# Multi-zone Receiver Question



## proton1000 (Dec 29, 2012)

I'll be needing a receiver with 2 zones for my surround sound installation. There is a 2nd amplifier needed due to the number of rooms I need speakers in. I was informed that I need a receiver that has powered zone 2 output as well as a non-powered zone 2 output to feed the secondary amplifier.

What would be a good receiver for this purpose?

Thanks,
Proton1000


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## kenbola (Jan 24, 2012)

Yamaha 673


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

First off - welcome to HTS!

If I am understanding what you are after correctly, the Onkyo 809 would also work for you. It would give you a 5.2 surround system with a passive zone and a powered zone.

This unit is being sold on Amazon right now for $446.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Denon 2113 and up
Yamaha 675 and up
Onkyo 809 and up
Pioneer 1121? And up
Marantz 5007 and up

All these will offer you what you are asking for. 

IMO the Marantz sounds best and the Onkyo will give you the best bang for your buck. Denon has a nice feature set if you plan to integrate something like sonos.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

If you are using multiple rooms on zone 2 you will need an external amp capable of driving the load appropriately. Internal zone 2 amps are not typically designed for more than one pair.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

lcaillo said:


> If you are using multiple rooms on zone 2 you will need an external amp capable of driving the load appropriately. Internal zone 2 amps are not typically designed for more than one pair.


You could add a SPEAKER SELECTOR if you want to run both or your Zone 2's off of the ZONE 2 amplified output of your receiver... or if your zone 2 rooms have impedance matching volume controls - such as Niles or Proficient - you can still drive both of those rooms with ZONE 2 powered output... I have setup both of these scenarios and either works just as well ..... if you do want a louder ZONE 2 use your external amp to power them instead of your MAIN receiver zone2 amp... Denon and Pioneer both make excellent Amps with Zone 2 capability...


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## proton1000 (Dec 29, 2012)

Thank you for the info


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## proton1000 (Dec 29, 2012)

Yes, the zone 2 rooms will have volume controls. The external amp will be used for the zone 2 rooms instead of the powered zone 2 amp in the main receiver.

Thanks guys for the information.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Any thoughts on the receiver yet ?


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

RTS100x5 said:


> You could add a SPEAKER SELECTOR if you want to run both or your Zone 2's off of the ZONE 2 amplified output of your receiver... or if your zone 2 rooms have impedance matching volume controls - such as Niles or Proficient - you can still drive both of those rooms with ZONE 2 powered output... I have setup both of these scenarios and either works just as well ..... if you do want a louder ZONE 2 use your external amp to power them instead of your MAIN receiver zone2 amp... Denon and Pioneer both make excellent Amps with Zone 2 capability...


I would avoid doing this! While a speaker selector can be used you will significantly damage your sound quality. Remember there is no perfect/closed system and adding selectors will hurt efficiency and increase heat byproduct. An amp is needed is you are going to go beyond what the internal amp section is designed to handle.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

rab-byte said:


> I would avoid doing this! While a speaker selector can be used you will significantly damage your sound quality. Remember there is no perfect/closed system and adding selectors will hurt efficiency and increase heat byproduct. An amp is needed is you are going to go beyond what the internal amp section is designed to handle.


I dont know how many of these systems you have installed but I am an AV Installer Professional - for the past 10 years... Ive used many a Niles speaker selector unit and can tell you there is no "significant" distortion or degradation in audio quality...So unless your comments are based on years of installation experience in multi room audio, wheres are the facts to support your position ?... Do you really think these products would stay on the market if they "significantly damaged" the audio experience of there customers...:rolleyesno:


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

RTS100x5 said:


> I dont know how many of these systems you have installed but I am an AV Installer Professional - for the past 10 years... Ive used many a Niles speaker selector unit and can tell you there is no "significant" distortion or degradation in audio quality...So unless your comments are based on years of installation experience in multi room audio, wheres are the facts to support your position ?... Do you really think these products would stay on the market if they "significantly damaged" the audio experience of there customers...:rolleyesno:


I've been in CE since 1999. Started out Voice/Video tech support then AV retail, now AV install, ISF Calibration, and I work on large structured projects. I do automation, distributed audio/video, and a lot of retrofitting historic buildings and poorly planned existing systems. I don't just run the wire I design the systems. 

What a speaker selector does is level your nominal impedance at the expense of voltage. This is not a good idea in any system. More then half my work is playing pick-up with clients who have been burned by other custom installers. 

I'm not about to say that a speaker selector won't work. I'll say it's not the right solution for the problem. The speaker sector was developed to let someone, an A/V retailer for instance, quickly switch between speakers. That's why it's called a sector/switch not a splitter. It's a whole lot cheaper then a distribution amplifier so a lot of people choose to use them. 

