# Another new person to home theater, advice please.



## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi All,

I, like many who are here, am new to the home theater realm of sound. Even though I've read through some of the other posts, it seems like everyone's needs are different. I'd like some recommendations on speaker systems.

Background info: I just moved to a basement condo like thing with my fiance to start a new job. There are a row of townhouse like homes with individual lower units. I'm not sure if it's particular to Maryland, but there certainly wasn't anything like this in Michigan. Anyways, it's a 2 bedroom unit. It has a large room (12' x 20') that's divided into a living room (12x10) and a section that's designated a dining room (12x10). Currently I'm using a 7 year old Onkyo GXW-5.1. It was in a small bedroom to begin with and moved to a small living room before (rectangular 12x10) but that place had a wall whereas the new place opens up the sound into the dining room area. I want to replace the Onkyo unit with something more capable. My fiance and I are big gamers. I've a PS3, Xbox 360, Wii, etc. I'm looking to buy a flat panel TV as funds become more free. I'd want to route everything through the receiver and have the receiver upconvert the analog (Wii component and Xbox 360 component) to 1080P, while the PS3 can pass through with the HDMI cable.

I'm looking for a receiver and 5.1 set of speakers. I like the notion of having floor (tower?) speakers for the front left/right. I'm looking to keep the system for 10-15 years without upgrading. For now I'm sure any system I get would be an improvement and would work well for the small-ish room and moderate sound levels due to me having neighbors and all. I am hoping the system would be flexible enough to be moved into a large living room (shot in the dark 20x20?) once I move into a house.

Needs - 50% gaming, 40% movies/tv shows, 10% music (the music percentage might be higher with a better sound system, who knows?)

Budget - $1000-$1200 max for the whole thing (receiver, 2 floor speakers, center, 2 satellites, 1 subwoofer, tax, shipping). I'd be very happy if it can be kept closer to $1000.

Room Size - 12x10 (for the seating area), 12x20 for the room - hoping to have the sound system be moved to a larger room without the need for upgrades.

Receiver Research - (so far)
I was going to get the Onkyo HT-S9100 for around $800. But since then, I've read more and have decided to try and piece together a system for $1000. Receiver wise, I'd want something that's 7.1 or 7.2 for speaker additions if I ever wanted it. I was looking at the Onkyo TX-SR607 and TX-SR707 - but have reservations about the heat issue. The Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K and Denon AVR1610 also looks like contenders. The Audyssey MultEQ feature looks nice as well on some of the models. However, at $500-ish for some of the latter ones listed, I'm afraid that if 1/2 of my budget goes towards a receiver, then only 1/2 is left for speakers. Should I settle for a lower price/brand and not get everything I'm thinking of? Multi-room feature isn't important to me.

Speaker research -
This is where I get very confused. I'm trying to match up the impedance of ohms from speakers to receiver. And be on the lookout for sensitivity (87dB or better, right?). It's hard for me to find out RMS wattage because I don't want to underpower or overpower the speakers, right? Some sets that have been bookmarked by me... Jamo E660 5 speaker package + Velodyne Impact 10, EMP Tek HTP-351T, (similarly) Destination Audio F300T 5.1, EMP Impression 5.1 Tower, TheSpeakerCompany TST3-HT. I'm kind of waiting for them to go on holiday sale for ~$700 and then add in a ~$300-400 receiver.


Subwoofer -
Should I keep with what they give with the budget lines? I don't need teeth rattling and right now I can't fully appreciate it in my living situation - but I would like for it to be able to shake walls at some point in the future.


Wires -
I fully plan to get 14-16 gauge wire and banana (plugs? clips?) but that isn't included in this budget. I know some people like 12 gauge, but I think might be too thick to navigate along the carpet.


Whew! I think that's it. I kind of know what I want. Yet, I really don't know what to get or even if it's possible with my budget. Oh, for one last challenge - I'd like to get new equipment instead of used items. I don't mind used other things, but electronics have to be new with me. Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated. If I'm not thinking in the right direction or if you have other ideas/speakers/system combination I might have missed, please feel free to post and let me know!

Many thanks,
-H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I will spend more time on this tomorrow, but for a system you plan to keep 10 years plus, you either need to raise your budget or spend your max budget on the best components you can while only having perhaps a receiver and a pair of floorstanders. And add components as money becomes available. Perhaps used you could come closer, but for a long term system it will be a almost insurmountable task at that budget. 

There is a 5 channel package that sells for 300 Dollars which includes everything but the subwoofer. Even includes floorstanders and large center and surrounds. I will try to remember the name of the company.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hmm...

I should probably add that I'm not an audiophile. I figured if I lived with a small Onkyo 5.1 system for 7 years, it wouldn't be a stretch to think that I could easily live with something better for 10 years. The most I ever spent for a complete sound system was $200 for my Onkyo and before that $100 on the Logitech 2.1 Z2200 for the PC.

