# 2007 Ford Sport Trac Limited - Aftermarket Audio System Install



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Ughhh... here I go again!

Reluctantly I am going to do this, although I am having a hard time getting motivated to do it. 

I am replacing the factory head unit, door speakers and adding a sub to my recently acquired 07 ST Limited.

*Headunit Parts*

Pioneer AVH-P3300BT 5.8-Inch DVD Receiver - $339 shipped.









Pioneer GEX-P920XM XM Satellite Tuner - $90.99 shipped.









Metra 95-5812 Double DIN Installation Kit - $10.52 shipped.

Scosche FDK11B Wiring Harness - $14.94 shipped.

PAC SWI-PS Pioneer and Sony Universal Steering Wheel Radio Interface - $38.99 shipped.


*Door Speakers*

Infinity Reference 6832cf 5 x 7 - $51.95/pair shipped.










*Subwoofer*

MTX Audio Thunderform FEXST01BK10A-T45 (Black, Amplified) - $467.99 shipped.









or...

MTX Audio Thunderform FEXST01BK10A-FPR - $549.00 shipped.









The T45 Thunderform includes the older model Thunder4500 10" sub at 225 watts RMS, while the FPR Thunderform includes a newer shallow mount FPR 10" sub at 300 watts RMS... if I am getting it right.

I am not really up to building my own box, finishing it, installing the driver and amp. I think one of the MTX Thunderforms will serve me plenty well enough.

What I am really more undecided about is the door speakers and whether or not to use the factory amp or go ahead and install an aftermarket amp. I am thinking an aftermarket amp might be worth it. I am going to have to run a power wire to the battery anyway, so mounting an amp on the rear wall behind the seat and using a power distributor for powering it and the sub amp would be fairly easy to do.

One option would be to get the non-amplified version of the Thunderform, saving about $200 and applying that money towards a 5-channel amp, powering the sub and door speakers.

XD700/5 - JL Audio 5-Channel 700W Class D Amplifier - $400 shipped.









or...

Alpine PDX-5 Class D Amp - $375 shipped.









Ideas, suggestions and comments are appreciated.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

You should definatly use an outboard amp for the door speakers, Headunits never have the power required to do them justice and acheive the volumes you may be after. As for the sub i guess i would read reviews on the 2 and go from there, also if you can save $200 by getting a 5 channel amp and it has adequete power for the job thats what i would do. :T


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Car audio is much more my specialty than home is. Are your stock speakers a 5x7 coax or are they a component set? If components then replace with components. You will be happier with the results. I don't want to seem as though I am talking down your choice, but i think you may also be happier with something other than the infinity set you show. Do a search for phoenix gold rsd components or coaxials, much smoother than the infinity refs. Also consider taking some time to do a little deadening on the doors and seal the large holes up, it will open up a dimension of sound and impact from your doors that you never thought possible. 

An amp is a great idea, because as stated before headunit power won't give you the oomph you're after. 

Now onto a sub. There's a billion choices out there. I assume you are after something more stealthy? And pre-fabricated? If you were to do the mtx setup definitely save some coin and do the non-amplified version, since you are considering an amp anyway. I could literally geek out on this topic all day long, but i won't. Do yourself a favor, research it until you want to pull your hair out and then research it some more. Nothing works better than a great plan to start with.

Don't know how recommending other sites goes over here, but look into diymobileaudio.com and you will find everything from huge uber spendy sq competition cars to budget beaters to shake the toilet from a block away spl builds. A couple minor tweaks and you have a nicer than average setup in your ride, good luck!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi Andy...

Thanks for the input. I am actually a member of nearly all of the car audio forums... probably a half dozen or more. Also done quite a few car and trucks ... you can see a few of them here: http://www.snapbug.ws/caraudio.html

These are indeed 5x7/6x8 factory speakers. I really don't feel like fiddling with the tweeter mounting, but who knows... I may end up going component. I really just want better than the factory which are terrible. These particular Infinities are fairly popular. However, I am a solid fan of PG. I actually have a couple of PG amps that are still in the box... Xenon X1200.1 and X200.4 that I purchased for backups when I did my last system. My daughter still has my old Xenon X10d2 subs that were in one of my previous cars... and they are absolutely awesome. She simply cannot destroy them no matter how hard she keeps trying. 

I ain't so crazy about their RSd line as I was their Xenon line, but that does not mean I won't consider them. Their 5 x 7's just don't seem to impress me that much. The Infinity's may not be any better though. However, for what I am looking for, probably either would work. I also plan to do a little bit of treatment as well. 

