# My HUGE center channel under construction from RAW Acoustics ~50" wide, 3-way, ribbon tweeter



## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

I am a HUGE Creative Sound Solutions (CSS) fan and when Bob at CSS put their demo line arrays up for sale last fall, I could not resist. I rented a Yukon XL and road tripped to the Canadian border with my wife to pick them up. I've been in love ever since! We picked up the matching rear towers as well, just needed a center channel...








Open baffle sub towers have been replaced with a single Rythmik FV15HP in the corner to free up placement of the line arrays.









My goal was to have an all-out performer capable of keeping up with the Lambda Plus towers and able to dig deep if needed (the self-powered 8's in the Lambda Plus arrays are a force to be reckoned with...added to the Rythmik, bass performance is fantastic). Although RAW closed its doors in 2009, Al agreed to build the center for me after I reached out to him on diyaudio, very nice guy! Sounds like he will start building other systems soon which is great, I'm already saving up for two more side channels to make my system 7.1.

Al at RAW recommended four of the new CSS LDW7 woofers, two Wavecor 120 mids and the new CSS RT2 ribbon. He posted progress pictures recently on diyaudio and I thought I'd share them here because I am so excited to hear the finished product alongside the rest of my RAW lineup. I'm picking it up from Al's in British Columbia in a few weeks and I will be sure to document the journey.

Rough layout:









Top view of cabinet with all braces and slot ports:









Assembled cabinet compared to PE .5cft cabinet V2 speaker:









Full assembled down for 50-60 hrs of break in before crossover design:









Matching Sapele Pommele ribbon veneer:









Enjoy!


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Wow those look killer. Great setup. Is that an OB subwoofer system?


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

It is, six Acoustic Elegance OB15 drivers powered by a Peavey IPR3000DSP. They've all since been sold to free up space but by far my favorite sounding low end that I have ever heard.


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

That's a nice set up. Pretty good looking speakers as well. I'm hoping to one day audition those speakers. They look mean! :T


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Happy to demo for you or anyone else if you're ever in the Seattle area.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

SO what are you using for subs then?

Does it even compare to your old OB setup?


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

I now use a single Rythmik FV15HP in the left corner. The Rythmik servo system is the closest I have heard to the transparency and "feel" of open baffle bass but it will also pressurize the room which is fun for movies.

Having said that, I do dearly miss the OB setup and I don't think I'll be able to find that same sound without going back to it. I'm now planning a dedicated two channel system for our next home which will have Acoustic Elegance Dipole15 drivers to match the RAAL dipole ribbons and AE Dipole6 mids I have stored in my office closet. Can't wait


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

That is impressive looking I'm sure it will sound awesome as well. The wait must be killing you, could you tell us how much it will cost?


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

B- one said:


> That is impressive looking I'm sure it will sound awesome as well. The wait must be killing you, could you tell us how much it will cost?


I'd contact Al at RAW, [email protected] to get a quote if you are interested. Because of how customized these can get, the price for mine probably isn't a good indicator of other options (for example, my veneer was $250 just for the raw material directly from the supplier but a regular matte finish would be a big cost savings if desired).

He does a smaller design as well with two woofers, one mid and one ribbon. You can even choose your binding post and plate finishes, it was a fun process  Yes, I can't wait to hear it but for Al's workmanship I don't mind the wait one bit.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Architect7 said:


> I'd contact Al at RAW, [email protected] to get a quote if you are interested. Because of how customized these can get, the price for mine probably isn't a good indicator of other options (for example, my veneer was $250 just for the raw material directly from the supplier but a regular matte finish would be a big cost savings if desired). He does a smaller design as well with two woofers, one mid and one ribbon. You can even choose your binding post and plate finishes, it was a fun process  Yes, I can't wait to hear it but for Al's workmanship I don't mind the wait one bit.


