# Speaker speaker, what to do?



## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Happy CyberMonday! (Although I missed all the deals...Sony 350Blu-ray for 100.00!!.:wits-end

JBL, Polk, Infinity Primus, Yambeka, Klipsch, and Paragigm...WOWIE!

I guess that's why they have HTiab for Home Theater for Dummies, like me. WHAT! Shoooosh, I did not say that. But, it is a lot easier just to go out and buy everything, except your missing something........uh.........the sound!

I do take credence from what I am told from you all, I appreciate the honesty and candor everyone speaks of. But I am just plain silly stupid on what home theater speakers to buy.
Ok,


This gets more interesting the more I look at potential home theater speakers. I looked at the back of the Powered Sub PSW10, and what did I see?

1) There is a Right and Left LINE IN...

2) Then there is a right and left Speaker level INPUT
and also a right and left Speaker level OUTPUT, then there are a few more switches.....Silly question, what are these in/out for if I hook up the speakers to my Onkyo 705 or 606 receiver?

I'm still sitting on the fence on whether to go with (Polks, RM10 or RM6750) or (JBL ES20, or ES30 Harmon Kardon, but 10.5lbs, and19.5lbs respectively,probably too heavy to hang on the wall) 

Or Infinity Primus Theater Pack II......or some other speaker package.:yikes:

....I guess it boils down to this. Best to get 3-way fronts w/89-91db sensitivity, a center speaker I've been told to match the fronts design,(((without a regular horizontal design config., because the regular loudspeaker design sounds better as a center speaker???? that's what I've heard....I don't know, I don't make this stuff up.)))

Also want to be able to wall mount, so they can't be extremely huge or heavy. Maybe max. height 10", or 11". 

Don't have too much money for high end stuff, but definitely do not want Sony entry level sound either.

My friend across the street has Bravia HTiab, spent about $300.00, and those dinky little speakers are sounding, but you can't tell him that, no, :no: I'd hate to burst his bubble.

Yes, in a perfect world, it would be so very nice to have only have ONE 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1 speaker package to choose from, but sadly, it's not.:thud:

I'm taking all of the suggestions and trying to narrow them down. Going out tomorrow and test drive a few in the sound rooms and maybe,just maybe decide. There is a Paradigm dealer nearby, I'll check it out also, hopefully, if they are good, they are not out of my price range.

Also, I'm rethinking the Onkyo SR606 for the SR705 AVR. :surrender:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi, first of all what is your budget? This ultimately decides what you can get.

You can mount heavy speakers you just need to ancour them properly to a stud in the wall. My surrounds weigh 35lbs and havent come down yet:whistling:
I recommend staying away from the Onkyo 606 and going with a 705 or even an 805. For speakers Have a look at SVS they have some great speaker packages as well as some of the best subs available for the price.


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks Tony,

Is it because the Onkyo 606 is not certified THX, and doesn't have that cool blue light ring around the volume control? I agree, I'm leaning towards the 705,or the 706 anyway. What are the other plus's to help chnage my mind?

Speaking of that, is it true these AVR's have an option to switch the 8-ohm speakers in the 6-ohm speakers input? Another site said that the 805 he has, he's using 6-ohm speakers. What do you use in your system? I thought the NORM today is for 8-ohm speakers. Thanks, :innocent:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

bozobytes said:


> What are the other plus's to help chnage my mind?


The 706 is obviously the newer of the two and seems to be on par with features and power The 705 had some issues with lip sync and the firmware was almost impossible to update. SO if I were you I would go with the 706 over the '05.



> Speaking of that, is it true these AVR's have an option to switch the 8-ohm speakers in the 6-ohm speakers input? Another site said that the 805 he has, he's using 6-ohm speakers. What do you use in your system? I thought the NORM today is for 8-ohm speakers. Thanks, :innocent:


Yes, You can use either 8, 6 or 4 ohm speakers with the 706 and above receivers however you wold have to make sure that you give it lots of breathing room as this will make it run warmer than with 8ohm speakers.
I have fairly large 4ohm tower speakers on my mains and did run it with my 805 for a short time and it had no issues but switched to an external amp just to give my system some extra oomph. 
4ohm speakers are still very common with towers or floor standers as some call them. There is no real difference in sound quality between 4 and 8ohm speakers its just how they are designed generally if they have 2 or more large drivers they will be 4 ohms. A 4ohm speaker requires a more stable amplifier or it can overheat it and damage it. This is where THX certification comes in as this is a way for you to know for sure that it can drive a 4ohm load properly however there are lots of receivers that dont have the THX label on them that are more than capable of doing so. The 606 wont do a 4ohm load stable.


