# What Color To Paint Your HT?



## Phil M

Before painting my HT room I had seen a few dealer demo rooms that looked great, but painted in very strong colors - such as deep reds/burgundy etc. It struck me that this would shift the color balance/perception or whatever the correct technical term is. So finished up using a grey similar to the background on this forum for my room. Since then I've seen light greens, bright blues....
So my questions are - does wall color make a difference to the projected image, and if it does what color(s) should be used?


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## lcaillo

Search for SMPTE RP166.


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## Tommy

We still havent decided on a color pattern, so I'm still searching and interested in this topic also


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## Phil M

Tommy, I don't know what the exact answer is - even though my room is a mid-grey I left the ceiling in 'mud white', my calibrater hit the roof (excuse the pun) as he complained about the reflection from the screen onto the ceiling. He wanted it flat black! We compromised and I used the same grey for 50%of the ceiling (which coincides with an RSJ bisecting the room). 

So my objective for starting the thread was to encourage thought and debate, as the room can play a critical part in the viewing experience.


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## Tommy

Well my room is a dedicated room so I have no problems using colors that would enhance the overall performance of the show. I know this may be different if the room was a dual purpose room.

I have no problems painting the ceiling black etc. Within the given limits of this though I would like to pick out some choices that look better then others.

As you pointed out alot seem to be deep reds/burgundy. I went to one HT installers demo room and he had the whole room painted black.

I was thinking maybe a burgundy color for the walls, black ceiling and possibly painting the columns black but Im not sure.

I do however think it was just to plain when the whole room was one solid color.


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## Phil M

Tommy, my room is broken up with wall treatments that are a darker grey which breaks up the single wall color and looks good. I'll put up some photos. 
Maybe some of the installers can post their experiences?

My ISF calibrater is a bigger perfectionist than I am  that has to hurt.


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## Sonnie

lcaillo said:


> Search for SMPTE RP166.


Hey Leonard... I searched for that and didn't come up with much. What is it?

I have no clue on color... we just threw something on the wall, but I'm not overly tickled with it and might change it later. But we did try to stay with darker colors and even painted the ceiling a midnight blue.

I think our carpet is neutral and our recliners are neutral, so changing the colors would be fairly easy.


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## Tommy

Slightly off but the same topic at the same time, how much does hanging those movie posters effect the room?

I'm sure they cant be good for reflection but would like them for the decor.


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## Ayreonaut

I've read that the reflections from the ceiling, walls and floor on the screen are critical only on the areas _near_ the screen. You should use neutral, darker carpet and paint on the first five feet or so at the front of the room, but behind that you should be able to take your pick.


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## khellandros66

Colors should be very "dead" such as burgandy, deep blue, and darker greys. I would recommend a color pallete like that. I would say the walls would be lighter then the ceiling because dark walls and light ceiling make the room seem smaller but very tall.

~Bob


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## Phil M

"Room color specifications in SMPTE RP166 are as follows. Visible surfaces that surround the TV screen should be a truly neutral color. SMPTE used the Munsell Color Order System to define their color references. Neutral is any color of gray throughout the range from black to white. Surface colors that lie within the observer’s field of view with the monitor screen should be in the neutral category. The purpose for this specification is to preserve accurate color perception of the image on the screen. "

Thats what I found on one site:


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## Sonnie

Interesting. Sounds like I've got my colors close then... just need to paint the front part some shade of gray. Dark burgundy, gray, and dark blue... might work.


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## Steve Williamson

I am going tans, dark brown and nearly black. Went to our local leather suite dealer for theatre seating and their showroom had a ceiling painted with a light tan border of about three feet then a very very dark brown middle, it looked like the ceiling had no centre, very dramatic effect.

We will have dark brown carpet with lighter border and light tan or latte coloured leather seating. I agree that the couple of metres nearest the screen is the most influential in terms of colour problems and I have always steared clear of burgandies and reds as I was told long ago that the red side of the spectrum causes the most colour saturation on the screen. I can't verify that as I have never used any reds.

The walls are going to have carpeted panels between columns so if I get bored, we can change the look of the room without repainting.

This theatre has nice colours even though it is burgandy'ish:


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## Phil M

Most of us on the forum are DIY'ers learning as we go along and from each other. 
For example I was just about to finish my room and realised, at the last minute, that my equipment was behind me and how could I use my RC? Luckily the walls were not quite finished and I was able to put in an IR repeater system.

My objective in starting this thread was to learn, and raise awareness level to the fact that color of the environment does have an impact on the projected image. Knowing this it then becomes a personal choice on how to design your room.

What triggered me off was seeing the industry professionals giving awards for theater designs that were extreme - and for me more distracting and not squeezing out the maximum performance of the system. Again its a personal choice. I was put on the right track by my ISF calibrater, he called me before hand and avised me on screen choice, projector position, room color etc. This guy is used by well known projector manufacturers in the industry to set up projectors at trade shows, and also the homes of senior people inside these companies. The guy is extreme, a bigger perfectionist than I am, but still shakes his head when he sees my ceiling. One question that does come to mind - and that is if you do choose a strong color scheme for your room, which creates a color shift, can this be compensated for in calibration (IRE levels, Gamma)?


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## Phil M

Some pics from my HT/Gym:


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## Phil M

More HT/Gym pics:


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## Sonnie

Hmmm.... work out while you watch a movie. Pretty cool.


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## Tommy

Thanks for posting the room pic's all. Different pic's of how the rooms are painted really add to the topic.

Steve, your pics gave me some ideas I will be following up on. I have colums similar to the pic you posted and have been discussing with the wife whether or not we should paint them a seperate color then the walls.

Phil you mentioned installing a IR system, I'd be interested if you posted a seperate topic on that alone to see what and how that was done. It would be a good tuturial for us newbies.


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## Steve Williamson

Tommy, I think the best idea would be to paint the walls and ceiling the darkest colour you can then if you need to lighten the room, use furnishings and wall coverings. Better than finding you have to much reflective light in the room and having to repaint again.


