# First ever theater build! Feedback needed!



## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

Hey all, i am in the process of remodeling/updating a home that currently has a decent entertainment system but they asked me to upgrade/update everything for a big theater in their home.

This is a rough draft of the layout that i would like to do:
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/newDrawing1.jpg

Money isn't really an problem (within reason of course). This is a run down as to what they are looking to get:

1) A projector with RS232 port thats less than $5K
2) A LED LCD 55-60" with RS232 port around $3-4k
3) 4 in-ceiling speakers ~$1-2K 
4) 3 in-wall front (left, right center) speakers ~2k
5) Motorized 120" in-ceiling drop down acoustically transparent screen ~$4k?
6) Large (12"-15") sub-woofer $2k
7) A/V receiver with lots of HDMI 1.4/RS232 port ~4k
8) Windows 7 Media Center with Ceton InfiniTV 4 quad-tuner card

It's important that i have the RS232 port so i can program it to all be controlled by a custom program i will be making for the Media Center.

So i am pretty much posting this here so i can get some feedback/advice as to what would work the best for my setup. I hope to get everything needed at Crutchfield (minus the computer and probably screen) so keep that in mind if you like sending links. Although i am open to anything 

This is my list so far (Please comment on the parts if you have used them!)
LED LCD:
LG 55LX9500

Receiver:
Marantz SR7005

Speakers:
Triad Bronze/8 LCR X 4
Axiom VP150 v3 X 1
Axiom M22 V3 X 2
Axiom M3 v3 X 2

Projector:
JVC DLA-RS35
PowerLite Home Cinema 8700 UB

Subwoofer:
Rythmik audio F12SE X 2

Projector Screen:
Seymour AV screen

Thank for taking the time to read this and helping out a noob! 

David

Here are just a few images of the actual room (sorry too them with my cell phone..):
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic1.jpg
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic2.jpg
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic3.jpg
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic4.jpg
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic5.jpg
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic6.jpg
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic7.jpg
http://www.june3rdsoftware.com/theater/pic8.jpg


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Truly looks like an excellent plan of action and list of Components. Really do not see any aspect to critique. 
JJ


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

If your budget is $5k I think you can do much better than the PowerLite Home Cinema 8700 UB, either a JVC D-ILA or a Sony SXRD will destroy any LCD based projector.


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

A good 120" motorized A/T screen wont be cheap and might be a budget killer. 

Whats the goal of doing this work? Are you doing it for a friend or to make money? If to make money you would be better off working with a custom dealer and letting them sell the package to you and marking it up a small percentage as Crutchfield is full MSRP on almost everything. Also remember you will end up being responsible for support and maintenance and time isn't free.

I love MCE but am very hesitant to put it in a customers house due to its delicate nature (updates, virus, hardware). Tho I cant wait to get my hands on the Ceton card.

Finally you could use IP instead of 232 for the Marantz and possibly the projector as well.

Are you planning to do something really different with the programming? Otherwise the control could easily be accomplished with existing control options.

Just trying to give you honest answers.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Sounds to me like you have a very nice list of components, a few i would change only because i am partial to some brands but you have an awesome list so i see no need for change.:T


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

TypeA said:


> If your budget is $5k I think you can do much better than the PowerLite Home Cinema 8700 UB, either a JVC D-ILA or a Sony SXRD will destroy any LCD based projector.


Would you mind giving me the model numbers with the JVC and Sony? I cant pull anything up for the Sony by that and there are a few models for the JVC.

David


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

nholmes1 said:


> A good 120" motorized A/T screen wont be cheap and might be a budget killer.
> 
> Whats the goal of doing this work? Are you doing it for a friend or to make money? If to make money you would be better off working with a custom dealer and letting them sell the package to you and marking it up a small percentage as Crutchfield is full MSRP on almost everything. Also remember you will end up being responsible for support and maintenance and time isn't free.
> 
> ...


Hey thanks for the reply!

I understand that a A/T screen is not cheap but it will be needed for the type of setup they have since they dont have much front wall space needed to space out the speakers outside the screens area. Especially the center speaker.

