# $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidate Nominations



## Sonnie

We had soooo much fun doing the $1,000 speakers evaluation, we are going to have a $2,500 speaker evaluation... consisting of a maximum of 5 (five) speakers costing no more than $2,500. Likely we will stay in the cost frame of $2,000 - $2,500.

These are not necessarily for me, but we will have a voting poll and winning speaker like we did on the $1,000 event. I won't say that I ain't gonna keep a pair... you never know. They will have to be awfully good, no doubt. Just in case, we will stick with black in a non-sheen finish. We must be able to power them with the Rogue Cronus Magnum Integrated Tube Amp at about 100 WPC.

Tentatively I have on my short list the following:

MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL at $2,195 

Tekton Pendragon at $2,499 

Emerald Physics CS2P at $2,490 (thru Underwood HiFi with discount)

Those are just a few I am thinking about for now... nothing definite, but one thing we did learn is that even with two day there just isn't time for more than about 4-5 pairs of speakers. Maybe we do 5 this round and then have another round with 5 and then have two speakers go head to head. At any rate, we are going to limit the number of speakers to a max of 5 for this round. It will likely be on up in the Fall/Winter before we do this... possibly November/December or even January/February. Nothing like preparing ahead of time.


EDIT: Once we get up 10-12 nominees (or more)... we will have a poll to select the top 5 for this event.


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## ALMFamily

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I would like to suggest the Salk Songtowers - they would be the ones with the QWT tweeters.


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## JBrax

Should we assume the Tekton's and Martin Logan's faired well in the two channel shoot out? Just guessing since they're already on your short list.


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## B- one

I like the idea of separate rounds and comparing the winners.


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## nova

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I'd love to hear how the Song Towers stack up. Some others I'd like to see up for consideration;
RBH Sound 1044-SE in Black Oak, right at the price limit but a great speaker.
Revel Concerta F12 in Black Oak, quite a bit below the limit but I'll bet it can hold it's own.


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## chashint

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

http://www.sounddistributors.com/bu...=776&crid=250&cat_name=Klipsch+Tower+Speakers
These RF-7's are $2k to the door with TV15 code in the cart


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## tonyvdb

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Would the SVS ultra towers fit in this category? I think they would make good competition.


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## JBrax

What are the parameters of this evaluation? If this is for movies I think the Klipsch rf-7 ii's would be hard to beat at $2k.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

This is again strictly music with the Rogue tube amp. I have a Audio Space Galaxy 88 coming, but it is not as powerful as the Rogue, so the Rogue will handle the amp duties. 

The RF-7's would definitely be interesting, but I am not sure we could get the II's at $2,500 or less. I think they retail for $3,200.

I don't think I would go for the Revel, but the RBH look interesting. 

The SVS Ultra's would fit at $2,000/pair. We heard those at CAF and they sounded impressive too. They aim those woofers at odd angles intentionally and it would be interesting to hear them in my room.

If we went with the Songtowers, I think I would want the ribbon tweeter upgrade, which would kick it above the $2,500 mark.

Jeff... I think all the speakers fared well, but you know I own ML stats now, so it only makes sense to include those. I suggested the Pendragons because of their recent popularity. I may try to get the full HT setup in the house at that time so I can do a full review on those. May as well include them in the two-channel round-up while they are here.

With as many out there as there are, it probably does make sense to have two rounds of 5 each, then on the second round we could have the winner of the first round back in for the finale.


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## JBrax

The rf-7 ii's retail for $2400/pr but Chashint provided a link with a coupon code that would deliver them at $2k. They could make things interesting. I listened to a pair while auditioning speakers and they are impressive. Just sayin…


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## JBrax

I stand corrected on the list price of the rf-7 ii's. They do MSRP at $3200/pr.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I wonder what the deal is with the black ones at Sound Distributors... since they are B-stock. It probably would not bother me too much though.

The Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4 seem like they might be interesting.


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## JBrax

I'm not sure but they're consistently well below MSRP on the higher end Reference models.


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## NBPk402

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I think it would be interesting to see a $2500 DIY speaker compared to a $2500 retail speaker. Maybe someone who has a $2500 DIY speaker would be willing to submit one for a shootout???


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## chashint

The B stock RF-7 I linked to were manufactured with incorrect Cherry veneer, Klipsch decided to sell as B stock rather than scrap.
They are available through Sound Distributors until the supply is depleted.
I have RF-83's and I think they are excellent for music.


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## Mike0206

I'd love to hear an evaluation on def tech 8060st speakers which MSRP at $1998 or the 8080st which can be had on sale for around $2300. If the Martin Logan's and klipsch make the cut the def techs should also be a consideration at least IMO.


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## Tonto

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I vote for a pair of the SVS Ultra's. 45 day trial, ships both ways!

I have a lot of time listening to the RF-7's. They are good, but not out of the $1000 arena/shoot out we just had. IMHO. This price range is gonna have to bring something special.


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## chashint

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

When I was out seriously comparing speakers I found a couple of under-performers (cough, polk, cough) but I found no $1k/pr speaker that could compete with the median speaker at the $2k/pr price point.
It's a subjective judgement for sure, but each step up the sound just kept getting better to my ear and for the most part each manufacturer had different aspects of the sound that were appealing and lacking when compared head to head.


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## chashint

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I would like for a pair of Def Tech speakers to be in the mix too.
I don't know if they still make them or not but the BP series were pretty good sounding speakers.


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## Mike0206

chashint said:


> I would like for a pair of Def Tech speakers to be in the mix too.
> I don't know if they still make them or not but the BP series were pretty good sounding speakers.


They still make them indeed. The two I mentioned are both BP series speakers.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



ellisr63 said:


> I think it would be interesting to see a $2500 DIY speaker compared to a $2500 retail speaker. Maybe someone who has a $2500 DIY speaker would be willing to submit one for a shootout???


That would be really nice to have... I wonder if Danny Richie at GR Research could work with someone who could put together a pair. Or if someone already has a pair that they believe would compete in that price range.




chashint said:


> The B stock RF-7 I linked to were manufactured with incorrect Cherry veneer, Klipsch decided to sell as B stock rather than scrap.
> They are available through Sound Distributors until the supply is depleted.
> I have RF-83's and I think they are excellent for music.


That is what I read, but I also was able to use the drop down box and had the option to order black. Maybe they would tell me they don't have them. :huh:




Mike0206 said:


> I'd love to hear an evaluation on def tech 8060st speakers which MSRP at $1998 or the 8080st which can be had on sale for around $2300. If the Martin Logan's and klipsch make the cut the def techs should also be a consideration at least IMO.


I don't think Klipsch will make it, but the DT's are a possibility. I may have to drop a few brands in a hat and draw them out to see which ones make it. Of course I don't plan to buy any of these, so if I can't get the manufacturer to send them to me, they won't be included anyway.




chashint said:


> When I was out seriously comparing speakers I found a couple of under-performers (cough, polk, cough) but I found no $1k/pr speaker that could compete with the median speaker at the $2k/pr price point.
> It's a subjective judgement for sure, but each step up the sound just kept getting better to my ear and for the most part each manufacturer had different aspects of the sound that were appealing and lacking when compared head to head.


I think when you have them on level playing ground, it changes things. I have been to lots of showrooms, but I can tell you that they were not getting the best from those speakers in most cases. There were too many other speakers around and they were generally against a wall. What we think may be a poor performing speaker, can be placed in a room like mine and end up sounding pretty good if you have the option to move them around a good bit. My shortcoming is power... because I want to use a tube amp and the power is going to be limited unless I spend a fortune, which isn't gonna happen. However, as long as the speakers are above 90dB sensitivity, we should be fine in my room.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

As a side note... anything that is powered will not work. I do not have power outlets anywhere near where two-channel speakers will be placed. All speakers must be fully passive.


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## chashint

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> I think when you have them on level playing ground, it changes things. I have been to lots of showrooms, but I can tell you that they were not getting the best from those speakers in most cases. There were too many other speakers around and they were generally against a wall. What we think may be a poor performing speaker, can be placed in a room like mine and end up sounding pretty good if you have the option to move them around a good bit. My shortcoming is power... because I want to use a tube amp and the power is going to be limited unless I spend a fortune, which isn't gonna happen. However, as long as the speakers are above 90dB sensitivity, we should be fine in my room.


