# Is the format war really about to be over and if so, what are you going to do?



## Sonnie

> *Paramount in HD DVD blow*
> 
> By Matthew Garrahan and Mariko Sanchanta in Las Vegas
> 
> Published: January 8 2008 02:49 in the Financial Times
> 
> Paramount is poised to drop its support of HD DVD after Warner Brothers’ recent backing of Sony’s Blu-ray technology, in a move that will sound the death knell of HD DVD and bring the home entertainment format war to a definitive end.
> 
> Paramount and DreamWorks Animation, which makes the Shrek films, came out in support of HD DVD last summer, joining General Electric’s Universal Studios as the main backers of the Toshiba format.
> 
> However, Paramount, which is owned by Viacom, is understood to have a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp that would allow it to switch sides in the event of Warner Bros backing Blu-ray, according to people familiar with the situation.
> 
> Paramount is set to have a bumper 2008 with several likely blockbusters, including the latest instalment in the Indiana Jones franchise.
> 
> Paramount joining the Blu-ray camp would leave HD DVD likely to suffer the same fate as Sony’s now obsolete Betamax video technology, which lost out to VHS in a similar format war in the 1980s.
> 
> Warners decision last week to throw its weight behind Blu-ray saw it join Walt Disney, 20th Century Fox and Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer as backers of the Sony format.
> 
> The Warners move gives Blu-ray about 70 per cent of Hollywood’s output, although the format’s grip on film content will increase further when Paramount comes aboard.
> 
> It is unclear whether DreamWorks Animation has the same get-out clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp.
> 
> However, Paramount and DreamWorks have a close relationship, with Paramount distributing DreamWorks Animation films. The two companies also signed their HD DVD contracts at the same time. Meanwhile, Universal has declined to comment on its next-generation DVD plans since the Warners move.
> 
> Sir Howard Stringer, chief executive of Sony, on Monday held out an olive branch, saying the company would be “open to dialogue” with the HD DVD camp to “grow the market”. The move came as new figures showed that Blu-ray had opened up a decisive lead over the rival home entertainment format.
> 
> Sir Howard said: “We are not going to push people around. We’ll talk to anyone ... we have a lot of work to do to grow the market. We’ll be systematic and open to dialogue at all times.”
> 
> He added that Sony still had “a lot of work” to do to get Blu-ray “widely accepted” among American consumers.
> 
> “With Warner’s support you saw billboards going up in different places and you saw television commercials getting more and more sophisticated and that’s what we’ll continue doing,” said Sir Howard.





> From Times Online
> 
> January 8, 2008
> 
> *Blu-Ray takes inside edge in war with HD-DVD*
> 
> Up to 20 firms backing HD-DVD consider defection after Warner opted for Blu-Ray and Paramount is poised to follow
> 
> Leo Lewis, Asia Business Correspondent
> 
> The sprawling consortium of technology and media companies assembled to promote the HD-DVD format of next-generation high definition discs faces a spate of defections to the rival Blu-Ray Disc consortium.
> 
> As many as 20 companies currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group could be preparing to remove their names from the alliance’s 130-strong membership list, The Times has learned.
> 
> Paramount yesterday emerged as the latest major Hollywood studio poised to switch allegiances.
> 
> Despite the huge armies of technology companies ranged against each other in the format showdown, Paramount has turned out to be a pivotal figure. Its decision in August to give exclusive backing to HD-DVD was seen as a potentially devastating blow to the prospects of Blu-Ray, and to the strategy of Sony’s president, Sir Howard Stringer.
> 
> Sir Howard consistently argued, though, that the Playstation3 games console, which includes a Blu-Ray disc player, would put the format in people’s living rooms around the world more quickly than HD-DVD players would be adopted by consumers. But Paramount, like other members of the HD-DVD group such as Fujitsu, Lenovo and Kenwood, has hedged its bets. It offered exclusivity in August on the basis that it could reverse the decision should Warner Bros switch to Blu-Ray.
> 
> The threatened exodus from the HD-DVD format follows last week’s decision by Warner Bros to back the rival Blu-Ray Disc format, whose main technology backers include Sony, Apple and Dell.
> 
> One Tokyo-based analyst said that the defections could represent the final nails in the coffin of Toshiba’s HD-DVD standard after a bitterly-fought “format war” that has run for a little over one year.
> 
> Eiichi Katayama, of Nomura Securities, said that the battle between the formats, which display films and video games more sharply in an era of ever-growing television screen sizes, was now “entering its final phase”.
> 
> Pony Canyon, a major Japanese music, animation and film studio and part of the giant Fuji Television media empire, said that although it was currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group, the decisions of US studios meant it would “choose Blu-Ray in the end”.
> 
> Several other Japanese firms – including content producers and electronics component makers – said that their support of HD DVD was “under review” and that they knew of many others in the same position. Others, who admitted that they had previously been waiting for “clear market momentum”, said that it had now probably arrived.
> 
> Backers of HD-DVD point to the relative ease of producing the discs, and the lower cost of building machines capable of reading them. Unlike previous format wars, particularly the notorious Betamax v VHS skirmish in the 1980s, the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD has effectively been decided in boardrooms, rather than electronics showrooms. The decisions of the major studios have come well before those of customers, who have generally held back from picking one format for fear of backing a loser.
> 
> Facing a future with only Universal Pictures as its major Hollywood supporter, Toshiba and HD-DVD, said analysts at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, could quickly find itself isolated. But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.



