# Doing it right, or at least trying. New Movie Room Build.



## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Hello,

I am looking at building a home theater room and want to put in a Projector. It was something that I was going to worry about closer towards the end. But from reading this forum it appears that way of thinking if completely backwards. So I am asking for all of your expert help and support.

What I have learned is, on the plan below the raised step for the chairs is in the wrong place. I know i need to move it two or 3 feet forward off the back wall for best sound. The Plans say its a 8 foot ceiling, I really think that we are going to build 9 foot ceilings in the basement. 

This will put the first row of seats about 10 feet away from the front screen, The screen will be about 10' - 11' wide and approximate 8 feet high. I would like to run the projector at 1080 HD. My dream is to pair this with the Onkyo TX-NR3007 Receiver and a 7.2 or 9.2 speaker system.










I really don't need the best projector, but would like the best for Value and Price point, the 'sweet spot' What would you all suggest and why? Also I have done some looking for acoustically transparent video screen. It could be a DIY solution or a reasonably priced unit that would drop from the ceiling. I have thought of building the front wall out about 1 foot and put speakers in behind it. I have a set of component speakers I would really like to use, and put a light in behind the screen so I can use them as a show piece. 

There will be no windows, the room will be used primarly for movies, but I would like to play video games on a screen that size :rubeyes: and watch some TV. I was thinking of putting a TV in behind the screen, but reading the forums not sure if that is necessary from the quality of pictures a projector can now display according to everybody.

Thanks all for your input and I hope I have given enough detail for you to help me make a good purchasing decision.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

What's your price point for a pj?

As for the AT screen material, Seymour makes a good product. And they have plans for diy screens on their web page.


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm gonna throw you a high, hard curve ball here and suggest you consider putting the screen where the platform is, and the pj and all electronics in a rack at the back of the room. The "furnace room" area would be a great place for the bee-hind of all your gear, not just for ready access to it (A HUGE DEAL!) but also for A/C i.e. you could overcool that space if you wanted to, to help-out the warm electronics.

Think about it anyway...


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Wow, that was actually quite tuff. I may not be reading it right but it looks like your wanting a 12' diagonal image (screen 10' x 8') with a projector at 11'. If this is the case I don't know how you will do it and get HD (1080p) 16:9. Classroom projector sure, not HT. Closest I found with a price within reason is the Panasonic PT-AE4000U which has a lense capable of throwing a 120" picture at your limit of 11' 10"


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Mechman, I would ideally like to get it for under 1500, but I know I can spend 3000 or more quite easily. I don’t need the bleeding edge, I don’t mind getting a unit that is a year or two old that was bleeding edge when it was released, but now they are clearing them out. 

I read that I could do 3D with a projector by having two of them, running the signal through my computer and use some polarized glasses. That could be a future consideration…

Laserfan, Hey I had tossed that idea around. Now that I have had some time to think about it and you mentioned it, I could see that working better. I did plan to put my cabinet in the back room completely. But a friend suggested I put it through the wall and show off the hardware. Just thinking about the noise that would come through the cabinet from the furnace room. Would be easier to AC it there and keep the hardware cool. Great Idea!! I was trying to figure out how to maximze the size of my screen and have my electronics cabinet all on the same wall. By moving the screen to the other wall that solved that problem!

Andre, the 11' measurement is to the front of the step, I have not settled on a screen size yet, just know what my physical max’s are. I do have a throw of up to 17 feet from the back wall to the front wall. The projector does not need to be 11 feet away. I can put at any distance up to 17’ from the wall. The room and house are currently not built, but will be starting in a week or two.

Thanks everybody for the feedback, if you need more detail please ask!


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

4U2NVME said:


> ...a friend suggested I put it through the wall and show off the hardware. Just thinking about the noise that would come through the cabinet from the furnace room. Would be easier to AC it there and keep the hardware cool. Great Idea!!


Honestly I didn't think about the noise from the furnace room! :blink: Behind my own rack is a closet (no noise to it) which is accessible from its own door in another room. Two ideas:

1. Put a glass door on the pj or the whole shebang to block-out any noise from the furnace

2. Enclose the rack from behind with cheap plywood and insulation until the furnace room noise is a non-issue, and put a small, AC-only duct into top of it to feed cool air. Of course you hinge a plywood panel so you can get at the wiring.

I don't like 1. much myself just cuz I don't like the idea of firing-thru glass (would have to be very fine glass, and you'd want/need to keep it super-clean of course). Here's my back-of-the-room rack (with pj on the 3rd shelf down):


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Laser that is a nice clean install thanks for sharing that with me. I would hang the projector from the roof if I had to. From what I understand the projectors have a range that will give the best quality picture from a set distance from the screen? Thats kind of why I'm looking at this right now so I can think of a model or two that I may want to purchase and build my room around the projector, not the other way.

I really do like how clean that is, I assume the wiring in behind is a nice.

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok here is a screenshot of a Website that is suggesting the screen size for my room. I have linked it here if anybody is looking for a Website like that. 

Screen size viewing distance calculator.










So lets say I go with a 100" wide screen that is 8.3 wide screen by 4.6 feet high for a 16:9 aspect ratio if my math is correct? ((100*9)/16))/12 = 4.6 feet? 8.3 feet by 4.7 feet that does not sound very big, am I understanding this correctly?

If I want to display 4:3 I need to make sure there is at least 6.25 ft high screen length?

Do I want to make my screen exactly the right size for the picture to display on? or make it so I can display both aspect sizes? This is pretty funny, the more I look the more questions pop up without me even knowing.


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

If you are going to show a lot of movies, then you need to consider instead a 2.35 or 2.40 to 1 screen e.g. if 10' wide the height is 120/2.4=50inches high. Your 4:3 programs would thus be 50x1.333=67" wide and your 16x9 programs would be 89" wide.

You get a projector with motorized lens zoom capability to make your images fit the height, and you can mask the sides (or not) depending on your program material. Take a look at this projection calculator which happens to have my PJ in it atm.

This type of screen (a 2.40:1) will make your home theater look/feel/act like a Theater--if you install a 16x9 screen then you have instead a Sports Bar (not that there's anything wrong with that!).  :snoring:


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

It ability to project at various distances (and it overall recommendation) is the reason I had suggested the Panasonic PT-AE4000U. It also has a street price of $2k

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae4000_projector_review.htm


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Laserfan said:


> This type of screen (a 2.40:1) will make your home theater look/feel/act like a Theater--if you install a 16x9 screen then you have instead a Sports Bar (not that there's anything wrong with that!).  :snoring:


As fun as it would be to have a sports bar in the basement of my house :bigsmile:, I am sure I would rather it look more like a theater room. Thanks for the heads up Laserfan. The wife would never see me if my place served a good dark ale!!!

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

It says you can only use the special Panosonic bulb for replacement. Do you know the replacement cost on it?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...T_LAE4000_Replacement_Lamp_for_PT_AE4000.html

$336 (which is comparible to the bulb cost of the Mitu HC6800 which also has power focus)


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## jjmbxkb (Jun 1, 2010)

Something else in your original post: Leaving 1 foot of space behind your AT screen may not be enough. Even if what you have now is small, you may want leave room for future upgradfes. I always thought you need at least 30 inches or more. 

As Panny 4k owner, I certainly agree with everyone's suggestion on it and the use of a scope screen (2.35:1), or CIH setup. Just a reminder in your design process: If you go that route, you have to mount your projector low enough so that it is within the height of the screen, otherwise the motorized zoom switching will not work. There is a cost effective way to get around this limitation and gain other benefits, but that will involve 2 screens.

Just so you know, the Panny 4K is an excellent film projector, but people who use it as a giant computer screen are not totally satisfied for its softer, film like images. Epson 8500u would be a better choice in that case, however it does not have motorzied zoom. So unless you want to significantly increase your budget, choosing the right projector will involve making compromises.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

I was leaving the 1 foot for my Component speakers to go beind the screen. What would I use the 30 inches for as in upgrades? I saw your link to your home set up, nicly done for sure :T and I saw you hung your PJ from the ceiling. So when you say it has to be within the height of the screen. Does that mean it has to hang low enough so the screens max height and projector lens are at about the same height? 

These PJ's are very nice for sure, but they are this years models and compared to last years new models still cheaper at release date.... but... is there any PJ's that were released lets say last year or the year before that were at the top of the crop that are not avaliable for a steal of a deal? Is it worth getting 2 or 3 year old tech to save 40% on the cost of a PJ? or has there been so many advancements in the last year or so that I really should be looking at these newer high end PJ?

Thanks again for the feedback and great communication gents!

-NV


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

I have a Mits HC4900, which I love (it has motorized everything). If I were buying today I would look long & hard at the Panny 4000 for its PQ and convenience features re: zoom presets. I am hopeful however that my HC4900 will last until Gen 2 or 3 of LED-based projectors (no lamp to wear-down and replace). Affordable (for me) LED pjs are a ways off yet methinks.

