# My HT Project.



## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

Hi to all of you who are just as interested, excited, curious, proud, and however you feel about your home theater or the idea of one as I am.lol So I have been talking with my wife and finally after getting rid of our oldest son to Army basic training (HOOAH) we are able to shuffle other children around and reclaim our downstairs basement room. I am recieving a fair retention bonus from work this month and she has agreed to finally let me have the theater room I have been wanting for so long. This is not my ideal theater room but I think it is going to be quite nice when we are finished none the less. So here is what I have to work with and what I hope to have (equipment wise) by the end of the month. 
Room: 28' x 11' x 7' 
Projector: Epson 8100 
Screen: 106" 16:9 
Sound System: Yamaha YHT-791 Home theater system. 7.1 
I will post pictures through progress so those interested can keep updated. I am curious what you think of my choices in equipment with a small budget. Keeping in mind that we also had to budget paint, carpet, carpet installation, and of course wiring, cables, mounting brackets for projector, and speakers. Also since it is an old house and the walls and ceiling allready exist I will be using very small diameter panduit in the corners to hide cables, and wiring. Hope you enjoy watching this build as I do. I have a rough Idea of the cost for entire build but I will let you guess and tell you when all is finished.

P.S.
I will have pics very soon.....


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok so here are the first set of pics just to give you an idea what the room looks like. it is in complete disaray because two of my boys were living in it and we are in the process of gutting and cleaning right now.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Good luck with the project. Just as a heads up, you might want to wait on the PJ and screen until you're a little closer to being ready. Too many things pop up during construction that might change requirements.

Bryan


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

Man, you keep your kids in bird cages!!!

Welcome to the addiction that is home theater. Its a great hobby, especially for the obsessive types as there are a myriad of details that one can think and re-think about. :huh:

I kind of agree with Bpape, your a little cart before the horse at this point. I would hold off on purchasing lots of gear until your ready to install it. I just got a epson 8100 and even though I have only projected images on unfinished drywall to test things out and stay motivated, its pretty impressive. A couple things you should decide on prior to heating your visa up...


- seating location (you have a screen size in mind already) with that screen you should be sittgin around 12' back or so. There is an online calculator for it. 

- lighting. What kind and where..how controlled? 

- Where is your equipment rack going to be?

- What is your ceiling made of? Are you going to do any sound proofing? Another layer of sheetrock and green glue would be most applicable as it appears you already have sheet rock up. 

- With that size room and screen your not going to have enough room to put the speakers in an ideal position... have you thought about an AT screen?

- In regards to the yamaha HTIB, Seems like allot of cash for a HTIB. You can spend ALLOT of cash on audio gear but you don't really need to. That said, the subwoofer in that system (or any HTIB) is going to be fairly disappointing. You really may want to look into building a separate system for close tot he same price that will sound worlds better. A nice sub is not really cheap even if you build one but I can say that my SVS subwoofer completely transformed my movie and game playing. 

You can check out my build thread.. Monkeyboy HT build.. the thread is getting a little stale :dontknow: sheetrock is finally all done and I am painting. Only about 367 more things to do and I'm all good.


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

I cant tell you how much I do appreciate the suggestions. However, some of the things that you suggest are A: going out of my already pre-set budget, or B: I have already looked into it. i.e. projection distance 14'2" and seating distance 11'-17'. the projection caclulator is indeed a great tool when deciding what you need for distances and so forth. The seating distance puts me somewhere between less than half the distance of my room to around 3/4 the distance of my room. The HTIB I know is strongly discouraged among HT enthusiasts but again it is a matter of money, not to mention there is a local company in town that is very experienced in this realm of HT lunacy (lol) and I went and talked with them about it. They also had this same HTIB system on display and it sounded pretty decent. (for what I am used to I guess) The suggested also that the reciever is great but the speakers could be better. they also said that for the money though it really isnt a bad deal and it does sound good. Perhaps in the future when I have more money I will be able to purchase better speakers but I am sure these will do good for now. I have done alot of research and measuring and reading and and and and obsessing over this project.haha I am sure with my budget I am getting the best deals I can find. There is always room for improvement that is for sure. Like i said im my earlier post "this isnt my ideal HT" but for now it will have to do. Having said all that, keep the suggestions coming I will need them for future reference when I get the time money, and approval (the wife) to impove on my HT. bbieger i checked out your build, looking awsome man, and I was impressed with the sound proofing efforts. That is something I will definately do in the future as it permits. thanks again guys and btw, i appologize if i dont get back to reply sometimes for several days as my job requires me to be gone for days at a time.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Set your seating position where you'll get the best bass reproduction. Determine screen size based on that position of seating. Don't let screen size drive seating location - that's somewhat backward. Usually, the best response is somewhere between 62 and 66% of the room length from front wall to seated ear position. 

