# Passing REW EQ settings onto the DEQ2496?



## ssabripo

Is there a special mode i have to put the DEQ in to accept the signals from the REW EQ via the Midi-USB interface?

is there another way to do this if not thru the midi interface?

here is my setup:


----------



## Julien43

I hope I'm wrong but I believe that REW isn't compatible with the DEQ 2496

You have to choose the FBQ2496 from REW's equalizer menu to be able to transpose the decimal values to fractional values. The filter values must be entered manually 

Maybe there is an easier way, that I'm not aware of!!


----------



## ssabripo

hmm...that's wierd.

I was pretty sure it would work


----------



## JohnM

The Midi protocols differ on the various Behringer units, I'm trying to get hold of a DEQ2496 to add support for it.


----------



## Julien43

JohnM


> I'm trying to get hold of a DEQ2496 to add support for it.


How long would you need to hang on to the DEQ?


----------



## JohnM

About a week, provided its arrival coincided with my having some spare time to work on it  Spare time is in rather short supply at the moment though, as preparations for my wedding (just over 2 weeks away :yikes are taking up most of it.


----------



## Julien43

Congratulations John!!! I didn't know. I'm very happy for you!

Obviously, the DEQ thing is way down the priority list

Just shoot me an E-mail when ever you find time and I'll send mine to you

Again, Congratulations to You and your future Wife 

Sincerely,
Julien


----------



## ssabripo

Julien43 said:


> Congratulations John!!! I didn't know. I'm very happy for you!
> 
> Obviously, the DEQ thing is way down the priority list
> 
> Just shoot me an E-mail when ever you find time and I'll send mine to you
> 
> Again, Congratulations to You and your future Wife
> 
> Sincerely,
> Julien


what are you crazy Julien???!!!!!:raped: rder: :nono: How can there be any higher priority than the DEQ working?!!!!:bigsmile: :rofl2: 

just kidding...see below


JohnM said:


> About a week, provided its arrival coincided with my having some spare time to work on it  Spare time is in rather short supply at the moment though, as preparations for my wedding (just over 2 weeks away :yikes are taking up most of it.


John, congrats man, and yes, I wish you good luck :clap: ............but if you need a break from wedding stuff, or honeymooning, etc, the DEQ is a great break!!!!:bigsmile:


----------



## Sonnie

JohnM said:


> About a week, provided its arrival coincided with my having some spare time to work on it  Spare time is in rather short supply at the moment though, as preparations for my wedding (just over 2 weeks away :yikes are taking up most of it.


Wow... this is news! Good news! Congrats! We may have to make an official announcement. You kinda slipped this on in there on us, huh?



Btw Julien... shipping from NC to the UK might be more than you want to pay.


----------



## terry j

it doesn't take long to manually load filters though, the current craze in society of doing everything by remote control from the couch is getting OUT OF HAND!!!!

And as you usually only do it once ( tweak and eq the system) is it really worth the bother??

Congratulations John, feels like this is in the wrong place tho!!


----------



## Julien43

Sonnie writes


> Btw Julien... shipping from NC to the UK might be more than you want to pay.


Thanks for the Heads Up Sonnie
I didn't know that John is located in the UK!

I don't want to gush about John, REW, and the great resource these forums are to music/movie lovers

Let me say that I would be honored to be able to contribute, in some tiny way, to the continued development of REW


----------



## JohnM

I've heard from Berhinger that they are arranging a unit, so that should solve the problem.


----------



## ssabripo

John,

hope your wedding went well.....now that you are officially a married man, and honeymoon is probably done ( :rofl2: ) , any updates you can give us? would love to hear if there have been any updates done. :T 

take care..

-Sherv


----------



## JohnM

Wedding day was great, thanks, now on honeymoon in New Zealand. Haven't seen the unit from Behringer yet so no progress to report.


----------



## ssabripo

bump! 

hope you find some time in your extremely busy schedule to give us an update on this John....looking forward to this.


----------



## brucek

You do know that the connection from REW to the DEQ is only a convenience that can be manually carried out?

brucek


----------



## ssabripo

brucek said:


> You do know that the connection from REW to the DEQ is only a convenience that can be manually carried out?
> 
> brucek


yes bruce....we talked about it. 

but in true american lazy style, would be nice to have the rig setup, and measure->tweak->sendtoREW->Repeat, all in one smooth clik


----------



## ssabripo

are there any updates on the REW -> DEQ2496 via the midi connection?


