# Speaker recommendation for low end HT



## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

Hi, just registered yesterday, a guy I work with is on this board.

I'm looking to get a good setup but for a budget.

My current setup:

Olevia 32" LCD HDTV
A Shuttle PC for HTPC
Wii
PS2
Cambridge Soundworks DTT3500 5.1

The CS setup works OK, but it just started developing an issue with the analog sound input, sound is scratchy. I've tried different cables too. There's no problem with the optical digital input from the PC though.

I have the PC, Wii, and PS2 connected to the HDTV via HDMI and component (shared cable for the Wii and PS2), and the audio output of the HDTV going to the CS receiver.

So my usage is for DVDs, games, TV, and some music.

I've been wanting to get a real receiver and nice big speakers for quite a while, so I finally ordered an Onkyo TX-SR674S for $318 from Amazon (actually coming Crutchfield warehouse.) Hopefully it'll get here tomorrow.

What I'm wondering is what to do for speakers. I suppose I could hold out with the existing 5.1 Cambridge speakers since they're not bad, but would prefer to have 2 big speakers up front and maybe use the CS speakers for surrounds.

Originally I thought I'd stay within a budget of $500, but seeing as how I've already spent about $400 on the receiver, shipping, speaker wire and an extra HDMI cable, that's obviously not enough. I could hold off a while though like I said, so it's not urgent.

I went to a local audio shop, New England Hi-Fi, and the guy there recommended a few set-ups:

Paradigm Atom V5
Klipsch RB51
Onkyo SKS-HT540 (complete 7.1 speaker package.)

I listened to them all and they're pretty good, although the first 2 are bookshelves and would need to buy stands, making them about the same as a floorstander I think, and on the Onkyo, well I already have a set of decent surrounds.

Personally, I think I'd prefer some floorstanders. I've been envious of my father's NHTs for a long time. 

My current setup is in the living room, which is I think 16x12 or so (not sure exactly), and I have a swiveling media cabinet that's just wide enough for the TV on top and some shelves inside for the equipment. Right now I just have the small CS speakers attached to the sides of the cabinet. There's really no place to put bookshelves.

Like I said, it's not urgent that I buy speakers soon, I can wait until I have a better budget, but I'm definitely not looking to be spending thousands. I'd say, at the most, I can justify say $500 for speakers.


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

Welcome to the Shack!

Speakers probably introduce more "personality" into a system than any other component as even identical speakers can be made to sound different depending on voicing of the crossover. What I'm getting at; before anyone can offer meaningful recommendations, it would help you and us if you did a little auditioning to get a feel for what you like the sound of. Otherwise, everyone's basically recommending something that fits their tastes and your budget. :duh:

Speaking of budget. How many speakers are you looking to get for that $500? Just front L/R or L/R/C?

For my .02. Polk is in the process of releasing a new generation of RTiA speakers, so there are major deals to be had on the outgoing RTi series. Disclaimer: I use RTi38s all around in my theater room. AV123 was/is? having some major blowout pricing on both their Rocket and X lines. SVS has a couple of 7.0 sets in their B-stock section for $550ish, but they're not towers. I'm sure others will chime in soon with their recommendations.

-Brent


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

Yeah, I know what you're saying about personal taste. I might look into the home audition thing, if they allow it.

I'd like to get L/R floorstanders/towers.

I don't remember if that store I went to had Polk or not, they had Paradigm and Klipsch though.


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## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

If you're on a tight budget then you should try to find some second-hand speakers. I would do that if i were you. You can easily get a pair of speakers for half the price of new ones.

Klipsch is a really good choice if you like dynamic speakers. They're awesome for movies :T and very good for a low/medium 2-channel system.

In northern Europe, we can buy speakers from manufacturers like Dynavoice and XTZ.
http://www.dynavoice-av.com/index.php3?menuid=1
http://www.xtz.se/english/index.html 
They have an unbeatable quality/price ratio here. I don't know if you can find them where you live.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

Looks like those companies are only in Sweden.