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## Phil M

Tommy said:


> Phil you mentioned installing a IR system, I'd be interested if you posted a seperate topic on that alone to see what and how that was done. It would be a good tuturial for us newbies.


Good idea Tommy, I'll kick it off.


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## Tommy

Steve Williamson said:


> Tommy, I think the best idea would be to paint the walls and ceiling the darkest colour you can then if you need to lighten the room, use furnishings and wall coverings. Better than finding you have to much reflective light in the room and having to repaint again.


I didnt mean using lighter colors for the room. Were thinking a black ceiling and front wall and burgundy for the rest of the walls. What were trying to decide though is whether the columns in the room should be a different color then the walls. Sort of like the above picture where the columns and trim work are a different color but I would prefer a darker color.


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## Phil M

Tommy said:


> Thanks for posting the room pic's all. Different pic's of how the rooms are painted really add to the topic.QUOTE]
> 
> Tommy, the room looks brighter on the photos than it is - the 'charcoal' band around the front and side of the room, along with the tiles on the back wall, are acoustic panels to improve the room acoustics. They also serve to breakup the monotonous color scheme.
> Based on the industry advice 'any dark color' does not give a balanced image color, the recommendation is any shade from white to black. Using another color scheme is a personal choice, but you will get color shift. Is it important - guess it depends on how obsessed you are :dizzy:


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## lcaillo

One thing to consider is that even if your colors are neutral, the lighting in the room affects the color. Ideally, bck light at D65 is best for the most neutral effect.


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## Alan Brown

This is my first post. Hi, to all.

Room conditions affect both the physical behavior of the display system and the perception of the viewer. Color of decor is a critical characteristic of viewing environment conditions. The recommendations in SMPTE RP 166-1995: 'Critical Viewing Conditions For Evaluation Of Color Television Pictures' are specifically for direct view monitor environments. Front projection systems are another animal, with unique requirements. What is common between the two types of display systems is the viewer. Therefore, some characteristics of the room environment will have a different effect upon the two display types but a similar effect upon the person using the system.

Dedicated home theater rooms allow for decor that will not diminish or contaminate the image on the screen. Multi-purpose rooms usually present conflicting priorities to acheiving ultimate picture quality. Decor in multi-use rooms may not allow for ultra dark colors. Unfortunately, most of the photos seen in home theater magazines, even of dedicated theaters, depict compromised viewing environments. Consumers get the wrong image in their mind of what consititutes a correctly designed theater room, in which system performance is the top priority. If what the room looks like with all the lights on is the greater priority, then usually both picture and sound quality will suffer. Overriding priorities can be perfectly legitimate. After all, the owner of the room is the one to make the final call.

These are issues that even many professionals do not fully understand. If home theater professionals don't sufficiently understand the impact of the viewing environment upon system performance, how on earth can the typical consumer have a clue about what is correct? The complexity of these issues is due to the wide variety of display types, room configurations, and client preferences. A comprehensive understanding of the fundamental principles of acoustics, imaging science, display standards and human perceptual characteristics is necessary to design a well integrated home theater system that performs optimally. These issues apply to every system design, regardless of budget.

Front projection systems must have dark, neutral, or nearly neutral room surfaces for the best picture to be presented on the screen. The display system in the room in the photographs above is seriously compromised. However, it's a multi-purpose room. There may be conflicting priorities that justify the user's choice of all the bright, reflective surfaces. Unfortunately, too many consumers make design compromises without being told or understanding the consequences to picture and sound performance.

There's a big difference between a do-it-yourself-er, with the best of intentions, doing the work, versus understanding all the underlying principles involved in making correct design decisions. If a DIY is going to be spending thousands of dollars on construction materials, electronics, and software, doesn't it make sense to spend at least a couple hundred dollars to bring a professional in for a couple of hours to see the room and make recommendations? Forums have value but only up to a point. The room is no less critical to system performance than a projector or speaker system. Even less understood is the importance of the listener/viewer as a system component.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## Sonnie

Hey Alan and welcome to the Shack!

You sound like the kind of guy we need hangin' around more often.


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## Phil M

Alan Brown said:


> This is my first post. Hi, to all.
> 
> Room conditions affect both the physical behavior of the display system and the perception of the viewer. Color of decor is a critical characteristic of viewing environment conditions. The recommendations in SMPTE RP 166-1995: 'Critical Viewing Conditions For Evaluation Of Color Television Pictures' are specifically for direct view monitor environments. Front projection systems are another animal, with unique requirements. What is common between the two types of display systems is the viewer. Therefore, some characteristics of the room environment will have a different effect upon the two display types but a similar effect upon the person using the system.
> 
> Dedicated home theater rooms allow for decor that will not diminish or contaminate the image on the screen. Multi-purpose rooms usually present conflicting priorities to acheiving ultimate picture quality. Decor in multi-use rooms may not allow for ultra dark colors. Unfortunately, most of the photos seen in home theater magazines, even of dedicated theaters, depict compromised viewing environments. Consumers get the wrong image in their mind of what consititutes a correctly designed theater room, in which system performance is the top priority. If what the room looks like with all the lights on is the greater priority, then usually both picture and sound quality will suffer.
> 
> These are issues that even many professionals do not fully understand. If home theater professionals don't sufficiently understand the impact of the viewing environment upon system performance, how on earth can the typical consumer have a clue about what is correct? The complexity of these issues is due to the wide variety of display types, room configurations, and client preferences. A comprehensive understanding of the fundamental principles of acoustics, imaging science, display standards and human perceptual characteristics is necessary to design a well integrated home theater system that performs optimally. These issues apply to every system design, regardless of budget.
> 
> Front projection systems must have dark, neutral, or nearly neutral room surfaces for the best picture to be presented on the screen. The display system in the room in the photographs above is seriously compromised. However, it's a multi-purpose room. There may be conflicting priorities that justify the user's choice of all the bright, reflective surfaces. Unfortunately, too many consumers make design compromises without being told or understanding the consequences to picture and sound performance.
> 
> There's a big difference between a do-it-yourself-er doing the work and understanding all the underlying principles involved in making correct design decisions. If a DIY is going to be spending thousands of dollars on construction materials, electronics, and software, doesn't it make sense to spend at least a couple hundred dollars to bring a professional in for a couple of hours to see the room and make recommendations? Forums have value but only up to a point. The room is no less critical to system performance than a projector or speaker system. Even less understood is the importance of the listener/viewer as a system component.
> 
> Best regards and beautiful pictures,
> Alan Brown, President
> CinemaQuest, Inc.
> ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA
> 
> "Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"



