# Receiver as an amp?



## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

Hello,
I have a rather stupid question, I have an old Onkyo 702 that I would like to use as a stereo amp, can I use the mains L&R preouts from an Onkyo 709 to the mains L&R pre inputs of the 702 to just power the mains? How do I use the 702 like this without signal processing, would this just act like a pass through from the 709 or will the 702 do any DSP? I would really appreciate any advice here if this is feasible. The 702 has a really beefy power supply and amp section, draws 8.1 amps of current. If this is rediculous, please feel free to tell me. I'll just get an outboard amp for future speaker upgrade if so! The 702 is such a nice receiver and working flawlessly, I look forward to all replies even if as rediculous as my query. Thanks guys.
Jeff


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

You are good to go Jeff. Just as you described, no problems. You can choose whether or not to apply processing from the 702.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

phreak said:


> You are good to go Jeff. Just as you described, no problems. You can choose whether or not to apply processing from the 702.


Thanks Phreak, could you elaborate on choosing to apply processing or not? That is my concern since I would like the 709 to handle DSP. The more I think about this the more confused I'm becoming, I'll be dealing with two volume controls and I need some specific instructions, I just want the 702 to amplify the signal from preout of 709 and that's it. It seems there is more involved in just connecting the 709 L&R preouts to the 702 L&R inputs. I think I'm better off just buying a stereo amp for starters and eventually use the 709 as a pre-pro.

Cheers Jeff


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

If all you want to do is use the 702 as a 2 ch amp to take some load off the 709, and you are just using it to power the L/R ch of your 7.1/5.1, hook it up as you said. Set the 702 to stereo mode and no dsp should be applied. Set volume to maybe half. Run Audyssey on the 709 and check where the levels are for all channels. If left/right are very different from center you can adjust 702 volume and re-run Audyssey. When you find the volume that works, program it as the auto-on volume on the 702. You never need to touch the 702 again.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Actually with only 2 speakers connected to the 702 you should be able to use stereo, direct, or pure.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

Why do you want to do this? Can't you just use the Onkyo 702 in Stereo mode only? 

If you are looking to BI-AMP, doen't your 702 have 5.1 Analog in? If it does, just use an emotiva input-output splitter (click link). Run one line in to left front/surround and the other to right front surround. Set the receiver to pure audio or direct mode which disables any steering or DSP logic. 

I wouldn't recommend using something it was never designed to do. There's the unknown risk of equipment failure or even a fire. There is no replacement for a genuine amp. 

I'm not necessarily pushing emotiva but they also make a good quality low cost amp.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

8086 said:


> Why do you want to do this? Can't you just use the Onkyo 702 in Stereo mode only?
> 
> If you are looking to BI-AMP, doen't your 702 have 5.1 Analog in? If it does, just use an emotiva input-output splitter (click link). Run one line in to left front/surround and the other to right front surround. Set the receiver to pure audio or direct mode which disables any steering or DSP logic.
> 
> ...


I'm not looking to Bi-amp, it was just a stupid idea that I finally realized, I've owned EMO amps and was very happy with them. I've dismissed the idea and have made a decision to setup a bedroom system with the 702. Thanks for the input.
Jeff


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

I wouldn't call the idea stupid, I think it is completely doable and well within the capabilities that the equipment was designed for. The only drawback is actually under utilizing the 702's capabilities. Your decision to use it to anchor a 2nd system is a much more effective usage.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

I think this is going to be the safest solution, I have both options available to me with my Onkyo:

Most Multi-channel Onkyos have a zone 2 capability and I'm certain the 709 is one of them. Why not just run zone 2 RCA with fixed volume (709) to the CD or AUX input on the 702? Or you could in the case of my Integra DTR-7.6, run the stereo monitor out from the DTR-7.6 (709 in your case) to the TX-NR702.

This solution avoids the complexities of sending a pre-out signal to a pre-input on the 702 and the risk of running the volume at 2x it's intended level. As a bonus, one Onkyo remote could simultaneously control the volume on both units with this setup.


Edit:
My mistake. I just checked. The DTR-7.6 has video out only, no audio. But I have seen audio monitor out on other receivers. Zone2 will stlll work to a regular input. 
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/integra-dtr-76-receiver-6-2006-part-1.html


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## PTAaron (Feb 16, 2012)

I see you've already decided against the idea - but I had considered something similar with my old HK 635 as an amp and my HK 3600 as the preamp. The solution I found for the volume control issue was to use an RF remote with the AVRs or different connections to the RF extender so one would simply turn on the 635 which was going to have a fixed volume level and be in 7 channel mode while the 3600 would be on a different channel. 
I ended up dropping the idea, but I keep thinking I may try it I the future.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

PTAaron said:


> I see you've already decided against the idea - but I had considered something similar with my old HK 635 as an amp and my HK 3600 as the preamp. The solution I found for the volume control issue was to use an RF remote with the AVRs or different connections to the RF extender so one would simply turn on the 635 which was going to have a fixed volume level and be in 7 channel mode while the 3600 would be on a different channel.
> I ended up dropping the idea, but I keep thinking I may try it I the future.



