# new pioneer sc57



## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

i recently got the pioneer sc57 receiver with B&W cm9 for fronts.. cm2 for center and cm5 for surround.. and asw 10cm for sub.. i have been working on the mcacc setting and trying to calibrate speakers. i am newer to all of this so any help would be appreciated. whenever i run it..it seems the center channel is never loud enough. i am wondering what volume level should i have my receiver at while its calbrating.. same with the sub.. what volume level.. and other things people have found useful with this receiver and bowers speakers is welcomed information


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## popalock (May 19, 2012)

I have the SC-57 as well. The best thing you can do is...return it.

A comparible AVR with Audyssey XT32 (such as the Denon 4311CI) will give you more flexible EQ options, to include bass management, something the Pio's have always lacked.

To this day I feel like purchasing the SC-57 was a novice mistake.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I had the same issue with my Onkyo - dialogue just seemed to be lacking. After Audessey had done it's thing, I adjusted the master volume up and dialogue is no longer overpowered.

I am not familiar with the Pioneer series, but I would imagine it has this type of capability as well - give that a go.

As far as the sub, I know several members tend to run their subs "hot" - IOW, they trim the sub level higher as the calibration tends to leave them less than impressive.

On a side note, I know several people have stated that MCACC is not as user friendly as Audessey, and IIRC, struggles with subs.......


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## hdmiii (May 25, 2008)

Are you placing the calibration mic correctly? Where are you sitting when you notice the lack of center volume?
The SC-57 is a fantastic receiver. MCACC is very good and would be even better with subwoofer calibration.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Thats the biggest issue with MCACC, It does not do much with the subwoofer channel. Placement of the mic is key, make sure that its placed on a trypod at ear level not on the back of a couch or chair.


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

that may be my problem then as i am usually putting i on the back of the couch or i am just simply trying to hold it at ear level. and mu sub is always getting calibrated at -12 db


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Thats the biggest issue with MCACC, It does not do much with the subwoofer channel. Placement of the mic is key, make sure that its placed on a trypod at ear level not on the back of a couch or chair.


.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

No, it will automatically set the volume correctly when it runs the test signals.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Read the manual (MCACC) very carefully... The more you read it, the more you'll pick-up on. Also, search the web to make sure your manual has all of the info... I didn't have that and needed to download a manual for MCACC for the PC - it had some great extra info even though I wasn't loading data onto a PC.

I'll agree that McACC can be a tad confusing, but give it a chance. Once you master it, you'll get pleasing results that can be highly tweaked once completed. If you search Home Theater Shack, you'll find some threads about running MCACC and saving presets.

As for the lack of sub EQ... My opinion might differ from others, but if you want to equalize a sub, buy a used BFD on eBay for 70-80 bucks and learn how to run the REW software. It's easy to do and will allow you to manually manage the sub. Way better than any automated EQ package... I really don't see how automated Sub EQ in Audyssey is a deal breaker... 

Enjoy your elite! They make great receivers.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

27dnast said:


> Read the manual (MCACC) very carefully... The more you read it, the more you'll pick-up on. Also, search the web to make sure your manual has all of the info... I didn't have that and needed to download a manual for MCACC for the PC - it had some great extra info even though I wasn't loading data onto a PC.
> 
> I'll agree that McACC can be a tad confusing, but give it a chance. Once you master it, you'll get pleasing results that can be highly tweaked once completed. If you search Home Theater Shack, you'll find some threads about running MCACC and saving presets.
> 
> ...


Great point here - it can work just as well as Audessey as 27dnast says - you just need to spend a bit of time learning it. And, the Elite series by all accounts (I have never personally owned one) are great units.

As far as Sub EQ, I would agree - in the end, you can potentially get better results with REW and an EQ. However, there is quite a bit of testing and understanding of the results involved - hence, the niche for an AVR with software that gets you some / most of the way there. For those that do not wish to go through the testing involved, Sub EQ in your AVR could be a deal breaker IMO.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Joe,
Very well put and I couldn't agree more.


