# New House No System -- Need Help.



## Guest (Jun 17, 2007)

*Help - New Whole House Audio System Need*

OK - I'm new to this and just purchased and moved into my new home. I had it prewired but the folks that did the wiring lost my wire map so who knows where anything is. I have wall mounts for the whole house system. My question is...what system? I have looked at number of systems for whole house audio like HTD and Nuvo but not sure what to go with. Anyone?

I think I'll go with the new Onkyo Receiver and the Playstation Blue Ray for DVD/pics etc.

Speakers -- HTD has some great prices by not sure on quality. Anyone here? B&W has the prices and the speaker so that is a known.

I guess I don't want to make a mistake here and looking for some real world help.

The system will go in my main living room, have speakers in the Master Bed/Bath, Speakers in the Den, and Outside Patio.
Thanks for your input.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi SRAYER, and welcome to the Shack.

I moved your post from BFD|REW to General Discussion, where it fits better.

What are your goals with the whole house system? Do you want to listen to different program material in different zones? How many absolutely separate zones do you need? Many receivers and preamps come set up to do two zones.

In my home, I am using a two zone setup, and my Outlaw 990 handles that for me. I have my main listening room, which is a 5.1 system. I also have a second zone, which is set up to run a pair of speakers in the ceiling of my family room. In parallel to this pair of speakers is another pair of outdoor speakers that are located on my patio, and which are adjustable by a volume control that's mounted in the wall outside. I get power to this second zone by using an old receiver that sits in my basement, and is on all the time. 

Between the main zone and the second zone, I am able to play different program material. Of course, the family room and the patio are wired in parallel, so they will always play the same program.

So, that gives you an idea of how I'm doing it. Let us know what you goals or needs are, and we'll go from there. For example, you also have something in the bedroom -- would you like that to be independent from all other zones? In my case, I think I could allow any potential bedroom system to be the same as my "zone 2" -- mostly because I would anticipate that any bedroom listening wouldn't occur at the same time as listening going on the the family room/patio. Also, do you have video needs in these other zones? 

Good luck!


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

*Re: Help - New Whole House Audio System Need*

 
Welcome to the Forum, Srayer!

Whole house audio is a wide-open field, and you really didn’t give us much to go on. For instance, it will be one thing for a small 2000 sq. ft. house, but if you have a 24,000 sq. ft house, that would be a whole ’nother ball of wax. 

How you intend to use the system is key. For instance, if you merely want the speakers in the other rooms playing the same thing the ones in the main room are, that’s pretty straightforward. But, if you want each room to have fully independent access to source selection, volume and EQ, all controlled at each location - that’s obviously a lot more complicated from an equipment and wiring standpoint.

So basically you first figure out how you envision using a whole-house system. Of course, your planned use of the system might be limited right off the bat by the pre-wiring. If it’s just speaker wiring, you’re severely limited in potential flexibility.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2007)

Thanks Otto ---
1) I want to have my main living roon have a decent 5.1 system for movies
2) I want to be able to pump audio to three other areas....i can't see me needing to have more than two different media playing at any given time.
3) would like to have media player or something like it pump family photos to my tv when we have visitors along with the audio.


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## Guest (Jun 18, 2007)

I have CAT5 run throughout and would like to have the ability to run different sources with volumn and such in each source. My home is 4,000 sqft. Does this help?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi SRAYER,

Well, using CAT5 to transmit and control audio is beyond my expertise, but there might be other around here that know. I think that Crestron is a brand that can do that type of thing, but I've never gotten into it.

Do you have speaker wire run throughout the house? I think you said you do in your original post. Do all the speaker cables terminate at a particular location? That is, they all run to their respective locations, but where would you hook up your source? If it's all in one spot, you could just run a two-zone receiver to those runs and you'd be pretty much good to go. There's definitely some more complexity to it, but it's a start.

If you are going to run the same program material to all the "other" zones (a perfectly fine thing to do, IMO), you'll need a way to control volume in each room. I do this in something of a two step method. First, I use a Harmony 890 remote, which is RF based. This means that I never have to be in a line of sight to my equipment in order to control it. I can be in the other room or outside and still control volume and other settings. This is very convenient. Secondly, I use a simple wall-mounted volume control to adjust the outdoor speakers. If you don't already have something like this installed in each of your rooms, you may want to consider it; it'll be some work, but it may be useful. Like you discussed, the CAT5 thing could work, but I don't know much about it. If you use separate receivers or integrated amps that employ IR remote control, you could get a remote such as the Harmony to control each of those devices, and thereby have individual control for all rooms.

At this point, maybe you should just start by getting the 5.1 up and running, perhaps at the same time as _one_ of the other zones -- whichever one you think you might use the most. You could then continue to build and add from there.

