# Rookie mistake



## droidism (Feb 17, 2013)

Unfortunately my first post on this forum is regarding a HUGE rookie mistake that quite frankly has me sick to my stomach. To make a very long story short, I am in the process of building a house and have a dedicated 20x13 space in the basement for a home theater. The builder and I worked diligently on designing the perfect space to include riser, A/V rack, lighting in ceiling, sconces on wall, small two step stage below where screen will be, etc. I provided the wire to the electrician and he VERY NEATLY ran 7 speaker pairs plus 1 sub speaker pair (7.1). Since the speaker wires were run through the studs as opposed to a conduit, the builder filled all the holes with foam to prevent draft through the walls. Like I said, a very neat install! 

After the dry wall was installed, mudded, and taped (last week), it dawned on me that I provided the electrician with 18 gauge speaker wire!!!!! :yikes: Honestly guys I could kick myself!!! :doh::hissyfit::boxer:
Pulling the wires out is impossible and I could pay the builder to rip the drywall back out but I don't want to if I don't necessarily have to. I'd rather spend that money on equipment I have yet to buy.

Since making such an idiotic mistake, I have read everything I could get my hands on and understand it all quite well. I understand resistance, impedance, nominal, ohms yadda yadda yadda! 

What I don't understand is the following:



 How much of a problem is the 18 gauge wire?


 Am I susceptible to blow the receiver, speakers, both, or set the house ablaze?


 Since I am not an audiophile, can I scale down the equipment to compensate for the higher gauge wire? However, HTIB no thanks...and no offense to anyone. I had planned to get the Onkyo TX-NR525 or TX-NR626??


 Any speaker advice?


 Is it worth even "trying the wire" before resorting to drastic measures?

Thanks in advance for your help and don't hold back! What would you do if running new wire is the LAST resort?

I plan to post on other HomeTheater boards to maximize responses.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

How long are your speaker wire runs? The longer they are the more important the gauge is.


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## droidism (Feb 17, 2013)

The two longest is probably 28ft


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## theJman (Mar 3, 2012)

You'll be fine. 18 gauge isn't ideal, but unless you're a 'golden ear' and plan on spending at least 50K on equipment I don't think you have anything to be concerned with. Surely nothing is going to get blown up or spontaneously combust.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

droidism said:


> The two longest is probably 28ft


I searched and found this for you... (I copied this from the audioholics forum and pasted it so I won't violate any Forum link rules... Hopefully this doesn't violate any either).

"I'll address your specific question, but first let's hit some basics for others reading this question. The general idea is that you should always try to stick with a good gauge of wire - typically 16 gauge or higher is best. Now when we say "higher" realize that we really mean "lower". Er, let me explain...

Speaker cable gauge is short for American Wire Gauge, or AWG. This is a expressed in numbers that get smaller as the wire gets thicker. So, smaller numbers mean a larger thickness of wire, and larger numbers mean a smaller thickness of wire. Most bulk speaker cable is between 16 and 12 gauge (AWG). 

Your particular question seems to center around consistency, but at it's heart there is an underlying question of what happens to the audio as it travels through these cables? Consistency only comes into play once you exceed a particular distance. We could do the math, but let's just give you some basic, conservative guidelines to follow instead:

Less than 30 feet: 16 gauge
30 - 50 feet: 14 gauge
50 - 100 feet: 12 gauge
100+ feet: 10 gauge (or us 14/4 cable which works out to 11 gauge)
Audioholic: 10-12 gauge, regardless of distance
I tend to run 10-12 gauge everywhere just for fun since in the scheme of things it doesn't seem to cost all that much more. If, however, you are wiring up a whole house I see no reason to spend the extra money if your longest distances from the amplifier to the speakers are less than 100 feet. Stick with 12- or 14-gauge unless you're really concerned with eeking out the absolute best performance.

What happens when you exceed these distances? Power loss and reduced damping factor to the speaker (the ratio of the rated speaker impedance to the output impedance of the amplifier) occurs over the distance of the cable. This means reduced sound quality. To put it bluntly, a thinner gauge wire over an extended length will introduce its own significant amount of impedance (50 feet of 24 AWG wire calculates to be 2.62 ohms, for example). When you're dealing with an 8-ohm speaker, thats roughly 2.5dB of insertion loss! You can see how this added impedance can dramatically affect the sound.

