# Good advice for buying a projection screen



## Lion Blue11 (5 mo ago)

My new house is still under construction and I have set aside a room to set up my home theater

Since I'm new to home audio and video, I need some advice from experienced friends

I plan to buy Hisense's laser ultra-short-throw projector and vivostorm's UST ALR electric floor-raising screen

I want a 100+ inch screen to watch movies and this year's football world cup, I think it must look cool😁

I am very interested in the suppression screen of vividstorn, hope you can give me some advice?


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## Da Wiz (May 8, 2019)

Combine the cost of the projector and screen. Purchase the best 85-inch TV you can find. Save the rest of the money. Movie theaters will not be using projectors in 10 years because the UHD/4K TVs we have today are better than ANY PROJECTION SYSTEM IN THE WORLD. Theaters know that they are at a disadvantage in image quality compared to new TVs. Home video displays can display more colors and more dynamic range (difference between black and white) than ANY PROJECTION SYTEM IN THE WORLD. The best movie theaters in the world have already started replacing projection systems in their flagship theaters with LED video walls that can do even more than TVs sold for home use. Projection cannot produce the peak whites required for large color gamuts and HDR. Projection cannot produce black that is 100% black. The lens from a $60,000+ projector adds 20 times more distortion in images compared to direct-view video displays that have no lens. The lens from a $1000 projector adds about 2000 times more distortion in images than a comparably priced direct view TV.

I'm not just some crank with a weird point of view. I'm a retired imaging systems engineer. I worked on analog and digital video systems, moving and still images, only in professional markets (like theaters and studios and service providers for studios, I worked on the scanner used in the first restoration of Snow White, for example). I have worked on analog and digital systems for commercial theaters, 2-D systems and 3-D systems. And I see and use the newest consumer video products every month. Today, a $3000 85-inch diagonal TV will outperform ANY projector, even those in the rarified $60,000+ price range. The advantages a $3000 85-inch TV has over a $3000 projection setup (projector and screen cost total) aren't just big, they are GIGANTIC. You need to see well done projection of a good UHD/4K movie with a 120-inch projection screen and a projector that costs $25,000 or more. And right next to that should be a $3000 85-inch diagonal TV, properly setup showing the same UHD/4K movie from a 4K UHD disc (to eliminate any variables). The movie should include dark/night/outer-space scenes, bright colorful scenes, and scenes shot by firelight or other dim local lighting so you can see what both systems do with a wide range of types of shots. This sort of experience will prove the truth I have presented here.

Projector people hate hearing this--but you can't argue with what is happening right now. TVs have LEAPT ahead of projection in every possible way except image size. Today, Projection cannot come close to the quality of images TVs can produce. In 10 years, the gap will even be larger, but by then, TV-walls and LED theatrical screens will be the norm and Projection will be going the way of monophonic sound. People think that SOMEHOW, a huge image will make you forget all the limitations of projection. It won't. I have a $25,000 laser-phosphor projector with a 10-foot-wide 2.35:1 screen with masking that covers unused areas of the screen with black velvet shades (that act like screen curtains in movie theaters). It gets used perhaps 1 time per month. The rest of the time, it's a TV from 65-inches to 85-inches. I could use the projector 100% of the time, but it is rarely used because the images are not impressive in spite of that projector being able to reach 70 fL for 100% white. The 85-inch TV will produce up to 875 fL for peak white. You never see a picture that bright because it would be uncomfortably bright. But you do need that much light to get the best UHD/4K Blu-ray discs to look as good as possible. The projector can't do ANY of the things the TV can do with light that is as bright as 81 fL through 875 fL. Plus the projection lens also visibly degrades the images compared to no lens (TVs have no lenses). It is NOT screen size that makes video exciting, it is VIEWING ANGLE. A 50-degree viewing angle produces a great visual experience. With a 10-foot wide screen, you can sit 11 feet away and achieve a 50 degree viewing angle. Change to an 85-inch diagonal TV and you can achieve the same 50 degree viewing angle by sitting 7 feet from the TV screen. Setup properly, your audio system will sound better 7 feet from your system than it will if the speakers are 11 feet. At 7-feet, directly radiated sound from the speakers will be the dominant sound you hear at your seat and reflected sound energy will be less. With the speakers 11 feet from the main seat, reflected room sound will dominate what you hear making the sound much less distinct than the directly radiated sound.


