# AVR for Klipsch RF 82 II, advice needed



## Klipscher (Mar 9, 2014)

Hi, fellow HTers....I'm getting a Klipsch RF 82 II 5.0 soon, now I'm in a dilemma choosing an AVR to drive the speakers.

I can get a Yamaha RX-A1030 at the same price as Pioneer LX-57. The pioneer is pack with features compare to the Yamaha. But reading reviews online i'm worry to pair the Pio with the Klipsch. I hate harsch and bright sounding system. But I dont really know if the Klipsch RF82 II paired with the LX-57 would be bright or just nice.

Anyone with input pls just chip in....


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

For the past 20 years or so I have used Denon AVRs to drive my Klipschorns and have been very pleased. I am now using an AVR-A100 which was the anniversary edition to the '4311 that was out a couple of years ago. My Denons have been extremely reliable and really sound nice with the K'horns.

Be sure to check out the factory refurb AVRs here:

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...iver/home-audio/home-theater-receivers/1.html

That will save a lot of money that can be used elsewhere in the HT. I have purchased a Denon 3312 and a 2312 from them for use in other rooms and they have looked and performed like new.

If your budget will allow, the '4520 is an outstanding AVR and is the latest flagship model and is the later model of mine:

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-flagship-home-theater-receiver-150wpc/1.html

Many folks, including me, like the Audyssey room correction software that is available on some brands. XT32 is the best "flavor" of Audyssey as it provides better subwoofer EQ than the lesser versions. Yamaha and Pioneer have their own brands of room correction that some folks like, some don't.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

+1 on the 4520. XT32 w/SubEQ HT is fast becoming the standard around these here parts.

I have recently upgraded to a Denon AVR4520CI, which is attached to our full on Klipsch speaker system and for movies, I have nothing but raves.

For music, it seems the horns vibrate and I need to dampen them. I am not aware of any horn vibration during movies but it's terribly prevalent when listening to classical music. At some time and point, I'm going pull all the horns and add damping material to the horn bodies.

FWIW, for many reasons, the 4520 replaced a properly functioning Marantz SR5007 with Anti-Mode 8033S II for additional room correction.

For movie viewing, I cannot be happier with the Klipsch/4520CI combination. What you will find, this combination, will reveal weak movie sound tracks. The good news, it's only takes a few quick moments to stop the movie, make necessary adjustments in the main speaker level menu and the problem will have been corrected for.

Not all movie sound tracks are mastered the same so the viewer/listener is hostage to the poor quality in mastering effort but because of the ease in which changes can be repeatably changed, it's easy to make up for the sound engineers shortcomings.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The OP is in Malaysa.

Klipscher
I have experience with Pioneer and Denon, I like both of them and have no reservations recommending either brand.
Since you are predispositioned to think the Pioneer sounds bright, there is a 90+% probability that it will and as such you should just choose something else.
While Yamaha may make a fine AVR I would recommend going with a Denon.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

I have used Denon and Integra with my klipsch speakers for home theater and have really enjoyed both avr's. Can you listen to the whole setup before purchase?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

chashint said:


> The OP is in Malaysa.


...

How should we amend our comments?

...


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Accessories 4 less or other USA sources probably not a good retail source.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

chashint said:


> Accessories 4 less or other USA sources probably not a good retail source.


Thanks as yes, I have no idea what it's like trying to get deals on home theater gear in Malaysia.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Klipsch are very easy to drive speakers. Mid to upper tear receivers would have no issues with driving them. I've heard a lot about class D amps like in the Denon 4520 and they are also very efficient but their has been many comments about them being a bit bright (an affect of the design) pairing that with an already bright speaker could be problematic my guess is that could be what is causing your speakers horns to vibrate BeeMan?
But back to the original question Denon, Onkyo pioneer all have pros and cons. Select the one with the features you want and you should have no issues.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

The good news, I'm not a big music guy and the vibration problem isn't noticeable during movie playback.

The bad news, unless we acquire a rather large, after taxes, winning lottery ticket, these are the speakers we'll be buried with.

...

In regard to an AVR to drive the Klipsch RF-82 II, a Denon AVR-X4000 would be a less expensive choice than a Denon AVR-4520CI. After having the 4520CI dialed in and having run several blu-rays through the system, I have no regrets with the system "BUT" the system does reveal differences in the quality of recorded material such as the wonderfully done sound track of "Flyboys" compared to the poor quality of "Olympus Has Fallen."

