# Subwoofer for a 17'x11'x10'(WxLxH) space within a 26.5'x17.5'x10' room ~ $600



## Typhoon859 (Apr 9, 2010)

Hi guys! So, nothing too much more specific to mention here. Overall, there's a general standard when it comes to low frequency generators which makes it a lot easier to say that one subwoofer is better over another (how well the sound travels in whatever sized room, the frequency response, positioning of the port relative to the sitting position, etc...). What I can provide is a fairly accurate schematic of the room in which the subwoofer would likely be placed in the front left corner. That'll simply depend on where there'd be the most standing waves after I test it from the couch position. Any information and specific details from experience or otherwise would be helpful. Thank you!











PS- I'd like to mention that the $600 limit isn't including any potential deals based on past occurrences or whatever, so if you are aware of there even being the slightest chance of this, feel free to mention currently higher priced units. Thanks 

EDIT: I currently have my sights set on the SVS PB12-NSD, the HSU VTF-3 MK4, and the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX. With hopefully a deal, maybe I could get any of these down to $600! I really did push my budget to its maximum here XD


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

> Overall, there's a general standard when it comes to low frequency generators which makes it a lot easier to say that one subwoofer is better over another (how well the sound travels in whatever sized room, the frequency response, positioning of the port relative to the sitting position, etc...)


Sorry, but I don't really follow you. Are you referring to WinISD, REW 

or a room mode/standing wave calculator

or am I missing the point entirely? :huh: Please let me know if I'm completely off base here.


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## Typhoon859 (Apr 9, 2010)

wgmontgomery said:


> Sorry, but I don't really follow you. Are you referring to WinISD, REW
> 
> or a room mode/standing wave calculator
> 
> or am I missing the point entirely? :huh: Please let me know if I'm completely off base here.


I just meant that there are less characteristics to analyze. I wasn't talking about any kind of specific tools/methods. Maybe I phrased that too intricately XD


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Typhoon859 said:


> EDIT: I currently have in my sights the SVS SB12-NSD. With hopefully a deal, maybe I could get it down to $600! I really did push my budget to its maximum here XD


It will have limited extension. Only so far you can push a sealed 12 inch driver. For sealed I wouldn't even bother until you've got long throw 15s and 18s.

I suggest two Rythmik FV12s


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## Typhoon859 (Apr 9, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> It will have limited extension. Only so far you can push a sealed 12 inch driver. For sealed I wouldn't even bother until you've got long throw 15s and 18s.
> 
> I suggest two Rythmik FV12s


Hmm, yeah, I figured as much right after I started looking into it further. 

Two subwoofers would of course be ideal, but with the budget, better to get one good one rather than two $300 ones, no? 

How would one Rythmik FV12 compare to the likes of the SVS PB12-NSD, the HSU VTF-3 MK4, and the Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX in your opinion? From what I've been searching, these seem like the better options in my case over something like my initial suggestion (the SB-12). Of course, you just mentioned just that as well.

From what I've read, I also can't help but think, even though also a 12" sealed driver, that I might prefer the Epik Legend over all the others. At least, that's in terms of the kind of sound I'd be looking for. Relative to the size of the room, that might not even matter since it would lack the efficiency to even be up for comparison in that sense, if the same applies to it as to the SVS SB-12.


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

Today's ported subs sound just as clean as sealed subs. You won't be getting bad sound from the ported version because they are designed extremely well. In fact, from what I've read, Epik subs don't sound like typical sealed subs. A couple things with their subs:

Because they use dual drivers but have competitive prices they use less than top notch components. Their drivers are a bit cheap & their amps have had issues in the past. 

They have an EQ on their amps that push the driver louder in the lowest octave. This adds distortion because they are asking the sealed sun to behave like a ported to get more output. I've read that they aren't the cleanest sounding subs from more than one post.

I'd for sure go either HSU or SVS!!!


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## TheLaw612 (Jan 17, 2012)

Typhoon859 said:


> Hmm, yeah, I figured as much right after I started looking into it further.
> 
> Two subwoofers would of course be ideal, but with the budget, better to get one good one rather than two $300 ones, no?
> 
> ...


The FV12, from everything I've read, won't have as much output as the SVS, HSU or Outlaw, but will still be a great sub. It will probably be the most accurate/articulate of the group though. I doubt you'll be able to find the PB12 for anything less than $700 unless someone is trying to dump it quick for some reason. Same goes for the VTF3. About twice a year Outlaw sells the EX for $550 shipped to your door which is an amazing deal.

