# Do I need room EQ?



## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Read and downloaded instructions for measuering room response. Used radio shack Model 33-4050 Analog RS Meter.

Here's the results:









I got an amazing response at 28 hz corrected ~ 102 db, where as the 63 hz tone is only 74 db in comparison. Thats 102-74db = 28 db difference. It's noticeble in movies as I got alot of bass really - I even measured 110 db once and this is "just" a velodyne CHT 10.

Anyways, I'm decided on getting a new / better sub, but until then I'm considering using some sort of EQ system for better bass response particularly for music.

/claus


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

In your 12' X 18' room, where is your sub located and roughly where is the primary seating position.


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

You can certainly use eq, but it's going to take more than eq to correct that huge dip at 63hz. You should first experiment with repositioning either or both your sub and your seating positions to see what you can achieve without eq, then use eq to smooth out the rest.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Here's a very primitive "paint" drawing of my viewing room.

The position it's in now delived the best low end response. When I installed it, I didn't have the radio shack sound pressure meter though. Position was done with a friend of mine and we both agreed that the corner placement added most punch, however at the expense of a very uneven response curve. At the time we used some test tones that I downloaded of the web, again without a db meter, we simply listened. The dip seemed to accur less in the spot right next to the couch (Just left of the coach). Using our ears we agreed that there was a suckout.

We spend the better part of an evening, but I really realised that it wasn't going to be as simple as I had hoped for.

The corner placement is also the most practicle I'm not sure I'm being allowed anywhere else to put it! Better half got a shock when I got the big black box delivered! - I thought it was small and cute - she didn't really agree!


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

Realize that what give you the most perceived punch like the corner does not always give you the flattest frequency response. Generally, your best sound will be when you can flatten out the large peaks and nulls in the response, then get your punch back by boosting up the overall sub volume by a couple of db. You might find that you can improve your response by just moving the sub out of the corner by a foot or so.

In that area of that dip, your are losing most of an entire octave of bass. In movies and in music, there is a lot of stuff in the area between the 50's and the 80's.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

It's a fairly large room to fill with that sub, but it sounds like you aren't going to be stepping up because of WAF. 

Unless you like to punish yourself, you could speed up and increase the accuracy of the frequency response measurement process by using the free REW software. We know you have a PC and an SPL meter, so you're almost ready to go except for some cables. Give some thought to using it.

Your big problem is certainly the dip in response at ~60Hz and the peak at ~28Hz. Adding gain filters to dips like that isn't the best idea since it eats up headroom. You may not have a lot of that left to bargain with, and dips are usually stubborn. The peaks are easily removed with EQ filters. Disregarding specific levels and assuming the graph is a sub only measurement with an 80Hz crossover used, below is an example target you would shoot for, realizing that the dips are likely going to remain unless you move the sub or listening position. 










If you're going to continue using the excel method, I would recommend modifying the spreadsheet to use a horizontal axis of 20Hz to 200Hz.....

brucek


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

Claus,

I'd venture to say that when you move across your sofa the frequency response changes quite a bit.

Given your setup, you're going to have problems regardless of using an equalizer. The question is going to have to be what can you live with and what you can't.

Ideally, move the sub to the other size of the display and move your sofa forward 4 ft and away from the side wall. 

Is any of this possible?


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

First of all, thanks for all the replies. Just signed up for this forum and already it seems very good!



mojomike said:


> Realize that what give you the most perceived punch like the corner does not always give you the flattest frequency response. Generally, your best sound will be when you can flatten out the large peaks and nulls in the response, then get your punch back by boosting up the overall sub volume by a couple of db. You might find that you can improve your response by just moving the sub out of the corner by a foot or so.
> 
> In that area of that dip, your are losing most of an entire octave of bass. In movies and in music, there is a lot of stuff in the area between the 50's and the 80's.


Tomorrow I'll experient moving the sub around. I'll make a new spreadsheet starting off at 20hz.



brucek said:


> It's a fairly large room to fill with that sub, but it sounds like you aren't going to be stepping up because of WAF.
> 
> Unless you like to punish yourself, you could speed up and increase the accuracy of the frequency response measurement process by using the free REW software. We know you have a PC and an SPL meter, so you're almost ready to go except for some cables. Give some thought to using it.
> 
> ...


I could consider a new sub for sure. One thing I havent mentioned is that I'm building a house, but not moving until 9 months or so. I havent decided on what to get for my setup in the new house, but I was possibly thinking something like Velodyne DD 15 or so. Until I move I'm reluctant to invest in the wrong sub that I cannot take with me into the new house. However as I crave for better bass I might buy it sooner rather than later and risk it.

I would definately consider using the software you mention, however I thought I needed the BFD for it as well? I could easily buy cables and such and I was very much considering the BFD. I am however a little worried it will be too complex for me.



JimP said:


> Claus,
> 
> I'd venture to say that when you move across your sofa the frequency response changes quite a bit.
> 
> ...


Yes, actually I've stepped all around the room, it's simply quite amazing how moving 2 feet can make for instance a 30hz sin tone disappear completely.

Moving the sub to the other side might work, however, it will be near a door and we're entering the whole WAF issue then. Moving the coach is not an option really, there's some furniture beside it. My crude drawing did not show this - sorry.

As mentioned above in my reply here, I'll try moving it around tomorrow and do some tests and see if I can find a spot with few dips and an even curve.

Thanks again for the inputs so far, really appreciate it.

/claus
DK


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

clausdk said:


> .....I could consider a new sub for sure. One thing I havent mentioned is that I'm building a house, but not moving until 9 months or so. I havent decided on what to get for my setup in the new house, but I was possibly thinking something like Velodyne DD 15 or so. Until I move I'm reluctant to invest in the wrong sub that I cannot take with me into the new house. However as I crave for better bass I might buy it sooner rather than later and risk it.......


I can't give you an opinion about your original question .... but I'm curious: Are you building a dedicated HT room in your new house???? .... I think now is the right moment to plan for a nice Theater :yes::yes::yes:


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## mojomike (Feb 12, 2007)

clausdk said:


> First of all, thanks for all the replies. Just signed up for this forum and already it seems very good!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The DD-15 you are considering is a honey of a sub and it has a built-in system for measuring and eq-ing the sub. It ain't cheap, but it's a good sub.

The REW software does not actually do the eq-ing, but it measures the frequency response and calculates the filter settings to use on the BFD to get the frequency response you want. I'd suggest starting out with some REW measurements along with some placement experimentation before eq. You may be able to get a big improvement without any eq. 

