# In search of a new home theater receiver...



## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

I just got a PS3 and while I love the picture, I'm deeply saddened by the sound quality offered to those of us unwilling to upgrade their receivers.

As much as I love my Denon AVR-3803, I fear I will have no choice but to upgrade. As angering as it is, such is the way of technology, I guess.

So the quest begins...

I am unwilling to downgrade in anything. The power of this AVR is nice and wouldn't want any less than 110 wpc, I use just about all my inputs, and I find the overall quality of the unit very nice. In other words, I loath the idea that it is now essentially useless. A pile of trash that those shopping at Goodwill would thumb their noses at.

Can anyone list some models that I should start looking for? I would prefer not to spend a whole lot, and dont require the absolute best. I just don't want to move down everywhere else just to gain a single proprietary input.

Ideally, I'd like an inexpensive outboard processor that could pass the signal to my receiver via 7.1 analog connections, but I'd have to give up multichannel music, and my mood grows more foul when I think of that.

I'd be lucky to get, what, maybe $200 or $300 for my current obsolete lump of scrap, so lets put the budget at about a grand, which is $1000 more than I want to spend. Is there anything that can come close?

:boxer::no::rant::rant::duh:addle:rder:rder:rder::dollarsign::spend::gah::rolleyesno::thumbsdown::wits-end::foottap::hissyfit:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

How much do you want to spend? The Onkyo TXSR705 is very good and for around $650 its a great deal.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

You've got some good options at under $1000, but some even better options just a tad over $1000.

I think the best receiver with lots of good features for under $1000 might just be the Onkyo TX-SR805 for $761 shipped.

• 130 Watts/Channel at 8 ohms (FTC)
• HDMI and Component Video Upconversion
• 3 HDMI Inputs and 1 Output (ver.1.3)

Just a little over $1000 you have some more nice options:

Onkyo TX-SR875 at $1168 shipped

• 140 Watts/Channel at 8 ohms (FTC)
• THX Ultra 2 Certification
• HDMI and Component Video Upconversion (HDMI 1080p Upscaling - HQV Reon-VX Video Processing)
• 4 HDMI Inputs and 1 Output (ver.1.3)
• Audyssey MultEQ XT to Correct Room Acoustic Problems

Denon AVR3808CI as low as $1188 (but that may not be with the manufacture warranty)

• 130 Watts Per Channel x 7 Channels, All Channels Rated at 0.05 THD
• 4 DVI/HDMI Video Inputs/1 Output, 3 Component Video Inputs/1 Output
• 5 Optical Digital Inputs/2 Outputs, 2 Coaxial Inputs, 11 Analog audio Inputs, Incl. Tuner
• XM-Satellite Radio Capability, 8-Channel External Analog Input
• 7 S-Video Inputs/3 Outputs, 3 Composite Outputs, Digital to Analog REC Output


Yamaha RX-V1800BL at $1199 shipped

• 7-channel 910W powerful surround sound (130W x 7), 3 Zone/3 Source Receiver
• Latest HDMI 1.3a (4 in/1 out) specification supports with Deep Color (30/36 bit) transmission, 120Hz and 24Hz Refresh Rates and Auto Lip-Sync
• Analog video (480i or 480p) upscaling to full HD 1080p
• HD audio format signals capability: Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD High Resolution Audio and DTS-HD Master Audio
• iPod compatibility via optional Yamaha YDS-10


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I'd prefer to keep it under 800. I really dont want a new reveiver at all, so spending a lot would really tick me off. 

The Onkyo 805 looks pretty good for the price.

What about the Denon AVR-2808ci? I like Denon, so that's sort of where I started. Ive noticed the new receivers have fewer inputs than mine. I need at least 4 optical ins, and probably three HDMI ins. The Onkyo has only 2 optical ins. My computer, DVR, and CD changer all need optical ins. DVD, PS3 and future sources would likely be HDMI.

