# Speaker cable configuration



## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

hey,
so my house is getting built and i asked the electrician to run the speaker wires for the family room. if you guys can look at the photos i've attached, he has run the wires for the rear speakers to the front by running it through the ceiling (picture 1). Also for the side speaker, the wire runs behind the heat ducts.
Just wondering if the heat would cause any distortion for the sound or should that set up be fine. And also for the rear speakers, wouldn't it have made more sense if he had run the wires through the basement and up?
Any feedback?


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

*Re: speaker cable configuration*



indep said:


> hey,
> so my house is getting built and i asked the electrician to run the speaker wires for the family room. if you guys can look at the photos i've attached, he has run the wires for the rear speakers to the front by running it through the ceiling (picture 1). Also for the side speaker, the wire runs behind the heat ducts.
> Just wondering if the heat would cause any distortion for the sound or should that set up be fine. And also for the rear speakers, wouldn't it have made more sense if he had run the wires through the basement and up?
> Any feedback?


I don't think that heat from the air ducts will make a difference in sound. Just be sure that the cable is CL-2 or CL-3 rated for in-wall runs. Cables that are not rated for in-wall runs will burn easier, and may not be approved during your inspection. 

As for running it up in the ceiling rather than into the basement, it won't make much difference, assuming your wire gauge is sufficient. The electrician probably chose to run it in the ceiling because it's easier for him -- otherwise he would have to run downstairs, he couldn't see if there was a kink, it would be harder to pull more cable, etc. 

Good luck!


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

*Re: speaker cable configuration*

I would be running in a path that does not take it through the same hole as electrical cables when there is another path nearby.


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## Space (Jul 18, 2007)

Kind of the same thing, but it is never recommended to run audio/video cables parallel to electrical lines. Most people avoid this at all cost. You will not know about the problem until the walls are closed and the damage gets costly to repair 60Hz humming. 

Me personally, I would get the cables separated before any wall sheathing is installed. No matter what it took. I'm not a big fan of having any wire coming into contact with the flue pipe either. I don't think your inspector will as well, but I could be incorrect on that


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

hey,
i'm not sure what you guys mean by the electrical panel, for the speaker wires, i got the monster cable xp with magnetic flux tube and lpe dieletric... not sure if that makes a difference

what i highlighted in yellow is where the multimedia box is going: coaxial/phone/cat 5 and what i highlighted in green are where the electrical outlets are going to be:


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

If this is the cable you bought: http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=48

I'm afraid it does not appear to be CL2 or 3 rated (though monster goes to great lengths to hide their specs, all the while touting nonsense marketing jibberish like magnetic flux tube and lpe dieletric).

You know what that monster cable would be good for...pulling through a couple runs of this: http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10239&cs_id=1023901&p_id=2817&seq=1&format=2


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

indep said:


> hey,
> i'm not sure what you guys mean by the electrical panel


You want your speaker wires one stud away from any wire that will have electricity running through it. Same with the junction boxes. While you still have the wall open, grab a drill and relocate your speaker wires.

Also, I'm of the opinion these days that you can never have too much cat5e/6 in wall. Feel free to double up on that while your at it (good for phone/security/extending Video and audio/etc.)


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

hey, thanks for the reply, i cant change any of the electrical locations anymore... so the monster cable that i have right now will not pass the inspection? so why didnt the electrican say anything... and also if it's not cl2 what's gonna happen once they put the drywall in?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Well, your inspector may not notice/care, but it would stink if your house burnt down and your insurance claim was denied because the cable was not rated for in-wall. Seems like it would be worth it to take the time to pull some CL2 through.

As for changing the electrical locations, you don't have to. Change the speaker/data wire locations.

No offense to your electrical guy, but a lot of electrical installers are operating under the same techniques that have been used for the past 30 years (before surround sound, HDTV or Internet...and guidelines about fire safety). Yes, he shouldn't have installed anything not rated for inwall. 

I could certianly be wrong about the Monster Cable not being rated for CL2, can anyone find otherwise?

Would it be difficult for you to just pull the wire/change the locations yourself?


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

I didn't ready through all the posts here so some of this may be repeated:

Rule 1: Use plenum rated cable inside wall and ceilings, this cable generally costs a little more than what you are using in the photo, what you show there looks like standard "zip" cord and should not be used. You can pick up a 500 foot roll of 14 gauge plenum rated wire at Lowe's for around $100-150, it pulls through the walls MUCH easier than the "zip" cord does.

Rule 2: Never run audio cable parallel to other AC cables, if you must keep it at least 12" away from other AC wires. You can cross AC wire at a 90 degrees but avoid it if you can.

