# 'Fullrange' LCR



## atledreier (Mar 2, 2007)

Ok, I'm having a serious upgradeitisattack here.

Some background:
I currently use a set of Klipsch KL650THX for LCR speakers. They are high efficiency hornloaded 2x6,5" design. I like headroom, so I built three midbassmodules to cover the 40-200Hz range. The KL's take over from there.

This works, and I am very pleased with the soundquality I have now. But there is no substitute for headroom, so was looking at 'pro' solutions. Came over a local highly rated speaker design, the 'Tangen AV design InConcert Miles':









Basically, two Beyma 15P80Nd drivers tuned to around 35Hz, and a Beyma TPL-150H hornloaded ribbon HF driver.
The recommended crossover is 900-1400Hz.

So, I was thinking that my Eminence 3015LF drivers should be able to do 1kHz fairly comfortably, so I could sell my Klipsh LCRs, get another three Eminence drivers and the Horns, and build something similar. I have capable subwoofers, so I'd be comfortable with highpassing these at around 40Hz like I do now.

Anyone have experience with the Beyma drivers, compared to the Eminence? Am I better off ditching the Emmies and go Beyma all the way? The Beyma drivers should be able to go quite a bit higher than the Emmies, but with the ribbon horn there should be no need.

Price is comparable between the Emmies and Beyma. I can get the Beyma drivers locally, the Emmies are PE.

Eminence 3015LF : Parts Express

Beyma 15P80Nd: AVshop.no

The Beyma ribbon: Avshop.no


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

atledreier said:


> Basically, two Beyma 15P80Nd drivers tuned to around 35Hz, and a Beyma TPL-150H hornloaded ribbon HF driver.
> The recommended crossover is 900-1400Hz.


The TPL150 isn't a ribbon but an AMT just like a Heil.



atledreier said:


> So, I was thinking that my Eminence 3015LF drivers should be able to do 1kHz fairly comfortably, so I could sell my Klipsh LCRs, get another three Eminence drivers and the Horns, and build something similar. I have capable subwoofers, so I'd be comfortable with highpassing these at around 40Hz like I do now.


I'm not sure the 3015LF will do 1k, well. I definitely wouldn;t be crossing a dual 15" set up like that at 1k to an HF driver because the C-C distance between the lower driver and the HF driver is too great and it will comb. A 2.5 way would be an option, but I don't like them as a rule, and a proper 3 way would be my preference with something like an AE TD10M or B&C 8NDL51 as the mid.

I also recall seeing a test in one of the Euro mags, maybe K&T where the TPL distortion rose quickly below about 1k5 and that was suggested as a min xover.



atledreier said:


> Anyone have experience with the Beyma drivers, compared to the Eminence? Am I better off ditching the Emmies and go Beyma all the way? The Beyma drivers should be able to go quite a bit higher than the Emmies, but with the ribbon horn there should be no need.


Beymas are very well designed and made drivers, but as they are not designed to go high, don't assume they will.



atledreier said:


> Price is comparable between the Emmies and Beyma. I can get the Beyma drivers locally, the Emmies are PE.


You can also get the TPLs from USSpeaker.


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## atledreier (Mar 2, 2007)

The InConcert Miles as it stands has been built by many here in Norway, and has gotten rave reviews, so I assume that design works. The question was more if the Beyma could be exchanged for the Emmies, since I have half of them already.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

atledreier said:


> The InConcert Miles as it stands has been built by many here in Norway, and has gotten rave reviews, so I assume that design works.


'Reviews' mean nothing to me, especially when the basic engineering clashes with it. Also read too many of them and when I actually get to hear it, it sounds awful, so large grain of salt to be taken. Have you actually heard these? Are there and published measurements for them?


atledreier said:


> The question was more if the Beyma could be exchanged for the Emmies, since I have half of them already.


Not with any existing xover design for the Beymas and as I said, I doubt the LFs will do 1k well. Remember the xover, especially if passive is not a brick wall so driver needs to be well behaved above xover or it will be audible. 1k is a stretch for most 15's.


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## atledreier (Mar 2, 2007)

I will do active crossover, can do up to 48dB/oct in several alignments.

I have not heard them personally, but Several of my friends whom I know share my taste in sound have. I will get an audition soon.


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

atledreier said:


> The question was more if the Beyma could be exchanged for the Emmies.


Generally speaking no. A change in the drivers means a new Xover is needed.