Also, experiment with the phase of the sub. Somtimes the phase relationship between the sub and the mains can cause bass cancellation in the crossover region.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

salvasol said:


> I can't give you an opinion about your original question .... but I'm curious: Are you building a dedicated HT room in your new house???? .... I think now is the right moment to plan for a nice Theater :yes::yes::yes:


I thought about it, however two things decided against it.

1) Budget. It's our first house, so building and extra 20x30 feet home cinema wasnt really an option at this point.

2) Sometimes I like watching a comedy in a lit room. And if you have friends over, it's nice to enjoy all your equipment in a more lit up room.

However, when we build our next house, which I suspect we will some day, I will most likely be in a position to go "all out" and have a living room with decent equipment and also a dedicated HT.

/claus


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm trying to get the REW software up and running now.

Connected the PC to my reciever and it's working.

However, I dont get any input from the SPL meter - BUT when I physically tap it I can actually hear that in my speakers!

When I run the SPL calibration it does not register any input.

My question is, am I using the wrong connection?

To connect it the only cable I had was this:

1 mini jack <-> 2 RCA phono. (Connected the radio shack to the "red" phone")

/claus


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Wow, its working now!

However, the results are not like the ones i did manuelly at all, so thats wierd? Will work with it some more and post results here shortly.

/claus


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Sigh, spend all day now working this program. Got some progress atleast!

However....look:









My sub doesnt even play 20 hz...

I did however get some earlier readins, which I deleted though, and they have some dips in them and looked a bit more realistic. I can only generate this graph at the moment though.

Going to look through the helpme files and continue working with it.

/claus


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

I keep getting this graph when running the measurements.

I've checked the SPL cal. and it's where's it's supposed to be, really can't see what the problem is.

I even tried to set the cycle to 21.5 secs, and I can CLEARLY hear dips and peaks when running the 2-200hz sweep - clearly!

For some reason the results don't show in the program. It's funny because my very first readings actually had some dips and peaks but now all of the sudden its this wierd curve..

Argh getting pretty frustrated with it now


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

claus,

Using the Radio Shack SPL meter, have you checked "c weighting SPL Meter" on the MicMeter tab of the "Settings" window?


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Yes, doubled checked.

I used the guide to set it all up. Only deviation I had to make was to use "what you hear" as input, otherwise no input was detected. Turns out only "wave" works and not microphone..? well I can do the SPL cal and it shows the db etc.

My soundcard is audigy 2 ZS.

Other noteworthy information:

PC to reciever is done via Minijack <--> coax (only have 1 mini jack <-> 2xRCA)
PC to SPL meter is done via minijack <--> 2 x RCA (Using left, as right make the SPL meter's clip)

/claus


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Claus,

I don't think you are yet really using the SPL meter output. I used to use the Audigy 2 ZS and I recall that it was tricky to get a "Line Input" (note do not use a "Mic" input) to be selected. From what you describe, instead you are using the PC synthesized "Wave" output. Seem to recall some helpful notes on getting an Audigy to work in the REW help files. I don't have the reference material handy right now -- will see what I can dig up tomorrow.

Bob


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Only deviation I had to make was to use "what you hear" as input,


You must use the line input. The problem you are experiencing is that the output of your soundcard is looped to the input by being in the 'monitor' mode. This is a feature to allow a a person to hear what they record. You don't want this for REW. The result is simply a graph of the inverse of your meter calibration file.

Look at the proper setup in this thread. It should help.

You're almost there. 

brucek


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

When I use "line in" nothing is recorded/registered from the SPL meter.

The only way I can get any db from the SPL meter is by using "wave". And using wave there is no option to "record without monitoring".

It's so wierd, because initially I got some graph showing atleast something, but now I just get this perfect line...


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

claus

Might want to check your soundcard manufacturer's website for a firware download.

Which operating system are you using? 

I'm on Vista and some of the soundcard settings are not there on my external Soundblaster USB card that have been discussed in this forum in other threads.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> When I use "line in" nothing is recorded/registered from the SPL meter.


Show us a jpg of your windows mixer playback and record settings and also your audigy mixer settings....

brucek


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok will find those and post them.

/claus


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hang in there, claus! There aren't many people more software challenged than I am - If I can figure it out (with a lot of help from my Shack buddies) you will, too! We're here to help.

Since this has morphed into an REW thread, I’m moving it to the appropriate Forum.

Regards,
Wayne


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2007)

Hopefully this will help you claus, I had the same problem with my PCMCIA Audigy 2 ZS on my laptop.

Couple of quick notes before getting started.

1) The audigy software will uninstall the driver for your on-board sound. If you want to use your laptop speakers you will have to re-install the on-board sound drivers each time you update you Audigy software. I'm still not sure re-installing the on-board sound drivers didn't create some of my compatibility issues between REW & the Audigy card. I you decide to reinstall the on-board drivers, I would suggest waiting until you work all the REW & Audigy bugs out first.

2) I would suggest you update all of the drivers and software for the audigy card if you haven't already. There were several problems with the earlier versions, most of which can be resolved by installing the most recent updates.

3) I spent most of an afternoon trying to get the "What U Hear" input to work before I realized my soundcard output was dead. I unplugged the cable and my input level meter in REW did not go to zero volts! "What U Hear" is the monitor mode and simply feeds REW from an internal path. My cal sweep was also as flat as a pancake from 0 Hz to 24 kHz, a thing of beauty! I was amazed how well Creative Sound designed this soundcard! Hehehe. My point is, if you suspect a problem, unplug your loop back cable and verify the level at the input meter in REW goes to zero. If not, the signal's not coming from your 3.5 mm card output.

PCMCIA Audigy 2 ZS - REW Calibration

1) Check for correct audio driver configuration:
Start Menu>control panel>sounds & audio devices>Audio - Make sure sound playback and sound record device are both set to SB Audigy 2[FECO]

2)Soundcard set-up in REW
Launch REW and open the settings panel. Next open the Audigy surround mixer and EAX controls and set all three panels so they can be viewed at once. This will allow you to verify your REW controls are moving the sound card controls.

In the EAX control, make sure the CMSS 3D control is not checked. The other three settings should also be unchecked.

Select SB Audigy 2 [FECO] in both the input and output select window of REW. 

