# onkyo TX-607 help



## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

do you need a s-converter to bump the lfe voltage up?? 

Help please:huh:


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## GSX-R_Rider (Nov 2, 2009)

Buy the s-convert at B&H Photo - it's cheap insurance you will get the most out of your pro amp and easy to use.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

oK samson s converter looks good but i dont understand how ill hook it up from LFE on receiver to the input channel on my ep4000 can some one send me pics of theres or a diagram thanks

Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## GSX-R_Rider (Nov 2, 2009)

No - the LFE coax cable from your Onkyo will plug into the s-convert box and the on the other side of the s-convert box you will get a "balanced" signal in which you will plug a pair of XLR cables into and then run the xlr cables to your EP4000 - hence you will have converted your Onkyo's unbalanced coaxial cable signal into a balanced signal using the S-Convert box and your EuroPower amp will run more efficiently. The S-Convert also has a gain control on it so you can fine tune using the S-Convert as well. It was all foreign to me too (as my background was all home audio and not pro audio) but I can assure you when you see the s-convert box it is simple - just make sure to order a set of XLR cables that are long enough to run from your Samson box to your EP amp.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Oh i see but theres a few ways i could do this from the receiver's lfe i could go the LFE to 1/4 route where from there i use a xlr to 1/4 and there xlr to the s-converter and from there another xlr to 1/4 to the ep4000 

or 

I could go rca fromn receiver to the rca on the samson and then xlr to 1/4 to the ep4000 which is the best way?

does any on have pictures for further clarification thanks


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## GSX-R_Rider (Nov 2, 2009)

Why intro extra cables and cost and potential for noise?

Rca from onkyo to samson input rcas and then run an xlr from samson balanced xlrs to the ep4000 is all u need to do.



KrazyBassKevin said:


> Oh i see but theres a few ways i could do this from the receiver's lfe i could go the LFE to 1/4 route where from there i use a xlr to 1/4 and there xlr to the s-converter and from there another xlr to 1/4 to the ep4000
> 
> or
> 
> ...


_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Oh ok got it thanks just RCA which i have and a XLR but is it male to male?

Thanks Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

And on the s converter when i do the rca in which XLR out is it the gnd or the cold? and what should the -10 level be at? thanks


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> do you need a s-converter to bump the lfe voltage up??


It appears your original queation was never answered. No sense buying anything until you know you need it. Just my opinion.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Thats what i originally thought too Mike.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Try the TX-607 with whatever amp you're getting first. No sense spending more money than what you have to.


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## GSX-R_Rider (Nov 2, 2009)

My rationale for recommending he purchase the S-Convert (or an Art Cleanbox for that matter) is that in my research looking at how to incorporate my ep2500s into my AV system I read time and time again others who had problems with low voltage signals from home receiver pre-outs of all brands. To me spending $45 is cheap insurance of avoiding this problem and maximizing the signal sent to the pro-amp. 

I recall other individuals who said even though the pro amp would work being fed the unbalanced signal from the receiver co-axial pre-out that when a Cleanbox or S-Convert was added into the system it performed better and the gains did not have to be turned up so aggressively to achieve adequate volume levels.

My ep2500s are run off a Yamaha Rx-v665 and the LFE is fed thru an S-convert to a dedicated ep2500 and the L&R front pre-outs run into a Cleanbox and are then sent to an ep2500. Doing this also was a convenient way to convert the receiver's signal into an XLR cable without adapter cables and plugs. The gains on both ep2500s are probably at about 11pm.
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Thanks guys youve all been great pals in helping me that i appreciate!!!

Any body have pictures i just would like the visualization in my brain thanks

Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## GSX-R_Rider (Nov 2, 2009)

Kevin

Not sure if these pics will help but just snapped them quickly to give you an idea - my EP2500s and S-Convert and Cleanbox are mounted behind the wall that my AV system is located in so the wiring and set up is a little messy because this is sitting on a shelf that is mounted on a wall leading into my basement and totally out of site.

As you can see there are two EP2500s and the blue box on the top is a Samson and the slightly larger box next to the Samson is a Art CleanBox. Both modules get the job done similarly but the Samson is probably a better choice for subs right out of the box and its $20 cheaper on top of that.

You can see on the blue box that the dual LFE pre-out coax cables from my Yamaha RX-V665 receiver are plugged into the "input" of the Samson and the XLR cables balanced output comes out of the same side of the box (as you can see the XLR cables in the pic). The XLR cables from the Samson run into the back of the EP2500 input and the EP2500 runs a pair of Dayton DVC385-88 15" sealed subs. The Cleanbox works the same way and feeds a Left and Right signal into the second ep2500 for my Klipsch L&R main speakers. 