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## Rodny Alvarez (Apr 25, 2006)

You need to check out the Boston Acoustics VR2 ( I love Boston :daydream
@ onecall for $249.97 each free shipping (3 day fedex):T

http://www.onecall.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=20791


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Definitive Technology makes some great speakers for small budgets... I'd look at ProCinema for a $500 budget or if you can wait and increase spending a bit the small bipolar towers with built in subs. They are just 'fun' IMO :bigsmile:


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

You can get the Infinity Primus Theater Pack for $280. This includes four P142s and a PC240 center channel. Then purchase an Infinity PS28 8" powered sub woofer for $180. A complete 5.1 system for $460 that will sound as good or better than what you've listed.

Or you can do much better with four Infinity Primus P152s for $190, a Infinity Primus PC250 for $150, and the Infinity PS28 8" powered sub woofer for $180. A better complete 5.1 system than above for $520.

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/404infinity/
http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1007inf/index.html

If you are indeed just looking for some good floorstanders to build off of then the Infinity Primus P362 for $460 a pair should get a listen.
http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/605infinity/index.html


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## Tiny (Oct 17, 2007)

There are a few options you haven't yet touched on. First there are a number of sound card options which have either digital coax or toslink out on them. Diamong makes a 7.1 version with7.1 for about $35.00 Not the best sound card but a pretty good one and works much better than any other $35 dollar solution you can choose. Secondly depending on the sound card you are currently using many have the option of using a coax to 1/8" line that usually plugs into the center channel out on the sound card. I used to use one made by philips and though it was specified as a portable dvd to coax in on your reciever, it worked really for PC to receiver, until I accidentally cut it in half. It was cheap though less than $20.

As far as good budget speakers go try going to your local freecycle.org and simply asking for vintage audio gear. My mains are 15" pioneer floor standers and I got them for free, I got my current rear and surrounds 15" floor standers and 12" 3 ways for free as well. If you live in/near a major metropolitan area or are willing pay for shipping try ebay or craigslist for subs. These are just a few of my budget suggestions and also try hitting the classified listing on any one of a number of audio boards, I have purchased with really good results from at least a dozen of them over the past year.


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## Guest (Nov 13, 2007)

As far as the PC, it's a Shuttle with NForce3 chipset, currently using the optical output. Unfortunately it seems to only do stereo, and I have to use the 2nd analog output for the rear channels, not sure if it sends 5.1 Dolby when playing a movie or not. I know that using the Nvidia control panel, I'm unable to send sound to the center and sub directly. I usually put the Creative receiver in "movie" mode to get the center channel.

I do have a 7.1 channel sound card, Chaintech AV710, in a drawer somewhere I could try.

I'll check out those ideas above for speakers, though. Thanks, guys!

UPDATE: Got my Onkyo receiver and took it home, but haven't had enough time to connect and test yet.

One thing I noticed is it doesn't have outputs for an unpowered sub, only pre-out. Since I'll be using the Creative 5.1 speakers for now, how should I connect the sub???


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

On a budget, you could try a pair of Klipsch RF52's with RB51's or RS42's for surrounds. I wouldn't forgo the center channel as it carries 80% of a movie. A RC52 would match up nice. Then I guess when you can afford it down the road you should grab a subwoofer if you want the real experience.


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## Guest (Nov 14, 2007)

So I spent the last few hours trying to connect it, but I've run into a serious issue.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ents/7374-onkyo-tx-sr674s-help.html#post61394

Help please!


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## Scuba Diver (Sep 28, 2007)

Welcome to the Shack.

Its ok to ask for others input, but never purchase anything without listening to it first. What sounds great to you may not sound good to the guy next to you. 

I never recommend bringing a buddy to the speaker store. Just go and listen by yourself and let your ears be the judge. 

Good luck.


