# First Home theater help needed



## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

Hi,

I am planning to set up my first ever home theater in my game room. The room dimensions are 14'6" deep and 18'6" wide. 14'6" is the wall to wall distance where the projector and screen will be set up. The lighting is not controlled as I don't want to change this room into a HT for good. I will be covering the windows with a long dark color curtains and the walls will remain with the same color (white). My budget is around $3000-$4000 and this is what i have in mind. The primary purpose of the room is to view movies and sports.

Projector - Epson 8350 ($1200)
Screen - Carada BW 100" ($800)
Receiver - Denon 1913 ($400, purchased)
Speakers - Anys suggestion for good in-wall speakers (on-wall is better than in-wall?) 
Subwoofer- Velodyne Impact 10 ($399)

Can you guys please shed some light on Epson 8350 and Carada BW screen combination? Should I consider Epson 3010? Are there any better screens than Carada in the same price range? I would like to narrow down the projector and screen first and go from there.

I really appreciate your inputs.

Thanks,
Invasion


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## jgourlie (Jun 16, 2012)

I would suggest a diy screen and then you can put that budget towards better speakers...I have had 2 theaters now and I have painted both my screen's and have also help my father-in-law paint a screen and nobody has ever said that's a bad picture on any of them....you can check out my build thread to see if a diy screen will work for you.

I also had about the same budget that you did and I ended up spending $1500 for my 5.1 system $1000 for the energy speakers and $500 on my outlaw sub which sounds great with my denon avr.

hope that helps??


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

invasion said:


> Speakers - Anys suggestion for good in-wall speakers (on-wall is better than in-wall?)
> Subwoofer- Velodyne Impact 10 ($399)


Rarely will anyone use in-walls unless they absolutely have no choice. They're difficult to aim, even more difficult to tune properly and generally have poor sound quality (when directly compared to bookshelf or tower speakers). On-walls would be better then in-walls.

You will probably outgrow that Impact 10 well before the warranty is up. That's really not sufficient for a room the size of yours. You should probably be thinking dual 12's or a single 15 as a start.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree with Jason - if you are willing to go the DIY route, you can make a beautiful screen for probably about 1/4 the cost. I just finished doing mine, and it was really striaghtforward and easy. Bill, Mech, and Harp have done a great job providing all the visuals and info needed. I also posted a few pics of mine in my build thread if you want to check it out as well as some detail on the build.

As far as speakers, do you have the option to do towers or bookshelf w/stands? 

For the sub, I second what Jim said - if you go the DIY screen route, put a little of that savings here and go with a different sub. Jim and Dale have reviewed a slew of them and can definitely give much better advice than I on what would work best.


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## tpcurrie (Nov 27, 2012)

Home Theater Magazine has a Buyers Guide that can give you information to read. Not just prices, but reviews. If you haven't seen this type of material, I would suggest reading between the lines, finding gear in your price range, going to listen to it somewhere, asking people here if they have any of it for honest answers, and keeping in mind, the reviewers are much more picky than you ever will be when they nitpick.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Here are some thoughts to add...

For projectors, read projectorreviews.com and projectorcentral.com. Projector Reviews has a buying guide separated out by price category. That would be a great place to get specific reviewer info on a projector model.

Good suggestions for going DiY on the screen because of the ability to turn around and put that money into a sub or speakers. However... ... If you want to go with Carada, that's a also a good move. Great company and solid screens and great prices. No gimmicks with this company. If you end up buying from them, give them a call and ask them which screen (CW vs BW) you should go with. Also, check the review for the projector you're going with on projectorreviews.com... He often gives screen suggestions in his reviews.

You'll get great customer service from Carada... Pretty much a guarantee.

As for the room, I have a few comments (take them for what they are worth... obviously, I don't know your room layout, but these are just a few thoughts...):

1) Having the ability to control light is one of the ingredients to getting a great projected image on your big screen. Try your best to help yourself out in this department. I'm guessing your lighting is in your ceiling? If so, add a dimmer switch if you don't already have one. It's cheap and easy to do and will give you some control over the lights. You'll want that ability.

2) I would strongly encourage you to change your wall and ceiling colors. You are putting $ and effort into buying all of this gear... I would definitely consider helping out your walls. Flat paints are what you ultimately should aim for. Colors along the gray scale are optimal - the darker the better.... Second best will be darker browns. Give it consideration.:bigsmile: Obviously, the ultimate scenario is to have black walls... but there are many factors in these room designs (including acceptable wall colors from an aesthetic viewpoint). We've all dealt with those to varying degrees... but, in this case, anything would be better than white.

