# Looking to set up new home theater - need advise for speaker and receiver selection



## Mike from Hudson (Dec 8, 2009)

Hello Theater Shack,

In the next month or two I will be purchasing news speakers and a receiver for home theater. The amount of gear out there is truely mind boggling, so I need some help. 

My room is fairly large - 18 x 24 with vaulted ceilings totaling roughly 4000 cubic feet, and I do like to play music (and soon movies) load. 

I already have a TV - Pioneer 50" Elite Kuro 101 - , and disc player - Oppo 83, both still in the box. 

My budget will be about $5-6,000 total for the speakers and receiver. I've already auditioned a Pioneer SC25 connected to a Definitive Tech BP7004 5.1 system. My wife loved it but I'm told (by the Def Tech salesman!) that there is better out there for the money.

Will start auditioning this Friday - to purchase sometime in January.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Mike


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Mike, I would definitely recommend auditioning as many speakers as possible. Just to throw a few of my favorites out there, Focal, Paradigm, PSB, and Dynaudio are all worthy of a listen.

As you said, there are a mind boggling number of speaker choices for your Dollar. I would definitely pick your Speakers first. I would do this because some speakers are super efficient while others are not.
This will help in making sure you get a receiver that can drive your speakers to your preferred level.
If the speakers you like are really efficient, you will not have to worry so much about power output or the possible need of adding an outboard amplifier.

You are off to a great start with the components you have so far. I look forward to your findings and we are here for any help/advice you might need.
Cheers,
JJ


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Hi Mike,
Welcome to the Shack.

Sounds like you're well on your way to a very nice home theater :T
There are a lot of choices out there so the best advice is to audition as much as you can. 
I'll toss in a couple of my favorites as well; RBH Sound, PSB Speakers, Revel Loudspeakers, Snell Acoustics and Monitor Audio. 
You can also look at internet direct brands such as SVSound, Aperion Audio, Emotiva and Ascend Acoustics.

You may also want to consider room treatments like acoustic panels or bass traps from the likes of GIK Acoustics.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Ditto on treatments. $1000 or less in treatments will do more for your sound than $3000 worth of speakers.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Couldn't agree more on the suggestions given. The only other suggestion I'd throw in there that I might have missed is get a SVS sub. At any price point, the SVS subs are going to be better than the subs you get from the brick and mortar stores. You can't audition them since they're an internet company, but this is one area where I think you can trust us.

One more suggestion -- I'm not a huge believer in watts or high priced receivers. I'd just get the receiver that has the features you're looking for. For all intents and purposes, I think all receivers at the same price point sound pretty much the same. There may be some SUBTLE differences, but not nearly the difference you're going to have by switching speakers, or placement of speakers, or using treatments, or... The three brands I usually recommend are Onkyo, Yamaha and Denon. Onkyo seems to offer the most features at a particular price point, but I always think of Yamaha and Denon as being a little more solid. I currently own a Denon. I suspect that if I had to buy one right now, I'd be going for an Onkyo. Other brands (e.g., Pioneer, Harmon Kardon, Sony, etc) have reps as being less solid or more expensive or both. Not that they can't perform fine, just, if it was my money, I'd stick to the three I mentioned. 

And the point about the proper use of treatments really can't be understated. I've done some very unscientific testing of a room with and without and the difference was imagine versus no imaging. It was amazing how much better the room was with treatments (~$60 worth of materials for a set of DIY panels) than without. 

Everyone probably has their own system for auditioning speakers -- this one is mine.

Good luck and have fun.


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## Mike from Hudson (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks everyone for your insight. I really want buying the gear to be a fun experience. But when you walk into a store somewhat (completely?) ignorant, the nagging doubts about what to by tend to rob the fun... 

So we're going to take our time, and as advized, audition and audition, then audition some more. 

Room treatment - in my familiy room when I clap my hands or whistle I get a substantial echo. I've check a few online sources, and Owens-Corning 703 comes up quite often as a good room treatment.

How much room treatment should I start with? - I'm planning on 3 or 4 2'x4' panels. But I'll probably get the gear first.

I'll let you know how the auditions go.

