# Remembering the Old Days



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

While describing some of my experience in the home theater business in a discussion with Sonnie, he suggested I start this thread. Hopefully it will encourage others to relate their experience as well.

I was fortunate to get my start in the business in 1979 with a dealer who had a real vision of what home theater could become. This was Art Colley of Art Colley's Audio Specialties and Video Home Theater in Baton Rouge, LA. Art was one of the first six dealers in the country for the Advent VideoBeam, which was introduced in, IIRC, 1975. Using Schmidt optics in the CRTs, and a high gain curved screen, the picture could be stunning when adjusted properly. By 1979, the founder of Advent, Henry Kloss, had started a new company Kloss Video, and introduced the Novabeam Model One. It used similar tube design and a modified Magnavox TV chassis in a smaller cabinet that could serve as something of a coffee table instead of looking like a giant norelco shaver in the middle of the room. It, too, used a curved screen in a 6.5 foot size.

These were the first products to attempt to create a market for a home theater. There were a hanfull of dealers in the US that "got it" right away, while the major manufacturers did not. There were, before long competitors from Mitsubishi, Sony, RCA, and others, but they wer very slow to get the concept of a home theater, focusing on building "big screens." Even Kloss was a little behind on the concept, only introducing flat screen versions of the Novabeam and the 10 foot diagonal version after dealers like Art had tinkered with the convergence circuits to get more pincushion and keystone range and adjusted the sets to get a reasonable geometry on a flat screen. We used to modify the convergence boards to get it to work, though there was a sacrifice of edge focus. Still, the ability to use a flat screen and do custom installs where the screen could be hidden made it a good trade-off for some applications. This was the beginning of the custom designed home theater.

Of course, in 1979, the audio available was much different. We were just getting VCRs with linear audio and surround sound amounted to just feeding the out of phase info from the stereo signal to a rear speaker. There were a few early processors that did a variety of signal manipulations but it would be a few years before Dolby decoders would become prevalent. Subwoofers were not even common at this time, but would rapidly become a necessity in a home theater installation.

OK, that's a start. I'll post more later. Anyone got any early HT stories? Art, are you out there? If so, it would be great to hear your perspective and memories.


----------



## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

When I was just 16 I had the opportunity to work for a small B&M that specialized in tape recorder repair along with selling stereo equipment & speakers back in 1968 at a Cincinnati suburb. Video recording for hi end consumers was just getting going. Huge machines -- smallest was around 18"x18"x8". Concord, Sony, and a few others. I didn't get to repair/maintain them was was able to look over the shoulder of my boss as he did so. Very wide tape width and the new helical rotating tape head were the big differences. Both open reel and large cassette.

At that time the Japanese receivers like Sansui and Kenwood were just starting to close in on Scott, Sherwood and Marantz. McIntosh was high end then. The little Craig 3" open reel portable tape recorder was the best buy/performer at $40. Audio cassettes had no decent hi freq response and were only good for dictation. I got good at maintaining/fixing Sony and Teac 7" open reel tape decks. I still have a working Sony TC-255 deck connected to my downstairs system.

The speakers we sold were not really hi end -- more like mid-fi. No subwoofers back then.

Bob


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I have an open reel machine on the bench right now. Most folks don't even know what they are, much less tackle fixing them. Your experience goes back about a decade beyond mine. By the time I got involved the Yamaha stuff was making a dent in the receiver and integrated amp market. We had a rather eclectic mix of stuff, from Klipch to Dalquist, Crown to Threshold...later Thiel and Acoustat, PS, etc.


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Interesting thread. I _love_ reel-to-reels! I drooled over them for many years before I finally got one in the mid 80s, a 10” Akai model. By then they were pretty much passé, but I didn’t care. Watching those big reels slowly spinning around – it was mesmerizing! Certainly attracted a lot of attention when people came over! Dressed up my equipment rack big-time!

I liked the idea of being able to record three hours of music on a reel (at the slower speed, 3-3/4 ips, I think it was). It was great at our family Christmas parties not to have to get up and change a CD or tape all the time. Within a few years I could get four hours on my hi-fi stereo VCR, so I finally retired it – reluctantly, I assure you!

Leonard, I first saw one of those big Advents projectors with the curved screens about 10 years ago. Man, were they big and ugly! As I understand, CRT projectors were available for many years for commercial applications. I assume they were just too expensive for even well-heeled consumers?

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I dugg it! Great thread!


