# Speaker Advise



## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

Ok so we just re-designed our "game room" it roughly 20ish by 12ish. I have a tv mounted in the corner unfortunatly because of a window where I really wanted it. Most of the time in this room it is used for music when we have gatherings and playing video games.

My question is I would like to know what brand speakers would best fit my needs. When we listen to music we like to have it turned up a bit I would prefer to go with a floorstanding speaker vs bookshelf type for fronts because of space. I will be going with a component system (I'm pretty sure) because we have a PS3 that can take care of all other needs.

Ok, Christmas coming around and guess the wife wants to get me a receiver. think it is going to be a Sony STR-DH810 Receiver or Marantz SR5005 for power.

Now comes speakers. Where this will be placed will be our gameroom as I said. Lots of sports, video games, and lots of music. Still in debate as far as 7.1 or 5.1. 5.1 would be easier with room layout to install but oh well, I'll make either happen !

Now I need some help with speakers! I want to do floor standing front speakers and leaning toward Velodyne sub. Any one have some advice for me on a good set up for me. Really like Cerwin Vega cmx series, but been looking at Polk and Klipsch. My Floorstanding and center channel all same brand, and wouldn't mind a "smaller" speaker for all the rear's

Thanks hoping someone can lead me in right direction!!!! Frustration is setting in 

Oh yeah I don't want to have to get another mortgage to pay for this system either LOL I would like to keep it under 2g for a decent 5.1


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Welcome. I would recommend Auditioning some Speakers in the area. Brands like Paradigm, Klipsch, PSB, Definitive Tech all make excellent Speakers to name but a few. Getting a chance to Audition some will help in establishing what Speaker Design most impresses.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

I agree with JJ on the speaker choices and with PSB having sales on alot of there stuff i think you would be able to squeeze 5.1 into your budget fairly easily. The recomendation of auditioning is also your best bet.:T


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I agree also on the speakers mentioned. Listen to as many as you can and let your ears decide. Also, IMO, I would go with the Marantz over the Sony.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

Hey guys GREAT input thanks a million! Guess I didn't make myself clear, the 2g budget is for speakers, not including the receiver! And one of the HUGE problems around my area, there is one stereo shop within a couple hundred miles of me. So I would really like to go in and say hey, these are what I wanna hear, you got them!? But I will scope all out online first! I'm a research freak but want a few to narrow search from. Prob is the more I read about speakers I think I'd like the more I read they aren't good for jamming out some music! So feel free give me more idea's, tomorrow when I have more sleep I will look at all options above!!! THANKS!!! :T


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Before making the long drive to the audio shop give them a call and ask what brands they have on hand, if they are a real customer freindly store they will be able to satisfy your needs.:T


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

bigk_54 said:


> Hey guys GREAT input thanks a million! Guess I didn't make myself clear, the 2g budget is for speakers, not including the receiver! And one of the HUGE problems around my area, there is one stereo shop within a couple hundred miles of me. So I would really like to go in and say hey, these are what I wanna hear, you got them!? But I will scope all out online first! I'm a research freak but want a few to narrow search from. Prob is the more I read about speakers I think I'd like the more I read they aren't good for jamming out some music! So feel free give me more idea's, tomorrow when I have more sleep I will look at all options above!!! THANKS!!! :T


for $2k

Monitor Audio RX Silver, PSB Image, Focal Chorus 700 series

Or, you could get 2 sets of Totem Rainmakers or Dynaudio Excite X12s, run your system as a 4.0 setup until you can get the center channel. Overall better then the speakers listed above, esp with music.


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

bambino said:


> Before making the long drive to the audio shop give them a call and ask what brands they have on hand, if they are a real customer freindly store they will be able to satisfy your needs.:T


very true, and it would be good to see if there are other dealers around that you just don't know about. Then you can spend your day with a couple dealers.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

callas01 said:


> for $2k
> 
> Monitor Audio RX Silver, PSB Image, Focal Chorus 700 series
> 
> Or, you could get 2 sets of Totem Rainmakers or Dynaudio Excite X12s, run your system as a 4.0 setup until you can get the center channel. Overall better then the speakers listed above, esp with music.


These are some of my favorite Brands. I love Focal and Dynaudio, but with a 2k Budget and wanting to do 5.1 with that amount, it would seem impossible. Even used.
Cheers,
JJ


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> These are some of my favorite Brands. I love Focal and Dynaudio, but with a 2k Budget and wanting to do 5.1 with that amount, it would seem impossible. Even used.
> Cheers,
> JJ


well yea, 5.1 wouldn't happen, but 4 Dynaudio Excites X12s or 4 Totem Rainmakers would give you some pretty good bass that you could live without a sub for a little while until you could save and get a sub and a center channel. Esp in music, whether 2-channel or multi-channel, the X12s and Rainmakers do pretty good based on their size. They both list at $1200, but should be able to get them for $1000 ea pair.

