# Cedar Creek Cinema: Ultra Loaded



## Sonnie

I am pretty close to having my Ultra Loaded Cedar Creek Cinema finished. All I lack are the 4 Prime Satellite speakers for the ceiling to get Dolby Atmos setup, but not a big hurry, since there are so few titles released with the Atmos encoding. I hope to have that done in the next 30-60 days. The Prime Satellites have been flying out the door so fast (which is a good thing), that I can't seem to get my hands on any at the moment... but soon enough.

I have removed the built-in riser eighteens and columns, and refinished the walls with a texture. Had the room torn completely apart here for a while, but I am back enjoying it again.

Otherwise... SVS Ultra Towers, Ultra Center, Ultra Bookshelfs for surrounds... and a pair of PB13-Ultras for the sub duties. The system is controlled and powered by a Marantz SR7009 and Parasound HALO A31... with the OPPP 105 as the main source for music and movies. 

How does it sound? Incredible... come listen for yourself. This has become as much a listening room for music as it is for theater... and it truly rivals some of the best I have heard anywhere.

You can see the full round of pics here: http://www.cedarcreekcinema.ws ... but here are a few shots for the thread.


----------



## JBrax

Happy Thanksgiving Sonnie and the room looks great! What time is the turkey being served because I'd like to give it a listen. That was a open invitation and today seems like a good day.


----------



## Sonnie

Thanks Jeff... about to head on out there now and enjoy a few hours... c'mon down!


----------



## JBrax

I wish but enjoy your time in the room.


----------



## willis7469

Looks great sonnie! Someday, I'll have a rig like that! Enjoy, and happy thanksgiving.


----------



## B- one

Looks great! How do you plan to mount the Prime satellites?


----------



## Sonnie

Happy Thanksgiving to you guys too!

I plan to use the Paradigm MB-60 ... low profile... to mount the Prime Satellites. They are ordered and on their way to me now.


----------



## B- one

Those look like great mounts!


----------



## Dwight Angus

The room looks amazing Sonnie. Cheers!


----------



## AudiocRaver

My, you have been busy, Sonnie. Cannot wait to hear the new sound.


----------



## Tonto

Happy Thanksgiving Sonnie, the room looks great & I can only imagine how it must sound! I really like the way the back of the room looks now. It draws much better attention to itself now. Will it be 7.2.4? Just seeing the surrounds almost in the corner.

From what I'm hearing, Atomos is doing a nice job with surround sound with non-Atmos tracks. You'll have to give us another opinion. Hope you have a Merry Christmas & Happy New Year as well.


----------



## Sonnie

Thanks again guys. 

Yeah, Tonto... while I said I am in no big hurry to get the Prime Satellites, I am indeed anxious to hear the Atmos setup on non Atmos encoded tracks. I have read the same thing... that it improves on the sound.

I think I am going to leave it at 5.2.4 for now, since going to 7.2.4 would require moving the surrounds further up the wall. Having Atmos should be me enough added effects without going from 5 to 7 and adding rears. But who knows what I may do... I am always up to something. :bigsmile:


----------



## Tonto

I have not read much about the Primes. What I have read has been good. Are they rear ported? Do you know the specs on dispersion? Not much to choose from yet from the main speaker manufactures as far as Atmos "on ceiling" speakers. Timber matching should be a paramount concern with how the sound pans across the room...to my thinking anyway. I would think the first company to produce true, on-ceiling, for Atmos speakers will have the jump on everybody else. I'm personally thinking a small, rectangule MTM design would be most appealing.


----------



## Sonnie

Yes... they are rear ported, but that will have basically no effect with the crossover at 80Hz. No dispersion specs... just what we have on the site under Tech Specs. With the mounts I am using, these will be very close to "on-ceiling" and I can angle them in slightly.


----------



## Tonto

Yeah, most can be plugged as well, so still not such a big deal. Looking forward to hearing your impressions. My attic crawl space is tiny by the time I get over there...will have to improvise to get my speaker wire pulled.


----------



## Talley

Good looking room. 

Why so much absorption and no diffusion?