I kept thinking with the money invested and what could end up costing businesses and consumers dearly, somehow all involved would come to their senses and work things out... that somehow both formats could survive. However, my thinking is always subject to change... and if these reports are in fact accurate, it really does look like the format war is about to be over. 

I suppose all we can hope for now is that the consumers that lose out financially will somehow be compensated and not end up getting gouged by the powers to be (Sony). Those 10's of thousands of consumers who rushed out and bought HD-DVD players at x-mas time are going to have a poor attitude towards hi-def in general. It may be a long time before anyone ever gets them to invest in another HD player, especially when we will not likely see anymore HD players under $200 for a while to come and movie prices will probably ease back up. 

Now I'm even on the fence as to whether to cancel my order on the Samsung BD-UP5000 dual format player and try to snag a 1400 before those prices go back up. People just thought things were confusing... I'm confused now for sure... :dumbcrazy:


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## muzz

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

First off, I will say up front that I am an HD DVD supporter, I do not support Sony, or the BD camp in any way, because since day 1 they have been gouging the general public.

Sony has been doing that for years, and has always tried to build a monopoly.

I tend to spend much more time and $ on stuff like this than Joe Public does, so when I jumped on HD DVD, it was because the format seemed to make more sense to everyone involved.
The customer got great entertainment for the Dollar, as good as BD.

The Price it costs to first buy all new Eqpt to burn BD, for the masses, and the discs themselves are more expensive for the studios, giving me reason to think that they would prefer to use HD DVD instead.. this all go's back to my first point about the cash, if it cost's more to produce, what are the chances that it'll cost less to the consumer? Thanks to HD DVD, BD prices are the same, and lower than the "Combo's" which I've always detested.

Manufacturers of the Boutique brands sided with Sony, probably because they can gouge more outta your pockets, this is partly because Sony had more studio backing, so Toshiba went to cheaper to buy hardware. From what I understand, it costs more $ to produce a BD Player, maybe I'm mistaken.

IMO the masses got the shaft here.

I've seen some fairly well known folks state that they are glad that FINALLY one format won, so we can move on, to help Joe Public decide and push HDM.... what is he gonna decide, that BD is stupidly expensive, thats what... stalling the HD market even longer.

I don't see this as a good thing for the consumer AT ALL, if it wasn't for HD DVD, Sony would probably still be using Mpeg2, on profile 1.0, with prices still as stupidly expensive as when they first came out.

Average price is STILL way to high for the general public to care, and with no competition folks seem to think that Sony and the Cronies will lower prices...

I'll believe it when I see it..

As far as " Sir" Howard Stringer goes-
Yeah, sure Howie, you've always been open to dialogue...and I'm a Mutli-Billionaire !!!

Grow the Market? What?

Who calls themselves "Sir" anyways... Royalty that's who...
Bah

Sad situation really.


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## tcarcio

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

I also support HD DVD and really only did so because of the arrogance of Sony and blu ray supporters that I met on some other forums. But I think it will be very hard to keep HD going unless Toshiba comes up with something soon. If Microsoft would put an HD DVD drive in the XBOX that would be huge,IMO. Also,Sonny, That article about Paramount was just opinion based and Paramount came out earlier today and said it was untrue and they plan on backing HD DVD for some time to come.


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## Sonnie

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



> *Paramount Denies Report It Will Drop Toshiba's HD DVD*
> 
> By Andy Fixmer and John Liu
> 
> Jan. 8 (Bloomberg) -- Viacom Inc.'s Paramount Pictures denied a newspaper report that the studio is poised to follow Time Warner Inc. in abandoning Toshiba Corp.'s HD DVD technology.
> 
> ``Paramount's current plan is to continue to support the HD DVD format,'' Brenda Ciccone, a spokeswoman for Paramount, said in an e-mail today.
> 
> Toshiba, the leading promoter of the HD DVD format for high- definition video discs, fell in Tokyo trading after the Financial Times reported Paramount is poised to adopt Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray format instead.
> 
> Paramount can defect because a clause in its contract with the HD DVD camp allows the studio to switch to Blu-ray if Warner Bros. Entertainment Inc. dropped its support of Toshiba's standard, the newspaper reported today, citing unidentified people familiar with the plan. Warner Bros. said on Jan. 4 it would drop its support of HD DVD.
> 
> Keisuke Ohmori, a spokesman for Tokyo-based Toshiba, said the report is speculative. Masayo Endo, a spokeswoman for Sony, declined to comment on the report.



Maybe I'll just stick with the 5000 order and hope for the best. I don't have room for two players and I hate to give up the ability to watch my small collection of HD-DVD in my HT room.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

even after reading all the posts above I still dont think HD DVD is done. I do think that the format will go away slowly but for the next year or two at least we will still see movies come out in the HD DVD format.