I am doing this for a client. He is getting a contractor to do the work of fixing the walls, stadium seating, etc. I would only be responsible for letting the contractor know what holes i would need for the speakers, projector, etc and installing them.

I think they would benefit from having the windows media center since they are only using the room for movies and problem causal tv shows on the LG. Other than that, the computer will not be used for anything but that so i do not see any virus problems. Although i will install a anti-virus program just in case.

I find using RS232 would be easier as to what i plan on doing. I will be getting one of those Android tablets ($140) and running a VNC off of that to the media center. The media center will have a virtual machine running XP with my custom program on that and it will send out the RS232 from there. And since the media center will be running outside of the VM, i will have another tiny program running on the media center part that listens via LAN commands so that they can change channels, etc inside the media center. But saying all that, I've never really done anything besides RS232 commands. Its a first for me to do the LAN commutations for the media center from the VM-which isn't all that hard. Pretty much like an IM program.

David


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Do your research on the prices, while this JVC is a little beyond your budget a brand new _previous_ model should be within your price range. I wouldnt blame you at all if you went beyond your $5k budget on the projo, if you can.....its well worth it. But $5k will still get you a much better projo then a $2k LCD 

These links are just to get you started:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/jvc_rs25_projector_review.htm
http://www.projectorcentral.com/Sony-BRAVIA_VPL-VW85.htm


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Sounds like re-inventing the wheel as far as control goes, there are a few options out there for controlling MCE such as Autonomic Home Controls, MCE Controller, Crestron SMW, and I believe control4 also has an option

Or why not just enable concurrent session on Windows 7 as its the best permeation of Windows Media Center yet and that would give you full acceleration of GUI which MCE needs to look right, even on a LAN VNC isnt the snappiest interface.

Let me take a stab and say you were the IT guy for this client and he asked? Nothing wrong with it as thats kind of how I got my start in the CE industry but there are alot of things that are different with CE versus IT. People expect problems with computers, but they also expect the TV to just work. Expectation level is the hardest thing to manage.


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Do your research on the prices, while this JVC is a little beyond your budget a brand new _previous_ model should be within your price range. I wouldnt blame you at all if you went beyond your $5k budget on the projo, if you can.....its well worth it. But $5k will still get you a much better projo then a $2k LCD


I'm mainly look at the Lumens output of the projectors as i am told that its the most important part of finding a projector to meet your rooms needs. The higher the Lumens, the better the chances are that, even with a some-what dark room, you will still get a great picture.

Having said that, the JVC is only 900 and the 800? And also the contrast is 50000:1/120000:1 respectively compared to the 1600/200000:1 of the PowerLite Home Cinema 8700 UB?

David


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

nholmes1 said:


> Sounds like re-inventing the wheel as far as control goes, there are a few options out there for controlling MCE such as Autonomic Home Controls, MCE Controller, Crestron SMW, and I believe control4 also has an option
> 
> Or why not just enable concurrent session on Windows 7 as its the best permeation of Windows Media Center yet and that would give you full acceleration of GUI which MCE needs to look right, even on a LAN VNC isnt the snappiest interface.
> 
> Let me take a stab and say you were the IT guy for this client and he asked? Nothing wrong with it as thats kind of how I got my start in the CE industry but there are alot of things that are different with CE versus IT. People expect problems with computers, but they also expect the TV to just work. Expectation level is the hardest thing to manage.


I'm opened to talking to you more about what you suggested above. Feel free to PM me your ideas on how to control the projector, A/V receiver and Media center from the computer  i'd love to hear you're ideas on that matter if you are willing to share.

David


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Here is a good screen option from a forum advertiser/sponsor

http://www.elitescreens.com/index.p...&view=article&id=20&catid=1&Itemid=19&lang=en


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

A few things

-I'd spring for the M22s over the M3s. For a dedicated theater I'd personally go Seaton, RBH, or JTR though 
-I'd consider two subs, the rythmik is an excellent choice though!
-Seymour AV makes some of the best A/T projection screens
-any reason for an LED over a plasma? It sounds like a dedicated, dim room!
-budget in tons of sound treatment - at reflection points and corners especially! Underneath raised seating is always a nice spot as well.
-SR7005 is nice, but how about an AV7005 paired with an EMotiva UPA-7!


