# Bass floating about 1ft above listening/seating position...how do I bring it down?



## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

Like the title says: my bass is floating about 1 foot above main listening/seating position - what can I do to lower it? The bass is positioned for the best response, however it's floating. Any ideas gang?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

What kind of flooring do you have? Do you have more than one sub?


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> What kind of flooring do you have? Do you have more than one sub?


Carpeted floor on concrete slab.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Have you adjusted the phase on the sub/s as I think your canceling something out.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

What is the height of the room and your seated ear height?

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> What is the height of the room and your seated ear height?
> 
> Bryan


The room height is 8ft. The seated position of where ears fall is 3.3ft. The bass is floating at exactly 5ft.

Thanks for any help, Bryan!

I'm also gonna try switching the phase today.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Well, if it's at 5', that's 62.5% of the room height - basically the predicted 38/62% optimal. Panels over your head and/or getting the sub off the floor are potential solutions in addition to tweaking phase.

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> Well, if it's at 5', that's 62.5% of the room height - basically the predicted 38/62% optimal. Panels over your head and/or getting the sub off the floor are potential solutions in addition to tweaking phase.
> 
> Bryan


I just did a walk-around and found something interesting. This image I created should help! (see attached)


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> Well, if it's at 5', that's 62.5% of the room height - basically the predicted 38/62% optimal. Panels over your head and/or getting the sub off the floor are potential solutions in addition to tweaking phase.
> 
> Bryan


Should I play with how high I bring the sub off the ground or is there an optimal height? I've been wanting to build a bass-trap/riser - but never gave it any thought since I didn't think I would need one.....man, looks like I was wrong!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

In the corner with the sub is going to cause the most issues. I'd just try it on the other side of the monitor but still on the front wall. Play with location and reset the phase accordingly but I think that will help some.

As for the height, try maybe 15" off the floor.

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> In the corner with the sub is going to cause the most issues. I'd just try it on the other side of the monitor but still on the front wall. Play with location and reset the phase accordingly but I think that will help some.
> 
> As for the height, try maybe 15" off the floor.
> 
> Bryan


Thanks Bryan - I'll give that shot this afternoon.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The height is purely a guess. 

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> The height is purely a guess.
> 
> Bryan


I'll experiment. Since I don't have a bass trap/rise, will raising the sub have any adverse effects?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

It shouldn't. It's just getting it away from another boundary. You may notice a reduction in overall output but you'll get that just getting out of the wall/wall corner.

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> It shouldn't. It's just getting it away from another boundary. You may notice a reduction in overall output but you'll get that just getting out of the wall/wall corner.
> 
> Bryan


Well, after playing with the height of the sub, I was unsuccessful at getting the bass to settle within the listening level. 
I moved the bass to the other side of the monitor and no dice. :hissyfit:


I even brought in an "expert" (see attached) and even she was unsuccessful.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

OK. Was there any improvement at all? Any change in frequency issues by either raising it or moving it?

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> OK. Was there any improvement at all? Any change in frequency issues by either raising it or moving it?
> 
> Bryan


Not a huge difference - I even tried pushing the chairs one foot forward, one foot back - nothing. But when I stood up - I could hear the bass.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

OK. If you did all of that, then the next step is to have some thick panels on the ceiling over the seating position.

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> OK. If you did all of that, then the next step is to have some thick panels on the ceiling over the seating position.
> 
> Bryan


Define "thick". LOL!
Even with such a low ceiling? Craziness!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

At least 4" thick with an inch or 2 gap behind it.

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> At least 4" thick with an inch or 2 gap behind it.
> 
> Bryan


How large should the panel surface be?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Aaron, just install some big ceiling fans to blow the bass down! :dumbcrazy::rofl:


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Aaron, just install some big ceiling fans to blow the bass down! :dumbcrazy::rofl:


I gots some box fans....some drywall ceiling hook oughta do the trick, right???

Some of the audioholic folks are saying this will fix it: http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_subdude/subdude.asp


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The SubDude will only decouple the sub from the floor and deal with any resonances that might be introducing but I don't think it will help with the suckout in general.

As for how big, depends on how big the seating area is. For one seat, probably 2 2'x4' panels.

