# Slaughter House Cinemas (Project Thread)



## akakillroy

Since the project is mostly done :joke: (Updated 07-07-2010)

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I have been wanting a HT for about 20 years now. Now I have one!

My area began with and unfinished room about 13x30.

I had a local contractor finish the room all for under $2000 including materials and labor!

Current Equipment:
Panasonic PTAX-200U Projector
ezFrames 120" 16:9 Fixed Frame Cinegray screen
Yamaha RX-V663 AV Receiver
Emotiva LPA-1 7 Channel Amplifier
Behringer Feedback Destroyer DSP-1124P
Elemental Designs A6-6T6 - Tower Pair front left/right
Elemental Designs A6-6T6 - MTM Single Center channel
Emotiva Dipole-1 Surround Speakers
Elemental Designs A3-5TC - Rear Surrounds
2 x Elemental Designs A2-300 Subwoofers
Play Station 3 (For Blu ray)
Used Theater seating (Marquee) from www.seatsandchairs.com x 8
Misc Lighting control from X10 for Ambient Lighting
Logitech Harmony 890 Pro Remote with RF Repeater

The finish on the walls and ceiling are an orange peal texture, the ceiling is flat black, the walls are dark burgundy.

Screen wall is a false wall 2' deep. It includes corner base traps using 2" OC703 superchunks (Cut into triangles filling the corners from floor to ceiling) the wall is then framed and covered with black GOM 701.

The floor is concrete covered with black felt type of carpet.

The walls are 2x4 studs and a single layer of Sheetrock, fiberglass insulated. The ceiling is single layer Sheetrock with R19 insulation.

For the entry door, I settled with a steal insulated entry door.

Inside there is 4 foot storage area that doubles as a AV rack (in wall), this has a 28" luane door. The storage area is insulated as there is a expulsion sump there with a pump, that runs when it rains heavy. Its a submersible pump so it is very quiet already in the area.

I used 14 gauge for all the speakers and a RCA cables for the sub.

I have 6 - 6" recessed lights for the main lighting, and for cleaning. I also have 4 plaster type wall sconces for the ambient lighting that many have used here from Home Depot, they were about $22 each.

The lighting is controlled by 2-3 X10 Light modules / switches that have dimmers. This is connected using the X-10 IR transmitter unit, and a iconRemote for AV control and lighting.

I purchased an IR repeater kit from PI Manufacturing (I purchase many item from this place and have never been disappointed): pimfg dot com, item number TTA-1148. This allows me to IR connect all the devices. Although for some reason the X-10 IR unit will not work with this so I have to place it up front concealing it somewhere.

I want to thank everyone here at the shack for all their help and support!

+Peace be with you+
Carl Slaughter


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## Mike P.

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Welcome Carl! Looking forward to seeing your pics.


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## Prof.

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Welcome aboard Carl..

It all sounds very good..
Keep us up to date and looking forward to seeing some pics also..


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I will have to make a few more posts before I can post links but the photos are available in my profile, in my gallery site. They are currently only before shots.


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Welcome Carl

Looking forward to seeing the plans. We'll be happy to help however we can in working through the design to get you the best space for the budget you have to work with.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

While I am waiting to get my contracted started, I need to know where to place my boxes for the speaker placement. With a 120" screen that is 104" wide, and 54" tall. The ceiling in there will be about 6'8" with an 8" soffit to cover the pvc drain. 8-10" across the width (13') and about 10" out from the wall. Will make a nice overhand above the screen.

I may place some recessed lights there to accent the screen when it is not being used. So with that said, that will give me only about 20" from the floor I would like to make a small stage but that will bring the bottom of the screen down to 14" from the floor. I will make a 2x4 stage.

I plan on 6" recessed lights in the whole room for main lighting, and wall sconces for ambient lighting. So where is the best place to place the recessed lights (distance from the wall, etc) and where to place the sconces, I think I only need four, two on each side. I think I would want them further back from the scree and closer to the seating.

My camera to screen settings look like about 16' and my first row seating is 9' and second row at 12' or a little less.

Speaker placement is the next thing, I have a 104" wide screen, that gives me about 25" on either side, probably closer to 2'. Center channel is going to be either right below the screen at about 15" or right above in the soffet if I can make room there, however it will be further out than it would be below. I am going to do some more measuring tonight and get exact figures to post, and some pictures. Any help on placement would be greatly appreciated.

Next comes the side surround speakers, where to mount/place those. Then the back channel. I will also try to post a diagram of what I had planned on and help there would be appreciated as well. I need to know height as well, but from what I understand the front and center should be as close to ear lever while seated as possible, the surround and back channel can be 5-7 feet?

Thanks for your input

Room dimensions again are 13' wide (Screen width) and 25' deep after the storage room is installed. There is a post in the middle of the room offset about 16" from the right side wall :-( that I can't move. I also have a soffet to cover the heating cooling return ducts that gets about 1/4 of the ceiling toward the rear.


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Attached is a pdf of the room, I have not added in the ceiling obstructions and the general over all celing height is going to about 7'5" shorter around where the projector is going to be. I will complete the drawing a little more and send it again for better perspectives.


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Welcome to the forum :wave: :wave: :wave:



carls64 said:


> ... I need to know where to place my boxes for the speaker placement...


Why you need boxes??? ... are you trying to hide them??? or boxes for the wire connectors???
Did you already purchased the Polk 6750??? ... they're okay to start, but if you can get something with a better frequency response it will be better (speakers go from 135Hz to 24KHz, you need at least 60Hz-20Khz for the front so you don't have to upgrade to soon :yes

I did the same (I got Infinity TSS750 120Hz-20Khz) and in less than a year I started changing speakers ... specailly the front L +R + C :yes:



> ... With a 120" screen that is 104" wide, and 54" tall... My camera to screen settings look like about 16' and my first row seating is 9' and second row at 12' or a little less....


I think that screen will be to big for your viewing distance ... here is a calculator to get the recommended size http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html



> ... I am going to do some more measuring tonight and get exact figures to post, and some pictures...


A sketch of your plan will also be helpful :yes:



> ... but from what I understand the front and center should be as close to ear lever while seated as possible, the surround and back channel can be 5-7 feet? ...


That's correct ... after you post pictures, sketch, etc. you'll get some suggestion to get the best out of your HT :bigsmile:


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> Attached is a pdf of the room, I have not added in the ceiling obstructions and the general over all celing height is going to about 7'5" shorter around where the projector is going to be. I will complete the drawing a little more and send it again for better perspectives.


i hope you don't mind a pasted a link to your photos here ... http://www.itsallbutstraw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=5341


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> Why you need boxes??? ... are you trying to hide them??? or boxes for the wire connectors???


Sorry low voltage boxes for the speaker wire to come out of the wall, or something where the sire comes out so I know where they will go ;-)



salvasol said:


> Did you already purchased the Polk 6750??? ... they're okay to start, but if you can get something with a better frequency response it will be better (speakers go from 135Hz to 24KHz, you need at least 60Hz-20Khz for the front so you don't have to upgrade to soon :yes


Yes I already purchased I got them for $275 so I don;t think that was bad. I have the following other speakers that may be able to be used for front channel:
Pair of Optimus Pro LX5 with Linaeum Tweeters
Pair of Optimus Pro 7 Small bookshelf, not sure if they would be better than the Polk's
I have had the Polk's for about 3 4 weeks now, I got a deal at a local shop and figured they would be good to start with. My budget will not allow for any further equipment purchases right now. 



salvasol said:


> I think that screen will be to big for your viewing distance ... here is a calculator to get the recommended size


Sorry but I quoted wrong distances, I used the distance calculator from Projector Central, and it shows the recommended seating at 11-17' with the projector at 14'8" at 1.64x zoom or 12-19' at 14'3" throw, and a zoom of 1.70x, both for 120" screen (59"x120"



salvasol said:


> A sketch of your plan will also be helpful :yes:


Already attached a couple messages back.

After dinner I will make some more measurements of the ceiling and post a new sketch, and the photos link you so kindly posted for me, thank you!


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> I think that screen will be to big for your viewing distance ... here is a calculator to get the recommended size


Based on that, it looks like about 13.5 feet would be best for 120" screen? If I am reading that right then I should be able to adjust for that. Thanks!


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Please do things in the correct fashion. Determine seating position first for best sound. Then determine the proper screen size based on that position. Moving seats to fit a screen is 100% backward - sorry.

Bryan


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> Please do things in the correct fashion. Determine seating position first for best sound. Then determine the proper screen size based on that position. Moving seats to fit a screen is 100% backward - sorry. Bryan


I think he already did ... he used the 62/38 rule, he meant to write 15.5' as the viewing distance from first row ... Right, Carls64???  :whistling: :liar: :bigsmile:


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

OK. Sorry - must have misread things. The 62% is not hard and fast, it's just a starting point but will usually be in the ballpark. 

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Your right, I did do it backwards I guess. I simply eyeballed up what the max size screen I could fit in that area and have about a 2 foot space below the screen. I have up to 24 foot of space to work with from the screen to the back wall. The calculator says 12-19'. I guess I can place the seating all the way back 1 foot from the back wall and then we have a viewing distance of about 16' & 21' for the 2 rows of seating.


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

24' would put the first row optimal starting position at approx 15' or slightly less. Put the 2nd row as far from the rear wall as you can get it and still have clearance to the front row considering the reclined positions. 

Seated front row eye position should be approx 1/3 of the way up the viewable area of the screen. 

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

My math is never been very good, and my eyes are rolling around in my head with this, so let me see if I can spill this out without it being too complicated.

The 120" screen is probably going to give me grief, and I think the 106" is going to be too small. I have already order the screen (120") but if I am convinced I will send it back and get a 106".

Option A:
The unfinished room dimentions are 13'2" x 29'7 1/2" and 7'7" High. I have a drain pipe that is on the same wall as the screen, I was able to prop it up so the soffit will be about 8" from the ceiling finished and about 11" extened out. Furing up the celining up to the ibeam I will get a 7'5" Height. The screen location on the way will give me a maximum height of 6'11". So with that figure of 89" If I place a (120") 120"x59" screen (not sure if that counts the screen only and the 2" border) on that wall, that then gives me only 13" from the floor, unfinished floor. I want to eventualy if not sooner place a stake made up of 2x4 and 3/4 board, that will be 4" (give or take for the carpet finish). Then I am only 11" from the botom of the screen, but the first row will still be the 13" from the bottom.

Given that I need about 1/3 from the bottom of the screen for viewing, I eyballed up that I will (me personaly) be about 44" eye level. 1/3 of the screen would be about 19.7" and 19.7 - 44 = 24.3" is what I need from the floor well above the 13" I have.

Option B:
With that said, if I come out about 12" (finished) with my wall I can clear the drain and gain back 7.5" this will make my figures come out to 21" which will be closer, but I will loose 1 foot off the length of the room. And the screen will be up close to the ceiling. Then I am not sure if my projector height will be right as the projector should be about 7.6" from the ceiling to the projector (lens) to the top of the screen. and the soffet around the i beam and return/supply duct will reduce my height in that area to at least 10" giving me about 6'7" height there to mount the camera. (No tall people allowed) ;-) The camera distance leaves the area below the i beam and air ducts for placement.

Now with the depth, Finished area of room will be (Option A) 12'9.5" x 24'11.5" (Accounting for the 4' I will be taking for storage at the end of the room. It has a sump pump and need access to it).

Option B will give me about 23' 11.5" I may be able to squeeze an even 24' out, so I don;t know I am very frustrated, and should I know have come here first before ordering but is it going to make a big difference if I go either way?

I am open to opinion and suggestions please.

Carl


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> ... Finished area of room will be (Option A) 12'9.5" x 24'11.5" (Accounting for the 4' I will be taking for storage at the end of the room. It has a sump pump and need access to it).
> 
> Option B will give me about 23' 11.5" I may be able to squeeze an even 24' out, so I don;t know I am very frustrated, and should I know have come here first before ordering but is it going to make a big difference if I go either way?
> 
> I am open to opinion and suggestions please.
> 
> Carl


I think you can make it work ... I'm assuming your "sweet spot" will be in the front row, Right????, in that case the second row won't get the best of the sound (but if you won't seat there, let your guests miss some of the audio :bigsmile ... Bryan is right (he is the expert on accoustics :hide, on my HT the second row is just one feet from back wall, I did some test with REW and the sound changes there, but I'm able to save in my receiver different setups ... so I saved one for the best spot in the front row and another for the back row (even if is not the best option, we have to work with what we have :yes

I said go ahead, make the front row your sweet spot and loose a little in the back row.

Remember to use the calculator for the riser, the screen distance from bottom to floor will help determine the height of the riser ... here is the calculator http://www.theater-calc.com/riser.cgi ...


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Next question is speaker placement. Then I need to place my IR Repeater somewhere up front, its a wall plate I plan on painting the same color as the wall. Would you place this under the screen close to the center channel or to the left or right of the screen. Possibly on either side wall, but I do not know the dispersion that it will accept.


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

My contracted called me today finally, so maybe this project will get rolling soon and I will have some construction photos.


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I usually do the repeater eyes just under the screen so you can do the natural thing and point the remote at the screen and still be pretty close to on-axis.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Is there any rule of thumb other than a calculator like the one on Projector Central for determining where (how far back) to palce the projector? Based on my calculations for 120" screen, the PT-AX200U will need to be at 16'1" from the screen and a 1.51x Zoom on the lens. I would think the closer you can get the projector the brighter the picture would be? Also it says that it should be mounted about 7.6" from the copy of the screen to the center of the lens?


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Where the PJ is doesn't impact brightness. You have X amount of light spread over Y square inches of area. What will change is how much potential distortion there is depending on zoom. You never really want to be all the way at the end of the zoom. 

For most PJ's, if you can stay away from the last 10% of the zoom, you'll be pretty good.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Well spoke to the contractor, and he is going to complete the room for me for $800 + Materials. We are going tomorrow night to get the lumber and hardware. He says 2 days to get the framing done so I should have some new photos Monday night. After framing I will do the electrical, then insulate then the drywall. But I am getting ahead of myself. ;-) 

Contractor is going to frame, insulate, drywall, mud+tape and finish, hang 2 doors and build my AV rack. I will do the electrical and paint. I suppose that is not bad for $800, as my current budget for the whole room is about $1500, so far I am under budget. Not counting hardware, totals cost of project including AV equipment, minus PS3 is around $5000, no furniture, as we are going to use a couple old couches for now until later this year when we may get some better seating and carpet. With the lights out no one will see ;-)


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I'd say that's a steal. Signs of the weak economy I guess.

Bryan


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> I'd say that's a steal. Signs of the weak economy I guess.
> 
> Bryan


Or a good negotiator :bigsmile:


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Well, that too 

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Can someone tell me that since it does not matter how far back I place the projector, based on the projector central calculator for an 120 screen I can be as far back as 24'6" for that size screen. That places the lens just inside the back wall. Wonder if I can place it in the wall or behind it a bit and project the full length of the room? I have an 11" 1/2" soffet to go around and probably have to be careful that peoples heads do not obstruct the view. But the Panasonic 200U has a movable lense to compensate for placement. The room is at 6'7 1/2" where the duck is, that is from about 14' and extends back 5' (Finished). Problem is it says (riser calculator) that I need to be up 15" (at least) for the rear seating. Let see, that may not work unless the dispersion is minimal in the first 10 feet. Not sure if I am better with the camera in front or above the first row seat of behind or above the rear row seating. This is all making me crazy!


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> Or a good negotiator :bigsmile:


A friend of a Nephew ;-)


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Again, don't push all the way to the edge of the zoom. The other option is to do a false wall and bring the screen forward 2'. That MIGHT let you do what you want and stay away from the edge.

Another option is to build a soffit and hide the PJ in there. That'll gain you some room and an easy way to hide wiring.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Ok here is an updated diagram, with measurements. I am starting to get a little concerned about the projector location as if I place it all the way back to the 24' mark (23' if I move the wall back a foot) that the dispersion will intersect with peoples heads! Take a look and give me your recommendations. (North is the side with the entry door (top))

Ht Room Layout Before Construction

Click the image again to get a full size view.


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> Again, don't push all the way to the edge of the zoom. The other option is to do a false wall and bring the screen forward 2'. That MIGHT let you do what you want and stay away from the edge.


We may end up bringing the east wall (screen wall) in around 11-12" to enclose the drain pipe, that will shorten the room by nearly a foot.



bpape said:


> Another option is to build a soffit and hide the PJ in there. That'll gain you some room and an easy way to hide wiring.


I am working with a very limited ceiling clearance, the soffet is killing me brings down the ceiling to 6'7 1/2" then I have to worry about clearing peoples heads! :gah:


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Soffit in the back will be behind the seating area hopefully so headroom isn't an issue.

Bryan


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> Soffit in the back will be behind the seating area hopefully so headroom isn't an issue. Bryan


What about the soffit above the first row??? :huh:


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Why would you want one there? Soffits generally are only around the perimeter of the room. 

Bryan


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> Why would you want one there? Soffits generally are only around the perimeter of the room. Bryan


:duh: You see what happens when you don't explain things??? :hide: :blush:

What I meant to say was, to build a box to install the projector or maybe just hang the projector avobe or just behind the first row, so he doesn't have to worry about people banging their heads on the projector ... :yes:


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## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

lol. Gotcha. I just read it wrong. That's doable I guess. I was just trying to facilitate it going back farther as was mentioned.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> :What I meant to say was, to build a box to install the projector or maybe just hang the projector above or just behind the first row, so he doesn't have to worry about people banging their heads on the projector ... :yes:


That looks like its going to be the best position as I am going to move the drain, as seen in this shot:
As far back as I can get it, that will take up with furring (2x4 on side) about 6" then I can get back 15' to clear the I-Beam and duct work HERE as there is about 15" where I can place the mount. This will put the front row right below the projector. HERE you can see the detail of the location where the projector will be mounted, a front view facing away from the projector the middle of the room is where the floor joist that is in the middle of the photo HERE. I am still debating on bringing the wall forward around the drain or just boxing it in. If I measure so my eye level (36" in my sofa, that I am using currently for the front row) and I measure 1/3 up on the screen that puts the screen about 16" off the floor! With the top of the screen at 75" That puts the top of the screen right beneath the soffet for the drain, and would I suppose make a nice top valance for the screen?

Does anyone know is the measurements on the screen take in account of the frame, or is the 120" for example not include the frame? So if the screen is 59" its actually 61" for a 2" frame, and 111" for the width, if that is what it is then I will be only 14" from the floor and not perfectly 1/3 up on the screen at eye level.

If I knew this was going to be this hard I think I would have thought twice about starting this LOL.

I received my projector Friday! along with the mount and cable si I may hook it up and see what things look like ;-)


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> Does anyone know is the measurements on the screen take in account of the frame, or is the 120" for example not include the frame? So if the screen is 59" its actually 61" for a 2" frame, and 111" for the width, if that is what it is then I will be only 14" from the floor and not perfectly 1/3 up on the screen at eye level.


Looks like the ezFrame Screen has a 3" frame so that changes things yet again, not instead of 59" high the total screen size is 65" so, if I get the drain against the wall and up against the ceiling I have the frame against the top, I have the fur down 2" for the water pipes, that leaves me with a 7'5" ceiling but the soffet around the drain will be only 6" so I am going to just move the pipe against the wall, that will shorten the room by 6" but at the 15' mark I will be in good shape to mount the projector, and be at about 1.65 of 2.0x on my zoom keeping me back 35% away from my zoom? Does that sound right?


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> ... Does anyone know is the measurements on the screen take in account of the frame, or is the 120" for example not include the frame? So if the screen is 59" its actually 61" for a 2" frame, and 111" for the width, if that is what it is then I will be only 14" from the floor and not perfectly 1/3 up on the screen at eye level....


I dont think it uses the frame around the screen ... I'm sure that you have to measure from the point where you'll get the picture :yes: ... we'll wait to see what the experts say :bigsmile:



> ...If I knew this was going to be this hard I think I would have thought twice about starting this LOL.... ;-)


It'll be worth it ... when you start enjoying your new HT you'll forget all this troubles.

