# Surround speaker distances… help needed please….



## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

I know the recommended placement is 90-120 degrees, but what about the optimum distance between them?

I’ve looked and looked and all I could find was… ”They should be raised to a height of approximately six feet and should ideally have a minimum space of six feet between them.”

I have two options available to me and would like some opinions.

1. I can locate the left surround at only about 80 degrees and 15 ft. from the mlp and the right side at the recommended 90-120 at about 13 ft. from the mlp.

2. I can increase the size of the area rug and get both at the 90-120 degree mark but then they’d only be about 6.5 ft. each from the mlp.

Getting a rug that big would allow me to run the wires from the AVR under it and to their locations L and R of the mlp but at an added cost of about $1000.00. (Rugs are costly here in Thailand and I’d be combining three to get the size I need.)

Additionally, given these parameters, would monopole or bi-pole work the best given your recommendation on 1or 2?

It’s a large room, 22’ front to back and 35 ft. left to right.

I’ve got either Focal 926’s or KEF Q 900’s in mind using a Denon X4100W and Martin Logan Dynamo 1500 sub using a 5.1 setup.

Surrounds to be determined based on your opinions.

I know the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration will help in whatever location I select, but what would be your choice?


Thanks so much for any and all thoughts and opinions. :clap::clap:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Kind of hard to get a feel of things with a verbal description; a floor plan of some kind would be easier to visualize. That said:



Bahtman said:


> I know the recommended placement is 90-120 degrees, but what about the optimum distance between them?
> 
> I’ve looked and looked and all I could find was… ”They should be raised to a height of approximately six feet and should ideally have a minimum space of six feet between them.”


So, 3 ft. to the sides from the listening position? Umm, no. I’d suggest a 6 ft. minimum from the seating area, and more if possible.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Symmetry is less important for surrounds, but I'd still recommend it based on what I've learned here. There's a lot of good info in this post http://www.hometheatershack.com/for.../117369-relocate-surrounds-no-snickering.html if you'd like to sift through it. I considered near field surrounds until finding out that no matter how good the auto setup is on an AVR, it won't fully compensate for them. I wound up mounting them as far up and behind the LP as possible in my small room. Your room size is much better. And like Wayne commented, please,post a diagram or some pictures from different angles.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I'd say 12-20' between would work. Sounds like you're pretty well read on it. I prefer monopoles. Like the guys mentioned,pics would be helpful. Another thread may be more appt, but I think it should be pointed out that the Martin Logan sub will be mismatched for the room. If your ceiling height is 8', you're gonna be over 6000 cubic feet. A single sealed sub will struggle in that much airspace.


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

Ok, pics attached. First pic is option 2.

Just to clarify, tiled floors throughout but on the right side I can run wire under the floor molding to just about anywhere.
Left side would be a bit more difficult as there is a door between the TV and the counter (option #1.)

To locate them as in option #2, I'd need a LARGE area rug, and can get at least 12' between the two speakers.

Thanks for the response.


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

willis7469 said:


> I'd say 12-20' between would work. Sounds like you're pretty well read on it. I prefer monopoles. Like the guys mentioned,pics would be helpful. Another thread may be more appt, but I think it should be pointed out that the Martin Logan sub will be mismatched for the room. If your ceiling height is 8', you're gonna be over 6000 cubic feet. A single sealed sub will struggle in that much airspace.


Thanks for chiming in my friend. :clap:

You've posed another issue that would seem I'm not so well read on..........the sub.

In actuality the ceilings are much more higher than 8'. See attached elevation pic.

The Thai's seem to know diddly about these things and will sell whatever for the buck.

I've got a deposit down on the speakers, sub and AVR that I'll have to put on hold for now until I get a better grip on the situation.

Please hang with me here.

17' ceilings and 9.5' soffits.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

Bahtman said:


> Ok, pics attached. First pic is option 2.
> 
> To locate them as in option #2, I'd need a LARGE area rug, and can get at least 12' between the two speakers.
> 
> Thanks for the response.


A little off topic, but you probably want to be aware of this before you get too far:
Your main LP is the same 3.5m distance to either nearest wall. That can cause bass problems, because you may be seated in a null. Best to do a sub crawl early on, or even just a walk-around with bass-heavy music or low-pass filtered pink noise. You may need to move the couch left or right so it is not in the exact center of the room.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Thanks for the diagrams, helps a lot. I’d say move the speakers to the back wall behind the LP. I’d also recommend spreading the front L/R further apart for better imaging. They should be at least as far apart as the LP is from them.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

willis7469 said:


> I'd say 12-20' between would work. Sounds like you're pretty well read on it. I prefer monopoles. Like the guys mentioned,pics would be helpful. Another thread may be more appt, but I think it should be pointed out that the Martin Logan sub will be mismatched for the room. If your ceiling height is 8', you're gonna be over 6000 cubic feet. A single sealed sub will struggle in that much airspace.