The combination also highlights differences in sound track filtering which limits the dynamics of a sound track in similar genre movies such as the heavily filtered movie exampled by "Black Hawk Down" vs that of unfiltered movie tracks like one would find in "Battle: L.A.," "Act of Valor" or "Pacific Rim."

(for verification purposes, each movie noted above was watched with sound meter in hand)

As you note, choices need to be made on the ease of driving a set of speakers and in the case of the Reference Series Klipsch speakers, these are easily driven speaker but even these speakers can suck the life out of amplifiers that can't handle two and four ohm demands as Klipsch speakers are "nominally" spec'd at eight ohms but with certain passages, put two and four ohm demands on the amplifier section.

(i can only comment on Denon and Marantz AVRs as that's what we've had for the last twenty plus years)


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Klipsch are very easy to drive speakers. Mid to upper tear receivers would have no issues with driving them. I've heard a lot about class D amps like in the Denon 4520 and they are also very efficient but their has been many comments about them being a bit bright (an affect of the design)



The Denon 4520 isn't using a class D amp. The pioneer uses class D amps ( mid and upper level).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Your right, my bad. I always though the 4520 had class D.


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## AU26 (Apr 12, 2014)

Hi Klipscher

In the end what did you decide?
If not yet, you will have to find dealer who stocks Klipsh and Yamaha and test it for yourselves and again
it will sound differently at your place until you calibrate it properly.
I got myself Yamaha RX-A1030 a month ago and paired it with MartinLogan ElectroMotion ESL speakers and I am pleased with what is coming out of this combination.

Cheers from Australia


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

The Marin Logans are killer for music, how do you find them for the impact driven sound tracks of action movies?

(from my younger music listening days, I have a thing for Martin Logan electrostatic speakers)


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## Aundudel25 (Dec 13, 2013)

BeeMan458 said:


> The good news, I'm not a big music guy and the vibration problem isn't noticeable during movie playback.
> 
> The bad news, unless we acquire a rather large, after taxes, winning lottery ticket, these are the speakers we'll be buried with.
> 
> ...



Hi beeman i have some klipsch and was looking for an avr to drive them for now until i get an amp. But just wondering regarding your comments to the quality of the recording material and sound track filtering, do you think it's more the klipsch speakers or the denon 4520 that highlights the soundtrack differences between movies that you hear. Or is it just that combination that allows you to hear the differences?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Aundudel25 said:


> But just wondering regarding your comments to the quality of the recording material and sound track filtering, do you think it's more the klipsch speakers or the denon 4520 that highlights the soundtrack differences between movies that you hear. Or is it just that combination that allows you to hear the differences?


Hi.

Neither, it's the sound track itself. "Black Hawk Down," is heavily filtered or output limited by compairison to "Pacific Rim." And movies like "Flyboys" and "Act of Valor" have huge dynamic range and it's quite the pleasure to experience this quality of sound tracking. Both the ending of "The Island" and "Flyboys" left us in stunned silence as if we had been dropped off in a magical place and left for a few moments.

The sound gear brings this type of sound track quality to the forefront but in the end, it's the quality of the sound track first.

In my opinion, this is the total picture. Klipsch horned speakers project the sound as opposed to floating it in front of the listener. Next, the 4520CI has an amplifier that can easily handle the demands of both the sound track and the speakers when they dig in the <4ohm range. So now you have a speaker system that projects the sound into the room and an amplifier section that can handle the demanding load. Enters the sound track.

If the sound track is weak or overbearing, no amount of gear will fix a bad sound track but if synergistically, the speakers, subwoofers and AVR are in tune, then the magic of the sound track will come through and both tactically and auditorily, will become an auditory feast for the senses.

The short version, I think it's the combination of sound track, speakers/subwoofer and the amplification section. In my opinion, the amplifier section of the 4520CI is so good/powerful, with sensitive speakers like Klipsch, one doesn't need a separate amplifier to achieve clean, continuous, reference level output.


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## Aundudel25 (Dec 13, 2013)

Thanks for the great explaination beeman! I was looking at the refurb either denon 4520 or marantz 7008 from A4L. Probably go with the denon now. And i'm gonna have to check out "Flyboys" "Act of Valor" and "The Island".


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

...



Aundudel25 said:


> Thanks for the great explaination beeman! I was looking at the refurb either denon 4520 or marantz 7008 from A4L. Probably go with the denon now. And i'm gonna have to check out "Flyboys" "Act of Valor" and "The Island".


