# PT 4000 owners, how are your blacks?



## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

I am not too satisfied with the blacks on this PJ yet, it's my first PJ so I have no prior expereince to go off of, but I was expecting a bit better.

Now, when I say blacks, I mean when a movie shows a mostly black scene, cave scenes in "The Decent", beginning scene in "The Matrix" and the beginning scene of "Ninja Assassin" just as reference. I understand that the blacks won't be as black as my screen border but as of right now, I'm getting distracted by the "bright" black scenes. I almost feel that they have a bit of a bluish tint sometimes too... could be just my eyes though, not sure..

I was wondering if any of you had made your blacks better with diy tweaking or professional calibration. Any thoughts would be great 

FYI, room is 100% light controlled, along with dark walls and carpet so that's not the issue. Cinema 1, brightness +2, contrast +5, dynamic iris on, which did make a little difference, but once a movie is playing, still an issue for me :dontknow:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Chris,

I am by no means an expert, but I wonder if knowing what type of screen you are using might help. As I understand it, a higher gain screen might cause the washed-out look you are seeing with refracted light.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

There are many variables that can cause the black not being deep. Are these movies all BluRay, what player are you using, do you have any video settings in the player that are turned on like noise reduction. Also the receiver can also mess with your picture quality, make sure that you are not adding any processing to the signal.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

Thanks for the replies guys. I'm using Seymour Center Stage XD screen material, along with a Panasonic DMP-BDT210P blu-ray player and a Marantz SR5005 AVR. I don't think any processing has been done via player or receiver but I could be wrong. I'm letting the PJ warm up right now and I'm going to toss on The Matrix using my PS3 instead of the Panasonic player and see if there is any difference.

And yes, all movies were blu-ray


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

So I just tossed on The Matrix on my PS3 and got the same result. I even zoomed out to see how dark the black bars were and they were darker than the blacks in the movie but still quite visible against the screen border.. man, I wish some of you guys were closer to me so I can see how yours look compared to mine 

EDIT: Just a side note if it matters, when projecting a "black" screen via PS3 or Blu-Ray player, and I stick my hand in the light path, quite a bit of light shows up on my hand and the difference between my hand shadow and the black picture on the screen is quite dramatic, I think anyway.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Try a different HDMI cable from the receiver to the projector.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

So I took your advice and ran a temporary HDMI cable from the receiver to the projector and there was no difference, I also ran an HDMI cable straight from the Blu-ray player to the projector, and again, no difference.

I did make a little bit of progress though, I had Transformers dark of the moon playing to see the star scene in the beginning, I paused it and went through a few settings. When It's set to cinema 1 like normal, I can see a difference between the black sky and the black bars, but then when I switch it to cinema 2, the black bars and the black screen blend much better. The projector is still throwing out quite a bit of light for the black bars though, but at least I got the movie blacks to match the black bars better


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Have you tried running a calibration disc? I find Spears & Munsil to be quite good.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

Yes, I downloaded one that was recommended on avs, forgot the name off the top of my head. I adjusted for brightness and contrast without much change. I also don't have the color filters to do any color calibration though :/


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Get the Spears & Munsil disc or the DVE HD Basics disc. Skip the avs disc.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

This isn't meant to be taken sarcastically but what can those two discs do that the AVS HD 709 disc can't without any calibration equipment?


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

If you know what you are doing the avs disc is ok. The only reason I used to carry it at all was for the patterns when calibrating with a meter. Now that I have a generator, I no longer carry it at all. I do, however, carry the Spears & Munsil, DVE HD Basics, and the Disney's World of Wonder discs with me. They offer a lot more than just setting your white and black levels.

If it were me, and I was looking for one disc to have and use without a meter, it would be the Spears & Munsil disc. :T


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

Ok, all sounds good, but do you think I could get my blacks darker with a calibration disc like the one you mention or should I just try and source a professional calibrator? If that will even help of course.


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## moe4ever (Feb 21, 2012)

The right calibration makes a world of difference, I used the S&M thanks to Mech's recommendation. I have the epson 8350 and I watched Young Justice (Carton Network) and Toy Story 3 with my son over the weekend and the colors were so vivid and alive, the blacks were also really black. Just keep in mind you will lose some brightness to get really good blacks, I am using Black Widow as my screen.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Remember that in a front projection system that black is nothing more than the absence of light. If there is ambient lighting or projected light reflecting off of walls/ceiling/etc this will all have an effect upon blacks. If you are in a totally dark room with a black ceiling and walls then the problem could be light leaking from the pj.


