# Receiver advice for my definitives?



## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

Looking for a new receiver for my setup. Currently have a onkyo tx-sr606. Just doesn't seem like my system sounds as good as i would think/like. 


I have a large great room 24 x 20. I would say this setup is used for 30% games, 50 % tv/movies(but more tv), 20 % music.

I have a 7.1 setup
all definitive
mythos 1-fronts
mythos 3-center
and my surrounds are
bp2x and studio 450's
supercube 2 sub

panny 58 plasma

I would spend up to a grand on a new reciever-thinking of the denon avr-3310ci

what would be your opinion?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Onkyo still offers the best bang for your buck, the 606 is still in there low end receiver section stepping up to at least the Onkyo 807 would be my best recommendation. Even better would be this Onkyo 906 I know that pushes your budget but is by far the best deal you can find for that kind of money.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

But is the receiver really going to make his system sound better? I don't think the difference will be noticeable, unless the deficiencies are related to lack of power.

Before I'd recommend a new receiver, I'd ask you some questions:

In what area is you sound lacking? Clarity at high volumes? Bass impact? A sense of envelopment in from surround sources? A lack of a coherent sound-stage with 2 channel sources?


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

would seem to be a clarity and also power issue. A lot of the time i need to have the volume toward the upper range and would thing that hurts the clarity some.

This is one of the reason i am asking others for advice.

maybe some has close to the same setup.

open for any suggestions.

thanks in advance


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

How large a space are you trying to fill with the mythos speakers?
Edit: 24X20 is a very large space for you to expect the current speaker system you have to fill it properly without distortion.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

It's possible that, as you increase output, you are increasing distortion, but you'd really have to be towards the top end of your output range.

I'd recommend the free fixes first. Play around with seating and speaker position. Re-run Audyssey EQ.

After that, consider all the things that may be affecting your system. One that is often overlooked is acoustic room treatment. Bookcases can be free diffusion, curtains something resembling absorption. Neither will be as good as professional products, but can give you an idea of potential benefit.

If you still think it's the AVR that's the problem (I have a 706 and don't think it poses any sort of bottleneck in an open room 14x15), I'd recommend considering purchasing an AVR with pre-outs and an outboard amp from Emotiva or similar. No sense in spending more money only to upgrade again, and again, and again in search of more power.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I don't think the Mythos, from their specs, crossed over at 80hz should be incapable of filling the room with distortion-free sound, but I have not personally heard them. This is just judging from their driver configuration and know build quality (which isn't the greatest, but should be more than adequate).

Are you crossing them over at 80hz, or running the towers full range?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I would definitely recommend the TX-NR1007. It weighs 51 pounds compared to the 3310's 28.6 pounds.
The difference in power is real and noticeable. The Onkyo's Power Consumption is rated at 11.6 amps.
For comparisons sake, the 3310 is rated at 7.0 amps. Power Consumption is a true indicator of an AVR's power. Granted, you are not usually going to be running at full tilt, but it is nice to know you have the power reserves when you do want to playback a reference levels.

Moreover, the 1007 offers THX Ultra2 Plus Certification and processing, individual calibration for 2 Subwoofers via Audyssey, 9 channels of amplification, and much more.

The TX-NR1007 is available B-Stock from Accessories4less for 899. If B-Stock's cause concern, the 1007 is available from Newegg for 1079 and includes a free iPod Dock. Both are Authorized Onkyo Dealers.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

yes front 80, per chet from definitive

i would say most the time i have volume 50-60(max is 70), just to give an idea


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

jj

does this receiver have the temp issues of other onkyo(including my current)


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Any receiver with the kind of specifications that the Onkyos have will get warm. Ventilation is key to keeping them at a decent operating temp. Jack is recommending a good receiver as well. 
My issue with the mythos1's is that they only use two 5.5" drivers and for a space of that size running at 70% volume would be hard on them.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I use a TX-SR875 that is probably one of the hottest running Onkyo AVR's of them all. I have never had thermal issues. I must admit I am not using the amplifiers in the 875 and am using it strictly as a SSP.
Regardless, for a time, I had my 875 setup in a BDI Deploy Max rack with such a tight clearance that I had to remove the feet to make it fit and never did the unit shut down.