If we are still talking about $1k vs $2k speakers, if the $2k speakers are given the same attention for setup it is unlikely the $1k speakers will sound better.
Since you just happen to be doing back to back shoot outs it will be very interesting if you could throw the winner of the $1k shoot out into the mix of $2k speakers.
One of the participants in the shoot out mentioned how listening to the speakers like y'all did was so revealing about the sound characteristics....my bet is all of the $2k speakers will solidly trounce the $1k winner.


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## chashint

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Mike0206 said:


> They still make them indeed. The two I mentioned are both BP series speakers.


Good to know, I liked the Def Techs a lot across the whole line up.
Do the ones in this price range have the powered sub section or are they passive ?


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## Greenster

chashint said:


> If we are still talking about $1k vs $2k speakers, if the $2k speakers are given the same attention for setup it is unlikely the $1k speakers will sound better.
> Since you just happen to be doing back to back shoot outs it will be very interesting if you could throw the winner of the $1k shoot out into the mix of $2k speakers.
> One of the participants in the shoot out mentioned how listening to the speakers like y'all did was so revealing about the sound characteristics....my bet is all of the $2k speakers will solidly trounce the $1k winner.


+1


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



chashint said:


> If we are still talking about $1k vs $2k speakers, if the $2k speakers are given the same attention for setup it is unlikely the $1k speakers will sound better.
> Since you just happen to be doing back to back shoot outs it will be very interesting if you could throw the winner of the $1k shoot out into the mix of $2k speakers.
> One of the participants in the shoot out mentioned how listening to the speakers like y'all did was so revealing about the sound characteristics....my bet is all of the $2k speakers will solidly trounce the $1k winner.


I think the ones we choose should do pretty well and I suspect would do better than the ones I chose, simply because we are picking what we believe will be the best of the best. The ones I have kept will definitely be included for comparison. However, I also suspect there are a lot of $2,000+ speakers out there that can't touch what we heard and what was chosen.



chashint said:


> Good to know, I liked the Def Techs a lot across the whole line up.
> Do the ones in this price range have the powered sub section or are they passive ?


I am not sure... but I think all of those are powered. They would need to have at least an 8' cord on them. I am trying to find out now how long the DC power supply cord is on the ML ElectroMotion ESL's... if they are 6' then they may not work. Then again, on second thought, there is no reason we should not be able to get longer power cords... so maybe it won't matter.


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## NBPk402

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> I think when you have them on level playing ground, it changes things. I have been to lots of showrooms, but I can tell you that they were not getting the best from those speakers in most cases. There were too many other speakers around and they were generally against a wall. What we think may be a poor performing speaker, can be placed in a room like mine and end up sounding pretty good if you have the option to move them around a good bit. My shortcoming is power... because I want to use a tube amp and the power is going to be limited unless I spend a fortune, which isn't gonna happen. However, as long as the speakers are above 90dB sensitivity, we should be fine in my room.


I remember years ago when I was looking at ML Sequels... I went to several dif dealers before I found one that had them set up right and at that point I loved them and bought a set. I don't understand how a Shop can have equipment to sell and not set it up properly so the customer will know how good they can sound!


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## Mike0206

chashint said:


> Good to know, I liked the Def Techs a lot across the whole line up.
> Do the ones in this price range have the powered sub section or are they passive ?


They are indeed powered.


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## Mike0206

Sonnie said:


> I am not sure... but I think all of those are powered. They would need to have at least an 8' cord on them. I am trying to find out now how long the DC power supply cord is on the ML ElectroMotion ESL's... if they are 6' then they may not work. Then again, on second thought, there is no reason we should not be able to get longer power cords... so maybe it won't matter.


Yes Sonnie all of the def tech speakers designated ST are powered. I took a measurement of my cord that came with my BP-8060ST speakers and its right at 7'. Don't know if that would work or not? It does however have a fairly standard plug into the speaker. Similar to a PC power cord so I would assume the ML's would be a similar connection as well and if that's the case, shouldn't be too hard to find a power cord that's 8'+.


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## dougc

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I would love to hear some of these compared side-by-side with some of the DIY designs, such as Troels Gravesen sp44, Zaph ZRT, Statements, or even one of the better Seos designs.


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## theJman

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

A couple that spring to mind...


Since you had the Tekton last time, how about the Zu Audio Soul?
Ascend Acoustics Sierra
Paradigm Studio 60
KEF R700 or Q900
One dark horse contender, a speaker that I find somewhat intriguing, is the Atlantic Technology AT1 (not sure it comes in matte though)

BTW... it might not be a bad idea to put a link to the $1000 eval in the first post. Would create some symmetry between the two events.


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## Peter Loeser

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



theJman said:


> A couple that spring to mind...
> 
> 
> Since you had the Tekton last time, how about the Zu Audio Soul?
> Ascend Acoustics Sierra
> Paradigm Studio 60
> KEF R700 or Q900
> One dark horse contender, a speaker that I find somewhat intriguing, is the Atlantic Technology AT1 (not sure it comes in matte though)
> 
> BTW... it might not be a bad idea to put a link to the $1000 eval in the first post. Would create some symmetry between the two events.


I agree with Jim on the Studio 60 and AT-1.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Zu was not interested in our first round, so I don't think they will be interested in our second round either. 

The others are all good suggestions. I don't think I will have an issue getting the Sierra's... and would probably do those with the ribbon tweeter, although they would come in at $2,600... close enough.

Paradigm should be doable as well.

Ehhh.... not sure about AT... as the guy I have to go through for those was not pleased with us listing a refurb link to the AT's we reviewed. He has not responded to a couple of emails I sent him since then... pretty much ignoring me.

Not sure about KEF, but could try.

Tonto suggested that we get 10-12 nominees and then have a poll to vote for the top 5... see what members what to know more about. I think it is a great idea... so once we get enough to start a poll ... we will get after it.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

The DC Power cables on the ML ElectroMotion ESL's are 10' long... so they are fine.

I feel confident we can get 10' power cords for any that are not long enough. We may even be able to get the manufacturer to include them.


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## tesseract

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

B&W CM9 would be a great standard bearer if it can be had for a street price of $2500 or less (retail is $3k last time I checked).

Magnepan 1.7, which surpasses the lauded 1.6 and is a must hear, in my opinion. 

Provided that DIY is an option, GR Research N3 TL or maybe even the OB-7. There are a few hobbyists that have done build outs of GR speakers if you want an assembled pair.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

No Maggies allowed... as we don't have the power for them. Must be over 90dB sensitivity.

The CM9 does not come in non-sheen black.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Thus far:


MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL
Tekton Pendragon
Emerald Physics CS2P
Salk Songtowers (with Ribbon Tweeter)
RBH Sound 1044-SE
SVS Ultra Tower
Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4
Definitive Tech BP-8080ST
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower (with Ribbon Tweeter)
Paradigm Studio 60
KEF Q900 (We may not have enough power for the R700’s)

We may be getting into the $2700-2800 range with some of these, although I think you could probably find them all for $2,500 or less.


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## chaluga

How about the jtr noesis ? Get rave reviews on gtg events.

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-228ht/

Supposed to be killers !


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## ALMFamily

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



chaluga said:


> How about the jtr noesis ? Get rave reviews on gtg events.
> 
> http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-228ht/
> 
> Supposed to be killers !


They are amazing speakers - but IIRC, they are $2700 a piece...


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## dougc

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

The Neosis could be done for under $2500 mfg direct. They like a lot of power for full potential, but still 98% efficiency.


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## theJman

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



chaluga said:


> How about the jtr noesis ? Get rave reviews on gtg events.
> 
> http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-228ht/
> 
> Supposed to be killers !


I was going to suggest those myself -- because I've heard them, and they are indeed pretty special -- but stands would be necessary, and I suspect this eval is for towers.


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## gorb

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I definitely agree with the Salk Songtower and Ascend Sierra tower recommendations, since those are some speakers I'm very interested in. The JTR Neosis would also be awesome, but they definitely need a sub.


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## lcaillo

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I think Sonnie has a very interesting list. It will be curious to see hoe many of them we can actually get to evaluate. I am personally not familiar with any of these specifically, only by what I have read about them.


