# Monster AVS 2000 Voltage Stabilizer...



## waculjr.903

I was wondering if anyone has one of these and are they any good. And also, do they keep the constant 120volts when voltage droppes down to say 105 volts in peak summer at times? Lastly, does this item really help get the most out of all your gear, especially the big pro amps alot of us are using to power our DIY subs with?


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## jarrod1937

There is a time and a place for a voltage regulator. But normally one is not needed. USA outlet voltage can quite commonly vary by as much as 15 volts (as you seem aware), but because it is quite common, all but the crappiest engineered electronics are already designed for such fluctuations. Most electronics convert the AC to DC via a rectifier and in the rectifying stage electricity is usually "buffered", making fluctuations unnoticeable to the electronics after this stage. So, honestly, I wouldn't worry about it. The only time I would, would be if the house has an excessive problem with voltage drops, causing the the voltage to be running too low for an excessive period of time. But if that is happening, then you more than likely have bigger issues to worry about.


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## Guest

I personally wouldn't buy anything Monster. They are known for major markups and going after any other company that has the name monster in it, even if they aren't related in anyway to the audio market.

I have my pro-amp and sub hooked up to a old UPS that still works. The ideal was to deal with any voltage drops or minor brown outs during playback, but I've yet to hear the thing beep. The rest of my gear is just plugged in to a power strip.

If you really want to get something, you might want to look at this. http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10839&cs_id=1083901&p_id=4153&seq=1&format=2

Or for less money, you can just get a computer UPS. Just not as pretty and it might not fit in a rack, but I've seen pictures of people putting them behind a audio rack out of sight.


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## waculjr.903

Just to get my head strait on this issue... I have heard about the voltage rectifier, converting ac to dc for the output stage in amps, receivers and such. On this subject, when voltage drops, does the amps and such strain to put out max output to speakers causing distortion problems, changes in impedance, fluctuating the sound quality and introducing distortion? I am not really a fan of monster stuff, but I am looking at one of these units at a pretty good deal- like $500 used. So this is not a really expensive purchase, if it is worth getting. I read on the net, just now an article from stereophile magazine and they claim this device does some good. The individual noticed improvements in sound quality like better sound stage, imaging- more accurate... crisper highs and so on. On the bass section, tighter more punchy and accurate was his discription. The only complaint he had was when the voltage dropped considerably, there was a audible click sound from this unit when the servo motor kicked in, but none when only mild corrections. I know there is a lot of corporate politics throughout every industry, in this case- electronics. Like a magazine publishing an article in the form of a review on a certain product such as this. I would think this magazine would be pretty reputable, but there is no guarantee. Or is the difference in this product not really worth the investment, nor for the average individual to distinguish? This why I am coming to all here, at the shack, to set me strait on this. I appreciate your input on this matter. P.S. I usually listen to music and watch movies at moderate levels which is no problem, but when the woman is outside or gone, Dr. evil comes out and wants some serious crankage!!!


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## Guest

I stopped reading magazine articles a long time ago. If you feel that it is worth it to you and $500 is pocket change, then go for it.

I really don't see what the difference between what your looking at and a UPS would be. Other then when a UPS looses power, it beeps, it doesn't just click. If your having brown outs and power shortages long enough to trip the battery, I'd personally turn the tunes off till the problem passed.

As far as tighter bass and chrisper highs... A Crown XLS 402D hooked up to a old UPS is the cleanest sound I have ever heard.


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## KalaniP

Generic said:


> I personally wouldn't buy anything Monster. They are known for major markups and going after any other company that has the name monster in it, even if they aren't related in anyway to the audio market.
> 
> I have my pro-amp and sub hooked up to a old UPS that still works. The ideal was to deal with any voltage drops or minor brown outs during playback, but I've yet to hear the thing beep. The rest of my gear is just plugged in to a power strip.
> 
> If you really want to get something, you might want to look at this. http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10839&cs_id=1083901&p_id=4153&seq=1&format=2
> 
> Or for less money, you can just get a computer UPS. Just not as pretty and it might not fit in a rack, but I've seen pictures of people putting them behind a audio rack out of sight.


Computer UPSs that are made for servers are designed to be rack mounted, for the record.

I use an APC UPS for my DVR, so it doesn't get toasted (or stop recording!) during a < 15 min power outage, since modern DVRs are really special-purpose computers in every sense of the word, but everything else is just on a good power strip. Power is not much of an issue in L.A. suburbs, however.


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## jarrod1937

Get a UPS if you're worried about voltage drops to the extreme or power outages, but electronics are design well enough as is to deal with minor variation.

