# Replacing an Onkyo HTIB: Speaker and receiver recommendations



## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

I am considering replacing a new Onkyo HTIB HT-S9400THX, which performs well, because I think there may be a better value for relatively little more money. I had an earlier Onkyo HTIB which served me well, and feel they offer a good value.

However, I think the speakers are the weak point, and if I am getting other speakers, I have to consider another receiver as well. I'm about to have ChadB calibrate the Panasonic TC-65PS64 this AV system serves, and so I'd like to have a receiver that would benefit from or justify his audio services, such as Audyssey Pro. My current system is wired for 6.1 (a single rear speaker), but I am not averse to 7.2 or 9.2 with High Front speakers, although neither of those are worth a lot of money to me. I have 8 receiver/speaker scenarios with pricing information in a Google Sheet I could share, but will not post the link because I assume that would be like posting prices, and I'm not interested in annoying any Mods.

So I'm considering, in order of my current, constantly preference:

Receivers
1) Onkyo TX-NR818
2) Onkyo TX-NR828 (Has Audyssey MultEQ, but not T32; has ind. power supply, lacks ISF cal)
3) Onkyo TX-NR929 (Still selling near list, don't really need THX Ultra2 Plus; has ind. power supply) 
4) Onkyo TX-NR1010 (available as refurb)
5) Similar non-Onkyos

Speakers (planning to get two 5.1 systems to give me two subs and an extra speaker or two for future expansion or if I blow a tweeter)
1) MartinLogan MLT2
2) Polk RM705
3) Klipsch HDT-600
4) Dayton Audio HTP-3 5.1 Home Theater Package 12" Powered Subwoofer
5) Others, like Energy, Boston, but <not> Bose

The MartinLogans are intriguing not just because they are currently quite a bargain. I started out assuming Daytons would be the cost-effect leader, but my pricing and read of the reviews suggest that may not be the case.

Thanks in advance if you have any experience with or opinion of these components. I hope to order as soon as possible, in that I have a return window on the Onkyo HTIB, and also grow weary of installing electronics (g).


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

cwsanfor said:


> I am considering replacing a new Onkyo HTIB HT-S9400THX, which performs well, because I think there may be a better value for relatively little more money. I had an earlier Onkyo HTIB which served me well, and feel they offer a good value.
> 
> However, I think the speakers are the weak point, and if I am getting other speakers, I have to consider another receiver as well. I'm about to have ChadB calibrate the Panasonic TC-65PS64 this AV system serves, and so I'd like to have a receiver that would benefit from or justify his audio services, such as Audyssey Pro. My current system is wired for 6.1 (a single rear speaker), but I am not averse to 7.2 or 9.2 with High Front speakers, although neither of those are worth a lot of money to me. I have 8 receiver/speaker scenarios with pricing information in a Google Sheet I could share, but will not post the link because I assume that would be like posting prices, and I'm not interested in annoying any Mods.
> 
> ...


none of those receivers will do you wrong. all good, just with some different features and extra power.

as for speakers. what's your budget? good speakers are the key, and many have wildly different price tags. how big is the room? can you provide a sketchup.. and the last one. people ALWAYS gloss over the subwoofer or just buy some cheap polk pre-packed sub. the sub is one of THE most important parts of your system and should be considered as such. for a sub I usually say take the cost of all your speakers, add in the cost of your receiver and that's about the budget you should be starting with for a sub.


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

Do you have budgets for receiver and speakers/subs?

The Onkyo NR818 is a popular choice in terms of features/value, and I believe it will do 9.1 with the addition of a 2-channel external amp if you decide to go that route. The NR929 offers good bang for the buck too, if you are interested in anything more than 7.1. Also look at the Denon AVR-X4000. It has a great set of features.

Depending on your speaker budget, you may want to look at something like the HTD level two. Otherwise the ML set is also a popular choice for its value and performance.

Edit: looks like Mike just beat me to the budget question.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Here is my personal thought, Keep the receiver that comes with the 9400 and spend all the money on your speakers/sub purchase. The receiver that comes with the 9400 is quite decent and has enough built in power that as long as you get speakers like the Klipsch you mentioned you would have more than enough juice.


