# New living room/home theater build



## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Hello everyone,

I am having a new home built in which my home theater area will be in the living room and I need to decide the locations for in wall wiring and speaker placement for 7 channels. I will also pre-wire for 4 sub connections and may pre-wire for heights/wides. Also anyone's insight on pre-wiring for ethernet If anyone has experience with a similar room. I would love to get your input. 










This is a picture of the same room showing what will be front right of the MLP. I have to keep all speakers on the front wall. I'm still undecided if I will use bipolar tower speakers front L&R or direct radiating bookshelf matching the height of the center channel speaker. I plan of having the front L&R's around 4' left and right of center line of the room due to the arched opening to the hallway.










All advice and opinions are appreciated! Anything you can think of that you would do before the drywall is up that you kick yourself for not doing? Also, I plan on using a satellite dish, any idea's on pre-wiring the exterior for a clean installation?

Thanks and have a great day!


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

You are asking about pre-wiring the room, but it looks like the room is already finished. Is that what the room _will_ look like, or is it already finished? :scratch:

Here is Audyssey's speaker placement recommendation for 9.1 and 11.1. I have 7.1 and have yet to install height/width speakers, so I can't state anything from firsthand experience.

I would run Cat5E for ethernet; we usually run it directly from a router installed where the main connection terminates. Also, make sure that you use the correct wire for the subs. RG6 coaxial wire is what we used when the sub was connected to LFE outputs. That allows the cable to be terminated with RCA ends so that you don't have to use speaker wire to connect the subwoofers. This, of course, depends on how you plan on connecting the subs. If you are going to connect the subwoofers in the back with speaker wire, then run speaker wire. If in doubt (and if possible) run speaker wire AND RG6 as that allows for later upgrades and flexibility.

Please feel free to ask any other questions. I hope that this helps, but I'm sure someone has actually installed a 9.1/11.1 system and can offer firsthand insight.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

wgmontgomery said:


> You are asking about pre-wiring the room, but it looks like the room is already finished. Is that what the room will look like, or is it already finished? :scratch:
> 
> Here is Audyssey's speaker placement recommendation for 9.1 and 11.1. I have 7.1 and have yet to install height/width speakers, so I can't state anything from firsthand experience.
> 
> ...


Thanks WG, 

That's a different home with the same floor plan, my place is just getting past the foundation.

I using RG6 the preferred method over pre-made sub cables that already have the rca terminations already attached or is it just because it's easier to pull the RG6 without connectors on them? 

Thanks so much!

Todd


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

toddriffic said:


> Thanks WG,
> 
> That's a different home with the same floor plan, my place is just getting past the foundation.
> 
> ...


It's usually easier to pull RG6 and then terminate it than it is to pull a terminated cable. The terminated cable's contacts can break when pulled, too. RG6 is shielded, works great as a sub cable and can cost less than some "subwoofer" cables.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks again WG,

I thought it would be a good idea to have a telephone jack installed where the av gear will be so I can place the dsl router at that location and hardwire the gear and then send cat5e from there to a few other locations in the house. See any flaw in that idea?

I guess it would be simpler to have the builder run the RG6 they are familiar with for the subs rather then try to have them use my current 50ft and 35ft sub cables. I have terminated RG6 in the past for a satellite self install, but I am unfamiliar with terminating them with a rca connection. Any tips from your experience would be appreciated. 

I also like the "just in case" factor of also running speaker wire to the sub locations in case I went bonkers and decided I had to have in-wall subs.  

A lot of people talk about running conduit so you can future proof your install, but aside from where you run HDMI which could be possibly replaced due to 4k adoption or something similar, I don't see where I would need to replace Cat5e or 6 Ethernet and speaker wire with anything else? I poise this because I have a very modest budget to play with.

Thanks again and have a great day!


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

You can buy RCA compression fittings for RG6. My preference is to use F connectors on the wall plate and make a F-RCA cable for the wall to the sub out of a more flexible RG59 using compression connectors for both the F and RCA ends. You can also use a feedthrough F-RCA adapter on the wall plate and just use rca cables to the sub from the wall.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

lcaillo said:


> You can buy RCA compression fittings for RG6. My preference is to use F connectors on the wall plate and make a F-RCA cable for the wall to the sub out of a more flexible RG59 using compression connectors for both the F and RCA ends. You can also use a feedthrough F-RCA adapter on the wall plate and just use rca cables to the sub from the wall.



Thank you very much lcaillo, 

I'll check into that. Great Quote btw!


