# Source Loudspeaker Technologies, know them??



## rocksnap (Sep 9, 2010)

I am in the market of a new sub. I have a large room of about 15x35 with a vaulted ceiling. Hardly the optimum home theater room. But I am interested in a sub that will fill it up. Mostly for HT but also some music. I am liking the reviews of the JL f113 but am put off a bit by the price. Source L T's claim to fame is making and marketing their own so they can sell it well below a comparable speakers/price and have been making mid to hi end speakers for many years. Hey, if I could buy a JL type sub for half the price I would be all over it. Call me silly...!

All my other 7.1 speakers are Klipsch, mid to higher end models. Well, not the sub, which is why I am here asking for others who have listened to and have experience with Source product. I can get two of their upper end subs for the price of the JL. Which may not be a bad thing with the size of my room. From some reviews of the JL, it has been said that one f113 can be more dominate/directional in a particular side of a room since they are so strong. So some get two to balance it out. Yes, I know that subs are omni-directional so one should be ok, but...

I have combed the site here and haven't been able to find any info/users of Source LT. Perhaps since they are a smaller local company without any distribution/dealer network. Anyone have any experience with them?

Thanks!


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

http://sourcespeaker.com/Sublist-2.html

I haven't seen these before. Which sub are you interested in?


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## rocksnap (Sep 9, 2010)

Looking at the Source SW 12 DF ULT or the new HV/S 12/400. I believe this company gives a "similar" sound to other hi-end speakers. But being that there is no middleman they can sell at substantially less. So I will compare the HV/S series to the JL Fathom f series. Source has been making hi-end speakers for over 15 years. Their "Who we are" page is interesting reading. But being a small company with no large dealer network they seem to be unknown to most. I am having trouble finding anyone who has heard of them...

Their boxes are built like a tank. With bracing, spray on coatings inside etc... If you look at their SW 12 DF ULT sub there is a link that shows their ULT (Ultra Long Throw) woofer against a well respected competitions woofer. It looks like a Monster Truck against an econo truck.

I am thinking I would be more than happy with a Source sub but would really love to hear from someone who has one.


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## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

From a price/ performance point of view I suggest you compare the SW 12 DF ULT to other subs that are available. Regarding their comparison of the ULT (Ultra Long Throw) woofer against a well respected competitors woofer, that is misleading at best. That is not representative of what is currently available at that price point.

Here is their comparison:









and this is a SVS subwoofer:









The above subwoofer is from a SVS PB12-Plus DSP. It has a 800 watt amp that has variable tuning, Parametric EQ, sells for under $1400 and would easily outperform the Source in SPL and low end extension.

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-pb12plus.cfm

In no way an I making light of the SW 12 DF ULT, it is just my opinion that if you're willing to spend 
$1500 on a subwoofer you should get the best performance/value for your dollar. I strongly suggest you shop around.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I agree about the comparison pic being misleading as they are showing a driver from evidently a very low cost sub design.:nono:
I would also shop around abit, you may find a better value with more output and low end at a more reasonable price. I do however like the fact they are built here in the USA.:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Have you checked out Elemental Designs? they build some very high quality subs built like tanks at reasonable prices. Oh and they are also built here in the US.:T


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## rocksnap (Sep 9, 2010)

Yes, shop around is a good thing. I am looking here as to what is known to be popular. Then off to a retailer to do a touchy feely with product. Off to see a JL store locally where I am away doing some training. Going to a HT speciality store on my way home next week. Then, hopefully to the Source store at home in the near future. And perhaps a few others. I did see someones comparison on here of the JL f113 against a SVS they owned. Said the JL was a clear winner but the SVS was close. When you figure in the SVS was about half the cost of the JL... But I will spend IF i have to, to get what I am looking for. I am tired of trying to save a few pennies then not really happy with the outcome. I am hoping that what ever I get will last a while. More importantly, I will be happy with it. I have a cheap "stop gap" sub that I will be happy to be rid of. Thanks for your input!


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## rocksnap (Sep 9, 2010)

Elemental Designs? Never heard of them but will look them up, thanks!


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I think they will have a couple subs that may impress you. Plus they pay for shipping.:T


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## rocksnap (Sep 9, 2010)

How important is DB in a sub. The Source subs are upward of 115-128db with a 300-400w amp. As compared to the JL f113 is rated at 2500w and 121db. The Elements run 1300w, db not listed. It would seem the Source is a bit more efficient? Less power, more db...


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## Ricci (May 23, 2007)

I do not think that you would be getting the best bang for your buck with any of this companies subs. IMHO competitive subs from SVS, HSU, ED and Epik in the same price range will substantially outperform their subs. Bass extension, sensitivity and output is a relatively easy thing to gauge due to something called Hoffmans iron law, which limits the amount of efficiency that can be gotten from a certain enclosure size. These subs have many flags if you know what to look for. The driver motor looks exactly like a certain budget car audio driver that has a lot of effort in bling and less in performance. The giveaways are the fancy frame and the motor that has effort made to make it look bigger than it is. Also they list the vc diameter as 2" which while not bad in itself it does indicate a driver with a smaller, less heavy duty motor and lower power handling. For instance the SVS and JL audio models in this price range are using heavy 4 and 8 layer 3" vc's with a deep winding for more excursion and are a much heavier more massive piece all around. 

