# Official Power Sound Audio (PSA) Thread



## Reefdvr27

I have placed my order for a pair of XV-15's. I will add photos and my first impressions when they arrive.

PSA should start shipping as of mid to late August. 



http://www.powersoundaudio.com/


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## ALMFamily

Subscribed!

Would you mind adding a post talking about your impressions of the order process and the CS experience therein?


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## wgmontgomery

ALMFamily said:


> Subscribed!
> 
> Would you mind adding a post talking about your impressions of the order process and the CS experience therein?


+1


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## Reefdvr27

ALMFamily said:


> Subscribed!
> 
> Would you mind adding a post talking about your impressions of the order process and the CS experience therein?


 The ordering process was great. I actually talked with Tom Vodhanel through emails and he really took the time to fit me with the right subs. I am sure he was busy with getting the company up and running and yet still took the time to answer all my questions. Anyone not familiar with the company, it was founded by Tom Vodhanel and Jim Farina formally of SV Subwoofers. 

Until these subs begin shipping you will get 5% off a single sub and 10% of a pair. You will need a code at the checkout. You can get the code by emailing the sales department.


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## ALMFamily

Thanks for posting the info!


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## GoNoles

Subscribing. Ive got an email into them. I was all set on the FV15HP, but the XV30 really has me interested. Every time I think Im set on a sub I get derailed lol.

The sub looks very basic, but Im sure it's a hammer if you take into account the team. The price is just awesome.


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## Reefdvr27

GoNoles said:


> Subscribing. Ive got an email into them. I was all set on the FV15HP, but the XV30 really has me interested. Every time I think Im set on a sub I get derailed lol.
> 
> The sub looks very basic, but Im sure it's a hammer if you take into account the team. The price is just awesome.


I agree with the XV30, it is a monster!! I wanted to get the XV30 and a XV15, but Tom thought that I would be better off with two XV-15's. I was set on the FV15 and also the VTF-15 and someone tipped me off to PSA and it was a game changer.

Yes, the subs are very basic, but said to look better in person. I am liking the fact that they have a isolation plate/riser built in. From what I am gathering is that this line of subs at the introduction are only the beginning as they will be introducing a premium line of subs in the near future. I am very interested to see what the future holds for PSA.


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## GoNoles

I just over an email with questions, and got a reply from Tom in 56 mins. I guess I can't complain about that Lol.

This is gonna be tough... Even though I know they plan more premium models, this is my price range and that big monster with dual 15's just screams HT sub.


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## Tom V.

Hi all,

Quick update. First production run today. Lots assembled, tested, wrapped, and boxed. Bad news---we missed the fedex cutoff(we weren't going to rush QC). We are staying late and coming back early so I'm anticipating a BIG dent in the pre-order waiting list by tomorrow afternoon. 

Also, we are extending the pre-order discount period to end of day Monday(8-20). 

Thanks to everyone for their patience I know we missed our original shipping estimates. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## GoNoles

Excellent, can't wait to hear impressions of the dual 15's.


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## GoNoles

Tom, 

Any more plans on getting review models out to folks like Sound and Vision, Home Theater Mag, etc...?


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## Tom V.

We have 4-5 review subwoofers that will be built over the weekend and shipped out early next week. Josh Ricci, Jman, and Dave Upton all get review samples.

The super large mags/websites tend to focus on companies that are can toss major advertising dollars their way. That is just the way it works(understandably), they have bills to pay too. Jim and I both come from an engineering back round though(we formed the entire r/d 'staff" of svs from 1999-2007) and our goal is to keep Power Sound Audio focused on the R/D side. We won't ignore advertising/marketing completely but our belief is....if you make the product good enough to "sell itself"...it generally will. I just saw a comment on another forum which mentioned the typical spending ratio is 20:1 (for every 1 dollar a company spends on Research and development it spend 20 dollars on advertising). Power Sound Audio may try reversing that..

Of course, "word of mouth" reviews/comments from our customers will always be our most important "advertising" metric imo. 

One thing that DOES help with the super big sites(like sound and vision) is if they get a lot of requests to review a certain product. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## GoNoles

Understood, and we all appreciate the break on the wallet ID companies give us.

Im looking forward to input, Im already committed on my current sub choice, but intend on a HT room in a new house in the coming couple of years. Im always glad to see more options when it comes to subwoofers.


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## raynist

Here are pictures of the 3 XV-15's I picked up at their shop on saturday morning as I am only 80 miles away:










Next to a SVS PB12+/2 (they are setup along with 2 of these SVS subs)










Next to a SVS PB12+










In their current location behind a couch:










I absolutely love these subs, it took the wife 4 days to notice they were even there! They really don't stick out despite their size. I think I can finally say that I have enough bass (at least until Powersound releases something more powerful  ). 

I would say from my experience so far that 3 of these XV-15's are more powerful than my 2 PB12+/2's.

Very pleased!!!

If anyone is in the Pittsburgh area they are welcome to come check them out.

--Ray


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## raynist

I wanted to post about my experience with the order process and customer service at Powersound Audio.

I have spent the past two months sending Tom questions about his subwoofer line, sending him my room layout, comparing their line of subs against subs I own and was looking at. Often times there were strings of emails lasting well past midnight. Never had to wait very long for an answer. He even recommended subs other than what they sell. After I finally decided that I was going to go with 2 XV-15's over 1 XV-30, I changed my mind and order several times and finally decided on 3 XV-15's. There was never a problem with order changes. They even showed up at the shop on their day off (Saturday) so that I could pick them up in person. Jim Farina spent well over an hour showing me the parts that the subs were made of (drivers, boxes, amps, packing material) and showing me around the shop. I got some good insight on what it took to bring these to market.

These are a couple of great guys with a great products. 

I look forward to being a customer for years!

--Ray Nist


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## GoNoles

I've emailed em a few times, been great. Even though I went another way with my current move, I hope to look at them in the future when I can finally do my HT room.

One thing thats a good showing with an ID company, great communication. It's nice when you can to the THE man, with little effort.


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## theJman

Thus far I can tell you this much about the XS15...


 The amp generates virtually no heat. If you really push it there's some warmth, but under normal everyday usage it's almost imperceptible.
 There's more dynamic range then I anticipated. The ability to play nuanced bass is better then I thought it would be.
 It can play loud. Actually, check that; it can play *loud*. If you like SPL's you'll love this sub.
For a version 1.0 product from a version 1.0 company PSA has done a wonderful job. I'm pretty impressed at this point, especially when you consider it only costs $700.


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## Ikarius

I just pulled the trigger on ordering a single PSA XS-15. Let the waiting begin! This is probably going to be entirely silly compared to my current 8" sealed sub, which I purchased used expecting it to "tide me over" until I got into a real sub. Here comes a "real" sub. :whistling:


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## 86eldel68-deactivated

Ikarius said:


> I just pulled the trigger on ordering a single PSA XS-15. ... This is probably going to be entirely silly compared to my current 8" sealed sub ...


I suspect it will be entirely silly in a very satisfying way.


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## theJman

Here's a quick shot of what the XS15 looks like without the driver and amp.


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## theJman

Ikarius said:


> I just pulled the trigger on ordering a single PSA XS-15. Let the waiting begin! This is probably going to be entirely silly compared to my current 8" sealed sub, which I purchased used expecting it to "tide me over" until I got into a real sub. Here comes a "real" sub. :whistling:


You probably won't be waiting too long because PSA has been shipping them pretty fast. Note that each and every sub goes through a QC process before it gets shipped, which I find to be an extraordinary step to take. That obviously increases the lead time, but to be honest they're pushing them out quickly.

As far as an upgrade from your 8" sub goes... I'm not sure "upgrade" would be the correct word, but I suppose it will do.  When you first hook up the XS15 it might sound a bit underwhelming, relatively speaking. You may also find the need to run it a little 'hot'. Don't let that bother you though; it took about 6-8 hours before I started to be impressed, and then I've been gradually dialing it back ever since.

One thing I can virtually guarantee is that you won't be disappointed. For $700 I honestly can't imagine anything beating the value provided by this sub.


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## Ikarius

Yeah, disappointment is not what I'm expecting. :T

PSA already registered the shipment with fedex, so looks like it may well go out by end of today.


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## wgmontgomery

Ikarius said:


> I just pulled the trigger on ordering a single PSA XS-15. Let the waiting begin! This is probably going to be entirely silly compared to my current 8" sealed sub, which I purchased used expecting it to "tide me over" until I got into a real sub. Here comes a "real" sub. :whistling:


:TT


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## JBrax

Ikarius said:


> I just pulled the trigger on ordering a single PSA XS-15. Let the waiting begin! This is probably going to be entirely silly compared to my current 8" sealed sub, which I purchased used expecting it to "tide me over" until I got into a real sub. Here comes a "real" sub. :whistling:


I think you are in for a treat. I had a Klipsch rw-12d and replaced it with a real sub (SVS pb12-nsd). As Jman stated once it's dialed in you will discover what a real sub can do to change the experience. Digging down deep and doing so cleanly is something to behold when watching a good movie.


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## Ikarius

I finally got around to writing up my system, and posted it over in the systems subforum. With a couple of weeks with the PSA under my belt, I can say definitively that it's amazing. Cleanest sub I've ever gotten the opportunity to listen to, and just sits there and handles room-shaking bass from movies with aplomb. Blends wonderfully with the rest of my system, and generally does wonderful things. Watching blu-rays is a real treat- Inception is insane with this subwoofer. Home theater is now meeting or exceeding movie theater quality sound-wise. I'm really stoked, it pretty much completed my system. There are pictures in the other thread, though the subwoofer picture is simply snapped with the subwoofer tucked back behind the TV credenza- it's the only place in my room I can possibly put the subwoofer.


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## Reefdvr27

I have had my subs for a couple of months now and I lover em. I went ahead and got the XV-30's and my bass problems are now over. I mean these things just shake the whole house :hsd:. Very clean bass, no distortion or cabinet noise, just plain old deep bass!! The best part really is Tom and Jim, they bring customer service to a whole new level. It was a pleasure to deal with them. Looking forward to new products in the future.


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## Blake90

JBrax said:


> I think you are in for a treat. I had a Klipsch rw-12d and replaced it with a real sub (SVS pb12-nsd). As Jman stated once it's dialed in you will discover what a real sub can do to change the experience. Digging down deep and doing so cleanly is something to behold when watching a good movie.


Hmm, I simply don't agree that the RW-12d is not a "real sub." This sub does not get enough credit for how amazing it sounds. I have heard SVS, eD, HSU and various other ID brands. While they all sound great, the Klipsch sub is no slouch. I have two right now, and they are amazing. Just watched Underworld Awakening on them and they shook the entire house without any distortion or port noise with ease. I added a little internal bracing and secured the port tubes better and WOW do these things absolutely POUND.


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## Cris

I just ordered an XS15. Looking forward to the upgrade.


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## 86eldel68-deactivated

FYI, last week PSA unveiled the XV30f ($1,399, shipped):
- dual, front-firing 15" drivers
- 750W RMS amp w/ DSP
- 21-200Hz +/-3dB (16Hz-18Hz typical in-room extension)
- 22.5" (d) x 18.5" (w) x 45" (h)
- 155lbs.


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## pharoah

im sure someone else here has seen this.it looks killer.

triax sub


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## needspeed52

pharoah said:


> im sure someone else here has seen this.it looks killer.
> 
> triax sub


Getting closer to having my expresso Triax in house, glad the foundation is all concrete and everything is secured. Can't wait :dumbcrazy:


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## pharoah

cant wait to hear your impressions on it.


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## Saturn94

I'm considering the XV30f.

Anyone here have one of these and pics they can share? I paticularly like to see what the back looks like since this isn't shown on the website.

I'm in the process of looking to upgrade my current SVS 16-46PC+, so naturally PSA has caught my interest.


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## needspeed52

pharoah said:


> cant wait to hear your impressions on it.


Likewise my friend :T


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## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> I'm considering the XV30f.
> 
> Anyone here have one of these and pics they can share? I paticularly like to see what the back looks like since this isn't shown on the website.
> 
> I'm in the process of looking to upgrade my current SVS 16-46PC+, so naturally PSA has caught my interest.


Very good choice indeed, the back will be void of the port as you know it is under the sub (6") and the amp will be very similar to all the X line of subs, very similar to this shot of the XV15 and XS30. Hope this helps
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xv15
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xs30
They are all Bash amps and very effecient and never get hot (like a few I have owned) even when pushed hard. Good luck with your purchase, you won't be sorry. PSA has a signature sound.......GOOD :hsd:
Cheers Jeff


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## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> Very good choice indeed, the back will be void of the port as you know it is under the sub (6") and the amp will be very similar to all the X line of subs, very similar to this shot of the XV15 and XS30. Hope this helps....
> 
> They are all Bash amps and very effecient and never get hot (like a few I have owned) even when pushed hard. Good luck with your purchase, you won't be sorry. PSA has a signature sound.......GOOD :hsd:
> Cheers Jeff


Thanks for the info and encouragement. I did see what the BASH amp looks like. I'm curious how high up its mounted on the XV30f.

One reason I ask is that I noticed that my current subs room response is better close to the corner. Moving just a foot or so out makes the FR worse. So it could be that the best orientation for the XV30f will be aimed at the corner, placing the drivers closer to the corner, instead of out into to room wher the drivers would be a couple feet from the corner.

So I'm curious what the back looks like and if the amp is mounted low enough that I can obscure it with a plant. 

Oops, had to remove your URL links to respond. I don't have enough posts yet to include links.


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## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> Thanks for the info and encouragement. I did see what the BASH amp looks like. I'm curious how high up its mounted on the XV30f.
> 
> One reason I ask is that I noticed that my current subs room response is better close to the corner. Moving just a foot or so out makes the FR worse. So it could be that the best orientation for the XV30f will be aimed at the corner, placing the drivers closer to the corner, instead of out into to room wher the drivers would be a couple feet from the corner.
> 
> So I'm curious what the back looks like and if the amp is mounted low enough that I can obscure it with a plant.
> 
> Oops, had to remove your URL links to respond. I don't have enough posts yet to include links.


Fire Jim or Tom an email, they will get back to you with all the info in no time at all, besides having high quality product, customer service is second to none literally.


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## needspeed52

Hey Saturn, someone posted som pics of the back of the XV30F on AVS, the amp looks rather small and is located almost flush with bottom of cab., a small plant will work well to conceal the plate amp. Doesn't reco firing the divers into corner tho.. Check it out.
Cheers Jeff


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## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> Fire Jim or Tom an email, they will get back to you with all the info in no time at all, besides having high quality product, customer service is second to none literally.


Yes, I've been exchanging many emails with Tom lately and I'll be sure to get his input. Having bought my SVS from Tom 10 years ago I've have the pleasure of experiencing his brand of customer service. :T



needspeed52 said:


> Hey Saturn, someone posted som pics of the back of the XV30F on AVS, the amp looks rather small and is located almost flush with bottom of cab., a small plant will work well to conceal the plate amp. Doesn't reco firing the divers into corner tho.. Check it out.
> Cheers Jeff


Thanks, I did see that. He was kind enough to turn that beast around to show the back, and like you said a plant would do nicely to obscure the amp. He also mentioned listening to it while he had it turned around and said he did not hear a difference.


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## needspeed52

That's very encouraging for what you have in mind, enjoy.


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## Saturn94

Even after measuring I was still having trouble picturing how an XV15 or XV30f would look in my room. I had enough cardboard to make a mockup of the XV15, so I put one together tonight.

I have to say it's bigger than I imagined. I'm really not sure now if I would like the XV30f in my living room. The XV15 fits perfectly in the corner where my current sub is located (front left corner), but I was considering also putting one on the right side of the couch. There it just barely fits between the sofa and recliner.

Anyone think there would be an issue with localization for the person sitting in the recliner with the XV15 literally right next to them?


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## Tom V.

Saturn94 said:


> Even after measuring I was still having trouble picturing how an XV15 or XV30f would look in my room. I had enough cardboard to make a mockup of the XV15, so I put one together tonight.
> 
> I have to say it's bigger than I imagined. I'm really not sure now if I would like the XV30f in my living room. The XV15 fits perfectly in the corner where my current sub is located (front left corner), but I was considering also putting one on the right side of the couch. There it just barely fits between the sofa and recliner.
> 
> Anyone think there would be an issue with localization for the person sitting in the recliner with the XV15 literally right next to them?


 Just a heads-up on the sizing. Two XV15s stacked would be almost the exact dims of a single XV30f. That might help imagine just how big the 30s are..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> Just a heads-up on the sizing. Two XV15s stacked would be almost the exact dims of a single XV30f. That might help imagine just how big the 30s are..
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Thanks Tom.

I did notice that, hence my second guessing if I want something that big in my living room.


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## Tom V.

Saturn94 said:


> Thanks Tom.
> 
> I did notice that, hence my second guessing if I want something that big in my living room.



Well, compared to your 46+...the XV30f height is about 2.0 inch less. , width =1.5" more...depth = 5.5" more. So two of the three dims are about the same....bit more depth. You could always do a quatro-stack of Triax.....we actually have one customer who ordered 4 with that intent.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## ShaunH

Tom V. said:


> Well, compared to your 46+...the XV30f height is about 2.0 inch less. , width =1.5" more...depth = 5.5" more. So two of the three dims are about the same....bit more depth. You could always do a quatro-stack of Triax.....we actually have one customer who ordered 4 with that intent.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


I think I feel sick just thinking about how much bass that would be.... wow


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## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> Well, compared to your 46+...the XV30f height is about 2.0 inch less. , width =1.5" more...depth = 5.5" more. So two of the three dims are about the same....bit more depth. You could always do a quatro-stack of Triax.....we actually have one customer who ordered 4 with that intent.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


There's something about the box form that seems to take up so much more space visually than the cylinder. Even the XV15 mockup "feels" more bulky in the room than the 16-46.

Now if I had the good fortune to have a dedicated AV room, then size wouldn't be an issue :T

Quad stack of Triax's....:thud:


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## TheLaw612

When I first got my XV15 I was in awe of how big it was coming from a small BIC 10" sub. However, that feeling has gone away over time and it really doesn't seem that big to me anymore.


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## needspeed52

TheLaw612 said:


> When I first got my XV15 I was in awe of how big it was coming from a small BIC 10" sub. However, that feeling has gone away over time and it really doesn't seem that big to me anymore.



That really does seem to happen a lot, at first you're overwhelmed by the size of the shipping box and the actual subwoofer and then after a while when you have the sub dialed in you actually don't seem to notice the size unless there are other smaller subs around. With PSA subs their sound draws attention to the size of them, the amount of clean undistorted sound is amazing. It's kind of addicting, makes you want more when you don't need it, although many will say you could never have too much LFE


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## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> That really does seem to happen a lot, at first you're overwhelmed by the size of the shipping box and the actual subwoofer and then after a while when you have the sub dialed in you actually don't seem to notice the size unless there are other smaller subs around. With PSA subs their sound draws attention to the size of them, the amount of clean undistorted sound is amazing. It's kind of addicting, makes you want more when you don't need it, although many will say you could never have too much LFE


This reminds me when I was shopping for a new TV to replace my 40" RPTV. I was set on getting a 50" set thinking this would be plenty big for my room and viewing distance. Long story short, I was convinced to get a 60" set, and when it first arrived it looked like a monster in my room! It wasn't too long before I adjusted to the size, now it just seems normal to me with anything smalller looking tiny. 

Cosmetically it would help if the XV30f offered different veneer options (another reason I like the XV15).

I'm still on the fence about what to get. Meanwhile, I've been working on getting the best out of my existing sub. Not only is this educational, but it's helping me better identify my needs/wants in a new sub.


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## green giant

For a while I've really wished someone would get into the Triangle shaped subwoofer business. Now this one might be a tad too big for my room, but I'd love someone to make a single 12, or something like the old klipsch RT12 so I could get two and stick them in both corners. From a fit and form perspective I'd love something like that.


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## Saturn94

Ouch.....I just noticed the cost of the base for the XV15 went up to $100.

I hope they can hold off a bit longer until they have raise the cost of all the models.


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## TheLaw612

Saturn94 said:


> Ouch.....I just noticed the cost of the base for the XV15 went up to $100.
> 
> I hope they can hold off a bit longer until they have raise the cost of all the models.


Yeah that is unfortunate, but understandable. The XS15 with the base is still only $50 more though.

Still amazing products though!


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## cr136124

My order for a XS30 with Cordovan Cherry veneer has been placed!!!

Tom V. @ PSA, thanks a lot for all your support, guidance and patience answering all my questions and helping me out to pick the best sub for my room/needs.

I cannot wait to have it at home.........PSA rocks!!!


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## needspeed52

cr136124 said:


> My order for a XS30 with Cordovan Cherry veneer has been placed!!!
> 
> Tom V. @ PSA, thanks a lot for all your support, guidance and patience answering all my questions and helping me out to pick the best sub for my room/needs.
> 
> I cannot wait to have it at home.........PSA rocks!!!


Congrats on the sub. I have to agree with you 100%, the PSA subs do speak for themselves but getting them in your home is the kicker. I bought my first PSA sub not knowing how they would sound, to be honest it was as you mentioned the quality customer service, I had high mail CPU usage keep popping up on my computer from all the emails to Tom and Jim, truly remarkable in this day of marketing hype, honesty and integrity with PSA. The XS30 will rock, it seems you have plenty of rock going on in your home. I think you will be very happy with you choice. :hsd:
Cheers Jeffrey


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## cr136124

needspeed52 said:


> Congrats on the sub. I have to agree with you 100%, the PSA subs do speak for themselves but getting them in your home is the kicker. I bought my first PSA sub not knowing how they would sound, to be honest it was as you mentioned the quality customer service, I had high mail CPU usage keep popping up on my computer from all the emails to Tom and Jim, truly remarkable in this day of marketing hype, honesty and integrity with PSA. The XS30 will rock, it seems you have plenty of rock going on in your home. I think you will be very happy with you choice. :hsd:
> Cheers Jeffrey


Thanks Jeffrey!!!

I'm totally sold on the superb pre-sale service they provided me with absolutely no pressure!!! I'm confident the subwoofer is going to be a nice addition to my system and based on their (Tom/Jim) knowledge and reputation there is no doubt in my mind that I made the right choice purchasing this subwoofer. My only regret.........I can only buy one.......:rant:

Sooooooo, I looked at your system and I noticed you already have 3 PSA subs and you are adding a Triax this month............:yikes:

Do you want to adopt me?

:innocent:


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## needspeed52

cr136124 said:


> Thanks Jeffrey!!!
> 
> I'm totally sold on the superb pre-sale service they provided me with absolutely no pressure!!! I'm confident the subwoofer is going to be a nice addition to my system and based on their (Tom/Jim) knowledge and reputation there is no doubt in my mind that I made the right choice purchasing this subwoofer. My only regret.........I can only buy one.......:rant:
> 
> Sooooooo, I looked at your system and I noticed you already have 3 PSA subs and you are adding a Triax this month............:yikes:
> 
> Do you want to adopt me?
> 
> :innocent:


You're welcome my Son :T That's the problem with the XS30, it almost forces you to get a second, and yes it is worth it. 
Cheers, Your adopted Father :T


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## cr136124

needspeed52 said:


> You're welcome my Son :T That's the problem with the XS30, it almost forces you to get a second, and yes it is worth it.
> Cheers, Your adopted Father :T


LOL.........well, I don't think I'll be able to buy a second XS30 anytime soon.........I'm actually flying under the radar on this sub..........let's see how long is going to take for my wife to notice it at my room.........:rofl:

So, what is the sub configuration that you currently using? I mean, two XS30 at the front, XV15 at the back? The other way around perhaps? Something else?


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## Norcuron

I have a Triax on order. I hope it is going to ship next week. I already sold my SVS PB 12/2 plus a couple weeks ago to a family member. It is very strange without a sub. I have very high hopes and can't wait for it to arrive so I can start feeding it. I'll post more as soon as it arrives. I ordered the black crinkle finish. That finish worked very well on my SVS.


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## cr136124

Norcuron said:


> I have a Triax on order. I hope it is going to ship next week. I already sold my SVS PB 12/2 plus a couple weeks ago to a family member. It is very strange without a sub. I have very high hopes and can't wait for it to arrive so I can start feeding it. I'll post more as soon as it arrives. I ordered the black crinkle finish. That finish worked very well on my SVS.


Hey, congrats on your Triax! This is an impressive subwoofer. So, I bet you should be very excited to add it to your system. I cannot picture myself been without a subwoofer for days. So, hopefully it will arrive really soon, so you can bet back on business............:bigsmile: 

Speaking on arriving soon, did you receive any confirmation on the ETA for this bad boy already?


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## raynist

I am in the process of selling off one sub and moving others to different rooms in prep of my dual Triax's!

I can't wait to go pick them up. They will be replacing 6 subs!!!


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## Norcuron

I spoke with Tom this past Wednesday and still no drivers. He is hoping they were going to ship last week. It is tough with no sub at all.


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## needspeed52

Norcuron said:


> I spoke with Tom this past Wednesday and still no drivers. He is hoping they were going to ship last week. It is tough with no sub at all.


It will be well worth the wait :T


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## cr136124

Norcuron said:


> I spoke with Tom this past Wednesday and still no drivers. He is hoping they were going to ship last week. It is tough with no sub at all.


Ouch, no subwoofer at all!?!?! That must be really tough. I mean, I was here all sad that I'll have to wait a couple of extra weeks to receive my subwoofer. But, in my case it will be a 3rd subwoofer. So, just yesterday we were watching a movie with my wife and the bass coming from my two subwoofers was really good. At that moment I was just wondering how my system is going to sound with the 3rd subwoofer.

But, after reading your post, I should be grateful that at least my two subs are taking good care of me until the new unit arrives. 

Remind me again, what sub did you order?



needspeed52 said:


> It will be well worth the wait :T


:T


----------



## Norcuron

It's really hard to feel sorry for you when you only have two haha. I sold my SVS PB+/2 and now am waiting for a Triax. Everything is different without a sub. I was playing kill zone 3 on my PS3 and its just not the same. Trust me once the Triax is broken in a little it will be utilized to its fullest for many years to come. I like all types of music so it will be blasting everything from Scorpions and AC/DC TO Skrillex to home theater.


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## cr136124

Norcuron said:


> It's really hard to feel sorry for you when you only have two haha. I sold my SVS PB+/2 and now am waiting for a Triax. Everything is different without a sub. I was playing kill zone 3 on my PS3 and its just not the same. Trust me once the Triax is broken in a little it will be utilized to its fullest for many years to come. I like all types of music so it will be blasting everything from Scorpions and AC/DC TO Skrillex to home theater.


Oh c'mon now don't get shy with me...........just go ahead and purchase a second Triax already........:devil:

Seriously, congrats! You must be really excited about the new sub. So, what is the ETA?


----------



## Norcuron

I hope it ships this week but ill have to call Tom tomorrow to get an update. There has been a delay shipping the woofers to PSA.


----------



## needspeed52

Patience is a virtue. Jim and Tom assured me that every Triax leaving their facility will be thoroughly run through the gamut of operational functions, this is no lick em and stick em company, in other words just installing the drivers and shipping out ASAP is not their MO. A lot of R&D went into the Triax, driver and component implementation is critical and will be addressed prior to shipping. I hope that makes the wait a little less painful. Also there will be a XLR to RCA adapter provided for those who don't have balanced sub outputs, but you probably already knew that. I just can't say enough for PSA and Tom-Jim and their dedication to customer satisfaction and attention to detail, I have been dealing with PSA since it's inception and couldn't imagine dealing with any other ID sub company. No I don't work for PSA or am I affiliated with them in any way except to reco their products to any interested in the best price to performance ratio product that I know of. Thanks for listening and enjoy.
Cheers Jeff :T :hsd:


----------



## cr136124

Norcuron said:


> I hope it ships this week but ill have to call Tom tomorrow to get an update. There has been a delay shipping the woofers to PSA.


I don't think the Triaxs are impacted by the drivers (shipment) delay. My understanding is that only the X series subwoofers are impacted by this issue (that includes my XS30). So, you should receive yours really, really soon. 

I'm really looking forward to read your initial impressions on this bad boy. If you don't mind me asking: how big is your room and what receiver do you have?

Cheers!


----------



## raynist

I believe there has been a small delay with the Triax drivers as well which is unrelated to the delay of the X series drivers. I am really looking forward to setting these up!!


----------



## needspeed52

raynist said:


> I believe there has been a small delay with the Triax drivers as well which is unrelated to the delay of the X series drivers. I am really looking forward to setting these up!!


Hey Ray, do you have all your Xseries subs moved to new locations so you can place your Triaxs? That's a lot of sub relocation, what 5-6? Yes I also know that the delay is due to Triax drivers not being available, it was an unexpected situation but hopefully they will start shipping soon. I don't know the amp situation, as that may also be a factor, one thing I do know is that not one Triax will ship until they're perfect.
Cheers Jeff :clap:


----------



## needspeed52

I don't know if you guys heard about one guy who ordered four Triaxs, plans on stacking all four. :yikes:


----------



## raynist

The 3 XV15's are being traded in. 

I sold the PB12+ and the two PB12+/2's are being moved to the living room

I believe that they have everything else in house ready to go, just waiting for the drivers.


----------



## Saturn94

Have any Triaxs shipped yet?

I'm anxious to hear feedback from Triax owners, especially those with larger spaces (5000^3+).

Found out today we may get a bonus this year.....enough for a Triax?...... raying:


----------



## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> Have any Triaxs shipped yet?
> 
> I'm anxious to hear feedback from Triax owners, especially those with larger spaces (5000^3+).
> 
> Found out today we may get a bonus this year.....enough for a Triax?...... raying:


None shipped yet, waiting on drivers, too bad you will have to pay retail and not pre-order price:spend:


----------



## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> None shipped yet, waiting on drivers, too bad you will have to pay retail and not pre-order price:spend:


I noticed the price on the PSA site is still at the pre order price although it also says price good thru June. Any idea when the price will increase? I just looked and the full retail price isn't listed anymore. :scratch:


----------



## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> I noticed the price on the PSA site is still at the pre order price although it also says price good thru June. Any idea when the price will increase? I just looked and the full retail price isn't listed anymore. :scratch:


I think I was the second person to order the Triax according to Jim, I was informed that the Triax had to be pre-ordered by the end of June and finish options had to be decided by the 20th of June. But due to this delay in shipping this may have all changed. I was initially told the Triax would ship around the 4th of July or within a week to ten days of that date. Obviously that has all changed, all Triax orders should have been fulfilled by this time, so maybe you can still give Jim or Tom a holler and see what's up, there is no mention of the $32-3300 price after pre-order. If I had to guess, once the first Triax is shipped it will go to the retail price. If I'm not mistaken that's how the X series subs went down. I thought reading your posts at AVS you ordered a Triax already.


----------



## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> I think I was the second person to order the Triax according to Jim, I was informed that the Triax had to be pre-ordered by the end of June and finish options had to be decided by the 20th of June. But due to this delay in shipping this may have all changed. I was initially told the Triax would ship around the 4th of July or within a week to ten days of that date. Obviously that has all changed, all Triax orders should have been fulfilled by this time, so maybe you can still give Jim or Tom a holler and see what's up, there is no mention of the $32-3300 price after pre-order. If I had to guess, once the first Triax is shipped it will go to the retail price. If I'm not mistaken that's how the X series subs went down. I thought reading your posts at AVS you ordered a Triax already.


I've not ordered anything yet as I've not made up my mind. It may be a bit too optimistic to think I'll be able to go for a Triax, although if our bonus comes through it may be a possibility. I need to see if the thing will even fit in my space (planning to make a mockup this weekend). More likely I'll end up with a pair of XV15s or XS30s.


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## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> I've not ordered anything yet as I've not made up my mind. It may be a bit too optimistic to think I'll be able to go for a Triax, although if our bonus comes through it may be a possibility. I need to see if the thing will even fit in my space (planning to make a mockup this weekend). More likely I'll end up with a pair of XV15s or XS30s.


Either way you decide to go 15s or 30s, you will not be dissappointed. I had both of these subs in my home, I started with a single XV15 and was amazed at the clean deep output of this sub, I decided to get a second, I think the biggest advantage of going with duals was the smoothing out of the frequency response and not so much more output, there actually was but I didn't realize it at first because the LFE was just every where now, no localization at all, it's amazing how duals can do that for a listening environment. I would say the XV15 has sheer brute force with refinement if that makes sense. There is a saying about bigger rooms that eqates to bigger sound from subs, I can attest to that. My LR is not overly large but is of good size, 15' W X 26' L X 8' H. A single XV15 did well in that room, seriously. You know how we are tho, we always want more and dual 15s did the trick, I didn't have the XV15s more than a couple of months when Tom and Jim approached me with the XS30, naturally I packed up the 15s and ordered dual XS30s. To say that I was impressed is an understatement, they completely pressurized my room with tons of headroom left. It's a tough choice as I really liked the ported subs as well. I just got settled in with the XS30s and Jim fires an email about a new Flagship sub (Triax) and of course I told him to put me on the top of the list. I think you will be happy with either choice and you can always trade up to the Triax when funds become available or you may be so happy with dual 30s or 15s that you will never look back. Good luck with your endeavor, let us know your decision.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> Either way you decide to go 15s or 30s, you will not be dissappointed. I had both of these subs in my home, I started with a single XV15 and was amazed at the clean deep output of this sub, I decided to get a second, I think the biggest advantage of going with duals was the smoothing out of the frequency response and not so much more output, there actually was but I didn't realize it at first because the LFE was just every where now, no localization at all, it's amazing how duals can do that for a listening environment. I would say the XV15 has sheer brute force with refinement if that makes sense. There is a saying about bigger rooms that eqates to bigger sound from subs, I can attest to that. My LR is not overly large but is of good size, 15' W X 26' L X 8' H. A single XV15 did well in that room, seriously. You know how we are tho, we always want more and dual 15s did the trick, I didn't have the XV15s more than a couple of months when Tom and Jim approached me with the XS30, naturally I packed up the 15s and ordered dual XS30s. To say that I was impressed is an understatement, they completely pressurized my room with tons of headroom left. It's a tough choice as I really liked the ported subs as well. I just got settled in with the XS30s and Jim fires an email about a new Flagship sub (Triax) and of course I told him to put me on the top of the list. I think you will be happy with either choice and you can always trade up to the Triax when funds become available or you may be so happy with dual 30s or 15s that you will never look back. Good luck with your endeavor, let us know your decision.
> Cheers Jeff


Thank you for the feedback and encouragement.

I essentially have 3 challenges to consider;

1. room is open concept, about 5500 ft3
2. limited placement options
3. and of course, budget

Fortunately my 10 year old SVS 16-46PC+ still performs well, so I'm in no rush to make a decision. I'll certainly let everyone know once I decide.


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## raynist

Are you planning on keeping the 16-46?

I was able to integrate my 3 XV15's with 3 other SVS subs. 

I bet if you add an XV15 or two to your 16-46 they would work well. 

I had a 16-46 PC+, I loved that sub!!!


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## needspeed52

raynist said:


> Are you planning on keeping the 16-46?
> 
> I was able to integrate my 3 XV15's with 3 other SVS subs.
> 
> I bet if you add an XV15 or two to your 16-46 they would work well.
> 
> I had a 16-46 PC+, I loved that sub!!!


I totally agree, I would start with a single XV15 and try to integrate it with your SVS. The XV15 is very flexible with placement and will provide surprising good clean low output. See how this works out with your existing sub and then I would go from there. It is a bummer that you have limited placement options and the size of your space, you definitely need multiple subs in that environment. The SVS and XV15 should reveal a lot about your situation and where to go from there. Good Luck.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Norcuron

1. Spoke with Tom yesterday and they still do not have a shipping date for the Triax woofers to them. Once they receive them he said it should only take a couple of days to put them together.
2. He said they were just leaving the Pre-Order pricing like that until they actually start shipping them.
3. The room I have it going into is 14' 10.5 inches x 13' x 10' x 17'. The ceiling has a low of 10' 7" and vaults to 18".


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## Norcuron

Here is the room my Triax is going in. It will be in the back corner to the left of the fireplace next to the couch.



































You can see last pic how celing vaults behind TV.


Sunfire Theater Grand IV , 
Sunfire Signature Amp 400x7 , 
Oppo DV971H DVD Player , 
PS3,
Klipsch RF-7s , 
Klispch RS-7 , 
Klipsch RC-7 , 
Power Sound Audio Triax on order
Sharp Aquos Quattron 80" 3D TV


----------



## pddufrene

That's a really nice setup you got there, I'm looking forward to hear what you think of the triax. I myself have been waiting on a order from PSA I wish it was for a triax to but its for a XV15 and I'm chomping at the bit to get it.


----------



## Saturn94

raynist said:


> Are you planning on keeping the 16-46?
> 
> I was able to integrate my 3 XV15's with 3 other SVS subs.
> 
> I bet if you add an XV15 or two to your 16-46 they would work well.
> 
> I had a 16-46 PC+, I loved that sub!!!





needspeed52 said:


> I totally agree, I would start with a single XV15 and try to integrate it with your SVS. The XV15 is very flexible with placement and will provide surprising good clean low output. See how this works out with your existing sub and then I would go from there. It is a bummer that you have limited placement options and the size of your space, you definitely need multiple subs in that environment. The SVS and XV15 should reveal a lot about your situation and where to go from there. Good Luck.
> Cheers Jeff


The reason I started a sub search is that every once in a great while my 16-46PC+ would bottom out with action movies with very loud/ very deep LFE effects. Modern soundtracks seem to be getting more aggressive, so it seems to happen more now than 10 years ago when I bought it. Btw, I've never heard it bottom out with music. My initial plan was to find a second 16-46PC+, but didn't have any luck (wanted one close enough to check out in person before buying).

Plan B was to find a single sub to match my SVS. Of course I considered SVS's current offerings, but prefer PSA for a few reasons. Turns out the XV15 and XV30f share nearly the same tuning frequency as my 16-46PC+ so they should work well together. I guess that's not surprising given they share the same baby daddy. 

Of course once I considered getting a new sub, the question came up about possible benefits of outright replacing my sub with a single sub or multiples. Tom said in his opinion I would benefit from taking the SVS out of the system and replacing it with a new sub such as the XV30f or a pair of XV15s or XS30s. He said I could expect cleaner bass, increased headroom, and no unpleasant noises or possible driver damage when the subs reach their limits (the 16-46PC+ has no limiter to protect the driver).

For cosmetic and more flexible placement reasons I've narrowed my choices to the XV15 or XS30.

So what to do? Go the most economical route and get a single XV15 to pair with my SVS? Step it up a notch and get a pair of XV15s to outright replace the SVS (or even use the SVS as a third sub?)? Try something different with a pair of XS30s replacing the SVS (not likely to work well with the sealed PSAs)?

Perhaps it's important to note my sub experience is pretty much limited to my 10 years with my 16-46PC+. I've never tried multiple subs or sealed subs before.

Recently I started using REW to take measurements and happily discovered that my sub's current location in the front left corner gives the best response. Tom said my response graph actually looked very good, and this is without the benefit of EQ or room correction (my processor lacks these features). I'm thinking of trying something like a miniDSP to see what improvements I can make. Also it should come in handy should I give multiple subs a try.

Ok, I'm rambling now.......I'll stop.


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## pddufrene

Start off with one XV15, you never know paired with your Svs u never know u might be happy with just those 2 subs paired together. If not later down the road u can always add another XV15 when the money is available.


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## needspeed52

hey Guys, I thought I would show you my actual Expresso sub awaiting drivers, courtesy of Jim, nice huh?








I made some matching footers to go with the sub. :sn:


----------



## pddufrene

needspeed52 said:


> hey Guys, I thought I would show you my actual Expresso sub awaiting drivers, courtesy of Jim, nice huh?
> 
> I made some matching footers to go with the sub. :sn:


That would look great in my living room!

Very nice! Bet u can't wait to get that bad boy.


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## needspeed52

pddufrene said:


> That would look great in my living room!
> 
> Very nice! Bet u can't wait to get that bad boy.


Maybe you will get to know how it will look in your living room one day. I took me a long time to get where I'm at in this hobby, I took a twenty year hiatus from it and because of this new HT thing I started to get the fever again. I just renovated my Sota Sapphire 111 table after being in storage for twenty years, bought it new in 86. I'm an old timer and have been involved since I was 18 which is lddude: 43 years ago. I learned a lot since then, before Audyssey and all the RC devices on the market. I've been through many bad choices and junk fi since then. I don't think I could find a better bargain than the Triax having owned every PSA sub except the XV30, I really like the F version. I am patient and know Jim and Tom will not dissappoint, these guys are great and they have the product to match their CS which is second to none. One thing I've learned is to have a SO that supports my passion for music and HT, I don't feel any guilt when I purchase an audio component, if I'm happy so is she. That's my free tweak to a better sounding audio rig. :T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## pddufrene

needspeed52 said:


> Maybe you will get to know how it will look in your living room one day. I took me a long time to get where I'm at in this hobby, I took a twenty year hiatus from it and because of this new HT thing I started to get the fever again. I just renovated my Sota Sapphire 111 table after being in storage for twenty years, bought it new in 86. I'm an old timer and have been involved since I was 18 which is lddude: 43 years ago. I learned a lot since then, before Audyssey and all the RC devices on the market. I've been through many bad choices and junk fi since then. I don't think I could find a better bargain than the Triax having owned every PSA sub except the XV30, I really like the F version. I am patient and know Jim and Tom will not dissappoint, these guys are great and they have the product to match their CS which is second to none. One thing I've learned is to have a SO that supports my passion for music and HT, I don't feel any guilt when I purchase an audio component, if I'm happy so is she. That's my free tweak to a better sounding audio rig. :T
> Cheers Jeff


Well congratulations! I hope that one day my SO will share the same passion for this hobby as I do to. I bet things have changed significantly in your time, it has for me and I'm 34  I can't wait to hear your impressions on your new toy when u finally receive it. And thank you for the insight.


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## needspeed52

pddufrene said:


> Well congratulations! I hope that one day my SO will share the same passion for this hobby as I do to. I bet things have changed significantly in your time, it has for me and I'm 34  I can't wait to hear your impressions on your new toy when u finally receive it. And thank you for the insight.


Thank you my friend, it is my pleasure to share my insights with you. Yes things have changed over time, my wife of 11 years is the third one. I am truly Blessed to have her in my life, it's a big deal to sit and watch a movie together or relax and listen to music from various sources. She has no problem with reference levels either  I will definitely post my impressions of the Triax as soon as I get it, everything is all together and I already know where it's going, so it should be a plug and play deal, of course I will dial it in but I just want to get a quick idea of what it is capable of in my space. With my room gain I should achieve this :hsd:
Cheers and thanks, Jeff


----------



## Saturn94

Well, I decided to just go for broke and ordered a Triax. 

I sent my response measurements to Tom and he agreed a single sub should be fine for my needs.


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## pddufrene

Saturn94 said:


> Well, I decided to just go for broke and ordered a Triax.
> 
> I sent my response measurements to Tom and he agreed a single sub should be fine for my needs.


Did he mean a single triax are a single xv15! Lol....


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## Saturn94

pddufrene said:


> Did he mean a single triax are a single xv15! Lol....


Hehe....

Tom did say a single XV15 would work, but would be at it's limits in my space (approx 5500 ft3). He suggested I consider an XV30f instead if I wanted to stick with a single sub. The idea behind going with a ported sub is that it would be a good match with my SVS 16-46PC+ if I wanted to try it as a second sub.

That said, Tom also mentioned I'd probably realize a bigger improvement if I took the SVS out of the system. Long story short, I was able to extend my budget enough to go for the Triax, so I figured I'd go for the gusto and see how it works out.

I'm excited about trying something different (powerful sealed design).


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## pddufrene

Saturn94 said:


> Hehe....
> 
> Tom did say a single XV15 would work, but would be at it's limits in my space (approx 5500 ft3). He suggested I consider an XV30f instead if I wanted to stick with a single sub. The idea behind going with a ported sub is that it would be a good match with my SVS 16-46PC+ if I wanted to try it as a second sub.
> 
> That said, Tom also mentioned I'd probably realize a bigger improvement if I took the SVS out of the system. Long story short, I was able to extend my budget enough to go for the Triax, so I figured I'd go for the gusto and see how it works out.
> 
> I'm excited about trying something different (powerful sealed design).


