# Martin Logan nuts



## kurt

How many other Martin Logan guys are on here? Just wondering and if so what are you running? 

Heres my list-

Martin Logan Summits (fronts)
Martin Logan Stage (center)
Martin Logan Vistas (rears)
:bigsmile:


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## phogandive

Hi,
I'm running ML CLS's for front R+L, with 12" DIY woofers acting as stands for them, and an ML Theater for the center. Also have an 18" Velodyne for a sub, and using cheapie RS speakers for rears.

Peter


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## Guest

I've got a pair of Scripts, but they don't fit my current layout (no room on either side of the screen).

Great sound though when paired with a proper sub! 

I've had to step down to three HSU centers that sit under the screen... not ... quite ... the same.


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## looneybomber

I don't own any, but I do drive by their production plant every once in a while. I really should stop in and take a tour...


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## Sonnie

I really wish I could afford these... but it's only a dream for me.


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## Guest

My local Magnolia store was clearing out their existing MartinLogan stock a few months ago and I JUST missed out on a set! I've been kicking myself ever since


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## Sonnie

I finally joined the club... :T

New thread here!


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## daniel

I'm going to buy Martin Logan Vantage next spring. If I had more money I would buy the Summit but I would be surprised if I have that kind of money.

Unless I find a used pair.


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## Sonnie

Check Audiogon... I know there were some Summits there and Vantages as well at a very good price.


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## jerome

I've got a pair of Vista as front speakers. The rest of my current setup is described in my signature.

And yes, I love them !:kiss:


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## Sonnie

My Motif center will be in tomorrow... :bigsmile:


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## Rodny Alvarez

Sonnie!!

How about some pics!!


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## Sonnie

Patience... I've got to go to Troy to pick up the speaker first. I also have a pair of PC-Ultra's coming in as well. :bigsmile:


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## Rodny Alvarez

PC ULTRAS!! WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don't need any more speakers:foottap:


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## Sonnie

I know... I've got all I want now.... :bigsmile: :bigsmile: I promise, I'm not going to buy anymore. :whistling:

Okay... maybe some ML Fresco surrounds if I can ever find a deal on a discontinued or used pair in black.


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## Guest

To those who own ML's, how much power are you running per channel? I've heard that they require a lot of power to sound good. Is this true? Can they be run using a receiver, or do you need a dedicated big-dollar amp?


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## jerome

The main problem with ML speakers is not that they need a lot of power to sound good but that they have very low impedances at high frequencies (1.2Ohms at 20KHz for Vista for instance).
This puts some constraints/restrictions on the amplifier. Not all amplifiers can deal with very low impedances (Bryston have problems) and most of the receivers fail to do so too. If you go for ML without build-in amplifiers for the panels then you will need a separate amplifier which is happy at driving very impedances.

Of course it helps to have a powerful amplifier (to get tight bass) but my Arcam P1000 with 125W per channel is more than I need.

For info: bi-amping do not help on ML (been there ... :duh


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## Sonnie

My Anthem MCA-50 runs 180wpc/8ohms ... 265wpc/4ohms ... 340wpc/2ohms ... that's with all 5 channels driven.

The Denon 2807 I was using previously did well until I really cranked it up loud, then it became harsh. The Anthem stays very smooth throughout the volume range. For movies the Denon seemed fine, but the music concerts is where I noticed it seemed like it was running out of gas.


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## Turbo Ron

I have the Martin Logan Summits front right and left, and using a McIntosh 402 amp, 400wpc. Center speaker Martin Logan Stage, and Martin Logan Motif surrounds using a McIntosh 205, 200wpc to power the center and surrounds speakers.


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## daniel

I have Martin Logan Vantage loudspeaker. Driving them is a "big" Simaudio 50w/ch 8 ohms (it double for 4, than 2. Minimum recommended impedance: 1 ohm. ( maximum remembered power tested :540w)

They sound huge and I don't need that many watts to get High spl.

I would like eventually to try tube amp. ( I've found that most sounded and looked gorgeous)


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## Sonnie

In my next dedicated HT room... I will have nothing my ML speakers... :T

I truly miss mine. :sad:


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## Brian_74

I have ML Vantage and will soon *hopefully* have a Motif center. I'm driving them with a Sunfire TGA5200, 200WPC. Mmmm Good :bigsmile:


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## Sonnie

I am leaning heavily towards the Vantages right now.


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## Rodny Alvarez

Well I just purchase a pair of Aeon i from audiogon, I listened to some Donal Fagen last night for a little bit and the sound, imaging and stage its unbelivalbe, I still need to adjust them a little bit more, cant wait to get the center channel:bigsmile:


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## Sonnie

Nice... and welcome to the club... :T

I ended up going with the Spire's, Matinee and Clarity's. I am excited about getting the HT room ready so I can enjoy these things.


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## Alarmnbob

I have a pair for music only! I don't use them in my HT. Martin Logan Sequels . I have been in the presence of the Statement..........speechless


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## Rodny Alvarez

My center came in:bigsmile:

Now I need to build my front cabinet/basstrapp, to hold the center.

This things are amazing! the clarity, imaging and stage....WOW, very happy with the purchase!:yes:

Now my wife want to change the red color to a tan/brown, she said it would look better with the maple color on the Aeon's:newspaper:


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## SteveCallas

I should be able to spend a full day auditioning MLs sometime around the 26th. I'll probably limit myself to Vantages & Vistas in case I am wow'ed by what I hear, as the prices on those at least seem somewhat reasonable. 

The dealer has a showroom and I tried to check them out last Thursday, but the place was closed during my lunch break and just after work. Hopefully they haven't gone out of business - I'll have to call in advance I guess.


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## gbinplano

Just found this site. I have ML Quest Zs in front, Logos in center and Aerius i as surrounds. Rears are Phase Technologies and two Velodyne ULD-15s handle the low end. The MLs are all driven by a Parasound 2205 power amp at 220wpc. The rears are driven by my Onkyo NR906 receiver at 145 wpc. Not current state-of-the-Art, but it works for me...


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## Sonnie

Welcome GBin... nice setup... :T

Steve... I can't believe you haven't listened to the ML's yet. I understand the Vantages are pretty nice at their price point... and there are usually some good deals on Audiogon.


So Rodny... are they that much better than the Boston's? :whistling:


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## Rodny Alvarez

Sonnie said:


> So Rodny... are they that much better than the Boston's? :whistling:




:bigsmile:


:T


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## SteveCallas

Today was the day - I just spent a little over two hours listening to the Martin Logan Summits. The cd player was some exotic brand I never heard of, the preamp was Conrad Johnson, and the amp was Monster. I used the songs I always use, with one or two new additions. I had the store essentially to myself, only two other customers came in during my whole two hours session, and they didn't interrupt my listening, just asked the staff some questions. I left pleased, these speakers were really nice, and I needed a good two hour music session with all the recent traveling and hotel-living I have been doing.

These are very directional, sweet spot-type speakers. If you stand up or move a foot or two in any direction, the sound changes a lot (for the worse), but in the right place, things sound good. With the seat positioned just so, I began my listening. Don't know why I expected anything different, but the treble sounds dipole-esque. It's a familiar presentation if you've heard dipoles before, not 100% the same, but maybe 75%. I guess I was expecting the electrostatic sound to be something unique and unlike anything I've heard before, but that wasn't really the case. 

