# Denon or Onkyo??



## moodyda (Sep 27, 2013)

Getting a new receiver. Which to go with. Denon x4000 or Onkyo 929 Price is the same and probably will run a B&K av 5000 series ii as the main amp. Like the features in both just cannot decide.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The. Onkyo weighs almost 20 lbs more than the 4000 so hands down its got a much better amplification section. It also has thx certification giving useful processing modes and the very best HQV video processor.


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## moodyda (Sep 27, 2013)

But does'nt the Denon have a better warranty?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I still don't buy the relationship between weight and the quality. It is true that a larger transformer and more heat sinking weigh more, but I would not necessarily assume it means a better amp. If you are using the B&K for an amp none of that matters anyway. 

My experience is usually Denon for reliability, Onkyo for value in terms of features and performance.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

lcaillo said:


> I still don't buy the relationship between weight and the quality. It is true that a larger transformer and more heat sinking weigh more, but I would not necessarily assume it means a better amp.


No disrespect but bench tests done on Onkyo receivers have over and over again since as far back as the 805 series has proven that the larger power supply does improve the output by a fair bit. But I do agree that using external power amp makes this mute.
The other features like THX processing and the HQV video processor are big advantages.
Onkyo and Denon have the same warranty.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

No disrespect taken. It is OK to have differing perspectives. Mine is that bench tests are a different matter than assuming performance based upon weight. 

Tests for specific products would carry much more "weight."


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well the Onkyo 828 one model down was tested by sound an vision and the results are here:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr828-av-receiver-test-bench
Very respectable results.


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## moodyda (Sep 27, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> No disrespect but bench tests done on Onkyo receivers have over and over again since as far back as the 805 series has proven that the larger power supply does improve the output by a fair bit. But I do agree that using external power amp makes this mute.
> The other features like THX processing and the HQV video processor are big advantages.
> Onkyo and Denon have the same warranty.


No they do not have the same warranty!! Onkyo 2yrs and Denon now 3


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Boy that's a tough decision. Both are very nice units. I do see that the Denon has Audessey Sub EQ HT which is not listed on the Onkyo product page. If that is true, it would be the thing that tipped the balance to the Denon.

Of course if I remember correctly, you wanted 3 zone capability, the Denon only gives 2 while the Onkyo gives a powered 3. Decisions, decisions.

As far as THX certification goes, I feel that Denon is just not paying for the certification. I think they would pass the benchmarks easily if they tried. Audioholics tested it though I have not read it. That would probably tell your.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree the Denon may meet thx certification but the processing modes you get with the certification are very useful. If you have used them you will understand what I mean. The 929 has sub EQ also.
Edit I did some digging and the 929 does NOT have sub EQ
If you don't have two subs this is irrelevant, plus most good subs have the ability to EQ on the amps built in just takes a little more effort.


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## jon96789 (Mar 21, 2013)

You should take into account the fact that Onkyo products have a extremly poor reliability record... Ever since 2007, every lineup has had some sort of failure. Bad HDMI boards, corrosion on the IDE connectors, corrosion on the display boards, now problems with the amplifiers.

I had two Onkyos and both failed right after the warranty expired. I would not consider Onkyo any more.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

HDMI board failures affect every brand of receiver out there. The other issues have been very few and far between considering how many receivers Onkyo sells compared to other manufacturers. I'm still using my 805 with never one issue and it was said to burst into flames Lol
Onkyo is no more or no less reliable than most other brands.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> HDMI board failures affect every brand of receiver out there. The other issues have been very few and far between considering how many receivers Onkyo sells compared to other manufacturers. I'm still using my 805 with never one issue and it was said to burst into flames Lol
> Onkyo is no more or no less reliable than most other brands.


+1 - I have had 2 Onkyos and have not had an issue with them. I also have a Denon that I had to send back due to a board failure after 1 week. Every brand is going to have some bad units - it is just the nature of the beast. 

In deciding between a Denon and an Onkyo, for me it comes down to one thing - do you want airplay? If not, I would opt for the Onkyo as they tend to have a better amplification stage...


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## D Bone (Feb 23, 2012)

I only know what I know, which is my one and only Onkyo product ever, a 709, lasted only 14 months before it ate its HDMI board for breakfast. It took 47 days to get fixed and I sold it on eBay for $400. I have owned many brands of AVRs and that was my first ever failure. I replaced the 709 with my first Denon product, an X2000, and I guess only time will tell, but Denon's 3yr warranty makes me feel much better about owning it.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I have had issues with almost every AVR I've ever owned except my Denon and, believe it or not, my Kenwood. I would recommend Denon over Onkyo especially since the amp section does not matter to you so unless you really like the additional DSP modes provided by a THX Certiifed unit or really need the 3rd zone...


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> The. Onkyo weighs almost 20 lbs more than the 4000 so hands down its got a much better amplification section. It also has thx certification giving useful processing modes and the very best HQV video processor.


Being concerned about weight was popular about 20 years ago. I even remember some manufacturers were installing steel plates in their higher end CD players to increase their weight. It wasn't indicative of much 20 years ago and still isn't. My lightest amplifier is also my most powerful. The plate amp in my subwoofer is 500 watts RMS and only weighs a very few pounds. As a class D type amp it doesn't even have heat sinks and I leave it turned on 24/7.

Almost every AV receiver meets THX specs but few manufacturers pay for the certification any longer because models change so frequently and adding cost to a unit makes life difficult in the very competitive AVR marketplace. THX certification is not an indicator of quality and has far less meaning than it did 10 or 15 years ago..

