# Power cords



## rpearson (Jul 9, 2013)

I like the idea of making your own power cords. Made to the exact length you need etc. But is there a place to buy the proper components with out having to mortgage the house?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

What do you consider proper components? For me, they would be found at any electrical supply dealer.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

rpearson said:


> I like the idea of making your own power cords. Made to the exact length you need etc. But is there a place to buy the proper components with out having to mortgage the house?


Try Parts Express. They have everything you need, connectors, cable and techflex sleeving. The Belden cable linked to below is a popular choice for modest priced DIY power cords. DH Labs Power Plus AC Cable is an excellent alternative that I have used in the past for DIY power cords, and which I highly recommend. It is also a little cheaper that the Belden cable.

http://www.parts-express.com/cat/ac-power-connectors/1560

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=100-790

http://www.parts-express.com/term/techflex-sleeving?srch=techflex+sleeving

http://www.ebay.com/itm/390057427610?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Way to much trouble IMO.
Gear comes with power cords that are included in the UL rating.
Both ends are integrally moulded.
I don't see the upside to making unique length power cords.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

You may not see any upside but tens of thousands of audio and HT enthusiasts do. The OP asked for advice on sources of parts, to which you contributed nothing positive, not a dismissive opinion about the value of custom cords.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

So what is the value? I am sorry, but I have never been able to detect any difference, either looking for noise in the power supplies or at the speaker terminals. Other than perhaps shielding and the convenience and aesthetics of cords of custom length, I don't see much value in anything but stock cords. If one does want one of those advantages, as I said, any electrical supply has the parts.

I am perfectly willing to entertain the possibility and even test power cords for differences, but among the "tweaks" that get mentioned, this seems to be one of the least likely to have sonic differences.

chasint is welcome to his opinion just like you are welcome to yours, GlenB. The OP can make up his own mind.


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## rpearson (Jul 9, 2013)

To me most everything here could be considered true in one regard or another. Why put nice wood on the outside of speaker cabinets. Why hide the wiring coming or going from one point or another. Sticking only to what adds actual sight or sound improvement is ok with me if thats your thing. 

As for me if you can do all that and make it look good as well then this is the art of refinement. Again that is if this is your thing. The cord thing for me is another way to (1) enjoy the actual building project. (2) Add to the cool factor of your gear. (3) neaten up everything with power cord that are cut to the the proper length with out having a wad of extra cord bundled up every where. The way I see it if your interested it's just another way to enjoy our fine passion.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Absolutely! If it brings you joy and pride in your room, that is a huge reward and makes it totally worthwhile for you! So what if no one can see it. _You_ know it is there.


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## stevekale (Jan 19, 2013)

Interesting set of threads linked to here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-audio/68110-diy-balanced-ac-power-3.html#post623129

I am in the process of upgrading all my power cables to Schuko plugs (from BST) and inserting an Isotek GII Titan. I buy cable from the reel and connectors  and deploy the shielding in the cable to make a Faraday cage for each. Much cheaper than buying ready-made solutions. With braided sleeving they look nice as well.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

I am not saying that it will make an audible difference, or that it won't, only that there are many aspects to the way one enjoys one's hobby, and it can include taking pride in clean soldering, not leaving bent nails, and using custom length power cables in invisible places. I personally doubt it will make any audible difference, but if one enjoys the process and feels good about the result, it can add to the enjoyment of the room for that person and there is value for him in that respect.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If cords are not long enough to pull gear out of the cabinet that causes issues for me.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Very true. Useability and serviceability are to be considered.


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## dboomere (Dec 2, 2011)

Yes... If it looks good, it works better


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

some guy on another forum building a Home theater had made a power cord for his projector that had 2 Male plugs... one on each end. that is going to be dangerous one day when not careful!!

I think building a nice power cable is a good idea. This is a great hobby where you can venture off into many corners.


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

I like this !

