# Doug's Family Room HT discussion/build



## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I am nearing my "project of the year," where we fully remodel one room of our home to take it from 1975 to the present. This year our main family room is up to bat. This is the entertaining area on the main floor of our home where we currently watch movies, entertain guests, drink coffee and listen to music, have general family time. I am a fireman working a 24-hour shift on, 48-hours off, so I have an hour or so every day after coming home from work in the morning when my wife goes to work and my daughter goes to school that I decompress and relax, listening to music and drinking coffee. This is one of my favorite things - music is my passion, after family of course! I am putting all of my irons in this fire as far as audio goes for this room, so I want it to be as good as I can get without it looking as such. It won't look like a movie theater, it has to look like a "normal" room. Equipment will be housed in an in-wall rack.

Equipment:
Onkyo 818 a/v receiver
DIY mains and surrounds for 7.1
2 ceiling-mount Gjallarhorn horn subs with LMSU 5400
Sanway fp14000 sub amp
Vizeo 60 LCD

The main goals and needs for this room are:
1) WAF
2) excellent sound with 7.1 spacing with "stealth" integration
3) hardwood floors

I used to remodel homes on my days off focusing on finish work and tile, so I will be doing most of the work myself. Some hurdles I need to overcome are:

1) reflections from the new hardwoods
2) vaulted ceilings
3) large bass-traps, diffusers, ect. are not wife approved
4) multiple openings into the room.
5) rattles 
6) cost


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Soundproofing?

I am learning about using the channel system with two layers of drywall and green glue for at least the wall and ceiling side of the room with the subs to help with vibrations. I wonder if this is necessary for the rest of the room if I use Green glue on the studs and drywall only. Most of the vibrations from LFE now are from the kitchen in the next room. I am leaning toward green glue and two sheets of 5/8 drywall for the whole room since this is not an enclosed "dedicated" HT. Or would one layer be enough for a multipurpose room? *Is there any point of the green glue route with all of the open doorways?* This would be at least $500-1000 just for the glue, not to mention the cost for the extra layer of drywall, and effort and time on my part.

I am considering soffits with some pink fluffy at the peak of the vault and at the intersection of the vault and walls on the sides. I don't currently have any issues with booming since the room currently has issues pressurizing with bass with all of the openings, thus my use of the giant Ghallarhorns. The horns are very heavy and don't have much vibration on the cabinet. I need to somehow treat where they rest on the ceiling joists and vent into the room. I also need to find a way to make that transition look nice.

Long, heavy drapes for the windows by the fireplace.

R13 in the walls
R19 in the ceiling
Caulk the outlets
line ductwork
backer-box the can lights

I found several installation ideas at soundproofingcompany.com for backer-boxes, etc.

I could use art panels for reflections if I can find somewhere to custom print the fabric. My wife was interested in this idea when talking design. I am early in the game learning about the use of room treatments, and realize that these are a very important part of the equation.


All of this 3/4" oak paneling will be removed and saved for cabinetry for another project. Cedar beams also removed and shipped back to the 70s.










Considering using this as the screen wall instead of the position shown above


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

1975 that was a good year. Looks like your gonna have some fun. Can't wait to see how it all turns out good Luck.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Doug,

With all the openings, I think doing all the extra soundproofing work might not provide much benefit. The room will only be as isolated as its weakest point. 

As far as the hardwood floors, I have seen some people use large rugs to tame the reflections.

Check out GIK Acoustics website - I know they have many versions of treatment that have designs to make them more WAF friendly.

Any other questions I can help with, fire away - and subscribed! Looking forward to following along....


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I agree Joe. I have spent the last 6 hours reading about the soundproofing of the walls in HT builds, and think that it might be done in vain with the 3 large openings. Every room I find where it is used is completely enclosed. The other options I mentioned are still on the table. See, I can already add another $1500 to the budget for my LCR from what I saved, right?

A large area rug will be used in front of the seating area. Should help with the 1st floor reflections.

We are also talking about blowing out the wall to the kitchen to open it up more. There would be a bar height counter on the living room side and stove top counter on the other side in the kitchen area. The screen would move to the wall on the left. Left and right, and rear surrounds could be placed perfectly - which is and issue with my current configuration. The front mains would be tricky though since one would be in the doorway to the left of the screen.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

What about dropping a screen down from the vaulted ceiling? That way, you could locate you mains a bit closer and not have to worry about the opening. I am pretty certain Luther did something along those lines.


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

I'm in agreement with the sound proofing. those are just like my house with multiple openings to other rooms that can't be sealed. you'd get minimal gains for your efforts

as for the hardwood floor, an area rug CAN do some good, but usually you want 2 inches thick MINIMUM to cancel out any reflections in the lower frequencies


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Good idea with the screen, but we will be using the PJ for the dedicated HT in the basement for next year's project. This is also the morning cartoons room and Sunday football room, so the windows are always open during the day. A PJ in addition to the LCD would be cool and best, but I wouldn't be able to upgrade the LCR and surrounds to stay in budget.

Some groovy 2-3" shag carpet perhaps?


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

The den is our home theater room. Here is an old picture that gives you an idea of the layout. The wall to the right has a 72" walk through, the the left of the fireplace are double french doors and the rear wall has a small 3' wall just off center. To the left of that is a hall into the formal dining room and to the right it is open to the kitchen/breakfast nook. So, not the best room for a home theater but we have made it work. You can see the current setup in the Onkyo TX-NR929 review. You will notice a much larger area rug that does wonders for reflections from the big horns.










You should be able to do just fine with your layout. Just put a lot of thought into speaker placement and seating position(s). In ceiling speakers will work well for your surrounds in a vaulted ceiling. Placement dictated by where you sit. They essentially crossfire your position. The area rug is a must for the hardwood floors.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

They are very similar - not the best rooms for the HT, but like yours, not just a theater. The end result is an enjoyable space for many things.

Look at this photo for a sec - The 60" LCD goes right in the middle. The ideal place for a 22-30 degree placement for L and R mains are in the corners, but the one on the left would be in the doorway. If I bring it closer to the seating, the angle gets close to 45 degrees to the MLP. If I place them above the top corners, they will be right in the mouth of the subs. Any ideas, pros, cons?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Doug,

Not sure how your family is, but other than me, no one else in my family cared about sound as much as I did. So, I optimized my setup for my main seat and did not worry too much about the rest. So, bringing in the mains will reduce your soundstage, but I think if you are in the same boat as I was, it should be fine for your MLP and the rest of your family would just be in awe of the picture and surround.

Plus, every project has its concessions - I would just go as wide as you can without blocking the door and go from there.

Just my .02...


