# Pro-amp for Axiom Speakers



## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

I was reading a thread regarding crown xti amps vs behringer ep2500 for use as a sub amp ... one of the interesting things that came up is that the xti works better with a 8 ohm load vs the behringher being efficient all the way down to a 2 ohm load so thus more suited as a sub amp than the xti

At some point ( when I have lots of cash that I am not using to complete my theatre ) I will want to drive the speakers independently and use a pre/pro with seperate pro-amps

The Axiom speakers that I have are all rated at 4 & 6 ohms ( M80, VP150, QS8 )

so my question is what would be the recommended pro-amps to run these speakers with lots of head room ?

Thanks


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Hmm, well to be honest just about anything. It would boil down to budget of course but any pro amp is going to have headroom to spare in a home environment. There would only be a handfull to stay away from. I know people have had great success with QSC, Crown and Behringer for main channel amplification. 

You could always check out the list of amps certified for use in THX theaters if you want some assurance of quality.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

ScruffyHT said:


> At some point ( when I have lots of cash that I am not using to complete my theatre ) I will want to drive the speakers independently and use a pre/pro with seperate pro-amps
> 
> The Axiom speakers that I have are all rated at 4 & 6 ohms ( M80, VP150, QS8 )
> 
> so my question is what would be the recommended pro-amps to run these speakers with lots of head room ? Thanks


Those speakers are really nice ...:yes:

Looking at the specifications, all can handle a max of 400 watts and min 10 watts.

What are you using to power them right now??? ... to gain 3db you have to double the power (if using 130 you need 250); but even if you don't gain a lot, depending on what you're using maybe you'll be taking some stress from your AVR :yes:

What will be your budget??? ... Do you want to power each speaker with one amp or a pair with one amp??? ... Do you play your system really loud or so-so???

I just got a Samson Servo 600 to power just the fronts ... and it was a big improvement :yes:, and I spend just $250 :bigsmile:


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

Well the situation is that the theatre is at rough-in wiring ( waiting for funds to get electrician to hook up subpanel so I can energize the plugs  ) ... all components are purchased and tested in there already ... axiom speakers, Optoma HD80, anamorphic lens and Onkyo TX-SR674 AV Receiver which I am currently using in the Great Room. Just need to finish the thing so I can hook it all up permanetly instead of the 2 week testing that I have done ( needed to double check riser height, final speaker locations, final projector/lens location etc )

Thing is that receiver is only 95W/channel so now I am looking into what the audio 2.0 is going to look like  

I am pretty sure I can start by just adding pro amps to this receiver one at a time till I have all channels covered and then add the pre/pro last ( thinking of the Integra for that )

The Behringer is a good " bang for the buck " so to speak at 650W/channel but I have not read much about it being used for anything other than to drive subs ... do many people use it for mains ? This is what I was leaning to for the M80's

For the VP150 & QS8's I am not sure

I have not heard of the Samson before but looks like a nice amp ... Samson website would not pull up the specs though as they seemed to be offline or bad link

I have heard of QSC and Crown ... but after hearing that Crown amps are better suited to 8 ohm loads that takes them out of the picture for my axioms ( here is a link to the discussion ... http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/13323-crown-xti-amps.html )

Is there any better overall value out there than the Behringer for the mains I guess is what I want to know and also for the center and surrounds is there a amp that would stand out as best price/performance/value

Lets face it when we put together these theatres it costs a few bucks ... I am not concerned about brand names as I am about price/performance/value ... if I can get a amp that delivers the performance at a reasonable price that is what I will add to this system ... even if I have to add it a piece at a time


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

ScruffyHT said:


> The Behringer is a good " bang for the buck " so to speak at 650W/channel but I have not read much about it being used for anything other than to drive subs ... do many people use it for mains ? This is what I was leaning to for the M80's


Which Behringer is that??? ... the Ep1500???



> I have not heard of the Samson before but looks like a nice amp ... Samson website would not pull up the specs though as they seemed to be offline or bad link


Maybe they were offline .. here is a link http://www.samsontech.com/products/brandpage.cfm?brandID=2 ... :yes:



> ... if I can get a amp that delivers the performance at a reasonable price that is what I will add to this system ... even if I have to add it a piece at a time


You have to consider this too... the usage of an ART cleanbox to match the input line level of consumer AVR and pro-amps, I don't know if you already read this  thread  about it.

