# Sound power/authority out of 802's



## ccvang1 (May 19, 2009)

Just to start I would like to give a quick overview. I mainly listen to stereo music and my setup is based on that. I use B&W 802D's. Amplification is a Rotel RMB1095 5x200w that I use 2 channels each side. (Bi-amp). 1 channel is unused. For a prosessor/preamp I use a Yamaha RX-V3900. As sourch for music I use a Marantz SA-15S2 cd player. No surrounds are connected as a result of to little area.

I would like to know if someone could give me some advice on why I do not seem to get sound power out of my B&W802D's the way they suppose to do. First of all, my room is small, very small. 11L*9W*8H. I previousely had them in another house with a roomsize 17L*14W*9H (All in ft) and it were not much better. Both of these rooms are just normal wooden walls as you would find in lots of Ausie homes. In SA my setup was in a brick house with sealed concrete walls and it was much better. (the size was +- the same as the bigger of the 2 previously mentioned). Both of the rooms have nice thick carpets in it. I know that this room sizes is way to small and a waste for the 802's, but it will just have to do for now. (rented house). I did get 1 x audio foam (eggsholder type) with a size of 1mx1m against each of the side walls 30 cm ahead of the speakers. This worked quite well with softning out the sound and taking some of the sharpness away. The one thing is that I do not get is a lot of good bass. (It sound shallow)The overall sound is very good with a good soundstage. (only as the tiny room allows for). Will the difference in house construction materials make such a diffirence. (I had more than enough good bass in the concrete house) and sound were more balanced.

As for the Amplification, I know that the Yamaha and Rotel is not in the leage of the 802's and the Marantz. I would ,when my wallet allow IT, get a stereo preamp as well as a good solid state poweramp. It will also be done at seperate intervals to allow me to save for the goods. What I would like to know is which of the Rotel or Yamaha is the weakest link and which should I be looking at to replace first? 

I will appreciate suggestions on this.

Thanks,

Coert


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

*Re: Sound power/authoroty out of 802's*

I wouldn't worry about the Yamaha or the Rotel, they are plenty fine for the application despite what you may hear from "audiophiles". What you want from your electronics is a flat FR and plenty of clean power, and either of those pieces of equipment is more than up to the task. Honestly, if I were you, I'd sell the Rotel and just let the Yamaha provide the amplification as well. It can do 190 watts x 2 at only 0.1% distortion.

All that said, I would look to the settings you are using in the Yamaha, the way in which you are bi-amping your speakers, and where your seat is located in the room as the potential culprits. 

First try standing somewhere else in the room and see if you notice more bass. If not, check your settings in the Yamaha to make sure you have no subwoofer set and that the mains are LARGE. Lastly, how are you bi-amping your speakers? Are you using a Y splitter from the pre out of the Yamaha into two inputs of the Rotel and then just feeding that into the upper and lower inputs of the speaker? Try using a single connection and just one set of binding posts on the speaker with jumper cables to see if that helps.


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## Mika75 (Feb 5, 2009)

*Re: Sound power/authoroty out of 802's*

Welcome to the forums Coert !

I'm glad that u brought this up as the sound of ur current listening room is very much like my own, it's not the size that is the issue, its the wooden walls/floors. Solid brick and Concrete like u had previously doesn't allow the bass to be sucked out.
I bet if u place ur speakers hard against the wall u will get that bass boost, but definition and soundstage will suffer terribly..
It wont matter what amplification u throw at those speakers as Steve has said, all u can do is either equalize ur mains, or add separate bass enclosures. (I've already done EQ, now looking to add subs)

..and I'll be watching for any good advice closely :cunning:


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## ccvang1 (May 19, 2009)

*Re: Sound power/authoroty out of 802's*

Hopefully I will have a better room layout soon. The setup in the corners help for the bass but not with the rest. I do have a sub I could add, but the room is so small, there is just no space. After listening to some music tonight, I also feel that there is to much high end. Will maybe try some more heavy curtains to see if it will help.


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## ccvang1 (May 19, 2009)

*Re: Sound power/authoroty out of 802's*

Steve,

I am using a y-splitter from the Yamaha's pre outs into the Rotel. As it have 5 channels. I use 2 channels/side, running a seperate wire from the rotel to the sub and tweeter input of the speakers. This means that I put 200W x 2 into a speaker. The amp is setup with no sub and with fronts set to large. I will put some more curtains in the room to see if it would help, or else i would have to put the sub in.