Well congratulations! That's one major upgrade. I can't wait to hear your impressions on that monster once you get it.


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## Saturn94

pddufrene said:


> Well congratulations! That's one major upgrade. I can't wait to hear your impressions on that monster once you get it.


Speaking of monsters, this thing is 190 lbs! I welcome suggestions on how to safely get this thing in my house and in position. :gulp:


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## pddufrene

Saturn94 said:


> Speaking of monsters, this thing is 190 lbs! I welcome suggestions on how to safely get this thing in my house and in position. :gulp:


You can always rent a fork lift! Lol 
Are get a heavy duty dolly, I wish you luck with that one.


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## steve nn

Saturn94 said:


> Speaking of monsters, this thing is 190 lbs! I welcome suggestions on how to safely get this thing in my house and in position. :gulp:


I don't think it can be done.. maybe send it my way and I'll see how it might be made easier for you. :wave:


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## Saturn94

steve nn said:


> I don't think it can be done.. maybe send it my way and I'll see how it might be made easier for you. :wave:


Such a generous offer....  I don't want to take advantage of you kindness though.


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## Norcuron

I am hoping a hand truck and blankets are going to do the trick.


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## Saturn94

Norcuron said:


> I am hoping a hand truck and blankets are going to do the trick.


I do have a small hand truck. Perhaps wrap it in a blanket then tip the sub on one of the short sides onto the hand truck?

I would just slide it, but to get from the garage or outside into the house I have to go up a short step. Once I get it into the house I can just slide it.

Hopefully once they start shipping owners will post tips on how to get it in place. :T


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## cr136124

My XS30 has been shipped............:bigsmile:


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## Saturn94

The veneer samples arrived yesterday....the winner is Cordovan Cherry.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks in person. 

I just realized today the Triax amp doesn't have an auto on/off feature. Anyone know of something I can use with it that will allow me to use my processor's 12v trigger to power it on and off?


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## Saturn94

cr136124 said:


> My XS30 has been shipped............:bigsmile:


Now the real wait starts... :clock:


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## cr136124

Saturn94 said:


> The veneer samples arrived yesterday....the winner is Cordovan Cherry.
> 
> I'm looking forward to seeing how it looks in person.
> 
> I just realized today the Triax amp doesn't have an auto on/off feature. Anyone know of something I can use with it that will allow me to use my processor's 12v trigger to power it on and off?


I choose the same finish for my sub..........congrats :T



Saturn94 said:


> Now the real wait starts... :clock:


Agree..............and it is killing me!!!


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## Saturn94

cr136124 said:


> I choose the same finish for my sub..........congrats :T
> 
> 
> 
> Agree..............and it is killing me!!!


I'd love to see pics when you get it.


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## cr136124

Saturn94 said:


> I'd love to see pics when you get it.


Delivery has been scheduled for tomorrow's afternoon (Monday). So, I'll make sure to share some pics with all of you guys.

I cannot wait............:hsd:


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## Saturn94

cr136124 said:


> Delivery has been scheduled for tomorrow's afternoon (Monday). So, I'll make sure to share some pics with all of you guys.
> 
> I cannot wait............:hsd:


I'm jealous. 

Looks like it'll be a month before my Triax arrives, if there are no more delays. :sad:


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## cr136124

Saturn94 said:


> I'm jealous.
> 
> Looks like it'll be a month before my Triax arrives, if there are no more delays. :sad:


Do you want to trade? I can ship you my XS30 and I'll gladly wait for the Triax.........seems like a fair trade to me...........lddude:

:rofl:


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## Saturn94

cr136124 said:


> Do you want to trade? I can ship you my XS30 and I'll gladly wait for the Triax.........seems like a fair trade to me...........lddude:
> 
> :rofl:



Ummmm, let me think.......NO!


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## cr136124

Saturn94 said:


> Ummmm, let me think.......NO!


Are you sure about that? This is one of those rare opportunities that happens only once in a life time................



*Spoiler* 



*for me!*




:yikes:


Jokes aside, I wish you don't have to wait much longer to receive your Triax. Keep us posted and don't forget to share your initial impressions and pics.........ton of pics!!!


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## Saturn94

cr136124 said:


> Are you sure about that? This is one of those rare opportunities that happens only once in a life time................
> 
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*
> 
> 
> 
> *for me!*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :yikes:
> 
> 
> Jokes aside, I wish you don't have to wait much longer to receive your Triax. Keep us posted and don't forget to share your initial impressions and pics.........ton of pics!!!


Your generosity is greatly appreciated. 

I'll definitely post pics and impressions. I look forward to the same from you. :T


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## cr136124

The XS30 has been delivered today!!!!


Pics, pics and more pics!!!


*Spoiler* 














































































































































I'm really happy with the Cordovan Cherry veneer, it is a bit darker than my Ultras, but is a close match with my speakers.

:bigsmile:


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## Saturn94

cr136124 said:


> The XS30 has been delivered today!!!!
> 
> 
> Pics, pics and more pics!!!
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm really happy with the Cordovan Cherry veneer, it is a bit darker than my Ultras, but is a close match with my speakers.
> 
> :bigsmile:


Again, congrats. :woohoo:

Looking forward to reading your impressions once you get it set up.

I was also considering the Ultra, so if you could I'd be interested in how they compare.


----------



## cr136124

Saturn94 said:


> Again, congrats. :woohoo:
> 
> Looking forward to reading your impressions once you get it set up.
> 
> I was also considering the Ultra, so if you could I'd be interested in how they compare.


Thanks man!

Here is a pic of the XS30 now located behind my couch:












My initial impression is.........WOW. I had the chance to play some of the demo scenes now that the system has been re-calibrated and there is a huge difference. Just the fact that you are at the couch and that thing is shaking like crazy is taking you to a whole different level.........:yikes:

I can simple say this little experiment (ported and sealed) integration has been very positive for "me". Yes, they are different subwoofers, different companies, but IMO there are few factors that are helping to achieve the goods results that I'm having at my room without extra equalization, sub crawl technique, etc. In other words, just installed the 3rd subwoofer behind the couch, I ran Audyssey and enjoy.

In any case here is what I think (my very own personal opinion) is helping to integrate the subs:


I level matched the Ultras (at the MLP) "prior" running Audyssey.
Equidistant location of the Ultras at the front stage related with the MLP.
Audyssey XT32 has no issue to recognize them and calibrate them as a single subwoofer (keep in mind I'm using a Y splitter at my Denon's SW1 output for these two subwoofers).
The distance was (I think) accurately calculated by Audyssey for these two subwoofers.
XS30 has been placed at a near field location - so it has not issue to keep the pace with the Ultras (XS30 amp doesn't need to put much effort due to its proximity to the MLP).
It has been individually measured and calibrated by Audyssey XT32 as the second subwoofer.
Bottom line - it is the sum all all the parts: Denon 4311CI equipped with Audyssey MultEq XT32, the clean/powerful output from the Ultras and of course, the accurate and clean bass produced by the XS30.


The Ultras are indeed impressive, there is something in this subwoofer that makes it very special. Here is very reliable, clean, accurate and powerful. The finish is just fantastic. You look at this sub for every angle and you realize there is a reason for its price and that is even before you listen to it.

The PSA it is beautiful, I'm really happy that I decided to pay a bit extra to have the cherry finish. So, it is keeping up with the Ultras. Performance wise, I think is too early to give you a decent/accurate impression. But, what I can tell you is that for its price (two 15" drivers, a reasonable powered amp, nice finish, free shipping, warranty and confidence that you are buying this fine product from Tom and Jim) it is really hard to beat. Best bang for your buck!

Bottom line and after just a couple of days of use............this baby is a keeper!!!!


----------



## Bjski

Hi All,any opinions of XV30F for music only? I am also considering a Rythmik E15 SE. I have an Earthquake MKV-15 in my home theater and the wife complains that's too much bass. she doesn't listen to the 2 channel system which is stuck in the basement. Thanks.


----------



## theJman

Bjski said:


> Hi All,any opinions of XV30F for music only? I am also considering a Rythmik E15 SE. I have an Earthquake MKV-15 in my home theater and the wife complains that's too much bass. she doesn't listen to the 2 channel system which is stuck in the basement. Thanks.


Complaints regarding 'too much' or 'boomy' bass are quite often due to calibration and/or placement issues. Have you been able to get the Earthquake tuned yet? Maybe even try it in another location?


----------



## Bjski

theJman said:


> Complaints regarding 'too much' or 'boomy' bass are quite often due to calibration and/or placement issues. Have you been able to get the Earthquake tuned yet? Maybe even try it in another location?


I have an Onkyo pr-sc 5508 so the home theater has been tuned with Audyssey XT32. If anything the bass is a little lean in the home theater. My wife doesn't like anything above 85db. I have another home theater set up Denon 3311 Audyssey tuned with an older paridigm sub.

I'm looking for a subwoofer to supplement my 2 channel without going broke. At first I thought of building one but with the price of SVS, Power Sound and Rythmik why not purchase. I emailed Tom at Power Sound & he recommended XV30F. I'm looking for a Sub for music only. My current Speaker are rated to 
-2db at 18hz yet there is something missing in the room there located in. I have bass traps that took care of a standing wave and cieling diffusers. I have done the floor crawl moved the speakers to several different locations.

I get more in your chest bass from my home theater system than my 2 channel when I play music.This what I'm 
trying to achieve with my 2 channel system. Don't get me wrong the 2 channel system rocks. I think the low , 7 
feet is killing the bass.

I'm looking for opinions on music. Thought's about the XV30F.
Thanks!


----------



## Bjski

Ment to say 7 foot cieling is killing me and dimension of the room. Some recommendation's for sub's playing music please.


----------



## theJman

Well, in the PSA thread you're more than likely going to get suggestions for... PSA subs. :whistling:

If you have a few different manufacturers on your radar it might be better to start a new thread listing your specifics and what subs you're contemplating. That will help ensure the replies are directed at your needs, irrespective of the manufacturer.


----------



## Saturn94

It's been a little quiet around here. Everyone waiting for Triax news? :heehee:


----------



## steve nn

Saturn94 said:


> It's been a little quiet around here. Everyone waiting for Triax news? :heehee:


Hey sat, I wish I were but as things go I have to bow out this round. That’s one sub I would like to have though. As things are life has happened and other more important issues have arisen which has basically caused me to retire ten years early. So I’ll see how things go this year and the next, then go from there. It’s all good, I have have plenty of sub options as things are. 

I’m glad for you though, and look forward to your impression once it’s landed. What finish did you say you were going with again?


----------



## Saturn94

steve nn said:


> Hey sat, I wish I were but as things go I have to bow out this round. That’s one sub I would like to have though. As things are life has happened and other more important issues have arisen which has basically caused me to retire ten years early. So I’ll see how things go this year and the next, then go from there. It’s all good, I have have plenty of sub options as things are.
> 
> I’m glad for you though, and look forward to your impression once it’s landed. What finish did you say you were going with again?


Sounds like you had to retire before you were ready; sorry to hear that.  Life does tend to throw us curve balls at times.

I'd love to be able to retire early, but realistically it'll probably be another 10 years......sigh.

I'm looking forward to hearing what the Triax offers. Normally I wouldn't go for a new/yet to be released model, but Tom didn't steer me wrong when I bought my SVS sub from him, so I trust my experience will be the same this time. My system is in the living room, appearence matters, so I ordered the Cordovan Cherry. I figured it would give it more the appearence of a nice piece of furniture.


----------



## steve nn

Yeah sometimes those curve balls are a big blessing in disguise fortunately. Auh you sure don’t need to worry about what the Triax has to offer. You have noticed the +- haven't you? That thing is going to rock!.. not even considering the projected SQ. That’s right you went with the Cordovan Cherry, very nice! that's my first choice also. Anyway do you have it all figured out on where you’re going to place it? I have no doubt it’s a proven placement in the past.



> I figured it would give it more the appearence of a nice piece of furniture.


Yes I would think so. I have always thought it would look nice with a nice shiney black top also.


----------



## Saturn94

steve nn said:


> Yeah sometimes those curve balls are a big blessing in disguise fortunately. Auh you sure don’t need to worry about what the Triax has to offer. You have noticed the +- haven't you? That thing is going to rock!.. not even considering the projected SQ. That’s right you went with the Cordovan Cherry, very nice! that's my first choice also. Anyway do you have it all figured out on where you’re going to place it? I have no doubt it’s a proven placement in the past.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes I would think so. I have always thought it would look nice with a nice shiney black top also.


The only place the Triax will fit is in the front left corner where my current sub resides. Fortunately, I've been able to confirm with REW this happens to be the best available location. Got lucky I guess. There are a couple of narrow nulls at the LP, but the seem narrow enough not to be noticed when playing music and movies. Once I see how the Triax measures in that location (should be very similar), I'll probably try a miniDSP to smooth out the response a bit (my pre/pro lacks any room correction software).


----------



## steve nn

Saturn94 said:


> The only place the Triax will fit is in the front left corner where my current sub resides. Fortunately, I've been able to confirm with REW this happens to be the best available location. Got lucky I guess. There are a couple of narrow nulls at the LP, but the seem narrow enough not to be noticed when playing music and movies. Once I see how the Triax measures in that location (should be very similar), I'll probably try a miniDSP to smooth out the response a bit (my pre/pro lacks any room correction software).


Sweet! sounds like you’re all set for the big dog then. I definitely agree on the narrow nulls, if you have to put up with a null it's not even noticeable. So you have a old-time p/p too. lol I have a old denon that’s the same way, I find it hard to part with since I perceive it to do so well and hey! subwoofer play cost’s $$. :help: me..


----------



## Saturn94

steve nn said:


> Sweet! sounds like you’re all set for the big dog then. I definitely agree on the narrow nulls, if you have to put up with a null it's not even noticeable. So you have a old-time p/p too. lol I have a old denon that’s the same way, I find it hard to part with since I perceive it to do so well and hey! subwoofer play cost’s $$. :help: me..


I still love my Anthem AVM20 pre/pro and have no plans to replace it any time soon. The flexibility it offers has easily kept up with my changing system.....not to mention it sounds great.


----------



## steve nn

Saturn94 said:


> I still love my Anthem AVM20 pre/pro and have no plans to replace it any time soon. The flexibility it offers has easily kept up with my changing system.....not to mention it sounds great.


Yikes! I just checked out your AVM-20 and I wouldn’t consider getting rid of it either. That’s quite a receiver you have going for you sat, very nice indeed!


----------



## Reefdvr27

Saturn94 said:


> It's been a little quiet around here. Everyone waiting for Triax news? :heehee:


The only news I want to hear is that my two Triax's have shipped!! :bigsmile:


----------



## Saturn94

Reefdvr27 said:


> The only news I want to hear is that my two Triax's have shipped!! :bigsmile:


Me too! :woohoo:


----------



## B- one

Reefdvr27 said:


> The only news I want to hear is that my two Triax's have shipped!! :bigsmile:


Hopefully your homeowners insurance is up to date. 2 of those things could cause problems.


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Jim and I are going to put a little effort into expanding our reach via social media. If you have time, please "like" us on facebook. Well, "like" us if you do "like us". Otherwise, check the " I can take or leave them" option.

We will be posting several updates/blogs weekly and we also intend to use facebook for news announcements, production updates, and even some contests in the future. 

www.facebook.com/powersoundaudio.com

Thanks!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Jim and I are going to put a little effort into expanding our reach via social media. If you have time, please "like" us on facebook. Well, "like" us if you do "like us". Otherwise, check the " I can take or leave them" option.
> 
> We will be posting several updates/blogs weekly and we also intend to use facebook for news announcements, production updates, and even some contests in the future.
> 
> www.facebook.com/powersoundaudio.com
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Thanks for the heads up. Don't forget some of us don't use Facebook, so will you also be posting the same updates on your website?


----------



## Tom V.

The plan is to hit fb, twitter, youtube, and our own blogs simultaneously with most updates. Occasionally we may post an update only on one of the above as a "thank you" for anyone who liked/follows us. Then, after a few hours we'll share it to all accounts. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> The plan is to hit fb, twitter, youtube, and our own blogs simultaneously with most updates. Occasionally we may post an update only on one of the above as a "thank you" for anyone who liked/follows us. Then, after a few hours we'll share it to all accounts.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Thanks. 

Maybe one day I'll catch up and give those new fangled social network things a try. lddude:


----------



## Reefdvr27

B- one said:


> Hopefully your homeowners insurance is up to date. 2 of those things could cause problems.


LOL, yeah I know. I have dual XV-30's now and they have the walls shaking. The other night, I was playing some music and fairly loud and I went out front for a minute and I could hear all the gutters vibrating to the tone of the music. I got a little closer and could tell what song was playing :bigsmile: I was going to run a video and see if anyone could get the name of the song from the vibrating gutter.  Something only us maniacs could appreciate.


----------



## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> The plan is to hit fb, twitter, youtube, and our own blogs simultaneously with most updates. Occasionally we may post an update only on one of the above as a "thank you" for anyone who liked/follows us. Then, after a few hours we'll share it to all accounts.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


I'm looking forward to a Triax update.  Hopefully the drivers are on track for on time delivery. :T


----------



## Saturn94

It's awful quiet here.....everyone holding their breath for the next Triax update? :scratchchin:

I know I keep checking the website for any updates....lol.


----------



## raynist

I am sure Tom will update us all as soon as there is a change in the status as I know he is anxious to get these shipped. 

Until then I would assume there is no update.


----------



## Norcuron

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs/news/8848365-triax-update


----------



## nicktenn

Wow, it's nice to see a company be so transparent. Respect. As a guy who's just now revisiting the AV game, I'm curious to know if any future (lower end) products will also have Fi drivers? I was dead set on getting them for car audio until I sort of outgrew that hobby.


----------



## cavchameleon

That link makes it pretty clear - nice to know they are up-front with what is going on and I'm sure it will be worth it for those on the waiting list.


----------



## Saturn94

Norcuron said:


> http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs/news/8848365-triax-update



Waaaaaa! :crying:

Not the news we wanted to hear. Hopefully in the end it will turn out to be a good thing overall as it sounds like the new driver will be even better. raying:


----------



## jbrown15

I'm sure some guys will be a little bummed out with the extra delay on their pre-ordered Triax subs but I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. On the plus side it sounds like the Triax subs will be even better with a improved driver so sometimes things workout for the better.


----------



## steve nn

jbrown15 said:


> I'm sure some guys will be a little bummed out with the extra delay on their pre-ordered Triax subs but I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. On the plus side it sounds like the Triax subs will be even better with a improved driver so sometimes things workout for the better.



Yes I think so also. It’s much better this happen now rather than down the road when everything is already rolling. It’ll wined up being a better start albeit be late with the quality of the driver being even better.


----------



## Saturn94

steve nn said:


> Yes I think so also. It’s much better this happen now rather than down the road when everything is already rolling. It’ll wined up being a better start albeit be late with the quality of the driver being even better.


Good point. Let's hope things will go smoother for Tom and Jim now.


----------



## Reefdvr27

jbrown15 said:


> I'm sure some guys will be a little bummed out with the extra delay on their pre-ordered Triax subs but I'm sure it'll be worth the wait. On the plus side it sounds like the Triax subs will be even better with a improved driver so sometimes things workout for the better.


With out a doubt I am bummed however, I know Tom and Jim are bummed out as well. I applaud them for doing what it takes to get the orders filled. It is not an easy thing to do, especially in three weeks.


----------



## Saturn94

Reefdvr27 said:


> With out a doubt I am bummed however, I know Tom and Jim are bummed out as well. I applaud them for doing what it takes to get the orders filled. It is not an easy thing to do, especially in three weeks.


Yep. They won't get much rest any time soon. Tom mentioned to me that business has exploded lately.


----------



## jbrown15

Saturn94 said:


> Yep. They won't get much rest any time soon. Tom mentioned to me that business has exploded lately.


Yeah Tom has told me that basically all of 2013 has been a huge whirl wind, and just when they think things are going to slow down it gets worse!!..lol

Its great to see though, two guys that in my opinion really do deserve all of the praise and rewards of a lot of hard work!


----------



## Tom V.

Saturn94 said:


> Good point. Let's hope things will go smoother for Tom and Jim now.



Thanks to all for the kudos. 

We were very fortunate to have such a good relationship with Scott. I can still remember getting 24 drivers at a time from him back in the 1990s when I made my first order(s) from him! I doubt we could have made this happen with any other vendor in the same time frame. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Saturn94

Just in case anyone missed this update posted in the Triax give away thread;

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs/news/9104309-new-triax-driver


----------



## raynist

So the triax is going to weigh 240lbs!!!

That is crazy! I saw in another thread someone talking about using furniture slider to move these around. I think I will do the same. With my XV15's I would just pick them up and move them. With my PB12+/2's at 160lbs I would flip them on their sides and slide them. I don't think that will be possible since the triax has drivers on all sides, unless I can do this on one of he short sides between drivers.


----------



## Saturn94

raynist said:


> So the triax is going to weigh 240lbs!!!
> 
> That is crazy! I saw in another thread someone talking about using furniture slider to move these around. I think I will do the same. With my XV15's I would just pick them up and move them. With my PB12+/2's at 160lbs I would flip them on their sides and slide them. I don't think that will be possible since the triax has drivers on all sides, unless I can do this on one of he short sides between drivers.


I'm definately going to have to try sliders.

I forget which brand it was, but there's another ID company that includes sliders with their heavy subs. Perhaps Jim and Tom might look into doing the same for the Triax?


----------



## theJman

raynist said:


> So the triax is going to weigh 240lbs!!!


The PSA website says 190lbs -- which is still really heavy -- but a lot less than 240. Where are you seeing that mentioned?


----------



## steve nn

theJman said:


> The PSA website says 190lbs -- which is still really heavy -- but a lot less than 240. Where are you seeing that mentioned?


That’s what I come up with. Maybe the site hasn’t been updated or a type-o happened somewhere?? It’s going to be a nice sub regardless.


----------



## Saturn94

theJman said:


> The PSA website says 190lbs -- which is still really heavy -- but a lot less than 240. Where are you seeing that mentioned?


Tom posted this in the PSA give away thread:



> A bit better in several areas---which shouldn't be a surprise as it costs(and weighs) 50-60% more.
> 
> I'd like to say it is a "day/night" upgrade but our original design was really quite good. Once to get to this level of performance improvements tend to be incremental. The motor is much larger which allowed us to eek out a little more efficiency. It took a few rounds of mods (voice coil, suspension tweaks) but we were also able to keep the native FR closer to target. So less DSP massaging is needed and high level compression improves slightly.
> 
> So the good news is the overall performance of the Triax is improved in several key areas. The bad news is the Triax weight goes from 190(ish) to 230(ish).
> 
> Jim and I will revisit the pricing structure on the Triax once all the Pre-orders are shipped. Our costs have gone up quite a bit due to the new driver design and as much as I hate to say it...there could be a price increase in the near future.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio
> 
> 
> 
> Read more: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...nd-audio-triax-giveaway-10.html#ixzz2f4iM0cBm


Note the part where he mentions the increase in weight due to the heavier drivers.


----------



## theJman

That suggests the drivers are 12-15lbs more each? Wonder if PSA had to increase the baffle in order to handle what must be one very heavy driver. The Triax is likely to be an impressive beast.


----------



## steve nn

theJman said:


> That suggests the drivers are 12-15lbs more each? Wonder if PSA had to increase the baffle in order to handle what must be one very heavy driver. The Triax is likely to be an impressive beast.


I would think most likely not? but it might affect in what PSA uses to fasten the driver to the baffle though?


----------



## Saturn94

theJman said:


> That suggests the drivers are 12-15lbs more each? Wonder if PSA had to increase the baffle in order to handle what must be one very heavy driver. The Triax is likely to be an impressive beast.


Interesting point about the cabinets. For Jim and Tom's sake I hope not since as I understood from Tom they already have the cabinets ready to go to fill existing pre orders.


----------



## steve nn

Saturn94 said:


> Interesting point about the cabinets. For Jim and Tom's sake I hope not since as I understood from Tom they already have the cabinets ready to go to fill existing pre orders.




I once looked inside a PSA sub and this is what I saw. Is that what Tom looks like?


----------



## Saturn94

steve nn said:


> I once looked inside a PSA sub and this is what I saw. Is that what Tom looks like?



Hey, tell him to get back to work! We're still waiting for our subs!


----------



## Reefdvr27

Getting closer. Should be getting or Triax's by the end of the month!!


----------



## jbrown15

Reef, what are the dimensions again for the theatre you're going to be building? And are you still considering going with Quad Triax's eventually?


----------



## Saturn94

Reefdvr27 said:


> Getting closer. Should be getting or Triax's by the end of the month!!


One more week......hopefully the next update will be shipping announcements. :woohoo:


----------



## jbrown15

Does anyone know how many Triax subs were sold under the pre-order pricing? I really was hoping to get a pair but ordering my three LCR speakers from JTR kind of squashed that idea.


----------



## Saturn94

Just in case anyone missed this regarding the current Triax status;




Tom V. said:


> All the steel is being machine today. Driver assembly should begin tomorrow. Assembly --->glue drying--->QC--->box/palletize. Another 48 hours or so. After that, its just the time between Vegas and Ohio..
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


----------



## Saturn94

jbrown15 said:


> Does anyone know how many Triax subs were sold under the pre-order pricing? I really was hoping to get a pair but ordering my three LCR speakers from JTR kind of squashed that idea.


I don't know the total, but I ordered mine in late July and Tom told me I'm about #45 on the waiting list.


----------



## Saturn94

Looks like Triax orders will start shipping the end of this week! 

Here's hoping there's no more unexpected delays.


----------



## NBPk402

Saturn94 said:


> Looks like Triax orders will start shipping the end of this week!
> 
> Here's hoping there's no more unexpected delays.


:hsd: time is coming soon for many people! :T:T


----------



## Saturn94

In case anyone here hasn't seen this on AVS, the price for a wood veneered Triax has gone up to $3749 (previously $2999). Looks like the pre order party is ending.

Of course the good news is this means the Triax should start shipping soon. :yay2:


----------



## Saturn94

I ordered this to help move my Triax into place.

http://www.amazon.com/EZ-Moves-Furn...qid=1381368328&sr=8-2&keywords=Furniture+lift

Any use this before?

Any tips for getting my Triax into the house and into place are appreciated.


----------



## B- one

Saturn94 said:


> I ordered this to help move my Triax into place.
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/EZ-Moves-Furniture-Moving-System/dp/B005FGAP7W/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1381368328&sr=8-2&keywords=Furniture+lift
> 
> Any use this before?
> 
> Any tips for getting my Triax into the house and into place are appreciated.


A set of French doors and a case of beer for your friends. I have always slide stuff on a shipping blanket. Good luck and don't get hurt moving it


----------



## NBPk402

Saturn94 said:


> In case anyone here hasn't seen this on AVS, the price for a wood veneered Triax has gone up to $3749 (previously $2999). Looks like the pre order party is ending.
> 
> Of course the good news is this means the Triax should start shipping soon. :yay2:


Tom told me today they are doing the first round of shipping starting Thursday or Friday of this week. :T


----------



## Saturn94

ellisr63 said:


> Tom told me today they are doing the first round of shipping starting Thursday or Friday of this week. :T


:jump:


----------



## NBPk402

In another Forum... People have been notified the Triax first batch of pre orders are now shipping!


----------



## Saturn94

ellisr63 said:


> In another Forum... People have been notified the Triax first batch of pre orders are now shipping!


It's gotten a bit confusing there. Now there's a post saying the drivers should arrive tomorrow (Tom told me they expected them this past Tuesday) and orders should be ready to ship Monday.

I wish we would get some kind of official word from PSA letting us know what's going on. I hate to bug Tom again about an update as I'm sure he's been inundated with status requests.


----------



## NBPk402

Saturn94 said:


> It's gotten a bit confusing there. Now there's a post saying the drivers should arrive tomorrow (Tom told me they expected them this past Tuesday) and orders should be ready to ship Monday.
> 
> I wish we would get some kind of official word from PSA letting us know what's going on. I hate to bug Tom again about an update as I'm sure he's been inundated with status requests.


Tom emailed me yesterday and said they would be shipping the Triax out on Thursday or Friday at the latest. He said in a later email... "The second production run should occur in about 10-12 days. The third will be about 2 weeks after that. Right now you are right on the edge between the second or third. I won't know for sure until we get most of the way through the second production run exactly how many orders will include in that run."

I would think that if they didn't ship today they will Friday. I can't imagine Tom saying this if they didn't even have the drivers installed yet.


----------



## Saturn94

ellisr63 said:


> Tom emailed me yesterday and said they would be shipping the Triax out on Thursday or Friday at the latest. He said in a later email... "The second production run should occur in about 10-12 days. The third will be about 2 weeks after that. Right now you are right on the edge between the second or third. I won't know for sure until we get most of the way through the second production run exactly how many orders will include in that run."
> 
> I would think that if they didn't ship today they will Friday. I can't imagine Tom saying this if they didn't even have the drivers installed yet.


Thanks for sharing that. There's definitely confusion about whether or not PSA has the drivers yet. No matter, all indications seem to be that shipping should start soon.


----------



## Saturn94

Triax update posted by Tom in another forum:



> Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel
> 
> I think we'll get through most of the pre-orders (120 volt) for May and June today. 208-240v orders will take up much of next week. I'm hoping all orders through end of July will be taken care of in this production run(by mid next week). Second production run is scheduled in about 10-12 days. That will be a much larger "run" and should fulfill all current orders.
> 
> As much as we would love it----we just can't assemble and test 25 Triax a day. I am estimating 8-12 a day when we can completely focus on them(like today).
> 
> If you ordered in May or June you should see tracking info in your inbox late this afternoon. A few toward the end of June may slide until early next week though. We'll do our best!
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


----------



## Norcuron

I received my Triax shipping number. It is finally on the way. I can't wait!!!!


----------



## Saturn94

Norcuron said:


> I received my Triax shipping number. It is finally on the way. I can't wait!!!!


utstanding:

I ordered mine near the end of July, so I'm a bit anxious to see mine makes it in the first production run. :justdontknow:


----------



## NBPk402

Glad to hear that they are shipping!


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Quick heads-up.  All of the XV30f trade-ups are long gone but we still have a few XV30(down firing) left. $1199 for single, $2278 for duals (includes shipping to conus). All have been inspected to ensure they function 100%. Outlet center products tend to go quick so in anyone is "on the fence" please don't wait too long. Thanks.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## bmoney003

Thats awesome how quickly they go!!


----------



## Reefdvr27

Tom V. said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Quick heads-up. All of the XV30f trade-ups are long gone but we still have a few XV30(down firing) left. $1199 for single, $2278 for duals (includes shipping to conus). All have been inspected to ensure they function 100%. Outlet center products tend to go quick so in anyone is "on the fence" please don't wait too long. Thanks.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Two of them were mine. Lightly used for movies in the evening, never abused!! 

Today is the day that my dual Triax's are arriving. Cannot wait. What better way to break them in than with Pacific Rim. :hsd:


----------



## bmoney003

Reefdvr27 said:


> Two of them were mine. Lightly used for movies in the evening, never abused!! Today is the day that my dual Triax's are arriving. Cannot wait. What better way to break them in than with Pacific Rim. :hsd:


Sweet!!! I fully expect pics and full review 

Enjoy


----------



## Reefdvr27

Premature to give any type of review, considering I do not have them placed, level matched or EQ'd, The Triax's are just super smooth, deep bass. Just insane output. I got them hooked up and just ran a quick tester with WOW on BR and just insane. Funny thing is I am running the BR right now at -22 and the house is shanking apart. Tom and Jim built a winner here.


----------



## B- one

Reefdvr27 said:


> Premature to give any type of review, considering I do not have them placed, level matched or EQ'd, The Triax's are just super smooth, deep bass. Just insane output. I got them hooked up and just ran a quick tester with WOW on BR and just insane. Funny thing is I am running the BR right now at -22 and the house is shanking apart. Tom and Jim built a winner here.


Where's the pic's??


----------



## pddufrene

Reefdvr27 said:


> Premature to give any type of review, considering I do not have them placed, level matched or EQ'd, The Triax's are just super smooth, deep bass. Just insane output. I got them hooked up and just ran a quick tester with WOW on BR and just insane. Funny thing is I am running the BR right now at -22 and the house is shanking apart. Tom and Jim built a winner here.


Awesome! So these subs are definitely worth the investment then? If so I may have to look at upgrading soon


----------



## Saturn94

Reefdvr27 said:


> Premature to give any type of review, considering I do not have them placed, level matched or EQ'd, The Triax's are just super smooth, deep bass. Just insane output. I got them hooked up and just ran a quick tester with WOW on BR and just insane. Funny thing is I am running the BR right now at -22 and the house is shanking apart. Tom and Jim built a winner here.


:jump:


----------



## Reefdvr27

B- one said:


> Where's the pic's??


----------



## pddufrene

Reefdvr27 said:


> http://s984.photobucket.com/user/CaribbeanReefDiver/media/IMG_0489_zps681149db.jpg.html
> 
> http://s984.photobucket.com/user/CaribbeanReefDiver/media/IMG_0486_zps05edfb14.jpg.html
> 
> http://s984.photobucket.com/user/CaribbeanReefDiver/media/DSCF2021_zpse8c81374.jpg.html
> 
> http://s984.photobucket.com/user/CaribbeanReefDiver/media/DSCF2023_zps5f46ef77.jpg.html


How do u plan on positioning that thing? Beings that there are woofers on three sides.


----------



## B- one

Wow that looks very light and easy to move. Thanks for the pics!


----------



## Saturn94

This makes my wait even harder! :gah:


----------



## mdanderson

Very nice indeed Reefdvr27. Congrats.


----------



## jamfan76

That's one pretty looking sub there!!


----------



## cavchameleon

Wow, that is one NICE sub!!! I also wonder, like others, how you would position it. Seems like near a wall you would want one of the facets that don't have a driver facing the wall (like the one with the amp so that part is hidden). Keep us posted!!!


----------



## cavchameleon

Also, how about a short video of the drivers with some very low energy material  (and nails holding sheet rock popping out your walls...).


----------



## Saturn94

Triax owner impressions are starting to trickle in. So far reports indicate the Triax is a beast of a sub. :hsd:

I'm waiting to hear if mine will make it in the first production run. Tom said its gonna be real close.

The more reports and pics I see, the more excited I get about getting mine.


----------



## NBPk402

Saturn94 said:


> Triax owner impressions are starting to trickle in. So far reports indicate the Triax is a beast of a sub. :hsd:
> 
> I'm waiting to hear if mine will make it in the first production run. Tom said its gonna be real close.
> 
> The more reports and pics I see, the more excited I get about getting mine.


Tom told me I was borderline 2nd run or 3rd... But then I saw where he said they were going to try and get them all out in the 2nd run! I am keeping my fingers crossed that I make the 2nd run, which should be starting in a little over a week! :T


----------



## raynist

cavchameleon said:


> Also, how about a short video of the drivers with some very low energy material  (and nails holding sheet rock popping out your walls...).


Olympus Has Fallen Monument Scene at -15

http://youtu.be/jNl50L6b0VI


----------



## raynist

Here is a REW measurement of my dual Triax's.


----------



## Saturn94

raynist said:


> Here is a REW measurement of my dual Triax's.


Very nice!

Tom indicated if my Triax makes it in the first round it would be the last one in that run. As he put it, barring any unexpected issues, mine would likely be built this weekend and ship Monday. I guess I'll find out then.

If it wasn't for work I'd actually be looking forward to Monday. :laugh:


----------



## Reefdvr27

Saturn94 said:


> Very nice!
> 
> Tom indicated if my Triax makes it in the first round it would be the last one in that run. As he put it, barring any unexpected issues, mine would likely be built this weekend and ship Monday. I guess I'll find out then.
> 
> If it wasn't for work I'd actually be looking forward to Monday. :laugh:


 Time will fly by. The wait was long, but it is great that everyone is slowly getting their Triax or Triax's  You will have it before you know it. The only thing is that it is far from plug and play. It is almost a day just moving the thing in the house and getting everything set up.


----------



## Reefdvr27

cavchameleon said:


> Wow, that is one NICE sub!!! I also wonder, like others, how you would position it. Seems like near a wall you would want one of the facets that don't have a driver facing the wall (like the one with the amp so that part is hidden). Keep us posted!!!


 Sorry, I have had problems doing videos and honestly I don't know how to post them other than you tube which I do not use. Raynist I believe did a video at another forum. I am moving my Triax's into the front corners tomorrow or Monday. My XV-30's sounded best there and I am hoping the Triax's will also. I really think these will do best in a corner considering their design. I am currently in the early stages of a theater build, so I will be moving them in the near future to their new home, my plan is an AT screen with an acoustic treated room behind.


----------



## Saturn94

Good news! Tom informed me my Triax has been assembled and is going through QC today! Hopefully it will pass with flying colors and be on its way soon! I understand that mine was the last one in the first production run. I just squeaked in under the wire.


----------



## Saturn94

My Triax was delivered yesterday. Dang that box is big! Getting in the house went easier than expected. Planning definately made it go smoothly. Between using a dolly, a ramp to go up one step into the house, and furniture sliders, the three of us had no problem. Probably could have done it with just two of us since there was no dead lifting involved.

Someone mentioned having an idiot moment, well it was my turn. Got the sub in place, hooked everything up, hit the power switch, and nothing! Rechecked everything including the outlet, still nothing! Don't tell me after all this the amp is dead! I was about to pick up the phone to call PSA when my friend noticed that you have to twist the power cable to lock it in the sub. Locked in, it powered right up! Phew....

I just did a quick level setup with my Radio Shack meter and played some song samples. I set the DSP button in (I'll try it out later). Some will remember I was concerned about whether or not I would notice much difference compared to my 16-46PC+. The improvement was immediately apparent! Words that come to mind are tight, clean, smooth, effortless, and deep. Threw in Star Trek Into Darkness (set the sub 3db hot for movies) and watched scene 1.....holly ! I've never heard or felt bass like that in my system, and the drivers were hardly moving! I can't imagine what it would be like if the Triax was really cranked up. I'd seriously be afraid my room would be damaged. I look forward to getting it dialed in and rediscovering my music/movie collection.

The veneer finish is beautiful. It's a bit more visually imposing than I expected, but I'm sure I'll get use to it quickly. Btw, you see in the pic above that I have the amp facing the LP. This is only temporary until I settle on the right amp settings. Once I get it set, I'll turn it around to hide the amp.

For those of you still waiting for yours, be patient, you're in for a treat. . Reminds me of a line I heard in a movie; "...it's big, it's beautiful, and you're gonna love it!"

:banana:


----------



## mdanderson

Congrats. Sounds like a really cool experience with this Triax.


----------



## mdanderson

I just setup my new XV15s in a dual configuration and I am really pleased with the results. Music sounds fantastic with good definition in the bass and plenty of output. Movies sound great as well with good low extension that can really be felt. Good job PSA for a quality product.


----------



## Saturn94

mdanderson said:


> I just setup my new XV15s in a dual configuration and I am really pleased with the results. Music sounds fantastic with good definition in the bass and plenty of output. Movies sound great as well with good low extension that can really be felt. Good job PSA for a quality product.



Sweet! Enjoy!


----------



## mdanderson

Saturn94 said:


> Sweet! Enjoy!


Thank you Saturn94.


----------



## raynist

raynist said:


> Here is a REW measurement of my dual Triax's.


Here is my most recent graph after some minor tweaking:


----------



## Mike0206

That looks pretty nice!!!!


----------



## mdanderson

Very nice indeed raynist. What is your impression of the overall sound of the Triax's?


----------



## mdanderson

I still can't get my XV15s to shut off when I have the power button on auto. It thinks I still have a signal coming through even when I shut off my prepro and my amps. I end up having to manually turn off the subs. Thanks.


----------



## Saturn94

mdanderson said:


> I still can't get my XV15s to shut off when I have the power button on auto. It thinks I still have a signal coming through even when I shut off my prepro and my amps. I end up having to manually turn off the subs. Thanks.


Does the Auto shutoff work if you disconnect the signal cables? If so, I wonder if there's some noise coming through even when the even when the equipment is "off". Btw, most modern equipment isn't really completely "off", just in "standby" mode.

In my setup if I turn the halogen torch lamp on (it has a built in dimmer) that's on the same circuit I can hear a slight buzzing if I put my ear near the tweeter in my mains, even with the equipment "off".

If disconnecting the signal cables doesn't work, then I'd say the problem is with the sub amps. If disconnecting the signal cables does work, then some kind of noise/signal is getting through even with the equipment "off". Either way, I suggest you contact Tom.

The Triax amp lacks an Auto On feature. Tom told me is was fine just to leave the amp on all the time. I thought that would bother me, but frankly I don't think much about it anymore. Maybe one day I'll get one of those power strips that includes a 12v trigger.


----------



## Saturn94

raynist said:


> Here is my most recent graph after some minor tweaking:


Nice!

Here's what I'm getting now from my single Triax after some crossover tweaks and using the single PEQ filter in my processor with an Anti Mode 8033b (1/6th smoothing like yours. Btw, I'm surprised the REW police haven't ticketed you for using smoothing...lol....they did to me!).


----------



## mdanderson

Saturn94 said:


> Does the Auto shutoff work if you disconnect the signal cables? If so, I wonder if there's some noise coming through even when the even when the equipment is "off". Btw, most modern equipment isn't really completely "off", just in "standby" mode.
> 
> In my setup if I turn the halogen torch lamp on (it has a built in dimmer) that's on the same circuit I can hear a slight buzzing if I put my ear near the tweeter in my mains, even with the equipment "off".
> 
> If disconnecting the signal cables doesn't work, then I'd say the problem is with the sub amps. If disconnecting the signal cables does work, then some kind of noise/signal is getting through even with the equipment "off". Either way, I suggest you contact Tom.
> 
> The Triax amp lacks an Auto On feature. Tom told me is was fine just to leave the amp on all the time. I thought that would bother me, but frankly I don't think much about it anymore. Maybe one day I'll get one of those power strips that includes a 12v trigger.


Thanks for the input. I don't know if the Auto shutoff works if I unhook the signal cable because I have not tried that but I really don't want to unhook the cable without turning the amp off first. I did that one time by accident and I got a really loud pop.


----------



## Saturn94

mdanderson said:


> Thanks for the input. I don't know if the Auto shutoff works if I unhook the signal cable because I have not tried that but I really don't want to unhook the cable without turning the amp off first. I did that one time by accident and I got a really loud pop.


Would it work to shut the sub off, then disconnect the cable, then turn the sub back on and wait to see if it will automatically go into standby?


----------



## mdanderson

Saturn94 said:


> Would it work to shut the sub off, then disconnect the cable, then turn the sub back on and wait to see if it will automatically go into standby?


I'll try that. Thanks.


----------



## Saturn94

Merry Christmas!


----------



## Tom V.

mdanderson said:


> Thanks for the input. I don't know if the Auto shutoff works if I unhook the signal cable because I have not tried that but I really don't want to unhook the cable without turning the amp off first. I did that one time by accident and I got a really loud pop.


 Yes, definitely avoid that. Not only could this damage the subwoofer amp it could also have negative effects on the receiver. A good rule of thumb is to never connect/disconnect any wire/cable to any electronic component until you have turned it "off". 

This does remind me of a time I had a high output sub system in my living room and accidentally pulled the cord out while sitting down a foot or so from the stack. I swear the accompanying "burp" sucked half the wind from my lungs.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## TheLaw612

Tom V. said:


> Yes, definitely avoid that. Not only could this damage the subwoofer amp it could also have negative effects on the receiver. A good rule of thumb is to never connect/disconnect any wire/cable to any electronic component until you have turned it "off".
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


I accidentally did this about a month ago and heard a loud pop. I immediately crapped my pants because I thought I just blew my sub but everything seems to be working correctly. 

Tom, is there a way to know/test if anything is wrong even though it sounds like it's working fine?


----------



## mdanderson

Tom V. said:


> Yes, definitely avoid that. Not only could this damage the subwoofer amp it could also have negative effects on the receiver. A good rule of thumb is to never connect/disconnect any wire/cable to any electronic component until you have turned it "off".
> 
> This does remind me of a time I had a high output sub system in my living room and accidentally pulled the cord out while sitting down a foot or so from the stack. I swear the accompanying "burp" sucked half the wind from my lungs.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Thanks Tom.


