# Deep Sea Sound Mariana 24" Subwoofer



## vidiot33

Read an article in Audioholics recently surveying state of the art subwoofers and this one caught my eye. It has a 24" driver, is driven by a 4,000 watt amp, and is flat to 14 HZ. It costs $4000, which I recognize is out of reach for many of us, but after reading user comments on its performance, my dual 15" Rythmik's suddenly became expendable. Anyone have experience with these or cares to comment?

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

Yup, Deep Sea Sound went live a good 6 months ago. I've already been in discussions with the owner about getting a unit for review. Stay tuned...


----------



## vidiot33

theJman said:


> Yup, Deep Sea Sound went live a good 6 months ago. I've already been in discussions with the owner about getting a unit for review. Stay tuned...


 Absolutely I will stay tuned! This should prove very interesting. Any estimate on when this will happen?

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

Original projections were I was supposed to have an 18S and 24SC at the beginning of November, but nothing just yet. I'll reach out to David again and see if I can get an update.


----------



## vidiot33

theJman said:


> Original projections were I was supposed to have an 18S and 24SC at the beginning of November, but nothing just yet. I'll reach out to David again and see if I can get an update.


 Thanks for the prompt response, hopefully it will be soon. I would imagine there would be a lot of interest in a sub with these capabilities.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

Well, I guess the cat is out of the bag...

David and I have been PMing about the 24, and during that back and forth he gave me some information as to why I hadn't gotten the review unit. Based upon what he told me I thought it best to just keep it to myself for now, but he decided to go public on AVS so I'm reposting it here.

_I currently have no limiters on the HS24s but that will likely change soon. I currently have an FAQ on my website that tells people not to play synthetic signals for any length of time as it could blow the driver with the powerful amp on the Mariana subs. Well, guess what I did when playing the Chopper scene in Lone Survivor (ch 3/4)? There are essentially repeating 6, 12, and 18 Hz synthetic signals that go on for over a minute and I have blown some subs playing that WAY, WAY above reference. I was looking for a demanding test track and I found it. This primarily happened, not because of the 4,000 watts per se but because I used that extra power to DSP in a Linkwitz Tranform to allow the sub to play deeper (and louder down deep). I just want to reiterate that the driver thermaled because I put too much power into it below 15 Hz…as I’ll mention below it is simple physics. I’ve also been involved in putting 8,000w into a single HS24, which I definitely don’t recommend or condone, but the material was quite a bit different, not as demanding, not as deep, and definitely not as long in sustained duration. 

That is why Jim Wilson is not getting a 24" sub to test right now, I don't want to send a unit that might get some tweaks as it wouldn't be representative of the product a future customer might get._


----------



## robbo266317

It's refreshing to see a manufacturer upfront about a product and going that little bit extra to ensure the final product won't disappoint it's target audience. :TT


----------



## theJman

David Gage has been nothing but a class act since we first started talking about this review, which was back in May. I hope everything works out for him in the end.


----------



## vidiot33

theJman said:


> David Gage has been nothing but a class act since we first started talking about this review, which was back in May. I hope everything works out for him in the end.


This bodes very well for the launch of his new subs. Surprising though, that a product with these specs could be blown with a movie clip, it speaks to the enormous levels of power required to reproduce them.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## Talley

vidiot33 said:


> This bodes very well for the launch of his new subs. Surprising though, that a product with these specs could be blown with a movie clip, it speaks to the enormous levels of power required to reproduce them.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


It makes you wonder if the movie sound artists even realize they are making notes that low though... I mean does their equipment even do that and then what are the chances that movie theaters can actually playback at those extreme single digits?

but that would be some movie huh.... a movie that destroys the theaters equipment. I could only imagine such a movie and the cult of bass lovers that would flock to buy the first copies.


----------



## vidiot33

Talley said:


> It makes you wonder if the movie sound artists even realize they are making notes that low though... I mean does their equipment even do that and then what are the chances that movie theaters can actually playback at those extreme single digits? but that would be some movie huh.... a movie that destroys the theaters equipment. I could only imagine such a movie and the cult of bass lovers that would flock to buy the first copies.


Bring Ding, owner and founder of Rythmik would agree with you. When discussing the LFE from "How to Train Your Dragon" he calls it a "mistake." It makes sense, since, as you pointed out, movie theaters could never properly reproduce a 12 HZ tone properly without melting down, and the vast majority ( perhaps all) of those who buy the discs don't have systems that can even come close to doing it, so why encode a movie with such a subsonic tone?

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

The reason is a bit more complicated then just a movie - this was actually a 'perfect storm' of events that lead to the problem. The short of it is the movie has very low (down to 6Hz) and very long repetitive synthetic material added to the sound track. Couple that with the amplification from the Linkwitz Transform he programmed into the DSP and you end up with a burnt out voiced coil.

Here's an excerpt of something I posed on AVS about it...

