# Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC ??



## HoppeMSU (Dec 27, 2011)

First, thanks in advance for the advice. I am new to researching home audio, and have been lurking here for the better part of a year. I'm trying to put together a solid, budget home theater in my basement. All of the components are purchased and installed, except the sub. 

Here is the current equipment line up:

Receiver: Onkyo HT-RC360 7.2 
Mains: Monoprice #6816 -- 8 Inches Kevlar 3-Way High Power In-Wall Speaker - 80W Nominal, 160W Max 
Surround & Rear: Monoprice #4104 -- 8 Inches Kevlar 2-Way In-Ceiling Speakers (Pair) - 80W Nominal, 160W Max 

I absolutely love woodworking, building cabinetry, and DIY work generally. However, a DIY sub just isn't possible right now. I'm still building out an entire kitchen for the basement project.

*What would you recommend for a decent budget sub that is going to last a few years in the interim until I can build a nice DIY sub or two*? Currently on my radar are:

(1) BIC America F12 ($200)
(2) Polk Audio PSW505 ($209)
(3) Lava Subs LSP12 ($338 - but if its significantly better, I would probably live with it for a few extra years).

The sub will be located and hidden inside of a built in cabinet. Doors can be opened as needed for movie viewing. Given the space, only one 12" sub could fit.

The room is large. The main listening area is 18 x 21, with 9' ceilings (3400 cu. ft.). It is open into a pool table room and bar, with 8' ceilings (about 4300 cu ft.). Total volume is about 8700 cu ft.

I'm not looking for bass that will shake the house, but just enough to sound deep and effective when watching movies, or listening to music at modest volumes.

Thanks!!!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

In that price range thats a good list to start with. Sadly quality subs dont really start until you hit about $500 so you dont have much choice but to go with one listed or DIY.
If your willing to go into the $300 range this Klipsch sub is a great deal


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

Welcome to the Forum. Have fun. Dennis


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*



HoppeMSU said:


> The sub will be located and hidden inside of a built in cabinet. Doors can be opened as needed for movie viewing. Given the space, only one 12" sub could fit.


Does the cabinet have an open back? If not, this would be an ill advised strategy. The amp is cooled using convection, which means it absolutely needs unimpeded space around the back. Anything short of that will definitely impact it's longevity, and could potentially lead to a worse situation.




HoppeMSU said:


> The room is large. The main listening area is 18 x 21, with 9' ceilings (3400 cu. ft.). It is open into a pool table room and bar, with 8' ceilings (about 4300 cu ft.). Total volume is about 8700 cu ft.
> 
> I'm not looking for bass that will shake the house, but just enough to sound deep and effective when watching movies, or listening to music at modest volumes.


There is simply no 12" subwoofer made that is going to work in such an environment. Dual 15's might suffice, or maybe even a single 18", but anything less will be completely overwhelmed by that volume of space. I think you would be better off waiting until you can go the DIY route, instead of spending money now on something that will probably be wasted.


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## yoda13 (Feb 14, 2012)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

of the 3 choices provided, the PW505 would be my choice followed by the F12. But really, to really get a true experience, you would need 2 of what you get.

The Klipsch RW-12d suggested by tonyvdb is a better performer than the 3 you suggested BUT, personally, 2 of the the ones I suggested above would be my choice over 1 Klipsch. Like Jim pointed out, you have a lot of space to pressurize.

Finally, 1 of these, can get very loud, is close to your budget and has a 15" driver vs a 12". Use the "make an offer" button to make an offer. I use to have 2 of it's little brother and really liked it. And they look good to boot.

cheers


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## HoppeMSU (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*



theJman said:


> Does the cabinet have an open back? If not, this would be an ill advised strategy. The amp is cooled using convection, which means it absolutely needs unimpeded space around the back. Anything short of that will definitely impact it's longevity, and could potentially lead to a worse situation.
> 
> There is simply no 12" subwoofer made that is going to work in such an environment. Dual 15's might suffice, or maybe even a single 18", but anything less will be completely overwhelmed by that volume of space. I think you would be better off waiting until you can go the DIY route, instead of spending money now on something that will probably be wasted.


Thanks for the thoughts! You guessed right that the sub will be placed inside of a base cabinet that is fully enclosed. I have some flexibility with the doors, and can either (1) leave them open while the stereo is in operation, or (2) if needed ultimately use fabric inserts on the doors. Also, it is possible to cut a vent into the right side of the cabinet if absolutely necessary.

Unfortunately, the room design and look dictate the maximum size and location of the sub here. I just can't do anything about it, and there isn't room for dual subs... 