----------



## Basshead81

Hopefully some avs members will frequent this thread more. AVS banned me for something silly...I am still suprised by it.


----------



## Saturn94

Basshead81 said:


> Hopefully some avs members will frequent this thread more. AVS banned me for something silly...I am still suprised by it.


Ok, I'm dying to ask....why did AVS ban you?


----------



## Basshead81

Saturn94 said:


> Ok, I'm dying to ask....why did AVS ban you?


For getting into a silly debate with another member. I guess it was temporary but I did not know because it did not show up on my mobile device. Not knowing any better I created a new account. So they then perma banned me for creating another account. I disputed telling them I was not trying to create multiple accounts, I was trying to create a new account. Had no Idea, should of read the mile long list of terms and conditions before agreeing to the terms.


----------



## Saturn94

Basshead81 said:


> For getting into a silly debate with another member. I guess it was temporary but I did not know because it did not show up on my mobile device. Not knowing any better I created a new account. So they then perma banned me for creating another account. I disputed telling them I was not trying to create multiple accounts, I was trying to create a new account. Had no Idea, should of read the mile long list of terms and conditions before agreeing to the terms.


Yikes! Seems like they would at least give you a second chance.

Pardon my bad memory, but are you the Basshead with 3 XV15s? I know I've seen another Basshead on AVS as well.


----------



## Basshead81

Saturn94 said:


> Yikes! Seems like they would at least give you a second chance.
> 
> Pardon my bad memory, but are you the Basshead with 3 XV15s? I know I've seen another Basshead on AVS as well.


Yep Basshead81 with 3 XV15's...frequent AVS all the time.


----------



## Saturn94

Basshead81 said:


> Yep Basshead81 with 3 XV15's...frequent AVS all the time.



I've certainly seen some of your posts debating other members, but while the content may ruffle a few feathers, I've not seen anything that would warrant being banned. The moderator must have been having a real bad day!

Btw, I appreciate the feedback you provided when I was sub shopping. Even though I ended up going in a different direction than you recommended , I'm very happy with my single Triax.


----------



## Basshead81

Saturn94 said:


> I've certainly seen some of your posts debating other members, but while the content may ruffle a few feathers, I've not seen anything that would warrant being banned. The moderator must have been having a real bad day!
> 
> Btw, I appreciate the feedback you provided when I was sub shopping. Even though I ended up going in a different direction than you recommended , I'm very happy with my single Triax.


Yea you would think a simple search of my post history would show my participation in the forum. Its not like I just behind a keyboard and Troll. I am a member of 6 different forums and have never been banned for anything.


----------



## Saturn94

Basshead81 said:


> Yea you would think a simple search of my post history would show my participation in the forum. Its not like I just behind a keyboard and Troll. I am a member of 6 different forums and have never been banned for anything.



I did get a warning one time on AVS (and some of my posts were deleted) when I questioned why I wasn't getting a response from a couple of forum sponsors (I was shopping for a TV). I wasn't even saying anything bad about them, just asking why it may be I hadn't received a response to my inquires. Must have been that moderator's other bad day!


----------



## Basshead81

Saturn94 said:


> I did get a warning one time on AVS (and some of my posts were deleted) when I questioned why I wasn't getting a response from a couple of forum sponsors (I was shopping for a TV). I wasn't even saying anything bad about them, just asking why it may be I hadn't received a response to my inquires. Must have been that moderator's other bad day!


Wow that is crazy! Anyway how are you liking the Triax?


----------



## NBPk402

Basshead81 said:


> Hopefully some avs members will frequent this thread more. AVS banned me for something silly...I am still suprised by it.


I didn't know you were banned.


----------



## NBPk402

Basshead81 said:


> Yea you would think a simple search of my post history would show my participation in the forum. Its not like I just behind a keyboard and Troll. I am a member of 6 different forums and have never been banned for anything.


Well I guess you can't say that anymore.


----------



## cr136124

Basshead81 said:


> Hopefully some avs members will frequent this thread more. AVS banned me for something silly...I am still suprised by it.


That sucks! Oh well, welcome to this part of the world!



Basshead81 said:


> Yep Basshead81 with 3 XV15's...frequent AVS all the time.


Dude, I was wondering what happened to you.........:scratch:

Glad to hear you are fine.............banned but fine................sorry, I couldn't resist........:heehee:


----------



## Saturn94

Basshead81 said:


> Wow that is crazy! Anyway how are you liking the Triax?


I'm loving the Triax. . Definately a nice step up from my SVS 16-46PC+ (which I now have up for sale).


----------



## Basshead81

cr136124 said:


> That sucks! Oh well, welcome to this part of the world!
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I was wondering what happened to you.........:scratch:
> 
> Glad to hear you are fine.............banned but fine................sorry, I couldn't resist........:heehee:


Lol...ya I am good. They just sent me a email saying I have to wait 30days.


----------



## Basshead81

Saturn94 said:


> I'm loving the Triax. . Definately a nice step up from my SVS 16-46PC+ (which I'm now have up for sale).


Thats good to know! It would be nice to see one tested by JR some day.


----------



## Basshead81

ellisr63 said:


> Well I guess you can't say that anymore.


That is correct...first time for everything lol. :innocent:


----------



## NBPk402

Basshead81 said:


> That is correct...first time for everything lol. :innocent:


Welcome to the Forum... I liked your posts on the other Forum and I am sure you will have quite a lot to contribute here too. :T


----------



## GusGus748s

Hello everyone. I received my XV15 this past Monday. My current AVR SC-1522-K doesn't have any sub EQ's so I had to mess around with manual settings and a few settings within the AVR to get the most out of my XV15.

I currently got a SPL meter and a Calibrated Dayton EMM-6 microphone. I will be starting to read on how to use REW, and hopefully learn how to use it properly to get the best sound out of my current set up.

So far, I am satisfied with the bass the XV15 is providing, but I'm all for it if I can improve it.


----------



## cr136124

Basshead81 said:


> Lol...ya I am good. They just sent me a email saying I have to wait 30days.


Well, it is not that bad then...........is just 30 days. Is like when your wife is mad at you, and you have to spend the night at the sofa, but eventually you will get back to your bed. 

Not that happened to me, but a friend told me about it............:rofl:


----------



## Basshead81

cr136124 said:


> Well, it is not that bad then...........is just 30 days. Is like when your wife is mad at you, and you have to spend the night at the sofa, but eventually you will get back to your bed.
> 
> Not that happened to me, but a friend told me about it............:rofl:


Lol I have never been on the sofa so this is all new to me. :dontknow:


----------



## Basshead81

GusGus748s said:


> Hello everyone. I received my XV15 this past Monday. My current AVR SC-1522-K doesn't have any sub EQ's so I had to mess around with manual settings and a few settings within the AVR to get the most out of my XV15.
> 
> I currently got a SPL meter and a Calibrated Dayton EMM-6 microphone. I will be starting to read on how to use REW, and hopefully learn how to use it properly to get the best sound out of my current set up.
> 
> So far, I am satisfied with the bass the XV15 is providing, but I'm all for it if I can improve it.


Look forward to seeing your graphs. Post em up when you get a chance and we can go from there.


----------



## cr136124

Basshead81 said:


> Lol I have never been on the sofa so this is all new to me. :dontknow:


Just make sure the sofa is located at your HT and then you are golden. I'm really looking forward for her to tell me "and now go and sleep at the basement". Hard part is going to be try to keep a sad face after she says that...............all the toys are at the basement. :bigsmile:

BTW - folks at AVS are missing you bro!


----------



## billy p

Basshead81 said:


> Lol...ya I am good. They just sent me a email saying I have to wait 30days.


Whew...that's good to know...:heehee: I posted that info over @ AVS...but I thought it was a total ban...good to hear its only 30 days!

I reckon that would still be a bitter pill to swallow. 

Cheers, Bill..


----------



## Saturn94

GusGus748s said:


> Hello everyone. I received my XV15 this past Monday. My current AVR SC-1522-K doesn't have any sub EQ's so I had to mess around with manual settings and a few settings within the AVR to get the most out of my XV15.
> 
> I currently got a SPL meter and a Calibrated Dayton EMM-6 microphone. I will be starting to read on how to use REW, and hopefully learn how to use it properly to get the best sound out of my current set up.
> 
> So far, I am satisfied with the bass the XV15 is providing, but I'm all for it if I can improve it.


Congrats. 


Like you I don't have sub EQ. I found REW helpful in identifying the best sub location and the proper crossover/phase settings.


----------



## needspeed52

Sorry to hear that Bass81, I enjoyed your input quite a bit at AVS, now just do the same here, all is good my friend, good to hear from you again. Hey Billy P, nice to hear from you also my friend. :T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## NBPk402

cr136124 said:


> Just make sure the sofa is located at your HT and then you are golden. I'm really looking forward for her to tell me "and now go and sleep at the basement". Hard part is going to be try to keep a sad face after she says that...............all the toys are at the basement. :bigsmile:
> 
> BTW - folks at AVS are missing you bro!


Our Home Theater is in our family room... I have no problem sleeping on the couch. :bigsmile:


----------



## cr136124

ellisr63 said:


> Our Home Theater is in our family room... I have no problem sleeping on the couch. :bigsmile:



:rofl:


Cool thing is they think that is a punishment to us, and in reality is a reward! 

In my case happens usually on Tuesdays..............cough, bluray releases, cough......:devil:


----------



## billy p

needspeed52 said:


> Sorry to hear that Bass81, I enjoyed your input quite a bit at AVS, now just do the same here, all is good my friend, good to hear from you again. Hey Billy P, nice to hear from you also my friend. :T
> Cheers Jeff


Thanks JN...how is your health BTW...I hope everything as alright...since you haven't been posting much lately. Fyi...I am really enjoying the XS30 and I still have the SB13u in the mix. I've being hanging out at HTS because of the upcoming 3000.00 speaker evaluation...fingers crossed that Dave can come through with a set of RAAL Towers for this event. 

My guess you're in audio nirvana with your ARX's and Traix set up....I don't see myself going that route(Traix) but adding a 2nd XS30 might be in the cards...:heehee:

Take care my friend....


----------



## Basshead81

cr136124 said:


> Just make sure the sofa is located at your HT and then you are golden. I'm really looking forward for her to tell me "and now go and sleep at the basement". Hard part is going to be try to keep a sad face after she says that...............all the toys are at the basement. :bigsmile:
> 
> BTW - folks at AVS are missing you bro!





billy p said:


> Whew...that's good to know...:heehee: I posted that info over @ AVS...but I thought it was a total ban...good to hear its only 30 days!
> 
> I reckon that would still be a bitter pill to swallow.
> 
> Cheers, Bill..





needspeed52 said:


> Sorry to hear that Bass81, I enjoyed your input quite a bit at AVS, now just do the same here, all is good my friend, good to hear from you again. Hey Billy P, nice to hear from you also my friend. :T
> Cheers Jeff


Hey tell the guys there I miss not being on the forum already...also make note to let the member that suggested to create another account and jump back in is the reason why I almost got perma banned. They were only going to give me a 3 day suspension but then I registered as BozoBass and was perma banned. I pleaded for forgiveness and the mods said to petition in 30days. I did not know you could not create another account...its frowned upon heavily. Just a heads up to all!!


----------



## gorb

While most forums frown upon banned people creating new accounts, it probably didn't help that your second account's name was mocking that of another poster.


----------



## Basshead81

gorb said:


> While most forums frown upon banned people creating new accounts, it probably didn't help that your second account's name was mocking that of another poster.


I doubt that had anything to do with it...but at this point is does not matter. Lets continue on with some constructive conversation instead of going there. Its over and done, lesson learned, life goes on.


----------



## needspeed52

billy p said:


> Thanks JN...how is your health BTW...I hope everything as alright...since you haven't been posting much lately. Fyi...I am really enjoying the XS30 and I still have the SB13u in the mix. I've being hanging out at HTS because of the upcoming 3000.00 speaker evaluation...fingers crossed that Dave can come through with a set of RAAL Towers for this event.
> 
> My guess you're in audio nirvana with your ARX's and Traix set up....I don't see myself going that route(Traix) but adding a 2nd XS30 might be in the cards...:heehee:
> 
> Take care my friend....


Thanks Billy for asking, unfortunately I'm scheduled for two surgeries, need total hip replacements for both. All kinds of testing going on with regards to the surgery, cardiologist, respiratory and PCP. I'm doing well tho in spite of these drawbacks, I'm here today talking to you and that's a good thing. I strongly advice your decision to go with the dual XS30s, you'll be thoroughly impressed, I was. That would be nice to see the STs in the evaluation, hopefully Dave will come through, he should, I'd be very interested to see how they fair with the other speakers in this class. Yeah I just bought three of the ARX A2rx-cs, I'm going to see how they compare to the 340SEs. I have so many projects going on right now with my rigs, it's frustrating because of my limited mobility, didn't realize how bad my hips were until I got off the heavy duty pain meds, hopefully soon I can put this behind me and get on with my life. Take care my friend and thanks for the concern and kind words.
Best Regards, JN :sn:


----------



## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> Hey tell the guys there I miss not being on the forum already...also make note to let the member that suggested to create another account and jump back in is the reason why I almost got perma banned. They were only going to give me a 3 day suspension but then I registered as BozoBass and was perma banned. I pleaded for forgiveness and the mods said to petition in 30days. I did not know you could not create another account...its frowned upon heavily. Just a heads up to all!!


BOZOBASS, that like Gorb said surely didn't help matters.:scratch:


----------



## jbrown15

Basshead81 said:


> Hey tell the guys there I miss not being on the forum already...also make note to let the member that suggested to create another account and jump back in is the reason why I almost got perma banned. They were only going to give me a 3 day suspension but then I registered as BozoBass and was perma banned. I pleaded for forgiveness and the mods said to petition in 30days. I did not know you could not create another account...its frowned upon heavily. Just a heads up to all!!


So in 30days will do a petition and I'm sure they'll allow you back on the forums. People tend to forgive and forget as time goes on. I guess you just need to stop allowing two forum members in particular to get under your skin!...lol 

Like you said live and learn right. :T


----------



## mdanderson

Welcome Basshead81 to HTS. I have gotten some pretty useful info from your posts at AVS even though I don't currently use my EmoQ or REW. My dual XV15s do sound really good though for music and movies. I have them placed nearfield halfway down the side walls and it works really well.

I watched the Bond film, Casino Royale with Daniel Craig last night and I could really feel the bass at the end of the movie when the old building is collapsing.


----------



## Basshead81

jbrown15 said:


> So in 30days will do a petition and I'm sure they'll allow you back on the forums. People tend to forgive and forget as time goes on. I guess you just need to stop allowing two forum members in particular to get under your skin!...lol
> 
> Like you said live and learn right. :T


Meh those 2 should not get away with some of the stuff they post imo...and what I said was not really that bad I didn't think. But yes I will just use the ignore feature and forget about it. However it is hard to ignore somebody that calls your subs "throw away".


----------



## Basshead81

mdanderson said:


> Welcome Basshead81 to HTS. I have gotten some pretty useful info from your posts at AVS even though I don't currently use my EmoQ or REW. My dual XV15s do sound really good though for music and movies. I have them placed nearfield halfway down the side walls and it works really well.
> 
> I watched the Bond film, Casino Royale with Daniel Craig last night and I could really feel the bass at the end of the movie when the old building is collapsing.


That is good to know! I believe you had a PB12+ so its nice to hear the XV15's sound good to you!!


----------



## jbrown15

Basshead81 said:


> Meh those 2 should not get away with some of the stuff they post imo...and what I said was not really that bad I didn't think. But yes I will just use the ignore feature and forget about it. However it is hard to ignore somebody that calls your subs "throw away".


I totally hear you on that one buddy, but whatcha going to do right. No point in worry what one or two nay sayers have to say about products they've never heard right. 

Bosso knows his stuff but honestly some of his posts come off as "this sub is terrible, but check out the amazing subs that I build" And even saying that I can't really fault him because like I said he really knows his stuff and I find things that you read over the internet can come off not really the way you intended them too. 

Anyways we'll move on and hopefully you'll be allowed back at some point. HTS forum seems pretty good too, it just doesn't seem to get as much traffic.


----------



## pddufrene

Basshead81 said:


> Meh those 2 should not get away with some of the stuff they post imo...and what I said was not really that bad I didn't think. But yes I will just use the ignore feature and forget about it. However it is hard to ignore somebody that calls your subs "throw away".


I agree, I got booted from audioholics a while back from arguing with the same individual you got into it with. Lol
This is a excellent forum to be part of to thou, Sonnie and the guys hear are great people. You'll enjoy it here as well!


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all, 2 quick comments,

1)be careful in not allowing yourself to get drawn into a "tit for tat" match with any forum "troll"(on other forums)The SOP is often to bait you into trading "barbs" and then they will quickly PM all their "merry band" and have everyone send multiple complaints to the moderators. End result-----you end up with a "ban" and then they move on to the next victim. Eventually, anyone who disagrees with their POV is removed from the discussions. 

2)As mentioned, Sonnie and his mods run things a bit differently here. Disagreements? Fine. Thinly veiled personal attacks? See ya around.. To this end, I would suggest we let the *junk* on other forums stay on those forums. Let's refocus on Power Sound Audio products, experience, suggestions, etc.

I will tell you Jim and I are making inventory logistics to be be one of the areas we focus on improving for 2014 We are still in "back order" status for all Power-X orders....with some folks waiting 3+ weeks at the moment. We do have one small shipment of 15" power-X drivers inbound, due to arrive in 1-2 business days. A *much* larger shipment of drivers will arrive 3-5 business days later. This latter shipment will fulfill all of the backs orders and then some. 

Our speaker designs are progressing in the typical fits/spurts. I can tell you this much----high efficiency, true extension down to (at least) 80hz, very accurate, and able to play *loudly* without audible signs of compression. In short, a great match for our subwoofers!

There are a few other surprises in store for the first half of 2014 as well. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## jbrown15

Tom V. said:


> Our speaker designs are progressing in the typical fits/spurts. I can tell you this much----high efficiency, true extension down to (at least) 80hz, very accurate, and able to play *loudly* without audible signs of compression. In short, a great match for our subwoofers!
> 
> There are a few other surprises in store for the first half of 2014 as well.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


That sounds awesome Tom, I would love to see you guys offer a HE style home theater speaker that only plays down to a true 70-80hz and allow your subs to pick up the rest. IMO this is a much better option then trying to play the game of making a great speaker to play full range. Let the subs to the heavy lifting and focus on 70hz and up.


----------



## GusGus748s

Basshead81 said:


> Look forward to seeing your graphs. Post em up when you get a chance and we can go from there.





Saturn94 said:


> Congrats.
> 
> 
> Like you I don't have sub EQ. I found REW helpful in identifying the best sub location and the proper crossover/phase settings.


I will post the graphs as soon as I can figure out how to do it. 

As far as placement I'm pretty limited due to WAF. So, I'm hoping the current place it's the best.


----------



## billy p

Tom V. said:


> Hi all, 2 quick comments,
> 
> 1)be careful in not allowing yourself to get drawn into a "tit for tat" match with any forum "troll"(on other forums)The SOP is often to bait you into trading "barbs" and then they will quickly PM all their "merry band" and have everyone send multiple complaints to the moderators. End result-----you end up with a "ban" and then they move on to the next victim. Eventually, anyone who disagrees with their POV is removed from the discussions.
> 
> 2)As mentioned, Sonnie and his mods run things a bit differently here. Disagreements? Fine. Thinly veiled personal attacks? See ya around.. To this end, I would suggest we let the *junk* on other forums stay on those forums. Let's refocus on Power Sound Audio products, experience, suggestions, etc.
> 
> I will tell you Jim and I are making inventory logistics to be be one of the areas we focus on improving for 2014 We are still in "back order" status for all Power-X orders....with some folks waiting 3+ weeks at the moment. We do have one small shipment of 15" power-X drivers inbound, due to arrive in 1-2 business days. A *much* larger shipment of drivers will arrive 3-5 business days later. This latter shipment will fulfill all of the backs orders and then some.
> 
> Our speaker designs are progressing in the typical fits/spurts. I can tell you this much----high efficiency, true extension down to (at least) 80hz, very accurate, and able to play *loudly* without audible signs of compression. In short, a great match for our subwoofers!
> 
> There are a few other surprises in store for the first half of 2014 as well.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Tom you are so right...I RECEIVED an INFRACTION notice this morning....I'll just stick to the owners threads sub forums and try to help people. I received a few PM already in asking for my opinion on the SB13 and XS30...I basically like both very much but for different reasons. For my current needs the XS30 was the right sub. Good luck on your other business undertakings...

Re, Bill


----------



## GusGus748s

Tom V. said:


> Hi all, 2 quick comments,
> 
> 1)be careful in not allowing yourself to get drawn into a "tit for tat" match with any forum "troll"(on other forums)The SOP is often to bait you into trading "barbs" and then they will quickly PM all their "merry band" and have everyone send multiple complaints to the moderators. End result-----you end up with a "ban" and then they move on to the next victim. Eventually, anyone who disagrees with their POV is removed from the discussions.
> 
> 2)As mentioned, Sonnie and his mods run things a bit differently here. Disagreements? Fine. Thinly veiled personal attacks? See ya around.. To this end, I would suggest we let the *junk* on other forums stay on those forums. Let's refocus on Power Sound Audio products, experience, suggestions, etc.
> 
> I will tell you Jim and I are making inventory logistics to be be one of the areas we focus on improving for 2014 We are still in "back order" status for all Power-X orders....with some folks waiting 3+ weeks at the moment. We do have one small shipment of 15" power-X drivers inbound, due to arrive in 1-2 business days. A *much* larger shipment of drivers will arrive 3-5 business days later. This latter shipment will fulfill all of the backs orders and then some.
> 
> Our speaker designs are progressing in the typical fits/spurts. I can tell you this much----high efficiency, true extension down to (at least) 80hz, very accurate, and able to play *loudly* without audible signs of compression. In short, a great match for our subwoofers!
> 
> There are a few other surprises in store for the first half of 2014 as well.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Well put. I'm saving up to add another XV15. Even though, I had to wait longer than expected, I'm very satisfied with it. I'm glad I was patient. :T


----------



## Basshead81

jbrown15 said:


> I totally hear you on that one buddy, but whatcha going to do right. No point in worry what one or two nay sayers have to say about products they've never heard right.
> 
> Bosso knows his stuff but honestly some of his posts come off as "this sub is terrible, but check out the amazing subs that I build" And even saying that I can't really fault him because like I said he really knows his stuff and I find things that you read over the internet can come off not really the way you intended them too.
> 
> Anyways we'll move on and hopefully you'll be allowed back at some point. HTS forum seems pretty good too, it just doesn't seem to get as much traffic.


I actually liked Bosso until he called my subs "throw away" then the gloves came off. Oh well I am ignoring those 2 for now on.



pddufrene said:


> I agree, I got booted from audioholics a while back from arguing with the same individual you got into it with. Lol
> This is a excellent forum to be part of to thou, Sonnie and the guys hear are great people. You'll enjoy it here as well!


Wow I am suprised Audioholics booted you...I do like this forum alot, hopefully we can get more traffic here 



Tom V. said:


> Hi all, 2 quick comments,
> 
> 1)be careful in not allowing yourself to get drawn into a "tit for tat" match with any forum "troll"(on other forums)The SOP is often to bait you into trading "barbs" and then they will quickly PM all their "merry band" and have everyone send multiple complaints to the moderators. End result-----you end up with a "ban" and then they move on to the next victim. Eventually, anyone who disagrees with their POV is removed from the discussions.
> 
> 2)As mentioned, Sonnie and his mods run things a bit differently here. Disagreements? Fine. Thinly veiled personal attacks? See ya around.. To this end, I would suggest we let the *junk* on other forums stay on those forums. Let's refocus on Power Sound Audio products, experience, suggestions, etc.
> 
> I will tell you Jim and I are making inventory logistics to be be one of the areas we focus on improving for 2014 We are still in "back order" status for all Power-X orders....with some folks waiting 3+ weeks at the moment. We do have one small shipment of 15" power-X drivers inbound, due to arrive in 1-2 business days. A *much* larger shipment of drivers will arrive 3-5 business days later. This latter shipment will fulfill all of the backs orders and then some.
> 
> Our speaker designs are progressing in the typical fits/spurts. I can tell you this much----high efficiency, true extension down to (at least) 80hz, very accurate, and able to play *loudly* without audible signs of compression. In short, a great match for our subwoofers!
> 
> There are a few other surprises in store for the first half of 2014 as well.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Great advice Tom!! I learned this the hard way but oh well....look forward to seeing your new speaker line!! :hsd:


----------



## Blackmambakila

Don't worry Basshead, we scared them away with our subs, they went running!!!!! :yikes:


----------



## Saturn94

Blackmambakila said:


> Don't worry Basshead, we scared them away with our subs, they went running!!!!! :yikes:


Hey Black. Ordered that 3rd Triax yet? 

Welcome to HTS.


----------



## NBPk402

Blackmambakila said:


> Don't worry Basshead, we scared them away with our subs, they went running!!!!! :yikes:


About time you come over here, Black! :T


----------



## jbrown15

Saturn94 said:


> Hey Black. Ordered that 3rd Triax yet?
> 
> Welcome to HTS.


I think he's saving up for some JTR speakers now!...lol :T


----------



## Basshead81

Blackmambakila said:


> Don't worry Basshead, we scared them away with our subs, they went running!!!!! :yikes:


Glad to see ya here BMK!! You might want to hold off and check out the new PSA speaker line before ordering them JTR's....just sayin.


----------



## NBPk402

Basshead81 said:


> Glad to see ya here BMK!! You might want to hold off and check out the new PSA speaker line before ordering them JTR's....just sayin.


Yeah, I'm thinking a complete PSA setup will be awesome if their speakers are anything like their subs are (which I bet they will be).


----------



## jbrown15

Basshead81 said:


> Glad to see ya here BMK!! You might want to hold off and check out the new PSA speaker line before ordering them JTR's....just sayin.


Very true.


----------



## mdanderson

ellisr63 said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking a complete PSA setup will be awesome if their speakers are anything like their subs are (which I bet they will be).


Yes, I am anxious to hear their new speaker lineup as well.


----------



## Basshead81

mdanderson said:


> Yes, I am anxious to hear their new speaker lineup as well.


I wonder if Tom will offer multiple finish options for the speaker line? That would be pretty sweet.


----------



## jbrown15

Basshead81 said:


> I wonder if Tom will offer multiple finish options for the speaker line? That would be pretty sweet.


I would have to assume that if he didn't from the start that they would offer some veneered finishes eventually just like they have with the sub line up. I'm sure it'll be will thought out before they release anything.


----------



## Basshead81

jbrown15 said:


> I would have to assume that if he didn't from the start that they would offer some veneered finishes eventually just like they have with the sub line up. I'm sure it'll be will thought out before they release anything.


Yes probably so...btw how is your project coming along? You can PM me if you like


----------



## needspeed52

Hey Guys,
I came in late on this thread. When did Jim and Tom decide to make speakers, any idea if they will be monitors or towers or both. I did see Tom's reply about true 70-80Hz extension, that's perfectly fine with me. Thanks to all who respond.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## steve nn

Hey is that old basshead over here? :rubeyes: :T


----------



## Basshead81

steve nn said:


> Hey is that old basshead over here? :rubeyes: :T


Yessir :sn:


----------



## jbrown15

needspeed52 said:


> Hey Guys,
> I came in late on this thread. When did Jim and Tom decide to make speakers, any idea if they will be monitors or towers or both. I did see Tom's reply about true 70-80Hz extension, that's perfectly fine with me. Thanks to all who respond.
> Cheers Jeff


I believe its been in the works for at least 6-8 months. I still think they are a little ways away from being ready to release anything though. I would mind seeing them release some HE surrounds that I could use with my JTR's :jump:


----------



## needspeed52

jbrown15 said:


> I believe its been in the works for at least 6-8 months. I still think they are a little ways away from being ready to release anything though. I would mind seeing them release some HE surrounds that I could use with my JTR's :jump:


That would be good, what are you using now?
Cheers Jeff


----------



## jbrown15

needspeed52 said:


> That would be good, what are you using now?
> Cheers Jeff


Right now I'm running two pairs of Axiom Audio QS8's, they've actually been really great for surrounds. Personally I wouldn't buy anything else that they make as far as speakers or subs go but the QS series are really nice for surrounds.


----------



## needspeed52

jbrown15 said:


> Right now I'm running two pairs of Axiom Audio QS8's, they've actually been really great for surrounds. Personally I wouldn't buy anything else that they make as far as speakers or subs go but the QS series are really nice for surrounds.


I've heard the same thing before about Axiom, not familiar with them tho, QS series are pretty expensive no? JTR make anything you could use for surrounds without breaking the bank? I think you would be better served with a HE and high output surround as well, but if the Axioms work for you keep them till something emerges from the PSA camp. Jon Lane from TAI and Craig Chase have teamed up and will have some HE HO 10" monitors soon. I think the Company is Chane Home Theater and Music, the site is due to launch this week I think. The line is supposedly completely revamped, speakers and subs (all passive). Good luck with the surrounds, I think you need something special to compliment your front stage (JTRs).
Cheers Jeff


----------



## jbrown15

needspeed52 said:


> I've heard the same thing before about Axiom, not familiar with them tho, QS series are pretty expensive no? JTR make anything you could use for surrounds without breaking the bank? I think you would be better served with a HE and high output surround as well, but if the Axioms work for you keep them till something emerges from the PSA camp. Jon Lane from TAI and Craig Chase have teamed up and will have some HE HO 10" monitors soon. I think the Company is Chane Home Theater and Music, the site is due to launch this week I think. The line is supposedly completely revamped, speakers and subs (all passive). Good luck with the surrounds, I think you need something special to compliment your front stage (JTRs).
> Cheers Jeff


I wish JTR had surrounds that didn't break the bank!...lol
A single pair of Slant 8's for surrounds would cost me 2 grand plus shipping!...lol
QS8's are around $600 a pair.

I'm probably going to do some DIY surrounds and use a very high end Beyma coaxial drivers.


----------



## needspeed52

jbrown15 said:


> I wish JTR had surrounds that didn't break the bank!...lol
> A single pair of Slant 8's for surrounds would cost me 2 grand plus shipping!...lol
> QS8's are around $600 a pair.
> 
> I'm probably going to do some DIY surrounds and use a very high end Beyma coaxial drivers.


That sounds like a winner to me, $2000 plus shipping:yikes: Good luck


----------



## bmoney003

hey guys...just so you know I am over here too haha..not permanent but glad this site has some action (been a member for a while but this thread has been dead)


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Quick inventory update. 

The new dates for the expected arrival of the Power-X drivers we have been waiting on(for over a MONTH) is Tuesday(21st) for a small shipment and Friday(the 24th) for a large shipment. So we'll have a good number of orders shipping on Tuesday/Wed/Thurs.....then on Friday we'll have a big shipping day. Any remaining orders will be built over the week and by the following Monday(27th) I expect to be (finally) back to our same day/next day typical order fulfillment status. I just got off the phone with Scott Atwell, owner of Ficaraudio who is our OEM for our 15" Power-X drivers, and he personally assured me these inventory arrival dates would be fulfilled. 

I realize this isn't the news everyone was hoping for as we had been promised a small shipment of drivers to arrive this week.(and i have been projecting ship dates based on this).

I could outline a 50 page short story regarding this saga starting several months ago with a typhoon hitting China and starting a large domino effect regarding magnet production. I'll save that for another time though. 

Also, any order that takes more than 30 days to fulfill will be discounted an additional 5% (over and above any other discount that may apply to the order). 

Please bear with us for a few more days and everything will be back to normal. As usual, I'll be at the office 7 days a week.....so please don't hesitate to email/call me with ANY questions about our products or the current back order situation....even on Saturday or Sunday!


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Mike0206

Wow exceptional service I must say! Good on ya Tom and PSA!


----------



## padgman1

Folks, if Tom's post above doesn't qualify as excellent service, I don't know what does........

All I DO know is it IS worth the wait ( I have a XV-15, wish I could convince the wife I need another)....


----------



## needspeed52

padgman1 said:


> Folks, if Tom's post above doesn't qualify as excellent service, I don't know what does........
> 
> All I DO know is it IS worth the wait ( I have a XV-15, wish I could convince the wife I need another)....


That's easy, tell the wifey you are Beta testing a new sub with a different driver that PSA is thinking of using with a new batch of subs and they need a certain amount of people's perspectives on what they think and then PSA will make a decision whether or not to put them into production based on the positive reviews. :T
After she hears dual XV15s you will have no trouble convincing her that you have to keep the review sample at a discount, I'm sure Tom will give you the 5% discount for duals anyway. :R 
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Blackmambakila

Saturn94 said:


> Hey Black. Ordered that 3rd Triax yet?
> 
> Welcome to HTS.


Hey, sorry ive been so busy at work I just got back to this page!!!! :T


----------



## Blackmambakila

Basshead81 said:


> Glad to see ya here BMK!! You might want to hold off and check out the new PSA speaker line before ordering them JTR's....just sayin.


Actually that's why I didn't get them, ive known about it lol! :dumbcrazy:


----------



## Basshead81

needspeed52 said:


> That's easy, tell the wifey you are Beta testing a new sub with a different driver that PSA is thinking of using with a new batch of subs and they need a certain amount of people's perspectives on what they think and then PSA will make a decision whether or not to put them into production based on the positive reviews. :T
> After she hears dual XV15s you will have no trouble convincing her that you have to keep the review sample at a discount, I'm sure Tom will give you the 5% discount for duals anyway. :R
> Cheers Jeff


I like that theory!! I might have to try this for a 4th...:innocent:


----------



## Basshead81

Blackmambakila said:


> Actually that's why I didn't get them, ive known about it lol! :dumbcrazy:


I figured you were up to something. :spend:


----------



## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> I like that theory!! I might have to try this for a 4th...:innocent:


It works, I used it to get my Triax and the XS30s :T


----------



## padgman1

needspeed52 said:


> That's easy, tell the wifey you are Beta testing a new sub with a different driver that PSA is thinking of using with a new batch of subs and they need a certain amount of people's perspectives on what they think and then PSA will make a decision whether or not to put them into production based on the positive reviews. :T
> After she hears dual XV15s you will have no trouble convincing her that you have to keep the review sample at a discount, I'm sure Tom will give you the 5% discount for duals anyway. :R
> Cheers Jeff


Jeff, if it were only that easy..........

Tom, if you're listening, I would be VERY WILLING to be a beta tester for such a scenario described in Jeff's post


----------



## needspeed52

padgman1 said:


> Jeff, if it were only that easy..........
> 
> Tom, if you're listening, I would be VERY WILLING to be a beta tester for such a scenario described in Jeff's post


Padg I hear you my man, if I were you I would start saving now for that second XV15, that was my first sub and within a week I had to get another one, I just loved that sub and wish I had them back, I'm serious.


----------



## Basshead81

needspeed52 said:


> Padg I hear you my man, if I were you I would start saving now for that second XV15, that was my first sub and within a week I had to get another one, I just loved that sub and wish I had them back, I'm serious.


I do love my Triple XV15's and have no intentions on changing, but I am suprised you say that after making the jump to a XS30, let alone a Triax.


----------



## Blackmambakila

Basshead81 said:


> I do love my Triple XV15's and have no intentions on changing, but I am suprised you say that after making the jump to a XS30, let alone a Triax.


Man I feel stupid! :neener: remember when I was running REW and you asked if my laptop has an HDMI, I just saw that it does have one :dumbcrazy: lol Well now I can use that for the next time


----------



## Basshead81

Blackmambakila said:


> Man I feel stupid! :neener: remember when I was running REW and you asked if my laptop has an HDMI, I just saw that it does have one :dumbcrazy: lol Well now I can use that for the next time


I wondered because I thought you had just bought that laptop and they normally come with hdmi outputs these days. :scratch:


----------



## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> I do love my Triple XV15's and have no intentions on changing, but I am suprised you say that after making the jump to a XS30, let alone a Triax.


I hear you BH, don't get me wrong I love my current setup but I just felt the XV15 is something special in that price range. Giving the fact that I'm fairly new to HT, just a few years, I was mainly concerned with two channel music, mostly analog. I got my first HD TV just five years ago and that was it for me :spend: I guess the XV15 was the first real sub I heard and wanted more. I now have a dedicated two channel rig and a HT as well. I'm considering a XS30 now to bring up the rear of the MLP (near field) for the HT. In the back of my mind is should I do that or wait for Tom and Jim's new speaker offerings, not that I need more speakers, I have 11 now 
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Basshead81

needspeed52 said:


> I hear you BH, don't get me wrong I love my current setup but I just felt the XV15 is something special in that price range. Giving the fact that I'm fairly new to HT, just a few years, I was mainly concerned with two channel music, mostly analog. I got my first HD TV just five years ago and that was it for me :spend: I guess the XV15 was the first real sub I heard and wanted more. I now have a dedicated two channel rig and a HT as well. I'm considering a XS30 now to bring up the rear of the MLP (near field) for the HT. In the back of my mind is should I do that or wait for Tom and Jim's new speaker offerings, not that I need more speakers, I have 11 now
> Cheers Jeff


Good to hear!!


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Quick update,

Shipments begin again today after a lengthy delay. We will be shipping a good number of orders today and tomorrow. Friday should be a very large shipping day. By Monday we should be caught up with all back orders.

Thanks to all customers who have been so patient during these delays!

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Saturn94

Thanks for the update.


----------



## Basshead81

Tom V. said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Quick update,
> 
> Shipments begin again today after a lengthy delay. We will be shipping a good number of orders today and tomorrow. Friday should be a very large shipping day. By Monday we should be caught up with all back orders.
> 
> Thanks to all customers who have been so patient during these delays!
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Great news Tom!! there are a couple new customers that were concerned over at AVS, hopefully this puts thier minds at ease.


----------



## Tom V.

Pretty big shipment day today....pretty much a full fed ex truck to ourselves and a good portion of an 18 wheeler..

All tracking info is out. Today catches us on all 2013 orders(yes, we were THAT far behind). We'll work most of the weekend and with another large driver shipment arriving Tuesday we should be completely caught up with all orders by Tuesday/Wed of next week. Thanks again to everyone who has waited so long and shown so much patience with us. Jim and I are putting some "checks/balances" in place now to minimize the chances of this type of outage in the future.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## GusGus748s

Tom V. said:


> Pretty big shipment day today....pretty much a full fed ex truck to ourselves and a good portion of an 18 wheeler..
> 
> All tracking info is out. Today catches us on all 2013 orders(yes, we were THAT far behind). We'll work most of the weekend and with another large driver shipment arriving Tuesday we should be completely caught up with all orders by Tuesday/Wed of next week. Thanks again to everyone who has waited so long and shown so much patience with us. Jim and I are putting some "checks/balances" in place now to minimize the chances of this type of outage in the future.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


That's awesome to hear. I had to wait for a while, but man I feel like a little kid in Christmas time whenever I listen to music or watch a movie. The bass from my XV15 is just plain awesome. I'm setting up a savings account to get a 2nd one :hsd:


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## Basshead81

GusGus748s said:


> That's awesome to hear. I had to wait for a while, but man I feel like a little kid in Christmas time whenever I listen to music or watch a movie. The bass from my XV15 is just plain awesome. I'm setting up a savings account to get a 2nd one :hsd:


Yes they are awesome! My XXXV15 setup goes where no man has gone before lol....well probably not but hey.


----------



## labman1

Wa-hoo the 2nd XS15 arrives Tuesday!! Have the UMIK-1 ready to go and new cable!!:T


----------



## mdanderson

labman1 said:


> Wa-hoo the 2nd XS15 arrives Tuesday!! Have the UMIK-1 ready to go and new cable!!:T


Congrats labman1. Would like to hear your impressions of your dual subs as well as seeing some pics. I really like my dual XV15s. Thanks.


----------



## Tom V.

Another good shipment via Fedex today, all XS15 and XV15 orders are caught up to about 1-19, 1-20 now. We'll be fully caught up before the end of the week.

We will be caught up to 1-20(ish) on XS30 orders by end of day tomorrow. These will also be fully caught up by end of week.

We have 9(?) XV30f subs going out in the next 2-3 days too.

Long story short----by end of week we will be back to our normal "ship same day or next business day in most cases" model.

Thanks again to all who have shown incredible patience with these delays.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Mostly freight shipments today and not quite as many as hoped. The inbound 15" shipment arrived late as the truck driver grumbled something about it being 20 below?

Anyway, we got a late start so today's outbound was limited to something around 20. We already have another 10-15 being boxed and ready to go tomorrow so it will be another big day. 

By end of day tomorrow we should be 100% caught up on all XS15, XV15, Triax shipments. XS30 and XV30f will take another 1-2 days though as these orders are just "pouring in" lately.

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, thanks to all who have waited so patiently for us to fulfill all of these back orders. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Basshead81

Man you are pumping out the orders Tom!! Glad to here business is going well...atleast that the "special" AVS member is not hurting sales!! I was reading a thread over there yesterday and it looks like Jbrown has picked up where I left off LOL.


----------



## needspeed52

Hey guys, the XV30F is the only PSA sub I have not heard in my room, can some 30F owners chime in on it's performance? How does the Triax compare to dual XV30Fs? Thanks.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Basshead81

needspeed52 said:


> Hey guys, the XV30F is the only PSA sub I have not heard in my room, can some 30F owners chime in on it's performance? How does the Triax compare to dual XV30Fs? Thanks.
> Cheers Jeff


When I chatted with Tom, he said dual XV30F's are real close to a Triax in regards to sheer output in the 15-80hz range. I know you are looking for folks that have experience with both, but I figured I would throw that out there in case nobody chimes in.


----------



## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> When I chatted with Tom, he said dual XV30F's are real close to a Triax in regards to sheer output in the 15-80hz range. I know you are looking for folks that have experience with both, but I figured I would throw that out there in case nobody chimes in.


That more than answers my question, thanks BH81. I watched Rush the other night and at about 1:25-1:30 on the counter the bass (ULF) from my Triax was unreal, I was not expecting that as it came out of nowhere while watching the movie. My chair was rocking, really :yikes: it felt like the scene in the original Exorcist when she was flopping around on the bed, my wife came down from upstairs and said everything in her candle making room was shaking including the light fixtures. I have all concrete walls and floors as my home is heated with a boiler furnace. This was all at about -25dB on the volume, I was afraid to listen at reference because of structural damage.:T
Cheers Jeff


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## muziky2k

Aaaaaaaaaa…oh baby. My XV30f was delivered this morning. I am in heaven.:bigsmile:


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## needspeed52

muziky2k said:


> Aaaaaaaaaa…oh baby. My XV30f was delivered this morning. I am in heaven.:bigsmile:


Please do not hesitate to post your impressions, that is the only PSA sub I have not had the pleasure of hearing in my home.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## muziky2k

*My amateur review of the XV30f*

I placed my order for the XV30f at the recommendation of Tom V. based on his assessment of my listening room (25X25). Tom was very responsive to all my questions and emails regarding the purchase and later what seemed like infinite shipment delays. All total, I received this beast in just over three weeks. Looking back, having to wait three weeks doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Tom promised a "night and day" difference since I would be replacing my old Velodyne DLSR 3750 with the XV30f. My reason for wanting a new sub developed after seeing so many videos of subwoofer excursion while playing Bass I Love You. When I played most of the songs by this group they sounded horrible. In fact, on a couple of songs, it seemed like my subwoofer went silent due to its limited low frequency extension. Naturally, I became jealous and curious as to what I was really missing. However, the DLSR3750 was a pretty decent subwoofer to start. Well, at least until I set up my XV30f this morning.

I will start my review with my current setup: Magnepan 1.7 for fronts, Martin Logan Feature center, no surrounds yet, and a Denon 4311 receiver. All of my HD movies and music are stored on a Windows Home Server (16TB) and played using XBMC running on a Mac Mini. I have a Panasonic plasma television. 

My first impression of the XV30f is that it is huge, but not as big as I thought it would be. I don't have WAF issues. Although, I am a single father. My daughters, 8 and 12, did come into the room briefly to say, "Really, dad…is this necessary?" Grinning sheepishly, I replied, "No, but neither is the iPad mini and iPhone 5s I just bought you." At 6'3 and 250lbs, moving the XV30f into place didn't seem that big of a deal. It definitely would have taken two people if I needed to go up or down stairs. Did I mention that the 15" subwoofers are gigantic? Setup was easy. Unboxing, setup, and running Audyssey took me about 30 minutes. I don't have any meters or fancy software to show results. Everything is based on my ears and opinion. 

