# Starting from Scratch



## carlusna (Feb 23, 2010)

I am looking to spend about 2000 dollars on a new setup, including the tv, which will probably be 1000 to 1200 of it. I am military thus I move quite a bit, so I never know what size room I will have for my tv, because of this I have basically ruled out plasmas (I might have lots of windows and glare). I would eventually like a decent 5.1 system with a 46 to 52 inch tv. I don't mind waiting to get it all, even if that means starting with a receiver and 2 speakers and adding the sub and other speakers later. Mainly I want quality, ease of use, compatibility, and kid friendly. I have to be able to set it up myself, including tuning all the items ( I am capable with electronics but I am no audiophile.) My wife has to be able to use it while I am away (the fewer remotes the better), and I want it to last so that I don't have to replace components. I have an xbox 360 I will be hooking up, if that matters. Also I have a 2 year old and another on the way, do people have problems with kids knocking their speakers over?

I know this is long, answer all or part of it, thanks.


----------



## carlusna (Feb 23, 2010)

A couple other things. It has to sound good quiet. So that I can watch something and be able to understand it while my wife studies, kids nap. I have bose headphones. 
Also It seems like a lot of the tvs, bluray players and receivers out there have duplicate features, such as up scaling and various audio and video enhancements, how do I know which ones are overlapping, and which ones to use if they overlap. 
I want this for tv, movies, games and a little bit of music.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
As 3D capable Displays are about to hit the market, there are excellent deals to be had for current LCD's.
That being said, being so close to 3D capable Displays and AV Receivers which are designed to support it via the forthcoming HDMI 1.4 specification, you must ask yourself if this is important to you. 
Personally, I am not planning to immediately update, but I would be remiss not to bring this to your attention.

I think your plan of getting the highest quality components over getting the instant gratification of having everything at once is a great one.
I would start out with an A/V Receiver and Pair of Speakers and Subwoofer.

For the AVR, the Onkyo TX-SR706 available for 429 (899 MSRP) is a great place to start. Offers THX Certification, Audyssey MultEQ Room Correction, HDMI Switching and Upconversion and much more.
Here is a link: http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...-Thx-100w-X-7ch-Theater-Receiver-Black/1.html

For Speakers, I would highly recommend PSB Image T-45 Floorstanding Speakers for $479 (749 MSRP)
https://dmc-electronics.com/Default.htm
The Speaker is half way down the page and is the cosmetic B-Stock version. The B-Stock's that I have seen have never looked different than the A-Stock and saves you 50 Dollars.

For a Subwoofer, I would go with SVS's PB-10NSD for $475:http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

Here is a review of the AVR:http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/receivers/3016/onkyo-tx-sr706-av-receiver.html
Here is a review of the PSB T-45:http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/psb_image_t45.htm
Here is a review of the Subwoofer: http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/svs_sbs01.htm
The review is included with SVS's Speakers and actually is the older model. The NSD is actually improved.
Truly a fantastic Subwoofer that will bring you much joy.

These products have an MSRP of over 2100 Dollars and are available for $1,383. Even at retail all products shown truly represent fantastic value and excellent performance.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## carlusna (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks for the reminder about 3-d tvs, I had seen something about this, but I have played the waiting game long enough. I don't see those coming into my price range for a while.

What are the advantages of the onkyo 706 over the onkyo 507 (I do like the ability to play quiet movies accurately). Also I noticed that the all of accessories 4 less receivers are factory refurbished, has anyone had problems with this. I also have a casio privia px-800 (digital piano) my wife plays would I be able to connect that to the receiver, it has:

LINE OUT R, L/MONO jacks: Standard jack x 2
Output Impedance: 1.1 Ω, Output Voltage: 2.2V (RMS) MAX

I agree with the svs sub from reading other posts. I also seems that I could get away without having a sub for a little while especially if I got floor-standing as opposed to bookshelf speakers. 

For the floor-standing speakers, if you mount the tv high on the wall, say five feet, does it matter that the speakers are only 2-3 feet up, would it be better to have bookshelf speakers mounted next to the tv on the wall?

Also If I got the PSB speakers now should I get the same brand and series later for the center and rear speakers so that they match, or can you put any brand of similarly powered speakers in the back and center? I noticed they are 6 ohms nominal, what are the different ohm ratings(do all the speakers have to be the same ohm rating?), does anyone know of a good wiki style explanation of all the different speaker performance terms? Also these speakers seem to be more for music, or is that just the emphasis from the review?

I was also thinking of getting bookshelf sized speakers for the front now to save more money upfront, then using them as rear speakers in a year or so and get tower speakers up front then. Is that a good idea, do you have recommendations for quality speakers that could be used for fronts now and surrounds later?

For tvs I was thinking of either a samsung or sony 46 or 52 inch lcd. at the 1000-1200 dollar range that is a lower end 52 or a middle end 46, I am torn between size and the little bit higher contrast/ 120 hz on the 46 inch vs 60 hz on the 52. Any suggestions?

