# A Preview: THOR: THE DARK WORLD (2D Blu-ray; Disney/Buena Vista/Marvel)



## Osage_Winter

[img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSWXVn1dPr07vbcI0f0ladyjD7D_HVeTlWBvAFYrM35mxG3vVMMqZQMqcMg1Q[/img]*Releasing/Participating Studio(s): Disney/Buena Vista/Marvel
Disc/Transfer Information: Region A; 1080p High Definition 2.40:1 (Original Aspect Ratio: 2.39:1) 
Video Codec:  MPEG-4 AVC
Rating: PG-13
Running Time: 112 Minutes
Tested Audio Track: English DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 (48kHz, 24-bit; tested in 5.1 configuration)
Director: Alan Taylor
Starring Cast: Chris Hemsworth, Natalie Portman, Kat Dennings, Tom Hiddleston, Idris Elba, Anthony Hopkins 

PLOT ANALYSIS:*

*In the interest of saving time, below is my analysis of Thor: The Dark World upon returning from its theatrical exhibition – I will return to the thread with my audio and video analysis of the Blu-ray release once I view it tomorrow (Region A release day, Tuesday February 25).*

_Saw this opening night (last night, Friday, November 8 for U.S. theaters) upon anticipation being a fan of the first, of course, and I’d like to share my thoughts (and perhaps begin a discussion thread here for those who have seen it). Not nearly the absolute bomb Marvel/Paramount’s Iron Man 3 was, the sequel to Thor has all the elements that normally comprise a big budget follow up film: More action, enhanced effects, more powerful enemies for our hero to fight (in the case of comic adaptation sequels) and a somewhat more complex (not for its own good) plot. In the case of Thor: The Dark World, the notions and mythos from the first film are taken up a couple of notches; if you were confused about the “Nine Realms” and the “World’s Tree” and all that in the original, this one knocks you over the head with the science fiction and keeps going (and it seemingly is going to get even thicker in the sci fi/alien-esque territory if the teaser after the credits is any indication of what’s to come in a third film). Everyone from the first film – save for one of Thor’s “henchmen” that quips ”Complicated fellow, isn’t he…” in the original when the gatekeeper makes a sort of contradicting statement – returns for this one including Chris Hemsworth, of course, in the lead; Rene Russo as Thor’s mother; Tom Hiddleston as the campy and always-mischievous Loki; Anthony Hopkins as Odin, Thor’s father; Natalie Portman as the gorgeous Jane Foster; the yummy Jaimie Alexander as Sif and Stellan Skarsgard as the scientist Erik Selvig, who has truly gone off the reservation in this one. We get chilling performances from the bad guys here in the form of Christopher Eccleston, playing leader of the “Dark Elves” Malekith and one of his henchmen Algrim/Kurse, played by Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje. 

Here’s the storyline, according to IMDb:

Thousands of years ago, a race of beings known as Dark Elves tried to send the universe into darkness by using a weapon known as the Aether. But warriors from Asgard stop them but their leader Malekith escapes to wait for another opportunity. The warriors find the Aether and since it can't be destroyed, they try to hide it. In the present day, Jane Foster awaits the return of Thor but it's been two years. He's trying to bring peace to the nine realms. Jane discovers an anomaly similar to the one that brought Thor to Earth. She goes to investigate and finds a wormhole and is sucked into it. Thor wishes to return to Earth but his father, Odin refuses to let him. Thor learns from Heimdall, the one who can see into all of the realms that Jane disappeared. Thor then returns to Earth just as Jane returns. But when some policemen try to arrest her, some kind of energy repulses them. Thor then brings her to Asgard to find out what happened to Earth.

The essential plot of Thor: The Dark World suggests that somehow Jane comes in contact with this “Aether” when exploring some vortex anomaly in London, sending her into another dimension to a world where this weapon was buried by Odin’s own father and his warriors centuries earlier in a battle with the Dark Elves. The power of the Aether somehow gets into Jane’s body and acts like a massive defense system, seriously attacking anyone who approaches her and attempts to examine the force within her (discovered when she’s taken before Odin himself on Asgard). But before we get into that, the film opens with Anthony Hopkins narrating, again, for us a story regarding the Dark Elves and how they attempted to send the entire universe into darkness with this Aether, their leader “Malekith” lying dormant in space within a strange-looking vessel waiting to escape to attempt another go at casting the world into a dark abyss. Odin’s own father, leading a band of powerful Asgard warriors, eventually beat the Dark Elves and their armies and the situation fast-forwards to present day where Thor, Sif and the other top Asgard fighters are battling to get the Nine Realms in order – it seems with the destruction of the Rainbow Bridge in the first film, the universe had been thrown into chaos and to make matters worse, there is an “alignment” of the universe approaching which will allow alien hostiles such as the Dark Elves, if awoken, to jump from realm to realm as easily as we consume Papa John’s pizza. Be that as it may, the opening battle sequence depicting Asgard’s warriors and Thor battling hordes of alien creatures on other realms – or a realm – was fascinating to watch in its scope, if a bit Dungeons and Dragons-esque in nature. Thor utilizes his hammer in clever ways, again delivering witty, daring threats and instigating commentary to the aliens he faces…until a massive, rock-like beast arrives, smashing everything in his path and wielding a giant spiked club. When “it” and Thor meet face to face, the creature hovering above the Asgard God of Thunder like he’s an ant in comparison, our hero merely says ”Hello.” and proceeds to utilize his hammer to smash the creature into a million pebble-like pieces…with one uppercut of a move. He then asks, ”Anyone else?”, looking around at the aliens that have worshipped this creature, but the armies rightfully throw down their weapons and surrender. It was a very cool kick-off moment for the film.

On Earth, Jane (Portman, looking as lovely as ever) is on a first date in London when the pain-in-her-side Darcy (Kat Dennings) runs up to their restaurant table with some new news. Another space anomaly is taking place, leading them to a group of children playing in an abandoned building structure of some kind who claim they have stumbled upon something extraordinary. When Jane witnesses one of the kids turning a gigantic cement truck upside down with merely a finger’s touch, we know something isn’t right – she, Darcy and Darcy’s assistant intern climb some steps to where other children are waiting to show them what else they’ve discovered, which turns out to be an invisible portal to another dimension of some kind. This is evidenced by objects such as cans, keys and shoes being dropped from one of the floors they’re on into the empty center of the abandoned structure where they completely disappear and then re-appear from above them. When some objects end up not returning, Jane does some further investigating around the building until she’s sucked into another dimension herself by a windstorm that develops. Now in the realm containing the Dark Elves’ Aether, she comes in contact with the red-colored “substance” which ends up taking over her body and getting inside her, and when she’s sent back through the invisible vortex to London where Darcy has been waiting for her for five hours, she begins to exhibit strange behaviors.

