# What would you choose amp or wait for receiver?



## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Hello everyone hope all of your holidays were as good as mine. All we mostly did was watch movies and I started feeling like it was time to upgrade lol. Our setup is simple even though the room is only partially built. I am still running an Onkyo 805 receiver and for those that are unfamiliar with it it's thx ultra 2 certified, has hdmi inputs and hdmi out. Also you can bi-amp the fronts it has audussey multi eq. I have had this since 2008 and only reason as of now i want a new one is it is lacking 3d pass thru. It is running klipsch rf82s and rf62s on the fronts bridged and bi-amped. The center is a rc62 and sometimes I also bridge a rc52. The rears are also klipsch but they are meant for outdoor. I also have an Integra 30.3 upstairs running Paradigm monitor 11's center 3 and surround 3's. It is 3d capable. Well downstairs is for theater use and we have an Epson 6020 with a 120 inch Jamestown screen. Ok now that you know what I am working with am I better off swapping receivers and purchasing a Emotiva xpa 5 to run fronts, front wide and center, or waiting and just getting a new avr that is 9.2 capable for future upgrades. The thing is I now the Klipsch are efficient however I am wondering if I am missing out on headroom when all channels are running. Yes my system sounds good and I enjoy it but for those of you running power amps now that you have them will you ever turn back? If I posted this in the wrong spot feel free to move it.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

A nice 9.2 reciever with Audyssey XT32 would fit your needs,or wants, nicely. A4L has a nice deal on this Denon which has most all the bells and whistles you need. Check it out.... http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Flagship-Home-Theater-Receiver-150wpc/1.html


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I actually went from seperate amps back to a reciever powered system and I am very happy with the results. I did save the amps to either sell or put back into the system sometime later.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Given your using Klipsch speakers they are super efficient to begin with and that 805 will be impossible to match as far as power output is concerned. It's been bench tested to do 120 watts all 7 channels driven. Don't even bother thinking an amp will help it sound better. Trust me I know as I have the same receiver and never heard any difference going to an amp on my front speakers. The only change was it made my 805 run cooler.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

tcarcio said:


> A nice 9.2 reciever with Audyssey XT32 would fit your needs,or wants, nicely. A4L has a nice deal on this Denon which has most all the bells and whistles you need. Check it out.... http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/DENAVR4520CI/DENON-AVR-4520CI-Denon-s-Flagship-Home-Theater-Receiver-150wpc/1.html


Wow that might be what I go with. So you obviously were not over impressed with adding the amps if you went back to just a receiver, but did you notice any difference at all? Thanks again for the link on the denon it seems reasonable I was considering the Onkyo 5010 but the denon could be purchased sooner being half the price lol.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> Given your using Klipsch speakers they are super efficient to begin with and that 805 will be impossible to match as far as power output is concerned. It's been bench tested to do 120 watts all 7 channels driven. Don't even bother thinking an amp will help it sound better. Trust me I know as I have the same receiver and never heard any difference going to an amp on my front speakers. The only change was it made my 805 run cooler.


Yes mine runs hot as well I have a small fan I normally keep on it and plugged into the power out on the back. I was just wondering if I did the amp if I would get more punch in lower frequencies. If I listen to music on stereo mode lets say at -10 reference, then select all chan stereo at same level the output on the fronts drops noticeably off but maybe that is just normal since all channels being used. I remember reading the bench test and thought it was around 160 watts per 2 channels driven but I may be way off. 40 or 50 watts would be a big difference in sound though I suppose. I guess my other main reason for getting an amp was I could us the Integra for now but the Denon would not be much more.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If just driving the front channels the 805 does 173 watts but even 120 is plenty, I bet your not even getting to 80watts when running at -10 with those speakers.
That said a two channel amp for the main will reduce the load and thus the amount of heat.