While Onkyo's run warm, the instances of thermal shutdown or failure are unbelievably low. I have followed this across multiple Forums and User Groups. Many Onkyo bashers use this as justification for their chosen Brand because Onkyo offers so many more features and power for the money.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

tony,

that was my assumption also

that is why i thought something in the 120+ watts vs the 90 will make the system run more effecient. Which in turn =better.

but,

does it justify the grand?
will it sound much better..........


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If you are currently using an Onkyo 600 Series, the TX-NR1007 will be a major upgrade. Not only are you getting a much more powerful Amplifier, you are getting a far more powerful Audyssey EQ (MultEQ XT in the 1007 versus 2EQ in the 606), THX Processing, preamp outputs, Internet Radio, and much more.

Audyssey MultEQ XT is really amazing in what it can do. While 2EQ is nice, MultEQ XT offers a great deal more processing power. Moreover, I really am a huge fan of THX Processing and think you will enjoy it as well.

The good thing is if you are not blown away by the difference, you can always return it. While you will be out shipping if doing so, it is not a huge outlay of cash. However, I really think you will be quite pleased with the 1007.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

is it worth the couple hundred bucks to get the 1107 over the 807?

only going to run 7.1


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yes, the 1007 has more to offer you including much better power supply and amps.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I really do think the 1007 is cut above. THX Ultra2 Plus certified where the 807 is THX Select2 Plus and also even if not using all channels, you will have more power for the 7 channels.

Ultra2 Plus certification is far more stringent than Select 2 Plus. A huge indicator of the 1007's power reserves is that it is rated at 11.6 amps whereas the 807 is rated at 7.8 amps. Power Consumption ratings are really important in ascertaining an AVR's true power reserves. Mind you this is max consumption and that the 1007 will not use all of that power unless driven at absolutely full tilt. Regardless, the 1007 has a much stronger Amplifier Section.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

have you heard much about the refurbs?

could get with the cashback for about 825...sounds appealing, but dont have any experience with the refurbs

but a savings over 200 does sound appealing


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Refurbs are nothing to worry about.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I completely agree with Marshall. I have helped dozens purchase and setup HT's built around B-Stock Onkyo's and have never had any issues. Everyone I have opened up looks absolutely Brand New. The only difference I have noticed as that the box is different. You still have an Onkyo Warranty and can add additional years if concerned. Accessories4less has a great price on the 1007.

Again, if wary of B-Stocks, Newegg has it for 1079 and includes a free iPod Dock.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Matteo (Jul 12, 2006)

Hey JJ,
Are you thinking it is an amp problem? What would you think of just getting a dedicated amp that would be good now and always? I know the EQ is better on the 1007, but just curious about your opinion on the amp. I have a dedicated amp I picked up used for around $400 and I love it. Not sure it does anything, but I know I am not underpowered. I like the idea of the 1007, but interested what you would think about the amp.
Matteo


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If using the Amplification in the AVR, I would go with the 1007. If you are using a 2 channel Amplifier for your Mains, it does change the situation. As it reduces the amount of channels driven by the AVR used, you can use a lower powered AVR and still have plenty of headroom.

I am a big fan of outboard amplification. A dedicated Amplifier just has power reserves that most AVR's cannot come close to. I am a big fan of the 1007/3007/5007 Series.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jason_Nolan (Jul 4, 2008)

Is your room treated?

I also have a definitive system, and when I turned it up it would completely overload the room and the sound became completely oversaturated and unclear.

Once treated it really brought things in focus.

Not sure if this is your situation or not?


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## Jason_Nolan (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm also of the opinion that a new receiver will not help you either. The definitive speaker line has a very high sensitivity rating. I doubt 120 watts will make a huge difference over 90w.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Going from the 606 to a 1007 will not only give more power. It will give a much more powerful version of Audyssey with MultEQ XT over the 2EQ in the 606. Moreover, THX Processing really is excellent.

However, especially with 7 channels driven, the power difference between a 606 and 1007 is going to be more than 30 watts. In addition, either the 807 or 1007 will give Internet Radio and the ability to add an external Amplifier should different Speakers be chosen later on.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

not sure what you mean by treated?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Jason is referring to Room Treatments. This includes Bass Traps and other Acoustic Panels that help maximize the sound of your Room. Room Treatments can make a huge difference in sound as the acoustics of the Room which your HT is setup makes a huge difference in overall sound.

