# Running HDMI Cable



## Kombat

I hope this is the right place for this question.

I need some ideas on how to get a video cable run. 2 years ago when I had my basement finished I stupidly had the guy only run component video cable from the media closet to the projector. Now that I just bought a Blu-Ray, well, now I want to run an HDMI cable.

He did install a 2"-3" PVC pipe in the ceiling for this purpose. I tried running fishing tape through it but it won't navigate the 90 degree turns (there are 2 of them). What could I use to get something through the pipe? I thought maybe use a light string and use a vacuum cleaner or shop-vac to try to suck it to the other end, and use the string to pull the cable in with. Would that work? Would the vacuum really pull the string to the other end? Any other ideas? The pipe probably totals 25 ft in length.

Running through the ceiling is tough since the start and end points aren't "lined up" and I'd have to cross ceiling studs, or whatever they're called. Obviously I'd like to keep wall and ceiling damage to a minimal if not none at all.

Last resort would be have an HDMI cable hooked up to the player but in the closet and bring it out and lay it on the floor when watching movies. Sloppy, but as I said, last resort.

Thanks,
Karl


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## Anthony

Ooh, that is bad. 2, 90 degree turns and he didn't leave a pull string in the pipe?

Well, you can try pushing the hdmi cable through. I know, I know, you can't push a rope. But if the rope is in a constrained tube, you sometimes can. 

Is the component cable in there now? Or is the tube empty? If it's empty, the vacuum and maybe a ping pong ball with the string through it would work.

If the other cable is there, you can use it as a pull, but use LOTS of tape and get electricians goop for lube'ing wires for pulling. I've lost pulls mid-wall and there is a lot of cursing involved. 

In any event, while you are pulling the hdmi cable, attach some cord or maybe a cat5 wire to it. Cat 5 is better because you can use it for IR distribution, data, or even RS232/automation -- or just use it as a pull for the next wire you need. Always pull an extra pull string! You never know what the future will require.

Good luck.


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## Kombat

No, the component is not in there now.

I will try the ping pong ball thing. Thanks. I sense a Wal-Mart run on the way home today.


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## Prof.

I don't think you'll be able to suck a ping pong ball around those bends..
A better alternative is to bunch up some tissues into a tight small ball and tie some thin nylon fishing line to it..
It should suck straight through without any problems..


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## tonyvdb

Prof. said:


> I don't think you'll be able to suck a ping pong ball around those bends..
> A better alternative is to bunch up some tissues into a tight small ball and tie some thin nylon fishing line to it..
> It should suck straight through without any problems..


:T Thats a good idea!


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## Anthony

Yeah, but will the tissues make that ultra satisfying "thoonk" when they come out the other side into the vacuum hose


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## Prof.

No..It just goes phissst!! :bigsmile:


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## eugovector

Plastic grocery bag with a rubber band around the cable, then vacuum it through.


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## glaufman

All great suggestions. If by chance none of them work, I've got a different angle... depending on the exact construction of the conduit, which we don't know...
I've had a little success before by using a solid copper wire instead of the fishtape. Place a small bend in the wire (maybe 45 degrees?) an in ch or two up from the end you're going to push through. Make the distance between the tip and the bend less than the diameter of the conduit. Starting the bend like this sometimes allows the wire to bend around angles. It helps a lot if you know the direction of the angles you're trying to bend around, and can twist the wire so it's point the right direction before trying to get it to bend.

I would definitely try the vacuum suggestions first though.


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## tiggers97

What gage is your fish tape? It should work. I had trouble with my conduit (3") mostly because it was initially catching the seam where the pipes came together. A little extra tape on the end to round it out and I was able to push it thru. Then again, my corners were thru a curved section of pipe, and not a true 90-degree corner or elbow.

How far is the 90" elbow from the opening? You might be able to get something a little more flexable, like an actual garden hose?


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## tiggers97

Note, actually, a leaf blower might also work. Just tie the string to a 1.5" nerf ball and blow in one end while using the vacuum at the other


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## lcaillo

Bending the end to a larger radius or gluing a small round knob like from a cabinet door to the end of your fish tape can help in negotiating sharp turns in PVC.


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## tiggers97

Oh, just had to share this one.

How about one of these without the car cover. Just the motor, wheels, and electronics. Hitch the string up to this and let her go!


