# onkyo 809 or not



## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

quick question for everyone. I see that amazon has the onkyo 809 in the 500 dollar range(depending on what day it is) which seems like a great buy. My problem is the reliabilty issue, i havent seen any one amp with so many reported problems, from amazon reviewers to forums like this one. Should I steer clear of this particular model and go for something like the 818 or denon 3313? or should i get the 809 and use the savings to get an extended warranty? :scratch:


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

I got one and it's been working great for the past couple months. It does not run that hot. My PC puts out a lot more hot air than the AVR. I think it is a great buy, especially considering its new with warranty. Recommended


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

The 818 is def an upgrade to the 809 but like stated above you can get a warranty, quite a few members here have the 809 and seem to not have any issues


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Im not sure what reports of problems with the 809 you ar talking about as its been a very reliable receiver for every member that I know of on here that has one (there are lots).
I think the 818 has a big issue in that it wont pass 1080p24 video without issues. Unless thats been fixed in a firmware update so the 809 is a very solid choice.


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## I love my sound (May 26, 2012)

Unless you have the money for the 818 then go for it but the 809 is a good choice and whith the extra money you were saing get. The waranty . I my self got the 809 and its been good since then it dosent get hot maby I got lucky with this one been. no one knows if they're going to get a good receiver or not

Sent from my SPH-L710 using HT Shack


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

Unfortunately, the sample of people on this site is pretty small, so measuring overall reliability based on "I have not had any problems" or "people I know..." tells us little.

I don't put too much emphasis on Amazon reviews since most reviews are only from those who have had it for a short time and are unlikely to put down something that they have made a big investment in.

I also do not worry too much about DOA since, while annoying, it can be exchanged.

What does worry me is the large number of postings of failures just out of warranty. Based on Amazon reviews, Onkyo seems to have a lot of those and that concerns me. It could indicate a higher percentage of failures. Or, it is a popular items that sells in high volume and therefore, just by sheer numbers, is going to have more complaints.

I have decided not to buy their receivers until I have more evidence.

http://forums.audioholics.com/forum...me-downgrade-onkyo-receivers-junk-status.html


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

I'd get the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 for $599 from AcessoriesForLess and be done. It is a $1800 receiver with over the top room correction capabilities and superb quality amplification.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

TheHammer said:


> What does worry me is the large number of postings of failures just out of warranty. Based on Amazon reviews, Onkyo seems to have a lot of those and that concerns me. It could indicate a higher percentage of failures. Or, it is a popular items that sells in high volume and therefore, just by sheer numbers, is going to have more complaints.
> 
> I have decided not to buy their receivers until I have more evidence.


I will put money on it that 90% of the people that have had failures of receivers are not reading the instructions or following common sense. Heat is the number one reason receivers fail. Far to many people put them inside cabinets or dont allow for airflow above it. Because Onkyo uses a much stronger amplification section than any other receiver company for the money (proven in bench tests over and over) it will by nature get warmer and airflow is key.

Although the Sherwood/Newcastle is a great receiver for the money it is NOT for someone who does not have the patience or the time to play. It is full of little issues and can be frustrating particularly if you are not the only one who will use it.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

My 805 is warm on standby mode


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> I will put money on it that 90% of the people that have had failures of receivers are not reading the instructions or following common sense. Heat is the number one reason receivers fail. Far to many people put them inside cabinets or dont allow for airflow above it. Because Onkyo uses a much stronger amplification section than any other receiver company for the money (proven in bench tests over and over) it will by nature get warmer and airflow is key.


I just did a website comparison between similarly priced Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo. The Yamaha came in at 90 watts, the Onkyo is 100, while the Denon is 105.

The difference between the most powerful (Denon) and the least (Yamaha) is only 0.7 db which is not audible. The Onkyo is certainly not " a much stronger amplification section".

http://receivers.findthebest.com/co...RX-A720-vs-Onkyo-TX-NR616-vs-Denon-AVR-2313CI

However, you could be making a point that the Onkyo is engineered with a poorly designed heat dissipation system, making it more prone to problems when ventilation is less than optimal. 

I do give Onkyo points because it is frequently discounted much more than its list price compared to the competition. But I am concerned about reliability.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

TheHammer said:


> I just did a website comparison between similarly priced Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo. The Yamaha came in at 90 watts, the Onkyo is 100, while the Denon is 105.
> 
> The difference between the most powerful (Denon) and the least (Yamaha) is only 0.7 db which is not audible. The Onkyo is certainly not " a much stronger amplification section".
> 
> http://receivers.findthebest.com/co...RX-A720-vs-Onkyo-TX-NR616-vs-Denon-AVR-2313CI


