# Which amp,...hmmmm???



## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

My wife thinks I need to give her some Christmas shopping help. So I'm thinking:

1- B&K 200.7 S2.......~$2400 375w at 4 ohms 76 lbs
2- Outlaw 7700 7..... ~$2150 300w at 4 ohms 93 lbs
3- Emotiva MPS-2 7...~$1700 300w at 4 ohms 115 lbs
4- Save the cash to finish basement (including the HT), but of course this would be part of the HT :bigsmile:

So these are pretty comparable at first glance,... other than price.
What are the advantages of one over the other?
One thing I did notice is the 4 ohm specs and the weights,..interesting,.. comments?

Is there a better option out there?

Do I really need a amp? I have heard my speakers with an Acurus A250 and they did sound ,....more,...airy? And the bass definitely seemed more controlled.

For those that don't know, my system includes a Denon 3805 (that I would use as the processor) and five 4 ohm speakers, the mains are 88 db (2.83V/1M, 27 Hz-20kHz) center and surrounds are 90 db (2.83V/1M, 45 Hz-20 kHz) they really do like some juice, and I'm not so sure the 3805 is up to the task.

Just wondering if it would be a worthwhile improvement.:dontknow:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I like the looks of the Emotiva stuff, but haven't heard any of it.

In that price range I would also consider the Anthem MCA 50 with all channels driven... 180wpc/8ohms ... 265wpc/4ohms ... 340wpc/2 ohms. Of course I'm a little bias as of recently.

You can always get a lots more for your money buying used on Audiogon.


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

I'd recommend the Rotel RB1092 front left right and RB1091 for the center, and then let your receiver power the surrounds.

2k for the 1092 ... 1k+ for the 1091 ... i doubt the center needs that much power anyway


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## Rodny Alvarez (Apr 25, 2006)

Can you really hear the difference between those amps??:dontknow:

How about warranty, who has the best warranty??

Can you Bi-amp your mains and center?

I have the emotica LPA-1 with the RX-V1700 Yamaha and I can hear a difference, this is just running @8ohm, my plan is to Bi-amp my mains and center, 125watts for the tweeter and 4" and 125watts for the dual 7" and run my rears with the receiver.

One more thing ...if you can Bi-amp your front speakers you can buy two LPA-1 for under $1000 and run each speakers @ 450 watts each:devil: and have more channels for surrounds and... 2nd, 3rd zones:dumbcrazy: 






At Emotiva, you buy direct from our factory. You do not pay unnecessary mark up to distributors and retailers. For your peace of mind, all of our products come with a FIVE YEAR transferable parts and labor warranty. Compare this to the typical 90 day parts and labor warranty on all too many mass market products.


We are so confident in the quality of our products that we invite you to try them in your own home for 30 days. If you are not 100% satisfied for any reason, just call us to return your product and we'll refund your purchase price. It's that simple.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

I'd look into three Outlaw M-2200 monoblocks ($921) to drive your mains and center. The Denon 3805 has enough juice to adequately drive your surrounds. Most program material comes through the center and mains, and you are usually closer to the surrounds.

You also buy direct from Outlaw.


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## alexadams77 (Aug 4, 2007)

By the looks of the amps that you selected, I assume that you have a 7.1 system at home and need a 7 channel amp. I've been looking at the Emotiva, Outlaw 7700 and Outlaw M2200 options myself. 

The great part about the MP-2, is that it uses cards/modules for each channel. If a module fails, instead of sending in the entire amp, you just need to pull the module and send it in. From what I've read, the specs are pretty much the same, same warranty, so to me it would boil down to looks.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Sonnie, I'll look into Anthem. Good suggestion.

Mike, I had looked at Rotel and NAD a few months ago, still undecided about an amp at all :dontknow:

Rodney, can I hear SQ differences between amps? No, not all the little nuances you hear people talk about. But, I can hear better performance from my speakers when the bass is controlled better.

Warranty,... didn't look at that :duh:

And yes,... I can bi-amp all of my speakers (even the surrounds).

Jay, yup, thought about mono blocks too, the Outlaw and these, just kinda leaning toward two units rather than 3 - 9.

Alex, no, I only have 5.1 on this system right now, but for the overall cost and future expandability a 7 channel amp seems to be the better deal.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

You do need off-board amps of some kind. If you try to run your 4 Ohm speakers you will not get very good sound and possibly will damage the receiver. The Denon AVR3805 is not designed to handle 4 Ohm loads, although it probably can if you are just running a pair of surrounds off it and using the preamp outs to feed off-board amps for the other speakers. Three of the Outlaw monoblocks will take up less room than all of the other amps you are looking at. My remote assessment is that you really only need to amp your center and mains. If you are planning to go 7.1 at some point in the future, then one of the 7-channel amps makes sense.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Isn't it Bryston that has a 20 year warranty? brucek is loaded up with some Bryston gear and really likes it. May be a little more expensive though. You might find a deal on Audiogon for one that still has a lot of warranty left.