This amp rack is in a very awkward place to snap a good picture so hopefully this is of at least some help to you.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

You my friend Josh are a Godsend thanks it all makes sense im such a visual person thanks a TON

Cheers 

KrazyBassKevin


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## GSX-R_Rider (Nov 2, 2009)

No problem Kevin - I was confounded by the whole "balanced signal" vs "unbalanced" consumer signal. My knowledge of pro-audio gear was extremely limited. All I knew was I wanted to add in EuroPower amps into my system and stop relying on home receiver power and plate amps for my subs. Glad I could help you with this as I was at a total loss with it too - have fun with the EP4000 - you will never go back to lesser amps for your subs ever again (I know I won't).


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Ok so the rca that goes into the s-converter is a RCA to LFE im assuming anf the XLR's are going from the S-converter to the ep2500's cool look great..

Ok cost is and issue but not that big for 20 bucks 

So whats the difference between the S-converter and the art box and wheres the cheapest place i saw 50 but some one said 30 idk where thought?

ANother side question why do you have both boxes?? looks like the S-converter (samson) would be fine for 2 amps right arent they input 1 and 2 i saw pics and one says cold and the other gnd whats the meaning sorry im such a questioner i just dont what issue in my first big build... im scared for the custom box!!!

Thanks SOOOOO much Josh your shackster winner of the year IMO and im sure many others too!!!


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## GSX-R_Rider (Nov 2, 2009)

OK...I have both boxes because initially I added in only one EP2500 for the front channels and was using my Dayton plate amps to power my subs. The Cleanbox just happened to be the choice I made to buy. However about a month later when I decided to buy another EP2500 to run my subs I read that the Cleanbox needed to be modified for sub duty as there was a very steep unwanted roll off in the low frequency range. For that reason it was suggested that the S-Convert was a better choice right out of the box for sub amps and was only $45 from B&H Photo (versus $65 for Cleanbox from Parts Express).

Both the Cleanbox and the S-Convert only have plugs for ONE set of coax inputs and ONE set of balanced XLR outputs. Since I am running two subs my dual LFE coaxs go to the S-Convert and the front L&R mains require plug into the Cleanbox to boost my front L&R coax signal before it is sent to the 2nd EP2500.

Your question about "cold" and "ground" I believe has to do with the 3 pins that are part of each XLR male end cable and TBH I am not qualified to give you a good answer on that. Trust me once you unpack the stuff it will make total sense - I found it was more difficult to get a handle on it from reading online versus getting my hands on the gear and plugging it all in.



KrazyBassKevin said:


> Ok so the rca that goes into the s-converter is a RCA to LFE im assuming anf the XLR's are going from the S-converter to the ep2500's cool look great..
> 
> Ok cost is and issue but not that big for 20 bucks
> 
> ...


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Cool thanks so much Josh!!!

Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

KrazyBassKevin said:


> Thanks SOOOOO much Josh your shackster winner of the year IMO and im sure many others too!!!


What's the prize???? :whistling:



> Ok so the rca that goes into the s-converter is a RCA to LFE im assuming anf the XLR's are going from the S-converter to the ep2500's cool look great..


I was once in your shoes..... to avoid using more equipment/connections when I added my Samsom to power my fronts, I just bought a pro-amp with RCA connectors, all you do is connect from AVR pre-out to pro-amp and you're done (pro-amp will convert/match the voltage):innocent:


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

I understand your logic David but unfortunately the ep4000 doesn't offer that s-converter is a guy thing to have too.

Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

KrazyBassKevin said:


> I understand your logic David but unfortunately the ep4000 doesn't offer that s-converter is a guy thing to have too...


You're right, there's a lot of pro-amp (including ep4000) that will require the converter to work the way is supposed to work, I was just saying that if others want to avoid using more equipment/connections just to look for pro-amps or external amps with RCA connectors.

After reading your post I was wondering why I didn't use the S converter when I connected my SonoSub, then I realized that my amp (BKA 1000) has RCA's.....


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Yeah the Behringer ep 4000 is just such a steal for 300


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Kevin, depending on what you are up to you may also need a Hi-Pass filter. What sub are you building?


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Well currently 2 kicker cvr's but i have a FI Q coming fro Xmas, but im focused on building it for the Kickers and i do beleive i need a HP filter which the amp has i believe.

Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

The EP amp has a HPF at 30 hz. Are you building a sealed music sub?


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Yeah the sub are already in a 3/4 in mdf sealed 2.5 cubic foot box


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

What are the parameters of the Kickers and what are your plans for the Fi Q that you're getting?


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Heres the kickers

Model CVR12

Size (IN.,CM) 12, 30.5
Impedance (OHMS) 4 DVC
Max Rec Amplifier Power (WATTS PEAK/RMS)* 800/400
Sensitivity (dB 1w/1m) 86.7
Frequency Response (Hz) 25-500
Mounting Depth (IN.,CM) 6 5/16, 16.1
Mounting Cutout (IN.,CM) 11 1/8, 28.3
Min Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters) 1, 28.3
Max Rec Sealed Box Volume (CU. FT., Liters) 4.6, 130
Min Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)** 1.75, 49.6
Max Rec Vented Box Volume (CU. Ft., Liters)** 2.25, 63.7

and this is what i would idealy like to use for the music and the woofer for my HT system

