# How many folks have had their displays calibrated?



## fibreKid

Hi everyone, I'm not asking about Avia or DVE but having someone come out to your home and calibrate the various video inputs. My question is how much of a difference did it make in the picture? 

Thanks much
-john


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## nova

Nope,... thought about it, but wonder if the difference -if any- would be worth it. Also have to wonder if the guy/gal that comes out to do it know what he/she is doing,... could make things worse.


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## Phil M

I've had my Runco DLP projector ISF calibrated, is it worth it?
If your a perfectionist then yes, but you can still have great enjoyment without it.
I had an ISF registered calibrater who is well known in the industry, and a bigger perfectionist than I am (thought it wasn't possible). After he left blacks were blacker and whites became snow white, I watched the process and he spent most of his time on greyscale, when he told me there was too much green at this level or too much red at that level I couldn't see the difference. The most noticeable result, and most difficult, was with skin tones - when visitors see skin tones (eg PBS HD) they are shocked as to how natural they are.
Is it worth $400-$500? For my projector yes - would I do it again knowing the result? Yes.
I have a Panasonic HD CRT, it's probably 90% of the way there anyway so as $500 is a major %'age of the cost I will not do it. But for the projector again, its a no brainer.
A couple of weeks ago I went to a nearby dealer, who had the Sony Ruby showing King Kong, the previous night we watched KK at home. The Sony was way off, I could clearly see significant differences in the color palette/blacks/whites even though its a great projector. The dealer does not calibrate when installing - a travesty! Another local dealer has the Ruby in his high end package, and tells me they are way off out of the box - not a knock at Sony, but this is probably the case with most projectors.

Regarding calibraters, I would find an ISF trained calibrater - but you have to be aware that an ISF image is 'film like' and not 'TV' like - it's possibly a little darker than your used too.

Link to ISF calibraters
http://www.imagingscience.com/isf-trained.cfm

Trust sharing my experiences helps.


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## fibreKid

Thanks for the thoughts, I have a Samsung DLP TV. It looks pretty good now but since I'm never going to have a big screen nor a dedicated room, I figure I want to get the most out of what I have.


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## khellandros66

Phil was your Runco ISF calibrated the last time we were over (in Feb) or was it calibrated afterwards??

If so then I am anxious to see the difference in the contrast cause there were times where the blacks seemed thin and the whites were a little grey. This of course could be result of the source material and movie etc.

~Bob


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## Phil M

It was calibrated, whites are very good, blacks do go deep but limited by the nature of the DLP chip.
But still very good - guess I need to calibrate you Bob  Or send you a seismic wave from my SVS:devil:


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## khellandros66

If memory serves me it was in Nemo though I despise that movie with my soul... I decided to pop it into my player and found their black level in the movie to be very thin. Something tells me this DVD was poorly encoded or in their process of making it they used standard PC RGB (Y. Pb, Pr) based 3D Animation instead of CMYK (Compnent video Y,Cb,Pr). Then inherently blacks wouldn't be the same after conversion. Since I am using the HDMI output non of the typical MPEG2 Codec enhancements are used and the raw unfiltered DVD is shown. This was also very unforgiving in movies like Relic where the DVD transfer is rubbish without these filters.

Perhaps the Runco VXP Processor you use has similar doing's it is more true the DVD's original image. I think perhaps we will have to look at something I am familiar with next time I am over. 

No doubt my slight case of Red and Green color blindness is a factor too (yes I still see most of both colors but shades will fall outside my spectrum and appear greyish)

~Bob


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## lcaillo

My question to people who want their displays calibrated is always, "What do you want that is different than what you currently see?" If the anen swer is something like, "I don't know, I just want it to be right," then it is time for some education. The limitation of most calibrators is that they do not educate viewers and users on how to make their display more enjoyable to watch, but sell them on their particular "standard."

I have been tweaking displays since the earliest days of projection television, and have learned that what makes a display impress people has less to do with expensive calibration than it has to do with educated users. While there are some very good calibrators that provide a very valuable service in a very professional manner, most people do not need their services.

