# *** Upgrading subs ? ***



## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

****Thinking about Upgrading subs ****

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...y/38598-forrester-dedicated-home-theater.html


In my dedicated HT , Room 18'X22' currently using 2 subs one is a Infinity ps212 , and the second is a JBL s120p . both 12" drivers with 400 watts each. they sound ok , about 50% of the time , but during movies with heavy action ,the bass sounds like mush at higher volumes , so most of the time is keep them turned down , so they wont get over whelmed . Rx is a Onkyo 1009 , I can really only afford to replace one at a time for now. If so , which should i replace first and which should i replace it with? 99% movies . and should i be looking at a sealed box or a ported box design ?

I also want to make sure i can hear a major difference , I'm not interested in a little improvement , it would like it to be day and night . if even possible. i have been looking at the HSU , OUTLAW , EPIK , and PSA


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## ansat (Apr 22, 2011)

I might recommend to see if emotiva gets their ref 15 out before the end of the year. We don't have a price point or reviews yet. But I think it can contend with the other Id vendors out there.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

dual epik empire subs would defo be night and day.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

*Re: ***Thinking about Upgrading subs ****



> I can really only afford to replace one at a time for now. If so , which should i replace first and which should i replace it with? ... I also want to make sure i can hear a major difference , I'm not interested in a little improvement , it would like it to be day and night .


You don't mention a budget, so I'll assume ~$1,500 per sub, in which case options would include:
- SVS PB12-Plus
- Rythmik FV15HP
- PSA XV30


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

i would really like to stay under $ 800 per sub if possible. $ 1600 for both


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

In that case:
- SVS PB12-NSD
- PSA XV15
- Outlaw LFM-1 EX
- ChaseHT SS-18.1 (two cabinets + one amp)

Nice HT room, BTW!


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> with heavy action ,the bass sounds like mush at higher volumes


For your needs the 12" subs can't move enough air at the lower frequencies. A pair of 15" ported subs will get you there.
_
21Hz-200Hz +/-3dB (16Hz-18Hz typical in-room extension)_

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xv15



​


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

Mike P. said:


> For your needs the 12" subs can't move enough air at the lower frequencies. A pair of 15" ported subs will get you there.
> _
> 21Hz-200Hz +/-3dB (16Hz-18Hz typical in-room extension)_
> 
> ...


I was actually looking at those very hard. seems like a good price for 15" driver. How would you compare the PSA against the EPIK empires ? looks its the exact same cost for a pair.


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## Tom V. (Jul 12, 2012)

*Re: ***Thinking about Upgrading subs ****

First, be sure you have the current subs optimized. Have you experimented with placement a bit? In a larger room like yours a corner may work best---particularly a corner near the seating positions. Also, if the seating position(s) is equidistant to two or more room boundaries you might try moving it slightly as that can cause major problems with the bass response at those seats. Oh, and be sure the two subs are working together (phase settings). 

Second. if you decide to add one new sub at this time, I would try stacking the two current subwoofers and calibrating them as if they were a single large subwoofer. You may find they have enough headroom in a stack to adequately keep up(and enhance) the bass the new unit is providing. They likely won't extend as deep but some added headroom >30hz may sound quite good.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

mandtra said:


> I was actually looking at those very hard. seems like a good price for 15" driver. How would you compare the PSA against the EPIK empires ? looks its the exact same cost for a pair.


Rule of thumb is it takes 2 sealed drivers to equal the output of 1 ported sub. The Empire employs a subsonic filter just below 20 hz so I'd imagine the Empire and PSA would fairly close in output.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

whoa those chase 18's would be awesome to.1400$ for 2 18 inch subs,and a 1000 watt amp.thats a lot of subbage for your money.they say 107db at 15hz thats crazy output.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Good call pharoah, I can't believe I didn't think of that. 

$1350 for the sub and amp, for the output you get it's one the best bang for the buck systems.

https://www.chasehometheater.com/in...virtuemart&Itemid=138&redirected=1&Itemid=138


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

Mike P. said:


> Good call pharoah, I can't believe i didn't think of that.
> 
> $1350 for the sub and amp, for the output you get it's one the best bang for the buck systems.
> 
> https://www.chasehometheater.com/in...virtuemart&Itemid=138&redirected=1&Itemid=138


Whats the deal with the separate amp? I have a 120volt and a RCA jack behind each of my two existing subs. I have no way to power them with a separate amp (no way to get the additional wires there), if i understand correctly


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

It's a rack amp. Placed with your equipment, only the speaker wires run from the amp to the sub.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

Mike P. said:


> It's a rack amp. Placed with your equipment, only the speaker wires run from the amp to the sub.
> 
> View attachment 37945
> 
> View attachment 37946


unfortunately running speaker wires isn't an option for me at this point. I didn't think about pre-wiring anything , but the RG6 /RCA's for the sub inputs :sad2:


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Then it's a no go.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

do most of the others have an built in amp ?


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Yes they do.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

any of the choices presented here.with the exception of the no go.they are very good subs.they would be a night and day difference over what you have now.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

For a 18' x 22' room three Rythmik FV12s for $1,647 would be enough for me. Three 12" servo-controlled drivers in ported enclosures with 900 combined watts behind them can move plenty of air to achieve low frequency extension at adequate SPLs.


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

Correct me if I'm wrong but if you're interested in the Chase sub you could place the amp on top/near the subwoofer and use the existing digital coax coming out of the wall for the input of the amp and run a short speaker wire to the sub. You wouldn't _need_ to have the amp with the rest of your equipment.

As far as other options I would put Power Sound Audio at the top of the list.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Have you checked out HSU? They make great subs


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

> Correct me if I'm wrong but if you're interested in the Chase sub you could place the amp on top/near the subwoofer and use the existing digital coax coming out of the wall for the input of the amp and run a short speaker wire to the sub. You wouldn't _need_ to have the amp with the rest of your equipment.


That's correct. Some guys place the amp on or near one of the cabinets and run:
- a short wire to the nearby cabinet; and
- a longer wire to the more-distant cabinet.


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## TheLaw612 (Jan 17, 2012)

jackfish said:


> For a 18' x 22' room three Rythmik FV12s for $1,647 would be enough for me. Three 12" servo-controlled drivers in ported enclosures with 900 combined watts behind them can move plenty of air to achieve low frequency extension at adequate SPLs.


The FV12 is being redesigned so it isn't for sale right now. It should be done by the end of the year (hopefully).

If the budget is $800 for each, I'd go dual PSA XV15's. I don't own one but I have read/heard nothing but great things from current owners.


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