# 3 way towers and center channel.



## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

I'll be building my first set of towers this weekend... not sure what the dimensions of the box will be, looking for insight there...

I'm on a serious college budget here so I'm looking at this combo...

on the 3 way towers...

I have (2) http://www.pyramidcaraudio.com/itempage.asp?model=TW12 that I picked up off ebay for $10 a while back and I figured they could do the job

Midrange - I trust the pioneer name? 
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=280-250

and woofer....
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-356
or
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=290-355

I decided to go with the Sony STR DG510 for my receiver as I would like the HDMI option for my PS3...can the receiver itself power the 3 ways, or should I buy a separate amp for that? sorry for the newb questions lol

Keep in mind I'm not super picky on how it sounds as long as its decent....I don't expect perfection from a budget build.

I know I should keep the woofer completely sealed off from the others inside the box but do I also have to separate the tweeter and mid?

Last question...would using a pre-fabbed crossover be a bad thing?
like this one....http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=260-210 because i'd really like to save the stress and use a pre made crossover...

THANKS!:T


ps - and for the center channel....I already know what I'm doing but I was reading it is a bad thing to put two tweeters in the center channel. Will I see negative results from using two 1" dome tweeters on opposite ends of the box?


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## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

and by "looking for insight" I mean I'm basically looking for someone to tell me what to do lol...

I'm looking to make them anywhere from around 2.5 ft to 3.5ft tall... I'm pretty much open to anything, and I have MDF ready.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Hmm.. I'm not too confident in the drivers given. They may be fine, but for the price they're selling for, I don't think the quality for a decent sound is going to be there. I could be TOTALLY wrong, but.. 

I'd feel a LOT better if you went with something like this. It's still WAY cheap, but I think it's going to sound a LOT better. I can't say for sure... well, yeah, I can. ESPECIALLY since you're going to be building this from scratch rather than from a kit.

And pre-made crossovers are really a last resort. They won't work like you think they will. Crossover design really needs to be geared towards the specific drivers. It's tricky with a two-way design, but with a three, it's wicked tricky.

So, to reiterate, if I were you on a wicked small budget, then I'd go with the linked kit, use some PVC pipe instead of the flared ports referenced in the link, but get the foam tape, the foam sheet and binding posts. The screws wouldn't be a bad idea either. Anyway, after it's all said and done, you're look at something for >$40/speaker


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## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

hey thanks for the input jacen....

as for foam tape, i was going to seal everything with caulking, then use dynamat to line the insides of both boxes...they will definitely be sealed solid.

I have foam sheet, well a mattress pad...that i bought for this intended use...that will still work right?

so if i bought the kit you listed, which seems like a plan to me.....

could i also add a separate extra 8" woofer in each tower? just add another crossover, which means i'd have two speaker terminals on the back of the towers but that doesn't bother me at all...


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## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

and as a ps- I can solder all the connections fine. but will just using my receiver will be enough to power these correct?

and if i were to add an 8" woofer to each cabinet, would the receiver be able to power them also?


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## digital desire (Dec 17, 2006)

Take the advice on the kit, if you want anything that approaches reasonable sound. 

If you just take a few drivers (you have not even mentioned an engineered crossover yet - the most important part) throw them in a box, it will sound like that. really not worth the effort. 

If you are going through the effort to make a cabinet, you really owe it to yourself to get the engineered solution. Crossover design is very important, and has to be matched to the drivers. Generic crossovers are not a very optimal solution.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Brian12345 said:


> hey thanks for the input jacen....
> 
> as for foam tape, i was going to seal everything with caulking, then use dynamat to line the insides of both boxes...they will definitely be sealed solid.
> 
> I have foam sheet, well a mattress pad...that i bought for this intended use...that will still work right?


You know, I don't know. I don't think so, but I don't know so. The absorbtion properties of a mattress pad probably as good as you'd think. I don't have anything to back that up, just a hunch.



