# Do I need a HD DVD player?



## SteveB (Oct 20, 2006)

I'm still new to this home theater stuff as far as equipment goes. I've bought everything I've got based on information and reviews I've read on the internet. This site has been a big help to me. 
I have an Oppo OPDV971H that I'm happy with but always want to better my set-up. Would it be that much of an upgrade to get a HD DVD player? I see the new Toshiba is out and the price is reasonable based on initial pricing of HD players. Get one, pass or wait for the next generation? 
BTW.. my TV isn't an issue.

Thanks,
Steve


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Sure, if you are hooked on high definition sources then by all means get a HD DVD player. The Toshiba HD-A2 is only $329.99 with free shipping via the Electronics Store here at the Shack (the order is fullfilled by Amazon.com). You can't beat the price and the 1080i feed via DVI-D or component video on your 42" Plasma TV. 

Be prepared for possible problems with a HDMI to DVI connection. Amazon is very good on returns. 

The component video connection is sure to work -- but playing old SD DVD's will not upconvert on component video unless they are "backups" with the CSS copy protection removed. No problem upconverting with a digital (DVI-D using HDCP) connection.


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## Rodny Alvarez (Apr 25, 2006)

I purchased a Toshiba HD-XA2 and I'm pretty happy with it!, no problems at all.............
:T http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...d-dvd-player-599-free-shipping.html#post30401


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## SteveB (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been looking around at these some more, reviews seem to be mixed. Found this at CNet:
We looked at the same sequence on the HD-A1 and the XA2 had the edge, although at some points the HD-A1 outperformed the XA2. We also compared it to the Oppo DV-981HD on this same sequence, and the DV-981HD had a definitive edge. So, while the upconversion on the HD-XA2 is very good, we still felt that the DV-981HD was significantly better.
So, $599 for the Toshiba for $299 for the Oppo?
OK, another noob question, since my Oppo, the 971H, upconverts to 1080i, would it work with HD DVDs at all? I'm guessing no but have to ask anyway.

Edit: At Costco I saw a Toshiba HD-D2 for $325 I think it was, anyone have any info on that player?
Here it is at Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/Toshiba-Player-Including-Format-RWPlayback/dp/B000P1RG2Y


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## Rodny Alvarez (Apr 25, 2006)

SteveB said:


> I've been looking around at these some more, reviews seem to be mixed. Found this at CNet:
> We looked at the same sequence on the HD-A1 and the XA2 had the edge, although at some points the HD-A1 outperformed the XA2. We also compared it to the Oppo DV-981HD on this same sequence, and the DV-981HD had a definitive edge. So, while the upconversion on the HD-XA2 is very good, we still felt that the DV-981HD was significantly better.
> So, $599 for the Toshiba for $299 for the Oppo?
> OK, another noob question, since my Oppo, the 971H, upconverts to 1080i, would it work with HD DVDs at all? I'm guessing no but have to ask anyway.


 The Oppo will not play HD DVDs!
Do you want the player just for up converting or you want it to play HD DVDs??? :bigsmile:


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

SteveB said:


> At Costco I saw a Toshiba HD-D2 for $325 I think it was, anyone have any info on that player?


It is the same thing as a HD-A2. That is a very good price to go along with Costco's superb return policy!

If SD DVD upconversion is of primary concern then you need a $540ish HD-XA2 with the Silicon Image Reon chip.

BTW, CNET is somewhat Blu-ray biased IMHO. Look for other reviews on the XA2's upconversion quality.


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## SteveB (Oct 20, 2006)

Update and more questions:
I was wrong on the HD-D2 price but not by much, it's $349.95. So, based on that I can get the HD-XA2 for about $200 more. Is the newer unit worth the extra bucks? 
Neither my receiver nor TV have HDMI inputs so that feature wouldn't help me at this point. I'm wondering if I can just keep my Oppo and get the HD-D2 for HD DVDs.
One more thing I'm not understanding. If I use component output for video do I not get full benefit of the HD resolution? Seems like I read that somewhere. I would be using component for video and optical for audio.
Thanks for any more input.
Steve


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

SteveB said:


> If I use component output for video do I not get full benefit of the HD resolution? Seems like I read that somewhere.