and for the FI Q the dual 2 ohm

Q18

DUAL 1 | DUAL 2

Fs: 24.5 Hz | 23.8 Hz
Re: 0.7 Ohms/coil | 1.4 Ohms/coil
Qms: 5.66 | 5.73
Qes: .64 | .63
Qts: .58 | .57
Mms: 322g | 342g
Cms: 0.13mm/N | 0.13mm/N
Sd: 1210cm^2 | 1210cm^2
Vas: 268 l | 268 l
Spl: 89.7dB 1W/1m | 89.4dB 1W/1m
Bl: 10.4 N/A | 15.1 N/A
Xmax: 27mm
Rms: 1000W
Sealed box: 4-8 cuft
Ported box: 6-10 cuft @ 28Hz
Sub OD: 18.500”
Cut ID: 16.750”
Mounting depth: 10.000”
Displacement: 0.24cuft 

and the box i would like to replicate this one created by Dan

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/exodus-audio/12134-my-sealed-maelstrom-x-build.html


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

First things first. I found the parameters for the CVR12 DVC 4 ohm subs. Do you have them wired separately for a 2 ohm load or a 8 ohm load?


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Currently i think 2 separate?...I was think about making a new box maybe tuned lower towards 35 32ish with dual 6 in ports (flares) in about 4-5 cubic feet also i would like this box to easily be modified to fi the 18 if possible or a box that could keep all 3 and when i rid of the kickers just board it and seal...The box i have is good and durable but the binding plates are garbage and the box it small.

Any ideas?


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> i think 2 separate?


Are the Kickers wired separately or are they wired together?


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Currently separately cause u want to do 8 omh each channel on the ep4000 to be at around 550 watts each....

Hows that sounds...

Also i want to make a new box ideas anyone?...No sonotubes though

Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

For music a Q of .7 is considered best. The sub will take 350 watts if the 30 hz HPF is used on the amp.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

350 watts i was going to push 1450 ish through the q probably more and if i get a btl more like 2800!

but thats the future im trying to build a box and the system for what i currently own so thats the Kickers Mike what would be best for the kicker their 800watts peak i was wondering about running 550 to them on 8 omhs non bridged


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> i was wondering about running 550 to them on 8 omhs non bridged


For a music sub as shown in the model above they'll never take 550 watts. They'll bottom out long before that.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Well this is not only for music its for a HT sub as well and i was hopefully going to make a new box and 350 watts yes for blasting music that a lot and i wont have it at 100 anyways...gain come in affect there.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Any Box ideas yet guys? i saw some crazy ones in the DIY subs section....


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> Well this is not only for music its for a HT sub as well


You previously said the Kickers were for music and you were getting a Fi Q for HT. I'm lost.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Oh sorry no i dont have the q yet I have Kickers, but id like the box to be for music and HT.

And for the box to be easily modified to fit the Kickers and the Fi Q when I get it.

Sorry for the confusion guys

Cheers,

KrazyBassKevin


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Here you go. 2 Kickers and 1 Fi Q18 D2. Both need a Hi-Pass filter at 18 hz. You'll need a port 8" diameter and 20" long. Not sure how the box can be "easily modified" to switch subs but I'm sure you'll figure it out.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Cool, great this is diagram show it from the Fi q sub in the box and then if the kicker were in ther with just them selves right?

and its quite simple if you normally make a 2nd face for the woofer have that with slots for 2 kickers 12 and the first face an 18 and both of the kicker magnets will fit ther and then when you remove that board put the sencond face for the fi q and then you get th box like which i can add a port too

and picture mike of boxs similar to the diagram one??


this is the box i was thinking of 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...m-x-build.html


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> Cool, great this is diagram show it from the Fi q sub in the box and then if the kicker were in ther with just them selves right?


Yup. The link isn't working for me. You can design your own cabinet so it has a net volume of 16 cu.ft.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/enclosure-volume-calculator/


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

sorry idk why it wasnt working here try this

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/exodus-audio/12134-my-sealed-maelstrom-x-build.html


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

That's only 6 cu.ft. not 16 cu.ft. Use the calculator link I posted to see how big the box you need is.


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## KrazyBassKevin (Nov 1, 2009)

Your getting a box at 16cuft^3 with 1 FI Q???

OK Im now confusing my self Im so sorry,

here lets all imagine this is for 1 FI Q which plays mostly music like 98% and occasionally video games and for movies, i just dont see why i cant simply modify the Plans from
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/exodus-audio/12134-my-sealed-maelstrom-x-build.html
and use a FI Q 18 instead? i calculated it and i got aroud 6cuft^3 ????

CAn you help me, around 20cuft is way too big, idk where a number like that fits maybe with 3 or 4 FI Q's 

But i just want a box like dan with a Q hopefully not to big, 6cuft^3 sounds about right

Sorry for the confusion thanks,

KrazyBassKevin


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## kevin (Jan 30, 2010)

Has anyone seen the "Samson S-CONVERT " for less than $49 no tax/ free ship new in the box
I am going to also get a ep4000 this week. if you know of the best price let me know.


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