# I think I made a huge mistake with BOSE...



## derneustart (Nov 7, 2012)

Hey guys, been reading quite a lot around here and want to tell you my short story now:

Heard some BOSE Acoustimass 15 in a friends house a couple of years ago, he had the 4 Cubes in the corners of the leaving room and the subwoofer and center somewhere on the front wall, it just sounded awesome for me, so since then I wanted to buy BOSE equipment for my house. So finally last year I could buy a Combo that includes the Acoustimass 5 Serie III system along with a Pioner HM50 amp, after I got it I wasnt ver convinced with the sound, tried the amp at stores with different set-ups and didn't like it so I thought the problem was the amp, though I didn't have money to change them in that moment.

The curious thing is that my brother in law has the same acoustimass and decided to make it 5.1 buying rear speakers from another brand and a High-End Amp, his set-up sounded also awesome, so long story short, I was thinking on changing the amp this year and buying 2 more cubes to convert my system, here's when the surprise comes...

Reading and reading reviews found out that the sound problem seems to not to be from the amp, I got blinded by the Brand and have now a 1000€ system that sounds like...lets say not as I expected and dont know what to do!

So the question is, which sound system do you recommend me? I don't want to spend much more money though the thing is, would you recommend me to actually expand the acoustimass and convert it to 5.1 with a new AM15 subwoofer (200€ used) and a couple of cubes (150€ in ebay) plus a new high-end amp? would this give me a nice high fidelity sound? or should I just put it in ebay (hoping not to loose tons of money on it) and get something else?

Thanks for reading!!


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

I recommend buying a pair of better speakers for your main front left and right speakers and a nice receiver. You can run the Bose as your surrounds and your rear speakers. Are you running a center channel?

Another option would be keep the Pioneer and add another amp to drive just the new front speakers. The Pioneer would run everything else.

This isn't the best solutiion but a good one to keep what you have and just add to it.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I would sell off any and all Bose you have in your HT as it does have pretty decent resale value. In addition, what can be purchased for the diminished returns from the Bose would be far superior if chosen carefully.
Cheers,
JJ


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## derneustart (Nov 7, 2012)

Wardsweb said:


> I recommend buying a pair of better speakers for your main front left and right speakers and a nice receiver. You can run the Bose as your surrounds and your rear speakers. Are you running a center channel?
> 
> Another option would be keep the Pioneer and add another amp to drive just the new front speakers. The Pioneer would run everything else.
> 
> This isn't the best solutiion but a good one to keep what you have and just add to it.


Hey! quick response, thank you very much! I was thinking on spending on a Good receiver, though I don´t know much about them, I´m between this ones:

Kenwood RV-7000
Onkyo nr414-75913
Denon AVR2113

I´m not running any center channels right now and I actually don´t like that Amp at all, I just wanted to "recycle" the AM6 and add some stuff to it, either convert it to a AM15, or just add a center and 2 stereo speakers from another brand that would sound good, I´m looking for great sounding, though for what I´ve read in this forum, I´m not getting it from Bose... The thing is I don´t actually want to spend tons of money right now, but my idea was, if I can buy a good amp and very good speakers, maybe later I could replace the Bose for another great speakers and then have the "final system", either that, or simply convert it to a AM15 and keep it, though I don´t know how better or "hi-fi" will it sound!



Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I would sell off any and all Bose you have in your HT as it does have pretty decent resale value. In addition, what can be purchased for the diminished returns from the Bose would be far superior if chosen carefully.
> Cheers,
> JJ


That´s what I´m talking about, I found a pair of new cubes for 140$, the subwoofer for 200$, and only got the center missing, but if you compare spending maybe 400$ to convert your AM5 into an AM15, instead of paying the full 1700$ that it costs, welll...its a difference don´t you think?


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## derneustart (Nov 7, 2012)

derneustart said:


> Hey! quick response, thank you very much! I was thinking on spending on a Good receiver, though I don´t know much about them, I´m between this ones:
> 
> Kenwood RV-7000
> Onkyo nr414-75913
> ...


Any thoughts guys? been a bit lost in here... :huh::sad:


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

No matter what speakers you choose, I think that Pioneer HM50 receiver needs to be replaced. Specs show it to deliver 50W to each of the front 2 speakers. It probably delivers much less. Plus there is no Audyssey room correction.

If you are not happy with the Bose speakers you have now, I highly doubt that adding more would make it any better. Using a proper amp with Audyssey room correction may make a noticable improvement but I would still recommend different speakers if you want higher fidelity. 
Having fewer better speakers is always better than having more substandard speakers.


