# Dual PB12 or Ultra



## Andoskyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I definitely need another or a better subwoofer for my basement home theater. I am currently trying to fill 3,800 cubic feet with a single PB12-NSD. It sounds good, but definitely lacking headroom. It will sound great in one seat but really lacking in another.

I asked SVS what they thought about getting another PB12 pr upgrading to another. They said output from 20hz and above would be pretty similar between the two and the Ultra would have the edge below 20. I know the Ultra is an unbelievable sub, but I feel for the size of the room, the dual PB12 setup would move a lot more air. It's a few hundred dollars cheaper for the dials, but would entertain selling the current sub in order to upgrade to the ultra if that is the preferred route.

Anyway...wanted to get some opinions on this before I make a move. I have some time to think about it, SVS isn't releasing the new PB12 for another few months.

Thank you in advance.


Oh, and I've done quite a bit of treatment in my room to ensure I need a second sub. 14 total panels, 8 of those being 4" thick "bass traps"


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

Since you already have the PB12 then I would add another PB12.... but:

If you get a PBU and can sell the PB12 "to get another PBU" then you would benefit from having dual PBU's and be able to get lower extension and have more headroom.

Either way having duals will really help with widening the sweet spot. I have dual PBU's and I am very satisfied with what they do. 

Something else to think about.....I'm not sure what AVR you have, but you can save a little $$ getting the PB12 due to being cheaper and "a discount being a return customer", and use some of the saved cash and get an ASEQ which will really help with duals subs that are not co-located. 




Due to my response being clear as mud you are probably even more confused now then you were when you made your post....onder:


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## Andoskyy (Feb 22, 2010)

hah, no, your reply made sense, thank you. Definitely gives me more to think about.

as far as the ASEQ, I dont know too much about it...and will certainly read up on it. The dual subs will be co-located though. I'd rather have the increased headroom, and i'm sure it'll expand my sweet spot enough.

how big is your room where you have the dual PBU's?

thank you again for your reply.


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

I had them in a room that was roughly 21x14x8 that was open to two hallways and a kitchen/dining room. They are now currently in a 25'9" x 12 x 7'8" basement, however I have not got everything up an running as of yet.....however I did run my ASEQ/AVR MultEQ and then followed up with REW in the same locations as I measured the Audy and came out with a fairly flat response considering the basement is unfinished and everything is tile or concrete.

I'm looking at investing a small fortune here in the near future in GIK to help solve this problem.:spend::T


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

Andoskyy said:


> . . . The *dual subs will be co-located *though. I'd rather have the increased headroom, and i'm *sure it'll expand my sweet spot *enough.


Andoskyy,

I see a bit of a dilemma between the co-located plan above and your initial problem description which also involves bass uniformity around the room, quoted below; 



Andoskyy said:


> It sounds good, but definitely *lacking headroom*. It will *sound great in one seat but really lacking in another*.



The headroom portion lends toward getting an Ultra, but the lack of uniformity across the seats portion lends toward dual 12's (if not-collocated!). 

I doubt you will be able to improve both problems with a co-located solution using either sub model; headroom improvement - yes, uniformity improvement - no.

The previous suggestion of dual Ultras, if not co-located, is the track I would expect to provide the best results, assuming the cost is not prohibitive.

XEagleDriver


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## Andoskyy (Feb 22, 2010)

Thanks again.

I see the contradiction in my statement. But are you saying that there will be no improvement at all in uniformity if they are co located?

With all this input, i'm definitely leaning towards the Ultra. Might throw the PB12 up on Craigslist or the forums here to see what I can get. Dual Ultras would be great, and most likely in my future. Though I have some more important things to spend my $$ on than dual ultras....stupid priorities!


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

That is a big room, 2 ultras will be the way to go. When you figure that out with 2 PB 12's you'll be starting all over with the upgrade bug :scratch:. Buy one now & get the improvement, add on another one later & finish the job. If finishing is ever possible :sn:!


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

WOW...I missed the size of your room. I concure with XED and Tonto.

Due to room size, get the PBU now and then get another.

Non co-located subs will give you a larger "sweet spot", for me it went from just the center cushion of the couch with one PBU to the whole couch on the back wall and my loveseat on left wall from the couch w/duals. The subs were only about 6' apart and at that distance I was getting around 4-5db increase of out put when calibrated both to 75db's.....see pic.


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## Andoskyy (Feb 22, 2010)

anyone want to buy a PB12 - NSD?? 

Thanks again...I think the choice is obvious.

what would be a reasonable asking price locally? $600? If i remember correctly, it was $700 new and $75 for shipping I think?


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## Andoskyy (Feb 22, 2010)

I'm now considering a DIY project because I came across a JL 12W7 for practically nothing.

I think I can get away with a ~$600 build including amp and materials. With the help of a lot of forum members here and WinISD, it looks like I can outperform the PB-13 Ultra with about 110-115db at 20hz.

Thank you for all your input and I'm sure me and an Ultra will cross paths someday.


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