# Help selecting a new Receiver



## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

I have started to upgrade my old H/T I have 65" 1080p tv , Samsung bluray , xbox 360 , Direct tv Hd-dvr.
I wanted to buy a receiver next and know very little about current tech. I have been reading all i can for the past two weeks though . The room is 15x20 and all 5 existing speakers are older advent center ,rear ,and front , the sub is a powered aiwa. I really don't know what features i need and the ones i dont. I mostly will use it for watching Bluray movies. no plans to upgrade to 3D. can some of you recommend a good better and best , even if it's other than i have been looking at? I really dont want to go to $500 unless it's really for the best. This is what i have found so far, and the best price I could find on each

Pioneer vsx 1120 499.00
Yamaha 765 319.00
Onkyo 608 349.00
onkyo 707 399.00
Onkyo 807 499.00


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Will you be routing video threw the unit?
How much power do your current speakers require? Will be be upgrading in the near future?
What level of audio? Did you want DTS/Dolby HD or is DTS/Dolby Digital enough.

Sorry for all the question, just try to narrow down the search


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

yes i would like to route the HDMI thru the unit, I do not know how much the current the speakers require. the rears are ADVENT bookshelf , the center is an ADVENT center channel speaker , and the fronts are 36" tall tower Epicures and all 8 ohms. yes i will be upgrading my speakers as i can afford it, but not right away as far as DTS/DD i want everything i need , DTS .TRUE HD , DD II


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

IMO, That pioneer 1120 has everything you need and then some. It has been getting good reviews on AVS saying it is one of the best for the money.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Skip the Pioneer if you can get a 

If you keeping your current Blu ray and can get the Onkyo TXNR 807 for under $500 go for it and let it do the processing


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

yes, the Samsung Bluray player is new bp-6500 with built in wifi. are you saying let the bluray do the processing? i dont understand what you mean


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Of the AVR's listed, I would probably go with the TX-NR807. The combination of Internet Radio/Firmware Updates, THX Post Processing, and heaviest weight would make me go that direction,

When the 807 was Bench Tested by Home Theater Magazine, it did offer over 100 Watts into 5 Channels. However, into 7 Channels, it output 34 Watts. They said this was due to Protection Measures and the 5 Channel Performance is excellent as very few AVR's output 100 Watts into 5 Channels when Bench Tested.
Cheers,
JJ


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

how would that affect the 7 channel performance ?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
In truth, it is exceedingly rare when all 7 Channels are tasked with full power reproduction especially with the Surrounds. Whether the Current Limiting on 7 Channels would be an issue with the 807 is predicated on Speaker Selection, Room Size, and preferred Listening Levels. 

In truth, most AVR's do not offer that much power into 7 Channels. In truth, I really think of the AVR's on the List, the 807 would probably be the most powerful. Again, it did output over 100 Watts into 5 Channels. For comparisons sake, Sony's 2000 Dollar STR-DA5400ES only outputs 39 Watts into 5 Channels.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I'd go for the 807.:T


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Sorry. for the missunderstood post.

Video conversion within the Onkyo is done by a Faroudja DCDi Cinema chip which is one of the better one out there at this price point. I am not sure which chip the Samsung uses, if it uses a lesser chip I would send raw un processes video to the Onkyo from the Samy so that it does the processing rather then the samy prior to the video signal being routed to the display.


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## IsaacHayes (Jul 11, 2010)

My vote is for the Pioneer 1120. The video quality is awesome with it. I can't believe how sharp/clear DVD's look. And forget about ever seeing blocky-ness or pixelated stuff. Even on the worst quality DVD's the picture looks no worse than a clear signal on an old CRT TV. (I had some DVD's that you could see the compression blocky-ness and pixels on a CRT! With the 1120 the DVD looks fine!) It sounds good too and has good power. Right now I threw a flash drive on a cable to it with all my MP3s. I plan to hook it up to the home network too so I can control it from the other room.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The 807 also gets my vote, the weight of all 3 others listed is lighter and that is a clear indication that they skimped on the power supply.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

is the Yamaha a close second or should i stay away from it? the 319.00 shipped seems very cheap


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Not really, I would compare all the weights and get the heaviest one. Yamaha also seems to have issues with the HDCP handshake over HDMI more than any other brands I know of several members here who have complained about it and I have a close friend who also has the problem.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

the pioneer vsx 1120 advertises THD .05% while everyone else on my list is at THD .08% will that make a difference? 

Is weight always a indicating factor of higher quality? heavier always better? couldn't the factories get wise to that and simply add more dead weight?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I do like that the VSX-1120 uses Marvel's Video Processing which is excellent. Yamaha has a good reputation for quality and Customer Service. What I do not like about both is that they each use proprietary Room EQ's (MCACC, YPAO) that are not as effective as Audyssey's MultEQ. 

