# Do I Need HDMI 2.0?



## TheLaw612 (Jan 17, 2012)

I'm in the market for a new receiver and have been monitoring the prices of the Denon X1000 and X2000 on ac4l and was wondering... Should I wait for hdmi 2.0 in a receiver for my eventual 4k projector purchase or will hdmi 1.4 be fine? I'm trying to avoid buying another receiver one or two years from now. The one I have now has lasted me 6 years. Thanks.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

4K up to 30fps is supported under HDMI 1.4. HDMI 2.0 adds Rec 2020 and 4:2:0 color, and 4k/60fps support. The other additions that make up 2.0 are mostly audio formats that will probably never be actually used. In fact, 4K/60 will be a rare bird for a very long time. As long as we all expect our movies to be in 24p, none of those frame rates will be used much. Same thing for the color capabilities, you gotta have the raw material, and that's unlikely since the installed base of players and displays won't handle it.

There is practically no 4K material now, so the 4K you'll be using is up-scaled 1080p for the near future, unless you're a Sony fan, in which case you have to get their smart displays with the 4K server built in. For projectors, the scaler will be either in the projector, in a source device like a BD player, or in your AVR like the X2000. The advantage with it in the AVR is the ability to scale all sources, and tweak on the video a bit, the advantage of scaling in the projector or display is the scaling can be customized to the display technology and scale all sources. The AVR you get should be able to switch 4K sources to be future proof, but there's little need to handle high frame rates, which will likely follow the path of 3d. 

The X2000 should be fine. I'm an X4000 owner, and never considered the X2000, but the core tech is mostly the same.


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## TheLaw612 (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm really just trying to avoid buying something now only to find that I need something new again in a year or two. It sounds like I'll be fine going with the X2000.


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## kokishin (May 26, 2014)

In conjunction with HDMI 2.0, won't HDCP 2.2 be a necessity to be 4K future proof?


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

kokishin said:


> In conjunction with HDMI 2.0, won't HDCP 2.2 be a necessity to be 4K future proof?


Theoretically, yes, but since no media has been standardized for 4K, and HDCP 2.2 hasn't been implemented on any media of any kind yet, whatever you buy today even with HDCP 2.2 will probably be only partially compliant at best. That's assuming we actually do get 4K media, other than some form of download or stream. Frankly, it seems unlikely. There are HUGE marketing issues. Sales stats of BD don't show enough growth (actually a fall-off is projected this year) even for that medium, disc sales of DVDs still beat BD, and streaming is killing them both, and squashing the brick/mortar disc rental market. How on earth would you get people to buy another player with another TV that affords the typical viewer minimal if any noticeable improvement, and may force an entire system upgrade including the AVR? I don't see it happening in the top of the bell curve, only at the bleeding edge.

I'm fairly confident that by the time HDCP 2.2 because the deal breaker, there will be plenty of other reasons to upgrade an AVR again. And that's a long time from now.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Just saying, ignorance is bliss. I'm ignorant and I'm at peace with my bliss. The point, buy the best technology one can afford and maybe some extra. Be ignorant and be blissful. Time is going run us over, no matter how hard we try to stay out of it's way. I'm not trying to be cute here.

Example. I was showing off a computer I had put together. The individual was suitable impressed and commented about my being on the cutting edge of technology. And with a realist's heart, I responded, no, I'm on the cutting edge of obsolescence because in eighteen months, my cutting edge rig will be last year's news. That's why some here prefer separates so when necessary, they can replace the Pre-Pro with updated cutting edge technology and keep the amplifier.

(fwiw, i too don't want to have to buy new gear next year)


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## sdurani (Oct 28, 2010)

I would hold off on making any major or long-term purchases until reading announcements from CEDIA in September. There is a prefect storm coming, with a trifecta of changes in connectivity (HDMI 2.0), video (4K) and sound (object-based audio). 

I'd be tempted to wait-n-see if any one of those were changing. But when all three are transitioning simultaneously? I definitely wouldn't be buying right now.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Just saying, in my opinion, unless one plans on upgrading to the latest and greatest video technology six months or a year down the road, it doesn't matter.

FWIW, we recently upgraded our AVR. So in Jan 2014, we upgraded to the newest flagship AVR........that came out in the last quarter of 2012.

Now the talk is of a new unit that "MAY" hit the streets, yet nobody knows when or what it will be called and there's discussion regarding changes in methods of transferring content from Blu-ray to streaming, all the while there's argument as to is there enough bandwidth to handle HD streaming content.

The point, buy with an understanding that there's "ALWAYS" something new around the corner and inevitably, if one cares, they're going have to expect hitting the hip to stay up with advances in technology. We have five speakers and two subwoofers and most sound comes to us via 5.1 technology.

The truth be known, it's all a conspiracy to get us to part with more of our money so someone can IPO and become a billionaire. Accessories4Less has some screaming good deals on refurbs. Buy what tickles your fancy with the understanding, no matter what, something new will come down the pike and that's just the way it is.

