# TXU Power Co Stinks- Help!



## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

Yesterday, I was watching tv and a fuse blew up the power line. My power dropped, but hung in for about 20seconds then went out and came back on in about a minute. I fired up my gear after the incident, to find out I wasn't getting video signal from any of my sources. I plugged them directly to tv (HDMI) and everything was fine. My Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro was passing an audio signal just fine, but no video. I went thru all the settings and diagnostics, short of taking apart the Integra receiver. Any advice? Please HELP!!!


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

waculjr.903 said:


> Yesterday, I was watching tv and a fuse blew up the power line. My power dropped, but hung in for about 20seconds then went out and came back on in about a minute. I fired up my gear after the incident, to find out I wasn't getting video signal from any of my sources. I plugged them directly to tv (HDMI) and everything was fine. My Integra DTC-9.8 pre-pro was passing an audio signal just fine, but no video. I went thru all the settings and diagnostics, short of taking apart the Integra receiver. Any advice? Please HELP!!!


Probably should call Integra or your Integra dealer. I wouldn't necessarily mention your power hit, just the fact that there's no video. There should be a factory-reset sequence to try, which might fix it, but probably not. More likely you're going to need it serviced.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

I did the reset. HDMI output from receiver to tv is showing pink and green lines that are .5 inches and horizontal. What is this? HDMI board toast? No movement with satalite source playing, but do have sound. Can I take a HDMI splitter and have one going to my receiver for audio, and the other direct into my tv for video? Will this work? I don't use video processing from Integra anyway.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

On another note, what power protection device would protect a low voltage situation? Something like APC s-15,s-20. Something with battery backup?


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

waculjr.903 said:


> I did the reset. HDMI output from receiver to tv is showing pink and green lines that are .5 inches and horizontal. What is this? HDMI board toast? No movement with satalite source playing, but do have sound. Can I take a HDMI splitter and have one going to my receiver for audio, and the other direct into my tv for video? Will this work? I don't use video processing from Integra anyway.


Sounds a bit like the Integra's HDMI is toasted, but you should check with Integra.

Splitter could work, a bit of a pain to use it that way though.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

waculjr.903 said:


> On another note, what power protection device would protect a low voltage situation? Something like APC s-15,s-20. Something with battery backup?


If by a "low voltage situation" you're referring to wired phone, DSL, Cable TV, etc, those need to be run through a protection device as they enter the building, and that protection device must have a good ground connection. Many of the consumer power strips have phone and cable surge protectors in them, but they're usually located too far from a really good ground to offer the best protection. 

Go to Amazon and search "cable surge protector", "phone surge protector", etc. If it doesn't have a ground connection, don't bother.

A ground point is usually a rod driven into the earth at the entry point of power or low voltage services. These rods degrade over time, you might want a fresh one. The ultimate answer is to have it tested by an electrician. You'll have some searching to do, though, as most electricians don't have the equipment to do it. National Electrical Code specifies 25 ohms or less, though that's a maximum, and you really want down around 5 ohms. You need special equipment for the test, an ohm meter won't work.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

I understand all the proper grounding. I wired up two isolated ground circuits that have 10ga. Wire with a ground. 20Amp circuit breakers, and yes they are dedicated to only Home Theater equipment. I done the work my self with the ground rod ohming out properly on my multimeter. It is the situation that caused this problem, that I want to resolve, like never happen again! That is why I am thinking about something with battery backup and voltage regulation. So if the power is on, but weak- it will not damage my equipment again! A cheap surge protector/power conditioner, just don't cut it in this senario.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

I have a M. Power HTS 3500 in my system when this happened, HDMI board fried anyway , so no surge protector/power conditioner is going to help in a situation like this. Needless to say the monster power conditioner is going in the trash can for a new home!


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

P.s.- I said low voltage situation- not low voltage products. I was not referring to any sat/DSL /phone connection, I am referring to 110volt power receptacle.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

I and the person across the street are on the same power line. My power dimmed my lights to 50% for 30 seconds-then my power quit, to come back on in 30 seconds later. The guy across the streets power never came back on after the transformer fuse on the pole blew. This is what low voltage situation I am talking about.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Ah, ok, that's different.

Multimeters don't work for ground resistance testing. Here's the link.

Voltage sags don't damage electronics like they would induction motors. Yes, any UPS will take care of that for you, but it's the surges and spikes that kill stuff, and those often follow a sag. 

