# 4 entry level subs or 1 high end one?



## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

My room is not a dedicated home theater room it is a living room and workout place. So I was thinking 4 below 400usd subs like the PL-200, F12 or PSW505 would be better plus I can buy them 2 at a time the other sub I am looking at is the SVS-PB2000 but will be able to buy probably 1 every few months.... PS is this the right sub group for this question?

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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

There are a number of factors to consider with your situation...

Why 4 subwoofers, was it because of the total cost or for a different reason?
How many seats are you trying to cover? Multiple subs have benefits when you want to smooth our room modes but if you only have 1 viewer most of the time then that benefit diminishes.
How large is your room (HWD)? The total volume of space plays a huge roll in deciding what would or wouldn't work.
What are your preferences? Do you like quality sound or are you most interested in total volume? Do you listen to any music on this system?

You quoted a price for the different subwoofers you're looking at by saying USD, so I assume you are not in the US? If so, what country do you live in? In the US we have options not available everywhere else.


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## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

theJman said:


> There are a number of factors to consider with your situation...
> 
> Why 4 subwoofers, was it because of the total cost or for a different reason?
> How many seats are you trying to cover? Multiple subs have benefits when you want to smooth our room modes but if you only have 1 viewer most of the time then that benefit diminishes.
> ...


1. Total cost (plus inspite of my living room being small it is not closed their is an open stairway leading up was thinking of placing one sub by the stairs) I can probably just spend 400usd to 600usd per 4 months I have an old Polk DSW-MICROPRO 3000 from my old system I will use for now.

2. I couch 3 seats

3. I am still waiting on my laser measurement thingy will take pictures as well and post once it arrives.

4. I want some quality for musics as well as chest thumping base for when my Pioneer elite receivers get here. Doing an atmos 7.4.4 setup. The priority is home theater as well. By the end of it I will add a 4 projector as well.

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## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

theJman said:


> There are a number of factors to consider with your situation...
> 
> Why 4 subwoofers, was it because of the total cost or for a different reason?
> How many seats are you trying to cover? Multiple subs have benefits when you want to smooth our room modes but if you only have 1 viewer most of the time then that benefit diminishes.
> ...


Ok guys my measuring tape is finally here the dimensions are length 10-10 feet, width 8-9 feet, height 7-8 feet.

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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Are you certain of those dimensions? That's less than 800 ft^3, which is a pretty small room. With a TV, speakers, couch and perhaps an end table or two I can't imagine there being space to fit 4 subs.


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## AustinJerry (Apr 2, 2010)

carlobenavidesahavia said:


> My room is not a dedicated home theater room it is a living room and workout place. So I was thinking 4 below 400usd subs like the PL-200, F12 or PSW505 would be better plus I can buy them 2 at a time the other sub I am looking at is the SVS-PB2000 but will be able to buy probably 1 every few months.... PS is this the right sub group for this question?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


Absolutely, four reasonably-priced, and reasonably-performing subs will outperform a single sub, regardless of how good it is. You may find that this thread answers your question: AustinJerry's Set-Up - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews


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## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

theJman said:


> Are you certain of those dimensions? That's less than 800 ft^3, which is a pretty small room. With a TV, speakers, couch and perhaps an end table or two I can't imagine there being space to fit 4 subs.


So I can just put in 2 max. I just need it to fit a 100 inch projector screen and fill the room with bass.

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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

The number of subs you use depends upon several factors so there's not one set answer. Your room is small so unless you have seating locations spread wide apart multiples may not be very beneficial. Having more than one sub is recommended to balance out room modes, but that's only accomplished through careful placement and measuring the results. It takes time, effort and knowledge to really make it work. If your goal is to just place them where they look the best than you're unlikely to get much benefit. Also remember that multiple mediocre subs will just be louder, the sound quality is still mediocre. In most cases it's better to get quality over quantity.


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

AustinJerry said:


> Absolutely, four reasonably-priced, and reasonably-performing subs will outperform a single sub, regardless of how good it is.


I agree!


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## Will P (Jan 31, 2019)

carlobenavidesahavia said:


> So I can just put in 2 max. I just need it to fit a 100 inch projector screen and fill the room with bass.
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


I would get 4 subs and double stack them if there is room for 2 subs only.


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## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

Will P said:


> I would get 4 subs and double stack them if there is room for 2 subs only.


Thanks looking into the hsu vtf-2 mk5 will purchase 1 every 6 months till the room bass response is good..... another question would be is I have an old Polk DSW-Micropro 3000 can I run that with the VTF-2 Till I get to at least 2 subs? Is there a way to calibrate them to get them to run together and sound good?