If you rack-mount your PJ (instead of hanging from the ceiling) then you'll be free to position it at whatever height you need, and *ideally* (and not *necessarily*) it's close to the center of the screen.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Looking at your diagram I would say that you would do very well with the Panasonic AE4000. My big concern is that depending on how you do the screen and how large you go an AT screen may be our only option but that brings it out into the room another 2 or more ft. You never want to place your front speakers in the corners of the room and by looking at the diagram the one on the left would be that way. In wall speakers are also a big compromise and never really sound as good a a good set of floor standers.
I see above that you are thinking about going with an AT screen? make sure that you consider the distance you willbe sitting from it before you decied on a size.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

ARG!!!! lost my post twice now... :unbelievable:


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok below I have posted up a new room design. Its just a rough drawing to get an good feeling for visual, auditory and physical distances. I have a 10 foot screen in the new front of the room (if the size is not to large). It would be set up for a 2.4:1 aspect ratio. Would HD still display well on this even because the black out bars on the side of the AT screen? I would like to build a stage for the front of the room as well.










Tony I am going with cabinet speakers. I have a set of:

Towers
Rear or Side
Powered Sub box ( Can't remember brand right now )

want to get:
Center Channel
Second set of the Rear speakers.

If I go for a 9.2 or 9.1 system I would add these more then likely. They would be behind the screen with the center and other tower speakers. 


The links below are some completed rooms that I like, if you have any that are bookmarked in your browser please share them these rooms are quite nicly done and a good place to get some ideas from:


Super Clean Room

Drakes from HTS

jjmbxkb

Knight Style

I think these buttkickers sound cool, anybody have any experience with them? If so please let me know if its any more than just a cool thing to have once or twice, and possibly anything you may have learned from installing them or using them.

Butt Kicker


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## jjmbxkb (Jun 1, 2010)

4U2NVME said:


> I was leaving the 1 foot for my Component speakers to go beind the screen. What would I use the 30 inches for as in upgrades?


It's generally a good idea to keep speakers away from the being too close to the wall, esp. those with ports on the back. A tower speaker itself could be 15" thick, hence the extra space needed.



> I saw your link to your home set up, nicly done for sure :T and I saw you hung your PJ from the ceiling. So when you say it has to be within the height of the screen. Does that mean it has to hang low enough so the screens max height and projector lens are at about the same height?


 Thanks. Yes, it has to be that low. Note that my projector is mounted very close to the ceiling, at least a foot higher than the top of the scope screen, because of the use of two screens and a Constant Image Area setup. So my pictures do not reflect how low a projector has to be when doing Constant Image Height, which is the most popular or talked about setup at this moment. 



> These PJ's are very nice for sure, but they are this years models and compared to last years new models still cheaper at release date.... but... is there any PJ's that were released lets say last year or the year before that were at the top of the crop that are not avaliable for a steal of a deal? Is it worth getting 2 or 3 year old tech to save 40% on the cost of a PJ? or has there been so many advancements in the last year or so that I really should be looking at these newer high end PJ?


To me, no prior year models worked better than the Panny 4k. But your answer will depend on your priorities, such as picture qualiity, use of a scope screen, types of materials to view etc. For research, I recommend projectorreviews.com, very detailed, objective reviews. Take your time, as October and Novemer is when new models are announced and put onto the market. 

I believe your home theater will come out fantastic.


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

4U2NVME said:


> Ok below I have posted up a new room design.


I really like your new design myself! :bigsmile: Not sure about the entry door swing though, and I wonder about the size too. If it's 3' 6" to fit HVAC through, then isn't your access door to that room in the back too small? Yes, you need to take into account having to replace any/all of the HVAC items--ideally you have access from the outside but maybe not. Don't forget to make sure about "access".

While the 9' seating distance is good, and about what we have (look at mine here), I worry that you might be able to see an AT screen's pinholes.

I think you said this would be your first PJ--if yes I'd say to you that you don't want to over-plan this just yet. I'd build the room (the dims/layout is very nice), and (maybe) the platform, and then select your pj and put some pictures-up, on the wall itself. This will give you a good feel for what the various ARs are like, and what size(s) of images you like.

Or you might also want to do what I did, which was to buy a cheap (<$200) 5' x 10' half-inch Gatorfoam screen and use it for experimentation, before investing in a much more expensive screen, including an AT. Yes that's my GF screen in the pic--I liked it so much I kept it--I was gonna buy a motorized screen but the GF was just too cheap & easy (and GOOD)! :sn:


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

jjmbxkb said:


> It's generally a good idea to keep speakers away from the being too close to the wall, esp. those with ports on the back. A tower speaker itself could be 15" thick, hence the extra space needed.


Ok I'll look into giving it 30 inches, I may need to shrink down the sreen possibly. How large is your screen and how far away from it are you? Do you find yourself chasing the image from side to side or does it fall nicely into your vision?



jjmbxkb said:


> Thanks. Yes, it has to be that low. Note that my projector is mounted very close to the ceiling, at least a foot higher than the top of the scope screen, because of the use of two screens and a Constant Image Area setup. So my pictures do not reflect how low a projector has to be when doing Constant Image Height, which is the most popular or talked about setup at this moment.


So I can get away with the one 2.4:1 screen if I mount the PJ closer to the middle of the screen? 




jjmbxkb said:


> To me, no prior year models worked better than the Panny 4k. But your answer will depend on your priorities, such as picture qualiity, use of a scope screen, types of materials to view etc. For research, I recommend projectorreviews.com, very detailed, objective reviews. Take your time, as October and Novemer is when new models are announced and put onto the market.
> I believe your home theater will come out fantastic.


This is really good to know, My house won't be to lock out till most likely December anyways. So that will be a perfect time to look at them. I think I am sold on the Pany PJ. Its actually not to bad of a price at 2000 USD I just wanted to come in closer to 1500. But from what I have read, it comes out on top. It has some feature that it tries to emulate a different type of lens??? Or you can add it for 800 extra bones?

Any rate thanks jjmbxkb!! Appreciate your time.

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Laserfan said:


> I really like your new design myself! :bigsmile: Not sure about the entry door swing though, and I wonder about the size too. If it's 3' 6" to fit HVAC through, then isn't your access door to that room in the back too small? Yes, you need to take into account having to replace any/all of the HVAC items--ideally you have access from the outside but maybe not. Don't forget to make sure about "access". .


Good point on the back door, its a 2' 8" door, I honestly don't know what size furnaces etc are now. I have this in a dug out basement so its underground. Most houses here have dug out basements, from what I understand alot of US houses are just main floor?




Laserfan said:


> While the 9' seating distance is good, and about what we have (look at mine here), I worry that you might be able to see an AT screen's pinholes.


The screen that was suggested to me says that at about 9' under some lighting conditions I may see the pin holes, but at 10' with 20/20 vision I should be ok. 



Laserfan said:


> I think you said this would be your first PJ--if yes I'd say to you that you don't want to over-plan this just yet. I'd build the room (the dims/layout is very nice), and (maybe) the platform, and then select your pj and put some pictures-up, on the wall itself. This will give you a good feel for what the various ARs are like, and what size(s) of images you like.


Thats the hard part, since were building I want to get the room tricked out lol. I get one kick at the cat when the wife is weaker lol. I was trying to show her yesterday all the research and work I have done and she was least to say very uninterested. All she could say was how much will this all cost.. I was like I don't know, I am not even sure what I want to fully do yet. But when I mentioned I wanted to build it she cared then... and said why not just pay the contractors to do it. She is interested in cost and wants it all for free, but expects other people to do it. :help: Its like banging my head on freshly cured concrete with her! :scratch: 




Laserfan said:


> Or you might also want to do what I did, which was to buy a cheap (<$200) 5' x 10' half-inch Gatorfoam screen and use it for experimentation, before investing in a much more expensive screen, including an AT. Yes that's my GF screen in the pic--I liked it so much I kept it--I was gonna buy a motorized screen but the GF was just too cheap & easy (and GOOD)! :sn:


Is that a foam board type screen? 
The AT screen I was looking at was suggested by another HTS member. From what I read it sounds impressive, its a DIY screen and its a couple hundred dollars for the material. Who knows maybe your G/F let you upgrade to it, tell her the wires will be more hidden and so will the speakers. Its just knowing how to sell it :innocent: Seymouor Reviews in the forum seem to be ok, pictures quality looks bright and crisp from a review I saw here. Anybody else have/used it? If it is a couple hundred should I just jump right to it?