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## Lion Blue11 (5 mo ago)

Da Wiz said:


> Combine the cost of the projector and screen. Purchase the best 85-inch TV you can find. Save the rest of the money. Movie theaters will not be using projectors in 10 years because the UHD/4K TVs we have today are better than ANY PROJECTION SYSTEM IN THE WORLD. Theaters know that they are at a disadvantage in image quality compared to new TVs. Home video displays can display more colors and more dynamic range (difference between black and white) than ANY PROJECTION SYTEM IN THE WORLD. The best movie theaters in the world have already started replacing projection systems in their flagship theaters with LED video walls that can do even more than TVs sold for home use. Projection cannot produce the peak whites required for large color gamuts and HDR. Projection cannot produce black that is 100% black. The lens from a $60,000+ projector adds 20 times more distortion in images compared to direct-view video displays that have no lens. The lens from a $1000 projector adds about 2000 times more distortion in images than a comparably priced direct view TV.
> 
> I'm not just some crank with a weird point of view. I'm a retired imaging systems engineer. I worked on analog and digital video systems, moving and still images, only in professional markets (like theaters and studios and service providers for studios, I worked on the scanner used in the first restoration of Snow White, for example). I have worked on analog and digital systems for commercial theaters, 2-D systems and 3-D systems. And I see and use the newest consumer video products every month. Today, a $3000 85-inch diagonal TV will outperform ANY projector, even those in the rarified $60,000+ price range. The advantages a $3000 85-inch TV has over a $3000 projection setup (projector and screen cost total) aren't just big, they are GIGANTIC. You need to see well done projection of a good UHD/4K movie with a 120-inch projection screen and a projector that costs $25,000 or more. And right next to that should be a $3000 85-inch diagonal TV, properly setup showing the same UHD/4K movie from a 4K UHD disc (to eliminate any variables). The movie should include dark/night/outer-space scenes, bright colorful scenes, and scenes shot by firelight or other dim local lighting so you can see what both systems do with a wide range of types of shots. This sort of experience will prove the truth I have presented here.
> 
> Projector people hate hearing this--but you can't argue with what is happening right now. TVs have LEAPT ahead of projection in every possible way except image size. Today, Projection cannot come close to the quality of images TVs can produce. In 10 years, the gap will even be larger, but by then, TV-walls and LED theatrical screens will be the norm and Projection will be going the way of monophonic sound. People think that SOMEHOW, a huge image will make you forget all the limitations of projection. It won't. I have a $25,000 laser-phosphor projector with a 10-foot-wide 2.35:1 screen with masking that covers unused areas of the screen with black velvet shades (that act like screen curtains in movie theaters). It gets used perhaps 1 time per month. The rest of the time, it's a TV from 65-inches to 85-inches. I could use the projector 100% of the time, but it is rarely used because the images are not impressive in spite of that projector being able to reach 70 fL for 100% white. The 85-inch TV will produce up to 875 fL for peak white. You never see a picture that bright because it would be uncomfortably bright. But you do need that much light to get the best UHD/4K Blu-ray discs to look as good as possible. The projector can't do ANY of the things the TV can do with light that is as bright as 81 fL through 875 fL. Plus the projection lens also visibly degrades the images compared to no lens (TVs have no lenses). It is NOT screen size that makes video exciting, it is VIEWING ANGLE. A 50-degree viewing angle produces a great visual experience. With a 10-foot wide screen, you can sit 11 feet away and achieve a 50 degree viewing angle. Change to an 85-inch diagonal TV and you can achieve the same 50 degree viewing angle by sitting 7 feet from the TV screen. Setup properly, your audio system will sound better 7 feet from your system than it will if the speakers are 11 feet. At 7-feet, directly radiated sound from the speakers will be the dominant sound you hear at your seat and reflected sound energy will be less. With the speakers 11 feet from the main seat, reflected room sound will dominate what you hear making the sound much less distinct than the directly radiated sound.


Hi friend,You look very professional and experienced. I think a lot of what you said is very correct. I know that the projected pictures and effects are not as good as TVs, but TVs and projections have their own advantages. Maybe I just pursue the viewing experience of a larger screen, and I want to experience the joy of using the projector. I just like it.

I know what you said about Baixue, then you have very rich experience in home theater, then what do you think of the VIVIDSTORM brand of projection screen, I am planning to buy it, because I have watched a lot of videos about it, I I feel that both the appearance size and the imaging effect are more in line with my requirements


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## Da Wiz (May 8, 2019)

Lion Blue11 said:


> Hi friend,You look very professional and experienced. I think a lot of what you said is very correct. I know that the projected pictures and effects are not as good as TVs, but TVs and projections have their own advantages. Maybe I just pursue the viewing experience of a larger screen, and I want to experience the joy of using the projector. I just like it.
> 
> I know what you said about Baixue, then you have very rich experience in home theater, then what do you think of the VIVIDSTORM brand of projection screen, I am planning to buy it, because I have watched a lot of videos about it, I I feel that both the appearance size and the imaging effect are more in line with my requirements


I've never heard of Vividstorm. But there are a lot of products... projectors and screens coming from Asia with brand names that are new. They make TERRIBLE claims for how good the projectors are (these projectors usually sell for less than $1000) and there are also Asian projection screens appearing with lots of claims about how much better they are than expensive screens... it is all baloney. These companies care nothing for industry standards, they just want to sell you poor quality ****. For example: One of these "no name" companies sells a projector they claim has 3600 lumens. The actual measured performance of the projector is 600 lumens. These companies know you will not own a colorimeter or spectrophotometer to measure the performance, so owners have no way of knowing they were cheated. Epson sued one of those companies and won, forcing them to use accurate, industry standard measurements. But new brand names with the same terrible projector inside keep appearing to sell with specifications that are lies. If that company has trouble with Epson or some other projector manufacturer, they just change the name of the company and keep cheating customers.

