# Pioneer receivers



## bcoppula (Jul 1, 2013)

I'm am new to this so forgive me but could someone tell me which pioneer model is better the sc-1222k or the pioneer elite vsx-43? The use will be primarily home theater. Thanks.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

While it is safe to say the SC-1222-K is better than the VSX-43 it would help to have more information before recommending it over the VSX-43.
Just because it is better does not necessarily mean it will sound better.
It makes no sense to have a $1k AVR and $300 speakers, but it does make sense to have a $300 AVR and $1k speakers.
How big is your room?
Do you already have speakers? If yes what are they?
What is your budget and what do you want to buy with it?


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## bcoppula (Jul 1, 2013)

chashint said:


> While it is safe to say the SC-1222-K is better than the VSX-43 it would help to have more information before recommending it over the VSX-43.
> Just because it is better does not necessarily mean it will sound better.
> It makes no sense to have a $1k AVR and $300 speakers, but it does make sense to have a $300 AVR and $1k speakers.
> How big is your room?
> ...


Room is roughly 20x20
I do not have speakers but the owner of the local home theater store is recommending paradigms cs-lcr and cs-60r. 
I would like to stay under $1000 on the avr and under $2000 on speakers (total). Currently he wants to sell me the pioneer vsx-43 for $500 and the five speakers for about $1000.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Hard to find prices on Paradigm products but I did find Gibbys electronics supermarket ...
The deal you are being offered seems reasonable.
You will also need a subwoofer, I would go with an internet direct company.
Hsu, Outlaw, and SVS are well established and reputable.
The Hsu VTF2 is a very nice unit for about $600 to the door.
Good luck.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I would not buy a receiver from a store as you will pay far too much. Buy this Onkyo 809 from here and you will have a much better receiver for much less.


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## randyc1 (Jul 20, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> I would not buy a receiver from a store as you will pay far too much. Buy this Onkyo 809 from here and you will have a much better receiver for much less.


Can you explain why it is much better than a Pioneer SC 1222 ?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The 809 uses the HQV Vida processor and independent ISF calibration for each source, It also has Audyssey MultEQ XT (Much better than Pioneers MCACC) And having THX certification gives you some very useful processing modes that you dont get with non certified receivers.


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## Almadacr (May 5, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> The 809 uses the HQV Vida processor and independent ISF calibration for each source, It also has Audyssey MultEQ XT (Much better than Pioneers MCACC) And having THX certification gives you some very useful processing modes that you dont get with non certified receivers.


Much better than the MCACC it's more of a personal taste not a reality ( wile the XT32 has the advantage on sub eq )


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

MCACC does not EQ below 63Hz. Multi EQ XT EQs all the way down to 20Hz


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## Almadacr (May 5, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> MCACC does not EQ below 63Hz. Multi EQ XT EQs all the way down to 20Hz


Again personal choices , the rule of the thumb is setting all front stage at 80hz , yes you can chose what ever you want but follows under what you like and what sounds best for you . Reality you can not manage manually Audyssey after it's done ... with MCACC yes . Like i said the XT32 there's a big difference and it's a ease of mind using Multi sub EQ but with MCACC i can manually EQ to my like .


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Almadacr said:


> the rule of the thumb is setting all front stage at 80hz


But you cant eq the sub using MCACC at all. Its the biggest complaint many people who have Pioneer receivers have. I think your confused as to what Sub EQ does, with Audyssey Sub EQ will EQ two subs independently.


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## Almadacr (May 5, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> But you cant eq the sub using MCACC at all. Its the biggest complaint many people who have Pioneer receivers have. I think your confused as to what Sub EQ does, with Audyssey Sub EQ will EQ two subs independently.


I know what sub EQ can do since i have the Onkyo 818 and i also have a Pioneer receiver so i can compare both one against each other and a receiver it's not only about delivering to a sub and if i'm not happy i can still use .... REW or it's not good enough ???


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## randyc1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Have any of you seen the video interview on AVS forum about " The science of the Room with Paul Hales "

They talk about room correction like Audysey and MCCAC and how it is NOT a good idea to use EQ above 250hz at all !!

I use a Anti Mode to correct up to 250 hz 

Maybe there a reason why Anti -mode also chose not to correct over 250 hz ??


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

randyc1 said:


> Have any of you seen the video interview on AVS forum about " The science of the Room with Paul Hales "
> 
> They talk about room correction like Audysey and MCCAC and how it is NOT a good idea to use EQ above 250hz at all !!
> 
> ...


Sigh, You make it sound like he wrote the bible on EQ? I cat tell you he is not correct.


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## randyc1 (Jul 20, 2011)

Lol ,... He talks about people Like Floyd E Toole And Geddes ,... Ever here of them ???

....they Probably know a thing or two more than you about the science of Audio... u think ???


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

As far as the various auto cal firm wares it is personal preference, each has its pluses and minuses.
When it comes to sub EQ sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't .
If there is a big null and the auto cal puts 12+ dB of boost to try to fix it, then that can cause the sub to be overdriven with little effect on the null since it is caused by room modes.
With the Pioneer you can look at the EQ and adjust it if something is completely out of whack.

I own Pioneer and I am really happy with it, I also realize it is OK for others to prefer another brand.


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## hyghwayman (Jan 15, 2008)

chashint said:


> I own Pioneer and I am really happy with it, I also realize it is OK for others to prefer another brand.


Good post chashint, +1 :T


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## OZZIERP (Feb 19, 2012)

Almadacr said:


> Again personal choices , the rule of the thumb is setting all front stage at 80hz , yes you can chose what ever you want but follows under what you like and what sounds best for you . Reality you can not manage manually Audyssey after it's done ... with MCACC yes . Like i said the XT32 there's a big difference and it's a ease of mind using Multi sub EQ but with MCACC i can manually EQ to my like .


I agree and judging from post all over not everyone is happy with Audyssey's results nothing beats proper speaker placement and room treatments IMO.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

It's a leap to call any flagship room correction software superior to another. It really does come down to personal preference.

EQ-ing a sub can make a huge difference in perceived performance, but (as pointed out) you don't want any EQ boosting nulls. So be careful when unleashing an auto correction.

I've gotten fantastic results from MCACC... And use a BFD to manage the subs. I found the learning curve with MCACC to be steep but rewarding! I can understand how having an on board Sub-EQ is an appealing factor (especially for someone that just wants a plug and play experience). At the end of the day, it's important to remember that both Onkyo and Pioneer products are great... Integra and Elite products are phenomenal... and they are more so the higher into their model ranks you go. Read some professional reviews and demo if possible.


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