# Why don't AVR Manufacturers make this?



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Since 90% of the AV Market is now flat panels... Why doesn't anyone make a compact AVR that could be mounted on the wall behind the TV? I know a lot of people have moved to flat panels and have complained that they are not saving any space due to the large AV equipment.

What do you think? Is there a market for a compact AVR that can be hidden away?


----------



## GCG (Aug 22, 2013)

Not if you want power. It's the weight. Heavy doesn't mean power, necessarily. But I've never seen a powerful amp where the two didn't walk hand-in-hand. Can't have a good power supply without a big meaty HEAVY transformer IMO. Media server is a different story.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

GCG said:


> Not if you want power. It's the weight. Heavy doesn't mean power, necessarily. But I've never seen a powerful amp where the two didn't walk hand-in-hand. Can't have a good power supply without a big meaty HEAVY transformer IMO. Media server is a different story.


T chip amps are up to 100wpch and weigh under a pound I believe... Even so why not make a AV Preamp with external amps? There are a ton of buyers that buy bottom of the line AVRs that have less than 100 wpch. If manufacturers were to make a compact AVR about 3-4" thick that could be hung on the wall i think they would have a winner. Or how about a brick that housed the amp and a wall mount preamp?


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I don't know if people would plop down $1k+ for an industrial design AVR or not plus I am not sure how compact it could be and still do everything a standard AVR does.
Pro audio gear is very purpose built and if you stacked a processor/preamp and 5+ channels of amplification on a table you still have a pretty good stack sitting there.


----------



## GCG (Aug 22, 2013)

One thing a move like this would do is push the various companies to pay more attention to OSD design. I think this is one of the wide open areas of untapped potential. If the ARV/Pre were mounted behind the panel out view then the OSD would become the "Face" of the product and - Kattie bar the Door" - the design opportunities would mushroom quickly in cosmetics, function, and even feature. The mind boggles.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

chashint said:


> I don't know if people would plop down $1k+ for an industrial design AVR or not plus I am not sure how compact it could be and still do everything a standard AVR does.
> Pro audio gear is very purpose built and if you stacked a processor/preamp and 5+ channels of amplification on a table you still have a pretty good stack sitting there.


If they could get it down to about 3" high by 12" wide by 12" long I would be all over it. Look at the Intel NUCs... 10 years ago when they showed the concept at Comdex they were two to 3 times the size they are now, and back then everyone had towers. I now have 3 of them since they are so small and quiet (plus relatively inexpensive). What I would envision is a AVR like I described above with an umbilical cord (if even needed to get the size this small) to a power brick... This would keep the size down and make it easier to hide IMO. I currently use some small amps that are the size of a pack of cigarettes. I think it would be possible to make a AVR (Just look at how close the Marantz Slim Line AVR is to the desired size), and I don't think it would cost much if any more.:T


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

GCG said:


> One thing a move like this would do is push the various companies to pay more attention to OSD design. I think this is one of the wide open areas of untapped potential. If the ARV/Pre were mounted behind the panel out view then the OSD would become the "Face" of the product and - Kattie bar the Door" - the design opportunities would mushroom quickly in cosmetics, function, and even feature. The mind boggles.


Exactly, and they could integrate the IR control right into a jack on the back of the TV. No fancy case for the AVR would be needed as it would be hidden from view. No need for all the additional APPs as they can be on your TV, XBOX, etc. :T


----------



## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Non issue for me. Everything is in a closet, out of the way. OSD's are the same no matter where the AVR is. And with whole home systems...it's all in the wiring. Which will be the next thing to become obsolete...go Wi-Fi!


----------



## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

I kind of like the idea of a small head unit and an umbilical to the amps. That would work for many of us I think as space does become an issue at some point. How would all of the myriad of wires cleanly mount to the back of the head unit ?


----------



## GCG (Aug 22, 2013)

Savjac said:


> I kind of like the idea of a small head unit and an umbilical to the amps. That would work for many of us I think as space does become an issue at some point. How would all of the myriad of wires cleanly mount to the back of the head unit ?


I could see a single composite cable from a pre to an amp, perhaps still in the digital domain with a decoder in the amp. Nothing elaborate - a generic standard that would allow something akin to an HDMI cable but for audio. I'd like to go a step further and move to a modular power supply. That way we could utilize as much of the capacity of our amplifier stages as we chose and could afford.


----------



## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

I think most people that would want such a small AVR also want compact speakers, and are satisfied buying a powered soundbar.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I still see a small size being very underpowered. You can't produce 100watts across 7 channels in a slim design. Even the Marantz low profile receivers have poor output compared to their full size counterparts. Even the class D amps need space.


----------



## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I'd just like to see a standard, I hate the half size Blu-ray players that you can't stack anything on. My personal opinion is the chassis footprint of all AV gear should be the same size.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> I still see a small size being very underpowered. You can't produce 100watts across 7 channels in a slim design. Even the Marantz low profile receivers have poor output compared to their full size counterparts. Even the class D amps need space.


That is where the umbilical cord could come in...you could have the power amp remotely mounted away. A slim AVR would be nice for all the non hard core audio/videophiles which don't need or want big pieces of audio equipment. The other advantage is the wife acceptance factor. In my HT my wife could care less what equipment I have, as it is my room, but in the family room she doesn't want to see *any* equipment except the TV.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Then your really talking about a slim pre-pro where the amps are external?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Then your really talking about a slim pre-pro where the amps are external?


Yes for the people that need a bigger amp, but for those that could get by with say 50wpch, I don't see why it couldn't be an all in one unit.

Just think if all your piece were the size of an XBox... you could hang 4 pieces (or maybe even more depending on your display size) behind your flat panel, and maybe not even need a rack. :T


----------



## GCG (Aug 22, 2013)

If manufacturers started to placing pre-outs for all channels on their lower powered offerings there's the chance that sales on their up scale stuff would suffer as a result. Could be a bad business move.


----------



## informel (Jun 21, 2011)

ellisr63 said:


> T chip amps are up to 100wpch and weigh under a pound I believe... Even so why not make a AV Preamp with external amps? There are a ton of buyers that buy bottom of the line AVRs that have less than 100 wpch. If manufacturers were to make a compact AVR about 3-4" thick that could be hung on the wall i think they would have a winner. Or how about a brick that housed the amp and a wall mount preamp?


100wpch for one pound, the power supply for this should weight more than this.

having a smaller box with an external power supply does not solve anything.

Having a larger (ventilation) but thinner box can be a solution, but it would be expensive if the volume (quantity) is low


----------