The Denon x4000 won't come close to outputting 100watts per channel 5 channels driven so it's a step back in that regard.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

The only way a separate power amp can affect the sound of your system is if the amps in the receiver are clipping. That is actually pretty rare. Most separate power amps are bought because they are wanted, not because they are needed. I have a 350 watt per channel amp in my storage closet upstairs. If I thought it would improve the sonics of my system I would put it there but it won't.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Well I will take the advice and choose a new avr then. I don't want to down grade from a power stand point and from what I have seen on bench test I may go with the Onkyo 3010. I know of issues people have with the hdmi board but I have been fortunate with mine after all this time. I am not against any other brands by any means it just had lots of power on the bench test Onkyo TX-NR3010 A/V Receiver HT Labs Measures

HT Labs Measures 
Two channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 
0.1% distortion at 167.8 watts 
1% distortion at 189.5 watts 

Five channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 
0.1% distortion at 122.1 watts 
1% distortion at 142.2 watts 

Seven channels driven continuously into 8-ohm loads: 
0.1% distortion at 114.1 watts 
1% distortion at 127.2 watts 

Analog frequency response in Pure Audio mode: 
–0.05 dB at 10 Hz 
–0.01 dB at 20 Hz 
–0.02 dB at 20 kHz 
–2.74 dB at 50 kHz 

Analog frequency response with signal processing: 
–0.14 dB at 10 Hz 
–0.05 dB at 20 Hz 
–0.43 dB at 20 kHz 
–59.14 dB at 50 kHz 

This info was copied off sound and visions website I will keep searching and reading and any other recommendations are greatly appreciated. Also I did read Sonnies write up on the Denon 4520 and it seems good as well. I searched and tried to find what it's bench test was but can't seem to find spec's so if anyone has some specs please share. :bigsmile:


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

Don't get hung up on amplifier power. It really isn't as important as most people think. Most of us (including me) almost never use more than about 20 watts per channel in our listening rooms - even during musical peaks. Much more important than amplifier power in an AV receiver is getting the features you want and will actually use.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The 4520 uses class D amps so totally different ballgame than A/B amps. The numbers quoted as the specifications will be very close.


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Wow that might be what I go with. So you obviously were not over impressed with adding the amps if you went back to just a receiver, but did you notice any difference at all? Thanks again for the link on the denon it seems reasonable I was considering the Onkyo 5010 but the denon could be purchased sooner being half the price lol.


I didn't notice a difference because my speakers are very efficient. The only way you would is if you have speakers that need high power to drive them, Probably something that is only about 85% efficient. But you having the Klipsch you should have no problem like Sonnie mentioned.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Well i have it narrowed down between the 3010 and 4520 both are same price at a4l looks like video processing may be better on onkyo but that may just be my ignorance on marketing hype. I have read everyones opinions on the 4520 and was concerned about the hdmi output voltage. I am running a monster hdx1000 thats 35 feet long so far my onkyo has had zero trouble with it for the past year. Seems some have had issues with longer runs or needing to ship them off for repair. Deciding factors are I have 3 subs now and will have 4 once I build it lol so the 4 sub outputs are nice. Am curious if the denon is better as far as eq on the sub side. Am finding a lot more info on denon than onkyo so far. Have to admit I like the fact the onkyo is ultra 2 certified but again could be my ignorance on marketing hype. Thanks again for everyones input now I know the separate amps can wait for sure and this will be the way to go.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Both the Denon and the Onkyo have the identical Audyessey xt32 and sub EQ so either will do the same job. The nice thing with the Onkyo is it has THX processing giving some very useful modes to work with. The Denon uses class D amps( digital) so uses less energy and would probably stay cooler under load.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

I just added the EMOTIVA XPA 3 to drive the front LCR in a system that was under powered. this allows the AVR to easily push the surround channels and gives the fronts the power they need for full dynamics...
... It is common knowledge that many of the power ratings we see for AV R's is not ALL channels driven simultaneously but only 2 and sometimes 1 .... The EMOTIVA rating is all channels driven and is a perfect step in the right direction if you all ready have a quality AVR processor....and they are a very good price value....
see this system at
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/diy-speakers/70542-home-theater-build-1-a.html


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> The 4520 uses class D amps so totally different ballgame than A/B amps. The numbers quoted as the specifications will be very close.


No,
I belive you mean the Denon 4520 is class A/B not class D


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Are you certain? I was sure it used class D amps. But I could be wrong.


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

No its not, I called Denon to confirm it. 
As I was looking at this one to replace my pioneer AVR which is class D 

I'm glade it isn't class D but that's probably for another discussion


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

Adding my 2 cents to the original poster 

I would go for the AVR if you want to improve the sound quality. The preamp in the AVR is to my belief responsable for this. 

Adding the larger amp only amplifies what is already their unless your playing it loud enough to run out of power. 

Saying this though... I bought amps for my systems.