_A Linkwitz Transform is basically a DSP curve that increases the amplification at a set level to counteract the normal roll-off of a sealed alignment. This is the reason David can get such a flat response into the teens with the HS24 in an enclosure that is not as large as the driver technically calls for (the parameters for the driver indicate the cabinet would need to be at least 50% larger to achieve optimal acoustics properties, and more than twice the size if he went bass reflex). As the driver starts to roll off on the bottom end the LT will begin lifting it at the same rate, thereby negating the roll off and flattening out the response curve. It becomes cumulative though because the driver keeps wanting to roll off more and more the lower you go, so the amp is pumping out increasing amounts of current to push it back up. The more current the amp pushes, the more heat the voice coil produces. 

Based upon David's description it sounds like the troublesome spot was in the mid-teens. I'm not certain how much current the LT had to provide in order to keep the response flat down there, but it seems the additional power exacerbated the normal thermal condition which would have been present anyway. Combined those two phenomenon appear to have overheated the voice coil. That's what he means when he says "thermaled"; in essence, the VC shorted._

I'll suggest to David that he joins HTS so he'll be able to post his own thoughts on this topic.


----------



## theJman

vidiot33 said:


> Bring Ding, owner and founder of Rythmik would agree with you. When discussing the LFE from "How to Train Your Dragon" he calls it a "mistake." It makes sense, since, as you pointed out, movie theaters could never properly reproduce a 12 HZ tone properly without melting down, and the vast majority ( perhaps all) of those who buy the discs don't have systems that can even come close to doing it, so why encode a movie with such a subsonic tone?


This is precisely why Brian includes his Rumble Filter switch, to limit the signals he considers mistakes. Note that the vast majority of soundtrack content into the teens (and lower) is actually intended and put there on purpose though, so most of it really isn't a mistake. True, some sound engineers accidentally leave dangerous artifacts behind, but for the most part those very deep sounds are indeed part of the soundtrack itself.


----------



## vidiot33

theJman said:


> The reason is a bit more complicated then just a movie - this was actually a 'perfect storm' of events that lead to the problem. The short of it is the movie has very low (down to 6Hz) and very long repetitive synthetic material added to the sound track. Couple that with the amplification from the Linkwitz Transform he programmed into the DSP and you end up with a burnt out voiced coil. Here's an excerpt of something I posed on AVS about it... A Linkwitz Transform is basically a DSP curve that increases the amplification at a set level to counteract the normal roll-off of a sealed alignment. This is the reason David can get such a flat response into the teens with the HS24 in an enclosure that is not as large as the driver technically calls for (the parameters for the driver indicate the cabinet would need to be at least 50% larger to achieve optimal acoustics properties, and more than twice the size if he went bass reflex). As the driver starts to roll off on the bottom end the LT will begin lifting it at the same rate, thereby negating the roll off and flattening out the response curve. It becomes cumulative though because the driver keeps wanting to roll off more and more the lower you go, so the amp is pumping out increasing amounts of current to push it back up. The more current the amp pushes, the more heat the voice coil produces. Based upon David's description it sounds like the troublesome spot was in the mid-teens. I'm not certain how much current the LT had to provide in order to keep the response flat down there, but it seems the additional power exacerbated the normal thermal condition which would have been present anyway. Combined those two phenomenon appear to have overheated the voice coil. That's what he means when he says "thermaled"; in essence, the VC shorted. I'll suggest to David that he joins HTS so he'll be able to post his own thoughts on this topic.


It would be great to have David on board, and I'm confident it would help him move some of his killer subs!


----------



## dgage

vidiot33 said:


> It would be great to have David on board, and I'm confident it would help him move some of his killer subs!


Thanks for the welcome! I've been a lurker on HomeTheaterShack but not consistent enough. As I told Jim, I'll plan to add HTS to my new ritual as a new year's resolution. 

I'll edit here and say I was working on a post and lost it so I'll post more later today.


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> Thanks for the welcome! I've been a lurker on HomeTheaterShack but not consistent enough. As I told Jim, I'll plan to add HTS to my new ritual as a new year's resolution.


We're delighted you're now an official part of the HTS family! Looking forward to your insights and expertise, especially regarding subwoofers. This is generally a very hot topic.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## Talley

I do agree... movie artists purposely track audio into the mid teens to low teens. IMHO anything below that is just flukes.

With that being said... it costs alot of money to reproduce those flukes at the sake they were never intended to be there in the first place. I still feel that if you have a system capable down to the 15-16hz range then you are more than adequate to reproduce movie notes.

To me... the key is being able to play 115db peaks at 25hz-50hz as this is more of the frequency that you can "Feel"


----------



## vidiot33

Talley said:


> I do agree... movie artists purposely track audio into the mid teens to low teens. IMHO anything below that is just flukes. With that being said... it costs alot of money to reproduce those flukes at the sake they were never intended to be there in the first place. I still feel that if you have a system capable down to the 15-16hz range then you are more than adequate to reproduce movie notes. To me... the key is being able to play 115db peaks at 25hz-50hz as this is more of the frequency that you can "Feel"


Yes, well said. Unless you watch a lot subterranean bass movies, it is not worth the expense required. Regarding your point about bass you can feel, Brian Ding, owner of Rhythmik (subwoofer manufacturer) has stated that the bulk of the bass you can feel in your chest is in the 50-70 HZ zone, when I heard that, I invested in 2 Rythmik Fmb8's to augment the midbass, and I'm now a happy camper!

