# Green Glue Application



## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Well, I finally decided to order a bunch of green glue to isolate the wall between me and my noisy neighbor. The alarm clock of Death Metal every morning at 6:30 really iced it.

My wife commented last week: "He seems to be much quieter now, maybe he got the hint." To which I replied, "Honey, he's be gone for a week on a business trip." 

Ah, townhouse living.

Anyway, I am ordering 12 tubes from bpape (you've got mail) and we'll probably end up starting this in a couple of weeks.

Some preliminary questions:
1) 1/2" or 5/8" drywall? The current construction is two layers of 5/8" firewall drywall on my side and presumably the same on my neighbors. I know I have the double layer because we measured it once when putting the theater in the basement. Whether or not my neighbor has the same is unknown.

5/8" would obviously be heavier, but also would end up having the same resonance as the layers underneath it. 1/2" would be lighter, but would spread out the resonances.

2) Green glue application: I see demo pictures of a random pattern, applied pretty thoroughly. Would there be any advantage of using a brayer (glue/ink spreader) to get a consistent thin layer on the whole panel, or is it better to have separate beads randomly all over the place? I can see the advantages both ways.

3) If I can get paperless drywall, would that have any effect?

Thanks in advance! We may be able to actually sleep in soon!


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Hi Anthony.

I'd do the 5/8 anyway. The 2 layers below will act as one if the glued it together so they'll have a different resonance anyway. Realistically, the difference between 1/2 and 5/8 for any resonance issues is far outweighed by the additional mass.

Just drizzle it as they show. It will spread out on it's own. Trust me, they tried it a bunch of different ways during testing and this is what Audio Alloy recommends. 

Also remember that this may not be a full solution for your issues. There are other places where sound is leaking I'm sure. Think about doing your outlet boxes in putty before you do the new drywall too for example. Also, the Green Glue takes almost a full 30 days to really cure and become it's most effective.

Bryan


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

It's on a firewall, so no outlet boxes to worry about. The wall is just one big pure sheet.

And I understand the cure time aspect, so not to worry. Would it be better NOT to paint for a week or two to allow faster curing? I imagine priming and painting would inhibit any sort of air flow/diffusion to aid the curing process.

Thanks for the help.

Anthony


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

You might want to check out the lower level where the joists meet the floor above it. There is probably one area that is defeating the soundproofing the existing firewall should be providing. You could assume that if you have double 5/8ths drywall that your neighbor would also. The shared wall would also be a double wall if built to code. The STC rating is probably pretty high on that shared wall and adding another layer of drywall is not going to do too much more than what the existing wall is already doing unless there is a flaw in its construction.

If this is an upper floor thing, then it could be the attic that's the problem. I lived in a townhouse at one point and was shocked to find out that the entire attic was shared without any dividers. Pretty crazy I know, but seeing it was quite the wake up call to move out. That wouldn't pass building codes these days. There is supposed to be a 2-hour fire rated barrier all the way up to the roof. Even if your place is not in that extreme there could be gaps and minimal separation between you and the neighbors from the attic.

I'd confront your neighbor the next time it happens (or call the super or cops if it's at 6:30 in the morning). Or do the same to him at 4:00 in the morning (put the sub right up against the shared wall in a corner).


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

I know the attic is separated. Don't know if the sound is coming through the floor. Next time I hear it, I will feel the floor and see if it's vibrating as much as the wall.

You can definitely feel the wall vibrating,though. So i'm pretty sure this Green Glue stuff will help.

We're pretty non-confrontational -- if this fixes it all,then great. However, if the problem persists, I may have to mount a transducer on his wall and send him subliminal messages :devil:


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Okay, well the 5/8" rock went up with the green glue (2 tubes per 4x8 sheet). So far the results are mixed, but it's only been 2 full days and nothing's been taped yet.

Voices and music are greatly attenuated. However, bass is not. There's a range between 60 and 500 hz that seems to still get through pretty loud. Again, only a few days have passed. We decided not to blow through the insulation for a couple of reasons: one, the paper stuff is completely dry and I read about major settling problems (the wet stuff cures and is much better but that's for new construction). We also did not want to fiddle with fiberglass there.