That said, don't get the idea that most displays come from the manufacturers properly calibrated. They generally do not. There are a few techniques that any user should learn and a few concepts that every user should understand to get the most out of a display, with our without a professional calibrator.

First, sources vary greatly in the needed adjustments for contrast and brightness. Not just by device, but by program. If a display is properly calibrated for a given disc or given signal generator, there is little reason to expect that every other disc or every cable convertor, sat receiver, or every particualr program on a given channel might not require different settings for contrast and brightness. Calibrated settings are a start, but from there you have to know how to adjust the pix and should not be afraid to do so. The bottom line is that one should adjust the contrast as low as possible that the pix still has the neccesary brightness in the whites and "snap" that one desires, but not much higher in order to maintain the best detail in the more intense areas. The brightness should be set so that dark areas have adequate detail, but blacks are black, not higher. These two adjustments alone will make more difference than any others in what viewers perceive as a great pix.

Second, "standards" for color temperature are not necessarily what most people like in a displayed image. People differ in their perception of color, perception changes over time, displays vary in their linearity over ranges of stimulation, many displays vary considerably over time in color temperature, and most importantly, human perception of color is quite adaptable and accomodates large ranges of variation. 

Third, actual complete calibration of many displays requires skills that many "calibrators" have no idea how to perform, such as G2 levels, electromagnetic and electrostatic focusing, and other setup functions that go beyond knowing how to use a spectroradiomenter and a spreadsheet. How many calibrators show up with a scope and a service manual or training documentation for the display. Since most consumers have no idea what is possible with a given component, much calibration amounts to expensive hand-waving and declaration that a display is "calibrated" but may not bring a given unit to its highest level of performance, particularly for a given application. To do so requires a tech who is very knowlegable about the product and has a lot of experience with it, a consumer that understands what the display is capable of and how to adjust the consumer controls, and the proper equipment and experience to perform professional calibration. Ultimately, most people can get the biggest bang from simply being educated on how the display works and how to adjust it themselves.


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## nova

Well Leonard,...

That pretty well sums up why I have not had mine calibrated. I don't know enough about what I don't know, and I'm afraid whoever comes out to calibrate will know less than me :yikes: 
Then one day I got into the service menu of my GWIII (made NO adjustments, just looked around and understood none of it :dontknow: ) decided the AVIA cal was good enough for me,... for now.


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## Phil M

khellandros66 said:


> Phil was your Runco ISF calibrated the last time we were over (in Feb) or was it calibrated afterwards??
> 
> If so then I am anxious to see the difference in the contrast cause there were times where the blacks seemed thin and the whites were a little grey. This of course could be result of the source material and movie etc.
> 
> ~Bob


Bob,
Whites:
Here is screen shot of a shuttle launch through clouds (which are a good test of white balance - too much and they get crushed), resolution is poor at this file size.


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## khellandros66

Ahhhhh I seee yeah thats why. I have a very bright display here 750cdm2 and have the brightness and contrast for DVD's and HDTV calibrated using the THX Optimode. With my LCD tv the black are very thick in comparison prolly due to the fact that LCD can shut off each pixel. In projection the blacks are relient on the mirror not allowing the light to play out. Maybe to me your blacks seemed thin because of this dispute in technology.

Your projector is almost 2x-3x brighter as well so that makes is difference as well.

~Bob


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## lcaillo

khellandros66 said:


> Ahhhhh I seee yeah thats why. I have a very bright display here 750cdm2 and have the brightness and contrast for DVD's and HDTV calibrated using the THX Optimode. With my LCD tv the black are very thick in comparison prolly due to the fact that LCD can shut off each pixel. In projection the blacks are relient on the mirror not allowing the light to play out. Maybe to me your blacks seemed thin because of this dispute in technology.
> 
> Your projector is almost 2x-3x brighter as well so that makes is difference as well.
> 
> ~Bob


Actually, It is not possible for LCDs to completely shut off the light and this is why they usually have poorer blacks. The mirror in any system only reflects the light if it is produced. CRTs can be cut off completely. If you cannot adjust the pix for good blacks without losing dark area detail, you might have exaggerated gamma correction, or the source might just be less bright. This is why you should adjust for each program and not rely on calibration alone. The idea that one can have a display calibrated and it will look best for every program is simply faulty.


