# Center channel horizontal vs vertical



## xtinkshun (May 6, 2011)

Please don't take this post incorrectly... It's an observation I made while trying to help a friend. If you have a set of speakers both Left, Right, and Center which use identical speaker drivers is the crossover build the same regardless of how the center channel is positioned? ie. Horizontal or Vertical. 
I read the best center channels are the type that match the Left and Right so ALL speakers would be horizontal. I did some quick research online and started with the Statements and Statements Center since a lot of us are familiar with the design and you can see the crossover schematic. 
Statements Center http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/St...elNetworks.JPG
Statements http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/st...ssovernets.JPG


From what I can see the crossovers are identical. I am wondering if he can build the statements center horizontal, however, then purchase an additional Tang Band driver to build a Full Statement Vertical? The kits are identical except the center only includes a single Tang Band driver. 
This would allow him a chance to save $1000.00 on the full size statements and decide IF he like the sound. The center kit is $368.75


That way he could decide IF he wants to build the Full Size Statements and decide if he prefers a Vertical or Horizontal Center channel. 


Are ALL speakers like this if they use identical drivers for the fronts and center? IE, Finalists, Clearwave 4t, 4cc, Paradigms, Klipsch, B&W etc
The only difference is your moving the center vertical, does that change the sound pattern? A speaker doesn't know if its laying horizontal or vertical provided the speaker itself plays in a 360 motion. Granted if you place your ribbon sideways, im sure it would sound different due to the dispersion pattern.


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

If the crossover is identical that would work. HOWEVER, it's not as simple as just flipping one up or re-adjusting the drivers vertically. the crossover and orientation are all very specifically measured, meaning you'd have to arrange the drivers in a specific way or the crossover becomes fairly moot... if you shift the tweeter (for example) 2 inches up from where it was designed to be aligned then it's out of sync (so to speak) with the crossover. speakers (especially MTM's) are designed with a specific "cone" of dispersion, as they are not 360 degree motion as you described. so just re-orienting them wouldn't work. you'd have to literally copy the EXACT distances, shapes and install depths of the full statements to get them just right. if you do, then yes, it's easy enough, but if not, you risk making them not perform as expected

after looking at that crossover it looks like they are similar but NOT identical


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## xtinkshun (May 6, 2011)

Mike Edwards said:


> If the crossover is identical that would work. HOWEVER, it's not as simple as just flipping one up or re-adjusting the drivers vertically. the crossover and orientation are all very specifically measured, meaning you'd have to arrange the drivers in a specific way or the crossover becomes fairly moot... if you shift the tweeter (for example) 2 inches up from where it was designed to be aligned then it's out of sync (so to speak) with the crossover. speakers (especially MTM's) are designed with a specific "cone" of dispersion, as they are not 360 degree motion as you described. so just re-orienting them wouldn't work. you'd have to literally copy the EXACT distances, shapes and install depths of the full statements to get them just right. if you do, then yes, it's easy enough, but if not, you risk making them not perform as expected
> 
> after looking at that crossover it looks like they are similar but NOT identical


I stand corrected, while the picture looks the same, the VALUES are different. I never built a crossover so im just verifying if I was seeing it correctly. That's interesting info. concerning the location of the driver/speaker. I thought a woofer would direct sound the same regardless of where its placed, same with a midrange but thinking more analytically it does make sense that placement is important. The drivers may be identical but the values are different meaning the sound is "dispersed" differently (not sure what word to use). I wasn't seeing the difference at first glance.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

xtinkshun said:


> Please don't take this post incorrectly... It's an observation I made while trying to help a friend. If you have a set of speakers both Left, Right, and Center which use identical speaker drivers is the crossover build the same regardless of how the center channel is positioned? ie. Horizontal or Vertical.
> I read the best center channels are the type that match the Left and Right so ALL speakers would be horizontal.


No. It would be best if all the speakers were vertical.



> I did some quick research online and started with the Statements and Statements Center since a lot of us are familiar with the design and you can see the crossover schematic.
> Statements Center http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/St...elNetworks.JPG
> Statements http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/st...ssovernets.JPG


 Links fail.

.........................................................................................


> The only difference is your moving the center vertical, does that change the sound pattern? A speaker doesn't know if its laying horizontal or vertical provided the speaker itself plays in a 360 motion.


No speaker has uniform 360deg dispersion. Re-orienting a speaker (horizontal to vertical or vertical to horizontal) will change its polar radiation pattern. Crossover redesign cannot fully compensate for that. The only justification for a horizontal array is visual aesthetics and/or convenience.

In general, horizontal arrays are inferior to vertical ones. Have you ever seen a high quality main speaker, such as you would use for full range left or right, with a horizontal arrangement of drivers?


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## xtinkshun (May 6, 2011)

What I meant by 360 degree sound is that drivers cannot be placed upside down. Ie. If I am using a 15" woofer it doesn't matter how its installed into the baffle, same with the midrange and tweeter. There is no correct way to install it... Does it matter which side the positive and negative terminal are? Im sure a ribbon mounted side ways would sound "wrong" but with other drivers its a moot point. I am currently using 3 identical speakers and all are vertical standing. I was just curious as to horizontal speakers IF they used identical drivers that matched the vertical left and right speakers. I didn't realize when viewing the picture in my links closer that the actual "values" are different even though the layout is the same. 
Center speaker http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/StatementCenterChannelNetworks.JPG
L & R speaker http://www.speakerdesignworks.com/statementsCrossovernets.JPG
This link is working.
My current speakers are QSC SC-2150. Would it matter if the dual 15" woofer were standing vertical or laying on their sides? It would sound the same wouldn't it? I can detach the Waveguide and place it on top regardless of the woofer orientation.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

xtinkshun said:


> What I meant by 360 degree sound is that drivers cannot be placed upside down. Ie. If I am using a 15" woofer it doesn't matter how its installed into the baffle, same with the midrange and tweeter. There is no correct way to install it...


Orientation of circular drivers is generally not an issue.



> Does it matter which side the positive and negative terminal are?


Not if they are connected correctly.



> Im sure a ribbon mounted side ways would sound "wrong" but with other drivers its a moot point.


Yes.



> I am currently using 3 identical speakers and all are vertical standing. I was just curious as to horizontal speakers IF they used identical drivers that matched the vertical left and right speakers. ...........................................My current speakers are QSC SC-2150. Would it matter if the dual 15" woofer were standing vertical or laying on their sides? It would sound the same wouldn't it?


Probably not but it will depend on their crossover frequency/slope and their spacing.


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