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## bkeeler10

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I second the Maggie 1.7. Are we sticking with floorstanders here, or are "bookshelf" speakers (I hate that term -- make it "stand-mount") also open? I seem to recall that you were considering doing something like this for stand mounts exclusively.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Floorstanders again, although we may later consider a bookshelf only round. We don't want to mix them because if the bookshelves don't fare well, then we may get some backlash as in most cases they are not intended to be full range.

The 1.7's are 86dB sensitivity... and we really don't have the power to drive them as needed with the lower powered tube amps we are using.


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## Saturn94

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

How about the Philharmonic Slim?

http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil Pages/philslim.html


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## Tonto

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Sonnie posted:



> Thus far:
> 
> MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL
> Tekton Pendragon
> Emerald Physics CS2P
> Salk Songtowers (with Ribbon Tweeter)
> RBH Sound 1044-SE
> SVS Ultra Tower
> Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4
> Definitive Tech BP-8080ST
> Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower (with Ribbon Tweeter)
> Paradigm Studio 60
> KEF Q900 (We may not have enough power for the R700’s)


Have all these companies agreed to send speakers? If so, it might be nice if they could provide a link to a brief description of their speaker with some specs & pictures.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Saturn94 said:


> How about the Philharmonic Slim?
> 
> http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil Pages/philslim.html


Ehhh... seems very similar to the Salk Songtower with the RAAL tweeter.



Tonto said:


> Have all these companies agreed to send speakers? If so, it might be nice if they could provide a link to a brief description of their speaker with some specs & pictures.


No... we have not narrowed it down to which ones we are going to get yet. Once we do, then we will ask. I know Walter with Emerald Physics has agreed, but the others I have not contacted as of yet. In the first post I note that once we get 10-12 nominees, then we will have a poll to narrow it down to 5, but #6 and #7 and so on will be on stand by in case one of the 5 decide not to send us the speakers.

What they will tell us to do as far as description and specs is to visit their website for all the information you could ever want. (hint-hint) Once we narrow it down to the known participants, we'll create a new thread and will probably have descriptions and specs.


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## gorb

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

The SongTower is a 2 way with one of two Hiquphon tweeters or a RAAL ribbon tweeter, and 2 5" Seas ER15 mids.

The Phil Slim is a 3 way with a RAAL tweeter, a 4" open back midrange, and a 7" ScanSpeak Revelator woofer.

Both cabinets were designed by Paul Kittinger, both speakers and crossovers were designed by Dennis Murphy. They're both similar and different


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## chaluga

Sonnie said:


> Ehhh... seems very similar to the Salk Songtower with the RAAL tweeter.
> 
> No... we have not narrowed it down to which ones we are going to get yet. Once we do, then we will ask. I know Walter with Emerald Physics has agreed, but the others I have not contacted as of yet. In the first post I note that once we get 10-12 nominees, then we will have a poll to narrow it down to 5, but #6 and #7 and so on will be on stand by in case one of the 5 decide not to send us the speakers.
> 
> What they will tell us to do as far as description and specs is to visit their website for all the information you could ever want. (hint-hint) Once we narrow it down to the known participants, we'll create a new thread and will probably have descriptions and specs.


I think you have a great list of speakers . I would like to see you break them into two groups and do all the ones that you get sent. If we went on popularity then tekton would have never had made it. I like the unknown. You guys mentioned how much fun you.had. do one comparison before xmas and one in
the spring. 

Its always fun to read speaker shootouts. It will increase your member base and that is always good


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## Tom V.

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> Floorstanders again, although we may later consider a bookshelf only round. We don't want to mix them because if the bookshelves don't fare well, then we may get some backlash as in most cases they are not intended to be full range.
> 
> The 1.7's are 86dB sensitivity... and we really don't have the power to drive them as needed with the lower powered tube amps we are using.


 Hi Sonnie,

I may have missed it but what is the approximate time-table for this listening comparison?

Thanks,

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Mike0206

Tom V. said:


> Hi Sonnie,
> 
> I may have missed it but what is the approximate time-table for this listening comparison?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Hmmm......PSA getting some speakers ready????? Interesting.........


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## ALMFamily

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Tom V. said:


> Hi Sonnie,
> 
> I may have missed it but what is the approximate time-table for this listening comparison?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Early discussion is for November / December - subject to change of course...


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



gorb said:


> The SongTower is a 2 way with one of two Hiquphon tweeters or a RAAL ribbon tweeter, and 2 5" Seas ER15 mids.
> 
> The Phil Slim is a 3 way with a RAAL tweeter, a 4" open back midrange, and a 7" ScanSpeak Revelator woofer.
> 
> Both cabinets were designed by Paul Kittinger, both speakers and crossovers were designed by Dennis Murphy. They're both similar and different


That open back midrange could be interesting.




chaluga said:


> I think you have a great list of speakers . I would like to see you break them into two groups and do all the ones that you get sent. If we went on popularity then tekton would have never had made it. I like the unknown. You guys mentioned how much fun you.had. do one comparison before xmas and one in
> the spring.
> 
> Its always fun to read speaker shootouts. It will increase your member base and that is always good


It does make sense to split them up. Maybe we can work up another one in February/March for another 5.




Tom V. said:


> Hi Sonnie,
> 
> I may have missed it but what is the approximate time-table for this listening comparison?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


As Joe noted... tentatively in the November/December area, outside of the holiday weekends of course. My first preference would be 11/1 and 11/2 (we do these on Fridays and Saturdays). 11/15 and 11/16 is probably my second choice, then 12/13 and 12/14 would be my last choice.

We can probably schedule another one in February or March (probably March).


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## theJman

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Mike0206 said:


> Hmmm......PSA getting some speakers ready????? Interesting.........


I was thinking something very similar. Of course, now Tom will go silent on us...


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

He may show up with a surprise speaker that will give us all fits.


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## Tom V.

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Okay, thank Sonnie, all.

We'll keep in touch Sonnie.

Also, for anyone interested in Power Sound Audio news blurbs please don't forge to *like* us on facebook. We will occasionally post updates there first. Thanks!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Mike0206

Sonnie said:


> He may show up with a surprise speaker that will give us all fits.


That would just add to the excitement though!


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## NewGuy3232

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

You should really add the newer speakers that have been praised. The Evolution Acoustics MMmicroOnes, and Vapor Audio. And the SEAS Pendragons with better drivers than the normal Pendragons. They also go for $2,500 delivered to door in stock finish.


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## a|F

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I'd love to see how the PSB Imagine T stack up. They've been pretty well reviewed by many sites. And another vote for Salk Songtowers and SVS Ultras.


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## KLH007

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Since HTS attended the 2013 CAF, you probably heard my nomination, GT Audio Works GTA 1s. They are 90 dB, passive, and have cone woofers, planar magnetic direct driven midrange, and a ribbon on top.


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## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I don't remember those, but they certainly look interesting. Can you get them in black?


----------



## theJman

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



NewGuy3232 said:


> You should really add the newer speakers that have been praised. The Evolution Acoustics MMmicroOnes, and Vapor Audio. And the SEAS Pendragons with better drivers than the normal Pendragons. They also go for $2,500 delivered to door in stock finish.


I believe it's already been mentioned that this will be for towers only, so I'm not sure either of those will be up for consideration.


----------



## fuzz092888

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> That open back midrange could be interesting.


I can personally vouch for the open back midrange as a Philharmonic 3 owner. The Slims are very close to the 3's aside from bass response, where the larger woofer and ML-TL cabinet (the Slims have a quasi-tranmission line with no folds) come in handy.


----------



## NewHTbuyer

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Great idea for another comparison thread. I thought I would throw in my 2 cents since I just looked at many speakers in this price range. I linked my threads below.

I own the SVS Ultras, and I would like to put in another vote for them. I am under no illusion that they are the absolute last word in perfection, but they pretty amazing for only $2,000/pr. They really are full range, playing much lower and louder than any speaker in the same class (excluding the towers with powered subs, like GoldenEar. But I saw you specified passive speakers only). Maybe the Pendragon might keep up with them in the bass department, it would be interesting to see…

They also look great, are really well built, and can handle every type of music well. They get very loud and stay clear at high volumes. Voices sound great, both female but especially male. The tweeter is good, not quite as good as the Raal, but it doesn’t call any bad attention to itself.

I thought I might comment on some of the other contenders you listed, just the ones I have heard:

Emerald Physics. Sounded amazing at RMAF. Definitely a vote to include them.