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Same for us too. The family enjoys movies, but not as critical on the sound. My hope is to get a 4' wide sweet spot at 11-12 feet back to the couch from the screen. This morning my wife was not thrilled about any speakers in the doorway when I mentioned this placement. She said put them in the upper corners. There is a SEOS design called the TUX-1099 that has horizontal configurations for a wmmtw that is designed for LCR and has a 40 degree horizontal coverage and more narrow vertical, but I could aim them at the LP. There is also a tm design for surrounds. I would have to control reflections on the side walls somehow. I really have my heart set on Statements LCR and the Lineup D4 for surrounds or a 12" SEOS and DNA-360 with AE TD12x for LCR.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Statement LCR would be a phenomenal front stage! I can only imagine the big, clear sound you would get from that setup. I hope it works out and you can go that way.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

If I use the wall on post #10, which I am 99% sure I am, the Statements wouldn't have a wall behind them on the left side to reflect that awesome mid. They would also be too close to the side walls I think. I want to build a set so bad though...


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

My side surrounds are going to have to be over 10' high for the current design. Still undecided on the speakers. Would an in wall be too far off-axis, or am I going to need to build a box and aim then at the LP?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I re-ran Room Sim in REW and there is a huge null with the new room configuration that I didn't have with the other room configuration. I can't seem to get a screen-shot so I have a poor iPhone photo here.





This is with my current configuration


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## sgkent (Aug 19, 2012)

Wardsweb said:


> The den is our home theater room. Here is an old picture that gives you an idea of the layout. The wall to the right has a 72" walk through, the the left of the fireplace are double french doors and the rear wall has a small 3' wall just off center. To the left of that is a hall into the formal dining room and to the right it is open to the kitchen/breakfast nook. So, not the best room for a home theater but we have made it work. You can see the current setup in the Onkyo TX-NR929 review. You will notice a much larger area rug that does wonders for reflections from the big horns.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not hijacking thread just looking for some solutions ideas to convert a similar room. Can someone post a link to any threads they know of that cover audio component stands that more or less holds as much equipment as the one in this photo? I've shopped local stores and everything is 3 to 4 components and I don't see how that is possible unless we simply abandon all the old technologies and memories that go with them. I suspect this issue comes up a lot and in our case we can't build a closet for them - the house is already way too small. I suspect that the OP in this thread will have a similar issue as he brings the room up to modern technology.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Look at the bottom photo in the 2nd post and you will see my equipment rack that holds everything and doesn't take up much floor space. Holds 3 pro amps, avr, bd player, cable box, power conditioner, and router boxes. Found it at Nebraska Furniture Mart.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dougc said:


> My side surrounds are going to have to be over 10' high for the current design. Still undecided on the speakers. Would an in wall be too far off-axis, or am I going to need to build a box and aim then at the LP?


Not an expert on this one, but I am thinking the building a box route might be the best way to go. I run a 7. system, and I tend to lose the back two channels due to location and where I sit. I would be concerned about that happening with the side surrounds here.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

They will be in boxes any way it happens, and you are right Joe, they will need to be aimed. Even if I go with a waveguide, I would have to put it on it's side and lose quite a bit of axis for the rest of the seats. I am thinking of building a soffit around the room to break up the height, so I could put the surrounds above, below if they fit, or in if I can build a big it big enough to aim the speakers at the opposite seats. In-soffit would be great since I could hide them with a screen. WAF factor is good there too. Either way I look at it, they will need to be angled toward the seating. The height would be a minimum of 9' so they would be at over a 45 degree angle on the sides.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The current seating plan is in place after we did some staging with furniture. Modal areas got funky in REW, but I am going to try to make it work since it is the only way I can open up the wall to the kitchen to build the island between the kitchen and living room. This is the best I could get with room modes, the least amount of deep valleys. One sub in the corner and the 2nd goes in the 1/4 space to the left. I will need some eq to flatten this out obviously while maintaining a nice house curve. The massive G-horns will have plenty of oomph left over after -gain goes to the peaks. 60 and 90 hz is where other G-horn owners claim to lose some steam and are making up with other massive horns for 60hz and up. 






These are measurements of a single G-horn at my proposed areas that actually turned out better than I thought with the LP not being in the ideal place in the room. Of course I won't find out how the subs actually do together until they get up to the attic. At that point I can move them around to find the actual best position. I placed the horn mouth at the LP and the measurements were taken at the center point of where the horn mouth would be in the proposed positions at the ceiling.


Measurements with CSL UMIK 14-120hz and no EQ

Green - left upper corner
Red - 1/4 space to the left on the side wall
Purple - current LP with the sub on the side wall to the left
Blue - 1m ground measurement of Gjallarhorn in the middle of the room


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dougc said:


> They will be in boxes any way it happens, and you are right Joe, they will need to be aimed. Even if I go with a waveguide, I would have to put it on it's side and lose quite a bit of axis for the rest of the seats. I am thinking of building a soffit around the room to break up the height, so I could put the surrounds above, below if they fit, or in if I can build a big it big enough to aim the speakers at the opposite seats. In-soffit would be great since I could hide them with a screen. WAF factor is good there too. Either way I look at it, they will need to be angled toward the seating. The height would be a minimum of 9' so they would be at over a 45 degree angle on the sides.


I think putting in soffits opens up so many possibilities - hiding treatment and speakers just for starters. It also allows you to do some kind of light tray should you choose which is a big WAF selling point in my experience.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Rope lights in the soffit are definitely in the plan. I am looking for a way to get them on an RF switch so I can turn them on/off/dim with the Harmony 700. I have to nail down which surrounds to use also now that I have the mains almost figured out, which are a variation of the SEOS12/ AE TD12. I'm looking at one of the smaller SEOS 8" kits or even a coaxial with a CD to match the mains. I'm not sure if I need that much volume though and for 1/2 the price I could go with the Classix II kit, Overnight Senstations, or the Swope.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dougc said:


> Rope lights in the soffit are definitely in the plan. I am looking for a way to get them on an RF switch so I can turn them on/off/dim with the Harmony 700. I have to nail down which surrounds to use also now that I have the mains almost figured out, which are a variation of the SEOS12/ AE TD12. I'm looking at one of the smaller SEOS 8" kits or even a coaxial with a CD to match the mains. I'm not sure if I need that much volume though and for 1/2 the price I could go with the Classix II kit, Overnight Senstations, or the Swope.


I would save a bit of money on the surrounds if you can - as they just tend to provide effects, I think you could get away with a little less there and save it for elsewhere.

