# The $3,000 Speaker Evaluation Nomination Thread



## Sonnie

We are moving on with preparation for round 3 of our floorstanding speaker evaluations. 

Previous rounds:

*The Official $2,500 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event*

*The Official $1,000 Speaker Evaluation / Home Audition Event Results*

This round will be considered our $3,000 round, where the speaker MSRP per pair will be a minimum of $2,500 and a maximum of $3,500... once again, floorstanding only.

*Below are the speakers nominated for this round as they are updated, including those that were in the voting for the last round.* 

No code has to be inserted here.*MSRP rounded to the nearest $100.

We will run nominations through December 15th and open the voting poll on December 16th... probably run it through January 15th. This will give us plenty of time to check with manufacturers/distributors and get speakers lined up... get them in had early to make sure there is no shipping damage to the mechanical operation of the speaker. We anticipate having this evaluation the end of February or the beginning for March... all tentative at this point.

Unlike previous events, these floorstanding speakers can be any color, we will not limit them to a non-sheen black. While we will ask for the lowest priced finish to be sent to us, they can be piano black or wood veneer or any color offered. HOWEVER, for the sake of keeping the price range at a minimum of $2,500 and maximum of $3,500... the lowest priced finish is the MSRP we will consider.

*NOTE*: Klipsch and ProAc do not wish to participate and their speakers will not be considered for nomination.

We will only evaluate 6 pairs of speakers... no surprises and no other reviews... strictly 6 speakers. Therefore, we will take the top 6 speakers with highest votes among the nominated speakers. If either of the companies refuse to send us speakers, we will take the next highest voted speaker. 

*Please provide a link to the speakers you are nominating at the manufacturer's website if possible.*

_*Let the nominations begin!*_


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## BufordTJustice

Philharmonic Audio "Philharmonic 3" Tower @ $3300/pair:

http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/phil3.html


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## Tonto

That continues to be a real shame with Klipsch. The La Scalas would have been a serious contender in this event. Too bad they have thumb'd us. At this price point, their quality becomes apparent. Boy I wish they would reconsider.


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## Sonnie

BufordTJustice said:


> Salk Songtower SC @ $3499/pair:
> 
> http://salksound.com/songtower%20supercharged%20home.htm


It makes sense that we only allow one speaker from each company in the voting poll, otherwise we could end up with two speakers from the same company in the evaluation, and we do not want that to happen, for so many obvious reasons. Nor do I imagine that any company is going to send us two different pair to compete against each other for obvious reasons.

If it ends up being the consensus, we can swap this SC model for the RT model we have listed right now.


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## AudiocRaver

Having briefly heard a speaker with a RAAL tweeter recently, my fingers are crossed for the Ascend (or Salk) to be there. That tweeter really sings!


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## ericzim

Golden Ear Triton 2
http://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-series
Tekton Seas-Pendragon
http://www.tektondesign.com/seas-pendragon.html


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## Sonnie

AudiocRaver said:


> Having briefly heard a speaker with a RAAL tweeter recently, my fingers are crossed for the Ascend (or Salk) to be there. That tweeter really sings!


The Salks were third highest voted that were not included last time, so I am thinking we may have two different speakers with a RAAL.




ericzim said:


> Golden Ear Triton 2
> http://www.goldenear.com/products/triton-series
> Tekton Seas-Pendragon
> http://www.tektondesign.com/seas-pendragon.html


Both are already on the list. :T


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## DougReim

Aperion Verus Grand @ $1998.00

http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-home-theater-speakers/verus-grand-tower-speaker


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## BufordTJustice

Sonnie said:


> It makes sense that we only allow one speaker from each company in the voting poll, otherwise we could end up with two speakers from the same company in the evaluation, and we do not want that to happen, for so many obvious reasons. Nor do I imagine that any company is going to send us two different pair to compete against each other for obvious reasons.
> 
> If it ends up being the consensus, we can swap this SC model for the RT model we have listed right now.


I completely understand and had overlooked the Salk on the $2,500 list. With the upgraded Seas Excel W15 midwoofers, I think that the SC seems likely to be a substantive improvement over the RT. I can also withdraw this submission and substitute one from another maker, if you think that would make things simpler.

*****************************
_EDIT: For simplicity's sake, I'll alter my submission in my original post to the Philharmonic 3 Tower.
_


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## pharoah

im going with the underdog again my vote tekton seas pendragon.


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## Sonnie

I guess the first post is confusing in some way?




DougReim said:


> Aperion Verus Grand @ $1998.00
> 
> http://www.aperionaudio.com/speakers/verus-home-theater-speakers/verus-grand-tower-speaker


Those do not fall into the qualifying range.




BufordTJustice said:


> I completely understand and had overlooked the Salk on the $2,500 list. With the upgraded Seas Excel W15 midwoofers, I think that the SC seems likely to be a substantive improvement over the RT. I can also withdraw this submission and substitute one from another maker, if you think that would make things simpler.
> 
> *****************************
> _EDIT: For simplicity's sake, I'll alter my submission in my original post to the Philharmonic 3 Tower.
> _


These will be no different, as Philharmonic is already on the list. We will need a consensus on which ones to include, but it does make sense in both cases to go with the best model in that price range.




pharoah said:


> im going with the underdog again my vote tekton seas pendragon.


These are also already on the list.


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## skeeter99

Given Focal was in the first round I'm going to nominate their brand new line, the Aria. The 926 are $3,300 msrp (I believe) so they fit right in the criteria. I got a call from my local shop last week that these are in and they want me to come help break them in,  Beautiful speakers and I'm guessing they'll sound amazing too. So there's my vote. 

Scott


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## lcaillo

I think where there are more than one potential candidate from a manufacturer, it will largely depend on that manufacturer to decide which product they think will best represent their brand, or which they have available.


