# Fisher Theater Rebuild



## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Howdy - been a lurker here for a while learning and getting ready :nerd:

My wife and I plan to update our current "theater" into a real one. We have a basement (very rare in NC) that we're currently using, but plan to completely refresh it (go from a big-screen TV to projector, etc).

Here is an image of my plans. The walls in yellow will need to be built (they aren't there now).

99% of the time, it's the wife and I and the kids... but we do entertain for football, etc. We don't want traditional theater seating - we want our couch, etc.

I'm very comfortable with DIY... I rewired our existing home to implement a security system, automation, UPB lighting, automated 3 zone HVAC, etc.

We have several problems with our layout - would love to get some feedback.

1) Top left corner of the image - we have a bathroom here. There is no real way to change entry to it - so the screen/speakers need to be offset some to allow easy access. Anybody have another idea?

2) the walls are currently wood paneling. When we have the 2 new walls built, we are planning to have them sheetrock over the paneling using green glue in between. Is that sufficient? or do I need to rip out the old paneling and replace? Cost goes up dramatically... we figure we can add the sheetrock and good quality sound panels for less. Our construction guy says he can leave all the drop ceiling in place if he adds sheetrock on top... but if we rip out, he needs to redo the drop ceiling too.

3) the left wall has concrete behind it, all the rest are interior (and insulated). I've read here where ideally you want them all the same but it would be really hard to change this. Any easy recommendations - should I put more insulation in, etc?

4) The ceiling is a good heavy drop ceiling (just under 8 feet (95")). It's white... I was thinking about spray painting each of the tiles flat black... anybody have success doing this?

5) Any early planning steps I should be focused on? With the drop ceiling, wiring will be easy after the fact. So my focus now is getting the base room construction completed... anything else important I should be paying attention to?

Thanks in advance!


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## kepople (Sep 19, 2008)

I am no expert and probably cannot answer your specific questions, but after looking at your plan, is the office locked in at that location?

Seems like if you were to do something different with the office, maybe even go so far as to remove the wall, and make it open to the theater, you would have an easier time with the build. If there was a way to flip it, and make the office back by the bathroom you could have an open kids play area at the back of the theater which could be incorporated into the theater later when the kids dont need the play area. put a bar back there later.

just some ideas. one other, if you plan on acoustic panels, the door to the play are looks to be right about where you will be needing one.

kirby


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Interesting ideas. I'll have to look into how hard it would be to take out the office wall(s). I'm not opposed to moving the office - it's just a home office that I work out of (no clients visit it).

Thanks for the ideas, I'll need to do some homework.


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## kepople (Sep 19, 2008)

_Posted via Mobile Device_

What are the dimensions on the existing office?

FYI: I wanted couches wide wanted theater seating. She won and I am glad. We have 4 seats and a couple bean bag chairs for the kids to lounge on. 

Kirby


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

existing office is about 10x15. If we knocked down the wall, it would be offset some (making a room 24' long with a width of around 10'...) unless we knocked down a couple walls to make it wider too.

My wife is the one who wants the couch - she loves laying down when we watch stuff. I'll keep working on her but I know my limits


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## Space (Jul 18, 2007)

"3) the left wall has concrete behind it, all the rest are interior (and insulated). I've read here where ideally you want them all the same but it would be really hard to change this. Any easy recommendations - should I put more insulation in, etc?"

More sheetrock, another layer might help.


"4) The ceiling is a good heavy drop ceiling (just under 8 feet (95")). It's white... I was thinking about spray painting each of the tiles flat black... anybody have success doing this?"

Several things come to me. Painting the tiles will actually make them more reflective as you seal up the tiles ability to absorb.

Also, Developing high grade isolation in your walls with expensive materials can all go down the toilet with a drop ceiling.

The reason is that sound will take the path of least resistance, especially the lower frequencies, and go right over the heavy walls into the ceiling and be free to travel in the ceiling cavity looking for another room to bother...or the upstairs area through the floor.


Good luck,

Brien


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Making some good progress! Construction has been going on for the last week and a half and nearing completion.

- We added a layer of sheetrock with green glue to the entire theater and kids play area. 
- Upgraded the doors to good solid doors
- Removed ceiling lighting, etc.

WOW! My office is very quiet now! My wife was in the kids play area and with the doors closed, you could barely hear her when she was talking very loudly. Nice  

I met with a acoustics person and they recommended a sound barrier (I believe it is mass loaded vinyl but not positive) on top of the drop ceiling. We'll be working on that once the construction is done (I'll need to reinforce the drop ceiling support structure to handle the heavy weight). She said our drop ceiling was actually very good - one of the best she's seen ("they don't make them like that any more!")

So now I'm working on determining screen/projectors. Leaning towards a 2.35:1 with an anamorphic lens. My concern now is speaker placement. I did a quick "mock-up" of the finished wall (ignore my lack of art skills, and this pic was taken before the second layer of sheetrock/doors hung, etc... but everything is to scale (125" screen diagonal))... my speakers will be on the edge of the screen frame (if I go with the planned screen). Any thoughts? I think it will work OK. I know the right speaker is less than ideal in the corner.

The right wood column has to be there (structural)... so we're incorporating the look and adding a couple more (the one on the left will be for decoration only). The screen will "float" between the two (they come out about 3" into the room).

