# Building the HTPC



## toecheese (May 3, 2006)

I'm blogging my mental machinations here: http://farzanegan.org/ht

I'm at the point that I've got it narrowed down to three choices:


Buy a Dell, rip the stuff out of it an stick it in a HTPC case
Build it myself
Buy that Linux HTPC barebones and stick in a processor

I am honestly not leaning toward any of them yet and could use some input.

Thanks!


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## Guest (Nov 26, 2006)

toecheese said:


> Buy a Dell, rip the stuff out of it an stick it in a HTPC case
> Build it myself
> Buy that Linux HTPC barebones and stick in a processor


From what I can see the Dell is BTX which could limit your case choices.


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## toecheese (May 3, 2006)

aeon said:


> From what I can see the Dell is BTX which could limit your case choices.


I think the BTX Dells are the Intel ones- rumor is that the AMD processors have normal ATX boards.

Good point though; that would be a deal breaker; I'll find out more.


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## khellandros66 (Jun 7, 2006)

Toecheese I would go with the following

Core 2 Duo w/ Zalman CNPS-7700 ALCU Cooler
HDMI HDCP PCI-E card w/ Zalman passive or near silent cooling
Auzentech Xplosion Soundcard
Norco Case with LCD Display
WD Raptor 75GB System drive
5 x 500GB WD SATA II Drives
DVD+/-RW Drive
Silverstone 450-600w ATX PSU with 120mm fan

Those would be on my short list along with a few other tidbits such as a Linux core OS and a beta of Vista for future upgrades etc.

~Bobby

~Bob


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## toecheese (May 3, 2006)

Thanks, Bob- core 2 duo's are the heat- but is it necessary for a HT? This is- at least to start- a playback only device- I won't be doing encoding.

Also, my projector is not HDMI, so component output is all I need.

It looks like what you've spec'd is a dream system- but it is more than I need for the short-term. I'll probably get a decent case and go cheap on internals for the time being.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi toecheese,

You are right in that you don't need a dream system, especially for playback only. I do very well with a mid-level Dell. I got the upgraded ATI card (IIRC, x600). Hooked up to a server with movies and music, I've never had a problem with it.

Good luck and have fun!


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## Bruce (Sep 14, 2006)

toecheese,

I agree with otto, bob's specs are way overkill for most htpc needs (and needlessly expensive). Especially 600 watt PSU, that's only needed when you want a gaming machine with SLI dual-video cards. 

Also you want an htpc to be quiet, bob's 5x500GB drive recommendation is not going to be quiet.

Even 1080p HD doesn't need much processor power, just an NVidia 7600GT video card that uses NVidia's Purevideo software. An AMD Anthlon 64 3700 is enough CPU power in most cases for 1080p HD and a Seasonic S12-330 or S12-380 are the quiet recommended PSUs with more than enough to power you through (an S12-430 is an option if you decide to load up with many disk drves-- not recommended).

If you want a quiet htpc in the same room as you, then limit the number of disk drives in it and implement a media server in another room to hold all the source files with lots of hard disks.

There are many places to get more info on htpc building specifics and "quiet" recommended equipment. htpcnews and SPCR forums come to mind as a couple of my longtime favorites.

For htpc cases I have a Silverstone LC-17b, a Silverstone LC-04b, and an Antec NSK2400 and like them all (LC-04 and NSK2400 are mATX mb only cases). Working to get my LC04 to netboot without a hardisk inside with Linux based MythTV.


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## khellandros66 (Jun 7, 2006)

:mooooh: 

Now I know I am condescending in my posts I do appoogize, but when I make recommendations based on a persons best interests and not how to save them a quick buck on cheap problematic hardware. I have probably killed more PC parts in the last 5 years them most people have ever owned PCs I do a ton of testing and tinkering pushing voltages up to the boiling point and stressing the hardware well beyond its rated abilities.

I merely look for as much overhead as possible and no 5x500GB HDDs wont be noisy, esp when mounted horizontally in a proper HTPC case and using rubber gromets when mounting them.

The Core 2 Duo will allow him to record HDTV material and playback simultaneously. Or more he can record something and play a PC game like HL2 or Doom 3 or perhaps Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter too me that is way cool that you can do that heavy of multitasking.

