# Full HT room Equalization



## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Hi guys,

I want to fine-tune my Home Theater room but I don t know what I need for this. Let me try to explain my situation (sorry in advance for my bad English).

I have a nice HT room that was professionally build with the help of a company here in the Netherlands. We began with a 'zero-measurement' and from that point it was building, measuring, building, measuring etc. Now, after 2 years, I have a HT room with a very nice reverberation time http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/198/gemiddeldenagalmtijdein.jpg/. I have added some more basstraps so the 0-100 delay will be a little better than you see in the picture. A new measurement will be done soon.

My room has a Sombra-D panels ceiling, and a lot of basstraps and diffusers.

I am satisfied with the reverberation in my room but next thing I want to look for is a nice frequency response at my listening position. I would like to know if someone can point me in the right direction what I need for this.

My hardware:
- Marantz SR5005 + NuForce MCH-2-C5 (unbalanced/RCA wired)
- Teufel Theater 8 5.1 THX-UltraII speaker set


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> I am satisfied with the reverberation in my room but next thing I want to look for is a nice frequency response at my listening position. I would like to know if someone can point me in the right direction what I need for this.


Are you unhappy with the Audyssey auto-EQ feature your receiver has for the main channels?

Regards, 
Wayne


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

I want to 'know' what s going on and can t read anything with the auto-EQ function of the SR5005 can I? (haven t used it yet because I don t 'trust' Audyssey-auto function. Don t know why this is, just a feeling)


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks, wasn’t sure if you were asking for hardware recommendations or what. A good start would be to take some full-range measurements with REW. For that you’ll need a calibrated mic from a vender like Cross Spectrum Labs, and a USB sound card w/ mic pre-amp such as the Tascam US-122. You can see other soundcard recommendations in the REW Soundcard Database thread.

With this equipment, you can measure the "before and after" results of Audyssey or your own manual equalization.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> I want to 'know' what s going on and can t read anything with the auto-EQ function of the SR5005 can I? (haven t used it yet because I don t 'trust' Audyssey-auto function. Don t know why this is, just a feeling)


While you are right to want to know what's going on, the only tool you have for EQ is Audyssey and, since I believe that it is generally useful, you should use it. Of course, you can always turn it off if you do not like the results and you can actually measure before/after with REW or other measurement tools. You really have nothing to lose.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> While you are right to want to know what's going on, the only tool you have for EQ is Audyssey and, since I believe that it is generally useful, you should use it. Of course, you can always turn it off if you do not like the results and you can actually measure before/after with REW or other measurement tools. You really have nothing to lose.


Hi Kal

Is there any current model manual PEQ you would reccomend for full range


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Phillips said:


> Is there any current model manual PEQ you would reccomend for full range


The only multichannel ones I can think of are both manual and automatic and pricey. ADA/Trinnov, TacT, JBL Synthesis. You can also stack multiples of 2 channel EQs. In addition, some prepros, like the Classe, Krell and Bryston have useful EQs.


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Kal Rubinson said:


> The only multichannel ones I can think of are both manual and automatic and pricey. ADA/Trinnov, TacT, JBL Synthesis. You can also stack multiples of 2 channel EQs. In addition, some prepros, like the Classe, Krell and Bryston have useful EQs.


and just build-in eq. in my SR5005 is just as good as these pricey multichannel eq.?


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Thanks, wasn’t sure if you were asking for hardware recommendations or what. A good start would be to take some full-range measurements with REW. For that you’ll need a calibrated mic from a vender like Cross Spectrum Labs, and a USB sound card w/ mic pre-amp such as the Tascam US-122. You can see other soundcard recommendations in the REW Soundcard Database thread.
> 
> With this equipment, you can measure the "before and after" results of Audyssey or your own manual equalization.
> 
> ...


thanks. Just found a cheap Tascam 144. What is the best mic to use with REW? Do I also need a SPL meter besides a mic?


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> The only multichannel ones I can think of are both manual and automatic and pricey. ADA/Trinnov, TacT, JBL Synthesis. You can also stack multiples of 2 channel EQs. In addition, some prepros, like the Classe, Krell and Bryston have useful EQs.


Thanks Kal

Just for 2 channel only, which ones would you reccomend


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Can you please start your own thread? thxz


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> and just build-in eq. in my SR5005 is just as good as these pricey multichannel eq.?