I trust projection screens from Stewart Filmscreen, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, Severtson, Elite, some Draper, some Da-Lite; dnp Denmark; Screen Research; Seymour AV. Screens from other companies should be considered "unknowns" until they are used and measured by a reviewer with some image analysis skills.

Here are the primary image quality determiners and the scores I would assign to each home display technology based on visual observations AND MEASUREMENTS. LCD/LED TV refers to "better" models but not necessarily top of the line. My scores for a $1000 projector would be half of the scores for the $3000 projector. All references to LCD/LED TVs are based on FALD TVs--Full Array backlight with 100 or more Local Dimming zones. I do not recommend ultra-thin edge-lit LCD/LED TV models.:
*Quality of BLACK* -* OLED TV 100%*; LCD/LED TV - 90%; $3000 projector 10%; $60,000 projector-55%
*Peak White Level *- OLED-80%; *LCD/LED-100%*; $3000 projector-10%; $60,000 projector-25%
*Color Gamut (range of colors) *-* OLED-100%*; *LCD/LED TV*-90%-*100%*; $3000 projector-60%; $60,000 projector-75%
*Performance in brightly lit room*- OLED-85%; *LCD/LED TV-100%*; $3k proj-7% with ambient light rejecting screen; $60,000 proj-12% with ambient light rejecting screen (ambient light rejecting screens HELP-A LITTLE, but they aren't nearly as good as they may sound in marketing information)
*Performance in a dark room (no light except for video images)*-* OLED-100%*; LCD/LED-85%; $3K proj-25%; $60k proj-45%.


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## Lion Blue11 (5 mo ago)

Da Wiz said:


> I've never heard of Vividstorm. But there are a lot of products... projectors and screens coming from Asia with brand names that are new. They make TERRIBLE claims for how good the projectors are (these projectors usually sell for less than $1000) and there are also Asian projection screens appearing with lots of claims about how much better they are than expensive screens... it is all baloney. These companies care nothing for industry standards, they just want to sell you poor quality ****. For example: One of these "no name" companies sells a projector they claim has 3600 lumens. The actual measured performance of the projector is 600 lumens. These companies know you will not own a colorimeter or spectrophotometer to measure the performance, so owners have no way of knowing they were cheated. Epson sued one of those companies and won, forcing them to use accurate, industry standard measurements. But new brand names with the same terrible projector inside keep appearing to sell with specifications that are lies. If that company has trouble with Epson or some other projector manufacturer, they just change the name of the company and keep cheating customers.
> 
> I trust projection screens from Stewart Filmscreen, Screen Innovations, Screen Excellence, Severtson, Elite, some Draper, some Da-Lite; dnp Denmark; Screen Research; Seymour AV. Screens from other companies should be considered "unknowns" until they are used and measured by a reviewer with some image analysis skills.
> 
> ...


Yes, my friend, I am also very afraid to buy a projector with false lumen, so I decided to buy the projector on the official website of Hisense and the screen on the official website of vivostorm. I see that Hisense and vivostorm have cooperated, so I want to try it. Although this brand is not as famous as Elite, I have seen figures and evaluations about vivostorm on many social platforms. It looks good, maybe they need to A growing time, you can look at their official website :https://vividstormscreen.com/,and evaluate the advice you believe in


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## Da Wiz (May 8, 2019)

