# I need help :/



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Seriously, i cant stop buying used speakers and electronics. I think i'm getting a good deal, when in fact at the best i'm getting a decent deal on junk or half way decent stuff.

Just bought a Yamaha YST-SW 216 sub thinking i was upgrading, maybe i did a little idk? ANd a Sony STR-K850p receiver For $50 Plus the kid threw in like 10 Pretty good Dvds.

So i Replaced the Onkyo sub with the Yamaha and was suprised and impressed how much deeper the yamaha dug. So i guess for $50 i'm happy, but i feel like i'm still wasting my money on bottom of the barrel stuff. Just the other day i bought a Kenwood all in one system for $25.. i don't even have room for it.. so i hooked it up in my moms room and she loves it.. to me it sounds like because i'm getting a taste of half way decent stuff.

I would like to make a real upgrade or start a real system we can say.. Where should i start? A new receiver first?


----------



## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

Speakers, including subs make the most impact - assuming your receiver has enough watts to power the speakers. You are hearing a lot of boomy distortion with that subwoofer. If you are happy with the sound of your main speakers, I would upgrade your sub and then the speakers as you get more discerning in your listening.

Just stay away from Bose. It is over priced and sound quality is not the first goal.

It all comes down to budget - do you have one?


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

No budget, i'm dead broke lol. I'm laid off right now, I do Masonry work so i should be making some decent money this summer. What you said makes sense..i'm happy for the most part with my Polk Series 2 monitors and i like my Receiver, only problem no HDMI.. i do have the Multi channel input.. i read somewhere it was a useful feature if your receiver didn't have a HDMI connection.

So i think your right about my subs.. i have 3 subs all pretty much the same quality.. low end correct? I'm willing to spend the least i would have to, to get a Sub that will be well respected, in other words, I'll get what i need to get a something serious, i want the real deal, a sub that anyone on this forum would say yes that is a good sub, i'm guessing maybe a low Hi end sub? if that makes any sense. How much do i need to get that Low frequency flowing through me hitting all my Chakras head to toe.


----------



## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

jason1234567 said:


> So i think your right about my subs.. i have 3 subs all pretty much the same quality.. low end correct? I'm willing to spend the least i would have to, to get a Sub that will be well respected, in other words, I'll get what i need to get a something serious, i want the real deal, a sub that anyone on this forum would say yes that is a good sub, i'm guessing maybe a low Hi end sub? if that makes any sense. How much do i need to get that Low frequency flowing through me hitting all my Chakras head to toe.


People in this forum have a lot of respect for SVS and Rythmik audio subs as delivering huge quality and bang for the buck. Look for a used one at least mid way up their product lines. You will not believe how much better subs can be compared to the ones you have now.


----------



## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Probably somewhere between the 500-600 mark if you actually want some respectable low end..


----------



## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

The SVS pb-1000 is a very good sub for 499, free shipping and a in home trial.


----------



## Aundudel25 (Dec 13, 2013)

If you are comfortable building i would start looking at the DIY threads for subs. Probably the biggest bang for the buck there. But if you are looking for a built one then another vote for SVS and Rythmik. Or look at Outlaw, HSU, and PSA.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

jason1234567 said:


> I'm willing to spend the least i would have to, to get a Sub that will be well respected,...


Have you downloaded and installed a freeware copy of REW?

Properly EQ'g your subwoofer system, is the cheapest upgrade one can include in their system.

Trying to build a subwoofer system without room measuring software, is like trying to install brick without a string line, a level and a mallet.

(after thirty years, in 2011, I burned my general contractors license)


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks guys for all the options.. i'd have no clue how to build a sub, i can barely hook up my receiver as it is. But i'd have no problem spending $500 and a sub that will give me what i desire and that is repectable.

Now with that said.. after i save up the money and i have $500.. is there a sub say for $700 or so that would make the $500 sub look bad? if i'm gonna spend $500.. and there's a sub that will blow it away for $700.. i'd be better off paying the extra $200 no?


----------



## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

As said earlier take a few moments and look through internet direct companies. PSA, SVS, HSU, Rythmik, Outlaw, all have great subs in the 500-700 dollar range. With a budget around 700 you can easily get 20 ( or below with a small sealed acoustically sound room) hz output. If I wasn't on my phone I would give you examples on models and pricing. You can't go wrong with any of the companies stated above.