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

Since you admired your Dad's NHTs (and why not; they're great speakers), I'd have a look at the new NHT Classic 4's or 3's if you can't afford the 4's which are floorstanders. Make no mistake, the 3's, and when you save add a nice little NHT sub will deliver the goods in spades. The 4's of course will do it now, but are a little pricey (and worth every penny +). If you look carefully online, you will find some decent discounts on NHT, and some used ones at audiogon.
Good luck...
Cheers,
Konky.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

If you don't want to spend thousand on speakers ... here is a link of speakers that you can get thru this forum store or directly from the company .... http://fluance.com/ ... I have the bipolar for surround and I think they sound good ... but I don't know about the front speakers :huh::huh: ... I think they will sound good too ... a set of 5 speakers starts at $200


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Have a look at ebay, there are some great deals to be had there. I saw some Mission 764i tower speakers for $500 They are great speakers for that price, New they would have cost you well over $1500


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

> .... I saw some Mission 764i tower speakers for $500 They are great speakers for that price, New they would have cost you well over $1500


But the $500 is the starting BID ...:huh::hide:


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

I don't trust Fluance. For those prices, the quality of components must be ****. I'm saying that not having heard them, but I do know what it would cost for me to pick up drivers and caps, etc. and the cost of the wood myself, even in bulk. Of course, "****" is all relative....

A friend of mine at work recently asked a similar question. I told him for the money, buying Internet-direct is really the best thing to do. Used on Craigslist or Audiogon are good choices too. Here's the company list I sent him, for ID speakers:

AV123
Axiom Audio
Ascend Acoustics

My personal comments to him were that I would not recommend speakers from Hsu, SVSound, Emotiva, Outlaw Audio, or Elemental Designs over the ones from those three companies. This is based on what I've read in reviews and measurements, mostly, or lack of the same because the speakers are too new or just don't seem to get scientific reviews or measurements done.

Of course, if you're looking at Audiogon, you can find non-ID speakers at great prices too.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

> ... I don't trust Fluance. For those prices, the quality of components must be ****...


Are you telling me that I have **** speakers addle::boxer::foottap::bigsmile:


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## E-A-G-L-E-S (Sep 15, 2007)

I have a nice Energy front stage for sale here in your budget.


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## Guest (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm pretty much settled on returning the Onkyo TX-SR674 to Amazon, and getting a SR605 and perhaps a pair of Klipsch RF-10s (or maybe RB-51s if I can get some stands) from the local shop. It'll cost me more than I had originally planned on, but at least if something goes wrong, I get a 4 year warranty, and repairs/returns/etc. are only about a 30 minute drive away.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

salvasol said:


> But the $500 is the starting BID ...:huh::hide:


Keep an eye on it it may not get much activity, You never know.:shh:


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

salvasol said:


> Are you telling me that I have **** speakers addle::boxer::foottap::bigsmile:


 Well, you could always do some measurements and prove me wrong.

I forgot about Aperion Audio. They're also decent ID speakers in this price range.


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

Ummm, lemme see here...5 speakers brand new for $200.00! Now, who could possibly doubt their quality? I have had the misfortune of hearing them...BUT: They did produce sound; very bad sound, but sound none the less! 
Do yourself a favor and wait until you can afford a quality brand; it will be well worth the wait...By the way THAT brand is NOT alone in selling shall we say less than stellar products direct on the net, but to be fair: Anyone expecting stellar for $200.00 is in a word "dreaming"!!!
Cheers,
Konky.


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## Captain Crunch (Apr 2, 2007)

I'll add to the mix too.

SVS

Paradigm


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## Captain Crunch (Apr 2, 2007)

I'll add to the mix too.

SVS

Paradigm

ED


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

> Anyone expecting stellar for $200.00 is in a word "dreaming"!!!


I agree 100% ... you get what you paid for. :yes::yes:



> ... They did produce sound; very bad sound, but sound none the less! ...By the way THAT brand is NOT alone in selling shall we say less than stellar products direct on the net ...


