# just bought new projector..quick question



## chirochris (Dec 26, 2011)

so after long review, i decided on epson 3010..for a few reasons...price was great , came with 2 pair glasses and my set up was perfect for this...


so my question-- with a 106 inch screen would a 15 ft distance with a ceiling mount be ok?

i cant really understand what the rule of thumb is on this...i looked at the info on projector central and i get confused..

what would be the best distance?...i can do any distance


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Carlton Bale made a great excel worksheet for setting up a home theater. You can download it here and see how it compares to what you would like to do. :T


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## chirochris (Dec 26, 2011)

I looked at that...that is way to confusing...i have no clue even were to begin with that..

This can not be that difficult...106 inch screen, ceiling mount, epson 3010 ..

Anyone?..


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

Welcome to the forum. The owners' manual should guide you on proper mounting distance. There is no "rule of thumb." Mounting distance depends upon the screen size, screen gain, screen aspect ratio, the characteristics of the projector's lens, how much the extremes of the zoom range affect light output, etc.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Have a look here, this should get you going.


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## chirochris (Dec 26, 2011)

i have looked at projector central and used that chart...i am still unsure of best distance..it goes from green to red in the graph at bottom then says something about ambient light..

can someone who knows this stuff take a look or help me out..here is my info

106 tab tension screen (diag)
1.0 gain matte white screen
12x 20 room
single seat couch
full light cntrol
epson 3010 3d projector..2400 lumens, 40000:1 contrast ..NO VARIABLE IRIS


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

chirochris said:


> i have looked at projector central and used that chart...i am still unsure of best distance..it goes from green to red in the graph at bottom then says something about ambient light..
> 
> can someone who knows this stuff take a look or help me out..here is my info
> 
> ...


The yellow to the left means that you are under the recommended foot lamberts, the green is ideal and the red is above ideal. Your setup lands in the red so you'll have some lumens to spare. Punching in a few of your numbers into the calculator I linked to above, 15 feet back would be a bit far back. If it were the second row it would be fine but I believe you'll want to be in the 10'6"-12' range. THX recommends screen size *divided* by .84. That's roughly 10'6". Put it there or slightly closer. You can always move it back.


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## chirochris (Dec 26, 2011)

you are talking about were to sit?.. i am asking were to put the projector for best picture with those parameters...my seating area is about 11-12 ft away from screen...i havent installed projector yet because i cant understand best distance....i used the link to projector central..and it gets confusing..not sure what to put were...if i put in a diagonal of 106(assuming this means screen) it gives a range..im confused ..says 15.8 ft..that sounds rt?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

do you have the projector already? If you do use painters tape and mask the screen size you like on the wall and then place the projector on a table at the 15ft mark. Now simply turn on the projector and make sure that you have the zoom out as far as it will go. Then move the projector forward or back to where the image fits just outside the screen you are using. Thats where you want to mount it on your ceiling.


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

mechman said:


> The yellow to the left means that you are under the recommended foot lamberts, the green is ideal and the red is above ideal. Your setup lands in the red so you'll have some lumens to spare. Punching in a few of your numbers into the calculator I linked to above, 15 feet back would be a bit far back. If it were the second row it would be fine but I believe you'll want to be in the 10'6"-12' range. THX recommends screen size multiplied by .84. That's roughly 10'6". Put it there or slightly closer. You can always move it back.


When are you referring to seating distance and when are you referring to lens distance? The THX recommendation is for seating distance in a film theater. Film has no pixel grid structure in the image like digital video does. The digital video industry world standards bodies use 1.5 times the diagonal or 3 times the screen height (16 x 9 aspect ratio). At that distance, the average viewer will be able to perceive maximum detail in the image, but not detect the pixel grid from the projector's imager chip set. 

THX is not a standards body. They adapt what they recommend from world standards bodies, according to their own methodology, as consultants to many segments of the entertainment field. Context is everything when interpreting how to apply what they say.


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## chirochris (Dec 26, 2011)

i have everything...its all installed except projector because i cant understand what would be the best distance...i have put it anywhere so want to make sure i do the best i possible can...

so put screen down, put projector at 15 ft , turn on , zoom out , move projector until picture is out side of the screen alittle, this is the spot..mount and then adjust zoom correctly?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Yes, Thats the simplest way and gives you the brightest image.


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## mjg100 (Mar 12, 2008)

Projector Central's calculator often times is not very accurate. The best thing to do is to read reviews to find out the actual lumens the projector puts out, read about your screen and find out it's actual gain and then calculate the Foot Lamberts. If you do not want to do that then, I would recommend this calculator http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/ at least this guy is trying to use measured results rather than manufacturers lumen numbers.

