# Recommendation on prewiring for AV during construction.



## hfadiga (Aug 22, 2008)

I am currently remodeling my house, and I'm at studs & joists. I would like to pre-wire the house for home automation and A/V. For the home automation, I will most likely be using KNX, so the control signals will be coming to the lights via 20ga twisted pair low voltage electric wires. Since I will be using recessed lighting throughout the house, the cables will be high voltage (110v) on one side, and the low voltage on the other side, since they can't run in parallel, in order to avoid potential spikes. I will be changing my load center and using a new one that has surge suppression on it.
Due to the small size of the house, space is at a premium and I have to keep things tucked away as much as possible, and that is where I'm not sure what to do since I don't know much about HT setups.
I'd like some advice on how to pre-wire for speakers, and would prefer ceiling mounted speakers, but I do not know how far away from the hi/lo v electric wires the speaker wires need to be kept.
Can I run then along lo v? (let's say 24v).
Should I use ceiling mounted, wall mounted, or standalone speakers? Remember that I would like to keep things out of the way if at all possible - I'm dealing with rooms that are 11x13 on average, and the entertainment area is 13x11 with a kitchen/bar area of 9x11, the total width is 22 feet.
Since my wife plays the piano beautifully and we often record her keyboard and replay it, I would like to use the keyboard in the basement as a sound source for the whole house also, so I am planning on having some kind of a mixer/switch in the whole house audio system. Even though I am not at that stage yet, I want to mention that just in case it makes a difference.
Please help me route the wires properly, and select speakers for the main entertainment area, and ceiling mounted speakers for the bathroom+bedrooms for background music.
Thank you.


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

This sounds like a pretty extensive project, but your careful planning now will really pay off later when you are done. A good place to start might be to specify how many rooms will need just audio, and how many will need video and/or surround sound. Knowing your budget and how many total speakers you need will help us make some relevant suggestions for you. It looks like you have one room that will get audio/video, and multiple bedrooms/bathrooms and a kitchen that will get just audio? Going from there you can determine how many runs of speaker wire, HDMI, CAT5, etc. you will need.

In my opinion, if your space is limited, ceiling speakers are a good option for bedrooms, kitchens, bathrooms, etc where you will just be playing background music. For your entertainment area, if you have the space, standalone speakers will typically give you the best sound quality. Again, give us an idea of your budget and how many rooms you have to work with.


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## hfadiga (Aug 22, 2008)

Thank you for your help Peter.



Peter Loeser said:


> A good place to start might be to specify how many rooms will need just audio, and how many will need video and/or surround sound.
> ...
> It looks like you have one room that will get audio/video, and multiple bedrooms/bathrooms and a kitchen that will get just audio? Going from there you can determine how many runs of speaker wire, HDMI, CAT5, etc. you will need.


Audio only:
- 2 bathrooms
- 1 kitchen
- 1 laundry room
- 5 bedrooms

w/ vdo: 
- Living room 
- basement family room



> Knowing your budget and how many total speakers you need will help us make some relevant suggestions for you.


I don't really have a budget at the moment because I have no clue what I'm dealing with. I hope to get some kind of ball park from this discussion.
Things cost what they cost, you just plan and work your way to what you want.
I'm not savvy enough to distinguish all the tiny nuances of sound, but I can tell when things are missing from doing a bit of mixing in church services a few years ago. I used to hear things others didn't hear, but I am not a pro, just a hobbyist. 



> In my opinion, if your space is limited, ceiling speakers are a good option for bedrooms, kitchens, bathrooms, etc where you will just be playing background music. For your entertainment area, if you have the space, standalone speakers will typically give you the best sound quality. Again, give us an idea of your budget and how many rooms you have to work with.


I was hoping to keep everything concealed because unfortunately, 10x13 is not a lot of room, and the only wall that can accommodate the tv is the one that has the stairs to go to the 2nd floor. The other 2 walls have windows, and the other side is open with a bar on the kitchen side. Anything big would be on the path to the kitchen. I am planning on hanging the tv on that wall. A few inches is really all that can be placed there.
The family room downstairs is another matter. I can place any speakers there.

I played little in the past few months with some linux based audio/video distribution platforms, and I'm fairly confident I can get sound anywhere in the house, either synced or separate zones. For video, I looked at a project called linuxmce, that can do audio, video, building automation controls, alarm, surveillance,... the whole works, by simply booting thin clients. The advantage of these systems is that I can do anything I want with old computer hardware, and just amplified speakers. I am considering them as part of my solutions, but I'm not limited to anything at this point.


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

I would look at Polk and Klipsch for in-wall/ceiling speakers for your bedrooms/bathrooms/etc. I see now what you are saying about the main living area vs. the basement space. A wall-mounted TV with ceiling speakers would give you a really nice, clean look and sync well with the other rooms when listening to music throughout the house.

