# Which speakers to get?



## fred1diver (Jan 14, 2009)

K so I've settled on the Onkyo 709 for my receiver, now I need some decent speakers, not sure if I want to go with towers or bookshelves for the front, I'm lost with all the info they give!
I get the range in hz, and also the impedance, but what else are they trying to tell me with all the extra info????
Still debating betewn either a complete set (5.1/7.1) or buying seperate?
I don't want to spend a fortune but I especially dont want to regret my purchase, not sure exactly how much I want to spend either! 
At the moment I have the dinky (they work ok for now) speakers that came with my samsung htib.
At the moment I dont mind keeping the sub and surrounds, but for the fron and center, I want something nice!!!


What do you all think about: harman kardon speakers, infinity, precision acoustics, boston acoustics, jbl... What should I look for??? And what should I stay away from????

FRED


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Well, first thing I'd suggest is to get out there and listen to a few floor standers and a few book shelf speakers. Get an idea of what you like. There are a bunch of good speakers out there and it can be a bit tough to even know where to begin.

As for me, I'd suggest you listen to some speakers from;
PSB
RBH Sound
Revel
Snell Acoustics
SVSound
Ascend Acoustics
Klipsch
Infiniti
Aperion Audio
Dynaudio

and anything else your local shops may carry. Listen to a wide variety of speakers, take your own audio and\or video material that you are familiar with. Tell us what you liked and didn't like and we can help point you to more speakers that you might like. Kinda hard to tell you what is good and what to stay away from because I may love a speaker that you can't stand.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I am 1 billion percent with Mark. I would recommend against a 5.1/7.1 Speaker Package as they are almost universally lacking compared to separate Speakers and Subwoofers. Newegg currently has some absurd deals on Polk Audio Monitor 70 Floorstanding Speakers for $149 (after promo code EMCNJJA25. ($399 MSRP)

They also have the $1000 MSRP Klipsch RW-12d Subwoofer for $299. Add in the Polk Audio CS1 Center Channel for $99 and you would have a 5.1 Package with Towers for Front and Surrounds and a solid Subwoofer for around $700 before Shipping. Still far less than the MSRP on the Subwoofer. Total MSRP on the Package is $2000. I would actually get the larger CS2 Center Channel for just $20 more and it retails for $100 more than the CS1.

While Polk Audio is not my favorite Brand, they do make quality Speakers and these are just phenomenal deals. Especially on the Subwoofer. Funny thing is most 5.1 Speaker in a Box Packages cost around this amount and the Subwoofer is a complete joke on 99% of them. The Loudspeakers tend to be not much better.
Cheers,
JJ


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

This will pancake that Samsung system - NHT
http://www.nhthifi.com/Home-Theater-Absolute-5-1T-System

Also, look at the VS 260 speakers and 325C center - Boston
http://search.vanns.com/sitesearch/search?q=boston+vs
And, the Epik sub
http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html

The Samsung sub, falls short of being a real sub.


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## Quijibo (Feb 8, 2011)

I'd stay away from the precision acoustics.
they're just best buys house brand. I had some, sold them.
if there's 3 words that describe them, it's cheap cheap cheap.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

fred1diver said:


> Still debating betewn either a complete set (5.1/7.1) or buying seperate?


Always buy everything meticulously, and that normally means at least removing the subwoofer from the equation of an "all-inclusive" set.

Here's my suggestion

A pair of these (while there's still some available!!):

http://emptek.com/e55ti_clearance.php

+

Two pairs of inexpensive bookshelf speakers as surrounds:

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-BS...WZE4/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1327260960&sr=8-3

+ two beast subwoofers:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk4.html

:T

Above, is the _equivalent of_ a 7.1 system. However there are two subwoofers, which will lead to a much more even bass response around the room - they will reproduce the same mono information channel but load the room from different locations, improving overall response. There is no center, so all the center channel information will be directed to the Left / Right stereo mains for a "Phantom Center". The surrounds are not overly expensive or even capable of a world of output, but they will get the job done more than respectably well. Overall the system will be dynamic, powerful, and balanced. 

If you play video games, then you may want surrounds with a true matching sonic character. Four of these:

http://emptek.com/e5bi.php

are what I use. For music and movies, the sonic match between the pioneers and EMPs would be perfectly fine in my opinion.

As far as mounting of surround speakers goes, I'm a big fan of Omnimount 20.0 (for wall-mounting) and 20.0C (for ceiling mounting). 

For cabling, there's plenty of options including home depot and ebay. I suggest going to Monoprice.com and picking up some 14awg speaker wire.