Room EQ's like Audyssey's MultEQ help to make your room sound as good as possible, but RT's are complimentary and do make a difference.
Cheers,
JJ


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## 1fife (Apr 7, 2010)

is there a good site to gather information about these room treatments?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

1fife said:


> is there a good site to gather information about these room treatments?


Hello,
There are tons of articles out there, but here is a good one: http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/140/

I am also a big fan of Jonathan Scull's "Fine Tunes" Articles on Stereophile which are available on the Website for free. These articles are about budget Room Treatments.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jason_Nolan (Jul 4, 2008)

If you're handy you can make them yourself. There is plenty of websites dedicated to DIY room treatments and instructions. If you're pressed for time, there's plenty of people that are willing to sell them to you. 

GIK
Realtraps
Acoustic sciences corp
Ready acoustics

These are some sites you can google to find info. Almost all of these sites has a FAQ sheet and documentation. They also provide people to help you if you give them pictures, room dimensions, setup, and a budget.

Bryan Pape from GIK is a platinum supporter here. He can provide a lot of help to you.

I have Audessey and room treatments. Both are great, but if you had to pick, my opinion is the room treatments should be first and EQ is kind of the icing on the cake.

My guess, if you're having the same problems I did with Definitive bipolars and a very lively room, is that the louder you turn it up the less clear and coherent it gets. You probably have a lack of focus and soundstage. Also, bass is probably hit or miss depending where you sit. All these a culprit of room acoustics and EQ can do little for this issue.

What you can expect is more detail and location with improved bass across more seating positions, as modes are causing peaks or eliminations. 

Don't waste your money on a new receiver to get better sound, you'll only get better features. Speakers and acoustics get you the most bang for your buck to get better sound. Electronics do help, but money is better spent elseware.

My 2 cents...


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Jonathan Scull's "Fine Tunes" has many articles that are DIY and or low cost solutions for Room Treatments. In addition to other ways to get the most out of the equipment you have.

Jason, it is excellent that you bring up Room Treatment as the acoustics of the Room itself and the effects it has on overall SQ are profound. However, it is an area which many lose sight of. 

Having used Electrostatic Speakers for the past 14 years, it has been a major part of the continual evolution of my Home Theater. With ESL Speakers, Room Treatments and proper setup are especially important for getting the best possible sound. I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked why my Speakers are over 4 feet in front of the Back Wall..
Cheers,
JJ


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

I had a problem with distortion in my definitve's, (BP7002's), running on a lower end Denon 1909. When I stepped up to the Pioneer Elite SC-05 that has the ICE Power, all my problems were resolved. I've heard great things about the Onkyo's but in a side by side comparison I personally preferred the SC-05 and couldn't afford the Integra. Of course I was in the right place at the right time because the SC-05 was cleared out in March 09' for the new SC-25 model so I got it for $800. You can usually find the newer SC-25's for between $1,000 and $1,300 on line but it sounds like the Onkyo TX-NR1007 that Jack references has more options than the SC-25 such as THX Ultra-2 VS. Pioneer's THX Select Plus for several hundred dollars less. My overall suggestion would be to go listen to several options in these model ranges and then go online and find the best price.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

dsr7997 said:


> I had a problem with distortion in my definitve's, (BP7002's), running on a lower end Denon 1909. When I stepped up to the Pioneer Elite SC-05 that has the ICE Power, all my problems were resolved. I've heard great things about the Onkyo's but in a side by side comparison I personally preferred the SC-05 and couldn't afford the Integra. Of course I was in the right place at the right time because the SC-05 was cleared out in March 09' for the new SC-25 model so I got it for $800. You can usually find the newer SC-25's for between $1,000 and $1,300 on line but it sounds like the Onkyo TX-NR1007 that Jack references has more options than the SC-25 such as THX Ultra-2 VS. Pioneer's THX Select Plus for several hundred dollars less. My overall suggestion would be to go listen to several options in these model ranges and then go online and find the best price.


I should have also mentioned that the video upscaling on the Onkyo looked a lot better than on the Pioneer but was a very minor issue for me personally.


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