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## Richard W. Haines

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

Trades announced that Paramount backed out. That leaves Universal which is linked with Toshiba
but the format war is over and Blu-ray won. Perhaps some day we'll find out the corporate politics
behind the scenes and what really happened. If you spent money on a new HD DVD player, you
got burned as I did. I should've bought the $100 machine instead of the $500 one. Then I wouldn't
feel so cheated.


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## mike c

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

i bought the 500 dollar player and watched ONE movie. that sucks. but it was transformers


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## Richard W. Haines

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

I guess look for the remaining HD DVD discs at giveaway prices over the next couple of months. I'll try to
grab "Adventures of Robin Hood", "Under Siege", "Blazing Saddles" and the "Star Trek" TV series
when that happens. I was able to watch a number of the HD DVD titles and they looked and
sounded great including "2001", "Mutiny on the Bounty", "Trading Places", "Superman", "Animal
House" and "Willy Wonka". So I'll use the machine until it dies since it upscales Standard DVDs
nicely although when there was a glitch on the "Rockford Files" disc it wouldn't play it and I
had to switch to the Samsung player which will play anything. I'll wait until there's a decent
selection of Blu-ray discs out there that I actually want to own before purchasing a player.
Right now the selection is so small it's not worth the investment. Let's see what the studios
plan for release in the future since all of the old lists are now obsolete. I was looking forward
to the proposed Warner HD DVD discs of "The Music Man" and "North by Northwest" which will
hopefully now be released on Blu-ray in the near future. Both were filmed on similar large format
negatives (35mm horizontal negative with an eight sprocket image) and should look very sharp in high definition. It will also give me time to recover from getting ripped off on the Toshiba player.
Not really Toshiba's fault but certainly the industry's fault for not standardizing HD before it's
introduction to protect consumers although I doubt whether that is a concern for most studios.


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## atledreier

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

Truly a sad day. Let's just hope HD-DVD can find a way to survive. Although it's douptful...


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## MrPorterhouse

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

This has been a very, very interesting week, that's for sure. Lots and lots of internet news, rumors, speculation, and facts. The outpouring of news from CES 2008 is not over yet, either.

You know, back in 2006 before the launch of either format, I took a hard look at the likely scenarios for both formats. Mostly I looked at them from the CE's and Studios perspective because I knew that the consumers interests were not really a factor. It seemed Blu-ray would have a major advantage of both CE support(hardware companies) and studio support(movies). Cost and consumer friendliness had a lean towards HD DVD. Despite the cost model which drives most average Joe's, I saw Blu-ray as having a strong advantage to survive(not necessarily beat HD DVD, but at least co-exist with HD DVD). I did not see HD DVD as a wise purchase for myself(it would be a good choice for those who have to have Universal movies in HD), so I took the sacrifice of not being able to watch Universal movies in HD, and bought a PS3. A PS3 would allow me to play Blu-rays, but it would also not be a total waste of a purchase if BD were to fail because the PS3 could play games, serve a media hub for music, videos, and photos. It was a safeguard for me that I told myself, I won't buy a standalone until the format war has come to a conclusion and player specs and prices have met my needs, which I thought back in 2006 might happen in 2008 or 2009. It looks like everything is on pace with my original thinking, but you just don't know. I think the HD DVD can't afford the payoffs anymore, while the BDA certainly has a lot of cash. Unless Microsoft were to step in and help HD DVD, then HD DVD is going to fade away.


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## Bob_99

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

Having gone through the VHS-Betamax competition, none of this comes as a surprise to me. What amazes me a bit is that consumers still bite on these dualing formats issues. New technology is always very tempting and fun to play with, but it is us who need to look at these things and say no until a single standard is accepted and I just don't see that happening. I agree with the concerns that lack of competition leads to higher prices on both the players and the DVDs, especially if Sony has its way. 

Bob


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## wbassett

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



tcarcio said:


> I also support HD DVD and really only did so because of the arrogance of Sony and blu ray supporters that I met on some other forums. But I think it will be very hard to keep HD going unless Toshiba comes up with something soon. If Microsoft would put an HD DVD drive in the XBOX that would be huge,IMO. Also,Sonny, That article about Paramount was just opinion based and Paramount came out earlier today and said it was untrue and they plan on backing HD DVD for some time to come.


This was a shock to the HD DVD community. 

I talked to my brother yesterday about the recent events. He too is format neutral but said he's done... he said he won't buy another HD DVD because, his words, "It's over".

I honestly can't see anything Toshiba can do at this point. Short of a miracle, what can they do? I'll preface this by saying this is my opinion so nobody reads into this as anything other than that...

The one thing Toshiba could do is slash player prices again and get the A3 to $100. The problems with that are first consumers that are watching this unfold most likely are going to see that as dumping their inventory. It could get some unaware consumers to buy, but then you have the stores, are they going to even continue carrying the players? As it is right now a lot of places (that I've been to) don't carry the players right now anyway. Best Buy and Circuit City of course do, but my local Walmart and Target don't. My local Sams is BD exclusive already, so no players there and doubtful there ever will be now. So that's the first problem and hurdle Toshiba would have to jump... convincing not only consumers it's not a dead format and just and inventory dump, but also to convince stores to stock the players. I think whatever is in stock is what will be sold and stores not carrying HD DVD players already most likely aren't going to be interested in them at all now.

