# HELP!!! Quick advise needed on Front Projection system



## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

1. I don't know much about front projection systems.
2. Trying to help a friend put together one.
3. I've always heard good things about Panansonic projectors.
4. Don't know anything about screens.
5. We are putting this into an existing HT room that had a FP system before.
6. This deal ends tomorrow (trying to stay around the $3000 mark):

http://www.projectionguys.com/packages_PanasonicPTAE3000U.cfm

His friend has a JVC and Stewart screen (but I don't it'll go way over the budget). Please let me know your thoughts.

Thx.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

What is his budget? (I'll assume 3k between projector and screen)

Does he want 1080p or will he settle for 720p? 

How dark will the room be when watching the projector? will be be completely blacked out or will there be some ambient light? This will drive how much lumenosity you need and contrast ratio needed.

How big of a screen does he want? How far back can the project be from the screen? Some projectors can only be a certain distance (throw) to achieve certain screen sizes.

How is he going to mount the projector? Ceiling mount? Wall Mount? How tall is the room? If it's ceiling mount, how far off the ceiling he want to suspend it? Good mounts will cost between 100-200 dollars as well.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

For that projector, here is a calculator that can help answer some of the throw distance questions...

http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AE3000-projection-calculator-pro.htm

Elite screens are a nice budget screen that look great, and are easy to put together. Again, depends on how much ambient light you are dealing with on what kind of screen material you go with, but take a look at the Elite screens since you get a lot for your money... http://www.elitescreens.com/


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## Jed M (Mar 1, 2008)

If I was just getting into FP, I would recommend the Panasonic PT-AE3000u and a 2.35:1 screen from Carada. I installed that combo for my parents and it is mighty impressive. Unless you have major money to spend on a really nice lens system, the way Panasonic has implemented their easy zoom memory for regular and scope screens beats the ease and quality of my cheaper lens system. I will make the switch when I upgrade. I truly am not some kind of fanboy, but I have always loved my scope screen but never recommended them because of the added expense and/or hassle. Now with Panasonic's new feature I can whole heartily recommend this projector if you want to go scope. On top of that it is an excellent projector to boot. Don't underestimate the first time you fire up LotR in scope.:clapper:


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

dguarnaccia said:


> What is his budget? (I'll assume 3k between projector and screen)
> 
> Does he want 1080p or will he settle for 720p?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the response. I think the budget will be $3500 max. Closer to $3K realistically.

He wants 1080p, since he's intending for it to last for quite a while. 

Although it's a dedicated home theater room, there will be some lights in the daytime, as it has windows (covered by plantation shutters) and a french door. I'll suggest putting drapes to darken the room.

I've not seen screens smaller than 92", so that's the max/min size we are shooting for?

I'm guessing the projector will be about 11-12 feet back. Seating will be about 10 ft (the room's only 14.5 feet long)

It'll be suspended from the ceiling (which is 10 ft high). I don't know how low he wants to suspend it, but most likely, we are looking at just using the mount that comes with the projector deal in the link above (if not, then something from Monoprice?)


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

dguarnaccia said:


> For that projector, here is a calculator that can help answer some of the throw distance questions...
> 
> http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AE3000-projection-calculator-pro.htm
> 
> Elite screens are a nice budget screen that look great, and are easy to put together. Again, depends on how much ambient light you are dealing with on what kind of screen material you go with, but take a look at the Elite screens since you get a lot for your money... http://www.elitescreens.com/


I tried using that calculator, but I'm not sure I'm using it right. Don't know what some of those numbers are???

The Elite screen (92") actually comes with that package from the same site you linked to (Projector Central).


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

Jed M said:


> If I was just getting into FP, I would recommend the Panasonic PT-AE3000u and a 2.35:1 screen from Carada. I installed that combo for my parents and it is mighty impressive. Unless you have major money to spend on a really nice lens system, the way Panasonic has implemented their easy zoom memory for regular and scope screens beats the ease and quality of my cheaper lens system. I will make the switch when I upgrade. I truly am not some kind of fanboy, but I have always loved my scope screen but never recommended them because of the added expense and/or hassle. Now with Panasonic's new feature I can whole heartily recommend this projector if you want to go scope. On top of that it is an excellent projector to boot. Don't underestimate the first time you fire up LotR in scope.:clapper:


I kinda like that Panny feature when I was perusing the specs. I've seen systems that have the external switchable lenses, but I didn't want to get into that, as it'll add much more complexity and $ 

I'll take a look at the Carada stuff, as well. Thx!


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

I have bought from projectorpeople.com. Good prices and selection.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Aye, I bought my stuff from projector people as well. Good service nice prices. 

