# Tweeter preferences



## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

Hey,
My listening room contains speakers of varying tweeter types. One speaker has a Silk dome tweeter, the other a metal dome. The speakers are Infinity Primus 150's and NHT SB-2's. Very different speakers from eachother for many different reasons...I do however prefer the highs of the Primus :dontknow: although the NHT does just about everything else better (minus midbass punch) especially in the areas of vocals and soundstage.

Does anyone here tend to favor one type of tweeter over others? If so, why? My personal preference may be towards the Silk-domes.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

I’d have to say I prefer silks, too. The metals domes I’ve heard definitely sound nice, but they don’t quite do it for me.

Regards,
Wayne


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## GregBe (Apr 20, 2006)

There are some definite trends in how a particular tweeter material will sound, but there are no absolutes. I think most people will say that soft domes sound smoother than metal, which I mostly agree with, but I recently upgraded from M&K (soft dome) to Monitor Audio (metal), and the M&K's were definitely the brighter speaker.

I think you need to look at the design of the entire speaker.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I really like the FST ribbons in my RM30's...











> "Free swinging tweeter" is the latest true-ribbon tweeter used throughout VMPS line. It is one of the best tweeters available today. It's advantages over previous spiral ribbon tweeters were easily audible and cost is not overly prohibitive. We use custom version (8 Ohm, custom transformer and diaphragm) of similarly looking Aurum Cantus tweeter. The FST tweeter has 30 degrees of vertical dispersion, less than 25 mm dome tweeter, but does not become directional at 11 kHz like a 25 mm dome. Horizontal dispersion is broad and even up to 25 kHz.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I have to go along with Greg,.... depends on the speaker as a whole. I have had silk dome tweeters in speakers that I found shrill/harsh and metal in others that have been smooth as,... well,... silk  and some with polymer domes that just seem to disappear, and not in the good way.


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

Agreed, one has to look at the speaker design as a whole. Crossover design/range etc. But to make things even simpler, throw these variables out of consideration for a moment. Think about which speaker you tend to favor, and which tweeter these speakers utilize. This is the crux of the question being asked 

I find Polk speakers to be very bright (monitor series only, and would these qualify as silk dome tweeters? Kinda hypocritical on my part , the RTI's had the characteristic of "silk domishness" to it's highs that I liked), but of course I've only heard them through a Denon on Direct 2-channel mode. So even the source material and amplification come into play among other things. Among those other things being the acoustical signature of the listening space.

Sonnie im jealous of your tweeters :blink:

But yeah, all variables aside, do any of you find that you may favor one tweeter over another as far as taste?


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Well, in more general terms I tend to favor a silk dome overall,.... but for some 2 channel listening (jazz, classical, stuff with lots of horns) I kinda prefer metal, they seem to capture something that just seems to be missing from the soft domes. If that makes any sense.


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## Danny (May 3, 2006)

I personally like to use ribbon tweeters. Sound really good, esp with a good crossover setting in a well designed system.


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## russ.will (May 10, 2006)

For any silk dome non-believers, try spending some time with a Dynaudio speaker sporting the Esotec or anything with a Scanspeak Revelator tweeter. Dispersion is handled by crossover integration with other drivers, but to my ears, nothing provides the clarity of treble with the ability to remain unexcited by sibilant recordings like these two. They're not cheap, but then quality never is and neither are the speakers they're used in. But with particuler respect to the Esotar, I've yet to hear anything that provides the sense of air around live acoustic recordings at realist levels like the Esotar can. If you have one of these (then you've got Dynaudios) and are suffering from a lack of openess and sparkle, then you know that something else in the audio chain is lacking. Period.

What do the Danes know that the rest of us don't?

Russell


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

Yeah, a little disclaimer that this comment should not be taken as a wide generalization...

It seems that Silkdomes just have an "airyness" or refinement to their tonal quality that metaldomes just aren't able to produce. The SB-2 isn't the best at imaging, in fact this was addressed in the newer NHT line but it isn't what I would call a bright speaker...Ok I lost my train of thought i'll continue this post when I remember..:blush:


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## Guest (May 26, 2006)

i personally like the the inverted dome tweeters the best hard to find people who use it anymore since epicure and genesis used them alot and i love how clear they are all winslow burhoes design. if anyone dont know what im talking about goto ebay and type in epicure or epi you will see some inverted airspring tweeter i think you can type that at yahoo as well and you will come up with info on them.


