# HT Room Colors



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Good Day everyone. I have a question if I may.
Prior to this new house, all of my home theater rooms have been part of the normal living spaces and as such needed to be painted accordingly. This new house allows me my own cave in that visitors will really never know its there unless I tell them. So I am allowed the more proper and darker colors than normal in there. 
I was wondering what is the proper color of dark gray that is meant to go on the ceiling ? I know it is something that does not reflect light and it has to be some proper neutral temperature gray I just do not know what to ask for at the paint store.
I will do the walls a dark red or a dark china blue, so that part is covered.

Thank You


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Personally, I think the ceiling should be as non-reflective as possible, but I would make the decision based on what your ambient light on your screen is after you decide the colors of the walls. I would go with something that moves that ambient color more to neutral.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Thank You for the advice, I am thinking of a deep color maybe even a rustic red on the walls and cyberspace on the ceiling, sherwin williams.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Depending on the ambient light in the room, the net effect on your screen is hard to predict. You want the resulting light on the screen to be neutral, if possible.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

By "neutral", do you mean the approximate color temperature of the light? I'm not asking to be nit-picky... This is a topic that can potentially introduce staggering complexity, so I'm curious to know how you're defining that term.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Correct. Ideally you would have a neutral color on all walls and have lighting at the color temperature you desire. The reality is that the spectrum of ambient light in most rooms is not nuetral. It can also be very hard to measure if it is very low, but the net effect, in a perfect world needs to be accounted for.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

I am sorry, I may have not been clear, I do not have a projection screen, I have plasma direct view. I am not sure if that matters in your kind suggestion.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

DqMcClain said:


> By "neutral", do you mean the approximate color temperature of the light? I'm not asking to be nit-picky... This is a topic that can potentially introduce staggering complexity, so I'm curious to know how you're defining that term.


Ultimately this could get complex in that I had no idea background light should be neutral. I was aware of no gloss paint and there is a need for ones eyes to be drawn into the light of the screen so to speak. I did not know that ambient light needed to be worked out based on the color of the room. Learn something new everyday.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

If you use flat paint and have very little ambient light it probably won't matter much.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> If you use flat paint and have very little ambient light it probably won't matter much.


Understood. I have not yet installed proper lighting, I just use a pole lamp and the lights in the overhead ceiling fan on dimmers. I think I need to paint first, then save up for some nice rope lighting and then maybe a projector and screen, that would be very nice. I spoke with some others that told me it is not all that expensive to get into the front projection system so, looking forward to that. 

Thanks


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Ok, we're on the same page then.

In terms of a "neutral" white, most people don't notice the differences between the color temperatures commonly available in incandescent bulbs, which are often between 2400K and 3200K, unless differing bulbs are placed such that one can experience both simultaneously or in rapid succession. 

The nice thing about having a dedicated room is that you're able to dictate the terms on which sunlight enters the room. This is where people tend to see differences in color temperatures ("vertical daylight" is 5600K-6000K, and "overcast daylight" is 6500K). Big differences in color temperature will have dramatic effects on color rendering. The other thing that can come into play aside from the temperature of your lighting is how the white is composed at a particular temperature. Incandescent lamps provide a continuous spectrum, with a wide dominant band at the apparent temperature. Fluorescent lights simulate an apparent temperature by having sharp spikes in their spectrum in various bands, and little content in between. LEDs can take a similar approach, depending on the quality of the diode. The effect of a non-continuous band light source is that while the white looks like you think it should, other colors can be rendered inaccurately depending on the real color content of the white. 

