# Pioneer SC-27 tape monitor?



## Hagar1 (Sep 18, 2009)

I have a Pioneer sc-27 receiver and I've hooked up a turntable. I've then connected two RCA cables to the CD/tape out to my HTPC via a 3.5" din stereo plugged into my Asus XONAR HDAV input. Tape monitor would work but whaere is it?

The Phono has no output control. Makes sense. So If I select PHONO, I get nothing going to my HTPC and can't see it on my monitor.

I can't for the life of me figure how to do this.

I could do this with a old $500 pioneer receiver and somehow I can't with a $2000 one?
Please no suggestions to buy a USB turntable.

Anyone have any ideas?


I'm going to once and for all knock off those LP's to CD and then sell the turntable and all.
These are LP's I cannot find on the web at all.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Is the turntable playing through the Pioneer & speakers OK?

Is the HTPC playing through the Pioneer & speakers OK?

Sounds like the problem is getting the phono signal back into your HTPC to be digitized and stored for playback, correct? Has the phono signal been actively assigned to the rca "Tape Out" of the Pioneer? I might/might not be an automatic internal connection as in AVRs of yore.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

If you’re getting sound from the speakers you know the turntable is working.

Traditionally with receivers, any source component selected was automatically sent to the record outputs. However, a few manufacturers (like Yamaha) often had a separate Record Out selector. It would allow you to record one component while listening to another. So as AudioCraver mentioned, check your manual, there might be an internal setting to route the Phono to the record outputs. If you can’t find a separate Record Out feature, then the selected source component (Phono on this case) should route to the record out jacks (both CDR and DVR) by default. If all else fails, try a Zone 2 or 3 output.

Beyond that it’s going to be an issue with the HTPC and/or your recording software. I don’t know how it is with your HTPC, but with my computer I have to go to the operating system's Sound -> Recording window and select the device I want to record from (USB mic, internal soundcard, outboard USB audio interface, etc.). Then you will probably have to do the same with your recording software.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Hagar1 said:


> I have a Pioneer sc-27 receiver and I've hooked up a turntable. I've then connected two RCA cables to the CD/tape out to my HTPC via a 3.5" din stereo plugged into my Asus XONAR HDAV input. Tape monitor would work but whaere is it?
> 
> The Phono has no output control. Makes sense. So If I select PHONO, I get nothing going to my HTPC and can't see it on my monitor.
> 
> ...


_Sorry for jumping the gun here--I know you'd like to get your gear playing nice together first)._

How many albums are you converting? Is your collection in good shape? What type of sound/archive quality did you have in mind?? You may want to archive at the best quality possible--recordist's remorse and all that. 

If you decide the debug headaches aren't worth it, your answers to these questions may steer you toward one of the many transfer services available (beware of hacks!). A reputable service can offer hi-res transfer to 24bit/96kHz FLAC and beyond using an above average analog front end (cartridge / arm / TT / phono amp) and stand-alone analog-to-digital converter.

P.S. I volunteer to buy your collection :R


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## Hagar1 (Sep 18, 2009)

AudiocRaver said:


> Is the turntable playing through the Pioneer & speakers OK?
> 
> Is the HTPC playing through the Pioneer & speakers OK?
> 
> Sounds like the problem is getting the phono signal back into your HTPC to be digitized and stored for playback, correct? Has the phono signal been actively assigned to the rca "Tape Out" of the Pioneer? I might/might not be an automatic internal connection as in AVRs of yore.


I can select PHONO and listen to the ole familiar snap crackle pop of vinyl. And I really took good care of my records. Hoping some cleaning system will help. (Spin Clean perhaps but why is it so much?)

 

But yes the problem is getting the signal to MY HTPC. My SC-27 has two analog outputs and I'm using the CD-R/TAPE output to the line in on my ASSU XONAR HDAV that is selected to receive from the line input. I get nothing. Selecting PHONO takes away any input to the monitor. So I have to select my HTPC and be able to monitor the or get output from the PHONO via CD-R/TAPE.

Thanks fro trying to help.


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## Hagar1 (Sep 18, 2009)

Interesting. I plan on knocking these off at least FLAC once I get a good wav file to work from. Probably (44kHz, 16 bit resolution). I haven't even started using Audacity and gotten that far. I did a while back and converted a few sadly to 128kps using something else, I don't remember. But you get a huge wav file and then gotta spit it up, then convert to FLAC or MP3 format. 

