# More than 2 subs?



## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Just curious if anyone is using more than 2 subs and if so why? I'm currently planning out my dedicated HT in my basement and will pre wire for an 11.4 system. I currently have 2 SVS PB-2000s which are phenomenal. Just wondering what an extra one or two would do for me. 
Anyone with more than 2 subs feel it's overkill? My room will be around 14x24x7


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I have eight eighteens in my room... and it is just about right. :whistling:

I always say the more the merrier, but you do have to be careful with placement because if you get them all at different distances from the main listening position, the delay can get rather challenging to get a good unified response.

If setup properly, multiple subs can help smooth out the low frequency response in the room, and add a little more effortlessness to the "feel" you get from the bass.

What I have done is place my front subs symmetrically and my rear subs symmetrically, so that my front subs act as one sub and my rear subs act as another sub, for the sake of distance/delay. I have a 5ft delay added (via my DEQ2496) to my front subs to account for the difference in distance from my main listening position to front and rear subs.

I would not think twice about adding another pair of PB2000's to the mix and experiment with the placements until you get them where you like them. Speaking of pre-wiring, you will need to have quite a few power outlets to make sure you can place the subs where you need them, as well as possibly more than just one interconnect outlet, unless you don't mind a little stretch of interconnect running to the sub.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I currently only have one sub but I am selling it and moving up to at least 2 subs. Years ago I had 4 or 5 subs (can't remember which) and even though they were inexpensive subs they sounded great. Back then I was using multiple subs to get the spl up on the cheap, while at the same time evening out the sound around the room. This time i will be doing it strictly to even the sound around the room, and I will most likely end up with either 3 or 4 subs this time.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Indeed, Sonnie is correct, multiple subs can really even out the sound in a room. However, as everyone will mention, there is a caveat, measure, measure, measure because using multiples can also mess up a room. Audyssey does help a bit by measuring distances and what have you but be careful and aware of room nodes or modes or icky places to put them.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Thanks for responses. I will never go back to a single subwoofer system now that I've heard 2 but wasn't sure if more 2 would hurt my cause at all. It's not quite in the budget for 2 more but a third is tempting. 

Thanks for the advice Sonnie, there will be plenty of outlets in the room. 8 eighteens eh? I like it!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

What AVR/processor are you using... does it have Sub HT EQ? If so, then you can place two subs up front, keep them symmetrical... likely both front corners of the room. Experiment with facing them towards the wall (4" between baffle/grill and wall) and out into the room... varying angles. Keep those two on one sub preout (y-adapter). Place the third sub in the rear via the other sub preout and experiment with its placement along the back wall. The Sub HT EQ will keep your distance and levels matched and then equalize all subs together.

This is why I really like using something like a miniDSP or the DEQ2496 prior to Audyssey. I can get my distance/delay setup properly for better placement experimentation prior to running Audyssey. I can also knock down any drastic peaks that Audyssey may sometimes have issues with.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

I have the Onkyo 818 so unfortunately no sub eq. I'm going to put the two I have up front outside the mains to start and see how it works but I like the idea of having an extra one or two in the back of the room.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

You might experiment with the phase adjustment on the rear sub.

Of course REW will help you see a better picture of what is happening.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

I've never used REW but once my room is built I'll be utilizing that for sure. I'm coming from an old Velodyne CT-8 so these subs are my first foray into the world of real bass. Just hooked up in my living room without any type of calibration blows me away so I'm very much looking forward to having a dedicated room to start watching my 800 Blu-ray discs all over again ha.


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## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

I have 3 PSA XV-15's...added the third to knock down a healthy peak around 32hz which it did. I use my subs as end tables in a nearfield enviroment and it works really well...the bass surrounds all seats seamlessly and the tactile sensation is unreal. I would never go back to a single sub and I would add a 4th if I had the room. When the time comes I can build a dedicated theatre, 4+ subs will be used. With REW and a good EQ, integrating multiples is not that difficult.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Very cool basshead, thanks. Was just wondering if having more than 2 was overkill but glad it seems to be semi common. I'll need some type of eq though I believe.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I don't think Sonnie will be happy until he digs a 200 foot concrete cylinder under the house which house six of those woofers from Back to the Future


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Andre said:


> I don't think Sonnie will be happy until he digs a 200 foot concrete cylinder under the house which house six of those woofers from Back to the Future


Years ago I remember seeing where there was a trend in the UK to build sub enclosures out of your basement and have the sound come through vents in the floor. There is a picture of one floating around on the net where they built a horn loaded sub that took up the whole basement.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Ha, guess there are all types of bass nuts out there.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yeah... some of us crazier than others. I have seen a lot worse than me though. Scary!


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Sonnie said:


> Yeah... some of us crazier than others. I have seen a lot worse than me though. Scary!


