# money well spent??



## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

Ok, I need some help, I'm ready to by a SVS sub, my choices are 25-31PC+ or SB12+. The cylinder is about $125 more, and what I’ve found regarding specs they are about the same. Will the 25-31 give me the big difference at the better low endor is it similar to the SB12? I plan to place the 25-31 behind my TV cabinet (cabinet is 8-10' off side walls) in the corner, but it will be almost against the walls, will this be a problem? I like the fact that the SB12 will be out in the open so I can show off this money clip:spend: My room is 13x18x8 and other speakers are DefTech SM350/PC2000/PM1000's. My budget could stretch to fit the 25-31, but that would put in the hole and I have the cash now for the SB12. Since I don't plan to upgrade again for a long time I want to make sure I get it right the first time. Listening habits are 25/75 music to movies, but that is sliding more too 50/50 since I just got the DefTechs.:bigsmile:


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

the pc plus will demolish the sb12 in SPL ... even SVS will tell you that if you can fit the the bigger ported subs, to get those instead of the sb12 which is tailored for those who have space restrictions or a big % of music usage.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I agree... if I had the choice between those two I would choose the PC+ and never look back. You will be thankful on movies with good low bass. :T


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## Mitch G (Sep 8, 2006)

FWIW, I have the 25-31 PC+ and love it. I have it tuned to 20Hz using one of the provided port plugs and then equalized with a BFD. The cylinder is still rather large. Mine's behind my TV, so it's not a problem for me. So, you may want to get some poster board and do some level of mock-ups for both subs and see how they "fit" in your room.

Also, if not in a terrible hurry you may want to watch for b-stock and save - I think it's generally a $50 discount for b-stock, iirc. I bought mine b-stock and you would never know. I'm pretty sure that most of the time the b-stocks are returned because the buyer was surprised by the sub's size. If you are familiar with perl, I can send you a little hack I wrote that checks the b-stock page and will tell you if it sees what you are looking for.


Mitch


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## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

Mitch - yes, please send, thank you. I have also posed this question to SVS and am waiting for a reply. i think i'm going to try doing a mockup of the clyinder, the WAF has full veto power when it comes to this sub. I showed her a photo of each sub and she want to know if i can paint them to match the walls better :gah: She is kind of board with the SB12 but the clyinder is going to take much more work even if it is behind the TV. 







:foottap:


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## Mitch G (Sep 8, 2006)

The cylinder is wrapped in a velvet cloth type of thing. So, painting it would definitely be trickier since you would have to remove the outer skin and then I don't know what. 
I bet it would basically be invisible behind a 60" TV, though.


Mitch


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

At a guess the sub position you've shown by the entry to the dining room won't work. The sub has too little wall reenforcement and is next to one of the openings out of the volume you want to power.

Behind the TV is the best option to blend with your main speakers easily, but behind your couch would give you the strongest bass. Remember that the cylinder can be laid on it's side in either location.

If for some reason the cylinder is vetoed in all these positions, and you end up using the SB12+, the behind the couch in the corner placement would really help couple the bass output to your listening position.


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## tc-60guy (May 26, 2007)

Hello Organicled, Although I'm a delighted SB-12 owner I would lean toward the bigger sub if I had the room. I live in a studio apartment in NY so size does matter. I'm using my sub mostly for music so bone crushing bass is not high on my list of priorities. Although the SB-12 hangs in there pretty well for vidio use It's working hard and sounds like it! For mixed use in a larger room the bigger sub is the way to go. Hope this helps.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

I have the 20-39PCi and it really kicks your butt. The + would be even better.
I also agree with placing it behind the t.v. -OR- behind the bend of the "L" couch in that corner.


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## Guest (Oct 6, 2007)

SVS has a b-stock PC-30-29Plus! Today! Good for anyone looking!


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## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

Thanks for all the input, i never thought about laying the clyinder down, that might just work. i am saving up extra cash to get both subs to do a side-by-side comparison and just return the other. i know it may cost me about an extra $75 if i need to send the cylinder back but at least i will know how both sound in that room and a won't have regrets. Humm... on its side.


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

where is north huntington? i'm in allentown if it's close enough to drive for a listen....


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

organicled said:


> . . . Humm... on its side.


This is not a new idea, BTW -- the first horizontal cylinders I remember were the Bazooka brand car subs in the mid '80s.

The placement of a horizontal cylinder 'behind the couch' has a couple unique characteristics:

It's the most effective way to stretch your sub dollar when you have a large space and a small budget.

It even has a name: the Horizontal Cannon!


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## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

E-A-G-L-E-S said:


> where is north huntington? i'm in allentown if it's close enough to drive for a listen....


25 miles east of Pittsburgh, Allentown may be a far drive, but I great appreciate the offer. Wife just informed me that she would not be happy if she saw a sub in front of the speakers, if it was behind the TV she would like that better. I took this as a law not just her recommendation, so clyinder it is. Looking at getting an older PC-Ultra, will an older (3 year)Ultra be a good choice? I know it is on the far end of the subs i was looking at but, well, just may happen.:dontknow:


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

A used PC-Ultra would be an excellent choice for you IMO, giving you much needed output and very good sound quality.


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## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

Update : 
I bought a SVS PC20-39+, it should be here by Friday:yay:, now what am i suppose to do? 

Just joking:neener: 

But i do have a quick question, I currently have my crossover set to 80 hertz for my Def Tech SM350/PC20/PM speakers, my receiver can not do more than one crossover, would anyone know if I need to change the crossover higher or lower or is that something i should do after calibrating?:huh:


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

It is something of personal taste. The single crossover is all that many receivers have, it is the general point between mains and sub. 
80Hz is too high for many as it lets in some 80+ signals and that is more of a midbass. Some like 80Hx to get the punch. 
I set mine to 80Hz for music and 60Hz for movies.


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## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

What receivers have the ability to do multi able crossovers at a reasonable price? I've looked a specs and I can't tell if they can do more than one or not.


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

You might be interested in reading at least part of the following article:
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html

To skip to the part that addresses your question, scroll down until you see a dark bold header line:
"Mixing high and low frequency crossovers in a multi-channel set up"

The bottom line is you are better off sticking with a single xo frequency.

If you want to move that xo down to the 50-60 Hz range, you should invest in surrounds that will play that low rather than a receiver that tries to accomodate them.


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## Captain Crunch (Apr 2, 2007)

If your looking for something at a decent price Id look at the Onkyo 605 that's great bang for buck unit. 
U can get it for $349 here...ONKYO .605 ......never used this dealer though ......you may want to check pricegrabber.


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## Scuba Diver (Sep 28, 2007)

That was a good article thanks for posting.


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