# Soundproofing



## Hannabanana (Jun 18, 2010)

Hello,



I’m preparing to open and piano studio to teach lessons in a strip mall retail space. I’m researching soundproofing for my walls. I’m leasing so I can’t tear out the drywall.



Have you ever heard of this product, and does it work?



It's web site is http://www.audimutesoundproofing.com . Look up audimute-sound-absorption-sheets-materials-that-absorb-sound-soundproofing-blankets. They say their blankets work better than regular moving blankets.

This seems the most affordable alternative me. 

I appreciate any advice you can give.



Thanks!



David Hanna


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## Matteo (Jul 12, 2006)

When you say "soundproofing" are you trying to 1) keep noise out 2) keep noise in or 3)increase the sound performance of the room 4) all of the above? The sheet look like they have fairly high NRC ratings, which will absorb a lot of sound, but depending on the STC rating, may not prevent transmission of sound very well. At least that is how I understand it. It is helpful to know what you are trying to accomplish.


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## Hannabanana (Jun 18, 2010)

****"When you say "soundproofing" are you trying to 1) keep noise out 2) keep noise in or 3)increase the sound performance of the room 4) all of the above?"****

I'm trying to take care of all of the above. But I'm mostly concerned about not upsetting my neighbors with our piano music. The other two conditions are important but secondary.

I can't afford to "hermetically seal" the room. 

So, I'm looking for professional opinions to help me. Most professional opinions, I've found, have their own motives ($$). So, what advice can you give me that is fairly inexpensive? 

My total cost for the sheets would be about $700. I don't want to waist my money if they won't really work for me. So, I realize that I may have to spend more upfront.

PLEASE, any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

David


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Keeping sound from the neighbors is going to mean sealing the room. Sound can be transmitted through any air gaps or through common floors, walls, etc. There is no cost effective way to stop sound transmission unless you are willing to do some de/construction of your structure.

I'd recommend an electric piano and a good set of headphones.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Is the floor a concrete slab? How about the ceiling?


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## Hannabanana (Jun 18, 2010)

The floors are concrete with indoor/outdoor carpeting. The ceiling is an open plenum ceiling up to the roof deck.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

And the walls go all the way to the roof deck? Any idea what the roof deck is made of?


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## Hannabanana (Jun 18, 2010)

The landlord isn't sure if the walls go all the way to the roof deck. But, he said to assume that it doesn't.

The roof deck is plywood with roofing materials on top.

Thanks for asking and helping with advice.

David


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

If the wall doesn't reach the roof deck, sound will simply pour over the top. This is very common.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

Would this be an instance where egg crates would work? I'm no sound absorbtion guru so take it for what it's worth, but when I get my new house I plan on sound proofing a bit with bulk-buy crates like this: http://cgi.ebay.com/120-Paper-chick...tem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e01fb874 

At less than $50 per wall (in my case) you really can't beat the price if it does the job. Oh yeah don't worry about looks- You can paint them or put up drapes in front for just a small amount of money more without any loss in quality


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Egg cartons, because of their shape, can help with in-room diffusion. Bryan might elaborate. The thing is, the egg cartons have virtually no mass, and therefore no soundproofing capacity. They can only deal with sound waves that have insufficient energy to enter (move) the wall.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

Ted White said:


> Egg cartons, because of their shape, can help with in-room diffusion. Bryan might elaborate. The thing is, the egg cartons have virtually no mass, and therefore no soundproofing capacity. They can only deal with sound waves that have insufficient energy to enter (move) the wall.


So basically, you can use them as a means of improving the sound of a basement (as in my situation) with concrete walls by to reducing standing waves, but they won't be much use in the manner of actually killing off the sound before it can leave the area? Thanks for that info, I'm pretty sure you just gave the green light on my attempt to inexpensively improve my soon-to-be basement theater (still waiting on the home inspection, fingers crossed!) though I guess this doesn't help the OP's situation a whole lot. Sorry I couldn't help, HB :huh:


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

You have that right, although you mostly see absorption in a theater, rather than diffusion. Bryan can comment.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

Hmm, I might have to look into this a bit more than I originally planned- If I'm moving into my first house, I wanna go all-out on making the best theater I can from the ground up, and concrete walls definitely warrant some investment into sound absorbtion.