The 'miracle' would be everyone coming out and saying they will release on both formats, or a major studio (or two) announcing they are leaving Bluray for HD DVD, and I just don't see either of those things happening. Again, that's just my opinion and thoughts.

I do wonder what will be done for those people that bought HD DVD players over Christmas, I suspect nothing because the manufacturers will say it's not their problem or fault. I honestly don't see any re-embursement programs being done, why would Sony or Toshiba? I know a few pretty upset people right now, and some are talking about returning players.

So what do we do? As much as people don't like this situation or want to hear this, the only thing we can do is accept it unless something really major happens. Right now that doesn't seem very realistic though. Here is what I personally am going to do... The players I have upconvert very well so I am happy there. Not so happy that new content most likely won't be available now, but there are still are a ton of movies on HD DVD that I don't have and if this truly is the 'end', they should start dropping in price soon. I'll buy them even though it's a dead format if the price is right. I'll just have to accept that if there is anything new coming out I want I have to buy it on BD.

My friend is up visiting and he said we (as in us on these forums) are in a niche and more aware and sensitive to technology and events like this. He on the other hand said he's glad it's over (if it is) and also said most average consumers won't even realize what happened because they don't follow things as close as we do. So when they finally decide to get a player, it will be what brand of BD player not what format to think about. 

Toshiba says HD DVD isn't dead yet, and as we've seen in the past year it's been a wild ride at times, but this is major. Even so, I think we should also wait to hear what Toshiba is going to say. They have to respond soon so let's wait to hear what they say before calling it officially dead- mortally wounded maybe...


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## Mitch G

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

I think HD-DVD is dying. 
And, I was wrong. I figured that Blu-Ray would win only if they could figure out how to slash prices of the players to be comparable (or better) than HD-DVD player prices (i.e. ~$200 or less). So, how did Blu win without the cheap player?

I'll give some credit to the Sony marketing machine. They really are good at marketing. Over the past month, I've received two direct mailers - one about PS3 and one about "HDNA" that are quite impressive. 

But, I think the main "problem" is that the studios don't count rentals. I would not be surprised if more HD-DVDs are rented than Blu-Ray simply because I think the HD-DVD demographic is more frugal than the Blu-Ray demographic. Thus, HD-DVD folks rent while Blu-Ray folks buy. (Massive generalization, I know, but this is the web and so I'm allowed to speculate all I want. )
I also think that same Blu demographic that bought PS3s to play games are going to stores to buy a game but come home with a Blu Ray disc because there are no games to buy.

Personally, I would like to see services like VuDu just kick it into gear and offer lots of HD offerings. Then I could justify getting a VuDu box. "Look, Hon. You just download movies and go! Neat, huh?"

Right now, I can't justify replacing (or adding to) my 6 month old HD-DVD player.
"Look Hon! We have another DVD player!" Yeah, that just won't fly. 



Mitch


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



Mitch G said:


> So, how did Blu win without the cheap player?
> 
> I'll give some credit to the Sony marketing machine. They really are good at marketing. Over the past month


Having Disney on the BluRay side is a huge boost for that side of the camp in my opinion. There are allot of families with kids that have been early adopters of HD and Disney clearly has that market with buying Pixar and all the other family friendly movies.


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## Mitch G

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



tonyvdb said:


> Having Disney on the BluRay side is a huge boost for that side of the camp in my opinion. There are allot of families with kids that have been early adopters of HD and Disney clearly has that market with buying Pixar and all the other family friendly movies.


See, I never saw the Disney backing of Blu Ray as a critical advantage. The only Disney movies I really like these days are the Pixar movies and they already look quite good on SD DVD. So, I never felt like I was going to be missing out on too much not seeing them in HD. And, Disney has only recently started releasing movies in Blu-Ray. But, you're probably right, if all other things are equal, then having Disney in one camp helps that camp.


Mitch


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## MrPorterhouse

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



Mitch G said:


> See, I never saw the Disney backing of Blu Ray as a critical advantage. The only Disney movies I really like these days are the Pixar movies and they already look quite good on SD DVD. So, I never felt like I was going to be missing out on too much not seeing them in HD.
> Mitch


Yeah, I thought so too......until I saw CARS or Ratatouille on Blu-ray. Talk about total 3D immersion. WOW! Animation has NEVER looked this good. And then there's the sound. My OH My does it sound amazing. The depth, clarity, and resolution is through the roof. I also hear that Finding Nemo is getting a completely re-designed audio in the form of a New 7.1 Home Theater Mix. I can't wait for this title.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

I fully agree with you, I have the SD version of Cars and the BluRay version is a huge step better than the SD. I honestly was not expecting the difference to be that much.


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## John Simpson

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

Watch the Blu-ray reviews, though. By all accounts, the Blu-ray disc of "Fifth Element" is *worse *than the DVD version. Something to do with a really ****** video transfer...