Just be prepared because after you finish the room ... you'll keep upgrading/changing everything again :bigsmile: ... this is a non-stop hobby :T


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> Just be prepared because after you finish the room ... you'll keep upgrading/changing everything again :bigsmile: ... this is a non-stop hobby :T


My wife is going to kill me :shh:


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Well the pipe is moved, but I forgot you have to have some room to get the fittings on so I was able to finagle 1/2" less than what I hoped for, the wall will now be 6 1/2" from the concrete wall, so I am only 1/2" off from what I wanted ;-)

I have to get rid of the old electrical boxes on the south wall now so the contractor can start framing on Monday.

I hope to set up the projector tonight and see where I stand in regard to a mount point. And just to see how it it works ;-)


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I took some more photos last night of the room and equipment, HERE (page 4) is where O moved the drain pipe, so I am bout 3/4" from the wall now so the contractor can build the wall in front of it about 6 1/2" finished out. This will allow me to be withing the sweat spot for the projector at about 15'6" and to clear the I-Beam and duct work (in between).

I also took some photos of the "gear" and the Panasonic 200U Projector. HERE Also I was able to take a few shots of the images produced by the 200U, I placed a all white Studio backdrop made of some sort of flat opaque material, not ideal for projector screen use, with that said I think the picture looked great! Then I realized I was watching 480p resolution! Then I turned it to 1080i output (From a DishTV HD Receiver) and I was blown away! I have a Samsung 1080p 50,000:1 52" TV in the living room, and I have to say Even on this imperfect screen I had made I was very impressed, no pixilation, crystal clear even at about 3 foot away! I can't wait to get the screen and see what it looks like then.

I think everything is read for the contractor to come in Monday and start framing. I will have some more photos tomorrow!


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## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Congratulations ... :clap:

Those pictures look nice ... by the way: What size was the picture??? ... same size that you're planning on using??? ... I think that you can play with your equipment to find the best size :yes:


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> Congratulations ... :clap:
> 
> Those pictures look nice ... by the way: What size was the picture??? ... same size that you're planning on using??? ... I think that you can play with your equipment to find the best size :yes:


140" bigger than my screen :bigsmile: so I didn't watch it long so I didn't get spoiled :sad:

I think I am going to be alright with my projector position based on what I saw, As I have a good amount of zoom (both directions) from that position. I am somewhat Limited with my seating option using couches but it is all I have right now :sad2:

I will keep the pictures coming!


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## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> Did you already purchased the Polk 6750??? ... they're okay to start, but if you can get something with a better frequency response it will be better (speakers go from 135Hz to 24KHz, you need at least 60Hz-20Khz for the front so you don't have to upgrade to soon :yes
> 
> I did the same (I got Infinity TSS750 120Hz-20Khz) and in less than a year I started changing speakers ... specially the front L +R + C :yes:


I am not sure they will let me return the Polk's because it has been about 3+ weeks but maybe, what do you recommend. or anyone recommend that I can get in the $500 price range or less. I paid only $275 for the Polk system. But I knew to begin with that those would only be temporary. I found a set of F+C DCM speakers at a resale shop, but was not for sure if they would be any better? They are the DCM-16S and DCM16C (Center Chanel) and a DCM TB1 I can get the whole set (look like new) for about $200 or less. I listen to them all and they all seem to be in good shape.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> I am not sure they will let me return the Polk's because it has been about 3+ weeks but maybe, what do you recommend. or anyone recommend that I can get in the $500 price range or less. I paid only $275 for the Polk system. But I knew to begin with that those would only be temporary. I found a set of F+C DCM speakers at a resale shop, but was not for sure if they would be any better? They are the DCM-16S and DCM16C (Center Chanel) and a DCM TB1 I can get the whole set (look like new) for about $200 or less. I listen to them all and they all seem to be in good shape.


Most companies have a 30 day return policy, try that ... or you can sell it online or to somebody interested in them and maybe profit a little :bigsmile:

I saw the DCM specifications ... compared to Polk, they're better (55Hz to 20KHz), subwoofer is the weakest link (42Hz-160Hz); but you can start with that and later upgrade to a better sub (SVS, HSU :drool ... specially with a killer price like that :yes:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I swung by there on my lunch hour and looked at them and the 16S's were in perfect shape same for the 16C Center channel. The sub looked like it had been used but they guaranteed it worked fine the sub surround is rubber and it was perfect. I got them both (2x16S, 1x16C, TB1) for $200. I have purchased stuff from this place before and never have been unsatisfied. Internet price for the Speakers are $120 for the 16S's and $90 for the 16C and $150 for the TB1 so looks like I got a decent deal for $200 I should be able to get $150 out of them when I am ready to upgrade. ;-) I will use these for my Front and Center / Sub (maybe I could use both the Polk Powered Sub and the TB1 ;-)) and the Polk's for the Surround and rears! I was going to need two more speakers for to complete the 7.1 anyhow ;-)


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Congratulations!!!! :T

Yes you can start with that set up and upgrade little by little :yes:

Wait a minute ... How will you be able to upgrade??? ... What about this???



Carls64 said:


> My wife is going to kill me :shh: ...


 :bigsmile:

There's a lot of member using at least two subs in their HT ... including me :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

She has to catch me first!

I have to say she is being very supportive in this venture.

The contractor has been at the house all day today, I went home for lunch and he had over 1/2 of the framing done, he ran out of 2x4's and had to go get more. I am hoping he will have it almost completely framed when I get home tonight so I can start running wires.

I will have some more pictures posted later tonight of the progress.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Well I didn't get as far as a would have liked doing the wiring so I am going to take a half day off from work to get it done before the contractor wants to insulate.

I spent about an hour figing out the location of the speakers. I used 15' as the sweet spot and use the Dolby True HD guide and placed the surround (side) speakers at 90/110 deg from the front rown, this places them between t he first and second row.

The rear channel is at 60 from center (30 to the left, 30 to the right, its fine on the south side but the north side there is no wall so I will need to mount on the ceiling.

Front channel should be 45 degrees from center and they match up almost perfectly in the corners of the east wall (screen obviously), center channel will be beneigh the screen along with the IR Repeater, go to be sure I do not obscure the IR Repeater with the speaker :-O

Sub(s) will go in the corners on the floor/stage when built.

Next is the wall sconces, I am having a **** of a time figuring out where to place those. I tried eye evel but that seems a little low, so I will go just above (my) eye level, but the position in the room I am not sure, I was going to go 8 foot apart, but I was not sure how far away from the screen I needed / should be. Any thoughts. If I come back 8 foot from the wall, you will be able to see them out of the corner of you eye and I am not sure I like that. Also I do not want them too close to the side channel speakers. Any help would be appreciated.

No time currently to post photos, but I am taking pictures throughout the whole process.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I think you need to ask yourself ... What is the purpose of the sconces??? :scratch:

Aesthetic, light the room, add ambience (you'll use a dimmer to lower the light but won't turn off completely), etc. ... based on that you'll find the correct spot.

When I build my HT room, I installed track lights, those are turned on just for entering the room ... when movie is on light go out (lights are in the side wall near the back of the room); I also installed rope lights to the riser to leave it on during movies so people don't fall ... I have never used them (rope light), TV gives enough light to walk in/out of the room during movies) :yes:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Its mostly to ad ambient room light and for looks mostly. They will be on dimmers.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> Its mostly to ad ambient room light and for looks mostly. They will be on dimmers.


I'm trying to access your pictures ... I can't :wits-end:



> ... Next is the wall sconces, ... I will go just above (my) eye level, but the position in the room I am not sure, I was going to go 8 foot apart, but I was not sure how far away from the screen I needed / should be... Also I do not want them too close to the side channel speakers.


Is there any way you can connect the sconce and try different places before permanently installing them??? ... so you'll know how they will look and how well they will light the room???

How many do you plan to install??? ... maybe one on each side wall be enough :huh:


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Be very careful with sconces anywhere in the front half of the room. If you put them there, make **** sure you can turn them completely off while leaving other ones on so you don't wash out the screen. It doesn't take a lot of light up front to ruin a picture.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> I'm trying to access your pictures ... I can't :wits-end:


Its working again, I restarted that server and forgot to enable the web server :blink:

Well I pulled an all nighter to complete the wiring, I think I have the wall sconces in a good place and to answer one question they are on their own circuit and will be dimmable and on/off.

I have a 50' RCA Cable running to both the left and right sides of the screen area (in case I want to use two subs), FR, Center, FL, I believe I have my surrounds in the correct location, as well as my rear channels. The Front left and right are 45 deg with the "sweet spot" of 15' from the screen, the rears are 60 deg, and the sides are about 110, aligned with the center between the 1st and second row.

More to come and photos.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Forgot to say (I am tired with only having 2 hours sleep, and have to work a whole day) the contractor is insulating this morning, and we go get drywall tonight and he starts dry walling tomorrow. He feels that he can get the drywall in tomorrow and start taping and muding on Friday. He wants to work Saturday and Sunday and he feels that by Monday evening I should be able to start paining! 
I think this will be a record for getting a Home Theater done in the shortest time frame? Start to finish (room) in 1 Week?


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> I think this will be a record for getting a Home Theater done in the shortest time frame? Start to finish (room) in 1 Week?


Then comes the fun part ... set up, play movie ... set up again, play movies ... then tweek again, play movies ... upgrade something ... set up, play movies ... and keep going and going :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

The insulation is in, he started at 8:30am and was done at 12:30pm We are going tonight to get the dry wall. I am SO tired.


----------



## titch--

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

You can sleep next month.


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

It'll all be worth it soon enough. Hang in there. :daydream:

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



titch-- said:


> You can sleep next month.


Just don't do it during movies :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Ok now that the wiring is done there is not much more for me to do other than wait for the contractor to lay the dry wall and finish it. He starts tomorrow on the Drywall at 8am.

Here are the photos from Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday.

Monday - Begin Framing
Tuesday - Finish framing and begin wiring
Wednesday - Completed wiring and insulation

More to come tomorrow!


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Well the dry wall in mostly complete, he should start taping and muddling later this afternoon. I asked him hypothetically how much he would charge to pain the room, and he will now be painting the room for me, as I can't touch it for $125, I have to buy the paint obviously ;-)

I told my wife I was going to paint the ceiling black, and she said why not pain the whole room black ;-) Not sure I will like that but who knows it would save me from having to decide on a color LOL

Now I am deciding if I want to paint the walls a dark blue or dark red (black cherry). I am going to be putting in some new carpet as well. Currently it has a charcoal gray felt carpet, that was good for Min-Z RC cars ;-) and I had planned on just using that for now, but after the framing was done it was obvious that the carpet we going to be a pain to clean up, I should have taken it up before he started ;-)

We picked up the doors last night as well, I have a 32" steel entry door that has full insulation and full weatherstripping. I had budgeted $120 for a door, and I found this one for $88 at Home Depot, however it has holes for both a door knob and deadbolt, I wanted only a single home. So I bought a cheep deadbolt/door know set for it. We are installing it so the door opens outward from the room and thus is inset.

I am still not sure what to do about a stage and a rear seating riser. I don;t really have the funds right now not the seating so for now I suppose I will just wait for those. I do not have any real idea on what I want up front yet so I can add those later. As I have been told this is a never ending project so I guess I will just take my time once the main part is complete and I have a functioning HT.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> I told my wife I was going to paint the ceiling black, and she said why not pain the whole room black ;-) Not sure I will like that but who knows it would save me from having to decide on a color LOL


You're lucky ... most of the time they don't want to even hear "dark color" :bigsmile:

I suggest you to take her and choose a color; or you can sit down and scroll through the forum for pictures and show her; it doesn't have to be black ... just a dark color to avoid the light reflection :yes:

I've seen blue, gray, green and of course my color burgandy :bigsmile:

Will you be using fiberglass to cover the whole front wall??? ... if you are, you don't need to paint it, just use speaker cloth or any transparent fabric to cover the fiberglass and you'll be fine. :yes:



> I am still not sure what to do about a stage and a rear seating riser. I don;t really have the funds right now not the seating so for now I suppose I will just wait for those. I do not have any real idea on what I want up front yet so I can add those later. As I have been told this is a never ending project so I guess I will just take my time once the main part is complete and I have a functioning HT.


If you have plans for a riser, maybe is a good idea to don't carpet the whole room (to me it will be a waste of money), it will look odd ... but Why you want to install carpet and then cut it and throw it away??? ... maybe is better to get some 2"x4"'s instead and start building the raiser little by little :dontknow:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Its been a couple days now and the drywall is prepped for painting, the contractor comes back this evening to put in the doors and spray the primer. The finished texture on the walls "orange peal" looks great and thus it required little to no sanding in most areas (he is a good mudder ;-)).

I have been running the dehumidifier in the room constantly so the area is kept very dry during this period so things dry evenly and quickly.

I have decided on my colors, please comment or recommend any thing that should be changed?

The ceiling and screen wall will be flat black. The side walls and rear of the room will be a dark Burgundy I think its called ruby quartz. It looks black when the lights are turned down low. It is flat as well.

For now I am going to pick up a piece of black "felt" carpet with no backing (it is similar to what had been down there at the start of the project, but in black) It has little to no reflectivity. I will have about 37'x12' of it so I could cover the entire floor with it but I am going to stop short of the back at 24' that should bring it from the screen wall to the equipment rack wall and leave me with severla feet left over. I am going to use carpet tape to tape the edges so I can pull it up later to build the stage and riser later on.

So in short, black ceiling, screen wall, and floor. dark Burgundy walls. I hope it looks nice ;-) more photos to follow soon.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> So in short, black ceiling, screen wall, and floor. dark Burgundy walls. I hope it looks nice ;-) more photos to follow soon.


I'm sure it will look good ... :yes:

Are you planning to kill the front wall with fiberglass??? ... that will help with accoustics too, and instead of painting the wall; you can use speaker fabric or any transparent fabric (black) :huh:

Edit: I know is not the same as using fiberglass, but I'm sure it helps (I did it on my HT) ... you can use ceiling accoustic tiles (http://www.armstrong.com/resclgam/na/ceilings/en/us/prod_detail.asp?itemId=45147.0 ) just paint them black ...


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> Are you planning to kill the front wall with fiberglass??? ... that will help with acoustics too, and instead of painting the wall; you can use speaker fabric or any transparent fabric (black) :huh


Reading back through the posts I think you asked that before but I was rude and never answered :duh:, sorry.

All the walls are pinked and t hen dry wall is that what you mean?

I am sure I will need some acoustical treatments throughout, and maybe a base tube?

I am planning a stage (small/short) and a riser in the future. Also have been toying with the idea of making pillars on either side of the screen and bottom to hid the speakers and subs.


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Generally, in a multi-channel environment, the front wall is absorbtive for a couple of different reasons:

- Deal with bass response anomolies if the speakers are relatively close and avoid issues with SBIR

- Absorb reflections from the surround speakers so they don't reflect and mix with the front soundstage and blur the imaging.

You're also going to want a reasonable amount of broadband bass control as well as some way to deal with the side wall reflections. 

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> Generally, in a multi-channel environment, the front wall is absorbtive for a couple of different reasons


Based on what I have what would you recommend keeping in mind I have little to no budget left :sad2:


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Find a supply house that carries 4.5lb mineral wool. That's probably the cheapest (though not the easiest to work with) material to use.

Make some triangular chunk style absorbers for the front corners and finish off the rest of the wall with some 2" covered in cloth. You can DIY this pretty reasonably.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Where is Mineral/Rock wool usually sold? Home Depot or Lowes do not seem to carry it.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> ... Home Depot or Lowes do not seem to carry it.


You're right!!! :T ... maybe Bryan can help you here, I'm sure he can sell you what you need :yes:


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Try either your local insulation supply house or potentially a metal building supplier.

Where is Fontana?

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> Where is Fontana?
> 
> Bryan


We're about 60 miles east of Los Angeles in San Bernardino County.

We have the famous California Speedway (I don't know if you like races, but at least twice a year they have NASCAR, Indy 500 or some of those popular races ... I'm not into that, so I can't tell :bigsmile


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Well, closest KNOWN to you is

SPI
5301 Industrial Way
Fleetside Commerce Center
Benicia, California 94510-1026
707-745-4922
707-745-4987 FAX
800-359-3555

That'd likely be cheaper than shipping from anywhere else if you have to order it. I know they have what you're looking for though. Should be able to get 4 and 8lb. Should also be able to get 2" and 4" thickness in the mineral wool. I'm sure they run trucks to LA all the time.

I'm sure there are other places in the LA area that have it too - just a matter of finding them and what they'll charge you.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Uhmm, I am in Bethalto, IL about 20 miles north east of St Louis MO. :huh:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

More pictures!

Didn't realize I was that far behind! I have been busy! This has not taken very long considering most of the work has been done by one guy working about 5 hours a day.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> ... I'm sure there are other places in the LA area that have it too - just a matter of finding them and what they'll charge you.
> 
> Bryan


Bryan ... Carls64 lives in Bethalto, IL :bigsmile:


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Doh! :duh:

Sorry about that. Looked at the wrong thing. Try:

Brauer Supply Co.
4260 Forest Park Ave
Saint Louis, MO 63108
(314) 534-7150

Ask for Liz in insulation. Tell her I sent you. She'll know what you're looking for.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Looks like I can get it from them! It comes in the 4" 3 sheets 24x48 and 2" 6 sheets 24x48.

Now you think a 1' square cut diagonal will be a big enough triangle/wedge to put in the front corners? I can make two columns to the ceiling with 3 sheets with a 1'x2' piece left ;-)

The 2" section I can use to make wall treatments? What kind of inexpensive cloth to cover, burlap maybe?

I do not have any type of analyzer program, but I do have the calibration tool/mic that comes with my new Yamaha receiver.

I own a MacBook Pro laptop if there is anything I can use with that.

Thanks so much for your help?


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

You can do the corners at 12x12x17" if you need to. Normally, we use 17x17x24" or 24x24x34" triangles The bigger they are, the more surface area and also the deeper into the bass they'll reach effectively. 99% of the people use the 17x17x24". You'll get 8 triangles of that size out of a 2'x4' sheet - or - 32" of vertical height per piece - 96" per 3 pc bundle.

2" will be fine for wall and reflection point duties. Burlap will work. If you want something a little less coarse, you can also use Muslin. Cheap at JoAnn Fabrics. You can also dye it with RIT dye to whatever color you want.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> You'll get 8 triangles of that size out of a 2'x4' sheet - or - 32" of vertical height per piece - 96" per 3 pc bundle.


Do you need to go all the way up to the ceiling with them?

I think I will build a frame outset from the wall to conceal the subs and left and right channel speakers and cover that with fabric?


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Preferably yes.

As for the covering, that's your call - just an aesthetic thing. If you do, keep the frame as minimal as possible and you'll have to use something like Guilford of Maine FR701-2100 fabric that's acoustically transparent if you're putting speakers behind it.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I went home at lunch today and the painting is done and WOW its dark in there :jump:

Now I have to start connecting the electrical and installing the screen and projector and audio video equipment.

I will post more picture tonight.


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> ... you'll have to use something like Guilford of Maine FR701-2100 fabric that's acoustically transparent if you're putting speakers behind it.
> 
> Bryan


What about speaker cloth??? ... Do you think is a good idea for him to remove the speaker grills??? :huh:


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Grille cloth is in theory, designed to be transparent - or - the speakers SHOULD be designed to work with the grilles on. That said, many aren't and the grille frames can cause diffraction issues. I personally always remove my grilles when I listen.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Well the painting is done, or at least I thought it was until I looked more closely at the job, looks like it is going to need another coat ****!

But over all it looks good I think. Boy its dark in there with the lights down load the walls are or look black for sure!

I spent the evening putting in the recepticals, light switches and door knobs, HVAC vents.

Tomorrow I am going to clean up and maybe go get the carpet that will help for sure. If the walls don;t look any better tomorrow morning the contractor told me to call him and he will come back out and roll the walls again to cover up the light spots. I have to get another can of paint though.

Here are the photos from today: 

http://www.itsallbutstraw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=6297


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> Well the painting is done, or at least I thought it was until I looked more closely at the job, looks like it is going to need another coat ****! ...


Most of the time you need at least two coats ... specially with new walls or from light to dark colors :yes:



> ...I spent the evening putting in the recepticals, light switches and door knobs, HVAC vents.


