# Denon AVR-4520CI Official Owners, Discussion and Information Thread



## Jungle Jack

Here is the Denon USA Press Release for the forthcoming AVR-4311/4810 tweener. I did not realize that Bain Capital owns D&M. So far the only Denon USA info is this PDF which I converted to a Word Document.

*"DENON INTRODUCES 9.2-CHANNEL AVR-4520CI – NEW “IN-COMMAND SERIES” FLAGSHIP RECEIVER, REINFORCES COMPANY’S COMMITMENT TO INNOVATION, PERFORMANCE AND EASE OF USE*

“Performance is Everything”; New Denon Flagship Features Apple's AirPlay and Epitomizes the Company’s Leadership and Expertise in Advanced Home Entertainment

*Indianapolis, IN, September 5, 2012* – Denon Electronics, a premier manufacturer of high-quality home entertainment components, is proud to announce the launch of its flagship In-Command® AV receiver, the 9.2-channel AVR-4520CI ($2,499.99).The powerful AV receiver offers users an unprecedented level of expandability, networking options and Internet connectivity. The AVR-4520CI features Apple’s AirPlay, allowing users to stream their iTunes music whether from Mac or PC, as well as music stored on their iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch.*

Reflecting the D+M Group’s guiding philosophy, “Performance is Everything,” the Denon flagship includes a host of leading-edge audio capabilities for a powerful and immersive soundscape, ideal for accurate music reproduction, as well as cinema-like home theater sound. The AVR-4520CI AV receiver will be available beginning this month. 

With its elegant front-panel design, larger character displays, richer graphics and newly designed GUI interface – the AVR-4520CI leads Denon’s 2012 receiver lineup as a clear reflection of the company’s expertise in creating components that truly enhance a user’s lifestyle and “connected” home entertainment experience.

Seamless Connectivity to All Today’s Popular Content Sources, Including Spotify With its streamlined new design and easy-to-access front-panel inputs, as well as 4K and 3-D video capability, the 150 watt x 9.2-channel AVR-4520CI provides access to all today’s popular content sources. Notably, Denon recently partnered with Spotify to incorporate the award-winning digital music service in its new and upcoming products, including the AVR-4520CI. Owners of the AVR-4520CI with a Spotify Premium subscription will now be able to enjoy a more personalized music listening experience, bringing a nearly unlimited number of songs into their homes. The flagship also provides access to popular content sources including Sirius XM, vTuner Internet radio and Pandora**. The receiver also features Direct Connectivity for iOS devices via a front panel USB input.

*Reflecting Denon Heritage of Audio Excellence*
Superior audio performance has always been a hallmark of Denon, and the new flagship, with its built-in 150 watts x 9.2 channel, lives up to the Denon tradition in every way. The multi-mono block amp construction ensures top audio quality, and the free assign amp configuration allows maximum system configuration flexibility, making it ideal for custom integrators who want to provide their clients with the ultimate system for every conceivable lifestyle need.

The AVR-4520CI’s incredible surround sound performance is made possible by Denon’s exclusive Dynamic Discrete Surround Circuit (DDSC-HD32) technology, which dispenses with conventional all-in-one chips in favor of a trio of high power 32 bit floating point DSP processors. For the utmost fidelity, the AVR-4520CI is equipped with multiple high resolution 192 kHz/32 bit D/A converters, operating in differential mode for the widest dynamic range. Additionally, the unit’s 11.2-channel processing capability has been newly expanded to accommodate leading edge dts Neo:X.

*Centerpiece of a Whole Home System*
The AVR-4520CI can be the centerpiece of a 4-zone system, including the main room plus three additional playback areas, with independent sources available for each zone. The unit’s seven HDMI inputs and triple HDMI outputs allow for a one wire connection for both picture and sound from most newer audio/video sources, such as set-top boxes, gaming consoles, and Blu-ray players. The AVR-4520CI allows for the connection of up to three different HDMI equipped displays; users can now send two different HDMI feeds to two displays at the same time directly from the receiver, eliminating the need for costly external switches and extra remote control complexity. The AVR-4520CI incorporates true multi-zone HDMI audio/video distribution with the inclusion of HDMI matrix switching functionality.

*IN-COMMAND Also Means Custom Integration-Friendly*
Custom integrators will appreciate the fact that Audyssey MultEQ XT32 Auto Setup and Calibration allows for total ease and accuracy of set-up, along with the ability to use the advanced Audyssey Pro installer kit, which measures ideal sonic performance in up to 32 different positions, defining the ultimate sound quality for virtually any size or shaped room. The AVR-4520CI also features two Audyssey technologies designed to optimize bass performance. Audyssey Sub EQ HT provides individual tailoring for each subwoofer in a dual subwoofer setup, delivering the optimum combination of highest deep bass output and lowest distortion. Audyssey LFC processing analyzes and processes bass content on a continuous basis and custom tailors the sound via advanced psychoacoustic algorithms to deliver dynamic bass response within the listening room without annoying family members or neighbors in adjacent rooms.

The unit also features remote access via the Internet, RS-232 and IP Control for third-party controllers and is Control4 certified. The powerful amplifier section features Denon’s Free Amp Assign function, which lets users configure the receiver to exactly match the needs of an integrated home theater or multi-zone setup.

Yoshinori Yamada, Product Planning Manager for D+M noted: “When Denon created our new flagship AV receiver, we wanted to present a component that would truly

epitomize our corporate principle that ‘Performance is Everything.’ To achieve this goal, we needed to craft a receiver that would not only deliver the leading-edge audio capabilities for which Denon is renowned, but also provide our customers with the very latest in advanced connectivity to all their favorite entertainment sources. With the very latest audio and video processing technologies, the AVR-4520CI delivers performance on par with much more expensive separate components, and includes a host of networking features designed to harmonize with portable devices as well as provide compatibility with major brands of home automation and custom integration system controllers.”

* AirPlay requires iTunes 10.1 or later and iPhone, iPad, or iPod touch with iOS 4.2 or later. A home Wi-Fi network is required.

** Some services may require a subscription

For more information on Denon, visit http://usa.denon.com. Become a fan of Denon on Facebook at http://www.facebook.com/denonusa or follow Denon on Twitter at http://twitter.com/denonus. 

# # #

*About Denon Electronics* 
Denon is a world leader in the manufacture of the highest quality home theater, audio and software products. Denon is recognized internationally for innovative and groundbreaking products and has a long history of technical innovations, including the development and groundbreaking commercialization of PCM digital audio. Denon Electronics is owned by D&M Holdings Inc.

*About D+M Group* 
D+M Group is a global company dedicated to enhancing life through inspired sound solutions delivered anytime, anywhere. With a strong belief that “Performance is everything,” D+M is focused on innovation to meet the needs of customers in an increasingly digital world. Serving the consumer, professional and automotive markets, D+M Group brands include Allen & Heath, Boston Acoustics®, Calrec Audio, Denon®, Denon DJ, Denon Professional, Marantz®, Marantz Professional, McIntosh® Laboratory and Premium Sound Solutions. D+M Group has approximately 2,000 employees worldwide, with products and services marketed in more than 45 countries. D+M Group is a Bain Capital portfolio company.

Looks pretty nice. I am somewhat concerned about it being a 9 Channel AVR and weighing under 40lbs. Especially as it is going to be priced between the 4311 and 4810. I am quite curious about Audyssey LFC (Low Frequency Containment) but would guess it will be quite effective. It is a much more attractive Industrial Design than the 4311 (IMO) and in this regard does seem to split the middle.

Cheers,
JJ

*Denon AVR-4520CI Receiver Review* by Sonnie Parker


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Hello,
I do not see the weight listed here, but according to the Denon Australia Website, it weighs 16.5 Kilograms which comes out to just under 37lbs.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Sevenfeet

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

D&M is controlled by Bain? I guess I have to trash my two Denon receivers now! 

But seriously, it's good that this receiver is finally released, a little late from the earlier 2013 lineup but more money than I can certainly spend.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

It is interesting with Onkyo now being owned by Gibson and D&M being run by Bain Capital. I suppose BC is probably not a great deal different than how D&M were originally run and how ShoreView runs Paradigm, Anthem, MartinLogan and I am sure I am forgetting another brand.

I realize I brought up Bain Capital controlling D&M, but just as a heads up to all, please do keep politics out of general conversation. Especially with the Presidential Election just around the corner, it is all too easy for there to be frayed feelings. I truly mentioned it as I had no idea D&M had been sold.


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## ericzim

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

I think the design looks very nice. I have always liked the way Denon chooses not to clutter the front with decals and always manages to keep a sleek design.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Hello,
I really like the way the 4520 looks. However, the 4311 never looked like a $2000 AVR to me. 
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Hello,
Here is the Denon USA Page:http://usa.denon.com/us/product/pag...id=avreceivers(denonna)&pid=avr4520ci(denonna)
J


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## NBPk402

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Will the Denon allow 1 wire HDMI output to another room (essentially pass through for audio and video) where you could have another receiver?


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



ellisr63 said:


> Will the Denon allow 1 wire HDMI output to another room (essentially pass through for audio and video) where you could have another receiver?


Interesting question. I would think you could connect the HDMI from the 4520 into another AVR's HDMI Inputs and use it in that manner.


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## NBPk402

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



Jungle Jack said:


> Interesting question. I would think you could connect the HDMI from the 4520 into another AVR's HDMI Inputs and use it in that manner.


That is what I was thinking but will the audio also go down the HDMI using one of the 3 display out HDMIs?

This statement makes me think it might although it might require a digital cable for audio...

"The AVR-4520CI incorporates true multi-zone HDMI audio/video distribution with the inclusion of HDMI matrix switching functionality."


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## ChopShop1

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

I agree with Jungle Jack that the 4520 certainly has a more stout look to it than the 4311 did. I own a 4311, and think its fantastic for what I paid(Got a great deal). That said, I probably would not have bought it for $2,000.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Hello,
When I started this thread, I honestly never would have guessed that I would end up owning one. It was truly after reading about Sonnie's experience with his 4520 that I decided to follow suit. I am still astonished that this AVR is driving his Martin Logan Prodigies as they are one of the toughest speakers to drive out there.

I must say that I am using it strictly as an SSP and have it in Preamp Only Mode. That being said, I really love this AVR. Of special note is just how well made the Preamp Section is. There are a number of AVR's out there that struggle with driving external amplifiers due to not having enough voltage.

While some amplifiers are especially easy to drive, amplifiers like my Aragon are on the other end of the spectrum. While my Parasounds are relatively easy to drive and I have not noticed a major difference, the Aragon sounds leaps and bounds better.

While I do think that the upper tier Onkyo have a slight leg up with their combo of HQV Vida and Marvell Qdeo, the Analog Devices video processing is quite good and is at least on par with the older HQV Reon that was used in my former TX-NR3008.

Speaking of that, this is my first non Onkyo in the HDMI era. I must say it still feels strange, but it is somewhat fun to acclimatize myself with a new interface. I also am a big fan of the industrial design. Furthermore, it is really nice to have an AVR that is made in Japan.
Cheers,
JJ


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## NBPk402

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Did they improve on the Owners manual or remote over older versions? I like my Denon 3806 and my 2807 was nice too, but the manuals and remotes were horribly confusing to figure out.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



ellisr63 said:


> Did they improve on the Owners manual or remote over older versions? I like my Denon 3806 and my 2807 was nice too, but the manuals and remotes were horribly confusing to figure out.


Hello,
Instead of providing a printed owners manual Denon is now providing a disc containing the owners manual. This has now become common practice among most manufacturers. Sonnie ended up printing it out and I do think it to be a good idea, but I have not done so.

Just from reading the PDF I have been able to find out whatever information was necessary. The biggest annoyance was having to go back and forth to try the various remote control codes for my cable box, TV, BDP, DVD Player, etc.
All the best,
J


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## ericzim

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Instead of providing a printed owners manual Denon is now providing a disc containing the owners manual. This has now become common practice among most manufacturers. Sonnie ended up printing it out and I do think it to be a good idea, but I have not done so.
> 
> Just from reading the PDF I have been able to find out whatever information was necessary. The biggest annoyance was having to go back and forth to try the various remote control codes for my cable box, TV, BDP, DVD Player, etc.
> All the best,
> J


Since this is a new model does the GUI still look like a late 1980's DOS box like the AVR-16XX? 
I was lucky in the remote codes were all setup for my devices in the default manufacturers lists. Only draw back is if someone (like me) has multiple blu-ray players there is no way to remap an unused device on the remote for the second Blu-ray. I guess thats what Harmony remotes are for


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## hjones4841

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

If it is like my AVR-A100 (anniversary edition of the 4311) the GUI is far better than my old '5508, which has the old "DOS" version that you reference. Still a little hard to find things, but much prettier and it overlays the video being played, rather than blacking out the screen like the old one does.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



ericzim said:


> Since this is a new model does the GUI still look like a late 1980's DOS box like the AVR-16XX?
> I was lucky in the remote codes were all setup for my devices in the default manufacturers lists. Only draw back is if someone (like me) has multiple blu-ray players there is no way to remap an unused device on the remote for the second Blu-ray. I guess thats what Harmony remotes are for


Hello,
The GUI is pretty simplistic, but from what I have read this was to allow it to overlay on 3D Sources. The submenu's are actually pretty slick with excellent legibility.

HJ, I love the A100's finish and gave serious thought to getting one instead. I really think the Anchor Bay VP in your A100 and the 4311 has a slight leg up over the Analog Devices used in the 4520. It was your model that really started the temptation of Denon due to the Preamp Only mode offered. Personally, if I owned a A100 or 4311 I would not even consider the 4520CI.
All the best,
J


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## ericzim

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

I pulled up the PDF and the menu looks like an improvement over my 1612. I plan on upgrading at the end of this year and the Denon AVR-4520CI is near the top of my list.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



ericzim said:


> I pulled up the PDF and the menu looks like an improvement over my 1612. I plan on upgrading at the end of this year and the Denon AVR-4520CI is near the top of my list.


Eric,
That would represent a major upgrade. I am truly enjoying this AVR more and more with each passing day. After over 5 years straight of using Onkyo AVR's, it really is fun to be using something else. Crazier still the TX-SR805 looks almost identical to the TX-NR3008 I was using until 3 weeks ago, 

Granted upgrading from MultEQ XT in the 805/875/3007 to the MultEQ XT32 & SubEQ HT represented a paradigm shift in SQ, but it really is nice to be able to easily choose between an Audyssey Flat Curve and Denon's chosen Audyssey Curve. While with the Onkyo you can engage a Flat Curve, it requires a bit of a trice in that you must both engage THX Processing and turn ReEQ off as opposed to toggling on the Denon.
Cheers,
JJ


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## phillihp23

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Jungle Jack...just wondering....who did you buy your 4520 through? Looking to purchase one.


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## hjones4841

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> HJ, I love the A100's finish and gave serious thought to getting one instead. I really think the Anchor Bay VP in your A100 and the 4311 has a slight leg up over the Analog Devices used in the 4520. It was your model that really started the temptation of Denon due to the Preamp Only mode offered. Personally, if I owned a A100 or 4311 I would not even consider the 4520CI.
> All the best,
> J


Yep, no plans to change out the A100 any time soon.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Phil,
I put my money where my keyboard is (so to speak) and purchased it from AC4L. As has been the case with every AVR I have purchased there for myself and for others, it looks completely brand new. 

From both personal experience and from friends in the industry who I trust, most AVR's and most any electronic for that matter will fail within the first year if they are going to fail at all. That is during the warranty period. 
All the best,
J


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## phillihp23

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

I just ordered one (Denon 4520CI) from AC4L. I found it was cheaper to purchase through their Ebay site than there website. I don't need three HDMI cables and speaker wire, part of the current deal on the website which elevated the cost about $130. 
:bigsmile: :spend: :yikes: So excited.....can't wait


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

You all are such a bad influence - have me wondering if I should upgrade to a unit with XT32 and Sub EQ to make my whole fine tuning process easier and smoother.....


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## phillihp23

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



ALMFamily said:


> You all are such a bad influence - have me wondering if I should upgrade to a unit with XT32 and Sub EQ to make my whole fine tuning process easier and smoother.....


The fact that Jungle Jack and Sonnie have one was the last bit of confidence I needed to jump in the rabit hole!!


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



phillihp23 said:


> I just ordered one (Denon 4520CI) from AC4L. I found it was cheaper to purchase through their Ebay site than there website. I don't need three HDMI cables and speaker wire, part of the current deal on the website which elevated the cost about $130.
> :bigsmile: :spend: :yikes: So excited.....can't wait


Well played sir. I really am quite happy with the 4520,



ALMFamily said:


> You all are such a bad influence - have me wondering if I should upgrade to a unit with XT32 and Sub EQ to make my whole fine tuning process easier and smoother.....


Do it! I really am flabbergasted as to why the Audyssey implementation has had such a positive effect as my TX-NR3008 also had XT32/SubEQ HT.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Hello,
Phillllip23's Ebay snag of the 4520 is brilliant as it is being sold for $1999 on Denon's website and $1899 on AC4L's website.
Here is the Ebay link for $1699:http://www.ebay.com/itm/DENON-AVR-4...23079?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item56531bdf87
Cheers,
J


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## phillihp23

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Keep in mind that AC4L site deal is free shipping. The AC4L EBAY is $70 shipping. Which makes it $1769 on Ebay....still cheaper than on the site $1899. Hence the saved $130.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



phillihp23 said:


> Keep in mind that AC4L site deal is free shipping. The AC4L EBAY is $70 shipping. Which makes it $1769 on Ebay....still cheaper than on the site $1899. Hence the saved $130.


That is an excellent point and I am so glad you mentioned it.