I also doubt there's much improvement in some of the older movies, especially the pre-Dolby Digital ones.

On the plus side, watch the opening credits of "Casino Royale" and you think you're in HD heaven :unbelievable:


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## MacDad2

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

It will be interesting to see what happens this year.. right now it appears a potential death blow has occured, but never count out a partner of Microsoft. Microsoft spends $6B to $7Billion a year on R&D and they can afford to underwrite infant/early adopter technology like HD players and lure back media kings.

Initially I was ticked off reading the story late last week as I have ~ 65 HD DVD discs, and in fact bought my relatives HD-DVD players for X-Mas.

I will also speculate that the media / studios are in a bit of a panic right now as they are becoming more reliant on DVD sales due to fact that cinema tickets did not grow in 2007 as what they expected. It might have helped if they put out a few more blockbusters.

Chris


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## mike c

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

i don't know what to do! if I don't buy new HD DVD movies ... my player is useless. if I do buy movies and when the player eventually dies (when HD DVD is also dead) I'd have lots of HD DVD coasters!

do I just cut my losses and just assume I bought a super expensive but very slow upscaling DVD player?

is the A35 really better at upscaling than my pioneer DV600 upscaling player?


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## Sonnie

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

I know how you feel Mike. It's a tough decision. One minute I'm sticking with my guns for a dual format player... the next I'm pulling a Warner Bros. and dumping HD-DVD. :dontknow: I really need to hear something from the HD-DVD camp as to their intentions. 

My thing is there are certain movies on HD-DVD that I would like to have in high def format. If HD-DVD does throw in the towel, how long will it be before Blu-ray produces those must haves on BD? I suppose I survived years with SD-DVD and still watch a lot of SD-DVD that I can just buy the SD-DVD versions and wait for BD to be produced.


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## atledreier

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*

I am gonna stock up on HD-DVD software now, that's for sure! There are some great old classics on HD-DVD that I want, and some great new movies as well. Come on guys, let's enjoy the superior format while it lasts! We'll soon enough be thrown into the region, DRM, mediocre upscaling of BD wether we want to or not! Barricade the doors! Man the ramparts! All hands on deck for the showdown of the millennium! :mooooh: :mooooh: :mooooh: :boxer:addle::hide::surrender:


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## MrPorterhouse

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



Sonnie said:


> I know how you feel Mike. It's a tough decision. One minute I'm sticking with my guns for a dual format player... the next I'm pulling a Warner Bros. and dumping HD-DVD. :dontknow: I really need to hear something from the HD-DVD camp as to their intentions.
> 
> My thing is there are certain movies on HD-DVD that I would like to have in high def format. If HD-DVD does throw in the towel, how long will it be before Blu-ray produces those must haves on BD? I suppose I survived years with SD-DVD and still watch a lot of SD-DVD that I can just buy the SD-DVD versions and wait for BD to be produced.


That would depend on what the "Must Haves" are for you. If they are very popular HD DVD's, then you can be resonably sure that they will make it to Blu-ray. It also depends on how long you can wait. If you can't wait, then that combo player makes sense. If you can wait, then buying a Blu-ray player makes sense, too.


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## bobgpsr

In regards to having combo BD/HD DVD players:

The actual extra HW stuff needed by a BD player (*BD Live -- profile 2.0*) which has DVD compatibility (don't they all?) is very little. Just the need to add the use of the existing 405 nm blue laser when focusing to the DVD 0.6 mm depth.

More software is required in the area of HDi, network, and low level HD DVD modulation & format protocols. Plus extra testing and certification. But once a company has implemented that once -- the reoccuring cost is very very low for software

Long term wise I cannot see why combo (aka universal) players will not be built -- worst case is that only Toshiba will make them in 3 years. LG and Samsung are making them now -- what is the business case for them to stop doing so?


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## wbassett

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



mike c said:


> i don't know what to do! if I don't buy new HD DVD movies ... my player is useless. if I do buy movies and when the player eventually dies (when HD DVD is also dead) I'd have lots of HD DVD coasters!
> 
> do I just cut my losses and just assume I bought a super expensive but very slow upscaling DVD player?
> 
> is the A35 really better at upscaling than my pioneer DV600 upscaling player?


It's not as bad as it may sound.

I've said this last year and early on in this 'war', and others have recently said the same, and that is eventually someone was going to have a dead format but it doesn't mean the player is useless.

Unlike Beta VCRs or Laser disc players that only played one specific format (you couldn't even physically put the media in another system, and yes I still have my Laser disc player and movies ), HD DVD and BD played SDVD all along and both upconvert. Many people have paid a lot of money in the past for good upconverting SDVD players, some paid way more than what an HD DVD player now costs. The only downside is when the player eventually breaks, but with proper care and normal usage, they should last quite awhile. By the time a unit breaks, and I am talking on average, not the one unit that was defective from the start, Bluray players will be down in price and most people will have picked up one and replaced their 'must have' HD DVD titles. This really was inevitable and either side had to accept this as something they would eventually face.

