overlay (and removed the Trace Arithmetic graph from the overlay window). That will be in the next release.


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## O'soleil

Tried to install this new beta but, unfortunately, I got a problem (Windows 7)
ERROR 91 : EXE section digital signature check failed
PROBLEM : 'wizardinstall.exe' is damaged

Well, just to share the issue in case I wouldn't be alone... I'll come back in a couple of days and try again...


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## JohnM

O'soleil said:


> Tried to install this new beta but, unfortunately, I got a problem (Windows 7)
> ERROR 91 : EXE section digital signature check failed
> PROBLEM : 'wizardinstall.exe' is damaged
> 
> Well, just to share the issue in case I wouldn't be alone... I'll come back in a couple of days and try again...


That indicates an incomplete download, we have had a few reports of it lately, try downloading with another browser or just retry the download until it works.


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## DanTheMan

John, thank you again for all this work! REW is even handier now than I ever thought possible and it seems you are taking it further. I like the way the newest version is looking. 

Keep up the good work and again many thanks,

Dan


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## O'soleil

John, thanks.
I successfully installed the last version this morning.


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## masterofphysical

doesn't have input signal (in REW Preferences) on MAC OS X with TC Konnekt 24D (firewire). Signal is present in TC Near software but in REW shows -128db all the time.


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## JohnM

masterofphysical said:


> doesn't have input signal (in REW Preferences) on MAC OS X with TC Konnekt 24D (firewire). Signal is present in TC Near software but in REW shows -128db all the time.


Under OS X Java applications cannot access the inputs of firewire-connected soundcards, unfortunately.


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## Bruce

John,

Is it possible you could run and post a quick MD5 hash signature for each new download file you post so I can tell if I have a good download file before I try to install ?

Thanks for all your inspired work for better sound !!


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## almat

Hello,

Is it possible to create a check box to deselect all the check boxes in All SPL ?
I think it would be very useful, with a 30 measures set it takes time to visualize only 3 ou 4 ...


Alain


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## JohnM

almat said:


> Is it possible to create a check box to deselect all the check boxes in All SPL ?


Right click in the legend area...


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## almat

Thanks John,

Fine, nice, great !!!!
:sn::sn::sn:


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## Richard1

Hi John, I wanted to ask, or do not wish to measure the distortion with stepped sine, output the graph distortion / frequency

Richard


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## BETO

Hi every one.. Doesany microphone works with the slp program? Or it must be a special one.. If its so where do i find one? I made it work with the acer mini lap microphone but the spl sound in cars only get trought 98 db no more.. Is it for the mic?


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## maxmercy

John,

I was using v5 last night, and I could not find where the system delay is in the measurement info panel. I have the proper loopback connection and it is selected in the analysis tab under preferences....

I know it may be right under my nose, but I cannot find it....

JSS


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## paulspencer

How do you get plots to overlay in the main window? As I understand, this was taken out then put back in ... right?


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## laser188139

paulspencer said:


> How do you get plots to overlay in the main window? ...


In the latest v5 beta, the All SPL view of v4 was restored to the Main window. Select All SPL and you see just the SPL curves overlayed, and select / deselect which ones you want to see at the bottom, just as you would in the Overlay window. 

Bill


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## JohnM

maxmercy said:


> I was using v5 last night, and I could not find where the system delay is in the measurement info panel. I have the proper loopback connection and it is selected in the analysis tab under preferences....


It is the last entry in the list, after "Peak".


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## johnr

Hello,

I ordered a XENYX 502 and a ECM8000 and wanted to use the new "use other channel as loopback" option. I know help file covers doing a soundcard calibreation with a preamp, but I don't recall it addressing using the preamp as part of the optional loopback feature (for example right channel as mic and left as loopback).

Maybe it will be obvious when the equipment show up but it is not clear to me how that will work.


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## laser188139

johnr said:


> ... I ordered a XENYX 502 and a ECM8000 and wanted to use the new "use other channel as loopback" option. I know help file covers doing a soundcard calibreation with a preamp, but I don't recall it addressing using the preamp as part of the optional loopback feature (for example right channel as mic and left as loopback). ...


