# Audio Experiments Usually Paid Off



## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

I have tried some of the so called crazy things from audio manufacturers or reviewers. After being quite skeptical about almost anything that didn't have at least a logical theory that could account for some audible changes, I usually tried inexpensive experiments and for the most part heard something different and mostly better in sound quality.

Keep an open mind and strip the marketing hype away then there is usually something to try and improve the sound and listening enjoyment.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

AVoldMan said:


> I have tried some of the so called crazy things from audio manufacturers or reviewers. After being quite skeptical about almost anything that didn't have at least a logical theory that could account for some audible changes, I usually tried inexpensive experiments and for the most part heard something different and mostly better in sound quality.
> 
> Keep an open mind and strip the marketing hype away then there is usually something to try and improve the sound and listening enjoyment.


Actually when you keep an open mind and strip all the marketing hype away there is usually nothing that improves the sound other than improving the acoustics of the listening room or buying better speakers.


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

chashint said:


> Actually when you keep an open mind and strip all the marketing hype away there is usually nothing that improves the sound other than improving the acoustics of the listening room or buying better speakers.


I agree the room itself does have a big effect on the overall sound. But the speaker placement within the room WRT reflecting surfaces and boundary effects for a subwoofer are quite significant. 

As far as "esoteric" (or magic) products there seems to be a grain of truth to some of the claims. For example speaker wire or cable. I'll bet that you don't use any of the wire the a speaker or AV receiver manufacturer packs with their products. But it's just Ohm's Law, should work just fine - right. Well, I'm not saying that I have tried everything but I had tried smaller gauge (bigger diameter) zip wire, twisted my own, tried AudioQuest ready made and 4 conductor cable wired in a "star" pattern. Each experiment or change did result in a change and an improvement of the sound sometimes large enough for my wife to notice from another room (while not really listening) and asking "Did you do something?"

So when it's only speakers and room - they may be large contributers but not the only ones. In fact the more tweaked my modest system becomes there seems to be more things that can be tried and heard - rather easily.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

AVoldMan said:


> Well, I'm not saying that I have tried everything but I had tried smaller gauge (bigger diameter) zip wire, twisted my own, tried AudioQuest ready made and 4 conductor cable wired in a "star" pattern.


I went through a period many years ago of making up and trying all these different types of interconnects..Making up fancy twisted combinations of wires and using wires so fine that if you coughed they'd break!! Using different multiples and types of shield materials and coverings and so on..

I sometimes thought I could hear a difference but more often than not, thought it was just my imagination..
the end result was that I finished up buying some reasonably priced interconnects with good quality connectors..and haven't changed them since!


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

Prof. said:


> ... the end result was that I finished up buying some reasonably priced interconnects with good quality connectors..and haven't changed them since!


I think I've reached that same balanced state now. If it is something I can easily, quickly and/or cheaply try I'll try it! It's a learning process and nothing wrong with that!!!


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## jaymz (Feb 8, 2011)

I want to hear from the clowns who came up with the speaker-cable-raising-blocks that I see advertised in Audiophile Mag, or from the suckers who bought them and claim better sound!

Jim


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

jaymz said:


> ...who came up with the speaker-cable-raising-blocks that I see advertised...


Actually, I have wanted to try getting my speaker cables off the floor by either using some scrap 2"X4" blocks or suspending them with thread. It seems silly at first, but depending on the material of the floor and speaker cable there is always a leakage current or/and capacitive coupling effects. Am I saying there is going to be an audible difference - IDK. Could be a fairly easy thing to try!

I haven't done it yet, but some day! Has anyone played with this idea?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

jaymz said:


> I want to hear from the clowns who came up with the speaker-cable-raising-blocks that I see advertised in Audiophile Mag, or from the suckers who bought them and claim better sound!


:rofl: Yeah..that was a ripper!
Logic says that it's not going to make the slightest bit of difference!!


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## jaymz (Feb 8, 2011)

AVoldMan said:


> Actually, I have wanted to try getting my speaker cables off the floor by either using some scrap 2"X4" blocks or suspending them with thread. It seems silly at first, but depending on the material of the floor and speaker cable there is always a leakage current or/and capacitive coupling effects. Am I saying there is going to be an audible difference - IDK. Could be a fairly easy thing to try!
> 
> I haven't done it yet, but some day! Has anyone played with this idea?


I hate to disappoint you, but using standard woods like pine or fir won't produce any improvements. They must be some exotic wood like Bubinga or Zebrawood, or perhaps carbon fiber. And also, standard dimensional lumber (2" X 4") won't work either. They must be metric. Of course, suspending the cables off the floor with helium-filled balloons may be worth a try.