I will re-iterate, that ambient light rejecting projection screens are probably not what you think they are. They are FAR from 100% effective. You should not commit a lot of money to this until you have seen it in demonstration in an environment that is something similar to the room you will use in your home. When you read about ambient light rejecting screens like the ones for short-throw laser projectors, you never get the complete picture of how much the image is degraded with light in the room. And there is still a LOT of image degradation from ambient light because not enough of it can be "rejected" by ALR screens. With short throw projectors and screens appropriate for them, nobody ever tells you that you need to make all surfaces lower than the projection screen flat black--the tabletop the short-throw projector sits on needs to be anti-reflective black---like black velvet so light cannot bounce off of surfaces lower than the screen to contaminate images. You will need black carpet about 6-8 feet in front of the screen, about 2-3 feet to the sides of the screen, and if the screen is not wall mounted, a few feet behind the screen will also need to be flat black. If the screen is wall mounted, light reflecting from the wall will contaminate the images, so you need to paint the wall flat black for several feet around the screen so light reflecting from the wall can't contaminate the images either. AT BEST, ALR screens for short throw projectors reject perhaps 25% of ambient light. That leaves plenty of light to degrade images. And because short-throw laser projectors have special ALR screens with "steeper" angles to let in the laser light, but block direct ambient light (sort of). But any light reflecting off of surfaces below the projection screen will bounce onto the screen from the same sort of angle as the laser light from the projector and won't be "rejected". So any sort of light color on the floor or walls near the screen will raise light contamination of short-throw laser-projector images causing loss of contrast and poor black levels. A white ceiling will reflect light onto the screen of a short-throw setup at the best possible angle for ambient light rejection, but even with that, the overhead light reflected down on the ALR screen will still drop contrast and black level--not as much as light from the sides or below, but it's still not ideal for projection, so making the ceiling flat black for several feet to the sides of the screen and 8 feet or so in front of the screen will improve image quality. But none of these measures will make the images look as good as they look in the room with no lights on--complete darkness.


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## nathan_h (Feb 19, 2009)

Lion Blue11 said:


> My new house is still under construction and I have set aside a room to set up my home theater
> 
> Since I'm new to home audio and video, I need some advice from experienced friends
> 
> ...


You have received some solid reasons not to get a 100” screen and a ust projector.

But maybe that is not the advice you seek?

Are you looking for the best value in a quality projector and screen?

Here is the best overview I have seen of the current models: The Ultra Short Throw Projector Shootout - 2022

Would I recommend a ust projector for a dedicated movie room with black walls and no lights? No. A traditional front projector will produce higher quality images for a lower price.

But if you plan to do casual viewing with lights on then the ust may be a better fit.

But really in the size you speak of a flat panel makes more sense. I don’t think a projector makes sense until you get to at least 120” and are ready to make the room as dark as a movie theater.


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## the kid (Nov 15, 2013)

I get it. You are excited to have a 'big' screen. Me too. Da Wiz has lots of tech info / advice. I agree with his experience and data and comparisons between technologies. Having said that...

I own a 106" screen and epson projector. I wanted 'big'. I have been able to tweak settings enough to get a really enjoyable realistic-looking quality picture. Will not reach the heights of technical specs that Da Wiz reports, but still very enjoyable to my eyes and others who visit with me to watch movies.

Were someone to make a good quality 100"+ tv within reach of what I could pay, I would certainly get one vs. a projector. But they do not. So, a lot of nights I sit back and enjoy my 106" screen along with 7.2 surround sound. 

Many versions of tv's + surround sound are promoted as the 'home theater' experience. Many people have a 55" - 65 or 70" tv, and then very LOUD surround sound of some tiype. In many cases the sound far outways the screen. In MY move theater going experience, not only is there surround sound, but a BIG screen to match.

It is an on-going discussion of which is better, tv or projector. It is mostly an emotional discussion because on paper, a tv will beat out a projector spec-wise. Frankly, I believe that in the end, the decision should be based on what will make you the happiest each time you watch it. For me, I wanted what I was experiencing when I sat in a theater, so the choice was big screen and projector. Others may really want that higher level of specs and details.

Anway, it seems you may have already ordered the parts. Let us know what you think of them!


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## Lion Blue11 (5 mo ago)

the kid said:


> I get it. You are excited to have a 'big' screen. Me too. Da Wiz has lots of tech info / advice. I agree with his experience and data and comparisons between technologies. Having said that...
> 
> I own a 106" screen and epson projector. I wanted 'big'. I have been able to tweak settings enough to get a really enjoyable realistic-looking quality picture. Will not reach the heights of technical specs that Da Wiz reports, but still very enjoyable to my eyes and others who visit with me to watch movies.
> 
> ...


Friend, you said exactly what I thought! ! ! 👍I also want to pursue a large-screen viewing experience. Although I know that the effect of LED TV is definitely much better than the projection screen, but in terms of the size of the screen, the effect of sound, and the novel way of watching movies, I am more Tends to the form of projector + projection screen. Compared with the traditional TV that needs to be fixed on the wall, I prefer a portable, mobile and hidden screen, and many of these electric projection screens can do it, whether it is mounted on the ceiling or in a TV cabinet, it is not applicable. It's cool to use hidden! ! ! I have been thinking about it for a long time, but I still want to choose the electric screen of vivostorm, because I often see their reviews on tiktok and youtube, and I think it is worth trying


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## Lion Blue11 (5 mo ago)

nathan_h said:


> You have received some solid reasons not to get a 100” screen and a ust projector.
> 
> But maybe that is not the advice you seek?
> 
> ...


Thank you so much,The article you recommend is very professional and very helpful to me. Yes, I've noticed, despite a lot of deprecated voices, but willing to try


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