# Challenging space for home theatre



## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

Hello All,

I an a newbie who is looking for your guidance. I have about 5-7 months before I can start this project. I will be buying my in-laws house and I would like to turn this formal living room into a home theatre. It posses a few challenges. Can this be done?

1. The sloped roof - I was thinking about just hanging some drop DIY sound panels but leave the space above it alone???
2. The 3 giant openings - I guess build it out an maybe put a door in each opening???

3. The walls are already finished so I don't really want to rip apart but maybe repaint and put some wood work and columns up???

4. what distance to put projector to shoot image 9 feet wide with 16:9 format 

5. Distance to put row 1 love seat, row 2 on riser 4 theatre seats (like actual theatre seats) row 3 bar counter and stools.

6. budget - 10 K (for everything) with me doing all the work
*2,500 projector
*3,000 sound
*500 wiring
*500 DIY screen
*2,500 seating (loves seat, 4 theatre seats, bar counter and 4 stools) 
*1000 for paint, wood, etc for walls, riser etc.

*The room dimensions are as follows:*
13' wide x 20' deep with a side sloped ceiling from 16' to 10' 6"
would like 9 feet wide DIY screen.

Here is the equipment I am looking at:

*Projector:*
Panasonic PT-AE8000U - $3,000 
Panasonic PT-AE4000U - $2,250 
Epson PowerLite 8100 - $1,100

*Sound:*
2 RF-82II Towers 1 RC-62 II Center 2 RS-52II Surrounds(Black Only) BIC acoustic PL-200 x 2 Each(Black Only) Onkyo TX-NR828 7.2-Ch Network A/V Receiver ($2,999 on amazon)


*Screen:*
I would like to DIY a 9 foot wide screen with 16:9 format. $500

*Seating:*
one love seat - $300
4 theatre seats - maybe free or $1,600
Bar counter/seating - $600

Any and all guidance would be appreciated.

Joe


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

I forgot to ask since the walls are finished on 3 sides would it maybe be easier to cover the walls is rolling fabric like the movie theaters. This may also give me an opportunity to run wires behind it rather then through the wall.

Any comments?

Joe


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

Joe,

Looks like a great room for a theater / entertaining room!

Here are some opinions to ignore if they don't make sense in your case:

Maybe add a link to your build in your signature. It will drive more traffic / comments from other threads you comment on.

What is the goal of the room? Movies, music, TV, sports, etc? Or what percentage of each? 

The goal will help drive other decisions.

16:9 is a good format for the largest viewing of TV, gaming, sports, etc. But some die hards like the wide format for movies. I don't mind the black space on top and bottom when watching the wider format on a 16:9.

3 rows of seats/bar might be challenging for such a screen and space. Use the room calculators to help out. First go with 3 rows and determine how large a screen you can have with the front row. Then calculate the other way by the screen size you want and how far back seats should be. Somewhere in the middle is probably your answer. 

Check out these:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator.cfm
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html#anchor_13194

Why close it off? Are you looking for perfect sound? You probably wont get it without much more demo/construction... Are you insulating other rooms in the house from the sound? If you add the boom booms, the doors wont keep it in the room. The doors will add some level of sound control but might hinder your open floor plan. There are plenty of open floor plan designs that still have amazing sound. 

Get some color on those white walls STAT!

Start with a grid paper drawing of assumed measurements and furniture placement. You will get more input this way. Or use a modeling software.

The high ceilings and slope will probably also help preventing light splash on the ceilings.

Do you have attic access for wires? Are you good at drywall repair for wiring needs? Maybe wiring behind the baseboards is another option. Is there a large area rug for wires to run under? Are you adding new carpet that you can run wires under? Curtains or nice Fabric is definitely not cheap but can be cool on walls. Visit a fabric store to price it out during planning.

Columns might look out of place in this room. Unless you close it off. It doesn't seem to match the house style.

How much Wife Acceptance Factor do you need? 

This room would make a great entertaining style space similar to







the curtains would be a great way to close off the room light wise while allowing for an open floor plan.