Don't forget to paint them too ... :bigsmile:



> Here are the photos from today:


Everything looks nice :T


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Carpet is in, its BLACK :R but its going to be fun keeping it clean! Now I need some baseboards I suppose, it looks funny without them :no:

Progress so far has been mounting the projector, finishing the electrical outlets, doing something with the light switches, the box is recessed a little to far so I have to shim the mounts for the 3 switches so they look and work better.

I installed and cut my shelf's for the equipment rack (Thanks YW84U, I used your idea from HERE)

Found some $7 plug in LED lights to serve as walkway lighting until I build my Riser for the second row seating.

I hope to clean up the carpet a bit and set up the screen and get the surround speakers on the walls. I am using the THX guide so the rears will be 60 deg, and fronts will be 45 deg from center of the first row.

More pictures to come.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

OH, also found some wall sconces, they are the white ceramic paintable ones from Home depot. I am debating on if I should paint them, if so what color. I mounted one just to see what it looked like before I painted them, they add a little contrast to the dark walls. The ones close to the front my become a distractions if I do not paint them. Not sure if I should paint them the same color as the wall or paint them black. Suggestions?


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> ... Not sure if I should paint them the same color as the wall or paint them black. Suggestions?


Either color will be fine (I'm sure your seats will be black, Right???) ... if you don't want to paint them same color as the wall, try a little lighter (one or two shades) ... I'm sure they will look :yay: ... you can also paint the baseboard the same color as the sconces too :yes:


----------



## smile711

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

I share your enthusiasm and need to stay within a budget. 11 years ago we purchased a home and remodeled it, including extending an existing "family room/den" that was 15' x 20' w/ 8' ceilings. I knew a sound room designer (stages/studios) who was kind enough to make some suggestions:

1. Enlarge my room to help eliminate the risk of standing wave interference. I'd heard of it, and have forgotten most of the science behind it, but look it up, and make sure, at least, that you are AWARE if your HT room dimensions pose a problem in this area. As I recall, it pertains primarily to the lower frequency subwoofer sound; I vaguely remember him mentioning that I needed to be careful that the long vs. short walls not have a common denominator---e.g., 10' x 20', or 13' x 26', etc. But again, I'm not a sound engineer. I do know his advise ultimately saved me from making a huge mistake down the road, because my original measurements were headed down that road. 


2. Don't cut corners on the rheostats/controllers used to dim your HT lighting. We ended up installing wall sconces on the side walls, using an electronic dimmer my wiring/installer said is good, and we're happy. I had 2 dimmers in another installation that caused TERRIBLE RF interference on the AM radio band in my house (we like listening to local news, weather, etc.), and also messed up the operation of one of my remotes, as I recall. That was back in 1994, and I didn't want to have those problems again. There are several good companies out there---just watch out for those kind of RF minefields.

I am primarily a music lover, and the accuracy and placement of instruments (I'm a vocalist) are important---and of course, good Surround Sound is too! IF you can save up a bit more and purchase an A/V receiver with a "calibration/equalization" feature, it might help out. Especially if you have some issues with reflective or absorptive surfaces playing with your sound. I found that this room calibration got us "close" to what I liked hearing (my ultimate instrument), with just a little tweaking here and there. My previous A/V rec'r did NOT have this room calibration feature, and I spent HOURS trying to balance out things like drapes on one side, hard walls on the other, etc., etc. Sounds like you are thinking ahead in this area, and that is really smart. Like I said, read up on some of the receivers with this calibration feature. Some on this forum will no doubt take issue with these "auto calibration" systems, but for my HT, a significant improvement in dialog from the center channel was one of the benefits. 

I couldn't help but notice a lot of time spent in discussing size of screen, position of seating (I totally agree with the Sound Designer, btw), and so on. Here is some advice my wife gave me going into OUR project. We spent a total of $12, and the investment really paid off. What was here secret suggestion?

She's a seamstress, so we went to a store and bought a California King sheet, (white), and a 2" diam. dowel used for closet hangers that was about 8' long, and an shorter 3/4"-1" diam. dowel. We tacked our sheet onto the large dowel, placed the smaller dowel into a "pocket" she sewed at the bottom (slipped the dowel in from the end---keeps the sheet nice and tight), and Voila! We had an inexpensive "trial" screen" we ended up using for several months. It was still in place for Superbowl, and not ONE buddy (or gal) complained about our "el cheapo" screen! Meanwhile, we made several adjustments in the size by rolling it up, raising it higher up the wall, and so on. Finally, we bought a wonderful DaLite screen that we are still using, and really like. Try it---it might relieve some of your "builder's stress." Been there, done that... And it also helped defer the cost of the "real" screen so we could save up for that. Yes, we had some cost over-runs.

I wish you well on this project! 

PS: I really like your choice of projectors. One of the great all around projector values, too.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Thanks for all the input! But I already have the screen. I finished assembling it last night and it up. I set up all the speakers and wall plates for the wires. I also started assembling the media rack (DIY) and hope to get the projector mounted and start adjusting video and sound. My goal was to watch a movie or two by the weekend but got tied up doing other things and didn't get everything I wanted completed. So its back at it tonight!

I also need to make a couple stands for the front and center speakers, I found a nive tutorial on building them inexpensively with 3" PVC sand and some threaded rods ;-) Oh BOY another project.

I believe we are going to end up buying some HT seating instead of using just the old couch down there, but at this time we can't justify spending $1500 for 3 seats so we are still looking and may end up buing on the cheap and getting something better later on. If we get something else I am going to have to get to work on the riser so we can seat more than 3-4 people.

Still have to post the rest of the photos I have taken, will try to do that tonight.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

We also have descided to call it the "Slaughter House Cinemas" :R


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

If you're going to use PVC, I'd strongly recommend filling them either with sand or lead shot. Otherwise, they'll resonate like crazy and not provide a strong, rigid bass for the speakers.

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> If you're going to use PVC, I'd strongly recommend filling them either with sand or lead shot. Otherwise, they'll resonate like crazy and not provide a strong, rigid bass for the speakers.
> 
> Bryan


I think you missed something ... :whistling:



> ... I also need to make a couple stands for the front and center speakers, I found a nive tutorial on building them inexpensively *with 3" PVC sand and some threaded rods *;-) ...


----------



## bpape

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Man - I gotta slow down. Been so busy that I'm reading too quickly.

My apologies. :doh:

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> Man - I gotta slow down. Been so busy that I'm reading too quickly.
> 
> My apologies. :doh:
> 
> Bryan


No apologies need it ... :bigsmile:

Just slow down ... relax ... don't work to hard :yes:

But in the other hand, you need to pay bills, mortgage, bills, upgrade HT, bills ... :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



bpape said:


> If you're going to use PVC, I'd strongly recommend filling them either with sand or lead shot. Otherwise, they'll resonate like crazy and not provide a strong, rigid bass for the speakers.
> 
> Bryan


That is the idea! Thanks!


----------



## smile711

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

One possible way to get some very comfortable seating is to go to Office Depot (Staples, too?). You'll find those "stackable" chairs used in a doctor's waiting room. Mine have chrome legs, black arm rests, and grayish fabric. They stack nicely, and now we use them for overflow for big dinners (they fit up to our folding banquet tables and card tables great. 

Our HT seats were a big project (5 years): I found some wonderful used theater seats, complete with cushions, metal supports, hardware, and of course---chewing gum. I had them shipped from Iowa from a theater they were remodeling. Research shows they were made in 1930-31! I had all the metal cleaned and powder coated, then had all the cushions redone in hypoallergenic materials and gorgeous fabric that was on sale. Altogether, we have 20 seats, and they work nicely with our "retro" look in our HT. They are extremely comfortable, and will last for years and years.

Back to the stackable chairs: They may seem austere for now, but because they have armrests, people can sit in them easily for a 2 hr. film. And the backs and seats are padded, so they really beat the Costco folding chairs (no armrests) all to pieces. If you have no need for them later, donate them to a club or church, etc. For under $40 a piece, they worked well for the 5 years we needed them in our HT. In actuality, our 4 FRONT seats were actually an old couch... the stackable chairs were arranged behind the couch. 

I just Googled, and it looks like those stackable chairs w/ armrests are now closer to $60 with shipping.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Thanks for the information smile711! My contractor had two words for me when I was talking about Home Theater Seating, "Lawn Chairs!" :no:

The office/side chair things is a good idea, but we have a couch for now. I am looking into some refurbished "real" theater seats for the second row, or maybe the first row. They have to be anchored to the floor, but maybe I can carpet a piece of 3/4 plywood or MDF to mount them to so I can move them around.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

Anyone know how to rename the master thread of my post, I would like to change it now to: Slaughter House Cinemas (Project Thread)

:raped:


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> Anyone know how to rename the master thread of my post, I would like to change it now to: Slaughter House Cinemas (Project Thread)
> 
> :raped:


My suggestion ... send a PM to the boss (Sonnie) :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*

More pictures posted:

Wednesday July 30, 2008
Sunday August 3, 2008
Sunday August 4, 2008

I made my speaker stands in about 2 hours! I have to fill them with sand yet and paint them but their construction is complete, I am particularity proud of those. Total cost of construction $27

Here is the link where I got the idea.

Once they are painted they should work out well!


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> Once they are painted they should work out well!


Nice job!!! :T

Question about your front speakers: Is that the final placement (as seen on the picture)??? ... I read that speakers sound better when not in the corner; try placing them near the edge of the screen and see how they sound ... Did you find the best place for the sub??? :huh:


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> Nice job!!! :T


Thank you! Its been a lot of work, and to think I didn't do all the framing/insulation/drywall/painting!



salvasol said:


> Question about your front speakers: Is that the final placement (as seen on the picture)??? ... I read that speakers sound better when not in the corner; try placing them near the edge of the screen and see how they sound ... Did you find the best place for the sub??? :huh:


Well at 15' from the screen, the THX specs say place the speakers at 45 deg, and that puts them right in the corner, however I just set them there I have not begun any serious calibrating. One nice thing is that my Yamaha 663 has self calibration on all 7.1 channels. Same for the sub, just sitting there, I have the speaker cables and sub line level cables coming out the the wall in that general location :-(


----------



## salvasol

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



carls64 said:


> ... I have not begun any serious calibrating. One nice thing is that my Yamaha 663 has self calibration on all 7.1 channels. Same for the sub, just sitting there,


I'm sure you anxious to get to that step ... Right??? :bigsmile:

I see that the thread name was changed ... Did you do it or the Boss did it??? :yes:


----------



## smile711

*!*

Anchoring your chairs to a sturdy base is the route we took with 20 of our restored theater seats. We mounted 2 to each "platform." It took a great deal of experimentation, and I utilized a great friend who's a mechanical engineer. It turns out there is a "rocking vs. tipping" issue you MUST contend with. If the seats are not positioned correctly on the base---i.e., the rearmost support for the seat is too far BACK, the chair can rock BACK when they sit down. It'll tip FORWARD if the seat is mounted too far forward on the base. So that's why you have to make a test jig.

One other matter which requires thought: Most commercial theater chairs have supports whose feet are NOT flat. Rather, they are angled slightly since most theaters are sloped towards the front of the theater. That said, if you just bolt most supports down, the seat will not be "plumb," and safety issues will cause it to tip, no matter how well you've positioned the seat on the base. We devised hardwood shims/wedges that are placed under the chair support's feet. They are cut to the precise angle to which the feet are manufactured. In our case, it was 3.5 degrees. Sounds complicated, but maybe the chairs you'll be buying will be like some soldiers in the Army----flat feet! Then you won't have the above issue. 

My base is what I call "chip board," 3/4" thick. I asked and did research, and settled on that as my base for a couple of reasons: per square foot, it is by far the densest and heaviest material. Also, it drills nicely because it is not a laminated product. It also will not delaminate over time like plywood can. MDF is different of course, and I have some fine a/v equipment shelving done with that. As I recall, it is also VERY dense and heavy, but WOW! It would be extremely costly for the sort of platform (3/4") you're considering.

I used nice gray carpeting on the platforms (used adhesives), and attached some Teflon plastic slides on the bottom to assist with the occasional scooting around to vacuum, etc. I tried 3 chairs to each base, and wow, that's heavy and hard to move! 2 chairs/unit worked for us.

I'm excited for your project, and you're thinking through things well. Like I said, we used an old sofa/couch for a long time in the FRONT row, and the stackable chairs for the remaining seats.

Have fun.


----------



## akakillroy

*Re: New basement HT Posting progress photos*



salvasol said:


> I'm sure you anxious to get to that step ... Right??? :bigsmile:


Oh Ya!



salvasol said:


> I see that the thread name was changed ... Did you do it or the Boss did it??? :yes:


We talked about naming it, as it seems to be the thing to do. I originally wanted this room to be my photo studio but it seemed impractical being that it was on the opposite side of the basement and you had to walk down the steps and through another work room then in to this one. So our last name is Slaughter so it seemed appropriate, if not a bit morbid ;-)


----------



## akakillroy

Thanks again smile711 for your input, I am going to be ordering at least 4 of the theater seating today. I will ask if they are on a slight slant or if they mount flat. That is a good point.

Next I need to consider a riser now that I will have a couch and the theater seating. I wonder if I should place the theater seating in the front row or the rear row, I like the idea of sitting in the theater seating, so they may go up front, and they might be a little lower than sitting in the couch, that would help with the height of my riser.

Speaking of risers, my thoughts are to build using 2x12 pressure treated for the perimeter, and then some 2x6's for the interior bracing, for cost. I am not going to anchor it to the walls, but should I use uboats? And insulate with pink stuff. I need to go CHEAP! I have some carpet left that should cover it, or I may have to take up the carpet where the riser is to use on top of that, and use what I left for the sides. Any help there would be appreciated. Also somewhere I was reading you should cuts slots in the top for using as a bass trap?


----------



## akakillroy

Oh and also can I put the joists at 16" so I can put standard inhalation unfaced in it? Based on my measurements I should be able to build this for under $200 ;-)


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> ... to build using 2x12 pressure treated for the perimeter, and then some 2x6's for the interior bracing, for cost. I am not going to anchor it to the walls, but should I use uboats? And insulate with pink stuff. I need to go CHEAP! I have some carpet left that should cover it, or I may have to take up the carpet where the riser is to use on top of that, and use what I left for the sides. Any help there would be appreciated. Also somewhere I was reading you should cuts slots in the top for using as a bass trap?


Have you compared the savings if you use two 2"x6" instead of one 2"x12"??? ... I remember that I went that route (use two) because it was cheaper, all my riser was build that way (not just the perimeter).

I remember someone who used the black felt paper (roofing paper) under the riser to help with the moisture; I'm sure that's what you mean with the Uboats, Right??? :huh:

Pink insulation will help you with the accoustic ... check for prices too, I remember somebody filled the riser with pillows from Walmart because they were cheaper that using the pink stuff ...

You don't need to brace the riser to walls (I didn't) ... I think is better that way, specially if you'll add a pair of buttkickers in the future :yes:

The holes can be in the front of the riser; and I remember Bryan mentioned something about leaving the back of the riser open ... hopefully he will answer that better than me :bigsmile:


----------



## bpape

You can certainly do 2x6's in a short span like that (assuming front to back span). How the spacing goes will depend on the total weight. 

You can do U-Boats to get it up off the floor and then save the cost of treated lumber if you want. Standard fluffy pink insulation is fine but you need to fill it so it will be R-30. You don't need to jam it in there but it should be full.

You can cut holes in the front to provide a little bass control directly behind the front row if you want - just watch the weight/strength.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

Sounds like a plan! I called about my theater seats and I am getting 8 for the price I was going to pay for 4! Sounds like a deal, these are real theater seats but will need to be bolted to the floor and riser but that don;t seem to be too bad. It will be nice to have all the same seats in there. I am sure the leather stuff would be more comfy but sitting in these for 2 hours or less at a time should be OK, this way I can seat 8 people comfortably and the appearance will be nice, and add to the "theater" appearance ;-)


----------



## akakillroy

Well my theater seats are ordered! I got them from http://www.seatsandchairs.com I spoke with Becky there and she was very helpful. The service was exceptional!

Here are the seats I ordered: (Removed link as it appears I bought most that they had of them)



I ended up getting 2 rows of 4 seats. Based on the dimensions and their figured they will span 92" total so if I wanted I could mount them on a 4x8 surface. They recommend a 1 1/2" base thickness, so I will probably anchor the front row to the floor (concrete) and the other row to the riser, with 2 sheets of 3/4" material.

I am having issues with that riser calculator, it keeps telling me I am going to need a 14" riser, holy cow!

Here is the specs on the seats: http://www.seatsandchairs.com/Install-marquee.pdf

My first row viewing is 15', my room is 24' 2" so I am figuring that my first row is going to be at about 18" forward of the 15" mark to place the viewers head at 15'. Using that measurement and the fact that the screen is at 22" from the floor (I only have about 3" from the ceiling, not sure if I want it right against the ceiling with the 3" border that would give me an extra 3", to have 25" from the floor)

I think (I am going to do a mock up height with seating so I can make sure) I will need about a 10-12" riser if I use 2x8 (7 3/4"?) and 2 sheets 3/4 surface (3/4 + 3/4 = 1.5") I will have a 9 1/4" riser, or if I go with a 2x10's I should end up at about 11 1/4", what do you think?

I am very excited :yay: about my seating, some may say they will not be comfortable, but I go to the movies a lot and I never complain about the seats, do you?

I suppose while I am doing the riser I will go ahead and build my stage and side walls to conceal my speakers and such. :dunno:


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> I am having issues with that riser calculator, it keeps telling me I am going to need a 14" riser, holy cow!
> 
> I think (I am going to do a mock up height with seating so I can make sure) I will need about a 10-12"...
> 
> I am very excited :yay: about my seating, some may say they will not be comfortable, but I go to the movies a lot and I never complain about the seats, do you? ...
> 
> I suppose while I am doing the riser I will go ahead and build my stage and side walls to conceal my speakers and such. :dunno:


Congratulations ... they look nice :T

I use the calculator and I got 9 3/4" (I used 23", 42", 36", 180" and 216") ... remember to measure the start of the screen, don't include the frame :yes:

Is been a long time that I visited a theater ... the only difference between your seats and others is the foot rest, but if you don't need them ... you'll be okay :bigsmile:

If you can wait for your seats before starting the riser will be excellent ... that way you can really measure and see what size you'll need :yes:


----------



## thewire

Those seats look slick. Do they lean back slightly? I always thought that those kind were comfortable. I would always ask that we went to certain theaters just to have them. If not, still a nice looking seat.


----------



## akakillroy

thewire said:


> Those seats look slick. Do they lean back slightly? I always thought that those kind were comfortable. I would always ask that we went to certain theaters just to have them. If not, still a nice looking seat.


The are fixed but you can adjust the angle to a certain degree, you might be referring the the "rocker" style where the seat leans back when you sit in them. They have those as well but they are more expensive. I have been in a few theaters where they had them, but no these do not.


----------



## akakillroy

Ok I believe I have my mind made up I am going to build a stage and columns on either side of the screen to conceal the speakers and sound / bass traps. I do not believe I will be able to create much of a valance above/front of the scree due to the fact it is so close to the ceiling, any thoughts on a design? To accommodate the subs it is going to have to be pretty far out like 2' or more so I may need to angle it slightly out so it does not confine the screen too much. What are your thoughts on the placement of the subs, I will eventually hook two up right now the one is just hooked up. My original thought was to have it up front to the left and right of the screen however space there is not at a premium there:


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> If you can wait for your seats before starting the riser will be excellent ... that way you can really measure and see what size you'll need :yes:


You might be right, I can do some work elsewhere before starting that project :-( Maybe start on the stage area.

I need simple though, I am thinking of framing it up with 1x2 or 2x2's and using drywall as the sides and then cover the front with acoustically visible cloth.

You think a 2x4 height stage is big enough, again space is not at a premium there, it is a big screen though :bigsmile:


----------



## bpape

I'd strongly recommend skipping the drywall on the sides and make both the sides and front just cloth. Otherwise, you'll have all kinds of nasty resonances in there and block a lot of the waves hitting the bass absorbers from other angles rather than straight on.

