# new toys new problems



## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

hi everyone I did a bad thing yesterday (my wife says so every time) so I end up looking on craigslist for laserdisc players and/or Discs and find one I want (almost always do) so I go to get it. When I get there this guys got a really nice setup so we hang out a while and talk HT. in the process I mention that my front speakers aren't really all that good I had Pioneer CS G403's ok but not great he says hes got a really good set of Cerwin Vega D-9's he'll part with and their awesome lookin no nicks scratches or anything like they were just made yesterday so we hook them up to his Yamaha avr and he cranks them they sound killer and he left them playin while we talked some more after about 45 mins I gotta have them so we struck up a deal (actually bought a whole sony 5.1 system from him) along with ld player and the d-9s well I get them home and and spend all night moving stuff around to make them fit then 4:45 rolls around and the wife gets up to go to work, awesome now its time to see how they sound in my theater so I turn on the system and turn it up I am using a Sony STR-DH820 avr sound is awesome, passing 60 on volume (about all pioneers could take) and the D-9s act like, Really is this all you got so I keep going and they still sound perfect, crisp and clear movie poster falls off wall so I stop there ok i'm happy I think, so I turn it down then off and walk up to equipment rack and oh my god the avr is hot and I mean HOT!!! can't even lay my hand on top of it. now my equip. rack is open in the front avr sits on top shelf with about 2.5" of space above it, back is closed. theres my problem should I try to make more space above avr, add a cooling fan blowing across it or could there be something wrong with speakers I don't know about or is it normal for avr's to run that hot with REAL speakers. Well theres my problem what should I do? ( already checked wiring all is correct) sorry post is so long, any comments will be much appreciated


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

AVRs are typically designed to be operated with more ventilation than yours currently has. Give it more space to breathe and see if that helps. A fan wouldn't hurt, but if you're going to do that I'd recommend opening up the back of your A/V rack if possible, otherwise the air still has nowhere to really go.


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

thanks Peter for the response. I can give the avr 3" more moving all shelves down but that's about it so i'll do it and yes I can open back up so I was gonna put a Hamilton beach true air air filter behind it to blow filtered air over top of it (in back- out front). Does that sound worth the work or should I just find a different rack system that's more open?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Is your receiver able to handle a 4ohm load? those D-9s will be hard to drive.

Note: I just looked up the specifications and no your receiver is not meant to drive 4ohm speakers. if you continue to use them you run a good risk of cooking something in it.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Well, it sounds to me like you were really cranking the volume to try out your new gear which is normal.
Now, is this going to be your normal mode of operation or will you listen at a level that does not knock posters off the wall and damage your hearing ? This is a serious question.
If you will be listening at 'normal' levels give the system a try and see if you actually need to do anything at all.
If it still gets very hot then forced air would be the first thing to try.


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

Tonydbv thanks for your research and I do get your point but the speakers say "4 - 8 Ohm" so does that mean thay can do either or what?

Chashint yeah I probably will not try to knock things off walls a lot but would like to know I can if I want too kinda like having a real Ferrari that can do 200mph as opposed to a fiero with a 4 cyl and a Ferrari body kit if ya know what I mean (best reference I could think of I'm into cars too) but I don't want to risk the AVR or the speakers in the process. I want to do things the right way


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

trying to put a pic of controls on front of speaker to show the 4-8 ohm


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

85ramchargerse said:


> Tonydbv thanks for your research and I do get your point but the speakers say "4 - 8 Ohm" so does that mean thay can do either or what?


The 4-8ohms just means that is its normal operating resistance. However looking at the specifications of the D-9s (See below) they are 4ohms and possibly even lower causing a lot of stress on the Sony receivers amps if you run it at a reasonable level for more than a 15min stretch. The lower the Ohms the closer to a short that speakers are putting on the receivers amps causing heat build up. if the receiver like your Sony is not designed to run a 4ohm load it will eventually cook your amp section.