Salk/Ascend/Phil Slims: I had the Phil 2s (since replaced by the Slims) in my house next to the Ultras for 3-4 weeks. They were awesome, especially the clarity of the highs. Also, probably because of the open back design, they totally disappeared. Everyone who came over to listen agreed that with your eyes closed you could not tell there were speakers in front of you, just music. The only reasons I didn’t pick them over the SVS set were the better bass on the Ultras and the look of the Phil 2s is a bit unconventional (Slims were not released yet..!). The new Slims, according to Dennis Murphy, sound almost the same. So, I would highly, highly recommend those. Salk and Ascend obviously have ton of very, very loyal customers. I have heard that they sound more similar than different. I would say you should choose at least one of the sets with Raal tweeter, with my vote for the Phil Slims.

Paradigm Studio 60s: I would pass on these. I heard them in a shop next to the Kef R500/700/900 and they were not as good (my opinion). I think better can be had in this price range.

Gallo CL4: A friend brought over the CL3 when I was doing my auditioning and I was quite un-impressed. Bass was weak and nothing stood out as being great. They also are tiny and seemed like toys next to the Ultras, Phils, and a set of Emptek E55i towers that were there. The CL4s are, obviously, bigger than the 3s, but again, a nay vote from me on those.

Kef: the R700s were probably my favorite B&M set I heard. From what I have read, the quality of the R series is definitely better than the older Q series. So I vote yes on either the R500 or R700.

The only 2 others I would add to your list are the Tannoy Precision 6.2 (liked them almost as much as the Kef, although they were in a different store, so no head to head) and the Von Schweikert VR-22s. The VR-22s were really impressive at RMAF and I really wanted a set to demo in my own house, but it never worked out. They are definitely worth checking out, although they are a bit above you stated budget, since they list for $2,895/pr sold direct from the manufacturer.

I hope that my 2 cents help. Remember, these are just my opinions. So don’t be offended Paradigm/Gallo owners!


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Awesome... I appreciate all the insight. This is really good information. Perhaps we can hook up at RMAF and share some listening time together.

Those Von Schweikert VR-22's look pretty interesting to say the least and I see no reason not to add them to the list for voting. If you consider the $2,895 includes shipping... we are probably in the ballpark of $2,500, considering they weigh 83lb each.

This will likely end up being an average of $2,500 cost... with speakers ranging from $2,000-$3,000. I know Walter mentioned that the Emerald Physics really shined with the DSP added, so that kicks the price on up a bit, but he already said he would make a forum price for the setup. I have heard a lot of good things about those speakers, so I am anxious to get them here for a review. 

Oh... and we are including active speakers since we can get cords to work out the placement.

It appears I will already have the SVS and EP's in house when this event comes around, which is looking like 11/1 and 11/2, so it will really come down to voting for the top 3 to add to these two. It is hard to say which ones would be included. Maybe we move it to 6, but that is the absolute limit... 7 or 8 is just too many to do. 

We also do not know which manufacturers are going to be gracious enough to lend us a pair for the evaluation either... but surely we will get plenty willing and ready.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Sonny, Any word on getting a DIY Speaker for the evaluation?


----------



## NewHTbuyer

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> Awesome... I appreciate all the insight. This is really good information. Perhaps we can hook up at RMAF and share some listening time together.
> 
> Those Von Schweikert VR-22's look pretty interesting to say the least and I see no reason not to add them to the list for voting. If you consider the $2,895 includes shipping... we are probably in the ballpark of $2,500, considering they weigh 83lb each.
> 
> This will likely end up being an average of $2,500 cost... with speakers ranging from $2,000-$3,000. I know Walter mentioned that the Emerald Physics really shined with the DSP added, so that kicks the price on up a bit, but he already said he would make a forum price for the setup. I have heard a lot of good things about those speakers, so I am anxious to get them here for a review.
> 
> Oh... and we are including active speakers since we can get cords to work out the placement.
> 
> It appears I will already have the SVS and EP's in house when this event comes around, which is looking like 11/1 and 11/2, so it will really come down to voting for the top 3 to add to these two. It is hard to say which ones would be included. Maybe we move it to 6, but that is the absolute limit... 7 or 8 is just too many to do.
> 
> We also do not know which manufacturers are going to be gracious enough to lend us a pair for the evaluation either... but surely we will get plenty willing and ready.


Glad to help! I will send you a PM as RMAF gets closer. It would be great to meet up.

The Emerald Physics setup I heard did have DSP, which apparently really helps the bass.

A far as how many sets to compare, don't forget that these will be considerably heavier speakers than the $1,000 comparison. If I never have to move my Ultra towers again, I will be a happy man!


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



ellisr63 said:


> Sonny, Any word on getting a DIY Speaker for the evaluation?


Not yet... no one has spoken up, but maybe I need to post something in the DIY Speaker forum.

The problem might be that we are not sure who to trust on knowing their speakers can compete. Pretty much everyone is going to believe their speakers are the best, but it really needs to be someone who has had comparison experience in their home in a similar setup to what we have to make sure we get a "real" contender.


----------



## chaluga

These are highly rated and jim might have a pair to send 
http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html


----------



## gorb

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I've heard a lot of good things about the Statements. If you are considering adding a DIY project, how about a kit? The CBT36 kit looks interesting and perhaps somebody in the area would be willing to loan you theirs for the shootout


----------



## brian6751

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Aperion Audio Verus Grand towers. They are $2k on the nose and should be pretty good. They have received a lot of good reviews and list 92 db efficiency.


----------



## Mike0206

brian6751 said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Aperion Audio Verus Grand towers. They are $2k on the nose and should be pretty good. They have received a lot of good reviews and list 92 db efficiency.


I concur. I was actually contemplating getting aperion audio versus grand speakers for my HT system but ended up going a different route. It would be a nice comparison to see how they fair with the other speakers mentioned.


----------



## nova

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I believe the Aperion's are only available in Cherry and Piano Black? So they would not fit the criteria.


----------



## KLH007

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> I don't remember those, but they certainly look interesting. Can you get them in black?


Sonnie, I'm sure they are available in black, Greg makes them to order. Maybe you heard the bigger GT speaker, GTA 2s in the Triode Wire room? Both offer a different direction for planars, big dynamics and 90 dB sensitivity.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



> chaluga said:
> 
> 
> 
> These are highly rated and jim might have a pair to send
> http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> gorb said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've heard a lot of good things about the Statements. If you are considering adding a DIY project, how about a kit? The CBT36 kit looks interesting and perhaps somebody in the area would be willing to loan you theirs for the shootout
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I would not be able to put together a kit myself, so someone would have to be willing to do so and send it to me. I am not sure how that would work. If someone has a pair already put together, they would have to be professionally boxed and shipped... and that may be an expense they are not willing to fork out for someone else to experiment with their speakers. We don't want any out of pocket expense in this round (I can't afford it), so whoever sells the kit would have to include it at no cost and be willing to provide return shipping boxes, etc. I suspect it would not be feasible.




brian6751 said:


> I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Aperion Audio Verus Grand towers. They are $2k on the nose and should be pretty good. They have received a lot of good reviews and list 92 db efficiency.


Yeah... not that I am looking for speakers, but if I did happen to find something I liked and wanted to buy them, they would need to be the non-sheen black. Although it is going to have to be a lot more than just subtle differences for me to replace my Arx A5's.




KLH007 said:


> Sonnie, I'm sure they are available in black, Greg makes them to order. Maybe you heard the bigger GT speaker, GTA 2s in the Triode Wire room? Both offer a different direction for planars, big dynamics and 90 dB sensitivity.


I wonder if the Rogue amp would be enough to power them. I probably need to talk with Greg and see what he thinks and see if he is interested in participating, but we will include them and do the voting and see where they place.


----------



## turbojr74

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I may have missed it - but maybe some Vandersteens could make this shootout. 

The 2CE Signature Mark II's fit into the price range.


----------



## KLH007

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Sonnie, The big GTA2s with self powered subs below 100hz, plays very loud with an Audio Research 60w tube amp. These will surprise all who get a chance to listen, think Maggies with neodymium magnets, extraordinarily detailed and transparent along with terrific dynamics, micro and macro, and easy to drive @ 90dB.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I'll be the oddball and throw the Dynaudio DM 3/7 in the mix. Fits the criteria and comes in on the lower end of the cost scale. 

