# Theater room from scratch



## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey All,

Building a new home with a basement dedicated theater room. No windows. Just wanted to get input on what to use for the best accoustics inside the room and to prevent or minimize noise outside the room. I will be starting from scratch so anything is possible. I have heard of people double framing the walls but that really doesnt make sense to me. What is the difference if you have a 4 inch hollow wall or an 8 inch hollow wall? Unless you build the first wall, insulate and drywall, then build the second and do the same? Also, I wonder about the ceiling and how to prevent rattling the level above it? 

Please give me some input onto the best way to build and what to use for materials. Theater will be 23L X17W but that probably doesnt matter.

Thanks.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The difference with 2 walls is that the 2 sides exposed with drywall are not sharing the same studs. So, you have physical isolation. Also, on the inner walls, if you build them 1/2" short and decouple them from the ceiling joist using PAC DC-04 isolation clips, the inner walls that are taking the vibrations from the sub and the rest of the speakers aren't coupled to the outer walls or to the ceiling.

Use RSIC-1 clips or RSIC-V clips and hat channel on the ceiling to decouple the drywall from the joists and you're physically decoupled except for the concrete floor.

You'll also want to consider using 2 layers of drywall with Green Glue between layers.

Watch for any holes in the room. No sense in going to a lot of effort to isolate and then cut a bunch of huge holes for can lights that defeat what you just did unless you build backer boxes for them. 

You have a nice sized space to start with. What is the ceiling height concrete to bottom of floor joists?

Bryan


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

The theater will have one entry from the middle of the rear wall, opposite the screen. By the entry form the rear, the ceiling height will be nine feet. But I am digging the basement foundation deeper just for the theater room. So by the time you get to the front of the theater room the ceilling height will be 10.5 feet. I'm going for a traditional commercial theater look where you can walk down each side of the seating the the room gets deeper as you go down.

Also, is that all I will need to do? You don't recommend any soundboard, quietrock, or anything like that? If doing the double wall, do you recommend insulating both walls? Also, what do you recommend for the ceiling treatments? I will most like use wall lights so I will try to stay away from in ceiling cans. But how is the problems with the in celing HVAC vents overcome?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Treatments inside the room is different from the isolation techniques. Those can be addressed later on.

The double drywall with Green Glue will outperform the QuietRock for less money. Yes - insulate both walls and the ceiling cavity. Make sure the inner and outer wall do not touch. When doing the door, make sure to use a solid core wood door or a commercial soundproof door ($$$) with seals. 

You'll also need to pay attention to any other penetrations in the room like outlets, switches, etc. Pay special attention to HVAC isolation. Many ways to do that depending on the situation.


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Not sure what you mean making sure the inner wall and outer wall do not touch. Starting from inside the theater room and going out, I will have a layer of drywall, green glue, another layer of drywall, 2x4 stud wall with insulation. That is the first wall. Then the second wall will start with 2x4 wall and insulation with one layer of drywall which will be the surface for the family room right next to the theater. Is this correct or am I missing something? Did you mean make sure the wall for the family room doesnt touch the wall for the theater? How much space would I leave in between? Also, for the RSIC-1, do I use those between the secodn sheet of drywall from the theater room wall before the 2x4 studs? Also do I use them on the whole ceiling to seperate the drywal from the ceiling joists? I suppose that will lower the ceiling a bit, huh?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That's correct. Just when you build the outer wall, make sure that there is probably 1" between walls so the 2 don't touch. 

If you decouple the inner walls using the spacing and then again at the top using DC-04 clips, you only need RSIC-1 and hat channel on the ceiling. 

When you do the door, make sure that the jamb is only tied to the inner wall so you're not recoupling them. You can run a trim board up to within say 1/8" of the inner jamb and caulk it up.