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## lcaillo

I would add the Thiel SCS4T since we are going up to $3500. I am very curious to hear the coincident driver and I have always been a fan of Thiel's work.


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## Saturn94

Soundfield Audio Variable Sound Field Tower 1

http://soundfieldaudio.net/Products.html


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## tcarcio

How about some Paradigms. I love their look and would love to see how they stack up. 
http://www.paradigm.com/products/type=tower/model=signature-s6/page=overview


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## pharoah

id love to see a review of the totem acoustic hawk model.they would defo fit the price range for this.


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## Sonnie

BufordTJustice said:


> Philharmonic Audio "Philharmonic 3" Tower @ $3300/pair:
> 
> http://philharmonicaudio.com/folio-me/html/Phil%20Pages/phil3.html


I think we might stick with the Slim model for this event. The 3 model might be more than we can manhandle in and out of the room. They might need a review on their own.




skeeter99 said:


> Given Focal was in the first round I'm going to nominate their brand new line, the Aria. The 926 are $3,300 msrp (I believe) so they fit right in the criteria. I got a call from my local shop last week that these are in and they want me to come help break them in,  Beautiful speakers and I'm guessing they'll sound amazing too. So there's my vote.
> 
> Scott


Added to the list.



lcaillo said:


> I would add the Thiel SCS4T since we are going up to $3500. I am very curious to hear the coincident driver and I have always been a fan of Thiel's work.


Added to the list.



Saturn94 said:


> Soundfield Audio Variable Sound Field Tower 1
> 
> http://soundfieldaudio.net/Products.html


Added to the list.


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## Sonnie

tcarcio said:


> How about some Paradigms. I love their look and would love to see how they stack up.
> http://www.paradigm.com/products/type=tower/model=signature-s6/page=overview


The Studio 60 is the only thing that fits and we just did those. The S6 model is $6,600/pair.




pharoah said:


> id love to see a review of the totem acoustic hawk model.they would defo fit the price range for this.


Added


--------------

Keep in mind that just because they are nominated does not mean they will be voted into the round. You can almost expect the more popular and well known models are probably going to get the most votes.


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## macmovieman

Sonnie said:


> The Studio 60 is the only thing that fits and we just did those. The S6 model is $6,600/pair.
> 
> 
> 
> Added
> 
> 
> --------------
> 
> Keep in mind that just because they are nominated does not mean they will be voted into the round. You can almost expect the more popular and well known models are probably going to get the most votes.


How about just one 30th anniversary speaker. :rofl:

http://www.paradigm.com/products/collection=reference/model=tribute/page=overview


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## theJman

Not sure how many choices you want to have, but a few others that might be worth considering are the KEF R900, PSB Imagine T2 and Monitor Audio Silver 10.


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## nova

Hoping to see the RBH Sound 1266-SE and the Salk Sound Tower make it this time around.


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## Sonnie

Those KEF's are $5,000 MSRP. I don't think they have anything that fits the price range. The closest is $3,600. I can't seem to find an MSRP for the Silver RX10's. I see $2,500, but not sure if that is MSRP or a sale price. I have added the PSB T2 at $3,500.


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## Sonnie

nova said:


> Hoping to see the RBH Sound 1266-SE and the Salk Sound Tower make it this time around.


The RBH didn't even break 100 votes last round... second lowest in the poll. I don't suspect they will do well. I think the Salk's will make it looking at what they did last round.


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## Sonnie

Looks like the KEF R500 will work at $2,600/pr.


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## theJman

Sonnie said:


> Those KEF's are $5,000 MSRP. I don't think they have anything that fits the price range. The closest is $3,600. I can't seem to find an MSRP for the Silver RX10's. I see $2,500, but not sure if that is MSRP or a sale price. I have added the PSB T2 at $3,500.


I found the KEF R900's for $3600 as well, which is what prompted me to suggest them. However, upon further investigation it seems the places selling them for that price may be some type of black-market outlets. What about the R700 then? The MSRP for the Silver 10's is indeed $2500, so they should meet the criteria.


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## Sonnie

I added the RX-10 at $2,500.

The R700 is over the limit... so we will go with the R500 at $2,600.


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## theJman

Sonnie said:


> I added the RX-10 at $2,500.
> 
> The R700 is over the limit... so we will go with the R500 at $2,600.


The MSRP on the Emerald Physics was about $500 over the limit in the $2500 eval, so with that in mind it didn't really seem like $100 for the R700 would be an issue for this go round.


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## fokakis1

That's a great list of potential speakers for evaluation. Since I'm in the market for a pair at that price I'll be on the edge of my seat. I've been eying the Usher Dancer Mini I's, but the MSRP is $3999. I would also be interested in the CP-6371 @ $2900.

http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/loudspeakers/6-series/cp-6371


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## NBPk402

Tonto said:


> That continues to be a real shame with Klipsch. The La Scalas would have been a serious contender in this event. Too bad they have thumb'd us. At this price point, their quality becomes apparent. Boy I wish they would reconsider.


Don't the La Scalas now cost $3500 each? I have 3 older ones, and I love them. :T:T


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## subwoofery

Am mostly interested in controlled directivity speakers, so I'm gonna suggest: 
Gedlee's Nathan & 
Spatial's Trilogy T2 

Thanks, 
Kelvin


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## ALMFamily

All my suggestions are already listed - guess all I have to do is narrow down my votes...


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## bkeeler10

I'd like to nominate the Phase Technology PC9.5

Disclaimer: I work for a sister company of Phase Technology. However, I post here purely for personal interest and not to promote or advertise for anyone or anything.