I just want to get the best I can get for around $1000. :thumb: Better than the average or even best HTiB.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
It was just after reading you wanted room shaking bass in the future and wanted a long term system.
Quality subwoofers can be found for around 300 Dollars. And Accessories4less offers awesome deals on Onkyo TX-SR707's that are refurbished. This would be an excellent receiver. Adds THX Certification, Audyssey MultEQ, and much more. The 707 can be found for under 500 Dollars.

Tomorrow, I will try to put something together with your planned budget. I will say that spending just a bit more will really yield you much higher quality components. And with a system you plan to use for 10 years, this extra investment really is prudent.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi JJ,

I appreciate your efforts in planning something around my budget. When you said "spending just a bit more will really yield you much higher quality components", how much more is a bit more?

Well, I look forward to seeing what your ideas are tomorrow.

Thanks again,
H.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For speakers that will stay within your budget look at Yambeka. I would not go with anything less than the Onkyo 707 as it has pre outs and gives you the ability to add an external amplifier down the road to power your speakers so in essence you then use the 707 as a processor only. 
SVS makes some of the best subs around and are a real bargain. They also make really good speakers but that may blow your budget.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Here is a link for the TX-SR706:http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Thx-100w-X-7ch-Theater-Receiver-Black/1.html
The TX-SR707 is available there for 70 Dollars more, but when working on a tight budget, it might be better to put the 70 Dollars towards speakers.

Either the 706 or 707 will be an excellent place to start your system. 
Here is a link for the Fluance 5 Speaker system:http://www.fluance.com/fluan5speaks.html
It costs 300 Dollars and includes 5 large speakers. Still cannot believe you can get 5 large speakers for that price. Reviews have been fairly complementary.

And here is a link for an excellent SVS Subwoofer: http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

Grand total is 1,197 before shipping. You would have an excellent THX Certified Receiver, fantastic subwoofer, and decent speakers. The good thing about the speakers is they are so cheap you can upgrade in the future to better speakers without losing much money. With the subwoofer, the system will rock.
Cheers,
JJ


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

Emuc,

If you can spare the time, you should consider visiting a local AV store to listen to speakers. Take some of your favorite music so you're familiar with what it sounds like. I suspect you'll be surprised at how much better it can sound with quality speakers.

In general, you should probably plan to spend about 2/3 of your budget on speakers and the rest on electronics.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
While I am in complete agreement about the importance of speakers, with the budget at hand, a package system seems the only possible way to go.

Speakers and room interactions are the things which have the biggest impact on the sound of your system. This is why I recommended a excellent SVS Subwoofer to augment the budget Fluance package.

Selden, please if you have any ideas of how to meet his proposal, submit them. With a budget of 1200 Dollars max incorporating speakers, AVR, and subwoofer, it is not easy to find quality components to meet this budget. The more ideas, the better.

I am still in shock over the Fluance package. I cannot believe you can get 5 large speakers for 300 Dollars. Furthermore, every review I have read has been pretty good.
Cheers,
JJ


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Jungle Jack said:


> I am still in shock over the Fluance package. I cannot believe you can get 5 large speakers for 300 Dollars. Furthermore, every review I have read has been pretty good.


I got a pair of  this speakers , they sounded good to me but I replaced them because of their frequency response (130Hz-20KHz), I wanted to crossover all speakers @80Hz....


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Good to hear from a Member that they sounded satisfactory. The prices seem unreal. The package suggested here, the highest crossover is 80Hz which is for the surrounds/center. The Fronts are specced at 49 Hz. This should work well with the SVS Subwoofer being x'overed at 80Hz.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,

Thanks for all of the suggestions thus far. I've never heard of SVS, Yambeka, or Fluance - so there's quite a bit more reading up to do. Unfortunately, the SVS speakers and Yambeka speakers are a little out of my price range. But thanks for the recommendation. Please keep them coming.:T

On the Fluance speaker set suggested, the center speaker sensitivity is 86dB. From what I understand it takes more power to drive something that's 86dB vs. something that's 91dB. Does is equate to loudness or only how hard the amp/receiver has to work? Since the center is at 86dB and the floor speakers are at 89dB, will the center have trouble with being loud enough to deliver clear dialog in movies? Or do I have it all wrong?onder:

Should I be concerned about the heat issue with Onkyo's? What's the difference between the sr706 and sr707 models? I'm looking at the spec sheet side by side and they look identical. If the heat is an issue, does anyone have thoughts on the Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K and Denon AVR1910?

I can't get my brain around spending as much ($500 incl. shipping) for the SVS subwoofer as a receiver:gulp:. Is there a different (less expensive) alternative or is it just worth it to save up and get this?

Again, many thanks.:wave: I'm just trying to take it all in and make an informed decision.
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

selden said:


> Emuc,
> 
> If you can spare the time, you should consider visiting a local AV store to listen to speakers. Take some of your favorite music so you're familiar with what it sounds like. I suspect you'll be surprised at how much better it can sound with quality speakers.
> 
> In general, you should probably plan to spend about 2/3 of your budget on speakers and the rest on electronics.


