# Sticky  SDX15 Mk II



## Creative Sound

Hi,

The design is finally complete and the sample will be built as soon as it can be arranged with the factory. 

While we have full target specifications and parameters we will not share these until the sample is Klippel tested. There are, however, a couple of points I will release.

1. We are going to a 4" voice coil.

2. We are shooting for 34+ mm Xmax.

3. We are aiming for 1500 watts power handling.

4. The "at times difficult to work with trim ring" has been abandoned and will be replaced by a functional as well as cosmetically distinctive rubber gasket.

5. Both mounting bolts and threaded inserts will be included with each driver.

6. This will be a heavier driver and so shipping costs will go up a bit.


Thanks to all of you for your patience and continued support.

Bob







​ 

​


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## Moonfly

You wanna send an avid (and cheeky) DIY'er out a review model :whistling:. I have 2 18" pr's sat here, so I could test it in all 3 common types of cabs and post a detailed review. Being a big fan of the 15" AE drivers, I could also compare these to what are my current favourite driver. From what you have posted, this well looks like it could now be superior to that driver, which kinda has me excited :clap:

What do ya say :R


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## Mike P.

> 34+ mm Xmax


I take it that means 34 mm or higher? I'll be waiting for for the production T/S parameters to be released so we can see what this sub will do!


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## GranteedEV

Sounds like you're shooting to turn a beast into... whatever's beastier...


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## Moonfly

Mike P. said:


> I take it that means 34 mm or higher? I'll be waiting for for the production T/S parameters to be released so we can see what this sub will do!





GranteedEV said:


> Sounds like you're shooting to turn a beast into... whatever's beastier...


The original driver modelled very close to my favourite driver, so hopefully this will now better that one and offer more performance. I'll bet the main area of improvement will be how deep it can go. I too am looking forward to modelling this driver.


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## tundraSQ

What is the impedance? And what is the box recommendation? I have an 11cuft ported box just waiting for this bad boy.


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## Mike P.

As Bob pointed out in the first post, a sample will need to be Klippel tested before we'll find out any more information.


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## Creative Sound

tundraSQ said:


> What is the impedance? And what is the box recommendation? I have an 11cuft ported box just waiting for this bad boy.


The driver will have dual 2 ohm voice coils.

Bob


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## håkan

Is xbl2 system still on or not .


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## Mike P.

The new driver is XBL2.


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## Ricci

How about the inductance? Is there still a demodulating circuit? 

Any chance that you will publish the klippel results?raying:

Tentative pricing?


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## Creative Sound

Ricci said:


> How about the inductance? Is there still a demodulating circuit?
> 
> Any chance that you will publish the klippel results?raying:
> 
> Tentative pricing?


Hi,

There is a shorting ring; what would you consider a good inductance figure?

When the driver is reviewed in _Voice Coil_ there will be a Klippel report.

Until we have full specs I think it's a little premature to quote pricing. What would consider fair?

Bob


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## Ricci

Hi Bob. 

Well...I don't know...all of that sort of depends on the final parameters and Klippel report in my view.  The $250-$350 range is hotly contested so you'd probably want to land in the midst of that if it makes financial sense.

I am a Voice Coil subscriber, so I should see the report if it is one of the regular test reviews.

Inductance linearity over range of stroke is what I'm interested with more than a single data point, which is of much less value and information. :T


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## gperkins_1973

That sounds like an awesome driver. Can't wait to see this one.
34mm excursion for a 15" driver is alot and massive power handling.

cheers

Graham


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## favelle

34mm Xmax? GEEZUZ.


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## AudioPhill

lol, I love Xmax figures like that, I'm in for one asap!


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## Binary

i may have heard rumours about what this thing can do, and i am seriously considering swapping out my SDX15 for a mkII. LOL. or i might just have to build a second one....


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## John_Williams

I built a LLT sonosub with the SDX15. Will I be able to swap in this driver or is the mounting completely different?


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## Moonfly

John_Williams said:


> I built a LLT sonosub with the SDX15. Will I be able to swap in this driver or is the mounting completely different?


This is pure speculation on my part, but I reckon a straight swap would be entirely possible. However, I would speculate the new driver would probably need a slightly different cab for optimal performance, and although it will probably work fine in your existing cabinet, the differences or performance increases would probably be too insignificant for it to make sense from an economic POV.

Thats my first thought on it anyway.


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## tecknurd

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> There is a shorting ring; what would you consider a good inductance figure?
> 
> When the driver is reviewed in _Voice Coil_ there will be a Klippel report.
> 
> Until we have full specs I think it's a little premature to quote pricing. What would consider fair?
> 
> Bob


It will be nice to have zero inductance, but that can not happen yet.

A fair price is about the cost of a Exodus Tempest X2 or a few US dollars than that.

One thing that will be nice is the efficiency be at least 88 dB. Sure you stated that the SDX15 Mark II can handle 2000 watts, but that does not mean anything to me. A lot of high Xmax woofers from your competitors have low efficiency. Your TRIO12, TRIO8, and SDX10 have an efficiency of 85 dB which is low efficiency. I am willing to spend the money on efficiency compared to spending the money on a marketing tactic that bases on wattage handling.

Another thing that will be nice is a dual 4 ohm voice coil version to provide more choices for hook up. A dual 2 ohm voice coil version is OK, but has the fewest choices for hook up. A dual 4 ohm version can be hooked up in series to provide an 8 ohm to benefit to hooking up two for an amplifier that is 4 ohm stable or up to four for a amplifier that is 2 ohm stable.


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## Binary

tecknurd said:


> It will be nice to have zero inductance, but that can not happen yet.
> 
> A fair price is about the cost of a Exodus Tempest X2 or a few US dollars than that.
> 
> One thing that will be nice is the efficiency be at least 88 dB. Sure you stated that the SDX15 Mark II can handle 2000 watts, but that does not mean anything to me. A lot of high Xmax woofers from your competitors have low efficiency. Your TRIO12, TRIO8, and SDX10 have an efficiency of 85 dB which is low efficiency. I am willing to spend the money on efficiency compared to spending the money on a marketing tactic that bases on wattage handling.
> 
> Another thing that will be nice is a dual 4 ohm voice coil version to provide more choices for hook up. A dual 2 ohm voice coil version is OK, but has the fewest choices for hook up. A dual 4 ohm version can be hooked up in series to provide an 8 ohm to benefit to hooking up two for an amplifier that is 4 ohm stable or up to four for a amplifier that is 2 ohm stable.



First off, i'd like to say that the power handling isn't a marketing ploy, its moving up one of the very few limitations of the old driver. Secondly i'd like to say that the SDX 15 Mk II is aimed at home theater, which is why you see the voice coil configs that you do. And Last, I'm curious as to if you've seen anything with similar xmax in the 15" category that has a sensitivity higher than the SDX 15.

For what its worth, I think if Bob can keep that same amount of Sensitivity with the higher xmax, we will all be happy.


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## Creative Sound

tecknurd said:


> It will be nice to have zero inductance, but that can not happen yet.
> 
> A fair price is about the cost of a Exodus Tempest X2 or a few US dollars than that.
> 
> One thing that will be nice is the efficiency be at least 88 dB. Sure you stated that the SDX15 Mark II can handle 2000 watts, but that does not mean anything to me. A lot of high Xmax woofers from your competitors have low efficiency. Your TRIO12, TRIO8, and SDX10 have an efficiency of 85 dB which is low efficiency. I am willing to spend the money on efficiency compared to spending the money on a marketing tactic that bases on wattage handling.
> 
> Another thing that will be nice is a dual 4 ohm voice coil version to provide more choices for hook up. A dual 2 ohm voice coil version is OK, but has the fewest choices for hook up. A dual 4 ohm version can be hooked up in series to provide an 8 ohm to benefit to hooking up two for an amplifier that is 4 ohm stable or up to four for a amplifier that is 2 ohm stable.


Hi,

I don't think I stated 2000 watts but we're shooting for at least 1500. The driver will sell for more than the Tempest X2. You have to make decisions/tradeoffs about excursion and efficiency and unfortunately we can't have everything (something about the laws of physics). Amplifier power is relatively cheap so high efficiency was not a priority. A future production run might have more voice coil options but this is where we are right now.

Thanks for the input.

Bob


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## gperkins_1973

This is going to be some serious driver. How will this compare to say the Q15, AE15 etc..

Is this likely to fair better with ported or sealed alignments and is there going to be any options for tweaking for different applications. Just a thought.

cheers

Graham


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## Moonfly

Well, it should offer more performance than the AE and with working within its limits more should give a very clean sound. Its all dependant on the test results though. The Q drivers are pretty good too, but a comparison would really be needed to answer that question. Personally I know the Fi's are a little better made than the AE's, and seem a bit of a stronger driver, so it will be interesting to see ow this driver stacks up.


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## gperkins_1973

Dan,

Thats one of the many reasons why I chose FI's and am very interested to see the comparison between the Q15's and the new SDX driver. The Q15 has a more excursion capabilities than the AE15's and can handle alot more power. The AE15 drivers are great drivers but not really in the same league as the FI's but then they do cost more. Its a balance game.

cheers

Graham


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## Mike P.

It's all about performance/price, once we get the parameters for the new SDX15 MKII we can see how it compares to the others. With a proposed higher Xmax and power handling I'm curious how it will compare to a TC Sounds LMS-R 15.


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## gperkins_1973

Good call Mike! Defo on that one.


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## Binary

It definitely seems like this will be a driver in the same category of the LMS-R


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## sub_crazy

The comparison to the LMS-R is close except that it uses a 4" VC and higher x-max. If it can go as low as the LMS-R while providing better mid-bass in the same price range then it's a definite buy.


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## spanish68

On paper, this sounds like an excellent sub, it should be quite a bit better than the older model, specially in the low end. I use to own the old version and while it was a good sub for the price, I preferred the AE AV15X driver that I bought and sold the CCS SDX driver. The AV15X had better mid-bass and was very close in the low bass to the old SDX driver.