Set the output to speaker and the input to Line_in. If you change the settings in REW you should see them change in the audigy control panels. Pic 1 below indicates the wrong settings and Pic 2, the correct settings

In the REW soundcard settings window, select the boxes that will allow REW to control the levels of the soundcard. All the settings should match Pic 2. You will use the input volume control in REW to set my soundcard cal level later on.

3) Mic/Meter settings
I don't think its required but I would suggest going to the Mic/Meter settings page and uncheck the "C Weighted" box and clear the meter cal file if loaded. See Pic 3

4) Soundcard calibration (read entire section before proceeding)
Clear the soundcard cal if necessary. Hit the measure button and follow the directions to create a soundcard cal file. You should come out with a graph similar to Pic 4. Before hitting the "Make Cal" button you can verify the cal by minimizing the settings window and take a measurement using the "Measure" button on the main window. 

Make sure you drop the settings tab down in the "Measure" window and set the upper freq. stop to 20,000 Hz. It may be set to 24,000 Hz as a result of doing the cal and it will cause your level to be to low because of the roll-off on the upper end. After setting the freq. stop you may also have to play with the level adjustment in the drop down to get an OK when doing the level check. Once the level passes, your ready to run the measurement. Check the graph, it should match your original cal graph except it will be at a higher level. Now open the measurement window again and make sure you set the upper freq. stop to 200 Hz before canceling out of the window.

Bring your settings window back to the desktop and hit "Make Cal" and save the file in a folder. It should also load in the window on the settings panel.

4) Measurement level

Select "Check level" and follow the directions. I set my level to -18 dB as it suggest.

You should be ready to go to the Mic/Meter tab and cal your SPL meter. Load the meter cal and check the "C Weighted" box. Select "Calibrate SPL" and follow directions. 

You should be ready to start measuring!

Sry for all the detail, I'm sure you know most of this stuff but I wanted to be sure and cover everything. One more thing I forgot to mention. I prefer to let REW control my audigy. But, if you want to change between "What U Hear" and Line-in using the audigy mixer, there is a little drop-down arrow by the record slider on the mixer console. If "Line-in" is selected and displayed next to the record slider, the menu will have "What U Hear" as an option and vise versa. Both options won't appear in the drop-down at the same time. Kinda weird if you ask me.

Good luck and I hope this helps!


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2007)

Sorry pics didn't load, I'll try again. I'm a little "posting challenged".


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

First of all, I wanted to make JPEG dumps of my settings, but unsure how to. Also, I've followed the steps in the REW guide to the point. 

Still, using "line in" I get nothing on my SPL meter when using it through REW. And still, using "right" RCA into the SPL meter makes the needle go all the way to max db and clipping. Using "left" RCA I can get a reading, but ONLY using "wave" which appearently is a loop.



djjhawk said:


> Hopefully this will help you claus, I had the same problem with my PCMCIA Audigy 2 ZS on my laptop.
> 
> Couple of quick notes before getting started.
> 
> ...



Thanks alot for the input, however, it's still not working. I'm still pretty clueless about it.

EDIT: ok saw pictures now and did it 100% as that, and again, NOTHING comes through via the "line in". I really can't say whats wrong? cabling? soundcard? argh!

Another thing. My LINE_IN is like this: LINE_IN (Analog mix (Line/CD/aux/TAD/PC)) and not simply "line in" as in your pictures.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Using "line in":








And using "wave":


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

On Audigy 2 selecting the Line In needs 2 steps, selecting "Analog Mix" in the Record panel of the Basic tab of the Creative Surround Mixer or chssoing it on the REW settings panel as you have done, then going to the Source panel of the Creative Surround Mixer and muting all the sources except for Line In. The problem you saw of the needle on the meter going to max when you plug it in happens if you plug into a mic input, mic inputs have a supply output for the mic on the R channel which is what causes the meter needle to deflect. Don't use the mic input, there will be a line input you can use. There's more info about Audigy 2 in this thread: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...-feedback-my-radioshck-sound-level-meter.html


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Just rechecked and they are all muted, except for wave, which according to the above poster, should be left on - according the pictures posted atleast.

Still, nothing is showing on the input meter. Toggling wave on and off while in "line in" doesnt nothing. 

To be honest, I don't think it's supposed to be this hard to get it to work! some little detail is preventing this from working im sure of it!


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

To avoid conflicts with your laptop's internal sound card (so to speak) wouldn't you do well to go into device manager and disable your laptop's sound card?


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

On your sound card calibration window, should line in appear where you have wave?


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm using a desktop, and the internal sound card is disabled.
Im not sure I understand the 2nd question.


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Rec has to be set to Analog Mix and you need to unmute Line In in the Surround Mixer


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2007)

Claus,

I think I see the problem, although I'm not sure what's causing it yet. It looks like the audigy 2 card does not have full control of your record settings in Windows. Look at the pic below:








I don't have the analog mixer option. Its almost as if the recorder is still operating with the windows drivers. I remember this was an issue when I was working through my set-up problems, but I can't remember what I did to correct the problem. Give me a little time and I'll try to figure it out. 

Couple of other items: 

DF00, not a problem, this is the start address of the I/O mem being used by the card and will vary from machine to machine.

I believe the only source you want selected is "Wave" in the mixer "source" panel. These are play-back options not record options. If you select Line-in, it will create the feedback you don't want.

In start>control panel>sound & audio devices>Audio>recording devices: Are there any options available other than SB Audigy 2 [DF00]? If there are, go to Control Panel>System>Device Manager>sound & audio devices>select the device that was active and right-click and select properties. Go to drivers tab and select "disable driver". You will probably have to reboot. Go back to your sounds & audio devices and verify the device is no longer available as a recording option.

Check and see if the analog mixer option is still available under your record options


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2007)

Claus,

Just thought of something else. Your record options on the audigy list the exact options available in your windows record control mixer panel.
Bring up your windows "record" mixer panel and select "Options". Is your line-in box selected? Is it even available to select?


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2007)

"Its almost as if the "your" recorder is still operating with the windows drivers.

Mine is as I would expect yours is the one with the problem.


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## Guest (Jun 30, 2007)

Hi Claus, sry I haven't been much help here. I was also pretty frustrated with my card before I finally got it working. I kept looking at different post describing how to set-up my card but none of the views and/or setting appeared to match the ones I had available. At least ours appear to look the, although I think there may be a still be a few differences in how the operate. Could simply be a difference in PCs.