I retired our SR5007 for the 4520CI. The 7008 is not going be able to keep up with the 4520.

Sound and Vision.

Check out the Home Theater Shack review.



> Summing It Up
> 
> In conclusion, I am thoroughly impressed with this unit. It has about all the features you could ask for in a receiver/processor and ample power to accommodate most any speaker system. *I initially intended on reviewing it and then selling it, but instead I have already sold my Onkyo 5508, XPA-3 amp and XPA-1 monoblocks. I keep thinking to myself that the 4520 seems to be a little on the pricey side, but if you consider what any other processor with the same features would cost you and then add the expense of amplification, the 4520 price actually sounds like a bargain.* I think the most surprising part of my experience with the 4520 has been its ability to drive my MartinLogan speakers effortlessly. I had almost given up on ever trying receiver power because I have always read and heard that the Prodigy’s pretty much needed at least 300 watts of good clean power to perform their best. I will have to disagree with the naysayers, as I find it hard to get any better than what it is right now with the 4520 the only power amp source in my system. Excellent job Denon!


Have I mentioned how much I love our 4520CI?

So far, after four months, I've found absolutely nothing that turns my head regarding our 4520 purchase.


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## AU26 (Apr 12, 2014)

So far so good.
I am not one who enjoys a lot of noise and bangs while watching movies but have to admit
that when there is a nice music track in the background it puts smile on my face.
As you know it MartinLogan ESL are around 90DB sensitivity index and it works for me while listening until late when everyone is already in deep sleep.
Didn't have any previous experience with MartinLogan but when I was auditioning (I think it is called Ethos) driven by Devialet and Bob Marley "Sun is Shining" was playing I was SOLD. Ethos was out of my budget range but ESL was close. It takes time to get used to a sound full of air.
Cheers


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

AU26 said:


> So far so good.
> 
> ...but have to admit that when there is a nice music track in the background it puts smile on my face.
> 
> ...


Thanks! When we get a winning lottery ticket, I'm looking to these speakers for upgrade purposes. For now, I have to live vicariously through folks like you.

......:T


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## rawsawhd (Apr 10, 2014)

BeeMan458 said:


> Thanks! When we get a winning lottery ticket, I'm looking to these speakers for upgrade purposes. For now, I have to live vicariously through folks like you.
> 
> ......:T


Yes, I could picture you now. Just sitting there after you cash that golden ticket. :spend:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?13814-Fabio-s-System-1995


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

AU26 said:


> So far so good.
> I am not one who enjoys a lot of noise and bangs while watching movies but have to admit
> that when there is a nice music track in the background it puts smile on my face.
> As you know it MartinLogan ESL are around 90DB sensitivity index and it works for me while listening until late when everyone is already in deep sleep.
> ...


Try out a QSC amp with the MLs... I got a pair of them and drove my ML Sequels with them and it was the best I had ever heard my Sequels sound! :T


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

rawsawhd said:


> Yes, I could picture you now. Just sitting there after you cash that golden ticket. :spend:
> http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?13814-Fabio-s-System-1995


With pleasure I'd look forward to the upgrade.


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## rawsawhd (Apr 10, 2014)

BeeMan458 said:


> With pleasure I'd look forward to the upgrade.


Funny thing is I actually had that magazine, I use to subscribe to it...


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

rawsawhd said:


> Funny thing is I actually had that magazine, I use to subscribe to it...


At that time I was assembling the speaker system we currently use and was using a 5.1 receiver that cost $300.00 USD. We also were bi-amping the Klipsch horns with a Golden Tube SE-40 amplifier. Room correction was too expensive for our budget and had yet to be integrated into AVRs.










Subwoofers were using puny 125w amplifiers and we were still using a 36" CRT television.

Personally, I believe we're living in the Golden Age of Home Theater.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

BeeMan458 said:


> The Marin Logans are killer for music, how do you find them for the impact driven sound tracks of action movies?
> 
> (from my younger music listening days, I have a thing for Martin Logan electrostatic speakers)


I'm not so sure this is the place to answer, but you asked 

I have several pairs of speakers in the man cave and can say without reservation, in my room and please know i am only talking about my room, the Martin Logans mentioned are brilliant for movies and music. I have some Klipsch monster speakers, some Dahlquist and others with each brand having their own positive attributes, but the Logans win overall. For movies they must have sub-woofer accompaniment but if done properly they will play most anything you throw at them. Dont even worry about turning them up, they can do it, as a matter of fact, for break in when they are new, the manufacture recommends turning them up to 92db for a period of time so then can become nice and engaging. They have excellent sound-stage, a brilliant mid range to upper treble that once experienced is hard to ever leave to go back to moving coil speakers, believe me i have tried. I would love one day to experience the big brother to these speakers but for now that is highly unlikely.