Sonnie, I believe you spoke to Emilios before and I would be more than happy to do so as well for you if these became a consideration.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



turbojr74 said:


> I may have missed it - but maybe some Vandersteens could make this shootout.
> 
> The 2CE Signature Mark II's fit into the price range.


I am worried we won't have enough power for them at 86dB. I think that might be a lot of the reason the older model did not fare so well in this first round.




KLH007 said:


> Sonnie, The big GTA2s with self powered subs below 100hz, plays very loud with an Audio Research 60w tube amp. These will surprise all who get a chance to listen, think Maggies with neodymium magnets, extraordinarily detailed and transparent along with terrific dynamics, micro and macro, and easy to drive @ 90dB.


Excellent.... I will add them to the list.



6spdcoupe said:


> I'll be the oddball and throw the Dynaudio DM 3/7 in the mix. Fits the criteria and comes in on the lower end of the cost scale.
> 
> Sonnie, I believe you spoke to Emilios before and I would be more than happy to do so as well for you if these became a consideration.


Thanks Don! I think I am more excited that you finally posted on the forum. lol

I will definitely add those to the list too. I think even if they did not make the first round, they would eventually make a round at some point in time. This first round I think we may have to take care of our sponsors first, like SVSound and Emerald Physics (via Underwood HiFi). Wayne and I talked this morning and we agree that 6 sets of speakers is the absolute max we are going to tackle, so we will really only be voting on 3 more to include. I really have no idea what will be the top 3 favorites of all these others.


----------



## 6spdcoupe

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> Thanks Don! I think I am more excited that you finally posted on the forum. lol
> 
> I will definitely add those to the list too. I think even if they did not make the first round, they would eventually make a round at some point in time. This first round I think we may have to take care of our sponsors first, like SVSound and Emerald Physics (via Underwood HiFi). Wayne and I talked this morning and we agree that 6 sets of speakers is the absolute max we are going to tackle, so we will really only be voting on 3 more to include. I really have no idea what will be the top 3 favorites of all these others.


Glad I did too ! So many forums, so much work and so very little time.  

Ahh yes, makes perfect sense and I didn't even think about the sponsors. As usual, anything I can do to help, regardless of brand or product, I am always here !


----------



## MikeSp

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Recommend speakers by GoldenEar just to see how Sandy's latest speakers compare after he started this new company.


----------



## lcaillo

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Sonnie, let's not forget that the winner of the first event was almost not in the mix and not even close to the number of votes of the others. I don't have any better suggestions that what you have proposed, but who knows, there might be another dark horse like the A5 out there. The problem is that having done such a good job on the first one, there will be lots of suggestions for inclusion in the next. I is a nice dilemma to have, though.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



lcaillo said:


> Sonnie, let's not forget that the winner of the first event was almost not in the mix and not even close to the number of votes of the others. I don't have any better suggestions that what you have proposed, but who knows, there might be another dark horse like the A5 out there. The problem is that having done such a good job on the first one, there will be lots of suggestions for inclusion in the next. I is a nice dilemma to have, though.


So very true!




MikeSp said:


> Recommend speakers by GoldenEar just to see how Sandy's latest speakers compare after he started this new company.


I was thinking the Triton Two's.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Sonny, None of the Sponsors that sell kit speakers will send you a pair to demo? I would think it would be a big plus to send a assembled DIY pair for you to demo against the big boys. I would think it would show the value of buying a kit speaker to those that would like to build one but just are not sure if it will be as good as a store bought one at the same price.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I don't really know... and not sure how to qualify it as being worth $2,500 or so.

I think there is an awful lot that goes into building a speaker, which is more than just the kit. The cabinet plays a major part of it too. Not many folks are doing black non-sheen finishes on the DIY side either. 

I think if we did a DIY it would be better if there were several DIY kits against a well know $2,500 speaker that fared well in one of the events.

It is something to consider, but I think for now we will probably stick with manufactured speakers.


----------



## chaluga

If its just for music wouldn't the seas pendragon be better then regular pens ?


----------



## lcaillo

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



ellisr63 said:


> Sonny, None of the Sponsors that sell kit speakers will send you a pair to demo? I would think it would be a big plus to send a assembled DIY pair for you to demo against the big boys. I would think it would show the value of buying a kit speaker to those that would like to build one but just are not sure if it will be as good as a store bought one at the same price.


I would say if the vendor regularly sells the kits assembled, then include it. The reason is that this is an exercise that is about finding the best fit for Sonnie's application. In this case, Sonnie is not building his own speakers. It is about what one can buy in that price range. It is the same reason that we included the Vandersteen in the first event. It is normally a much more expensive speaker but he had a pair available in the right price range. 

As he said, once we go through the manufactured speakers, it might be interesting to compare a couple of DIY projects to the winner.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



chaluga said:


> If its just for music wouldn't the seas pendragon be better then regular pens ?


I did not know there was a choice.


----------



## padgman1

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Sonnie, you have a great list going...........will be hard to pare down to 5 or even 10........

2 other suggestions.......ProAc Studio 140 MKII at ~$2500/pr ( 91db sensitivity, 4 ohm)

Monitor Audio RX-8 ( Silver Series) at ~1750/pr ( 90 db sensitivity, 4 ohm)


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> I don't really know... and not sure how to qualify it as being worth $2,500 or so.
> 
> I think there is an awful lot that goes into building a speaker, which is more than just the kit. The cabinet plays a major part of it too. Not many folks are doing black non-sheen finishes on the DIY side either.
> 
> I think if we did a DIY it would be better if there were several DIY kits against a well know $2,500 speaker that fared well in one of the events.
> 
> It is something to consider, but I think for now we will probably stick with manufactured speakers.


Myself... I would say $2500 for whatever parts are required to build it. That way I can see that if I put my sweat into it I will know how it would compare with just buying a manufacture built speaker.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



padgman1 said:


> Sonnie, you have a great list going...........will be hard to pare down to 5 or even 10........
> 
> 2 other suggestions.......ProAc Studio 140 MKII at ~$2500/pr ( 91db sensitivity, 4 ohm)
> 
> Monitor Audio RX-8 ( Silver Series) at ~1750/pr ( 90 db sensitivity, 4 ohm)


I will add both of those to the list.




ellisr63 said:


> Myself... I would say $2500 for whatever parts are required to build it. That way I can see that if I put my sweat into it I will know how it would compare with just buying a manufacture built speaker.


That would certainly open up the doors to some really nice DIY speakers. Probably we could say $2,000-2,500 in parts.


----------



## chashint

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I don't know. The price structure of Vienna Acoustics but they make some very nice speakers http://www.vienna-acoustics.com/products/productoverview_concert_grand.php

Edit...I just remembered you only want Matt black...rules these out.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Okay... we have quite the list.

We are giving our sponsors first priority, so the SVS Ultras and the EP CS2P's are already in. 

1. SVS Ultra Tower
2. Emerald Physics CS2P's 

Speakers to be voted on:

MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL
Salk Songtowers (with Ribbon Tweeter)
RBH Sound 1044-SE
Anthony Gallo Classico CL-4
Definitive Tech BP-8080ST
Ascend Acoustics Sierra Tower (with Ribbon Tweeter)
Paradigm Studio 60
KEF R700
Philharmonic Slim Tower
GT Audio Works GTA 1
Tannoy Precision 6.2
Von Schweikert VR-22
Vandersteen 2ce Signature ll
Dynaudio DM 3/7
Golden Ear Triton Three
ProAc Studio 140 Mk2
Monitor Audio Silver RX8

I think we will close with these and start a poll for voting.


----------



## chashint

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I hope the Songtowers come through, I have read so many glowing reviews it would be great to see how they do in head to head competition.


----------



## theJman

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> Tannoy Precision 6.2
> ProAc Studio 140 Mk2


Are ProAc and Tannoy even available in the US?


----------



## Tonto

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

Nice line up, can't wait to vote.


----------



## Greenster

Are we going to be able to vote for more than one?


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



theJman said:


> Are ProAc and Tannoy even available in the US?