Specifications:
3 way Floor System
frequency response 29Hz-20kHz
Max Power handling: 400 Watts 
Sensitivity: 1 WATT @ 1 METER: 101 dB MAXIMUM OUTPUT LEVEL(dB)@1 METER DRIVEN TO FULL POWER: 125 dB 
Normal impedance: 4 Ohms


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

thank you for your help
but : what should I do, I want to use these speakers they sound awesome 
a friend said to wire them in series to up the ohms which I tried but the d-9s lost sound quality (so that didn't work)
so i'm assuming I need a new avr or a multi amp set up 
any advice on how to hook them up or to what new avr I need would be greatly appreciated as I love the way these look and sound i'll buy an avr to suit them
If new avr is necessary I need 7.1 and at least 4 hdmi inputs, really need recommendations as I don't want to screw up again

if i'm beating a dead horse and should just forget the d-9s please tell me, I don't want to hear it but I can take it 

Thanks


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well you really only have two options, upgrade your receiver (spending $500) or replace the speakers with something thats smaller.
For a receiver this one is highly recommended.


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

thanks for your input and all your knowledge receiver has been ordered now the two day wait 
thanks again


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Please post back in this thread when you new AVR arrives.
I would like to know your impressions of it after you knock a few posters off the wall.


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

will do and pics and other equipment list is in finished rooms forum here if your interested thread titled "my systems" it will take over the theater room and sony will move to tv room and so on.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

congrats on the new receiver


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

well I Talked to Onkyo today they said this receiver will not work either they said all speakers must be 4 ohm or i'm gonna have the same problem as the sony had. Does this sound right to you? my center and 4 surrounds are all 8 ohm only the d-9s are 4 ohm. do you see this as a problem? i'm getting to the point I wish I had never seen the d-9s

Help i'm pulling my hair out!!!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Im not sure what Onkyo is trying to say as I can promise you that is not the case. The speakers do not have to all be 4 ohm?? trust me it wont be a problem.


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

ok thank you for the reassurance I guess the worst that can happen is I burn up the new avr and i'll just send it back. the guy at onkyo well I don't know how to put it but he seemed like he had no clue. doesn't make me feel too good about giving onkyo my money. but I am going with what you say and your recommendation

The guy at onkyo said and I quote" using 4 and 8 ohm speakers is like putting two different size tires on the rear of a car the transmission is gonna blow up"

the reason I was calling them was to see if there was anything I had to set on the new avr telling it 4 ohm fronts or to just hook everything up and start playing but I guess tech support of onkyo is useless unless your buying a home theater in a box

again thanks for all your help!!!!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

In the receivers menu there will be a setting to select the type of speaker 4 or 8ohm some receivers will say 6ohm or 8ohm use the 6ohm setting.
I think he was confused as your going to be running 4ohm speaker on both front channels. I have a feeling he thought you were going to put one 4 ohm speaker on the left and an 8ohm speaker on the right LOL


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

nope he knew for sure it was 4 ohm fronts 8 ohm center and surrounds I was very sure of my wording and he understood the set up, he said "all speakers must be the same" I probably should have said there was gonna be 3 powered subs I bet he would have said that wouldn't work either, then I would have known onkyo hires day labors with no audio knowledge oh well I will not be calling them again for anything other than to send it back if theres a problem! and I don't think i'll be dealing with them again! I'd rather spend more money and deal with a knowledgeable company

so I guess that's the beginning of my review of it


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The problem is that onkyo customer service (as well as many other manufacturers) is not even located here in North America chances are you were taking to someone over in Malaysia .


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## 85ramchargerse (May 30, 2013)

Ok so new avr came today at 2:30 pm its now 12:35 am so I think I can give a pretty good idea of how I feel about it

First off I'd like to Thank Tonyvdb for your knowledge and help as well as your pointing me to a avr that could do a good job and helping me thru the 4-8 ohm thing, probably stopped me from filling the d-9s with tannerite and seeing how may AK rounds it took to blow them up. But it would have made a great you tube video :rofl:

so then to Chashint i'll try to give you a good first 8 hour review but this is my first so bare with me please

Ok, I now have 4 avrs a Sony STR-DH820 7.2, Onkyo TX-SR504 7.1, Sony STR-DE545 5.1, and now the Onkyo TX-NR809 7.2 (and have had a Pioneer 5.1 a while ago sorry forgot model number) so these are what the 809 is up against.

