# signal processor (or something like that)



## brogh (Feb 24, 2011)

Hello to all  First post here 

I'm having a little bit of trouble in finding out a... "thing" Lol that helps me to achieve a particular 5.1 installation.

Where i work we have a really big room 30 x 30 ft height is something like 20 ft, where they are asking me to set up a 5.1 system.
I'm looking almost in the pro field for what's concerning speakers as i need some "high" wattage to fill the room with sound.
I'll try to keep it short, the source would be a blu-ray player, the problem is that there are big distances between one and the other speaker so i'm almost sure that i have to setup some delays to get the sound right.
The idea is using all pro-active speakers with xlr connection to avoid signal degradation over the long distance the cable have to travel through, there are also some electrical lines passing by so XLR is almost a needed choiche.

Actually we have a bluray player with separated outputs, but they are (obviously) all rca's, we've used it in a really smaller room with attached to a yamaha sinto-amp which has done the job that it was intended for really smoothly. This sinto amp is also only 50 w per channel which is really not enought power to handle the bigger room.
Also the delay's are set up in meters and the maximum distance that you can setup from listening point is 3 meters ( 10 ft ca. ).

What i was thinking was to:

take out the separate signals from the dvd/bluray/whatever source i have and feed it through a signal processor via separated out/in's or coaxial. (about the coax thing i think i'll need a dolby digital or dts enabled processor) this processor has to do 2 things mainly

- set up some eq
- set up some delays

then from the signal processor i want to go to the speakers directly with xlr cables, so i'll need xlr outputs and rca or coax input.

i've found some products (like this one here dynacord DSP 260 ) but they're all stereo only products. Do you guys know any ""cheap"" product that allows me to do that in one unit, or will i need to buy 3 of these units and manage the speakers separately ?

We don't have a big budget to spend on this and a good part will go away with the active speakers and the sub, these unit's do not come cheap.

I'm open to solutions 

Any idea ?

Thanks to all very much

Have a good day !


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

I would suggest a Surround Sound Preamp/Processor with balanced outputs. Current models from the major brands are things like the Marantz AV7701 or Integra DHC 60.5. These are not inexpensive however. They run from 1500 - 2000 but are by far the most elegant solution to your problem. By far. 

You could look for something used on Audiogon to find an older model that lacks HDMI switching or the new high resolution surround formats.

One of these units may make sense.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/pr...2-cinema-prepro-2013-10-12-home-theater-07624

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/pr...llent-condition-2013-10-15-home-theater-24073

The newest units will have the most flexible EQ most likely. All will have bass management, and almost all will have time delay.

The time delay you mentioned for speaker distance does not need to be absolute. The differentials need to be consistent.
If you have a range of 0-10ft in your processor (this is tiny, my processor has a 30' range) you can still make it work.
In a 30' room lets pretend your fronts are 16' away and the sides are 8' away with the rears at 14'.
You need to delay the sides 8' more than the fronts and the rears 2' more then the fronts.
You can set the fronts at 10', the rears at 8',and the sides at 2'. The processor will take care of it. 

If the processor has an auto EQ feature I would not suggest it for a room that size. If your concern is not time alignment between speakers, but rather time alignment for syncing video and audio, then that will be in a different section of the receiver and is available on most newer processors. However, video processing is pretty slow compared to audio, so it's typically there to slow the audio down.

It sounds like you are planning on using powered PA speakers. I'd suggest looking to cinema equipment if your seating distance is over 20'.
For small commercial cinema speakers I'd look to QSC's SC-2150's or the JBL 3722N or 4722N. These are both passive and need power, but are pretty efficient.


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## WooferHound (Dec 8, 2010)

You could come out of the RCA jacks through some adapter cables to 1/4 inch plugs and go through 6 direct boxes to convert to an XLR Balanced output.
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Rapco-H...o-Z-Transformer-Direct-Box-485909-i1534355.gc
I personally don't think you need to worry about the delays in such a large theater sized room as that. Won't your listeners be sitting all over the room, which listener would you adjust the delay for?


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

If you use a direct box, be sure it is for a line level signal and not an instrument signal.

This should work, but you'd have no volume control, EQ, time alignment, bass management, etc.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/LLS8


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Lots of potential issues here, starting with:



brogh said:


> Where i work we have a really big room 30 x 30 ft height is something like 20 ft, where they are asking me to set up a 5.1 system.
> 
> *We don't have a big budget to spend on this*


It would be nice to know what the budget is. You have a room that’s perhaps half the size of a _movie theater_. You aren’t going to be able to “fill the room with sound” on the cheap if it’s that big.




> The idea is using all pro-active speakers with xlr connection to avoid signal degradation over the long distance the cable have to travel through, there are also some electrical lines passing by so XLR is almost a needed choiche.