It may be that I end up using the factory sub location with an upgraded 8" sub. It is a molded enclosure and seems about as respectable as the MTX or JL Audio molded enclosures, at least from what I can tell before extracting it from the vehicle, which I plan to do. I want to find out the cubic volume, so I plan to take it out and see how many gallons of water I can get in it and convert it to cubic feet. If it works out to be .4 or better, I think I can find a formidable 8" sub to work there... put a little power on it and I should be fine. That would save me a LOT of money too. 

This truck is basically a piddle around truck. I won't drive it more than twice a week, so I don't want to get too carried away. I am certainly not looking for anything spectacular from this system. If I were gonna go all out, it would be in my BMW, which actually has a worthwhile factory system. I completely cringe at thinking about taking it apart, so I live with it as is. Maybe in a few years with the new wears off... I might consider doing something then. I am just getting too old for this stuff. lddude:


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Awesome! Ya know you're stuff! Nice work by the way. I agree that the PG Rsd's aren't the best in the world, but they will beat the infinity set and stocks by a longshot. If i remember correctly ID makes a very nice set from what I've been told. There are a ton of 8s out there that will probably perform really well once you figure your box volume. 

I can absolutely relate to the getting older and not wanting to tear a car apart for audio. I'm 37 and swore I wasn't going to do a complicated rebuild on my car the last time I tore it apart. Simplicity was the plan. 

That's how I ended up with a 4way active system (3way front + sub) aftermarket headunit, JBL MS8, a JBL 6 ch amp, a JBL mono, a JBL sub, a 6ch linedriver and a load of new wiring. Aaaahhhhh simplicity Lol.

A 5ch solution like the pdx you showed is very cool with a tiny footprint, however if you still have the PG 4ch it will throw fond of power to the fronts and you have 2ch left to bridge for a sub and you aren't out of pocket on it. 

Hope some of this is a tiny bit of help, spitballing ideas is always a good time.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hmmm... 200 x 2 plus 400 x 1... solid power for sure. You know... if that X200.4 wasn't fifty-eleven feet long, that would be a great amp to work with. It's just so big, but I bet it would fit behind the back seat area pretty easy. I could run the rear speakers off the head unit... or skip them and just run fronts... might want a bit of rear fill though. 

Definitely some good spitballing... I did not really think about it until you suggested it. You definitely got me thinking.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Lol its a beast for sure but its hard to beat good ol A/B power in a car. If ya really want rear fill then i say stick em on head power, but conventional thinking in SQ oriented car audio is instead of spending $ on rear fill that muddies your stage, spend extra on your fronts since you want a more accurate image in the front for music, or keep your stock rears and when you are alone in the car or have one passenger up front keep it faded to the front. When you have peeps in the back seat dial the rears in so they can hear them as well.

If you can find one of the older ID or IDQ 8s you will be golden. Not a huge fan of the IDQ v3 stuff with the infamous cracking plastic baskets, but i hear when they work they sound awesome. I'm running a single JBL p-1022 off of a JBL bpx500.1 (baby crown) and it brings more than enough thunder for this ol basshead.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am not sure if it will fit yet at 4⅜" mounting depth and proper enclosure volume, but the JBL GTO804 8" sub has been well received by the car audio community. I think it needs at least .3ft³.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

That's definitely not a lot of depth but i suppose if you needed you could add a baffle.

The gto series subs are all highly regarded. Can't say I've heard one but i have yet to use a jbl product that was dissapointing.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Did a little bit of testing today and I think this factory enclosure is going to be just fine. It is pretty solid. It appears to be made out of the same thing the MTX Thunderforms are made of... polyethylene maybe? Anyway... it is ¼" thick. Total volume ended up at .467ft³... which is plenty for several sealed 8" drivers. That is not counting the raised areas where I could not get water. I will have plug a few holes with some JB Weld. The factory sub is DVC and not so shabby, although it won't handle very much power.

JBL GTO 804D box recommendation specs with T/S parameters.

The JBL GTO 804D calls for .3ft³ for sealed with fairly decent in-car response. If I end up going with it then I will have to use a spacer for the depth and the cut-out. I got 7.5" on the cut-out now, which is slightly too large for the JBL. It can handle up to 5" in depth with a bit of modification to take the factory hump out of the back of the box and cover it.

The door speakers are surprisingly plate components, although they sound terrible. Otherwise, there is really nothing looking too easy for components. There is not a really good location for tweeters outside the door or anywhere else for that matter. Those door speakers are max 2.5" in depth... it is very tight.

Here are a few pics of the sub, enclosure and what I am dealing with... and the HUGE factory amp.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Personally i don't think you'll be dissapointed by the Coax's, i had a set of Infinity's years ago and they were awesome for my needs.:T


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

That's plenty of volume for an 8 and it could always be stuffed with polyfill to increase the volume the speaker sees if you were to find a different 8 in your hunt. Shrinking the internal volume is always easier if needed but normally a box that is slightly larger than spec will just have smoother low end extension. Most manufacturer specs are a comfortable medium but jbl gets theirs pretty spot on, and once you factor in driver displacement you will be golden on your internal volume in my opinion. 

