# The Living the Dream Theater



## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Hello all,
I am a newbie on this forum. I have been on AVS for ages and I am looking for a different crowd to possibly learn from and get advice from.

The basics are this:
I have a story and a half house that has approx 1000 sq ft of unfinished space on the 2nd floor.
In that space I would like to have a theater, an office and a bar. This area is completely unfininshed currently. There is approx. 25' to the roof line over this space.

Here is the floorplan for upstairs:
View attachment Visio-Floorplan.pdf


We have a family of 4, but I have a lot of family nearby so I want to have the ability for atleast 8 people to sit in the theater or at the bar and watch a movie/sporting event.

As far as soundproofing I plan on doing either a rubber underlayment or roofing felt and then another layer of OSB. I don't think I want to go through the expense of doing resilient channel and clips. I am also debating on doing double drywall an green glue or doing one sheet of QuietRock as I can get a good deal on it through a friend.

Here is the floorplan I just worked up for the new space. Please give me your feedback on what you would do differently. The main things I am still trying to figure out is how to maximize my seating, especially how to layout the bar so that people can see then screen, and where to put my AV equipment.
View attachment Visio-Upstairs Floorplan - Without hallway, screen on south.pdf


Thanks in advance for any advice in this process. This will be a somewhat lengthy process as I will be doing a majority of the work with the help of knowledgable friends/family. I am excited about getting started on this and I look forward to learning from all the great folks here.

Wraunch


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

The basic plan looks OK..but what size screen are you planning on to determine that your front row seating will be at 12'4"?


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

The seating placement is still a draft. I have contemplated a 120" screen.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Have you considered doing countertop seating right behind the 2nd row of seating instead of a bar along the back wall? You could do stools there to create a 3rd row - then, you and the family could also use it to eat at while watching something. I have seen this done in a couple builds, and both times the person has said they were really glad they did it as it was used quite often.

Also, if I am reading correctly, this will be in part over the master bedroom. If you have any plans to use the room while someone is trying to sleep, you may want to look into more ways to isolate the HT room or know that you will have to temper the LFE.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

I would love to do a bar top right behind the second row. I guess I could do that and just make the riser deeper to allow for more space on top of it. I could put the bar anywhere. I plan on having water supply and drains for a sink, and icemaker in the bar. I would rather have that separate from the sitting area. I really like the idea of having the bar top serve as a third row for friends and family. Also having easy access to this bar in my adjacent game room will be nice when entertaining.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Oh and on the master bedroom LFE issue. That could be a bit of a problem. My wife goes to sleep an hr or so before me most nights. She already wears ear plugs do to my snoring so hopefully that will help as well but I do plan on doing another layer of 3/4" OSB on top of what I have with some time of dampening material like roofing felt in between the layers. Thoughts on that or the bar?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> I would love to do a bar top right behind the second row. I guess I could do that and just make the riser deeper to allow for more space on top of it. I could put the bar anywhere. I plan on having water supply and drains for a sink, and icemaker in the bar. I would rather have that separate from the sitting area. I really like the idea of having the bar top serve as a third row for friends and family. Also having easy access to this bar in my adjacent game room will be nice when entertaining.


Just a quick thought - if you were able to do the 3rd row, you would not need 6 seats in the 2nd row. This would open up some space along the walls while still maintaining an "aisle". Could you get your plumbing to either side and put a small cabinet / sink / icemaker along a side wall? As an aside, if you were to do a 3rd row countertop seating configuration, I would make sure to set it up with electrical outlets as well as a network connection, etc so it can be used as a serving counter or to hold a gaming console, laptop, etc.



wraunch said:


> Oh and on the master bedroom LFE issue. That could be a bit of a problem. My wife goes to sleep an hr or so before me most nights. She already wears ear plugs do to my snoring so hopefully that will help as well but I do plan on doing another layer of 3/4" OSB on top of what I have with some time of dampening material like roofing felt in between the layers. Thoughts on that or the bar?


I have read quite a bit about this as this was one of my biggest concerns - my entire family goes to bed normally a couple hours before I do. Know that there is no solution that will make it soundproof - sound isolation is really the best you can hope for. I think putting the extra layer of OSB with some kind of dampening material will help with highs and mids, but I am not sure how much it will help on the lows. 