Thank you Sonnie, that is a good list to start weeding through. However, Ive never heard of Denons bursting ino flame. My dad bought an Onkyo and it exploded within five minutes and I'm reading a lot of storis about the new Onkyos having similar problems.

Another concern is how much I could get for my 3803. If I cant get at least $300 for it, I don't think I'll be able to swing a new one. I have a lot of stuff to buy for my bike for spring, so the budget is tight. There are only three on EBay and theyre all over the place. 700, 200 and 50. Anyone know what I could get for the old brute?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I've owned the 3805 and 3806 and they always seem to do a good job for me. The last Denon I had, the 2807, I was very disappointed in it. It was wimpy compared to the other's I have had. 

You must have an old DVR. All the newer models have HDMI.

I don't think you'd have any problems getting $300 for your 3803. I'd put it on Audiogon for $400 and take offers.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

No remote... Knock off a hundo for that I'd guess.

It's not an HD DVR, so I have S-Video and optical.

What was the power rating of the 2807? The 2808 has 110wpc, the same as my 3803. I'd love to get a 3808ci, but theres no way I can afford that with all the other stuff I'v been buying and need in the near future.

If I were more confidant it wouldn't burst into flames, the Onkyo would be at the top of my list, but apparently it's amp runs a little warm. Ventilation is no problem in my rack, but they seem to erupt at random, regardless of airflow.

I guess thats what the warrenty is for, but I would be very unhappy if I couldn't use my system for a month or however long it takes to replace.

I wonder if Onkyo has plans to address the issue.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Hah, I notice a lot of people complain about how heavy the Onkyo 805 is. That's funny, its' not like its an mp3 player. I like beefy components. I think i could make a new top cover for it with computer fans in it. I think that would help.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

My my, I just have to comment on this heat situation with the Onkyos. On their website, they claim it's certified for 6 ohm output. If it burns up with no load, how is it supposed to deal with 6 ohms?

I really like it, other than the quasi-bomb properties. My only other problem is the sparsity of optical ins. I guess I could use coax for my changer, though. Or can I? I'll have to check on that...

No, no I cannot. So unless I can assign the output as an in, I'd be loosing something. Is three optical ins really that much to ask? Why do I always run int **** like this?


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

The heat issue could just be related to the amp design. Some amps just run hotter than others though I would personally stay away from a $1000 component that does not allow a 4 ohm load. A class A amp for example runs hottest when sitting idle and cooler when delivering lots of power. If the unit is UL rated, which I think it has to be, then it is tested vigorously to ensure that it will not pose a fire danger under normal (or extreme) conditions. Perhaps their issue is more with quality control.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

The Onkyo 805 is THX Ultra certified so it must be able to maintain a 3.2 ohm load. I have that unit and it preforms flawlessly. The heat issue is not as bad as some make it out to be mine gets warm but in no way gets HOT to the touch. I have read hundreds of reviews on the Onkyos and only two of them have reported a fire or "exploding" and thats with the 875 not the 805. 

The Onkyo 805 has 3 HDMI inputs 3 Opticle inputs and 3 coaxial inputs all of them are assignable to any input you choose.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I forgot to actually post my response last night. So here goes: Are you certain the Onkyo has 3 optical ins? In the photos of the rear panel I've seen, there are only 2 labeled "Input". The out must be assignable, as well then, right? 


I have found the best deal of all on the Onkyo 805. A coworker by pure coincidence mentioned to me at lunch that Direct Buy has really good deals on Onkyo. So I had him log into their website and check the price for me.

Guess.


*Spoiler* 



$721.91


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Do they provide full warranty? Does it include shipping? Are there taxes?

393 complaints... wow!


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

$26 gets you peace of mind right here at the Shack via 6th Ave.

Accessories4Less has refurbs for $680, still factory authorized.

The silver units actually showed up at Circuit City online for $699 for a few days last week.

