# Beginner seeking advice



## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Hello Shacksters!

I have recently been looking at different speakers, receivers etc and was hoping i could get some advice.

Heres my setup now;
32" LG LCD 1080p 60hz
Gaming computer(built in soundboard on evga x58 mmotherboard)
PS3 slim
Xbox 360(no hdmi but will probably upgrade soon)
27" monitor with a headphone out slot

I was looking for a starter sound system between $500-$1000. The one that catches my eye is onkyo 9100, which is $800 on newegg right now.


Should i just buy that or is there an better route to go?

Thanks for your time.

Sincerely,
Abyss


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

For $800, the 9100 would be very difficult to beat.

If you were to piece one together for the same money, I'd budget:
$350 AVR
$200 Sub
$250 speakers (5 speakers @ $50/each)

That's pretty tough to do.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2010)

That system does seem to get good reviews and I believe Cnet rated in the best HTIB out of everything they tested.

With that said, the system does seem to have some woes. My problem, the front speakers have a sensitivity of 83db and the rears are 81db 1w/1m. That is VERY low. If memory recalls, it is only rated at THX levels 6' back from the front speakers. The system as a whole is made for a smaller room.

A HTIB is a easy way to do it, but with the Onkyo, you gotta buy new speaker wire and sub cable anyway, so I would not go that rout, and I would try and talk a friend out of it, unless they already bought it, then I'd tell them how great it was. :bigsmile:

Try three of these http://www.amazon.com/BIC-FH6-LCR-6...1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1277138488&sr=8-1 and one of these http://www.amazon.com/BIC-America-F...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1277138488&sr=8-3 For an AVR, I like Onkyo and they have an outlet center at onkyousa.com Later you can add rear speakers when you get more cash. Yamaha makes good stuff to and any decent refurbished, open box, last years model can save a lot of cash. I'm pretty much a bargain shopper, so their is some nice deals out their. Check out your local Best Buy and ask what they have sitting around open box. They will knock about half off and give you the full warranty.

I have not heard the THX in a box system, but every other Onkyo system I've heard is really not all that good. Onkyo makes good receivers, players, and they kind of just throw in the speakers to get you started, but the THX HTIB is supposedly their best yet. Overall, it might end up costing over $800, but think of it this way. The THX in a box retails for $1099 and the BIC (Klispch knock off) speakers and bargain hunted AVR would be about the same, maybe even a tad less. $800 is as low as I've seen that system, and I've looked at it before, but the speakers are not sensitive enough for me, and I have my doubts about the 20hz sub. Maybe -6db? Overall, it is a fair price, but as cheap as those BIC speakers are going for, it would take things to the next level and really pump out some sound.

Thats just my two cents...


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Hey eugo and generic,

So if i went with the three BIC FH6 speakers and the BIC sub you suggested, what would you suggest for a AVR?

would this be a good choice? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003FSTAVY/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

also if i were to get all of that it would bring the price up to $905 dollars not including the required wires that i need.

Would it be smarter to have the sub and the 3 speakers as compared to just going with the onkyo 9100 and upgrading from there?

On another note the room they will be in is quite small as it is a residence room at the university I am attending, at least until i get an apartment next summer. It is probably along the lines of a 10x16 or so if i were to guess.

Sincerely,
Abyss


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Yes, that AVR would be a good choice. I'd budget for some economical surround channels right now, it just adds so much to the experience and doesn't cost much.

Get the speaker wire and cables from monoprice.com


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Here is my suggestion for your budget;
Speakers, Yamaha 333. These have been reviewed very well for a budget speaker, two pr for ~$360 and a NS-C444 for the center ~$100
Dayton Sub-120 HT for a sub at ~155 
and an Onkyo TX-SR 608 for ~425.
I know this puts you over your budget a bit and you would still need some cables and speaker wire. In the long run I think you would be much happier spending a bit more now. Besides, I think this system would be much better than the Onkyo HTiB you are considering.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

I thought I'd throw in my $0.02 just for another perspective..

If I were trying to piece a system together, I think I'd avoid "settling" for a system that you think you'd outgrow. $900 is a decent wad of cash, so I'd want to not get something that I thought of as "disposable". With that thought in mind, here's what I'd probably do..