Another thought I had, which could also potentially help HannaBanana, is something along the lines of either generic Tempur material or egg crate mattress pads, both of which I'm pretty sure can be had for cheap if you know where to look.. Would they be worth it for the absorbtion, is this level of dedication nearing the point when one should start considering some material made specifically for the purpose?


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I'm not sure egg crates have ever been proven to do much of anything except offer a little diffusion in the high-frequencies only. They certainly won't offer much of anything in the way of soundproofing. As far as reducing standing waves, in a home theater, the low frequency standing waves are the most troublesome producing boomy bass. Egg crates will have no effect there. You want several inches of rigid fiberglass or similar. Don't skimp here.


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## Spuddy (Jan 2, 2010)

Would fiberglass insulation work? I don't know if that's what you meant by "rigid", but if that's the way to do it then thanks for the tip and I will do just that


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Fluffy insulation won't work well because it's not dense enough. You'd need a lot of thickness to affect bass frequencies:

Start here and check out a lot of the other threads in our acoustics forum: http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-acoustics/3520-source-owens-corning-703-diy.html


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

Right. Fluffy insulation* IN *a wall is best for low frequencies. Denser insulation *ON* a wall is best for low frequencies.


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## Trick McKaha (Oct 7, 2009)

To greatly reduce sound going from room to room three things go a long way. First, if the walls do not go all the way to the ceiling (like if you have drop down ceiling panels), extending the walls between rooms all the way to the (true) ceiling, leaving no air gaps. If the gap is small, say about a foot, then stuffing in fiberglas insulation helps a lot. Cutting drywall to fit the size you need and extending the wall on up is best, and not always so expensive or difficult. You can seal the tiny gaps at your seams with caulk or duct tape. It doesn't have to look good or bear weight.

Second, air ventilation ducts transmit sound, especially air vents that just go from one room to the next. They make vents with kinks in them that inhibit sound from travelling through them. They work great in my office. 

Thirdly, sealing doorways as if they were external doors in North Dakota. Not leaving any air gaps between door and floor.


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## Sunlesstrawhat (Mar 2, 2012)

So, can you use these Audimute sheets to cover the doors to reduce the noise going out? It's not really sealing the door per se but the video on their website seems to indicate that doubling up over the door works. Thank you.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

It sounds like your landlord doesn't really know what he is leasing you (which, sadly, is very common). If the units are properly demised, they should usually have fire barriers between them above the ceiling, but code varies (I think if the building is sprinklered it isn't mandatory here). When you say the ceiling is open plenum, do you mean it is wide open all the way to the roof (in which case you should be able to see the full wall), or that it has a T bar grid with tiles? If it is open, you should have a good idea of what separates you and your neighbor(s). If there is T bar, move a few tiles, get up there, and see if you can see any barrier between the units. If not, it wouldn't cost too much to have someone come in and put up a drywall/insulation barrier that would help.

Otherwise, anything you can put up will be a start, and I'd consider any combination of:
- adding another layer of drywall in your suite
- adding a layer of rigid insulation to common walls
- adding those blankets to common walls
- standing frames (or folding screen style) with insulation placed strategically

I would think all 4 of those in that order would get you decent results, but it always depends on the weakest link. If this will be a long term business, you might want to invest in the blankets as something that can move with you from location to location throughout the years. Start with them and see if they help. Then you can experiment with adding some other treatments as time and funds allow. You can build your own panels pretty cheaply (just google diy acoustic panels) and maybe if you put a few of these around the piano they would help cut down... make them double thick if you have the space, they'll be more effective. Space them out a bit randomly and see how they work best. See below.


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## Ted White (May 4, 2009)

That pattern would work to hold the absorptive materials you mentioned, however absorptive materials don't soundproof much, as they lack mass. 

If you want to suspend massive materials to stop sound, you can't leave gaps. Soundproofing is best considered a remodel, as it requires at least the addition of drywall to affect a change.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Yeah, sorry, I should have specified that the panels would be mostly for treating the sound in your room, and much less for preventing sound from getting through to your neighbors. Basically like Ted said, the more mass you can add between you and them, the more sound you can stop. And any gaps (above ceilings, through electrical outlets, etc.) will all leak sound right through.


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