An image of the built-in cabinets I've built is attached. The doors haven't been installed yet, but are already built. The sub will be in the lower right base cabinet. Internal dimensions are 31" wide x 18" deep x 24.5" tall. the other base cabinets are unavailable for a sub because they are needed for storage. 

I know this would be an unusual layout, but could the klipsch rw-12d or another front firing sub mentioned in the thread be placed sideways in the cabinet to fit? Doors would be open during operation.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

Very nice job on the cabinetry :T
placing it inside a cabinat is not ideal but we all have to make sacrifices in our setups to make things work. Sideways will be fine for sub placement as long as you as suggested have either the doors open when in use or a cloth grill in place in the doors as the sound will be trapped if the doors are closed. You will need to leave as much space in the front of the sub for the sound produced from the driver and ports to escape properly.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

Yeah, putting the sub inside of the cabinet is definitely not ideal. But, as Tony said, we all have limitations and/or situations that dictate placement.

Sounds like you have some good sub choices. My only advice (to add to this) is that you buy a sub isolator to put on the floor of your cabinet. This Auralex Gramma Pad is a good one... and you can pick one up for about $50 (I think I bought mine through BH Photo for about $35... but I don't see it on their site any more). Auralex makes another sub isolator called the Subdude. Both of these pads serve the same purpose, they are just marketed differently and are both made in different sizes. If you are interested, check both and get the one with the size closest to your needs (you could always buy one and make alterations to it in order to make it fit in your cabinet:T). I ended up with a Gramma Pad just because it came in a larger size than the Subdude and was a little cheaper.

Anyhow, this pad will decouple your sub from the floor of those beautiful cabinets you've built... and thus keep the sub/cabinet floor from rattling and vibrating due to contact. If you research the pads, some folks claim that the pads help to tighten up their bass (I talked to HSU Research about them and they said they weren't sure if that claim is valid or not) BUT more importantly, everyone (and I can vouch for this) has found that the pads truly get rid of unwanted floor vibrations through decoupling and isolation without effecting the performance of your sub.

Anyhow... might be worth an investment.:innocent:


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

Be aware that the Klipsch RW-12D has complaints of port noise issues when pushed hard.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

That is one beautiful room. Light colors are antithetical for HT -- dark are a better choice -- but either way, you've done a very nice job.



HoppeMSU said:


> I know this would be an unusual layout, but could the klipsch rw-12d or another front firing sub mentioned in the thread be placed sideways in the cabinet to fit? Doors would be open during operation.


Could you put it sideways? Yes. Should you? Definitely not the best choice. The driver and port are forward facing, so realistically that's how they should be pointed. As it is a single 12" sub is going to struggle mightily in a room that size. If you also place it's output perpendicular to the listeners you're going to exacerbate the problem. Personally, I wouldn't, but YMMV.

If you do opt to use that enclosure for sub placement the suggestion about the Gramma is a good one. Placing a sub in a confined area like that could lead to resonance. Isolating it would certainly help mitigate the issue.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

You know, subs aren't that bad looking when placed out in the room. Have you considered possibly rethinking your strategy and figuring out a way to get it out in the room? 

If you did, definitely do a sub crawl before you run wires though walls...


Just another thought... and this could be so far out there that it's not possible... but could the OP do a DIY sub that is built directly into his built-in? Basically making the cabinet space that will hold his stand-alone sub into the sub housing?

Ah... maybe not. But... it might just be possible????:whistling:


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## HoppeMSU (Dec 27, 2011)

*Re: Subwoofer Recommendation - LAVA / Polk / BIC / Oh my?!?*

I really like the idea of doing a DIY sub, however, I would prefer to not have it fully integrated into the cabinet. It would be nice to be able to remove it. with the size of the cabinets, it seems as though I could put at least a 15 inch, if not an 18 inch sub in the cabinet.


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## HoppeMSU (Dec 27, 2011)

OK, well loads of 18 hour days at work in a row have led to lots of daydreaming about my setup. A sub is basically just a plain old box, like a cabinet. I'm good at building those. Maybe I'll go with a DIY build. Cheap to start, then upgrade in the future. 

I can do only one sub for now. I'll post in the DIY forum!


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

Are you on a slab ? or is there a basement under that room? I am thinking IB set up with a couple grills on the on the floor in front of the room.


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## HoppeMSU (Dec 27, 2011)

fschris said:


> Are you on a slab ? or is there a basement under that room? I am thinking IB set up with a couple grills on the on the floor in front of the room.


Unfortunately, this is the basement. There is no room to go above, below, or next to the space, because all of it is already built out.

Inside of the lower right cabinet, identified in the picture, is the only place for a sub.


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