# Line Array Help / Build.



## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I've always been a DIY sub woofer guy. I'm wanting to build a couple towers and wanted something kinda easy. So I was thinking about building two Line array towers using 16 Dayton ND90-8 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 8 Ohm in each tower. Total height would be around 56". Another thing I was wondering is wiring. If I wire it in the diagram provided would I get a 8 ohm load. I think I will if I did my math right. But this is the biggest thing... The crossover. I have never built a crossover designed one or know what parts look like or what they do. Thank you for your help and information. If I get the help needed for the crossover then I will be building these in February and have a good Idea on the cabinets.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

edited comment.....


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

edited comment: was thinking about going a different way in spite of the price I think I would rather stick with the Dayton's.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

You could try one of the free online calculators online:T


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

for the crossover? I know the impedance will be 8 ohms. Figured it out lol. I couldn't find any calculators but maybe I just wasn't searching right.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Google Diy crossovers, something will come up trust me been there done that.:T


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

ok cool thanx.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> I've always been a DIY sub woofer guy. I'm wanting to build a couple towers and wanted something kinda easy. So I was thinking about building two Line array towers using 16 Dayton ND90-8 3-1/2" Aluminum Cone Full-Range Driver 8 Ohm in each tower. Total height would be around 56". Another thing I was wondering is wiring. If I wire it in the diagram provided would I get a 8 ohm load. I think I will if I did my math right. But this is the biggest thing... The crossover. I have never built a crossover designed one or know what parts look like or what they do. Thank you for your help and information. If I get the help needed for the crossover then I will be building these in February and have a good Idea on the cabinets.


The issue with full range drivers is that they have ragged response. 

Take a look at the response of the dayton you're looking at using... a 10db window! +/- 5 db is just not a flat frequency response. Two of the most important aspects of any speaker is to have a flat on-axis frequency response (+/-2db from 200hz-8khz) and a close off-axis response. If your driver needs heavy EQ then your results are not going to sound smooth or realistic. It'll sound like a cheap stock car audio in terms of "true-to-life".

My advice is to keep it simple and go with another person's design.

http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=Colossi
http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=Kuze3201
http://www.parts-express.com/cbt36/...t=DON+KEELE+CATALOG&utm_campaign=Catalog_2011

Honestly though I don't know if line arrays are a good place to start. I think there's lots of options out there for you that might not cost as much on raw drivers. 

My suggestion would be to do a Zaph ZA5.5tt kit from madisound. 

http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/ZA5.5tt-FR.gif

As you can see he keeps it within a ~4db window in the range I alluded to earlier. He's a great crossover designer and will really give you a small taste of what DIY can net you. 

Once you've gotten your hands dirty a bit, then try your hand at a simply two-way three driver MTM speaker.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I really would want those CBT36's but all those are out of my price range. What would you recommend for a Kit DIY towers under 1000? I really don't know enough to do something on my own. They will be used for movies and music. Thank you for your input and help. that would suck to spend all that money to find out I don't like the way they sound.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Package: Cabinet Kit and Components. what do you think about these. There pretty cheap so I don't know if they sound good or not.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Package: Cabinet Kit and Components. what do you think about these. There pretty cheap so I don't know if they sound good or not.


The TriTrix package gets alot of good reviews so i don't think they would dissapoint.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> TriTrix MTM TL Speaker Package: Cabinet Kit and Components. what do you think about these. There pretty cheap so I don't know if they sound good or not.


It's a good entry level build if you just want some experience with wood working without breaking the bank. Curt Campbell is a very good crossover designer. If that's your budget, then it's a good choice, but if you've got more flexibility, you can make a huge improvement even by just doubling the budget. Here's a really nice MTM tower speaker designed by Dennis Murphy (who also designs the majority of Salk Sound speakers):

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68531

The Zaph ZA5.5tt looks sweet as well, I posted it earlier. Definitely keep it as an option as it's not only a great crossover but a very nice driver.

If you don't mind going a bit old-school with a good ol monkey coffin, there's another very nice Zaph speaker:

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8691

The parts for the woofers don't appear to be in stock right now but another excellent choice for bang-for-buck and sound quality is this guy:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html

and to top it off, Krutke has yet another sweet design, the TMM waveguide speaker:

http://www.zaphaudio.com/Waveguidetmm.html

If you want to broaden your horizons, you may want to consider a dipole speaker such as this one by Paul Carmody:

http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy-sunflowers

Here's another one by Carmody:

http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/tarkus

Now back to curt campbell. Yes, he designed the Tri Trix, but he also made these:

http://speakerdesignworks.com/Statements.html

and their little brother

http://speakerdesignworks.com/MiniStatements.html

The statements series all have centers designs too so it may be a great choice for you. 

