# RSL Speakers 5.1 Theater System Discussion Thread



## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

*RSL Speakers 5.1 Theater System Review Discussion Thread*










*For the full review Click Here*​
*Conclusion*
dictionary.com defines "integrated" as _'combining or coordinating separate elements so as to provide a harmonious, interrelated whole'_, and that pretty much sums up the RSL Speakers 5.1 Theater System perfectly. The entire speaker package has been coalesced to near perfection, from the appearance to it's sound everything blends harmoniously. This is a home theater package for the discerning individual, the person who wants everything to look and act as one cohesive unit; it's a well integrated set of speakers and a subwoofer that make an excellent home theater setup for small to mid-sized rooms. RSL Speakers should be commended for their achievement, because they executed brilliantly.

Please feel free to discuss below.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

That is an amazingly detailed review Jim - thanks very much! :T

Are those offered in different finishes?


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

ALMFamily said:


> That is an amazingly detailed review Jim - thanks very much! :T
> 
> Are those offered in different finishes?


Thanks. This one did take me longer then normal. Guess I'm slowing down in my old age... lddude:

The RSL speakers are only available in gloss black. I'm not sure if they're planning anything else, but perhaps Howard will chime in.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yep... excellent job!


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## tfontana625 (Jan 15, 2009)

I've actually started considering these speakers now. I'm debating between these or for around the same price, the psb image line of speakers (C4, B5's, and B4's), with an SVS SB12 sub. I've heard the PSB's and was very impressed. My impression is that with the PSB's I could actually set the sub to cross over lower then these even with the B4's, and the SVS may give a little more umph. However from the reviews it sounds like these RSL's may have more clarity and detail and perhaps a little more brightness in the highs. Any thoughts beyond that? I wish I could here them side by side but, unfortunately I don't have a man cave to audition multiple system at once and compare, so I have to go by what I read.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Unfortunately I haven't had the opportunity to hear the PSB's, so I can't really comment on them. From what I've read they seem to be well liked though.

The SB12-NSD can actually be crossed over very high, so the 100Hz recommended for the RSL's will be no problem for it. Regardless of which speakers you use - and/or where you cross them over - the SB12 will have the same ability, so there's really no additional "umph" to be had.

The RSL's do offer that unique in home trial, where they pay shipping both ways. That means you can try them in your own environment for a few weeks without having to worry about paying return shipping if you ultimately decide they aren't for you.

How big is the room you're going to use them in, and what type of electronics do you have? Those two items are going to be critical when deciding what type of speakers will work best.


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## tfontana625 (Jan 15, 2009)

The room is an 11 x 22 x 8 with two double door openings on each end. The receiver is a Onkyo TX-NR818.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

tfontana625 said:


> The room is an 11 x 22 x 8 with two double door openings on each end. The receiver is a Onkyo TX-NR818.


That's a decent sized room. If you go with the RSL speakers I'd suggest CG24's at all positions, not just the center. If you end up getting PSB's instead you should avoid the B4's and B5's, because I don't think they're powerful enough to fill out that much space.


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## rslspeakers (Dec 13, 2012)

I want to thank Jim for his review of the RSL 5.1 Home Theater System. Jim put a lot of time and effort into the review, certainly as much as any magazine reviewer has with our product. Jim has been a pleasure to work with.

We’re thrilled that Jim liked our system. By the way, we packed this system the way we normally pack it for everyone. We were horrified last year by videos of the delivery guy throwing TVs over a fence! Let him try to do that with our 70 lb. Speedwoofer 10. In a few places of the review, Jim has indicated that he would have liked to have seen additional low bass output from our Speedwoofer 10. I would like to add a few comments about this.

In the past, I’ve had issues with most of the subwoofers I’ve heard. I value accuracy and detail. If the bass is sloppy, I’m not interested. When I listen to music, I want to hear the skin of a kick-drum and feel the impact. I don’t want to just hear a dull boom and feel the floor shaking.

The first Speedwoofer was for my own home theater in my previous house (I really miss that theater. If you want to see what it looked like just Google “retro sci-fi home theater”). The subwoofer cabinet was about 4 feet tall and contained 2 10” woofers in a double Compression Guide configuration. This monster had a lot of usable output to 15 Hz. and below. Yet, there was no loss in detail and precision. So, we know the concept will work for larger subwoofers.

