# Is my living room projector 'friendly'?



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey guys, I find that my audio experience surpasses the viewing in my HT. I'm wondering about the potential for a projector system in my living room. You can see pics of the layout here

The tv is a 50" and picture is great at the front couch (moved about 2-3ft back, of course:dumbcrazy however I keep thinking that a 80"-100" diagonal ceiling-mounted pull-down screen (in front of tv) would be ideal from the primary seating positions. The windows can give some glare, but not usually during evenings as they are on the east wall. Otherwise there is ambient light from downstairs that filters up, but it too can be better controlled.

Am I only dreaming? If a projector were possible, what (budget) price could achieve it? (I'd likely pick up a used/closeout/older projector to make the budget, if possible)

Thanks


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ambient lighting is your biggest issue, The more you have the higher the contrast ratio and brightness you will require. A used 720p projector can be found for well under $1000 that would do the job as long as you can control the light from outside.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey Tony,

How about the picture quality of such a projector on a ceiling mounted pull down screen? Any good given that ambient light is dim? We have a 50" 720p plasma right now, but from the preferred seating position the view seems pretty small at 14+ft.

A local ad has a Panasonic #PT-AE900U asking $600 with very low hrs, and there are others to be had, but it seems the living room and screen determine the projector type/model, eh?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I've been using a Sanyo Z4 projector in our basement theater thats only 720p and even with some of the lights on it still does fairly well on our painted on 96" screen. As long as you can mount the projector within 10'-12' of the screen you should be ok.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Oh, forgot about my center ch speaker- it's _above_ the current tv. Surely that's a problem with a screen in front of it unless it's some special type (expensive) of material, no? Otherwise, I guess I could mount a matching bookshelf under the screen...


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You can buy a perforated screen called an Audio Transparent (AT) screen however they usually cost a bit more than a normal one.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Not to mention that most AT screens will have less gain to help overcome any ambient light. 

Bryan


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Looking at my area, I'd have no problem replacing the in-wall with a matching bookshelf center. I would also, keep the tv at its position and use a diy 'hanger' on the window shutter for the projector: that way I only contend with two holes in the ceiling for the screen mounting.

Given that I could minimize ambient light to pretty low levels, what kind of minimum specs (lumens, contrast ratio) would I need to get a nice picture? It seems that specs are wide ranging, and the price is equally wide  I would probably look at used/closeout projectors, that would be a 2004-2009 model for a few/several hundred dollars. I saw that you can see the bulb run-time on them, and I've seen several for sale that were little used, with a couple hundred hrs or less on them.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Manufacturers spec's of Contrast ratio and lumins are very deceiving and dont really say much. The newer the projector the better it will do I would not go with anything older than a 2007 projector and less than 300hrs on the bulb. Your probably looking at around $700 for a decent used projector and do not buy an office or multimedia projector make sure its a Home theater projector with either a resolution of 720p or 1080i/p


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks Tony, what about online reviews of projectors (projector central, etc) Worthwhile regarding light output, ideal use?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yes, Projector central is a good starting point.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

What do you think about this used projector. A bit dated at a 2004 model, but it can be had for $300, plus the cost of a new bulb (as I expect the bulb to go soon, so add that cost in). Ambient will not be a problem when viewing whatsoever (my wife is SO cool) since shutters will all be shut :bigsmile:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The Panasonic is very similar to the Sanyo I have in its specs and would do ok as long as your screen size is kept under 96" and the projector can be mounted no farther away than 10' from the screen. If you can meat those points then thats a good deal.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Hey Tony, I used the 'projection calculator pro' on projectorcentral and it shows the Panasonic just capable of 14'8" throw distance with a 92" 16:9 diagonal screen size at 1:0 gain, which just happens to fit my exact requirements (I can do 14'-15' throw). Do you think that might work? Bulbs run about $200-250, no? It has 1300 hrs on it and no remote, so I'll think about it. Will an inexpensive 1:0 pull down screen give me a good picture? How much more costly is a screen that will benefit the picture (is the cost/benefit ratio linear with respect to screens)?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

14' is going to go outside the limits of the projector if you have any ambient light in the room. The farther away you place the projector away from the screen the dimmer the image becomes. It will work buy wont be nearly as bright as a display meaning dark scenes will be very hard to see. With no remote it gets a little clumsy to operate and a bulb life of 1300hrs your about halfway through its lifespan, bulbs usually cost between $200-$400.
Im not really up to speed on screen gains and what they really benefit you in terms of cost. Maybe that should be a new topic.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

When we typically watch, it is too dark to eat without lighting (so my wife says), so I use my dimmed overhead lights (flush-mount cans) so we can see the room a little. Of course, this time of year the room has a bit more light filtering through shutters until about 8pm when the sun starts setting!