If you don't want incandescent lamps in the room and opt instead for LEDs, and you're worried about accurately rendering the color of your walls and ceiling (and not introducing any weirdness in your TV/Screen, since that's what this is all about), it's a good idea to avoid cheap off-brand LED bulbs. It might also be worth while to check the return policy of whatever store you purchase the bulbs... that way you can get an in-home trial even if the store doesn't know that's what you're up to.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Thank You Dq, now I am more afraid than I was when I started. :rofl:

You and lcaillo have told me a great deal so I better take this to heart. I understand color temperature, I do alot of photography, but I did not consider these issues for the HT room. I dont run movies with the room lights on at this time as they will reflect on the screen so I had hoped to be able to get some light behind the screen or low in the room so that I am not straining my eyes in a very dark situation. I have blocked the sunlight as this room has only one window and it is now covered by a television display and dark curtains. Maybe I need to rethink this situation a bit. Oh and my ceiling is flat on top with angled sides down to a 48" knee wall...what a pain but I will take what I can get. Here are two photos, one of the window end and one of the entry area. Its not too big 15.5" w x 21' L x 8' in the center of the room. Also a pic of it loaded with stuff


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## PTAaron (Feb 16, 2012)

I also do not have a projector in my room, and I found that when my room was still "light colored" having a bias light behind the TV made my eyes feel a lot better when watching movies in the darkened room. I went the cheap route and just used a small fluorescent fixture with a (i can't remember the color temp) bulb that was masked off to provide a faint pure white light. 

I ended up going with black ceiling and screen wall with a dark blue on the side walls. The bias light was no longer useful with the flat black front wall - so I got rid of it. I might consider going with more of a neural grey color in front if I were to do it again so I could keep the light, but I will be moving to a projector eventually anyway. I calibrated my TV in the room at my normal viewing light level and I can say with almost 100% certainty that my room colors have no effect on the image on the screen.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

_"The Importance Of Viewing Environment Conditions In A Reference Display System"_
http://cinemaquestinc.com/ive.htm

The human visual system is very adaptable, especially with color. Surrounding an image with a particular color will skew the viewer's perception of the image content. The color of ambient light also will affect this. In other words, a cinematographer will labor to control subtle color moods in a scene, only to have it altered by a viewer's poorly designed display environment. Due to human adaptaton, the viewer won't even be aware that the image is altered. However, the mood intended by the cinematographer could also be diminished, altered, or lost, depending on the severity of the deviation. This link offers a vivid demonstration of this phenomenon:
http://www.echalk.co.uk/amusements/OpticalIllusions/colourPerception/colourPerception.html

Use the sliders in the demos to vary the intensity of the surrounding color. Note that even slight coloration can change the observer's color perception.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Savjac said:


> Ultimately this could get complex in that I had no idea background light should be neutral. I was aware of no gloss paint and there is a need for ones eyes to be drawn into the light of the screen so to speak. I did not know that ambient light needed to be worked out based on the color of the room. Learn something new everyday.


Joe Kain used to suggest the wall behind the TV be 6500, and they would even put a light behind the TV to wash the wall with a 6500 light. I believe they suggested the walls be a grey..


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

ellisr63 said:


> Joe Kain used to suggest the wall behind the TV be 6500, and they would even put a light behind the TV to wash the wall with a 6500 light. I believe they suggested the walls be a grey..


He still does. It's been standard professional practice for critical viewing environments for over a half century.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

ellisr63 said:


> Joe Kain used to suggest the wall behind the TV be 6500, and they would even put a light behind the TV to wash the wall with a 6500 light. I believe they suggested the walls be a grey..


Washing the wall with a 6500K light, I understand. "...the wall behind the TV be 6500" I do not, at least from a syntactical view. I'm guessing that you mean the suggestion is to have ambient light at 6500K surrounding the screen, and that using 6500K fixtures to wash the surface in question is the method he recommended.

As for walls... any particular shade of grey? Or just something mixed with equal portions of pigment such that there is no shift in any one direction?

I'm rapidly approaching having to paint my front wall in my own living room, so this discussion is especially pertinent to my situation. Also, while I have a pretty good grasp (I think) on this topic, there are clearly people in this thread with vastly deeper knowledge than mine. Thanks for jumping in!