Will the taping and mud help things? At what point will we know if the green glue helped? Thankfully he obliges us by being noisy all the time so I'll know when it starts taking effect (grand theft auto part last night at 2 am -- closest we came to calling the cops, but miraculously we fell asleep).

Also, if there is transmission through the floor or ceiling, what can be done about it? We're getting new carpeting, so I will have access to the subfloor for a while.

Thanks.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

The Green Glue takes a full month to really fully cure. Deep deep bass is going to continue to be an issue until the walls are insulated - sorry. What you have is an undamped drum. You just damped one of the heads but the other side and the cavity is still resonating freely.

Bryan


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Hmmm, well, we haven't painted or taped yet, so if I was going to insulate anyway I still can. Plus I have a ton of extra 5/8 drywall (I had to buy a full sheet to use 3"x 48" in one part).

Since I only have 6 stud bays to fill, I may just do it by hand.

Any thoughts on fiberglass versus cellulose?


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Well, this is as they say, where the plot thickens.

So now I'm thinking I need to add insulation, so I drill a hole 2" diameter with a hole saw to see what's what, where fireblocking is, etc.

Turns out, there's already insulation in the wall. It looks like 2" to 3" thick bats attached to the far (neighbors) studs, with a 3" air gap until my drywall. Edit: upon further reflection, it looks like they put bats designed for 2x4 cavities inside a 2x6 wall -- that explains the amount of fiberglass and air gap). So now I'm thinking I can't blow insulation in, but there's obviously some damping in there. 

Ugh, now where to look? I do appreciate all the help.

I'm finding this a great exercise. We're not going to be in this house forever and our next house is either going to be new construction or a renovation job -- so best to learn on the starter house.


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## Betty Woo (Jan 27, 2009)

Floatin' 'round the interwebs and this thread popped up.

Left me wondering, though, if the OP's experiences post-'a few days' made the cost of Green Glue worth it because I'm looking to use it in my situation.

I've got a lovely neighbour (sorry, Canadian. We spell differently) who was terrific when she was working a 6PM - 2AM shift and now is making me a bit neurotic since she's been off and waiting for a back operation.

The building is pretty dodgey construction - I'm sure there's no staggered or separate studs between our walls and the gyprock's pretty cheap and thin, too. It is what it is... .

The sounds I hear are muffled-but-annoying normal-volume TV, pulling and pushing of drawers and almost every step she takes on these weird marmoleum floors of ours. I'm sure I'd hear voices (if she had friends over. She's a bit of a hermit - which works for me, I guess, but I hear voices on the other side of my apartment with my other neighbour so I'm sure voices would carry).

And, since I'm trying to be such a good neighbour, I have my small TV far away from the shared wall and always on low volume. But it's also my bedroom and she's still on that wacky late-to-bed, late-to-rise schedule while I'm trying to hit the sack by 11:30 so I'm really noticing the noise now.

In any case, I figure a couple of layers of 5/8" gyprock and Green Glue should be enough for the shared 10" x 16" wall (or it may be overkill... maybe you guys can tell me).

Strangely, for all the talk around Green Glue when it first sort of hit the streets a few years ago, I haven't read a whole lot of user reviews on independent websites so I'm always looking for those. I know the Green Glue site uses a lot of impressive numbers but I always prefer hearing from actual users how things are turning out for them.

So... any personal experiences with this stuff (and would this really be overkill for my situation)?

Thank you kindly.

Oh, yeah. The landlord would *love* for me to improve his apartment by doing this and I have his wholehearted (and closed-walleted) permission to do this.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

Welcome to the Shack!

As someone who used this in your exact situation, I can say that I'm a bit disappointed in it.

I have 2, 5/8" drywall, but no staggered studs, so the two units are wall to wall. We added another 5/8" layer with green glue, caulked every seam, mud, and tape, and painted. My wife says it's better but I can still hear quite a bit of noise. Maybe I was expecting too much, but the sound definitely shorts through. I don't know if it's ceiling, floor, or it's just so loud that the attenuation barely did anything.