Looks like I may pass of this projector unless he accepts a very low offer-I'm in no hurry. Thanks for your help!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

ironglen said:


> Of course, this time of year the room has a bit more light filtering through shutters until about 8pm when the sun starts setting!


Try living up here, as this time of year the sun doesn't even go below the horizon before 11pm and is back up at 4am. I'm glad we have a basement or a theater room would be very hard to work with.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Would this projector work decently for the cost, or would I be completely disappointed with the contrast (600:1)/picture? 

It can be had used for $200 and has 1400 lamp hrs, and a lamp costs $200 shipped. Or do you think I would be better off spending several hundred more for a higher level projector with higher contrast ratio (2000:1)?


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## mdrake (Jan 31, 2008)

Here are a couple of 720p sharps for under 700.00
*CLICK HERE
and
CLICK HERE

Matt
*


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The issue with that projector is that its a multi media projector and its native resolution is 1024x768 so it will scale everything you feed it and it also does not have a HDMI input. I dont really think thats where you want to go. I really think you should up your budget about $200 more and your options will greatly improve.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks guys:T I got mixed up with the 1280 & 1024 pixel count: definitely going 720p with 16:9, so that's a deal breaker. As far as hdmi, I may use component anyways. I'll look a little higher in specs and price then.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Matt has linked to a couple that would do a good job but neither of them have lens shift I personally would look at this one here, This one or even better this one


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks Tony, I should have stated that my limit will be under $600 for sure. I'm watching out for a few Pana and Epson, and possibly a Sanyo. I see many sell their 720p projectors as they are upgrading. I think I have a better idea what to keep my eye out for- thanks again guys.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

That Panasonic AX200U I linked to above seems like a great deal, Its got everything you need.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

I was looking at that Sanyo. No remote, but no worry. Only the lower lumen output concerns me. 

The AX200 is very nice, but it will probably go up considerably before it ends tomorrow.

I'm still looking at the initial Pana AE700http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140414874610&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT for ~$300 and wondering how low a reasonable offer to be...

There is this Pana AE900U for a set price. Hoping I can spend a bit less, but not too sure considering the low hrs on this one.

I found this Epson hd-400 too, I'll keep my eye on it tonight!


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

I missed out on those projectors- these things aren't cheap!

Tony, or others, I found this older Sanyo PLV-60HT :is that a good deal to get started on a budget? It's specs state 720p capable and I don't think that I'll have a problem using component, I don't think. And it will work in my room...


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The PLV60 is a 768 native resolution but will handle a 1080i input from component. Its rated output is 700:1 so not too bad for an almost 10 year old projector. Its a tough call for the money its probably not bad but Im thinking you can get a little newer for the same price (athough the free new bulb is a bonus)


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks Tony, I was thinking the same thing: I'll continue to keep my eye out before making a quick decision :sneeky:

Good news is the 'great deal' 92" Elite motorized screen arrived yesterday- and it's up and working nicely :T Got it at the price of a manual screen with just a small ding on the case- hardly noticeable!


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Any opinions on b-stock purchases? Seems like I saw that they typically go through a thorough check before being resold vs a new one that just gets shipped out, that true? 

I'm looking at a b-stock Optoma DLP HD65 that has a 90day warranty vs a new unit that can be had for $80 more (carries a 1 yr parts & labor), however, a 3yr warranty for the b-stock runs $99. I figure the difference in initial price is balanced out with an additional 2 yrs of coverage as the total price difference would only be $20. Does that sound like a good deal to you guys or is a warranty not a good thing for a projector? Traditionally, I figure solid state electronics to be good to go if it works out of the box, but projectors are a new thing to me; the warranty also doesn't cover a bad bulb. Either way, seems like a better deal than buying a one used at the price these can be had (500-600).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Glen,
B-stock is a good way to go and Yes in most cases the manufacturer goes through it to make sure that it is working as it should.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

For those prices, I'd definitely take a shot at the B Stock and the $99 warranty.