Since you like Dynaudio, you know that they have great bass due to their driver technology, and some of the best, most neutral and revealing mid-range in there price range and even beyond.

Of course the total would be somewhere closer to $3500 total, but its so very worth it.

BTW, I like your taste in speakers.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

WOW! All this is fabulous information!!!! I know what I am going to be doing all day long! I'll be honest focal's were one of my first choices, but I had focals in my car audio set up and know what I paid for those so I elminated them out of my choices, didn't even wanna find price tag . I am going to continue to look at some of the options given here, maybe I can Johnny Cash this system (one piece at a time, but it's gonna cost me lots more than a dime). Just have to not tell wife how much it costs lol. I know you get what you pay for, I just don't want to need another mortgage to pay for my HT. 

And you were right, there was one more that I thought about! We live in a real rural area, want mcdonalds, we have one in a town with 2,000 people, but a high end stereo shop, there a dying bread! When I was younger each of the big cities near us used to have 2 or 4 of them. I have sent off quick email to them to ask what brands they offer, when I hear back I will reply here and maybe y'all can lead me where to listen before I go.

I appreciate everyone's advice! I look at what some of you guys have in your HT and drool wishing I could build one like that! Just not all of us can have that (yet) and that's why I come here to see if anyone used the cheaper stuff one day  THANKS THANKS THANKS!!!!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

callas01 said:


> well yea, 5.1 wouldn't happen, but 4 Dynaudio Excites X12s or 4 Totem Rainmakers would give you some pretty good bass that you could live without a sub for a little while until you could save and get a sub and a center channel. Esp in music, whether 2-channel or multi-channel, the X12s and Rainmakers do pretty good based on their size. They both list at $1200, but should be able to get them for $1000 ea pair.
> 
> Since you like Dynaudio, you know that they have great bass due to their driver technology, and some of the best, most neutral and revealing mid-range in there price range and even beyond.
> 
> ...


Gracias Amigo. I quite like the Setup you Own. Focal, Dynaudio, and Thiel are the Speakers that would make me consider changing from Electrostats. That being said, the current Generations of Martin Logan are shockingly dynamic.

Both the Owner of this Website Sonnie and I use Martin Logan Speakers for our HT's and words cannot convey just how pleased I have been. Still, I loved the Thiels I used own and had Focal Utopia's in my last Car and my brother owns Beryllium Tweetered Focals in his 2 Channel rig that I adore.

I do also advocate getting the best Speakers possible at the expense of not having all 5 Channels at once. That being said, some folks have a set amount that cannot be changed in respect to how much will be spent on Speakers and I attempt to honor their wishes.
Cheers,
JJ


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

bigk_54 said:


> I would prefer to go with a floorstanding speaker vs bookshelf type for fronts because of space. I will be going with a component system (I'm pretty sure) because we have a PS3 that can take care of all other needs.



I'm not sure I understand your statement there, but I think you're saying you thinking a floostander is better. I'm a heretic when it comes to this kind of thing -- I think you can get more bang for the buck with a "bookshelf" type speaker. You're going to have a sub handling the low stuff so I'd go for the speaker you'd get the best < 80hz sound out of and I'd argue that's usually going to be a bookshelf rather than a floorstander, at least in the budget area.





bigk_54 said:


> Ok, Christmas coming around and guess the wife wants to get me a receiver. think it is going to be a Sony STR-DH810 Receiver or Marantz SR5005 for power.



I'm not sure if I missed it, but I'd look at an Onkyo receiver instead. I think they're getting more love than Marantz or Sony these days. And if you look on accessories4less, you can usually find some really good deals. One more thing, don't get caught up in the watts of a speaker. The actual output of, say 100 watts vs 150 watts is pretty negligible -- if I did this right, the difference is only 1.8db's -- you need 10 to double the perceived loudness.




bigk_54 said:


> Now comes speakers. Where this will be placed will be our gameroom as I said. Lots of sports, video games, and lots of music. Still in debate as far as 7.1 or 5.1. 5.1 would be easier with room layout to install but oh well, I'll make either happen !