I know Phase Tech is not well-known (some of you may have never heard of it). I would just point out that one of the panel members on the last comparison (Joe - ALMFamily) listened to the PC9.5 at RMAF a couple of months ago and put it on his top 5 list for the show. And I agree that it sounded superb at RMAF. So it should be competitive and I would be very interested in finding out how it compares to its peers in a controlled environment. So, yes, I'm trying to garner your votes for it out of sheer personal interest. 

That's the great thing about these comparisons -- several products get a truly fair comparison by being in the same room, driven by the same equipment and evaluated by the same small group of people. Very valuable information, and I again thank those who are making it happen. :clap:


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## KLH007

The GTA 1s have been re-designed to include a plate amp driving one of the 2 8" cones. Now you get a ribbon tweeter, planar magnetic midrange (using neodymium magnets), 8" mid bass, and self powered 8" bass driver relieving the external amp to drive 100 hz up and a friendlier load! The GTA 1s will surprise everyone with it's transparency and stunning vocals, but startle all with dynamics and loudness capability without glare. Price remains at $2700/pr.


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## Sonnie

theJman said:


> The MSRP on the Emerald Physics was about $500 over the limit in the $2500 eval, so with that in mind it didn't really seem like $100 for the R700 would be an issue for this go round.


Not sure how you figured that, as we took speakers ranging from $2,000 to $3,000 for the $2,500 event. We did not budge a penny over $3,000. However, that $3,000 is not a real MSRP, as the owner sells them everyday for $2,500. None the less, we had several listed at $3,000. 

And no... we won't budge any over $3,500. If we do, then we are going to have to add another 5-6 pairs. Then why not budge another $100 and add 5-6 more. We could go on forever, so we establish a cutoff and stick with it.




fokakis1 said:


> That's a great list of potential speakers for evaluation. Since I'm in the market for a pair at that price I'll be on the edge of my seat. I've been eying the Usher Dancer Mini I's, but the MSRP is $3999. I would also be interested in the CP-6371 @ $2900.
> 
> http://www.usheraudiousa.com/products/loudspeakers/6-series/cp-6371


Added.




subwoofery said:


> Am mostly interested in controlled directivity speakers, so I'm gonna suggest:
> Gedlee's Nathan &
> Spatial's Trilogy T2
> 
> Thanks,
> Kelvin


The T2's don't fit the price range. I can't find out MSRP on the Gedlee's, but they look like they would need stands anyway.




bkeeler10 said:


> I'd like to nominate the Phase Technology PC9.5
> 
> Disclaimer: I work for a sister company of Phase Technology. However, I post here purely for personal interest and not to promote or advertise for anyone or anything.
> 
> I know Phase Tech is not well-known (some of you may have never heard of it). I would just point out that one of the panel members on the last comparison (Joe - ALMFamily) listened to the PC9.5 at RMAF a couple of months ago and put it on his top 5 list for the show. And I agree that it sounded superb at RMAF. So it should be competitive and I would be very interested in finding out how it compares to its peers in a controlled environment. So, yes, I'm trying to garner your votes for it out of sheer personal interest.
> 
> That's the great thing about these comparisons -- several products get a truly fair comparison by being in the same room, driven by the same equipment and evaluated by the same small group of people. Very valuable information, and I again thank those who are making it happen. :clap:


Added.


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## AudiocRaver

Let's throw the Odyssey Lorelei into the mix, MSRP $2700. The early version of their Kismet Reference Monitor at RMAF sounded wonderful, but the Lorelei is the only model of theirs that fits the criteria, so that is my nomination.


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## craigsub

Sonnie - I believe the Gedlee speakers are no longer being made. You were not lacking search skills. They are not there to be found.


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## ALMFamily

bkeeler10 said:


> I'd like to nominate the Phase Technology PC9.5
> 
> Disclaimer: I work for a sister company of Phase Technology. However, I post here purely for personal interest and not to promote or advertise for anyone or anything.
> 
> I know Phase Tech is not well-known (some of you may have never heard of it). I would just point out that one of the panel members on the last comparison (Joe - ALMFamily) listened to the PC9.5 at RMAF a couple of months ago and put it on his top 5 list for the show. And I agree that it sounded superb at RMAF. So it should be competitive and I would be very interested in finding out how it compares to its peers in a controlled environment. So, yes, I'm trying to garner your votes for it out of sheer personal interest.
> 
> That's the great thing about these comparisons -- several products get a truly fair comparison by being in the same room, driven by the same equipment and evaluated by the same small group of people. Very valuable information, and I again thank those who are making it happen. :clap:


Oof - thanks Bryan for adding those. For some reason, I thought they were already on the list...


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## tcarcio

Sonnie said:


> The Studio 60 is the only thing that fits and we just did those. The S6 model is $6,600/pair.
> 
> Duh..:doh: My bad I misread and thought they were $3.300 a pair......I wish....:coocoo:


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## theJman

You might want to hold off on the Phase Tech speakers; I'm working with them now to obtain a 5.0 setup of the Premier Collection.


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## subwoofery

craigsub said:


> Sonnie - I believe the Gedlee speakers are no longer being made. You were not lacking search skills. They are not there to be found.


Really? Coz I was e-mailling back and forth with Geddes about the Abbey speakers and he stated that he has parts for everything. 

Sonnie, you're right, they will require some for of stand, maybe Geddes can provide them for the evaluation. 
The Nathan is $1,600 per speaker so $3,200 for the pair (http://www.gedlee.com/Loudspeakers.htm) 
When I asked question about his design, he clearly designed his speaker to be listenned to off-axis in order to create a phantom image with depth and layering - exactly what you guyz have been craving for 

Kelvin


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## craigsub

Kelvin - Pretty sure on this. He dropped me a note last year that he was stopping production. It's expensive keeping units in stock, but it would not be a surprise that he has parts in stock. It would also not be a surprise if he would custom build a speaker or 2 on a "cash order", if he has parts left.


