# Noob with a Question? Onkyo/Denon



## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

Long time lurker, first time poster,

Hello I'm new to Home Theater and have almost, I think lol, figured out what I am going to go with. Problem now is the heart of the system. I'm not sure what to go with, the Onkyo 609 or the Denon 1911?? Or another suggestion. I would like to keep it under 500, prefer under 400. I'm just to new to know what the differences are and what have the specs even mean??? I know what I would like and that is a zone 2 to play speakers outside, and to be pretty future proof. I like the idea of streaming to the reciever but that is not a deal breaker. I thought speakers were going to be the hard part and it took me a good 6 months to figure what I wanted.

Suggestions on a reciever greatly appreciated. I will be getting the Ascend setup for speakers with just the front three for now CMT-340's and the CMT-340c. I still havent figured out a sub yet so help with that would be aprreciated also. I am either running no sub for now ao need one under 200$ was looking at the bic H 100.

Not sure if the Denon or the Onkyo will make any difference running the Ascends or not, I just figure from what I know either will suffice. I'm open to other models or brands than the 609 and 1911. Guess Im looking for the "bang for the buck"

Thanks for your inputs! Great site!!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The latest Onkyo 600 Series now that they are THX Select2 Certified have really stepped up their Amplifier Stages. The 608 was the most popular AVR in the US, Europe, Australia, and I even think Asia for a reason.
Especially if considering not using a Subwoofer, I would want the most possible power. I really like Denon, but at this pricepoint, I cannot advocate the 1912 over the 609.

Also for less than $200 Dollars (decent bit less) you can get the Dayton Sub 120 from Parts Express and it is a fantastic value. Really might be worth a look.
Cheers,
JJ


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Shack.

I agree with Jack. I have a Denon myself and it's a great receiver but with the ones you're looking at the Onkyo is going to deliver more bang for your buck. I was also going to recommend the Dayton sub. If you are amenable to a factory reconditioned receiver you could pick up an Onkyo 609 and the Dayton sub for under $500.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome to the forum! I'm not familiar with the Denon, so I can't recommend one over the other. I can tell you that I'm using an Onkyo (TX-NR 808) with Ascend 340's L/C/R and it sounds terrific!

I'm curious why you're looking to run a 3.1 system instead of a 5.1 or 7.1? Is it a space or budget limitation? If it's budget, start saving your pennies. The surround environment is so much more expansive. It's just amazing how it adds to the enjoyment of movies. The Ascend HTM-200 SE would blend perfectly with your 340's. I run 340's L/C/R, 170's as side surrounds and HTM-200's as back surrounds. They are amazing little speakers. 

I'd almost suggest you add surrounds before the sub. It's a toss up which should come first, especially since the 340's have good (but not LFE) bass.


Look at the BIC F-12. That may be just what you need. I've read some reviews and it seems to be a great budget sub. It's limitations seem to be at the upper frequency range, but that is not a factor since you're using 340's as your mains. Also, it doesn't dig real deep (down 4db @25 hz), so the very low LFE effects won't be heard. It doesn't seem to have a very flat response, but Audyssey can help iron that out. Also, if you play action movies that have a lot of LFE, it's probably going to run out of gas, especially if used in a big room. It also probably won't be a great sub for music. 

The BIC is a good subwoofer for the price, but compared to more serious subwoofers from Hsu, SVS, Rhythmik, etc., it's only a mediocre performer. Sadly, you've got to get in the $600+ range. I have a SVS PB-12 NSD, which measures flat to 18hz in my dedicated home theater. The difference in a sub like this and and entry level sub is truly amazing.


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

Thank you all for your recomendations, been reading more and more and I think I may go with the Denon just cause of the Airplay and advanced Audyssey. Anyone have experience with the Airplay??

Dougmac, I'm also thinking about switching and going with the 170 L/R and 340 C with 200 surrounds for now and if i even need more upgrading to the 340 L/R later. I heard the 170's really pack a punch and the 340's may be overkill for my 12X12 room?? Will I "need" a sub right away if I go this route?

Thanks again!


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

QuackAttack said:


> Thank you all for your recomendations, been reading more and more and I think I may go with the Denon just cause of the Airplay and advanced Audyssey. Anyone have experience with the Airplay??
> 
> Dougmac, I'm also thinking about switching and going with the 170 L/R and 340 C with 200 surrounds for now and if i even need more upgrading to the 340 L/R later. I heard the 170's really pack a punch and the 340's may be overkill for my 12X12 room?? Will I "need" a sub right away if I go this route?
> 
> Thanks again!