If you want proof of how badly they can damage your sound quality get 3x 8ohm resisters, a stereo receiver, one pair of bookshelf speakers, and a speaker selector. Now take the resistors and wire them up to you speaker selector on ports 1-3R then connect one speaker to the selector on port 4R. Connect another speaker directly to your stereo's "B" now toggle between your a/b channels and tell me if you hear a difference. Next play through the selector at say 65db for the next hour and tell me your amp isn't extremely hot or hasn't shut off.

I didn't mean to insult your craft, but I'm afraid that a speaker selector is a poor recommendation without full disclosure of its effects. And I was of course talking about the internal zone2 amp on an AVR but the same is true of lesser external amps as well when used with a speaker selector.


:::edit:::
Any product will stay on the market if people buy it nothing more nothing less (I refer you to "audiophile esoteric tweaks" for many examples)


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

As with most issues, the truth is somewhere in the middle of both perspectives here. 

It is unfair to say that speaker selectors with impedance protection damage the sound quality in all cases. One must consider the expectations of the system. Secondary zones in most systems are not intended for more than casual background listening, and in these cases, it would be unlikely that the listening experience would be very different than at similar levels with a dedicated amp. 

That said, if one wants more than moderate levels and/or has many rooms to drive, it is important to understand how these devices work. They DO limit the current drawn from the amp by inserting a resistor in line. This results in a voltage drop across the resistor and power dissipated as heat in that resistor. This resulting voltage drop, current limiting, and the distribution of current among all of the connected speakers DOES limit the available power to the speakers.

I too have installed many systems with speaker selectors with impedance protection and they can be perfectly reasonable solutions. In general, however, with many speakers, best performance will be achieved with a dedicated amplifier that can deliver greater power, even if the speaker selector is used.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Always the voice of reason. Can I get you to agree that you will also create additional heat byproduct with the use of selectors.


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## proton1000 (Dec 29, 2012)

No, I haven't really decided on which receiver to get yet. What I've been seeing, is a lot of 7 channel receivers on the market. My main family room is set up for a 5 channel system. The holes are already cut in the ceiling. The Onkyo 809 is only coming up as a 7 channel receiver whenever I do a search. (TX NR-809). I guess it wouldn't be feasible to purchase a 7 channel receiver, if you're only going to drive 5 speakers??

What would you recommend for a decent 5 channel receiver, with the powered and passive zone 2 outputs? I'm not very experienced with receivers, outside of the popular names, such as Pioneer, Yamaha, and Onkyo. I only heard of Denon, once I began seaching the web.

I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them. I'd like to get the best bang for the buck, but I guess that's what most people want. You guys have a wealth of knowledge amongst yourselves, and your opinions and suggestions are well taken.

Thanks


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

proton1000 said:


> No, I haven't really decided on which receiver to get yet. What I've been seeing, is a lot of 7 channel receivers on the market. My main family room is set up for a 5 channel system. The holes are already cut in the ceiling. The Onkyo 809 is only coming up as a 7 channel receiver whenever I do a search. (TX NR-809). I guess it wouldn't be feasible to purchase a 7 channel receiver, if you're only going to drive 5 speakers??
> 
> What would you recommend for a decent 5 channel receiver, with the powered and passive zone 2 outputs? I'm not very experienced with receivers, outside of the popular names, such as Pioneer, Yamaha, and Onkyo. I only heard of Denon, once I began seaching the web.
> 
> ...


There aren't many 5.1 AVRs with zone2 pre-out. Pioneer 9 and 10 series comes to mind. Have you looking into sonos as a solution for zone2/3?

There are some very good reasons to look into getting a 7.1 AVR even if you're only going to use 5.1 the big reason for this is a term "all channels driven" the wattage rating on many AVRs is much higher then what the amp section can produce while working all the speakers at once. Using a 7.1 in a 5.1 configuration can give you a little better headroom. 

BTW what speakers do you have?


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## proton1000 (Dec 29, 2012)

OK Rab, a 7 channel it is. That makes perfect sense. The Onkyo TX-NR818 looks good. The sonos looks very attractive as another option. A possible zone 3. I'm currently pre-wired for the main family room with the 5.1 surround config. My zone 2 consists of 2 speakers in the master bed/bath area, 1 speaker in guest bedroom, 1 speaker in office, and 1 speaker on patio. 

I will need speakers (6½"). I don't know what brand speaker I will use. That was going to be my next post. I could use some help choosing speakers. This is a new home construction project. The drywall is up. I'll be needing to put some speakers in those holes pretty soon.

Thanks for the feedback.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

You will need to do some leg work for speakers. Go to local stores early when they open do you will be one of the only people there. (better service) and spend some time listening to the speakers. Pick what you like. 

I work with MHT so the speakers I'll recommend are sold through them. 

Great:
Bowers and wilkins
SpeakerCraft 
Martin Logan

Good:
Definitive Technology
Klipsch
Polk Audio

The thing about speakers is that what one person likes another will find flaws in. You really need to give a listen to the speakers.

:::edit:::
The nice thing about sonos is you can add more zones later as you want. Up to 32 zones.


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