Alan, couldn't agree more with what you said, and that's what motivated me to kick this thread off. It's a personal choice at the end of the day, but if you spend $$$$$$$$ on equipment then its a pity not to extract its full potential by messing up the environment. I've got a few concerns/issues/experiences on 'professionals' - when I look at awards given to professional installers by the press, they are typically given to 'novel' designs which are typically bright colors - the dealers I know do not want to pass on their knowledge base to the DIY community for a relatively small return, and want to make money on installation and equipment (they have to stay in business) - and the DIY community are reluctant to spend money on intangibles such as advice and calibration (the tendency is to spend as much as possible on better equipment). For example when my wife sees a check exchanged for a box she understands it, but when a guy turns up with a test disc/tripod'/light meter and walks away with a check she thinks I'm nuts. 
I hope you can help change our thinking, and at the same time help us find the right resources.


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## Alan Brown

Phil M,



> Before painting my HT room I had seen a few dealer demo rooms that looked great, but painted in very strong colors - such as deep reds/burgundy etc. It struck me that this would shift the color balance/perception or whatever the correct technical term is. So finished up using a grey similar to the background on this forum for my room. Since then I've seen light greens, bright blues....
> So my questions are - does wall color make a difference to the projected image, and if it does what color(s) should be used?


The dark burgundies can be acceptable, since it's not a vivid hue. Cherry red would be a no no. Neutral is better and black is best for strict image performance. Few of us want a totally black room. It's difficult to illuminate such a room for cleaning, finding your wallet, or your sandwich, etc. Even a flat black painted ceiling reflects some light! Try white! A light colored room will ruin a decent front projected image. There's no escaping the laws of physics. Even with no other light in the room, the light coming off the screen will bounce off the walls and reflect back onto the screen. This will turn black to gray and reduce color saturation. If major room decor elements are a vivid color, the light reflected by those elements will tint the screen. As a colleague said recently, it's like reproducing a favorite painting on tinted paper. Who would consider for a moment having a loved one's photo printed on green or yellow tinted paper?

Fabric is great to add some subdued color, since it absorbs more light than a painted surface. Small areas can be a bright color for accent in the room. Something like accessory items or trim can add interest without being a threat to image performance. A little extra thought, imagination and design innovation can do wonders for a dark room. Hidden "wash" lighting can turn a neutral gray (American English spelling) wall into any color you want when not projecting an image on the screen. Simply fade out the colored lighting when it's time to fire up the projector. This technique works for multi-purpose rooms with other types of display devices as well.

Actually this thread could get moved to the new 'Design/Viewing Environment' section of the forum.



> the dealers I know do not want to pass on their knowledge base to the DIY community for a relatively small return, and want to make money on installation and equipment (they have to stay in business) - and the DIY community are reluctant to spend money on intangibles such as advice and calibration (the tendency is to spend as much as possible on better equipment)


I make good money on design consulting and make DIYs happy. Happy customers send referrals and most buy hardware from me as well. Good will is in short supply in our culture today.

The DIY community is fundamentally lacking in understanding of how the wrong colors can affect picture quality. I welcome any questions about what may be appropriate. That's also why these forums exist. I'll justify my suggestions with imaging science principles. Use discretion in following others' opinions. Just because something worked for someone else in their system, doesn't mean it's best for another. How do you judge what's best? Intuition? Guesswork? Dart board? Whim, fad, fashion, psychic ability? When I can point you to a document from an industry authority, I will.


Consulting time from a pro is a wise investment. Ethical industry professionals constantly seek continuing education from experts. That's one function of CEDIA. Who pays for that time away from their business, the travel, the class fees, lodging? The government? Santa? Those aren't "intangibles" and have to be compensated for. If you value experienced, formally trained, certified professional advice, you should be glad to pay for it. If you have more time than money, then you'll have to acquire the knowledge yourself. Not everyone has the same aptitude and talent, however. Just because you have an interest and passion for something doesn't guarantee you also have the aptitude to be proficient at that endeavor. How many electric guitars get purchased and later just stored in attics? It may even be therapeutic to have a hobby but practice doesn't always make perfect. 

"Better equipment" can be, and frequently is, rendered seriously compromised by poor installation, problematic room acoustics, conflicting viewing environment conditions, etc. There's no replacement for education and successful experience. Investing in certified expert advice can help you make better equipment decisions and avoid regrets from improper room design. 



> For example when my wife sees a check exchanged for a box she understands it, but when a guy turns up with a test disc/tripod'/light meter and walks away with a check she thinks I'm nuts.


How much money is spent in this culture on diet books, fashion magazines, relationship guides, wrinkle creams, etc., etc.? How about the "beauty secrets" of home theater? The difference is, our "intangibles" are based upon decades of proven imaging science and display industry standards. 

Many people doubt that TV programs can be considered art. Cinema is widely acknowledged as a legitimate art form. Art should elevate, move and inspire the soul. The greater the enjoyment, the more beneficial a work of art becomes. Constructive stimulation of the pleasure centers in our brain enhances our sense of well being and actually produces a stronger immune system. That's a scientific fact and has been documented medically in recent years. One of the wisest men said thousands of years ago, "A merry heart doeth good like a medicine." Proverbs 17:27.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## toecheese

_"The room is no less critical to system performance than a projector or speaker system. "

_
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to say "No".