----------



## Sonnie

The rear corner trap have scatter plates for diffusion... as well as I have a couple of diffusion panels up front. I just don't think diffusion is needed as much as reducing the worst reflections.


----------



## Peter Loeser

I think you'll be very pleased with 5.2.4. The height channels will be a much more noticeable change than rear surrounds IMO.

I wouldn't worry too much about dispersion since your mounts will allow your Primes to pivot some. Have you considered how you'll orient them, since they're not a concentric woofer/tweeter design?

I also agree with the statements that Dolby Surround does an excellent job of enhancing non-Atmos soundtracks. That alone has made the upgrade worthwhile for me. I think we are still a ways from seeing what can really be done with an Atmos mix for home theater.


----------



## Sonnie

I plan to angle them slightly towards the main listening position. I don't think it will make a huge difference in the design aspects of the speakers. You gotta figure my surrounds are at a strange angle to my listening position as well. If it were for stereo music listening I might be concerned... but for overhead surround, I think we will be fine.


----------



## Talley

My room is a rectangle 14x20 and unfortunately is not dedicated and I must have my projector on the long wall with a couch up against the opposite wall. This means my surrounds will be on my sided not back.

at least yours is ideal for your center seats.


----------



## Peter Loeser

Will you toe them in at all, i.e. angle relative to the side walls? Just curious, not sure whether that would make a difference or not. Might depend on where you sit.


----------



## Peter Loeser

Bmxer241 said:


> My room is a rectangle 14x20 and unfortunately is not dedicated and I must have my projector on the long wall with a couch up against the opposite wall. This means my surrounds will be on my sided not back.
> 
> at least yours is ideal for your center seats.


Nothing wrong with having the surrounds on the side walls. That is pretty normal.


----------



## Sonnie

I think I am using the terminology "angle" as you are "toe-in". They will be angled/toed in slightly towards the listening position. I suspect they will also be rotated slightly.


----------



## Peter Loeser

Understood. Makes sense, and probably where I'd start too. Although I'm happy with my install, you're probably smarter going with an on-ceiling vs in-ceiling, if your attic is anything like mine, and it sounds like it is. How will you run the wire up to them?


----------



## Sonnie

I have a pipe running up the wall... with a pull wire. I can drill a hole in the ceiling, which will be much mo betta than trying to cut holes.


----------



## Peter Loeser

Sonnie said:


> I have a pipe running up the wall... with a pull wire. I can drill a hole in the ceiling, which will be much mo betta than trying to cut holes.


And here I was assuming a hillbilly like you would have just duct-taped them to the walls. :R

In all seriousness though, CCC looks awesome. No doubt well worth the effort you've put into it over the years.


----------



## Tonto

You can always cut a small rectangle to accomodate those electrical boxes. They make them with fold out wings that grip behind the sheetrock (so you dont need a stud). You can mount a faceplate with a bannana receptacle & plug your speaker right in. That would give a bit more working room to pull wire.


----------



## Sonnie

I would have to cut thru 5/8" sheetrock, 3/4" plywood, and 1/2" sheetrock... so a very small drill hole that the round jacket speaker wire fits in will work a whole lot easier for me. I'll stick some black heat shrink around the speaker wire and with the black ceiling you'll never know its there. 

Uh... yeah... hillbilly style. :bigsmile:

I luv my duct tape too!


----------



## NBPk402

Sonnie said:


> I would have to cut thru 5/8" sheetrock, 3/4" plywood, and 1/2" sheetrock... so a very small drill hole that the round jacket speaker wire fits in will work a whole lot easier for me. I'll stick some black heat shrink around the speaker wire and with the black ceiling you'll never know its there.
> 
> Uh... yeah... hillbilly style. :bigsmile:
> 
> I luv my duct tape too!