MultEQ applies correction in both the Time and Phase Domain by virtue of the FIR Filters used. Audyssey is the brainchild of USC Professors Tomlinson Holman who was behind THX (Tomlinson Holman Experiment) and Chris Kyriakakis. They developed the initial Technology at USC's Integrated Media System's Center and have been refining it since at Audyssey. It really is a cut above almost every Room EQ out there. 

I will say that Trinnov's EQ looks quite interesting as well. This too is a Product of Hollywood where the Standalone EQ costs over 10,000 Dollars and is used by 20th Century Fox amongst others.
Cheers,
JJ


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

Is THX processing and certs important as well?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I quite enjoy THX Post Processing and often use it. Some do not care for it, but it is nice to have it regardless.
In terms of Certification, I do find that THX Ultra2 Plus (which was the original THX Certification guidelines) is far more stringent and impressive than THX Select2 Plus. However, again you do get the Post Processing.
Cheers,
JJ


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

the pioneer vsx 1120 advertises THD .05% while everyone else on my list is at THD .08% will that make a difference?

Is weight always a indicating factor of higher quality? heavier always better? couldn't the factories get wise to that and simply add more dead weight?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

.03% THD will not make a difference. Weight can be a factor how in my opinion should be religated to the point of when your at an impass between two machines that are equal in all other aspects. Tony may disagree...)


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> The 807 also gets my vote, the weight of all 3 others listed is lighter and that is a clear indication that they skimped on the power supply.


Or that Onkyo just uses bigger heat sinks......:scratch:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

mandtra said:


> the pioneer vsx 1120 advertises THD .05% while everyone else on my list is at THD .08% will that make a difference?
> 
> Is weight always a indicating factor of higher quality? heavier always better? couldn't the factories get wise to that and simply add more dead weight?


Hello,
There was a time when Companies did things like that. However, in the "Information Age", AVR's are taken apart, scrutinized, and analyzed.

Things like Power Transformers, Heat Sinks, and Capacitors are places where many Brands often skimp to offer all of the Features while still maximizing profits. These are also the Components which weigh the most and have impact on the amount of continuous and peak power.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Andre said:


> .03% THD will not make a difference. Weight can be a factor how in my opinion should be religated to the point of when your at an impass between two machines that are equal in all other aspects. Tony may disagree...)


I do not disagree, but I will say that the power supply always in the past bench tests has been the sole factor in power output all channels driven. The lighter power supply in all receivers will mean higher distortion when all channels are going to a point that it will be very noticeable in quality of the sound. Most receivers drop down to less than half their rated output and that is bad if your receiver is being used for movies and your running it at near reference levels (75-95dbs)
The Onkyo 805 that I have for example uses a huge power supply and the receiver weighs 52lbs all channels driven in bench tests it still delivers 110watts per channel all 7 channels driven and its rated to do 130 watts. You can not say that for a receiver with near the same ratings but only weighs 30lbs.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Its all smoke and mirrors with power. Examples:

From the Onkyo 807 Manual: "135 watts minimum continuous power per channel, 8 ohm loads, *2 channels driven *" nowhere does it state the watts with ALL channels driven. An excellent power supply will double its rated power when your halve the ohm load. The unit doesn't list a rated power at 4 ohms (only dynamic power which is worthless stat). At 6ohm it is rated at 160 watts however the THD goes up a tad, still at a 6ohm load we should see 200watts (135/2= 67.5+135=200)

The Yamaha.
"Minimum RMS output for front, center, surround, surround back 20hz-20khz , 0.08 THD 8 ohms 95 watts" no stated RMS output at lower ohmage. Will it work a a lower ohmage, sure. Will the sound suffer, imho there is a reason they don't state tibits of info, nuf said.

You will say "no problem my Advents are 8 Ohm speakers" true they are rated at 8ohm nominal, however when pushed or during transients, that ohmage can and will drop.

Looking at owners manual specs for power the Pioneer is super.
"Continous power output (20hz to 20khz 8 ohms 0.08THD" and listing all the channels. Power goes up 40watts at 6ohms.