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## Will P (Jan 31, 2019)

Ideally all the subs should be identical. They play in the same passband. That applies even more so when mixing ported and sealed subs. 
If you look for sound quality and phase accuracy I'd recommend sealed subs.


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## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

Will P said:


> Ideally all the subs should be identical. They play in the same passband. That applies even more so when mixing ported and sealed subs.
> If you look for sound quality and phase accuracy I'd recommend sealed subs.


Which subs would you recommend in particular? SVS?

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## Will P (Jan 31, 2019)

Yes, SVS would be a pretty good choice.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

carlobenavidesahavia said:


> Thanks looking into the hsu vtf-2 mk5 will purchase 1 every 6 months till the room bass response is good..... another question would be is I have an old Polk DSW-Micropro 3000 can I run that with the VTF-2 Till I get to at least 2 subs? Is there a way to calibrate them to get them to run together and sound good?
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


You CAN mix subs, but the phase responses will be different so you’ll likely have a bunch of Cancellations, especially around the port tuning. Also, the more capable subwoofer is usually held back by the lesser one, somewhat defeating the purpose. Also, I’m not a fan of sealed subs, but your room is pretty small, so a pair of good quality ones should do nicely. If you have options for placement, a single sub can be setup with great results. Duals main benefit is smoother response over a wider area. So if you only have one seat, the advantages might be lost, and you still have to place duals correctly as well. No such thing as plop n play.


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## Will P (Jan 31, 2019)

For music application I would consider sealed subs only, no compromise. But that's me.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Will P said:


> For music application I would consider sealed subs only, no compromise. But that's me.


While I personally disagree with the sealed thing, I recall this same poster in another forum and we discovered that it’s an HT based room with a very high percentage towards TV and films. I would personally agree with a nod to sealed if space or WAF is an issue and in this case it could be since the room is small, and then I’d recommend an HSU or Rythmik for best value.


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## Will P (Jan 31, 2019)

willis7469 said:


> ...I would personally agree with a nod to sealed if space or WAF is an issue and in this case it could be since the room is small, and then I’d recommend an HSU or Rythmik for best value.


+1


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## sealman (Jun 10, 2013)

For that small of a room I think he would be fine with dual 15's either sealed or vented.
HSU, Rythmic, PSA or SVS you really can't go wrong with any of these.


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

Check out the $29 JBL 12 thread on avsforum.com. The last couple pages we are discussing 1 sub vs 4 subs. If WAF is not an issue, then 4 subs moving 1mm is better than 1 sub moving 12mm in simple sealed enclosures.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

BP1Fanatic said:


> Check out the $29 JBL 12 thread on avsforum.com. The last couple pages we are discussing 1 sub vs 4 subs. If WAF is not an issue, then 4 subs moving 1mm is better than 1 sub moving 12mm in simple sealed enclosures.


This is juuuuust a little too much of a blanket. While there definitely are benefits, it’s much more complicated than that. Iirc that JBL driver thread came about because of the BOSS?


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

It is a blanket. Cone area rules. In the same thread, they show a comparison of 4 $29 12's versus the single $400-$500 21" sub that the BP6 enclosure is designed for. 2204cm2 of Sd vs 1680cm of Sd.

It might have.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

BP1Fanatic said:


> It is a blanket. Cone area rules. In the same thread, they show a comparison of 4 $29 12's versus the single $400-$500 21" sub that the BP6 enclosure is designed for. 2204cm2 of Sd vs 1680cm of Sd.
> 
> It might have.


I’m definitely going to browse the thread and see what it’s about. Seems interesting. IME, it’s far more involved than cone area.


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

If the displacement of 4 cheap speakers at 1mm travel is greater than the displacement of 1 expensive speaker at 15mm travel, then you are going to feel more bass. More than likely, you are going to get more distortion with the expensive speaker at 15mm. If a speaker moves, it distorts.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

BP1Fanatic said:


> If the displacement of 4 cheap speakers at 1mm travel is greater than the displacement of 1 expensive speaker at 15mm travel, then you are going to feel more bass. More than likely, you are going to get more distortion with the expensive speaker at 15mm. If a speaker moves, it distorts.


But it’s so much more than that. Let’s say you want to play movies that have content to 20hz. If you have a bunch of drivers or enclosures with an FS or f3 of let’s say 30hz, you can never get the extension out of them. So you might get louder bass, but not deeper. And what if the expensive driver is fully capable of 21mm? It should effectively be better, but still distortion free. I don’t think you can simply say, if a speaker moves it distorts. That’s a part of is function, moving. Technically anything can be considered distortion, but can i think it has to be measurable and shown to be high enough to actually hear. I’m gonna go through the JBL thread and see what those guys are talking about too.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

You got a link? I can’t seem to get where want. Is it the Black Friday thread?


