# DIY wall mount speakers?



## solid7

I am looking to design and build my first wall mount speakers. Obviously, it needs to fit flush on the wall, but I have 2 references in mind for the kind of sound quality that I am hoping to achieve. I like the KEF KHT9000, and the Mirage FS V2. I have a small room, so I want a small, discrete speaker, that makes big, full sound. I don't need something as small as my current Mirage Nano CC's, but I also don't want a wall mounted refrigerator. :bigsmile:

I have a feeling that this project is going to take me into new areas. (crossovers and whatnot) I sincerely appreciate the input from expert DIY'ers on this one.


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## Anthony

Give these a try:
http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker20a.html

2 Way, simple crossover. You don't have to make it all curvy like he did. You will need a sub, though, effectively making it a 3 way, but subs are easy compared to full rangers 

Good luck and keep us posted.


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## solid7

Thanks for the link.

I do like those, but the one question I have, is should I use more speakers per cabinet? (if so, what is the selection criteria, especially given such a vast amount of choices) I have plenty of bass, as I already have 2 subwoofers - but my Nano CC's just aren't putting out enough, in my opinion. I want something that will really add big and better sound quality, and I don't know what it will take to get there.

Being fairly new to HT, I don't quite know how to express what I want, other than to say, big sound, little box.

I really would like a pair of the Mirage FS V2's, but I don't like the matte finish, and I don't want to try to make some sort of goofy mounting system for them. If I go DIY, I can build the mount system in. Probably someone has already thought of what I came up with, but I have a very stable (and simple) mount system for wall mount speakers on drywall. I just want to make a DIY speaker to go with my DIY mount.


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## 1Michael

If you want big sound you need a bigger box. http://www.htguide.com/forum/forumdisplay.php4?f=39


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## solid7

I meant, bigger sound than what I have...

If you look at the speakers that I listed, vs. what I have, you should understand what I mean.

For what it's worth, I also like BOTH the look and sound of something like *these*. I would really like a DIY design that somewhat mimics these. (in that, they are relatively shallow, but with nice sound, and great aesthetics)


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## bonehead848

placing speakers in thin cabinets and on the wall is far from optimal to get the best performance out of a particular speaker. Because of that you will have a tough time finding designs that allow for that kind of placement. When people around here design speakers they usually do so in bigger cabinets at lease a foot from the wall. 

If I were you I would find a design you like with however big speakers you want and try and contact the designer. They may be able to offer you a few tweaks to the crossover and advice on cabinet construction that will allow it to please your eyes but still give good (though not optimal) sound.


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## solid7

> If I were you I would find a design you like with however big speakers you want and try and contact the designer.


Somehow, I don't think that's going to do any good. I have listed the 3 designs that I really like, but there's just no way that those companies are going to give any details about a commercially available product.

As far as "optimal" goes, I'm not really striving for the ultimate of ultimates. I have a very small room, and want a more immersive sound than my satellite mains provide, if that's possible. (and I want something that looks really cool) If it's not, please let me know if I'm wasting my time. The satellites that I have currently are good speakers, but I'm thinking to make them into my last 2 channels for 7.1. I would replace them with my DIY mains.

Seriously, I've heard all of the aforementioned speakers, and they may not be "optimal" on a graph, but they sound seriously great in the HT setups that I heard them in. I have to believe that there must be someone out there with a slimline wall mount design that sounds good enough to be proud of.


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## solid7

More examples:

B&W VM6, FPM5, and FPM6.

These are nice. DIY version, please... :jiggy:


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## bonehead848

no no no, i didnt mean contact the company designers. I meant find a diy design you like and contact that designer. For instance, on htguide.com a member posted a design for a center speaker. A couple people wanted to use it on top of their tv and against the wall instead of away from all walls so he designed a version with no bsc (baffle step compensation) which is, i believe, exactly what you want for placing on wall.