If this driver comes in in the $300-$350 price range and performs as good or better in the mid-bass than the old driver, it should sell well. With the extra xmax and bigger motor, it should beat the old model quite easily in the low end, specially with a big amp of 1,500+ watts. The LMS-R looks like it will have stiff competition with this sub, specially in the low bass. Let's see how the specs/tests come out.


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## Ricci

Bob,

Any estimates on a date of availability or pricing yet? are we looking at quite a few months off still or eminent arrival?


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## belmontjoe

I've been playing around in winisd with passive radiators and was wondering if CSS would also be releasing a matching PR in a preferable 18" setup or a 15" setup. If CSS does not have one planned, what are some thoughts from those builders with more experience with PR such as from AE or TC Sounds VMPs.


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## AudioPhill

In line with cash ready to grab one of these.. Man I cant wait!


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## Mike P.

It will be interesting to see how the MK II models once the parameters are made available.


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## Veltinorian

Hi Bob !
Is there a european retailer we clould here in eu buy those fat boys :daydream:, sdx10 incl.?


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## Moonfly

Indeed there is, which part of Europe are you in. I believe there is somewhere in Norway and Sweden you can buy CSS kit from.


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## håkan

Veltinorian said:


> Hi Bob !
> Is there a european retailer we clould here in eu buy those fat boys :daydream:, sdx10 incl.?


http://byggdinbas.jetshopfree.se/startsidan-i-44.aspx
The page is in Swedish but mail him in English
[email protected]


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## Creative Sound

Veltinorian said:


> Hi Bob !
> Is there a european retailer we clould here in eu buy those fat boys :daydream:, sdx10 incl.?


Hi,

All the dealers are listed on the right hand side of the CSS homepage. While not everyone carries everything it's a good place to start. There are some new possibilities in England and Germany on the horizon.

I'm hoping for an update from the factories this week on the SDX15 Mk II and a couple of other projects. 

Bob


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## gperkins_1973

England, that's wicked news! Be interesting to see how much they will cost.

Any more news on specs! Sorry I've not been able to get on Home Theater Shack for a couple of weeks.

cheers

Graham


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## Rightbrained

I think there is a future for a couple of these in my new house.


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## Steeve-O

Anyone know when these will be available and if they can be powered with 500 watt or they will really need a good 1200-1500 watt to really get alive ?


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## Moonfly

The specs have yet to be released, but they are expected very soon :T I would have thought 500 watts would be ok with this driver, but that amount of power would be best put to use in a ported design.


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## Exocer

Anxiously await the arrival of this driver.
The MK I was/is awesome in my 4ft^3 sealed box.

Planning to build a DIY LT circuit for it in the near future...but this MK II seems really promising.


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## belmontjoe

Any update on a timeline?


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## Creative Sound

belmontjoe said:


> Any update on a timeline?


Hi,

The first 2 prototypes built weren't correct so we're waiting for the next one. Chinese new year will delay things a little but we should have a better idea about mid February.

Bob


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## gperkins_1973

Bob,

Any ideas on specs yet?

cheers

Graham


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## Steeve-O

I'm wondering if it will be a better band for the buck than the Mach 5 audio IXL 18.2.2

It will certainly has an overall better SQ and built quality.


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## Binary

i can almost guarantee it won't come close to the mid $200 range, it will be closer to the mid $300 because this driver will be competing with the LMS series TC sounds drivers.


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## håkan

Now we have past mid February any uppdate.


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## Moonfly

I happen to know there was a test of the driver at the end of January that would have been the final driver design had it passed the test. I gather Bob at CSS wasnt happy with the results and wants to ensure the driver is the best it can be, so it will be a little longer yet. Exactly when I cant say for certain, but fingers crossed it wont be too long and Bob can hopefully give us some info on this.


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## RodK

So, is this new driver just a myth? I am going to be it the market for one soon, don't know how long I can wait.


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## sub_crazy

Remember, good things come to those who wait.........ahhhhhh who am I kidding, I am the most impatient person I know, I want one now:hissyfit:


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## favelle

RodK said:


> So, is this new driver just a myth? I am going to be it the market for one soon, don't know how long I can wait.


Same here......I am hoping....waiting.....and hoping some more...!


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## Creative Sound

Hi,

While I could give details for some of the delay it wouldn't speed things up and I'm as frustrated and impatient as all of you. Believe me when I say that when there is accurate news I will post it.

There will be a new horn design for the TRIO12 shortly and while I haven't heard it I have it on credible authority that it is impressive. Rumor has it that someone well known on this forum wants to build a pair!!

Bob


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## GranteedEV

while we're on the topic, is there any intended upper limit to the response, or will it just be inductance determined? I was curious if this could be used in a proper 3 way.


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## RodK

I just got a great deal on a used sdx15, so I guess I don't have to wait anymore. YAY!!


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## Zac911

Is there a general idea of release? This summer? I would sure like to get my hands on one.


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## Jason Schultz

Spare a thought for us poor guys in Oz who have to pay more to import these because there is nobody here who sells them. I can get hold of a tempest x-2 but they need a larger enclosure for a ported design ,so sdx-15 was/ still is attractive.


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## hawkson

Any updates on the driver?


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## Mika75

Jason Schultz said:


> Spare a thought for us poor guys in Oz who have to pay more to import these because there is nobody here who sells them. I can get hold of a tempest x-2 but they need a larger enclosure for a ported design ,so sdx-15 was/ still is attractive.


CSS SDX15 15" Subwoofer - darcheraudio.com.au

Darcher Audio
Launceston, Tasmania
Australia


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## Jason Schultz

Yeah i know! Thanks Mika 75 I discovered this right after I posted that. might wait for new mode depends on price.


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## Larry McConville

Back to the top...


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## belmontjoe

any updated timeline? Are we talking late Q2 or into Q3 or Q4?


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## Creative Sound

Hi,

Sometimes there is no simple explanation as to why a project seems to grind along so I won't try. On the 24th I will make a decision on whether the latest sample built should be brought in for testing and evaluation. Part of the problem is finding factories that will do smaller runs (and stay in business) as the larger companys are swamped and can demand large quantities.

Bob

PS There will be some other product announcements shortly as well as some special summer pricing.


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## Larry McConville

Hi Bob,

Merely an enthusiastic bump.

Larry


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## Creative Sound

Hi,

Pleased to announce that the last sample built is in the air and will be well tested when it arrives.

Pictures, etc. to follow.

Bob

Edit: Delivery is scheduled for late this afternoon!!


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## Mike P.

That is good news!


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## Jstslamd

I'm excited !!


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## Moonfly

Awesome news, its been long awaited.


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## sub_crazy

More great subwoofers = good times:T

Can't wait to get more details.


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## Mike P.

Here's a pic of the new SDX-15 MK II prototype.


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## sub_crazy

Mike P. said:


> Here's a pic of the new SDX-15 MK II prototype.
> 
> View attachment 31758


Ooooooohhhhhhhhh, me like:clap:


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## favelle

Oh wow! What's the weight on this bad boy?


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## Mike P.

It will be around 55 pounds.


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## favelle

Mike P. said:


> It will be around 55 pounds.


Oh my......for a 15" driver? That's beastly!


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## Theresa

I want one too. Any idea how expensive it will be? I've got two XBL2 subs already, one 15" and one 12". Having two 15" would be better yet.


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## Jstslamd

Any talk about msrp yet ?


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## Veltinorian

I am curious what will be Fs like, it would be perfect if that driver surpasses or comes in a par with the 15" Dayton High Fidelity RSS390HF (Fs 18Hz) in terms of low extension in acceptable Vas


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## Binary

I have a feeling that motor is a lot more optimised than the last one too. 55lbs is a weight increase compared to the old 51lbs. and i think 4lbs of motor, in a "smaller" package says something.

This is one driver i can't wait to see in action. I'm seriously thinking about swapping my older SDX15 out for this newer one if the improvements are as much as i've heard.

Edit: I Definitely like the new shiny motor vs the old black.


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## Larry McConville

Is the Mk I cone and surround being carried forward to the new Mk II driver?


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## Creative Sound

Larry McConville said:


> Is the Mk I cone and surround being carried forward to the new Mk II driver?


The only thing for sure that is the same is the basket, the cone is different but I think the surround is the same type of NBR (the very first SDX15 had a foam surround but that was soon upgraded). UPS missed the delivery today for some reason so when I have it here I will post more information and perhaps some more pictures.

Bob


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## Binary

Its looking good Bob, Now for some numbers!


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## Larry McConville

Thanks Bob,

Really looking forward to modeling this guy.

Larry


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## mwmkravchenko

It lives!

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/...MARKII/NewSDX15closeupofmotorandterminals.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp160/mwmkravchenko/SDX15 MARKII/NewSDX15facedown.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp160/mwmkravchenko/SDX15 MARKII/NewSDX15upright.jpg

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp160/mwmkravchenko/SDX15 MARKII/SDX15andTrio12contrast.jpg

So the prototype is on Canadian soil. 

So now, off to testing and verification.

A real beast.

Mark


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## Veltinorian

I have a prediction, if the spider is the same the Cms is going to drop in comparison to the older drive because the curves are less (from 75 to 100mm VCD) meaning Mms to be increased in order to achieve the same Fs :hsd:


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## GranteedEV

Arrgghh

I just know this will go all too well filling in my room bass with my Maelstrom.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to buy one or two :blink:


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## favelle

Is that a Trio12 next to it in the last pic?


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## mwmkravchenko

Yes the size comparison is there for a giggle or two.


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## Moonfly

Here's looking forward to the TSP's.


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## Jstslamd

How long does the testing period take ?


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## favelle

mwmkravchenko said:


> Yes the size comparison is there for a giggle or two.


I have a Trio....you laughing at my sub!!??? :foottap: ha ha J/K.


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## ufokillerz

definitely a sub i'm looking forward to


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## mikeett

Jstslamd said:


> How long does the testing period take ?


