# MartinLogan Montis and StageX Loudspeaker Review Discussion Thread



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

*MartinLogan Montis and StageX Speaker Review Discussion Thread*​[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/images/montis_stage_review_header.jpg[/img]


MartinLogan Website
Montis MSRP: $9995 Pair
StageX MSRP: $3295 Each
Available at your Authorized
MartinLogan Dealer


*by Wayne Myers*


*Introduction*

When Home Theater Shack owner Sonnie Parker first received his new pair of Montis speakers from MartinLogan, he sent me an email reporting that he had quickly set them up, guessing at the best location and angle for two-channel listening in his home theater, plugged them in, sat down to listen, started up some music, and found them sounding so great he about cried. He listened to them for hours on end almost without touching that initial setup over the next few weeks until I arrived to evaluate the Montis and the accompanying MartinLogan StageX center channel speaker for this review.

When I first heard the MartinLogan Montis, I instantly understood what he meant. Everything about their presentation was just downright impressive. That was the first of two times that I would get chills over the next few days while working with Montis and StageX speakers.

Read the full *MartinLogan Montis and StageX Speaker Review.*


----------



## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Having had a chance to read through the review already, I was astounded by the amount of effort Wayne and Sonnie put into doing this review - great job!

Really looking forward to seeing/ hearing them!


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Sonnie? This is all Wayne... my only part was having the speakers.

Awesome review by the way! :clap:


----------



## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

No kidding. Excellent review guys! I need to step up my game. Would love to just sit and listen while these guys tinker and test.

edit: Well Sonnie, you are doing a stellar job of having speakers!


----------



## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Sonnie said:


> Sonnie? This is all Wayne... my only part was having the speakers.
> 
> Awesome review by the way! :clap:


I am guessing you provided the muscle while Wayne listened to see if you needed to adjust more - that is worth something (or I do even less at our evaluations than I thought! )


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

There ya go... I did the heavy lifting, although the Montis are pretty light compared to the Prodigy's.

I do know it sounded considerably better after he left than when he got there, and I thought they were pretty good to start with.


----------



## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Sonnie, all I can say is congradulations. I know how pleased you were with you last set up, I can only imagine how satisfied you must feel now. My guess is you are home now, I'm happy for you knowing how much you enjoy this!


----------



## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

I haven't read through the entire review yet, but I did notice something that might need your attention... when you click on the StageX picture at the top all you get is an error message. The link for the pic is broken.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

theJman said:


> I haven't read through the entire review yet, but I did notice something that might need your attention... when you click on the StageX picture at the top all you get is an error message. The link for the pic is broken.


Got it fixed. Thanks.


----------



## Almadacr (May 5, 2011)

Nice review , at some point i would like to ear myself this speakers but they are hard to find locally and to have a serious listening and at the Montreal show never ML was present officially .


----------



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Great review, thank you so much.

I have not heard this model but do have some experience with Martin Logan and can say y'all have hit the nail on the head. The stunning reproduction of lower mid's on through the highest frequencies is hard to beat, soft and delicate when called upon and yet raw and loud the next. Soundstage for days that is hard to duplicate yet exceed. 

Yes, the surround version of Wish You Were Here on the blu ray ( immersion) is only beat by attending a live performance. Stunning !


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Fantastic review gentlemen! :T I enjoyed it all, and it has suddenly and unexpectedly piqued my interest in electrostats, which previously have not been something I have seriously considered. I very much look forward to Wayne's review of the EM-ESL speaker to see how much of the Montis goodness has been packed into it. That is a speaker I could afford (barely) and consider owning. Although it will be in a different room with different equipment, I hope to see some comparisons of the Montis and the EM-ESL to get a feel for how close I could get to the Montis.

One part of the setup that would be difficult for me would be the distance from the front wall. I could set speakers up at 6 - 7 feet away from the front wall for 2-channel listening, but that position would put them nearly 4' ahead of the screen. How would things sound for movies and multi-channel music videos if the front of the speakers were 2.5 - 4 feet away from the wall behind them?