> so if i bought the kit you listed, which seems like a plan to me.....
> 
> could i also add a separate extra 8" woofer in each tower? just add another crossover, which means i'd have two speaker terminals on the back of the towers but that doesn't bother me at all...



No, it doesn't work that way. Unfortunately, adding a woofer would throw the whole crossover out of whack -- you can't add a 'new' crossover to an exsiting one. Also, that 8" woofer probably wouldn't add the low end extension you'd really be looking for anyway. If I remember correctly, that kit is supposed to be able to go down as low as ~50hz. An 8" woofer isn't going to help much, and would probably hurt more than it helps.

JCD


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Brian12345 said:


> and as a ps- I can solder all the connections fine. but will just using my receiver will be enough to power these correct?


Yes, it'll do fine.


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## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

JCD said:


> No, it doesn't work that way. Unfortunately, adding a woofer would throw the whole crossover out of whack -- you can't add a 'new' crossover to an exsiting one. Also, that 8" woofer probably wouldn't add the low end extension you'd really be looking for anyway. If I remember correctly, that kit is supposed to be able to go down as low as ~50hz. An 8" woofer isn't going to help much, and would probably hurt more than it helps.
> 
> JCD


I didn't mean adding on to the crossover that comes with the kit, i'm sorry if it came across that way....I meant having two totally separate crossovers. The woofers would be completely sealed off themselves inside the box running on a complete separate crossover than the one that comes with the kit. The back of the box would actually have two 'posts' or 'speaker terminals' 

Would it make a difference if i were to buy two 8" "subwoofers" instead of "woofers" to put in the towers?

In all honesty, I just like the aesthetic appearance of the tweeter, mid, and woofer....lol sounds retarded i know.

You've been a big help, and I'm going to start cutting tomorrow....

do you have any suggestions for box design, size, etc(keeping in mind i'd like to have them relatively tall above 2.5 feet at least, and I can seal off the inside for whatever dimensions you suggest, but I'd like them a decent height for appearance reasons if that is understandable lol...)?
(I'll be buying the kit you suggested)
I'm sort of just winging it with building the box as of right now(no known size, etc)....I know that sounds terrible but my background is in car stereo installs which have basically been pre-calibrated I guess you'd say...so I was more or less just used to the installing aspect. This HT stuff is a complete new ballgame for me.


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## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

digital desire said:


> Take the advice on the kit, if you want anything that approaches reasonable sound.
> 
> If you just take a few drivers (you have not even mentioned an engineered crossover yet - the most important part) throw them in a box, it will sound like that. really not worth the effort.
> 
> If you are going through the effort to make a cabinet, you really owe it to yourself to get the engineered solution. Crossover design is very important, and has to be matched to the drivers. Generic crossovers are not a very optimal solution.


thanks for the advice, i'm just going with the kit j mentioned and possibly adding an 8" sub to each cabinet if that doesn't make me sound like a complete idiot lol. I would be running a completely different crossover for them.


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

JCD's bookshelfs he linked to seem to be a nice bargain. If you find the bass isn't enough for you, you could build a subwoofer when your funds increase.

Another option would be to look for some used Cerwin Vega tower speakers with a 10 or 12" woofer...It'll take a little bit of looking, but you'll probably be able to find some cheap in your area.


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## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

Brian,
The RB kit is a great place to start; I bought one as a present for my son. However, I don't see much advantage to making them 3-ways. They claim good response to 50Hz (ported) or 80 Hz (sealed). Your receiver will likely have an LFE/sub line level output, as well as an adjustable internal crossover in the 40-200Hz range between the LFE line output and the driven speakers. 

The 8" subs would be better built as independent boxes with small, dedicated plate amps that can be positioned where they sound best - not likely to be the same place the upper range speakers sound best. You won't need additional XOs as your amp already does that, for both sub and speakers. Granted, a plate amp for the sub is an added expense, but 100w is only $110, and you only need 1 sub driver to start. 