The first sound I sent to the XV30f was based on sample frequency tones I generated using audio equipment I own. I used tones down to 10Hz. In its current position, I have substantial bass down to about 15Hz. I now understand what everyone means by room pressurization. Nice! Now, on to music and Bass Mekanik.

The first song I played was Sub Bass Excursion. Compared to my Velodyne DLSR3750, the difference, yes, Tom, was night and day. In fact, it was borderline ridiculous. I was amazed at the tightness, extension, and clarity of the XV30f. I never realized how muddy and distorted my Velodyne produced bass. It was, dare I say, beyond night and day. The DLSR3750 also produces significant cabinet noise. Funny, I never noticed it before. The build quality of the XV30f is 4 stars out of five. No cabinet noise. Solid build. No defects. The only complaint you could make is that it will never win any beauty contests. Then again, I'm no beauty either so who cares? I listen to a mix of jazz, rap, and even classical. With minor level adjustments, there were no issues with any of the music I sampled. The XV30f is definitely for bass lovers. When listening to classical music, I generally turn my subwoofer off as the Maggies can handle classical music without any help. For testing purposes, I turned the bass very low and the Chopin I sampled was very enjoyable. However, for classical, I still prefer the sound of the naked Maggies. Now, on to movies.

Movies are where the XV30f took me to a new stratosphere. I chose Avatar, Prometheus, Cloverfield, and War of the Worlds for this review. Overall, it was like I had never "heard" these movies before. As I listened with my eyes closed, room shaking, and testing the structural integrity of my house, I was amazed at the impact, extension, and real movie theater like experience. The rumbles were so much deeper. Unexpected noises made me jump as they crashed into my chest. I heard LFE in these movies that I had never heard before. So this is what a REAL subwoofer sounds like.

In conclusion, the XV30f blended very well with my setup. Localization was not an issue. Setup was easy. Movies are where this beast of a subwoofer shines. And if you're a bass lover with music, the XV30f will give you a new appreciation when listening to rap, R&B, and club music. No matter how hard I tried, listening at levels I'm sure my neighbors don't appreciate, I could not get this subwoofer to sound strained. I even understand what everyone means by pressurization now. I needed a cigarette after watching Cloverfield. Tom, thanks for the discounts, and you're right, I don't regret this purchase. :T:hsd:

Mark


----------



## needspeed52

*Re: My amateur review of the XV30f*

Thank you Muziky2k, that was very refreshing to read, I could almost feel your enjoyment and wow factor as you described your experience with the XV30F. I am very happy that you are so pleased with your purchase. Tom and Jim know a thing or two about subwoofers, wouldn't you agree. They have always been there for me no matter what the situation and always steered my in the right direction, Congrats my friend.
Cheers Jeff............Very nice rig you have


----------



## muziky2k

*Re: My amateur review of the XV30f*

Thanks, and yes I do agree. They've definitely got skills. I have to admit the weeks waiting for my sub I wavered because I thought my Velodyne was a pretty good sub. The XV30f is just on another level. Tom has the patience of Job. I'm sure I wasn't the only one pinging him with emails and phone calls. I admire his patience with everything including the forums. I just wish he could teach a few other businesses about customer service.


----------



## Basshead81

needspeed52 said:


> That more than answers my question, thanks BH81. I watched Rush the other night and at about 1:25-1:30 on the counter the bass (ULF) from my Triax was unreal, I was not expecting that as it came out of nowhere while watching the movie. My chair was rocking, really :yikes: it felt like the scene in the original Exorcist when she was flopping around on the bed, my wife came down from upstairs and said everything in her candle making room was shaking including the light fixtures. I have all concrete walls and floors as my home is heated with a boiler furnace. This was all at about -25dB on the volume, I was afraid to listen at reference because of structural damage.:T
> Cheers Jeff


Nice!! I have no doubt that the Triax is nothing short of amazing. I am suprised Ellis wants to sell his.


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## Basshead81

Nice read Mark! Glad to hear the XV30F suits your needs!!


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## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> Nice!! I have no doubt that the Triax is nothing short of amazing. I am suprised Ellis wants to sell his.



I wasn't aware that he was selling it, any particular reason? There have been days when I first got the Triax that made me think "did I do the right thing" I actually wanted dual XV30Fs as these were the only PSA subs I haven't heard but Tom and Jim told me to hold on and wait for the Flagship sub that was coming out, so I did, I was the 3rd person on the Triax list back in the first week of June 2013, I hung in there and waited months for the Triax. I changed up my LR and was a little disappointed at first with the Triax, especially with location. MLP was dead in the middle of a null and I was getting output to the left and right of the MLP 7-8dB more then at my chair. I put the sub back in the original spot where I had XV15s and the XS30s and problem solved. I really like the Triax but still in the back of my mind I would have loved to tried dual XV30Fs, I guess I will never know. :scratch:


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## NBPk402

needspeed52 said:


> I wasn't aware that he was selling it, any particular reason? There have been days when I first got the Triax that made me think "did I do the right thing" I actually wanted dual XV30Fs as these were the only PSA subs I haven't heard but Tom and Jim told me to hold on and wait for the Flagship sub that was coming out, so I did, I was the 3rd person on the Triax list back in the first week of June 2013, I hung in there and waited months for the Triax. I changed up my LR and was a little disappointed at first with the Triax, especially with location. MLP was dead in the middle of a null and I was getting output to the left and right of the MLP 7-8dB more then at my chair. I put the sub back in the original spot where I had XV15s and the XS30s and problem solved. I really like the Triax but still in the back of my mind I would have loved to tried dual XV30Fs, I guess I will never know. :scratch:


I am selling due to the need of a second one for smoothing in the new HT, and the wife is very frugal on electricity consumption. So I am going with 2 used Danley SUPER SPUDs. I have plenty of room for large subs and my whole HT setup is Klipsch horn speakers so this will be a great match and conserve on the electricity at the same time. I fully expected to have the Triax be my last sub, and it would have been if I didn't have to look at the electricity bill plus the cost of a 2nd one. I highly recommend the Triax to anyone that wants a sub! We cracked our hardwood floors and separated them from the walls with the Triax without even exceeding reference levels with the 4520!

My Danleys will be arriving next week, and I have 2 potential buyers on the Triax so hopefully it will be gone in the next couple of weeks. I will be back to the old KLH sub for a month or so (until we get the HT done).


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## needspeed52

Thanks Ron for the explanation, I can understand your situation, I to am fearful of listening at reference, not only in my LR but a floor above as well. I would love to have duals for the smoothing also but to get a duplicate Triax now is way too expensive for me, I have the Expresso finish so I guess I would be looking at $3700. I'm just so used to dual subs. I have put an additional dedicated 20 amp circuit in my HT just for the Triax so I would have no problem with power and room for a second, it just would be a little difficult to sneak another 230 pounder into the house. Good luck with the sale.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Basshead81

needspeed52 said:


> I wasn't aware that he was selling it, any particular reason? There have been days when I first got the Triax that made me think "did I do the right thing" I actually wanted dual XV30Fs as these were the only PSA subs I haven't heard but Tom and Jim told me to hold on and wait for the Flagship sub that was coming out, so I did, I was the 3rd person on the Triax list back in the first week of June 2013, I hung in there and waited months for the Triax. I changed up my LR and was a little disappointed at first with the Triax, especially with location. MLP was dead in the middle of a null and I was getting output to the left and right of the MLP 7-8dB more then at my chair. I put the sub back in the original spot where I had XV15s and the XS30s and problem solved. I really like the Triax but still in the back of my mind I would have loved to tried dual XV30Fs, I guess I will never know. :scratch:


I think you are like me and really love that extra output ported has around the tune...If I had to describe the bass is thicker in that region. I think it makes movies more fun because everything will sound tame and even, then when that 15-30hz explosion hits, all hell breaks loose.


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## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> I think you are like me and really love that extra output ported has around the tune...If I had to describe the bass is thicker in that region. I think it makes movies more fun because everything will sound tame and even, then when that 15-30hz explosion hits, all hell breaks loose.


BH, you took the words right out of my mouth, to be honest the XV15 was my first (real sub) and was so impressed with it especially as you mention the extra output of the ported at tune, I was amazed when all was tame and out of no where BOOM, I have been chasing that ever since. Don't get me wrong the Triax can pressurize a room like nothing else I've heard, that button on the amp for rooms up to 5000cf and 5000cf and above really makes a diffrence, at first I thought it was a gimmick, but it surely changed my mind. I like ported subs just for the reason you mentioned, the Triax really is a beast, I actually believe at reference I could cause some structural damage as Ron mentioned. :hsd: This crazy hobby can drive you mad, it's never enough, the wife actually thinks I am possessed by a demon, I wonder why she feels that way:devil:
Cheers Jeff


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## pddufrene

I have a question for you guys? My wife won't allow me to get duels as I was planning when I purchased my XV15, so I was looking at getting a XS30. I really don't know what to do at this point hearing yall talk about the XV15 like this. Granted I love it! But I'm looking for more bass in a single speaker, and I'm not quite sure I can pass it by the wife to get a sub that's that much larger in size than the XV15. What yall think I should do?


----------



## Basshead81

pddufrene said:


> I have a question for you guys? My wife won't allow me to get duels as I was planning when I purchased my XV15, so I was looking at getting a XS30. I really don't know what to do at this point hearing yall talk about the XV15 like this. Granted I love it! But I'm looking for more bass in a single speaker, and I'm not quite sure I can pass it by the wife to get a sub that's that much larger in size than the XV15. What yall think I should do?


Talk her into adding a second XV15 or go with a XV30F. The XS30 is going to be a lateral move at best in thr 15-30hz area but will have a significant gain in the 40-80hz area(6db). So I guess it depends on what you want more of?? The XV30 will split the difference and give you 3-4db more output across the board. Also the XV30F has a smaller footprint then the XS30, but it is taller.


----------



## pddufrene

Basshead81 said:


> Talk her into adding a second XV15 or go with a XV30F. The XS30 is going to be a lateral move at best in thr 15-30hz area but will have a significant gain in the 40-80hz area(6db). So I guess it depends on what you want more of?? The XV30 will split the difference and give you 3-4db more output across the board. Also the XV30F has a smaller footprint then the XS30, but it is taller.


That's one thing I was wondering about when it came to the xs30, if i would be losing anything in the low end. So basically I'd be getting the same performance I'm getting with the xv15, just getting more of that mid bass punch? Correct?


----------



## Mike0206

So I have a question for all you guys as well. What would be better? Dual xv15's or 1 xv30f's


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## pddufrene

Mike0206 said:


> So I have a question for all you guys as well. What would be better? Dual xv15's or 1 xv30f's


I'd say duel XV15's, for one with proper placement you'll get a much smoother room response. And also the XV30f has a 750watt amp pushing two 15's and with the XV15 you have 500watts pushing a single 15" woofer, which will give you more authority. That's my opinion and the reason I wanted duels.


----------



## Mike0206

pddufrene said:


> I'd say duel XV15's, for one with proper placement you'll get a much smoother room response. And also the XV30f has a 750watt amp pushing two 15's and with the XV15 you have 500watts pushing a single 15" woofer, which will give you more authority. That's my opinion and the reason I wanted duels.


 Exactly what I was thinking also. I have been contemplating going DIY with dual 18" SI subs but I keep coming back to PSA thinking it would fit my needs better albeit more expensive. All you guys talking about the XV15 has me considering this route more seriously. I can't do ported diy subs so that's the one thing that is pushing me away from DIY. When I talked to Tom V. awhile ago he steered me towards the XV30f cause of my room size and then possibly adding a second one in the future. I may think about that route still cause 4 15's with 1500 watts sounds good to me also!!! Only down side is I can do dual sealed 18's for about $800 for both with an EP4000. Just not sure how much I would be giving up with them being sealed.


----------



## pddufrene

Mike0206 said:


> Exactly what I was thinking also. I have been contemplating going DIY with dual 18" SI subs but I keep coming back to PSA thinking it would fit my needs better albeit more expensive. All you guys talking about the XV15 has me considering this route more seriously. I can't do ported diy subs so that's the one thing that is pushing me away from DIY. When I talked to Tom V. awhile ago he steered me towards the XV30f cause of my room size and then possibly adding a second one in the future. I may think about that route still cause 4 15's with 1500 watts sounds good to me also!!! Only down side is I can do dual sealed 18's for about $800 for both with an EP4000. Just not sure how much I would be giving up with them being sealed.


I know what the xv15 is capable of and it is a great sub, that's why I've been questioning about the xs30. My wife wrecked my plans of getting a second xv15 so I was thinking of going that route, but like yourself I'm not sure if the sealed woofers would leave me missing out on something. I've always had ported subs and haven't experienced a large sealed sub for myself to say wether I'd like them or not.


----------



## NBPk402

I think in general you are better to go with 2 subs vs 1.


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## needspeed52

I have to agree with dual subs, get that second XV15 and you'll never look back.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Basshead81

ellisr63 said:


> I think in general you are better to go with 2 subs vs 1.


Agreed!.. Multiple subs imo just sound better because the bass is more evenly distributed and less localized. Its pretty cool when the subs are next to the couches but you can not tell where the bass is coming from.


----------



## bmoney003

Well I went from an xv15 to an xs30 and the xs30 has much more output than the xv15 above 20. And dug down to 10hz as opposed to 15 the xv15 did. 

Granted I ended up buying a second xs30 (which is the most incredible upgrade I ever did)

So obviously A second xv15 is preferred. But an xs30 is not a lateral move. But not as great as a second xv15

Also the xs30 is smaller than the Xv15 (shorter and not as deep) slightly wider.


----------



## Basshead81

bmoney003 said:


> Well I went from an xv15 to an xs30 and the xs30 has much more output than the xv15 above 20. And dug down to 10hz as opposed to 15 the xv15 did.
> 
> Granted I ended up buying a second xs30 (which is the most incredible upgrade I ever did)
> 
> So obviously A second xv15 is preferred. But an xs30 is not a lateral move. But not as great as a second xv15
> 
> Also the xs30 is smaller than the Xv15 (shorter and not as deep) slightly wider.


Just ot be clear I never said the XS30 was a lateral move. I said the XV15 and XS30 would have similar output in the 15-30hz range which is truth. When I stated "lateral" move that was in regards to ultra deep bass. Actually the XV15 will have slightly more output around it's tuning point. The XS30 has twice the output of the XV15 in the mid bass region. 10hz extension does not mean much unless you can get significant output down that low...a single XS30 is not going to have gobs of output down that low in most rooms. If one wants more mid bass slam then a XS30 is a no brainer...multiple XS30's could definitely make use of that 10hz extension which would be fun. :hsd:

I think the XS30 is a better sub no doubt, but dual XV15's would be a better setup in most rooms.


----------



## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> Thanks Ron for the explanation, I can understand your situation, I to am fearful of listening at reference, not only in my LR but a floor above as well. I would love to have duals for the smoothing also but to get a duplicate Triax now is way too expensive for me, I have the Expresso finish so I guess I would be looking at $3700. I'm just so used to dual subs. I have put an additional dedicated 20 amp circuit in my HT just for the Triax so I would have no problem with power and room for a second, it just would be a little difficult to sneak another 230 pounder into the house. Good luck with the sale.
> Cheers Jeff


I'm in the same position where a second Triax is out of reach financially should I decide to add a second sub in the future (may consider it in another year or so). When that time comes I plan to talk to Tom about options. Maybe an XS30 would work providing the goal is smoothing and not increased output (I get plenty of output from the Triax).

Fortunately my system sounds great with the single Triax so I'm in no hurry.


----------



## Bear123

pddufrene said:


> I have a question for you guys? My wife won't allow me to get duels as I was planning when I purchased my XV15, so I was looking at getting a XS30. I really don't know what to do at this point hearing yall talk about the XV15 like this. Granted I love it! But I'm looking for more bass in a single speaker, and I'm not quite sure I can pass it by the wife to get a sub that's that much larger in size than the XV15. What yall think I should do?


Here is your game plan:

Start selling her on how excited you are to upgrade to the JTR OS. Show her lots of pictures, and don't forget to mention price. Finally, after much hem hawing and loving compromise, agree to settle on dual xv15's.:bigsmile:


----------



## Bear123

Saturn94 said:


> I'm in the same position where a second Triax is out of reach financially should I decide to add a second sub in the future (may consider it in another year or so). When that time comes I plan to talk to Tom about options. Maybe an XS30 would work providing the goal is smoothing and not increased output (I get plenty of output from the Triax).
> 
> Fortunately my system sounds great with the single Triax so I'm in no hurry.


I am familiar with someone who runs very good quality dual ported subs in the front of his room. He added an XS30 behind his couch for smoothing/mid bass slam and is very happy with the results he got.


----------



## Saturn94

Bear123 said:


> I am familiar with someone who runs very good quality dual ported subs in the front of his room. He added an XS30 behind his couch for smoothing/mid bass slam and is very happy with the results he got.


Is that the guy with the dual SVS up front? I've seen his posts and pics....very nice. 

You bring up another obstacle I have to multiples......placement. I am very limited in placement options. Hopefully the one or two places I can put a second sub would work well.


----------



## Basshead81

Bear123 said:


> I am familiar with someone who runs very good quality dual ported subs in the front of his room. He added an XS30 behind his couch for smoothing/mid bass slam and is very happy with the results he got.


Yes that was CR13...and fwiw its generally not a great idea to mix ported and sealed due to phase issues around the tuning point of the ported sub in relation to the sealed sub. Not saying it can not be done, but it definitely can be a daunting task. That being said mixing a Triax and XS30 should not be a issue since they both are sealed. Oh also, I believe Saturn tried integrating his SVS 16-46+ with the Triax and was not happy with the results.


----------



## Saturn94

Basshead81 said:


> Yes that was CR13...and fwiw its generally not a great idea to mix ported and sealed due to phase issues around the tuning point of the ported sub in relation to the sealed sub. Not saying it can not be done, but it definitely can be a daunting task. That being said mixing a Triax and XS30 should not be a issue since they both are sealed. Oh also, I believe Saturn tried integrating his SVS 16-46+ with the Triax and was not happy with the results.


Good memory. 

You're right, mixing the 16-46+ with the Triax did result in cancelations around the tuning point. It was encouraging that at least part of the spectrum did show improvement (above 20hz or so if my memory is correct). So my thinking is a sealed sub should give me the benefits above 20hz while not having the cancelation issues below 20hz.

Someone suggested a Seaton SubMersive would be a good match, but they have also gone up in price and would likely be more than I could spend. That brings me to the XS30. But I'm getting ahead of myself as it will be at least a year before I can consider going down that road :spend: . No biggie though, I'm thoroughly enjoying the Triax for now. :T


----------



## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> Good memory.
> 
> You're right, mixing the 16-46+ with the Triax did result in cancelations around the tuning point. It was encouraging that at least part of the spectrum did show improvement (above 20hz or so if my memory is correct). So my thinking is a sealed sub should give me the benefits above 20hz while not having the cancelation issues below 20hz.
> 
> Someone suggested a Seaton SubMersive would be a good match, but they have also gone up in price and would likely be more than I could spend. That brings me to the XS30. But I'm getting ahead of myself as it will be at least a year before I can consider going down that road :spend: . No biggie though, I'm thoroughly enjoying the Triax for now. :T


My thoughts also, I think a XS30 will compliment my Triax


----------



## Tom V.

BTW, not sure if everyone has seen...

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/top-picks-subwoofers

Reviewer Brent Butterworth wrote: “The bass was nothing less than brutal. When I played the 16-Hz low notes from the Organ Symphony, the XV15 whupped the other subs easily. The whole room pulsated, almost as if some sort of monster had plucked my home off the slab and begun shaking it like a toy.”

Also, go down that list and see how many of the winners are made right here in America..


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Couple of comments regarding the term "linear" in regards to subwoofer capabilities---particularly in regards to maximum output capabilities. 

I want to address the frequency response of a subwoofer first as (imo) this IS an important indicator of the bass quality that one can expect from a subwoofer. With a frequency response graph a "linear" (or a straight)line can have some importance although there are still variables that need to be considered. The misunderstanding in some comments seems to be rooted in folks assuming the same importance of a "straight line" should apply to other measurement graphs as well. In other words....the mantra is "straighter is always better"....and this is simply *not* the case. 

Let me break down some of the factors I consider important in regards to frequency response of a home audio subwoofer first and then I will circle back to the max output stuff. 


a)First area would be the "mid and upper" frequency range...let's use 40hz to 120hz as an example. The goal here is relatively flat response across the entire range. Something like +/- 1dB is great but it can certainly be argued that there is no real advantage between +/- 1dB and +/- 2dB in this context as the room effects will always "overwhelm" this portion of the frequency range anyway. Also, I feel it is very important to have a frequency response that extends above the intended crossover point. If you see a frequency response that drops say....6-8dB by 100hz or so....that will affect the sound quality. 

b) The second area is the deepest frequency operating range of the product.. With a quality subwoofer this will be in the 10-40hz range. In this frequency range you can have very different design goals depending on the manufacturer. While it is true that the overwhelming majority of music bass is recorded in higher frequencies, the shape of the frequency response in this "deep bass" range can be very important in regards to sound quality as well. The shape of the frequency response in this range will largely determine the subwoofer's "group delay", "impulse response", and "stored ringing" performance. These three metrics(combined with the frequency response data) can go a long way in predicting the overall sound quality of a subwoofer. Another important consideration when shaping the deep bass frequency response is room gain----also referred to as "pressure vessel gain". Below a certain frequency the room will no longer be able to support full sound wave length development. When this occurs the room begins to become "pressurized". The further you drop in frequency the more the pressure builds---the more the pressure builds the more of a volume boost the subwoofer will get. The size of the room, openings into other areas of the home, even the construction used will all influence the amount of "pressure vessel effect" one will experience. You can see this phenomenon in action with the reviewers and customer posting their in room frequency response of our products----particularly the XS15 and XS30 Power X subwoofers. The XS15, for example, begins a carefully shaped frequency roll off around 38hz(when measured quasi anechoic - aka "ground plane"). But when placed in a small to medium room environment the XS15 often measures relatively flat down to the 10hz range! 

Hopefully this explains my thought process a little when the discussion turns to subwoofer frequency response. Part 2 coming up..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Quick part 2.

Why the CEA-2010 burst method is the most accurately way to gauge the maximum "clean" output capabilities of a subwoofer. I will quickly address some of the misinformation I have seen posted.

First I have seen comments that CEA-2010 is over lenient of harmonic distortion. 

Not true. The CEA-2010 protocol has been developed based on extensive research into the audibility of harmonics in the typical subwoofer operating range. This research includes controlled listening tests with and without masking content. 

Second, I have seen comments that something like a long continuous sweep(or worse, a steady state signal like a sine wave) would be better indicators of a subwoofer's performance capabilities. 

Again, not true. The tone bursts used in the CEA-2010 measurement process were *specifically* designed (By Don Keele!) to simulate the transient nature of music/film source material. If you are worried about winning a test tone war in a parking lot....okay, a sine wave will "load" the subwoofer much differently. But we have no/little concern with this at Power Sound Audio. Our only concern is how our product will sound with real world source material---music, home theater, etc. 

There's a little reading about this subject here

http://www.diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele_2001-09_AES_Preprint_-_Dev._Test_Signals_EIA-426-B.PDF

http://www.synaudcon.com/site/articles/composite-bass-tone-burst-test-track/

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Part 3:

Before going on it is important to remember that a graph showing you maximum CEA-2010 output is *not* a graph showing you maximum output capabilities. The CEA-2010 data uses restrictive harmonic distortion limits. Take away these limits and subwoofers will score higher output numbers. Just how much higher depends on several variables. But all of this is beyond the scope of this quick write up so let's stay focused on the CEA-2010 burst numbers.


The frequency response of a subwoofer is very different from the maximum output capabilities of a subwoofer. I have seen comments implying that it is more "accurate" if the subwoofer has all of its output capped at approximately the same SPL versus a subwoofer that does not. This is actually backwards assuming the latter has the same/higher output capabilities at all/most of the tested frequencies. 

Let's look at two generic examples using the CEA-2010 industry standard measurement protocol.. Subwoofer *A* has a maximum output capability of 105dB at all measured frequencies----20,25,31,40,50,63hz. Subwoofer *B* has maximum output capabilities of 105dB at 20hz, 106dB at 25hz, 107dB at 31hz, and 110dB at 40hz, 50hz, and 63hz. Now, before we go further it is important to remember that at 105dB, subwoofer *B* will very likely maintain all of its inherent frequency response "linearity". So if the source material only requires 105dB of output....both subwoofers will sound very much alike. This assumes all other performance characteristics(group delay, impulse response, stored ringing, overall frequency response,etc) of the two example subwoofer are very similar too of course. For this example, let's assume these variables are all similar though so we can focus on one variable at a time. 


Now, what if the source material requires the subwoofer to reproduce bass louder than 105dB at the seating position? What about 110dB? Well, subwoofer *A* will not provide ANY of this additional material that you are intended to hear and feel. All of the dyanmic headroom is "squashed" and the audio presentation will suffer accordingly. On the other hand, subwoofer *B* WILL provide all of this material in the 40hz and up range AND a good portion of it in the 25-40hz range. Will you experience all of the intended bass effects at the 110dB level from subwoofer B? No. But you will experience significantly more content that you are absolutely intended to hear/feel. The whole idea with audio reproduction is for the system to have the ability to reproduce AS MUCH of source material as possible. 

The root of the misunderstanding in these cases seems to be folks assuming you can use a "maximum output graph" as an indicator of something other than...well....maximum output. You can *not* accurately determine anything from the maximum output graph except maximum output. This would be like looking at a frequency response graph and attempting to determine maximum output capabilities. Two VERY different graphs, each serving a singular purpose. 

Jim and I have been comparing the above scenario in varying degrees in over a decade's worth of listening sessions and I can say, without any doubt, subwoofer *B* will always provide a much more dynamic, realistic presentation for both music and film material. I believe the feedback from other audio enthusiasts who have compared these "types" of subwoofers affirms this point of view as well.


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## pddufrene

Thanks Tom! for the very detailed run down on a subject that seems to be argued hear and on many other threads.


----------



## Mike0206

+1! Very good information Tom! Real world performance is what matters most. Testing is good to get an idea of how something will likely perform but it definitely does not tell the whole story.


----------



## Saturn94

Great posts Tom. Thanks.


----------



## billy p

Whoa...that was good information...I kind of understood some of that...but your explanation helps paint a much clearer portrait.

Like the others already said....thanks, Tom


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## Basshead81

Great post Tom!!


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## willis7469

Great posts Tom! Part of the reason I love HTS, is that it's not uncommon for Tom to chime in and set a few things straight for us mortals. Class act!


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## needspeed52

TOM + JIM = WIN WIN WIN SITUATION, BEST OF THE BEST:T
Cheers Jeff.........A proud PSA sub(s) owner


----------



## Audiohallick

Just ordered 2 XV15's to replace my Polk psw505's can't wait to they get here!!!:hsd::hsd::hsd:


----------



## ALMFamily

Audiohallick said:


> Just ordered 2 XV15's to replace my Polk psw505's can't wait to they get here!!!:hsd::hsd::hsd:


Congrats - looking forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## willis7469

+1
I would love a pair of those bad boys! The 505s are nice, but hang on tight!


----------



## mdanderson

Came across this article in Sound and Vision by Brent Butterworth where he mentions Tom of PSA as well as some other sub afficionados.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/subwoofers-guts-and-glory


----------



## Saturn94

mdanderson said:


> Came across this article in Sound and Vision by Brent Butterworth where he mentions Tom of PSA as well as some other sub afficionados.
> 
> http://www.soundandvision.com/content/subwoofers-guts-and-glory


Thanks for the link.

That's the first time I've seen a pic of Tom. Nice to put a face to the man with whom I've exchanged many, many emails.


----------



## Bear123

30" of PSA muscle ordered....XS30 expected to ship by monday!


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## Saturn94

Bear123 said:


> 30" of PSA muscle ordered....XS30 expected to ship by monday!


 :laugh:


----------



## TheLaw612

Bear123 said:


> 30" of PSA muscle ordered....XS30 expected to ship by monday!


Don't you already have a PB2000? LOL 

Just curious, why didn't you order a second PB2000 instead to have two identical subs?


----------



## Audiohallick

Bear123 said:


> 30" of PSA muscle ordered....XS30 expected to ship by monday!


Still waiting on my order


----------



## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> Still waiting on my order


When and what did you order?


----------



## Audiohallick

needspeed52 said:


> When and what did you order?


Ordered 2 XV15'S on Feb 21.
The last email Tom sent was on the 28th saying they were waiting on the drivers to come in and that if all goes well they'll ship late this week.


----------



## Bear123

"_Don't you already have a PB2000? LOL 

Just curious, why didn't you order a second PB2000 instead to have two identical subs?_"

I decided to switch from the PB2000 to the XS30.

Hoping this will be a long term purchase for my living room. I felt that the benefits of dual 15" vs single 12", lower extension, and much higher output over 30Hz, would be worth the $350 price difference.

Also, I can only fit one large main sub.


----------



## TheLaw612

Bear123 said:


> I decided to switch from the PB2000 to the XS30.
> 
> Hoping this will be a long term purchase for my living room. I felt that the benefits of dual 15" vs single 12", lower extension, and much higher output over 30Hz, would be worth the $350 price difference.
> 
> Also, I can only fit one large main sub.


Oh cool, can't blame you for that. I would love to get the XS30 but I've been told to downsize from the XV15 so I just ordered dual PB1000s so hopefully they can come somewhere close to what I'm used to.


----------



## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> Ordered 2 XV15'S on Feb 21.
> The last email Tom sent was on the 28th saying they were waiting on the drivers to come in and that if all goes well they'll ship late this week.


That's good news, you're going to be very pleased when you hear these subs, they were my first duals that I purchased and they truly opened my eyes and hears what true bass was supposed to sound like. I was used to one note bass and boomy loud subwoofers, I didn't know any better. Once you get a taste and feel of the XV15s that wait will be just a memory and they will give you years of happiness. :T The only problem with PSA subs is that they are additive and you always strive for more. I don't know what you're using now but the XV15s IMO are the best sounding and value oriented subs out there. I got a ton of room gain with corner loading with mine and no noticeable distortion at high volume listening levels. I really like the sealed XS series as well but reco dual XV15s over a single XS30. Downtown the XV and XS are pretty similar, the sealed excels (output) in the 40Hz + range but with dual XV15s you'll have clean smooth output and localization is a mute point. After all this I just wanted to say congrats and enjoy, they're worth the wait. :hsd:
Cheers Jeff


----------



## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> Ordered 2 XV15'S on Feb 21.
> The last email Tom sent was on the 28th saying they were waiting on the drivers to come in and that if all goes well they'll ship late this week.


Forgot to mention, I waited four months for my Triax................I don't know if my house can withstand a second, I may have to get tornado insurance.


----------



## Bear123

TheLaw612 said:


> Oh cool, can't blame you for that. I would love to get the XS30 but I've been told to downsize from the XV15 so I just ordered dual PB1000s so hopefully they can come somewhere close to what I'm used to.


I am in a similar situation, but I went a different route. I told my wife that I was thinking about returning the PB2000 and getting the XS30. She said no.  It should ship monday


----------



## Basshead81

TheLaw612 said:


> Oh cool, can't blame you for that. I would love to get the XS30 but I've been told to downsize from the XV15 so I just ordered dual PB1000s so hopefully they can come somewhere close to what I'm used to.


You were told to downsize?


----------



## Tom V.

FYI, there was a GTG recently in Australia with many good subwoofers on hand including the XS30, Triax, and PB13_Ultra.

http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=148614&st=100

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Audiohallick said:


> Ordered 2 XV15'S on Feb 21.
> The last email Tom sent was on the 28th saying they were waiting on the drivers to come in and that if all goes well they'll ship late this week.



The Power-X 15" driver shipment is due to arrive tomorrow so we'll have a good number of orders fulfilled by the end of the business day tomorrow. We'll be working all weekend to catch up with all other outstanding orders so everyone currently ordered should see shipping notices on Friday or Monday. This doesn't include the Triax orders which will all ship later in the week most likely (12th -14th).

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## billy p

Tom V. said:


> FYI, there was a GTG recently in Australia with many good subwoofers on hand including the XS30, Triax, and PB13_Ultra.
> 
> http://www.dtvforum.info/index.php?showtopic=148614&st=100
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Most enjoyable to read an entire tread discussing PSA products without a certain detractor derailing... like he has done in many others local threads. I only have the SB13u on hand....for my current application/HT the XS is way more impactful the SQ difference when both playing is really non existent...IMO


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## TheLaw612

Basshead81 said:


> You were told to downsize?


My wife...requested it... Gotta keep the Mrs happy. It'll be nice to experience duals though. If they don't do it I want to try the XS15.


----------



## Tom V.

billy p said:


> Most enjoyable to read an entire tread discussing PSA products without a certain detractor derailing... like he has done in many others local threads. I only have the SB13u on hand....for my current application/HT the XS is way more impactful the SQ difference when both playing is really non existent...IMO


 
You just have to assume most folks react like this as they read his latest rants...

http://i.imgur.com/41E21OP.gif

Life is just too short to worry too much about guys like him. I'm reminded of World's Fastest Indian...

“It’s not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could’ve done them better – the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.”- Theodore Roosevelt as quoted in World’s Fastest Indian 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## needspeed52

Tom V. said:


> You just have to assume most folks react like this as they read his latest rants...
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/41E21OP.gif
> 
> Life is just too short to worry too much about guys like him. I'm reminded of World's Fastest Indian...
> 
> “It’s not the critic that counts, not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles or where the doer of deeds could’ve done them better – the credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.”- Theodore Roosevelt as quoted in World’s Fastest Indian
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


A picture is worth a thousand words Tom, excellent comparison to him:T


----------



## Audiohallick

To anyone who's received their sub(s) does FedEx call to schedule delivery and if so do you recall if they called the day of or a day before?


----------



## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> To anyone who's received their sub(s) does FedEx call to schedule delivery and if so do you recall if they called the day of or a day before?


My experience with FedEx has been that they call the day before delivery. Are you getting a PSA sub delivered by FedEx, the reason I ask, I think they use R&L Carriers now, don't quote me on that tho.


----------



## Audiohallick

needspeed52 said:


> My experience with FedEx has been that they call the day before delivery. Are you getting a PSA sub delivered by FedEx, the reason I ask, I think they use R&L Carriers now, don't quote me on that tho.


The tracking number is for FedEx, my expected delivery date is tomorrow 3/12/14 but so far no call from them.
Wish I could take the day off but we're short staffed this week.


----------



## Bear123

I received my XS30 today, along with great service from PSA following up on the shipment to make sure delivery went well, and that I should shoot an email if I needed any help with setup.

First impression after setting it up was with music. This thing has boatloads of mid and upper bass for music, you can really feel the impact on this one...exactly what I was hoping for to complement my bookshelf speakers.

Here are a couple of graphs. The first one is just to show how low this thing can dig in my 2525 cu.ft room. But with limited placement options the best I can get so far with a fairly flat response everywhere else is about 15 Hz as the second chart shows. Closing my French Doors to my dining room lowers the drop off point of the second graph to 13.5


----------



## pddufrene

Bear123 said:


> I received my XS30 today, along with great service from PSA following up on the shipment to make sure delivery went well, and that I should shoot an email if I needed any help with setup.
> 
> First impression after setting it up was with music. This thing has boatloads of mid and upper bass for music, you can really feel the impact on this one...exactly what I was hoping for to complement my bookshelf speakers.
> 
> Here are a couple of graphs. The first one is just to show how low this thing can dig in my 2525 cu.ft room. But with limited placement options the best I can get so far with a fairly flat response everywhere else is about 15 Hz as the second chart shows. Closing my French Doors to my dining room lowers the drop off point of the second graph to 13.5


Awesome! I have a XV15, I've been having it for a little over 6 months now. Believe me when I say this, it will get even better in time. My XV15 really went into beast mode about a month ago, it's like a whole different sub than what I first start with. Enjoy your toy!


----------



## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> The tracking number is for FedEx, my expected delivery date is tomorrow 3/12/14 but so far no call from them.
> Wish I could take the day off but we're short staffed this week.


I would call them to confirm delivery, you can find the phone # for inquiries and deliveries, I think signature is required, correct?
http://www.fedex.com/us/customersupport/call/phonemenu.html

Hope this helps, have your shipping number handy


----------



## Audiohallick

needspeed52 said:


> I would call them to confirm delivery, you can find the phone # for inquiries and deliveries, I think signature is required, correct?
> http://www.fedex.com/us/customersupport/call/phonemenu.html
> 
> Hope this helps, have your shipping number handy


Thanks I'll give em a call now!


----------



## Bear123

pddufrene said:


> Awesome! I have a XV15, I've been having it for a little over 6 months now. Believe me when I say this, it will get even better in time. My XV15 really went into beast mode about a month ago, it's like a whole different sub than what I first start with. Enjoy your toy!



Nice. That reminds me, I remember another XS30 owner who said he has had to turn the gain down twice on his sub once it broke in.


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## Audiohallick

Subs are here!
First thought was these things are HUGE!
No time to listen yet have to get back to the job.


----------



## TheLaw612

Audiohallick said:


> Subs are here!
> First thought was these things are HUGE!
> No time to listen yet have to get back to the job.


This is always the best feeling! When I first got my XV15 a couple years ago I was shocked at its size but then I quickly got used to it. 

Pretty soon you'll be ready for another sub to add to the mix.


----------



## Audiohallick

TheLaw612 said:


> This is always the best feeling! When I first got my XV15 a couple years ago I was shocked at its size but then I quickly got used to it.
> 
> Pretty soon you'll be ready for another sub to add to the mix.


The wife made it pretty clear that this is the LAST "Big black box" to enter our house, so I'll be enjoying these for the foreseeable future:rofl:


----------



## padgman1

Nice space for HT viewing...........I think you have PLENTY of room for both of those XV-15's. Is it just me, or does the speaker on the pedestal in the background look almost as deep as your subwoofer?


----------



## Audiohallick

padgman1 said:


> Nice space for HT viewing...........I think you have PLENTY of room for both of those XV-15's. Is it just me, or does the speaker on the pedestal in the background look almost as deep as your subwoofer?


Thanks! Now that you mention it, it does look like it in that picture lol. It's a Polk monitor 40, 13" deep.


----------



## padgman1

Audiohallick said:


> Thanks! Now that you mention it, it does look like it in that picture lol. It's a Polk monitor 40, 13" deep.


That's pretty deep for a monitor............my Arx A1b's are only 10.25 inches deep and I think it's pretty deep, especially on the stands I had them on...........

Wish I had a room in my house to fix up like you do..........all occupied with other people or items.........


----------



## Basshead81

Audiohallick said:


> View attachment 47395
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 47396
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 47397
> 
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 47398
> 
> Subs are here!
> First thought was these things are HUGE!
> No time to listen yet have to get back to the job.


Congrats!! Just a observation, I would place them closer to the corners.


----------



## Audiohallick

Basshead81 said:


> Congrats!! Just a observation, I would place them closer to the corners.


Haven't tried w the new subs yet but w the old polks the bass was extremely boomy when in that corner. I'll play around this weekend when I'll have more time.


----------



## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> Congrats!! Just a observation, I would place them closer to the corners.


I have to agree, closer to corners and and back wall, huge difference in room gain and output.


----------



## Basshead81

Audiohallick said:


> Haven't tried w the new subs yet but w the old polks the bass was extremely boomy when in that corner. I'll play around this weekend when I'll have more time.


Thats because they are Polks...Trust me I went from dual psw505's to triple XV15's. They are far from boomy and 2 of them are on each side of the couch corner loaded.


----------



## Audiohallick

Basshead81 said:


> Thats because they are Polks...Trust me I went from dual psw505's to triple XV15's. They are far from boomy and 2 of them are on each side of the couch corner loaded.


Ok I'm game, so behind the tv is a no go...









To the left of my sitting area is wide open..









And as you saw earlier this is behind my seats..









So unless I'm wrong I don't really have many placement options. So if I put one in that back corner where do I put the other one?


----------



## Basshead81

One in the corner by the right rear surround speaker and the other in the corner over by the lamp.


----------



## Audiohallick

Unfortunately that's not an option for me, she's already on my case about moving the subs thats sitting over there now.


----------



## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> Unfortunately that's not an option for me, she's already on my case about moving the subs thats sitting over there now.


Please forgive me for saying this but unless you place the dual XV15s properly, you just wasted $1600. Proper placement is imperative to accurate and maximum output, just try Bass81's reco and see what happens.......at least get the one sub in that corner where the right surround speaker is, otherwise just use the Polk sub(s). Sorry to be so blunt but you just dished out some serious cash for dual XV15s, don't you want to get your moneys worth. You can put one in the right corner and try the other along the left wall, keep moving it till you can hear them smoothing out and no localization. I believe you should have started with one XV15 considering your placement restrictions, my man these ain't no Polk subs, sorry.:T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## willis7469

It's not a terribly large space. Maybe a co-location? I've seen that work.


----------



## Audiohallick

I've moved one to the corner by the right surround and yes it made a HUGE difference in output. This weekend I'll play around with other placement options with the 2nd sub to try and kill the localization. I think I might be able to get one behind the tv on the opposite corner(behind left front speaker)


----------



## willis7469

Audiohallick said:


> I've moved one to the corner by the right surround and yes it made a HUGE difference in output. This weekend I'll play around with other placement options with the 2nd sub to try and kill the localization. I think I might be able to get one behind the tv on the opposite corner(behind left front speaker)


what are you crossed at? I also have two subs behind my MLP. I had to cross at 60, before they "went away", and sometimes I can still tell. (Psychosomatic? Maybe) I know 80 is "the number", but sometimes it's just not. I'd stuff em both right rear and see! Good luck!


----------



## Audiohallick

willis7469 said:


> what are you crossed at? I also have two subs behind my MLP. I had to cross at 60, before they "went away", and sometimes I can still tell. (Psychosomatic? Maybe) I know 80 is "the number", but sometimes it's just not. I'd stuff em both right rear and see! Good luck!


Thanks, crossed at 80 right now. I currently have the both in that corner but I won't be able to play around anymore tonight as the kids are readying for bed.


----------



## willis7469

Lol...understood.


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## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> Thanks, crossed at 80 right now. I currently have the both in that corner but I won't be able to play around anymore tonight as the kids are readying for bed.


I knew you would see a great improvement in output corner loaded, if possible stack the other on top, I did this with dual XS30s and was blown away with corner loading. Set each sub at 72 dB on your spl meter and see how they sound stacked, you could always adjust trim levels for each sub to get your output to the desired level, I like to run hot 4-5 dB. Use the sub's gain to get the 72 dB start level of each sub with receiver's level for sub output at 0 or lower, I don't like to raise my subs levels in my receiver past 0, in other words on the + side with the receiver's trim level. With your mains I would stay at xover 80Hz.
Cheers Jeff


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## willis7469

I forgot to mention stacking them. That's a good idea. Only thing is they might look more imposing, and I know WAF is important. I'm also curious as to how "localizable" they'll be for YOU at 80hz. Mine let me know when I'm that high.


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> I forgot to mention stacking them. That's a good idea. Only thing is they might look more imposing, and I know WAF is important. I'm also curious as to how "localizable" they'll be for YOU at 80hz. Mine let me know when I'm that high.


When I had the XS30s stacked in the right front corner crossed at 80Hz there was no localization at all, I even tried lower at 60Hz, same results. I achieved about 6dB increase in output with them stacked. The cabs on PSA subs are so inert you could stack them and place a vase on the top sub and it will not rattle:T I don't think the WAF would be that imposing with dual XV15s stacked for the OP,they will be out of the way setup like that. The rubber footers are perfect for stacking :hsd:
Cheers Jeff


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> When I had the XS30s stacked in the right front corner crossed at 80Hz there was no localization at all, I even tried lower at 60Hz, same results. I achieved about 6dB increase in output with them stacked. The cabs on PSA subs are so inert you could stack them and place a vase on the top sub and it will not rattle:T I don't think the WAF would be that imposing with dual XV15s stacked for the OP,they will be out of the way setup like that. The rubber footers are perfect for stacking :hsd: Cheers Jeff


hi speed, the only reason I keep going to localizing is cause they are behind him, and mine are too. I've had a little trouble is all. You also mentioned yours in the right front, and if the OP could do that I think no matter how he did it, it would be smoother. I really like the stacking idea, and it might even look a little cleaner! That's one reason I like my cylinders!
However, if I could twist my WAF a little, I'd like to stack 2 xv15s in each of my 4corners!!!
Cheers!