Hi selden,

Thanks for the suggestion. The closest place by me is about 30min away and from their website it doesn't seem as if they carry the Fluance that I'm interested in. That said, it couldn't hurt to check them out, right? Should I bring some DVD's or something if I don't really have that much audio to bring with me? I generally use speakers for 50% gaming, 40% movies/tv shows, 10% music - so I don't have that much music to bring with me to try out.

Thanks again for the suggestion,
H


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## selden (Nov 15, 2009)

H,

By all means, listen to your favorite DVD. Hopefully you can avoid getting distracted by the video  (One of my problems is that I have trouble that way, which makes it hard for me to use one to evaluate speakers.) Music (whether CD or high-bit-rate MP3: many modern receivers include USB/iPod connectivity) is usually a better test, because it's easier to determine if individual instruments sound right. The sound tracks on DVDs usually include lots of processing, since the audio is meant to support the movie, not to stand alone.

You shouldn't hesitate to give them a call ahead of time, and let them know your approximate budget. They might be able to set up a system in advance for you to listen to. Of course, they'll try to persuade you to spend more than you want! 

Whatever you decide, though, be sure not to get Bose. Their money is spent on marketing, not on audio design.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

H,
The receiver was originally 900 Dollars. The subwoofer is well worth it and will provide you years of room shaking deep bass. The Onkyo is much more powerful than the Pioneer 1019 and should have no problems with a 86db efficient speaker.

In order to sell quality speakers cheaply, many companies have gone ID (Internet Direct). This is a big reason why you might not be familiar with some of these brands.

All the same at 1200 Dollars, the system I proposed would give you years of quality sound. The only part I am not personally familiar with are the Fluance Spekaers. But given the price and reviews, should meet your needs and budget.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

do not concern yourself with the heat issues in the Onkyo receivers, Heat is normal with any receiver that offers as much as they do. Bang for buck Onkyo is the best out there. Its always good practice to place a receiver in a spot where it can breath freely nothing on top of it and nothing producing heat below it like a PVR or sat receiver.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi,

I think I'll save up a little more and keep an eye out for holiday sales so that I can get the Onkyo SR707, Fluance SXHTB+, and possibly the SVS PB10-NSD. Total including shipping and all should come out to $1470, maybe less!

That said, while looking at reviews on the PS10-NSD, it was also compared to the Outlaw LFM-1 and eD A3-300 and even PS12-NSD. Are there any opinions on those?

Thanks again for the advice.
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Agh... I just missed out on getting the Onkyo sr707 for $544 shipped. I had it in my cart this morning, had to run out the door. Just got home and saw that the price went back up to $620. Oh well.

Anyways, I'll be sure to have the receiver well ventilated.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think I'll save up a little more and keep an eye out for holiday sales so that I can get the Onkyo SR707, Fluance SXHTB+, and possibly the SVS PB10-NSD. Total including shipping and all should come out to $1470, maybe less!
> 
> ...


Hello,
Those all are excellent, high value subwoofers. The Outlaw was designed by Hsu research, who also makes great subs. Any of the above will outperform subwoofers sold for the same price at Best Buy by a huge margin. Pick whichever one is on sale and you will be blown away.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The PS12-NSD is a fairly big step up from the 10NSD if you can swing it you would not be disappointed but I know your budget is tight so the PB10 NSD is also a very capable sub.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello Again,

I was alerted to a sale on HSU subwoofers. The VTF1 and VTF2 MK3 have prices that sandwich themselves in between the PB10-nsd and pb12-nsd. Here are the prices including shipping to me:

VTF1 $450
PB10-nsd $499.15
VTF2 Mk3 $578
PB12-nsd $626.22

The PB12 is out of my budget and is there for reference. Should I consider saving a bit with the VTF1, keeping with the PB10 or saving a little more for the VTF2?

Thanks,
H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
While both good choices, the PB10 goes down to 20Hz whereas the VTF-1 is rated to 25 Hz. I would say it is a nobrainer for 50 Dollars to get the SVS. Also, the SVS has a more powerful amplifier. By 125 watts!
Cheers,
AD


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,

So, I'm still waiting for a decent deal (and a few paychecks) until I spring for a system. 

I've a few random questions while I'm still shopping:

1) If I were to find that dialog through a center speaker were not very clear, would turning up the volume on the center speaker only (assuming you can do that) be the only way to hear dialog?

2) The tower speakers usually have some sort of bass due to the way they are designed. With a subwoofer, would the receiver know that there was one connected? If so, then does it give all of the bass duties to the sub? Or does the tower still do bass duty?

3) Is there a sticky thread that tells you how to properly break in speakers and subs? What if I can't play music at a moderate volume 24/7 or even while I'm away at work? Could I make due with a lower volume for a longer break in period?

Even if I don't have my speakers yet, it can't hurt to know what to do next, right?

Thanks again,
H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> So, I'm still waiting for a decent deal (and a few paychecks) until I spring for a system.
> 
> ...