Have fun,
Frank


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## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

looneybomber said:


> JCD's bookshelfs he linked to seem to be a nice bargain. If you find the bass isn't enough for you, you could build a subwoofer when your funds increase.
> 
> Another option would be to look for some used Cerwin Vega tower speakers with a 10 or 12" woofer...It'll take a little bit of looking, but you'll probably be able to find some cheap in your area.


Hey thanks for the input from over there in ks, I've got family in Lenexa lol...

I already have a 10" subwoofer I am using with a Dayton 240w plate amp  I just personally like the look of 3 way towers better is all.... I won't see any negatives from using the kit listed above in a tower taller than 2.5ft will I?




fbov said:


> Brian,
> The RB kit is a great place to start; I bought one as a present for my son. However, I don't see much advantage to making them 3-ways. They claim good response to 50Hz (ported) or 80 Hz (sealed). Your receiver will likely have an LFE/sub line level output, as well as an adjustable internal crossover in the 40-200Hz range between the LFE line output and the driven speakers.
> 
> The 8" subs would be better built as independent boxes with small, dedicated plate amps that can be positioned where they sound best - not likely to be the same place the upper range speakers sound best. You won't need additional XOs as your amp already does that, for both sub and speakers. Granted, a plate amp for the sub is an added expense, but 100w is only $110, and you only need 1 sub driver to start.
> ...


Hey thanks for the input frank, I came home this weekend....and in my snooping around I found a pair of my dads old speakers HAHA "EPI 100"s that he said he bought when he was a junior in college...(1977 lol) I took each 8" woofer and tweeter out, they were dry rotting and looked terrible. I was curious...the front is inset enough to put a piece of 1/2" or even 3/4" mdf to "re-seal" the cabinets back up. So if I were to do that, and install the kit listed above, do you think that would sound okay?

If nobody knows what the EPI 100's are, they are easily found on google. I can link you if needed...

This way I could save myself a build and have cabinets that already look great...my dad has definitely taken good care of them over the years, and some of the reviews on the internet say that people have been enjoying them for 30+ years! :R


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## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

The EPI's are a 9" baffle width, while the RB's plan calls for a 7" width, and that's usually a big deal in XO design. Same with tweeter offset, present in the ported plans, but in-line with the woofer in the sealed plans. Hard to say how they'd sound, but you've little to lose by trying it out. 

FWIW, I'm replacing a set of Advents from the same era, also purchased in college, but mine have re-coned woofers and still sound great... up to a point. I'm still trying to quantify difference from the new NatP towers. 

Have fun,
Frank

PS Since you already have a sub, why would you go 3-way?


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## Brian12345 (Jan 28, 2009)

fbov said:


> The EPI's are a 9" baffle width, while the RB's plan calls for a 7" width, and that's usually a big deal in XO design. Same with tweeter offset, present in the ported plans, but in-line with the woofer in the sealed plans. Hard to say how they'd sound, but you've little to lose by trying it out.
> 
> FWIW, I'm replacing a set of Advents from the same era, also purchased in college, but mine have re-coned woofers and still sound great... up to a point. I'm still trying to quantify difference from the new NatP towers.
> 
> ...


I already said, I like the looks of a 3-way tower 

I wouldn't use the same crossovers from the epi's...i'd be using the crossover that comes with the kit listed...

with re-sealing the box I could make the woofer and tweeter in-line with each other unlike the epi's. I could also sort of 'seal' up a chamber inside the epi's box to the dimensions listed on the site for the kit...I don't see why that idea wouldn't work?


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## looneybomber (Sep 20, 2006)

Brian12345 said:


> Hey thanks for the input from over there in ks, I've got family in Lenexa lol...


Oh really, that's not too far away from me. I was even thinking of selling off one of my pairs of Cerwin Vega LS-12's...Although my roomate want's one of my pairs.:hush:



fbov said:


> Since you already have a sub, why would you go 3-way?


I have some 3-way towers with 12" woofer, yet I still use a sub, crossed over at 50hz. It helps relieve some of the stress on my receiver.


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