# Paradigm vs. Klipsch



## JBrax

Let me first start by saying I am a longtime fan of Klipsch. Tonight I had the pleasure of watching a movie at a childhood friends house that I haven't seen in years. Many of our early years were spent watching movies when we weren't on the court or wrestling mats. Since school he has gone on to make much more money than I could ever imagine making and his setup compared to mine is probably not a fair comparison. To be honest his lifestyle is way beyond mine as his "estate" quickly reminded me as we drove down his tree lined 2.5 mi driveway. To make a long story short the viewing experience I enjoyed this evening was nothing short of lifechanging. Tonight I watched Transformers Dark of the Moon on his Sony VPL-1000ES 4K SXRD Projector while the sound was provided by Paradigm's Signature series. While I really enjoyed the picture throughout the real eye opener was the sound. I have never heard a setup that made me absolutely jealous and embarrased as I did tonight. The worst of this is we watched the exact same movie at my house just 3 days ago and he seemed to be impressed but said "wait until you see and hear this on my setup." Inside my thoughts were yeah you might have me on both picture size and quality my sound can hang with the best of them. How wrong I was! His sound setup was nothing short of amazing and I now know when I someday have a dedicated home theater my choice of speakers WILL be the Paradigm Signature series. He said the cost for his speakers was just south of $20,000 but after what I heard I think it was money well spent. His C5 center was massive and beautiful to both hear and look at. His S8 towers were no less impressive and the equipment rack I know I'll never be able to duplicate. I am a changed man now and my wife knows the saving has begun.


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## chashint

Comparing an RF-82 anchored system even to a Studio 100 anchored system is not a fair comparo, much less comparing to a Signature S8 anchored system, so I would hope the difference would be as you described.
From your description of your childhood buddy those speakers and the rest of his HT system mean less to him financially than your system does to you.
If you can get the wifey on board to save for it that is cool.
The Paradigm Monitor and Studio Series speakers are very nice in their price brackets and are worthy of consideration on a more modest budget.


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## JBrax

I certainly do understand it's not a fair comparison. I've heard many setups in my day and was and still am blown away by what I heard. As soon as my last child finishes college and I have a dedicated room I'm going to start crunching numbers.


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## chashint

It is a glorious day when the nest is finally empty  and even better when the final payment is sent to the bank  suddenly much better toys are available :sn:


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## chashint

I understand about hearing speakers that make you aware of what can be possible, unless I am a Mega-Billion lotto winner (my secret retirement plan) I will never own these http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/Nautilus/Overview.html but in one word they are spectacular.


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## JBrax

I'm not sure I can justify the amount of money required for that setup. My wife says sure after a long list of things are taken care of first. We would also have to give up a couple of scuba diving trips that she holds very dear. Maybe I was dreaming a bit.


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## wgmontgomery

chashint said:


> I understand about hearing speakers that make you aware of what can be possible, unless I am a Mega-Billion lotto winner (my secret retirement plan) I will never own these http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/Speakers/Home_Audio/Nautilus/Overview.html but in one word they are spectacular.


I owned* the Nautilus 802s; two of the best speakers I have ever heard.

*My ex has them now. It's _a bit_ sad considering the fact that when I met her, she thought that cassette tape with Dolby NR was the best sound attainable. :sob:


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## ALMFamily

Jeff,

I heard that same set-up at Warpdrv's house a few months ago and I understand what you mean (he also had 3 DIY LLT 18's (IIRC) in that same set-up) - it really was a great experience. Once he really pumped up those subs, I honestly felt like I was in a boxing ring - they were thumping my chest that hard. But, it was so crisp and clean I was simply astounded.

That said, your system is nothing to be ashamed of - the Klipsch Reference series is a fantastic system itself and you own one of the best subs in the ID market. I would love to come down and check out your set-up sometime.....


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## ALMFamily

wgmontgomery said:


> I owned* the Nautilus 802s; two of the best speakers I have ever heard.
> 
> *My ex has them now. It's _a bit_ sad considering the fact that when I met her, she thought that cassette tape with Dolby NR was the best sound attainable. :sob:


All I can say is :doh:


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## JBrax

ALMFamily said:


> Jeff,
> 
> I heard that same set-up at Warpdrv's house a few months ago and I understand what you mean (he also had 3 DIY LLT 18's (IIRC) in that same set-up) - it really was a great experience. Once he really pumped up those subs, I honestly felt like I was in a boxing ring - they were thumping my chest that hard. But, it was so crisp and clean I was simply astounded.
> 
> That said, your system is nothing to be ashamed of - the Klipsch Reference series is a fantastic system itself and you own one of the best subs in the ID market. I would love to come down and check out your set-up sometime.....


Well thank you for the words of encouragement on my setup and we could certainly plan some demo time. I was probably a little harsh on my setup when graded on a cost scale. I was literally blown away to say the least.


