# Finishing Basement Theater - 11'-5" x 16'



## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Need advice on thread title. I am finishing my basement in a new construction home. Bathroom, large closet, bedroom, and of course the Theater. I assume 11'-5" x 16' for a theater is small, but base on the setup of the furnace, etc. the configuration I decided on was the best I could do. 

I have attached some photos of the soon-to-be theater. I just finished roughing in the electrical last night and now want to decide on a home theater so I can rough in speaker locations, etc. While we discuss I will continue roughing the electrical for the other rooms and getting someone to do the plumbing for the bathroom.

My budget is from $3K to $5K. I will upgrade later as I go, but the finishing of the basement is already tapping the pocket book enough. I also already have a 47" 1080p LCD, Blu-ray players, and Bose 3-in-1 system in the family room. However, this theater is all about me. 

I am thinking of a DIY screen, project, and some sort of system. Been out of the home theater game a while, so I don't know the "new-new". Help me out....

Thanks...


Bedroom Area and Entry to Theater








View of Theater from Bedroom Area








Theater with Projection Screen wall at the Rear








Another View of Projection Wall








View from Projection Wall thru Theater to Bedroom Area


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Does the $3-5K include the materials for finishing the theatre room or is this reserved for the equipment?

A DIY screen is an ideal way to save some cash and in some cases will look just as good as the most expensive roll down screen. Have a look in are DIY screen section.

For a receiver I highly recommend Onkyo, The TX SR805 is the one with the best bang for buck or if you can step it up a bit the 876 as it has the HQV Reon chip for the best upscailing of all video to 1080p.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

The $3K - $5K is strictly equipment...

I guess using the 38% rule, my first row is suppose to be 9.92' or 10' from screen or 6' from the back wall/curtain/french doors, correct?

I am going to close the off the theater from the bedroom area using a thick curtain or french doors.

And using the 1.54 for first row and 2.2 for second row ratios for determining the size of the screen, it appears I should use a 80" wide screen, correct?

If I want a 16:9 setup, then the screen will need to be 80" x 45" or for a 4:3 setup, the screen will be 80" x 60", correct?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

For an acoustically transparent screen, check out StewartAT/Phifer Sheerweave Chalk. For a paint on, read up on the Black Widow paint mix. Should be able to DIY either of those options for $400.

Look for an Epson 1080p projector - $2200
$700 for AVR, onkyo is a good choice
$1000 for 5 speakers (I'd go with an AT screen and 3 identical speakers across the front). Some folks like SVS, I'm a JBL guy myself. I"ve also bee spending some time with Aperions, which are nice, but not quite as bright as I like my speakers, probably good for someone who likes a warmer/darker speaker, or someone whose room isnt treated.

Speaking of which, invest $300 in some OC703 for treating first reflection points, at the least.

$500 for a sub from SVS or HSU

I only went over by $100, but you'd better throw in another $200 for cables/wire (monoprice.com). You might find a deal on the projector and get back under $500 that way.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Marshall and Tony gave you good advise (and I agree with them 100%) :T

Are you planning to use just one or two rows of seats???

Also, don't forget to use fiberglass on all walls cavities to avoid resonance problems ...:yes:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You will save yourself a fair bit of coin if you buy from an Internet only speaker manufacturer and in most cases get a far better product.
SVS as Marshall has already eluded to is a great place to look. They sell both Speaker packages and some of the best subs available. I highly recommend The PB13 Ultra for a sub.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

eugovector said:


> Speaking of which, invest $300 in some OC703 for treating first reflection points, at the least.


Treating reflection points? You lost me there...I can guess what you mean, but I would need more info to understand




salvasol said:


> Marshall and Tony gave you good advise (and I agree with them 100%) :T
> 
> Are you planning to use just one or two rows of seats???
> 
> Also, don't forget to use fiberglass on all walls cavities to avoid resonance problems ...:yes:


Two rows of 3 seats...I wanna have 24" of walkway on each side, so I am looking at no more than 7'-6" in width for the seats.

Fiberglass on wall cavities? Are you speaking of insulation? I plan to use a R-11 or R-19 in all of my finished walls. The white fiber insulation, not the pink.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Thanks for the equipment advice, but I really need some layout advice as well. I need to go to Lowe's or Home Depot today to get the supplies to finish roughing in the speaker locations, etc. 

What do you all recommend, 7.1 or 5.1? I was thinking of just putting in wall outlets for 7.1, but not use the extra two in case I go with the 5.1. I will have expansion or upgrade ability that way. Can I get hints on the locations. I am thinking I need an HDMI and CATV outlet on the ceiling by the projector, speaker inlet receptacle center of room on projector screen wall, and speaker outlets center and corner of projector wall with outlets in the side walls for for the surround speakers. 