Dr. Erik Selvig (Skarsgard), meanwhile, has become a raving loon since his encounter with Loki and his magic influence in New York during The Avengers (there’s a few references to the events of that film in this) and ends up on worldwide news when he strips down naked and runs through Stonehenge like a psychopathic madman, eyes widened by some kind of mental mania. He spends his days in a retirement home, hair unkempt and wearing outrageous outfits (later, he runs around in tidy whitties without any pants) babbling to the old people about what he “discovered” now; we get another cool cameo by Stan “The Man” Lee, of Marvel fame, in this scene as one of the old men at the home. Against his father’s wishes, Thor goes to Earth to seek out Jane (it’s never explained how the Rainbow Bridge is repaired after he destroyed it in the first film, which would have theoretically made contact with other realms impossible) and stumbles upon her in London, where he gets a first-hand look at the “new powers” within her from her contact with the other realm and the Aether. He takes her to Asgard to be examined by their medical staff only to be verbally lashed and put down by Odin himself, telling Thor she has no business being on their world so much as a “goat belongs at a banquet.” But that’s not the worst of it – Asgard’s “doctors” can’t figure out what this power and source is inside Jane, only that it has its own violent defense mechanism towards anyone attempting anything remotely aggressive against the girl. Thor keeps Jane on Asgard until they can figure out what they’re dealing with, which is explained to them in short order before they know it.

Loki (Hiddleston), in the midst of it all, has been transferred to a maximum security brig on Asgard for his crimes against Earth, still up to his mischievous plotting and still making obscure, random threats against his own adoptive family members. I have always said that Loki is way too dangerous to be kept alive – whether by SHIELD agents on Earth or by Asgardians – but everyone always has to find out the hard way in all these films; he is, after all, the God of Mischief. Once behind the futuristic, Star Trek-like brig security screen, Loki is left to rot for eternity for his crimes – until a rebellion by some other prisoners in the Asgardian “jail” leads to the escape of a hideous Dark Elves creature that breaks other aliens in the Asgardian collection out of their “cells.” While not immediately broken out of his cell by the creature leading the breakout, Loki is eventually confronted by Thor after the rampaging monster and the other escapees overrun Asgard’s security warriors and make off. Why does he go to Loki? It seems his half-brother knows some secrets about wizardry and the Dark Elves and their legacy that no one else does, and so Thor is again forced to trust the always-unstable Loki. This time, however, Loki is warned by everyone in Thor’s close warrior team that if he even thinks about betraying his brother again, they will kill him. 

With Loki out of his cell and now supposedly helping Thor and Jane, the plot unwinds to expose a storyline that has Asgard defenseless against a newly-uprising Dark Elves attack…what woke them from their slumber (the ones that were left since the last battle with Asgard, that is)? The power of the Aether inside Jane, that’s been “calling” to them. The final frames of the film get a little over-the-top in execution and border on silly when Jane devises a method which allows everyone to “jump” from world to world, realm to realm, while the planets are in alignment – but nonetheless they’re exciting, as we witness Thor and Jane return to Earth to battle Malekith and the Dark Elves who have arrived to begin their project of throwing the universe into total darkness…beginning with Earth. Back on Asgard, a Star Wars-esque battle erupts between attacking Elves and the Asgardians, the shield around the Asgard kingdom eventually falling and leaving it open to attack and infiltration by the alien creatures. The Elves prove too strong and overwhelming for even the best of the Asgardian warriors and weaponry, but Thor attempts to stop the battle at the source – and the final fight sequence begins in London. Thor sees his hands full, even for a powerful “god” such as himself, what with battling the strong Malekith and his monstrous sidekick that broke out of the Asgard prison and who’s now seething to fight Thor. The sequence in which Thor engages this creature was the typical comic film adaptation sequel material – the creature proves way too strong and overpowering even for our hero to handle, smashing Thor this way and that and sending him flying through solid mountains like they’re warm butter. The monster even ends up smashing his iconic hammer far away from Thor’s reaches when the hero attempts to swing it at him, reminding me a little of Batman’s outmatched situation with Bane in Dark Knight Rises. I would have liked to have seen Thor eventually gain the upper hand in this fight and beat the creature himself after honing all his strength and power, but instead Loki comes in to save the day, ramming a dagger into the monster from behind (key things transpire here which I won’t give away, as well as on Asgard earlier in the film with Rene Russo’s character); it’s suggested that Loki, once out of his Asgard prisoner cuffs, would again betray Thor and double-cross him to help in the Elves’ taking over of the universe but apparently this isn’t the case. 

Most annoying to me, after awhile, in this end sequence of the film was the way in which Jane Foster's "gravity field manipulating" device opens these portals to other realms when the planet alignment is taking place, sending Thor, the creatures and aliens he's battling, cars, other people and other objects flying from one realm to another; the whole thing got a bit much after awhile and sometimes I couldn't even tell what I was looking at or where they were. Once you see the film, you'll know what I'm referring to. 

There’s also an underlying theme of some jealousy on the part of Jaimie Alexander’s character, who has a massive crush on Thor, and the Earth mortal he really loves, Jane; the trailers for the film suggested there were going to be “problems” between these two once Jane arrives on Asgard, but this is never really fleshed out. Further, the film concludes with what we think is Odin on the throne in the Asgard kingdom palace but who quickly transforms into Loki – making us wonder what is next with the God of Mischief and what he has done with Odin. As I always said, Loki is way too dangerous and misleading to be kept alive; I’m just personally getting a little tired of the whole Loki angle already…I hope he has nothing to do with the next Avengers or the third Thor film, but I don’t think that’s going to be the case. As always, if you see this theatrically, don’t leave until halfway through the credits because there’s a scene that gives us a glimpse into where the next film might be going (or what may connect to the next Avengers project; hard to say). The sequence depicts Thor’s team members Volstagg (Ray Stevenson) and Sif (Alexander) arriving at some alien “collection laboratory” where they turn in the now-collected Aether so it’s kept safe…but the alien in charge that takes the Aether from them seems to have “other plans” for it once the two Asgardians leave. Look for a cameo appearance by a certain actor in this scene, too. 