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

I'm not so sure sub-15Hz content can be considered a fluke. From my experience, it's proven quite the opposite; I have plenty of movies with soundtracks that dip into single digits, and that number is increasing on a pretty consistent basis. While it may not be worth it for a lot of people to spend that kind of money to achieve those ultra-low frequencies, there is certainly more than a few movies containing extremely deep bass. Even most of the animated kids movies today are like that. AAMOF, some of my most brutal test blu-rays are from that catagory.


----------



## dgage

I figured out why I lost my previous post. Apparently the spam filter doesn't like my language but it will magically approve of my language once it has 5 posts to better understand my personality.


----------



## dgage

Talley said:


> I do agree... movie artists purposely track audio into the mid teens to low teens. IMHO anything below that is just flukes.
> 
> With that being said... it costs alot of money to reproduce those flukes at the sake they were never intended to be there in the first place. I still feel that if you have a system capable down to the 15-16hz range then you are more than adequate to reproduce movie notes.
> 
> To me... the key is being able to play 115db peaks at 25hz-50hz as this is more of the frequency that you can "Feel"


My second post that I lost when I tried going to Advanced Reply was focused on bass content so I'll respond to your post since it was the most recent and relevant. 

I disagree with you that anything below the mid teens is a fluke. In the past I'd agree with you but there has been way too much low end material in more recent movies. Now I'll agree there is a gray area where maybe the person meant to add some low end stuff but may not have the system to really understand what they created....sort of like Einstein and some parts of his theory of relativity that he couldn't prove. OK, that may not fit well as an anecdote but I feel it is a win when I'm able to work an Einstein reference into one of my posts. 

So here is a gem of a forum that may assuage your misgivings about deep bass being an accident. Data-Bass.com is run by Josh Ricci and on his website he posts about many of the subwoofer systems and raw drivers that he has tested. If you're not familiar with Josh Ricci, he seems to have positioned himself as the go to subwoofer tester due to his methods and impartiality. Notice I said tester and not necessarily reviewer, so that will still keep me in Jman's good graces (I kid). But besides the great testing he has done with subwoofers, the Data-bass forums have valuable information about bass systems but especially bass content. For most new movies, someone will use SpecLab to create a spectrograph showing the intensity of bass at various frequencies. They also have a list of the best bass movies, which focuses on amount, depth, and how often bass shows up. Since many members seem to have MiniDSP units, they've also created MiniDSP EQ profiles for various movies to handle filters, levels, etc and provide the best possible bass reproduction (http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/285-the-bass-eq-for-movies-thread/). Truly some fantastic information for home theather bass heads.

As an example, let's use the Lone Survivor Chopper scene between chapters 3 and 4 that helped me burn up two subwoofers.









This image is supposed to be here but I don't see it. http://img1.imagehousing.com/72/a80840bf826f4b0cf3cac593d4f123b6.png

The bad news is that scene destroyed two of my Mariana 24S subs. Well, actually I destroyed them by running them way above reference with demanding material, a heavy Linkwitz Transform, and no limiter.

Now the good news is that I built a sub that can strongly reproduce sub 10Hz content (with room gain) as shown in the following gif comparison (not sure which is which). The comparison was done by taking a loopback of the source signal compared to the microphone signal. And as an aside, my measurements in multiple rooms with a pair of Mariana 24S (I've only sold in pairs and quads so far) has shown the subs, in-room, to be flat to 7Hz before they start to roll off.









Here's another image since I don't see it. http://i.picasion.com/pic81/fdca7356fd39a693a3b8c795caddb7c7.gif


----------



## theJman

dgage said:


> I figured out why I lost my previous post. Apparently the spam filter doesn't like my language but it will magically approve of my language once it has 5 posts to better understand my personality.


Don't hold your breath... the filters on HTS will never understand your personality.


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> My second post that I lost when I tried going to Advanced Reply was focused on bass content so I'll respond to your post since it was the most recent and relevant.  I disagree with you that anything below the mid teens is a fluke. In the past I'd agree with you but there has been way too much low end material in more recent movies. Now I'll agree there is a gray area where maybe the person meant to add some low end stuff but may not have the system to really understand what they created....sort of like Einstein and some parts of his theory of relativity that he couldn't prove. OK, that may not fit well as an anecdote but I feel it is a win when I'm able to work an Einstein reference into one of my posts.  So here is a gem of a forum that may assuage your misgivings about deep bass being an accident. Data-Bass.com is run by Josh Ricci and on his website he posts about many of the subwoofer systems and raw drivers that he has tested. If you're not familiar with Josh Ricci, he seems to have positioned himself as the go to subwoofer tester due to his methods and impartiality. Notice I said tester and not necessarily reviewer, so that will still keep me in Jman's good graces (I kid). But besides the great testing he has done with subwoofers, the Data-bass forums have valuable information about bass systems but especially bass content. For most new movies, someone will use SpecLab to create a spectrograph showing the intensity of bass at very frequencies. They also have a list of the best bass movies, which focuses on amount, depth, and how often bass shows up. Since many members seem to have MiniDSP units, they've also created MiniDSP EQ profiles for various movies to handle filters, levels, etc and provide the best possible bass reproduction (http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/285-the-bass-eq-for-movies-thread/). Truly some fantastic information for home theather bass heads. As an example, let's use the Lone Survivor Chopper scene between chapters 3 and 4 that helped me burn up two subwoofers. This image is supposed to be here but I don't see it. http://img1.imagehousing.com/72/a80840bf826f4b0cf3cac593d4f123b6.png The bad news is that scene destroyed two of my Mariana 24S subs. Well, actually I destroyed them by running them way above reference with demanding material, a heavy Linkwitz Transform, and no limiter. Now the good news is that I built a sub that can strongly reproduce sub 10Hz content (with room gain) as shown in the following gif comparison (not sure which is which). The comparison was done by taking a loopback of the source signal compared to the microphone signal. And as an aside, my measurements in multiple rooms with a pair of Mariana 24S (I've only sold in pairs and quads so far) has shown the subs, in-room, to be flat to 7Hz before they start to roll off. Here's another image I don't see it. http://i.picasion.com/pic81/fdca7356fd39a693a3b8c795caddb7c7.gif