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## needspeed52

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Why do you guys have to do this to me, seriously. My head is spinning like a top, this is unfair tactics but very tactile.....:boxer:


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## ericzim

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

needspeed52, Do I hear a credit card being pulled out of a wallet?


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## needspeed52

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



ericzim said:


> needspeed52, Do I hear a credit card being pulled out of a wallet?[/QUOT
> Yes you do, and so does my wife. You're also hearing the blood dripping from my eyes.:help:


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## phillihp23

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*

Just do it...I did!:bigsmile:


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## Sevenfeet

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



ALMFamily said:


> You all are such a bad influence - have me wondering if I should upgrade to a unit with XT32 and Sub EQ to make my whole fine tuning process easier and smoother.....


This group is a very bad influence, especially since I'd kill for the 4520 but can really only justify the 3313 to my wife. Well, I could just spend $2K and get one on credit but that's outside of the budget and I'm trying not to do that again.

Decisions, decisions. I still wish that my mainstay decade-old Denon 3805 would develop a "problem" to justify it, but that thing is nigh bulletproof.


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## phillihp23

*Re: Denon AVR-4520CI Discussion Thread*



Sevenfeet said:


> Decisions, decisions. I still wish that my mainstay decade-old Denon 3805 would develop a "problem" to justify it, but that thing is nigh bulletproof.



They make them well, highly unlikely to fail on you. I had a Denon 3806 until about two months ago. Worked like a charm, never a problem. Gifted it to my brother in law for Christmas as I was looking to upgrade. UPS smashed it...... Been dealing with the claim on it since....

Great product, regret shipping, a loss even though I was looking to upgrade.


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## Sonnie

For those that may be interested, I have just posted my review of the Denon 4520...

*Denon AVR-4520CI Receiver Review*


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## phillihp23

Sonnie said:


> For those that may be interested, I have just posted my review of the Denon 4520...
> 
> *Denon AVR-4520CI Receiver Review*


Read it, excellent review. Just confirms my good decision yesterday to order one.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Sonnie's Review is truly a must read for anyone interested in the 4520. Especially with Sonnie also having experience with both the 4520's predecessor the AVR-4311CI and the Onkyo 5508, it really adds a great deal of insight.
Cheers,
JJ


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## phillihp23

Should arrive Friday....can't wait till this weekend to tweak with it.


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## Jungle Jack

phillihp23 said:


> Should arrive Friday....can't wait till this weekend to tweak with it.


I am so excited for you. Shipping from Florida to Washington is about as long a wait as possible in the Lower 48. Also, now that AC4L is selling the 4520 for the same price as the Ebay price with free shipping, you might want to see if they will refund whatever you paid for shipping. I am not sure if there are different terms with an Ebay purchase, but Mark and Larry are very nice guys and I would guess at worse they would send you some free cables. Depending on the shipping cost, you might come out ahead with free cables regardless.


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## phillihp23

awww...man...And here I thought i was being thrifty. yawzer Jungle Jack. :unbelievable:

Update
Contacted AC4L. They got back to me right away and refunded the differance. Excellant Customer Service!


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## needspeed52

Man, you guys really got my head spinning, I was looking at dedicated pre-pro's like the Marantz AV7005, the price keeps dropping, but know you have to be telling me I could get the Denon for less than I thought at AC4L:neener: C'mon guys, that credit card is slipping further out of the wallet, like it has 10W-40 on it.


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## Jungle Jack

phillihp23 said:


> awww...man...And here I thought i was being thrifty. yawzer Jungle Jack. :unbelievable:


Hello,
Actually I believe it is because we made it public knowledge that there was such a difference in price between the Ebay and AC4L pricing that Mark went ahead and made it the same for both. And by we it really was you really helping a number of folks get a great deal. All I did was post a link to the 4520 from AC4L's Ebay Store.

The $1699 price is amazing as Denon is selling it for $1999 Factory Refurbished on Denon.Com. I cannot wait for you to get yours so that we can compare notes. Hopefully Joe and Jeff will go ahead and get one soon as well
Sincerely,.
Team AVR-4520CI


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## Jungle Jack

needspeed52 said:


> Man, you guys really got my head spinning, I was looking at dedicated pre-pro's like the Marantz AV7005, the price keeps dropping, but know you have to be telling me I could get the Denon for less than I thought at AC4L:neener: C'mon guys, that credit card is slipping further out of the wallet, like it has 10W-40 on it.


You gotta get a 4520! You would get the energy savings of the 4520's Preamp Only Mode, Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT, Audyssey LFC, and backup in the event that your outboard amplifier needs repair.
All I know is that Sonnie was so pleased with the Amplifier Stage of his 4520 that he went ahead and sold his Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks and he is driving one of the most difficult speakers to drive extant.


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## ALMFamily

Oh man, the peer pressure! :bigsmile:

I have been saving for just over a year for speakers - I really have my ears set on Jim Salk's Soundscapes. I keep wondering though if the SS8's are more suited for someone that plays a higher percentage of music than I do - and at the price, I would hate to not flat out love them for a prevalent movie use.

That said, the Denon would be a big step up from my 809 with XT32 and SubEQ. Uuurggghhh - you guys are making my head go :dizzy:....


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## Sonnie

Relax... it's just money. :spend:


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## ALMFamily

Sonnie said:


> Relax... it's just money. :spend:


True! :bigsmile:

Truly on the fence here - I am certain that XT32 and SubEQ would improve the ability to dial in the HT, and then I can move the 809 to do a bedroom system with the amazing deal Danny just posted. AirPlay would be beneficial as well since we have 2 iTunes accounts as well as adding the ability to add front heights should I ever choose to try it.

Plus, at 12k for the SS8 front stage, that is a pretty hefty investment. They are amazing speakers, but are they twice as good as the Veracity line which, until I heard the soundscapes, was my speaker of choice?

Opinions welcome here...


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## Jungle Jack

ALMFamily said:


> Oh man, the peer pressure! :bigsmile:
> 
> I have been saving for just over a year for speakers - I really have my ears set on Jim Salk's Soundscapes. I keep wondering though if the SS8's are more suited for someone that plays a higher percentage of music than I do - and at the price, I would hate to not flat out love them for a prevalent movie use.
> 
> That said, the Denon would be a big step up from my 809 with XT32 and SubEQ. Uuurggghhh - you guys are making my head go :dizzy:....


One of us. One of us. All kidding aside, what speakers are you using? Also, you be able to get a decent amount of money from selling your AVR.


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## ALMFamily

Jungle Jack said:


> One of us. One of us. All kidding aside, what speakers are you using? Also, you be able to get a decent amount of money from selling your AVR.


I am currently using Salk Songtowers with the Hiquphon OW2 tweeter. I REALLY liked the sound of the RAAL tweeter which I heard in four different speakers - this is the way I would ultimately like to go.

More than likely, I will keep the 809 for bedroom duty.


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## needspeed52

Jungle Jack said:


> You gotta get a 4520! You would get the energy savings of the 4520's Preamp Only Mode, Audyssey XT32/SubEQ HT, Audyssey LFC, and backup in the event that your outboard amplifier needs repair.
> All I know is that Sonnie was so pleased with the Amplifier Stage of his 4520 that he went ahead and sold his Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks and he is driving one of the most difficult speakers to drive extant.


Thank you Jack for that info, Sonnie selling off his Emo mono's, I think that just sealed the deal. Most of the pre-pro's I'm looking at have low output voltages for driving the preouts with the connected amps, why is that so? The Marantz 7005 for example has 1.2 volts preout voltage, my 809 has 4.7V into 470 Ohm max output, why does a receiver like the Onkyo seem more suited to drive outboard amps than dedicated pre-pro's?
Cheers Jeff:spend:


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## Sonnie

I got another firmware upgrade today on my 4520. I don't see any notes on it on the Denon site.


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## Jungle Jack

Sonnie said:


> I got another firmware upgrade today on my 4520. I don't see any notes on it on the Denon site.


Could the Firmware be (3325-5703-3453)? This FW was released on 2-14 and below is the changelog.

- When the customer connects DLXA75R (VICTOR) and 65ZT5 (Panasonic) with the unit via HDMI, the unit was freeze by a dual output.
- When the product is used for a long time, the GUI image might not change even if Source is changed.

I know a few who did not get the FW Notification on the 14th and are still finding out about it now.


----------



## Sonnie

That is very possible. I have only had two updates, and the first one was right after I received it.


----------



## phillihp23

I received my 4520 this past weekend and the first thing I did was check for updates and there was one. Not sure if its a newly issued update or an older update as my unit is refurbished.


----------



## NBPk402

If I get my old stuff sold I am going to try and go for it (If not I might be able to swing the for the 3313)! Is anyone getting the extended warranty with the refurbished ones?


----------



## phillihp23

I got the extended warranty on a refurb.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I am debating whether to get the Square Trade or the one offered by AC4L. Given just how expensive and complex this AVR is, I do think it to be a prudent thing to do.

That being said, M Code who is a frequent poster elsewhere and decidedly works somewhere deep in the belly of the beast, often bring up that most AVR failures are going to occur within the first year. I do wish Denon's Extended Warranty was not so expensive as opposed to Onkyo which charges around $80 for 3 additional years of manufacturers warranty. Denon's is something like $300 for just 2 years.

Thank goodness thanks Mark worked with Denon to change from a 90 Day to a 1 Year Warranty. As with only a 90 day warranty, there is no way I would recommend the purchase of any B-Stock Denon.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I have an somewhat obscure question for you fellow 4520CI B-Stock owners. As only the refurbished 4520CI comes in a double box, does anyone still have their old tracking information or probably just the UPS Sticker on the box showing the weight? 

As I picked up mine from Orlando, I am not sure what it weighs and one of my close friends wants to order one and have it delivered to his place of work, but there is some strange stipulation about the weight of packages delivered there. I know the A-Stock weighs around 44 pounds shipped, but I am thinking the B-Stock weighs more.

I can always call AC4L tomorrow, but would like to let him know tonight if possible.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## phillihp23

Per my FedEx notice 51 lbs. Hope that helps JJ.


----------



## Sonnie

phillihp23 said:


> I received my 4520 this past weekend and the first thing I did was check for updates and there was one. Not sure if its a newly issued update or an older update as my unit is refurbished.


If the last one was released on 2/14, then you should have the latest one.



Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I am debating whether to get the Square Trade or the one offered by AC4L. Given just how expensive and complex this AVR is, I do think it to be a prudent thing to do.
> 
> That being said, M Code who is a frequent poster elsewhere and decidedly works somewhere deep in the belly of the beast, often bring up that most AVR failures are going to occur within the first year. I do wish Denon's Extended Warranty was not so expensive as opposed to Onkyo which charges around $80 for 3 additional years of manufacturers warranty. Denon's is something like $300 for just 2 years.
> 
> Thank goodness thanks Mark worked with Denon to change from a 90 Day to a 1 Year Warranty. As with only a 90 day warranty, there is no way I would recommend the purchase of any B-Stock Denon.
> Cheers,
> JJ


It is nice that the new ones come with a 3-year warranty, but $149 for a 5-year warranty thru AC4L is an awesome deal. It looks like a 3-Year with SquareTrade is $210.


----------



## ALMFamily

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Actually I believe it is because we made it public knowledge that there was such a difference in price between the Ebay and AC4L pricing that Mark went ahead and made it the same for both. And by we it really was you really helping a number of folks get a great deal. All I did was post a link to the 4520 from AC4L's Ebay Store.
> 
> The $1699 price is amazing as Denon is selling it for $1999 Factory Refurbished on Denon.Com. I cannot wait for you to get yours so that we can compare notes. * Hopefully Joe and Jeff will go ahead and get one soon as well*
> Sincerely,.
> Team AVR-4520CI


And so, after Team 4520 applied full on pressure, I caved. It is official - I am a member of Team 4520. 

Now begins the fun - hooking this up! I also need to redo my iRule interface for the 4520..... Yikes, this could take a bit!


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I am so excited Joe has joined the team! Excited enough to post this whilst knee driving on I-75. Do note traffic is crawling.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## ALMFamily

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I am so excited Joe has joined the team! Excited enough to post this whilst knee driving on I-75. Do note traffic is crawling.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Thanks - and be safe! 

Any chance you are making it for Axpona sir?


----------



## Jungle Jack

ALMFamily said:


> Thanks - and be safe!
> 
> Any chance you are making it for Axpona sir?


Sadly not. Going to meet an Fraternity Brother that I have not seen in years.
One of my pledge brothers actually. I will say pledging at an SEC School decidedly brings folks quite close.


----------



## phillihp23

So i hooked two Polk Audio TSI 400 speakers up as front wides to test things out. Eventually I will install a set of towers from the Polk RTi A series, undecided which ones. They are almost exactly 3 feet from the front mains. I used a angle measure and string to line the fronts and wide fronts per the diagrams in the Denon 4520 manual. I believe if i recall it was 30 degrees for the front mains and 50 degrees for the front wides.

When I ran the Audyssey EQ it did not recognize the front wides. Is this normal? I then had to reset the front mains to small and select the option 9.1 wides and turn DSX on. Is there a way to save this setting. So I can hit a button and DSX setting are on or hit another button and Audyssey XT32 is on?

I had brave playing which is great for reference due to its 7.1 soundtrack. When i turned DSX on I instantly felt the front stage fill in and wrap around.

Any Advice you have is welcome.


----------



## Jungle Jack

phillihp23 said:


> So i hooked two Polk Audio TSI 400 speakers up as front wides to test things out. Eventually I will install a set of towers from the Polk RTi A series, undecided which ones. They are almost exactly 3 feet from the front mains. I used a angle measure and string to line the fronts and wide fronts per the diagrams in the Denon 4520 manual. I believe if i recall it was 30 degrees for the front mains and 50 degrees for the front wides.
> 
> When I ran the Audyssey EQ it did not recognize the front wides. Is this normal? I then had to reset the front mains to small and select the option 9.1 wides and turn DSX on. Is there a way to save this setting. So I can hit a button and DSX setting are on or hit another button and Audyssey XT32 is on?
> 
> I had brave playing which is great for reference due to its 7.1 soundtrack. When i turned DSX on I instantly felt the front stage fill in and wrap around.
> 
> Any Advice you have is welcome.


Hello,
As I am running a 5.2 HT, my experience is this arena is decidedly little. However, it does appear odd that the 4520 does not recognize your Wides as from what I have seen of the Audyssey Setup it seems to ask you all the pertinent information. I will drag out my Martin Logan Montages that are sitting unused in my Master Bedroom when time permits and try to reproduce the same feat.

I have been mighty tempted to add one or both parts of DSX. Problem is the 5 foot tall speakers I use for Mains and Surrounds do not lend themselves to such applications. I might have to break down and purchase a few pairs of ML Motions in spite of my feelings about Martin Logan making non electrostatic speakers in general.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## HIFI

ChopShop1 said:


> I agree with Jungle Jack that the 4520 certainly has a more stout look to it than the 4311 did. I own a 4311, and think its fantastic for what I paid(Got a great deal). That said, I probably would not have bought it for $2,000.


I also own the 4311 and think it is great as well but I would not have paid full retail as well. I also got a great deal. I am very happy with it..


----------



## Sonnie

Phil, I think you could save the configurations in the Web Controller app... maybe even using it on a smartphone or iPad type gizmo. 

Have you looked at the IR Code List from Denon? If you have a learning remote I believe you can setup a macro to do what you want. The list show several DSX options (page 13)... and it shows an XT32 option as well (page 14).


----------



## Jungle Jack

Sonnie said:


> If the last one was released on 2/14, then you should have the latest one.
> 
> 
> It is nice that the new ones come with a 3-year warranty, but $149 for a 5-year warranty thru AC4L is an awesome deal. It looks like a 3-Year with SquareTrade is $210.


Indeed the 3 year warranty for all CI A-Stock models is quite nice. I need to do some more research on the 3rd party provider AC4L offers. Judging by how they operate, I think it would be pretty reputable.


----------



## phillihp23

Should the 4520 make a loud click noise when DSX is activated? Is this normal? I would assume it is the amp assigning itself to the Front Wide output?


----------



## ALMFamily

This owner's manual sure is extensive - been reading it for the past few days and it makes me sleepy... :bigsmile:


----------



## Sevenfeet

I just read through the last 4 pages and I'm a little late on the party. $1699 for a refurb 4520? Gee, that's almost impossible to turn down...except my wife would crucify me. Still, it's only money, right Sonnie?

Suddenly, my 3805 is feeling very uneasy.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Printing out the Owners Manual probably knocked down a few Pine Trees. 
Sevenfeet, Denon's x05 Series I think represented Denon at its zenith. That being said the 4520 is awfully special and your 3805 is around 10 years old which I would hope might perhaps only warranting Caning as they do in Singapore and elsewhere by your Wife as opposed to what you described.

D&M have seemed to do a good job in respect to keeping their authorized retailers in line with respect to selling below MSRP. There are some non authorized places that advertise A-Stocks for around $1,900, but given authorized dealers are running low in stock and there is no way to get a warranty, I would definitely go with AC4L.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> This owner's manual sure is extensive - been reading it for the past few days and it makes me sleepy... :bigsmile:


Don't all manuals? 

If you get tired of reading it... You can always send me the 4520 and I will tell you how it works, after I read the manual of course.


----------



## Jungle Jack

ellisr63 said:


> Don't all manuals?
> 
> If you get tired of reading it... You can always send me the 4520 and I will tell you how it works, after I read the manual of course.


Hello,
I certainly think an entry level AVR is going to have a much simpler owners manual owing to just how relatively basic it is to something like the 4520. The 4520 is truly one of the more flexible AVR's I have ever encountered. All time award still goes to the AVR-5805.