Having had two different projector systems, with two different speaker systems- in two different rooms. The room had far less of an effect on 'system performance' than either of those.

I believe room color and treatment to be important, but it is a finishing touch, the last 10%- if that.


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## Alan Brown

I believe you have misundertood my statement. The degree of impact will vary from room to room, but the room conditions have to be considered in a well integrated system design. It is essential for getting the most performance from either the display or the audio equipment. There is no display or speaker system that is immune to room conditions. Room interaction and hardware performance cannot be separated in proper system design theory and practice without consequence. I can't think of any exceptions to that principle. That was my meaning by using "critical". You may have thought I meant dominant or prominent.


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## toecheese

_*"The room is no less critical to system performance than a projector or speaker system. "*_

Well, we can argue semantics, but I interpreted your statement as assigning the same weight (critical has a strong meaning) to the room as the projector or speakers. Recall that we're talking colors in this thread.

My '10%' figure is my own weighting of what I thought room color and minor treatments would be to the overall experience: if that. I was already enjoying movies with good sound and picture in an unpainted room without carpet. Turn this around- my room could have been acousticly perfect and color neutral to some TV spec, and just wouldn't be enjoyable with **** speakers and projector.

Throwing 'critical' around might be good for the AV business, but room color certainly doesn't have the same weight as the speakers chosen.

I'm not trying to start an argument- and no one wants a typical AV forum 'discussion' by going off topic- but that kind of thing starts with hyperbole.

You've explained yourself better in your follow up. Thank you.


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## Phil M

My observations are that the higher up the performance chain you go, and you start to become more critical of small incremental changes in the performance of your equipment, you then start to gravitate towards the environment for performance enhancements.
When visiting my HiFi dealer (mostly Musical Fidelity/Classe/B&W) his equipment always sounded better than when I tried it at home, and it was significantly better. I discovered why - he had $30k of room treatment.
When I moved my HiFi from an open plan environment to a custom built room with wall and corner treatment the system sounded completely different. So no doubt the room is a key component in your system, too what extent I can't really answer.


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## Alan Brown

Toecheese,



> You've explained yourself better in your follow up. Thank you.


You're welcome. I understand fully that sometimes we all have difficulty following the context of a discussion. Your understanding and learning are my goal, so I don't mind elaborating.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## Alan Brown

Phil M,



> My observations are that the higher up the performance chain you go, and you start to become more critical of small incremental changes in the performance of your equipment, you then start to gravitate towards the environment for performance enhancements.


I have observed the same behavior among home theater consumers in general. Perhaps as the consumer matures, learns more, experiences more, his sense of value changes and can justify to himself the more expensive components. Unfortunately, poor room conditions can mask or diminish what performance is obtainable from even inexpensive gear. Lower performance equipment can be rendered even lower yet in performance. There is no justification to ignore environmental conditions, once an understanding has been reached of how to make improvements. Even folks on a tight budget can do simple things to improve their enjoyment of the system they have. Many techniques, such as speaker orientation, seating distance, and choosing the right color of paint, don't cost anything.


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## toecheese

Alan Brown said:


> You're welcome. I understand fully that sometimes we all have difficulty following the context of a discussion.


Since we were talking about room colors, I wasn't following the specs point. 



> critical has a strong meaning
> 
> "Critical" also has other meanings, such as "essential," as determined by the context. In this topic it has a very precise meaning, as used by SMPTE RP166, which I cited. I said what I meant, and explained what I meant. Reading more weight into the term was your decision.


Your statement: "The room is no less critical to system performance than a projector or speaker system." ...did not seem to me to spin what you meant by 'critical'. 

Some of us don't have the choice of a room, but we do have choices of projector, speaker... and color.


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## Steve Williamson

:rofl: :rofl: , I like PINK, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## Phil M

Steve Williamson said:


> :rofl: :rofl: , I like PINK, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Try telling that to your mates in the pub:duck:


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## Alan Brown

Toecheese,

Please accept my public appology for offending you. I have a bad habit of being too blunt. Sonnie has helped me undersand how to be a better moderator on his forum.:nono: He suggested that I edit my previous posts to make my points more graciously. Hopefully, you will find my comments less clumsy and rude.

Sonnie also suggested I shorten my responses to posts. That'll be a significant challenge for me, but I'll give it my best shot.

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## toecheese

Steve Williamson said:


> :rofl: :rofl: , I like PINK, :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



*dark* pink is fine. ;-)


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## toecheese

Alan Brown said:


> Toecheese,
> 
> Please accept my public appology for offending you.


Bah, I'm easily offended ;-) No worries.

And **** it- watching Underworld Evolution (nice movie!) on my HT had me looking at the durn ceiling wondering if I should paint at least part of it darker. Just like after reading that 'common problems with dvd players' with artifacts made me go get a new player, that light ceiling is going to make me itch.. I know it.


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## Tommy

Alan Brown said:


> The dark burgundies can be acceptable, since it's not a vivid hue. Cherry red would be a no no. Neutral is better and black is best for strict image performance. Few of us want a totally black room.


Alan can you clarify this statement? It sounds as if your saying a dark burgundy is barely acceptable but not optimal and my understanding is that a dark burgundy would be about the best besides if I painted the whole room black. I can’t picture say a neutral grey as better for reflection then a dark burgundy. What colors to you suggest and if you have any pictures for an example, please post them.


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## Alan Brown

Tommy,

Here's the pertinent details from another thread that should help.



