# I need Pioneer MCACC Help



## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I own an Elite vsx 21thx

I'm having trouble figuring out how to apply Advanced EQ calibrations to different memory presets.

What I would like to do is to be able to hear what different EQ Calibration time periods sound like.

Just for example, I ran Auto MCACC for Symmetry and saved it to memory preset 1.

I then copied the results to memory preset 2 and memory preset 3.

What I would *like* to do is run the Advanced EQ Set-up Calibration with a calibration time of 30-50ms and save the results to symmetry data on memory preset 2. Next, I'd like to run the Advanced EQ Set-up Calibration with a calibration time of 60-80ms and save the results to the symmetry data on memory preset 3.

The idea being, when I am watching a movie, I can press the "MCACC" button on the remote and switch between memory preset 1, preset 2, and preset 3... to hear the difference of Auto MCACC Symmetry, Auto MCACC Symmetry with Advanced EQ Set-up Calibration 30-50ms, and Auto MCACC Symmetry with Advanced EQ Set-up Calibration 60-80 ms.

The problem is, it appears that when I run the Advanced EQ Set-up Calibration, it applies the results to all of the memory presets. I say this, because the graphical results for each (Reverb) look exactly a like for all the memory presets. At one point I erased memory preset one... and when I looked at the graphical results, it said I had run calibration and it showed me the same results that I have on preset 3!

So the short end to my question: How do I tell the AVR that I only want to apply Advanced EQ calibration to a specific Memory Preset? Is that possible? Or, when you run Advanced EQ calibration, does it apply the results to all of the memory presets?????

I've tried exiting the MCACC set-up menu... cycling through the memory presets with the remote control button, selecting one --- for this example, let's say I selected Memory 2 (as if I was going to watch a movie using that preset, and then pressing the menu button to get back to the MCACC set-up page (thinking if I ran the Advanced EQ it would apply it to Memory 2. Doesn't seem to work.

Can someone please help me? :dontknow:


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Btw - I called pioneer tech support. I had to call 3 times. Why? Because they hung up on me after I asked the question above...

Can you believe that???

Found it really frustrating... And it's not that I was being rude. Literally, after asking the question, I'd hear a click and the call was over! 

Their tech support stinks


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

This might be a thread where I do all of the corresponding to myself:rofl2:

Anyhow, I just had a thought... are all of the advanced calibrations automatically saved to preset one? Then, as a user, are you supposed to save them to preset 2, 3, 4, 5, or 6?

In other words, I could run an advanced eq of 30-50 ms... and then go to the data management screen and copy and save memory one to memory two? 

That doesn't make sense though, now that I think about it. Because, if you run a full auto-MCACC, you have an option of saving symmetry to memory 1, front align to memory 2 and all adjust to memory 3.

addle:

The answer to this question is driving me crazy:dumbcrazy:


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

lddude: Talking to myself again...

The issue really isn't that complicated. What complicates the matter is that the user interface for MCACC is absolutely atrocious and the manuals are written poorly... add on to that a tech line that hangs-up on you (over and over again... which pretty much tells me they couldn't answer the question) and this is what you get... confusion over a relatively simple issue.

To compound the matter, if you don't understand how the time frame parameters for the reverb capture in the standard EQ vs the adjustments you can make to the time frame capture in the Advanced EQ mode... OR if you don't understand how to interpret the reverb line graph... then you are out of luck if you are only looking in the manual that came with your AVR. In order to understand these differences, you need to read the _Operating Instructions: Advanced MCACC PC Display Application Software_. This manual can be downloaded from the web (and found easily by googling Pioneer MCACC).

