# Surrounds, Inwalls or Dipole's



## mandtra (Aug 30, 2010)

In my dedicated home theater I have Infinity Classia for the front soundstage , and RBH inwalls (A-616 models) for the rears. overall sound is very good but the surrounds could be better , but I just found a great deal on matching Classia C255ESBK dipoles and was thinking of changing them out , or at least trying them out. Do you think they would be a noticeable improvement over what I have installed now , I didn't use dipoles in the build process because i could not afford the $ 500 each for them.

should i change out the RBH A616's for the Infinity Classia C255ESBK Dipoles ???

here is the link to the pics and specs:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...s/38598-forrester-dedicated-home-theater.html


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I really think Dipoles will sound much better than In Walls so I would definitely give them a shot. I am quite fond of Dipoles in general for Surrounds even if both are free standing. Even better, you are matching all the Speakers. I really see no real downsides.
Cheers,
JJ


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

Personally I am not a fan of dipole THX surrounds. A well designed, well placed dipole main speaker IE electrostat or open baffle with the axis aimed towards you, sure, but the THX style surround speakers with the on axis null aimed at you are not imo the correct approach as this is not how movies/music are mixed, nor do these particular speakers normally have balanced timbral response. For all they supposedly add, they take a lot away. The assume all surround effects are rain and crickets, but in my experience surround effects are not only more than that, but not mixed for that type of speaker.

Before you try replacing your surround speakers, I suspect a better move would be to improve the room acoustics.

In other words, add broadband diffusion panels along the back wall and rear side walls, and rear ceiling (to improve the effect of spaciousness), and broadband absorption panels along the front wall (to prevent reflected surround information from coming from the front) - the folks at the room acoustics board can probably help you figure out just how much and where exactly. I think this will really bring your current system to its optimal level - especially if you do this with a measurements approach. This should bring your spaciousness to life while improving clarity.

Now regarding surround speakers, I would personally still be looking at monopole radiators - probably something with very even dispersion in all directions (so not an MTM). This would probably be a relatively nearfield omni like a Linkwitz Pluto / Mirage, or a coax like a Pioneer or KEF.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

If your budget is limited for now, then the first thing I would do - is some
wall treatments. At least, look at some Auralex Studiofoam.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=mi&field-keywords=Auralex+Studiofoam+

I am in the camp - that prefers direct radiating/monopole speakers, for 7.1 surround.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Auralex is expensive and ineffective compared to rigid fiberglass like OC 703. A little elbow grease and some framed OC703 will give you good results for taming reflections.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I realize Dipoles can be polarizing, but I do believe they would sound better than In Walls. I realize that everyone has preferences on Speakers and indeed the natural Dipole Effect of Electrostatic and ESL Hybrid Speakers really is excellent for Surrounds.

When I first got my Vantages, I was using my old Paradigm Studio ADP's. When an opportunity to get a smoking deal on a pair of Vista's, words cannot describe the difference.
Cheers,
JJ


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

eugovector said:


> Auralex is expensive and ineffective compared to rigid fiberglass like OC 703. A little elbow grease and some framed OC703 will give you good results for taming reflections.


I am for the best all around deal - how would this compare to buying 32 Auralex 
panels for $59.00
http://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Studi...UI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?tag=5336055023-20


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

zieglj01 said:


> I am for the best all around deal - how would this compare to buying 32 Auralex
> panels for $59.00
> http://www.amazon.com/Auralex-Studi...UI/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top?tag=5336055023-20


That link is for 32 - 12x12 foam wedges or 32 square feet. You can usually get 6 pieces of 24x48 - 2" OC703 (48 ft2) from a local source for about the same $60 (your mileage may of course vary depending on your location). This even with your finishing (frame and covering fabric), you'll have a less expensive product that works better to boot.

Read up on Owens Corning 703, Rock Wool, Bob's Absorption Coefficients, Super Chunks, and other wonders of the DIY acoustics world to keep you busy. Post in our Acoustics section as you get specific questions.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

eugovector said:


> That link is for 32 - 12x12 foam wedges or 32 square feet. You can usually get 6 pieces of 24x48 - 2" OC703 (48 ft2) from a local source for about the same $60 (your mileage may of course vary depending on your location). This even with your finishing (frame and covering fabric), you'll have a less expensive product that works better to boot.
> Read up on Owens Corning 703, Rock Wool, Bob's Absorption Coefficients, Super Chunks, and other wonders of the DIY acoustics world to keep you busy. Post in our Acoustics section as you get specific questions.


My room is already treated - this is all for the OP, to consider for his room.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

I don't think I would do either the Auralex or the OC703 in OP's room - at least not for the scenario i'm describing.

What OP is looking for is lots of surround spaciousness.

this would be obtained by QRD diffuser panels as far as I know. The aurelex foam does not seem to have the bandwidth and appears to be absorptive and the OC703 is of course going to deaden the room - the opposite of the goal!

Perhaps Absorption at bass traps (corners) and potentially first reflection points, but not at the back of the room, where we want a diffuse, lifelike sound.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

GranteedEV said:


> I don't think I would do either the Auralex or the OC703 in OP's room - at least not for the scenario i'm describing.
> 
> What OP is looking for is lots of surround spaciousness.
> 
> ...


Yes, but absorption was recommended for the front wall. Too bad there isn't an inexpensive DIY option for diffusion yet.


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## GranteedEV (Aug 8, 2010)

eugovector said:


> Yes, but absorption was recommended for the front wall. Too bad there isn't an inexpensive DIY option for diffusion yet.


QRD panels can be done with wood - i have seen diy builds online. The only thing is that preferably a cnc is used to make the cuts.


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