# Legacy Audio Focus SE & Marquis HD Review Discussion Thread



## Dave Upton

[img]http://www.hometheatershack.com/images/legacyspeakerreview.jpg[/img]
*Legacy Audio Focus SE & Marquis HD Review*

*For the Full Review: Click Here!*


*MSRP:* $13,295
*Value:* :4.5stars:
*Fit & Finish:* :5stars:
*Home Theater Performance:* :5stars: 
*Music Performance:* :5stars: 
*Overall:* :5stars: 

*Summary*: After three months and many, many hours, I had become very closely acquainted with the Focus SEs and Marquis HD. In fact, I got pretty attached to these remarkable speakers. I was so proud of the sound that I invited friends over to hear the difference - I even invited neighbors. At one point, Dale and I spent an hour enjoying some metal on the Focus SE's and even he walked away a believer that these were worth the price. It's difficult to describe what makes a speaker great in words without the technical knowledge of someone like Bill Dudleston. It's even more difficult to convince somebody that it is possible to spend close to ten thousand dollars on a pair of speakers and have it be worth every penny. I realize I may not have convinced you that these speakers are as good as I claim. I may not even have convinced you to read through this entire monstrous review. If you'll bear with me however, I'd like to leave you with one inescapable conclusion I reached during my time with the Legacy Audio Focus SE's. 

What is it that attracts us all to this hobby, causes us to spend countless hours and dollars in the pursuit of better sound and video? I believe that it is the difference between a cheap seat theater and the IMAX, or the difference between a good home theater, and a great one. Once you’ve heard how good it can be, it’s hard to go back.

These speakers have allowed me to appreciate music, movies, and the sheer joy of listening in an entirely new way. Listening through the Focus SE's is a very simple thing: it’s the difference between listening to a recording, and being there. 










*For the Full Review: Click Here!*


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## Zeitgeist

Those sound like remarkable speakers - and the cabinets look top-notch...

The drivers look like a total mash-up though. I'm assuming that it's function over form? Differing spacing, cone materials, driver shapes, etc. Looks like 4 way, perhaps?


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## Dave Upton

The mash up is a result of function over form certainly. If you're interested in the thought process, this is an excellent read:

http://www.legacyaudio.com/backstage/perspective/focus-se-behind-the-design-with-bill-dudleston/


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## Zeitgeist

Dave Upton said:


> The mash up is a result of function over form certainly. If you're interested in the thought process, this is an excellent read:
> 
> http://www.legacyaudio.com/backstage/perspective/focus-se-behind-the-design-with-bill-dudleston/


Reading it now, thanks very much!


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## GranteedEV

They look like extremely well-engineered speakers all-around.


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## Sonnie

Awesome review Dave... :T

116 lbs. on the center... am I reading that right? Wow! That is seriously heavy.

I have my speakers toe-in set similar to what you did here... center aimed to just behind my head is where the magic seems to work best.

That is remarkable response too from those 12's. I have always found it hard to get that good of a low response with the mains due to the location requirements. I believe I could live with the aggravation of switching the xover for music if I could get my speaker's low frequency to respond accordingly.



> I know that my review is utterly invalid without 900 dollar interconnects or at the very least some reference grade tube amps...


You meant "9000 dollar" didn't you? 900 might be a bit on the cheesy side for some. :whistling:

Legacy is one of those brands that I awe'd at back in the day when I use to read Stereo Review and see their ads. I have always thought they were some of the best looking speakers, but of course never have heard them. Your review confirms my thoughts as to how they might sound. If I can ever see to part with my MLs, I may one day give these a spin.


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## Jon Liu

Great review, Dave!! I really like Legacy Audio's products and this review only reaffirms that.


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## bambino

I think ever since i was into audio Legacy was one of those brands i always wanted but couldn't afford.:spend:


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## Zeitgeist

bambino said:


> I think ever since i was into audio Legacy was one of those brands i always wanted but couldn't afford.:spend:


I'm new to Legacy - but after reading about the engineering/philosophy...... looks like great speakers.

But yeah, beyond my price range too..

I goggled and a couple sites seemed to suggest a price closer to 8-9K. Maybe Audiogon would make these almost affordable


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## bambino

Zeitgeist said:


> I'm new to Legacy - but after reading about the engineering/philosophy...... looks like great speakers.
> 
> But yeah, beyond my price range too..
> 
> I goggled and a couple sites seemed to suggest a price closer to 8-9K. Maybe Audiogon would make these almost affordable


I've been looking at Legacy's for allmost 20yrs and have always wanted there model with the 4 15" woofers (can't recall the model) but new it was always a pipe dream to own them also, there subwoofers from back then seem to have been more then what they are today but with technology changes there new subs may just blow the old ones out of the water.
Maybe once i start playing the lottery and win my dreams will come true.:whistling:


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## craigsub

Dave - Great review. I bought a pair of Legacy Model 1's and a Soundcraftsmen amp from Bill in November, 1988, and LOVED those speakers.

What is going to happen to the review pair of Focus?

Bill Duddleston - if you are reading this, I have a McIntosh MA-6900 amp that would work great on those speakers. Let me know if you want to sell the review pair to an old friend. :T


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## sub_crazy

Excellent review Dave!

Legacy speakers have been on my want list for a loooooooong time. I have always heard how great they sound and the build quality has always looked amazing from photo's. If I ever win the lotto a pair a full set of Legacy speakers will be mineraying:


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## Dave Upton

Craig,

Sadly, the Legacies have returned home already. That said, I'm sure Bill would love to sell you some. I'll be buying some myself as soon as it's in the budget


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## ALMFamily

Thanks for the review Dave! :T

Funny - even someone with my limited background has heard of Legacy speakers and the quality. However, if I were to even THINK about looking at them right now, my wife would put me out to pasture and shoot me for glue. :rofl:


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## JThompson

bambino said:


> I've been looking at Legacy's for allmost 20yrs and have always wanted there model with the 4 15" woofers (can't recall the model)


Hi bambino- the 4 15" woofers are found in our Whisper speakers- the latest incarnations being the Whisper XD and Whisper HD.

Glad you enjoyed the Focus and Marquis, Dave!

All the best,
James


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## christmclean

I really enjoyed the review. I was seriously considering the legacy speakers when I purchased my speakers for my two channel system. I really like the look and the design. I kept looking a them but in the end went with the RC4 from Selah Audio. I thought they had a similiar design and I liked the custom finishes. If I had read this review before I might have been swayed back to the legacy, but there is always the next set.


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## MUCHO

Excellent review. Should I win the lotto these will be on the short list.

I really enjoyed the part where you invited over friends and neighbors to show off the pair of speakers you were reviewing. That to me really demonstrates how impressed you were.


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## myc52002

Having a pair of the FOCUS SE I can say that Dave nailed the review. It is somewhat difficult to find the right words to explain to someone just how these speakers perform and I think he got it right. Well done! 

I have been a Legacy owner since 1994 through several models. When Dave says Bill designs these speakers to work with your room the validation for me is over the years all of the models I have owned have always had very similar personalities which they should if they are "working with your room". That shows consistency with Bill's philosophies and as technology and expertise has improved over the years that sound has become very refined with his latest models. Case in point on Legacy's site there is a video of Bill comparing the previous Eton mid drivers to the latest Rohacell units. I thought the Eton's were great but listen to the comparisons in the video and you will agree how much better the Rohacell are. I know this sounds like a commercial but I simply can't see how it gets any better from here. Love these speakers!


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## ironglen

Wow, Dave has a really nice setup, so these must be unbelievably good. I just hope for the chance to listen to a set someday: any dealer showrooms in Dallas or Austin/San Antonio areas?


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## bkeeler10

Wow great review. It's nice to see reviews of Legacy -- they don't get enough love in the mainstream audio press IMO. As some others have said, I've watched Legacy Audio for several years (going back into the late 1990s). Never had the coin to spend on them, and unfortunately have never had the chance to hear them either. I am at the point where I could consider the Studio HD for a new stereo/home theater setup. Anyone here heard that particular model?


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## gorb

Those are some beautiful speakers. Way out of my price range, but I certainly wouldn't mind listening to them one of these days


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## TedMckennedy

bkeeler10- I haven't heard the Studio HD in person, but it has the same tweeter and woofer found in the other Legacy speakers which I have heard. Performance wise- they can't be beat, and as Dave mentioned, the finish is top notch. I'm still amazed at the midrange clarity and the airy highs from the ribbon tweeter.


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## bkeeler10

Thanks for the insight. Which Legacy speakers have you heard?

If I were to go with the Legacy Studio, I might only be able to use it for the front three speakers (yes, I know they have a few purpose-built center channel speakers). So I would likely have to make do with some other brand of speaker for side and rear surround channels for now. I suppose the trick would be to find speakers that blend reasonably well with the Studio. The match among the front stage speakers is most critical, but a good match throughout is also desirable.


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## dmark1

bkeeler10 said:


> Wow great review. It's nice to see reviews of Legacy -- they don't get enough love in the mainstream audio press IMO. As some others have said, I've watched Legacy Audio for several years (going back into the late 1990s). Never had the coin to spend on them, and unfortunately have never had the chance to hear them either. I am at the point where I could consider the Studio HD for a new stereo/home theater setup. Anyone here heard that particular model?


Hi bkeeler10:

I have heard the Studio HDs, and all the other speakers in the Legacy line. I personally own a set of 3 Signature SEs and a pair of Phantom HD surrounds. Before that, I owned a set of three original Studios for about 15 years. The new Studio HDs are great little speakers, pretty much unbeatable by anything in their size and price range. They do well on their own, but if you can mate them with a good subwoofer, you can have a very nice system, as long as your room isn't too huge.

What I like about Legacy is that all of their speakers are voiced similarly, and they all sound great. Many of them use the same excellent quality drivers, designed by Bill Dudleston himself. What you mainly gain by going up the line is a larger presentation (bigger image, higher image height, more lifelike SQ), and greater bass extension. But the Studios are very good, and a great way to get started with Legacy Audio.


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## bkeeler10

Thanks Dmark. 

I've been following the AVS Legacy thread with interest over the past several weeks, as you and a couple of others have recently acquired some of Legacy's latest offerings.

I would be running these with a pair of sealed 15" subs in a room about 1900 cu ft. which opens up to an additional 1200 cu ft or so. Not a big space fortunately, and I think the Studio HD will fill the room nicely. I hope to be able to go that direction, but the budget probably isn't there to use the Studio HD for surround channel duty unfortunately. Having heard the older Studios, do you think that if I acquired a couple of pairs of them on the used market that they would be tonally close enough to blend well with Studio HD up front?


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## dmark1

bkeeler10 said:


> Thanks Dmark.
> 
> I've been following the AVS Legacy thread with interest over the past several weeks, as you and a couple of others have recently acquired some of Legacy's latest offerings.
> 
> I would be running these with a pair of sealed 15" subs in a room about 1900 cu ft. which opens up to an additional 1200 cu ft or so. Not a big space fortunately, and I think the Studio HD will fill the room nicely. I hope to be able to go that direction, but the budget probably isn't there to use the Studio HD for surround channel duty unfortunately. Having heard the older Studios, do you think that if I acquired a couple of pairs of them on the used market that they would be tonally close enough to blend well with Studio HD up front?