I think you stick with 5.1 -- it's just easier to set up properly.



bigk_54 said:


> Now I need some help with speakers! I want to do floor standing front speakers and leaning toward Velodyne sub. Any one have some advice for me on a good set up for me. Really like Cerwin Vega cmx series, but been looking at Polk and Klipsch. My Floorstanding and center channel all same brand, and wouldn't mind a "smaller" speaker for all the rear's


Knowing my bias towards bookshelf speakers, my go to speaker recommendation is the Usher s-520. At $400/pr, I don't see how they can be beat. And they're rated to go down to 52hz. That's going to be probably as good as any floorstander in the same price range. Get 6 of those for $1200 (maybe you could sell a single to someone) and then pair that with an SVS sub, and you have a system that will shred anything you could get at your big box stores. And you've still come in under $2,000. 

Note: the SVS sub is on double sale right now. Get $100 plus another 10% because it's Black Friday weekend.


Oh, and in case you haven't read it, you might find this a good read. I may be a little biased of course... :innocent:


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

> I'm not sure I understand your statement there, but I think you're saying you thinking a floostander is better. I'm a heretic when it comes to this kind of thing -- I think you can get more bang for the buck with a "bookshelf" type speaker. You're going to have a sub handling the low stuff so I'd go for the speaker you'd get the best < 80hz sound out of and I'd argue that's usually going to be a bookshelf rather than a floorstander, at least in the budget area.


First of all, a crossover isn't a brick wall filter. A speaker that can play down to 50 or 60hz will blend more smoothly with a subwoofer than one which barely extends to 75hz. Both can be crossed at 80hz but the former will have no problems integrating whereas you might find yourself getting better integration at 100hz or even 120hz crossover points. It's just the nature of crossovers... you give yourself more flexibility the lower you can extend.

Second there's a matter of output. Sure, a bookshelf will suffice for low level listening, but a floorstander will not only be more efficient, but usually they have more drivers and thus are capable of more output. What's the point in having a sub that does 110db @ 60hz if your 2-driver bookshelf distorts @ 100hz at 97db? The dynamics won't be a seemless blend. Truth is, most bookshelves try to get midbass out of 4 and 5.25 inch drivers.. by nature they'll need more excursion (and thus distortion) around frequencies like 200hz and 300hz than say, a 3-way tower with three 8 inch mid bass drivers. 

Third, bookshelves are almost always less sensitive than towers. That means you're pushing your receiver harder to get them to the same SPL. That in turn means you're more likely to not only hit the thermal and linearity limits of the drivers, but also the limits of the amplifier section. Higher efficiency is valuable.



> I'm not sure if I missed it, but I'd look at an Onkyo receiver instead. I think they're getting more love than Marantz or Sony these days.


Huh? Marantz is great. Onkyo is the useless-features-on-the-cheap-leader but won't beat Marantz in processing sound quality. I got nothing against Onkyo to be honest but 10/10 times I'd buy certain other brands before them.



> That's going to be probably as good as any floorstander in the same price range.


an EMP e5Ti would beg to differ, as long as you go into their b-stock section you can get those for $400.



> I may be a little biased of course... :innocent:


who isn't? :whistling:


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

JCD said:


> I'm not sure I understand your statement there, but I think you're saying you thinking a floostander is better. I'm a heretic when it comes to this kind of thing -- I think you can get more bang for the buck with a "bookshelf" type speaker. You're going to have a sub handling the low stuff so I'd go for the speaker you'd get the best < 80hz sound out of and I'd argue that's usually going to be a bookshelf rather than a floorstander, at least in the budget area.


Whoa whoa sorry but I never said that! I said "I *want *to do floor standing front speakers", for 2 reasons and one is contrary to what you said. I think they would fit in better than a bookshelf on a stand and as GranteedEV said, they will blend in better. I know that bookshelfs will be better to fit in budget but I'm looking at long haul. Might be a 2.1 to begin with, but it will be a 5.1 soon enough. 



JCD said:


> I'm not sure if I missed it, but I'd look at an Onkyo receiver instead. I think they're getting more love than Marantz or Sony these days.


Owned an old Marantz relic years ago when I was a kid (prob 12-14) and kick myself in rear cause I got rid of it  But Marantz makes a of a product hands down, you can debate the Marantz vs Onkyo just as well you could the bookshelf vs tower debate I think. But actually looked at the A4L site and have changed my tune to a refurbed Onkyo, either the 807 or 707 will prob be the ticket. Seems like a good bang for the buck!