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## Phil M

Tried to get some white differentiated screen shots up for Bob:


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## Tommy

Are there any comparision pictures available? I would be interested in seeing the difference in before and after pictures of say something calibrated with the AVIA to a ISF calibration.


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## Phil M

Tom, I have the calibration values written down and could do a factory reset and then re-program them in. Let me take a look (i'm nervous about getting into the service/calibration menu and screwing up). My local dealer had the best idea, two identical TV's one ISF calibrated the other with the Avia test discs - the challenge being to do the best you can and then compare with the ISF set, the objective being to demonstrate the difference and generate calibration business.


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## Tommy

That would be very interesting to see


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## brucek

> My local dealer had the best idea, two identical TV's one ISF calibrated the other with the Avia test discs


I don't know if that test would be very meaningful. A lot would depend on what adjustments were initially incorrect, not to mention that it would also be quite easy to 'create' advantageous results.

The basic adjustments that AVIA etc. allows are quite effective, but only go so far. If the set under test suffers from poor linearity, poor mechanical focus, poor convergence, poor grey scale tracking etc., then the ISF vs AVIA would be obvious. If the display has those deeper settings already in fairly good shape, then the AVIA vs ISF calibration would be indiscernible. So what would be the point. Who would decide how far off the two sets should be for the adjustments that AVIA didn't have access to?

I know with my own CRT based RPTV that after I did a full alignment (I had access to a color analyzer etc), that the display from the factory had a horrible grey scale and quite poor focus (which required mechanically racking the CRT's). Agreed with the newer digital displays that a lot of the problems (certainly linearity) have been solved, but I think it depends on the specific unit whether user level adjustments accessed by AVIA are good enough.

Surely if a calibrator takes a course and has some test equipment they would be able to properly set up a television. Especially for the price they charge. Although I guess there's an awful lot of different sets on the market. Do they have service mode information on all of them?

brucek


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## Phil M

lcaillo said:


> Second, "standards" for color temperature are not necessarily what most people like in a displayed image. People differ in their perception of color, perception changes over time, displays vary in their linearity over ranges of stimulation, many displays vary considerably over time in color temperature, and most importantly, human perception of color is quite adaptable and accomodates large ranges of variation.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Couldn't agree more - most viewers are more than happy to crank up the color/brightness/picture/sharpness controls, and prefer it that way. Not only to an ISF calibration but also against a simple Avia type calibration. My Pansonic HD CRT was Avia calibrated, when having trouble with cable dropout the cable engineer came to the house and watched in amazement claiming it was the best HD picture he'd seen. But I would hazard a guess that most users would find it too dull and colorless.


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## Phil M

brucek said:


> I don't know if that test would be very meaningful. A lot would depend on what adjustments were initially incorrect, not to mention that it would also be quite easy to 'create' advantageous results.
> 
> The basic adjustments that AVIA etc. allows are quite effective, but only go so far. If the set under test suffers from poor linearity, poor mechanical focus, poor convergence, poor grey scale tracking etc., then the ISF vs AVIA would be obvious. If the display has those deeper settings already in fairly good shape, then the AVIA vs ISF calibration would be indiscernible. So what would be the point. Who would decide how far off the two sets should be for the adjustments that AVIA didn't have access to?
> 
> I know with my own CRT based RPTV that after I did a full alignment (I had access to a color analyzer etc), that the display from the factory had a horrible grey scale and quite poor focus (which required mechanically racking the CRT's). Agreed with the newer digital displays that a lot of the problems (certainly linearity) have been solved, but I think it depends on the specific unit whether user level adjustments accessed by AVIA are good enough.
> 
> Surely if a calibrator takes a course and has some test equipment they would be able to properly set up a television. Especially for the price they charge. Although I guess there's an awful lot of different sets on the market. Do they have service mode information on all of them?
> 
> brucek


Didn't think about the scientific approach of having two sets both identical in the begiining, a cunning retailer could fix the user controlled set to make it so way off in the beginning to make it unfixable using user controls. The dealer who I was talking to only sold Sony's and was focusing only on Sony dispays.
The sad thing is that they are so way off out the factory, surely users can dial in what they prefer but should at least have a fair chance by having a factory 'reset' thats close to a standard - its a disgrace:rant: 
I even saw a $10k projector, and the outofthebox calibration was terrible - and the installer just tweaks it, no IRE/Gamma changes, just the usual brightness/picture/color.