Next actions:
- finish construction, carpet, electrical, painting
- hardware determination (screen/projector, probably upgrade speakers/amp)
- ceiling sound isolation
- acoustic panels determination

Feedback welcome


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

If I've read your drawing correctly, your front wall is 11' wide between the door and the right side wall..
I would be inclined to reduce the width of your screen slightly, to allow the speakers to move away from the sidewall and door a bit more..
Also, if that's a 125" diagonal screen in the image area, then making your borders a little bit narrower will give you a bit more image area..unless that's just a representation of the border and not the actual width your planning on..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

thanks - I should reupdate my drawing now that the wall is built. We squeezed out a few more inches - so that wall is 11'6".

I'm not sure the screen I'll be using yet - I just picked that one off the Elite website and stretched it so it was matched the length/width on their website. The border does look pretty thick in that image - but I'm not sure what it will be in real-life (and I dont' know what screen I'm going to use yet).

I've been reading a LOT in these forums about screens (which is why I'm going for the 2.35 with anamorphic lens) so I'm still working on the details for that. I don't have a projector yet either so I have all my options open


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> I've been reading a LOT in these forums about screens (which is why I'm going for the 2.35 with anamorphic lens) so I'm still working on the details for that. I don't have a projector yet either so I have all my options open


Bare in mind that the recommended viewing distance for CIH with Anamorphic lens is approx.3 times the height of the screen..particularly for 1080p..
From that you can determine your max. screen width and seating position for the front row..
When you have that worked out, you then need to calculate what your 16:9 image size will be, and look for a projector that will fit your positioning and image size with zero zoom..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Thanks. My sitting position is ~180" away... which means screen height of 60" (which yields a screen of 138"). This is bigger than what I was planning - not sure it will work :unbelievable:

I was thinking about a screen of 125"... maybe we'll need to move the couch just a bit closer 

I could fit a bigger screen - but would need smaller L/R speakers (to fit under the screen itself). Ahhh... decisions (opinions welcome  )

Since I'm asking Qs... thoughts about the projector mounting? In my mind I was thinking about a 3/4 box (back and sides enclosed) to help hide the projector and lens. I figure by leaving the front open, it should cool OK. I think this might be cleaner look rather than a pole mount. Projector would be mounted above the couch area (my current plan).

thanks


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> I was thinking about a screen of 125"... maybe we'll need to move the couch just a bit closer


I would stay with the smaller screen and move your seating forward a bit..




> Since I'm asking Qs... thoughts about the projector mounting? In my mind I was thinking about a 3/4 box (back and sides enclosed) to help hide the projector and lens. I figure by leaving the front open, it should cool OK. I think this might be cleaner look rather than a pole mount. Projector would be mounted above the couch area (my current plan).
> thanks


That will depend on whether you plan to have a DLP or LCD projector..
A DLP doesn't generally give you a lot of choice with mounting position and you may find that even with a projector box, it may need to be suspended from the ceiling..which defeats the purpose of not have a pole mount..
LCD on the other hand does give more flexibility with the lens shift adjustment, so you would be able to mount a box to the ceiling...

Are you planning on getting a projector with vertical stretch facility, or are you looking at an external scaler?


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Thanks Prof! At this time, I have neither the projector or the screen - so my options are totally open. I have no preference (yet) between DLP or LCD and will pick whichever works best for my needs (more reading!!)

I planned (hoped) to get one with vertical stretch built-in. Based on what I've read so far, it appears there are quite a few good options that do that. You have some thoughts/recommendations? (both the LCD/DLP (sounds like LCD is better choice for this) as well as built-in VS)


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> Thanks Prof! At this time, I have neither the projector or the screen - so my options are totally open. I have no preference (yet) between DLP or LCD and will pick whichever works best for my needs (more reading!!)
> 
> I planned (hoped) to get one with vertical stretch built-in. Based on what I've read so far, it appears there are quite a few good options that do that. You have some thoughts/recommendations? (both the LCD/DLP (sounds like LCD is better choice for this) as well as built-in VS)


Bruce,

I can only give you my biased opinion when it comes to projectors!
I'm a DLP man through and through..and my recommendations on that basis would be the Benq W5000..
It has VS and lens shift (the only one with lens shift that I know of) and an excellent image..
That would be my first choice for Anamorphic projection..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

excellent - I will look into that one closely! Quick search turns up that it's a good value too


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Been researching... my eyes are bleeding from all the reading 

I think I'm changing gears a bit and am considering acoustically transparent. As noted above, my right corner is not good for tower speakers... and moving them in dramatically reduces the screen size. So I'm considering AT!

As noted, my room isn't setup for AT... I have a bathroom (and door) to the left of my screen) that I can't change. However, the brown columns in the picture have to be there (structural). They are about 6" into the room.

My thoughts are to mount the screen on the columns - and use smaller on-wall speakers behind it. After some research, I found these by Axiom with many good reviews. They are thin enough that they will fit in the gap created by my columns without a problem.

I called Axiom to discuss my plans - and their feedback was that for a room that size I probably should double them - 2 L, 2 R, and 2 C. Makes sense - and doesn't break my bank  I need a good sub or two to go with them... Looking at driving them with the Emotiva or Outlaw amps... should be able to handle them in parallel I believe (I need to verify that).

So that's the latest after 3 days of intense research. Looking for someone to say "ummm... what about" or "don't do it" or "makes sense!"

I also posted in the anamorphic subforum in case anyone is interested about my plans for the screen/projector/lens.

Thanks!