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=110-437


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## rselby (Feb 8, 2012)

Take a look at this DIY power cable, post # 95, I have done this and have the same ac connectors( got them off ebay), http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=94203&page=7


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## xtinkshun (May 6, 2011)

I made my own, I used DH labs cable and wattgate connectors. nothing expensive. I paid about $8 ft for power cable wire. Wattgate connector price from $20.00 to however expensive you wanna get. I made cables from .5m to 3m. I don't like all the extra spaghetti. Yes it would have been cheaper to buy pre made from monoprice but I wanted to DIY my own. Its a pretty easy project. Good luck


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## dboomere (Dec 2, 2011)

I can see making your own custom cables for the sake of neatness and reducing clutter. But for me it's kind of like worrying about the hose that you used to pump the gas into your tank. It's gonna have very little effect on how your engine performs.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

It is fundamentally impossible to improve the sound quality by building your own power cables simply because the wire in your walls is not shielded and is only 14awg all the way back to the panel. 
If you like the convenience or the look of a home made cable by all means do it but don't expect any improvement in sound or anything else.


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> It is fundamentally impossible to improve the sound quality by building your own power cables simply because the wire in your walls is not shielded and is only 14awg all the way back to the panel.
> If you like the convenience or the look of a home made cable by all means do it but don't expect any improvement in sound or anything else.


you could always jumper off some wires from the electric box at the curb and run it under about 4 inches of soil through an open window (if you don't live in polar vortex area) then you would most certainly see that improvement ? 

But really, I think making power cords is a cool idea to have the length just right and im sure they look nicer as well. Plus the fun of stripping wires, soldering iron etc. I can't wait to build my own.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

fschris said:


> But really, I think making power cords is a cool idea to have the length just right and im sure they look nicer as well. Plus the fun of stripping wires, soldering iron etc. I can't wait to build my own.


Sure, I fully agree. It's a fun hobby.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

For some, it is simply the satisfaction of having done it themselves. Enjoy the journey!


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

fschris said:


> But really, I think making power cords is a cool idea to have the length just right and im sure they look nicer as well. Plus the fun of stripping wires, soldering iron etc. I can't wait to build my own.


Soldering is not necessary or advised. Tinning the ends of the stripped wires is not a good idea. When you tighten the termination, the tinned end will deform and become loose over time. Tighten the connection some more and it will deform further, repeating the cycle over and over.


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

You might find some sound improvement if your original power cords were poorly made or thin gauge wire but usually re-wireable connectors are more bulky/ugly than the molded on ones.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Glen B said:


> Soldering is not necessary or advised. Tinning the ends of the stripped wires is not a good idea. When you tighten the termination, the tinned end will deform and become loose over time. Tighten the connection some more and it will deform further, repeating the cycle over and over.


If you want permanent connections that do not loosen over time, and do not oxidize, you can tighen down on the bare wire, then solder it all together.


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

lcaillo said:


> If you want permanent connections that do not loosen over time, and do not oxidize, you can tighen down on the bare wire, then solder it all together.


that's a great tip


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

Sorry for being late to the thread. 

I have found that of all the cables used in a system the power cable can have the most dramatic effect on the sound. AC power is contaminated with a lot of RFI and EMI waves. And a well designed power cable can very effectively filter out a lot of noise. 

I have made a lot of power cables and found that everything matters. The quality of the ends make a pretty big difference. The geometry of the wire and or type of braiding used is a big deal. Quality of the wire is a biggie too. You can even drop in some Stillpoints ERS paper for additional shielding. Even cryo treatments can have a pretty serious effect. 

For a good source for parts in a varying range of budgets I'd contact Dave at P.I. Audio. He can fix you up with what you need or give you some direction on some easy things to try. 

Pete at Triode Wire might also be a good resource for low cost parts and some good direction. 

Both of those guys are pretty easy to find online and good to work with.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Better late than never!!!

