# Bridging Onkyo Receivers!



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Hello All,
I have discussed bridging the Onkyo 876 to the mains with JJ and he explained in easy to understand terms how to do just that. My question is are all receivers capable of bridging the mains or is it just particular models, and how can you tell without reading the manual?
Thanks guys for the time.
Jeff


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Do you mean Biamping the rear channels of a 7.1 AVR to the front speakers?:scratch:


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

bambino said:


> Do you mean Biamping the rear channels of a 7.1 AVR to the front speakers?:scratch:


Bambino,
No that's not what I meant, I wanted to bridge the front with the back surrounds speaker outputs to my mains to increase the power output. I know 876 does that, Onkyo's other receivers 1007, 3007 and 5007 also have the capability to bridge more output to the mains, all other receivers in their line can not be bridged. I found this out right after the original post. Thanks Bambino for your reply.
Best refards, Jeff


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

As you have found, not all receivers can be bridged like this. In fact, most cannot. There is no way to be sure other than to consult the documetation for a particular unit, but I would assume not for most.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> As you have found, not all receivers can be bridged like this. In fact, most cannot. There is no way to be sure other than to consult the documetation for a particular unit, but I would assume not for most.


I agree, through documentation is how I found out which of the Onkyo line can be bridged, as you say most can not. For me among other things it was the determining factor in my decision to purchase the 876. Thanks Icaillo for the reply.
Jeff


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

needspeed52 said:


> Bambino,
> No that's not what I meant, I wanted to bridge the front with the back surrounds speaker outputs to my mains to increase the power output. I know 876 does that, Onkyo's other receivers 1007, 3007 and 5007 also have the capability to bridge more output to the mains, all other receivers in their line can not be bridged. I found this out right after the original post. Thanks Bambino for your reply.
> Best refards, Jeff


Just checking, i have never heard of this feature with an AVR before only outboards. Thats a pretty cool feature, say your lacking in the power department for a set of power hungry speakers.:T


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

bambino said:


> Just checking, i have never heard of this feature with an AVR before only outboards. Thats a pretty cool feature, say your lacking in the power department for a set of power hungry speakers.:T


I only found out about it myself doing some receiver research with measured output with all channels driven, I wondered if there was a way to use the amps in a receiver that were not being used, and I've been talking with JJ about the Onkyo 876 and he told that the 876 could be bridged for that exact application, it is a cool feature, I don't believe there are many receivers that can.
Jeff


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Yeah, this is the first i've heard of it. Pretty awesome feature! I've only heard of biamping the rear channels as that is how most are set up.:T
So, how much power did you start at and then end up with by bridging?


----------



## recruit (May 9, 2009)

The way I see it is this, if you think of stereo pre/amp bridging it will make it into a mono block meaning you will only have one channel to use, not all manufacturers offer this feature but I have also read somewhere I cannot remember exactly where but it can have a detrimental effect on the amp by doing this, meaning it may not be as efficient when running difficult loads.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

When you bridge an amp you are uusing the same power supply that you would be for stereo. The limits of that supply are still the same in terms of current. What you are doing is using both channels out of phase so that when current is flowing out of one channel it is flowing into the other. This allows for the two output sections to essentially operate in series, doubling the voltage swing of the amp. This gives you more power as long as the power supply can deliver the current, but at lower impedances you run into this as a problem. The rule of thumb is that a bridged amp is useful into twice the lowest impedance of the stereo mode.


----------



## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

If you calibrated your speakers you should be getting the proper power to your fronts already. If you are lacking power you will need to get an external amp. What is being described here I don't see making an audible difference in performance.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

lsiberian said:


> If you calibrated your speakers you should be getting the proper power to your fronts already. If you are lacking power you will need to get an external amp. What is being described here I don't see making an audible difference in performance.