And when I'm done, (perhaps 10 or so albums) I'm thinking of selling at least my trusty Pioneer PL-115 with a Shure V15-V with a brand new SAS needle I just got for $180:gulp:Whatever disk cleaning system (Thinking Spin CLEAN) I end up witha dust bug and a discwasher system I have now which really doesn't work as well as I thought. 

I've thought about off line conversion. Some of those guys on You tube do a great job presenting some LP's. 

Really surprised how much ole turntables are going for. Yikes.


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## Hagar1 (Sep 18, 2009)

AudiocRaver said:


> Is the turntable playing through the Pioneer & speakers OK?
> 
> Is the HTPC playing through the Pioneer & speakers OK?
> 
> Sounds like the problem is getting the phono signal back into your HTPC to be digitized and stored for playback, correct? Has the phono signal been actively assigned to the rca "Tape Out" of the Pioneer? I might/might not be an automatic internal connection as in AVRs of yore.





Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> If you’re getting sound from the speakers you know the turntable is working.
> 
> Traditionally with receivers, any source component selected was automatically sent to the record outputs. However, a few manufacturers (like Yamaha) often had a separate Record Out selector. It would allow you to record one component while listening to another. So as AudioCraver mentioned, check your manual, there might be an internal setting to route the Phono to the record outputs. If you can’t find a separate Record Out feature, then the selected source component (Phono on this case) should route to the record out jacks (both CDR and DVR) by default. If all else fails, try a Zone 2 or 3 output.
> 
> ...


Wayne,
I had to select in Windows 7 the appropriate device and setup my ASUS XONAR HDAV as well. Audacity shows no activity. And so it goes.

Thanks
Dave


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Hagar1 said:


> Interesting. I plan on knocking these off at least FLAC once I get a good wav file to work from. Probably (44kHz, 16 bit resolution). I haven't even started using Audacity and gotten that far. I did a while back and converted a few sadly to 128kps using something else, I don't remember. But you get a huge wav file and then gotta spit it up, then convert to FLAC or MP3 format.
> 
> And when I'm done, (perhaps 10 or so albums) I'm thinking of selling at least my trusty Pioneer PL-115 with a Shure V15-V with a brand new SAS needle I just got for $180:gulp:Whatever disk cleaning system (Thinking Spin CLEAN) I end up witha dust bug and a discwasher system I have now which really doesn't work as well as I thought.
> 
> ...


You're TT quality is fine. The Shure V15-V is a giant-killer! And you're right--some vintage TT's command high prices, for those who can appreciate the differences and are willing to pay.

Yes, a spin clean system like this one makes things easier, But a proper hand cleaning can come close. You need a much more expensive vacuum machine to get best results. Here are some low-compromise tips for those on a budget: 

The web is full of record cleaning details, so I won't badger you with them. You can make it as simple or as crazy-complicated as you like. As for the Discwasher, yeah, it 's okay for pushing dust a grit around. But a lint-free, micro fiber cloth available at Wal Mart works even better. The trick is to get deep into the grooves, and the Discwasher just won't cut it. Wrap the cloth tightly around the Discwasher and fasten at the top and you're good-to-go!

Along with cleaning machines, cleaning fluid is expensive. The better, more expensive stuff dissolves more contaminants (mold, pressing lubricants, etc.). You can make your own, but for albums starting in good condition, I'd just use distilled water. It's actually better than many cheaper cleaning solutions which leave residue behind and cause more pops/crackles/swishing noises. Try the DIY method first. It's cheaper and can't hurt. If you're not satisfied, you can always go the purchased route.

But if you're leery of DIY, consider the http://www.needledoctor.com/Disc-Doctor-A-Brush-Replacement?sc=2&category=1182. It costs about as much as the Discwasher, but does a better job. It reduces noise on records previously cleaned with other pad/fluid combos I've tried. No looking back now. 

Anyway, search the web for a high-end audio store nearby. They may rent out a cleaning machine, or be willing to clean a few albums for you. Hope you get your set-up working. Sounds like you're in good hands with the other members here. Happy listening!


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

My first sense is that the LINE IN configuration in Windows under RECORDING DEVICES use WHAT U HEAR...