You mentioned using a PC to view pictures and drive music. I also have a set up like that. All I really do is just use my TV as a giant monitor to display movies and pictures. I also have all my music ripped to a server, so I can pump that all through the house as well. If you're at least a little computer savvy, it's not that much of a deal (although you can keep tweaking it forever), and can be added on later. The PC is definitely a major convenience and a cool add-on; we use it all the time, and rarely play physical CDs anymore.

So, let's try to get your 5.1 and maybe another zone going first. A few questions:


What's your budget?
What do you need to get for that budget (e.g., need 5.1 speakers and a receiver, but already have a TV and DVD player).
What's going to be your usage? (e.g., 50/50 music/movies, mostly movies, background music, etc.).
How big is the room where the 5.1 will be? Is it dedicated to HT, or is it a family room/great room type setup?
For the first pair of "zone 2" speakers, do you want to mount them on some type of bracket (I think you mentioned that), or would they be mounted _in_ the wall or ceiling?
I think that's a good start. Let's see how it goes...


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

I think manufacturers like Niles and Russound use Cat 5 for the local contollers – you might want to study up on some of the manuals at their websites. You’d still need speaker wires going to the rooms from the amplifiers (assuming they’re going to be in the rack in the main room).

If Cat-5 is all you have, AudioControl makes some balanced line transformers that will send audio signals over cat-5 cable. You’d have to have electronics at each remote location, though – i.e., receiver (or pre-amp/amp) and speakers.

Lots of good info for you here:
http://www.smarthome.com/wwaudvid.html

Regards,
Wayne


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Good comments, Wayne. SRAYER, don't get me wrong -- if you want more control like that, go for it! One more question -- what level of complexity do you want? And how much are you doing yourself, and how much of this stuff have you done in the past? OK, that was three questions.


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## Guest (Jun 19, 2007)

Otto --- Thanks!

What's your budget? I have been looking around $4-$5K ($6K I could live with)

What do you need to get for that budget (e.g., need 5.1 speakers and a receiver, but already have a TV and DVD player). Speakers, Receiver, and Whole House Audio
What's going to be your usage? (e.g., 50/50 music/movies, mostly movies, background music, etc.). Mostly movies and background music -- but I like to turn it up sometimes. As well need good sound outside as we spend many hours outdoors with the kids.

How big is the room where the 5.1 will be? Is it dedicated to HT, or is it a family room/great room type setup? Large open room with valuted ceilings. 28W X 30D X 18 H

For the first pair of "zone 2" speakers, do you want to mount them on some type of bracket (I think you mentioned that), or would they be mounted in the wall or ceiling? I'd rather go in wall or ceiling....I can live with On the wall but would rather be in.

What have you seen from Receivers, Whole House Audio, and Speakers?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hey there,

Good project and good budget. 

B&W 6-series or CM series could work.
Definitive Technology.
AV123 is an Internet direct company that's pretty popular.
SVS is hugely popular sub company with excellent value and big subs.
Another option with subs is building your own -- a relatively easy and fun project if you're inclined to that sort of thing. 
HSU Research is also making nice subs.
Almost definitely I would not go with the "matching" sub to whatever speakers you buy. The options listed above will give you a better sub almost guaranteed.

Here's the Harmony 890 remote that will allow you to control your system throughout your house. It looks like the Harmony 1000 is also RF-based. There are probably others out there as well.

I'm not terribly up to date on receivers, but here's a Denon 2807, Harman/Kardon 645, Pioneer Elite VSX-82TXS (a cursory looks looks like it supports three zones), Yamaha RX-V2600, Onkyo TX-SR605. I think that any of those would do a good job for you. One thing to look out for is all the HDMI 1.3 business. This is to do with HD-DVD/BluRay audio transmission. I haven't really paid it that much attention because I'm OK with regular DVD for now. As I understand it, the only way to get the highest quality audio from HD-DVD/BluRay is via the HDMI connection, and not all receivers currently support that. You can still use a digital connection (either coax or optical) from your DVD player, but it won't be at the highest digital audio resolution possible. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad at all, it's just that it's not at state of the art levels. That said, I would be OK with buying a receiver today, but if your really want to get a top of the line receiver, wait a year or so, or make sure that the one you're getting already has the support you need.

If you want to do in-wall speakers, there shouldnt really be a problem. Depending on how loud you need them to get and how big the room is, you might be able to get away with some rather inexpensive speakers. I have some in my family room that were <$100/pair on eBay. They are nothing fancy, but get the job done for background music. If you want something bigger/nicer, many of the big-name speaker companies make in-wall speakers. I understand that Triads are particularly nice, and I know that B&W and Definitive also make in-walls. Since they will be in different rooms than your main 5.1 setup, I wouldn't necessarily think they would need to match that other part of your system.