That calculator just helps you make sure your distances relative to screen size and projector specs are jive. Looks like will be fine with the PJ back at 11-12 feet assuming as 92 inch diagonal. 

For rooms with more ambient light, you tend to want more of the high contrast grey material than the cine white stuff from Elite. All in all, the Panny is a great projector, and he'll be happy with it. That's probably my next upgrade eventually as well. The mustang mount should be fine, but he might consider adding a 12 inch extention to drop the projector to 8 foot so it's not such a steep projection angle.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

that make sense. Thanks for the info. I'll look more into screen gain and a longer mount.


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## geneward (Jan 28, 2009)

*lens shift should handle it*

The optical lens shift on that projector should negate the need to drop the projector at all. I also think it will draw less attention mounted directly to the ceiling. I would just use what you get included. Spend the rest on a blu-ray player to really see what the projector can do.


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## mojave (Dec 30, 2006)

dguarnaccia said:


> Aye, I bought my stuff from projector people as well. Good service nice prices.
> 
> That calculator just helps you make sure your distances relative to screen size and projector specs are jive. Looks like will be fine with the PJ back at 11-12 feet assuming as 92 inch diagonal.
> 
> For rooms with more ambient light, you tend to want more of the high contrast grey material than the cine white stuff from Elite. All in all, the Panny is a great projector, and he'll be happy with it. That's probably my next upgrade eventually as well. The mustang mount should be fine, but he might consider adding a 12 inch extention to drop the projector to 8 foot so it's not such a steep projection angle.


The grey screens have less gain and are used for boosting contrast in a dark room with projectors that have a low contrast ratio. Elite's website even says: "Manufacturer’s tip: if your projector’s contrast ratio is more than 2000:1, we recommend you use CineWhite™ material for a brighter picture."


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

geneward said:


> The optical lens shift on that projector should negate the need to drop the projector at all. I also think it will draw less attention mounted directly to the ceiling. I would just use what you get included. Spend the rest on a blu-ray player to really see what the projector can do.


Thanks. I'm sure they'll appreciate the less intrusive look with a shorter mount. A blu-ray player will be part of the system, but not mentioned in this budget.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

mojave said:


> The grey screens have less gain and are used for boosting contrast in a dark room with projectors that have a low contrast ratio. Elite's website even says: "Manufacturer’s tip: if your projector’s contrast ratio is more than 2000:1, we recommend you use CineWhite™ material for a brighter picture."


So, you are suggesting to go with a Cinewhite (higher gain = larger #), since there is some light that will be coming into the room?


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

Also, I'm getting confused with all the sites. Are these the same sites:

Projectorcentral.com
Projectionguys.com
Projectorpeople.com

When I go to Projectorcentral, I see both the latter sites???


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## mojave (Dec 30, 2006)

PhenomeNhan said:


> So, you are suggesting to go with a Cinewhite (higher gain = larger #), since there is some light that will be coming into the room?


Yes


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

mojave said:


> Yes


Thanks. Should I go ahead and order the package and change the Elite (grey) 92" fixed screen to Elite Cinewhite 92"?


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

The gain on the Cinewhite will help, but good light control will always help more. I don't think you need the Grey though. Their contrast "boost" is often not worth the loss in gain with modern projectors.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

madpoet said:


> The gain on the Cinewhite will help, but good light control will always help more. I don't think you need the Grey though. Their contrast "boost" is often not worth the loss in gain with modern projectors.


Cool...thanks for the advice. I'll go with the white then.

Also, now the bad news. I might not be ordering the system just yet. The sale ended today, and my buddy informed me that the inspection didn't go thru with the new house, so they are back to house searching now. I hope they find one with a larger media room.

Work got in the way, so I did not get to call the ProjectorGuys on time. I did send an email to them to see if they can extend their sale for 1 more day and change the grey to white (not sure how much the cost difference would be). It's not a big deal at this point, as ProjectionPeople have a similar package (but with a white screen) for about $120 more.

This just in as I am typing...ProjectorGuys replied to the email to say they can extend the deal to tomorrow and change the screen to white for the same price. Sweet!

I'll just tell my friend to go ahead and order the package. That way I can set it up in my own room and break it in for him


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## rsa (Dec 9, 2008)

madpoet said:


> The gain on the Cinewhite will help, but good light control will always help more. I don't think you need the Grey though. Their contrast "boost" is often not worth the loss in gain with modern projectors.





PhenomeNhan said:


> So, you are suggesting to go with a Cinewhite (higher gain = larger #), since there is some light that will be coming into the room?





mojave said:


> Yes





PhenomeNhan said:


> Cool...thanks for the advice. I'll go with the white then.