----------



## Guest (Sep 12, 2006)

This is a great thread. I love it.
Back in the late 70's and early 80's I sold audio gear.
I had the pleasure of auditioning a very wide range of equipment.
At home I had a David Hafler preamp and power amp which I had assembled,
a Teac Reel to Reel and Large Advent speakers. I was really into most things
that Henry Kloss designed. Unfortunately, I am a latecomer to home theater,
but my son helped me set up a system, and I am learning much from HTS.
Even though my hearing is impaired, I find that having a center channel speaker
allows me to hear dialogue for the first time. Up till this year, I had to watch
DVD's with the sound turned off and the captions turned on. I am very thankful
for this forum. I am enjoying HT very much.

akitaboy


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I still have a pair of the original Thiel 04, a simple two way with a passive radiator producing a great image and overall nicely revealing sound. We sold everything from Klipshorns to Rogers LS35a in speakers and Yamaha receivers to Benini. Things were quite different back then. We spent tons of time auditioning new equipment and trying to find the best mix and the best values as well as the best of the best, though there was little market for the extreme in B.R., LA.

A lot can be said for Henry Kloss. He was a real inovator in terms of bringing decent performance to the masses and truly breaking new ground. He did have his faults in the way he did business, however. The lifetime warranty on The Advent Loudspeaker was one example. They knew those surrounds would not last forever but figured they would be on to a new company before they started failing if the VideoBeam didn't make them all rich enough to keep changing them. I wonder what has happened to some of the other folks from the old advent and kvc days.


----------



## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:
 

> ...I finally got one in the mid 80s, a 10” Akai model...


The two arms sticking out with those really big reels on them huh. I almost forgot how much I was impressed with the high quality of the Akai tape machines -- very good stuff. Thinking back I also worked on Ampex, Wollensak, Tandberg and Uher tape recorders.

Back then I vastly perferred tape over vinyl LP records. Even still have several purchased, distributed as open reel tape, music albums including Chicago II. But I have to say I really don't miss the tape hiss, given today's lossless digital recordings with surround sound.

Bob


----------



## Chrisbee (Apr 20, 2006)

My father was an early adopter of High Fidelity in the early 1950s with a home made 8 cu ft(?) reflex box. (made of the new chipboard material) It had twin, clear plastic, cone tweeters on a sloping panel on top. The Whitely driver had a 10" cambric/paper cone. This was driven by an Armstrong (valve/tube) tuner-ampifier with "Magic Eye". For years it was "Wireless World" that fell through the letter box. Later is was "HiFi News".

The tape recorder had a magical quality. A real audio time machine. It allowed us to write down the lyrics and sing along to "Blue Seude Shoes" when it was still fresh on the radio. Mid-1950s?

The old Philips 7" tape recorder lasted my father for many years. (with occasional DIY treatment to his spool clutches) He finally went over to an Akai cassette recorder to take advantage of the new stereo radio broadcasts.


----------



## chasw98 (Apr 20, 2006)

At home I had McIntosh C-28 with 2 MC2100's and "dual Large Advents".

How many of you techs ever learned how to relap reel to reel heads and bring them back to life?

And for fun on the weekends we would build VSO (variable speeasd oscillators) for Revox and Studer tape decks so we could create effects!


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I'm not feeling quite as much like a dinosuar, now thanks. While I know my way around the old Crown open reel machines and B77s, Studer and Revox were together by my time. And while I remember hearing of having it done, never did relap any heads on those old machines. By the time I was cutting my teeth in the industry Nak was making cassette decks like the 1000 that would rival everything but 15ips open reels. Still no way to beat more tape passing the head, though.


----------



## chasw98 (Apr 20, 2006)

lcaillo said:


> Still no way to beat more tape passing the head, though.


How about 30 ips on a 1/2" 2 track? That was Hi Fi!


----------



## Guest (Sep 18, 2006)

I've got some CD's made from master tape that was recorded at 30ips in the early '60s, sounds much better 99% of new releases.


----------



## chasw98 (Apr 20, 2006)

Bhagi Katbamna said:


> I've got some CD's made from master tape that was recorded at 30ips in the early '60s, sounds much better 99% of new releases.



Ah, yes, now here was a machine for that!


----------



## Bob_99 (May 8, 2006)

When I was young, sound hadn't even been invented, we had to draw pictures on walls to communicate.

:bigsmile:


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

So you really are 99 Bob??? :scratch: Welcome to the Shack!


----------



## Bob_99 (May 8, 2006)

Yes, it's me. I'm starting to have a bit more free time and hope to post more in the near future. I haven't stopped visiting though because it's a great site. Come to think, I guess I never had too much to say before now. You know the old saying, 'Better to not say anything and be thought a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt" or something to that effect. :laugh: 

Bob


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Bob_99 said:


> 'Better to not say anything and be thought a fool, then to speak and remove all doubt"


LOL That adage has served me well on these Forums, Bob! I don’t comment on anything I don’t know anything about, only on things that I do know about. Surprise Surprise, people think I’m an expert! 



chasw98 said:


> Ah, yes, now here was a machine for that!


Sweet machine there, Chuck! 