----------



## Aundudel25 (Dec 13, 2013)

jason1234567 said:


> Thanks guys for all the options.. i'd have no clue how to build a sub, i can barely hook up my receiver as it is. But i'd have no problem spending $500 and a sub that will give me what i desire and that is repectable.
> 
> Now with that said.. after i save up the money and i have $500.. is there a sub say for $700 or so that would make the $500 sub look bad? if i'm gonna spend $500.. and there's a sub that will blow it away for $700.. i'd be better off paying the extra $200 no?


I don't think any sub for a few hundred more from any of the internet direct companies previously stated is going to "blow the other away". But i would stick to a FIRM budget from experience  I started with a budget similar to yours and got an outlaw ex. But when i was researching i got to thinking "for a few hundred more i could get....." pretty soon i was looking at the JTR OS


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Ok so $500 is what i need for a respectable sub.. when i get the doe i'll ask for advice again to see what's available at the time. Aww man i can't wait for some real bass.. Should i keep one of the 3 i have now and have 2 running? or maybe even hook up all 4? lol Or is that a dumb idea?


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

In the $500 - $700 USD range, look to the Rythmik LV12R. My understanding, it's the Top Dog of this price point.

Agreeing with others, ID companies to look at that have excellent reviews, Hsu Research, SVS, Power Sound Audio and Rythmik Audio.

Disclosure: We have a pair of Rythmik subwoofers.


----------



## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

jason1234567 said:


> Should i keep one of the 3 i have now and have 2 running? or maybe even hook up all 4? lol Or is that a dumb idea?


I would buy used and you can go up the product line to a 15" driver in one of those product lines. For this price point.....In general: If you are into shear volume, go for a ported design. If you want the tightest bass, go for a sealed design.

Also - toss your other 3 subs the instant you get the new one. You will see why when you get the newer sub. The other 3 will just add distortion and boominess. You learn what boominess truly is when you get a nice sub. The new one will be way more than enough for you.


----------



## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

The outlaw LFM plus is currently on sale for $499. It is likely the best sub you can get for $500. It is on par with the Rythmik LV12R, and is the same sub as the Hsu VTF2.4. Those are the three I would look at if keeping your price below the $800 range.


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

thanks alot guys for the advice, i can already tell, hear or feel the boomyness and distortion your talking about with my subs. I just got a side gig repairing chimneys making $200-300 a day ..its part time 2-4 days a week but i should be able to drop $500 for a sub soon. Hopefully i'll catch that sale


----------



## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

Just an FYI, the Outlaw sale is scheduled to end on April 30.


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

I doubt i can make that sale.. what's the regular price? Will they give me a rain check maybe?


----------



## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

No rain checks, I don't think. If I remember correctly, regular price is $549, but that does not include shipping. Shipping is free for the 48 contiguous States during the sale.

As mentioned above, the SVS PB-1000 is $499 w/ free shipping. 24/7


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Is that SVS PB-1000 a respectable sub? Do you think it will keep me happy or will it just make me want more?? If it's a decent sub but will probably make me want more i'd rather save a little longer and get the real deal. I just got some masonry side work so i'll be able to get $500 in about a week.


----------



## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

jason1234567 said:


> Is that SVS PB-1000 a respectable sub? Do you think it will keep me happy or will it just make me want more?? If it's a decent sub but will probably make me want more i'd rather save a little longer and get the real deal. I just got some masonry side work so i'll be able to get $500 in about a week.


That sub is probably the most impressive 10 inch sub around. If you've never heard a quality sub you will be satisfied. It will blow the water out of all three of your lower quality subs with ease.


----------



## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

jamesfrazier said:


> That sub is probably the most impressive 10 inch sub around. If you've never heard a quality sub you will be satisfied. It will blow the water out of all three of your lower quality subs with ease.


+1 on that!
+1 on saving for the real deal. If you can, that is. It is hard to save, especially when when your used to compulsively buying A/V gear. (Why can't I find these deals?lol) But I guarantee!!!! ...you'll have far less regrets, if any. Nothing is worse than buyers remorse. Take the time while your saving to really soak in all the stuff about your current subs you dislike. Shen your new one is in place, it will be that much sweeter!


