# Newb - A/V Reciever Questions?



## Guest (Nov 7, 2007)

Hello all!

I am new to the Home Audio scene. However, I am eager to learn and hope that I can recieve some help today. I am your usual family man that is looking for a a/v reciever that isn't the best... but suits it needs for me :jump: and the family. Our budget is around $500 and we are looking for something that takes advantage of the HDTV & our PS3.

We want something that will give us some longevity in the investment, and also make use of our large collection of regular dvds.

Last Christmas a friend of the family got us a speaker system... YAMAHA NS-AP480. This Christmas we would like to get a reciever to go with it (so we can actually use um lol).

I did some looking around and stumbled on the RX-V661 and RX-V861 recievers. However, I really don't know what I should be looking for. So I ask for some suggestions and some reasons of why I should choose them. Thank you very much!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Hi Marshall and welcome to the Shack!

You are not going to notice a lot of difference between receivers in that general price range. Some will have few more features than others, but all of them will do what you are looking to do. 

You could consider either of those receivers, but they are probably more than you really need.

A couple of options for a little less money:

Yamaha RX-V659

Onkyo TX-SR605


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

Welcome, Marshal.

Sonnie, since he has a PS3 (Blu-Ray player), I'd eliminate the Yamaha 659...otherwise a fine receiver, but no HDMI. 

Between the 605 and 661, I'd go 661. The 605 is nice, but doesn't have preamp outputs or do 7.1 expansion on 5.1 HDMI LPCM. The 661 also uses highly regarded Burr-Brown DACS, reportedly the same part used in the higher end RX-V1700. A friend of mine replaced a Sherwood-Newcastle AVP-9080 (Stereophile recommended preamp/processor during its time) with the 661 as a pre-pro and hasn't looked back.

If you're not ever going to go 7.1 or consider an external power amp one day, then like Sonnie said, choose the least expensive. 

If the $500 isn't a hard cap, sometimes the Onkyo 705 shows right at or even sub $600. It adds THX Select2 certification and *3* v1.3a HDMI inputs. No Burr-Browns, but it has 7.1 preamp outputs and will do 7.1 overlays. 

If I had to replace my current pre-pro tomorrow, I'd get the 705 and run it as a pre-pro.

-Brent


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Yep... didn't even realize it didn't have HDMI... sorry about that.


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## Big Worm (Mar 8, 2007)

I would go with the Onkyo 605. I actually spent a little bit more and got the 705. I really liked the Yamaha 661, but I new I would be kicking my self later on if I did not get a receiver that had the latest processing built in. But this is just me. I have a HD-A1 and a PS3 hooked up and it is awesome! Easy to setup and I know I am future proof.


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

Marshall, if you're still in the market...checkout the current Onkyo 705 offer.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

brent_s said:


> If the $500 isn't a hard cap, sometimes the Onkyo 705 shows right at or even sub $600. *It adds THX Select2 certification* and *3* v1.3a HDMI inputs. No *Burr-Browns*, but it has *7.1 preamp outputs* and will do *7.1 overlays*.


Hehehe What does all that mean to me? 

Also what does Big Worm mean with lastest processing?

Is this Onkyo hand down better than the Yamaha RX-661?

=============================================================

Also how is the Onkyo on userfriendlyness... lol Um I had read that the Yamaha was difficult for newbies to get a grasp around.


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## Big Worm (Mar 8, 2007)

Pinnacle said:


> Hehehe What does all that mean to me?
> 
> Also what does Big Worm mean with lastest processing?
> 
> ...


What I mean is the Onkyo can process the latest high definition codecs Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding. It is only applicable if you are running HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The Yamaha does not have this so the high definition players need to process it and send it over to the receiver. 

This may not be a big deal to you.


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## Josuah (Apr 26, 2006)

THX certification has different levels indicating the a few different things, but generally it means the product was tested to meet certain criteria in terms of capabilities (not sound quality). Products that do have THX certification are not necessarily better than those that don't, as you need to pay money to get your product certified. But if not doing a lot of research on your own, it's probably a good yardstick. The higher THX certifications generally relate to larger rooms; if your room is small, you don't necessarily need the bigger THX label.

HDMI is the newest digital video/audio connector, and is on the back of your PS3. Having three of them means you can connect three sources without having to change cables. The v1.3a is the latest specification, supporting the most stuff.

Burr-Brown is a DAC (digital analog converter) brand and considered one of the best. The DAC is what converts the digital signal (your optical or coax audio cable, or the digital audio over HDMI) to analog, since speakers need an analog signal. Better DACs result in better sound, because they will be more precise.

Pre-amp outputs means you can buy an external amplifier (receivers do both the processing and the amplification) and use the receiver as only the processor. You probably don't care about this now, and possibly not for a really long time in the future either. This processing part of the receiver is what Big Worm is talking about, although I don't know specifically what he's referring to in the products he mentioned. Some of the newer Blu-Ray and HD-DVD audio formats are only now being supported in receivers.

Not sure what "overlay" is referring to.