You can potentially DIY a screen and save enough money on that to upgrade the audio. Maybe the HSU Ventriloquist system or the SVS package. Add something like a small NAD receiver and you've got some very nice audio going.

Bryan


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

Ignore this.........lol


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

bpape said:


> You can potentially DIY a screen and save enough money on that to upgrade the audio. Maybe the HSU Ventriloquist system or the SVS package. Add something like a small NAD receiver and you've got some very nice audio going.
> 
> Bryan


Ok so about that, well first off i will tell you how much I found the system for. $632.00 my screen is $189. it is electric and completely necessary because the only place to put it is in front of a door that needs to be accessed. Otherwise I would do a DIY screen. But as far as audio I am still very open to suggestions and perhaps I can splurge on the price a bit.


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## neginfluence04 (Jan 8, 2010)

have you had any progress on the room yet???


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

neginfluence04 said:


> have you had any progress on the room yet???


Yes I have finished most of the primer, and started a little with the paint just on one small section of the wall to see how it looks. Gonna wait till tomorrow though to get heavy with paint cause i want the primer to set up first.


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

Looking good. ARe you going to throw some padding and carpet down? Bpape could elaborate much more on this then I ever could but some accoustic treatments will really help your system sound better. I can imagine that room is kind of like an echo chamber. You can make some acoustic panels for the wall pretty cheaply. 

That HTIB does have a nice receiver. Audio ugrade advice? Buy one of these....http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-cyl-pc12_nsd.cfm (they also make non-round ones) put the blue ray terminator 2 in and prepare to be blown away!! 

yeah, its allot but once you hear what a decent sub sounds like, you really will laugh when you hear all of those subs sitting on the shelve of best buy. Really night and day difference. Evertime my floor shakes I thank myself that I bought that sub.


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

Yes carpet and padding will be done probably in about a month.


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok so the pictures dont do the color justice, but the wall are more or less done minus a few touch ups. It is a very dark RED and it will be accented by black borders. All the crown and floor molding will be black. It will be nice to have this part of the project done.lol OH and i taped black plastic bag over the window and turned off the lights. It is pitch black, there is some light coming through some door areas but nothing a little caulking and foam stips wont fix.


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

starting to look better. still have a lot of painting to do but at least by now you get the idea.


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

what do you think about Klipsch Speakers B-2 Home Theater System Synergy 
and Onkyo TX-SR876. If i can swing it I will try to invest around $2000 in my sound system.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If you have close to $2k to spend, there are a lot of choices out there that will be as good or better than that. Look at the HSU monitors and their sub. Add a moderately sized NAD receiver and you've got a killer system with plenty of punch and low end impact.

Bryan


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

bpape said:


> If you have close to $2k to spend, there are a lot of choices out there that will be as good or better than that. Look at the HSU monitors and their sub. Add a moderately sized NAD receiver and you've got a killer system with plenty of punch and low end impact.
> 
> Bryan


Ok so what about this bit HSU Enthusiast 3
and NAD T755


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That would be leaps and bounds better than the HTIB system. Some people actually prefer the little Ventriloquist monitors from HSU and then buy the VTF sub instead of the STF sub with the money saved.