My biggest advice would be to enjoy the room during the whole process. You already have the room shell so you wont have much construction per say. Once you settle on the projector, screen and sound. Buy those items first. Start with the sound. It is very nice to have music to listen to while you think, envision, relax, and build. Just run it off a phone or ipod. Setting up the sound in the room temporarily will tell you much more about how far you will take the construction such as doors or other items for sound/accustics. Then set up the projector and screen. You can watch and enjoy movies or TV while you debate wall colors.

Enough rambling and uninvited opinions. Enjoy!


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I can see the Wife Acceptance Factor being a problem. I don't see a wall other then where the painting is to put up a screen, and then there is a FP where the seating would be....is there a basement...


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

Nice input. I am not sure what to do with the space.

The answer to your questions:
I like the 16:9 format
Viewing - 50% movies, 30% tv shows, 10% sports, 10% games

I am looking for good quality surround sound and if I can achieve that without closing room off then I am game. I am not worried about sound leeking out of room but I also don't want to blow everyone out in the rest of the house either. I am also game for closing it off as well to help minimize sound spill out. My wife really wants a movie room so I know she is game as long as it looks nice.

I was looking to leave current carpet. The screen would go on front wall over window

The wife will be okay with anything as long as I can keep it to 10k.

I don't have an attic.

I like the idea of graphing it out.

No basement

I will begin with your suggestions of laying it out.


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

Has anyone used the google sketch to help design their home theatre room? Its a free download but I am always skeptical of downloading anything off the internet. If not I will do it the old fashion way of mapping it out on graph paper.

I do need to put my ideas down on paper to better see what I am looking to do. This seems to be step one.

Joe


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

Joe,

Many users here use Google Sketch and love it. Just do a search on these forums and you will see many examples.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Looking at the screen, one good thing is that the window seems to be in a niche. Does the current window treatment (shuttlers and that half moon shutter) block the light completely? If not I would probably look at a heavy black out curtain that would fill the niche. In your case a pull down or motorizes screen mounted over the niche would be ok, you can even build a nice box around it so that it doesn't look too out of place.

hanging the projector is another thing, if you put it on a shelf above the opening in the rear of the room you will have a 20' throw. Using the projector central calc the Epson 5030 would need the least amout of gain to the screen for a room with ambient light. Even then that screen would be at the 1.5 gain mark. And the projector would not be in its optimum mode as it would have to be pushing out its maximum output. The chandelier may also be in the way of the image.

Those I think are you biggest hurdles.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

joed said:


> Has anyone used the google sketch to help design their home theatre room? Its a free download but I am always skeptical of downloading anything off the internet. If not I will do it the old fashion way of mapping it out on graph paper.
> 
> I do need to put my ideas down on paper to better see what I am looking to do. This seems to be step one.
> 
> Joe


Call me crazy but that's what I did, graph paper and pencil. :scratchhead:


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

joed said:


> Hello All,
> 
> I an a newbie who is looking for your guidance. I have about 5-7 months before I can start this project. I will be buying my in-laws house and I would like to turn this formal living room into a home theatre. It posses a few challenges. Can this be done?
> 
> ...



Visual Apex, a sponser of HTS, has some great package deals that include: 
•Panasonic PT-AE8000U
•106in. fixed frame VApex screen
•35ft High Speed HDMI Cable w/ Ethernet (v1.4)
•Dust Cover
•Universal Projector Mount
•IR Repeater
•Universal Remote
•Disney WoW Calibration Disc

Heres a link for $2829

http://www.visualapex.com/projector-package-deals/home-theater-projector-package.asp?for-the=PT-AE8000U&Screen=FF_120

Another for a 106 inch fixed screen $2792.
•Panasonic PT-AE8000U
•120in. fixed frame VApex screen
•35ft High Speed HDMI Cable w/ Ethernet (v1.4)
•Dust Cover
•Universal Projector Mount
•IR Repeater
•Universal Remote
•Disney WoW Calibration Disc


http://www.visualapex.com/projector-package-deals/home-theater-projector-package.asp?for-the=PT-AE8000U&Screen=FF_106


9 foot wide screen would be about a 120 inch screen. Something to take into consideration is what is comfortable viewing for you and your family. Also remember you will need space on either side for your speakers and under the screen for the center.