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> The SubDude will only decouple the sub from the floor and deal with any resonances that might be introducing but I don't think it will help with the suckout in general.
> 
> As for how big, depends on how big the seating area is. For one seat, probably 2 2'x4' panels.
> 
> Bryan


This might give you a better idea:


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

It is a fascinating question, because we don't often think of sound in our rooms in three dimensions. 

Have you tried using the REW software to measure the bass frequency response at the lower ear level and at the height where you say it is fine? Is it just a difference in level? Or is there a difference in the nature of the curve, dips in one or peaks in the other? Obviously effects at only certain frequencies could correlate with particular distances in the room and tell you something more about what is happening. And that might suggest changes in the sub or chair position. Or measurements could tell you that the bass response is even at ear level, and what you are hearing 5 feet up is an exaggerated level.

REW includes an RTA function to let you measure continuously while moving the microphone. I've read where people have used this in two dimensions, but I've not seen where anyone tried it in three. 

Good luck,
Bill


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I'd do at least 3, 4 if you can fit them between the surrounds.

Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> I'd do at least 3, 4 if you can fit them between the surrounds.
> 
> Bryan


Length-wise running towards the monitor?




laser188139 said:


> It is a fascinating question, because we don't often think of sound in our rooms in three dimensions. Have you tried using the REW software to measure the bass frequency response at the lower ear level and at the height where you say it is fine? Is it just a difference in level? Or is there a difference in the nature of the curve, dips in one or peaks in the other? Obviously effects at only certain frequencies could correlate with particular distances in the room and tell you something more about what is happening. And that might suggest changes in the sub or chair position. Or measurements could tell you that the bass response is even at ear level, and what you are hearing 5 feet up is an exaggerated level. REW includes an RTA function to let you measure continuously while moving the microphone. I've read where people have used this in two dimensions, but I've not seen where anyone tried it in three. Good luck, Bill


There's gonna be quite a bit of hand-holding if I begin to use this tool...but I'm willing to give it a try!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Yes. 4' front to back and however wide you can get between the surrounds.

Bryan


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## dyohn (Apr 17, 2008)

If there are bass floating 1 ft over your head you must be underwater.



I agree with the earlier suggestions to get the subwoofer out of the corner. Try placing it about 1/3 the length of the long wall from a side wall, or move it to the left side will in front of the seats facing into the room. Short of adding bass traps on the ceiling (and probably in that cannon corner you have to the right) you may just have to up the level and live with it.


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

bpape said:


> Yes. 4' front to back and however wide you can get between the surrounds.
> 
> Bryan


Would I want them to hover directly above or to be pushed forward alittle (since in front of the seat is where the bass is hovering)?

And by the way: thanks for all the help, bryan! I'd send you Christmas cigars, if I knew you smoked em!


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

dyohn said:


> ... Try placing it about 1/3 the length of the long wall from a side wall, or move it to the left side will in front of the seats facing into the room. Short of adding bass traps on the ceiling (and probably in that cannon corner you have to the right) you may just have to up the level and live with it.


Those were two of the ideas I had. I also wondered whether the sound would be better with the sub in the cannon corner. There is a fair chance that measurements won't give a clear indication of which idea to try, you may still have to try them all, but they can still help in comparing the effects of different positions.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I do a nice cigar once in a while  Put them right over your head centered. If the bass is worse in front of you, don't mind that. Doesn't matter except where you sit.

Bryan


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## Andysu (May 8, 2008)

KASR said:


> This might give you a better idea:


The bass is going into the other space, that (arch way) hmm…I wonder what would happen if, you would to place the sub in that room?

Oh, course a REW sweep where the sub is at present. Then stick it in the other room and run a second REW sweep.

As for the other room 

It may improve with less power? 
It may only be just the same as before? 
It maybe worse?

Give it try the sub is small and manageable to move around.

One other thing, I’d not just place it…hold on second.

Do you have any stools around if the answer is yes place the sub on the stool, get it off the floor, that will solve a few frequency issues. 

Stop and glance around the room and use all possible dimensions! Up and down along the sidewalls back wall front, don’t be so reliant on the floor, who says it has to go on the floor.

Also I’m looking at the sofa. Place the subs side to the spine of the sofa so it vibrates into the sofa, place it butt tight against the spine which should be centred on the sofa.