The 755 will give you a ton more guts, more flexibility, easier future upgrades, etc. Don't lock yourself into an NAD it was just a suggestion. Just understand that the 755 is only a 5 channel amp and you're looking at 7 speakers in that package. You'd need to go to the T765 to get 7.1 (or if you just want to go 5.1, you could contact HSU and see what they'll do for you for just 5 of them)

Bryan


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

bpape said:


> Just understand that the 755 is only a 5 channel amp and you're looking at 7 speakers in that package. You'd need to go to the T765 to get 7.1
> 
> Bryan


Uh ya I kinda overlooked that one didnt I. Well here is the thing, I really want the 7.1 system simply because I have never heard one before.lol So tell me am I crazy for wanting it or is 5.1 sufficient? Does it sound alot better? I really dont know the sound difference so what do you think?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If done right, the 7.1 can add something certainly. IMO, though, the side surrounds would be best off being dipoles to really get the benefit. I'd call HSU and see if they'll give you a package deal on 4 monitors, the center channel, and maybe a VTF2 for around the same price. Personally, a better sub capable of really hitting hard and going deep has a much bigger impact on the overall experience than the 2 side channels in your situation.

The other option is to either move to less expensive electronics than the NAD or step up to the next level NAD (T765) to get the 7 channels whether you use them now or not.

Bryan


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

How big of a deal is the THX certified recievers, and what do you think about denon? I see the versatility with the NAD recievers but it would appear that they dont offer as much to start out with as the Onkyo, and Denon recievers do. While looking at all these options I notice that Onkyo gives you more for your buck out of the box. While they do sacrifice "some" wattage per channel they offer more features. Denon offers more wattage less features, and as for NAD they offer less "out of the box" features, and less wattage, but offer the ability to upgrade. Where is the trade off worth investing in? Need more help on the subject as I am now getting really obsessive about making sure I pick the correct reciever to fit my needs.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Considering you were starting with basically an HTIB setup, any of those will be a big step up. 

As for the brands, it's like everything else. At a given price point, you get features, performance, reliability. Some choose performance over features. If you want all 3, it just costs more. The Denon would be a good middle ground for you IMO. More reliable and probably better overall performance than the Onkyo but at a lower price for the sacrifice of power and upgradability from the NAD. 

I wasn't even looking at the upgradable NAD's as the least expensive one is going to basically shoot your budget before you even get to a blu-ray player, speakers, and sub. NAD does have one without a lot of the bells and whistles on it - I think it's the 747 that is 7 channel and has HDMI ins. Not a lot of fancys - no Audyssey, etc. Lower performance amp modules in that portion of the line also but still...

Just set a budget and stick with it. 

HSU Ventriloquist
HSU VTF-2 sub
NAD 755 or Denon/Pioneer
Oppo BDP-83

Would be a huge step up from the HTIB. 

Bryan


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

i really do appreciate your thoughts on the matter thanks for your help.


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

Ok I think this is what I am going for Onkyo tx-nr807: $795 and HSU ventriloquist + 2 more spkrs $380, and VTF-3 MK3 Subwoofer $699.........whew, lets hope my bonus is BIG.haha


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The VTF-3 packs a whallop. The sub is a piece which IMO can make or break the HT experience. That's a sub you can keep for a long time without worrying about upgrading.

Bryan


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

how would u compare the VTF-3 with the klipsch rw 12d?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Purely on specs:

Klipsch
FREQUENCY RESPONSE 24-120Hz +/-3dB
AMPLIFIER POWER FTC Rated Power: 350 watts continuous @ <2% THD / Dynamic Power*: 825 watts
MAXIMUM ACOUSTIC OUTPUT 116dB @ 30Hz 1/8 space, 1m
DRIVE COMPONENTS 12" (30.5cm) Cerametallic™ cone, front-firing woofer
AMPLIFIER BASH® digital hybrid
$799

HSU
Amp Power (RMS)
350 Watts

Bass Extension (max extension mode)
18 Hz , +/- 1 dB

Bass Extension (max output mode)
25 Hz

Woofer Size
12 Inches

Crossover
Bypassable 24 dB/Oct, continuously variable 30 - 90 Hz low pass
$699.00

That said, I've not personally heard that particular Klipsch. Have heard others of theirs in that series. I have heard the HSU and know what it will do first hand. I think it's one of the biggest bargains for a home theater sub out there. Just my personal opinion.