-NV


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## jjmbxkb (Jun 1, 2010)

Laserfan said:


> Or you might also want to do what I did, which was to buy a cheap (<$200) 5' x 10' half-inch Gatorfoam screen and use it for experimentation, before investing in a much more expensive screen, including an AT. Yes that's my GF screen in the pic--I liked it so much I kept it--I was gonna buy a motorized screen but the GF was just too cheap & easy (and GOOD)! :sn:


That's a very impressive screen, esp. for the price. Makes you wonder if the high cost ones are worth the money.


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## jjmbxkb (Jun 1, 2010)

4U2NVME said:


> How large is your screen and how far away from it are you? Do you find yourself chasing the image from side to side or does it fall nicely into your vision?


115" fixed frame scope screen, 106" 16:9 electrical drop down screen. My sofa is at 14.5'. Definitely on the far site from anything you will read about. Many want to sit much, much closer, and love having to move their heads left and right. It's a matter of personal preference.



4U2NVME said:


> So I can get away with the one 2.4:1 screen if I mount the PJ closer to the middle of the screen?


Yes. From looking at your design, this should not be an issue any more since I believe you are going to have projector booth type of setup in the back of your room. With the room length of 17', plus several feet from the AT screen install, that works out perfectly from throw distance and brightness perspective. BTW, if you are set for Panny 4k, you should start calculating the throw distance based on the screen size. Based on my rough calculation, you should be just fine. The following is a link to support site (http://www.panasonic.com/business/projectors/ae4000/index.asp). On the right side, look for links to operational and functional manuals. There should be a Throw Distance table in the Getting Started section. Remember to factor in the space behind the AT screen.



> ... But from what I have read, it comes out on top. It has some feature that it tries to emulate a different type of lens??? Or you can add it for 800 extra bones?


If you are referring to anamorphic lens, I won't say the projector emulates it, but rather offers a convinent and cost effective way of doing scope image with zooming. Any projectors with 1.33x zoom range can do this. The problem is switching aspect ratio each time means manually resetting everything, zoom, focus, positioning. Many videophiles had done just that for a long time. The Panny 3k released in 11/2008 was the first affordable model with motorized zoom/focus and memories, allowing you to save the settings for easy recall. It really opened up possibilities for the rest of us.

Zooming vs. Anamorphic is a very touchy topic, but cost wise the anamorphic lens will surely add a few thousand dollars, and require lots of tweaking to make it right. Based on your budget, zooming with Panny 4k is pretty much your only choice. * Let's hope the new models coming out in next months will change that as other manufacturers try to follow Panny 3k/4k's success. * 

A largely forgotten feature of this projector is that the Panny 4k has a video scaler built into it, so you can add anamorphic lens any time later if you choose to do so. 



4U2NVME said:


> Most houses here have dug out basements, from what I understand alot of US houses are just main floor?


Where are you located?


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

4U2NVME said:


> I was trying to show her yesterday all the research and work I have done and she was least to say very uninterested.


My wife didn't care a whit about any of it until I put a movie up on the wall. She was instantly hooked--we had a real theater at last! She helped alot after w/paint and drapes and wall coverings et al and the whole thing cost well less than $2500USD.

At this stage of the process you need to pay attention to a few construction details OTTOMH:

1. Insulation in walls (and ceiling!) to deaden sound from the HT to the rest of the house, or vice-versa

2. Consider staggered-stud wall construction if sound is an issue i.e. if you have a busy household

3. Try to keep water pipes out of the ceiling (you don't wanna hear your kids showering or toilets flushing

4. Have at least two good-sized HVAC ducts and locate them where they won't blow on your screen (in case it's one that might "flap" in the breeze). No ceiling fans.

5. If you do have a busy household (we do not) think about possible disruption from someone entering during a movie (e.g. no blinding lights right outside the door)

Just basic stuff like that. Sit quietly away from your wife and imagine your wonderful new HT!



jjmbxkb said:


> That's a very impressive screen, esp. for the price. Makes you wonder if the high cost ones are worth the money.


The high cost screens yield more brightness, better contrast, and other niceties (and some potential problems too) but my plain bright while Gatorfoam looks great in my dark room. I thought someday I might try painting the backside but hey it works so I haven't fixed it yet!



jjmbxkb said:


> Zooming vs. Anamorphic is a very touchy topic


And IMHO unless you have a massive DVD collection, and intend to watch it alot, there's no reason on Earth to spend on an anamorphic lens. And IMNSHO (not so humble) DVDs upscaling with a good Blu-ray player to 1080p is so good "who cares" about the little bit of extra pixels/light from anamorphic (which btw introduces another lens & possible distortion).


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

jjmbxkb said:


> Where are you located?


Jjmbxkb I am located in Southern Alberta Canada. Currently though living in a 5th wheel as I start my new house. Got most of the paper work back from the bank here today. So should be a go very shortly.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Laserfan said:


> My wife didn't care a whit about any of it until I put a movie up on the wall. She was instantly hooked--we had a real theater at last! She helped alot after w/paint and drapes and wall coverings et al and the whole thing cost well less than $2500USD.


The PJ that is being suggested is about 2K on its own, and I think I like it so far. See what it does in October. I really want this amp as well Onkyo TX-NR3007, it looks pretty amazing!




Laserfan said:


> 1. Insulation in walls (and ceiling!) to deaden sound from the HT to the rest of the house, or vice-versa


I have looked at two other products besides insulation. One is called Green Glue and the other is called resilient sound clips. I have read some sites that say the sound clips have up to a 90% failure rate. And you can't hang anything from a wall that has them. Anybody with any in site or what worked well. or on the Green Glue?



Laserfan said:


> 2. Consider staggered-stud wall construction if sound is an issue i.e. if you have a busy household


I was thinking for that for the two walls that are in the inside of the basement walls. For the two walls that are on the exterior I was just going to do a standard wall.



Laserfan said:


> 3. Try to keep water pipes out of the ceiling (you don't wanna hear your kids showering or toilets flushing
> 
> 4. Have at least two good-sized HVAC ducts and locate them where they won't blow on your screen (in case it's one that might "flap" in the breeze). No ceiling fans.


Good to know and think about thanks!





Laserfan said:


> The high cost screens yield more brightness, better contrast, and other niceties (and some potential problems too) but my plain bright while Gatorfoam looks great in my dark room. I thought someday I might try painting the backside but hey it works so I haven't fixed it yet!


I googled Gatorfoam and did not find the type of screen you were talking about. Did you have the link?



Laserfan said:


> And IMHO unless you have a massive DVD collection, and intend to watch it alot, there's no reason on Earth to spend on an anamorphic lens. And IMNSHO (not so humble) DVDs upscaling with a good Blu-ray player to 1080p is so good "who cares" about the little bit of extra pixels/light from anamorphic (which btw introduces another lens & possible distortion).


Ya, I just heard the projector may do it, but it was not a real concern for me. I think I should end up with a wizzy HT room. On a side note mentioned to the wife that I can't wait to start building this, I think there was a disconnect, she thought I was getting somebody else to build it. Where is that concrete floor again? :doh:


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## jjmbxkb (Jun 1, 2010)

Hi, 4U2NVME: Just heard the latest from IFA 2010 in Berlin. It appears that Panasonic PT-AE4K MAY stay for another year. Here is the link: http://www.heise.de/specials/Flach-e...artikelseite=4.


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

4U2NVME said:


> I googled Gatorfoam and did not find the type of screen you were talking about. Did you have the link?


Maybe cuz GF is not a HT screen! At least, I've never seen it promoted as such by the manufacturer. The Distributor I bought mine from (Laird plastics) was interested to know that it worked as a front projection screen. Here's a link:

http://www.graphicdisplayusa.com/prod_Gatorfoam

You would need to find a distributor in your area to buy from (go and look at it first), and for a 10' screen you'd ask for the 1/2" thick 60x120 panel (bright white of course) and then ask the distributor to cut it to the height you want e.g. 50" for a 2.40:1 screen, 54.54 for a 2.2:1 (a compromise when most movies are either 1.85 or 2.40). Or you could just leave it at 60x120 if you intend it as temporary (as I originally did). Shouldn't cost you >$175USD unless you have them deliver it--transportation can be tricky given it's 10feet long, has a somewhat delicate paperlike surface, and at 1/2 inch can maybe be destroyed by wind if not protected properly.

IIRC I had mine cut to 54", yielding a 120/54=2.22 AR (then I put a 2 inch felt border around the whole thing). I was in a hurry to get it cut-and-home and didn't order an AR that was any std movie shape. But in truth the difference in 2.20 and 2.35 and 2.40 is so small as to really not have much meaning when you're zooming. There are alot of folks who are religious about "perfect black" masking all ARs, but I am not--once a movie starts I don't notice the borders at all...:innocent:

BTW you don't have this issue but if I were to buy another one, I'd get one with a black foam backing rather white, for those few times I watch movies during the day. I have a big window behind my screen, and despite that it has blinds there are "points of light" that can make it thru to the frontside of the screen. The black would eliminate all possibility of that.