My plans are to snag a player when they go on clearance and put it in the closet as a spare. I paid around $75 for my A2 in our bedroom and I'm sure I'll see prices that low in the upcoming months. For those that built up an impressive and extensive HD DVD library already, I suggest they think about doing the same, but don't break the bank... when you see a player for the right price, say well under $100 for one of the entry level units, or say $150 for an XA2 or A35, it would be worth snagging as a spare- but again I'd say this is only a recommendation I would make for someone that has a large HD DVD collection already...

I really don't see this as a Beta player scenario since the HD DVD players do an exceptional job at upconverting. If this is the end of the war, there will also be closeout/clearance sales on HD DVD titles at rock bottom prices. If the price is a bargin, why not? Don't forget about those combo discs out there too... they will eventually be in the 'bargin bin' for clearance and with those you'll be able to play the SDVD side in any player.

So I guess I'm saying if this really is it, things aren't a total bust... it all depends on how you look at it. Everyone I have talked to that's not as in tune and bleeding edge adopters like us on these forums tend to be are saying if this is the end, they are glad it's over.


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## mekkanic

I'm going to wait.....


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## Mitch G

*Re: Is the format war really about to be over?*



MrPorterhouse said:


> Yeah, I thought so too......until I saw CARS or Ratatouille on Blu-ray. Talk about total 3D immersion. WOW! Animation has NEVER looked this good. And then there's the sound. My OH My does it sound amazing. The depth, clarity, and resolution is through the roof. I also hear that Finding Nemo is getting a completely re-designed audio in the form of a New 7.1 Home Theater Mix. I can't wait for this title.


Yeah, I forgot about the sound bit, but that's interesting that there is such a difference with Pixar movies. I guess it's not surprising that an already impressive movie in 480i would look outstanding in HD. 
Well, if I could snag a PS3 for $200, I would probably do so. That plays into the "Honey, I thought we should add an HD gaming system to the family room." And, my son wouldn't mind either. 
Unfortunately, I think the $200 PS3 is not going to happen any time soon. 


Mitch


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## Bob_99

I've waited this long so I guess I can hang on a little longer. In the meantime, hopefully prices will drop on both the players and the DVDs.

Bob


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## conchyjoe7

Since examples are being given as to BD superiority with animation etc. Any of the BD group folks seen "Polar Express" or "Transformers" in HD-DVD? No? How about "Unforgiven" "Blazing Saddles", "2001"? I could go on and on...please, unless you've seen these as well as many others in HD-DVD; don't assume anything about Sony's technology being superior; it simply is NOT! :hush:


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## ACGREEN

Guess I bought the HDDVD for nothing. Time to buy a PS3.


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## Sonnie

I'm leaning towards a PS3 as well... who knows... maybe I'll start playing a game here and there. At least they keep it updated and working, which is more than I can say for any of the other BD players. It seems like all of the others have problems playing some BD... and/or are just too buggy for my comfort level.


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## JDRoberts

I'm going to follow the same course I have been on since I bought my XA2.
The game plan was-if/when there is a Bluray player that will match my XA2 in features,content and reliability for roughly the same price($439.00),I will buy it.

Until then,I will still purchase the HDDVDs I want to see.


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## owlfan12000

I bought a new Mitsubishi 57" 1080p DLP on Thanksgiving and got an HD-A35 from Amazon a few days later. The only HD movies I own are a Matrix collection that I got for Christmas and that is still shrink wrapped. My window for returning the player to Amazon for a refund is January 31st. Does anyone think I shouldn't return the player and the Matrix collection?


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## wbassett

owlfan12000 said:


> I bought a new Mitsubishi 57" 1080p DLP on Thanksgiving and got an HD-A35 from Amazon a few days later. The only HD movies I own are a Matrix collection that I got for Christmas and that is still shrink wrapped. My window for returning the player to Amazon for a refund is January 31st. Does anyone think I shouldn't return the player and the Matrix collection?


This is always a tough one, telling someone what to do...

Seeing that you don't have an HD DVD library built up already you may have some thinking. The A35 is a great unit, but it's kind of senseless to keep it just for upconverting. If you had a ton of HD DVDs I'd say yeah keep it. If you're thinking keep it for upconversion reasons, you can get that with a BD player too... depending on the player it may be close but not as good, but at least you'll be able to play high def. 

Give it another week for a Toshiba press release, if they don't say anything next week, or if all they say is that HD DVD isn't dead but don't layout any specifics as to how they support that stand, it is probably time to move on. One thing I have learned is when compainies merge, or are talking about outsourcing, they always tell their employees not to worry, nobody is going to lose their jobs... well expect Toshiba to say it's not over yet so they can keep the hope of selling existing player stock. Unless they have a detailed plan and more important, if they can back it up, this is all over except for the formal concession.

I am format neutral and own more HD DVDs than BD, so I'm not trashing Toshiba, I'm being realistic. The people I personally know that have HD DVD players (some are also format neutral too) are all saying they aren't spending anymore money on discs. The feeling in the air is it's over, and sometimes that can be all it takes to really drive it home and make it a reality.


