# Amatures be warned



## mrgcav (Mar 10, 2009)

Even if you got the parts, unless you have the experience & equipment setting and up a TV, it will do you no good. IT is not "plug and play.
Do you have a test pattern generator ???
Do you know how to set: Raster, tracking levels, Focus, Centering rings, Fine tune convergence, White balance, Dioptics ?
Also what proper order to do them in ???
Even a service manual will not tell you all you need.

Oh and lets not forget their is over 30,000 volts stored in a TV for up to a year. Do you know what not to touch ???
You get ONE attempt to it correct.


Note: What you read on the Internet is only a guess. You guess at you own expense and risk.
A dealer assumes that risk for you and provides a warranty.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

While these statements are correct, to a degree, many people are very capable of repairing their own sets. One must consider the specific situation and the people involved to make an intelligent decision.

BTW, your post might be given a bit more credibility and consideration if you paid better attention to spelling.


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## ljryjj (Feb 7, 2009)

>Do you have a test pattern generator ???
No I don't
>Do you know how to set: Raster, tracking levels, Focus, Centering rings, Fine tune convergence, White balance, Dioptics ?
Focus yes others no. Don't think most TVs need these fancy calibrations to be viewable.
>Also what proper order to do them in ???
no idea
>Even a service manual will not tell you all you need.
a big chunk of the sets I fixed, I didn't even have a schematic at hand. PCB traces tell a lot of things.
>Oh and lets not forget their is over 30,000 volts stored in a TV for up to a year.
don't think it holds for so long. I recently fixed a Toshiba tube HDTV. There's absolutely nothing there immediately after power off when I try to discharge the anode cap to tube ground.
It may be 30,000 but current is very small. It's not enough to kill.

BUT BUT I have fixed tens if not hundreds TV/CRT monitors in over 12+ years as amature. The only TV I didn't fix is due to lightening struck sneaked into the cable input and killed the 8051 microcontroller, and I couldn't get pre-programmed replacement part. There's going to be another one probably, lcaillo knows, a beautiful H and V skew on a panny :jiggy:

AND I'm mostly working on software programming.


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## ljryjj (Feb 7, 2009)

I would agree with the title if the audience has no engineering background. And I think you are talking about professional calibration versus DIY troubleshooting and repairing that lcaillo's threads are all about. They are not relevant topics at all.


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## jeffescortlx (Aug 14, 2009)

And you also have to keep in mind, hundreds of people have fixed there old TV's thanks to this forum. TV's that would of normally ended up in the land fill because haveing a tech come out to make the repairs is almost as exspensive as a new TV.


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## Tofertime (Sep 15, 2009)

Do you have a test pattern generator ???

No, I have a DVD with pictures... might not be perfect but...

Do you know how to set:

Raster
No

tracking levels
No

Focus
Kinda

Centering rings
Basicly

Fine tune convergence
Yes

White balance
Not really

Dioptics
Huh?

3k volts for a year;
Felt it after three years of storage, hurt pretty bad. 

Service manual
You mean Technical Order?


The point here is ability versus common sense versus specific training. I am a retired Avionics Technician from the USAF. I replaced dual cathode CRT's in B52's for many years. Yes, that included alignment etc. However, some of the terms were a bit different.

DIY is like hot dogs and apple pie, American!

Thank you for reminding us to be cautious and not just rush into our projects. That is always advice well worth heeding!


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## Gadzie (Sep 9, 2009)

My first DIY job was a gas dryer. I was 16 maybe 17 and had the DIY bug. Shut off the gas, Pulled it apart, took the element to a parts distributor, and reinstalled it the same day. I used to go head first into repairs and as I got older and wiser, I now take the time to research them carefully and weigh out the pro's and con's. I've repaired my own vehicles, computers, small electronics, plumbing, and I can even fix you a drink. Its all about knowing the risks and how to minimize them. I think we all learn at an early age about what comes from an electrical outlet. :blink:


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I laugh when I read more informed questions here and in other DIY forums than I read in some of the discussion groups for techs that I participate in. Many of the best techs get it, but I still get hammered for helping DIYers by a lot of them. Many of those same techs are doing little more than looking up symptoms and the associated repairs in databases or swapping boards these days. Many don't have a clue about the latest, or even 5 year old technologies. The state of the repair business is very much a glass house, IME, which is considerable in the matter. I have little patience for servicers and retailers who think that they have some inherent right to make a profit by keeping the rest of the public in the dark.

Just read the title to see how much credence these critics deserve.


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## seattle_ice (Jul 12, 2006)

Amateurs


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I had hoped to engage the OP in a reasonable discourse on the matter, but since that never happened let me set the record straight on these points. 

The fact is that repairs are often not plug and play, this is correct. There are many cases where there are clear symptom-repair relationships that can be utilized even by repair novices. That is the kind of information that is provided here, not step by step troubleshooting than involves more complex skills and equipment.

Another fact is that many, even most experienced TV repair techs pay little attention to details that many DIYers actually have MORE experience with and more skill in dealing with. Convergence, geometry, focus, and gray scale in RPTV are good examples. It is VERY common to hear experienced techs say that they just change convergence ICs and press the "magic focus" of some similar auto adjust routine and do no more. I go behind "real" techs who botch repairs or use cheap parts all the time. The fact is that they probablility of getting good value and high quality repairs with TV techs can be very poor in many areas.

That said, let me give the rest of the story on the points made in the OP that are intended to scare off DIYers.




mrgcav said:


> Even if you got the parts, unless you have the experience & equipment setting and up a TV, it will do you no good. IT is not "plug and play.


see above



mrgcav said:


> Do you have a test pattern generator ???


