# What kind of sound does Klipsch have?



## Mattamatikk (Jan 12, 2011)

Hello.

I currently have yamaha rx-v671 receiver and the HKTS 60 speaker pack, however i often feel voices sounds abit "closed in" (not while watching movies, but tv shows)...like the mid tones are to much. This wasent the case with my previous receiver, onkyo 608. 

I do want to upgrade my speaker system, and im considering Klipsch RF-42 II series. How would you say the sound is`? Bright? Mid heavy? Since the yamaha does have a much more mid heavy tone than the onkyo, i dont want speakers that are too heavy on the mids. Any sugestions?


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2011)

Have you run the YPAO sound optimization? IMO, Klipsch speakers sound a tad forward, but I like that for movies, just not music. Their horns sound much different then a dome tweeter. I think it's actually a dome horn loaded driver, but it still sounds different. If your going for movie and games, then I think they would be a good choice. Their efficiency allows all in one AVRs to play very loud, and their horns IMO bring out dialog and even over emphasize the top end a little. For accurate music reproduction, I personally don't think they deliver.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Mattamatikk said:


> Hello.
> 
> I currently have yamaha rx-v671 receiver and the HKTS 60 speaker pack, however i often feel voices sounds abit "closed in" (not while watching movies, but tv shows)...like the mid tones are to much. This wasent the case with my previous receiver, onkyo 608.
> 
> I do want to upgrade my speaker system, and im considering Klipsch RF-42 II series. How would you say the sound is`? Bright? Mid heavy? Since the yamaha does have a much more mid heavy tone than the onkyo, i dont want speakers that are too heavy on the mids. Any sugestions?


Hello,
The RF-42's are really in a different class than a Speaker Package. As they are Horn Loaded, they do have somewhat of a distinctive sound. However, many love them and they are unbelievably efficient. This is especially important if planning on keeping your Yamaha for a good while as the RF-42's need little power to reach Reference Levels. All the same, you might want to audition the 42's before purchasing them.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Mattamatikk (Jan 12, 2011)

Yes i have run the YPAO, and i can see the receiver has an eq built in, however i dont have any knowledge of how to turn down the mids using it. The YPAO didnt really do much other than calibrating the levels and distance. I would sure like some speakers for both music and movies. The onkyo didnt sound good for music, abit thin and kinda bass heavy, but for movies and tv it was great. The yamaha sounds abit warmer wathing movies, but the dialog on most movies are good, however for tv...voices are abit muddy. The yamaha does sound great playing music though, much better then the onkyo.


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## Guest (Oct 22, 2011)

You could go demo them and take some of your favorite music. Many people love them for music. You might like the sound. They have gotten much better at their horns since the mid 90s. I listen to some newer ones a few years ago and they sound much less honky, but they are still horns and still sound "different".


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Mattamatikk said:


> Hello.
> 
> I currently have yamaha rx-v671 receiver and the HKTS 60 speaker pack, however i often feel voices sounds abit "closed in" (not while watching movies, but tv shows)...like the mid tones are to much. This wasent the case with my previous receiver, onkyo 608.


before we jump ahead to finding you a new set of speakers, i want to point out that harman speakers are by no means mid heavy. They have a balanced approach most of the time, and the ones that don't tend to recess the mids more than overemphasize them. It may be best to troubleshoot the current issue. 

Can you start by disconnecting your center speaker and setting everything up again as a 4.1 instead of a 5.1? I find "closed in" to be a common trait in center speakers, especially the MTM sort. I think what's happened is that your yamaha has much more robust amplifiers than the previous receiver, and now you're just hearing a more precise center image as a result, but that's not necessarily a good thing especially with TV shows that tend to be poorly mixed IMO. By removing the center channel from the equation you might be pleasantly surprised how much more natural the left/right mains project a sound across the TV. also make sure the tweeter is ear level.

