# What are you using for a DAC?



## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

With a HTPC you have a wide variety of DAC choices. I'd like to dialogue and see what individuals are using for a DAC? I've used my old receivers DAC's before, several different sound cards, and now I've moved on to a professional USB/Firewire audio interface for flexibility (I may use my computer as an active crossover via JRiver in the future and get into DIY Speakers). So everyone, chime in and tell me what you're using and how you're using it (music only, multi channel, crossover - ect).


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Not using one currently, but I am very interested to see other responses - subscribed!


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

I use a Music Fidelity M1DAC in my main two channel system. I have an XP machine I run JRiver on with about a gig worth of hi def music files. I USB out of the pc to the DAC.


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Wardsweb said:


> I use a Music Fidelity M1DAC in my main two channel system. I have an XP machine I run JRiver on with about a gig worth of hi def music files. I USB out of the pc to the DAC.


From the DAC - are you going to a receiver or separates?

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## ninouchka (Jan 19, 2014)

Steinberg MR816X to Yamaha adventage RXA3010
Using HTPC and windows home server with 12TB media storage, 6TB backup storage
On WHS is an Avid Mbox pro 3 connected as I compose music as a hobby.

cheers!


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

ninouchka said:


> Steinberg MR816X to Yamaha adventage RXA3010 Using HTPC and windows home server with 12TB media storage, 6TB backup storage On WHS is an Avid Mbox pro 3 connected as I compose music as a hobby. cheers!


How do you like the Steinberg interface? Are you connected via USB or FireWire?

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## ninouchka (Jan 19, 2014)

The MR series are firewire, but steinberg has also now the UR series which are usb, I know several people
with the UR824, 8 in/out analog, digital, midi, its asynchronous usb, so the jitter is pretty good.And with the
last update of the firmware it supports now 24 bit/192 kHz. I wish they also had done this for mine..


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

I have started a major overhaul of my home theater system and family room stereo system.

I sold off my Integra 80.2 and Oppo 103 in the home theater and the upgrade plans
are a new 3770 htpc build that will use an Exasound e28 with Dirac Live and JRiver Media. 

The stereo system in family room's music htpc will use the new Oppo 105's DAC. The stereo system 
in family room's music htpc uses an Oppo's 105 DAC. I'll be using JRiver Media and I expect to use 
the second license of the Dirac Live multichannel on this computer. I plan to put to work a first 
generation IPad I seldom use, to work for the music interface.


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Tedd said:


> I have started a major overhaul of my home theater system and family room stereo system. I sold off my Integra 80.2 and Oppo 103 in the home theater and the upgrade plans are a new 3770 htpc build that will use an Exasound e28 with Dirac Live and JRiver Media. The stereo system in family room's music htpc will use the new Oppo 105's DAC. The stereo system in family room's music htpc uses an Oppo's 105 DAC. I'll be using JRiver Media and I expect to use the second license of the Dirac Live multichannel on this computer. I plan to put to work a first generation IPad I seldom use, to work for the music interface.


Whoa!!!! The e28?!!! Now that'd a dream DAC for me, and DIRAC....you my friend are going to be cutting edge in the HTPC world!

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

I am playing with 2, well 3 really if you count the one in the Denon processor.

Computer using JRiver to the Music Fidelity V-Link 192 via USB and then coax out of the V-Link to a Lite Audio Tube Dac. I like this because I can roll tubes and change the sound a bit. Also listening via Toslink from the computer to this Dac

Computer using JRiver to a Micromega MyDac also using USB and/or Toslink. No need for the V-Link on this set up as the MyDac will accept USB, Coax and Toslink without a converter. 

Used a Dragonfly for awhile and it was very nice. 

Lastly I did use the Denon for awhile but prefer either of the first two above more. Thus far I seem to lean towards one more than the other but we shall see.


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Savjac said:


> I am playing with 2, well 3 really if you count the one in the Denon processor. Computer using JRiver to the Music Fidelity V-Link 192 via USB and then coax out of the V-Link to a Lite Audio Tube Dac. I like this because I can roll tubes and change the sound a bit. Also listening via Toslink from the computer to this Dac Computer using JRiver to a Micromega MyDac also using USB and/or Toslink. No need for the V-Link on this set up as the MyDac will accept USB, Coax and Toslink without a converter. Used a Dragonfly for awhile and it was very nice. Lastly I did use the Denon for awhile but prefer either of the first two above more. Thus far I seem to lean towards one more than the other but we shall see.