Buy that Onkyo receiver. You could even shoot for one that's cheaper. Maybe something like this. The only thing I'd check is if the unit has enough of the right connections for your future system (i.e., are there enough HDMI inputs for all the components you'll want to attach.
Next, I'd spend a little more and get a good pair of front left/right speakers. My current go to bang for the buck speaker is the Usher S-520 for $399 delivered.
A sub would be my next purchase. My go to bang for the buck sub is anything from SVS, starting with this for $475+shipping.

That totals out to $1,153 plus some shipping, which I know goes over your budget, but I think would be worth it. I am an audio-nerd after all. :bigsmile:

I'd throw whatever speakers you have lying around, or something that a family member or friend wants to get rid of for surround duties until you could buy something more substantial for the backs... or, if you catch the audio bug, for the fronts while moving the ushers to the back.

Last item to get would be a center channel. It is simulatenously the most important channel as well as the one that you could do without for the longest. 
Why the most important? In a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, most sound from movies comes from the center channel. 
Why can you do without it? A properly setup left and right speaker will image the center amazingly well. 

In any case, whenever you get that center channel, you want to match it as close as possible to the main left and right speaker. I prefer to use the same exact speaker, but barring that, something that is from the same line that has a very simliar timbre would be good. If I were to do it all over again, I'd end up with the same speaker for all the positions in my setup.


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## Guest (Jun 21, 2010)

Too many choices. 

Remember, the OP was looking at a HTIB system and it looks like he's in to games, not audiophile playback.

I just hope he doesn't get confused. I do agree with not settling, but any of the suggestions are going to be better then the markup on HTIB speakers.

How far does he want to take it?

Another affordable option could be this. http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-B2030P-Passive-Monitor-Single/dp/B0002Z82LW The only issue would be placement around a TV using a taller bookshelf speaker as a center. They also don't have speaker covers. Wall mount brackets from HTD.com (the 20lb version) could help angle the center where you need it. Both the speakers and brackets are sold in pairs and singles. Speaking of HTD, they also have level 2 and 3 speakers I would like to hear more reviews about.

If you want to jam really loudly, the horn loaded BICs will work well. If you care more about quality, low distortion, then the higher quality speakers will be better, but any of the suggested speakers will sound better then the Onkyo speakers. Shoot, I'd trust the BIC DV series to out perform any HTIB system, and from what I've heard from HTIB systems (very dull and lifeless) I'd trust $25 speakers to outperform the quality of HTIB speakers. http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...52&AID=1457538&PID=3662453&SID=skim725X577807 Cnet even wrote a crazy review on them. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13645_3-20005175-47.html

I hope all these suggestions don't confuse you.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Agreed, there are quite a few different ways to go that will out perform the Onkyo HTiB .

What is most important to you? Cost? Value? Gaming? Size? Ability to upgrade? Surround sound? Music? Other?


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

I agree about the multiple choices.. the only reason I threw out my suggestion is that a lot of folks don't evn consider building a system versus going with a HTiB. 

However, you do make a good point -- we should find out more about the OP's ultimate goals/prefernces.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Hey everyone, and thanks again for the help.

@ Generic. It is true that i was looking at a HTIB originally but that's due to ignorance on the subject. 

just to let everyone know, I listen to quite a bit of music, If I'm not watching movies or playing games the music is going. That being said i probably listen to music 50% of the time, play video games 25% of the time and watch movies in blu-ray and standard format the other 25%.

Being new to the world of adequate sound systems(I have only owned a set of logitech X-540 computer speakers) I don't really know if low/mid frequencies will stand out as much to me compared to any other person with general experience in the subject.

That being said I really enjoy all the suggestions, many of them are still a little high, as I am a typical poor university student. I was originally thinking of a $1000 dollar MAXIMUM. this being said I will still look at the suggestions because i may "fall" into some random money.

@JCD That is fairly high seeing as i have no connection to older speakers laying around. I live in a rural town with maybe 5000 people, all of which are in left field when it comes to any sort of tech. So i wouldn't be able to find any from anyone laying around. although buying a cheap used set is always an option.