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Iteration #113

OK, I believe I've figured out my system... now to order it!

The basic changes is that I will be using a regular 2.35 screen (probably buy an Elite) and locate 3 LCR speakers (leaning towards Emotiva, Hsu, or Elemental) under the screen. I have spoken with the vendors and they feel it will work well for their speakers. Been reading everything I can find on these three... I'm leaning towards Emotiva because I like their side/surrounds the best (I think) plus I'm hoping to get their amps, etc.

Planning a SVS column sub (probably the PC13-Ultra or PC12-Plus) (although I consider 2 PC12-NSD's... still an option).

Not the perfect setup due to the room limitations... but I suspect this will still be a fine theater when done 

Construction and electrical are done. Painting is done. Carpet install happens Monday. Time for my fun... wiring and buying!


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

What is the room like are there any alternative areas you could use so that the front of the room would not have the doors? edit: I see your going to redo walls but it's still something to maybe think about.


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

the floorplan is in the first post above. The only wall that doesn't really have a door is the one that borders the office. This is how we oriented it before this rebuild - but it is narrow this way which doesn't work well for us to entertain large crowds (we regularly host Panthers football game viewing with 8-12 people, etc). By making it the long way, we can fit more people comfortably and have a bigger screen.

Unfortunately it's not ideal or perfect - but it's much better than what we've had before


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> The basic changes is that I will be using a regular 2.35 screen (probably buy an Elite) and locate 3 LCR speakers (leaning towards Emotiva, Hsu, or Elemental) under the screen.


Just one thing Bruce..(to throw another spanner in the works!!)..When using CIH in an anamorphic projection set up..the screen needs to have an aspect ratio of at least 2.37:1..not 2.35:1..
Some (like myself) even go to 2.39:1..the cinemascope standard..

Most major screen companies now provide AR's suitable for CIH projection..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

thanks for the catch. I'll double check the math before I buy. All the vendors I've looked at say 2.35 but found 1 or 2 that say it's really 2.39 or 2.40 but the "convention" is 2.35 so that's how they list it.

I am considering putting the LCR's on their ends rather than horizontal. I've read a few comments about "lobing"... seems to me at 15' away that wouldn't be an issue but maybe... I'll experiment.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> thanks for the catch. I'll double check the math before I buy. All the vendors I've looked at say 2.35 but found 1 or 2 that say it's really 2.39 or 2.40 but the "convention" is 2.35 so that's how they list it.


To calculate the aspect ratio for a CIH screen...
1.78 x 1.33 (the HE with lens in place)= 2.37



> I am considering putting the LCR's on their ends rather than horizontal. I've read a few comments about "lobing"... seems to me at 15' away that wouldn't be an issue but maybe... I'll experiment.


It looks like the Emotiva's will fit under the screen in the vertical position, so that would be a better way of positioning them..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

i looked through all the screen vendors info - they all list their screens as 2.35. I guess I'll need to do the math to see if any are really 2.37 

also - I discussed with emotiva the speakers and they agreed - probably better vertical for the 2 sides (tweeters on outside), but not an issue if they are horizontal. One reason I like them vertical is that I can put 1 or 2 of my subs up front versus trying to fit both in the room inconspicuously 

thanks!


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

I was thinking about my projector today and how to mount it. I know most people just use a simple mount - leaving the projector sitting upside down at the bottom of a pole. I am wondering about building a 2 sided box to hang from the ceiling to hide it a little (plus hide the anamorphic lens, etc)... leave the front and rear open for airflow.

I searched on the web and this is something like what I pictured...

any thoughts? Planning to use a BenQ W5000 - can it handle being mounted right side up near the ceiling? Looking at the manual, it doesn't appear to like it...


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> I was thinking about my projector today and how to mount it. I know most people just use a simple mount - leaving the projector sitting upside down at the bottom of a pole. I am wondering about building a 2 sided box to hang from the ceiling to hide it a little (plus hide the anamorphic lens, etc)... leave the front and rear open for airflow.
> 
> I searched on the web and this is something like what I pictured...
> 
> any thoughts? Planning to use a BenQ W5000 - can it handle being mounted right side up near the ceiling? Looking at the manual, it doesn't appear to like it...


Bruce,

I think there might be a problem mounting it like that near the ceiling..
Even though the W5000 has lens shift, it may not be able to move the image that far down..

Mark would know more about that since he has one..

If it won't shift the image far enough, then the other alternative would be to mount the projector upside down in the box, using spacers underneath to keep the projector off the bottom..to allow for good air flow..
I've seen that done in another installation..


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## thewire (Jun 28, 2007)

Bruce Fisher said:


> I was thinking about my projector today and how to mount it. I know most people just use a simple mount - leaving the projector sitting upside down at the bottom of a pole. I am wondering about building a 2 sided box to hang from the ceiling to hide it a little (plus hide the anamorphic lens, etc)... leave the front and rear open for airflow.
> 
> I searched on the web and this is something like what I pictured...
> 
> any thoughts? Planning to use a BenQ W5000 - can it handle being mounted right side up near the ceiling? Looking at the manual, it doesn't appear to like it...