 A set of these is at the top of my home theater wish list. You have done the bass heads among us a great service, sir.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## vidiot33

I would add that there may be other subs out here that can approach what the 24's are capable of, but none at this price.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

dgage said:


> If you're not familiar with Josh Ricci, he seems to have positioned himself as the go to subwoofer tester due to his methods and impartiality. Notice I said tester and not necessarily reviewer, so that will still keep me in Jman's good graces (I kid).


No offense taken because you're absolutely right; Josh _is_ more of a tester, while I'm more of a reviewer. We each do some of both in our evaluations, but we most definitely approach things from a different perspective.



dgage said:


> But besides the great testing he has done with subwoofers, the Data-bass forums have valuable information about bass systems but especially bass content. For most new movies, someone will use SpecLab to create a spectrograph showing the intensity of bass at very frequencies. They also have a list of the best bass movies, which focuses on amount, depth, and how often bass shows up.


That's a good link to point out, one I've personally used many times in the past when searching for new test material. It highlights just how often movie soundtracks do go below 10Hz.


----------



## dgage

vidiot33 said:


> Yes, well said. Unless you watch a lot subterranean bass movies, it is not worth the expense required. Regarding your point about bass you can feel, Brian Ding, owner of Rhythmik (subwoofer manufacturer) has stated that the bulk of the bass you can feel in your chest is in the 50-70 HZ zone, when I heard that, I invested in 2 Rythmik Fmb8's to augment the midbass, and I'm now a happy camper!


Two different things that go oh so well together.  Bass that you can feel in your chest is definitely in the 50/60 to 100/150 Hz range. 

The deep bass you can feel more than you hear is below 20Hz.

A few stories on each of these.

* A friend of mine has been chasing that chest thumping midbass and he finally landed on JBL 4722n cinema speakers for his home theater with a pair of Mariana 24SRs handling the low end.

* I was in a shooting range with my son showing him how to shoot a .22 pistol. We're plinking away minding our business when all of a sudden my chest was ripped open, okay, it felt like it was ripped open as a huge concussion passed by. The jackhole next to me was firing this huge hand cannon that was ridiculous every time he shot it. Now that is true midbass and I haven't felt anything like it in a home or movie theater. Frankly, you'd have to have the midbass incredibly hot to replicate but I'm sure it is possible.

* The same friend that was following the midbass also had bass transducers on his couches but I told him he didn't need them if he had a proper subwoofer system. I tweaked his existing system (8 SI HT18s) with DSP and some additional power and he put the transducers up for sale the next week. He then traded in his 8 SI HT18s for a pair of my Mariana 24SR subs. 

* When I built my previous subwoofer system I had three LMS-5400 18" subs powered by a pair of SpeakerPower SP2-8000 amps (before I started DSS). When I first turned it on and showed my wife a demo scene, I asked her if it was too much bass and if I should put rubber isolators under the couch. She looked over at me with an evil stare and said don't you dare, this is phenomenal. Needless to say, she loves the subwoofers now and helps me with the business.


----------



## dgage

vidiot33 said:


> I would add that there may be other subs out here that can approach what the 24's are capable of, but none at this price.


Which subs would these be at any price point? The two off the top of my head that I can think of with similar output capabilities in a SINGLE sub unit would be the JTR S2 and the PSA Triax. I'm not trying to be contrarian, I'm genuinely interested and realize I haven't been exposed to everything on the market.


----------



## dgage

vidiot33 said:


> A set of these is at the top of my home theater wish list. You have done the bass heads among us a great service, sir.


Thank you! And sir won't cut it, my name is David.


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> Which subs would these be at any price point? The two off the top of my head that I can think of with similar output capabilities in a SINGLE sub unit would be the JTR S2 and the PSA Triax. I'm not trying to be contrarian, I'm genuinely interested and realize I haven't been exposed to everything on the market.