Thanks again.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Take a read through the acoustics threads and you'll find a wealth of information. As you have specific questions, please post in that forum. General advice is 2" broadband across as much of the front wall as possible, 2" at first reflection points, and 4" of low frequency behind your head if you're sitting near your back wall. That done, bass trap as much as can be allowed by aesthetics.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For a receiver I highly recomend either going with the Onkyo 876 or getting one of the latest models the Onkyo 5007 both receivers have superb video processing using the HQV Raon chip and also fantastic audio. For the price you wont find anything better.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

eugovector beat me to this one -- I'd hit up the guys in the Acoustics subform for your specific questions.

In general, you want to put a panel at the first reflection points on both sides of the room, a few panels behind the speakers and diffusors in the back. And then bass traps til your significant other says "stop". But every room is different and has different needs. If you buy your panels from someone like GIK, they'll do a LOT to help maximize your room. If you go the DIY route, you're a little more on your own. 

And the OC 703 is the way to go. Get at least 2" thickness for the reflection points.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

eugovector said:


> Ditto on treatments. $1000 or less in treatments will do more for your sound than $3000 worth of speakers.


+1


Mike from Hudson said:


> Room treatment - in my familiy room when I clap my hands or whistle I get a substantial echo. I've check a few online sources, and Owens-Corning 703 comes up quite often as a good room treatment.
> 
> How much room treatment should I start with? - I'm planning on 3 or 4 2'x4' panels. But I'll probably get the gear first.


The guys are right about where acoustic treatement and what often goes where, but they're even more right about getting specific advice custom taylored to your situation. I've seen too may people buy panels for the typical placements and add more when there are more problems, only to completely deaden the room, which always sounds weird. Slap or Flutter Echoes like you're describing can often be solved with just carpet, drapes, couches, or in my case, a fat guy wearing a thick sweater... my room sounds awful when I'm not in it...



eugovector said:


> if you're sitting near your back wall.


Always better not to sit there (if possible) rather than to try and treat the issues that develop from sitting there.

And WRT first reflection points, don't forget the ceiling/floor.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
With a total 5-6 thousand Dollar total budget and a fairly large room that is not square, I would allocate the majority of this budget towards speakers. Believe me, I know that room acoustics are absolutely huge, but this does not appear to be a problem room. Not that all rooms will not benefit from room treatments, but if this budget is set in stone, speakers would be my main priority.
Cheers,
JJ


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> With a total 5-6 thousand Dollar total budget and a fairly large room that is not square, I would allocate the majority of this budget towards speakers. Believe me, I know that room acoustics are absolutely huge, but this does not appear to be a problem room. Not that all rooms will not benefit from room treatments, but if this budget is set in stone, speakers would be my main priority.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Majority? Sure. But there are issues. Leave $ room for treatments. It's a smaller chunk anyway, so it should leave plenty of room for speakers/amps. Easy to get carried away with everything else and have nothing left for treatments. Ask me how I know.:bigsmile::doh::spend:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Indeed. The importance of acoustics and room treatments can never be understated. This and Speakers really do dictate the sound of your room.
Cheers,
JJ


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

The old PSB Image line is in close out right now and you could get 5 efficient, timbre matched speakers that are an outstanding value. The PSB Image T65 towers, a C60 center, and B25 surrounds can be found at saturdayaudio.com for $1350. This system with the right receiver and subwoofer (perhaps a SVS PB13-Ultra) would do justice for your relatively spacious room. You'ld have plenty left for room treatment.

http://www.ultimateavmag.com/subwoofers/1204psb/
http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/psb_t65_c60_s50_subsonic_6i.htm
http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1204psb/index.html


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## Mike from Hudson (Dec 8, 2009)

This past Friday we auditioned a Paradigm Studio 60 system and a Canton system based on the Chrono 507's. Both systems sounded good, but I think the shop is more interested in pushing product than satisfying me. Not a problem really - we'll go back for a more in depth listen in the near future, and annoy them until we're satisfied. They also have Totem fwiw.

We also listened to a pair of Monitor audio RX6's at a different shop, one speciallizing in more traditional 2 channel audio. The speakers sounded very nice on music - any experience with Monitor in HT?

No real progress yet auditioning speakers - I guess you can say we're learning about the listening process.

