# Why I Like Pro Cables



## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

I wanted to post an FYI if anyone has been sitting on the fence about upgrading cables. I would recommend auditioning the cables that were likely used mastering most of the movies and music you already listen to. I do not work for Mogami and in no way am related to the company. I just felt they are overlooked in the consumer market which is a shame. You can read more about them on their website and you can audition their cables at most local shops that sell musical instruments (like Sam Ash or Guitar Center) or sell pro audio gear.

http://www.mogamicable.com/additional/best_cable.php


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Or you can just make your own cables for a fraction of the cost that will function just as well.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Or, you can have the best of both worlds and make your own cables using Mogami cable stock! 

I’ll agree, Mogami is an excellent cable that’s overlooked in the consumer market. I have some cables in my system that I made with Mogami. However, I don’t know that it’s any better than Canare, at least for my purposes, and Canare cable stock is quite a bit cheaper than Mogami (at least mic cables, which is what I use for all signal applications, balanced or unbalanced).

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

I was pushed off the fence toward Mogami's "No Excuses" lifetime cable warranty. Yes, they're covered (even if your dog ate them)!


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Or, you can have the best of both worlds and make your own cables using Mogami cable stock!
> 
> I’ll agree, Mogami is an excellent cable that’s overlooked in the consumer market. I have some cables in my system that I made with Mogami. However, I don’t know that it’s any better than Canare, at least for my purposes, and Canare cable stock is quite a bit cheaper than Mogami (at least mic cables, which is what I use for all signal applications, balanced or unbalanced).
> 
> ...


Nice to meet you Wayne. That sounds like a lot of fun. How much money do you save making a balanced interconnect vs buying one?

I have compared their XLR cables to similarly priced cables from Signal Cable and Blue Jeans Cable and much more expensive cables from Mapleshade. For a long run I find the Mogami was the winner in my system (it also is nice as a subwoofer cable). There is no way I could afford using the Mapleshade on a long run but for 1 or 2 meters it was worth the extra $ to me.

I bought 25 foot XLR Mogami cables for about $70 at Guitar Center.

By the way, how do you like the Adcom Ace 515?


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

tonyvdb said:


> Or you can just make your own cables for a fraction of the cost that will function just as well.


Nice job.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

witchdoctor said:


> Nice to meet you Wayne. That sounds like a lot of fun. How much money do you save making a balanced interconnect vs buying one?
> 
> I bought 25 foot XLR Mogami cables for about $70 at Guitar Center.


Well let’s see, Markertek sells Mogami 2549 for 92c a foot, with two Switchcraft XLRs for under $3 each (or maybe some Neutriks with silver or gold pins, if that floats your boat, for a bit more). So less than $30-35 for a 25 ft. cable, maybe $35-40 adding shipping the supplies. Of course, this assumes you already have all the equipment and tools you need to solder.

Canare L-2T2S is half the price of the Mogami. I made some cables with the Mogami 2549 a couple of years ago and was disappointed that it was not as supple (read “limp”) as the Canare. 

Mogami makes another cable comparably-priced to the Canare L-2T2S, the 2552, but IMO its shield is not nearly as robust as the L-2T2S. Without the built-in noise-rejection properties the balanced signal protocol affords, a good shield is critical for consumer audio – it’s what makes or breaks a first-class unbalanced cable.

My preferences for cables drift more towards functionality, but it sounds like yours are more towards audible improvements, so my comments may be of no relevance to you.

Check out my article on making your own cables, if you’re considering going that route. If you use the same cable stock and connectors as the expensive ones you’ve bought, there should be no sonic difference. Plus a nice thing about making your own is being able to make them the precise length you need, and not stuck with a 6 ft. cable when all you needed was 4 ft.




> By the way, how do you like the Adcom Ace 515?