I have no idea what your budget is for this, but if it were my room and I know going in that I may use it after everyone was in bed, I would reconsider doing res clips / channel as well as looking into how to isolate the floor. I would just hate to do all that work only to find out I can't put it to full use when everyone else is in bed - which is probably the only time I will ever be able to really see what it can do. 

Perhaps Bryan might have other ideas - hopefully he will see this and chime in - or you might consider posting in the Acoustics forum.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks Joe. Maybe I am misunderstanding but I thought the channel and clips on the walls and ceiling primarily help to keep sound from bleeding into the other upstairs areas. Would it help prevent sound from carrying down? As far as the flooring goes, I already have 3/4" OSB nailed to the joists that are filled with fiberglass insulation. Is there something I should be looking at doing with the floor other than dampening material and another 3/4" sheet of OSB? 

I could possibly put the bar on the left side near the door to the HVAC area. The reason I have it on the back wall currently is I want it easily accessible from the room to the top right which is my game room. 

Should I move the seating closer to the screen? I was under the impression I didn't want to be more closer than about 12 feet to the front row. I dont mind being closer. I currently sit 8' from a 52" LCD and it seems small. From a usage standpoint we watch a lot of HDTV on Directv, maybe a movie or two a week (that would increase with the theater), some sporting events on weekends (lots of football), and I play sports and shooter on Xbox 360.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> Thanks Joe. Maybe I am misunderstanding but I thought the channel and clips on the walls and ceiling primarily help to keep sound from bleeding into the other upstairs areas. Would it help prevent sound from carrying down?


The main purpose of clips and channel is to limit the amount of contact between your walls and the studs. Higher frequencies have much smaller wavelengths and are more easily repelled by your drywall - I believe this is the main reason 2x drywall is used as it repels most of those frequencies. In the case of lower frequencies, they have larger wavelengths and are not easily repelled - thus causing vibrations in your drywall. Those vibrations then transfer through to your studs and then to anything they are connected to - so forth and so on.

To counteract this, Green Glue is used between 2x drywall to provide a small dampening zone. Then, clips and channel are used to reduce the point of contact to a much smaller size than those wavelengths thus reducing their ability to allow the vibrations to continue to your studs. The reason I suggest these for your walls is that you could treat the floor somehow and still not have accomplished what you want since your walls would allow those vibrations to flank whatever work you did on the floor.



wraunch said:


> As far as the flooring goes, I already have 3/4" OSB nailed to the joists that are filled with fiberglass insulation. Is there something I should be looking at doing with the floor other than dampening material and another 3/4" sheet of OSB?


As far as isolating the floor, I did not spend a lot of time looking at how to isolate it. My room is in my basement and has concrete floors. I am planning on doing a Dri-Core floor which will provide the isolation I need (if my research is correct that is ) For the floor, I would definitely suggest posting in the Acoustics forum - Ted and Bryan are extremely knowledgeable and more than likely can provide a few alternatives there.



wraunch said:


> I could possibly put the bar on the left side near the door to the HVAC area. The reason I have it on the back wall currently is I want it easily accessible from the room to the top right which is my game room.
> 
> Should I move the seating closer to the screen? I was under the impression I didn't want to be more closer than about 12 feet to the front row. I dont mind being closer. I currently sit 8' from a 52" LCD and it seems small. From a usage standpoint we watch a lot of HDTV on Directv, maybe a movie or two a week (that would increase with the theater), some sporting events on weekends (lots of football), and I play sports and shooter on Xbox 360.


Hmmm - let me ask this. When you go to the theater, where do you sit? I would start there to help you decide how close/far you want to place your seating. Are you planning on a projector or a TV for viewing? 

Also, we have not touched on room modes. When I started by build thread, one of the first things Bryan pointed out was that most room modes fall in the 40%-60% range - i.e. in a 20' room, your room modes would be between 8' and 12'. This is the area where most peaks / nulls fall so you want to try to keep your primary seat out of this area. You should decide which seat is your primary seat and then start to plan where the rows will be from there.