I'm not a big fan of SB products but this was the only pcmcia card I could find. Their documentation has always been a problem. Instead of telling you what the patch/update actually fixes, they say things like "enhanced and improved functionality of the mixer...." sigh

In your earlier post you said:

"Unable to perform soundcard measurements as there's is no input vrom the SPL meter on the "vu meter". Make sense? My speakers are making the sweep. The SPL meter senses it, however the soundcard or whatever it is, is NOT registering it into the REW program. This is the main problem atm and I could almost cry! argh"

Yes, it makes sense. The speakers you mention, are they internal to the PC? If not, where are they plugged in? If they are internal as I suspect, this indicates you are not getting the signal through the "speaker output" on the sound card. That is what your pics indicate you have selected for an output in REW. If by chance they are external, then this is where you need to connect the cable connected to your Line-in in order to do you sound card cal. When everything is connected properly you will not here the output through the speakers.

In order for everything to work correctly I believe you will have to have an option in the windows recording control panel that says "Line-in". I don't think selecting the "analog mixer" option in this window will work. There should be a way to change the option from "analog mixer" to "line-in". In the picture you provided of the windows recording mixer panel there is an advanced button right below the analog mixer slider. When you select the button what options are available? Can you select Line-in?

In the picture of your audigy mixer there is a little red + sign above the record button. When you click on it what options do you get? Does it give you a "Line-in" selection?

Also, when you select the options located in the upper left corner of the "windows recording controls", what device options are available and are they all selected?

Hang in there, I think you will find its worth it in the end, its a very nice sound card! I am sure you are correct when you say its a small detail being missed. Once you find it, you will know the card inside and out and be able to take advantage of all the features! Oh and REW pretty nice as well


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

The Audigy 2 ZS mixer cannot be fully controlled via the Windows record/playback windows. Selecting Line In on the Windows record control panel is equivalent to selecting Analog Mix in the Creative Surround Mixer. The source that is actually routed through the Audigy's analog mixer is determined by the various mute selections in the Surround Mixer panel, which is why the Line In needs to be unmuted there. It will work with Rec set to Analog Mix and Line In unmuted.


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## Guest (Jul 1, 2007)

JohnM said:


> The Audigy 2 ZS mixer cannot be fully controlled via the Windows record/playback windows. Selecting Line In on the Windows record control panel is equivalent to selecting Analog Mix in the Creative Surround Mixer. The source that is actually routed through the Audigy's analog mixer is determined by the various mute selections in the Surround Mixer panel, which is why the Line In needs to be unmuted there. It will work with Rec set to Analog Mix and Line In unmuted.


Hi John,

I guess my pcmcia version of the card is different from your card. When I put all my windows, audigy and REW controls on the desktop, its easy to see when I unmute the Line-in control in the audigy "Source" control panel, the only thing that changes is the mute box unchecks in the windows "play control" panel (no longer named Volume Control now named Play Controls)

When selecting the line-in control using the windows "Recording Controls", the audigy "Record" control or the REW "Input Selection" drop down menu, all three of the previously listed controls reflect the change. The Line-in control in the windows Play Controls", and the audigy "Source" selections remains muted. This indicates, that on my audigy card, the "Source" selects the information source. In the case of REW, the source is a wave file generated by the software, which is processed by the sound card and output as a signal to the speaker jack. The record input is used to deliver the information back to REW and is selected using Line-in at the audigy "Record" control, or windows "Recording Controls" or REW Input Select" drop down menu selection, not the play or source selects.

On my card, unmuting the "Source" line-in, puts the system in the mode brucek suggest is a problem in the thread you provided a link to earlier. It unmutes the playback line-in.

I have noticed that when REW is not being used and I mute & unmute source controls at the audigy "Source" control, the audigy record setting does follow the "Source" selection. In most applications it would probably be considered normal operation to to set the recorder to record the selected source. REW generates the Wave file and no other source is required. It appears to me the author of the REW software defeated this source/record "coupled" function offered by Creative. Whether it was intentional I don't know, but REW does disable the feature on my sound card.

Additionally, when I select line-in using the audigy card "Source" controls, I do maintain a level on the REW meter but it is 3 dB lower than when the option is muted. I also hear the higher frequency tones played on my internal laptop speakers. When muted the REW meter indicates a level 3 dB higher and the speakers are silent. This would indicate the "Source" line-in becomes somewhat of a monitor when its not muted.

Since you have an analog mixer option available, your software operation might be different, I don't know. I had the option available at one time but I believe it went away when I upgraded my Realtek AC 97 drivers, I don't remember for sure though. I upgraded the driver so I could use my laptop speakers to listen to the audigy card. Prior to the upgrade I couldn't listen to anything, other than the audigy speaker test tone provided in the creative feature mode selection utility. I found several references to the same problem on the net that suggested upgrading my on-board sound drivers. Evidently some portion of the path created by the Realtek AC97 for the speakers is required. The speakers started working after the upgrade. I think the driver upgrade removed all the excess windows controls from the mixer panels and I was left with mirrors of my audigy controls in my winders controls.

I did so many different things to get this card to work with REW, its hard to keep track. I know it was after I upgraded my on-board sound drivers that I was able to get REW to operate. But with everything I did, its hard to say what actually fixed my problems. I also had other problems outside of REW that had to be addressed. The pcmcia version is known to be a little buggy.

I finally got TrueRTA going last week and my readings are very similar to what I see in REW. With all the problems I've had, it gave me a little confidence that I have REW running properly now.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Here are the windows record and play settings. It's in Danish, however most titles are still english though. Properties for Record settings - I've selected every possible tab for that, so they are all visible. There's no "line in" only the analog mix. For play settings funnily enough, there is a "line in" setting, go figure. In the Advanced controls for REC on "analog mix" it's set to do so without monitoring.

Oh and btw, just to TEST the soundcard, I recorded myself with a headset microphone and I DOES record me - so something can come into that card! just not via Line in for some reason that escapes me still!


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

djjhawk said:


> Hi Claus, sry I haven't been much help here. I was also pretty frustrated with my card before I finally got it working. I kept looking at different post describing how to set-up my card but none of the views and/or setting appeared to match the ones I had available. At least ours appear to look the, although I think there may be a still be a few differences in how the operate. Could simply be a difference in PCs.
> 
> Yes i noticed this as well
> 
> ...