Advice?

Also, what should be the mounting height for all the speakers?


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

TwistaHSH said:


> What do you all recommend, 7.1 or 5.1? I was thinking of just putting in wall outlets for 7.1, but not use the extra two in case I go with the 5.1.


If you're planning two rows ...definetely I'll go with 7.1, you can use it as 5.1 to start (in case that you'll be using just the front row and later on add the second row).



> Also, what should be the mounting height for all the speakers?


Front speakers (L+R+C) need to be at ear level (around 32"-38"), surrounds and back surrounds can be 2'-3' above ear level (6'-7' from floor).



> Can I get hints on the locations.


Surrounds between two rows and back surrounds in the back wall ...if you use a 5.1 to start, you can either use side or back speakers (whichever sounds the best to you :bigsmile

EDIT: I forgot, you're right the insulation R11 or R19 is what I meant to fill the cavities on all walls and ceiling too.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

TwistaHSH said:


> Thanks for the equipment advice, but I really need some layout advice as well. I need to go to Lowe's or Home Depot today to get the supplies to finish roughing in the speaker locations, etc.
> 
> What do you all recommend, 7.1 or 5.1? I was thinking of just putting in wall outlets for 7.1, but not use the extra two in case I go with the 5.1. I will have expansion or upgrade ability that way. Can I get hints on the locations. I am thinking I need an HDMI and CATV outlet on the ceiling by the projector, speaker inlet receptacle center of room on projector screen wall, and speaker outlets center and corner of projector wall with outlets in the side walls for for the surround speakers.
> 
> ...


Wire's cheap while the walls are open. I'd run the wire for 7.4, but only use 5.1 to start with. Look to Dolby and THX's speaker guides for ideas on placement. I have a conversation with Jim in my next podcast on speaker placement, he's a fan of Dipoles in the surrounds, and doesn't think 7.1 is currently worth the trouble (I'm probably over-generalizing for his taste there).

Also, make sure you run a couple lengths of cat-6 to every room in the basement, there are a hundred uses for those runs from networking home theater content, to extending audio/video signals. Compare prices of all your raw wire to what you could purchase for at monoprice.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

TwistaHSH said:


> Treating reflection points? You lost me there...I can guess what you mean, but I would need more info to understand


2" of Owens Corning 703 or a similar material at the points where sound will come from your speakers (LCR at minimum) and hit the ears of your listeners. You can either build these into the wall, and then use a transparent cloth instead of drywall for a built-in look, or build traditional walls, and hang these panels like pictures when you're finished.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Thanks everyone...great information...keep it coming.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Great recommendations so far!

You're willing to DIY the screen, would you be willing to DIY a subwoofer? Check ebay for a used projector with low hours. I bought mine with 40 hours on it at close to $1000 off of retail and have never had any trouble with it. Epson is a good brand, Panasonic is another to look at. Onkyo has an updated line of receivers coming out so you may be able to find a good deal on a closeout. If you could save another $500 on the projector and receiver combined and put it into the subwoofer you'll have $1000 which puts you close to an SVS Ultra, which by everything I've read is the grand daddy of performance/price.

Or.... $1000 could build a killer DIY subwoofer :R. What is adjacent to the theater room besides the bedroom? Would there be a place to build in a subwoofer box so that the box is on the other side of the theater wall with an opening into the theater?

Definitely wire for 7.1, but save money on your initial purchase for higher quality speakers by going 5.1. You can add the other 2 later.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For speaker wire run 14awg wire to all locations and don't buy the expensive wire from any of the big box audio stores just get it from Lows or Home Depot in a spool. You will save more than half the price and there is no audible difference.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

thxgoon said:


> Great recommendations so far!
> 
> You're willing to DIY the screen, would you be willing to DIY a subwoofer? What is adjacent to the theater room besides the bedroom? Would there be a place to build in a subwoofer box so that the box is on the other side of the theater wall with an opening into the theater?
> 
> Definitely wire for 7.1, but save money on your initial purchase for higher quality speakers by going 5.1. You can add the other 2 later.


Thanks...yes I am willing to DIY any and everything. I framed about a third of the basement before schedule made me get a couple of laid off carpenters from the builder to finish it up. I am doing all the electrical too. Matter of fact use to build speaker boxes and install car audio for a while too. So I am familiar with it, hopefully its not too different. 

What do you recommend for a DIY subwoofer? 

