# Sealed Subwoofers



## ceetee (Oct 7, 2012)

i am looking to upgrade my subwoofers and was thinking about the HSU ULS-15 Dual Drive system. though my setup as is sounds great, i am into music much more than home theater and pipe organ music just isn't happening right now, my subs just do not go low enough to hear/feel the impact. my mind is pretty made up but any suggestions are more than welcome. just looking for a little input/feedback.... thanks!

Main Home Audio/Video System Equipment: 

Denon AVR-1910 [looking to upgrade]
Pioneer DV-610AV universal dvd player [looking to upgrade]
LG BP-610 Blu-ray Player [looking to upgrade to OPPO BDP-103/105]
Monster HTS Home Theater 1600 Powercenter
Samsung 32" LCD [looking to upgrade to Samsung 51" Plasma]
Definitive Technology BP8B [pair - front speakers]
Definitive Technology CLR 2002 [center speaker]
Definitive Technology BP6B [pair - surround speakers]
Definitive Technology SuperCube III [looking to upgrade to HSU ULS-15 DualDrive system] 
Energy ESW V8 [looking to upgrade to HSU ULS-15 DualDrive system]


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

If you heart is set on a sealed sub I can think of none better in that price range. However, if your open to a ported design take a look at this review.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...vs-legato-subwoofer-review.html#axzz2CgJLjvTc

I have a lower model SVS and find it very musical.


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## ceetee (Oct 7, 2012)

Andre, checking it out as i write, very fond of SVS! also, my choice for sealed was due to the 'lag' that some [not all] ported subs have. this could be annoying when listening to music whereas the timing [especially in classical music and jazz] is of the utmost importance. my Energy is very tight for any type of sub and very musical, but just doesn't go down deep enough for me. thanks for the input!!!

just realized... "Subwoofers: Ported vs. Sealed" sounds like a great topic!


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

The most muscial sub I have heard is a very picky beast that love to be adjusted but once it is, sounded nearly seamless with the large maggys I heard them with. It was the REL R-328


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I have the ULS-15 Quad drive and can attest to superb performance on 16Hz organ notes. In my 12x20x8 room, which is well treated with bass traps, and with the ULS-15s on the 50Hz setting (minimum LF boost) and spread across one of the 12' walls, the response at the listening position _rises_ below 20Hz to at least 10Hz. That is with using REW with a calibrated ECM 8000 mic.

That all said, SVS does make fine subs, but the Hsu's fine finish (about the only manufacturer that offered walnut at the time, sadly gone now) plus the quantity discount sold me. Two may have been enough, but when I bought I wanted to "kill" it and with four, I certainly did.

I have a review here at HTS of my impressions of the Quad Drive with REW plots:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...u-uls-15-quad-drive-review.html#axzz2CiBFQLQM


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

My experience with subs is essentially like this: no matter what careful set up is crucial to get anything musical from them. You need to make measurements and set up for better measurements--whatever that takes. REW is an excellent tool for this and is very intuitive. The flatter and more extended my listening position has measured, the better and more musical it has sounded regardless of the sub(s) used. The SQ difference between various subwoofers isn't really worth mentioning until you have them set up exceedingly well. Most people I know have not put in nearly enough effort to make that happen. Even the ones that spend a lot of money on their subs($1,000usd+).

I've read several books on acoustics/psychoacoustics. All of them talk about the room and the output measurements and how it relates to perceived bass quality. None of them mention the quality of the subwoofer. The same cannot be said for the rest of the spectrum.

I'd still buy the best quality sub I could b/c I've owned cheaper ones and they've died young. My pricier ones have lived on to fight another day.

Dan


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## ceetee (Oct 7, 2012)

Dan, tel me more... and don't make me beg! which books are you referring to, would like to check them out. i'm a newbie still looking for a clue.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I have seen a post or two from Dr. Hsu saying ported or sealed doesn't matter - a well designed sub will sound great. As I recall, that was his answer to someone debating between the VTF-15H and the ULS-15.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Start with Dr. Toole's book on loudspeakers and rooms. It's really the only one you need, but Howard/Angus have a great book that's a bit more brutal to read. Also the master handbook of Acoustics by F. Alton Everest. 