Another consideration - are you planning on reclining seats? This matters more for the 2nd row - you list your riser depth as 9'. When I started talking to Roman from RSH about theater seating, he suggested 6' as a riser depth if you planned on recliners. If you are planning on non-recliners, you might be able to move them a bit and make more room for that 3rd row. Just a thought......

I will stop typing now.....:rolleyesno: sorry for the novel.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

By the way, if you have not already, I recommend reading through a few build threads. It really helps to generate ideas as well as helping understand everything you need to consider.

There are many great examples here - I have also read one other on the AVS forum by Moggie based on the recommendation from someone here.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

I would like to do some recliners on one of the rows. I'm thinking the front row. The second row will probably be couches or such. This will definitely be a projector room. I have been thinking about a 120" screen. I will probably stick to a 16x9 setup since most of the stuff I watch won't be in 2.35. Is there a rule of thumb for how much space to allow in front of a non-reclining couch? I had planned on a 8' riser to allow for recliners to be fully reclined and still have 2' of walking space in front of them. 

I have read a number of build threads on AVS but I am really looking for more help on what to do in a second floor build. My roof line is vaulted and I could have a bigger space if I wanted to have knee walls and angled ceilings in the theater but from an acoustic standpoint I would rather avoid that if possible. That is why I show a flat 9' ceiling with unfinished space to the left. From an isolation standpoint I have also considered quiet rock on the walls because I can get a good deal on that. I don't care if sound goes into the unfinished space or the ceiling as nothing will be around me but I want to keep as much sound as possible from traveling downward.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> I would like to do some recliners on one of the rows. I'm thinking the front row. The second row will probably be couches or such. This will definitely be a projector room. I have been thinking about a 120" screen. I will probably stick to a 16x9 setup since most of the stuff I watch won't be in 2.35. Is there a rule of thumb for how much space to allow in front of a non-reclining couch? I had planned on a 8' riser to allow for recliners to be fully reclined and still have 2' of walking space in front of them.


My advice - don't decide a screen size yet. Wait until you finalize where your seating will be. Once you know that, then watch some content on a blank wall from that distance to get a feel for how big you want to go. As far as the space in front of a non-reclining couch, I would probably stick with @2' - that should be enough room for someone to walk past someone sitting without have to get up (like you do in a theater). 



wraunch said:


> I have read a number of build threads on AVS but I am really looking for more help on what to do in a second floor build. My roof line is vaulted and I could have a bigger space if I wanted to have knee walls and angled ceilings in the theater but from an acoustic standpoint I would rather avoid that if possible. That is why I show a flat 9' ceiling with unfinished space to the left. From an isolation standpoint I have also considered quiet rock on the walls because I can get a good deal on that. I don't care if sound goes into the unfinished space or the ceiling as nothing will be around me but I want to keep as much sound as possible from traveling downward.


If I am misunderstanding or missing something, I apologize - but as far as the walls, it is the LFE I was talking about. I do not think Quietrock is designed to stop LF transmission (in the form of vibrations). If you adhere it right to your studs, the vibrations would go through the QR, hit your studs, and then hit your OSB layer going right around whatever isolation you do on your floor (I believe this is referred to as flanking). 

As far as isolating the floor, I found this suggestion:

_You're still going to have some bass transmission simply because the structure is shared and not isolated. 

The best idea IMO is to pull up the OSB that's down, put in some stud isolators, and float another floor up a few inches. Fill the space with insulation. Do the double flooring on top with GG and use 2nd layer of 5/8 drywall downstairs on the ceilings with GG. This will provide better but not perfect isolation between the spaces.

If this is not feasible, I'd still definitely do the double layer thing on both sides with GG._

Ironically, it is from Bryan from GIK from over 5 years ago.......:rofl2:


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

You said,"The best idea IMO is to pull up the OSB that's down, put in some stud isolators, and float another floor up a few inches. Fill the space with insulation. Do the double flooring on top with GG and use 2nd layer of 5/8 drywall downstairs on the ceilings with GG. This will provide better but not perfect isolation between the spaces."