3) Is there any chance you might consider changing the orientation of the set-up in your room? If you project the image across the shortest width (14 feet) that means that your seating is going to be either too close to a 100" screen OR is going to be backed up against the rear wall (which isn't great from a sound perspective). Projecting the image across the 18ft section of your room would be more optimal. It will allow you to obtain the proper seating distance (you'll have to look up a distance chart, but I'm guessing your seating needs to be about 12-13 ft from a 100" screen) without having your seating jammed up against the rear wall. Secondarily, this gives you a bit more wiggle room for your front speakers (if you decide not to go in-wall)

4) As for speakers. I agree that going in wall is the least optimal. You can do it tho, for sure! If you look in the speaker section of this site, you'll find a few in-wall (and on-wall) discussion threads... I just started one for a buddy who is looking to go in-wall. By my calculations, you have between $600 and $1600 to spend on speakers... you'll also want to budget cables/wires (which you can buy reliably and inexpensively from monoprice.com).... there are a ton of options for free standing speakers. Definitely don't skimp on your sub... that leads me to a package deal from HSU Research... the Hybrid 2 - 5.1 Package in Satin Black. Shipped it will come out to just a tad over $1400. You'll get a killer sub... and a set of 5 speakers that have garnered a lot of praise.

I'm a big fan of the Polk RTiA series - they power my home theater audio experience. This particular line has also received great reviews... widely considered to be a good bang for the buck speaker line with great sound and build quality for the coin. The RTiA speakers that would fall in your budget (RTiA 5's and below... along with the CSiA6 center) are easy to drive (91 dB sensitivity) and will get you awesome sound. Checkout their offerings for RTiA speakers on the polk audio ebay store. One downside to them... especially the center... is that they will take up some space. That HSU package above would take up less space.

Really, the speaker possibilities are endless... tons of good options that will fall in your budget.

Back to the sub, tho... this would be a great time to jump on one of the sub sales (HSU has their VTF2 and VTF3 models on sale... Empire has a heavy hitter on sale for $399)... 

Anyhow, good luck. You'll get a lot of varied (but EXCELLENT) opinions for folks who hang around the home theater shack... you picked a cool site to do some digging!:T


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## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

Thank you Jason, Jim and Joe. Very good inputs for me. I checkedout both of your DIY screens and they look really amazing. I need to do some more digging to see how much time I have to spend to build one say 100-106" diagonal. 

Coming back to the speakers, my game room is pre-wired to 3 front and 2 rear speakers. I hate to have the towers because I want to use this room as a game room when we are not watching movies/sports and would like to stay away/hide most of the hardware. Thats why I am inclined towards either on-wall or in-wall speakers. But looks like on-wall speakers are better than the in-wall. It might be a dumb questions, but is it possible to use the bookshelf speakers placed in shelfs made on the wall? 

Any suggestions on the projector for my room size with ambient light around and 100-106" screen?

I greatly appreciate your responses.

-Invasion


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## tpcurrie (Nov 27, 2012)

Bookshelf speakers can be great on a shelf or in a bookshelf. Many have ports for bass extension so look for those that ship with foam "bungs" to seal the ports if they are in the rear. My Monitor Audio speakers sound awesome in the bookshelf, ports sealed of course. 

The HSU package mentioned is highly regarded, and you might investigate Pioneer's Andrew Jones line that you can hear at Best Buy and buy there or from Parts Express.com. RAVE reviews from some very picky folks at Stereophile and Home Theater Mags, and very very inexpensive, leaving you room for the bigger HSU or Epik subs (they dont rave about the Pioneer sub).


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

invasion said:


> Thank you Jason, Jim and Joe. Very good inputs for me. I checkedout both of your DIY screens and they look really amazing. I need to do some more digging to see how much time I have to spend to build one say 100-106" diagonal.
> 
> Coming back to the speakers, my game room is pre-wired to 3 front and 2 rear speakers. I hate to have the towers because I want to use this room as a game room when we are not watching movies/sports and would like to stay away/hide most of the hardware. Thats why I am inclined towards either on-wall or in-wall speakers. But looks like on-wall speakers are better than the in-wall. It might be a dumb questions, but is it possible to use the bookshelf speakers placed in shelfs made on the wall?
> 
> ...


you could look at Axiom's on-wall speakers... also, there are plenty of mounts that you can buy to hold bookshelf speakers (your bookshelf idea will work also). The only downside to a shelf or mount is that the speakers maybe be a tad too close to the wall to sound their best. I guess it depends on how far away from the wall you can get them...