As far as the rope lights, I cannot help much there. I put an outlet up in my light tray that was hooked to one of the Lutron GE unit so I could treat them as a "zone" and have full dimming capability.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Demo is nearly complete. I will tidy up tomorrow and take some pics of the empty room. I need some help figuring out my soffits as far as how to make them light and sag-free. My thoughts are to build the long pieces out of commercial gauge metal channel and 2x4 connectors. It would be easiest to rock the room, then put the soffit up, but I could make it more sturdy if I tie in the soffit frame to the wall studs. I will build in spaces for the angled surrounds into the soffits also.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

LED light strip might be a better way to go for your soffit lighting..You can connect them to an RF controller for dimming and effects and these are readily available on eBay..


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## Nuwisha (Apr 21, 2013)

I think I get what you mean about the soffits, have you thought of steel studs? Available in a few sizes (2x2, 2x3, 2x4, angles and reinforcing) it's light and strong. You can drywall right on it or use other coverings.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dougc said:


> Demo is nearly complete. I will tidy up tomorrow and take some pics of the empty room. I need some help figuring out my soffits as far as how to make them light and sag-free. My thoughts are to build the long pieces out of commercial gauge metal channel and 2x4 connectors. It would be easiest to rock the room, then put the soffit up, but I could make it more sturdy if I tie in the soffit frame to the wall studs. I will build in spaces for the angled surrounds into the soffits also.


Since you are not using clips, why not just rock the room and put the soffit up? You can use longer screws to go through the rock and into the studs. I would use 2x2s to create the soffit frames (and did) as they are lighter weight and I have had no issues with sagging at all. To reduce the weight of the soffit even more, have you considered covering them in cloth and using them for absorption?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Prof. said:


> LED light strip might be a better way to go for your soffit lighting..You can connect them to an RF controller for dimming and effects and these are readily available on eBay..


Yes! I just saw some at Costco and thought it was a great idea. I could use the Harmony remote to control them also.



Nuwisha said:


> I think I get what you mean about the soffits, have you thought of steel studs? Available in a few sizes (2x2, 2x3, 2x4, angles and reinforcing) it's light and strong. You can drywall right on it or use other coverings.


Right - I meant the steel studs for the bottom channel at least. I have seen a few HT build threads where people have used them with success, and they look pretty straight also. I never used steel studs, but it looks fairly straight forward. I like the idea of how lightweight it would be.



ALMFamily said:


> Since you are not using clips, why not just rock the room and put the soffit up? You can use longer screws to go through the rock and into the studs. I would use 2x2s to create the soffit frames (and did) as they are lighter weight and I have had no issues with sagging at all. To reduce the weight of the soffit even more, have you considered covering them in cloth and using them for absorption?


The soffit won't be attached to the ceiling, so I was worried that it would be sturdy enough since it will only be attached to the side wall. Sounds like I will be safe though as long as I anchor it well to the studs. Drywall the big walls first it is then. I'm planning to rock it all and use 7" crown at the top. I will use fabric for the areas in front of the surrounds, and have a pretty cool idea (I think) to angle them to the LP and run the fabric in an L shaped grill that keeps the shape of the soffit. I was planning to put pink fluffy in the soffits and fabric over the tops. Would that still work well for absorbtion or would the whole thing need to be fabric?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dougc said:


> The soffit won't be attached to the ceiling, so I was worried that it would be sturdy enough since it will only be attached to the side wall. Sounds like I will be safe though as long as I anchor it well to the studs. Drywall the big walls first it is then. I'm planning to rock it all and use 7" crown at the top. I will use fabric for the areas in front of the surrounds, and have a pretty cool idea (I think) to angle them to the LP and run the fabric in an L shaped grill that keeps the shape of the soffit. I was planning to put pink fluffy in the soffits and fabric over the tops. Would that still work well for absorbtion or would the whole thing need to be fabric?


So, if I understand correctly, you are going to do the bottom and face of the soffits as drywall and then put fabric over the top?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Yes, just to keep the fiberglass from getting everywhere when I clean up there. We live by the lake so we have plenty of spiders busy spinning webs 24/7. I figure that with the tall ceiling and hardwood floors that the fiberglass insulation in the soffit would help treat the room from some reflections.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dougc said:


> Yes, just to keep the fiberglass from getting everywhere when I clean up there. We live by the lake so we have plenty of spiders busy spinning webs 24/7. I figure that with the tall ceiling and hardwood floors that the fiberglass insulation in the soffit would help treat the room from some reflections.


I think that as long as you give the sound waves somewhere to "escape" the soffit, you should be good so I think your concept would work fine.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

d


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Aside from ripping out a few more strips of carpet, demo is complete. I'm going to double up the drywall on the ceiling, so I will leave what is there in place and go over it. The fireplace will get a stone veneer and a new mantle, the sliding glass door will be replaced with a French door.




This will be the new front wall with the 60" LCD and a built-in A/V rack to the right. The rack will be 48" tall and 36" deep. I will make a vented door behind it accessible from the room behind it so I can easily get to the cables and connections. Thinking of a tinted glass door front with a wood frame or a sliding art panel for the door to the family room. Still up in the air on this too.





This is behind the opening of the a/v rack that is where I will be building the closet. Plenty of wasted space in the stairwell. There is a black spot just off the right middle of the photo - that marks the bottom edge of the framing for the a/v rack.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

This is where the fun starts. I will be removing the wall in the middle from the above the door-headers down. There are kitchen cabinets on the other side of the wall too that have to come first. No biggie for loss of space since they are full of junk that never gets used in the kitchen. I have to insert a 14' beam made of two 2x12 and 1/2" OSB glued and nailed. It will support only a 10x14' section of ceiling in the kitchen made out of 24" oc 2x6. It is strong enough to be load-bearing, but that section of wall is non-load bearing. I actually look forward to building this part.






This double 2x12 will tie in to the new beam with a joist-hangar. It supports the ceiling kitchen.


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## cellarnoise (Nov 14, 2012)

You have a project on your hands!

The project opening up into other livable space can be hard on the family. Dust control is always the issue for me.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

After the wall is out and beam is secure, I will cut out a 13x4' long hole in the ceiling shown in the photo here and, with one hand, lift the Gjallarhorns to the attic. I will slide them back and forth and measure the response at the LP with REW to find the best placement with the least amount of nodes. There is a nasty dip around 40-60hz as is estimated in Room Simulator, hopefully it is not as bad as simulated. I will build up some mounts for the horns, secure them to prevent the ceiling from sagging from the weight, cushion where they seat, frame out the horn mouth entry to the room, wire, drywall. Easy peasey!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Tearing the wall out is going to get very messy. Next on the list now is to put up plastic in the room to keep as much dust in as possible.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Quite a bit of work done the last two days! Ripped out cabinets, ripped out the wall, braced the two ceiling supports with floor jacks, and cut away space for the new 14' header to span the new opening for the kitchen. 