The other thing I *strongly* suspect is happening, is that your onkyo's audyssey EQ was correcting any baffle step related issues in the harman speakers. The YPAO might not correct for that. To find out if this is the case, take your speakers and move them as close to against the wall behind them as you can. Does this "fill" the lower midrange and bass so that it sounds less "shouty"? If this is the case, what you need to do is, go into your yamaha's graphic EQ settings, and add about 1.5 to 2.5db of boost from around 500-700hz on down to the lowest frequency. 

...Regarding klipsch speakers, I don't particularily like most of them. I think there's many, many options i would consider before that. I'm not against horns though. If you want to give horns a real shot, put some serious thought into Wayne Parham's 3 Pi Speaker Kits.


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## Mattamatikk (Jan 12, 2011)

GranteedEV said:


> before we jump ahead to finding you a new set of speakers, i want to point out that harman speakers are by no means mid heavy. They have a balanced approach most of the time, and the ones that don't tend to recess the mids more than overemphasize them. It may be best to troubleshoot the current issue.
> 
> Can you start by disconnecting your center speaker and setting everything up again as a 4.1 instead of a 5.1? I find "closed in" to be a common trait in center speakers, especially the MTM sort. I think what's happened is that your yamaha has much more robust amplifiers than the previous receiver, and now you're just hearing a more precise center image as a result, but that's not necessarily a good thing especially with TV shows that tend to be poorly mixed IMO. By removing the center channel from the equation you might be pleasantly surprised how much more natural the left/right mains project a sound across the TV. also make sure the tweeter is ear level.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for your time and help. I also think the Audyssey did some corection to the eq that the YPAO dont. But the strange thing is that the yamaha sounds soo good some times, and so "muddy" other times, when watching tv. Also some movies, as Braveheart on blue ray. The onkyo just sounded more "air like" and open. Other movies however, but for most movies the yamaha sounds very good. Same in music, the voices comes out big and clear, and sounds so much more rich and full than the onkyo did.

Regarding your sugestion on removing the center, this might be a problem. Due to living in a dorm room, i have the fronts too far from the tv, so listening in stero sounds strange (besides music), if you know what i mean? 

So, i have to try to figure out the eq, and there are 3 different kind. One called "Band eq", one called "Freq" and one called "Q". All of this is under "parametric eq". What eq should i alter? And what would the eq graph look like when im done? Like an upside dow V, or a V form...hard to explain what i mean. You tried to explain, but my english wasent good enough to quite understand it  

I do have the opurtunity to take this receiver back and go for onkyo 609 instead, however i really love the yamaha for music, and the on screen interface and all that...just seems so right.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Mattamatikk said:


> Thank you so much for your time and help. I also think the Audyssey did some corection to the eq that the YPAO dont. But the strange thing is that the yamaha sounds soo good some times, and so "muddy" other times, when watching tv. Also some movies, as Braveheart on blue ray. The onkyo just sounded more "air like" and open. Other movies however, but for most movies the yamaha sounds very good. Same in music, the voices comes out big and clear, and sounds so much more rich and full than the onkyo did.


Here's what I think is happening. You prefer the more robust amplifier sections on the yamaha, but you prefer what audyssey room correction did to the sound (things like muddy vs airy kind of give this away). Your best bet for both of those things would be a Marantz SR6004 most likely:

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...w-X-7ch-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html

Before that though I'd definitely take some effort to really optimize YPAO correctly.



> Regarding your sugestion on removing the center, this might be a problem. Due to living in a dorm room, i have the fronts too far from the tv, so listening in stero sounds strange (besides music), if you know what i mean?


Not quite. Could you diagram things? It might be a need for room treatments more than anything else. I do feel that if the placement of the L/R mains is compromised it's not really a good thing, though. 



> So, i have to try to figure out the eq, and there are 3 different kind. One called "Band eq", one called "Freq" and one called "Q". All of this is under "parametric eq". What eq should i alter? And what would the eq graph look like when im done? Like an upside dow V, or a V form...hard to explain what i mean. You tried to explain, but my english wasent good enough to quite understand it


Having never used yamaha electronics, I'm as confused as you are. When I get some free time i'll try to examine the manual for you.


