# Bookshelf Speakers, Subs and Reference Levels



## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

As some of you may know I prefer large floorstanders and a sub to bookshelf speakers and a sub. Many people are in the opposite camp so I'm trying to understand why. With some time to play around and experiment I've moved my bedroom system into my main listening/HT room and have several observations and questions.

System: 
Denon 3805
Acurus A250
RBH Sound MC-4C x 2
RBH Sound MC TS-10AP

I'm having a really tough time getting the speakers to blend well with the sub in this larger room. The sub is not quite localizable but just does not blend really well. The speakers are acoustic suspension and specs are 85Hz-20kHz (±3dB) and sensitivity of 84dB (2.83V @ 1 Meter), the Acurus A250 should easily take care of the inefficient speakers. The sub 30Hz-200Hz (±3dB) and sensitivity of 87dB (2.83 @ 1 Meter) should not be a problem. I have tried 80Hz as some testing of these speakers show they are quite capable down to 70Hz, I have also tried 100Hz and 120Hz but have not been happy with any of those.

One thing I noticed was the speaker gain on the Denon after running the auto set-up, usually about +9. Most sub manufacturers seem to recommend setting the sub level to the mid point. So when I set the sub level to about 25% rather than 50% the speaker gain was 0 and +.5 for the left and right. This brings up a question I had never considered before as I had always assumed that the auto set-up would adjust speaker gain levels to the point where reference level was zero on the volume. I'm thinking that is not the case. 

Any thoughts on which route is better?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Looking at the specs you posted its clear why you are hearing the bookshelves ability to blend well. With a frequency response of only 85hz on the low end means that not only do the speakers lack any low end but I can gurentee that at 85hz they would be struggling at any decent levels this means in reality the crossover would have to be set much higher (probably 100hz or higher) this means that the sub would be much harder to "hide" as its above the threshold of it being heard and now can be localized.


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## HomeTheater1010 (Apr 6, 2011)

Before you do the Audyssey it asks tote Subs at half way point did you try that ?


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

I always double check the sound levels in the manual speaker setup with a radio shack sound meter after running audyssey and ALWAYS need to make adjustments. Don't rely 100% on the auto calibration.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

My ultra bookshelfs from SVS have a reliable frequency response down to 46hz in my room. Makes them easy to integrate. They play pretty loud too.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Actually Tony, you'd be surprised at what these speakers can do at higher volumes. The louder you play them the more bass they produce and as I said in room they are much closer to 70Hz. The sub is not localizable, just seems like I'm missing something that I get with floor standers. Can't quite put my finger on it.

This Denon does not have Audyssey and yes, I have tried it at the halfway point. That is when it sets the speaker gain to +9. I have always been under the impression that it is better the turn gain down rather that up.


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