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## Bradley

*PS3*



Sonnie said:


> I'm leaning towards a PS3 as well... who knows... maybe I'll start playing a game here and there. At least they keep it updated and working, which is more than I can say for any of the other BD players. It seems like all of the others have problems playing some BD... and/or are just too buggy for my comfort level.


I bought a used PS3 a while back just watch BD movies. It's worked well for that purpose and been trouble free for the most part. It certainly boots up faster than my HD DVD player. The Bluetooh remote is nice for me since my A/V gear isn't easily in line of sight, but I know some people want/need IR so they can use a universal remote. Somebody makes a small and cheap IR receiver that plugs into one of the USB ports on the front of the PS3, but I forget who. (Google is your friend.  )

I'm certainly disappointed with the recent turn of events. The only reason I bought into BD is to get titles not available on HD DVD. I like BD just fine but Sony's long history of pushing proprietary formats and the BDA's aggressive marketing tactics are irritating. It's too bad the studios have been choosing sides from the very beginning and denying the other side access to their catalog in high def. On more "equal footing", HD DVD would be very competitive with BD. Of course the so-called experts and the internet nerds seem to think BD deserves to win due to its higher bitrate and storage capacity. It's hard to argue that more isn't better, as far as that goes, but the reality is that it doesn't translate to a better HD experience 95% of the time.


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## Sonnie

I'm somewhat back favoring the Samsung 1400 now... I keep going back and forth. I want something that plays BD and I want it now, but just can't seem to pull the plug on something.

I would still like to hear something from Toshiba and the HD-DVD studios before a make a decision as to what I will do. I'm rather anxious though.


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## PhotoByMark

I do not like the fact that some movies are one format and others on the other. I have been considering getting a dual format player or individual players for both formats. Given recent events, I think I will just wait a little longer. Not too long, but long enough to get my speakers that I want to get. Then, if nothing changes in the next month or two I will probably just get a PS3. I suppose the only good news if you can call it that that if there is one format perhaps we will see more players from more manufacturers?


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## wbassett

More important Mark is once it's officially over we'll then see all studios putting their new releases out all on one format as far as HD. 

The biggest problem now besides mass acceptance is all the people that bought HD DVD players... now they have to be not only convinced to buy a BD player, but some are very angry and it will take a bit more than an ad campaign to bring them over, at least for a long time. 

HD DVD will be treated as a legacy system for awhile, or at least it should. Some people have a rather extensive HD DVD library and they need to feel secure that they will still be able to play their movies. Eventually though, it will be displaced.


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## PhotoByMark

I totally agree. 

This format war is not good for anybody. In fact, IMO, the entire market looses because there are many folks like me who are struggling to adopt either platform and continue to wait to see what happens although I am really close to just buying a PS3 for now.


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## Owen Bartley

I can totally understand that if one format gets pushed out, the supporters of that one would become jaded (and rightfully so) and perhaps turn against the HD format in general, but I also think that many will come around rather quickly, because they are in it for the enjoyment of the movies, and that's tough to give up. Also, there will probably be a wave of fence sitters who cave and buy a player once a "winner" emerges, which will strengthen sales and presence quite a bit.


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## OvalNut

Stick a fork in it, it's done. Really.


Tim
:drive:


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## wbassett

OJ I think that's exactly where we are at right now... If people in general feel it's over, there's not much Toshiba can do or spin to change their minds. If the fence sitters all start buying BD players because they think it's over then perception will make it real.


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## Bradley

Sonnie said:


> I'm somewhat back favoring the Samsung 1400 now... I keep going back and forth. I want something that plays BD and I want it now, but just can't seem to pull the plug on something.
> 
> I would still like to hear something from Toshiba and the HD-DVD studios before a make a decision as to what I will do. I'm rather anxious though.


As you may have heard, Toshiba just cut prices across the board on the 3rd gen HD DVD players. For $130 you can pick up a HD-A3 at Amazon or Tiger Direct with two movies in the box and the mail-in deal for 5 more. That's less than $20 per movie with a "free" player and certainly the least expensive way to get into the HD movie game at this time. Admittedly the future isn't looking very bright right now for HD DVD but it would seem Toshiba isn't giving up without a fight.

For BD players, it's hard to beat the PS3 (which is what I use). It's the fastest and "future proof" (most upgradable) of them all. I've heard it takes quite a long time for some of the standalone players to chew through the BD-J stuff and start playing discs like Rataouille.


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## Bradley

OvalNut said:


> Stick a fork in it, it's done. Really.


Toshiba is definitely "on the ropes" but it isn't quite over *yet*. Obviously they need to reel one or more studios back in to the HD DVD fold as soon as possible.

It would appear the new price cuts are working as the HD-A3 player has gone from #13 in Electronics this morning to #7 right now.

Amazon.com Sales Rank: #7 in Electronics (See Bestsellers in Electronics)
#1 in Electronics > DVD Players & Recorders > HD DVD Players 
#1 in Electronics > DVD Players & Recorders > DVD Players


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## wbassett

My brother just told me about the price cuts too, but as much as I hate saying it and people hate to hear it, without studio support it will only come across as inventory dump.