-Brent


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Apparently it is factory authorized and I can get an extended warranty. I'd have to pay MN sales tax and shipping to my house if I so chose. I guess I've never looked too deeply into the whole thing, but from what I hear, it's essentially like buying stuff from the manufacturer rather than the store. Another plus is that I wouldn't have to mess around with online buying. I'd plunk down my cash and they deliver it to my house.

I still haven't fully convinced myself that I really need a new receiver. Although the positives are pretty tempting. 

I really hate to buy stuff online. I always like to be able to throw it on a counter and demand my money back. 

After looking at some of the other prices, I guess it comes down to which one would be the fastest and cheapest to ship. Of course I have to go through an hour and a half of entering information just to see how much they want to ship the thing, so I'm going to bed.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I certainly don't want to seem like I'm pressuring anyone to buy from the Shack store. I'm a firm believer in shopping around and getting the best deal you can get while at the same time having peace of mind. One thing I like about buying at Wal-Mart is if I don't like it or it tears up right away, I can take it back with no fuss. Buying something local does in some cases give me peace of mind.

However, for those who might be considering this Direct Buy deal... I would investigate them thoroughly. First of all, it cost to be a member and get good prices... and that membership fee is outrageous... along with annual payments. You will have to buy an awful lot of stuff to ever come out ahead. You won't come out ahead saving $26 per purchase.

I firmly believe in warning our members of dangerous companies:



> DirectBuy UCC TotalHome United Consumers Club ripoff $3500 membership fee min + 6% on all purchases, former employee MajorCities Nationwide
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The good thing about buying from the Shack is you are protected by Amazon. I've not found anyone online more worthy of purchasing from. If you get a defective item and within 30 days you return it, they will provide you with a shipping label via their website that you can print out. There is no gas and time to have to spend taking it back anywhere. And there is definitely no waiting any 3 months. :raped:

Even with individuals who sell personal items online. Their money is held for 2 weeks to insure the buyer gets what was described and all is well. We had a member buy some used Klipsch La Scala's for $800 and I can't remember what happened, misrepresented or what, but I know he got his money back. 


Ultimately whether you buy from the Shack or not is irrelevant. Obviously we appreciate purchases made via the Shack store, but we don't get upset if a member buys from somewhere else... we want the member to be happy. The store is here as a benefit to members who want to use it. If nothing else it can serve as a great reference tool.

Night night...


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*



yourgrandma said:


> from what I hear, it's essentially like buying stuff from the manufacturer rather than the store. Another plus is that I wouldn't have to mess around with online buying. I'd plunk down my cash and they deliver it to my house.


You're still buying it online. I would second Sonnie. Go with the best reputable source. Sleep well!


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2008)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Here is the new Pioneer coming out in June :


Specifications VSX-1018TXH-K
------------------------------- 
Amplifier Direct
Energy
------------------------------- 
Amplification 130 watts x 7

------------------------------- 
Multi-Channel Advanced
Acoustic with
Calibration microphone
------------------------------- 
Dolby Digital 
------------------------------- 
Dolby Digital Plus 
------------------------------- 
Dolby TrueHD 
-------------------------------
DTS 
-------------------------------
DTS 96/24 
-------------------------------
DTS-HD 
High Resolution
Audio
-------------------------------
DTS-HD Master Audio 
------------------------------- 
WMA9 Pro 
------------------------------- 
Video Converter to HDMI
------------------------------- 
HDMI 1080p Video 2 HDMI 1.3 x 3
Scaler
------------ ------------ 
1080p Component 3 in, 1 out 
video inputs
------------------------------- 
Digital
inputs/outputs 6/1
------------------------------- 
iPod Digital 
------------------------------- 
Auto Level Control 
(ALC)
------------------------------- 
XM Satellite Radio 
------------------------------- 
Sirius Satellite 
Radio
------------------------------- 
Suggested Price $599
------------------------------- 
Availability June 2008
------------------------------- 

That's for Pioneer. I'm sure Denon, Onkyo, Marantz, Yamaha, NAD and so on are all coming out with mid value product this summer. Take your time and do some homework. If you're willing to wait, you'll get some great product at an affordable price and you won't hit your head on the wall for not have waited 4-5 months! :gah:

that's my 2 cent


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## OvalNut (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

When that new Pioneer VSX-1018TXH-K comes out, my wallet is going to get alot lighter very quickly. That is the tipping point component for me for me to go Blu-Ray HDMI.