So if ~$600 is your hard limit, I'd say get the FV12 or wait a couple (hopefully) months for the EX to go on sale again and snatch it up.

And if you haven't already seen it - HERE is pretty good writeup on the FV12 and others.


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## Typhoon859 (Apr 9, 2010)

Timoteo said:


> Today's ported subs sound just as clean as sealed subs. You won't be getting bad sound from the ported version because they are designed extremely well. In fact, from what I've read, Epik subs don't sound like typical sealed subs. A couple things with their subs:
> 
> Because they use dual drivers but have competitive prices they use less than top notch components. Their drivers are a bit cheap & their amps have had issues in the past.
> 
> ...


Thanks for that info on the Epik subs. That makes perfect sense and I'm surprised that didn't cross my mind. The reasons the things you mentioned are problems I would also think so nothing I'd debate. 

Even if I felt the Epik Legend sounded better for whatever reasons, having that accomplished in a forced/fake way isn't worth it as it makes for "a cheaper sound", distortion or other things as such being part of the reason.



TheLaw612 said:


> The FV12, from everything I've read, won't have as much output as the SVS, HSU or Outlaw, but will still be a great sub. It will probably be the most accurate/articulate of the group though. I doubt you'll be able to find the PB12 for anything less than $700 unless someone is trying to dump it quick for some reason. Same goes for the VTF3. About twice a year Outlaw sells the EX for $550 shipped to your door which is an amazing deal.
> 
> So if ~$600 is your hard limit, I'd say get the FV12 or wait a couple (hopefully) months for the EX to go on sale again and snatch it up.
> 
> And if you haven't already seen it - HERE is pretty good writeup on the FV12 and others.


As far as the writeup goes, yes, I've seen it. I was actually linked there on that forum by the OP of the thread himself, lol. 

Thanks for the suggestions and that'd be my logic. I decided to go for the FV12 with the expectation of getting another one in the not too distant future.

Thanks again!


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Timoteo said:


> They have an EQ on their amps that push the driver louder in the lowest octave. This adds distortion because they are asking the sealed sun to behave like a ported to get more output. I


Eq'ing sealed subwoofer bottom octave (also known as a Linkwitz Transform circuit) is desirable, and not really an effort to emulate a ported design. It merely compensates for the natural 12 dB/octave roll off sealed designs exhibit. It also allows sealed subs to dig deeper with more SPL than ported designs can muster. lddude:

Try to EQ a ported sub below tune and you will get 100% distortion and possibly a damaged driver.


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

I understand & approve of the Linkwitz way but the Epik subs incorporate an EQ that, IMO, grossly exagerated this concept.

In a perfect world I would love to have a good quad sub system incorporating 15" sealed subs. But money & space limit. That & the fact that todays modern ported subs are so much more accurate means that most of us can be very happy with a, single or dual, well designed ported sub & get all the output & accuracy we could want. I don't recommend Epik subs in general because of their amplifier track record, their many less than stellar sound accounts & that overall QC. I'm not saying they are a "bad" sub & I'm not bashing Epik at all. But if someone asks for a recommendation....I personally can RECOMMEND Epik subs.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Timoteo said:


> I understand & approve of the Linkwitz way but the Epik subs incorporate an EQ that, IMO, grossly exagerated this concept.
> 
> In a perfect world I would love to have a good quad sub system incorporating 15" sealed subs. But money & space limit. That & the fact that todays modern ported subs are so much more accurate means that most of us can be very happy with a, single or dual, well designed ported sub & get all the output & accuracy we could want. I don't recommend Epik subs in general because of their amplifier track record, their many less than stellar sound accounts & that overall QC. I'm not saying they are a "bad" sub & I'm not bashing Epik at all. But if someone asks for a recommendation....I personally can RECOMMEND Epik subs.