TOSHIBA... SAY SOMETHING! Even if it's a concession speech, they need to say something, anything...

I agree Bradley, they have to romance a studio back and soon, but people's perception is that it's over and some have even returned their players. Toshiba has to say something and quick or they won't recover from this as far as HD DVD.


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## Owen Bartley

Bradley said:


> For $130 you can pick up a HD-A3 at Amazon or Tiger Direct with two movies in the box and the mail-in deal for 5 more. That's less than $20 per movie with a "free" player


I don't know, I'm really considering this deal. To get 7 decent movies in HD for ~$20 AND the player, I think it's a great way to get yourself started. It may come back to bite you I guess if you end up having to go to BD and maybe even replace those movies, but if you have enough inputs, and enough space in your AV rack, there's no reason you can't have both players eventually, and maybe even pick up some more titles at a discount if HD-DVD does fade out.


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## Bradley

It's an incredible deal for the price. All the Toshiba players upscale standard DVDs nicely and you can rent HD DVDs from Netflix and Blockbuster (online). I would do it in a heartbeat but I already have a HD-XA2.  

My first HD DVD player has a HD-A2 I bought back in March of last year for $350! Later I upgraded to the XA2... mostly to get 24fps, but also to have 1080p for that glorious day when I upgrade my projector again. 

No matter what happens, I don't and won't have any regrets. I've enjoyed the ride. The main reason I picked up the PS3 was to have access to BD titles not on available HD DVD... like Kung Fu Hustle.  Again, no regrets. Picture and sound quality is about the same between the two formats. You could argue that BD has slightly better PQ and SQ, but both formats look and sound great. You'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between the two.


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## Owen Bartley

Well I checked around a bit for Canadian pricing on the HD-A3, and Best Buy has it for $350, Future Shop has it on sale for $250 this week, and Amazon and Tiger Direct don't seem to carry it in Canada. Looks like unless I make a trip down to Buffalo in the near future I'll be letting this one pass.


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## tonyvdb

In Canada we should see prices drop soon as well given the strong performance of the CAD $$. Reading this post tells me that Toshiba is not going down without a fight but with only two major Studios backing the HD camp I just dont see them lasting.


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## Anthony

It's a simple decision for me: no BluRay, ever. I'll enjoy my HD DVD titles and may pick up a few fire-sale ones to enjoy on my current player and I'll stick with regular DVD until the next thing comes along -- hopefully download content (I have a lot of experience with network servers, RAID, and backups, so I trust my ability to download and store stuff safely  )

Once Sony started the whole Blu Ray rift, I decided: no Sony products, ever again. I'll go without rather than support their business practices. ****, maybe I'll start enjoying my 2 channel system again


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## Warpdrv

I sure am glad I have held out here....

I was around and bought a Beta, and fought VHS but in the end there was a format war and only 1 winner... I have no need for a player yet, but when I do, I know there will only be 1. Which ever that one is... As everyone has always said.... we only need 1 format, why can't they just come to a decision, the consumer in the end will dictate which one is the winner. 

If I bought a HD-DVD player and I had an oppertunity to return it, I would be doing just that... Its a shame that if HD-DVD doesn't make it, all the people and companies that invested in it will be out money for a failed project.


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## jeffgoetz1

Forbes.com


PaidContent.org
Toshiba Steps Up HD DVD Push Post-CES; Slashes Player Prices
Staci D. Kramer 01.14.08, 4:00 PM ET

Now, Toshiba is fighting back—a week after the death-bed stories, if not obits, in response, first, to Warner Bros.’s embrace of Blu-Ray from Sony and then to Universal’s decision not to date HD DVD exclusively.

The consumer electronics company, which has placed a large bet on HD DVD being at least one of two formats, is slashing prices on is HD DVD players, with some dropping to as low as $149.99, according to AP.

It’s a half-empty, half-full moment for retailers, who could see a sales boost at the same time that some may be faced with price matching from holiday sales.

The headline on the release actually explains the strategy: Toshiba Deploys New HD DVD Marketing Initiatives Based on Strong Fourth Quarter Unit Sales: Mass Market Acceptance Confirms that HD DVD is the Consumer’s Choice for Next Generation High Def Entertainment.”

The theory: play up the acceptance by consumers who have already paid for HD DVD versus those who get it with something else like a gaming console, get more players out there—and dare studios to ignore those consumers.

In addition to the sales cuts, Toshiba will launch “major initiatives, including joint advertising campaigns with studios.”

Toshiba says it closed 2007 with approximately 50% market share and an 80%-plus share of next-gen equipped notebooks sold in Q407.

Yoshi Uchiyama, Group Vice President Digital A/V Group: “While price is one of the consideration elements for the early adopter, it is a deal-breaker for the mainstream consumer.” But will mainstream users pay even reduced amounts for something without full studio coverage?

Online content access: Universal Home Video, Paramount Pictures and DreamWorks Animation SKG report that “an average of 30 percent of HD DVD owners have accessed Web- enabled network features and continue to do so regularly.” Players hooked up to the internet can stream new content, trailers, etc.


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