Gaffers tape... :T


----------



## luisv

Great looking room and now that you've had the SVS Ultra speakers for a few months I'm curious as to your thoughts. Still as happy with them since you first set them up? Do you feel there is room for improvement? Any additional thoughts would be appreciated as I'm auditioning speakers and the Ultras are also on my list. I'm also looking into Ascend Acoustics Towers with the RAAL tweeters and matching Horizon center. For the last 16+ years, I've been using B&W 804 Matrix speakers within my system and I'm finally getting the itch to try something new. It's not a dedicated room, but I do have various panels and traps throughout. Main use is HT, but we do enjoy listening to music; however, my critical listening habits are few and far between watching movies. Room is roughly 17 x 19.


----------



## Sonnie

I don't have the SVS speakers any longer (I don't keep anything very long being in the audio business), but I can attest to the fact they are next to the best speakers I have had in my room... only surpassed by the $10K MartinLogan Montis... and then not by very much of a margin. I don't think you will go wrong with them. Plus... if you are in the U.S. you can try them out for 45 days... it's risk free. As with any speaker... for critical music listening, placement is a key factor. Not nearly as critical for movies, and the Ultras are absolutely killer on movies too.


----------



## Talley

luisv said:


> Great looking room and now that you've had the SVS Ultra speakers for a few months I'm curious as to your thoughts. Still as happy with them since you first set them up? Do you feel there is room for improvement? Any additional thoughts would be appreciated as I'm auditioning speakers and the Ultras are also on my list. I'm also looking into Ascend Acoustics Towers with the RAAL tweeters and matching Horizon center. For the last 16+ years, I've been using B&W 804 Matrix speakers within my system and I'm finally getting the itch to try something new. It's not a dedicated room, but I do have various panels and traps throughout. Main use is HT, but we do enjoy listening to music; however, my critical listening habits are few and far between watching movies. Room is roughly 17 x 19.


A...M...A...Z...E...D......

The Ultra system explained in 6 words 

...until I hear better.


----------



## luisv

Thanks for the input. I took a look at your build and I have the same sub and projector. :T


----------



## luisv

Sonnie said:


> I don't have the SVS speakers any longer (I don't keep anything very long being in the audio business), but I can attest to the fact they are next to the best speakers I have had in my room... only surpassed by the $10K MartinLogan Montis... and then not by very much of a margin. I don't think you will go wrong with them. Plus... if you are in the U.S. you can try them out for 45 days... it's risk free. As with any speaker... for critical music listening, placement is a key factor. Not nearly as critical for movies, and the Ultras are absolutely killer on movies too.


Curious what you have in there now and if you have ever listened to the Tekton Pendragons.


----------



## Sonnie

Right now I have a the MartinLogan ESLs with a Stage X and Motion 12's in the rear.

These Spatial Hologram M1's we have in hear for our amp evaluation event sound pretty good too. As noted... I don't keep anything for very long.

Never have heard the Pendragons... but have heard the Model Lores. They were a bit forward for my liking. As with any speaker, I highly recommend auditioning them in your own room.


----------



## luisv

Yes, for sure... an in home audition is best, so I was just curious if you heard the Pendragons in your room.


----------



## mluc8

I am considering the SVS Ultra Towers and Ultra Center and was wondering if anyone had compared them to the B & W 683 S2 and the Martin Logan Motion 40's.
I've heard the B&Ws and liked them but have never heard the Motion 40s.
The Ultras seem like a lot more speaker than the other two but I've never heard them either.
I have a Marantz SR6005 AVR, 7 x 100 watts.
Any comments and opinions would be much appreciated. 

Mark


----------



## luisv

I haven't heard the ML Motion 40s in my room, but when I auditioned them at a retailer, to my ears, they sounded better than the B&W 600 series within the same room and electronics. I also listened to the B&W CM 10 S2 in that same room with the same electronics and felt it was the best from that particular national retailer. I performed both audio and HT listening with their corresponding matching centers.