I have a Benq w5000. It can can be mounted near the ceiling but the vents on the sides will make it less than ideal for a box. There is no real good reason to use a box unless your intention is to hide it out of site or reduce noise but in some circumstances the Benq w5000 would be more quiet than your rooms ambient noise. I believe it somewhere near 25dB in whisper mode. The only time I hear it is with the high altitude mode on. In this case using the adjacent room (lobby) would work best but you will end up having to need a hole in the room which would not be good for acoustics as would placing a closet for the projector unless you put lots of effort and money into it. Because of the lens on the Benq it is best to use minimal lens shift but mounting closer to the ceiling can also improve the image depending on which screen you end up with. The higher gain screen you use and the closer it is mounted to the screen the longer you can have a brighter image and the lower the gain the higher you may need to run the projector and the less time you may get out of the lamp. There is also the sweet spot for which to to mount it. It depends on what your definition of a reference image is and what you consider image quality.

Also.... earlier I hope that it did not seem implied that I was suggesting you use the short distance in the room as length. I would only suggest that under "special circumstances".


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

thanks for the info guys - that was my expectation. As is typical for this project, time to change my plans 

My goal for the box was just to make it less visibly noticeable (projector plus anamorphic lens is not real attractrive). I think I'll just start out simple and see where it goes. thanks


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Been a little bit since I posted - time for a quick update 

We have the carpet installed, walls painted (although we need to go in and finish the trim work), sconce lights installed (but I need to move 1... grrrrr).

I finally settled on my strategy. Acoustically Transparent screen (Seymour), 2.37 format, BenQ W5000, Aussiemorph lens. Emotiva speakers, processor (when released), amps. SVS subs (although now I may wait for Emotiva's new subs which are coming soon).

I purchased Emotiva speakers. I went for (3) 6.3s for LCR and (4) ERD1s for surround. I also purchased the XPA-5 for my main amp (5x200) and UPA-2 for side speakers (125x2) (not sure I'll keep the UPA-2, I may upgrade to the XPA-3 (3x200) so I have 200 per channel all the way around.

I set them up temporarily last night just to hear them - and they sound really good. I haven't fully tested them yet - I have some work to do yet before I'm totally ready.

I am currently finishing up all the wiring (speakers, sources, pj, etc). Once that's done, I will install a sound barrier on my drop ceiling. I bought it last week - my poor car... 660 lbs of material. Basically I was told to place pink insulation on the drop ceiling and then unroll this on top of it (don't want the barrier right on the ceiling). Going to be a pretty big (and heavy) job... plus I need to reinforce my drop ceiling (I was told I probably don't, but I'm nervous so it's worth an extra day of work to make sure my ceiling doesn't come crashing down on me!)

Attached are a few updated pictures  I don't plan on keeping the folding table speaker shelf... just most convenient last night


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Looking good Bruce..

When those amps and subs are fired up..I would be making very sure that the ceiling is securely attached..:hsd: :bigsmile:


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Been busy working on the theater - time for a quick update!

Near completion of "phase 1"... the room itself. Carpet, extra layer of sheetrock with green glue, additional wall, heavy solid doors, finishing tiling the floor (entry/"bar" area). Still working on wiring and touching up paint.

I ran 3 combo wires (dual quad-shield RG6; dual Cat5e) (the heavy blue wires behind the equipment rack) from my automation closet to my theater closet. This gives me total flexibility. Using some of the coax as "long distance" (~70') RCA cables for my audio sources (right now only connected to my audio server). Cat5e is for automation status (power on, 12v triggers, etc), cat5e for IR, cat5e for networking (PS3, SageTV (distributes my HDTV throughout the house)).

I still need to run my 7 speaker wires and 3-4 potential subwoofer locations.

Then I can finish Phase 1... the ceiling. I have almost 700 pounds of Noise Barrier to install on top of my drop ceiling... for both my office and the theater. Both to keep noise out and keep it in (reduce transmission to other areas)

Phase 2 will be next... audio treatments (front wall behind the screen, reflection points) and prep for phase 3.

Then Phase 3 - the projector/screen.

While I'm working in the theater, I set up a temporary speaker setup. These Emotiva speakers are awesome... highly recommended! Combined with the amp - they just sound right - very clean and clear, dynamic... very happy with that purchase. I've tested them with lots of material... jazz, blues, rock - it sounds great with them all. I keep turning them up louder and louder while working and then stopping to listen to a song or two. They are that good... make me stop what I'm doing just to listen to a song. A few minutes ago - it was a live version of Stevie Ray Vaughn playing "Tin Pan Alley". And now it's Eric Clapton's "My Fathers Eyes". good stuff!

They won't stay on these stands (those are for speakers in my den - but this took higher priority!  ) The speakers will be put on shelves on my wall behind the screen (when I get that far). The sub is just a cheap 10" Dayton sub I had in my office. Will be adding different subs when the theater is ready (hoping for Emotiva's new subs when they are ready)

One design change - I decided to add a black curtain in front of the screen. I will use it to mask the screen width (when switching from 2.35 to 16:9 for HDTV) and to cover the screen when not in use. Researching that now... if anyone knows of some good acoustically transparent black blackout cloth or automated curtains - let me know! :bigsmile:

That's it for now :jump:

<edit: no, that's not me in the picture  Thats the wife >


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## rickp (Jan 14, 2008)

Looking very good!


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

Progression is looking simply awesome!!! I wish I had a basement to dedicate as a theater room! Very, VERY cool


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Getting ready to add noise improvements above the drop ceiling. Bought 12 rolls of Quiet Batt and about 700 pounds of noise barrier. But before I can start this, I need to finish up my wiring.