As for what's adjacent...besides the bedroom and open area below the stairs that will be all finished, the bordering wall for the theater is the unfinished storage area. Plenty of room to have the sub box.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> For speaker wire run 14awg wire to all locations and don't buy the expensive wire from any of the big box audio stores just get it from Lows or Home Depot in a spool. You will save more than half the price and there is no audible difference.


Monoprice may still be cheaper, 14AWG inwall (make sure you get CL2 inwall) is 32 cents per foot if you buy it on a 100 foot spool (including shipping). Cheaper is you're buying other cables at the same time, saving on shipping.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

So what's the difference between the CL2 InWall for $0.32/ft versus Home Depot's Clear Digital HD wire for $0.24/ft? Is the CL2 a better grade or is it simply because its rated for inwall? Is there really a difference?

But, you do make a good point about getting other cables at the same time. I will need at least 20' of HDMI cable for the roughin for the projector and maybe CAT6 and VGA as well to display content from my computer network.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

TwistaHSH said:


> As for what's adjacent...besides the bedroom and open area below the stairs that will be all finished, the bordering wall for the theater is the unfinished storage area. Plenty of room to have the sub box.


Excellent :devil:



> What do you recommend for a DIY subwoofer?


It depends on how large you're willing to make the box and how much you want to spend. An 18" Maelstrom X tuned to 15hz in a 15 cubic foot box powered by the Behringer EP2500 would do a nice job with 119db at 20hz and 115 down to 13hz before room gain :bigsmile:. There are several other solutions as well but you'll want to think through subwoofer placement as a build like this would be permanent and you wouldn't want to build it in a spot that had bad response. The best thing to do would be to wait until all of the walls are up and test possible locations with another sub... but it's much more convinient before the sheetrock goes up. 

Do you have a diagram of the room and it's surroundings?


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Here you go...I need to update it, but its an accurate depiction


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

TwistaHSH said:


> So what's the difference between the CL2 InWall for $0.32/ft versus Home Depot's Clear Digital HD wire for $0.24/ft? Is the CL2 a better grade or is it simply because its rated for inwall? Is there really a difference?
> 
> But, you do make a good point about getting other cables at the same time. I will need at least 20' of HDMI cable for the roughin for the projector and maybe CAT6 and VGA as well to display content from my computer network.


Yes, the clear digital is not rated for in-wall use, so if you ever had a fire, your insurance company might deny the claim. Home Deport may have less expensive CL2 wire than home depot, I'm just saying make sure you're not paying more than 32 cents/ft.

I'm looking at your layout, and maybe you're already planning on doing this, but I'd run all my wire to the adjacent storage area and make yourself an equipment rack in there (use an ir repeater to maintain remote control). That way, it's out of sight for a nice clean install, and you can give yourself plenty of room to get behind the equipment whenever you want without having to crawl around or fiddle with a mess of wires. With all your equipment in the next room (if you still want access to the front, build in a wall cutout), and the inwall subwoofer already mentioned, you'd have a really clean install.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

eugovector said:


> and you can give yourself plenty of room to get behind the equipment whenever you want without having to crawl around or fiddle with a mess of wires.


+1. That storage area opens up a lot of opportunities for you.

As for a subwoofer you are good for any design you'd like. If you could design the doorway to provide a good seal to the area you could go Infinite Baffle or even SLLT. I priced out the 18" sub mentioned above and it comes in at about $700 before materials. This would be hard to beat IMO.


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## Space (Jul 18, 2007)

What about that framed area? What do you plan to do with it? A framed room inside another room is pointless if attention to mass is not part of the build. Insulation, typically pink fluffy as they say, is an integral part of a mass-air-mass design. Wall design applies to the ceiling...it's just another wall that is laying down on the job:0

I don't know how it works around here, but if the 38% "rule" refers to what Wes Lachot commented on, it is not a rule. It is a starting position, nothing more nothing less.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Space said:


> What about that framed area? What do you plan to do with it? A framed room inside another room is pointless if attention to mass is not part of the build.


Are you referring to acoustics?


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## Space (Jul 18, 2007)

Yes sir...


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## Space (Jul 18, 2007)

Let me rephrase my answer. I am referring to sound containment/isolation and damping of panels.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Not sure what you are meaning about a framed room inside another room, but as for the theater my plan is to use a draw curtain or french doors to separate the theater from the bedroom area. The entire finished portion walls and ceiling will be insulated, but not with the pink stuff, but probably with that safe and sound or R-11 or R-19.

As for the idea of putting the equipment rack in the storage area that is a great idea. Didn't think of it, but I think that is a go.