The Onkyo unit consumes almost twice the watts as the other two (750 vice 400), does this equate to more power to the speakers? Yes, does it equate to clean power to the speakers? Thats a different can of worms.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Not for nothing but that is why I run outboard amplification. I have power and headroom to spare and I don't have to worry about beating up equipment or anything overheating because I could never use the power I have unless I wanted to blow up all my speakers and that I don't want to do...:nono:


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I completely agree about the merits of outboard Amplification. That being said, some AVR's are capable of providing sufficient power for a HT. Much of this depends on the type of Speakers used and the size of the Room.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Absolutly, There are many recievers out there with plenty of power but I decided a couple of years ago that I wouldn't let a lower power rating be a big reason why I choose or don't choose an AVR. I just bought the Marantz SR5004 yesterday and it has 90w per channel but it was the other features and the price that fit the bill for me so haveing my amps already I didn't care about the power it had.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

with the speakers i'm currently using , and my room size . you have suggested the Onkyo 807 at $ 499 is there a second choice that may be close for less money. I'm not sure i want to spend $500


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

This Onkyo RC180 would be the best choice.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...fywwf5ybgwCjCVqHCjCdwwp&cpncode=22-78164462-2

Onkyo Tx-SR 706 $479

http://www.camerakings.com/ViewProduct.aspx?ID=12090907&l=Streetprices

Pioneer VSX-31 $459

http://www.camerakings.com/ViewProduct.aspx?ID=10714142&l=Streetprices

Yamaha RX-V765  $389

http://www.camerakings.com/ViewProduct.aspx?ID=10908007&l=Streetprices

Denon AVR-2310CI $489


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

what do you other guys think of the Onkyo rc180 ? and how does it compare to the Onkyo 807?


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

I have been reading reviews on A4L regarding refurb units (which is where i'm about to purchase from). and some are complaining that the refurbs do not look new and that there scratched up , and that A4L will not make it right??? is that true it may arrive all scratched up looking used?:unbelievable:


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## Kenobi (Aug 11, 2010)

I think it depends on what model you buy and when. I bought a TXNR 5007 refurb and it was a used unit that was slightly scratched on the side and back. But hey it is kinda expected as a refurb. There are times when manufacturers are trying to unload old stock before a new revision that are new but re-labeled as refurb so as not to compete with and upset resellers of the same products. If you happened to be lucky, that's what you'll get. I would call and at least ask if they know in advance what they'll be shipping.

Kenobi


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

What about HD radio tuners built in? Do any of the models i have listed or been suggested contain a HD radio tuner?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I believe they are all HD "ready" but none have it already built in at this price point


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

One of the forum staff members Jungle Jack has been buying from accessories4less several times for people and himself and has never had a bad unit or one that "looks" used. 
The RC180 is HD radio ready you just have to buy some sort of adapter. The 180 is a better unit than the 707 and has slightly more power per channel.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

mandtra said:


> I have been reading reviews on A4L regarding refurb units (which is where i'm about to purchase from). and some are complaining that the refurbs do not look new and that there scratched up , and that A4L will not make it right??? is that true it may arrive all scratched up looking used?:unbelievable:


I just purchased a refurb Marantz reciever from them. It should be here tommorrow. I will let you know how it looks.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

would this be a good speaker set for either the vsx-1120 or Onkyo 807 ? Polk Audio RM6750 for $229.00 or Klipsch HD 300 for $ 299.00 or could you suggest another?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

If your looking at a smallish speaker package like those, ever thought of the Onkyo HT-S7300? I can't say I have heard it, however the specs (Audyessy EQ, Dolby Prologic IIZ) look nice.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Well I got the Marantz today and for a refurb it is hard to tell that it is. It looks perfect, was packed fine but I would have done better, but everything seems like new. I plugged it in and it powers up and answers to the remote fine so I will get it hooked up tommorow and take it through it's paces and let you guy's know.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Congrats on the Marantz. They really make some of the most attractive AVR's on the Market.
I still think my former Marantz SR-19EX is one of the most beautiful AVR's I have ever seen. And of course they sound great too.
Cheers,
JJ
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## benbboy (Aug 29, 2010)

Hi,

I have an old Yamaha HTR - 5935 receiver that I got in an HTIB. I'm looking at some of the options that the author of this thread is. A large concern I have is music. Yamaha has a DSP called Music Enhancer. It makes it so that I can play a CD through my DVD player and yet hear the music through all channels, not just left/right/LFE. Does anyone know about pioneer/denon's DSPs and whether or not they offer this option?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Most receivers now have a listening mode called "all channel stereo" that is the same as the Yamaha's Music Enhancer.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Ya, I don't know what it is called by Marantz yet but my Pioneer had a mode called 7 channel stereo and if your haveing a party it really helps fill the room with sound without having to crank the volume.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Well I did a quick hookup with the Marantz and did some 2 channel listening this morning and I will say it sounded pretty good. I listened to some classic rock and some southern rock and some of Dark side of the moon and I noticed that my B+W's Like power. Although I got 95db spl at the LP with the reciever set at 0db it was definitley struggling to push the B+W's. I know it is 90w compared to 300w but I find that my Crown amps sound so much better with them. The Crown really brings out the best in my 801's and do it effortlessly makinf it sound fuller and with definitley more bottom. The reciever is working beautifully and the tuner is pulling in stations very well from the antenna. I love the remote. Easy to operate with allot of control over the sound with treble and bass settings right on there and a button on the side to turn on the back light so you can see the buttons in the dark. I will hook up all the speakers today sometime and get going with Audyssey.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

tcarcio said:


> Well I did a quick hookup with the Marantz and did some 2 channel listening this morning and I will say it sounded pretty good. I listened to some classic rock and some southern rock and some of Dark side of the moon and I noticed that my B+W's Like power. Although I got 95db spl at the LP with the reciever set at 0db it was definitley struggling to push the B+W's. I know it is 90w compared to 300w but I find that my Crown amps sound so much better with them. The Crown really brings out the best in my 801's and do it effortlessly makinf it sound fuller and with definitley more bottom. The reciever is working beautifully and the tuner is pulling in stations very well from the antenna. I love the remote. Easy to operate with allot of control over the sound with treble and bass settings right on there and a button on the side to turn on the back light so you can see the buttons in the dark. I will hook up all the speakers today sometime and get going with Audyssey.


The Marantz remotes are really nice and control everything.:T


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## caper26 (Sep 10, 2010)

Didn't read through ALL the posts, but you need to know what features you want, ie, for me, I HAD to have only 1 cable running to my TV and let my AVR do all the video & audio switching. That also means analog to digital conversion since the one cable would be HDMI. I own a Yamaha now, but would probably get a Denon next time. Cheers.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

Is there any updated info comparing the Audyssey , YPAO , & MCACC ? Is there a clear winner? Esp the newest versions of each avail such as on the Onkyo 808 , Yamaha 1065 , Pioneer 1120 ?

I have spent a great deal of time reading up on audyssey this past weekend and it seems to (flatten ) the sound , IMO this would be good for people with small areas , with someone sleeping in the next room etc ,and reduces the really loud parts in a movie , (explosions etc) so you can keep the volume lower and still hear the vocals , but at what cost? I have seen the graphs and it looks to me you lose quiet a bit of everything. Isn't the loud passages part of the experience??? and if you flatten or squash them completely , will it not weaken the overall experience???


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## benbboy (Aug 29, 2010)

mandtra said:


> Is there any updated info comparing the Audyssey , YPAO , & MCACC ? the newest versions of each avail in Onkyo 808 , Yamaha 1065 , Pioneer 1120 ?


I'm curious about this too. Between the yamaha and pioneer I'm solely interested in sound. Since they all seem to have their own version of a "music enhancer", comparing these systems would be great.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

anyone?


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

I just got the Denon AVR-1611 for 365.00.

I originally was looking @ the Yamaha 567 (i think it was that one) and decided on the Denon. It has all what I need, minus pre-outs. But if you are not looking to AMP the receiver, go for it. 
I notice also that the Denon has a much bigger power supply then the others.  Good deal if I was looking @ it from a PC perspective. lol


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

mandtra said:


> Is there any updated info comparing the Audyssey , YPAO , & MCACC ? Is there a clear winner? Esp the newest versions of each avail such as on the Onkyo 808 , Yamaha 1065 , Pioneer 1120 ?
> 
> I have spent a great deal of time reading up on audyssey this past weekend and it seems to (flatten ) the sound , IMO this would be good for people with small areas , with someone sleeping in the next room etc ,and reduces the really loud parts in a movie , (explosions etc) so you can keep the volume lower and still hear the vocals , but at what cost? I have seen the graphs and it looks to me you lose quiet a bit of everything. Isn't the loud passages part of the experience??? and if you flatten or squash them completely , will it not weaken the overall experience???





mandtra said:


> anyone?


After using nearly all the versions of different EQ's in AVR's and standalone units Audyssey is IMO the best so far, compared to the others mentioned.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

recruit said:


> After using nearly all the versions of different EQ's in AVR's and standalone units Audyssey is IMO the best so far, compared to the others mentioned.


I've got Audyssy and it does a very nice job of evening things out, I do not use it most of the time but it is nice sounding.:T


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## benbboy (Aug 29, 2010)

I've heard things about audyessy's ability to work well with subwoofers. Some people have complained that it keeps the volume up way too high or way too low. Does anyone know about the ability to keep audyessy and the other programs from messing with the subwoofers levels and crossovers?


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

It's surprising how little information there is comparing , I really thought there would be more. I have the Onkyo 807 but have not, set it up yet .


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