# New Home Theater Enthusiast. On a budget



## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Hey everyone, I've been reading a lot of what you've been writing over the past couple of weeks, trying to learn as much as I can before I asked my own questions of the group. After reading many threads I realized I could make it easier on any of my potential advisers to put as much information about what I have and what my intentions for the set up are when its done up front, so here goes. 

I just graduated and moved to SoCal for a job. No TV or any home theater equiptment to speak of. My goal, like I assume everyone elses is, is to create the best system I can afford. That said here is where I stand now. 
TV: LG 47" LW5600 passive 3D (got an incredible deal at Best Buy)
DVD: LG 3D Blu-Ray (bundled with tv)
Gaming: Xbox
Speakers (until I upgrade): Klipsch ProMedia 2.1
Cable: Time Warner with HD
Receiver: None

The DVD, Xbox, and cable all run on hdmi v1.4a qualified cable with the DVD player running through the ARC input on the TV. the room is quite large as it's the living room of my apartment and the floor plan is very open. the main living room itself would measure about 16'x16' but the kitchen adjoins so it feels much larger. 
I know the glaring hole in my system is the lack of receiver. Though the Klipsch, far from Audiophile quality, are more then sufficient right now. the system will primarily be used for music, gaming and video in that order.
My questions are these:
1. I'm looking for a receiver with 7.2 ability for around $450-500 (B-stock or factory refurbs shouldn't be an issue given this forums members glowing recommendations of Accessories4less.com). From that site I've been considering the Onkyo HT-RC270, TX-NR808, TX-NR609 and the Marantz SR6005. 
Budget: $450-$550
2. I'm not too familiar with speakers and the technology that drives them, hence I don't know about the advantages of floor standing speakers versus quality bookshelf style monitors. My set up can accomodate both and I'm not picky one way or the other (I do like the look of floor standing speakers or monitors mounted on stands, but stand mounting isn't a deal breaker). I've seen the EMPTek E5Ti Towers and based on other opinions from this site they would be a good value. my knowledge is severely lacking in bookshelf monitors though.
Budget: $500 for the pair
3. Lastly, I've heard and read great things about SVS, HSU and such. My intention would be to eventually have a 2.2 or 5.2 set up. If I acquire one sub now and one later, how important is it for the subs to match from a sonic standpoint, awssuming one model is no longer available. 
Budget: $200-400 for one

Thank you in advance for any advice you might offer. :bigsmile:

-Future Audio/Videophile


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

A refurbished Marantz 6005 would work great. I am actually testing and writing a review for it right now and have to say that I am more than a little surprised by the results.

For speakers, it all kind of depends on how patient you are. For me there is no comparison between floorstanding and bookshelves; Floorstanding all the way! That being said, if you are looking for a higher end audio experience, I would count on doubling your budget at a minimum for a pair of good floorstanding speakers. A pair of Klipsch WF-35's can be had on Newegg for around $1000 with free shipping. If you are restricted by cost, I would recommend going with an SVS SBS 5 channel setup. These are still higher than the budget you mentioned, but there is a huge difference in sound quality between a $500 setup and one like this.
http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm

Similarly to the speakers, the subwoofer cost all depends on what you want to accomplish. There are some good entry level subs, but if you can boost your budget a bit, Emotiva makes an excellent unit called the SUB-12 for $429 including shipping. http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

I'd kind of figured that floorstanding would be the way to go, given all the love they get in major audio and video magazines and by how many manufacturers of them there are. That being said I can be quite patient and get the Marantz first and wait on the speakers and sub for a few months. 
As for the increased costs, they are definitely something to consider. I don't object at all to increasing my budget if it means getting a better solution that will last awhile. But I'd definitley have to do it in stages which is also fine with me (it's how I built my computer). The emotiva was actually one of the subs I was looking at, so it'll be on my short list and I'll look forward to your review of the 6005

Thanks for the advice!


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

No problem, patience is probably best at this time anyway. CEDIA is happening the week of 9/7 and that's where a lot of companies show off their new models, etc. so there is a potential for some really good sales at newegg and amazon in the coming weeks. Newegg had a stupid deal on the Klipsch recently for $349 shipped! Keep your eyes open and be sure to come back to this thread if you run across something that looks like a great deal and we'll be happy to give any help we can. Additionally, beware of the White Van Scam...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

$700 for both is a great deal. I love neweggs free shipping. I just went on there and saw Martin Logan Motion 10's for $400 ea. What's your opinion of the company and those sapeakers in particular (I'm not looking to move on them now, but mainly for referance in the future). As for thw Hite Van Scam, thanks for the heads up. I'll be on the look out for that when I check out cragslist.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

I like the Martin Logans pretty well, I just feel like for the price there are some better options out there. 

I always try to mention the White Van Scam because one of my team members at the office got taken for about $200. The funny part was that he knew my interest and work on this forum and has seen my home theater, but just didn't think to pick up the phone and call and ask if it was a good deal....:rolleyesno:


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

I'll keep my eyes open for the F-35's if/when they go on sale again then. Any other brands in that same perfromance and price range you'd recommend or that I should be looking out for?


