# dumb question



## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

Hello all,

I don't know if this is the way my receiver is made, or all receivers are made, but my left and right channel speakers are "pushing more air bass-wise" than my center channel in 5-channel mode. I have a budget $200 Yamaha HTR-5930 that I bought a couple years ago. I was thinking that in 5-channel mode, all speakers would be the same loudness. I tried connecting my center speaker to the left channel terminal on my receiver and it was louder, the mid woofer was pushing more bass than when it was in the center channel. Is this common in all receivers because the center channel is more focused towards dialog even though the receiver is set in 5-channel mode?

I am thinking of upgrading to a better receiver like the Onkyo TX-SR707, would it be the same as my Yamaha in the 5-channel mode? or would my L/R/C be pushing the same amount of bass and loudness.

I am using all the same set of speakers for L/R/C speakers.

Thanks


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hello, I would first suggest looking at the user menu and make sure that the speaker settings are all set up the same. If your receiver has YAPO use the included microphone and run the auto setup as per the instructions. 
That said the Onkyo 707 is a fairly large step up in quality and performance and would defiantly be worthwhile.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2010)

Double check the manual on your AVR and DVD/blu-ray player. Make sure you don't have the player set to a small center speaker, or that you have the AVR set to a wide/phantom setting.


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

Yup, double checked. Everything is set to be the same and my receiver doesn't have wide/phantom setting.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Do you have an spl meter? I would see how much output your getting from the sub. Is it in a large space?


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

It's not connected to a subwoofer. The little mid-woofers in my L/R bookshelf speakers are thumping more than my center mid-woofers in 5-channel mode. And nope, I don't have an spl meter.

Probably just my receiver then yeah? since it's an old budget one. It can't output equal amount of power to all channels and just focuses on L/R instead.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

wil11o6 said:


> Probably just my receiver then yeah? since it's an old budget one. It can't output equal amount of power to all channels and just focuses on L/R instead.


Its not really likely that the receiver is not able to do the same across the fronts. In the receivers menu there will be crossover settings for the left and right channel and the center, make sure that they are the same (it may just be labled "large" or "small").


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

hmm...yeah the center and fronts are set to small.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Its possible that the center simply cant go as low as the left and right speakers. What is your center?


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

From the HTR 5930 manual, it appears your receiver has a very basic balancing scheme during setup to let you equalize the other speakers to your front left, using the receiver's test tone. But without an SPL meter, I don't know how to do this accurately, and I expect you just skipped that step during setup. It appears you can also get there from the AMP, TEST buttons on the remote.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

wil11o6 said:


> hmm...yeah the center and fronts are set to small.


Looking at the manual, it appears as if by default, if the center is Small its low frequency component will be sent to the front L/R. There is a Sound Setup option 1D BASS which gives you a choice of SWFR, FRONT, or BOTH. Perhaps that explains why you are hearing more from the fronts than the center. 

Bill


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks for the help Tony and Bill,

I have two Energy CB-5 for fronts and CC-5 for center. I connected the center to the left terminals so it can go lower for sure.

Let me just reset my entire receiver settings and just start from there and see how that goes.


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

I just tried setting 1D BASS to SWFR, FRONT, or BOTH, and it all yields the same result. I ran some bass heavy files from this site and my two L/R mid-woofers are thumping and my center isn't. The highs are fine, just the bass is not there in the center.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

That's what I was suggesting. The receiver is a little strange, in that it appears you can set the front L/R to Small even though there is no sub. And then, when you set the center to Small, it is redirected to the front L/R even if they are also Small. 

From what I read, it appears if you set the Center to Large, not Small, it will keep its bass, so it may sound the same as the front L/R. 

The receiver is also a little basic; the manual suggests you can set the speakers to Small, but you have no control whatsoever of the crossover frequency. Maybe the manual is not telling the whole truth.

Bill


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

It's pretty basic, I just reset my system. I went through every option available in the display menu. I cannot set the crossover frequency or much.

So I am assuming if I get a better receiver, I'll have the same loudness throughout my 3 speakers.


