# Need suggestions for Cd player and connection advise?



## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

I am in the market for a decent cd player that I can use in my 2 channel system. My budget is $300.00 and I am definitely interested in buying used so that I can get more for my hard earned cash. I plan to also buy an outboard dac sometime soon as well. My budget for is $400.00 for a used dac. As far as dacs go, I have been looking into possibly a Music Hall 25.2 or a 25.3 or possibly a 15.2, also considering a Cambridge Audio dac magic, or a Musical Fidelity V-dac. I am open to any other debates or suggestions on those dacs I listed or if anyone can recommend a dac that might be a good fit then please chim in. I also am in the market for a new preamp as well. My budget for the preamp is around $400 to $700 and although I already started a thread for preamp suggestions, if anyone here has any suggestions for a preamp then please chim in.

I want to do some experimenting with regards to using the cd player hooked up via analog outs then into a dac then into a preamp, versus a dvd player hooked into my avr via hdmi. So to recap, my questions are;

1. What is a good used Cd player that yall recommend for around $300.00?
2. What is a good used Dac that yall might recommend for around $400.00?
3. How many of you think there will be a significant difference in sound quality between using a cd player as a transport hooked into a dac via analog connection then connected to a preamp or avr, versus using a dvd player hooked into an avr via hdmi?

I am looking forward to hearing your suggestions!


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

I have come accross a Creek Cd-50 for under 300.00. What do you guys think of this CDP?


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

Jetjones said:


> I want to do some experimenting with regards to using the cd player hooked up via analog outs then into a dac then into a preamp, versus a dvd player hooked into my avr via hdmi.


Curious: If you're running analogue outputs from a CD player, it's already doing the digital-to-analogue conversion, so why would you run it into a DAC? Wouldn't you want to run the CD player into the DAC via a digital connection so that the DAC does the conversion?



> 1. What is a good used Cd player that yall recommend for around $300.00?
> 2. What is a good used Dac that yall might recommend for around $400.00?
> 3. How many of you think there will be a significant difference in sound quality between using a cd player as a transport hooked into a dac via analog connection then connected to a preamp or avr, versus using a dvd player hooked into an avr via hdmi?


1. OPPO BDP-83 
2. Emotiva XDA-1
3. I don't think there will be a significant difference.

IMO, and YMMV.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

eljay said:


> Curious: If you're running analogue outputs from a CD player, it's already doing the digital-to-analogue conversion, so why would you run it into a DAC? Wouldn't you want to run the CD player into the DAC via a digital connection so that the DAC does the conversion?
> 
> 
> 1. OPPO BDP-83
> ...



Sorry I meant that I will use the digital coax output into a dac. I want to try it both ways, first using the analog outputs into the pre-amp and second using the digital outputs into a dac then the dac into the preamp. I may go with the Oppo, do you think this will give the same sound quality compared to the Creek when using both analog and also digital outputs?


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

1. Cambridge Audio 640C, Emotiva ERC-2, NAD C565BEE, Oppo BDP-83, Music Hall MMF CD-25, Creek CD50, Rotel RCD-971, anything Arcam in good condition in your price range, etc.
2. Schiit Bifrost $349 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit2/1.html http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-bifrost-dac/reviews/5938
3. I would think there could be a significant difference depending on the components.

The Creek CD-50 seems well regarded: http://stereotimes.com/ampcd050504.shtml http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/creek-cd-50-mk-2-cd-player-9-2004.html


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

jackfish said:


> 1. Cambridge Audio 640C, Emotiva ERC-2, NAD C565BEE, Oppo BDP-83, Music Hall MMF CD-25, Creek CD50, Rotel RCD-971, anything Arcam in good condition in your price range, etc.
> 2. Schiit Bifrost $349 http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit2/1.html http://www.head-fi.org/products/schiit-audio-bifrost-dac/reviews/5938
> 3. I would think there could be a significant difference depending on the components.
> 
> The Creek CD-50 seems well regarded: http://stereotimes.com/ampcd050504.shtml http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_11_3/creek-cd-50-mk-2-cd-player-9-2004.html




Is the Schiit Bifrost a dac? I might be interested in that one. I might also consider a Bel Canto dac1.5 as it seems to be very well regarded. I might actually scrap the idea of buying a new cd player all together and focus on building a really good streaming based system. I mean, cd playback quality is limited to only 16 bit 44.1khz, right? Isn't there quite a bit of 24bit/96 192khz materal available for downloading? I think all I would need is a good sound card + a usb dac that can do 24/96 192khz & a streaming devise such as a Dunn or Squeezebox touch, right? But there is some part of me who wants to explore the higher end analog systems for comparision. Hmm....