----------



## JohnM

Sorry, no progress on that. The unit from Behringer never materialised and I've not found the time to buy a unit and add support for it, but I will get to it.


----------



## Rogerio Neiva

John, can we help in any way ? I do have a DEQ2496 and I am willing to help if you give the right instructions on what to do.

And I am pretty sure that the other members are also willing to help.

And congratulations for your marriage.


----------



## JohnM

Thanks for the offer, but it would not be practical to test the comms implementation via a third party. I'll buy a unit to implement and check the protocol.


----------



## Ballistix

Oh my I'm so glad I saw this post I was about to rush out and buy the DEQ2496 today in Oxford. Bugger now I can't even use REW at all because I can't find the old BFD anywhere here. **** it...John can I help at all with the DEQ where are you in the UK?

Is there NO way I can make REW work with this unit?!!

T


----------



## terry j

Ballistix said:


> Oh my I'm so glad I saw this post I was about to rush out and buy the DEQ2496 today in Oxford. Bugger now I can't even use REW at all because I can't find the old BFD anywhere here. **** it...John can I help at all with the DEQ where are you in the UK?
> 
> Is there NO way I can make REW work with this unit?!!
> 
> T


Of course you can!! Simply enter the requirements manually.

What's the big deal with a midi connection?? I don't understand the fuss.

the unit itself is perfectly workable, responds perfectly to the suggestions/settings of REW. It is actually a very good unit.

Why is everyone SOOOO lazy that they can't do it by hand?? Trust me, it will take you longer to work out how to use the unit than any amount of manual input required.


----------



## Ballistix

That's easy. The fuss is I don't know what I am doing so anything to automate such a process is important for me when I'm making these sorts of decisions! I've found the DEQ2496 online now. I actually quite like the idea of the MIDI stuff, it interests me, more so than manually transposing into a unit.

T


----------



## terry j

Ballistix said:


> That's easy. The fuss is I don't know what I am doing so anything to automate such a process is important for me when I'm making these sorts of decisions! I've found the DEQ2496 online now. I actually quite like the idea of the MIDI stuff, it interests me, more so than manually transposing into a unit.
> 
> T



Fair enough, I can understand that. However, if all you are going to use the deq for is what you can download into the unit from REW then it's way overkill, save your money and go for a 'lesser' unit.

The deq is capable of WAY more than what limited use REW will give.

On the other hand, if you learn to use the full potential of the deq then it's a doddle to load REW results manually, if you follow my meaning.


----------



## Ballistix

I take your point. I've found a local supplier for the FBQ2496 which I'm just about to go and pickup...so much cheaper! 100 quid.

Also going to get this to drive it, do you think this cable will be OK? http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=A03FK&DOY=8m11

Cheers


----------



## Rogerio Neiva

I am doing everything by hand. It takes doing once, inserting the filters (quite easy), and re-iterate in order to see if now there are no more filters to be inserted meaning that the equalization was successful.

Right now I am starting to work with REW in order just to see how to do it. What buzzes me is what to do with the Waterfall and the remaining data ? How can they be useful ?


----------



## Guest

It is definitely worth the effort to plug the REW filter settings into the DEQ manually. One advantage of the DEQ is that it can do all of the filter processing in the digital domain, and output the result digitally to a higher quality DAC. My signal chain stays digital until just before the amplifiers:

digital SOURCE ---->(optical via SPDIF) ----->SRC2496 (upsampling / jitter correction) -----> (optical via SPDIF) -----> DEQ2496 -----> (digital via AES/EBU) -----> DCX2496 (crossover, DAC) -----> stepped attenuators -----> amplifiers


----------



## brucek

> What buzzes me is what to do with the Waterfall and the remaining data ? How can they be useful ?


Well, you can look at a few experiments I did with waterfalls here, and see if it may be helpful. 

brucek


----------



## Ballistix

Hi guys, I tried it all out today and had a nightmare. Tried the internal card in my Acer laptop (It's 5920G), quite a modern machine.

Got crackes and pops thru the subs, nightmare...then tryied my SB NX USB sound card. No sound...ACK..spent 4 hours trying to get something to work...feedback through the NX was appalling so I couldn't turn the mic up.

