# Whatever happened to real music?



## Lumen

Is there an explanation for what people like? Can you account for taste? To each their own! Check out this little snippet.


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## Kal Rubinson

BlueRockinLou said:


> Is there an explanation for what people like? Can you account for taste? To each their own! Check out this little snippet.


You got my curiosity but, fortunately, I keep my computer muted by default, so when that little snippet came up, I was spared. I do not have to listen to that to know I don't want to listen to it but there is a long history of acceptance of "de gustibus non est disputandum." I probably dislike what you like but so what?


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## JBrax

That was brutal! Not a speaker made that can fix that sound.


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## tonyvdb

auto tune LOL


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## Lumen

Kal Rubinson said:


> You got my curiosity but, fortunately, I keep my computer muted by default, so when that little snippet came up, I was spared. I do not have to listen to that to know I don't want to listen to it but there is a long history of acceptance of "de gustibus non est disputandum." I probably dislike what you like but so what?


Ouch?


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## willis7469

Well..... That was fun?
It's a good question Lou. I think lots of today's popular music is just garbage. The art of building,and crafting a song has been lost to the formula. Why are so many modern songs into the chorus after one measure? To hurry up and get it over with and to get on to the next song. No craft any more.


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## robbo266317

The biggest problem is the industry and their formula of "what people will buy". A lot of artists get rejected because it doesn't fit their mold.
Thankfully we still have independent labels and radio stations that are willing to listen to new and unique material.
Locally we have the ABC radio Triple J that has an "Unearthed" competition each year to find new, unrecorded, talent.


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## tonyvdb

You know where I find there is a lot of hidden talent? In the churches that have good worship bands. Our church alone has had three different individuals/bands produce CDs that get radio play just in the last 5 years.


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## Lumen

willis7469 said:


> Well..... That was fun? It's a good question Lou. I think lots of today's popular music is just garbage. The art of building,and crafting a song has been lost to the formula. Why are so many modern songs into the chorus after one measure? To hurry up and get it over with and to get on to the next song. No craft any more.


Yes, seems like anyone with a computer can create songs using drum tracks and sound bites. Some put enough effort into that type of craft to have something worthwhile to listen to come out the other end. And speaking of quick, short songs: have you ever seen/heard the "A Song In 60 Seconds" music videos on Palladia? Some of them are quite good, and the artists have interesting personalities/character. Both Dish Network and DirecTV carry the Palladia station.



robbo266317 said:


> The biggest problem is the industry and their formula of "what people will buy". A lot of artists get rejected because it doesn't fit their mold. Thankfully we still have independent labels and radio stations that are willing to listen to new and unique material. Locally we have the ABC radio Triple J that has an "Unearthed" competition each year to find new, unrecorded, talent.


I'm with you on this! Record companies used to recognize potential talent, take qualifying bands under their wing, and help nurture their development into superstars. Many times they just find a pretty face with fashionable moves. Have to go with what sells the most. No time to help artists mature. Your local competition breathes new life into a much needed rejuvenation of the musical arts.



tonyvdb said:


> You know where I find there is a lot of hidden talent? In the churches that have good worship bands. Our church alone has had three different individuals/bands produce CDs that get radio play just in the last 5 years.


This is very true! Hard to discuss this without offending someone, so I'll try not to. Used to be that worship bands were more about pushing the underlying message onto their audience. Present day worship bands (my son was a bass player for a good while) churn out some very catchy tunes with sophisticated lyrics. Congrats on your hard earned airplay!

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## Kal Rubinson

Kal Rubinson said:


> You got my curiosity but, fortunately, I keep my computer muted by default, so when that little snippet came up, I was spared. I do not have to listen to that to know I don't want to listen to it but there is a long history of acceptance of "de gustibus non est disputandum." I probably dislike what you like but so what?





BlueRockinLou said:


> Ouch?


Why ouch? It is just as likely you won't care for what I like but there's no reason why each of us cannot be happy.


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## Lumen

Kal Rubinson said:


> Why ouch? It is just as likely you won't care for what I like but there's no reason why each of us cannot be happy.


Hello Kal! True words, and no hard feelings. Your celebrity status as a reviewer/editor in the audiophile world intimidated me, so I took your post personally. "Ouch?" seemed like a safe reply. Just letting out my feminine side :R

BTW, I don't like the band in the video or what they're playing. I do like it for it's comical relief (i.e. I truly LOL each time I see it). Just thought others would react the same way. My intro write-up wasn't the best means to that end.


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## koyaan

Could be why we're still listening to JS Bach 300 years later. Pop music just isn't made for the long run.
Though music doesn't have to be old to be good. Kerry Turner is a case in point.


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## chashint

The fans of any particular genre of music might disagree that any other particular genre is worth listening too.
Classical music might be just as unbearable to an individual as gangster rap is to a different individual.


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## Kal Rubinson

koyaan said:


> Could be why we're still listening to JS Bach 300 years later. Pop music just isn't made for the long run. Though music doesn't have to be old to be good. Kerry Turner is a case in point.