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

lcaillo said:


> You can buy RCA compression fittings for RG6. My preference is to use F connectors on the wall plate and make a F-RCA cable for the wall to the sub out of a more flexible RG59 using compression connectors for both the F and RCA ends. You can also use a feedthrough F-RCA adapter on the wall plate and just use rca cables to the sub from the wall.


+1 on that. Since you are on a tight budget, they do make screw-on F to RCA adapters, but I like compression fittings better, too.

As long as you have home runs (an un-spliced cable ran directly from the source) from the router with Cat5E (or 6E) you should be fine.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

It's been a while since I bought one, but a generic compression crimper is about $30 or so at Parts Express or even Home Depot.

Not guaranteed to work with all brands, but for the Ideal (HD carries it) it works and even on some F-Conn (Parts Express). For reliability purposes, I would go that route over screw on any day.

Good luck.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Thanks guys for the help. I went to the builders design center to designate the options for the home and I was the only guy there. They really struggled with the concept of a 9.4 system, but we eventually got through it.

I guess these crimpers would work?

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=150-736


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

toddriffic said:


> Thanks guys for the help. I went to the builders design center to designate the options for the home and I was the only guy there. They really struggled with the concept of a 9.4 system, but we eventually got through it.
> 
> I guess these crimpers would work?
> 
> http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=150-736


Yes, I think that would work fine. Compression fittings are better IMHO; you could also terminate the RG6 to a female RCA plug on a wall plate and run your sub cables from there. I believe someone suggested that in an earlier post.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

wgmontgomery said:


> Yes, I think that would work fine. Compression fittings are better IMHO; you could also terminate the RG6 to a female RCA plug on a wall plate and run your sub cables from there. I believe someone suggested that in an earlier post.


Yeah I think I'll do it just like that. The help is much appreciated!


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## Driver_King (Sep 19, 2009)

If you are needing to chose between height and wide speakers, wide speakers are proven to be the more noticeable improvement because the width cues are more readily picked up by the ears than the height speakers. By the way, nice job with the four subs! Make sure to raise them off the ground.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Driver_King said:


> If you are needing to chose between height and wide speakers, wide speakers are proven to be the more noticeable improvement because the width cues are more readily picked up by the ears than the height speakers.


Thanks for the input; that's good to know. :hail: 9.1 and 11.1 systems are fairly new*, so it's good to find members with firsthand experince.

*I remember Yamaha added 4(?) extra speakers (even in the Pro Logic days), but not many installs that I did used them. I some ways I'd bet that these "effect" speakers used by Yamaha and other manufactures were the precursors to the height and width speakers in the 9.1 and 11.1 systems.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Driver_King said:


> If you are needing to chose between height and wide speakers, wide speakers are proven to be the more noticeable improvement because the width cues are more readily picked up by the ears than the height speakers. By the way, nice job with the four subs! Make sure to raise them off the ground.


Yeah, I really wish I could have accommodated wide for sure, but alas it was not option.  I don't know when I will get around to installing heights, but I figured its best to have it wired during the build. I currently run dual matching subs and love the improvement I get from two subs in opposite corners and after reading Floyd Toole book, I can't get quad subs out of my head.  I've seen a few audiophile set ups where the subs where on risers, have you noticed or measured it to make a noticeable difference?

Thanks,
Todd


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

wgmontgomery said:


> Thanks for the input; that's good to know. :hail: 9.1 and 11.1 systems are fairly new*, so it's good to find members with firsthand experince.
> 
> *I remember Yamaha added 4(?) extra speakers (even in the Pro Logic days), but not many installs that I did used them. I some ways I'd bet that these "effect" speakers used by Yamaha and other manufactures were the precursors to the height and width speakers in the 9.1 and 11.1 systems.


Yeah, I remember flagship yamaha avrs's having height/presence/effect speakers going back quite a while. I think it was in conjunction with their dsp modes that where based on different real world theaters and concert halls.


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## Driver_King (Sep 19, 2009)

toddriffic said:


> Yeah, I really wish I could have accommodated wide for sure, but alas it was not option.  I don't know when I will get around to installing heights, but I figured its best to have it wired during the build. I currently run dual matching subs and love the improvement I get from two subs in opposite corners and after reading Floyd Toole book, I can't get quad subs out of my head.  I've seen a few audiophile set ups where the subs where on risers, have you noticed or measured it to make a noticeable difference?
> 
> Thanks,
> Todd


Quad subs is where it's at! Yes on the risers. I built a ~8" riser for my 12" subwoofer and noticed a significant difference in sound quality and noticed a volume gain as well. The same for my dual 18" subwoofer. Raising that subwoofer made a tremendous difference because a lot of energy was being lost to the floor and walls and muddied up the sound. I do believe I had at least a 3dB SPL gain as well. Here is the thread on DIY risers and information about them. Here are some examples of risers done right:

