But if a pro-amp has RCA's, you don't need that to match line level input ... that's why I got my Samson, and Behringer A500 has RCA's too :yes:


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

ScruffyHT said:


> I have heard of QSC and Crown ... but after hearing that Crown amps are better suited to 8 ohm loads that takes them out of the picture for my axioms ( here is a link to the discussion ... http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-subwoofers/13323-crown-xti-amps.html )


The issue with the Crowns is limited to that particular model line, and I have some personal doubts about the numbers deirved in those tests. The xti models aside, Crowns are some of the most robust and powerfull amps on the market. Pro amps in general are great with low impedence, high current demands as they are frequently run in these modes to accommodate large numbers of speakers and high efficiency. 

As far as a better bang for the buck than Behringer... there's not much I can think of. QSC probably offers the highest quality for the buck for the amps I'm aware of, though much of that quality is the ability to stand up to road abuse which of course will not happen in your home. (hopefully)

The truth be told, you may find that the internal amps in your Onkyo receiver are sufficient to drive your system to levels that are acceptable for you. For the most part all amps are going to sound the same as long as they are driven within their design constraints. Obviously if you choose to listen at concert levels, you're going to need more than 95 watts. :bigsmile: And of course upgraditis is always a factor and I think in your instance a great decision factor for the purchase of external amplifiers.

I would check the market for some used QSC MX series amplifiers. These were a workhorse of the pro audio and cinema world a few years back and are THX certified. They do have constant fans so they should probably be mounted in an area where the noise will be kept to a minimum. I don't know of too many pro amps whos fans don't run continuously other than the ones already mentioned in this thread.


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

The Behringer is high quality amplifier, regardless of cost. People assume it's only a bang for the buck case, when in fact, it's simply a great amp. It measures superbly, it can handle any load with ease and has great build quality compared to home amps and even better than some popular pro amps like the Crown XLS line. It even uses good quality components inside, which is not what you would expect. It's only weakness is common of many pro amps: fan noise. But as you know, this is easily correctable with the popular Panaflo fan swap.

If you want something with a more 'respected' name, the Yamaha P**00S amps are great. They cost around 2x more per watt compared to the Behringer EP2500, but they are also silent out of the box. No fan noise. Pro Yamaha gear is considered to be very high quality if 'reputation' is important to you.

-Chris


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## WmAx (Jan 26, 2008)

thxgoon said:


> The issue with the Crowns is limited to that particular model line, and I have some personal doubts about the numbers deirved in those tests.


To be fair, Crown was thoroughly notified of these tests and had ample opportunity to provide another test unit. If indeed the amp tested was defective, then it would have been in Crown's best interest to send an amp, especially considering the popularity of the tester and his amp measurements. Those test results have probably (I'm just guessing) cost Crown hundreds if not thousands of sales. The only thing Crown did in response was to claim to test another sample in house and claim it was to spec, which they should realize, manufacturer claims are not very valuable to people, being such a biased source, and especially not valuable to those that use/read the amplifier 3rd party testing results for purchase considerations because they don't trust manufacture specs to begin with!

-Chris


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

WmAx said:


> To be fair, Crown was thoroughly notified of these tests and had ample opportunity to provide another test unit.


WmAx, good to see you still around! 

I would agree but would disagree (with no disrespect intended to the tester) that the test had a significant impact on sales of their units. My doubts stem from experience with the quality of their products, and if indeed the amp was defective, I find it perfectly reasonable that they would not take the time to send another unit. My doubts aside, I don't think these tests results should cast a bad shadow on the reputation of Crown as a whole.


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

I dont know if my goal is " upgraditis " as you call it as much as I appreciate reference level sound and dont want to risk my speakers on a amp that may clip " accidentally "

The goal is to gain as much headroom for as reasonable a price as I can ... the Integra pre/pro thread I have followed for quite sometime and that is ultimately what I want to run the show


I have invested quite a bit into soundproofing the theatre and plan to do the same for room acoustics so audio 2.0 is inevitable ( I even have a plan for where the current receivers will rotate to other rooms  )

I have been looking around and the Behringer ep2500 can be had for as low as $280 with free shipping 

3 of those would cover main/side/rear ... if I were to go this way is there a suggestion for the center channel ?

