# HDMI Handshake problems is it the Oppo or Onkyo?



## apilon

Good day everyone ,

I have an issue that i cannot resolve. 

Until recently i had an Onkyo TX-NR709 to which i connected my oppo BDP-93. My display device is an Optoma HD20 connected to the main ou of the Onkyo. It often had problem handshaking hdmi on startup either falling back to analog or having to resync multiple times before locking in the signal .

But the strangest problem was if i wanted to play cd on the oppo. In order to be able to lock in the hdmi signal i had to change the Onkyo output to main sub . Never could figure out why 

Anyhow yesterday i bought an Onkyo TX-NR818 and i am experiencing the sale issues when trying to listen to cd. If i leave the onkyo on main out it tries to lock in the hdmi signal but keeps retrying again and again without any success. If i shut down the Onkyo and power it up again it is able to lock in the hdmi but display no signal unless i switch back the main out to sub on the Onkyo 

So i am telling myself that if i am getting the same issues on 2 diffrent Onkyo model there must something i am not configuring properly 

If someone is experiening the same issues and was able to resolve it i would appreciate any help 

Thank you 


Alain


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## tonyvdb

Two things to check, first of all make sure that the Oppo is outputting Bitstream for audio and that you have tried different HDMI cables. Sometimes one HDMI cable from a manufacturer may not work where others will and cost seems to have little to no barring on if it will work or not particularly on long run HDMI cables.


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## apilon

tonyvdb said:


> Two things to check, first of all make sure that the Oppo is outputting Bitstream for audio and that you have tried different HDMI cables. Sometimes one HDMI cable from a manufacturer may not work where others will and cost seems to have little to no barring on if it will work or not particularly on long run HDMI cables.


I did change cables but they are from the same manufacturer...I will buy another one elsewhere and give it a try...... I never had this problem with my onkyo 706 ...........

Thanks for your help 

Alain


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## tonyvdb

How long is the HDMI cable that goes to the Projector?


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## hjones4841

If you do have a long HDMI cable to the projector, that can be the cause of erratic handshake issues. The Redmere cables from Monoprice work very well for runs over 25 feet or so. An in-line HDMI amplifier may work as well, but I would try the Redmere cable.


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## lcaillo

My first thought would be the same as above...the length of the run to a projector is often a source for problems. Certain combinations of source and destination products can be more of less sensitive, depending on the quality of the connections and the output and receiver ICs in each.


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## apilon

tonyvdb said:


> How long is the HDMI cable that goes to the Projector?


it is about 30 or 35 feet if i am not mistaken......


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## apilon

hjones4841 said:


> If you do have a long HDMI cable to the projector, that can be the cause of erratic handshake issues. The Redmere cables from Monoprice work very well for runs over 25 feet or so. An in-line HDMI amplifier may work as well, but I would try the Redmere cable.



Thanks for the tips but if memory serves me well aren't hdmi cables suppose to be good up to 50 feet in lenght??


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## lcaillo

The HDMI system, if everything is working properly, should be capable of up to 15 meters. There are varying degrees of working properly. Cables at this length get very inconsistent. Most cables are not actually tested for compliance with HDMI specs, nor are the transmitting and receiving circuits in most devices. Add to that any installation related issues such as ground loops or sharp bends in cables and you get unpredictability.

Keep the cable as short as possible, try different brands, make sure the system is properly installed and grounded, and keep the connections minimal and tight.


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## tonyvdb

My guess is your 35' cable might be the problem. Try a different brand (not monster) go to Monoprice or Blujeans and get one from them.


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## apilon

tonyvdb said:


> My guess is your 35' cable might be the problem. Try a different brand (not monster) go to Monoprice or Blujeans and get one from them.


Guess that is the last thing to try. Would a hdmi over cat5 xmitter/receiver is something reliable enough that could solve the issue??


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## apilon

UPDATE : After talking to Oppo here what i did. I disconnected the projector hdmi cable from the Onkyo main out. Switch the Oppo hdmi from hdmi 1 to 2 . Power up the onkyo and the Oppo and the hdmi signal locked in and i was able to play an audio cd.

Shut down everything switch back the Oppo hdmi from hdmi 2 to hdmi 1 repowered the Onkyo and Oppo same thing signal locked in was able to play audio cd.