Thor: The Dark World was good and somewhat exciting in many places but I think the original was slightly better; it will definitely be a buy when the Blu-ray is released, though, and of course we can all discuss it in that thread when the time comes…but let me know if you’ve seen this yet and what you thought about it!_

[img]http://blog.beliefnet.com/moviemom/files/2013/11/Thor-The-Dark-World-Movie-2013-Review-Official-Trailer-Release-Date-1.jpg[/img]*VIDEO QUALITY ANALYSIS: HOW DID THE DISC LOOK?*

First, I’d like to say from the onset that something felt totally cheap and “corner cut” with this Blu-ray release; I picked up the one-disc, 2D Blu-ray only version from Target and it came devoid of a slip case of any kind or special packaging which really let me down. The disc was housed in the typical Blu-ray case so prevalent when the format first launched – you know, the kinda cheap, flimsy, empty packaging containing just the disc and little else. I really feel like Disney dropped the ball here, and you get an overall sense as you watch the feature itself that ever since they took over the Marvel Studios operations, they have just “dumbed down” these comic adaptation releases – case in point: Warner puts out an awesome digibook package for _Man of Steel_, which was a pretty good film, complete with a stunning holographic overlay cover and intriguing booklet within, while Disney puts out one of the most highly anticipated blockbusters this side of _Titanic_, _The Avengers_, and gives it a rather cheap, thin slipcase? Where was the special love for this massively awaited film? I understand that Warner has the “dibs” on digibook-style releases, but come on…

Physical packaging disappointments aside, _Thor: The Dark World_ didn’t really blow my skirt up in the audio and video departments – especially the audio presentation, which I’ll get to – and now I’m beginning to wonder if I just need an injection of new, updated gear in my system. While definitely clean and sharp in most places, the Blu-ray transfer of the _Thor_ sequel, in Alan Taylor’s 2.40:1 widescreen scope, shared much of the same “somewhat soft and hazy” visuals as the original did on Blu. The prerequisite shots of Asgard and its stunning exterior elements looked as generally fantastic as they did on the first film’s disc from Paramount, but something was missing here that I can’t quite put my finger on…there was something that really kept this release from dipping into “extreme eye candy” territory. 

Facial close ups of Anthony Hopkins, in particular, and the way in which he exhibits a much older looking Odin, were replete with eye-popping detail here, yet a good majority of the running time still showed images that were rather soft and DVD-like in my opinion; on the other hand, the transfer was incredibly clean without any signs of compression noise, grain, mosquito interference or twitching, remaining stable from beginning to end. There were moments of way too much black crush in certain sequences, including those depicting Thor and Loki attempting to fly the Dark Elves’ spacecraft, which made it difficult to see what was going on in the shadows at certain moments. 

But beyond that somewhat nit-picking element, I didn’t sit there last night and view _Thor: The Dark World_ exclaiming to my wife _”Wow! This is incredibly eye-popping! Look at that presentation! Look! Look how those visuals jump off the screen at cha! Do you see that?”_ Okay, maybe I’m going a bit overboard here…but in general, I got the feeling as if Disney “cheapened” this production somehow even though, of course, I can’t “prove” that. 

[img]http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/5280237469bedd8328a2996d/the-13-best-and-worst-things-about-thor-the-dark-world.jpg[/img]*AUDIO QUALITY ANALYSIS: HOW DID THE DISC SOUND?*

The audio was the bigger problem. Indeed, from the very beginning on my system, this 7.1 MA track (collapsed to 5.1 playback for my review) came off as being mastered _extremely_ low with dialogue being difficult to catch until my master volume was cranked way up – even the trailers preceding the feature, in Dolby Digital, were ridiculously low without much wallop at all…utterly surprising, given that almost every Blu-ray I have viewed comes equipped with a bunch of trailers in lossy Dolby Digital that are incredibly loud and wall-shaking, so much so they make the feature presentation sound like a joke. Honestly. Here, both the trailers and the feature seemed to have a mastering issue that rendered them way too ineffective for any kind of involvement until a high master volume was reached.

I am beginning to suspect – and I will look into confirming this – that my AVR’s processor may be in need of a firmware update of some kind, and that perhaps it isn’t resolving some of these tracks at their correct bitrates and such. In the meantime, _Thor: The Dark World_’s English DTS-HD Master Audio track didn’t impress me in the least, save for the LFE section which packed quite a wallop surprisingly, coming across on my system as an extremely low volume, rather un-dynamic mix. Again, I got the overwhelming feeling something was “done” here by Disney to “cheapen” this production algorithm; it’s just difficult to explain, but when you’ve had some experience listening to these tracks over the years like I have, you begin to get a sense of certain elements that may be out of place. Of course, the problem may lie in my AVR’s processor, and I will continue looking into that (attempting to communicate with the infamous-for-its-bad-customer-service Onkyo).

The bass on this track was amazing in certain places – even though I had to crank my master volume way beyond what I normally listen at in order to get involved in this mix due to the aforementioned low mastering level observation, the LFE during certain key sequences shook and pounded our walls and didn’t actually cause my sub to bottom out like a handful of other Blu-ray and DVD tracks do at high volumes. Surround activity, even with my system “downmixing” the 7.1 track to 5.1, could have been a bit more aggressive, I thought, what with all the spacecrafts from Asgard and the Dark Elves whizzing about, but there were moments of startling surround movement from front to back, accompanying directional sequences. 

The main issue with this mix was the sheer low mastering level – this really bothered me. While I have been noting this trend getting worse and worse ever since the release of _Captain America_ on Blu-ray (which I accused of carrying yet another “weak,” soft DTS-HD MA 7.1 mix; confirmed last night when I pulled it off the shelf to watch after _Thor: The Dark World_) and steadily going up to more recent releases like _World War Z, White House Down_ and _Olympus Has Fallen_, in this particular case the mastering level seemed even _lower_. I had to crank my master volume beyond a point I’m not really comfortable with just to get really immersed in the audio and get it “rocking;” the whole thing just came off as being “weak” to me, without much presence until a huge goosing of volume was injected into the situation and while that doesn’t necessarily mean an audio track is “bad” in any way – they all can’t be “overcooked” tracks like the DTS mix of _War of the Worlds_ – I found it odd that the mix was so quiet until I really jacked up my volume…again, though, there may be something in the way my AVR is processing these “newer” DTS-HD MA tracks and I am going to have to look into it.