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## Guest (Jul 25, 2006)

I really like and stringly dislike tweeters made of similar materials. I general I have to agree with some of the above generalizations--silk domes seem to have an airyness and a softness about them and metal dome tweeters tend to have a brighter crisper sound to them. However, as has been stated, I have heard some metal dome tweeters that sound very laid back and not at all bright (b&W's come to mind exact opposite of a Boston Acoustic vr's to me which was very bright) and I have heard some silk domed speakers that are very bright (again Boston acoustics come to mind with their cr series also the rti series from polk seem a bit bright to me) There are many examples of both in both directions. I think it all depends the speaker system as a whole, with dozens of potential contributing factors not just the material of the tweeter.


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## OvalNut (Jul 18, 2006)

... and don't forget Vifa ring radiator tweeters. Sweet, though I've only ever seen them in 4 ohm speakers.


Tim
:drive:


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## russ.will (May 10, 2006)

Do you know, I thought I'd made my mind up on this one and then I spent some time with the inverted metal domes made by Focal JM Lab. Don't know if you get them in the States, but I really hope you can. 

Have a look HERE for the technological spiel, but both I and friend who reviews for TNT Audio (and he owns speakers with Dynaudio Esotar silk tweeters) have been absolutely stunned by the refinement and resolving details of JM Lab metal tweeters.

We were reviewing two passive pre-amps from the same company. One had a resistor ladder volume control and the other had a custom built transformer volume control. In essence, we were reviewing volume controls. Now, he invites me along as a strict AV buff (with a long standing hi-fi background) because I am unusually sceptical - I am his reality check. Let face itt, how exciting can volume pots get?

The first surprise was the staggering difference between two volume controls - the transformer was so much more transparent, it wasn't funny. The second surprise was that the difference was resolved through my fathers JM Lab Chorus 716 speakers. These are a two and a half way £500 floor standers of modest preportions. Bare in mind, that most things that retail in the States for $500 cost £500 over here (when the $ to £ exchange rate means you pay $280 from our perspective). We thought we were giving him a good night in, but turned into a serious session very quickly, once we'd got the measure of the 716s.

Bear in mind these sport the absolute cheapest form of the tweeter, in basically aluminium, whilst the top end Utopias sport pure Beryllium.

At no point did we suffer harshness or spitty treble and as noted, the resolving power was exceptional. We could even tell the difference between regular splash cymbals and riveted cymbals. We couldn't tell if the rivets were steel or copper though.

Russell

PS. I'm taking the mickey about the rivet material, but that's all.


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## F1 fan (Jul 6, 2006)

I have a fondness for metal domes and currently use SEAS 27TBFC/G.It's a little sweety.


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## Brian Bunge (Apr 21, 2006)

Dispersion is also largely due to the diameter of the tweeter as well as the crossover. A 3/4" dome naturally has better dispersion than a 1" or 1.125" dome tweeter. Also, the "airiness" that so many subscribe to as a refinement of sound is actually due to distortion. Now I realize that many find this pleasing, as do those who like what the distortion of tube amps do to the sound. I just wanted to make people aware of some of these things. 

As far as my own preferences, I really like a nice metal dome as well as a nice soft dome. The soft domes which I like the most are the Seas 27TDFC units. As far as metal domes, the Dayton RS28A is my current favorite, although I have not heard some of the higher end Scan-Speak metal domes. Oh, and the "spittiness" that you hear from some metal domes is largely a product of the diffusers that are used to help tame the off axis response of the tweeters.


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

I learned alot from that post Brian


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## laserman (Jun 9, 2006)

Yes, Brian said a lot in two short paragraphs. From my experience, liking or disliking a particular style of tweeter and/or the overall speaker comes down to the design 98% of the time. The other 2%, I dislike Piezo Tweeters in every application they have been used in, but YMMV. It’s truly amazing what the right parts in the XO can do to a relatively inexpensive driver. And, what mediocre or wrong parts can do to a relatively expensive driver. Another factor is how well a cabinet is made can make a significant difference, especially from the lower midrange and down.

I have been doing some vetting of bookshelf/monitor speakers for a friend and have found overall sound and prices all over the map. I’m vetting Sonus Faber, Merlin, VonSchweikert, SVS, NHT, NOLA, AV123, Polk, etc…and those cheap Insignia Speaker @ BB. I am very impressed with some and disappointed in most. If my friend had deep pockets I would definitely go with the Sonus Faber or Merlin’s but I was instructed to be a “value shopper”. Dang, to be constrained by how one spends another’s money. :R Wait a NY minute, I’m married and deal with it regularly. :dontknow: :nono: 

This weekend I am going to audition some again and add some new ones. A friend is going to bring over a moded Insignia plus a non-moded pair so I can experience what can be done to a relatively cheap speaker when you attack deficient areas. I am also going to have a pair of AV123 x-ls speakers delivered to see how they hold up to a VonSchweikert VR1. 