For the OP. I have no experience with AVR's from either company. All I can tell you about what I have read is that Onkyo appears to have many more quality and reliability problems. That could be because they sell more units. I don't know. But it would be a red flag for me. Since performance will be about the same with any brand, I would go with something that doesn't have red flags. So given your two choices, Denon would be my choice.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

fmw said:


> Being concerned about weight was popular about 20 years ago. I even remember some manufacturers were installing steel plates in their higher end CD players to increase their weight. It wasn't indicative of much 20 years ago and still isn't. My lightest amplifier is also my most powerful. The plate amp in my subwoofer is 500 watts RMS and only weighs a very few pounds. As a class D type amp it doesn't even have heat sinks and I leave it turned on 24/7.


We are not talking about class D amps both receivers have A/B switching amps in them and the size of the power supply does make a huge difference and that accounts for the extra weight.




> Almost every AV receiver meets THX specs but few manufacturers pay for the certification any longer because models change so frequently and adding cost to a unit makes life difficult in the very competitive AVR marketplace. THX certification is not an indicator of quality and has far less meaning than it did 10 or 15 years ago.


Not if you look at many bench tests that are conducted regularly. Many of those receivers would not met THX specifications.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> We are not talking about class D amps both receivers have A/B switching amps in them and the size of the power supply does make a huge difference and that accounts for the extra weight.
> 
> 
> 
> Not if you look at many bench tests that are conducted regularly. Many of those receivers would not met THX specifications.


You missed the point. I only brought up the sub amp to provide a personal example of power and weight not always relating to each other. You need to remove the word "huge" in front of difference in your post. In an AV receiver (not necessarily in all amplifiers) the power supplies are adequate to handle maximum rated output power, whatever that might be. Putting in a heavier transformer won't make it "more adequate" to handle maximum rated output power. It might make a slight difference in some circumstances but not much and not often.

Tell me about which AVR's over $500 don't meet THX specs. I'm sure there are some but I'm not aware of them offhand.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I dont have time to dig around for the specifications on every receiver out there but im not the only one here who agrees with what I say. There is a reason why many people end up buying external amps to power some or all the channels on a receiver. 
A great example is this review and bench test of the Onkyo 805 from secrets done several years ago.
THX certification is not only about the actual output but with it you get very useful processing modes. Some of them I use exclusively when watching movies.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

OK, I'll leave you to your beliefs. Take care.


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## jamfan76 (Mar 16, 2011)

jon96789 said:


> You should take into account the fact that Onkyo products have a extremly poor reliability record...


My TX-SR606 is still going strong :banana:




moodyda said:


> Getting a new receiver. Which to go with. Denon x4000 or Onkyo 929


Been looking into upgrading my receiver, and these are two models that I have been comparing... They both offer Audyssey MultEQ XT32, but only the Denon offers Audyssey Sub EQ HT... The one other feature that I'd like, would be built-in HD Radio, which the Denon offers... Onkyo only offers on hi end recievers...

I'm leaning towards the Denon, I think the deal breaker for me is the MultEQ XT32 & Sub EQ HT!!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

jamfan76 said:


> I think the deal breaker for me is the MultEQ XT32 & Sub EQ HT!!


Just remember that Sub EQ is only useful if you have two subs otherwise it makes no difference at all.


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## jamfan76 (Mar 16, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Just remember that Sub EQ is only useful if you have two subs otherwise it makes no difference at all.


Planning on adding a twin to my psa xv15, but would like to upgrade reciever 1st... Really need a new reciever so i can plug my external hard drives in to listen to my music...


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

jamfan76 said:


> My TX-SR606 is still going strong :banana:
> Been looking into upgrading my receiver, and these are two models that I have been comparing... They both offer Audyssey MultEQ XT32, but only the Denon offers Audyssey Sub EQ HT... The one other feature that I'd like, would be built-in HD Radio, which the Denon offers... Onkyo only offers on hi end recievers...
> 
> I'm leaning towards the Denon, I think the deal breaker for me is the MultEQ XT32 & Sub EQ HT!!


I hesitate to jump in here when there are Big Dogs Barking, but my experience is this: I had 4 Onkyo receivers since 2000, all ran hot enough to fry eggs, all failed, and I recently installed a Denon AVR-X4000 with which I could not be much happier. Granted, the very frequent reports of Onkyo failure may be due to the volume they sell, but I am superstitious, and have two subs.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

My choice of AVR brands would be :
1) Pioneer / Denon 
2) Marantz / Yamaha
3) Onkyo / Sherwood / Harmon Karden / Sony
4) Any of the boutique brands.

Everyone has their preferences.
I have seen the claim that Onkyo sells more before but it has never been substantiated nor have I been able to find sales figures for any AVR.
If I were guessing which brand sells the most units it would be Sony.

Things may have changed in three years but at that time Onkyo did indeed get significantly hotter than any of the other brands just sitting at idle on the showroom floor. Hot enough that it was very uncomfortable to touch with the palm of your hand.

I am not really a fan of it, but if you only want the AVR as a processor Marantz has a new unit without the amplifier section.
Onkyo may also have a stand alone processor.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Just remember that Sub EQ is only useful if you have two subs otherwise it makes no difference at all.


You see no advantage in equalizing a single subwoofer? The industry does.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Multi EQ XT 32 does that already. Sub EQ allows for a second independent sub to be added and EQ independent of the first sub.


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## Cisco Kid (Nov 21, 2013)

love all the info as I am struggling between the 818 and a refurbed Denon x4000 now, going over budget the 818 staying under budget and being new with 2 yrs , the Denon refurbed w 1 yr extended to 2 via my cc.

I have a pair of emp tek es1010is and the nudge is getting SUBEQ to independently set them as they will be at different distances to the MLP. To date my current TX-SR605 has been a rock without issue for 5 yrs

Which one!!!


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