# Line condition-surge suppressor?



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Hello,
I'm considering some Line Condition-Surge suppressors, from the likes of APC, Tripplite, Belkin and Panamax, I would like to stay around $250, are these devices worth the investment or more snake oil claims of improvement in better video and audio performance, I would appreciate some of your thoughts with these devices. Thanks Guys.
Jeff


----------



## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

I bought a Belkin, not for any attempt to improve the sound, but to provide insurance against surges and lightning.
At a previous house I lost modem, phone and answering machine to lightning. At the current house I have lost an adsl router to lightning so I decided it was time to do something about it.
The Belkin filters the TV antenna, Phone and network while providing line protection for the AV equipment as well.

So far so good.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

IME, there is no need to spend that much unless one has a rather unique need for filtering that you know you can't solve with other methods. This is rare. We have never had anyone present evidence of improvements in the actual power supply nor signal after the filtering that is already in most power supplies. There is a good case to be made for solid protection as described above, but that can be done for well under $100.

Make sure that your electrical system is solid and meets code, and that everything is properly grounded with good connections, use a good surge suppressor with protection for all incoming lines, and you should be fine. 

There are rare instances of line noise that shows up in a pix or sound that are affected by these devices, but in almost all cases proper grounding or the basic surge suppression devices do the same thing.


----------



## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

If wanted surge suppression, individual strips are a good option, however, I think a panel device at the home entrance is the best protection, especially for value as it will protect all your electronics and appliances (practically everything has a circuit board). I haven't installed one, but it looks pretty straightforward, and not terribly time consuming if you have a pro install it which might be recommended for safety. 

Someone pointed out to me that insurance covers household electronics, but I'd rather spend a couple hundred than thousands for a deductible, plus the chance that it isn't covered or doesn't pay out, in addition to the inconvenience of replacing equipment, being without air conditioning, food spoilage, or even...without tv.

The Intermatic IG1240RC3, IG3240RC (increased suppression/warranty) or IG1300-2T if you have cable, look reasonably good and priced well if it suits your panel application. That would be amazing if HTS could get a killer quantity discount for members...


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> IME, there is no need to spend that much unless one has a rather unique need for filtering that you know you can't solve with other methods. This is rare. We have never had anyone present evidence of improvements in the actual power supply nor signal after the filtering that is already in most power supplies. There is a good case to be made for solid protection as described above, but that can be done for well under $100.
> 
> Make sure that your electrical system is solid and meets code, and that everything is properly grounded with good connections, use a good surge suppressor with protection for all incoming lines, and you should be fine.
> 
> There are rare instances of line noise that shows up in a pix or sound that are affected by these devices, but in almost all cases proper grounding or the basic surge suppression devices do the same thing.


Leonard, I really don't have any specific or unique needs for filtering, I've read both positive and negative feedback concerning line conditioning, most as you say did not see or hear any improvement as far as power supply or signal filtering after the fact. My interest is to provide some solid protection and power cord management. My electrical system has been upgraded and meets code, my listening room is so called "dedicated" with only my components on two breakers. Can you recommend a good surge suppressor for all incoming lines in the price range you mentioned, everything is to my belief properly grounded with good connections, I have measured AC voltages across my components in accordance with plug orientation and used the plugs oriented that produced the lowest voltage, I don't know how beneficial this is but was told that proper AC polarity with all components in a given system is important. Thanks Leonard for your input and look forward to your recommendation for surge protection.
Jeff


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I have two of these Trip Lite HT10DBS power centers and three other trip lite isobars. For the price you cant go wrong.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

ironglen said:


> If wanted surge suppression, individual strips are a good option, however, I think a panel device at the home entrance is the best protection, especially for value as it will protect all your electronics and appliances (practically everything has a circuit board). I haven't installed one, but it looks pretty straightforward, and not terribly time consuming if you have a pro install it which might be recommended for safety.
> 
> Someone pointed out to me that insurance covers household electronics, but I'd rather spend a couple hundred than thousands for a deductible, plus the chance that it isn't covered or doesn't pay out, in addition to the inconvenience of replacing equipment, being without air conditioning, food spoilage, or even...without tv.
> 
> The Intermatic IG1240RC3, IG3240RC (increased suppression/warranty) or IG1300-2T if you have cable, look reasonably good and priced well if it suits your panel application. That would be amazing if HTS could get a killer quantity discount for members...