Below is my updated floor plan with what I'm guessing are locations for noise panels (blue rectangles with numbers next to them). In addition to the 6 spots, I'm wondering about 7 and 8 (below my side speakers). The speakers look right when I hold them up at about 6 feet. The panels I've been looking at (Gik) are 4' tall... and there should be room behind the couches to fit these panels.

<edit: there is room under the window to the left side of 3 in case I should put a Bass TriTrap there instead >

So my new Q's (I've exchanged several PMs with Bryan already, but this seems like a good spot for forum Q's):

1) I haven't done any testing but just looking to cover large spots of walls. I don't need to make final decisions now, but for starters is this appropriate?

2) thoughts about installing panels below side/rear speakers (mount speakers higher than the panel)? Spots 5 and 6 seem like great spots for panels. Assuming yes, any issues with mounting the rear speakers above the panels (ie 6' up)? (My rears/sides are Emotiva ERD1) I need to know this answer so I can wire those speakers  ) Or would I use diffusors (such as Gik D1) instead?

3) What about areas 9 and 10 (above the two couches)? I could mount the panels on their side (so they are horizontal instead of vertical. Any benefit?

4) Bryan recommended I cover the front wall with absorption (since my front speakers will be mounted close to the wall (sealed speakers - Emotiva 6.3s)). Since my main speakers won't be more than 4' off the floor - do I just mount the panels horizontal on their side? Or is there something else I should use (such as acoustical foam products which I could cut to fit the shape I need)?

Just trying to prevent putting speakers in spots that I'll later regret... :wits-end: My current plan is to mount the side and rear speakers 6' off the floor... this gives me room below them and also looks good to the eye.

Thanks! :bigsmile:


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> > 1) I haven't done any testing but just looking to cover large spots of walls. I don't need to make final decisions now, but for starters is this appropriate?
> 
> 
> Bruce..I'm probably going to upset you now, but I have to say that it's not really appropriate..:no:.
> ...


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Hehe - no, I'm not upset or offended... if I was worried about that, I surely wouldn't be posting here for everyone to see and criticize  We knew this wasn't going to be the perfect installation - we have many issues to deal with. Our goal was always to get the best we could with the limitations we have.

I hadn't thought about the back area being an echo chamber... that's a very good point. A bit late now with the hard floor (We plan to have a throw rug there, but it's still a hard floor under it). My thought was it wouldn't be too big of a deal since it's just rear speakers - you don't need to pinpoint locate where they are - they are just for effect. Didn't think about it being echo'y back there though...

I will likely go ahead and still install the rear speakers back there (I already have them) but as noted, they may not be ideal. I'll have to think about other options before I get too far on that...

For the glass doors on the front left side of the room, we're putting back up some very heavy curtains (not currently there - we took them down while we are working). I figured this is about the best we can do for that location.

For the right side first reflection point, I'm fine with mounting a panel on the door. I was wondering about that being the first reflection... again - not much I can do about it so we'll minimize the impact best we can. I've been wondering if I should mount a panel on that side since the left won't have one (just the curtains). Will it cause the sound to be "asymmetric" causing it to sound worse than if I just didn't do anything there?

For the front wall - you mention covering it with acoustic insulation - do you have anything specific in mind? This is what I'm picturing... is this like what you mean? Maybe I should cover my echo chamber area with this stuff too 

As always, thanks for the feedback and ideas!


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> For the glass doors on the front left side of the room, we're putting back up some very heavy curtains (not currently there - we took them down while we are working). I figured this is about the best we can do for that location.


Heavy curtains will help to some degree, but not as effective as an acoustic panel..

I used to have heavy curtains at the sides where first reflection occurs..and when I took them down and replaced them with panels, I noticed the difference immediately..

Could you not fit a panel behind the curtain?...or do you need daylight from that part of the glass area.?



> For the right side first reflection point, I'm fine with mounting a panel on the door. I was wondering about that being the first reflection... again - not much I can do about it so we'll minimize the impact best we can. I've been wondering if I should mount a panel on that side since the left won't have one (just the curtains). Will it cause the sound to be "asymmetric" causing it to sound worse than if I just didn't do anything there?


I would still put one there..even if you don't have one on the other side..It will all help..
The only difference you might hear with just one, is that the clarity of projected sound and sound that passes from front to back..will have a smoother transition of sound on the right side..



> For the front wall - you mention covering it with acoustic insulation - do you have anything specific in mind? This is what I'm picturing... is this like what you mean? Maybe I should cover my echo chamber area with this stuff too


That material would be ideal..but probably an expensive way of doing it..
Alternatively, you could just use some OC-705 and cover it with some black open weave cloth..and doing the walls in the lobby area would certainly help..

Oh..and also putting down a heavy rug on that floor is a must!


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Prof. said:


> Could you not fit a panel behind the curtain?...or do you need daylight from that part of the glass area.?


I haven't used panels before - is it OK to just rest a panel against the glass? That way when we do open the curtains (when the theater is not being used), we can just move the panel? And when we watch a movie, just move the panel back in place?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> I haven't used panels before - is it OK to just rest a panel against the glass? That way when we do open the curtains (when the theater is not being used), we can just move the panel? And when we watch a movie, just move the panel back in place?


That would be fine..:T
I would suggest that you make your panel 4' high and the width of the glass panel..but don't forget to check first, where exactly your first reflection point is..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Haven't done much the last couple weeks... combination of work and vacation. Should be getting back to it this week 

I am almost done insulating above the drop ceiling... QuietBatt and NoiseBarrier - awesome combination. Amazing how much better the room sounds with just this and the greenglue/2nd layer drywall.