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> ... I am thinking of framing it up with 1x2 or 2x2's and using drywall as the sides and then cover the front with acoustically visible cloth...


I remember Bryan suggested to another member to do a regular frame and then cover everything else with cloth ... (if I recall correctly is in this thread http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ruction/11615-kjlewie-ht-redesign-thread.html) :yes:

I also stoled this pictures for you (from same thread) ... maybe you can make some changes and use the design :huh:


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> I'd strongly recommend skipping the drywall on the sides and make both the sides and front just cloth. Otherwise, you'll have all kinds of nasty resonances in there and block a lot of the waves hitting the bass absorbers from other angles rather than straight on.


Will do!

I will make them in the corner isolated slightly from the way you think? So they will have fabric on 2 sides.

I had the volume turned up a bit last night on the sound system, listening to the radio and went up stairs and realized I mad a big mistake. The supply and return air vents, are directly above the supply vent to the kitchen, I can here everything perfectly in the kitchen right above the vent :duh:

Any ideas, now that the room is finished that I can reduce that?


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> I remember Bryan suggested to another member to do a regular frame and then cover everything else with cloth ... (if I recall correctly is in this thread http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ruction/11615-kjlewie-ht-redesign-thread.html) :yes:
> 
> I also stoled this pictures for you (from same thread) ... maybe you can make some changes and use the design :huh:


Looks good! however my screen is MUCH lower to the ground, so I would have to change that part. Anyone know of an good place to find reasonably price for fabric would be?


----------



## bpape

No need to isolate them They won't do much. 

As for the HVAC, not gonna happen - sorry. HVAC HAS to be done prior to drywall, takes heavy boxes around flex duct, has multiple 90 degree bends in it, etc. A straight shot like that isn't going to be fixed. Wish there was a better answer - just being realistic.

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Looks good! however my screen is MUCH lower to the ground, so I would have to change that part. Anyone know of an good place to find reasonably price for fabric would be?


I got speaker cloth at Joanns ... $9.99 yd (54" width) :yes:

You can also get GOM (Guiford of main) online or better, get it from Bryan :bigsmile:
Here is a links of the store where I got my accoustic carpet (http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/products/fabrics/guilford.asp)

About the stage ... What about this pictures??? 




















Here is the link to that thread if you want to read more http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-tanner-ridge-cinema-construction-thread.html :bigsmile:


----------



## bpape

Excellent pics of how to build it. VERY nice and open - minimal framing to get in the way, etc.

Bryan


----------



## smile711

Hello.

Nice theater seats, BTW. Re the sub(s), I have only one DEDICATED (separate enclosure) Sub for my HT. My main L/R Towers have 12" subs which have plenty of power each, and then an 18" Velodyne in the Front Right, out from the corner. I had to do a fair amt. of experimentation, which you have eluded too. What will happen is you'll find DD 7.1 (assuming that's the minimum configuration) gives nice SURROUND sound for movies, etc., and some HD satellite programming (rare, unfortunately), and of course with Blu-Ray discs. Thunderous explosions, the cracking sounds of small arms fire in combat films, etc. So your Low Freq stuff for films will probably be great. That said, I mentioned several messages ago that I'm primarily a music person. Boy, oh boy, some of the classical music sounded awful when my HT's Dolby Digital 7.1 was set up. The low freq sounds (cellos, tympani, organ, etc.) had a dramatically "exaggerated" low end. My sound engineering buddy gave my system a look see, and he corrected it with a careful fine tuning using the "calibration" mic, etc. in my A/V receiver. I had NOT done a very good job doing it on my own---once HE did it (took about 1 hr.), the midrange, esp. center channel dialog just POPPED, and the excessive bass in classical music was gone. Films STILL sounded great, so overall, I was astounded at what 60 minutes of intelligent calibration and speaker positioning accomplished—i.e, done by a pro who had lots of experience doing high-end HT in our area. The cost to me was quite affordable, so no complaints there.

Of course, for Musical content, I always select the Music settings on my A/V receiver, and for Films, I select "video" for all of the various "surround effects." One thing I learned nearly 20 years ago is that you can RUIN a good musical recording with poor settings on your surround preamp (going back to the DD 2.1 days), so I've learned to be attentive to that. 

With so many nice folks on this forum (along with your OWN experience and wisdom), you will end up with a great HT, no doubt!

Take care.


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Excellent pics of how to build it. VERY nice and open - minimal framing to get in the way, etc.
> 
> Bryan


Yes! That is the approach I am going to take for sure, Tom has inspierd me in a number of areas for sure, my AV rack was the basis for mine. I am going to start drawing up some ideas, and I will post them.

I am not sure about the angle he has them I would think I could do straight ones (parallel with the screen) as mine will need to be at least 22" to accommodate the subs, maybe 24" just in case I upgrade my sub :yikes:. I currently have my front L&R pointing slightly inward at 45 deg based on the THX requirements so I don;t know how that will work inside the structure, I would not want the sound to be pointing at one of the boards.


----------



## bpape

That's one of the reasons for the angled faces - to accommodate some toe-in without issues.

Also, remember that just because your sub is wider doesn't mean the sides need to be wider. If you play your cards right, there will be no bottom cross member to impair sub location. The small front members won't even be seen by the large waves put out by a sub.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> No need to isolate them They won't do much.
> 
> As for the HVAC, not gonna happen - sorry. HVAC HAS to be done prior to drywall, takes heavy boxes around flex duct, has multiple 90 degree bends in it, etc. A straight shot like that isn't going to be fixed. Wish there was a better answer - just being realistic.
> 
> Bryan


So placing some sort of baffle inside the duct like a divider that would separate the upper outlet (Kitchen) from the lower outlet (HT) would not help? I used Dynamat sound deading material around the outside of the duct to help with vibration of the duct.


----------



## bpape

The baffle will help and mid to high frequencies. The Dynamat will prevent the tin ducting from vibrating and amplifying mid to high frequencies. The bass will still go right through it like it's not even there.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

My grandson and I sat last night and watched the first full length movie on the HT and I have to say WOW! It was a wonderful experience. The sound and picture were excellent!

I used the auto calibration tool built into the Yamaha 663 and with the exception of it running me around in circles saying that speakers were out of phase (Never could get them all to be ok) we sat and watched a movie anyhow. Fantastic 4: Rise of the silver surfer! And even though it was on DVD, you could not tell it by me, the picture was great! I installed the projector last night, and just used the lens shift to position the picture, turn the picture upside down (or would that be right side up if the projector was upside down) and off we went!


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> That's one of the reasons for the angled faces - to accommodate some toe-in without issues.
> 
> Also, remember that just because your sub is wider doesn't mean the sides need to be wider. If you play your cards right, there will be no bottom cross member to impair sub location. The small front members won't even be seen by the large waves put out by a sub.
> 
> Bryan


I have 22 1/4" from the wall to the screen edge, and the current sub is about 18" maybe a little less. So if I went with the outside edge of the frame to be 24" I should have enough room. I would also need to leave enough room to put in the rock wool?


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> The baffle will help and mid to high frequencies. The Dynamat will prevent the tin ducting from vibrating and amplifying mid to high frequencies. The bass will still go right through it like it's not even there.
> 
> Bryan


That will help, because I don;t seem to have much trouble with the low freq its just the mids and highs I seem to be hearing, I had it turned up pretty loud last night or at least loud in the HT, and my wife said she never notices anything unusual and she was in bed sleeping! The HT is right above our bedroom, part of it and the other 3/4 is below the kitchen.


----------



## akakillroy

smile711 said:


> Hello.
> Nice theater seats, BTW. Re the sub(s), I have only one DEDICATED (separate enclosure) Sub for my HT. My main L/R Towers have 12" subs which have plenty of power each, and then an 18" Velodyne in the Front Right, out from the corner. I had to do a fair amt. of experimentation, which you have eluded too. What will happen is you'll find DD 7.1 .....


Is there a forum thread anywhere of your HT, and photos?


----------



## bpape

Sounds like a plan. Give yourself as open a frame as possible and leave the option to move the subs around if at all possible. Corners really isn't a good place for them.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Sounds like a plan. Give yourself as open a frame as possible and leave the option to move the subs around if at all possible. Corners really isn't a good place for them.
> 
> Bryan


What is a good place for them, it seems that most of what I have seen they are in the corners. I do not have many options as the RCA are toward the corners ;-)


----------



## bpape

Longer cables will fix that problem... :bigsmile:

Many people put subs in the corners because they've been told to by manufacturers that count on tons of boundary gain to make their subs sound like bigger subs (but it really doesn't work - just gives more boom and maximally excites all of the room modes - unless you can use 4 of them - 1 in each corner) The idea is to place the subs where they'll provide the flattest response. Start out with it/them between the mains and center channel if they both have to be in the front.

Corner mounting gives the most sheer output - but also usually very very far from the flattest response.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Start out with it/them between the mains and center channel if they both have to be in the front.


Where would the optimum location be for them?


----------



## bpape

Optimum for 2 subs? 1 dead center on the front wall, 1 dead center on the rear wall.

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Where would the optimum location be for them?


You need to do the "crawling method" :bigsmile:

Place the sub in your "sweet spot" and crawl around the room ... when you find the highest SPL is where you have to place the sub ... :yes:

As Bryan said, most of us use the subs in the corner because that's where is suggested ... but some manual tells you that "you need to find the perfect spot", for that you need to try different positions :yes:

I have two subs, one in the front right and the other inside the riser almost in the left corner (about a 1.5' from left wall) ... is not the best placement but that's all I can do right now, I try to compensate with EQ from my AVR (or at least is what I think I'm doing :bigsmile


----------



## thewire

It is best to have the subwoofers in at least one of the room modes. :yes:


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## bpape

If you're going to do the crawl method, look for the SMOOTHEST response across the range where the sub will be performing - not just the loudest. 

Bryan


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## akakillroy

Thank for all the suggestion on the sub placement, I will give that a try and see where I end up, start off in the center, but I am not sure I have enough room to put the DCM sub in the front and I am limited to height, and I don;t want to block my IR repeater (Exact center in my case may not have been the best place). I will have to look at my Polk sub and see if I can't put it in front and the DCM in the rear.


----------



## akakillroy

*Riser*

I tracked my theater seats and they are already in Atlanta, GA coming from Tampa,FL on their way to Bethalto, IL! They should be here Tuesday!

On the riser I have been doing some figuring and I may be able to get away with a 4'x8' riser that would give me floor level walkway all the way around it, is there any reason to have a riser any bigger than the seating are and room to walk to ge to the seats? That would save me on materials. I probably would have to anchor it to the floor (concrete) so if I have 4 people in the back row and they decide to lean back a little the whole thing does flip over with them in it :dizzy: That would be bad.

I originally planned to have the riser go all the way back to the back wall, because I have the opening for the AV equipment offset about 10-12" high to accommodate a rier, the way it is now the PS3 is at eye level, but I have about enough room in the AV "hole" for a couple more shelves.


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> If you're going to do the crawl method, look for the SMOOTHEST response across the range where the sub will be performing - not just the loudest.
> 
> Bryan


What do you use to measure? My ears? :huh:


----------



## akakillroy

I got to thinking maybe I do not need a "stage" so to speak, just enclose the bottom portion of the wall and sides making a shadow box, the lower shadow box would serve as the stage? 

Tom, did a stage and filled the sides where he was going to place the subs, with sand, but my floor is concrete, would I necessarily need a stage to place the subs on? Just build a frame arround the area and cover with cloth, and fill with inhalation.


----------



## thewire

There is no such thing as a HT must have a stage. The purpose is to give the feeling of being at the theater, to add to the experience. It is often not practical because of space limitations or may even cause more harm than good by limiting a subwoofer placement, speaker placements etc. People redo a stage quite often. A stage is usually typical in large venues which will be a plywood structure with insulation inside of it. They are not as limited by space. I saw one at a theater once and it was the same thing only they used multiple layers. A stage filled with sand is going to give the subwoofer a large stable mass to sit on and you are correct this is mostly to add strength to the structure. If you have concrete you will have little to worry about the structure being non secure. You will want to pay extra close attention that things are not causing sound to be transmitted from one area to the next by using a method called "decoupling" where one surface such as your shadow box, does not come into direct contact with the next (wall). Also there are things called RC clips for attaching in such a method. If you place the subwoofers on the concrete floor (I used outdoor carpet) this will allow the lower LF frequencies to travel quite well to your seating area, no stage required. I walked around my room and bumped places with a hammer or broomstick to see if anything would vibrate, then rattle. I used alot of caulk and glue for added strength and I left my walls fairly flexable to absorb energy. It really depends on what resources are available. Sand is not going to make or break a good HT. I have never read where someone had redone a stage because they didn't use sand.


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## akakillroy

Well spent the weekend painting and preparing my baseboards, my wife came in to the room one day and sat on the couch when it was against the south side wall, and was talking then she cried out, "why did you cut that hole in the wall down by the floor!, Oh and it goes all the way across!" After explaining to here about not putting the drywall on the floor, that there needed to be a gap between the bottom of the drywall and the floor, she agreed that we needed baseboard ;-)

I found a deal for wood pine baseboard, 10x12' for $53 at Home Depot, and I had enough "Garnet" color I used on the walls to paint the baseboards. I am going to wait to put them down until I decide what I am going to do about the front wall around the screen, and what I will do with the riser for the 2nd row.

My thoughts are to make an island in the center 4'x8' this should give adequate area to mount the seats to and provided enough leg/walk room for the second row. Has anyone else done this? how do you like it? my original plan was to extend the riser all the way back to the rear wall, but I do not think it is necessary and may make the room look smaller. That end I will still have plenty of head room there, but a tall person may clock their head. It will be bad enough that the 2nd row will extend slightly to the soffet area close to the projector, but if I don't have to go much about 10" for the riser there will still be about 3' before the projector becomes an obstacle for viewing from the second row.

I also hooked up the 2nd sub woofer, that one is a Polk 8" front firing, the DCM is a 10" bottom fire, can I sit the DCM on its side and fire it to the front as well, or does that matter? I have the DCM on the left between the center channel and left front speaker, and the Polk is between the center channel and right speaker, as recommenced. 

We watched a couple more movies over the weekend, Superman Returns and Ai (Artificial Intelligence), and We were blown away by the picture and the sound, couple times my wife said to turn it down, but that was the bass playing into it making it seem VERY loud in spots, but there you go, the difference between listing to a pair of speakers in a TV, and having to turn up the volume at different points in a movie because you can't hear the dialog, and down in others because there is too much LOUD sound. other than turning it down a little bit on the very loud scenes we never had to turn it up, and the dialog was always CLEAR and just the right volume. I am so very impressed with the results, and my grandson can't wait for the next movie night ;-)


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## bpape

You can use your ears or you can use a RadioShack meter. If you run sweeps from 20-80Hz, you'll be able to hear pretty easily whether or not you have big peaks and nulls.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

Forgot to say that the theater seats will be in tomorrow, I am hoping the will be more comfortable that the old couch we have down there now, about 30 min and we are having to shift around as there is absolutely no back support in it, at least the theater chairs will offer some back support that the couch does not. Then I have to decide if I am going to anchor them down the the floor (front row) or mount them on a sheet of plywood. They recommend 2 sheets for a 1 1/2" thickness. I will do that on the riser.

I think my calculations are right correct me if I am wrong. bpape said he came up with 9 3/4 for my riser, but I don;t think I can get there easily, but if I do 2x8's that should be 7 1/2 + 2x3/4 = 9" so say add for the carpet of about 1/8 maybe I can put in a couple shims under the legs to get another 1/2, or place a third sheet of 3/4" that will give me 9 3/4" ?

Or I can do the 2x8 and then fir it up with 1x2" then 2 sheets of plywood?


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## akakillroy

bpape said:


> You can use your ears or you can use a RadioShack meter. If you run sweeps from 20-80Hz, you'll be able to hear pretty easily whether or not you have big peaks and nulls.
> 
> Bryan


Is there some freeware/GPL software I can use on my MacBook that I can use to measure too?


----------



## bpape

You can download Room EQ Wizard from this site. There is a dedicated forum area for the BFD and REW. I believe it'll run on the Mac.

Bryan


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## smile711

Sir,

I am really learning alot from your responses to various questions, so thank you for that.

Question: At one time I had a CD player that would scan the disc, find the "loudest passage," and play if for about 3 seconds (Sony, as I recall). That's hardware, though.

Is there anything out there that will let you play the DVD, and likewise scan for the "loudest" passage, and allow you to set the preamp volume control? At present, my "normal" listening level is set at about -8 to -10 db from what is supposed to be "theater level/original" based on how it was calibrated/room shaped with the microphone and the test tones (forget the exact terminology).

Thanks.


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## bpape

Not that I'm aware of. Sorry.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

Just got confirmation that my seats were deliverd, I knew about it before my wife did, and I was at work LOL

I will shoot some photos tonight and get them posted, after I start assembling them. I will hopefully at lest get the front row set up, and then working deciding what to do about the riser for the back row.


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## akakillroy

bpape said:


> You can use your ears or you can use a RadioShack meter. If you run sweeps from 20-80Hz, you'll be able to hear pretty easily whether or not you have big peaks and nulls.
> 
> Bryan


I picked up the digital one from RS as they did not have the analog version, now what do I do with it ;-)


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## bpape

run the sweeps from 20-80 (slowly) and watch the variation in level. When you find a place that has the least variation, you've found your spot.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

Ok started mounting my seats, however I started thinking, if I mount 4 in a row, I do not have a seat exactly center on the room (my seat!) I bought 8 seats, enough for 2 rows of 4, but I am questioning if I should use all 8 of them.

Should I do 2 rows of 3? Or a row of 3 and a row of 5, this way I have two seats centered on the screen? opinions?

Anyhow more pictures!:

Tuesday, August 5th
Wednesday, August 6th
Friday, August 8th
New (used) Theater seats ! Tuesday, August 12th


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## akakillroy

ok a couple diagrams of what I am thinking here, first one is 2 rows of 4, off center. The second is 2 rows of 4, centered on the 2nd seat moving the 4th seat more toward the wall. Opinions?


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## akakillroy

I think I like this option best, what do you think. This give mes 3 centered front row, and 5 centerd on the back row, and I believe if I measured right 20 1/2" walk way on either side of the 2nd row.


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## salvasol

carls64 said:


> I think I like this option best, what do you think. This give mes 3 centered front row, and 5 centerd on the back row, and I believe if I measured right 20 1/2" walk way on either side of the 2nd row.


Is there any way you can get two more seats to make two rows of five??? ... That will be excellent :yes:

What about using five in the front and three in the back??? ... if I recall correctly you have a post on the left side; if you do as your diagram that post will be an obstruction between rows... and maybe doing the five in the front the seat will be against that post :yes:

Doing the three in the back, you'll have the space to add more chairs (in case of extra guests) :dontknow: ... you can do the same in the front, but HT will look much better with the extra seats hidden in the back row :bigsmile:


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## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> Is there any way you can get two more seats to make two rows of five??? ... That will be excellent :yes:


I think my wife would not be happy to spend more money ;-) I will however have two extra seat bottoms as the sent me the wrong ones by mistake I would have to get two more standards and two more backs addle:


salvasol said:


> What about using five in the front and three in the back??? ... if I recall correctly you have a post on the left side; if you do as your diagram that post will be an obstruction between rows... and maybe doing the five in the front the seat will be against that post :yes:


I will mesure that and see, that might be good raying:


salvasol said:


> Doing the three in the back, you'll have the space to add more chairs (in case of extra guests) :dontknow: ... you can do the same in the front, but HT will look much better with the extra seats hidden in the back row :bigsmile:


I will do some measuring and let you know, Thanks! The pol is about 17" out, so that may put that seat up against the pole :T


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## salvasol

carls64 said:


> I think my wife would not be happy to spend more money ;-) I will however have two extra seat bottoms as the sent me the wrong ones by mistake I would have to get two more standards and two more backs addle: ...