(i sure wish i could be more insightful and informative but either one buys today to have and enjoy or do without and always worry)


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If you keep waiting for the "next best thing or feature" you will never upgrade. In a few years 8k will be all the rave. Just get the Denon and enjoy


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

HDMI is an interconnection technology only, it's not a definition of new media, nor does the existence of an advanced interconnection standard indicate that all if its capability will ever be used. The HDMI standard is not a reason to upgrade or not. The reasons to upgrade are legitimate improvements in picture and sound, the availability of new (useful!) features, or plain old gear lust. The HDMI 2.0 standards will mean nothing to anyone for several years, some of it possibly never. You can get 4K/24p through HDMI 1.4a right now, if there actually were any. 

What the HDMI Consortium has done with 2.0 is, for the first time, standardize their crazy interconnect to encompass more than the most likely future scenarios. 32 channels of 24/192 audio? Right, never going to happen, it's one nut in a million that has the money, room, and wife that would permit 32 speakers. 4K/60? Nope, never going to happen. The only application would be live sports, and there's no live transmission medium now or in the foreseeable future that can handle that kind of bandwidth, even with H.26X. There is no media for either 4/60 or 32 speakers, not even planned. Oh, and those 4K TVs you buy now? The standards aren't even finalized! That thing could be obsolete faster than a 1080p display! 

That stuff is there in HDMI because the Consortium no doubt got sick of releasing the next fractional update ever six months, and decided to just get it done once and for all, then leave audio and video alone. Of course, there will be minor updates, but the big stuff is covered right up to 8K. 

HDCP...well, if there were a 4K disc in the offing, perhaps, but there isn't. BD hasn't achieved full market penetration, DVDs still outsell them. And streaming/download has crushed all physical media, so I wouldn't advise any breath-holding on a 4k disc. Besides, it's not just the disc, its the player and the display too. The AVR is the one thing that's ready now. All those upgrades are expensive, and the improvement isn't even half of the jump from 480p to 1080p as far as viewable value. It's going to be a long-slow haul.

The idea of future-proofing a purchase in consumer electronics is ludicrous. It changes all the time in one way or other. But a smart way to do it is to plan upgrades. Buy a decent and capable AVR, and plan an upgrade in 2-3 years when the unit still has at least 50% of its original value in it, meaning the cash outlay would be 50% or less of the original purchase to upgrade to the latest/greatest within the same class. That's less cost as holding onto an AVR for six years then upgrading, because a six year old AVR has less than 1/4 of its original value left. Upgrades should be planned to coincide with new model releases to maximize useful life of the new product, and maximize value of the old. New entry level Denon AVRs will ship by the third week in June, some of the X series by end of July, the rest by mid August, if you want some sample dates.

Planning upgrades also means budgeting for them, which makes them even less painful. Budget for the upgrades so that the AVR is in years opposite the display, etc. Or stagger slightly farther apart, but don't get off the plan. You won't be concerned with becoming obsolete, you'll have new stuff more of the time, and it won't cost you more, it'll cost less.

Ignorance is bliss right up until it bites you, then it's extremely painful.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

gazoink said:


> Ignorance is bliss right up until it bites you, then it's extremely painful.


No philosophy is perfect. We all need to have one we can hang a hat on. Ignorance allows for a hat tree of many branches.


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## macromicroman (May 17, 2014)

I think the simple answer for the OP is no. I'm not sure that the receivers advertising they are HDMI 2.0 actually meet all the standards for 2.0 as listed above.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

macromicroman said:


> I'm not sure that the receivers advertising they are HDMI 2.0 actually meet all the standards for 2.0 as listed above.


Looking at the new Denon S-series, they appear to hit HDMI 2.0 just fine, at least with "pass through" on everything, even going beyond to 4-4-4 color sub-sampling pass-through. Not that there's much hope of any of that stuff any time soon. Now, actually doing something other than pass-through with any of the stuff in 2.0...now that's a very different story.


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## macromicroman (May 17, 2014)

I know that many of the new AVRs and processors will up convert video to 4K, but I don't think that qualifies as HDMI 2.0.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

macromicroman said:


> I know that many of the new AVRs and processors will up convert video to 4K, but I don't think that qualifies as HDMI 2.0.


Correct. 4K existed in HDMI 1.4a.


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## mdrums (Jan 1, 2007)

Broadcast TV is supposed to be 4K 60hz correct? If so when do you all think broadcast TV will come out in 4K 60hz? I am thinking it's going to be years down the road...5 years?


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

mdrums said:


> Broadcast TV is supposed to be 4K 60hz correct? If so when do you all think broadcast TV will come out in 4K 60hz? I am thinking it's going to be years down the road...5 years?


Broadcast TV will never be 4K/60 in the current channel bandwidth. They can't even manage 1080p/60. All 60 frame TV is 720p.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Just to add: US HDTV broadcast maxes out at 1080i, there's no 1080p at any frame rate.


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