When we designed our 5.1 system, which is technically a compact system, we needed to determine the optimum size for our subwoofer. To us, there are 3 markets. First, is the audiophile whose highest priority is accuracy. Second, is the hard core bass junky whose measure of a good subwoofer is how high it can register on the Richter scale and scare the out of anybody in an adjacent room, house, or shopping mall. Kind of reminds me of a story. In 1969 I went over to Gene Czerwinski’s office. Gene was the founder of Cerwin-Vega. At the time he was building giant horn subwoofers that he used for sound reinforcement at concerts. These 8 foot tall speakers had 18” woofers that he hand built. The magnet alone (not the structures) were something like 12-15 pounds. I remember him playing them at probably the loudest volume I’ve ever experienced. My pant cuffs were flapping, my ears actually began to distort and you could literally see the walls shaking. It was a frightening experience.

But I digress. Anyhow, the third market is those who want a great sounding home theater but have to consider the aesthetics and what others in their families will accept. We determined that it would be impossible to target all 3 markets with our first subwoofer. So we decided on the first and third markets for our Speedwoofer 10.

The current Speedwoofer 10 has been very successful in targeting both markets.

We’ve been told by some of our audiophile customers that there could not be a better match for their ribbon or electrostatic speakers even if they tried to do it on eHarmoney.com. The vast majority are of our home theater customers are thrilled with the Speedwoofer’s low frequency output. We rarely get returns under our satisfaction guarantee. People tell us they can’t turn it up too high. At the T.H.E. show, we had a home theater setup with a single Speedwoofer 10. People told us that they were way up the hallway and had to poke their head in to find out where all the bass was coming from. Some of the other people demonstrating nearby weren’t too happy with us. I have a 5.1 system in my den with a single Speedwoofer 10. Sometimes I’ll watch a movie and my wife may not be interested and will retreat to the bedroom above the den. You can ask her if she thinks we need more bass output, but you might get smacked.

As a matter of fact, we’ve had many customers ask us if they should use 2 Speedwoofer 10s instead of one. While we don’t mind selling extra subwoofers, we tell them to start with one, because it’s probably more than enough. And they can always add the second one later. Ultimately, even though we don’t get to sell a second subwoofer, we get a lot of complements and glowing reviews. So, we feel our Speedwoofer 10 has enough low end output to more than please the vast majority of home theater enthusiasts. However, we can understand different people’s priorities. Home Theater is not a necessity. It is for enjoyment. And although I hate the expression; “it’s whatever floats your boat.”

When we designed our Speedwoofer 10, we could have made it far less expensive by using the same type of parts that many others use (vinyl cabinets, cheap class D amplifiers, and smaller magnet woofers, etc). However, we constantly get correspondence from RSL customers who are still enjoying their RSL Speakers after 40 years and complement us on how well they are built. We couldn’t let them down. Besides, after a lengthy absence people would be watching to see if our new models had the same type of quality as before or if we compromised. We’ve always believed in using the finest parts and weren’t about to change now. Plus, we don’t like getting nasty emails.

So, yeah, It’s more expensive than some other subwoofers however, it shouldn’t be compared to subwoofers have size instead of precision and finesse.

If you’re in the second market we described above, we reserve the right to target you in the future with additional models. Jim suggested a Speedwoofer 12. Who knows?

Lastly, I want to say how appreciative I am for the forums and the people who participate in them (with possibly a few exceptions: you know who you are). In the old days (last century) when we had retail stores, the only way to vent our opinions was in an ad in the local newspaper or a direct mail campaign to our customers. Either way was prohibitively expensive. These forums are a great way to express ideas and to acquire knowledge.

Howard
RSL Speakers


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## cavchameleon (Jan 7, 2008)

Excellent review! I have seen these in various magazine ads. I've always wondered what they are like. They look built well and seem to use well built drivers, all for an excellent price. They must be very confident in their product to have return shipping included. Thanks for the review!


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

You're welcome. I'm glad you found it helpful.


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

theJman said:


> That's a decent sized room. If you go with the RSL speakers I'd suggest CG24's at all positions, not just the center. If you end up getting PSB's instead you should avoid the B4's and B5's, because I don't think they're powerful enough to fill out that much space.


Very interested in how this plays out. Based on conversations with Howard & Joe at RSL, I now have this exact receiver (purchased locally) and am awaiting my 5.1 setup with the CG4 speakers for my home theater - almost identical in dimensions to the room described here. 

Howard assured me as much as he'd live to sell me a 7.2 system with the CG24's all around that I would be happy with the 5.1 setup with the CG4's. he actually "down sold" me when I was anticipating buying more. Considering his cost on return shipping if I'm not satisfied with the results, it seems he is supremely confident in his product!

So far RSL has been great to deal with. Lots of communication "pre sale" and very helpful people overall. Looking forward to auditioning this setup with my new TX-NR818! My speakers ship tomorrow and barring massive cross border delays getting to Canada, I should have them next week - very excited!