P.S. But you absolutely want the white-back-not-black, as you then have the advantage of using the backside if necessary-or-desired e.g. you could paint it if you wanted!


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Since this thread is more about design than an actual projector, I'm moving it to the Home Theater Design and Construction sub forum. I'll leave a redirect for a few days. :T


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

mechman said:


> Since this thread is more about design than an actual projector, I'm moving it to the Home Theater Design and Construction sub forum. I'll leave a redirect for a few days. :T


It started off as a Projector question and took a life on of its own  Thanks for the re-direct mechman, hope they are as active as everybody in here has been!!


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

4U2NVME said:


> All she could say was how much will this all cost.. I was like I don't know, I am not even sure what I want to fully do yet. But when I mentioned I wanted to build it she cared then... and said why not just pay the contractors to do it. She is interested in cost and wants it all for free, but expects other people to do it. :help: Its like banging my head on freshly cured concrete with her! :scratch:


Boy that sounds familiar... :sad: My wife seems to be adjusting to the stream of purchases now, but I do get a funny look every time a new box shows up at the door. And we're done paying the contractors for their part, so relatively speaking, the bigger bills are out of the way - just a few thousand to go. :sweat:

I'm also planning on the Seymour AV DIY screen and Panny 4000 projector - don't have either yet, so can't give you any first hand account, just the mostly positive feedback I've seen from others online. If you decide not to go AT for the screen, Wilsonart laminate sheet is another option for a cheap DIY fixed screen (I was looking at that before finding a reasonably priced AT alternative).


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Hey Fitzwaddle hello!



fitzwaddle said:


> Boy that sounds familiar... :sad: My wife seems to be adjusting to the stream of purchases now, but I do get a funny look every time a new box shows up at the door. And we're done paying the contractors for their part, so relatively speaking, the bigger bills are out of the way - just a few thousand to go. :sweat:


Humm is there a HT forum for how to survive the trouble and strife? ;c) If not we should start one and come up with all sorts of good idea and support groups lol. Just talked with builder today and let him know about some of plans and he seems pretty positive about it. Asked him to have the plumber not put draining water over top of my HT room ;c) and creating the two exterior walls as a stagard stud style. 



fitzwaddle said:


> I'm also planning on the Seymour AV DIY screen and Panny 4000 projector - don't have either yet, so can't give you any first hand account, just the mostly positive feedback I've seen from others online. If you decide not to go AT for the screen, Wilsonart laminate sheet is another option for a cheap DIY fixed screen (I was looking at that before finding a reasonably priced AT alternative).


Seems the way to go with those products., but I am a few months or more away, but like the thread topic says, trying to do it right! My only concern with the Seymour screen is that my front row could be as close as 8 feet, so the holes could be visible, not sure how distracting this would be. I know what a dead pixel on my monitor looks like and that drives me crazy!!

Fitzwaddle thanks for your comments and welcome to this thread. Post up a few pics of your HT room if you like in here. Or I'll lurk and see if you already have.

If there is anybody wanting or willing to take me under their wing don't hesitate to send me a PM or speak up in this thread I'm not proud and I would welcome the help and mentorship. I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do; what I understand now is that I now don't know nearly as much as I figured I did, and I'm feeling dumber each day :blink:

-NV

Ok to Crazy I was already looking at your setup, VERY NICE, big room. What program did you use to draw out your 3D Model? Did you have some more recent pictures? You have a pretty decent name, I'm a Brad as well.


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

4U2NVME said:


> I thought I had a pretty good understanding of what I needed to do; what I understand now is that I now don't know nearly as much as I figured I did, and I'm feeling dumber each day


As in Life, with respect to Front Projection "There is no substitute for experience". So if you have none yourself, you should either buy your PJ and start playing with it (I guess you can't as I think you said you were living in a 5th wheeler perhaps) or if not, start seeking-out home theater retailers and find their projection rooms and spend as much time in them as they will tolerate you! Probably best not to bring along a 6-pack and box of popcorn! :R


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, well I know from looking around I need to plan the layout alot more. I have seen some 3d software models of theater rooms that have been planned. What is good software to use for this? 

I also know I need to figure out room acoustics and sound control via acoustical panels. I see that most people have planned where they will go before the room is even started, is there a software program or something like that, that could help me decide when/where and what type?

What is a good book or website to read besides HTS. I have read some one thread that went on for a hundred pages. Ok I have not read it all, but I am around page 60, its a very good 'how I built my theater room' but I want to know how I should plan and build my theater room. The last couple weeks have been searching and searching and it is going well, I just need a point into a better or more focused direction. Any help pointing?

-NV


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

For 3d modeling, try SketchUp - works well and it's free.

As far as books, try:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/0071603328/ref=mp_s_a_1?qid=1283495186&sr=8-1
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## Laserfan (Feb 3, 2008)

4U2NVME said:


> I need to figure out room acoustics and sound control via acoustical panels.


For an EZ read and good advice look at the latest Sound & Vision mag. Article on acoustic panels may even be on their website.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Laserfan said:


> For an EZ read and good advice look at the latest Sound & Vision mag. Article on acoustic panels may even be on their website.


Thanks Laserfan!! I'll check that out. Going on a 10 day vacation so I'll have lots of reading time, just trying to line some stuff up!

Brad


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

jjmbxkb said:


> Hi, 4U2NVME: Just heard the latest from IFA 2010 in Berlin. It appears that Panasonic PT-AE4K MAY stay for another year. Here is the link: http://www.heise.de/specials/Flach-e...artikelseite=4.


Jim that appears to be a bad link.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

4U2NVME said:


> I think these buttkickers sound cool, anybody have any experience with them? If so please let me know if its any more than just a cool thing to have once or twice, and possibly anything you may have learned from installing them or using them.


I'm surprised nobody posted a reply to this.... :whistling:

What I can tell you is this: It adds an extra feeling to the movie experience... even if you have a nice sub that can go really down (10Hz, 15Hz or 20Hz) that shakes the whole room... the buttkicker will shake your seat(s) and you'll feel the explosions, crashes, gunshots, etc. 

I enjoy them with every movie that has LFE, specially those with a lot of bass :bigsmile:

They're really easy to install (is like connecting a speaker), when I bought mine I got it from http://www.rtheaters.com/buttkicker/ (I'm not sure if he stills visit the forum, but Roman helped me) :innocent:

Good luck with your build :T


EDIT: Here is the contact info for Roman
----------------------------
Ultimate Home Entertainment
www.rtheaters.com
[email protected]
732.617.2348


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

David,

Thanks for the reply, I think this will defiantly be an add on that I will add at a later time. Always wanted some thing like this for my car, I think in a HT room it would be awesome!.

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, with much searching, I think I will go with the recommendations of the Panasonic PT -AE4000U HT projector. It was also suggested to me that I rear mount my projector at the back of my room. My room is about 17 feet deep, so correct me if I am wrong but my throw distance is 17 feet?

My viewing distance currently is going to be approx 9-10 feet on the first row and about 12-13 feet on the second row. According to Myhometheater if I make my viewing distance of the back row for 13 feet, I should have a screen size width of about 100 inches? This calculator below is for 16:9.
Viewing Distance/Screen Size

Correct my math if I am wrong please, to calculate the height of my screen I would take the ratio’s:
2.4/1 = 2.4: I would take 100”/2.4 and get a screen height of 41.667”
16/9= 1.778: I would take 100”/1.778 and get a screen height of 56 ¼ “ 
4/3=1.334: and for this one I think I would shrink the width to fit the 56 ¼ “ height. That would give me a width of 56 ¼ * 1.334 = 75.0” correct?

Which do I really want to make the default size for the black bars around the screen so the picture looks the best, or is there a way to make both the 16:9 and 2.4:1 work on the same screen? I am not worried about the standard TV size too much unless there is a way to deal with it as well. I am sketching my room out in Sketchup and should have something ready in a couple days.


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

4U2NVME said:


> What is a good book or website to read besides HTS.


Lots of threads on dedicated builds also on avsforum.com - hope I'm allowed to mention that. :dontknow:



4U2NVME said:


> My room is about 17 feet deep, so correct me if I am wrong but my throw distance is 17 feet?


Not quite, since the throw distance is the distance between the front of the projector's lens and the front of the screen - so you'd have to take into account the thickness of the screen, the depth of the projector, and a little extra room behind it. So maybe closer to 15'? My planned throw distance is 15 1/2'.



