# Pro Audio Amps



## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

A general "run it up the flag pole and see who salutes.." kind of question...

I'm thinking of adding an infinite baffle sub to my hopefullysoontobemade listening room. In fact, that's what led me here in the first place, getting a BFD and calibrating it with REW. Anyway, still trying to find all the parts -- amp, bfd and drivers -- and have a question about two different pro audio amps I can get for a reasonable price.

The first is a Nady XA-1100 -- I can find it for about $210
The other is a Behringer EP1500 -- I can find that one for about $230-$240

Anyone have any thoughts on which one would end up working better?

The room will be small, and I'll PROBABLY be starting off with only two 15" drivers and MAYBE upgrading to four at some point.

JCD


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Ordinarily I’m leery of cheap pro amps; I’ve heard of some that died in home theater use, which is inexcusable since home use is a gravy-train application compared to what they’re supposed to be designed for.

However, the reviews from DJs, musicians and even sound system operators at Musician’s Friend show pretty much universal praise for both amps. Some of them have been using them for a number of years, so you’re probably fine with either one. The only complaint I saw registered that’s highly relevant to home theater users is noisy fans. 

The factory power ratings are EIA (@ 1kHz), not the FTC (@ 20Hz-20kHz) ratings that most home amps use. EIA rating is a less difficult standard and as such can be up to 20% higher than FTC, so keep that in mind. Also, make sure the amp you pick will support all four of the drivers you’ve selected.

Here are links to the Musician’s Friend reviews:
Behringer
Nady

Regards,
Wayne


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

I'm happy with my Mackie M1400 (now only avail used --- eBay around $300). I ended up with it because I like the linear adjustable high pass (rumble) filter 10Hz to 170 Hz. I'm using it now bridged into 4 ohms. It is supposed to be capable of 1400 watts in that mode (I only "need" 1000)  


BTW most pro amps need help quieting down their fans. I put a 130 ohm 5W resistor in series with the Mackie's 24 Vdc Panaflo fan and that did the trick for me. A lot of people have done a similar modification (100 ohm 10 watt rating) to Crown XLS pro amps.

Bob


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Well, after all the questions.. ok, just _question_.. turns out I found a used Crown XLS 602 for a couple of c-notes. Figured, I couldn't beat that deal. :T 

Also found a BFD -- picked it up at a discount since it wasn't totally new. It's supposed to be "never used". Whether or not it's true, it LOOKS pretty darned new.  

Now, that I've found my amp and my BFD, I now need to decide on the drivers for my IB setup. That and of course the whole construction of my "listening" room.  

JCD


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Tumults?

Sounds like the fun is about to begin.


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## bricor (Apr 27, 2006)

Congrats.

IB drivers are somewhat scarce right now, but hopefully there will be more of a selection in a few months.

I use a Crown 402 to drive my IB. A while back I had 6 or 7 guys over and we did a comparison of the Crown 402 and a Parasound Halo A51 ($4k) in 2 channel only. I'd read all the hoopla about how bad pro amps sound and since I had them sitting there....
It was definitly eye opening. There was very little difference in sound between the 2 amps. A few of my guests said they could tell no difference and the rest thought they could but admitted they probably couldn't in a blind test. All agreed they'd never fork over the money for the Halo.
If you can control the fans or locate the amp in a different room, pro amps can be a great bargain.
I still use the crown for my subs and a more expensive amp (ATI 3007) for my speakers but there is more to good sound than buying a pricey name brand amp. 
In short, the crown will power an IB just fine.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

bricor said:


> Congrats.
> 
> IB drivers are somewhat scarce right now, but hopefully there will be more of a selection in a few months.
> 
> ...


But that Halo is sure one sexy piece of equipment.. 

Seriously though, I agree, an amp can only sound as good as the drivers they're connected to. 