I believe Tannoy has a distributorship in Canada, but I am not sure about ProAc. Actually I remember speaking with a distributor who carried Tannoy here in the U.S. back a few years ago. I don't remember who it was though... or if they are still a distributor. padgman1 says the 140's are $2,500... so maybe he knows.




Greenster said:


> Are we going to be able to vote for more than one?


I think we should allow it. You might vote for your top three. We can make the poll public and allow each member to vote for up to three speakers, but if they vote for more, we could delete those over three that have the least votes. Hopefully everyone would play fair and only vote for three.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I def would like the opportunity to vote on more than one too. It might be nice to vote for them in order of preference too if that is possible.


----------



## NewHTbuyer

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



theJman said:


> Are ProAc and Tannoy even available in the US?


I heard the Tannoy's at a shop called Blu Note in Denver, located on Colorado Blvd. They recently moved and are renovating, but they carried some interesting brands. Elac, Green Mountain Audio, Meridian, ATC, Avalon Acoustics among others. But I agree, Tannoy is definitely not as readily available.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

If they are difficult to get, then we may want to exclude them.


----------



## theJman

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> If they are difficult to get, then we may want to exclude them.


Unless you have better luck than I did you'll probably be unable to find them. About a year ago I was looking for a Tannoy distributor in the US because I'm intrigued by their concentric driver. I never did find one though.


----------



## chashint

I don't know if they still carry Tonnoy or not, but Starpower in Dallas had them three years ago when I was shopping.
Starpower does not have an online storefront so you would have to call and ask.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

If this is the same one... they don't carry them any longer.

Ahhh... man what luck... I just found an email from Richard Hembree of Griffith Sales. They were the ones who got us the Galaxy SPL Meters for a bargain. They indeed still distribute the Tannoy brand... or at least they show it on their website: http://griffithsales.com/?page_id=39

I said it was a few years ago. What are the chance I would still have an email from 2008?



> Griffith Sales News
> 
> Biamp - Next Monday I will be flying out to Portland for two days of training on all of the new products. It is an exciting time to be the on board with the DSP leader. I will be back in the office late on Thursday. I will be checking emails and voice mails as I can.
> 
> 
> Chauvet Lighting – We have just added in Chauvet Lighting for part of the territory. Coming up next Monday (one week from today) is a road show event in Atlanta. Lots of swag, prizes and hands on with the line (and you don’t have to fly to Vegas). We will see you there in the morning before we head to the airport for Portland.
> 
> http://www.chauvetlighting.com/interstatetour/final/interstatetourfront.html
> 
> 
> Face Audio – The August Specials have been extended into September. Many have used these specials as a reason to try out this line of amplifiers and have been blown away by the build and sound quality. At these prices, it is a no brainer to at least take a shot. (See attached) For your reference, the model numbers are the 4 ohm stereo output ratings (not bridged mono like most brands.)
> 
> 
> Stewart Audio – The new AV50 pole mounted amplifier is shipping. True class AB amplifier technology that outperforms digital chip amplifiers and for less $.
> 
> 
> Tannoy – VQ – We have two demo units in stock. Call or email to set up a demo to hear “Horn Design Without Compromise”
> 
> 
> Tightrope – This line is taking off! Digital signage that is elegant and simple. Simple to spec. Simple to sell. Simple to use. Ask about the rebate program where dealers who register a demo with a client get a nice rebate check from the sale whether they win the bid or not.
> 
> 
> Audix 3rd quarter specials – USB12, ADX51, i5 and more
> 
> 
> Galaxy Audio – NEW PRICE SHEET in effect September 1. (Attached)
> 
> 
> There is plenty more but that is more than enough for a Monday morning. Feel free to call with any questions.
> 
> 
> R
> Richard Hembree
> 770-319-8387 office
> 866-463-9421 fax
> www.GriffithSales.com


Here is one from 2009:


> Merry Christmas!
> 
> A few important announcements! Scroll down for details
> 
> Audix Santa Deal - Employee purchase deal
> Inter-M closing division
> Lab.gruppen fP+ FREE amplifiers (ok, really half off but FREE catches attention better)
> Audix 4th quarter specials
> Audix 700MHZ trade in
> APB analog consoles
> Chauvet price reduction
> Tannoy Residential Employee purchase
> TAnnoy Year End Residential specials
> EASERA SysTune 20% off
> 
> 
> As always feel free to call for more information.
> R
> 
> Richard Hembree
> [email protected]
> 770-319-8387	office
> 866-463-9421	fax
> 
> 
> 1) Audix Santa deal - 50% off standard dealer column for YOU personally (see attached flyer)
> 
> 2) Inter-M news - Inter-M corporate is closing down the US distributorship at the end of the year. There is a clearance inventory list available. All warranties will be honored by the manufacturer.
> 
> 3) Buy one Lab.gruppen fP series touring or C-series installation amplifier and get one at 1/2 off. This could save you thousands of dollars!!!!!!
> 
> 4) & 5) December 31 is the end of both 4th quarter specials and the 700MHZ wireless trade in program
> 
> 6) Big news in the industry this week is Midas and KT were purchased by Behringer. This makes APB analog consoles look even better.
> 
> 7) Chauvet released a new production price list containing tons of new products as well as a reduction in price
> 
> 8) Treat yourself to a new sound system for Christmas - 15% off on employee purchases
> 
> 9) Tannoy residential specials - see attached
> 
> 10) SysTune, the finest live measurement software on the market is on sale for 20% off


I called and left him a message. We will find out if he can help us out... although it may not necessarily be this evaluation round.


----------



## Sonnie

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*

I just spoke with the U.S. distributor for the ProAc line and they are available at various retail outlets around the U.S. However he was very quick to state they were not interested in participating. Before I could finish getting it out of my mouth he said they have been reviewed a couple of times and he wasn't sending anymore out for any kind of review. I did manage to explain the voting and asked him if they received a lot of votes would he be interested... he abruptly repeated himself (he was anxious to get off the phone). I don't know... people like that rub me the wrong way, but hey... it is what it is. So they will be removed from the list and we'll let them stick with limiting their exposure to a specific group of readers.


----------



## JBrax

That's too bad Sonnie and you would think that a company that is confident in their products would be quick to accommodate these types of evaluations.


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## Sonnie

Well... this guy is only a distributor. It might be that if we contacted the company the would have different thoughts, so I would not want to suggest they would not consider it. However, it may be that he indeed is not that confident in them.


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## Tonto

Well I suppose you could take it two ways, either his business is established the way he likes it (would be very nice indeed), or he got burned by one or both of the two evaluations that he mentioned (more likely the case, which anything that hits you in the pocket book is sure to make you take notice).

So while we don't like being snubbed, the guy is running his business how it accomodates his/his customers needs. I don't think it will effect the event at all.


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## William_Wilson

For us guys out in the boonies, I think that it's vital to include a widely available speaker in the lineup - PSB, Paradigm, KEF, whatever - so that we could audition them locally and have some sort of a baseline to compare to.

I wonder why Axiom Audio never seem to make these short lists? Their owners seem to be fanatic about them...

Will


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## padgman1

*Re: $2,500 Speaker Evaluation Candidates*



Sonnie said:


> I just spoke with the U.S. distributor for the ProAc line and they are available at various retail outlets around the U.S. However he was very quick to state they were not interested in participating. Before I could finish getting it out of my mouth he said they have been reviewed a couple of times and he wasn't sending anymore out for any kind of review. I did manage to explain the voting and asked him if they received a lot of votes would he be interested... he abruptly repeated himself (he was anxious to get off the phone). I don't know... people like that rub me the wrong way, but hey... it is what it is. So they will be removed from the list and we'll let them stick with limiting their exposure to a specific group of readers.


Too bad.........I did read a not so stellar review on a British site on these speakers, so maybe that's why he was so brusque........
You are also right....the price (~1700 euros) was on that British site............


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## chashint

The Starpower link was correct.
You would think all major metropolitan areas could support each manufacturer but some of them are barely available at all.


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## NewHTbuyer

William_Wilson said:


> For us guys out in the boonies, I think that it's vital to include a widely available speaker in the lineup - PSB, Paradigm, KEF, whatever - so that we could audition them locally and have some sort of a baseline to compare to.
> 
> I wonder why Axiom Audio never seem to make these short lists? Their owners seem to be fanatic about them...
> 
> Will


It is kind of true that the brand name stuff tends to get the short end of the stick on the Internet forums. I think that it would be cool if at least one B&M flag bearer was included. Look at the last shootout, the ML motion almost won. You can hear those at most BestBuys, I believe. Maybe B&W CM9 also on the list?