To answer your question, 15' throw onto a 1.0 gain (assumed since you did not give gain) works fine once you get a few hours on the lamp. The projector will be a little bright in 2D, but gives good Foot Lambert numbers for 3D. You could improve the 2D by placing an ND2 filter in front of the projector lens and remove the ND2 filter when watching 3D. The ND2 filter will reduce the light output and increase the black levels. ND2 filters are cheap and easy to place in front of a projector lens.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

Alan Brown said:


> The THX recommendation is for seating distance in a film theater.


Actually Alan, it's from their Home Entertainment - HDTV Setup page.

And I misstated it as 'multiplied by' when it should have been 'divided by'. I corrected the error. Thanks for catching that! :T 

Using this formula - 106/.84= 126.19" or 12'6"

Using the digital video formula - 52"*3/12= 13' or 106*1.5/12 = 13.25'

They are all pretty close.


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## mechman (Feb 8, 2007)

mjg100 said:


> Projector Central's calculator often times is not very accurate. The best thing to do is to read reviews to find out the actual lumens the projector puts out, read about your screen and find out it's actual gain and then calculate the Foot Lamberts. If you do not want to do that then, I would recommend this calculator http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/ at least this guy is trying to use measured results rather than manufacturers lumen numbers.
> 
> To answer your question, 15' throw onto a 1.0 gain (assumed since you did not give gain) works fine once you get a few hours on the lamp. The projector will be a little bright in 2D, but gives good Foot Lambert numbers for 3D. You could improve the 2D by placing an ND2 filter in front of the projector lens and remove the ND2 filter when watching 3D. The ND2 filter will reduce the light output and increase the black levels. ND2 filters are cheap and easy to place in front of a projector lens.


Nice link!


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## Alan Brown (Jun 7, 2006)

mechman said:


> Actually Alan, it's from their Home Entertainment - HDTV Setup page.
> 
> And I misstated it as 'multiplied by' when it should have been 'divided by'. I corrected the error. Thanks for catching that! :T
> 
> ...


I'm very aware of when, how and where THX makes this recommendation. They are more focused on image width (panorama for a sense of immersion) than on pixel detection. Many consumers are willing to put up with pixel detection for the sake of increasing image size. I'm not in that camp, nor do I promote such a perspective in the marketplace. We all decide on what priorities fit our needs and preferences the best. My concern is that my customers be given all the facts, so their judgements and conclusions are adequately informed ones. 

Focus group research, marketing, and hyperbole aren't intended to provide the whole context, just enough information to sell a product or idea to a large segment of consumers. My focus is on image fidelity. I am an advocate for imaging science, display industry standards/recommended practices, and the energetic pursuit of cinematic excellence in the home. It's not just about the gear, but, as Joe Kane persists in saying, "It's all about the art."

Since THX is not a standards body, but largely a consulting and marketing company, there's room for disagreement on recommendations. I have a lot of respect for THX as a whole. Some of what they do can be debated as to its value. I have been certified by THX since 2002 and served as a consultant in the development of their training more recently. We still disagree on seating distance recommendations. I find pixel definition/recognition in the image to be distracting, annoying, and disrupting to a sense of immersion. This is regardless of the size of the picture.

The ATSC/SMPTE/ITU/etc. 30 degree viewing angle is a general recommendation, not a standard. It's based upon human perceptual science studies and average visual acuity. In my practical experience, this recommendation fits with my visual acuity rather well. It also has fit with most of my clients' visual acuity. There are other variables in system components that can render the image less sharp or diminish the recognition of a pixel grid. These can include one or more of these kinds of elements: inferior optics, a coarse or perforated screen surface, finer resolution than 1920 x 1080, reduced spacing between pixels, poor 3-chip display pixel registration/alignment, etc. I find that I tend to sit farther away from a softened image, rather than closer to it. Increased size of image is not as important to me as a realistically sharp one.

Another formula for determining a 30 degree viewing angle is:
Viewing Distance x .5359 = Screen Width
or
SW x 1.866 = VD

Best regards and beautiful pictures,
Alan Brown, President
CinemaQuest, Inc.
A Lion AV Consultants affiliate

"Advancing the art and science of electronic imaging"


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

If you have a white wall I suggest starting with the projector in the middle of it's zoom range and seeing what size you prefer on it before getting a screen. I've found myself getting smaller screens because of eyestrain. This approach really helped me get it right before I bought.


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## pfiore (Jan 9, 2012)

Isn't the 3010 a little more difficult to setup since it doesn't have lens shift?


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## chirochris (Dec 26, 2011)

lens shift is needed if you cant control location of projector..i can control the location and height since it is a new install...


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