That's backward. Re-read this Projector Reviews review of Stewart's FireHawk G3 material.



> _The image here shows a split screen that Stewart normally displays at tradeshows, with the left side being the Firehawk G3 material. The right side is a matte white surface. You can see how well the Firehawk does around ambient light - the right side is significantly washed out, and the Firehawk looks great._












Additionally, Stewart FireHawks are angular reflective. Light bounces off the screen like a pool ball bounces off a cushion. This is an Angular Reflective Screen 1.3 Gain:









Compare that with a Matte White Screen 1.0 Gain:









Which one do you think will reflect the most ambient light to the seating positions? Especially ambient light from the sides.  The last two images also taken from Projector Reviews.

Next: when you hear "my room's light controlled", and you ask a few more questions, you'll often find out turning off the lights and the room's not having any windows are the only forms of light-control in the room. Walls are white, clothes are light colored, etc. In those rooms, you turn off your lights and turn on the projector and all of a sudden the room is full of ambient light, especially with the light cannons we have for projectors today. Light leaks from the projector or bounces off the screen, hits all the rooms reflective surfaces and bounces back to the screen. Result? Washout. And the light cannons of today make gray screens more attractive, not less, than they were in days of old when you might not want to sacrifice lumens for "improved" contrast. I'm not familiar with the cheaper gray screens, but the FireHawk G3 has an advertised gain of 1.25.

So get the FireHawk if you're worried about ambient light, right? Not so fast. You need to ceiling mount the projector so the angular reflective properties reflect the maximum light to the viewer. You also have to mount the projector at least 1.6 time the throw distance (all explained in the FireHawk review linked above). It also helps if your seating area isn't too wide: that angular reflective stuff again.

The Stewart StudioTek 130 is an excellent screen too. It gets even better as you reduce ambient light.

Stewart


_____
_Disclaimer: I've owned a 100" 16:9 first-generation FireHawk for five years and have it up for sale locally on Craigslist.  Unfortunately, I no longer have a room for it _


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

PhenomeNhan said:


> Also, I'm getting confused with all the sites. Are these the same sites:
> 
> Projectorcentral.com
> Projectionguys.com
> ...


No they are not.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks for the info Stu and Engtaz. Looks like I'll have more reading to do. I guess I'll put off buying the screen until my buddy finds a new house to buy first. Stewarts are so expensive it seems. I went to one site and the cheapest that I saw was north of $1500 

I'll read all the links you've posted later, Stu.


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

*Screen samples*



PhenomeNhan said:


> 1. I don't know much about front projection systems.
> 2. Trying to help a friend put together one.
> 3. I've always heard good things about Panansonic projectors.
> 4. Don't know anything about screens.
> ...


I have a JVC RS20 (above $3K budget), but I looked at various screen samples from Da-Lite and Carada -- see link.
It wasn't a scientific assessment but you could get samples and do the same thing at home.

On AVS many people like the DL HP screen (if projector mounted near eye level).

I would have liked to check out the Vutec Silver screen.

Some DIYers use a wall and paint.

Good luck,

Mike


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

Mike_TX said:


> I have a JVC RS20 (above $3K budget), but I looked at various screen samples from Da-Lite and Carada -- see link.
> It wasn't a scientific assessment but you could get samples and do the same thing at home.
> 
> On AVS many people like the DL HP screen (if projector mounted near eye level).
> ...


Good Lord, man. You did quite a bit of work there 

They've found another house, so I'm going to check it out next week and make notes of the new specs.

Fun times ahead


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

I have an EliteScreens CinaWhite 100", they are great budget screens.

The tab tensioned screens are the best.
http://www.projectorpeople.com/scre...u=Elite&itmname=CineTension 2 Electric Screen


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

dvenardos said:


> I have an EliteScreens CinaWhite 100", they are great budget screens.
> 
> The tab tensioned screens are the best.
> http://www.projectorpeople.com/scre...u=Elite&itmname=CineTension 2 Electric Screen


Nice, but I think they'd prefer to get a fixed frame, since it'll be in a dedicated theater room.

On different note, what do you think about this Mits 5500 (probably not as good as the Panny, but seems like a killer deal):

http://www.projectorpeople.com/proj...PPG&srccode=cii_5784816&cpncode=21-10811954-2

It'll be about $1500 after the $300 rebate and a free lamp.