It seems everyone is in support with the SVS subwoofer so i think i will stick that on my "temporary" list. also i really like the looks and specs on the BIC speakers that Generic originally posted and on the Usher S- %20's although i could get 3 of the BIC speakers for 2 of the Ushers.

Can you guys maybe offer a few suggestions to downgrade a tiny bit to get me to below $1000. disclude the speaker/sub wire also.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Haha i forgot to refresh the page and check for new posts so i missed nova and JCD.

As i posted in the last post i would use them for 50% music 25 games and 25 movies.

I obviously want the most bang for my buck but i do want it to be under $1000 dollars, feel free to suggest up to 1200 though. size is not an issue as my room is pretty big for one person. I would also like the surround sound aspect because if I am going to spend that much money on it I'd like it to at least be 5.1. Being upgradeable is also a good factor. In other words i want everything i seems. 

The main thing is bang for your buck in the $1000 range.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

OK, for a real budget system how-a-bout;

3 pr. of these Dayton B652 ~$75 for all six and a Dayton SUB-100 HT at ~$132 and an Onkyo TX-SR508 ~$300. This would be a bit over $500 but, IMO it would be better than the HTiB.

OTOH, if you listen to music that often and are in a small room, my preference would be a good pr. of speakers, a decent receiver and maybe a sub.
PSB Image B25 ~$475 pr.
Aperion Intimus 6B ~$499 pr.
Usher S-520 ~$399
and if you have room for floor standers EMPtek E5Ti at about ~$500
all of these also have equivalent surrounds and centers as well so you can add to the system as funds are available.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm thinking:
Reciever:http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/ONKTXSR607BLK/Onkyo/TX-SR607-90-watts-channel-7.2-Home-Theater-Receiver/1.html -~$300

left, right,Center http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015A8Y3E/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER -~$350

Sub: SVS http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm -~$500

back two (or possibly "4") : http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...52&AID=1457538&PID=3662453&SID=skim725X577807 ~$25 or $50


bringing the total, yes over my budget to 1200 not including speaker wire or banana plugs.

Also, instead of buying three of the Bics, to lower my price i could get 6 of the $25 daytons lowering my total to ~$200 dollars. 

Although i know everyone is pushing the Ushers i really don't know if i want to go without a center speaker.

What do you think is the best variant of these? and how bad it is to have 4 different brand names in the build!
This would have alot of different speakers... What do you guys think is the best variant.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Personally, I'm not a big fan of mixing and matching speakers though others have done it with good success. 

Another budget friendly option (while they are on sale) EMP F300 package and the Onkyo 607 gets you in under $900.

There are still lots of options for you to explore :T


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Mixing fronts is a big no-no, IMHO. Fronts and backs are less critical.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

I think I am going to go by Eugo's original idea of

$350 AVR
$200 Sub
$250 speakers (5 speakers @ $50/each)

only I am going to bump it up to

$350 AVR
$300 sub
$350 speakers.

Now lets just start off with the AVR's. I know some of these are kinda out of the price range but what would be the best of of the:
onkyo RC160
onkyo SR607
onkyo 707

the 707 is most likely the best because well its the most in that aspect, but is it worth an extra ~$50/100?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Abyss Shadow said:


> Now lets just start off with the AVR's. I know some of these are kinda out of the price range but what would be the best of of the:
> onkyo RC160
> onkyo SR607
> onkyo 707
> ...


Most folks will tell you yes, assuming that you're only going to buy an AVR every 5-10 years. Is it worth $10/year...definitely. You get a more solid power section (100W, 4ohm load, THX certified), 1080p upscaling (as opposed to 1080i), 7.2 pre-outs if you ever want to add an amp for more power, a learning remote, and Audyssey MultEQ (as opposed to 2EQ).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I agree the 707 would be the receiver of choice however if your needing to stay within budget then Here is my list:

Onkyo 607 $279

This 5.0 speaker system for $299

and this Velodyne Impact sub for $299


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

The ED A2-250 is a much better deal than the Velodyne at $325 shipped to your door. These ED guys live for bass, build their cabinets like they were going to war, and manufacture right here in Iowa.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

I like that setup alot tony!