Hello,
1) You can raise the level of the Center Channel Speaker on the fly with most receivers. I have never owned a receiver where that has not been the case. Mind you that at loud levels, if your amplification is lacking, raising the level could lead to distortion.

2) With modern receivers, there is a speaker setup page on the setup menu. On this page, it asks you which speakers you have (Front Left, Center, Front Right, Surround Left, Surround Right, Surround Back left, Surround back Right, and Subwoofer) and the size of the speaker. (Large or Small) 
Most receivers actually do this for you now via Audyssey, MCACC (Pioneer) et al. Through test tones via a microphone it determines the distance, level and size of the speakers. With floorstanders, you can run them full range, but most cross all speakers over at 80 Hz when using a subwoofer. If you do not have a subwoofer, this is not the case.

3) I am not sure if there is a sticky, but just take it easy for the first 50-100 hours. From there, spend time learning the sound and abilities of your system. Pay special attention while playing at higher volumes for compression and distortion. If the sound is starting to sound distorted, immediately turn down the volume.
Cheers,
JJ


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> So, I'm still waiting for a decent deal (and a few paychecks) until I spring for a system.
> 
> ...


3.I can tell you speaker break in is a myth that goes on the list with fancy cables, amp audibility and other crazy things. Save yourself money and trouble. Get the best speakers/sub you can get and add a receiver that does the job.

1. I don't think your space is large enough to warrant a center speaker. But if you insist you can run it hot to get better hearing for the volume. 

2. Frequency response in a loudspeaker is the product of many variables. On your budget I'd suggest a bookshelf approach due to the budget. Building a great tower is expensive even as a hobbyist. 

For the record the best budget speakers I've heard and evaluated are the Behringer 2030p's They are less than 150 for the price and are probably more than adequate for your needs. There is a lot of junk in the lower price range so be careful of it. These are widely used in studios and by budget minded theater folks with great satisfaction. 

The step up from those is the Ascend Acoustics 170 bookshelf. 

I base my evaluation off measurements and both of these do extremely well. They aren't perfect, but this is a budget setup.

2 pairs of the behringers with an HK AVR 247(adequate) direct from harman kardon would run you about 500 bucks. 

That would leave the rest to getting a nice sub. I suggest the SVS or Epik in that price range.

If you decide you want to go with my suggested setup just pm me and I'll help you work the best price.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
There is always going to be debate between those who believe in speaker break in, sonic attributes in amplification, etc...
I usually try to avoid these debates and rarely make declarations about many of these third rail topics.
That being said, the vast majority of Speaker Manufacturers do believe in break in. As do the majority of Professional Reviewers. With things like the rubber surrounds of speaker drivers, I do think that there is a certain amount of break in. However, I respect the opinions of those who believe otherwise.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

lsiberian said:


> 3.I can tell you speaker break in is a myth that goes on the list with fancy cables, amp audibility and other crazy things. Save yourself money and trouble. Get the best speakers/sub you can get and add a receiver that does the job.


This statement is not factual, most speaker manufacturers clearly state in there manuals that come with the speakers that break in is going to change the sound over the first few weeks of use.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

LOL, :rofl2: we keep doing this Jack. We think alike.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Tony, indeed my friend. Means a great deal to know we think alike on most every audio debate.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,

I'm about to purchase a sr707 that's on sale. To test the unit, could I attach my old speakers from the Onkyo gxw-5.1 system? They're small cube speakers and I can't even find the manual online to look at specs. I don't want to damage them but I also don't want the sr707 sitting in a box for several months until I get the rest of the speakers.

Thanks,
H


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You will be fine running the old speakers for now, just dont push the volume to hard through them.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi tonyvdb,

I finally found some specs on the satellite speakers on cnet.
"Speakers Included 5 x Satellite speaker - 10 Watt - 150 - 20000 Hz - 6 Ohm - Wired , 1 x Active subwoofer - 25 Watt - 20 - 150 Hz - 3 Ohm - Wired "

You said not to push the volume too hard through them. To clarify, does this mean only turn the volume up to "normal" levels? Meaning how loud they normally sound with it's original receiver/subwoofer? Or even less than that?

Thanks,
H


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Emuc64 said:


> Hi tonyvdb,
> 
> 
> You said not to push the volume too hard through them. To clarify, does this mean only turn the volume up to "normal" levels? Meaning how loud they normally sound with it's original receiver/subwoofer?


Yes that is correct.

You may be able to find some really good deals on speakers tomorrow during the Black Friday sales so maybe thats a good place to start.


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## TonyG (Nov 28, 2009)

I know what's it's like to try and hit a tight budget, so here are a couple of items that could be a match to your sub-woofer needs. Of the three sub manufacturers that have been mentioned most in this thread, Outlaw Audio seems to have the best Black Friday/Cyber Monday deals. They have the LFM-1 Compact for $339 shipped or the LFM-1 Plus for $467 shipped.