Bryan


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Wow, that green glue isnt cheap either is it. $15 a tube? and you need 2-3 tubes per sheet? It would be like $600 for green glue for my theater room. Also, what is hat channel? Do the sheets of sheetrock become as solid using these RSIC clips since you are not actually screwing the sheetrock into the ceiling joists or 2x4 wall studs? Lastly, how much do the RSIC clips cost and how many do you need per 4x8 sheet?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

2 tubes per sheet for the Green Glue. Have you looked at the price of Quiet Rock for the same efficiency? It would be close to double the cost of GG and 2 layers of drywall and it takes 3 guys to handle a 1/25" thick sheet. $15 per tube is retail price. It can be had for less.

Hat channel is what clips into the RSIC-1 clips and becomes the only attachment point for the drywall. That minimizes contact area and allows the walls to flex a bit further helping to reduce transmission and absorb a litgle bass. 

RSIC-1's retail for around $6 each I believe. Again, that's retail and they can be had for less. There is a usage chart on the PAC Intl website. Hat channel can be purchased at any Home Depot, Lowes, or drywall supply house to save on truck freight due to length.

It's not inexpensive do do proper isolation but there are a lot of benefits from doing it.


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay, thanks. I will have to look into these things. By doing all of this though, does it really cut down on the noise outside and above the room, or is it just noticable and only a slight difference?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If done properly, it can make a lot of difference. It also doesn't just help with sound getting out, but it also helps with sound getting in and raising the ambient noise floor of the room.

Bryan


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

rf5000, I was a carpenter for several years and we built commercial movie theater like AMC and others. I could help you on this but I have a couple of basic questions. 1. In your movie theater that your building will any of the walls be used for other rooms? 2. What kind of insillation are you using? 3. Green Glue is being used I have another idea for you and its aah cant think of it but I know when we used it we didnt use that much and was able to get about 2-4 sheets on one stick of calk. If you have any questions I can help like I said and maybe give you some great ideas that could save you some money/time.


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## patchesj (Jun 17, 2009)

Bryan, given this is an empty space at the moment wouldn't you look at isloated ceiling joists and just skip the DC-04's?

rf5000, Green glue is well worth the investment..... I built my theater this way. Listening inside at decent levels (not reference but "normal"), the music/movie is nearly inaudible standing right outside the doors and you'd never know it anywhere else in the house. Even at vrey high volume inside the room, my wife told me she barely heard the scenes with massive explosions and sub bass. Spend money on things that you can't easily upgrade later, like the structure....


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

This theater is a rectangle. If I am standing inside the theater room and looking ahead at the screen, the left side and the wall behind me will share walls with other rooms. For insulation, I have not decided yet so I am open for suggestions there. I would also like to hear what your alternative to green glue is. I can use green glue but would like to see what else is out there. This theater will be a 9.2 system so I would definately like to keep the sound confined to just the theater room itself.


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

PATCHESJ - 

What do you mean by isolated ceiling joists? Are you talking using the hat rails to separate the drywall from the ceiling joists? Also, what did you all do in your setup to acheive such good results?


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

I have another comment on the ceiling that presents a whole new problem. I want to do a shooting star ceiling in the theater room. Would I have to use three layers of drywall? I was thinking of Green Gluing to sheets together and screwing those directly to the ceiling joists. Then using one more sheet spaced away from the other two sheets using the hat rail system. That way I would have a bit of a gap in between and I could have the fiber optics installed for the star ceiling. 

OR

I could Just install the hat system directly to the ceiling joists and have the double drywall with Green glue screwed to that like I would normally do, but to install the fiber optics through two layers of drywall and green glue might not be so easy. Plus, would all those holes for the stars in the drywall make a difference with the sound absorbtion or since they are so small it wouldnt matter? Any other suggestions?