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

StealthRT said:


> I'm mainly look at the Lumens output of the projectors as i am told that its the most important part of finding a projector to meet your rooms needs. The higher the Lumens, the better the chances are that, even with a some-what dark room, you will still get a great picture.
> 
> Having said that, the JVC is only 900 and the 800? And also the contrast is 50000:1/120000:1 respectively compared to the 1600/200000:1 of the PowerLite Home Cinema 8700 UB?
> 
> David


Have you asked the client if they understand the principles behind a front projection system? Unless you spend big money on a screen that rejects ambient light in the room the lack of image brightness will be an issue in any room thats illuminated, regardless of the listed brightness of your projector of choice. While its true that your LCD choice will be brighter, its also true that it will pale in contrast and black level performance in comparison to a D-ILA or LCOS based tech. Also, assuming they close doors, the room you show in the pictures will be easy to control light in, from what I see theres only one window. BTW, take manufactures published performance numbers with a grain of salt, read REVIEWS instead.


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

nholmes1 said:


> Here is a good screen option from a forum advertiser/sponsor
> 
> http://www.elitescreens.com/index.p...&view=article&id=20&catid=1&Itemid=19&lang=en


That is a pretty good looking screen. However, i am confused as to which i should get:
CineWhite
CineGray
PowerGain

And does it fix the "known problem" with the blacks being AT (or whatever the problem is with first gen AT screens bleeding through too much or whatnot)?

David


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Why not do a separate box that is entirely for control? I'm not a big fan of trying to do everything with the PC as it never seems to work out perfectly, not that it can't just past experiences with homebrew thru 10K+ Media servers from Inteset and others have proven its not reliable enough for me to put it in a customers house. Then again thats why they pay me so well because my systems do work...

There are ways like Charmed Quark that turn the PC into full fledged automation platform or LifeWare as well.

Send me a PM with any questions you have but keeping it out in the open forum may help others later


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

"Sound transparent models with AcousticPro1080 also available" thats from the page I posted, and you are talking about Moire problems which with most recent screens shouldn't be a problem but I haven't seen it in person so I can't confirm.


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> A few things
> 
> -I'd spring for the M22s over the M3s. For a dedicated theater I'd personally go Seaton, RBH, or JTR though
> -I'd consider two subs, the rythmik is an excellent choice though!
> ...


The AV7005 does look nice... but those speaker connections on it scare me  I dont know how those 3-prong connectors hook up as i never used anything like that before (although they do look like the type a guitar amp would have, etc). The speakers i have listed do not have any type of connection like that so how would those connect up? Or does the EMotiva UPA-7 convert those into standard +/- connections? *I'm new to this type of connection*

Yes, i thing going with 2 rythmik subs would be a way to even up the whole field . One in the corner and the other to the right of the TV.

The reason why i choose the M3's over the M22s is, one they are newer and two they are on-wall. Sorry, i think i need to correct my OP to say on-wall.

Wow! those Seymour AV screen do look nice. But what are the prices on the 120???

The LED will last a million times longer than a plasma. It also has a better picture (color and contrasts (in my opionion)) than a plasma has. Oh, most importantly, its skinny as ! :T Only problem with that LG screen is that i am hearing mixed reviews on the RS232 port being a "service only" and not "communcations" port :foottap:

David


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Yes, thats definitely your opinion. However most everyone _else_ considers plasma superior to LCD in picture quality, and in _every_ way except maybe brightness. Life span will be fine for most, except those that keep their tv for 20 years. Much more skinny, yeah, got me there, LCD wins


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Have you asked the client if they understand the principles behind a front projection system? Unless you spend big money on a screen that rejects ambient light in the room the lack of image brightness will be an issue in any room thats illuminated, regardless of the listed brightness of your projector of choice. While its true that your LCD choice will be brighter, its also true that it will pale in contrast and black level performance in comparison to a D-ILA or LCOS based tech. Also, assuming they close doors, the room you show in the pictures will be easy to control light in, from what I see theres only one window. BTW, take manufactures published performance numbers with a grain of salt, read REVIEWS instead.


