# Trio 12 V2 Build thread



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Hi all,

After building my frist enclosure for my Trio 12 and my bash 500 plate amp I had some bottom-out issue. I ordered some cheap passive crossover that should do the trick for now but they aren't going to solve the trouble since I will lose some of the low extention of my subwoofer. My mistake was that I considered that my amp had a 4th order lowpass/subsonic filter when in fact it had a 2nd order. This caused the subwoofer to bottom out with much less than 500 watt between 12 and 16hz and since the bash 500 has more than enough juice for the Trio 12 I guess that everytime there is some big bass in a movie the subwoofer wanted to bottom-out.

To tell you how bad this it I actually needed to set the distance of my subwoofer in my receiver to 2ft away of the listening position, turn down the bass volume of 6db and I have the gain on the amp about 1/8 of a turn up to the minimum. I guess I actually have around 80-90db output from the subwoofer but at least it doesn't bottom out but it's not loud at all.

----------------​
So here the build start. After modelling a little bit in WinISD and searching a little bit for what the bash500 can pull out I came with this build.

Trio 12 subwoofer
Bash 500watt amp, HPF set to 18,7hz with 1db gain at 20-24hz
5,5 ft³ enclosure with a 18hz tuning
Port will be 2''x12'' and 32,10'' deep (210hz port tuning wich should be fine)
Max port velocity should be 19,5m/s

I've not yet draw the enclosure yet but I know how I will build it and know how I will make the bracing.

Box dimension will be 22 x 22 x 30 with a good amount of bracing.

----------------​
The last enclosure I build was made out of MDF, It came out not to bad but I had to predrill all the hole and also I predrilled the hole for all the head wich was a real pain (I used screw and glue because I didn't had tons of clamp to use only glue). I'm planning to go the same route but I would probably use plywood instead. I know that Baltic brish 13ply is also recommended but is this the only plywood that will work? Can I got with maple of oak plywood in 7 or 9 ply?

Also many of you use rockwool to stuff the inside wall of the enclose. What are the benifit of doing this and is it really worth is. Is rockwool the same think as you use to isolate the wall of house?


----------



## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

Look forward to watching this build come together. Personally, I wouldnt use rockwool, I use polyester fibre fill instead. Rockwool can be used to dampen resonances within the cabinet and prevent mechanical noise from escaping from the ports, but fibrefill will help with this anyway without impacting on internal cabinet volume the same.

Some people like to use it and some dont. Best thing to do it take a look in our completed builds database and decide which you think is best for you. Personally, I would use fibre fill every time.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

> After building my frist enclosure for my Trio 12 and my bash 500 plate amp I had some bottom-out issue.



Just curious, what was the cabinet volume and tuning frequency? What HPF were you using on the Bash 500?

​


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Mike P. said:


> Just curious, what was the cabinet volume and tuning frequency? What HPF were you using on the Bash 500?
> 
> ​


4,5 Ft³ tuned to 20hz with a 2nd order 18,7hz HPF with 1db boost at 20-24hz. Putting these information in WinISD showed me that my subwoofer would bottom out at 12-16hz rougly. (When I designed the box in winISD I took into account that the HPF was 4th order).

You can look if I'm wrong because if I'm wrong then there is something else that is not working because this subwoofer is no where close to what I would call loud. My logitech Z-5500 subwoofer wich was a 10'' and 188 watt RMS was much louder than this. It didn't sounded as good but it was way more louder and wasn't bottoming as much.

in fact I'm not much impressed with the Trio. I hope I can make it work correctly.

I'm also thinking of keeping the same amp and buying a Mach 5 IXL 18.2.2 or a SDX 15 MKII but for now I have the keep the trio because the largest box I can get to the listening bosition can be 22'' wide only.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Were you hearing a popping sound in the 12 to 16hz range?


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Yeah it was a king of popping/knocking sound that I've never heard before with my Z-5500 because I guess it had an HPF to prevent this.

Now I know I'm not even pushing my amp a little bit at all because it's really cool after playing movie or video game for a while. And I've never seen the clip light come on since I had it.

And when I first got the subwoofer I had the distance set correctly in the AV receiver and the bass at 0db instead of -6db and I began with the gain at Min on the plate amp then increased it to about half. When I had that setup the sub was sounding good and was enough loud. It was not the loudest subwoofer I had ever heard but what quite loud. Then after about 5-10 min of playing Gladiator where the catapult shoot in the movie(at beginning) I heard this awful noise. Since that my subwoofer is turned down to prevent bottoming.

I don't know but my Z5500 woofer was shaking about every thing in my room and this one deosn't shake anything at all and I read many people here stating that their sub shake the picture on the wall. Sure some of them have like 15 or 18'' woofer but I beleive that a 12'' woofer with 20mm of travel should be still a good beast to shake mostly anything.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Who modified the amp to have the HPF set at 18.7 hz?


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Mike P. said:


> Who modified the amp to have the HPF set at 18.7 hz?


Bob at CSS


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

From the info you have provided the sub isn't bottoming out, the amp is clipping. You're just driving it a bit to hard. Building a bigger box tuned to 18 hz won't change anything. A Z5500 has a HPF at 30 hz yet it shakes everything while the TRIO12 doesn't. Somethings wrong with this picture.