Yeah Bruce ever take a multimeter and test the efficiency of a PSU let alone a Seasonic. Most of what I have seen in my tests is conservative 65% efficiency, so a 380w PSU is really a 247w, now seeing that a PC with one of each the following...

CPU = 80w
Motherboard = 50w
Videocard = 75-100w
HDD = 15w each
CD/DVD = 15w each
Heatsink Fan = 15w
Case Fans (2 typically) = 10w each
Total = 270w avg consumption

What happens when you stress a PSU beyond its typical efficiency, it fails and causes HDDs to improperly shutdown which results it lost data and bad sectors. Or worse will short and fry expensive components.


~Bob


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

khellandros66 said:


> :mooooh:
> 
> Now I know I am condescending in my posts I do appoogize, but when I make recommendations based on a persons best interests and not how to save them a quick buck on cheap problematic hardware.


I don't think anyone recommended "cheap problematic hardware." Who did this?



> I have probably killed more PC parts in the last 5 years them most people have ever owned PCs


And this makes you some type of expert? 



> I do a ton of testing and tinkering pushing voltages up to the boiling point and stressing the hardware well beyond its rated abilities.


While it's fun to experiment, I would go out on a limb and assert that "most people don't do that."



> I merely look for as much overhead as possible


Not necessarily a bad thing...



> The Core 2 Duo will allow him to record HDTV material and playback simultaneously. Or more he can record something and play a PC game like HL2 or Doom 3 or perhaps Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter too me that is way cool that you can do that heavy of multitasking.


Did you read the link in the OP? He said he doesn't need that much horsepower, and will be pretty much be doing playback And I definitely didn't see anythig about Doom 3.



> Yeah Bruce ever take a multimeter and test the efficiency of a PSU let alone a Seasonic. Most of what I have seen in my tests is conservative 65% efficiency, so a 380w PSU is really a 247w, now seeing that a PC with one of each the following...


No comment.



> CPU = 80w
> Motherboard = 50w
> Videocard = 75-100w
> HDD = 15w each
> ...


Are those peak numbers?



> What happens when you stress a PSU beyond its typical efficiency,


Remember, "most of us" don't do that. We use our PCs within their normal limits. The OP seemed to want to run within those limits as well.



> it fails and causes HDDs to improperly shutdown which results it lost data and bad sectors. Or worse will short and fry expensive components.


Well, I suggest you not do that then.

Man.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2006)

khellandros66 said:


> Yeah Bruce ever take a multimeter and test the efficiency of a PSU let alone a Seasonic. Most of what I have seen in my tests is conservative 65% efficiency, so a 380w PSU is really a 247w, now seeing that a PC with one of each the following...


PSU power ratings are quoted on their output. E.g. a good 430W PSU is capable of outputting 430W DC if you managed to load up the rails correctly and will draw ~510-570W AC depending on how efficient it is. Its quite possible to find PSUs these days which have 80% efficiency at normal loads (~120-150W).

Unless you are running a 7950GX2/8800GTS/8800GTX/X1900XTX/SLI/Crossfire level system a good quality 400W PSU will do fine.

As for the system if its mainly for playback and you don't want to spend much (using prices from ZZF just because that's what you had on your site):

AMD Sempron Processor 3600+ Socket AM2 $95.50
Asus M2NPV-VM $92
Patriot Signature PSD21G533K 1GB Kit DDR2-533 $80
Pioneer DVR-111D $40
Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD3200KS 320GB $100
Antec NSK2400 w/ 380W PSU $90

Total $497

If you were going to spend some more money I'd get a separate video card (would allow you to go with a cheaper mobo such as the Foxconn K8M890M2MA-RS2H) as the onboard 6150 doesn't match say an X1600 or 7600GT for deinterlacing quality IMO, but you may be happy with it.

An aftermarket CPU heatsink may be required if you want it really quiet but the stock one isn't too bad if you set the motherboard to slow it down.


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## Bruce (Sep 14, 2006)

Bob, 

I contracted with numerous testing agencies for IEEE certification on many power supplies for large managed ethernet switches offered for sale in the US market in the last ten years, so I have a real good handle on PSU characteristics (just an FYI).

I also trust the testing methodologies at the silent PC review site SPCR website
which is where my recommendations for PC power supplies are echoed.

I never spec a highend system for someone else, when it's not required. Everyone has different perspectives and that's OK, especially for your own personal use.

