# Help with diagnosing Rane PE17?



## chargedmr2 (Mar 4, 2012)

Hey guys,

I picked up a used Rane PE17 EQ and I'm having trouble with it. Hopefully someone around here has some experience with these. I am trying to use it between my AVR and my amp for my subwoofer. At first it seemed to be working properly so I began making adjustments. I was using REW to determine my frequency points (since this is hard to do with knobs on an analog EQ) by looping the signal: Tascam 144 OUT -> AVR -> Rane PE17 -> Tascam 144 Mic IN. Things seemed to be working OK and after adjustment I took a couple of measures in the room. 

Unfortunately, I noticed that one of the filters which was set to cut by 13dbs was only cutting by about 5dbs. That seemed strange and I started to wonder if this one filter was not working correctly. So, I sent the signal from the EQ directly back into the Tascam Mic IN to eliminate room effects for a closer look at what was happening. Only this time, I couldn't set the levels in REW properly. If I remember correctly, the input level was maxed out, and nothing I did could change this (not good). I then engaged the full bypass on the EQ and was able to set the levels properly (the EQ has a relay that disengage the active electronics completely). After this I reconnected the EQ to my amp and noticed that the signal light on the amp was constantly lit (even when no source material was being sent to it). Normally this light is off and lights when source material below the crossover point is diverted to the sub. I am also nearly 100 percent certain that this light was not constantly lit during when I first connected up the EQ. So, something about this seems wrong.

I also noticed that I started getting a popping through the sub when engaging and disengaging the bypass switch, which I am certain was not happening before these issues arose. 

Is my EQ dead? I've tried everything I can think of, and am now at a loss.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Is it possible that a feedback loop has been formed inadvertently? That is what it sounds like, with the input signal maxed and amp indicator led constantly lit. Probably in the Tascam interface somewhere, or its driver/mixer settings.

If you can not track down anything there, sounds like time to back up to a simpler situation that works and then start moving forward again a step at a time. Take the Rane out of the system, just AVR to amp to sub, and run some sound through it (LF pink noise). Does that work OK? If so, add the Rane, bypassed. If that works, unbypass the Rane. If that works, play with some filter values at random, see if it remains stable. Then disconnect the amp and do the loopback again, without changing any values - be sure that you select REW outputs and inputs properly - and remember that with ASIO drivers you select one output and one input, but with Java drivers both outputs are always active, a situation ripe for feedback - this can be overcome using the Windows Playback Device Level balance control (turn off the output that will have an input signal).

Start with the Tascam settings, an audio interface is a common place to create such a feedback loop. If that doesn't fix it, go into the deeper troubleshooting, paragraph 2 above.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

chargedmr2 said:


> I was using REW to determine my frequency points (since this is hard to do with knobs on an analog EQ) by looping the signal: Tascam 144 OUT -> AVR -> Rane PE17 -> Tascam 144 Mic IN.


That’s an effective but tedious process. I assume you’re trying to equalize from a graph generated by a sine wave sweep? Just use REW’s RTA feature and do your equalization in real time. Easy-peasy. :T

Regards, 
Wayne


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## chargedmr2 (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks for the replies. I'm pretty certain the issue is EQ related at this point. This morning I tried a few more things:

1. AVR -> EQ ->Amp: With EQ in bypass, everything works fine. Amp signal light indicates when signal is being received and sub outputs bass as usual. With EQ engaged (no bypass) the amp light is always lit and sub does not output bass--nothing happens. 


2. AVR -> EQ (amp removed from the signal chain): I measured the voltage output across the XLR out pins of the EQ. Pins 1 and 2 read 15.98 volts. Pins 1 and 3 read the same, 15.98 volts. Pins 2 and 3 read 0 volts. This is with NO signal being sent from the AVR but with the AVR powered on. 

3. Only EQ, nothing connected to it but power: Voltage readings are the same as above in point 2.

Can anyone tell me what this might mean??


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

chargedmr2 said:


> 1. AVR -> EQ ->Amp: With EQ in bypass, everything works fine. Amp signal light indicates when signal is being received and sub outputs bass as usual. With EQ engaged (no bypass) the amp light is always lit and sub does not output bass--nothing happens.
> 
> 
> 2. AVR -> EQ (amp removed from the signal chain): I measured the voltage output across the XLR out pins of the EQ. Pins 1 and 2 read 15.98 volts. Pins 1 and 3 read the same, 15.98 volts. Pins 2 and 3 read 0 volts. This is with NO signal being sent from the AVR but with the AVR powered on.
> ...


Assuming you are talking DC volts... The Rane sounds like it is toast. DC voltages at the output should be in the few millivolt range. Sounds like a power supply problem. (Any fuses to check??? How about internal??? Check the manual.)

Have you given the Rane a complete reset? Completely unplug from power for a minute, then re-measure #3 above. Could be a weird analog latchup inside. Even if a "reset" seems to fix it, I am not sure I would consider it trustworthy, though.


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## chargedmr2 (Mar 4, 2012)

Hmmm...I did try a reset, more than once actually. But the Rane does have an external power supply and I never unplugged that from the wall, just removed the power from the unit. There are no fuses that I could locate, and I did open it up to take a close look. Same with external power supply, no fuses there. Just in case, I'll unplug the supply from the wall to see if that does something for me. Fingers crossed!