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## lcaillo

Toys can come in handy. I used to use a toy crossbow to shot pull lines through attic spaces in drop ceiling installs. Saves having to lift lots of panels out.


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## DougMac

The most fun solution I've seen is a company that did a lot of new network cable runs in existing conduit. They had a trained rat! The rat had a little harness to which they'd tie string. He was trained to run the conduit to receive a treat at the other end.

I found electronic goop can really help when using fish tape, even through 90 degree turns. Just remember the goop is not rated for "personal" use.


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## tiggers97

DougMac said:


> The most fun solution I've seen is a company that did a lot of new network cable runs in existing conduit. They had a trained rat! The rat had a little harness to which they'd tie string. He was trained to run the conduit to receive a treat at the other end.


LOL I like that idea. Better than a snake (real one even)!



DougMac said:


> I found electronic goop can really help when using fish tape, even through 90 degree turns. Just remember the goop is not rated for "personal" use.


Also, I think a ping-pong ball with a hole for the fish tape could work.


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## Kombat

THanks for all the suggestions.

Well. I was able to suck just a ping pong ball with no problem. With a string tied to it though, it's getting stuck at the corners, just like the fishing tape did. Hmmmm. THere must be a seam or something in there that it's catching on.

I will try some of the other suggestions and let you all know how it turns out.

Karl


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## Kombat

SUCCESS!!!! Sticking the ping pong ball on the end of the fishing wire worked!!!! It was tough getting it around the second bend, but I eventually got it to go.


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## JerryLove

Congradulations. That's a tricket that I had never heard of either and it's one I'll have to add to my proverbial "bag of tricks" if I find myself in a similar situation with wiring (which may be coming up soon).

~Jerry


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## glaufman

Sometimes there's just no substitution for good old fashioned perserverance. Especially when you only need it to work just once!

Congrats!:clap:


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## tiggers97

And you didn't need to buy a fancy tool to make it happen! Congradulations. Now don't forget to leave an extra string or two in there!


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## Kombat

Thank you Tiggers for the idea.


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## Prof.

The ping pong idea works great,,IF you have an almost empty tube..but it's a different matter when you're trying to thread another cable, when there's already a whole bunch of cables in the tube!!
That's when the balled tissue idea works well..
Oh!..and the poor old rat would have trouble as well, running through a tube full of cables!!:rofl:


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## glaufman

Prof. said:


> Oh!..and the poor old rat would have trouble as well, running through a tube full of cables!!:rofl:


Perhaps not... he might just chew thorugh any wires that get in his way!

Seriously, though, if you already had a cable, couldn't you use it to pull a few strings?


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## Prof.

glaufman said:


> Perhaps not... he might just chew thorugh any wires that get in his way!
> 
> Seriously, though, if you already had a cable, couldn't you use it to pull a few strings?


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## DougMac

glaufman said:


> Seriously, though, if you already had a cable, couldn't you use it to pull a few strings?


I'm reminded of a Steven Spielberg quote (it's his birthday today):

"Why spend a dollar to buy a bookmark? Why not just use the dollar as a bookmark?"


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## Kombat

Failure. I can't get the cable pulled through. I've tried several different ways and I just can't get the cable past the second 90-degree turn no matter which end I start on. My best guess at a reason is the connector is just too thick/long. I bought a 24 AWG cable. Would a 26 or 28 AWG be any better? I didn't want to go too thin for a 30' run. Opinions on minimum thickness for a run that long?


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## eugovector

Have you tried running a thinner cable to see if that goes through, and then if it does, use that to pull the HDMI. Could be heavy twine, lamp cord, whatever.


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## lcaillo

You might try wrapping the end of the cable in a mesh sleeve then pulling it through. You probably are getting the connector hung up and that may help keep it from catching on anything. Also try twisting the cable to get around the turn.


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## Kombat

The cable isn't going through. I spent 6 hours trying last Thursday, trying a dozen different ways, and I just can't get it past the second turn. I think the connector is just too thick. Or the pipe is too small. However you want to look at it.

Anyone have advice on my other question? Will a 28 AWG cable be ok for a run that long (30 feet)?


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## Anthony

Since you may have to buy another cable anyway:

Try RapidRun. It is designed to be pulled and then field terminated. It is more expensive, though, but you may have more luck with the snake job.