As you can see there's lots of options out there. Basically if you've got a crossover schematic, it's just a matter of soldering it - it's not hard - just go along slowly and carefully and make sure to place inductors properly. The complex part of any speaker design part is actually making the crossover as it requires the right equipment and understanding.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=MillenniumIII what do you think of this setup. It seems pretty good and I like the looks. and its right at my price range. I'm also liking the dipole one you posted up.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Oh and thank you so much for your help. I'm def a newb when it comes to the main speakers lol.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=MillenniumIII what do you think of this setup. It seems pretty good and I like the looks. and its right at my price range. I'm also liking the dipole one you posted up.


dont know much about it... just read up on peoples impressions of it and anything else ;-) and see where your gut takes you. just make sure the designer is providing good build info and detailed measurements to verify a good design. if the designer doesnt communicate well or the crossover topology confuses you then u may run into problems. 

a good way of verifying a design is comparing most of the measurements to the Revel Salon2 measurements on stereophile. lol.

now regarding dipoles i want to point out that they have interesting characteristics that a passive crossover may not be able to beat as the back waves cancel the front wavea. if u want to do a dipole perhaps consider an active one like the NaO and Orion


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

BuddahX said:


> http://www.parts-express.com/projectshowcase/indexn.cfm?project=MillenniumIII what do you think of this setup. It seems pretty good and I like the looks. and its right at my price range. I'm also liking the dipole one you posted up.


I would go a different route myself. http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

1Michael said:


> I would go a different route myself. http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39


+1 to that, tons of good builds there.:T


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I decided to try my own thing. Using woofers, tweeters, and Dayton 2 way X-overs from parts express. Might not be as good as the DIY kits but it will be more in my price range and I can build 7.2 cheaper. I know it prob wont sound as good but I think it will do for what I'm doing. I don't have a very picky ear so I think it will be fine. once I get everything and designed the cabinets I'll post up a build thread. thank you everybody for your help and information.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> I decided to try my own thing. Using woofers, tweeters, and Dayton 2 way X-overs from parts express.


That's the worst possible route you could possibly take. It might be cheap but it won't be decent at all. You're better off with your original line array idea.

I strongly recommend against ever using any readymade crossover.



> I know it prob wont sound as good


yep.. it won't sound any good.



> but I think it will do for what I'm doing.


Making noise?



> I don't have a very picky ear so I think it will be fine.


You'd better hope so, because chances are it won't even sound half decent. A ready made crossover is destined for failure. Like, worse than the cheapest HTIB at wal mart.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

it. Lol. What if i post the woofers n tweeters i was thinking on using?


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?t=1&products_id=742 Is there a DIY like this? or are these any good?


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

those tritrix' u were looking at earlier are looking mighty nice right about now


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

There is a right way and a wrong way to go about putting together a speaker system. Take 2 steps back.
1 How much cash will you spend?
2 What are the dimensions of the boxes you can handle?
3 What are your expectations and goals for this project?
4 etc etc etc


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Box size dosnt matter. If i just focused on the left center n right about 800$. I play games n watch movies.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> Box size dosnt matter. If i just focused on the left center n right about 800$. I play games n watch movies.


Hmm.. perhaps an econo-waveguide might be a good choice 

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=150939

My recommendation is that you've got a nice budget for a LCR and to keep the need for surrounds from _SEVERELY_ compromising fidelity.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

that link is a forum. what part of that forum has that kit? or maybe I don't understand the link lol.


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

This would be doable. http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=13969


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> that link is a forum. what part of that forum has that kit? or maybe I don't understand the link lol.


Well i intended to let you read everything on it but if you want to jump straight to the summary:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1856214&postcount=228


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I decided to wait till the CBT36 Kit comes out for Parts Express. I am really curious about it. Unless you think there's a better option. I'm not going to try and build my own setup due to my inability to do crossovers. Rather get a kit anyway. then I could just build the cabinets which I'm pretty good at.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

BuddahX said:


> I decided to wait till the CBT36 Kit comes out for Parts Express. I am really curious about it. Unless you think there's a better option. I'm not going to try and build my own setup due to my inability to do crossovers. Rather get a kit anyway. then I could just build the cabinets which I'm pretty good at.


I think it was my first post in the thread, but the ZA5.5tt is perfect for you. 

https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=8652 for the L/R mains
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_425&products_id=8650 for the C
For the surrounds you can build one of the other ZA5 speakers:
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_425&products_id=8648
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_425&products_id=8649
https://www.madisound.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=35_425&products_id=8651

But I would build the L/C/R first and then work with whatever money I have afterwards. I really think the zaph kit is worth it.

The CBT36 kit does look nice though


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

I'll check it out again. I have add sometimes. My mind moves faster than I do. Thank you again for everybody's help input and critique. I've been watching video's of Don Keele and his CBT with Harmon and his test with Linkwitz. It is very interesting about the CBT's.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

OK yea. I was actually looking at those kits and with the 2.5 way towers in front 2 way towers in rear, center, and MTM back side surrounds for 7.2 it would be 1108 total. Think these will sound good in my room? Room size is 17 x 17. Rooms pretty open.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I think it will sound great when done and setup properly.:T Looking forward to your build thread.


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## BuddahX (Jan 6, 2010)

Waiting on my income tax. ^_^ and hope nothing goes wrong before hand.


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