You’d feel and hear as well not sure what the frequency response will be like without a REW sweep.

And if this make you feel any comfortable I have few frequencies that are stronger a few inches to few feet above seated positioning, but I’m not sweating. REW will show even an SPL db but (REW is more accurate at seeing the whole spectrum).


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

Andysu said:


> The bass is going into the other space, that (arch way) hmm…I wonder what would happen if, you would to place the sub in that room?


No, actually the picture shown is from the other side of the room - if you check the previous image I posted (diagram) you'll see what I mean.



Andysu said:


> Oh, course a REW sweep where the sub is at present. Then stick it in the other room and run a second REW sweep.


I'm still getting everything I need straight to run the REW...I must admit I'm alittle intimidated by the REW...unless otherwise told that it's a cinch.



Andysu said:


> As for the other room
> 
> It may improve with less power?
> It may only be just the same as before?
> ...


I've done that, I even placed in the opposite corner of the area that was receiving clear bass and it didn't improve the listening area. 



Andysu said:


> One other thing, I’d not just place it…hold on second.
> 
> Do you have any stools around if the answer is yes place the sub on the stool, get it off the floor, that will solve a few frequency issues.
> 
> Stop and glance around the room and use all possible dimensions! Up and down along the sidewalls back wall front, don’t be so reliant on the floor, who says it has to go on the floor.


I did try to elevate the subwoofer when it was on the right of the monitor and while it did help with cleaning up the bass, it didn't bring it down to the proper listening area.


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## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

Based on Bryan's earlier suggestion that the base floating at 5' matched 62.5% of the room height, I thought the obvious suggestion was to keep the sub in its current corner but mount it on the roof. Then the sweet spot might be closer to ear height. But the mechanics of the mounting might be a little tricky. 

Bill



bpape said:


> Well, if it's at 5', that's 62.5% of the room height - basically the predicted 38/62% optimal. Panels over your head and/or getting the sub off the floor are potential solutions in addition to tweaking phase.
> 
> Bryan


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

laser188139 said:


> Based on Bryan's earlier suggestion that the base floating at 5' matched 62.5% of the room height, I thought the obvious suggestion was to keep the sub in its current corner but mount it on the roof. Then the sweet spot might be closer to ear height. But the mechanics of the mounting might be a little tricky.
> 
> Bill


Is that even a realistic option? I mean, I'm not opposed to trying it!


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

KASR said:


> I'm still getting everything I need straight to run the REW...I must admit I'm alittle intimidated by the REW...unless otherwise told that it's a cinch.


While there IS a little learning curve with REW, as with all software, the help files are pretty good with step by step instructions, and the help given by the mods in that forum area is spectacular. I'll admit that I may be a little biased.:whistling:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

glaufman said:


> and the help given by the mods in that forum area is spectacular. I'll admit that I may be a little biased.:whistling:


But your help is very appreciated and probably does not get the credit it deserves. REW is a very powerful piece of software.


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

glaufman said:


> While there IS a little learning curve with REW, as with all software, the help files are pretty good with step by step instructions, and the help given by the mods in that forum area is spectacular. I'll admit that I may be a little biased.:whistling:


I've been reading some of the REW help files and the equipment that I need...there are a few questions that are boggling my mind - like the sample file and if I need the SPL meter if I have a laptop that does line in and line out....but I'll start posting over there.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> But your help is very appreciated and probably does not get the credit it deserves. REW is a very powerful piece of software.


Thanks! I wasn't fishing, honestly I wasn't...:whistling:


KASR said:


> I've been reading some of the REW help files and the equipment that I need...there are a few questions that are boggling my mind - like the sample file and if I need the SPL meter if I have a laptop that does line in and line out....but I'll start posting over there.


I'm not sure what you mean by "the sample file" but there are two calibration files you'll need: the first is for the soundcard, REW generates that itself once you make the necessary connections, the second is the microphone... we have generic cal files you can use for certain microphones that are popular, or you can buy one from an outfit that will provide a custom cal file with the mic... you will indeed need the SPL meter. Whether or not you'll need another mic after that depends on the SPL meter and what frequencies you want to look at. If your laptop has line in/out, you may not need a separate soundcard, but you will still need to generate the cal file for the internal soundcard.


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