A better sub is always valuable, but you expressed some doubt about spending 40% of your budget on a sub. The Compact would work in your room for non-reference level bass, but the Plus would give you more headroom. 

Good Luck!

:T


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello Again,

Well, I finally got my first piece of equipment. A new Onkyo SR707.

I'm liking the Outlaw LFM-1 Plus sub that TonyG suggested. So I want to get that.

Now, the question is what to do about the speakers. If I wanted to do bookshelf sized speakers instead of floor speakers (room size limitation), what should I get in the less than $350 shipped category? I'm looking for 5.0 set.

The only ones that seem interesting so far are the Energy Classic 5 pack from Energy's site. $199 shipped. Would those go well with the Onkyo and LFM-1+?

Anyone know of other good deals or suggestions?

Many Thanks (It IS Thanksgiving in the US),
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

RE: Energy Classic 5 pack... I can't find any from their authorized internet dealers. :huh:

I did find them at Newegg, I believe a Non-Authorized internet dealer.

Other suggestions would certainly be welcome. Thanks!


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## TonyG (Nov 28, 2009)

I try not to push too hard when people are making decisions, but I think in your price range that the idea of going with 5 sats is a good one. I also think sats tend to work better in terms of space management in non-dedicated theater rooms. The Take 5s are a great price performer. They need to be crossed over at 100-120hz, so some people think they "localize" the bass when the sub is crossed over that high. There are many happy Take 5 customers, and that price is great.

Another option would be the SVS SBS-01 5.0. On B-Stock, it would be $360 or so delivered (depending on where you live). I suspect this is probably a little less efficient, but you have a reasonably strong amp so that won't be a big issue. The SVS have larger woofers and should be crossed over at 80hz and might be a better match with the Outlaw which goes low and deep. The Energys are smaller, lighter, and therefore less demanding to mount on the wall.

There's always trade offs, and there are a number of reviews on the internet on both systems. You'll need to allow some extra funds for mounting brackets/stands with a sat setup versus floorstanding fronts. Another challenge on the journey to home theater bliss!

Have fun.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Emuc64, Your budget for speakers is going to give you issues with sound quality in the end that you wont be happy with. You would be better off using some old used speakers for the sorround channels and spand you entire budget on just some decent front speakers and a sub for starters. You can get away with phantoming the centre channel to your left and right speakers.
Dont simpy buy speakers for all 5 channels on a very limited budget as all that will get you is unsatifactory results and you will end up replacing them sooner rather than later.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I could not agree more with Tony. Another huge advantage to purchasing high quality speakers is they will actually hold a good bit of value should you decide to upgrade. Super cheap speakers or HTIB's have next to no resale value.

To be honest the current system I have has been a constant evolution of my first system I purchased as an Undergrad. I started with a pair of Paradigm Monitor 7's. At the time, I had neither a Center Channel or Surrounds, but I had a great pair of speakers.

A year later, I purchased the matching Center Channel and Surrounds. After graduation, I sold all of my Monitor Series Paradigm for a nice sum and put that money towards a pair of Paradigm Reference Studio 100 V.2's. Again, I did not have the funds to buy all of the matching speakers so I held off until I could.
At the time I matched the Studio's, I also started a 2 channel system based around a pair of Martin Logan Aerius i's.

Three years ago, I sold off my Paradigm Reference System for thousands and put the proceeds towards a pair of Martin Logan Vantages. Again, I could not initially afford the 3000 Dollar matching Center Channel (wanted a V8 sports sedan), but I waited and got spectacularly lucky when Sound Advice went out of business and picked up the Stage for 70% off and a pair of Vista's for 70% off. And a few months ago, I finally got a Martin Logan Subwoofer to complete my 5.1 package.

My point in all of this is to back up what Tony is saying and what I always advocate, that is to buy the best you can afford and not give in to buying 5 subpar speakers at once for instant gratification when you could afford one quality pair of speakers instead.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Even to add to this using my setup. I've been using the same speakers since 1992 and still love the sound from them. I payed big bucks (for me anyhow at age 22) for quality speakers and still have no plans to replace them. They would cost at least $2500 to replace just the 7 speakers today with something comparable.
My receiver, display, dvd player, and other components have all been upgraded several times. while still using the same speakers because they were good quality.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello Tonyvdb & JJ,

As Tony has said "Stay away form Fluance they use junky drivers and will not last." in a post last year regarding the Fluance speakers and JJ hasn't had first hand experience with them. So I'm hesitant, even if they're including 2 extra satellites (7.0 system) for $371 shipped as a holiday special. My needs are "50% gaming, 40% movies/tv shows, 10% music". What do you two use your systems for?

You're both saying get the best I can with what I got, even if it's only 2 speakers. Well, I've spent $944 thus far for an Onkyo SR707 and Outlaw LFM-1 Plus. They were great deals. However, my original budget is $1200. What can I buy for $260 (shipped) that will last me years and years? I'll even consider audiogon or some similar site.