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## engtaz (Jul 9, 2010)

I have the Mits HD1000U and have been very please. Nice deal on getting it with a free bulb. You might still think about the lamp warrenty. Set your free lamp aside and have the warranty replace it two times in 3 years. Lamps do go out and are not cheap.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

PhenomeNhan said:


> Nice, but I think they'd prefer to get a fixed frame, since it'll be in a dedicated theater room.


Fixed screen, even better. Sorry didn't catch that.


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## geneward (Jan 28, 2009)

PhenomeNhan said:


> Nice, but I think they'd prefer to get a fixed frame, since it'll be in a dedicated theater room.
> 
> On different note, what do you think about this Mits 5500 (probably not as good as the Panny, but seems like a killer deal):
> 
> ...


Nhan,
I have the HC4900 (after rebate $1350) and could not be happier. It will be very hard to beat the price/value. I say do it and spend the left over money on something else to complete the experience.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

geneward said:


> Nhan,
> I have the HC4900 (after rebate $1350) and could not be happier. It will be very hard to beat the price/value. I say do it and spend the left over money on something else to complete the experience.


Thanks guys. We are planning speakers, receiver, remotes, etc., as well. This should be fun.


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## bunnyma357 (Apr 19, 2008)

geneward said:


> Nhan,
> I have the HC4900 (after rebate $1350) and could not be happier. It will be very hard to beat the price/value. I say do it and spend the left over money on something else to complete the experience.


I've also got the Mitsubishi HC4900 as well, $1399 for mine from Projector People, and absolutely love it. I still don't think I've seen a better value out there. 

There are 2 things that I wish were better, the black levels aren't perfect but aren't that bad either. Filling the screen totally with an image helps a lot with the perception of blacks, which is why I'd recommend a 2.35 screen with side masking to crop it down to 16:9 when necessary. (Black levels are one of the things they improved on the 5500)

The second thing is related to the above, when switching between 16:9 and 2.35 you have to manually adjust the lens shift and zoom, which is a little bit of a pain. Not a major issue, but it would be so much nicer if the projector stored the settings and you could automatically switch between them.

If I had the money I'd probably go with the Panasonic, but since I don't ultimately I'd go with the Mitsubishi again, since it is such a great deal.

Jim C


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

PhenomeNhan said:


> Good Lord, man. You did quite a bit of work there
> 
> They've found another house, so I'm going to check it out next week and make notes of the new specs.
> 
> Fun times ahead


Yeah, I was attempting to have a rational, systematic approach, but sometimes you just have to buy something.

I hope to install my ISCOIIIL anamorphic lens and CineSlide this Sat.

I look forward to see what you get.

Mike


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## madpoet (Jul 26, 2010)

Anamorphic lenses are a lot of fun. I used them for years but just don't have the room to make a true transition to a CH setup.


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## Jed M (Mar 1, 2008)

madpoet said:


> Anamorphic lenses are a lot of fun. I used them for years but just don't have the room to make a true transition to a CH setup.


I found them to be a money trap and never gave me a perfect picture. The Panasonic's memory zoom is better than any anamorphic lens I have used. Losing pixels is a much better trade off than distorting the picture, IMO. Maybe its the projector but I have never had such a pristine 2.35 image since I switched to the zoom method. I would imagine you would have to spend 3-4k on a lens to get better performance.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

Looks like we will be going with this package from ProjectorPeople (can't find much information on the ProjectionGuys):

http://www.projectorpeople.com/projectors/proddtls.asp?itemid=24205

*
The package with the basics to set up a HD home theater. Includes Panasonic PT-AE3000U 1080p projector, 35'' 1.3 HDMI video cable, universal ceiling mount, 52x92 inch screen fixed frame screen with velvet trim.

* Panasonic PT-AE3000U
* Sanus Systems VMPR1 Universal Projector Mount, Black
* AccuScreens Fixed Frame Screen with Velvet Frame
* Comprehensive Video HD HR Pro Series HDMI to HDMI Cable, 35 ft*

I'll be getting the grey one. Is the AccuScreens a good brand?


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## imported_Lefty (Mar 26, 2009)

I would check this out:
http://www.visualapex.com/Epson/Projector-Specifications.asp?For-The=Home-Cinema-1080
OOPs, sorry, it looks like they sold them out.


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## imported_Lefty (Mar 26, 2009)

The projector people are very good. Reasonable prices and helpful if you run into problems. Careful of their return policy though, I seem to remember it is very short.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

Lefty said:


> The projector people are very good. Reasonable prices and helpful if you run into problems. Careful of their return policy though, I seem to remember it is very short.


Thanks for the recommendation. We went with the Projection People's Panny 3000 starter kit. Got the 106" gray Accuscreen, along with the other items mentioned above.