If I did that I would need the rest of my speakers to match. And I don't think the wife would go for that. Our center was around $800 so I can only wonder how high yours will finish at. Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Haha, you're OCD like me, otherwise I would have skipped the matching veneer. You'd be surprised how reasonable his rates are and the new Triton kits are going to be incredible.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Veneer is on! I talked to Al over the weekend and the speaker is now at the cabinet maker's for sanding/finishing. I am extremely excited!!!


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

chrapladm said:


> Wow those look killer. Great setup. Is that an OB subwoofer system?


No the Apex C is a twin slot ported design tuned to just below 30HZ... 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/12527331805/in/set-72157639877858246/

Find some more info here

Ya I have been out for a few years but been busy for the last few years designing for several companies.
A lot for CSS with 10 more designs coming for CSS.As I do not have my shop anylonger it is a lot of work for me to build one off projects.I did this Apex C in the same veneer to match the Lambda arrays I did for CSS years which we took to RMAF 2004 with Dan Wiggins..


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Frequency response from 0 to 40 off axis horizontally. 

These Apex C ranged from 1600.00 up depending on the veneer as well as crossover components.


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## chrapladm (Jun 17, 2009)

Looks pretty awesome down to 50hz. :T

I would have loved to have chatted with Dan Wiggins. Jealous of you there.


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks ya in room as you can see not too bad 

Dan Wiggins yes I spent many days driving down to spend even 2hrs with Dan learning Praxis how to use and do acoustic measurements then also LSPCAD Pro.Dan was someone who I could spend a lot of time with and he was more than generous to show me whatever i wanted to learn.

Nothing like driving across the border driving to Lynnwood (2hr drive including clearing customs) to spend 2 or 3hrs with him some times 2 times a week.

Man well over 10yrs ago now..


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Architect7 said:


> Haha, you're OCD like me, otherwise I would have skipped the matching veneer. You'd be surprised how reasonable his rates are and the new Triton kits are going to be incredible.


Just noticed you said Triton no correction the new kits are CRITON 1 and Criton 2 each using a pair of the LDW7 woofers in a sealed cabinet tuned to 57hz.And the MLTL plans are just finishing which will put them down in the low 30hz range easy.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

RAW said:


> Just noticed you said Triton no correction the new kits are CRITON 1 and Criton 2 each using a pair of the LDW7 woofers in a sealed cabinet tuned to 57hz.And the MLTL plans are just finishing which will put them down in the low 30hz range easy.


Ha, thanks for catching that, major typo on my part.


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## chrismdon (Jan 4, 2014)

Awesome setup!


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Very nice. Have never had a chance to work with a nice line array.

Enjoy!


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Very impressive work sir! That is a beautiful looking center.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Here we see the Apex C II in its natural habitat receiving finishing touches:


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Totally lucked out by finding a Lovan M2 center channel stand on Craigslist, it will be perfect for the Apex C II:


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## brian_smith06 (May 22, 2013)

Still admiring this center build. Been watching on the other forum. It actually brought me back to this one


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Come get this speaker will ya 

See ya soon.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

RAW said:


> Come get this speaker will ya
> 
> See ya soon.


Haha, yes sir! Can't wait!!!


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Hum which combo of APEX C shall I use today! SDX7 (original Apex C) Wavecor-LDW7 CSS woofers 


























Crossovers during installation
Tweeter crossover









Midwoofer crossover









Woofer crossover









Assembled making some NOISE


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Wowowow I am BEYOND excited! Now I need to figure out what I will watch first with it. First world problems


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)




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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

All finished ready for pick up


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

Wow that's nice!


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Thanks for kind words.
Not like I use to be able to do and working with limited tools and time it all works out.

Al


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Brought the Apex C II home today, wow it is bigger, heavier and more awesome than I could have ever imagined. We watched The Lego Movie on it after some quick settings changes and wow it sounds good. This thing could be its own subwoofer for lower level listening! Aimed up it throws a huge image across the screen and fits very well with the towers. I could not be happier with how it turned out and I look forward to having it for years and years to come; this is one of those high end pieces that is passed down from generation to generation like a McInosh amp or nice watch. Currently biamping it with two bridged channels from a Rotel RB-976 so 150x2/300w RMS total. Now for pics!