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## Space (Jul 18, 2007)

My opinion, the room is as important as the gear, many have this same notion. Paying attention to your build at this level will be beneficial to you in many ways. One benefit is that the sound of your theater will stay mostly inside the room and the outside noise will stay outside of the room. Another is sound going from your overhead area to the above living area, or vice-versa.

You have a good start, if it was mine, I would read up some more on isolation of sound as it applies to your theater. Think about every electrical device you install in a wall. It is a potential leak in and out for sound.

This part of your build has many details that have nothing to do with wire or gear or seat placement.

I'm just saying.

Even the can lights already have made holes that sound will leak upstairs through.

If having your sound stay in and not bother anyone outside, or outside noise not bother you, this is where it all begins.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Space said:


> My opinion, the room is as important as the gear, many have this same notion. Paying attention to your build at this level will be beneficial to you in many ways. One benefit is that the sound of your theater will stay mostly inside the room and the outside noise will stay outside of the room. Another is sound going from your overhead area to the above living area, or vice-versa.
> 
> You have a good start, if it was mine, I would read up some more on isolation of sound as it applies to your theater. Think about every electrical device you install in a wall. It is a potential leak in and out for sound.
> 
> ...


Yeah I get what you are saying...but, the furthest I will go is insulation in all finished walls and ceilings, the curtain or french doors, and maybe the isolating panels or whatever placed strategically around the room. Not really looking for a professional theater, in all honesty a nice screen, projector, PS3, and a package avr/speaker set...like the Onkyo HTS9100 is good with me.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

For a $1000 that looks pretty good. SVS has http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm which is pretty highly regarded. Sonnie had it and says it's one of the best sounding systems he ever had. That includes systems from Boston Acoustics and Martin Logan.

With this receiver you're not much above $1000 but no subwoofer yet. A sub can be DIY'd for as little as $300 and it would kick the pants off of the one from the HTIB. The sub IMHO is one of those things that is worth the extra money.

Here's some good drivers for DIY from Exodus audio. There are several other companies as well but this will give you and idea. Parts Express for less expensive solutions.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

thxgoon said:


> With this receiver you're not much above $1000 but no subwoofer yet. A sub can be DIY'd for as little as $300 and it would kick the pants off of the one from the HTIB. The sub IMHO is one of those things that is worth the extra money.


So are you saying get the receiver for about $450 and DIY sub for $300, which leaves $250 for surround speakers to stay around $1000 or maybe a little more? You think the receiver in the HITB is way below the one you mentioned? Also what if I get the HTIB for $1000 and then do DIY sub to replace or add to the one in the HTIB?

And what about this receiver? www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00...c/obidos/ASIN/B0015S8PGW/interactiveda8749-20 Is it the upgrade to the 605?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Several things:

Your amazon link is broken.
The receiver in the 9100 should be almost identical to the 606
If you're buying onkyo, check shoponkyo.com first for refurb deals
The panels I was recommending were not for sound isolation, but rather, to treat in room reflections that are detrimental to good theater sound.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

eugovector said:


> Several things:
> 
> Your amazon link is broken.
> The receiver in the 9100 should be almost identical to the 606
> ...


Thanks...fixed the link and yes I stand corrected, I was thinking reflection, but type isolation which was the subject.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

I was originally basing the cost off of Eugovectors breakdown of your $3500 budget, trimming a few hundred off of the projector and receiver to leave you $1000 for the subwoofer. I would recommend putting as much into the main speakers as possible as that will be where you'll get the most performance benefit. $1,000 for the SVS package and Onkyo receiver, and as much as you're willing to spend on the subwoofer. Whatever's left for the projector.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Okay fellas here is what I have been considering:

Onkyo HTS9100 HTIB	$1,000 
Sony Playstation 3 $ 400 
DIY Screen $ 400 
Epson PowerLite Home $1,800 
Cinema 3LCD Home Theater 
Projector - Model HC6100

Total $3,600 

This is assuming that the receiver that comes in the 9100 HTIB is good enough to upgrade the speakers if I deem neccessary. In addition, it assumes that I can add or replace the HTIB subwoofer with a DIY or better SVS brand.

The Epson projector seems to be the next best thing and its on sale right now at Best Buy.

Now I hear people mentioning SVS speakers, but is there a certain model that will go best with the Onkyo receivers? Say if I didn't get the HTIB and purchased one of the receivers mentioned, which SVS package would be best? Or if I wanted to replaced the HTIB speakers with SVS?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

TwistaHSH said:


> Now I hear people mentioning SVS speakers, but is there a certain model that will go best with the Onkyo receivers? Say if I didn't get the HTIB and purchased one of the receivers mentioned, which SVS package would be best? Or if I wanted to replaced the HTIB speakers with SVS?