My speakers are calibrated and are driven with an external amp, I don't believe I am lacking power to the mains, as far as the 876 goes I do not have it yet, just making a statement that the 876 can be bridged to channel more power to the mains. Onkyo advices that in bridge mode the mains should be a 8 Ohm load. As far as making an audible difference I can't say as I don't have the 876 yet, and what the power increase is in bridged mode is I don't know. I just think this is a nice feature or option to have, with the 876 in unbridged mode from the specs, it seems to be able to drive difficult loads. The 876 will be a big upgrade to my legacy Onkyo 702.
Jeff


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Indeed only Onkyo's most powerful Models offer Bridging. If fact, only the THX Ultra2 Models offer this feature and not every one as the TX-NR1007 does not offer this Feature.

For those with a 5.1 HT, it really does offer some added juice to the Front Speakers. Especially nice for 2 Channel fans.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

recruit said:


> The way I see it is this, if you think of stereo pre/amp bridging it will make it into a mono block meaning you will only have one channel to use, not all manufacturers offer this feature but I have also read somewhere I cannot remember exactly where but it can have a detrimental effect on the amp by doing this, meaning it may not be as efficient when running difficult loads.


John, according to Onkyo that is exactly what happens, a mono block configuration for driving the mains, there is also a warning not to use speakers that are difficult to drive, in that case it could be detrimental. In unbridged mode the 876 has the rated power to drive 4 Ohm loads. It's just a nice feature to experiment with, among all of the other features of the 876, my 702 has served me well over the years, I was considering the newer 700 series as a replacement for it, after doing much research none of the 700 series avr's have the weight or the current draw 8.1A of the 702, the only advantage of newer 700 is HDMI and processing, so I decided on the 876, which I believe is in a league of it's own and can be a hub for a decent HT. I just have to pull the trigger and get it.
Jeff


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Indeed only Onkyo's most powerful Models offer Bridging. If fact, only the THX Ultra2 Models offer this feature and not every one as the TX-NR1007 does not offer this Feature.
> 
> For those with a 5.1 HT, it really does offer some added juice to the Front Speakers. Especially nice for 2 Channel fans.
> ...


JJ, that is my intention, I have a 5.1 setup now, and do a lot of two channel listening.
Jeff


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Jeff, I really think it will sound noticeably better than the UPA-2 that you are currently using. I look forward to reading your findings on the issue.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

recruit said:


> The way I see it is this, if you think of stereo pre/amp bridging it will make it into a mono block meaning you will only have one channel to use, not all manufacturers offer this feature but I have also read somewhere I cannot remember exactly where but it can have a detrimental effect on the amp by doing this, meaning it may not be as efficient when running difficult loads.


The Emotiva XPA2 needs to run at no lower then 8ohms when bridged, according to the owners manual. I don't have experiance with any other brands though.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Bridging the Onkyo is a great option when only using 5.1 channels. Its one of the reasons why Onkyo still remains one of my top picks for people when buying a receiver. Most of there mid to high end models support this great option.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Jeff, I really think it will sound noticeably better than the UPA-2 that you are currently using. I look forward to reading your findings on the issue.
> Cheers,
> JJ


JJ, I like the UPA-2 but with the 876 I think I will be putting it up for sale, it has less than 100 hours use and only 8 months old, this will offset the cost of 876.
jeff


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Bridging the Onkyo is a great option when only using 5.1 channels. Its one of the reasons why Onkyo still remains one of my top picks for people when buying a receiver. Most of there mid to high end models support this great option.


Thanks Tony for the reply, that's one of the primary reasons for the 876, 5.1 and stereo in bridged configuration, and of course all of the audio and video processing that I don't have now.
Jeff


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I have its brother that is basically identical to the 876 without the high end video processing of the Raon and it still is a fantastic receiver two years and still going strong with no plans to upgrade.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> I have its brother that is basically identical to the 876 without the high end video processing of the Raon and it still is a fantastic receiver two years and still going strong with no plans to upgrade.