I even have $100 to spare. Saying that i want to spend that extra $100 dollars would it be better to try and find a 5.0 set for $399 or could I(and this would blow the budget by ~$50) buy the svs that i know you all love so much.


Also reading Cnet and testfreaks reviews on speakers and subs, they seem to be big fans of Polk, velodyne and wharfdale.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The SVS package would be a nice step up from the ones I pointed out but its your choice as to if you want to top out your budget to get them.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

The thing that a lot of people forget about the SVS package is the shipping charge. For instance, to me it's $180 shipping, so $1180 total.

I'm not saying that it's not a good deal, but we have to count a 15-20% bump for shipping when we recommend the SVS with someone's budget.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Hey guys, i was very vague on what i meant when i said the svs...... what i meant to say would be just the sub from there. Also i fluance system you posted tony, but i don't know if i would be able to set it u right with tower speakers, bookshelf would be best for me. Do you happen to know a good set of speakers with bookshelf fronts for the same price. 

Thanks again everyone for your time, I am so close to buying this and i can't wait to get paid friday to do so!


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

How big of bookshelves? Folks are really high on the Behringer b2030p right now, but they're on the larger size and would require a vertical center channel. Elemental Designs has bookshelves at $150/pair with a matching center for $115. I also think that they offer a great bang for the buck in their subs.

Other inexpensive bookshelves include the Insignia Bass Reflex at Best Buy for $90/pair, and JBL refurbs on ebay.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Hey guys, I have one last question. I am going to be living in a residence with 3 floors, if I get a downfiring sub will this effect the person below me especially?

Heres the system I am ordering next week.

Onkyo 607 $279
This 5.0 speaker system for $299
http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html
ED A2-250 $325

The reason i ask about the down firing is that the ED A2-250 is one. If that were the case, to try and anger as little people as possible i would go for the front firing.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Down firing is going to push the bass down harder than a front firing one. You can lessen the effect by putting carpet and some underlay under the sub but this will also effect the subs output.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Hey again everyone!

Ordered the system tonight. Ended up ditching the flaunce package and going for the EMP package that was suggested on the 2nd page. Couldn't pass up the fact that they also gave free shipping on it too!

Ordered the onkyo 607 from accessories4less

Total is around $1000. still need to buy some cables and bring it across the border!

What should i do for wire, should i go with the 16AWG since its a pretty small room or just grab the 14 for later use. Also what banana plugs should i get in terms of pin crimp type, pin crew type etc(which is your favourite). Also can someone link a good sub wire!

Thanks again for all your time guys and I am so excited to get this wired up and going!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For wire 14awg would be my first choice however there are some here who think 16awg is fine and given your speakers dont draw a huge amount of power 16 will probably do.
For both the speaker wire and the "rca" sub cable Monoprice.com is the best place to get them.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Best and simplest connection is plain wire. If you want things a little neater, or are planning on plugging/unplugging speakers often, go with banana plugs from Monoprice.


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## Abyss Shadow (Jun 21, 2010)

Sooo I am back! with yet another issue i hope that you guys can help me with again. 

I have ordered my speakers and my wiring from emptek(the 599, sale) and monoprice for wires. They both worked out well.

My reciever was to come from Accessories4less.

The perdicament is that I live in canada, I live in a small town with a river going through it where as one side is canada and one is america. given the discounts on electronics in america we usually order from america to a store on that side. The items arrive there and we go pick them up and bring them accross the border.

Accessories has signed an agreement with onkyo to not sell their product to canadians because onkyo has dealerships up here. Also once i bring the onkyo accross i lose warranty on it. I do not mind not having warranty because i can find ways around it, but as far as i understand since the billing address and the shipping address are different, we must comfirm it is actually the card holder ordering it. thats fine, but once we do they will have it saying we are canadian and the shipping will be cancelled.

In order to keep my mother from ripping my head off as well as get what i want. i need to find the onkyo at a similarly cheap price but with the ability to ship it to canada. or from canada. Either that or find a way around this. 

It was the onkyo 607 for 279.99.

Thanks again for your time!


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