# If you had $5500 to spend...Please Help!!!



## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

I've got a 17' x 19' basement space and a $5000 - $5500 electronics budget to work with for a media/bar room. This has to include the TV (Pani 65VT30). Assume $2500 for screen, leaving $2500 - $3000 for the rest. *Our intended use is for 3D movies and some music. Mostly movies though (75/25 split). *

*Somethings I've learned through various reads on this forum:*

 Speakers are more important than receivers
 Studio Reference Speakers are for close proximity 
*I would appreciate suggestions on:*

 Speakers (5.1) Open to bookshelf or floor speakers. No in wall installations in scope
 Sub
 Receiver
 Amp
*Here are some lingering questions:*

 A close friend swears by his Martin Logan ElectroMotion ESL's. I've seen them as low as $750/ea, but are they appropriate considering my intended use and budget? 
 The ML Motion 12's sound great they seem like a real steal at $279/each at Newegg. Are these appropriate for my front speakers considering my budget or should I use them as my rears? Any other suggestions?
 Considering limiting receiver budget to $700 max? Is this appropriate?
 I can get a Pioneer Elite SC-35 @ BB open box for $710. Is this a "no brainer" or should I consider the Marantz 6005 for $599 @ Amazon?

Again, any and all suggestions are appreciated! Thanks in advance folks! :help:

I've attached a copy of my basement plan. 

Cheers!


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Forgot to mention, I'll be adding some sound attenuation paneling throughout the space.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
First off, I would jump on the SC-37 for $710. My Best Buy is selling the same AVR without a Remote for 919. It is an awesome AVR and offers a true 100 Watts+ into 5 Channels. Our Dale Rasco did a fantastic Review of this AVR here.

As for Speakers, I could not be happier with my Martin Logan HT. Our Co-Founder and leader also uses a 5.1 Martin Logan Speaker array. It would place a great deal of stress on even the best AVR, but you could use ML ESL's for your Fronts and Center and non ESL ML's like the Motion 12 for Surrounds. I would use at least a 2 Channel Amplifier on the Fronts however. I do think it would implode your budget to go this way however...

There are a number of other Speaker choices out there. I would go audition some and get an idea what you like. Also, Internet Direct Companies like SVS, HSU, et al, make some fantastic Speakers.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Whoops. Just noticed it is for the SC-35. It has, from all reports, an identical Amplifier Stage as the 37. However, there have been some folks who have gotten the 35 for under 600 Dollars. That being said, I really do not think you will find a better AVR for that price from an Authorized Dealer.
JJ


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

MarLo speakers are great! Setup is a big deal other them so I would suggest visiting Martin Logan's YouTube site for setup. 

I own and love my Vantages and would recombined them to anyone.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Do you have any stores in your area that will let you listen to speakers in your own room (trial period). Unless the ML motions are different, in my experience ML don't come alive until you feed them lots of clean power.

If your not adverse to it have a look at a reconditioned Onkyo from accessories4less

You don't have a source listed, will you be getting a Pany 3D bluray with your plasma or are you look at something from Oppo?

A wall mount for your plasma and cabling will also put a slight dent in your budget.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Logan's can benefit from more power but all speakers do. You can run the ElectroMotion with 100watt amp no problem. Remember even if your amp is rated at 200watts you will likely never sent that much power to your speakers. 

I do agree that getting the right source is very important. Also cabling and brackets/furniture make a big difference.

Edit: difference in price. Cable is cable for the most part.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Whoops. Just noticed it is for the SC-35. It has, from all reports, an identical Amplifier Stage as the 37. However, there have been some folks who have gotten the 35 for under 600 Dollars. That being said, I really do not think you will find a better AVR for that price from an Authorized Dealer.
> JJ


So it turns out the open-box SC-35 from BB has an issue. I hooked it up to my Energy 5.1's and it keeps turning off. I'm taking it back in the hopes that Costco gets it back @ $749 or I find it under $600 like you mentioned. Any particular online retailer you've seen this at for that price? Again, when I get in to this price range, I can get in to a nicely priced Marantz 6005 for under $600. 