Just because it's a battery backup/UPS doesn't mean it has adequate surge protection. That's a separate function. Only occasionally is surge protection addressed on the basic level by a UPS. 

I can't speak firsts hand on the HTS3500, I don't install or recommend Monster products. I do recommend and install Panamax. Unfortunately both advertise performance improvements from their devices, but at least Panamax doesn't try to sell $100 EIA power cords. Anyway, the 3500 has been out of production for quite some time, are you sure it's working? I don't see any mention of under-voltage protection.

The current line of Panamax units include under-voltage protection, basically they disconnect all the gear from the line if voltage drops too low, which also blocks any surges that might occur when voltage goes back up. It works a little faster than some UPSs. 

Regardless of what protection you have, electronics are fragile, and in particular HDMI gear. In the last few years all the surge-damage my clients have called me about have been HDMI related, all were at least plugged into a local surge protector. There are simply no guarantees. 

The best you can do is protection at the breaker box/point of entry, then local protection like your M.Power, UPS if you want, but don't depend on a UPS for voltage protection. Voltage regulators are expensive, usually unnecessary for AV gear because everything already has voltage regulation inside, unless you're line regularly swings around 10-15%. They are also not surge/sag protectors...again, it's a different function and purpose.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

It has switched outlets etc. I can cut off and on the power with the button, lights and everything looks like it works like it should, monitors voltage on gauge on front like usual. I got it as an open box / display model. It has stage three purification and whatnot . I guess maybe Onkyo/Integra HDMI boards just are not very reliable. Maybe it is time to buy a Marantz instead! My Onkyo 806 had a bad HDMI board, now this Integra does too? Last time I buy any of thier stuff again. It's not worth the risk again.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Completely understand your frustration. Been there.

While I agree the Onkyo/Integra stuff isn't quite of the build quality of D/M, in fairness, I should tell you that the service calls I've had have been Denon and ancillary HDMI gear, since I don't typically install Onkyo/Integra unless it's specifically demanded.

HDMI in general is fragile, unreliable, failure prone, badly engineered...oh, I could go on ad-nauseum, but there's no point because we're stuck with it. Anything with an HDMI chip in it is vulnerable.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

waculjr.903 said:


> I and the person across the street are on the same power line. My power dimmed my lights to 50% for 30 seconds-then my power quit, to come back on in 30 seconds later. The guy across the streets power never came back on after the transformer fuse on the pole blew. This is what low voltage situation I am talking about.


It was a surge that got you. When this kind of thing happens, the low voltage condition causes an unusually heavy current load on transformers because all of the air conditioner compressors that stall under that condition. When the voltage comes back up, many of them are in locked-rotor condition, which they will protect themselves from, but only after a really big current draw. When that happens and a transformer blows, you'll get a huge inductive spike thrown back into whatever is connected...that's you, and the rest of the line you're on. That spike does the damage to electronics, the brownout can kill motors and compressors.

A UPS might have saved you because you'd be off the line during the brown-out, and wouldn't be back on line until it stabilized. A Panamax would have also saved you because it disconnects gear during a brown-out, and doesn't reconnect it right away when the voltage is back up.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

I can somewhat make a realization for the 806 to have an issue/ because of internal amplification puts off heat byproduct. On the other hand, and why I purchased the Integra- it is the pre/pro unit. No amplification inside, only processors. So now I have the conclusion, that they are unstable period. I just hate to have any issues with a $2000 unit. I am skittish about spending $300 to have it fixed, just to be back at square one again. That is why I'm thinking of using the Integra for strictly audio, with one HDMI cord to run the bitstream audio. Then using a splitter for HDMI, use another cord to plug directly to the monitor(TV). That way I'm bypassing the bad section of the HDMI. I just wonder why always the video is affected , not audio?


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

gazoink said:


> It was a surge that got you. When this kind of thing happens, the low voltage condition causes an unusually heavy current load on transformers because all of the air conditioner compressors that stall under that condition. When the voltage comes back up, many of them are in locked-rotor condition, which they will protect themselves from, but only after a really big current draw. When that happens and a transformer blows, you'll get a huge inductive spike thrown back into whatever is connected...that's you, and the rest of the line you're on. That spike does the damage to electronics, the brownout can kill motors and compressors. A UPS might have saved you because you'd be off the line during the brown-out, and wouldn't be back on line until it stabilized. A Panamax would have also saved you because it disconnects gear during a brown-out, and doesn't reconnect it right away when the voltage is back up.