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Gentlemen,

Thanks for your replies so far.

I don't have a budget per se, but I have good credit. I am looking at it from more of a cost-effect perspective on the speakers, and more of a features perspective on the receiver (e.g., I tend to think I need XT32, because I will run 2-4 subs). I assume I am not supposed to talk prices here, or link to current offers on commercial sites, but I probably can share a Google Doc with any of you by PM without getting banned, if you wish. I think I can say that there is a set of well respected 5.1 speakers name beginning with "L" that I can get for $244 the set delivered, and I would probably buy two, perhaps using the second center as the rear center 6.1, running both subs plus one of the ones I have, and keeping the extra speakers for future use (maybe High Fronts, if I get a receiver that will do that as well as rears). Or something like that, say perhaps just buy the one 5.1 system and the same sub. Suggestions are welcome. Some of the other speaker packages I am looking at run $250-300 per 5.1 set, so I guess you could say $600 is my starting budget for speakers.

The receiver budget, I started at about $300, discovered more about Dolby and THX with multiple subs, and I don't know that I have a budget there, although I'd say the price of the Onkyo TX-NR929 or equivalent is an upper limit. The 818 is at an attractive price refurb, and has most all the features I want, like 6+ HDMI in, MultEQ XT32, etc. I figure that by the time significant 9.x programming is available, I'll get a new receiver or wife. See note below.

7.1 or 7.2 is enough (I have meters and cal tones enough to equalize the subs, currently 3, and have someone coming to do a THX Pro calibration). 9.x would be future-proofing or gravy. I'm currently configured as 6.1 in an unfortunately shaped room, 14' x 15', with a little 2.5' x 4 alcove or something on the equipment side. The listening position is on the long wall, the equipment is on the other long wall, so I have a slightly rectangular room running the wrong way. The listening position (my bed) is nearly flush to the wall: there is a rear 6.1 speaker that if it fell, would land right between my wife and me. I'll try to draw a picture and upload it. Sadly, I can't rearrange the room, move walls, place much in the way of acoustic treatment, or paint it Munsell N5 Gray, that is to say PANTONE interior paint 17-4402 TPX Neutral Gray as I would like, because I have a wife who is barely tolerating all this and is known to watch an SD show when it is simulcast in HD because she's "only interested in the plot". I am sure you can relate.

Sorry about the long post, and thanks again.


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Here is my personal thought, Keep the receiver that comes with the 9400 and spend all the money on your speakers/sub purchase. The receiver that comes with the 9400 is quite decent and has enough built in power that as long as you get speakers like the Klipsch you mentioned you would have more than enough juice.


That's a notion that had not occurred to me, oddly enough. It would solve my single biggest headache, which is how to return the HTIB to A4L. The shipping to NC was $55, but they get a bulk rate, and my shipping costs would exceed the cost of the HTIB. So I was going to drive down to Mouse Town, where I have friends and so forth, but that is not my first preference right now. I could no doubt Ebay the Onkyo speakers, or whatever.

So you feel the Klipsch speakers (or MartinLogans, for that matter) would be sufficiently better sounding, enough to justify the loss on the Onkyo's, yes? One notion that <had> occurred to me was just keeping what I have, which sounds great to my untrained ear, and I guess your plan is a variant of that in a way.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well....Usually the weakest link in the HTIB system is the sub so you could even stick with the speakers that come with the Onkyo HTIB system as they are quite decent and get some really good subs?


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Well....Usually the weakest link in the HTIB system is the sub so you could even stick with the speakers that come with the Onkyo HTIB system as they are quite decent and get some really good subs?


Good idea also. What do you think of the notion of running the sub from my old Onkyo HTIB, the sub from my new HTIB, and a Dayton SUB-120 that I have here, which may be the best of the three. That's what I'm going to try this afternoon, having just received the wireless sub link. I'd put the new Onkyo sub and the Dayton flanking the AV center, and the old Onkyo on the opposite wall, or in a corner, or wherever, because it's wireless and I can put it anywhere. They may not be perfectly matched, but I can set the new Onkyo to THX reference, close-mike them with the RS SPL meter and eq them (roughly), run Audyssey 2, and groove until the calibrator gets here on the 11th (about three weeks). He can probably tie all this together, even in the absence of full ISF controls.

