# Home Theatre By-Pass



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Hi,

Just wondering what model HT bypass starts on the new onkyo receivers?

I am looking at the 807 up.

Thanks

Mark


----------



## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Hi Mark and welcome to the Shack :T

By HT Bypass do you mean a Direct mode, with use of just the preamp stage?

This  Onkyo 807  thread lists all the features of the 807 and it does have a pure direct mode...


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Welcome Mark. I too am not completely clear on HT Bypass. Put as John pointed out, Pure Direct, bypasses the digital processing, bass management, and even HDMI to give you an analogue pathway.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

recruit said:


> Hi Mark and welcome to the Shack :T
> 
> By HT Bypass do you mean a Direct mode, with use of just the preamp stage?


Possibly but HT bypass usually refers to a function in a stand-alone analog preamp where the front L/R channels from an AVR or processor are passed through, unmolested, to the main amps and speakers. 

Pure/direct is simply a way to avoid unwanted digital processing in the AVR or processor.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Possibly but HT bypass usually refers to a function in a stand-alone analog preamp where the front L/R channels from an AVR or processor are passed through, unmolested, to the main amps and speakers.
> 
> Pure/direct is simply a way to avoid unwanted digital processing in the AVR or processor.


Hello,
Kal, I know several High End 2 channel Preamps offer a pass through to facilitate incorporation into a HT system, but I am not familiar with AV Receivers offering this.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Kal, I know several High End 2 channel Preamps offer a pass through to facilitate incorporation into a HT system, but I am not familiar with AV Receivers offering this.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Yes, you are right JJ and that is why I am not sure what the OP meant by that, presumed a Direct Mode.

I have had stereo pre-amps with the bypass feature but not sure about AV receivers....


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Hi,

I am fairly new to this so I may be confused on what I actually mean. Perhaps it refers to a feature on the amp?

I will do some more research myself and come back.


Mark


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Kal, I know several High End 2 channel Preamps offer a pass through to facilitate incorporation into a HT system, but I am not familiar with AV Receivers offering this.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Yes. An HT Bypass, afaik, has always meant that it was bypassing the HT signals through an analog preamp at a fixed gain (ideally at unity gain). That is the meaning used for the last decade by many companies that make such preamps and you can look at their user's manuals (Sim, Parasound, Sony, Bel Canto, Audio Research, etc.) for this.

It seems that some HT users are thinking that using direct/pure can be a way to pipe output from their analog components with minimal corruption but that is (1) questionable, (2) dependent on the quality of the analog in/out stages and volume control of the AVR/prepro and (3) more of an analog passthrough than an HT passthrough.


----------



## recruit (May 9, 2009)

organm said:


> Hi,
> 
> I am fairly new to this so I may be confused on what I actually mean. Perhaps it refers to a feature on the amp?
> 
> ...


How are you getting on Mark?


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I am sure your talking about the Pure Direct mode. Most receivers above the $400 mark have this feature as many people use their room for multi purpose listening for both Music and movies. The 807 does have this mode.


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

_Hi,

I found this explanation on HT bypass. Seems the bypass feature is actually on the amp.


HT bypass allows TWO PRE-amps to connect to one power amp.

In this case, you have two things to drive yr power amps to yr L and R speakers.
- AVR front L/R pre out 
- hifi stereo pre out

So you hook the AVR pre out to the hifi stereo pre-amp's "HT bypass input".

When you switch to the HTbypass input, the stereo pre-amp's volume/tone controls etc etc are bypassed completely. The AVR's signal goes directly to the power amp.

I'm still a little confused but it is becoming clearer.

Mark_


----------



## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Yes, basically it means that the source input is passed directly through to the power amps, but you still need a preamp stage to control the source input, ie Volume and that has to be either the AVR or Stereo preamp and in my experience it is usually the Stereo Preamp that has the By-Pass feature.


----------



## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

organm said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just wondering what model HT bypass starts on the new onkyo receivers?
> 
> ...


Hi Mark,

What is it exactly you intend to do? Adding an external amp to an Onkyo receiver? Or adding a source with its own volume control?


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Bob,

I was considering adding an Emotiva amp to the Onkyo, primarily for two channel performance.


Mark


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
As another alternative, you could go higher up in Onkyo's lineup. The TX-SR807 does not have near the same amount of power and current as did its predecessor the TX-SR805 which shared the same amplifier section as the TX-SR875. The TX-SR876 and TX-NR906 along with the current TX-NR3007 and TX-NR5007 offer, for a receiver, a very powerful amplifier section. These receivers are capable of outputting over 100 WPC all channels driven and when configured to 2 channel, output around 185 watts into 8 ohms and around 320 watts into 4 ohms. Here is a link to the testing of the TX SR875: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2463/test-bench-onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver.html
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

For information purpose:

In past Onkyo products, the "Pure Audio" mode button was sort of a touted feature, which shut ALL audio and video "processing", turned the the front panel display off, and transformed the receiver into an all-analog preamp.