I am watching this thread as I'm not as experienced as some others on here so hopefully I can increase my knowledge as well.


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## fmw (Aug 11, 2013)

If you want to make meaningful improvements to the sound of your system the answers lie in speakers and room acoustics, not so much in electronics.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Yes I understand how a room in general can make or brake any system. My upstairs and down stairs are complete proof on that subject for me. Both of my system and setups are wonderful and it is the new audio and 3d format for my upgrading. I just new if I put my Integra down stairs I would not have to buy another receiver since it is 3d ready. The downside I was worried about is it lacks power to the Onkyo and is not 4 ohm rated but that I could work with. Not to mention the fact it only has audessy 2eq, does have the front wide, front high option though. I generally listen to music and movies at reference level or 0 and have both avr's set so this is max volume to try to prevent any clipping. I was always under the impression anything after this level is where clipping can start. Like all have mentioned before with a new receiver you have the new features of audessy and I believe you guys are right that is the way to go. May go and demo a new Intergra later today or next week also. They are another company or higher end Onkyo as dealers call them to have great customer service (I can attest to that personally) and also great products.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> I am still running an Onkyo 805 receiver and for those that are unfamiliar with it it's thx ultra 2 certified, has hdmi inputs and hdmi out. Also you can bi-amp the fronts it has audussey multi eq. I have had this since 2008 and only reason as of now i want a new one is it is lacking 3d pass thru. It is running klipsch rf82s and rf62s on the fronts bridged and bi-amped. The center is a rc62 and sometimes I also bridge a rc52. The rears are also klipsch but they are meant for outdoor.


Hi Oneday, forgive my ignorance here, but you are running 4 "front" speakers (RF82s & 62s)"bridged and bi-amped" and 2 centers (RC62 & 52), "bridged"? I took a cursory look at that Onkyo and for the life of me, can't figure how you're doing what I think you're doing above. Are the 4 front speakers wired in parallel, off 6 of the amplifier channels (4 channels bridged into 2), in "biamp" configuration?
How are the 2 center speakers "bridged"?
Again, my apologies for being a simpleton. Everyone else seemed to have understood, but I'm still puzzled and would like to be enlightened. TIA.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

ajinfla said:


> Hi Oneday, forgive my ignorance here, but you are running 4 "front" speakers (RF82s & 62s)"bridged and bi-amped" and 2 centers (RC62 & 52), "bridged"? I took a cursory look at that Onkyo and for the life of me, can't figure how you're doing what I think you're doing above. Are the 4 front speakers wired in parallel, off 6 of the amplifier channels (4 channels bridged into 2), in "biamp" configuration?
> How are the 2 center speakers "bridged"?
> Again, my apologies for being a simpleton. Everyone else seemed to have understood, but I'm still puzzled and would like to be enlightened. TIA.


Yes you read right and I called Klipsch and Onkyo a while back to make sure it was ok since the receiver was out of warranty. They assured me it would go into protection before I could fry it. Fronts are bi-amped off receiver wired parallel positive to positive negative to negative. Stacked centers and did the same set Onkyo to 4 ohm. Bi-amping is supposed to send high frequency's to tweeters lows to woofers. Not all receivers have this function. My receiver is also 4 ohm stable and a beast just ask any other owner. With fan on and running reference level it sounds amazing runs cool and after 4 months no issues. Plan is using the 82s for fronts and 62s as front wide. Then maybe getting a rc64 as a center and figuring out something for the other to. May get another rc62 so i can use them as rear and another rc52 so I can use them as front high. For now just pondering which new receiver.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Yes you read right and I called Klipsch and Onkyo a while back to make sure it was ok since the receiver was out of warranty. They assured me it would go into protection before I could fry it. Fronts are bi-amped off receiver wired parallel positive to positive negative to negative. Stacked centers and did the same set Onkyo to 4 ohm. Bi-amping is supposed to send high frequency's to tweeters lows to woofers. Not all receivers have this function. My receiver is also 4 ohm stable and a beast just ask any other owner. With fan on and running reference level it sounds amazing runs cool and after 4 months no issues. Plan is using the 82s for fronts and 62s as front wide. Then maybe getting a rc64 as a center and figuring out something for the other to. May get another rc62 so i can use them as rear and another rc52 so I can use them as front high. For now just pondering which new receiver.