Then, there’s always the “7.1 tracks being dumbed down on a 5.1 system…” theory to consider again, as well, as we have discussed in here in the past…

[img]http://www.popcorntaxi.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Thor-The-Dark-World.jpg[/img] *FINAL THOUGHTS:* 

For whatever reason, _Thor: The Dark World_ wasn’t as engaging to view at home as it was in the theater, though even there I didn’t think it was an “awesome” comic book adaptation. Much of it delves too much into the _Star Wars_ territory because it deals with events not on our world, for a good part of the run time and much of the CGI work involving the Dark Elves gets too much after awhile. Sometimes I felt like I was watching the CGI-coated remake of _Clash of the Titans_ to be honest; Natalie Portman remains eye candy of the sweetest degree and Hemsworth is still awesome in the lead, while Hiddleston remains dedicated to wringing every last drop of entertainment out of his Loki rendition. The notion that these Dark Elves, a mysterious race from nearly before the cosmos were born, were defeated in ancient battle by Odin’s own father and the Asgard army and then somehow are “alerted” to this “Aether” being re-released because Portman’s character stumbled upon it when investigating an anomaly outside London where she was whisked away to the realm containing the powerful weapon, was a bit much but I suppose you just have to go with it. The Dark Elves wish to destroy Asgard and turn the entire universe into pure darkness with this weapon, but first they need to “take” it from Jane’s body – meanwhile, Thor enlists his brother for help after Asgard’s soldiers are pretty much all wiped out during a prison escape led by a Dark Elves monster and then a subsequent attack by the Elves themselves upon Asgard…and as I said, this all gets a bit too sci-fi-ey after awhile. But I can’t blame the team behind _Thor: The Dark World_ because, in all fairness, the film was supposed to take the action and focus to Thor’s world while touching on the possibility of this alien race (the Elves) attacking Earth or using it to their ends.

Some of the bonus material I watched after the feature was interesting – there’s a cool but too brief look at the upcoming _Captain America_ sequel (though the official trailer played during the last Super Bowl was much more exciting in general) plus a documentary called _A Brother’s Journey_ which looks at the relationship between Thor and Loki while delving into the background of the comic a bit.

For those following the “Marvel Phase Progression” from _Iron Man_ to _The Incredible Hulk_ to _Thor_ and to _Captain America_, watching and buying _Thor: The Dark World_ makes logical sense; in the end, upon close scrutiny, however, it didn’t seem to pack quite the same wallop as some of the other comic adaptations that have come before it.


And _nothing_, still, has reached the plateau Sam Raimi set with his awesome _Spider-Man 2_.


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## tripplej

Looking forward to your review. I saw the first Thor movie back in 2011 and I must admit that I was not that impressed. While the special effects were incredible, the story was not as enthralling.. Don't get me wrong, I thought the first was watchable, just I wanted it to be better. 


Anyways, looking forward to your take here for the second one.


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## B- one

I'm watching this one tonight. I also liked the first one very much let's hope it's close to or better than the first!!


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## Osage_Winter

tripplej said:


> Looking forward to your review. I saw the first Thor movie back in 2011 and I must admit that I was not that impressed. While the special effects were incredible, the story was not as enthralling.. Don't get me wrong, I thought the first was watchable, just I wanted it to be better.
> 
> 
> Anyways, looking forward to your take here for the second one.


Hello, Joe!

Thanks for checkin' in; I actually left my "thoughts" regarding the story in the plot analysis above, though it was based on the theatrical release and how I felt upon returning from seeing it. I will tweak the "Final Thoughts" section of the review with any post-viewing sentiments, etc. 

Look forward to discussing it with ya! :T


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## Osage_Winter

B- one said:


> I'm watching this one tonight. I also liked the first one very much let's hope it's close to or better than the first!!


Hey, Bran!

This is the first time you're watching this? You didn't catch it in theaters?


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## B- one

Osage_Winter said:


> Hey, Bran! This is the first time you're watching this? You didn't catch it in theaters?


Come on the theater?! I'm to cheap. I only bought this one new because it's my birthday. Otherwise it's Family Video a month later for. $9.99. It will be the first viewing if a little munchkin eats her peas so I can kill the lights in the dining room. Stupid living room and open floor plan.


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## Osage_Winter

B- one said:


> Come on the theater?! I'm to cheap. I only bought this one new because it's my birthday. Otherwise it's Family Video a month later for. $9.99. It will be the first viewing if a little munchkin eats her peas so I can kill the lights in the dining room. Stupid living room and open floor plan.


LOL...I gotcha...

Happy Birthday, my friend! :wave:


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## Osage_Winter

*Note: Review has been updated to reflect audio and video analysis sections. *


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## tripplej

Thanks for the update Osage. I didn't see the second one in the theater since I was kind of lukewarm after the first one. I mean, I liked the first one (got a passing rating but not A or anything) but not enough to say, I can't wait for the second one so I skip the theater viewing. I will put this on my rental list. Thanks for the review.


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## Infrasonic

Osage, very good review as always. I haven't watched this at home yet but caught it in the theaters and thought it was OK. They do have a lot of very convenient, or more accurately, lazy plot writing developments in the film but it's still a fun ride.

With your sound issues at what MV level did you have to watch the movie? Have you considered testing your system with a different receiver, maybe you have an electronics store nearby with a generous return policy?


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## Osage_Winter

tripplej said:


> Thanks for the update Osage. I didn't see the second one in the theater since I was kind of lukewarm after the first one. I mean, I liked the first one (got a passing rating but not A or anything) but not enough to say, I can't wait for the second one so I skip the theater viewing. I will put this on my rental list. Thanks for the review.


Hello, Joe, and as always thank you for the reply and kind words...I totally know what you mean about the _Thor_ films; I kinda felt the same way...they were okay, but not some of the most incredible comic adaptations known to man...and the second one even moreso than the first in that regard.

I was surprised that I found the audio so lacking, though; I'll have to re-run this through my system again but I'd be curious to know what you thought -- and others -- after watching it in your system.