My problem, as I tried to explain through in my OP, was identifying how to run Advanced EQ on specific memory presets. It would be nice if Pioneer tagged each preset with all of the various options you've run on it. Alas, outside of basic blanket tags, they don't provide us with that ability. In addition to that, a Pioneer or Elite receiver can only save Reverb (before and after EQ) results for one test... it doesn't save the results for each Memory Preset. For example, if you run a reverb test for Memory Preset 5... then switch the MCACC mode you are using to Memory Preset 4, when you re-enter the MCACC menu mode and look at the Reverb Results (again, while running Memory Preset 4) you will see the test results from Memory Preset 5! :blink: Yeah, makes a lot of sense, eh?:rofl:

Now to the good stuff:nerd:. They way you select which memory preset you will run Advanced EQ operations on (or... other tasks like setting channel level, distance... or manually tweaking EQ for a specific channel) is the following:

1) Exit the MCACC mode
2) Use your remote and press the MCACC button
3) Cycle through the MCACC Memory Presets (they will be displayed on the front of your AVR).
4) Stop on the Preset you want to alter (or use)
5) Re-enter the MCACC Menu Mode
6) Run your operations

Of course... this process is a complete pain in the :yikes:. If you are making 6 different presets... not only will you be copying data within presets... but you are also constantly exiting the MCACC Menu mode to switch Memory Presets!!!!!:hissyfit: Oh, and by the way, once you are in the MCACC menu it never identifies which Memory Preset mode you are running. So if you have to take a break, or get distracted, it can make it very difficult to remember which mode you are running.onder:

So, I've simplified the process. I set my AVR to Memory Preset 1. Then I entered the MCACC menu and created a baseline configuration of speaker distance and channel level. I saved that to Memory preset 6. I then ran the EQ operation I was interested in trying first (remember, I entered the MCACC menu while running Memory Preset 1... so any alterations I make will be applied to the data stored in Memory Preset 1). I took notes as to which operations I ran (in this case different Advanced EQ, all channel adjust, with a 30-50ms time frame)... when the operation(s) were completed, I copied the data and saved it to memory preset 5. I then renamed memory preset five to best represent what operations I had performed on it (either selecting symmetry, front align, or all adj). I then erased memory preset 1... then recopied my baseline saved in Memory Preset 6 BACK to Memory Preset 1. A clean slate without having to exit the MCACC Menu and cycle to through memory presets on the front of the AVR (which, again, can get confusing... especially confusing if you think that reverb results will be saved for each individual memory preset:rant.

So, by repeating the above process, you don't need to constantly exit the MCACC menu and it's much easier to keep track of all of the operations you've performed and where they are saved.:T

Frankly, shame on Pioneer for their poorly written manual and their tech support professionals who SHOULD KNOW their products inside and out. 


I have to say, I've read through MCACC operation threads on the net for various groups... there are a lot of very confused users out there... even users who are suggesting which EQ's to run while at the same time admitting they don't understand how they work. Or making assumptions on how something works based on a result when the reality is that the result was more due to their unique circumstance rather than the purpose/architecture of the process! That alone shows how maddening and poorly executed the MCACC operation instructions are for the average user.

Come on, Pioneer!!! You can do better than that.


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

Hi Todd
Visited this page of anguish from the links you gave me. I recall how
fiercely loyal the support is for Audyssey by its founder and CEO Chris. K! Prompt, pertinent, makes you want Audyssey all the way. And to think that I am gonna get my Pio sc lx86 in a day!! Thanks for your research analysis. I feel ready sort of;-)
Best
Manu


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Manu -

MCACC is a great tool. When I first tried to use it, the results were awful... no bass... mids were thin... it sounded like it was coming out of a tin can. But, I stuck with it, educated myself. Tweaked the settings for my particular room situation, and the results have been awesome.

Good luck!
Todd


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

Todd

Thanks. Been reading a lot on this subject. This HTShack is a great place to be in when u have products likeMCACC with no Pio support. I tried to "ask the experts " in Pio. Yet to get a response?


