# Why do I still see fast action blurring???



## merc (Oct 3, 2009)

Do I just need to have my eyes checked, or is that something we are going to just have to live with in our new HDTVs?

Over the weekend, I paid visits to BB and Frys and while there to look at Blu-Ray players, I took the time to check out the new HDTVs. Frys was using the Samsung looping demo which emphasizes fast action football to try and sell their TVs... and, ALL of the HDTVs which I would consider and be able to afford showed blurring and an occasional pixelization during that football action??? I saw blurring on all the HDTVs at BB too... including an LED set which the BB guy said was the equivalent of the old CRT based HDTVs at 240hz speed?


I don't understand it? Do most folks who haven't seen a CRT based HDTV just not know any better??? Are they just used to the pic of LCD sets? The best pic I saw was at Frys on the Mits DLP RP sets, but even on them, they were inferior to my ancient CRT RP HDTV?

When will HDTVs finally catch up/back to the non-pixelating, non-blurring image we used to be able to buy... or, is the digital technology of LCD,LED and DLP just well, digital and pixelization and blurring is what we've got to learn to love?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Its a bit of a sacrifice, Older CRT displays like I have are analog and because of this do not display the motion blur however the image on LCD Plasma displays are sharper in most cases with normal motion. So in answer to your question because everything is now digital that is one of the things we just have to get used to. If the processor inside the display is not fast enough or the display its self cant update fast enough you will get the blur. Remember also the displays in the store have a signal thats been split up to sometimes 10 or more so that does not help the image look better. In your house once you have it calibrated right you will probably have better results.


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## martinez331 (Oct 21, 2010)

Get a Plasma... I have zero motion blurr or pixelization on fast moving scenes. I tried 3 other LCD's and like you, kept seeing the motion blurr... finally made the switch. Football never looked better.:T


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

240hz displays cannot fix how the material was recorded, compressed, transmitted or played. Cameras operate at 30 or 60 hz. Fast motion with fine detail in the passing background gets lost and pixelated all the time in football and it has nothing to do with any particular display type nor with the refresh rate.


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## martinez331 (Oct 21, 2010)

lcaillo said:


> 240hz displays cannot fix how the material was recorded, compressed, transmitted or played. Cameras operate at 30 or 60 hz. Fast motion with fine detail in the passing background gets lost and pixelated all the time in football and it has nothing to do with any particular display type nor with the refresh rate.


Another thing to concider is that those "240hz" refresh rates... usually a 120hz fake fix which tries soo hard to keep it smooth you get the Soap Opera effect and the background looks fake and lacks the natural motion blur you get in real life. I think you either live with the pixelization during movement (which I found on even BR movies on a 120hz display) or get a plasma.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

The point is that much of what people see in terms of motion blur and pixellation will not be solved by plasma or any other specific technology because it is in the source material. It is true that much of the processing that is hyped to deal with such issues can actually make the picture look worse. We start with all such processing turned off when calibrating. You can add back what you find to work acceptably once you sort out what each "feature" does to the image.


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## merc (Oct 3, 2009)

lcaillo said:


> The point is that much of what people see in terms of motion blur and pixellation will not be solved by plasma or any other specific technology because it is in the source material. It is true that much of the processing that is hyped to deal with such issues can actually make the picture look worse. We start with all such processing turned off when calibrating. You can add back what you find to work acceptably once you sort out what each "feature" does to the image.


I see your point to a degree. Even on my only remaining Tube SDTV, in my office, I will occasionally see pixelization for regular TV which is apparently caused by the content being transmitted via satellite before being sent to me via Cable.

Still, I was intrigued about how the latest and greatest would look side by side next to my CRT based RPHDTV so I pulled out my CC and bought the most expensive, latest and supposedly greatest LED set for sale at BB. Set it up and followed your advice for disabling all digital bells and whistles, calibrated it as best I could using a calibration DVD, and then watched MNF via cable HDTV.

The result.... I am waiting for BB to send the return credit to my CC.

