# HTS "Unofficial" Iron Man 3 Discussion Thread



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

[img]http://www.citynetevents.com/uploads/events/nguoi_sat_3_iron_man_3__2_.jpg[/img]
*WARNING: PLOT SPOILERS ABOUT THIS FILM -- WHICH OPENED IN U.S. THEATERS THIS PAST FRIDAY MORNING AT 12 AM -- DISCUSSED BELOW; PLEASE DON'T READ IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THIS YET...*

Okay -- let's get some things out of the way. Much like the rest of the world engrossed in the hoopla that is the modern-day comic-to-film adaptations -- which seem to be the most exciting genre being made today, to be honest -- I was absolutely stoked and aggressively waiting on pins and needles to see this third installment of the Paramount/Marvel/Disney franchise which brought the Tony Stark character and his powerful "Iron Man" suit and persona to the big screen...especially after viewing the incredibly awesome-looking trailers depicting Ben Kingsley as the unstoppable Mandarin adversary, which diehard fans had been waiting for when Jon Favreau was at the helm of these films. I saw this last night and I have to tell you all -- I don't know what we got, but it sure wasn't what the trailers promised...AT ALL. And, I don't seem to be in the minority because if you Google "IRON MAN 3 WAS TERRIBLE" or any variation of that rhetoric, you will be bombarded with fan site links and threads in forums that channel the anger of fans worldwide with regard to the mistake Shane Black made with this third entry...actually, to the MANY mistakes... 

To begin with, remember the trailers for _Iron Man 3_ -- specifically the last internationally released variant which had incredibly haunting yet tension inducing score in the background while we witnessed Stark's mountainside house being blown to bits from a presumed Mandarin attack by helicopters shooting missiles? And how Downey Jr. in the lead role grasped for his now mind-controlled suit as the house collapsed around him, throwing him and Pepper (Gwyneth Paltrow) down into the ocean? And the "promise" he makes to Ben Kingsley's Mandarin about "not being afraid of him" and how he's after "good old fashioned revenge"? And what about Kingsley himself, dishing out Bane-like terrorist threats against Stark and how his life is seriously going to be ended soon by his wrath? And what about Don Cheadle's "Iron Patriot" character -- changed from his previous "War Machine" designation -- flying all over the world to protect the president and others, suggesting "Rhodey" was going to get a much bigger role here? 

Throw it all out the window. What we have here is a not-so-clever "bait-and-switch" by Shane Black and Paramount/Marvel, who decided to make an almost "parody" of the _Iron Man_ films; what do I mean by that? Well, _Iron Man 3_ was billed by insiders as a "_Dark Knight Rises_" take on these films, with the dreaded Mandarin adversary finally coming to the screen to do battle with Stark as seen in the comic's run -- in fact, it was hinted at via online rumor sites that Mandarin was going to be as dangerous an adversary to Stark as Bane was to Batman in _Rises_, that his life was going to be that threatened by the mysterious terrorist that manipulated the 10 "magic rings" on his fingers. In short, _Iron Man 3_ was supposed to be a much, MUCH darker take on the characters and legacy of the material than the previous Favreau-helmed films. It just didn't happen. Let's begin with the definition of "parody" -- what I was trying to say with regard to that was this came off like a spoof of the characters and material, and I'm not joking. What if I told you that the Mandarin character in this film doesn't even exist and Kingsley is eventually discovered by a suit-less Stark as being a "decoy" used by the main adversary in the film, an ex-dork scientist type that once wanted Tony's ear during that conference at Burn hinted at in the first picture? During the first half of the film, we see Kingsley dressed as Mandarin, with the hood and the rings and all, making threats towards the U.S. president, and we assume he's behind the terrorism that's been rocking landmarks all over America...after the Chinese Theater in L.A. explodes during a sequence that involves Happy Hogan (Jon Favreau again playing him and staying on as one of the producers...and who looks like a bloated, swollen version of himself here) spying on some mysterious figures that have been hanging around Stark Industries and showing interest in Potts, the film goes into the proverbial toilet in just so many ways, I don't even know where to start...

