# Firewire chipsets for audio (and other problematic hardware)



## jonathanm

I suggested elsewhere we start a thread to keep track on firewire cards / chipsets, and other hardware that can cause problems with DAW setups.

So here it is 

Please post in here any info you find regarding firewire chipsets, motherboard chipsets, graphics cards etc, and compatibility issues with audio hardware or software.

Manufacturer's info, User experiences (good or bad), etc etc.

If you post info from a manufacturer, please remember to include a link so that people can check to see if the info is still current.


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## jonathanm

Ok, I'll get the ball rolling - here's the skinny from Presonus :

APPROVED FIREWIRE CHIPSETS
PreSonus interfaces will work with a wide range of firewire cards and configurations. Due to the
plethora of firewire chipsets currently on the market, it is not possible to thoroughly test each one for
compatibility. Most users will not need to alter their current PC configuration to use their PreSonus
interface. The following firewire chipsets, however, have been tested and approved for use with all
PreSonus interfaces:
• Agere/LSI FW323-06
• TI TSB43AB23
• VIA VT6308
• VIA VT6306 (on some older motherboards this chip-set will only support a limited number
of playback channels: 32 channels at 44.1 or 48kHz; 16 channels at 88.2 or 96kHz)
These chipsets are available on a wide range of motherboards and PCI/PCMCIA firewire cards. Here is
a brief list of manufacturers and models of PCI firewire cards:
• Lucent IEEE 1394a
• Syba SD-LUD-4F
• HP PA997A
• Eforcity PCRDFW31CON1
• Sabrent SBT-VT6306
• Micropac Technologies SBT-VT6306
• SIIG NN-400012-S8
Please note: manufacturers may change chipsets at any time, so it is recommended to verify these
models still employ a chipset in the above list prior to purchasing.
At this time, PreSonus only recommends the following Express cards:
• ADS Pyro 1394a
• StarTech EC13942
PreSonus Audio Electronics | 7257 Florida Blvd, Baton Rouge, LA USA | Tel: 225-216-7887 | Fax: 225-926-8347 | www.presonus.com | sales[email protected]
KNOWN INCOMPATIBLE HARDWARE:
• ATI RADEON 9000/9001 IGP video chipset. Symptoms are consistent click and pops
during audio playback. This video chipset is only found in PC laptops and is entirely
integrated as the computer’s only video controller. PreSonus strongly recommends that
users do not purchase a system with this chipset as there is currently no workaround for this
incompatibility.
• USB/firewire and s400/s800 combo cards. Symptoms usually include no audio
recording/playback but the device will install and sync and erratic audio performance.
Rarely combo cards will prevent the device from installing or achieving a stable sync. We
recommend firewire cards that have s400 firewire connections only.
• Firewire cards with NEC chipsets. Symptoms include installation issues, erratic audio and
extraneous static and noise.
• Motherboards with nForce4 chipsets. Symptoms include reduced to very poor
performance especially if using the onboard firewire connection. Installing a PCIe (not
PCI) FW400 only card with an approved chipset is a known workaround, but may not allow
full performance.

From here : http://www.presonus.com/media/pdf/hardware_compatibility.pdf


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## jonathanm

Here's the advice from Mark Of The Unicorn :

MOTU FireWire audio interfaces and PCI/PCMCIA FireWire card chip sets

MOTU recommends using strictly FireWire PCI/PCMCIA cards based on the Texas Instrument chipset.

There's an incompatibility between the NEC chip found in some FireWire cards and the MOTU FireWire line of interface.

If the FireWire installer warns you that you're running a FireWire card with the NEC chip, you should replace said card with a card that uses the TI (Texas Instruments) or LSI (formerly Lucent/Agere) chip.

Keyspan, Sonnet, Miglia, and ADS are a few of the many brands using the TI or LSI FireWire chips. Note that not all cards by a given manufacturer use the same chipset, so please check with the manufacturer of the FireWire card before purchasing it to ensure it has a TI or LSI chip. Many combo USB/FireWire cards do not a use TI or LSI chip, so a dedicated FireWire card is recommended.


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## DrGeoff

I've got several MOTU interfaces (896) that run fine on the Via chipset.


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## jonathanm

M-Audio recommends using TI chipsets, and also using a dedicated card - not on board firewire.

Here is a snippet from their page, more information on firewire at the link.....

There are several FireWire chipset developers that build chips that are significantly cheaper than Texas Instruments, and for this reason, PC manufacturers are starting to use these less expensive chipsets. Unfortunately, many of these other chipsets are not as reliable as those manufactured by Texas Instruments. M-Audio cannot simply say only use Texas Instruments chipsets, because some of these other controllers actually work very well, and M-Audio does not want to endorse any particular manufacturer. Some firewire chipset manufacturers are improving the quality of their controllers, but when problems are encountered, the chipset is the first place to look. When a chipset is in question, M-Audio does recommend using the controller chipsets which have a history of being the most reliable.

Even if your motherboard has an on-board FireWire controller with a Texas Instruments chipset, you may encounter problems because all onboard devices, including the FireWire controller, are run through the Southbridge of the processor. This means that there is a lot of traffic that the FireWire signal must compete with for access to the processor (all USB, onboard audio, onboard video, serial ports, network controllers, etc...). Data coming from all of these devices creates a bottleneck and greatly increases the chance of the FireWire signal being interrupted. The interrupted data is dropped to maintain the delivery time of the rest of the data. When too much data is dropped, the audio signal may be appear as distorted, completely dropped, or the computer may even drop the connection with the FireWire audio device. To avoid this on a PC, we always advise installing a dedicated FireWire card. This is because the PCI bus runs to the Northbridge of the processor. The Northbridge provides more reliable access to the processor because it only manages the data from the PCI, AGP, and memory.

