# SVS PB12-NSD vs. HSU VTF3-MK3



## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

I am looking for help deciding between the SVS & HSU; sub will mostly be used for movie watching, but we do enjoy our music too. Never owned a product from either manufacturer, so feedback would be greatly appreciated.


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Understand that a lot of us here have previously done the research comparison and have chosen SVS for the best bang for the buck. SVS also has a forum section here at the shack -- good people to work with. :T

Not to say that HSU does not get respect.

Just my opinion. :hsd:


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

The SVS and HSU will perform almost equally, but the SVS costs significantly less. I'd go with SVS.


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## kyeo138 (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi, first post here, but I also was comparing these two subs, but I saw the price difference between the HSU VTF-3 MK 3 and SVS PB12-NSD as only $30. So if that is the case, and you were starting from scratch, would you get the HSU?

----------------
About me, I have a YST-900 HTIB that I'm ready to upgrade. It's about 6 or 7 years old, no HDMI etc...
I won't be doing this until later this summer, most likely at the same time I upgrade to a new 55" LCD as well. My room size is about 16'x16' with 10' ceilings and a big open wall into a dining room. Currently carpet, but will be removing it for hardwood. I'm not an audiophile, but I am pretty technically savvy and am reading up on a lot of things.

What I'm considering (Besides these 2 subs) are:

TV: Samsung LN55B8000 55" LCD	
Vizio VF551XVT 55" LCD	

Receiver:	Yamaha RX-V1900 
Denon AVR-2809CI 


Speakers:	SVS 7.0 SCS-01(M) 
HSU 6xHB-1MK2 and 1xHC-1MK2


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## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

Actually, the HSU is on sale for $629. Everyone seems to lean towards the SVS subs anyway...


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## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

I just upgraded to a Samsung PN58A650(plasma) and can not say enough about this TV. Even my wife is thoroughly impressed. As far as the subs go, I too see the HSU at $629, but most of the post on here steer us towards the SVS. Tests are similar, but the SVS seems to perform a little better at the low frequencies. I am upgrading from a 15" 200 watt Cerwin Vega that is 10 years old, so it shgould not be hard to impress me. I just do not want to spend this kind of money and be disappointed. All that being said, I am leaning towards the SVS PB12 nsd.


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## kyeo138 (Jan 18, 2009)

Hi Pitbull, I'm definitely going LCD, only because I'll be using my PS3 and Wii a lot for games :R
There's a new Vizio VF551XV 55" coming out this summer. Supposedly with LG panel, 240Hz, 1,000,000:1 dynamic contrast (15,000:1 actual), etc... for a price at $1,999! I have a 40" Samsung LNT4066 now that I had in my apartment. Now married, and moved into a house so it's time to upgrade lol. 

But back on to the subs, SVS does look like a great company to work with. Plus I think I'm leaning towards the SVS SCS-01 7.0 surround speakers. Like you, I don't want to be disappointed but I think i'll be easily impressed as well. I'm upgrading from dual subs, Yamaha YST-SW205 150w and Onkyo SKW-200. It's too easy to get all caught up with all of the stats online, however if you stacked a few subs up for me I doubt i'd be able to tell the difference. 

One thing about the HSU though, it has a Turbo add-on that I guess really adds some more mid to it, but I can't find too much info about what it actually entails.


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## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

Jake,

good luck with your research! I plan on reading a bit more over the next couple weeks before making a decision. I too can find a lot of tests which state these two subs will perform closely, but was hoping someone who has auditioned both could help us with their opinion. Keep me posted on your decision.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

kyeo138 said:


> Hi, first post here, but I also was comparing these two subs, but I saw the price difference between the HSU VTF-3 MK 3 and SVS PB12-NSD as only $30. So if that is the case, and you were starting from scratch, would you get the HSU?


You forgot to add in the shipping. About $60 for the SVS, but $100 for the HSU. Makes the total swing $100, or over 15% of the purchase price.


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## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

good point!


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

I had narrowed down my choices to these two. I went with the PB-12 NSD because it was a little cheaper and the consensus of reviews I read seem to slightly favor it. I wish I could offer a comparison, but I've not heard the Hsu. Whichever you get, you'll have a winner!