Then just at the last minute...I tried the SPIDF out on the Soundblaster NX 2 USB and the MIC in on the internal laptop card!! Testing appeared to work then I had to stop. 

Will try again tomorrow...but can anyone see any problems with me doing it this way, using the two cards? I can do the loop back test tomorrow to calibrate the "cards" then see how it goes from there. No feedback and it was a very clean sound..

Was driving me nuts. If someone says this won't work then I'm knackered because I just cant get it to work with one card.

T


----------



## brucek

> Tried the internal card in my Acer laptop


Most laptops only have mic-in and not a line-in that REW prefers, since the SPL meters output line level signals... use an external card with line-in....



> ...feedback through the NX was appalling so I couldn't turn the mic up


This is caused by the cards monitor mode turned on. This is the feature that allows you to record a CD for example and listen at the same time. It needs to be shut off. Look at the soundcards app and deselect it (it can be called by a variety of silly names). You can also go to the Windows XP Playback Mixer and ensure line-in is shut off or muted.....



> using the two cards?


Just use the external card. Set stereo only, with all effects off and monitor off and it will be fine. Use line-in and line-out.

brucek


----------



## Ballistix

Hi Bruce, I've tried eveything through the external card just can't make it turn off the monitoring. Unfortunately I'm on Vista, which sucks when it comes to driver functionality. I've also got a technology background so would usually find the driver stuff quickly. I just can't see where to turn off the monitoring in Vista...I'll search a bit more today.

My laptop does however have line-in so I'm pretty sue it's looking good. The levels look very good when testing. So at the very least I'll try and do a few takes today and put them up here for people to have a look at.

T


----------



## Ballistix

OK here is my graph using 2 cards. I simply cannot get this to work with line in and line out on the same card in Vista. About to give up sadly...very annoying as I've just bought the EQ box etc to treat the LFE.

I just get white noise and horrible things trying to use one card. So here is a graph with the input on one card and the output on the other, I can't use line out but I can use SPIDF on my NX USB card. It all calibrated nicely and I've also used the ECM cal file from the site and I've created a calibrated file for the setup for the cards. All tested OK.

However, at the end of my measurement I get an warning that basically says...










However the measurement looks like this. I presume the tail is where the error is?










Any help gratefully accepted although if you think it is to do with the setup I'm pretty knackered on that front it seems.


----------



## brucek

> I can't use line out but I can use SPIDF on my NX USB card.


Not really allowed since that would render the soundcard cal file inaccurate.



> It all calibrated nicely


No, your soundcard calibration file is bad. It should be basically a straight line except for the very low and very high ends where it should fall off. See what yours looks like - it's the dotted line.

brucek


----------



## Ballistix

I'm pretty much knackered then. It doesn't work for me with one card. I've spent near to 6 hours now trying to make it work, and it won't.

Not sure what I can do now. If I use one card I get white noise in the background. The ECM8000 won't pickup enough through the NX USB card, just won't have it. Line out I've sorted now but switching off the monitor but I don't get anything thru the mic once I do.

Dead end. Looks like I'll have to pay for someone to come and do this for me. At least the EQ box can be used as part of their calibration service.

shame, was hoping to do this, unless you have any other suggestions? Anyone else successfully done this with Vista?

Thanks
T


----------



## JohnM

What preamp are you using with the ECM8000? It needs a preamp with phantom power.


----------



## Ballistix

Hi it's this?

http://www.behringer.com/802/index.cfm?lang=eng

that what you mean?

cheers

TT


----------



## Ballistix

John, Bruce, just realised I was using a mono in mini jack for the line in. I'm assuming that won't work or give me spurious results? Off to get another stereo-mini-to-two-phonos connector. Hopefully that will help.

Keep you posted, desperately want this to work.

T


----------



## brucek

> I'm assuming that won't work or give me spurious results?


That's correct. You do indeed require a stereo adapter or cable that splits out the right and left channel, so you can plug the microphone into one of them....

brucek


----------



## Ballistix

Hi Bruce, I think I have calibrated the card ok can you confirm? Here is my next attempt...please let me know what you think...what is all the big noise at the end? :S

Feel like a n00b but getting there slowly..


----------



## Ballistix

And another cut off at 200Hz OK I'm getting the hang of it!