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## derneustart (Nov 7, 2012)

gdstupak said:


> No matter what speakers you choose, I think that Pioneer HM50 receiver needs to be replaced. Specs show it to deliver 50W to each of the front 2 speakers. It probably delivers much less. Plus there is no Audyssey room correction.
> 
> If you are not happy with the Bose speakers you have now, I highly doubt that adding more would make it any better. Using a proper amp with Audyssey room correction may make a noticable improvement but I would still recommend different speakers if you want higher fidelity.
> Having fewer better speakers is always better than having more substandard speakers.


I had two options, either buy more speakers and use the AM6 as rear/surround speakers, buying a new stereo pair and a new center, in this way maybe I can have better speakers upfront, and whenever I have more money, just replace the AM6 for another better ones, or convert my AM6 into an AM15, in any case I´m thinking on changing the amp, what do you think about these two?

DENON AVR-2113 Receiver
Pioneer VSX-922-K


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

There are many fine speakers built in your motherland that I'd be overjoyed to own. Check out your homegrown stuff from ADAM, German Maestro, Canton, Burmester, etc... There are more. ADAM probably has the most complete price range and they are widely used for mixing the music you'd be listening to. I'd bet they are at least on the top three brands for that purpose. A nice Marantz pre and five of those would blow you away. Details like most have never heard with a linear output. The smaller you go, the less bass output you'll get. Sell the Bose and buy a worthy system piece by piece if you have to. Even an inexpensive receiver and some Infinity Primus or (dare I say) Behringer B2031P. Not bad stuff by any measure. Do some web searches for these things and look at what they can do.

Dan

PS. My next speaker will be made in Germany. Likely the ADAM Column. check out their measurements on Stereophile


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## WooferHound (Dec 8, 2010)

I used to install sound systems for a local installer. Me and my coworkers never thought that Bose were quality sound at all. Some places would request that we install Bose systems. We had a saying among ourselfs...

No Highs, No Lows
It must be Bose


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## ssgp2 (Jul 11, 2012)

DanTheMan said:


> PS. My next speaker will be made in Germany. Likely the ADAM Column. check out their measurements on Stereophile


I choose the active Delta's and couldn't be happier!


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## SI.Theater (Feb 4, 2011)

derneustart said:


> I had two options, either buy more speakers and use the AM6 as rear/surround speakers, buying a new stereo pair and a new center, in this way maybe I can have better speakers upfront, and whenever I have more money, just replace the AM6 for another better ones, or convert my AM6 into an AM15, in any case I´m thinking on changing the amp, what do you think about these two?
> 
> DENON AVR-2113 Receiver
> Pioneer VSX-922-K


Between the two AVR units you listed, I personally prefer the Denon over the Pioneer. I think Audyssey does a better job than MCACC at calibrating speakers. Marantz also makes good receivers. You may want to look at something like the SR5006 or SR5007 as well.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

IMO the easiest and least expensive choice is to replace the front L and R and the Center channel....
Use the BOSE cubes as surround speakers ....A better quality amp could be added later when your ready to invest more....Something with Audessy or AMMCA room correction processor....Sounds like you need on walls instead of in walls...I would recommend In walls however if you can because the choices for On walls are pretty limited and more expensive..... 
However if your a Do It Yourself'er a very nice set of L R C speakers can be built quite easily and saving a significant amount of $$$


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

I echo the pretty-much universal advice to move away from Bose for front/center units. It is interesting how many innovations the company has come up with - like making a little box sound _big_ - but so much of what they make still manages to not sound that _good._ There are exceptions, no doubt.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Believe it or not, small speakers will sound bigger by default d/t the Haas Effect and source width broadening. Dorky fact of the day.

Anyway, I think these guys are right--get the three front speakers first and spend you money there. I'd get a receiver with the best version of Audyssey you can afford.

Dan


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

I agree with Jungle Jack - sell what you can as Bose has high resale value. There's truly a lot you can do with your budget and it starts with superior speakers.


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## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

WooferHound said:


> No Highs, No Lows
> It must be Bose


BOSE speakers take a lot of flak from home theater enthusiasts and sadly, it's deserved. It's not like their products aren't appreciated by most of the people who buy them. After all, even what BOSE is doing is superior to nearly all television speakers or some of the cheaper home theater in a box setups. The problem is a matter of physics. Sound reproduction is harder than it looks and doing it from a tiny cube is just impossible. You're just not going to be able to reproduce 80hz-20,000hz of sound bandwidth without sacrificing something...in this case, you'll be sacrificing a lot. One of the problems of the BOSE demonstration in their stores is that people mistake the fact that Acoustimass systems can generate a lot of volume in a reasonably sized room...but this is not the same as good sound, it's just loud sound. And base module isn't a true subwoofer so you're not going to get anything approaching good lows for action movies.