Truth be told, while I have printed out the owners manual, I have not honestly read a page. I received a new printer/fax/scanner/copier that I wanted to try out. Now I do plan to hole punch it and place it into a binder. However, I have setup multiple Denon AVR's including the AVR-4311 in the past year so I was conversant in Denonese.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## ALMFamily

ellisr63 said:


> Don't all manuals?
> 
> If you get tired of reading it... You can always send me the 4520 and I will tell you how it works, after I read the manual of course.


Deal! Oh wait...... :bigsmile:



Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I certainly think an entry level AVR is going to have a much simpler owners manual owing to just how relatively basic it is to something like the 4520. The 4520 is truly one of the more flexible AVR's I have ever encountered. All time award still goes to the AVR-5805.
> 
> Truth be told, while I have printed out the owners manual, I have not honestly read a page. I received a new printer/fax/scanner/copier that I wanted to try out. Now I do plan to hole punch it and place it into a binder. However, I have setup multiple Denon AVR's including the AVR-4311 in the past year so I was conversant in Denonese.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I just wish I had one tenth your knowledge - then I would not feel I had to read it or it will blow up! 

I did finish it today - I have finished redoing all the connections and I am doing the firmware update now.


----------



## phillihp23

ALMFamily said:


> I did finish it today - I have finished redoing all the connections and I am doing the firmware update now.


Well i guess i will just ask you questions if I have any, save me the time of reading the novel.


----------



## ALMFamily

phillihp23 said:


> Well i guess i will just ask you questions if I have any, save me the time of reading the novel.


Awwww man! 

Just finished running XT32 - about to fire up REW and see where I am at.....


----------



## NBPk402

I know my old Denon 2807 and my 3806 both had horrible manuals. The 3806 would reference the remote and tell you to push a button to get another screen to pop up and it was totally wrong. I get the impression that the manuals are written in Japanese and then use google translate to convert them to English.


----------



## ALMFamily

OK, this will be the only graph I post here - I promise! This is no EQ, just setting up the 4520 and running Audyssey:









Simply amazing the difference between XT and XT32 / Sub EQ.......


----------



## Eric D

Thanks for the chatter - count another one in for a refurb 4250. :yay2:

I've been planning to replace my Denon 3300, and had been soooo waiting for the Outlaw 978. When that project cratered, I retrenched. Started looking again seriously in Dec to coincide with remodel of the family/TV room. 

As I'm dual-sub'ed and in love with the parameterized house curve I'd previously set, I really wanted to keep the option open of going to the installer setup if I don't like the Audyssey defaults. That had me down to either the Integra 70.4 or the 4250, but I was having troubles going the additional mile on cost.

Then, while taking a break from cutting room behind baseboards for cables this weekend, I happened across the updates to this thread from the last month! 

Already reported to my wonderful wife (not sarcastic - she really is wonderful) about all the money I'm "saving," (and her telling me after I told her the punchline that it was smart of me to lead with the savings), the trigger has already been pulled. 

I've been looking forward to getting some form of DSP correction since I first heard it (even before Audyssey et al). :daydream:

It'll be a couple of months for this all to get into place, but I'll be sure to report on the results. 

Again, thanks!


----------



## ALMFamily

Eric D said:


> Thanks for the chatter - count another one in for a refurb 4250. :yay2:
> 
> I've been planning to replace my Denon 3300, and had been soooo waiting for the Outlaw 978. When that project cratered, I retrenched. Started looking again seriously in Dec to coincide with remodel of the family/TV room.
> 
> As I'm dual-sub'ed and in love with the parameterized house curve I'd previously set, I really wanted to keep the option open of going to the installer setup if I don't like the Audyssey defaults. That had me down to either the Integra 70.4 or the 4250, but I was having troubles going the additional mile on cost.
> 
> Then, while taking a break from cutting room behind baseboards for cables this weekend, I happened across the updates to this thread from the last month!
> 
> Already reported to my wonderful wife (not sarcastic - she really is wonderful) about all the money I'm "saving," (and her telling me after I told her the punchline that it was smart of me to lead with the savings), the trigger has already been pulled.
> 
> I've been looking forward to getting some form of DSP correction since I first heard it (even before Audyssey et al). :daydream:
> 
> It'll be a couple of months for this all to get into place, but I'll be sure to report on the results.
> 
> Again, thanks!


Welcome to the 4520 club! :yay2:

I was working in iRule a bit today with it - and I ended up turning on the Airplay from my iPod. Quite, quite awesome......


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Congrats Eric. Really think you are going to love it. My father has a pretty large home in Tennessee and I ended up sending him my 4520 and in return he purchased me another one. The reason he did not just order one himself is that I was able to program the Remote Control and setup the Zones where it was relatively easy for my brother to set it up. It is hard to do it living 750 miles south.

Even though I provided him with the link to AC4L, he ended up sending one to me from Amazon. I am still befuddled about this, but I can say that an A-Stock looks absolutely identical to the one I had picked up at AC4L. About the only differences I can see are a strip of blue tape that covers the front panel and the Audyssey Microphone being in a white box as opposed to being in the bag. Slightly different packaging and only a single box. In truth, I much prefer the double boxing from the AC4L unit.

Definitely does not make it remotely worth the $800 difference. Truth be told, if it did not mean going at least a week without an AVR, I would have sent it back. We had set it up where he ordered the other one before I sent off mine former 4520. I just assumed that I was getting another from AC4L. The reason I ended up getting it the same day as when I was shipping of mine is my father uses Amazon Prime.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## phillihp23

It seems our little club is growing quickly


----------



## NBPk402

Well I just bit the bullet... Ordered one from A4L. I should have it next week. Hope my fiance doesn't find out how much I just spent!


----------



## ALMFamily

Yay! Another one succumbs to the peer pressure! 

Seriously though, you are getting a GREAT unit!


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> Yay! Another one succumbs to the peer pressure!
> 
> Seriously though, you are getting a GREAT unit!


Should be a huge improvement over my 3806. Next will be a new projector.


----------



## Jungle Jack

ellisr63 said:


> Well I just bit the bullet... Ordered one from A4L. I should have it next week. Hope my fiance doesn't find out how much I just spent!


Hello,
Congrats amigo. I would buy all the toys you possibly want before getting Married! I do think we are getting a good per capita 4520 ownership ratio.
Best,
J


----------



## kingpin748

Well in an effort to bankrupt myself and alienate my spouse I've dropped the hammer on a brand new 4520. I just can't be bothered with this refurb stuff. But yeah, That's just my jealousy talking. 

E4L won't ship refurbished Denon to Canada much to my dismay and my dealers glee. At least he gave me a decent deal. Once my SBS-02s get here next week I'll be the proud owner of a 9.1 system because, you know,there are just so many 9.1 audio tracks out there right now. 

I pick it up tomorrow morning so it looks likes I'll be taking the day off!


----------



## NBPk402

kingpin748 said:


> Well in an effort to bankrupt myself and alienate my spouse I've dropped the hammer on a brand new 4520. I just can't be bothered with this refurb stuff. But yeah, That's just my jealousy talking.
> 
> E4L won't ship refurbished Denon to Canada much to my dismay and my dealers glee. At least he gave me a decent deal. Once my SBS-02s get here next week I'll be the proud owner of a 9.1 system because, you know,there are just so many 9.1 audio tracks out there right now.
> 
> I pick it up tomorrow morning so it looks likes I'll be taking the day off!


Always a good reason for a sick day... cough, cough. LOL


----------



## ALMFamily

Alright, I am running into an issue with my unit. It appears to be dropping signal when watching any content - the screen will go dark (or a nice magenta during Wreck It Ralph) and then come back on in roughly 5-10 secs.

It is happening on both Cable and BR so it cannot be either of those units. My first thought was that perhaps I had a bad HDMI cable from the AVR to the projector so I swapped that - same issue.

So, I hooked the cable directly to the OPPO and output just to the projector - the issue did not present itself.

To me, this means I am down to the AVR. Does this sound like an HDMI board issue? The only thing I have not tried yet is a factory reset, but I cannot seem to locate that procedure in the manual.

However, I should not have to do this with a unit that I just purchased. Does it make better sense just to return it now?


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> Alright, I am running into an issue with my unit. It appears to be dropping signal when watching any content - the screen will go dark (or a nice magenta during Wreck It Ralph) and then come back on in roughly 5-10 secs.
> 
> It is happening on both Cable and BR so it cannot be either of those units. My first thought was that perhaps I had a bad HDMI cable from the AVR to the projector so I swapped that - same issue.
> 
> So, I hooked the cable directly to the OPPO and output just to the projector - the issue did not present itself.
> 
> To me, this means I am down to the AVR. Does this sound like an HDMI board issue? The only thing I have not tried yet is a factory reset, but I cannot seem to locate that procedure in the manual.
> 
> However, I should not have to do this with a unit that I just purchased. Does it make better sense just to return it now?


I would say return it... Did you buy it new or was yours a refurb? Just wondering if it is a refurb does it get warranty replacement by Denon or do you return it to where you bought it.


----------



## ALMFamily

I called Denon this morning. They think it may be an issue with the length of the cable from the AVR to the projector. I am going to pull it out of the HT and put it in the bedroom system with a shorter cable to see if the issue still presents itself. 

I did not have any issues with the length of the cable on the 809.....,


----------



## ALMFamily

ALMFamily said:


> I called Denon this morning. They think it may be an issue with the length of the cable from the AVR to the projector. I am going to pull it out of the HT and put it in the bedroom system with a shorter cable to see if the issue still presents itself.
> 
> I did not have any issues with the length of the cable on the 809.....,


Update - I have been running the 4520 in the bedroom now for about 3 hours and the issue has not resurfaced. So, I ordered a couple Redmere cables from Monoprice - I will update further once I get them and reset the system back up.


----------



## Pigman

After reading the review on here and looking to upgrade from my Denon 987, I do believe I am going to pull the trigger on one of these. I have Polk Rtia9's for my fronts, and have been told by many folks that more power would greatly benefit them. I would also be able to bi-amp them and keep the 7.1 setup that I currently have. Now to save a some cash and break it to the wife without her breaking me. Maybe some of the tax refund will have to go toward this.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Pigman said:


> After reading the review on here and looking to upgrade from my Denon 987, I do believe I am going to pull the trigger on one of these. I have Polk Rtia9's for my fronts, and have been told by many folks that more power would greatly benefit them. I would also be able to bi-amp them and keep the 7.1 setup that I currently have. Now to save a some cash and break it to the wife without her breaking me. Maybe some of the tax refund will have to go toward this.


One of us. One of us. One of us..... All kidding aside, I am still astonished that this AVR is driving Sonnie's fantastic Martin Logan Prodigies. They are truly not an easy speaker to drive. Come to that, I think The Cedar Creek Cinema might benefit from the next generation of ML Speakers. I am nominating myself to deliver my Vantages and Vistas to Alabama to facilitate the swap.


----------



## ALMFamily

I noticed a difference right away having the 809 in the HT rather than the 4520. Having SubEQ made a world of difference in the low end - I noticed less impact tonight with Wreck It Ralph than I did last night. Plus, the Denon does have a warmer sound - I understand what people are talking about when they say that now!


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
There really is something special about the Preamp Stage on the 4520. Then again as it also forms the essence of the even more expensive Marantz AV8801 it only stands to reason that it is so good.
Best,
J


----------



## phillihp23

Due to my current work situation I have downgraded my cable tv. I now only have a cheap digital converter box. It has a coaxel in and out. Is there a way to convert the coaxel out to a audio video format which I can run through my Denon 4520 and up to my projecter by hdmi?? Just asking don't know if there is a way :dontknow::help:


----------



## Jungle Jack

phillihp23 said:


> Due to my current work situation I have downgraded my cable tv. I now only have a cheap digital converter box. It has a coaxel in and out. Is there a way to convert the coaxel out to a audio video format which I can run through my Denon 4520 and up to my projecter by hdmi?? Just asking don't know if there is a way :dontknow::help:


Phillihp,
Unfortunately a Coaxial Digital Output is audio only. However, should the box have Component Outputs, you could run the Components into the Denon and it will then transcode into HDMI to your FP.
Cheers,
J


----------



## kingpin748

I've got a question about dual subs. I've got a Paradigm DSP-3100 and a SVS PC12-Plus and I'm wondering if there is any point in running them together. They are such different subs that I don't feel like it's worth setting it all up, if Sub EQ HT will be able to do anything useful with it. 

The SVS was the replacement for the Paradigm which is up for sale. Considering what I've blown this month on my "hobby" I'm not going to be able to get another SVS for a long time. I'm dying to true out dual subs though. Should I bother?


----------



## Jungle Jack

kingpin748 said:


> I've got a question about dual subs. I've got a Paradigm DSP-3100 and a SVS PC12-Plus and I'm wondering if there is any point in running them together. They are such different subs that I don't feel like it's worth setting it all up, if Sub EQ HT will be able to do anything useful with it.
> 
> The SVS was the replacement for the Paradigm which is up for sale. Considering what I've blown this month on my "hobby" I'm not going to be able to get another SVS for a long time. I'm dying to true out dual subs though. Should I bother?


Hello,
SubEQ HT should really help in this application. I am currently using a 100+ pound Martin Logan Descent i along with the 65 lb Martin Logan Depth and the difference after switching to XT32/SubEQ HT was astonishing.

While my subwoofers use the same triple driver design and share a great deal of the same technology, they are a decent bit difference in size. Given the huge advantage to dual subwoofers, I would at least try using both.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## ALMFamily

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> SubEQ HT should really help in this application. I am currently using a 100+ pound Martin Logan Descent i along with the 65 lb Martin Logan Depth and the difference after switching to XT32/SubEQ HT was astonishing.
> 
> While my subwoofers use the same triple driver design and share a great deal of the same technology, they are a decent bit difference in size. Given the huge advantage to dual subwoofers, I would at least try using both.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I quite agree - I was equally astonished at what Sub EQ was able to accomplish with my setup. At the very least, I would give it a try. You can always remove it if it just does not sound right.


----------



## kingpin748

I'm sold, I'll give it a try. Now if only my SVS STS-02s would get here I could start playing with the front high setup.


----------



## Jungle Jack

kingpin748 said:


> I'm sold, I'll give it a try. Now if only my SVS STS-02s would get here I could start playing with the front high setup.


That is awesome. I am in the process of deliberating between keeping my current electrostatic speaker array or switching to Focal, Dynaudio, Wilson Audio, or Thiel. 

If I stay with Martin Logan, I am going to add the Motion Series bookshelves for use with Height and Width for DSX and DTS NEO.


----------



## kingpin748

Jungle Jack said:


> That is awesome. I am in the process of deliberating between keeping my current electrostatic speaker array or switching to Focal, Dynaudio, Wilson Audio, or Thiel.
> 
> If I stay with Martin Logan, I am going to add the Motion Series bookshelves for use with Height and Width for DSX and DTS NEO.


Yeah, I don't know what I'm going to upgrade to but it probably involves Paradigm Studios. For now at $150 a pair the SVSs were a no brainier. I'll run them up in the kitchen off another zone when I upgrade. This Denon has so many options it's hard to deicde what to do.


----------



## NBPk402

Well, I don't know what happened to mine... It was saying it would be delivered today on the FedEx website, but it has been in Reno for since yesterday morning. Earlier today it was showing delivery on time now it says n/a. I wonder if the drove over it or lost it... It is only 200 miles to Reno.


----------



## kingpin748

ellisr63 said:


> Well, I don't know what happened to mine... It was saying it would be delivered today on the FedEx website, but it has been in Reno for since yesterday morning. Earlier today it was showing delivery on time now it says n/a. I wonder if the drove over it or lost it... It is only 200 miles to Reno.


I was told Wednesday for mine so I sod my receiver Tuesday night. Then Thursday. Then Friday. I walked into my dealer Friday afternoon and was told Monday. At least they gave me a decent Yamaha for the weekend. It's been surprisingly fun playing with it and listening to it considering I'm a Denon guy. I'm definitely an Audyssey snob now though.


----------



## Jungle Jack

ellisr63 said:


> Well, I don't know what happened to mine... It was saying it would be delivered today on the FedEx website, but it has been in Reno for since yesterday morning. Earlier today it was showing delivery on time now it says n/a. I wonder if the drove over it or lost it... It is only 200 miles to Reno.


I would definitely call FedEX. They can definitely at least tell you the situation I would think.


----------



## phillihp23

Same deal with me when I ordered last month...said delivered by Friday..showed ontime. Then the weekend passed and it showed up MOnday. Fedex may not give good delivery date estimates, but its better it takes a little longer and arrives in tip top condition.