In my HTS the first row of seats is about 10 feet from a 100 inch screen. The room is about 15 feet long. I did not have room for two rows of recliners and instead put a bar height table with 3 chairs behind the row of recliners. If 20 feet is the length of your room, depending where you place the first row of seats you should be able to fit two rows of recliners, or a couch and row of recliners.


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

The window does let some light in so I would most likely have to cover it with black drape. I was thinking of building a permanent screen and front stage. Now that I have a couple of options right now I don't know what I want to do.

20 feet is a big throw. I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating the ceiling fan and dropping the projector down right there. That's right at 11 feet from screen. But then if I do that it might look weird if I don't enclose the room.

so many option to think about.

Joe


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

Joe,

Let me save you the heartache. This is how it will go. You buy the house and have all these great plans for the theater. Next thing you know your wife moves in the new house and says your current furniture doesn't match the new house and WHAM! There went your budget.


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## phillihp23 (Mar 14, 2012)

bamabum said:


> Joe,
> 
> Let me save you the heartache. This is how it will go. You buy the house and have all these great plans for the theater. Next thing you know your wife moves in the new house and says your current furniture doesn't match the new house and WHAM! There went your budget.


:rofl::help:


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

That's pretty funny and true. We have went round and round over the last 10 years with furniture changes 3different times and I lost all 3 times. Women and their furniture, it changes as fast as their moods.

One saving factor in this case is that we can not move into my in-laws house until they finish building their new house which will take 5-7 months. They have agreed to let me start on this theatre room as they don't use it except for Christmas morning, that's it. 

If I spend the money first she can't. Score one for the guys.

So my construction time line has moved up.

I am going to download the google sketch tonight and work on the room layout both with an open floor plan and one with it closed off. If she buys into it I will be golden. 

Joe


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Subscribed!

Great suggestions above - Bama broke down a lot really well. The Klipsch system is a great system for movie / music mix IMO...

One thing that may help with screen size and the number of rows - when you go to a movie, where do you prefer to sit?


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

We sit pretty much halfway up. right in the middle. I have created floor plan that I will upload tomorrow. 

In the layout I have first row seating at 10 feet, second at 13' 9" and third row bar seats at 17'6".


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

joed said:


> We sit pretty much halfway up. right in the middle. I have created floor plan that I will upload tomorrow.
> 
> In the layout I have first row seating at 10 feet, second at 13' 9" and third row bar seats at 17'6".


With that being the case, I think 10 feet from the screen would be fine. My first row is 9' away from a 100" screen and I like the immersive effect that gives.

With that distance between the rows, the 2nd row of seats probably won't have the room to be recliners...


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

joed said:


> The window does let some light in so I would most likely have to cover it with black drape. I was thinking of building a permanent screen and front stage. Now that I have a couple of options right now I don't know what I want to do.
> 
> 20 feet is a big throw. I wouldn't be opposed to eliminating the ceiling fan and dropping the projector down right there. That's right at 11 feet from screen. But then if I do that it might look weird if I don't enclose the room.
> 
> ...


You don't have to go as dark as black curtains, I suggest you let your wife choose the color then you can just line it to make it blackout.

The key to building anything with a women. example flooring:

Step one: do all the reasearch and pic 3-4 choices that you like, this is key, you like them all.
Step two: Present and have her make the final decision.

Win Win - You got something you atleast like and she got the final decision, she thinks she has won, not knowing that you didn't care which one she picked because you like them all.

Ok back to the HT.

Seating and sound in this case is Easy compared to the logistics of placing the projector. I don't think you want to sit it on a stand in the middle of the room. Hanging it down from a mounting pole from the roof will look ugly. The only option I see is a shelf above the opening in the back room. The problem with that is that its a 20 foot throw, in a room that will not be complete dark at all viewing times. You will really have to put alot of thought into how will want your projector set. You will not be able to use Cinema mode as it will not put out enough light, and your screen will have to be a high gain or a specialty screen (expensive) such as the IS Black diamond.