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

jason1234567 said:


> Is that SVS PB-1000 a respectable sub? Do you think it will keep me happy or will it just make me want more?? If it's a decent sub but will probably make me want more i'd rather save a little longer and get the real deal. I just got some masonry side work so i'll be able to get $500 in about a week.


Congratulations of the side work. You have no idea how happy I am for you. I'm recently retired from construction and pest control. I took anything I could get my hands on from carpet, roofing and tile to concrete......:clap:.....:T And with a good woman on your side, I hope you many more side-jobs and regular jobs into the future.

Here's the real deal.

Subwoofers are one of the few items in life where money "WILL" buy happiness. The more one spends, the happier they become. When listening to a movie and the room starts to rumble and roll, one is guaranteed of a hidden smile breaking out from the inside of their soul.

Having a reference level capable system, with an in room response, down to ten or twelve hertz, "IS" worth it.

"Flight of the Phoenix": starting with "The Two Bills" to when the plane comes to a rest, the bass wave that runs around the room during the barrel roll in the crash scene, makes you glad you went the Full Monte. The grenade scene in "World War Z" tells you that everything is alright in the Universe. "Pacific Rim" was a child's movie, until the bass kicked in. The depth charge scenes in "U-571" sucks the viewer right into the submarine. And the list of examples, continues. Those who love their bass and have systems setup to reproduce bass at reference level playback in the <12.5Hz octave, know of what I post.


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Thanks everyone for your input. Geez i can only dream i had a good woman by my side, i can't find a good girl to save my life, and i'm not even bad looking lol, i guess the good guy finishes last :/

I might not know much about home theater equipment or quality speakers, but one thing i do know that i have a feeling a lot of people don't know is about the effects of certain frequencies can have on our human bodies, When you get into the deep low end, the vibrations hit your chackra points through out your body, that's what's giving you that feelong of pleasure, that feeling of peace and it's responsible for putting that smile on your face. Certain music is made with these low end frequncies that can produce pure euphoria throuh your whole body, most of this type of music is only heard in the underground rave dance scene , but i'm sure there is other people making other types of music of sounds with these frequencies.

There was a machine some guy made a long time ago, it was a frequency generator of some sort that he invented and treated people that were ill.. there was evidence that certain frequency wavelengths can cure people with "uncureable" diseases. Unfortunetly i believe the inventer ended up disapearing and the technology is probably in the hands of some military unit. 

So i need something that will throw down to 12 hrtz ? Any suggestions please?


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

jason1234567 said:


> So i need something that will throw down to 12 hrtz ? Any suggestions please?


We're running a pair of Rythmik FV15HPs. From there, the price of admission goes through the roof.

("chackra points." Sounds complex)


----------



## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

jason1234567 said:


> Is that SVS PB-1000 a respectable sub? Do you think it will keep me happy or will it just make me want more?? If it's a decent sub but will probably make me want more i'd rather save a little longer and get the real deal. I just got some masonry side work so i'll be able to get $500 in about a week.





jason1234567 said:


> So i need something that will throw down to 12 hrtz ? Any suggestions please?


As the others mentioned the SVS PB-1000 is most definitely a respectable sub.

As far as 12Hz, I'm pretty sure that's going to cost many times more. You OK with that?


----------



## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

jason1234567 said:


> So i need something that will throw down to 12 hrtz ? Any suggestions please?


I would not worry too much about under 16 Hz at this point. Even with a lot of money (thousands) thrown at some subs, the feeling you get from 12 Hz frequencies is negligible compared to the tactile effect of 16Hz +. I've seen several forum member with very high end theaters(i.e. 8 18" sealed $1k drivers) switching from sealed to ported to get more 20 Hz output and give up output below 15.

As far as the sale, pull a little out of saving to catch the sale on the Outlaw(from $600 shipped to $499 shipped)then put it back when the work is finished? I know this can be risky though as you are not guaranteed the work.

If you cannot catch the sale then I would say the PB1000 is next best option. Good luck!


----------



## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

Reaction audio is a new internet direct company making new dual driver sealed subs. Won't have the best low end extension but have great mid bass(30-80) hz. A lot of people over at avs have had great results with them.. They're getting great reviews and the customer service is apparently excellent. Look them up. When I save for my sub I think I'm going to go with there dual 12 inch.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Bear123 said:


> I would not worry too much about under 16 Hz at this point. Even with a lot of money (thousands) thrown at some subs, the feeling you get from 12 Hz frequencies is negligible compared to the tactile effect of 16Hz +.


