# 1st Projector - which one?



## seantx (Oct 12, 2014)

Building a house and have a month to decide on a projector. Here's the info I think would be needed:

Room Dimensions: 13' Wide x 17' Deep x 8/10' Height
This is a true media room - no windows
From front screen wall to 1st row seating is 9' / 2nd row another 3'
Screen type will be - Elite AR120WH2 Aeon 120 diag. (58.32x104.1) on amazon for $465 has zero edge frame similar to Black Diamond but 1/3 the cost "1.1 Gain" whatever the that means 

NOTE - builder pre-wires the ceiling connection at roughly 15' back - is that going to be an issue for the intended 120" Screen Size?

Budget up to $1000 for Projector and here are my front runners based on 1) tons of reviews 2) tons of GOOD reviews - must haves (1080p/high contrast ratio/allow for 120" screen at 15' distance)


Optoma - GT1080 / HD141x / HD50
Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 / 3020 / 2000 / 2030

Ok - biggest question is $600 price difference between the Epson 8350 - 3020 worth better contrast ratio?


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Everything you need to know is here.

Try their calculator to see if your units will fill the screen at 15' with the required brightness.

That's pretty much all you need to kjnow, except that the contrast figures don't matter, which you can read about here.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I would disagree on two points. First, telling a fellow user that all he needs to know is at a particular site is rather dismissive and unhelpful. It does not really answer the question. Second, to say that contrast does not matter is fundamentally incorrect. It may not be as much of a consideration as many assume, and it may not be specified in a useful manner, but it is an important factor in enjoying video. 

I don't know the two models well enough to answer the question, but I suspect that there are others here who can share some experience. I hope seantx does not get the idea from the first response to his post that we won't put forth the effort to more specifically answer his questions.


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## John Stewart (Jul 5, 2014)

SeanTX - I read the review on the Epson at Projector Central. They have always been a great resource. I'm on my 3rd projector. I'm assuming you noticed its not 3D capable. It does looks solid for the price point. Lumen output will be fine and the verticle lens shift capability will allow you versatile placement without issues. Have your builder use cables that will support 4k (for when you upgrade). Your screen gain is a ratio of lumens projected to lumens reflected. You will not require a high gain screen with the lumens this unit provides because you will be controlling the ambient light. 
Not knowing your familiarity with projectors here's a couple of things to look at with respect to placement. You want to be sure at the mounted height there is no obstruction (read viewers heads) between the bottom of the lens and bottom of the screen. Screen placement will be critical and you'll want to take the time to measure relative to both the viewer height and projector lens shift angle. Also, don't forget to consider your center channel height under the screen. 
If the room is built I would mark the screen borders on the wall, get a laser pointer, a chair of approx height and get a feel for what you'll be looking at. For my taste a 120" Diagonal will be too large at 9'. A good rule of thumb is viewing distance = 2xScreen Width. You'll be at about 1:1 at 9ft. At this ratio you may find you won't like the quality of the picture. (pixels visible). I have a 92" Diagonal (80" Wide) and sit 10' back (1.5:1) and the screen looks big. You have to look around to see it all. The owners manual is a must read, all of this measurement info will be in there including the throw distance relative to screen size. Bottom line a projector is not a TV. They require some homework but its worth the work. Hope this helps a little.


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## seanG8GT (Aug 9, 2014)

To be clear there are multiples models of each optima and epson mentioned in my 1st post (see below) & I'm completely open to other brands of projectors (please share your opinion) - 

Optoma - GT1080 
Optoma - HD141x 
Optoma HD50
Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 8350 
Epson - 3020 
Epson - 2000
Epson - 2030

These Projectors currently being researched - if anyone has had experience with "ELITE SCREENS" please share - seems to be best value/quality for gray screen


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## Yiannis1970 (Sep 2, 2012)

seantx said:


> Ok - biggest question is $600 price difference between the Epson 8350 - 3020 worth better contrast ratio?


There is no a simple yes/no answer to that question since it's a subjective matter. Contrast is considered the holly grail of video projection. People know this so do the companies that raise the price when a new model performs better in that section.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

lcaillo said:


> I would disagree on two points. First, telling a fellow user that all he needs to know is at a particular site is rather dismissive and unhelpful. It does not really answer the question.