With super light MDF magnet grill:









Naked:









As you can see, it is WAY too big for the Lovan stand, whoops! Back to the drawing board on that one...


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

That's beautiful indeed! How much was the final cost?


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

What's the final weight? Looks like a two man job just to be safe, I'm sure you don't want any scratches.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Yep, definitely a two man job. It took both Al and myself to load it into my truck, then I used a hand truck to move it into my living room. I am guessing it is over 100lbs., I plan to weigh it today for fun


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

What was the final cost?


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

JBrax said:


> What was the final cost?


For pricing I recommend contacting Al (RAW) if you are interested in one since these are so customized (drivers, ribbons, crossover components, terminals, biamp, baffle curve, grill, port design, veneer, etc).


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

MY guess is close to 100lbs yes.Double thick front baffle for 1.5" thick. Dual slot port tuned just at 30hz.

Final cost for these is around $2000.00 with some of the upgrades I did for this speaker.
I personally like the Apex series and would love to do one of the Apex III with the new Wavecore woofers and mids like I used in this Apex C.

Enjoy and happy listening.Good to hear you had no issues getting back across the boarder..


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks Al! The border agent was pretty impressed at the size of it haha. Can't wait to fire it up again today, we are still amazed at how big the image is with this thing. It feels like one big wall of sound across the entire front of the room now, no gaps when action moves across the screen. Amazing!


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Again that is a beautiful speaker and $2,000 seems like a pretty good deal. I'd love to hear and see it in person.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Do you have the dimensions?


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

JBrax said:


> Do you have the dimensions?


44in wide x 16in deep x 11in tall


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Architect7 said:


> 44in wide x 16in deep x 11in tall


Wow! That thing is HUGE! I've got a new center awaiting to be installed in my setup (RC-64 II) and I thought it was large. Yours is 8" wider, 3" deeper, and 3" taller. I'm sitting here looking at mine and envisioning what you have and that's just incredible. I bet it sounds amazing. What did you have before as a center?


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Yeah it is giant, we just barely fit it in the back seat of my crew cab truck. It is closer in size to my line arrays than I originally thought which is awesome! I did not have a center before, just did phantom with the Lambda arrays which they did quite well but nothing compared to this.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

You enjoy that center. It's quite impressive and something to be proud of no doubt.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

Thanks! Yeah it turned out better than I possibly could have imagined all thanks to Al. Talk about a guy who is truly passionate about home audio and keeps you updated and involved on the build process as if it were your own child. Okay off to watch another movie


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

JBrax said:


> Again that is a beautiful speaker and $2,000 seems like a pretty good deal. I'd love to hear and see it in person.


Thank yes a good deal for him for sure.I mainly did this as i built the Lamda's line arrays and he really wanted a center to match...
I gave in said OK even though I have no shop any longer,rather just weekend warrior tools :yikes:

Yes these were $2400-$2800 depending on veneer options then the crossover options Caps,Inductors,resistors and last wire.Doing all the tweaks to each individual speaker like designing a crossover for each speaker like this are a lot of work.And I love the challenges with doing this.


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

We watched "We Bought a Zoo" last night, the lion, tiger and bear growls were incredible on the Apex C II. Like hit you in the chest huge, sounded like no center I have ever heard (obviously, this is the biggest center I've ever seen in person ). This thing digs so low!!! Time to watch some more movies today


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

I built a new platform for the Lovan stand to fit the larger footprint of the Apex C II:


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Architect7 said:


> I built a new platform for the Lovan stand to fit the larger footprint of the Apex C II:


Very nice!


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

I've had quite a few people ask about how to buy something like my center. Al has informed me that it is configurable as both a vertical tower as well as horizontal center like mine. Here's the kit info if you have the ability to build your own cabinet.