Shut down again reconnected the projector hdmi to Onkyo main out and power up onkyo and oppo then no signal ......I disengaged the hdcp in the onkyo still no signal

So what i am missing here????


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## selden

The first fix to try is to disable "deep color" in the Oppo. It isn't used by any video source material available to consumers but requires that the video signal be transmitted at a bitrate that's high enough to cause problems for many marginal cables. Turning off deep color reduces the HDMI bitrate significantly.

It that isn't enough, try setting the Oppo to output a fixed 1080i (not 1080p) video signal so the bitrate is reduced even more.

Your symptoms indicate that the projector's cable is unable to carry high-bitrate video reliably. If you just unplugged the cable without powering everything down, the other equipment probably didn't renegotiate the HDMI handshaking correctly.

When you're playing a CD, the Oppo is also generating a video signal, whether or not you can see it. HDMI audio is transmitted on the same wires with the video, during the video signal's "vertical retrace" interval. The Oppo's CD status screen probably is being shown by default at 1080p60. but should work just as well at 1080i.


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## apilon

selden said:


> The first fix to try is to disable "deep color" in the Oppo. It isn't used by any video source material available to consumers but requires that the video signal be transmitted at a bitrate that's high enough to cause problems for many marginal cables. Turning off deep color reduces the HDMI bitrate significantly.
> 
> It that isn't enough, try setting the Oppo to output a fixed 1080i (not 1080p) video signal so the bitrate is reduced even more.
> 
> Your symptoms indicate that the projector's cable is unable to carry high-bitrate video reliably. If you just unplugged the cable without powering everything down, the other equipment probably didn't renegotiate the HDMI handshaking correctly.
> 
> When you're playing a CD, the Oppo is also generating a video signal, whether or not you can see it. HDMI audio is transmitted on the same wires with the video, during the video signal's "vertical retrace" interval. The Oppo's CD status screen probably is being shown by default at 1080p60. but should work just as well at 1080i.


Thanks for your answer but the problem does not lie with the video output... if i just power on the onkyo and the oppo just to listen to a cd the hdmi signal cannot lock in unless i disconnect the projector hdmi from the main out (even thought the projector is off) or switch the output of the onkyo to main sub 

once i do that and start listening to a cd if i reconnect the projector hdmi cable to the main out of the onkyo or switch back the output to main then the hdmi signal is lost again


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## selden

Did you actually try reducing the video bitrate?
That's the only way you can find out for sure whether or not it'll help.

Equivalently, did you try connecting the receiver to the projector with a short (6 ft or less) Category 2 High Speed cable? Or have you tried connecting the receiver to a TV with such a cable? 

If any of these suggestions work, the long cable is the most likely culprit.

HDMI interactions are highly complex and not intuitive. When HDMI signals are attenuated (by poor cables or transceivers) so they're distorted or close to the equipments' thresholds, their error symptoms become intermittent. Firmware bugs make it even worse. It doesn't help that many projectors (like mine  ) have to be sent to a repair center to get their firmware updated, making people very reluctant to do so.

If it's actually a hardware failure, determining exactly which device is broken may be difficult. Supposedly Onkyo's 2011 receivers tended to have unreliable HDMI boards, but I thought that problem had been fixed in more recent models.

p.s. 
With all the connections and disconnections you've been doing, I'd also start worrying that new problems have been introduced by damage to one or more of the connectors. Also, you must not ever plug and unplug HDMI cables while the equipment is powered on. Some of your comments suggest that you might have done so. HDMI circuits are very delicate and can be easily damaged by signals coming on in the wrong order.


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## apilon

selden said:


> Did you actually try reducing the video bitrate?
> That's the only way you can find out for sure whether or not it'll help.
> 
> Equivalently, did you try connecting the receiver to the projector with a short (6 ft or less) Category 2 High Speed cable? Or have you tried connecting the receiver to a TV with such a cable?
> 
> If any of these suggestions work, the long cable is the most likely culprit.
> 
> HDMI interactions are highly complex and not intuitive. When HDMI signals are attenuated (by poor cables or transceivers) so they're distorted or close to the equipments' thresholds, their error symptoms become intermittent. Firmware bugs make it even worse. It doesn't help that many projectors (like mine  ) have to be sent to a repair center to get their firmware updated, making people very reluctant to do so.
> 
> If it's actually a hardware failure, determining exactly which device is broken may be difficult. Supposedly Onkyo's 2011 receivers tended to have unreliable HDMI boards, but I thought that problem had been fixed in more recent models.
> 
> p.s.
> With all the connections and disconnections you've been doing, I'd also start worrying that new problems have been introduced by damage to one or more of the connectors. Also, you must not ever plug and unplug HDMI cables while the equipment is powered on. Some of your comments suggest that you might have done so. HDMI circuits are very delicate and can be easily damaged by signals coming on in the wrong order.