When looking at subs the biggest indicators for how powerful they might be are: #1 the enclosure size. Their $1500 sub is using an enclosure that is roughly the same size as the JL F113 and it is ported so it is probably tuned really high and lacks low end extension plus the port area is really small which will cause early vent compression. No efficiency advantage there. #2 is cone area. The sub has a 12" driver which is smaller than the 13.5" driver in the JL giving up about 25% in cone area. This is a disadvantage requiring the smaller driver to move further to displace the same amount of air. #3 is the amplifier power rating. The JL has a mammoth 2,700w rated amplifier which is a tick over 34dbw. It needs this huge amp because the enclosure is so tiny...IOW low efficiency. The SLT has a 400w amp that is only 26dbw and that gives an 8db output advantage to the F113 just based on amplifier power alone. The F113 is handicapped by it's enclosure size. If you move to a bigger sub like the SVS PB13 Ultra or an ED A7-450 the advantages further mount up.


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## rocksnap (Sep 9, 2010)

A lot of good info there, thanks much! I have been out of the hi-fedility game for more than a few years. I probably know enough about the newer things to get myself in trouble... I don't mind spending dollars where I need to for a great sub. There are limited hi-end stereo shops in my area but we do have a few. I will make a few visits to get some hands on. 

I found a (hopefully unbiased) review of the JL f113 which in all fairness was from 2006, but was also listed as the best product of the year. But the reviewer has the SVS PB12-Plus/2 as his reference sub. Here is a quote from the reviewer - "As for sound, the JL played deeper, louder, and tighter than the SVS with any material I chose. But this statement doesn’t apply only to the SVS PB12-Plus/2; it applies to every other active sub I’ve heard, at any price. The JL Audio Fathom f113 has become my new reference subwoofer." 

Again, this was from 2006 so much probably has changed by now. I think I would be totally satisfied with the JL f113 but need, and will check out at least some of the others you mentioned. Again, I am limited to a reasonable distance away. I don't want to buy without hearing!

Thanks much for your time in making your in depth analysis.


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## Ricci (May 23, 2007)

Truthfully one of the best things that you can do is get 2 subs instead of one. Many times 2 moderate subs at half the cost of one really expensive model will best it in both output and in SQ. The reason being that most rooms do wreak havoc with the nice anechoic response of the sub causing huge peaks and valleys in the response that also change throughout the room depending upon position. When you drive the room from 2 separate locations it usually dramatically improves the average response throughout the room. Less EQ is needed and more output potential is maintained in the subs because they aren't fighting the room acoustics as much. If you can handle a pair of subwoofers in separate locations in your decor this is usually a smarter move. 

There are some really good deals in the $700-800 range these days. Again some of the best brands in the $600-$1500 range are from SVS, ED, HSU, Epik, Rythmik and Outlaw. For example Epik is selling a sub called the Empire for $1500 a pair which has dual 15" drivers in a very reasonably sized sealed vibration canceling dual opposed arrangement. The pair gives you the cone area of 4-15" drives and over 1000w of power. Remember my comments from the first post? That single 12" driver can't possibly compete with this amount of firepower. If you find yourself thinking that "I'm not some bass head who just wants things booming all the time, I want SQ." Then consider that a single 12" in a small enclosure will be flailing away killing itself trying to match an output level that a bigger sub or 2 would be loafing at. Which one is going to be tighter, more distortion free, better at accurately reproducing the input signal and still have the reserve to maintain dynamic headroom? Hint: It's not the one operating at 75-100% of capacity:nerd: 

Unfortunately most of the best subwoofer deals are not going to be found in a store where you can go for a listen. IMHO listening in a B&M store is highly compromised anyway and can many times give you a misleading impression of the unit. The room acoustics and set-up particulars are always unknowns.


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## rocksnap (Sep 9, 2010)

Crunch time. Moving onto the new house next week, time to make a decision on a PAIR of subs. Thank you all for the input. Again, most of the info you gave me I never would have thought of. This may be one of those things that I would be happy with any one of the majors mentioned. But if I were to do a side by side comparison only then would I hear the difference... But if I learned anything here it would be to get a pair of subs. Especially for my particular room. 

I have heard nothing but praise for the JL f113. All reviews say it is near impossible to get them out of line and they also do a remarkable job of sound quality, dynamic headroom, in general producing amazing base. Something like the sound often lost with a snare drum. That is not to say that Epic, HSU etc will not come close to the same thing costing less. I wish there was somewhere I could demo these other subs.


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