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Yes, the Schiit Bifrost is a fully upgradable, 24/192 bitperfect, with asynchronous USB 2.0 and SPDIF inputs, and with a discrete analog section, 32-bit digital to analog converter. It can process 24/192 from all inputs, and does not upsample. It preserves all the original music samples, whether 16/44.1 or 24/192, delivering only bit-perfect data to the DAC.

There are many options for a music server, yet ripped CDs will likely make up the majority of anyone's program material. Redbook (16/44.1) through a good DAC sounds very good. An album of 24/96 music is $18 with 24/192 titles going for $25. Hard Drive space is a real consideration with high resolution downloads. I've also heard that some tracks are just upsampled rather than taken from a hi-res master.

I am running straight from the DAC to the preamp, I'm not sure if one even needs a "streaming" device.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

jackfish said:


> Yes, the Schiit Bifrost is a fully upgradable, 24/192 bitperfect, with asynchronous USB 2.0 and SPDIF inputs, and with a discrete analog section, 32-bit digital to analog converter. It can process 24/192 from all inputs, and does not upsample. It preserves all the original music samples, whether 16/44.1 or 24/192, delivering only bit-perfect data to the DAC.
> 
> There are many options for a music server, yet ripped CDs will likely make up the majority of anyone's program material. Redbook (16/44.1) through a good DAC sounds very good. An album of 24/96 music is $18 with 24/192 titles going for $25. Hard Drive space is a real consideration with high resolution downloads. I've also heard that some tracks are just upsampled rather than taken from a hi-res master.
> 
> I am running straight from the DAC to the preamp, I'm not sure if one even needs a "streaming" device.




Yea I am not sold on the whole streaming and downloading thing, but, it isn't going anywhere and seems to be getting more popular everyday. I wonder how the Bifrost compares to the Benchmark Dac-1? I am probably going to purchase a new Dac-1 in August of this year when I get my bonus.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Have CD players really improved over the years? My Yamaha CDC805 was rated the number one CD player in 1990 by Consumer report and still works flawlessly today. Would there be any reason to not look for something older?


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Have CD players really improved over the years? My Yamaha CDC805 was rated the number one CD player in 1990 by Consumer report and still works flawlessly today. Would there be any reason to not look for something older?



Although I am not sure if cd players have actually changed that much since the late 1980's and early 1990's, but, I do believe that dacs have changed quite a bit. Even though I do plan to also purchase a dac, I plan on purchasing the cd player before the dac and I really want to get a good one. If after I purchase the dac, and can not tell any difference between the cd players dacs and the external dac, then I will sell the external dac. Of course I realize that may in fact be the reality, or that my analog system is not as good or equal to my other digital system (other system is Denon avr and Sony bdp) hooked up via hdmi. Basically what I am trying to do is assemble a really good analog system and compare that to my digital system. Its kind of like a science project!


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

It's been my experience that most AV receivers (when in two channel mode) don't come close to sounding as good as a dedicated two channel preamp. You may not hear or believe that such differences exist. You should determine this yourself.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

JoeESP9 said:


> It's been my experience that most AV receivers (when in two channel mode) don't come close to sounding as good as a dedicated two channel preamp. You may not hear or believe that such differences exist. You should determine this yourself.



Speaking of dedicated 2 channel preamps, are there any that you would recommend for a budget of $1,000.00 and below? I am open to buying used as I believe that I can make my dollar stretch further. Also looking for opinions on cd players and dacs in a similar price range. My speakers are Ascend Acoustics Sierra-1's.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Check my signature. I use an Audio Research Corporation preamp. IMO an ARC, Conrad Johnson, Audible Illusions or any other tubed preamp used or new is the way to go. Check the Audiogon classifieds.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

How do you guys feel about some of the cheaper Musical Fidelity, Music Hall, or Cambridge Audio CD players? I was considering the Musical Fidelity M1CDT transport serving along side a Wyred4Sound MDAC, but I could also probably get the same level of performance by just using my regular bluray player connected to Wyred4Sound MDAC, skipping the transport. Another option I am looking into are the Music Hall cd15.2 CD player, or a Cambridge Audio Azur 350c CD player. Looking to get some additional input on these units?


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Newer CD players will have newer DAC's technology wise. That translates to better sound/performance. I would take any recommendation from Consumers Reports with several large grains of salt. They are by definition concerned with a best buy for the ordinary consumer. Anyone who posts here asking for opinions and advice is far from an ordinary consumer.