What kind of improvements are you talking about? I mean, are they measureable differences? I have never really investigated power cords...have read some articles that say they do help, and some that say otherwise. Is this something that you can explain further? I would like to hear & learn a bit more on this.


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

Tonto said:


> Better late than never!!!
> 
> What kind of improvements are you talking about? I mean, are they measureable differences? I have never really investigated power cords...have read some articles that say they do help, and some that say otherwise. Is this something that you can explain further? I would like to hear & learn a bit more on this.


Most notable is a drop in noise floor. So there is what we call blacker blacks. When you drop the noise floor then other areas are improved as well. Detail levels are more refined and clearer. And there is often a notable difference in sound stage layering. 

My best advice is to experiment and find out for yourself. 

I can also tell you that if you are running a budget based home theater system the differences noted will not be as great as what you'll hear in a higher level or higher quality system. So your results can vary.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

When you talk about RFI & EMI interfearance, is this something that a good power conditioner would filter out. Curious since I have an APC S-15 with everything plugged into it.


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

Tonto said:


> When you talk about RFI & EMI interfearance, is this something that a good power conditioner would filter out. Curious since I have an APC S-15 with everything plugged into it.


Some will to a large degree and some do not. 

And a power conditioner is not a substitute for good cables. A cheap cable is also an antenna to a large degree. So you can clean up the incoming power and then just add a new antenna to it and pick up a bunch of new noise.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

But my question is how does a short 6ft high end power cable help at all if the 100+ feet of Romex in the wall is just plain 14awg copper. Also does the power transformer inside the Receiver/processor not do filtering?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Yes, power supplies do filter much of the garbage off of a.c. lines. I am also very skeptical of the value of shielding a short length of ac cord to solve RFI and EMI issues, unless those are very local to the devices.


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> But my question is how does a short 6ft high end power cable help at all if the 100+ feet of Romex in the wall is just plain 14awg copper. Also does the power transformer inside the Receiver/processor not do filtering?


I get water at my house too. It goes through miles of pipes all the way to my kitchen sink, but right before it comes out of my faucet it goes through a filter. 

Electricity works the same way.

And the power transformer inside your whatever does not do a sufficient job of filtering anything.


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

lcaillo said:


> Yes, power supplies do filter much of the garbage off of a.c. lines. I am also very skeptical of the value of shielding a short length of ac cord to solve RFI and EMI issues, unless those are very local to the devices.


Power supplies are not efficient at dealing with noise at all. 

I have even noted that dropping in a P.I. Audio Uber Buss into a system increases the efficiency of power supplies enough for it to make a volume change. Yes without touching the volume control and just plugging the conditioner into the system the volume is slightly louder from the efficiency gain.


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## Almadacr (May 5, 2011)

Danny Richie said:


> Most notable is a drop in noise floor. So there is what we call blacker blacks. When you drop the noise floor then other areas are improved as well. Detail levels are more refined and clearer. And there is often a notable difference in sound stage layering.
> 
> My best advice is to experiment and find out for yourself.
> 
> I can also tell you that if you are running a budget based home theater system the differences noted will not be as great as what you'll hear in a higher level or higher quality system. So your results can vary.


I agree with the "experiment and find out for yourself" i only have problems with the claims and price of some manufacturers . 

So my question goes ... is it better a individual power cord or a power conditioner from Monster , Furman etc that wont make a hole in the pocket ?


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Actually, power supplies are pretty good at filtering some things, not others. It is easy enough to measure these things, yet it is very rare to see actual test results for most of the products that claim such effects.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Danny Richie said:


> Power supplies are not efficient at dealing with noise at all.
> 
> I have even noted that dropping in a P.I. Audio Uber Buss into a system increases the efficiency of power supplies enough for it to make a volume change. Yes without touching the volume control and just plugging the conditioner into the system the volume is slightly louder from the efficiency gain.


The subject here is power cords, not line conditioners. 

