# help choosing a receiver



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

I am building Paul C's Swope tower and eventually the center and surrounds. According to the sim it hits 5ohms and above majority of the time with the exception of around 100-200hz it dips just below 4ohms and again at around 6000 hz. With that said, I need a receiver. I am looking for around the 175 to 225 range at accessories4less. Hdmi 1080p passthrough a must as well as decent calibration and lpf. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

It would not matter to me if your budget was $1k instead of $200 my advice is the same, look at everything in your price range from Denon, Pioneer, Onkyo and pick the one that has the most features you want and need.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

I understand that, I just don't want to purchase one, hook up my speakers and burn my receiver up. I think I would be safe regardless, its just those dips that worry me.


----------



## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Those dips could cause some issues with receivers in that budget range, a lot will depend on your room and volume level. Agree with chashint though, receivers from Onkyo, Yamaha, Denon and Pioneer in your price range will all be pretty comparable. The one advantage you'll have with Accessories4less is picking up an older model from a better series than your budget would allow if buying new. 

Any chance you could bump your budget up about $25? It will get you into some much better receivers.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

...^ +1



cajun_duck said:


> I am looking for around the 175 to 225 range at accessories4less. Hdmi 1080p passthrough a must as well as decent calibration and lpf. Any advice is greatly appreciated.


In my opinion, your specifications do not meet the demands of your budget.

(personally I hate these types of questions as it makes me into a buzz kill)

Example, room corrections software. Mediocre = Audyssey XT. Decent calibration = XT32 w/SubEQ HT. Decent room calibration software = lots of money.

The demands of the speakers are more than inexpensive AVR amplifiers are capable of dealing or keeping up with during loud or demanding play. A recommendation, check out bench tests that can be found at Audioholics and Sound and Vision to see what your choices are capable of, using real world testing methods.

Your speaker specifications are such, they're capable of sucking the life out of an inexpensive amplifier section and rob your handmade speakers of their life giving abilities. The point of my above, I don't want you badmouthing your beautiful, handcrafted speakers because you hooked them up to a soul stealing amplifier section.

(currently checking to see if i can find and make a few reasonable recommendation)

Checkout these units on A4L and see if any of them meet your needs. I linked to the first and last AVR on the list. I'm a fanboy of Denon and Marantz but through reading, I've found that Yamaha has excellent amplifier sections. I'm familiar with Audyssey XT and XT32 and have no knowledge of YPAO so someone else will have to weigh in on how good YPAO is or isn't.

So far, within your specifications, the Denon X1000 seems to be a good fit.

The Yamaha HTR-4066 specs out to 2ohm and seems like the money shot. See the amplifier section.

At A4L, it can be had for $244.44.

The Yamaha RX-V575 is fifty dollars more but for the upgrades, in my opinion, money well spent. It can be found at A4L for $299.99.

Hope the above helps.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

I can go to about 250 or 260ish. So, what makes the htr4066 better than the lower rv-x models? They all spec 2 ohms under "dynamic power.". For 299, what makes the 575 better? Sorry, just realized I forgot ti put running 5.1 at most eventually. Starting with 2.0, then 2.1, 3.1, and maybe 5.1. My living room is not that big. 14x16x8ft ceilings. Not tyring to be difficult, I am trying to learn.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> I can go to about 250 or 260ish. So, what makes the htr4066 better than the lower rv-x models? They all spec 2 ohms under "dynamic power.". For 299, what makes the 575 better?


The features and the amplifier section of the RX-V575 is better than the HTR-4066. Look to the backs of each unit so you can see how many inputs and outputs each receiver has. The HTR-4066 is fifty dollars less than the RX-V575.

Check out the links and the information they give on each as you're the final arbiter. I can only give some suggestions based on your posted specifications.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

BeeMan458 said:


> The features and the amplifier section of the RX-V575 is better than the HTR-4066. Look to the backs of each unit so you can see how many inputs and outputs each receiver has. The HTR-4066 is fifty dollars less than the RX-V575.
> 
> Check out the links and the information they give on each as you're the final arbiter. I can only give some suggestions based on your posted specifications.


And it is GREATLY appreciated.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> And it is GREATLY appreciated.


My pleasure.

I wish I could give insight but I'm out of my element with these receivers. The best I can do is look at your specifications, check out AVR specs with what I know and comeback with suggestions as I think I understand what you're asking.