The SBS series is the only SVS Speaker in your price range. I think you're on a good path with upgrading the speakers, but if you want to work at it a little more, shop around. You should be able to find an Onkyo 706 refurb (pre-outs and more advanced Audyssey, among other things) for about $400 on shoponkyo.com. If you scour ebay, audiogone, craig's list for refurb/used speakers, you should be able to do 5 identical for $600 (JBL/Infinity has an official JBL reseller so you'll have a warranty). You'll still want to save up for a DIY or retail sub.

Starting with this approach will be more work and more money out of your pocket to start with, but if you know you'll be upgrading down the road anyway, it will save you from having an extra set of speakers and subwoofer around the house (though if you have a use for those as a bedroom system, they won't go unloved).

Whichever way you go, I think you'll be just fine.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

I was reading through some other posts and saw a good point made. What about gaming, Wii, xBox 360, and PS3...Is it feasible to have these items on a projecto? Will it be better to just get a huge DLP rear projection tv...as it would be better for daily viewing use, correct?


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

TwistaHSH said:


> I was reading through some other posts and saw a good point made. What about gaming, Wii, xBox 360, and PS3...Is it feasible to have these items on a projecto? Will it be better to just get a huge DLP rear projection tv...as it would be better for daily viewing use, correct?


Yes people do it all the time. The only thing is that projector lamps tend not to last as long as those in DLP rear projection sets. Some claim 400 hours others get less, the on/off affect tends to shorten their life span.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

carls64 said:


> Yes people do it all the time. The only thing is that projector lamps tend not to last as long as those in DLP rear projection sets. Some claim 400 hours others get less, the on/off affect tends to shorten their life span.


Carls, good looking room. Where did you get your seats? What size is your room?


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

Detailed information is in the first post of my build thread ;-) except for the room dimensions ;-) but a rough draft of the room can be found here: 

The room is roughly 25'3" Deep, and 12'5" wide and 7'5" at the highest point and 6'7" at the lowest right above the seating area so you can see I had a interesting time accommodating what I did.

The seats came used from www.seatsandchairs.com they were the Maco Marquee models.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

carls64 said:


> Yes people do it all the time. The only thing is that projector lamps tend not to last as long as those in DLP rear projection sets. Some claim 400 hours others get less, the on/off affect tends to shorten their life span.


I game on mine all the time and it isn't any harder on the projector than any other type of viewing. I got 1100hrs on the first lamp and I'm at 1300+ on the current bulb.


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Ok fellas, got an update. Finally heading into the home stretch here. I have completed all of the electrical and trimmed out all lights, etc., insulation, drywall, mud/taping, and paint is all done. Laid the floor in the bathroom, shower base installed, and currently installing vanity, sink top, toliet, and shower surround. 

Only thing that's left is carpet installation, base board installation, furniture, and installing the home theater components. (Pictures of the room to come).

Let me fore warn though, I went with a generic look, no too specialized as I was told you want your basement to look just like the rest of the house. So I didn't go full blown home theater dedicated look in the room. However, I may in the future.

Now the question. Here is what I order and should arrive Friday:


1 - PANPTAX200U: PROJECTOR, 720P, 2000 LUMENS, 10.8 LBS, LCD, 6000:1 CONTRAST

1 - ONKHTS7100B: HOME THEATER SYSTEM, RECVR/SPKRS 7 SPKR&SUB 1200W SYS(BLK)

1 - LIBEHDMM8: CABLE, 8 METER (APPROX 26.25 FT) HDMI TO HDMI

1 - SANVMPR1B: MOUNT, UNIVERSAL "VisionMount" SERIES CEILING, BLACK

1 - ELIR100WH1: SCREEN, 49"X 87" EZFRAME FIXED FRAME HDTV CINEWHITE (100" DIA)
Got the entire package shipped for $1985. Good price? Good first home theater start to build upon?


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

TwistaHSH said:


> Ok fellas, got an update. Finally heading into the home stretch here. I have completed all of the electrical and trimmed out all lights, etc., insulation, drywall, mud/taping, and paint is all done. Laid the floor in the bathroom, shower base installed, and currently installing vanity, sink top, toliet, and shower surround.


Ok so where is the pictures! :huh:


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## Space (Jul 18, 2007)

No doubt..we live for pictures!


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## TwistaHSH (Dec 12, 2008)

Here ya go...


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