The operative word was "may", reading and hearing from owners what your subs can do, I wouldn't trade anything out there for your 24s's, even if they were the same price. To me value is not in what an item costs, but what it does compared to its peers, and I know of no better value in monster subs. I first learned of the 24s in an Audioholics article I read. It listed some other subs, but none of them were capable of what the 24s can do at anything near the price. That's how I would define value. I honestly believe that this product will be a big hit once greater awareness is created.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## dgage

vidiot33 said:


> The operative word was "may", reading and hearing from owners what your subs can do, I wouldn't trade anything out there for your 24s's, even if they were the same price. To me value is not in what an item costs, but what it does compared to its peers, and I know of no better value in monster subs. I first learned of the 24s in an Audioholics article I read. It listed some other subs, but none of them were capable of what the 24s can do at anything near the price. That's how I would define value. I honestly believe that this product will be a big hit once greater awareness is created.


Thanks. It is hard to convey intent through words, especially my way word words.  I was truly interested in other products that are out there, regardless of price, as I'm sure there are few. I'm definitely cognizant that now is a great time for the consumer with so many quality offerings at competitive price points. I had illusions of grandeur and growing quickly and getting review units out to Jim and others but life and reality dictated an alternate approach, which I have now embraced. I definitely will work towards creating greater brand awareness but as this thread has shown (among other challenges) that steady but solid growth trumps fast, on the edge growth, at least for my situation at the current time. The last year has been challenging in numerous ways but I've really enjoyed starting a new business. I appreciate your interest and thank you for your support! 

David


----------



## Talley

dgage said:


> My second post that I lost when I tried going to Advanced Reply was focused on bass content so I'll respond to your post since it was the most recent and relevant.
> 
> I disagree with you that anything below the mid teens is a fluke. In the past I'd agree with you but there has been way too much low end material in more recent movies. Now I'll agree there is a gray area where maybe the person meant to add some low end stuff but may not have the system to really understand what they created....sort of like Einstein and some parts of his theory of relativity that he couldn't prove. OK, that may not fit well as an anecdote but I feel it is a win when I'm able to work an Einstein reference into one of my posts.
> 
> So here is a gem of a forum that may assuage your misgivings about deep bass being an accident. Data-Bass.com is run by Josh Ricci and on his website he posts about many of the subwoofer systems and raw drivers that he has tested. If you're not familiar with Josh Ricci, he seems to have positioned himself as the go to subwoofer tester due to his methods and impartiality. Notice I said tester and not necessarily reviewer, so that will still keep me in Jman's good graces (I kid). But besides the great testing he has done with subwoofers, the Data-bass forums have valuable information about bass systems but especially bass content. For most new movies, someone will use SpecLab to create a spectrograph showing the intensity of bass at very frequencies. They also have a list of the best bass movies, which focuses on amount, depth, and how often bass shows up. Since many members seem to have MiniDSP units, they've also created MiniDSP EQ profiles for various movies to handle filters, levels, etc and provide the best possible bass reproduction (http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/285-the-bass-eq-for-movies-thread/). Truly some fantastic information for home theather bass heads.
> 
> As an example, let's use the Lone Survivor Chopper scene between chapters 3 and 4 that helped me burn up two subwoofers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This image is supposed to be here but I don't see it. http://img1.imagehousing.com/72/a80840bf826f4b0cf3cac593d4f123b6.png
> 
> The bad news is that scene destroyed two of my Mariana 24S subs. Well, actually I destroyed them by running them way above reference with demanding material, a heavy Linkwitz Transform, and no limiter.
> 
> Now the good news is that I built a sub that can strongly reproduce sub 10Hz content (with room gain) as shown in the following gif comparison (not sure which is which). The comparison was done by taking a loopback of the source signal compared to the microphone signal. And as an aside, my measurements in multiple rooms with a pair of Mariana 24S (I've only sold in pairs and quads so far) has shown the subs, in-room, to be flat to 7Hz before they start to roll off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here's another image I don't see it. http://i.picasion.com/pic81/fdca7356fd39a693a3b8c795caddb7c7.gif


I read all about it. I'm a member over there too. I do think a "couple" of movies were deliberate but spending the $5k+ on a subwoofer system just to be able to play the amount of movies that fits on your hands is a tad overkill. Too bad I like overkill lol. 

I thought about building my own SI24 w/ a 4kw amp but seeing what your offering may be the trick. 

Just so you are aware I am adding a second HSU subwoofer to my system fairly shortly and then my ultimate goal is adding a 24"er to the mix and having the 24 take care of the 5-20 and the dual 15s handling the 20-80. This is my "want" at least. Would have to use the mini-dsp to handle the integration.


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> vidiot33 said:
> 
> 
> 
> The operative word was "may", reading and hearing from owners what your subs can do, I wouldn't trade anything out there for your 24s's, even if they were the same price. To me value is not in what an item costs, but what it does compared to its peers, and I know of no better value in monster subs. I first learned of the 24s in an Audioholics article I read. It listed some other subs, but none of them were capable of what the 24s can do at anything near the price. That's how I would define value. I honestly believe that this product will be a big hit once greater awareness is created.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. It is hard to convey intent through words, especially my way word words.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was truly interested in other products that are out there, regardless of price, as I'm sure there are few. I'm definitely cognizant that now is a great time for the consumer with so many quality offerings at competitive price points. I had illusions of grandeur and growing quickly and getting review units out to Jim and others but life and reality dictated an alternate approach, which I have now embraced. I definitely will work towards creating greater brand awareness but as this thread has shown (among other challenges) that steady but solid growth trumps fast, on the edge growth, at least for my situation at the current time. The last year has been challenging in numerous ways but I've really enjoyed starting a new business. I appreciate your interest and thank you for your support!
> 
> David
Click to expand...

