# AVR preout suggestion?



## Mikeythai (Aug 23, 2010)

I just upgraded my old Pioneer VSX-517 to a Denon x-4000. Big inprovement. Now the Pioneer has no home, and I am thinking about using it to amplify the surround back speakers. Save me from having to buy another amp. Plus the Pioneer sounds pretty good and has 100 watts per channel. Is this an okay idea? 

I am guessing I would run RCA's from the preout on the X-4000 to the CD input on the VSX-717


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Mikeythai said:


> I just upgraded my old Pioneer VSX-517 to a Denon x-4000. Big inprovement. Now the Pioneer has no home, and I am thinking about using it to amplify the surround back speakers. Save me from having to buy another amp. Plus the Pioneer sounds pretty good and has 100 watts per channel. Is this an okay idea?
> 
> I am guessing I would run RCA's from the preout on the X-4000 to the CD input on the VSX-717


I don't think you can do it that way... Problems I see are you will possibly over driving an input. Maybe with a tape loop,but I am not sure about over driving the input still. Maybe somebody else will chime in to confirm or dis prove me. :T


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Mikeythai said:


> I just upgraded my old Pioneer VSX-517 to a Denon x-4000. Big inprovement. Now the Pioneer has no home, and I am thinking about using it to amplify the surround back speakers. Save me from having to buy another amp. Plus the Pioneer sounds pretty good and has 100 watts per channel. Is this an okay idea? I am guessing I would run RCA's from the preout on the X-4000 to the CD input on the VSX-717


Why do you want to do this? The X4000 has speaker outputs for surround back already.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> I don't think you can do it that way... Problems I see are you will possibly over driving an input. Maybe with a tape loop,but I am not sure about over driving the input still. Maybe somebody else will chime in to confirm or dis prove me. :T


It's not an issue of over driving the Pioneer inputs at all, any line level input should be fine up to better than 1V. The problem is there would be two volume controls in the back surrounds, the X4000 main and the Pioneer. It's possible to set it up correctly, but there's no point. The X4000 had surround back speaker outputs that are fully capable of driving any surround back speakers quite adequately, in fact the X4000's amps are better than the Pioneer's. There's nothing to be gained from using the Pioneer.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I will have to agree with gazo, I use my old receiver as the power source for my whole home audio using an impedance matching switch and 7 channel audio


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Mikeythai said:


> I am guessing I would run RCA's from the preout on the X-4000 to the CD input on the VSX-717


Yes, that would work just fine. Make sure the 517 CD input is assigned to "analog" (not digital) and no surround modes engaged, i.e. stereo mode.

cheers,


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## Mikeythai (Aug 23, 2010)

I am using the X-4000 with L/C/R, surrounds, and front wides. With the sub that is 7.1.

I am pretty sure if I want 9.1 I have to assign a channel to the pre amps. I figured the surround back would be the least obvious if the sound didn't match up perfectly, although I wonder if Audyssey would correct that anyway.

I went a little overboard buying the AVR and new sub. Using the old Pioneer is about my only option right now if I want to do the 9.1...buying a new amp just isn't possible.

It looks like Ajinfla says it'll work.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Mikeythai said:


> I am using the X-4000 with L/C/R, surrounds, and front wides. With the sub that is 7.1.
> 
> I am pretty sure if I want 9.1 I have to assign a channel to the pre amps. I figured the surround back would be the least obvious if the sound didn't match up perfectly, although I wonder if Audyssey would correct that anyway.
> 
> ...


Ok, that explains a few missing pieces. Yes, that will work fine. And yes, Audyssey will calibrate all speakers, even those driven by the Pioneer. You may need to adjust the Pioneer's volume control to get the back speakers within range. You'll also want to make sure that the Pioneer always turns on with that volume control setting. Some AVRs have options for turn-on volume. You basically want to set the Pioneer volume, then never touch it.


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## Mikeythai (Aug 23, 2010)

OK guys, thanks for the advice. :T


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

If your pioneer had 'multichannel in' then use that as opposed to another input on the pioneer. You'll use the pioneer volume as a gain control like you would with a power amp. Then you'll adjust volume off the Denon. 

It should work but it's easy to over complicate the setup.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

gazoink said:


> It's not an issue of over driving the Pioneer inputs at all, any line level input should be fine up to better than 1V.


Can’t speak for the OP’s particular equipment, but I’ve measured the main-channel pre amp outputs of my receiver at over 4 volts.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Can’t speak for the OP’s particular equipment, but I’ve measured the main-channel pre amp outputs of my receiver at over 4 volts.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


I would check before attempting just to be shure. :T


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

rab-byte said:


> If your pioneer had 'multichannel in' then use that as opposed to another input on the pioneer. You'll use the pioneer volume as a gain control like you would with a power amp. Then you'll adjust volume off the Denon.
> 
> It should work but it's easy to over complicate the setup.


That would be exactly the same as running into a generic line input and setting the Pioneer for non-processed 
"direct" mode.


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## Mikeythai (Aug 23, 2010)

If I use this setup I will be sure to check the Denon preout voltage, and post here if it worked or not.


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## XEagleDriver (Apr 15, 2010)

rab-byte said:


> If your pioneer had 'multichannel in' then use that as opposed to another input on the pioneer. You'll use the pioneer volume as a gain control like you would with a power amp. Then you'll adjust volume off the Denon.
> 
> It should work but it's easy to over complicate the setup.


I have done exactly this with an older Yamaha AVR (no HDMI) being fed by a newer Denon using the multi-channel L/R inputs. It was not complicated and worked very well.

The advantage is to reduce the demand on the Denon's power supply, which in most cases allows it to provide more power/head room to the remaining speakers it drives directly with its internal amplifiers.

If you have a universal remote, like a Logitech Harmony, it is easy to program the additional AVR to automatically turn on and be set to the proper audio mode (I used pure direct to avoid any double tap on frequency/volume adjustments). 
FWIW: I set the additional AVR's volume to 0db thus providing the Denon the ability to command full volume if desired.

Cheers,
XEagleDriver


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