Flying lead (end unit):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=183-748
Cable for in-wall (with screw on pull tabs):
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=183-822

you can also get wall plates and such to make the installation look more custom, if that's the route you are going.

Like I said, expensive, but it will work.

As for 28AWG working, I do not see why not, but the problem may be with the connector, which will likely be the same size, even if the cable is a narrower and a bit more flexible.


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## tiggers97

how deep into the ceiling is the last 90-deg turn? To me, it sounds like you are having trouble getting the head (i.e. HDMI connector) to bend and slide down the last segment of conduit. 

Try this (if you can follow my attempt at directions :blink
1. Get a wire coat hanger and stretch it out so that it is long with the hanger hook at one end. Make the opposite end (non hook end) just big enough for the HDMI cable connector to go thru. 
2. Now put that loop up into the last 90-deg elbow. 
3. Pull/push the hdmi cable thru the loop, but only just far enough so that the wire hanger can do it's next job. 
4. Now twist and gently pull down on the coat hanger wire.

The objective is not to snag and pull the HDMI cable thru with the coat hanger, but to redirect the direction of the cable head. 

If that doesn't work, make a little U at the end of the wire. Then use that to push the HDMI cable to near the top of the conduit as you pull and tease that last corner. A small stick of wood might work better for this part.

I have a feeling that the cable made it past the first corner as you are able to make full use of the horizontal conduit when pushing it in. At the exit end, the cable is laying on the bottom of the horizontal conduit making the last corner that much more difficult. See my quicky drawing below and see if that makes sense.?

You made the first corner so you know it's possible!


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## Kombat

To put this thread to rest, I ordered a 28 AWG cable which arrived Friday. I was able to pull it through easily. Took about 5 minutes total, after trying for 6 hours to get the thicker 24 AWG cable through. The connectors were definitely smaller on this cable so I'm going to assume that was the problem with the original cable.

After I finished I immediately realized I did it without pulling another string with it. At first I paniced, but I was able to push the fishing wire w/ping pong ball through still, so I'm good.


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## eugovector

Glad to hear it.


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## MatrixDweller

I had a hard time fishing wire through my conduits. I did get a 22AWG HDMI cable through a 2" pvc conduit fairly easily. It was catching on one of the bends but wiggling it back and forth eventually got it through. I have some ½ conduits for speaker wire that are almost impossible. I managed to use a high powered vacuum cleaner to suck a fine thread through then attached a piece of CAT5 cable to it and pulled that through then attached the speaker wire and pulled it though. 

I tried fish tape before and it was pretty difficult to get through. I had to move it forward and back quite a few times until it jumped over the obstacle. What I think was causing so much grief was the adhesive overflow inside of the tube. Normally there should be a smooth connection but use a little bit too much adhesive and there will be a small lip or bulge formed protruding from the seam.


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## Zapper

I am in the electrical game and when we need to run cable in conduit and cannot get it to the other end i use a snake!!! Not a real snake but very flexible steel coil about 3/16 think. When you got it to the other end then you can use it as a draw wire.


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## claudiaobrien

Kombat said:


> I hope this is the right place for this question.
> 
> I need some ideas on how to get a video cable run. 2 years ago when I had my basement finished I stupidly had the guy only run component video cable from the media closet to the projector. Now that I just bought a Blu-Ray, well, now I want to run an HDMI cable.
> 
> He did install a 2"-3" PVC pipe in the ceiling for this purpose. I tried running fishing tape through it but it won't navigate the 90 degree turns (there are 2 of them). What could I use to get something through the pipe? I thought maybe use a light string and use a vacuum cleaner or shop-vac to try to suck it to the other end, and use the string to pull the cable in with. Would that work? Would the vacuum really pull the string to the other end? Any other ideas? The pipe probably totals 25 ft in length.
> 
> Running through the ceiling is tough since the start and end points aren't "lined up" and I'd have to cross ceiling studs, or whatever they're called. Obviously I'd like to keep wall and ceiling damage to a minimal if not none at all.
> 
> Last resort would be have an HDMI cable hooked up to the player but in the closet and bring it out and lay it on the floor when watching movies. Sloppy, but as I said, last resort.
> 
> Thanks,
> Karl


Toys may be quite useful. I used to shoot pull lines into attic openings in drop ceiling installations with a budget crossbow. It eliminates the need to remove a large number of panels.


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