# Worth a Sub Upgrade?



## mleuba (Feb 17, 2008)

Hi All,

I was at a friends house and he has the (virtually) same AV receiver as I do (Integra) but his systems sounds richer in my opinion. He selected Definitive Technology speakers, and I have the B&W CM-7 series with CM-1 center, CM-5 rears, and a Velodyne Mini-Vee sub. I like the B&W's natural sound and I am wondering if the relatively cheap sub is holding my system back. Thinking of upgrading to JL Audio F110's. Opinions? Will the sub upgrade improve my system noticeably? I'm interested primarily in music.

Thanks,
Mark


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

The JL's would be a small step up. Better still would be Internet Direct brands, like Epik, SVS, Chase Home Theater, Hsu, Rythmik, Seaton Sound, JTR, Funky Waves, etc.


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## DeuceTrinal (May 7, 2012)

I assume you've run through the audessy calibrations and your system has been properly set up? If not, start there. Which model receiver? Are you using anything else for bass management?
Check out the Rythmik F12 if you do want to upgrade, that would be a great step up from a mini-vee.


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## OZZIERP (Feb 19, 2012)

tesseract said:


> The JL's would be a small step up. Better still would be Internet Direct brands, like Epik, SVS, Chase Home Theater, Hsu, Rythmik, Seaton Sound, JTR, Funky Waves, etc.


I agree or at least thats been what I see in the field and at home especially for the money.
The ID brands tend to dig deeper with more output at a cost savings.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Since others have provided great info on the various subs, I'll stick to one question at hand, "_Will the sub upgrade improve my system noticeably? I'm interested primarily in music_."

In a word, yes. Assuming you are actually upgrading the sub, you should notice a big difference in the depth and "tightness" of the bass. A good sub also tends to extend the soundstage. I've found that music is especially unforgiving of subs; movies require more "boom" but music requires more "tune." By tune I mean, tight controlled bass.


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## mleuba (Feb 17, 2008)

Thanks All,
Appreciate the feedback. I have the Integra 7.8 AV receiver and plan on only one sub. I have tuned the system via Audyssey, followed the steps carefully. I have recalibrated various times after experimentations. 

I looked at the Rythmik and they are more than 50% cheaper than the JL Audio, so I am going to try them out.

Again, appreciate the comments and suggestions!

Mark


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## Driver_King (Sep 19, 2009)

I understand you are looking at Rythmik and, although their reputation and quality is excellent, I would also like you to consider Elemental Designs' A7s-650 for the best of musical response, high and accurate SPL, and deep extension. The A7s-650 is most likely closest in performance to the JL Audio Gotham in terms of extension and output and will handily outperform the single 15" Rythmik, but again, not to knock Rythmik. It also contains two 13" drivers, as opposed to a single 13" as on the SVS Ultra subwoofers. As I mentioned, I am sure you will make an excellent decision regardless but as an alternative, I would recommend the Elemental Designs.


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## utahsavages (Apr 29, 2008)

I've got one system that's noticeably limited by a smaller subwoofer, but they are otherwise pretty similar systems. My advice is to save up and go big - preferably with two subs. It's the one component I'm least likely to skimp on.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

utahsavages said:


> I've got one system that's noticeably limited by a smaller subwoofer, but they are otherwise pretty similar systems. My advice is to save up and go big - preferably with two subs. It's the one component I'm least likely to skimp on.


I concur that skimping on a sub does NOT pay. You can get more sub for the money with DIY or direct sales (SVS, Epic, Rythmik etc.) though. Also, multiple subs usually give you better-not _just_ more- bass. The great thing about that is that you can always add another sub when you can afford it. 

As strange as it may seem, my experience has been that subs truly reveal their flaws with music. :scratch: It's not that it doesn't take a lot to reproduce the BOOM in movies, it's just that it seems to be harder to find a sub that will "BOOM" for movies yet remain tight, clean and accurate with 2-channel music.


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## Driver_King (Sep 19, 2009)

wgmontgomery said:


> As strange as it may seem, my experience has been that subs truly reveal their flaws with music. :scratch: It's not that it doesn't take a lot to reproduce the BOOM in movies, it's just that it seems to be harder to find a sub that will "BOOM" for movies yet remain tight, clean and accurate with 2-channel music.


There are plenty of subwoofers that do just that. Elemental Designs, HSU, SVS, Rythmik, Martin Logan, Aperion, and Paradigm all come to mind that produce high SPL subwoofers with excellent sound quality for music at reasonable prices.


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## mleuba (Feb 17, 2008)

Really appreciate the good advice. I am strongly looking at the Rhythmik 15SE. Hearing that two subs are better than one, would it make sense to keep my Velodyne MiniVee in addition to the new Rythmik? Or, would that "degrade" the system, as compared to another sub of equal character to the new one? (I can't buy two right now)...

Thanks!


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## OZZIERP (Feb 19, 2012)

When it comes to running duals IMO it would be best if they were matched your system is only as good as its weakest link.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Driver_King said:


> There are plenty of subwoofers that do just that. Elemental Designs, HSU, SVS, Rythmik, Martin Logan, Aperion, and Paradigm all come to mind that produce high SPL subwoofers with excellent sound quality for music at reasonable prices.


I actually have 4 subs in my system right now! I have a SVS and DIY monster that are used in stereo/HT modes, but I've wired a nice Kef that can be used in "Direct" mode on my SSP.  There's a small NHT wired to the rears.

Don't get me wrong, I know that good subs exist. (BTW-The old M&Ks were also excellent musical subs). I was just making a comment on what I've heard in my room (Music showing flaws more than movies). :wave:


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## HIFI (Aug 3, 2011)

wgmontgomery said:


> Since others have provided great info on the various subs, I'll stick to one question at hand, "Will the sub upgrade improve my system noticeably? I'm interested primarily in music."
> 
> In a word, yes. Assuming you are actually upgrading the sub, you should notice a big difference in the depth and "tightness" of the bass. A good sub also tends to extend the soundstage. I've found that music is especially unforgiving of subs; movies require more "boom" but music requires more "tune." By tune I mean, tight controlled bass.


I agree. I have an acoustically sealed sub. It is an an Atlantic Technology Sub and I have found that subs that are sealed IMO seem to be tighter sounding than ones that are not (at least the ones I have heard)


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