# THX Certified



## GeemanSeven (Jun 29, 2011)

Hello,

I'm pretty inexperienced in the world of home theater and have been looking at upgrading my 8 year old Panasonic HTIB (it has a VCR on it). While looking at different receivers in my price range, 3 seem to stand out the most:

Denon AVR-1911
Onkyo TX-SR608
Pioneer VSX-1020-K

From the reviews I've read, the Denon and Pioneer appear to produce better sound quality, however, I believe only the Onkyo is THX Certified. I've read a little about what THX certification does and have personally heard many movies through a THX certified receiver (a good friend of mine has an Onkyo 705 that he runs through an HKTS-18 7.1 set up) and the sound quality is excellent.

What difference (if any) does a THX certified receiver have? I noticed a number of threads on this site that appear to support the Onkyo 608 (in particular a refurbished model at a great price).

Thank you and I appreciate any knowledge you can share about THX!

-Jeff


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

THX certification is just that, a certification that the receiver meets or exceeds THX standards. These standards are set fairly high and gives you some peace of mind that it will meet those expectations set by them.
That does not mean that a non certified receiver cant do as good or better but you do get some very useful THX surround modes and that nice little THX badge on the front LOL. I personally have an Onkyo and disagree that Denon and Pioneer have "better" sound. I think each has its pros and cons in the end you would be hapy with any of them. But in my several years of being a member on here Onkyo has been the leader in bang for buck.


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## GeemanSeven (Jun 29, 2011)

Thanks for the fast response!

I almost bought a TV with THX certification, but went with a different model that offered more HDMI inputs and other features for less money.

I've heard a lot of great things about Onkyo over the years and have family and friends that own them. There's that part of me that wants to do something different, but it seems that they have found a way to give both exceptional performance and value.

Next step is speakers - which I'm thinking probably should have been my first step. :doh:

-Jeff


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I agree with Tony assessment. I would add that THX's original criteria that is now known as THX Ultra2 Plus is especially demanding with THX Select2 Plus being Designed for a good bit smaller Rooms.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Mightywetfoot (Dec 5, 2007)

For me THX gives me assurance that I know what I am getting for the most part. Rarely am I able to demo equipment as is always suggested, so the badge lets me know I will have the output that I expect.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't think the denon or pioneers will necessarily "sound better" than the Onkyo.

As far as sound quality, there's four major contributors where recievers can create sonic _differences_

1) The Nature of the room Auto- EQ Software. IE Audyssey MultEQ vs Audyssey XT32 vs MCACC vs YPAO vs Trinnov vs Logic 7 etc

Because all of the above are their own forms of equalization, they all sound different. The jury's out on which sounds "best" - but surely they all sound different. I personally _would_ feel most comfortable using an FIR EQ such as the DEQX and manually equalizing for bass, and not touching anything above the Shroeder Frequency of a given room as I'd rather any voicing of my speakers be done by the speaker's good design.

Personally I feel source direct is the way to go

2) Pre-amplifier out headroom. If you're running an outbound amplifier, lesser receivers may have "cheaped out" on the pre-out section. If your pre-outs are clipping trying to drive an outbound amp, it will sound poor at higher volumes. Just having pre-outs isn't always enough - they need lots of headroom.

3) Amplifier output impedance / Crossover distortion. This however is ONLY an issue on paper. Modern solid state amplifiers should have absolutely negligible output impedance - but sony and panasonic have released some strange higher output impedance receivers in the past, and don't even bother with tubes if you want higher fidelity. With certain brands of receiver manufaturers that pack a lot of features, I am somewhat skeptical about the biasing used on their amplifiers. It seems they skimp on heatsinking and bias heavily towards class B to get higher output. I don't know what that means as far as sound quality consequences but I will say that the more heatsinking a class AB amp uses, the better - often a 90 watt amp may "sound better" than a 110 watt amp at low levels, and I prefer to lean towards receivers that focus less on features and more on an amp section. With all of the above said I am not a firm believer that differences in amp sound are ordinarily signfiicant enough to concern yourself over them, assuming they are even audible. 