Did you make the complaint??? ... maybe they can give you a good deal for that mistake :yes:



> ... The pol is about 17" out, so that may put that seat up against the pole :T


Let's cross fingers ... I remember you mentioned 20 1/2" before, so this will be close :bigsmile: (and what I like is that you wont have that pole in the middle of the rows :yes; but you'll be the judge of what looks better :T


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## akakillroy

I have about 3 inches to spare next to the pol so 5 in the first row it is, three in the second, I can always add two more ;-) 

Ya they are sending me 2 extra seats and I get the keep these, but I would need two more arms and two more backs ;-) I got a good deal as it was at $99 each shipped ;-)


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## akakillroy

The front row is in, photos tomorrow. 5 seats. Then 3 in the second row. I will probably go ahead and order 2 more for a complete row of 5 there. That will make 10 seats ;-) Seriously doubt that I would ever have that many over at one time, but it offers a place where people can spread out if they want ;-)

Tomorrow (today I suppose) I will go get my lumber to make the riser. I am going with a 2x8 with a 1x2 (3/4") furring strip around the top and with the 2 layers of OSB. I measure right at 9 3/4 although the tape measure says 10" That clears the top of a 6'5" head!

Well off to bed now!


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## akakillroy

Here are the photos from last nights seat install! As you can see 5 of them fit very nicely in the front row, now I am trying to figure out a way to sneak 2 more in the house :shh:


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## akakillroy

I did a mock up of the rear seat riser and based on this it looks like a 2x8 (7 1/2") with a 1x2 (3/4") with 2 layers of OSB is going to make it calculated 9 3/4" but the tape measure says 10" so who am I to argue with the tape measure :dontknow: Here a a couple shots from the seats, the first one is from the front row center, the second is from the 2nd row center as you can see I do do see the top of the front row. I also half way measured the top of my head in the front row, and placed the tape measure in its locked position so I could see where the top of my head (5'7") would be and I can easaly see over that with a couple of inches to spare so I think this height will be good, and I don't see the projector or the ceiling from that position either. I kinda like sitting the back seat :daydream:


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## salvasol

carls64 said:


> ... I kinda like sitting the back seat :daydream:


You'll have a better view :bigsmile:

My sweet spot is in the middle of second row ... but for sound, the best seat is in the middle of front row :wits-end:

What I did is to save a setting on my AVR for each seat ... they both sound good, but the flattest response is in the front seat; but I'm happy in my sweet spot ... :yes:

By the way, dont forget to use roofing paper (black paper) to avoid the moisture ... specially because your HT is in a basement, Right??? :scratchhead:


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## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> By the way, dont forget to use roofing paper (black paper) to avoid the moisture ... specially because your HT is in a basement, Right??? :scratchhead:


You are correct, but I planned on using pressure treated lumber for the 2x8's and also going to place it on top of the carpet. Its a very thin felt (1/8") unbacked. I thought about cutting it out, but I planned for a 3/4" lip all the way around the "island" riser (Not sure why :huh I have no way of getting power to the riser so no lights :doh: and I saw no reason to build the riser all the way back to the wall.

The riser will be 4'x9'6" enough to accommodate a row of 5 seats. I will use 3 to begin with mounted in the center, and if I can negotiate 2 more seats I will add them as well. :innocent:


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## salvasol

I know is your money ... but I'm helping you to save some :bigsmile:



carls64 said:


> ... but I planned on using pressure treated lumber for the 2x8's ...


Isn't the treated lumber more expensive??? ... you can use regular lumber (specially because it won't be in contact with the concrete subfloor) ... or maybe it will be cheap to use pieces of ruber or something if you want to lift it a little (I remember that I read that somebody used pieces of a car water hose) :scratch:



> ... I have no way of getting power to the riser so no lights :doh: and I saw no reason to build the riser all the way back to the wall...


Why??? ... can you extend one of the outlets??? ... or run an extension there???

You have to find a way to get electricity there ... I see in the future a popcorn machine at the back of the room :bigsmile:


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## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> I see in the future a popcorn machine at the back of the room :bigsmile:


addle:addle:

I have already been told NO!


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## salvasol

carls64 said:


> addle:addle:
> 
> I have already been told NO!


Maybe she needs some persuasion ... :yes:

What about some :innocent: . :kiss: . :spend: . :crying: . :sad: . :hail: . :dancebanana: . arty:





EDIT; This will be excellent for you  pop corn  ... if you don't have the membership, I'm sure somebody can help you (I can)


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## thewire

That is looking good.


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## akakillroy

thewire said:


> That is looking good.


Thank you!

Work progressed Friday and part on Saturday for the riser. I have photos of the progress posted:

http://www.itsallbutstraw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=7239

I made a small mistake but I caught it before I closed up the top! I originally placed the insulation paper/lip over the top of the boards where I was going to secure the plywood. BAD idea I wanted to glue everything and the glue would have just stuck the paper to the bottom of the plywood :no:

That was fun pulling out about 100 staples out , it was even worse up by the front seats as I had already anchored the riser down the the floor! :thud:

I have the second layer down I had to have Home Depot cut my plywood down into 2x8 sheets to get it home, so I have a few more seams than I wanted, but they are all glued and screwed so they should be ok. Two layers one going horizontal the other going vertical, all glues down with liquid nails and screed every 6 " or so. This will make the surface a good point to mount the chairs.

I am going to use the router to round the corners off the edges and then try to get the carper down on it and then I can mount the seats. More photos later tonight!


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## akakillroy

The riser is done and I have the standards and backs installed for the back row (3). I should recieve the other 2 seats today so I can complete them. I wrapped the riser in a piece of carpet I had left over from the floor. I just stapled it to the bottom edge and used carpet tape on the top.

Riser Photos

I will eventually put some sort of molding or maybe even use my left over baseboard to cover that and it will look a little better.

I have already tripped over it, so something will have to be done to make it more visible :duh:

Also I fount a nice looking reprint of the original Star Wars movie, that was framed for $40 at Block Buster. They had a nice selection of posters just not all the ones I wanted :sad2: These are painted or somehow covered with something that is no reflective and textured I think the look really nice for the price that is.

Next is the baseboards and then I will be done for a while. Watches "The Bank Job" last night, almost fell asleep through the first half of it thought, It got a little better twords the end.


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## salvasol

Nice!!! :T

After looking at the pictures, I think you have a couple of options for some lights :yes:

1. Use raceways and an extension to the riser ...that way you can install a rope light :yes:

2. Same as 1, but you can connect the extension from the AV rack (through the wall) and cover the cable with a cable organizer.

3. Is that a night lamp on the outlet??? ... you can use a couple to light the path to the riser and seats (I have a couple of those in my HT, and is enough to see the way) :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> 3. Is that a night lamp on the outlet??? ... you can use a couple to light the path to the riser and seats (I have a couple of those in my HT, and is enough to see the way) :bigsmile:


Why yes, yes they are I have two of these night lights.
(Just realized they say, Theater lighting!)


Thinking of buying two more for the other side and I am done ;-)

I may paint them the same color as the wall and you would never know they were "plugged-in"


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Why yes, yes they are
> 
> Thinking of buying two more for the other side and I am done ;-)
> 
> I may paint them the same color as the wall and you would never know they were "plugged-in"


:T

Maybe just some reflective tape on the edge of the riser to be safe ... and watch your step :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

Just an update, I think I am pretty much done for now, more picture to follow once I have the room all cleaned up. I have the base boards installed and the seats all installed. So now I need to do some cleanup and touch up work on the paint. With the lights down low (Wall sconces) and watching a movie, you can't see the speakers up front so at this time I am going to hold off on the enclosure around the screen for now. I am all but tapped out now, and starting to feel a bit under the weather. Now I can start tweaking my sound and enjoying the new theater! So thanks again to everyone for your help and support. I will be here off and on, but probably not the frequency I had during the construction. If anyone wants to contact me feel free to do so, I will monitor my emails and my IM programs. I will upload pictures soon of the finished project.


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## akakillroy

Just one more thing!

If anyone knows a way to make or resurce to put together a "Intro" for your HT let me know, I have Apple equipment and use Final Cut Express, Aperture and iPhoto, iMovie and iDVD.

Probably something stat has sights and sounds and allows me to "brag" on my Theater when company comes to watch movies.

I plan on putting it on my PS3 and depending on the movie, I will "rip" the movie to the PS3 or my Apple Mac Pro's Raid disk and I use MediaLink to stream media from my Mac to the PS3, I can place it there or combine media for a seamless experience ;-)


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## akakillroy

Here are the ending photos of the project. I have a number more things I "want" to do, like the shadow box around the screen to conceal the speakers. Now its time to do some sound tweaking. I am going to download REQ and get out my RS Sound meter and give it a go ;-)

Boy a photo flash sure points out the imperfections in the finish work don't it :-(

Current ending project photos


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## akakillroy

Well it has been a while since I reported in. I am still around. I have recently ordered a pair of eD A2-300 subs, and contemplating a complete speaker replacement as well. Been watching a number of movies, and also purchased a BFD 1124, I have it hooked up and from what I can tell by my REW measurements I have it tweaked pretty good, the while system sound great, but it laks the base I think I should have, hence the purchased of the A2-300's I will have further posts and photos when they arrive in 4-5 weeks :-(


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> ... I have recently ordered a pair of eD A2-300 subs, and contemplating a complete speaker replacement as well. ...


:rubeyes: . :unbelievable:

Upgrading so soon??? ... :bigsmile:

I'm glad you're happy with your project ... like some say: "This is a non-stop hobby" :yes:

Do you have any speakers on mind??? ... remember that you can also get nice used speakers; I've been checking on ebay, Audiogon (high end speakers that sells cheap), craigtlist, etc. if you want to go that route :yes:

Do you want another suggestion (to spend more money)??? ... get an external amp for your front speakers; I got one that I already installed but I need to do the final calibration of the system raying: ... and as far I can tell right now; is making a big difference :yes:


----------



## akakillroy

Yes as a matter of fact, I am considering a complete set of eD speakers, using a pair of towers for the mains. But I may still wait until the subs get here, that will be another $1000 that of course I don't have LOL

I have been watching Craigslist and eBay but so far found nothing I am sure about.


----------



## akakillroy

Oh I forgot I did take some more pictures of my mounted movie posters, that I forgot to post here:

http://www.itsallbutstraw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=8216

Someone was asking about the movie posters that Blockbuster sells, so I took some closeups of those, as well as of the rest of the mounted ones. I didn't get one of the Dark Knight poster I have on the door leading into the room.


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> ... I am considering a complete set of eD speakers, using a pair of towers for the mains. But I may still wait until the subs get here, that will be another $1000 that of course I don't have LOL
> 
> I have been watching Craigslist and eBay but so far found nothing I am sure about.


Besides eD ... Do you have anyting on mind???

You can start will a really nice towers, and upgrade the rest later :yes: ... here is just an  example


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## akakillroy

Found a pair of Infinity RS5's for around $100-150 so far ;-) But the eD seem pretty good for the price, plus they are shipped to my door for free ;-)


----------



## dradius

Great thread. Enjoyed reading through it. I've considered the eD towers myself. If you go that route be sure to let us know what you think about them.


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## akakillroy

I received a note from eD that my Subs are under construction ;-)



> 09/22/2008 Box Under Construction


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## akakillroy

09/30/2008 Awaiting Paint :bigsmile:


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## akakillroy

10/02/2008 In Paintroom


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> 10/02/2008 In Paintroom


What are you doing there??? ... :unbelievable: . :bigsmile: 









(P.S.: Just joking, I know you're talking about your new eD toy building process :yes


----------



## akakillroy

Come on in the air is f....iiiiinnee 

Suffering right now from a broken clavicle. waiting till tomorrow to see what the doctor has in mind for the repair ;-) based on the x-ray looks like surgery to me ;-) It hurts so bad!


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Come on in the air is f....iiiiinnee
> 
> Suffering right now from a broken clavicle. waiting till tomorrow to see what the doctor has in mind for the repair ;-) based on the x-ray looks like surgery to me ;-) It hurts so bad!


Sorry to hear that :blink: ... believe me I feel your pain :yes:

When I was young (many moons ago 1980-1981) same thing happenned to me playing soccer :yes:

I'm form El Salvador (Central America), our hospitals used rudimentary tools to do some repair; what they used was some pantyhose (tights) that they filled with toilet paper :yikes: ... then they used that under my arms and around the neck (forming an eight, that's how they called); after a couple of months I went to the hospital again so they can tight the knott again until my bones fused :unbelievable:

Nowadays, if somebody pass a finger where the clavicle broke ... they can feel that bump, because one piece is on top of the other :yes:

I'm sure that they will use some kind of nail to level the bones if they're broken ... which is a good thing.

Good luck and relax.

Be prepared to sleep uncorfortable for a couple of months, I remember that I can only sleep face up, not on my sides of face down :yes:

I didn't mean to scare you ... okay :hide:


----------



## akakillroy

Oh believe me you aint telling me anything I don't already know LOL. I am in a similar figure 8 brace, but hope the orthopedic Doctor will give me a better answer, the bone is defiantly broken in two and over lapped, looking at the x-ray. I can sleep on my side believe it or not its a tad bit more comfortable than on my back. 4-6 weeks of this is going to have me crazy!


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Oh believe me you aint telling me anything I don't already know LOL. I am in a similar figure 8 brace, but hope the orthopedic Doctor will give me a better answer, the bone is defiantly broken in two and over lapped, looking at the x-ray. I can sleep on my side believe it or not its a tad bit more comfortable than on my back. 4-6 weeks of this is going to have me crazy!


you'll be fine in no time :T

By the way ... How this happenned??? ... working, playing, accident, :dontknow: ... just a little curious :bigsmile:


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## akakillroy

Ready for this, fell out of a golf cart doing 25 mph, landed right shoulder first on the ground.


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Ready for this, fell out of a golf cart doing 25 mph, landed right shoulder first on the ground.


:yikes:

Were you racing in the golf course??? addle: :bigsmile:

I landed on my left ... I was 15yrs old and just started playing semi-professional, the other guy tripped me when I was turning and preparing to run (he was a veteran) :yes:


----------



## Sonnie

I must say Carl... you did a very nice job on the theater. :T


----------



## akakillroy

Thanks Sonnie!

It was the best job I could do with the money I had and the time I had to do it ;-)


----------



## akakillroy

AH I can almost taste my eD A2-300's now


> 10/13/2008 In Final Assembly


 :jump:
Now I just need to decide if I want to purchase some front mains LCR for about $590 more I can get their A6-6T6 Towers and a A6-6T6 MTM Center channel speaker :spend:


----------



## akakillroy

Oh boy :sweat: I pulled the trigger on a complete 5.0 set of speakers, from eD they will be here Friday so this weekend I will have to start all over again calibrating my system ;-)


----------



## akakillroy

My two A2-300 are sitting in my garage waiting for me to get home, lets see 12:17 I have 5 more house before I get home :hissyfit:

My A3-5TC, A6-6T6-MTM, and A6-6T6-Towers should be here Friday! Nice to live only 2 days from eD :devil:


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Nice to live only 2 days from eD :devil:


... and is nice to have money too :whistling:

Congratulations :T


----------



## akakillroy

Well it is loaned money, but I suppose money nevertheless :spend:

They are here, here are the pictures!

I was also notified that my Full range eD speaker arrived, so I hope to get those in and hooked up tonight!


----------



## akakillroy

The new eD Full Range 5.0 system in in, had a friend help me get them down there and set up. I briefly calibrated the LCR set along with the subs, and I have to say I can't believe what I was missing in regard to the fidelity. I watched a couple Demo DVD I have been collecting and I could not believe my ears! The dynamic range of sound I have now is simply superb! It was like going from internal speakers on your TV to a live performance. Now I need to do some calibration with REW and the BFD and see where I am at.

Here are the un-boxing photos and setup. eD does a great job of packaging their speakers, although all the boxes and the speakers say "Made in the Philippians" ;-) The workmanship of the speakers is great!

I have to figure out how to mount the rear/side speakers as they are MUCH bigger than the Polk's that I have up there now, and I doubt that the plastic mounts will hold them at over 7 lbs each ;-)

Not sure what happend to the pictures but the are out of order they are last is first and first is last order ;-)

http://www.itsallbutstraw.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=8376


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> The new eD Full Range 5.0 system in in,...


Congratulations ... they look nice :T

To place the surrounds maybe you can use just screws and plastic anchors (my JBL weights 11lbs, and that's what I'm using); or you can use a small shelf too :yes:

EDIT: I forgot ... Why did you place the sub with port facing to the room??? ... Try it facing to the walls and see how they sound...


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> EDIT: I forgot ... Why did you place the sub with port facing to the room??? ... Try it facing to the walls and see how they sound...


Thanks!

Well that is just the way they seemed to look best ;-) plus they are a pin in the to move with spikes and the little wound spike pads LOL I will maybe try turning them to point to the walls, but I don't want to 
turn them completely around because the other side of the port is the amp and connections 

Also can you show me how you mounted your surrounds?


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Well that is just the way they seemed to look best .... I don't want to turn them completely around because the other side of the port is the amp and connections


I completely forgot about that small detail ..:hide: ... maybe this subs are meant to be used the way you have them (mine have the port in the same side as the amp and connections :yes

Leave it the way you have them now ... please ignore my suggestion :T



> Also can you show me how you mounted your surrounds?


I will take some pictures ... this are the speakers I'm using (Dimensions (H x W x D) 10-1/4" x 14-5/8" x 5" Weight 11 lb (5kg)) 











they have the mounting holes in the back ... so I just used plastic anchors like this  drywall anchors  or  plastic anchor  to hang them on the wall (for drywall ... the first one is better)


----------



## akakillroy

These are considered bookshelf speakers so they have no mounting hols on the back :-(


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> These are considered bookshelf speakers so they have no mounting hols on the back :-(


I just saw the picture on their website (even if they're bookshelf some have holes or includes brackets)...they say that if you want to mount it on a wall use a bracket (similar to what you have, if they can't hold 10lbs look for something bigger) ... or if you don't want to make any holes for the screws (I'm sure you don't :bigsmile just get a pair of small shelf at Lowes or Home Depot (like  this  so they don't show the brackets)

Also, What receiver are you using??? ...I just noticed that the speakers are rated 6 ohms, I'm sure you'll be okay but take a look at the manual to see if there's any caution note when using speakers rated below 8 ohms ... better safe than sorry :yes:


----------



## akakillroy

It's a Yamaha RX-V663 Good thing you said that as it needed to be changed over to 6 ohm Min! Hope the I didn't hurt anything we watched a 2 hr movie like that :mooooh:

I switched it now to 6 ohm so we shall see, the unit did not seem to be hot or anything so we shall see. :thud:


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> I switched it now to 6 ohm so we shall see, the unit did not seem to be hot or anything so we shall see. :thud:


Was there any change in the sound when AVR was in 8 ohms vs 6 ohms??? :dontknow:

I have the RXV 2700, and in a review I found online they suggested to keep the AVR at 8 ohms even if the speakers used were 4-6 ohms (specifically 4 ohms) ... the wattage the AVR outputs was higher (4 ohms speakers; AVR set at 4/6 ohms wattage was 144WPC but when they used the same speakers and set the AVR to 8 ohms the wattage was 272WPC :yes

Try it and see if there's any difference ... just be sure the AVR is not overheating :yes:


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> Was there any change in the sound when AVR was in 8 ohms vs 6 ohms??? :dontknow:
> 
> I have the RXV 2700, and in a review I found online they suggested to keep the AVR at 8 ohms even if the speakers used were 4-6 ohms (specifically 4 ohms) ... the wattage the AVR outputs was higher (4 ohms speakers; AVR set at 4/6 ohms wattage was 144WPC but when they used the same speakers and set the AVR to 8 ohms the wattage was 272WPC :yes
> 
> Try it and see if there's any difference ... just be sure the AVR is not overheating :yes:


Here is what my manual says:

If you use one set (A or B), 
the impedance of each 
speaker must be 8Ω or 
higher. 
If you use two sets (A and 
B), the impedance of each 
speaker must be 16Ω or 
higher.* 
Center 
The impedance of each 
speaker must be 8Ω or 
higher. 
Surround 
Surround back 
6ΩMIN 
Front 
If you use one set (A or B), 
the impedance of each 
speaker must be 4Ω or 
higher. 
If you use two sets (A and 
B), the impedance of each 
speaker must be 8Ω or 
higher. 
Center 
The impedance of each 
speaker must be 6Ω or 
higher. 
Surround 
Surround back


----------



## akakillroy

I found this HERE


> almost all mid range AVR's from the main manufacturers such as Onkyo, Denon, HK, Pioneer, Sony, Yamaha etc have no problems pushing 6ohm speakers even when the AVR is set to for 8ohms. As john was saying you would have to run a receiver real high for extended periodds to experience problems.