And yes I take everything you all tell me and read and read and research cause I want to do this right and I appreciate views from all angles! It's nothing I'm going to buy tomorrow so I have time to read, research and have great conversation over. Oh yes I did get ahold of the radio shop nearby that I forgot about (emailed them actually) and their response to me was they sell Pold Audio, so I guess that the only brand lol


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

You won't go wrong if you pick up an SR5005 or an acessories4less SR5004 (although the 5004 doesn't have 3D support). Marantz, Denon, and Emotiva IMO make some of the better electronics right now. I'd definitely steer clear of the sony though.

And regarding 5.1 vs 7.1...
I'd sooner get 5.2 or 5.4 than 7.1. 7.1 is nice to have, but not a big deal.


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> First of all, a crossover isn't a brick wall filter. A speaker that can play down to 50 or 60hz will blend more smoothly with a subwoofer than one which barely extends to 75hz. Both can be crossed at 80hz but the former will have no problems integrating whereas you might find yourself getting better integration at 100hz or even 120hz crossover points. It's just the nature of crossovers... you give yourself more flexibility the lower you can extend.
> 
> Second there's a matter of output. Sure, a bookshelf will suffice for low level listening, but a floorstander will not only be more efficient, but usually they have more drivers and thus are capable of more output. What's the point in having a sub that does 110db @ 60hz if your 2-driver bookshelf distorts @ 100hz at 97db? The dynamics won't be a seemless blend. Truth is, most bookshelves try to get midbass out of 4 and 5.25 inch drivers.. by nature they'll need more excursion (and thus distortion) around frequencies like 200hz and 300hz than say, a 3-way tower with three 8 inch mid bass drivers.
> 
> ...


Id say in most cases you are correct, but don't think that it applies to *all* bookshelfs. I think my bookshelfs would make you change your mind about what a bookshelf can do, they might also make you change your speakers. Yes they are less sensitive, but they can output as much as some towers I have heard from B&W, Paradigm, PSB, Energy, and others. I have had these on a 40 watt Octave V40SE and they filled a 1600 sq ft demo room to the point that you had to struggle to hear the person next to you talking.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

callas01 said:


> Id say in most cases you are correct, but don't think that it applies to *all* bookshelfs. I think my bookshelfs would make you change your mind about what a bookshelf can do, they might also make you change your speakers. Yes they are less sensitive, but they can output as much as some towers I have heard from B&W, Paradigm, PSB, Energy, and others. I have had these on a 40 watt Octave V40SE and they filled a 1600 sq ft demo room to the point that you had to struggle to hear the person next to you talking.


The Dynaudio excite? it's 87db sensitive. With 40 watts of amplification, even being generous, you won't drive them to reference level dynamics. No offense but that's pure anecdote and doesn't really say much.


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## Theresa (Aug 23, 2010)

From what I've read lately, the Dynaudio and Focals, at least in their low-end speakers, have a very poor motor and therefore much distortion. With a $2000 budget one could build a very nice set of speakers. Check out the Zaph Audio site. I personally would like to have ScanSpeaks all around but with their better drivers even DIY would be more than $2000 without the sub. SEAS makes some very fine drivers too. If you want to go Chinese then there are all the speakers that PE sells (a slight generalization). All are available in kits whether from PE or Madisound and require the minimum of skills, such as I have. I personally couldn't construct a speaker cabinet if my life depended on it.
As for electronics, I just went on a buying binge and bought a great deal of Emotiva equipment and it makes the sound of my old Yamaha DSP-A1 pale in comparison. I have never heard a receiver of any price produce sound as nice as this setup.


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> The Dynaudio excite? it's 87db sensitive. With 40 watts of amplification, even being generous, you won't drive them to reference level dynamics. No offense but that's pure anecdote and doesn't really say much.


The Octave is a $5000 Integrated Tube Amp, connected to the Octave Black Box coming off a T+A CD Player, Id say $10-15000 worth of equipment is enough to power a $1600 pair of bookshelfs to full dynamics. I have also heard my Excites on a T+A CD player and T+A Pre-pro and dual Mono block A1530 poweramps which I believe are 300 or 500 wpc, a setup which costs about $20-30000. 

Likewise on the little Octave, I have heard Totem Winds, Sttafs, Wilson Sophias, Wison Duettes, T+A speakers, Amphion Prios, Dali Ikons and Mentors speakers, Dynaudio Contour S5.4s, S3.4s, Confidence C1s, Focus 220 MK1, Excite X32s and my X16s. I have also heard many of these speakers on the T+A setup listed above also. What that Octave does is simply amazing with 40x2 watts. Is it as good as the T+A setup, NO, but for the price and its abilities its amazing. 