So your doors contain seperates on a plate? Any chance you would have enough room to do a traditional set of 6.5" components on a 3/4" baffle in the stock location? That would give you a tad more depth to work with and a traditional speaker size with a billion options that are cost effective and sound great.

I will also agree that i loved infinity speakers years ago, they were great sounding and smooth. The newer stuff in my opinion leans towards peaky and harsh but low in a door it may sound fine. Considering some of the stuff that the OP has used in the past I really can't honestly say the infinitys will satisfy him. The sonata build with morel comps must be smooth as silk, and the factory bimmer system is no slouch either.


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Oh yeah! now your talkin i'd love to get some morels, there is a reason they cost so much though. When MB Quart was still MB Quart that was all i played with, could not beat the sound those speakers put out.:T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

One more thing to add is that alot of componet getups come as convertabels. Meaning you can turn the component (or seperate) into a coaxial type speaker.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

No doubt the morel gear is nice, haven't used any myself yet but mostly because I enjoy the challenge of putting a hodgepodge of speakers together myself to try and achieve good sound Lol. I was told that JL bought all the equipment and tooling and designs from the OG Quart factory and that their components are in essence the old school quart. Can't say 100% positive, but I can't deny it either. And the old MB Quart engineers started a new company called German Maestro but with all due respect I don't think they hold a candle to their original gear


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

bambino said:


> One more thing to add is that alot of componet getups come as convertabels. Meaning you can turn the component (or seperate) into a coaxial type speaker.


Yes! I always forget about that feature. One of the big advantages in that design is the fact that you still utilize the outboard crossover network instead of traditional manufacturers generic cap on a tweet in a coax


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

The "new Mb Quart" is owned by Maxxonics which i haven't a clue as to the other companys they have there hands in but i'd bet JL isn't one but as well i can't say for sure. German maestro on the other hand would certainly be one to consider.

I've always been one for a company that specializes in speakers, another amps and another decks and EQ's Etc.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Correct, maxxsonics owns the new quart, I was told JL bought the original designs, tooling etc from when quart was QUART Lol. There are quite a few companies out there who still have some proprietary products and designs but the amount of gear out there that is just re-branded is scary. The price difference in those identical products is even scarier. I won't point out any of it and keep myself out of trouble here :innocent:


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

No worries here, it seems that alot of companies copy designs from one another, we do it all the time and i build garbage trucks which are supposably proprietary but we use or copy other companies designs.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Some of the best highs I ever had were the Dynaudio MD102's... incredible off-axis response that introduced the best imaging and sound stage I have ever heard in a vehicle. $300 just for tweeters though... hard to do in a piddle around truck.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Tang Band W8-740P 8" maybe?


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Yessir those are some nice tweets. And like you said, the cost is awful hard to justify in an occasionally driven vehicle. I do really like bambinos idea of the convertable components instead of a 5x7 drop in. A simple mdf baffle cut to the shape of your stock speaker with a 6.5 and tweet with the crossover tucked away somewhere will be leaps and bounds above a coax.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I ain't sure I can get it to fit, but I will check it and see. The problem I think is going to be the baffle. It would have to be ¼" board. If I could find some thick ¼" poly or abs and use it for the cut-out baffle, that might work. I don't think wood would hold up. Anything thicker will hit the door panel... it is laying up against the factory plate now, which has the speakers cover with flat grills to protect them.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hmmm... here is something that might work. ABS Plastic Sheet. I could also build a trim ring spacer to go around the speaker edge to keep the door panel off the speaker.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

http://sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/item/e8-v2-8-subwoofer.html?category_id=3 check this lil fella out. I used one of his SA-12 subs in my last build and it was my favorite to date. Got loud, stayed articulate and took power. I don't know if his SA-8 will fit but its a true beast. Let me take a quick peek @ the gto series and i will report back


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## gorb (Sep 5, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> you can see a few of them here: http://www.snapbug.ws/caraudio.html


Very nice work. I have a 2006 sonata (just the base model though) and I would love to upgrade the audio...but what you did is a little too much for me. The extra weight of the dynamat alone would kill me since the base 4cyl I've got is already too slow D: I definitely want to replace the speakers/headunit/get subwoofers one of these days though.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

AndyInOC said:


> http://sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/item/e8-v2-8-subwoofer.html?category_id=3 check this lil fella out. I used one of his SA-12 subs in my last build and it was my favorite to date. Got loud, stayed articulate and took power. I don't know if his SA-8 will fit but its a true beast. Let me take a quick peek @ the gto series and i will report back


It would certainly fit at 4.25" mounting depth, although that sounds short for the size it looks.