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.faq&ID=e3f83a97b5b9ea3d8875e546ab813516


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## immortalgropher

I've never had any issues with any chipsets, not to say that others don't, but it's not something I think people need to stress over.


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## jonathanm

AstralPlaneStudios said:


> I've never had any issues with any chipsets, not to say that others don't, but it's not something I think people need to stress over.


Well I think you've been lucky - I've seen loads of problems. And did you read the above posts? two of the manufacturers I quoted actually name incompatible hardware. There's similar info from other manufacturers too, I just haven't dug it out yet.

Then there are some combos that seem to work fine for some people but don't work for others. :huh:


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## Sandro Gomes

I have a Presonus Firebox and it doesn't work with my notebook. An ACER Aspire 5520, my Firewire Chipset is RICOH. I faced some issues until I was informed that it won't anyway... Very frustating...


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## AVDweeb

Hey All.

Just something to point out, since it's kinda relevant to this topic.

One thing that I've seen, is that although a FireWire interface say a it's hot pluggable, the computer (particularly Mac's) should be powered down before plugging in or removing the device. While working as a technician, I saw many logic boards fail due to the user not shutting down the machine.

YMMV
_Posted via Mobile Device_
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## doubeleive

a quick note as a pc technician for over 15 years firewire is, has been, and probably will continue to be problematic, after dealing with many different chips they all have problems of one sort or another that will crop up if you use it regularly, it is in my opinion just not a perfect interface, good luck!


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## jonathanm

Good point - hot plugging , especially bus powered firewire devices can cause failure of the host, the device or both.....even though hot plugging is part of the IEEE specification...


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## jarodelight

Hey guys,

I've got an issue with Motu 828 and SSL Duende on the same computer because one of the controllers was based on VIA chipset (the next one was TI). Especially Duende caused problems - I could use only half of DSPs. Problems dissapeared when I bought the second TI card.


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## BoogieBear

Maybe FireWire will die a natural death with the introduction of USB3! :boxer:

Cheers
Anton


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## hendrikxix

I agree with Jonathanm. By far the biggest problems that I have found with incompatible gear comes from non-Texas Instruments Firewire chipsets causing problems with firewire-based audio interfaces. As far as I know, TI is the only manufacturer that is completely compliant with the standards set by IEEE for the 1394 specification.

If there is a non-TI 1394 chipset on the motherboard, there is very little you can do to get decent performance. Even adding a TI 1394 PCIe card might not fix problems with drop outs. I had a lot of problems with Dell machines using either Via or Ricoh chipsets and being unable to use MOTU hardware.

I am unaware of any Dell machines that use TI 1394 cards, so be very careful choosing a Dell machine if you are planning on using a 1394/Firewire interface. 

Henny


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## ngarjuna

gswan said:


> I've got several MOTU interfaces (896) that run fine on the Via chipset.


Ditto, my 828mk.III runs great on my Via. I was worried when I scored the MOTU and was going to just buy a TI card without even trying mine but I was advised by a DAW builder to try it out, that he had seen good results with the Via. Sure enough, works like a charm.

I have also tried the device out on a few laptop expansion slot cards and it didn't run so hot on some of those.

I guess what I've learned is that even though everyone says TI is the only way to go, the reality is there are problems with certain combinations of interfaces + cards; it would seem, though, that TI is never a partner in these bad combinations, so if nothing else it seems to be a pretty safe bet across the board.


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## planetnine

The Belkin PCI FW card is TI TSB43AB23 loaded. I use them with FW interfaces and the Focusrite Liquid Mix.

I have ground to a halt with firewire and Acer laptops too. Sometimes disabling wireless and wired networking helps, but the PCI buss latency spikes all over the place on them when trying to run 1394A.


I run an Intel boarded quad-core motherboard in my audio workstation, which has on-board TI firewire. It works happily with this and an added Belkin PCI TI card which gives me two independent 1394A busses. This enables me to run a FW audio interface (Saffire 10 or 26) and my Liquid Mix with no issues at all. DPC latency is mostly less than 20-30 microseconds under full load.

Nathan.

>


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## biigniick

i tend to stick to the Oxford 911 and 922 firewire chipsets with any ProTools rig. they have always been ROCK SOLID for me. the 911 is a firewire 400 to IDE converter; the 922 is the firewire 800 counterpart.



doubeleive said:


> firewire is, has been, and probably will continue to be problematic


PC's have been and probably will continue to be problematic. . . :unbelievable:

hahaha, but in all seriousness. although USB has a higher theoretical bandwidth, in practice is slower than firewire 400. i like that the firewire interface uses its own hardware to handle the data transfer rather than making the computer's processor do the work. pro audio guys stick with firewire because they get higher track counts and more data through put to HDD's and interfaces.

- nick


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## jonathanm

BTW, (in case anyone didn't spot it), the Oxford chipsets that Nick is talking about are firewire *storage controller* chipsets.....in other words, they are the chipsets inside external firewire hard drives.

This is a totally distinct issue from the firewire *host controller* issue that you need to watch out for when looking for a motherboard or firewire card to plug your audio interface.

Just as much a pain in the backside though.....









Nick, are there any storage controller chipsets you recommend avoiding? (I don't use firewire drives)


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## planetnine

I have Oxford 911 chipsets in my FW hard drive caddy, I think this was recommended by Digidesign/ PT users in the early days to ensure performance required for working directly off FW drives. They're certainly solid...

>


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## DIGIT

The most widely used and recommended is the Texas Instrument chipset - I have never had problems whit TI based firewire ports - regardless of device connected to it...

The Oxford chipset are rec'd for external drives - this thread was about motherboard/PCI card chipsets if I am not mistaken...


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