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## fred1diver (Jan 14, 2009)

Wow, I'm begining to see the light! Ok so I mean I'm starting to hear the difference in different speakers, now to process all that info and try to make an informed decision at a reasonable price (if that exists!!!). What do you all thijk about bose speakers? Are they as good as they claim???


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

fred1diver said:


> Wow, I'm begining to see the light! Ok so I mean I'm starting to hear the difference in different speakers, now to process all that info and try to make an informed decision at a reasonable price (if that exists!!!). *What do you all thijk about bose speakers? Are they as good as they claim???*


Oh boy, is that ever going to open a can of worms! :bigsmile:

As the owner of a Bose Acoutimass 10 system, I can tell you flat out that you can DEFINITELY do better than Bose. I have not started my speaker choice foray as of yet, but I did have a chance to listen to the Klipsch RF-62 towers at my local American TV. It made me walk out of the store in shame of the sound I am currently getting........


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

fred1diver said:


> Wow, I'm begining to see the light! Ok so I mean I'm starting to hear the difference in different speakers, now to process all that info and try to make an informed decision at a reasonable price (if that exists!!!). What do you all thijk about bose speakers? Are they as good as they claim???


Do you really want to go there? To keep it simple they are weak - and no real sense of live sound.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

I'd also consider the Pioneer loudspeakers designed by Andrew Jones. Real overachievers and getting a lot of excellent buzz across the Internet.

Mains: SP-FS51-LR $200/pair
Center: SP-C21 $80
Surrounds: SP-BS41-LR $160/pair

One Elemental Designs A2-250 subwoofer for $350 or two for $700 would round it out nicely.
You'ld be into a nice 5.1 or 5.2 speaker system for $790 or $1,140, respectively.

http://www.stereophile.com/content/pioneer-sp-bs41-lr-loudspeaker
http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/products/new/649741.html
http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/09/pioneer-shares-affordable-line-of-speakers-snobs-sob/
http://myblog-online.co.uk/2011/03/review-pioneer-sp-fs51-lr-floorstanding-speakers/


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## caper26 (Sep 10, 2010)

fred1diver said:


> K so I've settled on the Onkyo 709 for my receiver, now I need some decent speakers, not sure if I want to go with towers or bookshelves for the front, I'm lost with all the info they give!
> I get the range in hz, and also the impedance, but what else are they trying to tell me with all the extra info????
> Still debating betewn either a complete set (5.1/7.1) or buying seperate?
> I don't want to spend a fortune but I especially dont want to regret my purchase, not sure exactly how much I want to spend either!
> ...


Dude, you are in Canada. Got to Futureshop and get a pair of Energy RC-70 for $999. You will never have to buy another Left or Right again. They originally retailed for around $3K for the pair. I have these and really like them. J'aime ceux-ci.


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## onhope (Jan 23, 2012)

Hi caper26 , I see this very good deal,and good speakers, but I am not in Canada...hic..So how about the JBL L-880? give me your idear? I see it about the same everything except the 91db for JBL,and that one is 95 db.Thanks anyone ell to give me, your thinks?


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## caper26 (Sep 10, 2010)

onhope, I was directing that comment at the original poster.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

onhope said:


> Hi caper26 , I see this very good deal,and good speakers, but I am not in Canada...hic..So how about the JBL L-880? give me your idear? I see it about the same everything except the 91db for JBL,and that one is 95 db.Thanks anyone ell to give me, your thinks?


Hi, while I'm a big fan of JBL's professional LSR lineup, i'm not so sure about their home theater lineup.


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## vettett15 (Jul 1, 2009)

There are enough speaker companies out there to make your head spin. Definitely try and find a dealer near you and just listen to as many as you can. Bring your own material, you will hear a difference between them I promise you. Also when you are listening to these different speakers, take a look around and note what the room looks like and then think about what your room looks like. There can be a big difference on how a speaker sounds between rooms.


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## Ikarius (Nov 22, 2011)

I'll chime in here and note that MartinLogan, previously only a high-end electrostat company, has released a line of speakers called their "Motion" line. I'm *really* impressed with the LX-16s from the motion line, though they run $800 a pair, list. There are also lower-end options in the line. One thing I haven't seen mentioned here- what's your budget for the speakers in this system? We could throw speakers at you all day long, but a budget to work with would help narrow some of the choices. 

Cheers
Ikarius


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## Oktyabr (Jan 31, 2012)

Did I miss it somewhere or did the original poster not include an ideal budget? 

Just my opinions but 7.1 is still overrated. Even the BDs support it carry much more signal in the front 5.1 than the two rears. I would only consider 7.1 IF my budget allowed it and specifically I had a HT room laid out where the majority of sitting would be done "mid field" allowing the rear surrounds to be placed behind your head. If your main sitting is against the opposite wall from your front speakers (like most living rooms are laid out) then I say skip the extra two speakers and spend the cash elsewhere.