> What SMPTE has recommended for additional colors in an ideal viewing environment are the "nearly neutrals" from the Munsell Color Order System. These colors are pastels and "nearly whites." You probably won't find this set of Munsell references very easily. I have a book of reference color samples but they're over $500.00 just for the nearly neutrals and nearly whites, with an incomplete set of neutrals in the back.
> 
> The nearly neutrals start out as a pale pastel but extend in value (light to dark) all the way into some pretty dark shades. As they darken they don't increase much in chroma (richness of color) but look more like increased amounts of black are added to the mix. Burgundy can be a nearly neutral. This gives them a gray-ish character so that they don't turn vivid color shades. The entire color spectrum is represented.
> 
> Munsell developed the original color order system that Pantone and other subsequent systems are based upon. This was over 100 years ago. Therefore, there are many sources for this category of colors.
> 
> Bright or vivid colors can be used as accents in a video viewing environment, but the dominant color scheme should be neutral to nearly neutral. Again, this methodology is for rooms where image fidelity and color accuracy in the video picture is top priority.
> 
> With front projection theaters, the front wall can have a little color in it as long as it's darker. When the lights go out, and the screen lights up, it will appear to be black. This is acceptable since the light coming off of the screen never shines onto the front wall. An exception would be where the ceiling is white or another boundary near the front wall is light enough to bounce light from the screen onto the front wall.
> 
> Don't use what you see in actual theaters as your guide. Use the documented SMPTE standards and practices. There are plenty of mistakes made in public venues or magazine photos. The THX Theater Alignment Program (TAP) recommendations are based upon SMPTE's work. If you don't mind a contaminated screen image, do whatever you want.


Brown tones have less vivid hue in them than the reds (as in burgundy), so they work well as an alternative to an ideal gray. There are low-rez photos of a Munsell Book Of Color- Nearly Neutrals Matte Edition and a Munsell Neutral Value Scale fan deck on my web site: http://www.cinemaquestinc.com/ideal_viewing.htm .

Here's a slightly better photo of some pages from the nearly neutrals book. The link is from the Munsell section of GretagMacbeth's web site: http://www.gretagmacbeth.com/index/...designers/products_munsell-nearlyneutrals.htm .

If your local paint store has a "nearly neutrals" section of paint chips, they're probably very similar. Make sure you use flat paint and add neutral black to darken. Fabric is great for covering walls, but costly. 

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## Guest

I have a TON of wood work in my basement all done in a satin finish - no problem there. The walls are a deep, deep burgandy and the carpets will be a dark Navy blue - no problem there. I am completely satisfied with the wall colors BUT would STRONGLY consider a color other than white for the ceiling. My ceiling is currently white and it SUCKS!! I am concerned that people will smack their heads on the lower part of the ceiling (where I had to cover up the HVAC ducts) if I painted that area black. I am thinking about covering the sheetrock with black (or a really dark color) felt and passing out a lot of aspirin!:devil:


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## Tommy

Timps, you have pictues to post yet?


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## Guest

Tommy said:


> Timps, you have pictues to post yet?



I was waiting until I finished the painting and was hoping to have the carpet in but I just found out the run date on the carpet was pushed out another week by the mill making the earliest date for install the end of July! The painting is not yet done because I have installed the projector and screen and can't stop watching it!!!!! Word to the wise - if you EVER want to finish your projects, DO NOT INSTALL PROJECTOR, SCREEN AND EQUIPMENT UNTIL AFTER YOU ARE DONE !!!:rofl:


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## Tommy

I dont even have the sheetrock up yet, but the projector and stuff is all hooked up...


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## Sonnie

So IOW, timps is saying you are not wise... lol

Hey timps and welcome to the Shack! Glad to see you finally posting.


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## Guest

Good to be here - I'm here till Thursday - try the veal.

I hope to post some pictures of my theater, pool table, bar, poker table room soon. Might need some help in doing that though. Any takers on offering advice? You will see how nice and dark the room can be without giving up the color aspect.


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## Tommy

timps said:


> Good to be here - I'm here till Thursday - try the veal.
> 
> I hope to post some pictures of my theater, pool table, bar, poker table room soon. Might need some help in doing that though. Any takers on offering advice? You will see how nice and dark the room can be without giving up the color aspect.


Help what, posting the pictures? Email them to me and I'll put them on my webspace to link in the posts for you


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## Guest

As ironic as it sounds, I am not very computer savy even though I use one every day! I have a buddy that is a computer guru and I am sure that he could help but I hate going to him with EVERY computer question that I have!


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## Tommy

Are you able to email pictures or do you need help with that?


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## Guest

I should be OK with emailing them!


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## Tommy

ok I pm'd you my email address, send them to me there


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## Phil M

I've just painted the front half of my ceiling matt black, has it made a difference - well the color was neutral before, so it hasn't had any impact on color balance but has significantly reduced the reflected light I used to get. Now I'm off to buy a black area rug to stop the sunburn from the grey carpet. :T 

Sonnie, I went to get a roller from Home Depot yesterday and discovered a cloud painting kit. I liked Alans idea but knew you couldn't find anyone in LA that could spell mural. Take a look:

http://www.woolie.com/products.htm


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## Sonnie

Hmmm... 25 bucks. I like the pair of feathers for 4 bucks...











I could start a business at 2 bucks a feather. We have hundreds in our goose pen every year.


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## Alaric

Hi Guys,

I have a dedicated room, it is a Home Theater and that is it, well maybe with a bit of music. The room was an odd extension to the house and iradicated the back garden, it has a factory at the back (party wall), an house converted to offices on the left and a builders merchants on the right. As of a weekend/evening there is no one arround for at least a 100yrds in any direction, it is also at the back of the house and the bedrooms are at the front two floors up, so no chance of disturbing anyone. It had a roof light and a pair of patio doors and that was all for windows. It was an L shape to start with. Converting to a rectangle of good proportions (i looked at room ratios and picked a close one) gave a kit area and refreshment area (with the patio doors). The ceiling and external flat roof needed re-doing anyway so a inch or so lower hit the ratio and got rid of the rooflight. As such an excelent room for a HT with fully controled light. I run a CRT projector and when a film is showing the room is completely dark, i don't keep any lights on at all.

We've painted the main walls and ceiling with a nuteral flat matt grey paint. A guy (Gary IIRC) ages ago on a news group i was on got Dulux to match Kodak 18% grey to a paint colour (6000N in the UK, maybe the same US) which is the ceiling and all of the walls. Its a very recessive colour that dipps to black without light on it. 