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

It is great to hear that your viewing distance is close to mine.

Here is my room layout. This is the best I can do with on the floor planning web site.
 

I am really wanting to close my room in now and make it more a theatre feel. With that being said I don't think there is any way to get around hanging the projector from the ceiling. According to the calculators bam sent to me it looks like the projector can hang down from over the second row (where current ceiling fan is) to over the bar stools. The closer I can hang it down around the bar area the more out of sight it will be from the hall.

 

I did take your advise and found 3 set ups and showed them to my wife and or course I liked all three but she really liked this one.
 

Being a tight squeeze my second row will be movie theatre seating so they will not recline.


*To get this project started I guess I need assistance in these areas.*

Where do I start? Stage, drywall, platform etc.

Do I buy all the equipment first?

I would like to keep all my equipment under my screen in a stage cabinet (since I have a cut out behind the screen it will provide extra air to keep cool as well as not having to run a lot of cables across the room.)

Since my ceiling is sloped do I need to make and hang some sound panels (4 - 4'x8')like a drop ceiling at around 10' 6"? The nice thing would be that I can still feel like I have a high ceiling while cutting down on the noise bounce back. 


Phillip23 - those are pretty good prices on the projector packages. I may have to look into that. 

I haven't even started this project and it is consuming me. HTS is addictive and for the last week all I can seem to do is surf this site at work and when I get home up until I go to bed. 

I look forward to your feedback.


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

I forgot to add the 3d version.
 

here is another angle as well on the walkways I will need to close.


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

The renderings look very good and help to plan. The front wall looks to protrude on the right from pics. I don't see this in the renderings.

I think you will need to drop down the projector from the ceiling based upon throw rates of the projectors you are considering, but maybe you can find a way to celebrate/decorate it that makes it a feature point. Not as cheesy as wrapping it in a disco ball but there could be a way to partially enclose it and use led lights to make it cool. Maybe you paint the ceiling a flat black and paint the drop down pole and projector case a similar color to make it visually disappear. Or maybe you wont close in the room and use the money to buy a projector that can be on the back wall.

If you are going to close in the room be prepared to expand the budget a bit. You will need a double stacked wall for the height and if you are not skilled at drywall, you will spend some there as well. 2-3 doors will add 1-300 each plus installation unless you are handy.

With steps and a tile floor before the entry you will need to plan to make the door transitions feel natural. post picks or thoughts for feedback.

Be careful to ensure you have the right budget for what you want to do. The best way is to buy/install the equipment first. And then when you are watching a movie look at the wall/opening and say "wish I had a door there, hey honey can I have $400." and then she will say, "I love you so much but there is a great purse I like." and then you will un-pause the movie and move on.


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

I like your suggestion. I think getting the equipment and setting it up first before closing it off is a good idea. you never know maybe it will suit our family and I wont need to close off the walls.

Is this your recommendation:
1. purchase equipment
2 construct front stage, screen, platform, paint walls
3. hook up equipment 
4. furnish
5. enjoy
6. evaluate and make changes to room if needed


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

1. purchase equipment
2. hook up equipment
3. enjoy
4. determine next steps such as construct front stage, screen, platform, paint walls
4b. Cover or temp remove equip to do construction
5. evaluate and make changes to room if needed


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I can't recommend hanging the projector from the ceiling I think it would stand out to much. If a high gain screen and mounting the projector in the back doesn't appeal to you, perhaps you can mount it in an ottoman type enclosure (a short rack or wooden cabinet flanked buy ottomans) and use the projector's vertical lens shift and keystone. This will allow you to use the projectors cinema setting since it will be much closer to the screen.

I would suggest buying the projector and using look at multiple mounting locations to see what is best for you. Once you figure that out you can calculate the screen gain you need to acheive a bright picture in the light levels you wish to use.


