# 2 Channel Audio 2 subs vs 1.. Full range or not?



## airpiratehkg (May 27, 2008)

Folks I am about to admit defeat. My room acoustics are not the best but, I have to say I thoroughly disappointed with my setup. I seem to have no luck what so ever at integrating a sub with non-full range towers. Mythos Ones and a Supercube I just do not seem to want to marry. At least for what I am used to. I grew up with 4 1970's vintage JBL L-100 Century's coupled with a Marantz receiver (the good old ones). My dad even let my have a pair for a while. Full range speakers seem to be much much easier to setup than this new school sub, non-full range main setup. I hear lots of talk that due to low freqs sub placement is not that critical (not that I'd call a crossover at 80Hz "sub"). Man you could a fooled me! Getting a smooth bass transition most importantly level from my mains to by sub has not been easy. I've ran YPAO on my RX-V2600 auto setup config to skip speaker size check which I manually set the mains to small and crossed at 80Hz per DefTechs reccomendation. Unless I adjust my sub gain to less than 1/4 (2-3 o clock position) it gives me error W3 (speaker level mismatch). After listening to that I might as well unplug the sub and stick in a closet. So I killed the YPAO and tried my own config (Mains - small and crossed at 80Hz) listened to a broad cross section of music, Beatles, Stones, Steely Dan, Dave Koz, Janet Jackson etc. For the life of me I can not find a happy median level to set the sub at. It really swings from one end of the spectrum to the other (seems like all or none). Would 2 subs help smooth things out a bit or compound my problem? How high can I go with the crossover? I've heard the Yamaha vs Denon debate over and over about brightness etc.. But does one have any better bass management than the other (I am talking real differences that can be heard) Or throw this stuff out and go seek out full range speakers? :surrender:


----------



## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

airpiratehkg said:


> I hear lots of talk that due to low freqs sub placement is not that critical (not that I'd call a crossover at 80Hz "sub").


I think you've been getting some bad advice.. sub placement can be extremely important for proper integration. Here are a couple of websites I found when I did a quick google:
Link 1
Link 2
I think the sub placement issue you're referencing is the one that low frequencies aren't locatable, i.e., you can't pinpoint the low frequency source like you can with the upper frequencies.

And then there are all of the issues about room nodes and other eq'ing needs that this forum's REW program are designed to alleviate.

the fact that you're having some problems integrating your sub in a sub/sat setup isn't that surprising to me. But it can usually be overcome with a little bit of work.

Before going with another sub, I'd try different placements for the sub and see if that fixes your problem. You can also go the BFD/REW route. At the very least, if you can grab a RS sound meter and run REW then post some graphs, the folks here migt be able to help.

Dual subs will also help, but is probably the most expensive option for you. It's probably the "best" option if funds aren't an issue.. but if you're like me, they are.

Good luck.

JCD


----------



## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm a fan of big full range towers or at least reasonably close, as in below 35Hz. Six 5 1/4" drivers just isn't the same as a 12". I currently have 1 big system and two small systems,... the big one is far easier to set up and get sounding right.

Based on my experience, I just don't buy into the sat/sub combo as the better way to go. I'd imagine a lot has to do with the equipment. So far, I have not heard any sat/sub or bookshelf combo that would make me give up my towers.

I'd say throw it out and get what you want, but it is your money,.... maybe find someone to sell it to instead :bigsmile:


----------