Is the Elite > 6005?


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

rab-byte said:


> MarLo speakers are great! Setup is a big deal other them so I would suggest visiting Martin Logan's YouTube site for setup.
> 
> I own and love my Vantages and would recombined them to anyone.


I went to Magnolia yesterday and listened to the ESL series. Very impressed, then the sales guys ran me through the gauntlet of ML products up to the Summit series. Not a good idea IMO, he clearly didn't follow my input on budget, made it sound as if I was cheapening out with the EM ESL's.:nono: When I asked to sample the Motion 12's, he said, "they won't be adequate"


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Andre said:


> Do you have any stores in your area that will let you listen to speakers in your own room (trial period). Unless the ML motions are different, in my experience ML don't come alive until you feed them lots of clean power.
> 
> If your not adverse to it have a look at a reconditioned Onkyo from accessories4less
> 
> ...


I'm leaning towards Oppo. Just need to find the sweet spot with price/feature sets. All I have no is my PS3 for bluray.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

rab-byte said:


> Logan's can benefit from more power but all speakers do. You can run the ElectroMotion with 100watt amp no problem. Remember even if your amp is rated at 200watts you will likely never sent that much power to your speakers.
> 
> I do agree that getting the right source is very important. Also cabling and brackets/furniture make a big difference.
> 
> Edit: difference in price. Cable is cable for the most part.


Cabling can be quite expensive from what I've seen. Do you know what you would budget as a percentage of the total budget towards cabling? I was reading in to the difference between $40 and $140 HDMI cables.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Andre said:


> Do you have any stores in your area that will let you listen to speakers in your own room (trial period). Unless the ML motions are different, in my experience ML don't come alive until you feed them lots of clean power.
> 
> If your not adverse to it have a look at a reconditioned Onkyo from accessories4less
> 
> ...


I'm planning on incorporating cabling as part of my construction budget so I can write it off, not as part of my HT budget. I don't know what my budget should be for cabling though. Do you have suggestions for speaker, HDMI and amp/pre-amp wiring? Thanks in advance.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

BTW, this is by far the best and most responsive HT forum I've been to. I've noticed others have a strong penchant towards lecturing versus providing help and guidance. You people are awesome. Round of applause!:hail:


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Must of us beleive that speakers are a very personal thing and agree that listening to a selection that are in your price range in YOUR room is the way to go, it may take some additional time and effort but it will be worth it.

If you are running cableing in walls check with your buiding code to see if you need plenum rated wire. When cabling my home I purchased bulk from a local Belden supplier. As for HDMI just make sure it is certified 1.4a


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Andre said:


> Must of us beleive that speakers are a very personal thing and agree that listening to a selection that are in your price range in YOUR room is the way to go, it may take some additional time and effort but it will be worth it.


I completely agree with you. My ears tell me to go with the ML's. I'm just want to make sure I'll be doing my Electromtions ESL's justice with the Motion 12's in the rear. 

I think what's left now is my Center, Sub, Amp and receiver. 



Andre said:


> If you are running cableing in walls check with your buiding code to see if you need plenum rated wire. When cabling my home I purchased bulk from a local Belden supplier. As for HDMI just make sure it is certified 1.4a


I'll need plenum rated and will p/u bulk from Belden or check my local. Thanks!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

xmaoo190 said:


> So it turns out the open-box SC-35 from BB has an issue. I hooked it up to my Energy 5.1's and it keeps turning off. I'm taking it back in the hopes that Costco gets it back @ $749 or I find it under $600 like you mentioned. Any particular online retailer you've seen this at for that price? Again, when I get in to this price range, I can get in to a nicely priced Marantz 6005 for under $600.
> 
> Is the Elite > 6005?


Hello,
That is a shame that the SC-35 is defective. Did you ask them to look around the Region to see if any other 35's were available at other stores? I would not hold out hope for Costco getting more 35's. Moreover, you do not have Pioneer Warranty Coverage when purchasing from Costco. I realize Costco has one of the kindest Return Policies extant, but I still prefer having a Manufacturers Warranty.