In a ridiculously embarrassing sequence, Stark, going without his latest suit which was destroyed in the "Mandarin attack" on his house, somehow finds himself tracking what he thinks is the Mandarin to Miami, Florida, where Kingsley appears to be having a threesome with two hookers in a well-guarded mansion of some kind...when Kingsley appears to be frolicking amidst the bedroom the girls are in, saying something about not going in the bathroom for awhile because of what he just "did" in there, I knew something was "off" about this film. Alas, Stark confronts "Mandarin" with a gun and learns he's just a paid actor who "pretends" to be this "Mandarin" for the real criminal he's working for -- the guy experimenting with the "Extremis" technology and who once wanted Tony's backing at that conference. WHAT??!! I could not BELIEVE that the Mandarin was NOT a real character in this film, nor a real adversary to Stark, after what was promised in the trailers...

Perhaps what's worse is that all those cool threatening lines of dialogue you hear in the trailers mumbled by Kingsley, such as _"I'm going to give you a choice...do you want an empty life...or a meaningful death?"_ and _"Mr. Stark...today is the last day...of what is left of your life..."_, are NOT IN THE FILM ITSELF. Right. Absolutely ridiculous. We don't even see Kingsley manipulating the rings on his fingers like is hinted at in the trailers. The film plays like it's a parody -- like I said -- or a spoof of the _Iron Man_ films, and has an absolute strange pacing, feel and style...there are jokes and humor, but they come off as stupid; there's Rhodey's "Iron Patriot" character who ends up flying into Middle Eastern sweatshops run by veil-covered women and who he apologizes to as they leave the room, in his search for the Mandarin on his own by way of the president...a complete waste of time and nothing like what the trailers promised...there's even an elongated sequence involving Stark and some kid he runs into when he "crash lands" in his damaged suit somewhere in...oh, I don't know...Kentucky or something? He ends up talking with this kid for way too long, eating up way too much time of the film, while he works on fixing his suit and getting the Jarvis program back online (which was also damaged in the so-called "Mandarin attack"). The whole thing was ridiculous and unnecessary...

You wanna know who's really behind the terrorism displayed in _Iron Man 3?_ It's that geeky dude from Stark's past who now has delved into the Extremis experiments -- something explored in the comics for a good part of its run but which is completely and utterly lost in this film rendition -- in which he is able to control the minds of his "army" turning them into orange glowing "fire people" (I'm not kidding); eventually, he's able to kidnap Pepper and use the Extremis experiments on her, which leads to perhaps the only redeeming quality this film displayed in the final fight sequence between Tony, Rhodey, the Extremis brain (played by Guy Pearce) and Tony's so-called "Iron Legion," a team of self-operating, Jarvis-controlled Iron Man suits which come at Tony's mental commands via the nanotech technology we see him dipping into in the beginning of the film. When Tony thinks Pepper has been thrown to her death during the film's climatic end action set, he boils with rage and charges Pearce's character, and a head-to-head combat scene engages with Tony jumping in and out of different flying suits, trading punches with an Extremis-powered superbeing. But that's where the redeeming ends, as, alas, Pepper emerges from the rubble infected with the Extremis "serum" and ready to do battle with Pearce, pieces of Tony's nanotech-controlled suit flying off of him and onto her as she kicks the snot out of our bad guy...absolutely ridiculous, once again, and totally off the point of the main character...

Oh boy, was this film bad -- from the fact that Mandarin wasn't a real adversary in this at all to the odd pacing and humor and horrific one-liners to all that missing harassing dialogue spoken by Ben Kingsley in the trailers that NEVER appear in the final cut...I don't know what Shane Black and Marvel were thinking, but this was NOT an _Iron Man_ film; in retrospect, the second one with Mickey Rourke as "Whiplash," as convoluted and mixed up as that character was, ended up a far superior product. Oh, I forgot to mention...you know that little clip involving Tony going under the gas in an operating room for some "procedure" in the trailers (this was rumored to be his "procedure" to introduce the nanotech technology into his body, somehow, so he can control his suits mentally)? This was actually a procedure in which his arc reactor-based module in his chest is removed as he has apparently found a way to live without it, the surgeons able to remove the pieces of armory debris attempting to get to his heart all this time...WHAT? Alas, we have the conclusion of this dumb, highly disappointing film suggesting Tony's hanging up his Iron Man suit and that this may be the last entry for this individual franchise -- however, how does that explain his reappearance in _Avengers 2_? Are we to believe he will rejoin the team with his suit on, yet won't need the chestpiece in order to keep his heart beating? From what I have read online, Downey Jr. is in some kind of financial battle with Disney and Marvel, demanding a ton more money for the next _Avengers_ project, so we'll have to see where this leads; from what I understand, also, he feels Disney's involvement in these Marvel Studios projects since the takeover is a complete and utter joke -- and I can understand why, given this film and the _Avengers_' kind of "light-hearted, un-frightening" take on the team's adversaries. 