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## Guest (Dec 29, 2006)

Found this while "wandering" around the site. There are many pieces of various equipment I wish I still had from my younger days ... but none more so than my Teac 10" deck I bought in 1971. I also bought a Dolby-B processor for it !! Yes, it was a brand new technology at the time, and the Dolby-B box was a separate processor about the size of a modern VCR that you could put in the signal path to squeeze even more S/N out of the already-very-good tapes. Wasn't long until Dolby was a couple of IC's ... and the better variants were invented ==> but the tapes I made on that deck (mostly dubs of LP's played on an AR turntable with a Shure V-15) were CLEAN ... and sounded great on my Klipschorns !! Had the deck until 1990 ... but boy do I wish I still did !! Sold the Klipschorns in the early 80's before we moved to Europe for a few years --> that's something else I wish I still had [although tops on my "never had them but sure wish I did" list would be a JBL Paragon speaker !!]


----------



## Guest (Jan 16, 2007)

Let's see, my home entertainment center circa 1972...
Pioneer Amp like 100watts per channel
Sansui 4 Channel Synthasizer(SP) 
Dual Turntable
Teac reel to reel
2 Sansui Big A** speakers(front channels)
2 Akia not so Big A** speakers(rears)
19 B&W TV

I also had an 8 track player/recorder, several cassette dacks and for a while 2 reel to reels. After I got out of the the Air Force I came up with the brilliant plan to feed the Mono TV audio, into the 4 channel synth...early surround sound. Of course, I was in college at the time and probably stoned.:bigsmile:


----------



## mikeb (Oct 22, 2006)

My first stop in Home theater was the early eighties. I had purchased a RCA 25" colortrack anniversary edition that was actually oval shaped. There was two versions, one was oak which I had, the other black with a mirror top. I took the back off of the set and tapped into the speaker wire and ran leads to the back of the living room where I had mounted a couple of car speakers (they were inclosed with brackets). Although mono, it did a good job of filling the room with sound. Of course I had my trusty RCA vcr (top load of course) which I had paid $900 for in 1979 and blank tapes were $30 apiece at the local RCA dealer. :yikes: At that price one took full advantage of slp recording speed. :R


----------



## mikeb (Oct 22, 2006)

Forgot to mention that while in high school in the early 70's I did not have much of a home system, just the parents huge console stereo, but since all you do in high school is cruise, all that was needed was my trusty 8-track Craig Powerplay (and several books of matches) Ah the good 
ole days, Steppenwolf, Grass Roots,Procol Harum, Trapeze, Long John Baldry, New Riders of the Purple Sage and many many more.


----------



## scott (Dec 11, 2006)

hehe......i barely remember cassette tapes!


----------



## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

I remember using acetate 78 records (my parents') when I was pre-school. :laugh:


----------



## Chrisbee (Apr 20, 2006)

My favorite 78 was "On Top of Old Smokey". I played it again and again on a gramophone with a beautiful, brass centrifugal governor. We sharpened the thorn needles on a special machine that ran on the platter rim.

My first real (mono) system had an idler wheel, 12" platter, multi-speed, all steel, Lenco turntable. Mullard 510, valve (tube) pre-power amplifiers and a single 10" driver in a 1/4 wave folded horn. The highly magnetic cartridge weighed half a pound, tracked in ounces, had a can-sized step up transformer and lived in a huge, oil-damped unipivot arm. 

I started experimenting with endless speaker designs almost immediately to try and get more bass on 60's rock music. My 7 foot tall 18" diameter enclosure sounded wonderful on violin concertos. Despite (or perhaps because of) the imposing column being made from large empty cans stacked and taped together after having their bottoms cut out. 

I went on to build huge reflex corner enclosures with sand-filled baffles and later from solid concrete. The closet became my first (and last) IB for several decades. With only my trusty 10" driver fitted in a panel above the door it was completely hopeless. :blush:


----------



## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Reading all these posts makes me feel that I'm not the only "oldie" on this forum...

Anyone remember "Quadraphonic Sound"?...Makes me laugh when I think about it..

This was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread..
People were putting it in their homes and their cars and showing it off as the epitome of sound reproduction..Ahem!! just as I did..
It died a very quick natural death...although I guess it did get engineers thinking about surround sound..


----------



## Chrisbee (Apr 20, 2006)

Did anybody here ever try the Hafler rear speaker wiring technique?


----------



## mikeb (Oct 22, 2006)

Prof. said:


> Reading all these posts makes me feel that I'm not the only "oldie" on this forum...
> 
> Anyone remember "Quadraphonic Sound"?...Makes me laugh when I think about it..
> 
> ...


Don't feel all alone Prof, my college roomate had a quad system in the early seventies. :bigsmile:


----------



## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Anyone remember "Quadraphonic Sound"?...Makes me laugh when I think about it..





> Did anybody here ever try the Hafler rear speaker wiring technique?