"like better sound stage, imaging- more accurate... crisper highs and so on. On the bass section, tighter more punchy and accurate was his discription"

Sorry, but those are all terms often used by "audiophile" b$'ers. I'm not trying to blindly lump that magazine in with the other [email protected] i've heard, but these may be the same people who say they hear a difference between $1,000 a foot speaker cable and 12 gauge lamp cord (hint, there is none), or say vinyl has superior sound (perhaps they have a preference, but digital is superior for reproduction). I'll try to stop myself from getting into a rant, but i wouldn't put too much credit into the statements from that article.

Edit: This forum has a rather annoying censorship function, it flat out replaces the word "[email protected]" (with an a replacing the @), from my post without any warning... same with b$. Seriously, not only is this type of censorship [email protected], but to give no feedback to the user when implementing it is worse.


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## Guest

jarrod1937 said:


> Get a UPS if you're worried about voltage drops to the extreme or power outages, but electronics are design well enough as is to deal with minor variation.
> 
> "like better sound stage, imaging- more accurate... crisper highs and so on. On the bass section, tighter more punchy and accurate was his discription"
> 
> Sorry, but those are all terms often used by "audiophile" b$'ers. I'm not trying to blindly lump that magazine in with the other [email protected] i've heard, but these may be the same people who say they hear a difference between $1,000 a foot speaker cable and 12 gauge lamp cord (hint, there is none), or say vinyl has superior sound (perhaps they have a preference, but digital is superior for reproduction). I'll try to stop myself from getting into a rant, but i wouldn't put too much credit into the statements from that article.
> 
> Edit: This forum has a rather annoying censorship function, it flat out replaces the word "[email protected]" (with an a replacing the @), from my post without any warning... same with b$. Seriously, not only is this type of censorship [email protected], but to give no feedback to the user when implementing it is worse.


What I really wanted to say, but is it really audiophile BSers or dishonest marketing? If it wasn't for marketing and a market full of suckers, then this equipment wouldn't sell at all. More like audiophools, not audiophiles.

Regarding Vinyl.... Just because the CD format CAN offer higher quality doesn't mean it always does. Earlier digital transfers were known to have better vinyl copies and anything that was originally recorded with analog equipment that had early digital transfers can really be of poor quality. Then you have the loudness wars. Now that we are in a age where digital has been perfected, it is often ruined by making everything overly loud and distorted. I use vinyl, CD, and SACD and I have favorites and disappointments with all of the formats.

Can of worms open.


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## waculjr.903

Pretty cool thread Genericand Jerrod. That is the problem with reading different individuals magazines, wondering the truth behind all the Superiornis of This or That product. Unless you have access to various peices of equiptment for your own personal audition, the general public usually will go the next step-check sources for reviews, which no telling how biased they are or if they really have any sense period. Some just bite the bullet and purchase the product on chance hoping it is not a P.O.S.!!!! and be extremely frusterated when they are dissapointed only to fight to return the product.This is why I think the shack is pretty cool helping people like me filter out all the B.S. with the unbiased opinions, thanks.


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## jarrod1937

Generic said:


> What I really wanted to say, but is it really audiophile BSers or dishonest marketing? If it wasn't for marketing and a market full of suckers, then this equipment wouldn't sell at all. More like audiophools, not audiophiles.
> 
> Regarding Vinyl.... Just because the CD format CAN offer higher quality doesn't mean it always does. Earlier digital transfers were known to have better vinyl copies and anything that was originally recorded with analog equipment that had early digital transfers can really be of poor quality. Then you have the loudness wars. Now that we are in a age where digital has been perfected, it is often ruined by making everything overly loud and distorted. I use vinyl, CD, and SACD and I have favorites and disappointments with all of the formats.
> 
> Can of worms open.


Lol, no can of worms have been opened, i completely agree with you. However, you're talking about audio mastering and i am talking about formats. The digital format (say cd quality of higher) is superior to that of vinyl in terms of replication of the original source. Mastering is another topic, you can produce [email protected] no matter what format/medium you're on, and the reverse is true, if you know the limitations of your medium (like vinyl) you can create a nice master for it.
And quite true, people falling for marketing is what makes the world turn.


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## jarrod1937

waculjr.903 said:


> Pretty cool thread Genericand Jerrod. That is the problem with reading different individuals magazines, wondering the truth behind all the Superiornis of This or That product. Unless you have access to various peices of equiptment for your own personal audition, the general public usually will go the next step-check sources for reviews, which no telling how biased they are or if they really have any sense period. Some just bite the bullet and purchase the product on chance hoping it is not a P.O.S.!!!! and be extremely frusterated when they are dissapointed only to fight to return the product.This is why I think the shack is pretty cool helping people like me filter out all the B.S. with the unbiased opinions, thanks.