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Oh, also I'm curious about the Wish You Were Here blu ray disc. I found one on Amazon, but it appears to be a documentary. I was under the impression it was a live concert. Which one would I be looking for? Thanks.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

bkeeler10 said:


> Fantastic review gentlemen! :T I enjoyed it all, and it has suddenly and unexpectedly piqued my interest in electrostats, which previously have not been something I have seriously considered. I very much look forward to Wayne's review of the EM-ESL speaker to see how much of the Montis goodness has been packed into it. That is a speaker I could afford (barely) and consider owning. Although it will be in a different room with different equipment, I hope to see some comparisons of the Montis and the EM-ESL to get a feel for how close I could get to the Montis.
> 
> One part of the setup that would be difficult for me would be the distance from the front wall. I could set speakers up at 6 - 7 feet away from the front wall for 2-channel listening, but that position would put them nearly 4' ahead of the screen. How would things sound for movies and multi-channel music videos if the front of the speakers were 2.5 - 4 feet away from the wall behind them?


OK, a little leak on the ESL review... Still writing, but - performance is very close to the Montis, although not as deep in the bass (ported vs. sealed with DSP) and maybe not as well suited for a big room like Sonnie's. In my smaller rooms, and about 3 feet out from the wall - Dynamite! Lots more to say about them, but that is the quick summary. (Oh, and some more detail on getting an absolutely _killer_ soundstage.)



bkeeler10 said:


> Oh, also I'm curious about the Wish You Were Here blu ray disc. I found one on Amazon, but it appears to be a documentary. I was under the impression it was a live concert. Which one would I be looking for? Thanks.


You want the Hybrid SACD, like this one on Amazon. It is not a live concert, but a recent 5.1 remix of the original album.


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

AudiocRaver said:


> In my smaller rooms, and about 3 feet out from the wall - Dynamite!


Now that's good to hear. Really intrigued by these.

Thanks for the music tip! Have fun this weekend. Hopefully the Montis has not spoiled you too much!


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

bkeeler10 said:


> Now that's good to hear. Really intrigued by these.
> 
> Thanks for the music tip! Have fun this weekend. Hopefully the Montis has not spoiled you too much!


Between the Montis and the ESL, spoiled pretty rotten! But I believe I still have that _impartiality_ hat around here somewhere, gotta dust that off and take it along. Actually, with the models we have lined up, it should not be a problem. Firing up a new pair of speakers the first time is always a thrill.


----------



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Awesome review... would LOVE to hear these in action:T


----------



## trans40 (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks for this very informative review/set-up tutorial! I've already significantly improved my sound using the set-up information. The sweet spot information is really quite valuable, and adjusting the rake with that information as a guide made a very worthwhile difference to my ears. I do have several questions I'd like to throw out, and any help would be appreciated:

1. Is the speaker plane to ear plane measurement correct? Only 69"? Is that typical?
2. What does Listening Angle (in this case, 21.5 deg off axis) refer to? This term confuses me.
3. Is it best to absorb as much of the rear reflections as possible if you're limited by external contraints to 40" from speaker plane to the front wall? I just haven't been able to draw a clear conclusion via listening because the answer seems to vary depending on what's being played - or depending on something else I'm not aware of..... 

Thanks


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

trans40 said:


> 1. Is the speaker plane to ear plane measurement correct? Only 69"? Is that typical?


Probably not typical the way most people would set them up, but then neither was the result we got. That setup gave us a very deep soundstage. We tried locations closer to the front wall, also with excellent results, but Sonnie preferred this one.



> 2. What does Listening Angle (in this case, 21.5 deg off axis) refer to? This term confuses me.


Zero degrees Listening Angle means the speaker is pointed straight at the listener. If it is turned away from the listener, usually outward - for instance the left speaker pointing toward the chair to the left of the listener, from his seated perspective - then the angle of that turn is the Listening Angle.

Zero degrees Toe-In means the speaker points straight at the back wall.



> 3. Is it best to absorb as much of the rear reflections as possible if you're limited by external contraints to 40" from speaker plane to the front wall? I just haven't been able to draw a clear conclusion via listening because the answer seems to vary depending on what's being played - or depending on something else I'm not aware of.....