I have come across one Website that sells Pioneer Elite SC Series AVR's for quite good prices, but they are not Authorized and I know of no one who has dealt with them. I am highly reticent of recommending Grey Market AVR's. I actually never link to them. The 35 was a very notable exception due to their aforementioned RP.

For $600, I would check out Newegg on the Weekends and see if an Onkyo TX-NR809 comes close to that price. Also, some Magnolia's still have the Yamaha Aventage A3000 on Closeout for a fantastic price and it is an excellent AVR. There is also Accessories4less where for $600 you could get a number of AVR's including the Denon AVR-3310 (when they get stock back, TX-NR809 for $679, TX-NR808 for $499, TX-NR1008 for $679
and a slew of other choices. 

I am shocked AC4L now is carrying Denon. This is huge as they really could not be nicer folks to deal with. I have gone to their location in Orlando several times and they really are great to deal with. Mark (Owner) really is a true Audiophile and is quite knowledgeable. The rest of the Staff are quite good as well. They do deal primarily with Refurbished or B-Stock Components, but they are Factory Authorized and offer a 1 Year FW on all B-Stock AVR's whereas Ecost sold Denon B-Stock with a 90 Day Warranty.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I am firm beleiver that the center channel should mirror the mains. So, in your case I would highly recommend that you find a good price on a ML EM-C2. A reconditioned AVR will help save some money. I would suggest looking at the Onkyo line for their robust amplifier stage.

I also don't beleive you need to go as far as the 12s for rear surrund, 2s or 4s maybe, or perhaps the FX on the sides.

A sub can be purchased at a later day if need be. I there is money left in the budget I have yet to find a sub with better price/performace capabilties then the SVS cylindrical varities.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

> Speakers are more important than receivers



Absolutely. You still do want a receiver that's got plenty of voltage and current capability, and has useful preamplifier outputs.



> Studio Reference Speakers are for close proximity


Not at all. In fact some studio montiors are more dynamically capable for large seating distances, than alternatives!!



> *I would appreciate suggestions on:*
> 
> Speakers (5.1) Open to bookshelf or floor speakers. No in wall installations in scope
> Sub
> ...


Here's probably what I would personally go for:

L/R Mains - 2x Philharmonic Audio 2 ($2000)
C - I would not personally bother to swing for a center but Philharmonic does have a center that will soon be available if you so wish.
L/R Surrounds - 2x EMP e5Bi ($250 - or $200/pr if you get 'em from the B-Stock section when available as two pairs are currently)
L/R Rear Surrounds - 2X EMP e5Bi ($250) 

surround wall mounts - I recommend using Omnimount 20.0

Receiver - Denon 4311 (probably best to find a dealer near you locally - should run around $1400-1500 - in terms of features there's none i'd rather have at any price)
Amp to drive L/R mains - Crown XLS 1500 ($400)

Sub - I recommend TWO HSU VTF-15H:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15h.html

I don't think one sub is ever the optimal direction.


Yikes.. I think I blew the budget out of the water. In that case... switch the denon above with something like this Marantz:

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...7ch-3-D-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html

I can't really comment on the pioneer. Hopefully it's got decent pre-outs? Got any reviews that would have any measurements?



> [*] Considering limiting receiver budget to $700 max? Is this appropriate?


$700 MSRP receivers usually lack decent electronic circuitry but $700s is a fine budget for an open box or refurb type of deal for a ~1-1.2k MSRP receiver. That's about the MSRP point where performance starts to become acceptable.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

So I sent an email to Dennis about the Philharmonic II's and he sounds like a great guy! My only concern is not being able to listen to them in person and the sheer size of the speakers. The nearest installed set of III's is 2.5 hours away! Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm going to continue looking for sone other front alternatives, though I'm leaning towards ML (as you can tell). On my way to sample monitor audio today.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

GranteedEV said:


> Here's probably what I would personally go for:
> 
> L/R Mains - 2x Philharmonic Audio 2 ($2000)
> C - I would not personally bother to swing for a center but Philharmonic does have a center that will soon be available if you so wish.
> ...