Here is the guy that made his basement into a sub... http://gizmodo.com/5025867/horn-subwoofer-takes-up-crazy-mans-entire-basement


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Wow that is insane. Guess I shouldn't feel bad about wanting 2 more subs even if it's not necessary ha.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

hockeypucks said:


> Just curious if anyone is using more than 2 subs and if so why? I'm currently planning out my dedicated HT in my basement and will pre wire for an 11.4 system. I currently have 2 SVS PB-2000s which are phenomenal. Just wondering what an extra one or two would do for me.
> Anyone with more than 2 subs feel it's overkill? My room will be around 14x24x7


4 Hsu 15s and one Velodyne 18 in a 12x20x8 room. Sounds just great.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Oh, and by the way, look up co-location for subs. Putting two close together gives more output than two separated. I have my 4 Hsus set up as two pairs.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Are they literally next to each other? I thought of this as well but only have the two right now. Very tempted to order a third soon but gotta build my room first.


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## Basshead81 (Apr 9, 2013)

Here is a pic of my sub placement







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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

hjones4841 said:


> 4 Hsu 15s and one Velodyne 18 in a 12x20x8 room. Sounds just great.


Sounds like a tight fit with the rest if your setup.


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## spytech (May 22, 2012)

hockeypucks said:


> Just curious if anyone is using more than 2 subs and if so why? I'm currently planning out my dedicated HT in my basement and will pre wire for an 11.4 system. I currently have 2 SVS PB-2000s which are phenomenal. Just wondering what an extra one or two would do for me.
> Anyone with more than 2 subs feel it's overkill? My room will be around 14x24x7


Those are the exact dimensions of my theater room, I feel more than 2 subs would be overkill, but 2 are required. I have 1 on the front left 4 foot from the [email protected] Degree to room and 1 on the right rear same distance. It balances out the room modes for me in that config. Bass is in the center of the room with 2 units setup this way. If the room was a little larger 4 would not be out of the question though.
JMO


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## robertintemple (Oct 28, 2013)

FWIW, I have 11 subs. 4 18's and 7 12's. There's some serious DSP horsepower running them and at some frequencies some of the subs even run out of phase. Net result is bass response is phenomenal in the room. Is 11 too many or not enough? Believe it or not at "excessive" spl's I've heard them run out. Fortunately for normal (reference level) listening they have plenty of headroom.


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## spytech (May 22, 2012)

robertintemple said:


> FWIW, I have 11 subs. 4 18's and 7 12's. There's some serious DSP horsepower running them and at some frequencies some of the subs even run out of phase. Net result is bass response is phenomenal in the room. Is 11 too many or not enough? Believe it or not at "excessive" spl's I've heard them run out. Fortunately for normal (reference level) listening they have plenty of headroom.


I was commenting on having 2, 3, or 4 subs. Why are you telling me this?.
It must be a massive room....
What are you trying to achieve?
I compare this to, I have a truck with 213" wheels on it, WOW.....LOL


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

B- one said:


> Sounds like a tight fit with the rest if your setup.


Yep, just enough room to walk around


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

All interesting feedback thanks. Those look great in your basement basshead. Some may say they're too big but I like how dominating a sub can look.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Good to know someone else has the same dimensions I do spytech. If you say 2 get it done nicely then I may be ok. Not sure how much room I'll have on my front wall though since I have a 135" screen and may be doing a wide 7.2(+) setup so I'll need to experiment with placement.


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## spytech (May 22, 2012)

hockeypucks said:


> Good to know someone else has the same dimensions I do spytech. If you say 2 get it done nicely then I may be ok. Not sure how much room I'll have on my front wall though since I have a 135" screen and may be doing a wide 7.2(+) setup so I'll need to experiment with placement.


The placement for number 1 would be back from the front wall about 3-4 feet on the left side. then 3-4 feet from the backwall on the right side for number 2. both pointing towards the center of the room. I used 2 Polk PSW505's for my setup.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

I will definitely try that placement thanks. I would like to put the two I have in the middle of the side walls and possibly add a third for the middle of the rear wall which would surround the listening field but not sure how it would sound. I'm sure my dual PB-2000s will be plenty but this is my first dedicated HT build and I want it to be as cinema like as I can get. From what I've read about properly built rooms they can sound better than the cinema.


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## robertintemple (Oct 28, 2013)

spytech said:


> I was commenting on having 2, 3, or 4 subs. Why are you telling me this?.
> It must be a massive room....
> What are you trying to achieve?
> I compare this to, I have a truck with 213" wheels on it, WOW.....LOL


I was just trying to point out that achieving realistic bass in a room is not a trivial task. Total cost of this room is over $700k and like I mentioned, it will run out of steam in the bass department at extreme levels. Bass is hard. The room is 16x24x10 btw.
Now, achieving "adequate" bass in a room is a little easier (and a lot less expensive) In my family room (which is 14x26x8) I have two Sunfire HRS10's and they do quite a good job.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

hockeypucks said:


> Just curious if anyone is using more than 2 subs and if so why? I'm currently planning out my dedicated HT in my basement and will pre wire for an 11.4 system. I currently have 2 SVS PB-2000s which are phenomenal. Just wondering what an extra one or two would do for me.
> Anyone with more than 2 subs feel it's overkill? My room will be around 14x24x7


In my opinion, above room smoothing issues, an extra one or two SB-2000s will do little as the gain is on the top end, not the bottom end.

