# Bad Ebay Selling Experience: please advise



## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

Hi: this is directed to experienced ebay sellers. I listed a Yamaha 3030 receiver in perfect condition. When i had it, i was using separate amps for the front channels. In the menu (i believe its "amp assign") you can configure what amps you want to be active on the receiver, so i disabled the receiver's front amps in the menu. The buyer said the front amps didn't work and he wanted a refund. I made some suggestions, including going into the menus and changing the configuration (he also could have done a master reset, or talked to tech support), and even offered to help him out on the phone. Next thing I received was a return request from ebay, no response that he had attempted any of my suggestions. I unwisely agreed to the return, only to find the front panel door has been damaged when i opened the box.
Also, i have learned that if you don't have the full amount in your paypal account (with the fees taken out i don't) they can take the refund directly from your bank account. 
My question: what's the best way to proceed? I did contact the buyer to ask if he insured the unit, but haven't heard back yet. Was trying to be honest and forthcoming, but i'm fairly certain i'm going to get burned in this deal.
Should i notify ebay or paypal? I've heard that they will usually side with the buyer, but do i have any good options? This might be my last ebay sale, but i'd welcome any comments, suggestions. Thanks in advance.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

I have an update: the buyer apparently has not been getting any of my emails. When I googled this problem, there were lots of hits. Anyone else experience this? Is ebay still getting them or are they lost in cyberspace?


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

I don't know if ebay or paypal covers shipping damage.
I am unaware of email problems. How do you know the buyer is not getting your emails?

I don't sell a lot on ebay but when I do I do not take returns. If its a high value item I only ship insured.

It is important when selling items you clearly stipulate the rules to your sale.

Such as, "Returns only accepted if in original condition"
"All Returns must be shipped insured for value at buyers cost"
Anyway you get the idea.

Even if you list an item as no returns accepted, if something occurs which you in good faith as a seller wish to take responsibility for you can still always accept the return, or provide refund.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Ebay typically favors buyers in disputes, but as long as you did all your correspondence through ebay they’ll have a record of it, and will be able to see you were forthright and reasonable. It’s possible the receiver was damaged in shipment. If you posted pictures of the receiver on your auction that show no front-plate damage, you should be able to successfully register a complaint against him.

A few years ago I had a receiver I bought that was damaged on delivery, IMO because it wasn’t packaged properly (e.g. double-boxed). I filed for a return (but didn’t register any accusations at the seller) and got a refund. A month or two later I corresponded with the seller and was surprised to learn that ebay had also paid him in full for the damaged receiver! So it does appear they have some kind of insurance in place for situations like yours (and mine).

Regards,
Wayne


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

phillihp23 said:


> I don't know if ebay or paypal covers shipping damage. I am unaware of email problems. How do you know the buyer is not getting your emails? I don't sell a lot on ebay but when I do I do not take returns. If its a high value item I only ship insured. It is important when selling items you clearly stipulate the rules to your sale. Such as, "Returns only accepted if in original condition" "All Returns must be shipped insured for value at buyers cost" Anyway you get the idea. Even if you list an item as no returns accepted, if something occurs which you in good faith as a seller wish to take responsibility for you can still always accept the return, or provide refund.


Thanks for the response. I can receive the buyers' email, but he's unable to receive mine. I've done selling in the past on eBay and never had this problem, but if you Google it, you'll see it is pretty common. I assumed he was getting my email offering assistance, but apparently this was not the case. As long as ebay has a record of what I sent him, I should come out ok. I was trying to be accommodating, and should not have accepted the return. But what's done is done. Thanks again for your thoughts.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

phillihp23 said:


> I don't know if ebay or paypal covers shipping damage. I am unaware of email problems. How do you know the buyer is not getting your emails? I don't sell a lot on ebay but when I do I do not take returns. If its a high value item I only ship insured. It is important when selling items you clearly stipulate the rules to your sale. Such as, "Returns only accepted if in original condition" "All Returns must be shipped insured for value at buyers cost" Anyway you get the idea. Even if you list an item as no returns accepted, if something occurs which you in good faith as a seller wish to take responsibility for you can still always accept the return, or provide refund.


Thanks, Wayne for your thoughts. It was packaged properly, double boxed, and the buyer packed it just as I did. I did notice that the styrofoam inside was badly shredded, so it looks like it was dropped (possibly multiple times.) At any rate, I hope ebay has my correspondence to him at least, and I'm hoping for a fair outcome. I will keep you posted. Thanks again.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

vidiot33 said:


> Thanks, Wayne for your thoughts. It was packaged properly, double boxed, and the buyer packed it just as I did. I did notice that the styrofoam inside was badly shredded, so it looks like it was dropped (possibly multiple times.) At any rate, I hope ebay has my correspondence to him at least, and I'm hoping for a fair outcome. I will keep you posted. Thanks again.