I agree on the driver scarcity as well.. I may be in "luck" since I won't be able to install the IB for a while anyway. For a variety of reasons, the area where I plan to install is currently pack to the gills with stuff (my garage). I'm hoping to move forward with the project sometime in the coming month. By then, I'm hoping the drivers will become more available. I've also heard over on the IB forum that there may be some new affordable 18" drivers coming on the scene in the nearish future. I figure if I procrastinate long enough, I may get those.

How many drivers do you have in your IB? Which drivers did you go with? And how big is your space?

JCD


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## bricor (Apr 27, 2006)

When I built it, I used 4 of the Lambda IB15's that were $100 each. 
I then sold them and put in 4 of the Ascendant Audio Arsenal 15's. 
Room is 16'x17.5'x10.


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## Derek (Apr 29, 2006)

I've got four AE 15 IB powered by a pair 250w Parts Express plate amps. I'm going the pro amp direction soon though. The PE's are down 3 db @ 20Hz. As soon as I see the right Crown K2, it's mine :T 

You're gonna love having an IB.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

bricor said:


> When I built it, I used 4 of the Lambda IB15's that were $100 each.
> I then sold them and put in 4 of the Ascendant Audio Arsenal 15's.
> Room is 16'x17.5'x10.



Ahh, you must me a member of the Cult!

So, which do you like better and why? Enquiring minds want (need?) to know?

Due to buget constraints, I've been thinking about wimping out and getting two drivers instead of four until budgets permit. Did you try just two just for fun? And with 2 or 4, how did it fill your room?

JCD


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

bricor said:


> A while back I had 6 or 7 guys over and we did a comparison of the Crown 402 and a Parasound Halo A51 ($4k) in 2 channel only. I'd read all the hoopla about how bad pro amps sound and since I had them sitting there....
> It was definitly eye opening. There was very little difference in sound between the 2 amps. A few of my guests said they could tell no difference and the rest thought they could but admitted they probably couldn't in a blind test. All agreed they'd never fork over the money for the Halo.


The guy that I bought the amp from said he did the same thing -- i.e., did an A/B comparison with a Halo he was using. Couldn't tell the difference so he sold the Halo and bought more of the crown amps.

JCD


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Derek said:


> I've got four AE 15 IB powered by a pair 250w Parts Express plate amps. I'm going the pro amp direction soon though. The PE's are down 3 db @ 20Hz. As soon as I see the right Crown K2, it's mine :T
> 
> You're gonna love having an IB.


I've got one word for you.. Craigslist. That's where I ended up buying mine. You wait long enough, you'll find what you want at a good to great price. ESPECIALLY since you live in Campbell (I work in Campbell). 

Also, how do you like you're AE 15 IB drivers? I'm looking for an inexpensive driver with tight bass, that's musical, etc.. basically, I'm looking for the perfect driver for $1.68/driver! 

JCD


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## Sthrndream (Apr 21, 2006)

The Mackies are good stuff. I started out DIY bass in the 1990s and ended up with 3 M1200s, a Rane PE17, and a Phase Coupled Activator as my "subwoofer rack". You can see an old photo here...

http://hometown.aol.com/tvodhanel/myhomepage/LFE_rack.jpg

I don't use the M1200s much anymore, but they still all work great when needed. I think I paid $450 each(or there-abouts) back then(37.5 cents a watt).

Now, you can get the EP1500 for $250---18 cents a watt..

We've always had great luck with Samson amps too. We've sold hundreds of S700 and S1000s with our passive subs and reported problems have been VERY rare with our users. Thee had very quiet fans too. 

There was just a review of the EP1500 on audiocritic.com He found it to be an amazing value for the price.

Tom V.
SVS


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## Derek (Apr 29, 2006)

JCD, Yep.. Been looking at Craigslist (and Audiogon). Thanks. 

I love my IB. The AE 15's are about a year old now and they've never let me down. Although I did get nervous during WOW where ship comes out of the ground. Watching/Feeling four 15" drivers moving 1"-1.5" of excursion is scary on multiple levels  This is one of the reasons I want an amp with a higher dampning factor and lower power range. There's always gonna be a movie to top the last one.