You are definitely not wasting your time. If you take the time to really plan this out you are going to be able to build something that kills your satellites and, depending on your wood skills, really nice looking. 

Check out the designs here

http://htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655
http://www.geocities.com/cc00541/index.html
http://zaphaudio.com/

again, you want to ask the crossover experts but I believe you want to take one of these designs and then build the no bsc version. You can also make the boxes thinner if you want but keep in mind the thinner you go the more bass you lose. Make sure you keep the baffle the same dimensions and use a roundover on the edges.


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## solid7

bonehead848 said:


> You can also make the boxes thinner if you want but keep in mind the thinner you go the more bass you lose. Make sure you keep the baffle the same dimensions and use a roundover on the edges.


This is where my learning experience begins. I have an IB subwoofer, and it is crossed over at 80 Hz. How much bass do you design into mains, when you have a separate subwoofer?


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## bonehead848

If I were you I would go sealed to get the cabinet size smaller. Any of the designs I linked to will handle down to 80 no problem sealed but if you do make the cabinet thinner you may want to experiment with a crossover of 100 just to be safe.


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## solid7

In the course of my research, I came across the term "open baffle" speaker. This looks interesting. Could this be a possibility for my situation? I haven't seen any wall mounted, but I haven't (yet) seen anything that says one cannot do this.


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## solid7

Anthony said:


> Give these a try:
> http://www.zaphaudio.com/audio-speaker20a.html
> 
> 2 Way, simple crossover. You don't have to make it all curvy like he did. You will need a sub, though, effectively making it a 3 way, but subs are easy compared to full rangers
> 
> Good luck and keep us posted.


I went back, and re-read this whole thread, and I think that what I am trying to do is much simpler than what I have stated. (I reserve the right to be wrong)

The design you quoted is probably right - I have a concurrent project with a sub, which when fine tuned, I'm sure will provide me with plenty of bass. So, maybe what I really want, is a good 2-way. The only thing that I would say, is that I'd like a multi-driver arrangement. (I like the way they look - maybe a silly reason, but I'm being honest) So would it be easier to create a wall mount unit, with multiple drivers, and based somewhat on the design in the above link? Also, I notice that the frequency response on my satellites cuts off at 110 Hz, and my sub is crossed over at 80 Hz. Is this acceptable? (this could factor into the build equation, I'm guessing)

I will be selecting drivers as much for the aesthetic appeal as functionality. I'd really like to go grill-less on the final product, with high cool factor.

Thanks for your help so far... (and patience for the newbie)


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## mdrake

Have you considered a HUGE line array built into the wall. :bigsmile:


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## bonehead848

First I agree that a 2 way is definitely the way to go. 3 way speakers are much more expensive and require more complicated crossovers.

Also, you cannot use the above design and just add another driver. The crossover would have to be redesigned or it would sound terrible.

You can certainly use the design above but if I were you I would use larger speakers. Sure that 4" one could go down to 80 Hz but there is a big big big difference in how a single 4 can do 80 and how a pair of 6.5 will do it. It really will shock you the amount of difference. If you are going for aesthetics, there are few prettier speakers than the dayton rs150 IMO. Depending on your budget (we could use that figure in helping you pick) a great design to look at would be the nat p for example. There are a number of designs that use that driver but they are a little pricey.


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## solid7

mdrake said:


> Have you considered a HUGE line array built into the wall. :bigsmile:


I had not, but if it will work in a standard depth wall, I'd sure consider it.



bonehead848 said:


> First I agree that a 2 way is definitely the way to go. 3 way speakers are much more expensive and require more complicated crossovers.
> 
> Also, you cannot use the above design and just add another driver. The crossover would have to be redesigned or it would sound terrible.
> 
> You can certainly use the design above but if I were you I would use larger speakers. Sure that 4" one could go down to 80 Hz but there is a big big big difference in how a single 4 can do 80 and how a pair of 6.5 will do it. It really will shock you the amount of difference. If you are going for aesthetics, there are few prettier speakers than the dayton rs150 IMO. Depending on your budget (we could use that figure in helping you pick) a great design to look at would be the nat p for example. There are a number of designs that use that driver but they are a little pricey.


