# Affordable Power amplifier ???



## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

I was Wondering if anyone has any suggestions for a good Power amplifier so that I can run 9 speakers. 
I cannot buy it for a while later on this year..

maybe a Vintage stereo receiver would work but a Stand alone amp is probably much more powerful.
Receiver = Onkyo 818

I dont see options to run front speakers on the Pre-amplifier menu can you run front speakers with pre amp when using onkyo 818???
Klipsch Icon KF-26 towers are my fronts.


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## rselby (Feb 8, 2012)

depends on what you call affordable, I have a few onkyo M 504 power amps( dual mono 165 WPC @8 ohms) and a kenwood basic M2( 220 [email protected] 8ohms) and a adcom GFA 5500(200 wpc @8, [email protected] ohms)...all can be had for around $500 each, or less...all of these are considered vintage!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Just to clarify you want to run the 8th and 9th channels from the Onkyo 818? Emotiva has a nice two channel amp here: http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/upa200


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Just to clarify you want to run the 8th and 9th channels from the Onkyo 818? Emotiva has a nice two channel amp here: http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/upa200


Yes but can u use a amplifier for the Front speakers , So receiver does other 7? Or does onkyo only allow you to add extra power for Front height/wide/back surrounds?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You can add an amp to any of the 9 channels through the pre outs if you choose.


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## gtjames (Dec 19, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> You can add an amp to any of the 9 channels through the pre outs if you choose.


I run an xpa5 for my front mains and center
My onkyo5009 runs the other 6 and subs


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

No matter what amplifier you have it will still be playing through the same speakers which means it is going to sound exactly the same as it does now.
The only exception to that is if the current amplification is not capable of achieving the volume level desired.
If the AVR you are using has preamp outputs I think it is unlikely that the built in amplifiers are being over stressed.
If you want an amp because you just want one by all means go for it, it will be satisfying on many levels.
If you are trying to fix a sound quality problem let's talk about what that problem is and what might be done to address it.


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

chashint said:


> No matter what amplifier you have it will still be playing through the same speakers which means it is going to sound exactly the same as it does now.
> The only exception to that is if the current amplification is not capable of achieving the volume level desired.
> If the AVR you are using has preamp outputs I think it is unlikely that the built in amplifiers are being over stressed.
> If you want an amp because you just want one by all means go for it, it will be satisfying on many levels.
> If you are trying to fix a sound quality problem let's talk about what that problem is and what might be done to address it.


I want an amp to run 9 channel surround mostly.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

No problem with that at all. Enjoy your search and keep posting about your experience.


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

K I will 9 speakers is great .


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

chashint said:


> No matter what amplifier you have it will still be playing through the same speakers which means it is going to sound exactly the same as it does now.
> The only exception to that is if the current amplification is not capable of achieving the volume level desired.
> If the AVR you are using has preamp outputs I think it is unlikely that the built in amplifiers are being over stressed.
> If you want an amp because you just want one by all means go for it, it will be satisfying on many levels.
> If you are trying to fix a sound quality problem let's talk about what that problem is and what might be done to address it.


+1. That's the truth.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

chashint said:


> No matter what amplifier you have it will still be playing through the same speakers which means it is going to sound exactly the same as it does now.


No, that is simply not true. A bit of an overstatement.



chashint said:


> The only exception to that is if the current amplification is not capable of achieving the volume level desired.


That is one reason, but there are others. For example, the output impedance of the amp. Or it's low level linearity, how it behaves at <0.1w and the characteristics of the distortion (one of the GedLee metrics). Or its HF distortion spectra vs load(even without clipping). Or....



chashint said:


> If the AVR you are using has preamp outputs I think it is unlikely that the built in amplifiers are being over stressed.


Ok, you got me there :scratch:. What is the correlation between the two? How would that determine the load and required/desired output levels?



chashint said:


> If you want an amp because you just want one by all means go for it, it will be satisfying on many levels.
> If you are trying to fix a sound quality problem let's talk about what that problem is and what might be done to address it.


Now that I agree on.

cheers


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> No, that is simply not true. A bit of an overstatement.


If we are talking about modern high fidelity solid state amplifiers operating within their design parameters then it is not an overstatement. A bias controlled listening test can clear that up for you.


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## terjeerikssen (Dec 26, 2013)

The hypex amps are the best, you need too build some easy stuff


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

terjeerikssen said:


> The hypex amps are the best, you need too build some easy stuff


I have no idea how to build an amplifier is it easy? Got any links:T


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

chashint said:


> No matter what amplifier you have it will still be playing through the same speakers which means it is going to sound exactly the same as it does now.





fmw said:


> *If* we are talking about modern high fidelity solid state amplifiers operating within their design parameters then it is not an overstatement.


There is no "if" in chas's statement. Only a single caveat was subsequently stated...and as I stated, this is incorrect..and why. Absolutist positions are not helpful, whether one considers one self to be a "objectivist" or "subjectivist". Extreme positions on either side are reflective only of ignorance.



fmw said:


> A bias controlled listening test can clear that up for you.