The 170's are up to the task in your 12x12 room. I think this is an excellent option.

With this option, though, you lose a little low frequency compared to 340's at least as depicted by the measurements on the Ascend web site. 

For me, in addition to excellent main sound, home theater is significantly enhanced by surround and LFE. Without both, you're missing part of the experience. LFE resides at frequencies lower than 170's or even 340's can faithfully produce. I'd go for the <$200 BIC over nothing at all. However, if circumstances dictate, I'd favor getting surrounds first and than add the sub.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I feedback you have been given is very good.
While the quality of the surround speakers does make a difference it does not make as much of a difference as the quality of the front three speakers.
I would put as much of the budget as you can there and pick up some very inexpensive speakers to use for the surrounds.
If you have an old getto blaster with detachable speakers those would even suffice as surround spekaers until you can add better ones later.
Parts Express is a site worth visiting, they will have inexpensive speakers that you can use as surrounds and the Dayton sub that was already mentioned gets good reviews for an entry level sub woofer.
I don't feel strongly one way or the other on the two AVR's pick the one that has the features you like best. The Onkyo has two USB ports and it is also wireless with a $39 adapter.
Some people put no stock in the THX certification, between these two AVRs that would sway me towards the Onkyo.


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

As of now this is what I have decided:

Ascend CBM-170 SE L/R
Ascend CBM-340C SE Center
BIC-F12
Denon AVR 2112

Plan on adding either HTM-200's later or moving the 170's back and getting 340's for L/R

Still not positive on my sub choice??

I think this should be a great first system for myself, opinions and recomendations for changes welcome!

Thanks again for your help


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I am curious as to why you have chosen the Denon over the Onkyo given all the pros with going with Onkyo?


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> I am curious as to why you have chosen the Denon over the Onkyo given all the pros with going with Onkyo?


I think mostly due to Audyssey MultiEQ XT and the Airplay sounds interesting. Otherwise I just took a shot in the dark. Any reasons to take the Onkyo over the Denon??


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Picking the AVR for features you like is probably the best route to take.
I thought about getting a networked AVR before deciding to save the money.
What does the AirPlay do, what will it interface with ?
Is it Bluetooth or WiFi ?


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

chashint said:


> Picking the AVR for features you like is probably the best route to take.
> I thought about getting a networked AVR before deciding to save the money.
> What does the AirPlay do, what will it interface with ?
> Is it Bluetooth or WiFi ?


Airplay lets you play your Ios device directly to the reciever via wi-fi


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

Whats everyones opinion on the HSU STF-1 vs the BIC f-12?? possibley even stepping up to the STF-2 if its worth the extra dollars. Is the STF-1 at 254$ worth 100$ more than the BIC F-12. 

DougMac?? any preference in budget subs with the Ascends??? Also, do you know how long it takes to post on the Ascend forum? I registered but still can't post??


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

QuackAttack said:


> I think mostly due to Audyssey MultiEQ XT and the Airplay sounds interesting. Otherwise I just took a shot in the dark. Any reasons to take the Onkyo over the Denon??


Higher power output, more features including THX surround modes that are very useful, Better upscaling of DVDs and other non HD video.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The 609 was recently Bench Tested by Home Theater Magazine. It output around 90 Watts into 5/7 Channels which is utterly fantastic for an AVR that price. For instance, when the Pioneer VSX-1019 was Bench Tested, it output 28.7 Watts into 5/7 Channels.

While I do agree that MultEQ XT is amazing, when looking at AVR's without Preamp Outputs, I would definitely get the one with the most possible power as adding an Outboard Amplifier is next to impossible.
Cheers,
JJ


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

QuackAttack said:


> Whats everyones opinion on the HSU STF-1 vs the BIC f-12?? possibley even stepping up to the STF-2 if its worth the extra dollars. Is the STF-1 at 254$ worth 100$ more than the BIC F-12.
> 
> DougMac?? any preference in budget subs with the Ascends??? Also, do you know how long it takes to post on the Ascend forum? I registered but still can't post??


Can I entice you to add another $100 and go for the STF-2?  That's just two tanks of gas or a month's worth of eating fast food for lunch! 

I'd go with the Hsu over the BIC. Can you post at Ascend yet? I can't remember, it didn't take longer than a day or so. 

While I'm spending your money, you could bump up to the Onkyo TX-NR 709 and get multi-eq and other goodies. It's $100 (again) more than the Denon. 