I'd prefer a well tested driver, measured after testing as well.
Also it would be preferable to have several drivers tested (can be done in parallell of course), 
drivers from different batches tested. etc. etc. 
So you tell me how long you'd expect a testing period would be? addle:

I'm expecting a well tested driver over something with nice specs rushed to market :bigsmile:


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## BPoletti

Let's wait until the driver is broken in sufficiently. Better to see how it will behave in the long run. A good break-in can also help identify areas of concern that might shorten driver life. We can be patient.


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## Jstslamd

For the record it was just a case of pure curiosity. I'll be
Patient.


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## mwmkravchenko

Good things come to those patient enough to wait.

And yes Bob will be making sure this driver is going to be good.

It is a prototype. If it meets spec we are golden. If it needs tweeking it gets tweeked.

Simple.


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## BPoletti

Bob,

How is the break-in going? Any updates, specs or other information to share yet?


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## Creative Sound

BPoletti said:


> Bob,
> 
> How is the break-in going? Any updates, specs or other information to share yet?


We have run tests both here and at another location. The third location now has the driver and then it will go to a 4th. Assuming all goes well we will make a decision the week of the 25th. 

Bob


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## Danielson99

<------------nervously holding his breath :gulp:


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## BPoletti

Creative Sound said:


> We have run tests both here and at another location. The third location now has the driver and then it will go to a 4th. Assuming all goes well we will make a decision the week of the 25th.
> 
> Bob



Any news, yet?


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## Creative Sound

BPoletti said:


> Any news, yet?


Hi,

So far things appear to be going well in the testing and I'm waiting for a "car audio" test to be completed. Assuming all go well we will publish preliminary parameters, etc. 

Bob


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## Theresa

Can one sign up in advance of release? If so I would like to get back on the list.


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## Creative Sound

Theresa said:


> Can one sign up in advance of release? If so I would like to get back on the list.


There will be a pre-order price etc. as soon as is reasonable. Steven from Stereo Clarity will post some of his experiences with the prototype shortly.

Bob


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## StereoClarity

Creative Sound said:


> There will be a pre-order price etc. as soon as is reasonable. Steven from Stereo Clarity will post some of his experiences with the prototype shortly.
> 
> Bob


I sure will 

I ran some "tests" at my apartment at the extreme misfortune of my neighbors. :hsd:

What are we dealing with here? I put the SDX15 MKII prototype in a 7.5cube net box tuned to 19hz with 50sq in of port area. The box was something quick I knocked out but it's sufficient for testing...and that's an understatement. If it were going to be a box I was building to keep around it would be much better braced but it's already braced quite well inside. That being said, I can't imagine how much more savage it would be if it were in a seriously braced box. The amp in use is the Dayton SA1000 which yields 1000RMS to this sub with it's coils wired in series. Plenty...or so I thought:gulp:

The sub is a performer; nothing else to say really. I tested it with what I would consider to be the most grueling movie sequences around. U-571, Iron Man, Batman Begins, The Dark Night, Inception. Not once did I hear the sub bottom out. The Dayton was at it's maximum (1000RMS, not maximum gain) and I even saw the clip light flicker a few times...and the sub TOOK IT! It's quite efficient but it will soak up the power and ask for more! :devil:

The biggest thing I noticed about this sub is it's "presence" with LFE content. The depth charges scene in U-571 was unreal. The immersion into the scene was undeniable. We tested the sub in a corner and also directly behind the couch. We liked it behind the couch best. But even when it was only 1ft behind us it was hard to localize when tuned right. The LFE content seemed to be coming from the walls themselves.

I suppose it's also important that I tell you what kind of space my room is; that's quite important. My room is actually very very large. The main living area is 18.5x16ft with 9ft ceilings. That's not including the kitchen which is open to the room. There is also a hall that is included in the airspace as well. I'd say a conservative guess would be about 4,500 cubic feet. That being said, the sub did an impressive job at loading the room and never once lost it's composure.

As Bob said, I'm hoping to test the sub in my a vehicle later this week. More on that as it happens.


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## StereoClarity

Here are two pictures of the system.


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## kniffarn_

to bad i have a very small room! this thing seems to rock!


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## Moonfly

Do we have a set of TSP's for this driver yet?


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## Danielson99

kniffarn_ said:


> to bad i have a very small room! this thing seems to rock!


Even more reason to buy it :clap:


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## mwmkravchenko

Pour some water on the fire guys.

To be completely sure a prototype is good to go takes a while. There is a reason why they are called prototypes. All parameters have to be verified.

A good design gets verified carefully. Rushing into things only makes for greater problems later.

It is getting closer everyday.

When Bob pulls the trigger it will be because there is good reason.

Mark


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## Moonfly

Ive been following this since the threads birth. I think this driver deserves the fire its creating. Sure we have to wait a little longer, but its no less exciting, especially with nice little teasers being drip fed :drool:

I mention TSP's, because they are typically a prerequisite to designing the cabinet, although the cab obviously needs to be used to clarify final parameters as well etc.


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## Binary

TSPs are only semi-important to me as they help model the box and give an idea how they will do, but you ALWAYS needs to measure your drivers. Anyone in this hobby without access to, or without owning a WT3 woofer tester should definitely consider it. The builds you do will be that much more accurate.

I think the figure we all should be keeping an eye out for is Xmax, when it comes time to reveal of course.


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## deathinc

Any news?


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## StereoClarity

Sorry guys. I moved some stuff around in my photobucket account and those links to the pictures were broken. I just fixed them so they should be good to go now.

My bad.


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## BPoletti

Any new developments with the driver?


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## Creative Sound

Hi,

We are waiting for one more testing round in the next week as well as details from the factory on whether they can do a trim ring like we had on the first version or whether we just do a simple rubber gasket.

The final decision meeting is on the 26th.

Bob


----------



## Henkjan

Creative Sound said:


> The final decision meeting is on the 26th.


:wave: the world is waiting :bigsmile:


----------



## BPoletti

Henkjan said:


> :wave: the world is waiting :bigsmile:


It might have been almost 1100 when you posted that in the Netherlands, but that makes it before 0100 in British Columbia. As I post this, it's not even 0600 there. Why not just wait until Bob is ready to announce his decision?


----------



## ironglen

BPoletti said:


> It might have been almost 1100 when you posted that in the Netherlands, but that makes it before 0100 in British Columbia. As I post this, it's not even 0600 there. Why not just wait until Bob is ready to announce his decision?


Probably because we have an impatient society...and a shortage of high performance, crazy xmax 15" sub drivers on the market from reputable manufacturers.


----------



## deathinc

ITS THE FINAL COUNTDOOOWN!!!!!! :boxer:


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

We had a very long meeting today and have decided that one more test is needed. This should happen during the first week of September as I need to get the driver back and then off to Seattle.

Thanks for your interest and patience.


Bob


----------



## Cyberfloatie

Creative Sound said:


> Thanks for your interest and patience.


I'm glad you guys are sticking to your principles and putting out the best product you can. Though not a customer yet, watching the progression of this thread has ensured that when the budget can handle it, I will become one.


----------



## deathinc

I cant wait! :crying: but I know the wait will be well worth it.


----------



## deathinc

Any news?


----------



## phodee6

I am still here and looking forward to seeing the new sub. i hope the magnet and length will be the same size as the first mkI


----------



## deathinc

Its been more than a week now. What happend?:crying:


----------



## Mercury3

Hey everyone new here.

I've been waiting for a good 15 inch woofer for a while now. Need four of um for a project.

Can anyone tell me how long this is going to be yet. I'd like to give these woofers a try but if the LMS 15 comes in first I may have to jump on it. Parts express told me late sept but I heard else mid - October

Thanks, Mark


----------



## nottaway

How about driver depth?


----------



## deathinc

So what happen? its the 3rd week of the month and we have not heard anything :dontknow: .


----------



## Owen Bartley

I'm good to just hang around until Bob has a version he's happy with. My SDX10 impressed me enough that I have high expectations for the 15, and I'm personally glad to see he's not rushing it to market. That might be easy for me to say right now though, since I don't have my money burning a hole in my pocket and a few sheets of MDF waiting to be cut. Hang in there, guys, I'm sure it will be worth the wait!


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

Just picked up the sample and will have more to report shortly.

Bob


----------



## vann_d

Ya! We need another 15 on the market. I might be starting my dedicated room soon.


----------



## Jstslamd

How long till we hear some feedback on this driver ?


----------



## Creative Sound

Jstslamd said:


> How long till we hear some feedback on this driver ?


There will be an update on Friday.

Bob


----------



## RodK

oooooohhhhhhh!!!! You can cut the tension with a knife. :bigsmile:


----------



## BPoletti

Too bad I'll be out of town until next week.


----------



## Jstslamd

<~~ on my toes!!


----------



## RodK

IT'S FRIDAY!!!!!!!

Bob, where are you??


----------



## Jstslamd

He meant Friday at 11:59pm


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

We have decided that the current surround does not fully support the targeted excursion. Therefore a new recone kit with a wider surround is on order. When it arrives it will be attached and tested. At present there is no time frame for this but we're hoping that the new parts will be here in 3 weeks.

Bob


----------



## Moonfly

It must be a nightmare developing a new driver. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you Bob.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

The devil is in the details. 

Remember that Bob is getting it right so anyone that purchases can be sure that he gets what he paid for.

This driver will perform as listed. 

There are quite a few that do not in anyway shape or form meet their published specs. That includes TC Sounds products. I have recently worked with an OEM that did some very careful measurement of the available high excursion drivers and few meet what they claim to do.

So wait and see what is in store for this brand. Good things are a coming.

Mark


----------



## sub_junkie

By any chance is the predicted release date would be before Christmas ? I'm really looking at a sub for my car and I've got my eyes set on this one. Haha. Good luck to you Bob !

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## Creative Sound

sub_junkie said:


> By any chance is the predicted release date would be before Christmas ? I'm really looking at a sub for my car and I've got my eyes set on this one. Haha. Good luck to you Bob !
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


Hi,

Not likely; I'm waiting on an update on the recone kit.