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I did not see this thread when it was started, sorry bout that.
I have the VSX-23 and there are some differences here and there from the VSX-21 even though they share a manual.
So keeping in mind the various AVRs and MCACC implementations vary along with the options available for user adjustment when I do a full calibration memory 1-3 is populated with calibrations weighted towards different goals.
I resave M1-M3 in M4-M6 and when I am making adjustments I do it in M1-M3 since that is where the AVR defaults to for calibration saves.
After much messing around in the end I decided I liked the way the system sounds best using the calibration that EQed all the speakers to the front L/R.
If you are willing to make the investment and learn to use REW the MCACC looks to be muchmore flexible than the Audessey (to be fair with that statement I have only seen the Denon 1912 implementation).
A lot of people really criticize Pioneer for not having EQ below 60 Hz, whether that's a legitimate criticism really can be debated, I have literally seen hundreds (maybe a thousand) of complaints about the different cal software killing bass or worse yet making subs bottom out.
The single most effective way to better bass is finding a good location for the sub, I am not saying EQ below 60Hz is not worthwhile but it does appear that EQ in this region can do as much harm as good without using a stand alone measurement tool to see what is actually going on in your room.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Yes... I use REW (and a B. Feedback Destroyer) along with MCACC. I used REW to identify the best placement for my subs... and y parametric equalizer is only used to cut peaks. I used all of these tools along with room treatments (although, I'll admit it's really tough to control much below 50-60 Hz with bass trapping... much of that rests on the shoulders of placement and EQ). I love the results.



Taking the time to learn MCACC is half the battle. They seriously need to consider a manual re-write. I'd be happy to help!


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Like myself you had to figure it out on your own, you went the extra mile with the LFE EQ though.
I was lucky that there are no huge nulls or peaks (SPL meter only) with my bass.
There is a lot of information in the manual, but the manual has to be studied and taken as a whole instead of a single paragraph or section at a time.
The link you provided for the PC interface is also very good info for all Pioneer owners to be aware of.


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

chashint said:


> I did not see this thread when it was started, sorry bout that.
> I have the VSX-23 and there are some differences here and there from the VSX-21 even though they share a manual.
> So keeping in mind the various AVRs and MCACC implementations vary along with the options available for user adjustment when I do a full calibration memory 1-3 is populated with calibrations weighted towards different goals.
> I resave M1-M3 in M4-M6 and when I am making adjustments I do it in M1-M3 since that is where the AVR defaults to for calibration saves.
> ...


Hi, chashint
You are spot on over the sub placement. Makes a huge improvement to the bass and blending it with the other speakers! I follow the sub crawl ( popularized by Alan Loft of Axiom. Any other idea? ) for my sub placement and boy, the the improvement was enormous. Together with Audyssey in my current Denon 4311 the audio has been fine.I also use the absorbers, bass traps and diffusers.i do not use the REW.Not learnt how to.Any links and suggestions?On this subject of REW, can I use the mic shipped with Audyssey or MCACC for REW calculations?
Best
Manu


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Hopefully someone else will pick this up and help since I have no experience with REW.
The 4311 is a top tier AVR, much higher up the food chain than my Pioneer VSX23.


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## eyekode (Jan 19, 2008)

The best spot for REW help is right here on the shack's forum. I am not sure if you can use your mic but I bet not. You will need a windows computer/laptop to run REW.
Salem


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Yeah, head over to the REW forum.


I'm guessing you can't use that mic, either.

By the way, you can use a Mac also!


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

27dnast said:


> Btw - I called pioneer tech support. I had to call 3 times. Why? Because they hung up on me after I asked the question above...
> 
> Can you believe that???
> 
> ...


I think they may not have wanted to take the call, because your receiver works as advertised. I have called them before and they were very helpful when I had issue with missing parts that should have been included with my purchase.


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

Fair enough but they can pick the phone up and say so! To hang up on a guy who uses their product is not nice IMO
Manu


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

I'm not sure how much this helps you. 

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/staticfiles/index.html


The phone may not have been helpful, have you tried using their email support yet?


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

8086 said:


> I'm not sure how much this helps you.
> 
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/staticfiles/index.html
> 
> The phone may not have been helpful, have you tried using their email support yet?