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## bkeeler10

theJman said:


> You might want to hold off on the Phase Tech speakers; I'm working with them now to obtain a 5.0 setup of the Premier Collection.


Hopefully that will include the PC9.5, not just the bookshelf models. If it is just bookshelves, I propose we keep the 9.5 on the list.


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## subwoofery

craigsub said:


> Kelvin - Pretty sure on this. He dropped me a note last year that he was stopping production. It's expensive keeping units in stock, but it would not be a surprise that he has parts in stock. It would also not be a surprise if he would custom build a speaker or 2 on a "cash order", if he has parts left.


You might be right  

Kelvin


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## english210

Sonnie said:


> Those KEF's are $5,000 MSRP. I don't think they have anything that fits the price range. The closest is $3,600. I can't seem to find an MSRP for the Silver RX10's. I see $2,500, but not sure if that is MSRP or a sale price. * I have added the PSB T2 at $3,500*.


Cool, the PSB's I've heard, as well as (briefly) the CM9's, so there will be some chance of having something I'm familiar with - I always think that helps when reading others' opinions about speakers, as it provides somewhat of a baseline. The PSB's are on my shortlist, not least because of their slimline form factor which works well in my room. When voting opens, I'll be voting for them certainly.


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## Sonnie

AudiocRaver said:


> Let's throw the Odyssey Lorelei into the mix, MSRP $2700. The early version of their Kismet Reference Monitor at RMAF sounded wonderful, but the Lorelei is the only model of theirs that fits the criteria, so that is my nomination.


Added



tcarcio said:


> Sonnie said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Studio 60 is the only thing that fits and we just did those. The S6 model is $6,600/pair.
> 
> 
> 
> Duh..:doh: My bad I misread and thought they were $3.300 a pair......I wish....:coocoo:
Click to expand...

Yeah... don't we all wish!!!



> theJman said:
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to hold off on the Phase Tech speakers; I'm working with them now to obtain a 5.0 setup of the Premier Collection.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bkeeler10 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hopefully that will include the PC9.5, not just the bookshelf models. If it is just bookshelves, I propose we keep the 9.5 on the list.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

We can keep them on there, as it would be quite a different style of review with measurements anyway.


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## Mike0206

Looks like a good mix already so I couldn't even think of a brand to suggest at this point. Looking forward to this eval.


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## templemaners

JBL Professional LSR6332. They come in just over $3100.

I don't have enough posts to put a link in, but they're pretty easy to find their home page via Google.


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## Sonnie

I think those are more for professional use than home use. They would probably need stands too, so that would exclude them.


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## JeffB

Wharfdale Jade 5
http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Product...44/CID/248/language/en-GB/Default.aspx#detail

Listed at $3,199.0 from music direct.
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-53420-wharfedale-jade-5-tower-speakers-pr.aspx?source=igodigital&

I suggest these because they are an aperiodic 3-way design, which is a bit unusual in the audio world. I think the aperiodic design offers the hope of more articulate bass and the small mid-range driver offers the hope of more articulate vocals provided the cross-over is well executed.


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## Sonnie

Interesting speaker... added.


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## tweakman

I would like to nominate Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand SE. Last I inquired, they retailed at $3500.

http://www.vienna-acoustics.com/products/mozart/mozart.php


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## Sonnie

tweakman said:


> I would like to nominate Vienna Acoustics Mozart Grand SE. Last I inquired, they retailed at $3500.
> 
> http://www.vienna-acoustics.com/products/mozart/mozart.php


Added


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## admranger

You already have such a great list I'm ready to vote:

B&W CM9 is my first choice since I already have B&W speakers (so my timbre matching is easy then). I'd prefer matte black or maple, neither of which they have...

Next are the Von Schweikert VR-22s -- supposedly very forgiving on placement, but require significant break in time...

Lastly, the Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grand SE -- beautiful looking, wonder how they'll sound?

Drool worthy fun to listen to these speakers. I'd volunteer to help, but you might not get me out of the listening chairs until the speakers get shipped back! :R


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## Sonnie

I think we are going to end up allowing 7 votes and not automatically putting any in... as I think we'll get one with the RAAL tweeter anyway, which several were wanting.


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## gdstupak

I nominate...

ARX Z10


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## Sonnie

Added


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## whitey019

I was going to nominate the Paradigm studio 100 v.5s, but I see that since I bought mine in 2011, they have priced themselves right out of this competition. Maybe for your next evaluation!


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## bkeeler10

gdstupak said:


> I nominate...
> 
> ARX Z10


Is that the same Arx that makes the A5?


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## gdstupak

The Arx Z10 was a joke (wishful thinking). There is no such thing.....or is there????
They have announced an upcoming Arx A7.


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## Sonnie

Oh no... and I thought Jon had told you about the Z10. I thought the news had been broken. :dontknow:


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## bkeeler10

Don't mean to derail this thread, but what is the A7 going to be? A bigger three-way tower above the A5? Do we know yet? Guess I am out of the loop.


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## Sonnie

Larger drivers and dual midrange drivers... painted finish.


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## tweakman

> Lastly, the Vienna Acoustic Mozart Grand SE -- beautiful looking, wonder how they'll sound?


They sound as beautiful as their looks...


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## Sonnie

I have added the Bamberg Series 2 TMM at $2,800.


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## skeeter99

Sonnie said:


> I have added the Bamberg Series 2 TMM at $2,800.