What burns most people in forums like this is the cost/benefit of buying a BOSE system. They are just way expensive for what you are getting. It's not that BOSE doesn't do some good things. Their noise canceling headphone (QC15) is very popular and even I've owned a pair. Their automotive OEM division revolutionized car audio manufacturer upgrades nearly 30 years ago. But that still doesn't excuse the price/performance of Acoustimass cubes.


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## derneustart (Nov 7, 2012)

RTS100x5 said:


> IMO the easiest and least expensive choice is to replace the front L and R and the Center channel....
> Use the BOSE cubes as surround speakers ....A better quality amp could be added later when your ready to invest more....Something with Audessy or AMMCA room correction processor....Sounds like you need on walls instead of in walls...I would recommend In walls however if you can because the choices for On walls are pretty limited and more expensive.....
> However if your a Do It Yourself'er a very nice set of L R C speakers can be built quite easily and saving a significant amount of $$$


Thank you all guys for all of your advices!! really appreciate them! so here´s what I´ve got so far:

Decided and bought a Denon 2113 as Receiver, think it can´t handle a couple of years of heavy duty before I step up to something better, I´m also keeping the BOSE as Rears/Surround since I don´t want to expend THAT much, and for the fornts I´m debating myself between the KEF Q300 and the Klipsch 61/81, any opinions-thoughts-suggestions? I´ve read awesome reviews from the KEfs, and even though I love how the Klipsch looks like, everyone says they´re too bright, and that the engineering on the KEFs is simply marvelous, still since I don´t have any retail shop where I can listed to them, have to make my desicion based on what the HiFi gurus around here may know! I accept also suggestions.

Oh! and I have no idea on which center/sub to buy, thanks again guys!


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

The KEFs are a good speaker, although they could be improved in a few ways using the exact same drivers.

I recommend considering a pair of these:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR2325P


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## derneustart (Nov 7, 2012)

GranteedEV said:


> The KEFs are a good speaker, although they could be improved in a few ways using the exact same drivers.
> 
> I recommend considering a pair of these:
> 
> http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LSR2325P


JBL Studio Monitors for the Home Theatre? first recommendation I get from these! I´ve got a pair of KRKs in my Home Studio that I´ve been using to listen to music since the sound of the BOSE its like listening to music through a 100€ microsystem, but I could consider them!.

Any thoughts on these models I´ve said? any other recommendations? also for centers/subs? thanks again!


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Try to use all the exact same speakers for the front 3. Avoid getting the horizontal 'center speaker' which usually does not sound the same as the left and right speakers.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Those JBL are no joke! 

Definitely beat out some of the similar priced KRK. If your receiver has pre-outs, they'd make for a nice option. Used to have mine as a center channel. It did have some grounding issues with the receiver that I never tried to track down.

I'd still sat ADAM if you have the money.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

derneustart said:


> JBL Studio Monitors for the Home Theatre? first recommendation I get from these! I´ve got a pair of KRKs in my Home Studio that I´ve been using to listen to music since the sound of the BOSE its like listening to music through a 100€ microsystem, but I could consider them!.


The only catch with the JBLs is that they are a powered speaker. Because of this, you need a source with an RCA output. Low end receivers generally don't have pre-amplifier outputs.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

derneustart said:


> Any thoughts on these models I´ve said? any other recommendations? also for centers/subs? thanks again!


The KEF Q300 would be a nice option - and go with KEF Q series for center channel.

Q300 has decent measurements
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/book...kef-q300-bookshelf-speakers-on-the-bench.html

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/book...elf-speakers/kef-q300-bookshelf-speakers.html


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

I wish they gave us more off axis stuff. The Reference series is awesome, but still starts compressing at a fairly low level for a speaker of their cost. The R reference doesn't do as well. That's why I'm not too enthusiastic about their lower end stuff. Still you can bet they sound good at normal listening levels. 

Dan


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## Harold Dale (Jun 26, 2006)

WooferHound said:


> I used to install sound systems for a local installer. Me and my coworkers never thought that Bose were quality sound at all. Some places would request that we install Bose systems. We had a saying among ourselfs...
> 
> No Highs, No Lows
> It must be Bose


Seems everyone that worked in a hifi shop had that saying my self included


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