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## I=V/R (May 25, 2011)

Something to look into is the crystal acoustics 5.1 THX certified speaker package. It is 2k total on amazon. This includes 2 towers, 1 12 woofer, 1 center, and 2 surrounds. From what I have read they're pretty nice. They are quite attractive too! I am really admiring the 7.4 setup! If only I had 5k to spare lol.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

It is also worth checking Craigslist for a receiver. What major city do you live in/near in SoCal?

If your primary interest is HT it would be worth it to look into in-wall speakers. You can typically afford more speaker with in walls since you aren't paying for the cabinets and if your primary use is HT, the absolute sound fidelity isn't a must like it would be if your primary goal is music.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

jinjuku said:


> It is also worth checking Craigslist for a receiver. What major city do you live in/near in SoCal?
> 
> If your primary interest is HT it would be worth it to look into in-wall speakers. You can typically afford more speaker with in walls since you aren't paying for the cabinets and if your primary use is HT, the absolute sound fidelity isn't a must like it would be if your primary goal is music.


Actually, it could be argued that sound fidelity is even more critical in HT application as today's audio tracks contain a breadth of frequencies that most music won't come close to.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

Dale Rasco said:


> Actually, it could be argued that sound fidelity is even more critical in HT application as today's audio tracks contain a breadth of frequencies that most music won't come close to.


I didn't say that sound fidelity would be lacking nor unimportant. What I am saying is more akin to not needing a full blown Revel Salon 2 setup to enjoy surround sound for movies. 

So are you debating frequency range or fidelity of reproduction? If the OP is on a limited budget and can, without much effort, do in-walls it is simply a way to stretch the budget.

I have heard some in-wall 11.2 systems that cost the equivalent or less than a 5.2 stand alone system that provided, overall, a much more immersive HT experience while the 5.2 provided a better 2.0 or 2.1 experience. It's about needs set.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

jinjuku said:


> I didn't say that sound fidelity would be lacking nor unimportant. What I am saying is more akin to not needing a full blown Revel Salon 2 setup to enjoy surround sound for movies.
> 
> So are you debating frequency range or fidelity of reproduction? If the OP is on a limited budget and can, without much effort, do in-walls it is simply a way to stretch the budget.
> 
> I have heard some in-wall 11.2 systems that cost the equivalent or less than a 5.2 stand alone system that provided, overall, a much more immersive HT experience while the 5.2 provided a better 2.0 or 2.1 experience. It's about needs set.


Your statement was "the absolute sound fidelity isn't a must like it would be if your primary goal is music." and that's what I was debating. As far as 11.2 in wall speakers go, I have personally never heard an in-wall system that had close to the quality of an equally priced stand alone system. That being said, I have heard some absolutely phenomenal sounding in-wall speakers, but they cost quite a bit of money. If your position is that immersion is somehow preferable to AQ in an HT, then your statement is purely subjective, but then again, so is pretty much everything I have mentioned as well. The only point of my comment was to let the creator of the thread have a differing opinion which would enable them to make a more informed decision.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Phi Delt CaY 4 said:


> 2. I'm not too familiar with speakers and the technology that drives them, hence I don't know about the advantages of floor standing speakers versus quality bookshelf style monitors. My set up can accomodate both and I'm not picky one way or the other (I do like the look of floor standing speakers or monitors mounted on stands, but stand mounting isn't a deal breaker). I've seen the EMPTek E5Ti Towers and based on other opinions from this site they would be a good value. my knowledge is severely lacking in bookshelf monitors though.


Hi. EMPs are nice speakers, but I would spend the extra $200 for some B-Stock E55tis and pass on the sub-par complementing center channel (a phantom center will work great).


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

jinjuku: I like the idea of in-walls in the future at some point, but the apartment complex I live in now would be a little unhappy if I started drilling holes in their drywall and took the speakers when I moved out lol. 
GuaranteedEV: I hadn't seen any B-stock E55Ti's as for a phantom center channel, I'm not sure if I know what you're referring to.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Phi Delt CaY 4 said:


> GranteedEV: I hadn't seen any B-stock E55Ti's as for a phantom center channel, I'm not sure if I know what you're referring to.


http://www.emptek.com/clearance.php - under tall tower speakers. If there are any scratches or dents, it will tell you where on the individual B-stock speaker's info sheet.

a phantom center, means to not use a physical center speaker. The "center channel" in a movie or other multichannel recording, will be redirected to be an image centered between the stereo mains, and in my experience, it just sounds better in the case of these particular speakers.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

Dale Rasco said:


> If your position is that immersion is somehow preferable to AQ in an HT, then your statement is purely subjective, but then again, so is pretty much everything I have mentioned as well. The only point of my comment was to let the creator of the thread have a differing opinion which would enable them to make a more informed decision.