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## chashint

wgmontgomery said:


> I owned* the Nautilus 802s; two of the best speakers I have ever heard.
> 
> *My ex has them now. It's _a bit_ sad considering the fact that when I met her, she thought that cassette tape with Dolby NR was the best sound attainable. :sob:


Oh man that really hurts....
When my ex became ex she took all the money and I got the rest; house, kid, and debt (lots and lots of debt) and that is when I found out why divorce costs so much... because it's worth it :clap::T


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## chashint

JBrax said:


> Well thank you for the words of encouragement on my setup and we could certainly plan some demo time. I was probably a little harsh on my setup when graded on a cost scale. I was literally blown away to say the least.


Hey there is always something better and nothing wrong with being excited when you hear it.
I still go and audition speakers sometimes.
I am happy with what I have and intend to keep it, but there are certainly better speakers out there.


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## JBrax

chashint said:


> Hey there is always something better and nothing wrong with being excited when you hear it.
> I still go and audition speakers sometimes.
> I am happy with what I have and intend to keep it, but there are certainly better speakers out there.


Yes, I'm also very pleased and plan on keeping my speakers also. That was the first time hearing something vastly better than mine. After thinking it through it's honestly outside of my budget. I guess it doesn't hurt to dream.


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## hjones4841

My antidote for "upgradeitis" is to not go hear anyone else's system


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## showcattleguy

hjones4841 said:


> My antidote for "upgradeitis" is to not go hear anyone else's system


Mine involves my wife saying I can't upgrade until she gets a pair of Rockport Arrakis for her 2ch... Like that will ever happen


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## popalock

I've read that the S8's can't even hit reference levels (105db)? <--- Key word there is "read."

I'd post my reference, but I don't think the moderators like when I cross-pollinate forums...

While "reference" has NOTHING to do with how awesome they sound, just makes me wonder if they have the head room when you really want to push them.

I have "0" experience with the mighty Signature series and I'm fully aware that specs alone will never tell the full story.


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## wgmontgomery

ALMFamily said:


> All I can say is :doh:


...and my reply would be:


1) as much as I love it, equipment is only "stuff"
2) :spend: as in I've replaced it AND upgraded some equipment
3) :sob: :sob:
4) life goes on! 
5) Thanks!


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## wgmontgomery

showcattleguy said:


> Mine involves my wife saying I can't upgrade until she gets a pair of Rockport Arrakis for her 2ch... Like that will ever happen


Same here, but in my case it's Lenox or Mikasa china/knickknacks or furniture (and, no; new speaker stands do NOT count as furniture!) :wave:


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## JBrax

I've never been shot down on any upgrade to date but I did get a serious look of concern this time. The breaking point was the vacation fund. My wife and I are avid scuba divers and I suggested we could make it work by not going for a couple years. Denied!


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## wgmontgomery

JBrax said:


> I've never been shot down on any upgrade to date but I did get a serious look of concern this time. The breaking point was the vacation fund. My wife and I are avid scuba divers and I suggested we could make it work by not going for a couple years. Denied!


I am a certified Rescue diver currently living <2 hours from the "Graveyard of the Atlantic!" 
This isn't the proper forum for scuba, but I wanted to say "hi" to a fellow diver. :wave:

_"Take only pictures; leave only bubbles."_ :TT


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## JBrax

wgmontgomery said:


> I am a certified Rescue diver currently living <2 hours from the "Graveyard of the Atlantic!"
> This isn't the proper forum for scuba, but I wanted to say "hi" to a fellow diver. :wave:
> 
> "Take only pictures; leave only bubbles." :TT


Hello and we absolutely love it. We did Cozumel last year and hoping for Bora Bora next year.


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## wgmontgomery

JBrax said:


> Hello and we absolutely love it. We did Cozumel last year and hoping for Bora Bora next year.


:TT


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## JimmyLeggs

chashint said:


> Hey there is always something better and nothing wrong with being excited when you hear it.
> I still go and audition speakers sometimes.
> I am happy with what I have and intend to keep it, but there are certainly better speakers out there.


That's truth...and stay off the boards so you can't see anyone else buying new toys


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## chashint

Or live vicariously through others.


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## Blake90

Klipsch, without any doubt.


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## JBrax

Blake90 said:


> Klipsch, without any doubt.


Without any doubt? While I love my Klipsch Reference Setup the Paradigm S8's were in a different league.


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## vann_d

I'd like to think you can get much closer to the sound quality of those S8's without going near that budget. I have some RF82's and, honestly, they don't come even close to the heritage series stuff I've heard. Maybe a "halfway there" approach could give you great results and you'd still be able to take a vacation now and then! :bigsmile:

Personally, I don't have that kind of cash either and I'm taking the assemble-it-yourself way to (hopefully) audio bliss with a trio of 4pi's for my LCR. My point is there are many ways to the end result.


