# Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1 or Yamaha RX-V665



## i_am_legend (Jan 9, 2010)

Just trying to decide which between these two would be the way to go? Harman Kardon HK AVR 254 7.1, or Yahama RX-V655 7.2.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I would personally go with the Yamaha. While H/K makes a good product, there still have been more issues then I would like to see with people I know who own the model.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

I have actually owned both a Yamaha and Harman Kardon and would recommend the 254. Admittedly, this line of receivers did experience certain issues at the initial release of the line but has largely been resolved. The 254 is a killer receiver with a ton of features. The overall sound put out by the H/K was noticeably different (better) from the Yamaha. It's a much warmer and more natural sound. Plus it's a stylish looking devil. Good luck. You ultimately won't be disappointed by either.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Toby Jack said:


> I have actually owned both a Yamaha and Harman Kardon and would recommend the 254. Admittedly, this line of receivers did experience certain issues at the initial release of the line but has largely been resolved. The 254 is a killer receiver with a ton of features. The overall sound put out by the H/K was noticeably different (better) from the Yamaha. It's a much warmer and more natural sound. Plus it's a stylish looking devil. Good luck. You ultimately won't be disappointed by either.


So you did an ABX test to confirm this? I can tell you there is no audible difference between these receivers in a level matched abx comparison. They are both Solid State amps for crying out loud. 

The 665 is a huge step down from Yamaha's older stuff. I'd go with the Marantz SR4002 in lieu of either. Having owned an HK receiver. I'll never buy another one. Sure it's reliable, but the software stinks and I have a feeling their software development team isn't very good. I have to run optical and component from my ota box because it stinks so bad with hdcp handshakes.


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## Toby Jack (Feb 5, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> So you did an ABX test to confirm this? I can tell you there is no audible difference between these receivers in a level matched abx comparison. They are both Solid State amps for crying out loud!


You have to use your imagination


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The debate about audible differences between different Manufacturers amplifier sections is a long and contentious one. Regardless of Brand, it is the power supply, amount of capacitance and proper amount of heat sinks that separate the decent from the great.

It the arms race for the most possible features, many Companies have been using less powerful amplifier sections while upping the gadget quotient. It drives me crazy how many AVR's rated at 100 watts x 7 output around 30 watts when bench tested. That is not to say that people need 100 watts per channel to achieve desired levels. Some might depending on room size and difficult to drive speakers, but the vast majority do not need anywhere near 100 WPC.

With all of the Room EQ's, listening modes, etc, it is difficult to compare 2 AVR's at the same level. I will say that 100 times out of 100 people will prefer the louder selection when blind or ABX tested. This is why the question of the models being level matched is so important as most of the terms ascribed to the louder device (warmer, better soundstage, etc) have been repeatedly tested to show that louder equals better when A/B choices are made.

I will just say that I highly value large power supplies and high levels of capacitance. This is almost mandatory due to the Speakers that I use. Electrostatic Speakers are quite demanding of amplifiers and most AVR's have difficulty driving them to reference levels. However, Onkyo's TX-SR 805,875,876,905,906,3007 and 5007 all have impressive amplifier sections for AVR's Many of the flagship models of other manufacturers also can do well. However, in the sub 2k arena, Onkyo really does come the closest to meeting the rated performance. I still just use my Onkyo as a SSP because I own several high powered outboard amplifiers. However, I would not be hesitant to use the Onkyo to drive the Center Channel or Surrounds if the need arose.

Here is the bench test for the TX-SR875:http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/2463/test-bench-onkyo-tx-sr875-av-receiver.html
Here is the bench test for the Pioneer VSX-1019: http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/pioneer_vsx-1019ah_av_receiver/index4.html

Granted the MSRP of these products is vast, the rated power for both is not. Most entry level AVR's have output mirroring the Pioneer. Onkyo's TX-SR805 was a diamond as it shared the same amplifier section as the TX-SR875 referenced to above. The TX-SR806 no longer shared the amplifier section as the 876 nor the same DAC's and Audyssey MultEQ XT like the 805 had. This is again why I believe the TX-SR805 to be the best value AVR of modern times.
Cheers,
JJ


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

The non-assignable digital audio input is a weird move on the Yamaha model - seems abit limiting. I've also heard that the sound quality of this particular model was a let-down.
That's not to say that the H/K 254 hasn't had its problems, alot of which are handshake related and software. If you get the opportunity to tinker with either receiver, you should do so as I think that it'll come down to personal preference as to function and form.
With that said, I'd prolly get the H/K.


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## subzero (Jan 25, 2010)

Well, I think that it'll come down to personal preference as to function and form.


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## KASR (Jun 9, 2009)

subzero said:


> Well, I think that it'll come down to personal preference as to function and form.


Agreed. I think either way, the speakers will really determine the sound he achieves.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The debate about audible differences between different Manufacturers amplifier sections is a long and contentious one. Regardless of Brand, it is the power supply, amount of capacitance and proper amount of heat sinks that separate the decent from the great.
> 
> It the arms race for the most possible features, many Companies have been using less powerful amplifier sections while upping the gadget quotient. It drives me crazy how many AVR's rated at 100 watts x 7 output around 30 watts when bench tested. That is not to say that people need 100 watts per channel to achieve desired levels. Some might depending on room size and difficult to drive speakers, but the vast majority do not need anywhere near 100 WPC.
> ...


For electrostatics I suggest Quad amps. They are very stable. I'll say I went with the 247 because I'm using it mostly for pre-processing long term. No need to shell it out if you plan the same.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I am a big fan of Quad Amplifiers as well. I have been beyond pleased with my Parasound HCA-2205AT running my Center and Surround Channels. I have used the 2205AT to run all 5 Channels to excellent effect. It is just that I have the other 2 amplifiers. For my Vantages, I have been switching between my Parasound HCA-3500 and a Aragon 8008BB. Both of these are ultra stable and high powered.
Cheers,
JJ


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