Three out of four of us voted for the CRT HDTV as looking more real and preferrable when watching the ESPN HD MNF broadcast.

Although this wasn't the purest, double blind type test, as the CRT was 14 inches larger, once I saw blurring on the new set, my mind was decided. The lone dissenting vote was by my 15 year old son who is an avowed Xbox360 gameplayer and loved how the colors and resolution popped on the new digital set versus the old set.
He said he really didn't see any blurring at all....?

And, that's not to say that the new set didn't have new-world benefits which I really liked, it surely did. But, since image quality is my primary concern with an HDTV, and broadcast HDTV is still not at 1080p, the cost for simply upgrading to new technology for me is not a very good cost-benefit decision... IMO. YMMV.


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## martinez331 (Oct 21, 2010)

If you like the CRT, get a Plasma. If I'm not mistaken its the closest thing as it creates an image in a similar fashion. Each pixel is self illuminating.


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## merc (Oct 3, 2009)

martinez331 said:


> If you like the CRT, get a Plasma. If I'm not mistaken its the closest thing as it creates an image in a similar fashion. Each pixel is self illuminating.


Sounds good... but, where can i find a decently priced 64" or better plasma... and if so, what is the latest data on how plasma's continually look worse throughout their use and that the first day you see it is the best?

Seems that our beloved industry which depends on us early adopters to give it life has just decided to abandon us and move to whatever is best for them and not the consumer...

Maybe China or some new third world country can come through for us and give us high performance, high adaptability, high consumer adoptability, and the best of everything the way it used to be... for alot less than cowtowing mainstream hollywood companies?

Otherwise, they are forcing us who are poor to try what we can to get what we originally paid for when we could afford the gear we bought...... Then again, maybe Obama can bail us out too???


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## martinez331 (Oct 21, 2010)

Lol, well there is no free lunch. I'm sure the image on Plasma's will be bright and beuatiful 50k hours after you purchased it (thats 5.7 years of having the TV on continously!) and besides by then you may be looking for an upgrade? haha Fryz Electronics, Costco, Amazon, Best Buy... I like Amazon personally or Costco. Thought big retail stores sometimes dont carry the higher end displays.


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## merc (Oct 3, 2009)

martinez331 said:


> Lol, well there is no free lunch. I'm sure the image on Plasma's will be bright and beuatiful 50k hours after you purchased it (thats 5.7 years of having the TV on continously!) and besides by then you may be looking for an upgrade? haha Fryz Electronics, Costco, Amazon, Best Buy... I like Amazon personally or Costco. Thought big retail stores sometimes dont carry the higher end displays.


Okay.. but where can I buy a 64 inch or bigger plasma and how much is it gonna cost me.. rather than sticking with an assumed slightly better image on a plasma...?

Sorry, but size is important to me when it comes to video images.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

As far as the source showing motion blur:
I've watched plenty of football games on LCD's (at friend's houses and out at bars) and then come home to watch the same game on my old CRT RPTV. The LCD's always look like crud compared to my CRT. 
Yes, if a source is recorded poorly, it will display poorly. But in my experience most modern events are recorded well, it is the LCD tv that stinks.
Also most of my friends think their LCD tv's look so much better than the old crt's.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

merc said:


> Okay.. but where can I buy a 64 inch or bigger plasma and how much is it gonna cost me..


This review is for a Samsung 58" but the 63" version has street price of $2997 (I'm not sure if this model has a bigger version or not):
http://www.hometheatermag.com/3d-flat-panels/samsung_pn58c7000_plasma_3d_hdtv/


63" prices:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0036WT43I/ref=dp_olp_new_map?ie=UTF8&condition=new


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## nholmes1 (Oct 7, 2010)

Runco makes a fantastic 65" Plasma that finally has better black levels than the Kuro units do and of course has Runco's fantastic video processing but it will cost you... about 10k and if you want the opal coating on the back of the screen to help with ambient light it will add about another 2500.


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