I'm not familiar with any of the speakers you mentioned but I like what I hear about the PH II's. Do you own a pair of Dennis's speakers or know of someone personally who does? Same with EMP's. 

I've reached out to Dennis since most of the chatter around his speakers relate to technical specs I can't relate to. Consider me a newbie. Luckily he's very responsive and I'm hoping I can hear them in person somewhere or see a YT video. I'm very seriously considering his PH II's.

As far as receivers go, I've narrowed my list down to:

Pioneer Elite SC-35/37 depending on price
Marantz SR6005
Yamaha RX A2000


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Those are all good options for your receiver. I own a pioneer and have installed all the ones you listed. 

One thing about the pioneer you may or may not care about. If your running separate amps the headphone jack does not cut audio to the amp. I don't know if this is the case with all or just the pioneer.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

xmaoo190 said:


> I'm not familiar with any of the speakers you mentioned but I like what I hear about the PH II's. Do you own a pair of Dennis's speakers or know of someone personally who does?


Negative, but I do know enough about these speakers to say that they'd be at the top of my list if I were in the market (...read - if i weren't a broke college student :innocent: ). 



> Same with EMP's.


I own EMP speakers. My mains are currently EMP e55tis and my surrounds are EMP e5Bi. Given how little action surrounds get, I think the e5Bis are perfect surrounds - inexpensive, but with good tonality in that they are never a distraction, and I like the aesthetics. There's plenty of options for surround speakers, but my main thing is to not overspend IMO - i consider L/R mains to be on order of magnitude more important for just about everything so I budgetted accordingly. As long as the surrounds have decent dispersion, and no response abberations I think anything will suffice. I do prefer 7.1 over 5.1 though, personally, so that to me made inexpensive surrounds all the more important.

:TT

Other fine bookshelf size speakers that will do perfectly as surrounds include

-Behringer Truth
-Ascend Acoustics 
-Infinity Primus 
-Aperion Verus Forte
-KEF Q100
-JBL LSR2325P (I do like this option because it has built in amps, which will further take the load off your receiver from driving surrounds)



> Consider me a newbie. Luckily he's very responsive and I'm hoping I can hear them in person somewhere or see a YT video. I'm very seriously considering his PH II's.


Philharmonic is a _very_ recent brand so it hasn't quite had much market penetration but Salk speakers have been around for a while, and Dennis is the crossover designer for many Salk speakers including the Songtowers, HT2-TL, V3, HT3, and Soundscape, so if you can get an audition of those, it'll give you "some" idea of what to expect from the Phils. The Phils in concept are closest to the Soundscape though. There's a lot more subjective feedback and number of owners for Salks if that's what you're looking for.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Just when I thought I was set on the Philharmonic II's, I came across a fantastic deal on a Martin Logan setup that was too good to pass up:

ML Vantage 8" @ $999/ea
ML Depth i Triple-8 Sub @ $999
ML Motif Center @ $799
My wife's going to kill me. :sweat:
I'm considering the following for the remainder of the HT list and would appreciate feedback on them:
*Reciever*: I may be able to get a Aventage 3000 for $700 open box. Is this a good deal?
*TV:* Samsung 64" 8000 Plasma. Around $2000
Thank you all for you contribution to the thread and the amazing advice.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
While you posted these items elsewhere, I will say again that all items are fantastic deals. Each sell more on the Used Market than what you are paying for them and you will have the Manufacturers Warranty. I love my Vantages. Also, the Vantages Retailed for around $6000 a Pair so you are getting an amazing deal. I love my Vantages and paid multiples more than you even though I got them at Dealer Cost 5 Years ago.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The one issue with the Logans is that you will definitely need an Amplifier to get the best out of the Vantages and ideally the Motif. However, especially the Vantages.
JJ


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The one issue with the Logans is that you will definitely need an Amplifier to get the best out of the Vantages and ideally the Motif. However, especially the Vantages.
> JJ


So I've been told. I'm looking at the Marantz MM7055 after I get the speakers burned in. Perhaps I'll find some deals during black Friday.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Good deal. And for living in Canada, those are utterly insane prices. You are truly blessed to have found prices like that on such upper level Martin Logans. You are paying the same for Vantages as you would for EM-ESL's and the Vantages are Made in America and have a built in 200 Watt B&O ICEpower Amplifier and uses an Aluminum Woofer as opposed to the Paper Woofer the the EM. Just an incredible deal. I love my Depth and it is equally adept in HT and Music. Check out the Stereophile Review for the original Depth as the Design is almost identical.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Devils advocate...Too good to be true??