Remember we are talking in the context of the primary use and budget. It's all rather nebulous until you find out what is the goal and what can and can not be done in the listening environment. 

I have heard great and poor in-wall and free-standing systems. I have also heard HT only 9 and 11 in-wall systems that for the surround experience you weren't going to get with a free standing system at the same budget. 

But the OP is in an apartment so figuring out the best free standing system is the order of the day


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

So to the OP: what major city are you in/near? A craigslist search may get you a nice receiver with all the bells and whistles and give you more money to at least get a 3.1 setup.

In another thread a poster was asking about a budget system and $4-500 receiver. A quick search on Clist found a Yamaha RX-V 665 7.2 for $175 in near new shape. $325 will get you a center channel in this instance.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

With a total budget of $1450 (tops?)

2 X Infinity Primus p362's at $320 shipped

1 X Infinity Primus C350 at $140 shipped

2 X Infinity Primus p162 at $150 shipped

So for 5.0 you have $610. If you can find a modern, HD codec supporting, pre-outs (for future expandability) 7.1 or 7.2 receiver for ~$200-300 this leaves you with over $500 for a sub.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

You could round out JinJuku's speakers recommendations with these two and you would be good to go and have enough for a couple of Blurays!

*Receiver:*
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...t2-Plus-100-watts-channel-7.2-Receiver/1.html

*Sub:*
http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub12.shtm


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

jinjuku said:


> So to the OP: what major city are you in/near? A craigslist search may get you a nice receiver with all the bells and whistles and give you more money to at least get a 3.1 setup.
> 
> In another thread a poster was asking about a budget system and $4-500 receiver. A quick search on Clist found a Yamaha RX-V 665 7.2 for $175 in near new shape. $325 will get you a center channel in this instance.


I'm in Huntington Beach, CA. I've done some checking on Craigslist, but given my experience with home theater only goes back a year or so, any receiver models older then 1-2 years are totally unknown to me (as far as the model naming and numbering schemes go) and I wasn't sure about 3D pass through going back that far, but you can credit my naivete for that. I like the 5.0 set up you pointed out. What do you think of running the P362P363s up front by themselves with a sub for a 2.1. For no reason other then I need the receiver before I can get the speakers and then buying the surrounds and center channel later?

@GauranteedEV: Thanks for the link. There's some amazing deals for slightly damaged product! I'll definitely have to look closer at b-stock speakers.


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

Dale Rasco said:


> You could round out JinJuku's speakers recommendations with these two and you would be good to go and have enough for a couple of Blurays!
> 
> *Receiver:*
> http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...t2-Plus-100-watts-channel-7.2-Receiver/1.html
> ...


That's a great looking combination with the Infinity's jinjuki pointed out. I may need to make a move faster then I thought :bigsmile:


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

I think that would give you a great setup and a great value that would last you for quite a while.


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## jinjuku (Mar 23, 2007)

Phi Delt CaY 4 said:


> I'm in Huntington Beach, CA. I've done some checking on Craigslist, but given my experience with home theater only goes back a year or so, any receiver models older then 1-2 years are totally unknown to me (as far as the model naming and numbering schemes go) and I wasn't sure about 3D pass through going back that far, but you can credit my naivete for that. I like the 5.0 set up you pointed out. What do you think of running the P362P363s up front by themselves with a sub for a 2.1. For no reason other then I need the receiver before I can get the speakers and then buying the surrounds and center channel later?
> 
> @GauranteedEV: Thanks for the link. There's some amazing deals for slightly damaged product! I'll definitely have to look closer at b-stock speakers.


Check out this Yamaha RX-V663. It is 7.2 and the asking price is $225 or OBO (so try to get it for $175). Make sure it is coming with the measurement mic. It has pre-outs (sorry, but I will never recommend a receiver with no pre-out capability). 

I checked out Denon/Onkyo/Pioneer and no real deals. There were a lot of inflated prices for Denon for some reason:scratch:


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Don't forget that the Onkyo at AC4L does come with a 1 year warranty.


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

I checked out the Yamaha and it only has 2 HDMI-in connections. I need 3 HDMI-in at the minimum, 4 if I want to hook up my computer to the receiver. Thanks for checking it out though


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## Phi Delt CaY 4 (Aug 26, 2011)

After looking over everyone's recommendations, I'm really liking the Infinity P363's because I couldn't find anyone that will ship the P362's for enough less then Harmon is will ing to sell and ship the P363's and the Onkyo 708 from AC4L.com is looking like the winner because it satisfies pretty much all of my needs (multiple HDMI-ins, 3D pass through, 7.2 with pre-outs for expandibility, etc.). I'm still not solid on the sub, between the Emotiva 12" that was suggested and the SVS's and Hsu's that everyone loves, I'm sure I'll find a winner out of the bunch, but the Emotiva has the early lead. Unless I find a killer deal on Craigslist between now and whenever I pull the trigger, this seems like the best set-up for the money I'm looking to spend. 

Thank you everyone for your input and suggestions to this Home Theater Novice :T


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