# 7.1 on an $1800 DIY budget



## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I have been tasked by my father to make the HT in his new home sound like the one in mine. I think I can get him close, until we get to the subs. The floor plan is open, with the kitchen/dining area behind the main seating, three ajoining hallways, tall ceilings, tile floor, floor to ceiling glass on the long wall. They want for the mains, sub, and center to be in cabinet on the floor that is 12' long and 2' tall, with a 70' plasma screen above it. The builder won't let us do anything until the home has closed, my mother says "no!" on in or on-wall mains, or horn subs in the ceiling. The surrounds in the ceiling with unlimited space in the attic above. Two more surrounds in a different area on a different channel. 

Here is what I am thinking, but *I really need you guys to throw in some ideas, especially with the DIY main, surrounds, sub build options*. 4.6 cubes max on sub.

Onkyo 717 - not included in budget #s

mains
Zaph ZDT3.5 - around $250 each
http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

center
Zaph ZD3C - around $250 each

surrounds
Classix II kit - around $100 each x 6
http://meniscusaudio.com/classixii-pair-p-1333.html

sub
Dayton RSS460 HO 18" - $250
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/sho...&utm_content=295-472&utm_campaign=email092012

Dayton 1000w plate amp $270


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## fusseli (May 1, 2007)

It looks to me like you ahve a great set of speakers picked out. I argue that matching L/R or L/C/R is far more important than having matching surrounds. The only content surrounds really get are occassional whooshes, doorbells, helicopters, bullets, etc. So unless budget is no issue I think that going with a cheaper build combo for the surrounds is perfectly acceptable and should work great.

As for the sub, that Dayton RS 18" will work with 4.6cuft as a sealed cabinet. It would need a much larger cabinet to make good use of it in a ported alignment. If the room this stuff is going into is open and large, you might want to consider a good 15" sub and go ported in order to get the best low end response in-room. You'll also probably want to shoot for a sub in the 250-300W, or higher, range... 100W really isn't much.


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## lucasa.miller (Jan 25, 2012)

I would build all speakers out of the Tritrix kit from parts express. Get two stereo integrity 18s and a crown drivecore xls 2500 amp for the subs.

That would be under $1600 and leave you with leftover to purchase box building supplies.


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## lucasa.miller (Jan 25, 2012)

Or even three overnight sensation Mtm for the LCR and the regular overnight sensation for the rest. 

You can get kits including the wood in flat pack from diy soundgroup for under $600.

FYI, the crown would push over 700 watts to each sub. Way better than the 100 in your original post.


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## ItsADucati2012 (Dec 26, 2012)

sounds good!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Great ideas guys, thanks. Sorry, I meant the Dayton 1000w plate amp, not 100! I completely forgot about the SI sub since it hasn't shipped yet, but this one has a leg up un the Dayton. Since dealing with CSS for my subs, I enjoy dealing with the smaller builders when I can. Plus they are cheaper and look like they are built better than the Dayton. Win win! I can only use one for this build, no room for two. I have only. 21.5x21.5x22 deep exterior dimensions for the sub. 

I would like to save some money on the surrounds if I could and put them somewhere else in the build, such as something better for the patio speakers or better pieces for the mains/center. You know how these builds go. A dollar here and there ends up $300 after 8 enclosures and the bits, blades, and supplies to build them. The overnight sensation kit might be OK for the surrounds. I am afraid of anything smaller than a 7" driver though...


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Could do 1pi or 2pi kits. Woofers meet your size requirements and the kits meet your price range. Options, options


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Who's design, Vann? Do you have a link?


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Pispeakers.com

Wayne Parham is a pretty well respected designer. His designs use high sensitivity pro woofers. I'm gonna be building some 4pi's in the next month.


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

i think you have a solid plan here. do you have an option to build 2 15" subs ? or does your space needs dictate one sub?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Unforntunately one sub. But, this is for my parents and their volume requirements are far less than us goofballs. I pulled the trigger on a Stereo Integrity 18" D2 which I will run for a 4 ohm load to the EP4000. Preliminary tests state that 750 watts is about all they can use, which will keep the fan running a bit slower on the EP4000 when movies are at full tilt. The sub is in the planning stage, but I'll set that up in a different thread...


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

vann_d said:


> Pispeakers.com
> 
> Wayne Parham is a pretty well respected designer. His designs use high sensitivity pro woofers. I'm gonna be building some 4pi's in the next month.


Those look nice and I need to spend a bit more time on his site. What drivers does he use, or are they his Pi brand?


