# Help with sound Surround sound upgrades and setup



## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

Hello everyone,

I'm new to the forum and I would like to get some help/suggestions from you guys.

I currently have a 7.1 Yamaha HTR reciever with the option for "presence" speakers (I forget the model - HTR something, but it was one of the last before HDMI came out) it is rated at 135watts/channel. I'm using the pioneer Andrew Jones speakers, front towers, center and 4 bookshelf speakers for the surround channels. I'm really happy with the sound for now (I have plans for a dedicated theater in my basement this summer and things will change then) but I would really like to have HDMI switching and 3D pass through. I just bought my first house so I am on a tight budget for now. I would like to eventually switch to separate pre/pro and amp to go with my speaker upgrade this summer. My question is, would it be worth getting a 7 or 9 channel pre/pro now with HDMI and 3D pass-though, using my Yamaha as the amp, over replacing it all together until I can afford an amp(s) to power future speakers? If so, what would you guys recommend new or used for a decent pre/pro with the necessary features. 

I am also looking to replace an old 720P 2k lumen (i suspect less in reality) projector with a 1080p 3D unit. this may wait until the theater is done, but if not it will have to contend with some ambient light. would you guys recommend I choose a projector with a contrast ration of maybe 40K:1 and 3K lumens to fight the ambient light or wait until I have total darkness in the theater and get something with better contrast and less light output?

Third question. I recently picked up a Sound Physics Labs B-Deap-32 tapped horn Subwoofer for a stellar price. I'm working on getting a Krown K2 amp to power it and possibly a QSC DSP 30 sound processor from the original owner of the sub. My concern is that in playing with my reciever's LFE settings it seems like there is a chance that it will only output down to 35Hz? can anyone confirm this? The sub is a monster and capable (with corner loading) of playing down to around 20Hz with little distortion (so I hear) so this would be a major downside to keeping the Yammy as the processor. I was thinking I didn't need the QSC he was offering, save a little money there, but if my receiver only goes down to 35Hz, would I have to run the DSP inline before the Yamaha to get the lower signal output?

Sorry for the giant post, just trying to get all the advice I can. Thanks

Ben


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

If I was in your situation new house/ tight budget I would save the money unless I tripped over a great deal new or used just demo anything used to make sure it operates properly. Not sure if your house is new or not but if not things happen,then you may have to sell stuff at a loss to fix a roof or replace a washer or the like. I'm sure others will chime in with more great advice for your other questions. Good luck looking forward to your pending build.


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for the advice, i do have money aside for unexpected expenses just in case. There's always something that comes up despite our best efforts. I will most likely be purchasing most equipment used unless, like you said, i fall onto a great deal. That's sort of where I'm at with this monster sub. It's totally overkill for anything but a serious theater setup, but i couldn't pass up the deal. The electronics to go along with it will cost several times what the sub cost but one piece at a time.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

If you really have the upgrade bug and want a new AVR with HDMI then I would go with an AVR with pre-amp out. You'll be able to get more power later if you want. 

If you like Yamaha then RX-A830 or higher will have pre-amp out (double check pre-out doesn't start at a1030)


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestion, The A830 was the AVR i was looking at unless I find a great deal on a higher powered model or the 9 channel model (i think the 1030 is 9.2 if I remember right).

This still leads me back to my question regarding the LFE output on mine or the RX-A line AVRs. Will they be able to output low enough frequencies to get down to the lower limit of my sub? If so, would it still be worth picking up the DSP 30 when I pick up the amp? I am concerned that the equalization on the LFE would be inadequate, at least with my current AVR, to keep the sub in check. When I run the room correction on my current AVR it doesn't seem to do much, if anything, in terms of testing or equalizing my current sub. It just checks size and thumps a couple times at the same frequency (at least that I can hear). I'm not sure its really doing much besides adjusting the output level to match the rest of the system.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Yes. Just because you don't have an EQ band below 35Hz doesn't mean it won't play down to 20Hz.


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Sprayed8 said:


> Thanks for the suggestion, The A830 was the AVR i was looking at unless I find a great deal on a higher powered model or the 9 channel model (i think the 1030 is 9.2 if I remember right).
> 
> This still leads me back to my question regarding the LFE output on mine or the RX-A line AVRs. Will they be able to output low enough frequencies to get down to the lower limit of my sub? If so, would it still be worth picking up the DSP 30 when I pick up the amp? I am concerned that the equalization on the LFE would be inadequate, at least with my current AVR, to keep the sub in check. When I run the room correction on my current AVR it doesn't seem to do much, if anything, in terms of testing or equalizing my current sub. It just checks size and thumps a couple times at the same frequency (at least that I can hear). I'm not sure its really doing much besides adjusting the output level to match the rest of the system.


The receiver has really nothing to do with how low the sub can go. The receiver basically provides a crossover, level matching, and sometimes equalization between your speakers and the LFE channel (subwoofer). Your receiver uses YPAO for equalization. If it were me I'd use the dsp30 - apply my eq to that - and then make my measurements with YPAO. The DSP 30 is basically a DSP (peq-crossover) unit for the subwoofer - and it will do a more detailed job of eqing your sub. If you're going to use the DSP 30 you will need a calibration mic, a PC, and REW. 

Overall, if the sub was designed to go down to 20hz when properly powered - it will get down there. The line outs are fine on the Yammie's - they're just passing the signal - and yes they can pass signals below 20 hz.


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

Thank you, so I should be able to get full output without picking up the sound processor, I just wont be able to fully equalize it, correct?


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Sprayed8 said:


> Thank you, so I should be able to get full output without picking up the sound processor, I just wont be able to fully equalize it, correct?


Basically. YPAO will equalize it for you - but may be not as well as it could have been done manually with REW and the DSP 30. You should be able to get full output without processor. 

From my understanding - Horns must be very large to go very low. Most professional bass horns that I've seen tend to not go lower than maybe 30hz. However - what they lack in the lowest registers - they make up for in sheer SPL. They will play that 30hz louder than anything else.


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

Excellent! sorry for the redundant question prerich, My phone went a-wall and didn't show me your first post. If I do get the DSP 30, can I use the mic for my AVR or do I need an additional dedicated mic. Also, I assume REW is the calibration software? Is this free, expensive? 

"If it were me I'd use the dsp30 - apply my eq to that - and then make my measurements with YPAO."

can you elaborate on this?

"From my understanding - Horns must be very large to go very low. Most professional bass horns that I've seen tend to not go lower than maybe 30hz. However - what they lack in the lowest registers - they make up for in sheer SPL. They will play that 30hz louder than anything else."


I'm not sure if anyone is familiar with this specific sub, but it is large overall (not so much so for a folded horn though) at 18" x 42" x 42". What makes this one different is that is is designed to go into the corner of a room and use the walls and floor as boundaries to increase the effective "horn" size. it is rated at 32Hz in open air, but depending on loading and room gain, it is capable of going lower especially with stiffer walls. that being said, your right. It has 2 12" drivers and is rated at 1600W continuous, worst case scenario I get a really powerful 30Hz which is still going to be really cool :bigsmile:


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## Sprayed8 (Jan 16, 2014)

I just noticed that REW is "room equalization wizard" and is available for free on here :doh:

Can I use my calibration mic from my AVR?


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## prerich (Mar 26, 2008)

Sprayed8 said:


> I just noticed that REW is "room equalization wizard" and is available for free on here :doh: Can I use my calibration mic from my AVR?


No, the mic with the Yamaha is especially calibrated for YPAO specifically. I've had good success with the Dayton UMM-6!

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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