Hmmm... It could work, but they both have totally different drivers. The older Studios had a 1" titanium dome tweet, and a 6.5" Eton kevlar woofer. The new Studio HDs have a 1" ribbon tweet and an 8" silver-graphite woofer. The new woofer is much more open, transparent, and natural sounding, although the kevlar cones weren't bad. You should check out the YouTube video Bill Dudleston did comparing the two drivers - you can easily hear the difference even thru laptop speakers.

I would say the older Studios sound "warmer" or more "analog-like", (which may have been some coloration), while the new Studio HDs sound more "accurate" - meaning more open, transparent, and "natural". I did find that the timbres were different between the old and new models. (I compared them side-by-side a while back). Both sounded very good, and were well-balanced - just a different tonality due to the different drivers, etc. 

Will you be using a room correction program like Audyssey? That can do alot to help timbre-match dissimilar speakers. I used the old Studios with a pair of B&W DS6 surrounds for a while, and while not a perfect match, Audyssey XT got them fairly close. (Although my new matched Sig SEs and Phantoms are awesome together, even before Audyssey)! :R 

Also, please send me a PM, I might be able to give you some options...


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## bkeeler10

PM sent via AVS (I'm apparently not active enough here to use the PM system).

I've seen that video by Bill Dudleston regarding the differences between the old Kevlar driver and the new silver/graphite. Very clear difference acoustically. I would be using Anthem's ARC (Anthem Room Correction) system to equalize my setup. Anthem's philosophy is to not correct above 5 kHz, so that would be the limit. It should cover any differences contributed by the disparate woofers in the system, but most of the tweeter's range would be left untouched.

Perhaps old Studios would not be the best match, though I would have thought that would be a better gamble than randomly picking another speaker manufacturer. I do have a pair of Monitor Audio RX2 speakers that I would probably try before going another direction.

Sorry this has gone a little bit OT here.


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## myc52002

dmark1 said:


> Hmmm... It could work, but they both have totally different drivers. The older Studios had a 1" titanium dome tweet, and a 6.5" Eton kevlar woofer. The new Studio HDs have a 1" ribbon tweet and an 8" silver-graphite woofer. The new woofer is much more open, transparent, and natural sounding, although the kevlar cones weren't bad. You should check out the YouTube video Bill Dudleston did comparing the two drivers - you can easily hear the difference even thru laptop speakers.
> 
> I would say the older Studios sound "warmer" or more "analog-like", (which may have been some coloration), while the new Studio HDs sound more "accurate" - meaning more open, transparent, and "natural". I did find that the timbres were different between the old and new models. (I compared them side-by-side a while back). Both sounded very good, and were well-balanced - just a different tonality due to the different drivers, etc.


This assessment is fairly accurate from my experience as well. I would actually say the originals are not warmer but slightly harder in nature for me. Not annoyingly but leaning that way compared to the HD drivers. That could be somewhat attributed to electronics as well. 

As I have the FOCUS SE and Silverscreen HD center channel (uses the same drivers as the SE and Studio HD) I still use 2 pairs of the older Studios for surround duties. They are tonally very similar and in surround duty they are so much so I have no desire to replace them with the HD models. However, there is no denying that side by side as main speakers the HD are better in every respect. As I said about my FOCUS SE compared to the original FOCUS they are tonally similar from top to bottom but every part of that spectrum is better presented by the SE. Clearly more natural sounding, more effortless, absolutely no part of the spectrum is annoying in any way. That Rohacell driver used in the mids is the difference maker for sure and is readily obvious side by side. Surround duty just is not as demanding and I have no issues with the original studios there, 

With all things being equal I would go for the HD as mains every time and that is not debatable for me. They are better without a doubt. At MSRP it would be a no brainer, but compared to used original Studio's pricing and new HD pricing it certainly makes one pause to consider otherwise.


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## dmark1

myc52002 said:


> This assessment is fairly accurate from my experience as well. I would actually say the originals are not warmer but slightly harder in nature for me. Not annoyingly but leaning that way compared to the HD drivers. That could be somewhat attributed to electronics as well.
> 
> As I have the FOCUS SE and Silverscreen HD center channel (uses the same drivers as the SE and Studio HD) I still use 2 pairs of the older Studios for surround duties. They are tonally very similar and in surround duty they are so much so I have no desire to replace them with the HD models. However, there is no denying that side by side as main speakers the HD are better in every respect. As I said about my FOCUS SE compared to the original FOCUS they are tonally similar from top to bottom but every part of that spectrum is better presented by the SE. Clearly more natural sounding, more effortless, absolutely no part of the spectrum is annoying in any way. That Rohacell driver used in the mids is the difference maker for sure and is readily obvious side by side. Surround duty just is not as demanding and I have no issues with the original studios there,
> 
> With all things being equal I would go for the HD as mains every time and that is not debatable for me. They are better without a doubt. At MSRP it would be a no brainer, but compared to used original Studio's pricing and new HD pricing it certainly makes one pause to consider otherwise.


Hi MYC - I totally agree about the Rohacell silver-graphite mid-woofer being a quantum leap forward from the older Eton kevlar drivers (though they aren't bad, and were very good in their time). I would say that the older Studios could get "harder" sounding when pushed near their limits, but as long as you stayed below that threshold, I felt they sounded warmer than the more accurate Studio HDs. Bill tells me the new Studio HD 8" woofer has a LOT more excursion capability than the smaller 6.5" Eton kevlar woofer in the older Studios. (He actually called the 8" Rohacell driver a "super-woofer"). So you should get much more SPL from the Studio HDs before it starts to reach its limit.

I have the Signature SEs for my L/C/R speakers, but I also have a pair of Focus SEs in the house at the moment. They are obviously cut from the same cloth, and sound very close to each other. The Focus SE has a little larger image size, and they image higher - actually above the height of the speaker, which I like, especially for vocals (more lifelike height, like where a standing singer's mouth would be). This is of course, due to the second Rohacell mid-woofer above the tweeter in the Focus SE. 

The Signature SEs image more traditionally, about as high as the tweeters, but not above the cabinets like the Focus SE. (It's not really too much of an issue, since the Signature SE is 48" tall) The Focus SE also extends a little deeper in the bass region - but man, the Signatures are giving me solid, deep, very punchy, tuneful performance in-room down to 20 Hz, so they are by no means a slouch!

bkeeler - maybe you could consider 5 new Studio HDs, and a pair of older Studios for rear surround duty until you can swap them out for the HD model later?


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## bkeeler10

dmark1 said:


> Hi MYC - I totally agree about the Rohacell silver-graphite mid-woofer being a quantum leap forward from the older Eton kevlar drivers (though they aren't bad, and were very good in their time). I would say that the older Studios could get "harder" sounding when pushed near their limits, but as long as you stayed below that threshold, I felt they sounded warmer than the more accurate Studio HDs. Bill tells me the new Studio HD 8" woofer has a LOT more excursion capability than the smaller 6.5" Eton kevlar woofer in the older Studios. (He actually called the 8" Rohacell driver a "super-woofer"). So you should get much more SPL from the Studio HDs before it starts to reach its limit.
> 
> I have the Signature SEs for my L/C/R speakers, but I also have a pair of Focus SEs in the house at the moment. They are obviously cut from the same cloth, and sound very close to each other. The Focus SE has a little larger image size, and they image higher - actually above the height of the speaker, which I like, especially for vocals (more lifelike height, like where a standing singer's mouth would be). This is of course, due to the second Rohacell mid-woofer above the tweeter in the Focus SE.
> 
> The Signature SEs image more traditionally, about as high as the tweeters, but not above the cabinets like the Focus SE. (It's not really too much of an issue, since the Signature SE is 48" tall) The Focus SE also extends a little deeper in the bass region - but man, the Signatures are giving me solid, deep, very punchy, tuneful performance in-room down to 20 Hz, so they are by no means a slouch!
> 
> bkeeler - maybe you could consider 5 new Studio HDs, and a pair of older Studios for rear surround duty until you can swap them out for the HD model later?


The Signature SE's bass alignment is sealed, is it not? As far as I'm aware, that's the only sealed speaker they have (or have ever had). I find that interesting, and wonder what led them to that decision. Do you notice much of a difference in bass character or quality between the Sigs and, say, the Focus?


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## myc52002

bkeeler10 said:


> The Signature SE's bass alignment is sealed, is it not? As far as I'm aware, that's the only sealed speaker they have (or have ever had). I find that interesting, and wonder what led them to that decision. Do you notice much of a difference in bass character or quality between the Sigs and, say, the Focus?


Legacy did have some sealed systems way back, the Original Signatures and MKII were sealed as I had them at one time. The classics and FOCUS were vented. For me I had the older signatures and then bought the FOCUS and it was not even close for bass performance. I would suspect though the new Sig SE is a quantum leap from the older sigs and compare more favorably with the new FOCUS SE. I have not compared them directly myself.

As for the difference between the original FOCUS (vented) and the SE (sealed) that I can compare is a bit difficult to explain for a couple of reasons. For one, the room and setup obviously has a great effect but from there I say the SE (or the HD which is also sealed) bring a very effortless, lifelike quality through out the entire bass range. It especially articulate. A great bass guitar recording is spectacular with these. The drivers are significantly better which I think is the major reason for that. The originals could put out quantity but could easily become rather boomy if placed wrong or not accounted for - one of the dip switches helps some with that. The original was also tuned very low, I believe around 16Hz so in a lot of ways it still behaves like a sealed system for most of the range but the better SE drivers just dominate the sound quality race between the two systems. I suppose they also don't need "help" down low so no porting needed. I never felt the bass was the real reason for the improvements with the SE. The top end is so good it jumps at you on comparison. 

Now with all that said, I also have an Anthem with ARC and once you tune either system to your room, the major differences disappear for the most part in the bass. Still the SE wins there but not by a long shot. I do use subs as well so I guess I cheat some But even with ARC the quality of the new mid drivers is very apparent and there is no tuning you can do to improve the "voicing" of a driver and they win hands down. I could say the same about the spiral ribbons as well. Jeez, they sound good.


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## myc52002

dmark1 said:


> Hi MYC - I totally agree about the Rohacell silver-graphite mid-woofer being a quantum leap forward from the older Eton kevlar drivers (though they aren't bad, and were very good in their time). I would say that the older Studios could get "harder" sounding when pushed near their limits, but as long as you stayed below that threshold, I felt they sounded warmer than the more accurate Studio HDs. Bill tells me the new Studio HD 8" woofer has a LOT more excursion capability than the smaller 6.5" Eton kevlar woofer in the older Studios. (He actually called the 8" Rohacell driver a "super-woofer"). So you should get much more SPL from the Studio HDs before it starts to reach its limit.


