# Subwoofer recommendation needed



## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

I have a Definitive Tech Prosub 1000 subwoofer and considering getting another sub but not sure which one would be better. I am willing to spend a little more than the $500 I paid for them. I was thinking of checking out the B&W subs but I'm not familiar with them. What do you all suggest? I love base!

Thanks


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Let's get this in the right forum to start with... :T

There are several questions to ask to narrow down some more appropriate suggestions for you.

You stated you are willing to spend a little more than the $500 you paid for "them". Do you have more than one sub now and if so does that mean you are willing to spend $1,000?

Are you looking to replace what you have now with something better or add to it? 

What kind of room do you have them in... size... dedicated HT room... shared room with openings to other rooms, etc, etc?

The Def Tech subs claim output down to 18Hz, but I wonder how much output they are actually producing down that low. Have you ran low frequency measurements with REW in your room to see what kind of response you are getting?


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> The Def Tech subs claim output down to 18Hz, but I wonder how much output they are actually producing down that low.


Worth finding out. My old DefTech ProSub 200TL (c. 2003-2005) was rated "18-150Hz", but when I contacted the company, I was told the rating was actually 26-142Hz +/-3dB. :rolleyesno:


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

Thanks for responding guys and yes more information would be good huh?? .

My room is 11'x22'. I have the Def Tech BP8040ST bipolar speakers with the built-in 8" subs. So this gives me two powered subs plus the current Def Tech sub I mentioned. I'm running a 5.1 system and about to replace my newly purchased Denon 2312CI with a Onkyo 809 after reading the reviews and recommendation here today. This will give me basically three subs if you count the two in the speakers plus the dedicated one. 

What I'm saying is that I am looking to replace the dedicated sub to get another one if you all feel I will get better performance with a different sub. I have one of those subs already in my media room and it's good but I want to be sure with my new build I'm also getting the best in the price range.

The HT will be in my basement which has a bathroom, extra room and the utility room. The open area is small however. So I guess yes it's a dedicated HT room. I have not done any measurement with the current sub. Don't get me wrong it sounds nice even in my media room with lots of open space which is why I purchased another one for my HT room. If I will be getting better performance getting a different sub I will pay up to $700 for them but I would like to know how much more improvement. 

Hope this helps.

Thanks again.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

DESCypher said:


> If I will be getting better performance getting a different sub I will pay up to $700 for them but I would like to know how much more improvement.


By all accounts, the Outlaw LFM-1 EX - reg. $649; on sale (fairly often, it seems) for $549 - should both play louder and dig deeper than your current sub.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

I'll check that one out. Thx Anyone more suggestions appreciated.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I just upgraded to the SVS PB-12NSD and couldn't be happier. I researched for about 3 months before pulling the trigger. Subs are somewhat like speakers in that they seem to have dedicated followers. I would go Internet direct as that seems to be your best value. SVS, HSU, Rythmic, Empire, and the list goes on and on. I think all of these have quality offerings under $1000. Most suggest having more than 1 for home theater use however I have only 1 for now. For now…


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## chris71478 (Dec 2, 2011)

A second for SVS. Fantastic value. 600 to them got me (and my neighbors) all the bass I can handle. Plenty of output, and after equalizing, flat below 20hz.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

A third here for SVS - I have only one of my PB-13's going at the moment in an open room and it still scares my dogs! :hide:

When I first got it going, I put on the minefield scene from Finding Nemo. My wife came running from the other room - "what the was that?!" I was grinning from ear to ear........


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

LOL; nice. I've been looking and reading about them now. I haven't found a sale on them yet though! :-( But haven't looked that hard either but just reading reviews and seeing them on youtube.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

Is there a difference in the Cylinder or box type? Why would one for one or the other?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

There is no real difference between the cylinder or the box other then footprint. The cylinder stands about 6ft tall but takes up less floor space. I like the box better but its more just preference. I have a PB13u


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

That's what I figured; I prefer the box better too. I hate stuff that announces their appearance too much! LOL I'm even thinking about going with their smaller 12" box but hope I don't lose performance.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

There is a difference between the 13u and the PB12 in a fair bit more output volume but the price difference is quite substantial also.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> There is a difference between the 13u and the PB12 in a fair bit more output volume but the price difference is quite substantial also.


I'm already jealous Tony!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Dont be, I would never have been able to afford one but I won it through the Shack about 5 years ago. The PB12 is no slouch either.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I bought mine used Jeff or I would not have them either..... :bigsmile:


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Wow! Now that's a great giveaway. I love this place.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

ALMFamily said:


> I bought mine used Jeff or I would not have them either..... :bigsmile:


I'm amazed anyone would want to get rid of those things Joe. That's pretty much the top of the food chain for subs. Count me as a big fan of SVS.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I would not really count the two subs in the mains as subs. Generally their location is not the best for good performance. What would tell you is taking some measurements of the low frequency response (REW) with those subs full range and crossed over at 80Hz to see which gives you the best response. 

If you have an extra Def Tech sub in your media room, take it to your HT room and stack it on top of the other sub, then put it opposite corner, then back corner and see what kind of difference it makes. Get an idea of what more subs will do. 

You already have a lot of good suggestions and it will boil down to what you think you will like the best. I don't think you will go wrong with any of those subs over what you have now, but I would not discount the Def Tech subs until I see their room response. Low frequency measurements will tell you a LOT about your sub(s).

Why are you replacing the 2312... didn't you just get it?