BTW, I use my PS3 for connection to my Windows 7 computer to play music. I started wireless, but ran ethernet to my HT equipment closet and I'm hard wired now. It works great!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Accessories4less has this Onkyo 709 for $529


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

DougMac said:


> Can I entice you to add another $100 and go for the STF-2?  That's just two tanks of gas or a month's worth of eating fast food for lunch!
> 
> I'd go with the Hsu over the BIC. Can you post at Ascend yet? I can't remember, it didn't take longer than a day or so.
> 
> ...


Dave emailed me about B-stock and I asked him about posting, he said he would look into it, he also agrees and said the HSU STF-2 would be the best choice

Now I pretty much have the speakers set with help from here and especially Dave over at Ascend, if anybody is deciding weather or not to go with Ascend VS some other brand. Customer service is enough to sway in the direction of Ascend Big question now is weather I go with the 2112 or the 709??? Decisions Decisions???


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

Alright, more confused???

What do I lose or gain by going with an 8 series such as the 708 vs the 609/709 or 2112?

I dont think airplay is really an issue so that leaves just the MultEQ XT in the 2112 over the 609..

I didnt think this would be so confusing lol


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The 709 uses a better video chip for upscaling than the 708 and has Pre-Outs for hooking up an external amp if you ever want a little more power (a very nice option to have). And again a fair bit more power than the Denon


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> The 709 uses a better video chip for upscaling than the 708 and has Pre-Outs for hooking up an external amp if you ever want a little more power (a very nice option to have). And again a fair bit more power than the Denon


Sorry for all the questions, I'm on deployment and would like to have all this complete before I return so its waiting for me

Will be used for 50/50 home theater, Ascend 340's.

Don't really care if I have Airplay
New at this and think the best Audeysey would serve me well
Looking for the "best bang for the buck" really 

Im really not sure what to look for

Acesories 4less

608- 297.99
708- 389.99
808- 499.99
609- 329.99 
709- 529.99

DakMart

1912- 389.98
2112- 429.98 
2312- 529.98

**edit** Alright I need to quit looking and buy, What is the HT-RC+++ compared to the TR-SR+++????? I cant seem to really see a difference??

really like the price of the 708 and 1912, is the extra dollars worth the other recievers??it is a pretty good jump to the 709/2312 and for my needs not sure if its worth it. 

Guess I just need somebody to spend my money for me lol.

Opinions GREATLY appreciated

Thanks again for a great site


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

After writing all the numbers down next to each other, Its starting to look hard not to choose the 609 for 329.99, unless Im missing somthing sombody talk me out of it lol. Although I'm still not sure what the deal with the HT-RC++ recievers are?


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

QuackAttack said:


> After writing all the numbers down next to each other, Its starting to look hard not to choose the 609 for 329.99, unless Im missing somthing sombody talk me out of it lol.


First, thanks for your service! I wear a red shirt every Friday.

Go to the Onkyo site. They have a nifty tool that allows you to compare specs between models. The biggest difference between the 609 and 709 is power (not a big deal with Ascends), pre-outs to use with external amps (709 has them, 609 doesn't) and Audyssey Multi-EQ vs Audyssey 2EQ. The Audyssey difference might be important. With Multi-EQ, you can adjust after it tests. I needed to do that because it came up with a non-standard, low (40hz) crossover to sub. It made a big difference in sound when I tweaked the settings. I don't know if you can tweak with 2-EQ. 

The $200 difference is substantial.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The 609 is really an excellent AVR with excellent Bench Tested Power into 5/7 Channels. What you are missing compared to the 2112 or 709 is that the 609 only offers Audyssey 2EQ. With 2EQ, there is no Filtering on the Subwoofer whereas with MultEQ the Subwoofer is a priority. In addition, the 700 Series Onkyos offer Preamp Outputs which is important for many.
Cheers,
JJ


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

DougMac said:


> First, thanks for your service! I wear a red shirt every Friday.
> 
> Go to the Onkyo site. They have a nifty tool that allows you to compare specs between models. The biggest difference between the 609 and 709 is power (not a big deal with Ascends), pre-outs to use with external amps (709 has them, 609 doesn't) and Audyssey Multi-EQ vs Audyssey 2EQ. The Audyssey difference might be important. With Multi-EQ, you can adjust after it tests. I needed to do that because it came up with a non-standard, low (40hz) crossover to sub. It made a big difference in sound when I tweaked the settings. I don't know if you can tweak with 2-EQ.
> 
> The $200 difference is substantial.