Oh nice! Haven't heard much from these guys in a while. This just keeps getting better


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## ALMFamily

skeeter99 said:


> Oh nice! Haven't heard much from these guys in a while. This just keeps getting better


We heard the Series 5s at LSAF (and I heard them at a different GTG) and, I must say, once Phil had them dialed in, it was probably the highlight of the LSAF show for me. The imaging and depth of soundstage was simply amazing. I did not realize there was one in this price range - going to have to look at them to decide if I want to vote for those!


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## tusker

Probably already answered, but why not compare a good set of bookshelves? For example, id live to hear opinions of say the Paradigm Sig S'2 against floor standers.


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## Sonnie

We are all over it... http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...l-bookshelf-evaluation-suggestion-thread.html


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## vann_d

JTR Noesis 228HT

MSRP fits right in. Manu direct is a little low but add shipping and you're in there. At least something from these guys as I've heard nothing but rave reviews. Maybe Triple 12 HT?

All interesting designs with super high sensitivity and coaxially mounted compression drivers...

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/noesis-228ht/


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## Sonnie

Aren't those designed more for HT than music? They would definitely require a subwoofer. Even the 12T's only extend to 60Hz. 

I also think they are designed for use with stands, although the 12T is 40" tall. Wouldn't that midrange/tweeter being that low (approx 20" off floor) cause it to need a stand?


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## vann_d

I think they're just designed to be good but yeah, you're right, they would need a sub. I kinda forgot about that part of it. I guess that kinda rules them out for 2 channel.

As far as the height thing goes, it is not as critical to be on-axis with a horn loaded compression driver as it is with a dome tweeter speaker. Once seated, you would probably be well within the sweet spot for the vertical power response. In fact, you may have noticed that many of the newer Klipsch offerings feature a horn loaded tweeter that is a bit higher than the normal seating height. This is because the speakers actually have a better sound below axis.

I use Pi Speakers 4Pi's as my LR and they sit on the ground with compression driver at around 20". Soundstage is at ear level to me...

Anyhow, my hopes are dashed...:sad:


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## Sonnie

Since you mentioned Pi... would not his 4Pi's qualify if we upgraded them with all the electronic options? They would be $1,645 each / $3,290 pair.

He had them on stands and angled up at LSAF...


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## vann_d

I think they would be great if you could get a pair. They are kind of custom order IIRC. I bought the kit from him and built my own poorly finished cabinets to spec.

I've wondered about the upward angling of them that I've seen in a couple photos. My initial thoughts are that he did that for the standing listener at demos. I have no doubts Wayne would be happy to explain.

Per his measurement specs, I think the vertical upward power response is a little smoother.

http://www.pispeakers.com/Measurements/fourPi.html

Like I said before, mine are on the floor. The horn center is about 20" off the ground but my seated ear height is only about 32" maximum. At a distance of 8-9 feet the angle is minimal (~7 degrees). I like them a lot. Very smooth and will go very loud without sounding harsh or distorted.


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## Sonnie

I will see if he has a pair to send us. Of course with so many in the running, my thinking is the more well known popular brands are going to get more votes. BUT... we never really know for sure.


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## theJman

JTR's would have been high on my list too -- I've head several difference speakers Jeff makes, and they all sounded brilliant -- but they're designed for serious output, so the lower F3 mandates a subwoofer. I suspect they won't work in this eval because of that.


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## SteveCallas

How about some Zu Audio speakers? I have seen them make some pretty boastful claims over the past year or so regarding their attention to detail and sound quality. 

The Omen Def should fit the criteria, or possibly the Soul Superfly.

http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen-def-1b

http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul-superfly


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## alphaiii

Just a note - the Boston Acoustics M series if being sold at 50% off numerous places now (excluding the center and surround)... so I'm not sure the M350 really fits into this price bracket, unless the only qualifying factor is retail price.


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## Sonnie

SteveCallas said:


> How about some Zu Audio speakers? I have seen them make some pretty boastful claims over the past year or so regarding their attention to detail and sound quality.
> 
> The Omen Def should fit the criteria, or possibly the Soul Superfly.
> 
> http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/omen-def-1b
> 
> http://www.zuaudio.com/loudspeakers/soul-superfly


I added the Omen Def ... would love to have this one included myself. However, I remember calling them a while back about trying out a pair of their low end models and they were pretty short with me. They did not seem too friendly, but maybe I got the wrong person.




alphaiii said:


> Just a note - the Boston Acoustics M series if being sold at 50% off numerous places now (excluding the center and surround)... so I'm not sure the M350 really fits into this price bracket, unless the only qualifying factor is retail price.


MSRP... you can find a lot of these at bargain pricing, but it is what the manufacturer claims they are worth is what we go by. If the manufacturer sold them at a lesser price 100% of the time, kind of like Emerald Physics, we would probably use that lesser value as their true retail.


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## alphaiii

Sonnie said:


> MSRP... you can find a lot of these at bargain pricing, but it is what the manufacturer claims they are worth is what we go by. If the manufacturer sold them at a lesser price 100% of the time, kind of like Emerald Physics, we would probably use that lesser value as their true retail.


Got ya. Honestly, I doubt the Boston's will make the cut to be included in the shootout anyway, so it may have been moot for me to bring up.

On a side note, I did demo the M25 ($800 MSRP) in home, and currently still own the Wharfedale Jade 1 ($1200). I think the Jade's are clearly better (my opinion of course)... so I'm hoping the Jade towers make it into the evaluation over the Boston M350.


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## Sonnie

I agree... I doubt very seriously they will get very many votes. Not sure about the Wharfedale speakers... but I am thinking they may not get too many either (could be wrong).


