# REW versus MultEQ XT32 pro



## DisTreSs (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi all,

I've got a feeling this is going to be one of my longer posts so please bare with me... 
My situation is as follows:
some time ago I built a massive 18" sub thx to the great help I got on the forum here. My intention was to place it in a dedicated HT room in our new house, but due to circumstances beyond my control, that hasn't happened yet.
Instead, I now find myself temporarily in a teeny HT room (roughly 5m x 3m if memory serves) where my sub (and B&W 803 frontstage) is way overspecced to say the least 

The problem now is that I'm having a dreadful time trying to get the acoustics right and without much room to use basstraps for example, I'm stuck with resorting to EQ-ing I would think.
Since I will be stuck with my HT in this room for at least another year (probably 2), I thought it would be worth spending some time trying to improve the situation somewhat. Not looking for perfection, but still...

Because of all this, I was looking into finally upgrading my receiver to the new Denon 4311 with MultEQ XT32.
Since I'm currently still running my trusty Denon 3801 (not even one HDMI port! Just to show you guys how old it is ), I thought it would be time to upgrade anyway.

So now I find myself faced with 2 basic questions and, depending on the answer, probably a boatload of follow-up questions! 

- First: do I simply trust that what MultEQ XT32 will do for my room will be enough to satisfy me and straighten out the worst kinks? Do I resign myself to the fact that I won't be able to view in a graph what the system actually did? I mean, I have no idea how those systems react on huge nulls for instance, so it would be nice to see if there is still a big problem after calibration...
And on top of that, do I also resign myself to the fact that I will not be able to set a target curve to my liking?

- Secondly: if the answer to the previous is negative, do I simply order the pro kit so I can have more control over the process, or do I decide to give REW (& accompanying HW) a shot?

The second option is of course the option that raises the most questions.
To start off:
- Has anyone been able to make/view real-life graphs obtained from the only presently available XT32 equipped receivers (onkyo 3008 and 5008 with new FW of course)? Since neither 3008 or 5008 are installer-ready, measuring the result with REW would be the most viable option to see what MultEQ XT32 actually did...
- cost-wise, wouldn't the QSC DSP-30/Crown USM 810/DSP1124P/FBQ2496/DEQ2496, USB soundcard and ECM8000 mic approach the same price as the Audyssey pro kit option?
- effort-wise, wouldn't the Audyssey pro kit option be the faster/easier option for a n00b such as myself?
- Would REW offer the same multi-measurementpoint filter determination as is the case for Audyssey or is it limited to one measuring point?
- Does the EQ hardware needed for REW offer the same resolution as do the built-in Audyssey XT32 filters?
- In fact, on writing this, I just became aware that I'm not even clear on whether REW is only used for subwoofer calibration or full spectrum calibration? 

So there, not sooo incredibly long after all 
But I'm sure there will be plenty more to follow depending on where this goes 
Thx in advance for your replies!!


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> Do I resign myself to the fact that I won't be able to view in a graph what the system actually did?


No. REW can show you graphs before and after Audyssey.




> And on top of that, do I also resign myself to the fact that I will not be able to set a target curve to my liking?


That is correct, unless Audyssey offers that option.




> In fact, on writing this, I just became aware that I'm not even clear on whether REW is only used for subwoofer calibration or full spectrum calibration?


 REW can provide good subwoofer graphs using nothing more than a USB sound card and a Radio Shack SLM. Accurate full range measurements will require (in addition to the above) a calibrated mic and a pre-amp w/ phantom power. A so-called audio interface is a great option for full range measurement, providing USB, mic pre-amp and phantom power in a single package.

Regarding your Audyssey-specific questions, you’d do better asking them at Audyssey’s Forum. I can answer this one though:



> effort-wise, wouldn't the Audyssey pro kit option be the faster/easier option for a n00b such as myself?


Any auto-EQ scheme the faster and easier than measuring and adjusting hardware manually.

Regards,
Wayne


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

As Wayne wrote, REW can be used to measure and compare the room response before and after Audyssey, and to measure the preamp outputs directly to see what changes Audyssey is making. In the Home Theater Receivers | Processors | Amps forum, there is a thread of Audyssey graphs (but no MultEQ XT 32 graph yet) and a second thread of Audyssey specific discussion. 

Bill


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## DisTreSs (Sep 27, 2008)

Hi guys, thx for the replies.

I just read over at AVS that the Denon 4311 appears to have the possibility to view the MultEQ XT32 curves to see what changes Audyssey made. It would even appear to have a 'manual' mode, which to me looks like the possibility to edit the curve to your liking... a sort of target curve...

That would be great as this gives me the opportunity to check what is left of the acoustical nightmare that is this room in graph form after Audyssey calibration, after which I will be able to decide if I still need REW or Audyssey pro to try to improve further on the situation.

Hey, it might even be possible to get it closer to what I want through the manual mode (if it is what I think it is) without having to spend additional ca$h on a pro kit or REW HW


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

DisTreSs said:


> Hi guys, thx for the replies.
> 
> I just read over at AVS that the Denon 4311 appears to have the possibility to view the MultEQ XT32 curves to see what changes Audyssey made. It would even appear to have a 'manual' mode, which to me looks like the possibility to edit the curve to your liking... a sort of target curve...


AFAIK, any "manual mode" is really a PEQ and defeats Audyssey. In other words, Audyssey is not tweakable unless you commit to the Pro system. Also, note that the curves that Audyssey shows you, with XT or Pro, are highly smoothed and you need REW or similar to see what is really going on.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

It is critical in a small room to tweak the locations of your sub and even speakers to get the best overall response. Then go about applying eq.

That being said they need not be mutually exclusive either. Treatment or not EQ does improve performance when used properly.


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## DisTreSs (Sep 27, 2008)

Kal Rubinson said:


> AFAIK, any "manual mode" is really a PEQ and defeats Audyssey. In other words, Audyssey is not tweakable unless you commit to the Pro system. Also, note that the curves that Audyssey shows you, with XT or Pro, are highly smoothed and you need REW or similar to see what is really going on.


You appear to be spot on Kal. It would seem the owner in question was not used to the way Denon implements this (coming from an Onkyo) and mistook this manual mode as being part of Audyssey. I myself then jumped the gun purely by wishful thinking 

I did get to see some graphs from what MultEQ XT32 did for him in that thread, but since it is displayed as a block curve, I would be better off opting for additional REW measurement. I do think it will give me an initial indication though as to how bad the situation really is.


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## DisTreSs (Sep 27, 2008)

lsiberian said:


> It is critical in a small room to tweak the locations of your sub and even speakers to get the best overall response. Then go about applying eq.
> 
> That being said they need not be mutually exclusive either. Treatment or not EQ does improve performance when used properly.


The problem with small rooms and speaker placement is also that you tend to be fairly limited in you speaker/subwoofer placement... 
My main speakers (which used to have decent bottom extension by themselves), are corner loaded in this room with only a little possibility to move them forwards or backwards in the room. Not that being corner loaded by itself should pose a problem with regards to bass, on the contrary even as this usually reenforces bass (from my basic knowledge on the subject) and in my previous install in a much bigger room they were as well and performed admirably, but in this small room it creates a gap mainly between 50 and 80Hz.
I can not get them away from the wall so I'm stuck with them the way it is...

I have some movement possibilities in the back of the room where my sub is, but I'm not looking forward to lugging this behemoth around on my carpetting 
I will try to do it anyway this weekend just to see what that changes.

I just hope that the problem isn't so big that even by EQ-ing I would run into some limits.


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