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/Sealant-Caulk-reduces-sound-transmission-458917
The caulk that Im talking about is in the link above it the link dosent work then google Sound Caulk and its the second one down. When using this calk you dont have to coat the sheet down just a nice big "S" pattern will do just fine.
Insulation-I would see if you could get you some R-19 or R-22 that is the stuff we used its about 3-4" thick and yellow. You can also see if you can get it from this company called Goley Insulation.
Sound proofing- if you are looking at the screen then the screen wall and left wall you can use 2 layers of 5/8" drywall laying down stagger the drywall meaning put first layer on then start the second layer 32" from the start of first layer and use the calk between the sheets.
Now for the walls to your left and behind you. In side your room do the same thing as you did for the left and screen walls, but on the other side of the walls use 3 layers of 5/8" drywall. Do the same method as you did before by staggering the layers. This is how we built commercial theaters. There for all sound stays in room and plus its fire safe too. 
Celing- you can do the same method as the walls or you can do a drop in ceiling and find acoustic panels to asorb the sound too. I almost forgot when doing all the wall make sure you run the drywall from floor to ceiling and cutting around joists or whatever is needed. This will insulate the room and block sound.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

There are a variety of things that can be used between layers. They will all do something - the question is what? Green Glue has been tested and results published so you know what you're getting. 

You can use less Green Glue also - down to 1 tube per sheet. Results just aren't as good as 2 tubes. With Green Glue, you also don't have to speak it out - in fact, they will tell you not to. Just drizzle it on randomly and it will spread on it's own as it's screwed in.

Having 2 layers of mass as you described with 2 layers, then a gap, then another layer of drywall will actually do more harm to the isolation you're trying to accomplish. For best results, you'd like to just have 2 sets of mass - the drywall and the floor above with only 1 air gap. 

Another option is to use something not as massive for the starfield backer.

Bryan


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

bpape said:


> There are a variety of things that can be used between layers. They will all do something - the question is what? Green Glue has been tested and results published so you know what you're getting.
> 
> You can use less Green Glue also - down to 1 tube per sheet. Results just aren't as good as 2 tubes. With Green Glue, you also don't have to speak it out - in fact, they will tell you not to. Just drizzle it on randomly and it will spread on it's own as it's screwed in.
> 
> ...


No what I am talking about is screwing one layer of drywall to wood or metal stud the putting sound cauld/green glue on then screwing another layer of drywall to previous sheet. So it would be stud, drywall, caulk, drywall. On exposed wall to other room it would be drywall, caulk, drywall, stud, drywall, caulk, drywall, caulk, drywall. This is how the walls would be if you do it the way Im talking about but you have to stagger the sheets to get even better sound proffing and to be able to use less caulk too. If you run all way to ceiling that way then room will be totally cut off and act like a room all by its self. Plus by doing it this way its up to code along with makes great shelter area and at leat a 3-4 hour if not longer fire rated room.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Agreed on staggering the studs. The gap I was referring to was what the OP said about the 3rd layer having a gap for the starfield.


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

I got you I guess I missed that part. Yeah as long as you stagger the drywall on the 16" center studes you will be fine and have plenty of sound proffing.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Right. I just wanted him to avoid creating a potential triple leaf with the gap and then drywall for the starfield layer.


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

What do you mean something not as massive for the backer? The fiber optic ends poke through the ceiling. So say I had the double layer glued dryall with the space between the ceiling joists, where would I install the starfield?


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Would I install it in that separated double glued drywall ceiling? So it would be just like a normal separated ceiling? I was wondering if putting all those holes in that double layer glued drywall for the fiber optics would create another sound problem. But your saying it would be fine?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

> I was thinking of Green Gluing to sheets together and screwing those directly to the ceiling joists. Then using one more sheet spaced away from the other two sheets using the hat rail system. That way I would have a bit of a gap in between and I could have the fiber optics installed for the star ceiling.


This is what I was referring to. You were going to have 2 layers as the ceiling - then a gap - then more drywall for the starfield. The gap and then something with a lot of mass like the extra drywll would create 3 massive leaves (floor above, double layer, single layer) which can compromise isolation. 

What I meant was to do effectively what you said above but use something more like pegboard or just a thin pressboard which has a lot less mass so it won't cause a problem. You'd still have the gap, just not all the mass for the visible layer.