What the Octave 40 did with the C1s low-end slam and smooth ultra high high-end, while maintaining a superb mid-range sounded so amazing my dealer sold 2 pairs of C1s and 3 Octaves at his open house.

You can call it an anecdote or whatever you wish, but I am telling you that you have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you go find a dealer and listen to one yourself.


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

Theresa said:


> From what I've read lately, the Dynaudio and Focals, at least in their low-end speakers, have a very poor motor and therefore much distortion. With a $2000 budget one could build a very nice set of speakers. Check out the Zaph Audio site. I personally would like to have ScanSpeaks all around but with their better drivers even DIY would be more than $2000 without the sub. SEAS makes some very fine drivers too. If you want to go Chinese then there are all the speakers that PE sells (a slight generalization). All are available in kits whether from PE or Madisound and require the minimum of skills, such as I have. I personally couldn't construct a speaker cabinet if my life depended on it.
> As for electronics, I just went on a buying binge and bought a great deal of Emotiva equipment and it makes the sound of my old Yamaha DSP-A1 pale in comparison. I have never heard a receiver of any price produce sound as nice as this setup.


I would love to read what you read. can you pm me links or tell me where to go to read it. I have had my speakers for a while and have not had any poor experiences, but I would like to know if there is something that I need to be aware of.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

callas01 said:


> The Octave is a $5000 Integrated Tube Amp, connected to the Octave Black Box coming off a T+A CD Player, Id say $10-15000 worth of equipment is enough to power a $1600 pair of bookshelfs to full dynamics. I have also heard my Excites on a T+A CD player and T+A Pre-pro and dual Mono block A1530 poweramps which I believe are 300 or 500 wpc, a setup which costs about $20-30000.


And how much you paid for them has what to do with anything? 40 watts is 40 watts. Actually it's less... as that is a 4 ohm rating and most amplifiers are rated at 8 ohms impedance.



> Likewise on the little Octave, I have heard Totem Winds, Sttafs, Wilson Sophias, Wison Duettes, T+A speakers, Amphion Prios, Dali Ikons and Mentors speakers, Dynaudio Contour S5.4s, S3.4s, Confidence C1s, Focus 220 MK1, Excite X32s and my X16s. I have also heard many of these speakers on the T+A setup listed above also. What that Octave does is simply amazing with 40x2 watts. Is it as good as the T+A setup, NO, but for the price and its abilities its amazing.


What it does? It does what all tubes do... distort sound to make it more pleasing to some people's ears. You may prefer that to a realistic sound and be willing to waste thousands of dollars for it, but that doesn't prove its abilities. 

The dynaudio excite x16 is 87db/2.83v/m sensitive. FACT. Dynaudio themself state this.
The Octave 40SE is 40w into 4 ohms. 1w into 4 ohms is 2v. 1w into 8ohms is 2.83v, so we see that we should be looking at the octaves abilities into 8 ohms, not 4 ohms, to know how much voltage it's going to produce. Conservatively you could say 20w, which would give this amplifier full credit for doubling down into a lower impedance load. More realistically I'll say 30w. It's 30w of power. That's electricity being pushed and pulled by the tubes. Electricity that is convered to acoustic energy by the speaker. But to be really skeptical of the octave, i'll go ahead and even assume that it's an amp uncapable of more current into a lower impedance, and thus we'll say that into 8 ohms, it's also capable of 40 watts, which would actually be pathetic. But just for you I'm being generous into its abilities. I didn't even mention that they listed that 40 watts as a peak power rating (LOL!)

Reference levels peak as high as 105db from each speaker. That is, not two speakers running the same mono signal, as each speaker will have its own signal.

Sitting 1 m away, even giving the speaker the benefit of a boundary, 40 watts would drive it to 106db. Hey, was i wrong?

No... no one sits 1m away from a speaker in a living room. 9 feet is far more realistic. That all of a sudden drops it all the way down to 97.2db. To get to 105 db at this listening distance, you would need an amplifier capable of 240w into 8 ohms. Why into 8 ohms if it's a 4 ohm speaker? Because voltage drivers a speaker, not power. The 240w into 8 ohms means 43.8 volts unclipped peaks leaving the amplifier. into a 4 ohm load that would be 480w, although most amplifiers can't do that either realisticlly, simply because of the consequences of the increased current.

If you disagree with the above paragraph then you disagree with the way a loudspeaker works... with facts. Now if you're saying "yeah, they can get loud, but within reason, not reference level loud" then you're disagreeing with what you said earlier, as most elite B&W towers for example _can_ get reference level loud. That brings things right back to what you were saying being anecdotal and unsubstantiated with respect to the merits of a bookshelf vs a tower. 