Bryan


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks Tony, and Bryan too: I was thinking that DLP projectors have moving parts, complicated moving parts- so for the cost savings go ahead and get the warranty vs a new one for nearly the same price. Now, I've got to drum up a little more money as I'd hope to pick up a used one for less, but it seems people are asking at least 300-400 for used ones, as they're trying to recoup their investment from a couple yrs ago that was substantially more than current prices.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Pulled the trigger on a b-stock Optoma HD7300 with a 5yr warranty. I figure it will be at least as good a picture as the budget Optoma HD65 that uses a darkchip 2, as the HD7300 has the darkchip 3 and was a very high-end projector when it retailed a few years ago. It was the same price and comes with the additional video processor- hope I was right.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

I must say that it makes no sense to have a projector when you sit only 2-3 feet from the screen. No offense, but that's much to close for 50" is already much larger than the recommended size by THX 

At 3 feet they suggest 27" TV. 

I suggest if you buy a projector and want a cheap one that you get the Sanyo PLV-z60(not the same one you linked which you shouldn't buy) For the cost of a bulb and a used projector you can get a new projector with a new bulb and better picture quality. However I don't think a projector is the way to go here. Now if you want to pull the seats back and what not then that's a different story. 

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html

If you are looking at a used projector it should have a 2500:1 contrast ratio or higher and have a native resolution of 1280 x 720 or greater.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Eh? We have seating for four at 15' from the screen. I turn the couch around sometimes, but it is then 8' back.

The Optoma HD7300 is 5000:1 contrast and 720p.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

ironglen said:


> Eh? We have seating for four at 15' from the screen. I turn the couch around sometimes, but it is then 8' back.


LOL I read the (2-3ft) and thought that was the seating distance. :rofl: 

Where did you get the projector at? I may have to check the deal out my bulb is on it's last 1000 hours.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Haha! I thought you'd looked at the pic of the living room with the couch right in front of the wall mounted tv.

I hope my choice was a good one, regardless of the extended warranty. I found it here I checked BBB and they looked good there, but that's all I know.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

ironglen said:


> Haha! I thought you'd looked at the pic of the living room with the couch right in front of the wall mounted tv.
> 
> I hope my choice was a good one, regardless of the extended warranty. I found it here I checked BBB and they looked good there, but that's all I know.


that's a very good deal. That PJ retailed in the thousands of dollars. I'd not worry too much about moving parts. The color wheel is very simple device. 

Are you shelf mounting or ceiling mounting?

For a screen just use black widow. The stuff is only 2 parts of paint to mix and is as good as you will find for screen material.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Great. I don't know much about projectors, but been reading a lot this week.

I picked up a scratch and dent elite motorized, as I unfortunately placed a tv on the wall that would have been perfect for a diy screen. I'm just doing this temp as we may move in a couple yrs, so permanent stuff has been done only how I think a home buyer would want things. I'm going to take the ceiling fan out and wire the projector in its place as it will throw the image just right according to specs (fingers crossed).


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

ironglen said:


> Great. I don't know much about projectors, but been reading a lot this week.
> 
> I picked up a scratch and dent elite motorized, as I unfortunately placed a tv on the wall that would have been perfect for a diy screen. I'm just doing this temp as we may move in a couple yrs, so permanent stuff has been done only how I think a home buyer would want things. I'm going to take the ceiling fan out and wire the projector in its place as it will throw the image just right according to specs (fingers crossed).


DLP PJs are a little tougher to place so be preparred to spend an hour or so dialing it in. But once you get it you will be rewarded by the best home theater experience of your life. Nothing compares to a projector.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Great choice Glen! Get ready for a great experience:T


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks Guys: I'm really excited! After getting the audio where it is, the tv was clearly the limiter in the HT experience. 
I took the ceiling fan down and will be mounting the projector on a board right over the spot with a few long screws into the ceiling joists. I will space it an inch or two off the board for ventilation and to run the wires. This projector has a little vertical and horizontal lens shift capability that might come in handy. With any luck I'll be up and running next week.


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