Alright. I think i will change to the JVC DLA-RS25U as it seems to be THX certified so i know it HAS to look great in picture quality to have a stamp like that.

David


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

StealthRT said:


> The AV7005 does look nice... but those speaker connections on it scare me  I dont know how those 3-prong connectors hook up as i never used anything like that before (although they do look like the type a guitar amp would have, etc). The speakers i have listed do not have any type of connection like that so how would those connect up? Or does the EMotiva UPA-7 convert those into standard +/- connections? *I'm new to this type of connection*
> 
> Yes, i thing going with 2 rythmik subs would be a way to even up the whole field . One in the corner and the other to the right of the TV.
> 
> ...


No offense but this is why you need to partner with a local ESC, you are talking some decent money and equipment and you are not aware of some of the basic connections or principals of the equipment you plan on using or researching. Not saying you can't do it but again someone is paying for you to be their expert and no offense but you aren't. Work with your customer and the ESC and be the go between or ask the ESC to let you work with them on the install to learn and you should still get some type of fee from the ESC.

Plasmas and LCD's will last much longer than when they are relevant as a display device.


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Yes, thats definitely your opinion. However most everyone _else_ considers plasma superior to LCD in picture quality, and in _every_ way except maybe brightness. Life span will be fine for most, except those that keep their tv for 20 years. Much more skinny, yeah, got me there, LCD wins


Oh and i left out another very important cosmetic of the LED.... the screen's trim! The super thin one. Thats just awesome watching a TV that doesn't have thick trim all around it! Oh, and the heat produced by a plasma could cook an egg... LED's are cool to the touch 

David


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Also keep in mind, the internet is your friend! Yes, its good to get 'user' opinions here and elsewhere, but read pro reviews by people that review things for a living! Stereophile, audioholics, sound and vision, projector central, remote central, just to name a few.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

StealthRT said:


> plasma could cook an egg... LED's are cool to the touch
> 
> David


Lol, you wait till they fire up that projector, a good projector can pull double-duty as a high-powered hair dryer


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Also keep in mind, the internet is your friend! Yes, its good to get 'user' opinions here and elsewhere, but read pro reviews by people that review things for a living! Stereophile, audioholics, sound and vision, projector central, remote central, just to name a few.


True. I think I've read so many reviews that i get all the details mixed up with each other.. There is a lot of stuff one has to consider in order to build a decent theater system. Though it is fun. 

And i would hope the people who are replying to my post have at least had the equipment they are suggesting or seen a demo of it.

David


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

TypeA said:


> Lol, you wait till they fire up that projector, they can pull double-duty as a high-powered hair dryer


Ha, thats very true.. but then again, we were talking about TV monitors and not projectors, right? :neener:

David


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

nholmes1 said:


> No offense but this is why you need to partner with a local ESC, you are talking some decent money and equipment and you are not aware of some of the basic connections or principals of the equipment you plan on using or researching. Not saying you can't do it but again someone is paying for you to be their expert and no offense but you aren't. Work with your customer and the ESC and be the go between or ask the ESC to let you work with them on the install to learn and you should still get some type of fee from the ESC.
> 
> Plasmas and LCD's will last much longer than when they are relevant as a display device.


No offense taken. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I know more than a basic user would know at this stage but as far as the "high-end" components go-Ive never had the money to tinker with them. This is the first client of mine who has had the $$ to back up what he's looking for. I'm sure i can contact Crutchfield and ask them about that receiver and they would be able to tell me how it hooks up and all with no problem.

I am meeting with his contractor (who has an ESC who already has plans laid out for him). But the owner wants me to see if its what i want to do (or that they equipment they suggested are, in fact, good quality and not trying to up a price on generic-off brand stuff).