Just use the stereo output or zone2 RCA (fixed) out in place of the pre-outs. This prevents over volume and any other volume related issues.


http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/images/integra-dtr-76-receiver-rear-panel-large.jpg


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## boarderc577 (Feb 2, 2010)

8086 said:


> I think this is going to be the safest solution, I have both options available to me with my Onkyo:
> 
> Most Multi-channel Onkyos have a zone 2 capability and I'm certain the 709 is one of them. Why not just run zone 2 RCA with fixed volume (709) to the CD or AUX input on the 702? Or you could in the case of my Integra DTR-7.6, run the stereo monitor out from the DTR-7.6 (709 in your case) to the TX-NR702.
> 
> ...


I was thinking about doing this idea in order to control my ouside speakers using just an old optimus. Useing zone two outs on the 709 too the Cd in. havent tried it yet but Im hoping it works.


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## PTAaron (Feb 16, 2012)

8086 said:


> Just use the stereo output or zone2 RCA (fixed) out in place of the pre-outs. This prevents over volume and any other volume related issues.
> 
> http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_2/images/integra-dtr-76-receiver-rear-panel-large.jpg


That's an option, but why make it difficult when I can just use the pre-outs into the multichannel inputs?
For me since I already use RF control it would be pretty simple to do it the way I described.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

PTAaron said:


> That's an option, but why make it difficult when I can just use the pre-outs into the multichannel inputs?
> For me since I already use RF control it would be pretty simple to do it the way I described.



For one you are using the 702 in a way that it was never intended. You are also amplifying an amplified signal. But it's your system, do as you wish and do it at your own risk. I'm only suggesting a safer, purer method of doing this. If you were to ask an electrical engineer, he'd probably agree with me. 

I have two Integras, I could set things up this way. One remote will raise both volume levels at the same exact rate and turn the volume on and off. Also on both my Integras, there is an option to designate different remotes so you can operate two units in the same room. The same should be true for your Onkyo.


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## PTAaron (Feb 16, 2012)

8086 said:


> For one you are using the 702 in a way that it was never intended. You are also amplifying an amplified signal. But it's your system, do as you wish and do it at your own risk. I'm only suggesting a safer, purer method of doing this. If you were to ask an electrical engineer, he'd probably agree with me.
> 
> I have two Integras, I could set things up this way. One remote will raise both volume levels at the same exact rate and turn the volume on and off. Also on both my Integras, there is an option to designate different remotes so you can operate two units in the same room. The same should be true for your Onkyo.


I think you may have me confused with the OP, I wasn't talking about using a 702 - I was just giving input on my idea of using my HK 3600 and 635 in a similar way. 

I'm not sure I see how it would be different though - on my HK the zone 2 is an RCA output that is controlled just like the pre-outs but with the zone 2 remote. It still is going to the second AVR which will have to have its volume level set to a certain level. 

Is the zone 2 signal different from the signal coming from the pre-amp outputs in some way? (serious question)


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

PTAaron said:


> I think you may have me confused with the OP, I wasn't talking about using a 702 - I was just giving input on my idea of using my HK 3600 and 635 in a similar way.
> 
> I'm not sure I see how it would be different though - on my HK the zone 2 is an RCA output that is controlled just like the pre-outs but with the zone 2 remote. It still is going to the second AVR which will have to have its volume level set to a certain level.
> 
> Is the zone 2 signal different from the signal coming from the pre-amp outputs in some way? (serious question)


I know it can vary slightly from receiver to receiver but most offer a fixed level output. In the case of my Integra, I have the option of fixed or variable out through the unbalanced RCA jacks. Receivers were never designed to be daisy chained. a pre-out is a variable out. It will have more gain than a fixed out. Since your receiver is basically a pre-amp and amp in one package, a fixed input signal is going to be best for it.


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## PTAaron (Feb 16, 2012)

8086 said:


> I know it can vary slightly from receiver to receiver but most offer a fixed level output. In the case of my Integra, I have the option of fixed or variable out through the unbalanced RCA jacks. Receivers were never designed to be daisy chained. a pre-out is a variable out. It will have more gain than a fixed out. Since your receiver is basically a pre-amp and amp in one package, a fixed input signal is going to be best for it.


I see what you're saying now. 
I must have missed the fixed output part previously, my mistake.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

PTAaron said:


> I see what you're saying now.
> I must have missed the fixed output part previously, my mistake.



Another option:
You could also use the tape out or record out which connects to a tape deck so you can record what ever is being heard through the speakers. This would serve the same purpose as a zone2 and nearly all of older receivers from the 1970s to the 1990s have this feature; so you aren't limited to newer stuff.

Using the record out, keeps the volume level on the tape constant regardless of the volume heard by the speakers. If you used the pre-out to a tape deck (to record), your recording would be distorted or the volume would be messed up.


IF you don't like the idea of using zone2 which could allow you to listen to the radio or music as you game, etc. You do have an audio out on the VCR/DVR input, but it (the 702) will only work with that one source input.
http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/onkyo_tx_nr709.jpg
http://avreceivers.productwiki.com/onkyo-tx-nr709/


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