Bob


----------



## sub_junkie

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not likely; I'm waiting on an update on the recone kit.
> 
> Bob


Okay. Thanks for the reply so soon ! Best of luck, I can't wait to see & hear the finished product. I'm sure it will be amazing.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## AudioPhill

Still drooling over this thing, pre-order option?


----------



## Binary

So... Can i get the one off prototype? It'd make a beast of a computer system subwoofer...


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Sure a cool $6500 plus shipping will get you one.

Or you could wait for a thoroughly worked out properly functioning first run SDX15 Mark II.

It might cost a little less!

Mark


----------



## Binary

You're a hater Mark.


----------



## BillCinLR

What effect will China's 1400% increase in rare earth materials used in the manufacture of these speakers have on the final price?

Bill C


----------



## Mike P.

That would affect prices of any driver that uses a neodymium magnet which the SDX-15 MK II does not have.
_
_


----------



## ironglen

BillCinLR said:


> What effect will China's 1400% increase in rare earth materials used in the manufacture of these speakers have on the final price?
> 
> Bill C


I don't think it will have much effect Bill as it's not a neodymium motor.


----------



## BillCinLR

It's hard not to notice the complete lack of comparable high performance Chinese produced drivers in the DIY market. Is it just a coincidence or something else going on?

Bill C


----------



## Jstslamd

In my eyes the Chinese are mostly about pumping out quantity no quality so maybe they just don't see it worth putting out product that cost to much money to make and not enough money in return. In making my transition to home audio from car audio I notice a big difference in build quality the home audio product being the better side of that story.


----------



## BillCinLR

Where do you think the SDX15 is built?

Bill C


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I'm going to wade in on this one and hopefully set some things straight. 

Almost all drivers have Chinese made parts. Even the ones that say made in America. Your Eminence and JBL drivers are made there. They may be sent over in pieces or have a label silk-screened on them to pass the made in America rules but believe me there is very little being done in the U.S. In fact the bulk of loudspeaker drivers are made completely in China and are shipped under different means and re-branded.

You get what you pay for, specify, and verify. Same thing goes for this side of the pond. There are some very well made products that come from China. In fact some things in loudspeakers are almost impossible to source here. The steel used for the motor structure is a very low carbon alloy. It is almost impossible to source in North America. The premium brands you may think of all use Chinese made parts. That goes for Scanspeak, Vifa, Morel, Eton, Mark Audio etc. 

Bob has chosen a very good manufacturer. 

He has main land China based contacts that verify what goes in and out. 

The parts are tested there and here. So both quality control and source control are taken into account. 

His drivers are and will continue to be some of the best available in their class. The fifteen that is in development will be one of highest if not the highest excursion woofers available period. And they will hit their design targets. Not the marketing floobie dust targets that so many other companies publish but cannot meet.

Quality takes time. Distance makes things a bit slower. Keeping things on track takes time and patience. What you end up with is a very well engineered and manufactured package that does what it says it does. :T

Mark


----------



## Jstslamd

Nuf said


----------



## Paul_B

Can't wait for this one!


----------



## jkrueger

Any news?


----------



## Moonfly

This driver will not release till sometime early next year, and thats if all goes well. Should the driver still not deliver what CSS want, then it will slip further. Its just a waiting game now till the end of first quarter next year.


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

The recone kit for the SDX15 Mk II arrived yesterday and hopefully will get assembled over the weekend.

Stay tuned.

Bob


----------



## Paul_B

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> The recone kit for the SDX15 Mk II arrived yesterday and hopefully will get assembled over the weekend.
> 
> Stay tuned.
> 
> Bob


Weekend has been and gone....:whistling:


----------



## Moonfly

They will still need time to test it and see how things have gone. I would give them a week at least before expecting an update. These things unfortunately take time.


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

Regrettably they didn't send the right part.

Bob


----------



## Paul_B

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> Regrettably they didn't send the right part.
> 
> Bob


Whoops...addle:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

We are arranging to have the people that sent the wrong surround to be surrounded and .....

Oh what can you really do? Remember the line about distance makes things harder?

There is no butt to kick! :rant:

But fear not Bob already has plan B in the works. :clap:

Mark


----------



## jkrueger

I was just reading in the General Subwoofer section about 15's and 18's. Somebody said I could expect output from this woofer that was similar to the TC Ultra5400... I am looking for great bass in a small box. What does someone smarter than me have to say about this? (It doesn't take a lot to be smarter than me.)
Thanks for the help.


Jkrueger


----------



## Mike P.

Only after the parameters for this driver are released can any output comparisons be made, until then it all speculation.


----------



## Moonfly

jkrueger said:


> I was just reading in the General Subwoofer section about 15's and 18's. Somebody said I could expect output from this woofer that was similar to the TC Ultra5400... I am looking for great bass in a small box. What does someone smarter than me have to say about this? (It doesn't take a lot to be smarter than me.)
> Thanks for the help.
> 
> 
> Jkrueger


That comment was based on performance around the old driver, so as Mike says, applying that to the new driver is a complete guess. That said, I would be surprised if the new driver didnt at least match the old one, so if your not in any sort of rush, it may be well worth waiting to see what the new driver can do.


----------



## phodee6

so whats the good word on these drivers, any new info?


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

I could dust off my lecture on patience but that probably wouldn't do.

Dan is on his way back from China so I should know more shortly. We're still expecting the new soft parts before Christmas.

Bob


----------



## subwoofery

I've read the first page and am interested in having the preliminary specs... even though they haven't been Klippel tested yet. 

Will it have a Qts higher or lower than 0.41? 
Inductance figure? Lower than 1mH? 
Will it be IB doable too? 

Thanks a lot, 
Kelvin


----------



## Moonfly

It might be IB doable, but there is generally little reason not to use a proper IB driver, for one they are cheaper. An IB driver needs a QTS of .6 - .7 though.


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

The required soft parts are scheduled to leave China today. If all goes well the driver will be reassembled as early as next week.

Thanks again for you patient support.

Bob


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Who Hoooo!

A testing we will go!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

*Revenge of the cone heads!*

So guess what Bob has sitting in his office?









Oh yeah!

And tough!

See all those mean stitches?

That's Mr. Cone and surround to you guys!

All kidding aside this will be a great cone for the SDX15 MarkII. Things are moving along. Some assembly and some testing and should all work out some production orders. A little at a time and you get what you ask for.




Mark


----------



## subwoofery

Moonfly said:


> It might be IB doable, but there is generally little reason not to use a proper IB driver, for one they are cheaper. An IB driver needs a QTS of .6 - .7 though.


I was actually looking for a Qts around 0.45 for car audio purpose  

Kelvin


----------



## mwmkravchenko

You won't be far off of the mark.

That is a good general number to shoot for. Anywhere in that ball park should make you very happy for car use.


----------



## Moonfly

subwoofery said:


> I was actually looking for a Qts around 0.45 for car audio purpose
> 
> Kelvin


That would make more sense.

That cone and surround does look tough I must say, but I bet its got a bit of weight to it as well eh? I hope this new motor is a nice strong one.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Strong, like bull.

Pretty. Like tractor.

All things are figured out. Any way with but a modicum of driver design intelligence one figures that a larger moving mass equals a lower Fs. All in all a well damped driver system. So what we need to do is strap this onto the existing motor and see what it does.


----------



## kadijk

I was thinking of asking about the sdx 15...didn't realize that they are undergoing new development. I found a dual sdx15 sub in the HTS DIY sub database that uses them and looks impressive. I might make the box for the two no name 15" subs I have laying around, and then replace them with sdx 15's when they blow apart!


----------



## jkrueger

Impatient bump. 



Sorry. Couldn't help it.



Jon


----------



## Moonfly

jkrueger said:


> Impatient bump.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry. Couldn't help it.
> 
> 
> 
> Jon


Apparently its Christmas :whistling:


----------



## jkrueger

Are you insinuating that I am on holidays, bored, and up to no good? Maybe you are about to tell us some good news? I can't tell.



Jon


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Yep your bored and up to no good.

Hate to be the guy to tell you. Especially because I don't even know you :heehee:

But!

I have some news for yuz









So this is the same basket and motor with the new cone, spider and voicecoil assembly.

It works. 

Works well and looks very promising. All things are as they were designed to be.

Bob has been in the loop on all of this. I think happy is the right term. Things are finally working out properly.


----------



## jkrueger

Yaa! When can all us interested trouble makers expect the next "official" update?


Jon


----------



## BPoletti

jkrueger said:


> Are you insinuating that I am on holidays, bored, and up to no good? Maybe you are about to tell us some good news? I can't tell.
> 
> 
> 
> Jon



Well.... Are you? :T


----------



## jkrueger

Okay, okay... I am up to no good. mwmkravchenko almost let slip with the goods, and so I was almost successful. Since I registered here I have moved to Abbotsford. The thought that I would support a local business and end up with such a great driver is cool. Not to mention that the only decent sub that I can afford right now has got to be DIY.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I'm not that easy buddy!

Drop in on Bob he doesn't bite.

Mark


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

I met with Dan W today and have authorized a production sample to be built and tested before the complete production run is authorized. It turns out that we had to go to a different factory and we believe we have found the right one. That makes 4 factories that I will no longer do business with and explains part of the delay as well as the shift in business model being adopted. More to come next month.

Bob


----------



## Moonfly

I am so dying to ask for the TSPs


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Preliminaries will be in Bob's hands soon. What he does is up to him.

Mark


----------



## deathinc

any news?


----------



## canaris

This thread is from late 2010.... :scratch:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Yes. welcome to what happens when things go wrong that you have zero control over.

It is an extreme exercise in patience.

I have been working on this for the whole time!

I had hair when I started!










I keep telling myself I look better now!

:rofl2:


----------



## Zac911

Too funny Mark! Patiently waiting.


----------



## Jasonpctech

That looks like the beginning of the bridge arch on Picard's Enterprise. I have a vision in my head of a 2 row home theater with a arch bar behind the 2nd row with 2 integrated touch screens and any home automation controls or such to create a Trek feel to it in a otherwise mundane build. "Torpedo's ready captain!" I also would install my X-Arcade tankstick and a digital plungger in the center of the two flanking touch screens for some retro arcade action.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Nope.