The two 2x12s, 11" wide piece of OSB, and a 2x4 for the top.





Glued it all together







Lifted it up in to place with one hand


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Here is our makeshift 7.1 HT while I am building the living room. It actually is a very cozy little space, and works very well for a mini-HT. You can hardly see the tiny Gjallarhorn hiding under the blanket.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Time to frame out the Equipment closet, but am still working on ventilation ideas for it. I have a cold air return three stud spaces over from it. One idea is to connect to the cold air return from inside the closet, put a vent open to the stairwell underneath the equipment rack that would pull cold air from the basement through the closet and into the cold air return. Would this work? Would I need an inline fan too, or will the cold air return pull the air through the closet?


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

The open air feeling to the kitchen is very nice!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

bamabum said:


> The open air feeling to the kitchen is very nice!


Thank you! We are loving the openness. Building up the ramp to get the finished horns to the attic begins tomorrow - wish me luck. I'm waiting for a USB extension cable to measure the subs room response to finalize the placement.

I have decided to use iRule for automation of lighting and the universal remote. It looks like the Insteon system for dimmers and switches offers the most programmable set while being on the lower end of pricing. Does anyone have experience with iRule and Insteon?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The subs are complete and installed, the building of the soffits is in process. Here are some more pics of what has happened over the last 2 weeks.

Completed the subs, LMS-Ultra 18" loaded Gjallarhorns:




Built a ramp out of the cedar beams that I ripped off of the ceiling during demo. The subs are strapped furniture dollys.




My good friend and fellow Shackster Novice01 helping on the attic-side to receive the subs for placement. My dad and cousin on the bottom side to keep the subs aligned on the ramp. HTS member Archaea loaned me his electric engine hoist for pulling the subs up the ramp. We built a cross-member with another one of the cedar beams in the attic to support the hoist.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I have a bunch of climbing gear from back in the day that gets used mostly for lifting things these days. I'm not much of a daredevil since kids. You know, that grow up responsibility-to-raise-your-family thing...
This is a piece of 1/2" webbing threaded inside a piece of 1" webbing. Super strong, and easy to remove knots after placement. The webbing is wrapped around the sub like a Christmas ribbon.




We let each load rest to let the gear settle for a couple of minutes. It took about 2 minutes to raise the sub up the ramp and position on the attic floor.




Subs in position on a rail of 2x4s, ready to be slid inch by inch for positioning and measurement. This is actually the final placement after measurements.




I spent about 6 hours and at least 500 measurements at 3" increments across the ceiling, every combo possible. There were 6 measurements for proposed MLP with each movement of subs. This is my best configuration of the subs together for the smoothest response. Blue line is the measurement of the Gjallarhorn at 2' from the horn mouth. Purple is at the listening position with both subs. There is an awful dip obviously, but it should improve somewhat when the walls are on and I can begin EQ with REW and the MiniDSP. This doesn't discourage me one bit, I'm insanely excited about it!


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

So they are up there and I assume no one went to the hospital. Very impressive can't wait to see more of your great progress keep up the great work.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

B- one said:


> So they are up there and I assume no one went to the hospital. Very impressive can't wait to see more of your great progress keep up the great work.


Ha! No, thankfully. We were very careful and didn't do much "work." The machine did all of the work. Now, the day after I did the measuring, climbing up and down the scaffolding and in to the attic about 100 times, moving the subs over inch by inch, flipping the subs over and over - I was sore head to toe the next few days. And now I'm there again after building the soffits. Those photos are next.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Soffits made from 20g metal track, OSB, and 2x4. The walls aren't level, so the fronts I screwed together on the floor, the rest stick by stick to keep it level and square. I have both on the front and rear of the room finished, and one of the sides ready to be lifted to place.










The A/V closet for the gear rack is all framed in using all of the 2x4s that I saved after tearing out the wall. This photo is from the back side of the rack. It will access the back of all the equipment and cables, also having space for storage and additional equipment, ie, HTPC, switcher, router, power conditioner, etc. The black hole to the left of the photo is the opening to the living room.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

I hope your roof timbers are sound because those things will shake your house from top to bottom!! :yikes: :hsd:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Very, very impressive work Doug! Wish I lived closer - this would be a blast to see in person!


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Prof. said:


> I hope your roof timbers are sound because those things will shake your house from top to bottom!! :yikes: :hsd:


Exactly what I was thinking... Not to mention it might empty your cupboards of all their contents when you crank them. :yikes:

You have made great progress! I wish I had Forum Members in my area that could help me when we get our HT started.


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Doug, looks good man. We were just discussing a sub in the ceiling over at the Klipsch forum. Can't wait to see your finished product. One thing hope you don't mind if I share one of your photos of the sub in the ceiling over at the Klipsch forum.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ellisr63 said:


> Exactly what I was thinking... Not to mention it might empty your cupboards of all their contents when you crank them. :yikes:
> 
> You have made great progress! I wish I had Forum Members in my area that could help me when we get our HT started.


They have very little vibration at the box, but there is quite a bit of energy at the horn mouth. The mirror in the adjoining bathroom fell and broke a few days ago when I was running the sweeps for sub placement. So shakes the house it does. The ceiling joists don't vibrate at all that I can tell either, which really surprises me. I'm still going to use a cushion between the subs and the joists though. Having fellow hobbiests as good friends does help indeed.



duder1982 said:


> Doug, looks good man. We were just discussing a sub in the ceiling over at the Klipsch forum. Can't wait to see your finished product. One thing hope you don't mind if I share one of your photos of the sub in the ceiling over at the Klipsch forum.


Thanks Duder! I don't mind at all. Let me know if you guys come up with anything that could help me out in this endeavor.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

You know you're on the right track when you need an engine hoist to get your sub into place. And then you build two of those. Hats off to you, sir.


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

oh my. two LMS loaded GJallahorns??? no wonder you broke a mirror. I had the THT's and those suckers were powerful... I can't imagine the devastation of those monsters .


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Owen Bartley said:


> You know you're on the right track when you need an engine hoist to get your sub into place. And then you build two of those. Hats off to you, sir.


:yikes:



Mike Edwards said:


> oh my. two LMS loaded GJallahorns??? no wonder you broke a mirror. I had the THT's and those suckers were powerful... I can't imagine the devastation of those monsters .


If you like the THTs, you'll love the G-horns. I have one THTLP in the basement and all the panels cut and ready to build the second. Just a couple of projects going on at one time is good for the soul. Regular folks do Sudoku!