Sigh yea, om trying real hard. I'm at the verge of pulling the trigger on a Velodyne DD sub just to have something to work with! But I get stubborn now as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with the soundcard, but it seems to work differently from the ones you have and the ones used as reference for the guide material


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

JohnM said:


> The Audigy 2 ZS mixer cannot be fully controlled via the Windows record/playback windows. Selecting Line In on the Windows record control panel is equivalent to selecting Analog Mix in the Creative Surround Mixer. The source that is actually routed through the Audigy's analog mixer is determined by the various mute selections in the Surround Mixer panel, which is why the Line In needs to be unmuted there. It will work with Rec set to Analog Mix and Line In unmuted.


I've done it with this exact setting, ****, I must have done like a million combos by now lol - anyways, nothing is registered on the VU meter. In the picture above "play control" has "line in" unmuted, but as I am writing this I am now muting it and using analog mix and will conduct yet another test.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Did another little test.

Instead of the SPL meter I plugged in a headset and made a test tone with my mouth .

On *"analog mix"* NOTHING.
On *"Wave" and "what you hear" *I dont even have to make a noise, its on the internal loop.
On *"microphone"* I get a response!! wee, ok so its working to some degree.

I think replug the SPL meter using microphone and it displays nothing!

*So again, I am using correct cabling? As Ive mentioned earlier I only have a minijack leading into 2 RCA. Using "right" RCA in the SPL meter make the needles flick all the way to max. Using left doesnt do that.*


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

SUCCES HALLELUJA!!!

Finally. Twiddling back and forth, checking cables and reading through all the wonderful help everyones provided I finally managed to get it working. Right now I am scared to even turn off my computer!!!!

First test result:
It's quite similar to the manual readings I did initially before being mentioned to use the REW. I'm glad it does reflect that, because that means it most likely very accurate!

Really, I must thank everyone for using your precious sparetime to try and help me through this. Really appreciate it.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok Ive adjusted crossovers, sub level and used my reciever to tweak and was able to make it a little better. Must say, its so much easier being able to instantly meassure the results!

The purple line is the original sub placement. The above posted graph shows a dip around 60-70 hz down to about 65db. In the same spot with the adjustments I was only able to raise it slightly. The dip at 47 hz seems to be a little deeper this time.

Moving the sub to the other side of the stereo is the blue line. Same dip at 47 and 60 hz, but im loosing at the low end.

Those 2 placements are the only practicle places in my living room right now.

I'm moving it back to its orignal place, as its by far the most practicle and the benifits from moving it to the opposite side were marginal.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

More tweaking. I decided to eat headroom to remove the dips by simply boosting the overall sub level! Around 98 db at 28hz! ouch lol. anyways the dip at 45 hz is now at 78db and the dip at 63hz around 77db. Now if I could just tame those peaks! The response curve could actually begin to look decent.

Theres a huge dip at 145hz which I really dont know what to do about.

Ive boosted 6db on the receiver at 63hz and 125 hz effectively removing those dips.

Heres the results:


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

Claus,

Congratulations on getting REW to work. We knew you would get there.

Viewing your graphs, I'm of the opinion that you were better off with the sub on the other side of your display because your frequency response curve was flatter. You can compensate for spl by raising the gain on your preamp/receiver or on the sub itself. Then use a BFD to pull down those peaks.

Other things to look is to be sure that your subwoofer distance is correct by changing the distance setting in your preamp/receiver and measure the variations. Same thing with polarity, phase and high pass slope.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

As my living rooms layed out, the only real choice I have is where it was to begin with. When our house is finally built, in around 9 months from now, I'll have alot more places to chose from.

For now my plan is to buy a Behringer DSP1124p and use the REW program to flatten out the response curve. Hopefully I can pick one up monday, but I also need some new cables, so I might not be ready until tuesday or wednesday evening.

It's great experiementing and I feel I've learned alot already.

Btw, shifting phase from 0 only worsened things. CHT 10 sub has very limited adjustments btw.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> It appears to me *the author of the REW software* defeated this source/record "coupled" function offered by Creative. Whether it was intentional I don't know, but REW does disable the feature on my sound card.


hehehe, when you're talking to JohnM in this thread, you *are* talking to the author of REW - John Mulcahy 



> Theres a huge dip at 145hz which I really dont know what to do about


This is above the influence of the subwoofer considering the bass management crossover will have lowered the subs output at this frequency quite considerably. The mains are the biggest influence at that frequency.
Normally, we disconnect the mains and check the response of the sub alone and then equalize. Then we add the mains and observe the crossover area (i.e. 80Hz) for interaction problems that may be corrected with placement, phase control, distance adjustments and some equalization tweaking..

I'm still a bit confused why it wasn't working and now it is? can't argue with success though

brucek


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

brucek said:


> hehehe, when you're talking to JohnM in this thread, you *are* talking to the author of REW - John Mulcahy
> 
> 
> This is above the influence of the subwoofer considering the bass management crossover will have lowered the subs output at this frequency quite considerably. The mains are the biggest influence at that frequency.
> ...


/claus


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I guess I can remove the speaker cables from the mains or how would one go about that?


Yeah, simply disconnect the mains cables (with the power off) and then do the test with the sub only. Usually, you'll do the testing with the receiver in stereo mode, so the other HT speakers remain off too.



> When using it now, I still have to "fiddle" with the plug on the SPL meter to make sure it works.


Maybe you can take it apart and try and fix it. RCA connectors are so crummy...
It's good you found the reasons for the trouble.....

brucek


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2007)

brucek said:


> hehehe, when you're talking to JohnM in this thread, you *are* talking to the author of REW - John Mulcahy



Geez, you would have to tell me that wouldn't ya! opssign: Argh, user #2, how'd I miss that. :duh: I suppose that means Sonnie is #1. :yes: Shoot, better go look, be right back....:whew:

BTW, great job John! :surrender: Thanks for all the effort you put forth to write this outstanding program. :hail: OK, I know, but at this point isn't a little sucking up imperative! Hey, anyone know what happened to that smiley that puts his foot in his mouth!

OK, all kidding aside, now I'm a little concerned that my sound card's not functioning properly. There seems to be an abnormally high number of problems with getting the Audigy 2 to function properly, not just with REW but with other applications as well.

What I'm wondering is if most of the problems aren't related to how these cards are being installed. Although I can't remember seeing any reference made to it by Creative Sound, I've read several reviews that indicted it is best to uninstall the drivers and disable the on-board sound before installing the Audigy 2. On my laptop, the Phoenix BIOS does not have provisions to turn off the on-board sound. So I was left with the choice of disabling or uninstalling the drivers at the operating system level. I've never been comfortable doing this. I was worried when XP rebooted from the Audigy install, that it would also attempt to reinstall the Realtek drivers, so I simply disabled them.