You know when I think back what you say is very accurate. I haven't used the studios as main speakers since about 2005 when I had them paired with some SVS SB12 subs and they did sound very nice at lower volumes but the louder they got the harder they got. Never to an annoyance but you could tell which is why I eventually went in a different direction. I do like my music loud at times..... All makes sense what Bill shared with you as well.


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## dmark1

myc52002 said:


> As for the difference between the original FOCUS (vented) and the SE (sealed) that I can compare is a bit difficult to explain for a couple of reasons. For one, the room and setup obviously has a great effect but from there I say the SE (or the HD which is also sealed) bring a very effortless, lifelike quality through out the entire bass range. It especially articulate. A great bass guitar recording is spectacular with these. The drivers are significantly better which I think is the major reason for that. The originals could put out quantity but could easily become rather boomy if placed wrong or not accounted for - one of the dip switches helps some with that. The original was also tuned very low, I believe around 16Hz so in a lot of ways it still behaves like a sealed system for most of the range but the better SE drivers just dominate the sound quality race between the two systems. I suppose they also don't need "help" down low so no porting needed. I never felt the bass was the real reason for the improvements with the SE. The top end is so good it jumps at you on comparison.
> 
> Now with all that said, I also have an Anthem with ARC and once you tune either system to your room, the major differences disappear for the most part in the bass. Still the SE wins there but not by a long shot. I do use subs as well so I guess I cheat some But even with ARC the quality of the new mid drivers is very apparent and there is no tuning you can do to improve the "voicing" of a driver and they win hands down. I could say the same about the spiral ribbons as well. Jeez, they sound good.


MYC: I was a little confused by your post above...The current Focus SEs and Focus HD models are both ported designs AFAIK... (as were the older Focus models). The current Signature SE is sealed, and I think the older Sigs were too. (There is currently no Signature HD model). You are correct about the Classics and Studios - they are all ported designs.

I'm not exactly sure why Bill D. designed the Signatures as a sealed design, but I do know it works really well in the new Sig SE. I will see him at the NYC Audio Show next week, so I'll try to remember to ask him about that. I suspect it has to do with getting more extention out of the smaller 10" woofers - a sealed cabinet rolls off slower (-12 dB/octave) in the bass than a ported cabinet does (-24 dB/Octave). I know he is fond of ported woofers and passive radiator subwoofer designs in general. He always says that a "properly designed" ported system doesn't have the problems we normally associate with ported designs (slow, one-note bass, port chuffing noises, etc). All I know is that he must really know what he's doing, because the new generation of ported Legacy designs I have heard have great bass performance. 

BTW, I agree with you about the ribbon tweeters sounding sweet! I love the detail and air that they can pull out of recordings. I have an Onkyo 885 with Audyssey XT, and the Audyssey curve rolls off the top end above 10khz too much - I don't like that. That's probably useful if you have a harsh movie soundtrack and cheap speakers, but not if you have a very nice multichannel system like mine. I am looking to upgrade to an Onkyo 5508 soon with Audyssey XT32, which is supposed to not roll off so hard in the treble, so I hope that works better for me. (I guess I could always buy the Audyssey Pro kit and set the target curve flat in the treble if I had to). How do you like your Anthem/ARC system? Which model do you have? Does it leave the treble alone, sounding open and extended on top?


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## bkeeler10

dmark1 said:


> . How do you like your Anthem/ARC system? Which model do you have? Does it leave the treble alone, sounding open and extended on top?


I know that in ARC on the prepros it can be configured to correct up as high or as low as you want it to, all the way up to 20 kHz. However, it defaults at 5 kHz and Anthem recommends that you leave it there. In the Anthem receivers the highest allowed frequency is 5 kHz and is default, though you can adjust it lower if you want to. You could have it correct only up to 200 Hz if you want.


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## myc52002

dmark1 said:


> MYC: I was a little confused by your post above...The current Focus SEs and Focus HD models are both ported designs AFAIK... (as were the older Focus models). The current Signature SE is sealed, and I think the older Sigs were too. (There is currently no Signature HD model). You are correct about the Classics and Studios - they are all ported designs.
> 
> How do you like your Anthem/ARC system? Which model do you have? Does it leave the treble alone, sounding open and extended on top?


My bad, you're right the SE are ported. :doh: I have the D2V. By default ARC eliminates any effect above 5K and Anthem recommends no higher (even though you can have ARC adjust all the way to 20K if you want) mostly due to the inability for the mic to accurately analyze the response above 5K for a number of acoustical reasons. I have tried multiple settings and find it very suitable leaving it at 5K, actually preferable in my room. Plus the more you extend the freq for analyzing the less horsepower you are left with to address the lower freq which is far more important anyways and where ARC is superb at dealing with. I used to have an SVS EQ1 and didn't like it much. ARC IMO is substantially better for me. I particularly like the quick sweep option allowing you to move your speakers to find the best position while giving you live feedback as to the response each position provides at the listening position.


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## JThompson

Hi guys, this is James from Legacy. 

The sealed alignment rolls out slower on the Signature SE to accept more boundary gain in smaller rooms, then there is a trim control to buffer upper bass while keeping the deep bass room gain. The top end is the same as the Focus SE. Sound is a touch more polite to mate with the slightly less efficient bottom end. Bill voices them very carefully to deliver the best possible balance. Dual tens per side can't keep up with Focus SE's dual twelves at higher volumes, but they offer some of the most honest bass a speaker of this size can deliver. 

Best,
James


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## Larry McConville

For 15 years I've found the Whisper to be a fascinating product, and one I'd really like to 'experience' at some point. I became a Bill Dudleston fan in reading about him first as a great citizen, and second in agreeing with his philosophy on 'piston area'. 

Mmm, Piston Area

Thanks for the insightful review; if I ever move to have a dedicated 2 channel system the Focus/Whisper products will be on my short list.


----------



## bluemax_1

It's funny that the Focus SE manual recommends that "best results are obtained vertically with the listener's ear at tweeter level". Do they assume all owners will have seating on risers or was I supposed to be perched on the back of the couch (like some large audiophile bird)? LOL.

So Dmark1, you said the Sig SE's image lower due to not having the upper mid driver?


Max


----------



## JThompson

Hi Max,

The Focus SE comes with adjustable feet that allow the cabinet to be tilted, should the listener prefer to adjust the path of the tweeters. The Focus SE will, by it's nature, cast a bigger image than the Signature SE- this does not mean the music is _only_ floating above the tower- rather the image is both wide and tall, starting near the ground and extending above the cabinet. This is a good thing, as the reproduced musical event can be large if that is how the recording engineeer intended it to be.

The Signature SE images very well. It will not produce as big of an image as it's bigger brother, the Focus SE, but in it's size/price point category is a serious performer. In my experience, using the Signature SE for mixing music has shown it to be a logical sibling to the Focus SE and Whisper XD.

Best,
James


----------



## bluemax_1

JThompson said:


> Hi Max,
> 
> The Focus SE comes with adjustable feet that allow the cabinet to be tilted, should the listener prefer to adjust the path of the tweeters. The Focus SE will, by it's nature, cast a bigger image than the Signature SE- this does not mean the music is _only_ floating above the tower- rather the image is both wide and tall, starting near the ground and extending above the cabinet. This is a good thing, as the reproduced musical event can be large if that is how the recording engineeer intended it to be.
> 
> The Signature SE images very well. It will not produce as big of an image as it's bigger brother, the Focus SE, but in it's size/price point category is a serious performer. In my experience, using the Signature SE for mixing music has shown it to be a logical sibling to the Focus SE and Whisper XD.
> 
> Best,
> James


Thanks for the response James, I ended up calling you guys at Legacy Audio and asking a few setup questions, including a question about the front baffle having a slight backward/upward tilt as I wasn't sure which surface was supposed to be perfectly vertical, front or back (for anyone looking for the answer, the back is vertical). Playing around with the positioning now.


Max


----------



## MagnusAtom

JThompson said:


> Hi Max,
> 
> The Focus SE comes with adjustable feet that allow the cabinet to be tilted, should the listener prefer to adjust the path of the tweeters. The Focus SE will, by it's nature, cast a bigger image than the Signature SE- this does not mean the music is only floating above the tower- rather the image is both wide and tall, starting near the ground and extending above the cabinet. This is a good thing, as the reproduced musical event can be large if that is how the recording engineeer intended it to be.
> 
> The Signature SE images very well. It will not produce as big of an image as it's bigger brother, the Focus SE, but in it's size/price point category is a serious performer. In my experience, using the Signature SE for mixing music has shown it to be a logical sibling to the Focus SE and Whisper XD.
> 
> Best,
> James


Those signatures are best value for buck! I've got a signature III, with McINTOSH mc300 power amps, and I'm very much in love with them. Every listening session is pure joy. So detailed, powerful, outstanding!

Thinking of a Silverscreen HD add on for the center, will they match with new drivers vs the old? I'm guessing it won't be perfect, but great nonetheless?


----------



## myc52002

You are right that the Silverscreen HD would not be a "perfect" match. If you wanted that you should look for the previous version Silverscreen I or II using the same Eton drivers as the Signature....but with that said IMO there is obvious improvement in several aspects of the HD over the previous versions. I have had all 3 and currently use the HD with my FOCUS SE. I always had an issue with the I & II's beaming (best way I can describe it) at certain mid frequencies. The I was worse than the II which is why I upgraded to the II at the time. Never had that same effect with my older FOCUS (using the same Eton mids) just with the Silverscreen. It wasn't bad and not always noticeable but it was definitely there and at times a bit annoying. Could have been the room or positioning but the HD completely eliminated that for me. 

That new mid driver used in the HD series is really fantastic. It is far more natural sounding and simply has a superb response through its entire range. Between the improved drivers and I think a wider range the mid drivers cover without being crossed over (IIRC) anywhere in the mid range allows a extremely smooth frequency response. My only concern is the HD may sound better than your Signatures and then you will want to upgrade them to an SE series! 

But in all seriousness I am nit picking somewhat. You can't go wrong with the originals. They are still one of the best center channels you can get and can be found for a good price with some patience.


----------



## MagnusAtom

When I'm already so happy with my S3s, I wouldn't mind the SSHD to be better, that would encourage me to listen to 3-channel audio, sharing my audio experience with the wife and guests, in the same soundstage as the sweet spot. 

Thing is the SS isn't meant to go lower in Hz as the S3s, so I may need a pair of elevated subs left and right of the center. Ahhh.... Can't help but think of the Marquis HD now, but that's double cash of what I'm willing to lay out for now.

Also, with the new Aeris launched, I'm wondering whether there's gonna be an updated center speaker with the AT tweeter.