Detail is great - even the smallest of ambient sounds are present. Overall tone is very smooth and slightly laid back until the very top end. This equates to great male vocals and instruments like cello and sax, anything in that mids range. Most music falls into this range, so the result is a very pleasing, relaxing sound. Unfortunately for me though, female vocals and violins - the cornerstones of the types of music I listen to (female vocals and violins make up the biggest chunk of my demo cds too, ask anyone who was done an audio comparison with me :R) didn't have the sparkle or pizzaz that I like and am used to. The result is that someone like Michael Buble or Pink Floyd sound amazing and life like, but Erin Boheme, Rebecca Pidgeon, and Yanni's Aria lack that goose bump-inducing tone I like. It's not a loss of clarity or anything like that, it's just the voicing the creators settled on. What was interesting is that after my first few songs it seemed like a forgone conclusion that the entire top end was going to be laid back, but then I played Al Hirt's Green Hornet - a high pitched trumpet solo - and it was extremely bright. So much so that I couldn't bare to finish the song, and that rarely happens with speakers. I'm thinking the room reflections with the highest of pitches hurt. Don't misinterpret me though, overall tone was very good, and based on impressions I read on the internet, the majority of people probably like a slightly laid back sound.

Soundstage is wide and big, a positive of the dipolar nature, but at the same time, the imaging is a bit more diffuse than say a good TM. You get a 3d-ness to the music, as sound waves are bouncing all around the room - the treble is being emitted both in front and behind the speaker. What happens is that the treble comes at you in a first wave, directional from the front face of the speaker, and then again by means of reflections from the front wall, delayed only by milliseconds. The effect works to its greatest capacity with opera music in my opinion, as it truely sounds like a live event in an opera house. With music that has a more intimate setting, you lose a bit of that pinpoint nature to certain sounds. On the whole, the Summits fare better in terms of soundstage and imaging than a standard dipole speaker using conventional drivers, that's why I'd say they seem like 75% dipole in nature. 

Bass was actually quite good. Music was full bodied and I didn't notice any strain or distortion with any bass notes.

All said and done, great speakers that did leave me very impressed.....just not wow'ed. My expectations may have been unrealistic, I guess I was expecting something like I've never heard before.

Summits cost $11k, Vantages cost $5.3k, and Vistas cost $3k. If you love the Martin Logan sound and are looking only at the newest line of speakers, I'd say get the Vistas and a good amp to save you some cash. The Summits and Vantages charge a premium for built in amplification of the woofer section.


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## Sonnie

Very good review Steve and similar to my thoughts, other than the female vocals, etc... I can't say I have ever listened to any females on the ML's I had, but David Gilmour was astounding to say the least. My former Ascent i's sounded good from any of the front three seats, obviously the center seat being the absolute best. Of course I don't move much when I am listening or watching... I pretty much sit there, so that part has never concerned me. Actually, I don't know of any speakers that have ever sounded good while standing up or walking around. :huh: I can also say that I have never heard any other type speakers that sounded anywhere near as good as the ML's I have owned and/or heard.

Audiogon is your friend when it comes to ML's... usually lots of dealer demos for about 40-60% of retail. For instance... there are some Summit Bubinga finish for $5200 right now that are demos. There are several running from $5400 to $6000.

Vantages are there for $3000 and another pair sold for $2750.

One thing about used ML's... the owners are typically very caring with their ML's, so chances are good you can get "like new" speakers.


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## JRace

I am about to join the ML club....

Summit X's / Stage / Vista / Depth on there way...to be joined up to a 5ch Bryston 9bsst2....should be here in a week or so...:R


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
A bit of a revival on this topic. J Race, I hoped you ended up with your proposed ML combo. I was actually doing a Google Search of my Stage Center Channel when this page popped up.

In a HT capacity, ML's ESL Lineup: the current generation and the one immediately before these (Prodigy, Odyssey, Ascent i, etc) do shockingly well for HT.

Thanks to Panels which can handle the high SPL's that are essential to recreating the Cinema experience at Home and high quality Woofers (ICE powered Aluminum Woofers in the current generation, custom enclosures with high quality Auminum Woofers, Force Forward Bass Alignment, etc in the earlier generation. 

In addition, Martin Logan's ESL Series Subwoofers brought high quality low bass specifically designed to work well with Panel Speakers. The Patented technology for these Subwoofers has been impressive. Namely the Balanced Force Arrangement (8" or 10" woofers being placed 120 degrees to minimize vibration and distortion and the TriLinear Driver Array (3 woofers run in parallel in the place of a single 15" or 18" Woofer) really help these Subwoofers be competitive with the best in the World.

Combine the clarity with Martin Logan is known for with high SPL Levels, provided sufficient amplification, and you really have the best of both worlds.
Cheers,
JJ


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## moon

I am running Odyssey's with a depth sub in a dedicated room.

Steve, I have tried something I read in a 2002 stereophile for the back wave. Take a bi-fold door from Home Depot and put it at the wall directly behind the ML speaker. Where the hinge is at the center of the bi - fold should be lined up so it is in the center of the speaker with the panels going to the wall at a 30 degree angle.This breaks up the rear wave and re directs it to the center of the room and the side as well. So, the sound isn't hitting the back wall and being bounced right back to the stator. This tweek makes a huge difference on the sound and is cheap to do.

You can buy spray primer to apply to the doors and then paint them the same color as your walls

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Speakers- Martin Logan Odyssey's + Depth subwoofer
Simaudio W-5 amp, Evolution series P-7 pre and Supernova cdp
Audience Adept Response R12 conditioner
Sony VPL-HW10 projector, Daylite electric screen,Panasonic BD30 blu-ray player


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
That sounds like a great tweak. Treating the back wall with Electrostats really goes a long way in maximizing the sound. Giving several feet from the back wall is huge as well. I cringe when I see pictures of setups where Martin Logans are setup flush against the wall. Sadly, in some of Martin Logan's literature, the Speakers are depicted flush with the back wall.

Distance from side walls is not nearly as important. This is part of the blessing/curse of the fairly narrow dispersion of the Speakers. I do think it makes it important, in a HT setting, to use a Center Channel as opposed to running a phantom configuration with no Center Channel. However, some prefer this arrangement and certainly whatever makes one happy is great with me. 

I do agree that the Martin Logan Center Channels are much different in design to the ESL's they are being paired with. Going so far as to add Dome Tweeters with ESL Panels. This is due to the size limitations of the size most setups Center Channel applications. If I used a Projection Screen, I would definitely use a matching ESL Tower. That being said, I do think ML has done a good job making the CC's match as closely as possible given the challenge and am quite pleased with my Stage.
Cheers,
JJ


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## stumpgc

Just purchased a trio of Encore TF's for my fronts. What would be a suitable surround for these? Driving them with an Onkyo tx-nr807. Thanks Greg


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
The Encore's are designed to be used as Mains, Center, or Surrounds. So you can just buy 3 more and have a completely matching Speaker set.

I have not listened to the Encores. If you like the way it sounds for your Mains, it should perform admirably for your Center and Surrounds.
Cheers,
JJ


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## chrapladm

Well I have a few questions:

I am wanting to know does everyone who has the ML stuff just have a 5.1 system not 7.1?

I was always thinking I would use there wall hanging ESL panel for the rears but they dont make them anymore. I haven;t heard the Martins Logans since I first heard them and that was a Prodigy, script and cinema I think setup. They were hooked up to all Krell stuff and the sound was amazing. I have since not heard anything close. BUT I could never afford them so I stop trying to. 

Then I fell in love with the 800 series B&W stuff. BUT the price was that of the ML's so I thought about the ML's again.

BUT after reading more I am wondering if the lower line stuff is as good as what I remember. SO if I was going to build a HT of ML's what would be the entry level stuff that still has the ML sound?

I am not basing this "entry level," by just price. I just want a true ESL panel that I dont mind if it doesn't reach 40hz. And can you make a 7.1 system with the ML's?

Or is there a need because of the wide dispersion?