Nope. But it is much much better than none. :T


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Phillips said:


> Thanks Kal
> 
> Just for 2 channel only, which ones would you reccomend


From experience, the DEQX. It is expensive but very powerful. I just received a sample of the Anti-Mode 2.0 which is much more affordable and, although it it promising, I cannot comment *yet *on its sound/performance. I suggest you take a look at it, though, as the company has a good reputation and record.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

THX-UltraII said:


> Can you please start your own thread? thxz


No worries, just want ot ask Kal one more question.

I thought it might help you as well.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> From experience, the DEQX. It is expensive but very powerful. I just received a sample of the Anti-Mode 2.0 which is much more affordable and, although it it promising, I cannot comment *yet *on its sound/performance. I suggest you take a look at it, though, as the company has a good reputation and record.



Thanks Kal.

Any particualar model of the DEQX?

Where/when will you posting the Anti Mode 2.0 results, i guess Stereophile?

Thanks again


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Phillips said:


> Thanks Kal.
> 
> Any particualar model of the DEQX?
> 
> ...


They are all roughly equivalent in terms of EQ ability and differ mostly in in/out facilities and in control/preamp features.

Yes, of course, in Stereophile.

Kal


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Nope. But it is much much better than none. :T


and what benefits does a pricey high-end eq. offer over the internal eq. on my Marantz?

EDIT: I m running a PRE/PRO setup (Marantz SR5005 with NuForce MCH-2-C5 amplifier (unbalanced connected/RCA). Do I have a benefit with this setup when I want multi-channel eq?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> and what benefits does a pricey high-end eq. offer over the internal eq. on my Marantz?
> 
> EDIT: I m running a PRE/PRO setup (Marantz SR5005 with NuForce MCH-2-C5 amplifier (unbalanced connected/RCA). Do I have a benefit with this setup when I want multi-channel eq?


Higher resolution, better control and customization. The Audyssey in your Marantz will certainly do a competent job but one cannot tweak it at all.


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

I m running a PRE/PRO setup (Marantz SR5005 with NuForce MCH-2-C5 amplifier (unbalanced connected/RCA). Do I have a benefit with this setup when I want multi-channel eq?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> I m running a PRE/PRO setup (Marantz SR5005 with NuForce MCH-2-C5 amplifier (unbalanced connected/RCA). Do I have a benefit with this setup when I want multi-channel eq?


If you are asking if there is a benefit to be gained by adding the DEQX to this setup, my answer is that it is more than likely. My lack of positivity is based on my ignorance of your speakers, room setup and acoustics and personal bias/preference in sound. OTOH, you might be better served by applying the cost of the DEQX to (1) improving the unnamed speakers, (2) improving their setup and room acoustics and/or (3) getting a prepro with Audyssey XT32+Pro. There is no simple answer.


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Thanks for your reply Kal but I think I have to understand something first. What I m trying to ask is it I have the benefit of using a separate pre and pro that I can use multiple (cheap) BFD units in order to be able to eq. all my 6 (5.1) channels. Or is this not possible? (a BFD is put between the pre and pro correct?).

About your other questions:
My speakers are Teufel Theater 8 speakers which are high quality home theater THX-UltraII certified speakers which are really top of the line so not really much space here to gain quality. Second of your question is the placement of my speakers. They are perfectly situated in my HT room with a lot of space (1,5 meter) to the walls. Next there s my room threatment: this was done by a professional. I have a fully Sombra-D ceiling, all side walls have diffusers, in the top corners I have modules to prevent 'flutter echo (called in dutch this way, don t know how to translate it ) and my front and back walls have 3 different kind of basstraps (5 really really big ones).


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> Thanks for your reply Kal but I think I have to understand something first. What I m trying to ask is it I have the benefit of using a separate pre and pro that I can use multiple (cheap) BFD units in order to be able to eq. all my 6 (5.1) channels. Or is this not possible? (a BFD is put between the pre and pro correct?).


Sorry. I do not know anything about the BFDs but I would be careful about inserting devices that force added A/D/A conversions to the signal path. The DEQX is quite transparent as are some others but I cannot speak for the BFDs.



> About your other questions:
> My speakers are Teufel Theater 8 speakers which are high quality home theater THX-UltraII certified speakers which are really top of the line so not really much space here to gain quality.


Never heard of them and their website looks like many others with a bewildering array of stuff that spans everything from mass market toys to somewhat generic HTiB to glossy HT systems. I kinda doubt they make all this stuff as they say and THX certification of speakers means nothing. (Sorry, Tom.) They may be good but I am not encouraged by their "Technical Data" which are completely uninformative.