4U2NVME said:


> My viewing distance currently is going to be approx 9-10 feet on the first row and about 12-13 feet on the second row. According to Myhometheater if I make my viewing distance of the back row for 13 feet, I should have a screen size width of about 100 inches?[/URL]


Do you plan on sitting in the front row more often or the back row? Plan your screen size on where you think you'll be sitting - and let your eyes be the judge, don't trust a calculator to tell you what you will like the most. I plan on buying my projector first, throwing up a sheet on the wall, and playing with different screen sizes before I lock it in and build my screen. Good to have a ballpark going on though of course, since you'll want to at least have your wiring in the ceiling ready - just put it where it still gives you some room to adjust the screen size (not at either extreme of the zoom range). Also, I'd use the calculator on the Panasonic site for planning purposes - and you can also select 2.35:1 with it.



4U2NVME said:


> Correct my math if I am wrong please, to calculate the height of my screen I would take the ratio’s:
> 2.4/1 = 2.4: I would take 100”/2.4 and get a screen height of 41.667”
> 16/9= 1.778: I would take 100”/1.778 and get a screen height of 56 ¼ “
> 4/3=1.334: and for this one I think I would shrink the width to fit the 56 ¼ “ height. That would give me a width of 56 ¼ * 1.334 = 75.0” correct?
> ...


I cheated, I just went to the Carada site, and looked at the dimensions of their screens - found a 2.35:1 size that I liked, and then looked to see what the width was for a 16:9 screen that was about the same height. Then marked that size up on the wall using a tape measure, hmm, yeah looks about right. Will fine tune when I get my projector and sheet.  The math looks OK, except for the 2.4:1 - it should have the same height, at least if you're still doing CIH (Constant Image Height).


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

4U2NVME said:


> I think this will defiantly be an add on that I will add at a later time


Just don't forget to prewire (specially if your hiding all cables and wires) :T



4U2NVME said:


> My viewing distance currently is going to be approx 9-10 feet on the first row and about 12-13 feet on the second row...


Don't forget something very important..... SOUND.

There's some guidelines to follow when placing the seats... or you could choose a place that will have a lot of problems (lack of bass or a strong bass, imaging, etc.)

Rule of thumb is to start placing your seats 62% from front wall or 38% from back wall, in your case 10'6" from front or 6'6" from back wall.

So, 10' will be okay, and try keep at least 1' from wall to back of seat on the second row... :T


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Fitzwaddle thanks for the input. I'll have to check to see what you mean by CIH. That mean my 16:9 and 2.4:1 will have the same height? I'll look into it for sure. 



> Do you plan on sitting in the front row more often or the back row?


I may get a couch or love seat or the front or back row, so I guess it will be where my butt is most comfortable and not fall asleep lol, but I think it will be the back row if the rear sound imaging is good there. 



> Not quite, since the throw distance is the distance between the front of the projector's lens and the front of the screen


Thanks for clearing that up, If I go with the AT screen I think my throw distance will decrease. 

One thing I saw with the Pany projector is that it goes from 1.0 to 2.0ish magnification, and I read its best to keep closer to the middle of the range. So am I shooting for a 1.35 to 1.5 magnification, or do I want to be closer to the 1.0 and steer clear of 2.0?


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

4U2NVME said:


> Fitzwaddle thanks for the input. I'll have to check to see what you mean by CIH. That mean my 16:9 and 2.4:1 will have the same height?


Yes, hence the name Constant Image Height - no matter what the aspect ratio is, you project it onto the same height on the screen (so any masking would be on the sides). There are two ways to do it: (1) using the projector's stretch mode to stretch the image vertically to fill the panel, and then an anamorphic lens to stretch the image out horizontally, restoring the aspect ratio; or (2) the poor man's approach (which I'll be using), just zoom the projector - 2.4:1 fills the screen side to side and top to bottom, the black bars shoot over the top and bottom of the screen (and can be masked); 16:9 fills the screen top to bottom and has black bars on the sides (which can be masked). The Panny 4000 is the only current projector that has the extra super neato feature of being able to automatically detect movie aspect ratio and zoom/focus to suit it.



4U2NVME said:


> One thing I saw with the Pany projector is that it goes from 1.0 to 2.0ish magnification, and I read its best to keep closer to the middle of the range. So am I shooting for a 1.35 to 1.5 magnification, or do I want to be closer to the 1.0 and steer clear of 2.0?


Shooting from closer gives you more light output at the expense of contrast; shooting from further away gives you more contrast at the expense of less light output. In my case, since I want a bigger screen, I'll be mounting almost as close as I can that will still allow 2.4:1 and 16:9 to work properly on my screen size.


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## davey_fl (Sep 16, 2010)

salvasol said:


> Just don't forget to prewire (specially if your hiding all cables and wires) :T



Or run conduit so you can pull wires later.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

I was thinking of using central vacuum pipe for my conduit. I have looked and not sure what else is economical. Any body used Central Vac for their conduit, or have a line on an affordable solution?

I am still not sure if I will be going the AT route for my screen, or save about a Foot deph in the front of the room and not hide the speakers behind the screen. I have been looking at some room treatments and think I will be making some fabric panels myself and hang them all over the wall. I headed over to AVS fitz like you suggested. Actually I had an account that I never used and found some great panels designs there.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

OK, does it matter where the center channel is if I don't put it behind the screen? If I put it under the screen or above the screen? I like the pictures better of screens when its wall mounted or painted with no box below the screen. 

So I was thinking of putting my center channel speaker above the screen. I would put it in the sofit above.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

The wife wants a cleaner look for the room. She does not appear to be to big on the acoustical panels all over the place. Can I still make a great sounding room and not have soft surfaces all over the place? Or is that pretty difficult? If I were to push for the theater look (soft walls etc) she would go for it, but it has taken me many years and I have not learned the lesson well, could I do a good job and keep us both happy? lol.


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

Have you shown her some pics of the well done theaters with fabric wall coverings?


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

I have, she was not big on them. I showed her some of the nicer ones where people have made all the frames. Maybe if I knew 3d software better then sketchup, I could show her what it would look like. 

She's a tough cookie, I know if I wanted to do it I could, just trying to get the best of both worlds if possible. The difference with a fully insulated room is much better than only having hangings on the wall correct?

Brad.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Hey Brad,

I see your room construction looks to be a lot like I have mine visualized. But you do have a lot of hard surfaces/plywood up along the ceiling and your pot lights. Were you planning on going with the soft panels as well? Do you have newer pics?

Brad.

BTW. Great Name


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## Alen K (Aug 27, 2010)

Hope you don't mind but I'm jumping in to reply to several posts from the OP. 



4U2NVME said:


> I was thinking of using central vacuum pipe for my conduit. I have looked and not sure what else is economical. Any body used Central Vac for their conduit, or have a line on an affordable solution?


Central vac 2" PVC works fine as long as all your runs are primarily straight with only one or two changes in direction (e.g., within a soffit to a projector on the ceiling). It's certainly the least expensive route. 



4U2NVME said:


> OK, does it matter where the center channel is if I don't put it behind the screen? If I put it under the screen or above the screen? I like the pictures better of screens when its wall mounted or painted with no box below the screen. So I was thinking of putting my center channel speaker above the screen. I would put it in the sofit above.


Some people do that, and even recommend it to ensure the back row gets line-of-ear  to the center speaker, but you do then have to be concerned with reflections of the sound off the ceiling. And unless you elevate your L&R speakers as well, it breaks the general rule not to have more than two feet of vertical distance between the tweaters of your front speakers (for consistent horizontal pans). 



4U2NVME said:


> The wife wants a cleaner look for the room. She does not appear to be to big on the acoustical panels all over the place. Can I still make a great sounding room and not have soft surfaces all over the place? Or is that pretty difficult? If I were to push for the theater look (soft walls etc) she would go for it, but it has taken me many years and I have not learned the lesson well, could I do a good job and keep us both happy? lol.


There are some great looking fabric walls out there but they do look considerably more complicated to build and it will take a few inches from the room width, if that's an issue. Have you considered acoustical panels with paintings or photographs imprinted on the fabric (e.g., Acoustic ArtPanels, SonicPrint, Audimute Acoustics Panels)? Give you wife final approval of the art. They're not cheap but a happy wife is priceless, right?


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Humm builder forgot to stager the studs around my HT room. I talked to him and he will do that for me, problem is its a supporting wall... =c(

-NV


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

You gonna share some pics with us aren't you?


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Most definatly, its still in stick frame, I could post a pic or two, but the concrete is not even poured for the basement yet. That happens tomorrow!!


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

4U2NVME said:


> Hey Brad,
> 
> I see your room construction looks to be a lot like I have mine visualized. But you do have a lot of hard surfaces/plywood up along the ceiling and your pot lights. Were you planning on going with the soft panels as well? Do you have newer pics?


No, no new pics yet, since I got sidetracked for a couple weeks building the THT LP (love it), and has been rather slow going since then - for a while I was worried about inspections - electrical was already inspected, and then I decided to make some changes and add a zone, so I needed to pull another electrical permit, now trying to button up the soffit and get those electrical changes taken care of. I'll post some pics once I'm done with that.