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

aren't your RBH speakers mostly 4 ohms? go for the external amp!! it's christmas! who else is going to give yourself a gift but you! :bigsmile:

when upgrading, go overkill, that way you won't have to upgrade that unit forever.


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## imbeaujp (Oct 20, 2007)

I like Rotel amps. I dont know much about the new models, but the RB-1080/RB1075 works fine for me. The 1075 is a 5x120w and the 1080 is 2x200w. I use the 1080 to drive 2 4ohms subs and the 1075 drive 5 Yamaha ns-1000. The new Rotel amps are much powerful and compacts.

JP


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

The Denon has been doing a pretty good job the last three years, but then I usually only listen at about -10 from reference so I never really push it too much. 

When I spoke to a Denon rep about it he told me the 3805 is 3.2 ohm stable FWIW. I also spoke to some of the guys at RBH and they also thought it would be fine. And it has never gone into protect mode or anything,..... yet :sweat:

Bryston,...raying:, don't think it'll happen :R

Yes, all of my RBH speakers are 4 ohm,... though curiously the specs on the RBH website now claim 6 ohm for my 66-SE's and 661-SE, but the 1266-SE are still 4 ohm. Wonder if there have been design changes or ???

Who is going to get me a gift like this, other than me? My wife,...she is also the one that got me these speakers :yay:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I think I like your wife.... :whistling:


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

Hi:
I'd look at used Parasound at Audiogon. A used (in excellent condition) HCA-2205AT (220wpc @ 8 ohms, 385wpc @ 4 ohms AND 60 ampere peaks per channel) will run you ~$1200.00 or so. Then when you want the additional 2 channels, get an HCA-2200 mk II (make sure it's a mk II) which sports identical wattage ratings as the HCA-2205AT, but also has 90 ampere peaks per channel. Wanna talk bass control? The damping factor is >1000 @ 20hz. The 2200 mk II will usually run you ~$600.00 - $800.00. 
I use these 2 amps and can assure you that you will never ever lack for power, musicality and control unless you decide to do Carnegie Hall. :T
Cheers,
Konky.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

I would also second the Parasound suggestion - though I may be a bit biased about it 

If you are thinking of upgrading to a pre/pro in the future other things you might consider are 12V triggers and balanced connections. When I upgraded from my 140Watt Denon to my 125Watt Parasound I noticed quite a difference in sound.


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## imbeaujp (Oct 20, 2007)

Just want to mention that Rotel RB-1080 damping factor is 1000.

Did I mention that I am a Rotel Fanatic


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

Obligatory Audioholics article: Damping Factor: Effects On System Response.

I think part of the reason the MPS-2 weighs so much is because each card has its own transformer on it. The units which don't have monoblock-like architectures probably share taps on a single transformer. I would also recommend looking at Anthem's stuff; they measure extremely well but they cost more. The MPS-1 also measures very well. I haven't seen measurements of the Outlaw Audio or B&K.

(I own an MPS-1.)


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Good article on Dampening factor - it really highlights the difficulty in interpreting specifications. I'll also add this thread which also covers peak current specs and all channels driven myths a few pages in. Good info for anyone buying an amp IMO. :T


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

nova said:


> can I hear SQ differences between amps? No, not all the little nuances you hear people talk about. But, I can hear better performance from my speakers when the bass is controlled better.


Sorry nova, I meant to address this question in my last post...

Your Denon probably has more than enough power and 'juice' to get your speakers through pretty much anything at reference. I ran a 140watt/ch Denon on a 4 ohm setup for years at insane levels and never did it clip or go into protection What you will gain from an amp is quality. For me the soundstage mellowed out and loud scenes became much less straining to listen to. The addition of the amp made me forget that there was even an amp or receiver in the audio chain. A short while ago I hooked my Denon back up to the speakers and cranked it (+7 on 3 doors down concert!!). I was impressed that it would attain the same levels that the amp would without clipping, but the quality difference was quite noticable. I've heard of good results using the 3805 as a pre/pro as well.

As for sound differences between amps... I've had extended experience with Krell, Sunfire, Parasound, Marantz monoblocks, and Adcom. Sound differences do exist but it will be so hard for you to tell unless they are in the same room on the same speakers. One amp may sound better on B&W while the other will sound better with Kefs. It is just a hard thing to do. But! Any quality external amp will provide a difference over your receiver. Good luck!


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## Guest (Dec 13, 2007)

Save the money, finish your basement, build a HT. 
A dedicated HT will do much more for your speakers then a new amp could ever do. Just my opinion..


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