You call this not bashing Epik!!! Explain how you know that Epik grossly exagerated the Linkwitz Transform Circuit. It amazes how one who has never owned an Epik sub could attest to it's less than stellar sound accounts and overall QC, have you visited their facility and observed this lack of QC and use of subpar drivers and components and build quality? You have the OP believing and convinced of your hold no water claims. Epik offers two models as of now the Empire and Legend and I have heard both, how many documented amp failures do you know of with either of these subs or are your claims rumor based? The dual driver Legend has a cone area eqivalent to a 17" driver an weighs a miniscule 80 lbs. I have dual Legends that are used everyday and am amazed at the output and extension from these sealed subs. By the way I've had them for a year and a half, guess what...no amp failures.
Most Sincerely...Jeff


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Read this: www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1313176


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## Typhoon859 (Apr 9, 2010)

needspeed52 said:


> You call this not bashing Epik!!! Explain how you know that Epik grossly exagerated the Linkwitz Transform Circuit. It amazes how one who has never owned an Epik sub could attest to it's less than stellar sound accounts and overall QC, have you visited their facility and observed this lack of QC and use of subpar drivers and components and build quality? You have the OP believing and convinced of your hold no water claims. Epik offers two models as of now the Empire and Legend and I have heard both, how many documented amp failures do you know of with either of these subs or are your claims rumor based? The dual driver Legend has a cone area eqivalent to a 17" driver an weighs a miniscule 80 lbs. I have dual Legends that are used everyday and am amazed at the output and extension from these sealed subs. By the way I've had them for a year and a half, guess what...no amp failures.
> Most Sincerely...Jeff


Well, to be honest, I've heard similar things about them elsewhere although based on what you're saying and a few other facts, what it really is is unclear. Regardless though, for this current situation, the dual Rhythmik's I feel is the best option. I'll keep in mind the Epik Legend in the future still if I think I'll be looking for the specific purpose I related to it earlier - for music and such. Depends on the space and many other things of course. 

One thing I should say though is regardless of whether or not the mentioned faults of the sub are accurate or not, I'm not a big fan of design of such a manner. Those are the kinda things I would assume anyway. Once again though, it has its purpose and I will keep it in mind. 

Thanks for contributing to the conversation/thread!


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Typhoon859 said:


> Well, to be honest, I've heard similar things about them elsewhere although based on what you're saying and a few other facts, what it really is is unclear. Regardless though, for this current situation, the dual Rhythmik's I feel is the best option. I'll keep in mind the Epik Legend in the future still if I think I'll be looking for the specific purpose I related to it earlier - for music and such. Depends on the space and many other things of course.
> 
> One thing I should say though is regardless of whether or not the mentioned faults of the sub are accurate or not, I'm not a big fan of design of such a manner. Those are the kinda things I would assume anyway. Once again though, it has its purpose and I will keep it in mind.
> 
> Thanks for contributing to the conversation/thread!


You are welcome, I was not trying to push Epik subs on you but rather defending such claims of QC and reliability issues that result in amp failure and cheap components as stated. For me I am quite fond of the design of dual opposing drivers, you may not be so inclined, that is your perogative. I wish you well and whatever you decide on I hope you achieve your goals, what you think is all that matters, good fortune to you.
Jeff


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

I've read that link to the Shootout many times. I love that review. The first time I read it was when it was first released. In fact, that Shootout was was of the main reasons that I chose to get the VTF-15H. I wanted clean, accurate bass & the 15H fit my budget & wants in spades.

Sorry I offended your Epik!


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Timoteo said:


> I've read that link to the Shootout many times. I love that review. The first time I read it was when it was first released. In fact, that Shootout was was of the main reasons that I chose to get the VTF-15H. I wanted clean, accurate bass & the 15H fit my budget & wants in spades.
> 
> Sorry I offended your Epik!


You did not offend my Epik nor myself, your brash and unfounded statements are offensive, this is a discussion forum where members share their experiences with each other and try to make new members feel comfortable and ask for advice without intimidation. I have not heard an HSU sub and therefore have no right to make negative comments about them or say that they use subpar drivers or anything else for that matter. Hang around here for awhile, you may learn etiquitte and aquire some manners. I'm happy that your VTF-15H provides you with the clean accurate bass and I would recommend it to others who have a budget for it. That's how it is done, you can share your preference without demeaning another's.
Welcome to the Shack....


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

Well as I said originally, the Epik comments were my opinion. I politely stated my thoughts & politely commented that I was not trying to bash Epik. I do have experience with some of their products, which has influenced my opinion sonI will continue to hold my view on them. I will also continue to participate here on HTS & thank you very much for the warm welcome...I can feel the love! 