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

You think that it's the sound of the amp clipping? I didn't knew amp were making noise when clipping. Also the green/red light is apparently supposed the blink when it clip from what I've read. And it doesn't blink at all.

Also if I'm pushing the amp that hard it should at least come a little bit warm on the heat sink. But it's really cool actually. I have an infrared temp gun that I could use next time I use it but I'm sure it's no more than 20 °C. My last subwoofer that had plate amp used to come warm at the touch after playing a movie or listening music for a while.

Then this popping/knocking is quite loud. If it's the amp clipping then I will need something much bigger because there no way this sub is providing enough power for me :dontknow: I'm a kind of bass addict.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

The sub is at its limits with 500 watts in a 4.5 cu.ft box tuned to 20 hz. You need another sub or a bigger one. I'm wondering you have a placement issue as there is zero chance a Z5500 is outperforming a TRIO12 with 500 watts. Do you have access to a SPL meter?


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

I don't have SPL metter. My Z5500 woofer was in a dedicated hole in my TV desk. Now that one is mid wall placement since it's bigger and that the only place it fit or almost. I could try corner placement too.


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Moved the subwoofer to the corner. It don't seems to be louder.

I also made a video at it's new location to show you what the sound it. First part of the video it the current setting I'm at. Subwoofer distance is set at 2feet in the AV receiver because if I put more it feed to much power to the amp to tame the subwoofer down enough. I'm also set a -6db for the bass in the AV receiver. And gain is 1/4 turn from min on the plate amp gain.

On the 2nd part it's same setting but I increased the gain to about 1/2 - 5/8 of a turn. To a level that would be considering acceptable. When listening to that level the bass is fine but as soon as I hit low bass I hear the pop/knock sound that you will hear. The subwoofer did that sound quite fast because I chosen a song that had a really deep bass right at the beginning.

Sorry for the low video quality I had my camera set on low resolution accidentally. Hopefully we can still see the driver moving.










Just in case you want to listen to it to see what kind of bass I'm talking about.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

I can't tell from the video what the problem may be. It did seem pretty loud though.


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

I was at -20db on the receiver. On the second time the subwoofer was louder so I can record the sound it make. 

When watching movie the subwoofer could play at a decent level and produce the bass I want but when I get low hz bass the subwoofer want to bottom out so I turn in down alot to prevent this. It must certainly not be good for the driver and the sound it make is quite scaring and annoying. 

So actually the sub deos play enough loud for me and it still sound extremly good. But as soon as I get some pettry low bass it bottom out (I actually think it bottom out) so I've no choice tu put the subwoofer low for those passage where I get low bass and then the rest of the movie where I would get some 30-80hz bass for example I remain with very little bass where my Z5500 were pounding hard. Now I understand that tuning lower will cut some of the high hz bass but that not my problem here. I love the way my subwoofer sound, distortion free, clean and it hit low. But the main trouble is that I can use all the power available because of what is happening.

I should receive my Harrisson FMOD 20hz subsonic filter this week probably. I asked Harrison and they told me that since they are passive the inpedance of the subwoofer preout on the AV receiver will matter for the frequency they will cut, but they also said that since they are only 12db/octave it should be a big difference. With these I should be able to tell if it's my subwoofer that is bottoming because of these low frequenty.


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Just wanted to tell you that I received my Harrisson FMOD 20hz subsonic filter today. I tried them with the same song in the video at the same volume -20db on the receiver. I usually have to put the gain at 1/4 turn and I'm -6db in the receiver 2ft away. At 3/4 gain the subwoofer was doing a poping/knocking sound wich I didn't liked much. And at 1/4 turn I had pretty much no bass.

Well with the FMOD and the same level and 3/4 gain the subwoofer have not made any poping sound  The bass was much louder than before and the exact bass note that usually made the subwoofer pop was about as loud to my ears if not as loud. I've not tried it much yet and I've not set the level correctly but for a first impression they seems to work and they don't seems to cut to high.

I contacted Harrison to ask them around what impedance they were designed and they told me that they have been designed at a 22kΩ load at that if you stay over 10kΩ the cutoff frequency would vary enough so that I could tell a difference.

I've not found the Onkyo TX-SR608 subwoofer preout impedance in my manual but I think someone told me it was 23kΩ last time I asked about those.

I cant wait to run audyssey to set everything fine and finally listen a movie that will shake the room with explosion.

Anyone know if this RadioShack SPL meter is good? And what about the test tone CD that you can order with it. Is it worth it? I think that it's kind of a must have when you get in all those HT thing.


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

The SPL meter will be good as long as the model number of it matches one of the correction files found in the downloads section. The one you linked to looks like the Model 33-4050. There are also test tones there that you can download and burn to a CD.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/downloads-area/19-downloads-page.html


----------



## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Watched two movie last night with the new subsonic filter. I watched Avatar and Distric 9. Distric 9 has quite good bass passage and it was quite loud. I heard some odd sound comming from the wall of the house. I think it was the 2x4 that where shacking in the wall Well at some point I even backed it a little bit it was almost too loud.

I think that the Trio 12 pass the test now. This can deffinatly be a loud subwoofer :yikes:


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Good to hear you got it resolved. :T


----------