I found out that I'm not an upgrader type of person, so whatever I buy would likely stay with me for a while. Therefore, resell value doesn't really matter to me as much as bang-for-the-buck. As you can see, I've little buck at this point so I'm trying to stretch it as best as possible.

Thanks,
H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hello Tonyvdb & JJ,
> 
> As Tony has said "Stay away form Fluance they use junky drivers and will not last." in a post last year regarding the Fluance speakers and JJ hasn't had first hand experience with them. So I'm hesitant, even if they're including 2 extra satellites (7.0 system) for $371 shipped as a holiday special. My needs are "50% gaming, 40% movies/tv shows, 10% music". What do you two use your systems for?
> 
> ...


Hello,
At this point, I would not recommend the Fluance. As I have repeatedly stated, I am utterly astonished at how cheap they are. I never even knew there were full sized speakers available for this little. You honestly have some really good gear so far and I think you are really going to be happy when all is said and done. I will start looking and get back to you. Can the "260 shipped" be for only 2 speakers? Also, is 260 the absolute most you can spend?

I use my system for all categories but karaoke. Blu Ray, PS3 Gaming, much TV, XBOX360, DVD, etc...
A quality system should be adept in all categories. At least that is the goal.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
If you need to stay at that budget and really want 5.1 right now, the Energy Take 5: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882269004 at 179.99. Energy makes quality speakers. I will also look for preowned, but this is my 5 channel choice if you have to stay at that budget.

I see you already brought it up. Looks like the Take 5 has been discontinued. They are rated down to 115 Hz which means your sub is going to be responsible for a great deal. Good thing you bough such a nice one. Should you decide this. What is your zip? Will look locally as well.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,

JJ, Thanks for continuing to provide input and search out for stuff. My zip is 21114. Running the numbers again... my budget is at max $280. Unexpected things came up over the weekend.

80% of me really wants 5.1 sound to take advantage of how games/movies are made. So the Energy Take 5 speakers are on my list. Also, What do you all think of the Klipsch Quintet III? Amazon, through Vanns, has them for $199 (free shipping). The frequency response on those are a bit higher (120hz sat/125hz cent) than the Energy (115hz sat/110hz cent). The power is (50W sat/75W cent) and (100W sat & cent) respectively. Sensitivity is higher on the Klipsch (91db/94db) than the Energy (89db).

20% of me has been convinced by you guys to consider 2 speakers. So if there's something totally awesome out there, please let me know and I'll seriously consider it.

Many thanks,
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi Again,

I have found another 5 speaker deal that fits in my budget. Energy C-50 for $45 each. I was thinking about getting 5 of them and using one as a center since the C-C50 was not available. They seem to be better than the Klipsch Quintet III or Energy Take 5 while still within my budget. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That looks like a really good deal. I like that their frequency response is rated down to 65 Hz. This means they should blend nicely with your subwoofer being crossed over at 80 Hz.

Energy makes quality speakers and the C-50 really should fit the bill and budget
Cheers,
JJ


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## TonyG (Nov 28, 2009)

There are a couple of the C-C50s on Ebay available via buy-it-now. Those are cherry finish, so I don't know if they match the C-50s you found. With a 4.5" woofer, I'd probably cross these over at 90hz or so. A friend of mine had the Take 5s a few years ago, and they were quite good for the price, but these probably are a better match for your system. You're doing great with your budget. Figure it out, pull the trigger, and enjoy your system. There's always something better, but the system you have is a good basis for years of enjoyment.

Edit, I forgot to include that the shipping on the Ebay item is likely $25-30.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,

Many thanks to (in order of appearance) Jungle Jack, tonyvdb, selden, salvasol, lsiberian, and TonyG. Thanks to all of your input, advice, and time spent on replying, I've managed to put in the order for my new system. It's no $50,000 home theater system, but I think you've all helped me get something much better than a HTiB.

Onkyo SR707 - $477
Outlaw LFM-1 Plus - $467
5x Energy C-50 - $222.50
===========================================
Total Out the Door (incl. shipping, taxes, etc.) - $1166.50

Yes, kept it under my original $1200 budget!! Whew! :sweat:

Now, I'm excited to get everything in. I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along. But I wanted to give a quick thanks to everyone who chimed in.:clap:

Sincerely,
H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Compared to a HTIB, this is a 50K system. You were able to put together a system with a retail of over 2 thousand Dollars before taxes for almost half that. The great thing is all of these components, at retail, represent excellent value so you did doubly good. I really think you are going to be blown away. That Outlaw Subwoofer pumps out the jams.
Cheers,
JJ


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

great job with your choices! You wont be disapionted. Its nice to see someone who takes advice and runs with it :T


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

Emuc64 said:


> I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along. But I wanted to give a quick thanks to everyone who chimed in.:clap:


Glad to be of help....More questions???...no problem; We're here to learn and to help each other :T


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

VERY good choices for components! I think you did a fantastic job as the others have pointed out on getting an outstanding system and making it work within your budget!!