Just saying, with few exceptions, the better a sub performs at 12Hz, the better the same sub's output is going be at 16Hz. But if a sub's lowest output is 16Hz, then it's going perform poorly or less than desirable at 16Hz; lack of volume and distortion when played loud.

Knowing that we use a pair of subwoofers, compare as one will, example:

Rythmik Audio, FV15HP(1 port):

12.5Hz...16Hz......20Hz........25Hz.......31.5Hz.....40Hz........50Hz....63Hz........80Hz......100Hz......125Hz	

98.5dB...104dB...108.3dB...111.7dB...115.3dB...117.8dB...118dB...117.9dB...117.8dB...117.6dB...117.2dB


----------



## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

Good point Bee.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Thanks!

Either which way, if wanting lots of authoritative bass, subwoofers are gonna cost ya.

And for the pleasure they bring, subwoofers are worth every bit. I can't share how much joy and happiness our pair of subwoofers have brought into our home theater life. Every movie is on a higher level of sonic quality as the viewer is sucked into the movie as opposed to just an outsider looking in. To lose our subs would be literally like losing a close friend for the sonic emotional emptiness that would be created.


----------



## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

jason1234567 said:


> I doubt i can make that sale.. what's the regular price? Will they give me a rain check maybe?


Just in case you're wondering, they extended the sale until May 8.


----------



## vardo (Aug 28, 2010)

I would jump on the Outlaw LFM-1 if you can save the $500 before May 8th, while it's on sale.
Outlaws customer service is top notch.

The sub was designed by Dr. Hsu, and is very similar to the VTF2/MK4. I had the VTF2/3 sub,
along with many other (5) subs from HSU. Out of all of them I liked the VTF2 the best.....
even beter than the VTF3/MK3.

You didn't give the size of your listening room, which is very important when choosing subs.
(maybe I missed that).

Regardless, best of luck.


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Hi, Well right now my system is for my bedroom which is like 10x12... it's possible i can get $500 before the 8th.. i might have to max out a credit card to make it happen. How much is that sub again when it's not on sale?


----------



## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

jason1234567 said:


> How much is that sub again when it's not on sale?


I'm not certain, but I think it was $549 + shipping. The current sale includes free shipping.

You could also wait for a b-stock one to become available, https://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/bstock.html
Those are listed at $499 and include free shippiing. It could be a long wait.

If you miss the sale and go with the PB-1000, I really don't think you'll be disappointed.


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Is the OutLaw better then the PB-1000?

I really think i can make it happen with the $500 by the 8th if thats the way to go.

I'm Just affraid with my newly found speaker addiction that one of these $500 subs will only leave me wanting more.


----------



## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

jason1234567 said:


> Is the OutLaw better then the PB-1000? I really think i can make it happen with the $500 by the 8th if thats the way to go. I'm Just affraid with my newly found speaker addiction that one of these $500 subs will only leave me wanting more.


One quality sub will satisfy your upgraditis for awhile. Especially coming from three lower quality entry level subs. Best upgrade would just to buy another one later.


----------



## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

jason1234567 said:


> Hi, Well right now my system is for my bedroom which is like 10x12... it's possible i can get $500 before the 8th.. i might have to max out a credit card to make it happen. How much is that sub again when it's not on sale?


If you have to finance it, you can't afford it. I certainly would not be spending more money on luxuries if you already have credit card debt. Just my opinion, but I'd be on ramen noodles and selling non necessities if I was a slave to credit cards.

Home audio is a fun hobby but its not worth making a financial crisis worse. Save up some money, there will be more sales.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Bear123 said:


> Home audio is a fun hobby but its not worth making a financial crisis worse. Save up some money, there will be more sales.


Bear.....you left out....."You have been denied boyfriend."...


----------



## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

jamesfrazier said:


> One quality sub will satisfy your upgraditis for awhile. Especially coming from three lower quality entry level subs.





Bear123 said:


> If you have to finance it, you can't afford it. I certainly would not be spending more money on luxuries if you already have credit card debt.
> 
> Home audio is a fun hobby but its not worth making a financial crisis worse. Save up some money, there will be more sales.