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

ALMFamily said:


> Great point here - it can work just as well as Audessey as 27dnast says - you just need to spend a bit of time learning it. And, the Elite series by all accounts (I have never personally owned one) are great units.
> 
> As far as Sub EQ, I would agree - in the end, you can potentially get better results with REW and an EQ. However, there is quite a bit of testing and understanding of the results involved - hence, the niche for an AVR with software that gets you some / most of the way there. For those that do not wish to go through the testing involved, Sub EQ in your AVR could be a deal breaker IMO.


if i just manually change the subwoofer setting.. which currently continues to be put at -12..is there a limit i should worry about not surpassing ie not past -8 or -10..etc


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## popalock (May 19, 2012)

gocubs30 said:


> if i just manually change the subwoofer setting.. which currently continues to be put at -12..is there a limit i should worry about not surpassing ie not past -8 or -10..etc


Manually adjusting the sub level on the AVR does not equate to proper bass management. 

Tools such as XT32 and the SMS-1 allow the user to measure and adjust to compensate for room peaks and nulls. The goal is to flatten your frequency response. Meaning reducing "boomy" bass (peaks) and/or compensating for room "nulls" (absense of certain frequency).

Simply boosting the db level of your sub will not address these issues.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

gocubs30 said:


> if i just manually change the subwoofer setting.. which currently continues to be put at -12..is there a limit i should worry about not surpassing ie not past -8 or -10..etc


Not necessarily --- 

My first question is: What kind of sub are you using?

Typically, you'll want turn your subs volume (the volume knob on the back of the unit)... To somewhere between 9-12 o'clock. Just as an example HSU suggests 9 o'clock. Essentially, the halfway point shouldn't be exceeded!

Then, you set the sub volume on your AVR under manual Speaker set-up. If you have an SPL meter, aim for setting your sub about 3-5 decibels louder than your main/surround speakers. The manual sp set-up plays a test tone of white noise that you can use.If that doesn't sound good during normal playback, you can always tweak it later. If you don't have an SPL meter, you can buy one from Radio Shack for about 40 bucks (note, the radio shack SPL meters are about 1-2.5 dB off in low frequencies... So if you buy one you'll need to look up the correction or calibration tables to make adjustments).

Worst case, you can try adjusting by ear... Use the test tones on on the manual speaker set-up and try to make the sub slightly louder than the mains. But, honestly, I wouldn't go this route... Go get the meter. It's cheap and is nice to have because you can check the MCACC results for all of your other speaker results, too (you are aiming for the primary/surround speakers to output test tones from manual speaker adjustment at 75dB). MCACC is usually pretty accurate, but I have found it to be off by a dB here or there.

Essentially, the idea is: don't crank the volume knob on the back of your sub... Let the AVR be in control of the volume. This gives your sub more headroom to play those loud explosions without being overdriven.

Don't worry about your Elite not having any kind of sub-EQ software. Each to his own in this department, but I have read reviews and threads discussing the inexactness of Audyssey sub-EQ. Low ends getting boosted and causing distortion.... Nulls being boosted and losing headroom. 

If your sub sounds overly boomy, or lacking, start looking into ways to manually correct it. First and foremost, sub placement (do the sub crawl). Secondly, you can invest about 100 into a unit called the Behringer Feedback Destroyer... And use free software called REW. This allows you to equalize the sub as its heard at your listening position - it will give you better results to any automated sub equalizing software. If you find the REW software intimidating, you can buy the feedback destroyer and simply make the adjustment calculations using a Radio Shack SPL meter (there are detailed instructions on the net). At the end of the day, any sub-EQing should really only attack peaks in your room response. Trying to boost nulls is not a great idea. It reduces headroom and could cause your AVR to overdrive your sub and damage it.


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

27dnast said:


> Not necessarily ---
> 
> My first question is: What kind of sub are you using?
> 
> ...



thanks for the great information...i currently have the B&W asw 10cm for a subwoofer....the cm9s for floor, cm5 for surround and cm2 for the center channel


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Okay - looks like the sub has moderate power -- 10in woofer. Depending on your room size, you should be good to go. Really hard to say... but that is a whole other topic of debate! ;-)

As for your current situation:

Another method of fine tuning your volume level is to follow the instructions on page 6 of this HSU manual. You'll need a Radio Shack SPL and the correction values for low frequencies:

Look under: Volume Fine Tuning, page 6:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/manual/VTF-2MK4manual.pdf

correction values for the Radio Shack SPL:

http://www.hometheatrebasics.com/home-theatre-tools/radio-shack-meter-correction-chart/

(note: you may want to search online for your particular radio shack spl, I think there might be some variations).

