# So I walk into a Hi-eND ht STORE YESTERDAY...



## superchad (Mar 7, 2008)

I was looking to demo some Projectors, I have a 720p LCD Panasonic model AE100 unit that I like but want more black level and 1080P I suppose if possible.
Anyway I walk up, ask to see Projectors and get asked if I know anything about them..."yes I have owned 1 for over a year in a dedicated music and HT supported by products you sell here (Rotel, BW, Classe, Lexicon and so on).......guy says "ok great what are you looking for and why upgrade?"
So stupid me I say, I think I want better contrast ratio.....I am at 6000.1 and think double or triple would be nice for deeper blacks, like an Epson 6100 I have had my eye on, from the reviews it looks like a winer or even the Panasonic model 2000 1080p if I recall.
OK so the guy says, "you own Panasonic and want Epson right? I say well I am not sure thats why I want to see some demo's.
Now he starts with saying I dont know what I am doing, Panasonic and Epson are for mass market buyers who dont know anything but the numbers they publish, contrast doesnt mean a thing, Lumens dont mean a thing and so on.
He show me a 540p Runco model as its the only one set up after superbowl rush, it looks ok but its grey in blacks and sorta good but lifeless....no pop or sizzle.
"Runco at $12000 or Mitsubishi Diamond model (I cant recall) is the way to go but you dont have enough cash to do it right" (as I foolishly noted I was in the sub $2000 market).
OK just wanted to vent, I bought the Rotel and BW speakers from these guys 4 years ago and saw nobody I remembered, as a past customer and current user of Projector I felt insulted by their treatment of me, they asked me questions as if they wanted me to walk into a trap so they could tell me I know nothing.
Anyway I walked out of there mad that I even went in, and even more mad I spent money there before, if I dont know anything thats fine but dont ask me what I am looking for and then slap me around for it......thats just rude.
Also insulting a purchase from Panasonic or Epson (or likely anything they dont sell) is silly...........................is it just me?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

"*Panasonic and Epson are for mass market buyers who dont know anything but the numbers they publish, contrast doesn't mean a thing, Lumens dont mean a thing and so on*"
That statement in its self says alot about the people you talked to. They obviously have no clue. The so called "mass market" is what is driving the sales of projectors and if it was not for us the prices would still be way out of reach for most of us.
I personally would writ a letter to the owner of the store informing him of your experience and the fact that you have bought stuff from them in the past.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Yeah, I don't go to many stores anymore for that reason. Once you learn, you start to spot the sales tactics.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> I personally would writ a letter to the owner of the store informing him of your experience and the fact that you have bought stuff from them in the past.


I agree, a letter of complaint is a good idea.

You can mention that you're a past client that were happy with the previous experience that you came back, but after this incident you'll take your business somewhere else and also will not refer new clients.

Hopefully the owner will understand and will offer you a good deal :yes:


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

It is pretty sad the way they treated you but I have found that if you go into a high end a/v store and talk about mass market stuff they basically blow you off. If I want good info I come here but if I want to buy a two meter cable that costs as much as my whole system then I go talk to the high end guy's. Don't get me wrong I go and look at the high end stuff but I don't even ask to talk to anybody because of what you ran into. Maybe when I win the lottery...........:spend:


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## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

These are commonly known sales techniques that will have good results with naive people, but cannot work with us shacksters


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

superchad said:


> Now he starts with saying I dont know what I am doing, Panasonic and Epson are for mass market buyers who dont know anything but the numbers they publish, contrast doesnt mean a thing, Lumens dont mean a thing and so on.
> Also insulting a purchase from Panasonic or Epson (or likely anything they dont sell) is silly...........................is it just me?


Translation: "We can't make a high enough margin on Panasonic or Epson to be bothered." Your concern about prior purchases may be well founded, you might have been able to do better for less. The only thing you can do now is to not be victimized twice.

*The only* advantage a brick an mortar can offer is to provide you with the ability to demo several choices, to try before you buy. If they aren't in a position to do that, why should you prop up their fancy storefront by paying them way more for comparable or even inferior products offered elsewhere, especially the web? They better look in their rear view mirror. The flaming heap called Circuit City is rapidly gaining on them.

Doug


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## superchad (Mar 7, 2008)

Well Doug Circuit City is going out of business probably done by this month so maybe you mean Best Buy


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## Keith from Canada (Jan 30, 2008)

superchad said:


> Now he starts with saying I dont know what I am doing, Panasonic and Epson are for mass market buyers who dont know anything but the numbers they publish, contrast doesnt mean a thing, Lumens dont mean a thing and so on.


O.K., I'm probably in the minority around here but what he said isn't entirely untrue. He probably should have been better more diplomatic about it but his point about CR's and lumens isn't totally off the mark. Most manufacturers now employ a dynamic iris that artificially boosts CR ratings and 2000 lumens in a properly set-up, light-controlled theater is excessive given that once properly calibrated, it won't output 1/3 of it's max lumen output. My projector outputs 1600 lumens and it's calibrated to output around 600 in theater mode. My "sports" mode is calibrated to around 900 lumens and it is bright enough give a sharp, crisp image with room lights on - kids movies and Superbowl/Hockey parties. When I up the bulb into the "standard" mode, it is way, way too bright.

With regards to the impact of the dynamic iris on CR, Art from Projectorreviews.com sums it up like this:

_"In the good old days (what?), contrast stats were a good indication of black level performance, but with the advent of dynamic irises, contrast numbers don't tell you much at all. All we keep getting are higher and higher numbers, and in some cases they correlate to moderately better black levels in other cases, not so much." _

Now, pushing you to over-priced Runco and other 'high-end' projectors was just silly. There are plenty of 'mass-market' projectors that are better options for far, far, far less money.


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