None of my equipment is Flagship, and I'm beginning to think I should try what I have before returning stuff. A HSU or whatever may well sound better, but you can't miss what you never had, and as long as I don't have an HSU around to A/B, I am not sure I'd be unhappy with what I have.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Its never a good idea to mix subs as this causes issues that you end up having to match the sound of the weakest sub in the room in order to even things out.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

I agree with Tony about mixing subs, it could be done but the results are usually very unacceptable at least to me. I would start with this Pioneer setup 5.0
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008NCD2S4/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER
This is a very good system to start with and a huge improvement over the HTIB, I own these speakers as do many on this site, they're just that good, stay away from the sub and use the Dayton for now and your receiver you have, save up for a decent sub, the PIO's deserve it.
The link has all the speakers for the 5.0 setup. just click on the center C22 and 's BS22s, the mains are on sale and the center, mains are $87 each, the center is $69 but the BS22 is not on sale but can be had for under $90, a little over $350, you can't go wrong and put the rest of your budget in the sub when you can or use the Dayton until you can get something better.
Cheers Jeff


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

yup, the Andrew Jones Pioneers are great entry level speakers.... give you extra budget to really go to town on the subs (something in the SVS PB-12 range...or if you're decent with woodworking a couple of the Dayton 18's in a ported box with an ep4000  )


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks so much for the advice. Pioneers it is, and I can probably Ebay the Onkyo speakers. Wish I had started out with a non-HTIB approach, but this has been a learning experience. 

This is a great board.


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

So I just ordered:

Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, q4
Pioneer SP-C22, q1
Pioneer SP-FS52, q2
Denon AVR-X4000
Panasonic VIERA TC-P65ST60
SVS Dual-PB12-NSD's, a pair

Little over my original budget :yikes:, and I've got a bunch of stuff to return, but I think this will meet my needs for a while. Fortunately, I found a way to ship the HTIB back to FL reasonably. Thanks very much for your guidance.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ya, I would say that is a wee bit over your original budget but great choices in deed :T


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

cwsanfor said:


> So I just ordered:
> 
> Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, q4
> Pioneer SP-C22, q1
> ...


Lol tad over budget but money well spent. Two svs monsters. Atta boy!


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

cwsanfor said:


> So I just ordered:
> 
> Pioneer SP-BS22-LR, q4
> Pioneer SP-C22, q1
> ...


That is quite the jump from your HTIB setup, very good choices indeed. These toys will keep you smiling for a while to come. I hope you know the value and quality of the Denon 4000, it has Audyssey XT32 plus SUBEQ HT, top of the line room correction software and can EQ both of your subs as the sub outs are independant of each other, in other words it is not the same signal from both outputs and can EQ both subs as one, great feature set on the 4000, I just bought the Panasonic TC-P65ST60, CNET's only five star rated TV ever. Congrats and good luck, I wasn't expecting such an upgrade from the HTIB :T:yikes:
Cheers Jeff


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks for the advice and the confirmation, gents. I have so far negative buyer's remorse, and think I did well to go ahead and invest. I'm a target shooter by avocation, and I learned a long time ago that if you scrimp on one, say, oh, it's good enough, you <always> spend time wondering "Should I have got the better one?", and then you sell for a loss, and spend more overall. I think this set will do me a while.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

cwsanfor said:


> Thanks for the advice and the confirmation, gents. I have so far negative buyer's remorse, and think I did well to go ahead and invest. I'm a target shooter by avocation, and I learned a long time ago that if you scrimp on one, say, oh, it's good enough, you <always> spend time wondering "Should I have got the better one?", and then you sell for a loss, and spend more overall. I think this set will do me a while.