I say no, but the answer is actually a bit complicated. There will be quite a bit of detail in the MartinLogan ESL review I am finishing right now. Hopefully it will be helpful.


----------



## trans40 (Sep 25, 2009)

Thanks very much for your reply. After "just following" your recommendations (from the review and from your 2-ch setup guide) instead of "finding excuses not to", I have a pretty stunning soundstage, and without any real compromises. Well..., the speakers do "seem like" they're in my lap, but who cares? I'll get used to that. To anyone else reading this who is "not so sure" - consider just trying what the AudiocRaver suggests. Looking forward to the rear reflections information in your ESL review. Regards, Thom


----------



## green giant (May 24, 2013)

Basic question - can these play Rock and Hard Rock well.

I've always liked the sound of 'Stats, yet I've never really had the time to pop in some AC/DC, Metallica, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Van Halen... and let it rip.

I've heard electrostats aren't great for this, but there are a couple reviews that say these do much better for hard rock.

Would love your guys opinion.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Key for MartinLogan is the hybrid design with a cone driver handling low frequencies so the max excursions of the panel remain very small. We rocked out quite a bit with the Montis and they never complained. We have heard other all-panel speakers "fuzz out" on heavier bass notes, but never the MatrinLogans. That is one of the main qualities I like so much about them.


----------



## sandeep_ML (Feb 20, 2016)

I have a question. Just booked a Montis and Stage-X to replace my Paradigm Studio 100. For HT playing , would you set the Front L/R cross over frequency in AV Receiver to 40hz or more. I have a paradigm Sub 15 which goes low up to 34hz. For stereo playback, i use stereo integrated amp and the speakers will run at full range as expected.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Still one of my most favorite reviews... astounding job Wayne!

Considering the Impression 11A's now. :bigsmile:


----------



## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Those read as pretty impressive also. I'm sure Wayne could manage some time to eval those as well!


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Trying to get a pair now... I think there is another GTG brewing really soon!

New Arx 5's... new ML's... sweet to the ears! Review time!


----------



## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Now that's what I'd call stirring the pot! Looking forward to seeing how the new players hold up!

I wonder if ML ever considered smaller electrostatic panels for Dolby Atmos application. Small, maybe like 24' X 8." Could mount them close to the ceiling & that curved panel would probably be great with dispersion. They would weigh practically nothing!


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

I hope there will be a thread opened up about this GTG if it happens  Would love to hear how the A5 stacks upto the mighty ML and all the other speakers y'all have heard in the CCC since the original A5. Seriously considering the upcoming L7 when it hits


----------



## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I wouldn't expect the A5 to keep up with the ML. That is just a different class of speaker. I originally intended to get the L7 set, but they were taking longer to develop. I had the money during the A5rxc's group buy & I new they sounded great, so I went for them. And they are sweet. 

The A7 however should be able to hold its own. Jon says he expects if to be "really something special that he has always wanted to put his name on." I think he wants it to be his statement piece. As good as Jon is at building/designing speakers...I'm really looking forward to them as well. 

It's funny how everybody in that 1st eval has wound up with a pair of them! Truly great speakers for the dollars that Jon charges.


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Yes of course it would be unreasonable to think that the $10k pair of speakers wouldn't be a better performer than the <$1k pair. Plus they're very different technologies. Still, comparisons are always interesting. I'm really looking forward to seeing how the L7 turns out though.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Trying to work out a pair of the 13A's instead of the 11A's... and will be all over the L7's when they happen! No doubt... Lord willing that is!


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Sonnie said:


> Trying to work out a pair of the 13A's instead of the 11A's... and will be all over the L7's when they happen! No doubt... Lord willing that is!


Excellent.

Just corresponded with Jon a few days about the L7, hoping to get the first review pair when they come off the line.


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Been waiting a long time for the L7, and may end up buying a pair before a review. Jon has been silent on the timeline for a while now, so I have no idea how much longer it will be, but I'm not ready yet anyway. Regardless, very much looking forward to reading what you think about it, Wayne.


----------



## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

I hear you. You gotta remember Jon is in the pre-release period on his new/upgraded line. Still taking orders. I'm sure he will want to finish off that run before moving on. If I know Jon, there are several prototypes hanging out in his work room getting tweaked.