----------



## needspeed52

From what I'm hearing here this Sub EQ HT is the real deal. I'm not much of a RC man myself and I think my subs sound really good without EQ, but you guys are killing me here, I feel like I'm really missing out on the next best thing since sliced bread :huh::dumbcrazy:


----------



## Jungle Jack

needspeed52 said:


> From what I'm hearing here this Sub EQ HT is the real deal. I'm not much of a RC man myself and I think my subs sound really good without EQ, but you guys are killing me here, I feel like I'm really missing out on the next best thing since sliced bread :huh::dumbcrazy:


Jeff,
I really think you will love. In addition, the 4520CI offers Audyssey LFC which helps to preserve bass in the listening area while somehow making less intrusive in other parts of the house. This feature is exclusive to the 4520CI in the AVR realm and its kissing cousin the Marantz AV8801 in the SSP realm.
Best,
J


----------



## needspeed52

Jungle Jack said:


> Jeff,
> I really think you will love. In addition, the 4520CI offers Audyssey LFC which helps to preserve bass in the listening area while somehow making less intrusive in other parts of the house. This feature is exclusive to the 4520CI in the AVR realm and its kissing cousin the Marantz AV8801 in the SSP realm.
> Best,
> J


Jack, that is one fantastic exclusive feature, and you have never steered me wrong in all the years we've been acquinted, you have lightened my wallet a bit though.:spend: It looks like you may be doing it again, this Denon could give me a lot of space by replacing several components, I don't know if I could get used to using a receiver's amps though, well I don't know Sonnie did, that and the Sub EQ HT maybe all she wrote, I can hear the missus now, maybe not though as I just hooked her up with some powered desktops and sub, nice sound card and she is open to anything at this point, she is up in her candle room blasting away all kinds of downloads, prior to this she didn't know a speaker from a wire, at least I'm not alone in my asylum anymore.:help: I've been thinking the opposite lately, video and not audio, I'd really like to get a PJ and screen, but that's another story and for another forum thread. Take care my friend. I see you got Joe (Alm Family) hooked too. You have a way of doing that, and you're probably right that I would love the 4520.:nono:
Cheers Jeff


----------



## Jungle Jack

needspeed52 said:


> Jack, that is one fantastic exclusive feature, and you have never steered me wrong in all the years we've been acquinted, you have lightened my wallet a bit though.:spend: It looks like you may be doing it again, this Denon could give me a lot of space by replacing several components, I don't know if I could get used to using a receiver's amps though, well I don't know Sonnie did, that and the Sub EQ HT maybe all she wrote, I can hear the missus now, maybe not though as I just hooked her up with some powered desktops and sub, nice sound card and she is open to anything at this point, she is up in her candle room blasting away all kinds of downloads, prior to this she didn't know a speaker from a wire, at least I'm not alone in my asylum anymore.:help: I've been thinking the opposite lately, video and not audio, I'd really like to get a PJ and screen, but that's another story and for another forum thread. Take care my friend. I see you got Joe (Alm Family) hooked too. You have a way of doing that, and you're probably right that I would love the 4520.:nono:
> Cheers Jeff


Jeff,
I stand astonished that the 4520CI is capable of driving Sonnie's ML Prodigies. Furthermore, there is no stronger testament to the Sonnie's satisfaction than him selling off his Emotiva XPA-1 Monoblocks. I vow to connect my Martin Logans to the Denon directly to hear how capable it is myself.

You should be able to get a decent amount of money for your TX-NR809. I recommend selling it to a friend so that you can provide the warranty by being able to handle it personally should anything requiring repairing occur as the Manufacturers Warranty is not transferable.

The 4520CI is so feature laden that it really should be able to act as the brains of your HT for at least 5 years. In addition, Denon has some of the best resale value of any AVR on the market and it also happens to be one ofhe only AVR's on the market that is Made in Japan. I actually cannot think of any other recently released AVR that is. Marantz's doppelganger AV8801 is also made there, but is a Surround Sound Processor. The two model's back panels look all the same with the exception of XLR's being in the place of Binding Posts in the Marantz.
All the best,
J


----------



## kingpin748

Jungle Jack said:


> n addition, Denon has some of the best resale value of any AVR on the market and it also happens to be one ofhe only AVR's on the market that is Made in Japan.


I can attest to that. I just sold a 989 and a 3311 within 2 days for a fair price. Since both guys were new to Audyssey I walked them through it. Needless to say they were very happy with their purchases.


----------



## ALMFamily

ALMFamily said:


> Update - I have been running the 4520 in the bedroom now for about 3 hours and the issue has not resurfaced. So, I ordered a couple Redmere cables from Monoprice - I will update further once I get them and reset the system back up.


After some extended viewing time this past weekend, the issue happened again. It appears to be happening once the unit hits a certain temperature - it just took longer in the bedroom. Calling Denon again this morning......

On the downside, I now have 2 Redmere cables on the way that it appears I really did not need.


----------



## ALMFamily

ALMFamily said:


> After some extended viewing time this past weekend, the issue happened again. It appears to be happening once the unit hits a certain temperature - it just took longer in the bedroom. Calling Denon again this morning......
> 
> On the downside, I now have 2 Redmere cables on the way that it appears I really did not need.


Just got off the phone with Denon - did a factory reset and I am going to run it for the day to see if it happens again. If it does, they suggested I just do an exchange. I will update everyone as we go along.

Note that I understand that these things happen - and it does not affect my opinion of the unit in the slightest. When fully functional, this is a fantastic unit.


----------



## NBPk402

Question about the network hub... Does the Denon have to be on or can it just be in standby mode to use? I was curious as I was thinking of hooking up other devices to the network hub.


----------



## NBPk402

Jungle Jack said:


> I would definitely call FedEX. They can definitely at least tell you the situation I would think.


Just got off the phone with FedEx... They are putting a trace on the package and the department that handles it will not be open until Tuesday. They said it def will not be delivered today... sorry for the delay. Well if it is lost I will ask for a refund and get a new one for $100 more.


----------



## Jungle Jack

ellisr63 said:


> Just got off the phone with FedEx... They are putting a trace on the package and the department that handles it will not be open until Tuesday. They said it def will not be delivered today... sorry for the delay. Well if it is lost I will ask for a refund and get a new one for $100 more.


Hello,
Perhaps it will be a blessing in disguise. Can the AVS Store really get an A-Stock 4520 for $1799? If so, that is an amazing deal. All the same, I am truly sorry for what you are currently having to go through.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## ALMFamily

ellisr63 said:


> Question about the network hub... Does the Denon have to be on or can it just be in standby mode to use? I was curious as I was thinking of hooking up other devices to the network hub.


If I recall correctly from my full read of the manual, I think it just needs to be in standby. Too bad I cannot test that theory as I just boxed it up - I am sending it back. Just awaiting approval from a "manager" to issue the call slip.


----------



## needspeed52

ALMFamily said:


> If I recall correctly from my full read of the manual, I think it just needs to be in standby. Too bad I cannot test that theory as I just boxed it up - I am sending it back. Just awaiting approval from a "manager" to issue the call slip.


Sorry to here about your misfortune my friend, I can only imagine the disappointment. I'm just not convinced that is the way I want to go, I really have my heart set on a decent processor that does Sub EQ HD or a separate Sub EQ option. Take care Joe.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## ALMFamily

needspeed52 said:


> Sorry to here about your misfortune my friend, I can only imagine the disappointment. I'm just not convinced that is the way I want to go, I really have my heart set on a decent processor that does Sub EQ HD or a separate Sub EQ option. Take care Joe.
> Cheers Jeff


Yeah, I would probably be a bit more bent if I did not have my 809 still. Ah well, I am sure Denon will take care of me.


----------



## kingpin748

I got my receiver today. This thing is big, had to rearrange everything to find a shelf it fit. Thing seems to run hot too but I've never had a receiver this big. I've put a 230mm fan I had lying around on top of it which should make a difference.

Ran Audyssey in 3 positions to try it out and it sounds very good. The subs just blend better than they ever did. It told me I had to turn down both the SVS and the Paradigm which was a little surprising. I wasn't sure how it was all going to tun out until I played Avengers at about -6db. Very nice indeed.


----------



## ALMFamily

kingpin748 said:


> I got my receiver today. This thing is big, had to rearrange everything to find a shelf it fit. Thing seems to run hot too but I've never had a receiver this big. I've put a 230mm fan I had lying around on top of it which should make a difference.
> 
> Ran Audyssey in 3 positions to try it out and it sounds very good. The subs just blend better than they ever did. It told me I had to turn down both the SVS and the Paradigm which was a little surprising. I wasn't sure how it was all going to tun out until I played Avengers at about -6db. Very nice indeed.


Where did it set your crossovers?


----------



## kingpin748

ALMFamily said:


> Where did it set your crossovers?


Should have written it down but I believe

FR FL - 40
CC - 80
SR SL - 120
RR RL -140
Subs -120

I've got:

Paradigm Monitor 9
Paradigm CC-190
Paradigm ADP-190
Paradigm DSP-3100
SVS PC12-Plus

Rears are some Yamaha HTIB speakersI've had for years. They were actually part of my first surround system. New SVS will be here Thursday so I'll run it again then with the FHs.


----------



## NBPk402

Just received notice from FedEx that mine will be delivered today!


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
There is a new Firmware Update for the 4520CI. I received notification late last night, but held off and am currently doing it right now. When I find the Changelog I will post that as well.
Best,
J


----------



## phillihp23

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> There is a new Firmware Update for the 4520CI. I received notification late last night, but held off and am currently doing it right now. When I find the Changelog I will post that as well.
> Best,
> J


Was just gonna say a similar thing. Just got done updating mine.


----------



## NBPk402

I have something very strange happening...
When I first hooked up the 4520 I was able to have my cable box hooked up with component and the 4520 would switch it to HDMI to my projector or my Samsung fp. Once the update was done... Now it will only convert the component to the Samsung. I also have developed another problem... If I run the component out to my projector I get a picture but if I turn off the Samsung the picture goes blue screen. Now the Samsung only has HDMI hooked up to it and the projector has HDMI and component. I have went through all the settings and I can't find where this is set wrong. I also have a problem with my video turning off and then back on a second later... This happens without doing anything. BTW the audio is excellent! If I turn off the Samsung while I am viewing my PC via HDMI, the screen goes blank for a second too.

Any ideas?


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> Alright, I am running into an issue with my unit. It appears to be dropping signal when watching any content - the screen will go dark (or a nice magenta during Wreck It Ralph) and then come back on in roughly 5-10 secs.
> 
> It is happening on both Cable and BR so it cannot be either of those units. My first thought was that perhaps I had a bad HDMI cable from the AVR to the projector so I swapped that - same issue.
> 
> So, I hooked the cable directly to the OPPO and output just to the projector - the issue did not present itself.
> 
> To me, this means I am down to the AVR. Does this sound like an HDMI board issue? The only thing I have not tried yet is a factory reset, but I cannot seem to locate that procedure in the manual.
> 
> However, I should not have to do this with a unit that I just purchased. Does it make better sense just to return it now?


I think this is the same issue I am having. :-(


----------



## ALMFamily

ellisr63 said:


> I think this is the same issue I am having. :-(


Is audio dropping out as well when this happens?


----------



## Jungle Jack

ellisr63 said:


> I have something very strange happening...
> When I first hooked up the 4520 I was able to have my cable box hooked up with component and the 4520 would switch it to HDMI to my projector or my Samsung fp. Once the update was done... Now it will only convert the component to the Samsung. I also have developed another problem... If I run the component out to my projector I get a picture but if I turn off the Samsung the picture goes blue screen. Now the Samsung only has HDMI hooked up to it and the projector has HDMI and component. I have went through all the settings and I can't find where this is set wrong. I also have a problem with my video turning off and then back on a second later... This happens without doing anything. BTW the audio is excellent! If I turn off the Samsung while I am viewing my PC via HDMI, the screen goes blank for a second too.
> 
> Any ideas?


Hello,
That is quite interesting the Update affected the operation like that. I am honestly at a loss on this one as it worked fine prior to the FW Update.

While never fun, I would call Denon. Hopefully, they will kick it up to a higher level of CS. I am truly sorry you are experiencing any of this.
Best,
J


----------



## ALMFamily

I checked in with the person I spoke with - my "claim" is currently being processed and she was not able to give me an ETA on when that might be complete. I will continue to keep you all updated.


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> I checked in with the person I spoke with - my "claim" is currently being processed and she was not able to give me an ETA on when that might be complete. I will continue to keep you all updated.


Are they sending you a 4520 and then you send your bad one in, or do you have to be without? Just in case anyone doesn't know... When you are without your device your warranty is extended by Federal Law by the amount of time it is out of your possession.


----------



## ALMFamily

ellisr63 said:


> Are they sending you a 4520 and then you send your bad one in, or do you have to be without? Just in case anyone doesn't know... When you are without your device your warranty is extended by Federal Law by the amount of time it is out of your possession.


As I understand it, I will have to send it in first. Of course, I am without it now. I already boxed it back up - either Denon is exchanging it or I am returning it. While I love the sound, having it drop audio and video is just not going to fly.


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> As I understand it, I will have to send it in first. Of course, I am without it now. I already boxed it back up - either Denon is exchanging it or I am returning it. While I love the sound, having it drop audio and video is just not going to fly.


What a shame... I was hoping that they would do it like Epson does. Epson has you put a credit card up for a deposit and sends you a new unit... When you receive it you pack your old one up in the new box. When they receive the old one the cancel the CC info.

I am currently waiting for Denon Tech Support. Mine is acting very strange now. I did the factoiry reset and now I can use my cable box via HDMI but now I get no PC signal to my projector but both sources go to the Samsung via HDMI as does the cable box to the projector.


----------



## JBrax

Sounds like you guys should have bought a trusty and dependable Onkyo!


----------



## ALMFamily

JBrax said:


> Sounds like you guys should have bought a trusty and dependable Onkyo!


I already have one of those - it is back in the HT now! 

TBH, what made me purchase one of these was XT32 with Sub EQ to see what it would do as well as being able to hear the difference in sound that other owners have professed to hear. Plus, Airplay is quite fun!


----------



## JBrax

I just couldn't help myself with that one. Probably not the proper time to attempt cracking a joke. I'm sure it's quite frustrating dealing with improperly working electronics. I just thought it was Onkyo that was the problem child.


----------



## NBPk402

Well my problem turned out to be nothing more than a old HDMI cable and old Projector. Luckily I was able to get a new 1.4 HDMI cable and it appears to have solved the problem. I am def happy with my 4520.


----------



## ALMFamily

ellisr63 said:


> Well my problem turned out to be nothing more than a old HDMI cable and old Projector. Luckily I was able to get a new 1.4 HDMI cable and it appears to have solved the problem. I am def happy with my 4520.


Yay! Glad you were able to get it straightened out.


----------



## ericzim

ellisr63 said:


> What a shame... I was hoping that they would do it like Epson does. Epson has you put a credit card up for a deposit and sends you a new unit... When you receive it you pack your old one up in the new box. When they receive the old one the cancel the CC info.
> 
> I am currently waiting for Denon Tech Support. Mine is acting very strange now. I did the factoiry reset and now I can use my cable box via HDMI but now I get no PC signal to my projector but both sources go to the Samsung via HDMI as does the cable box to the projector.


Yes cross shipping is hard to beat and I wish big companies like Denon and Onkyo would adopt it. Especially on 1000+ dollar items.


----------



## Edelweys

*Re: New kid on the block*

Hi guys,
Ordered my 4520 yesterday from AC4L, in part thanks to the info I received lurking on this thread.
This beauty is definitely more than I needed, but exactly what I wanted...
Can't wait to unpack and bombard you with stooopid questions (compared to most everyone here, I'm pretty much a noob in the field of audiophilistery, or whatever the old Greeks called it...)
:R
I've been a fan of Denon since my old PMA-720 (still fulfilling its duty in the bedroom), and finally decided that I can't live without HDMI anymore, so the trusted 3803 will have to retire.

Questions right off the bat: will I be able to eliminate my bedroom electronics cluster by means of one long HDMI cable to my TV there? (and work the 4520 from there via WiFi with my iPhone / Denon-remote app?)

Is there any benefit to WiFi enabled TVs it terms of set-up/accessibility?

I have a feeling this is going to be another expensive hobby...
:sad: :gulp:


----------



## Carlosm

Good afternoon. I will really need some advices for this issue. I have for around a month an AVR-4520CI receiver. After 2 weeks,
I don't have any information on the LCD Screen receiver.
I did the microprocessor reset process many times with not result.
This is my actual configuration:


Definitive Technology BP8060ST Front Floorstand Speakers.
Definitive Technology CS8060HD Center Speaker.
Definitive Technology SR8080BP Surround Speakers
Definitive Technology SM55 for Front Height & Wide Speakers
HSU VTF-15H Subwoofer

My Audyssey Values are:


Amp. Assign

Assign mode Discrete 11.1 ch
Main pre-amps. Front

Speaker configuration

Front. Small
Center. Small
Subwoofer. 2 spkrs
Surround. Small
Surround back. Small
2 Speakers
Front Height. Small
Front Wide. Small


Speakers/ Distances

Unit. Feet
Step. 1 feet

Front L. 8.6ft
Front R. 8.7ft
Center. 9.7ft
Subwoofer 1. 10.2ft
Subwoofer 2. 8.3ft
Surround L. 6.5ft
Surround R. 7.0ft
Surround Back L. 5.3ft
Surround Back R. 5.5ft
Front Height L. 10.9ft
Front Height R. 11.0ft
Front Wide L. 10.9ft
Front Wide R. 11.1ft


Speaker/Test tones

Front L. -6.5db
Front Height L. 0.0db
Center. -6.5db
Front Height R. -0.5db
Front R. -5.0db
Front Wide R. -3.0db
Surround R. +0.5db
Surround Back R. +1.0db
Surround Back L. +1.0db
Surround L. -1.0db
Front Wide L. -3.0db
Subwoofer 1 -5.5db
Subwoofer 2. -4.0db
Subwoofer 1+2. Down/Up

Speakers Crossovers

Speaker Selection. Individual
All. 80hz. (No se puede cambiar)
Front. 110hz
Center. 40hz. Changed to 80hz all
Surround. 40hz. Recomended BY Audyssey
Surround Baco. 40hz. & HSU (Leo). Technical Support
Front Height. 40hz
Front Wide. 40hz

Speakers/Bass

Subwoofer Mode. LFE
LPF for LFE. 120hz

Speakers Impedance

Impedance. 8ohms

I am really VERY HAPPY with the system performance but I need to solve this issue if possible.
Thanks again for your advices and support.
Carlos


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> Yay! Glad you were able to get it straightened out.