Emailed them on "ask the expert" about 10 days ago. Yet to get a response. This show of indifference is poor support for the Pio owners. Audyssey support is quick and effective at all times. "Ask Audyssey" in prompt and efficient. Legendary!
Manu


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

8086 said:


> I'm not sure how much this helps you.
> 
> http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/staticfiles/index.html
> 
> The phone may not have been helpful, have you tried using their email support yet?


Tried this link. Doesn't open


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Manu -


What's your question?


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

The link works fine for me.


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

27dnast said:


> Manu -
> 
> What's your question?


Hmm. ..Well, that's a good question. The delay by Pio experts ( no reply till today ) made me forget it


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

venkataraman manu said:


> Hmm. ..Well, that's a good question. The delay by Pio experts ( no reply till today ) made me forget it


Folks, Greetings!
I need help from my fellow Shaksters. I have a Pio LX 86 for 4 months. Worked. Over the last few days it shut off while I am listening to music or watching movie. Thr iPhone iPad indicator on the front panel blinks. Once I switch on the amp it works only to shut off and the same routine?. I checked my rear speakers. No wires touching rear. All banana plugged. I have bi amped the front. 7.2 speakers is what I have. Help appreciated. I reset it too. Not resolved. Help please?


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

How long does it work before shutting down?
Does it sound normal all the time and just turn off or does the audio break up for a second or two before shutdown?
did you add anything to the system or move preposition anything including speakers?


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

chashint said:


> How long does it work before shutting down?
> Does it sound normal all the time and just turn off or does the audio break up for a second or two before shutdown?
> did you add anything to the system or move preposition anything including speakers?


No. No audio break. Just shuts off with"iPhone iPod iPad" indicator flashing. Once I switch it on it "power on " and works. Only to do it again. Tried reset. Failed. In India(where I bought it and use) 220-230V is the factory set voltage. I am trying to set it at 240V and try. My servo stabiliser shows 235-240V as I checked it yesterday. So reset it at the back panel. AV RECEIVER WORKING . Hope it solves it. Pio troubleshooting section in the manual puts this symptom as a power problem. So my off the cuff attempt!
Thanks Chashint


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Keep us posted.


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

chashint said:


> Keep us posted.


I will. HT folks are great. Someone will listen and help! Thanks for your concerns. AV RECEIVER IS WORKING OK. so far so good. Hope my solution sticks. Perhaps gives helping ideas to those who need?

Thanks.


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

venkataraman manu said:


> I will. HT folks are great. Someone will listen and help! Thanks for your concerns. AV RECEIVER IS WORKING OK. so far so good. Hope my solution sticks. Perhaps gives helping ideas to those who needdde0a Thanks.


We'll greetings and a happy New Year to my fellow Shaksters !
Been using my Pio sc lx 86 for nearly a year and yesterday, while watching a movie, the av receiver shut down with the MCACC indicator light flashing. It did not switch-on when I tried to. Only the MCACC indicator flashes. I had already had the problem of iPad(etc) indicator flashing a few times which recurred a few times but on these occasions I was able to power-on once again. This time, no way. Any help?! The manual says Power problem. Send for service. 
Thanks folks
Manu


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## listenloud83 (Oct 18, 2013)

Sounds like it is going into protection mode which can indicate an internal fault of the power supply, output transistor, or something as simple as speaker wires touching or a bad speaker. You can try a factory reset, which it sounds like you have done before. Keep in mind you will lose all your calibration data and all settings will be reset to factory defaults. There is also probably a button sequence for resetting protection mode, but I do not have that particular models service manual. I would also suggest checking all of your speaker wires for possible shorts or bad connections. If none are found, try disconnecting one speaker from the back of the unit at a time and see if the unit will power on. If it does, that is indicative of a bad wire or speaker.

If you are still under the warranty period, I do not recommend opening the unit to inspect internal components as this will likely void your warranty. Best of luck to you!