To give you some in room feedback, over the course of three of weeks, I auditioned my B&Ws, the SVS Ultra Tower and Center along with the Ascend Acoustic Sierra Towers and Horizon Center with RAAL tweeters. It was a great couple of weeks and my wife participated within the audition process. It might not have been the most scientific of auditions, but I did take the time to situate each speaker in my room, mark the floor with tape and therefore when switching speakers out I had reference marks for placement. I also took Dirac measurements with each trio and saved / applied the filters appropriately so they were properly setup for HT. For audio purposes, I listed in reference stereo to eliminate any tweaking of the speakers via Dirac. I tried to get as even as a playing field as I could... but I'm no pro. :T

Hands down, the Ultra towers had the most bass of the 3 speakers and presented a fuller HT experience, but musically, I felt that my 16+ year old B&Ws and Ascends sounded better. Not saying the SVS were not up to the task, in fact for the money they performed very well. They didn't provide as wide as a sound stage, but again, without the direct comparison, they performed very well. To my ears, the Ascend Horizon center was the the best of the bunch... dynamics and vocally it was fantastic. Unfortunately I had issues with the Sierra Towers. Although they had a wider audio presentation than the B&Ws and seemed more detailed, I just couldn't listen to them for longer than 20mins or so without experiencing hearing discomfort... wife was more sensitive than I. I provided room measurements to Ascend, moved acoustic panels around, tried various speaker placements with different degrees of toe in / toe out, but we couldn't figure it out. So I returned the Ascend trio. Between the SVS and B&Ws, I opted to stick with my B&Ws as there wasn't enough for me to justify the expense of the swap. Again, that being said... if I didn't have the B&Ws I would have kept the SVS Ultras... they do indeed sound very good. 

As with all speaker reviews, feedback etc. nothing beats your own ears... so you owe it to yourself to try out the SVS Ultras in your room as SVS gives you an in-home basically no questions asked 45 day trial. My entire experience with SVS was great... I received them quickly and the return was just as fast. 

Below are some pictures when I moving them into place and was doing initial side by side listening. I eventually moved them in and out of the room to perform expended listening sessions. In one of the pics you'll see a B&W CM Center 2 S2 as I was toying with the idea of going with B&Ws CM line; however, I ran out of time so I returned it. The small time I had with it, it sounded rather good.

Any questions, feel free to ask...


----------



## mluc8

Luisv thank you very much for your thoughts on the SVS Ultras. It helped with my decision to buy them. I ordered the Ultra Towers and Ultra Center on Thursday and am very excited waiting for delivery on Tuesday l hope.
This sure is a fun hobby, expensive but fun.
Thanks again!


----------



## luisv

Great, glad you found the info helpful. Once they arrive, please post up your opinions / thoughts on them.


----------



## mluc8

Ok I purchased the SVS Ultra Towers and the Ultra Center and am pretty happy with them, especially with movies. I am driving them with an Outlaw 7200 so they really sing. I'm using a pair of Vanderstein Model 1B's for the surrounds but would like to replace them with SVS speakers. I'm thinking about the SVS Ultra Bookshelf speaker but then I got thinking about the SVS Prime Towers. 
Any thoughts as to which might sound better, match the Ultra Towers, etc.?


----------



## Sonnie

Either will match up tonally, because SVS designed them that way... as well as they are ambiance speakers for the most part. I have used both (back and forth between higher mounted bookshelves/wall speakers and floorstanding... with several different models) and have not been able to tell a difference either way. I think it comes down to your personal preference.


----------



## Talley

mluc8 said:


> Ok I purchased the SVS Ultra Towers and the Ultra Center and am pretty happy with them, especially with movies. I am driving them with an Outlaw 7200 so they really sing. I'm using a pair of Vanderstein Model 1B's for the surrounds but would like to replace them with SVS speakers. I'm thinking about the SVS Ultra Bookshelf speaker but then I got thinking about the SVS Prime Towers.
> Any thoughts as to which might sound better, match the Ultra Towers, etc.?


I bought sonnie's ultra system and couldn't be happier. For my understanding the tweeters on both ultras and primes are identical. I'm running the ultra bookshelfs and I see no issue with these as a surround speaker. I suppose you could buy two prime bookshelfs for the same price as one ultra. Honestly for the surrounds I think the Prime bookshelfs would be a good match and only set you back 500 bucks


----------



## luisv

Here's another option... their new Prime Elevation speaker. 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...prime-elevation-speaker-debut-ces-2016-a.html


----------