The soffits are finished, the ceiling rafters and supports for the subs along with the horn throat trim pieces are installed. The drywall guy came out for a bid and informed me that I wouldn't like the price since so much labor will be involved for all the nooks and crannies. He wasn't thrilled about gluing and screwing, and using 5/8 on the walls. Hopefully it won't be too much or I will have to do it myself to stay on budget, which would take me 3 weeks as slow as I am with drywalling. I'm ordering the Insteon parts as soon as I go through some more posts here on HTS. There are so many awesome projects going on right now with everyone, it's hard to keep up!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

OK, I've done it. Insteon parts are ordered:
1x - ISY994i Home Automation Controller with Dual-Band PLM
1x - Smoke Bridge with First Alert ONELink Smoke Detector Kit
7x - SwitchLinc Dimmer - INSTEON Remote Control Dimmer (Dual-Band), White
1x - INSTEON Keypad Dimmer Switch (Dual-Band), 8-Button, White
1x - Wireless Open/Close Sensor

So with this I will be able to control everything using iRule at home and basic controls from anywhere on my iPhone.
- lights on/off, dimmer control, scene lighting (ie, BluRay paused and the soffit lights increase to 50%)
- back porch lighting control (ie, lights come up at sunset, off at sunrise by time commands)
- text message when the exterior doors open when we are away.
- ceiling fan control
- text message for smoke or CO alarm
- intermittent lighting when we are out of town to simulate us being home

To add in the future:
Thermostat
Garage door control
irrigation system control
exterior security camera

LINK to the Insteon FAQ page with tons of good info for the beginner or the curious


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ALMFamily said:


> Very, very impressive work Doug! Wish I lived closer - this would be a blast to see in person!


Thanks Joe! I'm ready to see it too - it's turning in to a LOT of work. It's still fun though.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

dougc said:


> OK, I've done it. Insteon parts are ordered:
> 1x - ISY994i Home Automation Controller with Dual-Band PLM
> 1x - Smoke Bridge with First Alert ONELink Smoke Detector Kit
> 7x - SwitchLinc Dimmer - INSTEON Remote Control Dimmer (Dual-Band), White
> ...


If you get the ELK M1 I believe you can do your irrigation with it too. I use irrigationcaddy for controlling our watering and for filling our pond or when topping off daily. It is also controllable via your phone.

Here is the install manual link for the Elk M1... http://www.smarthome.com/manuals/12838install.pdf


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I have been busy that last few weeks getting everything ready for drywall. I decided to have them hang the drywall and 1st coat of tape. I used to remodel homes so I am super picky when it comes to finish, so this will cost half and look better in the end. I have a bunch of photos on my phone, but can't seem to figure out how to get them to download. I lost the memory card for my 5d, so can't share those either! 

- finished soffit with nailers for the drywall
- wired for surround
- wired for 3 rear subs (nearfield subs in the works, TBA)
- built Speakon cables for the subs
- flex tubing from TV mount to a/v rack
- wired cat5, cable, HDMI, optical
- installed and wired soffit cans
- new cans for overhead lights
- installed Insteon dimmers (awesome!!!!)
- 20amp dedicated plug to a/v rack for amp
- 4 15amp plugs to a/v rack
- build the surround speaker enclosures and installed


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Does your camera have a USB cable for transferring your pictures?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ellisr63 said:


> Does your camera have a USB cable for transferring your pictures?


It does - but the pics are on the card. I can't imagine where I would have put it. It usually goes from camera to reader, now it's in purgatory. I'm going to work on this iPhone and see if I can upload those pics.

edit: it's much easier going from the HTS app. Pics to follow...


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

dougc said:


> It does - but the pics are on the card. I can't imagine where I would have put it. It usually goes from camera to reader, now it's in purgatory. I'm going to work on this iPhone and see if I can upload those pics.


You are using an iPhone? I have an Android and when I view the pictures in Gallery there is an option to share or send the pics. I send them to my email and then upload them. I am assuming the iPhone has a similar setup. :T


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

dougc said:


> I have a bunch of photos on my phone, but can't seem to figure out how to get them to download.


Doug sounds like you are on top of it. As for the pictures I found it easier to up load them to either photo bucket or in my case Picasa, and just post the link, it makes it a lot easier.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

OK, we got a lil busy there with the ice storm dropping on KC right before the rush hour. Back-to-back calls for 4 hours or so. Turns out that you can't drive the speed limit on black ice and stay on the road. Anyways, here are a series of photos of what I've been up to the last couple of weeks aside from the standard home remodeling list.

I decided that I want to add front heights to my 7.2 to have 9.2. I have heard that Neo:X does a great job with extending the sound up to this channel, so now would be a great time to try it out. 

I chose DIY Sound Group's V-8 Coaxial designed by MTG90 (Matt) which uses the Eminence Beta 8cx coaxial 8" driver and the Denovo DNA-150 1" compression driver. Matt has done a nice job getting a very flat response out of the pair with his crossover design, which turned out to be a little relaxed for my taste in the HF. He recommended a few options of resistors, and ended up making a change to the design offered on the site. Below is the CNC baffle included in the kit that I attached to a couple of boxes I keep around for trying out new drivers. Also is a pic of the XO. The XO comes unassembled, but can be purchased assembled. They have had some issues with folks wanting to go DIY and build their own XO, but then messing them up with assembly, ruining the design. The boards are a new offering, but I will make my own for the other 4.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The box is a .67 cubic ft. ported enclosure with a 60hz tuning constructed from 18mm Baltic Birch ply. There are 3 different angles of enclosures I used to achieve audio bliss at the LP, and great coverage at all of the seats. These coaxials have a 55 degree off-axis response past center all the way across the usable frequencies. There is one seat that is 5 degress outside of the 55 degrees of the right-rear surround. That is the far left seat that is up against the left side wall. 














The Team


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The boxes are attached with PL Premium and brads. I left the baffle off to make mounting easier. Half of the spaces were right on the money and I had to coerce the boxes in with a hammer. The other ones were 1/4" big, which I did by design. I had to hold these in place while I nailed them in. These are "in" the soffit, never to be removed, so the boxes are attached to the frame with PL and 2" framing nails via nail gun. Once in place, the baffle was attached. After the drywall is finished, I will bondo, sand, prime the cabs. I will spray PVA primer on the walls, primer the cabs again when I spray the trim, sand, caulk, then spray the trim and primer with Sherwin Williams 50% Vellum oil.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Doug, are you going to seal off the cavities where you are mounting the speakers? Or are you not soundproofing the room/


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The holes to the sides of them will be sheetrock. None of what you see of the speaker box will be covered - just the area around it. I will make an L-shaped grill to cover the surrounds that continues the lines of the soffit to hide the cutout in the soffit.