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

After a few months with the system, I am happy to report I didn't take Howard up on the return shipping offer during the 30 day test drive. The speakers sound great. When we move to a bigger house and I get to redesign my home theater layout, I will likely upgrade to a 7.2 layout, but mostly because I plan on having a much bigger home theater than I now have. 

The only disappointment so far has been in the Onkyo receiver. It seems to run fine out of the box, but once the Audyssey is run, things go a little screwy. At low to moderate volume, everything is fine. Once cranked up at anywhere near reference levels, clipping and distortion is introduced. This is especially prevalent in the THX Cinema sound field preset. I'm stumped as the system is crossed over at 100 Hz as per RSL's recommendations. How can it run out of juice pushing satellite speakers, especially when the bass handling is offloaded to the sub like that?

Onkyo also appears stumped. It has been in to their local service shop twice - they cannot find fault. Onkyo has now requested I send the receiver in to their lab for testing in an actual theater environment versus just going on the bench for testing. Hopefully they find the problem because it is frustrating to drop this kind of coin on a setup that you can't play loudly -especially living in this "Golden Age of Comic Book Superhero Movies"!!!

So far, Onkyo is placing the blame on my 15'x20' theater with 7' ceiling height. Really regretting my investing in Onkyo so far, but at least they have now offered to look a little deeper. On the plus side, Howard at RSL has been helpful in troubleshooting everything with me and has offered to continue working with me, if that means changing receivers, adding more speakers or running more tests. 

In the review, it was noted that it was impossible to comment on RSL's support because he was working directly with Howard Rodgers. I am pleased to report having the same experience as a "regular customer" and not apparently getting some special treatment because someone is an influential reviewer...

I have a feeling this Onkyo will be on eBay by the end of summer. Clearly there is no defect; I have zero expectation that their lab testing will reveal anything more than the fact I need to buy a more powerful receiver/amp.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

I'm glad to hear everything has worked out for you with the RSL system (wish I could say that about the Onkyo too). I certainly have no reservations recommending them myself. And thank you for posting your opinion - I'm sure others will benefit from the experience of an actual customer.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Out of curiosity, what model Onkyo are you using?


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

TX-NR818 -one that I have read reviews over and over almost everywhere saying it has "gobs of power" and similar accolades. I am stumped at how it is clipping when pushing 5 sattelite speakers, crossed over at 100Hz. After speaking with RSL, Howard Rodgers is convinced the speakers can handle any (clean) power the amp can throw at it. The source is Blu-ray with HDMI cable, mostly movies. 

Problem is worse in the THX Cinema sound mode, but something is causing the left channel to need +9.5db boost to be on par with the other channels -it seems like the amp is struggling to power that channel specifically. Don't know, sending it in to Onkyo's lab tomorrow. I'm not holding my breath at a response other than "the lab says it is ok" -hopefully they actually hook it up in a test theater, run Audyssey and see how it goes. (and hopefully it doesn't act like the intermittent vehicle problem that never seems to show up when you get your car in to the mechanic's shop!)


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

UPDATE: spoke with Onkyo yesterday. After about 6 weeks without my 818, they confirmed they can find nothing wrong with the receiver. The 818 is now discontinued so they have offered to replace it with a model from their current line up - the TX-NR929 (the new 828 actually dropped down in power and dropped down one tier in Audyssey software compared to the 818, so the 929 is the most-direct replacement model. 

I should have it in about 2 weeks. Haven't seen great reviews for the new units, but based on the specs online the 929 appears to compare with the 3010. Am very nervous about potentially having the same problem with the 929 so was considering paying a local shop to upgrade me to the 3010. If price wasn't the issue, what would you do? The new TX-NR929 or a slightly more-dated TX-NR3010???

90+% used for home theater - LOUD - and mostly action movies (Iron Man, Avengers, Wolverine, that kind of stuff) with the RSL 5.1 speaker system.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

You seem leery of the models Onkyo is offer. Is there a different one you're more comfortable with? Perhaps you can ask for that instead, even if there's a slight upcharge.


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

I definitely AM concerned about the 929, but mostly because two tech shops could NOT find anything wrong with my 818 - it was performing to spec, so am worried the new model will also "perform to spec" and just repeat the same clipping issue.... 

The 929 is brand new; so far have only seen one review of its lesser sister, the TX-NR828 (http://www.hometheater.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr828-av-receiver) and it was less than compelling. I asked Onkyo about paying the difference to upgrade but they said they couldn't. I do have the opportunity to upgrade locally by exchanging the "new in box" 929 at a local store. 