Bryan


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Yes, that could possibly work. Wow. I'm going to need alot of 5/8th drywall. I basically have to sheet rock the same wall five times. That is going to be one heavy wall. Would you still recommend separating that wall from the ceiling joists then using those rubber spacers or wont that make a whole lot of difference?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Why 5 times? Each one done only twice. 

Another little tip, when you drywall, do the ceiling, then all the walls, then the 2nd layer of ceiling, then 2nd layer of walls. That makes sure that the upper seam is not a straight seam all the way through.

Also, when doing double drywall, you'll want to put a couple extra studs in the corners to make sure you have plenty of surface to run screws into. Tends to get a bit tight with only 1 stud in the corner. Some people do double top plates too for the same reason when framing.

Bryan


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

I was just going by what that other guy told me saying to double drywall one side and then triple drywall the other side. Also, he said to run the drywall all the way to the bottom of the floor above through the joists. If I did this, I couldnt do the ceiling first. What do you think?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Doulbe on both sides would be fine honestly. 

The only way you can effectively take drywall up to the subfloor above will be to build the walls all the way up there. While that would be OK in terms of sound to the other room, it will leave a straight seam to the room above.


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

bpape said:


> Doulbe on both sides would be fine honestly.
> 
> The only way you can effectively take drywall up to the subfloor above will be to build the walls all the way up there. While that would be OK in terms of sound to the other room, it will leave a straight seam to the room above.


Yes he is correct by saying to do ceiling first there for u stagger the joints to. The only reason I said to go to from floor to ceiling was if u were going to use the drop ceiling I was taking about. I thought the drop ceiling would be good cause u wanted to do the star thing and it would be easy to install in drop ceiling. Now as for as the walls concerns it's totally up to u if u want to go with 2 layers on one side and 3 on the other side. I was just telling you how we built commercial theaters and that is what we did to keep sounds in there own rooms. But def don't forget to put insulation in and don't be stingy either.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Right. The difference is that in a commercial space, you have no room above you to worry about - it's just the great outdoors. In a basement theater, there is a room upstairs so we don't have the luxury of a drop tile ceiling and still try to maintain any sort of isolation to the rest of the house. 

If you're going to the using drop tile, you may as well forget the double walls and double drywall.

Bryan


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

Not 100% true you could still put up drop ceiling but you would have to use commercial grade tiles or tiles that are rated and used for sound deading. They make them out there but prob the cheapest and easiest way is to go with the 2 layer drywall ceiling. A room that size you could get 10' sheets and save a lot of time hanging 10' but it will be heavy and hard to do tho. BUt I totaly agree with you on the drywall ceiling, it was just another option that could be done tho.
Theres been other sites that I have been on that specialize in home theater rooms and some use drop ceiling and some use drywall its really your preference and what kind of detail you are going for.
I just wish that I had a house to be able to create my room especialy for the equipment that I have it sounds good but I know if I had a dedicated room vs a completely open vaulted room would be so much better.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I'd like to see a link to that tile if you have it. I've never seen any sort of drop tile that will perform with 2 layers of 5/8" drywall being sealed air tight vs individual tiles in a grid - even with MLV or drywall squares laid on top of the tiles. 

Not trying to be sarcastic - but if there's an option out there that I'm not aware of that will really perform well down into the subwoofer range, I'd like to know about it as some customers just can't do drywall ceilings.

Bryan


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

I must stress that if someone is building a sound isolated room you would not want ceiling tiles. Real lack of mass and completely unsealed. Drywall is not only less expensive but more massive and provides a sealed layer.

Similarly tests have shown that silicone and construction adhesive do not improve things as they are not the proper visco-elastic profile. Obviously you are increasing the mass with double drywall but not providing demonstrable damping.

These thoughts are common since they are intuitive, however largely in the realm of soundproofing urban legend right alongside egg cartons.