Thanks Glen for the suggestion, appreciate that.
Jeff


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

robbo266317 said:


> I bought a Belkin, not for any attempt to improve the sound, but to provide insurance against surges and lightning.
> At a previous house I lost modem, phone and answering machine to lightning. At the current house I have lost an adsl router to lightning so I decided it was time to do something about it.
> The Belkin filters the TV antenna, Phone and network while providing line protection for the AV equipment as well.
> 
> So far so good.


Rob, what Belkin to you have, I looked at the PF 30 & 60.
Jeff


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> I have two of these Trip Lite HT10DBS power centers and three other trip lite isobars. For the price you cant go wrong.


Tony, do you use the ethernet and cable inputs of the HT10, if so is there any degradation of cable (coax) connection with your video, I have my coax cable which is directly from the pole and not split into my Motorola DVR and output from DVR with component video into display and HDMI from DVR into the 809. I really like the video output from the RGB into the display and use this when not powering up the 809, I know I can just use pass through with HDMI with the receiver but I prefer the Component with the DVR 1080i output. I just realized I made a simple question complex by rambling on.
Jeff


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ive never noticed any degradation of the coax signal going through the TripLite. I also use the network jacks on the HT10.
We have really good power up here but I still think that using one is always a safe bet. Ive never lost a piece of electronics that Ive had plugged into the TripLites and Ive been using the older ones I have for over 15 years.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

There should be no more than .5 to 1 db loss due to the connectors on the coax line.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Ive never noticed any degradation of the coax signal going through the TripLite. I also use the network jacks on the HT10.
> We have really good power up here but I still think that using one is always a safe bet. Ive never lost a piece of electronics that Ive had plugged into the TripLites and Ive been using the older ones I have for over 15 years.


Thanks Tony, the HT10 looks like a good unit and reasonably priced, I was allocating more $ so I may get a couple of these and the Isobars look impressive as well.
Jeff


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> There should be no more than .5 to 1 db loss due to the connectors on the coax line.


That is acceptable, Leonard can this be measured before and after the surpressor, I was more concerned about the actual coaxial cable rather than the connectors (more connections = greater signal loss) I assume that you also would recommend the Tripp Lite H10? Thank you for the time my friend.
Jeff


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

You can measure it if you have a signal strength meter which covers the spectrum of the signal on the line, but most people do not. Unless the unit is badly designed or defective, the much larger reason for loss exceeding these levels is poor connector installation and oxidation, but once properly made it just really is not much of a problem.

Tripplite products are some of the best IMO.


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

ironglen said:


> If wanted surge suppression, individual strips are a good option, however, I think a panel device at the home entrance is the best protection, especially for value as it will protect all your electronics and appliances (practically everything has a circuit board). I haven't installed one, but it looks pretty straightforward, and not terribly time consuming if you have a pro install it which might be recommended for safety.
> 
> Someone pointed out to me that insurance covers household electronics, but I'd rather spend a couple hundred than thousands for a deductible, plus the chance that it isn't covered or doesn't pay out, in addition to the inconvenience of replacing equipment, being without air conditioning, food spoilage, or even...without tv.
> 
> The Intermatic IG1240RC3, IG3240RC (increased suppression/warranty) or IG1300-2T if you have cable, look reasonably good and priced well if it suits your panel application. That would be amazing if HTS could get a killer quantity discount for members...


I agree that panel based suppressors offer better protection at the least cost. However, many of them do not include protection for signal lines and in many installations running the signal line at the entry point to the panel first is not practical. Regardless, the signal lines MUST be grounded to the electrical system at or near the entry point, so you have to at least run the ground to the electrical system's grounding electrode.

Adding extra MOV based protectors in the system locally at each system just adds more protection, and they are cheap.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> You can measure it if you have a signal strength meter which covers the spectrum of the signal on the line, but most people do not. Unless the unit is badly designed or defective, the much larger reason for loss exceeding these levels is poor connector installation and oxidation, but once properly made it just really is not much of a problem.
> 
> Tripplite products are some of the best IMO.


Thanks Leonard for the heads up, do you think the HT10DBS is the way to go, I will probably need two or move up in the Tripplite line for one better unit, your thoughts, either way both options are less expensive than I originally allocated for.
Jeff


----------



## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I think it is fine. I use tripplite, cyberpower, and panamax suppressors in my systems. Just be sure that every line coming into the house or between systems has protection. People often forget satellite, cable, or phone lines.


----------



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

lcaillo said:


> I think it is fine. I use tripplite, cyberpower, and panamax suppressors in my systems. Just be sure that every line coming into the house or between systems has protection. People often forget satellite, cable, or phone lines.


Thanks Leonard, I must agree I am guilty of overlooking cable and phone as well as ethernet, I will get right on that, and again Thanks.
Jeff


----------