For your basement living area the only limits would be floor space and budget. There is a section in this forum dedicated to speakers, you should be able to find plenty of reviews/discussions/recommendations there: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/manufactured-speakers-subwoofers/

As far as running speaker wire near the low voltage lighting wiring - I'm not an expert, but I think the runs between the amps and speakers are less likely to be effected than the low level audio runs between your sources and amps. Again, hopefully someone here with more experience can provide more insight there.

The Linux distribution sounds interesting. I tinkered with a similar idea just to function as a music/movie file server but never did manage to get it working. Hopefully you have more patience than me!


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## hfadiga (Aug 22, 2008)

> I would look at Polk and Klipsch for in-wall/ceiling speakers for your bedrooms/bathrooms/etc.


I've been looking online, and the price range varies. Since I don't have what it takes to judge between these products, I'd rather go with recommendations for something that will give me full range, since it looks like a subwoofer is out of the picture because of the space. 
I looked @ some subwoofers that fit between the joists, but the ones I saw online don't seem to be serious audio stuff. I don't know what to make of them.




> The Linux distribution sounds interesting. I tinkered with a similar idea just to function as a music/movie file server but never did manage to get it working. Hopefully you have more patience than me!


It does not take patience these days: there are drop in CD ISOs that you just burn and run. You just need dedicated PCs to run those servers. Look @ vortexbox, and linuxmce. Both free.


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## aubuchonz99 (Mar 8, 2013)

Hi guys first post. I just wanted to ensure you use the pre construction in wall brackets for your speakers. This will save you a lot of time. And remember to wire for the future. I.e. cat 5e or 6 in all av areas and kitchen. Wireless is no substitution to a wired network. Your doing home automation, ensure you stub a conduit from attic space near your wiring enclosure to outside. You can control almost anything outside your home. Thermostats also! Sorry im all over the place I just want you to cover your bases. 

Central vac too?

Good luck,
Brian


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## aubuchonz99 (Mar 8, 2013)

I noticed you had questions about seperation of cables from electrical. Your best bet to to stay 12 in. Away from electrical. If you are forced to run parallel try to do it for only a short distance. This should reduce your emi.


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## hfadiga (Aug 22, 2008)

aubuchonz99 said:


> I just wanted to ensure you use the pre construction in wall brackets for your speakers. This will save you a lot of time.


I did not know about that, but it seems to be the right thing to do. From the reading I did, it seems hat they are designed specifically for given set of speakers. Is there a generic or universal set?



aubuchonz99 said:


> And remember to wire for the future. I.e. cat 5e or 6 in all av areas and kitchen. Wireless is no substitution to a wired network.


I purchased cat6. Now I need to understand where to pull the cables. How are the used in the av arena?



aubuchonz99 said:


> Your doing home automation, ensure you stub a conduit from attic space near your wiring enclosure to outside. You can control almost anything outside your home.


Please expand on this...



aubuchonz99 said:


> Central vac too?


Didn't think of it, but now, yes, I'm looking into it. Thanks for the suggestion!



aubuchonz99 said:


> I noticed you had questions about seperation of cables from electrical. Your best bet to to stay 12 in. Away from electrical. If you are forced to run parallel try to do it for only a short distance. This should reduce your emi.


Does this apply to low voltage 24V (things like alarms, ...)?


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## aubuchonz99 (Mar 8, 2013)

As far as the brackets go. There are some universal, however if the speaker manufacture has one for specific for your speaker, id get that one.

Cable seperation is primarily for ac voltage. Your 24 volt is fine.

Central vac. All you need to worry about is putting in your tubes and outlets. If you have hardwood floors or tile they haveba cool floor dust pans. You can always get the vacuum later. (This will increase the value of your home also.


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## aubuchonz99 (Mar 8, 2013)

Cat 6 cabling. Your going to want either your tv or dvd player on your network. This will allow you access to things like netflix or you can watch tv direcrly from your pc. Or in the future you can get a htpc. All cat 6 cable will need to go where your internet router is.


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## aubuchonz99 (Mar 8, 2013)

hfadiga said:


> I did not know about that, but it seems to be the right thing to do. From the reading I did, it seems hat they are designed specifically for given set of speakers. Is there a generic or universal set?
> 
> I purchased cat6. Now I need to understand where to pull the cables. How are the used in the av arena?
> 
> ...





aubuchonz99 said:


> Cat 6 cabling. Your going to want either your tv or dvd player on your network. This will allow you access to things like netflix or you can watch tv direcrly from your pc. Or in the future you can get a thpc. All cat 6 cable will need to go where your internet router is.


The conduit.
Where ever you are putting your home automation unit you will want to be able to access the conduit easily from this location. Your home automation typically can turn things off and on like lights or sprinkler valves, they can also interface with pool equipment. All im saying is most people would love to have a nice clean pathway from their attic to outside. Even if you dont have needs now you may in the future.


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