Getting back to the instant topic…it’s mostly about proper speaker design and then it gets into the electronics they are hooked up to.


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

Those insignia's seem like a steal at their price alone. I'd love experience what a good crossover can do for the, especially in the midrange where they seem to have the most trouble out of the box.

After building my Natalie P's i've completely changed my stance on generalizing tweeters. The Natalie P utilizes the RS28a metal dome tweeter, and manages to control the highs VERY well. IMO the RS28a is much smoother and articulate than the silk dome infinity tweeters.


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## nm2285 (Aug 4, 2006)

laserman said:


> This weekend I am going to audition some again and add some new ones. A friend is going to bring over a moded Insignia plus a non-moded pair so I can experience what can be done to a relatively cheap speaker when you attack deficient areas. I am also going to have a pair of AV123 x-ls speakers delivered to see how they hold up to a VonSchweikert VR1.



Definately let us know your opinions on that - where they were modified and how great an effect it had.


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## laserman (Jun 9, 2006)

This weekend I continued my audition of bookshelf speakers by listening to:

*Insignia 6.5 – unmoded
Insignia 6.5 – moded with GR package

Tannoy SL8R

RBH 61-SE

NHT 2* (not the newest version, dealer didn’t get shipment yet)

(listened recently to the Van Schweikert VR-1 (nice but very room critical and now RAM is offering a $795 mod to a $1500 speaker ?????? Also listened to the Polk LS9i which had an unacceptable bump in the lower midrange). Still waiting for delivery of the AV123 x-ls speakers.

The MSRP ranges from $50 to $1200 (using old price for the VR-1).

I like a detailed yet warm sounding speaker. One that presents a wide and deep sound stage without coming too forward and the sweet spot has to be wide. Seating in this particular setup is about 11’ from the speakers, with the speakers spaced 5 feet apart center to center. The top three are in my system, for my friend’s taste and mine, at modestly high volumes in a 2.1 setup:

*1. Insignia 6.5 moded by a friend, because I’m all thumbs.
2. RBH 61-SE
3. NHT 2*

First, the Insignia’s have been written and talked about ad nauseam, but I had to give them a whirl. Out of the box…not very good. Burned for about 40 hours on relatively high volume…not bad. Big sound stage, good overall tonal balance, nice lower midrange...but they have their limits. These speakers are really nice if you use them for background music or in an apartment setting where volume doesn’t go higher than normal conversation. Once you go past that loudness, they start to show their true price point and are not acceptable to my ears. The sound stage gets compressed and the upper frequencies start to get fuzzy sounding. The moded ones are a different story.

I picked the Insignia 6.5 moded as my #1 pick because it did so many things to my liking. Case in point, very wide and deep sound stage, horns and voices sounded detailed yet warm, and the lower mid-bass became well defined and tighter than the stock pair. These are in no way the final word on bookshelf speakers. There could be more detail, separation of instruments and a blacker overall soundstage. But for a total moded price of $150 plus some sweat equity, a speaker worthy of serious consideration.

The RBH 61-SE had the best detail and tonality in the upper frequencies, can be played loud, have great laid back sound stage but something was lacking in the mid bass area. The musical notes were defined below say 2000hz to 60hz but they lacked weight and presence at higher volumes. They are rear ported and would probably do better closer to the front wall in this region. In the application they were set up in, they will be about 30 inches from the front wall. We really liked these speakers a lot, but at $1000 for the pair we thought a little to pricey since they were lacking in a key area.

The NHT 2’s were good overall but did get a little fuzzy in detail on the highs when the volume was turned up. The new ones may have corrected this due to retooling the front baffle and some XO tweaks.

The biggest disappointment was the Tannoy SL8R’s. It used a co-axial driver similar in design to the Insignia’s but at a MSRP of 20X’s the price of the Insignia’s. We thought they would have the Insignia’s for lunch but it was not to be. For us the Tannoy’s were overly detailed and pushed the sound stage into your face. We tried different things to offset this but were unsuccessful. These were boxed up and never to be played again. My friend said they might do better in a near-field application further apart than we had them.