By the way, in case you didn't know, the Seasonic S12-330 and S12-380 are 80% efficiency PSU designs.

--------------------------------------
otto,

Good questions and comments. Looking forward to the answers.

--------------------------------------
toecheese,

I see nothing wrong with aeon's recommended specs, except I might go for a slightly higher CPU like a Anthlon 64 3700, especially if you will be running custom screen resolution software like FFdshow. 

The most important part is the video card, and as I said above, an NVidia PCI-e 7600GT video card (or higher) with Purevideo software is critical for control of the following with High-Definition Content up to 1080p:

H.264 Decode Acceleration 
VC-1 Decode Acceleration 
MPEG-2 Decode Acceleration 
WMV9 Decode Acceleration 
High-Quality Scaling 
Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing 
Inverse Telecine 
Bad Edit Correction 

These are important for the video card (eliminate jerkiness), because they lower the the need for a highend CPU that would need to do some of this in software if the video card didn't do it in hardware. The NVidia 6150 onboard video of aeon's mb recommendation also runs Purevideo software with most of the same specs, but lacks the important "Spatial-Temporal De-Interlacing, Inverse Telecine, and Bad Edit Correction" for HD content.

A video card with lot's of capability like the above + an additional tuner card (HD and/or SD), will allow you to record (PVR functionality) and watch multiple video streams without buying a really highend processor (doesn't require a dual-core CPU) although the AMD X2 cpus were fairly inexpensive (I bought an X2 3800 for $143 a few months ago).

Also, 2GB of RAM is probably the max you will need and I expect 1GB will do you very well with no problems for an HTPC (buy either in dual stick kits 2*512MB or 2*1GB for dual-channel use). Games are known to work better or require 2GB+ RAM, but none of the HTPC applications do.


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## Guest (Dec 3, 2006)

Bruce said:


> I see nothing wrong with aeon's recommended specs, except I might go for a slightly higher CPU like a Anthlon 64 3700, especially if you will be running custom screen resolution software like FFdshow.


Yeah it was meant to be an X2 3600+, not a sempron but it would appear ZZF don't sell them. The 65W X2 3800+ is only $150 however and well worth the extra in my view. Or if the budget doesn't stretch the Athlon 3500+ is $90 and would be a better buy than the sempron.


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## Danny (May 3, 2006)

What types of video will you be decoding? I would personally prefer to pay an extra $30-40 and get a bigger PSU because as a power supply nears its limits the voltages become more unstable and if you're planning to keep it for more than a year get bigger because the caps in the PSU will lose some of their potential.


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## Bruce (Sep 14, 2006)

Danny,
Bigger PSU means more heat and more noise, both unwanted in an htpc in the room with you. It has been shown over and over again that 500-600 watt PSUs are not needed unless you are doing SLI dual video card systems, which this user is not.

Here is a very illumninating quote from SPCR reviews on PSUs:

"HOW MUCH POWER IS ENOUGH?
. . . .
Our own experience indicates that despite all the new power hungry components such as >75W video cards and >120W CPUs, it is still rare to find a desktop computer than draws much more than 200W DC under typical demanding applications. Around 300W DC looks to be about the highest power draw from a single CPU full-bore high end system at this time (Feb 2005). Although some headroom is always good to have, there seems little question that consumers are being persuaded to pay for power capacity that is never used. One of the nasty side effects is the fan noise of the high airflow required to keep the PSU adequately cooled when delivering maximum power. High speed fans generally make more noise than slower ones even when they are slowed by undervolting."

Don't forget, that in late 2006 CPUs, especially core 2 duo, are being marketed and introduced as less power hungry, not more.


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## Danny (May 3, 2006)

Found a couple of fanless power supplies.

Antec 500Watt - http://www.shopbot.com.au/p-13382-226733.html

Thermaltake 350Watt - http://www.mittoni.com.au/thermaltake-350w-fanless-power-supply-psu-p-1814.html


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## toecheese (May 3, 2006)

This was such a good thread- and the funny thing is I've been hemming and hawing (I'm from North Carolina) about what to get and have decided on these very recommendations.

I've decided to go 

AMD X2 3800 - the energy efficient version.
Asus N2MPV-VM- which comes bundled with component-out (analog projector)

And almost *today* bought the Antec NSK2400 case- but ZZF was out of stock! 