I can speak of the SVS. They were very easy to work with. I sent them measurements of my room and indicated I was leaning towards the PB-12 NSD. They wrote me back and assured me that it would do fine in my new home theater room. I've been very pleased with its performance. It measured out well and more importantly, it sounds great!

We had some friends over to watch "The Dark Knight". When it was over, one of my friends, who bought a complete Klipsch setup from the surviving big box remarked: "OK, now I have a serious case of speaker envy!".

Doug


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## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

Doug, thanks for the info. How big is your HT room?


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

pitbull24 said:


> Doug, thanks for the info. How big is your HT room?


My home theater is a dyslexic "L". The main area is 16wx20d. The "foot" of the "L" is to the left back when facing the screen. It is 7wx8d. The ceiling is 9'. That gives the room 3384 cubic feet. There are two doors and no windows. You can see it here: http://picasaweb.google.com/dougbrucemac/HomeTheater

All the work, except for the carpet and acoustical ceiling, was done by me. There's 250 of speaker wire (the fronts can be bi-amped). It was all pay as you go. I started in February 2008 and finished in July, just before everything fell apart. My wife actually pushed for us to finish out the unfinished part of the basement. I'm glad she did, I'd be gun shy now.

Even at moderate volume, the PB12-NSD can rattle the pictures and doors with the low stuff! It's more than enough for us.

Doug


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## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

Very nice Doug, and thanks for the info on the SVS PB12-NSD. I will be starting construction on my HT room this spring. Any "wish you would have done differently" thoughts.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

pitbull24 said:


> Very nice Doug, and thanks for the info on the SVS PB12-NSD. I will be starting construction on my HT room this spring. Any "wish you would have done differently" thoughts.


Mainly I wish I had a little more room. My HT is great for up to five people. Past that it's a little tight. It's fine from a practical standpoint, since we rarely have more than five folks watching. If you have a large family or plan to have a lot of friends over, you'll need more room. 16x20 is a large room, just not a large theater room.

As for doing things differently, I would have fired our idiot contractor and electrician during the house construction! I already knew I wanted to utilize the HT space someday and told them specifically where to put the breaker boxes and air conditioner. They ignored me and put it in the wrong place. I enclosed it all in a closet, but I wish I had that space!

All modesty aside, I did a lot of planning and research and I feel I got a lot of things right. Here are some things I feel I got right that may be helpful in planning:

All inwall wire runs are in conduit. If I decide to use active speakers in the future, I'll have no problem rewiring for them. Although I have only one sub now, I put in a recepticle under the left main to make it easy to add one. I guess if I was really smart I would have wired to be able to use four subs!

One of the smartest things I did was mount the equipment cabinet in the wall. It sits on a platform in an adjacent storage room. I've spent decades crawling behind equipment to hook it up, now I can comfortably stand and make any needed connections. I'll post some photos.

Use the available charts and information to determine screen size. Our screen is ~110" diagonal. With our 720p projector and viewing distance, we're right on the edge of being able to see pixels (my vision is 20/10 corrected). If we had 1080p, I think the screen could have been slightly larger, but I don't think standard DVDs would look quite as good. As it stands, they look surprisingly good. I'm glad we decided to go with a DIY painted screen. I took extra care when framing the front and the guy that helped me hang and mud the sheetrock did a superb job. The screen is just a KILZ2 primer covered by the Pratt & Lambert equivalent of Sherwin William's Grey Screen. I just took my time and rolled it on carefully.

Light control is a tremendous help. That includes controlling all light in the room as well as painting the room dark. The optimum would have been dark grey, but it would have been just too ugly. Our paint color choices work really well controlling the light. Armstrong makes black acoustic tile and rails and that was well worth paying a little more to get. I had the house built with a 12' high basement, so hanging a ceiling and still getting 9' was easy. I could have actually gone 10', but the calculations worked out better for 9'.

Little things like putting the cans for the lighting on different circuits and having the lights in the theater area on a remote dimmer have been wonderful. We rarely watch in a totally dark room, we set the lights to the lowest dimmer setting, which allows you to just make out objects. Carefully planning the placement of the light cans so no light spills on the screen also helped.

Doug


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## dachness (Feb 17, 2009)

Did any one of you end up making a decision? I personally would be stuck between the PB12-NSD and the Outlaw LMF-1 EX. 