Any particular reason you preferred one DAC over another?

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Indeed, one sounds better than the others, so far. I am still listening and playing around.


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

Yep, no more prepros for me.  

Cutting edge yes, but I am following in another's foot steps. He has all the details worked out, except 
3D (which holds no interest for me).


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## andy_c (Aug 8, 2006)

My setup uses HDMI out from the HTPC into an Emotiva UMC-200. I'm very happy with how it's working. The UMC-200 has problems cutting off the beginnings of songs when using S/PDIF input, so I would not recommend using it in that mode. There is no such problem with it when using HDMI.

When I get my subs built, I hope to be able to switch to JRiver and use its DSP features in a two-channel setup, with four subs having individual EQ and custom crossover in software. The idea is to re-purpose the four surround channels and use them for subs, basically just using the UMC-200 as a MCH HDMI DAC.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

andy_c said:


> My setup uses HDMI out from the HTPC into an Emotiva UMC-200.



I'm revoking your audiophile card Andy!! Emotiva and HDMI...oh my. 
You're supposed to be able to "hear" that HDMI jitter ya know...
Four subs eh? You digest that Greisinger paper yet? Have you read JJ's perspective on soundfields (pardon the pun) and LF, etc? They are real eye openers too...

Anyway, on to DACs: my laptop/netbooks - Nuforce Air DAC wireless (music)
Wired - my Sony (w/ external 1TB usb HD) BDP-S570s onboard Wolfsons for music, my RX-A800's internal DACs for movies via HDMI from Sony.

cheers


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Tedd said:


> Yep, no more prepros for me.
> 
> Cutting edge yes, but I am following in another's foot steps. He has all the details worked out, except
> 3D (which holds no interest for me).


Who's footsteps would that be per-tell? Mojave? Or some one else in the PC world? (I know a few people that have this level of PC/High End audio- mainly through fourms - and when I say a few - I can count them on one hand and have a couple of fingers left   ).


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## cavchameleon (Jan 7, 2008)

For me I find the DAC's in AVR's to be just fine. I use HDMI out from the HTPC to the AVR, bit-stream and it works just fine. In the past, I used to use outboard DAC's for music, but I feel most in AVR's (especially upper tier ones) are just as good as stand-alone DAC's. My opinion of course.


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## andy_c (Aug 8, 2006)

ajinfla said:


> Emotiva and HDMI...oh my.


Hey man, haven't talked to you in a while!

Actually the UMC-200 works very well with HDMI inputs. No sound glitches at all, unlike with S/PDIF input.

I forgot to mention another problem I was having when using it with S/PDIF, besides cutting off the beginnings of songs. When I played a playlist having a mixture of 16/44.1 and high-res files, there would be pretty bad sound glitches in the transition from files of one sample rate / bit depth to another. The sound would drop out momentarily, sometimes for several seconds, then come back, sometimes two or more times per transition. Pretty bad. But with HDMI input, it's flawless; there are no clicks nor any sort of pause. My Denon 3312CI used to click at the playback transition between Redbook and high-res files.



ajinfla said:


> I'm revoking your audiophile card Andy!!


And you can tear off my audiophile epaulets too, like the beginning of the old _Branded_ TV show .








ajinfla said:


> You're supposed to be able to "hear" that HDMI jitter ya know...


So far, I haven't heard any bad "sonic"  effects of HDMI. It supports all the bit depths and all the oddball bit rates too, including 32k, which is handy for internet radio. Resolutions of 16, 20 and 24 bits are all supported. With an earlier HTPC, I had many problems with HDMI when using it with my Denon 3312CI. I suspect those problems were motherboard-related. It seems to me that modern motherboards are doing HDMI very well now. The one I'm using has an AMD chipset.

One thing I do is a tweak recommended by John Siau of Benchmark; put 3 dB of digital attenuation in software to prevent inter-sample clipping in the DAC's digital reconstruction filter. I think the latest Benchmark DACs have this built into the hardware, but the earlier ones do not.



ajinfla said:


> Four subs eh? You digest that Greisinger paper yet? Have you read JJ's perspective on soundfields (pardon the pun) and LF, etc? They are real eye openers too...