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

listenloud83 said:


> Sounds like it is going into protection mode which can indicate an internal fault of the power supply, output transistor, or something as simple as speaker wires touching or a bad speaker. You can try a factory reset, which it sounds like you have done before. Keep in mind you will lose all your calibration data and all settings will be reset to factory defaults. There is also probably a button sequence for resetting protection mode, but I do not have that particular models service manual. I would also suggest checking all of your speaker wires for possible shorts or bad connections. If none are found, try disconnecting one speaker from the back of the unit at a time and see if the unit will power on. If it does, that is indicative of a bad wire or speaker. If you are still under the warranty period, I do not recommend opening the unit to inspect internal components as this will likely void your warranty. Best of luck to you!


Hey Thanks for your suggestions. But it is given in the troubleshooting not attempt to switch on the av receiver! How can I reset it then? 
Manu


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## listenloud83 (Oct 18, 2013)

If you are concerned about causing further damage by attempting to power on again, then I would suggest consulting with an authorized repair shop. The steps I gave above were merely my common process for beginning to diagnose why a receiver is going into protect. Since you would have to disconnect all speakers anyway to take it to a repair shop, you could still attempt a power on with the speakers disconnected to eliminate them as "suspects".


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

listenloud83 said:


> If you are concerned about causing further damage by attempting to power on again, then I would suggest consulting with an authorized repair shop. The steps I gave above were merely my common process for beginning to diagnose why a receiver is going into protect. Since you would have to disconnect all speakers anyway to take it to a repair shop, you could still attempt a power on with the speakers disconnected to eliminate them as "suspects".


Hey thanks! I just did but no luck. My SVS M series are verified out. Planning to shift it to service outlet. 
Thanks
Manu


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## listenloud83 (Oct 18, 2013)

Bummer! Hopefully the repair shop can fix it quickly. If you get it fixed be sure to post back and let us know what they did. Cheers!


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## venkataraman manu (Dec 11, 2011)

listenloud83 said:


> Bummer! Hopefully the repair shop can fix it quickly. If you get it fixed be sure to post back and let us know what they did. Cheers!


Yep. Will do
Manu


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

HTS has the best instruction manuals in the business.

Way to go gents. :T


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## Jeff Hubbard (Jul 6, 2014)

I just upgraded from the VSX-1124 to the SC-85 Atmos receiver. Have had MCACC in the past and enjoyed it's results. I could not figure out how to use the Sub EQ feature on the new receiver - then found this out:

On the SC-85 if I save the results from memory 1 (Full auto - symmetry) and copy it to memory2 -then run auto MCACC and using the 'All Channel Adjust' and 'keep sp' - it EQ's Sub. Initial results were good on the sub side - but I'm afraid I'm not getting all I can from MCACC. Why doesn't the manual tell me this?!?!

I would love to hear from anyone who knows Pro MCACC inside and out. What else am I missing that Pioneer is not telling me???


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

Jeff Hubbard said:


> I just upgraded from the VSX-1124 to the SC-85 Atmos receiver. Have had MCACC in the past and enjoyed it's results. I could not figure out how to use the Sub EQ feature on the new receiver - then found this out:
> 
> On the SC-85 if I save the results from memory 1 (Full auto - symmetry) and copy it to memory2 -then run auto MCACC and using the 'All Channel Adjust' and 'keep sp' - it EQ's Sub. Initial results were good on the sub side - but I'm afraid I'm not getting all I can from MCACC. Why doesn't the manual tell me this?!?!
> 
> I would love to hear from anyone who knows Pro MCACC inside and out. What else am I missing that Pioneer is not telling me???


I will be reviewing the SC-89 shortly and plan to dive into the details of MCACC. Stay tuned.


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## Jeff Hubbard (Jul 6, 2014)

Looking forward to it Peter! I really try to learn about my equipment so I can extract the best performance from it. I read the manuals - search the forums - but the MCACC Pro manual is pretty weak. I would love to find an easy to understand guide to get the best performance. 

God bless engineers - but I understand 'layman' terms.


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