What you say sounds great, except we're back to a big speaker. I'm still after a slim wall mount speaker. Only thing is, I'm sure that I want multiple drivers. Probably 3X 4 1/2" drivers, if possible. I like those ribbon tweeters, also.

Still searching for DIY designs on this...


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## solid7

Yet another design example of what I'm after...

http://www.psbspeakers.com/products/VisionSound/VisionSound-VS300


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## mdrake

These are NICE in-walls http://www.hometheatermag.com/inwallspeakers/606bg/.
Matt


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## solid7

Got a DIY recipe for that one? 

Seriously, that's a bit overboard, but not a bad looking setup. It would be awesome to find a mini version of that. (DIY, of course)

Thanks for the link. It was a very enjoyable read.

Take a look at this - it's getting closer. Line array. I like.

http://www.partsexpress.com/projectshowcase/Kuze3201/Kuze3201.html


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## solid7

There aren't ANY DIY design/builds for wall mount speakers which compliment a flat screen television???


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## mdrake

You might check over at Madisound. They might have a DIY build and I know they used to design custom crossovers. A bunch of Adire Extremis 6.5's and some NEO 8's in a line array would be a fun project. :bigsmile:

Matt


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## JCD

I haven't seen any in particular. I think most folks going for DIY are trying to build something without the compromises inherent with your flat screen type requirements. I think that is likely to change since the flat panels are becoming more and more popular.

JCD


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## solid7

JCD said:


> I haven't seen any in particular. I think most folks going for DIY are trying to build something without the compromises inherent with your flat screen type requirements. I think that is likely to change since the flat panels are becoming more and more popular.
> 
> JCD


I wish and hope that you are right. I see more and more designs like this one everyday in retail stores:

http://www.vienna-acoustics.com/products/Waltz/waltz.php

I would be willing to pioneer such a DIY effort. Although I don't have much knowledge, I don't mind investing the time and money for a project of this nature, given some good technical knowledge from a fellow forum member to back me. This would be worth creating for others who are looking for the same things that I am.

By the way - since I already have a pretty beasty subwoofer, and 7.1 surround, would I be looking to build a midrange configuration? (a midrange array, perhaps?) Or, to put in simple terms that I can actually understand well enough to use, do I really need any low end on a set of mains in HT?


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## mdrake

I was actually in the same boat as you. I was looking for a nice in-wall DIY speaker but gave up and purchased magnepans. Magnepans have there down falls but I hoping with some tweaking I can make them work. I am prepared to add a compression horn driver for HT to get back some of the dynamics the maggies are said to be missing. Although I have not heard the MC1's so I don't know how well they will do in HT but it is one option. 

Matt


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## solid7

DS-21 said:


> I would go with the 6.5" Seas coax and crossover from Madisound, and add a helper woofer or two below it. Possibly Seas ER or Peerless HDS.
> 
> Reasonably compact, not world-beating but with a little bit of crossover finessing probably equivalent to a ~$5000 commercial LCR set.



I'm not sure that I'm seeing which ones you are referring to. Part numbers?

I'd really love to go with 6's, but my TV is mounted at about chest height (center of screen) when I am standing. I am about 6' tall - therefore, it is slightly down angled to the viewer in the seated position. I would like my enclosure to somewhat follow the aesthetic of the flat panel. From top to bottom, I have about 30.5", and with the angle, the TV is about 5" out from the wall at the bottom, and about 10" out from the wall at the top. Not the best working envelope for a quality sound platform, I know, but that's what I've got to work with. I don't want to stick too far off of the wall.

I'm in for a real challenge, right?