----------



## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

I have read through this review with much interest since I own the exact same speakers and planning to build a HT setup with it.

I have a few comments or points of discussion after going through the article a couple of times.

I miss the measurements of the initial speaker setup at the beginning of the review, it would have been nice to be included. I recalculated the dimension mentioned for the final placement, the LP angle on top of the toe in angle makes it a bit confusing but roughly ends up around 69in of distance in the speaker plane, resulting in around 90in from LP to speaker, which is less than 108in x 1+ which is recommended by ML. This makes it a near field field LP while in your review about the ESL9 you chose a mid field LP. But if I am correct the width of the Cedar Cinema is 138in (11.5ft) and while the speakers are placed 108in apart you measured the distance from the side wall to be 60in which results in a total width of the room of 228in which doesn't add up unless my metrical brain is screwing thing up for me.

I wonder what can happens when you time the reflections of the front speaker with the direct sound of the surround speakers, or the reflective sound of the surround speakers if there is any. I like to use these speaker for my home cinema build but everyone seems to agree that they aren't a good idea but more suited for music, which you seem to suggest with your review as well since you mainly use music as review material.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Cedar Creek Cinema is 19.5ft wide... (11.5' was the very first CCC)... but you should be able to tell from the pics it's wider than 11.5'. :T

They work absolutely wonderfully for movies... they present a great sound stage that really immerses you into the movie. You need Dirac Live or Audyssey for the system to perform its best.

What ML recommends may not always necessarily be the best for everyone. It is perhaps a good starting point. You will need to work out the placement that gives you the best imaging, sound stage and depth acuity.

I will let Wayne chime in with his comments.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

No doubt about it, they sounded phenomenal for cinema as well as for music.

As with your post about the ESLs, I will follow up with detailed answers tomorrow.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

To put an exclamation mark on it... I am ordering 4 MartinLogan EM-IC 6.5" speakers to mount in my ceiling for ATMOS. Now running 13A's up front with the Stage X and the ESL's for surround. Planning a 5.2.4 ATMOS setup.


----------



## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Sonnie said:


> To put an exclamation mark on it... I am ordering 4 MartinLogan EM-IC 6.5" speakers to mount in my ceiling for ATMOS. Now running 13A's up front with the Stage X and the ESL's for surround. Planning a 5.2.4 ATMOS setup.


 It's good to see you posting again Sonnie! We miss you around here. Atmos has been a nice addition in my setup. I think you'll enjoy it.


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Sonnie said:


> To put an exclamation mark on it... I am ordering 4 MartinLogan EM-IC 6.5" speakers to mount in my ceiling for ATMOS. Now running 13A's up front with the Stage X and the ESL's for surround. Planning a 5.2.4 ATMOS setup.


Sonnie, this is awesome that you're getting set up for Atmos. I wonder why you chose to do 5.1.4 instead of 7.1.4. If I recall right, your room is plenty deep enough to accommodate surround back speakers, and I figured you already had them set up in your prior layout. Just curious. I bet that Martin Logan setup is going to sound awesome.

Nice to hear from you again :wave:


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

bkeeler10 said:


> Sonnie, this is awesome that you're getting set up for Atmos. I wonder why you chose to do 5.1.4 instead of 7.1.4. If I recall right, your room is plenty deep enough to accommodate surround back speakers, and I figured you already had them set up in your prior layout. Just curious. I bet that Martin Logan setup is going to sound awesome.
> 
> Nice to hear from you again :wave:


II believe it is mainly a matter of availability of content in 7.1 vs 5.1. and also, Sonnie's room, although large, is a little crowded where a pair of rear speakers would go.


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Good point about content, although it's worth noting that all Atmos tracks will use surround back channels if present (whether decoded by an Atmos renderer or by a standard TrueHD decoder).


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Wayne said it... as I understand, the rears should be about the same height as the surrounds, which is a serious issue, unless I do away with my acoustic panel covered cabinets. I could do a pair of very small speakers up high, but not sure how much I would notice them.


