# good budget sub



## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I purchased a pair of pioneer SP-BS22-LR andrew jones bookshelf speakers and I like them. So im going to get another set the center and floorstanding speakers. Im looking for a good budget sub to make this a 7.1 setup. Was also wondering if a 2nd sub would be worth it. Been thinking about purchasing 2 of the dayton audio SUB-1200. Want your guys thoughts for a good sub or 2 that'll compliment the speakers. You guys have much more knowledge and have always been a huge help with my diy setups. I want to stay as low as posible on budget but around $500 would be the ceiling for this purchase. Thank you for the help. Room size is 17x17 square no hallways or open voids.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

The pioneer sub is not that bad and very budget oriented.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I was looking at them but wasnt sure if they would be enough. But I have read good reviews only thing bad I read was it didnt get all that loud.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

I would skip the Pioneer sub

If you want to spend $500 - then the SVS PB-1000

If you want to spend less than $500 - then look at the 
MB Quart Alexxa 12 sub
http://shop.mbquart.com/p/as-sw12pw?pp=24

If you prefer to buy from Amazon - then the Alexxa sells for
around $1100 there

Your call


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Lol why such a price difference? If u think thats a good sub ill get it. Specs looks good.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

BuddahX said:


> Lol why such a price difference? If u think thats a good sub ill get it. Specs looks good.


Amazon has had their stock for a while - which they paid a
certain price - and I guess, is hoping to eventually sell it.

MB Quart seems to just want to move them out - which makes
it a real good deal.

If I did not think it was good, then I would not post or link it


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Two subs will bring your room's bass alive due to smoothing of room modes.

One has to ask, realisticaly speaking, what are your goals?

What do you really expect out of the deal?

Happiness comes from two subwoofers with "HUGE" output. That's just the way it is. That's where the "WOW!" factor is going be found. That's what it will take to grease an indelible smile on your face. FWIW, my thinking is geared toward continuous reference level Home Theater output, not music.

This is why I ask, what are your realistic expectations when asking a question of this type?

...


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## TheLaw612 (Jan 17, 2012)

For $500 I don't think you can do better than the PB1000 from SVS. Take a look at Jim's review here on HTS - he loved it.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/speaker-subwoofer-reviews/66069-svs-pb1000-sb1000-subwoofer-review.html


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Main goal is movies but I know with my budget I wont get crazy eath shacking bass thats super clean n detailed. The pioneers im getting are entry level. Im looking for something in the lower price range thats decent. I read that a dual setup would sound better. I guess its a pretty vague question to ask. I just know theres so many home audio companies to choose from.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Svs subs look promising just trying to see if theres any other options below my limit.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

BuddahX said:


> Main goal is movies but I know with my budget I wont get crazy eath shacking bass thats super clean n detailed. The pioneers im getting are entry level. Im looking for something in the lower price range thats decent. I read that a dual setup would sound better. I guess its a pretty vague question to ask. I just know theres so many home audio companies to choose from.


Actually, it's a pretty easy question to ask and respond to. The toughest part is finding the Benjamins to make it all happen.

Trying to work with your budget, a pair of BIC F-12s?

Place one subwoofer nearfield, preferable, directly behind your MLP and place one across the room from where you're going be sitting. For the money, expectedly this will get you the best bang for your buck in a budget minded package. Also, make sure to download and install a freeware copy of REW so as to assure yourself of getting the best acoustical match between the room and the subs that you do buy.

Just saying, in my opinion, anything under a pair of subs for $2,500.00 USD, again, my opinion, is a budget minded configuration. Trying to find a pair of subwoofers at an affordable price is quite the Herculean task. A couple more suggestions, check out Hsu, SVS and BIC subwoofers in an effort to find a pair of quality subs in the the lower pricing categories.

In the case of subwoofers, one gets what they pay for. A pair of well dialed in $1,600.00 ported subwoofers are going rock you world in a way you wouldn't think possible. A $2,200.00 pair of seal PSA subs is going give you depth of extension and output sufficient to make you eternally grateful to those who make subwoofers. The point, it's all about the Benjamins and how many one is willing to throw at the problem.

Maybe "theJman" will weigh in with some experienced recommendations. I think he has some budget minded sub threads running on another forum.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

BuddahX said:


> Svs subs look promising just trying to see if theres any other options below my limit.


I would really think about keeping the Alexxa 12 on a short list.
MB Quart does good work.