. That is what I was wondering, if the UPS units would cover this situation. Supposedly the m.power 3500 is supposed to disconnect also, but did not in this case. They talk all this stuff about $750,000 connected equipment warranty. I found out first hand that is a bunch of u-know-what!!!! "We only warranty our product, for five years". Well as you can guess, I was six months past! Corporate @$&(?!!!!!! And people wonder why I have a bad disposition sometimes!! Lol! Yes it has been long enough that I can chuckle about it(what else am I to do?).


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

waculjr.903 said:


> I can somewhat make a realization for the 806 to have an issue/ because of internal amplification puts off heat byproduct. On the other hand, and why I purchased the Integra- it is the pre/pro unit. No amplification inside, only processors. So now I have the conclusion, that they are unstable period. I just hate to have any issues with a $2000 unit. I am skittish about spending $300 to have it fixed, just to be back at square one again. That is why I'm thinking of using the Integra for strictly audio, with one HDMI cord to run the bitstream audio. Then using a splitter for HDMI, use another cord to plug directly to the monitor(TV). That way I'm bypassing the bad section of the HDMI. I just wonder why always the video is affected , not audio?


Could be it's not specifically an HDMI issue, but something in the video circuits inside the Integra. There's a lot going on in there. Still suggesting a support call to Integra.

If it's a $300 repair, it still might be better to do that than junk the thing. Once repaired, you can sell/trade in on something else.


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

I have my video set to pass-thru, would it still have an affect by the video processors?


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Battery back up is about all you can count on for prolonged events. We know "brown outs" are hard on equipment, but hear very few expamples of actual events. I use an APC S-15 & it supplements power to my equipment pretty frequently (everything is hooked up to it). I can tell because I hear it click when the batter back up kicks on, a fan turns on as well and an indicator light comes on. It all works seamlessly.

Just yesterday, I had a lightning strike outside & the lights in the house flickered. The TV never fliched, the APC clicked, the fan came on & the regulation & battery back up light came on. After a period of time, I looked up & the light was off again. This stuff happens frequently on my grid, gives me a sence of comfort knowing I have it. May change my mind if something gets fried!


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## waculjr.903 (May 27, 2009)

Do you have big amps hooked to the s-15 too? Just curious if it can actually handle it all.


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

No, just my Yamaha RXV 795a & SVS PB13-U (rest of gear doesn't pull much). I have switched the display to show how many watts are pulling from it. If I'm really cranking a heavy LFE movie, I've got it up to 750 watts. It will pull the batteries down pretty quick though. And that's louder than I normally play it. Did it to just see how many watts the equipment could pull. The sub is the big energy hog.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

waculjr.903 said:


> I have my video set to pass-thru, would it still have an affect by the video processors?


That would be a question for support at Integra.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Its really Encore... Same situation has happened to me more than once in the Dallas area... Sorry you lost your Preamp....

A hefty UPS is really the only backup that will keep your power from kicking off and possibly damaging your equipment....

Of course calling Encore to complain about the outages is like peeing into the wind....


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Sorry if I repeat...it's not the outage or low voltage itself, but rather the high voltage spike/surge that sometimes comes along with it. A UPS might help if the sequence of events were exactly right. That would be a "graceful" dip in voltage without a spike, UPS goes on line, takes gear off line, spike occurs while gear is off-line. But that only covers a particular sequence of events, and actually not the most common ones. Adequate and complete surge protection is still required because most surges occur apart from brown-outs.

Adequate surge protection is expensive. Basically, you have to do local protection at the devices, and whole-house protection at the breaker box. Both require a good quality ground, neither is adequate alone, or without a good ground. Protection at the power distribution box will be the one that takes the hit from the outside, and is to some degree self-sacrificing, so you have to check for the green light every so often, and don't be surprised if some day you have to replace it. The point of protection in the breaker box is that it is at the point where outside surges are highest, and ground resistance is lowest, which is a highly effective place for it to be. Outlet strips and power conditioners don't have that low ground resistance, even with isolated ground wires of large size. They are effective, especially for internally generated surges, but only part of the picture as far as complete protection goes.

In this thread...the OP's old Monster device should be replaced, it's probably defective.


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