For anyone who is interested in Moding the Insignia’s, here are three options:

http://www.soundenvironments.org/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=70

http://www.speakerdesign.net/midrange_tweaks/insignia/insignia_woofer.html

http://www.gr-research.com/insignia.htm

Again, the ones I listened to had the GR mods done to them. My friend said it took about 4 hours of actual time to perform and most of that was using the Plumber’s Putty.

Next, is to wait for the x-ls speakers to show up and compare them to a couple of the others.

YMMV, pick the poison you like and please take my opinion as just that and perform your own audition. 

PS I may decide to keep the unmoded pair and perform the mod just for the fun of it. :scratch: Lol.


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

Well laserman, you've contributed a lot to this thread! Thanks a lot.

A good crossover that compensates well for it's baffle and any other baffle step related to ideal placing of the speaker comes a long long way in making speakers sound ThaT much better.

I've been curious about those AV123 X-ls bookshelfs. @ Their price they seem like a steal considering the parts used...i am looking forward to your follow-up laserman, :T


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## laserman (Jun 9, 2006)

*x-ls speakers*

I received my x-ls about 10 days ago and loved the sound and would have been happy with them in stock form. However, since I had read Danny's comments about being able to squeeze a little more from them ,http://av123forum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14712, I decided to purchase the No-Rez, bypass caps and bypass resistors from Danny. I am in no way a DIYer (just ask Danny), but I felt this project was well within my circle of ability. Yesterday, I performed the mod. :reading: :jump: The No-Rez took a while since I don't have a table saw and used a utility knife and a good heavy usage pair of scissors to cut the required pieces and affix them to the cabinet.

Danny said the caps and resistors will need a good 50 hours of burn in but after 20 hours of white noise on moderately high volume (my spouse said she thought it was raining outside when she awake this morning. lol) I had to give them a sneak listen. So about an hour ago, I used my cd to test differences and noticed an improvement over all in the upper midrange of the speakers. The 1.8 ohm bypass resistor is suppose to lower the resistance of the tweeter and thereby increasing overall output of the tweeter by 1-1 1/2 db. The bypass .1 uF Sonicaps also seemed to give me a cleaner less smeared sound in that upper midrange area. The No-Rez dampened the cabinet. I will put white noise on for another 24 hours and see if it gets even better. If it stays exactly the way it is now, I will be happy with the little additional expense and sweat equity. These speakers are truly a bargain whether in stock form or moded. :T :fireworks2: :fireworks2:


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## Exocer (Apr 19, 2006)

Awesome, just awesome. keep us up to date on that


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## southworth (Oct 7, 2006)

Factors to consider are the overall build quilaity/features of the driver and the ipmlimentation of the crossover by the designer. I've heard some good soft domes /metal domes as well as some bad ones of the same types. A well built crossover can do wonders with the right driver(s). I myself prefer a soft dome. Had some Polk Audio Monitor 7B's a long time ago that I really liked a lot. They had 1" textile dome tweeters.


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## shaolin95 (Oct 22, 2006)

I personally favor silk ones but I am new convert to ribbon tweeters. In any case, they are not all created equal so for me its hard to say I will like this one over the other one without demoing them.


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## Guest (Jan 22, 2007)

Personally I'd have to say that the metal dome tweeter sounds a little brighter & perhaps a little more detailed then the soft dome. But theres not a great deal of difference in it:jiggy:


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## majorloser (May 25, 2006)

I have to vote for metal dome tweeters.

****, if I win the lottery all of my drivers wil be metal when I buy a set of Canton Vento Ref 1's :hail:


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

A resurrection :bigsmile: 

Popped in the Chicago soundtrack tonight,... no particular reason. Reminded me of this old thread because, I listened to it on my PC and the speakers have 1" aluminum dome tweeters. Last time I really "listened" to this CD was with my Monitor Audio Silver 5i's,... which really shined with this soundtrack,.... (mid bass and horns) something about metal tweeters just seems to bring to life a myriad of horns that, as much as I love the silk domes, they really just fall short when listening to something like this. As much as I hate to admit it,... my MA Silver 5i's just totally blew away my RBH Sound 1266-SE's with this soundtrack. As do my old RBH Sound MC-4C,.... my PC speakers.

Not saying the 1266-SE are poor performers,....cause they are awesome,... but with certain music/soundtracks,.... the metal tweeters really can't be beat.


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## keelay (Dec 11, 2008)

I tend to lean toward metal tweeters. I personally just built a pair of Natalie P's and the RS28a aluminum tweeter is bright ebough, but laid back and never harsh. It definitely has presence and openess. Some tweeters find a very nice balance.

Kyle


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