Being a tube you may enjoy the even order harmonics once the amplifier is outside of its operating range but that does not mean anything with regards to either the speaker's ability or the amplfiier's ability. My standards for amplification and speakers are based on actual testing, and basic physics, not anecdote and going to dealers and listening to overpriced speakers on overpriced tube amps on overpriced wire with overpriced sources and thinking that's what hi-end means.



> What the Octave 40 did with the C1s low-end slam and smooth ultra high high-end, while maintaining a superb mid-range sounded so amazing my dealer sold 2 pairs of C1s and 3 Octaves at his open house.


And your point is? Just because it sells means what? Bose sells too.



> You can call it an anecdote or whatever you wish, but I am telling you that you have no idea what you are talking about. I suggest you go find a dealer and listen to one yourself.


Trust me, I know a lot more about what I'm talking about than you seem to know about what you're talking about. It's not a device capable of _magic_. *I don't, and won't, go to dealerships to listen to amps* because

A) All well designed solid state amps within their limits handling a load within their capabilities will sound the same. Whether they cost 40 000 or 400.
B) All tube amps by nature have high distortion, and regardless of whether this is pleasing or not, I've got no interest in underpowered, overpriced high-maintenence amplifiers whose claim to fame is the opposite of its function. I'll leave the tubes to the producers who use it to make music sound better, and leave the reproduction to my electronics to be done properly.
C) I refuse to buy or build a speaker with low impedance dips and sharp phase angles anyways, so I don't need some overpriced overbuilt amplifier, solid state or not. My next speaker will hopefully be an analog active bi-amped system using 50 or 90 watt hypex modules. So even if a solid state amp can't quite deal with the ridiculously tough to drive loads of various passive commercial loudspeakers, it would be inconsequential to my ears as I simply wouldn't buy a poorly engineered speaker like that.



> I would love to read what you read. can you pm me links or tell me where to go to read it. I have had my speakers for a while and have not had any poor experiences, but I would like to know if there is something that I need to be aware of.


I'm sure it's tough to isolate between all the tube distortion you're probably hearing.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

Ok so found out what is sold around me.....

One dealer tells me he sells Polk Audio

Other dealer Paradigm, Focal, Vandersteen, and Episode

So basically I have high end.... or I have Best Buy quaility around me that I can listen to. I have a couple people that have said Episodes (700 and a 650 series have been thrown at me) and EMP.......


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

Personally i would go to the Paradigm/ Focal dealer i think you will get better service from an authorized dealer as going to BestBuy your just getting some kid selling stuff.


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## callas01 (Oct 24, 2010)

First off.... man, it must have been pick on me day... 

thanks for the physics lesson. I understand how SPL works and blah blah blah. I thought the original comment was about Dynamics, not earth shattering SPL. Perhaps I miss understood the conversation. Dyn doesn't even rate their speakers to 105 dbs. They stop at 100 I believe. So if that was the convo topic, I missed that. However, what I was trying to convey before being crucified was that at 40 watts there was very good dynamics. I personally am not trying to bleed out the the eardrums of my kids at home.

lastly, I don't own a tube amp, I cant afford any. Im not in that price range. I don't hear distortion from my sony on my X16s, but I never turn it up past -14 dbs anyways... However I would love to get a Marantz or Integra, probably the later, and maybe an Outlaw ext amp. But we shall see.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

Anyone have any thoughts on something like this...

http://www.emptek.com/special_impserie51_pkg3.php

or http://www.emptek.com/special_ef50t.php


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## Theresa (Aug 23, 2010)

If Best Buy has anything that I know is good, and I don't, I would go in and buy. But... I would go in knowing that I knew more than anyone who works there. Thats true about most retailers, including speaker ones. I am self-taught and know a great deal. I don't fall for the whole cable thing, its nonsense, so I am bothered when I go into retailers and they try to con me into buying expensive cables. High end dealers are especially like this. They either don't know anything beyond selling or they are con men pushing $20 pieces of wires and connectors for hundreds of dollars. Electricity and electronics are not that complex that people shouldn't realize this.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

bigk_54 said:


> Anyone have any thoughts on something like this...
> 
> http://www.emptek.com/special_impserie51_pkg3.php
> 
> or http://www.emptek.com/special_ef50t.php


THe speakers are awesome, especially the impression series. 

I'd still look into a different sub though, as even if it's got good clean tight output, the sub does not have home theater level extension. It might be a useful sub for cleaning up room nodes if you can level match, as it has DSP limiting so pairing it with a stronger sub should work.


