# Home Theater design



## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

Hi All,
I am new to Shack.

I have bought a new property and i need to convert one of the rooms as a HT. This room should serve partly as a living room and partly as a HT so i cannot have a typical HT seating arrangement. I have attached a picture of the room. Dimensions are 21'11x12'10 I intend to use my HTPC to play the media and use my ONKYO 607 as receiver.


































Any assistance you can provide me on the below would be of great help. Thanks


I am planning to remove the fire place. What other changes would you recommend in the room?
I am planning to project on the wall along the width of the room. Whats the picture size i can achieve
How far back do i need to mount the projector?
Please recommend me a screen, projector that would be good. Can i get a 4k projector at decent price?
What speakers would i need for a room of this size? I need 7.1 setup


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

premsub said:


> Hi All,
> 
> 
> Any assistance you can provide me on the below would be of great help. Thanks
> ...



Control light coming in from outside. Projection requires a dark room. The black level you get is limited by whatever ambient light is hitting the screen. For example, those contrast ratios we hear about, like 50,000:1...a guy in the front seat wearing a white shirt will reflect enough light back to the screen to reduce that ratio to 2000:1 or less. You cannot ever achieve the specified contrast ratio in a practical home theater, but 2000:1 is usually good enough. Plan to black out the windows completely if you're going to use this in the daytime and want good contrast/black levels.


premsub said:


> [*]I am planning to project on the wall along the width of the room. Whats the picture size i can achieve
> [*]How far back do i need to mount the projector?
> [*]Please recommend me a screen, projector that would be good. Can i get a 4k projector at decent price?


For a good start, go here:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/projectors.cfm
If your seating results in a controlled viewing angle, pretty much straight in front the the screen or only slightly to the sides, you can use a gain screen to pick up some brightness and contrast, but if you will have viewers in a wide angle to the screen, it's going to be a flat, non-gain screen so they get a decent picture. 


premsub said:


> [*]What speakers would i need for a room of this size? I need 7.1 setup



It's less about the size of the room, more about the size of the budget. What do you have to work with?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

For that bright a room you will need a screen like this for example
http://www.dnp-screens.com/DNP08/Products/Front-projection/Fixed-screens/dnp-Supernova-One.aspx

4k projector imho are not required for today's source material, and they are expensive.

Since you will need to put your seating against the rear wall to get any distance for a large screen you will have to decide how large a field of view you want. 

For Distance consider where you like to sit in a commercial theater. Go see a movie and pace out the width of the screen, then pace out how far back you enjoy sitting, this will give you a ratio that you can transpose to your HT.

http://www.projectorcentral.com/proj...creen_size.htm

The AE8000 on Cinema 1 mode will push out approx 550 lumens with no zoom. The more zoom you use the less light hits the screen. The AE8000 widest angle for a 120in screen is 12ft (numbers according to review on projector central)

You are looking for a FL (foot lambert) brightness at the screen of 15-16 (if you have completely dark room), more if you don't or if you want to view 3D.

using those number and a calculator like:

http://carltonbale.com/home-theater/...er-calculator/

http://hometheaterhero.com/htcalc.html#top

You will be able to calculate the screen gain you need to achieve that amount of light.

As for speakers with an open area to one side and the seating area against the back wall if a 7.1 is wanted I would probably look at in ceiling for the side surrounds (with pointable/angleable internals) and a bipole or tripole rear channel such as the axiom QS series. However, speaker selection is very personal, what one person love another will hate, go out and listen to different speaker brands and report back what you have found you liked and disliked about different manufactures, at that point those that happen to own those speakers may have some insight for you. Additionally, hearing a speaker at a showroom and hearing it in your room they may sound totally different, once you have narrowed it down a bit, ask if you can bring them home to listen to them on a trial basis.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Since this is a multi-function room I'm hesitant to make many suggestions till I ask some questions in no particular order...

1) is this a 1 story building/do you have attic access over the area? 

2) are your joists parallel or perpendicular to the wall you want the screen to be on?

3) where do you plan to put your equipment?

4) realistically what's your budget, how far beyond that can you go before you scrap the whole project? IE how good do you want it to look/sound?

5) do you want to see your speakers or are you planning to have all speakers in-wall/ceiling 

6) will this room ideally expand out to music/speakers in other rooms of the house?

7) will you be using the projector for all viewing or just "movie night/events"

8) are there any particular WAF issues we should keep in mind?

9) what are some cool things you've seen that you would love to include in your system?

10) how do you want to control the system? iPad/Tablet control, macro based remote, just using a few separate remotes is no big deal...