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## fibreKid

I just went through an Avia tune up on a neighbors new 46" DLP. The before to after results were quite good. I did notice that the gray scale was off when I went through a series of b/w ramps of various flavors though. The mid to darker gray had a slight greenish hue. It wasn't huge and it was only for that shade that I could see. 
I was thinking to myself that a service menu calibration would fix that right up.

-john


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## fibreKid

Using images on two side by side TVs might not provide a big difference. It might be better to have two TVs displaying Avia test patterns, one adjusted with Avia and the other calibrated.
That would be neat to see. :R


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## 11B2P

I had my Sony KV-40XBR800 ISF calibrated by Gregg Lowen in June of this year and I have to say the difference was amazing.

The calibration actually brightened my picture, gave it depth, made colors pop, and gave the blacks detail.

Of course YMMV but I am glad I had it done. 

-Bill


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## lcaillo

Did you learn what he did that made the big differences?


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## Alan Brown

There are two basic approaches to video. The professional approach is to maintain imaging industry standards and preserve original artistic intent all along the program production and delivery path. The chaotic approach is to attempt to offer what pleases the viewer. Our analog NTSC video system in America was once referred to as meaning "Never Twice the Same Color." This chaotic condition was fostered by production professionals, broadcast technicians and TV manufacturers who deviated from industry standards. SMPTE, THX and the ISF, among others with the same goals, have been working for decades now to change that sorry state of affairs.

If a viewer is pleased by accuracy and fidelity to the program producer's intent, the professional approach works best. If a viewer is pleased by picture characteristics of his own choosing, any attempt to predict what will be suitable for the marketplace is left up to such tactics as focus groups and guesswork. The first approach encourages precision, accuracy, consistency, predictability, and fidelity. The second approach encourages the opposite.

Display calibration starts with grayscale accuracy, which is the foundation of correct color reproduction. An incorrect TV grayscale can be likened to printing a photo on tinted paper. This requires an objective reference, since human color perception is so adaptive (as was mentioned previously). Instruments provide the objective reference and a means to quantify how far from correct the grayscale of a display is. User level picture controls can be optimised with the popular home theater setup DVDs. This procedure does nothing to correct an inaccurate grayscale.

Every profession has its variations in practitioner competence. A recent report documented thousands of patient deaths every year due to physician error. Need mechanical work done on your car? How many errors and ripoffs would you estimate occur in the car repair industry? 

If you want to come as close as possible to seeing what a program's producer intended for his audience to see, get your TV professionally calibrated. If you want your megabuck display investment to perform at its peak, get it calibrated. If you want to know how competent a certain calibrator is, get references, or contract with one of the big names among the touring calibrators. You could start with the Lion AV group.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## Josuah

I got my display calibrated indirectly. Bought the same projector that Steve Smallcombe measured and calibrated using his gear, and just used the same settings under the assumption it would be "close enough". So I've got a Red 40 CC filter and the RGB settings he found gave him the best results. I've discovered that blackout cloth is an incredibly uniform material to project onto, so I figure I'm good.


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## lcaillo

With all due respect to standards, Alan, every user should understand what effects the various adjustments have on the pix. Even a correctly calibrated display may need to be slightly adjusted with different sources, particularly in black level and intensity.


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## Guest

If I did that I would spend more time tweaking the display rather than enjoying it. Personally, my DVE calibrated pic is "good enough". Whether or not there are variances from the different sources, has not impacted my appreciation for what I have! Food for thought, and cheers.


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## Alan Brown

lcaillo,



> every user should understand what effects the various adjustments have......