For a budget of around $1000 I would highly recommend the Infinity Primus line. I purchased the complete Primus 360 setup several years ago based on sparkling reviews from Stereophile: 
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/605infinity/
http://www.stereophile.com/budgetcomponents/404infinity/

While I haven't heard the new ones yet people I trust say they essentially the same, where it counts.

The more money you have to spend the bigger the options. Last but not least you need to figure out what your constraints are on a subwoofer(s). I'm very partial to M&K's V series 15"ers from the used market, but these like upper shelf offerings from HSU, Klipsch and Velodyne, etc. are massive overkill if you live in a condo, apartment, or in a household where furniture shaking bass is unwelcome... again, another place where money might be better spent elsewhere.

Size of room, allowable sound levels, and budget. Must know factors.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If I were to go past 5.2, it would be for Audyssey DSX and or DTS NEO. That is adding Height or Width Speakers to the front of my Room and not SBL or SBR.
Cheers,
JJ


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## wxthomson (Jan 27, 2012)

I don't think you mentioned a budget but I've read several rave reviews of the GoldenEar Triton Two floor standing speakers. I believe they retail around $2500/pair.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Oktyabr said:


> Just my opinions but 7.1 is still overrated.


Perhaps for movies. However games like Folklore and Uncharted in my experience simply come to life in discrete 7 channel mode.


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## Oktyabr (Jan 31, 2012)

GranteedEV said:


> Perhaps for movies. However games like Folklore and Uncharted in my experience simply come to life in discrete 7 channel mode.


Wrong for me to poke fun at the expense of adding an additional two (or three) rear channels, just for a video game, as I build a $1000+ computer each year for "games" and run a $600 steering wheel and pedals, just for one racing simulator 

I'm not saying that 7.1 isn't useful, it just hasn't been developed and marketed enough that... every bluray demands it or is lacking without it. Some day it will likely get there but it hasn't yet. Cable and sat networks still don't offer anything over 5.1 so a few select video games and BDs are really the only things that can truly benefit from it.

I tried to make this point earlier, not to entirely discourage the purchase of a 7.1 system, but only to express the idea that on a given budget those extra channels might be money better spent elsewhere. And in a room that doesn't allow proper placement of those extra rear channels it's really a moot point anyway.


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## Ikarius (Nov 22, 2011)

On the GoldenEars;
I also have heard wonderful reviews of them, and purchasers raving about them. I've also heard a fair number of folks mentioning that they're fairly placement sensitive. I don't know whether they are more placement sensitive than other speakers, or if that can be chalked up to the crowd who are aware of them and purchasing them already.

A few background notes;
The GoldenEar Tritons and the MartinLogan "Motion" series speakers are using very similar (if not identical) tweeters that MartinLogan calls "HVFR" - High Velocity Folded Ribbon. This is a twist on ribbon tweeters, which have been around for a long time, they're basically a thin film being vibrated. in the HVFR variant, the thin film is folded up like an accordian, which allows it to move more air for less power. This is not new technology- it was created 30 years ago and known as a "Heil AMT tweeter", however the patent on it recently expired, and a number of companies ( I've also seen some new Emotiva powered monitors using it) have started making speakers using these tweeters.

Based on the reviews & excitement generated by a number of these speakers, as well as the reputations of the companies making them, it seems to me that these tweeters are likely a pretty nice technology.

On the background of GoldenEar- the main fellow behind GoldenEar (Sandy Gross) hails from Definitive Tech, where he already had quite a reputation.

Just a bit of background info


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## wxthomson (Jan 27, 2012)

Ikarius said:


> On the GoldenEars;
> 
> On the background of GoldenEar- the main fellow behind GoldenEar (Sandy Gross) hails from Definitive Tech, where he already had quite a reputation.
> 
> Just a bit of background info


Sandy has had quite a career. Before co-founding Definitive Technology, he was one of the co-founders of Polk.


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## Drakul (Jan 29, 2012)

You guys are talking about some of the speakers I'm considering. I'm doing a 7.1 movie/game in my batcave with a Denon 4810CI.

I'm debating between the MartinLogan Motion line (ESL,FX...), the GoldenEar Triton 2 and the Paradigm Studio 60...


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## Ikarius (Nov 22, 2011)

Hmm. I'd consider the ML ElectroMotion ESLs and GoldenEar Tritons more as "music" speakers than HT speakers. They should serve well in a dual-purpose system, but if the system is purely aimed @ HT/gaming, I'd do a lot of listening before spending the money on either of those as mains.