Since you work in Campbell, you're always welcome to stop by one evening after work for a demo. $400 for an IB will tromp any boxed sub I've heard.


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## Derek (Apr 29, 2006)

BTW Music is what they do best.


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

My first HK (avr235) will be arriving some time in the next two weeks and I am already looking at alternatives for an external amp to power just the L and R channels. Pro amps definitely are cheaper, almost too much cheaper to be true.

Earlier on PE I spotted an this amp (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-605) for that price or cheaper you can get a Xls that will produce so much more power than the audiosource amp I linked at half the cost! It just confuses me...


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Derek said:


> Since you work in Campbell, you're always welcome to stop by one evening after work for a demo. $400 for an IB will tromp any boxed sub I've heard.


I will have to take you up on that sometime.. I've never heard one in real life, but have heard that they're the cat's meow!

JCD


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Exocer said:


> My first HK (avr235) will be arriving some time in the next two weeks and I am already looking at alternatives for an external amp to power just the L and R channels. Pro amps definitely are cheaper, almost too much cheaper to be true.
> 
> Earlier on PE I spotted an this amp (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=302-605) for that price or cheaper you can get a Xls that will produce so much more power than the audiosource amp I linked at half the cost! It just confuses me...


I think pro-audio amps are generally not as good as a regular home amp. Pro Audio equipment is designed to be loud, portable and rugged. Fidelity isn't as important for a pro-audio amp as it is for a home version. Also, Pro-Audio amps generally have loud fans, so for home use you'd have to disconnect the fan, slow down the fan or move the whole amp to another room.

I'm sure there are other more technical 'issues', but those are the ones I've heard mentioned.

JCD


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

I once had a Thermal Take HSF that sounded like a vaccum cleaner. Sounded pretty cool :laugh: I may be the only person that doesn't have a problem with fan noise. I do see what you're saying about SQ. There are just so many different opinions with positive and negative experiences regarding home applications of pro-amps...It can easily get confusing.


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## kingkip (Apr 20, 2006)

Lots of new drivers coming out in the near future from just about everyone it seems. Give it a little time, which it sounds like you have, and you'll find something good.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

kingkip said:


> Lots of new drivers coming out in the near future from just about everyone it seems. Give it a little time, which it sounds like you have, and you'll find something good.


I've heard the same.. but the wait is still killing me!:rant: 
Some of the stuff I've heard about is "still in development". Some is still backordered. I just hope everythings ready by the time I'm ready.

JCD


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## kingkip (Apr 20, 2006)

Oh yeah I forgot to mention that you probably won't hear any difference between amps at the freqs that an IB works at. I've tried it in a buddy's IB and we couldn't tell which was which. Now power on the other hand is a different story. Fan noise can definately be a problem, some of the pro-amps can be pretty noisy. Fortunately mine will be on the other side of the wall from the theater.


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## reed.hannebaum (Apr 21, 2006)

If you want one really cheap pro amp, look at Gem Sound. Be very cautious about this because the reviews are very mixed on this amp. You can buy a new XP-350 that is rated at 350W RMS bridged mono for $90 plus shipping. They make higher rated models as well. Of course this power rating is probably inflated or is measured at one frequency instead of the entire range, but it sure caught my eye. 

I found a guy on EBAY selling one NIB for $60 plus $15 shipping, so I bought it. Like all the reviews said it does have some AC hum and the fan noise is loud. But in my situation I have a sub I use strictly for movies that is in the back of my room away from my listening area. Also I can't hear the hum unless I put my ear right up to the sub driver.

The fan noise is no problem for me either. I put the amp in a cabinet and closed the door. It stays cool so there haven’t been any heat problems. As far as power, I can say based on listening at comparable volume settings that this amp is certainly more powerful than the 225W amp I was using, and it sounds good. When I first got it I hooked it up to a pair of bookshelf speakers just to see what it would sound like. It worked well at all listening levels across a wide range of music. I have only had this unit for a week, so I am keeping my fingers crossed that it doesn't fail me. But for $75 it can't be a great loss.


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