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

For $589 shipped you can get the Rythmik LV12R. There's someone in the AVS Forum selling a pair of PB1000 for $800 too .


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I tried finding reviews for the mbquart AS-SW12PW sub and cant find any. I think Im going with 2 bic F-12 subs and downloading the rew program. Proper setup is one right behing my couch which is in middle of my room and the other next to the tv offset to one side but not against the corner of the room. The rear sub I have to change the phase setting right? Or will that rew program help tell me what to set them up for? Oh also my reciever is a 7.1 harmon kardon avr1600. I can use a rca y adapter n use 2 bubs right? Or am I doing this wrong and should only get 1 subwoofer. Thank you for your help and guidance.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

BuddahX said:


> I can use a rca y adapter n use 2 bubs right? Or am I doing this wrong and should only get 1 subwoofer. Thank you for your help and guidance.


You can "Y" out from the Sub Pre-Out to each of the subs. As to the phase on each of the subs, place both at zero.

The phase on the subwoofer is a time alignment thing which allows the subwoofer produced sound to arrive at the listener's ears at the same time. It's preferable to have a continuous phase potentiometer as opposed to a simple phase knob which has only 0 and 180 degrees.

With two subs, it doesn't matter which sub's phase knob is fussed with. If you have a subwoofer close to you, you want to slow the signal down to match the arrival of the more distant subwoofer. And if you fuss with the phase of the furthest subwoofer, you want to speed it up in relations to the closest subwoofer.

The best way, set the subs into position, with both subs phase set to zero, run the room correction software in the AVR and then run some REW frequency sweeps to get a better idea how the two subs are interacting. One that is done, start a new thread, post the results of your graph and folks here we'll see what they can do to help dial in the response of your subs with your room's acoustics.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

Another strong contender for your room at $500 would be the BPS212 by Reaction Audio. My guess would be similar output around the PB1000's port tune do to dual 12's vs a single ten, but much higher output over 30Hz. Just thought I would mention another option within your max budget.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

BuddahX said:


> I tried finding reviews for the mbquart AS-SW12PW sub and cant find any. I think Im going with 2 bic F-12 subs and downloading the rew program.


Too late, they have sold out - they were not budget-friendly entry level
subwoofers.

Your call on the Bic - however, if going budget friendly - I would look
at the NXG BAS-500 subwoofer.
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/review-nxg-nx-bas-500-subwoofer-page-2

I would still think about going with 1 good sub, and save for another

Your call


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Im waiting for my $$$ to come in for this. Just preparing and listening to you guys for advice. I keep looking at svs and thinking about raising the budget for the subwoofer and wait a couple weeks to get rest of speakers. The max I can spend for the sub would be $700-800 max max. Ill check out thst sub right now.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

That ngx looks pretty good and would allow me to get my other speakers. Theres just so many subs out there hard to figure out what to get.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Guy said it gets weak at higher frequencies but the towers I get suposed to get down around 40hz. So I think that is a plus.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

BuddahX said:


> Im waiting for my $$$ to come in for this. Just preparing and listening to you guys for advice. I keep looking at svs and thinking about raising the budget for the subwoofer and wait a couple weeks to get rest of speakers. The max I can spend for the sub would be $700-800 max max. Ill check out thst sub right now.


I hate subwoofer budgets.

The difference between one and two subwoofers is startling. It's a "HUGE" upgrade in sound quality. In pairs, bigger is better.

SVS has an excellent reputation from bottom to top and discounts can be had if purchasing duals or outlet specials. Dual SB1000s are a bit more than your max budget of $800.00 but the sound quality is worth it if you can push your budget a bit more.

Personally, I feel, based on your budget, the above is the best thing going for output and depth of extension.

Sealed for depth of extension. If a large room ported for output.

If feeling lucky, try the classified here and on AVS. You may find a better deal for a pair of SVS subwoofers.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

950 for the pair. And they'll get the lower frequincies for movies even though there sealed? I know sealed gives you better response and clarity and ported gets the lower deep bass. For the most part. Ive been thinking trying sealed subs. My last sub was a diy one I built. Was single 15" with dual 15" radiators tuned to 15hz. That thing hit so hard n low. Only thing was it was huge. Was like 18x21x62 tall. Was caroonish big for my room in setup. Lol. Oh n my room is 17x17 sealed. No hallways n 2 doors. If that helps any for recomendations.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Those svs looks amazing. Just so much money...... definitely a purchase I shouldnt take lightly. Lol.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

Since your budget has gone from $500 to $800, there are A LOT of choices in this range. Luckily, very good quality home theater subs do start at the $500 level. Here are my suggestions for you to look into, research and figure out how much you want to spend. Remember that no matter how much you spend, there will always be a sub just a little better for another $100.