If you're in a typical theater room you'd have to have a very thin gauge of speaker wire for your surrounds (like 20-gauge) before you were able to tell the difference audibly in most cases - and even then you'd have to listen critically and compare the same source to the fronts. Add to this the fact that most people have different speakers for surrounds than they do for the fronts... Add to that room acoustics... Add to that the expected amount of use the surrounds get and the differing program material they receive than the fronts... and it becomes even more of a non-critical issue.

In your example I would doubt very much that there would be any audible difference between 18- and 16-gauge unless your surrounds utilized cable lengths of more than 30-40 feet. There would most certainly be a measurable difference - but that's not always as important."


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

droidism said:


> The two longest is probably 28ft


It's not that dramatic! Lol it may affect the sound slightly but u won't burn your house down, your receiver,so on an so forth. Ya u could have used 14 gauge but u have what you have now. You can always opt to run different wires under your base boards if your not satisfied, but get what you wanted, set everything up and see what u think. It may be perfectly fine there's only one way to find out...


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I suspect you will never notice a difference and you will be fine.


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## droidism (Feb 17, 2013)

I can't thank you all enough! This is a huge relief. To be on the safe side should I stick to a certain spec receiver and speakers?


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

droidism said:


> I can't thank you all enough! This is a huge relief. To be on the safe side should I stick to a certain spec receiver and speakers?


No! Lol, get what u wanted, your onkoyo receiver, what ever speakers you wanted and roll with it. You don't have to worry about anything, your good to go. Now enjoy and relax, but make sure u share pics and opinions on your new room once it is completed.


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## droidism (Feb 17, 2013)

pddufrene said:


> No! Lol, get what u wanted, your onkoyo receiver, what ever speakers you wanted and roll with it. You don't have to worry about anything, your good to go. Now enjoy and relax, but make sure u share pics and opinions on your new room once it is completed.


I really do appreciate your laid back attitude at a time when I am a wreck!!! :hissyfit: You must be a Zen Master cause I do feel less like a rookie for the oversight on speaker wire. Nevertheless, I am going to do as you and others suggest...relax, and get everything per plan and hope for the best. I have lots of pics to share and will create a separate thread tomorrow to capture the build.


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

droidism said:


> I really do appreciate your laid back attitude at a time when I am a wreck!!! :hissyfit: You must be a Zen Master cause I do feel less like a rookie for the oversight on speaker wire. Nevertheless, I am going to do as you and others suggest...relax, and get everything per plan and hope for the best. I have lots of pics to share and will create a separate thread tomorrow to capture the build.


That's what this hobby is all about. Relaxing and enjoying what you work hard for to get. I look forward to seeing your progress, and remember: Just Breath! Lol
We've all done stuff that is questionable and regrettable at times and it will happen. You just need to roll with the punches and move on. It could have been worse, u could have not put any wires up. Just throwing that out there


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## droidism (Feb 17, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> I searched and found this for you... (I copied this from the audioholics forum and pasted it so I won't violate any Forum link rules... Hopefully this doesn't violate any either).
> 
> "I'll address your specific question, but first let's hit some basics for others reading this question. The general idea is that you should always try to stick with a good gauge of wire - typically 16 gauge or higher is best. Now when we say "higher" realize that we really mean "lower". Er, let me explain...
> 
> ...


While doing research over the past week I read countless comments from others who consider 18 gauge wire to be a cardinal sin for any home theater..... some wouldn't even use it with a HTiB setup!!! Based on comments such as these, I assumed I would never reach a decent sound quality level with my current speaker wire. Your and other's comments really help put it all back into perspective. This supposed to be fun right?


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## pddufrene (Mar 14, 2013)

It's definitely suppose to be fun, u need to understand that most people are extra meticulous about there setups. Some stuff is preferred, but not really necessary. There are many steps people take to get the best they can possibly get and don't skimp on anything in striving for perfection. But to most its all about the experience, experimenting, and learning what works and what doesn't. But ultimately it boils down to your personal preferences, and what you like, hear, and see. That's what is important, and enjoying the process regardless of what is thrown your way. You got this!


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Hopefully you gave him in wall rated wiring, just didn't see that anywhere.


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