I think just one stick of 1G ram will be enough for now- but what speed to get? I don't know squat about DDR2 RAM- the speeds are confusing. 

Also- I have extra IDE drives sitting around- is SATA a good thing?

Thanks!


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2007)

toecheese said:


> I think just one stick of 1G ram will be enough for now- but what speed to get? I don't know squat about DDR2 RAM- the speeds are confusing.


Have a look at the benchmarks here - http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/memory/display/core2duo-memory-guide.html

In general 533 will do in the majority of cases. If 667 is only a few bucks more then you may as well go with it.



> Also- I have extra IDE drives sitting around- is SATA a good thing?
> 
> Thanks!


The main reason SATA is good IMO is the smaller cables  It's not really any faster than IDE and there's no point in replacing perfectly good IDE drives with SATA. However if you are buying any new drives then I'd definitely go with SATA (for HDD anyway, SATA DVD drives were still rather expensive last time I checked).


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

> Also- I have extra IDE drives sitting around- is SATA a good thing?


Aeon's right. If you have IDE drives that are decent quality and whose capacities suit your needs, keep 'em. When buying new drives, go SATA. The cable is nicer (though I've found it to be more fragile), installation is way more straigthforward (no master/slave jumpers), it's the way of the future (for now) and there is no shared bus (connect a 133 MBps IDE drive and a CD-ROM to the same bus in IDE and you throttle the HDD to the speed of the ROM). 

That said, I have a mix of IDE and SATA drives in my HTPC (edit: actually, it's my server, not my HTPC) with no troubles whatsoever.


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## toecheese (May 3, 2006)

Thanks for the news about SATA- so same drives, new interface, I guess.

re: DDR2. What is 533 memory called? PC2-8500? The mobo specs say 800,667,533 are supported. 

I'm trying to find memory prices on http://dealram.com and they list it as 'PC2-xxxx' numbers.


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2007)

1066=8500
800=6400
667=5300
533=4200


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2007)

TC -- a word of advice on RAM, having built DAW computers for myself, and using them professionally. Don't buy cheap RAM. Crucial (or Micron, which is the same company), Corsair and similar branded RAM is worth spending the money on in a high performance system, because cheap RAM is one of the things that can be likely to fail. I've had this happen on me a few times (including in the middle of a recording session!!! :wits-end with cheap RAM (even Kingston Value RAM) in my computer

Also, if you are wanting a VERY quiet case system, there is a new case designed by a company out of the UK called PaQ, which is one of the quietest cases you'll find in the "reasonable" price range -- higher than Antec and others, but much cheaper than the Zalman heatsink cases. This case was originally designed for DAWs in recording studios. Very interesting design, actually -- the cooling fans are in the middle of the case, with the whole inside of the case lined with acoustically absorbent foam, and the hard drives, etc. are also pressed into slots in the acoustic foam (along with a heat spreader to help cooling), so the vibration of the hard drives (and DVD/CD drives, etc.) doesn't transfer through to the case. I'm sure I can dig up some better pics than they have on their site. If I can find some, I'll try to post them if I can.

I'm actually just in the process of finding out a price to get one or two sent here for myself. I'll keep you posted if you are interested.

Also, I can highly recommend the Zalman products for quiet/silent CPU, graphics card and other heat sinks, power supplies, etc.


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## Guest (Jan 23, 2007)

If you are interested in further exploring options for silencing your HTPC, www.quietpc.com is a great place to look. They've got a lot of great quiet cooling products, etc., their prices are quite reasonable, and I've found them very good people to work with.

I'll also offer you another link that might be of use to you: 

http://www.pricewatch.com/ 

Once you decide on the particular components you want for your box, go look there to find out where to get it for the best price. That site has saved me some notable buckage over some time! :T

Here's the link for PaQ cases: http://www.paq.ltd.uk/shop/index.php

They are just getting up and running with distribution of these new cases, so the site isn't complete. But I am familiar with the guy who runs the company (through industry contacts), and he has been building DAWs professionally for a long time, with a very solid reputation.

Sorry about the throwaway posts, but I thought some of those resources might be helpful to you, TC, before you get too far into buying parts, etc.


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## toecheese (May 3, 2006)

Thanks- I'll look at those. I've decided on the NSK2400 as a case- silentpcreview.com recommended it as they were actually called in to help design it.


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