# How good is it?



## 4020power (Jul 24, 2011)

This is a question I ask myself while I am reading thread after thread on HTS. Just how much difference do you experience in a true HT room. I remember when I first heard about HDTV, I thought to myself is it really that much better than "regular TV". And after purchasing my first HDTV set, I was completely blown away by the quality, I couldn't believe it. The only time I have messed around with "surround sound" was when I bought a HTIB from wal-mart,lol. If I put the time, effort and money into a dedicated HT room, will I have the same type of revalation that I had with the HDTV? What was your "first time" like?


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## Guest (Jul 27, 2011)

I think it depends. I myself put all my eggs in a 2.1 basket because I cared about music playback more then anything else. I was surprised to find out how well it worked for movies. I figured the dialog wouldn't be as clear without a center channel, but with good speakers, that isn't true at all. In fact, I think it's better then a lot of mtm center speakers that are mounted too high or too low. It can be tricky getting around large TVs.

If you can afford quality speakers all around, and get the placement at or near ear level, then surround sound should always be the best for movies. Sound coming from all around when mixed right, can be cool. IMO, it doesn't make the movie. Tron Legacy on my 2.1 is rather impressive. I figured some day I might just add decent in-wall speakers for a 5.1 and a refurbished AVR, but I'm just not sure it would be worth it. I need that projector first anyway.

I'm not really trying to make a over all point. It will come down to each person, but I think quality stereo trumps middle of the road surround sound any day. If you can afford quality surround sound, then it should be better.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If done correctly and you dont need to break the bank to do it, Yes there is a huge difference. You may even find that you will never go to a theater again like myself I have not been in a theater in over two years now.


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

4020power said:


> If I put the time, effort and money into a dedicated HT room, will I have the same type of revalation that I had with the HDTV?


I think if you are lucky enough to dedicate a room to a HT install the payback in video and sound quality would be high! I'm not really saying to spend mega $'s like the magazines will show. It's beyond what most people can afford (and I am including myself), but having a room where traffic paths are not an issue, furniture (seating) can be placed were it should or eliminated, light can be controlled properly, speakers can be positioned for best sound, acoustic treament can be applied where effective and needed and even the paint color of the rooom can be neutralized for video accuracy would reap significant rewards - even with existing equipment.

The things mentioned are free or farily inexpensive if DIY. The room environment plays the biggest part in maximizing the equipment that you have or will purchase. A dedicated room will not be restricted in any way like normal multi-use rooms with other purposes or limitations.

If I only have that spare bedroom or basement... No doubt and not with a whole bunch of cash - definitely HT room!


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

4020power said:


> This is a question I ask myself while I am reading thread after thread on HTS. Just how much difference do you experience in a true HT room. I remember when I first heard about HDTV, I thought to myself is it really that much better than "regular TV". And after purchasing my first HDTV set, I was completely blown away by the quality, I couldn't believe it. The only time I have messed around with "surround sound" was when I bought a HTIB from wal-mart,lol. If I put the time, effort and money into a dedicated HT room, will I have the same type of revalation that I had with the HDTV? What was your "first time" like?


With the advent of the internet and vast pools of knowledge, free and at your fingertips, its easy and fairly cheap to build an adequate system that seriously increases the movie experience beyond just a tv in a living room, especially apparent performance increases in regards to sound resolution, location and impact. Furthermore, technology has allowed for good performance in the $1500 range for sound and $1000 for modest video, basically less than 3k gets you good performance in a small to medium room. 

That modest budget having been said, $10k approaches epic performance in small to medium rooms. These systems are 100"+ displays in light controlled rooms with either sxrd or dila projectors, processed with high quality video processors and fed high quality video signals (dvd need not apply). Sound is furnished by 200 watts per channel minimum with separate components, one component handling audio and video processing (a preamplifier), and the other (an amplifier or even multiple dedicated amplifiers) handling only power for the five (or more) speakers. Speakers are said to be the biggest expense, I agree with that to a certain degree. A good system will have at least two powered subs, four is even better. 