Yeah, but it produced crazy results depending on the material you played. It simply dropped the difference signal across a rear (or rears) speaker strapped across the two positive terminals of the stereo mains. Sometimes the output would be too loud and sometimes you'd hear nothing. I remember Dynaco actually produced a device they called a quadaptor that used the hafler principle, but provided some control. I built one of these and used it for a while. Worked well enough I guess.

I was working part time in the late 60's to support myself through college repairing stereo equipment at a local HiFi repair shop. I remember several receivers started showing up that supported the new 'Quadraphonic' sound. To test these units out I purchased a few quadraphonic records - there weren't many. I do recall the first time I set four speakers (RF, LF, RR, LR) around my workbench and tested a quadraphonics decoder. Amazing, I could actually hear something different coming from the rear speakers. I remember thinking that this idea had possibilities (read ProLogic) and actually ended up building a four channel integrated amp from scratch (including a phono preamp) and used the guts of a Heathkit quadraphonic decoder in it - duh. I used that thing for years.

Four channel quadraphonic matrixing was an encoding process where four audio signals were mixed down to two and cut on a record. When the resulting two channels were played back from the record through a decoding process that had the same algorithm as the encoding processor, the original four channels were effectively retrieved (again, read shades of future ProLogic encoding - no one thought to combine it with video at the time).

Like all failed experiments, it seems if there are several standards available on the market, then they are doomed. (Geez, will the electronics industry ever learn to stop shooting itself in the foot).

There were three quad matrix encoding schemes used with records and appropriate decoders produced in those formats. Columbia (SQ sheme), Sansui (QS scheme), and ElectroVoice (Universal sheme).

There were receivers sold that decoded one or more of these schemes. Standalone decoders were also sold that could be used to create a four channel system from a stereo system. Just like any decoder, they had two RCA inputs that were fed from the preamps Left and Right outputs. Then it has four RCA outputs that you fed four power amps. The outputs would be Left front, Right front, Left rear, Right rear.
Usually they had a selector dial on the front that would select between (1) Pass through of Left and Right channels unaltered (2) Some goofy synthesized matrix scheme (3) Matrix decoding of either QS, SQ, or Universal schemes.

To take advantage of the matrix decoding you needed an appropriately encoded record using the same scheme.
The synthesized matrixing schemes were used when you played a record with two normal stereo channels and you wanted synthesized four channel sound (albeit ******). The synthesized decoding simply manipulated the phase relationships between the two stereo channels to create the four outputs. It basically sounded like a bad DSP.

Anyway, this 4 channel matrixed system died from lack of interest and was replaced not too many years later with a 5 channel matrixed system called ProLogic.......and so on....................................

brucek


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Great read there, brucek! :T 



Prof. said:


> Anyone remember "Quadraphonic Sound"?...Makes me laugh when I think about it...


I guess you noticed, it’s back! Now they call it “SACD” or “DVD-A.” And the general public is still avoiding it like the plague.

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

mikeb said:


> Don't feel all alone Prof, my college roomate had a quad system in the early seventies. :bigsmile:


Actually I feel very much at home on this thread


----------



## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

brucek,

All I can say is that you have a terrific memory !!


----------



## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> [I guess you noticed, it’s back! Now they call it “SACD” or “DVD-A.” And the general public is still avoiding it like the plague.


Nope those are old hat and dead :arrow: now 5.1 (or up to 7.1 if there was any content) linear PCM, DD+, dts-HD HR or lossless Dolby TrueHD, dts-HD MA at up to 24bit/96kHz all on either Blu-ray or HD DVD format shiny discs. I have two primary music HD DVDs, "The Way Up - Live" by Pat Metheny Group and "Live at the Greek Theatre" by Chicago/Earth Wind & Fire. Both in 5.1 new audio codecs but still lossy :no: . At least DD+ is often 1.5 Mbps rather then the old 640 kbps max of legacy DD. The Pat Metheny title does have 2 channel lossless linear PCM though. Reports are that Lord of the Rings will come out in 7.1 surround sound. The player manufacturers need to update their designs to handle the new 7.1 titles.


----------



## knasty (Jan 25, 2007)

Remember the old days? Still use a Mc C-28 and 2100 amp connected to a pair of Altec A7-500W II Voice of Theater Speakers. Inputs to C-28 include a Teac A 7030 10.5 reel to reel (15 ips & 7.5 ips) through a Advent Model 100 Dolby and a Phase Linear 8000 linear motor turntable. Other equipment includes a Mc MCD-7005 CD, Mc -73 Tuner and MPI-4 Performance Indicator and a KLoss NovaBeam Model One-A. This is in a secondary HT Setup, but everything works and is in specs. So I don't have to remember, just have to go and turn everthing on.....Also on the quad front don't forget RCA CD-4 quad records, I still have quite a few discs and the decoder and shibata cartridge that was required...


----------

