# Upgrading CHT-10 to PB 10 NSD?



## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Hi. 

I own a Velodyne CHT-10 and I want to replace it with someone better.

Listening preferences 50/50 movie and music. Rock/pop mostly.

I'm considering the PB10 NSD, but also looking at SVS' sealed 12" sub. 

I'm missing the 20hz holy grail I read so much about so would like that in my new sub. Also a bit more punch and detail for music. I never play more than 80 - 85 avg db in movies or music, though with peaks ip to 95+db in certain passages in movies which is ok.

What would be your recommendations?

/claus


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Claus, obviously getting the larger sub will produce lower and louder bass. If you are an upgrader with upgraditis (an incurable disease), you could start with the smaller and upgrade at a later date. If you don't have the disease, then you should get the largest SVS your wallet (read wife) can afford. 
seriously, I would contact Ron, Tom, or one of the SVS guys and give them your room size, equipment used, etc. They will be very helpful in helping you make your decision. Have fun, Dennis


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

The Velo CHT-10 is a very good performer (linear/flat/clean) down to ~35 Hz (its approximate tuning point). Below 35 Hz, it starts to roll-off.

http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=20046&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0

The PB10-NSD has similar performance in the 40-80 Hz region, but has stronger performance below 40 Hz and will extend to about 19 Hz before roll-off. Per the test data, this subwoofer can generate 90-95 dB @ 20 Hz @ 2M ground plane with acceptably low distortion levels, so you'll definitely get plenty of clean 20 Hz output in-room.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/994-svs-pb10-isd.html


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

The sealed SB12 Plus is a great little sub, but you will still be missing the 20hz holy grail. As Ed said, the PB-10 will give you what you want.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

drdoan said:


> Claus, obviously getting the larger sub will produce lower and louder bass. If you are an upgrader with upgraditis (an incurable disease), you could start with the smaller and upgrade at a later date. If you don't have the disease, then you should get the largest SVS your wallet (read wife) can afford.
> seriously, I would contact Ron, Tom, or one of the SVS guys and give them your room size, equipment used, etc. They will be very helpful in helping you make your decision. Have fun, Dennis


Yes, I definately got that disease. I think also, maybe I should just for once buy a real nice high end product, will save me in the long run I guess. Thing is, I'm building a new house right now and would like to wait with the big purchases until its finished but I can't wait 10 months...must.....buy....now...!



Ed Mullen said:


> The Velo CHT-10 is a very good performer (linear/flat/clean) down to ~35 Hz (its approximate tuning point). Below 35 Hz, it starts to roll-off.
> 
> http://www.avtalk.co.uk/forum/index.php?t=msg&th=20046&start=0&rid=0&SQ=0
> 
> ...


Thanks for the input so far. How would you rate the CHT-10 vs the PB10 in music performance? I'm hoping I'll get more extension, but not a downgrade in musicality, actually I hoped it would also be better at that.



mojomike said:


> The sealed SB12 Plus is a great little sub, but you will still be missing the 20hz holy grail. As Ed said, the PB-10 will give you what you want.


I've looked at that sub, looks quite good. In terms of price atleast in Denmark, it will be "semi" close to a deal I can get on a Velodyne 12DD...and even the 12DD doesnt deliver the 20 hz db that the PB10 does, as far as I can tell from various tests.

I'll be getting a Behringer this week and will be able to tweak quite a bit I hope.


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## Ed Mullen (Jul 28, 2006)

clausdk said:


> Yes, I definately got that disease. I think also, maybe I should just for once buy a real nice high end product, will save me in the long run I guess. Thing is, I'm building a new house right now and would like to wait with the big purchases until its finished but I can't wait 10 months...must.....buy....now...!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We design our subwoofers for a flat frequency response, deep extension, low distortion (particularly at the deepest frequencies), a uniform/linear power response at all drive levels, and plenty of output capability for uncompressed system dynamics. If a subwoofer excels at all of these things, then it will perform well and sound accurate on any source material - movies and music.

The SB12-Plus will certainly have usable output at 20 Hz (just refer to Illka's CEA 2010 output data for confirmation) - it simply won't play as loud at 20 Hz as the PB10-NSD will.

Your Behringer, combined with REW (you'll get the best guidance on the planet right here at HT Shack) will be really helpful for obtaining a flat in-room response. I also recommend bass traps in all corners if you can fit them.


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

The PB-10 is good sub all the way around, movies and music. If you want to fight off upgraditis, just go ahead and pre-order a 13Ultra and be done with it. :demon:


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Haha yea, I should do that! it's a little more than I want to spend right now though.

Looking at the numbers for the SB12, the test you are refering to, it produced around 90db at 20hz, unsure how much THD at that point though, but less than 10%?

I'm trying to imagine how much 90db at 20 hz is...Highest I ever did with the CHT-10 was 105db and that was, for me atleast, insanely loud and possibly very distorted at well. Thing is, I havent really experienced sub sound at below 28hz! 

Boils down to the SB12 or PB10 now I think. Perhaps when I move add another SB12 for more smooth distribution and better control/extension?


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

Trust me on this, Claus, if you want a useful 20hz, the SB12 ain't it. This is coming from a guy that has a pair of SB's which I love for their accuracy and reproduction of music, but really deep bass is just not their forte. They are simply too small for that. From the mid 20's and up, they are great.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I agree.... go with the PB10 NSD or the 12 if you can reach out a little. You will not be sorry. I had the ISD 10" version in my huge great room watching WOTW at very loud volumes.... it was unbelievable for such a small sub. The NSD is going to better and the 12 even mo betta!


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Appreciate all the input. I'm going to order the PB12!
After tuning the CHT-10 it has become even more evident that I miss the deepest nodes, not sure how to explain it, but even though the bass certainly has improved it's as if it's not really complete just yet! Ok, the CHT-10 is a cheap sub albeit decent - hoping the PB12 will be a good upgrade.

/claus


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

The PB12-NSD should do the job very well... and I look forward to hearing back from you.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok! It's orderet now. It ended up being a PB12+ gloss piano finish! Reading back and forth I got the impression it's slighty superior than PB10/12 NSD in regards to musik and has the tuning feature as well. Combined with, imo, better finish it seemed like a good choice for me.

Now all I have to do is somehow try and live through the immense impatiance I'm experiencing right now!

It's being shipped from Norway to Denmark so will take some days....argh! :=)


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## Warpdrv (Mar 3, 2007)

clausdk said:


> Ok! It's orderet now. It ended up being a PB12+ gloss piano finish!


Also don't forget its Prettier... Great choice, and way to step up to the plate and exceed the original plan... I added a PB12+ Piano Black to my Plus/2 and its a beautiful looking as well as performing sub... You won't regret spending the extra money... :jump:


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