Slow, steady growth has advantages. I think being active in the forums is helpful and getting reviewers to review your subs should also help, but ID companies like Ascend and Rythmik have, I believe, largely grown through word of mouth from satisfied customers, and not from professional reviews. Personally, I'm more likely to buy when I hear lots of positive user reviews rather than professional reviews.
If you have a great product (and you do)treat customers well (as you have been)and hang in there, I believe you'll be very successful. I sense also that you're an honest, honorable man. There's an appetite for subs that can do what yours can- I can personally attest to that!


----------



## Blake90

theJman said:


> Yup, Deep Sea Sound went live a good 6 months ago. I've already been in discussions with the owner about getting a unit for review. Stay tuned...


I hope you also get to do the MFW-15 Turbo review.


----------



## morca

This is also a good one for low extention 
http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/12-the-low-frequency-content-thread-films-games-music-etc/?p=245


----------



## theJman

Blake90 said:


> I hope you also get to do the MFW-15 Turbo review.


I've been in discussions with Mark and things look good, so barring any complications I should be able to make this happen.


----------



## dgage

People seem excited about the prospect of me using the BHS-24 driver so I thought I'd make a fun Christmas announcement. 

I now have a BHS-24 driver in my possession but haven't had a chance to beat on it yet. I will test it once I get back from vacation.

I do plan to use the BHS-24 driver, primarily for its power handling, but I'm not sure what it will mean in terms of products. Will I have a regular HS-24 based Mariana 24 as well as a BHS-24 based Mariana 24 "Max" (moniker subject to change)? I'm not sure. If you have any thoughts, please share them.

I have reached out to existing Mariana 24 owners and given them the option for an upgrade to the BHS-24 driver if they would like it. Actually, even though it will cost more for the BHS-24 as well as modifying the existing Mariana 24SR enclosure, I will be doing the upgrade free of charge, let's call it a Christmas present. People took a chance on a young company and it is a small way for me to say thanks. 

Hope everyone enjoys the holidays and has a safe and happy New Year!

David


P.S. Enjoy the picture of the HS24 compared to the BHS24. Notice the BHS24 has a larger magnet in both height and girth. Which translates to weights of 90lb for the HS24 and 145lb for the BHS24.


----------



## vidiot33

Count me as one of those excited about this new driver. Please let us know how it does in the "torture tests " you plan to expose it to. The graciousness and generosity you're extending to your customers will doubtless result both in increased loyalty and new sales. I'm betting 2016 will be a breakout year for Deep Sea Sound!
For myself, can't wait until i get my mitts on one of these bad boys in the coming weeks.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## dgage

I would like to wish everyone a Happy New Year and I hope 2016 is your best year yet.

Looking back at 2015, it was one of the toughest years I've ever had. I'd have to go back 25 years to come up with another year as tough; I graduated high school early, attended my first college classes, moved from Alaska, joined the Army, and studied Russian for a year at the Defense Language Institute. While 2015 was tough, I feel better for having gone through it and know better years are ahead.

With the thought of making 2016 a better year, I decided to get it started strong by launching a brand new website. I will likely tweak it some, especially the home page sections on movies and music, but it is pretty solid overall. I'll also need to work on freight shipping charges for the continental US so I can turn on the online ordering. Check it out and let me know what you think. http://www.deepseasound.com

Thanks for the support and here's to a better 2016 for all of us. I definitely have big plans for 2016 with more subwoofer options, new drivers, and the long discussed speakers.


----------



## dgage

Let's keep the ball rolling with some more news. My driver designer just finished putting together the first prototypes for my new midrange/midbass drivers. So now I can start working on a home theater line of speakers with subwoofers built-in. Note that these are just prototypes and so aren't using fancy cones and depending on my testing, we may need to tweak the specs some. This is something we've been working on for several months so I'm glad we're making progress but my line of speakers is likely many months out.


----------



## theJman

Sorry 2015 was so rough for you Dave, but it sounds like it ended on a high note and that 2016 is already better. Looking forward to seeing what type of speakers you create. Be sure to keep us all posted.


----------



## dgage

Thanks Jim. Definitely excited about 2016 and looking forward to working with you some this year when I finally decide to ship you some subs to review.


----------



## vidiot33

My Mariana 24" with the new driver is on its way to me. I will post my impressions as soon as possible. Looking forward to having my world rocked!

<_CFXNotificationTokenRegistration: 0x160857a0>


----------



## B- one

vidiot33 said:


> My Mariana 24" with the new driver is on its way to me. I will post my impressions as soon as possible. Looking forward to having my world rocked! <_CFXNotificationTokenRegistration: 0x160857a0>


Should be interesting,to say the least!