I,ll try your suggestion and come back with my findings. Althought it was not mentionned i did shut off the equipment before each connection attempt 

Prior to the TX-NR818 i had a TX-NR709 who had the same issues


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## hjones4841

apilon said:


> Thanks for the tips but if memory serves me well aren't hdmi cables suppose to be good up to 50 feet in lenght??


Perhaps in theory, but in practice, no. Not without an active amplifier or a HDMI switch with an amp built in. Or the Monoprice Redmere cables.


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## jefny

I had the very same problem in that my projector would also lose the signal at times or even not make it at all. I was using a Marantz SR5005 as my pre-amp and a Panasonic blu-ray player which ran a short cable to the Marantz and the long (35 foot) hdmi cable to the projector. I had purchased the Marantz from Outlaw and their technician told me that hdmi over 25 feet was a problem and I even found that information in the manual. He further told me that the actual hdmi run was a combination of the short cable (3 foot) from the player to the Marantz and the long 35 footer to the projector. Also the fact that the signal was going through the Marantz was a further issue.

The solution was to directly run the 35 foot cable from the player to the projector and feed the audio signal from the player to the Marantz and it worked. Fortunately my Panasonic player (model BD85K) had analog outs (8 short cables). I later upgraded to the Panasonic 310 which had 2 hdmi outs, one for videio and 1 for audio which meant only one cable to the pre-amp (Marantz).

The redmere sounds like a good solution as I was using a blue jeans 22 awg (very thick) hdmi cable which is not very flexible. I just purchased the redmere, which is thinner and more flexible (and cheaper than the blue jeans cable), and I am planning to replace the thicker cable.

jefny


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## apilon

jefny said:


> I had the very same problem in that my projector would also lose the signal at times or even not make it at all. I was using a Marantz SR5005 as my pre-amp and a Panasonic blu-ray player which ran a short cable to the Marantz and the long (35 foot) hdmi cable to the projector. I had purchased the Marantz from Outlaw and their technician told me that hdmi over 25 feet was a problem and I even found that information in the manual. He further told me that the actual hdmi run was a combination of the short cable (3 foot) from the player to the Marantz and the long 35 footer to the projector. Also the fact that the signal was going through the Marantz was a further issue.
> 
> The solution was to directly run the 35 foot cable from the player to the projector and feed the audio signal from the player to the Marantz and it worked. Fortunately my Panasonic player (model BD85K) had analog outs (8 short cables). I later upgraded to the Panasonic 310 which had 2 hdmi outs, one for videio and 1 for audio which meant only one cable to the pre-amp (Marantz).
> 
> The redmere sounds like a good solution as I was using a blue jeans 22 awg (very thick) hdmi cable which is not very flexible. I just purchased the redmere, which is thinner and more flexible (and cheaper than the blue jeans cable), and I am planning to replace the thicker cable.
> 
> jefny


If i connect the projo directly to the oppo my issues disappear but since i have other equipment like xbox and wii connected to the onkyo that is not an option just i am at this point to either try a hdmi booster or replace the 35 feet hdmi cable with a redmere version or hdmi over cat 5 and see if i have a winner


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## RTS100x5

My brothers 609 wouldnt output HDMI over 15 ft.... hence the monster cable he bought to go through the wall from above the fireplace to the equipment rack was useless... we tested this by using varying lengths of cable straight from the bluray player ..then the Onkyo...I finally convinced him to sell that receiver and go with something else ... now his tv above the fireplace has no cables hanging and everything is running smooth....:T


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## soundoff

hello,

Appologies as I'm not using an Oppo but i do have an Onkyo TX-NR709 video issue.

Got the receiver in Jan 2013 and it had the latest firmware at the time and the s/n checked out as ok.