Yes this rig will do you for a while, then you'll get the loudspeaker upgraditis bug, the positive of this is you didn't break the bank with your 5.0 speakers, also at the same time I think you would need to spend considerably more $ to better the PIO setup, so enjoy my friend and let us know what you think, if you have any setup questions, don't hesitate to ask, we're here for you :T
Cheers Jeff


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Got the Pioneers in today, lovely looking speakers. One issue, and I suppose when the ad said "bookshelf" I read that as "can hang from ceiling", as my current surrounds do. However, my current Onkyo surrounds (1) don't weigh much, (2) have hangers on the back, and neither is true of the Pioneer surrounds.

Well, I have known my speaker placement was not optimal, but I am still hoping to have the hardware all installed before Chad comes to do the Audyssey Pro calibration. I guess I need to do some fast reading on 7.2 speaker placement and write off going to work for a few days.

I can Google THX and Dolby's speaker location information, but could any of you Pioneer speaker owners tell me how and where you mounted your surrounds? Fast responses will gain you a star in your crown. My situation is a bit complicated because this is a 1930's house with plaster walls and ceilings, and studs back then were placed irregularly, like the length of the carpenter's hammer, or at random, and there are often mysterious horizontal pieces, and the wood is all heart pine or something with a Mohs hardness of about 9. I'll be hiring a handyman, but have to tell him where I want them, and probably need Plan A and B in case we hit bedrock or something behind the walls.

Thanks.


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

cwsanfor said:


> Got the Pioneers in today, lovely looking speakers. One issue, and I suppose when the ad said "bookshelf" I read that as "can hang from ceiling", as my current surrounds do. However, my current Onkyo surrounds (1) don't weigh much, (2) have hangers on the back, and neither is true of the Pioneer surrounds.
> 
> Well, I have known my speaker placement was not optimal, but I am still hoping to have the hardware all installed before Chad comes to do the Audyssey Pro calibration. I guess I need to do some fast reading on 7.2 speaker placement and write off going to work for a few days.
> 
> ...


bookshelf just literally means it's not a floorstanding speaker like the mains you have. for hanging them instead of putting them on a shelf or stands you need a speaker mounting kit.


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Mike Edwards said:


> bookshelf just literally means it's not a floorstanding speaker like the mains you have. for hanging them instead of putting them on a shelf or stands you need a speaker mounting kit.


True. I was having a little mini-panic moment there. 

The side surrounds are not a problem. I am going to see what is available to suspend the rears, or even see if there is a way to use my existing Sanus ceiling mounts, which are rated at 10 lb. The speakers are about 8 lb, although I am cognizant the the middle location is right over our heads (actually between us) when we sleep. There are three mounts on the rear wall (I'm going to try to attach a picture), so I could go perhaps for a THX or Dolby/DTS spacing. I am leaning towards the latter, leaving the middle rear mount idle or removed.

Thanks for any suggestions about shelves or preferably, wire/chain/mount solutions for suspending an 8 lb speaker. If I found a way to attach the existing mounts to the speakers without drilling, I think that would be ideal.


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

cwsanfor said:


> True. I was having a little mini-panic moment there.
> 
> The side surrounds are not a problem. I am going to see what is available to suspend the rears, or even see if there is a way to use my existing Sanus ceiling mounts, which are rated at 10 lb. The speakers are about 8 lb, although I am cognizant the the middle location is right over our heads (actually between us) when we sleep. There are three mounts on the rear wall (I'm going to try to attach a picture), so I could go perhaps for a THX or Dolby/DTS spacing. I am leaning towards the latter, leaving the middle rear mount idle or removed.
> 
> Thanks for any suggestions about shelves or preferably, wire/chain/mount solutions for suspending an 8 lb speaker. If I found a way to attach the existing mounts to the speakers without drilling, I think that would be ideal.