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

$29 JBL 12


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

By the way, these bassheads are into content below 20hz!


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Yeah. I think they wer talking about building a devastator right? Iirc it was 29cuft. Link didn’t work. I’ll try safari...


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

They started a separate thread a couple of days ago.

JBL Devastator


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## shene (Aug 3, 2014)

I would( I did) go with one decent sub and later add a second one to match it. With speakers cheap is just that. They do more than any other component in your system as far as sound you want and like. I started with a single
SVS 13 inch ported cylinder, added another and later went to two sealed box SVS 16 ultras subs . There you are getting into a grand each but if you want lower cost ones that is what you get. Not bad but not nearly as good. For great system speakers I started with a pair of JBL horns, compression drivers, crossovers and 15 inch bass drivers for $1200 in 1975. That was a lot of money back then but still cheaper than the fully enclosed speakers with those drivers. Built my cabinets and still have those drivers (and cabinets) in use. Have added more since then, again in my enclosures. Problem is JBL won't sell you the individual drivers anymore unless you have the sales slip for the speakers they came in and need them as replacements. Gotta go to ebay or somewhere else for th good stuff unfortunately. Be careful that the ones you buy have good cones and surrounds and are fully functional. Reconing is expensive if you can even get new cones with voice coils.

If you want theater, spend something on your sub(s) and plan on eventually two of them to balance the sound in the room. A single one will have hot and dead spots too easily. Two or more smooth out the room sound. Tough to go from 4 insufficient subs to 8 insufficient subs. Room may be smoother but subs will still sound anemic. Go one good one that costs more than you wanted to spend, enjoy it till you get itchy for another and when you got the $ go for another the same.. Nice thing about SVS is free trial and shipping as well as trade up's.. PS all my other speakers are JBL drivers in home built cabinets. Most use compression drivers for midrange so not cheap, just lower cost than using their cabinets. Last forever. I built most of my speakers in the 1970's and haven't heard any that I like better.


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## Mazza (Jun 27, 2010)

Dr Geddes wrote a great paper on this topic - "Why Multiple Subs"

He directly addresses your question ....
"Why Multiple Subs"


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## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

Hi guys I decided to go DIY 21" inch subs in GSG mini marty kits. I figured it would be the best bang for the book and kick svs high end subs in the butt for cheap. Gonna buy the 4 pack and just 1 woofer for now and add more as I go along. Will invest in the Sinobsen 4650watt by 4 channel @4ohms to drive these beasts. I would figure this would be the most future proof decision I can make right now at a practical price too at half the most expensive model SVS has.

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## carlobenavidesahavia (Jan 18, 2020)

Bang for the buck*

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## AufVidyZen (Apr 15, 2011)

carlobenavidesahavia said:


> 1. Total cost (plus inspite of my living room being small it is not closed their is an open stairway leading up was thinking of placing one sub by the stairs) I can probably just spend 400usd to 600usd per 4 months I have an old Polk DSW-MICROPRO 3000 from my old system I will use for now.
> 
> 2. I couch 3 seats
> 
> ...


I have 4 10" Definitive Technology sub's in my listening room, which is "small" and L-shaped. This is more than enough to cause window
panes throughout the house to rattle, while watching rock'em-sock'em movies. 

For music, mainly classical. I want clarity of bass notes above all else. The Def Tech's are the same size as the woofers in my Martin Logan 
hybrids, so I effectively have 6 "subs". I detest "muddy bass". The main speakers in my 7.4 system are all planar magnetic M-L's, again 
because of their phase coherence over the upper frequency range. Push comes to shove, I will choose "clean bass" over "deep bass".

One piece of equipment essential to .4 sub channels is a digital crossover capable of room correction. I started with a miniDSP 2X4 which is
under $100, and upgraded to a miniDSP 2x4HD with the 2.0 Dirac software upgrade. Be prepared to spend a huge amount of time reading
Floyd O'Toole's "Sound Reproduction" and adjusting speaker placement and x-over settings. You will need a lot of patience and commitment
to get 4 sub's dialed in. The fact that you have an "open" sound field due to your stairway is a departure from most theoretical modeling of
bass frequencies in a room, as does my L-shaped room.


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## BP1Fanatic (Mar 28, 2011)

carlobenavidesahavia said:


> Bang for the buck*
> 
> Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk


Lol!


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