Sorry . You would have to "backup" most SD DVD's so there would be no CSS protection on the "backups". It is a goofy industry policy to not allow upconversion of SD DVD's with component video. Makes using a PC to do "backups" using something like DVDFab Decrypter (use Google to find it) a necessity. But the benefit is that you can then use DVD Shrink to re-author it and skip the intro commercials, select the desired audio track, etc. "Backups" can be so much nicer for movie night.


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## SteveB (Oct 20, 2006)

LOL, there's always something else to have to buy. I don't have a DVD burner in my pc. I did go ahead and download that software. Are all burners about the same?


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

SteveB said:


> LOL, there's always something else to have to buy. I don't have a DVD burner in my pc. I did go ahead and download that software. Are all burners about the same?


They have gotten better. Make sure you get a Double Layer (DL) burner. I have been very happy with a Plextor PX-750A. Using it with Nero software. It helps to bit set the book type to DVD-ROM for better compatiblity.


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## SteveB (Oct 20, 2006)

:explode: I had made up my mind to get the HD-X2A and I go back to the Shack store and the price has gone up. Guess I'll wait some more now.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

I'm wondering if I should try my hand at HD-DVD as well. I have a 1080p display and an available HDMI or DVI input. My current upscaling dvd player does a great job, so there isn't much motivation in terms of upscaling SD dvds, the driving force for the purchase would be solely for playing HD DVDs. I'm hesitant because it's still pretty early in the format war and I'd prefer not to get stuck with a $300-$500 piece of equipment that can only play a handful of movies down the road. I'm also a bit confused why the new Toshiba player can't do 1080p, only 1080i? It doesn't really matter, as my display would make it 1080p, but I'd prefer all the processing to be done on one side or the other. 

For those that have HD DVD players, would you honestly say it was worth the purchase, or looking back, would you have preferred to have waited a bit longer until the price stabilizes at ~$200 for a great player and there is a larger library to choose from? Also, would you say that the picture quality of HD DVDs on average is better than the best HD cable you have seen? The Mayweather vs Delahoya fight on HBO HD was probably the best HD content I have seen to date in terms of PQ, beating out Planet Earth and Jay Leno (too bad the fight stunk). Can I expect all HD DVDs to look at least that good, or is the mastering and bit rates not up to that level yet?

I guess if I won the Shack's dvd contest that might help sway my opinion :daydream::whistling::R


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## Jerm357 (May 23, 2006)

Hey Steve, have you look at amazon lately? They have the Toshiba HD-A2 selling for $250 from TigerDirect. This sounds like a pretty good deal to me. Ive realy had my eye on one of these but maybe your looking to a higher end model.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I personally believe it was worth it for me. I stepped up to the XA2 from the A1, but I can't really tell a difference in picture quality. It is excellent to me and it does a marvelous job on SD upconversion. I could be totally wrong, but I just don't see HD-DVD going away. I believe both formats will hang in there. 

Of course the Shack store is an Amazon store front... so be sure to check us out if you decide to buy. :whistling:


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## SteveB (Oct 20, 2006)

I've been watching prices on both units, There are two main reasons for getting the XA2. I understand that the XA2 does a much better job of upconverting SD. Also, audio connections will work better for me on the XA2.
If I had a HDMI connection or another DVI I would probably get the A2 for video but as I understand it you don't get the HD audio unless you use HDMI. The only audio option I would have is fiber optic. What I would do with the A2 is use my Oppo for SD and the A2 for HD. But. I would have to drop to component for the Oppo and I don't want to loose the picture quality that I have using DVI.
With the XA2 I would have 5.1 analog connections which would give me the hd sound (correct?), I could use a HDMI/DVI for video. I would just move the Oppo to the bedroom but that's another thread.
Now, if anyone can correct any of my thinking please do. I would love to save $200 if I can get the same picture and audio quality with the A2. I have a pretty good apartment theater set-up and just want to get the best bang for my buck. To help I have a NEC plasma monitor and a HK AVR 435 receiver.
Thanks guys.