Here are some suggestions, look for the side clamping models so you don't have to drill into speaker cabs, shouldn't have any problems with the weight of the BS22s, check out Amazon, newegg etc.
http://www.pinpointmounts.com/Speaker-Mounts?gclid=CNbywbPbnbkCFZCe4AodWSEALA#./Speaker-Mounts


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

needspeed52 said:


> Here are some suggestions, look for the side clamping models so you don't have to drill into speaker cabs, shouldn't have any problems with the weight of the BS22s, check out Amazon, newegg etc.
> http://www.pinpointmounts.com/Speaker-Mounts?gclid=CNbywbPbnbkCFZCe4AodWSEALA#./Speaker-Mounts


Thanks, Bundini, Pinpoints are in the mail.

Ran into unexpectedly fierce negative WAF on the SVS PB-12's, must go to smaller SVS's in order to remain married. Thread on that in the SVS forum, but comments on relative benefits of dual SB-1000, SB12-NSD, and PB-1000 welcome here also.


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

cwsanfor said:


> Thanks, Bundini, Pinpoints are in the mail.
> 
> Ran into unexpectedly fierce negative WAF on the SVS PB-12's, must go to smaller SVS's in order to remain married. Thread on that in the SVS forum, but comments on relative benefits of dual SB-1000, SB12-NSD, and PB-1000 welcome here also.


bummer on the WAF factor.... I always thought the PB-12's were kinda small too :blush:


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Mike Edwards said:


> bummer on the WAF factor.... I always thought the PB-12's were kinda small too :blush:


Spoken by, my guess is, a bachelor with 15" THTs? :hissyfit:


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

cwsanfor said:


> Spoken by, my guess is, a bachelor with 15" THTs? :hissyfit:


Lol. Happily married for ten years to a woman who thinks two tht's isn't enough bass.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For subs have you considered 2 of the SVS PC12 nsd the kids can use the walls of the cylinders to put their art on display (at least thats what you can tell your wife)


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## Mike Edwards (Mar 10, 2011)

good idea Tony. those cylinders def take up less floor space. I had one back in the day an the space savings was awesome... especially when you're cramped on space when I had 2 of them in my old apt. didn't take up NEARLY the amount of space or LOOK as bad as a boxy ported box


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

I can hear his wife now, "what are those black water heaters doing in my house"


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## needspeed52 (Aug 2, 2008)

cwsanfor said:


> Thanks, Bundini, Pinpoints are in the mail.
> 
> Ran into unexpectedly fierce negative WAF on the SVS PB-12's, must go to smaller SVS's in order to remain married. Thread on that in the SVS forum, but comments on relative benefits of dual SB-1000, SB12-NSD, and PB-1000 welcome here also.


So what's up, did you decide on a sub(s), just go with one of these and call it a day.



http://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/power-x/products/xv15

You'll like the pinpoints, you might need some extra inexpensive hardware to make the side clamps more secure and keep the tilt angles in place, using the existing hardware should be adequate for the BS22s though, good product otherwise. Let us know what's up with the sub(s)


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

needspeed52 said:


> So what's up, did you decide on a sub(s), just go with one of these and call it a day... Let us know what's up with the sub(s)


Got the PB12's installed about midnight last night, ran a couple of Audyssey calibrations (have the Denon AVR-X400's and the Pioneer fronts installed, but not yet the rears), and the wife is sitting here watching Monsters Inc in 3-D, first laughing I've heard from her in a while. Catching her in a good mood, I asked "Isn't it odd how much smaller the subs look installed as opposed to sitting in the middle of my office?", and she said, "yes". Later I asked if she would perhaps just keep an open mind on them, being only a couple inches larger, and saving me the hassle of shipping. She said she'd think about it, which is a huge change from two days ago, so I'm guardedly optimistic that after a few days they will "shrink" as she gets used to them. I mean when you get down to it, they look like small (noisy) endtables, which is how I'm using one. I put a dozen roses on one to soften up the look. Been washing the dishes, cleaning up all the cables and junk from the install, impersonating a Good Husband. Actually, <I am>, I'm really only doing this for her AV enjoyment, but she's not aware of that fact, hers being a latent demand .

I absolutely love the speakers, and with this Audyssey XT32 calibration calibrating them separately, they sound beyond fabulous. I was beginning to think they were a bit much for this size room, but they are not at all. Audyssey made me back them down to about 45/100, and I ended up +/- 3dB on all of the speakers.

