# OutLaw LFM-1 Should i buy?



## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi guys, I need some help to make a decision if i should buy this sub or not.

I'm not sure Which model it is but he said it was the original LFM-1, 12" sub 2 ports, 325 watt amp and weighs 58 pounds. Idk maybe this will help us know which model this is.

the guy i'm gonna buy it from says it was barely used and never punshed and would refund my money no problem if i don't like it.

The Lowest price i could negotiate him down to was $200, plus i'm throwing in an old kenwood 5.1 surround sound receiver i think it was one of those cheap all in one surround sound system receivers, i think i paid like $20 for it .

Right now i have an Onkyo 10" sub but it's not even hooked up at the moment.

I have An Yamaha RX-V750 receiver ($50)
Main L+R speakers are Boston Acousic VR1 towers
Center speaker is a Boston Acoustic VRC . ($30 for all 3)

I'm no expert in quality equipment but for under $100 i don't think you can get a better sounding system then what i have right now because it sounds pretty good to me.


Sorry , back to the sub, Should i spend $200 on this sub or am i blowing my money?

please i could use any advice. i don't want to waste my money


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If the sub is in good working order I do not think you are wasting your money.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Did he happen to mention when he bought it? Outlaw has been selling subs for a while, so if it's 6-8 years old it was probably only $350-$400 new. In which case $200 doesn't sound like a very good deal to me.


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

@ $200 this is a steal. Comparing the Dayton Sub1200 @ $150... the the extra $50 more for this Outlaw its no brainer.


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

I'm really confused now... i was under the impression i was getting a pretty good deal on a respectable sub.

Idk when he bought, lets say he bought it when it first came out it would be about 10 years old if i'm not mistaking.. the speaker should still be good if it wasn't abused right? I bought a pair of Polk Audio Monitors that where 20 years old and i was hesitant about buying them until the guy played them for me and i couldn't pull the money out my pocket fast enough.

idk maybe the age of the speaker does matter, that's why i'm here asking for advice if i should buy this sub for $200 or not. The price he paid for the speaker really dosn't matter whether he paid $600 or $1.. If he bought it when it was on sale or being discontinued for a few hunderd or whatever that's better right because that means the speaker is newer as opposed to when it forst came out.

Idk.. i have a decision to make by tomorrow.. The speaker looks in tip top conditon, i believe him that it wasn't abused. He said he'd refung my Money if i wasn't pleased with it.

I would appreciate some more input please ... My system so far the receiver and speakers i have only because i got them for a good price not because i wanted them specificly. 

Is $200 a good deal? 

Can you even get a sub to come close to the OutLaw for $200? 

BUy it... yes or no?


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

I used to own the Outlaw LFM Plus (12"). I paid close to $500 about 4 years back. I am not familiar with the LFM, but I am saying that the Dayton Sub1200 is $150 new and I bet for a mere additional $50 more for that Outlaw it would be a better performer than the Dayton  . 

I am sure that the LFM is about 2-3db less than the Plus, but for $200 it say give it a shot. Also you mentioned that the seller is willing to give you back your money if your not happy with it. So why not try and see? Good luck


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

You used to be apart of these forums under a different name. You would make multiple posts about needing help getting over your problems with buying used equipment:

Don't know why you made a new account, but I wonder?

Buy the sub. If you don't like it send it back.


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

yes i did make a new name because it was a long time since i came to the forum and i forgot my password so it was easier for me to just make a new account.


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

Does anyone think i should not buy this sub?


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

You asked a question.
The people interested answered.
If it's 10 years old $200 + the trade stuff is a premium price (even though the trade stuff is junk).
If it still works and looks perfect it's probably the best $200 sub you can buy.
Apparently you buy/sell/trade audio gear....you know it's never a sure thing...sometimes you win...sometimes you lose.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

jamesfrazier said:


> You used to be apart of these forums under a different name. You would make multiple posts about needing help getting over your problems with buying used equipment:
> 
> Don't know why you made a new account, but I wonder?
> 
> Buy the sub. If you don't like it send it back.


How did you figure out old member with new name?


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## jamesfrazier (Jul 24, 2011)

chashint said:


> How did you figure out old member with new name?