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## IrishStout (Nov 12, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> THe speakers are awesome, especially the impression series.
> 
> I'd still look into a different sub though, as even if it's got good clean tight output, the sub does not have home theater level extension. It might be a useful sub for cleaning up room nodes if you can level match, as it has DSP limiting so pairing it with a stronger sub should work.


How would you compare those to these?
http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sts01.cfm Specifically the 5.0 Christmas Sale..

Just curious...

Cheers,

Irish Stout


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

It looks like a great speaker, but I'd want to see an impedance graph of it before pulling the proverbial trigger. The reason I say that is because of my observations on the step-up MxS-02 series. Read my observations here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/svsound/36223-m-series-02-speakers.html


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## Theresa (Aug 23, 2010)

I forgot to say that they make great speaker stands for my monitor sized cabinets. I would really consider getting 2 very good drivers, and 2 suitable boxes and put them together yourself. Subs are the easiest type of speaker for DIY. You don't need to flush mount the drivers.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> THe speakers are awesome, especially the impression series.
> 
> I'd still look into a different sub though, as even if it's got good clean tight output, the sub does not have home theater level extension. It might be a useful sub for cleaning up room nodes if you can level match, as it has DSP limiting so pairing it with a stronger sub should work.


Thanks for the input! I actually read some good things about the towers then found that pkg deal. I'm personally a velodyne man, love them, have had 3 of them now! But for 125.$ can't beat the sub I figured. Could use it as my other .2 I figured if nothing else


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

IrishStout said:


> How would you compare those to these?
> http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sts01.cfm Specifically the 5.0 Christmas Sale..
> 
> Just curious...
> ...


SVS makes quite good Speakers that would make for an excellent choice. Their Subwoofers are some of the best out there.
Cheers,
JJ


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

Jungle Jack said:


> SVS makes quite good Speakers that would make for an excellent choice. Their Subwoofers are some of the best out there.
> Cheers,
> JJ


I was looking at one of their series of speakers, seriously 7 bills for a center channel!? I can see Paradigm or Focal's TOP end..... are these speakers really that good?!


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

bigk_54 said:


> I was looking at one of their series of speakers, seriously 7 bills for a center channel!? I can see Paradigm or Focal's TOP end..... are these speakers really that good?!


Dude, Focal's top end stereo speaker retails for $180,000/pr and Paradigm's flagship stereo speaker runs around $5000/pr...

SVS speakers seem well engineered, although they ultimately suffer the drawbacks of all passive speakers. Everything about the data sheet shows an excellent speaker I would love to own provided adequate amplification. 

In fact I'd be shocked to see a brand like paradigm or focal to be so confident in their product to show these advanced specifications(perhaps the Focal SM-11 but that's a pro monitor not a Hi fi speaker like the Grande Utopia.. when I say focal i think Focal Hi Fi). Most Hi Fi Brick & Mortar brands rely on "pleasing the auditioner" and often compromise their design process in doing so. SVS speakers on the other hands focus on recreating a source material as well as possible for commercial monopole passive box speakers, at least in their price range. I don't mean to take away from Paradigm, Focal, B&W, or any other brand. This is all about SVS, and it looks like a fantastic speaker with the kind of attention to speaker design principles that you normally only find from the most respectable companies and the most skilled DIYers. The only Brick and Mortar Hi Fi company I truly trust as far as design principles, FWIW, is Harman. Even then, despite all their research and development, pretty much _everything_ below their flagship, the Revel Ultima line, has some clearly questionable design goals. That's not to say there aren't other great B&M brands, IE RBH, Paradigm Signature, PMC, ATC, Magnepan etc but the thing about harman that stands out is all those white papers they release. Those other companies may require a 3rd party review to even get some measurements. Harman brands are the leader in openly showing the fruit of their labours; their research into speaker design. That's what brings me back to SVS, they've openly shown many vital details about their MTS line and it looks excellent, and yet they've also shown us things that can help us evaluate whether it's a good purchase (with that kind of impedance for example one would need to buy a high current amplifier). It's all about Open-ness. 

Now if it fits your preferences or not, is an unknown. Some people love overemphasised mid bass. Others find forward treble to be infatuating. Others still want the treble rolled off and the mids to be forward. More people still want to hear cabinet resonances add warmth to bass. People are so accustomed to listening to speakers that they don't really consider what a speaker SHOULD be designed for. SVS designs their speakers the right way. Whether they're the best speaker i've ever heard is unlikely. But a great value speaker? Most certainly.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> Dude, Focal's top end stereo speaker retails for $180,000/pr and Paradigm's flagship stereo speaker runs around $5000/pr....