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

That may be good news. Check the voltages of the external supply. Is it two connections or three? Maybe just the external supply is bad.


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## chargedmr2 (Mar 4, 2012)

I suppose it could be the power supply. The downside is I have no idea how to test it and I'm not sure I want to spend $45 to pick up a used replacement just to see if it was the problem. These Rane power supplies have a telephone like J6 connector that plugs into the back of the unit. There are 6 small wires exposed and I'm not sure what to expect from them. I did try all sorts of combinations with my volt meter and none of them returned anything other than 0 volts. Not sure what that means, especially since the XLR out of the Rane unit is reading 16 volts.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

It is putting out 9 VAC, not DC. Here is a link to a page with a diagram.

See if you get:
9 VAC from center tap (1 & 6) to 9VAC (2 & 5)
9 VAC from center tap (1 & 6) to 9VAC (3 & 4)
18 VAC from 9VAC (2 & 5) to 9VAC (3 & 4)

Any pin not making contact could be a problem, they are not necessarily redundant. Check both the cable and chassis connectors for bent pins.


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## chargedmr2 (Mar 4, 2012)

Excellent. Thanks for the link. Sorry to be difficult, but I don't quite understand what exactly you mean in your post above regarding the voltage checks. I'm an amateur here, so if you don't mind dumbing it down a bit more I might be able to get it :huh:

So, which pins should I touch the volt meters two pointy probes to??


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

chargedmr2 said:


> I measured the voltage output across the XLR out pins of the EQ. Pins 1 and 2 read 15.98 volts. Pins 1 and 3 read the same, 15.98 volts. Pins 2 and 3 read 0 volts. This is with NO signal being sent from the AVR but with the AVR powered on.


XLR pins 2 and 3 are signal (+) and (-), so that’s where you measure the voltage (which is A/C). The fact that you didn’t get anything before across Pins 2 and 3 tells me something’s wrong. That plus the fact that you shouldn’t get any kind of voltage reading with no signal passing through, much less something as high as 16 volts.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

chargedmr2 said:


> Excellent. Thanks for the link. Sorry to be difficult, but I don't quite understand what exactly you mean in your post above regarding the voltage checks. I'm an amateur here, so if you don't mind dumbing it down a bit more I might be able to get it :huh:
> 
> So, which pins should I touch the volt meters two pointy probes to??


Here you go:

Looking at the Connector Diagram for the 6-pin RJ11 power supply connector, the way the connector is facing you in the diagram where you can see all 6 pins, the pins are numbered


```
[FONT=Courier New]
     ___
    |   |
|-----------|
|           |
.|.|.|.|.|.|.
 1 2 3 4 5 6
[/FONT]
```
With your meter in AC volts mode, ranging up to 20 VAC, look for the following voltage measurements:
pins 1-2: 9 VAC
pins 1-3: 9 VAC
pins 1-4: 9 VAC
pins 1-5: 9 VAC
pins 1-6: 0 VAC

pins 2-3: 18 VAC
pins 3-4: 0 VAC
pins 4-5: 18 VAC

pins 2-5: 0 VAC

Remember to look closely at the pins on the cable connector and on the chassis connector to make sure none are bent or out of place.


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## chargedmr2 (Mar 4, 2012)

Thanks for walking me through this. I measured 11v where you noted it should be 9v and I measured 22v where you noted it should be 18v. I also measured 0v in the places you mentioned it should be 0v. I'm guessing this means the supply is probably working as it should? Oh, yes...I did check for bent pins on the power connector, but all is well there (including the connector on the chassis).

Edit to add: I'm using a newer digital multimeter and I mistakenly took my measurements of the XLR out with the unit in DC voltage. I remeasured ensuring it was set to AC and found that across all combinations of the 3 XLR pins, there was 0 voltage (with no signal being sent). When I connect to the amp and send a signal through, my sub does nothing, so I assume there is still 0 volts passing through (though I didn't actually measure this). I guess the strange thing is that the amps signal light remains lit from the moment that the EQ is connected to it and powered up. Weird.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Sounds like the power supply is fine and something is awry in the Rane itself. Too bad, was hoping for a $30 fix there.

Your measurements on the XLR output connector were all useful. There should be no DC output voltage ever (a couple of millivolts max) and no AC voltage without signal running. All points to a problem inside the Rane so far. Bummer.

The 15 VDC on two pins of the XLR sounds like something wrong in the power supply circuitry inside. Sometimes there are internal power supply fuses - that would be an easy fix. Or maybe something in the rectifier/filter/regulator circuit. Maybe time for a repair tech.

How much $$ do you have into it?


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## chargedmr2 (Mar 4, 2012)

Well, that is too bad then. I picked it up for $135, so not sure I want to dump more into it. I've contacted the seller to see what can be done on that end. It was sold as a working unit in perfect condition.


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## pdxrealtor (Jun 30, 2013)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> That’s an effective but tedious process. I assume you’re trying to equalize from a graph generated by a sine wave sweep? Just use REW’s RTA feature and do your equalization in real time. Easy-peasy. :T
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Could you explain this a bit more? I started a thread at the top of this forum if you'd like to reply there.


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