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## Sabby (Nov 10, 2008)

Given the amount of light in the room and your viewing distance I would give some thought to using an LCD TV along with a drop down screen and projector. You can check projector central calculators but likely you are in the range of a 100 to 110 inch screen.

Another alternative is to use a large LCD TV only with a 70 inch screen or bigger. This will allow the room to be multipurpose and not a cave.


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## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

@Gazoink - Thanks a ton for taking the time to provide such a detailed response. Greatly appreciated!!


> Control light coming in from outside.


I am planning use black out curtains for the patio doors and dark curtain for the other. 



> What speakers would i need for a room of this size? I need 7.1 setup
> It's less about the size of the room, more about the size of the budget. What do you have to work with?


I am planning to spend around £2000 max for the speakers. What can you recommend?


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## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

@Andre - Thanks for taking the time to respond with so much detail.



> Since you will need to put your seating against the rear wall to get any distance for a large screen you will have to decide how large a field of view you want.


I need some help here, pls. I understand FOV is what the eyes can see ( i am right? ). If this is right, should i not want the biggest possible FOV? You are right, i need to put the seating against the real wall.

I have done some calculation based on the links you provide, i believe to achieve a 140" diagonal projection i need a screen of 122x68 screen, i need to place my projector at around 12 feet from the project wall? My seating would be 1 row at around 15' from the projection wall. Does these sound right

My question about FOV would answer this but, my wall is roughly 13' wide - Can i see the whole screen sitting roughly 15-18' back?



> As for speakers with an open area to one side and the seating area against the back wall if a 7.1 is wanted I would probably look at in ceiling for the side surrounds (with pointable/angleable internals) and a bipole or tripole rear channel such as the axiom QS series. However, speaker selection is very personal, what one person love another will hate, go out and listen to different speaker brands and report back what you have found you liked and disliked about different manufactures, at that point those that happen to own those speakers may have some insight for you. Additionally, hearing a speaker at a showroom and hearing it in your room they may sound totally different, once you have narrowed it down a bit, ask if you can bring them home to listen to them on a trial basis.


Ceiling speakers would be too much of a pain for me. I would prefer to mount them on the side walls. In the picture above, where my switch box( white colour ) is where i am hoping to get my side surrounds. Would this be ok?


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## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

@rab-byte Thanks for your questions.



> 1) is this a 1 story building/do you have attic access over the area?


The building has 3 floors. This room is on the ground floor. I can install a false ceiling if required to run cables etc on the ceiling.



> 2) are your joists parallel or perpendicular to the wall you want the screen to be on?


Parallel



> 3) where do you plan to put your equipment?


In a cabinet on the rear end of the room. If there are alternative/better suggestions for this, please provide.



> 4) realistically what's your budget, how far beyond that can you go before you scrap the whole project? IE how good do you want it to look/sound?


Speakers - £2K
Projector - £1K
Planning to use existing AMP Onkyo 607 unless its no good for the project




> 5) do you want to see your speakers or are you planning to have all speakers in-wall/ceiling


See through speakers would be good or wall mounted.In wall speakers would be too much efforts to get a builder etc..



> 6) will this room ideally expand out to music/speakers in other rooms of the house?


It would be really nice if it can do that. But i fear this would be too much money to achieve



> 7) will you be using the projector for all viewing or just "movie night/events"


We have a main living room where we intend to watch casual viewings. This would be used for movies, sports etc. We watch atleast 3 movies a week



> 8) are there any particular WAF issues we should keep in mind?


No visible cables. Easy to clean



> 9) what are some cool things you've seen that you would love to include in your system?


I am not sure about "cool things" as i haven't seen many but music streaming would be nice. The key aspect for me is the Sound - To be able to deliver really good HD audio would be very important for me.



> 10) how do you want to control the system? iPad/Tablet control, macro based remote, just using a few separate remotes is no big deal...


Easy here - i currently use my iphone app to control XBMC running on my HTPC.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

So your budget is around 4k USD... 3k£

With parallel joists you could do a motorized screen that will drop down when in use and roll up into the ceiling when not in use. 

If a clean look is what your going for then in-wall/ceiling speakers may be your best bet. Since you're removing the fireplace and willing to modify the ceiling then pulling speaker wire should not be a problem. This will make the system vanish when not in use. 

Check out iRule as a DIY control system it has a lower cost of entry and should serve you well if you're planning on using your iPad for everything.


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## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks again rab-byte - Can u pls recommend me some projectors and speakers in my budget? Also what would be the best way to do the following;

* running speaker wires through the wall! Are there special tools for this?
* Running power cables and other cables to the projector in a concealed way?



> With parallel joists you could do a motorized screen that will drop down when in use and roll up into the ceiling when not in use.



any recommendations on this, pls?


