# Too many decisions.....a little more guidance



## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Ok, here is the long and the short of it. 

I have a Bar/Theater area that only has 1 row of seating
The seating is 13' from the screen location
The ceiling height is 8'
The lighting is fully controlled
Projector ceiling mounted 12'-13' from the screen area
Screen size wanted is 110" Acoustic, Speakers are already wired behind the screen area.

Which projector in the $2,000 Range would fit this area for dark gaming, dark movies and slightly lit sports.
Question also goes for the screen. I was thinking Elite EZFrame AcousticPro 110" which would fill my entire wall.

I was leaning toward the Epson 8700UB because of the free lamp and their lamps being fairly cheap. But, other than that it was the LG. This is the last time I will ask this question before I purchase so any and all input is greatly appreciated.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ive been very happy with my Panasonic AE4000u and you should be able to get a free bulb with it as well.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Ive been very happy with my Panasonic AE4000u and you should be able to get a free bulb with it as well.


I had thought of the AE4000U but I haven't found anyone giving a free extra lamp. Other than that, the lamp cost is $100 over the Epson. I will be using it a lot for more than just a movie night once a week so I want something with a great pic and economical when it comes to bulb replacement.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Visual Apex has it without the free extra bulb but its also well under $2000 so you save there.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Visual Apex has it without the free extra bulb but its also well under $2000 so you save there.


I wouldn't say its well under at $1,999.00. I think there is a coupon for an extra $25 off but that doesn't offset the bulb price.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Ok, here poses another question. I just found out that Epson has their new model coming out the same time I will be buying one. The Epson 5010 would be comparable to the 8700UB that i was previously thinking about. Besides the addition of 3D which I am not really too big on anyways, would there be any reason to go with the 5010 over the 8700UB when 3D is not something I am interested in.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

IMO new models being released is the _perfect_ time to buy last years model. As far as being a performance upgrade, beyond the added ability to do 3D, you might want to do your research and see if the newer model is a considerable step-up in performance. If not youre likely to find a screamin deal on last years models and be just as happy.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

TypeA said:


> IMO new models being released is the perfect time to buy last years model. As far as being a performance upgrade, beyond the added ability to do 3D, you might want to do your research and see if the newer model is a considerable step-up in performance. If not youre likely to find a screamin deal on last years models and be just as happy.



That's pretty much what I was thinking. I don't see any real distinctive changes other than 3D, changed their lens, color presets and split screen capability. I hope the bottom drops out of the 8700UB price. Then again since they didn't replace any projectors in the $2Gs range they might not lower it that much.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Oh, and I almost forgot, they bumped up the lumens to 2400 and extended the lamp range to 6,000hrs.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Dont hold to much faith in the lumens or bulb length output. There are no real guidelines that manufacturers have to follow when they list those numbers. Wait till a real bench test is done by a third party before buying into that.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> Dont hold to much faith in the lumens or bulb length output. There are no real guidelines that manufacturers have to follow when they list those numbers. Wait till a real bench test is done by a third party before buying into that.


Agreed, You can pretty much be sure you will get 1500-2000hrs out of a bulb and anything after that is gravy.....:wave:


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

The Optoma HD33 is said to be a very good projector. A quick look at one site puts the bulb price at $179 vice $219 for the Epson.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Andre said:


> The Optoma HD33 is said to be a very good projector. A quick look at one site puts the bulb price at $179 vice $219 for the Epson.


I haven't researched the Optomas too much. ProjectorPreople keep trying to push the LG CF181D and I cannot figure out why.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I owned an Optoma rear projection back in the day, beautiful TV. If I ever do go with front projection it will be one that I look at, along with the Panny Tony mentioned.

However, by the time my current TV kicks the bucket LEDs with no bulb change needed will be the norm


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Whoa 6,0000 hour lamp, thats pretty impressive. Not that that would sell me as Id be pretty skeptical of a lamp giving good results with those kind of hours. I dont know, maybe technology has really come a long ways since I was in the market, but 3000 hours gives me the itch to swap lamps regardless of what the manufacture says, especially on my dlp.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

BMoore20 said:


> I haven't researched the Optomas too much. ProjectorPreople keep trying to push the LG CF181D and I cannot figure out why.


And youre taking the time to read the reviews at projector central right? They are my favorite for reviews. Seems they gave the cf181d a mixed-bag kinda performance. Its cool its sxrd though, black levels would certainly beat anything in my house. What kind of price are they offering you? Just curious.


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## joonbug99 (Feb 24, 2011)

I have the exact same set up in my basement. The room is 15 x 24 x 8 I have an Elite AT screen 100" I have the panasonic 4000 it is AWESOME I watch movies (in he dark) and sports (in a bar light atmosphere) The panasonic is the best bang for the buck IMO!!!


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

TypeA said:


> And youre taking the time to read the reviews at projector central right? They are my favorite for reviews. Seems they gave the cf181d a mixed-bag kinda performance. Its cool its sxrd though, black levels would certainly beat anything in my house. What kind of price are they offering you? Just curious.


