# DSD from PS3 update



## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

OK, here's what I've found thus far:


http://pacoup.com/2008/12/31/playing-the-best-sound-on-ps3-without-hdmi/

"And yes, the PS3 really outputs all of its audio formats in full audio resolution on the analog outputs (the signal is directly converted by the PS3 from source), Dolby TrueHD Audio included. The quality is nothing short of amazing if you have the proper receiver, cables and speakers of course"

but.. 

http://www.edepot.com/playstation3.html#PS3_Audio


"If you choose the AV Multi cable for output, you can only get stereo channels, but they can be up to 176kHz. The PS3 will convert first to Linear PCM and then to analog for your two channel AV Multi cable. 
DSD Disc"

I also found a newer post stating that the PS3 now outputs the DSD stream from the analog outs; I need to find it again. It's on my work computer, so I'll take a look tonight. Now, there are hacks out there that allow access to the DSD stream to back-up your SACD discs to the HD. You have to have firmware ~3.5 or below. I'll post more, but it still seems unclear. According to PS3 designer Ken Kutaragi, the PCM conversion is done with 64 bit resolution anyway; it may be a mute point.

So, I still need to do some research, but it seems that:

1) the PS3 _may_ output the DSD stream from the analog outputs

2) older units _can_ be hacked to do this

3) even if it does convert it to PCM for the analog out puts, it's done with *64* bit resolution, so how much info could be lost? onder:

"...Honda went to a place for the interview with Ken Kutaragi (sic) . They brought there an even newer version with a decimation filter at 24bit/176.4kHz. Also, the 64-bit DP internal data of the decimation filter is rounded down to 30-29-bit instead of 24-bit for the output. The dynamic range is over 170dB and the theoretical number reaches 180dB in 30-bit. Honda says its sound was really good even when compared with the sound of the 1.1 version firmware. The Sony developer attributes the goodness to the fact that the software SACD codec of the PS3 processes all data in 64-bit double precision."

I think that I may have opened Pandora's box with this one, but I promised an update and try to keep my word. :coocoo:


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

Thanks for taking the time to update us, Gary!


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Very interesting. Thanks for doing the leg work, Gary! Good info here. :T


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

More to come...please stand by for Playstation identification. I'll supply info and links, but if it converts DSD to PCM with 64 bit resolution, wouldn't that be transparent? The dynamic range specified is higher than the Scarlett book SACD. I wonder what the sample rate is? If it's 176.4kHz, you may (theoretically) loss some info from DSD, but would it be audible?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Hard to judge audibility without testing. Specs look fantastic, but listening is the final arbiter.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

"...but listening is the final arbiter."

I could not agree more. The proof, as they say, is ALWAYS in the the sound. Specs are just numbers; they may give you an idea as to how something may sound, but I remember the specs from (some) 80s era CD players. 20-20k looked like a ruler, but the sound was just as flat. 

I still think that even if the DSD is converted to PCM via 62 bit resolution, you can't be missing too much. :dontknow: I am planning a direct A/B comparison of the same discs through the same system (except SACD player) with level matching within 1 db. onder: It will take some time, but I'm getting laid-off this week (or next week at the latest) and will have plenty of time on my hands. :yes:

Stay tuned...


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Here's a tidbit more info:

http://www.wheatus.com/download_dsd_frameset.html

This is *NOT* meant to be an ad for the group (the downloads are free, I haven't yet listened to the songs and only found this link in my research of DSD playback from PS3), but it clearly states that "the vinyl quality sound can only be heard can only be heard on the PS3 stereo analog output."


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

I guess I'm gonna have to get a PS3.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

ONLY the "fat" ones will play SACDs. They are getting hard to find. I paid ~$200 for mine; yesterday I saw one for $279. The "bay" has them all the time at various prices w/wo the YLOD. From what I've read the YLOD can often be fixed by re-balling. This is NOT the same as a re-flow.

I listened to Floyd's WYWH SACD yesterday and A/B'ed the output from HDMI and the analog outputs (2 channel playback from both). There was a HUGE difference in sq. The soundstage from the analog outs was wider (extending out of the listening room), deeper and more detailed. Sounds just hung in the air like they were in the room. You could more easily discern what cymbal Nick Mason was hitting at various times. Waters' bass notes were more detailed, too. In a nutshell, the analog outputs CRUSHED the HDMI. 

That's just my 2¢ based on my system and room.


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## astrallite (Apr 30, 2010)

I use the PS3 to rip SACDs to DSD and ISO format. The old FAT PS3s sound like a tornado after a few minutes and no way would I consider using one as a main SACD player unless it was locked in a closet somewhere.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Mine is _very_ quiet; you are NOT the 1st person to mention the fan noise. My UPS' fan makes much more noise; I don't think I even hear the PS3's fan. In fact, I often walk over to put my hand over it to make sure the fan is running. Maybe I just got lucky??? 

I still have the Oppo 83 on my list of "must haves."


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Yet another clue???

"Originally Posted by Aquel 
I assume pure DSD can be achieved if I set my PS3 (model with SACD playback of course ) to bitstream and my receiver in Pure/Source Direct? 

Technically the PS3 does not pass pure DSD over HDMI, it first converts the DSD stream to Hi-Rez PCM. The only way to achieve pure DSD on the PS3 is through the analog outputs. The PS3 is still a viable option as its DSD to PCM conversion seems to sound better than what I've heard from some other players that also convert.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Vinyl 
After debating for weeks if I should get it....I finally ordered it from Amazon Canada. 

How did you hold out so long? The more people buy it, the better the chance we see The Wall on SACD."

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=183259&page=11

I included the entire post as I'd LOVE to see the _entire_ Pink Floyd catalog on SACD. DSOTM and WYWH are great, but how they can omit a hi rez version of _The Wall _is beyond me. It's not even in the new >$120 box set!! I digress, but I'd love to at least hear _The Wall_, _Animals_ and _The Final Cut _on SACD.


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