Now, while "Pure Audio" still turns off the front panel display and cuts the video processing, any and all digital audio processing is still very much alive. In other words, Pure Audio now encompasses the digital.
We are now in fully digital times. "Pure" means 'Pure Digital Audio'.
And this happens with all Onkyo receivers now for at least the last three years.

I know Denon is a little different in this aspect. And Yamaha also has its 'Pure Direct' digital audio mode.
So, is Onkyo and Yamaha more digital than analog now? And is Denon still engaged in a Pure Direct analog audio mode, even when using a subwoofer in 2-channel Pure Direct Audio mode?

With Digital HDMI now, I'm not sure anymore which one or who would like to have a Pure Direct total analog bypass mode. It sure ain't the way it used to be...

What is a Pure Direct Audio analog bypass mode? Mmm... quite interesting indeed in the times we're living; with Automatic Room Correction done in the digital domain, digital HDMI audio/video connections, digital DSP audio modes, digital parametric equalization, digital bass management, digital tone controls, digital video settings, digital crossovers, Digital to Analog Convertors, Analog to Digital convertors,...

The true Analog Aficionados don't even look at Receivers, they look at straight 2-channel stereo systems, with sources that have their own volume control, plug directly into a tube power amp.
Not even a preamp in the middle. , if they can also get away without a power amp, they would just plug their CD player or turntable directly straight into their speakers.

Just a simple tought...


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Thanks Jack,

This is certainly an option. I am cautious of this as my current Yamaha has always been a little dissapointing but I guess it is far inferior to the 3007 and 5007.

The other thing is that I keep hearing that dedicated amp's always out perform receivers? Maybe I am being too precious?

While we are on these Onkyo models, I am in Australia and we pay high prices compared to our USA colleagues. I can source a new (runout) Tx-NR906 for $2.8k AUD, normally $3.5-4k AUD.

Just wondering if I should get this or buy the 3007 $3.3k AUD or the 5007 $$3.7k AUD. Are the differences in the new model worth it?

Yes, we get ripped off.


Mark


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Thanks Bob,

Point noted.


Mark


----------



## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

organm said:


> Bob,
> 
> I was considering adding an Emotiva amp to the Onkyo, primarily for two channel performance.
> 
> ...


Hey Mark, I just knew there was something behind your original question.

Here's my best shot to you: I'm not sure which Onkyo model you are most interested in, but I know that you can get last year model, the TX-SR876 for only $800 USA (brand new). I'm not even sure you need an external amp with it. It all depends of your speakers and room's size. Could you please let me know?

Now, if you're thinking on the newer model, the TX-NR807 (by the way, the TX-NR1007 is a much better receiver, and a wiser buy); and adding the Emotiva XPA-2 to drive your two main front speakers, because you seem to be into listening in Stereo audio mode, then, you'll have all the power you need to drive them, even with the TX-NR807 mated with it, of course.

BUT, if movies have any importance at all for you, I'd recommend the XPA-3, so your three main front speakers have an equal doze from the same power amplifier. That will be more cohesive in the front soundfield with a more consistent & balanced sound. Than the 807 (or other model #), would drive your surround speakers, which demand much less power in general.

But Mark, as I alrady said, it's all about the demand of your speakers, your room's size, the master volume you like to use listening to music & movies, and your own use of features that will benefit you personally, in the here and now, and even perhaps in the future.

Cheers,
Bob


----------



## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Mark, if you have the dough, I suggest you get the TX-NR906 then. It is cheaper there for you, and it is the very best. Better than the 1007 and 3007. And slightly behind the 5007, mainly for the new Audyssey DSX (Wide or Height channels), which I'm not at all yet convinced of the true benefits, and certainly not in 2-channel Stereo listening mode.
And of course a 7.1-channel system (906) vs a 9.2 one, with all the internal 9 power amps included (5007).

Me think very honestly that the Onkyo TX-NR906 is one of the better, if not the best, value in A/V receivers ever offered to the general public. That, is the true HT Bypass that you first inquired about, the one that By-Pass all other Home Theater Receivers. :bigsmile:

Cheers mate,
Bob


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Bob,

Why primarily do you rate the 906 as better than the 1007 and 3007?


Mark


----------



## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

organm said:


> Bob,
> 
> Why primarily do you rate the 906 as better than the 1007 and 3007?
> 
> ...


Well, I read a lot about the new owners of these newer models, and they seem to have some issues with Onkyo right now. There is a "Click" issue (audio modes relay switching), but I now know how to resolve it, so it is moot for me; but for many people not aware of the solution, it is indeed a disappointing issue.