It may seem that way, but its the "teach a man to fish" concept. He's listed several units, has questions about throw, screen size, brightness, etc. For someone to answer that for each unit, they'd probably go to the linked site and use their calculator and post the results. Suggesting the OP do that for himself is actually more helpful than doing all the work for him.


lcaillo said:


> Second, to say that contrast does not matter is fundamentally incorrect. It may not be as much of a consideration as many assume, and it may not be specified in a useful manner, but it is an important factor in enjoying video.


Did you read the linked post? Does 2000:1 sound like an impressive contrast ratio? Not really these days. Yet most home theaters with projection that haven't been designed with complete dark rooms, with black surfaces, etc. won't do any better, and typically much worse. People pick projectors because one will do 40,000:1 over another that "only" does 8000:1. Those figures can only be measured in a highly controlled lab, and never achieved in a real HT. Wearing a white shirt in any room blows away any contrast figure above 2000:1 by reflecting screen light back to the screen. Also, nobody mentions that the contrast ratio you see in a commercial theater is 2000:1 or less, typically half that. That, and the info in the blog post I linked (which I thought was pretty interesting, btw), form my opinion that projector contrast ratio specifications don't matter.


lcaillo said:


> I don't know the two models well enough to answer the question, but I suspect that there are others here who can share some experience. I hope seantx does not get the idea from the first response to his post that we won't put forth the effort to more specifically answer his questions.


Ok, I see your point, it was a little terse, and for that I apologize to the OP. I thought giving the OP the tools with which to learn and make an informed decision may be more valuable than an unqualified personal opinion about one of the units on his list.


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## John Stewart (Jul 5, 2014)

Sorry. Missed your point. I'm not sure how one would express differences in viewing experience at different contrast specs. That said, the 8350 (the one I was referring to) has contrast of 50,000:1 the 3020 40,000:1. I doubt the difference would be noticed. My first panasonic 1080P was 11,000:1. Loved the picture. Low lumens (1100 max) too. Used to watch it at around 350-400 lumens with no ambient light. Gave a real movie theater experience. Liked the pic much better than Samsung 60" DLP ($4000 at the time) at 10' viewing distance. Middle projector 100,000:1. 1600 lumens. Much better for Live Sports. Current projector 500,000:1 2400 lumens. (Keep in mind that you won't operate your projector at max lumens. In this context its just gives an idea of the projectors capabilities.) Gives better black levels and shadow detail, but you have to be super picky to notice. I bought it for the 3D capabilities only.


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## Yiannis1970 (Sep 2, 2012)

If we are in to talk about contrast, we 'll be here until the end of time!!

Which contrast? On/off, ansi, intrascene, native, produced by an iris? There are so many factors when we discuss contrast that the whole marketing trick of the companies seems like the ultimate joke. There are no 200.000:1 and 500.000:1 nor even a 100.000:1 CR on any projector in normal viewing. These numbers can only be achieved with black and white patterns measuring projector's lens. Contrast is not a static but a dynamic concept, so anyone who trusts these numbers for buying a new projector is on a wrong path in my point of view.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

John Stewart said:


> Sorry. Missed your point. I'm not sure how one would express differences in viewing experience at different contrast specs. That said, the 8350 (the one I was referring to) has contrast of 50,000:1 the 3020 40,000:1. I doubt the difference would be noticed. My first panasonic 1080P was 11,000:1. Loved the picture. Low lumens (1100 max) too. Used to watch it at around 350-400 lumens with no ambient light. Gave a real movie theater experience. Liked the pic much better than Samsung 60" DLP ($4000 at the time) at 10' viewing distance. Middle projector 100,000:1. 1600 lumens. Much better for Live Sports. Current projector 500,000:1 2400 lumens. (Keep in mind that you won't operate your projector at max lumens. In this context its just gives an idea of the projectors capabilities.) Gives better black levels and shadow detail, but you have to be super picky to notice. I bought it for the 3D capabilities only.


Great choices. 