----------



## willis7469

willis7469 said:


> hi speed, the only reason I keep going to localizing is cause they are behind him, and mine are too. I've had a little trouble is all. You also mentioned yours in the right front, and if the OP could do that I think no matter how he did it, it would be smoother. I really like the stacking idea, and it might even look a little cleaner! That's one reason I like my cylinders! However, if I could twist my WAF a little, I'd like to stack 2 xv15s in each of my 4corners!!! Cheers!


Not usually that tight to the wall, but I've been experimenting.


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## Audiohallick

Well.....I'm sitting here watching War of the world's and well I guess saying the subs pressurized the room is an understatement.











The wife will not be happy about this at all.


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## willis7469

Wow! I guess! I've been "that guy" before too, so plz forgive me laughing histerically. (With you, not at you) that is Awesome!!!!


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## Mike0206

Uh.........that's awesome!!! My room is way to big to even rattle a window let alone knock one out. In all fairness though I have no where near the subbage you guys have.


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## Audiohallick

The house 40 years old and these front windows are the only ones that haven't been replaced yet. The bright side is that we've already scheduled to have all four replaced we just have to wait till they get made and installed, somewhere around 1st half of April.


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## needspeed52

Audiohallick said:


> Well.....I'm sitting here watching War of the world's and well I guess saying the subs pressurized the room is an understatement.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 47456
> 
> 
> The wife will not be happy about this at all.


That's to be expected with PSA subs, I can't think (IMO) a better value, performance to price subwoofer than the XV15, buy better windows :T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> hi speed, the only reason I keep going to localizing is cause they are behind him, and mine are too. I've had a little trouble is all. You also mentioned yours in the right front, and if the OP could do that I think no matter how he did it, it would be smoother. I really like the stacking idea, and it might even look a little cleaner! That's one reason I like my cylinders!
> However, if I could twist my WAF a little, I'd like to stack 2 xv15s in each of my 4corners!!!
> Cheers!


I'm sorry, I keep forgetting the subs are behind the LP, that sounds like a winner to me 8 XV15s, I know a guy who has the same configuration, only he has 8 Triaxs stacked like that:coocoo:
Cheers Jeff


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> I'm sorry, I keep forgetting the subs are behind the LP, that sounds like a winner to me 8 XV15s, I know a guy who has the same configuration, only he has 8 Triaxs stacked like that:coocoo: Cheers Jeff


wow! That's what I'm talkin about! What kind of system does he have to keep up with those?...I need a new job


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## willis7469

Audiohallick said:


> The house 40 years old and these front windows are the only ones that haven't been replaced yet. The bright side is that we've already scheduled to have all four replaced we just have to wait till they get made and installed, somewhere around 1st half of April.


well, one more on the plus side, you couldn't have probably timed it any better! Maybe even saved money on demo? Lol
How bad was the fallout? (Wife I mean)


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## Audiohallick

willis7469 said:


> well, one more on the plus side, you couldn't have probably timed it any better! Maybe even saved money on demo? Lol
> How bad was the fallout? (Wife I mean)


Actually it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. She had a bad day at the job so she talked about that when she got home, didn't even mention the window!


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## willis7469

That's good. It's only glass. Too bad about her day. Safe to say u be lovin ur new subs?


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## Tom V.

Audiohallick said:


> Well.....I'm sitting here watching War of the world's and well I guess saying the subs pressurized the room is an understatement.
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 47456
> 
> 
> The wife will not be happy about this at all.



Yikes! Not quite the type of evidence we like to see regarding our products. Please be sure to double check the rest of the windows so this isn't repeated.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## willis7469

Tom V. said:


> Yikes! Not quite the type of evidence we like to see regarding our products. Please be sure to double check the rest of the windows so this isn't repeated. Tom V. Power Sound Audio


This is most likely true. But what a statement!!! Makes me think of the "dish" commercial with the "movie", in the house destroying everything. Hmmmm...


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## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> wow! That's what I'm talkin about! What kind of system does he have to keep up with those?...I need a new job


I have no idea, must be be pretty high end stuff to spend that much on eight Triaxs, and a very large theater.


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## needspeed52

Tom V. said:


> Yikes! Not quite the type of evidence we like to see regarding our products. Please be sure to double check the rest of the windows so this isn't repeated.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


How do you like that, one of the dynamic duos chime in on a broken window, talk about keeping up on what's going on with their products. I'd like everyone to know Jim is a really good guy to talk to with any questions you might have as well, Tom does most of the forum stuff while Jim is the quiet man, I fill they are both friends of mine and have known them forever. :T
Cheers Jeff


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## Basshead81

Sweet... knockin widows out of the wall.


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## willis7469

Haha! I was just reminded of a scene in D.C. Cab. Gary buseys character puts a new system in his cab, and goes crazy while showing it off and blows out all the windows. Maybe one of the worst movies ever, but I loved it when I was a kid.


----------



## TheLaw612

Audiohallick said:


> Well.....I'm sitting here watching War of the world's and well I guess saying the subs pressurized the room is an understatement.
> 
> The wife will not be happy about this at all.


Wow this sucks but is pretty awesome at the same time haha. Good thing you had already planned on getting them replaced! If this isn't a ringing endorsement for PSA subs then I don't know what is. They should put it up on the website hah.


----------



## BeeMan458

willis7469 said:


> However, if I could twist my WAF a little, I'd like to stack 2 xv15s in each of my 4corners!!!


Maybe a set of four XV30fs or a pair of Triax subwoofers on opposite walls? 

(one placed nearfield......of course)


----------



## Basshead81

4 XV30F's should be fun.


----------



## BeeMan458

Basshead81 said:


> 4 XV30F's should be fun.


...:bigsmile:


----------



## willis7469

BeeMan458 said:


> Maybe a set of four XV30fs or a pair of Triax subwoofers on opposite walls?  (one placed nearfield......of course)


hey Bee, the only reason I said I would like to do the quad stack of xv15s, was because we were talking about the OP stacking his in the corner too, not necessarily what I'd do if staring at zero. This is without checking numbers, but off hand I think the xv15s in the corners would add 500 watts rms into each corner over the xv30s, but would be less fashionable. (Arguably). The triax would be an obvious GoTo, but at 12grand...(for 4) Yikes! 8 xv15s would be similar in price (#s are from memory, forgive me), to 2 triax's. For most rooms, this would be enough. However with only two, the response curve might suffer, but with 8000 watts rms, I think most would accept that. ...for awhile lol.


----------



## Audiohallick

I bought a SPL meter from radio shack over the weekend to (hopefully) help with sub placement. Do I just run pink noise or should I play a certain frequency or sweeps? What's the best way to determine the best sub location?


----------



## BeeMan458

willis7469 said:


> ...but off hand I think the xv15s in the corners would add 500 watts rms into each corner over the xv30s, but would be less fashionable. (Arguably).


Definitely, in my opinion, the XV30f gets the cool factor nod but agreeing with you, a pair of stacked XV15s would have a bit more total output. How much, I can't say.

IIRC, basshead81 has three XV15's and reference level playback, with headroom to spare, again IIRC, is not something he concerns himself with. Maybe he'll be kind enough to post an image of his listening space.


----------



## BeeMan458

Audiohallick said:


> What's the best way to determine the best sub location?


The simplest is to do the sub crawl.

Place the subwoofer on the seat of the (MLP) main listening position. Play some bass heavy tracks. Get on your hands and knees and crawl around the room. Where the bass sounds the best, that's the best starting point to place the subwoofer.

Another suggestion would be to download, install and get a freeware copy of REW up and running so you can measure the acoustic of the room and see how this subwoofer placement is working out when measured.


----------



## needspeed52

Could someone explain to me how to use a disc (ie Disney WOW) to generate the test tones to calibrate speaker and sub levels. Once the disc is playing the tones, how do you adjust the levels for each speaker, I don't think I have this option on my Panny BD 500 player, please excuse my ignorance of subject matter, I don't have a clue as to how to use the Disney WOW disc for audio test tones, I can get to the menu and the tones are generated for the first left speaker, I just don't know what to do from there, the manual isn't very specific how to proceed from there, please help. :help:
Cheers, Jeff


----------



## willis7469

Hey Jeff, those adjustments will be made in your rcvr. I've never used the WOW disk, but have used another. I'm waiting in the exam room for my doc, but thought I'd chime in so you know to set levels in the rcvr, not ur player. I'll chime in later if nobody else does 1st.


----------



## GusGus748s

needspeed52 said:


> Could someone explain to me how to use a disc (ie Disney WOW) to generate the test tones to calibrate speaker and sub levels. Once the disc is playing the tones, how do you adjust the levels for each speaker, I don't think I have this option on my Panny BD 500 player, please excuse my ignorance of subject matter, I don't have a clue as to how to use the Disney WOW disc for audio test tones, I can get to the menu and the tones are generated for the first left speaker, I just don't know what to do from there, the manual isn't very specific how to proceed from there, please help. :help:
> Cheers, Jeff


I've got the same question. What I did was use the test tone and measure each speaker. Thereafter, I went in to the AVR's settings and increase / decrease the dB's. Thereafter, I went back to the WOW test tone and measure again. I did this until each speaker was at 80 dB's. I took forever!

Or you can use the AVR's pink noise and does this without going back and forth.


----------



## needspeed52

GusGus748s said:


> I've got the same question. What I did was use the test tone and measure each speaker. Thereafter, I went in to the AVR's settings and increase / decrease the dB's. Thereafter, I went back to the WOW test tone and measure again. I did this until each speaker was at 80 dB's. I took forever!
> 
> Or you can use the AVR's pink noise and does this without going back and forth.


Thanks Gus but there has to be another way.


----------



## willis7469

Audiohallick wrote:
What's the best way to determine the best sub location?
+1 on the sub crawl. You WILL feel dumb but it will be worth it. Then you can start fine tuning.


----------



## GusGus748s

needspeed52 said:


> Thanks Gus but there has to be another way.


Well, that will depend on your AVR. With my Pioneer SC-1522-K, I've got to get in to the settings to do it. So, I had to go back and forth.


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Hey Jeff, those adjustments will be made in your rcvr. I've never used the WOW disk, but have used another. I'm waiting in the exam room for my doc, but thought I'd chime in so you know to set levels in the rcvr, not ur player. I'll chime in later if nobody else does 1st.


Thanks Willis, I anxiously await your detailed explanation as to how to proceed, I don't understand the receiver part, if you go into the receiver to adjust the levels won't the receivers test tones also be output? I'll wait for you to get back, hope all is well at the doctors my friend. 
Thanks Jeff


----------



## Audiohallick

BeeMan458 said:


> The simplest is to do the sub crawl.
> 
> Place the subwoofer on the seat of the (MLP) main listening position. Play some bass heavy tracks. Get on your hands and knees and crawl around the room. Where the bass sounds the best, that's the best starting point to place the subwoofer.
> 
> Another suggestion would be to download, install and get a freeware copy of REW up and running so you can measure the acoustic of the room and see how this subwoofer placement is working out when measured.





willis7469 said:


> Audiohallick wrote:
> What's the best way to determine the best sub location?
> +1 on the sub crawl. You WILL feel dumb but it will be worth it. Then you can start fine tuning.



I've tried that before and it seems like anywhere in the back of the room (behind seats) is the loudest. I read everywhere and from responses from you nice folks that corner placement is the best. Now the reason I was trying to see if using a SPL would help me any is because to my ears using just one sub, I don't notice any change in output with the sub being anywhere behind my seats. Now I must admit that when doing the sub crawl I don't have the volume cranked as I don't want another window to break lol. So should I just wait until the new windows have been installed to do any further testing?

Sorry for the brick wall of text


----------



## willis7469

Yeah I think I'd wait til the windows are in for critical measuring. Especially if you don't have any glass in the opening you made. (Inner chuckle)  that will change the "size" of the room greatly. Also, the construction of the new windows will effect how the sound waves act in the room. Ie: thicker glass, frame installation, I think will re-enforce in room response. Also part of the reason for corner loading is that will excite all of the room modes, usually making it easier to EQ. Also when sub crawling, you want to listen for the best quality bass, as well as output. Otherwise it could turn boomy. I gotta run, but I'll check in later.


----------



## BeeMan458

Audiohallick said:


> I've tried that before and it seems like anywhere in the back of the room (behind seats) is the loudest.


Behind the MLP is the best place to start.


----------



## Audiohallick

willis7469 said:


> Yeah I think I'd wait til the windows are in for critical measuring. Especially if you don't have any glass in the opening you made......


Good call lol. It's not completely open though, not sure how to explain.....There is still a window there, but there was another pane of glass that is outside (or maybe just on the other side???) and that is what fell. I looks like the brackets that held it in place all just snapped:dontknow:


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> Thanks Willis, I anxiously await your detailed explanation as to how to proceed, I don't understand the receiver part, if you go into the receiver to adjust the levels won't the receivers test tones also be output? I'll wait for you to get back, hope all is well at the doctors my friend.  Thanks Jeff


Hey, thx for the well wishes. So far, so good!...(so what. Megadeth) 
First off, yes the test tones will be output by the rcvr. These are perfectly fine to set levels with. If you have audyssey, of mcacc, or ypao, this is obviously much easier. If not, I would just use the tones on the rcvr. GusGus mentioned goin back and forth, between disk and rcvr, and double checking the results, but I wouldn't justify spending the time. Think if it like this: Audyssey uses the same tones. The most valuable way (IMO) is plotting your response curve. To use CDs, and DVDs with tones, play each frequency, and mark them down, (free 1/4" graph paper download is good) then you can see the in room response. This is valuable for manually EQing a system. If can use rew, I highly recommend it. In short, just use the rcvr. If you need help with that, I have rcvrs by pioneer, onkyo, and Yamaha, so I might be able to walk ya through. Was this helpful?
Will


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Hey, thx for the well wishes. So far, so good!...(so what. Megadeth)
> First off, yes the test tones will be output by the rcvr. These are perfectly fine to set levels with. If you have audyssey, of mcacc, or ypao, this is obviously much easier. If not, I would just use the tones on the rcvr. GusGus mentioned goin back and forth, between disk and rcvr, and double checking the results, but I wouldn't justify spending the time. Think if it like this: Audyssey uses the same tones. The most valuable way (IMO) is plotting your response curve. To use CDs, and DVDs with tones, play each frequency, and mark them down, (free 1/4" graph paper download is good) then you can see the in room response. This is valuable for manually EQing a system. If can use rew, I highly recommend it. In short, just use the rcvr. If you need help with that, I have rcvrs by pioneer, onkyo, and Yamaha, so I might be able to walk ya through. Was this helpful?
> Will


Yes it was helpful, I have an Onkyo with XT, when using it's test tones with my Galaxy CM-140 SPL the readouts are jumping all over the place, when I had the WOW test tones playing the spl meter was very consistent with it's reading, but I still don't know how to adjust the levels of the WOW disc, raise or lower them to get to the 80dB WOW specifies, the manual says to use the BD player's remote to adjust the levels but I don't see that on my remote. I'll just stick with the receivers test tones for now and maybe run Audy, I'm not real fond of Audyssey.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## BeeMan458

Do you have your sound meter set to "C" weight and "Slow" response?

As to setting your levels, if you're not already onto this, you want to set your subwoofer's gain setting first at 75dB, then run Audyssey.

Set the subwoofer's levels, at the AVR menu level, to +/-0dB.

In the menu, go to speakers and in "manual" start the pink noise test tone, making sure the test tone is set to +/-0dB. With this done, at the (MLP) main listening position, set the gain to 75dB. If you have two subwoofers, set each gain to ~72dB so the combined output of both subwoofers is ~75dB to 78dB.

Run Audyssey XT. And when finished, check the results with REW.


----------



## needspeed52

BeeMan458 said:


> Do you have your sound meter set to "C" weight and "Slow" response?
> 
> As to setting your levels, if you're not already onto this, you want to set your subwoofer's gain setting first at 75dB, then run Audyssey.
> 
> Set the subwoofer's levels, at the AVR menu level, to +/-0dB.
> 
> In the menu, go to speakers and in "manual" start the pink noise test tone, making sure the test tone is set to +/-0dB. With this done, at the (MLP) main listening position, set the gain to 75dB. If you have two subwoofers, set each gain to ~72dB so the combined output of both subwoofers is ~75dB to 78dB.
> 
> Run Audyssey XT. And when finished, check the results with REW.


I do know how to do all of the above and yes I have the meter set that way. I want to manually set the levels with a SPL meter and the Disney WOW pink noise test tones and don't know how to do that.


----------



## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> I want to manually set the levels with a SPL meter and the Disney WOW pink noise test tones and don't know how to do that.


Good luck with that one.

What's the benefit of using "Disney WOW pink noise test tones?"

The reason I ask, all I know is Audyssey and the pink noise provided by the AVR. I finally found happiness with an Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT equipped AVR.


----------



## needspeed52

BeeMan458 said:


> Good luck with that one.
> 
> What's the benefit of using "Disney WOW pink noise test tones?"
> 
> The reason I ask, all I know is Audyssey and the pink noise provided by the AVR. I finally found happiness with an Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT equipped AVR.


I just want to know how to do it, that's all. What do other people do that buy pink noise test tone discs to manually calibrate their speaker and sub levels. I'm happy that you are happy with your XT32 with dual sub EQ receiver. I just personally don't care for Audyssey or any other RC software, to many it is everything, to me it's not. It just bothers me they provide such a cheap calibration mic with such a sophisticated software program such as Audy XT32/SUBEQ HT. My room is perfect to begin with, I don't want to correct anything that's not broken
Cheers Jeff


----------



## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> My room is perfect to begin with, I don't want to correct anything that's not broken


Not being argumentative, have you downloaded and gotten a copy of REW up and running? If you have, what are the graphs looking like?

The reason I ask, folks say their room sound perfect and then they run REW. My whole sonic world was turned upside down when I first ran REW. I had no idea our integration efforts were so terrible. In fact, I put so much effort into learning about and fixing the problems, I now get a bit nauseous when I see many of the terrible graphs that are posted and I'm envious of those graphs that are better because what we have is as good as I'm able to make it without going to room treatments. And the WAF has made her position perfectly clear, there are not going be any room treatments in her living room. Besides, despite comments to the contrary, to us, bass room treatments that work are not aesthetically pleasing and decent ones that do what they're hired to do, are expensive.

As to manually adjusting the levels, it should be pretty straight forward. Place all the main menu speaker sliders at +/-0dB. Run the WoW provided pink noise generator and set the subwoofer level via the gain on the back of the subwoofer so the output is 95dB. As to the rest of the front speakers, run the test tone generator, main menu speaker sliders set to +/- 0dB, measure the output at the MLP and take speaker output measurements. After getting a reading, adjust the speaker sliders up or down as needed to acquire a combined reading of 85dB.

Due to the nature of LFE sound, the requirements for subwoofers is 10dB higher than the rest of the speaker system.

In the case of your front three, after level adjustment, individual speaker readings should be approximately 78dB to 80dB, so the combined reading of all three speakers will be 85dB.

When you run the test tones, with the MCV set to -20dBfs, you should have a combined speaker output of 85dB and the subwoofer, run independent of the speakers, should be 95dB.. When you crank it up to +/-0dBfs, you should have a combined speaker output of 105dB and a independent subwoofer reading of 115dB or reference level output. The important thing is you achieve the 85dB and 95dB output numbers. Not all systems are capable of full on, continuous, reference level playback. And the harder amplifiers are driven to achieve this level of output, the greater the chances are of introducing distortion.

(on the above matter, i have no idea how much you know or don't know)

(if i lunched anything up in my above, forgive me for errors and omissions. anybody is welcome to offer corrections or additions to my above)


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 wrote:
My room is perfect to begin with, I don't want to correct anything that's not broken
Then leave it alone! Just kidding!! Just kidding!!
Hey Jeff, been one of those days for me...
Anyhow, my understanding of the WOW disk, is that is mostly built for video calibration. Similar to the "Spears and munsil" disk, but with test tones added for good measure. One of your questions was, how do people calibrate audio with these? I'm pretty certain they don't. What I believe is, they are used for checking channel levels, and equalizing with some kind of dsp. And I agree that audyssey isn't a "be all, end all". It is invaluable to me, but even still, every time I run it, I have to manually tweak my levels by a couple db. This is only cause I trust my spl meter. 
In the case of your channel levels, adjusting th in your BD player would likely not be recommended. One reason being that, the change would not be global. Meaning: even if you set the levels there, whenever you change sources, they will be skewed. Therefore, you'll want to use your rcvr. I'll give the procedure as it is for my Onkyo. 
On the remote, press the receiver button. (Should be with the component select buttons on top)
Then press the setup button. (Bottom left of the big navigation ring)
Go to speaker setup (mines #2)
Go to level calibration (4)
It will then open the level cal window. Here you can scroll through the speakers and set their levels. It will prob start on the left front, and will automatically output the white noise tone. With your meter in the listen position set to "C" weight, "slow" as Beeman said, adjust the LF(left front) to 75db. You may have to set it + or - value. This is because the rcvr wants to show you 75db, but due to placement, and speaker efficiency, the value may above or below zero. This is no matter. What counts is what the spl meter says. Now move on to the rest of your speakers. Set them all for 75db. 
That's what I've got for now. Puttin kids to bed. I'll be back. How about phase adjustments? 
...that's a lot of typing on a phone!


----------



## BeeMan458

A point of correction. If doing it manually, one is suppose to set the levels to 85dB as Audyssey takes this difference into consideration when it sets the sub and speaker settings.

My understanding, setting subwoofers to 75dB, makes the assumption that the individual is using room correction and bass management software.


----------



## willis7469

BeeMan458 said:


> A point of correction. If doing it manually, one is suppose to set the levels to 85dB as Audyssey takes this difference into consideration when it sets the sub and speaker settings. My understanding, setting subwoofers to 75dB, makes the assumption that the individual is using room correction and bass management software.


Hi bee, I may misunderstand, the process, but in my mind is something like... Set levels to 75. All channels. This is the volume that the rcvr puts out with the white noise. (And I think why audyssey says put the sub to 75) Deeper in the rcvr menu is a 5, 10, or 15 db offset for connected analog devices that have lowered LFE output by default, and the room correction, and bass management refer to EQ, and crossover settings. ???


----------



## willis7469

Btw Jeff, I've been looking for links to attach for you to reference also. There aren't many, and I think that's cause there really isn't a good (simple) way to set levels with an outside source like a disk. One thing I THINK you can do is set phase with it. I looked through the list of contents, and I think there is a set of tones that will play from your mains, and sub at the same time. What you'd do is play this, and move the phase switch/ knob on your sub til you get the most output. If you run rew you can split hairs further, but it's good enough to put you in the ballpark. I also read that a reviewer of the WOW disk noted that it's test tones are 10 dbs hotter than the rcvr. If you set for 75 and double check with the disk, you'll find them at 85. This could play into what BeeMan was saying about setting to 85db. 
Calibrating to 'reference level' is mostly for movies although getting each channel equal benefits all sources. As a typical movie soundtrack has an average level of -30 dBFS and the receiver's test tones are also at that level, you want the SPL meter to show 75 dB: 75 + 30 = 105 dB = reference level. So if you calibrate to 85db, -10 would be reference level not 0. This is assuming you use the relative volume display not absolute
http://forums.audioholics.com/forum...play-0db-reference-level-how-all-related.html
Here's a good read for you. 
Overwhelmed yet? Lol
Cheers!


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## willis7469

One more thing, lol
BeeMan said: Due to the nature of LFE sound, the requirements for subwoofers is 10dB higher than the rest of the speaker system. I don't think this is true, (at least my interpretation of his statement). Different spl meters have different inaccuracies in the lower ranges, and you can find the offset curves at HTS. This is one reason to use "C" weighting. Not because of the difference in reading decibel levels, but the meter responds from 32hz-10khz vs 500hz-10khz in "a"weighting. (Bee if your reading this I'm only sharing my understanding of the process). 
Will


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## BeeMan458

willis7469 said:


> Hi bee, I may misunderstand, the process, but in my mind is something like... Set levels to 75. All channels. This is the volume that the rcvr puts out with the white noise. (And I think why audyssey says put the sub to 75) Deeper in the rcvr menu is a 5, 10, or 15 db offset for connected analog devices that have lowered LFE output by default, and the room correction, and bass management refer to EQ, and crossover settings. ???


Room correction software uses 75dB as the starting point and during the speaker chirp cycle, adjusts the subwoofer accordingly. The reason, the subwoofer has an amplifier the AVR doesn't control. In the case of the speakers, everything is done automatically. In the case of a non-room corrected setting, the user sets the speakers to 85dB and the subwoofer to 95dB.



> (Bee if your reading this I'm only sharing my understanding of the process).


Don't worry, I'm quite capable of making hash out of this sort of information as I'm not an expert but instead, the best I can claim, is being an incompetent old man who loves his home theater system and is grateful for Google. 

As to setting the sub 10dB hotter, that's according to THX specifications. I'm sure you and most are familiar with reference level standards.

*1. Speakers and amplifiers must be capable of 105dB peaks

If the playback chain is calibrated to produce 85dB for a -20dB signal at the listening position then the speakers and amplifiers could be asked to produce 105dB for a 0dB signal.

2. Subwoofers must be capable of 115dB peaks

The low frequency effects channel is handled slightly differently and has a 10dB boost relative to the other channels. The maximum SPL that subwoofers could be asked to reproduce from the low frequency effects track is therefore 115dB at the listening position.*

Where I think many get lost with the whole reference level thing, that's playback level vs peak playback level due to headroom requirements but at the same time, one can have the MVC set to +/-0dBfs and the sound track can be reproducing +65dB sound and the sound level is still reference level playback or if you will, dynamic range; from whispers in a jungle to full-on, blow up a warehouse, rumble and roll sound effects.


----------



## willis7469

Hi bee, so what about this? 
As per your link: 
"Note that the low frequency effects signal is nearly always internally set to be to be 10dB louder than that for the speakers so that the end user's life is simplified and the subwoofer is calibrated to 75dB rather than the 85dB one might expect."
Ok. My interpretation of this is that all the offset is done internally, so you don't have to set LFE channel +10 over other channels. It does the conversion in the processor, no? For me, when I calibrate for 75, all channels, onkyo sets my trims for my mains to -3.5, (example). If I set for 85db, my trims would be at -13.5. In the case of LFE channel, it's set by onkyo for -7 (@75db) If I added the 10db, my trim would be at -17db to reach the measured output of 75db that audyssey uses. (My +- is only to 15). I believe this is because audyssey uses 75 and internally adds 10db to LFE. 
What are your observations of that?


----------



## BeeMan458

Correct. You're doing fine.

If letting the AVR doing the work, then 75dB is fine. If not using room correction software, then the recommendation is 85dB as there's nothing there to compensate for the needed +10dB.

75dB with room correction software.

85dB if no room correction software.


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## needspeed52

I want to thank you guys for all the info, I am aware of most everything that was mentioned. I just wanted to add there is no way I can find using the WOW disc for spl calibration using the AVR's trim levels, to get to the trim levels in the AVR you have to select calibration which automatically over-rides the WOW test tone output, that's the only point I'm trying to make. One thing I didn't know that when using any RC, the sub level is internally raised 10dB to compensate for the 75dB starting point of running Audy or any other RC software. So setting levels manually with a SPL meter I should set the LFE channel to 85dB? So if I set all speakers to 75dB manually and LFE to 85dB, is this not running the sub 10dB hot or is that the way movie sound tracks are designed? No I don't have REW running, I am seriously thinking about it as I have most everything I need except an understanding of how to use it, which I have to say seems quite intimidating to me. I am seriously going to try XT and really give it a chance this time and see what happens, if I hear an improvement I will upgrade to a receiver with XT32 with sub EQ Well I've taken enough space and time in this forum on this topic, thanks to all whom contributed.
Cheers Jeff


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## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> So if I set all speakers to 75dB manually and LFE to 85dB, is this not running the sub 10dB hot or is that the way movie sound tracks are designed? No I don't have REW running, I am seriously thinking about it as I have most everything I need except an understanding of how to use it, which I have to say seems quite intimidating to me.


It has to do with the way we hear bass. If one looks to the "Phon Chart," they'll easily see the how and why of the LFE track being jacked up +10dB.

As to running the subs hot, if you're set to 85dB, and the subwoofer level slider is set to +/-0dB, you're set to THX specification. Anything above that is running them hot. Again, where people get in trouble, reference level for speakers is 85dB and for subs is 95dB. The rest is peak performance headroom when the action based sound track gets heated. The point being is to make sure one has plenty of headroom so the amplifiers aren't strained and amplifier based distortion isn't introduced into the listener's sound field.

As to REW and getting it up and running. Yes, it can be difficult to get set up. It was for me. Took me about a week or two to figure it out.  If you don't already have, one needs a digital sound meter they can purchase at Radio Shack and a measuring microphone to get things working. Once you get past the whole learning curve, setup thing, it's quite literally, all point and click. And the benefit in using it to dial your system in, makes the effort, well worth the effort.






.....should help with your reasonable jitters.


----------



## needspeed52

BeeMan458 said:


> It has to do with the way we hear bass. If one looks to the "Phon Chart," they'll easily see the how and why of the LFE track being jacked up +10dB.
> 
> As to running the subs hot, if you're set to 85dB, and the subwoofer level slider is set to +/-0dB, you're set to THX specification. Anything above that is running them hot. Again, where people get in trouble, reference level for speakers is 85dB and for subs is 95dB. The rest is peak performance headroom when the action based sound track gets heated. The point being is to make sure one has plenty of headroom so the amplifiers aren't strained and amplifier based distortion isn't introduced into the listener's sound field.
> 
> As to REW and getting it up and running. Yes, it can be difficult to get set up. It was for me. Took me about a week or two to figure it out.  If you don't already have, one needs a digital sound meter they can purchase at Radio Shack and a measuring microphone to get things working. Once you get past the whole learning curve, setup thing, it's quite literally, all point and click. And the benefit in using it to dial your system in, makes the effort, well worth the effort.
> 
> This YouTube video
> 
> .....should help with your reasonable jitters.



Thanks Bee, I have never set the subwoofer level slider on the + side of 0dB. So are you saying I can set my speakers at 85dB and sub at 95dB with the slider level at +/-0dB and not cause any harm and be at THX reference specs?
Jeff


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## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> Thanks Bee,...


...:bigsmile:



> ...I have never set the subwoofer level slider on the + side of 0dB. So are you saying I can set my speakers at 85dB and sub at 95dB with the slider level at +/-0dB and not cause any harm and be at THX reference specs?


Yes.

But that's the minimum THX level. Full on reference, the system needs to have a minimum of +20dB worth of headroom for each channel, including the LFE channel. Being that full on reference is too loud for my wife's listening pleasure (and most others), despite us having a full on reference capable system, most of our listening rarely exceeds 95dB to 105dB. We listen with the MVC set to -17.5dBfs.

To compensate for the lower volume, our work-around, we run the subwoofers hot +10dB and run the CC hot by +7dB. Works a treat. Dialogue is much easier to understand and there's plenty of rumble and roll, yet the subs are not in danger of being over-driven because the MVC is turned down to -17.5dBfs.


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## willis7469

BeeMan458 said:


> ...:bigsmile: Yes. But that's the minimum THX level. Full on reference, the system needs to have a minimum of +20dB worth of headroom for each channel, including the LFE channel. Being that full on reference is too loud for my wife's listening pleasure (and most others), despite us having a full on reference capable system, most of our listening rarely exceeds 95dB to 105dB. We listen with the MVC set to -17.5dBfs. To compensate for the lower volume, our work-around, we run the subwoofers hot +10dB and run the CC hot by +7dB. Works a treat. Dialogue is much easier to understand and there's plenty of rumble and roll, yet the subs are not in danger of being over-driven because the MVC is turned down to -17.5dBfs.


hi bee, so theoretically, @-17.5 on the mvc, and +10 and +7, sub and cc respectively, those two channels are actually at -7.5, and -10.5. (This is without knowing the +- of all the channel trims). 
How does this effect imaging across the front, and cohesion of the whole sound field? I ask because I've bumped my cc up for dialogue too, but found imaging across the front to suffer when handing off from the cc to mains. 
Will


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## BeeMan458

willis7469 said:


> hi bee, so theoretically, @-17.5 on the mvc, and +10 and +7, sub and cc respectively, those two channels are actually at -7.5, and -10.5. (This is without knowing the +- of all the channel trims).
> How does this effect imaging across the front, and cohesion of the whole sound field? I ask because I've bumped my cc up for dialogue too, but found imaging across the front to suffer when handing off from the cc to mains.


The other channels are at +/-0dB or where Audyssey XT32 told the receiver to set them to.

Regarding the sound field, it's a bit of a long story as to the what and why of what I've done as I've totally reset the parameters regarding speaker placement and I went to an asymmetrical placement.

Several decades ago, I went to a local performing arts center and with sound meter in hand, listened to a dress rehearsal. Of course, never having been to a dress rehearsal, I was the only one dressed up. :sarcastic:

What I took away from the experience, there isn't a sweet spot in a performing arts venue but the acoustics are neutral and have an airy quality about them as if plucking the notes, like falling leaves, out of the air. If one listens to sound in nature, there is no sweet spot and the need for a sweet spot is an artificial created sound quality.

With the above in mind, I toed our speakers out and with the eyes closed, now have a forty to eighty foot wide sound stage. And if listening to cathedral organ music, with eyes closed, at the MLP, the individual is in the cathedral.

With the placement of our speakers, the sound stage is such that it wraps the viewing screen so raising the CC levels, doesn't destroy the sound field cause I've already destroyed it. 

The two images below will show you the placement of our speakers and if you tie into my above, despite the speaker placement being in violation of today's standards, it works.

The first image is from the wife's listening position to give a feel of the diagonal placement and the second image shows the seating positions in relationship to the surround placement.

...


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## Bear123

XS30 dialed in, thought I would share the performance for anyone wondering how low they go. My room is 2525 ft3 with an open stairwell:
(this is a single XS30, the dual is a PSW110 that is filling a null at 50 Hz.) No eq below 20, that's all room gain.


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## willis7469

Wow, that looks awesome. How do you like it compared to your pb2000? (Obviously David and Goliath).


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## Bear123

Actually, for movies only, listening below reference in the -15 to -10 range, the PB2000 hit just as hard, imo, down low. My hope was that the dual 15's with more power would make up for the ported subs advantage around tune, and I think it did.

However, over 30 Hz, I would say the XS30 has _at least_ double the output. So for me it is a win. I get the same(similar) 17-30 Hz, and waaaaaaaaay more above that in the same size box.

For music, I could crank the volume up to say, -5 or so, and it sounded great with the PB2000. What I did not realize, was that output was being restricted. I could not tell because it sounded clean, a testament to the PB2000 in a way..it never sounded bad....just stopped getting louder. Now, when the XS30 steps up to the plate....WOW whole different ball game. Dramatically more bass output with music....my wife for the first time insisted I turn it down immediately as she said she felt like it was making her heart flutter.....talk about kicking you in the chest 

Obviously it digs much deeper, as the PB2000 rolled off sharply around 16-17 Hz.

Of course, there is a lot of output above 30 Hz in movies, and the XS30 really shines there.


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## BeeMan458

Sweet graph. Congratulations.

...:clap:


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## Bear123

Thanks Bee. I am actually thinking about rolling off below 16 Hz to preserve headroom. I found that under 16 produces no sound or tactile effect that I can tell, and 100 dB of output this low eats up a ton of excursion and power for basically no reason. I think I would have to get upwards of 110 dB in this area to really be noticed, and I am not inclined to spend the money required to do so. So I figure if I roll off everything under 16 I will gain tons of geadroom, keep all my impact for movies, as well as the incredible mid bass that this sub puts out 

Just for the of it, while setting up my sub, I did a 1-30 Hz stepped frequency tone at moderate volume(-15 maybe?) The woofer was reacting quite a bit even under 10 Hz, and I was sitting in an area where the response is quite boosted down low. I felt nothing until 16 Hz, at which point everything started shaking, vibrating, and rumbling.


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## BeeMan458

Please reconsider this position as there's so much to be "felt" below 16Hz. Working with your above, my solution for setting the volume was two fold. For television, we watch with the subwoofer at +3dB with the CC at +3dB. And for movies, we watch with the subwoofers at +10dB and the CC at +7dB. To compensate for running the subs hot, when watching movies, we dial the MVC back to +17.5dBfs. Artificially, this balances the three out. 

If you remember, we have a two subwoofer system, with one subwoofer placed nearfield and one on the other side of the room. In the ULF thread I've posted about, tests were done showing that nearfield, one gained +10dB in tactile sensation. In my book, that's huge.

Set up in the fashion described above, the bass wave in WWZ (hand grenade scene) was as good, if not a whole lot better than the barrel roll bass wave in "Flight of the Phoenix."

(both were crazy good)

Have your tried the "Irene" scene in "Black Hawk Down" when the boots are first running across the tarmac? Our system was a bust but we're only flat to 11Hz and you look flat well past 10Hz. The point, there's a lot of tactile sensation to be found below 16Hz.


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## willis7469

Bear123 said:


> Thanks Bee. I am actually thinking about rolling off below 16 Hz to preserve headroom. I found that under 16 produces no sound or tactile effect that I can tell, and 100 dB of output this low eats up a ton of excursion and power for basically no reason. I think I would have to get upwards of 110 dB in this area to really be noticed, and I am not inclined to spend the money required to do so. So I figure if I roll off everything under 16 I will gain tons of geadroom, keep all my impact for movies, as well as the incredible mid bass that this sub puts out  Just for the of it, while setting up my sub, I did a 1-30 Hz stepped frequency tone at moderate volume(-15 maybe?) The woofer was reacting quite a bit even under 10 Hz, and I was sitting in an area where the response is quite boosted down low. I felt nothing until 16 Hz, at which point everything started shaking, vibrating, and rumbling.


Hey bear, I think all your points are spot on, and very logical. I also agree with bee in that there is much below 16hz, and if you can get some...What I would do is re test I at the LP with the 1-30hz tones. If you have the same observations, I would spare the headroom too. Especially if it hits like you say! However, I think you said your room was around 2500 cu,ft? That's not a lot of room to pressurize, with that sub. plus I think you prob have some break in left, where it might just open up all of a sudden. Definitely experiment, and have fun with it.


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## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Hey bear, I think all your points are spot on, and very logical. I also agree with bee in that there is much below 16hz, and if you can get some...What I would do is re test I at the LP with the 1-30hz tones. If you have the same observations, I would spare the headroom too. Especially if it hits like you say! However, I think you said your room was around 2500 cu,ft? That's not a lot of room to pressurize, with that sub. plus I think you prob have some break in left, where it might just open up all of a sudden. Definitely experiment, and have fun with it.


I agree, when it opens up you will really feel it, with the Triax below 16 Hz is scary and eerie, it starts at your feet and just climbs all through your body, I call it the Tingler from an old horror film I saw when I was 12 years old, I'm 62 now Good advice Willis :T spare the headroom when you get hits like that!


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## Bear123

BeeMan458 said:


> *Please reconsider this position as there's so much to be "felt" below 16Hz.* Working with your above, my solution for setting the volume was two fold. For television, we watch with the subwoofer at +3dB with the CC at +3dB. And for movies, we watch with the subwoofers at +10dB and the CC at +7dB. To compensate for running the subs hot, when watching movies, we dial the MVC back to +17.5dBfs. Artificially, this balances the three out.
> 
> If you remember, we have a two subwoofer system, with one subwoofer placed nearfield and one on the other side of the room. In the ULF thread I've posted about, tests were done showing that nearfield, one gained +10dB in tactile sensation. In my book, that's huge.
> 
> Set up in the fashion described above, the bass wave in WWZ (hand grenade scene) was as good, if not a whole lot better than the barrel roll bass wave in "Flight of the Phoenix."
> 
> (both were crazy good)
> 
> Have your tried the "Irene" scene in "Black Hawk Down" when the boots are first running across the tarmac? Our system was a bust but we're only flat to 11Hz and you look flat well past 10Hz. The point, there's a lot of tactile sensation to be found below 16Hz.


Are you 100% sure that its the sub 16Hz content you are feeling, or just assuming those are the frequencies you feel? Maybe its the 20-30Hz that you are feeling so much. Not sure what method you used to test what frequencies you actually felt the most, so maybe you are right with your setup. However, again, what I did was play the 1-30 Hz stepped tones that played each frequency for 5 seconds or so. I played them at -15 if I remember. Lots of cone movement starting well under ten, nothing heard, nothing felt, then like a light switch the room started shaking and rumbling with the 16 Hz tone. I was sitting in an easy chair right next to the sub, so I was near field. Also this location in my room has a good strong boost to the 10-20 hz region.

Perhaps the output capability of my single sub is just not adequate to "feel" the effects of those lower frequencies. If that is indeed the case I just feel like I would be better served rolling them off. I am strongly inclined to add an XS15 sometime this year, maybe in a few months and I can see if that makes a difference.

I performed an REW sweep and 95-100 dB at the MLP is as much clean output as I am capable of under 20Hz. I know it takes exponentially more excursion and power to produce 10 Hz vs 20 Hz.

I will try the 1-30 Hz again at my MLP to see if I feel anything at the MLP under 16. If not I am either going to eq it down or do a 6dB/octave roll off around 20. If I am listening at spirited levels for a movie I don't want to bottom the sub out for frequencies that are having no effect.


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## BeeMan458

For those who wish, check out "Triax" on YouTube. Blackmambakila has some killler examples of his pair of Triax subwoofers.



Bear123 said:


> Are you 100% sure that its the sub 16Hz content you are feeling, or just assuming those are the frequencies you feel?


...Yup!...:sn: 

Here's some measured examples:

Battle L.A.

War of the Worlds

Flight of the Phoenix

U-571

Sound track specifications are a bit schizoid in that one set is spec'd at 20Hz to 120 Hz but due to locatability, many times little is found >80Hz in the LFE channel. OTOH, one specification for the LFE channel is 0Hz to 20kHz, which makes no sense for a LFE channel.

There's not a whole lot below 20Hz but when measurements are made, much more than realized is to be found in the lower, <20Hz octave. Two points, the deeper a subwoofer can dig with authority, the less harmonic distortion is going come into the equation when playing at louder levels and second, as you commented, it takes a whole lot of subwoofage to get you there.

In the end, it clearly makes a boatload of difference and it's up to the individual's budget to decide how many Benjamins they're willing to part with to get to where they want to go. And if one is in it for the smile factor, that's where one is going have to go. The XS30 that you have is a beautiful start.


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## NBPk402

BeeMan458 said:


> For those who wish, check out "Triax" on YouTube. Blackmambakila has some killler examples of his pair of Triax subwoofers.


There is also a video on the Home Theater Shack Facebook page of his setup.:T


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## BeeMan458

ellisr63 said:


> There is also a video on the Home Theater Shack Facebook page of his setup.:T


Thanks! He's definitely having fun with his subs when not working.

For the benefit of others, can you link to some of the pages as we don't Facebook or Twitter.


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## Bear123

ok just that my point is that, when I am listening to the WotW scene, and everything is shaking, rumbling and vibrating, I personally can not tell by some innate ability that the frequencies causing all the feeling are 13 Hz or 21 Hz, I just don't have that capability. Same with the WWZ grenade scene. My house feels like it is shaking apart on that scene, but again, I do not have any sort of sense that allows me to precisely determine what the exact frequency it is that I am feeling.

So, to test, I played individual frequencies, stepping up one at a time, rather than a scene containing lots of different frequencies all at the same time.


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## BeeMan458

Bear123 said:


> New posts here but I cant see them?


Your above just came through.


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## NBPk402

BeeMan458 said:


> Thanks! He's definitely having fun with his subs when not working.
> 
> For the benefit of others, can you link to some of the pages as we don't Facebook or Twitter.


I just looked on the Facebook site and I don't see it anymore. :huh:


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## BeeMan458

ellisr63 said:


> I just looked on the Facebook site and I don't see it anymore. :huh:


Oh sure. Get me all jacked and without a parachute.......kick me out the door.