> I've learned that in some AVR's, especially Yamaha, that when you set the impedance on it to 6 ohms it will actually lessen the amount of watts output per channel. This is caused by special protection circuits being turned on when the AVR is set to 6ohms.
> 
> Therefore, if you got a good AVR with a good power supply I just say set the AVR to 8ohms and have fun!


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> I found this HERE


That's what I said ....:yes: (remember the 144WPC vs 272WPC) :T

Did you changed back to 8 ohms???? ....... your next addition has to be an external amp to power the fronts :whistling:


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> Did you changed back to 8 ohms????


Why yes, yes I did :T


salvasol said:


> your next addition has to be an external amp to power the fronts :whistling:


Ok so how much is that going to cost me :spend:


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> I just saw the picture on their website (even if they're bookshelf some have holes or includes brackets)...they say that if you want to mount it on a wall use a bracket (similar to what you have, if they can't hold 10lbs look for something bigger) ... or if you don't want to make any holes for the screws (I'm sure you don't :bigsmile just get a pair of small shelf at Lowes or Home Depot (like  this  so they don't show the brackets)


Yup! That is what I ended up doing and they worked perfectly! They say they only are good for 6lbs but I used some better anchors and screws and I am sure they are not going to fall off, but they seem to work great. I also laid the speakers on their side and they pit perfect on the shelf, will probably get another set for the rear surrounds and get them off the ceiling. I will post some pics soon.


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Why yes, yes I did :T Ok so how much is that going to cost me :spend:


I like this two  Samson Servo Series  and  Behringer A500  .... they blend with the rest of the equipment and have RCA connectors; so you just need a cable from AVR preouts to amp and is ready to power your front speakers ...:yes: (BTW, I got the Servo 600 refurbished ... so I paid less than what they show on the link) :bigsmile:


----------



## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> I like this two  Samson Servo Series  and  Behringer A500  .... they blend with the rest of the equipment and have RCA connectors; so you just need a cable from AVR preouts to amp and is ready to power your front speakers ...:yes: (BTW, I got the Servo 600 refurbished ... so I paid less than what they show on the link) :bigsmile:


So how much did you pay, and how many of them do you have, are you powering just the l/R front? I think I can bridge the Yamaha I suppose and use it to power the center I guess.


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> So how much did you pay, and how many of them do you have, are you powering just the l/R front? I think I can bridge the Yamaha I suppose and use it to power the center I guess.


I paid $249 ...I got just one to power L+R, but I'm using two pair of speakers for the front (wired in parallel) so the amp will see a 4 ohm load and produces 300WPC ... so in reality I'm feeding 150 watts to each speaker when amp outputs full power :yes:

The sound changed a lot, and got some load out of the Yamaha (just removing the fronts) ... as far as bridging the amp to power the center I can't tell you ... I remember reading that you can assign the internal amps to bi-amp speakers but I'm not sure about bridging :dontknow:


----------



## akakillroy

Ok have some pictures of the surrounds shelves, thanks salvasol!
View attachment 9828


View attachment 9829


View attachment 9830


View attachment 9831


View attachment 9832


----------



## akakillroy

Ok I think I am at a point where I want to get serious about sound :boxer:

I would like some input on what I should tackle first, I want to create a false wall so I can put all the front stage sound behind it, and maybe pack the corners with fiber. I had read that as an alternative to buying the ridged fiberglass panels and cutting them into triangles and stacking them in the front corners, busing several rolls of RXX fiberglass and just keeping them in the rolled up plastic and stacking them in the corner would work as well, no one is going to see them behind the wall.

Also I figured my screen distance to be a viewing distance of 15' from the front row which was optimum for my 120" screen size. What would happen if I moved to 2' closer and place the screen even with the false wall, my viewing distance will be 13' from the front seating area but right at 15' for the second row (my location). I am sure I have plenty of projector lens shift/zoom to accommodate that, but should I di that or build the wall around the screen and leave it a shadow box? I am just not sure. I think it would look cleaner to do that?


----------



## akakillroy

I updated the first post with new information now that the main part of the project is complete :reading:


----------



## bpape

Seating location should be based on proper distances to avoid room modes in the bass. Adjust screen position accordingly, don't move seats to fit the screen.

As for the corners, yes, the rolled fiberglass can actually work quite well - other than the fact that the plastic will reflect high frequencies.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Seating location should be based on proper distances to avoid room modes in the bass. Adjust screen position accordingly, don't move seats to fit the screen.


 Sorry I should have been clearer on what I planned. The plan was to build the false wall to conceal the speakers and sound dampening material, and move the screen forward 2'. No way I was going to move the seats! This would obviously put the screen 2' closer to the seating area.



bpape said:


> As for the corners, yes, the rolled fiberglass can actually work quite well - other than the fact that the plastic will reflect high frequencies.


Maybe bind it with twine and remove the plastic? Lowes and Home Depot have the rolls of I think R13 for $7.00 a roll :shh:


----------



## bpape

Or, you could sweet talk the Mrs. into sewing you some 'pillowcases' from some Muslin (preferably black) that can be had from JoAnn Fabrics for around $2.50 per yard

Bryan


----------



## salvasol

:rubeyes: . :clap: . They really look nice, everything blends together in your HT ....I'm Happy that everything is working for you ...:T


----------



## salvasol

carls64 said:


> ... What would happen if I moved to 2' closer and place the screen even with the false wall,...


I like it this way .... it will have a flush look and also you will use less material :yes:, dont forget to cover the whole front wall with insulation besides the rolls in the corners for the bass :T



> ...or build the wall around the screen and leave it a shadow box? I am just not sure. I think it would look cleaner to do that?


Same as post #123??? ....:whistling:


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Or, you could sweet talk the Mrs. into sewing you some 'pillowcases' from some Muslin (preferably black) that can be had from JoAnn Fabrics for around $2.50 per yard


Well it would be me doing the sewing she don't do that :nono:

The only problem I see, is based on the location of my speakers/subs I am not sure where I am going to place any sound material :huh:
View attachment 9835


View attachment 9836


View attachment 9837


----------



## bpape

Well, that's a bit of a problem - but easily rectified. Your speakers shouldn't be that close to the front wall anyway. Side wall, not much we can do about it with that big a screen in that narrow room. Pull the speakers forward a couple of feet and you'll find that not only do you have room, but you also probably have smoother upper bass response by getting them out of the corners.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Pull the speakers forward a couple of feet and you'll find that not only do you have room, but you also probably have smoother upper bass response by getting them out of the corners.


Does that mean the center channel and the subs too?


----------



## bpape

Potentially, yes. Sub positioning is critical. Even a few inches front to back or left to right can drastically change frequency response. Use REW and play with positioning and see for yoursefl

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

Yes I have REW setup and have been using it for some time, getting ready to do it again with the new subs.:T


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Potentially, yes. Sub positioning is critical. Even a few inches front to back or left to right can drastically change frequency response. Use REW and play with positioning and see for yourself


So move the LCR forward about 2 feet, leave the subs there until I config with REW, this gives me room in the corners from some sound material, but if I move the speakers 2 feet forward, that will put them in front on my purposed false wall, onder: is that the back of the speaker about 2 feet from the wall or is that the front of the speaker away from the wall. :thud:
Sorry to ask so many questions, I suppose that is where a forum/text does not always make the best way to converse. So many questions. Thanks for all your help!

Looks like the price on a roll of R13 is now around $10 so if they are 18" wide I will need at least 4 high that is 6' I am bout 7' ceiling so double that's 8 so about $80. I don;t remember how much the sheet stuff was at 2" thick cut in to corners, if it's not much more I might be better going that way. I want simple and easy :sad:

I think you gave me a contact locally here in IL, close to St Louis and they had a outlet in Glen Carbon or Swansie I think that carried that stuff. Ya HERE it is.


----------



## akakillroy

bpape, is this the stuff I want, it is what Liz sent me information for. Back in July it was about $27 per sleeve (6 x 24"x48"x2", 4 x 24"x48"x4").
View attachment 9838


----------



## bpape

Actually, the 4" will only be 3 pcs to a sleeve. 

Your call on the wall. I'm just trying to give the speakers some breathing room. If you can only swing 2' for the false wall, then it'll have to be the front - but it's still better than where they are now. Play with positioning on the mains also. You can tweak things quite a bit with an inch or 2 movement.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

Ah right, 3 pieces. I figure if I completely cover the screen wall I will need to sleeves of 2" and 2 sleeves of 4" to do the two corners. I will experiment with the speakers before deciding where to place the wall. I am going to see how much I have to work with in regard to distance of the screen and projector, I know I will loose 2' between the seating and the screen if I move the screen with the wall, which will look better visually, but maybe not be better for watching movies. Saying that with a 120" screen the optimum viewing distance is 15'.


----------



## thewire

When you move the left and right, try aiming them more towards the center of the room.


----------



## akakillroy

bpape, your location says Wildwood, MO (St Louis) didn't realize you were that close to me, you should know where Bethalto, Il is, I am close to Alton, IL Your Link to GIK is Atlanta, GA :dontknow:


----------



## bpape

Yeah - well, it's a virtual world. The GIK headquarters and factory is in Atlanta, GA. I work remotely via email and phone from Wildwood (far West St. Louis) Our diffusion designer, Jason, lives in Seattle, WA. 

As for toe-in, MOST speakers acutally do better if you don't aim them right at you. Try toe in to point about 4-6' behind your seated head position. Not all work this way but it's usually a good starting point.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

bpape, Is there anywhere else I can get the mineral wool? It seems the company you gave me info for will not sell to individuals, and they are currently out of the 4" stuff.


----------



## bpape

Really... They're probably the best place to go. If you PM me with your number, I'll give you a call and we can work something out. When they get back in stock, I can go pick it up and we can meet somewhere.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

I leave for Florida on the 14th of Nov, and they said they probably will not have it before then so it will have to wait until I get back in Dec :-(


----------



## bpape

Lemme know what you want. I can go ahead and get it if you're sure you want it. 

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

Need to figure out how much I need too, My screen wall is 89" high, so I want two base traps in the corners, I think we talked and I need 2 x 3 sheet packs of the 4" gives me 96" for the corners at 17x17x24 ? right, then if I get the 2" material I want to cover the screen wall (Behind) and move the screen forward even with the false wall, so After the 17" on either side with the corner basetraps that leave me with 119" x 89" (153" [12'9"] - 2x17=34, = 119") I need 10,591 sq" and each piece of 2" materials is 24x48 or 1,152" into 10,591" looks like 9.19 pieces, so I would need 2 packs of 6 if my math is correct that leave me with a couple of pieces to use for some wall treatments.

So I would need to 2 x 4" (3 pack) and 2 x 2" (6 pack) so that right?

If I move my false wall forward 2' and move my screen flush with it, I will need about 6 yards of fabric to cover the area around the screen. That will make my viewing distance about 13" at the front seats and 16' at the 2nd row. I should be ok shouldn't I? If I shadow box the screen it will be more work and more fabric and then I can't get any insulation behind the screen.


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Lemme know what you want. I can go ahead and get it if you're sure you want it.
> 
> Bryan


I have been reading so much lately, this stuff is equivalent or better then the Owens corning stuff? Its very inexpensive compared to it for sure.


----------



## bpape

In the proper density for the proper usages, it can be just as effective. It's certainly less expensive but IMO it's a LOT harder to work with, cut cleanly, etc. than 703. 

If you're looking to make bass absorbers, I always have seconds of 703 that can be more reasonably priced and work just fine when you don't need perfectly square corners, etc. Sometimes, I get cartons where the edge has been banged up, corner munched, etc. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about depending on what you need.

Let me know.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

Well what I am planning on everything will be behind the false wall except for the panels I make for the walls, but for now I am going to start with the base traps in the corners and cover the rear of the screen wall.


----------



## bpape

Either will work fine. The 703 seconds will be much easier to cut into triangles cleanly. They'll still be a bit more expensive than mineral wool and there will be more cutting as the 703 is 2" thick. All a matter of time and hassle vs. money.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

can you tell me or PM me what it would cost? The more I look a the other fabric offerings around and the fact i do not need that much material, I think I would be happier to get some GOM instead of say Dazian, I got a couple samples of their Expo and Celtic cloth and the Expo has a strange pattern in it and it has a bit of a sheen. The Celtic cloth is thicker but It seems to block some sound. I think I only need about 6-8 yards at 66"

I have the sides which are 22" the top is 3-4" and the bottom is 23". So top to bottom is 22"x89" with a couple inches for overlap to staple. So I figure 3 yards to do both sides, then the middle section top and bottom subtracting 22 each side, 153-44=109 so another 2 yards to do the top and bottom, I get 5 yards, 6 for good measure in case of mistakes ;-)


----------



## bpape

You have PM.


----------



## akakillroy

Ok per my previous posts I have moved the screen away from the wall about 2' this will give me room for some acoustical treatments and bass traps behind the screen and flush mount the speakers and subs, and hide them :yes: I planned on taking pictures but both my cameras are in Florida with the wife :duh:.

Here are pictures I took with my iPhone sorry for the quality.
View attachment 9987


View attachment 9988


View attachment 9989


View attachment 9990


View attachment 9991

Basically I ran me a 2x4 nailers (2 - 6') across the ceiling with the front edge 2' then I 2 - 2x4's on the ends of where the screen goes, leaving me a 1" over hand for mounting frames of GOM. The I used 2 - 2x2's evenly spaced behind the screen for the screen mounts, and two more close to the walls on either side, this will give me a surface to mount the frames. All 6 boards are then anchored to the floor. This give me more than enough support for the screen and the frames to cover the wall.

So I now have 2' of space behind the screen, and my screen is about 2'2" away fro the wall now. This will conceal the insulating material that I will use the in the corners and wall, as well as the speakers and the subs, and wall outlets. 

I am going to get with bpape this week to get some 703 and order some GOM, that will give me time to make my frames for the GOM.

Not bad work for one day, about 6 hours. Had to disconnect all the speakers, move the speakers, move the screen. Measure, drill paint the boards, drill and screen, and drill into the concrete and anchored the supports to the floor. And put the screen back up. I am slow :gulp:


----------



## akakillroy

Well I created a problem for myself, moving the screen closer to the projector has almost exceeded the zoom of the lens. I have about another foot before the lens is at its extreme of 2.0x.

Now my question is, is it better to be on the 2x side or the 1 x side for best image quality? If I move the camera back to the equipment rack, placing it inside the rack area I would be close to the 1x extreme, by about the same as I am now where the projector is, I could build a box/shelf moving it forward from the rack about 1 1/2 foot that would put me back in the "sweet" spot for the zoom? Any thoughts?

If i move it back from where it is at it will be right above the rear seats, and I know someone will hit their head on it for sure. Oh what a delema.


----------



## tenzip

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the best PQ is at minimum zoom, closer to the 1x end. Get some other, more definitive opinions before going with that, though.

Whatever you do, don't mount it so that you are right at either extreme, it's always good to have a little adjustment.

The screen/mounting looks really nice, by the way. You're going to make a false wall even with the screen out of the GOM? Or maybe I should go back and read some of the earlier posts.


----------



## akakillroy

tenzip said:


> I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the best PQ is at minimum zoom, closer to the 1x end. Get some other, more definitive opinions before going with that, though.


Ya that seems to be the concensious, although I have ready that you really don;t want to be at eather end, but if I move it back to where the equipment area is, as long as I can clear the overhand where the projector is now and miss the heads of the people in the second row, I would be at about 1.10x zoom at 22'



tenzip said:


> Whatever you do, don't mount it so that you are right at either extreme, it's always good to have a little adjustment.


Right, at 1.10x I may have about a foot to play with. It will be easy to try it as mounting it on a shelf will be easy compared to how its mounted now, and it will be quieter as the projector will be behind us!



tenzip said:


> The screen/mounting looks really nice, by the way. You're going to make a false wall even with the screen out of the GOM? Or maybe I should go back and read some of the earlier posts.


Correct, I am going to get to work on the frames for the 4 section that will be GOM'ed as well as the back wall being hit with some 703 ;-)


----------



## akakillroy

Well I have moved the projector back to the equipment rack area in the wall. And I have about 1.5 foot of adjustment left on the long end and I have to say I like this location MUCH better, I do not think I would have been able to accomplish this if I had not moved the screen. So it all seems to have worked out well.

I was able to spend a little time watching some material to get an idea of the perspective now that the screen is 2'closer to the first row. I like the fact the screen appears to be bigger now, more like I was hoping for originally.

Based on THIS for my projector the optimum viewing distance was 12-19' and sitting in the front row it seems to be a bit far for me, and the second row was of course even further.

I will try and take some photos tonight of what I did. All in all I am very happy I did this, it gets the projector off the ceiling and away from everyone viewing so I am sure it will be quieter that it was having the projector hanging overhead :clap:


----------



## akakillroy

Well a BIG thank you to bpape for setting me up with some 703 for my bass traps and front screen wall. Sure beast paying for shipping, and I was happy to finally meet Bryan. I can now get started cutting my triangles. Going to watch a movie or two with a friend tonight. It will be the first time now that the screen has been moved. Almost forgot to re-calibrate the speakers.


----------



## bpape

Have fun Carl. Don't forget to post some pics.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

I only have my iPhone right now to take pictures but I will take what I can, it may have to wait until December when I am back from Sunny Florida!

I will take pictures of the entire process, from cutting to mounting so others can see how to, I know from my experience I have never found progress photos so I am sure there are some details that would be useful. bpape gave me some good advice on making some guides for the 703 triangles to keep them in place, by cutting some 5/8 or 3/4" plywood or MDF in 1-2" strips and run them the height of the wall/corner cut at a 45 degree on both side, it gives you a guide to install the 703 as well as a surface to staple/mount your GOM in the event you are not walling in the end of your room. I believe I am going to just use some binding cord/string from top to bottom and force an extra piece of 703 in at the top to pressure fit it all to keep it in place. Not sure yet how to mount the panels to the front wall, but bpape also said that just screwing it to the wall with some 3 1/2" drywall screws and fender washers would work. Not sure I would want to glue it to the wall or not.


----------



## akakillroy

I have all my triangles cut for my front wall bass traps, now I have to lug them down the basement, that will be another night. All in all it was very easy to do, with the right tool. You need a extendable "razor" knife. The kind that has the retractable blade that you can break off the section as the point gets dull. This way you can cut right through the 2" 703 with ease.
The one I used came from ACE. They had a cheep plastic one for $2.79 that had 2 extra blades, but they had a heavy duty one for $4.79 that included 6 blades, and the blades were $3.79 for 4 blades so I figured I got a deal :yes:

Here are the photos of the process:

Who is this masked man!
View attachment 10086


One "Razor" knife from ACE
View attachment 10087


Measure over 24" on the long 48" side to make 2' x 2' squares.
View attachment 10088


Use a straight edge and cut through for your first cut. Also you will want to ware a long sleeve shirt and paints and a pair of gloves, this stuff gets all over when you are cutting and moving it around. I also highly recommend a mask, suitable for working with fiberglass insulation, you don't want to be breathing this stuff. Scary to think I am going to put it in an enclosed room :gulp: 
View attachment 10089


Next make your diagonal cuts from corner to corner of the 2' squares. I recommend that you cut almost to the end, then turn around and cut back toward the point where you stopped from the opposite corner to avoid "tearing" the corners out as you see here.
View attachment 10090


Make your next corner to corner cut.
View attachment 10091


Do this to both "squares". Also I found that using a piece of cardboard helped me make the cuts without cutting into another sheet of 703, and it provided a good base to where the material stayed together while cutting. It also provided a nice cutting surface.
View attachment 10092


Wedge removed.
View attachment 10093


92 completed wedges
View attachment 10094


Almost a match :innocent:
View attachment 10095


I need about 44 for each corner but I measured the thickness and it was not quite 2" so I think I will need 45 in order to fill the corners. Next I will have to take down the screen again to install the 703 in the corners and to cover the wall. I also notices when I measured for the frames that will go around the screen that I am off about 1/4 on the right top corner, and it is throwing all the corners off by 1/2" so I will need to re-measure my screen mounts so I do not have to make fancy cuts on my frames.