_I will make kits for this if anyone is interested.
1-CSS RT ribbon tweeter
2-Wavecor mids
4_LDW7 Wavecor Woofers
Crossover parts 16G air core inductors,Mundorf Capacitors plus Mills resistor for the tweeter crossover
Teflon Silver 16Wire,Silver Solder,Screws Gaskets,Tie straps for crossover parts
Cabinet plans with crossover plans all info on a DVD.
$1145.00_
Al can be contacted via username RAW on here.

After a couple weeks with this center, I am still enjoying every new viewing experience. This thing is crystal clear and plays LOUD with no audible distortion. I continue to be impressed every time I use it!


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## HiroPro (Jul 18, 2012)

Your cat sitting on what looks to be a preamp or HTPC case gave me a big chuckle!










Nice center channel BTW!


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## HiroPro (Jul 18, 2012)

Architect7 said:


> I've had quite a few people ask about how to buy something like my center. Al has informed me that it is configurable as both a vertical tower as well as horizontal center like mine. Here's the kit info if you have the ability to build your own cabinet.
> 
> _I will make kits for this if anyone is interested.
> 1-CSS RT ribbon tweeter
> ...


Do you know the sensitivity and also the impedance?

How does the 4 woofer vs. two woofer compare in impedance and sensitivity?


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## HiroPro (Jul 18, 2012)

It's using the 120mm Wavecor midrange drivers right?

That must be a very nice sounding center!


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Excellent looking build - man now I have a bad case of the DIY build bug.......

LOVE the Arrays AND the OB Subs.... my next project will be OB subs.... though Im dying to go all in on some B&G NEO 10s for the array LCR and subsequent surrounds .... The Dayton PT2C-8 is still my fav high end though...


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Above is 0-40 off axis Horizontally which is VERy good for such a large 3way center.

Below is the 20 and 40 off axis VERTICAL yes vertical for the APEX C Wavecor build. Another words standing in the middle of the speaker standing 3feet back and the mic was placed at 52" off the floor.










Now impedance you ask for below









SPL for the APEX C wavecor is 88db 
Yes all Wavecor drivers plus the CSS Ribbon tweeter from Arum Cantus.


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Glad to hear you are living large....


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## HiroPro (Jul 18, 2012)

RAW said:


> Glad to hear you are living large....


Hi RAW,

How much am I looking at for say a set of LCR in black?


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## Architect7 (Apr 9, 2012)

HiroPro said:


> Your cat sitting on what looks to be a preamp or HTPC case gave me a big chuckle!
> 
> Nice center channel BTW!


That was my Rotel RSX-1056 before I got my Anthem. Great cat heater! Now I have a larger Bello stand with a cat bed and integrated heating pad for her on the very top.


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## HiroPro (Jul 18, 2012)

RAW said:


> Just noticed you said Triton no correction the new kits are CRITON 1 and Criton 2 each using a pair of the LDW7 woofers in a sealed cabinet tuned to 57hz.And the MLTL plans are just finishing which will put them down in the low 30hz range easy.


The MLTL is the MTM design right? Criton2?

What's the impedance on the 4x LDW7 vs the 2x?

Do you think the MLTL for LR would pair with this WWMTMWW design? The MLTL produces a very nice cab in terms of dimensions/depth. A nice WAF speaker...


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

Working on getting you some prices right now.
I take it you are asking for a LCR with all Wavecor plus the ribbon? Or you looking at other driver options?


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## RAW (Feb 25, 2007)

HiroPro said:


> The MLTL is the MTM design right? Criton2?
> 
> What's the impedance on the 4x LDW7 vs the 2x?
> 
> Do you think the MLTL for LR would pair with this WWMTMWW design? The MLTL produces a very nice cab in terms of dimensions/depth. A nice WAF speaker...



Start a new thread or PM me this is going off track of this thread.To keep the thread on topic.:wave:


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