# Audio/room correction or Direct ?



## roger1014 (Oct 18, 2011)

I have a Denon 4311ci and am having a hard time getting, what i think, a good 2 channel stereo sound. Is it best to use the Audyssey correction during playback or to use the Direct mode? Notice that in the speaker evals that there was no room correction done! Of course the room, in the evals, already had the needed room treatment.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Tough Question Roger as it will depend on each user as well as some difficult internal issues. I am guessing that you are inputting a signal from a player of some sort into the analog jacks on the back of the unit or HDMI or lastly via a digital connection such as coax or toslink. These inputs will all work about the same.

I am just going to give an opinion here but would also ask that you look at the Audyssey set up and use guide for a much better read and understanding of how that program works. 

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/audio-processing/68407-audyssey-multeq-faq-setup-guide.html

But to get started, the better sound will usually come from setting the Denon to "Direct" or "Pure Direct" when listening to music. This will tend to bypass most of the Denon's internal controls such as bass management etc. This could of course be a problem if you only have satellite speakers as the bass will not be routed to a sub.

In addition, if you have the Audyssey program set to on, it will affect the sound even in direct mode but to a much lesser extent. If you wish the more pure method, turn off Audyssey or set it to bypass L/R channels and then any extra processing will be almost all gone.

Hope this helps


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## mikmaz (Jan 9, 2014)

Hi, 

I always believe I get the best 2 channel playback when using direct mode but maybe the difference is just in my head. I also do not use any audyssey just my external inputs from my denon DVD2910 that has burr brown DAC.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Acoustics help with unwanted reflections, although some listeners like these reflections. Of course we want some diffused reflections... but try to tame the early reflections. REW can show you your larger spiked reflections that you want to try to eliminate, which can disrupt the sound. The smaller reflections are the diffused and help with the soundstage.

We use Pure Audio with the speaker evaluations because we would otherwise have to run Audyssey for every speaker. Plus we want to test them for strictly two-channel, and some enthusiasts will simply have a preamp and amp, not a receiver or processor with Audyssey.

Tell us more about your room and other equipment, speakers, etc... and how you have your speakers setup in the room.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

We are actually going to test the differences between Pure Direct and Audyssey on the MartinLogan Montis while Wayne is here this week, so we can likely give you some idea of what we like the most. We may also simply equalize the Montis with a miniDSP or Behringer 1124p and compare all three.

Sometimes flat can initially seem dull, but the longer you listen, you might begin to like it. After all... flat is what the studio intends for you to hear.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Savjac said:


> In addition, if you have the Audyssey program set to on, it will affect the sound even in direct mode but to a much lesser extent.


Since it (and most other DSP) is bypassed in Direct Mode, how does Audyssey affect the sound?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I don't think Audyssey equalization would effect anything, although something in Audyssey setup could... maybe the crossover, which would be disabled in Pure Direct?

We will take some measurements here shortly and find out if the processor is doing anything with Audyssey Off vs Pure Audio.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> I don't think Audyssey equalization would effect anything, although something in Audyssey setup could... maybe the crossover, which would be disabled in Pure Direct?


Sure, the crossover would be disabled in Pure Direct (as opposed to Stereo) and that would make a difference. However, it is not an effect of Audyssey since you could defeat Audyssey and still have a difference between Stereo and Pure Direct.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I guess I was thinking more of there being Audyssey Setup and then Audyssey EQ. The EQ is what we actually defeat, not the setup portion that is done during Audyssey setup.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> I guess I was thinking more of there being Audyssey Setup and then Audyssey EQ. The EQ is what we actually defeat, not the setup portion that is done during Audyssey setup.


Oh. I do not regard any of that as Audyssey. The information is measured by Audyssey and set in the AVR but, at least for bass management, by the criteria set by the AVR manufacturer, not by Audyssey. Also, these settings can be manipulated or defeated by the user. Indeed, Audyssey's preferences for bass management are different from that of most of their clients.

So, for me, the only thing Audyssey that remains after setup is Audyssey EQ. (Oh, there's also DSX, Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume but I have no use for these.)


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

This has stumped me as well, but I find that in my Denon, if I had the Audyssey EQ engaged, even if I am running direct or pure direct it appears that the EQ set by that program remains.
If I then go back and set the Audyssey EQ to bypass the L&R speakers then the sound I hear does not sound equalized any longer.

So what I am saying I guess is that the AEQ is active on all settings if it has not been disabled in the main set up menu. My assumption early on was that using the 7.1 analog inputs and direct would in conjunction with each other, defeat the EQ setting. It appears it does not.

As such, my suggestion is to start out with Audyssey turned off before listening should the listener choose to hear the speakers as if a regular pre-amp and amplifier were used without any room EQ.

Am I off base here ?


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

In my 5509 Audyssey has to be set for each source, so turning it off while on one source does not turn it off for all sources.

We just ran Audyssey Pro. I will get the mdat from Wayne and post it later, but there is no difference in the unequalized response between Pure Audio and Stereo with Audyssey turned off with the fronts set to Full Band.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

Sonnie said:


> We just ran Audyssey Pro. I will get the mdat from Wayne and post it later, but there is no difference in the unequalized response between Pure Audio and Stereo with Audyssey turned off with the fronts set to Full Band.