Been using them for 20 years, and if one of them died I’d hunt down another one. I don’t give much credence to the line conditioning; I mainly like the power management features with on/off delays.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## DqMcClain (Sep 16, 2015)

In theory, the better interconnect cables pay more attention to more minor effects like capacitance over distance. I'm also in favor of good quality cabling, but like Wayne, I can't bring myself to pay retail when I can fabricate my own for a fraction of the price. Mogami cable is good, (though out on the road it's a bit on the fragile side), Canare cable is good, Whirlwind cable is good, ProCo cable is good... I've even had decent experience with Monoprice cable in bulk. I don't bother with any connectors other than Neutrik. They make a reliable product, but in the design they pay attention to details that matter to the guy who has to solder to it. Well thought-out strain relief, decent spacing, consistent numbering... budget connectors miss these details.

Where you really come out ahead in the home application by making your own cables is the ability to make them the exact length you want (+1, Wayne). There's nothing worse than having a few extra feet on each line and having to figure out some way to make it disappear. The other nice thing is when you make them yourself from a bulk spool, you know beyond the shadow of a doubt that your cables match.


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Or, you can have the best of both worlds and make your own cables using Mogami cable stock!
> 
> I’ll agree, Mogami is an excellent cable that’s overlooked in the consumer market. I have some cables in my system that I made with Mogami. However, I don’t know that it’s any better than Canare, at least for my purposes, and Canare cable stock is quite a bit cheaper than Mogami (at least mic cables, which is what I use for all signal applications, balanced or unbalanced).
> 
> ...


Hi Wayne,

Looking at the amount of DIY threads you have posted (and in your system) you seem pretty handy around the workbench. Have you ever measured Canare or Mogami cables? If not no worries, I can probably get what I need from the company directly but was just wondering. Thanks


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Nope, don’t even know now to measure a cable (except for the length I want to cut).

Regards, 
Wayne


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Nope, don’t even know now to measure a cable (except for the length I want to cut).
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Here's the Canare. Most of the manufacturers will give them to you if you ask.


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Nope, don’t even know now to measure a cable (except for the length I want to cut).
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


The Mogami


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

The magomi cable is more of a pro/industry cable being a PVC jacket type which holds up to a bit more abuse than any olefin type insulation. However, the olefin is a better dielectric and is the preferred choice for audio cables. olefin/foam type olefins and/or teflon would both offer lower capacitance in a cable vs. the PVC type. This is measurable and is fact but it's also two fold. Resistance plays a factor too and you want lower resistance and lower capacitance but when you go from a 16awg to a 10awg your resistance goes way down but your capacitance goes up because of the larger gauge wire which is why I'm fixing to move from 10 to 14awg since I don't need the larger cable. capacitance can be lowered in a cable with thicker insulation BUT it also requires a good dieletric and PVC is the worst you can get. Also a factor is the distance between the conductors which is why bonded paired cable works good for balanced connections.


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

Talley said:


> The magomi cable is more of a pro/industry cable being a PVC jacket type which holds up to a bit more abuse than any olefin type insulation. However, the olefin is a better dielectric and is the preferred choice for audio cables. olefin/foam type olefins and/or teflon would both offer lower capacitance in a cable vs. the PVC type. This is measurable and is fact but it's also two fold. Resistance plays a factor too and you want lower resistance and lower capacitance but when you go from a 16awg to a 10awg your resistance goes way down but your capacitance goes up because of the larger gauge wire which is why I'm fixing to move from 10 to 14awg since I don't need the larger cable. capacitance can be lowered in a cable with thicker insulation BUT it also requires a good dieletric and PVC is the worst you can get. Also a factor is the distance between the conductors which is why bonded paired cable works good for balanced connections.


Thanks Talley, would you mind sharing your opinion of one more for us please? 

Speaker Cable consists of:

Conductors:
2x11 AWG (4mm) 99,99% pure solid OFC
Insulation:
PVC layers covered with high quality braided sleeving
Measurements:
11,5 mm OD
Resistance:
0,00126 Ohm pr/ft
Inductance:
0,13 uH pr/ft
Capacitance:
1,9 pF pr/ft
Max current:
62 Amps


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

witchdoctor said:


> Thanks Talley, would you mind sharing your opinion of one more for us please?
> 
> Speaker Cable consists of:
> 
> ...


i dunno. I think cables can/do make a difference but I think of it like this: you have only 1 right cable and the rest muck it up. Belden is a known source with lots... no tons of R&D in cable manufacturing. I trust belden and know that i'm getting the right signal from source to speaker.