PS ... all the equiptment will be under the stairs seperate from the theatre operated by a RF remote so fan noise should not be a issue


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

salvasol said:


> Which Behringer is that??? ... the Ep1500???



actually it was the ep2500 ... 650W/channel @ 4 ohms


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

ScruffyHT said:


> I have been looking around and the Behringer ep2500 can be had for as low as $280 with free shipping
> 
> 3 of those would cover main/side/rear ... if I were to go this way is there a suggestion for the center channel ?
> 
> PS ... all the equiptment will be under the stairs seperate from the theatre operated by a RF remote so fan noise should not be a issue


Awesome! I would actually suggest using a single channel of one EP2500 to drive both surround back speakers and the other channel for the Center speaker. Though this would potentially place a lot more of the load on that particular amp, you could spread things out a bit. This would save you the cost of an additional amp.

If you don't mind the additional expense, the center channel should have as much power or more as any other. Perhaps a bridged 1500?


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

WmAx said:


> The Behringer is high quality amplifier, regardless of cost. People assume it's only a bang for the buck case, when in fact, it's simply a great amp. It measures superbly, it can handle any load with ease and has great build quality compared to home amps and even better than some popular pro amps like the Crown XLS line. It even uses good quality components inside, which is not what you would expect. It's only weakness is common of many pro amps: fan noise. But as you know, this is easily correctable with the popular Panaflo fan swap.
> 
> -Chris


Thanks Chris ... I was already considering the ep2500 for my sub but needed to know if it was used outside of that application effectively ... sounds like a winner


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

ScruffyHT said:


> I dont know if my goal is " upgraditis " as you call it
> 
> I even have a plan for where the current receivers will rotate to other rooms  )


And so it begins.... :whistling: :bigsmile:


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

thxgoon said:


> Awesome! I would actually suggest using a single channel of one EP2500 to drive both surround back speakers and the other channel for the Center speaker. Though this would potentially place a lot more of the load on that particular amp, you could spread things out a bit. This would save you the cost of an additional amp.
> 
> If you don't mind the additional expense, the center channel should have as much power or more as any other. Perhaps a bridged 1500?


Do you think a ep2500 is overkill for the rears ?

I like the idea of a bridged 1500 for the center though


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

ScruffyHT said:


> Do you think a ep2500 is overkill for the rears ?


Probably. But that's what makes this hobby so much fun. :bigsmile: Since your goal is to have enough power that you never have to worry about it, and if it fits in your budget, then no


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

thxgoon said:


> And so it begins.... :whistling: :bigsmile:


lol ... I have a games room that I am building as part of the basment development that has my old Harmon Kardon 7.1 slated for it ... I have a *old* Sansui 200W 2 channel amp that will be used in the Great Room temporarily till I do audio 2.0 for the theatre 

so the plan is ...

Integra pre/pro -> Theatre
Onkyo -> games room
HK -> Great Room
Sansui -> Theatre for buttkickers


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

thxgoon said:


> Awesome! I would actually suggest using a single channel of one EP2500 to drive both surround back speakers and the other channel for the Center speaker. Though this would potentially place a lot more of the load on that particular amp, you could spread things out a bit. This would save you the cost of an additional amp.
> 
> If you don't mind the additional expense, the center channel should have as much power or more as any other. Perhaps a bridged 1500?


I am a little concerned about the difference in load between the rear and center


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

So bottom line is that if I can get the EP2500 for under $300 beans apiece it is probably the best bang for the buck ... is that about right ?


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

ScruffyHT said:


> So bottom line is that if I can get the EP2500 for under $300 beans apiece it is probably the best bang for the buck ... is that about right ?


There might be better deals out there but not any that are going to be worth the extra effort. I don't think you'll be dissapointed :T


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

ScruffyHT said:


> Is there any better overall value out there than the Behringer for the mains I guess is what I want to know and also for the center and surrounds is there a amp that would stand out as best price/performance/value


Another brand you might look into is Carvin. Unlile a lot of pro amps, they actually look pretty decent in a home rack. They have a couple of four-channel amps that might be a good deal, compared to two separate amps. Carvin sells manufacturer direct so you get a lot of bang for the buck. Theoretically it should be a better built amp than one selling for about the same price with a retail mark-up.

Regards,
Wayne


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

Thanks ... I will look into them


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

Hey Wayne ... I looked at those amps but it would seem that I can get 2 X ep2500 for alot less than one of those 4 channel amps ( with similar power rating ) ... what do you think ?


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