# 2ch Amp that is better then a receiver but inexpensive?



## mademperor (Jan 5, 2010)

I currently have a Onkyo Receiver that does 100w x6 (well, you know how that goes...)

I would eventually like to upgrade to a Emotiva XP3 for $700 3 channel, but i would still need an inexpensive 2ch/3ch for surrounds.

I don't want to drop $700 atm, is there an inexpensive 2ch/3ch that would be superior to my Onkyo receiver that I can use for my mains to take some of the load of my Receiver? (temporarily until i get the XPA3)

I know Emotiva makes a 2ch (upa2) for $300, but I was curious if there was anything else that was either cheaper or better.


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## cburbs (Mar 27, 2007)

What are you aiming for?

which Receiver is this?

Why not start off upgrading your front channels then go for the rears down the road.

What is your % ratio on music and ht?

If your more music than HT than maybe a 2 channel.

If your more HT than music maybe aim for the 3 channel instead.


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## mademperor (Jan 5, 2010)

I should have put more info 

Receiver: Onkyo TX-DS797
Mains: Paradigm Studio Reference 100s V.2 & matching Center


I want to take the load off my Receiver so I have less risk of clipping and damaging my speakers.
I don't want to start with the front & center yet since I don't want to spend $600 right now.

50% music 50% Home theater 

Room 11x14x7.5 (But I might be moving in less then a year)

(The Emovita $300 2chan is out of stock anyways atm)


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## cburbs (Mar 27, 2007)

OK - well then maybe look on the used market. If you want to stick with Emotiva look here for used stuff for sale - http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium

Otherwise look for some of the following used at www.audiogon.com

Parasound 
Outlaw
Acurus
Adcom

Though the question becomes if you want to stick to the same stuff and know you want say the Emotiva XPA3 then I would just wait and save up your money and buy something from them so you are not mixing amps.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

mademperor said:


> I should have put more info
> 
> Receiver: Onkyo TX-DS797
> Mains: Paradigm Studio Reference 100s V.2 & matching Center
> ...


I doubt you could do any harm to those speakers with that receiver. If your volume control is at -20db or lower you have no need to add an amp. If you do want to add an amp. I suggest a Yamaha P2500S. It has no fan noise, gobs of power and is very well built.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

To perceive much difference in sound quality or quantity you will need a quality amplifier with at least double the power you now have with your receiver. This is going to be hard to do at your desired budget unless you buy used or a pro amp. Emotiva is one of the only quality cost-effective solutions and I'm thinking you won't hear much of a difference with the UPA2, although it would indeed take some load off your receiver. If you were looking at spending $300 for a short term solution, why not just save a little more and get the XPA-3 for $600?

Other short term possibilities considering the UPA-2 is out of stock could be a pair of Dayton APA 150s bridged for 150 wpc at $278. Others have been satisfied with pro-audio amps by Crown, Tapco, QSC and others. A friend has a Tapco Juice J-2500 which he likes. The Tapco J-800 has 205 wpc @ 8 Ohms and can be found for $230.


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## Guest (Jan 30, 2010)

I thought I'd throw in the Behringer A500 for $199 and that Dayton APA150 is on sale for $139 right now.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If your looking for a quality amp that is better than the Behringer the Samson servo 300 is a fantastic amp and can be found all over the place for well under $300 its got a far superior toroidal power supply and can run 150watts into two channels at 4ohms or the Servo 600 for about $40 more that can do 300 watts into two channels at 4ohms. The frequency response is 10-40,000Hz. Both amps are built really well and are very clean and trouble free as I have two of them and think they are fantastic for the money.


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## chadnliz (Feb 12, 2010)

Parasound HCA800 is cheap and great, it was my first amp I added to a Onkyo pre out and it was a great step up in sound. Carver, Adcom, Rotel, NAD are also amps you can maybe get a used deal on and all will shine better than most any recievers internal amp.