Wasn't my intent but I obviously struck a nerve.....sorry?:huh:


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Timoteo said:


> Well as I said originally, the Epik comments were my opinion. I politely stated my thoughts & politely commented that I was not trying to bash Epik. I do have experience with some of their products, which has influenced my opinion sonI will continue to hold my view on them. I will also continue to participate here on HTS & thank you very much for the warm welcome...I can feel the love!
> 
> Wasn't my intent but I obviously struck a nerve.....sorry?:huh:


At my age I only have one nerve left and surely you have not struck it. I'm allergic to alcohol but I don't bash people who drink it. Epik only has two models as of almost two years, I don't know which you have experience with?? This will be my last response to this pointless topic, we need to get back to the OP's quest. Strangely I do love you, I don't have to like you, enough said. You're welcome for the welcome. Best to you and yours.....


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

All is well that ends well :wave::clap:


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## Typhoon859 (Apr 9, 2010)

Thanks to both of you guys. I appreciated both of your inputs. I feel neither one of you were rude or disrespectful and I can formulate my own opinion based on the accuracy of where other people's opinions comes from.

Everyone has a right to post however, and everyone has a right to call them stupid for it. Thank you NeedSpeed for standing up for a cause and being respectful towards me, but I feel Timoteo has been the same and has also been more than cooperative with your criticism of his. Honestly, I personally would've gotten insulted that somebody was trying to discredit my input, especially if I felt it was well enough justified. NeedSpeed, you had a good point but IMO, you went too far with it. 

At any rate, thank you guys sincerely, but as this particular query goes, as I mentioned, I figured out what I think I would need for myself and it's pretty much settled. Thanks again. 


PS- Something like the SubDude for a subwoofer in no situation would be a bad thing right?


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Typhoon859 said:


> Thanks to both of you guys. I appreciated both of your inputs. I feel neither one of you were rude or disrespectful and I can formulate my own opinion based on the accuracy of where other people's opinions comes from.
> 
> Everyone has a right to post however, and everyone has a right to call them stupid for it. Thank you NeedSpeed for standing up for a cause and being respectful towards me, but I feel Timoteo has been the same and has also been more than cooperative with your criticism of his. Honestly, I personally would've gotten insulted that somebody was trying to discredit my input, especially if I felt it was well enough justified. NeedSpeed, you had a good point but IMO, you went too far with it.
> 
> ...



I don't think it was about being insulted, there was a difference of opinion that I took as personal, indeed I may have taken it a bit overboard steering off topic which was helping you with a decision which I believe you have made as you stated above. I agree that Tim had some good input with your decision making and I respect him for that and hold no ill feelings towards him, he got my adrenalin flowing and for me that's a good thing, I've had other positive discussions with him on another forum and did not realize it till now, I apologize if I was in any way disrespectful, that is not my MO. I'm glad Typ that you some how were able to make an informative decision from this query. A SubDude IMO could not be a bad thing, again I think it depends on the choice of subwoofer, others may chime in with their thoughts. Take care.
Jeff


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Typhoon859 said:


> PS- Something like the SubDude for a subwoofer in no situation would be a bad thing right?


I consider it a waste of money.


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

I have heard arguments for both sides of the coin when it comes to isolation platforms such as a SubDude. But my experience with them has been nothing but great. I will always have one under my subs from here on out. I started using one a few years ago when I lived in an apt. I even called the tenant below me & did a test. I played a scene from KingKong on bluray, once with my sub on the wood floor & once with it on the SubDude. The tenant confirmed that with the sub on the SubDude the bass was less audible & there were no vibrations in his place.

Keeping some of the bass from traveling to other rooms of a house is just one thing they do. The other benefit is that they improve the audible bass for you in the room it's in. They keep vibrations down & keep resonating harmonics down as well. This tightens up & cleans up the bass for you the listener. So it's a must have in my book!

I have owned 7 different subwoofers & I've used isolation platforms with 6 of them. The first 2 I bought were actual SubDudes HDs. Once I had them in hand I saw how easy they are to make. So the last 4 subs have had platforms I've made. I use the EXACT same materials the companies use. I found a foam shop in my area which helped. I've also used medium density foam from a fabric store. That foam was a little too soft though & the subs would tilt a little because of it. But the effects where just as good.

All you do is get some 1/2" mdf from home depot, cut it to size (add 2" to the exact length/width of sub for stability), use spray adhesive to attach some black cloth of choice, get the charcoal colored dense foam & cut 2 4" runners & glue them on the bottom sides running from to back to front, then glue some charcoal grey convoluted foam between the runners, now place your sub on top & enjoy!!! 