I know that they are both excellent subs but I think I would lean towards the Outlaw because of its footprint. 

I however won't be upgrading from my HTIB sub for quite a while. Decided to get speakers first...

Daniel


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## pitbull24 (Jan 17, 2009)

Haven't pulled the trigger yet!


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

Ive never heard anything but great things about svs subs.Although i have the Hsu Vtf Mk3 Ho and the mbm12 and im crazy about them.
I removed the turbo and run in max output mode as im getting down to 12-15 hz without the turbo.
The mk3 is a beast and the Hsu support is phenomenal(not that svs' support isnt)i cant say enough good about these subs,the guy i bought the subs from bought an svs 13 ultra something or other,and told me he thought the hsu was more musical.
Good luck.


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## n2siast (Jun 30, 2008)

pitbull24 said:


> I am looking for help deciding between the SVS & HSU; sub will mostly be used for movie watching, but we do enjoy our music too. Never owned a product from either manufacturer, so feedback would be greatly appreciated.


It seems SVS always gets the nod on this forum; maybe because they're a sponsor. I think they are both very close in performance. HSU has an edge for music and SVS for movies.


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## lalakersfan34 (Oct 31, 2007)

jdeanmc said:


> Ive never heard anything but great things about svs subs.Although i have the Hsu Vtf Mk3 Ho and the mbm12 and im crazy about them.
> I removed the turbo and run in max output mode as im getting down to 12-15 hz without the turbo.
> The mk3 is a beast and the Hsu support is phenomenal(not that svs' support isnt)i cant say enough good about these subs,the guy i bought the subs from bought an svs 13 ultra something or other,and told me he thought the hsu was more musical.
> Good luck.


Wow, you're getting down in the 12-15hz range with the 3.3 in _max output mode???_ That's pretty impressive. I'd expect it to get down to 15hz or a little lower in _max extension_ mode, but to get that in max output mode is awesome! I think the 3.3 is tuned to somewhere in the 20-22hz range in max output mode, and it's almost unheard of to hear of a ported sub getting that much useable extension below its tuning point. My Epik Castle is tuned at 19hz and I'm flat to about 15hz in-room, but my room is only 11'x10'. You must have some amazing room gain in that room of yours :yes::yes::yes:. Enjoy the sub!


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## lalakersfan34 (Oct 31, 2007)

n2siast said:


> It seems SVS always gets the nod on this forum; maybe because they're a sponsor. I think they are both very close in performance. HSU has an edge for music and SVS for movies.


I think you're right about that to a degree. SVS does seem to be heavily favored here. Some other forums have a bit more of a balance.

I can say that I do know from experience that the reputation SVS has is well-deserved. My experiences with them have been nothing but stellar.

OTOH, I've heard many similar comments from Hsu owners. I really should give their products a listen sometime. I live only about 30 minutes from their facilities, and listening to their lineup would allow me to give better recommendations to prospective buyers.


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## bac4822 (Jun 19, 2007)

lakersfan34, I always wondered why you hadn't tried Hsu subs. My first real sub was an STF-2. Took five days to get to the suburbs of Cleveland, OH where I live. Wasn't enough sub for me so I returned it. Thought about getting a 3.3, but then started thinking about the expense of returning it if I didn't like it. The time to get parts if it broke also became a concern. Hsu's service was great. They even let me return a sub cable I got from them that was too short for me along with the STF-2. So that's why I ended up buying from SVS which is about an hour's drive from me. Most of the time, I drove there to pick up my order and save on shipping. And if I needed replacment parts, I could also drive there to pick them up. SVS's service is as impressive as Hsu's, but if I lived in Southern California, I'd definitely buy Hsu.


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## dachness (Feb 17, 2009)

I was wondering if any one looking at these subs considered going DIY? If so what DIY did you look at?

While I originally thought I would go with a PB12-NSD the shipping to Hawaii brings the price to around $725. If I go DIY I could do a Mae-X sealed with a EP2500 for $825. Now this wouldn't the the case for you since shipping is only like $60 but I would be interested in knowing if you looked at any DIY setups.