...:bigsmile:


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## NBPk402

BeeMan458 said:


> Oh sure. Get me all jacked and without a parachute.......kick me out the door.
> 
> ...:bigsmile:


Strange, because I gave the link to Black, and he loved watching his video again on the HTS facebook site.


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## Bear123

Not sure why I am having trouble viewing recent posts in this thread. Bee, you posted a spectrograph of the WotW pod emergence scene, with content ranging from roughly 8-60 Hz. My point is, how do you know if all the shaking, rumbling, and rolling you are feeling is primarily from the 20-35 Hz stuff, or 16-30, and maybe not much at all due to the 10-15? I personally am unable to identify what exact frequency I am experiencing during a scene.

That's the reason I did the 1-30 Hz test that played one frequency at a time. Sitting right next to the sub, which should be giving me near field increased tactile effect, an area of the room that I have measured to have a strong response down to 10 Hz, I had zero rumble until the 16 Hz tone played, with lots of great shaking up until around 30 Hz or so at the volume I was testing. I will redo at my MLP to see if there is any difference.


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## BeeMan458

Bear123 said:


> Not sure why I am having trouble viewing recent posts in this thread. Bee, you posted a spectrograph of the WotW pod emergence scene, with content ranging from roughly 8-60 Hz. My point is, how do you know if all the shaking, rumbling, and rolling you are feeling is primarily from the 20-35 Hz stuff, or 16-30, and maybe not much at all due to the 10-15? I personally am unable to identify what exact frequency I am experiencing during a scene.


You are experiencing only what your system is capable of reproducing and you're going experience it as a synergistic transient response: it's all happening and assaulting your senses at the same time. As is the case with most subwoofers, the lower frequencies are not reproduced with authority and their existence gets run over (buried) by the stronger produced sound waves.

-10dB down, is approximately one-half the perceived sound output. Double the distance and the sound output is decreased by 3dB to 6dB. One may have a measured room response of +108dB but in the <20Hz, they may be measuring +90dB. Unless the subwoofer is designed to reproduce these lower frequencies at reference levels, the sound quality is going be reduced by distortion and hidden by higher frequency output.

The norm, we can generally hear down to 20Hz. It has been empirically shown, some can hear much lower just as some can hear much higher than the "norm." In the case of directionality, humans have a bit of ability to detect pressure waves, which we can use to determine which direction the pressure wave is coming from but generally, like an ocean wave wraps around an obstructing object, in a room, bass waves wrap and maintain their omni-directionality. In the short, again, what you experience is going be determined by your ability to hear, feel and reproduce bass sound waves.

(i'm not an expert. i'm regurgitating how i've learned this stuff)

Maybe someone with a more technical background will weigh-in on the matter. Maybe Tom of PSA will stop by and say more on the matter. Maybe ellisr63 will have something more to post on your question.


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## Bear123

Well, certainly plan on playing around with things this weekend. I am going to try the 1-30 Hz tone again at my MLP around -15 to see if I get anything noticeable under 16 Hz. Then maybe watch the Washington monument scene, apply a rolloff under 20 HZ, then replay the tone and the scene.


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## Tom V.

Hi all,

Quick heads-up, we have one XS30 in the outlet center. Looks/performs like new.

These tend to go quick so please don't hesitate if you have been waiting.

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/outlet-center

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## needspeed52

Bear123 said:


> Well, certainly plan on playing around with things this weekend. I am going to try the 1-30 Hz tone again at my MLP around -15 to see if I get anything noticeable under 16 Hz. Then maybe watch the Washington monument scene, apply a rolloff under 20 HZ, then replay the tone and the scene.


Hey Bear what are you using to play this 1-30 Hz tone, just curious, thanks.
Cheers Jeff


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## Basshead81

There ya go bear, might as well just jump on that b-stock XS30 and make room for. I dont want to hear no if and but or maybe...just do it!


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## Bear123

Was something I found on youtube...I played it low as I was afraid of hurting something...I will look it up when I get a chance.


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## Bear123

Basshead81 said:


> There ya go bear, might as well just jump on that b-stock XS30 and make room for. I dont want to hear no if and but or maybe...just do it!


That would be pretty sweet..........wont happen soon though I need a few months most likely.


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## bmoney003

I wouldn't go by those test tones on YouTube. 

Have you tries the time generator on REW?

Much more accurate. But be careful. Don't play any tone longer than 6-7 seconds. Don't want to fry the voice coil.


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## willis7469

There are also tones available on HTS. Or google sine wave generator, or subwoofer test tones. I can't remember where I got mine, but you can save em to disk, or phone or whatever works. Much more control, and consistency too. I think you said no rew yet? When you go through the tones, make a note of each freq, and the spl. Then you can make your own sub plot. This can help tune til u get rew goin.


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## Bear123

I have REW, posted a plot a bit earlier....sine wave test tones wont hurt anything at moderate volumes will they? Like -20 or -15?


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## Bear123

oops


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## willis7469

Hey bear, I totally forgot about your plot. Sorry . 
I'd start at -25 or -20. Why did you post oops?


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## Basshead81

willis7469 said:


> There are also tones available on HTS. Or google sine wave generator, or subwoofer test tones. I can't remember where I got mine, but you can save em to disk, or phone or whatever works. Much more control, and consistency too. I think you said no rew yet? When you go through the tones, make a note of each freq, and the spl. Then you can make your own sub plot. This can help tune til u get rew goin.


He has Rew which includes all the tones one needs.


----------



## willis7469

Basshead81 said:


> He has Rew which includes all the tones one needs.


Yeah, I messed that up. He reminded me.


----------



## BeeMan458

Bear123 said:


> I have REW, posted a plot a bit earlier....


It never hurts to repost for those.....like me.....who missed or forgot about the posted graph.

(old men forget a lot)


----------



## Bear123

Here is a repost of my XS30 with the PSW110, with my two french door openings closed. this gets rid of the dip I have at 12 Hz with the doors open. Again, I am going to test some more this weekend, but if I don't get anything out of the under 16 Hz stuff I am going to experiment with rolling it off. What I was hoping for when I upgraded from the PB2000 to the XS30 was a sub about the same size that did not give up any output from 18-30 Hz compared to a ported sub, and I think I got that. To get any more output in this region, in my opinion, would have required the FV15HP, which is larger and several hundred dollars higher. And I get a lot more output over 30 Hz, so I am happy:


----------



## willis7469

You are happy... Then I am too. I think your instincts are spot on. Have fun!


----------



## BeeMan458

Bear123 said:


> Here is a repost of my XS30 with the PSW110, with my two french door openings closed.


Thank-you. If you haven't already, I'd get that sweet looking graph loaded into your photo gallery.


----------



## needspeed52

I have the Bass Mekanic CD, it has sweeps, tones, pink noise etc. is it safe and accurate to use, haven't tried it yet?
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Bear123

BeeMan458 said:


> Thank-you. If you haven't already, I'd get that sweet looking graph loaded into your photo gallery.


Have not done any of that yet...I'll try it. Next on the agenda....surrounds enroute, currently have none. Then, I would like to add either an XS15, another XS30, or perhaps a DIY UXL18 4 cu. ft sealed with a couple thousand watts..............:yikes:


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> I have the Bass Mekanic CD, it has sweeps, tones, pink noise etc. is it safe and accurate to use, haven't tried it yet? Cheers Jeff


My experience with those didn't involve test tones or pink noise so I can't speak to the accuracy. Or usefulness for that matter. I can say however, is that they are a lot if fun. Safety is another thing. I would recommend treading lightly til you know what does what. I've bottomed drivers before, and I don't think they're ever the same. I also like to watch them during tones. It might be in my head, but it makes me feel better seeing what they're doing at different freq/volume. 
Have fun Speed!!!
Will


----------



## Saturn94

willis7469 said:


> You are happy... Then I am too. I think your instincts are spot on. Have fun!


+1


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 wrote:
I have the Bass Mekanic CD, it has sweeps, tones, pink noise etc. is it safe and accurate to use, haven't tried it yet? Cheers Jeff
Btw, which one gave you got?


----------



## Basshead81

willis7469 said:


> My experience with those didn't involve test tones or pink noise so I can't speak to the accuracy. Or usefulness for that matter. I can say however, is that they are a lot if fun. Safety is another thing. I would recommend treading lightly til you know what does what. I've bottomed drivers before, and I don't think they're ever the same. I also like to watch them during tones. It might be in my head, but it makes me feel better seeing what they're doing at different freq/volume.
> Have fun Speed!!!
> Will


Good Advice! From my experience PSA subs will not bottom...soft limiting.


----------



## Basshead81

needspeed52 said:


> I have the Bass Mekanic CD, it has sweeps, tones, pink noise etc. is it safe and accurate to use, haven't tried it yet?
> Cheers Jeff


Which one? I have beat dominator which contains some serious ULF. I started collecting bass cd's back in the early 90's. Techno Bass, Techmaster PEB, Bass 305, Bass Mekanic all are good for woofer work outs.


----------



## willis7469

I kinda thought the compressor would take over, but some of those bass tracks are crrraaaaazzy! Lol. Better safe than sorry.


----------



## BeeMan458

Bear123 said:


> Have not done any of that yet...I'll try it. Next on the agenda....surrounds enroute, currently have none. Then, I would like to add either an XS15, another XS30, or perhaps a DIY UXL18 4 cu. ft sealed with a couple thousand watts..............:yikes:


In a 2500^3 room, two xS30s will give you a lot of rumble and roll.


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> needspeed52 wrote:
> I have the Bass Mekanic CD, it has sweeps, tones, pink noise etc. is it safe and accurate to use, haven't tried it yet? Cheers Jeff
> Btw, which one gave you got?


Hey Will, I have Bass Mekanic Quad Maximus, pretty scary stuff in there with the test tones @ 10Hz. It's really not my thing, I was never into rocking car subs and things of that nature, but I can see how you can break out some car windows. The bass just seems un-natural to me. 
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Tom V.

willis7469 said:


> I kinda thought the compressor would take over, but some of those bass tracks are crrraaaaazzy! Lol. Better safe than sorry.



I cannot speak for other manufacturers but when Jim and I are setting our amplifier DSP coding we don't include the possibility of "test tone abuse" in the process. We focus entirely on music/film material.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## willis7469

Tom V. said:


> I cannot speak for other manufacturers but when Jim and I are setting our amplifier DSP coding we don't include the possibility of "test tone abuse" in the process. We focus entirely on music/film material. Tom V. Power Sound Audio


Hi Tom, I'm not sure how far back you've been looking, but I was suggesting that he use caution if he is going to use those tones, or "bass" cd as it were. Someone else commented that PSA subs wouldn't bottom out. I was agreeing, but had not considered that up til then. And of course, you wouldn't include "test tone abuse" in your dsp coding. But since many manufacturers, including you I believe, use a compressor/limiter of sorts, there is an awareness of the potential, even with regular program material to destroy a driver. Please take my tone as sincere, and respectful. Not defensive. I just wanted to be clear that I was in fact saying proceed with caution. 
Thank you
Will


----------



## Tom V.

willis7469 said:


> Hi Tom, I'm not sure how far back you've been looking, but I was suggesting that he use caution if he is going to use those tones, or "bass" cd as it were. Someone else commented that PSA subs wouldn't bottom out. I was agreeing, but had not considered that up til then. And of course, you wouldn't include "test tone abuse" in your dsp coding. But since many manufacturers, including you I believe, use a compressor/limiter of sorts, there is an awareness of the potential, even with regular program material to destroy a driver. Please take my tone as sincere, and respectful. Not defensive. I just wanted to be clear that I was in fact saying proceed with caution.
> Thank you
> Will



Hi Will, Your "tone" seems fine to me. Very sorry if anything in my previous response indicted otherwise. I should spend a bit of time explaining things more clearly but I often find myself with a couple minutes so my posts may come off as abrupt. 

In this day/age a well engineered system should never "bottom". At least in the sense of the VC banging against the back plate. Some systems may have a bit of VC rocking that can cause noise. More likely(in my experiences) with a well engineered system the issue will be VC over heating. Glue melts. Things deform. And some type of noise vs. excursion is the end result. 

Driver "motor" design seems to be one of the most misunderstood topics(or, at the least, overly simplified) on various forums these days...particularly in regards to "motor weight" or claimed "xmax". There's just so much more to consider in regards to the final system performance. Some drivers perform significantly better than they have a right too(based on specifications). The Eminence Lab15 is an example of this. Based on specs, its pricing ($300) seems quite high. However Jim and I have quite a bit of past experience with the Lab15 as we seriously considered it for the Triax at one time. We've gone through....maybe 6-7(?) custom variations (eminence building to our specifications) of the Lab15. Once we got the overall design closely matched to our specific requirements...it performed *very* well. It is no coincidence that Mark uses a driver related to the Lab15 in his submersive and folks consider it one of the best performing products on the market..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## needspeed52

Hey Guys, I have a question, could you explain why it's not a good idea to go on the + side of 0 dB with the subs trim level in your receiver or pre-pro? I use an SPL meter and use the sub gain to get close to my target level and then use the receiver's trim level to get there, I just want to know why it's not advisable to go over 0 dB. Also while I have your attention, when you run Audyssey and save your settings, is there a one shot procedure to turn it off or do you have to go into the source settings and disable it for all your sources, I have an Onkyo receiver? Thanks 
Jeff


----------



## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> Hey Guys, I have a question, could you explain why it's not a good idea to go on the + side of 0 dB with the subs trim level in your receiver or pre-pro?


A couple of points.

+/-0dBfs is reference level output which means if your subwoofer system is capable, it's capable of +95db playback with +20dB headroom for clean peak playback.

The second, if you're exceeding +115dB playback, more than likely you're exceeding the capability of your subwoofer system, you're stressing the amplifier and introducing amplifier distortion into the sonic stream. None of which are good.

With a Triax subwoofer, complimenting a pair of XS30s, this might not be a consideration.

(my recommendation, sell the two XS30s and buy a second Triax and be done with it)


----------



## needspeed52

BeeMan458 said:


> A couple of points.
> 
> +/-0dBfs is reference level output which means if your subwoofer system is capable, it's capable of +95db playback with +20dB headroom for clean peak playback.
> 
> The second, if you're exceeding +115dB playback, more than likely you're exceeding the capability of your subwoofer system, you're stressing the amplifier and introducing amplifier distortion into the sonic stream. None of which are good.
> 
> With a Triax subwoofer, complimenting a pair of XS30s, this might not be a consideration.
> 
> (my recommendation, sell the two XS30s and buy a second Triax and be done with it)


Thank you, I have a lot to consider at this time and will consider your reco.


----------



## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> Thank you, I have a lot to consider at this time and will consider your reco.


...:sn:


----------



## Tom V.

needspeed52 said:


> Hey Guys, I have a question, could you explain why it's not a good idea to go on the + side of 0 dB with the subs trim level in your receiver or pre-pro? I use an SPL meter and use the sub gain to get close to my target level and then use the receiver's trim level to get there, I just want to know why it's not advisable to go over 0 dB. Also while I have your attention, when you run Audyssey and save your settings, is there a one shot procedure to turn it off or do you have to go into the source settings and disable it for all your sources, I have an Onkyo receiver? Thanks
> Jeff


 If you are referring to the bass level/trim menu in the receiver(which usually ranges from *-12* to *+12*) there are two reasons why it is often recommended to target a setting in the negatives. First, this optimizes the signal/noise ratio in the signal chain and minimizes any chance of "clipping" the input signal to the subwoofer. Second, it gives the end user plenty of room to boost the bass levels without approaching the upper limits of the adjustment range. 


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## willis7469

Tom V. said:


> If you are referring to the bass level/trim menu in the receiver(which usually ranges from *-12* to *+12*) there are two reasons why it is often recommended to target a setting in the negatives. First, this optimizes the signal/noise ratio in the signal chain and minimizes any chance of "clipping" the input signal to the subwoofer. Second, it gives the end user plenty of room to boost the bass levels without approaching the upper limits of the adjustment range. Tom V. Power Sound Audio


Tom! You read my mind! lol. I had a conversation with your old buddy ed Mullen a few years ago, about this very thing. Very well explained, as usual. Thanks for responding in regard to our earlier exchange. I was afraid you may have read me as saying he should just turn it up to 11 and chuck the knob. (I wouldn't lol) I understand being short. Time is a premium these days. I have much respect for you, and appreciate your mingling with us. I look forward to exchanging with you in the future. 
Will
Oh yeah, Speed! Ol buddy! The answer to one button Audyssey off, is no. :-( sorry.


----------



## Tom V.

willis7469 said:


> Tom! You read my mind! lol. I had a conversation with your old buddy ed Mullen a few years ago, about this very thing. Very well explained, as usual. Thanks for responding in regard to our earlier exchange. I was afraid you may have read me as saying he should just turn it up to 11 and chuck the knob. (I wouldn't lol) I understand being short. Time is a premium these days. I have much respect for you, and appreciate your mingling with us. I look forward to exchanging with you in the future.
> Will
> Oh yeah, Speed! Ol buddy! The answer to one button Audyssey off, is no. :-( sorry.


 
Test tones are funny in that with experience someone can (usually!) use just about any tone on any subwoofer...even up to the very limits of that sub....without damage. Believe me, Jim and I have experienced the odor of overheated VCs more than once in the past 20 years..

I remember once, back like 2002(ish) we had a "new kid on the block" begging us to audition their new driver topology. Hey, no problem. We said the same thing back then as we do now....Don't spend too much time sending us pages of subjective gibberish why it is so good....just send two samples. Well, we get one sample. Okay, no worries. Next round of outside tests we take a bunch of baseline checks with the current production sub. I'm telling Jim how this new one is supposed to be the "ducks guts"(to coin a Mad Max phrase). We pop in the new driver, gain at 0, start with a 20hz sine just to loosen it up a little. About 2(?) seconds into this a little "pop" and nothing. I don't think we even got past a couple hundred watts of input. We go over to the DUT and you can smell the odor from the porting....bad. Jim's giving me the "ducks guts huh?" look. We were going to request a 2nd sample----figuring this one was defective. But I spoke with a couple other engineers in the industry who experienced the same and we just sent the OEM a polite "thanks but it isn't for us".

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## needspeed52

Tom V. said:


> If you are referring to the bass level/trim menu in the receiver(which usually ranges from *-12* to *+12*) there are two reasons why it is often recommended to target a setting in the negatives. First, this optimizes the signal/noise ratio in the signal chain and minimizes any chance of "clipping" the input signal to the subwoofer. Second, it gives the end user plenty of room to boost the bass levels without approaching the upper limits of the adjustment range.
> 
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Thank you Tom, that's all I needed to know. Quick question when you get to it, is there any correct way to orient the Triax in a corner. Amp side in the corner two side drivers firing into the side walls and the other firing into the room, sound good? The reason I ask is that I moved my setup to the short wall of a long room 14' W X 27' L X 8' H and what's happening is I think I'm in a null, the sub is in the right front corner and I'm getting higher output readings to the left and right of the MLP, I'm talking about 4' to the right and left of the MLP, for example at the MLP the meter will read 80dB and at the right and left of that spot about four feet away the output is a least 4-5 dB louder 85dB, any suggestions other than getting another Triax or moving my setup back to the long wall like before?
Cheers Jeff


----------



## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> The reason I ask is that I moved my setup to the short wall of a long room 14' W X 27' L X 8' H and what's happening is I think I'm in a null, the sub is in the right front corner and I'm getting higher output readings to the left and right of the MLP, I'm talking about 4' to the right and left of the MLP, for example at the MLP the meter will read 80dB and at the right and left of that spot about four feet away the output is a least 4-5 dB louder 85dB, any suggestions other than getting another Triax or moving my setup back to the long wall like before?


Have you downloaded a freeware copy of REW?

As a suggestion, place one subwoofer behind the MLP and a second one on the opposite wall where the television is.

Don't worry about the null. Murphy's law states that if the subwoofers are placed according to aesthetics, the MLP will always land in the biggest hole.

Place one nearfield to the MLP and one on the opposite wall and measurements will show a good start. Room correction software and tweaking the settings with REW as your guide will help the final adjustments.


----------



## willis7469

Beemsn458 said:
Place one nearfield to the MLP and one on the opposite wall and measurements will show a good start. Room correction software and tweaking the settings with REW as your guide will help the final adjustments. I think he switched out his 30's for a single triax. ...I think.


----------



## BeeMan458

willis7469 said:


> Beemsn458 said:
> Place one nearfield to the MLP and one on the opposite wall and measurements will show a good start. Room correction software and tweaking the settings with REW as your guide will help the final adjustments. I think he switched out his 30's for a single triax. ...I think.


Sorry. The way I read the comment, he had two XS30s and a Triax.

If but a single Triax, I'd place it behind or directly next to the MLP and get a second one in place as soon as possible.


----------



## willis7469

Hi speed! I was wondering, since we talked a little about bass CDs, what you were using for tones. One of the CDs, or rcvr test tones. 
You are surely sitting in a null. Where in the room is your LP? While your room is not square, the long dimension is almost exactly 2X the short dimension. Maybe just as bad. To set your distances, a good place to start is in 1/5, or 1/3 increments. So placement on the long wall would put the sub at 5.4' or 9'. (2.8, or 4.6 short wall) This will be fairly easy since your long/short dimensions are multiples of 2. If you "corner load", I think it will excite all room modes at the same time, then you could move your LP, and setup accordingly. (Who knows about higher freq modes) This can help smooth it out a little. You should have room modes at roughly 40, 80, 120, and 141hz. Experimenting is key too. No two rooms on paper will respond the same. ...don't know why. It just is what it is! 
On the other hand, if you DO have rew, (can't remember, sorry) you can simplify this a lot. 
I gotta run for now.


----------



## willis7469

If your centered on a 14' wall. Every 3.5' will be a mode at 80hz. Exactly where your LP would be @ 7' (3.5x2) would be a null, but at 3.5' would be peaks. If your back was against the 27' wall you'd have boundary gain to alleviate this, but 27' from any display is not gonna work. ...just thinkin.


----------



## NBPk402

BeeMan458 said:


> Thanks! He's definitely having fun with his subs when not working.
> 
> For the benefit of others, can you link to some of the pages as we don't Facebook or Twitter.


Here ya go...


----------



## willis7469

That was awesome. Where's my visa...


----------



## BeeMan458

Blackmambakila has been having some serious fun with his pair of Triax.


----------



## needspeed52

BeeMan458 said:


> Sorry. The way I read the comment, he had two XS30s and a Triax.
> 
> If but a single Triax, I'd place it behind or directly next to the MLP and get a second one in place as soon as possible.


Have a single Triax, considering a second tho


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> If your centered on a 14' wall. Every 3.5' will be a mode at 80hz. Exactly where your LP would be @ 7' (3.5x2) would be a null, but at 3.5' would be peaks. If your back was against the 27' wall you'd have boundary gain to alleviate this, but 27' from any display is not gonna work. ...just thinkin.


I hear you Will, I'm considering blocking off the room making it more like 14' W X 20' L and adding adding a second Triax or maybe selling the Triax and get dual XV30Fs or 3 XV15s, have to think a while here, and since the new speaker line is still in the design phase I'll have time to get everything I need, an all PSA setup with multiple subs :T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> I hear you Will, I'm considering blocking off the room making it more like 14' W X 20' L and adding adding a second Triax or maybe selling the Triax and get dual XV30Fs or 3 XV15s, have to think a while here, and since the new speaker line is still in the design phase I'll have time to get everything I need, an all PSA setup with multiple subs :T Cheers Jeff


Very interesting. Just for the record, I'd have to say if you changed the dimensions to the above, I think a single triax would not only fill the space, but pressurize it effortlessly. That size would be 2240 cuft, then maybe if you need some traps, or EQ, or a popcorn machine, or whatever, you could put your money there. Not that I don't want to help you spend some money on another wicked sub! Btw, if you need to buy another one just to buy one, I accept! Lol Also, what happened to your xv's, and what prompted you to rotate the arrangement?


----------



## BeeMan458

needspeed52 said:


> Have a single Triax, considering a second tho


Do you have it located nearfield. Just saying, having a sub located nearfield is quite the treat. Ours is directly behind the MLP, about three inches from the back of the chair with the driver pointing parallel to the back.

If you check my posted images, you'll see one next to the loveseat. The loveseat was replaced on Thursday with a loveseat fitted with two electric recliners.

...:bigsmile:

You are going absolutely love your subwoofer sound system with the second Triax installed.

IIRC, basshead81 has a three XV15 setup with all three set nearfield to his sectional sofa, one on each end and one in the middle.


----------



## harlington

ellisr63 said:


> Here ya go... Video Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvhsbop1FHI


 that 127dbs recorded by his spl meter came from ALL speakers playing, not just subs.


----------



## BeeMan458

harlington said:


> that 127dbs recorded by his spl meter came from ALL speakers playing, not just subs.


Just saying, those speakers and his Denon AVR4520CI, are not remotely capable of 127dB but two coupled Triaxs, at 20Hz, one corner loaded, with room gain, are. FYI, when PSA comes out with their new speaker line, Blackmambakila will be purchasing a full set.

A single Triax, in a pseudo-anechoic setting, at 20Hz, is capable of >110dB.

Each of these Triax subs are rated at 4000w RMS with peak of 8000w and you're working with three fifteen inch, custom designed, high excursion drivers, made specially for the Triax. The Triax is a very special subwoofer. Maybe Tom can weight in on this matter.

...

Disclosure: I don't have a Triax but did closely follow it's development and initial distribution.

Triax description.

CEA-2010 Ratings

*Ultra-low bass (20-31.5 Hz): 125.8dB

Low bass (40-63Hz): 136.9dB

*Subtract 9dB for an equivalent RMS 2m ground plane measurement distance.*

The point, a pair of Triax subwoofers, have that kind of output. Why? Because they're certified home theater monsters.

...


----------



## harlington

^^ His speakers are contributing to the sound level. The only way to find out if his dual Triaxes were playing at that level is to unplug all speakers and just play the same song thru the subs.


----------



## BeeMan458

harlington said:


> ^^ His speakers are contributing to the sound level. The only way to find out if his dual Triaxes were playing at that level is to unplug all speakers and just at the same song thru the subs.


I edited my comments to include additional information and if you looked at the television screen, you'd see that he was running 20Hz signals through his system which is far lower than his 5.0 speakers will support.

The Triax subwoofer are without question, the best price performance subwoofers that one can buy ID. The next being the JTR Captivator S2s but they're more expensive.


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Very interesting. Just for the record, I'd have to say if you changed the dimensions to the above, I think a single triax would not only fill the space, but pressurize it effortlessly. That size would be 2240 cuft, then maybe if you need some traps, or EQ, or a popcorn machine, or whatever, you could put your money there. Not that I don't want to help you spend some money on another wicked sub! Btw, if you need to buy another one just to buy one, I accept! Lol Also, what happened to your xv's, and what prompted you to rotate the arrangement?


I never thought of that :scratch: Thank you. I don't know why I got rid of the XS30s and XV15s, I'm thinking of placing the Triax nearfield as Bee suggests and see what happens. Also contemplating four XV15s:T seriously.


----------



## Tom V.

harlington said:


> ^^ His speakers are contributing to the sound level. The only way to find out if his dual Triaxes were playing at that level is to unplug all speakers and just play the same song thru the subs.


 Not that we should take peak output levels from a SPL meter as anything but what it is...but the main speakers wouldn't possibly be able to contribute in any meaningful manner in this context. His meter has the old RS mic element so its going to read 2-5dB low depending on the frequency of the input signal. This means 127 indicated equals 130+ peaks. 

Even if his speakers were hitting peaks of 105dB( extremely loud) their contributions to the SPL peaks would be negligible. (less than a single decibel) 


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Basshead81

Tom V. said:


> Not that we should take peak output levels from a SPL meter as anything but what it is...but the main speakers wouldn't possibly be able to contribute in any meaningful manner in this context. His meter has the old RS mic element so its going to read 2-5dB low depending on the frequency of the input signal. This means 127 indicated equals 130+ peaks.
> 
> Even if his speakers were hitting peaks of 105dB( extremely loud) their contributions to the SPL peaks would be negligible. (less than a single decibel)
> 
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


This is exactly what I have found from my experience and I have the same spl meter as BMK.


----------



## pddufrene

Hey Bass, what type of wirless setup you have for your XV15's?


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> I never thought of that :scratch: Thank you. I don't know why I got rid of the XS30s and XV15s, I'm thinking of placing the Triax nearfield as Bee suggests and see what happens. Also contemplating four XV15s:T seriously.


Hey speed. Interesting you mentioned 4, XV15s. Incidentally, that's more money, and still 2000 watts RMS less! For me, I think the triax is the way to go. (Tom?) Especially if you can do 2. That'd be 4 times the power. 4 times! Just sayin...
As far as near field goes, if you only have one sub, I think you'll find it harder to integrate with your mains. This was one of my issues til I built my second sub. Like Bee said one near, and one far would be a better staring point. However if you close the space I'm pretty sure that single triax will be enough to knock you off the couch. Is your space dedicated to movies, or do you do music in there also? (This is important in my install. Here is a pic of my "near field" arrangement. They're still 9.5' from the LP, and 21' away from my mains. This is the place they work with my room so far. Trying to balance room interaction, tactile response and blending in. (Not to mention WAF) (Still experimenting though, and planning an 18" sono pair to augment. Or work In 1-2 triax!) Interested in your next steps!
Will


----------



## Tom V.

Basshead81 said:


> This is exactly what I have found from my experience and I have the same spl meter as BMK.


 Lots of cool information on this website, here is one dB calculator.

http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-spl.htm

If you want to check 130dB from the dual subs and 105dB from each front speaker just input 130 and 111dB(let's assume both front combine for a full 6dB gain). I think it increases something like 0.06 (not even one tenth of a dB). 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

I found that if I didn't like the output of the two subs that we purchased, we would be best served purchasing subwoofers capable of much more output such as a pair of Triax rather than wasting our money on a third subwoofer.

A third subwoofer is for room smoothing, not increasing output levels. Fortunately, with Basshead81's guidance, we purchased a pair of subwoofers we could afford and get both depth of extension and satisfactory output which gives us plenty of rumble and roll.

I do have to admit, a pair of Triax subs in Cordovan Cherry would have been sweet but just a bit out of our budgetary constraints. Okay, a whole lot more than our budget would allow. 

At fully on reference level play, we easily meet the +115dB peak/headroom requirement so we're not being shorted in any way, shape, manner or form and with one sub placed nearfield, we're getting all that sweet tactile sensation.........rumble and roll.


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Hey speed. Interesting you mentioned 4, XV15s. Incidentally, that's more money, and still 2000 watts RMS less! For me, I think the triax is the way to go. (Tom?) Especially if you can do 2. That'd be 4 times the power. 4 times! Just sayin...
> As far as near field goes, if you only have one sub, I think you'll find it harder to integrate with your mains. This was one of my issues til I built my second sub. Like Bee said one near, and one far would be a better staring point. However if you close the space I'm pretty sure that single triax will be enough to knock you off the couch. Is your space dedicated to movies, or do you do music in there also? (This is important in my install. Here is a pic of my "near field" arrangement. They're still 9.5' from the LP, and 21' away from my mains. This is the place they work with my room so far. Trying to balance room interaction, tactile response and blending in. (Not to mention WAF) (Still experimenting though, and planning an 18" sono pair to augment. Or work In 1-2 triax!) Interested in your next steps!
> Will


I have tried the near field with the single and you're right, it's not the way to go. I've made the decision to to close off the room, I have an opening on the long left wall of about 8' which leads to a hallway and stairs to the upstairs, at the top of the stairs to the right is my wife's candle shop. I finally realized what was happening last night when I was watching Olympus Has Fallen, the Triax is trying to pressurize the entire house, I was being tossed around on my chair and the wife came down and told me that all of her candle jars were vibrating a floor above and she could feel everything and I was @ -10dB. If I close that opening off and put a wall up at 20' from the front wall the Triax will pressurize that room like nothing I've seen before. It just dawned on me last night what was happening, even at the back of the room thirty feet away I was hearing and feeling the LFE, it was amazing. Already called my buddy and got my best friend's (wife) approval to start the construction. I want to thank you for steering me in the right direction, I didn't realize what I already have. Now I can buy the new speakers as well, at least five identical PSA's. Thanks again my friend. 
Cheers Jeff :sn:


----------



## Basshead81

Edit...after rereading your post will I believe we are agreeing on the same thing. Cheers!


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> I have tried the near field with the single and you're right, it's not the way to go. I've made the decision to to close off the room, I have an opening on the long left wall of about 8' which leads to a hallway and stairs to the upstairs, at the top of the stairs to the right is my wife's candle shop. I finally realized what was happening last night when I was watching Olympus Has Fallen, the Triax is trying to pressurize the entire house, I was being tossed around on my chair and the wife came down and told me that all of her candle jars were vibrating a floor above and she could feel everything and I was @ -10dB. If I close that opening off and put a wall up at 20' from the front wall the Triax will pressurize that room like nothing I've seen before. It just dawned on me last night what was happening, even at the back of the room thirty feet away I was hearing and feeling the LFE, it was amazing. Already called my buddy and got my best friend's (wife) approval to start the construction. I want to thank you for steering me in the right direction, I didn't realize what I already have. Now I can buy the new speakers as well, at least five identical PSA's. Thanks again my friend. Cheers Jeff :sn:


Jeff, your very lucky to have the latitude afforded by your "best friend"! I love the story you told about the house etc. I was laughing. As far as sharing advice, it's always a pleasure to help in any situation. Especially one such as this. It's always been my philosophy to present what I can think of to be relevant and let whomever make the critical decision, as only that person can. Btw, did you mean 5 PSBs? Lol
I think it's gonna work out great. Drop questions as you need. I'll do my best to help, along side the many more qualified here. Pics?
Will


----------



## willis7469

Basshead81 said:


> Edit...after rereading your post will I believe we are agreeing on the same thing. Cheers!


Hola! I wasn't able to see your first lost except something in the heading about wattage, and the whole story. (?). (This is true for sure). 
Anyway, if you say were on the same road, Ok!
Cheers!


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Jeff, your very lucky to have the latitude afforded by your "best friend"! I love the story you told about the house etc. I was laughing. As far as sharing advice, it's always a pleasure to help in any situation. Especially one such as this. It's always been my philosophy to present what I can think of to be relevant and let whomever make the critical decision, as only that person can. Btw, did you mean 5 PSBs? Lol
> I think it's gonna work out great. Drop questions as you need. I'll do my best to help, along side the many more qualified here. Pics?
> Will


I truly am Blessed in so many ways my friend, when it comes to this hobby I have the latitude afforded by the misses. I never answered your other question about music, I am very into Old School analog, I bought my Sota Sapphire 111 new in 1986 and it continues to amaze me. Speaking of latitude, the wife gets some of her candle making supplies from Ohio and we're planning a little trip there, candle supplies, just so happens that it is only another 1/2 hour drive to Mineral Ridge which happens to be where PSA is located. Will be contacting Tom and Jim and see if they would mind a visit and maybe get on that imaginary new speaker list and see what else is brewing. Thanks again Will. Putting the material list together to start the new room project :T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## willis7469

Hey speed! This sounds like a great road trip. If it works out, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about the experience. How's the build (plan) coming?


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Hey speed! This sounds like a great road trip. If it works out, I'm sure we'd all like to hear about the experience. How's the build (plan) coming?


Will keep you up to date my friend, things will be delayed a bit tho, I'm having total hip replacement surgery in the AM lddude:


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Power Sound Audio just put up our first survey. Please participate when time allows---it should only take a couple minutes. We will pick one winner daily to get a free travel mug. (US and Canada addresses only please). Also, please limit yourself to one entry, thanks.

http://powerup99.polldaddy.com/s/survey1

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## willis7469

Thanks Tom!


----------



## bmoney003

Done


----------



## Audiohallick

There needs to be a option to mark N/A on a few questions on the survey.


----------



## pddufrene

Done deal, it's actually a very short survey. They should all be like that, straight to the point.


----------



## Basshead81

Done!


----------



## Tom V.

Audiohallick said:


> There needs to be a option to mark N/A on a few questions on the survey.



Thanks for the feedback. Jim and I are "learning as we go" here so feedback like this is very welcome! If anyone else has any suggestions please don't hesitate to let us know. 

Unfortunately I cannot update this survey but I will keep this in mind for the next.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

Tom V. said:


> If anyone else has any suggestions please don't hesitate to let us know.


Allow the survey to include those, who didn't purchase PSA subwoofers? I couldn't afford a pair of Triax subwoofers so we had to go with what I considered to be the next best thing as you know how much respect I have for you guys and all of your PSA product line. Even though not an owner, I filled out the survey and added my penny and a half worth into the comment box.

(and i wish we had the money and room for four XS30s)

...:T


----------



## Tom V.

BeeMan458 said:


> Allow the survey to include those, who didn't purchase PSA subwoofers? I couldn't afford a pair of Triax subwoofers so we had to go with what I considered to be the next best thing as you know how much respect I have for you guys and all of your PSA product line. Even though not an owner, I filled out the survey and added my penny and a half worth into the comment box.
> 
> (and i wish we had the money and room for four XS30s)
> 
> ...:T


 If I somehow implied this should be for Power Sound Audio owners only I misspoke (typed). Apologies there.

Everyone is welcome.

Also, Hi all, 

I just sent emails to 3 winners for the travel mug. We picked three today instead of one because the amount of entries was significantly larger than we anticipated. 

Thanks again to all who have participated!

Tom V. 
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

Tom V. said:


> If I somehow implied this should be for Power Sound Audio owners only I misspoke (typed). Apologies there.
> 
> Everyone is welcome.


You never did. It was how it was worded.....the survey is gone.

Something about planning to buy PSA products.

I went ahead and filled the survey out cause if I could, I would.


----------



## mdanderson

Thanks for the survey. That was a great idea.


----------



## kfish

Just finished filling out the survey, & I struggled for almost 5 minutes to come up with a reason worthy of changing my buying experience. 

I have a couple questions regarding interest in possible future products... the cylindrical subs in particular. 

1) If these materialized, would they house 15" drivers?

2) If "yes" to #1, could we possibly expect a reduced price point compared to the XS15 & XV15 due to cheaper/lighter materials (assumption) & cheaper shipping costs? 

If you're not able to talk about this on a forum I understand, just VERY curious.


----------



## Tom V.

kfish said:


> Just finished filling out the survey, & I struggled for almost 5 minutes to come up with a reason worthy of changing my buying experience.
> 
> I have a couple questions regarding interest in possible future products... the cylindrical subs in particular.
> 
> 1) If these materialized, would they house 15" drivers?
> 
> 2) If "yes" to #1, could we possibly expect a reduced price point compared to the XS15 & XV15 due to cheaper/lighter materials (assumption) & cheaper shipping costs?
> 
> If you're not able to talk about this on a forum I understand, just VERY curious.


 We've gone through a few proto types here. I don't want to get too specific as we prefer to keep our various R/D tribulations "close to the vest" when possible but most of the prototypes do have 15s. Final costing would be tough to comment on at this point. I don't see it being higher, but it may not be much lower either. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

We gave two mugs out today as participation is still more than anticipated although not nearly as high as yesterday. I just sent the emails. Thanks again.

Tom Vodhanel


----------



## kfish

Tom V. said:


> We've gone through a few proto types here. I don't want to get too specific as we prefer to keep our various R/D tribulations "close to the vest" when possible but most of the prototypes do have 15s. Final costing would be tough to comment on at this point. I don't see it being higher, but it may not be much lower either.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio



Fair enough Tom. :T But I am optimistic from what you said in this ^^^ post.


----------



## Crazykat

Survey completed, Thanks Tom

Arnie,
Proud PSA XS30 owner.:wave:


----------



## climber07

I'm really excited now. Last Thursday I ordered two XV15s and they are scheduled for delivery this Thursday. It's funny how long a week lasts when you are waiting for gear to come in. 

I will be replacing two JBL ES250 12" subwoofers. I've heard nothing but good reviews of the XV15s and after speaking to Tom on the phone, I was sold. I should have Audyssey ran and both subs calibrated within an hour of their arrival. I expect to be listening to music and watching movies within two... 

Hurry up Thursday. :crying:


----------



## Crazykat

climber07 said:


> I'm really excited now. Last Thursday I ordered two XV15s and they are scheduled for delivery this Thursday. It's funny how long a week lasts when you are waiting for gear to come in.
> 
> I will be replacing two JBL ES250 12" subwoofers. I've heard nothing but good reviews of the XV15s and after speaking to Tom on the phone, I was sold. I should have Audyssey ran and both subs calibrated within an hour of their arrival. I expect to be listening to music and watching movies within two...
> 
> Hurry up Thursday. :crying:


Nice, Congratulations.


----------



## climber07

Crazykat said:


> Nice, Congratulations.



Thanks man. It looks like I just beat the price increases too.


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all, 

FYI, we announced the new pricing structure for the Power-X product lineup yesterday. 

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs...pricing-update


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

Page not found.

...


----------



## Audiohallick

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs/news/13645621-power-x-pricing-update


----------



## BeeMan458

Fixed.

Thanks!

...


----------



## Tom V.

No idea what I did wrong on the link, thanks for the fix.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

Just to be clear, I didn't fix anything. Maybe Audiohallick made corrections.

Using the quote feature to check each post:

Tom V. posted: http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs...pricing-update

Audiohallick poste: http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs/news/13645621-power-x-pricing-update

Use the quote feature to see the differences as the forum software truncates the links to look the same.


----------



## climber07

Got 'em today and they sound great. They arrived in perfect condition.


----------



## Mike0206

Congrats! That's awesome!


----------



## pddufrene

Congrats!! Hope you enjoy yours like I do mine B-)


----------



## bmoney003

Beautiful!! Enjoy. 
Be sure to report back after calibrating and putting them trough the paces


----------



## Bear123

Wow those are huge images.


----------



## Tom V.

Thanks to all for participating in the Survey(now closed). We've shipped out quite a few mugs to quite a few locations(even one all the way to Australia!). 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## needspeed52

Tom V. said:


> Thanks to all for participating in the Survey(now closed). We've shipped out quite a few mugs to quite a few locations(even one all the way to Australia!).
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Thank you Tom, I love my mugs, how about a nice T-shirt since I'm your PR man. :T
Your Friend, Jeffrey


----------



## Tom V.

needspeed52 said:


> Thank you Tom, I love my mugs, how about a nice T-shirt since I'm your PR man. :T
> Your Friend, Jeffrey



Those will be coming eventually, we just have a few other things with higher priority at the moment..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Quick reminder,

Pricing changes in 3 days(We'll update the site Wednesday evening. If you will be ordering soon regardless, try to get in on the old pricing if possible. Once we change over, no more old pricing...even one day later..

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/blogs/news/13645621-power-x-pricing-update

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

A bit of a website update, also please check the news section. Thanks.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

News section.

...


----------



## Basshead81

Brian Fineberg, my apologies for offending you. I thought we discussed that topic in the past and it was clear.


----------



## bmoney003

Yes because you said it about 5 times so therefore it was no longer a joke. Especially after I asked you to stop and you continued on (hence why you were reported) You come off condescending many times. And I didn't appreciate it. Thanks

Also we all know in most joking there is serious thoughts. And that's how I took it


----------



## Bear123

hey bass...if you did not intend to, you definitely came across the wrong way.


----------



## Basshead81

Edit.....


----------



## Basshead81

Bear123 said:


> hey bass...if you did not intend to, you definitely came across the wrong way.


Edit* I did not mean to offend. We discussed that topic in the past before you were a member there. I was simply joking around because of that fact.


----------



## bmoney003

Actually I flat out asked you to stop. And you kept at it. 

Obviously you have an issue with relating to people since this is your second time being banned. 

I could care less that you were "right" in fact that is why I was asking the question to get clarification. You repeated the insults multiple times. And emoticons do nothing for me. 

If I call you an ahole then smile at you. I still called you an ahole

The mods did what they did. I have no control if you get banned. Obviously you have had issues before. So obviously you don't know how to learn from mistakes


----------



## Basshead81

Edit...does not matter moving on.


----------



## Basshead81

Ordered my 3 SE upgrade kits.


----------



## BeeMan458

Basshead81 said:


> Ordered my 3 SE upgrade kits.


What do you get in an SE upgrade kit?


----------



## Basshead81

BeeMan458 said:


> What do you get in an SE kit?