Those are not Bench test results thos are what the manufacturer specifies in there manual Bench tests are done by third party companies and it is well know that receivers put out 25% less than advertised as a general rule. Receiver companies do not use ful frequency tests most use a 1kHz test not realistic at all. It usually very easy to tell just by looking at the weight of a given model. The Power supply is the culprit as its far to small to drive all channels to given output in most receivers. Onkyo has always (since the 805series) put big PS in them.
For example the Onkyo 609 selling for less then $300 was bench tested to do 95watts per ch 5 channels driven Thats amazing for a receiver rated at 100watts selling for under $300


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Those are not Bench test results thos are what the manufacturer specifies in there manual Bench tests are done by third party companies and it is well know that receivers put out 25% less than advertised as a general rule. Receiver companies do not use ful frequency tests most use a 1kHz test not realistic at all. It usually very easy to tell just by looking at the weight of a given model. The Power supply is the culprit as its far to small to drive all channels to given output in most receivers. Onkyo has always (since the 805series) put big PS in them.
> For example the Onkyo 609 selling for less then $300 was bench tested to do 95watts per ch 5 channels driven Thats amazing for a receiver rated at 100watts selling for under $300


The results I quoted are full frequency 20 Hz to 20 kHz.

The comparison I looked at showed all three receivers to be about the same weight, which is a dubious way to compare receivers at best. An AB amp is the least efficient, therefore generates more heat and needs to be heavier than newer classes of amps like D, G and H. But if these are all A/ B amps, then more weight could mean bigger heat sinks or a bigger transformer. Which makes a better amp and how will you know which you have?

For those that live and die with the ACD test, here is a fabulous article about how it is done:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/amplifier-technology/the-all-channels-driven-acd-amplifier-test

Now assuming, after reading, that you still believe that the ACD test is the way to select an amp, compare any amps not in watts, but in db. Remember that 3 db is about the limit of a useful difference and that is double the power.

And yes, $300 is a great deal. And if it breaks down just after warranty, you can always purchase a second one and only be out $600, every few years or so.

To me, the big albatross around Onkyo's neck is their perception of poor reliability. Given the other options out there, I have decided to stay away from Onkyo. I hope, for the sake of the owners out there that I am wrong. I wish a magazine or web site would do a poll of owners of various amps so we can get somewhat reliable data to make an informed choice.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

TheHammer said:


> To me, the big albatross around Onkyo's neck is their perception of poor reliability. Given the other options out there, I have decided to stay away from Onkyo. I hope, for the sake of the owners out there that I am wrong. I wish a magazine or web site would do a poll of owners of various amps so we can get somewhat reliable data to make an informed choice.


To each their own but I challenge you to find an actual reliable source (not AVS) that proves that Onkyo's are more prone to failure than any other receiver. I agree that Onkyo has had issues and they have addressed them with recalls something that many other manufacturers ignore. I cant think of one manufacturer that sells more receivers than Onkyo and most owners are happy (you wont hear from them in most cases). HDMI board failures for example are common with every brand not just Onkyo.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I would love to see those sales figures so please post that link. Even better if the sales report includes electronics other that AVRs.


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> To each their own but I challenge you to find an actual reliable source (not AVS) that proves that Onkyo's are more prone to failure than any other receiver. I agree that Onkyo has had issues and they have addressed them with recalls something that many other manufacturers ignore. I cant think of one manufacturer that sells more receivers than Onkyo and most owners are happy (you wont hear from them in most cases). HDMI board failures for example are common with every brand not just Onkyo.


I have never claimed that I KNOW that Onkyo are less reliable. In fact, if you read my posts, I have been careful to say the exact opposite.

My concern is based on comments posted in Amazon and discussion groups, which I have pointed out is not a good way to make a factual judgement.

In Amazon and in discussion groups, no other manufacturer has similar comments about HDMI board failures - that I have seen to date. That seems to refute your claim that HDMI board failures are common with every brand and not just Onkyo.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

TheHammer said:


> I have never claimed that I KNOW that Onkyo are less reliable. In fact, if you read my posts, I have been careful to say the exact opposite.
> 
> My concern is based on comments posted in Amazon and discussion groups, which I have pointed out is not a good way to make a factual judgement.
> 
> In Amazon and in discussion groups, no other manufacturer has similar comments about HDMI board failures - that I have seen to date. That seems to refute your claim that HDMI board failures are common with every brand and not just Onkyo.


I can attest to the Denon - I had to send my 4520 back less than two weeks after I got it due to an HDMI board failure. I believe someone said there was a thread over at AVS saying others were experiencing the same issues I was, but I never looked for it as I was well within my return period and just immediately asked for the unit to be replaced.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I also know of two posts here where Pioneer owners have had failures of HDMI boards and if I remember right there was a Yamaha owner here as well some time ago. And its not just receives that have HDMI board failures its TVs as well. 
But Enough of this, back to the original question The Onkyo 809 is a great receiver and well worth the money.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Never a hint of any problems with my 809 but with any and all electronics we take that risk. It can happen to any brand from the lower models to the higher end models. It all boils down to what you feel comfortable with and people seem to defend the brand that they own.


