# Smoooothing!



## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Hey guys, any of you know the most relevant smoothing setting for response graphs? I finally got a little QT with my umik. If I use anything above 1/6th it looks way to smooth, but no smoothing makes every hump and bump stand out and make me feel like I need to fix them all. At what point am I splitting hairs?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

For sub graphs (~15-200 Hz), no smoothing. For full-range, 1/3-octave gives the best representation of what response actually sounds like. There is no need to obsess about addressing every little “hump and bump” because they aren’t audible. That’s also the best smoothing to use you’re going to attempt EQing the mains, as you’re going for an _audible_ improvement, not a pretty unsmoothed graph.

Regards,
Wayne


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Or use the variable smoothing, which uses no smoothing below 100 Hz then gradually increases to 1/3 octave at 10 kHz and above.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Thanks guys. I will revisit my graphs soon. Once I post them, I hope to trouble you for input, and see if you can verify some of my suspicions.


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## jcmusic (Oct 26, 2012)

I would like to try this variable smoothing, where is it located?

Found it!!!


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

ok. i'm trying this out. any feedback will go a long way. i'll try to move the limits around. I know the db level is high, but I didn't have time to mess with the levels. I kept getting level too low, and headroom errors. I think I'm on the right road, but was just hoping for some quick feedback. then when my schedule allows, i'll dig in a little more.
...pictures are killing me. gonna email to my phone.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Talk about the long way around...
The blue line is mains only. Any thoughts?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

willis7469 said:


> Talk about the long way around... The blue line is mains only. Any thoughts?


 the mains sweep was done with different levels(you prob guessed that)
Thought I'd mention that since it looks like my subs are insanely hot.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

willis7469 said:


> Any thoughts?


About what exactly? Are we still talking about smoothing, or we on to something else now?

Regards,
Wayne


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Hi Wayne. I suppose etiquette would dictate I start a new thread. Sorry. I just figured this thread was open so...
Thoughts? I guess I was curious as to anything that stood out, good or bad. Like, if you measured a room, and the graph looked like this what would address first. (For fixing)


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

The sub response looks excellent. I’d recommend high-passing your main speakers and not running them full-range. :T

Regards, 
Wayne


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Thanks Wayne. It almost looks like a house curve to me. No?
I don't know how to explain the response on the mains. I had just re calibrated audyssey which crosses them at 40. I normally run them at 50. I am sure I moved it up to 80 just before that sweep. They have been at 80 ever since. It does look like a full range sweep however and maybe I did it before moving the XO. I was rushing. 
Also, when I change the limits to go from 5 to 115 the sub graph looks even better. Maybe I'll leave it alone. 
Thank you.


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## red99 (Dec 10, 2014)

Everytime I run Audessy on my AV=7702, it will set my front towers to large speakers and crossover at 40 Hz. So I have to go in Manual and reset them to small and 80 Hz after running Audessy.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

red99 said:


> Everytime I run Audessy on my AV=7702, it will set my front towers to large speakers and crossover at 40 Hz. So I have to go in Manual and reset them to small and 80 Hz after running Audessy.


On my Onkyo 5508 Preamp audy xt32 changes my Large main speaker settings to small with xo set to 40hz


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

Dwight Angus said:


> On my Onkyo 5508 Preamp audy xt32 changes my Large main speaker settings to small with xo set to 40hz


I prefer the sound with mains set to large with xo set to 80hz


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

Dwight Angus said:


> I prefer the sound with mains set to large with xo set to 80hz


Correction. I prefer mains set to large without xo


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

AVRs aren't generally good at setting speakers to large or XO due to e.g. room modes, room gain etc.