----------



## bluemax_1

myc52002 said:


> You are right that the Silverscreen HD would not be a "perfect" match. If you wanted that you should look for the previous version Silverscreen I or II using the same Eton drivers as the Signature....but with that said IMO there is obvious improvement in several aspects of the HD over the previous versions. I have had all 3 and currently use the HD with my FOCUS SE. I always had an issue with the I & II's beaming (best way I can describe it) at certain mid frequencies. The I was worse than the II which is why I upgraded to the II at the time. Never had that same effect with my older FOCUS (using the same Eton mids) just with the Silverscreen. It wasn't bad and not always noticeable but it was definitely there and at times a bit annoying. Could have been the room or positioning but the HD completely eliminated that for me.
> 
> That new mid driver used in the HD series is really fantastic. It is far more natural sounding and simply has a superb response through its entire range. Between the improved drivers and I think a wider range the mid drivers cover without being crossed over (IIRC) anywhere in the mid range allows a extremely smooth frequency response. My only concern is the HD may sound better than your Signatures and then you will want to upgrade them to an SE series!
> 
> But in all seriousness I am nit picking somewhat. You can't go wrong with the originals. They are still one of the best center channels you can get and can be found for a good price with some patience.


You're talking about the Silverscreen HD? I've been wondering about the Silverscreen HD vs the Marquis HD to pair with my Focus SE's.

Hitting the lowest octaves doesn't matter as much as I can crossover anything below 50-60Hz to the Seaton Submersive HP's. What matters most to me is how well they match the voicing of the Focus SE's and especially, how well they do vocals. I have quite a few music/concert Blu Rays, so being able to keep up with the musicality of the Focus SE's is important, oh and being able to hit THX Reference 10' away.


Max


----------



## myc52002

I have not heard the Marquis HD but I find it hard to see how it could improve on the Silverscreen HD as it matters pairing with the FOCUS SE. I find my Silverscreen HD lacking absolutely nothing in that duty. There is not one thing I wished it would do that it doesn't. Vocals are superb, it is a perfect match to my FOCUS SE and it will take what ever volume you throw at it without any strain whatsoever so for the difference in price I just couldn't even consider the Marquis HD. 

As a reference point I have a dedicated theater room, watch my movies at reference @ 15' so I can say there is no shortcomings in my system in this scenario. I would maybe guess that the Marquis would be an improvement if you ran the center in full range but that's it. Doing that introduces other issues I don't want to deal with as well such as phase isin the bass, room modes being excited differently etc.


----------



## bluemax_1

Thanks, sounds like the Silverscreen HD is just the ticket then. That'll save a pretty penny since it's almost 1/3 the price of the Marquis HD.


Max


----------



## Bjski

I have the Focus SE. The Silverscreen is fine in my setup.

My question to other Focus SE owners are you going to upgrade to the the new Kapton system. I believe Legacy will make the upgrade available in the spring.It would also include a new crossover and front baffle. As of now the upgrade is about $2000. Any thoughts?


----------



## dmark1

Bjski said:


> I have the Focus SE. The Silverscreen is fine in my setup.
> 
> My question to other Focus SE owners are you going to upgrade to the the new Kapton system. I believe Legacy will make the upgrade available in the spring.It would also include a new crossover and front baffle. As of now the upgrade is about $2000. Any thoughts?


I assume you mean the new Air Motion Tweeter (AMT) system...? The material used in the AMT's accordion-folded ribbons is Kapton. 16 square inches for the 4" lower tweeter and 4 square inches for the 1" supertweeter.

Yes, Legacy is discussing making an upgrade path possible in the Spring, but there is nothing definate yet. I have not personally heard the AMTs yet, but Bill Dudleston and Doug Brown at Legacy both tell me that the upgrade in sound quality is very noticable and worthwhile. I heard the same dollar figure you did as far as upgrade cost involved.


----------



## bluemax_1

Interesting. I'm assuming that Focus SE owners would have to ship their speakers back to Legacy Audio if they wanted this upgrade performed? If so, would that shipping cost be part of the $2k or in addition to it?


Max


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## dmark1

Max, 

In addition to the option of shipping the speakers back to the factory for the AMT upgrade, Doug has told me that Legacy is _considering_ offering a DIY kit for the upgrade to be done in the field. 

Of course, this would have to be done by a competent woodworker, as it would require cutting into the front baffle with a router and a special provided template. Whether a customer is willing to accept that responsibility, or has a local Legacy dealer with the skills to do it, or wants to hire a local woodworker to do it would be up to the individual owner. 

I do a lot of woodworking, so personally, I would feel comfortable doing the upgrade myself. Others may want to ship the speakers back to the factory to feel confident it is done right.

The crossover and tweeter connections shouldn't be too difficult to do for most people, as I don't believe any soldering would be involved.

Again, I stress that this plan is *NOT SET IN STONE*, *it is only being discussed at the moment*. More details will follow next year.

Dennis


----------



## bkeeler10

Dennis,

Do you know what Legacy's plans are for rolling the AMT tweeters out to the rest of the product line? I'm wondering specifically about the two models that use a single, higher-frequency ribbon currently (the Classic and the Studio). Do you suppose that the smaller, higher-frequency AMT driver will make it into these models?


----------



## bluemax_1

Thanks for the info Dennis. After thinking about it, one of the points made about the Focus SE was the effort that went into tuning and double checking the crossovers for the speakers. How would the generic one-size-fits-all crossover upgrade with the AMT compare objectively?

I guess I'd have to look around to find a Legacy dealer who actually had Focus SE's with the AMT to see if the upgrade was a worthwhile option to me personally. As it is, I'm enjoying the sound of mine way too much. 


Max


----------



## JThompson

The Silverscreen center channel is a great match for Signature SE, and will pair very nicely with Focus SE, as other users have posted. There were some questions about what you gain in moving up to Marquis HD- you benefit from a greater dynamic capability, and better low end extension. The Marquis HD goes down to 22Hz +/- 2dB, while the Silverscreen HD reaches down to 41 Hz. The additional sensitivity on the Marquis HD is certainly desirable and the larger 7" driver provides more detailed midrange (this can also be heard when you move up the line of stereo models from Signature SE to Focus SE...)

bkeeler10- the top tweeter in the Classic HD and Studio HD is actually the same top AMT tweeter utilized in the dual AMT system. So in these speakers, you're benefiting from the top tweeter used in the larger models.

Best,
James


----------



## bkeeler10

James,

Oh, it is? It looks substantially different, so I assumed it was, but that must be just the exterior "acoustic lens" that has changed and the guts of the tweeter are the same.

So the change is really only in the "lower treble" tweeter then? Thanks.


----------



## dmark1

bluemax_1 said:


> Thanks for the info Dennis. After thinking about it, one of the points made about the Focus SE was the effort that went into tuning and double checking the crossovers for the speakers. How would the generic one-size-fits-all crossover upgrade with the AMT compare objectively?
> 
> I guess I'd have to look around to find a Legacy dealer who actually had Focus SE's with the AMT to see if the upgrade was a worthwhile option to me personally. As it is, I'm enjoying the sound of mine way too much.
> 
> 
> Max


Max, I believe Legacy keeps test data from each speaker based on its serial number, so they should be able to custom tweak new crossovers to "tune" them for your drivers. The SE model crossovers are hand-trimmed to match within +/-0.25 dB of the established target function.

bkeeler:

Yes, the main change to the dual AMT tweeters is the lower tweeter and the new faceplate - the upper tweeter uses the same driver element as before. I feel the the lower tweeter is a very important upgrade, because that covers most of the audible treble range, up to 8khz. The Studios and Classics will continue using the upper AMT tweeter. You will need to step up to the Signature SE towers and above to get the dual AMT tweeters. 

A few months ago, I had occassion to take an upper tweeter apart from one of my Signature SEs after a faulty preamp sent a full volume burst through the speakers. It smoked one of the upper tweeters in about 3 seconds before I could get to the remote to shut it off. I saw a bright flash, and then the tweeter released the "magic smoke". :crying: Anyway, Legacy quickly sent me a replacement, and I was able to easily replace it in about 5 minutes, and everything was as good as new. 

Behind the removable bright aluminum acoustic lens, the upper tweeter is built into a sealed metal case that sort of looks like a small hockey puck with a couple wires coming out of it. I wasn't able to take it apart any more than that. I think I kept the burned out tweeter, so if I get a chance, I'll try to post a picture.


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## bluemax_1

JThompson said:


> The Silverscreen center channel is a great match for Signature SE, and will pair very nicely with Focus SE, as other users have posted. There were some questions about what you gain in moving up to Marquis HD- you benefit from a greater dynamic capability, and better low end extension. The Marquis HD goes down to 22Hz +/- 2dB, while the Silverscreen HD reaches down to 41 Hz. The additional sensitivity on the Marquis HD is certainly desirable and *the larger 7" driver provides more detailed midrange (this can also be heard when you move up the line of stereo models from Signature SE to Focus SE...)
> *
> 
> Best,
> James


I was wondering about this in the Silverscreen HD vs Marquis HD toss up, since the Marquis HD uses the exact same 7" midrange driver as the Focus SE, but don't the Signature SE and Focus SE use the same 7" Rohacell silver graphite driver? I thought the only difference was that the Focus SE uses 2 vs the Sig SE's 1.

Also,
Focus SE: 
2x 12" spun aluminum diaphragm woofers used from 18Hz to 120Hz
2x 7" Rohacell reinforced Silver Graphite used from 120Hz to 2.8kHz
1x 3" dual pole neo ribbon, vapor deposited Kapton diaphragm used from 2.8kHz to 8kHz
1x 1" dual pole neo ribbon, folded Kapton diaphragm from 8kHz to 25kHz

Signature SE: 
2x 10" spun aluminum diaphragm woofers used from 22Hz to 180Hz
1x 7" Rohacell reinforced Silver Graphite used from 180Hz to 2.8kHz
1x 3" dual pole neo ribbon, vapor deposited Kapton diaphragm used from 2.8kHz to 8kHz
1x 1" dual pole neo ribbon, folded Kapton diaphragm from 8kHz to 25kHz

Marquis HD: 
2x 12" spun aluminum diaphragm woofers used from 22Hz to 250Hz
1x 7" Rohacell reinforced Silver Graphite used from 250Hz to 4kHz
1x 1" dual pole neo ribbon, folded Kapton diaphragm from 4kHz to 25kHz

Silverscreen HD: 
2x 8" Rohacell reinforced Silver Graphite drivers used from 41Hz to 2.2kHz
1x 5.25" Rohacell reinforced Silver Graphite used from 2.2kHz to 12kHz
1x 1" dual pole neo ribbon, folded Kapton diaphragm from 12kHz to 25kHz

In comparing all those, it would appear that the Marquis HD uses the single 7" RSG driver (Rohacell reinforced Silver Graphite) from 250Hz all the way up to 4kHz where the other speakers tend to use it from about 120/180Hz to 2.8Khz. The Silverscreen HD has 2x 8" RSG drivers that are used from 41Hz to 2.2kHz and then a smaller 5.25" RSG from 2.2kHz all the way to 12kHz.

And if they're all using the same 1" Heil tweeter, then all the rest of them use it from about 8Khz and up (12kHz and up for the Silverscreen HD), vs the marquis HD using it from 4kHz and up. Seems a little odd.

Makes me wonder about the differences in how they'll sound. It appears that those RSG drivers are pretty capable and IIRC from the comparison between those and the older kevlar mids, the 7" RSG was supposedly pretty flat over 7-octaves?