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

Oh! I should also mention that, I don't know if this is important, but maybe, that my center speaker is brand spanking new. I only played an hour on it, and not too loud, while my other two L/R has been about 2 weeks and many hours of loud/low volume. Maybe it needs to be broken into? at least the mid-woofer part


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

Did you try setting the Center to Large?


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

Yes, it seems to be a little better, but not the same as my L/R but an improvement


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

wil11o6 said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I don't know if this is the way my receiver is made, or all receivers are made, but my left and right channel speakers are "pushing more air bass-wise" than my center channel in 5-channel mode. I have a budget $200 Yamaha HTR-5930 that I bought a couple years ago. I was thinking that in 5-channel mode, all speakers would be the same loudness. I tried connecting my center speaker to the left channel terminal on my receiver and it was louder, the mid woofer was pushing more bass than when it was in the center channel. Is this common in all receivers because the center channel is more focused towards dialog even though the receiver is set in 5-channel mode?
> 
> ...


My Denon 3808ci is the same way in 5 channel stereo mode but i've always assumed it is the way it is setup :huh:, The volume is the same across the board but the center just doesn't thump like the rest of the speakers and it's got 4, 5'' or 6'' drivers.:dontknow:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

wil11o6 said:


> Oh! I should also mention that, I don't know if this is important, but maybe, that my center speaker is brand spanking new. I only played an hour on it, and not too loud, while my other two L/R has been about 2 weeks and many hours of loud/low volume. Maybe it needs to be broken into? at least the mid-woofer part


A new speaker will need some time to break in in my opinion so that cold also be on of the issues.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

tonyvdb said:


> A new speaker will need some time to break in in my opinion so that cold also be on of the issues.


Not to tottaly disagree with you Tony but i don't think there would be that noticable of a differance but i won't say that it isn't plausable.:T


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

Thanks for the responses guys,

So after messing with all my settings, the best was setting my center to LRG, however it's still not thumping as much as my L/R so it's safe to say that it's just how my receiver was made.

Time for an upgrade? :sn:


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

wil11o6 said:


> ... however it's still not thumping as much as my L/R so it's safe to say that it's just how my receiver was made. ...


You could try picking up a Radio Shack SPL meter on ebay, to verify that the level from the center is set even with the levels of the front left/right. 

From there, with some cables and assuming your computer soundcard has a line-in input, you could use Room EQ Wizard to measure the response of your speakers with your current receiver. From your description, I suspect the difference you are hearing is attributable more to the speakers and the room than the receiver. You may find that you can improve the response with changes in the speaker position, or you may conclude that when you do upgrade your receiver, you will need one with a more robust built-in equalization to address room issues.

Good luck,
Bill


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

I see..well my speakers are positioned pretty much just 1 feet away from me, and it's set as 1 foot in the receiver. Could it be that my center speaker requires more wattage to power, and my receiver doesn't have a good enough amp? my two bookshelves require less. On numbers alone, it says my center should be 20-150w whereas my bookshelves are 20-100w and my receiver is only rated at 100 max watts per channel I believe.

Or is that totally irrelevant.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You need to consider how efficient they are more than how much power they require. If you have the manuals for them there will be something like 91db efficient rating under the specifications (or look on the rear of the speakers) anything above 90db is considered efficient and under that it would take more power to reach the same level of volume.


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

They both are the same @ 89db.
CC-5 and CB-5

I tried connecting the center speaker to left channel with my right bookshelf speaker. It was not thumping as much as the right one, even in the left channel, though it's more than when it was in the center channel. Sorry if that sounded confusing; maybe it's just the way the center speaker was made; not as bass-y. or maybe it's just the receiver.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Are they all 8Ω as well so there should be very little difference between the two. I'm still thinking that your receivers level is not quite set right. You also need to remember that the center channel handles the dialog in a 5.1 mix and may not carry as much dynamic information as your left and right speakers.


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## wil11o6 (Jun 24, 2010)

Yeah..that's what I'm thinking at this point. I went through all the settings in the receiver, tried every combination. My receiver has a pretty simplistic set up menu, so there isn't much I can change, but I did try everything. From changing cables to reconnecting to different terminals and every setting in setup.

Thanks for the help Tony, always so quick to reply


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

No Problem,
Like we said in an earlier post if your seriously looking at upgrading Value for money the Onkyo 707 is a great receiver.


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