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

Talley said:


> i dunno. I think cables can/do make a difference but I think of it like this: you have only 1 right cable and the rest muck it up. Belden is a known source with lots... no tons of R&D in cable manufacturing. I trust belden and know that i'm getting the right signal from source to speaker.


I agree. I like your build threat where you addressed the power and connections first. I do it the same way and start from power first. As for the interconnects and speaker cables I test to find a brand I like and then try and use that brand for all of my connections, just like I would with speakers. I use both objective and subjective testing. 

Your thoughts about PVC are spot on, I'll send you a PM about a consumer cable that uses a unique insulation that has been very successful in my system, but this thread is for Pro Cables. Thanks


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## witchdoctor (Feb 21, 2016)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Well let’s see, Markertek sells Mogami 2549 for 92c a foot, with two Switchcraft XLRs for under $3 each (or maybe some Neutriks with silver or gold pins, if that floats your boat, for a bit more). So less than $30-35 for a 25 ft. cable, maybe $35-40 adding shipping the supplies. Of course, this assumes you already have all the equipment and tools you need to solder.
> 
> Canare L-2T2S is half the price of the Mogami. I made some cables with the Mogami 2549 a couple of years ago and was disappointed that it was not as supple (read “limp”) as the Canare.
> 
> ...


I found the Adcom online, what do you think? How is the SQ?
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/t...cer-2016-03-11-accessories-33020-hollywood-fl


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

This is a pretty old unit, perhaps almost 30 years old. I had one for years in my shop and for what it is intended it worked well. In an electronics shop there is a lot of line noise and emf generated by many devices, including other products in for repair and test equipment. I would use the Adcom on the devices I was testing to be sure that none of the noise that I would find was from external a.c. line sources. It cleaned up what was on the a.c. very well. That said, much of the noise in systems comes from common mode noise or ground loops, for which a line conditioner will generally do little. 

In relation to the topic of the thread, one of the primary characteristics of pro cables is good shielding or balanced connections, both for dealing with non-a.c. line noise issues. They are part of an overall best practice method of dealing with noise that when followed often makes line conditioners irrelevant. My recommendation is always to build or re-design the system to minimize noise, then only resort to line conditioning if there is a problem with line noise specifically that is not dealt with by the power supplies of your components. The vast majority of systems simply don't need it. Some do, and some components do generate their own noise back into the line. Most, however, filter line noise quite well in their power supplies and the noise they generate usually ends up in the system after the power supply anyway.

If you have noise on the line, however, the AC-515 is not a bad solution. My answer to the question about how it sounds is that it has no sound at all, which is as it should be.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm a cable atheist for the most part. I mean isn't the whole point of a balanced cable to virtually eliminate emi/rfi; negating interference with an inverse signal and all...


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm of course talking purely about interconnections.


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## Talley (Dec 8, 2010)

rab-byte said:


> I'm a cable atheist for the most part. I mean isn't the whole point of a balanced cable to virtually eliminate emi/rfi; negating interference with an inverse signal and all...


sorta... but you still can have induced ground voltage on the shielding leading to noise. balanced is not the end all say all but better than unbalanced.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Balanced over short distances (undar25') makes little to no difference. A decent unbalanced cable can achieve the same quality in that distance without issues. 
Balanced was made for "pro audio" concerts, churches, or anything that required long distant runs where normal unbalanced acted like an antenna.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Talley said:


> sorta... but you still can have induced ground voltage on the shielding leading to noise. balanced is not the end all say all but better than unbalanced.


Yup, absolutely. I used to install pro audio systems in large venues, and we did see ground loops at times. It can easily happen, especially in a permanent installation, if you have equipment and the mixing position (consoles, compressors, etc.) powered by circuits on the opposite phase, or even worse different breaker panels, from equipment on the stage (amps, crossovers, etc.)

Regards, 
Wayne


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