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

The advice to go to audiogon and buy a used Parasound is by far your best bet. Parasound makes amps that are fantastic, yet very reasonable on the used market. The "you'll need twice the rated power of your Onkyo to hear the difference" is pure nonsense. One listen to a good quality amp with the same power rating as a receiver will tell you very quickly (especially in controlling the bass of your speakers) that statement simply is not so. You have very good speakers...give them proper feeding! Good luck...
Cheers.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

OK, perhaps a clarification such as generally, given similar electronics, you need to at least double the actual power output to hear a significant difference in output from the system. Something like that is what I should have written.


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## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

Jackfish, I am truly sorry if you took my statement personally; it certainly was NOT meant in that manner. I do agree with your clarified statement, but I do think we probably both agree that the difference heard with a respectable power amp over a receiver's internal amps can be striking in terms of detail, dynamics, coherence and others...the proof as always is in the listening...Good listening!
Cheers.


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

conchyjoe7 said:


> ...the difference heard with a respectable power amp over a receiver's internal amps can be striking in terms of detail, dynamics, coherence and others...


YUP! Thanks.


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## smiledon (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi,
You are a prime candidate for the wonderful world of diy hifi!
I am listening to this at the moment, and am very happy! 4 channels for $50!...mail included!
Search ebay with "4*100 watt at 4ohm, TK2050 D-class Audio Amplifier Board". [this board will not let me give you the direct link.]

Sure Electronics from China will ship it quite quickly. Mount it in a cake tin or a cigar box and power it with your laptop power supply. [any dc from 9v to 30v. Most laptops work on 19 to 20vdc.].When the bug bites, go to diyaudio*com forum and follow the crowd who are modding these boards.

I have bought 1, have a second on the way and plan to tri-amp my main system [AAD Q40] with one amp per side, using 6 out of the 8 channels. With 1 27vdc switched mode power supply per side, this will give me a 6 channel dual monoblock stereo system for $180! [+ cigar boxes of course!]

for the record I copy my cds onto a hard drive with 'exact audio copy' and play my hifi using a netbook with usb connection to a diy DAC [$50] powered by a 12v battery. The netbook on my lap is my music library and remote volume control.
Hope this gives you and others something to think about.
Cheers
Phil


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

4*100 watt at 4ohm, TK2050 D-class Audio Amplifier Board

"Audiophile Quality Sound"

Says who?


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## smiledon (Feb 2, 2009)

Gee Jackfish, $50 too much for you? You won't find out by just sitting there and curling your upper lip.

If you want a spend a bit more, look into various designs by Bel Canto, Nuforce, Red wine Audio, Pass Labs etc.

Here is a guy writing on the diyAudio forum

Old 5th January 2010, 10:32 AM #924
dr_vega is offline dr_vega 
diyAudio Member

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Southern Oregon

I took one of my Sure 2*100w amps to a local audiophile meeting Sunday. It is modded with West Cap 2uF paper-in-oil input caps bypassed with .47uF Dayton poly/foil caps. It also has air-core inductors with paper and tin foil shields. Two Panasonic FM 620uF tank caps bolster the power supply. The board is driven by a 36v 3 amp Kodak smps brick from a laser printer.

Three of the people at the meeting have high end tube amps. One of them "hates solid state amps, especially digital amps." The other person is tri-amped with Adcom solid state amps.

After several hours of listening to all kinds of music, all of them agreed that the modified Sure was better than the high end amps they had at home. Even the guy who couldn't stand digital amps conceded that the Sure was as smooth as, and more detailed than, his Rogue Audio tube amp.

This was not a scientific double-blind test. It wasn't even an A/B comparison. It was just some guys who love high quality sound being knocked out by a little amp that cost less than $100 including the power supply and mods.

-dr_vega
Report Post Reply With Quote


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## smiledon (Feb 2, 2009)

Hi Jackfish,
6moons, the excellent audio review website, review very favourably an American amp from Winsome Labs that uses exactly the same chips as the Sure board. Search and find.

My project is about 1/2 way through. I have replaced the ferrite core inductors some home made air coil inductors and replaced the input capacitors with bigger mpp types. 

The 2nd amp and the power supplies are still in the mail but I already think this will become the best amp I have. So what is in my cupboard?
Vincent SV236
Tim Paravicini EAR 549
Push pull 2A3 
single ended 2A3 monoblocks
Phil


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