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## Osage_Winter

Infrasonic said:


> Osage, very good review as always. I haven't watched this at home yet but caught it in the theaters and thought it was OK. They do have a lot of very convenient, or more accurately, lazy plot writing developments in the film but it's still a fun ride.
> 
> With your sound issues at what MV level did you have to watch the movie? Have you considered testing your system with a different receiver, maybe you have an electronics store nearby with a generous return policy?


Hello, Infra, my friend! And thank you for the reply and kind words; I'd be curious to hear, as I said to Joe above, what your thoughts of the film were once you see it at home (with regard to the audio and video)...

As for your other questions, it's difficult to explain what "level" I was watching at because it's just so relative (in other words, my "numbers" won't mean much to another person based on my calibration values, room, etc.) -- my AVR isn't THX certified nor does it allow for a switchover to a "relative" volume scale to judge the number from reference, instead using an "absolute" ("0-99") scale. To give you a good idea of why I was so let down by the audio, though, for most discs I view, somewhere between "42" and "44" on the volume display is suitable and sometimes downright rocking and aggressive -- on _Thor: The Dark World_, the track didn't _begin_ "heating up" until "46" and even then could have used much more volume goosing.

Your suggestion of testing my system with a different receiver is a good one, though, and I'll look into it as I investigate, through Onkyo, the possibility that my current model may be out-of-date in terms of a firmware platform...


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## B- one

I think the audio seemed a little low, but I'm currently without my center channel . I had this one up about 5 notches past where the wife usually states to complain. We usually listen volume 60-65 on our avr, louder when I'm alone. But the bass was pretty crazy at times.


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## Osage_Winter

B- one said:


> I think the audio seemed a little low, but I'm currently without my center channel . I had this one up about 5 notches past where the wife usually states to complain. We usually listen volume 60-65 on our avr, louder when I'm alone. But the bass was pretty crazy at times.


Thanks for the feedback, Brandon -- glad to hear that the audio, for you as well, seemed "low" (meaning, glad to know that it wasn't my ears or system, perhaps). 

What AVR do you have again -- is it an Onk?

Oh, never mind -- I just saw your gear list; you have an Integra, which should pretty much run the same volume scale as the Onkyos...are you calibrated to reference? Are you running any trim on your IntelliVolume?


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## B- one

We have nothing calibrated properly, other than the display. But maybe when we get the center channel going and get everything reset I can work on that. Here's a pic of the stand I have a guy making for our center channel.


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## Osage_Winter

Nice stand; but what values are your Integra's speaker trims at? Have you at least balanced them out across the front and rear soundstages?


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## B- one

The only thing I did was run a quick setup. The only settings on my AVR right now when I pulled it up was bass +2. Not sure if it got messed up when I took the center out or I'm to tired to pull it up correctly. I have been watching a lot of Netflix and we don't run that through the AVR.


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## Osage_Winter

B- one said:


> The only thing I did was run a quick setup. The only settings on my AVR right now when I pulled it up was bass +2. Not sure if it got messed up when I took the center out or I'm to tired to pull it up correctly. I have been watching a lot of Netflix and we don't run that through the AVR.


Can I recommend some trim settings?


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## B- one

Fire away but it would be a bit before I can get it setup. I'm still waiting for the shelf hopefully he gets it wrapped up this weekend but I won't hold my breath.


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## Osage_Winter

Okay, well then I'll wait until you have everything properly set up. :T

Meanwhile, I have been discussing _Thor: The Dark World_ with other reviewer pals and searching around online to read other takes on the audio and video presentation and it seems that there are indeed some who are finding this "low" or "weak" element to the 7.1 audio here -- most, as always, find the track to be stellar and "beyond reproach" (the way most of the reviews go on sites like Blu-ray.com and those from Ralph Potts over at AVS; I don't think that guy EVER had ANYTHING negative to say about any Blu-ray release's audio or video since the format's launch), but there have been reports coming in that jive with my findings of this track exhibiting a mastering level that's extemely in need of some sonics...:blink: :rolleyesno: :coocoo:


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## Mike Edwards

it may be a hardware setup too. I had the same problem you did with 7.1 tracks being weirdly mixed (especially in the bass) with my old Onkyo 605 that wasn't there with my buddies 7.1 806 (we have the same speakers).. but with my Yamaha 773 that issue is gone. From what I gather it's all about the post processing that's done in the downmix that makes the difference with that particular issue..

as for the volume level... different studios and different processing houses use different volume levels on their mastering.. what volume you have it in the receiver shouldn't matter, if they record it -4db below another mix (think Transformers 2.. the walmart "big screen version" was recorded 4 db below the regular edition's release for some reason) then you just boost the receiver 4 more DB to get the same results. one thing I make sure to do for every movie is level match each movie to the same output DB volume for each viewing. my receiver can be -32 on the receiver dial, or -21 (and I swing all ranges in between depending on the movie mix), but if you level match it's easy to see if their is any flaws in the actual recording, such as anemic LFE, or soft surrounds, or whether the movie just needs to be dialed up a few notches.

oh, and I agree with you on the "cheap" feeling of the 2D release packaging.. Marvel has always had REALLY good packaging, but excluding the DVD from the combo pack and no slipcover really knocked them down a bit with the packaging... Disney at it again trying to mess around with what customers will accept. Reminds me of the "Oz, the great and powerful" debacle


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## Osage_Winter

Mike Edwards said:


> it may be a hardware setup too. I had the same problem you did with 7.1 tracks being weirdly mixed (especially in the bass) with my old Onkyo 605 that wasn't there with my buddies 7.1 806 (we have the same speakers).. but with my Yamaha 773 that issue is gone. From what I gather it's all about the post processing that's done in the downmix that makes the difference with that particular issue..


I didn't realize the 605 had this hardware issue, and that's embarassing because I researched every bit of information about this model before and after purchase, and I'm well versed on just about every "issue" that's been reported -- i.e. the "DTS HD bomb," the overheating problems, the reported abnormalities regarding DTS-HD Master Audio and Dolby TrueHD not being processed at all (or incorrectly) via bitstream when Audyssey 2EQ is engaged, etc...

