# 1st Projector advice



## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey all!

I have been reviewing the projector forum, reading reviews, and using the projector calculator to try to determine my options for projectors.

I have a room that is 14x21x7.5, fully able to control lighting, and plan to use it mostly for movies but will also do some sports and a Wii.

The screen size will be 92" diagonal. There are 2 rows of seating - at 8.5' and 14.5'. I am planning to do a projection room that will put the throw distance at @19'.

Putting all those parameters into the calculator, it looks like my best option is the Epson 8350 which gives me 16 Fl at a minimal zoom.

I am just wondering if anyone has any suggestions for other projectors that would work for my set-up. My budget would be for $2000 or less.

Thanks in advance!!


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

I can think of no other projector, off the top of my head, that would work better in your situation.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks a lot Mechman!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Sorry, Mechman, I should have asked a follow-up question right away as well - given all those parameters and a Epson 8350 projector, do you have any recommendations for a screen? 

Thanks!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hmm... I should also have added that I am looking at a fixed screen.....


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I am starting to waffle a bit on building that projector room at that distance - it seems like it will lock me in to a very small sampling of projectors that are capable of projecting to a 92" screen from that distance while maintaining an optimal Fl level.

Would I be better off ceiling mounting the projector closer or am I just overthinking this? onder:

Any thoughts / opinions? :help:


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## NegativeEntropy (Apr 22, 2009)

Will ceiling mount work for you with 7.5' ceilings? If your 2nd row is elevated, it might be an annoyance or a problem.

If it does work, I agree it gives you added flexibility in the future. In addition, on the long zoom projectors (like that Epson) you'll get more light at the wide angle end of the lens, sometimes significantly more (i.e. up to 45% light loss from max wide to max telephoto).

Placing the projector closer and higher will give you more room to play Wii without getting in the light beam too. Since you're looking at a 92" screen, you can place it quite close (on the order of 9' and a few inches if you wish). Please note it's often stated the a lens does not give its best image quality at either end of its range. This may or may not be visible.

I would expect the potential downside (as it will be closer) is more noticeable fan noise. On this Epson, that should not be a concern unless you are particularly sensitive to it. On the upside, it should get excellent ventilation if hung from a mount (vs. placed in a box).

Consider aesthetics as well - my significant other would likely prefer a rear shelf mount over ceiling mount for example.

Edit: I believe the Panny AE4000 just fits your budget too. It will look better in controlled lighting conditions than the 8350 (i.e. it has better blacks) and has lens memory if you're considering zooming for wide aspect ratio films. It also has frame interpolation which many like for sports. It's brightest mode is slightly dimmer than the 8350 but that should not be an issue on a 92" screen, especially if you mount it close to the screen. Those trade-offs may or may not be worth the extra $7-800 to you.

Since you mentioned gaming, make sure to check into the lag of each projector you consider. Depending on the game type, it can be a problem.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Ryan!!

You are correct - I have 7.5' ceilings. I was hoping there was a ceiling mount that allowed for a projector to not drop as far, or I could potentially start the mount inside the ceiling and build in a backer box.

Alternatively, since my second row of seats is at 14.5', I thought I could mount it right behind the 2nd row and not interfere too much with the seating or walkway behind the seats. That would at least move the projector to about 15' and give me a few more options.

Are there any other options I am missing?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

After spending some time last night reading reviews and playing with Projector Pro, I am considering upping my projector budget. :spend: :doh:

If I go to 15' for the projector and ceiling mount it, the Panny AE7000 looks like it would be a good fit and received glowing reviews. It has all the functions / features of the AE4000 as well as 3D capability. Are there any other projectors in that price range I should consider? 

As far as the low ceiling, it looks like Chief makes a ceiling mount that can be mounted flush with the ceiling. If it is mounted flush, are there any concerns from a cooling /noise standpoint I need to consider?

Thanks for any input!


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## NegativeEntropy (Apr 22, 2009)

> If I go to 15' for the projector and ceiling mount it, the Panny AE7000 looks like it would be a good fit and received glowing reviews. It has all the functions / features of the AE4000 as well as 3D capability. Are there any other projectors in that price range I should consider?


What features/performance area are most important to you?

My knee jerk reaction is to suggest waiting on reviews on the forthcoming replacement for the Epson 8700UB, the 5010. But, again, it depends on your preferences. Me, for example, I have very little interest in 3D and as such, while I like the added brightness of the AE7000 over its predecessor, I am finding the $1000 price jump hard to swallow.

There should be no problems in flush mounting it - just verify the vents are on the front/back/sides on whatever projector you decide on. The manual should indicate minimum required clearances. 

Noise (in terms of placement) should be mostly a function of distance and direction from the fan exhaust to the ears of the moviegoers (all else being equal). As such, a projector with front intake/exhaust should be quietest if it was in front of all seats, for example.

Since the Panny and Epson projectors have caught my eye the most, I'm largely ignorant of the DLP or LCOS options. I'm guessing they would mostly require mounting closer to the screen to net a 92" image as their zooms tend to be less than Epson/Panasonic's 2.0:1. I assume the room geometry is what's setting the 92" screen size?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks again for the reply Ryan!