Made some purchases - waiting for arrivals:
- Screen - Seymour AV's new fixed frame. 130" wide (will cover the wall from bathroom door to corner)

- Projector - BenQ W5000 (hehe - arrived while I was typing this post! Sweet!)

- Anamorphic Lens - HTB. This is a change... started getting nervous about the amount of money being spent and opted for a lower cost option. Their pre-sales support has been outstanding, and I can upgrade later if I feel I need to.

So I am currently trying to figure out what acoustic treatment to apply to the front wall... would like to install it prior to installing the screen (just to make it easier on me  ) My thought is that since it's going to be mostly hidden by the screen - foam makes a lot of sense (cost/performance).

If I go foam - recommendations? This is what I'm leaning towards... 3" thick in charcoal.

I considered using sound panels but don't think they will work for me to completely cover the front wall. With the foam, I think I should be able to fit them in better and cut the foam as needed to ensure it covers the wall fully. Anybody work with foam to know if will allow me to do that? Not sure yet how it's applied to the wall either.


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Change in plans for the front wall... switching from foam to fiberglass. Planning to use 705 on the entire wall and cover it with black material.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Should be very effective..:T


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

This weekend's focus is the front wall. Need to mount the speakers, prepare for the (130"x55") Acoustically Transparent Screen (SeymourAV), and to cover it with noise absorbing material (ATS Rigid Fiberglass Board (equivalent of Owens 703)) and black microsuede fabric.

Attached is an image of my plans for the front wall (sorry, the picture was a big crooked when I took it).
- the two orange rectangles are the 16:9 and 2.35 image sizes
- eye/ear height when sitting is labeled
- black squares are where I have my speakers planned (they are symmetric with the screen, but the crooked image makes it look wrong)

My thoughts/questions/unsures...
- screen height. I found somewhere you want the eye height to be about 1/3 up from bottom of screen. Sound about right? That only leaves about 10" between top of screen and ceiling (and about 26" from bottom of screen to floor). As noticed, my ceiling is white (may change it later... can only do so much at once) so I figure I will have some reflected light. Should I lower the screen some?

- Speaker height. I have the speakers set about the same - ears are about 1/3 up from the bottom of the speakers. Should I lower them so they are centered with ear height?

- Speaker separation - currently about 94" between center of speakers. Seating distance will be about 180" away. I can seperate the speakers a little bit more - but can't quite get it the same as the distance to the seating. Should I move them as far out as I can?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> My thoughts/questions/unsures...
> - screen height. I found somewhere you want the eye height to be about 1/3 up from bottom of screen. Sound about right? That only leaves about 10" between top of screen and ceiling (and about 26" from bottom of screen to floor). As noticed, my ceiling is white (may change it later... can only do so much at once) so I figure I will have some reflected light. Should I lower the screen some?


My screen is also 26" up from the floor to the bottom of the image..and I find that height ideal..
With the screen only 10" down from the ceiling, you will get a lot of light reflection off the ceiling, but lowering it a few more inches isn't going to help any..

If you don't want to paint the whole ceiling a dark colour, then you could just have a black velvet covered panel fixed to the ceiling.. the width of the screen and extending about 3' out from the screen..
That would help considerably in reducing ceiling reflection..



> - Speaker height. I have the speakers set about the same - ears are about 1/3 up from the bottom of the speakers. Should I lower them so they are centered with ear height?


With an AT screen , it's best to have the speakers centred within the height of the screen..



> - Speaker separation - currently about 94" between center of speakers. Seating distance will be about 180" away. I can seperate the speakers a little bit more - but can't quite get it the same as the distance to the seating. Should I move them as far out as I can?


The current distance between the speakers is fine..
What you can do with that size screen..using anamorphic projection.. is to move your seating in as close as 135"..
Recommended viewing distance for Scope screens is 2.5 times the height of the screen..Some even sit closer!!.:T


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Prof. said:


> If you don't want to paint the whole ceiling a dark colour, then you could just have a black velvet covered panel fixed to the ceiling.. the width of the screen and extending about 3' out from the screen..
> That would help considerably in reducing ceiling reflection..


I was wondering about that! My wife and I were talking today about the options and that was one consideration... in fact I was thinking about actually doing that with sound panels so it would/might provide some sonic improvement as well!


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Yes..It's an ideal way of resolving both light and sound reflection at the same time..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Didn't get as much done as I hoped this weekend... took more time than I expected. :scratchhead:

I got the speaker platforms built and the screen brackets built - and both mounted. I still need to go back and touch up the screw heads so they don't reflect back through the screen.

The top screen brackets will hold the screen mounting "hangman" brackets (the screen slides into the hangman). I don't have the bottom supports installed yet - waiting for the screen to arrive (Thursday) just to be sure i get them at the right height.

In addition to this - I have finished painting all the border wood flat black. Next up is to install the border material all the way around the open areas, then mount the acoustic material, then fit the black material over it all, staple it in place to the border, and then put the top border on it to cover up all the staples. Makes me tired just thinking about it! :whew:

Screen arrives Thursday. I was hoping to be ready but I won't be. Hopefully this weekend I'll be ready for it...

(oh yeah, I did get the side and rear speakers installed and connected and tested. Some progress :yay2: )


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Slowly but surely..:T


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## jvcustom (Mar 17, 2009)

looks great! i love the wood pillars.