Still, what's really, really weird is that with most of my "legacy" DVD titles that contain either matrixed or discrete extended mixes -- i.e. _Gladiator Signature Series_ (DTS-ES), _Exorcist: The Version You've Never Seen_ (Dolby Digital EX), _The Haunting_ (1999; DTS-ES) -- there are NO perceived audio issues upon playback through this AVR and my last (an Onkyo 600). And, adding fuel to this proverbial fire, this "issue" of the 7.1 lossless tracks on Blu-ray releases seems to be getting worse with each passing title that comes out -- in other words, when I first played back _Avengers_ and its 7.1 MA mix, it didn't really blow me off my couch, but now that I've heard _Thor: The Dark World_, the _Avengers_ track sounds much better and louder in comparison...and this has gotten progressively worse up to the point of this last purchase and review. Prior to this, I didn't care for the lossless 7.1 mixes that accompany _Captain America_, the first _Thor_, _World War Z_ and a few others; if this is really an Onkyo 605 "thing," I am definitely going to look into upgrading my hardware sooner than later...either that or I am going to have my two back surrounds (already in the ceiling positions) hooked up to make for a 7.1 array to see if there is a difference...

What's funny is that I was always of the opinion that once an AVR's amps are "relieved" of the "back surround" channels, making for a 5.1 setup instead of 7.1, the whole soundstage can breathe a bit better because the AVR isn't as taxed as it would be driving two extra speakers (of course, not much "happens" in these channels even on 7.1 tracks to say nothing of the way they "idle" on 5.1 material unless a matrix approach is applied)...THAT is one of the specific reasons I decided not to bi-amp my RTi12 mains with the back surround channels of the 605...I was under the impression this would yield "greater dynamics" from the remaining "working" channels of the AVR. 

That brings me to this:



> as for the volume level... different studios and different processing houses use different volume levels on their mastering


I'm well aware of this, Mike, as I have been reviewing for quite some time now for a multitude of online and hard print outlets and have quite a few contacts in the industry. I completely understand that each disc isn't mastered at the same level, something I learned rather quickly and painfully in the early days of reviewing DVDs; the thing is, I have found that _most_ of the titles in my collection can be run at around the same level, give or take a few dBs, in order to be satisfying and engaging without whipping the wife into a frenzy about the volume level, and now, with the release of some newer titles a la _White House Down, Olympus Has Fallen, Man of Steel_ and _Thor: The Dark World_ (the last one being the worst example; I have actually come to somewhat like _Man of Steel_'s aggressive audio mix), I have been experiencing extremely "soft," more "hushed" presentations from the tracks at the exact same listening levels (on the actual volume display). THAT concerns me. I find myself having to turn the master volume WAY up to even catch dialogue on most of these new releases; as if there's a blanket over the audio -- way up beyond what we normally would listen at. I know, understand and accept that mastering houses from Sony to Warner all have their compression schemes beyond the AVC video codec in which they implement audio mastering for these releases, and that each track ends up being mastered at varying levels...but what I'm experiencing is worse than this. Which gets me to this:



> what volume you have it in the receiver shouldn't matter, if they record it -4db below another mix (think Transformers 2.. the walmart "big screen version" was recorded 4 db below the regular edition's release for some reason) then you just boost the receiver 4 more DB to get the same results.


I know it literally "shouldn't matter" -- but I _don't like_ the fact that I have to crank my master volume number up WAY beyond what we're normally comfortable leaving it at because in certain circumstances, like with _Thor: The Dark World_, I need to raise it to the point I feel like we're getting awfully close to the maximum limits of the range...and that's not "normal" to me for lossless, high resolution audio. Your example of the _Transformers 2_ disc is an interesting one, because I always felt like that Big Screen Edition boasted better video quality in the IMAX sequences than audio...



> one thing I make sure to do for every movie is level match each movie to the same output DB volume for each viewing. my receiver can be -32 on the receiver dial, or -21 (and I swing all ranges in between depending on the movie mix), but if you level match it's easy to see if their is any flaws in the actual recording, such as anemic LFE, or soft surrounds, or whether the movie just needs to be dialed up a few notches.


I totally understand what you mean about level matching -- and I do that for certain publications I review for that demand more "technical" aspects of the comparisons in the final editorial piece I submit -- but what I'm talking about here is more surface-oriented in terms of watching a film at a certain level I am totally comfortable with and which I know MY equipment performs a certain way at, then throwing in a new release and needing to jack that new title's volume WAY, way up because it's so much lower and less engaging compared to other tracks at that point...know what I mean? Something is just wrong here that a mere mastering level difference really can't explain or justify, and I suspect it's somewhere in the hardware (which gets us back to the first paragraph of this reply, in which you and I were discussing the 605's "behavior" with 7.1 material)...

In other words, let me put it like this: As I explained to Brandon I think it was (or maybe Infrasonic), most of the titles that run through my system can be enjoyed at around a "42" or so level on the volume (as you know, the 605 doesn't offer a "relative" volume scale, just absolute) and that would engross us in aggressive surround activity, nice LFE thump (sometimes too much!) and audible dialogue. When I put _Thor: The Dark World_ in to view and analyze it, I couldn't _hear_ anything until I brought the volume up to at least *"46"* on the same volume display -- and that didn't even get the track "rocking," just adequate in terms of sonics. _You could totally tell this mix was recordered and mastered at a much softer, lower level_ compared to many other discs that have come before it, and I noted this trend occuring with titles like _World War Z_ and the aforementioned _White House Down_ and _Olympus Has Fallen_ (which you and I have discussed in here). 



> oh, and I agree with you on the "cheap" feeling of the 2D release packaging.. Marvel has always had REALLY good packaging, but excluding the DVD from the combo pack and no slipcover really knocked them down a bit with the packaging... Disney at it again trying to mess around with what customers will accept. Reminds me of the "Oz, the great and powerful" debacle


Indeed, Mike; I know exactly what you mean -- I complained about this issue ever since _Avengers_ was released as sort of the "first" release by the company once they took over Marvel Studios' operations. In my opinion, _Avengers_ for Region A (North America) was a joke of a release, physically, for fans, because it was one of the most heavily anticipated films of all time in certain circles and all most of us got was the cheap, thin cardboard slipcase for the combo pack release (albeit with raised relief detailing). Where was the awesome packaging for this? _Man of Steel_ gets a fancy digibook with holographic cover and supplemental editorial materials inside and Universal gives _Fast and the Furious 6_ (and 5 for that matter) a steelbook with special packaging...and _Avengers_ gets a thin slipcase? You can simply "feel" the way Disney is cheapening the Marvel organization in a fashion difficult to describe via words; I even said this when I was describing the way the studio had its hand in the "action" depicted in _Avengers_...it was almost as if you could feel the "Disneyfied" coating all over Whedon's sets and action setpieces, careful not to make them "too" violent...:sarcastic:

Anyway, in getting back to _Thor_, I realize Target offered the lame one-disc 2D version without the DVD (which I picked up and didn't mind the lack of the standard DVD as I don't personally need different versions) as well as the 3D combo pack with a slipcase, but didn't Best Buy offer a steelcase version that sold out rather quickly? How many other versions of this release were there?