Next try the OPTICAL OUT of the SC27 to the OPTICAL IN of your XONAR....


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hagar1 said:


> I've then connected two RCA cables to the CD/tape out to my HTPC via a 3.5" din stereo plugged into my Asus XONAR HDAV input.


By this do you mean you’re using a 3.5mm to dual RCA splitter cable? You might try ringing it out with an ohm meter to make sure it’s good.

Did you try the Zone 2 or 3 outputs? If that doesn’t do it, and you’re confident that everything’s set right in the computer itself, then I’d definitely suspect the cable.




BlueRockinLou said:


> As for the Discwasher, yeah, it 's okay for pushing dust a grit around. But a lint-free, micro fiber cloth available at Wal Mart works even better. The trick is to get deep into the grooves, and the Discwasher just won't cut it!


Wow, that explains a lot! I always noticed that no matter how carefully I handled my records and Discwashed them before each playing, every time I played a record it had more clicks and pops than the last time. It was a source of great frustration for me. 

I finally just started dumping my LPs straight to cassette when I got them, so most of my records have seen only a few uses. That made them fairly pristine and easy to clean up in Audacity when I wanted to record them to CD.

Regards,
Wayne


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Almost hate to say it, but for 10 LPs, BlueRockinLou might be right. You are far from done, and an online or local service might be the way to go. There are probably a few dozen forum members who could do those in a weekend with their eyes closed for a dinner-for-two gift card, you could post in the Turntables &/or Vinyl forums and see if someone bites.

Nice diagram, the hookups look OK, check cable integrity like Wayne P. suggests. Not sure what else to suggest, other than some routing selection missed in the Pioneer.

PS: Go to FLACs, not MP3s.


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## Hagar1 (Sep 18, 2009)

Thanks to all for there input. 

In Windows 7, What you hear is labeled "Listen to this device" I hope. Nothing.

Tried a new pair of RCA to 3.5 pin, nothing.

I can't set the receiver to PHONO which works well. So I have to select my HTPC. I tried while listening to a LP, moving the RCA jacks from one to another OUT put.:explode: 

And then there's Audacity. Several nestled settings. Got to be a combinations of things I'm assuming.:scratchhead: 

What a project. First, resurrect my Turntable and find my Shure V15 type V needle is gone. (kids) So I invest $180 for a SAS needle.:spend:Then I need a overhang gauge and buy a pretty one from ebay for $16.95.:spend: (it was mirrored and I thought that would help, NOT) download the free one from vinyl-engine, it works.
Then setting the balance with a pretty nifty electronic gram scale for $6.:spend: That worked worked well and who knows what other uses I might put it too. Put it close enough to the receiver, buy a stereo rack to temporarily to hold it for $9.99 at good-will.:spend:Lets not forget the ANTI-SKATE. A .99 cent laser disk worked for this.

Then there's the matter of cleaning my pretty pristine records with micro fiber cloths, the right dish washing detergent and I'm not all that comfortable with it.

And I haven't even begun to transfer and digitize.

My wife is about to check me into the loon. And I'll go peacefully.:sad:

Happy Halloween
Dave


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Her is another suggestion, if your still not able to get audio out from the receivers tape out try using the zone 2 output. These usually default to the source input selection and should also get you want your looking for.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

As a last ditch effort if nothing else works, you might try the method I used for getting my albums to digital: A vintage Pioneer CD recorder. I used one of these and had great success converting my albums to digital. Like you I was converting treasured albums that had never been released to CD.

My thinking at the time (mid 2000s) was that a first-class A/D converter was make-or-break for getting a top-grade analog recording to digital, and I frankly didn’t trust those in the computer or things like USB turntables. I figured a hi-fi component CD recorder would be the ticket. I knew that Pioneer had been the premier company for CD recorders in the late 90s. My research on the internet found that some models were better than others, and pointed to the PDR-509 as a good recorder. I got one on ebay for a good price; don’t recall the exact amount but the 509 and 609 (another good one) seem to be going for ~$125 these days, which is pretty reasonable. You could always re-sell it after you complete your project.

The only caveat is that these machines require so-called “music” CD-R discs. Myself, I bought a package of three TDK music CD-RWs. 