That's the front baffle of a CBT that I'm working on.


----------



## Jstslamd

Hey hey hey!! No Working on other projects you've got plenty to do. There are some patient men/women her waiting for a subwoofer. No dilly dallying lets move it!! 

Lol jk keep up the great work!!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

*Jstslamd* :foottap: addle: :rofl:


----------



## looneybomber

What's sad is I bought a pair of 1st Gen sdx's right when they came out but, due to unfortunate moving circumstances and military duty, I am just now able to put one (sold the other) into my newly founded media room. Just in time for the new model to come out.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

At least you get some boom!

They are still a very good driver.


----------



## chrapladm

I hope these come out this year. I could use a pair of them for some filler subs. If not I will just have to go with four of the Trio's.:hsd:


----------



## Theresa

chrapladm said:


> I hope these come out this year. I could use a pair of them for some filler subs. If not I will just have to go with four of the Trio's.:hsd:


Yes I need the SDX15 too, to go with a Tempest X2 and replace my 12" Shiva X2. Sub drivers seem to have more than doubled in price and Exodus isn't selling sub drivers AFAIK.


----------



## Jstslamd

Any updates ?


----------



## pbc

Has pricing been finalized as of yet on the new SDX?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Any updates?

Yes you are getting to practice your patience.

And so am I. 

Nobody wants to see this driver more than me. Well maybe a few of us tie...

It is currently Chinese new year. Nothing is happening in the whole of China. So we wait. Wait to see who comes back to the factories from home. Yes I'm serious. A few years back one of the factories lost so many key people after new years that they had production problems. Many people come from the interior of China and work in the more coastal industrial cities. China is slightly smaller than Canada in area, and larger than the U.S. They go home for the holidays. Sometimes they stay home and enjoy life on the farm.

So this is always an interesting time to get things accomplished. Short answer wait. About a month from now we may have the first inkling of what is happening.

And to answer the nagging question as to why things are not done on this side of the pond.

I tried. Bob tried. He even paid a company in the U.S. to do the ground work on a driver. Only to find out afterward that they never could have made the driver. They did not have rights to wind the voice coil geometry. There are shady things all over the place. 

Bob is doing his best. You guys are getting a very up close and personal front row seat in the saga called driver design and manufacture.


----------



## chrapladm

Will these 15's be sold through Bob directly or someone else?

I hope the best for these new subs and will have to pick up a few if everything goes well. Shipping is always the killer for me so I wondered about the location of sales.


----------



## deathinc

The way I see things going, it will be until the end of the year to see this driver in the market. I'm done following this thread.


----------



## sub_crazy

deathinc said:


> The way I see things going, it will be until the end of the year to see this driver in the market. I'm done following this thread.


Patience young grasshopper, do you see any other new subs available that will offer up this kind of performance? The DIY sub market is going through a tough time like every other business in this economy, things will get better over time.


----------



## chrapladm

sub_crazy said:


> Patience young grasshopper, do you see any other new subs available that will offer up this kind of performance? The DIY sub market is going through a tough time like every other business in this economy, things will get better over time.


+1......>DIY is hurting for a high quality subwoofer like this one. I dont mind waiting and as long as they are a good price I will be hoarding a few or 8.:rofl:


----------



## gperkins_1973

I agree with sub crazy. All good things come to those who wait and I believe this driver will bring a new meaning to the 15" driver. It will come.


----------



## Jstslamd

I'm hoping for reasonable but I have a fear that it's going to be a slap you in the face high price.


----------



## chrapladm

I think 300 would be a great price but even 350 is great. As long as the price stays away from the TC Sounds price I am interested.

Keep it along the prices of IST/Mach Audio and I am happy.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Keep in mind that this sub outperforms almost every driver you have mentioned. It is in a class of it's own.

Others will catchup but that to will take time. And a good design as you have been watching, takes quite a bit of time. Mach5 is having their own set of teething problems totally unrelated to their abilities. It totally sucks when there are little to no cutting edge manufacturers on this side of the pond. They are re-assemblers. They take parts from China and set them up into drivers. Even Eminence who make some of their top plates and such source their cast baskets and t yokes from China. There are companies that will custom assemble on this side of the pond. But they will give you OEM prices that are higher than the ones you mentioned. Imagine the consumer pricing! Things are not as simple as they appear to be. 

The price of neodymium has driven up the price of ferrite. As manufacturers jumped over to the ceramic, there was a shortage. Can you say rising prices really fast? 

Everything has gone up. And driver vendors tried to hold their prices long enough for neodymium to drop in price. It hasn't. It is looking like it will stabilize. Loosing money for a business is bad business. To keep in business, and keep products available the prices across the industry are bound to increase just to reflect the materials increase.


----------



## Theresa

Yes, I know it will be superior to other drivers, that's the reason I'm waiting for it. As for pricing, I thought that might be the reason for increased pricing. China has a near monopoly on ferrite and neodymium (sp?) so they control the price. What an outcry there would be if we had such trade policies! I would hope this would be my last sub purchase.


----------



## Mike P.

I'm willing to bet the price will reflect the quality and performance. This driver should outperform all other 15" drivers.


----------



## chrapladm

We will see what the price is and then go from there. Just looking at numbers its hard for me to think about buying a subwoofer that cost 1000 verse four of another for 250. That being said things will be different once I see the final product. I am not saying these subwoofers are going to be anything like the $250 just what I think about when budgeting is all.

Best subwoofer out there sounds like Aurasound/JBL pricing. Which we know is expensive.

Knowing what my mains will cost adding these potential amazing subwoofers will just have to be added into the budget. Because of my wants I always look at using a minimum of four sealed subwoofers. I just hope I can afford four of them is all.:spend:


----------



## gperkins_1973

It would suprise me if the driver was in excessive off $350-400. It would still sell for sure. Remember the 15" FI SP4 driver is $464. How superior the SP4 is or the other way around we just won't know.


----------



## chrapladm

I would pay an extra 50-100 for better quality than the Fi stuff. Not saying there is anything wrong with them but the mounting holes and packing boxes are not to my liking.

SO 3-500 sounds about right for a great subwoofer. Hopefully around August would be nice on delivery.

Is the goal of this subwoofer to be a flat to 300hz or what are the aims for this sub?


----------



## gperkins_1973

It depends on what you are using it for. There are probably better pro high sensitive 15" drivers which will suit that frequency range better especially and be much cheaper. I reckon most people would be using this for Low frequency subs which don't require the need to go up to 300hz. That's my take on it.


----------



## chrapladm

Not saying I would use this subwoofer to 300hz but some of the past great subwoofers were able to be flat to I think 300+ hz and reach down low like a sub can. Tumult or something. I could find it or I could ask Dave Bosso.

Was just curious what to expect from this subwoofer.


----------



## hgoed

In my, mostly amateur opinion, I don't think 300hz is a reasonable expectation for a 15" sub. 

Also, I don't expect this to be a bargain basement priced driver. 

We've been watching prototypes be rejected for over a year. It's not as if this is the first sub driver CSS has put out. One doesn't do that unless the goal is to put forth their best, and I expect that if the quality is there, there will be a price that reflects the skill and effort put into the project. 

I don't know yet if I need this driver, but I hope it's great, and I hope it's priced high enough that there might be a MKIII and also that MKII doesn't end up in slop designs.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

> Not saying I would use this subwoofer to 300hz but some of the past great subwoofers were able to be flat to I think 300+ hz and reach down low like a sub can.


That is a function of the voice coils inductance. So yes the inductance is not that high and it will play up as high as you are asking.

But keep this in mind. A subwoofer has to do the heavy lifting in audio. The upper frequency you are asking about is right in the bottom end of vocals. Very bad idea. The larger cone excursion required to produce any decent bass will grossly distort by means of modulation or imposed beats on the vocal frequencies. There is a reason why subwoofers are normally crossed over at or near 80hz. 



> We've been watching prototypes be rejected for over a year. It's not as if this is the first sub driver CSS has put out. One doesn't do that unless the goal is to put forth their best, and I expect that if the quality is there, there will be a price that reflects the skill and effort put into the project.


I can only agree. Yes this is going to be a true markII. It will perform better in almost every way. And yes it is not easy to get everyone on the same page. This is not your standard subwoofer. It has many design refinements that are well thought out and require some simple attention to detail that is not easy to come by. But it appears that Bob has found a good manufacturer. When we have verified prototypes from them we will be ready to pull the pin. 

And yes there are design considerations to be had in further development. That is always the case. Onward and upward. Many neat things coming down the pipe. But if I tell yah I gotta shoot yah!


----------



## funky_waves

mwmkravchenko said:


> Yes this is going to be a true markII.


X2 

The only thing it is sharing with the original is the basket, everything else is totally new. Likely why it has taken so long, its not just a simple one or two parts being changed, it is a "new" driver.


----------



## 95FLHTC

Hi guys its almost the end of Feb.. Any news about a build for the Mk II especially from Dan.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Who is Dan?

As of today there is no great big news. Still waiting to find out if the new build house has done a prototype. The last build house as you may have read has been turfed due to serious QC issues.

Wait. And wait some more.

Mark


----------



## Jstslamd

We have been waiting!!


----------



## 95FLHTC

95FLHTC said:


> Hi guys its almost the end of Feb.. Any news about a build for the Mk II especially from Dan.





mwmkravchenko said:


> Who is Dan?
> 
> As of today there is no great big news. Still waiting to find out if the new build house has done a prototype. The last build house as you may have read has been turfed due to serious QC issues.
> 
> Wait. And wait some more.
> 
> Mark



Dan Is "Moonfly". I did not know which name to use. I have read all his designs and I like his thinking process when it comes to speaker design.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Ok thanks. Dan is a good thinker.

I'm the one doing the assessment so when Bob says post I post. 

As of right now there is nothing to post.


----------



## 95FLHTC

Thanks Mark for up date.