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## Guest (Dec 2, 2008)

If your looking for the best bang for the buck on speakers, I would def. recamend the RBH! I have the RBH SI 740 in walls for my rear right and left and the 1266 SE Stand Ups for the fronts with an MC 414 for the center channel. For the sub I bought the Sunfire Solitaire 12! These speakers all fall just a little outside your budget, but let me say this. I did two years of extensive research before buying my AV commponents and here is what I found. There is what most of us know as high end based on our experience at Best Buy's, Sound Rooms, Ultimate Electronics and so on. These stores all have what they call high end gear for a top dollar price. I almost made the mistake of making these stores the extent of my due dilligence. Then there is High end as you will only find in the custom Home Theater companys. I found a company here in STL that realy helped me to understand the difference. Then there is the designer high end that none of us can afford! Lol There is a guy by the name of Bob who works for Elegant Home Theaters out of St Louis MO. He were the one that showed me the difference between Retail Stores High End and True High End! The difference was night and day and the cost of equiptment were only a little more all things considered. I can tell you this, I am extremly happy with my speakers. The few friends I have with high end Home theaters all weep when they stop by my place! Hope this helps.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bozobytes said:


> This gets more interesting the more I look at potential home theater speakers. I looked at the back of the Powered Sub PSW10, and what did I see?
> 
> 1) There is a Right and Left LINE IN...
> 
> ...


Don't worry about all the connections ...we're here to help.

You can use them, but no at the same time ...they have it there so you have more options to connect everything according to the equipment you own :yes:



> Going out tomorrow and test drive a few in the sound rooms and maybe,just maybe decide. There is a Paradigm dealer nearby, I'll check it out also, hopefully, if they are good, they are not out of my price range.


Don't forget to post your thoughts after the visit ...like you said: is a little confussing when you're looking for speakers, AVR's, subs, etc. but is better to take your time and purchase something good instead of buying something that you'll need to replace in a couple of months because is not what you expected :yes:


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks guys! Welcome to the site Danman213

I went to best Buy and went into their "High End" Speaker room. The guy pointed out that those Line in/out is for the AVR, and those other four Inputs/outputs are for pre-amps. Then he pointed out the monster Line cable with a splitter for both the line Input/ouput for monsters price of $55.00!!!! ....speaking about LOL!:joke:

Some of the brands in there were of course Polk-Audio,and Klipsch..I saw the klipschWB14 bookshelf speaker (espresso color finish to match the new component furniture piece) but their price was $600 a pair! 
I also saw Definitive technology 5.1 speaker system for $800.00,he said the 10" sub was 200w,but the center speaker was so small and funky looking.


To buy as separates...these are better than the $800.00 bundle set because the small Promo800 main's are $145.00 each,but not impressive in sound.
The PromoN1000's 
Mains were $440.00 a pair. 
Surrounds were $440.00 a pair. 
the SubPro1000 for $500.00, and the 
Center CRL2002 for $530.00,
This is about $1900.00!!!! 

They also had Mirage, and yet another expensive $1500.00 for a 5.1 system,but that name escapes me.Sorry.

I never made it to the stand alone small home theater shop yet..he sells all kinds of speakers he rattled off to which I have never heard of like Paradigm to name one. I never heard him say Hsu or SVS, but for his overhead and expenses, I'm thinking he's going to be over the top for me anyway. 

Best Buy does not sell Onkyo, but like the old "Good Guys" electronic stores, they push the Denons,and Yamaha's, along with the high priced Monster cables.

He was also trying to sell me a Yamaha663, instead of the Onkyo 606,or the 705 AVR. (he thought I had my BB credit card :nerd I decided I do not want the higher watt AVR that uses the 4 and 6 ohm speakers, I want something cooler,so I'll use the 8-ohm 606 or 706. 

Another concern is speaker placement. I don't really have room for floorstanders, but maybe have to accommodate this thought because of the way this small room is laid out. Mobile home,double wide,12'x9' TV is on the long wall width wall with a door into the bedroom on the right of that wall. I could hang the speaker in the corner above the door but if I use 18 or 16 wire, it will be hard to hide around the door jam or under the carpet. I could also place the mount on a stud on the left side of the door, and on the wall, fish the wire along side the stud into the hollow wall and hope I could find it somewhere below...or just get the floorstanders. Thanks again guys. :T


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

bozobytes said:


> I decided I do not want the higher watt AVR that uses the 4 and 6 ohm speakers, I want something cooler,so I'll use the 8-ohm 606 or 706.