I’ve been out of the business for a few years, but as far as I know active speakers are typically used for temporary systems. Not to mention the hassle of getting power to each speaker location. If this is going to be a permanent installation, there’s no good reason not to use passive speakers and outboard amplifiers. There is no degradation penalty with long speaker cables, at least not with the lengths you'd be dealing with. Amplifier outputs are a high-level signal and as such are pretty much impervious to electrical interference. You’d have to physically strap the speaker cable to the electrical line to get any appreciable interference.

As others have noted, you can get all the processing you need (delays, crossovers, equalization) with a decent-quality home theater receiver. The real money will come with the amplification you’ll need, as well as speakers that can handle it. If the amps are set up in the same rack as the processor and blu-ray player, you can use RCA connections, which will save the expense of a processor with balanced outputs.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## brogh (Feb 24, 2011)

Hello again and thanks to all for the suggestions and the tips.

I'll try to explain a little bit better about the room and the things i'll need to achieve.
i'm really sorry that i can not post pics as my company does not allow me at the moment to do this but...
What i can tell you is that my company works in the CGI/VFX/Cinema field we have a mix/movie theater in a treated room, with JBL cinema series speakers the models (AFAIK) are 3678, 3635, 8320, powered by 3 crown amps, and the source is a mac pro/protools avid hardware, this is THE room intended for this use

This room that i have to set up is not intended to be a movie theater, this room has a complete different use, but in it we occasionally do some presentations, projections of our work, and variuos other stuff, my boss asked me to get a good but on "the budget" audio system for it, as actually we are doing this with some portable speakers in stereo configuration and they are not sufficent to do the job.
Long story short ... " hey man, find me out a way to """fill the room""" with good sound :rofl:, which does not mean that i need to have PA or Cinema SPL, but he wants a good sounding system (not perfect), able to achieve some good SPL levels.

Electrical Power in this room is in no way a problem we're talking about 50/100 KW power availability.
He just does not want to spend all the money spent for the other room, as i said, it has a different usage mainly.

What i was looking at yesterday was the JBL Eon system which should be able to do the trick, I think the EON 510 and the EON 518S should be way good for what we need to do.
These speakers are also portable and we will eventually be able to use them for other things if needed.

The speakers can not sit on the ground (except the sub) or hang on the wall they have to be ceiling mounted and i also need to find out a way to pull them up to the ceiling when not needed, and pull them down to a good height when we do these projections and the other stuff. (i also need suggestions on this) actually i'm looking for a DIY approach..

Talking about budget, he usually does not give me one, he just asks for solutions, that opens a lot of options, but i really think that he doesn't want to go with great numbers.

Maybe this can help a little bit better to understand the situation 

*at - eclipse911t*

i'll need to give a deeper look to the links you've posted, but i forgot to say that i'm based in italy, so i'm dealing with 220 V the krell you linked should be way good to do the job (on first impression), i gave a look at krell's website the st 1200 would be fabolous, but it's waaaaaaaaay out of the intended budget my boss has in mind. 

*at - WooferHound*


> I personally don't think you need to worry about the delays in such a large theater sized room as that. Won't your listeners be sitting all over the room, which listener would you adjust the delay for?


This is true in fact, but i really did not think about it, do you think i can "ignore" this delay's thing ? 

*at - WooferHound & eclipse911t*

Oh my i really didn't think about using DI boxes, maybe it's the cheapest solution.

*at - Wayne*

all that You say is true, after the suggestion of the DI boxes which i really didn't think about, maybe i'll need just a good hi fi pre to do the trick, altough the linked krell should be ok i think, if i find it here 

I just want to say thanks to all for the suggestions, hope you have more to come about some pre or processor model's (on the budget) that can help me out, i think we can reach the 1000 $ max price for this item, if less better !

Thanks to all again !
Have a good day !


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I think your going to need to find passive speakers that are efficient as I agree that Active speakers is not the best way to go.
With a $1000 budget Most receivers in that range have pre outs so adding external amps in not an issue if the ones inside the receiver are not enough. One like this Onkyo 929 would work.
Speakers like these PA type speakers that are between 92-97db efficient is what your looking for.


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## WooferHound (Dec 8, 2010)

brogh said:


> *at - WooferHound*
> This is true in fact, but i really did not think about it, do you think i can "ignore" this delay's thing ?


If you don't have any delays, the Sweet Spot will be in the center, equal distance from all the speakers

I will also put in my vote for using a rack of amps and 12ga speaker wire to passive speakers


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

wow TMI :huh:

This should fit the bill if Im reading you right 

http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-deq2496-ultracurve-pro-digital-eq-rta--248-661


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