----------



## christmclean

I am looking forward to this driver. I purchased a sub with the SDX-10 driver and I'm looking forward to the new series as the driver is really good as it is. The CSS page had some info listed on the subs and that there would be some info on them with the kits, but his has been taken down. I am looking forward to hearing about the new business model with the kits also. I think this will be great product line.


----------



## randyc1

Looking for a 15" Driver for Small Sealed enclosure able to cross at 110hz ,... would this Driver be a probable candidate ??


----------



## Moonfly

95FLHTC said:


> Hi guys its almost the end of Feb.. Any news about a build for the Mk II especially from Dan.


I sold up all my AV kit and moved form the UK to Spain. When I am in the position to start building my HT system again, rest assured I will be building myself some nice new subs. I would opt for IB first but if thats not possible then the chances are I will be building a 15 or 18 sealed sub. This driver is definitely one I have an eye on.



randyc1 said:


> Looking for a 15" Driver for Small Sealed enclosure able to cross at 110hz ,... would this Driver be a probable candidate ??


Its almost certainly a solid yes, but of course without having the actual driver we cant be 100%.


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

Not sure as to what qualifies as "small" these days but we are working on a new kit which with an 18" driver in 3 cu ft sealed.

Stay tuned!!

Bob


----------



## randyc1

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not sure as to what qualifies as "small" these days but we are working on a new kit which with an 18" driver in 3 cu ft sealed.
> 
> Stay tuned!!
> 
> Bob



...Yes 3 cuft is the max size i wanted ,..so will there be a new SDX15 MkII ??


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

Yes, I expect word of the next (final, I hope) prototype this next week. Costs have been agreed upon but we will want to make sure that the build was done correctly before ordering.

Bob


----------



## Moonfly

Whens the SDX18 thread opening then :bigsmile:


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

It's not an SDX18 but something to tide us over tell the 15 is ready. We're playing with some new DSP based plate amps, etc.

Bob


----------



## Moonfly

Sounds interesting. What kind of power are you looking at, both handling for the 18 (I'll guess maybe 500 watter) and the output of the amps. Also, with the driver be 4 ohm, 8 ohm, or both?


----------



## sub_crazy

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not sure as to what qualifies as "small" these days but we are working on a new kit which with an 18" driver in 3 cu ft sealed.
> 
> Stay tuned!!
> 
> Bob


That's pretty small for an 18", how powerful of a motor are we talking about? Any more details, I am definitely interested.


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

It's an 8 ohm driver and the amp is rated at 800 watts. For the SDX15 Mk II we would use a higher powered version with similar control possibilities.

Bob


----------



## Moonfly

Whats the driver motor rating?


----------



## håkan

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not sure as to what qualifies as "small" these days but we are working on a new kit which with an 18" driver in 3 cu ft sealed.
> 
> Stay tuned!!
> 
> Bob


How will it be with distorisionen in the box when you only use 3 cu ft have you done simulations on the box and how many watts are used in the simulation.


----------



## christmclean

That is amazing. Here we are looking for info on the 15 and all of a sudden we are talking an 18. I think this sounds like a great idea, and maybe it just won't be to tide over for the SDX 15 II but another product altogether. Sounds like great things are coming out way.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

"How will it be with distortion in the box when you only use 3 cu ft have you done simulations on the box and how many watts are used in the simulation."

OK time for some answers. Bob let the cat out so I tell you guys what I can.

The driver we are using is a very well designed offering. It's distortion products are in keeping with our new design line. As in very low distortion products. Power handling is 1KW steady state for at least 2 hours. This is a Pro Sound driver. It has a X-max of 13mm and an X-mech of 22mm. Sound pressure levels attainable will be very impressive for the box sizes. 

We have three designs for this driver coming down the pipeline. They are sealed, vented and PR. All will be designed to their utmost potential biggest bang in the smallest box. Our smallest to date is under 70 liters. We are trying to break new ground in what is available to the DIY community.

Our new amplifier is a very well designed Class D design that has integrated DSP capabilities. We will use this to provide a user switchable set of 4 settings. It will be per-programmed by CSS to the best available output of the boxes in question. There will be decisions to be made when you order this, as in which of the three types do you want to build. We can tailor the output to each type of box and provide output response tailoring presets.

This is being done to take the guess work out of using an amplifier with DSP and to provide the best combination of amplifier and driver protection possible.

Oh yeah how much amplifier power are we talking about?

700 watts. It is not the 1000 watts you find from PE. This is a pro-sound OEM module from a very well respected manufacturer that actually pumps out 700 watts continuous 800 peak. The PE amp is rated on a 1/3 duty cycle. As in for very short periods of time it throw out 900 watts. We didn't like this very much. To much smoke a mirrors. And no DSP either.

We looked at quite a few power amplifier modules before settling in on this one. It reflects the build a design philosophy that CSS is set to fulfill. High Quality Sound reproduction.


----------



## Moonfly

When do you think the TSP's will be available?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

These are kits. Not individual offerings.


----------



## christmclean

I look forward to seeing the new kits and the DSP amps. I am wondering how the 20hz extension will be with pro drivers. I understand that the pro subs usually roll off closer to 30. I know that you will not be happy with this with your new kits. Can you give any insights into the frequency response and low bass extension.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

How about 16 to 18 hertz?


----------



## randyc1

Just one question : 

The beggining of this thread was about the new 15" SDX Mkll, with 34mm+ Xmax , 1500 w power handling, 4" vioc coil ect...

...Will this " 15" SDX Mkll " Sub become a reality or not ???

Thanks .


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Yessir be a couple posts up.


----------



## christmclean

It sounds like you will have both the really high xmax and the low xmax covered for the different people who prefer either. I will look forward to hearing the differences that you find between the two. Sounds like a great match. The low frequency sound great on the low xmax driver that you posted.


----------



## 95FLHTC

70 liters ...Is that possible for a 18in driver. By my calculations thats going to be a tight fit assuming 1in clearance around the speaker.



MM	Feet	Inches
Length	510.0	1.67	20.08
Width	510.0	1.67	20.08
Depth	270.0	0.89	10.63

CU L	CU FT
Volume	70.23	2.48


----------



## mwmkravchenko

I think that there is a misconception as to what the parameters actually describe. 

The X-max figure is simple a subtractive measurement of the voice coil winding height less the motor top gap plate height. Then you divide this by two. It does not describe the extent to which the motor will drive the woofer cone forward or reward. Depending on the motor design the X-max figure may be very far off of the maximum controlled excursion capability of a driver. With the driver we have chosen we have a good X-max number and an even better mechanical excursion capability. This is a true to life number that we actually get. So the driver can push forward and reward 22mm for a total of 44mm overall. Not a slouch in the excursion department.

As for the question regarding the box volume. You do not need a cube to make an enclosure. You can have a 20" x 20" x ? size enclosure. So yes somethings are possible. We are also working on customized versions of the CSS passive radiators that will allow greater mass with different balance points. This will allow us to subtract more bass from smaller enclosures at a cost of maximum SPL capabilities. I for one am willing to trade off a few db for a more manageable box size. Besides down low our ears acuity to changes in SPL level is not a good as higher up in frequency. In short you won't hear it!


----------



## christmclean

Thank you for clearing up my misconception. I clearly need to get better informed on speaker design. I have started reading up on it already since you piqued my interest. I still stand by my statement that you will have a very high xmax driver in the SDX 15 MK II at 34mm, and a lower 18 inch version with 13mm that covers both spectrums.

I think it just keeps getting better with the realization of custom versions of the CSS passives to give a better low frequency response with lower box sizes with just a little bit lost for SPL. I built a box just to show my wife what a 24 inch cube looked like in anticipation of the SDX 15 MK II from what the original MK 15 used for box size, and she said there is no way you are getting that in the house. This will be great for us guys who have to deal with the WAF factor.


----------



## pbc

Has there been any frequency response graphs of the driver posted as of yet? Did a quick search in this thread but couldn't find any, but it is entirely possible that I missed it of course!


----------



## pbc

.... oh, as I'm curious how these will compare to the Acoustic Elegance AV15H drivers that I have. Came close to buying the last few original SDX drivers from Bob back when I built my sub but for various reasons went with the AV15Hs, which apparently were one of the last ones that made it across the line on that front as well!


----------



## pbc

mwmkravchenko said:


> These are kits. Not individual offerings.


I think maybe I have misunderstood what was being offered. So the 15" SDX MKII will only be available in a kit? That is, if someone wants to buy the drivers for their own projects they'd have to buy them in the kits?


----------



## sub_crazy

pbc said:


> I think maybe I have misunderstood what was being offered. So the 15" SDX MKII will only be available in a kit? That is, if someone wants to buy the drivers for their own projects they'd have to buy them in the kits?


He was referring to the 18" subwoofer they will have to tide them over until the SDX 15" arrives, those will only be available in kit form but the SDX 15" will be available as a raw driver.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

What Mike said. Kits only apply to the 18 inch drivers.


----------



## pbc

mwmkravchenko said:


> What Mike said. Kits only apply to the 18 inch drivers.


Cool. May have to give the new 15" drivers a try and compare to my Av15H drivers. Wonder if would simply be a matter of swapping the drivers, though I guess the screw holes won't line up perfectly?


----------



## thatsnasty

What do you guys think of Ricci's testing of the SDX15's on Data-bass?

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/5-the-free-air-driver-excursion-video-thread/

I have one that has been in storage for around a year (actually longer I think), but this isn't motivating me to want to finish the build.
Abrupt clanking sounds around 20mm making 33%~~ of rated x-max unusable.
It's kind of upsetting because these drivers (and probably the new ones) are great for the price, especially for us Canadians.

Don't really need for 18's when 2-4 of these in sealed boxes will give you nearly the same results, that is, if they don't have this issue.

