# DACs... So many choice??? help



## SQBubble (Nov 12, 2007)

im sure a lot of people are on the same boat as me...
There are too many DACs out there... lol.. im wondering if someone could shed some light here

initially I was about to get the Asus xonar essence STX, but since there seem to be a potential driver/software problem and also EMI from inside the computer, i currently have a Soundblaster X-FI but i find that sometime it sounds funny and very inconsistent, i get weird small "processing sound" coming out of the speakers sometimes... I think lot of headache would be avoided by simply going with a USB dac, and id have more space in my computer so win-win...

and there goes... got at least 6 dacs that seem to be interesting, but what should I aim at? dac chipset? opamp? tube? here are what Im considering top-bottom=most interesting to me to least (btw I need a headphone amplifier so basically looking for headphone amp/DAC);

1. Woo Audio WA7 fireflies (TI PCM5102A 32-bit DAC chip -- not sure if the tubes act as a dac buffer as well or are just for the headphone amp?) -- 1100$
2. Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 (Cirrus Logic CS4398 dac chip) -- 489$
3. Cambridge DacMagic Plus (Dual Wolfson WM8740 24bit DACs) ~700$
4. Maverick Audio TubeMagic D1 Plus DAC w/ OPA627 OpAmp & GE5670W Tube ? 250$
5. Woo Audio WDS-1 (PCM1795 D/A) 1200$ and no headphone amplifier
6. Arcam irDAC (TI PCM1796) ~700$ no headphone amplifier

Im also considering a Benchmark audio dac, they seem to be good but too expensive, maybe i could check for used? are they overpriced?
thx guys

p.s I have a pre-amplifier alrdy if that makes a difference?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Hi SQBubble, you don't list your system, but I assume you use a computer as a source.
Is there an actual budget?
Does the DAC need to have any other function (such as volume control, etc)?
What type of music do you typically/most often listen to?
Do you believe there is a direct correlation between price and sound, i.e, the more you spend, the "better" the "sound" of the DAC?

cheers


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## SQBubble (Nov 12, 2007)

i dont want to go over 1k... source is a computer indeed! 
Would like to have a headphone amp and volume control would be practical so yes, only need 1 pair of RCA output, i listen mostly to deep house music, lounge/buddah bar, classical-- mozart / beethoven / chopin / andrea bocelli and occasionaly some reggae, trance, oriental music as well as maritime music/ salsa, portuguese... 

I dont know about the price/sound question... i know that some product will always be overpriced with hype... lol

Thats why im asking what should i look for in a DAC?


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

SQBubble said:


> Would like to have a headphone amp and volume control would be practical so yes, only need 1 pair of RCA output


Ok, so essentially, a DAC with headphone capability, with analog outs to feed your pre. The tube option is, IMO, ok, as long as bypassable. i.e., the device works even if the tubes don't.



SQBubble said:


> i listen mostly to deep house music, lounge/buddah bar, classical-- mozart / beethoven / chopin / andrea bocelli and occasionaly some reggae, trance, oriental music as well as maritime music/ salsa, portuguese...


Cool. Ultimately, "SQ" is determined purely by you, but at least there is some real life reference anchors in there.



SQBubble said:


> I dont know about the price/sound question... i know that some product will always be overpriced with hype... lol
> Thats why im asking what should i look for in a DAC?


Well, inevitably, humanity creeps into the equation. No one is excluded. It is simply human nature to believe that more expensive = better. The degree of susceptibility of the mind to these realities, is determined on an individual basis.
I can't really answer which _you_ will prefer, but IMO, you need not spend more than for the Maverick D1 Plus, since it seems to fill what I believe are your basic needs for a DAC - headphone amp/volume, tube/SS output, etc.
If anyone were to present compelling evidence (no, not "I said so, I heard it") that humans can differentiate between modern DACs, I would certainly have to reassess my position. Until then...
If you eschew the tube need, then the o2 oDAC fills the bill....with (very good) specified performance that I can at least see and use as a basis for evaluating the device.

cheers


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

AJ brings out a very good point in that the end user has to be the guide here. There are probably dozens if not more really good headphone dac combinations that would easily fit your needs. 

Schitt (Yes the real name) makes a nice Modi, Dac that goes with their Magni headphone amp fo $ 200
Nuforce - ICON UDAC
FiiO Several versions
Emotiva
Firestone
Arcam

and on and on.

This is surely a tough question to answer, but the products are out there just pick one that suits your needs. Remember, the DAC proper will most probably have no difference in sound from one to another, if there are differences it will be in the architecture of the headphone amp.


