# BFD w/ REW + Audyssey - Which order?



## dondino (Feb 12, 2010)

I have an Onkyo 905 with a pair of Epik Empires. I have REW set up and all calibrated. I also have a BFD1124. My question is do I need to disable the Onkyo EQ (Audyssey) and get the subs flat at the listening position THEN run Audyssey and THEN apply filters to BFD?

I'm just confused as to which order to do these things. I don't want to spend hours on one thing only to realize the next EQ step will screw up all my work from the previous one.

Thanks for any assistance!

Don


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## Ricci (May 23, 2007)

Use REW and the BFD prior to running Audyssey. Let Audyssey bat clean-up.


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## dondino (Feb 12, 2010)

Ricci said:


> Use REW and the BFD prior to running Audyssey. Let Audyssey bat clean-up.


Thanks for the reply ... should I turn EQ completely off in the Onkyo before anything? It's options now are Off, manual (7 band per channel) and Audyssey.

Don


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## gperkins_1973 (Aug 25, 2008)

NO NO NO NO.... Audyssey first and BFD second. I did the BFD first and Audyssey ruined my flat perfect curve. I then re did Audyssey again but first which gave me a pretty nice curve and then applied the BFD filters. Much much easiers and gave me a better result. 

Try both ways yourself but you will see that the BFD second it way the best way to do it.

cheers

Graham


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## corock (Sep 7, 2009)

I, as well, had better luck running Audyssey first then BFD. My reasoning is I use a house curve for music and Audyssey will knock it back down if its applied after the BFD filters.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Ricci said:


> Use REW and the BFD prior to running Audyssey. Let Audyssey bat clean-up.


Why would someone use Audyssey with REW? I'd turn it off myself.


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## dondino (Feb 12, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> Why would someone use Audyssey with REW? I'd turn it off myself.


Huh? Are you kidding?

Maybe I'm not understanding?


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## corock (Sep 7, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> Why would someone use Audyssey with REW? I'd turn it off myself.


Well REW is used to measure your frequencies wether you've used Audyssey or not. I personally take measurements with it and without it, so I'm not sure what you mean.


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## dondino (Feb 12, 2010)

So you disable Audyssey on your system and adjust your entire FR spectrum with REW filters? That's impressive.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

dondino said:


> So you disable Audyssey on your system and adjust your entire FR spectrum with REW filters? That's impressive.


I don't even have Audyssey anymore. But filtering above 200hz is usually not effective. If you have an SPL meter you can match volumes yourself. Filtering manually isn't that hard actually.


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## dondino (Feb 12, 2010)

lsiberian said:


> I don't even have Audyssey anymore. But filtering above 200hz is usually not effective. If you have an SPL meter you can match volumes yourself. Filtering manually isn't that hard actually.


Yes I agree but isn't there a lot more that Audyssey does? Like, I know you can SPL all the speakers to the same level but I thought Audyssey EQ's all the speakers across the whole FR spectrum in relation to the seating positions? Not to mention other things it does like phase settings, trim levels, etc.

I don't know. All I know is it does a of lot of calculations for a good 10 minutes after doing the mic tests LOL.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

dondino said:


> Yes I agree but isn't there a lot more that Audyssey does? Like, I know you can SPL all the speakers to the same level but I thought Audyssey EQ's all the speakers across the whole FR spectrum in relation to the seating positions? Not to mention other things it does like phase settings, trim levels, etc.
> 
> I don't know. All I know is it does a of lot of calculations for a good 10 minutes after doing the mic tests LOL.


People have mixed opinions on Audyssey. I think it's overrated and unnecessary. In audio there are a lot of unnecessary things, but you will see them sold as the best thing since sliced bread.


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## Moonfly (Aug 1, 2008)

I always go with manual eq first, the apply Audyssey. As already mentioned though, if you wish to apply house curve (which I personally frown upon) then BFD should go last.

I swear by Audyssey, and think it is an excellent free tool.


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## corock (Sep 7, 2009)

IMO the "usefullness" of Audyssey, or any eq system, comes down to several variables that differ from application to application. A persons system may sound fantastic in their room without any eq and Audyssey wouldn't be needed. I personally have a very odd room with no treatments and speakers that have very crisp highs. Audyssey works well in my environment, but I can understand why others wouldn't need or want it. 

Also, without a house curve I can see where it would make sense to use BFD as a rough eq and let Audyssey do the fine work. Not to mention that by using BFD after you are altering frequencies that Audyssey's calcualtions were based on. But, as always, its the end that matters and not the means. As long as the results are good, does it really matter how we got there?


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## dondino (Feb 12, 2010)

corock said:


> IMO the "usefullness" of Audyssey, or any eq system, comes down to several variables that differ from application to application. A persons system may sound fantastic in their room without any eq and Audyssey wouldn't be needed. I personally have a very odd room with no treatments and speakers that have very crisp highs. Audyssey works well in my environment, but I can understand why others wouldn't need or want it.
> 
> Also, without a house curve I can see where it would make sense to use BFD as a rough eq and let Audyssey do the fine work. Not to mention that by using BFD after you are altering frequencies that Audyssey's calcualtions were based on. But, as always, its the end that matters and not the means. As long as the results are good, does it really matter how we got there?


This thread has gotten me to re-evaluating the usefullness of Audyssey, thats for sure. Going to be a long weekend of testing now! ... thanks guys :blink:


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## Ricci (May 23, 2007)

Opinions do differ, but I prefer to let Audyssey go last, or not to use it at all. I'm still undecided on it. I generally try to use as little EQ as possible if I can. 

I assume that everyone is talking about the sub channel mainly. It all comes down to personal opinion. Audyssey tries to get a flat response over a large listening area, but it has a limit built in to the amount of boosting and cutting it will do. Some people don't like flat bass, or they want a house curve or boost or whatever. That's fine, but not my preference. Another thing to consider is that you may have gotten a supremely flat graph at one tiny spot in your room where you expect your head to be and that is also fine, but others go for a good average response over a large area and range of listening positions instead of one dedicated spot with a great response. Audyssey is good at the former. Again preferences.

Graham,

obviously something wasn't right about your nice flat curve. Either that or you didn't measure in the same spot with Audyssey that you measured it with REW.


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## Ricci (May 23, 2007)

dondino said:


> Thanks for the reply ... should I turn EQ completely off in the Onkyo before anything? It's options now are Off, manual (7 band per channel) and Audyssey.
> 
> Don


Yes. The first thing to do is remove ALL eq and get things as smooth as possible naturally. That way the least amount of EQ is needed for correction. Then add your BFD or Audyssey which ever first if you want to use them. Just make sure that you are EQing the same things if you decide to stack EQ from Audyssey with some other device. If you measure at 6 positions with Audyssey, you would need to measure at exactly the same 6 positions when using REW/BFD and apply EQ to the average response.


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## corock (Sep 7, 2009)

I'm in both camps. If the sub channel was my only concern I would turn Audyssey off, It's counter productive to what I try to acheive. But the reality of my situation is my full range speakers need help, and they sound a lot better with Audyssey than without.


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