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## red99 (Dec 10, 2014)

From what I have read others saying is when you set your mains to small and at 80 Hz, it will send all the LFR to the sub(s) and let them do all the grunt work, which will also free up more power for the mains since they wont need the extra watts to drive the lower frequencies.
I was told by the company I got my subs from and I have read others saying the same thing is that 80 Hz seems to be the sweet spot to crossover the subs and towers. But in the end, its what sounds best to the person with the sound system. This only applies to system with a sub(s). 
But Im no expert so take anything I say with a grain of salt.  Im just going by what I hear others say.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Red, you're right on many counts. Thing is, 80 is just a guideline. One that does happen to work very well in most cases.(unless your mains need to cross higher, which can be problematic for other reasons) I always think it's good to experiment. At least a little. Some systems or rooms or listening styles don't require the extra power from crossing over that high. I also like to hear my mains run full range, but my space is huge, and I am using 3 subs so for now I'm also crossed at 80.(was 50 for a long time). However if I put the same gear where our much smaller "kids" theater is, I might run them full range or at 40. Of course as you said, season to taste.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

willis7469 said:


> Red, you're right on many counts. Thing is, 80 is just a guideline. One that does happen to work very well in most cases.(unless your mains need to cross higher, which can be problematic for other reasons) I always think it's good to experiment. At least a little. Some systems or rooms or listening styles don't require the extra power from crossing over that high. I also like to hear my mains run full range, but my space is huge, and I am using 3 subs so for now I'm also crossed at 80.(was 50 for a long time). However if I put the same gear where our much smaller "kids" theater is, I might run them full range or at 40. Of course as you said, season to taste.


My setup just sounds better with mains running full band. Built in subs integrate better with no xo. 80hz xo integrates better then 40hz xo where audyssey xt32 sets the xo. So I run xt32 setup then set mains to full band. I guess my ears have the final say as everything else are tools to help you decide.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Dwight Angus said:


> My setup just sounds better with mains running full band. Built in subs integrate better with no xo. 80hz xo integrates better then 40hz xo where audyssey xt32 sets the xo. So I run xt32 setup then set mains to full band. I guess my ears have the final say as everything else are tools to help you decide.


 Dwight, I forgot you had those. I am seriously pining over a golden ear setup myself. Probably the only company that's seriously made me think about reinvesting in speakers. I don't see a sub in your sig, do you find the built in subs to be solid enough?


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

The built in subs definitely have enough juice so I won't add extra's. These are great speakers. You should have a listen at your nearest Goldenear dealer. 
The only downside is with full range you are limited in terms of sub placement. So potentially you could add a sub to smooth lfe out.


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## red99 (Dec 10, 2014)

Xt32 set mine at 40 and large, but I noticed when I set them at small and 80 Hz, I had a lot more bass. But I take it that was from setting the speakers to small does that? 

I tried once checking different X-overs on a song, but there is a delay and by the time it changed, the songs music changed so I had trouble really deciding which sounded the best. I need to find a tune that plays a consistent tune. Maybe my old Iron Butterfly Ina-gadda-davida song may work. lol
But you are right Dwight, the bottom line is its what sounds good to your ears. 

How do you like those Trinton ones? I was looking at those a while back.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

red99 said:


> Xt32 set mine at 40 and large, but I noticed when I set them at small and 80 Hz, I had a lot more bass. But I take it that was from setting the speakers to small does that?
> 
> I tried once checking different X-overs on a song, but there is a delay and by the time it changed, the songs music changed so I had trouble really deciding which sounded the best. I need to find a tune that plays a consistent tune. Maybe my old Iron Butterfly Ina-gadda-davida song may work. lol
> But you are right Dwight, the bottom line is its what sounds good to your ears.
> ...


Yeah trying to determine what xo to use requires allot of patience. I have tried many but keep coming back to running them large. 

The Triton Ones are the best speakers I have owned. 2 channel music is terrific. The imaging is spot on with a phantom centre channel. I find when I play them at reference level I don't fatigue. 

I recently bought the Goldenear SuperSat 50's to use as my side surrrounds & they integrate very well with front 3 speakers. Next year I will upgrade my back surrounds to add another pair of Supersat 50's


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