# refurbished receivers



## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Has any one had any dealings with accessories for less? I was thinking about getting either a onkyo 809 or a denon 3312. They have good prices on refurbished units and come with a 1 year warranty. I am a little hesitant , I know you can get a extended warranty through onkyo, but not sure about denon.


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

I would consider this forum A4L heavy. There are many patrons of A4L here around these parts. Some, like myself, have purchased a couple of items from them. I think they offer extended warranties on all the items they sell and theyre factory authorized for, I believe, everything they sell. Ive been very pleased with their speed of shipping and quality of merchandise, to say nothing of their great prices. Only kicker is for folks in Florida, you often get to pay both shipping and certainly taxes for any product shipped to FL. Seriously-discounted products often still make them the best price, even for Floridians.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

They are fantastic, they have great customer service and are definatly one of the better on line distributors of AV gear. I have delt with them twice now and both transactions have gone without any issues.


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## cavchameleon (Jan 7, 2008)

+1. A4Less is very easy to deal with. Between my friends and I, we have purchases 5 AVR's with no issues. I would not hesitate to purchase from them again.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Ok, thanks for the replies . I feel more comfortable ordering from them.


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## soundoff (Oct 3, 2007)

Couple more questions:

Lets say a recall was issued by a MFG would A4L purge their inventory or is there a chance I would be sent a unit i would then have to send back ?

What about software download revision, is this also updated or is only a user installed update


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

soundoff said:


> Couple more questions:
> 
> Lets say a recall was issued by a MFG would A4L purge their inventory or is there a chance I would be sent a unit i would then have to send back ?
> 
> What about software download revision, is this also updated or is only a user installed update



As Onkyo and Denon both are selling B-Stock or Refurbished AVR's almost entirely, I honestly cannot remember a time when there was an issue in terms of Firmware or Hardware as AC4L almost always gets them Months after mainstream retailers. More often than not, major issues manifest upon initial release as the AVR Marketplace is cutthroat and Beta Testing seems to have been foisted upon the Consumer. As for concerns about Recalls, Onkyo recent x09 Series built in the last months of production. (November, December, January), this was due to a Circuit Board if memory serves. This Recall actually only affected Authorized A-Stock Dealers and seemed to be primarily Amazon at that. Moreover, as even the lowest tier of AVR's are equipped with Ethernet Ports these days, Firmware Updates have been available via either Ethernet or USB.

As for a DOA Arrival, a big reason I often recommend AC4L is that there is a 30 Day Return Policy. Be it Brand New or Refurbished there are simply going to be bad eggs. In addition, prior to AC4L offering Denon, Ecost and Dakmart only offered a 90 Day Warranty whereas AC4L was able to negotiate with Denon USA to bring it up to 1 Year. And with Onkyo, you can add an additional 2 years of Manufacturers Warranty for around $60 to bring it up to 3 years of Manufacturer's Warranty. This is 1 Year longer than the standard Onkyo Warranty. 

All this being said, I often do recommend Newegg and or Amazon whenever the prices are anywhere close as it always nicer to have a brand new AVR and the full Warranty. However, Newegg actually offers a less lenient Return Policy than AC4L. Amazon offers the same one as AC4L I believe.

It certainly is an easy conclusion that many of us here most often recommend AC4L, but do bear in mind we have no Storefront and anytime I can find a great deal and they are an Authorized Dealer is what I am going to recommend. While for AVR's AC4L is quite often recommended, for Speakers for those on a set budget I cannot remember the last time I did not link to Newegg...


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

I bought my 606 and 707 from A4L and they've been perfect. My 906 and 809 were bought new. My feeling is that if I can get it new from an authorized dealer for no more than $100 more then I'd buy new. But if I can save $100 buying refurbished from A4L then I go for it. But I will not buy a refurbished receiver from anyone other than A4L, there have just been too many horror stories about some of the others.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

I missed a great deal amazon had on the denon 3312 and it seems like remaining new 809's are going at a premium price. So, ac4l seems like the best option.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

A4L is awesome and would have purchased but missed my deal. I purchased my Elite VSX-30 from Hookedontronics and saved almost $300. I doubt very seriously there would be any issues with any product ordered and purchased from A4L. I have them bookmarked :T


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Newegg almost always has their best prices on the Weekend. Also, if you can find a great deal on the 709, you really are not sacrificing too much. While the HQV Vida Video Processor in the 809 is outstanding, the Marvell Qdeo which is the sole VP in the 709 and is used in tandem in the 809 on up, is very good. It was used as the sole VP in the ultra high dollar Pioneer SC-09TX and is also used as the featured VP in the OPPO BDP-93 and BDP-95.