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

dougc said:


> Those look nice and I need to spend a bit more time on his site. What drivers does he use, or are they his Pi brand?


In his 1pi and 2pi, I believe he uses Vifa tweeters with Eminence midwoofers. The 3pi and 4pi use Eminence or B&C compression drivers with Eminence, JBL, or AE midwoofers.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I think I have decided against the use of horns for this. They are the current rage, but I don't think I want to use my parents as guinea pigs for my curiosity.

I have really been mulling over the use of the Classix II for the surrounds (meniscus) because they seem to be tried and true drivers, and affordable. Then, while on that site, I started looking at the Statements monitors and Statements center. Problem is that it puts me over budget as they would be $100 more for each. How do you guys think that the Statements would compare to the Zaph ZDT series?

statements:
http://meniscusaudio.com/statements-monitor-pair-p-1358.html

zaph:
http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I finished the sub a few weeks ago and am happy with the results there. I ended up using the iNuke 1000dsp for the amp since the sub only needs 600w, and has DSP built in. I can't imagine better performance for something in this size package. The output from a THT would destory it for the same price, but this is 8x smaller.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ity-18-d2-sealed-build-log.html#axzz2JsEAGhma


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I spent hours on the phone with Mark and Chad from Meniscus discussing the rest of the speakers and options - great guys. I went with the Classix II for the 4 surrounds and two speakers for the lenai. The two on the lenai will be powered on Zone 2 of the Onkyo 709 by the Dayton APA150 75wpc amp. I have all of the cuts made for the baffles, built the crossovers, and finished a rough version of a pair to listen to while I complete the rest. They sound incredible for this simple little speaker.


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## Jstslamd (Nov 30, 2010)

Any updates?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I have finished all of the baffles for the surrounds, have the baffles finished for the LCR enclosures, and the 9 crossovers for the LCR. I have been slacking on my pics for you guys, I'm a slacker!


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Alrighty, here are some better photos of the sub.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Build pis of the Classix II from Meniscus:


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)




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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

This is one of the trial enclosures I made for listening. I always at least make a baffle to test depths and width for router cuts. I just set it up there for the pic, but I have them 8' apart, and 12' from my listening position in front of my reef tank there. They sound pretty sweet. I prefer more mid bass, but , for the price they are awesome. I didn't spend much time on the finish since they will be behind a screen in the ceiling, but I couldn't leave them too unfinished out of principle. My dad has built and installed the final enclosures in the ceilings of his new house. All we have to do is remove the fake baffles, attach the wires, install the baffles, install the snap-in bevels over the top.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The ZDT3.5 L, C, R baffles ready for the rest of the enclosures. They are 16.5" wide, by 20" tall, 15" deep, 8" back panel, two 3" long, 1.5 diameter ports for 41hz. 



















The tweeter and mid each has their own crossover, and the drivers share a crossover, one receiving more mid bass, the other covering a bit lower. The designer says that they don't need to be separated since there is no difference in the performance, but I will still use some cross-sectional bracing. The ones on the left row are some of the networks for the Classix II.


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## Jstslamd (Nov 30, 2010)

I've never seen this baffle arrangement before. Where did you get this design ?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Normally the drivers would be aligned for a tall, deep, and narrow cabinet. The mid/tweet tightness is the most important pairing for the ZDT. Width wasn't much of a concern since I have 24" of depth to play with, I made them side-by-side rather than dropping a woofer from the design and widening the frequencies of one woofer to play the part of two. I'm able to maintain a low tune with keeping the volume at 0.7 per driver, and mid and tweeter remaining stacked. The height for any combo of drivers in this arrangement isn't ideal since the tweeter will be 24" from the floor, short of the ideal 35" height for their seating, but I have to make the best of it with making the enclosures pie-shaped for tow-in at listening position and propping up the fronts with some feet to get as close to on-axis as possible. The guys at Meniscus helped me through the design and feel good about the arrangement with a couple of little tweaks to the crossover. I don't want to have to stick to a totally cookie-cutter arrangement, since each application is different, and it makes the design more fun to put together. The other best option would have been a Pi design or one of the SEOS waveguide designs, but I didn't wan't you try horns out with my parents' money without ever hearing that sort of design for myself.


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## Jstslamd (Nov 30, 2010)

Just seems like bsc would play a pretty substantial role with making the baffle that much wider but I'm sure meniscus knows better than myself. I'm just a mere idiot with too many tools lol


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Jstslamd said:


> Just seems like bsc would play a pretty substantial role with making the baffle that much wider but I'm sure meniscus knows better than myself. I'm just a mere idiot with too many tools lol


Ha! I'm clueless too once I'm slightly beyond the basic stuff, ie, what is bsc. 