Put the stud isolators on top of the floor joists I assume? Then reattach the OSB? I'm not following you.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Well, I cannot claim credit for the idea - it was a suggestion Bryan had on a different thread I read. But, yes, that would be the idea. You would in essence be doing the same thing I did to all my walls and ceiling with WhisperClips.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

What about putting stud isolators on top of the existing OSB and then putting down some 1x2s and mounting OSB on top of that? That way I don't have to rip up 800 sq ft of OSB.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I found this blurb in an article on The Soundproofing Company's website:

_Installing resilient clips directly to your existing ceiling drywall.

This will make the ceiling heavier, but the drywall will still be very resonant and conduct vibration allowing it to continue to ring like a bell and not really improve things much. In fact, the small air cavity created when installing clips over the existing drywall will likely amplify some frequencies, making things even worse._

It addresses doing a ceiling, but I wonder if the same logic applies to doing this on your floor. I might suggest contacting Ted or John from The Soundproofing Company (one of the HTS sponsors) - I worked with them on my project and they were extremely helpful.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Big updates since my last post. We have almost finished framing. I have pretty much finalized my layout. I am still trying to decide how to best control the components and the lighting from either a remote or tablet/iphone. Here is a pic of the updated layout. I will upload some framing pics shortly. I have a bunch of questions about the soffit, lighting, etc. My layout doesn't show the soffit but assume it is 24" wide around the room and drops down 12" from my 9' ceiling. I have mostly been posting on AVS but it seems to be going nowhere if you aren't planning on using Dennis' design service or spending $50k on soundproofing. I am still trying to decide where my projector should be and what size screen to use. I plan on buying a projector in the $2K-$3K range most likely. My first row will be about 11.5' from the screen. My screen wall will be about 15'wide and I plan on doing a false wall with the speakers behind it. The room is 30' long and I will have a second row on a riser and additional bar top seating behind the riser.

Thanks in advance for the help guys and girls!


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

what's the best way to upload a pic or pdf of my floorplan for feedback?


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Let's try this again.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh, that layout looks simply grand mate!

As far as the rest of the questions - ask away. We will do the best we can to answer them all! 

Looking forward to the pics!


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Glad to know I won't be exiled for not following the crowd in lockstep!

One question I had is I am trying to decide how big my soffit should be. Mine will be entirely aesthetic as the hvac lines will be in the attic above the room. I was thinking 16" tall by 16" wide should be enough. I plan on putting small "puck" cans in the soffit and mounting crown on the inside to hang my LED rope.

Looking at my floorplan, if those green dots are 6" cans do you think that is enough, too many? Remember I will most likely have 2-3" puck cans in the soffit too. I will probably skip the sconces since I will have soffit lights. On lighting control, I am going to have the cans broken into the following zones: screen wall, 3 rows over seats, bar lights, soffit pucks, soffit rope light, step lights. What am I missing? I don't know anything about automation especially regarding lighting control. I am going to have all the lights in the theater run into the same location near the door. I would like to be able to dim everything and set various scenes. Is the Grafikeye the best solution? I would like to be able to possibly use my iPhone to control the lights also. Do I need to look at Control4, Insteon, iRule? I have a friend that runs a security company and he can get me good pricing on C4, I just don't how to add components and such. I know dealers typically do that but I am fairly tech savvy and I should be able to figure it out if I know I can get access to the software to program the "brain".


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> Glad to know I won't be exiled for not following the crowd in lockstep!
> 
> One question I had is I am trying to decide how big my soffit should be. Mine will be entirely aesthetic as the hvac lines will be in the attic above the room. I was thinking 16" tall by 16" wide should be enough. I plan on putting small "puck" cans in the soffit and mounting crown on the inside to hang my LED rope.


Agreed - that would be plenty. You may even consider not dropping them quite a far - say 12". Making both sides the same length might look too "boxy" - having them different dimensions gives more shape IMO. Have you considered using your soffits for bass trapping? I made mine able to absorb from 20-200 Hz per a suggestion from Bryan - after some preliminary REW measurements, it looks like front traps and the soffits have tamed most of my ringing above 30 Hz.



wraunch said:


> Looking at my floorplan, if those green dots are 6" cans do you think that is enough, too many? Remember I will most likely have 2-3" puck cans in the soffit too. I will probably skip the sconces since I will have soffit lights. On lighting control, I am going to have the cans broken into the following zones: screen wall, 3 rows over seats, bar lights, soffit pucks, soffit rope light, step lights. What am I missing? I don't know anything about automation especially regarding lighting control. I am going to have all the lights in the theater run into the same location near the door. I would like to be able to dim everything and set various scenes. Is the Grafikeye the best solution? I would like to be able to possibly use my iPhone to control the lights also. Do I need to look at Control4, Insteon, iRule? I have a friend that runs a security company and he can get me good pricing on C4, I just don't how to add components and such. I know dealers typically do that but I am fairly tech savvy and I should be able to figure it out if I know I can get access to the software to program the "brain".