Is this common? Should I be testing mine with a certain power / sine wave to see if it does the same? (when I get an enclosure)


----------



## CorvetteC5

I am unfamiliar with Ricci, however of the two SDX15's I bought in 2008 one of them does bottom out at high throws. Back in 2008 I built a pair of ported enclosures with one SDX15 in each, added DSP EQ, and run them from a Behrenger Europower amp. Pleased with the sound and room shacking bass, but the speaker on the right did begin bottoming out and sounding distorted after some months of use. I had the driver inspected and confirmed that the voice coil was physically bent over at the end nearest the back plate, causing it to rub against the magnet. Looked to be bottoming out and mechanically hitting the plate. The driver was rebuilt and the fixed speaker still does this. So I now run the two subs at lower volumes.

Only one of the two drivers does this, and the problem follows this one driver and not the ported enclosure, so it appears to be a tolerance stack-up problem where this one driver is allowed to mechanically bottom out. Although disappointing I continue to use these two speakers with my Home Theater and like the SDX15's.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

They are tests. Every driver will bottom and or make weird noises.

I don't know exactly how Josh measured what he posted. I see no dial indicator or measured spacer blocks, no indication of there being any laser distance measurement. Hard to say what was used to come up with the numbers.

And I never worked on that woofer, so I have no great insights as to what it could be other than what Josh posted.

But I can say that we are doing very careful testing o the next generation and validation of all the parameters.

We will provide similar documentation to show what the driver can actually achieve in erms of excursion.

So no worries here.


----------



## randyc1

mwmkravchenko said:


> They are tests. Every driver will bottom and or make weird noises.
> 
> I don't know exactly how Josh measured what he posted. I see no dial indicator or measured spacer blocks, no indication of there being any laser distance measurement. Hard to say what was used to come up with the numbers.
> 
> And I never worked on that woofer, so I have no great insights as to what it could be other than what Josh posted.
> 
> But I can say that we are doing very careful testing o the next generation and validation of all the parameters.
> 
> We will provide similar documentation to show what the driver can actually achieve in erms of excursion.
> 
> So no worries here.



Thes NEW drivers,...are they ever going to come out ! :huh:


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Getting closer.

Prototype from the build house that did the cool surround and cone is almost done our prototype. Missing one critical part. It's called a magnet.

Don't work to well without those things!

Then we get it tested over there.

or we buy it half plane ticket and fly it over here.

Not kidding on the half a plane ticket cost either.

Stinking expensive to ship one driver by air freight.


----------



## CorvetteC5

mwmkravchenko said:


> They are tests. Every driver will bottom and or make weird noises.
> 
> I don't know exactly how Josh measured what he posted. I see no dial indicator or measured spacer blocks, no indication of there being any laser distance measurement. Hard to say what was used to come up with the numbers.
> 
> And I never worked on that woofer, so I have no great insights as to what it could be other than what Josh posted.
> 
> But I can say that we are doing very careful testing o the next generation and validation of all the parameters.
> 
> We will provide similar documentation to show what the driver can actually achieve in erms of excursion.
> 
> So no worries here.




Hi Mark,

I agree that driven hard enough, a driver will produce distorting in one form or another, but the better drivers (IMO) do not mechanically damage themselves. Now that I know better, I seek out drivers that have a suspension that simply stops the cone/coil assembly from increasing in excursion as power in increased. As compared to mechanically hitting the voice coil inside the gap, at one excursion extreme or the other. 

Basically I seek drivers for bass that simply stop getting louder when their maximum power is reached. As additional power is added above this point the driver maintains its composure, volume, clarity and the voice coil heats up from the excess watts. One of my two SDX15 does this to the power levels I have used and one SDX15 does not. This is all I was trying to share in my previous posting


----------



## Craig Treusdell

How will this sub compare to the original Tumult?
Broke the spider free from the coil a few months back but fortunately had a spare... 8 years at 2400 watts with no complaints.
I've been watching the progression of this new driver with interest for some time now.


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Well the original tumult specs are posted below.

The SDX15 MarkII should meet or beat all of them.

Coil is 100mm instead of 75mm.

Surround allows greater throw.

Power handling is higher.

And Sd is close to the same.

Should be quite a treat to fool around with.

Oh yeah X-max on the SDX15 MarkII is a bit higher!

Mark


----------



## mwmkravchenko

You guys might be interested in this:


----------



## Jstslamd

Tease!!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

This is the prototype from the build house that is going to make the driver run.

Looks great.

Good quality workmanship and nice detailing.

Now we are waiting for some numbers.

Wait, wait, give me a few more years and I'll be good at this.


----------



## speargunsandsubs

Just wondering if its planned to allow the new sdx to be downward or upward mounting for better placement flexibility


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Place it anyway you choose. It makes very little difference. That is true of almost every woofer. The cones don't weigh enough to really make them sag against the suspension system.


----------



## Jason Schultz

Any Idea of price yet?


----------



## TagUrToast

I have an SDX 15 in a sealed enclosure and have been really happy with it, if I ever find myself building another, the SDX 15 v2 will be the driver I use. 

Can the SDX15 v2 sit flat on the ground upside down?

Has a power rating been released yet?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

See post# 274

4 inch voice coil in excess of 1 kw power handling.

Peaks can be significantly higher.


----------



## caper26

when will this be available?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Our numbers are in, and they are short of the targets.

Not mechanically but electrically.

The magnet is to small to get us the motor strength we are looking for.

So yes Bigger!

All sims point to that being the last of the electrical tweeks to do. We tried going one way and now we have to bite the bullet and pour on the ferrite.

A mere 250 mm diameter magnet.

Moving up to the best of the best class with this iteration.

So what do you guys get for all your patience?

A driver that will do what it says it will do.

That is the entire point to our being cautious in our manufacturer and in okaying a design for a full run.


----------



## randyc1

Does anyone know, or has it even been established, the ideal cu.ft enclosure (Sealed and Ported),this Driver is good for ?


----------



## mwmkravchenko

We are shooting for pretty much the same ballpark. 

In practical terms it could be interchanagble. 

Precisely I do not have at the moment. It will change a bit with the larger magnet.


----------



## GranteedEV

mwmkravchenko said:


> A mere 250 mm diameter magnet.


Just as a man, I *love* it!!! :devil:

Nothing like a big huge chunk of awesomeness behind the frame:


----------



## caper26

I want this... but in the meantime, I think I will be making a SDX10 for fun... as part of a future pair of SDX10's near LP.


----------



## hiro01

I registered here just to get updates on this driver - I can't wait for more info!


----------



## mwmkravchenko

Another Chain yank.

The gentleman who did most of the design work for this driver is named Chris Brunhaver. He did this rendering.

I thought it cool enough to post it. You get to see the innards. Something that you rarely have a chance to do.









The yellow part is a brass inductance modulation ring. Helps to lower the distortion.
A nice touch you don't see in all that many drivers that are good for high excursion.


----------



## Cyberfloatie

Oh man... I'm drooling so bad. Saving my pennies now so I can get a pair when they start shipping.


----------



## fergi

I'm sure that some of the people following this thread already have in mind what they would consider the ultimate application for this driver. Mine would be a sealed enclosure with dual drivers.

I be interested in hearing some of your ideas.


----------



## Voodoo Rufus

Two sealed boxes, dual 15"s each. Powered by a Face 2500 in a stereo sub configuration.

Probably dreaming, but it's a good one.


----------



## Cyberfloatie

Voodoo Rufus said:


> Two sealed boxes, dual 15"s each. Powered by a Face 2500 in a stereo sub configuration.


I'm not familiar with that amp. Linkage?

What tune could achieve with that setup? I expect it would make for some tight, punchy bass... 



Voodoo Rufus said:


> Probably dreaming, but it's a good one.


A very good one.


----------



## sub_crazy

I think he is talking about Face Audio Amps which I replaced all of my QSC amps with. The Titanium Extra series is more suited to subs but the normal Titanium series is excellent as well. I stumbled onto these amps when someone had a used F700TS for cheap and I replaced my QSC PLX2502 driving a pair of TC Sounds Axis 12's. The subs really sounded like they were being driven with more authority, I was surprised. I then picked up a Face Audio F1150TX used and it smoked my QSC PLX3402 driving a LMS Ultra bridged.

The Face Audio website is down, in this economy I sure hope they are still in business as they make excellent amps.


----------



## Voodoo Rufus

I was thinking of this amp: http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=146&products_id=668

Depending on what the drivers require for box size (haven't seen the T/S parameters so I can play in WinISD), I'd hopefully aim for a sealed box Q of .577-.707.


----------



## sub_crazy

The F1200TS is an excellent amp as well.


----------



## Larry McConville

Agreed, I have 3 F1200TS and 1 F2000TX; all very nice products.

The 3 TS series were driving 6 Mael-X in stereo; I'm still thinking through my next sub implementation...





sub_crazy said:


> The F1200TS is an excellent amp as well.


----------



## sub_crazy

I am hoping to test my Face F1150TX against a clone amp on a pair of LMS Ultra's soon. I have a F1600TX as well but it's currently in use. I preferred the F1150TX over a QSC PL9 and RMX5050 so it should be interesting to see how it holds up against the clone.


----------



## Larry McConville

Nice!

Thought you were going to check out the LMSR 15 next?

Unfortunate these guys are having so much build house trouble; I'm really wanting to pick up a pair of the Mk II to play around with...don't want to sit on the sidelines much longer...


----------



## sub_crazy

My LMS Ultra's are gone but a friend of mine has some along with a clone amp so that is were we will compare.

Currently I have a pair of Mael-X 18's and a single Mael-X 21. Right now I am testing out 2 sealed quad opposed 12's with the Mael 21 and it's making quiet the ruckus:hsd:

I had my finger on the trigger of 2 RCF 21's but I am going to hold off for right now. For the price of dual RCF 21's the performance below around 50hz closely matches the LMS Ultra but above that it blows the Ultra away. I can get dual RCF 21's for a little less than a single LMS Ultra shipped and I have always wanted to try out some big pro drivers.


----------



## Paul_B

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> Not sure as to what qualifies as "small" these days but we are working on a new kit which with an 18" driver in 3 cu ft sealed.
> 
> Stay tuned!!
> 
> Bob


Where can I find more info on this? Definitely interested. :T


----------



## AudioPhill

I have saved up enough to pick up at least a pair, I've not made it to thread as often as I was, any release date in mind? Pre-order etc?