What you say Bruce? Does the calibrated card graph look better? I'm also using the cal file for the ECM8000. 

Cheers in advance!
T


----------



## brucek

Yep, the soundcard cal file is fine now.

Always use a vertical scale of *45dB-105dBSPL* and a horizontal scale of *15Hz-200Hz* for subwoofer or low frequency measurements and 15Hz-(any upper range) for full range measurements.

When plotting full range measurements, turn on smoothing (selectable in the left pane of REW). Smoothing is used for full range measurements, where reflections can cause comb filtering that makes it difficult to see the underlying trend of the response. That's what all the 'big noise' is at the end of the response.  Smoothing is rarely used for low frequency measurements as it would obscure the true shape of the response and so not allow accurate correction filters to be determined.

(some of your pics are missing)

brucek


----------



## Ballistix

Hi Bruce, fantastic!

OK what other graphs do you need to see?

Cheers
T

Also getting this error when I try and find peaks.


----------



## Ballistix

OK, managed to sort that out! I've been through the rest and got rid of peaks and downloaded the recommended profile to my FBQ2496. Here is the new profile taken using a measurement with the filters on in the FBQ.

What do you think? Any pointers...how do I raise the "dips" so to speak...not very technical with the phraseology I'm afriad! Any help gratefully accepted!

Regards,

Tony


----------



## brucek

Display your graphs with a vertical scale of 45dB-105dB and a horizontal scale that starts at 15Hz.

Click the little save icon in the lower left corner of your graph and it will save a jpg of the graph only - we don't need all the other stuff around it.

The response looks fine though..........

brucek


----------



## Ballistix

Hi Bruce, OK, how is this?










Anything you think I can do to tweak it? Do the dips matter?

Cheers for all of the help so far!

Also any advice how I can get a HUM out that has been introduced. I can hear a buzz in the sub that wasn't there until the FBQ was introduced into the line. I've put a power cleaning socket on there but it hasn't helped...

Regards,
Tony


----------



## brucek

> Hi Bruce, OK, how is this?


Beauty... 



> Anything you think I can do to tweak it? Do the dips matter?


This is the point where the mains are usually added in and the exact same measure is taken, except now we would look at the relative level balancing of the sub and mains and also the crossover region to see how the mains mix with the sub. Many sub only dips are eliminated at this point by addingthe mains. If a dip or peak is occuring around the crossover, then the subs phase control and the receivers sub distance control are tweaked to get rid of it. Sometimes a bit of filtering is also required.



> any advice how I can get a HUM out that has been introduced


Yeah, that's a ground loop that these BFD/FBQ's are notorious for creating. To prove it's a ground loop usually you would test with a 'cheater adapter' which basically lifts the safety third prong ground from the FBQ power cord. If the hum goes away, it's a ground loop. Sometimes it's caused by cable TV or some other external ground connected to your system. Some people have to install a transformer based hum eliminator to remove the ground loop.

brucek


----------



## Ballistix

Ah OK, I think I see. But for now thats a better profile for the LFE and I could leave that in place until the next step?

I'll remove the centre pin shortly and see if that fixes it!

Thanks again.

Cheers


----------



## Ballistix

Bruce, bang on! Removed the earth, no hum. Will leave it for now then come back to doing it properly!

Going to watch the latest Harry Potter tonight with the EQ in place. The Bypass is off and lots of red lights in the right channel so I'm assuming it's in place, it must be because my last screen grab is with it in place.

Thanks for the fab help!
Cheers
T


----------



## Ballistix

Bruce, it's made a noticable difference to the listening pleasure. Super stuff. I'll do more reading up with where I go next. I'd like to donate to the site for your help and the super service all round. 

Found the donation button and made a donation. Thanks for the super software and great help.

Regards,
Tony


----------



## jemhayward

Did anyone ever get REW settings into the DEQ via midi? I've found the Auto EQ on the DEQ works really well, but the REW process gives me more feeling of control, but adding the values in manually is hard work if you want to do it several times.... (ok I'm just lazy)
Full room EQ with Quad 57s and a Linn Sizmik, is awsome - best £200 I've ever spent on music.


----------



## brucek

> Did anyone ever get REW settings into the DEQ via midi?


No, it's not supported.... you have to enter by hand...


----------



## mtbdudex

brucek said:


> No, it's not supported.... you have to enter by hand...