As far as hard surfaces, the majority of the bottom of the soffit will be open - filled with R19 insulation and fabric covered, for some bass trapping - so that should help some. Its still an echo chamber though, until I get carpet and seating in, really looking forward to that milestone. Bought my seats many weeks ago, still holding off on taking delivery until the room is further along.



4U2NVME said:


> BTW. Great Name



Thanks Brad!

Brad


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

I wish my builder was doing it right, when the guys came to pour the basement floor they poured it, and poured it over the pressure treated wood and have my untreated studs now encased in the concrete. :sad:


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

Oh man that sucks. Is the build permitted? If so, would it pass inspection that way? If not, I would demand that the builder correct their mistake - well probably regardless.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Here is a couple shots, Its not the whole space unfortunately, the mechanical room is at the back, but it will start to take shape quickly... OK next few months lol.









Grey post is where they are feeding the power under the concrete slab from the wall behind me. That should be the back of the HT room. Where I am standing is where my screen should be approx.










I did some checking, its not ideal, but as long as its kept dry it should be ok. The floor is on a base of about 4" of gravel, so I don't see the concrete wicking up much moisture after it cures, or so that is what I tell myself so I can sleep tonight.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Looking at that I just realized it pretty close to the middle of the room and where I want to put all my low voltage wires.. ..


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

If you're feeling adventurous, you could chop off the studs at the bottom, slide in new PT bottom plate, bolt it down, and toe nail the studs to it. I know nothing about Canadian building code, but as is that wouldn't pass inspection here (any wood in contact with concrete needs to be green / PT).


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

ummm, I was always told that untreated lumber encased in concrete is a no no. In fact, all lumber encased in concrete is a no no. 

Interesting for sure. Have fun installing drywall and sealing those walls with no bottom plate to nail into. Not to mention that you will probably have to glue all your trim on. Someone should pay for that mistake (and not you).

:boxer:


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## Gregavi (Sep 22, 2009)

I'm a General Contractor and what I would do is, as the previous poster suggested, cut the studs off at 1 1/2" above the floor and slip a 2X pressure treated bottom plate in and then anchor the plate down with a few of these: http://www.simpsonanchors.com/catalog/mechanical/titen-hd/

About every 4' is sufficiant. They sell them at HD and work great.

Either that or put 2X or 3X blocks between the studs at the bottom for drywall and baseboard backing and don't worry about the wood in contact with concrete issue. It's a highly over-rated concern IMO. When was the last time you saw wood rot from contact with dry concrete, even non pressure treated?

I guess it all depends on who's paying for it. The contractor should have known better. I would question the contractors knowledge and ability if he made that fundamental mistake.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Thanks Gregavi for your response. I did lose some sleep over couple days, but from what I have found is if we keep it dry. We have about 4" of gravel underneath that there should be no issues.

I don't think the contractor looked at the framers job before the concrete came in. When I mentioned it to him I could see the look on his face and he looked quite embarrassed. We are paying for it, its cost plus, we do get to see all bills a few times from the over all build. But I assume we would pay for the mistake.

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Also adding to the HT build a outdoor screen and PJ, that is pretty cool, the wife is really excited about that, more then the HT room and asks me almost daily have I ordered that one yet.

Its a Epson Moviemate 85 HD and a Gemmy blow up screen


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## Gregavi (Sep 22, 2009)

You should be fine, but, it would be pretty easy to cut the studs and put a PT bottom plate in place. If it were me, I would do that, mostly because I know how easy it would be. If it is a T&M job, the "contractor" should at least pay for the labor in doing the job. It would take a few hours to complete (I can't determine how much actual lin. Ft. there is by the photos). You could pay for the PT plate material. If I were the contractor (I would never have let it happen to begin with), I would agree to that. Can't hurt to ask. It would let you sleep better, even though I don't think it will be an issue, you would know it was done right. If you end up doing it, make sure he leaves the existing plate in place so not to create a void in the concrete where the new plate would go. I assume the plate that he buried was PT material?

At the very least, you/he should put 2X blocking at the bottom for backing.

Good luck.


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## Gregavi (Sep 22, 2009)

After looking at the photos again, it would take about an hour to put in a new plate all the way around. Unless I'm not seeing some of it.

Another question, by puring conctete after it was framed, is the door header at the proper height. It should be 82" off the floor. If the framer didn't know the concrete would be poured after framing, I assume the header is now too low. It looks like they used a 4X8 header. That could be changed to a 4X6 header to gain back your height. 4X8 is overkill it that situation anyway. (Rule of thumb: 4X however many feet the opening is, in inches. Ex. If the opening is up to 4', a 4X4 header is sufficiant. 6' opening, 4X6 header etc.)

Just an observation.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Would that be the same if this was a supporting wall? The wall is a 2 * 6 wall and is supporting the floor joists above. I will measure the door header and see how far off the floor it is. Thanks again Gregavi, I may post more shots for ya, or I could just link my FB page =c)

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Gregavi said:


> At the very least, you/he should put 2X blocking at the bottom for backing.
> 
> Good luck.


The footers were pressure treated yes. From looking at it now, it appears he had approx 4 - 5 inches of gravel and about 3 - 4 inches of concrete. The washed gravel was put in from dirt level to footing level, and then the concrete was poured, it looks as if it is about 1" above the footer plate.

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

bbieger said:


> ummm, I was always told that untreated lumber encased in concrete is a no no. In fact, all lumber encased in concrete is a no no.
> 
> Interesting for sure. Have fun installing drywall and sealing those walls with no bottom plate to nail into. Not to mention that you will probably have to glue all your trim on. Someone should pay for that mistake (and not you).
> 
> :boxer:


I did point that out to him that there is no bottom plate to nail trim or drywall into. I'll chat with him again and see about putting in the bottom plate.

-NV


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## Gregavi (Sep 22, 2009)

If it is a 6X wall, a 4X6 header is plenty (layed sideways where the 4X is the height and 6X is the width to match the wall width) for that opening. And yes, for a load bearing wall, even though those are NOT load bearing walls. I assume the house stood up without those walls in place. They are partition walls, unless they were there when the house was built and critical to the support of the span of the floor joists.

So if the concrete is 1" above the bottom plate and the bottom plate is 2x, then the header would be at 2 1/2" lower than the standard 82" height. So changing the header from what looks like a 6X8 to a 6X6 would give you 81 1/2" height, assuming they framed at standard 82" height. 81 1/2" would be fine. Anything under that and you'll be cutting the bottom of a standard 80" door.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, not much has been done on house for week and a half. The roof trusses are pretty crazy so they had to goto engineer. On the positive side, I have ordered and its ready to be picked up at the border approx 280 lbs of wire, connectors, plates and tools. Also have a outdoor projector being delivered there and a blow up HT screen

I am looking at ordering some smurf tube 1" to run in my HT room to future proof my place. I know 1" is pretty small. Am I wasting my money with this? I will be running some 2" pipe * 2 runs from the basement to the roof, and a couple 2" runs to other parts of the house. I will be also running the smurf tube to my 3 TV's in the house. I will be keeping all runs empty, and just using them later. The 2" will most likely be some Central Vac tubing (Cost) 

The walls are indeed load bearning and 9 feet high in the baement. This week we are supose to get our trusses up and installed, and septic system installed in the ground. Winter took it time getting here, but its here now. Snow hit the grund and the next week will be 0 to -10C for the next week. 

-NV


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Finally, could not find the new host for the last few days. Its only now I have gotten access back to the site. I was getting pretty freaked thinking it was actually down. Said a few hours.... took me a few days.

Ok now that I have all the whining done away with. Some news. The house is still being built, we have the start of a roof and more of the basement is getting framed and completed. Roof trusses are going on, the back deck is getting built and who knows by then end of this week I may actually have a sheeted roof. The sky light is looking cool its double wide and should be a great addition.

I am somewhat concerned though, the electrician has put the electrical box right in the middle of the wall on the theater room side for my main electrical panel. It was going to be the place where I was going to put my equipment rack. How far does my equipment and wires have to be away from the electrical panel? I think i may have to look for a different place to put my server rack now. 

I had purchased 3 sub Polk sub woofers about two weeks back and had on running in my current place and I was extremely unimpressed. I got a great deal on some PSW10's, well OK the price was good but the speakers were poor. I returned the sub woofer and went out and purchased 2 - (PSW505's) I really hope these are much better.

We have gotten a puppy as well since we are in town and training it before we get moved out of town on the acerage, its sure cute, but I think she is also the devil.


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

Where's the mandatory pet picture?

I miss your old avatar. :dumbcrazy:


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok here are two pics, hope Its ok no so electronics related ;c)



















I'll bring back the old Avatar for a limited engagement lol.

Any idea's on the other issues with my electronics cabinet?