Well I thought it was fixed... I replaced 2 HDMI cables and it was working bu now it is having a problem with the PC again. I believe the problem is the older HDMI that the Epson has as the Samsung has no problems at all with the 4520. For the time being I will just unplug the HDMI (monitor out) from the 4520 and plug it in directly to the PC when I want to use the PC. I am also going to order some new Monoprice cables... What is the dif with the Redmere cables? I need about 16' to run to the projector.

tia,
Ron


----------



## ALMFamily

Edelweys said:


> Hi guys,
> Ordered my 4520 yesterday from AC4L, in part thanks to the info I received lurking on this thread.
> This beauty is definitely more than I needed, but exactly what I wanted...
> Can't wait to unpack and bombard you with stooopid questions (compared to most everyone here, I'm pretty much a noob in the field of audiophilistery, or whatever the old Greeks called it...)
> :R
> I've been a fan of Denon since my old PMA-720 (still fulfilling its duty in the bedroom), and finally decided that I can't live without HDMI anymore, so the trusted 3803 will have to retire.
> 
> Questions right off the bat: will I be able to eliminate my bedroom electronics cluster by means of one long HDMI cable to my TV there? (and work the 4520 from there via WiFi with my iPhone / Denon-remote app?)
> 
> Is there any benefit to WiFi enabled TVs it terms of set-up/accessibility?
> 
> I have a feeling this is going to be another expensive hobby...
> :sad: :gulp:


Yes, you will just need one HDMI from the 4520 to your TV, and do all you source switching via the remote / remote app.



Carlosm said:


> Good afternoon. I will really need some advices for this issue. I have for around a month an AVR-4520CI receiver. After 2 weeks,
> I don't have any information on the LCD Screen receiver.
> I did the microprocessor reset process many times with not result.
> This is my actual configuration:
> 
> 
> Definitive Technology BP8060ST Front Floorstand Speakers.
> Definitive Technology CS8060HD Center Speaker.
> Definitive Technology SR8080BP Surround Speakers
> Definitive Technology SM55 for Front Height & Wide Speakers
> HSU VTF-15H Subwoofer
> 
> My Audyssey Values are:
> 
> 
> Amp. Assign
> 
> Assign mode Discrete 11.1 ch
> Main pre-amps. Front
> 
> Speaker configuration
> 
> Front. Small
> Center. Small
> Subwoofer. 2 spkrs
> Surround. Small
> Surround back. Small
> 2 Speakers
> Front Height. Small
> Front Wide. Small
> 
> 
> Speakers/ Distances
> 
> Unit. Feet
> Step. 1 feet
> 
> Front L. 8.6ft
> Front R. 8.7ft
> Center. 9.7ft
> Subwoofer 1. 10.2ft
> Subwoofer 2. 8.3ft
> Surround L. 6.5ft
> Surround R. 7.0ft
> Surround Back L. 5.3ft
> Surround Back R. 5.5ft
> Front Height L. 10.9ft
> Front Height R. 11.0ft
> Front Wide L. 10.9ft
> Front Wide R. 11.1ft
> 
> 
> Speaker/Test tones
> 
> Front L. -6.5db
> Front Height L. 0.0db
> Center. -6.5db
> Front Height R. -0.5db
> Front R. -5.0db
> Front Wide R. -3.0db
> Surround R. +0.5db
> Surround Back R. +1.0db
> Surround Back L. +1.0db
> Surround L. -1.0db
> Front Wide L. -3.0db
> Subwoofer 1 -5.5db
> Subwoofer 2. -4.0db
> Subwoofer 1+2. Down/Up
> 
> Speakers Crossovers
> 
> Speaker Selection. Individual
> All. 80hz. (No se puede cambiar)
> Front. 110hz
> Center. 40hz. Changed to 80hz all
> Surround. 40hz. Recomended BY Audyssey
> Surround Baco. 40hz. & HSU (Leo). Technical Support
> Front Height. 40hz
> Front Wide. 40hz
> 
> Speakers/Bass
> 
> Subwoofer Mode. LFE
> LPF for LFE. 120hz
> 
> Speakers Impedance
> 
> Impedance. 8ohms
> 
> I am really VERY HAPPY with the system performance but I need to solve this issue if possible.
> Thanks again for your advices and support.
> Carlos


Welcome Carlos!

The first thing Denon support had me do was to switch HDMI cables, preferably as short as I could manage. Give this a try. You might also try turning components on in a different order to see if you are having the HDMI handshake issue. Good luck!



ellisr63 said:


> Well I thought it was fixed... I replaced 2 HDMI cables and it was working bu now it is having a problem with the PC again. I believe the problem is the older HDMI that the Epson has as the Samsung has no problems at all with the 4520. For the time being I will just unplug the HDMI (monitor out) from the 4520 and plug it in directly to the PC when I want to use the PC. I am also going to order some new Monoprice cables... What is the dif with the Redmere cables? I need about 16' to run to the projector.
> 
> tia,
> Ron


Ron,

As I understand it, the Redmere cables amplify the signal much the same way a signal booster would. I believe this is why it is important to make sure you install them correctly.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Edelweys said:


> Hi guys,
> Ordered my 4520 yesterday from AC4L, in part thanks to the info I received lurking on this thread.
> This beauty is definitely more than I needed, but exactly what I wanted...
> Can't wait to unpack and bombard you with stooopid questions (compared to most everyone here, I'm pretty much a noob in the field of audiophilistery, or whatever the old Greeks called it...)
> :R
> I've been a fan of Denon since my old PMA-720 (still fulfilling its duty in the bedroom), and finally decided that I can't live without HDMI anymore, so the trusted 3803 will have to retire.
> 
> Questions right off the bat: will I be able to eliminate my bedroom electronics cluster by means of one long HDMI cable to my TV there? (and work the 4520 from there via WiFi with my iPhone / Denon-remote app?)
> 
> Is there any benefit to WiFi enabled TVs it terms of set-up/accessibility?
> 
> I have a feeling this is going to be another expensive hobby...
> :sad: :gulp:


Hello,
Congrats on the 4520. I love mine. I use Ethernet as opposed to WiFi everywhere possible. The 4520CI having a 4 port switch makes it that much easier.

There might be some issues depending on how long the HDMI Cable is. I do believe they make amplifiers for long runs of HDMI.
Best,
J



Carlosm said:


> Good afternoon. I will really need some advices for this issue. I have for around a month an AVR-4520CI receiver. After 2 weeks,
> I don't have any information on the LCD Screen receiver.
> I did the microprocessor reset process many times with not result.
> This is my actual configuration:
> 
> 
> Definitive Technology BP8060ST Front Floorstand Speakers.
> Definitive Technology CS8060HD Center Speaker.
> Definitive Technology SR8080BP Surround Speakers
> Definitive Technology SM55 for Front Height & Wide Speakers
> HSU VTF-15H Subwoofer
> 
> My Audyssey Values are:
> 
> 
> Amp. Assign
> 
> Assign mode Discrete 11.1 ch
> Main pre-amps. Front
> 
> Speaker configuration
> 
> Front. Small
> Center. Small
> Subwoofer. 2 spkrs
> Surround. Small
> Surround back. Small
> 2 Speakers
> Front Height. Small
> Front Wide. Small
> 
> 
> Speakers/ Distances
> 
> Unit. Feet
> Step. 1 feet
> 
> Front L. 8.6ft
> Front R. 8.7ft
> Center. 9.7ft
> Subwoofer 1. 10.2ft
> Subwoofer 2. 8.3ft
> Surround L. 6.5ft
> Surround R. 7.0ft
> Surround Back L. 5.3ft
> Surround Back R. 5.5ft
> Front Height L. 10.9ft
> Front Height R. 11.0ft
> Front Wide L. 10.9ft
> Front Wide R. 11.1ft
> 
> 
> Speaker/Test tones
> 
> Front L. -6.5db
> Front Height L. 0.0db
> Center. -6.5db
> Front Height R. -0.5db
> Front R. -5.0db
> Front Wide R. -3.0db
> Surround R. +0.5db
> Surround Back R. +1.0db
> Surround Back L. +1.0db
> Surround L. -1.0db
> Front Wide L. -3.0db
> Subwoofer 1 -5.5db
> Subwoofer 2. -4.0db
> Subwoofer 1+2. Down/Up
> 
> Speakers Crossovers
> 
> Speaker Selection. Individual
> All. 80hz. (No se puede cambiar)
> Front. 110hz
> Center. 40hz. Changed to 80hz all
> Surround. 40hz. Recomended BY Audyssey
> Surround Baco. 40hz. & HSU (Leo). Technical Support
> Front Height. 40hz
> Front Wide. 40hz
> 
> Speakers/Bass
> 
> Subwoofer Mode. LFE
> LPF for LFE. 120hz
> 
> Speakers Impedance
> 
> Impedance. 8ohms
> 
> I am really VERY HAPPY with the system performance but I need to solve this issue if possible.
> Thanks again for your advices and support.
> Carlos


Carlos,
Is there any way possible you might have accidentally turned the dimmer setting all the way to off? Dimmer is under General in the Setup Menu and from there Front Display.
Cheers,
J


----------



## ALMFamily

After a week of waiting for a response, I called Denon support again this morning. I was informed that they are now "escalating" it to a supervisor - I am curious as to why that was not done originally - and that they would be contacting me.

I must admit - I am normally pretty understanding about these things, but this one is starting to get under my skin a bit. Again, it is a great unit, but I am a little disappointed by the support side of things.


----------



## Carlosm

Thanks for your advice.
I already checked the Dim Option. 
Not result.
Any other advices?
Carlos


----------



## Jungle Jack

ALMFamily said:


> After a week of waiting for a response, I called Denon support again this morning. I was informed that they are now "escalating" it to a supervisor - I am curious as to why that was not done originally - and that they would be contacting me.
> 
> I must admit - I am normally pretty understanding about these things, but this one is starting to get under my skin a bit. Again, it is a great unit, but I am a little disappointed by the support side of things.


Joe,
I cannot imagine how frustrating this must be. However, at least when I experienced the late Spring to July Onkyo TX-NR3007 HDMI Meltdown, once it was escalated things moved quite fast and I ended up being given an A-Stock TX-NR3008 to replace the TX-NR3007 that I literally spent 600 miles driving back and forth from a local Onkyo Service Center trying to get repaired.

While I now know who to talk to in Onkyoland, this is my first Denon since the AVR-4800 which was in the pre D&M and pre Bain Capital ownership days.
Best,
J


----------



## nezff

hey guys. long time no talk. Im in the market for a Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801. Im wondering what you guys opinions are. Im seeing some issues with reliability on the 4520 over at the AVS forums. Just wondering if any of you guys have had repairs or returns etc.. I read a couple posts on here about you few having issues. There arent any stating issues on the marantz thread.

thanks


----------



## Jungle Jack

nezff said:


> hey guys. long time no talk. Im in the market for a Denon 4520 or Marantz 8801. Im wondering what you guys opinions are. Im seeing some issues with reliability on the 4520 over at the AVS forums. Just wondering if any of you guys have had repairs or returns etc.. I read a couple posts on here about you few having issues. There arent any stating issues on the marantz thread.
> 
> thanks


Hello,
As you know they are very similar beasts. As for issues, I believe Joe (ALMFamily) has been the only person who has experienced any issues with a 4520 to the best of my knowledge.

I realize we are a much smaller sampling comparative to AVS, but I do think on the whole it has been so far so good. I suppose I should point out as I did a few posts back that I initially purchased a B-Stock AVR-4520CI from AC4L that I ended up sending to my father after programming the RC with macros and renamed all of his components and the like.

While I sent him an Email with a link to AC4L, he for reasons I am still not completely aware of ended up purchasing the one he sent me from Amazon and is an A-Stock. My father has had no issues and neither did I in the 3 or 4 weeks I had it prior to him.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## ALMFamily

My issue appeared to be a faulty HDMI board - I now have my new unit and have been working to get it set up. Of course, I am still playing catch up from a spring break trip so I have not spent much time with it, but so far no issues encountered.


----------



## nezff

Thanks. 

It could have been my ears, but it seemed the denon did something different but better with my subs. I'm still debating on both units.


----------



## Jungle Jack

nezff said:


> Thanks.
> 
> It could have been my ears, but it seemed the denon did something different but better with my subs. I'm still debating on both units.


From everything I have read, the Audyssey implementation is identical. This of course applies to Audyssey's fantastic SubEQ HT which is bundled with XT32 on the 4520/8801. While SubEQ HT is only applicable to those using dual subwoofers, you are using dual subwoofers. 

SubEQ HT made is tremendous difference for me as I am using a Martin Logan Descent i and Martin Logan Depth. While both use the same triple woofer configuration, the Descent i uses 10 inch woofers and the Depth uses 8 inch woofers. Since using SubEQ beginning with an Ounkyo TX-NR3008, the integration of the subwoofers has been absolutely fantastic. Not that it was bad when using XT and only applying filtering to the Descent, but this is in an entirely different league.


----------



## nezff

Jungle Jack said:


> From everything I have read, the Audyssey implementation is identical. This of course applies to Audyssey's fantastic SubEQ HT which is bundled with XT32 on the 4520/8801. While SubEQ HT is only applicable to those using dual subwoofers, you are using dual subwoofers.
> 
> SubEQ HT made is tremendous difference for me as I am using a Martin Logan Descent i and Martin Logan Depth. While both use the same triple woofer configuration, the Descent i uses 10 inch woofers and the Depth uses 8 inch woofers. Since using SubEQ beginning with an Ounkyo TX-NR3008, the integration of the subwoofers has been absolutely fantastic. Not that it was bad when using XT and only applying filtering to the Descent, but this is in an entirely different league.


 I find myself bumping my subs up more after audyssey. To me there are just nonexistent. Mine were cut at -9 and -8db.


----------



## Jungle Jack

nezff said:


> I find myself bumping my subs up more after audyssey. To me there are just nonexistent. Mine were cut at -9 and -8db.


I do too. While it seems controversial, I have always brought out my SPL Meter after running MultEQ beginning with my TX-SR805. I set all of my loudspeakers to 75db's and subwoofer to 80db's.


----------



## needspeed52

Jungle Jack said:


> I do too. While it seems controversial, I have always brought out my SPL Meter after running MultEQ beginning with my TX-SR805. I set all of my loudspeakers to 75db's and subwoofer to 80db's.


Jack, I do not think it is controversial at all, sorry but my only use for Audyssey would be the Sub EQ, and even that is suspicious, I do not want to ruffle feathers here, I have yet to be satisfied with the altered FR of my speakers after calibration, I guess I have no broken room problems for Audyssey to fix
Cheers


----------



## Jungle Jack

needspeed52 said:


> Jack, I do not think it is controversial at all, sorry but my only use for Audyssey would be the Sub EQ, and even that is suspicious, I do not want to ruffle feathers here, I have yet to be satisfied with the altered FR of my speakers after calibration, I guess I have no broken room problems for Audyssey to fix
> Cheers


Jeff,
That is actually awesome that you have such an acoustically sound room. SubEQ HT was just the absolute perfect application considering I am using 2 different subwoofers and the thrust of my enthusiasm for Audyssey is the effect on the Subwoofer. This sentiment was the same when I was using a single subwoofer and many do believe that where RoomEQ in general provides the most beneficial effect is with the Sub/LFE.

With the Denon, I actually have been switching back and forth between Bypassing FL/FR and full XT32. I wish that Onkyo offered this option. Apologies if the current Onkyos are now offering this.
Best,
J


----------



## needspeed52

Jungle Jack said:


> Jeff,
> That is actually awesome that you have such an acoustically sound room. SubEQ HT was just the absolute perfect application considering I am using 2 different subwoofers and the thrust of my enthusiasm for Audyssey is the effect on the Subwoofer. This sentiment was the same when I was using a single subwoofer and many do believe that where RoomEQ in general provides the most beneficial effect is with the Sub/LFE.
> 
> With the Denon, I actually have been switching back and forth between Bypassing FL/FR and full XT32. I wish that Onkyo offered this option. Apologies if the current Onkyos are now offering this.
> Best,
> J


I hear you Jack, the dual subwoofers is my main concern, I wish I could get a product that has Audyssey SubEQ HT only, that would be the ideal solution for me. I don't know if my room is acoustically perfect, I spend countless hours with placement and listening and using the tools on the side of my head but would really like something in a receiver that deals with LFE strictly.
Cheers


----------



## asere

Hello,I don't mean to hijack this conversation but if someone can please answer this. I have just the multeq version of Audyssey and I am using two subs that Audyssey reads as one because I have no Sub Eq Ht on my avr. If one day I decide to use just one sub do I need to run Audyssey again in order to get the full potential of the one sub? In using two subs does the performance split up among the two?


----------



## ALMFamily

asere said:


> Hello,I don't mean to hijack this conversation but if someone can please answer this. I have just the multeq version of Audyssey and I am using two subs that Audyssey reads as one because I have no Sub Eq Ht on my avr. If one day I decide to use just one sub do I need to run Audyssey again in order to get the full potential of the one sub? In using two subs does the performance split up among the two?


You would - it would set the distance based on the reading from the two and adjust the delay accordingly.


----------



## nezff

Jungle Jack said:


> I do too. While it seems controversial, I have always brought out my SPL Meter after running MultEQ beginning with my TX-SR805. I set all of my loudspeakers to 75db's and subwoofer to 80db's.


Not necessarily controversial, but its all if you trust a cheap spl meter over a high tech room correction software like audyssey. That's pretty much the way it was explained to me on the audyssey thread. Audyssey basically makes us change the way we hear our system. Reference vs preference.


----------



## needspeed52

nezff said:


> Not necessarily controversial, but its all if you trust a cheap spl meter over a high tech room correction software like audyssey. That's pretty much the way it was explained to me on the audyssey thread. Audyssey basically makes us change the way we hear our system. Reference vs preference.