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

DqMcClain said:


> Washing the wall with a 6500K light, I understand. "...the wall behind the TV be 6500" I do not, at least from a syntactical view. I'm guessing that you mean the suggestion is to have ambient light at 6500K surrounding the screen, and that using 6500K fixtures to wash the surface in question is the method he recommended.
> 
> As for walls... any particular shade of grey? Or just something mixed with equal portions of pigment such that there is no shift in any one direction?
> 
> I'm rapidly approaching having to paint my front wall in my own living room, so this discussion is especially pertinent to my situation. Also, while I have a pretty good grasp (I think) on this topic, there are clearly people in this thread with vastly deeper knowledge than mine. Thanks for jumping in!


There is no 6500K color of pigment. A truly neutral gray will reflect all colors of light without adding color of its own. How dark or light the shade of gray is will simply vary the amount of illumination reflected by it. Here is a link that explains many of these elements and effects:

http://cinemaquestinc.com/blb.htm 

The previous links I provided will augment an understanding of human perceptual factors and other room design issues. Before any of the home theater discussion boards existed, Joe Kane was the man most responsible for introducing the consumer video market to the principles of imaging science, reference image quality, video standards and best practices, plus what professionals do on the program production side of the industry to create, duplicate, and preserve picture quality. Unfortunately, in the intervening years a lot of what he introduced regarding viewing environment principles has diminished in the video consumer media. No serious home theater system designer worth his salt discounts these principles. Viewer perception is no less a vital component in a system design than any piece of gear.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Alan Brown said:


> There is no 6500K color of pigment. A truly neutral gray will reflect all colors of light without adding color of its own. How dark or light the shade of gray is will simply vary the amount of illumination reflected by it. Here is a link that explains many of these elements and effects:
> 
> http://cinemaquestinc.com/blb.htm
> 
> The previous links I provided will augment an understanding of human perceptual factors and other room design issues. Before any of the home theater discussion boards existed, Joe Kane was the man most responsible for introducing the consumer video market to the principles of imaging science, reference image quality, video standards and best practices, plus what professionals do on the program production side of the industry to create, duplicate, and preserve picture quality. Unfortunately, in the intervening years a lot of what he introduced regarding viewing environment principles has diminished in the video consumer media. No serious home theater system designer worth his salt discounts these principles. Viewer perception is no less a vital component in a system design than any piece of gear.


This is great info. It's clear that the people behind this are basing their writing and recommendations on well-established science. What I like about this particular topic and the way it is addressed here is that there it is based on the acknowledgement that there are subtleties of human perception that "color" the experience, and that those subtleties can be understood, controlled, and manipulated to maximize the viewer's experience.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

DqMcClain said:


> ....I'm rapidly approaching having to paint my front wall in my own living room....


Patterns can add interest, as can textures. Gray acoustic panels are also an additional option that can benefit the audio reproduction in the room. Drapes are an excellent solution as well. The wall behind the TV doesn't have to be just a flat gray expanse.


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

Alan Brown said:


> Patterns can add interest, as can textures. Gray acoustic panels are also an additional option that can benefit the audio reproduction in the room. Drapes are an excellent solution as well. The wall behind the TV doesn't have to be just a flat gray expanse.


Well, after all that reading... my setup is a 100" projector screen. That means I don't have to worry about the neutral grey and 6500K wash behind my screen as your references state that it is unnecessary. That doesn't mean I can ignore the colors and lighting conditions, but I have a bit more leeway. 

I had already planned for a certain amount of acoustic foam on the walls and ceiling, and eventually I'll put sconces up for better distribution of dimmer ambient light. Right now I have two sconces up-lighting the top of the wall opposite the screen (18 feet away). It makes for a comfortably lit room without washing the picture out more than is acceptable at the moment, though the temperature is considerably lower than 6500K (2800K-ish). 

For the OP:
If you paint the wall behind your screen a neutral grey and light it at 6500K, you'll preserve the color balance designed into the original content, assuming your screen is calibrated accordingly. 

As for ceiling and walls, dark and non-reflective is the way to go and you can probably get away with any of your previous ideas.


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