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## Sonnie

5.1 here... :T

I own Prodigy's with a Theater center and Ascent surrounds.

You can get Fresco's for rear wall hanging that are smaller than Scripts and probably do a 7.1 setup.

I personally like the older ML's over the newer stuff. I sold my Spires and bought the Prodigy's and won't look back.

ML's have very narrow dispersion, but still for rears I do not have any issues with surround and my room is 19.5' wide.


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## gbinplano

chrapladm said:


> Well I have a few questions:
> 
> I am wanting to know does everyone who has the ML stuff just have a 5.1 system not 7.1?
> 
> I was always thinking I would use there wall hanging ESL panel for the rears but they dont make them anymore. I haven;t heard the Martins Logans since I first heard them and that was a Prodigy, script and cinema I think setup. They were hooked up to all Krell stuff and the sound was amazing. I have since not heard anything close. BUT I could never afford them so I stop trying to.
> 
> Then I fell in love with the 800 series B&W stuff. BUT the price was that of the ML's so I thought about the ML's again.
> 
> BUT after reading more I am wondering if the lower line stuff is as good as what I remember. SO if I was going to build a HT of ML's what would be the entry level stuff that still has the ML sound?
> 
> I am not basing this "entry level," by just price. I just want a true ESL panel that I dont mind if it doesn't reach 40hz. And can you make a 7.1 system with the ML's?
> 
> Or is there a need because of the wide dispersion?


FWIW, my 7.1 system is comprised of ML fronts, surrounds and center (QuestZ, Aerius _i_, and Logos). Rears are Phases and two subs are Velodyne 15" (one digital and one analog). So little discernible information is broadcast by the rears that I have no imaging problems.

GBinPlano


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## chrapladm

WOW They stil make the frescos?
After checking out there website I can only find the frescos in the archives.

Do you think they would work in a 7.1 where there are 4 of them to cover the rear channels?


I remember the Prodigy's and would love to have a pair of those but might have to wait for those. And how well do you like your theater center Sonnie?

I only have about 2-2.5ft around the rear seats andsides and was afraid I couldn't fit anything floor standing.

And Sonnie I am starting to look into the idea of buiding a riser sub like yours but with just two 18's.


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## chrapladm

OK I was mistaken.....Not the Frescos.

I remember there being a wall hanging ESL with a similar panel size as the scripts I believe.


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## chrapladm

Script i

Thats what I was thinking of for a surround. They dont make these anymore do they?

Andcould you use one of the center channels as surrounds?

Maybe like the current Matinee?

BUt by the looks of that center I think maybe I wouldn't have the full ML sound but what do you guys think.

ANd lastly can the Stylos be found still?

I think these would be the best for surrounds but they are an older model. I wish ML would come out with something like them again.


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## Sonnie

Correct... the Script, Script i, Fresco, Fresco i and Vingette are all wall hangers that are not longer produced. However, you can find those at bargain prices on Audiogon. I purchased all of my ML's used at less than half price and they are in immaculate condition.

You can use the Matinee as surrounds... those should work fine, although they might be a little more expensive.

Audiogon can be your friend in this situation.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Sonnie's setup is simply fantastic. I use Vantages, Stage, Vistas, and Depth in my HT and have been quite pleased. I completely understand why many favor the previous generation (Prodigy, Odyssey, Ascent, etc). They did use a much larger Panel than all current Models but the 25k CLX.

While Martin Logan claims that the current Models offer the same if not better performance by virtue of using more holes in the Stators and using an Aluminum Frame instead of MDF, many do not believe this to be the case. Case in point, Sonnie owned Spires for a brief moment before going with the Prodigies.
I do think the Prodigies are a masterpiece. Even won Stereophile's Speaker of the Year.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Sonnie

Yeah... by no means did my Spires sound bad either. They were _*absolutely marvelous*_ and I would suggest that quite the majority of people out there that had never heard ML's would love a pair of Spires in their system.

For me though... after having Ascent i's, and then going to Spires... I could tell a difference, which could have been a lot to do with room differences and setup, but once I changed from Spires to Prodigy's, I now conclude that the Prodigy's are *absolutely marvelous +1*. However... I own them... I am suppose to say that, right? :whistling: Seriously though... I could go back to Spires with very little cost involved if any, but I won't.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
If anything, Prodigy prices are going up. It is a Legacy Model that should be safe in respect to Martin Logan's announcement that they will no longer offer Panels and other Parts for some Legacy Models.

Since the Prodigy was one of the last Models introduced before the current generation, you really should be golden. Simply a fantastic Speaker.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino

I almost got a set of Prefaces for a good deal (i think) but my ''W'' stopped me. Kinda glad she did cause i personally would of had a problem finding speakers to match them well. For now i'll stick with my paradigms.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Some BB/Magnolia's have been blowing out Prefaces for 600 Dollars for the pair. Mind you, they retail for 1500 Dollars so it is an insane deal. You could truly use them a few years and get your money back selling them on Audiogon.

As to matching the Prefaces, the Encore CC is fairly cheap and on sale and uses the same ATF transducer as the Preface does.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino

Remember in my post. The ''W'' factor came into play and still will. But soon as MY dedicated room gets done she won't have much of a choice as everything in our room will be in MY room. Can't wait.


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## Wardsweb

I ran CLS for years










before going to Prodigy


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## chrapladm

Nice setup wards. What did you think of the diff when going from the CLS to the Prodigy?

And in regards to the Matinee's do they have that ML sound? 

I only ask because the panel looks so small.


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## bambino

Use to have those at the electronics store when i was a kid, always thought they were the coolest speakers. Except for the price that is. Awesome setup by the way!


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Wardsweb, your Prodigy setup is truly beautiful. As were your prior CLS's. However, the Prodigies are a special Speaker that I am actively seeking out to replace my Vantages.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Wardsweb

chrapladm said:


> Nice setup wards. What did you think of the diff when going from the CLS to the Prodigy?
> 
> And in regards to the Matinee's do they have that ML sound?
> 
> I only ask because the panel looks so small.


The electrostatic magic is there in abundance and now we add serious bottom end for a more dynamic speaker. While the CLS were great for music they didn't have the impact for home theater. Now I have the best of both worlds. From delicate piano to house shaking explosions, I have it all and couldn't be happier.

I haven't heard the Matinee so can't give you an opinion.


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## Sonnie

Indeed a gorgeous setup Luther... :T

Papi... I have heard the Matinee and the Motif as centers and they were very good to me, but I cannot say how they sound as surrounds. I can not imagine getting that big ML sound from them, but then again, they are surrounds. Yet again... I have Ascents as surrounds. :huh:


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I would look at a used Motif over the Matinee.
Cheers,
JJ


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## hillbilly

Howdy-First Post!

Just thought I'd chime in about ML. I got bit by the bug about a year and a half ago.

Started out with the Prefaces for the front, then bought some almost mint Requests.

Moved the Prefaces to surrounds, bi-amped the Requests, and use Klipsch RS-42s for rear 
surrounds.

Center is the ML Cinema i. Subs are two 12" Velodynes.

The system is very dynamic for music and HT, the only speaker I'll change is to get a Theater
for more presence as the center.

I've heard the newer speakers (Vantage, Spire, Summit), but for my room I prefer the larger panels
of the older Requets.

Sounds like a great community, Thanks!


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## Sonnie

Welcome to Home Theater Shack... :T

We may have more than MartinLogan's in common since we are both hillbilly's... :dumbcrazy:


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## Jungle Jack

Requests are great Speakers and many prefer the earlier ML's. Upgrading to the Theater would be a great upgrade as it is huge. My Brother uses dual Ascents, Theater i, and Descent i in his 5.1 Setup and the Theater is great.

