# One New Sub to Replace Two Old Ones?



## Philm63 (Jan 1, 2015)

It all started when I had this hair-brained idea of dragging the basement subwoofer upstairs and adding it to the one sub I already had in my living room HT. Hey, if one sounds this good, two must sound WAY better, right?

Well, as I've learned, that depends. If you did some digging you'd see I have a large open floor-plan living room - somewhere north of 5000 cu ft - adjoining rooms all over the place - tall ceilings, messy. Did I mention open?

My old subs are 10-inchers - one old down-firing Klipsch and one newer front-firing Energy - both 150 W. Once I added the second sub to the living room HT I did notice an increase in bass, but moving around the room it seemed the bass was all over the place - and not in a good way.

Soooo.... I started moving them around the room and taking measurements in REW and found one placement where the response was pretty even from one seat to the other, across all seats in the LR. Then I sat back and looked at where they ultimately landed - one on top of the other in the same place as the original sub! This is where I get the best response? Really?!!

Wondering if I could get away with just one sub, I tried switching one or the other off at any given time - this just yields a lower level of bass in the room - yeah; I could use just one sub and turn the level up and raise the trim in the AVR, but I'd rather keep the settings well below the point of distortion. Seems just one of these 10-inchers just isn't enough to energize this much space.

Ok, I can't change the geometry of my room - well; I can, but I'm not going to - but I can place my sub(s) where I get the best response from all listening positions, and that I have done. And it seems I get much better sound from the low-end with both subs. So now I'm faced with two co-located subs of different flavors. Would I be better off with one sub rather than these two somewhat mis-matched subs? Probably. But how to go about it?

Knowing one 10-inch 150 W sub just won't fill this space, I'm looking up the food chain a bit at 12- or even 15-inch subs, and at least double the power. And of course there's a budget. I haven't even purchased my new AVR yet and I'm already thinking of a new Sub? I gotta keep this one under control, and under the radar, if you know what I mean. "Honey, it's just one more speaker...":foottap:

So I'm looking at the SVS PB-2000 vs. the HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP. These guys come in at the same price point and they both have attractive specs. 12", 500 W, 17 Hz vs. 15" 600 W, 18 Hz. Both have nice curves up to and beyond 200 Hz, not that I'd take them up there. Both have nice low-end - below 20 Hz (My present subs start above 31 Hz) and both exceed twice my present power. :hsd:

Would one be better suited over the other for such a large open space? Are there alternatives within this price point that would adequately fill this space?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well, as you stated your current subs are fare to small for a space that size however let me warn you that even the noticeable upgrade to the SVS of HSU will still be not enough. With a space that size you would need two much larger subs to really pressurize it. Of course we all have budget restraints so your on the right track for sure getting even one SVS pb2000 will be a huge improvement over the two you have now


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## nwf477 (Feb 8, 2015)

Here is a thought keeping in mind the budget!! The 2 subs you mentioned are both very good and both hover around the 900 mark. I would suggest going the DIY route, and no you do not need special woodworking skills I have squat. I wanted good bass at a good price w/o going nuts. My suggestion would be a Stereo Integrity HT18D4 brand new including shipping 174. A behringer Inuke nu3000DSP 280 includes shipping. DIYsound group 4 cu.ft. flat pack 120 plus shipping. Add another 100 maybe in glue cables and connectors and paint pretty much 700 +, - all done. You have a good sized room so you decide to add another you already have the amp the second could be built for 300. I know I am doing it. The enclosure will go down into the 15hz range mine is a vented enclosure but the same speaker. If you go to the Data Bass charts you will see where is has been tested and the results of the test. Back to my woodworking skills I built mine using a cordless screw driver, Gorilla glue, wood screws it came out great. I have tested mine and it will hit the 15-16hz. Just thought I would mention it as an option.


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## Philm63 (Jan 1, 2015)

nwf477 said:


> Here is a thought keeping in mind the budget!! The 2 subs you mentioned are both very good and both hover around the 900 mark. I would suggest going the DIY route....


I do have some tools down in the basement, and I used to build cabinets back in the day. I'd thought of doing this not that long ago as I do love to build stuff. But when I started looking at what was readily available in the $700-$800 price range, I started thinking about the time it would take vs. just buying one and I quickly gave up on the idea of making my own. SVS and HSU et al have put years into their designs and I'm OK with supporting their research as opposed to developing my own.

I'm a bit OCD, see, and as such I'm more likely to spend more money on exotic materials and components and take months to build the box, and then perhaps weeks on the finish. Just seems a bit overwhelming to me when I think about it all. Still fun to think about, though... hmmm...


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

Playing devil's advocate, but with the recommendation that you get two subs for your space, the Hsu VTF-2 is on sale ($30 break) ... maybe two of those? I'm adding a sub for a smaller space, and considering the end game of a VTF-1 and VTF-2 in my space ... or a VTF-1 and their MDM mid-bass module (also on sale). 

A bit more change than your PB-2000 or VTF-3 price point, but not much. The VTF-2 has the low end of the VTF-3. 


// Posted from Tapatalk 3.2.1 for iOS - later versions are //


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## nwf477 (Feb 8, 2015)

Philm63 said:


> I do have some tools down in the basement, and I used to build cabinets back in the day. I'd thought of doing this not that long ago as I do love to build stuff. But when I started looking at what was readily available in the $700-$800 price range, I started thinking about the time it would take vs. just buying one and I quickly gave up on the idea of making my own. SVS and HSU et al have put years into their designs and I'm OK with supporting their research as opposed to developing my own.
> 
> I'm a bit OCD, see, and as such I'm more likely to spend more money on exotic materials and components and take months to build the box, and then perhaps weeks on the finish. Just seems a bit overwhelming to me when I think about it all. Still fun to think about, though... hmmm...


It took me 3-4 hours to build mine ( I had to wait for the glue to dry ). There are lots of options when it comes to finishing the box, I am clueless when it comes to applying wood laminate. I wanted it to be simple and sound good, I used Restore 4X its used for decks but it will hide the seams and if you apply some polyurethane it has a decent shine. If you think about it look up Marty Cube. It is simple and it does produce. I personally cannot see spending good money for something that I can build for less money and better quality but that is just me. Both of your choices are good another one to look at would be Reaction Audio. Before I built mine I almost bought one. I think it was the PS15X? for 799 it's spec.s were pretty awesome.


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Your situation is my oft repeated phrase brought to life; just having two subs doesn't instantly solve all your problems, it's having the right placement options for them that does. In your case co-location afforded the optimum results, so that being the case a single larger unit should indeed provide everything you seek.

The SVS and HSU you're looking at are definitely good candidates. Along with those you should investigate the PSA XS15se and XV15se. Both are worthy of consideration as well.


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## Philm63 (Jan 1, 2015)

How's about Rythmik? I see they use servo technology. Not sure what means for a subwoofer, but it sounds nifty. From what I remember the servo is just another type of "motor" that makes the cone move, but is it better than the traditional coils and magnets seen in most subs? Of just different? More efficient?


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

Actually it's not another "motor" that makes the cone move, but more like another coil that makes the cone _stop _moving. In short what the servo does is mitigate extraneous movements of the cone that weren't part of the original signal. It's subtractive, not additive.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I believe it monitors the difference between the input and output signals and adjusts the output to stay linear to the input. Sense that does make? I subtly hinted that an upgrade was in order, but I'm glad you asked the question. My collective space is larger than yours by almost 2000 cu ft. I can say from experience, that dual 12's will be the minimum to do justice. Jman as usual has good advice.


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

[topic drift, derp. my bad.]


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