IMO - way too many. If you have gone to any effort to soundproof your room, the last thing you want is to cut that many holes in it. I have 15 3" LED lights in my soffit and 3 screen wash halogen lights. With all the lights on, there is more than enough light for me to see to clean. If you do any larger cans, I would do perhaps 2 over that 1st row of seats and 2 over the bar and leave it at that. It really is not too often that you will have all the lights on - cleaning is really the only time I can think of.

If you are doing colums, have you considered backlighting them? That is my current plan (stole it from Moggie after seeing how his looked) and that would give some additional lighting.

I have not used or done deeper research on anything besides the Lutron GE - I can tell you it is really simple to set-up scenes (dim settings for each zone). As far as automation, I chose iRule. If you have an iphone or ipad now, the extra cost is basically the Global Cache unit (roughly $250) and the license fee ($99 for the professional one). It has been super easy to get everything connected to it except my cable box - and that was because my cable box had an issue.

The GE has 6 zones available which looks like it would work for you. I think you have them all covered - the only zone I have that you did not mention is the star ceiling.

Hope this helps!


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Yeah I was thinking I might be overdoing it on the lights. What do you mean by backlighting the columns? I'm intrigued. If I want to distribute audio throughout the house and send video to at least one adjacent room can I do that with iRule or would that require additional components like HDMI Matrix switches and what not?

The main turnoff I have about C4 is I don't want to have to go to a dealer everytime I add a component or change my configuration. If I buy C4 hardware outside of a dealer can I program it all myself? Anyone have experience with that?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> Yeah I was thinking I might be overdoing it on the lights. What do you mean by backlighting the columns? I'm intrigued.


Here is Moggie's build thread - take a look at the first picture and you can see light spilling out from behind the columns:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1117148/saga-of-the-old-vic



wraunch said:


> If I want to distribute audio throughout the house and send video to at least one adjacent room can I do that with iRule or would that require additional components like HDMI Matrix switches and what not?


I am not positive on this, but I have not read anything in iRule yet that gives me the impression it can do this.



wraunch said:


> The main turnoff I have about C4 is I don't want to have to go to a dealer everytime I add a component or change my configuration. If I buy C4 hardware outside of a dealer can I program it all myself? Anyone have experience with that?


Apologies - I cannot help here. Hopefully someone else who has can chime in. Or, you could try starting a thread in the remotes / accessories area.


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

I've been looking at C4 for a while. I do admire the solution. Very integrated, very top notch. They have a home editor they can sell you but you will not be able to install any controllers or devices. You can do things like create a new lighting scene and new events. It sorta gives you control of all the events but not the building blocks. My only hangup so far is the cost and closed access to your own system. My neighbor has C4 and he says every time he sneezes hes paying money. What happens is you get gun shy and don't progress your system because of cost. Don't get me wrong, if you want whole home automation at 40k-100k its the way to go.

I almost pulled the trigger on their approach but I just cant justify it. 

Take a look at homeseer. I looked at Irule but homeseer will give you much more if you want home automation. I use homeseer controlled z-wave thermos, lights, curtains, zoned audio, hdmi matrix, etc. You can combine it with IR and RF. PM me for more info if you like. I will probably create a thread once I done with everything on my exact setup.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

I'll check out Homeseer. I definitely don't need a dealer to set it up or change my configurations for me. Control 4 is going to be on the outside looking in if they want to remain that rigid with this new generation of DIY'ers. I just uploaded a bunch of framing pics to give everyone a better idea of my space.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

This Pic shows where my av rack will be on the right. That short door opening is my access behind the rack.


