# PA passive speakers for home theater use.



## Guest (Nov 23, 2011)

This is actually a repost. It's kind of a cross between the two, so I'm not sure where the best place to ask is, but here it goes.

I know it's been asked before, and if I do a google search, their seems to be a few threads over at the AVS forums. Overall, their just doesn't seem to be a lot of solid information out their as to how good or bad of an ideal it would be.

I was wondering, if the http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-EUR...D3LC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322091686&sr=8-1 could work well for home theater speakers (assuming the space is available) hooked up to a home theater AVR.

They are very efficient (8ohm), and get good reviews on sound quality. Would the horn dispersion be too wide for home use?

Their really isn't a whole lot of fair priced efficient speakers on the market, and Klipsch cost a lot. I used to have Infinity SM series speakers and they were crazy efficient, and kind of sounded like PA speakers anyway, but Infinity doesn't offer anything close to them today.

If you think it would work, please explain why the horn dispersion wouldn't be too wide, of it you think it would be the worst ideal since the pet rock, please explain.

Thanks


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

The horn dispersion, if properly implemented, will match the woofer at the crossover frequency. This is of more importance than a theoretical room match.

The Behringer appears to be more of a DJ/Public Address application speaker. I would worry more about the ability of the large 1 3/4" compression driver to reach above 10K-12k Hz.

Have you looked at Hsu for budget HT speakers? They don't use compression drivers, but are better suited to in home use. http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/hb-1.html


----------



## Guest (Nov 24, 2011)

The behringers are rated to 18khz. Unless they fluffed the numbers. I have seen those Hsu speakers before and I'm sure they are nice, but I want even more efficient.

So what makes a PA speaker just made for JD/or public address? Klispch used large compression horns before in home use? I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it all.


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

The Berrys may be rated to 18k, but the diaphragm is simply too large to create such short wavelengths. I own constant directivity, compression driver equipped speakers, so I don't mean to imply that all such speakers are relegated to PA usage. 

What makes a speaker useful only for PA/DJ situations? A plastic cabinet and limited frequency response are two indicators.


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

What tesseract said. 

On top of that, few budget PA speakers can deliver hi-fi sound. Just consider the design parameters between a PA and hi-fi speaker with identical price points. The PA speaker must be built to withstand the abuse of being bounced around in the back of a van going from gig to gig, and be able to play all day outdoors in the hot sun without going up in smoke. By contrast, the research dollars for a hi-fi speaker can be spent on improved sound quality, since they are not saddled with the requirement to be built like a tank.

So for your $117, which speaker do you think is going to sound better? Don't be fooled by the Behringer's huge woofer - PA speakers of this type typically fall like a brick below 100-125 Hz. Just about any hi-fi speaker with even a 5" woofer can get that low.




> I have seen those Hsu speakers before and I'm sure they are nice, but I want even more efficient.


The speaker's efficiency isn't an issue unless you're saddled with a 25 watt amplifier. Or unless you're going for ear-bleeding SPL levels. A typical hi-fi speaker with an average 88 dB efficiency, driven by a typical 100-watt receiver, isn't going to have any problem exceeding 95 dB in the average home listening space.

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## Guest (Nov 25, 2011)

I can't directly make the comparison between home hifi speakers and PA speakers because I don't have the experience, but I do know that price doesn't = performance or quality. I have a ugly crown brick amp that was cheap and I'm sure I could spend a couple of grand in a store and still have less of a amp.

It would seem that some PA speakers work for HT. I know that a few people have used Heresy III Speakers for HT and they have a 1" compression tweeter in them. Others have used JBL PA or even JBL cinema speakers. They are all a PA style of speaker. I guess I'm more surprised to read you guys say that the Behringers can't do the 65 Hz to 18 kHz they are rated at.


----------



## ISLAND1000 (May 2, 2007)

The members on here have lots of experience with Behringer equipment of all kinds.
Generally speaking, speakers designed for or as a "PA" speaker don't reproduce the sound spectrum as accurately as "High Fidelity" speakers do. The issue of "distortion" is important in Home Theater systems, the issue of loud volume, light weight, and lower price are important in "PA" systems.
BUT, if the sound of the Behringers is satisfactory to you then your the only one who counts.


----------



## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

I haven't had a chance to demo them yet. I don't even know what they sound like, but I have noticed that today's cheap equipment is pretty impressive compared to mid-fi 10+ years ago. I have some Behringer headphones I got for me PC for $21. They are not as refined or quite as nice as my sennheiser 555's, they are actually really good sounding. While I don't have experience with the exact model of PA speakers I was wondering about, I know that Behringer offers some nice stuff for some really cheap coin.