Rule 3: Try to keep your holes in line when drilling your "pigeon holes" through the cross boards. Doing this helps feed the wire through the walls

Rule 4: If you ever think you might have to pull new wire, use conduit this way when you need to pull new wire it will make it easier. Also run an extra stringer cord/string to facilitate the new runs. Using a vacuum cleaner to "suck" the stringer/string though the conduit works great!

Rule 5: If your not using conduit then be sure to secure your wires as close to the center of the boards/cross members as you can, remember in most cases you are going to lay drywall and you don;t want to miss the 2x4 and hit your wire! Remember if you are not using conduit you more then likely not going to be able to move your wires without yanking the drywall so make sure its secure and leave enough "extra" wire that you are sure you are going to reach your final destination/termination at your AMP/AV and Speakers.

Maybe some other rules but that was all I could think of right off. Good luck and keep the pictures coming!


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

i'm going to go buy some in-wall speakers. I've attached photos of the family room speaker wire set up, can you guys please help me out on telling me what i should tell the electrician in terms of where to run the cables and where i should set the panels, so i can tell him on monday morning.

thanks a lot for all the help so far btw


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

I looked back at the photos you posted and you definitely want to move those wires you are running paralllel right against what appears to be AC wire runs, and while you at it I would replace it with CL rated wire. Again Lowe's has it and its not that expensive, in the scope of things.


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

indep said:


> i can pull the wire and change it to cl2 but changing the speaker locations would be tough, where should i put them?


You do not necessarily have to change the physical speaker locations as long as you can run the wire to them so that the wire is away from the AC lines.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Ditto. And don't forget to run your other a/v and network cables while you're at it.


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

if i put in a protective sleeve or conduit can i put that cable in it and would that work?

ps: for lowe's i'm in canada, they dont have a lowe's in ottawa... this is what i was thinking: http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


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## akakillroy (Jul 9, 2008)

indep said:


> if i put in a protective sleeve or conduit can i put that cable in it and would that work?
> 
> ps: for lowe's i'm in canada, they dont have a lowe's in ottawa... this is what i was thinking: http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


Not sure but that looks like 1/2 and that stuff is a pain to pull wire through, I still would not run it parallel with the AC lines.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

indep said:


> if i put in a protective sleeve or conduit can i put that cable in it and would that work?
> 
> ps: for lowe's i'm in canada, they dont have a lowe's in ottawa... this is what i was thinking: http://www.homedepot.ca/webapp/wcs/...Ntx=mode+matchall&recN=0&N=0&Ntk=P_PartNumber


I'm no housing code specialist, but I would say no. I'm not trying to shut you down, but really, your best, if not only option, is to re-run the wire with the proper in-wall stuff. It seems like a pain now, but you really need to consider it a measure twice, cut once scenario. Spend some time and money now, and save yourself big headaches in the future.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

indep said:


> if i put in a protective sleeve or conduit can i put that cable in it and would that work? [/url]


I agree with the suggestions to separate the audio/video wires from A/C ...even if you use the conduit (better safe than sorry) :bigsmile:

I'm sure HomeDepot carries plastic conduit too, compare the prices first; I don't know what others think about using schedule 40 (for sprinklers) :bigsmile:


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

ok so i'll do the re-wiring, hopefully they haven't put the up drywall and everything.
So I am going to go see the electrician on monday and ask him to rewire it based on teh diagram
yellow boxes are electricity panels
red boxes are speaker panels
blue box is the multimedia panel
so the red dotted lines are the speaker lines going through the basement except the front left speaker that will just go through the drywall 
the blue lines are pvc conduits that i will ask him to install so that when i get my cables from monoprice i can just run the speaker wires myself.
This set up will have the a/c panels 16'' away from the speaker panels and they wont be running parallel since the speakers will go through the basement ceiling ?

Can you let me know if this will work, also what size pvc conduit should i ask him to install?

Thanks


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Looks great, the bigger the conduit the better (1.5 inches min to fit those big ferrites on your HDMI cables).


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

thanks a lot for all your help guys... hopefully they'll be able to do this


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

ok so here's the update, i talked to the site supervisor because the electrician is on vacation until the 6th... he said that he'll tell the technician to run the wires through the basement ceiling but he said that cl2 and 3 are not required by law in ottawa, but he said that either way because the basement ceiling will be unfinished, if i want to i can just run those wires anytime which makes sense. I will go to home depot and buy 12 guage wires and run it myself once i move in. I told him about the electricity lines interfering, he said it's weird cause the electrician should have known so anyway next week the elec is gonna have to remove all the old wires and re-run the new ones through the basement. I asked for pvc conduits, he said it's not worth it since it will be visible anyway from the basement ceiling. I listened to your advice eugovector, I asked him to run cat 5 in all the bedrooms hehe.
One question for you guys though... he told me that they're installing these multimedia panels, that come with 2 coax, 1 cat 5 and 1 phone line, but i'm not sure why 2 coax?? what's the point of 2 because i'd only use 1 for the tv...


