# Poor longevity of CDs burned from computers



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

I’ve noticed that CDs burned from computers don’t last nearly as long as “factory” CDs. They seem to be prone to hanging, “picket fencing,” difficulty searching and other anomalies. I’ve had some given to me by friends that would start acting up the second time I played it!

So, what’s the deal with this? Is it that some CD players aren’t as robust as others with their playback? E.g., car players vs. home players?

Or maybe, does it have anything to do with the actual burn process? I wonder if burning at a slower speed would make a difference – say, at 8x vs. 24x.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## morca (Aug 26, 2011)

I always did my burning on 8x speed,higher speed,s give,s more error,s burning.
Faster burning always give,s problems for longer use.
I also used the black disc,s ,do you know them.
The burn whit less error.


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## Harpmaker (Oct 28, 2007)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I’ve noticed that CDs burned from computers don’t last nearly as long as “factory” CDs. They seem to be prone to hanging, “picket fencing,” difficulty searching and other anomalies. I’ve had some given to me by friends that would start acting up the second time I played it!


While I have lucked out and never had much problem with PC burned CD's, the simple fact is that NO such media (CD, DVD, BD) should really be classified as "archival" and expected to be good for the long run. When I first got into DVD recording off TV/Cable (recorded on two different dedicated set-top DVD recorders) I found out the hard way about this. In 6 months to a year I lost the contents of over 100 DVD's! :hissyfit:



> So, what’s the deal with this? Is it that some CD players aren’t as robust as others with their playback? E.g., car players vs. home players?


The problem can be almost anywhere in the record/playback chain. The recorder, player, or disc may be at fault (any one, or even all three). The reason commercial discs are more reliable than recorded discs is because the commercial ones are stamped and not burned. The basic reflection layer is made from metallic aluminum in which holes are literally made to form the "pits" to give reduced reflectance (which I believe are binary zero's in the data stream). On a burned disc this layer is really a chemical dye that becomes darker when it is exposed to the burning laser. Rather than there being a literal hole in the layer the laser just makes a spot darker than it's surrounding. As the disc ages (or is exposed to heat/light) the surrounding area can darken enough so that the player can no longer tell what part is supposed to be a hole and problems start. And then of course there can be a problem with tracking from the get-go.

CD's have less of a problem than DVD's because their "holes" are much larger than a DVD "hole". The same applies to BD discs.

If you really want the low-down on this there are people that specialize in studying data quality and retention, just search for them with your favorite search engine.



> Or maybe, does it have anything to do with the actual burn process? I wonder if burning at a slower speed would make a difference – say, at 8x vs. 24x.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Yes, slowing the burn speed down can help a lot, but it won't make a bad disc a good one and will only help produce a decent disc; it won't help the dye layer not darken. The one thing I do remember is that CMC was always considered a bad brand for CD's and DVD's. This may have changed, but I wouldn't bet on it. Also the brand that is on the disc may not be the company that made it! There are CD/DVD identification programs available that will give you this info.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-R 
Pretty much everything you never wanted to know about the subject.


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## Harro (Oct 14, 2013)

Just for this reason (longevity) have I gone to a NAS for saving my files and such. Even when I burned at low rpm I still had a lot of cd's unusable a year done the road.


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

Harro said:


> Just for this reason (longevity) have I gone to a NAS for saving my files and such. Even when I burned at low rpm I still had a lot of cd's unusable a year done the road.


I've noticed that too but my time span is in realm of 3 to 4 years. I also noticed that addhereing printable lables to CD's drastically reduced their shelflife compared to that of using a sharpy.


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## ericzim (Jun 24, 2012)

I have an LG combo Drive that supports M-Disk; guaranteed archival copy for 1000 years.

From the web:
The M-DISC™ is composed of chemically stable and heat-resistant materials that are not used in any other DVD or optical disc. Data is engraved into the M-DISC™ by physically altering the recording layer and creating permanent pits or voids in the disc, preserving your files forever.

