# Headphone amps, what's the advantage?



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

So what is the big advantage of using a headphone amp as aposed to simply plugging in the headphones into the receivers headphone output? Do the tube headphone amps sound that much better?


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

It depends. If you have a set of low impedance cans, a dedicated headphone amp will drive them better. Even if your headphones are >150Ω, a dedicated amp is better, but the returns are definitely diminishing. I would say it's only worth the cost if you are _serious_ about headphone listening. If you spent several hundred bucks on your cans, driving them with a circuit that costs about a buck fifty means that you wasted a good bit of cash on the headphones. Of course, not all integrated headphone amps are cheap toss-ins (but most are). Hence, it depends.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I have two pair of AKG headphones, K 141 and K 240
I've been eying this tube headphone amp from parts express but wonder if it's worth it.
https://www.parts-express.com/bravo...s-a-tube-headphone-amplifier-with-eq--310-356


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I probably sound like a broken record....like any outboard amplifier it's worth it if that's what you want but if whatever amplifier you are currently using is loud enough for you there's no (or virtually no) SQ gain to be had by adding an external amplifier.
The AVRs you own are good units and while the parts inside may not be "special" they will certainly be on par with (or better than) the Parts Express products.


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

AKG is one of the brands I had in mind when I mentioned low impedance. At 55Ω, you have cans that would definitely benefit from a dedicated headphone amp, but _not_ that one. At more than twice the price of the unit you mentioned, Creek's OBH-11 ($225) rocks low impedance phones. For a bargain tube amp, I'd consider the HiFiMan EF-2A ($169).

My daughter has a Schiit Valhalla which she uses with her Sennheiser HD800s - great combo. My 'headphones' (the manufacturer prefers the term earspeaker) came with their own 'amp' - Stax Lambda SR. I don't do much headphone listening these days and none of that is 'serious', so a pair of Sennheiser HD598s (daughter's old set) plugged directly into my Marantz PM-11S1 (integrated amp) is _okay_ for me. The big Stax are simply in another league, although my daughter's current setup is incredible as well.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Thanks guys for your thoughts, I've decided that the juice is not worth the squeez as the saying goes. I don't do enough serious listening with headphones to warrant spending $200 on a dedicated headphone amp. The parts exspress on was at a price point that it would have been affordable but if the quality is not there then I won't bother


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

Whatever works for you is the right choice. In my present circumstance, I have no need for idealized headphone performance. It's quite rare that I ever use them (and then, not for serious listening). Because of that, the Stax are packed away in the closet of unused gear. That freed up my 2nd set of speaker outputs for a little pair of JBL monitors at the head of the bed for  music. 

My daughter, on the other hand, uses her cans quite a bit - mostly with the computer setup, which includes various musical instruments and microphones for the acoustic stuff. Man, I wish I had such toys when I was young and dabbling with music - Pro Tools is pretty incredible. This lddude: hasn't minded investing in his younguns' musical enjoyment, expression and experimentation.


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## rab-byte (Feb 1, 2011)

One other less thought about advantage to headphone amps is system integration. I'm moving a little while and I've already started planning out the new room setup. I'll be using zone2 out to a headphone amp next to my sofa. I'll run a hidden stereo pair to the amp from the equipment stack. I'm planning this so I don't have a long cord running across the floor. It should make for quick output switching between speakers and cans. This will be good when I need to quiet down if my wife is studying.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

After some thought and a lot of review reading I am going to get the Bravo V3, I will post a review of my thoughts once I've given it a try and I'm also going to do the mod that allows you to bypass the EQ circuit with a switch. 
There are a few mods that people have done to the V3 that seem to give different results depending on the headphones you use. Most reviews I've read say it's actually a very nice sounding unit. We will see.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

I will be looking forward to your review.

Thanks


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I should have it by next Wednesday so I will report back with my thoughts


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

Do you have a friend with some headphones in the ballpark of 300Ω? If so, ask to borrow them. I should imagine that the V1 and V3 are quite similar - both are 6922 based. The THD spec is more than an order of magnitude (28x) better at 300Ω than at 33Ω - 55Ω is a whole lot closer to the latter than the former. 