The soffit below the subs will be stuffed with r-30 and completely sealed from the room. The rest of the soffits will be stuffed with r-30 as well and left open at the top. All the walls have paper-backed r-30, and and 1' of r-30 in the attic over the ceiling and on the walls of the vault. The walls will be a single layer of glued and screwed 5/8 sheetrock.


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## Basite (Nov 29, 2012)

That's going to be one amazing room man! opening up the kitchen by breaking out the wall looks much better too, IMHO. I will be following this thread!

Regards,
Bert.


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Doug, I lije the concept you with the surround speakers. I to will have mine down firing into the room like so. A little different design but same principle. Looking good I all so like the fact you built your own speakers. I wish the diynetwork would pick up a segment on all of us doing our theaters.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks guys! The drywallers are getting after it this morning. They think I'm nuts with what's going on in the soffits. I'm almost finished soldering together the crossovers for the surrounds and this stuff shows up. Uh oh!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The guys are at lunch, so I stuffed some insulation in the soffits before they cover it up. The other soffits remain open at the top and also stuffed with r-30 for treatment.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Nice horns, Doug. What kind are they?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ellisr63 said:


> Nice horns, Doug. What kind are they?


They are SEOS 12. I'm using the Denovo DNA-360 CDs with them and the ED td12m drivers for m lcr.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Lots of progress today!


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Progress looks great! Are you going to put some lighting up above the center beam to light up the ceiling?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Just a little observation... Do you think that by having the speakers recessed like that that the sound wave might be obstructed? I was thinking maybe if you angled the sides to make it more like a horn... Then the speakers would have the full radiating pattern as if they were flush with a wall.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The bit at the top and the soffits will all have crown and led strip lights on a dimmer. I think I found some decent ones that are supposed to be pretty bright for $15 per 15 feet. As far as the recessed surrounds: it's kind of a trade off. The angle to the MLP, or any lp, would have been bad if flat on the wall or under the soffit, even with the 120 degree off-axis. It would have been easier for sure to build. The way I have done it makes for almost perfect inclusion off all lp, and can be concealed well with the grills without changing the sound. Downside is that they are recessed which might make the mid-bass boomy and cause some weird reflections. There is only one lp that has some blockage by a corner, and that one is up against a side wall. Worst spot in the house. So yes obstructed, but only in one spot on the couch and by only the right rear surround with 5-10 degrees of the cd.


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## Basite (Nov 29, 2012)

looking very good. drywallers worked pretty good, I think? 

What color scheme are you going with? 

regards,
Bert.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Bert, we are going light with the color. The trim will be very light, almost white. The ceilings white. The walls will be a very light shade of grey. The front wall will be a an accent wall - deep cobalt blue - almost black. This will be the wall with the LCD screen. The floors are white oak, with a traditional dark brown stain. I'm not sure what the actual color is yet. The cabinets will be a darker stain than the floor. The walls in the kitchen will change to match the living room walls, a light grey. Overall, it will be light and airy. Great for sipping coffee and listening to music in the mornings.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I'm finally finished with the drywall, time to install some trim.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

That looks AWESOME Doug!!!


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Doug, those speakers blend nicely. Good job on those, am I seeing 3 surround speakers. I must say I am kind of confused on the lay out on what I am seeing.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks guys! I tried to get tricky with the panoramic feature which made it confusing. There are front heights, sides, and rears. The lcr will be floorstanders.


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

I was wondering you had done something like that, I bet it is going to sound great. I was thinking of something along the same lines for rear surrounds.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Whoa! Somehow, I missed that update. Those look awesome Doug!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thank you! These coaxials really sound great guys. They have much more mid bass than I expected. Here's a photo of one of them after I finished with the paint. I just used Pva primer on them and sprayed them when I sprayed the rest of the ceiling.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The hardwoods are in!

I have to wait a week for the poly to cure before I can install trim, so I will build and install the a/v rack this week.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Out of curiosity, what are you using for trim? Looking at the first picture, it looks like there is a fair bit of space between the flooring and the wall to cover...


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ALMFamily said:


> Out of curiosity, what are you using for trim? Looking at the first picture, it looks like there is a fair bit of space between the flooring and the wall to cover...


I'm using 7" crown on the soffit and wide base. I think the space you see in the photo on the right will be covered by the island bar.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

dougc said:


> . I have a bunch of photos on my phone, but can't seem to figure out how to get them to download.
> 
> Forum posting options
> Attachment type jpg smaller
> ...


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Sonnie fixed that by adding the Easy button for mobile uploads a while back. I still need to get an Sd card for the camera...


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I finished stuffing the soffits with r-16 today and covered the hardwoods with paper so I don't mess them up as I install the trim. I started cutting the pieces for the a/v rack too, but have to fix the drywall on one corner that was not perfectly level before I can continue.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Looks great, Doug!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

This is one room that is really going to pass the WAF test - great work Doug! :T


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks guys! Down to the fun part:

I used some iron on veneer to the sides of my maple ply. Finished up the a/v rack closet and painted with Pva primer and the same paint were using for the front wall, drilled holes for the shelf pins, and set it in to place for a look-see. I will be staining the maple Javobean and a satin poly on top.


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Looking good, is everything dry walled.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

duder1982 said:


> Looking good, is everything dry walled.


Yep, still waiting for the millwork to be delivered so I can install the trim and wrap this thing up


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

You are braver than me... Drilling all those holes without a drill press.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I worked on the fireplace the last two days. I decided to drywall the top and rock veneer the bottom. I used some door trim from the tearout for nailers for the drywall on the top section. I tore out some bricks in the V on the front, screwed and glued a frame in its place, 3/4" ply, then concrete board. I used some wire mesh on the bottom of the frame and the areas that weren't level to help flatten them out. I have the first of the rock veneer on. Now to pour the concrete hearth while I wait on the millwork to be delivered... still.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

What is going where the "V" is? Are putting veneer over the whole lower part?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ellisr63 said:


> What is going where the "V" is? Are putting veneer over the whole lower part?


Yes, all the way to the mantle, which will also be rebuilt. We wanted to make the cutout around the firebox square, which is why I boxed in the V. Here's a pic with the drywall almost finished and the LED can lights in.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Now I understand... Looks like you are doing a good job too! :T


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey Doug,
If you need some free labor hit me up. My off days are a little off due to my job but I live in Gladstone and would like to meet a fellow shackster. Give me a PM for email and cell.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

JBrax said:


> Hey Doug, If you need some free labor hit me up. My off days are a little off due to my job but I live in Gladstone and would like to meet a fellow shackster. Give me a PM for email and cell.