Ok, let's start from the start....I'm shocked your amp hasn't shut down!
The "BTL" or bridge-tie load function does "bridge" two of the output channels, doubling the voltage capacity, but you should _never_ present it with anything other than an impedance that is twice the "minimum" load of a single channel. Yes, your amp is "4 ohm" ("nominal" or avg) capable _per_ channel. But when 2 channels are bridged, you should never present them with less than 8 ohms nominal (4 x 2). I won't boggle you (and other readers) with all the details of why.
But now you've gone further and attached two speakers to the terminal in parallel! The "nominal" impedance of each may be "8 ohms", but if you measured them, you would most likely see the woofer sections dipping down near (or even below sometimes) 4 or so ohms. Which in parallel with the other "8 ohm" speaker, means closer to 2 ohms. That should be a recipe for disaster on your bridged channels. Again, I'm shocked the amp hasn't shut down when driven hard.
As for the center, that's not "bridged", but simply a parallel load. Same rules applies above, you may be presenting it with close to a 2 ohm load at some (bass) frequencies. That Onkyo must be a beast. I'm also surprised the Onkyo tech didn't warn against it...assuming you were clear with your plan. Guess being out of warranty counts.
Real life intrudes, but I'll get into the good stuff later (including graphs), so don your anti-head-spin gear, it's coming.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Not bridged on receiver the 805 does not have btl only bi amp the 875 has btl and yes I agree it is quite a load but klipsch said if I bi-amp the towers and wire them parallel on lp and hp I should not exceed Onkyo's 4 ohm limit. This is why I havr loved my 805 I have pushed it and maybe abused it a little but it keeps on chuggin along. That is why I started the thread was not sure if the new avr's where built like the tank I have lol. Really happy there has been so much input here if any one is wondering the Integra I am considering is the 70.4.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Not bridged on receiver the 805 does not have btl only bi amp the 875 has btl


Ok, now we're starting to make more sense. So you _*aren't*_ "bridging" anything. You're just running all your 6 fronts paralleled (per channel). L&R bi-amped.
Btw, Phil Spector would be proud .



onedayiwillbedone said:


> yes I agree it is quite a load but klipsch said if I bi-amp the towers and wire them parallel on lp and hp I should not exceed Onkyo's 4 ohm limit.


I'm highly skeptical of that, since it would require each woofer section to be 8 ohm _minimum_. I would have to see an impedance measurement (not "spec") to believe that.



onedayiwillbedone said:


> This is why I havr loved my 805 I have pushed it and maybe abused it a little but it keeps on chuggin along.


Well, if you're happy....
You're doing a couple things to combat/mask any amplifier misbehavior/distortions. The multiple/paralleled highish efficiency speakers are creating _very_ high voltage sensitivity, requiring little voltage from the amp to produce high levels, the large amounts of "at the source" comb filtering and the fact that you are bi-amping (effectively low pass filtering the HF spectral components of any amplifier generated non-linearities/ distortions).
Or maybe you just aren't very good at perceiving/detecting distortions.



onedayiwillbedone said:


> That is why I started the thread was not sure if the new avr's where built like the tank I have lol. Really happy there has been so much input here if any one is wondering the Integra I am considering is the 70.4.


Other than the "3D pass thru" business (and maybe any psychological effect "Integra" vs Onkyo might have), I really can't see any reason to do so.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

My apologies about the bridge part all I meant was wired together in parallel. I almost always post my thoughts, questions, and inquiries on my phone from work. In doing so I sometimes use the wrong wording plus the fact none of us should probably be on our phones at work. Yes bad example set by me :foottap:. Anyway I have not always had these speakers set up this way it was actually kind of just an experiment I have come to enjoy. I only have the front's bi-amped since to my ear the klipsch sound better set up this way. The 62's and 82's by themselves both sound better bi-amped. Does not matter if listening to music, watching a movie, crossover setting just sounds better to me is all. It's actually weird to me since my paradigm monitor 11's do not sound better bi-amped. Again different setups in different rooms that are different dimensions. I am aware of the acoustical aspect even though I am ignorant about the topic at the same time. I am curious on what you mean by combat or mask distortion? I kind of just figured that wired parallel they would run around 4 ohms and be powered at a decent rating obviously from your response I am way off. Also keep in mind this is only a temporary set up I just liked being completely immersed in sound and I figured why not give it a try and see what happens. Worst thing I thought I would do is put the amp in protection mode. Not sure on the distortion comment to me that is subjective since everyone's opinion of good sound varies. Yes I agree distortion is a real thing and actually something that is measured it's just we all hear things differently. So in saying that I would say I do agree with you I may be missing out on something there:scratch:.