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## SQBubble (Nov 12, 2007)

okay thanks for the response! you are right, ill just get the one that suits me in terms of the additional options/connections! 

I have a silly question about this diagram:
http://grantfidelity.com/images/TubeDAC11/TubeDAC-11HomeChart.jpg

1. Arent all output should go through the DAC? or they are (goes without saying)
2. Does the line out means that it bypasses everything on the pcb, why would i use that?
3. the line output and Tube output is 6v whereas the DAC output is 2V... what does it mean basically?


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

I am truly not an engineer but I would imagine the OV will be dependent on which output is being used ?

Either way here is a nice review of the unit and it may explain it better than I.

http://www.stereomojo.com/Grant Audio Tube DAC11.htm/GrantAudioTubeDAC11.htm


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Savjac said:


> I am truly not an engineer


Neither am I, but I play one on TV.



SQBubble said:


> 1. Arent all output should go through the DAC? or they are (goes without saying)
> 2. Does the line out means that it bypasses everything on the pcb, why would i use that?
> 3. the line output and Tube output is 6v whereas the DAC output is 2V... what does it mean basically?


1. Bitstream, yes. The analog output>input would not.
2. No.
3. The "DAC out" is the somewhat standard _fixed_ level output for line level components, like a HD tuner, CD, DVD, BD players, etc.
The 6V represents the maximum _variable_ output of the preamp section, SS and tube.

cheers


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Having done quite a bit of listening with *Fiio* products, I have found them to be excellent, lots of bang for the buck. The E17 is my current favorite, with up to 24/96 capability via USB, up to 24/192 via optical in.

The *Fiio* X3 is technically a media player, but can double as a DAC with up to 24/192 via USB.

The O2 DAC / headphone amp is supposed to be a top performer. I would probably not spend more than that for a quality DAC.

As others have said, watch out for the influence of high expectations. It is very easy to talk ourselves into thinking we hear differences that might not exist. But ultimately you are the judge of what sounds best to you. If you can have a friend set up a blind test for you, that can help you keep your ears honest.


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## SQBubble (Nov 12, 2007)

should i be worried if a dac is not asynchronus ? or there isnt much of a difference?


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Asynchronous is what "they" say is the ideal USB interface for DACs. I don't know in real engineering terms how much better it could be than another type of interface. All other factors being equal, it sounds like the preferred type of USB-DAC interface (combination of driver in the PC and hardware in the DAC). How much more it is worth in $$ and how much difference it truly makes sonically are two unknowns for me.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

Just about every USB DAC for ~$100 or more is asynchronous. It just takes the timing issue away from the PC and lets the DAC, which has it's own dedicated and better clock do all the timing for decoding the digital signal. Since you get it with all but the most inexpensive DAC's it's IMO a no brainer.

No special drivers are required. It's built into the firmware of the DAC.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

It is my understanding that asynchronous is the way to go but I am not sure how bad one would suffer if you did not get that kind or if one could actually hear a difference. 
I still have some learning to do myself.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

JoeESP9 said:


> Just about every USB DAC for ~$100 or more is asynchronous. It just takes the timing issue away from the PC and lets the DAC, which has it's own dedicated and better clock do all the timing for decoding the digital signal. Since you get it with all but the most inexpensive DAC's it's IMO a no brainer.


^^This^^


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

JoeESP9 said:


> Just about every USB DAC for ~$100 or more is asynchronous. It just takes the timing issue away from the PC and lets the DAC, which has it's own dedicated and better clock do all the timing for decoding the digital signal. Since you get it with all but the most inexpensive DAC's it's IMO a no brainer.
> 
> No special drivers are required. It's built into the firmware of the DAC.


Good explanation. Sounds like the way to go.


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## JoeESP9 (Jun 29, 2009)

The Schiit Modi for $99 is IMO a winner. 

The original Audioquest dragonfly is on sale for $99. It's more suitable for Laptop/Netbook use being the size of a thumb drive. 

If you want DSD playback the Schiit Loki for $149 is a reasonable addition, especially if you already have a DAC you're happy with.

All three of these are asynchronous USB devices.


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## kaijorg (Feb 2, 2014)

I highly recommend the Emotiva XDA-2 DAC. Everything I read about it was good and at this point I am very happy with the quality. So much so that I then upgraded my amp to an Emotiva.
I play flac files on JRiver, Emotiva XDA-2 DAC, Emotiva XPR-2 amp, B&W N803 speakers.


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