If you only need 1 platform then sometimes buying one makes sense. But if you need 2 or more then DIY is the way to go. I like doing things myself if possible so I like little projects. Plus if you build them you can make them the exact size you need. Had I bought the 2 I needed for my HSU subs it would have cost $160. Buy making them it cost me about $75 for both.

Whichever way you go I do say get them for your sub/s. addle:


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

GranteedEV said:


> I consider it a waste of money.


Grant, I was told the same thing when referring to my Epik subs, I don't want to ruffle any feathers here by saying they are a waste of money but rather not needed with my situation. With dual drivers I don't notice cab vibrations or shifting, they seem very inert, is this not the reason for subwoofer platforms. I would like to raise the feet an inch or so just to get my hands under the cabinets to move them when needed, would this be OK?
Jeff


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

I agree that if someone has a sub that has opposing drivers, which make the cabinet inert, then an isolation platform probably won't be needed. But any single driver sub should have a proper isolation platform under it. This was discussed very in depth over at Audioholics. I was a part of the discussion & I remember that a couple of the guys that felt they weren't needed had never tried one. I thought that was interesting. I have experience with them & my use of them has yielded noticable results. Have I measured the results therefore giving me scientific proof? No. But my ears & others ears have told us they work 

Epik subs probably don't need them.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Timoteo said:


> I agree that if someone has a sub that has opposing drivers, which make the cabinet inert, then an isolation platform probably won't be needed. But any single driver sub should have a proper isolation platform under it. This was discussed very in depth over at Audioholics. I was a part of the discussion & I remember that a couple of the guys that felt they weren't needed had never tried one. I thought that was interesting. I have experience with them & my use of them has yielded noticable results. Have I measured the results therefore giving me scientific proof? No. But my ears & others ears have told us they work
> 
> Epik subs probably don't need them.


Hey Timo, how are you my man? I will not say that these isolation platforms have no sonic benefit as I have never used them, I did inquire about them for use with Epik subs and was told they would not be detrimental nor beneficial, in other words not needed. Here is a quote from the Auralex site: It's purpose is to prevent sound from transmitting through your subwoofer to surrounding surfaces....Subwoofers create big vibrations (low frequencies) that you can feel in the floor and in objects placed nearby. When the source of the vibrations is coupled directly to the floor it causes these objects to vibrate or resonate: end quote.
In a reply to that quote, another quote: In a word: Hogwash. The source of said vibrations is the acoustic output of the speaker, not vibrating panels. Only if the sub is a total POS would the speaker panels vibrate so badly that they need isolating. The only useful purpose of these (sub platforms) is if the floor is structurally weak, so that it resonates in response to the acoustic output of the sub, and said resonance causes the floor to vibrate against the sub, not the other way around. Tim I don't doubt that you can discern a difference with or without a platform, if you can then by all means recommend them, I can not say either way as I have never used them, so I don't know which camp that puts me in, but for the DIYer it seems like a small investment for a sonic benefit that may or not be audible, I don't know if it could be measured objectively but subjectively it is open for discussion.
Jeff


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

Doing ok thanks Jeff!:T Home sick but other than that fine!...I getto respond quickly since I'm home watchin movies haha!!

I can understand people being hesitant with the use of a SubDude since it's such a simple product. My main reason for buying one at first was to keep some bass from bothering other tenants when I was in an apt a few yrs ago. But the audible benefit on my end (reduced in room vibrations) sold me on the product. Then when I had the tenant below me on the phone & did the blind test & he confirmed the difference in his room I was really sold.

It's not the panels of the sub itself vibrating & making noise I'm speaking of. Any single driver sub will vibrate when running pretty good. You place your hand on my VTf-15H when it's bumpin & it's vibrating a bit. Those vibrations transfer through the floor & walls & produce audible vibrations. Whether its internal or surface (pictures etc). The platform absorbes those & therefore cleans up what you hear. Of course when you have a good sub you will still have some things you need to treat with felt & stuff but a good portion is resolved with just the platform. Also, things such as walls will resonate at a certain frequency. These may become audible whether you know it or not. It's not until that is removed that you can truly hear just what the sub is doing.