Ok DUDE I may have over stated myself (well I know I did) but the point was a center speaker for almost as much as some of the mid range brands are selling a 3 driver tower speaker for. Obvioulsy all these companies have a rediculously high $$ speaker available! So I was speaking of the top brands as a whole, NOT their TOP TOP TOP of the line dollar value, their products might range from 1000$ to 180,000$ but where is the bulk of their price range? NOT 180,000$



GranteedEV said:


> Whether they're the best speaker i've ever heard is unlikely. But a great value speaker? Most certainly.


But this is what I was getting after.....


I'm here on this great site looking for advice for home speakers. I have the knowledge to build one of a car audio system (have near 8-10g in one in the drive) but when it comes to a home system, I'm out to lunch! I know the process of where and how things should sound, just don't know what will fit my application and what is best bang for the buck. The cobbled system in our living room I have sounds great with 3 diff brands of speakers, but I want this one to rock and sound GREAT!


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

> Ok DUDE I may have over stated myself (well I know I did) but the point was a center speaker for almost as much as some of the mid range brands are selling a 3 driver tower speaker for. Obvioulsy all these companies have a rediculously high $$ speaker available! So I was speaking of the top brands as a whole, NOT their TOP TOP TOP of the line dollar value, their products might range from 1000$ to 180,000$ but where is the bulk of their price range? NOT 180,000$


lol. Well in the case of Paradigm, I'd say the monitor series would be their lower tier series, and I guess the Studio 60 (or perhaps the Studio 100) would be their mid level speaker equivalent to the SVS M series. The Paradigm center channel would be the cc 590

The MSRP on the CC 590 is $950

Now with that said I personally prefer the CC 590's WT/M/W center channel design over SVS' MTM center channel design, as the former will have better horizontal off axis response by nature. That still doesn't necessarily prove one being a better speaker than the other mind you, but it does show that SVS isn't charging anything other-worldly.



> I'm here on this great site looking for advice for home speakers. I have the knowledge to build one of a car audio system (have near 8-10g in one in the drive) but when it comes to a home system, I'm out to lunch! I know the process of where and how things should sound, just don't know what will fit my application and what is best bang for the buck. The cobbled system in our living room I have sounds great with 3 diff brands of speakers, but I want this one to rock and sound GREAT!


 well the SVS and EMp Teks are certainly going to sound great as shown by their fundamental design principles (actually I own the e55ti's)  Another consideration may be to build a Zaph 5.5tt although I don't know how you feel about DIY.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

GranteedEV said:


> well the SVS and EMp Teks are certainly going to sound great as shown by their fundamental design principles (actually I own the e55ti's)  Another consideration may be to build a Zaph 5.5tt although I don't know how you feel about DIY.


Im actually leaning toward the EMP's! Until I started looking on here NEVER heard of them! But the more I read the more I read good things about them. I don't wanna do the DIY, I want it built and ready to rock! And I really like the price on the EMP's as well. I'd much rather go with a Paradigm or Focal or ... but seriously what I can buy for 2g is my biggest interest!


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

bigk_54 said:


> Im actually leaning toward the EMP's! Until I started looking on here NEVER heard of them! But the more I read the more I read good things about them. I don't wanna do the DIY, I want it built and ready to rock! And I really like the price on the EMP's as well. I'd much rather go with a Paradigm or Focal or ... but seriously what I can buy for 2g is my biggest interest!


The focals and paradigms will sound rather different from more neutral speakers like the EMPs and SVSs. Both brands have a forward top end. In that scenario you might want to look into some Aperion 5Ts.. they're a bit more on the forward side IMO.


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## bigk_54 (Nov 26, 2010)

If I have time I am going to a place this weekend.....

Monitor 7's
CC-370
ADP-190 (I think they were)

Anyone thoughts?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

bigk_54 said:


> If I have time I am going to a place this weekend.....
> 
> Monitor 7's
> CC-370
> ...


Hello,
I am a huge fan of Paradigm. Monitor 7's were the first pair of real Speakers I owned starting my A/V Obsession and they will always hold a special place in my heart. They really are great Speakers.


The Center Channel and Surrounds are excellent as well. Excellent choice on the CC-370. The Center Channel is the lynchpin for an excellent HT and Purchasing the best possible is always the way to go. I truly look forward to reading your findings. I really think you will be quite pleased with the Sound Quality.
Cheers,
JJ


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