A couple of notes; in the ML line, the FX and FX2 are great surround speakers, but I'd consider them more targeted @ 5.1 systems than 7.1. They both feature dual tweeters aimed in two different directions in order to be less directional. I'd expect that design to work superbly for 5.1 systems, but it seems like overkill for a 7.1 system. If you're looking at the ML ESL, I'd strongly consider an outboard amp, rather than trying to drive them directly from an integrated AVR. If your room/setup allows it, you could actually consider ML LX-16s for surround & surround rear. Also, ML is bringing out some new towers in their Motion line which I've heard fantastic things about; if you hold out for a couple of months, I suspect you'd be extremely happy with those for L/R mains.

I looked over the GoldenEar line, and I am having a bit of trouble figuring out what I'd be looking at for a full HT system. They have a couple of HT packages, but neither of those packages include the Tritons, and the surround speakers included are a "thin" design which I'm not a fan of. They might sound great, but I'd have to sit down @ a GoldenEar dealer and listen to a full GoldenEar HT system before buying in to that route.

Paradigm makes speakers which are very well regarded, and you shouldn't have a lot of difficulty finding a solid combination of voice-matched speakers to build a full HT system from. I didn't spend any time looking at their offerings when I made my choices this time around, so I cannot comment much more than that.

Lastly, one note would be- pay attention to the dimensions of the center channel speakers offered by ML & GoldenEar. Luckily for me, the ML EM C2 center I decided I wanted is actually fairly reasonable dimension wise, but several centers from ML & one from GoldenEar are *very* wide, and if you have a normal AV stand for your TV, you may find it impossible to fit the center channel in the space provided.

Good luck, and let us know how the listening goes!


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## Drakul (Jan 29, 2012)

I'm actually building my HT right now (you can see the progress in my sig) so center width is no concern since it'll be below the screen.

I didn't realize that the ML and GE were consider more music speakers than movie. Since I won't be playing any kind of pure audio in that room that reshuffles my considerations.


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## Ikarius (Nov 22, 2011)

What sort of budget are you looking at for the speakers & electronics? After taking a look at your room, I'd definitely recommend you look at an AVR which has preamp outs, with separate amplification stage. Emotiva makes separate amps which have received very good reviews and are very reasonably priced. I also suspect you'd do well to go dual subwoofer.

When I noted I considered the ML EM ESL and GoldenEar Triton 2 as more "music" speakers, that was coming from the standpoint that for a pure HT system, you may want to spend more on getting things "right" for all speakers, and less on the L/R main speakers. Seeing the room you're working on and what you're doing in there, that may be less of a consideration than I thought. Of course, listening yourself would be the key.


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## Drakul (Jan 29, 2012)

The room is about 18x14. I'm almost set on getting a HW30 ceiling mounted at 14' with a Carada BW (possibly 118") at seating position about 12'.

My budget for speakers, I would say is about $5,000. I definitely want good LCR but I'm not going to skimp on the surrounds either.
For my sub I was thinking about the HSU VTF-2 or 3, just one for now but possibly double it in the future.

Of course ideally I'm going to try and listen to them but I'm trying to narrow it down a bit before I spend 12h in a store. Plus sound treatment will never be the same so it's never perfect either way.


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## Ikarius (Nov 22, 2011)

In your position, I suspect I'd seriously look at going either 7.2 or 9.2 and using ML LX-16s for front, front height, surround, surround rear, and an ML EM-C2 center. I'd probably look at a pair of HSU VTF3 MK4 subwoofers, and an Emotiva XPA-5 to handle amplification for front, center, and surround channels. I'd let the denon you have power the front height and surround rear channels.

With that size of room, for HT & gaming, I don't think I'd drop big money on the front L/R speakers. I'd go for more speakers rather than spending more on the front L/R. The center channel will actually be more important than the front L/R channels for most movie & gaming content.

You could also go for a similar approach within the Paradigm line; I'd spend some time with Studio 10/20s, and I'd probably be taking a close look at the Studio 590 CC.

The one thing I'm not terrifically happy with about the ML LX-16s is that they are rear ported, so you really don't want them up against a wall. If that's going to be a placement issue, you may do better looking at good bookshelves which are either sealed or front ported.

If you put good bookshelf speakers all around and put some sound treatment in place, once you run Audessey (there's a great guide HERE) you should have a truly seamless sound. Having 2 properly placed/calibrated subwoofers in there will likely get you where you want for your HT sound. :hsd:

Just my 2cents.


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

To fill a room with strictly home theater and gaming fun, consider a constant directivity/multi subwoofer system. I cannot imagine better sound for the money than 7 SHO-10 monitors and two VS-18.1 subwoofers from Chase Home Theater.

Well under your $5k budget, shipping included.


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