Does Xmax of 10.5mm one-way linear mean 21mm peak to peak? That is outrageous for an 8" sub. :yikes:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am cheating a bit... but started a model thread here.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

For the $ I honestly don't think you will beat the gto 8. Nice power handling, nice specs, good sensitivity at approx. 88db @ 1w1m, decent xmax @ 11.5mm and I bet it will sound good to boot. 

There are a lot of guys using abs cutting boards for baffles, mainly because i think you could find them at a decent price at any Walmart or other discount store and it will cut super easy with simple woodworking tools.

Keep in mind this is a rough guess, but a slightly larger than spec box on the gto will yield good results with a nice balance of loudness and sound quality.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

gorb said:


> Very nice work. I have a 2006 sonata (just the base model though) and I would love to upgrade the audio...but what you did is a little too much for me. The extra weight of the dynamat alone would kill me since the base 4cyl I've got is already too slow D: I definitely want to replace the speakers/headunit/get subwoofers one of these days though.


Thanks gorb... I really enjoyed my two Sonata's. I still see the girl that bought my 09 model... and she is still jammin' hard!


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> It would certainly fit at 4.25" mounting depth, although that sounds short for the size it looks.
> 
> Does Xmax of 10.5mm one-way linear mean 21mm peak to peak? That is outrageous for an 8" sub. :yikes:


Yessir, 10.5 one way, jbl is 11.5 one way as well I believe. If they rate the xmax peak to peak its normally noted as such. Also a good idea to keep your amp bridged @ 4ohm, I like efficiency and headroom, its easier on stock electrical in a car like mine.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Tang Bang is 12mm.

OK... it's been a while since I fiddled with them, so maybe 21mm peak to peak ain't so outrageous. My previous 10's were 40mm peak to peak.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Here is one for you... Alpine SWR-823D


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Here's a bit about those Alpines:

*Segmented Motor Structure w/ 1pc Frame and Shorting Ring*
There a 6 magnets, radially segmented and aligned around the shorting ring/frame/heatsink. The shorting ring is connected to the frame via three legs that allow the entire frame to act as a heatsink... it is directly connected to the exo-skeleton of the frame with one of three radial ribs the fit through the segments in the magnets. We intro'd this design with our 2010 Type R 10" and 12" and we've carried this into the new 8"s as well …. it’s a pain in the butt to tool and assembly but the results are worth it. 

Result: 
*Great Power Handling:* 350W RMS / 1000W Peak Power Handling
*Super Low Inductance:* 0.55mH (843D) / 0.67mH Le (823D) and its very well tamed and symmetrical with respect to both displacement and current. Graphs attached.

*

H.A.M.R. Surround and FEA Optimized Spider *
Just about perfect progressive compliance that is light and soft enough for super fast transients, but strong enough for full-power operation while unloaded in a vented enclosure or in free-air IB.

Result: 
*Durability:* If any of you have been able to come to our CES Roadshow trainings, you’ll see the 823D run free-air at full clip on an M6 without a hiccup.
*Sound Quality:* We’ve actually been running these as midbass/front subs (56-250Hz/20-250Hz) in the Camaro Demo car. The speed, accuracy and power of these guys in astounding! I’ve got an 8W3 here and an IDQ8 and they can’t hold a candle to it, especially when you get some real power into them (to my ears at least). This SQ isn’t only a function of the suspension, but during my final approvals, I found the difference in suspension materials to play quite a critical role … so I give the suspension credit here. Graphs attached.


*CRC Pole Piece / High-Grade Y40 Magnets* 
14mm of Klippel verified Xmax (70%) stands out from the crowd not only in linear stroke, but also in symmetry. These are extremely well controlled woofers. Graphs attached.

Result:
*High-Output: * These aren’t Jacob’s crazy eights … but they’ll get more than plenty loud and keep their composure while doing it. I absolutely love these in 0.50cubes @35Hz … tons of output for any sane person and a pair of them will smile all day on a PDX-M12.
*Small Box Requirements: * In the CES Demo Camaro, we’ve got them in a plate steel enclosure roughly the size of the woofer’s magnet (0.1-0.2 cubes). For a QTC of 0.90, try a quarter cube. Essentially, they work in boxes smaller than the shipping container they come it. Ported, 0.3-0.5 cubes and keep them in the mid to upper 30s … and they’ll do it with SQ to boot in a vented enclosure.
*Efficiency:* They are 8s, so no 88dB numbers here, but they are 83.5dB efficient and have the excursion and power handling only to get louder from there.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