If you have a concrete foundation or a sub like Epik, these situations most likely reduce the need for one. I've heard other say that they had audible improvements even with a house with a concrete foundation. I have always used mine either in an upstairs apt or my house with a raised, wood foundation. So I can only. Omment on my experiences in such an environment. 

As you said Jeff, it is a relatively small investment so that's why I recommend them. IMHO it can't hurt the sound & I truly believe most of the time there will be improvements.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Timoteo said:


> Doing ok thanks Jeff!:T Home sick but other than that fine!...I getto respond quickly since I'm home watchin movies haha!!
> 
> I can understand people being hesitant with the use of a SubDude since it's such a simple product. My main reason for buying one at first was to keep some bass from bothering other tenants when I was in an apt a few yrs ago. But the audible benefit on my end (reduced in room vibrations) sold me on the product. Then when I had the tenant below me on the phone & did the blind test & he confirmed the difference in his room I was really sold.
> 
> ...


Timo, I thought people got home sick when they are away from home, you're home watching movies!! My subs are on a carpeted concrete floor, there is some vibration when I put my hand on cab but not much to speak of, I don't have much rattling of objects close by, I really would like to make a platform just to do it, I have all the material at home so my cost would be $0. I understand single driver subs may experience the vibrations you describe but the VTF's cabinet construction seem they would not suffer any of these maladies. I don't notice any floor vibrations but rather a tidal wave of impact from everywhere like CPR, my wife will jump out of her seat some time, it scares her and excites at the same time, she is coming around to this experience as before she referred to my setup as a bunch of wires and boxes. I will make a couple of these platforms and at least make an informed opinion rather than dismiss them without having tried it. OK home sick, get better.
Jeff


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## Typhoon859 (Apr 9, 2010)

needspeed52 said:


> I don't think it was about being insulted, there was a difference of opinion that I took as personal, indeed I may have taken it a bit overboard steering off topic which was helping you with a decision which I believe you have made as you stated above. I agree that Tim had some good input with your decision making and I respect him for that and hold no ill feelings towards him, he got my adrenalin flowing and for me that's a good thing, I've had other positive discussions with him on another forum and did not realize it till now, I apologize if I was in any way disrespectful, that is not my MO. I'm glad Typ that you some how were able to make an informative decision from this query. A SubDude IMO could not be a bad thing, again I think it depends on the choice of subwoofer, others may chime in with their thoughts. Take care.
> Jeff


Well, I only mentioned it to finalize things on both sides. 



GranteedEV said:


> I consider it a waste of money.


Maybe it is. I just used "SubDude" as an example though. I didn't mean only and specifically them.



Timoteo said:


> I have heard arguments for both sides of the coin when it comes to isolation platforms such as a SubDude. But my experience with them has been nothing but great. I will always have one under my subs from here on out. I started using one a few years ago when I lived in an apt. I even called the tenant below me & did a test. I played a scene from KingKong on bluray, once with my sub on the wood floor & once with it on the SubDude. The tenant confirmed that with the sub on the SubDude the bass was less audible & there were no vibrations in his place.
> 
> Keeping some of the bass from traveling to other rooms of a house is just one thing they do. The other benefit is that they improve the audible bass for you in the room it's in. They keep vibrations down & keep resonating harmonics down as well. This tightens up & cleans up the bass for you the listener. So it's a must have in my book!
> 
> ...


Wow. Well, thanks for such a detailed response! It was unfortunate for me to read though because you put so much energy into what I already knew XD. 

I actually never bought one. In another setup of mine though, I built two of them for my subs. I was thinking at the very least that it would help with sound transferring to the floor. It certainly did that and my experience has also been like yours. I had some of the materials last time but this time I'd have to buy it. This is actually for my cousin and I'll leave it up to him, but he'll probably just buy one. Ends up being twice as expensive though. He also wants it to look good (mine aren't painted). 