I have heard MLs and like the sound, however my room is one of those "the speakers go here" rooms and I have found (mind you this was years ago) that ML not only Love current but, can be placement picky.

I hopey you can bring the whole set into your home and listen to it prior to commiting to purchase them.

The Emotiva XPA amps are also very nice. Make sure to check the owners manual of the AVR you intend to buy to see if it has main channel pre amp outputs. Also with any luck the internal amps assigned to the main channel to be reassigned to others or turned off completely to give more current to the other amp channels.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Andre said:


> Devils advocate...Too good to be true??
> 
> I have heard MLs and like the sound, however my room is one of those "the speakers go here" rooms and I have found (mind you this was years ago) that ML not only Love current but, can be placement picky.
> 
> ...


Excellent points. Placement is absolutely paramount to getting good SQ. Especially in respect to placing the Speakers at least 3 Feet from the Back Wall. When placed flush with the Wall, they sound horrible as Electrostats are naturally Bipolar and when placed like that you lose that.

In addition, you really do need an Amplifier that can handle 2 Ohm loads. When using an AVR or Amplifier lacking stability, the Highs will be rolled off as it is at the uppermost frequencies where ESL Hybrids go down to the lowest Impedance.

All this being said, I have never been more happy with a Speaker System than I am now. While I spent countless hours tinkering with Placement, the benefits were well worth it.
Cheers,
JJ


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Andre said:


> Devils advocate...Too good to be true??
> 
> I have heard MLs and like the sound, however my room is one of those "the speakers go here" rooms and I have found (mind you this was years ago) that ML not only Love current but, can be placement picky.
> 
> I hopey you can bring the whole set into your home and listen to it prior to commiting to purchase them.


I have 30 days to return but I've heard them at Magnolia at various positions and environments, never been disappointed. The Vantage's were released in 05', after many of the improvements that I've come to like in the Summit X series, some of which are built in to these. I'm sure I'll be happy. Plus, it's fun tuning, right? I was ready to pull the trigger on the ElectroMotion ESL's a month ago for the same price, glad I waited it out.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I love my Vantages. I love my Vantages and paid multiples more than you even though I got them at Dealer Cost 5 Years ago.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I can see from your signature that you and I will have a lot of stories to share about our experiences with the Vantage. I think I'm going to sell the Motif center for now, I don't want to go overboard. I'm sure I'll find it again down the road.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

If your happy we are happy for you. I hope you will also have to ability to audition amps to power those puppies.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> In addition, you really do need an Amplifier that can handle 2 Ohm loads. When using an AVR or Amplifier lacking stability, the Highs will be rolled off as it is at the uppermost frequencies where ESL Hybrids go down to the lowest Impedance.


Eh... unless the phase angle is causing the amp to oscillate at ultrasonic HF, I can't imagine needing more than 20w into 1 ohm at high frequencies on normal program material.

I stick by tecommendation of the crown though, for what it's worth which is 2 ohm stable anyways.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

xmaoo190 said:


> I have 30 days to return but I've heard them at Magnolia at various positions and environments, never been disappointed. The Vantage's were released in 05', after many of the improvements that I've come to like in the Summit X series, some of which are built in to these. I'm sure I'll be happy. Plus, it's fun tuning, right? I was ready to pull the trigger on the ElectroMotion ESL's a month ago for the same price, glad I waited it out.


The Vantages are truly a better Speaker. Even better, they are easier to drive thanks to having a built in 200 Watt Amplifier to power each 8" Woofer. As they retailed for almost 3 times as much, they well should be.