I don't know about the Griesinger paper. Do you have a link to his and/or JJ's articles? What I'll be doing is inspired by *this Geddes video* and *accompanying PowerPoint presentation*. I'm in the process of writing optimization software that does something like what he describes in the video, but also incorporates ideas from the article "*Low-Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers*" by Welti and Devantier.


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## Tedd (Feb 2, 2007)

prerich said:


> Who's footsteps would that be per-tell? Mojave? Or some one else in the PC world? (I know a few people that have this level of PC/High End audio- mainly through fourms - and when I say a few - I can count them on one hand and have a couple of fingers left   ).


Maestro2be. 

I have a history of some "off the beaten track htpcs". MP-1 Radeon 5BNC with Immersive Holo3Dgraph card, with a SDI modded dvd player feeding H3D cards, and involvement with a friend's dual htpc blending project that fed dual 9" crt pjs to create a scope image that used 90% of each crt pj's 4:3 raster. There's also been numerous dedicated music htpcs over the years. 

So maybe you have now have one less finger.... 

The tricky part is there's a D-box 530 motion system. (PC too.) This is where a leap of faith comes in.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Hmmm, never had any spdif troubles myself, but it seems like hardware implementation and possible cables themselves cause issues.

Btw, speaking of HDMI, seems that minidsp is coming out with an interesting piece



andy_c said:


> What I'll be doing is inspired by *this Geddes video* and *accompanying PowerPoint presentation*. I'm in the process of writing optimization software that does something like what he describes in the video, but also incorporates ideas from the article "*Low-Frequency Optimization Using Multiple Subwoofers*" by Welti and Devantier.


Yes, everyone (well, maybe except the "treatments" guys ) know those. For the most part, most people will be served well by the spatially averaged smoother amplitude multiple source thing. Certainly better than sticking those giant sponge (Midbass-HF absorber) thingies around a domestic living space.
I'm fond of recordings that have stereo content well into the deep bass and not fond of Iso-wards, so neither approach suits me (not to mention issues in the 100-400 hz range, as I use to argue with Earl).



andy_c said:


> I don't know about the Griesinger paper. Do you have a link to his and/or JJ's articles?


Greisinger was the "other" Harman guy. He's the physicist who headed their "specialty" group. I swore I'd linked this on AC in a thread you were involved in, but here it is http://www.davidgriesinger.com/asa05.pdf
Even better, read his entire site! http://www.davidgriesinger.com/
The stuff about adaptation is particularly amusing, given what most believe.
JJs stuff. All great reading, but skip to A Low-Complexity, Fast-acquiring Perceptually Tuned Room Correction Algorithm to start.

cheers


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## andy_c (Aug 8, 2006)

ajinfla said:


> I swore I'd linked this on AC in a thread you were involved in, but here it is http://www.davidgriesinger.com/asa05.pdf
> Even better, read his entire site! http://www.davidgriesinger.com/


Wow. That's the last Griesinger article I'll ever read without some extremely compelling reason to do so otherwise. He makes so many unsupported assertions that it's impossible for me to take him seriously. While he does provide a small number of reference articles for support, every one of them is also written by him, and not a single one of those is peer-reviewed. I'm absolutely astonished that any self-described skeptic would take him seriously.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

andy_c said:


> Wow. That's the last Griesinger article I'll ever read without some extremely compelling reason to do so otherwise.


Then I need not link his AES stuff. 



andy_c said:


> He makes so many unsupported assertions that it's impossible for me to take him seriously.


Such as?



andy_c said:


> I'm absolutely astonished that any self-described skeptic would take him seriously.


I'm astonished he hoodwinked Harman into making him head of HSG! Including all those concert halls and that Lexicon stuff and Logic 7, etc. He's even got Earl fooled now too. 


> This is exactly where I differ from Toole! I think Griesinger and I see many things alike!
> - gedlee


It's ok Andy. I did state it's not for everyone, any more than JJs assertions. 
4 subs it is, on with the show.

Btw, are there any links to the AES peer review of flanking subs?
Hmmm, maintaining stereo VLF closely correlated to mains...seems right up Griesinger and JJs alley. But we digress....

cheers


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