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## moe4ever (Feb 21, 2012)

What Mech said, I have total light control and my room is painted dark chocolate brown.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

Try turning the dynamic iris off and recalibrate for black and see what happens.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

Digital_Chris said:


> EDIT: Just a side note if it matters, when projecting a "black" screen via PS3 or Blu-Ray player, and I stick my hand in the light path, quite a bit of light shows up on my hand and the difference between my hand shadow and the black picture on the screen is quite dramatic, I think anyway.


This was mentioned on the previous page, it's not reflected light from walls/ceiling that is causing my grayed blacks, its definitely my projector throwing out a "not so black" black. Why do projectors, mine anyway throw out such a bright black? It doesn't make sense.

I also mentioned earlier I think, or in another thread that my walls are dark maroon and ceiling is black, but like I said, reflected light is not my problem.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

As mentioned in my first post, my room is 100% light controlled.

Also, I originally calibrated for brightness and contrast before I tried dynamic iris. Dynamic iris helps, but is by no means a cure for my issue.


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## megageek (Oct 27, 2011)

On the ps3 go into your video setting and make sure hdmi colour output is set to rgb. Not auto or the other one i cant remember.
Also on the projector side, check it too is set to rgb for hdmi colour. 
If this is all ok and black levels are still not good enough, i'd suggest its time to upgrade to a dlp. I have personally done a test with my old dlp (hc1100) against my new panasonic plasma and with the lights off, the projector is blacker! NO JOKE!! 
I had a panasonic projector before my mitsubishi dlp and i completely agree with what your experiencing. Lcd projectors are an inferior technology and dynamic irises dont help.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

I'm experiencing the problem with not only the PS3 but my panasonic blu-ray player as well. There are no color settings like you mention on my PJ, not anything like on the PS3 anyway.

And the dynamic iris DID help, just not enough.


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## megageek (Oct 27, 2011)

The dynamic iris physically limits the light that reaches the lcd panels. Thus making the image duller. On a pure black image, it produces a good black level. But on a black and white image ( say like a chess board style test) the iris wants to close to achieve its black levels which in turn dulls all the white square's. This is the difference between true contrast and the ridiculous figures they put on the box. Lcd's by there design have poor contrast levels compared to other technology's in the same price range (dlp). They put dynamic iris's on these projectors to up the spec sheet but it really isnt an image enhacing technology. In their testing they play a pure black image (iris shut) measure its brightness, then play a pure white image (iris open) measure its brightness and then write 50 squillion to one contrast ratio on the box. Its a ruse!
In opperation you can see the image going dull and bright depending on the scene. For you id test the scene in ratatouille where he's trying the cheese and the strawberry. The background should be nice and black and the colours should stay bright and vibrant! My old dlp does really well in this scene!
All my whinging aside, im sure it produces a fine image but if your settings are all correct and your still not happy with black levels, id suggest a look at a dlp. They always surprise!!


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

How are you calibrating the set for black?


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Sounds like there may be too much light leakage for your liking. Is it still within the return window?


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

lcaillo said:


> How are you calibrating the set for black?


Just by the AVS downloadable test pattern disc using the black and white bars and by adjusting the contrast and brightness. I'm not calibrating for blacks per say, just adjusting the brightness and contrast hoping that it would help.

And to the others, I'm not ready to give up yet, I really like the PJ, picture is fantastic. Others seem to be uber happy with the blacks from their 4000 so I'm hoping the right tuning could help :dontknow:


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

When you say black and white bars, exactly what pattern? You should be using a pluge pattern to set your black level.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

How many hrs do you have on your bulb? if your bulb is old and needs replacing you may be over compensating for the lack of brightness and washing out the blacks.


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## Digital_Chris (Apr 7, 2011)

lcaillo said:


> When you say black and white bars, exactly what pattern? You should be using a pluge pattern to set your black level.


I believe it was a pluge pattern, I was using the patters from the HD709 disc I downloaded.



tonyvdb said:


> How many hrs do you have on your bulb? if your bulb is old and needs replacing you may be over compensating for the lack of brightness and washing out the blacks.


The Pj is new and has less than 200 hours on the bulb.


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