Bryan


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

i know im picking your brain alot but what about the svs PB12-NSD sub? also what would be concidered a good spl meter for the price. i figure if im spending so much on the system i should also learn and have the right tools to set it up properly.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Looks pretty good and is rated up a little higher if you need to xover a bit higher than 80. Their little monitors look pretty decent too, though I haven't heard them personally.


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

For whatever it is worth, I really love my ONKYO 607. I had an older ONKYO receiver and immediately noticed an increase in sound when I changed to the 607. Plenty of HDMI and power. Don't get too hung up on simple numbers like watts per channel. Sure the 807 has more power, but for an additional $400? IF you have speakers that are even moderately efficient your not going to need that much power, especially given the size of your room...unless you routinely watch movies with earplugs in or your legally deaf. There are advantages to having more power than just pure volume but some times I think audio enthusiasts can quickly go overboard chasing that last 5% of clarity or flat response. 

HSU and SVS are both great subs. My advice would be to call and talk to both of them about what you have and want. I did, SVS was a little bit more helpful and their cylinder design was a little easier to swallow for my wife. (not to mention it can fit in allot of places than a big box). I am super happy with my purchase. Like probably a little on the unhealthy happy side  

Bottom line is this, THE best way to decide on speakers is go and listen to them. Of all the mumbo jumbo, spin, and sales pitches "these sound better than speakers that cost twice as much" it is you that have to listen to them. I did sooo much digging around for information but when I finally went in to a decent audio sales place that had an auditioning room and speakers that ranged in price from $200 each to 2k a piece I found that I liked the sound of the polks best. So while it would have been easy to get sucked in to spending $2,000 for a pair of speakers because of their status or perceived quality..they didn't sound as good (to me) as a pair of RTi'8's. 

Given all that though, I would definitely spend a larger percentage of your total audio budget on the sub. Th3e difference between cheap subs and a quality SVS or HSU sub can not be over emphasized. The first time you plug that baby in I can almost guarantee you will be running to the computer to post how awesome it sounds..


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

hahaha, thanks for turning down my volume a bit it was extremely needed.lol great points made and highly appreciated. it is extremely easy to get reved over in the red when you obsess so much that you get caught up in specs. i agree it is important to get what works for "you". there is a great place in town and i plan on going and listening to thier setups. i will focus more on the sub and less on the bells and wistles. thanks both of you(bpape, bieger) very much for all your opinions and expertise.


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## Jmidgley (Jan 5, 2010)

I have ordered the following:
Onkyo tx-sr707 ..
SVS: SBS-01 7.0 .. = $1800 (shipping included)
SVS: PB12-NSD .. 
Unfortuneatly the speakers and sub are on backorder so I dont expect them for another month.:crying:

Got the Onkyo for $615 couldnt pass up the deal with an MSRP of $899
I managed to be one of the last to order last years model of the SVS speakers so I got a of a deal on them too. Although I think shipping was almost $200. Still a killer deal.

I got the EPSON 8100 about a week ago and been watching on my wall. (been waiting for screen material to come). I have to say WOW! I love it. I have all the cable I need ordered and the mounts for speakers and projector. Now that the ordering is over it is on to "THE WAIT" for UPS and USPS to deliver. Cant wait for it all to get here. Just means that there is still alot of work to get done. 

Thanks to bbieger, and bpape for all the suggestions and help you gave me. I think that my decisions in the end are for more worth what I had originally planned. When I get everything I will post pics.


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

Thats awesome! I just had to warch a movie on my 8100 when I got it as well. Now it's sitting in it's box waiting 

if you think that projector is cool, wait till you fire up that sub!! I highly highly recommend you rent a copy of the new transormers movie on bluray when the sub arrives. You will be soo happy you invested in that.
Congrats!
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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