They haven't really wheeled and dealed with me yet, I just asked them which one in the 2G range they would recommend and it was always the LG. they said that on paper the Epson 8700UB would win but in their honest opinion it would be LG, 4000U and then the Epson in that order in real world scenarios. All 3 projectors are in my budget and all 3 have mixed reviews. All 3 really hurt my head when reading review after review after review. Lol


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

TypeA said:


> And youre taking the time to read the reviews at projector central right? They are my favorite for reviews. Seems they gave the cf181d a mixed-bag kinda performance. Its cool its sxrd though, black levels would certainly beat anything in my house. What kind of price are they offering you? Just curious.


I usually go to projectorreviews.com for my reviews and I also go to projector central. They all give mixed reviews on the LG. I will check it out tonight. Any certain model?


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Andre said:


> The Optoma HD33 is said to be a very good projector. A quick look at one site puts the bulb price at $179 vice $219 for the Epson.


I checked out the review on the HD33 and it is also mixed, go figure huh. 3D is cool that it is passive VS active but I don't really get into 3D as of now. Also I am very afraid of the rainbow effect. I went to a theater store in CBus and they had a Mitsubishi DLP set up and I noticed the rainbow effect right from the get go. I really don't want that to happen which is why I was going with the LCD or SXRD. Then again I have read that that doesn't really happen anymore due to the RPM going faster than older models. Not too sure on that one though.:sarcastic:


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Ok, so I have been also thinking about the screen and I have to go with an acoustic screen for my setup but should I go with a 16:9 Normal 110" or go with the new Lunette series from Elite with the 16:9 Acoustic material? My buddy said it will put you in the action but I am not 100% sure of that or the reason for having a curved screen. Is this just my stupidity or what?


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

My opinion get the 8700ub no worry about DLP rainbow effect. It comes with a mail in for a free bulb works out to 8000 hr bulb life. Milage may very I Guess I might get 6000 hrs. Just in case.  , 

2 year warranty and excellent customer service. 
Get a surge protector/ battery backup for the projector. To help save the bulb.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

magic said:


> My opinion get the 8700ub no worry about DLP rainbow effect. It comes with a mail in for a free bulb works out to 8000 hr bulb life. Milage may very I Guess I might get 6000 hrs. Just in case.  ,
> 
> 2 year warranty and excellent customer service.
> Get a surge protector/ battery backup for the projector. To help save the bulb.


Never even thought of a battery backup but that makes total sense for allowing the fan to cool the lamp.


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

They don't cost much. 

The fan on the 8700 runs for about 1 -2 minutes. I don't know about the other projectors.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Well, I just figured my budget again on the theater area and I can actually go with a $3,000 projector instead of a $2,000 projector. Now that being said, should you go for a better projector ie Panasonic AE7000 or Epson 5010 or still go with one of the $2,000 projectors with a better screen. Screen I am probably going to go with is the Elite Lunette 16:9 AcousticPRO. My screen has to be acoustic.:dontknow:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Given the success of the Panasonic AE4000 I am willing to bet that the 7000 will be that much better. Panasonic has a great track record and very little if any issues, they get my vote.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

magic said:


> My opinion get the 8700ub no worry about DLP rainbow effect. It comes with a mail in for a free bulb works out to 8000 hr bulb life. Milage may very I Guess I might get 6000 hrs. Just in case.  ,
> 
> 2 year warranty and excellent customer service.
> Get a surge protector/ battery backup for the projector. To help save the bulb.


A surge suppressor is essential, IME. Battery backup is not. The concern for damage to a lamp with a power outage is very much over blown. It will only occur rarely and when it does, the probability of damage to the lamp is very low anyway. Post power down cooling is more for bringing the temp down for a restart and keeping the heat from dissipating to other components than protecting the lamp. I discussed this with engineers from Philips and Osram years ago and the told me that the initial concern for thermal lag that led manufacturers to assume post power cooling was useful turned out to not be an issue for the lamp as much as related parts. Once the arc is extinguished the lamp temp does not increase even with no cooling, since the cooling is indirect with respect to the arc envelope. The entire lamp assy stays hot, and can transfer heat to other components but for the rare occasion that the power goes out it just is not a big concern.

