# What can I do with this small room?



## chykal (Mar 13, 2010)

I am building a small family room in my basement and would to get a few opinions on what I can reasonably do with it. The room is 12' 4" by 11' 2 " and the ceiling height will be about 6' 9" after I put in the drop ceiling.

So far I have framed it with 2x4's, put in the electrical (2 15 amp circuits), raised the plumbing and ductwork to maximize the ceiling height, insulated the walls with R13 fiberglass batts and have started the drywall with 5/8" sheets.

My first question. With a viewing distance of about 10' give or take a couple inches, what is the maximum screen size I can comfortably use? I am looking at an Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8100 if it makes sense to go projection for the larger screen size or if I can not fully utilize the larger screen size then I may just go with a large plazma screen.
Thanks.


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

That's an ok distance to use a projector. I wouldn't recommend going much larger than a 90" projection screen however.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Is there no possibility of making the room longer? 11x12 is too close to a box and is very poor for sound. Like Toby said your going to be limited to no larger than a 92" screen and even that will be a bit large given your seating will be less than 8' from the screen as you want your seats to be at least 3' from the back wall.


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## chykal (Mar 13, 2010)

I am up against concrete on 2 walls, laundry and furnace on the other 2 so no opportunity for a bigger room. I could only go a bit more narrow to make it less boxy. Would that be worth it? If so how much would make a difference? Are there other options to make it more acoustically sound? Also why 3 feet from the back wall?


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

chykal said:


> I am up against concrete on 2 walls, laundry and furnace on the other 2 so no opportunity for a bigger room. I could only go a bit more narrow to make it less boxy. Would that be worth it? If so how much would make a difference? Are there other options to make it more acoustically sound? Also why 3 feet from the back wall?


If this room is dedicated to your home theater you could consider adding acoustic paneling and bass traps to the walls to limit the sound reflection. You could buy these for a ton of $ online or you could build your own using a wooden frame, insulation and wrapping it in fabric. There are a plenty of online tutorials on how to do this. I'm not brave enough to ask my wife to add these to my living room yet.


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## chadnliz (Feb 12, 2010)

I would go 84in and get a reciever with room correction to help as much as possible on top or traps if budget allows, no need to worry about more than 5.1 in there so you can save some cash there too!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The reason you dont want the seats directly against the back wall is that sound reflects off the wall and really creates problems when your head is right there. It also tends to be very boomy if your right up against a wall.
You would need to treat the wall with acoustic panels quite extensively in order to minimize it.


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## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> The reason you dont want the seats directly against the back wall is that sound reflects off the wall and really creates problems when your head is right there. It also tends to be very boomy if your right up against a wall.
> You would need to treat the wall with acoustic panels quite extensively in order to minimize it.


Acoustic panels will not help in this instance because it will take a huge amount(resulting in loss of enternal space in the room) to reduce the amount of energy at this position. It is better to move the listening position than to tackle that problem with room treatments. It would be costly, take up a lot of room, and there is no guarantee it will actually do the job.


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## chykal (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks for the info. Do you agree with the 3 feet from the back wall suggestion?


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## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

chykal said:


> Thanks for the info. Do you agree with the 3 feet from the back wall suggestion?


Three feet from the back wall will help, but five feet is probably better. I would add that three feet might be okay if you do not locate the subs in the corners. If you put your head close to a wall, and the subs in any corner, boomy(is that a word:blink sound will be the result. 

I would also add that I would not put a projection system in a room that small. You are going to end up a little close unless you reduce the screen size. You might be better off with a 55-60" plasma or LCD display which usually give a better result in small rooms than a projector. 

Another recommendation I have is to scale your speakers to the room size. In a small room, smaller speakers are better because it allow them to be placed a little further away from the side and front walls than larger speakers. Also room treatments are necessary, but cannot be overdone. In my small room, I chose bass traps to reduce some of the LF energy in the room, and black out curtains to reduce the high frequency energy and control the ambient light in the room. Each side wall had a identical curtain placed in the identical place, and the front wall had a curtain over the window to block light from a window, and to reduce high frequency reflections in the room. What you don't want is a over damped small room.