The current ML's might surprise you. Though smaller, the Crossovers and Panels have seen updates that have yielded a very dynamic sound. I cannot believe how dynamic my setup is.
Cheers,
JJ


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## hillbilly

Jungle Jack,

Thanks for your insight. 
One of my next goals is to re-configure my amplification. I'm using Carver amps, and a B&K amp
for the Martin Logans. How are yours configured?


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## hillbilly

Thanks Sonnie!

Looks like a great community!

Yeah, living in the hills is Nirvana---just don't tell them city folk!


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## Jungle Jack

My Signature at the bottom of my Posts describes how I have the ML's setup. Been quite satisfied. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## kev

i ever have old aerius for my stereo set up,i never forget their good sound,now one of their panel is damage :sad:


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## hillbilly

*Re: Martin Logan Panels*

Kevin,

Sorry to hear about your aerius panels. You can replace them yourself.
Martin Logan still sells replacement panels. The Martin Logan Club website
has a link to a discussion on how to install them. 
You said they were out-are you sure they are "blown"? When mine sounded
a little lackluster, I unplugged them overnight, then vacuumed them the next
day. It worked wonders.

Good Luck!:T


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Martin Logan still makes Replacement Panels for the Aerius as they do for all Speakers they have ever made. I highly recommend picking up a pair of Panels as you will be shocked at how good your Speakers will sound.

While it is a not fun to replace Panels you will practically have new Speakers. If you do replace them, remember it takes some hours for them to break in, but even just in will sound much better than old Panels.

The Aerius was the first ML Speaker I purchased and started the sickness I now suffer from. If you do not want to replace the Panels, you can still get a decent amount of money for them as is on Audiogon.

For a few weeks ML was going to stop offering Replacement Parts on certain Models. Thankfully after much discussion and many complaints, Martin Logan changed paths and will continue offering parts for all of their Speakers.
Cheers,
JJ


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## kev

thank you for the advice hillbilly and Jungle Jack , i had been planning for find replacement panel for my aerius.


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## rotfan

I use Martin Logan Summits (woofers not used) along side of Magneplanar Tympani IV
bass panels (modified). The Magneplanar bass panels provide a great match with the 
Summits (both are dipoles and have very low mass). Combining electrostatic elements 
with planar magnetic gives one a very deep, detailed, and huge realistic sound-stage. 
The Magneplanar Tympanis provides some of the best quality mid to low bass around
(great impact, and just plain realistic. I also use a Martin Logan Logos for center
channel.


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## Sonnie

Very interesting... I wish I could hear that setup.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Now that is a very cool setup. I love the idea of using large Maggies to handle the bass. While I am quite satisfied with my Martin Logan Subwoofer, I am sure the Tympani provides even more seamless bass integration.
I love my ML HT and I am sure you are loving the setup you have got.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Superior Audio

I want to have my setup in my signature, but can't find how to do that?:dontknow:
Anyway, have a pair of Preface with Encore TF as rears and I just adore the sound for HT use, and music is nothing short of incredible! Have a Denon 4310CI pushing them. Waiting on the new EM C2 center to be released as I am running 'phantom' presently. 

Mitsubishi 73733 DLP | Toshiba HD DVD-A35 | LG BD570 | Sony RDR-GX355 DVD Recorder | Denon AVR-4310CI | MartinLogan Preface mains | | MartinLogan Encore TF Surrounds | DIY Class 'G' 540w 12" Sub | APC H15 Power Conditioner | Harmony 550 Remote | 45 OTA Channels


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## Jungle Jack

Superior Audio said:


> I want to have my setup in my signature, but can't find how to do that?:dontknow:
> Anyway, have a pair of Preface with Encore TF as rears and I just adore the sound for HT use, and music is nothing short of incredible! Have a Denon 4310CI pushing them. Waiting on the new EM C2 center to be released as I am running 'phantom' presently.
> 
> Mitsubishi 73733 DLP | Toshiba HD DVD-A35 | LG BD570 | Sony RDR-GX355 DVD Recorder | Denon AVR-4310CI | MartinLogan Preface mains | | MartinLogan Encore TF Surrounds | DIY Class 'G' 540w 12" Sub | APC H15 Power Conditioner | Harmony 550 Remote | 45 OTA Channels


Hello,
For showing your HT, all you need to do is click on User CP and go to Edit Signature and you are set. So glad you are enjoying your Logans. I love mine as well. The new EM-ESL is a groundbreaking release for ML in that it offers both the Xstat Panel and Aluminum Air Frame that was previously only available on the 4300 Dollar Vista and Models up from there and are priced at $1995 for the pair.

They are so well priced that it might be worth considering at least Auditioning them as your Prefaces will still retain a good bit of their Resale Value and you would have Electrostatic ML's. The Electrostatic Models previously offered in the Design Series used the much older Gen.2 Panel and did not use the Aluminum Frame.

Truth be told, had they been available when I put my HT together, I would have used the EM-ESL's for Surrounds and saved almost 2000 Dollars. They sound great.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Superior Audio

That is so odd...I looked and the signature option wasn't available before...WEIRD!

Got the Preface on closeout and barely could afford those. Been out of work since '07 and money is tight. I will audition the EM ESL but the Preface can really belt out the sound. Plays HT @ reference level effortlessly. I think the S.O would kill me (she wasn't 'pleased' initially with these  ) spending 3x PLUS on another set and I still need a center. The Encore are fantastic as surrounds, not so much (in my opinion) for a center as the majority of audio sounds 'boxy'.

But when I win the lotto, I will be looking for a nice set of Prodigy, but I'm in no rush.


----------



## Sonnie

Congrats on the MartinLogans... I love these speakers and not sure how I managed without them for so long. The new Motions do look pretty interesting, especially at those prices.

Off-topic: On the signature bit... from the forum rules and the PM you got from me:

*Features (remember, these are ONLY available after you have 5 posts): *
-*Private Messaging*
-*Custom Avatar*
-*Profile Picture*
-*Custom Signature*
-*View Quick Links*
-*View Members List*
-*View Member Profiles*
-*View Who's Online*
-*Post External URLs*
-*Post External Links*
-*Use GoogleMapME*
-*Email Members*
-*Post in Classifieds*
-*View Only Image Gallery*​*Once you have 5 posts you will be able to fully participate at Home Theater Shack. *


----------



## TomDac

I've owned ML's since the late 80's - walked into a hi-fi store in San Diego and heard this unbelievable sound. I walked into the room where the sound was coming from and saw a pair of CLS's. WOW. Blew me away. Out of my price range, however, so I bought a pair of smaller Sequels. Kept them for 17 years, then finally upgraded to a bigger pair of MLs (reQuest).. then 2 years after that, sold the reQuests and bought a pair of Summits and could not be happier.

IMHO, once you hear that open, airy sound of electrostats, you'll never go back to conventional speakers. 

There are challenges with electrostats, but that is part of the fun of owning them! 

Tom.


----------



## Jibara

Years ago the misses and I walked into the Esoteric (big word for a Jibara) room at a Sound Advice and fell victim to the Siren song that is Martin Logan. It was a quarter century later before we would own any though.

I just unpacked the Summits this week after the move to our new home. They are waiting along with the Stage and 4 Script i(s) for the arrival of an AV7005 that is replacing a Bryston SP-2 that I sold during our "financial crisis".

They will all be powered by an Outlaw 7700 since I also had to sell a Simaudio Titan 5 and a pair of W7M(s) due to the aforementioned financial crisis.

"Sometime positive risk isn't very positive".

Regards and be well
Adrian


----------



## Sonnie

Welcome to the forum Adrian... and it sounds like you have one very nice system awaiting you. :T


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
The Summits are excellent and I really think you are going to love them.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Jibara

JJ


I've had the Summits for about 5 years they have just been boxed up while we collect ourselves. 