First up looks and feel, All the other avrs have the same basic look a bunch of exposed buttons and knobs all plastic and about the same weight. The 809 is much more streamline and the buttons and knobs have a much sturdier feel and theres a door on the front hiding all other controls and the door is metal which I like but does account for the 40+ lbs this thing weights. The display is really nice, not to say the others we're bad but the 809 has a much smoother look about it. The only bad thing I can say in this department is I liked the Sony 820's remote better but maybe thats cause I've had it so long I'm used to it so that might change with time.

now hooking it up. Hook up was easy as all the others no difference.I do like that the 809 has a computer like power cord where as all the others just have a non removable cord. Thats about it for hook up.

now for Performance, this ones kinda hard for me cause the sony 820 sounded awesome with the d-9s it was just that overheating thing. Also I added a cerwin vega ve-5c center speaker now which the sony never had, so that has to be taken into account. so will go from there the Onkyo 809 sounds much cleaner (maybe the new center has something to do with that, I'm sure but how much ???) and can go a lot louder without distorting, and so far has only gotten warm to the touch (the sony forget cooking an egg it could burn one instantly) I played the new onkyo for over an hour straight so loud I could only go into the room to start next song and it only got warm. so it does what I wanted (again thank you Tonyvdb can't say that enough). But the menus in this thing are crazy (in a good way) the other avrs were very straight forward this thing I haven't even scratched the surface, menu after menu, one hell of a learning curve, but i'll get it. One thing I don't like and maybe I just haven't found it in the menu yet is the sony had hdmi auto pass thru so when turned off projector still showed picture, the 809, turn it off and screen goes blue. also the 809 came with no manual had to get it off internet. Not happy about that i'd rather have a book than having to keep referring to a pdf. on my laptop but that's me. overall this thing rocks and I think it will only get better as I learn more about it and get thru more of the menus.

only 2 more things I can say right now and that's I did have to call onkyo again for a minor glitch I couldn't get thru and this time I got a real nice knowledgeable guy who helped quickly and didn't act like I was wasting his time and he didn't have a problem with the 4 ohm fronts and I do have to say I think their tech support is in the US otherwise their English coach needs an award even voices in background we're fine, nothing to make me suspect outsourcing so my opinion of onkyo in general has changed just wish I had got first dudes name cause he needs to be fired!!!
and second thanks for the link Tonyvdb but I took the model number and bought thru amazon paid $100 more but I like new items, refurbs scare me and i'm a amazon prime member so I get 2ed day free shipping and I have dealt with amazon alot and I mean ALOT and they have never let me down even the cerwin vega center came from them.

so now I'm searching for new side surround speakers as my KLHs are now the weak point (think i'm going with Infinitys) but we'll see i'm in no hurry the KLHs are doing ok. as I see on this forum a lot home theaters are never really finished

oh yeah posters are now secured to wall, their not falling anymore:flex:

thanks again guys hope this review was acceptable


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I also purchased the 809 some time ago after also being steered in that direction (thanks Tony). I do believe you have the ability to do HDMI pass through though I'm not in a position at this time to look it up. It's buried in that vast menu somewhere but I always watch tv with the AVR on. It definitely will have plenty of juice to power all of the speakers in your setup. As for the remote I traded the Onkyo remote for a Harmony One and it's great so that might be something you'd want to consider. If someone hasn't provided you the info on the pass through by tomorrow evening I'll come back to help you with that. As for the PDF manual I agree I also prefer a hard copy to reference but I just printed it out.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Glad to hear your happy with the 809 

Have you run the auto room correction with the mic yet? thats going to make it sound even better once done.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Glad to hear your happy with the 809
> 
> Have you run the auto room correction with the mic yet? thats going to make it sound even better once done.


I purchased it in October of 2011 so yes I've run the Audyssey about 4 times now. New furniture…ran Audyssey. New rug…ran Audyssey. New sub…ran Audyssey. About to knock down a wall and have a granite top bar installed so soon to run it again.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Thanks for the follow up.
Never any need to apologize about writing your impressions about a piece of gear.
I am glad the 809 is working well for you and you can jam your speakers as loud as you like.


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