I will do that! I have most of the sound in place, so it's worth a visit to hear the surrounds with the subs. The surrounds are almost good enough to be mains.


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Doug, are you using dimmable can lights. How do you like the LEDS, I was looking at some and are highly thinking about dropping the cash. The way I see it is it cost anywhere from 10-20 for the baffles then bulbs. So 25-30 per lite didn't seem to bad.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

duder1982 said:


> Doug, are you using dimmable can lights. How do you like the LEDS, I was looking at some and are highly thinking about dropping the cash. The way I see it is it cost anywhere from 10-20 for the baffles then bulbs. So 25-30 per lite didn't seem to bad.


I love them. They dim down very low with the Insteon dimmers. They are Utilitech from Lowes and were on sale for $25. I am slowly moving to all LED and Insteon throughout the house to save on energy.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

duder1982 said:


> Doug, are you using dimmable can lights. How do you like the LEDS, I was looking at some and are highly thinking about dropping the cash. The way I see it is it cost anywhere from 10-20 for the baffles then bulbs. So 25-30 per lite didn't seem to bad.


I am using these,,, I purchased 9 (similar to the linked ones) for one of our other rooms and they were too bright and needed to be dimmed. I found out that you can only dim to maybe 30% before they start to flicker. I purchased 20 of the ones in the link, and from past experience with the company I will be dimming these too. The price is very good and the quality was good too IMO. I am using the Insteon dimmers too. :T


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## Boxozaxu (Feb 19, 2014)

You've done some really nice work! I'm especially excited to see how the fireplace turns out. Looking forward to the updates.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Boxozaxu said:


> You've done some really nice work! I'm especially excited to see how the fireplace turns out. Looking forward to the updates.


Thank you! I am ready for it to be done already. I picked up the forms for the concrete pour of the hearth yesterday, so Monday I will have some progress to show hopefully.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

dougc said:


> Thank you! I am ready for it to be done already. I picked up the forms for the concrete pour of the hearth yesterday, so Monday I will have some progress to show hopefully.


I know what you mean... We have been working on our house for almost 3 years now, and I want it to be completed.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I poured the hearth today. Next is to break off the forms, polish, and stain. Then I can install the rest of the veneer.

-I put down a bed of mortar for the backer board and leveled the board.

- cut and screwed down the concrete edge forms

- duct tape on the corners

- pushed mix in to the edges and 1/3 full in the rest

- wire mesh 

- filled the rest, smoothed, vibrated edges with a palm sander, smoothed the top some more

So far so good!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Forms off, finishing the rock today


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Looking good!


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## Boxozaxu (Feb 19, 2014)

dougc said:


> Forms off, finishing the rock today


That is really nice! And the way you're doing it, one room at a time, is the smart way of doing it.

My family/great room is very similar. Almost square with very high cathedral ceilings and, in my case, a very dated seventies fireplace that stretches almost the entire wall. I hadn't even considered a concrete poured hearth. The curved forms you used gave it quite an attractive profile. It's going to look really nice once you stain and seal it. Did you order them online? I can't remember seeing them at the big blue/orange stores. My last question is how did you remove the forms?? Did you snap them off?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

They are found online at http://concretecountertopsolutions.com but my friend had some left from his project, so I bought my forms from him. I cut them to fit with my mitre saw and attached them with 1/2" wood screws to the Durock. They just snap off after the concrete cured overnight. Then I buffed the shine out with a diamond pad so the stain can soak in. The stain is a water based die that I will apply in several very thinned down coats.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I finished the stone today. On to the trim - finally!


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Looks great!!! :T :T


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## Boxozaxu (Feb 19, 2014)

Big improvement! You must be very happy


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks! Happy so far. I pulled a chair in the room after I cleaned up all the concrete mess and listened to some Stevie Ray Vaughan. I may have enjoyed two Anchor Steam too.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I'm finished with the trim, crown, and mantle and have some sanding to do, and a few more nail holes to go over again. The mantle was fun and should look pretty nice when I get the paint on, which is hopefully next week. Getting close!!


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Man you have some skills! I hope mine comes out as nice as yours!


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

That fireplace came out completely different then I expected, it looks really nice.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ellisr63 said:


> Man you have some skills! I hope mine comes out as nice as yours!


 Thank you! It's always so much more work that you plan in the beginning, isn't it?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

duder1982 said:


> That fireplace came out completely different then I expected, it looks really nice.


Thanks - I am happy with it too. It was a fun project that went together easily.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I have made a kill room out of the house and applied Kilz oil primer with my airless sprayer. This is the turning point. A long day of sanding and caulking today after coffee, and am hopeful to get the paint spayed on by tonight. I will paint walls Friday and then install fixtures and final buff and poly on the wood floors. Woo hoo!


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Wow, the room has come a looong way! It's obviously been a while since I've looked in on your build thread! That is some impressive work - kudos for taking it on :T


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

BD55 said:


> Wow, the room has come a looong way! It's obviously been a while since I've looked in on your build thread! That is some impressive work - kudos for taking it on :T


Thank you, I enjoy updating the house and love creating, so this certainly fits the bill, but unfortunately costs a bunch of them. I sprayed the final coat of enamel on all the trim and doors today. 3 days and I can install the doors if they are cured enough and take the paper off the floors.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

My glass for the a/v rack door came today in some of the most incredible packaging I have seen, and I order everything online. It was a bit snug, but turned out perfect.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Your room is looking great, can't wait for the finishing touches excellent work.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Looking great, Doug! Is that an integrated amp in the last pic? Looks like a nice vintage one... :T


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Good eye! That is my prized Nakamichi AV8, which is standing in for the Onkyo 818 until all the dust settles. I would not get any work done without music in there. If it had HDMI I probably would not have ever upgraded receivers.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The paint in the living room is finished, the flooring guy dropped by this morning to buff and put on the final coat of poly. I will install the fixtures, tv, gear in the rack in a couple of days. I still have to paint the walls in the entry, hall, and kitchen. At least the trim saga is over. It takes a lot of prep to make it nice.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Our couch will be delivered in 6 days, so we will be having the first movie night then


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Looks awesome and way more open with that wall blown out. No kidding about the saga that is trim work. I did our kitchen which would equate to probably 5% of the work you did there and it took me forever


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## duder1982 (Aug 28, 2012)

Looks like a new house, like it was design yesterday. Very nice work, I bet it will sound nice.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Looks awesome... I bet you can't wait to start enjoying it!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I can't wait - it's killing me to be this close and not be able to do anything more until next week. The ceiling fan and LEDs for the soffits should be here tomorrow. I still need to figure out what film we will watch first. 