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

iRule is cool as well. The real question is do you want something for multiple devices (ipads, ipods, kindles, mounted touchscreen) then I recommend Home seer but there are others as well such as MyCasa that do the same thing. I like homeseer for the support. Check out their forums and youll see a similar community as it is here.

Control 4's big advantage is a physical remote control that is integrated as well as a TV screen overlay that is pretty cool. All the UIs look the same over multiple device types.

For homeseer if you want hard remotes you will end up using Harmony, URC, etc.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Here is a picture of my layout I worked on with Floorplanner.


View attachment layout.pdf

View attachment 3d view 1.pdf


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

Very cool layout. How close will the front row be? What size screen are you going with?


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

First row should be 11-12' from screen. Thinking about a 120" AT screen.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Ok, time for some updates. I have completed half of the soffit and the rest of the framing is pretty much done. I found a great deal on a MA ERK4020 Rack for my equipment. I'm not ready for it yet but I found this rack for $50! It is full of shelves, rails, screws, etc. also!!!

I have one small issue. My AV room is beside a dormer window so it will have an angled 8" ceiling. The rack is 74" tall and 20" deep. At 74" in my AV room I only have 24" of depth to the rafters. I still have to scab on to the rafters for insulation to fit and it has to be drywalled. Attached is an illustration to explain. Should this be an issue? My only alternative location would be where I intended to put my wetbar.

For some reason I can't upload the image but you can see it here also.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1401519/living-the-dream-upstairs-theater-build/90


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## MrAngles (May 1, 2012)

That is a great deal on that rack, I'm jealous.

If you're worried about airflow on the top rack, just put lesser-used equipment or equipment that doesn't produce much heat up there. My top rack will have all my non-standard size units on it, like the IR repeater, splitters, switches, etc.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

I don't know if the guy still has it but there are two MA racks on Craigslist in Hoover, AL for $300/each I thought about too.

I guess it doesnt matter if the steel posts touch the drywall as long as the components have room to breath. For this deal I will make this rack work!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

MrAngles said:


> That is a great deal on that rack, I'm jealous.
> 
> If you're worried about airflow on the top rack, just put lesser-used equipment or equipment that doesn't produce much heat up there. My top rack will have all my non-standard size units on it, like the IR repeater, splitters, switches, etc.


That is what I would do as well. If you do locate the amps and AVR at the bottom, I would suggest a couple small fans to move air down there.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Forgive my noob questions. So my layout will consist of two cans behind my AT screen, three in front, three over the first row, three over the second row and a final set of three over the bar area. I will also have some under cabinet lighting, 3" puck lights in the soffit, LED rope in the Soffit crown, and step lights in the riser. I plan on terminated all of these where I plan on putting a GE. I am missing something? Can I also have a switched dimmer (3 way) for my undercabinet lights near my bar with the GE on the other switch?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> Forgive my noob questions. So my layout will consist of two cans behind my AT screen, three in front, three over the first row, three over the second row and a final set of three over the bar area. I will also have some under cabinet lighting, 3" puck lights in the soffit, LED rope in the Soffit crown, and step lights in the riser. I plan on terminated all of these where I plan on putting a GE. I am missing something? Can I also have a switched dimmer (3 way) for my undercabinet lights near my bar with the GE on the other switch?


The only things I have that you do not have listed a the star ceiling and the back lighting for my columns so I think you have everything covered.

Just so I understand, do you mean a switch after the panel but before the GE unit itself to power on and off the GE unit, or do you mean a wall station?


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

A wall station. I'm thinking if a guest wants to go to the bar but the lights are dimmed too low or off they won't have the light control at the bar. Also, what happens when you sell the house and the buyer doesn't have your panels on their phone?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> A wall station. I'm thinking if a guest wants to go to the bar but the lights are dimmed too low or off they won't have the light control at the bar. Also, what happens when you sell the house and the buyer doesn't have your panels on their phone?


I would think it would work fine. I have to believe the wall stations would mount in a gang box just like any other switch assembly. I do not recall seeing any special gang boxes on Lutron's site.

And, no worries for me there. My wife and I have a pact that they will haul us out of this house on a gurney someday.....


