# Bitstream or PCM?



## Bluedoggy (Feb 8, 2013)

Can you kind chaps help with these photo's I snapped. Just setting up a Panasonic Blu ray player connected to my Onkyo receiver. I want the best audio qaulity and not sure about the settings on these menu's? Bitstream or PCM? What is Bitstream and PCM? In layman's terms!

I was trying to spam a link and got caught!


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## Bluedoggy (Feb 8, 2013)

Here is the other image


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Always "bitstream" if your using a HDMI connection. :T
And leave dynamic compression off as well as any other video enhancements provided.


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## Bluedoggy (Feb 8, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Always "bitstream" if your using a HDMI connection. :T
> And leave dynamic compression off as well as any other video enhancements provided.


Thanks tonyvdb

www.paulgreenwoodart.com


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

I've not done any comparisons between bitstream (decoding in the AVR) vs PCM (decoding in the player). It's my understanding that there should be little if any difference sonically. However, I prefer to bitstream simply because if I do it that way, my AVR will tell me what codec is coming in. That way I know for sure that I'm getting the lossless soundtrack and not the lossy.


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

When you "bitstream" the audio (the bits stream off the disc to the receiver with no manipulation) you will not be able to hear the menu sounds or any "secondary audio" tracks, which are used by some commentaries. With modern players, there's no audible difference between having the receiver do the decoding and having the player do it, except for the lights on the receiver.


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## kingpin748 (Feb 20, 2013)

selden said:


> When you "bitstream" the audio (the bits stream off the disc to the receiver with no manipulation) you will not be able to hear the menu sounds or any "secondary audio" tracks, which are used by some commentaries. With modern players, there's no audible difference between having the receiver do the decoding and having the player do it, except for the lights on the receiver.


Are you saying my $2000 Denon 4520 is going to sound the same as my $200 Samsung Bluray?


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

When you pay premium prices for modern audio/video equipment, the expense is no longer in the digital components: they're mostly what are called "already solved problems". You're primarily paying for other things -- like the quality of the physical construction and discrete components, the durability of the mechanical parts, the salaries of the engineers who designed it, whose logo is on the front panel, etc. 

You can't really compare a receiver like the AVR4520 with a BD player, though. They have quite different design goals. A more appropriate comparison would be between the $2000 Denon DBP-A100 universal disc player and the $200 Samsung player. That Denon player most likely will last quite a lot longer than the Samsung will, but for the discs they both can play, you won't be able to hear any difference between their digital outputs. Although their component parts are physically different, the algorithms they have to use to decode the audio and video data coming off the discs are the same. Sadly, given the rapid changes in the Blu-ray player marketplace, both in the encryption algorithms required by the studios and in non-disc functionality, the Denon player is going to lose value quickly. Denon has already reduced its list price dramatically: it used to be almost $3K.

Also, don't forget that the prices of limited-run high-end components have to include a larger fraction of overhead costs than do the prices of mass-produced products, just because there are so many fewer units being produced to recover comparable expenses. That's one of the reasons, for example, that the Marantz AV8801 costs so much more than the Denon AVR-4520, even though the primary difference between them (so far as audio is concerned) is that the 4520 includes amps but the 8801 doesn't. They expect to produce many more receivers than pre/pros.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

kingpin748 said:


> Are you saying my $2000 Denon 4520 is going to sound the same as my $200 Samsung Bluray?


Yup, there will be no audible difference between the two, even bluray video playback will be very close if not impossible to see a difference. As said above its the build quality (longevity) thats the big difference and in some cases upconversion of DVDs will be noticeable. You may also have more playback features like SACD.
Now comparing a $2000 player to a $70 player all bets are off.


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## kingpin748 (Feb 20, 2013)

I'm not sure I understand what's being said here. How can there not be any differences? I'm not sure how you're comparing an entry level bluray with a high end receiver. Are you saying just the processing of the channels?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

kingpin748 said:


> I'm not sure i understand what's being said here. How can there not be any differences? I'm not sure how your comparing am entry level bluray with a


A Bluray movie is digital and if sent to a 1080p display via HDMI the signal is unchanged and un altered. there should be no difference in quality between a $200 player and a $2000 player. where the change "may be noticeable" is in upconversion of DVDs and loading times. 
Standards in Mass production of Bluray players has given the consumer much better quality than what was available 5 years ago. The same goes for comparing a $3000 receiver and a $600 receiver. I can almost guarantee there will be no audible difference if levels are kept within its specifications.


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## kingpin748 (Feb 20, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> A Bluray movie is digital and if sent to a 1080p display via HDMI the signal is unchanged and un altered. there should be no difference in quality between a $200 player and a $2000 player. where the change "may be noticeable" is in upconversion of DVDs and loading times.
> Standards in Mass production of Bluray players has given the consumer much better quality than what was available 5 years ago. The same goes for comparing a $3000 receiver and a $600 receiver. I can almost guarantee there will be no audible difference if levels are kept within its specifications.


Ok, I think we're on the same page then. I've seen these arguments before but the receiver vs Bluray processing was confusing it for me.


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