If the specs don't lie the jbl is substantially more sensitive than the tang band, and substantially cheaper than the type r. Even if you buy it authorized from crutchfield its only $80 and if you hit amazon you get it even cheaper. For $45 on amazon I would even throw my sundown suggestion out the window and go with the jbl lol.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

If we are talking 100 bucks... no big deal. I would be more interested in which one will be the best from 30-80Hz or so... suspecting I can get the doors to take care of 80Hz and up.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Looks to me like the newest revision type r like you linked retails around $160, the older type argh which were more of a one note wonder can be had cheaper. I haven't played a sub to 80 in a looooong time. I only worry up to 63hz lol the doors take over from there.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am saving a good big by using my own amp and not buying the Thunderform... so I may just buy two or three of the 8's and try each of them. I can get some of the 1" ABS plastic sheets and cut-out the proper spacers for each sub... place each one for a few days and swap them out until I find the one I like the mostest. :huh:


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I can get the R for 100 bucks shipped from Sonic Electronics.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> I am saving a good big by using my own amp and not buying the Thunderform... so I may just buy two or three of the 8's and try each of them. I can get some of the 1" ABS plastic sheets and cut-out the proper spacers for each sub... place each one for a few days and swap them out until I find the one I like the mostest. :huh:


Yup that's how most of us do it, investigate, gather opinion and trial and error. That type r really likes power doesn't it? Never seen an 8 rated to 1kw lol


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Well... actually that is peak. 400 should be perfect for it.







The optimum sealed enclosure for it though is .3 (.25 net) and I have about .47 to .50 (counting the raised areas). They probably designed it to be .5 ... therefore I would be at .45 net. That is max they recommend for sealed. I wonder if closed cell foam would take away air space?


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum...arisons/106292-alpine-swr-823d-game-over.html here is a review done by a guy I actually bought one of my amps from, a straight shooter if ever there was one and an absolutely stellar review for the sub.

I've always used mdf to take up airspace in a box if needed, not sure if closed cell will work or not to be honest. Maybe a different type of cloth with a high density? A bunch of tshirts bundled up? cut the front off the box, brace the snot out of it with mdf which will also shrink volume and then glue it back together? I suppose at that point you may as well fab up an entirely new box though.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Funny... I have read that entire thread along with the one from Jim at Alpine. Good stuff!

Jim mentions using .5 cubes for a little better extension, so I can play around with it. I just wonder if the factory enclosure will even work for any of these, but building a small box would be easy enough too.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Until I read the review I wrote those off as the same ol one note wonder that they started out as, but it seems they've improved by leaps and bounds. Probably still never see one in my car, but I would love to hear one and see if it changed my mind.

Now on to the front stage... The real fun


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am gonna give the Massive CK6 Stage 5 components a spin to start off with. I understand their midbass speaker is the bomb... tuned very well for infinite baffle. I was able to pick them up for $170 shipped.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Funny enough I was going to toss those out there as a possibility. I've heard really good things about the massive comps as well, the only complaint being that the tweeter was too bright. I haven't been able to find much info about those but I do know that massive was in the process of addressing the issue with the tweets, so hopefully that's what makes the Mark V the Mark V.

I constantly have to tell myself "its not broken, don't fix it" on my current setup, keep that mantra in mind, especially considering its an occasional driver. Worst case you could always experiment with an active setup... Lol. That was what started my own addiction to car audio.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yeah... supposedly the Stage V version fixes the "loud" tweeter issue.

I could do the active setup again... I still have another Xenon 1200.1 mono amp that I could use on the Alpine sub. I might blow it up... boom! It sure wouldn't be lacking power.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Yeah you have plenty of gear, but keep it simple. More than once on my newest build I've considered going back to a simpler 2 way active setup in front but i finally found some mids to keep me happy...as long as my wife doesn't kick in one of these ones like she did the last ones.

Oddly enough i also see the overall cost of my speakers dropping rapidly the more I replace them too.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Went and took a closer look at the stage v massives and they look pretty nice for sure. Personally I love a carbon fiber mid, and the pictures show an aluminum dome tweet which I also tend to like. On the previous ck6 comps I know there was an optional silk dome, don't know if there was on these or not. Since I assume you're putting it together low in the door I don't think it will matter a whole lot. Keep me updated on how you like them, if i decide to get rid of my car I will be in the market for a 2 way set.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Their site indicates they are 28mm silk dome.

I plan to put them in the window sail.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Pictures show aluminum but specs show silk, exactly like they used to show Lol. Love me some sail mounted tweets, gets the stage nice and high. On axis or off? Or I suppose give em a listen and then decide.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am not sure I can get them on-axis, but I can angle them a bit and experiment.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

89 db sensitivity with 8.9mm xmax... Very nice, those lil guys should have some real authority! Really like the fact that there's spots for tweeter attenuation on the crossover too. I am gonna jump the gun and say great choice on the comps!