Jim


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

If I didn't know better, I would think you guys are making fun of this idea.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

AVoldMan said:


> If I didn't know better, I would think you guys are making fun of this idea.


The entire premise of the thread is a bit of a troll, so yes it is fair to say some funnin' is going to ensue.


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

Well, the limited number of things that I have tried, I'm glad I did. Like I said the results far out weighed the cost. Most of the time it is just interesting to try!


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

What have you tried and what did you hear as a result ?


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

chashint said:


> What have you tried and what did you hear as a result ?


Most of my younger years I played around with improving my stereo system. Mainly because that was all that existed - never touched quad, just to many formats and no real program material. But back to a list of what I can remember:

1) Sonex acoustic room treatment mounted in corners and first reflection points. Cleaned up the sound stage and added the original depth to well recorded CDs.

2) Added a dedicated and direct AC power line for stereo equipment only. Bass seemed more solid and quieter.

3) Added sand filled ziplock bags under and on CD player to dampen vibrations from within and outside the player. Overall cleaner and tighter sound. More natural voices and less sizzle.

4) Add external power supply capacitance to external (wall wart) DC Power supply for a seperate D/A converter box. Quieter and cleaner sound with more detail.

5) Tried twisting my own speaker wire but replaced it with some manufactured wire from Audio Quest. The manufactured cable was smoother.

6) Placed additional internal enclosure supports in an Epicure speaker to reduce resonances. Bass was more solid and less buzzy.

7) Added home made felt surrounds around all my tweeters to reduce enclosure diffraction effects. A smoother more detailed high end resulted. Much less listening fatigue and better imaging.

I'm sure there were others but that what I can recall without much effort.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

All of those are what I call legitimate tweaks ( except maybe the twisted speaker wires) and give a worthwhile improvement..
I also tried the felt strip tweeter surrounds on my previous speakers and it did seem to give similar results..
Even with my current speakers I have stuffed cotton balls into the slotted ports which has produced a big improvement to the clarity in the mid to top end..
There are a lot of tweaks that are beneficial..


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

Prof. said:


> All of those are what I call legitimate tweaks ( except maybe the twisted speaker wires) and give a worthwhile improvement..
> 
> ... with my current speakers I have stuffed cotton balls into the slotted ports which has produced a big improvement to the clarity in the mid to top end.


The twisted pair experiment was a long time ago (maybe 30 years ago). I could not find any larger cable at the time. So I tried rolling my own. I initially liked it better than 16 gauge zip cord cable but later on found that Monster Cable came out with some reasonably priced cable and it sounded cleaner in the top end. So out with the old and in with the newer. Later, repalced that with some Audio Quest cables that were even better. 

More recently, I did discover during installing my HTS that a "star" wired cable sounded pretty good for a very reasonble price. I used Monster Cable and MonoPrice products. They have a 4 conductor cable (typically used for two speakers - in walls). Basically, you wire both red to red and black to black for each speaker. It results in a smoother, silky sound with a lower total resistance.

In your tweak, the cotton balls go into the enclosure port or between the cone and speaker cage within the enclosure. If the external port is stuffed doesn't it change the port tuning and the bass characteristics?


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I think there are advantages to having twisted pair wiring inside the speaker, most notably to help keep the wires from vibrating or rubbing on other components. Not sold on the claimed audio advantages of preventing crosstalk, symmetrical exposure to radiated noises etc.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

AVoldMan said:


> In your tweak, the cotton balls go into the enclosure port or between the cone and speaker cage within the enclosure. If the external port is stuffed doesn't it change the port tuning and the bass characteristics?


The Behringer Monitors have 2 slots for the ports, either side of the tweeter..I found (as have others) that if you stuff the ports with cotton balls, it eliminates some harshness in the upper mid to top end range..
It does reduce the very lower frequencies slightly, but the sub handles most of those frequencies anyway..
The overall result is a very smooth sound through the whole range..:T


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## b bos37 (May 30, 2011)

After experimenting with every thing available, the two most top in my list is pulling a 6 mm power cable from the incoming lines and installing proper acoustics.