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## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

Thank you very much for your detailed feeback Todd. I will try to post my room layout here....



27dnast said:


> 1) Having the ability to control light is one of the ingredients to getting a great projected image on your big screen. Try your best to help yourself out in this department. I'm guessing your lighting is in your ceiling? If so, add a dimmer switch if you don't already have one. It's cheap and easy to do and will give you some control over the lights. You'll want that ability.


 The sealing is not flat all the way. It is flat in the middle and tapers out to the sides along the longest wall. 10' sealing in the center and it tapers down to 7'. There are not lights in the ceiling but a fan/light combo as you see in most of the living/bedrooms. I think I can still incorporate the dimming featuer on it.




27dnast said:


> 2) I would strongly encourage you to change your wall and ceiling colors. You are putting $ and effort into buying all of this gear... I would definitely consider helping out your walls. Flat paints are what you ultimately should aim for. Colors along the gray scale are optimal - the darker the better.... Second best will be darker browns. Give it consideration.:bigsmile: Obviously, the ultimate scenario is to have black walls... but there are many factors in these room designs (including acceptable wall colors from an aesthetic viewpoint). We've all dealt with those to varying degrees... but, in this case, anything would be better than white.


 I am planning to cover the 14'6" walls with a dark color curtain and might be able to change the 18'6" wall colors to gray or something darker than white but not super dark.



27dnast said:


> 3) Is there any chance you might consider changing the orientation of the set-up in your room? If you project the image across the shortest width (14 feet) that means that your seating is going to be either too close to a 100" screen OR is going to be backed up against the rear wall (which isn't great from a sound perspective). Projecting the image across the 18ft section of your room would be more optimal. It will allow you to obtain the proper seating distance (you'll have to look up a distance chart, but I'm guessing your seating needs to be about 12-13 ft from a 100" screen) without having your seating jammed up against the rear wall. Secondarily, this gives you a bit more wiggle room for your front speakers (if you decide not to go in-wall)


 This is a tough sell for me. In order to do that, I have to close the window permanently which we don't want to do as we still want to use it as a game room whenever we are not watching the movies. You are right, the viewing distance might probably around 12'. Do you think 100" screen will be too big?



27dnast said:


> 4) As for speakers. I agree that going in wall is the least optimal. You can do it tho, for sure! If you look in the speaker section of this site, you'll find a few in-wall (and on-wall) discussion threads... I just started one for a buddy who is looking to go in-wall. By my calculations, you have between $600 and $1600 to spend on speakers... you'll also want to budget cables/wires (which you can buy reliably and inexpensively from monoprice.com).... there are a ton of options for free standing speakers. Definitely don't skimp on your sub... that leads me to a package deal from HSU Research... the Hybrid 2 - 5.1 Package in Satin Black. Shipped it will come out to just a tad over $1400. You'll get a killer sub... and a set of 5 speakers that have garnered a lot of praise.
> 
> I'm a big fan of the Polk RTiA series - they power my home theater audio experience. This particular line has also received great reviews... widely considered to be a good bang for the buck speaker line with great sound and build quality for the coin. The RTiA speakers that would fall in your budget (RTiA 5's and below... along with the CSiA6 center) are easy to drive (91 dB sensitivity) and will get you awesome sound. Checkout their offerings for RTiA speakers on the polk audio ebay store. One downside to them... especially the center... is that they will take up some space. That HSU package above would take up less space.
> 
> ...


 I need to find a way to mount the book shelf speakers in my room. I definately wouldn't want towers because they take up space. May be I can mount the book shelf speakers on bracket close to the pre-wired locations. Is this a good idea you think?


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## tpcurrie (Nov 27, 2012)

If you are handy, and wood works in your room, it is really easy to make sturdy shelves that look nice. Home depot has nice wood corner shelf brackets, a smallish piece of oak or walnut, and some wood chair rail for the edges. Stain or paint to match the room, the chair rail flush on the bottom of the shelf makes a nice lip on top of the shelf.... easy peasy.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

_*This is a tough sell for me. In order to do that, I have to close the window permanently which we don't want to do as we still want to use it as a game room whenever we are not watching the movies. You are right, the viewing distance might probably around 12'. Do you think 100" screen will be too big?
*_

Hmm... I see your point. One think you could do is invest in a drop-down tension screen. But that would be a lot more $$, I believe. 100" might be pushing the viewing distance just a tad. I have a 96" 2.40:1 screen (about 8 feet wide). The seating is 11 ft. away from it. Size-wise, it's great... especially 2.40:1 movies.