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

salvasol said:


> Glad to be of help....More questions???...no problem; We're here to learn and to help each other :T


Hi,

Thanks for encouraging questions. So, here goes: A member previously mentioned running a speaker "hot" so that I can hear dialog from a center speaker. Seeing the efficiencies in the speakers I bought "Sensitivity (anechoic) 85dB Sensitivity (2 speakers in a typical room) 88dB", does this mean... if I need to dial up the volume, that it'll reduce the life of the speaker because it needs to run hotter than a more efficient speaker?

Too many words let me try this again. Will using a higher wattage, due to my speakers inefficiency, reduce it's life?

Thanks,
H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
You are only raising the level on the amplifier channel. Life of the speaker should not be affected unless playing at super high level which causes the receiver's amplifier to go into clipping.

When you raise the level on a speaker channel, it can change what the maximum volume level is. It should be quite uncommon to playback above Reference Level (0 Db) on a THX Processor/Receiver Instead of +15, it might be +10. Not citing a specific model of receiver just throwing a number out there.

Raising the Center Channel level can increase dialogue volume in quiet, atmospheric movies. Or ones where the Center Channel Surround mix is recorded too soft or quiet. Should have no adverse effects.
It is common where the Center Channel level is raised and in fact, you can temporarily raise the level and it not change the calibrated settings. Often, power cycling will result in the Center Channel level being set at calibrated level.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> ...in fact, you can temporarily raise the level and it not change the calibrated settings.


Hello,

Pardon my inexperience in this. Umm... How do I temporarily change the level? If I go to the center speaker selection and raise the db, wouldn't that take as the new calibrated settings? If my receiver had profiles I can set, that's how it would know to revert back to calibrated settings, right? Otherwise, how?

I've not hooked up my receiver yet and well, I can only get so far with the manual just visualizing until my brain hurts. I'm better at playing around with settings WHILE looking at the manual at the same time.

Okay, thanks for any clarification.
H.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
At least on my Onkyo, press Channel Select and the level + button to raise the level after choosing Center Channel (each speaker including subwoofer shows up)
Cheers,
JJ


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

*Loudness and clarity*



Emuc64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> 1) If I were to find that dialog through a center speaker were not very clear, would turning up the volume on the center speaker only (assuming you can do that) be the only way to hear dialog?


This is one reason responders have tried to gently push you towards expanding your budget a little. Often lack of clarity is caused by lack of speaker quality. Turning up the volume doesn't bring clarity, it just makes bad sound *louder*. 

SVS is having a great sale on their bookshelf speakers. A 5.0 set is $200 off, at just $399. Throw in a PB-10 NSD and for $800 you'll have a great sound 5.1 system. That will leave you enough to buy a nice receiver. 

I have Ascends and an SVS PB-12 NSD. The Ascends are great, but would bust your budget. I've measured my PB-12 NSD in my home theater and it's flat from 17-80hz. It will literally shake the walls even at moderate volume!


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> This statement is not factual, most speaker manufacturers clearly state in there manuals that come with the speakers that break in is going to change the sound over the first few weeks of use.


It actually is factual from a mechanical perspective. 

http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction is good overview. 

Manufacturers include this so people won't return their speakers. The first few weeks are the adjustment period to new speaker's defects. :crying: But there aren't perfect speakers(B&W 802's get close) 
so it's to expected.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Many thanks to (in order of appearance) Jungle Jack, tonyvdb, selden, salvasol, lsiberian, and TonyG. Thanks to all of your input, advice, and time spent on replying, I've managed to put in the order for my new system. It's no $50,000 home theater system, but I think you've all helped me get something much better than a HTiB.
> 
> ...


Well done. I think you will really enjoy that setup for years to come. If you don't and get the upgrade bug. You know where to come. :R


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> Well done. I think you will really enjoy that setup for years to come. If you don't and get the upgrade bug. You know where to come. :R


Hi,

Again, it’s thanks to everyone here that I got something that works well with my budget. My current salary and wallet will assure me that I’m immunized from the upgrade bug. For now.

After I get married and a house, then we’ll see about how everything will sound in a new room. I’ll definitely come here for more sound advice.

H.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

*Re: Loudness and clarity*



DougMac said:


> This is one reason responders have tried to gently push you towards expanding your budget a little. Often lack of clarity is caused by lack of speaker quality. Turning up the volume doesn't bring clarity, it just makes bad sound *louder*.
> 
> SVS is having a great sale on their bookshelf speakers. A 5.0 set is $200 off, at just $399. Throw in a PB-10 NSD and for $800 you'll have a great sound 5.1 system. That will leave you enough to buy a nice receiver.
> 
> I have Ascends and an SVS PB-12 NSD. The Ascends are great, but would bust your budget. I've measured my PB-12 NSD in my home theater and it's flat from 17-80hz. It will literally shake the walls even at moderate volume!