Lab 15 driver(variant) similar to what is used in the Seaton Submersive and a reprogrammed amplifier that puts out another 50watts rms and recalibrated dsp. Compression is greatly reduced and Tom said the XV15se put down around 108-109db 2m rms @ 20hz. 

20-31hz -> 112.1db 2m rms

40-63hz -> 117.9db 2m rms


----------



## BeeMan458

Basshead81 said:


> Lab 15 driver(variant) similar to what is used in the Seaton Submersive and a reprogrammed amplifier that puts out another 50watts rms and recalibrated dsp. Compression is greatly reduced and Tom said the XV15se put down around 108-109db 2m rms @ 20hz.
> 
> 20-31hz -> 112.1db 2m rms
> 
> 40-63hz -> 117.9db 2m rms


Three upgrade kits with reprogrammed amplifier and Seaton style drivers.....sweet!

Definitely going enjoy reading what your first impressions are over your old system.

(and I'm still loving our pair of subwoofers)

(I set everything up with a listening volume of -17.5MVC and for a house curve, jack up both sub channels +10dB and the CC +7dB)


----------



## Basshead81

Nice you have some beastly subs!! I will update when I recieve the kits.


----------



## climber07

Ordered my two XV15se upgrade kits. :hsd:

Each comes with an updated (upgraded) Eminence Lab15 driver and a reprogrammed amplifier (550W) specifically for the new driver. (This kit is only for customers who purchased a PSA sub between April 1st and April 30th)

I can't wait to get the new drivers and amps installed. They are tested to have a significant increase in output. The only problem is that the kits will not be shipped until June 1st... :crying:


----------



## Basshead81

climber07 said:


> Ordered my two XV15se upgrade kits. :hsd:
> 
> Each comes with an updated (upgraded) Eminence Lab15 driver and a reprogrammed amplifier (550W) specifically for the new driver. (This kit is only for customers who purchased a PSA sub between April 1st and April 30th)
> 
> I can't wait to get the new drivers and amps installed. They are tested to have a significant increase in output. The only problem is that the kits will not be shipped until June 1st... :crying:


I am confused by your post about the kit only being for customers that ordered subs between Apr 1- Apr 30? I ordered SE kits for my 1yr old XV15's.

Btw Congrats!! :sn:


----------



## Bear123

I think what is equally impressive about the amp upgrade is not only that the RMS output got bumped to 550, but that peak went up to 1650 from 1000! I would think that should help(along with the new driver) in hitting those big peaks.


----------



## climber07

Basshead81 said:


> I am confused by your post about the kit only being for customers that ordered subs between Apr 1- Apr 30? I ordered SE kits for my 1yr old XV15's.
> 
> Btw Congrats!! :sn:



The kit comes with one driver and an amp for $400. You return the old driver and amp for a core credit ($300) making the upgrade total $100. 

If you purchased your subs prior to April 1st, then you order a shipping box from PSA, send back your amplifier for programming, and they send you the reprogrammed amp and a new driver. You get to keep the old driver. The second option costs $275.


----------



## Basshead81

climber07 said:


> The kit comes with one driver and an amp for $400. You return the old driver and amp for a core credit ($300) making the upgrade total $100.
> 
> If you purchased your subs prior to April 1st, then you order a shipping box from PSA, send back your amplifier for programming, and they send you the reprogrammed amp and a new driver. You get to keep the old driver. The second option costs $275.


Yep that is how I understood it except we still have to return the old driver.


----------



## climber07

Basshead81 said:


> Yep that is how I understood it except we still have to return the old driver.


Do you get a core credit for the old driver? If not, the driver is yours. Otherwise, the cost would be a lot higher up front. I remember tom saying something about keeping the driver if you are outside of the 30 day return window.


----------



## Bear123

Basshead81 said:


> Ordered my 3 SE upgrade kits.


Cheers:T


----------



## Saturn94

climber07 said:


> Do you get a core credit for the old driver? If not, the driver is yours. Otherwise, the cost would be a lot higher up front. I remember tom saying something about keeping the driver if you are outside of the 30 day return window.


Tom posted this on AVS;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg 

Tom please don't take this the wrong way...

If there is no credit for the returned old drivers. Why would we return them at all?!

Because that will be part of the upgrade package agreement. If you choose *not* to fulfill your end of the agreement I'm not going to send robocop after you or anything. But I would expect our customers to treat us as well as we treat them.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Bear123

I think bass is right...they expect the old driver back in the LAB15 box, shipping label included. They just did not want to charge an expensive core as they felt it would make the initial cost too high for customers until they were able to get the old one returned. Just think if you are upgrading an XS30.....$500 plus two $300 core charges would be $1100 up front cost.


----------



## Bear123

Is it just me, or is Audioholics dead in the water on sub reviews?


----------



## climber07

Bear123 said:


> I think bass is right...they expect the old driver back in the LAB15 box, shipping label included. They just did not want to charge an expensive core as they felt it would make the initial cost too high for customers until they were able to get the old one returned. Just think if you are upgrading an XS30.....$500 plus two $300 core charges would be $1100 up front cost.


Yeah, I see that on the instructions page. They are relying on the honesty of the purchaser on this one. Without charging a core, there is no legal requirement for a customer to send the core back. I hope this doesn't bite them in the rear.


----------



## Basshead81

I know I will return mine...Tom has treated me right so I see no reason not to return the favor.


----------



## climber07

Basshead81 said:


> I know I will return mine...Tom has treated me right so I see no reason not to return the favor.


I know you will. We all want PSA to succeed.


----------



## gorb

Bear123 said:


> Is it just me, or is Audioholics dead in the water on sub reviews?


Remember that Ricci is now their primary sub reviewer so of course new reviews are dependent on his weather and schedule. They just posted a joint review of the JL Audio E110 and E112 a couple hours ago.


Anyway, in regards to the new PSA upgrades, the price is more than fair. If people hold on to their old drivers and don't send them back, that would be a very mean and dishonest thing to do.


----------



## bmoney003

Basshead81 said:


> I know I will return mine...Tom has treated me right so I see no reason not to return the favor.


Exactly

If anyone was to burn Tom et al. All he does for his customers would be for not. But again. Some people just don't give a hoot. And only think about themselves. So it's possible. 

I for one won't be doing the upgrade but if I did. I would most certainly follow the agreement!!


----------



## Basshead81

Recieved tracking confirmation...never been more excited to recieve card board boxes lol.


----------



## BeeMan458

Basshead81 said:


> Recieved tracking confirmation...never been more excited to recieve card board boxes lol.


...:yikes:

More than the original cardboard boxes? Can't wait to see your before and after graphs.

How much Xmax do the new drivers have?

...:T


----------



## Basshead81

BeeMan458 said:


> ...:yikes:
> 
> More than the original cardboard boxes? Can't wait to see your before and after graphs.
> 
> How much Xmax do the new drivers have?
> 
> ...:T


Yea I send my amps back to PSA for a recalibration, then they return the amps with the new drivers. PSA also Provides the shipping label and boxes.

Eminence conservatively rates the Lab 15 xmax @ 12mm. But from the research I have seen it is quite a bit more. 

Here is a link to the Lab 15. Keep in mind the specs for the PSA version are different, but this will give you a general idea.
http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-lab-15-15-pro-audio-subwoofer-speaker--290-575


----------



## BeeMan458

Not trying to be negative. I would have expected a Xmax of 25mm. 

(still looking forward to your first impression review)

Maybe Tom will weigh in on this point and share this piece of information.


----------



## vardo

Basshead,

Like yourself I have 3 XV-15's.....and just ordered the "SE" upgrade kits.
Can't wait for those empty boxes eather! I love my XV-15's, but think
the upgrade kit(s) are well worth the money.

vardo


----------



## Basshead81

BeeMan458 said:


> Not trying to be negative. I would have expected a Xmax of 25mm.
> 
> (still looking forward to your first impression review)
> 
> Maybe Tom will weigh in on this point and share this piece of information.


I believe they are closer to that number then advertised.


----------



## BeeMan458

Basshead81 said:


> I believe they are closer to that number then advertised.


I know from past conversations, the ID companies go out of their way to customize their speakers and of course, knowing the history of the Triax, Tom goes out of his way to make sure the drivers he sells are performance driven drivers and not the kind of driver the general public buys at retail.


----------



## Basshead81

BeeMan458 said:


> I know from past conversations, the ID companies go out of their way to customize their speakers and of course, knowing the history of the Triax, Tom goes out of his way to make sure the drivers he sells are performance driven drivers and not the kind of driver the general public buys at retail.


Yep...same thing Mark Seaton did with the Lab 15 variant used in the SubM. However even the off the shelf Lab 15 has quite a bit more then the advertised 12mm xmax. For some reason Eminence rates xmax very conservative. I do know it gained the XV15 a solid 5db @ 20hz. From what Jims tests show it looks to be within 1db of the FV15HP in 2port from 20hz on up.

XV15se 2m rms

20-31hz -> 112.1db

40-63hz -> 117.9db

FV15HP 2 port

20-31hz -> 112.7db

40-63hz -> 119db

1 port

20-31hz -> 111.9db

40-63hz -> 117.9db

Of course you still get direct servo, variable tuning, deeper extension, peq, and q control with the FV15HP, but the XV15se looks to be another solid performer vs price subwoofer.


----------



## BeeMan458

Basshead81 said:


> Of course you still get direct servo, variable tuning, deeper extension, peq, and q control with the FV15HP,


Yes. You're right. The above is quite the burden to bear.

......:whistling:


----------



## Basshead81

BeeMan458 said:


> Yes. You're right. The above is quite the burden to bear.
> 
> ......:whistling:


I am suprised how much the new driver bumped up the 20-31hz. It was no slouch before, but If you recall the XV15 was down 5-6db @ 20hz compared to the FV15HP. I believe now we are looking at the 2 best subs at their price points. Looking forward to the data-bass results on the XV15se & XS15se.


----------



## BeeMan458

Tom has done a marvelous job of making this all happen as for the X-series, the "se" addition reads like a huge performance boost.


----------



## Tom V.

BeeMan458 said:


> Tom has done a marvelous job of making this all happen as for the X-series, the "se" addition reads like a huge performance boost.


 Jim had more to do with the R/D side of this upgrade than I did.

For the most part I would say 2dB(headroom) averaged across the entire operating FR with the bandwidth extremes seeing the bigger gains. No one should expect some sort of "day night" difference to be sure. In fact if you're not regularly bumping into your headroom limits now...save your money.. Of course some *need* to have the latest and greatest and I can empathize. That is why we are offering as many upgrade options as feasible. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

Tom V. said:


> Of course some *need* to have the latest and greatest and I can empathize


Isn't that half the fun of this hobby, owning the latest and greatest....that you can afford to own?


----------



## Tom V.

Basshead81 said:


> I am suprised how much the new driver bumped up the 20-31hz. It was no slouch before, but If you recall the XV15 was down 5-6db @ 20hz compared to the FV15HP. I believe now we are looking at the 2 best subs at their price points. Looking forward to the data-bass results on the XV15se & XS15se.


 Part of the CEA-2010 differences are due to different measurement methods between the original XV15 and the XV15se. 

I'm pretty sure of what Josh will measure..

From 16-18hz(ish) to 100hz (with the 15hp in max output mode) the big rythmi will still have the advantage....I'd say about 2dB on average. As mentioned, both are really good performers.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

BeeMan458 said:


> Isn't that half the fun of this hobby, owning the latest and greatest....that you can afford to own?


 For many, yes..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Basshead81

Tom V. said:


> For many, yes..
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Indeed! I really am satisfied with my original XV's, but I must upgrade for the sake of knowing. Honestly if I do not notice a big difference I will not be disappointed, that will just confirm how good the original drivers were aside from what a few naysayers have said. 

I figure to upgrade all 3 is cheaper and easier then selling and buying different subwoofers. Also I like my down firing end tables, there is not much out there with this config. Other then the Rythmik D15se.


----------



## Bear123

Basshead are you concerned at all about losing any extension? I think as long as the 16 Hz output does not drop it won't be an issue, imo.


----------



## Basshead81

Bear123 said:


> Basshead are you concerned at all about losing any extension? I think as long as the 16 Hz output does not drop it won't be an issue, imo.


No because if you look at the compression charts I posted, @ 16hz between the XV15 and SE, the SE still has 2-3db more output 
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372020/official-power-sound-audio-thread/10980#post_24690160


----------



## Bear123

Good to know...i wants my 16 Hz


----------



## Basshead81

Bear123 said:


> Good to know...i wants my 16 Hz


I am sure you will get plenty of that...look at the in-room extension chart.


----------



## Bear123

I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas..........


----------



## Basshead81

Bear123 said:


> I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas..........


Me too! I need to take some pics inside the enclosures...talk about bracing! Built better then my house lol.


----------



## Bear123

Well, the dual XV15se's are here. I made some stupid, yet extremely frustrating and time consuming errors with my miniDSP while trying to measure and eq the subs. The result was that I just cleared everything and listened to some music for a while with no eq on place. I have a bad amp on one sub, will be thursday before I get them both up and running and dialed in. Cranked up the single sub a bit though, and I can say its output is plenty stout. Definitely has way more output than the PB2000 did. I doubt it can exceed the XS30 on music but I don't think I pushed its limits...it pressurized the room and shook everything like the XS30 did at spirited levels (-5 to 0). I would have to say that the output of one would likely be more than sufficient, so the duals should rock and of course get things much smoother.


----------



## Tom V.

Bear123 said:


> Well, the dual XV15se's are here. I made some stupid, yet extremely frustrating and time consuming errors with my miniDSP while trying to measure and eq the subs. The result was that I just cleared everything and listened to some music for a while with no eq on place. I have a bad amp on one sub, will be thursday before I get them both up and running and dialed in. Cranked up the single sub a bit though, and I can say its output is plenty stout. Definitely has way more output than the PB2000 did. I doubt it can exceed the XS30 on music but I don't think I pushed its limits...it pressurized the room and shook everything like the XS30 did at spirited levels (-5 to 0). I would have to say that the output of one would likely be more than sufficient, so the duals should rock and of course get things much smoother.



Yeah, sorry about that amp Bear. We'll have a new one on the way first thing Monday but I know you were really looking forward to hearing what "duals" had to offer so this has to be a disappointment. 

The XV15se really does pack a wallop. What we need now is a GTG where they compare <$1000 subs instead of the super subs at $3000 and up all the time..

Any volunteers?

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Bear123

No problem Tom, I hate to even report a problem...for all I know it could have been something I did. All I know though, is that with absolutely no questions asked, other than advice on how to double check if I could easily fix the problem myself, a replacement is being sent. Great service, and I will hobble along just fine with one sub until then. (It easily has more output than I will probably ever need).

Took me a while to figure out my perfect setup, but pretty sure this is it. In fact, I think dual XS15se's would likely have been more than adequate. They seem to eclipse a single XS30(original version) by a decent margin. But I figure if I want to add a strong housecurve the XV's will give me more headroom than I will ever need down low.


----------



## Basshead81

Bear123 said:


> Well, the dual XV15se's are here. I made some stupid, yet extremely frustrating and time consuming errors with my miniDSP while trying to measure and eq the subs. The result was that I just cleared everything and listened to some music for a while with no eq on place. I have a bad amp on one sub, will be thursday before I get them both up and running and dialed in. Cranked up the single sub a bit though, and I can say its output is plenty stout. Definitely has way more output than the PB2000 did. I doubt it can exceed the XS30 on music but I don't think I pushed its limits...it pressurized the room and shook everything like the XS30 did at spirited levels (-5 to 0). I would have to say that the output of one would likely be more than sufficient, so the duals should rock and of course get things much smoother.


Sounds like XV15se is holding its own well!! Do not say it has way more output then the PB2000 over @ AVS or the forum Nazi's will be on you like a fly on poop. :neener:


----------



## Tom V.

Bear123 said:


> No problem Tom, I hate to even report a problem...for all I know it could have been something I did. All I know though, is that with absolutely no questions asked, other than advice on how to double check if I could easily fix the problem myself, a replacement is being sent. Great service, and I will hobble along just fine with one sub until then. (It easily has more output than I will probably ever need).
> 
> Took me a while to figure out my perfect setup, but pretty sure this is it. In fact, I think dual XS15se's would likely have been more than adequate. They seem to eclipse a single XS30(original version) by a decent margin. But I figure if I want to add a strong housecurve the XV's will give me more headroom than I will ever need down low.


 Oh I'm sure its nothing you did, these things occur with electronics. We will go a couple hundred in a row with no problems ever being reported and then we'll see the "early death" issue with 2-3 of the next 20. Our QC process is always evolving in attempts to minimize these scenarios. They are just as frustrating for us as they are to our customers I can assure you. The DSP "frontend" on our amplifiers offer many benefits but all of the processing and encoding also add exponentially to the variables when troubleshooting. challenges keep things interesting..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## BeeMan458

Myself? I have excellent luck with anything with a cord. My Father-In-Law has terrible luck with anything that has a cord or a battery.

Yes. Agreeing with you, when it comes to electricity, luck has a lot to do with how well things turn out.


----------



## Bear123

Well, I am taking one variable out of the equation. I am going from what are, in my opinion, questionable quality subwoofer cables, to superb quality BJC cables. They were not as cheap as monoprice, but for under $100 for three of them totaling 48' in length, I think it is money well spent. I noticed with the MP cables, I had to be really careful not to touch or move them once hooked up or it would sometimes make that loud "boomp" sound like the connection was bad. I hope this did not contribute to the failure, but I am not taking any chances.


----------



## BeeMan458

When someone posts, cables is cables, the assumption is they're of the correct gauge of wire and "properly" made; no loose connections or bad solder joints.

(it's okay to assume cause if a person couldn't assume, they couldn't get out of the bed in the morning)


----------



## NBPk402

Bear123 said:


> Well, I am taking one variable out of the equation. I am going from what are, in my opinion, questionable quality subwoofer cables, to superb quality BJC cables. They were not as cheap as monoprice, but for under $100 for three of them totaling 48' in length, I think it is money well spent. I noticed with the MP cables, I had to be really careful not to touch or move them once hooked up or it would sometimes make that loud "boomp" sound like the connection was bad. I hope this did not contribute to the failure, but I am not taking any chances.


If you have a problem with a MP cable... Contact them for an exchange as they have a "Lifetime" warranty.


----------



## Bear123

Thanks ellis. However, unless they are willing to issue a refund, I prefer not to use them anymore, at least the subwoofer cables. I have a 35' and a 6' that will be trashed if they will not refund them. I am happily using a handful of their slim HDMI cables though.


----------



## BeeMan458

Bear123 said:


> I have a 35' and a 6' that will be trashed if they will not refund them.


Not knocking BJC or Monoprice; our subwoofer cable of choice is the Mediabridge line.

I just checked on Amazon and for what ever reason, they don't show Mediabridge subwoofer cables and I've purchased a boatload of Mediabridge from Amazon.

...:huh:


----------



## willis7469

I've had really good luck with media bridge hdmi cables. More to the point though, at one point, I had RG6 terminated with RCA ends. My neighbor used to run Hamm radio and I needed something with more shielding than what I had. 15 bucks for 50' iirc.


----------



## Basshead81

The key with monoprice is to buy the premium. I bought redmere hdmi and they work flawless. Also bought the premium coaxial cables and they work great. I have tried everything except blu jeans and over priced audio quest.


----------



## BeeMan458

Mediabridge makes a double shielded 35' subwoofer cable.


----------



## climber07

BeeMan458 said:


> Mediabridge makes a double shielded 35' subwoofer cable.


I have one of those. Well made, sturdy, and tight connection. I'm getting a second one for my other sub that has a cheapo cable.


----------



## NBPk402

Basshead81 said:


> The key with monoprice is to buy the premium. I bought redmere hdmi and they work flawless. Also bought the premium coaxial cables and they work great. I have tried everything except blu jeans and over priced audio quest.


Back before I knew of Monoprice... I bought one of the $100+ 3' HDMI cables from AudioQuest and it died about a year or two later. I thought at the time I had a problem elsewhere, but it turned out to be the AudioQuest cable. I do have to admit though that it was a nice looking cable.


----------



## needspeed52

ellisr63 said:


> Back before I knew of Monoprice... I bought one of the $100+ 3' HDMI cables from AudioQuest and it died about a year or two later. I thought at the time I had a problem elsewhere, but it turned out to be the AudioQuest cable. I do have to admit though that it was a nice looking cable.


Nice looking really makes the cable sound and last longer, see if AQ will refund your $100+ now. BJC offers lifetime warranties, haven't had a failure in over several years and I have all of their cables. The Media Bridge sub cable I have seems to be well made, it's a 25' cable for $14, I have to try it out as I will be needing two 25' lengths shortly. Ron, I sold my Cordovan Triax as well, really had a hard time letting it go. Went to a good home and was local pickup, won't mention who bought it but now he has four:yikes:. hey Bear got my two XV15SEs up and running, you're going to be pleasantly surprised when you get the new amp for your second SE. Hope to have four XV15SEs real soon, deciding on placement, tough decisions :T Take care.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## willis7469

Hey speed! Hope your feeling well. 
Btw, what happened to the triax?


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> Hey speed! Hope your feeling well.
> Btw, what happened to the triax?



Will, nothing happened to it, I decided that I needed multiple subs and didn't want to spend $3700 more for another Cordovan Triax. The one was plenty but you know how we are, more is better and enough is never enough:coocoo:
Cheers Jeff


----------



## NBPk402

needspeed52 said:


> Nice looking really makes the cable sound and last longer, see if AQ will refund your $100+ now. BJC offers lifetime warranties, haven't had a failure in over several years and I have all of their cables. The Media Bridge sub cable I have seems to be well made, it's a 25' cable for $14, I have to try it out as I will be needing two 25' lengths shortly. Ron, I sold my Cordovan Triax as well, really had a hard time letting it go. Went to a good home and was local pickup, won't mention who bought it but now he has four:yikes:. hey Bear got my two XV15SEs up and running, you're going to be pleasantly surprised when you get the new amp for your second SE. Hope to have four XV15SEs real soon, deciding on placement, tough decisions :T Take care.
> Cheers Jeff


I threw the cable away already. Yeah I hated to see mine go too.


----------



## needspeed52

ellisr63 said:


> I threw the cable away already. Yeah I hated to see mine go too.


That's a shame. He took the Triax in pieces, had surgery and couldn't help. One driver at a time and then the cab, those drivers are massive, at least 50lbs. a piece, amazing. The four XV15SEs will help ease the pain tho.


----------



## NBPk402

needspeed52 said:


> That's a shame. He took the Triax in pieces, had surgery and couldn't help. One driver at a time and then the cab, those drivers are massive, at least 50lbs. a piece, amazing. The four XV15SEs will help ease the pain tho.


How big is his room for 4 Triax subs?


----------



## Tom V.

Quick heads up, we just put a couple of subs in the outlet center. These were traded in for the newer SE versions.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Bear123

needspeed52 said:


> Nice looking really makes the cable sound and last longer, see if AQ will refund your $100+ now. BJC offers lifetime warranties, haven't had a failure in over several years and I have all of their cables. The Media Bridge sub cable I have seems to be well made, it's a 25' cable for $14, I have to try it out as I will be needing two 25' lengths shortly. Ron, I sold my Cordovan Triax as well, really had a hard time letting it go. Went to a good home and was local pickup, won't mention who bought it but now he has four:yikes:. hey Bear got my two XV15SEs up and running, you're going to be pleasantly surprised when you get the new amp for your second SE. Hope to have four XV15SEs real soon, deciding on placement, tough decisions :T Take care.
> Cheers Jeff


Sweet, you have all four up and running yet? Just got mine set up today. I ran a new power cord/surge protector last night when I got home from my NYC trip, and ran three brand new Blue Jeans Cable subwoofer cables. VERY high quality, and nice and pliable for routing. I had to experiment a bit with REW and my miniDSP to get the response where I wanted it down low, but I am happy with the results. As you will see, I put in a house curve starting at 50 Hz and increasing down to about 16. Its nice and flat for music, with boatloads of output, and nice strong LFE response for movies at the lower volumes I listen to (-20 to -15).


----------



## needspeed52

ellisr63 said:


> How big is his room for 4 Triax subs?


Don't know Ron, I think he mentioned at least 25' X 30'


----------



## willis7469

4 triax....drool.....


----------



## needspeed52

Bear123 said:


> Sweet, you have all four up and running yet? Just got mine set up today. I ran a new power cord/surge protector last night when I got home from my NYC trip, and ran three brand new Blue Jeans Cable subwoofer cables. VERY high quality, and nice and pliable for routing. I had to experiment a bit with REW and my miniDSP to get the response where I wanted it down low, but I am happy with the results. As you will see, I put in a house curve starting at 50 Hz and increasing down to about 16. Its nice and flat for music, with boatloads of output, and nice strong LFE response for movies at the lower volumes I listen to (-20 to -15).


Very nice my friend and no I'm still working on my room so I can place the other two in the locations where I will get the best FR, should be another week or so, also making room for the new speaks:spend:


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all, 

We have gotten a few more subs in trade toward the SE with a few more still on the way(back). We're not really interested in keeping these around for any length of time so we're offering special deals in the outlet center. 

We have a few XS30s (look and perform like new) with full 5 year warranty at $999. 

We will also have dual XS15s in there soon as well($649 each, $1249 for both) Sorry, no XV15s or XV30F at this time.

First come, first served.. Thanks. 

Tom V.


----------



## Basshead81

Crickets....


----------



## Mike0206

Yeah any news on the speaker line up? It's been pretty quiet on that front as of late. I'm sure PSA is hard at work with R&D right now especially if the speakers are a go.


----------



## Bear123

My best guess would be late summer. Just going by an off the cuff remark, nothing official.


----------



## Basshead81

Interested to see some pics of the new speaker line.


----------



## needspeed52

Basshead81 said:


> Interested to see some pics of the new speaker line.


Likewise my friend as I'm hoping to be the first to own them:T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## willis7469

needspeed52 said:


> Likewise my friend as I'm hoping to be the first to own them:T Cheers Jeff


I hope you can be 1st speed! I'm very interested as well.


----------



## needspeed52

willis7469 said:


> I hope you can be 1st speed! I'm very interested as well.


willis, I wish I wasn't so determined to have these, I'm driving Jim and Tom crazy with questions, all I can say is that they are a way off from now, so no news for a least a few weeks to months.:hissyfit:
I advice all not to bother PSA with these speaker questions until they make us aware, I'm first on the list but that really doesn't mean anything until they are ready.lddude:
Jeff


----------



## Tom V.

needspeed52 said:


> willis, I wish I wasn't so determined to have these, I'm driving Jim and Tom crazy with questions, all I can say is that they are a way off from now, so no news for a least a few weeks to months.:hissyfit:
> I advice all not to bother PSA with these speaker questions until they make us aware, I'm first on the list but that really doesn't mean anything until they are ready.lddude:
> Jeff


 Barring something extreme it certainly won't be "months". Give us a couple more weeks and I bet we'll have some updates we can share.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

needspeed52 said:


> willis, I wish I wasn't so determined to have these, I'm driving Jim and Tom crazy with questions, all I can say is that they are a way off from now, so no news for a least a few weeks to months.:hissyfit:
> I advice all not to bother PSA with these speaker questions until they make us aware, I'm first on the list but that really doesn't mean anything until they are ready.lddude:
> Jeff


 Barring something extreme it certainly won't be "months". Give us a couple more weeks and I bet we'll have some updates we can share.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Mike0206

Tom V. said:


> Barring something extreme it certainly won't be "months". Give us a couple more weeks and I bet we'll have some updates we can share. Tom V. Power Sound Audio


 Nice! That's what I like to hear! I'll be waiting patiently to see how these things develop as time goes on. I may head in another direction with my home heater setup so keeping my eyes open to all options is a must right now.


----------



## Basshead81

The XS15se and XV30se data is up over @ www.data-bass.com/systems


----------



## gorb

Yeah. Impressive measurements, especially on a per/$ basis. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the Triax. I'd love to see the other top sealed units on there like the Submersive HP and Captivator S2. Maybe one day


----------



## Tom V.

gorb said:


> Yeah. Impressive measurements, especially on a per/$ basis. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing the Triax. I'd love to see the other top sealed units on there like the Submersive HP and Captivator S2. Maybe one day


 Thanks. We're hoping to have a Triax off to Josh before the end of the year.

The XS15se are a little under rated imo. If you go with a dual package at $1499, you are basically matching the output and extension of the $9000 Paradigm Sub 2. The XS15se has a little better sound quality metrics too(impulse, group delay, etc). It really "fights above its weight" so to speak.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## gorb

Tom V. said:


> Thanks. We're hoping to have a Triax off to Josh before the end of the year.
> 
> The XS15se are a little under rated imo. If you go with a dual package at $1499, you are basically matching the output and extension of the $9000 Paradigm Sub 2. The XS15se has a little better sound quality metrics too(impulse, group delay, etc). It really "fights above its weight" so to speak.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Yeah. If I wasn't getting married soon and actually had the budget for some HT upgrades, I'd definitely be considering a multi sealed system like the XS15SE (or XS30SEs ). Unfortunately, I don't think HT upgrades will be in the budget for a long time to come


----------



## Reefdvr27

gorb said:


> Yeah. If I wasn't getting married soon and actually had the budget for some HT upgrades, I'd definitely be considering a multi sealed system like the XS15SE (or XS30SEs ). Unfortunately, I don't think HT upgrades will be in the budget for a long time to come


 Put the subs on the gift list for the wedding :bigsmile: Or you can use some of awesome wedding money you get !! It will be a the gift that keeps giving.


----------



## gorb

Reefdvr27 said:


> Put the subs on the gift list for the wedding :bigsmile: Or you can use some of awesome wedding money you get !! It will be a the gift that keeps giving.


Yeah, that would be nice  Whatever people give us will be greatly appreciated of course but no gifts are required from anybody. If we do get money it will of course go towards existing debt or things that actually matter. Boo to responsibility


----------



## Saturn94

I just saw on Power Sound's website that they are now offering a 30 day in home trial on the XS15se and XV15se with free shipping both ways!


----------



## Tom V.

Saturn94 said:


> I just saw on Power Sound's website that they are now offering a 30 day in home trial on the XS15se and XV15se with free shipping both ways!


 Yeah, so far it seems to be drawing a bit of attention from prospective customers. We may extend this to the XS30se at some point too. Right now, orders are slightly ahead of our production capabilities so we don't want to make that any worse. 

We may consider this for the speakers as well. 

Tom V. 
Power Sound Audio


----------



## labman1

Okay I have had 3 days since I installed the XS15se upgrade and have listened to an SACD "Dark Side of the Moon" and a couple BD's "2 Guns" and "Oblivion". and assorted DD movies on dish. The SE driver is not a minor upgrade I can tell the difference in speed and output. I have 2 XS15's one is the SE the other is not. At least for another couple weeks! I would switch the SE off and listen to the generic XS15, not that there is any thing wrong with that. I could really *feel *the difference in my small room 1550^ft.between the SE and the regular version. When calibrating with XT32 the gain on the Se is set a tad lower. If anyone is on the fence about upgrading don't hesitate! I don't know why I waited so long. Will order the other one next week for a B-Day gift.

A little off topic but how many run Audyssey and then calibrate with an spl meter to 75db's? It seems like Audyssey always sets the subs a little low. I go in to the pre-pro and turn the sub level up but it does not seem it does the same job as using the spl meter. Any thoughts?


----------



## needspeed52

Tom V. said:


> Yeah, so far it seems to be drawing a bit of attention from prospective customers. We may extend this to the XS30se at some point too. Right now, orders are slightly ahead of our production capabilities so we don't want to make that any worse.
> 
> We may consider this for the speakers as well.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Tom, speaking of speakers............................................lddude:
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Tom V.

needspeed52 said:


> Tom, speaking of speakers............................................lddude:
> Cheers Jeff


 Jim's been on vacation for about a week = things grind to a halt as I'm here by myself for the most part. He get's back tomorrow so hopefully he is well rested.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## needspeed52

Tom V. said:


> Jim's been on vacation for about a week = things grind to a halt as I'm here by myself for the most part. He get's back tomorrow so hopefully he is well rested.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


That's good news Tom, vacations are taken after all design, fabrication and complete prototypes are completed, just kidding my friend, looking so forward to the new speaker line, I SERIOUSLY DOUBT I will be returning the speakers when I finally get them but it is good news to know you're considering free shipping both ways.Keep up the good work and get Jim back to finishing MY speakers.  I would like them autographed as well by you and Jim and built exclusively for Jeffrey L Nordi :T
Cheers my friend, Jeffrey


----------



## Jeff L

labman1 said:


> Okay I have had 3 days since I installed the XS15se upgrade and have listened to an SACD "Dark Side of the Moon" and a couple BD's "2 Guns" and "Oblivion". and assorted DD movies on dish. The SE driver is not a minor upgrade I can tell the difference in speed and output. I have 2 XS15's one is the SE the other is not. At least for another couple weeks! I would switch the SE off and listen to the generic XS15, not that there is any thing wrong with that. I could really *feel *the difference in my small room 1550^ft.between the SE and the regular version. When calibrating with XT32 the gain on the Se is set a tad lower. If anyone is on the fence about upgrading don't hesitate! I don't know why I waited so long. Will order the other one next week for a B-Day gift.
> 
> A little off topic but how many run Audyssey and then calibrate with an spl meter to 75db's? It seems like Audyssey always sets the subs a little low. I go in to the pre-pro and turn the sub level up but it does not seem it does the same job as using the spl meter. Any thoughts?


Hey Labman1 I have the xv15se and Tom had pointed me towards using REW, I ended up getting a miniDSP and umik-1 and using REW and the difference is night and day. I had some things I wasn't happy with and these were a game changer. Cleaner,tighter and stronger response now in my problem areas 15hz @ 85db and im still below reference levels. If you can spend another $200 do it, I promise you WILL know where the money
went when your done. Great subs look forward to getting my second.

Regards Jeff


----------



## Tom V.

First XS30se review is up.

http://referencehometheater.com/review/power-sound-audio-xs30se-subwoofer-review/

He is going to add CEA-2010 measurements soon.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Crazykat

Tom V. said:


> First XS30se review is up.
> 
> http://referencehometheater.com/review/power-sound-audio-xs30se-subwoofer-review/
> 
> He is going to add CEA-2010 measurements soon.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Congratulations to Tom & Jim, PSA is producing great equipment. Keep up the good work. :T


----------



## mdanderson

Way to go Tom and Jim. Very nice review by Chris Heinonen who is well respected in the industry.


----------



## Tom V.

Thanks for the props on the recent XS30se review.

Also, we are now offering free shipping both ways on the XS30se. We held off for a bit as we had a hard time keeping up with orders without further incentive to purchase. But we finally caught up so we decided to flip the "switch"..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

We have one XV30Fse with a couple small scuffs in the outlet center for $1349.

This is *the* XV30Fse Josh Ricci measured so you are buying a bit of history too in some regards I suppose?

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/colle...ucts/xv30fse-b

We'll have a couple news updates on the website in the next week or so...stay tuned.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Jeff L

I just saw that PSA is now offering the miniDSP on their website. Im curious if any other manufacturers will follow suit. The miniDSP for me was worth the money vs the improvements I received. good combinationand another reason to consider PSA.


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all, update on our fantasy football stuff,



Please see the original post here which contains all of the details of how the league will be run. 

https://www.facebook.com/powersoundaudio/posts/546689835439723

We still have room for a few players so please email me at [email protected] asap if you are interested. I would like everyone's feedback on the best evening for "draft night". Right now I'm thinking either Sunday (the 31st) or Monday (Sep 1st). 

3rd place will be a choice of a $25 gift certificate for any Power Sound Audio product or a pair of our travel mugs 

2nd place will be a choice of a $100 gift certificate for any Power Sound Audio product or a miniDSP bass equalizer. This is a $139 
value. http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/accessories/products/minidsp-2x4 

1st place will be a choice of a $200 gift certificate for any Power Sound Audio product or a miniDSP and UMIK microphone. This is a $229 value. http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/accessories/products/minidsp-2x4
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/accessories/products/umik-1

Thanks. And please remember, we have a FEW spaces left but please contact me asap if you are interested as they will be first come/first served


Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all, 

The XV15se b-stock didn't last long but we do have a couple of XV30Fse office demos we are moving out soon. Please email me at [email protected] (or come into the website chat) if you are interested. Thanks.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Heads-up,

We have a couple XV15se going up in the outlet center as soon as we have time to update the site. 5% off each(so $854 versus $899). If someone wanted both....let's call it $1550.

Same 5 year warranty, 30 audition, free shipping both ways, etc. Both look/perform like new.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## labman1

Okay PSA fans have a question. I have a 7.2 system with 2 XS15se's. My room is a little over 1600cu.ft. I run Audyssey on the Marantz 8801 and it has me calibrate the subs to 75 db. I try to do this where it is flashing red/green a little hot, when I run all 8 positions it sets the subs to 9.0 sub 2 at 9.5. When I listen to a blu ray on an Oppo bdp95 the bass seems anemic. Should I bump up the sub level 5 or 6 db's? After I do this and then use a RS spl meter and the 8801 test tones it is not close to 75 db's. Any suggestions? I have a UMIK 1 and am trying to figure out howw to run REW and see where I am at. In the mean time any suggestions are appreciated
Thanks


----------



## needspeed52

labman1 said:


> Okay PSA fans have a question. I have a 7.2 system with 2 XS15se's. My room is a little over 1600cu.ft. I run Audyssey on the Marantz 8801 and it has me calibrate the subs to 75 db. I try to do this where it is flashing red/green a little hot, when I run all 8 positions it sets the subs to 9.0 sub 2 at 9.5. When I listen to a blu ray on an Oppo bdp95 the bass seems anemic. Should I bump up the sub level 5 or 6 db's? After I do this and then use a RS spl meter and the 8801 test tones it is not close to 75 db's. Any suggestions? I have a UMIK 1 and am trying to figure out howw to run REW and see where I am at. In the mean time any suggestions are appreciated
> Thanks


Where is the sub gain set at, I like to set my gain between 1-2 o'clock on the sub's amp gain. Try dialing in your subs manually with a slp meter first, with the meter set your speakers to 75db using the Marantz's test tones and then do each sub individually, turn one off and measure the output with the meter of the active sub to about 75dB, shut that one off and do the next one also at about 75dB. Turn both subs on and measure with meter, you should see a 4-5 dB increase in output over the 75dB that you initially set for a single sub, I like to run my subs about 3-5 dB hot. Use the trim levels to decrease both subs output if it's over 80dB. Ideally you want to be on the - side of 0dB not the + side. I think you have your sub's gains set too low, PSA subs respond well with gain set between 1-3 o'clock, you can always turn them down with the sub trim levels. I hope this is not something you're totally aware of and I'm just taking for granted that you don't know this, if you do I apologize. What I do before Audyssey is set my subs gains and run a quick one position mic sweep and see where Audy sets my sub levels, If I get a reading of -3 to -8dB sub level then I proceed with full auto calibration, this way you have a good idea where Audyssey will set your sub levels and you can always bump them up when you have - or negative dB reading, the object is stay below the + side of 0. Like I said don't be afraid to set your PSA subs gain a bit higher past the halfway or 12 'o'clock position, that's the reason when you test with the meter you're not near 75dB output, turn up the sub gain. I hope this was somewhat of a help as I want you to experience how good your subs could sound especially in a 1600cf space. you should be getting real good output and the XS15s can dig fairly deep as well.:T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## needspeed52

labman1 said:


> Okay PSA fans have a question. I have a 7.2 system with 2 XS15se's. My room is a little over 1600cu.ft. I run Audyssey on the Marantz 8801 and it has me calibrate the subs to 75 db. I try to do this where it is flashing red/green a little hot, when I run all 8 positions it sets the subs to 9.0 sub 2 at 9.5. When I listen to a blu ray on an Oppo bdp95 the bass seems anemic. Should I bump up the sub level 5 or 6 db's? After I do this and then use a RS spl meter and the 8801 test tones it is not close to 75 db's. Any suggestions? I have a UMIK 1 and am trying to figure out howw to run REW and see where I am at. In the mean time any suggestions are appreciated
> Thanks


Hey Lab, I just looked at your system and I see you have a real nice setup, so I apologize for the basic elementary subwoofer set up guide, I just happen to have owned every sub PSA makes and I know how they act and what works for me. Those little XS15s should pleasantly surprise you.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## labman1

Jeff I appreciate the help! When I run Audyssey I just walk through the system set up. Set 1 sub to 75db then set sub 2. My gains are at on the - side of 12:00 so that is a problem. When you run Audyssey you just do the subs and the first mic reading. How do you reset if it is not what you want? Unplug the mic and start over? I am going to do this tomorrow I feel I can get a lot more out of these subs. Where do you like the subs set when you run Audyssey? Minus 3 or 4? I really appreciate the help!


----------



## needspeed52

labman1 said:


> Jeff I appreciate the help! When I run Audyssey I just walk through the system set up. Set 1 sub to 75db then set sub 2. My gains are at on the - side of 12:00 so that is a problem. When you run Audyssey you just do the subs and the first mic reading. How do you reset if it is not what you want? Unplug the mic and start over? I am going to do this tomorrow I feel I can get a lot more out of these subs. Where do you like the subs set when you run Audyssey? Minus 3 or 4? I really appreciate the help!


I've run Audyssey with the sub(s) gain as high as -9dB, that's after the first quick setup, you want to be on the bottom part of 0, like I said -3 to -9dB, this way when you run the full audyssey calibration you know you will have some leeway to bump the trim levels up close to 0. After Audyssey I usually end up with about -8dB for the subs, that's with the gain at about 1:00. After Audyssey I turn each sub's gain knobs equally to about 2:00 and measure with SPL meter, you should be above 80dB after you turn the gains up to 2 even 3: o'clock that's OK to do with the XS15s or any other X series subs from PSA, their gain structure is a little different. Then you have the options to turn down the trim levels in the AVR or pre-pro, that's how I get my subs to come alive. They are quite capable subs the XS15s, don't be afraid to turn the gains up and then adjust with the trim levels to get your desired combined output. I run at 3-5dB hot and I'm amazed and so will you be. So after calibration turn the gains up equally and measure with SPL meter and adjust accordingly. You're not changing any thing Audyssey did except the sub(s) output, you'll still benefit from the EQ and distances and delays Audyssey sets, you'll just have some serious bass output from those little gems. If you follow any PSA sub threads out there you notice the standard gain settings are around the 1 to 3 o'clock position on the X series subs. Hope this helps a bit. If you want just set the gains on both subs as close to the 2 o'clock position and put in a BD with some decent LFE and listen without any calibration. This will give you a good idea what they are capable of if you have then properly placed which I'm sure you do. A lot of people who buy the PSA subs do this out of the box without calibration to get an idea what these subs are about.:T
Cheers Jeff


----------



## weevil6772

Just got in 2 XS30SE's an absolutely LOVE them!!!!


----------



## Audiofan1

labman1 said:


> Okay PSA fans have a question. I have a 7.2 system with 2 XS15se's. My room is a little over 1600cu.ft. I run Audyssey on the Marantz 8801 and it has me calibrate the subs to 75 db. I try to do this where it is flashing red/green a little hot, when I run all 8 positions it sets the subs to 9.0 sub 2 at 9.5. When I listen to a blu ray on an Oppo bdp95 the bass seems anemic. Should I bump up the sub level 5 or 6 db's? After I do this and then use a RS spl meter and the 8801 test tones it is not close to 75 db's. Any suggestions? I have a UMIK 1 and am trying to figure out howw to run REW and see where I am at. In the mean time any suggestions are appreciated
> Thanks


My 8801 after Audyseey sets the the subs 5db to low, just bump up the level in the 8801 5db and you're set. After that if you want more bass consider it running hot by whatever amount say an additional 3 db on top of what should be -4 to -4.5 in the 8801's sub level:T


----------



## Jeff L

Audyssey does that, I don't know of anyone sticking with the settings it comes up with. Put it where the sound makes you happy


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,


Just a heads-up. We'll have an updated website live within a few days. Please check it out as there will be various improvements and news updates.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Picture_Shooter

Tom V. said:


> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Just a heads-up. We'll have an updated website live within a few days. Please check it out as there will be various improvements and news updates.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Your new subs design looks very nice.


----------



## Axiomite

Apologies if this has been asked before in this thread, but is there an option to have magnetically attached grills? A simple cosmetic feature that would be handy to have.