Others may have an opinion on this, but I would definitely shoot for optimal sizes on those viewing distance charts while allowing myself to keep the seating about 2 feet from the rear wall.

*I need to find a way to mount the book shelf speakers in my room. I definately wouldn't want towers because they take up space. May be I can mount the book shelf speakers on bracket close to the pre-wired locations. Is this a good idea you think?*

Yeah, I think that's going to be fine. You can find mounts that can hold up to about 20lbs if affixed to the wall properly. You may want to look at bookshelf speakers that have their port on the front of the speaker (because the mounts will keep the speaker pretty close to the wall). The RTiA bookshelf speakers (the RTiA3) have a port dispersion feature that Polk claims will allow you to have the port closer to a wall... although both of the professional reviews I read for RTiA speakers noted that the speakers opened up more when further from a wall... but that is probably true of most speakers).

Check out the picture of the on-wall speakers Dale posted in this thread. Not sure how much they cost..
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-speakers/63532-anyone-heard-these-wall-speakers-have-suggestion.html#axzz2DeVHj9ox


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

invasion said:


> I need to find a way to mount the book shelf speakers in my room. I definately wouldn't want towers because they take up space. May be I can mount the book shelf speakers on bracket close to the pre-wired locations. Is this a good idea you think?


This thing about in-wall speakers not being good is subjective > good in-wall speakers
can sound real good, and are designed to use the wall as a baffle, and they also tend to
be closed-in (sealed in the back), and can be expensive. > However, their are also some 
decent ones more on the budget friendly side, and not closed-in. > It all comes down to 
good design and engineering.

You can mount a lot of bookshelf speakers, with this popular PinPoint mount
http://www.performanceaudio.com/buy/Pinpoint_Mounts/AM40/25538?gclid=CJON0uCo9bMCFYKPPAodTxkAYw

Recommendation for speakers, depend on a true speaker budget.


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## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

zieglj01 said:


> Recommendation for speakers, depend on a true speaker budget.


That's an interesting point.... I already have the Denon AVR-1913 receiver so I am planning on spending around $1500 and $2000 tops for the speakers, surround and sub. Any suggestions for good in-wall speakers that will have sufficient power for a 14'6" x 18'6" room? The problem with wall mounting the book shelf speakers in my case is, the wall where I will mount the screen is 7' tall and tapers to meet the 10' ceiling. Mounting the center speaker would be challenging as I might end up using the 7' for the screen and I have to mount the speaker on the inclined surface of the ceiling. 

If I am going for in-wall speakers, can I mount the center speaker behind the screen? Has anyone have experience with such arrangement?

I appreciate the feedback.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

invasion said:


> That's an interesting point.... I already have the Denon AVR-1913 receiver so I am planning on spending around $1500 and $2000 tops for the speakers, surround and sub. Any suggestions for good in-wall speakers that will have sufficient power for a 14'6" x 18'6" room? The problem with wall mounting the book shelf speakers in my case is, the wall where I will mount the screen is 7' tall and tapers to meet the 10' ceiling. Mounting the center speaker would be challenging as I might end up using the 7' for the screen and I have to mount the speaker on the inclined surface of the ceiling.
> 
> If I am going for in-wall speakers, can I mount the center speaker behind the screen? Has anyone have experience with such arrangement?
> 
> I appreciate the feedback.


You can mount the speaker behind the screen, if you use an acoustically transparent screen

Some recommendations for speakers, if going in-wall
Mordaunt Short
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...1-6-in-Inwall-Speaker-White-Each/1.html#!more

Klipsch
http://www.crutchfield.com/p_714R36W/Klipsch-R-3650-W.html?tp=192

If you had a higher budget > with a better receiver/amp
Boston
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-5835-3-Way-8-LCR-In-Wall-Speaker-Each/1.html

Now if you had a cabinet or false wall, the Boston BT1 speakers would be nice
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...TON-ACOUSTICS-BT1-LCR-Loudspeaker-Each/1.html

Look for subs from the likes of HSU, SVS, Rythmik and PowerSound Audio

HSU
http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-3mk4.html


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## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

zieglj01 said:


> If you had a higher budget > with a better receiver/amp
> Boston
> http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-5835-3-Way-8-LCR-In-Wall-Speaker-Each/1.html


What is your take on buying the refurbished speakers? I obviously want a good sound quality in my hometheater but I understand that I won't be able to get that with $1000-$1500 range. I am planning to add little more to my budget for speakers. I might stretch to get above speakers (refurbished) or any suggestions for a $2500 budget for speakers n sub? As I mentioned I have a Denon AVR-1912. Will this be good enough for the speakers I might get with that budget?

