# Switching back to Yamaha receiver...



## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

So, with all the Christmas decorations in the home and everything having to be moved around and also loosing my mains and dual subs leaving just my center and surrounds, I decided to remove my Elite receiver and install my Yamaha. All I can honestly say is this, there is a huge sound quality difference and a more natural, organic, and rich lifelike sound. I miss playing with the adaptable Cinema DSP modes and the huge surrounding effects of the Cinema DSP. I know it starts with those burr brown converters and just gets better from there. My Elite although very clear sounded mechanical vs. the rich realistic sound of my Yamaha. With Cinema DSP it even seems my center has dropped an octave making me constantly recheck to make sure its still small and not somehow swithced to large. Everything seems just tonally deeper and very real sounding. The qualities are very obvious and sometimes one does need to explore other makes to realize qualities. Just thought i'd share and cannot wait to set everything as normal and run YPAO. Happy Holidays everyone!


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## Dub King (Aug 10, 2012)

It is entirely possible you are enjoying two of Yamaha's stronger suits: amplifier design and surround-sound processing. It's also likely that the Yammy is enjoying some degree of synergy with your speakers. Perhaps it was also time for a change... back to a sound tonality and quality you know and love.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks for responding, i'm still exploring the very obvious drop in tonal extension in all speakers by playing with crossover settings. It just makes what was lacking very very obvious. :nerd:


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## Dub King (Aug 10, 2012)

If you set both receivers to 2 channel direct audio with an analog source, then you can see if the audible differences are coming from the amp stage, if that's not the case then try 2 channel digital audio run through the respective DACs. If that's not making the difference, switch to surround sound, but instead of doing an auto setup enter the same parameters manually. 

Of course it could be a combination of factors as you asserted, or it could be one thing you isolate. I'm curious which it is.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I'm wondering if your Elite wasn't EQ-Ed properly... If you ran auto-MCACC, it's possible that it came up with some weird settings. I initially had some very poor outcomes with MCACC until I took the time time to understand it... The end result was night and day.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

I had over 60 hours within the professional EQ side of things experimenting with the standing wave measures, so it wasn't the EQ or setup. I also had almost as much time experimenting with YPAO as well measuring with all else the same, verifying performance with minimal variables.

The direct mode was most obvious, the sound so full and rich vs. thin and mechanical. I started there with as much processing off just to see what differences would be.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Mic placement is crucial in getting the correct outcome. Could it be possible that the MMAC mic placement was wrong? using a tripod is a must and at ear level.


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

Tripod used and also Kemar that I also used to perform real-ear masurements. 22 year background in Audiology and Hearing Science Measurements, i'm a sound nerd :nerd:


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Wow... I'm really surprised you can hear that much of a difference. 

More power to ya, I guess. Now you know which one to roll with! :T


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yup, the ear is the real test, if you like what you hear then thats what matters.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

I’ve used Yamaha flagship models exclusively since the early 90s and have been very pleased with them, so I don’t know how they sound compared to other brands. I’ve always liked their excellent manuals and their better-than-average remotes. Love the soundfields, too!

If I changed brands Pioneer would probably be my second choice, so it’s a bit distressing to hear how disappointed you were with their Elite model, which is top-of-the-line isn’t it?

Regards, 
Wayne


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

The Elite provides a mechanical sound but was extremely clear just not rich, thick, and full like our Yamaha's. I did like the Advanced MCACC features with all its adjustability and crazy amount of tweakability. That was the main reason for purchasing it, all the crazy adjustments. I do praise the "Expert" level MCACC and all 3 of its target curves and of course the Pro MCACC with the time delay adjustments and reverb views. Most will find with the Elite products to be satisfied with even the Full Auto MCACC with its delays. So, it is clear sounding don't get me wrong but its no match for Yamaha's Cinema DSP and its listening modes, whole different sound quality arena. No comparison. The depth and richness of the sound is too good and the width shot cannot be matched by the Elite, with all else the same. The extension and fullness with crossovers set at same points still is just so hard to escape. I had been missing out on extension and response with the Elite.


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## Dub King (Aug 10, 2012)

So, does your Pioneer Elite have preamp outputs? If so, you've got a great opportunity here to power your front L/R channels with the Yamaha for that richer sound, while still taking advantage of the Elite's additional features.



tonyvdb said:


> Yup, the ear is the real test, if you like what you hear then thats what matters.


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

I suspect the digital amp (switching noise?) doesnt play well with your rather detailed speaker. The Ascend HTM-200 sounded too bright on my modern Integra. I'm using a Vintage Pioneer SX-770 Receiver and Ascend HTM-200. I find this to be a lovely combination (used primarily for a spare bedroom radio). 

I've really been wanting to try the new Sierra and have heard wonderful things about it.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

I love me some width shot...

Joking, what do you mean by width shot?


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## hearingspecialist (Mar 15, 2010)

I was referencing how wide the rear surrounds project sound and how wide the mains expanded, width. Just seems Cinema DSP is super wide with effects.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I’ve used Yamaha flagship models exclusively since the early 90s and have been very pleased with them, so I don’t know how they sound compared to other brands. I’ve always liked their excellent manuals and their better-than-average remotes. Love the soundfields, too!
> 
> If I changed brands Pioneer would probably be my second choice, so it’s a bit distressing to hear how disappointed you were with their Elite model, which is top-of-the-line isn’t it?
> 
> ...


I guess I express some surprise simply because I love my elite avr... but, it really comes down to individual preferences.


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