# Anyone here prefer surround sound without center channel?



## svtcontour

Sometimes I find the center channel to be kind of pronounced even with the levels being correct. Sounds a bit clunky if that makes sense. If I remove the surround and tell the receiver - no surround, then the sound (at least in the center seat) seems a bit more natural to me.


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## tonyvdb

Yes having no centre channel can sometimes sound better but this is usually a cause of either to narrow a separation of your main left and right speakers or using a mis matched centre channel speaker. What are you using for your center channel/mains?


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## wgmontgomery

Are you listening to DTS/Dolby Digital surround or Pro-logic?


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## TypeA

Ive read that if you move the calibration mic forward (experiment with how much) of your listening position it will give different results with your center performance. Never done it myself but might be worth the effort.


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## svtcontour

Aha! Ok so my mains and center are of different brands. Celestion DL8 (vintage stuff) for left and right and an Infinity PC350 center. Also the speakers are only about 9 feet apart so not sure if thats just too close or not. I sit about 12 feet from the screen...or about 10 feet from the existing center channel.














tonyvdb said:


> Yes having no centre channel can sometimes sound better but this is usually a cause of either to narrow a separation of your main left and right speakers or using a mis matched centre channel speaker. What are you using for your center channel/mains?


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## svtcontour

Hmmm you know, I dont remember. I do generally prefer DTS if available on the Disc.




wgmontgomery said:


> Are you listening to DTS/Dolby Digital surround or Pro-logic?


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## tonyvdb

Having different speakers could be a problem but as Ty mentioned placing the mic forward during calibration can help. Another thing I see with the placement of your mains is that they are higher than your centre channel by a fair bit. You can try lowering them so that the tweeters line up and see if that helps.


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## caper26

Subwoofer equipment rack.. nice !


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## Tonto

My center & mains are not a perfect match either. Most of the time my center sounds better, but I get more SPL with my mains. Depends on the music I am listening to (or my mood) which way I go.


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## RTS100x5

nice subs .... reminds me of my setup...


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## pharoah

being im using a 2.1 system for movie watching.i defo listen with no center.which isnt a problem at all if your mains image well.


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## Picture_Shooter

Right now I'm in apartment living and using a 3.1 setup

I don't think I'd ever want to get rid of my center channel during movie watching. However, I'll kill the center and do 2.1 during music listening


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## JBrax

I've always had a center channel and can't imagine going without it. I've probably had 7 or 8 throughout the years and some of the early ones were less than spectacular and I probably should have just done 2.1 until I could afford a decent one. IMO a good center is a must have for home theater.


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## gdstupak

Even if your center speaker is the exact same model as the left/right, it can sound different (i.e. boxy) because there is usually some kind of flat horizontal surface (i.e. tv screen) either above or below the speaker (you have the sub boxes under your center speaker). This causes a major hump in the frequency response around the 70-100hz area.
Sometimes Audyssey can correct this problem and somtimes it can't.

2 ways to get better natural sound from the center speaker:
#1.... move the flat surface away from the speaker. Many times this can be easier said than done. Just to see if it might be worthwhile for you, temporarily move your center speaker 1-2' in front of the sub boxes (or 1-2' above the sub boxes).
#2.... raise the low frequency crossover point for the center speaker. This is what I did for my center speaker and it sounds much better. Audyssey correctly detected that my center speaker could play down to 60hz, so my AVR set the crossover point for 60hz. But because of the flat surface of my tv, the speaker sounded boxy. I raised my center speaker crossover to somwhere around 100hz and it made a huge improvement.

As far as listening without a center speaker. My mains have great imaging and 90% of the time I could get away without using the center speaker. But there are difinitely times when voices are supposed to be centered and they are not unless I use the center speaker. Case in point is during last years Super Bowl. When listening to the football commentaters with the center speaker on, the voices appeared to come from whoever was talking on screen whether they were centered, or off center to the left or so on. But when listening in stereo, there was no center voicing at all, it all came from left or right.


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## sparkymt

gdstupak said:


> Even if your center speaker is the exact same model as the left/right, it can sound different (i.e. boxy) because there is usually some kind of flat surface either above or below the speaker (you have the sub boxes under your center speaker). This causes a major hump in the frequency response around the 70-100hz area.
> Sometimes Audyssey can correct this problem and somtimes it can't.
> 
> 2 ways to get better natural sound from the center speaker:
> #1.... move the flat surface away from the speaker. Many times this can be easier said than done. Just to see if it might be worthwhile for you, temporarily move your center speaker 1-2' in front of the sub boxes (or 1-2' above the sub boxes).
> #2.... raise the low frequency crossover point for the center speaker. This is what I did for my center speaker and it sounds much better. Audyssey correctly detected that my center speaker could play down to 60hz, so my AVR set the crossover point for 60hz. But because of the flat surface of my tv, the speaker sounded boxy. I raised my center speaker crossover to somwhere around 100hz and it made a huge improvement.
> 
> As far as listening without a center speaker. My mains have great imaging and 90% of the time I could get away without using the center speaker. But there are difinitely times when voices are supposed to be centered and they are not unless I use the center speaker. Case in point is during last years Super Bowl. When listening to the football commentaters with the center speaker on, the voices appeared to come from whoever was talking on screen whether they were centered, or off center to the left or so on. But when listening in stereo, there was no center voicing at all, it all came from left or right.


Good stuff. I have been doing without a center for over 10 years. I have no doubt my home theater experience would be better with a center channel.


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## Stoner19

I've had a center channel for years now so I couldn't imagine watching movies without it, but at times it does seem to be a little too much when there could be more sound pushed to the side speakers. I supposed that partly has to do with my setup/settings as well as the way the movie was made. I think I'll give it a go without the center to see how much that changes things.


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## gmahon

I wish I could say it's better w/o a center channel speaker because I'm all for simplicity, however it just hasn't worked for me. I think it depends a lot on room acoustics.


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## woofersus

It's important to me to play it back the way it was mixed, but also, I think the center channel is important when you're not sitting precisely in the sweet spot. If you're in a normal living room with more than one person, you may be 15-25 degrees off axis or more. Problems with center channel designs and off-axis response notwithstanding, the imaging accross the front that you can get with stereo starts to fall apart when you're closer to one speaker than the other. Voices won't be anchored to the screen anymore, and things that pan accross the front stage (which doesn't happen usually in music listening) will seem to be coming towards or going away from you, and it will confuse the spacial location that is so much a part of really good surround effects.


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## NBPk402

Years ago I ran 2 center channels... one above the screen and the other below the screen with both aiming toward the listener. It sounded better to me than with one center plus the sound image was always on the screen. When I can afford to get a matching center channel I will run 2 again.


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## chashint

svtcontour said:


> Sometimes I find the center channel to be kind of pronounced even with the levels being correct. Sounds a bit clunky if that makes sense. If I remove the surround and tell the receiver - no surround, then the sound (at least in the center seat) seems a bit more natural to me.


In all multi-channel listening I find the center channel speaker enhances the experience.


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## caper26

I like 2ch listening much better for stereo effect. 2.1 all the way for me


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## jdent02

I tried going without a center channel for a week but I didn't like what it did to the front soundstage. It made everything a bit more 'mushy' and voices sounded too wide and not anchored in the center where they should have been. And maybe it was just my AVR at the time, but removing the cente channel actually hurt the bass response (bad DSP in the amp, maybe?).


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