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

Here is a link for the guy thats wanting a star ceiling its a company here in Chicago that does home theaters. http://www.barrettshometheater.com/home-theater-gallery.php


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

Here is one of the links for the ceiling tile. The company is Armstron that was the comany that we used for the drop ceiling grid and tiles. There are many more companies/info out there. Just search for acoustical tiles. Heres the link http://www.armstrong.com/commceilingsna/browse_perf_acoustics.jsp


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## patchesj (Jun 17, 2009)

You need the room to end up as air tight as possible to truely isolate the sound. Dropped tiles simply can't do it. 

Isolated ceiling joists are just like what you plan on doing with the walls. You stagger your joists between the existing floor joists, but offset by 1". The new joists only rest on your new inside walls. None of the new framing should come in contact with any of the old framing, walls, ceiling, nothing.... Then 2 layers of 5/8ths with GG and you're set. It's been done countless times, is repeatable, and predictable.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Agreed. 

Here is an article that illustrates the floating ceiling: http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/library/articles/room_within_a_room/

Given the continued emphasis on more and more bass (subs) a trend if for a third layer of 5/8" drywall.


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay guys, here is what I plan on doing. Please tell me if you think this will be sufficient:

1. Isolated ceiling joists using the hat rails, double layer 5/8ths with Green Glue, insulated between joists, installed star ceiling through the double layer
2. single 2x4 stud walls, 2 layers of 5/8ths on the theater side and 2 layers of 5/8ths on the other side with green glue between all layers, r19 insulation in between
3. sealant for all perimeter seams, walls seams, and ceiling seams

What do you think? It may not be the absolute best but will it give me great results?


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## patchesj (Jun 17, 2009)

I guess it depends on what living space surrounds your theater. In my case I have a dining room directly above and the rest of the main living areas are farther away (kitchen on one side of dining room, open entry on the other). My kids bedrooms are more walls and at least 20 feet away to the closest. I would need to be listening at reference levels or greater and no ambient noise in the rest of the house before anyone would even know I was watching a movie. That's iso walls/ceiling, 2X 5/8, and GG....

Just make sure you don't do anything silly like tie your HVAC system directly to the vents in the room. To get the most benefit from 3X layers you would need to be VERY careful to seal all room penetrations and probably use 2 exterior fire rated doors (or "professional" sound proof doors).

Ted's site is an excellent source for drawings if you are having a hard time visualizing any of the concepts.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The specs on those tiles are hard to see what they're actually doing. They only give an NRC which is an average and does not include anything in the subwoofer range. NRC is an average of 250, 500, 1k, and 2kHz. I can have a product that's rated 1.0 at those 4 frequencies therefor having an NRC of 1.0 yet do zero at 50Hz. 

Even the heavy duty stuff is only 1/2 lb per square foot which is not enough mass to stop deep bass from escaping. They'll likely do a fine job in helping absorb inside the room but I'm doubting their efficacy in providing a proper isolation barrier.


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## patchesj (Jun 17, 2009)

If you use isolated joists, the hat rails become redundant and not required (in my opinion).


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

I misunderstood. I thought you were looking at floating joists, hence the link. Patchesj is right in that floating joists would receive no benefit from clips and channels. One or the other.

The decoupled ceiling via clips and channels is great decoupling also. Planning on standard R19 fiberglass in the ceiling?

I would try and decouple the wall framing also. Double studs, clips & channel or staggering will all be a distinct improvement over the single (coupled) stud arrangement you described.


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## patchesj (Jun 17, 2009)

Regarding the tiles, I think 5/8 type X is between 6 and 9 PCF. 12x to 18X the density. You can't beat mass for blocking sound...


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

Agreed with both of the last post. I was offering another way for doing a room. I was just simple giving my knowledge that I have when I was in construction and we built movie theaters like AMC. I know there is many ways to do things and get effects. All I know is we used it in commercial and that how 95% of the movie theaters are built and they work great why not take the same idea and move it into the house and tweek it a little.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

rf5000 said:


> Okay guys, here is what I plan on doing. Please tell me if you think this will be sufficient:
> 
> 1. Isolated ceiling joists using the hat rails, double layer 5/8ths with Green Glue, insulated between joists, installed star ceiling through the double layer
> 2. single 2x4 stud walls, 2 layers of 5/8ths on the theater side and 2 layers of 5/8ths on the other side with green glue between all layers, r19 insulation in between
> ...