Of what? You absolutist statement is untestable. The onus is squarely on you to provide evidence to support it.
Amplifiers do no operate independently of load...and you have no clue what that load(s) will be for a "modern"...or any amplifier, so your absolutist position is specious.

cheers


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> There is no "if" in chas's statement. Only a single caveat was subsequently stated...and as I stated, this is incorrect..and why. Absolutist positions are not helpful, whether one considers one self to be a "objectivist" or "subjectivist". Extreme positions on either side are reflective only of ignorance.


OK, sea lawyer.




> Of what? You absolutist statement is untestable. The onus is squarely on you to provide evidence to support it.
> Amplifiers do no operate independently of load...and you have no clue what that load(s) will be for a "modern"...or any amplifier, so your absolutist position is specious.
> 
> cheers


Let me be less specious. In 15 bias controlled listening tests using 10 audiophiles as a test panel, we were unable to uncover any audible differences between any hi fi soiid state audio amplifiers. So it isn't an extreme position. It is, in fact, the opposite. Believing that all amplifiers have a signature sound is an extreme position. You can find exceptions to anything. We simply weren't able to find any. I'm sure you can since you are a part of the industry.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

fmw said:


> Let me be less specious. In 15 bias controlled listening tests using 10 audiophiles as a test panel, we were unable to uncover any audible differences between any hi fi soiid state audio amplifiers.


Well, that proves it!!
How many "any" SS amps? How many loads? What was your sample size?
You do understand that I agree, SS amps behaving linearly into loads, are for all intents, undifferentiated, yes?
Do you understand how this is different from your absolutist positions? 



fmw said:


> Believing that all amplifiers have a signature sound is an extreme position.


Who believes or holds such a position? Quote?



fmw said:


> I'm sure you can since you are a part of the industry.


Yes, I build and sell loudspeakers. Therefore, unlike you, it is very important that I understand how both speakers _and_ amplifiers (and human minds) work, as they are to be connected to my supplied terminals. This is precisely why I hold such non-absolutist positions.
You mean well and are on the right "side", but your positions are very similar to the other.

cheers


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> Well, that proves it!!
> 
> Do you understand how this is different from your absolutist positions?


No I don't. I understand that there are rare exceptions to everything. Making a statement that is true almost all the time is hardly absolutist but you can argue semantics all you like.




> Who believes or holds such a position? Quote?


The high end audio world. The Absolute Sound is full of quotes. You can find them there yourself. 




> Yes, I build and sell loudspeakers. Therefore, unlike you, it is very important that I understand how both speakers _and_ amplifiers (and human minds) work, as they are to be connected to my supplied terminals. This is precisely why I hold such non-absolutist positions.
> You mean well and are on the right "side", but your positions are very similar to the other.
> 
> cheers


My positions are what they are and they are based on test results not opinions. I understand what you are saying as well but I don't agree with it. Yes there are speaker loads that can stress some amplifiers and stressed amplifiers sound different from those that are operating within their design parameters. But that isn't the point. Every amplifier will sound different when it is operating beyond those design parameters. It has nothing to do with what I said. Cheers to you as well.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

fmw said:


> My positions are what they are and they are based on test results not opinions. I understand what you are saying as well but I don't agree with it. Yes there are speaker loads that can stress some amplifiers and stressed amplifiers sound different from those that are operating within their design parameters. But that isn't the point. Every amplifier will sound different when it is operating beyond those design parameters. It has nothing to do with what I said. Cheers to you as well.


Test results can be very misleading particularly ones done in controlled environments. We all know that non of us have perfect rooms nor do we listen 3 ft from the speakers. In a perfect world those results are well founded but in reality they are flawed.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

fmw said:


> No I don't. I understand that there are rare exceptions to everything.


Again, on what basis do you state this as a "rare exception"?
Loudspeakers (especially towers, with multiple woofers) don't have impedances that dip below 4 ohms and challenging phase angles?
"Modern" $300-$500 HT Receivers popular in the marketplace have high burst power into <4ohms (all ch driven) and steep phase angles without misbehavior?
Do have some data to suggest this is only a "rare' occurrence?



fmw said:


> The high end audio world. The Absolute Sound is full of quotes. You can find them there yourself.


Ah. A complete Red Herring contextually. Ok.



fmw said:


> My positions are what they are and they are based on test results not opinions.


A rather small sample size for such sweeping opinions.



fmw said:


> I understand what you are saying as well but I don't agree with it. Yes there are speaker loads that can stress some amplifiers and stressed amplifiers sound different from those that are operating within their design parameters. But that isn't the point. Every amplifier will sound different when it is operating beyond those design parameters. It has nothing to do with what I said.


Actually, it has everything to do with what you said and agreed with Chas about. It was an absolutist position that you now seem to be retreating from, after giving it some further thought. That's a much better way to approach things.

cheers


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Test results can be very misleading particularly ones done in controlled environments.


Don't quite agree with you there. I think misinterpretation of results can be misleading, rather than just the results themselves.



tonyvdb said:


> We all know that non of us have perfect rooms nor do we listen 3 ft from the speakers. In a perfect world those results are well founded but in reality they are flawed.