I can imagine a bit of efficiency gained with some power factor correction, which IIRC the Audio Uber Buss claims to have, but again, this kind of claim seems over the top and it is very easy to measure. Why not?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Almadacr said:


> So my question goes ... is it better a individual power cord or a power conditioner from Monster , Furman etc that wont make a hole in the pocket ?


It's certainly better to get something like the Eathereal power conditioners that sell for less than $70 than to spend money on a power cord that usually costs even more.


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## Almadacr (May 5, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> It's certainly better to get something like the Eathereal power conditioners that sell for less than $70 than to spend money on a power cord that usually costs even more.


I have both brands that i named the monster being in the HT system and the Furman on my guitar/amps system on 20amp line . The first one i had since the time i had my first LCD tv and had ground problems affecting image and it solve the problem , the second reason was for protection . 

But most of some companies claim more than this and ask a lot of money for it ( i saw prices from $200 up to $800 depending on length , colors and what not ) . 

The question is ... why a company selling a $7000 amp its shipping it with a very normal power cable that will cost no more than $10 ???


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## Danny Richie (Jul 12, 2009)

lcaillo said:


> The subject here is power cords, not line conditioners.
> 
> I can imagine a bit of efficiency gained with some power factor correction, which IIRC the Audio Uber Buss claims to have, but again, this kind of claim seems over the top and it is very easy to measure. Why not?


My point is that a power cable is a filter just like many line conditioners. 

I'll see if I can set something up to measure the gain in efficiency. And whether it sounds over the top or not, it was pretty easy to hear.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Most things that conduct are a filter to some degree. The question for me is whether the filter properties are meaningful.

It should be pretty easy to measure any of they effects that are claimed for power cords, if they exist. Lower noise floor, less noise in the signal carrying circuits supples, etc.

For the prices some are charging for power cords they should be able to afford to actually document what they claim.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

So what would a test like this look like. Do we measure those mentioned with say a blender running on the same circuit/as well as on another circuit? Or do we just measure in an environment at multiple times a day? Or what?


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## cpestes (Jul 23, 2014)

While there is something to be said for custom length, or custom look, I would not expect any improvement in sound quality from a power cord change. If it makes you happy, by all means have at it. My recent power cord replacement involved a mouse chewed cord on a Kenwood amp. A smallish SPT-1 type non polarized lamp cable was replaced with a 6 foot, $1.47 cent, 16 gauge extension cord with the multi end cut off from Home Depot, and a matching size strain relief. The neutral side of the polarized plug was soldered to the same side as frame ground in the amp. I did use silver bearing solder though, so that will probably make up for my cheap - er- thrifty attitude. Works fine.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

cpestes said:


> While there is something to be said for custom length, or custom look, I would not expect any improvement in sound quality from a power cord change.


Typical response from someone who has not tried various cords in a high resolution system and therefore has no experience of the subject matter.


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## cpestes (Jul 23, 2014)

I glad you were able to determine my qualifications and background so readily. I can tell pretty quick I don't fit in around here.. Happy listening, buy whatever sounds good to you, and hey, if a 1000 dollar power cord trips your trigger, go for it. 
From the rules I had to agree to, but apparently not everyone:"
Please be polite, courteous and respectful of other members, as well as all products and services discussed. There is no need to be condescending or overly critical, not everyone will be as smart as the next person. If you can help, please do so, but remember, we all start learning somewhere and none of us are perfect. If you are the home theater, audio or video aficionado king daddy audiophile, we are glad to have you around, but please be humble and considerate to those of less fortunate knowledge. If you call a member dumb, stupid or an idiot (or anything resembling those) you will be on your way to being banned. Something to remember is unless we are the smartest human being on the planet, there is always going to be someone smarter than us... and we are always going to be "less" smart than at least a few others. Therefore, if you just absolutely must call someone stupid, consider looking in the mirror and go at it all you want... but keep it off this forum.

Read more: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/misc.php?do=cfrules#ixzz38I516GCj


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Glen B said:


> Typical response from someone who has not tried various cords in a high resolution system and therefore has no experience of the subject matter.