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## chykal (Mar 13, 2010)

My back wall is only 12' from the front wall 5' won't do. The viewing distance would be some what less than 7'. 3' is ok though. Small speakers is what I have in the Bose double cubes. I was going to 3 up front I plan to hang on the wall which is contrary to your recommendations. The sub is planned to go in the front left corner but I can move it to the right about 3' to 4' so that works.

I am concerned with your recommendation of a 55" to 60" tv instead of a projector. I just bought $200 worth of long cables to make my connections from back to front most of which I do not need if I go with a TV. chadnliz recommended 84" which would be great. Can someone tell me if the 84" projection option is really a bad idea?

I haven't thought too much about room treatments except to look at a few DIY projects.

Thanks for all the help everyone but this is getting very confusing.


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## Sir Terrence (Jun 8, 2006)

chykal said:


> My back wall is only 12' from the front wall 5' won't do. The viewing distance would be some what less than 7'. 3' is ok though. Small speakers is what I have in the Bose double cubes. I was going to 3 up front I plan to hang on the wall which is contrary to your recommendations. The sub is planned to go in the front left corner but I can move it to the right about 3' to 4' so that works.


As long as you keep the sub out of the corner, and your head away from the walls, you will be fine.



> I am concerned with your recommendation of a 55" to 60" tv instead of a projector. I just bought $200 worth of long cables to make my connections from back to front most of which I do not need if I go with a TV. chadnliz recommended 84" which would be great. Can someone tell me if the 84" projection option is really a bad idea?


I am going to give you my opinion, chadnliz can give his, and you decide what is best for you. IMO, 84" while impressive, will be too large for that size room. I will tell you why I think so. I have two dedicated theaters in one of my houses. One pretty large one, the other far smaller. The small one is 12x15x9. I have a 55" Sony Bravia PRO in that room, and from where I sit, my viewing distance 7ft. From that distance, I meet THX maximum standard of 36 degree viewing angle. A 60" set would provide a 39 degree viewing angle, just above the THX recommendation. 


An 84" screen would have a 53 degree viewing angle which far exceeds the THX maximum viewing angle of 36". In other words, that screen size would be too big. 



> I haven't thought too much about room treatments except to look at a few DIY projects.


In small rooms, treatments are your friend...believe me. Not too much, but at least covering the first reflections is very important. Make sure if you hang your speakers, they do not cause the wall to resonate. That will muddy the sound.



> Thanks for all the help everyone but this is getting very confusing.


Take your time, think your project through and ask as many questions as you can. Being in a hurry will always cause you to do things that are either unnecessary, or not thorough enough.


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## chykal (Mar 13, 2010)

Thank you Sir Terrence for explaining your thought process so well for me. As a result I have looked up a THX calculator and formed my own opinion based on my planned viewing distance.

I finally feel comfortable with my decision. I also called a local HT shop that sells the Epson 8100 and can demo it at my room specs including placement of the projector, seating distance and screen size. The wife and I are going Wednesday so I should have a better feel for this after that.

Once again my sincere thanks to all of you.

Bob


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

84" isn't that big for 7 feet. I view a screen size of about that much at around 7 or 8 feet. You will be fine. Besides the minimum throw of a projector is lower than that anyway. 

I've read that perceptual research doesn't support the use of 1st order reflection panels. Which raises questions about it's usefulness. Many speakers are designed to operate in untreated rooms. A good designer will always voice his speakers for it's standard setting.

I suggest you put the speakers in your place and see if they sound good enough for you. Then if they don't GIK Acoustics can make some decent looking panels and tri-traps using photos.


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## JRace (Aug 24, 2006)

That projector will do 80" at 10' which will look good at 7-8' seating distance. Mount the cubes at the same height just below the screen for a more seamless presentation. Make sure the sub is located up front as the high xover point makes it very easy to locate. 
While you are at it, make sure you budget for some new speakers. Once you get used to the big-screen you will want big-sound to match.
:yikes:


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