Hello,

I see what you're saying. Thanks for the encouragement but for now, I think I'll be happy with my setup. Money's a wee bit tight, so a $1200 spree is just right for my current situation. That said, I'll always keep my eyes and ears open towards spending a bit more for the next HT purchase/upgrade.

Thanks,
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> It actually is factual from a mechanical perspective.
> 
> http://www.audioholics.com/education/loudspeaker-basics/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction is good overview.
> 
> ...


Hi,

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure how much of it I'll understand (especially this late at night), but I've got it bookmarked.

Honestly though, I never thought that speaker break-in would be such a contested subject. I figured if something moves around, there's going to be wear and if there's wear then there'd have to be a break in period, right? Like sneakers? Good thing there's tests that can be done and measured in a mechanical sense.

Thanks,
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> At least on my Onkyo, press Channel Select and the level + button to raise the level after choosing Center Channel (each speaker including subwoofer shows up)
> Cheers,
> JJ


Hello,

Thanks for the tip. It was like that on my old Onkyo HTiB, but that one kept the settings if it was ever adjusted. I'll have to check it out on my new system once everything is set up. SOOO many buttons! :gulp: 

I'll ask again if I can't figure it out or it doesn't work. But for now, it's a start.

Thanks,
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi,

A quick update! My speakers came in and I hooked them up last night and briefly tested them a little. My parents are actually visiting me and they said they liked the warmness of the sound. Must be the bass coming from the bookshelves.

I just have the receiver and speakers currently. I'm using the old speaker wires that came with my other system. Today I had more time to play. Played some music CDs, a few snippets of movies, and demoed a game or two. I must say... I REALLY like them. If they sound better as time goes on, it's just icing on the cake. It's perfect for my current needs.

I can't wait to get the rest of my stuff! The subwoofer comes in tomorrow and all of my cables are scheduled to come in -ack- Monday. At least I can temporarily hook everything up to test it and enjoy it too.

Well, back to some more tests! 

H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I am so happy for you. The Subwoofer is going to add a huge dimension and is a very quality transducer. Enjoy.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jon Liu (May 21, 2007)

Congrats! Now just sit back and enjoy!


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the link. I'm not sure how much of it I'll understand (especially this late at night), but I've got it bookmarked.
> 
> ...


Well new shoes are actually preferred by many athletes so I'm not sure about the shoe thing either. :neener:


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> Well new shoes are actually preferred by many athletes so I'm not sure about the shoe thing either. :neener:


Hi,

Interesting. I'd never heard of that before. Well, in my opinion, athletes are a different kind of folk than Average Joes. I was always taught and have heard from everyone who I've encountered, that broken in shoes always feel better than new ones. Maybe that's why some people are hesitant to give up old sneakers? ... What were we talking about again? I suppose in the end, "broken-in things are better" only apply to those who think they do.

H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Professional Athletes have shoes which are custom made to their exact foot. At least the big timers do.


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> Professional Athletes have shoes which are custom made to their exact foot. At least the big timers do.


Hi,

Hm... well that explains it. Does this hold true for people who have speakers and subwoofers custom made as well? Assuming they believe in things being broken-in sounding different, would they prefer only "new" custom built sound equipment?

H


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Some companies do test and operate components prior to shipping to make sure they measure and operate as they are designed to. Bryston, who makes legendary amplifiers, provides a set of measurements for every particular amplifier they ship out.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hi All,

Another question has come up. Does anyone have suggestions for inexpensive (~$30 for a pair) speaker stands? I need a pair for the mini-bookshelf surrounds (Energy C-50) that weigh close to 7 lbs each.

What should I look for when researching it? Are speaker stands for bookshelves universal?

There aren't any kids or pets. The stands would be on carpet. The stands do not have to hide the wires, but it would be a bonus.

Thanks,
H


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## Emuc64 (Nov 15, 2009)

Hello,

Please disregard the last post about speaker stands. I just purchased some from StudioTech.com. I've never heard of the company, but hopefully they're alright. There's not a listing for them on BBB.org, but that also means there haven't been complaints. I think that most people tend to complain more than compliment.

Anyways, I bought 2 sets of their "SW-30 s". 30" speaker stands made of medium density fiberboard, some wire management, carpet spikes, and rubber spikes for hardwood floors. $20 for a pair shipped. The only caveat is that the cheap ones are silver and the black ones are regular price at $69. I could always paint them a different color if silver bothers my significant other.

I'll report back on the stands after I receive them.

H


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## Lordoftherings (Feb 8, 2009)

Emuc64 said:


> Hello,
> 
> Many thanks to (in order of appearance) Jungle Jack, tonyvdb, selden, salvasol, lsiberian, and TonyG. Thanks to all of your input, advice, and time spent on replying, I've managed to put in the order for my new system. It's no $50,000 home theater system, but I think you've all helped me get something much better than a HTiB.
> 
> ...


:yeahthat: Lol, excellent man. :T

* And as a Bonus for you, Audyssey Setup Guide: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=14456895&postcount=5701


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