The easiest way to weed out bad reviews for tech items is to see if they publish stats and/or technical measurements. For example, if the voltage stabilizer truly made a difference, I, as a technical reviewer, wouldn't count on my ears to tell me. I would open up my amp and take measurements directly from the power rectifying stage. If the voltage stabilizer is making a difference i'd expect to see a difference at that stage, if not, then it had little to no effect. Lack of professional measurements and a reliance on the "golden ear" makes me doubt the review from the get go.
Also, try to look more for user reviews for a product. When doing this i often go straight to the negative reviews. When reading the negative reviews i try and apply some critical thinking to see if what they say sounds reasonable to me. If you're wondering, the reason why i say only look at the negative reviews is that i've been finding a lot more planted "user" reviews recently, and for obvious reasons planted reviews are not going to be negative. Though, the positive reviews can still be useful, in general it seems the longer reviews tend to be legit compared to the shorter ones.


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## Guest

Even if they had the measurements to back up the claim, they would need to control the voltage drops to begin with and that may or may not be a problem for a customer. Another words, someone who bought the Monster product might not ever need it in the first place. Also, I doubt the same tester would ever test against a cheap UPS to prove the Monster product is better. If they did/do, I'd love to see that data.


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## jarrod1937

Generic said:


> Even if they had the measurements to back up the claim, they would need to control the voltage drops to begin with and that may or may not be a problem for a customer. Another words, someone who bought the Monster product might not ever need it in the first place. Also, I doubt the same tester would ever test against a cheap UPS to prove the Monster product is better. If they did/do, I'd love to see that data.


Of course, the point is that they would at least be showing some credibility in showing that if the problem did exist, this device would fix the issue. Whether or not the problem exists, for which a product may help resolve, lies on the consumer to judge.
But yes, i would also be curious to see such competing data. Though, from my understanding of most ups's, if the voltage is dropping low enough to cause issues for the electronics, the ups will kick is and feed the device steady power from then on. So my guess is that both options would be comparable, at least for what the device would see internally.


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## Gregr

I love it...,
I wonder too, if promoters, sales people, admin are looking for every way to Maximize Profits for shareholders just how long ago did all electronics become overpriced. Rebates that make you wait for .5yrs for the check if you can even find the application in the first place. Commercials that look like a news report. They are all guilty. Monster is playing some money games but typically their products do what they say it will.

The AVS 2000 will keep your tunes cranking through Brown-Outs down to 80volts and protect from surges/spikes up to 140v. It is not a UPS that will provide constant power for 10 minutes or an hour. The AVS will keep the music playin thru some bad weather voltages and be easy on your gear but when the grid goes down its not going to be of any help.

I bought the HTS 3600MKII because Stereophile recommended this voltage filter. I don't remember what was said about it. MY HTS has ferrite cores that incoming and outgoing power lines are wrapped around and these seem to help quiet the sound stage around the music. 

$500 for the AVS2000 is a nice price. If this piece doesn't do what you expect it should then just sell it for $550. I would not expect miracles but on the other other hand..., I have been replacing my cables, plugs, receptacles for the highest copper content possible and the lowest resistance, capacitance and inductance I can find. With every upgrade I find that the MP HTS 3600MKII does not get in the way of any improvements. In fact if I bypass the HTS 3600 I just don't like the music as much. I get frustrated looking for that line of music that just blows me away and it just doesn't happen as much. 

I'm hoping one day to afford a Chang LightSpeed powerline cond.. I have two other MP conditioners and I can't say too much about them except MP has a $500K protection coverage. I wonder how long it takes to get your money.

Overall I feel Monster Cable Power Conditioners are good utility. They ares as good as most but not outstanding like some obviously are. Go to Monster Power dot com and take a look at the numbers

Greg


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## lcaillo

Virtually all video devices use switching power supplies and most are going to be very stable output between about 90 volts and 140 volts. Audio products with conventional power supplies will not regulate to that degree, but will usually still perform normally over a wide voltage range.

In general, voltage regulation or filtering beyond what is in the power supplies of most products does not provide measurable improvements in noise or other sound quality parameters. In some cases of severe line noise it might, but proper grounding of all aspects of a system and incoming signal lines solves many problems.

If one feels that an improvement in performance occurs with line filtering or additional regulation, there is no reason not to use it if you can afford it. I have yet to measure a difference, however, and yet to see anyone present objective evidence of an effect at the output of any component being improved by line filtering under normal conditions.


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## KalaniP

Gregr said:


> The AVS 2000 will keep your tunes cranking through Brown-Outs down to 80volts and protect from surges/spikes up to 140v. It is not a UPS that will provide constant power for 10 minutes or an hour. The AVS will keep the music playin thru some bad weather voltages and be easy on your gear but when the grid goes down its not going to be of any help.
> 
> I bought the HTS 3600MKII because Stereophile recommended this voltage filter. I don't remember what was said about it. MY HTS has ferrite cores that incoming and outgoing power lines are wrapped around and these seem to help quiet the sound stage around the music.
> <snip>
> Overall I feel Monster Cable Power Conditioners are good utility. They ares as good as most but not outstanding like some obviously are. Go to Monster Power dot com and take a look at the numbers


All of that is true. But here's the problem, the way I see it. A true UPS from a reliable company like APC will do all of that... AND keep at least part of your system going/protected through an actual power interruption (as opposed to a slight voltage dip). And, frankly, do it for less money, in many instances. $500 will buy a very nice UPS.