Was thinking about the 3010, but I guess if I'm upgrading at a shop, I could go with another brand - the only options in this tier of product at this location would be:

Onkyo TX-NR1010 (+$700)
Cambridge Audio Azur 651A (+$800)
Onkyo TX-NR3010 (+$1300)

and the TX-NR5010, but I'm not forking out that much. 

I really don't know much about the Cambridge unit. Sounds like it has gobs of power, probably more than anything else on this list, but no room correction. I know what a difference Audyssey made with my 818, so that does concern me a bit....

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Since it appears that you're considering non-Onkyo options now you might want to check out Sherbourn. They are definitely on the high side of the mid-level in electronics. Sherbourn was recently purchased by Emotiva, so they're selling current stock for very low prices. Could be a good chance to get a killer deal.


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

I'll check out any options. Guess my original thought was to stay with Onkyo, but decide whether there was enough of a gap between the 3010 and 929 to warrant dropping the extra $1300 to upgrade. 

Based on specs alone, the answer appears to be no. But I'd be surprised if Onkyo had two very similar units priced so far apart without some sort of justification - although the 929 and 3010 are not from the same model year, so I guess it's possible. Really don't know, maybe it's a question for the dealer. -although there's only one person in that shop that has a clue. Last time I was there, some kid tried selling me speakers based purely on their wattage ratings. That's why I turned here, for more enlightened insights.

I've only seen positive feedback on the 3010 model. The 929 is just too new to research properly.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

Closure!

Well what a difference. I now have and am completely satisfied with the Onkyo TX-NR929 receiver. I was so apprehensive that I initially paid the $970 (local) cost and traded in the unopened 929 on the Yamaha RX-A3030 receiver. 

After getting accustomed to the Onkyo menus, its operation and sound field choices, it basically ruined me for the yamaha. I could deal with the extra grand in costs, but only for an upgrade. I could not see any way at all to see the top-line yamaha as an upgrade over the Onkyo 929. (I have two set top boxes that support Air Play already so that was a moot point. I already have Gigabit Ethernet hard wired to the location so the onkyo's wireless is a non-issue, but still ended up returning the yamaha under the store's satisfaction guarantee and going with the Onkyo. 

With the money I got back for the yamaha, I ordered two more of the RSL CG24 speakers to use for my L/R speakers, allowing me to move the CG4 back to surround duty, leaving me with the larger speakers across the L/C/R soundstage. I also picked up another RSL sub, the Speedwoofer 10. (These speakers together comprise their "Studio Monitor System" ($1500) found at: http://rslspeakers.com/store/rsl-studio-monitor-system-31.html) This gives me their ultimate 7.2 package, plus I have my older Polk satellite (1995 vintage and still sound great) running IIz duty at the ceiling in the front of the room, giving me a 9.2 setup and using the Onkyo to its capabilities. 

Wow. I am amazed at the breathtaking difference this has made. I love having the dual subs. This is everything I had hoped! Avengers, Kill Bill, Thor. All great. Today I'm going back to War of the Worlds to see how hard I can push those twin subs. 

A big thank you to Howard at RSL and to the head office support folks at Onkyo for their time and efforts to accommodate me troubleshooting and resolve this to my complete and total satisfaction.


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## Greenster (Mar 2, 2013)

Wow. Super nice set up.


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## ssjp55 (Mar 5, 2014)

My room is about 20' x 20' with a vaulted ceiling so the room is about 4100 cubic feet. Will these speakers be enough for a room this size? The orientation of my room prevents me from being able to use towers so I need to find some bookshelves to wall mount.


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

It may mean bumping up to a 7.1 or 7.2, but yes, I think you would be fine. 

What I would suggest is calling their 800 number on the site. Talk to Howard about it. Draw up a sketch of the room and he will be able to advise you. They are amazing at service and the risk free trial makes at least trying them a no-brainer. 

I was incredibly skeptical before trying them. I wanted big speakers, I wanted "money isn't the factor" speakers, but their awesome reviews made me try them. I am flooded by their performance, and my room is very close to yours in terms of volume. I have zero regrets trying and subsequently keeping them. I love my RSLs. Period 

Greg


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## ssjp55 (Mar 5, 2014)

Greg, did you audition any other brands to compare to?


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

Kef speakers and a custom brand made by a high-end home theater shop locally. 

I listened to Martin Logan and JBL in-store as well. 