Of course! However, most video consumers don't want to be bothered with even that fundamental level of complexity. They are satisfied with "good enough for me." That's why most TV manufacturers have pre-adjusted picture mode options that simplify the process. Some of the terminology used is: Movie, Sports, Vivid, Standard, Video, Accurate, Pro, etc. All of which typically distort the signal. Some of these modes attempt to compensate for ambient lighting conditions and may actually improve the watchability of the image. If a TV owner ever bothers to read the manual, and has the aptitude to comprehend that limited level of instruction, these modes can be accessed and used as intended.

Professional calibration services and setup DVDs only appeal to a limited segment of the viewing public. The manufacturers know this and make design decisions to primarily suit the masses. Most consumers have never seen a reference image and don't know what they're missing. Videophiles and cinephiles have become aware that better images are available with extra work and want better. 

Image fidelity has absolutely nothing to do with the audience's personal preference, not in an industry that is governed by standards. The only preference that matters is that of the producer of the program. If fidelity is not a dominant priority for the viewer, there is no need for spending money on calibration.


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## lcaillo

I would think that someone who cared enough to have a display calibrated would want to know how to use the consumer controls properly at least. As you know, a large part of the improvements that people report can be achieved by simply adjusting the contrast, brightness, and color properly in the consumer settings. Even after calibration, some adjustments are needed to assure the best performance on any particular material being viewed. Education of the user seems like something that the calibrator should be doing if he/she is really going to provide a useful service and a good value.


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## 11B2P

lcaillo said:


> Did you learn what he did that made the big differences?


Sure did. That was one of the best parts of the calibration.

The biggest changes came from adjustment of grey scale to 6500 D Kelvin, adjustments to color accuracy and tracking. These are just a few of the things Gregg did to my display.

Gregg explained everything as he went along. We even watched several DVDs and HD signals to critique his work.

Could I duplicate his calibration efforts? Not without thousands of dollars worth of equipment and thousands of hours of calibration experience Gregg has. 

Again, YMMV but I am very happy I had the calibration done. In my opinion, worth every penny!

-Bill M.


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## Alan Brown

> I would think that someone who cared enough to have a display calibrated would want to know how to use the consumer controls properly at least. As you know, a large part of the improvements that people report can be achieved by simply adjusting the contrast, brightness, and color properly in the consumer settings. Even after calibration, some adjustments are needed to assure the best performance on any particular material being viewed. Education of the user seems like something that the calibrator should be doing if he/she is really going to provide a useful service and a good value.


Again, of course! When I perform calibrations I spend plenty of time explaining the "why" of what I'm doing. Some calibrators are better at this than others. There's a difference between the talent it takes to perform the work and an ability to articulate well and communicate effectively with another person. People's aptitudes and talents differ. Sometimes a good technician may not be such a good communicator. Clients differ in their capacity to comprehend these issues as well. I have definitely been given the blank stare from some of my customers when explaining the intricacies of display characteristics and imaging principles. 

The popular setup DVDs offer good learning for the issues you are concerned about. Many of my calibrations are performed on displays I've sold and installed. These customers are usually satisfied just to let me do my work and then simply enjoy the beauty of the results.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## OvalNut

My $0.02 on this subject...

I bought my Toshiba 57HX93 (CRT RPTV) sight unseen, not for the showroom picture, but for the potential I knew it had based upon extensive research.

I did my best initial user level calibration using Avia and DVE to make it watchable, which it certainly was. However, I knew going in that I would have Eliab calibrate it on his next trip through my area.

Now, after a full calibration of all inputs and scan rates, followed a year later by a touch up calibration, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat.

As to what changed with the calibration, it all depends on where your display starts out. For mine, it was a greenish hue to the blacks, together with a generalized unevenness in the presentaion.

Now, the best way I can say it is that the display is true. It's dimensional. It's real. 

Ancillary to that though, I also now am keenly aware of those performance parameters where my display struggles. It's a good thing though, because like a properly cut diamond, the flaws will always be there, but the brillance is incredible.