I really am happy and recommend them.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Savjac said:


> For movies they must have sub-woofer accompaniment but if done properly they will play most anything you throw at them. Dont even worry about turning them up, they can do it, as a matter of fact, for break in when they are new, the manufacture recommends turning them up to 92db for a period of time so then can become nice and engaging. They have excellent sound-stage, a brilliant mid range to upper treble that once experienced is hard to ever leave to go back to moving coil speakers, believe me i have tried. I would love one day to experience the big brother to these speakers but for now that is highly unlikely.


Oooooo, I feel my knees getting weak. 

There's got to be a winning lottery ticket around here somewhere. Are you using the XPA-5 to power your MartinLogans?


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## rawsawhd (Apr 10, 2014)

BeeMan458 said:


> At that time I was assembling the speaker system we currently use and was using a 5.1 receiver that cost $300.00 USD. We also were bi-amping the Klipsch horns with a Golden Tube SE-40 amplifier. Room correction was too expensive for our budget and had yet to be integrated into AVRs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That amp is nothing to sneeze at! particularly with those Klipsch speakers of yours..

Let me see, in '95' I had a Technics receiver, Fisher main speakers, pioneer center and rears and a hi-fi VCR, Pioneer laser disc player. Around that same time I upgraded to a Yamaha RXV2090 receiver, Klipsch KG 3.5 mains, Klipsch center(dont know the model # but its still in use upstairs 5" woofers) and Polk rears. Later I added a DefTech sub..

I think this is a great time for HT. Costs are down. 10 years ago you couldnt touch the systems we have now for less then $30k. Not to mention the advances in technology. You know what, you get more for you money now too!!


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## rawsawhd (Apr 10, 2014)

OOooooo, 36" tv??? I was stuck with a 27"!!!


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

rawsawhd said:


> You know what, you get more for you money now too!!
> 
> OOooooo, 36" tv??? I was stuck with a 27"!!!


I think we paid less for our current 60" flat screen than we did for the display model 36" JVC CRT television. In a year or so, I'm betting 80" screens will be cheaper than the 36" CRT. IIRC, 40" Mitsubishi CRT televisions were selling for about $4k USD. Now we can get 42" screen TVs for what you paid for your 27" television.


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## rawsawhd (Apr 10, 2014)

BeeMan458 said:


> I think we paid less for our current 60" flat screen than we did for the display model 36" JVC CRT television. In a year or so, I'm betting 80" screens will be cheaper than the 36" CRT. IIRC, 40" Mitsubishi CRT televisions were selling for about $4k USD. Now we can get 42" screen TVs for what you paid for your 27" television.


I'll tell you what, if memory serves me correct I bought a Panasonic 27" display model for $599. Moved up to a 36" RCA for $1100, 55" Mitsubishi HD widescreen from Sears for $3000, got divorced and sold it and down graded to a Vizio 42" plasma from Sears for $750 on sale. Bought a 60" LG from BB last year for $800 and now the Optoma projector from Staples for $750...


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## AU26 (Apr 12, 2014)

Hi Ellisr63

Went to check QSC and it looks commercial/professional field of power amps. The smallest one is 225W and the rest is going in thousands W per channel. What model do you use? Strange enough they are listing 1% THD at 1KHz?

Cheers from Australia


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The one I used was around 400 wpch as I recall... It was a few years back but it sounded better than any other amp we had ever heard with the ML Sequels. :T


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## AU26 (Apr 12, 2014)

Very interesting.
Most people suggesting to combine tube amp with MartinLogan's and I am keen to test as I don't have any experience with tube amps.
Next door dealer is showing PRIMALUNA vacuum tube amp ( I am afraid some of my friend will put some steak on it thinking it is a barbeque and smoke will stick to electrostatic panels as a glue!). Will see if there is a way to get that vacuum tube piece for test run. (sounds like taking a car for the test drive).

Cheers from Australia


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