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## NBPk402

NewHTbuyer said:


> It is kind of true that the brand name stuff tends to get the short end of the stick on the Internet forums. I think that it would be cool if at least one B&M flag bearer was included. Look at the last shootout, the ML motion almost won. You can hear those at most BestBuys, I believe. Maybe B&W CM9 also on the list?


The ML is on the list to be voted. :T


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## lcaillo

Being rather familiar with the B&W, and generally liking them, I still do not think they would compete well.


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## chashint

I think the B&Ws are pretty ordinary until you hit the 800 series where there is a huge step up in SQ.
The 600 series and the CM series seem to lack clarity.
Problem is there is also a monster step up in price and that opens the door to a whole new list of competitors.


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## Sonnie

William_Wilson said:


> For us guys out in the boonies, I think that it's vital to include a widely available speaker in the lineup - PSB, Paradigm, KEF, whatever - so that we could audition them locally and have some sort of a baseline to compare to.
> 
> I wonder why Axiom Audio never seem to make these short lists? Their owners seem to be fanatic about them...
> 
> Will





NewHTbuyer said:


> It is kind of true that the brand name stuff tends to get the short end of the stick on the Internet forums. I think that it would be cool if at least one B&M flag bearer was included. Look at the last shootout, the ML motion almost won. You can hear those at most BestBuys, I believe. Maybe B&W CM9 also on the list?



We cut KEF because we wanted the R500's and they only offered them in gloss... as was the CM9's. We will have Paradigm, MartinLogan, Def Tech, Tannoy and RBH that should all be in the B&M inventory. However, you all control what will get chosen. 

Either way, I would not trust auditioning in a store. Most of these companies will allow you a trial period in your home, which is where you should be auditioning them... because placement can make a HUGE difference in how they sound. I would NOT trust what I heard in a showroom, unless I knew that I could come very close to replicating what is in my room, which would include the store allowing me to move speakers around and connect to my own equipment. 

I am sure that going forward I will probably over emphasize the importance of auditioning speakers in your own home with your own equipment... and hopefully be able to experiment with placement. Otherwise, I think you are shooting in the dark and taking a major risk. We need to be thankful for these companies that do allow in home auditions.


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## Sonnie

The poll is up... now we need your votes! 


*GO VOTE!*


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## Greenster

Reading the reviews on the $2500 speakers, I am blown away on a few of them. I am really curious as to how the A5's compete against them for the money.

Golden Ear Triton Three
Paradigm Studio 60
SVS Ultra Tower
Emerald Physics CS2P's 
Tekton Pendragon

Are the ones that I really want to see in your test. 
Just based on the review, I think the Tekton's will win.


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## Sonnie

We got all those, except we opted to go with the Triton Two instead of the Three... and the Tekton will be the Seas Pendragon... which is more suited for two-channel listening than the regular Pendragon.


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## William_Wilson

Sonnie said:


> Either way, I would not trust auditioning in a store. Most of these companies will allow you a trial period in your home, which is where you should be auditioning them... because placement can make a HUGE difference in how they sound.


An excellent point. I'm going to have to accept the fact that I may audition a winning pair of speakers in my listening room and find them lacking - requiring a return trip to the manufacturer.

The problem that I've found in being Canadian (other than saying "sorry" way too much) is that, because of all the pioneering work that Floyd Toole did at the National Research Council in the 1970's. All of the Canadian retailers assume that the Canadian speaker manufacturers are the be all and end all of the industry and so can't be bothered to bring in any foreign brands unless there's an overwhelming demand. Like Polk or Bose 

Still, if you haven't heard a pair of higher-end PSB's or Totem Acoustics (my personal favourite) you don't know just how good we have it.

This is going to be a bucket of fun!

For me, anyway...

Will


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## lcaillo

chashint said:


> I think the B&Ws are pretty ordinary until you hit the 800 series where there is a huge step up in SQ.
> The 600 series and the CM series seem to lack clarity.
> Problem is there is also a monster step up in price and that opens the door to a whole new list of competitors.


I agree. I am more interested in how the Paradigms stack up, among the more traditionally distributed speakers.


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## chaluga

Sonnie said:


> We got all those, except we opted to go with the Triton Two instead of the Three... and the Tekton will be the Seas Pendragon... which is more suited for two-channel listening than the regular Pendragon.


Good to see the seas pendragon is being used


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## Sonnie

I guess I just missed them on the website previously, but found them today... and talked with Eric about them. He feels more confident in them in a two-channel setup.


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## chaluga

Sonnie said:


> I guess I just missed them on the website previously, but found them today... and talked with Eric about them. He feels more confident in them in a two-channel setup.


I sure wish I could have two different rooms with different speakers . Be neat to customize. But my.house and.budget won't accommodate it


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## Sonnie

I like the home theater/two-channel room sharing to an extent, but if money was freely available, I would certainly like to have a dedicated listening room that was the perfects size and allowed unlimited placement of speakers an listening position. Of course, who wouldn't like to have it.

In my situation, at least the home theater is sound proofed from the house, so that helps when I get ready to listen to music... I don't have to ask my wife can I use the room... or worry about keeping her up at later hours.


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## subwoofery

... I guess I'm too late for suggesting a pair of speaker. 

Was intrigued by those: Spatial Trilogy T2

Seeing what their study of room acoustic helped in creating a really neat room-correction software... 

GL with the review  

Kelvin


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## Sonnie

Those would be interesting. Maybe we can work them into voting for the next round, if we open up voting for that round.


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## subwoofery

That would be great news  Wish there was more info on those though. 

Seems like the owner has a lot to do with Emerald Physics speakers: 
"_Clayton Shaw, who previously developed and manufactured Evett & Shaw and Emerald Physics loudspeakers, has now moved beyond his three-year non-compete agreement with Emerald Physics’ current owner to found a new company, Spatial Computer. The 90 lb Trilogy T2 ($2398/pair), a high-sensitivity, three-way, open-baffle design loudspeaker, is sold with a 30-day trial policy. With DSP operating below 200Hz, the speaker delivered beautiful, warm, open, and colorful sound on Jane Monheit’s rendition of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow.” Those who have followed Shaw’s previous accomplishment to the Emerald City will definitely want to check these babies out._" 

Kelvin


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## Sonnie

Very interesting indeed.


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## bkeeler10

Here's an interesting tidbit for ya. Both Eric Alexander of Tekton and Clayton Shaw of Spatial once worked at the commercial loudspeaker company I currently work for. I arrived shortly after Eric left, and did meet him several years ago when he was just starting to develop what I now assume was his current line up. Never knew Clayton Shaw though.


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## a|F

Sonnie, could you please explain your reasoning behind not putting a pair of PSB's in the voting. They were recommended a couple times, yet you chose to never even mention them by name...


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## Sonnie

We have not had any luck getting PSB products for review. There were a couple we did not include that were nominated for various reasons. Maybe we can include them later on and if they get chosen we can make another attempt at getting them.


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## a|F

I respect and appreciate the reply. You're doing great work for the community.


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## Sonnie

After talking with several manufacturer reps/owners, etc... it seems that they are all inundated with request for reviews by every tom, dick and harry on the street corner. There are guys popping up with blogs and small sites wanting to review their products and it has gotten to a point that they are unsure who is legit and who is not. When we tell them "Home Theater Shack" and they have never heard of us, they immediately discount us as being legit. However, if I can get them to visit the site and really check us out, they usually seem to be more impressed than not. Yet, there are a few that when we say "forum"... it is like they run and hide from us...."eeeeecccckkkkkkk... go away!" They have such a sour taste about forums that they just cannot fathom sending product to one. If we were a review site with a forum, it might be different, but we are a discussion forum first and foremost... one that happens to also review products.


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## Tonto

Of all the forums I've frequented, this is hands down the best. The people that respond to posts are generaly knowledgable & enjoy helping those that are new in the hobby, as opposed to the "flaming" seen in some other forums. The only silly question is the one not asked.