Tim
:drive:


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## lcaillo

11B2P said:


> The calibration actually brightened my picture, gave it depth, made colors pop, and gave the blacks detail. -Bill


My point is not that getting a display calibrated professionally is a bad idea, nor to suggest a chaotic approach is better than using standards. I do suggest that anyone who expects that having a display calibrated will mean that it will always look perfect is mistaken. I also suggest that most of the changes described above are due to things that the consumer can adjust. Perceived changes in brightning the pix, in depth, making colors pop, and giving the blacks detail can be mostly achieved by changes to color, brightness, and contrast settings in the consumer controls. Gray scale has little to do with these descriptions. Now proper gamma might, and certainly any focusing and convergence would. These are things that most consumers should not attempt to adjust. If, however, a client is well educated on how to adjust the pix to start with, the value in professional calibration is less likely to be as great for some. For others, just knowing the limits of what they can adjust themselves and seeing how far off the presets are from where they should be will make professional calibration seem more desirable.

The bottom line is that a better educated consumer makes more intelligent choices and this is better for quality dealers, calibration specialists, and the consumer in the long run. It is my opinion that many who get their displays calibrated put too much emphasis on the importance of what the specialist does compared to the importance of understanding what they can do themselves. One size does not fit all, obviously, and some people just don't want to mess with it. That's OK. There are, however, a lot of people who could appreciate large improvements in their displays from just being better educated from the start.


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## 11B2P

lcaillo said:


> It is my opinion that many who get their displays calibrated put too much emphasis on the importance of what the specialist does compared to the importance of understanding what they can do themselves. One size does not fit all, obviously, and some people just don't want to mess with it. That's OK. There are, however, a lot of people who could appreciate large improvements in their displays from just being better educated from the start.


While I appreciate your position and opinion, aren't you "thread hijacking"? 

I was only replying to the original question that started the thread.

-Bill


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## lcaillo

I don't think that is the case, The original question asked who had had their displays calibrated and wondered how much difference it made. Implied in the question is the value of professional calibration. Seems to me that a discussion of what a professional can do vs what a consumer can do is relevant. I am open to suggestion on the matter of moving to a new thread but I don't see the point.


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## Sonnie

While it does somewhat relate to this thread since the origninal question was how much difference the professional calibration made... I think a thread titled "Professional calibration vs. consumer calibration" might be a heallthy and informative thread on its own.


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## Phil M

Yes, this post has wandered off the beaten track.

As posted earlier I have had an ISF calibration carried out on my projector, and chosen to use Avia for my HD CRT. With this experience I can make my own value judgement on ISF vs my own eyes. For those who have used Avia and are happy with it the open question remains - what improvements can I expect and is it worth it? It shouldn't be more complicated than that, but unfortunately it is!
To clear this up I too would like to see a calibrater starting a thread, that allows forum members to make their own decisions on the ISF approach or not. At the same time it would add value to build up a database of recommended calibraters.


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## Tommy

When my room is completed, I think I will have my BenQ 8720 and my Pioneer Plasma ISF calibrated at the same time. I'm curious as to whether I would need to find just an ISF calibrator or an ISF guy that has experience with that specific projector?


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## fibreKid

Well, I did it. I had my set calibrated today. I'm happy.
It's not a huge improvment over my tweaks using Avia and DVE but it is better. One thing I noticed is the grayscale ramps nolonger had any hues in them, they all looked like various shades of gray. The colors *seem* to be a little richer or as I have heard before "they have more punch". It was very interesting watching the process. 
As far as pro vs con, I also now understand both sides of the argument. :devil:


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## lcaillo

What adjustments account for the richer colors and the "punch." Did you get a summary of what was done? Any printouts or data?


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## fibreKid

I'm waiting on an Email that will have the pdf file of the before and after settings. I saw it on his laptop but we were both rushed to pick up our kids from daycare. There is a Gamma setting on my set that was reduced to smooth out the dark end of the gray scale ramps. The gamut of the TV was corrected to bring it into spec, previously it looked a little extended in the blue and greatly extended in the green. Afterwards it lined up perfectly from what I could see. Also the gray scale curve was corrected, mostly bringing the blue down to close to the red and green. This wasn't perfect but it was a huge improvment in the graphs that I saw. Again this is from memory. The pdf file will have the details. Hope this is the type of info you were looking for.