I narrowed down on the projector to Epson8350 and screen to 100" Carada BW. The speakers is the toughest part as there are so many options...onder:

I greatly appreciate your suggestions.

- Invasion


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

invasion said:


> What is your take on buying the refurbished speakers? I obviously want a good sound quality in my hometheater but I understand that I won't be able to get that with $1000-$1500 range. I am planning to add little more to my budget for speakers. I might stretch to get above speakers (refurbished) or any suggestions for a $2500 budget for speakers n sub? As I mentioned I have a Denon AVR-1912. Will this be good enough for the speakers I might get with that budget?
> 
> I narrowed down on the projector to Epson8350 and screen to 100" Carada BW. The speakers is the toughest part as there are so many options...onder:
> 
> ...


A lot of times refurbish speakers are returns - they still need to be checked out,
and they can not sell them brand new. In general, speakers hold up well.

I still like something like the HSU VTF-3 subwoofer

The Boston speakers are 4 ohm nominal, and will put pressure on your Denon receiver.

Take a look at Monitor Audio
http://www.soundadvice.com/Monitor-Audio-In-Wall-Speaker-W280-Priced-Each-P1370.aspx


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## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

After thinking about speakers for a while and listening to all your inputs, I am thinking to go with bookshelf/wall mount type. Here is what I have in mind. Martin Logan motion4 ( FL and FR), Martin Logan motion6 ( center), Martin Logan motion 2 (RL and RR) and Dynamo 500. These will be hooked up to Denon 1913.

I am going with Epson 8350 and Carada 106" BW screen.

Can you guys please shed some light on the speakers, sub and receiver combination?

Thanks in advance...


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

invasion said:


> After thinking about speakers for a while and listening to all your inputs, I am thinking to go with bookshelf/wall mount type. Here is what I have in mind. Martin Logan motion4 ( FL and FR), Martin Logan motion6 ( center), Martin Logan motion 2 (RL and RR) and Dynamo 500. These will be hooked up to Denon 1913.
> 
> Can you guys please shed some light on the speakers, sub and receiver combination?


Would not be my first choice - however, they may work for you.


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## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

zieglj01 said:


> Would not be my first choice - however, they may work for you.


Any other recommendations in that range then?

Thanks in advance.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

invasion said:


> Any other recommendations in that range then?


Look at HTD Level Three
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers/Level-THREE-Bookshelf-Speakers
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers/Level-THREE-Center-Channel-Speaker

HTD Level Two bookshelf for surrounds
http://www.htd.com/Products/level-two-speakers/Level-TWO-Bookshelf-Speakers

HTD Brackets
http://www.htd.com/Products/Wall-Mount-Speaker-Brackets/BR1-Heavy-Duty-Brackets

That should leave room for the HSU VTF-3 or VTF-2 subwoofer

If budget is real tight, then Cadence CSX12 subwoofer
http://www.cadencesound.com/products/CSX12-Mark-II.html


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

EMP also has some on-wall speakers
http://www.emptek.com/ew30.php


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## invasion (Nov 29, 2012)

zieglj01 said:


> Look at HTD Level Three
> http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers/Level-THREE-Bookshelf-Speakers
> http://www.htd.com/Products/level-three-speakers/Level-THREE-Center-Channel-Speaker
> 
> ...


I couldn't find them in any stores for audition. Can you please suggest me if these are available at retail stores? What do you think about Definitive Technology 100 5.1 speaker package? My budget is around $1500-$2000 max.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

invasion said:


> I couldn't find them in any stores for audition. Can you please suggest me if these are available at retail stores? What do you think about Definitive Technology 100 5.1 speaker package? My budget is around $1500-$2000 max.


HTD is a ID company - that is one reason why the prices are good. You can always
test them in home >> and in most cases if you do not like them, HTD will also pay
for return shipping.

You must be talking about the Definitive ProCinema 1000, their satellite speakers
will roll off early in the bass and can be somewhat limited for overall response. >
Also, there sub is somewhat limited. MY preference is for HTD over them. 

A good sub that can cross over nicely with your front speakers, can make an over
all difference for movies and music.

It all comes down to your preference.


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