Has nothing to do with experience, it's common sense that a uber high end cord is just snake oil as unless it has some sort of filters built into it not just fancy wire there can't be any improvement. I agree that many of the cheep cords that come with equipment have lousy ends and may not make the best connection but unless your replacing the wire in the wall all the way back to the electrical panel and while your at it run new lines out to the power pole in the back, oh and you might as well get the city to upgrade the transformer as well..... I think you see my point.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Glen B said:


> Typical response from someone who has not tried various cords in a high resolution system and therefore has no experience of the subject matter.


Hi Glen,

As a manufacturer, I get to try (and sometimes own) all the goodies. That includes many high $$ power cords, in >$70k front ends, SS and tubes. I've been complimented by folks from Stereophile, Enjoy the Music, Positive Feedback, etc. (actually got a "Best sound of show" from PF once). Unlike audiophiles, I can also ace Klippel, Harman, Phillips GE, etc. reality hearing ability tests.
Not sure if any of that gives me experience, ability or a "high resolution" system by your reckoning, but with all that I have not been able to "hear" power cords, even in sighted, uncontrolled, relaxed, long term "audiophile" styled "listening". That said, I have no doubts others do, under similar settings.

Now regarding the actual efficacy of such products, lets get to some technical facts. Is it possible for a line cord to affect the signal, despite being the last 3-10' in front of the romex>power grid? Yes it can, due to Faradays Law of induction (sorry tonyvdb, that argument is invalid). Does that automatically translate to "audible" differences? No it does not.
The bottom line is this: unless a power supply (which the line cord is connected to) is extremely incompetently designed (or designed by an "audiophile"), the line cord will make no audible difference whatsoever. That means that it is highly improbable with most equipment, but not impossible.
It is also possible that claims of audibility are due purely to the way such audibility was determined - via uncontrolled "listening".
So for about 99% of equipment/users out there, it won't matter. For the others, it could come down to power supply design...or "listening" method design. Both possibilities exist and thus cannot be dismissed.
Let's just say they have higher standards for advertisements in the UK regarding these things: http://www.asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2011/1/Russ-Andrews-Accessories-Ltd/TF_ADJ_49597.aspx#.U8-8TkCTJ9t
Bottom line, if a fancy cord makes you happier, you should buy them.
Technically speaking, there is rarely reason to do so.

cpestes, welcome aboard.

cheers


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## yapper (Mar 11, 2014)

That was an excellent answer. I'll admit I was expecting snake-oil salesmanship when I read "as a manufacturer", but was pleasantly surprised by the balanced response.

I like to think of the power cord like the last few feet of hose pipe. As long as it is at least the same internal diameter as the rest of the hose, water will flow nicely. If it is narrower you'll see a difference. If it's bright pink, the wife might complain.


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## GR300 (Nov 16, 2014)

From my experience what the power cord is attached to ( the plug end) is even more important.

I don't know if it has been discussed here or not but there is a very interesting paper at the Equitech site about balanced AC. I have been using isolation transformers for years to isolate my gear from the noisy grid. I have configured some isolation transformers for balanced AC and the results have been quite interesting. Noise reduction has been significant. 

There are many things to consider when using isolation transformers or balanced isolation and from my experience to get the best results multiple transformers are needed. Purely analog gear with liner power supplies should not be connected to the same transformer as say a PC with a switching supply. Each type of gear creates its own noise that gets reflected back onto the AC grid. 

I have developed a method for isolation from my personal experience.

Transformer 1. Purely analog gear. Recording consoles (primarly older analog) mic pres, compressors and EQs

Transformer 2. Digital gear mostly with switching type power supplies. 

Transformer 3. Computers.

One thing that is important with isolation is to never connect anything besides the gear to the transformer like lamps and fans. 

This all applies to HIFi gear as well. The grid is a noisy place.


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