# Dual VS-18.1s and Dayton Amp



## AVrebel (Jun 5, 2012)

This was my original posting which is up on cht's forum. 05-16-2012

I was starting to look to my next sub upgrade a few years ago and was planning to go with either duals from Epik at the time. Either the Castle or Knight.... I prefer the ported sound and liked the numbers I was seeing. I'm not sure why they stopped building them. My only guess is that it is cheaper and easier to do sealed and lower shipping costs.

Looking around now. I looked at options from Rythmik, SVS, HSU, Outlaw, JTR, ED, and CHT. I finally decided on CHT due to the following factors:

ported 

I prefer the sound over sealed. The others offer this too.


performance/price ratio

From what I've gathered, I would not be able to get this level of performance unless I increased my budget. I could get similar options from others. Dual Cap 1000s with an amp come to mind, but that is a chunk more than I want to spend. I could also go dual VTF-15h, but I dont' think that would give me enough of what I want and not to mention being more expensive.

CHT was the top choice in this dept.


simple

It's two boxes with subs and a separate amp. I don't have to worry about getting another plate amp that might fit in the future. If the driver blows, I could always drop in another with similar parameters or better. I can change the amp... the list goes on. I don't think anything will go wrong with the equipment, but even if Craig's company fell off of the Earth, I would still have plenty of options without worrying about getting proprietary components to make things work again.


size

The dimensions of these subs 22X22X40 is almost exactly the size I was goint to build myself going DIY route.


convenience

I could've built these things myself, but I don't have the time. I highly doubt I would be able to finish them as well either. Having built many boxes in the past, the lack of MDF dust is a huge plus.


reputation

This was a tough one for me. I've read positive and negative things about CHT. I also read many of Craig's reviews in the past...his shootout of many subs sticks out the most. I know he has experience with many of the different products and has applied both objective and subjective methods when reviewing them. 

I know some people (various posters in other forums) are unhappy because some measurements have not been done by certain people (Ricci's testing methods comes to mind as well as the data-bass site) 

Update: I hear this Ricci test will be happening soon :T :clap:. 

I would love to see these tests done also when things align for all of the parties involved. I've read reasonings from all around and have concluded that this was not needed for me to make my decision. I've seen enough tests from various sources and other owners' experiences to give myself enough reassurance that this sub system would be a good product.

I've also read about some issues which have occuring in various GTGs and shootouts. I'm sure I don't have all of the details about what has occured with the amps/subs/people involved. I know people are subjective, finicky, and sometimes fanatical... especially about their hobbies. I'm sure there is some truth in the mountains of things I've read. I don't know, since I wasn't there. 

As a final check, I called CHT and talked directly with Craig. This was a constructive and informative discussion about the products and options available to me. He wasn't pushy and didn't sling dirt about any competitors. 

Having done my research, I felt I knew what I was getting into and decided to take the plunge.

As I write this, my VS-18.1s and amp should be arriving at my home from R&L shipping. I'll post more later.


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## AVrebel (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Dual 18.1s and Dayton Amp*

More of my ramblings from cht's forum:

When it comes to my preference to sealed vs ported, it is definitely a subjective thing. I think it is the efficiency of the design. I am willing to go larger on the box for that benefit.

I built many systems as a stereo installer in the past using different brands of subs. My favorite brand of subs back in the late 90's was definitely JL without a doubt. They always had the best quality sound regardless of box design it seemed IMO. 

I built iso-loaded, sealed, and ported variants. They all sounded pretty "good", but I always found myself enjoying the ported sound better. I personally ran with trio of 12W6s and later 10W6s in ported boxes in my various vehicles. I did enjoy a iso-loaded ported designs I put into vehicles. They got the benefits of a ported box in almost half the space. They had to pay for it with double the drivers and amplification however. Trunk space was a valuble commodity.

Funny thing was the fact that the 12s and 10s measured nearly identically in my vehicle, but the sound of the 12s seemed better to my ears. I don't have any objective data to prove this one though as they seemingly measured the same.

Could I tell the difference in a blind test between sealed and ported...??? I would like to say yes, but I would probably end up eating those words.. If we changed the comparison to include the context of equal drivers with equal power, and no EQing, I think the difference would be night and day. I think a ported system normally sounds more "flat" before any EQ is applied compared to sealed. I'm talking about pure clean input signal with no DSP of any kind. The ported system will unload under the tuned frequency, but this is why I chose a design with a tuning below 20hz. I believe the tests showed the tuning around 17hz for the VS-18.1. Thats good enough for me, though I know some enjoy even more down low. 

Another factor in this decision was the fact the ported variants seemed to give more output than what I could achieve with equivalently priced sealed variants. It would be nice if a sealed sub on the same power with a smaller box could produce the same level of output as a larger ported sub, but I have yet to see that happen. Even the LMS-5400 requires gads more power and a bit of EQ to achieve the nice low end output levels. Dual 18.2s would be nice, but would require double the amplification and they cost more per unit. I also would prefer this system to stay within the 15 amp limit of my circuit.

Maybe this sheds a bit more light on my personal preference for ported subs. Maybe its not so much the sound as it is the efficiency of the design and how that translates to me spending less money :spend::rant::spend:


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## AVrebel (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Dual 18.1s and Dayton Amp*

This is another post from 5/16/2012

Just finished a light listening session. I was running 2 klipsch rw-12ds along with 4 12s in an older AAL2230 set before. My mains are a set of monitor audio silver 5is.

The difference is night and day. I took the six 12s offline and engaged the vs-18.1s. After a bit of tuning, my music became much more clear. The bass was obviously better, but they seem to blend very well with the 5is on the mid/upper bass. The vocals and guitar which were not bad before got even better.

On to movies. I threw in LOTR fellowship and the entire intro was like a new experience. There was an entire range of very low bass which the klipsch never even attempted to produce. Did I mention no port chuffing...:rant: (Klipsch sure did) With the VS-18.1s, no hint of it  . The depth added to the vocals and other sounds made the sound much more realistic. It was easy to forget about the speakers as it should be.

I'm quite sure output will not be a problem. Glad I went duals as I feel it evens the response in my room. I'm pleased with my purchase :clap:


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## AVrebel (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Dual 18.1s and Dayton Amp*

I've added a quick shot of my setup. A bit grainy due to low light.
Mains: Monitor Audio Silver 5is
Center: Energy XL-C2
Receiver: Pioneer VSX-1015TX
TV: Samsung 58" Plasma
Subs: Dual VS-18.1s + Dayton SA 1000

Other: Dual Klipsch RW-12Ds (off-line)


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## AVrebel (Jun 5, 2012)

*Re: Dual 18.1s and Dayton Amp*

Does anyone know how to change a thread title?:dontknow: I would like to change 18.1 to VS-18.1.:rant:


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

Done. :T


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## AVrebel (Jun 5, 2012)

tesseract said:


> Done. :T



:thankyou:::woohoo::thankyou::fireworks1::fireworks2::fireworks3::yourock: utstanding:


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