In the end, it appeared that the Audigy 2 install program uninstalled the Realtek drivers anyway. After I got the Audigy 2 to function I went ahead and reinstalled a newer version of the Realtek drivers.

So I'm left with several questions. Is my Audigy 2 operating properly, if unmuting the source line-in unmutes the line-in in the windows play controls? Is this an anomaly only found on the pcmcia version of the card? Or is it because I didn't get a clean install or possibly corrupted the Audigy 2 drivers when I re-installed the Realtek drivers? Or maybe I lost the analog mixer option as a result of some or all of the above? After thinking about it awhile, I think the way John described the operation of the source controls in relationship to the analog mixer makes more sense than how my controls are currently operating.

If someone gets a chance, it would be very helpful if they could please verify a couple of things. First, does anyone have any experience with the pcmcia Audigy 2. In particular, the surround mixer operation? If so, does your card have the analog mixer? If not, does the card operate like mine? I think this could be verified by opening all three audio control panels and seeing which controls are affected by changing the Audigy 2 source line-in mute. Mine affects the play control line-in.

I may go ahead and uninstall everything, do a clean install and not reinstall the Realtek drivers. I wish I could shut my on-board sound off in the bios, then I might be better able to verify my concerns regarding faulty installs creating most of the problems with the Audigy 2. I'm afraid it doesn't prove much without the option in the bios.

Again, all kidding aside, I'd like to thank John for taking the time to create such a great program! And thanks to everyone at the Shack for all their support!


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## Guest (Jul 2, 2007)

Hey Claus....good to hear you found the proble!


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Thanks!

Today I ordered the Behringer DSP 1124P. They did have the FBQ in stock as well, but reading through the BFD guide it seems the 1124 is preferable as it can store many presets. The 1124P is also cheaper, payed 100 Euro ~ 130 $. 

On top of that I ordered a good deal of cables so that's another ~ 150 $ approx. That midi interface is fairly expensive.

Total system will be around 350 $ including the SPL meter. For comparison the SMS-1 retails for around 1350 $ in Denmark. Stress price a little lower. So if I can get this to work I still saved around 1000 $ which is enough that I can actually buy a new subwoofer!

It will take a few days before it arrive unfortunately! I can't wait to get startet.

Even though I havet EQ'd anything yet, just by going through all that trouble getting the REW to work I've learned alot and was able to set my reciever more accurately and I have improved sound already. Very happy for that.

Again, thanks for this forum and all the help I recieved.


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## clubfoot (Apr 12, 2007)

djjhawk said:


> I may go ahead and uninstall everything, do a clean install and not reinstall the Realtek drivers. I wish I could shut my on-board sound off in the bios, then I might be better able to verify my concerns regarding faulty installs creating most of the problems with the Audigy 2. I'm afraid it doesn't prove much without the option in the bios.


Doing a complete reinstall is a good start, and DO NOT reinstall the Realtek drivers if the Creative install removes them or they will be fighting over the same resources,....audio/sound. I can recommend the M-Audio UNO for midi/usb hook up and the M-Audio Buddy for mic pre amp if you decide to purchase an ECM8000.


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## Guest (Jul 4, 2007)

Thanks but....

I uninstalled everything, Realtek and Creative. Reinstalled the Audigy 2 and it works just like it did before, which seems to be fine. After checking everything out and verifying the operation with REW, I reinstalled the Realtek drivers. As far as I can see everything works great without any problems. 

If I would have thought about it a little more I would have realized there is no need for an analog mixer on the pcmcia Audigy 2. The pcmcia card only has 3 connectors available at the card edge. Two 3.5 mm connectors, one for Microphone In/Line In/Optical In and the other for Headphone/Optical Out and a third connector for a special speaker docking cable. Since the input jack can only be used for one device at a time, there is no need for an analog (duh) mixer. 

Creative has also provided a recorder selection on the pcmcia card called "What U Hear", which can be used in conjunction with the surround mixer to mix internally generated signals with the single line-in connector.

Other Audigy 2 cards have multiple input connections and require the analog mixer. As it was pointed out earlier, the analog mixer needs some form of control to select multiple hardware inputs.

Thanks for your input on the card you suggested, I'll certainly keep it in mind for future reference. Looks like a good device for a good price. For now, I'm happy with the Audigy 2, especially for the 38 bucks delivered I paid. I'm not sure I would have bought it though, if I had to pay full price.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Got the behringer and working with it right now!

Got midi working too!

Can't seem to get the BFD to work with the filters - its flashing red on the 12 band EQ ever since i downloaded the filters from the REW to it.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Can't seem to get the BFD to work with the filters - its flashing red on the 12 band EQ


Are you able to manually manipulate and store filters in a program without any problem?

brucek


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Yes, using preset 5 I was able to put, as a test -30ish gain on 30 and 40 hz, then did a measurements and it showed in the REW graph. So it can clearly manipulate the signal.

Also when doing the manual tweaking the flashing red "filters 123...12 etc" turn to steady.

When i use the REW to download the filters it seems to be working but it's not "saving" them even though I manually press "store" on the BFD.

Also, preset 1-4 I cannot manually adjust those.

I've set everything I could to "PA" btw.

Still working with it....


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok I can edit completely preset one now. I need to go into each of the 12 filters for preset one and set them to PA they then stop flashing.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

When I send the filters to the BFD using the REW I get no error message it seems just fine. I then head over to the BFD after I have send them and hit "store" into "preset" 1. However it does not overwrite the ones I made manuelly. Why? I have no clue.


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## clubfoot (Apr 12, 2007)

clausdk said:


> Got the behringer and working with it right now!
> 
> Got midi working too!
> 
> Can't seem to get the BFD to work with the filters - its flashing red on the 12 band EQ ever since i downloaded the filters from the REW to it.


You need to program/setup the Behringer to accept and store the filters. There is a step by step guide somewhere on this site, but I can't seem to locate it now.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

I'm assuming that your BFD has the new firmware V1.4 and you're aware that midi doesn't work with V1.3 as shown in this thread?.

brucek


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## JimP (May 18, 2006)

Is it possible to buy the BFD with V1.4 already loaded?


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

No I wasnt aware of this.

More equipment now hehe, eprom etc...wow. Reading briefly through that thread it seems Behringer custormer support might ship them though.