I have 7 yards of GOM ordered from bpape to finish the frames, I hope to have the insulation in and the frames done by the time it gets here. More pictures maybe tomorrow, I am done for the night. "scratch"


----------



## thewire

Nice work. That mask will come in handy with the installation and cleanup also. I usually wait a good 24 hours before entering the room after working with fiberglass, or I watch the movie with it on. I like to duct tape mine to my face since it did not have the nice support on them like yours.


----------



## akakillroy

I am not sure how I am going to keep the 703 in place, I don't want to use a spray adhesive in case I ever want to remove it, and re-use it, this stuff is not cheep! So I think I am going to run me two pieces of string from the top to the bottom in each corner to hole the wedges in place and tack it in place.

For the section that will be mounted to the wall I will use some 3" drywall screws and some styrene plastic sheet cut into 1 to 1/2-2" squares and run through the 703 in the four corners into the drywall behind. I will be putting this on the front wall and if I have enough scrap I will put some on the side walls and ceiling in the 2' cavity so the whole front wall in its 2' confinement will be "killed" with 703.

bpape also suggested that I raise the subs off the floor about 11" I am not sure he knew that the floor is concrete or not, but if he is reading he can let me know. I will build some platforms out of 3/4" MDF and 2x4's that will get them off the floor and more behind the screen.

I will take some more pictures tonight of the process. I will also start working on the frames to be covered by GOM to fill in around the screen and cover the 703 and false wall. I have some 1"x2" boards that seem to be pretty straight, I am not planning on being fancy as I have seen some others do, by mitering the corners or using a tool to drill countersunk diagonal holes and screw them together, I am going to glue and use some 3" brad nails in my air nailer onder: I may even lay the boards on edge for my strength and it will give me a 2" depth on the frame where then the screen will be slightly inset in the wall rather then outset as the screen is about 1 1/2" thick :yes:


----------



## akakillroy

Well all the 703 is up, and I am currently working on the frames to go around the screen area. I will post some photos tonight of the progress. I had to get creative account where the breaker box was as the 703 was covering the box. I cut 4 pieces of cardboard into triangles and glues them to the 703, and a 7 piece section of 704 along with a strap to grab a hold of. This makes a wedge of 703 the size of the breaker box so I can pull it out when I need to get to the box.
I am waiting for my black GOM to arrive, I should be ready for it tonight when I complete the frames. I did not take photos of the construction part, but I will take some pictures of the completed frames to show the construction before I paint them and cover them with the GOM.

I discovered when I leveled the screen mounts that the laser level I had the bubble was off :gulp: so I had to use a regular level on top of the laser level to get the mounts straight. I was about 1/4 off on the right side as a result. Now that it is level my frames all match very well with the exception for between the ceiling and the frame so I will have to get a little creative with that as well.

I made my frames out of some 1"x2" firing strips, they were not all that straight but after screwing them together and adding some extra "ribs" to the middle it will be straight enough when I attache the Velcro it will lay flat in there. They are snug fitting too, so when the GOM is stretched over them they will be that much more "snug" so they will probably go in friction mount without the need of Velcro.

I also made 11" platforms for my subs. I tried them where the port was pointing toward the seats, toward the outer walls, and toward each other. I found no significant difference in sound based on the direction of the ports. So I left them pointing toward each other since my RCA cables were not long enough to leave them any other way. I then placed a 2'x2' piece of 2" 703 in the middle between them just to be safe, in fear of any cancellation.

I spent some time listening to the system after I had finished with the 703 installation, and I have to say it makes s BIG difference, I definitely have more separation and more definition in the mid bass and mid range. Most of what I am hearing now is reflection off the walls, I will have to address that next.


----------



## akakillroy

All the 703 cut from the other day (Almost all of it)
View attachment 10233


Stuffing it in the corners. Had to make some "tunnels" for the power and audio cables.
View attachment 10234


Secured it in several spots with some 3" drywall screws and some plastic "price tag" inserts the guy at ACE hardware gave me. They worked out very well. No need to glue the wedges to the wall or each other.
View attachment 10235


Left side done, there is 45 wedges in there it fills a 7'5" space.
View attachment 10236


Right side now. Have to figure out how to accommodate the breaker box.
View attachment 10237


Cutting some cardboard triangles that will be used to make a removable section of 703 for the breaker box.
View attachment 10238


Finished triangle, made from some project construction board.
View attachment 10239


Materials needed to make the removable section. 3M 77 Adhesive, gloves (ware a long sleeve shirt, an old one as the spray adhesive floats all over the place.), some strapping material and the cardboard triangles (4 of them).
View attachment 10240


Glue the strapping material to one of the cardboard triangles.
View attachment 10241


Now glue all the 703 wedges together, I needed 7 of them to cover the height of the breaker box.
View attachment 10242


Completed removable wedge covering breaker box. Its a snug fit but works quite well.
View attachment 10243


The wedge removed.
View attachment 10244


Both corners done.
View attachment 10245


703 going up on on the walls.
View attachment 10246


Wall complete, 2" of 703.
View attachment 10247


Some extra 703 placed on the side walls.
View attachment 10248


Speakers back in place. On the suggestion of bpape I built some platforms for the subs. Ready for the screen to go back up.
View attachment 10249


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## salvasol

Nice Job!!!! :T

Question: The panels you're making to cover the gap between screen and walls are movable, Right???

Remember that you need access to switch box :yes:


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## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> Nice Job!!!! :T
> 
> Question: The panels you're making to cover the gap between screen and walls are movable, Right???
> 
> Remember that you need access to switch box :yes:


Yes :yes: Will take some pictures of those as well. They are not pretty but they will get the job done.


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## Prof.

Very nicely done..:T
What will you be using to cover all that 703 with on the front wall, so it can't be seen.?


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## akakillroy

Prof. said:


> Very nicely done..:T
> What will you be using to cover all that 703 with on the front wall, so it can't be seen.?


Ah, see the next post :whistling:


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## akakillroy

My GOM showed up on my door step today! In the rain :crying: but it was thankfully dry :T So I timed it well as I had completed the frames last night, and had them mostly painted, with a few tough ups this morning.

The screen wall is mostly done with the exception of the very top section above the screen. You can't see it. I am not sure what will happen when the projector lights up that area :shh: but we shall see.

Here is the photos of the fame building and the GOM install. I was in a hurry as I have a friend coming over this evening around 7 to watch a movie, so I didn't take any photos of me stretching the GOM on the frames and stapling. My manual staple gun broke about 1/10 of the way through the build, so I had to run out and get me a new one. I opted for an electric one. It seems to work well. It sure made short order of the process.

I used 1/4" T-50 staples and a Stanly electric stapler.

One of the side frames. These were constructed using 1x2 furring strips. They are not perfectly straight but flex enough that when in place and secured they will lay flat.
View attachment 10256


Another "side" frame, these do not have the cross members in them yet, I had to wait until I measured the speakers to be sure I did not run one in front of a driver. I ended up building some 12" stands for the L/R speakers to get them a little higher off the ground and closer to ear level.
View attachment 10257


Construction of the lower center frame. Each piece was measured then cut. Then each section to be assembled was secured with a clamp to the table where I drilled holes just slightly smaller than the screws I used to keep from splitting the wood as I screwed them together. Each section was secured using two, 2 1/4" deck screws. No glue. Note the offset in the corner to accommodate the baseboards. When the fabric is stretched over this area it will fit snugly around the baseboard.
View attachment 10258


Completed lower center section.
View attachment 10259


All the frames test fitted. Note the L/R 12" stands. I will build another for the center channel as well as I wanted to get it up a little higher than the other stand allowed. Also my center channel speaker is bigger that its predecessor so the new stand was slightly bigger.
View attachment 10260


GOM Arrived much to my surprise! Thanks bpape!
View attachment 10261


The frames were then painted black with extra paint I had left from the ceiling. I used a 3" roller and a brush to do all the inside right angles where the roller could not get.
View attachment 10262


Sorry I have no pictures of the GOM install on the frames, I was in a hurry and didn't take the time however I will explain what I did.
First I rolled the GOM out on the floor and then simply laid the frame down lengthwise on the edge of the GOM leaving about 3" overhang of GOM to pull over the back to the frame edge. Then I used a electric staple gun (my manual one broke) and placed a staple about every 1" of material. Once that side was done I cut the other side leaving about 3" over hand. Same for the ends 3-4" over hand before you cut it. Then I stretched (not SUPER tight) just as much as you can pull over the sedge using one hand, pull it snug and staple. Again 1" placement of staples. Next the ends, work you way from one side to the other folding the corners like gift wrap over the corners and staple to the back side. Pulling tight as you do. You have to do this as evening as you can and not too tight because if not you will get areas that are pulled tighter than other and you will see areas on the front that look pleated and you don't want that. Some of it will pull smooth when you stretch the ends, so don;t be too concerned with that. It went very fast I had all three of them done in about 40 min. Stopping from time to time for a break.

Lower center panel in place, it was a tight fit.
View attachment 10263


Left panel installed, another tight fit.
View attachment 10264


Close up of where the two sections join. When I assembled the frames the 1x2's had a rounded edge to them and I used that side as the outside of the frames so they resulted in a nice edge when the GOM was stretched and stapled over them. As you can see by placing the 1x2's on their edge this gave me enough depth that the panels are just about flush with the screen frame.
View attachment 10265


I needed a way that I could take these out in the event I needed back behind the screen so I cut some strapping material (the same I used for the 704 wedge for the breaker box) and stapled it to the back of the frame leaving just enough exposed that I could get a hold of it to pull it out.
View attachment 10266


Closeup of the right side where they come together.
View attachment 10267


Completed frames installed.
View attachment 10268


Right side.
View attachment 10269


Left side.
View attachment 10270


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## tenzip

Sweet.

That looks exceptional. Good job Carl.


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## Prof.

Now it's looking like a Theatre...Well done..:T

I take it that those GOM covered panels are removeable!..How have you attached them.?


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## akakillroy

Prof. said:


> Now it's looking like a Theatre...Well done..:T
> 
> I take it that those GOM covered panels are removeable!..How have you attached them.?


Thanks!

They are just pressure fitted. the one on the right is REAL tight ;-)


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## bpape

Nice job on the frames Carl. Very clean looking. Wait till you watch the first movie against that black background 

Bryan


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## Prof.

carls64 said:


> Thanks!
> 
> They are just pressure fitted. the one on the right is REAL tight ;-)


Hmm...They might be allright like that for now, but with any movement of the room..or room vibrations from those subs..they may not stay there..
A few strips of Velcro on the back, strategically placed will do the trick..


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## salvasol

:rubeyes: . :clap: . :T


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## akakillroy

Well Hellboy 2 was awesome! I need to tweak the sound a it as the background audio seems to drowned out the dialog, but that could be the APO not getting the audio right. The center channel does seem to be configured a little low. Will have to run REW again and see how it looks now


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## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Nice job on the frames Carl. Very clean looking. Wait till you watch the first movie against that black background
> 
> Bryan


It was great! No reflections off anything. I was a little worried that the platforms I made that I didn't paint black would show through but nope, it looks great!. I was very supprised to see my GOM on the porch this morning ;-) Thank you! I didn't quite use 6 yards, so I have about 40" x 3 yards and another full yard left ;-) and a 10" strip about 6 yards long for the top. I didn't get that done but hell you can't even tell with it so dark on the top and its only 3" from the ceiling to the top of the screen frame I am not even sure it would be worth me making a frame for that ;-)

When I get back in December I will take some better pictures.


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## akakillroy

Prof. said:


> Hmm...They might be allright like that for now, but with any movement of the room..or room vibrations from those subs..they may not stay there..
> A few strips of Velcro on the back, strategically placed will do the trick..


Oh believe me their tight, I had to use a plastic hammer and a block of wood to get them in. It actually flexed the frame as such I had to use a putty knife to to tuck some of the GOM under the frame by the floot to tighten up the GOM as it was sagging a bit. Good thing I put some small "pull tabs" in places to I could pull them out when I needed.


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## akakillroy

I updated the panel install with some text if anyone is interested, it should help answer some questions about the install. I will now that I would have taken some photos of the GOM being installed on the frames, but I was pressed for time.


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## Prof.

carls64 said:


> Well Hellboy 2 was awesome!


OT for a moment..Would you rate is as good or better than Hellboy 1.?


----------



## Prof.

carls64 said:


> Oh believe me their tight, I had to use a plastic hammer and a block of wood to get them in. It actually flexed the frame as such I had to use a putty knife to to tuck some of the GOM under the frame by the floot to tighten up the GOM as it was sagging a bit. Good thing I put some small "pull tabs" in places to I could pull them out when I needed.


Sounds like the're really jammed in there..:bigsmile:
Good idea with the pull tabs..otherwise you might have damaged them, trying to get them off again..:yes:


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## akakillroy

Prof. said:


> OT for a moment..Would you rate is as good or better than Hellboy 1.?


I think I liked HB1 better. HB2 had a lot more comedy in it, and took things a little less seriously, if there is such a thing for these types of movies :1eye: I think the HB2 story line was a little better than HB1 but they did not delve very deep into it. HB2 had more action and fight sequences, but I thin HB1 had a better story. If I could only own one I would have to say HB1 was better. Unlike most "squeals" the first is usually the best IMO, Matrix, etc. However two franchise I would say the Indiana Jones series, the best was the third (Last Crusade), and star wars EP5 (Empire) and EP3 (Revenge) were the best.


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## Prof.

carls64 said:


> I think I liked HB1 better. HB2 had a lot more comedy in it, and took things a little less seriously, if there is such a thing for these types of movies :1eye: I think the HB2 story line was a little better than HB1 but they did not delve very deep into it. HB2 had more action and fight sequences, but I thin HB1 had a better story. If I could only own one I would have to say HB1 was better.
> Sounds like it would be at least worth renting..
> 
> Unlike most "squeals" the first is usually the best IMO, Matrix, etc. However two franchise I would say the Indiana Jones series, the best was the third (Last Crusade)
> I agree, except I would also now include "The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull"
> 
> and star wars EP5 (Empire) and EP3 (Revenge) were the best.


Totally agree..The Empire' is my favourite of the whole series..:T


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## akakillroy

Need help deciding on a GOM color for wall treatments. Again all I have is my iPhone (Half tempted to go to Wal-Mart and buy a new camera so I have one while mine are riding around in the wife's mini-van in Florida!) to take photos with so the colors are a little off. The lighter color GOM comes real close to matching the wall color while the darker color seems to contrast with the walls slightly better. What do you all think? Left Dark Burgundy / Right is Sienna (I think)

#1
View attachment 10299

#2
View attachment 10300

#3
View attachment 10301

#4
View attachment 10302


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## salvasol

carls64 said:


> ... The lighter color GOM comes real close to matching the wall color while the darker color seems to contrast with the walls slightly better. What do you all think? Left Dark Burgundy / Right is Sienna (I think)...


Which one you like better??? ....to me, a color that match the wall is better (less noticeable), but if you use a darker color and blends will the rest is okay too ...

When I got my panels (I did a blind purchase) I went with the color I thought it was the best match ...I'm happy with the results (here is a picture of mines, I changed the color to some to blend with the rest of the room ...sometimes pictures don't make justice, they look better in person :yes


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## akakillroy

These better represent the true colors, with incandescent lighting the iPhone does a poor job of rendering colors correctly, I see a trip to Wal-Mart coming!
View attachment 10305


View attachment 10306


View attachment 10307


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## akakillroy

salvasol said:


> Which one you like better??? ....to me, a color that match the wall is better (less noticeable), but if you use a darker color and blends will the rest is okay too ...
> 
> When I got my panels (I did a blind purchase) I went with the color I thought it was the best match ...I'm happy with the results (here is a picture of mines, I changed the color to some to blend with the rest of the room ...sometimes pictures don't make justice, they look better in person :yes


Looks like you have some black ones in there too?

I have enough black GOM to do about 4 wall traps.

I kinda like the darker as it does give some contrast to the walls but the lighter color seems to blend in better, kinda the theme of the room, everything just blends in, but it might be nice to add a little contour to the area with the darker panels.


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## bpape

The darker the better if the walls are at all dark. Everything you posted looks Orange to me but assume it's not. Deep Burgandy is one of the most popular HT colors

Bryan


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## tenzip

I would think the darker would be better, particularly if these are to be on the side walls, less chance of them 'glowing' in reflected light from the screen and being a distraction in your peripheral vision.

But you're there looking at them, I'm not.


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## salvasol

Bryan and Chris are right (about the dark color).

That's the reason I covered in black, they're close to the TV and get a lot of reflection ... then I used the burgandy (dark) and finally the printed :yes:


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## Prof.

I also agree with the darker panels..
I have black panels against dark olive green walls..but it does come down to what you find aesthetically pleasing..

Some people prefer that they blend in more with the wall colour so as not to be as noticeable..


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## chumbucket

Does anyone know what the model or sku number is for the sconces that Carl used in this build? I've been to Home Depot and their web site and can't find these. Does anyone else know where to find this or something similar. It seems like all I find are brass and glass sconces.


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## akakillroy

Looks like the do not carry them any more. but they do carry these now! I would rather had these:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...Id=10053&productId=100469853&N=10000003+90401


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## chumbucket

carls64 said:


> Looks like the do not carry them any more. but they do carry these now! I would rather had these:
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...Id=10053&productId=100469853&N=10000003+90401


Yikes. $53.10 a piece? I need something cheaper. I've got to get about a half dozen of 'em or so. These are more up my alley - http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=79511-2122-5019-20&detail=&lpage=none


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## akakillroy

Those are almost if not identical to the ones I have, but I paid $20 each! ;-)


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## salvasol

chumbucket said:


> These are more up my alley - http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=79511-2122-5019-20&detail=&lpage=none


Those looks nice ...and cheaper than $53 :yes:

I'm sure that you can paint them if they don't have the color you need/want :yes:


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## akakillroy

Time for an update. I received my Deep Burgundy GOM (Thanks bpape!) so I can get started on my wall treatments.

I found some 4'x8'x1/2" Birch hardwood plywood and a guy at Home Depot cut it into 2" strips for me so I have enough to make about 10 or so absorption panels 2'x'4'.

I have been pondering on beveling the edges or just leaving the cut, but I am afraid it will look funky so I am thinking of using a 45 degree router bit on the edge about 1/4 or simply rounding the edges with a router bit. Not sure. I think I will definitely paint them the same color as the wall, which is close to the color of the GOM as while testing the stretch over the frame I can see through the fabric and the wood color comes through, not sure what they would do at any distance, maybe not see it at all but want to be sure.

I will assemble them with 1" crown staples, and use 2" OC703. I will take pictures when I begin assembling them.

Lastly I have decided to get a dedicated amp for the front and surround speakers, I found a good deal on a used Emotiva LPA-1 7 Channel amp, at 125W Per channel that should power my ED Towers and center channel speakers. I hope I will get a better sound than using the internal Yamaha 663 at 95 Watts.

Ed is building some Dipole surround speakers too, I may pick up a pair of those soon, but the waiting list is out in January for those.


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## akakillroy

Well I ended up NOT painting the frames and rounding the edges of the frame rather then beveling them,, made up two 2'x4' panels and they look pretty good. I have some pictures to post soon.


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## akakillroy

I needed some interconnects for my new amp and receiver and I had been pricing them at a number of places. I was going to buy the Monoprice interconnects then I spotted Tartan Cable (in the ad section at the top of the forum) and decided to try them.

First of many may already know this but some may not but Tartan is a sister company of Blue Jeans cables. So they use some of the same quality cable and connectors but they are pre-made in china.

I have to say the build quality is outstanding and the material quality is amazing. The price is a little higher than Monoprice but i thing the product is a lot better. I have some monoprice cables and I like these better. So if your shopping for cables and do not want to spend a fortune give Tartan a try.