I like the Summits so much I already have replacement panels.

Thanks and be well.
Adrian


----------



## Jungle Jack

Jibara said:


> JJ
> 
> 
> I've had the Summits for about 5 years they have just been boxed up while we collect ourselves.
> 
> I like the Summits so much I already have replacement panels.
> 
> Thanks and be well.
> Adrian


Adrian,
I too have replacement panels for my Vantages that are sitting in a closet ready for whenever they are needed. Truth be told, it really might be some time before the new panels are needed as I vacuum the Vantages and Vistas once a month. So glad you have been able to get the Summits unboxed. Sorry for my confusion about them being new.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Jibara

Sounds good JJ.


----------



## Drakul

Has anyone tested the EM-FX2?
They seem to be a mixed breed of bipole/dipole from what I hear and I'm interested in maybe getting them for my 7.1


----------



## Ikarius

I haven't gotten the opportunity to listen to any FX2s, but I just put a pair of FXs into my system; I'm now running ML LX16 L/Rs, EM C2 center, and FX surrounds, and the ML speakers are pretty amazing. I need some more time playing with things before I'm prepared to go into much detail, but the FX surrounds look to be pretty much the same cabinet design as the FX2s, but with smaller (5.25") drivers and smaller HVFR tweeters.


----------



## xmaoo190

kurt said:


> How many other Martin Logan guys are on here? Just wondering and if so what are you running?
> 
> Heres my list-
> 
> Martin Logan Summits (fronts)
> Martin Logan Stage (center)
> Martin Logan Vistas (rears)
> :bigsmile:


Here's my setup:
Martin Logan Vantages up front
Martin Logan Motif in center
Martin Logan Depthi Sub

Considering adding 2 Martin Logan Helos 100's for rear and another set for surround...

Couldn't be happier. Although in Canada, people are very fond of Paradigm, and not to bash them, but I convert Paradigm supports every time I samples them at my house. Just saying.


----------



## Sonnie

I have used quite a few speakers in the past including dynamic, horns (Klipsch), hybrid ribbons (VMPS) and electrostats. I did not notice any significant difference until I listened to electrostats, which was a vast improvement to my ears. 

I haven't listened to Paradigm, and I know there are a LOT of very nice dynamic speakers out there that sound very good, but something tells me that I am not ever going to find a dynamic speaker that can match the sound of my electrostats. They are simply a different league of speaker. I am not saying that everyone will like them... but I sure can't imagine ever being without them myself.


----------



## Turbo Ron

Right now. CLX's, Stage center, and Motif's surrounds.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Turbo Ron said:


> Right now. CLX's, Stage center, and Motif's surrounds.


Very nice. The CLX's are excellent and I really have enjoyed my Stage CC. I think that is pretty cool you decided to go with Motifs for Surrounds. While indicated for use as Surrounds, most use it for a Center Channel. I am sure that is a wonderful sounding HT.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## NBPk402

I had a pair of Martin Logan Sequels for years. I loved them! I drove them with Classe DR10 mono amps with a DR6 preamp in the beginning and then moved to a Sunfire Theater Grand Pre/Processor with a pair of QSC 500 watt powers amps bi-amping them. They sounded the best I had ever heard them with those QSC amps too. It was a shame I had to sell off my old system.


----------



## Jungle Jack

ellisr63 said:


> I had a pair of Martin Logan Sequels for years. I loved them! I drove them with Classe DR10 mono amps with a DR6 preamp in the beginning and then moved to a Sunfire Theater Grand Pre/Processor with a pair of QSC 500 watt powers amps bi-amping them. They sounded the best I had ever heard them with those QSC amps too. It was a shame I had to sell off my old system.


That must have been a fantastic rig. Indeed the earlier ML's did sound their best when Biamped. Now, it is not even possible as the woofers are now active. They use Bang & Olefsen ICEPower Modules with the exception of the CLX. At least what were traditionally considered Martin Logans. Electostatic Panels.


----------



## Sonnie

Well they would essentially be bi-amped... the amp on the woofer and the amp you provide for the mid/upper level. I was very impressed with the Spires, although there is something (possibly psychological) that makes me think my larger Prodigy's sound bigger and better, which they are bigger. :huh:

I cannot imagine going back to dynamic speakers... I just cannot imagine it. I think I would just as soon not even have a home theater as to be without my stats. :nerd:


----------



## NBPk402

Sonnie said:


> Well they would essentially be bi-amped... the amp on the woofer and the amp you provide for the mid/upper level. I was very impressed with the Spires, although there is something (possibly psychological) that makes me think my larger Prodigy's sound bigger and better, which they are bigger. :huh:
> 
> I cannot imagine going back to dynamic speakers... I just cannot imagine it. I think I would just as soon not even have a home theater as to be without my stats. :nerd:


I wish I still had the MLs but it looks like I will be using my Paradigm Studio 80s for a long time to come as I have no funding at all to upgrade.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Sonnie said:


> Well they would essentially be bi-amped... the amp on the woofer and the amp you provide for the mid/upper level. I was very impressed with the Spires, although there is something (possibly psychological) that makes me think my larger Prodigy's sound bigger and better, which they are bigger. :huh:
> 
> I cannot imagine going back to dynamic speakers... I just cannot imagine it. I think I would just as soon not even have a home theater as to be without my stats. :nerd:


Hello,
While it is claimed the Xstat Panel provides similar SQ with a much smaller panel size, I believe more and more there is no replacement for displacement. I am quite happy with my relatively current ML's, but my brother uses dual Ascent i's for Mains and Surrounds and I am often left wanting to go back a generation. 

Also, I should have pointed out that the Vista's do not use Active Woofers and can be Biamped. Pretty sad as I literally sit 5 feet away from a pair that I use for Surrounds. As I got them about a year after the Vantages/Stage, I only think of them as Surrounds. And indeed the others are Biamped, but I do like the option of using 2 beasts for the Mains. Also, if the ICEPower Modules go bad, it adds far more complexity.
J


----------



## CALWIRE

Hey All,

I've got the MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL, C2, FX2 5.1 set up. Im using a Pioneer Elite SC-57 receiver to power them. Is that enough power or do I need separate amps?

Thanks

Jay


----------



## SubSolar

Heres my new gloss black Theos:


----------



## beek

SubSolar said:


> Heres my new gloss black Theos:


very foxy


----------



## Sonnie

Nice... and I bet those Adele vocals are sweet. :T


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Sometimes I take for granted just how attractive ML speakers are and I look at them sometimes 12 hours a day. Youre Theos look great in black given the coloring in the room.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## SubSolar

Thanks! I'll hopefully be moving into a bigger place in a couple of months. Plan to pair them with a Seaton Submersive F2 and possibly an amp such as an Emotiva XPR-5 if needed.


----------



## DaveCarrera4S

On a budget, so I took the plunge on Motion 12's as fronts in my 9.3 setup. They were on sale for $450 shipped, so it seemed I couldn't pass the deal up. I'm sure the owners here of expensive ML's are thinking these are just a mini me version of theirs. But for a budget system, I couldn't be more pleased. The folded tweeter is amazing, as I've lost higher registers, it really helps to hear this range.


----------



## Jungle Jack

DaveCarrera4S said:


> On a budget, so I took the plunge on Motion 12's as fronts in my 9.3 setup. They were on sale for $450 shipped, so it seemed I couldn't pass the deal up. I'm sure the owners here of expensive ML's are thinking these are just a mini me version of theirs. But for a budget system, I couldn't be more pleased. The folded tweeter is amazing, as I've lost higher registers, it really helps to hear this range.