That aside, the 709 offers the same level of Audyssey Processing (MultEQ XT), similar power output, Preamp Outputs, and THX Post Processing. Amazingly, the 709's replacement (TX-NR717) has moved up to a $1000 MSRP while simultaneously dropping from MultEQ XT to 2EQ. 2EQ is the most base implementation of Audyssey and does not provide filtering for the Subwoofer/LFE Channel. XT actually dedicates a higher percentage of filtering on the LFE when the Speakers are set to Small. 

And while the 717 has become an AVR I would never recommend, the 809's replacement the TX-NR818 moves up to MultEQ XT32 and is the first AVR I know of to offer it with an MSRP under $2000 and the street price should be half that or less. It is one of the most eagerly anticipated AVR's to hit the market in some time and if the pricing is not too far off is decidedly worth considering.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

park41 said:


> I missed a great deal amazon had on the denon 3312 and it seems like remaining new 809's are going at a premium price. So, ac4l seems like the best option.


About the only other thing that you can do is setup alerts on some of the deal sites and hope that a sale happens within your time frame.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Newegg almost always has their best prices on the Weekend. Also, if you can find a great deal on the 709, you really are not sacrificing too much. While the HQV Vida Video Processor in the 809 is outstanding, the Marvell Qdeo which is the sole VP in the 709 and is used in tandem in the 809 on up, is very good. It was used as the sole VP in the ultra high dollar Pioneer SC-09TX and is also used as the featured VP in the OPPO BDP-93 and BDP-95.
> 
> That aside, the 709 offers the same level of Audyssey Processing (MultEQ XT), similar power output, Preamp Outputs, and THX Post Processing. Amazingly, the 709's replacement (TX-NR717) has moved up to a $1000 MSRP while simultaneously dropping from MultEQ XT to 2EQ. 2EQ is the most base implementation of Audyssey and does not provide filtering for the Subwoofer/LFE Channel. XT actually dedicates a higher percentage of filtering on the LFE when the Speakers are set to Small.
> ...


Slightly off topic, but would the 709 be a better performer than the denon 3312?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

They are about the same, both are good receivers.


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

park41 said:


> Slightly off topic, but would the 709 be a better performer than the denon 3312?


I like Onkyo receivers but in my opinion it's almost a wash. I don't recall if the Denon has preouts but otherwise they're neck and neck. 

There are some Roku/Netflix in DD+5.1/Onkyo receiver compatibility issues that seem to be cropping up but it may not be limited to Onkyo and there is a workaround until it's fixed. In fact I don't know if it's a Roku issue, a Netflix issue, or an Onkyo issue just that (per the Roku forums) it's a known issue issue.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

sholling said:


> I like Onkyo receivers but in my opinion it's almost a wash. I don't recall if the Denon has preouts but otherwise they're neck and neck.
> 
> There are some Roku/Netflix in DD+5.1/Onkyo receiver compatibility issues that seem to be cropping up but it may not be limited to Onkyo and there is a workaround until it's fixed. In fact I don't know if it's a Roku issue, a Netflix issue, or an Onkyo issue just that (per the Roku forums) it's a known issue issue.


Hello,
That is interesting as when using the PS3, I have had zero issues with using 5.1 via Netflix. As for the 3312 and 709 comparison, they are more similar than their MSRP's indicate in terms of features and power. The Denon does offer Airplay Support whereas the 709 does not. The 3312 does have Preamp Outputs as well it is the lowest Denon AVR Series to offer it in the US. (ROW non CI 2311 does have Preamp Outputs but 2312 does not) So now both US and ROW Denon's least expensive AVR Series with Preamp Outputs is the 33xx Series. If you can find a 3312 for anywhere close to a 709, I would probably go that direction.
Cheers,
JJ


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## sholling (Oct 6, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> That is interesting as when using the PS3, I have had zero issues with using 5.1 via Netflix. As for the 3312 and 709 comparison, they are more similar than their MSRP's indicate in terms of features and power. The Denon does offer Airplay Support whereas the 709 does not. The 3312 does have Preamp Outputs as well it is the lowest Denon AVR Series to offer it in the US. (ROW non CI 2311 does have Preamp Outputs but 2312 does not) So now both US and ROW Denon's least expensive AVR Series with Preamp Outputs is the 33xx Series. If you can find a 3312 for anywhere close to a 709, I would probably go that direction.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I suspect that it's a Roku and/or Roku specific Netflix client issue because nothing else creates a similar problem but once your screen goes lavender you either have to reset the Roku box or change the Roku resolution setting (1080-->72-->1080) to get normal color back. But the direct-video workaround works really well and I've had no further problems. It's just something to be aware of when recommending receivers right now.