Time and history filter whatever is popular so that we are left with what's best from the past..........in any genre.


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## Philm63

chashint said:


> The fans of any particular genre of music might disagree that any other particular genre is worth listening too.
> Classical music might be just as unbearable to an individual as gangster rap is to a different individual.


Personally; my collection includes the likes of Mozart, Ludacris, Josh Groban, Diana Krall, and Metallica, and I listen to all of them with equal enthusiasm. But that snipet in Lou's OP; not sure what to think about that one. Hard to listen to. For me. But it was a live performance, and there was, I assume, an audience...?

Interesting topic, indeed.


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## lcaillo

There has never been a problem finding bad music and bad sound. Pervasive media access makes it that much easier. I do wonder what the appeal is, but don't spend much time on that thought.

I think there is lots of good music these days. Lots of talented people are getting heard that would never have been known thirty years ago. At the same time there is more to filter.


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## Lumen

Philm63 said:


> Personally; my collection includes the likes of Mozart, Ludacris, Josh Groban, Diana Krall, and Metallica, and I listen to all of them with equal enthusiasm. But that snipet in Lou's OP; not sure what to think about that one. Hard to listen to. For me. But it was a live performance, and there was, I assume, an audience...? Interesting topic, indeed.


Your musical taste has quite a range. I think that's the case with more people than not; but the sharply divided opinions on many other forums make their existence seem questionable. Having a wIde range of interests is a good thing in my opinion, and fosters personal growth. Elementary and secondary students enrolled in a music class have been shown to perform better in other subjects. It's a shame that music is one of the first curriculums to fall under the budget cutting axe.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## Philm63

BlueRockinLou said:


> Your musical taste has quite a range. I think that's the case with more people than not; but the sharply divided opinions on many other forums make their existence seem questionable. Having a wIde range of interests is a good thing in my opinion, and fosters personal growth. Elementary and secondary students enrolled in a music class have been shown to perform better in other subjects. It's a shame that music is one of the first curriculums to fall under the budget cutting axe.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using HTShack


I did grow up with music - played in band (alto sax), orchestra (cello and string bass) and jazz band (electric bass) all through my elementary and jr. high school years. Most kids back then didn't care much for Mozart. Me? I lived for it. Oddly. But I suppose that's where the breadth of music appreciation comes from - knowing how it's made lends to a greater appreciation, IMHO.

Now if we can just get more recording companies to mix it like it sounds in _real life_...


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## Lumen

Philm63 said:


> I did grow up with music - played in band (alto sax), orchestra (cello and string bass) and jazz band (electric bass) all through my elementary and jr. high school years. Most kids back then didn't care much for Mozart. Me? I lived for it. Oddly. But I suppose that's where the breadth of music appreciation comes from - knowing how it's made lends to a greater appreciation, IMHO. Now if we can just get more recording companies to mix it like it sounds in real life...


Your "oddity" is more of a "minority" in the greater scheme of things. Classical music carries not so much a superiority as it does a complexity. Consider how Ralph Machio defeated his rival in a dueling guitar battle (from the film "Crossroads"). His Classical music lessons paid off big time!

as far as capturing the sound...
You might want to check out this discussion http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...re-good-audio-engineers-record-producers.html and this one ____________ (TBD... reached my bus stop so gotta go)

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## willis7469

Not to mention Ralph had Steve via (or joe satriani,can't remember off hand) behind the wizards curtain! Lol


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## Lumen

willis7469 said:


> Not to mention Ralph had Steve via (or joe satriani,can't remember off hand) behind the wizards curtain! Lol


Interesting! Thanks for that! Sorry for abrupt answer from Bouncy-Bus!

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## Lumen

BlueRockinLou said:


> as far as capturing the sound...
> You might want to check out this discussion http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...re-good-audio-engineers-record-producers.html and this one ____________ (TBD... reached my bus stop so gotta go)
> 
> Sent from my iPad using HTShack


Apologies to you too, Philm63, for that abrupt ending to my earlier post. Click HERE for the second discussion I promised to reference. :R


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## thrillcat

Well, it all started when a group of used car dealers in Texas wound up in the radio business because the radio group they loaned some cash to couldn't pay it back. Then they spent a year analyzing just how little music they could play and still retain listeners, since the ads made the money.

Fast forward to 1996 when President Clinton deregulated the industry and allowed a media group to own more than 40 stations. Clear Channel now owns over 1100 stations. Not to mention the venues, promotions and management companies, etc. that they own and operate. They can literally pull a kid out of a bathroom stall at a freeway rest stop and make him the next Blake Shelton if they want to.

Record labels now have fewer people to cater to. They can produce fewer records and get the same airplay. And they've since discovered that they can spend even LESS money producing FEWER artists if they develop "crossover artists" that Clear Channel will play on multiple formats - think Taylor Swift.

So not only do you now have fewer songs played on the radio, you have fewer artists recording those songs. For the major labels, anyway.