So what does all this work and money get you? 

In the case of the modest 3k or less system it gets you better dialog and sound effects that envelope you, approaches putting you in the movie. A 1080p screen that is larger than the 27" tube your grandma still owns, so you get crystal-clear images with excellent contrast and a color depth that has to be seen to be appreciated.

In the case of a epic system of 10k or better, youre placed in the middle of the action. Youre watching a screen that requires you to focus on different areas of the screen to take it all in, just like at your local commercial theater. The exception is that _your_ system beats their system in both resolution and contrast, and by an obvious margin. You observe very deep and dark blacks, with excellent shadow detail and a color gamut that makes you go "wow" on a regular basis. In regards to sound, gunfire makes you want to duck for cover and explosions scare the cat. Sound events happen behind or off screen that really have you guessing if you have an intruder in your house. Even after 100+ hours playing Fallout Vegas (or Bioshock) on my main system, creatures approaching and attacking from behind _still_ sends chills down my spine and freaks me out all the time. You are reclined in quality seating that has built-in drink holders and popcorn bucket shelves.

These numbers are general, you can cut corners in certain regards that allows you to spend more in other areas, and there are several different improvements and degrees of performance that may appeal to you more than others...


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Also, considering your background in walmart htib systems, I recommend a good headphone rig for education purposes. For around $500 a good headphone rig can show you what is possible and bring you very close to audiophile grade performance. 

Im a recovering decade-long Bose owner and Ill never be the same after owning good phones. Might I recommend the likes of Sennheiser, AKG, Grado, Denon and Stax for good phones at reasonable prices. Get yourself a good DAC and headphone amp, I recommend Fiio but do your research on other names that provide good performance at reasonable prices. Since getting my senn 650s and fiio combo I spend alot more time listening to music, my rig was all brand new and factory authorized and I spent about $500 total for the whole rig...


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## 4020power (Jul 24, 2011)

Thanks for the feedback guys. This is exactly the type of stuff I was wanting to hear. My wife, kids (2,5,8) and I love going to movies. During the summer months we probably go atleast once a week and love it. With that said, we are fixing to break ground on a new house and have dedicated a large bonus room (30' x 32') for a movie/rec room. And after shopping around for equipment, It didnt take long to find out I was going to need to increase the budget. We have a room size of 18'x24'6" and it is a room inside a room, even the ceiling . All the framing, hvac and electrical will be done during the house construction. I am wanting to budget around $12-13k to finish the room. My wife is having a hard time understanding why we can't just go buy a large HDTV and get some speakers from Bestbuy and have a movie room. I don't think it would hurt for either of us to find a show room that has a nice theater display and go check it out, that way the both of us, (her especially) will have an idea of what to expect.


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## sga2 (Nov 14, 2009)

Not sure what part of OK you live, but you should look up some specialty home theater stores as most have one or several (with varying equipment/finish levels) display rooms. If you love watching movies and enjoy the movie theater experience, there is nothing like having a HT in your own house. And the kids will love it. 

Echoing Tony's sentiment, we rarely go to the theater any more and usually do only when it is a special event (e.g., going to HP7 opening with my son). 

Regards,
sga2


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Marcelo said:


> I guess you're watching a screen that requires you to focus on different areas of the screen to take it all in, just like at your local commercial theater. The exception is that your system beats their system in both resolution and contrast, and by an obvious margin...!!


Yes in size but not as much in contrast and gray scale as would a dila or sxrd projector. Lcd projectors have come a long ways but I wouldnt consider it quite as "epic" as the projector types I listed in the 10k+ system. I had got in on the sanyo $600 mail in rebate when the z2000 was first released, so I knowingly sacrificed performance for a great projector that only cost me $1600, "epic" status requires a little more $$$$ than that


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

4020power said:


> This is a question I ask myself while I am reading thread after thread on HTS. Just how much difference do you experience in a true HT room. I remember when I first heard about HDTV, I thought to myself is it really that much better than "regular TV". And after purchasing my first HDTV set, I was completely blown away by the quality, I couldn't believe it. The only time I have messed around with "surround sound" was when I bought a HTIB from wal-mart,lol. If I put the time, effort and money into a dedicated HT room, will I have the same type of revalation that I had with the HDTV? What was your "first time" like?