Keen memory. I remembered his posts about buying those VR1s. If you read through his posts from his old account you would remember him too.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

If somebody local was selling it, I'd buy it for $200 and an old receiver.
Whatever model it is, it'll put that Onkyo out to pasture and you won't find any new sub for $200 that will compete.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

jayson1234567 said:


> Does anyone think i should not buy this sub?


I'm still not convinced it's a good deal. A $400-$500 sub that's 10 years old should be around $100, not $200. In its day that unit may very well have been worth every penny of the MSRP, but a decade later it's only depreciated by around 50%? That doesn't sound realistic to me. 75% seems more likely.




jayson1234567 said:


> Idk when he bought, lets say he bought it when it first came out it would be about 10 years old if i'm not mistaking.. the speaker should still be good if it wasn't abused right? I bought a pair of Polk Audio Monitors that where 20 years old and i was hesitant about buying them until the guy played them for me and i couldn't pull the money out my pocket fast enough.


A subwoofer is subject to more stress than a set of speakers, so you can't really compare the life expectancy of the two. The driver in a sub moves quite a bit, and with greater authority, meaning the spider and surround are being pushed more. In addition you have the heat from the amp constantly soaking the magnet and driver cone, both of which contribute to a faster rate of degradation. Combine the movement with the heat and most subwoofers - regardless of cost - are getting toward the end of their usable life after 10 years.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

There's a saying in the watch collecting community, *"Buy the seller, not the watch."* Your choice depends upon the credibility of the seller. If you have to keep asking if anyone wants to discourage you, I think you may have your answer. 

It probably doesn't compare with this used sub, but the NXG BAS-500 is < $300 on Amazon. Several people recommended that to me, and a couple of reviews indicated it was a much better sub than the price (higher than the current price) indicated. I almost ordered one myself.[1] AND ... a new sub will have a warranty, etc.

[1] I spent double, and got what is possibly the only sub I'll never need.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Jayson1234567, it seems to me the majority feels like there is better value to be had elsewhere. I think most would rather see you save until you can purchase the piece you really are after, as opposed to buying one because it happens to be there. "Just cause something is cheap doesn't mean it's a good deal". I'll go with Jim here and say its value would be closer to 100 bucks, than 200, but I wouldn't pay more than 75 bucks. I say pass.


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

Man you guys area tuff crowd to please. lol!!

So looking at the Outlaw LFM-1 the reviews seem to be coming out at around the year 2004. 
Not know when or how long the owner that is selling owned it, I would say 11 years max (if bought in 2004). However judging buy the stats:

● Driver: One 12" Long-throw Woofer
● Amplifier Power: 325 Watts RMS; 1300W peak
● Frequency Response: 25 Hz - 180 Hz ± 2 dB
● Dimensions: 21.75" H x 15.0" W x 22.0" D
● Weight: 58 Pounds
● MSRP: $579 (2 for $999)

The Bash amp if properly working properly that amp alone could sell for $100. So if the sub voice coil is properly working, I think @ $200 is a fair price and if you can get it down lower (its worth a shot) I think it would still be a stellar deal.

Good luck


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

There were not very many respondents to the thread and it was 3 to 2 in favor among the people that actually answered the question.
Proposing alternatives at 50% higher price is a throwaway post.

I think it's the undetermined age of the sub that throws a monkey wrench in the deal.
A ten year old subwoofer (any brand) is reason enough to be cautious.
Actually a used sub (any brand) from a random source is reason enough to be cautious but I am admittedly not a used gear kinda guy.

In fairly typical fashion for infrequent/new members a question is asked (in this case the OP was not satisfied with the answers but answers were given) and then no reply as to whether it was bought or passed on.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

jayson1234567 said:


> yes i did make a new name because it was a long time since i came to the forum and i forgot my password so it was easier for me to just make a new account.


Just BTW, if you remember the e-mail address you registered with, use the "lost password" method to reset it and log in again. Creating a new account every time you visit (infrequently) is sometimes suspect, even if your intentions are good. I'm not criticizing, but I can see how some will suspect someone creating multiple accounts. 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/login.php?do=lostpw



chashint said:


> ... Proposing alternatives at 50% higher price is a throwaway post....