> Second of your question is the placement of my speakers. They are perfectly situated in my HT room with a lot of space (1,5 meter) to the walls. Next there s my room threatment: this was done by a professional. I have a fully Sombra-D ceiling, all side walls have diffusers, in the top corners I have modules to prevent 'flutter echo (called in dutch this way, don t know how to translate it ) and my front and back walls have 3 different kind of basstraps (5 really really big ones).


Then what are you trying to do?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> What I m trying to ask is it I have the benefit of using a separate pre and pro that I can use multiple (cheap) BFD units in order to be able to eq. all my 6 (5.1) channels. Or is this not possible? (a BFD is put between the pre and pro correct?).


Yes, the BFD (or any equalizer) is connected between your pre-amp and amplifier.

I haven’t found _good_ digital equalizers and their additional A/D/A conversion to be a problem, but the BFD isn’t among them. Put simply, the thing is very noisy, especially with its rear-panel switches set for the +4 position. It looks like you have a really nice system; I was able to find your speakers on the Tuefel website, and I would expect any speaker set costing over $4000 to sound excellent. And you have a nice pre and amplifier as well. The question begs, so you really want to put a $100 equalizer in your signal path? Really?

Good equalizers are not cheap. I’d suggest perusing the “BFD Alternatives” sticky thread for suitable options for full-range equalization.

And it should be noted, you don’t want to attempt any _manual_ full-range equalization without _first obtaining *accurate* full range measurements_ with a program like REW. This will require an investment in the necessary hardware, especially a measurement mic with a custom-generated calibration file. A generic calibration file won’t do. You don’t want to attempt any full-range equalization working from inaccurate measurements.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Thanks for your reply Wayne.

My setup (both acoustically build and HT hardware) is indeed (semi-)professional so I glad you mentioned that quality of the Behringer products which might downgrade my sound quality.

Last weekend I ordered the ECM8000 Basic+ from Cross Spectrum. It is beeing shipped as I speak. I also found a good deal on a Tascam 122 MKII. I also already have a (cheap) analogue dB-meter. Am I good to go with this hardware? Which cables do I need for this hardware when I want to use REW?

I ll follow your advise:
1. Measurements with REW
2. See which eq. is needed in my setup


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Yes, you’re good to go with that hardware. The only cabling you’ll need is a mic cable (w XLR ends) to plug the mic into the US122, and regular RCA cables to connect the US122 to your system.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

So

1. the Tascam LIN OUT goes with a stereo RCA cable into eg. my CD input (rca) of my processor with a regular RCA stereo cable and

2. the ECM8000 calibrated mic. goes into my Tascam MIC IN L and MIC IN R with this cable: http://www.bax-shop.nl/xlr-xlr/proc...-1.50-meter/product-details.html#!prettyPhoto

correct?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

THX-UltraII said:


> 1. the Tascam LIN OUT goes with a stereo RCA cable into eg. my CD input (rca) of my processor with a regular RCA stereo cable and


REW only generates a single output, so if you want the signal into both channels of your system, you'll need an RCA "y" cable.




> 2. the ECM8000 calibrated mic. goes into my Tascam MIC IN L and MIC IN R with this cable: http://www.bax-shop.nl/xlr-xlr/proc...-1.50-meter/product-details.html#!prettyPhoto
> correct?


No need for an XLR splitter: Only one input to the TASCAM is needed, so you just need a regular mic cable:

http://www.zzounds.com/item--SHUC25J

Regards,
Wayne


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Thanks for your reply.

So this one is needed if I want the signal comming from both my FRONT L and FRONT R?
http://www.bax-shop.nl/rca-rca/proc...-1.50-meter/product-details.html#!prettyPhoto

And I plug the single RCA cable in the LEFT or RIGHT of the Tascam rca output?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Correct on both counts! :T

Regards,
Wayne


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## epereira (May 12, 2008)

The Neptune EQ does 7.1 channels (equalizes 7 speakers and a subwoofer) but the company is no longer in business. I have one of their excellent (expensive) units and am sad to say it is up for sale now. And the beauty of it all is that you do not need a computer/laptop as all the processing and calculations are self contained in the unit! More information and links to reviews can be found at:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...equipment/61366-neptune-audios-neptuneeq.html


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## tattoo_Dan (Jan 17, 2009)

THX-UltraII said:


> I want to 'know' what s going on and can t read anything with the auto-EQ function of the SR5005 can I? (haven t used it yet because I don t 'trust' Audyssey-auto function. Don t know why this is, just a feeling)


what I do is run Audyssey then I go in and manually adjust the levels & x-over points,I let the distance & time delay Audyssey sets alone,this works great IMO.

on my avr I can see what Audyssey has done in the menu,I can also make any changes I want to,you should be able to as well .


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