Question for people who have experience with putting their equipment in a closet: What do you do about airflow? Can I put in one of those bathroom airflow fans, or is the noise too much and airflow too limited?

Other things we ordered for the HT:

1. Harmony 890 remote control
2. Marantz SR-5003 receiver
3. Panny 65 blu-ray player
4. A bunch of things from Monoprice. Nice stuff, but if I had to do it all over again, I would have gotten the 12 gauge in-wall cables elsewhere. I might have to pay a little more, but it's worth it for these types of long runs. The cables were a bit too stiff. I've spent a bunch of time trying to straighten it out (all 200 feet). Then I hated the hard plastic that is used to cover the wires. Very difficult to work with. There's no shielding material what-soever. I'm stick with my trusty speaker cables from HTD for inwall projects from now on.

5. HTD speakers -- level 2 towers, level 2 center, hi-definition in-wall speakers
6. eD subwoofer -- A2-300

The level 2 center and the eD sub are out of stock at the moment, but will be delivered in about 3 weeks.

Now for the fun of climbing into the attic and running wires. I've already begun some work, like cutting a hole on the top of the closet (and installing the 3-gang wall plate from Monoprice to run the wires thru). That was pretty difficult, since the insulation in the attic was really thick, in addition to my having to twist my out-of-shape body into weird positions to get the job done. The AC/heating ducts in the attic leaves an extremely small space to get to the area where the projector and surround speakers will go. **** it will be difficult to get to the area where the front speaker wires will be dropped. I should get Quadman to write a letter to the people who did the duct work


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## LoudandClear (Apr 11, 2008)

PhenomeNhan said:


> Thanks for the recommendation. We went with the Projection People's Panny 3000 starter kit. Got the 106" gray Accuscreen, along with the other items mentioned above.
> 
> Question for people who have experience with putting their equipment in a closet: What do you do about airflow? Can I put in one of those bathroom airflow fans, or is the noise too much and airflow too limited?


Nhan,

Based on my install I found out that no ventilation should be needed with that setup. My closet is 3'X5' and I have 2 Parasound multichannel amps running and the amps get hot but not enough to cause concern. With the rcvr chosen you shouldn't have any problem, just put it high in the equipment stack. But you could put a Y in one of those AC vents and funnel some air into that closet. Just realize that whichever vent you choose to tap off of will reduce the airflow to it's orig location. One thing I did do was to buy 2 12V DC computer fans and I tied them into my Pre-Pro 12V trigger output so they come on and move air over the Parasound heatsinks. Parasounds run very hot by design intent. 

As far as bathroom fan goes.... too noisy and overkill in airflow. IMO

MB


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## lanceb1b (Nov 30, 2008)

*Cooling*

I am going to put one of these into my equipment closet.
http://www.westsidewholesale.com/whisperfit-lite-110-cfm-4-duct-low-profile-ceiling-mounted-fan-w-light-replaces-fv-11vfl1.html

I have gas heat so in the winter I would not want my heat feeding the closet. If I had a heat-pump then maybe.


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

LoudandClear said:


> Nhan,
> 
> Based on my install I found out that no ventilation should be needed with that setup. My closet is 3'X5' and I have 2 Parasound multichannel amps running and the amps get hot but not enough to cause concern. With the rcvr chosen you shouldn't have any problem, just put it high in the equipment stack. But you could put a Y in one of those AC vents and funnel some air into that closet. Just realize that whichever vent you choose to tap off of will reduce the airflow to it's orig location. One thing I did do was to buy 2 12V DC computer fans and I tied them into my Pre-Pro 12V trigger output so they come on and move air over the Parasound heatsinks. Parasounds run very hot by design intent.
> 
> ...


Thanks, Mike. I will of course try it without the fans first. Will add fans later if needed. Which computer fans did you get, btw, and how are they powered?


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## PhenomeNhan (Mar 4, 2008)

Lanceb1b said:


> I am going to put one of these into my equipment closet.
> http://www.westsidewholesale.com/whisperfit-lite-110-cfm-4-duct-low-profile-ceiling-mounted-fan-w-light-replaces-fv-11vfl1.html
> 
> I have gas heat so in the winter I would not want my heat feeding the closet. If I had a heat-pump then maybe.



Thanks, Lance. The price seems kinda high. I'll have to try a cheaper option first.


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## lanceb1b (Nov 30, 2008)

PhenomeNhan said:


> Thanks, Lance. The price seems kinda high. I'll have to try a cheaper option first.


I know the price is high, I am not going to be comfortable with a door on my closet without bringing in fresh air. I have hopes that you find a better solution that's on the cheap so I can copy it :shiftyeyes:


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