I've had a Pioneer VSX-1015TX receiver for a couple years now, and I just love how it sounds in my room. I have very high expectations for this new version including HDMI 1.3 connectivity and the HD audio formats.

Yeah! :jump:


Tim
:drive:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Wow... that sounds like an excellent price.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

The Pioneer looks like a nice unit but its too early to say if its build quality is as good as some of the others mentioned.


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## Funkmonkey (Jan 13, 2008)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Looks like i will be waiting a few months to get into a new receiver, or pre/pro. This year will be an interesting one, for sure.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I had a Pioneer and I don't think I'll repeat that mistake. It never broke down, but it sounded like poo. I always had to have the bass and treble adjusted for it to sound passable. I've never needed or wanted to adjust the bass or treb on my Denon.

I wouldn't be getting a DB membership, but I think you've talked me out of having my coworker buy it for me. 

I'm not in a huge rush, but I'd like to get all the HT spending out of my system before spring. As soon as the roads are clear, the only time I'll be home is to sleep. All my free time is spent on the bike. Not to mention money.

I'll probably do some homework for the next month and see if prices come down any by then. 

There are some people at work who might either want or know someone who wants my Denon. Hopefully I can get what I need out of it.

Oh, Tim, I suspect you're a NASCAR fan? At my work, we make the scales most of the teams use for chassis setup and supply NASCAR with the inspection platform they use before and after every race. We just finished an overhaul on it today. Not as bad as last year. They decided it needed work right after the Daytona 500 and needed it back for the next race. That was a 90 hour week for myself and three other guys. No fun. Figured if anyone would find that interesting, you would.


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## OvalNut (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Yes I am a NASCAR fan, big time. February can't come soon enough around here. 

My last receiver was a Denon, AVR-1804, and it sounded thin. I really, really didn't like it. The Pioneer is a whole other beast. To each their own.

Go Newman!


Tim
:drive:


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

$5 and you can have a chunk of the deck of the inspection platform! 1/4" stainless! Or are you not "that" kind of fan? 

I was meaning to ask if anyone can offer any insight as to whether there would be any big difference in the soundof the Onkyo to my Denon. 

I'm also curious about the automatic EQ. Does it try to flatten out the response, or does it apply a house curve? I bet that thing would go crazy in my room. The acoustics are so bad it would set itself on fire just to get out of that task.


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## OvalNut (Jul 18, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Nope, not "that" kind of a fan, though I am a true graduate of the Buck Baker Racing School. In that 3 day course at Rockingham, I drove, at speed, the very same car that Geoff Bodine drove in the 1992 Daytona 500. Scare it out of you fun!

The Denon I had didn't have any auto EQ, but the Pioneer MCACC EQ system just levels everything out to a point, no house curve. I think you'll generally find that all of the auto EQ systems strive for as level a response as possible.


Tim
:drive:


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I just read THIShttp://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_14_3/onkyo-tx-sr805-receiver-9-2006-part-5.html

A really good rewiew of the Onkyo 805. It does a really nice job of explaning the different auto eq systems.

That review pretty much seals the deal for me. I'm pretty sure I'm going for it now.


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## Funkmonkey (Jan 13, 2008)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I think you are in for a treat. I have heard many very, very good things about Onkyo's latest offerings. I have had an Onkyo TX-8511 2 channel receiver for the last 10years or so and has been great for what it is.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

That's a pretty good review there. It shows us that the 805 can easily handle a 4 ohm load, contrary to some of the other amps on the market competing with the 805.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I'm still waiting for confirmation that the optical jacks are all assignable. It's imperitive that I have at least three inputs. 