4) Amplifier headroom. The name of the game is voltage and current, and at higher output levels, the amplfiier demands of your speakers are what determine when your amplifier will give out. THe more voltage your amplifier can put out into varying phase angles and impedances, the better. I like to look at power cube tests for this although only The Audio Critic uses this kind of test. I think amps should be able to do "240 watts into 4 ohms at 0.1% THD" but ultimately your speakers determine what kind of amplifier you need - their Z-charts and sensitivity are something you absolutely need to be familiar with. Few receivers have amp sections nearly as robust as would be preferred so a lot of us eventually end up going the separates amp route, hence why good pre-out sections are pretty important. Speakers that demand less can get away with lesser amps, and speakers that demand more may never "sound right" without spending a ton on amplifiers.


Now regarding THX, I consider it useful as a standard yet I consider it flawed as a practice. Because it is a paid certification, you can have an amp that would have the finest THX Certification, but because that would only serve to raise price to the end user, perhaps it is not worth it to the manufacturer. Is it worth it for a 500 dollar receiver to cost 800 dollars because of "three letters"? At some point it boils down to the balance between marketing vs engineering. THX Ultra 2 Plus Certification what have you might be a display of engineering in a cost no object electronic, but THX Select might just be pure marketing and there's no saying a competing product doesn't outperform it dollar for dollar. In order to pay for THX certification, there's gotta be costs cut somewhere. They may have an amp section biased heavily towards class B so it meets the THX spec for "output" but doesn't necessarily perform as well as a competing product at the same price point with no THX certification, less features, and even less "rated watts".

Also consider that you may not have THX certified speakers. THX certified speakers don't dip below 3.2 ohms, but many manufacturers make speakers which do fall into that issue range.

I do like THX certified TVs though. :T

Ultimately buy what you feel most comfortable with. For me, below $1000 that's recent stuff from yamaha and the x002/3/4 series stuff from marantz, above that range it'd be dedicated separates (Parasound/Emotiva/Hypex/Outlaw/ATI) for the front stage with a denon 4311 as the processor/surrounds amp, and above that it'd throw in a DEQX or Audessey Pro for fine tuning of bass EQ. If you feel comfortable with the THX certified Onkyo then by all means get it. At the end of the day it's your choice of speakers which determine about 90% of sound quality if not more.


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## GeemanSeven (Jun 29, 2011)

Thank you for such a detailed response, this was a great crash course for me in THX among other things. I think that starting off, having something like the Onkyo that is THX certified may help out, as I won't need to (and really don't have the ear or experience as of yet to) manually EQ the system.

This forum has really helped me broaden my horizons away from cnet and amazon reviews. I checked out some of the Marantz receivers and they are impressive (the older models seem to have considerable value as their price drops a lot for a refurbished unit). 

For speakers - I think I've been sold on the idea to start with a nice pair of tower fronts and move forward from there. My new goal is to piece together a solid 2.1 (or even 2.0) system this summer for around $1000 - $1500.

Thanks again for the advice!:clap:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
EEV provides some stellar advice and it is pretty much a consensus with the Staff that starting out with the highest quality Stereo Pair of Speakers is a much better decision than buying a subpar 5.1 Speaker Package. Problem is many want the instant gratification of doing it all at once.

I do personally enjoy THX Post Processing, but it is merely a preference. In all honesty, I was truly disappointed when THX first released the Select criteria as many of the Bench Tests of THX Select AVR's are not even close to the rated power. However, I do think there is merit to the Post Processing and Boundary Gain Compensation on Subwoofers that is available on Select AVR's. Better still, I do not know if I have seen one that does not offer Preamp Outputs which makes for a very cost effective SSP/Preamp Processor.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

GeemanSeven said:


> Hello,
> What difference (if any) does a THX certified receiver have? I noticed a number of threads on this site that appear to support the Onkyo 608 (in particular a refurbished model at a great price).
> 
> Thank you and I appreciate any knowledge you can share about THX!


First off, THX certification is a performance quality assurance standard, where products with THX are usually the best in class at a particular price point. It is a shame that Pioneer did not continue the THX Select 2 certification after the VSX-1018 (which I have in my own system). The 1019 lacked so many features, yet was still listed at the same price. I've not seen the 1020 yet. 

THX (Ultra2 or Select2) processing is a part of that certification where propriety equalization is used to better emulate the cinema experience in the home. An example is Re-EQ which mimics the SMPTE 202 X Curve (used in all cinemas). 

