# Best Budget *Small* Subs? (WAF issue)



## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Got back from seeing Tron Legacy last night, and hearing the excellent theater's sound system struggle with the LFE output, I realized I was simply going to _have_ to (finally) upgrade my sub before I can watch this movie at home. (Yes, I realize I have some time before that's a problem!) 

I currently have a Polk Audio PSW350. It's an ok little 10" sub (100w) that's performed reasonably well for me over the years, although I've always lusted after more. It's paired with my Klipsch RF35 mains, RC35 center and random surrounds. Does a decent job, but I've certainly pushed past it's abilities on movies here and there, when letting the sound have it's head.

SVS and HSU have long been on my shortlist, after reading up here and a couple other forums. I think I can squeeze roughly $500 out of the budget (yes, more like $550) for an upgrade, although it's going to hurt. 

The main issue I've come across is the size of the current sub cabinet, vs. the surprisingly larger options I had been looking at for replacement:

Polk (Current): 15" h x 13.5" w x 18.5" d
SVS PB10-NSD: 19" h x 15" w x 21" d
HSU VTF-2 MK 3: 22" h x 15" w x 23" d
HSU STF-2: 19” h x 14” w x 18" d

(Not as thrilled by the last option, but it's a lot cheaper and noticeably smaller)

An extra couple inches wide is ok, and an extra couple inches deep as well, but 4-7" taller is going to be a major problem on the WAF front.

EDIT: There is also the Epik Legend option I just read about. Interestingly a little smaller than the above subs:

Epik Legend: 18 H x 15 W x 20 D

Given the room layout , an iMac sits on top of the sub at the foot of the sofa. Here is a (lots of changes since this was taken, but the basics are the same, as is the sub) photo of the space: 










Yes, the 65" RP TV is huge, but I love my black levels _and_ large size screens, so until I can swing several thousand bucks for a 65" or bigger plasma, we're just looking at the sub for now. She's not complaining about the TV at this point.

Anyway, you can see how 4-7" of extra sub height is going to throw things out of whack, visually. The 15" Polk is pretty perfect. [EDIT: Not sure about the 3" higher from the Epik, that _might_ be ok... but I don't know much about Epik]

If it were 100% my decision, that wouldn't matter, but my interior designer wife barely tolerates the sub as it is... I think that much more visual impact just won't fly!

So I see SVS has a new sub since I last poked around, the SB12-NSD. It's actually _smaller_ than my current sub. And, I've noticed Emotiva, another company I've given consideration to in the past (mostly for their surrounds, though) has a nice looking option as well (and one of the cheaper options), the ULTRA SUB 12.

Polk (Current): 15" h x 13.5" w x 18.5" d
SVS SB12-NSD: 14" h x 14" w x 14” d (w/o grill)
ULTRA SUB 12: 14.5”h x 14.5” w x 15.25” d

Any thoughts on which of these two options would work best? Is the 400w SVS ($549) worth the premium over the 300w Emotiva ($429)? (I've mostly focused on SVS and HSU in the past so I don't know much about Emotiva's sub line... ditto for Epik.) Or are these not worth it and I should really beg and plead and pray for the larger options listed above?

I'm pretty sure ANY of these options are going to be a big step up from my current Polk... right?


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## FlashJim (May 6, 2006)

14.5" x 14.5" x 15.25" $429 shipped free.

http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

That is not a bad price for the Emotiva, I also like the look of the Epik range of subs and gathering by users feedback seem very well rated.

BTW: The SVS SB12+ is an excellent performer and is quite small considering its great performance, and has lots of WAF :T


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Have you looked at the new Lava subs? They are looking like a great bargain for the money. Dale did a nice review here..http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...245-lava-lsp12-subwoofer-review-new-post.html They also are haveing a sale on the 10"subs 2 for $399. http://www.lavasubs.com/


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

Tough call. The Emotiva ($429), Epik Legend ($499) and SVS SB12-NSB ($550) are all in the price range I can swing (although the SVS really strains the limits). I think they all work size-wise (although the Epik is biggest by far). I've seen the reviews of the Lava, and, while decent, I don't get the same warm fuzzy feeling from it as these others.

Clearly the Emotiva is the budget leader, and the SVS is the budget buster. The Epik is a wild card that I just don't know much about, although I've seen enough positive mention to know it must be pretty good.