I would suggest checking into the differences between Audyssey MultEQ XT and Yamaha YPAO so as to find out which is better for your needs.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

cajun_duck said:


> I understand that, I just don't want to purchase one, hook up my speakers and burn my receiver up. I think I would be safe regardless, its just those dips that worry me.


I understand this too.
The impedance dip at 6kHz should not be a problem since the tweeter requires so much less power to achieve high SPL.
If the dip at 100-200Hz is just under 4ohms (3.8 - 3.9 ??) you will probably still be fine.
A lot depends on how loud you like to play it but chances are it's going to work fine.

I remember seeing a Charlie Brown comic one year near Christmas, the little sister wanted to buy presents and asked Lionus for help. First question was how much money do you have, "5 cents", Lionus told her that's not enough and the little girl said, "it has to be, that's all I have".

I try to be respectful of budgets especially when funds appear to be limited.
Most of these are under budget and I think you can get quite a bit for your money these days.
Any of these should do fine.

http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-E30...=sr_1_21?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1401567350&sr=1-21 

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V46...=sr_1_22?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1401567350&sr=1-22 

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-8...=sr_1_30?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1401567887&sr=1-30

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V37...=sr_1_40?s=aht&ie=UTF8&qid=1401567887&sr=1-40

http://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-RX-V377-5-1-Channel-Theater-Receiver/dp/B00HZE2WW8/ref=dp_ob_title_ce


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

BeeMan458 said:


> My pleasure.
> 
> I wish I could give insight but I'm out of my element with these receivers. The best I can do is look at your specifications, check out AVR specs with what I know and comeback with suggestions as I think I understand what you're asking.
> 
> I would suggest checking into the differences between Audyssey MultEQ XT and Yamaha YPAO so as to find out which is better for your needs.


I'm leaning more towards the Denon due to Audyssey, my main concern is will it be able to handle the 4ohm load and the spike that dip down at the mentioned freq.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The links Beeman gave are better than mine, the Denon 1000 is a real bargain.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

chashint said:


> The links Beeman gave are better than mine, the Denon 1000 is a real bargain.


I think you were typing your message with the links at the same time I was typing mine. LOL.

Thanks for all of the help and opinions guys. It is a great help and very appreciated. You know, I started a thread very similar to this about 2 weeks ago on another "popular" forum, and to this day I am the only person to respond to it. Oh well.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> I'm leaning more towards the Denon due to Audyssey, my main concern is will it be able to handle the 4ohm load and the spike that dip down at the mentioned freq.


As pointed out by chashint, if you're not trying to reach reference, yes but from my experience with a Marantz SR5007, it won't have enough giddy-up to keep you at full on reference. If all you want out of the deal is peaks of +90dB to +95dB you should be fine. Above that and the system might choke on you.



> You know, I started a thread very similar to this about 2 weeks ago on another "popular" forum, and to this day I am the only person to respond to it.


Well, that's sure to put starch in your shorts. Glad we were able to give some suggestions.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

BeeMan458 said:


> As pointed out by chashint, if you're not trying to reach reference, yes but from my experience with a Marantz SR5007, it won't have enough giddy-up to keep you at full on reference. If all you want out of the deal is peaks of +90dB to +95dB you should be fine. Above that and the system might choke on you.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's sure to put starch in your shorts. Glad we were able to give some suggestions.


I'm not trying for the whole neighborhood to hear me, I just want enough to sit back and enjoy. I still want to be able to hear afterwards.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

BeeMan458 said:


> As pointed out by chashint, if you're not trying to reach reference, yes but from my experience with a Marantz SR5007, it won't have enough giddy-up to keep you at full on reference. If all you want out of the deal is peaks of +90dB to +95dB you should be fine. Above that and the system might choke on you.
> 
> 
> 
> Well, that's sure to put starch in your shorts. Glad we were able to give some suggestions.


+90 to +95 is pretty loud if I'm correct.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

How large is your room ?


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> +90 to +95 is pretty loud if I'm correct.


Depends on how deaf you are. 

Peak theater sound is in the +90dB to +95dB range. They have been known to go louder but only for a moment and then back down again.

Our system is much more capable but we listen at -17.5dBFS with the subs jacked up +10dB and the center channel jacked up +7dB. Very nice. Clear voice from the center channel and lots of rumble and roll but we're not being blasted out of the room with the rest of the speakers.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

chashint said:


> How large is your room ?