I always try to aim my tweets (in the sails also) towards the center of the car, neither completely on or off axis and in my opinion its always a comfortable medium.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am pretty anxious to hear them myself. Mid-bass has always been on the weaker side of all of my installs, despite my efforts to make the door the best it could be for the speaker.

I have usually had good success aiming them at the center dome light... or the center of the roof between the two front seats. On my last install, Rodny pre-fabbed my tweeter pods and they were more off-axis than not... and they worked out really well... even without applying any time delay.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Trying to pull bass / midbass out of a door is tough for all of us. All we can do is seal and deaden and pray that it works. I fab all of my own stuff and do all of my install work but I'm nowhere near able to fab up sealed door pods for midbass drivers. Or maybe the ability is there but the desire isn't lol. keep it simple and hope the driver responds well in the IB door conditions


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Welp... ran into a few snags along the way. 

The Phoenix Gold amp I had was dead. I had swapped it out of my former Sonata and put the other one in there, but thought it was still okay (long story). I suppose it wasn't. At any rate, it is still under warranty, so I am sending it to Phoenix Gold for repair. I just happened to get a SquareTrade Warranty when I purchased it on ebay.

So... I bit the bullet and picked up a JL Audio HD900/5, which gives me 150 watts bridged on the Massive front stage and 500 watts for the sub. The Massives are ridiculous... best separates I have EVER had in a car system. 

I mounted the Alpine sub in the factory location, but at .5ft³ ... it's too much volume and bottoms out. I have a small .25ft³ box built for it and plan to test it tomorrow, but in the mean time, I took the SoundSplinter Orphan 8" sub driver that Mike sent me and stuck it in a small .26ft³ box and it is unbelievable! That thing is a monster for an 8 inch sub in that small of a box. Simply amazing! It feels like I have a much larger sub back there. I am still in awe at how hard it can hit. I cannot imagine the Alpine being as good or better, although it has been pretty good at medium to med-high volumes. I will still give it a chance in the proper size box before making my final judgment... but the Orphan is incredible thus far.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> Welp... ran into a few snags along the way.
> 
> The Phoenix Gold amp I had was dead. I had swapped it out of my former Sonata and put the other one in there, but thought it was still okay (long story). I suppose it wasn't. At any rate, it is still under warranty, so I am sending it to Phoenix Gold for repair. I just happened to get a SquareTrade Warranty when I purchased it on ebay.
> 
> ...



In my opinion that says a LOT about the Massive components considering some of the gear you have had in the past. What crossover points are you using? Are the doors deadened and sealed or ??? I have heard nothing but good things about the JL HD series amps, one of these days I may need to give full range class D another shot but for now I'll stick with my A/B goodies.

I forgot all about SoundSplinter but they have always made some killer subs and the nice part is that if you decide to sell the Alpine you can probably just about break even on it.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Decided yesterday that I was tired of fiddling with a 3way front soooooo I bought a 4ch amp and am gonna go back to my tried and true 2way active madness. Not entirely sure what drivers I will go with yet but I'm leaning towards some ushers and full format tweets since I love to DIY my speakers lol


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am not sure about the mid-bass to tweeter crossover point of the CK6 crossovers... probably 2500k. I am using 80Hz on the mid-bass to sub.

I did use Dynamat Extreme on the inside of the doors and completely sealed the door with it on the door skin as well. I wished I had take some pics, but forgot to do so before putting the door back on. I also put the factory skin back on over the Dynamat as well. I installed DE and Dynapad in the back... back wall, back corners, sealed around the back window... back floor up to behind the back seats. The rear is where most of the road noise was coming from, but she is super quiet now.

I am not sure why, but the Massive's actually sound a little better using the single front channel at 100 wrms vs the bridged at 150 wrms. They seem to harshen up a bit when bridged. I tried the -3db tweeter connection on the crossover, but that did not seem to help. When I first hooked up the speakers to the amp, I did not have the appropriate Y-adapters required for the RCA inputs to bridge the channels, so I just used the front channel at the normal 100 wrms. When I got the adapters in and connected it up in the bridged mode... set the input sensitivity of each channel with my DMM, they were way too loud at 3/4 volume, so I backed them down appropriately, but never could seem to get that harshness out of the high end. Swapped it back to just the front channel input and they sounds fine. Go figure! 


As far as the comparison on the Alpine vs the Soundsplinter... it ends up that there is really no comparison. I got the Alpine in the appropriate sized box with a new volume at about .27ft³. I tested both in the same location... swapping them out at the factory sub location (firing forward).