Here are some Reviews on the Vantage:
http://www.normanaudio.com/reviews/104921ML_Vantage_HiFi_News.pdf
http://hometheaterreview.com/martinlogan-vantage-hybrid-electrostatic-loudspeaker-reviewed/
Cheers,
JJ


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

JJ,

I can't seem to find much on the Motif but it seems like it was designed to match the Vantage. Have you heard it anywhere? Even the local AV stores don't have it installed on any system. How do you like your Stage?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I love my Stage. Check out this Review which includes the Stage: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/home...artinlogan-home-theater-system.html?showall=1
The Motif is simply a slightly smaller version of the Stage using 5.25 Inch Woofers instead of 6.5's. Truly is killer for the price.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

sigh...I posted in the wrong post and can't unpost my post to this post which I would have posted to at a later post.


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

Andre said:


> Do you have any stores in your area that will let you listen to speakers in your own room (trial period). Unless the ML motions are different, in my experience ML don't come alive until you feed them lots of clean power.


How do you address the power quality issue? There are so many options. What's the most cost effective?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Outboard Amplification is the way to go. I would do a Search on Audiogon and click on the more options button to enter your Zip Code to see what Amplifiers are available nearby. I have been using Electrostats for over 10 Years and have actually used the same Amplifiers throughout. Parasound makes some excellent ones, as do Rotel, Aragon/Acurus, Adcom, Sunfire, and many others. Many are priced quite reasonably on Audiogon.

You could also use something like the Behringer EP4000. While unbelievably popular, I honestly do not know any ESL Owners who have used this Amplifier with ML's. Sunfires are especially popular with Martin Logan Owners with many at the Owners Club using them.
Cheers,
JJ


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## xmaoo190 (Oct 20, 2011)

So using separates (pre-amp & processor) would fix harmonics/power issue(s)? Or are you saying a receiver/amp combo? I was figuring I'd have to invest in a decent 3 channel like the Emotiva XPA-3 but assumed I would simply be supplying more watts/channel, not clean 120 power to the system. Sorry, but when it comes to amp/pre-amp/processors/receivers, I get lost.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
No issue using an AVR as a SSP. I do this as do many of the Staff here including Owner Sonnie (who also uses ML Speakers) while using Outboard Amplification. The XPA-3 with your AVR should work fine.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Of course a receiver will power the MLs, however, in my humble opinion they won't be happy with it...

According to the Vantage's manual it impedance can drop to 1ohm @ 20khz so I may start off with a receiver (need to power all the other speakers) and have pre amp outputs for the mains that I could "try out" different amps that I could possibly get on loan or are old and on such places as Audiogon. Finding a 2 ohm stable class A/B amp is hard and expensive (there is an old Classe DR-8 on Audiogon), class D on the other had is fairly inexpensive (Behringer INUKE, Crown CTs for example) and you can go to places like Long and Mcquade and posibly try or rent one


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

xmaoo190 said:


> So using separates (pre-amp & processor) would fix harmonics/power issue(s)? Or are you saying a receiver/amp combo? I was figuring I'd have to invest in a decent 3 channel like the Emotiva XPA-3 but assumed I would simply be supplying more watts/channel, not clean 120 power to the system. Sorry, but when it comes to amp/pre-amp/processors/receivers, I get lost.


As long as your AVR has quality preamplifier outputs i've always felt that dedicated processors are a difficult to justify option. Plus in the case of the emotiva stuff it does have higher than usual sensitivity compared to the average amp, so you can use it with even lesser pre-outs. I still personally prefer higher voltage pre-outs with less amplifier gain, but Emotiva likely took that route because their products are much intended for use with lesser AVRs. So as long as your AVR is half decent and has preamplifier outs, I don't see much issue.

IMO the real advantage to better amps in your application, isn't that the martin logans will likely tax AVRs in the top octave, but rather that the headroom of a superior amp in the critical power bands (IE 60hz to 500khz) should result in a more stable soundstage free of clipped signals, when listening at realistic volumes.


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