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

SteveB said:


> I've been watching prices on both units, There are two main reasons for getting the XA2. I understand that the XA2 does a much better job of up-converting SD. Also, audio connections will work better for me on the XA2.
> If I had a HDMI connection or another DVI I would probably get the A2 for video but as I understand it you don't get the HD audio unless you use HDMI. The only audio option I would have is fiber optic. What I would do with the A2 is use my Oppo for SD and the A2 for HD. But. I would have to drop to component for the Oppo and I don't want to loose the picture quality that I have using DVI.
> With the XA2 I would have 5.1 analog connections which would give me the hd sound (correct?), I could use a HDMI/DVI for video. I would just move the Oppo to the bedroom but that's another thread.
> Now, if anyone can correct any of my thinking please do. I would love to save $200 if I can get the same picture and audio quality with the A2. I have a pretty good apartment theater set-up and just want to get the best bang for my buck. To help I have a NEC plasma monitor and a HK AVR 435 receiver.
> Thanks guys.


I have the HD A2 and a PS3 for my Bluray player. I just heard that the PS3 finally got a firmware update that enables SDVD up-conversion, so I'll have to check that out to see if it's true.

The HD A2 is a very very nice all around player. I was toying with the idea of getting the XA2, but we're also remodeling our house so I decided to go with the A2 for now and when the price drops even further on the XA2, or when the 3rd gen comes out I'll pick up one then and move the A2 to our bedroom.

My brother came to visit, and he was very interested in seeing my setup. He has an older but excellent JVC 56" rear CRT projection HDTV that always amazed me with its picture quality. I went with the 55" Sony SXRD 1080p, the PS3, and a HD A2 to round things out. I kept the HDTV size down because I also have a 106" screen above it on the wall. Anyway... the first disc we spun was Casino Royal in BD format and he was blown away. We then put in T2 (which I am disappointed it doesn't have the Director's cut extended version) and he still liked the image quality, but it wasn't quite as good as Casino Royal. Next we put in the standard definition version of T2 in the HD A2 and he started smiling again... it up-converted and looked just as good as the BD version. There were a few scenes that looked better on the BD version, but overall it up-converted very nicely on the A2. 

We played around for the next few days trying all kinds of different content on both players. He brought up his entire HD DVD collection as well as a bunch of great standard def DVDs, which was good because he was really familiar with how they look on his setup. I then popped a disc in my Samsung DVD player and it looked pretty good to both of us... then I dropped the hammer on him... The Samsung was connected via composite video, the worse you can try, and the SXRD still showed an outstanding picture. (Note: Yes the Samsung is now connected with component now since I rewired my entire system- I had a cable go bad and just grab the composite cable as a temp fix) So our conclusion was that yes the A2 does a spectacular job at up-converting (I can only imagine what the XA2 looks like) but the HDTV is also a big player in things too. 

I only have 5.1 audio right now and an older, but work horse of an A/V receiver, the JVC RX-884V (fantastic receiver in its day and even now it holds its own sound wise). I have two Toslink inputs and one digital coaxial input. I run the A2 and PS3 over fiber, and the Samsung HD931 over component. The sound is very very good. So good and realistic that the other night while watching a movie a phone rang in one scene and my wife got up to answer our phone. So what I am saying is yes True HD will probably blow my socks off once I get a new receiver, but don't count out 5.1 either.

Also the prices on the A2's are dropping like a rock. I really expect to see them under $200 for Black Friday.

If you are on the fence, you can't go wrong with the A2 in my opinion. The price is right and coming down every week it seems and it is a nice entry level player that's for sure. I have not had one skip or stutter with it and it has never froze. I do like the PS3, and it is a very fast BD player, but to be honest most of the movies I like are in HD DVD format. Plus with the up-conversion we found we use it more than the Bluray player and it makes watching our old standard def movie collection like watching them for the first time again. Oh, if you like older movies, throw in an old Cary Grant flick in black and white and site back and get ready to have your breath taken away! 

My two cents is if you are uncertain, wait on the XA2 unless you just have the extra money and that's not an issue. Next go through all the movies out there in both HD and Bluray and make a list of what YOU like and then see which format has the most movies you like to watch. Unless you're going format neutral, it really boils down to what you like to see.