The Orphan blows away the Alpine in nearly every way possible. It can handle much more abuse... does not disappear at lower volumes... and has excellent frequency range. It is incredible to say the least. I am still astounded at what that little sub can do. So... the Orphan it will be.

Here are pics of the install...


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Nice write up and nice install! I've never been a huge fan of alpine (may have said so before) and honestly I'm not suprised that the orphan performs better than the type argh. Great choice on songs to take a pic of the headunit with too, loves me some Floyd. Those massive components have been intriguing me for quite some time now, and so are the aura comps that PE is blowing out for $56. 

For the time being I will just stick with my ID OEM / seas neo combo and pick up different drivers to try here n there. Funny enough the combo I mentioned was my first active setup a few years back, and now I will be running it again just with much more processing power thanks to the MS8.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I think I may want to do some eq'ing. I wonder is there an EQ out there that has a built in x-over? Maybe I can use the other 100 wrms in the rear channel and go active.

This is three 1/6 octave measurement averages each for the left ear, nose and right ear... 









This is the average of those three (all nine measurements)...


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Aaaahhhhh active... The best and worst decision of my life all rolled up into one Lol. Audio Control makes a piece that will do eq and crossover in one package, I believe its the EQX but it may be one of their smaller units. Essentially you open it up and there are chips inside, you can either buy chips from them for the freq you want or get sockets and resistors and build your own. That was actually my first foray into active and it was extremely simple, cost effective and it worked. Only drawback was that i had to dial the eq from the back of the car.

In this day and age there are processors like the JBL ms8, Audison bit.one or the discard threesixty.two that sort of do it all, but are spendy. The ms8 I own, its still a trial and error process to get right but works pretty well. The Audison is a tad buggy but incredible when it works proper. The Discard should be avoided in my opinion because of noise issues and tempermental behavior. Also there's the alpine imprint system which takes user friendly to a new low Lol. 

Let me think and peek around and see any other ideas that strike me


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

The Audio Control DQX is looking pretty sweet... with the DDC control unit.

I am not seeing any advantage to the DQXS over the DQX... at least not for my setup.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Ahh... the DQXS allows input of Front, Rear and Sub from the head unit, whilst the DQX only allows one input, so the sub controls on the head unit would not be usable... not that you would necessarily need them. The S also has 30 bands of EQ + 2 parametric bands for the Front output (and again for the Rear - which I would not be using)... then another 16 bands + 2 parametric for the Sub output. A bit more flexible for what looks like would only be about another 30-40 bucks.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> The Audio Control DQX is looking pretty sweet... with the DDC control unit.
> 
> I am not seeing any advantage to the DQXS over the DQX... at least not for my setup.


Those units are suuuuhhhhwwweeeeet for sure, not sure of price or availability. I suggested the other just because I'm cheap LOL. Depending on cost and brand preference you may as well look into the ms8. Get it all dialed in how you want it, set the volume control to about -5 and then just use your headunit for everything after that


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> Ahh... the DQXS allows input of Front, Rear and Sub from the head unit, whilst the DQX only allows one input, so the sub controls on the head unit would not be usable... not that you would necessarily need them. The S also has 30 bands of EQ + 2 parametric bands for the Front output (and again for the Rear - which I would not be using)... then another 16 bands + 2 parametric for the Sub output. A bit more flexible for what looks like would only be about another 30-40 bucks.


Gotcha! I believe the DQXS also does 5.1 if you do movies in car. Personally I prefer a sub control on the amp itself, but that's all strictly preference. And you are absolutely correct that for such a negligible price difference you may as well get the big fella


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

There are about 50 dealers within 300 miles of me that sell AudioControl mobile audio. I will start calling them tomorrow until I find someone who has had one in stock for a while and willing to deal to get rid of it... or someone just willing to deal period. 

The MS8 looks pretty nifty, but doesn't offer the extra PEQ bands for each channel.

How about a 3Sixty.3 with 248 PEQ bands... :unbelievable:


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Nice! I'll never say anything but good about AC products. I like my ms8, it works quite well for a set it and forget it solution (which is what I was after this time around) Has a 31 band parametric only so after your auto tune runs you can still fiddle with it. I'll know how it works with a 2way front stage in the next couple weeks since I got a new 4ch, new mids and may even throw some new tweets in the mix as well.

The RF unit keeps getting delayed, dunno what the holdup is this time...


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I need to update this thread... got the Audio Control unit installed for an active system now. Changed out the subwoofer again to the Sundown SD10. I will take some new pics and post them.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Nice! Active is just so much fun! How do you like the SD10? In my opinion some of the Sundown subs are absolutely phenomenal drivers for daily use that sound good & will get down when asked to. Since you're going active are you making any changes to your front stage as well?