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## alphaiii

JeffB said:


> Wharfdale Jade 5
> http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Product...44/CID/248/language/en-GB/Default.aspx#detail
> 
> Listed at $3,199.0 from music direct.
> http://www.musicdirect.com/p-53420-wharfedale-jade-5-tower-speakers-pr.aspx?source=igodigital&
> 
> I suggest these because they are an aperiodic 3-way design, which is a bit unusual in the audio world. I think the aperiodic design offers the hope of more articulate bass and the small mid-range driver offers the hope of more articulate vocals provided the cross-over is well executed.


I have the Jade 1 right now, and I think they are one of the best monitors I've ever heard. The bass is a bit light, but it's only a 5.25" driver... and quality of the bass that is there is very good. 

I'd definitely like to see how the Jade 5 does if it makes it into the eval.


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## alphaiii

Sonnie said:


> Not sure about the Wharfedale speakers... but I am thinking they may not get too many either (could be wrong).


Probably right on that one... 

Either way, it's going to be a cool evaluation... Alot of speakers I'd love to own, but won't afford any time soon.


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## prerich

What about the Quad 25L http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/Product.aspx?lang=En&Tab=42

Forget what the site says (it's not a bookshelf - its a floorstander - trust me on this  ) I think the going price is 3400.00 usd a pair.


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## prerich

I'd definitely vote for the Jade 5 to be included!!! Wharfedale has been the rage lately!!!! I've had good experience with the Diamond line. It's sad that Klipsch opted out on this. However I don't think they have a speaker in the Heritage line that fits the bill. The cheapest would be the Heresy 3 at $1700.00 a pair, but the next ones up would be the Cornwall, and they are at $4k a pair!!!! Some one mentioned LaScala's but those are at $7K a pair!


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## prerich

A bit off topic - but what would be cool is a vintage evaluation (since used speakers are becoming in vogue now)!


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## english210

alphaiii said:


> Probably right on that one...
> 
> Either way, it's going to be a cool evaluation... Alot of speakers I'd love to own, but won't afford any time soon.


Just to stir the pot...

How about each style of speaker is evaluated against others of it's type, and a 'winner' is determined, then the 'winner' of each type goes against the others???

My motivation for this idea is simply that I want to hear more about a lot of the ones on the list, and give the parameters of 6 finalists, some of the speakers I'd be interested in hearing about just won't make the voting cut.

It would of course mean far more work for those involved, BUT it also mean more ribs!! 

I count 17 that I'd like to hear input on....


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## SteveCallas

What could also potentially allow for more speakers to be tested is finding the sweat spot for several different speakers in the room at once, then using a switch box to be able to quickly switch to different speakers for each passage. Not only will the results be more meaningful in terms of relative sound quality, but you will be able to test faster.


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## Sonnie

prerich said:


> What about the Quad 25L http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/Product.aspx?lang=En&Tab=42
> 
> Forget what the site says (it's not a bookshelf - its a floorstander - trust me on this  ) I think the going price is 3400.00 usd a pair.


I would need to be able to find out who the U.S. distributor is and see if they would be willing to lend us a pair. Quad isn't going to be willing to ship any to us from the U.K.




prerich said:


> A bit off topic - but what would be cool is a vintage evaluation (since used speakers are becoming in vogue now)!


Who is going to send us their speakers? This is the similar situation to DIY. Owners don't care to risk shipping their speakers to us... and they certainly don't want to have to pay to have the professionally packed and shipped to and from. It is simply not feasible.




english210 said:


> How about each style of speaker is evaluated against others of it's type, and a 'winner' is determined, then the 'winner' of each type goes against the others???


Manufacturers are less likely to send us speakers for a "shootout". There would be a few, but most would bow out, which is why we basically stick with reviews for each speaker. Plus, it is possible that in one room speaker A sounds better than speaker B, yet in a differently setup room with different electronics, it may be that speaker B sounds better than speaker A.




SteveCallas said:


> What could also potentially allow for more speakers to be tested is finding the sweat spot for several different speakers in the room at once, then using a switch box to be able to quickly switch to different speakers for each passage. Not only will the results be more meaningful in terms of relative sound quality, but you will be able to test faster.


If the sweet spots are relatively close, this _might_ would work, if you can get the speakers side by side, but if one speaker is behind another, the one in the front is going to negatively influence the sound of the one in the back (obviously) because it is in the path of the speaker being tested. I have recently tried the side by side A/B comparison (using a remote) with a pair of speakers that have relatively similar best placements in my room (each one sacrificed slightly). The problem was with one placement the speaker on the outside always seemed to be my favorite each time I swapped them. I could move them farther out so that the inside would always be the best, but I could not find a happy median to make it fair. There is really no perfect way to evaluate speakers in an A/B type testing scenario because of placement issues. I suppose if you have a pair that had best placement 3' outside of another pair's best placement... and the inside speakers were just slightly behind the plane of the outside speakers, it might would work, but we are not finding this scenario often, if any that I can recall. However, even with them side by side we get into it being more of a speaker shootout (see my comments above).

Wayne and I are planning a few days of testing and experimenting probably the second week of January with a few speakers, including some A/B'ing testing, to see if we can figure out a way for it to be of help to us.


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## admranger

I think we need a speaker championship series. It would take data from the speaker coaches poll, Sonnie Power Ranking, Strength of scheduled playlist, and a few other factors to determine the #1 and #2 speakers. These two speakers would then face off in the Kimber Kable speaker championship series national championship listening room. 

The other speakers would be face each other head to head based on listening room preferences and picking order, except for the Big 10" woofer speakers and Packaged 12 inch woofer speakers, which automatically go to the Rose colored glasses listening room (unless one of them is in the aforementioned championship listening room). 

What could be simpler?