If you're going to do a single 2x4 stud wall, I would use RSIC and hat channel on the inner wall also. 

Have you considered a staggered stud wall? 2x6 top and bottom plates with alternating 2x4 studs. This still separates the 2 sides of drywall from sharing studs but not taking as much time or space. A good intermediate solution if you can't do room in a room.

Bryan


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

Lots of good info on here. Man there is so many dif ways to do things and so many good ideas and products. 
bpape, about the drop ceiling I wasnt stating that it was and isolation berior I was just saying that you could use it that way along with the hat type system your talking about so that he could add the star effect and also help deaden the sound.
A room inside a room is also a great way to do it to.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

No prob. I still learn stuff every day - that's why I asked to see if there was something that may be a viable option for those that can't do drywall.

Sure - using a drop tile below the double drywall would be a great way to go. Now we just need to get them in black - lol

Bryan


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

bpape said:


> No prob. I still learn stuff every day - that's why I asked to see if there was something that may be a viable option for those that can't do drywall.
> 
> Sure - using a drop tile below the double drywall would be a great way to go. Now we just need to get them in black - lol
> 
> Bryan


I believe they come in black well at least the ones we used did.
Now I just have to get me a house and make my room.


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay guys confused a bit again.

A floating ceiling is one that is separated from the ceiling joists by the hat channels? Or do you mean it is decoupled from the walls by using those clips? Do you recommend using separating the drywall from the ceiling joists and then also using those clips/spacers to separate the walls from the ceiling joists? Or do you recommend doing one or the other?

Also, when speaking of staggering the walls, do you mean using a wide enough top plate and bottom plate to fit two rows of studs for the outer and inner walls? Then placing the studs in a staggered fashion so they don't each other?

Sorry


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/library/articles/room_within_a_room/

This article shows both the staggered stud and floating joist concepts.

Floating joists are new joists that you insert between the old. This accomplishes decoupling. The clips and channels also accomplish this.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Another side note, In order of efficiency, you have double stud walls as best, followed by Clip&Channel, then staggered and lastly a single stud wall.

Double stud is excellent, however using a single stud wall with Clip&Channel will save interior wall space. Double stud walls add 4.5" of depth, while Clip&Channel only add 1 3/8". In a double wall you would be adding R13 insulation to both walls, while a Clip&Channel requires only one wall to be insulated. So Clip&Channel is actually less costly than a double wall.

Staggered stud walls take up space and share a common top and bottom plate which limits decoupling efforts. Lab data reflects this. Insulation is also tricky, as it is best installed vertically, rather than in a weave between the staggered studs. The weave can get pinched / compressed when the drywall is added, causing unwanted conduction through the insulation


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

bpape, I was just looking at all the posts here and realized that there was an add on here bout drop ceiling tiles, the add shows theater rooms and stuff check it out its www.ceilume.com. Kinda crazy of all the talk bout drop ceiling and I never noticed it untill now.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

A lot of people choose Ceilume, in fact. It's very sharp looking stuff.


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

The stuff looks pretty sharp from the couple of pic that I saw. Is that stuff expensive or pretty reasonable?


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

I've not priced it but I've heard it isn't cheap.


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## bmurphy2121 (Jun 14, 2010)

Ted White said:


> I've not priced it but I've heard it isn't cheap.


Dosent surprise me stuff that nice prob costs a pretty penny.


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay lets use this picture as a way to figure this out. Now building the tray around the perimeter of the room with the lights glowing like that is easy. What I would like help with is the actual star ceiling above that. Now if that is going to be my double 5/8ths green glued layer, that is separated from the ceiling joists, can a install the star ceiling through it? Or will that be next to impossible considering I have to poke about 1000 fiber optic ends through the double layer and glue? And if I could accomplish this, would having all those tiny holes affect the sound absorbtion properties or defeat my purpose?