After recording the disc it’s easy enough to rip it to your computer and then drop it onto Audacity for processing, which is exactly what I did. Audacity can do a decent job of cleaning things up by utilizing such tricks as silencing everything in front of the first note of a song, fading the ending down with the music, so that it fades into silence rather than a sea of ticks and surface noise, and so forth. Its noise reduction processing does a decent job of toning down minimal background noise and tics in quiet passages. I also had good success surgically excising the worse pops. It won’t be a cure-all for records with lots of “Rice Krispies” (i.e. snap, crackle and pop), but as I mentioned most of my records had seen minimal use, and with Audacity I was able to clean up most of them enough so that you’d think it had been an official CD release.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

AudiocRaver said:


> Almost hate to say it, but for 10 LPs, BlueRockinLou might be right.


You hate to say I might be right? Thanks, pal. Way to give a guy a complex! :unbelievable: :sob: :thud: :sarcastic:



Hagar1 said:


> What a project. First, resurrect my Turntable and find my Shure V15 type V needle is gone. (kids) So I invest $180 for a SAS needle.:spend:Then I need a overhang gauge and buy a pretty one from ebay for $16.95.:spend: (it was mirrored and I thought that would help, NOT) download the free one from vinyl-engine, it works.
> Then setting the balance with a pretty nifty electronic gram scale for $6.:spend: That worked worked well and who knows what other uses I might put it too. Put it close enough to the receiver, buy a stereo rack to temporarily to hold it for $9.99 at good-will.:spend:Lets not forget the ANTI-SKATE. A .99 cent laser disk worked for this.
> 
> Then there's the matter of cleaning my pretty pristine records with micro fiber cloths, the right dish washing detergent and I'm not all that comfortable with it.
> ...


Hello again, Dave! I feel partially responsible for your stress level, so let's try to get you through this by going back to basics. You've already invested a lot trying to get your system up and running. 

Sorry for not reading all the details, but it seems like the phono signal takes a nose dive at the HTPC. Are you able to get sound from the same HTPC inputs using a different source component? Try connecting the RCA outputs of a DVD or Blu Ray player.

Forget manual cleaning if you're uncomfortable with it. Make a dry-pass with the Discwasher before the transfer. As Wayne suggested, try software cleanup after recording. If dissatisfied, try again using spin-clean, or something else.



Hagar1 said:


> Please no suggestions to buy a USB turntable.


Not trying to persuade you otherwise. Just curious why? I'm guessing because you want to minimize your cost. I don't know much about USB turntables, but I imagine there are good ones and bad ones. This one from Audio Advisor seems to have good credentials. Again, not trying to persuade you (see my next post).


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> *As a last ditch effort if nothing else works, you might try the method I used for getting my albums to digital: A vintage Pioneer CD recorder. *I used one of these and had great success converting my albums to digital. Like you I was converting treasured albums that had never been released to CD.
> 
> My thinking at the time (mid 2000s) was that a first-class A/D converter was make-or-break for getting a top-grade analog recording to digital, and I frankly didn’t trust those in the computer or things like USB turntables. I figured a hi-fi component CD recorder would be the ticket. I knew that Pioneer had been the premier company for CD recorders in the late 90s. My research on the internet found that some models were better than others, and pointed to the PDR-509 as a good recorder. I got one on ebay for a good price; don’t recall the exact amount but the 509 and 609 (another good one) seem to be going for ~$125 these days, which is pretty reasonable. *You could always re-sell it after you complete your project.*
> 
> ...


+1 for that solution. Should be cheaper than hiring a service to do the transfers; and the quality of the final product stays under your control.

I accomplish the same thing using a Burwen TNE7000A analog tick&pop machine along with an Alesis Masterlink 9600 digital HD/CD recorder with DSP processing (PEQ / Compressor / Limiter / Normalizing / Fade / Cut&Paste ). *More work at higher cost.* But you may be able to find the 9600 cheap.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

BlueRockinLou said:


> You hate to say I might be right? Thanks, pal. Way to give a guy a complex! :unbelievable: :sob: :thud: :sarcastic:


I am sure you know I did not mean it that way. I hated to discourage Hagar1 from his path after all the time, effort, and money he had invested in it.:bigsmile:


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

AudiocRaver said:


> I am sure you know I did not mean it that way.


Yes, I do. No harm, no foul. Looked for a "winking" smilie for that post, but couldn't find one.


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