I've used a CHEAP SPL meter with the high tech Audyssey mic and had very similar spl readings with the LFE. The Audyssey mics supplied are surely not high tech devices to use with the so called high tech software. There are way too many questions for me to employ active Audy EQ compared to the answers. Audyssey for me funamentally changes the character of the sound coming out of the speaker in ways that nobody has even attempted to quantify. You said it yourself, Audyssey changes the way we hear our systems, what reference is there for comparison? So I quess we have to just get used to an Audyssey corrected sound and just take their word for it that's it's reference. I have great expectations for the SubEQ HT but that's as far as I wil go with Audyssey. I wish I had the knowledge to use high tech software and mics to manually apply cut or boost, at least I will know how I am tailoring the sound and not just taking Audyssey's unquantified word for it.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## nezff

that is your opinion, and you have that right. I guess Im lost how you think Audyssey ISNT a higher tech piece of equipment/software? But to each his own. Im not sure what version of Audyssey you are using, but XT32 has way more filters and is just a better version all the way around.
The reference vs preference I stated is a good read here:


Here is a trick question: “What if I correct the acoustical problems in my room, but I don’t like the resulting sound?” If you find yourself asking this question you have stumbled on the line between Reference and Preference.

Let’s look at what room correction aims to do. You start with a good (or not so good) set of speakers, you place them in a room and what you have is problems: acoustical problems. Sound from the speakers comes to you from many different directions. Some of it directly, but most of it after interacting with the floor, ceiling, walls, and furniture. Because each of these elements is at different distances from where you sit, the combined sounds arrive at slightly different times and what you hear is a form of distortion. Voices can sound unnatural, the low frequencies are muddy or boomy, and the high frequencies lack air and sparkle (yes, these are all technical terms).

A well-designed room correction system captures information throughout the listening area and analyzes it in the time domain. It then creates an equalization solution for each speaker and applies it so that the response matches a certain target sound. And here is where we first catch a glimpse of the Reference vs Preference line: What should this target sound be?

The answer lies earlier in the chain, where the content is made. The film industry adheres to a set of strict standards that are used in the creation of the content and in the reproduction of the content in movie theaters. These standards define the location, level, and frequency response (target sound) of the speakers in the audio system. They are in place so that content created in one location can translate perfectly to thousands of movie theaters. The same translation should apply when the content is played back in a home theater.

So, calibrating your home theater system “to reference” means that: (i) the levels of each speaker and subwoofer are matched to each other; (ii) the playback level of the system reaches a certain sound pressure level when the volume control on your AVR is set to “0”; (iii) the time delays for each speaker and subwoofer are adjusted so that sound from all of them arrives at the same time to the central point of the listening area; and (iv) the frequency response of each speaker and subwoofer is such that the perceived octave-to-octave balance is the same at home as it is in the dubbing stage or the movie theater.

Reference is a good thing because it gives us a way to reproduce the art the way it was made. But, you might say: “I like more (or less) bass.” OK, I’ve never heard anyone ask for “less bass,” but I suppose it’s possible. As soon as the word “like” is uttered we have crossed into the uncharted waters of the Preference abyss. It can be a fun place to be and there is nothing wrong with applying personal touches to your sound, especially if you are the one enjoying it. But know this: It’s not the job of a room correction system to determine your preference. That is entirely up to you. What room correction gives you when it delivers reference is a known baseline and the ability to apply preference consistently. Without it, boosting the bass for some content would not sound the way you want it for other content because you are not starting from a known condition. If you want to apply your preference, I have some words of advice: “Start with reference.”


----------



## needspeed52

Thank you for that, I have read that many times trying to understand it. And yes I have experienced XT32 but not SubEQ HT. You have a very nice setup and I'm sure RC has improved your reference system to your referred preference. Please provide me with some documented quantifiable proof of this data that RC does everything mentioned in the article and content of the source is indeed arriving at your LP at the intended times and corrected accordingly. IOW without room correction and those who are not pro RC are just wasting their time buying any kind of serious AV equipment because we are not hearing this percieved reference sound. I am not saying you do not seriously hear these vast room corrections, this to me is a very subjective discussion, the proof is in the puddin, show me. Seriously no malice intented here, I hope you don't feel that way, and thank you for that very interesting explanation. Can and have these results been measured with before and after RC filters? Thank you for the time.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## kingpin748

needspeed52 said:


> Thank you for that, I have read that many times trying to understand it. And yes I have experienced XT32 but not SubEQ HT. You have a very nice setup and I'm sure RC has improved your reference system to your referred preference. Please provide me with some documented quantifiable proof of this data that RC does everything mentioned in the article and content of the source is indeed arriving at your LP at the intended times and corrected accordingly. IOW without room correction and those who are not pro RC are just wasting their time buying any kind of serious AV equipment because we are not hearing this percieved reference sound. I am not saying you do not seriously hear these vast room corrections, this to me is a very subjective discussion, the proof is in the puddin, show me. Seriously no malice intented here, I hope you don't feel that way, and thank you for that very interesting explanation. Can and have these results been measured with before and after RC filters? Thank you for the time.
> Cheers Jeff


Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you but is your position RC doesn't work or that Audyssey and its like are just marketing gimmicks?


----------



## Jungle Jack

nezff said:


> Not necessarily controversial, but its all if you trust a cheap spl meter over a high tech room correction software like audyssey. That's pretty much the way it was explained to me on the audyssey thread. Audyssey basically makes us change the way we hear our system. Reference vs preference.


The thing is the Audyssey Filtering is not disengaged when the Channel Levels are adjusted. And as for a cheap SPL Meter, I am quite confident that the microphone used in my SPL is at least the equal of the tiny one that is used with the Audyssey Microphone. You might notice that the Audyssey Pro Kit uses a real Microphone as opposed to a McDonalds Happy Meal sized microphone bundled with all other Audyssey equipped AVR/SSP's. Moreover, I have used a friend's very expensive SPL Meter as well after running MultEQ and the variation is slight if any. 

When running XT32, my Mains and CC do not need adjustment and read 75db's. However, my surrounds which are around 4 feet away from my primary listening position, read so low that they do not even read when set to the 70db Band. That is they are reading below 70db's and are truly not audible when left at the post MultEQ Settings.


----------



## nezff

I never said or implied audyssey is perfect. Every room is different. I myself honestly don't care if you like audyssey or not, therefore I'm not going out looking for proof etc...to make you like or understand it. There is a huge and very very informative thread over at AVS forum dedicated to audyssey. A lot smarter gents than I on this subject. 

If you yourself think that manual eq tops audyssey room correction so be it. I never said that by adjusting your channels individually trumps or disengages aud either. Audyssey has a website where you can talk to Luke and Chris (inventor of audyssey) to ask certain questions and get great info.


----------



## ALMFamily

Please remember we are all friends here and let's keep the dialogue civil.


----------



## kingpin748

Jungle Jack said:


> When running XT32, my Mains and CC do not need adjustment and read 75db's. However, my surrounds which are around 4 feet away from my primary listening position, read so low that they do not even read when set to the 70db Band. That is they are reading below 70db's and are truly not audible when left at the post MultEQ Settings.


Hmmm, that's wierd. Why would Audyssey set them below what's audible? So what do you adjust them to? What does it take to make them audible? I assume you're sitting there with the meter or you're getting all fancy and have the meter on a stand?

And for the record non of my posts are meant to aggressive or even passive-aggressive. I truly enjoy the discussion of these topics and am a firm believer doing what you like. I also don't consider a different opinion to be a attack on mine.


----------



## Jungle Jack

The Surrounds are probably reading around 68db's. Mind you the Audyssey Microphone is about 5 feet away from the Vistas in the primary listening position and less when doing the 2nd and 3rd position. Again, it is when the SPL Meter is set to the 70db Band that it is reading "Low". I have never bothered to see what the exact SPL reading is as I know it is too low and the Surrounds are barely audible after running MultEQ.

Most do not have their surrounds so close to their listening position, but I decided to place a premium on the main stage and have the couch about as far away as possible from the Mains and CC. It comes out to around 16 feet. As I said prior, I just bump up the Surrounds so that they read 75db's and choose to raise the Subwoofers to 80.


----------



## needspeed52

Jungle Jack said:


> The Surrounds are probably reading around 68db's. Mind you the Audyssey Microphone is about 5 feet away from the Vistas in the primary listening position and less when doing the 2nd and 3rd position. Again, it is when the SPL Meter is set to the 70db Band that it is reading "Low". I have never bothered to see what the exact SPL reading is as I know it is too low and the Surrounds are barely audible after running MultEQ.
> 
> Most do not have their surrounds so close to their listening position, but I decided to place a premium on the main stage and have the couch about as far away as possible from the Mains and CC. It comes out to around 16 feet. As I said prior, I just bump up the Surrounds so that they read 75db's and choose to raise the Subwoofers to 80.


That sure is civil and eloquently put Jack, thank you. I quess some collars are smoking, hadn't noticed till the removal. I heard you can get a Rat Shack meter at ACE hardware in the pest control department. I have no qualms with discussing Audyssey both pros and cons, and I'm sure the inventors are more than willing to help with all facets of it's operational behaviour. If my name was Jeff Lamborghini born in Bologna Italy I'd gladly advocate the driving of my car, although they are owned by a German company called Volkswagen. I don't know why these things turn into fists fights. I was always taught that your listening environment should be one of a casual affair, to intertain and be comfortable with company and enjoy the music. I guess I'm old school and need to get caught up in what's happening in the real world of altered states. Take care my friend.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## needspeed52

ALMFamily said:


> Please remember we are all friends here and let's keep the dialogue civil.


Hey Joe my man, how's things buddy, long time no talk. I hope all is well with you and yours. How's the Aragons treating you? OK then, sorry if I spoke out of line, I have no intention of doing so, nor wishing any malice towards anyone.
Cheers Jeff


----------



## mcascio

Hey Joe. Bummer to hear about all your issues with the 4520. Hopefully you get some resolution soon.

Just curious to those with working units, what sound mode do you like to use for movies?

Also, when in Neo X 11.1 mode, if I go into the Audyssey menu and turn on heights/wides, then go to a new sound mode and return, the settings don't take. Is this the norm?


----------



## nezff

With the growing issues with this unit on AVS and some of them on this thread, I think I feel better about my Marantz purchase.

A guy on AVS went through four units before getting a good one. Another member just bought two and one was bad out of the box. I always thought Denon was a rock solid unit, hence the reason I swapped over to them from Onkyo.


----------



## asere

nezff said:


> With the growing issues with this unit on AVS and some of them on this thread, I think I feel better about my Marantz purchase.
> 
> A guy on AVS went through four units before getting a good one. Another member just bought two and one was bad out of the box. I always thought Denon was a rock solid unit, hence the reason I swapped over to them from Onkyo.


it's luck of the draw. I have a Denon for almost 3 years and no issues. My Denon has no internet capabilities and that may be a reason why there are no issues.Avrs nowadays do way more than what they were intended to do in the first place and that's just simply amplify. Some Onkyos have hmdi issues too.


----------



## nezff

asere said:


> it's luck of the draw. I have a Denon for almost 3 years and no issues. My Denon has no internet capabilities and that may be a reason why there are no issues.Avrs nowadays do way more than what they were intended to do in the first place and that's just simply amplify. Some Onkyos have hmdi issues too.


You havent had the 4520 for three years. It hasnt been out that long. 

Seems the problems arouse after the merger.


----------



## asere

nezff said:


> You havent had the 4520 for three years. It hasnt been out that long.
> 
> Seems the problems arouse after the merger.


I did not say I had the 4520 for almost 3 years. I said I have a Denon for almost 3 years with no internet capabilities.


----------



## nezff

asere said:


> I did not say I had the 4520 for almost 3 years. I said I have a Denon for almost 3 years with no internet capabilities.



Not trying to be rude, but you having a old denon compared to me talking about the 4520 has no bearing on my comment. Im talking about the 4520 which is the thread we are currently in. So basically you having a three year old denon and the new 4520 issues are relevant.


----------



## asere

nezff said:


> Not trying to be rude, but you having a old denon compared to me talking about the 4520 has no bearing on my comment. Im talking about the 4520 which is the thread we are currently in. So basically you having a three year old denon and the new 4520 issues are relevant.


I understand I was just giving my opinion that most folks have more issues with modern avrs because one reason is they now are made to do a lot more than amplify and with that you can have more issues regardless of whether it's the 4520 or any other modern model that we are taking about.


----------



## ALMFamily

mcascio said:


> Hey Joe. Bummer to hear about all your issues with the 4520. Hopefully you get some resolution soon.
> 
> Just curious to those with working units, what sound mode do you like to use for movies?
> 
> Also, when in Neo X 11.1 mode, if I go into the Audyssey menu and turn on heights/wides, then go to a new sound mode and return, the settings don't take. Is this the norm?


Thanks Mario - I am actually all squared away and have been running the new unit for the last couple weeks. Everything looks good so far.

As far as listening mode, I tend to let the unit decide based on how the specific movie is encoded.

Never tried Neo X since I do not have heights or wides so unfortunately I cannot help with the last question.


----------



## Sevenfeet

Denon usually makes good stuff, but every now and then there can be trouble. I once had a receiver a few years ago (a 1709 or something like that) and I went through three of them before giving up and getting the next model, a 1610. The older unit had this nasty habit of blowing it's circuitry, usually quite spectacularly. Contrast that with my old standby, a Denon 3805 which has been flawless.


----------



## phillihp23

Looking to add my final 2 speakers to my theater (front heights) for a full 11.2 experiance.
Was wondering if anyone could confirm that I can do the following:
I want to run 9 amplification off of my Denon 4520CI as such,
Front Wide towers x2
Front Heights x2
Sides x2
Rear x2
Center x1
Can you assign the Denon to amplify those channels and then run my x2 front towers off of a Emotiva XPA-2 ?

If so what cables do I use to connect the Denon reciever to the Emotiva XPA-2?


----------



## kingpin748

phillihp23 said:


> Looking to add my final 2 speakers to my theater (front heights) for a full 11.2 experiance.
> Was wondering if anyone could confirm that I can do the following:
> I want to run 9 amplification off of my Denon 4520CI as such,
> Front Wide towers x2
> Front Heights x2
> Sides x2
> Rear x2
> Center x1
> Can you assign the Denon to amplify those channels and then run my x2 front towers off of a Emotiva XPA-2 ?
> 
> If so what cables do I use to connect the Denon reciever to the Emotiva XPA-2?


Should be a set of RCA Preouts that run to the Emotiva if I recall. Should be laid out in the owners manual.

Edit:
Yeah it's all laid out starting on page 97 of the manual. You hook it all up as normal for a 11.1 including the FHs and FWs but leave the FL & FR empty. Then run the FL & FR preouts to the external amp using RCA. From there you go into speaker setup and tell it which speakers are going to the external amplifier which are the FL & FR in this case. You would then hook up the FL & FR speaker wires to the Emotiva.

Seriously though, the manual has pictures and explains it much better than I do. Make sure to update your firmware prior to all this and run Audyssey when everything is hooked up. Should be cool.


----------



## phillihp23

So would the Denon 4520CI control the volume for all 11 channels or would i have to control the volume of 2 channels through the Emotiva Amplifier?

Sorry for the questions i have never used a Amplifier in conjunction with a reciever before.


----------



## NBPk402

phillihp23 said:


> So would the Denon 4520CI control the volume for all 11 channels or would i have to control the volume of 2 channels through the Emotiva Amplifier?
> 
> Sorry for the questions i have never used a Amplifier in conjunction with a reciever before.


The Denon will control the volume for all the channels hooked up to it... Just think of it as a preamp for all the channels with 2 of them being hooked up to your separate power amp and the rest being internally cabled.


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## Jungle Jack

phillihp23 said:


> So would the Denon 4520CI control the volume for all 11 channels or would i have to control the volume of 2 channels through the Emotiva Amplifier?
> 
> Sorry for the questions i have never used a Amplifier in conjunction with a reciever before.


I cannot wait to read your impressions of using an 11.1 (or 11.2) setup. I too would use the Emotiva to drive your mains (front L/R).



ellisr63 said:


> The Denon will control the volume for all the channels hooked up to it... Just think of it as a preamp for all the channels with 2 of them being hooked up to your separate power amp and the rest being internally cabled.


Indeed.


----------



## phillihp23

Thanks for the feeback Kingpin 748 /ellisr63 /Jungle Jack ! As always the HTS forum members continue to be a helpfull and knowledgeable community. I ordered a bunch of stuff to add in the extra speakers (speaker wire, mounts, wall plates, etc.). Will let you all know my impressions after adding the Front Heights. If its anything at all like when i added the front wides it will only make the theater experience more immersive.


----------



## kingpin748

phillihp23 said:


> So would the Denon 4520CI control the volume for all 11 channels or would i have to control the volume of 2 channels through the Emotiva Amplifier?
> 
> Sorry for the questions i have never used a Amplifier in conjunction with a reciever before.


You would probably use the tones to level match the FR & FL to the rest of the system using the volume control on the Emotiva. Once that's done you should just be able to use the Denon volume as it will control the RCA preouts you plugged into the Emotiva. Or at least that's how it worked on my car stereo which is basically the same thing.

Actually, once you get it close enough Audyssey should probably be able to handle it. It automatically handles level matching the speakers or whatever as far as I know.


----------



## loc4me

Anyone using the rear IR jack? I'm having an issue with turning on the 4520 via the rear IR input jack. I have a Harmony One paired with a Xantech IR distribution block and everything works once powered on. I dont believe its an issue with Harmony as I can just use the Xantech IR repeater system with the factory remote and it will still not turn the unit on when the rear IR input jack is used.

There is a firmware change log in post #4 of the official 4520 thread over on AVS that says this was fixed in the very first firmware. I'm running the latest firmware so I'm not sure what the problem is.