There are several more, but that's already more than you really need. Maybe Premium Home Theater by Earl Geddes.

Dan


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## ceetee (Oct 7, 2012)

hjones4841, thanks for the info, i hope to pick your brain more on this soon.


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## ceetee (Oct 7, 2012)

Dan, got Toole's book and will be reading it over thanksgiving... thanks!


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

You're welcome. 

Dan


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## ceetee (Oct 7, 2012)

i forgot to mention a couple of things... first, i am a confirmed bass head! also, my room is 14x14x9 [you read it right]. i live in a small studio but love my music loud and clear!


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

ceetee said:


> hjones4841, thanks for the info, i hope to pick your brain more on this soon.


You are very welcome, but sometimes the pickings are slim.

By all means read up on acoustics and room treatments. All the theory can be intimidating to some folks, but there is much help here at HTS in our Home Audio Acoustics forum. I used to not believe in bass trapping, but a friend convinced me to add some to my room. With the help of bpape here on HTS and the fine folks at GIK, I transformed the acoustics of my room. I had the advantage of the room being 100% HT, so decor went out the window, but my, my does the system sound good in it!


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Im a huge pipe organ fan myself.... so I know your need for the lowest octave....please consider adding a passive radiator OR building yourself a new sub all together ....Its a very satisfying experience and to offset the cost you shouldn't have a problem selling your current subs....My motto is "we only get this one chance so go for broke !!! "

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=293-666

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=293-684


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

I have a bedroom about that same size. Every probable listening area had a 45Hz mode. It's not a very good shape/size for sound that's for sure.

I'd love to see some measurements from your current set up. That sub--with a 7.5" driver and 2 passive radiators is claiming 16Hz from 0.6 cuft. If it does that, it won't do it loud. You ned large subs to do what you want!

Essentially, you won't that 16Hz deep unless you have a sub that will get it, and get it loud. A couple subs would be better. Hope you have some cash. When I was looking at subs, the best deals I found were actually not DIY. Against full retail price, DIY is likely better by a little. If your time is money and your tools are limited... you may still be better off retail. Your biggest savings would be on that cabinet. Precut kits won't save you much at all. I found closeout deals on my subs. They were $800+ originally. Got them for $200. Look at Harman's online store, Amazon, and Accessories4less before doing anything.

Someone mentioned bass shakers. I've only experienced one system with them and it just wasn't the same as actually having the pressure from deep notes. The system I heard them in wasn't of any great design however and was completely unmeasured and not calibrated. I would think if you could time the signals correctly, you'd be okay.

Dan


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Or perhaps no one mentioned bass shakers--wrong thread I think.

Dan


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

ceetee said:


> though my setup as is sounds great, i am into music much more than home theater and pipe organ music just isn't happening right now, my subs just do not go low enough to hear/feel the impact. my mind is pretty made up but any suggestions are more than welcome.


I'm not sure what your budget is, but one of the best subwoofers by far is the Seaton Submersive. If you want depth, precision and volume the Submersive is almost legendary in that regard.

You should look into the Kreisel 12012 as well. I haven't heard that one myself, but the spec's are incredible.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

theJman said:


> I'm not sure what your budget is, but one of the best subwoofers by far is the Seaton Submersive. If you want depth, precision and volume the Submersive is almost legendary in that regard.
> 
> You should look into the Kreisel 12012 as well. I haven't heard that one myself, but the spec's are incredible.


IMO even a dual 12" like the Kreisel is not going to do justice to the lowest octave....impressive as it looks on paper...

Even my dual 13.5's are struggling at 20hz...though my room is small and my next door neighbors might disagree about the term "struggling" ...

Im saving up for my next adventure in subwoofertopia.... It will be 1 TC SOUNDS 18" ULTRA 5400 with at least 1 if not 2 of the TC 18" Passive radiators... Im still researching the math and conceiving of a cabinet that will withstand that sort of SPL ....Ill most likely drive it with the CROWN XLS 2500


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