Also makes me wonder about the new Accordion Edge midrange and midwoofer drivers used in the Aeris (since the Heil variants are only used in the higher frequencies above 2.8kHz).


Max


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## JThompson

The Signature SE and Focus SE do share the same 7” midrange driver. The Signature SE only has one 7” mid while the Focus SE has two (as you mentioned), and the Focus SE has two 12” woofers of a different design than the two 10” woofers in the Signature SE. Those are the difference in drivers, however they are also two different designs- the Signature SE being a sealed cabinet of smaller cabinet volume than the larger cabinet, and ported design of the Focus SE.
The Signature SE and Focus speakers crossover between the midrange and treble drivers occurs lower due to the lower ribbon which is able to take over at this point.

You are correct the rohacell silver graphite midrange drivers are very flat! I think you might enjoy this real world test of their abilities compared to the older Kevlar mids: 




The new drive units used in Aeris place it right between the Focus SE and Whisper XD, performance wise. Moving from Focus SE to Aeris, the midrange is noticeably more defined in Aeris. Moving upward, Whisper XD provides more detail and the imaging is better yet.

I hope that helps!
James


----------



## Bjski

I have no problem soldering, changing speakers,crossover but it's the wood work that will kill me.

I would return the Focus SE to Legacy for the upgrade. My problem is I don't have the boxes. FedEx destroyed one box with a forklift. Thankfully I only needed A new grill. Maybe a drive from NJ would cost the same as new boxes and shipping.


----------



## dmark1

Bjski said:


> I have no problem soldering, changing speakers,crossover but it's the wood work that will kill me.
> 
> I would return the Focus SE to Legacy for the upgrade. My problem is I don't have the boxes. FedEx destroyed one box with a forklift. Thankfully I only needed A new grill. Maybe a drive from NJ would cost the same as new boxes and shipping.


Bjski, new boxes and foam inserts run about $300 for the pair, just for your information....


----------



## Bjski

dmark1 said:


> Bjski, new boxes and foam inserts run about $300 for the pair, just for your information....


Thanks, still wondering what makes more sense shipping them or driving them. What a speaker would love to hear the difference between the old Focus SE 
And the new one.


----------



## MagnusAtom

Ordered the Silverscreen HD to 'match' my signature3s. 

Marquis will have to come when disposable income is a little more. 

Right now, have got a b&w HTM2 in the mean time... And that's not great at all. "( 

The mid range seems muddy. Have to do loads of eq to compensate. Even then, I think the port design's the culprit, I cannot get it to sound 'better' than a lower vm-1 b&w, even though that's a lifestyle range.


----------



## Bjski

I have Legacy Focus SE. I was thinking of adding a subwoofer. I only use the Legacy's for 2 channel music. Any suggestions for a subwoofer? I was thinking of SVS or Rythmick,sealed. The Focus SE have great bass just looking for that little extra.


----------



## bkeeler10

Wow you must be a true basshead if you need subs to go with the Focus for two channel listening only. Not that I object 

There's plenty to like about both Rythmik and SVS. I've never heard either one, but I am partial to Rythmik because of their unique servo design. I hope to own a pair soon and find out how good they really are. I also like that Rythmik will sell you the drivers and amp and let you build your own box if you want. I intend to build a pair of F15HP myself.


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## bluemax_1

Do you listen to a lot of pipe organ music? Or infrasonic dubstep? There really isn't much content below 40Hz in music, and the Focus SEs handle that easily.

That said though, I use my SEs for both 2-channel music AND multichannel HT, and for HT, the SEs are deserving of some really great subwoofers. The Seaton Submersive HPs fit the bill for me. 2400watts, extension down in the single digit Hz region in room. Tight, fast and controlled. Not exactly cheap, but I'd say they're in the appropriate range for anyone getting Focus SEs.


Max


----------



## MagnusAtom

Bjski said:


> I have Legacy Focus SE. I was thinking of adding a subwoofer. I only use the Legacy's for 2 channel music. Any suggestions for a subwoofer? I was thinking of SVS or Rythmick,sealed. The Focus SE have great bass just looking for that little extra.


Are you not considering any of the Legacy Subwoofers? 

Alternatively, you can bi-amp the focus, with a preamp section or active crossover, before the amplifier that goes to the bass and adjust your bass there. 

Subwoofers are good if you face some standing waves in the room, the subs even them out. I'd work with a pair, that will give me better evenness, and make it even harder to localize the subwoofer. 

I like the Cinema 12-250 subwoofers, they are non-ported and are "obedient". They don't have a prevailing frequency that sticks out when you bring down the crossover. They are quite effective though underrated, and one of the best bang for buck.


----------



## Bjski

Thanks for everyone's input. I have a man cave for my 2 channel system. I am running Bryston 7BSST/2 bi-wired to the Focus SE,900 watts at 4 ohms. In the room there is a standing wave around 80HZ which I treated with GIK Acoustics. I am very pleased with the sound.

My home theater is an Axiom system. I guess when I compared the 2 systems is the lack of the very bottom HZ which an Earthquake MKV-15 in the home theater system delivers. It's that in the chest feeling.

Why I'm thinking of SVS or Rythmick is the WAF. I was thinking of getting that extra bottom end at the cheapest price. Yes, the Legacy really deserve something more expensive. It's a fine balancing act. Do I really need a subwoofer,no. Do I want that feeling in my chest, yes. Is it worth it for me to buy a subwoofer in the $1500 price range or will it just degrade the sound?

I would also like to update the Focus to the new Tweeter if Legacy offers the update. I love the Focus SE.

Thanks for everyone's input.


----------



## dmark1

Bjski, Legacy will be offering the AMT upgrade soon. I will be one of the authorized dealers to do conversions on the east coast.

BTW, I have a Seaton Submersive with Focus SEs for home theater and music, and it is fantastic. The Legacy LF Xtreme subs are also great and have high WAF, too.


----------



## Bjski

dmark1,
Where are you located? Will you do the updates or will you send the speakers out? (doesn't matter as I mentioned before I don't have boxes).

My wife doesn't care for subwoofers. This is why I was thinking of cheap subwoofer if I could get away with it. I would however update the speakers as a first priority.

I actually have a Silverscreen CC that I am using in my home theater. Originally thought I was going to make Legacy surround system.


----------



## dmark1

Bjski said:


> dmark1,
> Where are you located? Will you do the updates or will you send the speakers out? (doesn't matter as I mentioned before I don't have boxes).
> 
> My wife doesn't care for subwoofers. This is why I was thinking of cheap subwoofer if I could get away with it. I would however update the speakers as a first priority.
> 
> I actually have a Silverscreen CC that I am using in my home theater. Originally thought I was going to make Legacy surround system.


I am near Lancaster PA. The plan is to do the upgrades either in the field, at the customer's place, or in my shop if the customer wants to bring the speakers in. I will personally do the upgrades. 

What does your wife have against subwoofers?? She can always put a plant on top of it, or call it an "end table".  Show her the Legacy LF Xtreme - it looks more like a fine piece of furniture than a typical subwoofer, and it would be worthy of your Focus SEs. 

The thing about "cheap" subs is that most, (if not all) of them won't do as good a job as the Focus SEs will by themselves! Unfortunately, its not cheap to do seriously great bass. Most "cheap" subs will give out some where in the mid 20hz range. The Focus SEs will get you down to around 16hz in room with authority, so what's the point unless the sub can solidly get your system down into the single digit hz range? 

Although there is not much musical content below 16hz (lowest note on a large pipe organ), many modern movies DO have rumbly content down into the single digit hz range on bluray. And a great sub definately adds value to the overall experience during those scenes. My 2 cents anyway...


----------



## Bjski

I have no problems with you doing the upgrades. I'm in Vail now but once ski season is over your about 3 hour drive.

I'm wondering by taming the standing wave I eliminated the deepest bass.

My wife just hates subwoofers. Too much rumble during moves plus the house shakes when playing movies. I play it loud but not as loud as a theater. When I do play music through the home theater system 9which is rare) all is fine.


----------



## dmark1

Bjski said:


> I'm wondering by taming the standing wave I eliminated the deepest bass.
> 
> My wife just hates subwoofers. Too much rumble during moves plus the house shakes when playing movies. I play it loud but not as loud as a theater. When I do play music through the home theater system 9which is rare) all is fine.


I'm sure your treatments did not eliminate the deepest bass in your room. The treatments would have to be massively thick (several feet thick at least) to trap deep bass frequencies, since those wavelengths are so long.

If your wife doesnt like rumbling bass, there's not much that can be done for her, I'm afraid. Next best thing might be to consider tactile transducers mounted in the seats. Gives the impression of deep bass without the actual bass waves in the house. I would recommend the Crowson transducers - you can really feel the difference between different frequencies with the Crowsons. I think they would work well in combination with the Focus SEs.


----------



## Bjski

dmark1 said:


> I'm sure your treatments did not eliminate the deepest bass in your room. The treatments would have to be massively thick (several feet thick at least) to trap deep bass frequencies, since those wavelengths are so long.
> 
> If your wife doesnt like rumbling bass, there's not much that can be done for her, I'm afraid. Next best thing might be to consider tactile transducers mounted in the seats. Gives the impression of deep bass without the actual bass waves in the house. I would recommend the Crowson transducers - you can really feel the difference between different frequencies with the Crowsons. I think they would work well in combination with the Focus SEs.


My loss.....I guess I won't need to worry about chest thumping bass.:hissyfit:

On another note dmark1 when do you think the upgrades will start?
Thanks,
BJ


----------



## dmark1

I cant say for certain, but I would think within the next 30 days or so. I think the factory is very close to having the details worked out.


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## MagnusAtom

Try sitting lower. ")


----------



## Bjski

MagnusAtom said:


> Try sitting lower. ")


I'm short enough.:hissyfit:


----------



## MagnusAtom

Bjski said:


> I'm short enough.:hissyfit:


You could get just about any sub that goes about 20Hz, and raise them to about chest height, then prepare to feel the thump!


----------



## Bjski

I fixed my bass problem with GIK traps. No need to buy 2 subwoofers chest high.LOL!

Does anyone know if Legacy decided to update the Focus SE with the new tweeters?
Regards


----------



## ALMFamily

Bjski said:


> I fixed my bass problem with GIK traps. No need to buy 2 subwoofers chest high.LOL!
> 
> Does anyone know if Legacy decided to update the Focus SE with the new tweeters?
> Regards


They are here at LSAF - if you want to give me the specifics, I can make sure to ask them.


----------



## dmark1

Bjski said:


> Does anyone know if Legacy decided to update the Focus SE with the new tweeters?
> Regards


Yes, the latest version of the Focus SE has the new dual AMT tweeters. :T

The new dual AMTs are in the current models of the following Legacy Audio speakers:

*
Signature SE 
Focus SE 
Aeris
Whisper XD
* BTW, the Legacy Audio Classic HD and Studio HD models use the same 1" AMT tweeter element, but they don't include the additional 4" AMT tweeter element that the larger models have. So now you can enjoy the AMT tweeter goodness across the whole line of Legacy speakers (except for the Expression HD, which has a spiral ribbon tweeter)


----------



## Bjski

I guess what I'm trying to say is Legacy or you updateing the Focus SE to the new AMT element? I would consider updating my Focus SE later this year.