Because of its permanent makeup, M-DISC™ is not affected by temperature, humidity, or sunlight. On the contrary, DVDs and optical drives use organic dyes that begin to fade and decay the moment you record your information, resulting in corrupt and unreadable data over time.

I have a few M-Disks that I have burned/engraved over the last 3/4 years with pictures and home video that I just wouldn't trust on chemical dye based burn media.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks for the replies, everyone – lots of useful information! :T 

Perhaps should have mentioned that I’m primarily burning CDs for music playback, although it’s good to know the longevity issue is also relevant for data discs.

Great Wiki article that chasint linked – great information on different disc types and their dyes. It seems that if you want a “forever” CD-R, then it needs to be gold, or at least use discs with Azo dye. It appears that gold discs run about $3 each – not cheap, but still affordable if you care enough about what you’re putting on it.

The M-Disc looks even more impressive, but I don’t think my burner can use them.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

I have transferred a good percentage of my vinyl collection to digital, and have a good number of burnt CD-Rs that are between 4-5 years old. To date I've only had one go bad, and it was a disc that had an adhesive label. I've inspected my other discs that have adhesive labels and they were fine. I stopped using adhesive labels, and now use inkjet printable discs.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Since USB flash drives started surfacing and finding USB ports everywhere... on DAC's, Processors, Receivers, BD/CD Players, in my vehicles... I no longer need burnt disc. 

My 64GB USB thumb drive holds about all the music I care to listen to... in .wav lossless format at that. I can add and remove as I so desire without having to burn another disc. I plug it into my OPPO 105 player, which has Gracenote. I could just plug it into my Onkyo 5509.

I purchased a few of the mini USB flash drives for our vehicles. Angie and I copy the .mp3 files to those and stick them in the vehicle... thousands of songs on a drive. Very sortable with folders, artist, genre... whatever you want.

I use dBpoweramp to extract from the CD straight the drive for home use (.wav). For the car we just copy it over from our HDD where all of our CD's are stored as .mp3 files.

No need to worry with the disc... and it is a lot easier to tote a USB drive than a CD anyway... and nothing to store. One USB drive is all you need. Even the last aftermarket car headunit I purchased had a USB port right on the front.


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## informel (Jun 21, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I’ve noticed that CDs burned from computers don’t last nearly as long as “factory” CDs.
> Regards,
> Wayne


The reason is quite simple

The CD that you make are 'burn' the laser heat the surface of the CD and the color of change on the surface, so if you leave those CD in your car on a hot day in a parking lot, you will basically 'format' your CD (it happened to me)

The CD that you buy are engrave, the engraver makes small holes on the surface


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## ninouchka (Jan 19, 2014)

Nothing last forever, that's why I say backup. Go the external HDD way and Usb sticks.
More fullproof if contained correctly.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Harpmaker said:


> The problem can be almost anywhere in the record/playback chain. The recorder, player, or disc may be at fault (any one, or even all three).


 Based on advice culled from this thread I acquired some of the gold discs rated for archiving, for making music CDs. But lately I’m finding issues with the disc burner itself. 

I recently burned a few music CDs as "throwaways," so I could spend some time listening to the music and make sure I like it enough to burn them to a “archive” disc (since they’re not as cheap as the regular ones). I used the burner in my ancient Compaq Evo N600 laptop (circa 2000 I think). The "throwaways" have all been playing fine. In fact, I’ve burned several music CDs on this computer in the past when it was my main computer, using standard discs, and they have all held up very well.

By contrast, a while back I converted two of my favorite LP’s to CD and burned the discs using my late-model Dell laptop. Neither disc made it all the way through before it started acting up. And a week or so I burned another disc with the Dell and it was messing up on the first song.

So apparently not all burners are created equal! I think I’m going to hold on to that Compaq...

Regards,
Wayne


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