When I looked at the full list for both formats, Bluray did have a slight edge in total titles, but it really wasn't as big as people say or think. More important though is that the movies that I personally like are more HD DVD titles. So for me it wouldn't matter if BD had three times the titles, if I personally don't like them, then volume means nothing to me when it comes to enjoying a movie.

Some movies are format exclusive, we all know that. I was actually surprised when I went through a list of all HD DVD content and all Bluray content. When you break things down like this it makes it much clearer which format you will enjoy the best.

There were a total of 87 high definition movies on my 'wish list'. I say wish list because after making that list I went through the tier ratings and some had pretty bad transfers and the general comments were they did not look any better than an up-converted SDVD copy of the same movie, so ultimately those movies were removed from the 'list'.

I found that there were 23 movies that I really like that are HD DVD exclusive, while there were only 14 that were Bluray exclusive. Then there were 19 that are on both formats. The rest are movies that haven't come out yet and some of the studios in that list have done both formats, so those are a wait and see situation.

So I looked at the exclusives as well as the 19 that are in both formats and that made 42 movies I love and would be able to watch on an HD DVD player, and Bluray came out to 33 movies. It wasn't a blowout, but HD DVD did have the edge. For some people this list may be totally reversed and for what they like BD may have a bigger list, so they should go with a Bluray player then.

Personally I'm surprised more people don't do this before making their decision. Both have outstanding picture quality from what I have seen, yes there is a price difference between them... but in the end isn't the real factor what movies a person likes? I'm format neutral as I mentioned, but before you take the plunge, at least go through the movie lists of what's out there like I mention and then make your decision on a player. As far as your opening post and question... Yes I think a high def player is definitely worth it.


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

SteveCallas said:


> I'm also a bit confused why the new Toshiba player can't do 1080p, only 1080i? It doesn't really matter, as my display would make it 1080p, but I'd prefer all the processing to be done on one side or the other.


1080p really only makes an appreciable difference if it is 1080p24 (straight from the HD optical) out to a display that can accept 1080p24 as an input and display refresh at an exact multiple (24, 48, 72, 96, 120, etc). Actually it is not 24 Hz but a scoach less. Some of the expensive front projecters and the 50" Pioneer plasma can accept 24Hz. Your Westy does 60 Hz video refresh like my Sceptre so 1080p really is not a big deal since the internal 3:2 pull-up shown work ok in our displays.

Newer displays are coming out this summer that do 120 Hz refresh. Unfortunately it seems that not all do a direct 5x of 24 Hz input to 120 Hz. 

The XA2 is supposed to have a 1080p24 Hz firmware upgrade at the end of summer. The Sony PS3 can now do 1080p24 now with the 1.8 firmware.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

> then I dropped the hammer on him... The Samsung was connected via composite video, the worse you can try, and the SXRD still showed an outstanding picture. (Note: Yes the Samsung is now connected with component now since I rewired my entire system- I had a cable go bad and just grab the composite cable as a temp fix) So our conclusion was that yes the A2 does a spectacular job at up-converting (I can only imagine what the XA2 looks like) but the HDTV is also a big player in things too.


A digital display will have its own chipset for scaling, and some of them can be pretty good. My Westy for example uses basically the same Genesis/Faroudja combo that the Oppo dvd player uses. What I find strange in your experiment was that the picture would have been nonanamorphic over composite, so it shouldn't have even been close.

As for the HD Audio over HDMI, my receiver can't do that, so I'd just be using optical. This purchase would be purely for better picture quality.


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## mdrums (Jan 1, 2007)

I have a PS3 and I did the software upgrade to version 1.8 so I can do the SD DVD up conversion.


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## Tommy (Apr 20, 2006)

As an owner of the HD-A1 HD DVD player and the Pannasonic Blu-ray player I think both are great players and most would depend on which movies you like since there is a format split. I have a list of all the released movies if you care to look.

I definetly recommend the HD DVD player at current prices, I think this is a great addition to any HT room.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

:hissyfit: Argh, the more seriously I consider things and the more I look into it, the more and more frustrated I get at the whole prospect. I'm not gonna repurchase any existing SD DVD movies I have in hi def, so I'd only be interested in future titles, and it's impossible to guess what studio is going to make films I will want to purchase. I don't want to buy two different players, as then the bad people will have "won". Guess I just gotta keep sitting back and watching from the sidelines for now.