-john


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## fibreKid

Okay I have some specifics...

The Chromacity Coordinates at various brightness levels IRE 30 -100 were bunched up near the blue end of the blue green red triangle. Afterwards they are much more towards the green red side. Close to D65 (TV white).
Temp tracking before was up around 10700 and after it was around 6100.
Color tracking (red green blue) was all over the map.
Red 85 - 80% Green was prety much 100% and blue was 150%.
Now its Red 100 -108, Green 100% and blue 100 -90 -100%. Perfect is 100%.

There were two images of a color gamut with 6 points defined for color, green, yellow, red, purple, blue and cyan on a triangle with end points at green, red and blue. It showed the target points for NTSC TV and then the measured points on the TV. The measured points had green extended and red a little short. What was most telling were the middle points for yellow, purple and cyan. Yellow was closer to the green, and cyan and purple were way to close to the blue. 

Afterwards the green and red were very close to what they should be and the middle points of yellow, cyan and purple were dead on. It's the removal of the blue and green skewing of the colors, (color separation) that gives the colors more pop I think. It was most obvious watching HD cable. I watched a baseball game on ESPN and if felt like I was looking though a window for the first time since having HD cable. 

I remember drooling over the Pioneer Elite rear projection TVs in the local AV shop. Watching the Hockey and baseball games looked stunning, but my TV never quite got there. Now I know they had been calibrated, the person who did the calibration on my TV was a co-owner.


Hope this helps
-john


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## lcaillo

You were afflicted with the "blue daze" that gives people cataracts...  .I was curious about the gamma change. Usually when people see more "punch" it has a lot to do with the settings of black levels and gamma. My guess is that taking out some gamma allowed you to get blacks without giving up that last little bit of detail in the dark areas, where before you probably had to run the blacks gray to see dark detail. That, combined with the extreme blue gray scale probably took a lot of the "snap" out of the pix.

Glad you got service that you are happy with.

If he gave you the raw data, some handy spreadsheets are out there such as the CalMAN and one by Shawn Rader that let you plot the data a few different ways.


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## Bear5K

lcaillo said:


> If he gave you the raw data, some handy spreadsheets are out there such as the CalMAN and one by Shawn Rader that let you plot the data a few different ways.


Phil pointed this thread out to me, and invited me to respond in an official capacity. Leonard is absolutely right in that we provide users quite a bit of data about what is going on with their display. Most calibration packages generate a decent amount of data, but whether the calibrator provides that to the customer and/or makes that data accessible is definitely something that varies from calibrator to calibrator.

Do you want to know why your blacks are crushed? Your gamma is probably too high at low stimulus levels.

Do you want to know why your whites are crushed even after calibration? Your gamma is probably too low at high stimulus levels.

These are just a few of the things users should know after a calibration, so that they understand what the limitations of their displays are. If your calibrator does not offer this information, then get him or her to explain. If you are dissatisfied, then I might humbly suggest a side trip our way where we should be able to fill in at least a few of the gaps. 

Later,
Bill


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## fibreKid

It's been 2 months since my display was calibrated and I figured it was time to report back. I am still pleased with the results and glad I pony'd up the money to have it done. There was a question of Gama a few entries back. The Samsung DLPs have a gama setting the comes default to 2. I had set it to 0 in the service menu and then run through the AVIA/DVE dvds to adjust my settings prior to the calibration. Just before the set was calibrated I went back and reset it to the factory default. Post calibration the setting was back at 0 again.
The biggest difference I see is still the color separation. I notice it most with blue and yellow with red falling in about second. Blues and reds against a white background really stand out now. Watching the HD Discovery Channel has been a real thrill, the hot rods really look great. The program about the Blue Angels looked quite nice too.

I have put the before/after detail report here if anyone is interested.
http://www.sodapop.org/tvcal

Enjoy :T 
-john

Oh I also found a web site that posts before and after temp curves of many displays that they review. http://www.ultimateavmag.com/ look down on the lower right hand side.


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