I have a 20' hdmi cable to the tv which has worked since day 1. I do not understand how or why people are recommending to change out the cable that sounds just foolish because the system was functioning properly for months and now suddenly video stopped.

I cannot see the onkyo menu on the tv anymore so debugging is slow.

I'm thinking the hdmi board has an issue due to all the previously known and reported issues.

I do not consider a power up sequence to be any kind of viable solution, again day 1 had no problems.

The connection route is Directv dvr to Onkyo - out to tv. By bypassing the Onkyo completely the hdmi operates and I can watch tv. The blue ray dvd also does not have output from onkyo.

The problem first appeared as intermittent about 2 weeks ago. My dvr shows would not have video only sound. Now there is no video at all

asking for competent suggestions / options


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## jon96789

The symptoms points to a failing HDMI board... Call Onkyo for service...


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## soundoff

I unplugged all the equipment for 15 min. plugged everything back in and powered up in sequence TV, Onkyo, Direct HDdvr and got everything working again.


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## soundoff

jon96789 said:


> The symptoms points to a failing HDMI board... Call Onkyo for service...


Guess I'm going to make an attempt to get this Onkyo checked out.

For reasons unknown the drop out of video has started again and it is occuring more frequently when using the recorded shows on the DirecTV DVR.


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## dougc

I have a similar issue:
Onkyo 818
New 25ft Dayton high-speed cable
Vizeo 60" LED LCD

My problem is that when I activate Netflix or Amazon on the TV, the 818 reads only "analog" from the TV ARC - no sound, video only. If I switch the system off at the power conditioner master switch (complete shut-down), and restart only in a certain sequence, then the 818 will read HDMI and video and sound as normal. The startup sequence is: select TV/CD on the 818, power down components, complete system shutdown, power on main power switcher, TV on, Netflix selected, movie started and paused, 818 on, HDMI is now connected automatically. There has to be a better way. This is absolutely the only way it works so far after hours of different configurations and complete reboot of TV and 818 settings.

I'm curious if the afore mentioned cable would solve the issue if video is transferred but sound is not.


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## soundoff

been there - I folloowed the complete shutdown removal of power.

I always use the power up sequence.

My issue reveals itself after the system has been running fine for a while. EX: A show would be selected from the dvr and after it ends the next recorded show would be selected and then the image gets dropped. Extremely frustrating !!! Don't mind a pwr up sequence at start but to have to repeatedly shutdown, reboot system is in no way acceptable.


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## dougc

Hmm, after the complete shutdown/startup, mine only loses hdmi if I switch from TV over to Net, BD, CBL/sat, and then back to TV. Then it's back to Analog. We can watch Netflix all day, multiple shows, and it's stays on HDMI if I leave it on TV. 

I looked at the Redmere cables and they say they only work one direction, so that wouldn't work for ARC.


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## Dwight Angus

Completely frustrated with HDMI. I installed a new 40 ft Monoprice Redmere HDMI cable from JVC HD1 projector to Onkyo 5508 Preamp. Using Control 4 as Display menu I select Bluray I get a "NO HDMI SIGNAL" then it locks on and then ok for duration of movie without signal loss. I want to find out how to eliminate this temporary handshake issue. Thought Redmere would have solved this problem.


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## Dwight Angus

Got a response from OPPO as follows:

Is the video dropping out in the middle of the film, or is this just a message you are seeing between previews, menus, and studio logos? If the later, then this will be normal as the HDMI signal will be momentarily muted as the video signal changes input resolutions and frequencies. These will require a new handshake when they have completed. 

Based on this response looks like I am stuck with this response. Are there any workarounds I can use?


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## RTS100x5

Dwight Angus said:


> Got a response from OPPO as follows:
> 
> Is the video dropping out in the middle of the film, or is this just a message you are seeing between previews, menus, and studio logos? If the later, then this will be normal as the HDMI signal will be momentarily muted as the video signal changes input resolutions and frequencies. These will require a new handshake when they have completed.
> 
> Based on this response looks like I am stuck with this response. Are there any workarounds I can use?


Try OPPO hdmi straight to projector / use optical or 7.1 analog for audio .. this will tell you if its the Onkyo or the OPPO...


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## Dwight Angus

I will give this a try today. Cheers


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