Since you are in the v5 beta thread, I'll assume you are using v5, where the option is now called "Use Loopback as Timing Reference". 

You are right, some go to the trouble to build a soundcard calibration file running the analog output through the preamp and back to the analog inputs. Most have found this does not significantly change the measurements, that the preamp does not significantly modify the response. It is trickier than it sounds, if you want to actually run the signal through the microphone amplifier stage in the preamp, as you need to attenuate the signal first. 

As far as using the left channel for timing, you cable this the same regardless of which way you built the soundcard. Just run the left channel output, shown open in the cabling diagram, back to the left channel input. The purpose is just to provide an absolute time reference for measuring the incoming signals. There is no reason this time reference should run through the pre-amp, which is busy amplifying the real signal from the microphone. 

Bill


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## johnr

laser188139 said:


> Since you are in the v5 beta thread, I'll assume you are using v5, where the option is now called "Use Loopback as Timing Reference".


Yes I am using v5 and am referring to "Loopback as Timing Reference". Regarding the soundcard calibration, I had seen the thread where it was shown that the mic stage introduced insignificant impact. However, I was still planning on including preamp in loopback.

As far as using the v5 feature to have other channel as absolute timing reference (always connected), you are saying there is no reason to have preamp in the signal path. Is that because the processing latency introduced by the preamp is insignificant or is it because the latency introduced (assuming there is some) is irrelevant when used in the timing reference signal path? I hope that makes sense.

Thanks,

John


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## paulspencer

Thanks Bill


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## laser188139

johnr said:


> ... Is that because the processing latency introduced by the preamp is insignificant or is it because the latency introduced (assuming there is some) is irrelevant when used in the timing reference signal path? ...


I suggest it is irrelevant because you are generally interested in the relative timing of the speakers -- this is why we need an absolute starting point. As long as the delay through the preamp is the same, whichever speaker is measured, it does not impact our ability to do relative comparisons. (My Denon receiver does the same thing, in that it adjusts the other speakers' timing relative to the one that is the farthest away.) Within REW, one can subtract any fixed time value you like from the impulse curves, which can make it easier to compare phase curves by reducing how rapidly the curves shift with frequency. 

Bill


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## johnr

That makes sense.  Thanks for the detail.

John


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## maxmercy

JohnM said:


> It is the last entry in the list, after "Peak".
> View attachment 27292


Thanks! Any chance that sub-10Hz can be added to the sinewave frequency generator in the next iteration?

JSS


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## JohnM

maxmercy said:


> Any chance that sub-10Hz can be added to the sinewave frequency generator in the next iteration?


Afraid not, the current scheme allows tone generation at very low processor loading but has some limitations as a result, one of which is not accommodating very low frequencies.


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## JohnM

The official V5 release files are now available from the main download thread. Thanks to everyone who tried the beta releases and helped with tracking down bugs and suggesting features.


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## kflory

Congratulation on the release John!

And thanks again for sharing all of the hard work you have put into this with us. :bigsmile:


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## 300Z

Thank you for the new release John.

Haven't tested all the features yet but so far it's working great on linux. :T


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## Dent

John, just wondering when installing all these betas and now the final version, is it OK to just install on top of the previous beta or is a clean install needed?


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## JohnM

Dent said:


> John, just wondering when installing all these betas and now the final version, is it OK to just install on top of the previous beta or is a clean install needed?


Just install on top.


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## counsil

Were there any changes between this latest version and the last beta that are worth mentioning? I assume not.

doug.


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## johnr

counsil said:


> Were there any changes between this latest version and the last beta that are worth mentioning? I assume not.
> 
> doug.


Launch REW and when there is a new version it gives you a detailed list of what has changed.


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## Nemesis.ie

Hi John,

Thanks for the latest release. I see that opening multiple files from the open file list is now enabled. Nice!


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## JohnM

All, I will now close this thread, please use the main forum for feedback on V5.


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