Also, you can download (and burn) a test-tone cd (just do a google search) if you think you want to follow the volume fine tuning method in the HSU manual.

Good luck. Remember, you can always dial your sub in with test tones on the AVR... and, if you find yourself wanting a bit more sub during a movie, then simply turn up the volume on the back of the sub... then after watching the movie, turn it back to your calibration position.

I think this all should get you headed in the right direction. Sorry to hear it's been giving you some issues. Don't worry --- easily corrected!


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

^^^ just to clarify, when I say "dial in," I mean set the volume level... Not equalize! ;-)


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

27dnast said:


> ^^^ just to clarify, when I say "dial in," I mean set the volume level... Not equalize! ;-)


thank you for all the useful info..one of my last questions to you is i have to volume controls...one for volume speaker and the other says volume line.. from above posts it is my understanding to not put the volume speaker past the half way point.. should i set the volume line to max?


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If you have connected the SC57 subwoofer output to the ASW10 line in with an RCA cable it does not matter where the speaker level is set to.
I would set it to MIN just because that is where I would set it.
Since you are getting -12 on the sub channel when you run the cal turn the sub woofer VOLUME (line) level closer to MIN, everything will work the best if the VOLUME (line) on the sub is adjusted so the MCAAC sets the sub woofer channel trim close to zero.
The sub manual says to try these setting first.
On the sub set:
VOLUME (line) to 9:00 position
LOW PASS FILTER to OUT (with this set to out the LOW PASS KNOB has no effect)
BASS EXTENSION SWITCH to A (A allows sub to go to its lowest frequency)
EQ SWITCH (A if sub is in a corner, B if not in a corner)
PHASE 0


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

if i do not have a tripod and i have leater couch what are my best options for placement of mic for the mcacc


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

You'll need to figure out how to isolate that microphone about head level (when sitting) so that nothing holding the microphone is blocking sound as it nears the microphone. Also, if you do a multi-point calibration (MCACC has the option of calibrating for up to 3 positions in your room), then you'll need to make sure that your set-up is mobile!

Time to get creative!


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I put a 1/4" screw in mine and taped it to a stick,
I used throw pillows to hold it upright.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Try some stitching thread taped to the ceiling for each listening position. Sounds odd but it should work just fine.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Obviously you will want to measure each one so that the mic is at head level at each position.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Hey gocubs30,
Did you beat the system into submission?
Or are you still having trouble ?

You should be able to get really good sound quality with the gear you have.


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

chashint said:


> Hey gocubs30,
> Did you beat the system into submission?
> Or are you still having trouble ?
> 
> You should be able to get really good sound quality with the gear you have.


still a work in progress. ..though im starting to believe that part of it is the acoustics in the apt are not great..just a theory..that and from reading posts i shouldnt have to put my level for my sub past the midpoint ..and it seems i have to put it past the mid point to get it to perform well and it seems i still have to put the volume close to 0 ,


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Are you near Dallas, Texas ?


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

No wisconsin


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Hmm... Did you ever pick up an SPL meter? 

Room acoustics definitely can play a huge roll in how a system sounds. This is an extreme example, but you could take the best speakers in the world, stick them in a concrete stairwell, and they're going to sound like junk! ;-)

Have you done a sub crawl? Perhaps you sub sounds under powered just because it isn't placed correctly!


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

Not sure what a sub crawl.is and no still need to get the meter ...its my goal for the weekend to get one abd figure out how to use it


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

So I'm getting a spl meter this weekend ..what are the recommendations...ive heard radio shack ...are there better ones ?


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Google sub-crawl and do that first. You probably don't have the sub in an optimal location.

As for the SPL... Radio Shack makes a digital meter and an analog meter. I own the digital one. It will get the job done.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

gocubs30 said:


> No wisconsin


Thought I might could help you, but that is a little to far to drive :wave:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Where in Wisconsin are you?


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## gocubs30 (Jul 30, 2012)

New berlin..its near milwaukee


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