Bingo. That is what it should be.


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Ok I understand.
I will have to try that further and see where I am going wrong.

Thanks for posting that info Sonnie.


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## fokakis1 (Feb 29, 2012)

Sonnie said:


> In my 5509 Audyssey has to be set for each source, so turning it off while on one source does not turn it off for all sources.
> 
> We just ran Audyssey Pro. I will get the mdat from Wayne and post it later, but there is no difference in the unequalized response between Pure Audio and Stereo with Audyssey turned off with the fronts set to Full Band.


Same for me. I have my fronts set to Full Band, and EQ and tone controls are off/flat. With my subs turned off I cannot hear a difference between Stereo and Pure/Direct modes. Measurements with REW are identical as well.


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

So... Audyssey or Direct (Pure Audio)...

After fairly extensive comparison listening... Wayne and I tentatively concluded (subject to further listening) that we both like Audyssey Music over Pure Audio, with the Montis running full range.

For the record... and not sure it really matters, but neither of us can hear a difference between HDMI and Optical Digital going from the OPPO 105 to the Onkyo 5509 (press of a button on the remote to swap between the two).


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## roger1014 (Oct 18, 2011)

fokakis1 said:


> Same for me. I have my fronts set to Full Band, and EQ and tone controls are off/flat. With my subs turned off I cannot hear a difference between Stereo and Pure/Direct modes. Measurements with REW are identical as well.


I just did some quick sound checks and found, at least for me, there was a difference between Stereo and Direct.
The main difference I found was that the sound level in Direct was lower such that is was really noticeable. 

hmmm..maybe the Dynamic Volume is used in the Stereo mode. Going to do some more checks!

Denon 4311ci, MartinLogan Preface main speakers driven by an Emotiva UPA-5


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## Savjac (Apr 17, 2008)

Sonnie said:


> So... Audyssey or Direct (Pure Audio)...
> 
> After fairly extensive comparison listening... Wayne and I tentatively concluded (subject to further listening) that we both like Audyssey Music over Pure Audio, with the Montis running full range.
> 
> For the record... and not sure it really matters, but neither of us can hear a difference between HDMI and Optical Digital going from the OPPO 105 to the Onkyo 5509 (press of a button on the remote to swap between the two).


May I suggest another test ? What the its only time and the press of a button.

Turn Audyssey "Off" for the input you are using, then select "Direct" on the AVR and "Pure Audio" on the Oppo, this should be as close to a straight pipe as you may get without going the analog in route.


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## roger1014 (Oct 18, 2011)

Sonnie said:


> So... Audyssey or Direct (Pure Audio)...
> 
> After fairly extensive comparison listening... Wayne and I tentatively concluded (subject to further listening) that we both like Audyssey Music over Pure Audio, with the Montis running full range.
> 
> For the record... and not sure it really matters, but neither of us can hear a difference between HDMI and Optical Digital going from the OPPO 105 to the Onkyo 5509 (press of a button on the remote to swap between the two).


So far, in all my testing, I also like the Stereo mode with Audyssey running. But there is a difference between when Audyssey is set to Bypass for the Front L/R or Off! I think that is for multi channel sources such as SACDs.

I ask question, in Audyssey website, and got a reply stating that all listening should be done with Audyssey enabled!


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## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

roger1014 said:


> I just did some quick sound checks and found, at least for me, there was a difference between Stereo and Direct.
> The main difference I found was that the sound level in Direct was lower such that is was really noticeable.
> 
> hmmm..maybe the Dynamic Volume is used in the Stereo mode. Going to do some more checks!
> ...


We DV and DEQ set to off in Stereo mode. It will definitely affect it.




Savjac said:


> May I suggest another test ? What the its only time and the press of a button.
> 
> Turn Audyssey "Off" for the input you are using, then select "Direct" on the AVR and "Pure Audio" on the Oppo, this should be as close to a straight pipe as you may get without going the analog in route.


The OPPO already sends a Pure Audio signal... there is no processing in it.

If I use analog outs, the its Sabre DAC will convert the signal. We plan to compare the Analog out on the OPPO via the Balanced outputs... to the HDMI and Digital outs.


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## roger1014 (Oct 18, 2011)

Sonnie said:


> We DV and DEQ set to off in Stereo mode. It will definitely affect it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I asked Denon, that if I use the multi channel analog outputs of my Oppo 103, would the Audssey still be used on these inputs? They replied that I would need to use the speaker setup in the Oppo!

Wish I had the Oppo BPD-105!


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## fokakis1 (Feb 29, 2012)

roger1014 said:


> I just did some quick sound checks and found, at least for me, there was a difference between Stereo and Direct.
> The main difference I found was that the sound level in Direct was lower such that is was really noticeable.
> 
> hmmm..maybe the Dynamic Volume is used in the Stereo mode. Going to do some more checks!
> ...


Yeah, make sure Dynamic EQ is turned off as well when comparing.


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