I'm definitely curious to read what you have to say about it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

My AKG 141 headphones are 55ohm and so are my other ones. I don't know anyone who has anything better so these will be my test cans.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

I have a couple of headphone amps - nothing expensive - other than some boost for less sensitive / high impedance phones, I admit I have not experienced a noticeable difference vs. a headphone output on an AVR or audio interface. It probably deserves some A-B test time. Not saying there is no difference, just that none has jumped out at me (and that I have not gone looking for it.)


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

Wow, I just noticed something. I thought your moniker was AudioRaver - one who writes enthusiastically about audio topics. I just noticed the little 'c' - you _crave_ audio, eh? I'm with you there, which is why we actually do write enthusiastically about it. 

On the topic of headphone amps, lower impedance cans are where the biggest differences are. It takes more current to drive them and this is why the distortion specs of most headphone amps get pretty bad in the neighborhood of 32Ω. I wouldn't use a pair of lower impedance headphones with my daughter's Valhalla (which is outstanding with 300Ω Sennheiser cans - even better after a bit of tube rolling), and Schitt doesn't recommend doing it either (they have a different product for that). The object of this game is synergy.

I sincerely hope Tony's results are better than I expect and I meant nothing stated here as disrespect.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

I do my share of both craving and raving.

To be honest, I am a bit of an automatic overkill type of enthusiast. Knowing that hearing memory is fallible, I really do try to keep my ears honest with hard proof, AB tests. at cetera, but that kind of proof can be a lot of work and hard to come by. So, without spending ridiculous amounts of cash, and trying to keep a scientific perspective about it, I will splurge a little on gear that could reasonably be expected to give some benefit and will just enjoy having and using it. Sometimes a clear benefit reveals itself, sometimes it does not. When it does, I am not afraid to say so,.and state my evidence supporting it.

I have a few fairly nice phones, and agree with all your engineering reasons for using a decent amp for some of them, just saying that, other than when they were totally under powered and under driven, the benefits have not stood out in a provable or clear-cut way. That said, I like my headphone amps, use them, and I am happy.

An AB test would not be that hard to set up, just have to do it someday.

Also, having heard plenty of systems with poor head room and lack of dynamic range, I tend to take comfort in knowing I have plenty of both. Far from being rigorously scientific, but again it makes me happy.


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## kevin360 (Oct 4, 2012)

'Hard proof' exists in specifications. Good luck finding it via perception, however rigorously applied. The problem with specifications is the numbers game played with them in order to portray a semblance of uniformity. Rigorously gathered data points up a great deal of variability. The problem with perception is that our brains filter, correct, associate, interpret, etc, and it all happens without our awareness, control or permission. Perception is a brier patch.

Hard proof is an admirable, but unobtainable objective. If it makes you happy, what more do you need? That is, after all, what we should be seeking in this enterprise - the enjoyment of music and/or visual entertainment. 

Over the decades, I've owned lots of different speakers and I'm here to tell you that every single one of them was/is flawed in some respect. I thoroughly enjoyed nearly all of them. The Bose 901 (whichever series was current in '81) was probably my biggest disappointment - and I tried every setup imaginable. I've driven many of those speakers with multiple amps. My most recent amplifier change was a few years ago when I replaced my venerable Pass X350 with a VAC Phi 300.1 - solid state to valves. What shocked me at first was the startling similarity between the sound with each amp. Over time I noticed the way certain elements of the sound were, in fact, subtly different. What seemed subtle at first grew to positively salient, so I sold the X350 nine months later (I swapped them back and forth at intervals). Now, can I state that my perceived difference ascended to the level of hard proof? Nah, but I'm a happy listener.

Sorry for digressing this thread so far from its topic, but it can, should and will, no doubt, return to point in a few days - looking forward to it. In the interim, I don't think there's any harm in this little tangent. I haven't owned too many different headphones. I can't remember the model of the first pair I had, but they were rather large and somewhat heavy. I liked them, but I was young and 'developing' (both as a musician and a listener). In the '80s, I invested in a pair of electrostatic earspeakers. They weren't driven by a headphone amp; they were driven by the same amp(s) that drove my speakers (and boy were they revealing of the differences between the amps I owned during my 20-something years of using them). My current cans are the ones I replaced for my daughter - hand me ups. The only dedicated headphone amp I've ever purchased is the one my daughter uses and we both think it was well worth the expense. The engineers are quite clear about matching the right headphones with their amp - low impedance headphones are not recommended.

A filmmaker can assemble a cast of superstars, yet produce a dud of a film - I've seen a few examples.


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