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

soon I will be looking to order my equipment but in the mean time I have a lot of question.

1. if people put their sound equipment in the back of the room how does that work when dealing with gaming consoles and controllers?

2. how would you wire my HT room since the drywalls and walls are done but not painted in right color.

3. would I be better off putting my equipment up front under screen?


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

joed said:


> soon I will be looking to order my equipment but in the mean time I have a lot of question.
> 
> 1. if people put their sound equipment in the back of the room how does that work when dealing with gaming consoles and controllers?
> 
> ...


1) The controllers I assume are wireless. The problem lies in motion sensors such as the wii and xbox connect. Many will run an extra hdmi to behind the front stage from the equipment rack in the back in your design. that way you can have the motion sensor in the front of the room. There are extension options but as technology changes the extra hdmi or two is very nice up front.

2) 
a) take off trim/baseboard and run behind them and reinstall
b) run under carpet (bad, bad, bad)
c) run along the edges of the room and hide behind shoe mold
d) buy plastic square covers the make the wire more presentable running on the wall
e) run through the ceiling, and back down the walls. It is not that bad normally even with existing drywall. People do it all the time to flat mount a tv. The hard part in your scenario is the double high wall. There will be blocking / wall on wall supports inside there. You can still do it but you will be drywall patching where you cut a hole on top of blocking. Then you fish through the blocking as normal.
f) cut the drywall horizontally where you need to and patch later.
g) many other hacks

I think the solution will be a cross between all these. Start with the desired setup and address each speaker the best way for ease and professional look. The fronts if behind a stage are very easy from behind the stage via ceiling. The short wall is easy. The tall wall is the challenge if you place a speaker there.

Are you ultimately looking at a 5,7,9 or 11 speaker setup? I expect the left side (tall wall) will be the biggest challenge. Solve each speaker on this forum with lots of pictures to get suggestions. Finished work is not easy but worth the effort.

3) This is a personal style choice. Many have all their equipment on display up front. You will need to hide all the blue leds on the equipment, but a very small piece of black electrical tape works wonders. Not much is saved by placing on the front wall if you are looking for a very clean look. Both will require speaker wire and labor for the opposite room wall speakers. Another thing to consider since the room is built is power consumption. Will you need additional power outlets and breaker runs? What level of cabinetry do you want to hide the equipment while having good access on the front wall or is the equipment a showcase?

Overall you are asking how do I do it easy. I suggest instead you ask "how do I want it to look and how do I want to interact with it" from a showcase/usage point off view. Start with style and preference and then back off for cost, ability, reality, etc.


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

I understand and it does scare me. It looks like a lot of people work on theirs for 7,9 + months but for some reason I think HT rooms are never done. I am going to have to get my friend/electrician in there to address power needs. 

I don't know how much power the sound system needs(2 RF-82II Towers, 1 RC-62 II Center 2, BIC acoustic PL-200 x 2 Each, Onkyo TX-NR828 7.2-Ch Network A/V Receiver, Blu-ray, cable box but I will find out.

I will go with the 5.1/6.1(extra sub)

I will have another small game room for the kids maybe I will just keep the video games in there.

I have 2 sets of out lets on front wall (behind screen), 2 sets on finished side wall and power coming from the ceiling fan.

I went over to the in-laws house tonight to check the room out and noticed that there is only one can light in that room. That's not going to work. I did talk with the wife about budget and she rally wants me to close off the room. she would rather have doors in the 3 walk way spaces than leave them wide open from floor to 16 foot ceiling. I guess she is okay with spending a little more as long as I don't get to crazy.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I would install more outlets than you think you will ever need. I use USB charging port outlets in one of our rooms and I will be only using them in the HT. Run more wires for speakers than you think you will ever need too. Lastly I would runplastic pipe so you can always pull more wires if you need to down the road... As you said it seems like no one is ever done with their HT. So why not try and make sure you can upgrade to whatever you want in the future.