Ok, where would this thread best be posted. I took a stab here, maybe wrong. Please advise.

Please see the new attached drwg. with more precise dimensions.

Sorry if they're to big.

Thanks


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

Lumen said:


> A little off topic, but you probably want to be aware of this before you get too far:
> Your main LP is the same 3.5m distance to either nearest wall. That can cause bass problems, because you may be seated in a null. Best to do a sub crawl early on, or even just a walk-around with bass-heavy music or low-pass filtered pink noise. You may need to move the couch left or right so it is not in the exact center of the room.[/QUOTE
> 
> I've read about nulls, but I'll not be able to measure them here. I've also read something about a 20% rule?


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

As far as I can see, you have 2 choices for surround speaker placement... 

A) best for sound quality but has detracted visual appeal. Set speakers in the proper locations near seating. Speakers will be out in the open on stands and the wiring can be covered with carpeting.

B) best for visual appeal but has detracted sound quality. Hang speakers under soffit behind seating. Speakers will be out of the way and the wiring can be run inside the soffit.


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

gdstupak said:


> As far as I can see, you have 2 choices for surround speaker placement...
> 
> A) best for sound quality but has detracted visual appeal. Set speakers in the proper locations near seating. Speakers will be out in the open on stands and the wiring can be covered with carpeting.
> 
> B) best for visual appeal but has detracted sound quality. Hang speakers under soffit behind seating. Speakers will be out of the way and the wiring can be run inside the soffit.


Thanks gdstupak, your not alone in your suggestion to hang them under/at the soffits.

Ironically I've already pre wired up the wall (in raceways) and around the soffits to the back wall as I'd originally intended to set up a 7.? system using rears. My concern is/was the 9-10' height they'd be.

If I did locate them there, what spread between them ? and should they be mounted purely horizontal or angled towards the mlp?

Mono-pole bi-pole?

I appreciate your input.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

_SPREAD..._
Left Surround & Right Surround speakers usually are recommended to be more to the sides of the listening position rather than directly behind. So if they are behind you I would recommend placing them as far apart as possible. Your Rs could be placed above the sliding glass door close to where the back wall angles toward the front. Your Ls could be placed equidistant in the other direction.
I would angle direct radiating speakers toward the LP.

_MONOPOLE..._
I've always used monopole speakers (direct radiating) because engineers don't usually use bipoles for mixing.
With bipoles, the speakers should be directly beside the LP, not behind the LP.


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

Got it. Thanks


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

Lumen said:


> A little off topic, but you probably want to be aware of this before you get too far:
> Your main LP is the same 3.5m distance to either nearest wall. That can cause bass problems, because you may be seated in a null. Best to do a sub crawl early on, or even just a walk-around with bass-heavy music or low-pass filtered pink noise. You may need to move the couch left or right so it is not in the exact center of the room.


I've relocated the MLP to closer to 1/3 (not 1/2 centered) for that very reason. Thanks


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## Bahtman (Feb 22, 2014)

gdstupak said:


> As far as I can see, you have 2 choices for surround speaker placement...
> 
> A) best for sound quality but has detracted visual appeal. Set speakers in the proper locations near seating. Speakers will be out in the open on stands and the wiring can be covered with carpeting.
> 
> B) best for visual appeal but has detracted sound quality. Hang speakers under soffit behind seating. Speakers will be out of the way and the wiring can be run inside the soffit.


The initial trial was less than 90 degrees, SR at 3.5 meters and SL at 4.5m at the counter. Wiring was already in place and I mocked up some stands. They were lost in this room and at that distance and room volume(10,300 ft.^)

Second mock up. Same stands but placed the speakers an equal distance of 7' (14' spread) from the MLP. It was a no brainer. Got some carpet seamed up in Bangkok to loose the wires and voilà. Instant gratification.

Now it's on to the subs. :hsd::hsd:
I find myself torn between a pair of SVS SB13's, as recommended by Ed as SVS placed on the front stage, replacing the existing cabinets, or a pair of Martin Logan Dynamo 1500's for $500 less. 

Thanks for all the support :clap::clap:


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