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> My apologies about the bridge part all I meant was wired together in parallel. I almost always post my thoughts, questions, and inquiries on my phone from work.


No apology needed...and shame on you posting while at work!!



onedayiwillbedone said:


> Anyway I have not always had these speakers set up this way it was actually kind of just an experiment I have come to enjoy. I only have the front's bi-amped since to my ear the klipsch sound better set up this way.


To be clear, if something sounds good to you, it should matter little what I have to say.
Knowing what I know, technically, I was initially puzzled by what you had said. But that has been clarified.
Your parallel L-R 4 speaker setup is unusual (I've seen the "dual mono" center thing before), but if _you_ like it....



onedayiwillbedone said:


> The 62's and 82's by themselves both sound better bi-amped. Does not matter if listening to music, watching a movie, crossover setting just sounds better to me is all. It's actually weird to me since my paradigm monitor 11's do not sound better bi-amped.


Yes, these are complicated issues and _very_ often misunderstood by non-technical types who favor simple, absolute positions. Passive biamping as you've done, should only be noticeable with caveats - like when the system is driven moderately hard and the specific amp/load in question, etc.
It is neither a panacea, nor snake oil (to the technically informed).



onedayiwillbedone said:


> I am aware of the acoustical aspect even though I am ignorant about the topic at the same time. I am curious on what you mean by combat or mask distortion? I kind of just figured that wired parallel they would run around 4 ohms and be powered at a decent rating obviously from your response I am way off. Also keep in mind this is only a temporary set up I just liked being completely immersed in sound and I figured why not give it a try and see what happens. Worst thing I thought I would do is put the amp in protection mode. Not sure on the distortion comment to me that is subjective since everyone's opinion of good sound varies. Yes I agree distortion is a real thing and actually something that is measured it's just we all hear things differently. So in saying that I would say I do agree with you I may be missing out on something there:scratch:.


Game just started, will have to get back to you later


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> I am aware of the acoustical aspect even though I am ignorant about the topic at the same time. I am curious on what you mean by combat or mask distortion?


First, there may be no (audible) amplifier sourced distortion at all in your setup, just the _potential_, from your parallel loads. As I explained before, because of the very high voltage sensitivity you've created, you may be reaching your desired SPLs without pushing the amps into misbehavior, despite the lower than optimum impedances you are presenting it. Regarding distortions, some can "mask" others if they are superimposed and more prominent perceptually. Our ears perception of distortion(s) are not linear with frequency or levels and even have (self) distortion mechanisms of their own, again, depending on variables like sound pressure (the ears themselves will begin to distort at higher levels as a form of protection).



onedayiwillbedone said:


> Also keep in mind this is only a temporary set up I just liked being completely immersed in sound and I figured why not give it a try and see what happens. Worst thing I thought I would do is put the amp in protection mode. Not sure on the distortion comment to me that is subjective since everyone's opinion of good sound varies. Yes I agree distortion is a real thing and actually something that is measured it's just we all hear things differently. So in saying that I would say I do agree with you I may be missing out on something there:scratch:.


Nope, I think you've got it. I personally wouldn't run 6 speakers up front (like you've configured now), especially 4 L-Rs for stereo tracks, But I'm not you. Or Phil Spector . Those are personal preferences.
Regarding this whole business about receivers, the one you have now seems to have about as good an amp section as would be found in a receiver. So I doubt your "upgrade" will be in that direction. The 3D thing or some other missing feature is a legit concern. Or maybe buying new toys just makes you happy. Don't let others pooh-pooh you if that's the case .
Me, personally, would rather pick the receiver with preouts and all the bells and whistles I need, then power the front 2 or 3 channels with a nice, capable separate power amp, freeing up the receiver to power all other channels without possible drama. Many times a combo like this can be reasonably close to what one would spend on a "Top of the line" receiver...and handily outperform it from a power delivery>load perspective.
YMMV.

