# Fine tuning my sound



## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

I have had my room completed for about a year now and I have never really felt like I am getting the sound that I should be getting. I just do not feel like the surround sound definition is really there. 

To be honest, I am not sure how much of that is due to my speakers and how much of it is due to my acoustics.

Room Information:

The room is about a 14' x 19' room with about a 7.5' ceiling. There is no sound proofing done in the room but with the location of the theater room, I have no issues with sound bothering those outside the room or any other sounds coming in.

As you can see the the pictures linked below, I have a 133" Fixed Screen on the front wall and then I have my 2 HSU VTF-2 Subs on either side of it (you will see one picture with smaller subs, those were my older ones). On the side you will also see my 2 fronts (Mirage Omni OS3 Sats) with a Mirage Omni Center behind the screen (it is an accoustic invisible screen).

On the back walls you will see 4 more Mirage Omni OS3 Sats.

All of the speakers are being run by a new Onkyo TX-NR809 Receiver. 

I would also like to add that all of my speakers are geared towards the center 2 seating positions and the angles are based on recommended positions towards the main seating position.

There is also a door on the side wall leading to the storage room and the components and then a french double door on the back wall.

I know that I may not have the best speakers and I am working on that slowly (I just got the new subs and the receiver) but I do not want this thread to be about my speakers, I want this to be about what I can do in order to improve my sound in my room itself.

So my questions I have (and please, feel free to point out other stuff)

1. I know that my subs should not be in the corner, but I really do not see any other options for them. Would it help if I just pulled them out from the front wall a bit?

2. I have heard of "Traps" and "Panels", would those do a lot of good with my setup?

3. If so, how do I know where to put them?

I will be honest, I do not want to spend a TON of money to tweak this but I would like to do what I can in a cost effective way to help improve my sound in the room.

Any thoughts and suggestions are welcome.

Thank you in advance

P.S. No giving me a hard time about my unpained wires!


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## Tonto (Jun 30, 2007)

Do you have any way to measure the room, laptop, microphone, REW. Knowing what the room is doing will be the biggest thing towards helping. With small speakers, you are right that treating the room will be your best bet. If not, then standard placement will be the best bet, let us know.


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

No I do not have anything to measure.. well I do have a laptop and if I know what to buy/get I will be more than happy to do it if you think it will help.

Can I use my laptop and then the microphone that came with my Onkyo receiver for its self adjustment?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Acoustic treatment to the room will definitely help things..
Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do with bass traps, considering where the front speakers are mounted..
Ideally you need bass traps floor to ceiling to be really effective, but that's not possible in your situation..
Also, the screen is really too big for that size room, which has limited your placement for the front speakers..

My suggestions would be to do the following..

1. Move your front L&R speakers further up the wall to be above the centre line of the screen..
2. Move the subs out from the corners, to leave enough room behind to fit in corner bass traps..
3. Install bass traps in the corners, to just below the new height of the speakers..
4. Fit first and second reflection point acoustic panels on the walls..
5. Place bass traps in the rear wall corners..

All those changes will improve your sound quality quite dramatically..


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

Prof. said:


> Acoustic treatment to the room will definitely help things..
> Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do with bass traps, considering where the front speakers are mounted..
> Ideally you need bass traps floor to ceiling to be really effective, but that's not possible in your situation..
> Also, the screen is really too big for that size room, which has limited your placement for the front speakers..
> ...



I thought I was doing everything right for the front speakers. According to what I read, I wanted them at ear height while seated and I wanted them at a specific angle from the seating position. I specifically made sure all of my speakers were at those "recommended" angles.

Questions based on these recommendations if you do not mind

1. What sort of bass traps? Is there a place I can look at these online? Do they mount on the wall or free standing?

2. Wondering if I will have room to install bass traps on my back corners with that cabinet I have there

3. Kind of the same question as the bass traps, where can I look at sound panels and the big question is how do I know where the reflection points are?

Sorry for the dumb questions. I have tried to investigate this stuff and it is just completely confusing for me.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Cream said:


> I thought I was doing everything right for the front speakers. According to what I read, I wanted them at ear height while seated and I wanted them at a specific angle from the seating position. I specifically made sure all of my speakers were at those "recommended" angles.


Normally that would be fine, but because your screen is so close to the side walls, you have no room to place full size bass traps in the corners..and not much height from floor to speakers..

There are smaller bass traps available and you might want to look at GIK Acoustics for a suitable size bass trap.

Ideally..If you want to have a screen that size, then you really need to consider having a screenwall and use an acoustically transparent screen..
That way you would have all your speakers behind the screen and enough room to properly treat the front wall and fit floor to ceiling bass traps..
Also, when you upgrade your speakers, it will make changing speakers much easier..




> Kind of the same question as the bass traps, where can I look at sound panels and the big question is how do I know where the reflection points are?


The first and second reflection points can be located by placing a small mirror on a side wall, inline with your L&R speakers..Then with someone sitting in your centre seat position, slide the mirror along the wall until a reflection of a speaker can be seen in the mirror..That's your first reflection point and where you would place an acoustic panel..
Then slide the mirror further along the wall until another reflection of the other speaker is seen..That's your second reflection point..


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## Cream (Oct 13, 2010)

bpape said:


> In the front of the room, we'd like to have symmetry left to right. If we can't do one, we don't do the other. In the rear, just one is better than none.
> 
> I would do 3-4 of the panels on each side wall as i said before. If you take the time to map where your reflections are with a mirror, you'll likely be able to cover most of them with the 3 panels.
> 
> For the Tri traps, you only need 17' out from the walls. Only the diagonal face is 24"


Bryan,

Thank you for the help. This weekend I had the chance to use the mirror in the room and I have attached a few pictures to see what I came up with.

First you will notice 2 blue pieces of tape by the screen above the speakers. Those are where the speakers will be moved to in order to make room for the tri traps (btw, I will be putting them in each corner of the room).

You will also notice that on each side wall are 4 pieces of tape and that is the reflection points from the 2 main seating positions to the front speakers, off of both walls.

First question, what can we do about the reflection points on the door and door frame?

I have also included pictures of the back speakers. I was not sure how you would want me to look at reflection points for those. I am wondering if we should just buy sound panels to put on the side walls just behind the right/left surround sound speakers just in front of the rear wall.

I would like to get these ordered as soon as possible, so I just need to work out the details with you about placement and how many I will end up needing. How long does it normally take to get a shipment in once I order? (I will be using standard colors)

Thank You,
Cliff


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