----------



## phillihp23

kingpin748 said:


> You would probably use the tones to level match the FR & FL to the rest of the system using the volume control on the Emotiva. Once that's done you should just be able to use the Denon volume as it will control the RCA preouts you plugged into the Emotiva. Or at least that's how it worked on my car stereo which is basically the same thing.
> 
> Actually, once you get it close enough Audyssey should probably be able to handle it. It automatically handles level matching the speakers or whatever as far as I know.


Thanks for the input. You are correct that Audyssey automatically handles it.


----------



## Rick R

Hi Folks,
I have aquired in the last month a 4520 and found having been a relatively high end Pioneer AVR owner for many years, a bit of a steep learning curve.

It is settling in nicely after a good period of use followed by a second Audyssey calibration and beginning to sound really good on music, was pretty good from the start with movies. I always find a settling in period both for the kit and for the new owner is required. It is proving to be a pretty good piece of kit and getting accolades from my usual reference listeners some of who are or have been musicians.

Being lddude: I can't remember if I initially put on the sound restorer in the various modes, I don't think I did and am guessing it was on from default. So now it is off everywhere and for me that has been a very basic but necessary requirement as most of the inputs used are fairly high quality (Oppo 95 for movies and analog music). My room is awkward and very damped so some processing is necessary, but I prefer to keep it to a minium.

I have a few questions on what others may have found to be ideal settings but I will bring these in, in stages, as I remember them rather than a whole batch at once and would appreciate any comments and advice on this fairly complex beast.

I think the first question is. - Is there any way to save *only* the Audyssey calibration settings to a laptop/PC. I have done a couple of saves but am under the impression that saves the full AVR set up not just the Audyssey settings.

I'll note down any other questions I have as I meet them. I think on most of the audio side I have it sorted except for saving settings like dialogue enahancer for which I prefer high on Dolby Digital, but wonder if there is a short cut to save going into the set up menu each time you want to change it I seem to remember reading somewhere in that monster of a manual that this could be done.

Thanks

Rick


----------



## Rick R

^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
Update, being trying for quite a while to lay my hands on Amy Winehouse 'Back to Black', I don't like all she does but some is a bit special. It arrived today and of course it had to be tested  So on with the 4520 and the Oppo 95 in analog stereo. On several of the tracks I noticed real atmosphere, almost like being there with both her and the instrumentals just superb. But wait there was something wrong :scratch: what was that knocking sound, then I realised my foot was quite happily tapping away totally without my knowledge, so I must have got something right in the setup, really far more musical than the Pioneer (a really decent receiver) that preceeded it. 

I have heard this same atmosphere over the last couple of days on music both on analog and bitstream from the Oppo I think maybe the dacs in the Oppo are slightly better but it is a tough call but clearly the 4520 is settling down nicely just in time for Christmas.

That reminds me, a Merry Christmas to all (especially you Sonnie for that superb review that caused me such expense) and of course me being in Scotland have a very happy and prosperous New Year to everyone, lang mey yer lum reek :innocent:

Rick


----------



## jmspiderman

Rick R said:


> ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^ ^^^^^^
> Update, being trying for quite a while to lay my hands on Amy Winehouse 'Back to Black', I don't like all she does but some is a bit special. It arrived today and of course it had to be tested  So on with the 4520 and the Oppo 95 in analog stereo. On several of the tracks I noticed real atmosphere, almost like being there with both her and the instrumentals just superb. But wait there was something wrong :scratch: what was that knocking sound, then I realised my foot was quite happily tapping away totally without my knowledge, so I must have got something right in the setup, really far more musical than the Pioneer (a really decent receiver) that preceeded it.
> 
> I have heard this same atmosphere over the last couple of days on music both on analog and bitstream from the Oppo I think maybe the dacs in the Oppo are slightly better but it is a tough call but clearly the 4520 is settling down nicely just in time for Christmas.
> 
> That reminds me, a Merry Christmas to all (especially you Sonnie for that superb review that caused me such expense) and of course me being in Scotland have a very happy and prosperous New Year to everyone, lang mey yer lum reek :innocent:
> 
> Rick


Hi Rick and which speakers you are using with the Denon?


----------



## Rick R

jmspiderman said:


> Hi Rick and which speakers you are using with the Denon?


Hi jmspiderman,

Nothing very special that is an upgrade that will have to wait. But they are Maudant Short Aviano 6 for the mains and Aviano 2 for surrounds and surround backs and a Wharfedale Diamond 10CM for center and a BK Electronics XLS200 sub (specialist UK sub manufacturer). The sub will stay when an upgrade does happen, physically quite small but have had to wind it back considerably for the 4520 it is now about 40% of full volume, I have measured it down to 16Hz at 3dB below reference so it ain't bad :nerd:. The Aviano 6 are full range spec to 38Hz but go down further in practice, the Aviano all perform quite well for their price, guess they would be considered mid range but seem to perform outside their price bracket to the extent I prefer them to the Magneplanars they replaced, they took a long time to bed in though. The cabinet finish is not as nice as I would like but the drivers which are apparently used in some of their top models look a bit special. I did suffer some overpowering resonant bass in the room on two isolated tracks from different artists with the Pioneer AVR and the Aviano 6 but the 4520 has brought this nicely undercontrol and these tracks are now thankfully really enjoyable. The system is sounding quite good and auditioning speakers I always find is a long and exhausting process and always the most difficult component to select for an AV system requiring home demos and very understanding dealers.

I would be interested to hear what you are using, it may give me ideas for when I can get authority and pluck up the courage for a speaker upgrade:innocent:


----------



## gadgetfreak

7hrs troubleshooting I'm ready to throw this thing out the window..

It worked great for the first 2 days. I was having some HDMI issues on a 60ft redmere monoprice run, but it eventually showed a great picture and worked great. When I then unplugged it and tried to put in a Darbee, everything went sideways. Now, no matter what I do I can't get a picture out of the 4520. I have a small TV I dragged over to the rack, tried 5 cables all of which will show my roku, control4, or boxee to the TV directly. But if I pass thru to the Denon I get no picture. I've done the microprocessor reset, unplugged everything and plugged back in but nothing.

Suggestions?


----------



## mcascio

The Redmere cables have to be wired properly. One side of the cable is labelled TV. Make sure you have it plugged in correctly or just flip flop the cable.


----------



## Rick R

gadgetfreak said:


> 7hrs troubleshooting I'm ready to throw this thing out the window..
> 
> It worked great for the first 2 days. I was having some HDMI issues on a 60ft redmere monoprice run, but it eventually showed a great picture and worked great. When I then unplugged it and tried to put in a Darbee, everything went sideways. Now, no matter what I do I can't get a picture out of the 4520. I have a small TV I dragged over to the rack, tried 5 cables all of which will show my roku, control4, or boxee to the TV directly. But if I pass thru to the Denon I get no picture. I've done the microprocessor reset, unplugged everything and plugged back in but nothing.
> 
> Suggestions?


Don't know how much I can help here as I am a fairly new owner as well and I don't use Darbee. I had a quick look for Darbee and found there were some reviews on Amazon.com, in the second review the guy has had several problems, might be worth a read.

What I am wondering and I am assuming you don't have a 4K projector or TV and it might be stupid I know, but has the resolution been accidently switched to 4K, it happened to me with an Oppo 103, it inadvertantly got set to 4K resolution and I had just a black screen and it took me a while to work out what had happened. I would have thought a full microprocesser reset would have set resolution to default (which I think is auto), but it might not have. I am also assuming you can't now see the set up menu's via HDMI on the TV so I guess there are two ways to see the menu and that is either from the front panel display (not so easy to go through if you are not familiar) or by plugging a tv into the analog monitor output to check all the settings but in particular the HDMI output resolution. It maybe also worth at this point if you can see the menu's to turn off all the video processing in the 4520 and just have it on pass through. You could also enable the second HDMI output, if it isn't already, to see if the monitor 1 HDMI output has gone defective.

I can only imagine how frustrating this must be, particularly as when working properly both from the point of PQ and AQ this beast is a top notch performer.

I personally don't use any additional enhancement devices, the third reviewer on Amazon likened using the Darbee to adding +1 to the sharpness on an Oppo. I keep my video chain as simple as possible and use the Spears and Munsil set up disc and a light meter to set up my displays with the Oppo set to default as the reference source and have found the results to be extremely natural, which is my preference but everyone to his own.

Next time I am in front of the 4520, a little later today, I will have a look and if I think of anything I'll post. Sure some others will chime in when they have recovered from the celebrations.

Best of luck and hope you manage to get it sorted


----------



## phillihp23

I randomly for some reason decide today to go into the 4520 setup and see if there were any updates to the firmware etc...

My settings are to alert me when updates are available, and i usually see them and do the update. Apparently for some reason i did not get this alert....

Firmware update version 3325-3843-4485
So out of curiosity i scoured the web trying to find out when this update came out, as the denon menu and website don't appear to list it anywhere...that i could find anyway.

So i found this info on a site:
9/9/2013 (3325-3843-4485)
- Random Feature in Spotify follows to Pandora.
- The source doesn't change into SiriusXM even if SiriusXM is selected by Apps.
- "File Format Error" and "Track Not Found" are displayed by playing a specific iRadio station, and, if "Enter" is pushed, the display becomes empty "PlayView".
- After the firmware is updated, the device is not found via the ios application.
- Airplay does not play the sound synchronously with sound on the PC and other Airplay devices, e.g. B&W A5, A7, Air.

Anyone else not getting the updates available notification on your Denon AVR4520CI....This irks me, especially since it came out months ago.


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## NBPk402

I didn't receive the notice either... But I did get the one you listed a while back. I just happened to look and found it even though it didn't notify me like the earlier versions did.


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## phillihp23

ellisr63 said:


> I didn't receive the notice either... But I did get the one you listed a while back. I just happened to look and found it even though it didn't notify me like the earlier versions did.


Thanks for the feedback. So at least I know I'm not alone, or having a AVR issue. Wonder if Denon is aware of this issue, hopefully they are and the new firmware fixes the notification issue.


----------



## Rick R

phillihp23 said:


> I randomly for some reason decide today to go into the 4520 setup and see if there were any updates to the firmware etc...
> 
> My settings are to alert me when updates are available, and i usually see them and do the update. Apparently for some reason i did not get this alert....
> 
> Firmware update version 3325-3843-4485
> So out of curiosity i scoured the web trying to find out when this update came out, as the denon menu and website don't appear to list it anywhere...that i could find anyway.
> 
> So i found this info on a site:
> 9/9/2013 (3325-3843-4485)
> - Random Feature in Spotify follows to Pandora.
> - The source doesn't change into SiriusXM even if SiriusXM is selected by Apps.
> - "File Format Error" and "Track Not Found" are displayed by playing a specific iRadio station, and, if "Enter" is pushed, the display becomes empty "PlayView".
> - After the firmware is updated, the device is not found via the ios application.
> - Airplay does not play the sound synchronously with sound on the PC and other Airplay devices, e.g. B&W A5, A7, Air.
> 
> Anyone else not getting the updates available notification on your Denon AVR4520CI....This irks me, especially since it came out months ago.


Having no problems with updates, when I first got the 4520 just over a month ago I got notification and the update downloaded no problem, this update dated 10th Sept 2013 covers some of the same issues you refer to but is a different number and covers issues with spotify, web control and aspect ratio on the PAL TV setting . Your post did cause me to check but I am in Europe so the firmware is different. Here I just go into the Denon site enter the model number, color and serial number and the firmware with changelog and other information is there to download. Having checked the the AVR which indicated it was up to date and then the download confirmed that it was the same version. So I was a happy bunny :T maybe there is a problem with the Denon US web site, has anyone contacted them to find out the score, I would suggest this is fairly important as there is a caution against updating the firmware by USB on the Euro web site which states it may necessary for a full AVR reset after a USB update  and they recommend only updating via the internet, not a procedure I particularly like as so many things can go wrong with a live update, but that's better than a full reset (particularly if you haven't done a system backup, I use belts and braces and copy the backup to CD as well :nerd


----------



## Rick R

Dolby Playback

I was running a couple of BD with Dolby Digital True HD tracks (Super 8 and the first Transformers) and found the whole experience very underwhelming compared to my previous experience, the train wreck was still pretty painful but everything else seemed flat and dialogue difficult to hear. So much to the other half's annoyance checked the settings whilst the discs were playing, only to find that unlike DTS MA there were additional settings in the Sound Parameter and these are only visible with a Dolby encoded disc actually playing. Loudness management was on Dynamic compression was on and set to auto so set them all to off and we were back to normal. For Super 8, I have for the sake of my hearing and speakers set the Dynamic compression to low the train wreck is still pretty dynamic and painful without a little volume reduction but at least the speakers remain intact and the wife has stopped hiding in the hall :gulp:. Anyone else had this experience with Dolby on the 4520


----------



## ALMFamily

Rick R said:


> Dolby Playback
> 
> I was running a couple of BD with Dolby Digital True HD tracks (Super 8 and the first Transformers) and found the whole experience very underwhelming compared to my previous experience, the train wreck was still pretty painful but everything else seemed flat and dialogue difficult to hear. So much to the other half's annoyance checked the settings whilst the discs were playing, only to find that unlike DTS MA there were additional settings in the Sound Parameter and these are only visible with a Dolby encoded disc actually playing. Loudness management was on Dynamic compression was on and set to auto so set them all to off and we were back to normal. For Super 8, I have for the sake of my hearing and speakers set the Dynamic compression to low the train wreck is still pretty dynamic and painful without a little volume reduction but at least the speakers remain intact and the wife has stopped hiding in the hall :gulp:. Anyone else had this experience with Dolby on the 4520


Wish I had the time to check that out as the difference sounds pretty significant. Sooooo much movie watching to do once I am done with all my projects... :bigsmile:


----------



## Rick R

ALMFamily said:


> Wish I had the time to check that out as the difference sounds pretty significant. Sooooo much movie watching to do once I am done with all my projects... :bigsmile:


Page 121 of the monsterous manual has the details and only takes a few seconds to check. Soooo many movies, particularly Dolby encoded ones, can be ruined by poor or incorrect sound settings IMHO, some of which appear to be set intially automatically by Dolby, however once the changes are made with the disc live (playing) they remain for all the Dolby encoded discs until changed. Think I have this beast about sorted now at least for all the usual sources and is sounding really good. Still maybe a bit of fine tuning fiddling to be done but that is what this hobby is about onder: but at last in recent years (with age comes some wisdom) I have learned to stop listening to the kit and started listening to and enjoying the music/soundtrack


----------



## phillihp23

Just did my update...or shall i say in progress  This one takes a good 45 minutes...

Firmware 3525-8853-5475

Important Message About Netflix And Dolby Digital Plus Audio Signals
January 29,2014

Dear Denon Customer,

Please be advised that we have identified an issue with some Netflix devices transmitting Dolby Digital Plus audio signals to our audio video receivers. We will start rolling out an online firmware update to correct the problem with effected models towards the end of February, staggering the update between models into March . In the meantime, setting your Netflix device’s digital audio output to PCM or Stereo should temporarily alleviate the issue.

We appreciate your continued patience as we work to resolve this issue.


Denon Customer Service

Firmware Updates
February 20: AVR-X3000, AVR-X4000, AVR-4520CI
February 27: AVR-X1000, AVR-E300
March 6: AVR-E400, AVR-X2000
March 13: AVR-2113, AVR-1913
March 19: AVR-3313, AVR-2313
March 27: AVR-1613, AVR-1713


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## BeeMan458

Our 4520CI system is working fine and being a techno chicken, I ain't updating nothin.

...


----------



## Rick R

For anyone using Mozilla Firefox and finding a problem backing up the settings because the browser times out with the latest versions. There is a solution I emailed Denon who replied very quickly with some suggestions but before they did I checked on line and found lots of people suffering from the timeout problem with several applications.

Versions 29 and 30 of this browser are timing out the link after 5 minutes (my last backup was done with version 28 which is why I have not experienced it before) but the AVR requires around 10 minutes. I have carried out some tests based on recommendations found on the Firefox sites which sorted my problem. Below are my notes for my future reference which others may find useful

My solution as follows

This time out whilst trying to download the Config.dat file is a problem caused by Firefox response time out settings in the latest versions being set to 5 mins (this was not set in versions 28 and earlier so I am informed). To reconfigure, in the URL bar or address bar type 'about:config' accept the warning about 'Here Be Dragons' and be careful :yikes:. Scroll down to *'network.http.response.timeout' * and make sure it is exactly as shown in the quotes, (but without the quotes) there are others that look very similar. In Firefox versions 29 and 30 this has been set to 300 seconds (5mins). Click on the line and set to any desired time out in seconds. I used 3000 (50mins) but I would suggest 1500 would probably be OK as that would give 25 minutes more than adequate for the 4520 backup. This setting has resolved the config.dat time out for the AVR 4520 for me.


----------



## Hakka

Thanks Rick.


----------



## phillihp23

Connection issue with Sirius Radio. Anyone else having this problem? It logs in, it lets me select the channel and then it seems to freeze...and no sound?


----------



## djlittlewonder

It's official! Just picked it up, hi everyone.
I just realized the hardest decision is what movie should be the first?


----------



## JBrax

djlittlewonder said:


> It's official! Just picked it up, hi everyone. I just realized the hardest decision is what movie should be the first?


Transformersark of Moon or Lone Survivor would be my picks. Chapter 17 of Transformers DOM is amazing!


----------



## B- one

djlittlewonder said:


> It's official! Just picked it up, hi everyone. I just realized the hardest decision is what movie should be the first?


Transformers DOTM one of my faves! Pink Floyd's The Wall, I also like the newer Bond films for a good cranking!