What needs to be done is for someone to step in and make an _Iron Man 4_ to salvage the mess this film was -- I really hope the other blockbuster of the summer as far as comic adaptations go, Warner Bros. and DC's next Superman reboot with _Man of Steel_, doesn't turn out like this. Though, the final international trailer looks real exciting with some fight sequences hinted at between Kal-El and General Zod, if the casting is a bit questionable (Russell Crowe as Jor-El? Kevin Costner as his Earth father? Michael Shannon as Zod? Really?). 

I'd like to hear from anyone who saw _Iron Man 3_ and what you made of it -- from all accounts, the film bombed as much as I described above, but let's hear from you, 'Shacksters...and let's discuss _Iron Man 3._

I never in my wildest imagination thought I would find myself saying this...but I don't think I'll be buying this on Blu-ray release day. How sad is that? Further, another big disappointment -- _A Good Day to Die Hard_ -- won't be finding its way to my collection shelf either; in my opinion, _Olympus Has Fallen_ was better than BOTH of these, combined...


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

I have to agree with you, it was a huge let down for me also. It also seemed like most of the people leaving the theater had the same reaction.

It felt like the movie was "Disneyfied", as if they spent all their efforts in writing one liners for Tony instead of making the plot interesting.

I can only hope The Avengers 2 doesn't get the same treatment.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Infrasonic said:


> I have to agree with you, it was a huge let down for me also. It also seemed like most of the people leaving the theater had the same reaction.
> 
> It felt like the movie was "Disneyfied", as if they spent all their efforts in writing one liners for Tony instead of making the plot interesting.
> 
> I can only hope The Avengers 2 doesn't get the same treatment.


I absolutely 100 percent agree with you, Infra, regarding the "Disneyfied" feeling...I just can't believe how bad this film bombed...:rolleyesno:


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

It will be interesting to see what the drop in box office numbers will be this weekend compared to last.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Infrasonic said:


> It will be interesting to see what the drop in box office numbers will be this weekend compared to last.


Yes -- indeed it shall!

You know what would be cool? If someone -- after some time has passed -- with a real passion for the material would come back in and do a "make up" for this film and did a REAL, dark, evil take on Mandarin...I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would be good for the role; I realize Chris Nolan is steeped deeper in the DC Comics universe and lore, and he's been busy with co-producing duties on Man of Steel, but HE would be the kind of filmmaker that could bring a real dark, menacing Mandarin to life as he did with Tom Hardy/Bane in Dark Knight Rises...

I don't think it will happen, but at least a fanboy can dream, right?

As I said, though...some time would have to pass so people can forget about this disaster and then perhaps make a film a few years from now -- after the events of Avengers 2 -- to "remind" audiences and fans about the Mandarin and how it COULD have been handled...


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Infra,

You're not actually planning on buying this on Blu or DVD when it comes out, are you? :blink: :sad::rubeyes:


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

Hmmm well I do want to "feel" it at home so I'll probably go with a rental first; if it has demo worthy scenes then I might actually buy it on sale.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Well, my friend, that's more love than _I'm_ gonna give it...


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

Yup, when it comes to movies with good sound I'm a sucker - I have seen so many bad movies because they _might_ have good sound.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Yeah, I know what you mean...and Iron Man 3 will no doubt come with a rousing Master Audio track when it's released in high def...I just don't even think it's worth the price of the rental to be honest. Especially after I consider what Shane Black and Disney did to us, the fans, by pulling the wool over our eyes making us think Ben Kingsley's Mandarin character was the main bad guy...

I'm still real peeved at that...:rant: :rant: :rolleyesno: :R


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Something else I failed to mention while I was expressing my...ummm..."sentiments" regarding the experience I took away from _Iron Man 3_ (well, a couple of things, actually)...

- The film opens in a rather ridiculous, offputting way, unlike Favreau's _Iron Man 2_ which was expertly handled with a Paramount/Marvel opening title sequence to the backdrop of Downey Jr.'s voiceover (albeit with some bits of changed dialogue lines) from the end of the first film during the press conference and which finally leads into the Moscow setting to explain the Ivan Vanko backstory...that didn't happen in the third one. Instead, what we get is a brief narration from Downey Jr. expressing his intention to delve into some "history" about "where it all began" for him and to also loosely set up the "Extremis" adversary. But, that's not the worst element -- after this brief narration, the opening Paramount and Marvel logos are accompanied by the ridiculous, campy and downright offputting song "Blue (Da Ba Dee)" by Eiffel 65...remember that song? What?! THIS is an opening title sequence for a comic book film adaptation? The song eventually sets up the very opening scene of the film itself, which depicts Downey Jr. at the Burn Conference, hinted at during his captivity scenes in the first film...where, of course, "Blue" is playing at a Stark party...but to introduce the song over the opening studio logos? Ridiculous, and, honestly, offputting.

