# Carpet question,



## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

I have a very dry basement since digging it out and putting in a drainage system. My question is do I need to put anything under the carpet padding cause I see here some put down plastic as a vapor barrier im guessing.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If it's dry, there should be no need. Standard carpet pad and carpet will be fine. If you have the height, budget, and want a bit of feel, you can use Dri-Cor over the concrete prior to carpet.

Bryan


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks Bryan, I do have the hieght availabilty but if I don't need it I will put the money towards the Roxal safe and sound insulation in the ceiling. I have been really slow on this project but trying to think out all possabilities before spending any money. I do have a lot of pics from digging out the basement with 5gallon buckets totalling 90 yards of dirt!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Depending on how you're going to do the ceiling (clips and channel, green glue, etc.) the Safe and Sound may not do much of anything but spend money.

You certainly don't need the floor again depending on the isolation desires. It's more for feel and to help stop flanking through the slab.

Bryan


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

Wow, I thought using the Roxal would be worth it for sound deadening. The ceiling I have to use is a drop ceiling due to the things in the rafters that can't be buried. Is there any good products for this kind of setup? I did insulate all the walls even the inside walls. It does sound not so bad even without having the carpet down yet. My thinking is when the furniture and other items are in place the room will be quiet.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

From an isolation standpoint, you're limited using drop tiles. The Roxul will help a little. From the standpoint of allowing the ceiling to be a large broadband bass absorber, it won't change much.

Bryan


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

If you are putting in just carpet, it should be fine. However, some moisture will wick through the concrete. But carpet breathes, so it should not be a problem. Hardwoods or laminates are another story, though.

Also, if you haven't framed yet, make sure the bottom plate is pressure treated (the part that meets the concrete. Even with the basement being dry, the wood can absorb and hold moisture and slowly rot. Probably won't be a problem, but it would be a major pain if it did.

Good luck.


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

bpape said:


> From an isolation standpoint, you're limited using drop tiles. The Roxul will help a little. From the standpoint of allowing the ceiling to be a large broadband bass absorber, it won't change much.
> 
> Bryan


I am going to install R19 above the tiles for some piece of mind that I treid to do somthing and I'm sure would be cheaper and maybe as effective as the Roxal in this case? If so you just saved me a lot of money! I would have liked to drywall the ceiling but it would be against code for my situation. I do have some ideas with the ceiling like putting in some fiber optics as a night time effect. I am trying to make the best of what I have and this site is great for me as a newbe to get ideas from.:sn:


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

Anthony said:


> If you are putting in just carpet, it should be fine. However, some moisture will wick through the concrete. But carpet breathes, so it should not be a problem. Hardwoods or laminates are another story, though.
> 
> Also, if you haven't framed yet, make sure the bottom plate is pressure treated (the part that meets the concrete. Even with the basement being dry, the wood can absorb and hold moisture and slowly rot. Probably won't be a problem, but it would be a major pain if it did.
> 
> Good luck.


Thanks for the heads up, yes I did put down P.T for the bottom plate and also used PL premium glue.
There was one inside partition wall about six feet long were I did use regular stud for the sill put the floor is really dry. I had some card board boxes in place for over a year and when moved they were still dry.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

You should be fine. I just moved to a house with an unfinished basement. We think it's dry, but are holding off for a year before we finish it just to be sure. I know too many people who have re-done their basements due to surprise floods and inadequate drainage. Sounds like you are all set though.

And remember, pics, pics pics!


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

Anthony said:


> You should be fine. I just moved to a house with an unfinished basement. We think it's dry, but are holding off for a year before we finish it just to be sure. I know too many people who have re-done their basements due to surprise floods and inadequate drainage. Sounds like you are all set though.
> 
> And remember, pics, pics pics!


Funny you should say that, when I bought my house everything from my other house that was in the attic and basement was put into my existing house which was built in 1913 and we just had hurricane floyd and it dumped 15 inches of rain and man my basement was under water so I knew I had to do somthing so I dug it out and fixed it.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Like I said, from a purely isolation standpoint, the Roxul will do a little bit better. From an in-room performance standpoint, not much - unless you can fill the whole cavity above the drop with std insulation rather than just say 4" of Roxul.

Bryan


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

bpape said:


> Like I said, from a purely isolation standpoint, the Roxul will do a little bit better. From an in-room performance standpoint, not much - unless you can fill the whole cavity above the drop with std insulation rather than just say 4" of Roxul.
> 
> Bryan


I am going to fill between the joist with R19 and again with R13 going the other dirrection above the drop ceiling in hopes that it will dampen some of the highs and noise from going upstaires. I also will be making some wall mounted noise traps.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That will work just fine.

Bryan


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

I had another idea may seem dumb but I am trying my best with what I have in abundance of,that is carpet pading. I could cut them into strips and sandwich them between the floor joist with drywall. That would be first then install the insulation as talked about. I am sure nobody has done this due to better funds.:huh:


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Good thought but it really won't do anything for absorption or for isolation. Just not the right material.