When i sell something on eBay... I always take it to UPS and have them pack it up so if there is a problem UPS pays for it. My last item I sold was destroyed upon opening it, and I refunded the money immediately to the buyer and notified UPS of the problem. UPS picked up the item from him and refunded me completely within a week including shipping, and packing charges too. I did it this way because years ago I purchased a complete set of Paradigm speakers and 2 of the speakers got destroyed. I was refunded immediately the purchase price for the destroyed items by the seller, but he had to hire a lawyer to go after UPS.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> When i sell something on eBay... I always take it to UPS and have them pack it up so if there is a problem UPS pays for it. My last item I sold was destroyed upon opening it, and I refunded the money immediately to the buyer and notified UPS of the problem. UPS picked up the item from him and refunded me completely within a week including shipping, and packing charges too. I did it this way because years ago I purchased a complete set of Paradigm speakers and 2 of the speakers got destroyed. I was refunded immediately the purchase price for the destroyed items by the seller, but he had to hire a lawyer to go after UPS.


That is useful information, thanks. I did send it UPS and had no issues, but he sent it back to me via USPS. They made one delivery attempt and then stored it at the post office about 20 mins away from me. When I picked it up, the postal worker was rather rude. I know there can also 
be problems at UPS, but I'm giving all my shopping business to UPS from now on. I will keep you posted on developments as they occur. All of us who turn gear over should have some interest.


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## dan711 (Nov 10, 2009)

Ebay caters to the buyer more than ever; basically the buyer can do no wrong nowadays. As a seller, one has to dot the I's, cross the T's, cross their fingers and hope the buyer is legitimate and competent.

I worked for one of the large shipping companies many years ago and have a good friend that works in management for them currently. Unfortunately, the primary thing they are worried about is time; not the condition in which the package arrives in.

I still sell on Ebay but worry each time I do.

p.s. Take and document plenty of pictures and communicate during the entire process with the buyer. This has worked well for me over the years.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

dan711 said:


> Ebay caters to the buyer more than ever; basically the buyer can do no wrong nowadays. As a seller, one has to dot the I's, cross the T's, cross their fingers and hope the buyer is legitimate and competent. I worked for one of the large shipping companies many years ago and have a good friend that works in management for them currently. Unfortunately, the primary thing they are worried about is time; not the condition in which the package arrives in. I still sell on Ebay but worry each time I do. p.s. Take and document plenty of pictures and communicate during the entire process with the buyer. This has worked well for me over the years.


Thanks for the input. In this case though, I thought I was communicating with the buyer and he wasn't getting any of them. I will be careful. How would you compare ebay to audiogon?


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## dan711 (Nov 10, 2009)

vidiot33 said:


> Thanks for the input. In this case though, I thought I was communicating with the buyer and he wasn't getting any of them. I will be careful. How would you compare ebay to audiogon?


Your messages not getting through is odd.

I use Audiogon mostly when selling audio equipment instead of Ebay. Ebay can be a quicker mode of selling more often than Audiogon in my experience. However, it just depends on the item for sale. Example: I just sold a Rotel amp on Audiogon that only took 2 days.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

Appreciate the input, thanks


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

An update on this situation: I found that if I contacted the buyer directly from ebay, he would receive the messages, but not from my gmail account. Since we've been able to re-establish contact, he is willing for me to return the unit to him and continue the transaction. Hopefully, others can learn from this experience. Merry Christmas to all!


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

One more question: since ebay is involved, do we need to wait for them to "rule" before we proceed with this?


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

One more question: since Ebay is investigating this, do we need to wait for them to "rule " before we proceed?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

vidiot33 said:


> One more question: since ebay is involved, do we need to wait for them to "rule" before we proceed with this?


If you reach an acceptable agreement with the buyer... I think you can just proceed with the deal and let eBay know.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> If you reach an acceptable agreement with the buyer... I think you can just proceed with the deal and let eBay know.


Thanks, I'd like to resolve this as quickly as possible and Ebay's 48 hr window is on day 4.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

vidiot33 said:


> Thanks, I'd like to resolve this as quickly as possible and Ebay's 48 hr window is on day 4.


You can also get eBay on the phone or chat (AIR)... It took some digging, but I found their contact phone number a while back (don't know what I did with it though).


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> You can also get eBay on the phone or chat (AIR)... It took some digging, but I found their contact phone number a while back (don't know what I did with it though).


Thanks!


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

vidiot33 said:


> An update on this situation: I found that if I contacted the buyer directly from ebay, he would receive the messages, but not from my gmail account. Since we've been able to re-establish contact, he is willing for me to return the unit to him and continue the transaction. Hopefully, others can learn from this experience. Merry Christmas to all!


"All" ebay communications and activities are required to be conducted through the ebay interface, not outside communications and transaction activity. Its ebay policy.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

phillihp23 said:


> "All" ebay communications and activities are required to be conducted through the ebay interface, not outside communications and transaction activity. Its ebay policy.


I believe you misunderstood. They were all official ebay generated emails. The buyer was not getting them when I would respond from the gmail account that linked with ebay. He's only getting them when i go directly to the ebay site. But thanks for the contribution.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I hope this is ultimately resolved to both parties satisfaction.
I also hope if you ever decide to sell anything else that has user adjustable setting you do a factory preset and verify it is actually working correctly before you list and sell another "in perfect condition" item.
Had you done the factory reset chances are buyer and seller would be sitting pretty right now.


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## TomFord (Jul 15, 2014)

Read OP. If I'm not too late lmk. Know a bit


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