Been a while since I posted here @ "TheShack".

I was on the fencepost of which EQ to get, the FBQ2496 Feedback Destroyer or the DEQ2496 Ultracurve Pro.

I've done a search in this forum and seems for my IB usage the FBQ2496 will serve me fine - and save me $150 as well.

I have to ask, has passing REW setting into the DEQ2496 been deemed not worth programing because few people have that need? I can see that. I'm not complaining, just lazy like others.
Part of me likes the feature set of the DEQ2496, but again seems like not really needed for IB Eq purposes (from what I read here)

Thx.


----------



## brucek

It's on Johns list of things-to-do, but hasn't happened yet.

brucek


----------



## mtbdudex

I just save $150 and ordered the FBQ2496, so one less person who'd need that.
(sounds like little bang for the software programming effort IMO)


----------



## sadhill

Hi,

Curious and dreaming :daydream:, I tried yesterday to pass filters from REW to the DEQ via midi... (using the FBQ preset in the equalizer selection)

The transfer gauge worked fine, it seemed to load, but I could not find the data on the DEQ. I suppose they should appear in the PEQ screen ?

Seemingly there shouldn't be too much left to do to have it work ...:scratchhead:


----------



## Timoxx4

I also have the DEQ2496 and would LOVE for it to be supported by REW for MIDI transfers. I have had it for 3 or 4 years now in my system for SUB EQ and am over doing manual filter adjustments with it. Call me lazy if you will but it has a MIDI interface so it would be great if we could actually use it ?

I haven't used REW yet but am about too. I have been planning to use REW for the last 2 years but never got round to buying an SPL meter, Sound card, Laptop, Mic preamp and all the cables. I only have the DEQ and an ECM8000 right now. 

So as you can see i don't really want to have to shelve the DEQ and buy a BFD on top of all that just so i can do the MIDI trick that everyone raves about.

So if there is any way to add the DEQ to REW's list that would be ace


----------



## sadhill

Hi,
In fact I realized after my post we must be aware that sending raw data to the DEQ would result in a very uncomplete use of this machine: it has far more capabilities than the FBQ does... 
The export would probably use only a very small amount of the adjustments, and a lot of manual tweaking would still be necessary...

Whereas the FBQ has only one possible adjustment way, and makes it therefore much more easy to handle from an external soft.

Am I right ?


----------



## JohnM

The DEQ has more capabilities, but for the purposes of modal equalisation only the parametric EQ features are required. Any use beyond that would need to be handled manually.


----------



## Timoxx4

JohnM said:


> The DEQ has more capabilities, but for the purposes of modal equalisation only the parametric EQ features are required. Any use beyond that would need to be handled manually.



That's all i use anyway. I don't touch any of the other adjustments as they are more likely to mess things up more than fixing anything.

I got mine because a friend recommended it over the BFD units and it can also do Auto EQ with the ECM8000. That made it very attractive to someone who didn't know how to EQ manually at the time. But it only works on the GEQ side and that is 1/3 octave only (way too corse) and it didn't work anyway. It would BOOST all dip frequencies rather than cut the peaks and would boost the wrong ones anyway. And Behringer state in the instructions it is not accurate below 80Hz for Auto EQ and you have to manually force it to EQ below 80Hz if you really want it too. 

It would be a better unit for use with main speakers as it was designed. But the PEQ it has is perfect for some serious SUB EQ.


----------



## jemhayward

Just thought I'd complete this thread, as a lot has happened since I last posted. I used the DEQ2496 with my Quad 57 / Linn Sub system and found that the internal room EQ system came up with very similar results to the RoomEQ software, so I was confident in its settings. Eventually we went a bit mad and bought some Martin Logan summits - we were keen to get going with them, so put the Behringrer into bypass mode, and started listening. The MLs are quite fussy about positioning, but its obvious when its right. The bass sounded fine without using the built in 25Hz and 50 Hz adjusters, so I decided to test it all with the RoomEQ again, and amazingly, there are almost no bass problems at all. I dialled in the small correction into the DEQ2496, and it did remove a slight boom on one or two difficult pieces, but the MLs are so revealing, we decided that the system as a whole sounds better without the Behringer in circuit, though we do now use it as a DAC when playing music from the computer - but that IS another story.


----------