I agree with both.
I can't say if or how much better the LFM1-Plus is than the PB-1000, I've only heard the Outlaw. Perhaps it's got a wee bit more 'oomph'...?
If you can afford to get the Outlaw and pay off the credit card in full, consider it. But, don't put a big strain on the finances for it.




jason1234567 said:


> I'm Just affraid with my newly found speaker addiction that one of these $500 subs will only leave me wanting more.


I have found that when it comes to subwoofers, we (many of us) will always be wanting more...


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

^ Thanks sir, your right there will be more sales and it's not like i really need a new sub, yea i want a higher end sub but i can live with the 2 i have hooked up for awhile. i rarely get the chance to let them rumble anyway as i live in a condo at the moment. I've gotten complaints already so i had to turn my subs down. Even at the lower, my subs are still throwing decent enough bass to compliment a good move or even music. It's when i put these subs to the test is when i realize they are entry level subs. I never had the chance to hear a high end home sub in action, before i joined this forum i thought i had good subs. I've heard higher end car subs like the Earthquake XLT's running off a Hifonics Boltar amp, this was ages ago when i was into car audio. It's because of those earthquakes that i know the difference between bass and BASS.

That's also when i started to learn the difference between a loud system and a good system. A lot of people have loud systems and they think they have good stuff but the distortion would drive me insane. I learned about clean power and it's when i heard a good system i craved that same clean sound except now it's for home audio. 

I just bought a pair of Boston Acoustic VR1's and a VRC center speaker, i got a deal for $30 for all three. I paid $50 for my RX-V750 receiver, $60 for my Polk Audio series 2 monitors and $50 for the Polk Audio Psw250 sub. I don't think you can get a better system for less then $200 lol. 

I'm glad i ran into this forum and signed up, i've learned alot already and also saved some money that i would have spent on more speakers or other equipment just because i'm thinking i'm getting a deal.

Thanks everyone


----------



## Bear123 (Dec 31, 2013)

Wow, great deals on your purchases....lots of bang for your buck there for sure.


----------



## jason1234567 (Apr 11, 2014)

Just boughy a Yamaha Rx-V1065 for $100.. my addiction is getting worst, now all i can think about is getting a good sub.. i don't think i'll be able to rest until i get it. I have to try and sell the 3 i have.. i have em all hooked up now and experimenting with placement.. i'm getting disapointed just knowing they are .. is there a rehab for speaker addiction..i need help


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

jason1234567 said:


> .... i have em all hooked up now and experimenting with placement.. i'm getting disapointed just knowing they are .. is there a rehab for speaker addiction..i need help


There's no rehab. We're it and we're enablers. :devil:

As a suggestion, if you haven't already, download and get a freeware copy of REW up and running. The software is easy to download and install. You'll need two tools to aid the measuring process. You'll need a digital sound meter which you can get at Radio Shack and a measuring microphone.

Once installed, there's a bit of a frustrating learning curve to go through but once you get it all figured out, it's all point-n-click and will help you get the best out of the subwoofers you currently have.


----------



## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

^ agreed! REW is a great tool!


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Basshead81 said:


> ^ agreed! REW is a great tool!


It's kinda cool. This website is cool. Being the home of REW, I and others like you won't get yelled at for recommending REW.

...


----------



## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

BeeMan458 said:


> It's kinda cool. This website is cool. Being the home of REW, I and others like you won't get yelled at for recommending REW.
> 
> ...


No kidding...yet those that gave you slack are over there pushing REW everyday.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Basshead81 said:


> No kidding...yet those that gave you slack are over there pushing REW everyday.


LOL

I guess they didn't like the competition.

...

LOL

(too funny)

...:bigsmile:

(and even though very happy with our pair of subwoofers, I'm envious of you having *three* subwoofers that are nearfield)

(why have one when you can have three)


----------



## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

Oh yea 3 nearfield is Fun stuff! Do you have your eyes on a 3rd or is 2 FV15HP's giving you all you need?


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Basshead81 said:


> Oh yea 3 nearfield is Fun stuff! Do you have your eyes on a 3rd or is 2 FV15HP's giving you all you need?


I would love to have three but with the flat graph that we have, there's no point. Personally, I'd love to have a third but, set up the way we are, I cannot rationalize the purchase to the wife.

Of course, I don't need to rationalize anything to me as I'm not rational.

...


...


----------



## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

Lol


----------