Generally, results range from 2-3dB improvements all the way up to 5-6dB. The closer the subwoofer is to 25% away from the room boundaries (including the floor), the better the results are. That means for an 8' tall room, you would ideally want to raise the subwoofer anywhere from 1.5-2.5 feet. Just few inches will help reduce muddiness overall however compared to just sitting on the floor.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Driver_King said:


> Quad subs is where it's at! Yes on the risers. I built a ~8" riser for my 12" subwoofer and noticed a significant difference in sound quality and noticed a volume gain as well. The same for my dual 18" subwoofer. Raising that subwoofer made a tremendous difference because a lot of energy was being lost to the floor and walls and muddied up the sound. I do believe I had at least a 3dB SPL gain as well. Here is the thread on DIY risers and information about them. Here are some examples of risers done right:
> 
> Generally, results range from 2-3dB improvements all the way up to 5-6dB. The closer the subwoofer is to 25% away from the room boundaries (including the floor), the better the results are. That means for an 8' tall room, you would ideally want to raise the subwoofer anywhere from 1.5-2.5 feet. Just few inches will help reduce muddiness overall however compared to just sitting on the floor.


Wow King! Looks like you have a great setup there.  Thanks for the detailed response, I'll have some reading to do when I get home. Some of that reminds me of info from Toole's book.

Thanks,
Todd


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## Driver_King (Sep 19, 2009)

A lot of the inspiration for the risers stemmed from Toole's research. It really is amazing what a little tweak can do for your bass. Quad subwoofers with risers and proper boundary placement should yield excellent results.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Driver_King said:


> A lot of the inspiration for the risers stemmed from Toole's research. It really is amazing what a little tweak can do for your bass. Quad subwoofers with risers and proper boundary placement should yield excellent results.


Hey king, 

I noticed your surround back speakers are close together. Do you prefer that to having them a bit farther apart?


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## Driver_King (Sep 19, 2009)

toddriffic said:


> Hey king,
> 
> I noticed your surround back speakers are close together. Do you prefer that to having them a bit farther apart?


Oh, I'm sorry. Those pictures were of another forum member that also did risers. He does woodworking for a living so I thought his setup would give a good indication of risers done right. Here are some older pictures of my setup. The main things that changed are amplifiers and the DIY A7-900 subwoofer. That is in my other gallery on the link. If Polk made bipolar/dipolar surrounds that were matched the to tweeters and woofers of my front speakers, I'd have them. If I had a different setup, I would likely go with the Axiom QS8 quadpolar speakers for back and side surrounds. I do like having the rear surrounds in the far back corner of the wall because it adds a depth and spacious quality to the relatively direct monopole bookshelves.


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Driver_King said:


> Oh, I'm sorry. Those pictures were of another forum member that also did risers. He does woodworking for a living so I thought his setup would give a good indication of risers done right. Here are some older pictures of my setup. The main things that changed are amplifiers and the DIY A7-900 subwoofer. That is in my other gallery on the link. If Polk made bipolar/dipolar surrounds that were matched the to tweeters and woofers of my front speakers, I'd have them. If I had a different setup, I would likely go with the Axiom QS8 quadpolar speakers for back and side surrounds. I do like having the rear surrounds in the far back corner of the wall because it adds a depth and spacious quality to the relatively direct monopole bookshelves.


No problemo King,

I asked because I'm thinking my surround back wiring locations could be spread a bit too far. At my new place they are going to be 8' apart centered on a 17' wall. I experimented with my current set up last night. I used the sound of the Paramount logo stars circling the room from the opening of the Transformers 3 bluray as my test. My SBL & SBR are normally 6' apart centered along a 17' wall and the MLP is about 2' to 3' away from the back wall. I first used my wife to listen to the scene 3x's with the surround backs 6' apart and then 3x's with them 8' apart. I didn't tell her what I was doing behind her, just to listen to the sound pan around the room. I then repeated the test for myself and neither of use really noticed a difference with that scene. The builder charges a fee to make any changes to the plans and I've got a couple of weeks before they install the electrical and wiring to decide if I want to change it.

Thanks again!
Todd


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## toddriffic (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi everyone,

I'm a month out from getting into my new house that's being pre-wired for 9.4 and thought this might be good for a laugh! I'm close to the house and check up on it while walking the dogs. While I'm not 
opposed to speakers in the master bath per se, I am opposed to listening to my center, left and right channels from a separate room when I'm in the MLP.


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