I have some Boston outdoor speakers kind of like these. Had them for years without a problem. I bet these Polks would work just as well, and they have a lower rating on their bottom end (50 rather than 65 Hz, though at what specs I'm not sure). If you want big sound outside, I'd go for a pair that have a least a 6.5" woofer, or perhaps two pairs...

Anyway, that's a start!


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## Guest (Jun 20, 2007)

Thanks Otto! What would you use for the Whole House?
Have you heard of HTD? Nuvo? Any suggestions?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hey there, 

No, not familiar with those guys, but I'll see what comes up on a search if I have time.

I would start by using the zone 2 capabilities of the receiver to run one of your extra set of speakers, and then build from there.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

OK. Had a quick look at the HTD systems. I think you could get away with using this one. It's basically a 12-channel amp (i.e., six stereo zones) and six volume controls for $750 or so. You will need to install the volume knobs near the speakers they control. Do you know if your installers already left you something like this in each room? I sure hope so!

Also looked at the Nuvo system. Looks similar. A multi-channel amp with a single-gang wall mounted control system. That control looks to be more complex/robust than a simple volume knob, and HTD also offers controls that are more robust than a simply volume (for a little more money).

How much control do you need in each room? Is a volume knob on the wall (not remote controllable) enough? 

Do you have other home automation stuff that you want this system to tie into?

And did your original installers leave you any type of controls in the rooms where your "other" speakers are?

Also, are you working with an installer, or are you going DIY?


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## Guest (Jun 22, 2007)

Otto -- many thanks!

I'm looking at the upper end HTD system with the multi use panel....source controls etc.
I have not purchased speakers yet but I have wires;
2 - on portch
2 - in master bed
2 - in master bath
5 - in main living
4 - family room
2 - office

I honestly am starting from scratch.
I'm thinking of going with;
* HTD Whole House Audio System --- ADVSETW - 6 White KC1 Keypads, MA-1235 12-Channel Amplifier, and MC-86 Audio Controller 
* HTD - Speakers All Around
* Onkio New TXSR-803 or the new 605
* PS3 for DVD and BlueRay
* Secondary PC for Music Server and Video/Pic Playback

What do you think? Anything bad/overkill/not enough?
Thanks


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hey there,

I'll assume that you or your installer are all prepared for the install part, so I won't worry about those details.

Sounds like you are going in the right direction. I believe you are good with the 12 channel amp for the porch, master bed, master bath, family room and office -- that's a total of 12 channels, so you're right on. 

I briefly looked at the receivers. Since you're in the market now, and they're already out, I'd probably go with an HDMI 1.3 receiver. I really don't know all the details of HDMI 1.1 vs HDMI 1.3, and it may be something of a buzzword/marketing tool, but there's gotta be something to it. I believe the features for the Onkyo 605 indicate that it converts TrueHD and DTS-HD audio, so that will allow you to get the most out of your BluRay player in the PS3. Again, I don't know all the details, and I don't know the price differential (I imagine it won't be a large part of your budget), but I would probably go for it. I've read some of this guy's stuff before, and it's pretty good; it should be a good reference for the basic details of HDMI if you're interested further.

I don't have any experience with HTD speakers, I don't know if I can go for or against them. They do seem awfully inexpensive, and I'm not sure I would consider yours a budget system. If some of them are going to be used in a low-volume situation, I might go for some of the in-ceiling models, but for your main 5.1 movie/listening room, I would go with something more substantial. I basing most of my opinion on their price and name recognition from my point of view. I guess, in the end, you ought to go out and listen to a few different speakers, properly set up, at volumes that you think you might employ. Take along some of your favorite movies or music. To me, speakers are probably the most important part of the system, as they are actually reproducing the sounds that your ears will hear. JCD wrote a nice speaker-shopping primer here. If you care about the end result of your _audio_, check it out and consider shopping around.

I've heard that the PS3 is actually quite good for BluRay playback, and I'd assume for DVD as well, so I think that's a good choice.

Good with the PC. I have a relatively basic Dell that works fine for all movie/picture/music playback.

Go for it!


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Oh, almost forgot -- your room is 28W X 30D X 18 H. That's a pretty big room. You will need some serious sub(s) if you really intend to watch movies with bass. If you want to _buy_ a sub, SVS, HSU and Velodyne are going to be the big names. Nothing (nothing) from HTD, or most other normal speaker manufacturers, will touch these subs. SVS has become very popular for their subs around here. The sub is one where I would really consider going outside of whatever speaker manufacturer you end up with.

If you want to _build_ a sub, let me know.


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## Guest (Jun 25, 2007)

Thanks! I'm rethinking the speakers. Going to do some further research on those noted within and get back to you on this. Budget seems to be going out the window the more I get closer to pulling the trigger on this. Thanks!


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

If you are concerned about budget, we can talk about how to bring things in. On the other hand, I know how easy it is to just go for it!

Have a good day.


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