# SimAudio AV is actually a Denon...



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Has anyone seen this?
http://www.audioholics.com/av-preamp-processor-reviews/simaudio-moon-cp-8-processor

If I could afford one I would not buy one... Would you after seeing this? I would think Denon would also have a lawsuit against SimAudio.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

"I'm shocked, shocked" Not really. Old news to many of us.

BTW, Audioholics contrasting of the Denon/Sim non-relationship with the Pioneer/Andrew Jones relationship is a red herring. Andrew works for Pioneer.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I would think that SimAudio is not going to be in Business much longer if the Trademark owners go after them... Not to mention how many customers are going to question paying the mega bucks for a modded AVR. Makes you wonder how many other products they have done this on. In the article they go so far as to say SimAudio purchased the AVRs and reverse engineered them. Interesting to see that they don't see that as stealing technology and charging megabucks to unsuspecting rich customers. I know years ago Runco used to take Zenith projectors and mod them to their specs and sell them, but it was a known practice and Zenith I believe sold them directly to them to mod.


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

ellisr63 said:


> In the article they go so far as to say SimAudio purchased the AVRs and reverse engineered them.


I don't see where there was much, if any, reverse engineering here. What I see is that they took an off-the-shelf product, deleted parts they didn't want, added parts they did and modified some others. Reverse engineering is something else. (That does not mean that I am defending their misrepresentations.)


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

My mistake... not reverse engineered but de-engineered and re-engineered and then marked up $17,000. What did they do maybe $2,000 in parts, plus the original Denon?


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

ellisr63 said:


> My mistake... not reverse engineered but de-engineered and re-engineered and then marked up $17,000. What did they do maybe $2,000 in parts, plus the original Denon?


Yup. Do you wonder why it was never reviewed?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Yup. Do you wonder why it was never reviewed?


I wonder if they did the same on some of their other products and never got caught. Someone posted that if they would have took a top of the line Denon AVP to mod they would never have gotten caught. Some of these high end companies definitely have unscrupulous business policies. I wish that any company that did this would get caught and sued right out of business. This is what hurts the high end companies!


----------



## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

ellisr63 said:


> I wonder if they did the same on some of their other products and never got caught. Someone posted that if they would have took a top of the line Denon AVP to mod they would never have gotten caught. Some of these high end companies definitely have unscrupulous business policies. I wish that any company that did this would get caught and sued right out of business. This is what hurts the high end companies!


I am not a lawyer but I do wonder what they could be sued for.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Kal Rubinson said:


> I am not a lawyer but I do wonder what they could be sued for.


I would think that Denon has Trademarked all their designs... Not to mention all the companies that have authorized Denon to use their Trademarks. I would also assume that taking a product and changing some parts and selling it as your own design is a violation of law too. We will see what they do.


----------



## moparz10 (Sep 21, 2010)

Proofs in the pudding snake oil still out there lddude:


----------



## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

Great article, but its pathetic and makes me sick to my stomach how much mark up was and I am sad for the folks that actually purchased those receivers from SimAudio! However it's there money.


----------