The other issue with battery backup is that some power supplies would misbehave on the very noisy output of some cheap UPS units. Circuits with zero crossing detection for minimizing inrush current have been known to not start on some battery backup units. Some Panasonic PDPs in the early generations simply would not run on some UPS units. I think most of those issue are in the past, however, but I would still use a true sin wave output device if I used one at all.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

lcaillo said:


> A surge suppressor is essential, IME. Battery backup is not. The concern for damage to a lamp with a power outage is very much over blown. It will only occur rarely and when it does, the probability of damage to the lamp is very low anyway. Post power down cooling is more for bringing the temp down for a restart and keeping the heat from dissipating to other components than protecting the lamp. I discussed this with engineers from Philips and Osram years ago and the told me that the initial concern for thermal lag that led manufacturers to assume post power cooling was useful turned out to not be an issue for the lamp as much as related parts. Once the arc is extinguished the lamp temp does not increase even with no cooling, since the cooling is indirect with respect to the arc envelope. The entire lamp assy stays hot, and can transfer heat to other components but for the rare occasion that the power goes out it just is not a big concern.
> 
> The other issue with battery backup is that some power supplies would misbehave on the very noisy output of some cheap UPS units. Circuits with zero crossing detection for minimizing inrush current have been known to not start on some battery backup units. Some Panasonic PDPs in the early generations simply would not run on some UPS units. I think most of those issue are in the past, however, but I would still use a true sin wave output device if I used one at all.


I know I am def. going with a surge protector but I highly doubt I will go with battery backup. That is some good info though.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

lcaillo said:


> Post power down cooling is more for bringing the temp down for a restart and keeping the heat from dissipating to other components than protecting the lamp. I discussed this with engineers from Philips and Osram years ago and the told me that the initial concern for thermal lag that led manufacturers to assume post power cooling was useful turned out to not be an issue for the lamp as much as related parts.


First Ive heard of this, apparently Ive been under a misconception for many years, figures. :doh: 

Not that I was ever a stickler for having either of my projos on battery backup but its nice to know that a sudden loss of power is unlikely to adversely affect lamp life.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

I can't wait until the Panasonic AE7000 and the Epson 5010 come out so I can get some good reviews before I purchase. Is there any other projectors in the $3,000 range that would be a better projector in anyone's opinion?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

BMoore20 said:


> I can't wait until the Panasonic AE7000 and the Epson 5010 come out so I can get some good reviews before I purchase. Is there any other projectors in the $3,000 range that would be a better projector in anyone's opinion?


At this point not really although JVC and Sony have some in that range that you may want to consider as well.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

BMoore20 said:


> I can't wait until the Panasonic AE7000 and the Epson 5010 come out so I can get some good reviews before I purchase. Is there any other projectors in the $3,000 range that would be a better projector in anyone's opinion?


You stated you need an acoustic screen and thats part of your $3k budget, or did I read incorrectly? Those type screens can be spendy but if you truly have a $3k budget for _just_ the projector a LCOS model from either JVC or Sony will beat any LCD projector. My choice is JVC.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

TypeA said:


> You stated you need an acoustic screen and thats part of your $3k budget, or did I read incorrectly? Those type screens can be spendy but if you truly have a $3k budget for just the projector a LCOS model from either JVC or Sony will beat any LCD projector. My choice is JVC.


Sorry, I have $3,000 for the projector and about $1,000 for a screen. I was going to go with the Elite Screens Lunette series AcousticPro 110". It's about $750 online but it is currently backordered.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Since 3D is not important to you, you have good light control, and your budget is in the range of LCOS I would seriously consider JVC. LCOS will give better blacks and contrast but wont be as bright as a LCD. Sadly JVC is not as easy to find as they used to be and you might be forced to go used. I found a RS10 on videogon for $1650 and a RS20 on ebay for $2650. Even if you have to purchase a new lamp you would end up with a superior projector to the LCDs youre considering (3D not withstanding). Again, this is all just my opinion but I do recommend you read some reviews on them...

http://www.projectorcentral.com/jvc_dla_rs10_rs20_review.htm


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

TypeA said:


> Since 3D is not important to you, you have good light control, and your budget is in the range of LCOS I would seriously consider JVC. LCOS will give better blacks and contrast but wont be as bright as a LCD. Sadly JVC is not as easy to find as they used to be and you might be forced to go used. I found a RS10 on videogon for $1650 and a RS20 on ebay for $2650. Even if you have to purchase a new lamp you would end up with a superior projector to the LCDs youre considering (3D not withstanding). Again, this is all just my opinion but I do recommend you read some reviews on them...
> 
> http://www.projectorcentral.com/jvc_dla_rs10_rs20_review.htm


Thanks for the information. In will check then out.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Well, I guess I will just have to pull the trigger on one of these projectors within the next 30-45 days. Hopefully I can pin one down in that time frame but realistically, I think that no matter which one I pick I will be MORE than happy with it. Can't wait to get back in the house that I haven't lived in for over a year. My in-laws bought us a new popcorn machine for the theater and the kids are itching to try it out. I really appreciate all the help everyone has to give on this forum, I must say everyone sure does seem quite knowledgeable about home theaters.


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## BMoore20 (May 25, 2011)

Oh, 1 more thing. The new 480hz sub-field on the new Panny 7000 and the Epson 5010 will make it much closer to the 600hz of a plasma for sports and fast moving objects correct? I have been told that it will not have the same clarity for fast action and sports as a plasma, or even close to it. There would still be a blur on footballs rocketing through the air. Any truth to that? It has to be at least better than 120hz.


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