----------



## Larry McConville

I'd suspect they're still a couple months out yet; perhaps an August delivery.

Certainly trying on an enthusiast's patience, but we'll have a quality product with thoughtful consideration applied throughout...


----------



## Creative Sound

Hi,

While the last sample built looked impressive the magnet strength was not what we wanted so it will get larger and heavier. More patience required but that's a virtue.

Bob


----------



## mwmkravchenko

The designer worked hard at finding a factory that made the larger stronger magnet this should get us the motor strength that we are looking for. Once that is in place the rest is locked in and good to go. 

Swimming in the shark tank wearing tuna flavored shorts. The classic problems of small (by Chinese manufacturer standards) scale manufacturing by large companies. Everything takes quite a while.


----------



## thucker

I have been keeping an eye out for an update on this subwoofer. Is this subwoofer going to be relapsed sometime this year, or is it going to roll over to 2013? 


I have been looking to build a couple 15" subwoofers.


----------



## BassThatHz

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> While the last sample built looked impressive the magnet strength was not what we wanted so it will get larger and heavier. More patience required but that's a virtue.
> 
> Bob


Bob, I still remember listening to Mussorgsky at your place on your MA-6CIR's (or whichever cones it was) some 5 years ago now, mighty impressive for $80 a pair.

I still have the original Mk-I prototype you gave me back in the summer of 2007. It redefined my understanding of what deep bass was.
It still works to this day and I'm keeping it until the Mark-II comes out to replace it...


----------



## anjora

i would defninitly like to see some competition against lms 5400 ultra. 15 inch is to small for my taste but if the price is good it will compensate for that. 2 sdx15 might be a great budget alternative, for high end 6 drivers might be good enough. still it would be nice with a 18+ inch version.


----------



## BPoletti

Is this project still active? Will there actually be an SDX15 Mk II?


----------



## christmclean

Hoping for an update on this project also. It seemed that it was only a larger motor structure holding the project back. Hoping that in a couple months this could have been taken care of. Here is hoping that this is close to being ready for an update so we can see the product, that last prototype looked great, trying to imageine what it will look like with a larger motor structure.


----------



## Numero1

I have been watching this thread for years now and I am loosing hope it will ever see the light of day. I was hoping to use this to upgrade from my trio12 kit.


----------



## caper26

me 2. where in NS are you pal?


----------



## Danielson99

Not to sound crass or anything but it would sound quite feasible to build a factory from the ground up and then design and produce exceptional numbers of a great driver all within' a 2 year timeframe....assuming you want a heli-pad on the roof and an underground subsonic testing chamber.

But hey, who am I to judge. I would have loved to have tried one of these drivers though. Thanks for the effort with all the other great products you sell. This driver does not define CSS.


----------



## AudioPhill

danielson99 said:


> not to sound crass or anything but it would sound quite feasible to build a factory from the ground up and then design and produce exceptional numbers of a great driver all within' a 2 year timeframe....assuming you want a heli-pad on the roof and an underground subsonic testing chamber.
> 
> But hey, who am i to judge. I would have loved to have tried one of these drivers though. Thanks for the effort with all the other great products you sell. This driver does not define css.


but it may have redefined it!!!


----------



## AudioPhill

Creative Sound said:


> Hi,
> 
> While the last sample built looked impressive the magnet strength was not what we wanted so it will get larger and heavier. More patience required but that's a virtue.
> 
> Bob


Sale me one of the samples!


----------



## davidp

any news?


----------



## steve1616

I am just glad that they are perfecting this thing before they come to production with it. Some manufacturers will just come to market with a product that isn't ready yet. This woofer should be awesome once they have everything how they want it. Good things take time.


----------



## Slim_

Any new info, will we see this in production this year?


----------



## anjora

I am thinking of building sealed boxes with 2*18 inch woofers or 3*15 inch woofers. Tc sounds lms 18 5400 ultra should do the job but it's a bit expensive, i hopes 3 css sdx15 mk2 will be a more affordible choice and performing about the same.


----------



## Numero1

Looks like this project is dead. The link on the CSS web site news web page has been removed. That's just too bad. Can somebody confirm this.


----------



## Mike P.

From the main page on the CSS website:



> *We are almost out of TRIO12s and at present there is no plan to continue with this model.There may be an SDX12 and there is still hope for the SDX15 Mk II.*


----------



## Numero1

Thanks for the reply but what do you guys mean by "still hope".


----------



## Stereodude

Any news to report / updates in the past month?


----------



## Creative Sound

Nothing new to report on the SDX15 Mk II but the SDX12 is on order and I will post more details shortly.

Bob


----------



## Stereodude

Creative Sound said:


> Nothing new to report on the SDX15 Mk II...


Bob, thanks for the reply. The SDX15 MkII is still being worked on and is an active project though right? The comment on the website is a little cryptic.

Also, on these new drivers will the 3 element inductance model be provided (Ls / Le, Lp / Le2, Rp / Re2) instead of just Le so the drivers can be more accurately modeled?


----------



## Numero1

Oh wow, do you have any reading material about this SDX12? I am very interested. I am currently using the TRIO12 driver along with a 15" passive with the Bash500 and I like it. However, I find that in some movies like Wrath of the Titans it bottoms out VIOLENTLY. This new driver might be a nice upgrade.

Actually, I am using two subs now. A Klipsch RW10d, 250 Watts ported, set for everything below 120 and the home made sub set to everything below 50 Hz. I find they complement each other quite nicely.

Looking forward to more info on the new drivers.


----------



## caper26

Numero1 said:


> Oh wow, do you have any reading material about this SDX12? I am very interested. I am currently using the TRIO12 driver along with a 15" passive with the Bash500 and I like it. However, I find that in some movies like Wrath of the Titans it bottoms out VIOLENTLY. This new driver might be a nice upgrade.
> 
> Actually, I am using two subs now. A Klipsch RW10d, 250 Watts ported, set for everything below 120 and the home made sub set to everything below 50 Hz. I find they complement each other quite nicely.
> 
> Looking forward to more info on the new drivers.


Yeah, I find that 500W is too much for this sub. You can NOT run it hot at all since the amp doesn't run out of steam. I am using the SPA500 and noticed the same thing. If you are going to watch movies at high levels, then you have to leave the gain pretty much where you calibrated it at with whatever PEQ you used. Do you find that this happens during transients more-so than longer passages? The reason I ask is because during some testing (tones) I found that I could get ridiculous results, but then when a movie is played, it would bottom out during what seemed like a lot lesser passage. One thought I had on this was that DTS LFE, I heard, is mixed 10 dB hotter for movies. This would have an effect of increasing the gain that much, which isn't 'good'. Thoughts? I am starting my TRIO12/APR15 kit next week. Was at the wood club last night figuring out my new router an circle jig  
PS: where abouts in NS are you? :wave:


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## Numero1

caper26 said:


> Yeah, I find that 500W is too much for this sub. You can NOT run it hot at all since the amp doesn't run out of steam. I am using the SPA500 and noticed the same thing. If you are going to watch movies at high levels, then you have to leave the gain pretty much where you calibrated it at with whatever PEQ you used. Do you find that this happens during transients more-so than longer passages? The reason I ask is because during some testing (tones) I found that I could get ridiculous results, but then when a movie is played, it would bottom out during what seemed like a lot lesser passage. One thought I had on this was that DTS LFE, I heard, is mixed 10 dB hotter for movies. This would have an effect of increasing the gain that much, which isn't 'good'. Thoughts? I am starting my TRIO12/APR15 kit next week. Was at the wood club last night figuring out my new router an circle jig
> PS: where abouts in NS are you? :wave:


I sent you a PM.


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## boostick4

Any update?!?!


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## Stereodude

Another month... Any update?


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## Creative Sound

Stereodude said:


> Another month... Any update?


Frustration central here!!

I've been waiting for a drawing for the revised motor for 6 months and may get it before the end of the year or CES.

Bob


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## Stereodude

Creative Sound said:


> Frustration central here!!
> 
> I've been waiting for a drawing for the revised motor for 6 months and may get it before the end of the year or CES.


Yikes! It sounds like someone needs a boot repeatedly applied to their backside. :bigsmile:


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## Mike P.

I agree. This is month 26 since the thread was created.


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## steve1616

I already have a great sub, so I will just patiently wait until I can tinker with this one if it ever comes out. I might be crying right now if this was going to be my first sub.


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## favelle

I take it this thing is not happening??


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## Jstslamd

I think it's odd that they spat out an sdx12 so fast but the 15 never came to fruition. Weird.


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## christmclean

Hoping that you got the final drawing for the revised motor that you needed to get his project moving again. The 12 looks so good but would really like to get more output with the 15.

I look forward to an update on the status of the project. I know this is going to be a good one worth waiting for.


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## AudioPhill

I still havent given up... Is this a bust? I need the closure...


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## Jasonpctech

Yea at least tell us the sad sorted conclusion.


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## Jstslamd

I second the explanation. !


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## steve nn

Last I saw posted by Bob in a thread is that the 15” SDX is pretty much off the board.


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## Creative Sound

If and when things change I'll let everyone know.

Right now the emphasis for us is on the 2 new tweeters, the LDW7 and the the kits around these. There are also some new kits coming around the SDX10 as well as flat packs for the SDX12.

Appreciate everyone's support.

Bob


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## dougc

I still keep my fingers crossed for the return of the SDX15 so I can get a re-cone for one of mine - I can't wait to put them back in service. They are such awesome sounding drivers!


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## Creative Sound

Hi,

I'm hoping that this will still come to pass but at the moment we need to be patient and trust that what needs to be done will be done.

Bob


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## bassman_soundking

super old thread, but wondering after all this time if anything has changed?


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## Jasonpctech

Good question. Was real hot for one of these for months. Then just settled with Dayton MK III Titanic. But hey would consider a new build it been long enough.


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## Creative Sound

Hi,

Not going to happen.

Sorry
Bob


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