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## Blake90

JBrax said:


> Without any doubt? While I love my Klipsch Reference Setup the Paradigm S8's were in a different league.


I have a ridiculous obsession with Klipsch. For some reason, they are the only sound signature that just hits me right.


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## Dwight Angus

I would like to demo the S8's just to experience them. They have a great reputation. When you heard your friends speakers did you notice any room treatments? Perhaps you can choose less expensive speakers apply some room treatments and achieve a similar audio response?


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## JerryLove

popalock said:


> I've read that the S8's can't even hit reference levels (105db)? <--- Key word there is "read."
> 
> I'd post my reference, but I don't think the moderators like when I cross-pollinate forums...


The S8 is 92db in room at 1w. That is 112db (sustained) @[email protected] The speaker can take 500w sustained (about 119db).

Reference is 80db sustained with 105db peaks.


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## JBrax

Dwight Angus said:


> I would like to demo the S8's just to experience them. They have a great reputation. When you heard your friends speakers did you notice any room treatments? Perhaps you can choose less expensive speakers apply some room treatments and achieve a similar audio response?


Yes his room was treated and I'm pretty much content for now. At least until I have a dedicated room and then I plan on really doing it right.


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## Dwight Angus

JBrax said:


> Yes his room was treated and I'm pretty much content for now. At least until I have a dedicated room and then I plan on really doing it right.


When do you foresee commencing construction of your dedicated HT? I built mine about 5 years ago. The Dimensions are 25ftl by 17ftw by 8f tall. My wife and I built all the acoustical treatments ourselves. Have thoroughly enjoyed it since then. I am looking to upgrade my speaker system and the S8's or the S6's have got my attention. I currently have a 7.2 speaker system consisting of SVS MTS-01s/MBS-01s/dual PB13 Ultras. Really enjoy them but I want to increase system quality. Will audition the S8's in 2013 among others.


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## JBrax

Targeting 2015 or so when we purchase some land and build a house. The S8's are truly amazing speakers and I can't imagine it getting much better than what I heard. You would be a lucky man to procure a pair.


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## Dwight Angus

Look forward to reading about your 2015 HT build and of course your S8 acquisition. Unfortunately
I have competing alternatives for my speaker funds in 2013. I need a new roof and planning backyard deck build. Inserting a speaker purchase into the mix will be challenging to say the least. I do plan however to at least audition both the S8's and the S6's this year. I have been reading some of the S8 reviews and they are very compelling and very consistent across all the reviews I have read. 
Upgraditis is alive and well


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## JBrax

Really doubt I'll actually ever acquire any S8's but we can all dream right?


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## Dwight Angus

My fear is I can plan for the S8's but what about the electronics I will need to get the most out of the S8's.
Everything I read says high priced amps/processors are a must. Then again is the improvement audible?
Something to consider I guess


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## JBrax

If you're going to shell out that kind of money for speakers you might as well do it right and give them good clean power. Nobody wants a 4 cylinder Ferrari.


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## JerryLove

Dwight Angus said:


> My fear is I can plan for the S8's but what about the electronics I will need to get the most out of the S8's.
> Everything I read says high priced amps/processors are a must. Then again is the improvement audible?
> Something to consider I guess


Then allow me to write saying that they are not a must. You can do just fine with Emotiva, Yamaha, ATI, or any sufficiently powerful amp (you *might* have issues with an AVR).


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## Dwight Angus

JerryLove said:


> Then allow me to write saying that they are not a must. You can do just fine with Emotiva, Yamaha, ATI, or any sufficiently powerful amp (you *might* have issues with an AVR).


Thnx Jerry. I have Emotiva XPA 5 & XPA 3 amps and Onkyo 5508 prepro. I believe this combination should be enough clean power to drive them. Are there better amps? For sure but given the law of diminishing returns I am trusting this should be hope enough.


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## Ash009

Dwight Angus said:


> Thnx Jerry. I have Emotiva XPA 5 & XPA 3 amps and Onkyo 5508 prepro. I believe this combination should be enough clean power to drive them. Are there better amps? For sure but given the law of diminishing returns I am trusting this should be hope enough.


I have klipsch RF82s front and RC62 center with polk RTI 28 surrounds and a PL200 sub with a Yamaha HTR6280. Do you think it would be a good idea to run my fronts and center off the emotiva XPA 3 or 5. What are the amps like also. Any complaints? Worth the money? Thanks

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## Dwight Angus

Ash009 said:


> I have klipsch RF82s front and RC62 center with polk RTI 28 surrounds and a PL200 sub with a Yamaha HTR6280. Do you think it would be a good idea to run my fronts and center off the emotiva XPA 3 or 5. What are the amps like also. Any complaints? Worth the money? Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


I have owned my XPA-3/5's for 2 years without any issues. I use the XPA-3 to power my mains and centre channel. I use the XPA-5 to drive surrounds and wide channels. Lots of clean power and suitable for my SVS MTS-01's. The RF82's are very efficient so power won't be an issue.