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## NewGuy3232

subwoofery said:


> That would be great news  Wish there was more info on those though.
> 
> Seems like the owner has a lot to do with Emerald Physics speakers:
> "_Clayton Shaw, who previously developed and manufactured Evett & Shaw and Emerald Physics loudspeakers, has now moved beyond his three-year non-compete agreement with Emerald Physics’ current owner to found a new company, Spatial Computer. The 90 lb Trilogy T2 ($2398/pair), a high-sensitivity, three-way, open-baffle design loudspeaker, is sold with a 30-day trial policy. With DSP operating below 200Hz, the speaker delivered beautiful, warm, open, and colorful sound on Jane Monheit’s rendition of “Somewhere Over the Rainbow.” Those who have followed Shaw’s previous accomplishment to the Emerald City will definitely want to check these babies out._"
> 
> Kelvin



Is this the same Spatial company that developed the room correction and room EQ for MACS?


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## subwoofery

NewGuy3232 said:


> Is this the same Spatial company that developed the room correction and room EQ for MACS?


That is correct 

Kelvin


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## NewGuy3232

subwoofery said:


> That is correct
> 
> Kelvin



It got the product of the year awards at 6moons last year or this year I think.

I really wanted to pick it up for my room running 2.0 dedicated channel but its only available for music with computers. Anyway, Eric at tekton and Spatial worked together once eh? Impressive resume.


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## Picture_Shooter

Sonnie said:


> After talking with several manufacturer reps/owners, etc... it seems that they are all inundated with request for reviews by every tom, dick and harry on the street corner. There are guys popping up with blogs and small sites wanting to review their products and it has gotten to a point that they are unsure who is legit and who is not. When we tell them "Home Theater Shack" and they have never heard of us, they immediately discount us as being legit. However, if I can get them to visit the site and really check us out, they usually seem to be more impressed than not. Yet, there are a few that when we say "forum"... it is like they run and hide from us...."eeeeecccckkkkkkk... go away!" They have such a sour taste about forums that they just cannot fathom sending product to one. If we were a review site with a forum, it might be different, but we are a discussion forum first and foremost... one that happens to also review products.


That really stinks.


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## Picture_Shooter

NewGuy3232 said:


> Is this the same Spatial company that developed the room correction and room EQ for MACS?


Mac's can use room eq correction? Is it ok the be colorblind?  (joking)


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## bkeeler10

Picture_Shooter said:


> That really stinks.


Yeah it does. You can certainly understand their reticence though. I mean, manufacturers want reviews of their products to generate interest and reach a wide audience who believes the reviewing body to be credible. They don't want to send their product to someone with a dubious or unknown understanding of audio, or to someone merely interested in getting their hands on a bunch of product for free. So if there are people like that out there, it unfortunately puts manufacturers on guard even when a credible but perhaps less well known group like the Shack asks for reviews.

Either way, I especially applaud companies that are willing to provide product for review to nontraditional (read: non-print) organizations, especially when they know that the reviewer will not sugar coat things for whatever reason. It gives me a bit more reason to consider their products myself.


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## Sonnie

Speaking of demo music for the event... here is a thread I started for suggestions:

Good Demo Music - Good Imaging Music


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## Sonnie

*The $3,000 Speaker Evaluation Nomination Thread* is now open... be sure to nominate the speakers you would like to see in the voting poll.


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## vidiot33

Greetings to all! After having absorbed much useful information from this site, I've decided to become more active. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I own Magnepan 3.7 speakers and I nearly exclusively use them for home theater. I've been pursuing this since the 80's, and one of the tenets I've bought into is that a speaker should first be a good music speaker and then it follows that it will be a capable home theater speaker. However, a comment made by an evaluator regarding the Magnepan 1.7's struck a cord with me: that those who favor these speakers prefer predominately jazz and classical music. This may explain why these speakers didn't do better. I'm considering replacing the Maggie's with the Ascend Sierra Towers, but I'd like to get some feedback from some of you, hopefully who have experience with both. Also your thoughts on whether certain speakers can be great music speakers and less so with home theater. Yes, I get that more dynamic speakers work well for home theater, but what about this question of whether what is good for music is not necessarily good for home theater. Much appreciated!


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## Sonnie

vidiot33 said:


> Greetings to all! After having absorbed much useful information from this site, I've decided to become more active. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I own Magnepan 3.7 speakers and I nearly exclusively use them for home theater. I've been pursuing this since the 80's, and one of the tenets I've bought into is that a speaker should first be a good music speaker and then it follows that it will be a capable home theater speaker. However, a comment made by an evaluator regarding the Magnepan 1.7's struck a cord with me: that those who favor these speakers prefer predominately jazz and classical music. This may explain why these speakers didn't do better. I'm considering replacing the Maggie's with the Ascend Sierra Towers, but I'd like to get some feedback from some of you, hopefully who have experience with both. Also your thoughts on whether certain speakers can be great music speakers and less so with home theater. Yes, I get that more dynamic speakers work well for home theater, but what about this question of whether what is good for music is not necessarily good for home theater. Much appreciated!


I am not seeing how this relates to the evaluation and I believe it would be better with its own thread. :T


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## KLH007

vidiot33 said:


> Greetings to all! After having absorbed much useful information from this site, I've decided to become more active. Not sure if this is the right place to ask this, but I own Magnepan 3.7 speakers and I nearly exclusively use them for home theater. I've been pursuing this since the 80's, and one of the tenets I've bought into is that a speaker should first be a good music speaker and then it follows that it will be a capable home theater speaker. However, a comment made by an evaluator regarding the Magnepan 1.7's struck a cord with me: that those who favor these speakers prefer predominately jazz and classical music. This may explain why these speakers didn't do better. I'm considering replacing the Maggie's with the Ascend Sierra Towers, but I'd like to get some feedback from some of you, hopefully who have experience with both. Also your thoughts on whether certain speakers can be great music speakers and less so with home theater. Yes, I get that more dynamic speakers work well for home theater, but what about this question of whether what is good for music is not necessarily good for home theater. Much appreciated!


Please check out GT Audio Works, I have a pair of GTA 2s on order after hearing them at the Capital Audiofest in 2012 & 2013. Having listened to 3.7s at length, with amps from Odyssey Kismet monos, JOB 225, Merrill Veritas, and Pass Labs, they lack the ability to pressurize a room like good cones can and give dynamic bass impact, yet most box speakers can't approach the open naturalness of a good planar. The GTA 2s have the 3.7s beat at their own game from 100 hz up using a direct driven midrange magnetic planar and ribbon tweeter incorporating neodymium magnets instead of ceramics, 2 8" sealed mid bass drivers for coherent quick blending with the planar, and a plate amp powered 8" subwoofer from 50 hz down. These speakers have stunning dynamic swings, great slam & punch, that openness and natural presentation planars are famous for, huge soundstage, and play loud without any glare. They hit all my hot buttons and I'm buying a pair, can't wait. Before going with Ascend, see if you can get to NJ to hear a pair of GTA 1s or 2s.


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## vidiot33

KLH007 said:


> Please check out GT Audio Works, I have a pair of GTA 2s on order after hearing them at the Capital Audiofest in 2012 & 2013. Having listened to 3.7s at length, with amps from Odyssey Kismet monos, JOB 225, Merrill Veritas, and Pass Labs, they lack the ability to pressurize a room like good cones can and give dynamic bass impact, yet most box speakers can't approach the open naturalness of a good planar. The GTA 2s have the 3.7s beat at their own game from 100 hz up using a direct driven midrange magnetic planar and ribbon tweeter incorporating neodymium magnets instead of ceramics, 2 8" sealed mid bass drivers for coherent quick blending with the planar, and a plate amp powered 8" subwoofer from 50 hz down. These speakers have stunning dynamic swings, great slam & punch, that openness and natural presentation planars are famous for, huge soundstage, and play loud without any glare. They hit all my hot buttons and I'm buying a pair, can't wait. Before going with Ascend, see if you can get to NJ to hear a pair of GTA 1s or 2s.


Thanks so much for your input, this was exactly the kind of response I was seeking. I did begin a new thread on this topic (per the first response I received), so I will need to check these out. Thanks again!


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## phillihp23

Tonto said:


> Of all the forums I've frequented, this is hands down the best. The people that respond to posts are generaly knowledgable & enjoy helping those that are new in the hobby, as opposed to the "flaming" seen in some other forums. The only silly question is the one not asked.


Agreed :T


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