A neuteral flat black would probably be the most ideal, but i've seen black rooms and they are quite opresive and i wanted a room that was good to be in.

The carpet is a very deep pile grey/black mix without any paterning, it has a hessian underlay which is very sound absorbant.

Seats are two laz-y-boy matinee black leather cinema style recliners for the front row and three red cinema style flip up seats at the back.

The boxing and carved panels make quite a feature and these are also painted grey, but will end up with some darker grey and black highlights for a stone like effect that is also picture friendly.

You do not really want bright / strong colours as they will affect the picture, you can adjust for some tint if you grey scale calibrate, but the less you have to compensate then the more acurate your end result will be.

You can also increase your perception of contrast ratios by shrouding the screen in a deep black light absorbing velvet, a few inches around the screen can really make a difference from what i've heard (yet to get that far).

Http://www.the-dreaming.com - Should prove you can have a stunning room, with inviting decor and still be movie centric !


Cya,
Lee


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## Guest

The darker and flatter the better! It all about not detracting from the immersive aspect of theaters. No outside noises or lighting will be tolerated! I know going all black is a tough pill to swallow. Most darker colors, especially the red-based colors go black in the absence of light, so that's always a good choice.


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## Alan Brown

> Most darker colors, especially the red-based colors go black in the absence of light, so that's always a good choice.


It's helpful to remember that a theater in use can have an significant amount of light in it. The screen will illuminate the entire room during bright scenes. Be cautious about the use of red as a dominant color in a front projection theater. How rich the red and where it's used are important. Richly colored room surfaces can contaminate the image being projected if enough light reflects back onto the screen during brighter scenes. 

There is a tradition in theater decor that rich red velvets, carpets and velours impart a sense of excitement, luxury, and departure from life's mundane normality. This tradition began in live performance theaters. Such methodology was intended to provide enhanced enticing escapism for the weary masses. An audience inspired with awe and wonder prior to the performance was deemed better prepared for the main attraction. Many of those classic "palace" style theaters were later converted to film exhibition houses. The Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers (SMPTE) didn't mature until decades later. 

SMPTE's human factors research over the years has developed standards and practices in theater design for optimum motion picture image and sound performance. What one sees in practice in commercial theaters or photos in home theater magazines may or may not be representative of imaging industry recommended standards and practices. A well-integrated, holistic, system design philosophy will adhere to the SMPTE standards. THX certification was one attempt at providing consulting services and quality assurance to the film exhibition industry. All of THX, Ltd.'s certification programs today are founded upon industry standards and solid engineering theory and practice.

Dominant colors in a home theater should be neutral to nearly neutral. Vivid or rich colors and reflective surfaces should be limited to use as accents and with knowlegable discretion. Conventional interior decorating philosophies can actually diminish home theater system performance when it comes time to use the room for its intended purpose. Home theater viewing environment design is not "business as usual."

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
ISF, THX, SMPTE, CEDIA

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## Phil M

Well Alan when I started this off I believed I was going in the right direction with my grey walls/ceiling/carpet and charcoal diffusers.
I've recently painted the first half of my ceiling matt black (a boxed in RSJ makes a nice transition) and put a black area rug down in front of the screen. I'll get some before and after pics posted.
Some of us do listen.

NB
What got me started on this was seeing the 'industry' giving awards for creative designs - but destructive from maximising audio and video performance.


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## Matteo

I think part of the equation is balancing what you want ( a dedicated, kick-butt HT) vs. what you can have (a wife/gf who still loves you and gives her 2Cents) vs. cost. You really have to balance it all out. Do you need every ounce of perfection out of your HT, or are you going to be happy with a 70% perfect room that still makes your local theater look like Sesame Street? Some people want the very best and spend a good part of their lives and fortune seeking that. Paint isn't too expensive, but I have seen some ugly, ugly rooms that are great for the cinema, but **** for entertaining. Like everyone else here has said, stick with the flat, darker colors. See how you like it. Keep making changes like you are, but keep it realistic.
Roly


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## Tommy

Still waiting for the drywall to get completly finished but we picked up the paint for the room, black and a dark maroon


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## vitod

My place.


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## Phil M

Looks great, when can I come over?


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## vitod

Where are you located?


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## Chrisbee

My modest CRT hardly counts as a real HT but by coincidence we have just replaced the original cream curtains behind my TV and stereo speakers. This curtain hides a row of bookshelves which always looked far too fussy and distracting when listening to music. Not so much of a problem with films with the lights off but the moment we switched on any lighting there was the background competing for attention. 

The red curtaining we have now is actually much darker than the image in my sig. The flash lifted the brightness of the red considerably even though it was set to Low. The red looks even darker in normal daylight without sunshine.

My point? (finally!) Is that even dark red is just not relaxing. It glows and sucks at your eyeballs as you try to ignore it. Red is antisocial and will lead to aggression and antisocial behaviour. God help your neighbour if he turns up and asks you to turn it down! :devil: 

Black is awful! I painted my bedroom matt black as a kid just for fun. I know. I know. I was a wierd kid too. Or just ahead of my time?  

I'm now looking for some mid to dark green plain material. Green is surely the colour of choice? For millions of years we have been wandering through a green world. Our instinctive survival skills are finely honed to seek detail and movement within a green background. We go to green spaces to relax. People who have green environments have fewer sick days and are generally much happier than those who live in grey cities.

Our last listening room was painted flat light green with mid green detail and it was superbly relaxing. Even the view through the large windows behind the speakers was all green grass and trees. 

Downside: (There's always a downside!) I would sometimes fall asleeep in the middle of an LP even when the music was playing loudly.


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## Sonnie

That's money green there... that's what that is.