Hello,
That is an awesome deal you got on the Motion 12's. I really am quite impressed with the Motion Tweeter myself. The tweeter is an Oskar Heil design whose patent expired. 
Best,
Jack


----------



## DaveCarrera4S

Aha, didn't know that. It's probably buried in this or another thread somewhere, but what is the other speaker company that owns ML? I believe it was Paradigm, but I could be mistaken.


----------



## Jungle Jack

DaveCarrera4S said:


> Aha, didn't know that. It's probably buried in this or another thread somewhere, but what is the other speaker company that owns ML? I believe it was Paradigm, but I could be mistaken.


ShoreView Industries is the owner of both Paradigm and Martin Logan these days. They are a private equity firm. In addition, ShoreView owns Anthem as well.
While I am still somewhat bummed that ML's ESL speakers are no longer made in Kansas, moving manufacturing to Canada is not too difficult of a pill to swallow.


----------



## DaveCarrera4S

This is very interesting. Need to google that further.

Most people in Canada consider themselves the 51st state (or so they've told me) ;-)


----------



## AU26

MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL (Front), Wharfedale Valdus center 100, Wharfedale Vadus 100 (Surround)
and SVS SB-1000 (12'' Sub).


----------



## arkiedan

DaveCarrera4S said:


> On a budget, so I took the plunge on Motion 12's as fronts in my 9.3 setup. They were on sale for $450 shipped, so it seemed I couldn't pass the deal up. I'm sure the owners here of expensive ML's are thinking these are just a mini me version of theirs. But for a budget system, I couldn't be more pleased. The folded tweeter is amazing, as I've lost higher registers, it really helps to hear this range.


Yeah, I got the 12s about four weeks ago. Got 'em for $400 but I had to drive to Huntsville, AL, to pick them up. :yikes: I came from Ascend Sierra monitors, certainly no slouches themselves, but these 12s are terrific. For music I run them 2.1 and the imaging and soundstage are amazing. I do have the luxury of pulling them far out into the room, playing with position and toe, and that really opened them up.

And I agree, I do feel like Martin Logan's poor cousin with all these high-end electrostatics around here. :sad:

lddude: old arkiedan lddude:


----------



## zibawal

need suggestion
can I use mottif for LCR and electro motion for surround?


----------



## zibawal

DaveCarrera4S said:


> On a budget, so I took the plunge on Motion 12's as fronts in my 9.3 setup. They were on sale for $450 shipped, so it seemed I couldn't pass the deal up. I'm sure the owners here of expensive ML's are thinking these are just a mini me version of theirs. But for a budget system, I couldn't be more pleased. The folded tweeter is amazing, as I've lost higher registers, it really helps to hear this range.


where?


----------



## AudiocRaver

arkiedan said:


> ...For music I run them 2.1 and the imaging and soundstage are amazing. I do have the luxury of pulling them far out into the room, playing with position and toe, and that really opened them up.
> 
> And I agree, I do feel like Martin Logan's poor cousin with all these high-end electrostatics around here...


The Motion 12's are a fantastic speaker. STAND PROUD!:clap:

Sounds like you are doing the right things to get the best out of them.


----------



## mdbrown

New owner. Just bought a pair of mint Motion 12s. Purchased a Motion 8 for the center and a pair of Motion 2s for surrounds. Was all set to purchase Chane speakers when I stumbled across the Motion 12s. I saved about $400 by opting for the Martin Logans. Now is the bad part... waiting for them to show up.


----------



## AudiocRaver

Prepare to:

spend some time getting them set up to sound their best.
fall deeply in love with them
Can't wait to hear your impressions.


----------



## Tonto

AudiocRaver said:


> Prepare to:
> 
> spend some time getting them set up to sound their best.
> fall deeply in love with them
> Can't wait to hear your impressions.


+1 :T


----------



## Turbo Ron

Turbo Ron said:


> I have the Martin Logan Summits front right and left, and using a McIntosh 402 amp, 400wpc. Center speaker Martin Logan Stage, and Martin Logan Motif surrounds using a McIntosh 205, 200wpc to power the center and surrounds speakers.


Things have changed. CLX 25th Anniversary, McIntosh two McIntosh 601's mono blocks 600wpc for the front right and left speakers and a McIntosh MC303 3 channel amp 300 wpc for the center Stage speaker and the Motif surrounds. One JL 113 sub.


----------



## AU26

Welcome to MartrinLogan Nut Club.
Don't take your gloves off or you will start chewing your nails while waiting.

If this is your first ML experience we will like to hear your comments.

All the best from Australia (Summer time all year around)


----------



## zibawal

Would ML motion one timbre match with my front Encore TF 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## |Tch0rT|

zibawal said:


> Would ML motion one timbre match with my front Encore TF


None of the ML Motion lines would match the Encore TF. They use different tweeters. However they might be fine but the ones that would match the Encore TF are all discontinued like Montage, Mosaic, Passage, Vignette, and Preface.


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## zibawal

Where can I find one of those on wall or on stand solution?0


----------



## |Tch0rT|

zibawal said:


> Where can I find one of those on wall or on stand solution?0


Ebay, Audiogon, US Audio Mart, Canuk Audio Mart, Craigslist, or maybe the Classifieds here or AVSforum.


----------



## mdbrown

Curious, Motion 12 vs Motion 20 vs Motion LX16

How big of a difference in sound quality between these three? Assuming a typical room (12x17 in this case) and a good subwoofer. Listening will basically be a 6' triangle (6' between speakers and 6' to listener) all being driven with a Marantz SR-7008.

Long story short, because of circumstances beyond my control, I will be choosing amongst those three models. If prices is not a factor... which?


----------



## rab-byte

Motion 12&20 should be close to the same your big difference will be woofer material. Both should get lower than the LX16 which is the same speaker as the motion 15 but with a very slightly different cabinet.


----------



## mdbrown

rab-byte said:


> Motion 12&20 should be close to the same your big difference will be woofer material. Both should get lower than the LX16 which is the same speaker as the motion 15 but with a very slightly different cabinet.


Used in conjunction with an SVS SB-1000 should the LX16 be similar in sound quality? Whatever I get will be mated up with a Motion 8 center channel and Motion 2 surrounds.


----------



## chris0228

mdbrown said:


> Used in conjunction with an SVS SB-1000 should the LX16 be similar in sound quality? Whatever I get will be mated up with a Motion 8 center channel and Motion 2 surrounds.


If I were you, I'd use REW and spend some time dialing in the crossover freq such that the sub disappears and you should be just fine with that setup. I didn't look back, what AVR are you using?


----------



## mdbrown

chris0228 said:


> If I were you, I'd use REW and spend some time dialing in the crossover freq such that the sub disappears and you should be just fine with that setup. I didn't look back, what AVR are you using?




Sorry, all being driven by a Marantz SR-7008.


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## chris0228

mdbrown said:


> Sorry, all being driven by a Marantz SR-7008.


So you'll have some good acoustic correction tools built in that will help integrate those speakers. I think you're good to go my friend; you should end up very happy with that setup for your needs.


----------



## zibawal

|Tch0rT| said:


> Ebay, Audiogon, US Audio Mart, Canuk Audio Mart, Craigslist, or maybe the Classifieds here or AVSforum.



No luck so far. 
Btw some one suggested to use motion 15 on wall or on stands. Any opinion?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Blacklightning

mdbrown said:


> Curious, Motion 12 vs Motion 20 vs Motion LX16
> 
> How big of a difference in sound quality between these three? Assuming a typical room (12x17 in this case) and a good subwoofer. Listening will basically be a 6' triangle (6' between speakers and 6' to listener) all being driven with a Marantz SR-7008.
> 
> Long story short, because of circumstances beyond my control, I will be choosing amongst those three models. If prices is not a factor... which?