The ideal of using affordable PA speakers for HT is kinda pre-planning stage. I have a 2.1 hi-fi system that I put together to cater to music, and it will carry HT duties as well.

I just liked the ideal of going for horn loaded sound for HT duties and I don't care about a plastic PA case cause I watch movies in the dark. Maybe I'll try and hit up guitar center to see what they sound like. Inside too.


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Generic said:


> I can't directly make the comparison between home hifi speakers and PA speakers because I don't have the experience, but I do know that price doesn't = performance or quality. I have a ugly crown brick amp that was cheap and I'm sure I could spend a couple of grand in a store and still have less of a amp.


No one is saying that price equals performance. My concerns are that the 1 3/4" tweeter is incapable of reaching 18k Hz and the plastic cabinet is too resonant.

If you are happy with them after an audition and they do the job required, that is all that matters. :T



> It would seem that some PA speakers work for HT. I know that a few people have used Heresy III Speakers for HT and they have a 1" compression tweeter in them. Others have used JBL PA or even JBL cinema speakers. They are all a PA style of speaker. I guess I'm more surprised to read you guys say that the Behringers can't do the 65 Hz to 18 kHz they are rated at.


My current monitors are "PA style", use 1" compression drivers and are rated to 18k Hz. It takes a driver that small to reach that high, it's simple physics.


----------



## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

Well, I'm not in any real hurry. It was kind of an ideal. The next time I need to fill a large space, I might get two of the larger passive EUROLIVE B215XL just to play with. I was asked to do audio for a weeding awhile back, and luckily I was able to borrow some equipment. I didn't have the speakers to fill the space. Next time, I'll just make it an excuse to just buy something. I think I had just bought a pre-amp and sub and didn't have the spare cash at the time.

I'd like to play with REW and those. Oddly, the larger speaker is rated to 20Khz with the same size compression mid/tweet?!?!?!?


----------



## MikeBiker (Jan 3, 2010)

I would like to see someone do some lab and in-room measurements on a system that uses PA speakers. I have a feeling that the response would not be particularly flat and that there would be more distortion than is considered acceptable for home use.


----------



## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

You would probably be better off going with something like this for close to the same money. They are 3 way speakers and are 93db sensitive so they will not need a ton of power. http://www.ecrater.com/p/9901164/cerwin-vega-ve-12f-floor


----------



## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

MikeBiker said:


> I would like to see someone do some lab and in-room measurements on a system that uses PA speakers. I have a feeling that the response would not be particularly flat and that there would be more distortion than is considered acceptable for home use.


Well, I don't have a lab, but if the Behringer PA speakers follow suit with massive quality per cost, then I bet they will sound good. I've heard a number of PA speakers sound good indoors in large rooms. They might not create the high fidelity that one would expect from high end speakers and dome tweeters, but without even hearing them, I'd imagine SQ is actually pretty decent. The only reason I was interested in them in the first place is because the SQ of PA speakers seem to have gone up a lot over the years. They used to have obvious distortion, flat and muddy sounding, but not any more. Well, maybe some still do, but overall, SQ seems to have taking a massive leap forward in the PA department.

I don't find speakers in a actual theater to be all that great sounding, but they go loud and fill the room. For movies, they sound plenty good enough. The question would be, are the Behringers good enough. That will take some time to find out.


----------



## Guest (Nov 26, 2011)

tcarcio said:


> You would probably be better off going with something like this for close to the same money. They are 3 way speakers and are 93db sensitive so they will not need a ton of power. http://www.ecrater.com/p/9901164/cerwin-vega-ve-12f-floor


I haven't demo'd cerwin-vega in probably 10 years, but the last time I did, they sounded pretty junky compared to my Infinity studio monitor speakers. They are also really tall. The Behringers are just short enough to fit under a projection screen.

If I was going to give full size towers a try, I'd probably try these. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=303-468


----------



## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Didn't know you have to go under the screen. I have mine to the sides of the screen so hieght isn't a factor. I heard the CV's the other day and they sounded pretty good for what they are.


----------



## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

It is good to look towards well constructed PA style speakers for HT and even music listening. 

Cone and dome speakers have a huge directivity mismatch and generally do not have the efficiency to deliver reference level SPL at the listening position. Often, the speaker drivers and/or the amp powering them reach their limits.

Most constant directivity speakers use compression drivers (some successfully utilize domes), waveguides and pro sound woofers. This allows for a directivity match at the crossover frequency and above, which helps minimize room issues. High efficiency means low distortion, the drivers barely move.


----------