Fell asleep... :rofl:


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## dynamowhum

I painted all my walls red, took 6 coats too. I call it Never Again Red because of all the work involved. My screen wall will be a procenium with the screen recessed about 6" to keep reflections down. The wall will be covered with black speaker grill cloth other than the acoustically transparent screen section. Behind the false wall will be a couple bass traps and wall absorption along with the speakers of course. My floors are ceramic tile but my ceiling will have acoustical treatment and be covered in black polyester batting. Will give pictures when complete. Hopefully by next spring maybe summer. Cheers


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## Guest

Hi Sonnie, thanks, I'm kind of looking around to check color combos for a HT


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## Tommy

Vitod, excellent looking pictures and it appears you may be semi-local to me. Is there a thread set up for your HT room?


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## Anthony

I know it's not ideal, but my theater is a hunter green split with a white top (above the chair rail) and ceiling. The white is a flat to eggshell (whatever the sheen is right above flat) and the green is Behr sandwash. Really sucks in the light. It looks much darker and ZERO glare reflections off of it.

There's no chair rail on the projection wall and it's entirely hunter green, so there's nothing bright up front competing with the screen.

But since the room is also a darts alley, bar, and the walkout to the back yard, we had to keep it looking more normal and less like a cave (I can do that at the next house, I keep telling myself).


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## John Simpson

Great post Alan, and welcome!

Originally I planned on painting the walls of our dedicated HT room flat blacks and greys, but recently someone put me onto velour wallpaper (Is that a term they use in the US? It has a suede finish.).

I imagine that if you used a very dark velour wallpaper (much like the material used on fixed-screen frames) there'd be very little light reflection.


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## Tommy

I've read and looked into the possibility of carpeting the walls but found out it had very negative effects to the sound system in the room. I wonder if wall paper with this type of finish may have the same results...


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## salvasol

Tommy said:


> I've read and looked into the possibility of carpeting the walls but found out it had very negative effects to the sound system in the room. I wonder if wall paper with this type of finish may have the same results...



What kind of carpet are you planning to use???? 
My HT room has carpet from floor to chair rail (about 36") :yes::yes::yes: ... When I was building the room I was planning to use regular carpet, but I found a special carpet here http://www.acousticalsolutions.com/iwwida.pvx?;products_no_tree?comp=ASI (just look under fabrics)

I haven't used REW to measure my room response ... but to my ears, sound good :yes::yes::yes:


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## John Simpson

Negative effects from using carpet? Has anyone else heard about this? (This was actually another idea I was throwing around.)

I'd assumed that, because real cinemas have thick curtains on the walls, carpet would be good on HT room walls. Does the sound work differently in a HT setup? The only reason I could think of is that there needs to be some sort of reflectivity to aid immersion...


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## MikeSp

After reading every single posting, with several technical ones going right over my head:daydream:, I am wondering about ye olde 18% Kodak grey color for walls and ceiling (or slightly darker) as a WAF consideration since black is out of the question -- IS this 18% grey considered neutral in the terms used for color standards of HT (it is considered neutral in photography and I use it in digital photography)??? :scratch: 

Thoughts, opinions?

MikeSp


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## ACGREEN

Phil, that is some nice gear. But you should have put some of that money into a new couch!


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## ACGREEN

Does anyone have any expeirence hanging fabric (or something else) on the ceiling for sme purpose as the grey paint. My theater is not in a dedicated room and I can not bring myself to paint the ceiling. I am thinking about hanging some acoustical panels on the ceiling above the screen which should serve the same purpose. 
I am also going to use acoustical panels and a rug to darken the walls and the ceiling. Thanks for the information on the grey paint as I will paint the back wall the greay color.


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## Chrisbee

18% grey is much the same as the palm of your hand.
Which is why you used to see photographers pointing their cameras at their hands to guage the light levels falling on a subject.

I wonder why HT fans don't follow the optical guys and have thin black baffles around the screen. If reflected light can't reach your eye then the baffles are working.

Here's a crude drawing. No, not a rude drawing! :rolleyesno:


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## John Simpson

Hmmm... maybe because it would look ugly Chris? :innocent:

We used to actually make free-standing posters for conventions etc that could do that job. They were printed on a type of woven fabric-paper, and I guess you could print them out in matt black. Each had their own aluminium support frame.

An interesting (if expensive) experiment! :spend:


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## robk_11

I just started painting my walls. I am using "retro colonial blue" which is a blue gray color. I couldn't go with anything too dark. I don't know why but i value asthetics in a room. Hopefully soon I can post some pics of my finished room.


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## Guest

I'm a fan of a black front wall to mount the projector on. When the lights go out... you are not distracted by anything else.

Frank


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## goose

I just painted mine a sea blue.


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## tonyvdb

My wall that I have the screen painted on is a dark blue, flat finish. With the lights off I hardly see it. My wife hated the dark color but now she says it works well when watching movies.


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## tonyvdb

John Simpson said:


> Negative effects from using carpet? Has anyone else heard about this? (This was actually another idea I was throwing around.)


I found that using drywall on the lower half of the wall and black carpet underlay (found at Home depot) on the top half making sure the walls were filled with fiberglass insulation worked really well. I have nearly a perfect flat response after running a 3rd octave spectrum annaliser test. My room is 15' wide 32' long and 8.5' high.


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## Guest

So now you guys all have me worried! I was going to hang some dark curtains behind my screen and never really considered that the walls might have much impact on the viewing environment. (All good information, I just hadn't considered it!) In the interests of actually getting done, I had decided (as of today) to skip the curtain behind the screen and just leave the painted wall. Now I'm wondering if it will be distracting?

My walls are also a medium colour, which I hope will be ok. One thing that I apparently did right was to paint the ceiling a flat midnight blue. Two days that I'm not eager to repeat any time soon....

I'd be interested in opinions on the background wall and potential distraction from anyone who's been through this situation.

Some photos of my project are here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mifydnu/sets/72157600213855614/

I'm not sure how to link to just the last posted photos, so thanks in advance to anyone who's willing to wade through all the photos and provide any advice.