----------



## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeah, Dolby calls out for all surround speakers to be about ear height. Obviously you have to have them high enough to clear furniture and the heads of anyone in the back row, so that the front row has line of sight to them. Ideally not higher than required though. 

Based on what I've read, if you have to have them up near the ceiling, it in fact may not be worth doing. OTOH, if you already had them I would keep using them myself. IMHO.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

JBrax said:


> It's good to see you posting again Sonnie! We miss you around here. Atmos has been a nice addition in my setup. I think you'll enjoy it.


Thanks Jeff... and I am around... just don't post much anymore. Got too much going on with my other businesses. But all along I get the bug to do something to my room and like to poke my head in. Although a reply to the review did get my attention to post this time around.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Sonnie said:


> Wayne said it... as I understand, the rears should be about the same height as the surrounds, which is a serious issue, unless I do away with my acoustic panel covered cabinets. I could do a pair of very small speakers up high, but not sure how much I would notice them.


I would not change a thing, knowing your room and preferences.

I will be there within the next few weeks for an _audio kraziness and funn_ kind of visit. No doubt it will be a topic of discussion.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Primare Knob said:


> I have read through this review with much interest since I own the exact same speakers and planning to build a HT setup with it.
> 
> I have a few comments or points of discussion after going through the article a couple of times.
> 
> I miss the measurements of the initial speaker setup at the beginning of the review, it would have been nice to be included.


"Final" means after anywhere between 2 or 3 or 20 or 30 moves. The only one that really matters is the last one. Trying to record the details of every one of them can be prohibitive.



> I recalculated the dimension mentioned for the final placement, the LP angle on top of the toe in angle makes it a bit confusing but roughly ends up around 69in of distance in the speaker plane, resulting in around 90in from LP to speaker, which is less than 108in x 1+ which is recommended by ML. This makes it a near field field LP while in your review about the ESL9 you chose a mid field LP. But if I am correct the width of the Cedar Cinema is 138in (11.5ft) and while the speakers are placed 108in apart you measured the distance from the side wall to be 60in which results in a total width of the room of 228in which doesn't add up unless my metrical brain is screwing thing up for me.


i think of near field as being within arm's reach. My DAW workplace speakers are nearfield. A distance of 7.5 feet is not nearfield, more like midfield, if that. Depends on the room and the definitions.

Cedar Creek Cinema is 234 in wide.



> I wonder what can happens when you time the reflections of the front speaker with the direct sound of the surround speakers, or the reflective sound of the surround speakers if there is any. I like to use these speaker for my home cinema build but everyone seems to agree that they aren't a good idea but more suited for music, which you seem to suggest with your review as well since you mainly use music as review material.


"Everyone seems to agree" but me and Sonnie and anyone who has heard his room and watched movies there and a number of others I can think of who used electrostatics for cinema. True, I sometimes focus on music for reviews, I have found the demands to be far more critical, and the music-to-cinema "bridge" to be quite predictable for hybrid electrostatics like MartinLogans. An assumption is that room treatment and correction like Dirac Live, with its custom target curves, will be in play.


----------



## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

Sonnie said:


> To put an exclamation mark on it... I am ordering 4 MartinLogan EM-IC 6.5" speakers to mount in my ceiling for ATMOS. Now running 13A's up front with the Stage X and the ESL's for surround. Planning a 5.2.4 ATMOS setup.


I will be following that idea with great interest. I am curious how the panels work out as surround speakers.


----------



## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

AudiocRaver said:


> An assumption is that room treatment and correction like Dirac Live, with its custom target curves, will be in play.


What treatment would you suggest? I found sound absorption not working to great with the speakers on the front or side wall.


----------



## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

One would have to see the room, speaker and LP placement, REW measurements, to be able to say...:|


----------



## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

I hope that I am not posting this in the wrong place. My apologies if I do.

I am trying to figure out where the flat line comes from starting around 12kHz, as it seems to be only happening with my speakers.
I am not sure if this is the mic, as it produces different results per different speaker. With my surrounds the flat line starts around 16kHz, but still ruler flat from there on.

I have tried different amplifiers and different construction type of speaker cable but it did not make a difference.


----------