One sub placed nearfield behind the MLP and one on the other side of the room near the flat screen side of the room will give you the best bang for you buck but if wanting more than what you currently have, you'll need to leapfrog the subwoofer system you already have. Just saying, if wanting more, sell the two SB-2000s, buy a pair of PB12-pluses or Ultras and be done with it. If that's not enough, step up to a pair of Rythmik FV15HPs and if still wanting more, go for a pair of JTR Captivator S2s.

The point, you get where you want to go by buying what you want to get.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Is the jump from a PB2000 to the Plus series as big as going from the 1000 to 2000 or is it bigger? I like the performance/cost ratio of those PC12-Plus subs but budget may only call for what I currently have.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

hockeypucks said:


> Is the jump from a PB2000 to the Plus series as big as going from the 1000 to 2000 or is it bigger? I like the performance/cost ratio of those PC12-Plus subs but budget may only call for what I currently have.


It's a matter of baby steps vs BIG GIANT steps and where you want to be when you've made your purchase.

In my opinion, going from a PB1000 to a PB2000 is a baby step. Going from a PB1000 to a PC12-Plus is a GIANT step.

When you finish putting your subwoofer system together, what are you're expectation?

As to budgets and what you have, buy a single PC12-Plus and later when you're able, add a second matching PC12-Plus. Nothing says you can't buy one at a time. Place the first one nearfield and dial it in. This way you'll get the smoothing response and the most tactile sensation out of a single subwoofer system. Later, when finances allow, add a second PC12-Plus to add to output, depth of extension and smoothing out those nasty room nodes.


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

That is a very tempting idea but something tells me I won't be happy with just one sub. Though SVS has outstanding subs so it's still quite tempting. I could probably swing one PC13-Ultra but a second down the road would be a very long road ha. I love the giant, in your face look and feel to the PB plus and ultra but the PC is a substantial amount cheaper when at the limits of the budget. 

I'm always trying to find the next thing that will make me happy and I believe I've come close with my current dual PB-2000s but I keep wondering what if. I may just order a PC12-PLUS and make my decision then. Thanks for your input as always. Oh and for posting images I believe you need either 10 or 25 posts before you can upload an image.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

hockeypucks said:


> That is a very tempting idea but something tells me I won't be happy with just one sub.


The simple version, you won't. If you think you won't, it's because you know you won't.



> I'm always trying to find the next thing that will make me happy and I believe I've come close with my current dual PB-2000s but I keep wondering what if.


From personal experience, it's a safe bet, a pair of Rythmik FV15HPs will end the wondering. Full on reference capability down to 16Hz in a 3300^3 room and right next to full on reference at 10Hz....but not quite. You'd have to go to a pair of JTR Captivator S2s to beat out the over all depth and output of a pair of FV15HPs.

A pair of FV15HPs are a bit more than a single Ultra but a whole lot less than a pair of Ultras. They also have the size, but in my opinion, the FV15HP blends a bit better than the Ultras do and in my above, I'm not knocking anything that SVS makes and sells.


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## workingclass (Feb 15, 2014)

BeeMan458
The point said:


> It's taken me some time, but I think I'm learning this one..


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Hmm I'll have to look into those subs but I'm not sure I can swing the price tag. I want the most sub I can get but going dual with a really high end ($2k) sub is a but much. However, I don't want to be here in a year so part of me thinks it'll be smarter in the long run.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Just saying, two Ultras are close to $4,000.00. Two FV15HPs, delivered, $2,700.00


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## hockeypucks (Aug 16, 2013)

Oh I hear ya, but I didn't want to go over 2k. Two ultras are out of the question and even the FV15hp seems too much so perhaps I'll end up keeping what I have and upgrade within the year. Thanks for the help


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

I'm sure you'd be very happy with what a single PC12-Plus has to offer and later when able, add a matching PC12-Plus will put you over the top.

If you can, place the single subwoofer in a nearfield position behind the MLP to get the most tactile sensation out of the subwoofers output. From studies I have read elsewhere, it takes an additional +10dB of output to equal the output of a nearfield placed subwoofer.

Image of the second subwoofer placed in a nearfield position. This close and you're getting a boatload of extra tactile sensation.



For it's smaller footprint, I had originally planned to put a PC12-Plus there but wanted a lower profile and more output.


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