Cheers
Andy


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## Sprtex

Andy, 

That's an awesome media room you've built. You've definitely put a lot of thought into planning and your wood working skills are much better than the average DIY'fer...My question is the use of fiberglass insulation - will it actually help in dampening any noise transferernce? 

As for the colors, your stain and rock combination makes for a very classy build - nice work.


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## goose

Phil M said:


> Before painting my HT room I had seen a few dealer demo rooms that looked great, but painted in very strong colors - such as deep reds/burgundy etc. It struck me that this would shift the color balance/perception or whatever the correct technical term is. So finished up using a grey similar to the background on this forum for my room. Since then I've seen light greens, bright blues....
> So my questions are - does wall color make a difference to the projected image, and if it does what color(s) should be used?




Very nice room. :T


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## Guest

Hi Tony,

Thanks for the compliment. Always nice to hear appreciation of one's work! In answer to your question, I think anything that diffuses sound will decrease transmission, but to what extent fiberglass insulation will reduce sound pollution in the rest of the house, I don't know. Honestly, it's all I could afford. I have 6 rooms (not including two bathrooms) to finish out in my basement so cost is an issue for everything!

On the bright side, part of my decision to use just normal insulation is that the theater is underground on two sides, it's in the opposite corner of the house from the master bdrm on the main floor, all other bedrooms are on the second floor, and only the dining room is directly above the theater.

I just hooked up the projector and audio last night for a test run and while you can hear the theater from the dining room, the rest of the house is pretty free of noise bleed. (The sub-woofer does make itself felt a bit, but not bad).

Hooking up the projector did answer one question for me - the light coloured walls are not a problem at all. While they may not be 'optimal' for light dynamics, they are pretty good for my enjoyment of the room. :yes:


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## John Simpson

Yeah, that's shaping up to be spectacular, Mif -- good job!

That stone veneer you're using... is it Eldorado stone? We're about to start building, and will be using stone veneer extensively. As we're doing the stone ourselves, I'm keen to hear about other experiences (and I saw your note about screwing the wire support to the wall -- point well taken!).

I wouldn't worry too much about the sound properties of the insulation -- you can always add diffuser/absorption panels once the room's complete.


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## Sonnie

Andy... I would start a new thread so that it gets more attention and not get bogged down in this thread where it will be off topic... :T

And wow... that will be an awful lot of pics to go through for anyone to figure out where to help you. Your best bet is to upload your last few pics to our Image Gallery and link them from there to your new thread post.


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## Guest

At Sonnie's request, I've moved the stone bit of this discussion to a new thread. It's here: 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...n-construction/7194-stone-veneer-theater.html

I hope I did that right.

With respect to getting help, well, too late now! I'm kind of impatient so I just hooked everything up and it all looks fine. I think some curtains on the side might help a bit but other than that I'm good to go. Again, sorry for all the pics. I will use a bit more discretion next time and perhaps avail myself of the gallery option on the forum site.

Cheers
Andy


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## thewire

I was making some various things black in the dedicated theater room but my father wanted everything black and he only gets to enjoy it on the weekends for some years to come so it will be all black. Track lighting is later. I need to put that bulb in some more further.

photo -


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## Scuba Diver

I like dark colors. I would have painted the room black if my wife would have let me. I did paint the walls around and to the sides of the screen black. Dark colors helps me focus on the picture not the walls and decor.


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## Guest

I did mine in Valspar Shark Fin grey. Nice greyish blue. 

l new to the forum but in the last leg of finishing my theater so I thought I would toss in my .02. It took me about three months to figure out what color as I read a lot of stuff here and else where about what and why and how to paint the room. The shark fin was the first color that I found that was both pleasing and did not "appear" to affect the screen at all color wise ( i have a cheap mustang screen that came with the projector) Everything in my room is satin finish. that includes the hardwood floors. 

Short take is go with something that you like cause your going to have to look at it a lot. Just don't let your wife tell you it has to be all white.


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## salvasol

S2roush said:


> ... Just don't let your wife tell you it has to be all white.


Why not??? ... She can tell you, but another thing is painting the room white :bigsmile:

Or, you can paint it black ... then tell her that is a dirty white :rofl2:


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## Blaser

I have chosen very dark (neutral) grey for my HT, Front wall is black cloth already. It is of paramount importance to minimise light reflection that will wash out the blacks on the screen. I couldn't imagine how much black depth I was losing while my HT ceiling and walls were white and light yellow respectively.


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## Cyphon

I had originally planned to paint mine all dark (it's kind of a dark, charcoal black), but after viewing different home theater galleries on the web I was inspired to change it up a bit. Several reasons for this, I really didn't want a "cave" feeling in the room, and the way the floorplan is layed out for the viewing distance of the projector and screen, there's room for other stuff too. Poker table, bar stools, whatever. I kept the same dark color I had originally picked (I don't have the exact color name on me sorry, it's a SW brand) but I put that color on the same wall where the screen will be, which continues past the equipment cabinet, and around the corner to the adjoining wall with the bathroom entry. Everything else, cabinets, trim, and the remainder of the walls is Khaki Shade. Antique White is on the ceiling, and there will be a tannish, light brown carpet installed this week. I think with the eleven 3" can lights I have installed it really attributes to the ambiance of a home theater... but can also be used for other entertainment purposes (but the wife knows there's no if's about it - it's a media room first and foremost ). So here are some pics, with the black granite tile on the bar as current as yesterday:

View from the stairway entry
 

This is where the screen will go


View from the planned seating area


View towards entry (the door on the right goes out to a sunroom that overlooks the backyard)


And here are some shots with the lighting installed
 

 

This is what it _used_ to look like when we bought it :O


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## suniil

a bit unusual colour 

*front view*










*rear view*


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## Cyphon

I like it!


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## Maxman

Hi, If you're planning to paint an home, you'll probably want to use a historically accurate color scheme. You can hire a pro to analyze old paint chips and recreate the original color. Thanks!
__________________


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