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

Very cute pup. :T

As far as the electrical panel / rack location - hmm, well I know the conventional wisdom is to avoid running electrical lines with audio cables - and if you have to, cross them at right angles - but I'm honestly not sure how far apart is "good" if they're parallel.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Hey all Happy new year, hope the holidays were good for everybody! So it seems we, er "I" have decided that the server rack is going in the back electrical room and will not be visible inside of the HT room. At least with this it will be easier to sound proof the room as there will be no 'holes' going through the wall for the equipment and rack. I guess there will be no distracting flashing lights as well.

Started to move again with the house build, the electrician came out and we located most of the switches and lights for the house. I still have all the low voltage wiring I will need to run after the electrician is done. Ended up getting a nice sliding miter saw and table saw for the HT build now. Some times I don't understand women, of I'm like most men, but she is wanting to pay for the carpenters to build the stage and the risers. I need to get my plans all figured out today. 

Only problem is that its in my head and I'm about 85% sure what I am doing but its hard to put it 'all' on paper. I know I want to run power and data to the risers. I want to run power to the stage for lights etc. All of this I was going to plan out as I was building it, see what looks good where, but not I need to have this all ready for the carpenter, and I know I'm going to miss quite a bit and pay way to much for it. =c( She has no idea what she is doing to me. :rant:


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok I did some work on sketchup and am starting to get down to a final design for my room. 










This is with a 105" wide screen 120" diagonal, In the ceiling I want to build a star field. I found a cool site Heavens Above you can put in a certain date and time, and it will show you what the sky looked like at that time. There is a certain date I will be using for my sky, I'll have to let you all know later what it was. Putting front speakers to fire through my HT screen just like the movies 

I am toying with two different lighitng choices, both include the sconces on the side walls, but I am not sure if I want to include the lights in the bulkheads, or in the ceiling design. What do you all think?










Ignore the small box under the floor, I'm new with sketchup its a oops. Anyways this is my seating, I will have 3 HT chairs upfront and build a 18" bar behind with some 'comfortable' bar stools behind. Most of the time it will be just two of us watching, when its not we could throw a couple bean bag chairs on the floor or use the bar stools. Be great for watching the game, have some food and stuff on the table behind. Or leave enough room to do the 360 connect. This gives me about 10 feet from screen from the front row and about 14 for the back. The back row is pretty close to the back wall, but I don't plan to sit there much ;c). I am also going to wire in a place so I can dock a laptop. Have a USB, Ethernet, Video, and other connections there so if a friend brings over a Lappy its a easy as 1-2-3 to hook it up to the big screen and play whatever is on it.











This is just a layout for my room w/o the walls in the picture. I did the original drawing over a pdf version of my house plans, worked pretty cool. Just used the scale tool or measure tool to set the scale on the model. I will be changing the door swing to go out instead of in. I did not include the candy/popcorn bar I will be building in the nook to the left of the screen near the front.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Now I am searching down soundproofing solutions, I am trying to connect with a couple different people I'll let you know how that goes. Got my design submitted at one Inet place and trying to connect to somebody from HTD. Were just not lining up on our timing to well. 

Need to get some sort of a budget so I know what level to build the soundproofing to. Some changes to the design are that I am most likely moving my electronic server rack to my electrical room. I lost out on not running any plumbing above my ceiling, I have a bathroom above. Builder is being a pain to communicate with, at least we are not pressured *yet* to have to move in. Its been so cold, about -20C here for the last week or two, and there is not even a temp door on the front of my house, but the windows are in. No gas coming to the property, I tried to get him to put it in a few times while it was just fall, but I guess he did not think we needed it. I can't really pull my wires when its this cold, so have to see what he has planeed.

I also got a new job which is going to have me commute to a different city 4 days a week, so harder to make sure everything goes up/in right and get the stuff I need done completed. Good think the wife is so organised! she really makes up for me ;c)


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

.
Ok third time the charm.... tried to post two messages yesterday and I lost them, webpage locked up... I'll see if I have learned a bit.. .I'll type parts of this in word and see if I get luckier. 

Sorry been so long since my last post, life has gotten crazy, I applied and got a new job and now have to travel 500 Km’s or 300 miles North each week from Sunday to Thursday, and work from Edmonton, Alberta’s capital, but I’m sure you get a lot of people arguing Calgary should be Alberta’s capital 

At any rate back to my build, I am building just more than a HT room, I am also putting in full house Audio and have spent the last two Saturday’s and Sunday mornings pulling wire at my house with some help from a couple friends last Saturday, my Wife part of this Saturday (and yes it actually went well and was fun, good for her to see what goes into it all) and Sunday wrangled up one other volunteer. 

I have decided to go with  HTD for my home system. It’s their advanced 6 zone system. For the price I think it’s a great valued product, there are a few things I don’t like about it but looking forward to have it shipped to me. 

Below is the home we are building, and the system I am installing for it. The first picture is of my first floor, and the second is the second floor. The second floor is where my HT room is going and no speakers or anything is marked on there. This is just the HTD system. 

Main Floor:









Second Floor:









I will be driving the outside speakers off the back deck and the speakers in the garage with an old Sony head unit that I was using up until I purchased my Onkyo 3007 for my HT room. The Master bedroom will be a 5.1 system driven by a smaller Onkyo Amp HT RC 270. 

The photo below is looking form inside the HT room to where my wires are being run to, there is still more wires to be pulled. In that group I have Ethernet (Cat6), speaker, COAX, there will be HDMI etc. Going to be a headache setting it all up, even though the wires have all been marked. 










This one is a close up of the rat nest, I really hope that air exchanger not throw a lot of EM noise or it could be a really bad day. 










A main run of some low voltage wires, I have lots of wiring to clean up make sure the runs are away from anything metal etc. and supported. *Anybody know if I should put some insulation between my wires and where they run under heater vent duct work??? *




















Here is the Master Bedroom; that is the wife that snuck in the picture, it’s a good thing she is putting up with all of this :bigsmile The second shot is the rear surround speakers in the ceiling. 








I still have a wall mounted subwoofer to wire on the front wall.











So this kind of gets you all back up to speed where I am currently, I am still waiting on my contractor to order the sound proofing stuff I have asked him to get for me online, but he’s a little slow =c( and does not listen well. He put tin venting above my HT room and did not get them to put in flex venting, let’s hope it does not ring like a bell. I guess there is only so much you can do when you’re not the one in full control of the build. 

Next Saturday, Sunday for the long weekend I will be pulling more wires, adding mounting plates, taking measurements in case the drywallers don’t cut out my rings, marking on the floor where all my mounting rings are. Testing wires… * anybody know a good way to check way to many wires to make sure they are good before the walls get put on? * checking, and double checking to make sure I have everything laid out correctly…oh ya and if there is time pull wires for the HT room……

Till next time take care.
-NV


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

For checking wires, I have a little 9V battery connected to alligator clips that I hook on one end of the wire, and then go to the other end with a multimeter and check to see if I'm getting ~9V.

I used the HTD in-wall speakers in my living room and master bedroom, no complaints.


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## fitzwaddle (Aug 25, 2010)

rder:


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Well its been quite a while since I have posted. Been crazy busy with my new job, has me running out of town 5 days as week so not alot of time to dedicate to the HT, as well the Builder has been a complete nightmare, I sure wish I could go back 8 or 10 months in the past, there be alot of things done differently.

Anyways the room has progressed some, since I have been out of town I have had to rely on the builder to do some stuff for me, and it has not been done really right all the time, there is a saying, if you want something done right, you need to do it yourself.... and it defiantly goes with building one of these projects. As well I have had to cut back on some stuff, the Tray Ceiling with the Star Ceiling is out for now, I have it wired for it atm, but not in the budget sadly enough =c(.

First two pictures shows the sound channel I put up, I used the Genie Clips, seemed to work quite well and very solid. I spaced the ceiling channel so it would support up to 3 layers of dry wall. I have a double layer of drywall all around the room, but wanted to be able to build the details on my ceiling at a later date. I was able to put most of this up as I had a few days off and got it ready. I ordered the genie clips online and got a pretty decent deal. I did short my self a few, did not calculate enough of them and the builder said he would order the extras for me since I was out of town. I gave him the link to the site, but he ordered them out of Canada and I got raped on them. He paid about twice as much for 50, then what I got 175 for... I was pretty upset. (Back to that old adage, if it needs to be done right, do it yourself)



















All the walls were insulated before the double sheet of drywall went up, but he was not going to do that, luckily I had a friend on site ( finish carpenter ) who told him that was what I wanted and it needed to be done. 

This fist one will be where my riser for my back bar will be and the row of comfy seats. I would like to get 3 or 4 seats that have a butt kicker in them and possible power recline, wiring up the stage for power etc just in case. 