I'm not sure what your getting at here but anyhow any receiver that does 4 and 6ohms well drive an 8ohm speaker without any issues. The Yamaha 663 is actually a good receiver as well.



> I could hang the speaker in the corner above the door but if I use 18 or 16 wire, it will be hard to hide around the door jam or under the carpet. I could also place the mount on a stud on the left side of the door, and on the wall, fish the wire along side the stud into the hollow wall and hope I could find it somewhere below...or just get the floorstanders. Thanks again guys. :T


I would not use any gauge wire less than 16 and for the mains I would use 14.

I really think buying speakers on line will save you allot of money, The big box stores are over priced and dont always have the best brands. That said you can get deals from time to time and its tough to audition speakers online:whistling: however most good online stores have very good return policies.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bozobytes said:


> I went to best Buy and went into their "High End" Speaker room. The guy pointed out that those Line in/out is for the AVR, and those other four Inputs/outputs are for pre-amps. Then he pointed out the monster Line cable with a splitter for both the line Input/ouput for monsters price of $55.00!!!! ....speaking about LOL!:joke:


So you went to Magnolia ...nice place, I always go there looking for some open box deals (I got my Yamaha RXV 2700 fro 399.99 originally 1200 :whistling

Those four inputs/outputs can be used with the AVR, the difference is that you will connect from the speaker terminal on the AVR to sub and from sub you'll connect the speakers ...but is easy to use the line in (L+R) from the sub output on the AVR :yes:

Like Tony said ...stay away from Monster brand, www.monoprice is the place to get cables and speaker wire ... use the 16 or better the 14 gauge like he said (We'll help you with some ideas to hide the wires :yes




> He was also trying to sell me a Yamaha663, instead of the Onkyo 606,or the 705 AVR. (he thought I had my BB credit card :nerd I decided I do not want the higher watt AVR that uses the 4 and 6 ohm speakers, I want something cooler,so I'll use the 8-ohm 606 or 706.


Yamaha 663 is a good receiver, but Onkyo is a better bang for the buck and has a little more features ...some AVRS can handle 8, 6 or 4 ohms loads, and that doesn't cost extra, so don't worry about getting one of those AVR's.

If you want, you can also look for some used speakers, also take a look on ebay there's always good deals...:T


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

bozobytes said:


> I'm still sitting on the fence on whether to go with (Polks, RM10 or RM6750) or (JBL ES20, or ES30 Harmon Kardon, but 10.5lbs, and19.5lbs respectively,probably too heavy to hang on the wall)
> 
> Also want to be able to wall mount, so they can't be extremely huge or heavy. Maybe max. height 10", or 11".


I have some B-Tech BT77 wall mounts and they will hold up to 55lbs. I have some Klipsch RB81's mounted on them. They weigh about 30lbs and are pretty huge. The RB61 is a nice sounding speaker and run about $500 for a pair. Mated with a good sub and center (RC62) channel they would be impressive. Kef has some nice bookshelves on the market also.

I too have a friend that set up a home theater and bought a $300 Sony HTIB. He brags that it's a 1000W system and it shakes his room. He hasn't been over to see my room yet. I don't know if I want to burst his bubble either...wait a sec I do. I can't wait to see the look on his face when I crank things up and it shakes the whole house.


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

*Re: Speaker speaker,what to do? Svsound?*

Hi and thanks!
I'm asking for ideas on speakers, trying to get away, and steppin' up from the basic Sony THiab sound. I have been looking at Polks (as you can read on prior posts) But a few of you have been recommending a company from Ohio named SVsound.
I went to their website and I was quite impressed with the way it's set up. They might be on the pricey side, but someone named Jack was very, very helpful in explaining their different products. Entry level SBS-01 mains, and improved crossover model SCS-01(m) for larger than my 12'x9' room, and the Subwoofer PB10 or the cylinder sub, the PC12-NSD.

For now, if I start out with a 3.1 channel system>

(2-SBS-01 /Mains) $ 225.00 Pair 
(1 PC12-NSD /Sub) $ 549.00
(1 SCS-01 /Center) $ 185.00 plus shipping, will be about 1,080. 

Other than the expensive entry level Subwoofer, does this sound like a good deal, and what I should expect to pay? 

I know I sound like I work for this company, and it sounds like I have a lot of faith from these speakers I haven't heard yet, so I would like to know if anyone had dealt with this company and are you happy with their speakers.

if you have had them, and do not like them to get something else, please advise what they were. Thank you!


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

You should check out Axiom and HSU if you're looking at the direct to market brands they sell off of their websites.