cheers


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Ok now that makes complete sense I miss interpreted it as I had caused noticeable distortion from the setup made me begin to wonder of my listening abilities lol. This does go back to my original question regarding using my Integra and purchasing an emotiva xpa3 or 5. I just could not fathom the new units being able to drive 9 channels if I end up getting what I want. Just seemed logical on buying a power amp for fronts and center then running other channels off receiver as you stated. Since I have never heard a a/b comparison I was not sure how the sound differed. I did decide on a receiver for now for the reason you stated of bells, whistles, pre outs, audessy and the rest . The new features they provide along with my future plans make it the route to go and if I don't like the sound for some reason next step power amp like you mentioned. Unless I want to sell my rf62s and rc52 I am left using them where they seem fit. Good fit seemed front wide for the 62 and front high for 52 if I buy another 1 still un decided. These are the reasons I chose my name onedayiwillbedone it is the never ending battle for a finished setup. Not to mention the fact our room is still under construction but in use nonetheless lol.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

That is an optimistic user name, if you have the AV bug!:R


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Yes sir you are absolutely correct once you are infected with this bug there is now getting rid of it .


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Well newegg has the Onkyo 3010 for 1589.00 shipping included. These are new units through one call with two year warranty, and since it is no payments no interest for twelve months and since my wife is all about making out little sanctuary better it is on it's way:T. The only feature it is lacking from the Denon is there is no 4k pass thru it does up convert though. After long deliberation I finally realized by the time I need 4k I will have to upgrade again anyways. Especially since hdmi 2.0 is on it's way and none of the receivers right now supposedly have a standard for 4k and the new format. Should have it by next weekend and will give my initial impression after it is hooked up :bigsmile:. Reasons it was picked was 11.4 pre outs, Thx Ultra, Audessy bells and whistles, and what is considered one of the best video processors HQV Vida and Marvell Qdeo&#153; Processing.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Received the 3010 today will hopefully have it setup and going Saturday.


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Well I finally got this hooked up yesterday morning. I re ran some wiring and am running 7.2 with front highs instead of rear surround. Setup is now rf82's fronts, rc62 and rc52 wired parallel for center, rf62's for surrounds, aw 525 for front highs, four rw12d's on front wall and finally a diy jl 13w3 in rear. This receiver beat all of my expectations on sound quality and I may still get a amp down the road but only for 11.2. Setup was easy and the on screen menu is great. The one thing I find odd is the picture seems more bright, vibrant, and clear. Now I now this may sound strange and I agree but even my wife noticed it. I switched video from custom which was the default setting to through and direct and they all gave the same result. Maybe something with hdmi 1.3 compared to 1.4 or maybe it is just the placebo effect of something new. Either way we are both satisfied. Movies and music are unbearable at a volume of -10db. We watched Pirates at Worlds End and we were blown away. The whole end of the movie after they released Calypso when the rain began was simply amazing. Now I understand why so many people prefer front highs or wides over rear surround. I kept thinking to myself that I need to put my rain gear on. Plus all the canon fire felt like it hit you in the chest.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

do you have any pictures of your setup ? interested in how your JL sub turned out ....:bigsmile:


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

RTS100x5 said:


> do you have any pictures of your setup ? interested in how your JL sub turned out ....:bigsmile:


Yes i will have to load some not as good as yours lol


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

Hope these work this time.


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## B- one (Jan 13, 2013)

onedayiwillbedone said:


> Hope these work this time.




Wow that's some Full frontal copper action right there. Nice setup have you posted in the Klipsch owners thread yet? How does the dual center channel sound compared to just one,if you tried it that is.


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

Like exactly the same JL sub build - I had my ports on the floor - That JL 13w3 is a great HT sub :yes: 5 subs ?? YA


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## onedayiwillbedone (Dec 20, 2011)

B- one said:


> Wow that's some Full frontal copper action right there. Nice setup have you posted in the Klipsch owners thread yet? How does the dual center channel sound compared to just one,if you tried it that is.


No have not posted in the forum yet. To be honest this is the first time I messed with loading pictures. Quality is not the best but that is to be expected since I used my phone. To me having both centers stacked and bridged sounds better. It sounds fuller and more life like. I have listened to both individually and calibrated them separate as well as together using audessy. I just call it the poor mans rc64 lol. I was hoping to start a build thread but every time I have extra money it goes towards upgrades instead of actually building. I will try to get some more pics of downstairs as well as upstairs loaded this weekend. My two new favorite things are the 3010 and Studio sub 12. If or when i get the rest built I will try out the rf62's as front wide instead of surround. As you can see right now it is on top of my diy sub.


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