Also, I'm thinking of an Integra DTR-9.9 receiver - is there any speaker system that would pair especially well with it? The price is about 45% off from list. I think we're about to blow our budget!

Thanks,
Mike


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Mike, glad to hear you got out there and auditioned some speakers. Just to make sure you are clear, the Integra DTR-9.9 is a SSP and not a Receiver. That is, it does not have amplification built in and you must use a separate amplifier to get sound.

Monitor Audio makes excellent Speakers which excel in music and HT. Totem is another great Company.
They tend to be more music orientated than HT traditionally. Canton makes nice Speakers too.

I am a huge fan of Paradigm and have owned many models over the years. They represent excellent value and sound engineering. And they retain their value offering fantastic resale value. 

As you have experienced, many Stores will advocate the lines they carry over competing lines. In a perfect World, the lines a store carries are the absolute best in every price range. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect World and many Stores have access to a limited number of Companies. And many Speaker Companies limit the number of Stores which carry their products in a given area. And Speaker Companies can be picky about what competing lines a Store offers before agreeing to let them become a dealer.
Cheers,
JJ


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Sorry Mike,
No experience with the MA's in HT, but I did have a pair of Monitor Audio Silver 5i. Build quality and finish was very nice. I was also impressed with the C-CAM gold dome tweeter and the other C-CAM drivers were pretty good too but IMO the mid-bass was a bit much and I don't really care for phony phase plugs. For jazz and other music with a lot of horns??? They sounded fantastic. I would not hesitate to use MA's in a home theater.


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## Mike from Hudson (Dec 8, 2009)

Thanks JJ - I'll try to find a shop that has a Paradigm Studio 100 set-up for audition, also want to try to find PSB dealer with T65 system.

I had to do a double-take on the Integra website after your comment about the DTR-9.9: this is an AVR with amplifier. The Integra website states 145wpc into 8ohms, but I'm unclear as to what the rated power is into 4 ohms; I'm interested in Axiom Epic 80 system, but their fronts are rated at 4ohms, so I would like to know if the DTR-9.9 can safely drive these speakers.

Regards,
Mike


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Yeah, had a brain freeze as the earlier Integra SSP was a DTC 9.8 which begat the DHC 9.9 which is the current SSP. When I saw DTR, I immediately thought SSP as so few people I know go with the Integra Receivers. And I do not follow them as closely as Onkyo's lineup. My bad.

Check out the Studio 100's as I really think you will like them. Really sound great. And no worries about the Axioms with the Integra. As it is Ultra 2 rated, it has been tested to drive 3.2 ohms minimum.
Cheers,
JJ


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## gsmollin (Apr 25, 2006)

Don't forget to audition B&W speakers while you are shopping. I also use a Yamaha AVR. Look for acoustic treatments at www.acoustimac.com .


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That is a great idea. Also, for those on a budget for acoustic treatments, check out former Stereophile Contributor Jonathan Scull's "Fine Tunes" 

This was a series of tweaks for maximizing ones system on the cheap. There are some excellent ideas in there.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I have a friend who is using Monitor Audio silvers in his theater and they sound great! He however likes his SVS PB12NSD for a sub over the Monitor Audio equivalent.


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

Find a used pair of B&W 802D or 802S and matching center. Put something decent in the back (though your budget will be eaten), perhaps some paradigm Studio 20s. 

You could also go the B&W CM-line. I recommend those as well.


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## Mike from Hudson (Dec 8, 2009)

We've had a busy Christmas auditioning speakers and AVR's. We've settled on Integra DTR-9.9 and a pair of PSB Synchrony One towers for the main speakers. We got the AVR and speakers at substantial discounts from new, and have the speakers in house for an audition of max one week (speakers were demo's and come with full warranty). The PSB's sound great in my family room, so I doubt we'll be returning them. The Synchrony's go deep but also have a sweet midrange - they seem very well balanced - and my wife loves 'em. Surrounds will come later in the new year - not sure if I even need a sub-woofer with these speakers.

Room treatments next.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Congrats on your purchase. I'm sure you'll be very pleased with those speakers. :T


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## Mike from Hudson (Dec 8, 2009)

nova said:


> Congrats on your purchase. I'm sure you'll be very pleased with those speakers. :T


BLISS!!!


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