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Made some progress this weekend. Took me longer than expected but I don't want to rush and screw up now...

Spent a lot of time researching subwoofers. Ended up purchasing an Elemental Designs A5-350 subwoofer. Should be here tomorrow. Decided to start with 1 and add another if needed later.

Worked on insulating the front wall. Not done yet - but getting there. First image is of the insulation pre-covering. Second is after I covered it with acoustical microfiber suede in black. The picture doesn't look nearly as good as it does in person (can't see any of the wrinkles that show up in the picture). The black is real deep black - looks real nice! (I still need to put my finishing black strips around the border on that section)

Now I'm worried about my wood columns... hopefully they won't reflect through the screen. They look awesome in real-life but I won't be happy if they "bleed" through. If they do, I'll put the black fabric over them (at least where visible through the screen).

Two more areas on the front wall to insulate... then the fun starts - time to install the screen and PJ and calibrate!  I'll start looking into REW once I get to that point. :nerd:


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> Now I'm worried about my wood columns... hopefully they won't reflect through the screen. They look awesome in real-life but I won't be happy if they "bleed" through. If they do, I'll put the black fabric over them (at least where visible through the screen).


You might see them a bit with the normal room lighting, and particularly if you're having downlights above the screen.. but when projecting, I don't think you will..
As you say, you can always cover them if need be..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Made some good progress this week (wife/kids out of town :yes

Received my Elemental Designs A5-350 sub. Wow - what a beast. Words can't describe how much better everything sounds with it. I expected a big improvement for movies, but not as much with music (since I already had a sub in use). Wow - adds such depth to music - awesome. (that's just temporary speaker setup so I can listen to music while working...)

Also added some behind the screen lighting (not for when watching movies, but general lighting). Went to IKEA and bought their Dioder sticks. Those things are awesome. Settled on the blue but I can change them at a click of a button to red, green, purple, white, etc. (I know the right one is crooked, they are just set in place until I finish insulating the wall).

Finished insulating the wall. Today will be covering the front two sections with the black material. I'm amazed at the blue image of the Dioder lighting... the area already covered is like a black hole. Awesome stuff. Definitely need to consider adding sound panels with this material on my ceiling!

Getting close. After finishing the black covering up front, I need to put the covering black wood trim (borders), mount screen and projector, and trim out the wiring in the theater closet. Hopefully 1-2 days and I'll be able to test some video! :yay2:


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Nice looking sub Bruce..and obviously sounds nice as well..:T

What are Dioder sticks..I've never heard of them.?


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Here's a link to the Dioder sticks. About $50 for 4 sticks (I used 3 boxes ($150)). What is cool is they can plug right into themselves to make them longer, or use their extensions to move them away. They are LEDs so they use hardly any electricity and stay nice and cool. And they can change colors by pushing the button - no more rewiring work to change the look 

You can see in the first attachment the connection wires (at top and bottom). And then the second picture is with the room lights off, just the Dioders on.

I'll have these lights plugged into my UPB network (automates the lighting in the house) so I can remotely turn them on/off at any time without having to get up.

Finished the front wall last night - looks better than I hoped! (rare!) Today is a big day, move the front speakers in place, finish the wiring (infrared, networking, etc), and then mount the screen and test it!


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Well ya live and learn.!! :reading:

I just looked up our Ikea catalogue and sure enough, we have the same units here!..only our pack of four costs $99.00!!
Still, handy to know..and I might look further into that a bit later..Thanks for the info..:T

The front wall is taking shape nicely..:T


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Yesterday was a big day... installed the speakers, the screen, the projector, the infrared system, and the networking needed for my SageTV system (centralized media storage played through extenders).

I didn't have time (or energy) to calibrate it or anything. I watched a standard DVD movie (The Matrix) just to listen and see how it worked. Awesome... picture is great, sound is amazing. Need more time to finish it (pj needs leveling, the anamorphic lens will be here soon, audio and video need calibration, install the bluray player, etc) but my first impression was VERY positive :yay2: I need to start learning REW

Sorry about my pictures being crooked - must be my head (the screen is perfectly level) 

Also my lights didn't work out exactly as planned. I'll need to move the top ones behind the screen braces - they were so bright that it lit up the screen, not the speakers.

And... I need to clean up the room. Lots of tools and discarded boxes laying around it! Major progress though - I need a vacation now :bigsmile:


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## ScruffyHT (Sep 23, 2008)

Bruce Fisher said:


> I'll have these lights plugged into my UPB network (automates the lighting in the house) so I can remotely turn them on/off at any time without having to get up.


I have been looking at UPB for lighting automation for the theater ... I want to control 4 zones via remote so what upb units do you suggest ?


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

ScruffyHT said:


> I have been looking at UPB for lighting automation for the theater ... I want to control 4 zones via remote so what upb units do you suggest ?


So many options it's hard to know. I have an automation controller (HVPro) that is my hub. You can use UPB switches if they are hardwired lights, or use lighting modules for plug in lamps. I also use 8 button controllers for local room controls. Lots of options


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## dradius (Sep 10, 2008)

Your build is looking great. I hadn't heard of the dioder sticks either, so that's good to know. Your a5-350 looks a little different than mine. I guess they've changed them a little bit. Looks like a great theater and I'm sure you're going to enjoy it.


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

dradius said:


> Your a5-350 looks a little different than mine. I guess they've changed them a little bit.