1750^3 ft. pretty small room

Plus, I am confused about this in the Yamaha specs:

Dynamic Power per Channel (8/6/4/2 ohms)


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

On that line in the Yamaha specs the numbers you quoted are speaker impedance values, just to the right are a series of numbers that are peak power output in watts at each impedance value.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

chashint said:


> On that line in the Yamaha specs the numbers you quoted are speaker impedance values, just to the right are a series of numbers that are peak power output in watts at each impedance value.


I found my answer, just didn't get a chance to edit it.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

This is the impedance curve for the Swope Towers. I think I read that the sensitivity is around 88db.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The electrical characteristics for these speakers has always been the same, so why are you now worried about the AVR.

I see nothing scary about those impedance curves.
In my opinion (just an educated guess since test data is not available) any of the AVRs Beeman linked to at accessories4less will do a fine job for you and these reconditioned AVRs are well below MSRP so you are getting a considerably higher grade unit than what you would be able to purchase at retail.
Accesories4less has a stellar reputation in regards to selling these factory reconditioned units.
Pick the one you like the best, based on the features you need/want.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> This is the impedance curve for the Swope Towers. I think I read that the sensitivity is around 88db.


I know pretty much nothing about impedance curves. That being said, working with chashint's above comments, if <80Hz bass is managed over to a pair of decently performing subwoofers, expectedly, that left curve will be a concern of the past. The right curve, being that we're dealing with "transient response," will be fractionally or momentary. It's doubtful you'd notice if listening at -10dB or -15dBFS. Again, our system? We listen at -17.5dBFS, which is loud enough for the wife and although I'm okay with it, I'd like a bit louder as I'm more a -10dBFS kinda guy. As always, WAF trumps that of the husband.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

Thanks guys. Yeah, actually I'm running a 15" in a sealed enclosure, so bass isn't even close to being an issue.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> Thanks guys. Yeah, actually I'm running a 15" in a sealed enclosure, so bass isn't even close to being an issue.


Based on your specification and multiple statements above, you're ready to go to the next step.....the shopping cart. 

Good-luck!

...:clap:


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The music can be heard outside of the house when I turn it up to -10.
It is very loud in the room.
I seldom play it that loud, but sometimes when it's just me at home I have been known play a little Pink Floyd or Rush or maybe a few others a little loud for a little while.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

chashint said:


> The electrical characteristics for these speakers has always been the same, so why are you now worried about the AVR.
> 
> I see nothing scary about those impedance curves.
> In my opinion (just an educated guess since test data is not available) any of the AVRs Beeman linked to at accessories4less will do a fine job for you and these reconditioned AVRs are well below MSRP so you are getting a considerably higher grade unit than what you would be able to purchase at retail.
> ...


I took a look at mt tv and old receiver and realized I needed a new one (plus I want one...lol), then I started researching and the more I researched the more confused and worried I became due to the dips and not being well versed in receivers and what they can safely handle. I just need to decide on the denon or yammie now.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> I just need to decide on the denon or yammie now.


On your above, my recommendation is to go with that which makes you feel all warm and fuzzy at night.

If you're a Yammie man, then go with the Yammie as they make excellent amplifier sections. If you're a Denon/Marantz man, then go with the X1000 as Denon makes excellent amplifier sections. If you're a YPAO kinda guy, go with Yammie. If you're a Audyssey XT kinda guy, go with Denon.

If you're unsure, flip a coin five times, turn around, bark at what ever you're facing and go with the winner of the five coin, coin toss as no matter which direction you go, you'll be a happy camper.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Both look like great bang for the buck on the reconditioned units.

I have no experience with Yamaha or YAPO, my brother has a Denon 1912 and he really likes the dynamic EQ.
I think it sounds unnatural at first but I get used to it quickly enough when I visit.


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

X1000 ordered brand new on Amazon for 299. Sweet! Thanks for the help fellas.


----------



## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

cajun_duck said:


> X1000 ordered brand new on Amazon for 299. Sweet! Thanks for the help fellas.


Congratulations.

...:T

Pics and first impression report will be expected. That's some exciting stuff.

...:T


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

cajun_duck said:


> X1000 ordered brand new on Amazon for 299. Sweet! Thanks for the help fellas.


Very nice.
I am confident you will get a lot of enjoyment from it.
What tilted the scale in favor of the Denon?

How is the speaker build progressing?
Is there a projected completion date on them ?


----------



## cajun_duck (May 23, 2011)

chashint said:


> Very nice.
> I am confident you will get a lot of enjoyment from it.
> What tilted the scale in favor of the Denon?
> 
> ...


Mainly audessey.

Really slow, been too busy lately.


----------