After talking with the family more about what they want, the kids gave me a "wow, we could do 3D?!"  So,I do actually have an interest in doing 3D, but will probably be mostly 2D. Beyond that, it looks like most of the features of the 7000 are similar to the 4000 with a few exceptions like light output (as you mentioned already). I do also like the 7000's ability to do 16:9 and 2.4:1 content easily as well as a good sports-watching experience. 

Any idea on the time frame for the 5010?

And, yes, the room dimensions pointed me toward a 92" screen. After some discussion with Bryan about acoustics, I set the 1st row distance at 8.5' and it just seemed like going any bigger would be overwhelming from that close. Also, it gave me more room to move the front speakers away from the walls.


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## NegativeEntropy (Apr 22, 2009)

Last I read the release date for the 5010 was "in stores in November 2011." I am a bit concerned that it is November and I have not heard an update.

Please read reviews of current 3D performance. They are all very dim compared to 2D (as in 75% brightness loss). This seems to be as good as it it gets right now, but for some I would expect that to be a deal breaker. Your 92" screen size should help with that though.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

ALMFamily said:


> Sorry, Mechman, I should have asked a follow-up question right away as well - given all those parameters and a Epson 8350 projector, do you have any recommendations for a screen?
> 
> Thanks!


Sorry! I've been gone for the last five days so I wasn't able to see or answer your question.

For the best advice on screens, it's probably best to post your question in one of the screen forums. :T


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hope you had a great time away Mechman! 

I will do that - thanks much!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I am trying to determine if the Epson 5010 would work at a throw distance of @19' for a 92" screen while maintaining an optimal FL level.

After taking a look at the Epson 5010 specs, it looks like the zoom is similar to the 8350. I know from using the calculator that the 8350 would work well at that distance. Given the same zoom capability, would the 5010 also work for that throw distance? 

Thanks in advance for any input! :help:


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## NegativeEntropy (Apr 22, 2009)

It seems likely to work, but I'd wait until the manual is posted. A quick search only turned up a spec sheet http://www.projectorpeople.com/SLIS/pdfs/Epson/EPSHC5010.pdf. As of this writing, their image size calculator is a 404 link.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

So, projector central has now added the 5010 into the calculator! :clap:

The projector would work at that distance. However, I have a couple questions about the other results:

1. To work at 19', the zoom would need to be set to 1.0. Is this a good thing, bad thing, or it does not matter?

2. With a screen gain of 1.0, the image brightness would be 19 FL. I recall reading that 12-16 is the range you want to shoot for. What setting are these calculations normally done on? (i.e. normal, eco, etc) Can the brightness factor be adjusted by going to a different setting and, if so, does that abnormally affect the picture? If not, is that going to be too bright of a picture?

Thanks in advance for any feedback!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hey all!

Just wondering if anyone has anyone has any input on the questions in the previous post. Pretty close to settling on / purchasing a projector - just hoping someone can answer those questions for me.

Thanks for any help! 

Joe


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## NegativeEntropy (Apr 22, 2009)

Hey, I've been out of town, catching up now.

I think the calculator is being optimistic. For example, a 1.0 gain screen, 100" diagonal, 16:9 Aspect Ratio screen shows 40 foot-Lamberts at its closest position. My spreadsheet equates that to 1200 lumens - that happens to be half of the 2400 rated lumens for this model. 

A typical LCD "cinema" mode is 450-650 lumens. This model will certainly do 1200 lumens, but not in "best" mode (a.k.a. cinema). It will be one of the in between modes (a.k.a. living room mode) and yes, you give up picture quality (e.g. color accuracy) and black levels.

I think Projector Central uses the manufacturer's spec as their input until they review it and get actual measurements. After that, I'm not sure what they use, if they account for bulb dimming, etc.

For brightness calculations I use my own spreadsheets rather than rely on their calculator (or verify Projectorcentral's numbers at least). Their calculator is good for image size however (as a precursor for the manual for each model).

To address your question #1, that position at a 92" screen size requires the projector to be "all the way back". This means you'll lose a lot of light (varies by model, but on the order of 40-45% most likely for this model with its long zoom lens). Since you're maxed out it also limits zoom flexibility (play with the calculator). As long as those compromises are OK for you, then it's all good.

Let us know what you decide!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Thanks for the reply Ryan - hope you had a good time away! :T

I have been locked in on trying to keep the projector in the AV closet which is why I have considered the Epson models - they seem to be one of the few I can see that can do 92" from that distance (and have a decent price point). 

After running the numbers through Projector Central and your prior comments about being at the far end of the zoom range, I was pretty uneasy about going with the Epson.

So, two factors pretty much cinch this for me:

1. "To address your question #1, that position at a 92" screen size requires the projector to be "all the way back". This means you'll lose a lot of light (varies by model, but on the order of 40-45% most likely for this model with its long zoom lens). Since you're maxed out it also limits zoom flexibility" - not liking that much light loss.

2. Putting the projector back that far pretty much locks me into a projector with that zoom distance (Epsons pretty much). I don't want to have the limited flexibility.

So, in conclusion, I am pretty set on the Panny AE7000 - let the spending commence!!:spend::hsd:


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