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

Sonnie said:


> I would not really count the two subs in the mains as subs. Generally their location is not the best for good performance. What would tell you is taking some measurements of the low frequency response (REW) with those subs full range and crossed over at 80Hz to see which gives you the best response.
> 
> If you have an extra Def Tech sub in your media room, take it to your HT room and stack it on top of the other sub, then put it opposite corner, then back corner and see what kind of difference it makes. Get an idea of what more subs will do.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the suggestions. Yes I have another Def Tech in my media room so technically I now have two of those subs plus what's in the mains. I like your idea about bringing the other sub down to my HT room though. I will definitely have to play with that. Man money is leaving my pocket like I have a hole in it! I can't seem to find those SVS subs on sale! What gives? :-(

I'm replacing the 2312 mainly because the Onkyo gives me 2 HDMI outs for around the same price. AND I went back to Best Buy yesterday and listened to both of the receivers. They didn't have the 809 but had the 709 and I compared it with the Denon 2312 and WOW the Onkyo sounded amazing. I noticed the difference and the 2312 has a little bit more power. That's what made me look to begin with (2 outs) and the reviews has been good. The 2312 also gets great reviews.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

SVS rarely has them on sale as your getting them at a discount all the time because they only sell them on line. Sometimes you can find them used. You would probably pay well over $2500 for the PB13u if they were sold in a brick and mortar store.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

I just checked craiglist and I found some Def Tech subs. One new in the box Supercube II for $500 or OBO and used Supercube I for $600. If I can get one of these at a relative cheaper price than the SVS I may go for it. If not then I will definitely have to take a serious look at purchasing the SVS as recommended by you all. 

What do you guys think about those subs? I heard the supercube 2000 last night at BB and it sounded really good. Way better than my current Prosub 1000. One thing I know for sure now is that I will be returning my Prosub 1000 for "something" else. That decision is final. For $100 more I can get the Supercube 2000 at 650 watts.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

SuperCube 2000:
- 1 x 7.5" woofer, 2 x 7.5" passive radiators
- 650 mystery watts
- 20-200Hz +/- ??dB
- 10-1/4" (w) x 10-7/8" (d) x 10-3/4" (h) (tiny!)

A quick Google show the current retail price is $600. At that price, I'd pass on it.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

DESCypher said:


> I just checked craiglist and I found some Def Tech subs. One new in the box Supercube II for $500 or OBO and used Supercube I for $600. If I can get one of these at a relative cheaper price than the SVS I may go for it. If not then I will definitely have to take a serious look at purchasing the SVS as recommended by you all.
> 
> What do you guys think about those subs? I heard the supercube 2000 last night at BB and it sounded really good. Way better than my current Prosub 1000. One thing I know for sure now is that I will be returning my Prosub 1000 for "something" else. That decision is final. For $100 more I can get the Supercube 2000 at 650 watts.


I looked at the specs on the supercube 2000 and a couple of things stood out. The woofer is only 7.5 inches which sounds pretty small to achieve the 20hz frequency response claimed. Also it shows weighing 25 lbs which seems a little on the light side for a sub. I have never heard one for myself but I'm thinking you can do better.


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

Thank you to you both! So it sounds like the SVS at 400 watts is still a better choice at the price and performance.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

JBrax said:


> I looked at the specs on the supercube 2000 and a couple of things stood out. The woofer is only 7.5 inches which sounds pretty small to achieve the 20hz frequency response claimed. Also it shows weighing 25 lbs which seems a little on the light side for a sub. I have never heard one for myself but I'm thinking you can do better.


Correct, those numbers alone make you wonder if they are really meaningful at any decent SPL. 20Hz is getting into the area when displacement of air is crucial and a 7.5" driver no matter how long a trow just cant do. 25lbs yikes I dont think so considering the PB13u weighs a back breaking 155lbs :flex:


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

DESCypher said:


> Thank you to you both! So it sounds like the SVS at 400 watts is still a better choice at the price and performance.


I feel fairly confident in answering yes to that. Don't fall into the watts trap because I feel that's all it is. For the average consumer they equate watts with being good and that's not always the case. Those subs are pretty pricey and you can do much better.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Full disclosure - when I said I bought my subs used, I forgot to mention that I drove to Kansas City to get them - I could not find any used any closer to me. I had also been monitoring Audiogon for quite a while noticing that as soon as the SVS subs popped up, they sold relatively fast.


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## moparz10 (Sep 21, 2010)

I just upgraded to HSU VTF-3 MK4, 659.00,like the fact it can be set up in different configurations,1 port plugged or 2 or none, pete over at HSU is great to deal with.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

ALMFamily said:


> Full disclosure - when I said I bought my subs used, I forgot to mention that I drove to Kansas City to get them - I could not find any used any closer to me. I had also been monitoring Audiogon for quite a while noticing that as soon as the SVS subs popped up, they sold relatively fast.


Joe, you drove to my hometown and stole my subs! Grrrrr!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

OT but........ :sneeky: Ninja!!


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

Woo Hoo my SVS just arrived today! XMass came early...


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

this thing is BIG. Measured but seeing is a different story. Looks very nice though. Did a quick test of it as my system isn't fully installed yet. Still doing room construction but it sounded good and my CM9 is just wow fantastic. Every time I listen to it I'm glad I bought them. I can't wait to get everything setup and using the two subs. I really want to see how low this thing can go. I've only tested one with my iPad playing music with the quick setup configuration.


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## ulalazavod (Feb 22, 2012)

Are you still happy with the SVS?


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## DESCypher (Jan 27, 2012)

ulalazavod said:


> Are you still happy with the SVS?


LOVING it!


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

DESCypher said:


> LOVING it!


Same here. These SVS subs are great and mine has initiated another friend to begin spending.


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