That's a bit of a Red Herring there Tony. Must be on special today .

Choose amplification based on information, not lack thereof.

cheers


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Changed my mind...the thread has now been hijacked by a known argumentative audiophile and no further good will come of this.

Original poster, I absolutely do not agree with anything ajinfla is posting.
Look around the forum and decide for yourself what has merit and what does not.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

ajinfla said:


> Again, on what basis do you state this as a "rare exception"?
> Loudspeakers (especially towers, with multiple woofers) don't have impedances that dip below 4 ohms and challenging phase angles?
> "Modern" $300-$500 HT Receivers popular in the marketplace have high burst power into <4ohms (all ch driven) and steep phase angles without misbehavior?
> Do have some data to suggest this is only a "rare' occurrence?
> ...


I see no further point in responding to you. You are like a politician in a political race picking at every verbal scrap. You understand clearly what I'm saying but you insist on playing games that I have no interest in playing. I'll wish you best of luck and let you go argue with someone else.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Test results can be very misleading particularly ones done in controlled environments. We all know that non of us have perfect rooms nor do we listen 3 ft from the speakers. In a perfect world those results are well founded but in reality they are flawed.


I don't agree with you any more than I do with AJ so, for fear of acting like him, I'll wish you best of luck as well.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

chashint said:


> Changed my mind...the thread has now been hijacked by a known argumentative audiophile and no further good will come of this.
> 
> Original poster, I absolutely do not agree with anything ajinfla is posting.
> Look around the forum and decide for yourself what has merit and what does not.


+1 again.


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## terjeerikssen (Dec 26, 2013)

Hi, the hypex amps are only mount and wiering, and need a box coling rib alu from ebay.
http://www.dynabel.no/Shop/Product/Hypex-2-kanals-forsterker-Kit-med-UcD-400-HG-HxR/HY7295
I did bye my kit in norwegian , but hypex have an home page you can order from.
I know the sound is like 10000$ amp. You can bye powerbank can drive multi modules


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## squish72 (Jun 5, 2012)

Also looking for a budget amp to add to a 818. Was hoping for under $150 also like the idea of building my own but it dont seem like ill find a 2 channel build in that price range complete


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

squish72 said:


> Also looking for a budget amp to add to a 818. Was hoping for under $150 also like the idea of building my own but it dont seem like ill find a 2 channel build in that price range complete


What is the purpose of the amp you want to add ?


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## squish72 (Jun 5, 2012)

Im looking to use the amp to add front height speakers for 9.1, i belive with this amp inorder to do 9 channels the external amp has to be used for fron heights or wides. I have energy c-100s all around and will be using a pair of c-50s for the heights


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## asarose247 (Jan 8, 2013)

I added an Emotiva UPA 7 to my 818 to run my four rear surrounds, center and high fronts, however, you will not be able to use the 12 volt trigger to automatically power on the extra amp. dang. selecting high fronts or wide fronts disable the zone 2 and 3 trigger outputs.
So I opted to run LRC with the 818 and the other 6 with the UPA 7. 
I have found that for (most)music, the LRC and subs soundstage cranks ( in my room , anyway)
But for movies and games, A walk to the front of the room ,14 feet, is not a hardship and games like COD and a well mastered BD will just blow the room away. 
Did I NEED! it. maybe not, 
But . . .


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## kingnoob (Mar 12, 2013)

asarose247 said:


> I added an Emotiva UPA 7 to my 818 to run my four rear surrounds, center and high fronts, however, you will not be able to use the 12 volt trigger to automatically power on the extra amp. dang. selecting high fronts or wide fronts disable the zone 2 and 3 trigger outputs.
> So I opted to run LRC with the 818 and the other 6 with the UPA 7.
> I have found that for (most)music, the LRC and subs soundstage cranks ( in my room , anyway)
> But for movies and games, A walk to the front of the room ,14 feet, is not a hardship and games like COD and a well mastered BD will just blow the room away.
> ...


Is the 80w / ch very powerfull for movies?? $500 is outa budget, sale is over to0o


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## squish72 (Jun 5, 2012)

Thanks for the reply and the info as i did not know running one of those settings would dissable the 12v triggers. As far as an amp goes thats above my budget. Im looking for a 2 channel amp and im even considering a kit and solder my own up. Id like to stay under $150 if at all possible.


l


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## asarose247 (Jan 8, 2013)

Is the 80w / ch very powerfull for movies?? $500 is outa budget, sale is over to0o 

The UPA 7 is used and rated at 125 or more /channel. Ebay was my source.
And I'm sure I have power just layin' around when its all going but that's want I wanted . . . 
Why not check a pawn shop or try borrowing some relic somebody surely has and see how it comes together.

Read more: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...fordable-power-amplifier-4.html#ixzz2q3HJcGR2


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## apilon (May 18, 2006)

You could look at pro amp like the behringer ep-2500 , the crown xls-1000 or the qsc rmx850 

very affordable and plenty of power 

Alain


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Behringer is known to be a bit noisy and not a great idea for full range. They are great for subs.


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## apilon (May 18, 2006)

According to this gentleman the sound is phenomenal 

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=141383


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