No, not really. User X says, "I'm entertaining the idea of a used [thing] for X dollars from a stranger, out of warranty, no idea how well it's been cared for, should I consider it? is it a great deal?" User Y says, "Well for X dollars plus Y dollars more, you can get [this thing] which is well respected and reviewed, has full warranty coverage in case it fails on you, is it worth saving the money or spending a bit more for a more reliable purchase?" That's not a throwaway post IMHO. 

Unless User X states, "I'm shopping for a [thing] and I don't want to spend more than X dollars." 

You yourself admit to _not_ being a used gear kinda guy (me, too), so I presume you appreciate the VFM proposition of a NEW product versus one used for some unknown period of time, and some unknown level of care or abuse.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

It's all good here.

I would just like to know which direction the OP went on the sub and if he bought it, is he happy with it.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Same here. To my mind, all it takes is one babysitter, or Brother in law, or your kid showing off your rig when your not home, or finding the limits a couple times and that thing is never the same. I think 200 bucks is a better down payment for a future of bass than 10 year old (probably) clapped out time bomb. As said earlier, subs take much more abuse(usually) than speakers. For that reason....I'm out.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Just because I can, I have a comment on the sub. 

If the sub is 10 years old chances are it was not really designed for home theater (music only) I wonder if in reality the Onkyo sub may be just as good given it is designed for lower frequencies. Most subs built 10 or more years ago would cut off at around 30Hz or even higher. 
Just a thought.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

chashint said:


> It's all good here.
> 
> I would just like to know which direction the OP went on the sub and if he bought it, is he happy with it.


Thanks. Yeah me too because every person's experience can contribute to the shared pool of knowledge, or (as in my case) grow an individual's. 

BUT ... someone who doesn't try to reuse a prior login, and just creates a new, one-shot login for a question, may not be interested in that shared pool.  That's why I always urge reusing an existing login -- it builds cred and familiarity. 




willis7469 said:


> Same here. To my mind, all it takes is one babysitter, or Brother in law, or your kid showing off your rig when your not home, or finding the limits a couple times and that thing is never the same. I think 200 bucks is a better down payment for a future of bass than 10 year old (probably) clapped out time bomb. As said earlier, subs take much more abuse(usually) than speakers. For that reason....I'm out.


True. 10 years isn't so old that it's BHT (Before Home Theater), but I'm guessing (correctly?) that some companies' amps may not be as sophisticated at preventing shenanigans like you describe. Ditto on that $200 being a down payment on a better sub with greater assurance of quality and operational lifetime. 

Flip side, some people just want to spill some money on "something now" that will last a year or two, then be chucked. I don't have that much money (or respect what I have more), and don't like littering the world with discarded. NOT implying OP falls into any such buckets. Just blabbing,... waiting for my own new sub, and the 4K remaster of JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH to test it with.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Well, I think you're right on your points. I also think many people will dump $$$ just to have something "now", but I doubt they'd ask for advice. they'd likely just do it. (???) in fairness, when that sub was released in 2004, it reviewed pretty well, and was spec'd down to 25hz. At the the time, that was pretty awesome. Especially when, as Tony mentioned, 30hz was very common, and box stores/"speaker" makers were responsible for most subs people knew about. Even now, SVS, which I consider the Godfather of ID sub companies, is still unrecognized by many "normal" consumers. I just hope the op finds a good value. 
Btw, how's the wait been for you? I hate waiting....


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

Hi guys thanks for all you input.. First i'd like to say i was dead set on buying that sub and i was excited when i saw it for sale because that sub was recommended to me from others on this site when i first joined, but they recomended buying it new when it went on sale. So when i saw it listed on craigs List my eyes lit up and i said to myself finally i will get to feel some real Bass and add A quality Sub to my Pretty good to me ( probably laughable to you) Home theater system that i pieced together solely on deals that i came across or atleast i thought i was getting a deal.

honestly i felt a little bad because i came on here for some advice and got more of a unwelcomed feeling than anything with little advice for which i came.

Yes i did sign up a couple years ago give or take, but it's not like i was tring to hide who i was, i made the same name almost, the old name was jason1234567 i think.. now it's Jayson1234567.