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## Mike Edwards

I'm on the run so I'll just reply to a few posts...

the receiver... yeah, it's not just the onkyo 605.. it's certain tiers and certain models of EVERY receiver mfg.. it's been discussed ad nauseum in technical speak that even makes my eyes swirl.. but it all depends on the internal post processing that each company puts into their receivers (and sometimes different processing features in different tiers) that can't be circumvented, or has to be tweaked with the room correction software or with the manual EQ.. I've had receivers from 5 of the top mfgers and each has created a different "tone" to each receiver. my onkyo 605 and 603 both had that issue with 7.1 tracks being slightly "softened" unless I manaully boosted the LFE channel a bit.. and the surrounds never sounded as good as they could have. when I added in a couple rear channels to test it out and turned it to full 7.1 mode those nulls went away.. tested with my buddies 808 (sorry, not the 806 that I mentioned before. I had a senior moment) and the same results on 7.1 mode (he doesn't use 5.1) .. no decreased "ooomph". it's the same thing with using PCM or Bitstream on the receiver. theoretically it shouldn't make a difference, but it sounds different on different receivers (some receivers sound identical with bitstream vs. pcm output, while others literally sound quite different) and from what insiders have been able to ascertain it's whatever post processing sound effects are done on PCM during the transport stream. my Onkyo 605 and 603 was night and day difference, while it is negligible to no difference on my Yammy and my old Pioneer.

on a side note. I'm honestly surprised at you having to boost your volume level THAT much for Thor 2. I double checked my numbers from my review notes and I actually had Thor 2 at -28 on the receiver. while I had it on -26 for Man of Steel.... meaning it was actually having to be boosted 2 full DB on Man of Steel to get the same output....crazy

and as for the different versions. I agree, disney has ALWAYS skimped on the special features and it's getting worse.. it's my main gripe with them right now (that and their DNR on older animated titles)

as for versions

Single disc release ...wide release across all major outlets
3D + 2D release---wide release
Target Exclusvie Loki Slipcover 
Best Buy steelbook... Only about 3000-4000 made from what I gather. most stores only received about 5-10 copies of it and it sold out within hours nationwide. I lucked out and got one for my review


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## Osage_Winter

Mike Edwards said:


> I'm on the run so I'll just reply to a few posts...
> 
> the receiver... yeah, it's not just the onkyo 605.. it's certain tiers and certain models of EVERY receiver mfg.. it's been discussed ad nauseum in technical speak that even makes my eyes swirl.. but it all depends on the internal post processing that each company puts into their receivers (and sometimes different processing features in different tiers) that can't be circumvented, or has to be tweaked with the room correction software or with the manual EQ.. I've had receivers from 5 of the top mfgers and each has created a different "tone" to each receiver. my onkyo 605 and 603 both had that issue with 7.1 tracks being slightly "softened" unless I manaully boosted the LFE channel a bit.. and the surrounds never sounded as good as they could have. when I added in a couple rear channels to test it out and turned it to full 7.1 mode those nulls went away.. tested with my buddies 808 (sorry, not the 806 that I mentioned before. I had a senior moment) and the same results on 7.1 mode (he doesn't use 5.1) .. no decreased "ooomph". it's the same thing with using PCM or Bitstream on the receiver. theoretically it shouldn't make a difference, but it sounds different on different receivers (some receivers sound identical with bitstream vs. pcm output, while others literally sound quite different) and from what insiders have been able to ascertain it's whatever post processing sound effects are done on PCM during the transport stream. my Onkyo 605 and 603 was night and day difference, while it is negligible to no difference on my Yammy and my old Pioneer.
> 
> on a side note. I'm honestly surprised at you having to boost your volume level THAT much for Thor 2. I double checked my numbers from my review notes and I actually had Thor 2 at -28 on the receiver. while I had it on -26 for Man of Steel.... meaning it was actually having to be boosted 2 full DB on Man of Steel to get the same output....crazy
> 
> and as for the different versions. I agree, disney has ALWAYS skimped on the special features and it's getting worse.. it's my main gripe with them right now (that and their DNR on older animated titles)
> 
> as for versions
> 
> Single disc release ...wide release across all major outlets
> 3D + 2D release---wide release
> Target Exclusvie Loki Slipcover
> Best Buy steelbook... Only about 3000-4000 made from what I gather. most stores only received about 5-10 copies of it and it sold out within hours nationwide. I lucked out and got one for my review


With regard to _Thor: The Dark World_, I'm going to have to view it again and listen very carefully once more to see if I experience the same "low output" phenomenon I did the night I viewed it for reviewing purposes...:rolleyesno:

As for the different releases, my Target wasn't carrying the Loki slipcover exclusive variant, unless they were sold out when I finally got there...


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## Osage_Winter

Okay, watched it again last night and was able to feel "comfortable" at a more "normal" volume range (37-40); BUT it was kinda late and I was trying to listen as intently as I did that first night with the disc...indeed, this is a very low-mastered track that seems more aggressively bolstered and "delivering" during heavy action setpieces (which are also accompanied by a great deal of wall-pounding LFE) as compared to when the action eases up and dialogue takes over. During the all-dialogue sequences, the track, to my ears, collapsed into a hushed, incredibly quiet presentation that was overwhelmed by the sudden spikes when the action broke in, making it difficult to balance the mix at one constant volume. I attempted to watch the remainder of the film at a volume of "40" on the Onkyo's master volume readout, and this was suitable, if not utterly house-breaking...

My conclusion is that this could have been just so much better -- many over at AVS are discussing that possibility as well, with many members saying "it wasn't as aggressive as I thought it would be..." etc. 

Anyone else get a chance to view this in their HTs yet?