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

Wow JJ, I think your opinion on the onkyo 717 is being echoed around the retail outlets. Because newegg is asking 699.99 for the 709. I haven't seen it that pricey since it first came out. I'am I missing something?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

park41 said:


> Wow JJ, I think your opinion on the onkyo 717 is being echoed around the retail outlets. Because newegg is asking 699.99 for the 709. I haven't seen it that pricey since it first came out. I'am I missing something?


Hello,
I have never been more disappointed with Onkyo than I was when I read the 717's spec sheet. While I certainly understand wanting to differentiate the 700 Series and the 800 Series, but now the 700 Series is all but identical to the 600 Series with the exception of it having Preamp Outputs. All the while costing $1000.
I will say this, if I were a 709 Owner and Onkyo decided to replace it with a 717, I would beg for Refurbished 709 or upcharge to an 818.
Cheers,
JJ


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

the Onkyo 807 i purchased 18 months ago was bad out of the box , and they would NOT make it good , so i had to send it in for service which took 2 months to fix. and worked fine until tonight , the HDMI has now failed. I highly recommend you purchase a EXTENDED warranty if you buy refurbished. i'm not sure i would buy from them again. or Onkyo , but that's me


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

+1 for accessories4less. I bought a refurb Denon 3312 and got great service.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

mandtra said:


> the Onkyo 807 i purchased 18 months ago was bad out of the box , and they would NOT make it good , so i had to send it in for service which took 2 months to fix. and worked fine until tonight , the HDMI has now failed. I highly recommend you purchase a EXTENDED warranty if you buy refurbished. i'm not sure i would buy from them again. or Onkyo , but that's me


Hello,
I am trying to understand how the 807 could not have been returned if it was defective when you got it as AC4L has a 30 Day Return Policy. All the same, I am truly sorry your experience has been so poor. Also, I could not agree more about the Extended Warranty and have constantly referred to Shopponkyo.com in respect to extending the Manufacturers Warranty to 3 Years.
Cheers,
JJ


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## park41 (Jan 20, 2012)

In order to get the extended warranty from onkyo, do you have to purchase it at the time of purchase or before the one year warranty that comes with the ac4l units, runs out?


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

The reason they would not do anything about it (A4L) was when I purchased the RX , i wasn't quiet ready for it , and when i was around 45 days had passed and when i hooked it up ,it was DOA. I talked to them at A4L and they wouldn't budge on their 30 day policy. I guess it depends on how you look at it. my unit was DOA out of the box and he could just as easily have swapped it out and returned it to Onkyo for full credit (i offered to pay the shipping both units both ways) and it wouldn't have been no skin off his nose ,wouldn't cost him anything ,(wouldn't have cost them a penny) and he would have had a repeat customer instead of a upset one. Yes i understand he has a 30day return policy , but what happened to *doing the right thing!* so i sent it in for service and waited 2 months for my brand new RX powering my brand new dedicated home theater to be repaired . Would any of you felt any different?? I just spent $ 40, 000 on construction of my new home theater and when it was totally finished a dead in the box unit cost me another two months .


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

mandtra said:


> The reason they would not do anything about it (A4L) was when I purchased the RX , i wasn't quiet ready for it , and when i was around 45 days had passed and when i hooked it up ,it was DOA. I talked to them at A4L and they wouldn't budge on their 30 day policy. I guess it depends on how you look at it. my unit was DOA out of the box and he could just as easily have swapped it out and returned it to Onkyo for full credit (i offered to pay the shipping both units both ways) and it wouldn't have been no skin off his nose ,wouldn't cost him anything ,(wouldn't have cost them a penny) and he would have had a repeat customer instead of a upset one. Yes i understand he has a 30day return policy , but what happened to *doing the right thing!* so i sent it in for service and waited 2 months for my brand new RX powering my brand new dedicated home theater to be repaired . Would any of you felt any different?? I just spent $ 40, 000 on construction of my new home theater and when it was totally finished a dead in the box unit cost me another two months .




There is more to a factory-authorized DOA than just shipping. Did it occur to you that after 45 days A4L _themselves_ might be completely ineligible to return the defective receiver to Onkyo for full credit? Meaning they eat the entire cost of the AVR even if you paid shipping "both ways."