I can't say anything about the sound because every person is different, you also need to listen a good speakers to compare ... and in my case I'm using this as surround and you know how hard they work ... and you're right, there is a lot of brands that sells less than stellar products ... I think if we want excellent speakers we need to spend no less than 1K ... :yes:


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

Not so Salvasol...you can get excellent speakers for much less than $1k, BUT you must be willing to accept frequency and dynamic restrictions if you're going to buy new. In other words, they'll be bookshelves (mostly) and as such will lack the last octave or two on the bottom end and also will not take well to being pushed with a ton of power. But, what they will do and in some cases do VERY well is deliver great upper bass, mids and highs and some of them with phenomenal imaging and no ringing, harsh highs, bloated artificial bass etc. The NHT Classic 3 which is a 3 way available under a $1k per pair (as seen on eBay) is truly phenomenal for the money. However, I heard some new small $279.99 a pair PSBs last week that were incredible also...especially for that kind of money. In addition there are the Epos, and Energy, Paradigm, ERA and quite a number of other reputable firms that build large, expensive, full-range speakers as well that try (and for the most part succeed) to give some "starter" customers a good taste of what quality is all about without having to spend a fortune. Salvasol...got a NHT dealer close? Go and listen to the Classic 3s (and 4s if you really wanna have a great time) and let me know what you think. Their size is diminutive, but their sound is anything but...
Good luck to all "newbies" in trying to sort out speakers, but remember; stay away if you never ever heard of them or can't find any reviews, and especially if the deal sounds too good to be true (even if they do have a "very cool" web site). I know that's the oldest adage in the book, but it remains true. If someone says they can sell you something that firms that build tens of thousands of pairs of speakers a year cannot deliver for that price; what do you think the chances are that the small little internet guy, or someone in a van can? Truth is; he can't...and forget about the old "I don't have the overhead they do" rap...it's an illusion at best. I also would not discount buying used. If you buy from Audiogon (can't say the same blanket wise for eBay, although you can pick up deals there too), the chances that what you buy will appear and play for all intents and purposes like new are excellent. I and many friends of mine have bought a LOT of equipment from Audiogon and never once has any piece been other than exactly as described...or better. Lots of people buy and sell audio and video equipment like seasonal clothing and their loss is your gain and in truth many are very wealthy and don't care. All they know is the new stuff they ordered is coming and they need to get rid of the old. Audiogon (and Videogon) attract mostly audiophiles (and videophiles respectively) and they have starter gear all the way up to EgglestonWorks and Wilson Audio "top of the planet" gear. Simply exercise good common sense as in get a phone number (more than one if possible) and talk with the seller for a little bit...Everyone into audio loves to talk about their stuff, so don't worry they won't mind and if they do...move on. I have seen phenomenal deals on there for Vandersteen 2CE speakers (excellent floorstanders) which even new are probably the best bang for the buck on the planet. I would be a little more cautious with "moving parts" pieces, but amps and speakers etc. Go for it; there are some excellent deals to be had, especially if budget is a primary concern! :T
Cheers,
Konky.


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## Guest (Nov 18, 2007)

:bigsmile:

Bought myself a Harmon Kardon AVR 247 (instead of the Onkyo) and a pair of Klipsch RF-10s. I'M LOVING IT!

Still using the old Creatives for center and surrounds, and no sub. I think the RF-10s give plenty of bass for my needs, really. I'll get the other speakers sometime next year.

Only a few glitches though:

1) When connected directly to the TV, the PC could output the LCD's native 1360x768 resolution with no problem. But passing through the AVR, I get a black screen, unless I switch to either 1280x720 (720p) or 1920x1080 (1080i). I get the AVR doesn't support non-standard HDTV resolutions? This results in text being slightly less clear than before.

2) When using the Wii, it won't scale the screen to fill it, there's a black border all around, unless I use the TV's scaling function, but that crops edges out.

3) I still can't get multi-channel with the PC, it's a Shuttle SN95G5 with Nforce3 audio, currerntly using S-PDIF connection. Before the AVR, I could get the rear speakers using analog plus the digital (for front). Is there a way to set that up, or should I try another sound card?

4) There's no remote control code for the Olevia TV. Is it possible some other brand is compatible? Mine is a 232V.

5) I couldn't use the auto speakers set up since I don't have a sub, but that's not a big deal.

Overall though, I'm really enjoying this new set up!


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Congrats on the purchase! Those RF-10's should give you years of great entertainment. Good info on the HTPC not passing through the AVR in native resolution. That's something I never would have thought of. Are you using HDMI or component connections? How is your wii connected?