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## zonecoaster1 (Jan 23, 2014)

Interesting space to design for. My initial thought was: "I would just go with a television-based system in this room." Having thought about it more, though, here is what I'm ruminating on:

*1. Long room for a back-mounted projector*

*A.* Mount it floor-mounted in the middle someplace (may be loud, hot, smelly) for those sitting around it. As was already mentioned, this could be inside a cabinet-/ottoman-/table-looking deal of some sort.

*B. *(my choice) Mount it to the wall above the door at the back (projector mount, shelf, box). This would also let you move it forward a bit more. Another possibility would be to close off that door, or place a shelving unit of some sort in front of it and put the projector on/in that.


*2. Tough spot to put a screen, especially if you want to bring it as close to the projector as possible*

*A.* Use a 'rise-up' screen that you could place closer to the projector and have rise up on top of an entertainment unit, in front of an entertainment unit, or built into its own entertainment unit:

Elitescreens
Elunevision Screens
Stewart Screens (cost prohibitive...)

















*B.* Use wall mounts for the screen, to push it forward off the wall by some offset (eg. 1 foot), bringing it that extra little bit closer to your projector.










These come in various lengths that will let you slide the screen back and forward as much as 30" (fine for a non-motorized screen, iffy otherwise, unless you get fancy). If you did something like these then you could build a box/soffit of some sort to hide them from view. That still wouldn't solve the problem of a box/screen still looking funny sitting across that front recess. Of course if you built a stage as you mentioned, earlier, then this wouldn't be an issue.

For the HT equipment, I would suggest leaving it up front in your case, and running speaker wire along/behind the baseboards. If 5.1 is your goal then that would only mean a couple of longer wire runs along the baseboards, although once you have them off, might as well run as much as you might need in the future (7.x, 9.x, 11.x).

As has been said, if you wanted to mount equipment at the back then you would just have to have HDMI runs up to the front. We did this for our build, but since the room's already built and presumably you want to minimize the amount of hole-making and wire-running through walls, I would avoid this and just keep all the AV stuff (aside from the projector) up front.

The 5030/6030 could throw an image 20', but I wouldn't rely on it to be good on anything except full power. At 20' front to back, if you could push the screen forward, either with a pop-up screen or supports of some sort, and push the projector forward on a shelf, you could reduce that throw to 17.5', potentially.

You might also want to consider shortening the support length on the ceiling fan if it's in the way of the projector and you're not otherwise stuck on the fan for actual use, but want it there for the aesthetic appeal.

Just some thoughts...

I will be following your build with interest.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

There are some great suggestions above - I wanted to drop another suggestion for the gaming consoles. I put an HDMI outlet on the front wall that actually uses cat6 wire between the two panels. It works great for me - here is a link:

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=104&cp_id=10425&cs_id=1042501&p_id=8009&seq=1&format=2:


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

I was looking at building a false wall in front with a fixed screen that would sit 2 feet from the front wall which is 20 feet (total length) -2 feet equals 18 feet then if I mount it on the back wall 1 foot then that will give me 17 feet I am looking at the Panasonic PT-AE8000U

throw distance for a 104" wide screen is between 11'9"-23'6" so the back wall may work


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## bamabum (Dec 7, 2012)

bump


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## davidinomaha (Feb 20, 2014)

If you are planning on moving your screen forward a few feet anyway, I would look into the possibility of an "acoustically transparent" (AT) screen. They cost a bit more but would allow you to place your left-center-right- speakers behind the screen.

I hadn't thought of that option until I visited this forum.


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## zonecoaster1 (Jan 23, 2014)

bump


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## joed (Jul 30, 2013)

The more I have been looking into it I really need those 2 extra feet plus the way the room is set up it does have a cut out behind the screen but it is way off center to fit all the speakers in. Since that wall is a front of the house wall I can not make any adjustments. 

What stinks is that this house we are supposed to move into now has been moved back until end of summer so I have to put this baby on ice. 

This good is that I have a lot of stuff planned and mapped out but the bad is now I have to wait.

Dag,

Joe


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## zonecoaster1 (Jan 23, 2014)

Bummer, but 'on hold' is better than 'canceled.' :T


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