Here's a graph of manuel inputting. I guess once its done I don't need to do it anymore anyways so...wasted a little money on the midi interface though.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I guess once its done I don't need to do it anymore anyways so...wasted a little money on the midi interface though.


Well, exactly. Entering the filters certainly isn't something you do every day. Personally, I've never entered filters using a midi. I just enter them by hand. Takes only seconds....

brucek


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Yeps really, was fast.

I realise this is my entire systems responsecurve. I can't seem to get rid of the dip at 63hz. Boosted 5db around that area. I tried with 6db but didn't really change it that much. I'm going to try and boost the overall sub level and then decrease it where the peaks are in hope of raising that dip. Time's run out now though will try later! it's fun and a quick listening test indicated a smoother bass response indeed.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

More tweaking.

A bit confused that my system barely makes any sound between 120-150hz....a whole region missing there.









What do you think sbout the results?


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> What do you think sbout the results?


I would first want to see the 'sub only' graph and then the 'mains only' graph.

brucek


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Oki.

Mains only:








Sub alone with no EQ:








Sub alone with EQ. and 80hz crossover:








Sub alone with EQ. and 150hz crossover:


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

Very interesting.

Certainly the mains alone shows that the room attributes to a dip at 63Hz and a large dip at 150Hz. Not too unusual.

The sub alone though, looks almost as if the crossover is incorrect somehow.... You don't happen to have a local crossover at the sub amp itself set to other than bypass (or max) do you?

Here's an 80dB level showing the sub and mains signal for a 80Hz crossover. Your sub graph with a 150Hz crossover looks more like the target of 80Hz shown below.

Have you tried raising the crossover and seeing how the graphs look of sub + mains at higher than 80Hz crossovers?










brucek


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Thanks alot for the comments.

The dips at 63hz and then 125 hz appearently are inherent room problems. 

Using this formula for fiding room modes: 
F=m1130/2D 

F = frequency 
m = mode harmonic first second etc 
D = distance between two parallel surfaces 
1130 = approx speed of sound 


feet	12,80	19,36	7,87
1	44,16	29,19	71,76
2	88,31	58,38	143,51
3	132,47	87,57	215,27
4	176,63	116,75	287,02

Sorta shows those frequencies I got problems with, the 44 hz and ~ 58 and 71 hz, albiet mines at 63 really. Well thats theory I guess. Interresting nontheless.

I'm going to try and alter the crossover frequency for the whole system and see what it does. From the top of my head I believe I did that but dont have a graph right now.

Btw!
Discovered an entirely new problem. For music I select "pure direct" on my reciever. I then measured with the EW filter on and the readings are now way off. Also the db level i smuch higher - it's as if the reciever directs more power to the frontspeakers when they operate alone. This makes it hard to make one setting. Alas, I'm going to make another setting on the BFD for music listening.

Doesnt anyone else also find this a problem? with different levels depending on what setting your reciever is on?

/claus


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## clubfoot (Apr 12, 2007)

clausdk said:


> Btw!
> Discovered an entirely new problem. For music I select "pure direct" on my reciever. I then measured with the EW filter on and the readings are now way off. Also the db level i smuch higher - it's as if the reciever directs more power to the frontspeakers when they operate alone. This makes it hard to make one setting. Alas, I'm going to make another setting on the BFD for music listening.
> 
> Doesnt anyone else also find this a problem? with different levels depending on what setting your reciever is on?
> ...


Yes, most definitely. Pure Direct on my Integra 8.3 (used as a pre/pro only) shuts down the video section, disables "most" of the signal processing and sets the fronts to large w/o sub. When calibrating my sub I have to set all speakers to small, stereo with sub, peak bass limiter off, sub xover to max to get a really nice curve that follows the 80Hz target. If I change it to Pro Logic II Music it looks completely different, however Movie mode looks allot like stereo! Go figure.


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Ok glad to hear that actually, then im not alone 

Working great for movies now still working on music settings.

Strongly considering a new sub though! 
I feel I'm missing completely out on any sub 28hz material!

Btw, going off to work for a week, so out of the house, will do more tests next week. (gotta make some money to pay for this passion of mine!)


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Finally got my PB12+ piano finish!

Holy cow what a big sub! They weren't kidding about the weight either. Almost hurt my back with this thing barely being able to get it out of the box singlehandedly. I was quite easy to scoot around the floor luckily and I tried 3 corners + middle next to coach. Best position was just beside the sofa left of the listening position. I tried using fase control etc, however didn't get any noticeble results. I tried differen crossovers and they changed little as well.

Here's the sub alone at 150 hz crossover and no EQ. I turned out that the initial corner where the CHT 10 was delivered next to nothing below 28 hz!! go figure!








Here's the sub with 80 hz crossover and EQ:









Here's the sub + mains with EQ 80 hz crossover:








It's been more difficult to EQ the PB12+. I will work alot more on it though. I need more training using the EQ filters. I need to use less and be more effective with them. 

Sound experiences(very initial observations):

* Movies
Well, my couch is shaking a whole lot more hehe - the CHT-10 wasn't a subwoofer that's my first response!

* Music
Blends extremely well with the mains. Calls no attention, appears fast and delivers what I should and no more. 

I need to watch some full movies and alot more music and tweak a whole lot more before I can give any sorta of final conclusion.

For now I'm satisfied it's definately an upgrade from the CHT-10 without a doubt.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Here's the sub with 80 hz crossover and EQ:


Graphs 2 and 3 are identical. You have the mains on in graph 2 for sure....... You should start your EQ'ing with the mains shut off. Then when the EQ'ing is done, add the mains and check with the phase control for a smooth transition at ~80Hz..

Either way, that's a better response than the first plot.....

brucek


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> I tried 3 corners + middle next to coach. Best position was just beside the sofa left of the listening position. Here's the sub alone at 150 hz crossover and no EQ.


Holy cow! :yikes: I’m typically not adverse to aggressive equalization, but that’s an unequalizable curve, as far as I’m concerned. I’m surprised you got end results as good as you did.

Your room isn’t all that big, at least based on the diagram you showed us at Post #4 way back on the 1st page. And it’s obvious that the brick-wall response at 30 Hz you had before isn’t indigenous to the subwoofer. _This_ sub should have no problem hitting below 20 Hz in a 1700 cu. ft. room with little or no EQ down there. Obviously something’s amiss. Your picture makes it look like your room is a typical rectangular “shoebox,” with no openings. Is there something else we need to know and consider?