And the Network features are more or less a moving target. Onkyo seems to not aknowledge any issues in their receivers right now. That all business firmware updates is getting more an headache as days are going by.

Also, I noticed that the 1007, 3007 and 5007 have changed their output transistors for only one per channel, but much bigger one too, vs two per channel in the previous models, smaller ones though, but of good reputation. Now I'm not sure it makes a big difference, but I think it does save Onkyo some $. 

And the 1007 has only one transformer, an EI core. The 3007 has two additional transformers for the audio and video sections, but the main transformer is still an EI core.
The 906 has a main Toroidal transformer, plus the two additional ones. And all the connectors (rear & front) are gold plated, which in my book is a highly desirable feature, as they will not oxide.
Also the 906 has much sturdier speaker's binding posts, another desirable feature with true benefit.
The only receiver that can compete with the 906 is its replacement, the 5007. But it will cost you though.
Remember, performance & value ratio will determine the overall winner, for me anyway.
As of now, in the USA, the 906 is about $600 cheaper that the 5007, at their very best street prices. Make your choice...

And from what I also know, there is a slight difference in sound between the 905, 906 and 5007.
But to tell this differrence, you do need some high resolution speakers.
The 905 is sweet sounding in the highs in general. The 906 is more open in this area, more analytic sounding, and more reveling too, which many people prefer. The 5007 is perhaps more reminescent of the 905, but still with great intelligibility. You know Mark, after all, it's only a question of preference, but also value. And for me the 906 is a better value with great sound quality. The 5007 is the newer model with Audyssey DSX, PLIIz, Dolby Volume, nine power amplifiers, two subwoofer outputs, and also cost quite a bit more money. If these added features are important to you, and are worth the extra financial cost, then it's your own choice.

That's why my personal preference is for the Onkyo TX-NR906, considering the cost, the performance, and the features I am content with.

* Ask Sonnie about his TX-NR906, which he got for a very good price.

Thinking further about this; do you remember the 70's, when a receiver was a 2-channel stereo amp/preamp with a tuner in it?
Look now; nine power amps!  Network features for streaming the world into your living hell, oups!, I mean living room; pretty soon you won't have a life anymore with all these speakers taking over and the stock market taking over your home receiver, your display theater, and in your own home theater room!  I mean this is not an audio/video hobby anymore, it is a complex headache that require computer expertise and a lot of appointments to your doctor. And those prescriptions for the stress ain't free, right?

There is a philosophy that still works for me; keep it simple.
Things are getting way too complex now. I'll say time to take a serious break.
I don't really need more that what the 906 has to offer. Do you?
...Well, perhaps later on... :bigsmile:

Cheers,
Bob


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Bob,

All excellent points, with some real pearls of wisdom.

Thanks for that. I am driving past a retailer today that is running out a 876, not sure of the price. I will consider that as well but I agree the 906 is the best value for money.

Mark


----------



## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

organm said:


> Bob,
> 
> All excellent points, with some real pearls of wisdom.
> 
> ...


Hey Mark, I just re-edited my previous post. I added some more important details; perhaps you should have a double look.

And happy shopping. :T

Bob

P.S. By the way, you did not mentioned your speaker's model #'s, neither your room's size. 
Guess you don't need that external Emotiva amp after all.


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Bob,

Room is 6 metres by 9 metres (Reasonably Big and Open) But stereo is set up on one half of the room 6*4.5 metres.

The Polk's are RTiA9's front, CSiA6 centre and FXiA6 rears.

Thanks for your help on this.


Mark


----------



## organm (Dec 5, 2009)

Bob,

Who is Sonnie I would like to talk to him about his 906.


Mark


----------



## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Hi Mark,

Thanks for the info. This is quite a large room, and it don't matter that your system is set up on one half of the room (mine is set up similarly). You still need to fill that entire space, for the sound to engulf you effectively.

My take: A receiver like the Onkyo TX-SR876 or TX-NR906 or TX-NR1007/3007/5007, is a great candidate for that type of room. And if you intend to listen at reverence level (which is very loud), I would recommend adding or a second subwoofer (by the way you did not mention which sub(s) you are using), or the Emotiva XPA-3 (or XPA-2 for your two huge front main speakers; and your center speaker is a very decent size too).

* Sonnie is one of the main guy here at the Shack (he's the Owner, a Shack Hillbilly). Just PM him, his avatar is an ever-changing old pictures of Pink Floyd's band. He's a Pink Floyd addict, just like me. :T He'll tell you more about his 906, mated with two Emotiva XPA-1 mono power amps, than I.

He is on the first post of this interesting thread about Audyssey:
@ http://www.hometheatershack.com/for.../10807-audyssey-multeq-discussion-thread.html

-> Just click on the small PM logo in the bottom left part from his name, avatar and few added info.

Bob


----------