----------



## dmark1

Ah, yes, now I see what you were trying to say. :doh: Yes, I am now able to do the AMT tweeter upgrades, as the conversion kits are now available from Legacy. 

Currently, I am doing the upgrades here in my shop, but we will probably be able to come to your location to do these conversions "in the field" later on this year, if you can't bring the speakers to my shop.

Feel free to contact me directly for more details.


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## kiss999

dmark1 ...im in adamstown...just joined this site...interested in hearing legacy speakers...as i never got the chance to see them when legacy had their store in macungie, pa. thankslddude:


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## Bjski

I love my Focus SE. Gonna go for the new tweeter this summer.


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## kiss999

Bjski said:


> I love my Focus SE. Gonna go for the new tweeter this summer.


Any pics of your systems?


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## Bjski

kiss999 said:


> Any pics of your systems?












Tried to upload photo's but for some reason I'm having problems....I'll try and work on it tonight.

My 2 channel has the Focus SE and I have the newer version of the Legacy signature as the center channel in my home theater. I thought I was going to combined the system's at one time.


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## kiss999

Bjski said:


> Tried to upload photo's but for some reason I'm having problems....I'll try and work on it tonight.
> 
> My 2 channel has the Focus SE and I have the newer version of the Legacy signature as the center channel in my home theater. I thought I was going to combined the system's at one time.


Im considering auditioning these = http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-legacy-focus-se-black-pearl-2013-04-30-speakers-19060


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## Bjski

Those are the exact speaker that I have. I believe the list is $9500. The black Pearl finish is slightly more expensive. I have the speaker bi-wired and I'm using Bryston 7BSST/2 to drive them. The amps are coasting for the speakers are very efficient, 95db 1 watt 4 ohms. The newer version has 2 new tweeters which Legacy is offering an update. There is a dealer in Pa who is able to perform the update. I'm actually thinking of updating them this summer. I don't think you will be able to find a speaker to offer the performance of the Legacy's for $5200.
Good luck with your audition. Let me know if you have any questions. (I'm located in NJ) you can also PM me if need be.


----------



## kiss999

Bjski said:


> Those are the exact speaker that I have. I believe the list is $9500. The black Pearl finish is slightly more expensive. I have the speaker bi-wired and I'm using Bryston 7BSST/2 to drive them. The amps are coasting for the speakers are very efficient, 95db 1 watt 4 ohms. The newer version has 2 new tweeters which Legacy is offering an update. There is a dealer in Pa who is able to perform the update. I'm actually thinking of updating them this summer. I don't think you will be able to find a speaker to offer the performance of the Legacy's for $5200.
> Good luck with your audition. Let me know if you have any questions. (I'm located in NJ) you can also PM me if need be.


yes...legacy's have been my "dream" speakers for 20 years or so...they used to have a store near Allentown and i never got the chance to go there and hear their line up of speakers...i almost bought a pair of Talon Raven's for $2000...now another $3000 for these....well.....i guess i need to hear them!.....ive also been looking at the bryston amps to upgrade from my rotel integrated....though i may keep the rotel as the preamp and just add a bryston amp.


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## Bjski

kiss999 said:


> yes...legacy's have been my "dream" speakers for 20 years or so...they used to have a store near Allentown and i never got the chance to go there and hear their line up of speakers...i almost bought a pair of Talon Raven's for $2000...now another $3000 for these....well.....i guess i need to hear them!.....ive also been looking at the bryston amps to upgrade from my rotel integrated....though i may keep the rotel as the preamp and just add a bryston amp.


I think you'll like the Legacy's. The black,pearl finish is stunning. If you go the used route with the Bryston get SST/2 series. The amps are much smoother across the whole frequency range not just great bass. Plus Bryston has the 20 year transferable warranty.

The sender channel I have is the Silverscreen in the black pearl finish. Why I said signature series got me??.....brain freeze.LOL


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## dmark1

Bjski said:


> There is a dealer in Pa who is able to perform the update. I'm actually thinking of updating them this summer. I don't think you will be able to find a speaker to offer the performance of the Legacy's for $5200.
> Good luck with your audition. Let me know if you have any questions. (I'm located in NJ) you can also PM me if need be.


Hi Bjski and Kiss999: I am the authorized Legacy dealer in Lancaster PA, and I can do the AMT tweeter upgrades now.

For $5,200, those used Black Pearl Focus SEs look like a steal. Just be sure to check them out thoroughly to make sure the drivers haven't been abused. 

Kiss999: Since you live fairly close, you should come to my place sometime for an audition. I have Focus SEs, Signature SEs, Studio HDs, Phantom HD surrounds, and I will have a pair of Whisper XDs in about a week! I will be upgrading the Whispers to AMT status. PM me and we can set up a time.


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## kiss999

Bjski said:


> I think you'll like the Legacy's. The black,pearl finish is stunning. If you go the used route with the Bryston get SST/2 series. The amps are much smoother across the whole frequency range not just great bass. Plus Bryston has the 20 year transferable warranty.
> 
> The sender channel I have is the Silverscreen in the black pearl finish. Why I said signature series got me??.....brain freeze.LOL


What about these? http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649045962-bryston_7bsst_mono_amps/:spend:


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## Bjski

kiss999 said:


> What about these? http://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649045962-bryston_7bsst_mono_amps/:spend:


Find out the date code. You will then know how much of warranty is left. This can affect the price of an item. I'll say this much,there nothing like having all the 7B power in reserve.

Here's a thought. I have the newest version of the 7BSST/2. I like to play my music loud and these amps are just coasting. They barely get warm.The Focus SE is 95 db 1 watt at 4 ohms. The Bryston 7's are producing over 900 watts a channel at 4 ohms. The Bryston 4BSST/2 is over 500 watts at 4 ohms. The 4b could save you some cash. Just remember if your going for the 4BSST/2 you want a serial # of 004719 or higher. Bryston changed the capacitor's. In the 7BSST/2 they also changed the transformer serial #001826 and the 14BSST/2 000677.

Lot's of people like the Bryston SST series so if you like the 7SST go for it. Me I get the 4BSST/2 and use the money I saved to get a Bryston BDP-1 player with either a BDA-1 or BDA-2 (not on the used market yet).


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## kiss999

Bjski said:


> Find out the date code. You will then know how much of warranty is left. This can affect the price of an item. I'll say this much,there nothing like having all the 7B power in reserve.
> 
> Here's a thought. I have the newest version of the 7BSST/2. I like to play my music loud and these amps are just coasting. They barely get warm.The Focus SE is 95 db 1 watt at 4 ohms. The Bryston 7's are producing over 900 watts a channel at 4 ohms. The Bryston 4BSST/2 is over 500 watts at 4 ohms. The 4b could save you some cash. Just remember if your going for the 4BSST/2 you want a serial # of 004719 or higher. Bryston changed the capacitor's. In the 7BSST/2 they also changed the transformer serial #001826 and the 14BSST/2 000677.
> 
> Lot's of people like the Bryston SST series so if you like the 7SST go for it. Me I get the 4BSST/2 and use the money I saved to get a Bryston BDP-1 player with either a BDA-1 or BDA-2 (not on the used market yet).


Thanks for the info on the bryston's...will write that in my audio notebook for future reference. I think we speak the same language here as far as audio...i like it LOUD too. Any time i audition speakers i take my master CD of jethro tull's "locomotive breath"....it covers all the sonic tests...solo vocal...solo piano...dynamic mid bass punch...slamming transitions....have not heard it better than on my Epos 14's....but i want a BIGGER and more POWERFUL system.....hence my interest in talon ravens & legacy focus [in the under $5k ballpark]...back to the bryston's...i don't know if i personally would hear a difference between the SST or SST2 ?.....having heard neither....i read the reviews in regards to the difference in the newer SST2 and you have confirmed that...so thanks! ~lee


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## kiss999

Bjski said:


> Find out the date code. You will then know how much of warranty is left. This can affect the price of an item. I'll say this much,there nothing like having all the 7B power in reserve.
> 
> Here's a thought. I have the newest version of the 7BSST/2. I like to play my music loud and these amps are just coasting. They barely get warm.The Focus SE is 95 db 1 watt at 4 ohms. The Bryston 7's are producing over 900 watts a channel at 4 ohms. The Bryston 4BSST/2 is over 500 watts at 4 ohms. The 4b could save you some cash. Just remember if your going for the 4BSST/2 you want a serial # of 004719 or higher. Bryston changed the capacitor's. In the 7BSST/2 they also changed the transformer serial #001826 and the 14BSST/2 000677.
> 
> Lot's of people like the Bryston SST series so if you like the 7SST go for it. Me I get the 4BSST/2 and use the money I saved to get a Bryston BDP-1 player with either a BDA-1 or BDA-2 (not on the used market yet).


Just looked at your setup...nice...what is the 3rd bryston hiding in the back?...you running 3 amps?


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## Bjski

It's the Bryston Bit 20,power conditioner? 
I'm replacing the Black BDA-1 with a silver one. Don't know what I was thinking when I mixed the colors. I did it because of the preamp,Bat 32SE. So I'll keep the BDP-1, black and sell the BDA-1 when the BDA-2 arrives.
My home theater I'm using a Legacy CC,Axiom,Onkyo preamp, Bryston power amp,Denon blue ray transport.


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## Bjski

kiss999 said:


> Im considering auditioning these = http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-legacy-focus-se-black-pearl-2013-04-30-speakers-19060


Let me know how the audition went. Did you decide on the amps?


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## kiss999

Bjski said:


> Let me know how the audition went. Did you decide on the amps?


The 7b-sst are in warranty till 2018 according to the owner....just asked him for the serial numbers...stay tuned.


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## kiss999

Found a 4b-sst2 #006423 for $3300 [canada]...........half the power/half the price of the 7b-sst2 mono's !:help:


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## Bjski

kiss999 said:


> Found a 4b-sst2 #006423 for $3300 [canada]...........half the power/half the price of the 7b-sst2 mono's !:help:


Wait and see if you like the Focus SE first. For the 7SST I would think they should be newer for that price. Only gives you 6 years on the warranty. Everything is negotiable.

My amp's coast with the Focus yet it is great having all that power in reserve.


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## dmark1

Lee (Kiss999), thanks for coming down to Lancaster to audition the Legacy Focus SEs and Whisper XDs. I had a good time showing off what they can do. I hope you enjoyed the audition and I hope Legacy stays at the top of your speaker list! 

If you get a chance, I'm sure the other Shacksters would like to hear your impressions and see the pictures you took. Thanks again!


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## bkeeler10

I second the request for photos and, especially, listening impressions! I'm especially interested in what you thought of the Focus vs Whispers. There have been lots of reviews (professional and personal) of the Focus and lower models of late, but not much on the Whispers (and especially the XD).