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## lcaillo

Not all UPS units provide great protection. Many do not have protection for signal lines, which IME, is critical to properly protecting a system. A $30 surge suppressor can often provide all the protection that one needs, without the garbage output that many cheap UPS units produce when they are replacing the line power.


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## KalaniP

lcaillo said:


> Not all UPS units provide great protection. Many do not have protection for signal lines, which IME, is critical to properly protecting a system. A $30 surge suppressor can often provide all the protection that one needs, without the garbage output that many cheap UPS units produce when they are replacing the line power.


Then why advocate for a $500 voltage stabilizer?

And I never said to look at the cheap and UPS units. APC is good stuff.


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## lcaillo

KalaniP said:


> Then why advocate for a $500 voltage stabilizer?
> 
> And I never said to look at the cheap and UPS units. APC is good stuff.


To whom is the question directed? I do not advocte such. If one feels good about buying one then there is no good reason not to do so, but it is good to have the rest of the story. It is no different than many other expensive products which target the desire to assure optimal performance. Whether they actually do have significant benefit that is quantifiable is only a small part of a purchasing decision.

I do not generally recommend UPS units. If one chooses to use it, I would make sure that it does what is expected. My point was that many cheap units do not provide clean output and do not protect as well as many assume. Just because it has the label UPS on it does not mean that it is good protection. Many have no signal line protection which is far more important than regulation or backup functions in terms of protecting the system.

Assuming what a product will do without looking at the actual design and specifications of the specific model is a mistake IMO, and I have seen many people install cheaper UPS devices that are not what they expect. APC has some good equipment. They also have some units that have far less protection for surges and low power ratings that I have seen people use in the wrong application.


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## RTS100x5

I support the use of AC filtration but mainly for the purpose of protection from lightning strikes. In the last 3 yrs of installing AV we have 2 customers w total loss of media room electronics from lightning. Both of these turned down the AC/ protection (we use PANAMAX) even though I _strongly_ urged them to buy it. The cost to them is now the total replacement of all their gear. One covered by insurance, one was not so he's out $4000. Whether it makes a difference in the SQ is inconsequential. If you trust all your gear to that $10 power strip from Wally Mart, you definitely qualify as an Audiophool. Of course no one believes that until it happens to them.....:duh:


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## lcaillo

Panamax makes fine equipment and I have used and sold it for years. Don't underestimate the value of even lower priced units, however. WalMart sells units in the $30 range that are perfectly good protection. The key is to protect all incoming signal lines as well as a.c. AND to be sure that everything is well grounded per code.


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## KalaniP

lcaillo said:


> To whom is the question directed? I do not advocte such. If one feels good about buying one then there is no good reason not to do so, but it is good to have the rest of the story. It is no different than many other expensive products which target the desire to assure optimal performance. Whether they actually do have significant benefit that is quantifiable is only a small part of a purchasing decision.
> 
> I do not generally recommend UPS units. If one chooses to use it, I would make sure that it does what is expected. My point was that many cheap units do not provide clean output and do not protect as well as many assume. Just because it has the label UPS on it does not mean that it is good protection. Many have no signal line protection which is far more important than regulation or backup functions in terms of protecting the system.
> 
> Assuming what a product will do without looking at the actual design and specifications of the specific model is a mistake IMO, and I have seen many people install cheaper UPS devices that are not what they expect. APC has some good equipment. They also have some units that have far less protection for surges and low power ratings that I have seen people use in the wrong application.


Fair enough. :sn:


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## jarrod1937

RTS100x5 said:


> I support the use of AC filtration but mainly for the purpose of protection from lightning strikes. In the last 3 yrs of installing AV we have 2 customers w total loss of media room electronics from lightning. Both of these turned down the AC/ protection (we use PANAMAX) even though I _strongly_ urged them to buy it. The cost to them is now the total replacement of all their gear. One covered by insurance, one was not so he's out $4000. Whether it makes a difference in the SQ is inconsequential. If you trust all your gear to that $10 power strip from Wally Mart, you definitely qualify as an Audiophool. Of course no one believes that until it happens to them.....:duh:


As mentioned, while that may be the case, you have to wonder if something else may do the trick for less money. Though of course something better than a cheap power strip. If the clients can get by with something cheaper, because they don't need to power conditioning feature, i'd say go ahead and do that.
I've used ~ $200 APC UPS's for years and haven't had any electronic deaths, except for where the surge was so bad the UPS itself got fried, but still protected the electronics.


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