Has anyone put any of these subs head to head? SVS definitely gives me the most warm fuzzies, but if anyone has any opinion or data that would point towards the other two as superior in any way, I'd love to hear it.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

If it was my money I would be urging toward the SVS subs as they have a great reputation and performance to match it with enough data to know it will play well.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I'm with John on the SVS sub i don't think you'll go wrong there, great build quality and reputation.:T


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

> Given the room layout , an iMac sits on top of the sub at the foot of the sofa. Here is a (lots of changes since this was taken, but the basics are the same, as is the sub) photo of the space:


Definitely get an Epik Legend. If for no other reason than the fact that the dual opposed nature makes the cabinet very inert for that iMac.

MY recommendation is still to go big though? WAF? Why does a sub need to be small and hidden to have WAF? 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/creative-sound-solutions/23297-trio-12-end-table-build-9.html

IMO that for example would blow the WAF of a small sub away. Definitely get in touch with funky waves.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

I have to say the Epik Legend does look like a bargain considering what you get with the opposed drivers dulling any cabinet resonance therefore allowing for better performance but some people just cannot get away with a big black box, I have had many in my room but had a severe ear bashing from my other half, but once it is in there is not much they can do as they are too heavy to move :bigsmile: but a lot of people have to compromise and I still believe the SVS to be the best option if you must go down that route.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Well one thing I would look at is the current stock. Epik is out of the Legend and SVS has limited stock on the SB12. I am sure either of those would be a great addition to your setup. I have only dealt with SVS in the past and I can say that I have yet to find a company that is more dedicated to their customers than SVS. Simply an outstanding company to work with.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Dale Rasco said:


> I have only dealt with SVS in the past and I can say that I have yet to find a company that is more dedicated to their customers than SVS. Simply an outstanding company to work with.


Ditto.


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

SVS is definitely first on my list, has been for years.

As things stand, though, after all this my little upgrade project may just be put on hold for a little while. Apparently I need new tires more than a new sub, at the moment.  So much for extra money...

I still want to do this upgrade, though, so perhaps if I can save up for a time, SVS will have no shortage of SB12s for me to drool over.


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Yeah sure they will, or you may have a little more and move up to the gorgeous SB13+ :bigsmile:


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## Integra8 (Jan 1, 2011)

I have my Paradigm PS1200 decorated with knick knacks (western decor). The Epik Legend is one I'm looking at as well. Maybe the wife would be more open to this idea and then you will both be happy, you getting the sub you want the most and her with being able to decorate it!

Jeff


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## caliberconst. (Dec 10, 2009)

If size really is the issue, you could go check out a B&W asw 608. It measures 10x10x13. Now This guy might not pack the punch that the others do, but you would be amazed at the punch it does pack for its size, it is also incredibly accurate. If I were you I would at least go give the B&W an audition, I was amazed at what it could do for it's size.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/Subwoofers/ASW608.html


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## Fastslappy (Dec 23, 2010)

SVS PC12-NSD yeah it's tall but has a smaller footprint Plus it's fuzzy & warm looking ... I love mine


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Audioholics seemed to really like the Emotiva U12 in their review.... you might just wanna pull the trigger on it at its current price of 429 each. Two or three of those..


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## leej (Jun 9, 2010)

I'd look at the sealed SVS SB12. It's small for a 12" sub and has good reviews.
http://svsound.com/products-sub-box-sb12nsd.cfm


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## Tufelhundin (Jan 25, 2010)

Fastslappy said:


> SVS PC12-NSD yeah it's tall but has a smaller footprint Plus it's fuzzy & warm looking ... I love mine




Even though I have dual PBU's I honestly prefer the cylinders and wish I would have bought dual PCUs. I actually tried to find someone that would swap dual for duals before I transferred over here to Italy....oh well. I actually bought my first PBU out of B stock and could not find anything wrong with it...a year later another rosenut showed up in B stock.:spend: 

The cylinder is lighter, smaller footprint, and you could always lay it on its side or just get a fake plant to put in front of it, if the wife doesn't like the extra water heater.


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## Geoff Gunnell (Jul 20, 2006)

Late to the party, but another small option is the new 8" sub from Outlaw:
http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/m8.html
I would consider these as more 'bass bins' for use in stereo pairs with main speakers for music reproduction ie woofers instead of sub wooofers but at $250 / $450pair they are cost effective for what they are.


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## sfdoddsy (Oct 18, 2007)

Used Sunfire True Subwoofer might work.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Perhaps a used Definitive Technology SuperCube III, a 10.2" cube.

http://beta.definitivetech.com/documents/articles/MythosGem_HT1205.pdf


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## viccmw (Dec 15, 2010)

Another Audioholics review, another one for you to audition and choose from. Wow, but it sure is small with great WAF....

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/velodyne-minivee


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