Oh man, it's amazing to have a good audio system, just like with video. You hear things in recordings that just blow you away. The first thing you notice is how 3D audio recordings are - it's possible to give a true sense of depth! 

The second thing is the details - not just small but huge. A bad system (which most of what people own are) will never give you a contrast between silence and an event. A good system will put something like the gallop of a horse or a gunshot and contrast it to silence, with an immediate decay. Background music jumps forward and seems to float behind the dialogue.

Also, a good setup never "sounds loud". It GETS loud, but never uncomfortable. Just natural. When something like glass shatters or a car explodes in a movie, it'll startle you, but never in the sense of "turn it down"! When the epic soundtrack of something like Inception starts blaring, you're drawn in by the audio as much as the video. 

A good setup has very good speech intelligibility - you should never be asking, "what did s/he just say" - you're just immersed in whatever you're watching or listening to.

And of course, music sound great, too, if you pick the right stereo speakers. It'll reignite your love of music to move from "TV Speakers" or something of that ilk, to properly setup stereo.

What are the caveats? 

1) Don't be frugal. You don't need to spend an arm and a leg but you can't just get a 300 dollar HTIB set and expect good stuff. Two or three good subwoofers, a good pair of tonally balanced, well placed stereo speakers with good off axis response, a QUALITY receiver (with preamplifier outputs and robust amp section). a decent pair of surround speakers, perhaps a measurement mic and USB sound card, and some in-room diffusion panels and bass traps, as prescribed by our Room Acoustics section ;P. That seems like a tall order, but do it all step by step. Just don't rush into things looking for a "One Box Solution" - there isn't one! Start with a measurably proven receiver and a pair of quality tower speakers like the Revel Concerta F12, KEF Q900, EMP e55ti, Magnepan MMG, Philharmonic 1, SVS MTS-02, or Aperion Verus Forte and slowly add the rest of what I described above as you go along! Centers are tricky - A few are great, most are not worth paying for as the stereo speakers will center the image well and sound more natural. 

2) Be willing to sacrifice some aesthetics for best sound quality. It might mean pulling the speakers a good 4, even 5 feet out from the wall, and 3 or 4 feet away from any walls laterally. It might mean LARGE subwoofers, NOT shoved in whatever corner is most convenient. It might mean placing acoustic panels inside the room. Likewise with video, where I would recommend blackout draps on any windows, and a calibration done in a dimmed room. I do hope you calibrated your HDTV one way or another :T It might mean pulling your couch away from a wall. 

3) Sometimes, don't trust your ears, but measurements. Likewise with video, where the "brightest display" is often the best seller in a store, the equivalent speaker might be the first thing that grabs your attention. But it might not be optimal in the long run. Go for speakers that measure well (on axis, off axis, and in distortion measurements, and driven with appropriate amplification) and grow to live with them. Finding the right balance between what you hear and what is measurably correct (and speakers, like displays, most certainly have a "measurably correct" reference to be compared to - real life sounds!) will get you much of the way there. One good indicator of a good speaker, is the idea that the sound between a stereo pair is coming from behind the speakers, not from them or in front of them. Speakers that throw sound in front of them are the quickest to impress people, but quickly grow tiring and never give a sense of "3D depth" which is in recordings. Speakers that that have a lot of bass and treble end up hurting speech intelligibility and midrange naturalness in the long run.

Finally, the best way to save money is DIY. From building subwoofers, speakers, acoustic panels, measuring your system, calibrating your display, and even smaller things like "risers" - just about everything can be done DIY if you've got some access to tools and some free time. A pair of $800 DIY speakers for example, might be comparable to some $5000+ commercial speakers out there.

With all of the above said, if you don't have a room already in place, I highly recommend building the room for optimal acoustics.


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