That being said, I helped someone use this in an office where he tests speakers and results were much better. Now that was keeping sound in more, but it definitely worked.

So it MAY help, but there are a lot of things to consider as well. And as far as cost goes, it's one of the cheapest options.

Good luck.


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## Betty Woo (Jan 27, 2009)

She's now listening to some war movie. Lots of explosions and tanks running around.

I gotta get Green Glue... .

Um... are you still hearing sort of 'regular' noise (like reasonable TV sounds and such) or only over-the-top Death Metal alarms?

. I don't need complete silence (well. That would be nice but...) but this TV thing will slowly drive me nuts because it's so unpredictable.

And I just found out today her back operation is next week and then she'll be incapacitated and homebound for at least three months.

Yikes.


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## Anthony (Oct 5, 2006)

It used to be intelligible dialouge. Now it is muffled. Music and computer noises are heard, but you can't really tell what they are. Drawers, coughs (he's a smoker), and doors come through loud and clear.

But again, in my situation, the floor and ceiling are probably shunting the sound through. Not the Green Glue's fault, but frustrating, because there's nothing I can do about it. Now the wife and I are saving up for a house that doesn't touch the neighbor's  I'll check back in a couple of years when we move 

It is probably worth a try. It can't hurt and it will definitely muffle some sounds. Apparently it's enough for my wife. But what gets through still wakes me up, so to each their own.


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## Betty Woo (Jan 27, 2009)

Oh, man.

I'm in the same situation you are, then. I bet the sound will just travel via these floors and ceilings and at about $18 a tube and 2 tubes per sheet and two layers... .

Maybe I should do one layer + Green Glue and try that for a month to see how much change there is 'cause I'm looking at about $180CA per layer just of Green Glue.

If I'm happy with the what that result will be, great! I can start on my next project - using Green Glue and a sound barrier below new laminate floors I'd like to install.

If there's a noticeable change (but not enough), I'll fork over more $$ for another Green Glue + gyprock layer. 

If I'm pretty happy with it and just want to tweak it a bit more, a second layer of just 5/8" gyprock may be enough.

Unless... anyone else wants to chime in?


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

What kind of dwelling is it? Townhome, a converted house, etc? 

Like others have said, there could be sound flanking at some point in the construction so any work you do will not stop all of the noise. I'm sure it wouldn't hurt, and for $180 it's a minimal expense.

Are the walls plaster and lathe or drywall and studs? Is it a load bearing wall? 

If it's plaster you might want to consider pulling it off and doing a double layer of 5/8 drywall. You could insulate the cavity at the same time also. That would certainly raise your costs though and make a huge mess. 

Technically multi-dwelling building should have a firewall between them that consists of at least double 5/8 drywall on either side and double wall construction. That saves lives when one side burns.

If you were to reno too much you might get your landlord in hot water with the city inspector. They would probably want a permit. The way they would find out would be if your neighbour or the next tenant (not that they would know but...) complained.

Best bet is to move to a newer building if it's an option.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Betty Woo said:


> Oh, man.
> 
> I'm in the same situation you are, then. I bet the sound will just travel via these floors and ceilings and at about $18 a tube and 2 tubes per sheet and two layers... .
> 
> ...


How are you going to do Green Glue without another layer of drywall? The way GG works is to act as a viscoelastic dampling layer between 2 massive layers. 

I agree completely that you need to identify where and how the sound is travelling. Your wall SHOULD be insulated. Sometimes they don't do the floors and ceilings though forn an insulation standpoint - and that is also necessary.

Bryan


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## Betty Woo (Jan 27, 2009)

MatrixDweller said:


> What kind of dwelling is it? Townhome, a converted house, etc?
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ...


Stud wall with gyprock - every wall in this building is load-bearing. It's a lovely badly-made building and anything helping to keep the roof up is going to stay just where it is. As for codes? Hmmm. Yeah. In theory, codes are good. In this reality... . Let's just say I would be extremely surprised if there was any insulation or double wall construction. These apartments date from the late '60s/early '70s and were converted from offices. And at these rents, there's no way in any of us tenants are going to do anything to jeopardize our beloved landlord. And my neighbours can't imagine living anywhere else. We really do like our apartments and we've always been pretty quiet people. 