It is likely that many enthusiasts have better ability to generate test patterns than many techs. I know that many techs still do not have a source for any resolution beyond NTSC. Many sets have built in test patterns for convergence anyway, and many newer technologies have more advanced test patterns. The majority of techs that do have a higher resolution source simply use an upconverting DVD player and a test disc, so this argument is nonsense. Most techs would not even know where to go and how to download and burn a free set of HD patterns, while many DIYers and HT enthusiasts would.



mrgcav said:


> Do you know how to set: Raster, tracking levels, Focus, Centering rings, Fine tune convergence, White balance, Dioptics ?


What exactly needs to be set with respect to Raster? How do you set tracking levels? Many more DIYers, including many here actually have color meters to set tracking and white balance while almost NO TV repair techs have this equipment and just eyeball it. Raster setting is a very vague concept, but there is not a lot that many techs actually do in a repair that a DIYer would not. As for focus, centering, and fine tuning convergence, there are very few techs who pay attention to these details at the level that most DIYers would. Even the most inexperienced novice can run an auto convergence cycle, which many techs proudly claim is all that is needed.

The term dioptics is not related to repairs at all. It demonstrates again that the OP is really reaching and not making a credible case. 



mrgcav said:


> Also what proper order to do them in ???
> Even a service manual will not tell you all you need.


Certainly true. A service manual will not tell you all you need to know. Many years of participation in tech groups of both repair techs and DIYers has shown me that TV techs have little more knowledge in the majority of cases than many DIYers who regularly post in the public forums. In fact, many techs have used my postings here as a reference for convergence repair. The state of knowledge among TV techs simply does not justify a case against DIYers.



mrgcav said:


> Oh and lets not forget their is over 30,000 volts stored in a TV for up to a year. Do you know what not to touch ???
> You get ONE attempt to it correct.


This is simply an attempt to create fear, not to educate. The fact is that NO TV will hold 30,000 volts for more than a few minutes, much less a year. It is not the high voltage that is really dangerous anyway. The high voltage in a set may be over 30kV, but is very low in current. The deflection output is normally between 1000 and 1500 volt pulses and have much higher current. Neither, however, will be present for long after a set is powered down. The high voltage on the CRT may be stored for a while, and long after the set is off you can get a good shock from a CRT, but it is unlikely to do much more than a small burn and make you jump, or sore for a while. What IS likely to remain in some sets over time is the charge on some power supply capacitors, which can be more harmful than anything else after the set is powered down for a while. 

It is reasonable to offer cautions with regard to performing electronics repairs. It is not helpful to attempt to scare people in to using "professionals" with inaccurate information. 



mrgcav said:


> Note: What you read on the Internet is only a guess. You guess at you own expense and risk.
> A dealer assumes that risk for you and provides a warranty.


The proliferation of inaccurate information on DIY repairs was largely the reason that I created many of the threads here that many hundreds of people, including techs, have found to be very helpful. What you will find here on Home Theater Shack is more factual and correct than any place on the web and more detailed and informative than even information found in most tech forums. The fact is that most techs make guesses rather than breaking out a scope and doing real troubleshooting these days anyway. Many are cabable of little more than consulting symptom-repair databases and asking other techs for their guesses.

As for warranty and risk, servicers do not have a great record of providing effective service in many cases and their warranties are generally limited to the specifics of the repair. Most do not do adequate adjustment and cleaning, and leave sets with levels of performance that would be shameful for many of the DIYers here. There are lots of good techs, but they are getting much harder to find. Repair is a risk just like buying. Being better informed makes that risk more manageable, and that is what we do here.

DIYing is very American in my experience, and something that has always been around. Many techs got started that way, or had a dad who fixed everthing himself. There is nothing to be ashamed of in attempting a DIY repair, as long as you do your homework and proceed in a safe and mindful manner. It seems to me that many techs should be ashamed of the performance level that exists in their field. I know this tech is. I go behind others and see it all the time and see some very embarrassing questions on tech forums and listserves constantly.


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## 240V (Apr 21, 2008)

An instructor in college told the class one day that "TV repairmen don't know what they're doing because if they did, they would be making more money doing something else."


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

My experience is that this is true for many, but for others, they do it because they love what they do. The same is true for teaching. By that profs reasoning I must really be incompetent as I happened to have chosen both professions because I love teaching and love electronics.


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## 240V (Apr 21, 2008)

Ya, my teacher may have been a little bitter about the cell phone industry ruining his com radio business. This was 20 years ago. Fewer discrete parts to troubleshoot. Cheaper to buy a new one. Teaching is a noble profession especially when they do it because they love it. Creates enthusiastic students.


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## jeff68925 (Jan 17, 2010)

I have to believe that humans are still good in nature. That being said, I don't think anyone here is trying to give incorrect information to anyone. In fact, I found the information I received to be dead on track. I also offer my expertise in the broadcasting world to anyone who can benefit from it as a form of payment for the help I have received here.

Fear is both real and imaginary. As far as electrocution from a TV set, well, when I taught someone how to change a CRT (do they still make CRT's?), I always left out the step of discharging the CRT. There wasn't a single apprentice of mine that ever made that mistake again! I have been in consumer and broadcast electronics for almost 30 years, and know no one personally who was killed working on electronics, though I have lost one friend to a tower collapse. I have been doing repairs and soldering since I was 6. I taught my son to solder and change capacitors at age 5. He was climbing a broadcast tower at age 6. (please do not call OSHA) For someone to post for the purpose of putting fear in people is not only counter-productive, it is asinine. The original post in this thread is invalid in my mind as the language and grammar indicate the lack of common sense, as well as a lack of education.

To all you DIYers out there, please continue. Continue challenging yourselves, and do not fear the unknown. In today's economy, it is just common sense and totally practical to do things yourself...and I applaud anyone who gives something new a try.

That which doesn't kill us, makes us stronger.

Jeff


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