Were I buying a household appliance such as a washing machine or a refrigerator I would check Consumers Reports for a rating. With stuff like that I'm just an ordinary consumer. For items in which I have more than a consumer type interest Consumers Reports is inadequate for my purposes. 

With camera's, bicycles, motorcycles, cars and other things I have an enthusiasts interest. For opinions and critiques on those devices I listen to other enthusiasts; both paid reviewers and private owners. After reading a review in Consumers Reports where they panned a Porsche 911 because it didn't hold enough grocery bags I realized they don't serve any enthusiast group very well.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

JoeESP9 said:


> Newer CD players will have newer DAC's technology wise. That translates to better sound/performance. I would take any recommendation from Consumers Reports with several large grains of salt. They are by definition concerned with a best buy for the ordinary consumer. Anyone who posts here asking for opinions and advice is far from an ordinary consumer.
> 
> Were I buying a household appliance such as a washing machine or a refrigerator I would check Consumers Reports for a rating. With stuff like that I'm just an ordinary consumer. For items in which I have more than a consumer type interest Consumers Reports is inadequate for my purposes.
> 
> With camera's, bicycles, motorcycles, cars and other things I have an enthusiasts interest. For opinions and critiques on those devices I listen to other enthusiasts; both paid reviewers and private owners. After reading a review in Consumers Reports where they panned a Porsche 911 because it didn't hold enough grocery bags I realized they don't serve any enthusiast group very well.



Thanks for the reply, but, who said anything about consumer reports?


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Post number 9 in this thread.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

JoeESP9 said:


> Post number 9 in this thread.



How do you feel about the entry level cd players from the likes of Cambridge Audio (Azur 350c) or Music Hall (15.2)? I am also looking very hard at the Wyred4Sound MDAC, as it is basically the same as their more expensive DAC1 and DAC2, only differences are that it doesn't act as a pre-amp as well. 

I am thinking about going with the MDAC and the Music Hall 15.2 cd player. If I go this way, I will connect them via analog to my Denon avr-3312. I am just worried about the fact that my Denon avr-3312 isn't very good for 2 channel listening and that it might be the weak link in the chain of components. The MDAC is supposed to be one of the best sounding DACS in its price range. I am just wondering if I should spring for a newer 2 channel pre-amp or integrated amp with a home theater bypass, to get the best possible performance out of my 2 channel setup. Right now I have my 2 channel setup going off the zone 2 of my Denon avr-3312.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

It's been my experience that AV receivers don't sound as good as a dedicated two channel pre/power amp or integrated when in two channel mode. Although those that have a direct two channel mode IMO sound better than those that don't, they still come of second best in a direct comparison with dedicated two channel gear.

For CD players my inclination is to buy a competent player and a "good" (or better) DAC. I think you get the best bang for the buck by doing so.


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## Jetjones (Jan 29, 2012)

JoeESP9 said:


> It's been my experience that AV receivers don't sound as good as a dedicated two channel pre/power amp or integrated when in two channel mode. Although those that have a direct two channel mode IMO sound better than those that don't, they still come of second best in a direct comparison with dedicated two channel gear.
> 
> For CD players my inclination is to buy a competent player and a "good" (or better) DAC. I think you get the best bang for the buck by doing so.



Do you have any recommendations for a possible DAC? I have recently purchased a Sony BDP-S590 bluray player for my home theater setup, I figure that it can serve double duty as a transport for my 2 channel setup as well. 

As far as DACs go, I am seriously looking at getting the W4S mdac as it is pretty much identical to their DAC1 as far as the internals go, it just has some fewer features.


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## DeltaDube (Jul 10, 2013)

Jetjones said:


> Do you have any recommendations for a possible DAC? I have recently purchased a Sony BDP-S590 bluray player for my home theater setup, I figure that it can serve double duty as a transport for my 2 channel setup as well.
> 
> As far as DACs go, I am seriously looking at getting the W4S mdac as it is pretty much identical to their DAC1 as far as the internals go, it just has some fewer features.


Emotiva just brought out there new DAC dc1 .. the reviews on the emo forums are extremely good..
it using the ad1955 chip still but its used mono 1 for each side.. so its differential i guess ..

they are also bringing out a new cd player erc 3 soon.. hope it has the differential chip set up... 
as for pre amp

xsp 1 i just got mine last week took my system to another level awesome sound... im running xlrs
into the xpa1 mono blocks so im fully balanced from the dac chips in the cd to the speakers.. 
cant beat this setup with an avr... again xps 1 is awesome..

cheers


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