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## Bjski

Any Aeris comparison? dmark1 do you have the Legacy Aeris to audition? I believe they will be at the capital audio fest.
I know I need to get my tweeters updated on the Focus SE. Everything has been pushed back or is on hold. My Lab might have tore her ACL. If she needs surgery,depending on the procedure $1800-$6000 there goes my audio money.


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## dmark1

Bjski said:


> Any Aeris comparison? dmark1 do you have the Legacy Aeris to audition? I believe they will be at the capital audio fest.
> I know I need to get my tweeters updated on the Focus SE. Everything has been pushed back or is on hold. My Lab might have tore her ACL. If she needs surgery,depending on the procedure $1800-$6000 there goes my audio money.


Sorry to hear about your lab. Pet surgery is not cheap, but I'm sure she is one of the family. 

At the moment, I have the Whisper XD, the Focus SE, Signature SE, Studio HD, and Phantom HD surrounds available for audition. No Aeris yet, unfortunately. But I have heard them and they fit nicely between the Whispers and Focus, but leaning closer to the Whispers in sound. The Aeris also retains the Focus' powerful subterranean bass.

I'll be doing AMT upgrades as long as they're available, which should be a while, so just call me when you're ready, and we'll get you fixed up. In the meantime, you should plan to come up to Lancaster for a visit and to hear the Whispers.


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## Bjski

dmark1 said:


> Sorry to hear about your lab. Pet surgery is not cheap, but I'm sure she is one of the family.
> 
> At the moment, I have the Whisper XD, the Focus SE, Signature SE, Studio HD, and Phantom HD surrounds available for audition. No Aeris yet, unfortunately. But I have heard them and they fit nicely between the Whispers and Focus, but leaning closer to the Whispers in sound. The Aeris also retains the Focus' powerful subterranean bass.
> 
> I'll be doing AMT upgrades as long as they're available, which should be a while, so just call me when you're ready, and we'll get you fixed up. In the meantime, you should plan to come up to Lancaster for a visit and to hear the Whispers.


Sounds good! I would like to come up to Lancaster and check things out. Doug Brown recommended you for the tweeter upgrade. He also suggested for me to attend the Capital Music Fest.


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## kiss999

First I would like to thank Dennis [dmark1] for inviting me and my cousin into his home to finally hear this line up of Legacy speakers that I have waited 20+ years to finally listen too. Pictures are from that audition. Enjoy! [ Signature SE / Focus SE / Whisper XD ]


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## kiss999

http://www.capitalaudiofest.com/p577.html --- anyone going? ....interested in hearing the speaker offerings by Tidal / Salk / Daedalus / Legacy .


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## Bjski

kiss999 what did you think of the speakers?

As I mentioned before Doug Brown from Legacy suggested for everyone to attend the Capital Audio Fest. I just don't feel driving down solo. I would only go for a day.


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## Bjski

Nice speakers!

I replaced my Infinity Epsilons with the the Legacy Focus SE. Every couple of years I would destroy the Epsilon EMIT. They were the last speakers made of the IRS Line. Finally I couldn't find a replacement EMIT so I needed new speakers. I went with the Legacy's because I love that planar/ribbon sound. To my ears the Legacy's sounded better. Slightly more detail and better controlled bass. The Infinity's were power hungry and they dipped to I think 2.9 Ohms. I drove them with 2 Bryston 4B's. The Infinity's listed for $15,000.00 in 1995. I bet for the same build quality they would cost between $20-$30,000.00 now.

I am happy with the Focus SE just looking forward to the new tweeter. I also want to hear the Aeris.


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## hoot

I purchased a set of Legacy Focus SE in Pearl Black a couple of years ago.

I sold them about 6 months ago to a fellow in Little Rock.

I miss them. When he received them and first listened to them he was so excited he called me and raved.."Mike, I have never heard a speaker sound as good as these."

They are incredibly transparent.

I just may own Legacy's again.


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## Bjski

Focus SE are great speakers. I'm trying to upgrade my to the new tweeters.


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## Bjski

Ordered Legacy Aeris. Should get them in about 3 months.


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## bkeeler10

Three months huh? That's a tortuously long time to wait, but I bet it will be worth it. Please do report back with your impressions once you get them settled in.


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## Bjski

Read my post in headphones. I'm on crutches another 5 weeks and my 2 channel rig is in the basement so am I excited yes, but I need to be 100% when these babies arrive.


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## hoot

Looks like I'll be back into the Legacy's again. Just ordered a pair of Focus SE's and the Silverscreen center. Should have them next week. For me the Marquis is just overkill. I don't like a huge center.


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## bkeeler10

Exciting. So you had Legacy speakers before? Which ones? Be sure to let us know what you think of them once you've got them all dialed in.

I hear ya on the center. And the Silverscreen is not exactly small itself! Would be nice to have the 7" midrange, but two 12" woofers on a center is pretty crazy. I suppose if you had a really large room . . .


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## Bjski

Congratulation,your gonna love the Focus SE. What color did you get? I have the Silverscreen as my center channel in my home theater and it sounds great. I wanted to make an all Legacy system for my home theater but that got shot down by the wife. When my Focus arrived they were just a little big for where we were going to place them. Plus she likes to listen to music at low levels.
I know it's recommended to have all the same brand for home theater but the Silverscreen works.


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## phazewolf

I may be getting a pair of the Legacy Audio Focus se soon if things work out my wife told me to go ahead and I have coming this Saturday a Silverscreen HD center which I can't wait to hear how it will sound in my system.

What is the difference between the the Focus SE v1 and the newer SE v2? the ones I am looking at are the slightly older v1 model and I know the tweeter changed but did it make it that much better?

Has anyone gotten there ears on both that can give me there feelings on this I would love to hear about it.


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## hoot

Yes I had the non- Air Motion SE's before. They were pearl black. 
Then I heard a set of Seaton Sound HT speakers. Decided to give them a try but ended up not liking the sound in my space.
Went back to Legacy. Love the refined high end sound.
New ones are pearl black also. What an impeccable finish.

Here is a link to a "My System" html on my server. 
http://www.getdieselpower.com/misc/Sharon/HomeTheater/My_System/current.html

Has pics and history. 

You can also click on the dropdown arrow to the left where it says "My System" to view my component list

No doubt the Air Motion array is a major improvement, and the SE's were awesome before!

This is the current setup. Kinda makes the 65" Plasma look small.


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## phazewolf

I am looking at a used pair that are Black pearl in color. They were being used in a mixing studio so they should be broken in. I am hoping to hear back from the guy it was a expired ad but only by a few days so well see. 

The bad is I will have to drive 600 miles one way to pick them up so if I get them 18 hour drive hear I come which is never fun but oh well the price I pay for sound.

I will be driving them with a Parasound HCA-3500 which should not care about the load or phase angles these speakers can present.

I have been looking at my phone all day hoping the email comes in but no luck so far. Time with tell.

Can't wait to get the Silverscreen center channel wile it will not have the pair if 12" drivers I can care a less I can send the bass where it should be my subs. Wile the idea of a full range center sounds nice in most cases there is little need.


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## Bjski

Nice looking set up. Mine are stuck in the basement....to big for the WAF. LOL!


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## phazewolf

Sadly the ones I wanted are gone. So back to looking for a pair. I want the Focus HD sense they tend to cost a lot less and I can surely live with there great sound. Well see my wife is fine with them so no issues for me


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## Bjski

Where are you located?


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## phazewolf

Michigan and I am willing to drive...


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## Bjski

Might be to far but I am trading my Focus SE in to a dealer in Lancaster PA. Speaker's are Black Pearl 3 years old. They have the older tweeter. I'm waiting on the Aeris which should be ready in March. If your interested I can PM you. You can try and work something out with him.


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## phazewolf

Pm sent.


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## phazewolf

It is only 546 miles one way what could go wrong? Let me know what your thinking and thanks a lot.


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## Bjski

Should have my Aeris next week. The excitement is starting build. I'll let you know what I think once they are dialed in


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## bkeeler10

Hmm, yes, please do report back and let us know what you think of them. I heard them a bit last October at RMAF and they were pretty impressive in a number of respects, even in the huge ballroom they were playing in. I look forward to your impressions.


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## Bjski

I received the Aeris Sunday. I haven't done any serious listening yet. What I have noticed is they are definitely part of the Legacy family. The immediate sound was clean and clear. In comparison to my Focus SE first generation. There was more bass which was tighter. The highs and midrange added more definition and punch.


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## Bjski

Received the Aeris this week. Couple of quick thoughts. They are definitely from the Legacy family. The sound is more dynamic than my Focus SE and the bass is deeper and tighter. The more I listen the more I like. The cymbals no longer have that tizz sound. They sound more like cymbals. I'll let you know what I think after a few more listening sessions.


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## bkeeler10

Please do. Sounds like your Focus pair did not have the larger AMT tweeter -- is that right? So you're hearing a substantial difference with the new tweeter pair huh? I am jealous . . .


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## Bjski

Quite right the Focus SE had the older tweeter that is still used in some of the designs. Best about the Aeris is you can tune them to any room.


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## Bjski

Slowly been listing to the Aeris. These are a very good speaker. I'm hearing more detail and subtleties that I haven't heard before. I'm gonna use the well worn saying that I'm discovering my Flac files and CD's all over again. One great advantage is I can program the Xilixa DSP processor to 32 different listening modes. No, I only programmed 3 different points from my dealers initial setup. It's great because I can make some poorly recorded music sound pretty dynamic. I just use the program setting on the Xilixa DSP that is appropriate for the recording I intend to listen to.

Legacy new tweeter adds a smoothness to the top end. The Aeris can attack everything I throw at them. The bass is outstanding. I was able to isolate a standing wave that I used several different treatments on. Now, I just dialed it back on the processor, the standing wave gone and what's left is great sound. 

The Legacy Aeris speakers need to be heard and I can only imagine the Whisper's sounding even better.


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## bkeeler10

Jealous I am! Glad you're enjoying them! One of these days I hope to be able to own the Whispers. Been a dream speaker for probably 20 years.


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## Bjski

bkeeler10 said:


> Jealous I am! Glad you're enjoying them! One of these days I hope to be able to own the Whispers. Been a dream speaker for probably 20 years.


Get those Whispers! Great speaker especially for that price. You just might need a subwoofer. Those 15 inch woofer's are open and Legacy list the response to 22HZ. I love the Aeris but I'm scratching my head for $12,000.


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## bkeeler10

Easy say hard do. They're at least ten times what my budget allows at the moment. But hopefully some day.


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## Bjski

bkeeler10 said:


> Easy say hard do. They're at least ten times what my budget allows at the moment. But hopefully some day.


I know what you mean. I have couple of upgrades I'd like to make but the new Legacy's will keep me in check for a while.

It's hard to imagine that the Whisper being so large are even less room dependent than the Arris.


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## kiss999

any Aeris in lancaster to hear?