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That's pretty funny actually that you would use that picture since I designed that room for Ruben. :bigsmile:

Doing the fibers through the double drywall is going to be pretty tough to do and maintain the staggered seams, etc. How are you going to get them through? Not seeing how it's going to happen. I would just hang a less massive panel like thin pressboard down below the drywall a couple of inches to allow space for the fibers to bend gently and allow you to do it all a piece at a time and with pieces that are a lot lighter and easier to handle.

Bryan


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## rf5000 (Mar 13, 2010)

bpape said:


> That's pretty funny actually that you would use that picture since I designed that room for Ruben. :bigsmile:
> 
> Doing the fibers through the double drywall is going to be pretty tough to do and maintain the staggered seams, etc. How are you going to get them through? Not seeing how it's going to happen. I would just hang a less massive panel like thin pressboard down below the drywall a couple of inches to allow space for the fibers to bend gently and allow you to do it all a piece at a time and with pieces that are a lot lighter and easier to handle.
> 
> Bryan


Okay sounds good, but what would I secure the pressboard to and how would I make it totally secure sounds it doesn't flex 
and make noise


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I would just use some 1x2 firring screwed through the drywall into the hat channel above. You can use that to give the spacing you need for fibers as well as to tie the edges of the panels down. A lot of people who do starfields do them in sections and cover with cloth. Glue the fibers from the back side with hot glue and once you get everything going, you just clip the fibers flush.

Bryan


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## m kevin (Feb 21, 2010)

same boat, need help myself..just trying to get my 5 posts so i can list my question--good luck


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

I thing Bryan's ideas are excellent. Just be sure that any suspended panel below the double drywall is very low mass, or else a Triple Leaf can be created.


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## RVAtheater (Jan 6, 2011)

bpape said:


> Another little tip, when you drywall, do the ceiling, then all the walls, then the 2nd layer of ceiling, then 2nd layer of walls. That makes sure that the upper seam is not a straight seam all the way through.
> 
> Also, when doing double drywall, you'll want to put a couple extra studs in the corners to make sure you have plenty of surface to run screws into. Tends to get a bit tight with only 1 stud in the corner. Some people do double top plates too for the same reason when framing.
> 
> Bryan


VERY GOOD ADVICE. So many times the corners are missed and there is nothing to screw the drywall into, especially when you are talking double or triple layers. 

So with the RSIC clips you lose nearly 1-7/8" from the joists. Auralex makes their resilient channel (Z-channel) to only 1/2" drop down. I'm going to hang 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on a ceiling so should I add more Z-channel instead of the minimum 2' separation required by auralex? I've got a hard surface on the 1st floor of the house but I'm going to hang those 2 layers of 5/8" with green glue in the middle. How much would I gain or lose by the using the Z-channel or not using it? I'm also adding R-30 insulation in the joists as well between the floors. Just curious since it would save a ton of money, installation, and work to hang that Z-channel and most of the drywall groups don't want to deal with it. Plus if they miss the channel and hit a joist its all for nothing, right? If I hang the Z-channel it looks like I'm doing the ceiling drywall myself.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Be VERY careful with using channel. It's very very (did I say very?) easy to short it out with a screw or 2 in the wrong place, not to mention not being nearly as effective as the other way.

If you need to save some space, you can use RSIC-V clips or Whisper Clips which will reduce about 3/4" of the requirement.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

We wouldn't and don't spec resilient channel. The fact is there is no single standard for its construction. Some is 20 gauge, some 25, some in between. Some are slotted for flex, some are solid, some have holes. The design of the channel is not standardized. Not something we can count on. Also, it is likely (statistically) that some of it will be installed incorrectly.

Again, there isn't a standard for either strength or flexibility. Drywall Furring Channel, on the other hand, is specified by the Steel Stud Manufacturers Association, along with all other steel framing components. 

This method of decoupling is effective if the steel can act like a spring. Since there's no manufacturing standard with RC, the net result is that you have no idea if the resilient channel is too stiff (no spring) or too loose (no spring).


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