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Did you look into the other Lutron systems like RadioRA, Maestro, etc? If so why did you go GE? Not saying you're right or wrong just trying to learn more about them so I make the best choice. Also, did you look at others like Insteon, Leviton? Can they be controlled by iRule?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I did not - one of the other builds I was following at the time went with that unit. Our lighting was very similar so I decided to just go with it as I knew it would work and I could bounce questions off him if I had any.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Ok, it's been a while since I did an update. Here are some quick updates and some pics. We are done with the electrical rough in and the plumbing for the wet bar. I am now ready to work on my low voltage wiring. Here is the updated layout and my low voltage plan. What am I missing? What would you do differently?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looks like you have everything covered mate - about the only thing I could think of would be a sub connection point on the right side of the room and back wall for flexibility.

Keep up the good work!


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Would you run digital coax or just RG6 to the sub locations?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> Would you run digital coax or just RG6 to the sub locations?


I would just run RG6. The only other thing I did was to run standard speaker connections to each sub connection point just in case I ever decided to go with passives.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

How do you terminate the RG6 to use with powered subs? My current sub just has RCA jacks on it.


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## Brian Moses (Mar 18, 2013)

Hi. 
I would terminate with a standard F style wall plate and then make a custom cable! F connector on one end and a RCA male on the other! Plug into LFE and your set! 

Have a blessed day!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Brian Moses said:


> Hi.
> I would terminate with a standard F style wall plate and then make a custom cable! F connector on one end and a RCA male on the other! Plug into LFE and your set!
> 
> Have a blessed day!


This will do it. Alternatively, you could go with a RCA keystone in a keystone wall plate (available from monoprice) and do RCA males on both ends.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

ALM, it's been a month or so since I posted. I just recently finished my LV wiring. I still need to staple the wires in a few places to neaten it up but it looks great so far. 

Here is my question. I picked up a Grafik Eye GRX-3006 finally. I got a great deal. It is basically the older version of the 3106. It has IR just like the 3106. I know you said I could run a CAT6 cable to the GE to control the IR via IRule. From a code standpoint how did you wire the CAT6 into the box for the GE? I know you aren't supposed to mix LV and HV cables in the same box. What did you do to address this?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> ALM, it's been a month or so since I posted. I just recently finished my LV wiring. I still need to staple the wires in a few places to neaten it up but it looks great so far.
> 
> Here is my question. I picked up a Grafik Eye GRX-3006 finally. I got a great deal. It is basically the older version of the 3106. It has IR just like the 3106. I know you said I could run a CAT6 cable to the GE to control the IR via IRule. From a code standpoint how did you wire the CAT6 into the box for the GE? I know you aren't supposed to mix LV and HV cables in the same box. What did you do to address this?


I ended up switching from a cat6 line to a standard 4 wire phone line because the wires were stiffer which made them easier to work with. Also, it is a smaller line so it was easier to run through the conduit with other LV lines.

As far as I know, the is no code stating you cannot use the same gang box to terminate a LV and HV line. It is more of having the HV line creating line noise in the LV line. So, I have a 4 gang that the GE mounts in, I used the far right knock out for HV and the far left for LV to keep them apart a bit. Works like a charm...


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

So did you just cut an IR wire and splice the phone line into it? How did you plug it into the GE?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> So did you just cut an IR wire and splice the phone line into it? How did you plug it into the GE?


Nope, I used the phone line only. I got some of the 3.5 stereo connectors from Parts Express and put one on one end to plug into my GC-100. 

To connect it to the GE unit, I hard wired them into the IR Data and IR Com connection points. For my unit, these were located on the back left side and were colored orange. I of course used the same color wires on both ends. :bigsmile:

In essence, I made my own 3.5 stereo connection line. I could have used a pre-made cable, but I would have had to cut one end off to connect to the GE. Plus, I was having a hard time finding one that was 40 feet long.

I am about to leave for LSAF - if this did not help, let me know as I will try to check in from there late tonight.