----------



## needspeed52

Axiomite said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before in this thread, but is there an option to have magnetically attached grills? A simple cosmetic feature that would be handy to have.


I doubt that's a possibility, maybe in the future though.


----------



## jreb14

I just setup a used XV-15 that I purchased off an ad, and boy have subs come along way. I really like how solid it sounds no boom. It absolutely blows the Carver Sunfire True-subwoofer away no comparison in sound. I like how it blends in and is subtle perfect for what I am looking for.


----------



## Tom V.

Axiomite said:


> Apologies if this has been asked before in this thread, but is there an option to have magnetically attached grills? A simple cosmetic feature that would be handy to have.


 We've considered this and may circle back to it in the future. It can be difficult to ensure the finish around the magnet looks professional over a period of time though. Everything can look good initially and then a few months later it looks...well....like someone spray painted it with a can.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## 480dad

Had an XV15se for about a month then decided to exchange it for PSAs new V1500 with the 725 watt ICE amp. It's nice to know the PSA guys are right there if you ever need them, doesn't matter how insignificant or silly your question may be. They are there, Tom V or Jim F, seemingly 24-7. Can't say enough good about how great these guys are to deal with and how superb their products are. I'm ecstatic with this sub and how easy it is to integrate and dial in. A lot a great sub builders out there, these guys are right there with the best.


----------



## needspeed52

Sorry wrong thread.


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Important news about the S3000 and S3000i

We have decided to eliminate the S3000 from our product lineup. We have reached this decision based on several factors.

First, the S3000i has been outselling the S3000 by a *wide* ratio. 

Second, eliminating the S3000 model from our lineup allows us to be more efficient with our inventory turns across several key SKUs. The end result is we can lower the pricing on the S3000i to $1499. Or, $2849 for a dual package. Since there is only a $100 difference(less than 7%) between the two models offering both becomes a bit redundant.

Anyone who currently has a S3000 on order will receive the upgraded S3000i at no additional charge.
Anyone who has a S3000i order will see a $100 refund to their account when we ship their order.
Anyone who has a DUAL S3000i order will receive a $150 refund to their account when we ship their order.

We will begin shipping the S3000i subwoofers on Wednesday the 25th and should have all current orders fulfilled no later than Thursday the 26th.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## raynist

Got my AT screen up finally. 

2 Triax's are behind the screen and the other two behind my couch where the picture was taken. 

Should have done this years ago!

Sounds better and much cleaner looking. I wish that door wasn't ther so I could have a bigger screen!!


----------



## willis7469

2+2 triax's. Why am I laughing hysterically? That's awesome.


----------



## cez123

Double... triple... 12? Had to google it. Duodecuple! Haha. Awesome.


----------



## 480dad

Well, I don't have 25 triax's like Ray but this was at the front door when I came home from work!!


----------



## 480dad

Now Sampson has a buddy (don't tell me you guys don't name your subs).


----------



## needspeed52

Dual V1500s???:T


----------



## 480dad

needspeed52 said:


> Dual V1500s???:T


Yessir! And, here's a big shout out to PSA...awesome people to do business with!


----------



## willis7469

480dad said:


> Now Sampson has a buddy (don't tell me you guys don't name your subs).


 first off, congrats on everything! I've been lurking in your other thread, but minding my distance. Seems to be really coming around. Inspired me to look more closely at "stats" for my distant future upgrade. And thanks. I've never named my subs, but now I am thinking of some good ones. Samson is good! Samson and hercules. Lol


----------



## 480dad

willis7469 said:


> first off, congrats on everything! I've been lurking in your other thread, but minding my distance. Seems to be really coming around. Inspired me to look more closely at "stats" for my distant future upgrade. And thanks. I've never named my subs, but now I am thinking of some good ones. Samson is good! Samson and hercules. Lol


Thanks Will. My son came home from college for Easter and was like "geeez, dad, do we have any inheritance left?" I said "you're looking at it!". Definitely night and day difference since I joined in January. I do a couple other hobby forums but this one is far more technical and the folks do a great job helping people and in a friendly way. It's pretty neat. 

You don't need to lurk on the other threads, I've like to hear your thoughts.

Hercules...I like it!:T


----------



## GusGus748s

480dad said:


> Now Sampson has a buddy (don't tell me you guys don't name your subs).
> 
> View attachment 88058


Wow, they look tiny...like bookshelves speakers!


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Just a reminder for anyone thinking about the XS15se. It is currently $749/$1449 for duals (including shipping to lower 48) as we won't have a production run scheduled for another 9-10 days. 

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=105

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...er-sound-audio-xs15-review.html#axzz2CteU796X

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...powersound-audio-xs15se-subwoofer-review.html

Feel free to use the data-bass comparison tab. You'll quickly find out you'll need to spend about $1500 to match the XS15se in output and sound quality.

Free shipping both ways, 30 day audition, Made in USA, 5 year warranty, unparalleled customer service. 

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/xs15se

Please take advantage of this pricing when possible. Once this production run is filled we'll be back to $799/$1499.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all, couple quick updates.

1)We are offering the original XV15 at $699 including shipping for a short time. This subwoofer won product of the year and was is also on the list of recommended products at SoundandVision magazine. 

2)We are offering some very attractive discounts on all of our subwoofers if you add the Anti Mode 8033S-II or the 2.0 Dual Core to the order. 

One example is dual S1500 + the 8033S-II for $2049. Each S1500 is discounted down to $799 in this package...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Savjac

Ordered one I did, kind of excited thinks me.


----------



## Lumen

Hi, Jack! Care to share any impressions? I may spring for this instead of the SVS SB13 Ultra I'm auditioning ($1600, 1000W, 20-460Hz +/-3db). TIA!


----------



## 480dad

sent you a pm lou


----------



## Savjac

BlueRockinLou said:


> Hi, Jack! Care to share any impressions? I may spring for this instead of the SVS SB13 Ultra I'm auditioning ($1600, 1000W, 20-460Hz +/-3db). TIA!


Sure Lou

While I am still listening and dialing in performance, this sub, especially for the price, is the bees knees. I have had numerous subs in the past from Def Tech, Velodyne, Emotive etc and for the first time in years I can now clearly hear the foundation of the music. While this sub like any other will work most excellent for general rock, pop and blues it is classical music and movies where it shines.
The Def Tech were also large with 15" woofers and vented so we are talking apples to apples here but they could not possess the lower frequencies with anything like the power of the PSA. 

With movies lets say, the rush of bottom end makes my mouth smile without any thought from me to do so. It digs deep, no it digs way deep in a way that is so clean, tight and quick that one minute you may be the Maxell man and the next second nothing, just like a good sub should do. There when needed, gone when not. 

Now with music, there really is nothing it cannot accomplish in a, shall we say, musical way. Taj Mahal's Maestro cd has some truly lovely tests of how a sub can track a musical event. In the cut, "Strong Man Holler" the PSA puts forth waves of deep and powerful bass that could easily rattle the fillings from your mouth. Accurate ?? I dont know as I have not heard this cut live, but it will raise the goose in your flesh.

Tom Jones, "Praise and Blame" with its gospel oriented groove also has the devils bottom end that could on occasion easily turn some subs into umbrellas, rolls off the PSA's cabinet.

The Telarc version of Aaron Copeland's "Appalation Spring", particularly the Fanfare for the Common Man cut has some of the most incredible concert/band drums I have ever heard. You can not only hear the tympani's diddling off in the distance, but you can hear and almost count the individual shudders when the mallet hits the skin of the big drums. This cut can move plates and maybe even chairs. 

The Airbourne Toxic Effect cd, "All at Once" has a cut called The Kids are Ready to Die. It starts out nice enough with Mikel Jollett doing his best yodeling/singing accompanied by a nice guitar and a good bit of reverb. After a couple verses there is a feeling that something is not right in that a slight but very present low grumble is happening somewhere in the room. Suddenly....gone one must wonder if they heard/felt it at all or was it a mistake. Halfway into the next verse, a lyrical point is made with a heavy drum smack with the introduction of something, I am not sure what, but it shudders so hard that damage can be done to your room. Its not all that low I dont thing but it is sooo powerful. The PSA, again, does not even seem fazed. 

I could go on but will stop with the examples. I must touch on the business end of things. PSA has the absolute best customer service I have even experienced in a specialy audio group. Have a question, not a problem, email or call it in and Tom will get back to you within minutes, no charge. Want to discuss room issues, well go ahead and do it. Want to find what is best for you ? No problem. I will be buying a second sub as soon as I can sell the other subs in my room, hands down the best experience I have ever had.

But that is just my opinion of course, you are welcome to come down and listen.


----------



## Savjac

Wow it seems I can kill a thread with but one post, I should win a prize or something:blink:.


----------



## Lumen

Savjac said:


> Wow it seems I can kill a thread with but one post, I should win a prize or something:blink:.


Hmmm, I thought I was the only one. :R
*I am so sorry!* You fell off my radar while I was being a selfish shopper of subs and debugger of room modes.



Savjac said:


> Sure Lou
> 
> While I am still listening and dialing in performance, this sub, especially for the price, is the bees knees. I have had numerous subs in the past from Def Tech, Velodyne, Emotive etc and for the first time in years I can now clearly hear the foundation of the music. While this sub like any other will work most excellent for general rock, pop and blues it is classical music and movies where it shines.
> The Def Tech were also large with 15" woofers and vented so we are talking apples to apples here but they could not possess the lower frequencies with anything like the power of the PSA.
> 
> With movies lets say, the rush of bottom end makes my mouth smile without any thought from me to do so. It digs deep, no it digs way deep in a way that is so clean, tight and quick that one minute you may be the Maxell man and the next second nothing, just like a good sub should do. There when needed, gone when not.
> 
> Now with music, there really is nothing it cannot accomplish in a, shall we say, musical way. Taj Mahal's Maestro cd has some truly lovely tests of how a sub can track a musical event. In the cut, "Strong Man Holler" the PSA puts forth waves of deep and powerful bass that could easily rattle the fillings from your mouth. Accurate ?? I dont know as I have not heard this cut live, but it will raise the goose in your flesh.
> 
> Tom Jones, "Praise and Blame" with its gospel oriented groove also has the devils bottom end that could on occasion easily turn some subs into umbrellas, rolls off the PSA's cabinet.
> 
> The Telarc version of Aaron Copeland's "Appalation Spring", particularly the Fanfare for the Common Man cut has some of the most incredible concert/band drums I have ever heard. You can not only hear the tympani's diddling off in the distance, but you can hear and almost count the individual shudders when the mallet hits the skin of the big drums. This cut can move plates and maybe even chairs.
> 
> The Airbourne Toxic Effect cd, "All at Once" has a cut called The Kids are Ready to Die. It starts out nice enough with Mikel Jollett doing his best yodeling/singing accompanied by a nice guitar and a good bit of reverb. After a couple verses there is a feeling that something is not right in that a slight but very present low grumble is happening somewhere in the room. Suddenly....gone one must wonder if they heard/felt it at all or was it a mistake. Halfway into the next verse, a lyrical point is made with a heavy drum smack with the introduction of something, I am not sure what, but it shudders so hard that damage can be done to your room. Its not all that low I dont thing but it is sooo powerful. The PSA, again, does not even seem fazed.
> 
> I could go on but will stop with the examples. I must touch on the business end of things. PSA has the absolute best customer service I have even experienced in a specialy audio group. Have a question, not a problem, email or call it in and Tom will get back to you within minutes, no charge. Want to discuss room issues, well go ahead and do it. Want to find what is best for you ? No problem. I will be buying a second sub as soon as I can sell the other subs in my room, hands down the best experience I have ever had.
> 
> But that is just my opinion of course, you are welcome to come down and listen.


Thanks for the invite; sounds like fun. Too bad we can't stuff our rooms in a double-wide and meet half way (lol)! Thanks also for the meaningful review. Citing examples and comparing with similar subs is key. As I was reading, I felt as if I were almost in your room! You put into words what I struggled with to describe the SB13u: There when you need it, silent when it should be; Shudders that make you worry about damage; Just seems to be running on idle. Excellent. I would only add (and I imagine you have the same experience given that sub's capability and pedigree) that the system became MUCH more dynamic. Sound seemed to leap from the mains and center not as an obnoxious shout-in-your-face, but instead as a startlingly lifelike wave launch. 

Whats the internet slang for Boss looking over shoulder... gotta go! Thanks again for your help, Jack!


----------



## Savjac

Thank You Lou, I guess its ok to call you Lou, or BL or Blue ??
I drive alot to my home to Indy is a hop and a jump, not an issue at all but a traveling double wide would be cool. 

I am so glad you are enjoying your sub, I cannot see going wrong with that beast. What was the first piece you listened to once you got it settled in ?? I went for the new master surround 24/96 Wish you were Here from the big box set, it was simply aural paradise. Then my Denon kinda broke and I had to drop it off in Carmel for repairs.....not sure when it will come back but i want it NOW.

Be well


----------



## Lumen

Jack, any of those'll do. Lou, BL, whatever. I've been called worse. HAH!
Can't write much since at work, but started audition with DD-encoded DVD's from long ago, then moved up to newer, then to Blu Ray movies, then music videos. Haven't auditioned music yet. Sorry if I misled, but the sub is far from settled-in. I'm working with Ed at SVS to even out a horrendous response dip from about 60 to 350Hz. You can follow my progress here if you like. We can hook up and share notes someday for sure.


----------



## willis7469

Can I call you, Lou Ray disk? Lou Ray for short? If I do, you may type with more clarity and resolution. Hmmmmm
Hahahaha..........


----------



## Savjac

Lou Ray ..LOL

I am not dialed in yet either, I had done the sub crawl some time ago with my...lesser units and found a good home for the PSA and with the limited time I had before the Denon blowed up, I think that is still a good spot. I am drooling to get it in the loop, it sits there in all of its largess wanting to play, desiring to please me and yet....its so sad.


----------



## 480dad

BlueRockinLou said:


> Too bad we can't stuff our rooms in a double-wide and meet half way (lol)!


...half way...hmmmm....I believe I know an HTS member who lives exactly halfway between you two. Perhaps you could load up some acoustic treatments, eq tools, demo music, a picture of Dana Krall, etc., sometime and come to country estates cinema and bar n' grill to discuss the finer points of sub integration and audiophile whatnot. We can even evaluate a speaker or two, or not tell the difference between some amps. We'll show those cedar creek cinema wannabes a thing or two.:whistling:

...now back to your regularly scheduled HTS programming...


----------



## willis7469

Wow 480dad. Wish I was closer. Sounds like fun.


----------



## 480dad

willis7469 said:


> Wow 480dad. Wish I was closer. Sounds like fun.


You're in the Midwest, sort of...what's a few miles between shacksters:T


----------



## Lumen

willis7469 said:


> Can I call you, Lou Ray disk? Lou Ray for short? If I do, you may type with more clarity and resolution. Hmmmmm
> Hahahaha..........





480dad said:


> ....We can even evaluate a speaker or two, *or not tell the difference between some amps*. We'll show those cedar creek cinema wannabes a thing or two.:whistling:


Now you went and made me change my nickname. _You guys are hilarious!_ I'd get together just for the laughs. HT stuff would be icing on the cake. Thanks for the daily smiles and guffaws.


----------



## Lumen

Savjac said:


> ...I think that is still a good spot. I am drooling to get it in the loop, it sits there in all of its largess wanting to play, desiring to please me...


That hits the bullseye! I thought I had a good spot until my measurements told me how much I was missing. Bass is harder to gauge by ear than upper frequencies, so I should be excused from detention just this once. I just don't know what even deeper bass from a capable sub like yours is supposed to sound like. What model was it again? Sorry I got lost--which will probably happen to me on the way to our non-amp review!


----------



## willis7469

480dad said:


> You're in the Midwest, sort of...what's a few miles between shacksters:T


 sounds good! I'll figure out my sales pitch!


----------



## willis7469

BlueRockinLou said:


> Now you went and made me change my nickname. You guys are hilarious! I'd get together just for the laughs. HT stuff would be icing on the cake. Thanks for the daily smiles and guffaws.


 awesome! I just looked. 
I agree. A gtg would be great. The farthest I've driven east in awhile was Fon du lac WI last weekend. I guess a couple hours north of chi-town on lake Winnebago. I'd guess it's half way to Indy from home. I could drive it in a couple days. A few years ago, I used to hit Indy a couple times a year for work. Good times!


----------



## Savjac

480dad said:


> ...half way...hmmmm....I believe I know an HTS member who lives exactly halfway between you two. Perhaps you could load up some acoustic treatments, eq tools, demo music, a picture of Dana Krall, etc., sometime and come to country estates cinema and bar n' grill to discuss the finer points of sub integration and audiophile whatnot. We can even evaluate a speaker or two, or not tell the difference between some amps. We'll show those cedar creek cinema wannabes a thing or two.:whistling:
> 
> ...now back to your regularly scheduled HTS programming...


I would love to visit, that would be brilliant. I have not yet met anyone interested in home theater or good stereo for that matter since I moved here. A few folks have stopped over (Family) and expressed their love of my room, but left not really interested in spending any money. Things have changed for sure over the years since I was young. How young ? Well below was my first turntable. ( I keed )
Yes I can bring some things, Dacs, an Amp, maybe if your nice, I can bring a nice hot tube amp, possibly speakers if my wife would loan me her suv. Lots of awesome test music that show what i want them to show. So just beware, I accept.


----------



## Lumen

So when and where will it be. I think our greatest challenge is organization and planning. Is Chicago about halfway? We could have our very own Axpona, only we could call it Win-Own-Duh (after the door prizes, swap mee activity, and obviously necessary nature of the event)! 

BTW, read about the soon-to-be-released V3600i. What a mohn-shtair! My home cannot take the pounding!


----------



## Savjac

I am thinking this would be wonderful, however it will depend on who wishes to attend. I am good with anywhere but we do not have any of us in Chicago to intrude on. My best friend has a place on the south side of Chicago and he could teach us all a thing or two about stunning sound, sound-staging, sub woofer placement and the proper use of an Oracle turntable. 
Otherwise we may be limited to Indy, Evansville or wherever our other member lives. 
I am open most if not all weekends and can fit in some weekdays if needed. I think it cool that we all have something to provide to each other in many ways. Not to mention how fun it would be.


----------



## 480dad

My offer still stands as I'm about a little over an hour south of Indy and right at an hour north of Evansville. We're generally out of town just about every weekend during the summer/early Fall so I could offer a sometime-this-fall soiree (sans fancy attire) if that works. Indy or Eville is fine too...

Lou, you know you want the V3600i...


----------



## Lumen

How gracious of you 480dad! Sign me up! Hope Willis checks in. What say ye, Jack?

V3600i chained to the floor, firing on all cylinders, bowing out the house walls - uh uh uh oh (Tim the Toolman Taylor noises).


----------



## Savjac

Oui, Jack says a BIG yes, it this could be so cool.
I should be getting my AVR back this Friday although I may have to run up to Carmel to grab it which would give me a a fun weekend testing the out of the PSA up in the theater room. I would love to experience the REL, I hear they are the best for music but I am sure it will sell soon.

Anyway, I will be ready when y'all are ready to be ready.


----------



## Savjac

BlueRockinLou said:


> How gracious of you 480dad! Sign me up! Hope Willis checks in. What say ye, Jack?
> 
> V3600i chained to the floor, firing on all cylinders, bowing out the house walls - uh uh uh oh (Tim the Toolman Taylor noises).



I go away for 5 days and there is a V3600 in da house ?? Whats up wif dat ??? Splain me some background.


----------



## Savjac

480dad said:


> My offer still stands as I'm about a little over an hour south of Indy and right at an hour north of Evansville. We're generally out of town just about every weekend during the summer/early Fall so I could offer a sometime-this-fall soiree (sans fancy attire) if that works. Indy or Eville is fine too...
> 
> Lou, you know you want the V3600i...


Where is the are you ?? You can PM me ifin you choose, but I cannot imagine and would love to meet you....in an audio sort of way of course.


----------



## Lumen

BlueRockinLou said:


> V3600i chained to the floor, firing on all cylinders, bowing out the house walls - uh uh uh oh (Tim the Toolman Taylor noises).





Savjac said:


> I go away for 5 days and there is a V3600 in da house ?? Whats up wif dat ??? Splain me some background.


It was a purely hypothetical out-of-my-mind experience!


----------



## Lumen

480dad said:


> Lou, you know you want the V3600i...


^^^ See post immediately above ^^^



480dad said:


> ...My offer still stands as I'm about a little over an hour south of Indy and right at an hour north of Evansville...


Reminds me of a Monty Python sketch. actually no, it was in the movie "The Jerk" with Steve Martin: the scene where he tries to win a prize at one of those carnival games...
"You can pick anything as long as it's to the left of this line and above this one, but to the right of this area under this section...." (lol)


----------



## Lumen

480dad said:


> Yessir! And, here's a big shout out to PSA...awesome people to do business with!





480dad said:


> Well, I don't have 25 triax's like Ray but this was at the front door when I came home from work!!
> 
> View attachment 88050


Yes, hat's off! Tom and crew are amazing! Expecting to pick up my S3000i this evening. Where do you live again? Can I borrow that utility dolly?


----------



## 480dad

Awesome...that's great! post some pics. (p.s. a dolly won't work...you need a small fork lift).

I live in the great american city of Bloomfield. Home of the Apple Festival, worlds longest train trestle, 2 working stoplights, and, most importantly, one gas station were you can pay at the pump. Yep, I know, we have it all...


----------



## Savjac

I found one of these at my front door, Made In USA of course. Here is some packing love....but only a taste and yes I did have to use the dolly to bring this sub of unusual size into my personal room.


----------



## Savjac

480dad said:


> Now Sampson has a buddy (don't tell me you guys don't name your subs).
> 
> View attachment 88058


I had missed this post and I am not worthy. What a cool set up, congrats Dad, might you want to adopt a couple of us ?? :wave:


----------



## Savjac

First Law of owning a PSA Sub - You MUST talk about the PSA sub (s)
Second Law of Owning a PSA Sub - When dialing in the volume at which you want the PSA Sub to play and it is sitting near the wall with the vent facing the wall, do not lean on the sub, put your hand over the vent and lean your head against the wall just as the T Rex is about to move. The wall will flex just enough to where one just about breaks their neck. Oh and I am serious, my head bounced off the wall something awful. But I loved it....:4stars:


----------



## Philm63

Savjac said:


> First Law of owning a PSA Sub - You MUST talk about the PSA sub (s)
> ...:


Ok, so diligently obeying the law as a good citizen should; I will talk about my new S3000i that showed up yesterday and is now sitting comfortably in my living room - big - silly. So far all I got is "WOW!"

Just ran Audyssey last night, and hope to start running some scans tonight or this weekend to be sure I've got it where it should be. When I first started listening to some of my typical music, WOW!!

Did I mention WOW?

I ran several scans with my two <much smaller> old subs before this thing showed up so I'd have a baseline. (see what I did there?) Can't wait to run new scans to see the difference. 

Gain is maybe a 1/4 of the way up and Audyssey is telling me the sub's too loud still - pegged my Denon 4520's setting at -12! More work to do, but oh what fun!!


----------



## Philm63

BlueRockinLou said:


> Expecting to pick up my S3000i this evening.


Hey Blue - have you fired that thing up yet? First impressions?


----------



## Lumen

480dad said:


> Awesome...that's great! post some pics. (p.s. a dolly won't work...you need a small fork lift).
> 
> I live in the great american city of Bloomfield. Home of the Apple Festival, worlds longest train trestle, 2 working stoplights, and, most importantly, one gas station were you can pay at the pump. Yep, I know, we have it all...


Okay Mr. Apples (if that's who you really are) :sneeky:, Check out Post #153 here



Philm63 said:


> Hey Blue - have you fired that thing up yet? First impressions?


I think I was floored. Floored, get it? Knocked down.... literally! :hsd:
Really sorry, but was too late and too tired to finish the install. Will report back soon here.


----------



## Lumen

Just wanted to avoid cross-posting. Didn't mean to shut down the thread!


----------



## Philm63

A dual-15 in your Green Room? Yikes! No need to manually move things around to get everything to fit better, just run the sub hot for a bit and things'll settle in on their own, I'm sure. :R

I gotta ask; when dialing it in, are you having to keep the gain really low so as not to overpower the room? I ask because setting up my S3000i, Audyssey tells me it's too loud, and the gain is maybe a quarter of the way up, maybe. When I turn it up any higher, it sounds as though it is overpowering my room (>5000 cu ft).

Maybe the 4520's sub output (in Volts) is a bit hot (Aud has it at -12 now) and maybe with Tom's latest tweak on the Ice amp the input sensitivity is that much better - I may need to put something in the chain to attenuate or I'll feel like I'm barely using that amplifier. Did I get too much sub?! (I know; impossible! :bigsmile: )

I'm still brand new to this whole "having a REAL sub" thing, and I have a lot to learn. Got lots of tweaking to do - re-run Audyssey and run some scans today to see what it looks like...

I'm hearing things in my usual music that I did not know were there. Surprised? Deep bass - love it!


----------



## Philm63

Wanted to share some graphs I did today showing my old subs vs. my new S3000i - quite a difference in the FR and in what I hear.



Integration with the front LR was also much better than with the old subs.

 

Hard to believe the difference still - "blown away" sort of sums it up...


----------



## willis7469

Good for you philm63! Welcome to the club. It's a good place to be.


----------



## Lumen

Philm63 said:


> A dual-15 in your Green Room? Yikes! No need to manually move things around to get everything to fit better, just run the sub hot for a bit and things'll settle in on their own, I'm sure. :R


Next time, I'll pay more attention to cabinet dimensions. Did you see how much room it takes up and how it blocks the whole bottom woofer on the right main? Angling it toward the door helps a little.




















Philm63 said:


> I gotta ask; when dialing it in, are you having to keep the gain really low so as not to overpower the room? I ask because setting up my S3000i, Audyssey tells me it's too loud, and the gain is maybe a quarter of the way up, maybe. When I turn it up any higher, it sounds as though it is overpowering my room (>5000 cu ft).


Sadly, I wasn't able to try it out. I can't get it to play anything, so Tom is helping me return/exchange it. He's even having it picked up at my house. Now that's customer service!


----------



## Savjac

willis7469 said:


> Good for you philm63! Welcome to the club. It's a good place to be.


Can I be in da club too ? Huh can I can I ???


----------



## Savjac

BlueRockinLou said:


> Next time, I'll pay more attention to cabinet dimensions. Did you see how much room it takes up and how it blocks the whole bottom woofer on the right main? Angling it toward the door helps a little.


Just a thought or two if I may.
1) You could get a Triax and it would fit nicely in the corner

2) How about a vertical equipment stand. That would leave you more room behind the B&W speakers near the front wall.

3) Hang it from the ceiling and watch it pinwheel about during "Those" movies. 

4) To with all of the measurements, put the sub behind your comfy chair and let the good vibrations begin. 

I love those B&W speakers, I used to have a different pair for 10 years and they were very good. Put me in your will please ??

Just sayin....


----------



## Lumen

Savjac said:


> 1) You could get a Triax and it would fit nicely in the corner


I could also get a 2nd job to pay for it!



Savjac said:


> 2) How about a vertical equipment stand. That would leave you more room behind the B&W speakers near the front wall.


Nice try. Really. But would then have logistics problems hanging the TV on the wall (there's a window behind the curtain along with "that man" - haha).



Savjac said:


> ) Hang it from the ceiling and watch it pinwheel about during "Those" movies.


You can now join Willis as part of the HTS comedy team.



Savjac said:


> 4) To with all of the measurements, put the sub behind your comfy chair and let the good vibrations begin.


Very, very tempting. That's where she seems to want to settle-in. If order the same model, will try back there.



Savjac said:


> I love those B&W speakers, I used to have a different pair for 10 years and they were very good.


Thank you. I'd choose black if I had the chance to do it over. White can be distracting during movies sometimes, but makes a visual statement.


----------



## Savjac

They do make a visual statement to be sure and I can imagine that they do stand out a bit with movies, its hard to watch them with eyes closed. 

I have a window behind my system as well and it was a bit of an issue but I doubled two 4" X 4" blocks on either side of the window frame and then used an oak stair tread from Home depot to cross the window. I think bolted my tv mounting rack onto the flat surface of the stair tread and it works great and there is no harm to the window. I feel for you as yours was my issue as well. 

I truly believe that you would be enough sub in your room to crack your spine, just sayin.
My room is 15' wide by 21' long and when in my LP the PSA doth rattle my teeth. I am still not completely sure about music yet as it remains semi untested from that perspective. I am still savin to buy your REL for a music only system if it does not go before then, I truly love the idea of powering the sub off of the normal speaker taps. As my older stuff, including the tube equipment does not have subwoofer out connections, the PSA does not work well without the purchase of their external box. I think I shall need another job as well....:crying:


----------



## Lumen

Not sure I'll ever know, but I can imagine the impact, pressurization, envelopment, and slam! Clearly too much in my 9 x 13 room, even for the short term. There are just a few placement options for _The Presence_--its new affectionate nickname--regardless of how my room's contents are rearranged. 

So as much as I'd like to tweak and demo one, a less steroid-injected model is more appropriate considering my room constraints. Jim (the Jman) was on the right track long ago in Post #5 of another thread:



theJman said:


> It's funny, but when you don't know what you're missing it's not a big deal. However, hear/feel really deep bass one time - just once - and things change forever. 28Hz will never suffice again.
> 
> Along with the subs already suggested, check out the PowerSound Audio XS15se and S1500. Both are relatively small yet can plumb the depths with ease.


----------



## Lumen

Savjac said:


> They do make a visual statement to be sure and I can imagine that they do stand out a bit with movies.


I seem to become acclimated. They fade into my peripheral vision.
It also helps if I attach their grey, magnetic grilles.


----------



## Savjac

BlueRockinLou said:


> Not sure I'll ever know, but I can imagine the impact, pressurization, envelopment, and slam! Clearly too much in my 9 x 13 room, even for the short term. There are just a few placement options for _The Presence_--its new affectionate nickname--regardless of how my room's contents are rearranged.
> 
> So as much as I'd like to tweak and demo one, a less steroid-injected model is more appropriate considering my room constraints. Jim (the Jman) was on the right track long ago in Post #5 of another thread:


I agree with Jim on this one, although I am not an expert even though I played one at Axpona this year. 

I have the XV15 and in speaking with Tom, he feels there are only minor differences in extension between the ported and vented models. I can speak to the single 15 in my room and it is pretty exciting but one must be careful as it can get too exciting right quick and it will become overwhelming and cause some anxiety. Dial it in right and it can become your friend right quick. I just experienced the joys of the Rambo soundtrack, the new one where he goes up river to Burma with some missionary types looking to help those under thumb.
In the last third there is a bomb that goes off and has such a nice undertone that is made me smile. The mortar rounds and the 50 cal machine gun also make a great impact even though I have experienced neither in real life. I guess this is the problem, what does some of this stuff sound like for real ?? I am clueless so it is all made up anyway. The last time I heard TRex growl was ohh.....never, kind of like a death star exploding in space or a nuke going off on Ben Affleck. We make it up in our minds, so get as much as you feel comfortable with knowing that it will be enough almost no matter where you turn.


----------



## willis7469

Savjac said:


> Can I be in da club too ? Huh can I can I ???


 lol! Your PSA ownership pre qualifies you! 
I was just trying to welcome philm63(and Lou) to real home theater bass. A lot of digital ink was put down about getting him to where he wanted to be. His comparison sweeps are awesome. It would have to be like not even having a sub, and boom(pun).


----------



## Philm63

Ok, I don't remember readily if it was here or *gasp* another forum where deep bass was being discussed relating to specific songs and folks were talking about their walls shaking; but I did what I know of as the "Shabda Test" yesterday at reference, and I have to say I am getting those very same goose-bumps just writing this post. Needless to say my system passed that test.

You see, the Shabda Test, as I know it, is just after the 2:12 mark during the song "Shabda" on Mike Oldfield's Music of Spheres, and all reports are that if your system is capable, the bass is supposed to come real close to causing structural damage. Not really going to crack walls, per se, but you will feel deep bass the likes of which most folks have never experienced, myself included until now. My couch was vibrating at a frequency I've not felt before adding this S3000i to the system. Hard to believe, but it brings goose-bumps and a grin from ear to ear!

Just thought I'd share this incredible moment, and a great big THANKS to all here that provided input, and guided me in the right direction to great sounding HT!


----------



## Lumen

Took delivery of a new PSA S1500. Currently auditioning their XV15, and am dully impressed. Can hardly wait for tomorrow's shootout (or is that set-up?)!


----------



## Lumen

Okay, here's an update and a question:

The S1500 impresses me with its low extension and explosive dynamics
The XV15 impresses me with its bottom end presence and its ability to disappear within the soundscape

*Has anyone upgraded their XV15 to an XV15se? Thoughts either way?*


----------



## willis7469

I've read that the se upgrade was subtle. I'm a fan of ported subs myself for exactly the reasons you described. Sealed alignments can be amazing but my space needs more of them so I don't usually give them too much thought. 
Got a tracking number yet? Lol


----------



## cez123

BlueRockinLou said:


> Okay, here's an update and a question:
> 
> The S1500 impresses me with its low extension and explosive dynamics
> The XV15 impresses me with its bottom end presence and its ability to disappear within the soundscape
> 
> *Has anyone upgraded their XV15 to an XV15se? Thoughts either way?*


Not sure what setup you have, but instead of upgrading to the SE version, I would look for another XV15. Dual setup has a huge impact in your listening experience (when done properly...).

In any case, I would hop onto the PSA chat and ask Tom. Can't go wrong with that.


----------



## Lumen

willis7469 said:


> I've read that the se upgrade was subtle. I'm a fan of ported subs myself for exactly the reasons you described. Sealed alignments can be amazing but my space needs more of them so I don't usually give them too much thought.
> Got a tracking number yet? Lol


*1 (800) ITS-MINE*



cez123 said:


> Not sure what setup you have, but instead of upgrading to the SE version, I would look for another XV15. Dual setup has a huge impact in your listening experience (when done properly...).
> 
> In any case, I would hop onto the PSA chat and ask Tom. Can't go wrong with that.


No room for two of any but the smallest sub (think REL T-Series). The three sealed subs I tried--SVS SB13u, PSA S3000i, & PSA S1500--don't integrate well in my space. The ported XV15 is a peach to integrate in my room, and its down-firing driver is perfect for transmitting LFE rumble into my concrete slab! I hardly ever use the HT for music-only listening, so a bit of bass "bloat" is an extremely acceptable trade-off for LF extension. OTOH, I do watch concert videos and sometimes miss the "slam" a sealed sub offers. Was just trying to get some of that back (however slight) by upgrading to the "se" version.


----------



## jreb14

I think the Xv15 is a great sub for movies. I think it is not as musical as other subs but it holds its own in Home Theater.


----------



## needspeed52

Lumen said:


> *1 (800) ITS-MINE*
> 
> 
> 
> No room for two of any but the smallest sub (think REL T-Series). The three sealed subs I tried--SVS SB13u, PSA S3000i, & PSA S1500--don't integrate well in my space. The ported XV15 is a peach to integrate in my room, and its down-firing driver is perfect for transmitting LFE rumble into my concrete slab! I hardly ever use the HT for music-only listening, so a bit of bass "bloat" is an extremely acceptable trade-off for LF extension. OTOH, I do watch concert videos and sometimes miss the "slam" a sealed sub offers. Was just trying to get some of that back (however slight) by upgrading to the "se" version.


I've had the older models with the non SE drivers and they were really good, I didn't upgrade the drivers to SEs I just upgraded my subs which had the new drivers. There wasn't a night and day difference but there was improvement, I don't think going from a single XV15 to another XV15SE will get you much more than you already have. The biggest improvement would be to go with duals, unfortunately you said you don't have the room. I don't know what MORE you're looking for but if you want more output I would consider an upgrade to a V1500, it's front firing but I don't think it makes a difference how the driver is oriented.

As far as music and HT duties are concerned, I think with the ported and sealed designs it's hard to distinguish the two. I'm not from the camp that sealed is better for music than ported designs, if the sub is a good design and measures well and sounds good, that's all I'm concerned with. At this point I don't think it's worth your while to go with the SE version of what you already have, IMO..

I've listened to many PSA subs in my home and they all have that signature sound, it's just a matter of how much output you need, extension and what size room you have. Just like Willis said he needs ported to fill that space, if I'm not mistaken you had a couple of Triaxs at one time, didn't pressurize your large room though. So unless you want more output I would keep what you have.

Cheers Jeffrey


----------



## Lumen

needspeed52 said:


> I've had the older models with the non SE drivers and they were really good, I didn't upgrade the drivers to SEs I just upgraded my subs which had the new drivers. There wasn't a night and day difference but there was improvement, I don't think going from a single XV15 to another XV15SE will get you much more than you already have. The biggest improvement would be to go with duals, unfortunately you said you don't have the room. I don't know what MORE you're looking for but if you want more output I would consider an upgrade to a V1500, it's front firing but I don't think it makes a difference how the driver is oriented. As far as music and HT duties are concerned, I think with the ported and sealed designs it's hard to distinguish the two. I'm not from the camp that sealed is better for music than ported designs, if the sub is a good design and measures well and sounds good, that's all I'm concerned with. At this point I don't think it's worth your while to go with the SE version of what you already have, IMO.. I've listened to many PSA subs in my home and they all have that signature sound, it's just a matter of how much output you need, extension and what size room you have. Just like Willis said he needs ported to fill that space, if I'm not mistaken you had a couple of Triaxs at one time, didn't pressurize your large room though. So unless you want more output I would keep what you have. Cheers Jeffrey


But that's not what I wanted to hear! What am I supposed to upgrade now? J/K.
Thanks for the feedback. You reminded me that Tom at PSA believes the same: the "se" upgrade is subtle.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


----------



## needspeed52

Lumen said:


> But that's not what I wanted to hear! What am I supposed to upgrade now? J/K.
> Thanks for the feedback. You reminded me that Tom at PSA believes the same: the "se" upgrade is subtle.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using HTShack


Hey Lumen, I don't know what you wanted to hear but as I said earlier the difference is subtle, to mirror Tom's words. Seriously that's not an inexpensive upgrade. I don't know if you noticed but PSA is heading in a new direction now with the ICE amps from Speakerpower (all made in the USA subs) If you want to upgrade the V1500i is the way to go or even better the new V1800i. Either one of those would get you what you want, though I don't know what you want :huh: I know all too well the feeling of wanting to upgrade but if you're happy now stay with that...:T
Cheers Jeffrey


----------



## Lumen

needspeed52 said:


> Hey Lumen, I don't know what you wanted to hear but as I said earlier the difference is subtle, to mirror Tom's words. Seriously that's not an inexpensive upgrade. I don't know if you noticed but PSA is heading in a new direction now with the ICE amps from Speakerpower (all made in the USA subs) If you want to upgrade the V1500i is the way to go or even better the new V1800i. Either one of those would get you what you want, though I don't know what you want :huh: I know all too well the feeling of wanting to upgrade but if you're happy now stay with that...:T Cheers Jeffrey


Thanks for all your tips, Jeffrey! Think I will stick with the stock V15.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all,

Real pictures of the V1800 are up on facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/powersounda...type=3&theater

https://www.facebook.com/powersounda...type=3&theater

Please remember the pre-order won't last much longer. If anyone is interested in saving $250---don't wait too long. Also, all pre-orders should be fulfilled in early August(hopefully first week of August).

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/v1800

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## needspeed52

Lumen said:


> Thanks for all your tips, Jeffrey! Think I will stick with the stock V15.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using HTShack


I think you've made the right decision, you would have to spend a lot more to get better, enjoy.:T

Cheers Jeffrey


----------



## Basshead81

Have not been on here lately but I figured I would offer my 2 cents on the XV15 vs SE. I went from 3 XV15's to the the SE variants via the upgrade path. IMO they both are great but the SE sounds a bit better overall at the cost of a little extension. I notice the difference more so with music, but it is much harder to distinguish the two with movies. The SE appears to handle the upper bass region a little better and has a pretty sizeable advantage in output around 20hz(3-5db). I gained over 5db playing the pulse server scene. Is it worth the cost, well that is up to you but I felt it was worth it.


----------



## Tom V.

Hi all, quick update. We have two XS30se and two S3000i available as b-stock today. We need the room as we're filling up with a TON of inventory for the typical 4th quarter rush. Pop into chat and we'll give you rock bottom pricing..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Tom V.

Power Sound Audio T-18 update.

The T-18 will now include an updated amplifier with much more user control and setup flexibility. The amplifier still offers the same power for the T-18---4000 watts for 110-120v and 6000 watts for 220-240v applications so there won't be any difference in the maximum output capabilities. (see amplifier silk screen/controls here https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/01...01259786352192 )

We will have the new amplifiers in stock in approximately 30 days. Because of this delay in shipping we're offering the following discounts on any new T-18 orders. 

A single T-18 is now $2749, down from the regular price of $2999. DUAL T-18s are now $5199, down from the regular pricing of $5699. This pricing will only last for a short time so please don't hesitate if you are interested in experiencing one of the most powerful home audio subwoofers available. 

We will also be offering an upgrade program for any existing Triax and T-18 owners. Give us a few days to get these details worked out and I'll update you as soon as possible. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


----------



## Saturn94

Any word yet on the Triax upgrade program?


----------



## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> Any word yet on the Triax upgrade program?


Hey Buddy what's up, I believe Tom and Jim are working out the details as we speak, jump into chat and get it from the horse's mouth..........:T


----------



## Saturn94

needspeed52 said:


> Hey Buddy what's up, I believe Tom and Jim are working out the details as we speak, jump into chat and get it from the horse's mouth..........:T



I'm mainly just curious. If I understand correctly it will just add some convenience features, which I don't really need.


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## needspeed52

Saturn94 said:


> I'm mainly just curious. If I understand correctly it will just add some convenience features, which I don't really need.


You are correct, auto on, delay and room contour features, I see no reason to change what you have now, the Triax is a classic


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## Tom V.

Quick update,

Hi all,
We're rearranging the office system again and putting in a couple of new test mules. We have one V3600i and one S3600i that have been in the office system for a few weeks now heading to the outlet center. Both look and perform like new. $1499(!) on the S3600i and $1749 on the V3600i.
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/s3600i
http://www.powersoundaudio.com/products/v3600i
Also, there's three MTM210s in the outlet center now too. So you can order an exceptional 3.1 package with the S3600i for a total of $3349. Savings of $750!.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Tom V.

Couple updates,

The "under $1000" field just got a couple of new players...

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/subwoofers/products/15v

http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/subwoofers/products/15s

Re-intro of the XV15se and XS15se. This time we're using the new ICE modules and stand offs(instead of "feet") that are extensions of the cabinet itself. Performance and aesthetics both improved. 

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio


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## Saturn94

Tom V. said:


> Couple updates,
> 
> The "under $1000" field just got a couple of new players...
> 
> http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/subwoofers/products/15v
> 
> http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/subwoofers/products/15s
> 
> Re-intro of the XV15se and XS15se. This time we're using the new ICE modules and stand offs(instead of "feet") that are extensions of the cabinet itself. Performance and aesthetics both improved.
> 
> Tom V.
> Power Sound Audio


Are these replacing the V1500 and S1500?


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## B- one

Okay where's the action around here!?! I just got confirmation on my V-3600I! Tom thinks I should have it Fri/Sat. They were going to put it in the outlet center due to the finish in the port isn't perfect so I saved $100 on that now they just need to put it together test and send!:hsd:


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## B- one

V-3600 in the house! It wasn't as bad moving it as I feared.


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## speakerman49

B- one said:


> V-3600 in the house! It wasn't as bad moving it as I feared.


WoW! Very nice! Just recently received my B-stock S1500 and absolutely love it! Also got an anti-mode 8033 S II. Looking forward to learning more about PSA and Tom V.

Cheers,

Phil


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## jreb14

That looks like a powerful sub!!


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## B- one

speakerman49 said:


> WoW! Very nice! Just recently received my B-stock S1500 and absolutely love it! Also got an anti-mode 8033 S II. Looking forward to learning more about PSA and Tom V. Cheers, Phil


Congrats on the new toy!


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## speakerman49

B- one said:


> Congrats on the new toy!


Thanks a bunch. I sure am.....LOL!!! I know you are as well.

Cheers,

Phil


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