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## kiss999

I see "HOOT" sold his Focus SE's & Silverscreen ! More proof these speakers are over-priced and over-rated ! Yeah they "look good" but are built using CHEAP parts ! BEWARE !:hsd:


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## phazewolf

People sell speakers for all kinds of reasons. Looks like he sold his entire system or is working on such. Are you going to say that the SVS sub he is working on selling is over priced junk too or the Avr that he also sold?

What makes you things he sold his stuff because it was over priced and cheaply made?


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## bkeeler10

Indeed . . .

Phazewolf how are you enjoying your Legacy setup?


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## kiss999

Because if this stuff was the "best you ever heard" you don't sell it. I have my speakers since 1981 !


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## phazewolf

Sometimes people run into money issue's. He is selling his entire setup. The sub is made by SVS and it's for sale too how is that of Legacy? 

I love my setup and the only reason I would sell it is if I ran into money issues. Unless you have talked to him personally your just guessing. Post where he said the speakers are junk for us to read.


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## GranteedEV

kiss999 said:


> Because if this stuff was the "best you ever heard" you don't sell it.


Sure you do. What you hear is *only one factor*. Placement. Aesthetics. Seating coverage. Financials. Source material preference. 



> I have my speakers since 1981 !


? And?


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## phazewolf

If people don't sell speakers there happy with why are you trying to sell the speakers on audiogon for 16k? Kind of looked like your trying to change your setup as well why is that if your statement was true??


----------



## kiss999

phazewolf said:


> If people don't sell speakers there happy with why are you trying to sell the speakers on audiogon for 16k? Kind of looked like your trying to change your setup as well why is that if your statement was true??


Your comparing speakers ive had for 30+ years to someone who's selling after less than a year? !!! I see these Legacy's for sale all over the place, and most have not owed them very long. I have NEVER seen one pair of the speakers i own for sale...EVER !


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## phazewolf

And that makes them good speakers why? Just because a speaker is obscure does not make them good. 

If they are so good why sell them. 

I love my Focus SE and they are going nowhere. Just because some people are selling there speaker's does not mean they didn't like them. You may also see that they sell fast. Many of the pairs I see were demo speakers.


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## tesseract

We're getting off topic, here. :cop:


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## Bjski

Funny I hardly see any Legacy's for sale on audiogon. Yeah, I sold my Focus SE after 3 years because I wanted to move up the line. Legacy must be doing pretty well cause it took them 4+ months to build my new speaker's.


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## bkeeler10

Which model did you move to? His do you like it?


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## Bjski

Aeris...love em.....


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## kiss999

Bjski said:


> Aeris...love em.....


review?....soon ready to upgrade?:rofl2:


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## Bjski

Maybe, the review. Wondering how much the new speakers ,V are. They sure look interesting along with the processor. I'm thinking down the road you'll be able to get the new processor at added expense.


----------



## bkeeler10

I think I read somewhere that the V is going to be like $50k. I don't remember where

Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity just posted a review yesterday on the Aeris. In it he said that the new Wavelet processor that comes with the V will also be coming with the Aeris going forward. No mention of whether the cost of the Aeris would go up because of that . . .


----------



## AudiocRaver

Have not heard a price for the V yet, either.

I asked to get a pair for review, mostly wishful thinking, it would be amazing just to be able to hear them for a few weeks. I could never afford them in this lifetime. They put me on their "interested reviewers list," which probably gets whittled down to big name reviewers. Sigh.

They sure sounded great at RMAF.


----------



## Bjski

AudiocRaver said:


> Have not heard a price for the V yet, either. I asked to get a pair for review, mostly wishful thinking, it would be amazing just to be able to hear them for a few weeks. I could never afford them in this lifetime. They put me on their "interested reviewers list," which probably gets whittled down to big name reviewers. Sigh. They sure sounded great at RMAF.


I know when Cordsman reviewed his Aeris and he bought them. I think the top reviewer's are given the chance to purchase reviewed products at a substantially savings. I believe shipping packaging,setting up and return the reviewers are offered a pretty good deal to purchase the review sample. I'm not sure many review's can afford these even with the discount.

AudioRaver you review products maybe you can shed some light. I know I did a review on a headphone amp and was offered a pretty good deal on purchasing it.

I worked in the ski industry and there are shop forms,pro forms, sponsorship to help manufactures market their product's.

AudioRaver,good luck I hope you get a pair Legacy V to review.If you can't get the Legacy's why not try Bryston. Get the mini A and you can compare the Bryston mini A to the Axiom 100 before the speakers are given away. Better yet get the Bryston model T. They seem to be getting rave reviews.
Cheers


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## Bjski

I hate my iPad because when I proofread what I wrote I find lot's of mistakes. I apologize for what was published but I think you get the drift.


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## Bjski

Kiss999,I will say this......I have been listening to the Aeris with the processor in the flat mode of late. I've been doing this mostly to make graphs. The room the Aeris are located in sucks yet the Aeris still sound very good. I know at one time I was interested in adding a subwoofer to the room the Aeris are set up in but not with the Aeris.
The previous speakers were the Infinity Epsilon IRS, Thiel 3.6,JBL 250TI and Legacy Focus SE. I love the Aeris.


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## AudiocRaver

Bjski said:


> I hate my iPad because when I proofread what I wrote I find lot's of mistakes. I apologize for what was published but I think you get the drift.


They can be... "challenging." No idea how kids text as fast as they do.

Review gear is a nuisance for manufacturers. They have to pay to ship it back and can't sell it as new, might have to refurb it, might have to scrap it out, have no idea the condition it will be in. They would love to not have to mess with it again. Discounts for reviewers are usually 40% to 50%, maybe more if you beg a little. It might be different for a company like Legacy, low volume and high-dollar items, each one is worth more to them. That's why I'm guessing they will be choosy who them send them to.

I first heard Legacy models at AXPONA last April. The Whisper stands out in my mind, but everything I heard was special. I believe they had Aeris, too, they would be nice to live with.

I will look into the Brystons.:bigsmile:


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## bkeeler10

Yes, and the beauty of letting a reviewer buy the gear for 40% - 50% off MSRP is (at least for brick 'n' mortar brands) that they sold a speaker at around the same cost they would be selling them to their dealers. No loss for them really; in fact they got a review for free, they won't have to deal with returned merchandise, they are able to say that the reviewer was so enamored with their speaker that he now uses it as his reference, and they essentially also sold a pair of speakers at their regular cost to dealers (still making money on the deal).

On the reviewer end, he gets a pair of speakers he loves at a great discount that will allow him to sell them in the future if need be for little to no monetary loss.

Classic example of a win-win situation.


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## Krelldog

AudiocRaver said:


> They can be... "challenging." No idea how kids text as fast as they do.
> 
> Review gear is a nuisance for manufacturers. They have to pay to ship it back and can't sell it as new, might have to refurb it, might have to scrap it out, have no idea the condition it will be in. They would love to not have to mess with it again. Discounts for reviewers are usually 40% to 50%, maybe more if you beg a little. It might be different for a company like Legacy, low volume and high-dollar items, each one is worth more to them. That's why I'm guessing they will be choosy who them send them to.
> 
> I first heard Legacy models at AXPONA last April. The Whisper stands out in my mind, but everything I heard was special. I believe they had Aeris, too, they would be nice to live with.
> 
> I will look into the Brystons.:bigsmile:



Hi AudiocRaver - Have you had the chance to demo a pair of PBN Montana loudspeakers? If you love Legacy's you will love these as well...enjoy!:wave:


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## AudiocRaver

No I have not, but they sure look interesting. Will be watching for a dealer. The emphasis on symmetrical design is a grabber. Thanks for the tip.


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## Bjski

kiss999 said:


> Found a 4b-sst2 #006423 for $3300 [canada]...........half the power/half the price of the 7b-sst2 mono's !:help:


If you get the Legacy's that Bryston amp will hardly get warm. You'll be getting at least 500 watts at 4 ohms and with a 94db efficiency.


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## Bjski

You also have a newer 4BSST/2. They made a few changes with serial #004719. The capacitors being the biggest issue.


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## MagnusAtom

bkeeler10 said:


> I think I read somewhere that the V is going to be like $50k. I don't remember where Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity just posted a review yesterday on the Aeris. In it he said that the new Wavelet processor that comes with the V will also be coming with the Aeris going forward. No mention of whether the cost of the Aeris would go up because of that . . .


My understanding is that the Wavelet processor and pre-amp will be available as an upgrade to the Xilica processor for those already having the Xilica. A big bonus that it is likely to come with a remote.


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## musictogo

Those Legacy speakers "with the four 15's" are the Legacy Whispers. I have had mine for quite a while, and use them (very) full range along with a Legacy Xtreme subwoofer(one active and one passive 15"). As I do run the Whispers full range, the sub isn't "necessary"-----but ads the cherry atop the ice cream when I'm in the mood for some----"extreme" bass. I LOVE these speakers(not the only speaker system in my home). They are so very musical----and dynamic/extended to meet any home theater need. I bought my 2003 pair used in 2009. No problems, no worries, and a great experience every time!


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## bkeeler10

Yeah I've always wanted a pair of those Whispers, for about 20 years now actually. Unfortunately a pair of them would blow my entire AV budget, so they are sadly not in the cards unless I hit the jackpot somehow.


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## musictogo

It is possible to find a "deal" on them every once in a while. Other than that, enjoy the music and the theater!


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## musictogo

Hey, I just noticed you're from Utah-----and I just bought a fabulous thirty year old preamp(for two-channel stereo) from none other than----Utah. It's an all-tube Counterpoint SA-5.1. Right now it's performing with a Counterpoint SA-220 amp and a pair of (about) fifty year old Altec Magnificent A7-500W Voice of the Theatre speakers. I do love audio and video!!


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## bkeeler10

musictogo said:


> I do love audio and video!!


Amen brother!


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## AudiocRaver

musictogo said:


> Those Legacy speakers "with the four 15's" are the Legacy Whispers. I have had mine for quite a while, and use them (very) full range along with a Legacy Xtreme subwoofer(one active and one passive 15"). As I do run the Whispers full range, the sub isn't "necessary"-----but ads the cherry atop the ice cream when I'm in the mood for some----"extreme" bass. I LOVE these speakers(not the only speaker system in my home). They are so very musical----and dynamic/extended to meet any home theater need. I bought my 2003 pair used in 2009. No problems, no worries, and a great experience every time!


Heard the Whispers first at AXPONA in 2014 and loved them, can see why you do!:yikes:


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## musictogo

Thanks. I've been "speaker crazy" for many years, and currently have other systems in my home as well. The Whispers have to be one of the most musical and natural sounding speakers I've ever had the pleasure to own!


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## prerich

musictogo said:


> Thanks. I've been "speaker crazy" for many years, and currently have other systems in my home as well. The Whispers have to be one of the most musical and natural sounding speakers I've ever had the pleasure to own!


There's a woman in Michigan selling a pair of Empires for $1500!!!!


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## musictogo

They should disappear very quickly! Great deal !!


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