The trim in the kitchen was a tough one. That was my 2012 room to refinish. The hall bath was 2013,


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## zonecoaster1 (Jan 23, 2014)

What a ton of work. Looks really good.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Doug, all I can say is WOW. What a great looking room you've put together. You've got a really good eye, and everything goes together so nicely. The floor ties in enough with the stone, but not too much. The dark blue is a great contrast... very very nice.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks guys! I had only a few hours tonight, but I installed new hardware on 8 of the 10 doors, installed the ceiling fan, and the LEDs for the soffit. I still need to staple the strips down to make the glow even. I am impressed with how bright the led strips are, but equally as bummed that they don't dim as I thought they would. Just on and off...


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Are your LEDs 45 degree pattern? How far apart did you put yours? Are you happy with the spacing? How far off the ground are your lights? You bought the Insteon switches didn't you?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

ellisr63 said:


> Are your LEDs 45 degree pattern? How far apart did you put yours? Are you happy with the spacing? How far off the ground are your lights? You bought the Insteon switches didn't you?


They are the 600 light per 15' high intensity strip lights in the soffit indirect lighting. The can lights are the 65w equivalent led fixtures from Lowe's - Utili-something?. I really like those and they are dimmable with my Insteon switches.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

dougc said:


> They are the 600 light per 15' high intensity strip lights in the soffit indirect lighting. The can lights are the 65w equivalent led fixtures from Lowe's - Utili-something?. I really like those and they are dimmable with my Insteon switches.


I purchased the $15 can lights from Lowes for our pond room, and bought a bunch of LEDs to replace the halogens. For our extra room I bought a bunch of Cree style LEDs with clips (to hold them in the ceiling). I think they were the 15 watt ones, and I then I think I got 24 of the 12 watt ones. How far did you space yours apart (the can lights)? How do you like the Insteon? What did you get for controlling them?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Utilitech is the brand. I have them spaced differently: 7' at the front and to the left of the screen on the blank wall, 4' over the island and fireplace. I have 6 cans in the kitchen with PC in them, but plan to replace them with the same Urilitech as the living room. 

Right now I just have the Insteon switches programmed to each other, but I bought the advance hub so I can control them withy iPhone, and build scripts through iRule, which I don't have yet. My goal is to have an iPad and sit on the couch and be able to control everything from there: control garage doors, view security cameras, start a bluray while a script dims the lights when I hit play, and draws them up if I hit pause, view the temperature in the a/v rack... Big plans and I know it can happen with the software, but I have some serious reading to do.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

dougc said:


> Utilitech is the brand. I have them spaced differently: 7' at the front and to the left of the screen on the blank wall, 4' over the island and fireplace. I have 6 cans in the kitchen with PC in them, but plan to replace them with the same Urilitech as the living room.
> 
> Right now I just have the Insteon switches programmed to each other, but I bought the advance hub so I can control them withy iPhone, and build scripts through iRule, which I don't have yet. My goal is to have an iPad and sit on the couch and be able to control everything from there: control garage doors, view security cameras, start a bluray while a script dims the lights when I hit play, and draws them up if I hit pause, view the temperature in the a/v rack... Big plans and I know it can happen with the software, but I have some serious reading to do.


If I hadn't already committed to CQC... I think I would be looking at iRule too. I just picked up the ELK M1 gold setup and will be integrating my Insteon into that along with my AprilAire thermostats for a multizone HVAC setup. I will also be using it for alarm integration, and will be able to do lighting from the keypads too. :T


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

LED accent lights look great. How are they powered? Is it through a driver/power supply or just directly plugged into an outlet or connected to the switch via the house wiring? A dimmable power supply is usually the best way to make sure you can dim properly AFAIK.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I have heard ELK is a good one too.

I have one power supply per two strips plugged into a wall outlet that is controlled by a dimmer (that won't dim them). So I should have bought a dimmable power supply. I didn't know such a thing existed. I figured it would just work. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

LEDs can be confusing, and can definitely be a pain at times, but they can also yield very impressive results when you get everything sorted out.

I recently installed some LED under cabinet lighting in the kitchen, and used FlexFire LEDs. One of their UltraBright reels and a Zurik magnetic dimmable driver worked very well with a standard Lutron Diva dimmer switch. It wasn't cheap, but the results were great.

I bet you can find a dimmable power supply to use with your existing lights without breaking the bank.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks Owen, I'll check it out. I really want these to dim.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

If your LED strips are AC and not DC... You can use the Insteon dimmable outlets.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

They are dc


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

dougc said:


> They are dc


I just found this... http://www.amazon.com/Ledwholesalers-Dimmable-Magnetic-Transformer-Flexible/dp/B00IICNEJ6

A little pricey but at least you know they are available. :T

Here is another one... http://tv50inch.com/store/product.php?asin=B007KWVFXC

Here is a big one... http://www.jameco.com/1/1/53238-m300l24dc-300w-dimmable-led-driver-dc-magnetic-transformer.html


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks for the links!


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Doug, if its any help, FlexFire just put up a short how-to type blog entry using my project here.

http://blog.flexfireleds.com/install-cabinet-led-strip-lighting/

You can see the transformer I used, and the high voltage wire going in, and the low voltage wire going out. Looks a lot like the ones ellisr posted above. I'm not affiliated with the company, but I have been happy with my products, and they have several levels of dimmable LED drivers, 20w - 300w, in both 12v and 12v flavours. If you sign up for their newsletter first, they send you a discount coupon (or they used to at least).


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks for the info - the seller of my LEDs said they don't have dimmable ballasts, and also warned that I would ruin my current ones if I continue running two strip on one ballast. I found a dimmable ballast made by Mean Well that looks like a decent product for about $30. I do want something that is safe, so I will probably end up using a similar setup like yours. 

The couch delivered yesterday, but they scratched one of the sectional pieces, so I sent it back. The delivery guys suggested that I send it back which was impressive since they will have to move it several more times. We have the other piece of it though and just love it so far.

We had our first movie night last night and watched The Secret Life of Walter Mitty, and the first gun battle scene from Lone Survivor after my daughter went to bed. The audio in that scene is incredible and my new surrounds leave me without want for anything different. Xt32 blended everything together seamlessly, but my old mains are the weak link in my system now. Lots of tweaking to do until I build the mains and then more after that. 

Half of the sectional...


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Watch out! There's something hiding behind your new half-couch!!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Owen Bartley said:


> Watch out! There's something hiding behind your new half-couch!!


That's just my house tiger


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