Probably because mine is laying on it's side  It was too tall to leave under the screen standing up. ED said this won't be a problem. I haven't played with it's location yet... just dropped it there. I'll be experimenting with other locations this weekend (hopefully).


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## dradius (Sep 10, 2008)

yeah, that thing is a beast 
I run mine on its side as well and it works fine. in fact i like the sound better than down firing. i'm pretty sure my ports are on the same side as the amp, not the driver.


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Adding some pictures of the above drop-ceiling insulation (someone PM'd me about it)

QuietBatt is the grey insulation material
MLV is the heavy black layer on top

The third picture is where my projector is (needed a special bracket due to the drop ceiling being so far below the joists).


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Hey Bruce,

I must have missed one of your earlier posts..:R

The front wall looks great and the screen looks excellent., nice size too.:T
Any further word on the Anamorphic lens.?


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

I went with the HTB (Home Theater Brothers) lens (they have since changed their name I believe). I am very happy with it!

They created a new mount for it - so it's attached to my projector (nice!) and I use it 100% of the time. 16:9 material gets converted to 4:3 and then stretched back to 16:9... and 2:35 gets put in letterbox mode.

Image is outstanding. I can see minor imperfections in the outsides of the image... but that only shows up on static and test screens. A moving image just looks amazing!

I still need to tweak the alignment - just a bit tipped down - but overall it's been a great investment. The full screen image of movies just blows people away... especially with the sound come from behind the screen. Amazing!

I set up REW and a BFD this weekend and tested my sub, relocated it, and calibrated the BFD. Very cool! This image is the last one taken but I have cleaned up the dip at 40hz (caused by a filter I put in and have since removed  ) Also lowered the peak around 52 hz (guess I need a new picture!)


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## dradius (Sep 10, 2008)

The insulation looks nice. The price of the QuietBatt looks like it could add up quickly. How does it sound? Oh and I double checked and my A5-350 is definitely different than yours. Ports are on same side as the amp.


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Yeah, QuietBatt adds up quickly - I covered my theater ceiling and office ceiling with it (and MLV too). Seems to me it cost me like $900 for QB, but it was worth it to me (about double what pink would have cost in my estimates)... I didn't want to deal with the fiberglass and I believe it's a better solution. I can't measure the difference... but to me it seems great so that's all that matters! :T The MLV was about the same price as QB iirc.

The Emo sub is great - but yeah - I think they had 2 versions (I don't know which is considered "new", but mine is front firing, not down firing). I have moved my sub - it's now on my side wall in front of my couch (moved it there not due to sound but to reduce the distraction from the light reflected off the screen). On the side wall, I had it pointed straight into the room, but when I ran REW determined that it was better pointing forward (towards the screen on the front wall, away from the viewers). Thankfully when I ran REW, I tested it under the screen and it was good - but the side wall was even better - it actually worked out right for me once! LOL

I need to take and post more pictures... made lots of little improvements. Best part is every time I watch something, both my wife and I comment how great everything looks and sounds! :jump:


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## dradius (Sep 10, 2008)

Well thats all that matters! As long as you and the wife are happy. You've got a very nice setup and I'm sure it sounds/looks just as good as you say, if not better.
Placement definitely can make a big difference! My sub is less than two years old, but I guess it is the older version. I've always preferred it on its side vs. down firing. Since they changed the design, I guess I wasn't the only one to notice this.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Bruce Fisher said:


> I went with the HTB (Home Theater Brothers) lens (they have since changed their name I believe). I am very happy with it!
> 
> They created a new mount for it - so it's attached to my projector (nice!) and I use it 100% of the time. 16:9 material gets converted to 4:3 and then stretched back to 16:9... and 2:35 gets put in letterbox mode.
> 
> ...


It looks a very neat set up Bruce..

Most people can't really appreciate how good anamorphic projection is, until they see it for themselves..
Now that you've seen it for yourself, you can understand what all the hype is about..
Even using a relatively cheap lens...it's still mind blowing, and the image really sucks you into it..

We have a famous car race over here called the Bathurst 500..where V8 Supercars race up and down a mountain and around a twisting track at very high speed..
They have cameras inside the cars, showing the track ahead..
Watching this on a Scope screen has left me feeling car sick on more than one occasion..:R
This is the sort of realism you get with anamorphic projection..

I'm sure you'll have many hours of enjoyment re-watching all your movies!..:yay:

Bruce, it would be much appreciated if you would post pics of your theatre (when it's finished) in the Anamorphic forum..


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## Bruce Fisher (Nov 24, 2007)

Here are some more pictures... still WIP (work in process).

1st pic show the alignment grid (dvd is 16:9) - not too bad. Can see a bit of issue in the outer edges but really not bad

and then 2nd image is anamorphic - same camera position. What a difference...

Some of the room pictures you can see what we're doing. The bar in the back still needs a bar top on it. The table with a cloth on it will be replaced with some cabinets soon. And waiting for our curtains to arrive to cover the big door outside and window. And waiting for the interior door (next week) to seperate the rooms (used a solid wood door - thing is really heavy - it's actually an exterior door)

I am still planning on adding black sound panels on the ceiling (especially up front near the screen).

But we're making progress  And I'll be happy to post in the anamorphic forum when we finish


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Very nice shots..and there looks to be minimal CA which is surprisingly good for a low cost lens..:T

It looks like you're on the home stretch..


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