# Room EQ with satellite + full range combination.



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi shacksters,

I've been using REW for some years now, with great results.

In the past I've been using 5 KEF 2005 satellite's(eggs) and a BK monolith subwoofer. When I look at this combination now, I realize this is pretty straight forward EQ. I had the crossover at 80 Hz for all speakers. And I EQ'd the sub from about 15 to 80 Hz. Job done.

In my recent search for more bass and stereo soundstage, I bought me a couple of KEF floorstanders, the Q11. Which are great, but I get the feeling that these are going to be harder to integrate because I use a different crossover for the mains now(40 Hz). The KEF Q11's are rated at 35 Hz. And taking a measurement confirmed this. I could also select full band for my mains, but I feel this would not get me optimal results.

So my system now consists of: Q11(left and right mains)
Eggs(center, and left/right rears)
Bk Monolith(Subwoofer. 
Onkyo ts-xr 607 amp.
BFD 1124

Should I take a different approach when I get to work with this combination?, Maybe first EQ the bottom end for the eggs, and at a later time start integrating the Q11's?, and see what happens in the bass department when 2 (almost) full range channels are introduced?.

Any advice would be well appreciated.

Dimitri
The netherlands


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Generally you still run your mains at 80Hz some will drop that down to 60Hz but with most receivers including the 607 you can have a different crossover point assigned to your surrounds than your mains. You dont really want to send to much low information to your mains because that will put a strain on the receivers amp.


----------



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Isn't it a bit of a shame to not use the Q11's bass performance?.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Dimitri_ISF said:


> Isn't it a bit of a shame to not use the Q11's bass performance?.


Not if you can do better. Remember, positioning the main speakers for optimum imaging will almost always put them in disadvantageous positions for best bass. That's one of the advantages of a subwoofer: You set is up for best bass because that is all it must do.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Agreed^^
The sub will almost always do a better job handling the lows due to its design. Even the best tower speakers rarely go lower than 20Hz and movies go much lower than that.


----------



## stab6902 (Jul 27, 2010)

I usually run my towers crossed over at 80 hz as well for HT. When I am listening to music, I listen in "stereo direct," which turns off the receiver's internal crossover, and I often leave the sub off since there's rarely any musical content down below my towers' f3. I too struggled with the concept of buying towers with good low frequency response when it's really not needed for HT. I tried all the different combinations (all crossover frequencies at 40, 60, and 80 hz; towers full range, 40, and 60 hz with sub set at 80 hz, etc) and arrived at the conclusion that an 80 hz crossover for everything is the way to go in HT. I couldn't really notice (by ear, I'm just starting with REW) the towers' additional low frequency impact when they were crossed over lower than the sub, so I am currently running 80 hz all the way around to make it easier on my receiver. 

But, since this generally is the case, I too honestly don't understand what benefits a big tower speaker has over smaller bookshelves in a home theater environment (besides presumably better efficiency). I am glad I have my towers for music, but for home theater I am not convinced they are worth the cost. As the OP states, it seems like a shame to "throw away" the towers' LF output.

I would also like some opinions on this point from other more experienced forum members.


----------



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Thanks,

I'll trie the 80 Hz approach first then.

Trie to EQ the sub as much as possible, and see what happens when I lower the X-over for my mains. See if it introduces any problems. At this moment I like the sound better with a somewhat lower X-over for the mains(50-60 Hz). 

I'll give all ways a trie and let you guys know what my findings are. 

:T


----------



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi,

It's been a week of trial and error...mostly the latter.

I guess I need EQ for my mains. I took some measurements of my mains response.

It shows about the same behaviour as my sub did before the BFD. Big surprise:hissyfit:

Can somebody recommend some affordable kind of EQ that will work well?. And will filter out those peaks?. It seems I even have one at 80 Hz. So an 80 Hz Crossover isn't going to work either because the Q11's deliver a lot of excess SPL in that region too. 

Any advice on some EQ system would be very appreciated(analogue or digital), preferably for both speakers in one box.

Thanks,

Dimitri

EDIT: Is it even possible to add an external equalizer to my onkyo 607?


----------



## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

Are you using the Audyssey 2EQ system in your TX-SR607? When you ran Audyssey setup with the new speakers, where did it calculate the crossover? 

I'm guessing that you are seeing a more even response above 100Hz because the Audyssey 2EQ filters have higher resolutions the higher the frequency; at the low end it does very broad corrections. I saw something similar with peaky and uneven response of my large Klipsch floor speakers at the low end, and tried even higher crossover values, 90Hz, 100Hz, 110Hz, ... In my room, I currently get the most even response with the crossover at 100Hz. 

I don't see any pre-outs on the back of the SR607, so I don't believe you can add an external equalizer, even if you found a suitable product. You would need a receiver with line level preouts, a multi channel equalizer, and a separate amplifier. 

Bill


----------



## weverb (Aug 15, 2008)

laser188139 said:


> You would need a receiver with line level preouts, a multi channel equalizer, and a separate amplifier.


I have been wondering about these requirements for some time now. I had a NAD T754 that had pre-outs (see picture below) with jumpers (on left of image). I am wondering if you could go out of the T754 to an external eq and then back into the T754? I would be very curious to read Wayne's thoughts.

Also, I had three Yamaha YDP2006 parameteric eq's that worked great. Very "clean" sounding.



:nerd:


----------



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi bill,

After running 2EQ on the audessy, I got 40 Hz crossover for the mains and 70 Hz for center/rear.

Dimitri.


----------



## laser188139 (Sep 19, 2009)

So Audyssey is applying its corrections down to 40Hz for the mains. As I mentioned above, when I used REW to measure the difference between Audyssey MultEQ Off and On at the main preouts, its adjustments at the low end were very broad. It wouldn't hurt to try higher crossover frequencies to see if the overall response is better, while verifying by ear whether the sub becomes localizable. 

Bill


----------



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Bill,

I feel really hesitant to use a crossover above 80 Hz.

If I'd do that I'd really rather go back to the eggs and sell the big speakers. The way it is now I can't really comfortably listen to stereo music either, because I get the same room issues when I use the "pure audio" mode on the amp. I would invest in EQ, but in my case it would be complicated.

I talked to a guy who sells studio equipment, he said EQ was possible by sending the audio signal to an equalizer and from the equalizer to the speakers. I didn't really understand so I emailed him back awaiting his response.

Dimitri


----------



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Hi,

The guy talks about a passive equalizer which can be placed between the receiver and the speakers...

Anybody ever heard of this?.

Thanks,

Dimitri.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Dimitri_ISF said:


> Hi,
> 
> The guy talks about a passive equalizer which can be placed between the receiver and the speakers...


The Receiver must have analog pre outs and you would send the audio signal out to an EQ and then to an external amp and then power your speakers using that amp meaning that you would not be using the receivers built in amps for your main front speakers. I have that configuration and it works very well.


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

But a _passive_ equaliser? You could use some passive EQ for basic boundary compensation, for example, but for anything more precise I've never come across a passive scheme. You could not have anything usefully adjustable as the impedance changes from making adjustments would change the whole response. EQ pretty much has to be active if it is to be adjustable.


----------



## Dimitri_ISF (Jun 19, 2010)

Ok,

Thanks for your replies. 

I've gotten some better results now, with the audessy mic further from the wall. I've also turned the overall bass level down one notch(on the amp). Crossover for the mains is at 60 Hz. Corrections at 15/80 Hz I do with the behringer.

I´ll watch a couple of movies and see if I like it.

:T


----------