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## Sonnie

Well... I am from Alabama where most ALL of the National Championships have come from over the last ... uhh.... FOUR years! Maybe FIVE??? So I do have experience with championships. :huh:


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## zieglj01

My nomination - Atlantic Technology AT-1 speakers
The word is good and they sure are interesting.
http://www.atlantictechnology.com/default.asp?NodeId=159


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## ALMFamily

Sonnie said:


> Well... I am from Alabama where most ALL of the National Championships have come from over the last ... uhh.... FOUR years! Maybe FIVE??? So I do have experience with championships. :huh:


Sigh - it always comes back to the Tide... :bigsmile:

But, where are you guys for basketball?!


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## Bjski

How about the Bryston Mini T's $2650 with the vinyl finish. Probably another $250 for stands. Been reading some excellent reviews on the new Bryston line.


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## Sonnie

zieglj01 said:


> My nomination - Atlantic Technology AT-1 speakers
> The word is good and they sure are interesting.
> http://www.atlantictechnology.com/default.asp?NodeId=159


Added




ALMFamily said:


> But, where are you guys for basketball?!


What is that... is it something like hockey?




Bjski said:


> How about the Bryston Mini T's $2650 with the vinyl finish. Probably another $250 for stands. Been reading some excellent reviews on the new Bryston line.


Floorstanders only... bookshelf and monitor speakers will be under a different event, if we ever get to them.


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## JeffB

I figure it might be hard to get a hold of the Wharfdale Jade 5 being a UK speaker. I like to look at whathifi.com once in a while, but it is really hard to audition most of those UK speakers in the US.


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## Bjski

How about the Axiom M100 about $2700....$3000 with the outriggers. They feature the new 6 1/2 woofer. Supposedly woofer is better build quality than the original Axiom M80v3.You can now buy the new woofer in the Axiom M80v3 along with several other models. Different crossover in the new M100 and the high power M80. I believed Axiom built this woofer for the new Bryston Mini A tower which will be released in 2014.


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## Sonnie

JeffB said:


> I figure it might be hard to get a hold of the Wharfdale Jade 5 being a UK speaker. I like to look at whathifi.com once in a while, but it is really hard to audition most of those UK speakers in the US.


I may not have realized this. 




Bjski said:


> How about the Axiom M100 about $2700....$3000 with the outriggers. They feature the new 6 1/2 woofer. Supposedly woofer is better build quality than the original Axiom M80v3.You can now buy the new woofer in the Axiom M80v3 along with several other models. Different crossover in the new M100 and the high power M80. I believed Axiom built this woofer for the new Bryston Mini A tower which will be released in 2014.


What are outriggers? What about the LFR660 that cost a little more?


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## vidiot33

Hello! I'm new to this site, but I've been active in home theater for decades. I'd like to cast my vote for the Ascend Acoustics Sierra Towers with the RAAL tweeters. Many thanks!


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## Sonnie

We are not voting yet. That will hopefully start on Saturday or Sunday or Monday... and we will have a poll.


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## vidiot33

Thank you sir. By the way, I noticed you were looking at tube amps in an earlier thread. Do you find them a good fit for home theater, or is this strictly a 2 channel situation?


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## Sonnie

It would probably be better to ask me in that thread, but I have not tried any tube gear for home theater at this point and have no plans to.


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## AudiocRaver

admranger said:


> I think we need a speaker championship series. It would take data from the speaker coaches poll, Sonnie Power Ranking, Strength of scheduled playlist, and a few other factors to determine the #1 and #2 speakers. These two speakers would then face off in the Kimber Kable speaker championship series national championship listening room.
> 
> The other speakers would be face each other head to head based on listening room preferences and picking order, except for the Big 10" woofer speakers and Packaged 12 inch woofer speakers, which automatically go to the Rose colored glasses listening room (unless one of them is in the aforementioned championship listening room).
> 
> What could be simpler?


My main concern would be, as would Sonnie's I am sure, that any special teams, such as a field goal kicking team, would have the ability to effectively defend against a potential run back. I am told that this can be a problem for some field goal kicking teams. Thoughts, Sonnie?



Sonnie said:


> If the sweet spots are relatively close, this _might_ would work, if you can get the speakers side by side, but if one speaker is behind another, the one in the front is going to negatively influence the sound of the one in the back (obviously) because it is in the path of the speaker being tested. I have recently tried the side by side A/B comparison (using a remote) with a pair of speakers that have relatively similar best placements in my room (each one sacrificed slightly). The problem was with one placement the speaker on the outside always seemed to be my favorite each time I swapped them. I could move them farther out so that the inside would always be the best, but I could not find a happy median to make it fair. There is really no perfect way to evaluate speakers in an A/B type testing scenario because of placement issues. I suppose if you have a pair that had best placement 3' outside of another pair's best placement... and the inside speakers were just slightly behind the plane of the outside speakers, it might would work, but we are not finding this scenario often, if any that I can recall. However, even with them side by side we get into it being more of a speaker shootout (see my comments above).


There are already many deep thoughts and posts going back and forth on this topic, believe me. We are not just comparing speakers, we are finding each speaker's best possible set up, which means having it alone in the room. How to turn this into a meaningful AB test is beyond difficult. As Sonnie has said, when you set up another speaker nearby, it disrupts the sound field of both, affecting imaging and sound stage. Typical speaker AB testing that you read about involves multiple sets of speakers, none of which have been set up for optimum sound. The result is to put them all on an equally mediocre footing, which hardly seems worth taking the trouble to do at all. We are working to understand the variables as well as can be done. And to my knowledge, there is very little that has been done in the field at this level of detail.


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## Bjski

Sonnie said:


> I may not have realized this.
> 
> 
> 
> What are outriggers? What about the LFR660 that cost a little more?


Bottom supports for the speaker instead of spike's......similar to what Thiel offers.

You could go with LFR660 but now your adding DSP along with more amplification.