Just to keep it real, 100,000:1 and 500,000:1 are ratios that cannot even be measured on a screen in a lab, they are theoretical only. Past a few thousand:1, contrast ratios have nothing to do with shadow detail or black level. Lumens, on the other hand, matter a lot though just as equally hyped in specs. Agreed, you won't run your projector in torch mode ever, so you have to cut the specified lumens in half or less to hit reality. But since on-screen black is mostly determined by stray light hitting the screen (including light coming from the screen and being reflected back to it) and not the projector, all we have is brightness to help increase the apparent contrast.

Shadow detail is another issue.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Yiannis1970 said:


> If we are in to talk about contrast, we 'll be here until the end of time!!
> 
> Which contrast? On/off, ansi, intrascene, native, produced by an iris? There are so many factors when we discuss contrast that the whole marketing trick of the companies seems like the ultimate joke. There are no 200.000:1 and 500.000:1 nor even a 100.000:1 CR on any projector in normal viewing. These numbers can only be achieved with black and white patterns measuring projector's lens. Contrast is not a static but a dynamic concept, so anyone who trusts these numbers for buying a new projector is on a wrong path in my point of view.


Agreed!


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## seantx (Oct 12, 2014)

John Stewart said:


> Sorry. Missed your point. I'm not sure how one would express differences in viewing experience at different contrast specs. That said, the 8350 (the one I was referring to) has contrast of 50,000:1 the 3020 40,000:1. I doubt the difference would be noticed. My first panasonic 1080P was 11,000:1. Loved the picture. Low lumens (1100 max) too. Used to watch it at around 350-400 lumens with no ambient light. Gave a real movie theater experience. Liked the pic much better than Samsung 60" DLP ($4000 at the time) at 10' viewing distance. Middle projector 100,000:1. 1600 lumens. Much better for Live Sports. Current projector 500,000:1 2400 lumens. (Keep in mind that you won't operate your projector at max lumens. In this context its just gives an idea of the projectors capabilities.) Gives better black levels and shadow detail, but you have to be super picky to notice. I bought it for the 3D capabilities only.


so John... your pick fo the ones I last listed would be the "Epson 3020"? And why would NONE of the Optoma's be a good choice? 

Please remember, I am truly a novice to any of this so am asking out of ignorance. The Optoma's appear to have good reviews but like anything online understanding the "audience" reviewing the product will keep things in perspective.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

I took some time to research the Optoma units for you. Of the 3 Optoma units you listed, only the HD50 will hit your 120" diagonal screen at 15'. The HD141x is out of zoom range for your screen, the GT1080 has no zoom at all, and is out of range for your screen. Though the HD50 seems like it might be a nice projector, I don't have personal experience with the Optima, so I won't comment further.

I do encourage the use of the tools on projectorcentral.com, though. They've collected all the important information on almost every projector available, and you can play with them in the calculator to see if they will fit the screen size at the right distance, and get a feel for the resulting brightness. It's a great tool, highly educational.


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## Dream Theater (Sep 14, 2014)

Have you researched the Benq HT1075? Is the new model that followed the W1070 , which has gotten great reviews. I'm currently deciding between the Ht 1075 and the Epson 3020. If you bump your budget a bit , check out the new Epson home cinema 3500.


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## seantx (Oct 12, 2014)

I've seen the Benq HT1075 show up in my searches but had focused on other based on contract/lumens ... really have no clue which one I'll end up buying. Figure at some point I'll just jump in, order one, connect and go from there. Have you ever heard of or seen the Elite screen's "ZERO EDGE" AEON screen? Seems to be very reasonably priced at $400-$450 for 100"-120" screen.


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## Dream Theater (Sep 14, 2014)

seantx said:


> I've seen the Benq HT1075 show up in my searches but had focused on other based on contract/lumens ... really have no clue which one I'll end up buying. Figure at some point I'll just jump in, order one, connect and go from there. Have you ever heard of or seen the Elite screen's "ZERO EDGE" AEON screen? Seems to be very reasonably priced at $400-$450 for 100"-120" screen.


I haven't. I actually just ordered the 130" Seymour screen from Jamestown Home Theater Screens.


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## She-Karen (Dec 29, 2014)

Machambi, buy Epson home cinema 3500. It's good. Now have some discount in eBay.


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