I spend WAY too much of my time on the Onkyo site lol. Guess I really need to decide if Multi-EQ is worth 200 extra dollars:dontknow:, thats pretty close to a STF-2?? I'm not sure if I will ever use the pre-outs but I guess you never know. I need to find a deal on the 709 then not worry about it I guessonder: With my non-audiophile ears wil the Multi-EQ make that much difference:dontknow: 

After talking to Dave, I will 99% of a chance anyway, be going with the 340 L/R/C with the 200's. And adding the STF-2 later:bigsmile:



Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The 609 is really an excellent AVR with excellent Bench Tested Power into 5/7 Channels. What you are missing compared to the 2112 or 709 is that the 609 only offers Audyssey 2EQ. With 2EQ, there is no Filtering on the Subwoofer whereas with MultEQ the Subwoofer is a priority. In addition, the 700 Series Onkyos offer Preamp Outputs which is important for many.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Is Multi-EQ that much better?


Guess maybe I should just say screw it a get the 709, What is the equivelent in the HT-RC series, the 370? and is it any cheaper? I know you lose a HDMI and some other stuff that I dont know what it does like RF extension or something....

If Multi EQ is that much better and pre-outs which the 609 does not have the 709 does for 200 more, or back to the Denon 2112 for 100 more than the 609. Seems the 2112 and the 709 are pretty close in options:dontknow: Was pretty set on Onkyo when I first started this. Is the 709 worth 100 more dollars than the 2112 and the 2112 over the 609?? 

Thanks again for all your inputs, you think I have questions now, wait until I am setting all this up


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The big thing with MultEQ is Subwoofer Filtering. On MultEQ XT, Audyssey places a priority on the Subwoofer Channel in respect to the Subwoofer Channel in terms of processing power. As many believe that the Subwoofer is the transducer that most benefits from something like Audyssey....

The fact the 709 also offers Preamp Outputs as well is also huge to me. This gives you future flexibility should you decide to upgrade to harder to drive Speakers and or change to a larger Room and need an Outboard Amplifier for them to sound their best.
Cheers,
JJ


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

I can't add much to what Jungle Jack said, good post. I can't speak from experience about Onkyo vs. Denon, except than to refer to an earlier post that indicates Onkyo's power ratings were more accurate when the receivers were independently tested. I see more compliments on the Onkyo's sound than I do the Denon's. Speaking of power, I bought my TX-NR 808 because of the pre-outs. I had plans to use a separate amp for L/C/R. I put the external amp on hold because the Onkyo more than meets my needs.


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## tobe (Sep 21, 2011)

Hi all, I has just recently joined this forum and is a total Noob with home theater system.
I saw the Onkyo 5.1 770W Home Theatre System with iPod Dock (HTS7400) at 588 CAD right now at Visions.
Is it a good system to start with? It is hard to get any review of that system.

Any suggestion for a brand new beginner like me ? 
I have around 500-600 to spare. Ok with 2.1 system for now (slowly upgrade), 3d not really needed.

I live in Edmonton and prefer to come and check the system out myself b4 making decisions.
Any particular store should I know as a "must visit" ?

Thanks a lots guys!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi there from a fellow Edmontonian, Onkyo has one of the best HTIB systems and for the money its hard to do better. Although I am not a fan of Visions they seem to have some decent deals on things the last few months.

Welcome to the Shack and enjoy your stay.


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## QuackAttack (Sep 15, 2011)

DougMac said:


> I can't add much to what Jungle Jack said, good post. I can't speak from experience about Onkyo vs. Denon, except than to refer to an earlier post that indicates Onkyo's power ratings were more accurate when the receivers were independently tested. I see more compliments on the Onkyo's sound than I do the Denon's. Speaking of power, I bought my TX-NR 808 because of the pre-outs. I had plans to use a separate amp for L/C/R. I put the external amp on hold because the Onkyo more than meets my needs.


I would have already bought the 609, just wondering if ill be disapointed with the 2EQ and should just get the 2112 with pre-outs and MultiQ Ex?? The 709 would be perfect just dont know if the extra 200$ over the 609 is worth it. 2112 is right in the middle. Dont need to buy it now, im not even home so maybe Ill wait and see if the 709 drops in price


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Check out Newegg this Weekend as they often have great savings on Onkyos during the Weekend. And they are a Factory Authorized Dealer. AC4L is more than likely the cheapest, but it will be Refurbished. I personally do find MultEQ to be a good bit more effective due to what it does on the Subwoofer. However, it is certainly a good bit more expensive for the 709 and I would probably get the 609 over the 2112 due to the Measured Power with the 609.
Cheers,
JJ


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