# New complete DIY speaker setup (Mainly from creativesound.ca)



## Wiggle (Sep 21, 2013)

I had posted some of these over in the Creative Sound forum but wanted to compile all my builds into one thread to share. I've gone ahead and built up a new DIY 5.1 consisting mainly of the V-series from Creativesound. 
Main L/R : V2 2-way MTM ML-TL 
Center Channel: V2 2-way MTM
SL/SR: V1 2-way ported
Subwoofer: 15" sealed cube /w Shiva driver (plan to upgrade to SDX12 when money permits)

V1 - Complete

All work inside done:









Ready for finishing:


















Painting:


















Done:









V2 ML-TL - Complete

Cabinet in progress:








































































V2 Center Channel - In Progress




























Sealed Shiva - In Progress


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Nice work.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Very nice build thread Wiggle! I bet that sub sounds great while you are gaming. How much more till the center is finished? How do they sound to you?


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## Wiggle (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback &#55357;&#56842; Everything sounds great so far and I know the front soundstage will get even stronger once I get a proper center channel. I'm impressed with the sound from the relatively small 4.5 inch midwoofers. The towers sound especially great with music and extend deep enough I am quite happy Without a sub in that application. I have them crossed over at 50 Hz right now after having it at 80 Hz. The sub has added just that bit of extra support for music and adds some real weight and authority to movies and games. 

Hope to wrap up the center channel once I get a free weekend in September &#55357;&#56842;


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Nice work, wiggle. Cabinets look well built and well braced. I'm surprised those little guys play so low, I guess the TL design really works! Let us know how it all sounds with the centre completed.


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## Wiggle (Sep 21, 2013)

Thanks for the compliments. I'm still pretty fresh to speaker building but getting the hang of the building process. I'm impressed with how solid and dead the enclosures came out.

Much of the extension is certainly the TL design but additionally I think the drivers are just great performers. Even the smaller ported V1s extend just as well as most of the 6.5" two-ways I've heard with only a 4.5" driver. For a small listening area especially, the smaller drivers do not seem to a limitation or compromise.

The larger V2 ML-TL extends deeper by at least 20 Hz but the ported V1 seems to punch a little harder in the upper bass. Both are impressive in bass performance vs size.

I hope to wrap up the center channel soon as well. The package should arrive soon and then I should be able to wrap it up in an afternoon since I have the cabinet mostly built already. The only thing I am struggling with right now is how to mount the center channel. I am thinking I may have to set the TV on top of center channel but trying to determine what's the best way to do that while not increasing the TVs height more than necessary.


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## Wiggle (Sep 21, 2013)

Added one more speaker. V2 MTM center channel. I made a custom enclosure slightly narrower but same volume as stock design. I realize this may have some slight sonic impact but for me, low profile was very important and the timbre matching sounds quite good to me. Especially after EQ'ing as well. It is ported in the rear with a cylindrical port. Still needs to be painted but I can already tell it will sound great. We watched Mad Max on the weekend and I've been testing some music in Pro Logic II on it and enjoy the sound alot. 

I do plan to change the mounting though, I will remove it from under the TV and instead build a small stand that can mount behind the television and raise the speaker just above the the bezel of the TV. This will make the TV angle lower again (which I prefer) and bring the acoustic center height of the speaker closer to the main L/R.










Edit:
Also I found an unexpected use for the center channel, podcasts. Playing podcasts in PLII mode results in the vocals coming entirely from the center channel for most of my podcasts. It makes for a very cohesive and solid sound. The off-axis response seems fine too which surprised me because I've heard can be an issue for horizontal MTM due to the comb filter effect.


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## Wiggle (Sep 21, 2013)

Finally painted the CC and also built a stand. I built the stand to sit on my entertainment center behind the television. This allows it to sit just above the top of the television. It is also suitable to for floor mount if I ever choose to wall mount my TV and move my gear to a separate rack. The base is a little narrower than I would've liked but still seems quite stable especially with some weight at the bottom of the tube.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Great job, congrats and enjoy.....:T


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## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

Wiggle said:


> ...I made a custom enclosure slightly narrower but same volume as stock design... It is ported in the rear with a cylindrical port. ...The off-axis response seems fine too which surprised me because I've heard can be an issue for horizontal MTM due to the comb filter effect.


Narrow when oriented sideways is height oriented vertically, and height is free (within reason). I did the same thing with my CC. 

Very few people understand comb filtering. It's ubiquitous, and not the issue with the toppled MTM. 

Your issue is wave interference. It's nicely discussed and demonstrated here.
http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/vertical-vs-horizontal-speaker-designs

The idea is that when you sit on-axis, sound from the two mid travels the same distance, so sound arrives in-phase and the two drivers add together. As you move off-axis, the distance from one driver gets longer, the other shorter. When that difference in distance is a half wavelength, the sounds are out of phase and cancel. You get nothing at that frequency and off-axis position. 

Here's what it looks like. 
http://zaphaudio.com/BAMTM-polar-1000-2000-100step-red-blue.gif

The legend is in the title; 1KHz to 2KHz in 0.1KHz steps from red to blue. Note that at ~40 degrees, there's a deep null. When vertical, that null is aimed at floor and ceiling. When sideways, it's aimed at the extreme left and right seat. If you sit in the center 20 degrees, you may never notice. 

Note that this can be mitigated by:
- close M-M spacing, so there's less distance difference, and 
- a low crossover frequency, so the woofers are no longer producing frequencies that will interfere. 
- use of a 3-way, with a vertical TM section. 

All of those are different speaker designs, and that's the rub; nothing you can do to improve but start over, or live with that you've got. I tried 5 CCs before I got one that sounded right. Be happy with yours as it sounds like you're getting what you wanted (podcasts would show any dialog intelligibility issues). 

Have fun,
Frank


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## Wiggle (Sep 21, 2013)

Frank,
Thanks for the explanation, quite enlightening  I did know the horizontal MTM is a restricted design and it is good to know the details on why.

I did a "walk-by" test from about 35 degrees on either side of the speaker and had no noticeable shifting in dialogue timbre or intelligibility in my room with this speaker. Easily wide enough to hit all listening areas in my room. The speaker drivers are fairly small and placed pretty close (only about 8" center to center max) so perhaps this helps the coherance. 

The only way I was able to notice an effect was cutting extreme angles well outside normal listening range.


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