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## akakillroy

I have my new (bought it 2nd had, new to me ;-)) Emotiva LPA1 7 Channel Amplifier, and got it hooked up last night in time for some friends to come out and watch a movie. I was not able to definitive tell a difference with the new amp, but I will say the dialog and ambient sound was much more defined.

Also while checking through my calibration of the receiver, the distance that the auto calibration showed for the subs was 1ft! I changed to toe the same distance as the LCR as they are all close to the same location, not sure if that helped or hurt anything.

I am going to take some more photos soon and post.


----------



## bpape

Sounds to me like maybe there's a phase issue with the subs. Try adjusting it and see if that changes the distance it perceives.

Bryan


----------



## akakillroy

Ok here we go new photos, now that I have all my photo equipment back ;-)
(Full size and the rest of the build can be found HERE)

New projector location and mounting. Emotiva LPA-1 7 Channel Amplifier (That thing is HUGE!)
View attachment 10795
View attachment 10796


Screen wall from front row seats. eD Speakers all hidden inside.
View attachment 10798


Screen wall from 2nd row seats
View attachment 10799


First reflection point (1) mounting right side
View attachment 10800


First reflection point (1) mounting left side
View attachment 10801


Closeup detail of screen wall.
View attachment 10802


View attachment 10803


View attachment 10804


Another shot of projector mounting
View attachment 10805


Back side of projector mounting
View attachment 10806


Right side back of projector mounting.
View attachment 10807


Back of Emotiva amp, did I mention that this thing is BIG!
View attachment 10808


Extra brace for amp shelf, it weighs in at around 70lbs!
View attachment 10809


Another angle from back of room to the front screen wall.
View attachment 10810


----------



## akakillroy

bpape said:


> Sounds to me like maybe there's a phase issue with the subs. Try adjusting it and see if that changes the distance it perceives.
> 
> Bryan


You know now that you say that the calibration resulted in the back surrounds saying they were out of phase, strange. I never checked before what the subs distance was being calibrated at I just assumed that it knew the correct place ;-) I may just need to manualy set everything and forgo the auto calibration :huh:


----------



## akakillroy

Well I decided to purchase some new surround speakers, hope they will get here by the weekend, in the mean time I updated the first post of my project thread with new pictures and system details. I also added links to most of the products used as well as some key links within the thread showing details of the build.

Direct link

Enjoy!


----------



## akakillroy

*Acoustical treatments*

Well I am having trouble figuring out exactly where to place the wall treatments. I don;t really have anyone t o help me (with the patients) to use the mirror method of finding FRP so I used the calculation method found HERE Figure 4 and I came up with the First Reflection points for all the seating locations. I used masking tape to mark the location on the floor next to the wall and then did my best to locate the panels in the middle of the locations for the best coverage.

The problem I am running in to is I am not sure about where to place the panels vertically, Should they be placed at the ear level or the location (level) where the speaker tweeters are?

In the following photos I have placed all the panels at the location of the tweeters it just so happens the at the L/R speakers are at ear level putting the panels at ear level for both rows of seating while the center channel is under the screen so that panels is placed at its tweeter level.

Should I place the panels all at ear level? If I do I can get better coverage as the panels are 4' long and I would get a better dispersion and cover the whole area of reflection points.
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## bpape

Mount the panels vertically starting about 2' off the floor. If the sconce is causing an issue, you can go a bit lower.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

I have the new Emotiva surrounds up, took me a while to get some photos up, they have been up for about a week now. I still have some touch up work to do on the wall, I want to fill in the holes in the wall where the original surround cable boxes were as the cable no is just ran through a hole in the wall to the back of the speakers. 
These do not stick out from the wall as far as the eD's did and now that frees them up to be my rear surrounds and I can final get rid of the rest of the HTIB Polks I have there now. Just have to figure out the best way to mount them as they are bigger than the Polks and the one on the right (rear) is just above the entry door. I may have to move them both closer inward toward the middle of the room to make them work. Anyhow here are some pictures of the unboxing and mounting.
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## akakillroy

Last night we had my wife's nephue and his wife along with the wife's daughter and boyfriend over so that filled all but two of the seats up, not sure why no one wanted to sit in the middle though LOL those are the best seats. We screened Wanted. The only comment I got was, "It was LOUD!" :thud:
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## salvasol

Nice work :T.


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## akakillroy

Thank you!

I had a half day of work today, so I spent the afternoon building a couple more acoustical panels and temporarily hanging them to see what the results were, I have not done any definitive mesurements or listening yet, but hopefully will do that tomorrow.

I took bpape's advice and hung 4 of the vertically on each side wall. I am out of 703 so I can't make any more for the rear (not that I have room) and I may make a few for the ceiling, have to cover those in black GOM though. I will take some more pictures tomorrow.

Next project is to take down the polk audio rear surrounds and put up the eD Bookshelf's in their place. I have to move the closer to the center of the wall as currently the pols are very close to the corners and the one on the left rear is right above where the entry door swings open so I do not have the room between the ceiling and the door to mount the bigger eD speakers. Be nice to get those Polk's down ans they are hung with white mounting brackets and they stick out like a sore thumb :T


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## Sonnie

Yes indeed... very nice work. :hail: :hail: :hail: 

Makes me want to get started on my new dedicated theater... but I ain't got the funds. :hissyfit:

I am jealous!


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## akakillroy

I am starting to wish that I had not built the equipment rack inside the wall. I am finding that I now have more equipment than I have room. I have an old rack at the office that I am thinking of bringing home and using that to install the equipment. Leaving just a opening for the projector. This will allow me to place some acoustical treatment on the back wall, the treatment will also (or can) cover the opening of the in wall rack.

Not sure yet if I want to move the equipment to the outside of the room. If I do I will have to extend my cabling (Speakers, Sub cable, Projector) but If I move it to just outside of the room I will only have to extend about 8-10 feet.

I need to get rid of that couch that is in there against the wall, it serves no purpose and is just in my way when I want to use the equipment LOL.


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## salvasol

carls64 said:


> Not sure yet if I want to move the equipment to the outside of the room. If I do I will have to extend my cabling (Speakers, Sub cable, Projector) but If I move it to just outside of the room I will only have to extend about 8-10 feet.


Why don't you leave the equipment that you need access in the rack (ie: DVD player, BR) then place the others (amps, AVR, etc. inside the room ...I'm sure you just use the remote to control them, RIght???, you need access to DVD to drop the disc, so that can stay on the shelf :huh:

By the way??? ...Where do you have all your DVD's??? ...I don' see it in the pictures??? :yes:


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## akakillroy

All the Blu-Ray and DVD's are up stairs in a closet, my plans are to move them all to a CD case to minimize space. I use a catalog program to keep track of what I have and where they are at.


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## Space

carls64 said:


> I use a catalog program to keep track of what I have and where they are at.


I developed a speadsheet to do this, but it is somewhat clunky and a bit linear:0 What brand do you use?


Brien


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## akakillroy

Space said:


> I developed a speadsheet to do this, but it is somewhat clunky and a bit linear:0 What brand do you use?
> 
> 
> Brien


I am using Delicious Library 2 for the Mac


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## akakillroy

Well I finaly was able to finish up the rear surround speakers, I now have the eD bookshelf speakers in place. I also ahve cleaned up the wiring in the rack/equipment room (pictures to follow). I think I am not pretty much done (at least if I know what's good for me that is) so now is the time to start watching movies! OH! I have to get the Logitech Harmony 890 remote set up and working, so I suppose that is one more then yet to do. Anyhow here are the rear surround photos. I had to add on the the wall on the right rear wall our the speakers would be way to close together. As it is they are not within Dolby or DTS specs of 30 degrees but I don;t think I am going to have that much 7.1 surround that I will need to worry too much about it, probably put more effort into that than I needed :dontknow:
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## akakillroy

Just realized I never posted the final view of the acoustical treatments on the side walls. I took bpape's suggestion and placed them 2' from the floor and spaced them the best way I could to cover the walls. I now need to take some measurements and setup the BFD.
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## bpape

Nicely done. Very clean looking.

Take some time and enjoy the fruits of your labor. Put on a couple torture movies

Bryan


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## Prof.

Now that's looking good!!..:T


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## thewire

Looks really nice. The panels and the new screen wall turned out great. :T


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## speedklz

That is sexy... likes boots on a rooster... I love the color scheme, the whole thing looks really nice.


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## akakillroy

Greetings all, it has been a while since I made any updates. I did do something that I had wanted to do for a while but could not decide the best way to do it. As it is hard to decide on a screen size/aspect I went with a 16:9 screen. However a lot of the content I watch is widescreen aspect (movies anyhow). I looked into many different screen masking solutions and I did not want to invest a great deal on this nor did I want to rebuild my screen wall to accommodate it. Replacing the screen was not an option as that would involve rebuilding the screen wall fabric frames, and again that was not an option.

I found several people who made screen masking inserts for the 16:9 fixed frame screens and felt that was the obvious solution, but could not decide on what material to use. I am in that mood right now where if it is going to take me more than a couple hours effort I was not going to tackle it, call me lazy! I have been simply enjoying my HT now and feel that most of the hard work is done.

My solution was simple, I picked up a piece of 1/2" laminated foam board insulation from my local Home Depot (had to cut in lengthwise into two 2x8' lengths to get them in the car, I then proceeded to make 3 x 7 1/4" strips. from there I had to add about 9" to each 8' length to account for the screen width. I used Gorilla Glue to glue the sections together. That stuff is great fro foam board it only takes about 30 to dry!

Next I purchased some Royalty 3 black velvet from Joann's (using a 40% off coupon) I should have only got 4 years, I ended up with 5 and now I have way to much left over LOL. I then wrapped the foam board length in the velvet securing it with spray adhesive and packing tape. I made the two masks so the would friction fit in the screen. The fit perfectly, although for some reason the top of my screen seems to "sag" a but and on full screen content you can see through the leading edge of the screen through a small gap between the frame and the mask, no big deal, can't see it while you are seated.

I heard people say that the resulting "masks" are amazing and make the picture POP for widescreen content, and I really never gave it much warrant but I have to say I was amazed!

Here are a couple pictures of the completed "mini" project.

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## akakillroy

OH! also I added a couple more seats, I have 10 seats now, so far never filled them all LOL.

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## bpape

Nice job Carl!

Bryan


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## akakillroy

Thanks, Bryan!

I also decided to re-paint the ceiling directly in front of the screen, I see this morning that I missed a couple spots I will have to touch up. I used the Promar 400 Ultra Flat black and I have to say it makes a BIG difference there is very little reflection on the ceiling now from the screen.

A had a friend over and we screened Gran Torino and the new Star Trek flick. Both movies were awesome! The screen was clear and bright and the new masking system just made it that much more enjoyable. I wish I had done that months ago!

Recently I purcahsed a new media streamer, BriteView CinemaTube, and it has the ability to move and resize the subtitles, so I moved them up and shrunk the size now they show in the right area with the screen masked and they are not to large, perfect set up now for widescreen display.

Now to consider a anamorphic lens LOL


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## Oggie

WOW. that is incredible. I don't really want to look through your 14 pages of thread, but where did you purchase those seats from and how much? Everywhere I look the prices are outrageous. I might just have to buy regular furniture.


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## akakillroy

Time to continue the project, I am going to convert the work area into a lobby / waiting room for pre-show activities/visiting, you know the whole wine and cheese thing? Popcorn machine, refreshments are etc.. Move the posters from the theater room itself into this area. Now just need color/combination motivation the mudding and taping begins this weekend so I need to decide soon on colors.


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## akakillroy

With the lobby complete I can move on to a couple other theater room projects now. Now that I removed all the posters from the theater I have room to do some more acoustical treatments. I will carry out the treatment on the side walls and 4 - 2x4 foot 1" panels on the ceiling in front of the screen.

Here is the videos I did for the frame construction, details are within the videos.

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
Part 8


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## akakillroy

Here is a 2 part video tour of the newly added lobby and the theater:

Part 1

Part 2


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## akakillroy

Since I am going to be adding more acoustical panels, and I wanted to add some to the back wall the equipment rack was no longer in a "good" spot. So since I acquired a very nice server rack I decided to move all the equipment with the exception of the projector to the new rack.

Here are a few photos of the rack, moving it into location and the placement of the new panels. As you can see the rear panels are/will be mounted horizontal so to cover up most of the old equipment rack location. 

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## akakillroy

Was able to obtain another pair of Emotiva ERD-1's from another forum member (like new!) so I will be installing them tomorrow.

I was also reading the September issue of Sound+Vision Magazine and there was a whole section on iPhone/iPod/iPad remote controls. I ran across the ThinkFlood RedEye, ( what a name ) WiFi enabled remote device. After reading I decided to order one. Received it today and at first glance it looks like it might just replace my Logitech Harmony 890 pro.

It looks to be good for the living room where all your devices are in direct shot of the IR blasters ini the base but you might be out of luck in a dedicated theater environment where your devices are in multiple locations, like mine.

So I promptly took it apart and discovered that there were 6 separate IR LED's inside. I had an old IR extender that I re-appropriated and added a pigtail wire for 3 of the IR LEDs in the RedEye and now I have the ability to add up to 6 external IR extenders. Now I have to get the device program.

In case you are wondering, the RedEye looks like a iPod/iPhone dock, but it contains a small computer with built in WiFi where you can connect your portable I-something device over your WiFi network and control all your equipment. All programing is done through your iPod Touch/iPhone/or iPad through a App provided free from ThinkFlood.

Here is a video of the device and what I did.

http://youtu.be/cHmS9H1e5Gs

Once I have it all connected and program I will give it a review. If it works as I hope it will be a good replacement for my Harmony 890 which currently has a dead battery and I am waiting for a replacement. The battery swelled up and even busted the battery door on the back!


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## bpape

Keep us in the loop in the Red Eye. I'm considering it to use with the iPad in my upstairs system. Would be nice to have that for a remote for everything including the ability to scan music by album/artist/etc. from the Squeezebox.

Bryan


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## akakillroy

Will do Bryan. My Harmony 890 was a bear to program, and from what I can tell the RedEye is not going to be the exception, although I think you can program it from a web browser as the device has a built in browser app that you can use on the desktop.

Tonight I was able to complete the remaining acoustical panels. I now have 4 x1" panels on the ceiling in front of the screen to help with first reflections on the ceiling. 15 x2" panels on the walls, including one on the door.

I didn't spend a lot of time hanging them with the exception of the ones on the ceiling, where I used metal straps on the corners of the panels and plastic drywall anchors with a screw and a 1" fender washer in the ceiling. Then I had a bunch of neodium magnets from that I had from a bunch of hard drives I tore apart some time ago. The magnets were powerful enough to hold the panels to the ceiling.

I used the same technique to mount the wall panel to the door.

I also started work on the umbilical to the A/V rack composed of 7 new speaker patch cables, a stereo phone cable for the subs, poser and HDMI for the projector, and the IR repeater for the projector. I completed the speaker patch cables, using 14G plenum (white) speaker cable and banana plugs that I purchase from mono price. I never liked the screw down banana plugs so I soldered each and every plug (28 total).

I now need to work on taking down my rear channel speakers and replace them with my new pair of ERD-1's and complete the wiring to the rack so I can get everything losers back up.

Not sure if I mentioned this before but when I completed the screen wall there was a 3 1/2" gap between the top of the screen and the ceiling that I never made a panel for, while I was making the ceiling panels I made a new filler panel for that gap, so now the screen was is complete. Over a year later LOL.

Something else I discovered that I am surprised that it didn't bite be in the butt before now, and that was when replaced the outlet fort the rack with a 20 amp one, I always use my outlet tester for proper wiring and ground and I found that I had an open ground on that circuit.

It drove me crazy for a couple days and I checked all the outlets and only the two designated for the equipment room. I finally did what needed to be done, I pulled the screen wall panel out on the side the breaker box was, pulled out my removable bass trap section covering the breaker box and then pulled the breaker panel cover, what a job LOL. Following the circuit to those outlets low and behold there it was the ground was clearly not connected! So hard telling how long it had been that way. I re-connected and tested the outlets and FIXED!! That will make it safer for sure LOL

Well that is enough for one day, back to work after church tomorrow!


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## akakillroy

Several updates!

Replaced my Panasonic 720P with a new Epson 8350 1080P, had to make a new mount but its in and looks great. Photos soon.

Also replaced my rear surrounds with another pair of Emotiva ERD-1's and added some more acoustical treatments.

I experimented with a RedEye remote for my iPhone and iPad but could never get it working they way I liked, so I went back to my Harmony 890+

Also I have an Emotiva UMC-1 processor, but I am still tweaking it. All in all they are some very good upgrades.

Having company over this weekend for a movie night so hopefully it goes well!


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## bpape

Hmmm. Bummer. Was hoping to try the Red-Eye myself. What sorts of problems were you having?

Bryan


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## akakillroy

Well to begin with the first firmware they sent down (they send these down across the iPone/iPod/iPad App) bricked the device and I had to order a replacement, they sent another out and didn't ask for the other one back. Since I was using it in my rack I had to mod it to begin with to add some external emitters, so that in itself was a pain the second time around.

Programing it is also a nuisance as you do all the configuration from the IOS device, at this time you can't program it from the web interface.

If you have a Apple Airport/Express/Extreme then getting it to connect to your wireless LAN is problematic as well but possible. You have to assign a reserved IP for the MAC address of the device in the Airport before it will connect, not a deal breaker but unless you figure it out on your own or closely read their documentation then you will be frustrated real fast.

Their device database is not real intuitive. You may find the manufacturer of the device relatively easily and perhaps the device itself (make and model) but then they present you with a list of code groups that are given numerical designations that you just have to "try" each set until you find one that works. BUT WAIT, you may find a code set that works but perhaps is not complete as many manufacturers use similar codes for different devices so again frustration.

Once you have it programed though it seems to work well, you need to be connected to either your local wireless LAN or the devices (RedEye) network to communicate with it, and if you are on the edge of your own WiFi like I was I had to buy an additional Airport Express and connect it in the Theater Room so I would have a good signal.

Once you have it program I recommend that you backup the device using the built in WEB access tool, if you don;t and you brick the device with an update (of I found out that if the device looses power a number of consecutive time lets say to a brown out our unplugging and plugging in too quickly) then you have to go through the entire process again!

This was the point I decided to go back to using my Harmony 890+ All the programing is kept on Logitech's server across the web, so it is always there! I had my existing equipment and NEW equipment programed back to current on the 890+ is minuets and I was flying again.

OH one last thing, I have an XTreamer Pro, and although the RedEye had codes for it, doubled almost every time, when I programed the Harmony I had the same issue BUT the Harmony software has a trouble shooting section and asked you the issue then provided a "sensitivity" setting that eliminated this issue on the device.

Since the Harmony had a wireless "extender" (not Wifi) and it had outputs for external IR emitters (and includes them), although a but more pricey it works much better, and with physical buttons it just makes better sense to use it than the IOS device. And keep in mind I am a dedicated Apple user and I love my IOS devices and if they could fix may of these functionality and reliability/compatibility issues I would not hesitate to use it again. As it is it sits in the equipment rack disconnected and powered down.

Sorry ThinkFlood.

Hope this helps Bryan


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## akakillroy

Bryan, what happend to the "edit" feature on the topics, I was going to update my thread and can't seem to locate the edit open :hissyfit:


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## bpape

Not sure Carl. I can see the edit buttons. I know there is a time limit but you've certainly not gone past it.

Bryan


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## mechman

carls64 said:


> Bryan, what happend to the "edit" feature on the topics, I was going to update my thread and can't seem to locate the edit open :hissyfit:


There is a certain amount of time that you have to edit a post. I can't recall what it is off the top of my head. If you want you can pm whatever you want updated to a Bryan or myself and we can update it for you.


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## akakillroy

Greetings, sorry to resurrect this OLD thread. I am alive and well, still enjoying my theater. Not much has changed. Just beginning the planning stages of an upgrade.

New screen, new projector new sound system. The room itself still serves the purpose, just want to upgrade the important stuff. We still have new years eve movie night and all 10 seats are usually filled ;-)

Hope to see more of all of you soon. I may with the forum moderators blessing I will start a new thread, Slaughter House Cinemas Take II soon ;-)

Carl


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## akakillroy

Link to the original build video:


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