Also know that the Motion 12 has a dipole midrange so if you are able to get the speakers out into the room then I would pick the 12's hands down but I would pick the motion 20's if you had them near a wall or two.


----------



## |Tch0rT|

zibawal said:


> No luck so far.
> Btw some one suggested to use motion 15 on wall or on stands. Any opinion?


Those older ML's that match your Encore TF don't come up too often anymore it seems.

I have the LX16 which is pretty much the same as the Motion 15 (cabinet is slightly different) and it's a great, it's a much better speaker than the Encore TF (I used to use one for a center btw).


----------



## zibawal

Would u link me to LX16s


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## |Tch0rT|

zibawal said:


> Would u link me to LX16s


https://www.martinlogan.com/motionSeries/models/motion-lx16.php

Looks like you can still buy a pair:

http://www.amazon.com/MartinLogan-LX16-Piano-Bookshelf-Speaker/dp/B0061LG5H4

http://wwv.crutchfield.com/p_839MLX16GB/MartinLogan-Motion-LX16.html


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## zibawal

Many thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## mdbrown

Well... my setup is finally somewhat stable. For those interested I purchased a pair of Motion 12s, a Motion 8 center, Motion 2 surrounds and an SVS SB1000 all running off a Marantz SR-7008. When the Motion 12s arrived one was snapped in half. Long story short I ended up with 1 mint condition Motion 12 and, thus far, cannot locate a mate for it. So... I purchased a pair of Motion LX16s and am currently using them as my L/R mains. They sound nice but I can't help but wonder... would the 12s have sounded better or would 20s sound better yet?

Speakers are approx. 7' apart and, coincidentally, seating is approx. 7' from the speakers. As nice as the 16s sound, in such a compressed space would towers (Motion 20s?) sound much better??


----------



## AudiocRaver

mdbrown said:


> When the Motion 12s arrived one was snapped in half...


Oouch! Duct tape? Epoxy?


----------



## mdbrown

AudiocRaver said:


> Oouch! Duct tape? Epoxy?


Nah, he made a shipping claim via Fedex. I suspect it was shipped that way though as the box was not damaged at all. In any event he refunded 50% of my money. Nice but... do you have any idea just how rare a single Motion 12 for sale is?


----------



## mdbrown

Well, my tortured path to Martin Logan goodness has finally finished. A quick recap: I ordered a pair of mint Motion 12 speakers for an upgrade. Purchase a Motion 8 center and a pair of Motion 2s for surrounds. All was good until the Motion 12s showed up. One was indeed mint the other, broken in half. The seller refunded me the price of the broken speaker but left me with a single Motion 12. Finding a second Motion 12 proved impossible. I purchased a pair of lightly used Motion LX16s to use until I figured out what to do. I thought I had found one on Amazon and ordered it - the seller wanted only to sell in pairs. At this point I was about resigned to having a single Motion 12 in the attic and a pair of LX16s as my mains.

This is when IQ Home Entertainment stepped in and exceeded all my expectations. They where the vendor selling on Amazon that did not want to break up the pair of new Motion 12s they were selling. Sean is the individual I ended up working with. He told me they would see if Martin Logan had any Motion 12s available. Turns out they didn't so they sold me a display pair at a rock bottom price and they looked brand new when they arrived. While I still have that single Motion 12 in the attic I finally have Motion 12s as my mains.

I loved the sound of the LX16s, I expected a bit of an improvement with the Motion 12s but nothing major as I was using an SVS sub. The difference is much bigger than I anticipated, I can only assume having a real 5.25" mid-range and the pair of 6.5" woofers is the difference - the Motion 12s sound warmer and fuller than the LX16. Still crystal clear with an awesome soundstage but a more full sound. Having already heard details in my concert blu-rays that i didn't know was there - it's going to be a binge watch with the 12s setup. Very, very happy with these speakers!


----------



## 480dad

Happy to hear it all worked out well for you. Broken in half...and no box damage...go figure....


----------



## NBPk402

mdbrown said:


> Well, my tortured path to Martin Logan goodness has finally finished. A quick recap: I ordered a pair of mint Motion 12 speakers for an upgrade. Purchase a Motion 8 center and a pair of Motion 2s for surrounds. All was good until the Motion 12s showed up. One was indeed mint the other, broken in half. The seller refunded me the price of the broken speaker but left me with a single Motion 12. Finding a second Motion 12 proved impossible. I purchased a pair of lightly used Motion LX16s to use until I figured out what to do. I thought I had found one on Amazon and ordered it - the seller wanted only to sell in pairs. At this point I was about resigned to having a single Motion 12 in the attic and a pair of LX16s as my mains.
> 
> This is when IQ Home Entertainment stepped in and exceeded all my expectations. They where the vendor selling on Amazon that did not want to break up the pair of new Motion 12s they were selling. Sean is the individual I ended up working with. He told me they would see if Martin Logan had any Motion 12s available. Turns out they didn't so they sold me a display pair at a rock bottom price and they looked brand new when they arrived. While I still have that single Motion 12 in the attic I finally have Motion 12s as my mains.
> 
> I loved the sound of the LX16s, I expected a bit of an improvement with the Motion 12s but nothing major as I was using an SVS sub. The difference is much bigger than I anticipated, I can only assume having a real 5.25" mid-range and the pair of 6.5" woofers is the difference - the Motion 12s sound warmer and fuller than the LX16. Still crystal clear with an awesome soundstage but a more full sound. Having already heard details in my concert blu-rays that i didn't know was there - it's going to be a binge watch with the 12s setup. Very, very happy with these speakers!


Why not use the single as a center, and sell your 8?:T:T


----------



## mdbrown

ellisr63 said:


> Why not use the single as a center, and sell your 8?:T:T


Nice idea but not practical for me. I live in a small house built in 1941. The living room is the only room for the TV setup and it is awful. Too small and well lit for a projector (so no audio transparent screen with the speaker behind it). I'd love to use that Motion 12 but no way to integrate it into my small room.


----------



## AudiocRaver

A real shame. Guess if it was me, I would hang onto it hoping another stray will show up. Pretty anti-climactic, though, after making a purchase and getting all excited.


----------



## NBPk402

mdbrown said:


> Nice idea but not practical for me. I live in a small house built in 1941. The living room is the only room for the TV setup and it is awful. Too small and well lit for a projector (so no audio transparent screen with the speaker behind it). I'd love to use that Motion 12 but no way to integrate it into my small room.


You could use the single 12 as a rear channel.


----------



## mdbrown

ellisr63 said:


> You could use the single 12 as a rear channel.


Nice idea but not possible in the house I live in. The room ix 12x17 with the TV being along the longer wall so only 12 feet max distance. Figure in a few feet away from the wall for cables and room for the dipole midrange and then the couch is back up against a radiator which takes another foot or so and I'm as compressed as it is. I have zero room behind the couch. To the left of the couch is the fireplace and to the right is the front door so no real way to re-arrange. I'll probably put the 12 up for sale here shortly, hate the thought of such a capable speaker in mint condition wasting away in my attic.


----------



## AudiocRaver

I just can not help myself. Every time I complete a speaker review, I hook my beloved MartinLogan EM-ESL pair back up and sit down to listen for awhile and hear what I have been missing for the previous few weeks. I did so again last night and was _knocked out_ by that effortless, super-transparent high end we all take for granted with our electrostatics. Wow! AWESOME!!!


----------



## beek

O yes a good friend of mine has a pair the best deal on wheels

Bill
Vista owner


----------



## Locoweed

Fronts are EM-ESL's with Motif-X center.