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2007)

thxgoon said:


> Congrats on the purchase! Those RF-10's should give you years of great entertainment. Good info on the HTPC not passing through the AVR in native resolution. That's something I never would have thought of. Are you using HDMI or component connections? How is your wii connected?


HDMI for PC, and AVR to TV, and PS2 and Wii are component.

I've done some tweaking, and found that the AVR has it's out video image controls (sharpness, brightness, contrast). I turned the sharpness all the way down and now the text is much better looking. I still need to have the TV in "Aspect" or "Fullscreen" rather than 1:1 though, to fill the screen.

Also, I found out about the audio out on the PC. It'll only output 2 channel PCM over S/PDIF or Coaxial, but you can set your DVD player software to output AC3/DTS directly to the S/PDIF, so when playing a DVD that has 5.1 encoded, the AVR will auto switch to Dolby Digital.

So that's fine with me, other than DVDs, I play music (stereo) and downloaded and streaming TV shows (probably just stereo too.)


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I think you have the correct software/codecs to output AC3 over the SPDIF connection. 

Here's a link to a good codec/program calls AC3Filter.
http://ac3filter.net/guides/ac3filter_1_01a_doc


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## Guest (Nov 19, 2007)

For DVD playing on WinMCE, I use Nvidia's DVD decoder. It'll play DVDs in Media Player and Media Center. To configure for S/PDIF passthrough, start playing a movie in Media Player. You'll see the Nvidia player's icon on the systray. Right click and go to properties, then go to the Audio tab, and S/PDIF passthrough is right there.

From then on, all DVDs playing in Media Player or Media Center will use passthrough, and the AVR should register Dolby Digital when doing so.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Does your AVR have an aspect ration screen setting? It sounds to me like it is re-scaling everything down to 4:3 which is why you have to readjust your tv. You shouldn't have to do this. Also make sure that all of your sources are 16:9 as well. It may never map your htpc 1:1 but should pass through the same aspect ratio I'd think. Does it have a resolution out option?


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2007)

Josuah said:


> I don't trust Fluance. For those prices, the quality of components must be ****. I'm saying that not having heard them, but I do know what it would cost for me to pick up drivers and caps, etc. and the cost of the wood myself, even in bulk. Of course, "****" is all relative....
> 
> A friend of mine at work recently asked a similar question. I told him for the money, buying Internet-direct is really the best thing to do. Used on Craigslist or Audiogon are good choices too. Here's the company list I sent him, for ID speakers:
> 
> ...


Thanks for the links! Have you looked at those rocket RS 450's lately? 500 skins for the pair? I have read some very positive remarks regarding these rockets. They look GREAT. Now, if I can talk my warden into dropping five bills, I can use the old Polk Rt16's for kindling wood. Of the three links which do you think sound overall best? Have you owned all of these?

Thanks again!:yay:


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## Guest (Nov 21, 2007)

capran said:


> :bigsmile:
> 
> Bought myself a Harmon Kardon AVR 247 (instead of the Onkyo) and a pair of Klipsch RF-10s. I'M LOVING IT!
> 
> ...


I was actually looking at the AVR 247 today. I have an old pro logic Onkyo (THX butt kicker) but OLD. I am particularly interested in the 247's automatic set up function. Does it work to your satisfaction or would it be better to manually set up speakers? Also does it have two sub outs? And are the sub's controllable by the remote? I am considering those aformentioned rockets to complete the front end. How do you all feel about this combo? I have two sunfire subs and some polk m5's in the rear which still sound very good. My sub's don't really ever get a decent work out but I'll tell you, they ROCK!

Thanks!:neener:


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

I have not heard any speakers from Axiom, or Ascend, and only the Reference line from AV123. So I couldn't suggest one over the other for you in particular. However, Axiom's frequency measurements show a roll off as things approach 20kHz, which is one reason I chose not to look at them seriously.

Also, there is currently a sale going on at AV123 so for $500 you can get the Reference 1 bookshelf speakers. You might be interested in those over the RS 450's. However, by all accounts they sound very different, and for home theater the Rockets might be a better choice.

I have never heard anything bad about the Ascend speakers. For the money, I have never seen a negative opinion about them.


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