Unlike other DSP modes that attempt to be something (hall, stadium or toilet) THX's processing is based on actual cinema acoustics and how the cinema speakers behave in that environment. For the full THX sound experience, you should also have THX certified speakers because most speakers used in HT were originally intended for 2CH mucic systems and not for the demanding dynamics of film sound.

Anyway regardless of what else you have in your system. you should have at least THX certified AVR for the THX Cinema 2 mode. Brilliant stuff and I won't use anything else. Out of the AVRs you have listed, I'd go the ONKYO if it has at least THX Select 2.

Just my $0.02 worth.


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## GeemanSeven (Jun 29, 2011)

I ended up choosing the Onkyo TX-NR3008 as a receiver - THX Ultra2, MultEQ XT32 and the $1149 sale on Newegg were the deciding factors. Had the price not been such a value for the 3008, I would have opted for a refurb Marantz 6004 for under $500 on accessories for less and saved some serious $$$ (well, for me anyway).

For speakers I chose EMP's Impression line over Infinity's Primus line based on reviews that complimented the lifelike soundstage, vocal clarity and aesthetics (just moved in with my gf and her two cents help pay the rent). I got the E55Ti tower speakers, E5Bi bookshelf and E5Ci center speaker all from their clearance section for $962 shipped (saved about $300). I will say the Primus line was very hard to pass up, especially after seeing some simple DIY modifications (compliments of TypeA) that appear to make a huge difference.

**Side note: one of the E55Ti towers was damaged while being shipped - either it fell from somewhere high or something very large and heavy fell on it and tore through the box and the thick styrofoam padding and cracked the side of the speaker. I was nervous as it was a B-stock and had a no return policy. I called up EMP and emailed them pictures of the damage and they sent out another B-stock immediately and even offered to send a new one as a replacement at a substantial discount. I just received the replacement yesterday and it was in excellent condition! Their speakers are packaged well with thick top and bottom support as well as three thick supports around the middle. The speakers all come wrapped in a cloth bag that is wrapped by a thick plastic bag. Just thought I'd mention this as EMP offered outstanding customer support and very quick response with emails!!!**

I had planned on a HSU VTF-2 MK3 sub, but a reckless driving summons on the way home from vacation (found out that over 80mph is not a speeding ticket in Virginia, but a court summons) is going to tie up a bit of my fundage (I'm hiring a lawyer to fight it as reckless driving is class 1 misdemeanor and an automatic 30 day suspension in my home state which is reciprocal with Virginia). Long story short (too late) I went with the Dayton SUB-120 (shipped for $175). For the size of my listening area/room - it is more than enough. For the price, I may just add another one if I need to fill more space. As it is now, I have neighbors on both sides of my townhouse style apartment. The sub is against an exterior wall and not in a corner, and it really fills the listening area well. I have it crossed over at 80Hz and the gain at about 80db (any louder and it's almost too loud for the space).

So, how does it all sound together? Spectacular! I am very pleased with the set up. I split my time with 50% movies/TV, 25% music and 25% video games and the set up has the versatility to accomodate all of them very well. I was hesitant to pick up the center speaker as it is MTM and heard that a phantom center using the front towers can sound better. I have the center on a shelf above the TV and used the TV logic setting on the 3008 and sitcoms (using Netflix) sound great. For movies, I've been switching between PL II and THX Cinema - I need some better blurays to really test this out, but both sound excellent (and quite different from each other).

The towers and sub in stereo sound great for music through Pandora. I put in one of my favorite video games (Borderlands) in recent years and it really rocked the house (lots of thumping bass in this game). All together with cables, surge protection and a bluetooth receiver from monoprice, I spent under $2200. While this was about $700 more than I had planned for - I'm extremely satisfied with all the purchases!

Thank you to everyone here at the shack for your help over the past month and a half - you've all been great teachers and I've truly appreciated all your comments and insight into home theater!

-Jeff


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

GeemanSeven said:


> I will say the Primus line was very hard to pass up, especially after seeing some simple DIY modifications (compliments of TypeA) that appear to make a huge difference.


Those exact same cabinet mods may make a similar difference for the e55tis...!


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

Congrats! If you find the time, pics in the "home theater room photos" section are always appreciated.


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## GeemanSeven (Jun 29, 2011)

I will do that. It's not much to look at as far as theaters go- it's really just a living room, but it's what I have to work with.


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