Tony, that's how I feel now, make the investment for the long haul, my 702 served me well for five years and still going strong.
Jeff


----------



## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

I am not using my rear speakers ,and instead using front wide .
Wound it be a good idea to use the front in bridged or biamp for 7.1 output or is this just good for stero?


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

jwhite8086 said:


> I am not using my rear speakers ,and instead using front wide .
> Wound it be a good idea to use the front in bridged or biamp for 7.1 output or is this just good for stero?


Unless your powering it with an external amp it wont work as receivers use the 6th and 7th channels to give the main channels the extra power so you wont be able to use it in 7.1 if you turn on the bi-amp option (unless like I said you use an external amp on the rear 6th and 7th channels).


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
With the TX-NR3007 and TX-NR5007, you could run 7.1 and Bridge the Main Channels. This is because they have 9 Channel Amplifiers. With the TX-NR1007, you can run 7.1 and BiAmp the Mains. The reason the 1007 can only be BiAmped is due to not having quite as strong of an Amplifier Stage as the more expensive 3007 and 5007. Bridging places greater demands on an AVR than does BiAmping.. These features will carry over to the 1008/3008/5008 with the same restriction on the 1008.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> With the TX-NR3007 and TX-NR5007, you could run 7.1 and Bridge the Main Channels. This is because they have 9 Channel Amplifiers.
> JJ


Oops, I stand corrected. I forgot that the newer receivers have 9 channel amps not 7.:hide:


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Nonsense amigo. There are very few AVR's that have 9 Channels crammed into a single Chassis. 
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Quick note: the 876 in BTL (bridged mode) puts out 210 watts, impressive.


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Very impressive for an AVR, 200 watts is alot of power. I'm really going to have to look into Onkyo for an AVR for my wifes room, i just have to pull myself away from Denon.:whistling:


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Bambino, I completely understand your loyalty to Denon. I used to use them almost exclusively until HDMI 1.3 came out. Onkyo truly pulled a Phoenix act. Ever since Denon's 05 Series, I really feel they have been charging more while offering less. Especially in respect to the Amplifier Stage. It really depresses me.

For example Denon's AVR-3805 cost 1200 Dollars and weighed a smidge under 38 Pounds. Now, Denon's AVR-4310 costs 2000 Dollars and weighs 34.8 Pounds. The AVR-3310 retails for 1499 and weighs 28.6 Pounds.
Just depressing as I truly prefer their Industrial Design and GUI over Onkyo. I also like that many Denon's are still made in Japan.

As I use outboard Amplifiers, I did give serious thought to purchasing a Denon for use as a SSP/Pre Amp. However, the closest Model when matching Features like Video Processing and THX Processing was the 5500 Dollar AVR-5803. Whereas Denon used to offer THX Certification in both the 3000 and 4000 Series (AVR-3600, AVR-4800, AVR-4802, etc) no longer is this the case. These AVR's all weighed around 50 Pounds whereas the 4310 weighs under 35 Pounds. Also, even the 3000 Dollar AVR-4810 does not offer THX Processing.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

The price to feature and weght ratio are what will drive me away from them ( mostly the price thing), thanks for your knowledge jack it is much appreciated.:sn:
I do however wish i could afford somthing like the 5308 for it's THX:spend: but i've been living with the 3808 for three years now and have been more then happy with it and now that i've gone to outboard amps my next AVR will be based more on features rather then power, just need to make up my mind as to what brand it will be.:scratch:
My wife is more then likely gonna end up with the 3808 in her room and i'll get something with features i like and snag the outboards from the 3808 then i'll just have to get her a speaker setup which by all the help and knowledge i get here decisions won't be difficult. Thanks again.:T


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

bambino said:


> The price to feature and weght ratio are what will drive me away from them ( mostly the price thing), thanks for your knowledge jack it is much appreciated.:sn:
> I do however wish i could afford somthing like the 5308 for it's THX:spend: but i've been living with the 3808 for three years now and have been more then happy with it and now that i've gone to outboard amps my next AVR will be based more on features rather then power, just need to make up my mind as to what brand it will be.:scratch:
> My wife is more then likely gonna end up with the 3808 in her room and i'll get something with features i like and snag the outboards from the 3808 then i'll just have to get her a speaker setup which by all the help and knowledge i get here decisions won't be difficult. Thanks again.:T


Bambino, I could not agree more about the knowledgeable and helpful folks here at the Shack, I don't make a move until I throw my thoughts out here on the forum, everyone is eager to help and offer their thoughts so you can make an informed decision. The price to feature and weight ratio are the reasons I lean towards Onkyo, I own the 702 which I've had for five years and compared the next six generations of the 700 series, my 702 weighs in at almost 35 lbs and draws 8.1A of current, the closest in weight and current draw is 6.9 and 29lbs. Onkyo is guilty of downsizing in some of their lines, but thanks to JJ, he steared my towards the 876 and now I'm thinking on a higher plain of thought, selling off my outboard amp, the 702 and upgrading to new mains. This a great place with great people.
Best, Jeff


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I couldn't agree more this place is a fountain of knowledge, i only wish i had found it sooner as some of my past purchases have left me with regret.:rant:


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

bambino said:


> I couldn't agree more this place is a fountain of knowledge, i only wish i had found it sooner as some of my past purchases have left me with regret.:rant:


You're not alone, we all have some regrets, I'm just grateful they were not expensive!


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

When I first started buying the internet was unavailable to me and had to go by window shopping and what the sales people said. I have made lots of regrettable buys but also some good ones. We all learn from our experiences.


----------



## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> When I first started buying the internet was unavailable to me and had to go by window shopping and what the sales people said. I have made lots of regrettable buys but also some good ones. We all learn from our experiences.


That is where my mistakes happend as i also didn't have the internet. It's amazing what you learn by talking to and getting advice from several people rather then say a salesperson.addle:


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

My biggest regret is how much money I payed for stuff. At the time in the early 90s I had no clue how much things cost so spending $1200 on an A/D/S sub and $1800 on my Main Mission 765 speakers that I still have today I thought was a great deal and of course $1300 on a Carver receiver 6250. I am sure if I had the internet I would have fond these for much less.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

I hear that, back in the early eighties, Stereophile magazine was audio written in stone, whatever they said was good I bought, Luxman, Sota and Klipshorn, paid full retail for all, salesman said take it or leave it. My Sota Sapphire 111 is the only original piece left, I started with Kenwood and Pioneer rack systems in the 70's. I am so appreciative of sites like the shack, where there are suggestions from people who actually have and use the equipment they recommend. I'm letting my age out of the bag here. Thanks guys.
Jeff


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

needspeed52 said:


> My Sota Sapphire 111 is the only original piece left, I started with Kenwood and Pioneer rack systems in the 70's. I am so appreciative of sites like the shack, where there are suggestions from people who actually have and use the equipment they recommend. I'm letting my age out of the bag here. Thanks guys.
> Jeff


I bought my first piece of audio when I was 8 back in 1977 it was a ghetoblaster (boombox) from Panasonic It lasted almost 20 years before I threw it away.
Can we say slightly off topic LOL

Now back to our regularly scheduled program.....


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> I bought my first piece of audio when I was 8 back in 1977 it was a ghetoblaster (boombox) from Panasonic It lasted almost 20 years before I threw it away.
> Can we say slightly off topic LOL
> 
> Now back to our regularly scheduled program.....



Wish I was 8 in 1977.....ghetoblaster..haven't heard that term in a loooong time. Thanks for the smile just now. OK back to the program.


----------



## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Yep, a lot has changed since yesteryear and thanks to the Internet and forums like this it can stop people making those mistakes, but there will still be some that buy from the likes of box shifters and normal High street retail outlets without a clue as to the value and advice some are given


----------