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

Hello,
Axiom and HSU....ummmm

I only went to the HSU and their price for their entry level "Performance 1" system was almost about half of the 5.1 from SVsound, but is the quality the same or better than the SVsound? (Not to mention you would get an extra speaker with HSU. My room is about 12x9, so I really don't need the 6.1 or 7.1 channel setup. 

I checked the Axiom site, and although they make beautiful stained wood enclosures, they are way out of my budget, which actually is about $600.00 on speakers and the extra cost of the Subwoofer.

So the HSU would be about $499.00 for a 6.1 system, but they only make black. I have an espresso stained component/console I would love to match with the speaker enclosures, but that cost mucho $$$. Do I want a Horned speaker or not?


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I like the HB-1's a bit better than the smaller VT-12's but the VT-12's will still beat the pants off any Sony HTIB. The big difference with the Performance 2 system is that the sub is top notch. All of their products have received positive reviews from many people in the industry. Their subs are regarded as the ultimate in value and performance. I'm sure they could give you a package price on a 5.1 system (expect to save $60-$80).


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

First, and I know I'm going to sound like a total fanboy, but SVS has pretty much the best customer service I've seen. And I've listened to the speakers you were asking about -- and thought they were a great value. My tastes in speakers might be different than yours, so a little auditioning might be a good idea. But if you're itching to pull the trigger, I really like the SVS options. Again, that's just my opinion.


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## jakewash (Nov 29, 2007)

I think you may find the sound quality of the SVS, Axiom, Hsu, Rockets(av123) speakers and subs to be better than the polks you have been looking at, but there is that price differential that you have to pay. Best thing to do is try to find soemone nearby that has some of these ID companies speakers and ask them if you can have an audition. Many of the ID companies have their own web sites and people listed to give auditions or you can post asking about auditions the forum members will direct you in the direction you need to go.

So far as your receiver, chose the one that has the features you want and is the right price for you, Onkyo, Denon, Yamaha, H/K all make good products.


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

TonyVdb, 
To answer your question about my budget...don't laugh...let's put it this way, a typical Sony HTiab system costs less than about $300.00. (includes a DVD upconverter,sub,center and four satellites) Now if I up the stakes a bit, not including an AVR, I was thinking about spending about $500.00 -$700.00...HELLO!....I can hear you all a snickerin', really that's actually more than I want to spend. But also keep in mind this room is only 12 x 9. Asking for the moon, would be finding an espresso stained speaker cabinet to match my console, but I can still you laughing, so i'll put my tail between my legs and scamper away. Seriously, In this economy, there has to be some deals out there.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For a $500-700 budget your simply not going to get a real decent system. Your just getting out of the HTIB range at $700 and even then the sub you get is far to small to really make an impact. 
The Sony HTIB systems are the worst ones as they use strange connections for the speakers and if the DVD player kicks the bucket you have to replace the entire system.
Onkyo make the best HTIB systems for about $650 you can get one thats a real receiver decent speakers and a fairly good sub. The Onkyo 7100 is the best you can do for your price.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

bozobytes said:


> I was thinking about spending about $500.00 -$700.00...In this economy, there has to be some deals out there.


I agree with Tony ...for that budget you can get a better HTIB (not Sony), or you can also go the other route ........buy used :yes:.

There's deals out there (like you said, in this economy some people is getting rid of their used stuff), you can get an AVR and a pair of front speakers to start, and then add more speakers until you complete your system; check ebay, craiglist, etc. ...I got some used speakers to upgrade mine, you can also get new speakers too (look at  this ) ...just buy one pair at a time .....:T


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## bozobytes (Nov 23, 2008)

So from originally thinking about a Sony HTiab, to an Onkyo 706,with speakers from either SVsound.or HSU Research, and now back to the Onkyo 7100, maybe this is what I needed in the first place. The 7100's AVR is the Onkyo 606 to begin with,so without getting a high end THX $488.00 706 AVR, and this systems sub is 290w,maybe this is a way to go. 

All along I thought maybe getting some mounted fronts/rear satellites, a center and a powered sub, to go with a 706 or 806, but why the high powered AVR? The cost is more than I want to spend for a small 12x9 room. So the 7100 price tag maybe it. I just want to run One HDMI from mounted TV to AVR, TimeWarner, and Blu ray to AVR, and be done with it.

Is there anyone with the 7100 that thinks now he/she made a mistake? Ideally, for this small room, I originally thought a sub, a center, two front bookshelfs or mounted satellites and two surround satellites for the sake of not having much room for towers on the back walls. (except maybe the fronts)


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