Somebody mentioned the cylindrical SVS's. I though hard about them. They closely resemble the scratching post we can barely get our ill-behaved cats to use, but I bet they'd use the SVS's. As far as the speakers you mentioned, I'm sure they are great, but I like the way SVS does business, I'm really tired, and I'll stick with what I have or one size down, I think. I hear that piano black adds to WAF, but mine seems oblivious.

I am looking at the Pinpoints, which I got mainly to avoid having to put a wood screw in these lovely Pioneers rears. Everything else is floor standing or on a pedastel. I have about decided that I'll use my exsisting ceiling mounts, which are plenty strong, because no one but me will ever see the screw(s), and I plan to have this set quite a while. If anyone has an objection, now's the time, because tomorrow looks like boxing this HTIB (I really dread that), and hanging the three rear speakers. Kind of want to make it four and add a couple of high fronts, but now is definitely not the time to do that. They may appear when she's on a business trip in a few months, and I'll swear they've always been there ...


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

I'm pleased and surprised that anyone still cares about this install but me. This would not typically have been the case at the similar forum I frequented, and this forum is my new AV Home.

I started a related separate thread on what should be my last task in this project, mounting the rears, and take the liberty of posting it below:

"I'm going to mount three Andrew Jones Pioneers surrounds (9# each, SP-BS22-LR). I was going to abandon my existing ceiling mounts (similar to Sanus Italia or Peerless Paramounts, so as to avoid putting a wood screw in the speakers.

I ordered and received both Pinpoint AM-40's side-clamping mounts, which would certainly work, and look nice, and a pair of glass shelves from Monoprice, which would not allow downward tilting.

I have since decided that I'd like to retain use of my current mounts, because I like them, worrying about a wood screw or two is silly, I'd end up with these unused mounts in the ceiling, this is a plaster wall 1930's house and I dread mounting anything, etc. I plan to use a safety wire since I am at the upper weight rating of the mounts, but they were solidly mounted to joists by my handyman, and I think you could do chinups on them (I had the center rear fall once right between my wife and I on the bed, and this was Not Good. The fall was not due to a mount failure, but my failure to adequately tighten the allen screw that clamps the female end of the mount to the male bracket tube thingie on the speaker). I do not want to rob the old speakers of the bracket, because I have them sold, and see note below about me being a mechanical idiot.

So my silly little questions (which I've Googled) are these:

1) The current mounts attach to a standard bracket, which came with the old speakers. Where can I find these brackets alone? I've searched several sites, but apparently not using the correct key word. As far as fashioning something DIY, assume that I am an idiot without tools, motivation, skills or time.

2) About putting wood screws in the speakers: I can handle this. Any suggestions as to length or type of screw, or an alternative method? I would and may ask Pioneer, but I'm pretty sure their reply would be outside my time window (I have several firm equipment return dates, and a wife who has expressed a preference that this project be concluded real soon now), and be something like "If we wanted this wall-mounted we would have shipped it that way and you will void your warranty and die".

Thanks in advance."

Read more: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...l-ceiling-speaker-mounting.html#ixzz2djhd05iY


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Upon reflection, the existing mounts are Monoprice, rated at 10lb, more than the speaker's 9lb, but I still plan a safety wire. Tanks for reading this.


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Ended up with:
Pioneer Andrew Jones speakers (center, surrounds, and front wides)
Cambridge Soundworks Dipole rear center surround
SVS PB12-NSD dual subs
Denon AVR-X4000
Denon POA-800's (for front wides)
Panasonic 65VT60
THX Pro and ISF calibration by ChadB, which was excellent

I'm <very> happy with the system, it's maybe the best money I've ever spent.

Thanks for the advice/opinions/experience.


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## cwsanfor (Aug 8, 2013)

Oh, and I went with the PinPoint mounts, thank God, because the old mounts turn out to have been screwed into plaster only, not wood, to my real dismay. That's been dangerous for years, even with the lighter old speakers. The PinPoints are solidly into wood, you could definitely do pullups on them.


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