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## BrianAbington

As nice as the Paradigm's are you could probably build a custom high powered system with built in speakers with active crossovers for less than half of what a 5.1 S8 based system would cost and would blow his room away. 

I'm betting 4 15" woofers per channel will make for some pretty insane midbass impact.


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## Ash009

Dwight Angus said:


> I have owned my XPA-3/5's for 2 years without any issues. I use the XPA-3 to power my mains and centre channel. I use the XPA-5 to drive surrounds and wide channels. Lots of clean power and suitable for my SVS MTS-01's. The RF82's are very efficient so power won't be an issue.


The system sounds good, but the woofers are not moving very much at all even when I run them at 0db pure direct do you think I need some more power? Sounds good even with the sub off but I'm thinking more power than the 120w the amp says it has would sound nice and give more bass.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## tesseract

High efficiency speakers don't need to move very far, this also keeps distortion low. More power never hurt, though!


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## Ash009

Thanks for the advise and help


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## 8086

tesseract said:


> High efficiency speakers don't need to move very far, this also keeps distortion low. More power never hurt, though!


High efficiency speakers also tend to have less bass.


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## Ash009

The bass is ok from the RF82 just figured I might be able to get some more without the sub. I have a Bic PL200 so it sounds good with the sub anyways loud enough for me for now. Lol. 
The wife will have a bird if I buy anyone speakers this year lol


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## tesseract

8086 said:


> High efficiency speakers also tend to have less bass.


It's a trade off, indeed.




Ash009 said:


> The bass is ok from the RF82 just figured I might be able to get some more without the sub. I have a Bic PL200 so it sounds good with the sub anyways loud enough for me for now. Lol.
> The wife will have a bird if I buy anyone speakers this year lol


Try playing around with the placement of your RF82's. Even an inch or two can make a difference. Turn off any EQ, move one at time, listen for a while, move again as needed. It's not something that generally happens overnight. Good room integration takes time, even with measurement capabilities.

Find the happy spot and rerun room correction. You can use subs with EQ on, or mains sans EQ.


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## CHASLS2

My Paradigm Signature 2 v3's sound bettter than all of the RF line of Klipsch i have had.


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## Ash009

For the $360 tax and delivery included for the pair I paid for my RF 82 nothing can touch them! correct me if i am wrong, but you probably paid more for your surrounds.


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## Ash009

Ash009 said:


> For the $360 tax and delivery included for the pair I paid for my RF 82 nothing can touch them! correct me if i am wrong, but you probably paid more for your surrounds.


Wait you paid more for your fronts than I paid for my whole system. I spent $2000 on it all including my receiver, and it was all new. Lol.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## JBrax

Ash009 said:


> For the $360 tax and delivery included for the pair I paid for my RF 82 nothing can touch them! correct me if i am wrong, but you probably paid more for your surrounds.


That's a pretty good price considering the RF-82 ii's cost $600 per speaker.


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## Ash009

Yeah I was watching future shop for a while and they had a buy one get one free which put them at $500. Then after a had them a week they put them on clearance for $299.99 so I phoned and complained and they gave me back $230. Lol. I would have bought more but they were sold out


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## 8086

Klipsch's biggest problem is their woofers kind of lack the performance you find in competitors speakers, especially Paradigm and B&W whom can make a speaker with a good mid range.


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## JBrax

8086 said:


> Klipsch's biggest problem is their woofers kind of lack the performance you find in competitors speakers, especially Paradigm and B&W whom can make a speaker with a good mid range.


We all have our personal opinions when it comes to speakers and with Klipsch there seems to be no middle ground. People either love them or hate them. I'm of the opinion for HT use they are outstanding as well as easy to drive without outboard amplification to reference levels. Would I happily trade them out for Paradigm Signature series? Yes. Would I trade them out for B&W Diamond series? Well, yes again but we're talking a different league and price point.


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## Ash009

Wow your talking $6000 a pair to my deal of $360 a pair for RF82. I would trade too! no prob, and they better sound a whole lot better but who has $20000 or more to spend on a home theater? Lol.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## 8086

Ash009 said:


> Wow your talking $6000 a pair to my deal of $360 a pair for RF82. I would trade too! no prob, and they better sound a whole lot better but who has $20000 or more to spend on a home theater? Lol.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


Not at all. I don't know how the discussion jumped to super expensive speakers. Paradigm and B&W both make bookshelfs and towers that cost under a grand. Paradgim Mini-Monitors usually sell for $300-400. 

Klipsch also has a pair of $30 or 40k speakers which are in a class of their own.


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