----------



## djlittlewonder

I also ordered Klipsch RB-61 II's for rear surround, but forgot to order speaker wire at the same time... I used some old cables. Finished hooking up everything temporarily around 9:30pm, too late to run Audyssey. Just listening to Internet Radio, trying to get the hang of the options. Will definitely check out Dark Side of the Moon tomorrow.


----------



## JBrax

djlittlewonder said:


> I also ordered Klipsch RB-61 II's for rear surround, but forgot to order speaker wire at the same time... I used some old cables. Finished hooking up everything temporarily around 9:30pm, too late to run Audyssey. Just listening to Internet Radio, trying to get the hang of the options. Will definitely check out Dark Side of the Moon tomorrow.


Very nice choice on your surrounds! Do them and your other speakers some justice and slap on some high res music. Do you have any Blu-ray music? I would highly suggest Dave Mathew and Tim Reynolds Live.


----------



## djlittlewonder

Thoughts so far: the on/off trigger is very cool. My old Onkyo 1007 had it but wouldn't automatically turn on or off. I had to add a command in the Harmony remote. The HDMI audio passthrough is cool, it let's me watch late night tv without having all the speakers, subs, amp, and receiver on. Everything is just so much nicer then my old Onkyo. 

I'm doing the update now (56 mins) before bed.

Side question, who uses zone 3, 4 and for what? I have Sonos and find it more than enough for audio in every room.


----------



## Rick R

My Denon AVR-4520CI is still carrying out it's duties in great style and I have no intention of replacing it soon having no real interest in Atmos (and wouldn't be allowed the additional speakers anyway) and here we come to the topic of this post. In order to do better justice to the Denon I have purchased replacement front speakers, the new Tannoy Revolution XT8F and although still bedding in sound every bit as good as I expected. However in my initial search for these I ran across some articles to do with speaker impedance which interested me because my original front mains were 4ohm and the new ones are 8ohm.

According to these articles I have been doing it wrong I have been switching the speaker impedance setting to 4ohm as specified in the manual and by Denon. These articles however claim that by doing this the voltage on PA power rail on most 4ohm capable AVR's is reduced to prevent excessive current being drawn (and also to meet some maximum operating temperature related legislation) and at higher volume levels will result in distortion that may damage the loudspeakers. I have to say I am regarding these articles with some suspicion because as I note below the speaker impedance matching on this AVR does not seem and I emphasise seem to be achieved by reducing the PA rail voltage. I am in the process of querying this with Denon and hopefully they will be able to give me a reply that does not contravene their confidentiality rules but tells me how it is achieved, on the few occasions I have had to speak to them they are usually excellent and I have a good relationship with them having provided them with some help on a networking subject they had no information on. 

First I have not noted any distortion either on my old speakers or the new ones and I am inclined to listen sometimes at fairly elevated levels the setting has remained at 4ohms because other speakers in the system are either 6ohm or 4ohm. With the new 8ohm front speakers installed I did try setting the speaker impedance to 8ohm and tested with all channels driven (all channel stereo) at moderate levels and checked with both a contact electronic thermometer and an infra red one. I compared the temperatures around the case with the setting at 4ohm and apart from the area above the PSU where 37 deg C was measured a maximum of 28 deg C was measured. However with the setting at 8ohm there was a significant (not excessive I don't think) temperature rise to some parts achieving 42deg C and the rest between 35deg C to 39deg C. All in general a little warm for my liking as the whole test did not really take more than an hour and a half. I suspect that with a movie like San Andreas things might have got warmer still. So for now, to prevent the possibility of damage to the AVR, I am back to running with the setting at 4ohm as neither I nor others have heard any sign of distortion in this mode..

I did some calculations ( a bit unorthodox I guess and may not even be meaningful :dumbcrazy: ) to get an idea of what might be happening to the PA rail voltage without opening the receiver (still in warranty) using the published specifications. I did not have sufficient information for 4ohm operation but the calculation tends to indicate there is no change in the PA rail voltage switching between 8ohm and 6ohm which appears to be 34V and around what I would reasonably expect it to be.

I will update this post when I know more but would be interested to hear if other owners with other than 8ohm speakers are adjusting the speaker impedance or not on this AVR


----------



## needspeed52

LEAVE THE IMPEDANCE SETTING AT 8 OHMS :T

You can read the entire article on this subject if you like, I reco watching the 5 minute video concerning this exact subject with Gene and Hugo.............the video is on the first page of the article with the skeleton. 

http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1

I hope this helps, it should answer all your questions, it did for me when I changed speakers........

Enjoy and good luck

GO STEELERS.............

Cheers Jeffrey


----------



## Rick R

needspeed52 said:


> LEAVE THE IMPEDANCE SETTING AT 8 OHMS :T
> 
> You can read the entire article on this subject if you like, I reco watching the 5 minute video concerning this exact subject with Gene and Hugo.............the video is on the first page of the article with the skeleton.
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/audio-amplifier/impedance-selector-switch-1
> 
> I hope this helps, it should answer all your questions, it did for me when I changed speakers........
> 
> Enjoy and good luck
> 
> GO STEELERS.............
> 
> Cheers Jeffrey


Hi Jeffrey,
Thanks for the information, I had actually seen the video as well a a couple of articles on the subject and that is what started me on this mission and I fully understood where they were coming from. As a retired engineer in this and similar fields, what concerned me most was the *fairly significant increase in temperature when set to 8ohm *even though running at moderate volume. Both the 4520 and an older Pioneer AVR both run fairly cool normally on the very same 4 ohm speakers.

I am going to dig further but what I am keen to find out is what Denon actually do in this particular model to cope with 6 and 4 ohm speakers. 

I installed recently a Denon AVR 2200W for friends and that actually appears to run quite hot normally so that is another mission to measure find out what temperature it is actually functioning at

Thanks again 

Rick


----------



## needspeed52

Rick R said:


> Hi Jeffrey,
> Thanks for the information, I had actually seen the video as well a a couple of articles on the subject and that is what started me on this mission and I fully understood where they were coming from. As a retired engineer in this and similar fields, what concerned me most was the *fairly significant increase in temperature when set to 8ohm *even though running at moderate volume. Both the 4520 and an older Pioneer AVR both run fairly cool normally on the very same 4 ohm speakers.
> 
> I am going to dig further but what I am keen to find out is what Denon actually do in this particular model to cope with 6 and 4 ohm speakers.
> 
> I installed recently a Denon AVR 2200W for friends and that actually appears to run quite hot normally so that is another mission to measure find out what temperature it is actually functioning at
> 
> Thanks again
> 
> Rick


Rick, you're very welcome, I'm not very familiar with Denon receivers especially the 4520, I have a Onkyo 1010 that runs warm to hot no matter what speakers I use, I have 200 mm fans on top to draw the heat from the unit and it runs really cool. I have used 6 & 4 Ohm speakers with this model, the impedance selector switch offers 6 & 4 only, I use the 6 Ohm only even with 4 Ohm speakers with lots of head room left even at moderate to high levels.

I would definitely pursue (4520) the significant increase in heat produced running in 8 Ohm mode with 4 Ohm speakers. How does it sound in 8 Ohm mode when running 4 Ohm speakers, did you notice any difference in SQ, distortion or lack of authority with dynamics, rhythm and pace? Seems the heat is your main concern.

What are other folks saying about this that own the 4520, should get some feedback from other owners if this heat issue is a problem. Personally I believe this is normal, but like I said I'm not at all familiar with the 4520.

Regards, Jeffrey


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## Rick R

needspeed52 said:


> Rick, you're very welcome, I'm not very familiar with Denon receivers especially the 4520, I have a Onkyo 1010 that runs warm to hot no matter what speakers I use, I have 200 mm fans on top to draw the heat from the unit and it runs really cool. I have used 6 & 4 Ohm speakers with this model, the impedance selector switch offers 6 & 4 only, I use the 6 Ohm only even with 4 Ohm speakers with lots of head room left even at moderate to high levels.
> 
> I would definitely pursue (4520) the significant increase in heat produced running in 8 Ohm mode with 4 Ohm speakers. How does it sound in 8 Ohm mode when running 4 Ohm speakers, did you notice any difference in SQ, distortion or lack of authority with dynamics, rhythm and pace? Seems the heat is your main concern.
> 
> What are other folks saying about this that own the 4520, should get some feedback from other owners if this heat issue is a problem. Personally I believe this is normal, but like I said I'm not at all familiar with the 4520.
> 
> Regards, Jeffrey


Hi Jeffrey,
Yes I was aware the Onkyo's tend to run a bit warm.
With regard to the 4520 (similar in most respects to the current 7200 but no atmos) tis a bit of a beast with bags of power on tap. With the impedance set to 8ohm on four ohm speakers there is no discernible distortion or lack of dynamics sounds great it just runs warmer in a well ventilated rack (open all sides). Maybe in that configuration 40deg C (104deg F) is quite normal it is just that most of my AVR's over recent years two Pioneers (both relatively upper end ) and the Denon 4520 have run pretty cool under 30deg C (86deg F) both set to 6ohm or 4ohm respectively. The Pio on the 4ohm speakers is in my den and I am currently listening to it is sitting at 28deg C just now albeit not playing loudly. In addition I have had 4ohm speakers for so long (maggies preceded the current Maudant Shorts now on the Pio) that I had almost forgotten what an 8ohm speaker was:unbelievable:

Having nice new shiny 8ohm speakers as the main front pair and the rest 4ohm apart from the centre I thought I would try this as apart from the centre the rest of the surround speakers don't generally work very hard at all. Maybe I am making mountains out of molehills and 104F is quite acceptable but then again that is why I thought I would post this to see what other owners experience is and their thoughts.

All the best 

Rick


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## needspeed52

Rick R said:


> Hi Jeffrey,
> Yes I was aware the Onkyo's tend to run a bit warm.
> With regard to the 4520 (similar in most respects to the current 7200 but no atmos) tis a bit of a beast with bags of power on tap. With the impedance set to 8ohm on four ohm speakers there is no discernible distortion or lack of dynamics sounds great it just runs warmer in a well ventilated rack (open all sides). Maybe in that configuration 40deg C (104deg F) is quite normal it is just that most of my AVR's over recent years two Pioneers (both relatively upper end ) and the Denon 4520 have run pretty cool under 30deg C (86deg F) both set to 6ohm or 4ohm respectively. The Pio on the 4ohm speakers is in my den and I am currently listening to it is sitting at 28deg C just now albeit not playing loudly. In addition I have had 4ohm speakers for so long (maggies preceded the current Maudant Shorts now on the Pio) that I had almost forgotten what an 8ohm speaker was:unbelievable:
> 
> Having nice new shiny 8ohm speakers as the main front pair and the rest 4ohm apart from the centre I thought I would try this as apart from the centre the rest of the surround speakers don't generally work very hard at all. Maybe I am making mountains out of molehills and 104F is quite acceptable but then again that is why I thought I would post this to see what other owners experience is and their thoughts.
> 
> All the best
> 
> Rick


Rick I think you answered your own question: tis a bit of a beast with bags of power on tap. The 4520 is known for driving difficult loads, I think the heat issue is a moot point and perfectly normal, just my opinion. My Onkyo 1010 is also a beast with plenty of power to spare, it gets warm at idle, solution is 2 200mm fans and problem solved. Keep the molehill mentality and I think you will be just fine. As long as your rack is open on all sides or has plenty of ventilation space you'll be just fine, relax and enjoy you setup my friend, if it sounds good, don't try to fix or break it.......:T

Cheers Jeffrey


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## Rick R

needspeed52 said:


> Rick I think you answered your own question: tis a bit of a beast with bags of power on tap. The 4520 is known for driving difficult loads, I think the heat issue is a moot point and perfectly normal, just my opinion. My Onkyo 1010 is also a beast with plenty of power to spare, it gets warm at idle, solution is 2 200mm fans and problem solved. Keep the molehill mentality and I think you will be just fine. As long as your rack is open on all sides or has plenty of ventilation space you'll be just fine, relax and enjoy you setup my friend, if it sounds good, don't try to fix or break it.......:T
> 
> Cheers Jeffrey


Hi Jeffrey
Yes I think you are right, I generally tell others 'if it ain't broke don't mend it :nono:' time to follow my own advice and yours. 

Thanks and best wishes

Rick


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## Savjac

I have this AVR and it runs quite warm even into my very efficient speakers, but it never breaks, shuts off or does any other maladies other than click when I turn the volume up and down and I have no clue why. This is a very large receiver.


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## needspeed52

Rick R said:


> Hi Jeffrey
> Yes I think you are right, I generally tell others 'if it ain't broke don't mend it :nono:' time to follow my own advice and yours.
> 
> Thanks and best wishes
> 
> Rick


Right back at you my friend, RELAX and enjoy........:sn:

Regards, Jeffrey


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## needspeed52

Savjac said:


> I have this AVR and it runs quite warm even into my very efficient speakers, but it never breaks, shuts off or does any other maladies other than click when I turn the volume up and down and I have no clue why. This is a very large receiver.


Like I said my Onkyo 1010 is also very large @ 51 pounds as well, it's warm at idle kind of like my big Panny plasma, I had to put 4 200mm fans on the rear and it stays nice and cool. That malady you speak of with the clicking volume control is really unusual and never encountered it. Like you said other than that it's just fine.

Hey Rick now you have confirmation from Savjac that the 4520 runs warm with even easy loads so just leave well enough alone and enjoy.

Jeffrey


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## Rick R

Savjac said:


> I have this AVR and it runs quite warm even into my very efficient speakers, but it never breaks, shuts off or does any other maladies other than click when I turn the volume up and down and I have no clue why. This is a very large receiver.


Hi Savjac, Thanks for your input very useful information, my two new front speakers are also more efficient than average. The click you mention when you turn the volume up and down is not something I have experienced. From memory I only get a click on power up or muting. Like you I have experienced no problems but was just wondering about the apparent increase in temperature under certain impedance settings, but as you have confirmed it can run quite warm, so thanks again for your response.




needspeed52 said:


> Like I said my Onkyo 1010 is also very large @ 51 pounds as well, it's warm at idle kind of like my big Panny plasma, I had to put 4 200mm fans on the rear and it stays nice and cool. That malady you speak of with the clicking volume control is really unusual and never encountered it. Like you said other than that it's just fine.
> 
> Hey Rick now you have confirmation from Savjac that the 4520 runs warm with even easy loads so just leave well enough alone and enjoy.
> 
> Jeffrey


Hi Jeffrey, thanks again

Rick


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## needspeed52

Rick R said:


> Hi Savjac, Thanks for your input very useful information, my two new front speakers are also more efficient than average. The click you mention when you turn the volume up and down is not something I have experienced. From memory I only get a click on power up or muting. Like you I have experienced no problems but was just wondering about the apparent increase in temperature under certain impedance settings, but as you have confirmed it can run quite warm, so thanks again for your response.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jeffrey, thanks again
> 
> Rick


You're more than welcome Rick, I enjoyed the discussion, that's what this forum is all about.

Best Regards, Jeffrey


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## Savjac

Rick R said:


> Hi Savjac, Thanks for your input very useful information, my two new front speakers are also more efficient than average. The click you mention when you turn the volume up and down is not something I have experienced. From memory I only get a click on power up or muting. Like you I have experienced no problems but was just wondering about the apparent increase in temperature under certain impedance settings, but as you have confirmed it can run quite warm, so thanks again for your response.
> 
> Rick


Thank You for your response. The clicking started after I sent the unit in for a dusting and cleaning, it came back working fine except for the clicking. It took me almost 3 months to get it back from the dusting and cleaning so I do not wish to send it back for a check up, so I will live with the little noises.

Be Well


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## Rick R

Savjac said:


> Thank You for your response. The clicking started after I sent the unit in for a dusting and cleaning, it came back working fine except for the clicking. It took me almost 3 months to get it back from the dusting and cleaning so I do not wish to send it back for a check up, so I will live with the little noises.
> 
> Be Well





needspeed52 said:


> Like I said my Onkyo 1010 is also very large @ 51 pounds as well, it's warm at idle kind of like my big Panny plasma, I had to put 4 200mm fans on the rear and it stays nice and cool. That malady you speak of with the clicking volume control is really unusual and never encountered it. Like you said other than that it's just fine.
> 
> Hey Rick now you have confirmation from Savjac that the 4520 runs warm with even easy loads so just leave well enough alone and enjoy.
> 
> Jeffrey


Hi guys
Just thought I would update on progress. Been running the 4520 now since our discussion on 8ohm and everything is fine. I had a thought about my 42deg C and being an lddude: that seemed warm till I looked at it in old money :surprise: that is only 107.6 deg F barely a warm day in some places that is seriously not running hot, maybe I was having a brainstorm or something.

Meantime now may the fun begin I have finally gotten round to getting me a miniDSP UMIK1 microphone, after all the time of messing about with an unknown mic and cheap SPL meter, my first and only run, so far, with this and REW was a quick speaker sweep. Eureka at last results, and pleasing ones too, that looked like what I expected to see from the speaker spec and could feel comfortable and confident about. OK this item is a bit more expensive here than in the US but if the above is anything to go by really worth it. Right, away now to do an exploratory exploration of the Den's sonic anomalies before I start the main system.

All the best

Rick


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## phillihp23

Noticed today the latest update was ready to install.
Firmware 3525-8853-5460


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## Rick R

Nice one thanks for the heads up, didn't think we were going to get any more. Will go and check and see if it is applicable to the UK as well.
Have not been on the forum for a while, too many things been going on. I have peeked in occasionally but had no time to post comments. In fact so busy have resigned from a couple but going to stay here, like the folks and like the forum. Just hope things are going to ease up. Family weddings, parts of the family moving, grandson and grandson-in-law (think that's right) changing jobs, one to the army and one to the navy, replacing cars, property maintenance etc. it never seems to stop. Hopefully though will have time when the major wedding is done to come in and catch up.


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