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

In-wall in-ceiling speakers are available from several manufactures. Don't know what's available in your area....

Here's a starting point. 

http://www.speakercraft.com/products/architectural-audio

I'm a fan of Epsom projectors. Panasonic has some very highly rated ones as well as big names like sony and JVC. 

Google electric screens you'll find several. Screen Innovations is a well known reputable company as are Stewart but you can find cheaper also. The thing about a screen is its half of the picture and can really make or break the image depending on the room lighting. 

You'll probably end up gutting the ceiling to run your projector and while it's open speaker wire shouldn't be a problem. You already have power up there because if the light fixture/fan... I'm guessing that's coming out.

Ultimately you'll need a drill, drywall saw, tape measure, and something to do wall fishing. I prefer poles to fish tape but both can work. 

Good luck. 
You may want to read some other members build threads to get some idea of what your getting into. Honestly your budget may be tight but it's doable.


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## cowboyofclubs (Apr 2, 2014)

Try to get your hands on a benQ 1070. Should be well under £1k. I am getting the 7500 but have seen the 1070 and they are quite nice. Awesome 3d as a bonus.


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## cowboyofclubs (Apr 2, 2014)

As for speakers. Check out the Anthony gallo micro or adiva. They have in ceiling mounts and are very easy to install. They are a sphere shape so stick out but very subtly.


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## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

@cowboyofclubs - thanks for your reply. BenQ and Optoma are two projectors i am considering. As for speakers my primary concern is choosing a speaker system that is sufficient enough for the size of the room in terms of power. How should i determine this?

Also how would the Anthony Gallo micro compare to something like B&W? Are they le


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## cowboyofclubs (Apr 2, 2014)

Don't know how they compare but I would suggest b&w would have more powerful options.


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## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

cowboyofclubs said:


> Don't know how they compare but I would suggest b&w would have more powerful options.


Thanks again


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Given your budget projections B&W may be a little more£


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## premsub (Jun 11, 2014)

Thanks - My main concern if the speakers will make enough sound to fill the room - how can i choose the right speakers? What am i looking in terms of £ for B&W 7.1?


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

USD between $2,000-$10,000 + AVR and other equipment. Don't get me wrong they'll sound amazing and hold up for many many years to come. They'll become a part of your home and you'll love them. I have yet to hear a bowers setup not sound great!


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

Just to add a little bit more to that last statement. Bowers has a very noble pedigree. They're the only speakers used at Abby Roads, Skywalker Ranch, and Air Studios. They are a mature and refined sounding speaker with stunning highs that are not too aggressive and a smooth midrange. When properly paired with the right sub they blend quite well and the woofer will vanish in the room. 

Their in-wall/ceiling line is designed with the installer in mind. The brace is installed first, light weight and sturdy, then the speaker itself is mounted into the bracket. Most speakers take about 3-10 min to install and you're holding a 5-10lb speaker the whole time. With B&W you don't tax your arms nearly as much and repositioning the degree the in-ceiling are towed in is easy. Don't underestimate how important this is when mounting 7 speakers!


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

rab-byte said:


> Just to add a little bit more to that last statement. Bowers has a very noble pedigree. They're the only speakers used at Abby Roads, Skywalker Ranch, and Air Studios.


There are a lot of M&K S150 MkIIs at Skywalker...can't say about the others...


rab-byte said:


> They are a mature and refined sounding speaker with stunning highs that are not too aggressive and a smooth midrange. When properly paired with the right sub they blend quite well and the woofer will vanish in the room.


I loved the B&W 801s decades ago. I haven't been as impressed with the current line, they don't seem like the same company. In fact, I don't think they are, but what company is after 30 years?


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

I'm still chasing the first time I heard Martin Logan electrostats. Funny thing memories; they can color our perceptions. The new 801/2 towers are truly amazing with proper amplification. You really liked the silk dome over the diamond?


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Minor correction to the last post, I think Skywalker has a bunch of M&K 2510p also, it's the powered version of the S150. You'll find pro testimonials *here.*


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

rab-byte said:


> I'm still chasing the first time I heard Martin Logan electrostats. Funny thing memories; they can color our perceptions. The new 801/2 towers are truly amazing with proper amplification. You really liked the silk dome over the diamond?


Not sure I ever had a chance to compare the silk to diamond. These would have been mid 1980s 801s, whatever those were. We had them bi-amped with a rack full of amps, tried several, even blew up a demo amp from Bryston.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Should add...these were in a studio, primarily classical music and jazz. 2 track analog and digital, live mix-downs to stereo, no multi-track anything. Dolby A/SR NR.


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