The only reason i changed it was because i wasn't able to log in with my original account... it was a long time ago and i don't rememebr what email i used, it was like 3am so i re-registered. i see no problem with that, if others do i'm sorry. If i was trying to hide who i was then i can see a grief. 

When i originally signed up to this forum i was welcomed by everyone and everyone was nice, and honestly, this forum has helped me more so much it's not funny.

I used to have a pretty bad addiction to buying used speakers and other equipment thinking i was getting a good deal.. Joining this site has saved me alot of money and i havn't bought one piece of equipment since i bought My Boston Acoustic VR1's and VRC (which was a good story btw got all 3 for $30)

I was gonna jump on that OutLaw without thinking twice.. then the night before i was gonna go get it i came back on for some advice. 

i appreciate everyones opinion, and as much as i wanted to buy it, i changed my mind last minute because i was unsure now and i don't have $200 to waste.. Yes i want a real sub, Yes i can wait.

Maybe that Sub would of been worth it, maybe not, i didn't think age would be a factor but someone stated the facts about why age would be a factor on a sub really was what pushed me to back out.

I know my system is nothing compared to most of you guys... But i'd bet the farm if i had one that for under $100 it's almost impossable to get a system that can come close in sound quality.

I'm sorry if i ask too many Dumb questions, i don't want to be the annoying guy on the forum that everyone ignores or bashes. I just need advice because i'm still fighting the urge to buy more speakers and upgrade to a newer receiver. I have a Receiver i might buy tomorrow and a pair of towers i might buy tomorrow but i'll ask for help in the proper thread shortly.

I'm here for help, and i thank everyone for thier opinions, this site has saved me a lot of money since i first joined,

Thanks everyone for your help.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Welcome back to the forum.

If the sub had of been the LFM1 Plus or the LFM1 EX, I would have rated it as a strong buy at $200 assuming it was in good condition and working correctly.


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## koyaan (Mar 2, 2010)

I've had an Outlaw LFM-EX for several years now and have been very pleased with it.
On the other hand, I have a small HSU sub (Hsu makes the subs for Outlaw).After about 8 years of use the amp started to hum and had to be replaced. For that reason alone, I'd be reluctant to buy a 10 yr. old sub.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

Yikes, I just bought a Hsu. I sure hope it has more than 8 years of life in it. 

Jason, I'm sorry if anything I said made you feel bad, I wasn't aiming for that. Some of the replies really were antagonistic to you above and beyond just answering your question, and that isn't good netiquette. It's hard to judge intent online, and presuming an ability to do so is just rude. 

Glad to hear you backed away from that sub. I read another review of the NXG BAS-500 last night, again a reviewer claiming that it exhibited very good definition and performance for a sub costing < $300. I still think you should save up a little and get that or another affordable, highly rated speaker, new in the box where you aren't risking your money on a stranger's assurances about used equipment. 

Then there's SVS, who will let you audition their sub in your home, and pay for return shipping if you're not satisfied. Bit more than $200, but it's hard to argue with a zero risk proposition like that. And their subs are highly regarded in reviews and these forums.

And just for disclosure, I have a pretty modest HT. People here will scoff and snort at my mains and surrounds, not to mention how I have the surrounds installed. Doesn't matter. It all sounds nice to me, suits my budget (I haven't bought speakers in 5+ years, keep upgrading the AVR for features), don't feel inadequate at all. Get what you can afford and like listening to. You shouldnt have to own an expensive reference-grade system just to chat on these forums IMHO.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

willis7469 said:


> ...
> Btw, how's the wait been for you? I hate waiting....



Wait is over. Been testing with several movies, music. Performance is... Amazing! Hsu's test cd from BAS is a big help.


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

Thanks guys for your input and advice, i feel like i just saved $200.

I'm not in a Rush for a new sub, i don't even have the sub i own now connected at the moment, i have my Mains set to large handling the bass for now. 

Would i be better off upgrading my Receiver before adding a new sub?

I have a Yamaha RX-v750, i'm more then happy with the sound quality it produces, actually it's the best receiver i ever owned i got it for $50 and was shocked at the defference in sound quality over the Kenwood receiver i had.

So am i better off upgrading to a receiver with HDmi ports?