By the way, I want to reiterate - I don't need world class sound - I just need to do better than my satellites. (and I'll take as much as I can get above and beyond that)

Thank you.


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## solid7

I also need to get a better education on acoustics and audio design. What is the best reading material for a newbie? What is the best (modern) resource for determining speaker selection? An explanation and description of the pros/cons of different types?

Thank you.


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## JCD

solid7 said:


> I also need to get a better education on acoustics and audio design. What is the best reading material for a newbie? What is the best (modern) resource for determining speaker selection? An explanation and description of the pros/cons of different types?
> 
> Thank you.


re: Acoustics
You can always post a message in out Acoustics subforum. There is also a wealth of information here.

re: Speaker Selection
As for speaker selection, i think I know what you're looking for (pros and cons for the various types of speakers), but I don't think I've ever seen something like that consolodated to one area. If you come across something, please share as I'd like to read it too! The best I could find quickly was on Wikipedia.

JCD


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## mdrake

This thread is a very interesting DIY discussion. I found it very interesting. :R


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## drumdude

This is exactly what I am looking for. I have a pair of speakers hanging and a sub in the Living room, they sound fine for 2-channel music, not great but OK. but they are mounted symetrically in the room and the TV is to the left due to a window dead center of the front wall. When watching TV or movies with the stereo on, the center of the audio image is nowhere near the center of the TV screen. As the quality in my other listening room has improved this has bothered me more and more. I only have about 8 inches of width on each side of the TV for speakers.


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## Jay_WJ

solid7,

I'm new to this forum. I usually hang around at PE board & diyAudio forum. If you look for a multi-driver, cool looking in-wall speaker design. I can design one for you. In fact, designing a crossover of an in-wall speaker system is relatively easy since in most cases we can use driver manufacturer's infinite (or IEC) baffle measurements. No in-box measurement or simulation is needed.

If I were you, I'd consider one of these two designs:

1) Dayton RS125S-8 (or RS150S-8) with Dayton RS28A-4 MTMMM 2.5 way

This design will not only look cool but also sound very clean. The upper two midwoofers will be used as midrange drivers and the bottom two will be used as .5 woofers. You can see the info of these drivers at PE:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-360
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-362
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-130

2) HiVi F5 with RT1C-A MTMMM 2.5 way

This design may be a tiby bit less clean than the above, but will still sound great and look extremely elegant and eye-catching. The same MTMMM driver configuration as above. Drivers are:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-435
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-400

Let me know if you're interested.

-jAy

FYI, here are my speaker building web pages:

http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/


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## fredasiong

Jay_WJ said:


> solid7,
> 
> I'm new to this forum. I usually hang around at PE board & diyAudio forum. If you look for a multi-driver, cool looking in-wall speaker design. I can design one for you. In fact, designing a crossover of an in-wall speaker system is relatively easy since in most cases we can use driver manufacturer's infinite (or IEC) baffle measurements. No in-box measurement or simulation is needed.
> 
> If I were you, I'd consider one of these two designs:
> 
> 1) Dayton RS125S-8 (or RS150S-8) with Dayton RS28A-4 MTMMM 2.5 way
> 
> This design will not only look cool but also sound very clean. The upper two midwoofers will be used as midrange drivers and the bottom two will be used as .5 woofers. You can see the info of these drivers at PE:
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-360
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=295-362
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=275-130
> 
> 2) HiVi F5 with RT1C-A MTMMM 2.5 way
> 
> This design may be a tiby bit less clean than the above, but will still sound great and look extremely elegant and eye-catching. The same MTMMM driver configuration as above. Drivers are:
> 
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-435
> http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=297-400
> 
> Let me know if you're interested.
> 
> -jAy
> 
> FYI, here are my speaker building web pages:
> 
> http://www.geocities.com/woove99/Spkrbldg/


Jay,

What is the possibility of posting a schematic for the above design for dyton rs speakers or pm me.
Thanks


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