# First time, some help needed



## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

Hello,

I did the setup for the mic and the sound card. I then ran my sub only at 80hz and here is my first try. Can you tell me how this looks and what needs to be done?

Thanks Rick


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Please re-scale your graph for a 15-200 Hz horizontal and 45-105 dB vertical axis. You can do that by clicking on the "Graph Limits" icon in the upper right corner.

Regards,
Wayne


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

how about this?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

You're going to have to move your sub around the room a bit to try and smooth that response out. It doesn't look too good where it is. 

brucek


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Yeah, I'd call that response "unequalizable" - so bad even an EQ can't fix it. Typically you want response to be in about a 15 dB window between the worst peaks and dips. You have nearly twice that...

Regards,
Wayne


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

This is showing two tempest X subs. I don't have the ability to move the subs as they are built into my front walls. There is one sub on each side of the front stage. Should I run them seperate and see how they look?


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

OK I ran a few test this morning running both subs at different Hz levels and in different phases. Here is the best that I could come up with. Two subs at 100hz reverse phase. Both subs are being driven by a Europower EP2500 amp so not sure if I can do anything with the amp to help change this. Give me some feedback please. Also here is a pic of the front of my room so you can see that I am not able to move the subs.

Thanks Rick


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Give me some feedback please


One of the best things for in wall IB mounts is to first check out the locations acoustically.

That is not a good response. It is not equalizable in my opinion.

Try one IB at a time and see if either is the culprit, or is it only when they play together that the trouble begins.

brucek


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

OK I ran each sub seprate at 100hz in both normal and reverse pahse. Here is the results


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

Here is a breakdown using 100HZ

Red = Speaker only at 100hz

Green = Sub only at 100hz phase reverse

Blue = Both sub and speakers at 100hz


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

A few points.

Changing phase on a speaker when it's playing alone is like asking what the sound of one hand clapping is..... it's absolutely meaningless. Phase only has an effect when *two* speakers are playing together. It is their phase relative to the other that creates cancellations or reinforcements.



> Here is a breakdown using 100HZ


I have no idea what this means? Can you explain this statement?

brucek


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

What do you mean by "at 100 Hz" and "using 100 Hz?"

Regards,
Wayne


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

I set my receiver at cross over point of 100Hz and did the test above using just my subs, just my speakers and then the combination off both speaker and subs and that was the results that I had obtained


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

rick12667 said:


> Also here is a pic of the front of my room...


Did you forget to attach this? I'd like to see it. Hopefully it will show the main speakers as well as the IB. The reason I'm asking, it's pretty strange that your main speakers have virtually the same response as the IB...

Regards,
Wayne


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> it's pretty strange that your main speakers have virtually the same response as the IB...


Wayne, you're taking the questions out of my mouth..............


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

Here are a few pics. One of the front of the room and the second with the covers off showing the main front speaker and sub. This is the right side of the room and the left is the same way.

Rick


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

I ran it one more time just to make sure and here it is. Same settings as before at 100Hz


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Well, something's not right. Those drivers in the main speakers look to be something like 6-1/2" or 8". It's physically impossible for them to get high output all the way down to 15 Hz. At least not four of them... 

Good looking room... :T

Regards,
Wayne


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Aesthetically it is lovely. But you couldn't have chosen a worse method for mounting both the sub and mains than you have I'm afraid. Speakers need room to operate. They need space between them and the surrounding walls. There is very little that can be done to correct your response without some major reworking, in my opinion.

brucek


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

Ok I double checked my setting for my receiver to make sure my mains were set correctly and ran it again. The main speakers are 8" drivers and here is the results again.

Blue = Speaker
Green = Both
Red = Sub

Knowing that I can't move the speakers and subs what changes can I do with what I currently have? My main concern is the subs. In additon I am able to change the following for each main front speaker. Would this help out at all to make some changes on my main speakers? Also being that I am new to this what am I looking at in regards to what would be called a good curve in regards to the subs, mains and combination?


This is what I can adjust on my mains

Freq
Q
Band


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Are you aiming the mic towards the ceiling or is it sitting on that wood like in the photo? It needs to aim up at the seating location.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I am new to this what am I looking at in regards to what would be called a good curve in regards to the subs, mains and combination?


The graph below would be considered ideal.

The subwoofer response and the mains response (in blue) show how they combine at the crossover to produce the resultant red line after they mix.









brucek


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

the mic is as shown in the pic, facing towards the front of the room. Should it be facing up?


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

rick12667 said:


> the mic is as shown in the pic, facing towards the front of the room. Should it be facing up?


Yes. If you can, try wedging it between the two cushions on the couch, or prop it on something that is non reflective if the backs of the seats are much further away than where your ears will be. You could also get a mic tripod with an adjustable arm on it but those are not cheap. :spend: A regular tripod might work also, but it needs to stay steady.


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

here is a new reading for the subs with the mic up


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> the mic is as shown in the pic, facing towards the front of the room. Should it be facing up?


The Mic is a Radio Shack meter (from the pic), so it is directional, and need to be pointed toward the equipment at an angle.

brucek


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Looks like your subs are sitting in a dip relating to the modes in the room and are getting some gain possibly related to some unintential output from the enclosures or area around them.


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

Ok now I have a problem, when I went to run just my main speakers, like I did above for the subs, I am getting the same response for the speakers at every setting. 60, 90,100 and 110hz. What do I have wrong? The graph lines are coming out on top of each other


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

rick12667 said:


> Ok now I have a problem, when I went to run just my main speakers, like I did above for the subs, I am getting the same response for the speakers at every setting. 60, 90,100 and 110hz. What do I have wrong? The graph lines are coming out on top of each other


Is the mic set to 80?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

rick12667 said:


> the mic is as shown in the pic, facing towards the front of the room. Should it be facing up?


For plotting subwoofer response, it doesn't matter. Graphs generated either way will be virtually indistinguishable.

Do you have any per-frequency sine waves you can run? I still don't buy that those 8-inchers are really generating that kind of output at 15 Hz. Is there some other source possibly generating noise, like a furnace or something?

Regards,
Wayne


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

yep and I just put a new battery in it. I can run the sub setting and they work fine but as soon as I try to do the main speakers I get the same response. I think I have something set up wrong in my receiver,


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

room is dead quiet right now so I don't think there is anything causing the noise issue to make the mains that low


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## rick12667 (Feb 11, 2007)

I ran a test for sub only, speaker only and here are the results. What would you recommend my setting for my crossover be at in regards to my subs according to what you see with my mains? I know there is not much I can do but any little thing will help. By the way, thanks for all the help

Rick


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