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## Sonnie

AudiocRaver said:


> My main concern would be, as would Sonnie's I am sure, that any special teams, such as a field goal kicking team, would have the ability to effectively defend against a potential run back. I am told that this can be a problem for some field goal kicking teams. Thoughts, Sonnie?


Hmmm... gimme one second!




Bjski said:


> Bottom supports for the speaker instead of spike's......similar to what Thiel offers.
> 
> You could go with LFR660 but now your adding DSP along with more amplification.


We have plenty of amplification... and if the DSP is built-in, that is not a problem. Just thinking they would be a slightly higher end model that might fare better... but that is merely a guess based on what I read and the price.


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## Bjski

Sonnie said:


> Hmmm... gimme one second!
> 
> 
> 
> We have plenty of amplification... and if the DSP is built-in, that is not a problem. Just thinking they would be a slightly higher end model that might fare better... but that is merely a guess based on what I read and the price.


Not really sure if I would consider that more of a high end model.........they are both about the same price. The m100 is geared more towards 2 channel where the m660 omnidirectional. I'm thinking better bass with the m100 and wider soundstage with m660. Hey,only a suggestion your choice.


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## Sonnie

We reviewed the M80's and the LFR1100's. The guy that reviewed the LFR1100's owned the M80's and said he preferred the M80's for HT and the LFR's for music. He had pretty good things to say about the LFR's and how much better they were than the M80's... so we'll go with the LFR660's and see if they can get enough votes to make the round.


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## prerich

JeffB said:


> I figure it might be hard to get a hold of the Wharfdale Jade 5 being a UK speaker. I like to look at whathifi.com once in a while, but it is really hard to audition most of those UK speakers in the US.


Well the Quad 25L is definitely hard to come buy - but the Jade 5 is actually sold by MusicDirect.com for 3199.00 a pair. That's what I find strange - I can find several Wharfedale dealers but no Quad dealers :justdontknow:. They are owned by the same parent company.


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## Sonnie

Sound Approach in Virginia has them in stock. Gold Sound in Colorado. kemela in Atlanta, Georgia.

I am wondering if Quad has gone out of business... their website (http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/) has been inaccessible for several days now.


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## Bjski

Sonnie said:


> We reviewed the M80's and the LFR1100's. The guy that reviewed the LFR1100's owned the M80's and said he preferred the M80's for HT and the LFR's for music. He had pretty good things to say about the LFR's and how much better they were than the M80's... so we'll go with the LFR660's and see if they can get enough votes to make the round.


If you use the LFR660 I hope you are going to get the high power version. When you evaluated the LFR1100's that was with the previous woofer and the same for M80's the old woofer along with the older crossover. The new M80's are only shipping now. The M80's come in 2 version's just as the LRF660 do. This is why I suggested M100 only one version.:huh:


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## Sonnie

I would think the high powered version would be the one to get with the XPR-5 power and room to spare on cost.


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## Bjski

Sonnie said:


> I would think the high powered version would be the one to get with the XPR-5 power and room to spare on cost.


Getting ready to vote and I see you have the regular Axiom M660 not the high power I suggested which goes for $3200.


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## Sonnie

If it is a built-in DSP we can add it, but it does not appear this is. The DSP is a separate unit.


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## Sonnie

Last chance for nominations... voting poll will be posted later this evening.


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## Bjski

Sonnie said:


> If it is a built-in DSP we can add it, but it does not appear this is. The DSP is a separate unit.


This has nothing to do with the DSP. Axiom has always been criticized by some for poor quality in their parts. Axiom is now offering a new 61/2 woofer and crossover in certain models. The regular version of M660 is about $2800 the high power version with the different 61/2 woofers and crossover is $3200.

Axiom is offering what they consider a more "stereo" pair the M100. You cannot get confused with that model because it only comes with the new woofer's and crossover. It's suppose to be their top 2 channel model which starts at $2700.

Axiom has been reviewed so many times and the reviewer's either love em or hate them. Why not review the newer woofer's? Can we justify Axiom's price increase for the new drivers. How would they stack up against other $3000 models. My original suggestion was the M100 because it's only one version about $2700. Add outriggers another $250 and your around $3000. We could forgo the outriggers get wood veneer for another $500 and it would look more like a $3000 speaker. How do the new driver's compare against the competition and are they worth the added expense? ( In the case of the M80 the price starts out at either $1500 or $2300. That's a significant price difference. Is the extra $700 worth it?) You mentioned one of The Shack's reviewer's owns LFR1100 and he steered you towards M660. Is he going to be on the panel? If so I would think he would have an idea on how the new woofers compare.

I have no vested interest in Axiom. I do use their speaker's in one of my home theater systems. The other home theater system feature's Paradigm and another Polk. When I do serious listening, I listen to my two channel system which currently features the Legacy Focus SE. 

Funny, I wrote all these reply's trying to get it right and the Axiom's might not even make the cut. 
Cheers


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## Sonnie

We don't consider finishes for the MSRP... we take the lowest priced finish and use that MSRP. I have changed it to be the HP version. I initially was not seeing the option which is why I thought it had to do with the DSP, since you mentioned it earlier. Anyway... the HP version is at $3,200, so it makes sense they expect it to perform better than the M100 at $2,700. 

And no... none of us on the panel have review Axiom speakers... and our previous reviewer had no influence on what speakers we nominate. We simply want to try to nominate the higher priced model in that range from $2,500 to $3,500. Driver upgrades are fine, but finishes do not make them sound any different, so we do not consider those. We see driver upgrades as performance upgrades and finishes as cosmetic luxury upgrades.


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## Sonnie

Nominations are now closed... you may vote here:

*$3,000 Speaker Evaluation Event - Nominated Speakers Voting Poll*


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