Out of sheer craziness I am making a few changes as well. Have some SB Acoustics tweets on the way, tested some Dayton RS28a tweets (up high on the dash) fell in love with some Seas H1212/H1499 hybrids up on the dash (but weren't for sale) and am tucking away my nickles & dimes for a pair of JBL W10GTI MKII subs.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I believe I will keep my front stage as is... the Massives have some ridiculous mid-bass that I have not heard in any other mids. The key with this setup is being able to control the level of the highs. While -3db on the supplied crossover did help, being able to further reduce it works better, along with being able to set the crossover at about 2.2kHz.

The SD10 is as you say, phenomenal. I thought the little Orphan 8 was incredible... and it is for an 8, but this SD10 is shallower and pounds even harder in about .3ft³. Truly amazing!


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Wow 2.2? I would have guessed that a higher crossover point & possibly underlapping the crossover would have been the ticket, but I am not too friendly with the volume control (or my lack of taste in music) either haha. In my previous setup when I was tuning manually I believe my crossovers were set @ 2 or 2.2k on the mids & 3k on the tweets with 12db slopes and everything rolled together real nice & had a real nice readout on an RTA, but that's subjective and differs wildly from car to car.

Glad to hear about the Sundown, Jacob does a very nice job designing subs that fit well into real world applications


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I am looking forward to the new drivers Jacob plans to introduce to the home theater world.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> I am looking forward to the new drivers Jacob plans to introduce to the home theater world.


Me too, but if I keep it up there will be a big sell off of audio equipment in So Cal after my wife strangles me in my sleep. She just about had a heart attack when she left on a Friday to visit her parents with a lil Dayton sub 100 in the living room & returned home Monday to see a 6.25 net enclosure with a single 15 in it haha. WAF was not high.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

lol... yeah my wife would have probably had a hissy fit if I had did that. She says take all those big loud boxes and silos out to the theater room.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Lol yeah, my theater room is the living room. When I asked for the third time how much space I was allowed to use for the sub the reply was (edited) just build it, I'm tired of hearing about it. So I built it LOL. She knew she was marrying an audio psychopath when she said "I do" and has actually come to really appreciate that sub & my car build. 

How easy is it to change crossover points etc in your setup? If its easy try a preset with underlaps on your points, and maybe give em a touch more gain on everything just to see if your tonality increases while using less eq. Just for giggles. I like to get other opinions on my tuning methods.... But mine normally include alcohol & 15 min eq sessions with 15 min breaks between & a different band & song each time. Tuned for real world music in real world conditions, if it fits into a nice rta graph then lady luck was on my side lol


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I haven't even done any eq'ing at this point. I had to send the control unit back to AudioControl for repair. It did not want to act right. My intentions were to use the RTA and make live adjustments with the control unit. It is aggravating to have to get out of the vehicle, let the back seat down, make the adjustments, then go back and look at the RTA and listen for changes. It is much easier if I can make real time changes and hear the differences as I make the changes. As soon as I get the control unit back I plan to do some more experimenting. It sounds pretty good on the high end right now, but I know I have a nasty 50Hz peak in the low end... I have seen it on the RTA already, but did not bother with it since the control unit malfunctioned.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

Sonnie said:


> I haven't even done any eq'ing at this point. I had to send the control unit back to AudioControl for repair. It did not want to act right. My intentions were to use the RTA and make live adjustments with the control unit. It is aggravating to have to get out of the vehicle, let the back seat down, make the adjustments, then go back and look at the RTA and listen for changes. It is much easier if I can make real time changes and hear the differences as I make the changes. As soon as I get the control unit back I plan to do some more experimenting. It sounds pretty good on the high end right now, but I know I have a nasty 50Hz peak in the low end... I have seen it on the RTA already, but did not bother with it since the control unit malfunctioned.



Yeah, having a bad control unit is no good & all the in/out in/out back & forth to make adjustments would definitely take all the fun out of the tuning process.


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## ls1_sounds (Dec 14, 2010)

Nice build! I found a cheap, used JL 12w3v3 for my car and put it in a sealed box, but haven't been terribly impressed with it. I was considering a Sundown to replace it, but read a lot about them being better suited for SPL and ported boxes. Nice to know they are good performers! My car system 2.0 may see one.


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## AndyInOC (Dec 15, 2010)

ls1_sounds said:


> Nice build! I found a cheap, used JL 12w3v3 for my car and put it in a sealed box, but haven't been terribly impressed with it. I was considering a Sundown to replace it, but read a lot about them being better suited for SPL and ported boxes. Nice to know they are good performers! My car system 2.0 may see one.


Since Sundown kind of started out / got popular in the spl world first there are a lot of people who still think that's what they build. I can say from my own experience that the SA series subs sound excellent and get loud, its a nice blend.


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