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

indep said:


> One question for you guys though... he told me that they're installing these multimedia panels, that come with 2 coax, 1 cat 5 and 1 phone line, but i'm not sure why 2 coax?? what's the point of 2 because i'd only use 1 for the tv...


One for Digital Cable/Dish, one for OTA antenna?


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

aaah good call... but then again if ur payin for one why would you pay for the other  hehe i think it's too much for 2 but since htey're putting it in better 2 than 1 i guess


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## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

indep said:


> One question for you guys though... he told me that they're installing these multimedia panels, that come with 2 coax, 1 cat 5 and 1 phone line, but i'm not sure why 2 coax?? what's the point of 2 because i'd only use 1 for the tv...


Don't forget that many DVR's use two lines from the dish, so that you can tune/record 2 different channels simultaneously.

Either that, or, as above, 1 for Cable/Sat and one for OTA.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Well, you don't pay for OTA, and it will offer a better picture currently than any of the "For Pay" services.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

eugovector said:


> Well, you don't pay for OTA, and it will offer a better picture currently than any of the "For Pay" services.


I couldn't agree more ...CBS, NBC, FOX, etc. have a lot of good programs, that's the reason a cancelled my Dish service a year ago; I was watching OTA programs more than Sat ...:yes:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

indep said:


> he said that cl2 and 3 are not required by law in ottawa


Then I guess there’s no reason to rip out the speaker wiring you already have.

People really make too much of a big deal about keeping AV wiring away from electrical wiring, IMO. That’s why signal wire is shielded, to protect against EMI, and speaker wire is a high-level AC signal. Sure, no reason to tempt fate and run them all together for a long distance, but for the 6-8 ft. length inside a wall isn’t going to matter. If interference is picked up in that short of a distance, then cheap, low quality wiring is being used.

It is surprising to see an electrician drop low voltage and high voltage wiring in the same wall cavity, not to mention the same hole in the header board, but maybe the laws are different in Canada. That certainly wouldn’t pass code here in the States.



> I will go to home depot and buy 12 guage wires


Why?

Regards,
Wayne


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## boyce (May 9, 2006)

indep said:


> ok so here's the update, i talked to the site supervisor because the electrician is on vacation until the 6th... he said that he'll tell the technician to run the wires through the basement ceiling but he said that cl2 and 3 are not required by law in ottawa,


I am not sure ottawa, but In Alberta, Canada building code need FT1 or FT4 for in wall cable run, it is the insulation of the cable jacket, when it on fire, it will cause the poison smoke, BTW beside PVC pipe, you may use corline, http://www.i-home.ca/ihome/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=1197&idproduct=6406 it is more flexible to install, and use the low voltage ring likehttp://www.i-home.ca/ihome/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=1247&idproduct=5678 as the 1004 single gang box, and may be use 2 gang for main speaker jack outlets. :T:T


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

ok so finally after weeks of hassle and going back and forth, i got the electrician to do the job properly (sorta). Went and got cl-3 14 gauge speaker wires for in wall use from home depot... got him to reinstall everything and run it through the basement... I go back to check the work and he has one of the lines running parallel to an electric line in teh basement... so he had to re-run that line and now it looks decent... I will go by this weekend and take some photos to show you guys...they're putting up the drywall at this point so if it's not good then i'm screwed haha

stay tuned for photos


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Sounds like you got everything pretty much straightened out. Trust me, it was worth it.


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

hey guys,
i'm late in posting the photos but 1. extremely busy with the house closing and 2 i never really had a chance to go in and take photos... so thanks to you guys here's the final picture of what it looks like (now all i need is to install the plates and test those bad boys), you can't see the left side of the jacks but very similar to the right side hehe
Enjoy... better late than never  i'll try to take a photo of everything set up too if you guys want

ps: no idea what to put in that niche... any ideas will be appreciated haha


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

indep said:


> ps: no idea what to put in that niche... any ideas will be appreciated haha


A picture or silk flower arrangement?

Nice looking room...

Regards,
Wayne


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## indep (Aug 10, 2008)

alright here are good photos of the place almost finished... let me know what you guys think, i put a frame of scarface in the niche... check it out, can't get better than that ; )


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