David


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

> The AV7005 does look nice... but those speaker connections on it scare me  I dont know how those 3-prong connectors hook up as i never used anything like that before (although they do look like the type a guitar amp would have, etc). The speakers i have listed do not have any type of connection like that so how would those connect up? Or does the EMotiva UPA-7 convert those into standard +/- connections? *I'm new to this type of connection*


XLR? It's just a balanced connection from pre-pro to amp. It can help with grounding issues but it's really nt a big deal, both the UPA-7 and AV7005 will have RCA connections as well but it's really irrelevant as the final signal will still be a basic binding post to binding post speaker wire connection.



> The reason why i choose the M3's over the M22s is, one they are newer and two they are on-wall


Huh? M22s are better than M3s. They also come in on-wall flavour. 



> The LED will last a million times longer than a plasma. It also has a better picture (color and contrasts (in my opionion)) than a plasma has.


Lasting long is inconsequential - do you really care if something lasts you 25 years or 100? Either way you WILL end up replacing it in 10-15 - that's just human and consumerist nature.

And your opinion, i hate to inform you, is misguided and pretty much wrong scientifically speaking.. Yes an LED is thinner but a plasma has a more natural picture especially in a good viewing room like a dedicated home theater. That pertains to color and contrast - don't be fooled by how much something pops out at you in a store, your goal should be an accurate reproduction, and plasmas have an innate advantage with their superior ability to reproduce black. The only superior technology is probably OLED - not LED LCD mind you - and OLED is far away from commonplace use in televisions. 

There's a reason why to many people, 3-4 year old Pioneer Kuro Elites are still considered the best TVs ever made.



> Thats just awesome watching a TV that doesn't have thick trim all around it! Oh, and the heat produced by a plasma could cook an egg... LED's are cool to the touch


Cook an egg? My laptop, PS3, xbox, light-bulbs, furnace vents, receiver, and sub pro-amp all run hotter than my panasonic plasma does. Do you watch TV with your hand on your TV's fan vent or something? Sorry if your opinion of LEDs is higher than your opinion of plasmas, but there isn't really much to be argued - it's pretty cut-and-dry that unless you're in a very bright room with windows all over the place, a good plasma will reproduce an image better than a great LCD.


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> XLR? It's just a balanced connection from pre-pro to amp. It can help with grounding issues but it's really nt a big deal, both the UPA-7 and AV7005 will have RCA connections as well but it's really irrelevant as the final signal will still be a basic binding post to binding post speaker wire connection.
> 
> Huh? M22s are better than M3s. They also come in on-wall flavour.
> 
> ...


You do bring up some good points there, GranteedEV. But, like i stated, those are just my thoughts on it. I've never purchased or used any item listed in my OP so any feedback is really, good feedback 

I have changed the M3's to M22's 

About the heat issue with Plasma vs. LCD. Naturally LCD alone will be cooler than plasma. Add LED to an LCD without the tube then its even more so. I was just stating a fact-not opinion. But in any case, it's nice to have you're feedback on it as i do not own an LED LCD or plasma. 

David


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Also, is there any reason you went with those particular surrounds / in-ceilings?

IMO you might want to find your local destination audio dealer and ask if you can listen to some of their offerings.


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> Also, is there any reason you went with those particular surrounds / in-ceilings?
> 
> IMO you might want to find your local destination audio dealer and ask if you can listen to some of their offerings.


There is no room on the left/right walls in those areas. If you look at the layout there are windows taking up the whole right side and only a very skinny wall on the left between the stairs and garage door. So no room at all to place a speaker in or on for that matter.

David


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Or why not just go with a full triad system? They are good and can custom make an enclosure to match your exact needs?


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## StealthRT (Oct 30, 2010)

nholmes1 said:


> Or why not just go with a full triad system? They are good and can custom make an enclosure to match your exact needs?


There's not enough room in order to put speakers on the side in the back. Not even with a customized plan. But thanks for the suggestion 

David


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Triad does have in-wall and in-ceiling options and in a dedicated theater the speakers should be as close to possible as matching, at the minimum timbre matched.


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