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## MrAngles (May 1, 2012)

You can get male-male or male-female 3.5mm cables as long as 100 feet from monoprice for super cheap, I use them in IR distribution systems. Phone or network cable has a lot more durable jacket though and is a lot easier to pull through walls.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Big update! We passed our rough-in inspection today. Insulation going in on Friday.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Time for updated pics. We are now on to painting and hope to be trimming out everything Monday. Then all that will be left is flooring from a construction standpoint. Now I need to figure out where I want to mount my crown and light tray inside the soffit.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Really like that color mate - well done! :T


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

It came through a little redder in the pic. It is more of a red wine color. I am pleased with it.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Another update. Picked up a gently used set of M&K LCR 750THX speakers with the matching center channel and rear surrounds as well as the V-1250 sub. I am quite impressed with the sound they put out for the deal I got on them. We are finishing the crown in my addition this weekend then we should be painting trim and putting down hardwoods in the bar area then we will carpet the theater!!!


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

wraunch said:


> Another update. Picked up a gently used set of M&K LCR 750THX speakers with the matching center channel and rear surrounds as well as the V-1250 sub. I am quite impressed with the sound they put out for the deal I got on them. We are finishing the crown in my addition this weekend then we should be painting trim and putting down hardwoods in the bar area then we will carpet the theater!!!


Congrats on the speakers! I always check that brand out when ever I see them for sale. They maybe overkill just looking for a good deal for a bedroom setup just l/c/r.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

wraunch said:


> Another update. Picked up a gently used set of M&K LCR 750THX speakers with the matching center channel and rear surrounds as well as the V-1250 sub. I am quite impressed with the sound they put out for the deal I got on them. We are finishing the crown in my addition this weekend then we should be painting trim and putting down hardwoods in the bar area then we will carpet the theater!!!


Hmm - I have not heard of those before. Got pics?


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Time for a few updated pics.    

The last pic shows the carpet we're going with. We'll use the black one from the sample. Now I am trying to figure out where to mount my projector and seating distances. 

I want to build a 130" WIDE 16x9 DIY screen. I have two rows of recliners and I will also have a row of bar height seats behind the recliners. I am thinking my first row will be at 10'6" or 11'. Then I will have a 7' long riser with the recliners set to the rear so our heads are 17' from the screen. The bar will be at 21'. I am planning on using a BenQ W1070 for my projector. I need to figure out how high I need to build the riser as well. I have 9' ceilings in the space and based off the BenQ calculator it seems like I need a riser 12" tall.

Any thoughts?


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

First of all the room looks fantastic. The wood floor gives it a very high end look, though I assume most of the theatre area will have carpet. I also really like that shade of red. Looks great with the black ceiling, and somehow the white trim/soffit fits in well too!

For the riser height, I think most people say that about 8" is the minimum they would need, but it all comes down to placement. The best way to decide would be to mock up a design and measure/estimate where the average veiwer's head would be and draw sight lines from each row. Then you can either move the seats forward or backward, increase or decrease the height of the riser, or increase or decrease the height of the screen's location on the wall. Your nice high ceilings should give you a lot of flexibility.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback. The trim is a light flat gray but it comes out sorta white in the pics. The area in between the hardwoods will all be carpet as will the riser. Hoping to finish the last bit of hardwoods this afternoon in the equipment room.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Hardwoods are now done. Now I can finally do my last big construction debris cleanup to prep for carpet!!! If I do a 12" tall riser, should I do a 6" step? Thinking about making one 16" wide, 6" tall and 12" deep to put on each side of my recliners so it makes a niche essentially to slide the recliners into.


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

Looking great!

I would definitely add steps for anything over 10". Not only is it a more finished look but you don't want the tripping hazard. Climbing up 12" is not as much of an issue as going down for anyone with hip issues, elderly, clumsy people in the dark, and smaller children.

If you don't want a step protruding out maybe you can cut it into the riser which makes a great look.


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## wraunch (Apr 18, 2012)

Yeah I don't mind the step sticking out. Just trying to get feedback on the size. I think it will look nice to have them frame in a niche for the chairs.


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## orion (Sep 18, 2009)

Looks really nice. 130 may be a bit big for the front row. I have a similar size room and screen but my front row is at 13.5 feet and it can be a little straining for the front row. FWIW


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

standard steps are on 7-8 inches high and 10-12 in deep with a min 9" deep. if you go 12" high rise plus carpet, go with 6.5 inch high step assuming there is carpet and padding on top or 7.5-8 if all wood. 12 inch deep is better for a larger person due to length of shoe/feet. Also if there is a lip on the upper riser you need a deeper step.


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