Daniel


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## lalakersfan34 (Oct 31, 2007)

bac4822 said:


> lakersfan34, I always wondered why you hadn't tried Hsu subs. My first real sub was an STF-2. Took five days to get to the Cleveland, OH area where I live. Wasn't enough sub for me so I returned it. Thought about getting a 3.3, but then started thinking about the expense of returning it if I didn't like it. The time to get parts if it broke also became a concern. Hsu's service was great. They even let me return a sub cable I got from them that was too short for me along with the STF-2. So that's why I ended up buying from SVS which is (or was since I heard they're moving) about an hour's drive from me. Most of the time, I drove there to pick up my order and save on shipping. And if I needed replacment parts, I could also drive there to pick them up. SVS's service is as impressive as Hsu's, but if I lived in Southern California, I'd definitely buy Hsu.


I'm not sure why I went SVS to be honest. Maybe it's due to them having a bit more hype over the last couple of years. I also don't remember if I knew Hsu was so close to me at the time I purchased the SVS subs. I can say I don't have a single negative thing to say about my experience with SVS and I can and do recommend them quite often. At some point I need to pay Hsu a visit and give their lineup a good listen. For now, I'm ecstatic with my Epik Castle - the things it can do in my <1000 cubic foot sealed room are pretty amazing :bigsmile:. 

BTW, you said you've always wondered why I didn't go Hsu. Are you on any other forums under a different name? Just curious how you knew about me already because your screen name isn't ringing a bell to me :doh: :dontknow:


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## bac4822 (Jun 19, 2007)

No, lakersfan34, I'm not a member of any other forums under a different name, but I do read your posts on that other forum that shall not be mentioned. In post 21 of this thread, you said:

"OTOH, I've heard many similar comments from Hsu owners. I really should give their products a listen sometime. I live only about 30 minutes from their facilities, and listening to their lineup would allow me to give better recommendations to prospective buyers."

From your post, I assumed you'd never heard Hsu products, hence you had never owned them.


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## jdeanmc (Aug 26, 2008)

lalakersfan34 said:


> Wow, you're getting down in the 12-15hz range with the 3.3 in _max output mode???_ That's pretty impressive. I'd expect it to get down to 15hz or a little lower in _max extension_ mode, but to get that in max output mode is awesome! I think the 3.3 is tuned to somewhere in the 20-22hz range in max output mode, and it's almost unheard of to hear of a ported sub getting that much useable extension below its tuning point. My Epik Castle is tuned at 19hz and I'm flat to about 15hz in-room, but my room is only 11'x10'. You must have some amazing room gain in that room of yours :yes::yes::yes:. Enjoy the sub!


I guess i got lucky in one aspect at least(room gain)i would love to run the turbo and max ext.mode but it just seems to excite my room too much,i cant seem to eq enough to get the response very smooth,as is i still have to eg 20.25 hz down -13 db!!


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## RossK (Feb 3, 2010)

Hi Folks,

This is my first post, but I seem to end up here seeking info often. I have an SVS PC12-NSD sub and a HSU STF-1.

What I have found is the SVS seems to be lacking in the upper-bass region. There is a noticeable hole between the upper bass of the SVS and the lower bass of the Ascend 200SE that I am using as a center. This hole disappears when I replace it with an Ascend CMT-340 SE center. It doesn't matter whether the crossover is set at 80hz, or even 120 hz. It has a very strong bottom end though. 

The HSU, which is tiny in comparison, fills in the upper-bass quite nicely and still has a surprisingly good lower end. I would recommend the HSU if you are using a smaller front stage. If you are using a larger front stage (ie., towers), then either should be fine.

FWIW, my next sub will be the HSU mentioned in the title.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Have you tried moving the sub around your room? The position in your room may be accentuating certain frequencies. Have you done any acoustic treatments or EQ?


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

I think the lower end models of the SVS (that I've experienced) didn't quite have the musical mid range compared to the Hsu subs. When you go up to the Ultra series, the SVS beats any of the Hsu subs in spades, though.

Definitely try different room placements for the sub though because it could drastically change your mind, too. Also, if you are looking into getting one of the best subs on the market, the Ultra series is one of the cheapest (relatively) solutions and one of the best!


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## RossK (Feb 3, 2010)

That would definitely explain it. I did try different locations, but not any types of treatments. I've thought about the Ultra also, but I live in Ohio, so tax is an issue.


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