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## Mika75 (Feb 5, 2009)

> where your seat is located in the room?


so how far from the back wall do u sit ?


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## ccvang1 (May 19, 2009)

Because of the tiny room size, I sit against the back wall. I tried to sit closer, but not to much difference. When I am on the outside of the room the sound seem to flow effortlessly through the wooden walls. I will make sure that I have at least concrete walls in my next setup, but I just have to try to get the best of my current situation.:sweat:


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## Mika75 (Feb 5, 2009)

Sitting against the back wall should give u plenty of boost! (does for me) 

I suggest using ur sub just to fill in the bottom around 40hz, it should only be noticeable when u turn it off if u get what i mean..

After this if the bass is sounding slow/detached it could be a phase issue with the sub...hopefully it can be adjusted on the one u have ?


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## BrianAbington (Mar 19, 2008)

Did you hear them demoed with a sub at the retailer?

The B&W retailer local to me always uses a velodyne or JL sub with their 800 series demos. 

It always blends so smoothly that most people asume its just the speakers puting out that much lowend.

The B&W's do have low end but they won't flap your clothing at 10ft. 

I honestly would check your settings on your reciver. I have a yamaha that I use for my klipsches, when I replaced my old shelf system speakers with these I noticed that the bass was almost non exsistent. I went into the settings and found that I had the speakers set to small, and cut off the bass at 125hz.

So I set them to large and dropped it down to 25hz and let the internal crossovers do the work...and they came to life!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I have listened to the 802's and they are very capable of playing down to 35Hz without much loss. I do wonder if your speakers need to be pulled out from the wall farther. How far out are they sitting right now? and how close to the cornners are they sitting.


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## ccvang1 (May 19, 2009)

I did hear the speakers at my old (brick and bigger room) house and at the dealer and they were definately in another class compared to what I hear at present. I also made sure about the amp settings. Mains are set to large with no sub selected, so fronts will receive full signal. I did however move the speakers around and found the best sound to be slightly further forward and away from the side wall. I also put in 4 acoustic panels (2 at back and 1 each side of fronts). This helped to calm the top end down and give balance the overall sound. The bass quality is definately better but still not what it should be, but surely acceptable for the short term. Thanks for all your interest. It is always nice to play around with the sound stuff.


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## Glenee (Aug 18, 2009)

In that small of a room some room treatments may be in Order.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If you are going to stick to no surrounds, I would actually recommend selling your Rotel. I would recommend either a Parasound HCA-3500 or a Aragon 8008BB. The HCA-3500 can be found for around a grand and honestly has much more drive than your Rotel. In fact, the HCA-3500 is the basis for the Stereophile Class A Halo JC-1 Monoblocks.
Here are the specs for the HCA-3500.

Independent power supplies for each channel for true dual-monaural operation
Massive encapsulated 1.4 kVA toroid power transformer for each channel
97,600 uF power supply capacitance for each channel
Multiple polystyrene film bypass capacitors in power supply
Direct coupled design uses no inductors or capacitors in the signal path
DC servo direct-coupled audio circuits with 0.5 Hz rolloff
Output transistors direct-coupled to speakers without LRC networks
Cascode Class A input stages with matched J-FET pairs
Hand-picked complementary MOSFET transistors in high voltage driver stage
High-bias Class A/AB operation provides 15 Watts of pure Class A operation
8 complementary pairs of 15 ampere 60 MHz output transistors per channel
High-quality Neutrik XLR jacks for balanced inputs
Two sets of gold-plated metal structure RCA input jacks for balanced operation
Two sets of gold-plated 5-way binding posts facilitates bi-wiring
Multiple protection circuits, temperature sensors and silver-cadmium relay protectio
Glass epoxy circuit boards, double-sided for precision
Two hand-made audiophile-grade AC power cords-separate for each channel

Your Rotel has dual 1.2 kVA toroidal transformers and 120,000u Capacitance for all 5 channels. Whereas the Parasound has 195,200u of total Capacitance for 2 channels. Long story short, the 2 channel HCA-3500 has better power reserves than your 5 channel Rotel.

Considering how well Rotel's sell on Audiogon, you should be able to do this for next to nothing. The Aragon 8008BB has very close reserves to the 3500, but not quite. Only the BB version of the 8008 has this much power.
Cheers,
JJ


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## wes (Aug 19, 2009)

Get Emotiva XP-1


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