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## atledreier (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm doing active crossover, so changing a crossover is a matter of turning a dial.


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

If the current speaker has a Passive Xover inside the box, that Xover must be replaced if you change drivers. I may be wrong, but the active Xover can not fix the problem.


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## atledreier (Mar 2, 2007)

I think you are misunderstanding me a bit.

I do not have these speakers already built. I came aross the plans for the InConcert Miles, and am considering building it. The plans are based on the Beyma 15" low/mid driver. Now, I already have three Eminence drivers, and I'm curious if they are comparabe qualitywise, and can be interchanged, or if I'm better off using the Beyma drivers from the plans and find another use for the Eminence drivers.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

atledreier said:


> The plans are based on the Beyma 15" low/mid driver. Now, I already have three Eminence drivers, and I'm curious if they are comparabe qualitywise, and can be interchanged, or if I'm better off using the Beyma drivers from the plans and find another use for the Eminence drivers.


Pragmatic answer: check the datasheets and see if the Eminence and the Beyma take the same size cut out in the baffle. If they do, or it can be easily modified for the change later, build it with the Eminence and try it out. Then you can change to the Beymas later if you are not happy with the performance. That is of course if you are determined to build this design either way.


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## 1Michael (Nov 2, 2006)

Unless the drivers have the same specifications, the Xover must be replaced unless sound quality is not a concern for you...


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## atledreier (Mar 2, 2007)

atledreier said:


> ...I assume that design works. The question was more if the Beyma could be exchanged for the Emmies, since I have half of them already.





A9X said:


> Remember the xover, especially if passive is not a brick wall so driver needs to be well behaved above xover or it will be audible. 1k is a stretch for most 15's.





atledreier said:


> I will do active crossover, can do up to 48dB/oct in several alignments.
> .





buggers said:


> Generally speaking no. A change in the drivers means a new Xover is needed.





atledreier said:


> I'm doing active crossover, so changing a crossover is a matter of turning a dial.





buggers said:


> If the current speaker has a Passive Xover inside the box, that Xover must be replaced if you change drivers. I may be wrong, but the active Xover can not fix the problem.





atledreier said:


> I do not have these speakers already built. I came aross the plans for the InConcert Miles, and am considering building it. The plans are based on the Beyma 15" low/mid driver. Now, I already have three Eminence drivers, and I'm curious if they are comparabe qualitywise, and can be interchanged, or if I'm better off using the Beyma drivers from the plans and find another use for the Eminence drivers.





buggers said:


> Unless the drivers have the same specifications, the Xover must be replaced unless sound quality is not a concern for you...


This thread doesn't make sense or is on repeat.... Do you guys even read the thread you are posting in? :rubeyes:

Ok, I'll see what I do after I audition the InConcert with the Beyma drivers.


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## Lucky7! (Jan 7, 2008)

As you quoted me in the above post, my comment on passive xover compatibility was _before_ you mentioned an active.

The difference in performance (whatever that might actually be) will likely require measurement as there will be few if any that have had those two exact drivers and compared them to be able to make the comparison you wish to get an answer to. My previous suggestion was intended so that it cost you nothing as you already own the Eminences, and leaves you the option of changing them later.

You are now at the point where you either have to build the original design as is, or use your drivers and measure and adjust accordingly to see whether the result is satisfactory for you.


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## atledreier (Mar 2, 2007)

Yes, I realize that. I do think I may go for the original design and either sell the emmies or just continue using them as midbass fillers around the room.

Gotta wait and see. My car threw a conrod bearing the other day so that kinda threw my plans out the window for now. Thanks for the help so far!


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## studiotech (Apr 27, 2009)

If going active, you should be OK to swap out to the Eminence. The Neo series are very good drivers. Google for "drivervault" to see some good measurements of the 12" version. Holds up very well even compared to the $$$ Lambda drivers which I feel are the best out there for high sensitivity drivers right now.

I have direct experience with the TPL150 without the horn. We are using it in a 2.5 way at our studio in the main monitors there. Since I am new, I cannot post links yet, but look up Phat Planet Studios to see some picts of the system. We found that running the TPL any lower than about 1.6KHz to cause it to sound strained at higher volumes. Maybe with the horn and steep slopes from your active Xover, you will be OK. Consider rolling off the lower of the 2 woofers earlier either with another active channel or an additional series inductor. That's what we ended up doing on the mains.

Good luck and have fun!

Greg - technician - Phat Planet Studios


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