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## Tommy (Apr 20, 2006)

SteveCallas said:


> :hissyfit: Argh, the more seriously I consider things and the more I look into it, the more and more frustrated I get at the whole prospect. I'm not gonna repurchase any existing SD DVD movies I have in hi def, so I'd only be interested in future titles, and it's impossible to guess what studio is going to make films I will want to purchase. I don't want to buy two different players, as then the bad people will have "won". Guess I just gotta keep sitting back and watching from the sidelines for now.


Hi Steve;

My advice, especially for anyone that may be hessitant because of this war, buy the HD player!

It is so cheap right now that Amazon is listing the HD-A2 at $289 plus you can get 5-7 free HD movies (another $100 - $150 saved) for that little you cant go wrong even if you use it only as an upconverter for DVDs. I think the $100 off ends tomorrow though...

At this point you could either rent all your HD DVD titles if your worried about purchases. 

Additionally HD has the combo discs for new movies which means even if in the future the format dies, you can still play it in your dvd player too.

For all my complaining about the format war I would hate the thought of ever having to go back to watching DVDs again. Im just to hooked on the hi def...


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

I still don't see a 'winner' in the format war any time soon. 

If anyone has noticed, it goes in waves... Toshiba drops prices and starts giving away movies (which I still haven't received mine after 2 months or so) and their sales went through the roof. Now Panasonic is giving away 5 free right in the box, and the new BD players are coming out so Sony and BD is riding a high right now. I suspect that Toshiba will do something at the end of July/August or perhaps a major price drop for Black Friday... so I see it as a constant back and forth battle.

For anyone on the fence, the A2 is probably the safest option money wise. Like Tommy said, a person could rent their HD content if they are afraid of investing money in owning the movies. The A2 is an excellent upconverting DVD player so if HD DVD does lose, you will still enjoy your existing SDVD library upscaled to 1080i.

The PS3 would be my recommendation for anyone wanting to get into the BD arena but isn't sure because of the 'format war'. I personally and honestly feel that even though it is $600, it has more power and plays better than the other Bluray players in the same price bracket. Now that it upconverts SDVDs (and does a very very good job at it too) the only thing really prohibitive about it to people hesitant is the price. It may be twice the price of the A2, but it also plays PS2 and PS3 games and you can connect external USB hard drives to it that have movies stored for the PS3 to function as a media server. That last item is exactly what I am going to do with all my TV series that are on DVD. So granted it costs more, but it also does a little more too. Again if Bluray goes bust, it can still be used as a media server, SDVD upconverting unit, as well as a game console.

One thing I have been thinking is if/when one format does send up the white flag... since I am format neutral I should be able to snatch up the movies in that format as they go on clearance sale! Same mindset goes for anyone that buys either format and it unfortunately ends up being the one that loses... you will be able to buy movies in that format for next to nothing... so in that sense it's kind of a win win scenario- at least until the player dies.


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## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

SteveCallas said:


> :hissyfit: Argh, the more seriously I consider things and the more I look into it, the more and more frustrated I get at the whole prospect. I'm not gonna repurchase any existing SD DVD movies I have in hi def, so I'd only be interested in future titles, and it's impossible to guess what studio is going to make films I will want to purchase. I don't want to buy two different players, as then the bad people will have "won". Guess I just gotta keep sitting back and watching from the sidelines for now.


I normally don't rebuy the same movie either if I already have it on SDVD, but there are a couple of exceptions. Kingdom of Heaven is one I double dipped on and the BD version is absolutely stunning. Madmax The Road Warrior is far superior than the original DVD that was put out. (My laser disc copy was better than that original DVD release!)

I mentioned the SDVD T2 Extreme DVD, to me it looks just as good as the Bluray version, plus it's the extended movie version and the BD disc isn't. What I have decided to do is rent the movie from NetFlix first and if it is a winner and far superior to upconverting the SDVD version, I'll add it to my list of ones to buy.

I still want and need my SDVD library because we watch a lot of movies upstairs too and I don't have any high def player in the bedroom. I know I know... there are those dang combo flippy discs. I'm not sure why, but for some reason I just don't like them.


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