People shared different opinions but nobody really indicated how in whatever situation it could be a bad thing which is what I was wondering. That being the case, I'll probably get one. 



needspeed52 said:


> Hey Timo, how are you my man? I will not say that these isolation platforms have no sonic benefit as I have never used them, I did inquire about them for use with Epik subs and was told they would not be detrimental nor beneficial, in other words not needed. Here is a quote from the Auralex site: It's purpose is to prevent sound from transmitting through your subwoofer to surrounding surfaces....Subwoofers create big vibrations (low frequencies) that you can feel in the floor and in objects placed nearby. When the source of the vibrations is coupled directly to the floor it causes these objects to vibrate or resonate: end quote.
> In a reply to that quote, another quote: In a word: Hogwash. The source of said vibrations is the acoustic output of the speaker, not vibrating panels. Only if the sub is a total POS would the speaker panels vibrate so badly that they need isolating. The only useful purpose of these (sub platforms) is if the floor is structurally weak, so that it resonates in response to the acoustic output of the sub, and said resonance causes the floor to vibrate against the sub, not the other way around. Tim I don't doubt that you can discern a difference with or without a platform, if you can then by all means recommend them, I can not say either way as I have never used them, so I don't know which camp that puts me in, but for the DIYer it seems like a small investment for a sonic benefit that may or not be audible, I don't know if it could be measured objectively but subjectively it is open for discussion.
> Jeff


Whatever the technicalities, my experience has proved positive and it does help with sound getting transferred. In any case, as long as it wouldn't impact the sound negatively, which was my question, even if there was the possibility of it doing nothing, it's worth it in my case. Thanks though, it's interesting to hear multiple perspectives.


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

Haha home sick I get it!! I should have said I'm at home & I'm sick 

Anytime you have a single driver sub the cabinet will vibrate at high volumes. This is because you have a single source from which the pistonic motion of the driver is coming from. Yes the cabinet if the 15H is massive & very well built but we are dealing with physics. Even a sub like the JL Gotham will have vibrations. Unless you have multiple drivers to cancel eachother out (vibration wise) a cabinet will always have some motion transfer.

You should give it a go & build one for your sub! It's a fine easy project. You have a concrete slab & a dual opposed driver sub so you may not get the improvements someone like me gets but it's worth a shot!!


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

Typhoon: oh no worries! I didn't know you knew so much about them or that you have experience with them. As far as a negative impact...I would say no. I'm no physics teacher though! :huh::nerd::rofl:


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Timoteo said:


> Haha home sick I get it!! I should have said I'm at home & I'm sick
> 
> Anytime you have a single driver sub the cabinet will vibrate at high volumes. This is because you have a single source from which the pistonic motion of the driver is coming from. Yes the cabinet if the 15H is massive & very well built but we are dealing with physics. Even a sub like the JL Gotham will have vibrations. Unless you have multiple drivers to cancel eachother out (vibration wise) a cabinet will always have some motion transfer.
> 
> You should give it a go & build one for your sub! It's a fine easy project. You have a concrete slab & a dual opposed driver sub so you may not get the improvements someone like me gets but it's worth a shot!!


Timo, I will make a couple of these, I have nothing to lose, I have the time and materials. I built my own speaker stands from an idea at TNT-Audio, a lot of good inexpensive tweaks there, anyway the stands are made from 1" thick oak hardwood-top and bottom plates, 4" schedule 40 PVC with 3/8" all thread through the PVC to connect the top and bottom plates filled with sand, very solid, heavy and well damped, I added spikes to couple the stands to the concrete floor through the carpet and listened to familiar tunes, I was pleased with the sound but felt the bass was lacking in depth and authority, I decided to put brass discs under the spikes and decouple the stands from the concrete floor and it was almost night and day difference. I realize that listening to stands sounds crazy but to me there was a significant improvement, what's this have to do with sub platforms, I guess it has the same principle of decoupling the sub from the floor I don't know. So in other words the platform under sub could not hurt and may do nothing for me but I will make that judgement after I try it. Get well soon home sick...
Jeff


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## Timoteo (Jan 7, 2012)

Nice!...look forward to hearing your thoughts!!...I will thanks!!


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## zheka (Jun 11, 2010)

@Typhoon859

I own a pair of Legends and can confirm that there is a bass boost at 25Hz. I do not know enough to judge if the boost is within acceptable range for sealed subwoofers but I wish there was a way to disable it.
I posted about my experience on the other forum, do not want to repeat myself here. 
I am thinking about selling mine, so, if you are not opposed to buying used, a pair of Legends could be another option more or less within your budget.


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## zheka (Jun 11, 2010)

Just remebered about this CS18.1 deal

http://www.chasehometheater.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5063

If I were in your situation this is what I'd buy


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## Driver_King (Sep 19, 2009)

I would have to agree with the above post. If I were in your situation and were looking for a the best pre-built subwoofer I could find for the money, I would no doubt go for the Chase sub.


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