Onkyo in general is not hands-down better than Yamaha. Yamaha products are consistently well regarded and measure well on measurement web sites. But I haven't seen either of these units measured. I would suggest you spend as much as you are comfortable with, rather than trying to save a couple hundred bucks on a cheaper receiver that has the same feature set. The quality differential between a $200-$300 receiver and a $500-$600 one can be significant. However, keep in mind that some brands are more expensive just for the brand name.


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## Guest (Nov 12, 2007)

Big Worm said:


> What I mean is the Onkyo can process the latest high definition codecs Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD decoding. It is only applicable if you are running HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. The Yamaha does not have this so the high definition players need to process it and send it over to the receiver.
> 
> This may not be a big deal to you.


How does this affect the sound quality?


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## brent_s (Feb 26, 2007)

Josuah, very good summation.

I would add, that implementation of the DAC is as important as the actual part used. Burr-Brown is well regarded, obviously, since a lot of manufacturers go to the trouble to highlight their use in ad copy. However, many products using Cirrus, Wolfson, etc. DACs have also been highly regarded. I personally don't think my ear is sensitive enough to hear a difference between the 661's B-B and whatever the 705 is using...YMMV.

The RX-V661 was reviewed and bench tested by S&V. Seems like the five channels all driven power was 50-some wpc. In reality, that's plenty since all channels driven is a worst case scenario. However, part of the THX certification is amplifier output, so the 705 probably has a beefier power supply. THX also adds some additional signal processing that a user may or may not prefer.

Overlay is the ability to add 7.1 post-processing to a 5.1 signal via something like DPL IIx. The 605 doesn't have the processing power to expand 5.1 PCM into 7.1. Both the Onkyo 705 and Yammie 661 can. The H/K 247, also around this price point, can per its manual, but apparently doesn't in the real world, pending a firmware update that still isn't out.

Sound quality *shouldn't* be different between player processing of TrueHD/DTS HD and receiver decoding of such via bitstream. I think the worry here, is a carryover from the early DVD days. Back then, a lot of players would decode DD/DTS to an analog 5.1 output without performing any delay or bass management. Unfortunately, most receivers also didn't apply any delay/BM processing to their 5.1 analong inputs, thus the need for onboard decoding of the signal. However, the receivers we're talking about here, will perform full signal processing on the multi-channel PCM being delivered via HDMI, making it less important where the initial decoding takes place, IMO.

If the choice is $584 delivered for the 705 vs. $499 for the 661, the extra HDMI input alone is probably worth the difference. Of course, the 661 is usually available for less than $499 so you have to decide how much some of the other differences are really worth to you. You can also pick up a 4/1 HDMI switch box for under $50 if you need more than the two on the 661. 

Around the $500 mark, I do feel these are the two best choices...and neither is really bad.

-Brent


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## Big Worm (Mar 8, 2007)

Pinnacle said:


> How does this affect the sound quality?


Brent did a very good job of answering. 

I am mainly trying to point out one major difference between the Onkyo and the Yamaha. I wouldn't want you to later on feel that you those features in a receiver and have to upgrade again.


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## azgreenb (Nov 19, 2007)

Let me add my $0.02. I went to Best Buy to demo what they had. I liked the Harmon Kardons, just based on sound. Not scientific. I then went online and found the HK AVR-645 at Techforless. (<-- not promoting them, just stating a fact) It was an open box item, but I got it for ~$500. This receiver is one step below their "flagship." It is also around the same price as the AVR-247 @ BestBuy. Point being, decide on what you want then go online to find one in your price range. You may be able to get more than you thought for just a little more work.


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

Thread necromancy!








Muhahahaha! Christmas is coming up again... and unfortunately last year we feel on hard times and were not able to actually purchase any of the A/V units described in this thread. Fortunately we are doing much better now, and the family is dead set on getting a reciever for the speakers we have in the closet... :dizzy:

Are these still good recievers? Has there been any huge improvements over the last year?


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## Guest (Nov 16, 2008)

I did find this, the RX-V861 for $380. Which appears like a good price to me... any opinions? Looks like the RX-V663 is almost the same model with more options for a similar price...


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

the onkyo's that you were looking at before, would still be my choice.. even going with the 605 over the 606 -- I can't remember the specifics, but it seems that the "upgrades" were more of a "downgrade" in some areas.

Anyway, you can get refurbed 605 units for something like $260. Not sure if you can get them new anymore.

JCD


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## ISLAND1000 (May 2, 2007)

Check out Pioneer VSX-1018AH. It has everything you'll ever need and is almost future proof.


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## SkiSmuggs (Oct 21, 2008)

Pinnacle said:


> I did find this, the RX-V861 for $380. Which appears like a good price to me... any opinions? Looks like the RX-V663 is almost the same model with more options for a similar price...


That's an older model and may not have HDMI and the HD audio decoding. I would go with the Yamaha 663 (sub $400), Onkyo 606 ($350 at Amazon) or Pioneer 1018 (sub $500). These all have list prices of $500-600. If you are getting a new receiver, you should get something that is not already outdated. Figure on paying $100-150 more at the box stores than at online stores like Amazon, New Egg, 6TH Ave, J&R or Crutchfield. If you don't care about HD audio decoding because your BD player decodes and sends it out via PCM over HDMI, you may want to consider the Yamaha 463/563, Onkyo 506 or Pioneer 918, all available for about $300 or below online.


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