Here is a dry fit after lots of sawdust:


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## fusseli (May 1, 2007)

The baffle step frequency would be shifted down by the wide baffle, and perhaps less significantly, the ripple/bump from tweeter diffraction would have changed. It was probably small enough of a change that it only needed a tweak on a couple components, which could be easy to do. If Meniscus did it for you and you can verify that by some values changing from the original crossover design, you should be good to go and worry free :T

Nice handy work by the way! I think the end result will be impressive.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I'm not sure I would notice a subtle difference either way, and I don't have a mic and all that, but I would like to learn more about it for future projects and someday get a mic for testing and also learn more about building crossovers. I feel like I might get over my head pretty fast though, and I enjoy talking to and supporting the guys that are in the business like Meniscus, CSS, Stereo Integrity, etc. They always find a way to get me going in the right direction with little tweaks like we are talking about here, as do all the folks here on the Shack. Such a cool hobby, eh?


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I am in the Bondo, sand, prime stage, but I couldn't resist piecing the crossovers and drivers into one of the enclosures for a listen since they are so close. The sound from the ZDT is so full and natural. The Classix that I built first have a very impressive sound for a bookshelf, but the ZDT is the real deal. The midrange is more dominant on this design that most that I have heard, which are usually MTMs these days. They still need a sub to cover the deep end for my taste, but crossed at 40hz, the sound is even from very low volume to high with the sealed SI 18. My only gripe would be that the tweeter sounds a tad soft.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I should have these complete sometime tomorrow. I just have to solder the wires from the crossovers to the drivers and put it all together. One is complete, two to go...


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Sorry guys, these have been finished for over a month now and I have yet to get photos as promised. 

I have been worried about the baffle reflections, as suggested in some earlier posts. I think the reflections will be OK due to the offset arrangement in the L & R and the attenuation for the center's reflections about 400hz will be on target for a center. Still I think that I will add some felt to the fat side of the L & R mids and to both sides of the mid of the center just in case. Flush mounting will help minimize attenuation from the reflections and the radius at the edge should help diffraction. Thanks for bringing it up and forcing me to learn about something I never knew existed! 

Here is a must-read for anyone planning to build their own enclosure ever:
http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=160

http://www.salksound.com/wp/?p=42


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Here are some farewell shots of the finished speakers. They are heading back to Florida with my Pops tomorrow since their new home is complete.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

I think I should build a couple of these stacks for my 2ch system. What do you think?


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## fusseli (May 1, 2007)

Those are beautiful, bravo! :clap:


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

those came out amazing... would love to hear them


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks guys! I really am a bit depressed to see them go.


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

id also like to comments on the nice layout of your crossovers... they are superb.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thank you! Not my design, but I enjoyed making the crossovers tidy. 

Just got back from Florida installing the HT at my parents' new home. I had a few issues getting their router to talk to the Onkyo network, figuring out multiple issues with Zone 2, and a/v sync was off 430ms. I am pretty jealous of their setup. Big, open floorplan with tall ceilings. Not the ideal space for HT, but the surround speakers are spread out enough to really make you feel "inside" of the audio. It sounds amazing. I have a couple more photos of the install, and have a couple more than I'm waiting on.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

The enclosure was installed before the drywall was hung. This is from one of the two lenai speakers.


Then the baffle I made with the crossovers ready to screw in. The bezel was a perfect fit. This shot is from the main room surround.


A shot back toward the Surround L & R and Surround Back L & R. I used THX recommended measurements for the Surround Back 2c.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

My dad is finishing the cabinetry for all that you see here, minus plant. That is a 70" Sharp 3d.


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

wow that looks great.... good job.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

thanks fschris!

Some more progress. My dad finished the stain and poly on his cabinetry over the last few weeks and is just waiting for the slab of granite top to arrive. The HDMI on the LCD is acting up, so they are dealing with Direct Buy to get that repaired or replaced.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Awesome! Well done :hail:


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## TheLaw612 (Jan 17, 2012)

That is really cool. I can't wait to see what it looks like finished with the granite on top. Well done! :clap:


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

That looks very sleek and impressive. Did you consider having extra cables ran in case one was messed up you would have a spare.


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## dougc (Dec 19, 2009)

Thanks! The cables are very easy to pull through.


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## brian_smith06 (May 22, 2013)

Gorgous! :TT


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