What I can say is that of you like it loud, I strongly consider the 5.2 or 7.2 setup (or 9.2 if you like the front Height or have room for Front Wide channels) Especially with the larger room you have, the second sub would make a difference. The satellites do not sound like satellites, don't worry about them. Just make sure you have the bass coverage for that large a theater. And again, Howard is your best resource for that discussion. With their 30 days risk free trial, how can you go wrong???

Adding the second sub is killer. It was very good before as a .1 system but the instant I upped it to dual subs, it was perfect.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

Oh - and I should clarify - this was the only "compact" system I auditioned. I honestly felt a sub-satellite system was not going to "fill" my theater the way I wanted. I was very very skeptical. But the RSL speakers outperformed everything else, AND was the lowest-priced option of all the speakers I auditioned.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

ssjp55 said:


> My room is about 20' x 20' with a vaulted ceiling so the room is about 4100 cubic feet. Will these speakers be enough for a room this size? The orientation of my room prevents me from being able to use towers so I need to find some bookshelves to wall mount.


Provided your expectations for output and general presence are in line with the fact that these are, after all, small speakers with small drivers being used in a large room they should serve you well. I would suggest you consider CG24's all around though, and 2 subwoofers (especially if HT is what they'll be mostly used for).

If you do purchase them be sure to come back and post your thoughts. I don't think enough people consider RSL, and that's a shame because they make very nice products.


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## ssjp55 (Mar 5, 2014)

Just so I am clear on what is considered small...would you consider the Aperion verus grand bookshelf or the Ascend Sierra to be small? I didn't think the CG24 was that small of a speaker. I am not looking for perfect sound, but anything will be a step up from my TV speakers.


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## gregsdouglas (Feb 20, 2013)

I used the CG24's for my LCR speakers and CG4s for the other 6. (9.2 rig.) I like that setup, and it is more than sufficient. I can't see a lot of noticeable change from running CG24's all around. They're quite big for surround satellites, heavier, bulkier and I think you'll see diminishing returns doing that - as well as a lot more load on the amp... 

For Home Theater use, even the CG4's at the Left & Right may work well - but for 2-channel music (ok 2.1) I like the CG24 monitors. I honestly think CG24's all around is overkill - but Howard at RSL would be better than me to evaluate it.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

ssjp55 said:


> Just so I am clear on what is considered small...would you consider the Aperion verus grand bookshelf or the Ascend Sierra to be small? I didn't think the CG24 was that small of a speaker. I am not looking for perfect sound, but anything will be a step up from my TV speakers.


In a room the size of yours I would personally consider all of those to be small speakers. Physics aren't your alley when you try to put smaller speakers into a larger space. Will the RSL speakers be an improvement over what the TV sounds like? By leaps and bounds, and if that's the ultimate goal then I think you're on the right track. The CG24's are definitely not large speakers, so I would suggest you still consider those for all 5 positions (large speakers look like this ). Dual subs as well, but that's your call.


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## ssjp55 (Mar 5, 2014)

Yeah okay that is a large speaker. With a large price tag too! Thanks for the suggestions.


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## grillmaster75 (Mar 5, 2012)

even though this thread hasn't been posted on for some time I thought I thought I would give a mini review of the RSL system. Everything positive said so far, from the buying experience, support of RSL - if you have a question along with the honest response back; all of that is what I experienced. And of course the sound is as advertised; fantastic. An audio junkie living vicariously through in store demos, going to audio shows, I've wanted to upgrade my OLD and original Def Tech sub sat set up for years. When I had a Passatt CC with a killer Dynaudio sound system I realized that my home system had that "veil" of slightly muffled sound. With too many great reviews for RSL to ignore, and with severe placement issues (rear ported speakers out) I settled on the RSL's after listening to new Def Tech, Klipsch, and some of the other products listed on the RSL comparison website in person. I also listened to several sub woofers by themselves to get a sense of how they sounded.

heed the RSL advice of going flat with all speaker settings, no goofy sound enhancement program (concert, Hall ...) and give them 20hrs+ of break in and you will be a believer too. I like to think I have a better than average ability to listen through the music, to hear separate parts, instruments, background vocals and to enjoy quality sound, and these speakers deliver. That doesn't mean that many full sized book shelf speakers will sound inferior. But all speakers have sound trade offs and the RSL's stay truer to what I believe is the right sound. Even if I had more placement options several speakers I listened too were either way more expensive or simply not as good as what the RSL does. I did love the ML Motion monitors (Magnolia) and some BW Monitors - but WAY more costly and I couldn't place them in my entertainment center.

I hope you take this as an unbiased review because it is. I am saving the boxes for helping my daughter move - no way the speakers are going back.
Chris


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Thanks for contributing that Chris. It's always nice to see owners posting their comments.


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