Moving is not an option. It just isn't. Worse case scenario: 2xing up on gyprock (sans Green Glue) and live with the consequences. And I'm sure my neighbour wouldn't be opposed to turning down the TV after 11PM. But if I can eliminate as much noise as possible within a reasonable budget, neither one of us would have to be affected by things like noise annoyances.

I figure about 10 - 12 tubes should do one layer. The wall's about 10 x 16 so that's 5 sheets (plus 1 just for the of it).


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## Betty Woo (Jan 27, 2009)

bpape said:


> How are you going to do Green Glue without another layer of drywall? The way GG works is to act as a viscoelastic dampling layer between 2 massive layers.


Present gyprock + layer of Green Glue + 1st new layer of gyprock. See if that works. If a bit more is needed, 1st new layer of gyprock + 2nd layer of Green Glue + 2nd new layer of gyprock.



bpape said:


> I agree completely that you need to identify where and how the sound is travelling. Your wall SHOULD be insulated. Sometimes they don't do the floors and ceilings though forn an insulation standpoint - and that is also necessary.


I'm pretty sure the floors and ceiling aren't insulated. This isn't a well-made modern building. And I'm in Vancouver - home of some pretty lousy housing construction problems in the last few decades... .

If I'm happy with the noise reduction, my next spendy thing will be to put down some good non-clicky laminate floors in the bedroom. I'd definitely put down some kind of damper layer on the marmoleum first... I can't see myself doing an entire floor in Green Glue, though. But any decent dampener method should help to quiet some things down. The ceiling? I'm not touching that job and there's only so much money I'm willing to spend on a rental, beloved landlord or not.

Really... I'm not expecting miracles like total silence (not, you know, that I wouldn't mind that) but lessing the noise from noticeable to background white noise would be nice.

But I appreciate the OP's feedback on his experiences post-one-month-on. When I hear rave reviews from people who don't have actual experience, it just makes me wonder. I always feel more comfortable hearing pros/cons of an experience so I don't get disappointed.

Thank you for the feedback and comments.

Much appreciated.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Yes - that application will work.

Honestly, I'd see what you can do to verify and correct the insulation situation first.

Bryan


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## YetAnotherDave (Jul 7, 2009)

Well it's been a few months now Betty, how's your soundproofing turned out?

Also curious where you sourced Green Glue in vancouver, I'm about to start a similar project (tho we're the noisy ones - hoping to keep the sound of my cello from driving new neighbours nuts)


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## Betty Woo (Jan 27, 2009)

My neighbour came home from physio after ten weeks and it was reaaaaallllyyy quiet. It's the weirdest thing. I never hear anything from her apartment through my walls. The sometimes creaky floors give away that she's in there but that's it. I don't know if she had her TV moved into her bedroom or she suddenly became a born-again reader. Just... quiet.

So the immediate need for this whole sound insulation project just completely evaporated (and saved me a couple of hundred $$ because I was *not* going to buy, deliver and install sheetrock anything myself).

I called someone in Vancouver who supplied Green Glue. Somewhere in Burnaby, close to Boundary Road and Broadway, I think. I want to say Dryco because, well, I have an email from a Dryco salesman who I guess I was talking to and he offered me a couple of contractor's names. But I just went to the site and 'green glue' isn't anywhere to be found so I'm not sure how there's a connection, now.

I'm really sorry I can't be more help than that.

I hope you write back about your experiences. I may just need to revisit this again if something wacky happens to her and the noise starts up again. There's also some undetermined store opening up in a vacant storefront downstairs in the next building that may cause problems. Last store there thought it would be really cool to have a DJ (!!) in a 25 X 15 store until 1AM 4 days a week. But I guess that kind of noise runs up throughout the whole building and unless I Green Glue the out of everything, the tribe-y vibe-y musak will get to me every time :yikes:

Lord, I hope it's a $1-a-slice-a-pizza joint... .


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