I’d be interested in seeing your corner graphs. I know you mentioned before that you and your friend “both agreed that the corner placement added most punch, however at the expense of a very uneven response curve.” But I can’t imagine response being more “uneven” than this! Very often what we find with corner placement isn’t necessarily the best response, but response that’s the most equalizable. Typically the best corner is the one with the longest lengths of interrupted wall in both directions, but according to your room picture, you have no shortage of those. Again, is there something about your room I’m missing? (I didn’t read each and every post from these four pages, so I might have missed something mentioned before.)

Don’t mean to deflate your balloon – just think you should be getting a lot more from _this_ sub in _this_ room.



> I tried using fase control etc, however didn't get any noticeble results.


I’ve noticed that we hear that a lot, to the point that I wonder if the thing even works! In your situation, with the sub right next to the couch, it should make a difference. But maybe the distance between it and the mains is more than the phase control is capable of.

Regards,
Wayne


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

First of all, love this forum 

I edited the post above, it seems I've added the same graph twice, sorry about that, the sub with eq and 80 hz crossover should be there now. I did EQ the sub alone and made only minor changed after adding in the mains.

Regarding the room, here's a picture of the possible locations I've got to choose from:
*Pos. 1: *Seemed to be the best spot for the CHT-10 as the performance of the sub was down to 28 hz so I figured it all added up when the tests I did there for this sub rounded off at 28 hz.
Scarely enough so did the PB12+ in that corner, which left me dissapointed and puzzled!
*Pos. 2: * Had the best 10hz-25 hz response, but some hard dips around 40ish and 60ish. 
*Pos 3: * Can't remember for sure, but do recall it being the least best of the 4 I tried.
*Pos 4: * Where the sub is now. Had decent response below 25 hz and only one serious dip.
I didnt save those graphs actually, perhaps I should've so I could show them, but what I found was that where the sub is now seemed to be the best comprimise.
About the room - added some more furniture but it's nothing I think could cause any problems really.








To be honest I was quite dissapointed because I wanted the down low frequency, was one of the reasons I upgraded to this sub and it seemed my room was eating them all up. I made the REW program (wonderful tool!) make a sin wave at 20 hz. I then proceeded to walk around the room with my SPL meter and surely there was alot of 20hz db going on! Just not at the listening position. I did this test to make sure the sub actually worked. Even 15 hz was noticeble at various spots around the room.

Here's some unwrapping pictures(don't mind the mess/cables and all the test material)!
Thats gonna break my back?







So nice!







Corner at hifi







Current position









I'm going to recheck something shortly and that is the cal. file for the SPL meter. I wan't to make sure its set correctly. Other than that I do believe im running the REW program accurately.

We're building ourselves a new house! here's a preview of what the living room will look like:








It's bigger better and most of all, no immediate nabours! can't wait :=)

Oh yea! and btw, I REALLY did hurt my back on this thing, seriously....was alone handling it, holy cow....hope I get better today since I might wanna move it around and reinstall some cabling.

Lol, subwoofing is dangerous :joke:

PS: More on sound quality. Watched the "number 23" last night and the overall sound is alot more immersive, really. More punchy and scary. It is surely a step up from the CHT-10. I just wonder if I can get even more out of it of course.


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## clubfoot (Apr 12, 2007)

I think sitting so close to the back wall is your main problem and check to make sure you don't have some type of "peak bass limiter" engaged in your processor, that drop off is too steep to be natural. As an experiment leave the sub where it is and take a measurement 2/3 of length (18') of your room between the table and the chair in your diagram and post the result.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

That would more correctly be a high pass or rumble filter, but yes I would definitely check your receiver’s or processor’s menu for the presence of one.

Also, you might regret limiting your sub to one location in your new place, since you have no idea which position will perform the best. I’d run in-wall cables for at least 3-4 viable locations. That will let you use the one that ends up working best, without a visible cable draped across the floor.

Regards,
Wayne


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

I'll double check the reciever, I don't believe any limiter is engaged. However there is such a feature in it I think.

Regarding my new home - I was trying to figure out how to hide the cables for the sub as I knew I couldnt guess on beforehand where I would perform best. Hmm I might just run cables for 4 spots then. I'll be sure to put electrical outputs in all corners too then.

Moving in about 1.5 months to a temperary home since my girlfriend got another job other side of Denmark so we'll have to stay there for 6 months and THEN my friend, THEN it's time for my to enter the REAL playground of subwoofing when I finally move into my own **** house!

Any of you ever lived in an apartment and then also at the same time love hifi? argh, it's frustration not being able to let it all loose if only for one song! My nabours are very patient though and I never got a complaint.

I am considering getting a better microphone as well. Been trying to look up some of the mics here on the site, but havent found one in Denmark yet, but there must be one around.

I'll try and work some more with it when I get some sparetime.

/claus


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

The microphone and its preamp that we recommend for the best response and price is the Behringer ECM8000 + Xenyx 802. They sell Behringer products in music supply stores where they sell guitars etc. Most cities have one of those shops.
We have a mic calibration file for it in our download section.

brucek


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

You can also get a calibrated mic and preamp kit from IBF Acoustic, www.ibf-acoustic.com


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Small update. Moving in 6 weeks to a temporary apartment before our house is finished! I'll readjust once I use the sub in that room. Until then I'm going to use my current setup which is really good.

Enjoying movies to the full, can't wait until "300" comes out!


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## clubfoot (Apr 12, 2007)

clausdk said:


> Small update. Moving in 6 weeks to a temporary apartment before our house is finished! I'll readjust once I use the sub in that room. Until then I'm going to use my current setup which is really good.
> 
> Enjoying movies to the full, can't wait until "300" comes out!


300 is already out on DVD!


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## clausdk (Jun 28, 2007)

Small update.

My Behringer 1124 won't turn on as of today! It's a disaster!

I was watching X-men the last stand yesterday and I agreed with myself that the bass was wonderful, tight and precise!

Today I tried it without the Behringer and believe me when I say this was like night and day. I think it's because I've been used to the bass with EQ on for some weeks now, then suddenly going back to non EQ'd you realise the difference. TO be honest the bass was boomy and loose and not detailed. In the scene where they practice in virtual reality there is a big "machine" of sorts and it tramps before Wolverine is trown at it. That tramp was really impressive with the EQ on but not it's nothing more than a boomy annoying experience!

Conclusion - I need my Behringer repaired ASAP!!!!


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