At $500:
SVS PB1000, ported 10"
Reaction Audio BPS212 Turbo, sealed dual 12"(your room should start providing gain around 33Hz)

At $600:
Rythmik LV12R, a very good 12" ported sub with servo technology.
HSU VTF2.4, probably one of the longest standing internet direct subwoofer companies(owned by Dr. Hsu who got his doctorate at MIT and has specialized in making subs for many years)
SVS-PB12-NSD, last years 12" ported sub if you can find it in the outlet section.

At $800:
PSA XV15, probably the highest output sub under $800, 15", ported
SVS PB2000, brand new model by SVS, 12" ported
HSU VTF3.4, 12" ported, most adjustable sub of the bunch.

In your price range, these are the subs you may want to look at.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Thank you and everyone else so much. Im sure I would of got the wrong sub and be disappointed without your help. Ill read the details on those three.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

BuddahX said:


> Oh n my room is 17x17 sealed. No hallways n 2 doors. If that helps any for recomendations.


The basic rule of thumb is, ported for output and volume in large rooms.

Sealed for music and depth of extension.

In the case of your 17' x 17' room, my understanding, you'll start getting room gain around 33Hz. Two sealed subs in that room will give you lots of bottom.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I have some expensive car audio equipment that im going to sell to get more money. I decided to go with your idea with the 2 svs. Think thats the best bet. Thanks for all the help.


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## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

If you decide to run sealed subs, another option I would throw out there is the PSA XS15 for $749. They have a very shallow rolloff compared to many sealed subs at or below that price. What this means is that, with room gain, they will have much higher output below 30 Hz compared to many other sealed subs with steeper rolloffs.

http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0153/1797/files/XS15_room_gain.jpg?1275


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Would that compair to 2 sealed subwoofers?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

BuddahX said:


> Would that compair to 2 sealed subwoofers?


No.

That's not a knock on the XS15 or it's recommendation. In the end, it's all about the Benjamins and how many of them one has to throw at this conundrum.

The idea of two subwoofers, is about spreading subwoofer love all around the room to smooth out the room response. Some like to "claim" that a user can successful smooth room modes at several listening positions with a single well placed subwoofer, but oddly, nobody has posted graphs to back up their claims when asked to walk the talk.

The ideal minimum is three subwoofers with four subwoofers being an even better idea. As one can easily see, things get kinky real fast when trying to find both the money and the room to thoughtfully place three or four subwoofers in a listening room and still pass the (WAF) wife approval factor. With the WAF in mind, usually two is the limit with a possibility of a well hidden third subwoofer but after that, it's reasonable to expect marital fireworks.

For our room, I've found two subwoofers work the best with one placed nearfield at the back of the MLP and the second one across from the listening seating. One subwoofer sounds great. With the addition of a second subwoofer, the sonic quality of the subwoofers produced sound, comes alive. The difference is literally night and day.

Working with the XS15 recommendation, buying one now and a second one later is an excellent recommendation to give serious thought to as subwoofers are one of the few items in life, where money can buy happiness and more is better.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

2 of those are way outta budget. Lol. My reciever is a 7.1. Whats the best way to incorporate the second sub. Just use a y adapter I would imagine.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Oh and I dont have a WAF problem. Im free to do as I please. ^_^


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

BuddahX said:


> 2 of those are way outta budget. Lol. My reciever is a 7.1. Whats the best way to incorporate the second sub. Just use a y adapter I would imagine.


Yes, a "Y" adapter is the standard solution. As to out of budget issues, that's why the recommendation of buy one now and at a later date, as soon as possible, buy a second subwoofer.

In the case of subwoofers, it's the rare individual who complains about buying too much woofage.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

At 800 and lower you'll also have definitive super cubes, bowers 8" and maybe 10", Martin Logan Dynamo700 and lower subs to choose from. 

I'm a big fan of Logan's 700 it's wireless if needed. High waf. Deep and smooth. The bowers is also a very tonal sub.


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