Next photo is where my Screen will go, I have the room wired for up to 9.2 sound, but I think I will to 7.2, I read my Onkyo AMP has a A and B setting. I can set B for 'serious music listening' ( I assume I can bridge the front speakers just not sure what really to do with it. So if anybody knows about how to set my Onkyo 3007 up that way let me know please .










This is the ceiling I will have to build later, I really like the design, we are getting the valances put in though.

This is the design I want to finish in the future....









And this is where I am going..









Has been alot of compromises along the way... and one compromise I did not intend to make was on the GG. I explained how to do the Green Glue and was told that he had done this type of application before. I ordered three buckets of GG, and two should of been used at minimum. When I returned from work after being a way for a week, there was still two buckets unused.. again... if you want it done right..... ARG I need more time at home. I figured they achieved minimum coverage ( 1 tube per sheet ) so I'll only get about 70% effectiveness. Hope the double 1/2 sheet, plus Gennie clips and single GG will give me some good noise isolation from the rest of the house... fingers crossed.

-NV

OH ya, one last thing, I purchased a reusable glue gun, (speed loader) after I returned from my week at work I found my speed loader in the basement HT room and it was still full of GG, I was pretty upset, I'll have to use the word upset, because the other word got changed to moo.... Got it cleaned out, but common guys, if the tool looks like it could be a bit expensive, and the owner lets you use it, clean the moo'n thing


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

looking good.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Got some more done, I'll post up some pictures below. I agree somebody said its a sickness, I'm already thinking of redoing some stuff.... in a couple years... wife just does not know it yet.. she is not big on suprises  so have to see how it goes.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Ok, lost all my hard work again, going to post the pics, save and work around that. Write a little, save a little..  

This is the mess I have created, I have run about 5 - 6000 feet of cable throughout this house. I have pulled most of it (with the help of some friends) in cold Canadian winter weather. I was quite concerned that I may have ruined many of the wires because it was below freezing, but it appears we were careful enough and the all are good!! 

This photo though is much more recent, this is the doorway located on the back wall on the right hand side of the HT room. Not great for noise transfer as I have been finding, but I will figure out a way to make it work. We are living on a acerage and this is my mechanical room, so we have water pump, lift pumps, sump pumps all located here. I was hoping that the double layer of drywall with green glue would help reduce the noise. I will have to work on tweaking it just a bit better. The insualation there went in the walls all around the HT room

The big grey panel you see on the left of the picture sitting on the floor is from my full height networking cabinet that I will be mounting everything in, only problem is that I don't think its big enough lol..... will have to make it work. 










This is me starting to figure out the mess. We marked the cables as we pulled them, I even talked to my friends on how we were going to do it, but it was cold, they saw the 8 boxes of cable I brought down stairs and they just wanted to get it done. I really have to thank them because w/o them it would have been an extremly painful thing to complete because we were not fully framed in (but almost) when we were pulling the wire and snow was on the ground and even some in the house.

Ended up doing alot of terminating and testing lots of lines. Spend 3/4 of a week just terminating cables, testing, checking, and organizing. If I ever do this again will have to come up with a better system  










I am starting to punch down the wires in my punch down blocks. I purchased a 12 and 24 punch down block for the ethernet cables running through the house. I spend about 3/4 of a week terminating, testing, and doing a small test run of the house system. All the spots on the wire are from the painter, the builder etc, I read I should have covered all my wires in plastic, I wish I did. If your wanting to keep your wires prestine, make sure you cover them... DO IT!!!  I did trim all the loose wires on the block that are currently freyed on both ends to a nice clean install. 










Here is a shot of the punch down block where I cleaned up all the wires on the top.










And this is what they looked like on the bottom untill I made it look nice. This is really the first time I have done anything like this, I am glad I over built each room ( went wire crazy ) since I pulled the wire myself I over pulled and have lots of room for expansion in the future. Also I hope if new connections come out in the future they will be ethernet compatible and I can just use the extra ends I pulled. I ran Cat 6 through out the house.










Still installing and connecting wires, this is far from completed, but I am trying to keep it pretty neat at this point so its easier to make it look clean. But there is still so much to connect in the cabinet. The keys hanging there are connected to my USB memory stick which is pluged into my HTD system that is at this moment playing music throughout the house. Was cool to press the button for the first time in each of the 6 zone and power them up. I got a huge kick when I fired up the first zone and it actually worked and played music!!!










Here are both punch down blocks and making use of them. Its nice because now if I ever need to run anything to any room in the house where I have cable, its just a matter of plugging into this block.










This is the 'beverage center' for downstairs. The door that is wide open is the entrance to the HT room and the wall plate above the door is where I have wired in that extra ethernet for my future sign to go up on. The door is a solid core door with the hopes of keeping the sound both in the room while playing movies, and out when playing movies :hsd:










This is taken from the back riser, I ended up building a raised bar for people to sit at. We can put 4 - 6 stools back there, and we have ordered 4 black leather theater chairs to go in front. Just waiting for them to arrive. I have set the room up for 9.2 sound, but think I will run 7.2 Max, I have a Onkyo Onkyo-TX-NR3007 that I will be adding to the top shelf of the sever rack. Its a heavy beast and makes lots of heat, so I want it at the top so the heat will escape and not heat up everything else in the rack as the heat rises. On a side note, this is supose to have a A and B setting, I would like to be able to play my sound ins 7.2 while watching movies and then put it on setting B for some serious music listening. I have 2 sets of some pretty decent towers, that I will have in the front of the room to play music with.

Not sure if I goofed up or not, but I put the front speaker jacks based on centering them to the middle listener in the HT room, so they are offset, but I should of centered them to the screen. Good thing wire is flexible and will allow me to move the speakers to the left a bit.










This is the back raised bar where I have room for 4 people or so to sit at. I'm a bit worried about sound reflections but will have to see what it will sound like once its all running. I will have 4 leather seats in front which hopefully will absorb much of the sound waves and not allow many reflections??? I wired up a few outlets just in case I want to put some butt kickers in each chair.  Just to the right of the picture is the evil mechanical room. But then again if I get it loud enough =c)










Have a pretty cool wife, she had the cabinet maker put in a cabinet in the room for me where we can put some candies and stuff. She also suprised me and got a popcorn maker. She tries to sound like she may not like all the money and time spent on the room, but I think secretly she is pretty impressed and wants to watch a movie or two in here.


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## phodee6 (Feb 11, 2010)

awesome, looking good! looking forward to seeing the compete finished build. it looks like you may be missing one thing and that may be a mixer and two turntables.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

phodee6 said:


> awesome, looking good! looking forward to seeing the compete finished build. it looks like you may be missing one thing and that may be a mixer and two turntables.


Thank you Phodee, always room for it up in the back... a HT room can play some music as well. I use to DJ years ago who knows... Its not as fancy as I wanted, some of the rooms on here are quite extreme, but it will do me...at least for a while  :spend:


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## Quijibo (Feb 8, 2011)

that room is really coming together nicely.
Keep it up!


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## Mightywetfoot (Dec 5, 2007)

That's awful about all your issues with your contractor but so far it all looks great.


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Speaker Wall - Here is a photo of the Speakers I will be putting behind my screen that I will be getting from Projector People. I have decided to put up an economy screen ( Not the one below lol ) but it is an AT screen and the sales person at PP says it displays well and the colors are good off of it. If anybody has used the AccuScreens let me know. I am getting the 52" * 92.5" - 106" diagonal screen. Price is right, and its a cloth screen so no perforations to get in the way.











******* Screen - So here is my temporary Red Neck screen. Its a bed sheet, watched a few movies on it already, the screen I am getting above will be a little smaller then what the test screen displays on here by about 5 - 7 inches. Humm ******* screen, maybe I could call this the ******* Theater, still not sure what I want to call this. Any ideas just shoot them out... 










Makeshift Movie Shelf - Just that, a place to put our movies in ATM. Even a few old VHS's from the kids old Disney Cartoons they use to watch.










Popcorn Machine - Wife got me this, used it a few times, makes the room smell like a Large Theater, pretty cool! She even got some really cool popcorn bowls and plastic (paper style) popcorn containers.










New Chairs - While I was out of town working these got delivered, pretty excited to see them, setting them up was kind of a pain in the . Still thinking of getting the butt kickers to install in them. Have to see why the base speakers are not working probably the wiring, have some connectors coming from MONOPRICE.com










New Chairs Set up - Here they are set up, looks pretty sweet, only problem is that the rear bar is to high, and if I put up the rear speakers they will cut off the site line for the sound from the rear speakers... ARG... .


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## 4U2NVME (Aug 20, 2010)

Mightywetfoot said:


> That's awful about all your issues with your contractor but so far it all looks great.


Tell me about it MIghtywetfoot, still having issues, but hope to be done with it all soon. I can't believe the we are still going though. :boxer: 

Thanks for the complement, getting closer...


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