----------



## vidiot33

Just took delivery of this beast: all 340 lbs! Anyone want to help me move it downstairs?

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

340 pounds?! Not sure my first car weighed that much... :flex:


----------



## dgage

May not actually be 340 lbs as I put in some extra just to make sure I didn't get an overweight additional shipping charge. I haven't yet purchased the pallet scale so I just weigh the individual pieces and guesstimate.

But the sub enclosure with Max driver and amp is definitely in the 265 pound range.


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> May not actually be 340 lbs as I put in some extra just to make sure I didn't get an overweight additional shipping charge. I haven't yet purchased the pallet scale so I just weight the individual pieces and guesstimate. But the sub enclosure with Max driver and amp is definitely in the 265 pound range.


340 was the weight on the shipping receipt, and looking at it, I'm not inclined to contest it. When it comes to subwooferage, nothing succeeds like excess!

<CALayer: 0x156a0430>


----------



## vidiot33

theJman said:


> 340 pounds?! Not sure my first car weighed that much... :flex:


Lol! She may be heavy, but she's beautiful!

<_CFXNotificationTokenRegistration: 0x156a0430>


----------



## dgage

vidiot33 said:


> Lol! She may be heavy, but she's beautiful!
> 
> <_CFXNotificationTokenRegistration: 0x156a0430>


Is there supposed to be a picture?


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> Is there supposed to be a picture?


Yes, shows up on my phone. It's not the sub itself but the pallet and packaging. Unfortunately, due to a snowstorm in Michigan, I couldn't get enough help to move it from the garage, hopefully tomorrow.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## dgage

Ok. The first picture of the pallet shows up. Wasn't sure if you had opened it up since you said it was beautiful. HAHA, and that's just the packaging. It gets better.  And even better when you get it hooked up.


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> Ok. The first picture of the pallet shows up. Wasn't sure if you had opened it up since you said it was beautiful. HAHA, and that's just the packaging. It gets better.  And even better when you get it hooked up.


It was an attempt at humor, since heavy and beautiful don't usually go together in the same sentence. I plan to experience her "inner beauty" very soon!

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## dgage

vidiot33 said:


> It was an attempt at humor, since heavy and beautiful don't usually go together in the same sentence. I plan to experience her "inner beauty" very soon!


I would have gotten the humor but I was confused by this (<_CFXNotificationTokenRegistration: 0x156a0430>) at the bottom of your post and was wondering if I was missing something.


----------



## vidiot33

Finally got the Beast moved downstairs. Fired it up and my theater screen was shaking. I'm going to need to move it to mid wall and try that

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## B- one

Where's the pic?


----------



## vidiot33

B- one said:


> Where's the pic?


 I posted a pic when it was first delivered, are you asking for another one from the theater room? I can post one, but I'm not sure how well you could see it, everything in the room is black, including the sub. Let me know if you still want one and I'll give it a "shot." (Pun intended)

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/customavatars/avatar92977_2.gif


----------



## theJman

vidiot33 said:


> I posted a pic when it was first delivered, are you asking for another one from the theater room? I can post one, but I'm not sure how well you could see it, everything in the room is black, including the sub. Let me know if you still want one and I'll give it a "shot." (Pun intended)
> 
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/customavatars/avatar92977_2.gif


That link is to my avatar. :scratch: Is that what everyone else is getting?


----------



## B- one

Yeah Jim I see your avatar as well. Vid,the only pic I see is in the packaging try for us will you!!


----------



## vidiot33

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## vidiot33

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## B- one

vidiot33 said:


> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


It needs a friend or three, I can see them stacked up in your room!


----------



## vidiot33

Not great pix, but I hope everyone can view them as I can. Every time I'd try to access my photos, my phone would freeze and I'd have to restart it. Anyway, I got tired of the test tones and hook ups, so I ran a clip from "Interstellar", the entire room vibrated and shook, but I wanted more, so I increased the volume to about 2 o'clock, and there it was! Visceral, chest pounding, deep and wide and full and enormously satisfying! A most successful first test for the big, bad guy!

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## vidiot33

B- one said:


> It needs a friend or three, I can see them stacked up in your room!


Something momentous would have to occur to acquire 3 more, but I'm hoping to be able to add a sibling within the next few months. Have to decide between adding Atmos or a second sub with the tax refund. What would you guys do?

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## B- one

vidiot33 said:


> Not great pix, but I hope everyone can view them as I can. Every time I'd try to access my photos, my phone would freeze and I'd have to restart it. Anyway, I got tired of the test tones and hook ups, so I ran a clip from "Interstellar", the entire room vibrated and shook, but I wanted more, so I increased the volume to about 2 o'clock, and there it was! Visceral, chest pounding, deep and wide and full and enormously satisfying! A most successful first test for the big, bad guy! Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


If you haven't seen Spectre give it a spin fun with a new sub!


----------



## willis7469

Vidiot33, I used to have the same issue using the hts app. Once I tried to select a 2nd picture, it crashed. Since there's no support for the app anymore, I've been using Tapatalk. It's really pretty smooth and supports swipe gestures. It's not perfect but it's pretty good. FYI...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## willis7469

Oh yeah, congrats!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vidiot33

B- one said:


> If you haven't seen Spectre give it a spin fun with a new sub!