I'm by no means saying there's no good music out there. There's GREAT music out there. The fact that anyone can open up a laptop or iPad and record a song can be both good and bad. Think of all the kids out there that are musical prodigies living in some small town in the midwest that would've never stood a chance of being discovered. Now they can publish their own stuff. You just have to wade through the garbage to get to it. And believe me, there's a lot of garbage - thanks to American Idol putting the terrible singers on television alongside the handful that have a bit of talent.

My method of discovering good new music: 
Pick one of your favorite artists. If they're playing smaller venues, skip the next step. 
If they already play arenas and stadiums, start an iTunes Music or Pandora playlist. Listen to the other artists in that playlist. 
Pull a few you've never heard of but like. 
Pull up their tour schedule on Pollstar.com. 
See what venue they're playing at in San Francisco. 
Go sample every other band booked at that venue.
You'll find new music.


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## thrillcat

Also, go watch this. I think it's still on hulu.com.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0760307/


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## AudiocRaver

Not going to say I liked it, It did tickle my interest a little.

What I did enjoy was seeing young musicians willing to experiment. In 10 years they may be rocking the world with fantastic music way beyond anything we can imagine. Or not.

There's a lot of what I like that could very well end up in snippets such as the one in the first post. Music is the most personal of the arts, as far as I can tell.

The right to poke fun goes hand in hand with the right to make a joyful or heartfelt vibration and call it music.

Of course we are just having fun here, not looking for a deep philosophical discussion. And I can laugh at some music like the next guy, but usually because it is so commercial, not for experimentation. I'm extremely liberal about what is good or bad about art. You haven't heard some of the stuff I've written. Probably never will.


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## NBPk402

BlueRockinLou said:


> Is there an explanation for what people like? Can you account for taste? To each their own! Check out this little snippet.


Reminds me of Yoko Ono. LOL


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## Wux90

Good music is around just takes some looking into i.e. 

Meadowlark - Postcards 

CRNKN - The Grip (Feat. Sara Kendall)

Forest Swords - Panic 

Emmit Fenn - 1995

Paradisia - Dancing In The Dark

Interstellar - Victor Ruiz


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## BP1Fanatic

YOUR record companies invested in private prisons in the 1990's. They use Hip Hop music to fill those prisons. Those prisons are required to have a 90% occupancy rate. If that rate is not met, YOUR tax $'s pays those record companies. If YOU have a vested interest in those $'s, then why would YOU bother wasting time and $ in other genres of music???


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## BP1Fanatic

CoreCivic - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org





CCA = As of 2017 CoreCivic's shares are mainly held by institutional holdings (The Vanguard Group, BlackRock, Fidelity Investments and others).

*Lobbying efforts*
CCA lobbyists have worked to shape and support private prison legislation in many localities, including Texas, New York, Illinois and Tennessee. Between 2002 and 2012, CCA spent $17.4 million lobbying the Department of Homeland Security, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), the Office of Management and Budget, the Bureau of Prisons, both houses of Congress, and others. This sum included $1.9 million in campaign contributions.
According to the _Boston Phoenix,_ CCA spent more than $2.7 million from 2006 through September 2008 on lobbying for stricter criminal laws and mandatory sentencing terms, in order to generate prisoners. CCA responded that it does not lobby lawmakers to increase jail time or push for longer sentences under any circumstance, noting that it "educates officials on the benefits of public-private partnership but does not lobby on crime and sentencing policies.


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## BP1Fanatic

Major Labels & Private Prisons – Musical Hegemony


Posts about Major Labels & Private Prisons written by Admin




musicalhegemony.com





Ninety percent of what Americans read, watch and listen to is controlled by only six media companies. PBS’s Frontline has described the conglomerates that determine what information is disseminated to the public as a “web of business relationships that now defines America’s media and culture.” Business relationships. Last year a mere 232 media executives were responsible for the intake of 277 million Americans, controlling all the avenues necessary to manufacture any celebrity and incite any trend. Time Warner, as owner of Warner Bros Records (among many other record labels), can not only sign an artist to a recording contract but, as the owner of Entertainment Weekly, can see to it that they get next week’s cover. Also the owner of New Line Cinemas, HBO and TNT, they can have their artist cast in a leading role in a film that, when pulled from theaters, will be put into rotation first on premium, then on basic, cable. Without any consideration to the music whatsoever, the artist will already be a star, though such monopolies also extend into radio stations and networks that air music videos. For consumers, choice is often illusory. Both BET and MTV belong to Viacom. While Hot 97, NYC’s top hip hop station, is owned by Emmis Communications, online streaming is controlled by Clear Channel, who also owns rival station Power 105.


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## BP1Fanatic

No Leadership


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## BP1Fanatic

Pete Rock: “Where i come from if your talent wasnt for real you had no chance. The music business is built for music people not just any artist, any DJ or any producer. God had to bless you with something real to share with the world in order to be seen or heard your true talent had to shine through.”


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