- There's a stupid "dance" Downey Jr. does towards the beginning of the film, in which a Christmas vinyl LP (record, for those of you who are of the "iPod generation ) is playing on Stark's turntable in his lab while he experiments with the "nanotech" suit technology...and this scene is just utterly laughable and forgettable, adding nothing to the narrative or flow and making for one totally embarassing performance by Downey Jr. himself. The dumb "bumping and grinding" moves he does -- by himself with only the Jarvis computer program and his loyal robotic assistants in attendance as usual while he waits for his gorgeous girlfriend Pepper to come home -- reminded me very much of the totally unnecessary and offputting "dance" sequences Tobey Maguire indulges in during some scenes of _Spider-Man 3_...remember the jazz club scene with MJ and Gwen? :doh: :doh: :unbelievable: :rolleyesno: :coocoo:

Why ANY of these scenes weren't removed from either of these films I'll never have an answer to...but they were totally unnecessary and utterly ridiculous.

I'm sure I'll think of more elements of this highly disappointing summer blockbuster to pick apart as they come back to me; has anyone else seen this yet?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I caught it this past weekend - and, while it was mildly entertaining, I must say I was expecting more. How this now transitions Stark to the next Avengers movie I have no idea.....


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

ALMFamily said:


> I caught it this past weekend - and, while it was mildly entertaining, I must say I was expecting more. How this now transitions Stark to the next Avengers movie I have no idea.....


Glad you finally saw it, ALM...do you agree with what I was talking about regarding the ridiculous, misleading Mandarin element? For me personally, this problem went far beyond expecting more -- I thought it was a real cheap shot by Marvel/Disney and Shane Black to make this essential character of all the comic adaptations a hoax and "decoy;" given the seriousness of the trailers, this was VERY misleading and unforgiving in my opinion. As for connecting to the next Avengers project, we'll have to see, as I understand now that Downey is leading a strike of all the other actors involved to demand more money for the next one...:coocoo:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Osage_Winter said:


> Glad you finally saw it, ALM...do you agree with what I was talking about regarding the ridiculous, misleading Mandarin element? For me personally, this problem went far beyond expecting more -- I thought it was a real cheap shot by Marvel/Disney and Shane Black to make this essential character of all the comic adaptations a hoax and "decoy;" given the seriousness of the trailers, this was VERY misleading and unforgiving in my opinion. As for connecting to the next Avengers project, we'll have to see, as I understand now that Downey is leading a strike of all the other actors involved to demand more money for the next one...:coocoo:


I do - I thought the Mandarin character was going to be a great villain - and the look really supported that. Then, we get the guy as the villain who all I kept thinking about was him in that Adam Sandler movie where he got slobbered on by the dog.....:rolleyesno:


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

ALMFamily said:


> I do - I thought the Mandarin character was going to be a great villain - and the look really supported that. Then, we get the guy as the villain who all I kept thinking about was him in that Adam Sandler movie where he got slobbered on by the dog.....:rolleyesno:


Hahahahhahahahahahahahahahaha....yeah, you mean GUY PEARCE....I totally agree....:rofl:


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## Flavius (May 20, 2013)

I enjoyed it, but it didn't so much as not fall in line with my expectations as much as it simply smacked them in the face.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Flavius said:


> I enjoyed it.


Wow...

I for one cannot concur...:rolleyesno:


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## ericzim (Jun 24, 2012)

I liked some elements of the movie, granted the elements I liked were all action sequences. It will be interesting to see if a different "cut" of the movie will be made when it transitions to home media..


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

ericzim said:


> I liked some elements of the movie, granted the elements I liked were all action sequences. It will be interesting to see if a different "cut" of the movie will be made when it transitions to home media..