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## Mattamatikk (Jan 12, 2011)

GranteedEV said:


> Here's what I think is happening. You prefer the more robust amplifier sections on the yamaha, but you prefer what audyssey room correction did to the sound (things like muddy vs airy kind of give this away). Your best bet for both of those things would be a Marantz SR6004 most likely:
> 
> http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...w-X-7ch-Home-Theater-Surround-Receiver/1.html
> 
> ...


That is very nice of you, however i dont want you using your free time reading a boring manual, i just wish the manual came in norwegian, my language. But hey, you are a very cool person for helping me out here, big thanks.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Mattamatikk said:


> And what would the eq graph look like when im done? Like an upside dow V, or a V form...hard to explain what i mean.


Without us hearing test tones played through your system, we really can't tell you how to set you're eq sliders (although GranteedEV earlier was able to make a helpful suggestion from the info you have provided) . All systems play the freq range differently so there is no generic "slider position" that fits all systems and situations.
The only proper way to know what eq sliders to boost/cut is to get a measurement of your systems freq range. This is accomplished in 2 ways....
1) use an automated testing system such as REW that is very popular on this site.
2) manually test the system with a test cd that plays freq test tones and measure those tones with a Sound Pressure Level meter (SPL meter).

The trouble with trying to adjust an eqaulizer by ear with your favorite song ,or audio from a movie, is that listening to that source you might be able to adjust the sliders so that it sounds best to you. But then listening to another song or movie might not sound correct.
Audio producers and engineers sometimes will boost/cut certain frequencies when audio tracks are being mastered because they think it will sound more appealing to certain audiences. I hear this often through my system, some content sounding just right, other content being way too bass heavy, other content is treble heavy, and with each song I want to go to my eq and adjust it to sound just right, but my system is eq'd fairly flat from 20hz-20khz so I resist the temptation just knowing that's the nature of the beast.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Mattamatikk said:


> Hello.
> 
> I currently have yamaha rx-v671 receiver and the HKTS 60 speaker pack, however i often feel voices sounds abit "closed in" (not while watching movies, but tv shows)...like the mid tones are to much. This wasent the case with my previous receiver, onkyo 608.
> 
> I do want to upgrade my speaker system, and im considering Klipsch RF-42 II series. How would you say the sound is`? Bright? Mid heavy? Since the yamaha does have a much more mid heavy tone than the onkyo, i dont want speakers that are too heavy on the mids. Any sugestions?


Hello Matt,
I currently have the Klipsch reference series as the setup for my home theater. I had a Yamaha rx-v567 but due to upgradeitis will be soon replacing with the Onkyo tx-nr809. I absolutely love my Klipsch speakers and highly recommend them. They are bright as some people describe but it's a sound I absolutely love. Watched Transformers Dark side of the Moon last week and was literally amazed at the soundtrack. Klipsch speakers seem to have both loyal followers as well as detractors but as always it is about what sounds good to you. This forum is invaluable as a reference and the people here are most helpful in offering advice. My 809 will be arriving on the 26th and I will post my findings as to whether the Onkyo was an improvement over my Yamaha. Best of luck.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
When it comes to Speakers, it really is about what sounds good to you. I am a huge admirer of Klipsch for just how efficient they are. It is a tremendous asset to be able to get Reference Level SPL's with a handful of Watts. This is especially important when connecting to an Entry Level AVR where often power into 5/7 Channels can be a major issue. With Klipschs, you really do not have to be concerned about it. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## Mattamatikk (Jan 12, 2011)

Hello. I have fixed the issue with the center channel now, all i did was selecting the "flat" in eq section and then running the YPAO again, now it sounds natural and right. A big thanks to all of you. 

Allthough i like the HKTS 60 speakers, i would love to get some bigger speakers in the near future, and klipsch is one of the options. But here is my problem. I live far in the rural country side of Norway, and there is no hifi store for many houres to drive. So go and listening to speakers are really a non option for me, other than the local store, witch have nada nothing  So, i would like to hear your options about speakers fitting for the yamaha 671 receiver. What do you guys think would be a good match? And how big speakers will this receiver drive?