It seems like it will be a step up from where I'm at. I'll probably go to Ultimate this week and check one out in person. Physical build quality is important to me, so I want to be sure it's put together well. The weight is an indicator that it should be good.

I liked the power ratings in that review, too. It's nice to see the ratings aren't inflated. I wonder if those 20 watts will make any difference in my system...


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*



yourgrandma said:


> I wonder if those 20 watts will make any difference in my system...


Likely not as the additional 20 watts will equate to about .5db or so but the build quality I'm sure is great which may lend a better sound at higher volumes. It is nice to see that they are not 'stretching' their stats for the sake of marketing though. In addition I bet the amp has lots of dynamic headroom which is really what you need in an HT setup. Congrats on the decision I'm sure you'll love it. Does Ultimate carry Onkyo? Last I knew they had Denon, Yamaha, Sony and Pioneer.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I'm not even sure since it's been so long since I've shopped for an AVR. If not, I know Circuit City does. It's less than a mile away, so I'll go to both.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I went to Circuit Poopy and did a physical inspection of the receiver. Boy that thing is built. There are heavier AVRs, but not at that store. The volume knob is a real turned aluminum piece, and its movement is nice and sturdy. A well built piece of equipment to be sure.

I'm still having a hard time finding out whether the optical output is reversable, though. I can't for the life of me figure out why coax ins outnumber opticals on so many receivers. I have one component with a coax out. I have SEVEN with optical outs. 

Hopefully I can sell my Denon to a coworker who wants to use it for backyard movie nights. Then it's just a matter of sitting out that wait that makes me hate buying online.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

I ordered the 805 just now. It looks to arrive on Monday. Unfortunately, I will be selling my Denon on Saturday, so Saturday night and Sunday will be boring.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Congrats... :T

I suppose you are no longer in a "foul mood". :bigsmile:


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

No, but I probably will be on Saturday night with no way of watching BluRay.

I still need to order HDMI cables.

Man, I gotta get my stuff together.


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## Funkmonkey (Jan 13, 2008)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Congrats... make sure to let us know how it works out for you. I am still thinking about 805 or 875, or wait. But if I were to buy right now it would be an Onkyo.


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

WWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

It'll be here tomorrow, it'll be here tomorrow, it'll be here tomorrow, and I'm gonna hook it up!

Sorry, I love getting new stuff so much I just had to make a song about it.

I got a free upgrade to air shipment. I requested three day, but was charged for air, so I called and made sure the charge was removed, and the shipping changed to three day. Apparently they just snipped off the charge and forgot to change the shipping method.

I think I'm actually going to take a half day off work tomorrow to play around with it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

You wont be disappointed. I know that I was feeling the same way when my 805 came.:bigsmile:


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

The excitement was somewhat hindered by having to pay $35 for a 6' HDMI cable so I don't have to wait to play the HD sound formats.

Oh well, I still need a 35 footer and I won't be going to walmart for that...


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## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

*Re: I've worked myself into a rather foul mood...*

Well after a couple brief nights with the 805, I'll give my preliminary review. 

I'm not sure if it's the extra power or just the differant amp, but this receiver seems to control my speakers more tightly. The sound is definately diffferent. Something I wasn't really expecting. I can hear details I didn't hear before. Overall, the sound is more presice, clinical almost. I'm not sure if I like it or not. Not enough time yet. 

I am having a slight disagreement with Audyssey over what sounds good, but if I turn off the EQ, all is well.

The build quality is close to my Denon, but not quite there. While it is much heavier, certain things aren't as robust. The sheet metal of the outer case isn't as thick. The volume knob is plastic (I was mistaken in my earlier post. I don't know how I made that mistake, I work with aluminum all day). The top of the cover rattles against the face.

I will continue to update my ongoing review of the receiver as my impressions are solidified. 

So far, I will say that it is a good deal, but I'm not sure I really needed the upgrade that badly...


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## Guest (Feb 11, 2008)

Onkyo 805.....Probably the best overall receiver under $800......looking to get one myself soon.
Jared


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