You were essentially asking for preferential treatment. You were asking to be exempt from a perfectly reasonable 30 day return policy that _every other customer_ is bound by. A4L is factory-authorized and thus is bound by the rules, that 30 day return policy is one of them rules.

Personally, I don't think you have anyone to blame but yourself, as DOA happens, and its up to you to make sure that it doesnt happen to _you_.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

So your saying , if they had let me return it , Onkyo would have magically knew exactly how long i had it? I work with retail and wholesale sales daily ,including RTV RGA etc. whether i had had it one day , or six months , Onyko wouldn't have known the difference. and you may say that would have been dishonest , but i say not , since it was bad out of the box . not to mention , it has food smeared on the face from dirty hands , and scratches on the face , as well and lets not forget it has once again died , now out of warranty. I for one will NEVER buy from A4L again , There's benefits from buying locally, and from larger companies such as Newegg , Amazon etc. I have never had a problem returning something with either of them , even after the warranty period. All this just because I didn't open the box un til i was ready to install it . SHAME ON ME


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## TypeA (Aug 14, 2010)

mandtra said:


> I work with retail and wholesale sales daily ,including RTV RGA etc. whether i had had it one day , or six months , Onyko wouldn't have known the difference. and you may say that would have been dishonest , but i say not , since it was bad out of the box .


I would say that, and I would add that the end does not justify the means.


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## Onkyolover (Jul 9, 2012)

Hello park am new to this so here we go I purchase a refurbished 809 whith the full waranty I got 50% off it as if it was new from frys electronics works perfectly fine I don't sea nothing wrong whit u purchasing one if enything you will be saving .


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

mandtra said:


> The reason they would not do anything about it (A4L) was when I purchased the RX , i wasn't quiet ready for it , and when i was around 45 days had passed and when i hooked it up ,it was DOA. I talked to them at A4L and they wouldn't budge on their 30 day policy. I guess it depends on how you look at it. my unit was DOA out of the box and he could just as easily have swapped it out and returned it to Onkyo for full credit (i offered to pay the shipping both units both ways) and it wouldn't have been no skin off his nose ,wouldn't cost him anything ,(wouldn't have cost them a penny) and he would have had a repeat customer instead of a upset one. Yes i understand he has a 30day return policy , but what happened to *doing the right thing!* so i sent it in for service and waited 2 months for my brand new RX powering my brand new dedicated home theater to be repaired . Would any of you felt any different?? I just spent $ 40, 000 on construction of my new home theater and when it was totally finished a dead in the box unit cost me another two months .


Hello,
I truly could not be more sympathetic to your experience. Do bear in mind that with other retailers of B-Stock or Refurbished AVR's the Manufacturers Warranty can be as short as 45 Days and is most often 90 Days. To add insult to injury, the Return Policy is nowhere near as generous as AC4L's. Prior to AC4L adding Denon, Dakmart and Ecost both only offered a 90 Day Warranty and a much stricter Return Policy.

AC4L's policy is pretty much identical to Best Buy unless you are a RZ Silver Member (45 Days) Given that they sell the AVR's for usually the lowest price on the market and are authorized, it honestly does not get much better than that. DOA's occur on both A-Stock and B-Stock's. Unfortunately, you were simply in the very small minority that did not install and use the AVR within the first 30 Days. I know it will not assuage your anger, but I hope it might provide some context...
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I personally would never buy something and then let it sit unopened for weeks or more, You have to take some responsibility for this as you should have checked the unit right after you received it. Passing the blame on to AC4L is a little unjustified given these things do happen and its even possible that it was damaged during shipping.


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## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

My personal opinion is buying refurbished is NOT worth the risk. (just my personal opinion & experience) If buying from A4L or any other seller of refurbished items for home theater. 

(1) read the fine print on the website (carefully), make sure you can return it with NO PENALTIES if the unit is scratched , or has food smeared on it, or DOA . etc. (view their return policy!!!!!!!!!!)

(2) If you still do buy refurbished , please consider some type of extended warranty as most refurbished units will have a shorter warranty , (and it's refurbished for a reason)

(3) open that box as soon as possible , and test through (they have 30 day return policies for a reason)

(4) pay with your credit card , (easier to dispute the charges later)

(5) research online very thoroughly. it is possible at times to buy new units heavily discounted , close to the same price as refurbished , and in my recent case even LOWER (though rare) esp Onkyo


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