# HK or Onkyo



## brandonnash (Sep 11, 2006)

Ok guys, looking at in the possibly near future upgrading my current receiver (old old pioneer 5.1 receiver) to another newer one. Looking at something very very inexpensive and the shoponkyo page seems very good. Also the refurb site for hk on ebay looks good also. Going to try to get something under $200 if possible. I want good sound. It doesn't have to be all that powerful. It'll go in a small room and is rarely ever played that loud. I want the ability to on occasion to be able to crank it up. I like that the HK's have onscreen menus, but their power is a little questionable. 

Any comments would be appreciated.


----------



## brandonnash (Sep 11, 2006)

OH, let me add that I do like the pioneer receiver, I just want a few of the more modern features associated with newer receivers. I would like to get at least component video switching, more than 2 digital audio inputs, little more actual (not quoted) power, auto calibration wouldn't hurt, and better sound quality.


----------



## chas (Jan 28, 2007)

From your other posts I know you have Athena speakers which tend to run on the bright side. I haven't heard an Onkyo receiver but I have had an HK AVR-340 which was warmer sounding and very musical.


----------



## brandonnash (Sep 11, 2006)

I like the AV-140 from HK, but 40 watts times 6 gives me a bit of pause. Can't afford the higher end models. I like denon products too, but once again, too expensive.


----------



## brandonnash (Sep 11, 2006)

Ok, hate to keep adding but I do want better bass management. My current receiver has a 100/150/200 crossover. Would much rather have an 80 or possibly 60 hz crossover.


----------



## chas (Jan 28, 2007)

The power ratings on the HK's are deceptive. They are much more powerful sounding than you would think, and the Athena's are efficient speakers.

Both Onkyo and HK have good bass management - many of their models allow you to set separate crossover points for center, fronts, and surrounds. Most will probably have 60 and 80 hz settings.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Look for a used Denon or Yamaha unit.


----------



## pgoko (Oct 25, 2006)

HK probably makes the most powerful receivers out there. These are high current boxes. Anyway that is why an amplifier is called "amp"lifier and not "volt"ifier. I have auditioned quite a few receivers myself. A 40W per channel HK receiver can out perform any 100W Japanese receiver any day. And again, at very high volumes the HK gets faster and tighter, and still maintains 5.1 seperation, and clean. On the other hand, you cannot tell the difference among channels in a "voltage" amplifier or low current machine at high volumes. All the channels are not discernable and tend to sound as one channel and muddy. HK boxes are good old raw American power. If you want very clean power, go for HK. For instance, I have a signature series amplifier (very high current) that I am yet to overdrive, and it is putting every subwoofer to shame. HK is probably the most underrated product out there...maybe HK did it to themselves by discontinuing lots of excellent stuff. 'nough said, go audition before you buy.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

This kind of generalization is correct only up to a point. It starts with a bit of truth but is very misleading when stated as you have. Yes, amplifiers need to be able to provide current. High current amps will sound like they hav more impact on music that requires substantial current, particualrly with more difficult loads. To suggest that the HK is significantly better in this regard than other better quality Japanese products is to greatly exagerrate the matter and may not be correct at all, depending on the comparison. The design of the HK does not differ very much from other similar products that hav ben discussed here. I have an HK receiver on my bench right now and comparing the transformer and power supply capacity to a similar Yamaha or Denon, or even a Pioneer, there is little difference. In fact, the Pioneer seems to have a much larger PS capacity than the others. (I am not a fan of Pioneer at all, BTW.)


----------



## pgoko (Oct 25, 2006)

Hey Leo, I am not generalizing, its all from auditioning an HK along with some other receivers side by side. For instance HK is among the few that gives you the High Instantaneous Current Capability (HCC) of thier amps or receivers. For example, if you have an HCC of 20 amps for a 100W receiver, it will sound muddy at high volumes and will have the hardest time driving difficult loads. If you have a bench try listening side by side at very high volumes and you will understand where I am coming from.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

HCC is marketing hype. The current capacity of an amp will depend on the power supply filter capacitance and the transformer, assuming the output devices can handle the current. There just is not that much difference between the competing brands in this regard. I work on them all the time. 20 years ago when everyone was using slimmed down power supplies and going to integrated output devices what you say may be true. Today, it is only true when comparing to lower end products. Brands like HK, Onkyo, Yamaha, and Denon are very similar in PS capacity and output capability. Like I said, one of the most beefy power supplies I have seen lately was in a Pioneer. 

I have listened to the products many times into many kinds of loads. I have an HK on test right now. I Your statements are exagerations and generalizations of the differences that one might find, and the ability to drive a complex load and deliver current appropriately is likely to vary within brands as much as between brands when comparing the top few on the market. HK is a good product. It is worthy of consideration along with the other brands mentioned, but the performance differences are not as extreme as you would describle them.


----------



## SteveB (Oct 20, 2006)

brandonnash check this:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...659-harman-kardon-avr-240-deal.html#post36031

I have a HK and love it, great customer service too.


----------



## spyboy (Jul 23, 2006)

lcaillo said:


> HCC is marketing hype. The current capacity of an amp will depend on the power supply filter capacitance and the transformer, assuming the output devices can handle the current. There just is not that much difference between the competing brands in this regard. I work on them all the time. 20 years ago when everyone was using slimmed down power supplies and going to integrated output devices what you say may be true. Today, it is only true when comparing to lower end products. Brands like HK, Onkyo, Yamaha, and Denon are very similar in PS capacity and output capability. Like I said, one of the most beefy power supplies I have seen lately was in a Pioneer.
> 
> I have listened to the products many times into many kinds of loads. I have an HK on test right now. I Your statements are exagerations and generalizations of the differences that one might find, and the ability to drive a complex load and deliver current appropriately is likely to vary within brands as much as between brands when comparing the top few on the market. HK is a good product. It is worthy of consideration along with the other brands mentioned, but the performance differences are not as extreme as you would describle them.



Hi

I have owned both HK separates and a Citation 7.1 power amp. I had too many problems with the HK separates. I almost bought an HK 8000, but I read about noise problems in the center channel, so I canceled my order. I never regretted canceling my order. I eventually bought a Kenwood VR 6070. That tested at 92 watts RMS X 6 simultaneously. It has served me very well.

Now I have a Denon 5803A that is a monster receiver. However, it is way more complicated than my Kenwood VR 6070. 

I simply can't recommend any HK receiver. Over the years, I have come to the conclusion that HK receivers do not get enough Beta Testing.

I would choose an Onkyo over the HK, especially the new Onkyo line, including the Onkyo 605.

All the Best


----------



## brandonnash (Sep 11, 2006)

Still going to have to stick to the cheaper receivers. Looking on the SHOPONKYO.COM site, I stumbled on a TX-SR304S on the very cheap. Does anyone have an opinion on this? It's still only 5.1, but it's going in my ~medium sized living room until I can afford more to put into a dedicated theater. Would love a 7.1 receiver, but I'm not so sure my living room is big enough and that my current furniture configuration can support it correctly.


----------



## spyboy (Jul 23, 2006)

brandonnash said:


> Still going to have to stick to the cheaper receivers. Looking on the SHOPONKYO.COM site, I stumbled on a TX-SR304S on the very cheap. Does anyone have an opinion on this? It's still only 5.1, but it's going in my ~medium sized living room until I can afford more to put into a dedicated theater. Would love a 7.1 receiver, but I'm not so sure my living room is big enough and that my current furniture configuration can support it correctly.


Hi

I would save up a little bit more and get the Onkyo 504.

All the Best


----------