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## ericzim

Osage_Winter said:


> Okay, watched it again last night and was able to feel "comfortable" at a more "normal" volume range (37-40); BUT it was kinda late and I was trying to listen as intently as I did that first night with the disc...indeed, this is a very low-mastered track that seems more aggressively bolstered and "delivering" during heavy action setpieces (which are also accompanied by a great deal of wall-pounding LFE) as compared to when the action eases up and dialogue takes over. During the all-dialogue sequences, the track, to my ears, collapsed into a hushed, incredibly quiet presentation that was overwhelmed by the sudden spikes when the action broke in, making it difficult to balance the mix at one constant volume. I attempted to watch the remainder of the film at a volume of "40" on the Onkyo's master volume readout, and this was suitable, if not utterly house-breaking...
> 
> My conclusion is that this could have been just so much better -- many over at AVS are discussing that possibility as well, with many members saying "it wasn't as aggressive as I thought it would be..." etc.
> 
> Anyone else get a chance to view this in their HTs yet?


I am going to watch this tomorrow. I will let you know how it shakes out on the Denon.


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## Osage_Winter

ericzim said:


> I am going to watch this tomorrow. I will let you know how it shakes out on the Denon.


Awesome, Eric, thanks! And good to see you on here again, my friend...:T


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## tonyvdb

Watched this two nights ago, My thoughts were the video was great but the audio seem a little too aggressive at times and not enough at other times? The LFE pounded during the really active scenes and was far to low during the lesser action parts.


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## Osage_Winter

tonyvdb said:


> Watched this two nights ago, My thoughts were the video was great but the audio seem a little too aggressive at times and not enough at other times? The LFE pounded during the really active scenes and was far to low during the lesser action parts.


Indeed, Tony; I can concur that your findings were pretty much in line with mine (regarding the audio at least; the video I thought was pretty average for BD) -- something was definitely "off" about this track, where the audio was at times "hushed" and "blanketed" while the LFE stream seemed to overpower the rest. I am chalking this up to Disney and the way they're doing things via their Buena Vista home video release arm since taking over Marvel; this corporation really needs to start getting their stuff together and delivering to enthusiasts instead of wondering what cable network to take over next (because, you know, they just don't have enough capital as it is...:sarcastic.

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## ericzim

OK, just finished watching the movie and wanted to relate my experience with Thor 2.
I found the picture to be lacking in color intensity and the contrast looked rather flat at times. I realize that it is a dark movie but in certain scenes like when the Aether possesses Jane Foster the lack of contrast and shadow was very pronounced. I had no issues with low audio levels throughout the entire movie. I actually had to turn down the LFE output level 2db to avoid the dreaded subwoofer chuff. First time I have had to do that-ever.


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## Osage_Winter

Indeed, Eric, the bass/LFE wasn't the issue on this track...:T


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## ericzim

Osage_Winter said:


> Indeed, Eric, the bass/LFE wasn't the issue on this track...:T


Right, as I mentioned I did not notice any fault with the audio mix during the non-action sequences. Keep in mind that this was a rental BD and not a retail version if that makes a difference.


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## Osage_Winter

ericzim said:


> Right, as I mentioned I did not notice any fault with the audio mix during the non-action sequences. Keep in mind that this was a rental BD and not a retail version if that makes a difference.


On your rental disc, can you confirm if the mix was in lossless DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1?


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## Mike Edwards

The Disney rental disc is identical to retail


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## ericzim

osage_winter said:


> on your rental disc, can you confirm if the mix was in lossless dts-hd master audio 7.1?


dts hdma 7.1


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## Osage_Winter

If they're identical, it's interesting that you (Eric) had "no issues" with the remainder of the mix on display here...

That said, I rewatched the disc yet again last night to primarily catch a second "post-credits" sequence I missed in the theaters and the first few times I watched the Blu-ray, and while I still needed to boost the master volume to higher-than-normal levels to get comfortably immersed (not blown through my walls, mind you), I came to feel a bit more forgiving of the track, really getting swallowed whole by its wallops of thick LFE and channel panning during the "attack on Asgard" sequence with the Dark Elves' ships...


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## Osage_Winter

Also watched _Baggage Claim_ last night and _wow_ was that bad...was even considering stopping the disc midway to eject because I just couldn't stand the overtly chiched, inplausable and downright stupid scenario presentations on display; was thinking of doing a review here, as well, but I honestly don't think it's worth my -- or your -- time. :rolleyesno:


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## ericzim

Osage_Winter said:


> If they're identical, it's interesting that you (Eric) had "no issues" with the remainder of the mix on display here...
> 
> That said, I rewatched the disc yet again last night to primarily catch a second "post-credits" sequence I missed in the theaters and the first few times I watched the Blu-ray, and while I still needed to boost the master volume to higher-than-normal levels to get comfortably immersed (not blown through my walls, mind you), I came to feel a bit more forgiving of the track, really getting swallowed whole by its wallops of thick LFE and channel panning during the "attack on Asgard" sequence with the Dark Elves' ships...


Last night after resetting the LFE back to its normal levels I disabled my 8 inch subs and watched the action scenes again and the low end chuff stopped but in doing so I lost a lot of the mid-bass, not nearly as enjoyable without it.


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## Mike Edwards

ericzim said:


> Last night after resetting the LFE back to its normal levels I disabled my 8 inch subs and watched the action scenes again and the low end chuff stopped but in doing so I lost a lot of the mid-bass, not nearly as enjoyable without it.


time to turn those 8's into 18's ....... I mean...........


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## Osage_Winter

Indeed; there appears to be a good deal of midbass within this track's encode as many of the action sequences rocked my RTi12 mains in addition to the ultra-low stuff I was getting from my 10-inch sub...:hsd: :hsd:


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## ericzim

Mike Edwards said:


> time to turn those 8's into 18's ....... I mean...........


Or just upgrade to four 18's but I would have to build a whole other room for them..:rofl2:


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## Mike Edwards

ericzim said:


> Or just upgrade to four 18's but I would have to build a whole other room for them..:rofl2:


I'm trying to see the downside to this . I have 2 18's right now and am getting ready to build 2 more (that is if I don't upgrade the projector first)


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## ericzim

Mike Edwards said:


> I'm trying to see the downside to this . I have 2 18's right now and am getting ready to build 2 more (that is if I don't upgrade the projector first)


I don't think there is a downside to it unless you don't have the space for them (like me) but I suppose they could be mounted into the floor joists as I believe my span can accommodate. I would be able to go with 4X15" subs in boxes without any problem.


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