Thanks for the tip, I'll definitely be spinning that one soon.

<CALayer: 0x16c43080>


----------



## vidiot33

willis7469 said:


> Vidiot33, I used to have the same issue using the hts app. Once I tried to select a 2nd picture, it crashed. Since there's no support for the app anymore, I've been using Tapatalk. It's really pretty smooth and supports swipe gestures. It's not perfect but it's pretty good. FYI... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks, I'll try it from Tapatalk next time.

<CALayer: 0x16c43080>


----------



## vidiot33

willis7469 said:


> Oh yeah, congrats!!! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks! This is definitely a home theater highlight for me.

<CALayer: 0x16c43080>


----------



## willis7469

vidiot33 said:


> Thanks! This is definitely a home theater highlight for me.
> 
> <CALayer: 0x16c43080>



I would think so! I'm window shopping right now. I'll see if big brother will gimme some back. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vidiot33

willis7469 said:


> I would think so! I'm window shopping right now. I'll see if big brother will gimme some back. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Hopefully one of these bad boys is in your future.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## willis7469

I will take those positive thoughts!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## vidiot33

Some further thoughts on the Mariana 24 Max:
This is an awesome low note transducer! It punches hard from 80 HZ down to about 10 HZ , and in my space it does so with no nulls, dips, voids or deficits of any kind! I know, I measured with test tones and an SOL meter. Amazing and very impressive, and I'm not easily impressed.
The second point I'd like to make is how nuanced and detailed it is. I was afraid it would be mostly muscular and hard hitting, but no mono note this: it can do all the layering, nuancing and detailing you could want, so music lovers who want to hear all the lowness their music has to offer, this is your sub. Bass is difficult to do correctly, and can be expensive. But if you want state of the art this is it. If 4 large is out of your budget, the 18's don't give up much to their big brother, and won't lighten your wallet as much. I'm tentatively planning on getting a pair of Mariana 18's to round out my system, so please stay tuned .

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## dgage

Thanks vidiot33! I'm so glad you're enjoying the sub and I look forward to you getting many, many years of faithful bass reproduction.


----------



## vidiot33

dgage said:


> Thanks vidiot33! I'm so glad you're enjoying the sub and I look forward to you getting many, many years of faithful bass reproduction.


You are most welcome! And thanks again for all your help with mini DSP and dialing it in. Can't wait to watch another bass heavy movie.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## willis7469

Whether or not you'd enjoy, I can't say, but teenage mutant ninja turtles has lots of great bass, and surprisingly many textures of it. 
Also, the dvd version of master and commander, chapter 4, under attack. Insane even after all this time. The BD version has a 30hz filter on it so all the gut busting bottom end is gone. 



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## theJman

Battle Los Angeles. Trust me.


----------



## willis7469

theJman said:


> Battle Los Angeles. Trust me.



I have seen this recommendation before. Must.....try......


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## dgage

Here are some off the top of my head. There are many more.

Coach over on AVS loves demoing John Wick. The scene where he breaks up the concrete floor is phenomenal with the subs. When they hit, they hit hard, and then they stop. Oh so enjoyable. The fight at the house is another good one as is the shootout in the club. When he first told me about John Wick, I thought that would be great demo material, unfortunately, too much violence and language for me to use it for public demo material.

Skyfall is a good one, the opening scene is good but the subway crash scene is really good. This was a pretty decent Bond movie in my opinion.

How to Train Your Dragon has some good bass, especially where the big dragon crashes into the ground. The second one wasn't nearly as good for bass.

Olympus Has Fallen has some good bass, the C130 gunship near the beginning has some especially deep bass. Definitely a rent if you see it available.

Lone Survivor has some deep bass but I already cautioned on this one. The helicopter scene was apparently recorded from a real life chopper (assumption) but the sound engineers didn't have the equipment to realize there was 6 Hz content that was 10dB louder than the rest of the movie track. Not many subs can reproduce this but the Mariana 24 can and will so don't go too crazy on the volume as that one is dangerous.

Kon-Tiki is an interesting movie based on a true story. Some great bass with the storm scenes.

Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol has a pretty good scene where the Kremlin explodes. Deep, strong bass but pretty short lived. Use it if you've got it but otherwise rent it when you think about it.

The Marvel movies are usually pretty good; Hulk, Iron Mans, Avengers, Xmen, etc.

And of course we have that oldie but goodie War of the Worlds with bass ahead of its time. Several good bass scenes in that one.


----------



## vidiot33

Keep the recommendations coming! This is why we buy these bass beasties!

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


----------



## theJman

Cloverfield, Tron: Legacy and Underworld: Awakening are a few others.


----------



## Electrodynamic

Great review of David's subwoofer weapons. Well put in every aspect. 

For movies with serious deep extension and impact:

The Incredible HULK (Edward Norton)
Jupiter Ascending
Pacific Rim
Gravity
Mad Max - Fury Road
Ant Man
War Of The Worlds (Tom Cruise)
John Wick


----------