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I have the Klipsch rf-82 ii's hooked up to a Yamaha rx-v567 and they sound great. I will be swapping out receivers today though as I have a Onkyo 809 being delivered. Most people say the Klipsch are very efficient and require little power to push them. That would seem to be true as my current is only rated at 90 watts per channel. You can't go wrong with Klipsch.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Mattamatikk said:


> Hello. I have fixed the issue with the center channel now, all i did was selecting the "flat" in eq section and then running the YPAO again, now it sounds natural and right. A big thanks to all of you.


That's great to hear!



> And how big speakers will this receiver drive?


I'm going to answer this first. Speaker physical size is not really a factor in a receiver's ability to drive them. Larger speakers do tend to have higher output ability and are often more complex 3-way or 2.5 way designs that can tax amplifiers though. Personally, I find that if a person is using subwoofers, speakers with deep bass extension are more redundant at the cost of sensitivity, which makes them a harder drive for amps. So I do prefer when manufacturers trade bass extension for sensitivity. I will say that it's a bit naive to expect 8 ohm speakers much of the time. At minimum good speakers tend to be a 4 ohm ohm load, and those that aren't could even have some unoptimal design choices implemented (IE woofers in series). Some speakers will dip even lower than 3 ohms. In general - there's actually _no_ general rule. I will say that the more drivers a speaker has, the less likely it is to have a deep soundstage. It's not universally true but it does apply to a lot of speakers out there. 

So the answer to your question is another question: How far do you sit? Generally I'd say speakers should be able to hit about 98db peaks at the seating position. Not quite reference level - but in reverberant spaces combined with the fact that there's few speakers that CAN hit reference levels without much distortion are rare - it's realistic. It's about 7db below reference levels which I find to normally have the most comfortable dialogue levels in most movies. 



> But here is my problem. I live far in the rural country side of Norway, and there is no hifi store for many houres to drive. So go and listening to speakers are really a non option for me, other than the local store, witch have nada nothing  So, i would like to hear your options about speakers fitting for the yamaha 671 receiver. What do you guys think would be a good match?


Yamaha rates the V671 with a 4 ohm "dynamic power" output of 200w. I don't know how realistic that would be in real world application as there's no details given of THD % but let's pessimistically assume it's closer to 150w into 4 ohms, 2 channels driven. It does not have any preamplifier outputs so that does restrict us to passive speakers.

I'm assuming here that you sit about 8 feet away. If you can correct me, then we can address this more in depth. If I had to recommend just one speaker without much knowledge of your budget, it would be the Philharmonic 2s - which would be $2000 + shipping from USA so *not* inexpensive - but still very high value. At 87.5db sensitive they'll probably be the least sensitive speakers I would purchase with an amp given the above assumed limitations. The one-step-down Philharmonic 1s would be $1600 + shipping for what it's worth. I suspect even that's above your budget though. I do think that ultra high value of those speakers is unbelievable, though. The 8" woofers should be a good step up in dynamic capability from the harman speakers, and the drivers are world class, plain and simple.

So what else can I recommend looking into? I suggest inquiring about dealers/distributors for (in descending order of cost)

- JBL LSR6332P
- JTR Triple 8HT-LP (especially if you DO want to be able to hit reference cleanly someday :devil: )

But the above are again pricier speakers. lower in price we've got:

- Soundfield Monitor 1s
- KEF Q700 / Q900
- Revel F12
- PSB Image T6
- SVS STS-02 / MTS-02
- EMP e55ti
- Infinity P363

The above are all mostly speakers that should tend more towards a neutral, natural presentation, with the infinities maayyybee being a bit more energetic than the rest. If you want something a bit unconventional, and are willing to accept that your receiver will be a bit of a limit on max SPL, do consider Magnepan MMGs.


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