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## TheHammer (Dec 16, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> But Enough of this, back to the original question The Onkyo 809 is a great receiver and well worth the money.


Good questions / comments about HDMI failures in other brands.

I did a quick search on HDMI board failures as I wanted to see the distribution of this problem in other brands. Take a look for yourself.

http://www.google.com/search?q=hdmi+board+failures&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en&client=safari

If the above link does not work for you, try a search for "HDMI board failures" and see what pops up.

I went back to look at the original question and it is about Onkyo reliability issues.

"My problem is the reliabilty issue, i havent seen any one amp with so many reported problems,"


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I guess there is not an online AVR sales report?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Not that I am aware of, I do know a guy who is the manager of one of our Best Buys here and he says that Onkyo sells almost twice as much as the others in his store. He would not give me any exact numbers.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Thanks everyone for the input. I have a onkyo 604 that has never given me any problems and my dad got a 709 a year and half ago, and no issues. And yes, if you read enough reviews, people have complaints about every brand of receiver.


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## hyghwayman (Jan 15, 2008)

:dontknow: So are you getting the 809?

I've been watching this thread and being a Pioneer owner which wasn't on your list addle: , I chose to stay out of it but your last post has me wondering which receiver :gah:

Sincerely,
hyghwayman


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

hyghwayman said:


> :dontknow: So are you getting the 809?
> 
> I've been watching this thread and being a Pioneer owner which wasn't on your list addle: , I chose to stay out of it but you last post has me wondering which receiver :gah:
> 
> ...


No love for Harman-Kardon either.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

hyghwayman said:


> :dontknow: So are you getting the 809?
> 
> I've been watching this thread and being a Pioneer owner which wasn't on your list addle: , I chose to stay out of it but you last post has me wondering which receiver :gah:
> 
> ...


:rofl::rofl:


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

hyghwayman said:


> :dontknow: So are you getting the 809?
> 
> I've been watching this thread and being a Pioneer owner which wasn't on your list addle: , I chose to stay out of it but you last post has me wondering which receiver :gah:
> 
> ...


Funny you would mention that. I actually went to the pioneer site looking at there elite series. The sc 61 and 63 look solid


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

park41 said:


> Funny you would mention that. I actually went to the pioneer site looking at there elite series. The sc 61 and 63 look solid


I have heard the SC-63 next to a current generation Marantz. The SC-63 had slightly over exaggerated bass (coloration) and I felt the Marantz had a better more natural sound, much closer to neutrality..


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Cant go wrong with the SC63.... Im soon to upgrade to this from my SC35 :T


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I have been happy with my Pioneer VSX-23TXH. 
Not that I plan on replacing it anytime soon, but my next AVR will have a USB port on the rear.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

found a pioneer sc 63 on ebay for 749.99, says new with warranty. should i stay away from this and stay with a known retailer?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PIONEER...ers_Tuners&hash=item43b0b7aaa1#ht_2531wt_1141


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

eBay can be so hit and miss. Pioneer is a great receiver but they do not EQ the sub channel so be aware of that.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

park41 said:


> found a pioneer sc 63 on ebay for 749.99, says new with warranty. should i stay away from this and stay with a known retailer?
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PIONEER...ers_Tuners&hash=item43b0b7aaa1#ht_2531wt_1141


The words ebay and warranty do not belong together, it's automatically void once a Pioneer product has been as sold new in the box through an auction.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

ditto - Ebay is not the way lddude: Id feel much more secure with Amazon.... but be aware there are not many authorized Pioneer dealers online if any...ie no warranty ...


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Hey guys, thanks for letting me know about pioneer elites sold online, not having a warranty. I checked online and your exactly right. So. I guess that prices me out of elite territory, because retailers like best buy charge about 300.00 over amazon. I would risk it...but with my luck something would happen. Back to the drawing board


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Dude, if you can get the Onkyo 809 from Amazon for $500, JUMP ON IT! This is an unbelievable value. I'm telling you I use mine everyday and it is phenomenal.

Worried about quality? Well, I'm sure that Onkyo (as a corporation) pays just as much attention to quality as any other major consumer retail electronics corporation. It's not like they are underselling the rest of the market like brands such as Pyle in the pro audio sector. It is a total shoot these days when everything is being made in China, Malaysia, Mexico, wherever. Well, not a shoot but a play at percentages. At this price point, every brand has some defective units that make it to the shelves. Nobody in the mass consumer market segment (i.e. below $1000) has 100% quality control.

The other side is that usually the vast majority of products sold are of good quality. The reason one reads more complaints than compliments on the internet is a question of motivation.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Vann - I'm looking at the refirb 818 on a4l. I read above that you love the 809, I have used and really like the 709. Would you pay the extra $150 for the 818 if you were to be in the position to buy again. Why or why not?


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