I must admit, Eric, that I was a bit smitten with the final "fight" sequence between Downey and Pearce atop the machinery on that dock, as when Tony thinks Pepper has been killed and injured he is infused with rage and just rushes Pearce's character until the two of them are trading horrific punches as Tony jumps from suit to suit via his Jarvis-assisted "Iron Legion"...that came off like a near-genuine classic hero vs. adversary sequence...yet it also contained too much "_X-Men"_-like cheesiness that turned me off in the same way; in retrospect, Favreau's fight sequences between Tony and Vanko in the sequel came off as much more powerfully executed and exciting. Outside of that end sequence -- which was utterly ruined in my opinion when Potts is under the "Extremis Influence" and kicks Pearce's rear end for Tony utilizing some of Stark's flying nanotech armor -- I didn't really find anything about this flick I liked and because Marvel/Disney and Shane Black were so comfortable with pulling the wool over the eyes of diehard fans who grew up on the comics and who were expecting a hardcore Mandarin exploitation, I won't be giving them any more of my money come Blu-ray release day...


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## ericzim (Jun 24, 2012)

Osage_Winter said:


> I must admit, Eric, that I was a bit smitten with the final "fight" sequence between Downey and Pearce atop the machinery on that dock, as when Tony thinks Pepper has been killed and injured he is infused with rage and just rushes Pearce's character until the two of them are trading horrific punches as Tony jumps from suit to suit via his Jarvis-assisted "Iron Legion"...that came off like a near-genuine classic hero vs. adversary sequence...yet it also contained too much "_X-Men"_-like cheesiness that turned me off in the same way; in retrospect, Favreau's fight sequences between Tony and Vanko in the sequel came off as much more powerfully executed and exciting. Outside of that end sequence -- which was utterly ruined in my opinion when Potts is under the "Extremis Influence" and kicks Pearce's rear end for Tony utilizing some of Stark's flying nanotech armor -- I didn't really find anything about this flick I liked and because Marvel/Disney and Shane Black were so comfortable with pulling the wool over the eyes of diehard fans who grew up on the comics and who were expecting a hardcore Mandarin exploitation, I won't be giving them any more of my money come Blu-ray release day...


Not a must have on my list either.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

I have not seen this you guys are scaring me I will still buy it and hope for the best I'm sure I have worse I still need to trade in at BB.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

It was OK, not a great movie. Better character than previously but still a caricature rather than a really serious one. Definitely not a must have, but wait until the rentals are cheap.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Pretty sad if you ask me, as nearly every single sequel to follow an original -- at least with the comic film adaptations -- are buys...:sarcastic: :R


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

B- one said:


> I have not seen this you guys are scaring me I will still buy it and hope for the best I'm sure I have worse I still need to trade in at BB.


B one, if you haven't seen this please don't read all the comments in my original post -- it gives WAY too much of the plot away; once you see it, please join in the conversation with regard to how (*GULP*) awful most people thought this was...:rant: :unbelievable:


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

lcaillo said:


> It was OK, not a great movie. Better character than previously but still a caricature rather than a really serious one. Definitely not a must have, but wait until the rentals are cheap.


If you're referring to Downey's "character" being better, I totally disagree; I thought what we saw here was a total mockery and joke made out of the Stark role, what with his ridiculous dancing and odd gestures as compared to the first two in the franchise...I actually thought the exploitation and development of this role was better in _Avengers_, and even that I thought wasn't the same Stark as in Favreau's universe...

Just my two cents...:huh:


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Luckily I'm cheap and rarely go to the theater. Might even wait for used bluray. I would usually blind buy at release of such a title guess only time will tell, at least I will have lowered expectations.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Did you enjoy the first two?


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Yes very much.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Osage_Winter said:


> Did you enjoy the first two?


How about you?


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Indeed; while I thought the first one seemed a bit long-winded on development (I mean it seemed like forever until we got to the "adversary" who was supposed to be "War Monger" or Jeff Bridges' "Obie"; though I suppose it was, after all, a first origin film) I like the way Favreau connected the end of the first one with the beginning of the second. That said, there were a LOT of liberties Favreau has taken with these adaptations with regard to the comic's origins, characters and plots...let's start with the fact that Tony met Rhodey in Vietnam, not in the Saudi Arabian desert. Now, I understand Favreau had to modernize this, but it just didn't feel authentic to me; further, dabbling in the "Ten Rings" backstory and making them the terrorists that take Stark hostage didn't really follow any comic backstory that I'm aware of. Likewise, in the sequel, Favreau decided to make a "mish mash" Frankenstein's monster out of the "Whiplash" adversary in Mickey Rourke's Ivan Vanko -- from what I can recall, Whiplash wasn't Russian and I don't even believe his original name was "Ivan Vanko" nor did he have any connections (or his father Anton) with the Stark corporation...


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