Bryan


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

bpape said:


> Good thought but it really won't do anything for absorption or for isolation. Just not the right material.
> 
> Bryan


Dam ! foiled againonder:. I am going to try it anyways and let you know if there's any difference.
Instead of throwing it out I will waste my time I guess.lol


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Which are you trying to accomplish? Isolation? If so, one easy and relatively inexpensive way to go is to simply cut drywall and glue it to the underside of the subfloor above. That will increase the mass and reduce the transmission while only reducing the cavity depth for insulation by 1/2"

Bryan


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

bpape said:


> Which are you trying to accomplish? Isolation? If so, one easy and relatively inexpensive way to go is to simply cut drywall and glue it to the underside of the subfloor above. That will increase the mass and reduce the transmission while only reducing the cavity depth for insulation by 1/2"
> 
> Bryan


I am trying to deaden the room a bit and also stop sound from passing both ways through the floor.
This is not one of the high tech builds and is my first time at it. My point is my twin girls jumping around upstairs sound like they are on my head when I am working in the basement so figuring what I can do before the ceiling goes in. Thanks again for the replies.


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

the colors said:


> I would have liked to drywall the ceiling but it would be against code for my situation.


please explain as I have never heard of this before ???


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

ScruffyHT said:


> please explain as I have never heard of this before ???


Well if you have electrical junction boxes and shut off valves for gas and water you must either make access doors which to me would look ugly and be in too many places. Another thing is my floor joist are very old and are not exactly level across. I know it seems to be making excusses but I don't think it's worth the it. One more thing if I ever need to run anything in the future I will be screwed due to the sheetrock ceiling. Now I am starting to think Hmmm is it worth it????:spend::spend::spend:


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

Well it's either you want to soundproof or not I guess ... you can shim the ceiling flat using whisper clips and hat channel ... access doors can be covered up with fabric frames and conduit can be run "in case" you forgot something


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

ScruffyHT said:


> Well it's either you want to soundproof or not I guess ... you can shim the ceiling flat using whisper clips and hat channel ... access doors can be covered up with fabric frames and conduit can be run "in case" you forgot something


Started another thread due to this one getting off topic. I have a lot of this metal channel that is shaped into a hat. I guess that what your saying,just have to level it off with shims and drywall.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

About the vapor barrier under the carpet...

What happens in warm weather is the moist air goes to the lowest place in the house (the basement) and can condense on cool surfaces, like basement floors. It might not appear as being wet, but the moisture is there. Then there is moisture vapor that comes up through the concrete.

What happens when there is carpet and underpad (without a vapor barrier) on the concrete is that over time it will get moldy underneath. It might take many years for it to get bad, but it will happen. The mold is actually eating the underpad and carpet and the spores that it releases are very bad for you. It will make your HT smell like a dirty gym.

Anything that touches concrete walls or floor needs to have a vapor barrier between it and the floor/wall or has to be moisture/rot resistant (ie: pressure treated wood). That includes your wood framing, wood flooring, carpet and laminate flooring. That is written in building codes everywhere.

It's actually best to have insulation, sleepers with sill gasket under them, then vapor barrier then subfloor (insulation on the cold side), but that can increase your build costs quite a bit.


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

Thanks for that detailed reply. I will put down 6mill plastic under the padding. Definetly makes sence to do so, as far the rest I am good to go in the framing with PT as the sill around the basement.


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## steiny93 (Jan 8, 2009)

Really 6 mill under the pad?
If you put the vapor on top of the concrete aren't you going to get condensation between the concrete and the vapor? And isn't that going to give you a mold issue?


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Mold needs 2 things to grow: food and water. When sandwiched between the concrete and a vapor barrier, it has the water, but not the food. Drywall, carpet padding, etc *could* be food if the moisture could get there. So you are okay trapping it to the concrete.


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## styels (Nov 17, 2009)

yes


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## steiny93 (Jan 8, 2009)

i would have to disagree,
your concrete isn't going to be 'food free' and you will have voids / tears / holes / etc in your vapor barrier where you will get that condensation against the pad

if you get condensation between the concrete and the plastic you will get mold in the pad

iy inlaws own a company that does commerical flooring, lots of commerical flooring for the past 40 years, i just ran this by there local job sup, he shared my opinon and had seen tearouts where the previous install did as you suggest. the removal was terrible nasty due to all the mold

granted, your results may vary


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## the colors (Mar 28, 2008)

Here is another option, Install foam insulation tongue and groove type onto the floor tape all seems. Then install on top of that tongue and groove 3/4 ply wood screw down with tapcon concrete screws then carpet padding then carpet. This method is exspensive and you do loose some headroom in the process.:spend:


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## steiny93 (Jan 8, 2009)

i believe the root of the issue is where the vapor barrier resides and how that will affect the neighboring materials

ie, if the barrior is beneath the concrete then all is fine as the sand below the concrete doesn't care. But when the barrior is in a location that can get the mold train moving bad juju happens

in the above scenario you'd just move the barrior to a concrete vs. insulation space, i would guess that the insulation would wick the moisture into the plywood and cause the same issue


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