Right now i have an Optical cable running from my tv to receiver so anything playing on my tv goes to the receiver. Someone told me i wasn't getting true surround sound like this and i have to get HDMi ports.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

The optical cable will support Dolby Digital and -- I think -- DTS, but that's it. Generally you shouldnt be getting anything fancier than that from the TV. 

I've owned several Yamaha avrs ... that 750 must be showing its age I bought a 663 many years ago and just upped to a 775. 

If youre trying to be frugal, I've seen many recommend accessoriesforless.com (or is it ...4less.com), some avr bargains.

My two cents, if you're not aware of something you cant do with that 750, stand pat and update/upgrade where you feel you NEED to. 


// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are pfft //


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

Well honestly i wouldn't know how to tell if it's showing it's age or not. What would some signs be?

Does it lose power or something?

I mean it sounds great to me. I guess i never really had anything to compare it to besides lower end receivers that make my 750 look like king. 

My only real cooncern is i'm gonna be getting a Dish satelite box and i want to get the best surround sound quality i can. Since i don't have Hdmi, should i keep my current set up as is? or should i connect the Dish box (idk what audio outputs it has) directly to my receiver Via Optical? I'm gonna connect the video HDmi from the Dish box to my Tv.

Would the multi ch input benefit me at all?

Idk, I havn't really been into Home theater sound much, But i'm learning slowly.

I'm Just happy i stopped my impulse buying on almost anything i thought was a deal lol.. it's embarrasing.. i almost had to goto rehab for buying used stuff.


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## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

jayson1234567 said:


> Someone told me i wasn't getting true surround sound like this and i have to get HDMi ports.


They lied. You can still do Dolby 5.1 and DTS with an optical cable from the TV to receiver. Both of those were standard surround sound formats for several years.
If you're looking to do lossless (Dolby TrueHD) formats, that's another story. Optical and digital coax don't handle lossless but you're not going to get lossless formats in a TV broadcast anyways.


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

thanks i appreciate the input. I'm gonna have to settle for what i can get through the optical until i find a good deal on a good receiver. 

Thanks


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't know how long you have had the Yamaha, but if you purchased it in the last year or two I have to ask... Why ?
A simple google of the model number and you can read the owners manual.
It's 2004 vintage.
No HDMI.
No surround sound decoder.
You are not the one that got the deal at $50.
Putting some effort into actually learning a little about home theater/HiFi audio would serve you well.
I do understand not having any money, I have been there. When it comes to buying equipment (especially used equipment) cheapest may not be the best value.
I am not saying you have to become a EE or a speaker designer, but putting some effort into reading before asking generic questions (LFM-1 Should I buy?) or (am I better off upgrading the AVR) and especially doing homework before purchasing would serve you well.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

jayson1234567 said:


> Well honestly i wouldn't know how to tell if it's showing it's age or not. What would some signs be?
> 
> ... Since i don't have Hdmi, should i keep my current set up as is?


That's what I mean right there. If you need an additional digital input or something, and the 750 doesn't have it. Now you're stuck.

Someone on another forum asked for a very basic, < $350 AVR, and I recommended this

http://amzn.com/B00HZE2WW8

Might solve your problems. Nowhere near as many bells and whistles as a 700 series, though.


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## jayson1234567 (Mar 10, 2015)

Hey guys , i was playing around with the settings and i finally got 5.1 DD surround sound playing from my Ps3.

WHEn i bought the Rx-v750 it was about 3-4 years ago, when i bought it i thought i got the best deal on the planet, i guess some of the reveiws can be misleading to someone just getting into home audio. FRom what i read i thought i was getting something great. I mean it sounds better then any receiver i had before but i only had basic entry level kenwood and sony stuff like that.

I havn't had much time to play around and test out the surround sound because i just figured it out a few minutes ago, and i'm watching netfix, i was suprised most movies and shows on netflix offer a Dolby Digial plus 5.1 option or Stereo.. BUt from what i hear so far it sounds good to me.

I have to admit, i'm really itching to see what Receiver i can get that will give me improved sound qualitly over my Old yamaha that i was once proud to own lol.. Atleast i'll get my $50 worth when i use it to hook up a turntable to the Phono Inputs.


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