----------



## AU26

I red somewhere that EM-ESL needs to be fed 250W of power to show it's full sound colours!?
This is 300W max rated speakers with 91db Sensitivity and it is hard to believe that it needs to be driven almost to the max for it's best performance. Have pair of EM-ESL complemented by EM-C2 Center and 
ML Dynamo 700W sub, all driven by Yamaha RX-A1030 (110W/8Ohms per channel) and listening room is not small but 250W will be unbearable. It is unique airy sound they produce that got me.


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## AudiocRaver

AU26 said:


> I red somewhere that EM-ESL needs to be fed 250W of power to show it's full sound colours!?
> This is 300W max rated speakers with 91db Sensitivity and it is hard to believe that it needs to be driven almost to the max for it's best performance. Have pair of EM-ESL complemented by EM-C2 Center and
> ML Dynamo 700W sub, all driven by Yamaha RX-A1030 (110W/8Ohms per channel) and listening room is not small but 250W will be unbearable. It is unique airy sound they produce that got me.


This is often said by those who like to push the limits. I have heard ESLs in my room with a medium-powered AVR, like yours, and I am perfectly happy with the sound using my AVR. I have also heard ESLs in a bigger room with a big Parasound power amp and it is true that you can push them harder without that feeling that they are "holding back" if they have more power available. If your setup allows you to enjoy their sound without feeling that you are missing something (i.e. volume limitations), then you have plenty of power.


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## tesseract

If you can push the MLs, do it. Like any reference grade speaker, they love the extra boost, be it at low volumes or high.

Yes, the EM-ESL is reference grade, in my opinion.


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## AU26

Would you say that there is a gap in presentation between EM-ESL and conventional speakers and that gap is responsible for you to be able to hear, and appreciate, on instant their differences?
Just received some Pure Blu-Ray music discs from Norway from company called 2L and for the first time will have a chance to compare same musical content coming from CD format (2.0 LPCM 24/192kHz) 
and Blu-Ray (5.1 DTS HD MA 24/192kHz). Good testing time.
Cheers from wintery Australia


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## AudiocRaver

AU26 said:


> Would you say that there is a gap in presentation between EM-ESL and conventional speakers and that gap is responsible for you to be able to hear, and appreciate, on instant their differences?
> Just received some Pure Blu-Ray music discs from Norway from company called 2L and for the first time will have a chance to compare same musical content coming from CD format (2.0 LPCM 24/192kHz)
> and Blu-Ray (5.1 DTS HD MA 24/192kHz). Good testing time.
> Cheers from wintery Australia


Yes. I experience that almost every time I go back to my EM-ESL from other speakers I review, which I will typically listen to for several weeks. That extra degree of transparency and effortlessness of presentation from a panel-type speaker can be striking.


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## uilleann

Hey gang,

First posting to HTS as a newly minted Martin Logan Motion 15 owner. These speakers came home after an initial foray to the local BB store in the hopes of simply replacing my 7 year old Creative T3100 2.1 silliness. I went in hoping to spend no more than the 'absurd' amount of _maybe_ a couple hundred bucks. And walked out of the Magnolia department about a grand lighter in the pocket book! A friend of mine had suggested I look at Energy's latest. And, of course, while back in the special room listening to the finest pieces in the store, one can't pass up Bowers and Wilkins and Focal as well.

After I explained to the sales guy what I was hoping to do, and what sort of budget I had hoped to stick to, he got a sort of funny look in his eye, paused, and asked if I knew much about Martin Logan. To which I mentioned I think I remembered them to be "the crazy expensive 'clear' speakers...right?" Thankfully, the gentleman was kind, and forgave my blatant ignorance.

I knew just a little about ES panels, and remembered seeing them made on a TV program some time back. But of course, a massive, four foot tall panel with attached bass drier was not going to fit well on top of the computer desk. At which point, he told me to pick a favorite tune (he has sync'ed my phone via Bluetooth to one of the better AVRs already), close my eyes momentarily, and just listen. I cue'd up a favorite track of a folksy/rock/blues artist, and took a seat - perhaps a bit overconfident in what I would hear as this wasn't my first time back in the listening room.

My. Mind. Was. Blown.

It felt immediately as though the singer and his guitar were standing about 8 feet in front of me, with his small three piece band arranged in their familiar tight stage positions (having seen them play several times live). Never before had I experienced that level of complete transparency, wide and deep staging, and resolution I honestly never remembered hearing before. After getting over my initial shock, I reminded the salesman that as nice as they were, those big panel speakers, or any other tall floor stander was just not an option. He laughed, and said he actually heard that quite a bit - then pointed to the little Motion 15's, politely sitting on the ends of a small shelf stand at the far end of the room.

I actually didn't believe him that the amount and quality of sound was possibly coming out of those two little things. So I quickly punched up another track (Pink Floyd Division Bell I think it was), turned up the volume another notch and walked over to inspect the speakers more closely. Sure enough - they were the real deal. I think we spent a good hour going through literally every single bookie they had in the showroom,and a good number of the big floor standers as well. And in _every_ case, I kept coming back to the little Motion 15s.

As an interesting aside, I asked to demo the bookshelf models against the larger ES panels they had from Martin Logan as well. And even though they were louder, to my own admittedly untrained ear, they didn't sound any better in terms of clarity, transparency, transient speed and control, or general musicality. Not that they were in any way bad - just not audibly different to my ear. I still don't know or understand how their engineers have packed so much, int such a small package.

Needing something to drive them with (the old Creative's were of course self powered with something like a massive 5 watts per speaker and an overly generous 15 for the sub I think), I also brought home one of Polk Audio's new Play-Fi devices, and Omni A1 wireless amplifier. It doesn't win any points for style, looking more like a late 1990's router or modem than a sleek new amp - but it is small, portable, and gets the job done well for my needs. 

As a fun aside, the speakers are small enough, and the amp easy enough to move, that I've been able to take them out to the backyard, and listen to my entire music collection while enjoying a fire in the fire pit, and enjoying a glass of wine under the stars. And while the bedroom (or the backyard for that matter) aren't optimized and ideal listening environments, these little speakers are absolutely stunning in their musical prowess. I look forward to enjoying them for a good many years to come.

Cheers

Brian~


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## AudiocRaver

Welcome to HiFidelity. Ain't no going back.


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## uilleann

AudiocRaver said:


> Welcome to HiFidelity. Ain't no going back.


Its a pretty amazing jump from where I was before to be sure. Now to convince the wife we need all ML for the 'big' system and HT in the front of the house...


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## daniel

daniel said:


> I'm going to buy Martin Logan Vantage next spring. If I had more money I would buy the Summit but I would be surprised if I have that kind of money.
> 
> Unless I find a used pair.


Update: add a pair of passage ( back) and dynamo 700 ( sub) and every thing is quite amazing!!!

(Yes I did buy the Vantage.)


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## beek

Vista owner here with SVS cylinders for subs powered by Crown XLS 2500
Bel Canto on the stats
Benchmark Pre/D-A :wave:


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## KevinJSteward

Running a pair of Motion 20s. Although they are part of a 7.1 system, I often run the amplifier in Pure Direct mode. 

Eventually, I intend to replace all of my speakers with Motion series; probably a 30 in the center and a couple pairs of 15s in the surround and rear.


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## KevinJSteward

Just added a pair of Motion 40s to my system.

Placebo effect, probably, but...WOW! I'm impressed.


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## KevinJSteward

...and in quick succession, a pair of Theos electrostats.

System is now looking quite healthy with the Theos occupying the front end, Motion 40s in surround and Motion 20s in rear surround.

Need to get rid of a few non-ML speakers to generate some cash, so I can shoot for a ML centre. Seriously exploring the idea of a Motif X, as and when funds allow.


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