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

Prof. said:


> The Behringer Monitors have 2 slots for the ports, either side of the tweeter..I found (as have others) that if you stuff the ports with cotton balls, it eliminates some harshness in the upper mid to top end range..
> It does reduce the very lower frequencies slightly, but the sub handles most of those frequencies anyway..
> The overall result is a very smooth sound through the whole range..:T


I wonder if the cotton in the two slots is really controlling the diffraction effects of the center mounted tweeter. If so you might try a felt sheet covering the top front of the speaker (edge to edge) and just cut a hole for the tweeter. This may not block the air flow through the ports but give a smooth surface around the tweeter to prevent diffraction effects. This would maybe improve the low end while still giving you a smoother and cleaner top end.

I have a similar felt sheet on all of my bookcase speakers and it seems to improve the top end sound. In fact, I cover the whole front baffle and cut out holes for both the tweeter and small woofer cones. For >$0.50 per speaker it may be worth a try.


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## Theresa (Aug 23, 2010)

AVoldMan said:


> If I didn't know better, I would think you guys are making fun of this idea.


DUH?! I went through a "tweak" stage too. Perhaps its magic, I have some eco-feminist, neo-pagan leanings. I really do! But magic works on the mind/spirit not on the physical, except perhaps at the sub-atomic level. I am a skeptic about cables and wires and even amplifier sound. How something sounds is subject to the laws of physics. If someone wants to prove me wrong then prove it with measurements, not by what you think you heard.


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

Theresa said:


> ... But magic works on the mind/spirit not on the physical, except perhaps at the sub-atomic level. I am a skeptic about cables and wires and even amplifier sound. How something sounds is subject to the laws of physics. If someone wants to prove me wrong then prove it with measurements, not by what you think you heard.


If I recall my history - everything once revolved around the earth until someone had a different theory. Later, measured data backed it up. Once, the whole universe was the fixed size of our Milky Way Galaxy until theories and later data said things were alot bigger and getting bigger faster even today. All these things were absolutes that failed the reality of the situation. The more we know, the more we understand that we know very little.

Usually the complications of any problem being solved forces design compromises based on limitations of knowledge and resources. This prevents knowing what is perfect or building a perfect product.

So tweaks can work! Why? Sometimes for known or unknown reasons, that is the challenge - to try and understand!


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

AVoldMan said:


> I wonder if the cotton in the two slots is really controlling the diffraction effects of the center mounted tweeter. If so you might try a felt sheet covering the top front of the speaker (edge to edge) and just cut a hole for the tweeter. This may not block the air flow through the ports but give a smooth surface around the tweeter to prevent diffraction effects. This would maybe improve the low end while still giving you a smoother and cleaner top end.
> 
> I have a similar felt sheet on all of my bookcase speakers and it seems to improve the top end sound. In fact, I cover the whole front baffle and cut out holes for both the tweeter and small woofer cones. For >$0.50 per speaker it may be worth a try.


That sounds like a good idea..The felt might just provide enough dampening in the ports and still maintain the lower frequencies, and at the same time reduce any diffraction effects..
Thanks for that..I'll give it a try..:T


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

AVoldMan said:


> If I recall my history - everything once revolved around the earth until someone had a different theory. Later, measured data backed it up. Once, the whole universe was the fixed size of our Milky Way Galaxy until theories and later data said things were alot bigger and getting bigger faster even today. All these things were absolutes that failed the reality of the situation. The more we know, the more we understand that we know very little.
> 
> Usually the complications of any problem being solved forces design compromises based on limitations of knowledge and resources. This prevents knowing what is perfect or building a perfect product.
> 
> So tweaks can work! Why? Sometimes for known or unknown reasons, that is the challenge - to try and understand!


:rolleyesno:

People want to think there's more going on - it's called superstition. Unlike your analogy, there is no sound theory or lack of knowledge at play with most of the concepts being discussed here. It's the year 2011. I think we know how copper conducts electricity. But anyways I'm not saying anything past that. 

What you describe is not scientific limitations, but a belief in the paranormal. You're free to your beliefs but they can not be substantiated now, or ever in the future in the next 400 years, just like they've never been "proven" since the beginning of time. Everyone has a right to their beliefs but they should be separated from the concept "that science just isn't there yet".


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## AVoldMan (May 15, 2011)

GranteedEV said:


> ... I think we know how copper conducts electricity. But anyways I'm not saying anything past that.
> 
> ... the concept "that science just isn't there yet".


The point I was making was that when there are only prior known absolutes, then there is no change, no experimentation no chance that anything can be improved. Secondly, understanding the reason for changes can be difficult.

For instance speaker cable. The simplest model is R = resistance. However, there are distributed capacitances and inductances that you could give equivalent C and L values. There are materials and construction processes. So for a simple wire there seems to be a whole lot of variables.

If you can hear a difference then there is a difference. What it is and whether it is better are the questions?


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