Thanks for all the advice
Carl


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Carl, if you are planning on mounting the Speakers off the floor, I would not buy Floorstanding Speakers as they are designed to be on the ground. In this case, I would use Monitor or Bookshelf sized Speakers.
And absolutely, if you went with PSB Speakers, you should match your Center Channel and Surrounds with PSB Speakers.

Not all Speaker's have the same nominal ohm rating. Moreover, a Speaker usually drops in ohms above or below the nominal rating depending on the frequency being reproduced. Usually with budget priced Speakers, they are often 8 ohms as they are easier to drive than 6 ohm or 4 ohm. However, the PSB's are not too difficult to drive and would work with the 507. The PSB Image Series are designed for being used with AVR's in mind.
With the TX-SR706 having a stronger amplifier section, it can better handle 6 ohm Speakers than the 507.

The TX-SR706 is 2 Series higher than the TX-SR507 and offers a more advanced version of Audyssey EQ, THX Certification, a more powerful amplifier section and preamp outputs. The two Models are in entirely different leagues with the 507 being an entry level Model and the 706 being closer to flagship. And Onkyo's B-Stock or refurbished units offer a Factory Warranty and everyone I have seen looks brand new. Moreover, the B-Stock allows you to get a much more expensive unit for the same price as the A-Stock current one. You do only get a one year warranty as opposed to two, but again in this instance you are saving more than 50%.

Depending on your viewing distance, I would definitely get the largest quality Panel that you can afford. If you are in a small room, then you might consider getting a better smaller Panel. However, on the whole, the bigger the better.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Here is a pretty good article about Speaker impedance: http://www.hometheatermag.com/bootcamp/40//index.html
If you are planning on waiting before purchasing a Subwoofer, I would definitely go with Floorstanders.
I would definitely not raise them however.

PSB makes Speakers that are both accurate and capable of the high SPL's needed for the best Home Theater experience. While that review might have focused on its Musical attributes, Speakers that excel in Music can most certainly excel in HT. Depending on the type of Music, some pieces of Music place just as much strain on a Speaker as HT requires.

If you are planning on going with the TX-SR507 or another entry level AVR, you might consider Klipsch's or Hsu Research's Horn Loaded Speakers. I say this because they are more efficient. That is they will play louder with less amplifier power. As would be the case with an entry level AVR. 

While the PSB's would work with an entry level AVR, they would sound their best with more power.
Moreover, many prefer Dome Tweeter's over Horns. That being said, there are fans of both.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## s_bellicoso (Jan 1, 2009)

*Re: Starting from Scratch - cabling tips*

Hi....

I have always been a little sceptical over the value of spending money on expensive cabling and interconnects for hi fi and home theater, until recently. After changing a few things, rebuilding my home theater and investing in new optical,(True Colours), HDMI, (Van de Hull), and co-axial cables, (Atlas) the difference in performance and clarity is very impressive. I have also invested in 270 feet of 1/4" diameter core 99.9% Oxygen Free Copper speaker cable to acommodate my new 7.1 system. It all works a treat!!

So the advice is: Do your home work and invest in the best you can afford because sometimes the little things can make a big difference.

Happy listening.:T


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
The quality of Cables can make a real difference. That being said, when "starting from scratch" allocating a large portion of a tight budget to quality Cabling really is not possible.

Once ones HT has been completed or there are no real budgetary concerns, allocating resources to Cabling can indeed help maximize your experience. With HDMI handling what used to require up to 9 cables into 1, it makes even more sense. Especially if needing to use long distances, the quality of HDMI can make the difference between having HDMI Handshake or not.

With Speaker Cables, some Cables construction can make them less prone to picking up RF interference and other gremlins. Moreover, again with long distances, the use of a thicker gauge Cable will make a difference.

Cables and the amount spent can often be a divisive issue. What I advocate is if interested in expensive Cables, to purchase them from a Store which has a generous return/demo policy. That way one can try the Cable and decide if the juice is worth the squeeze.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

To consider.

Get a projector. You said you move a lot and so want light and versitile. You can vary the screen size by room, and you can build a fixed screen on the spot cheaply. It will also be very easy to move with you. (you might also consider a retractable screen: some shade of gray since you are worried about light). This may also lower your cost.

Get the AVR that has the features you want and pre-amp outs.

If you don't mind the look: the best you will get for your buck around that price range is the Behringer 2030P ($130 per pair). Pair them with a decent sub and you'll have excellent sound. You can expand to 5, 6, 7, or 9-channel with more of the same speaker. Since everything in the speaker is mounted on the front baffle, you can even remove the baffle and in-wall mount them.

To really improve your music performance: get a Behringer CX external crossover, and external 2-channel amp, and a second sub (this is why the pre-outs). Run the L/R from the pre-out to the CX, and from the CX to the L/R sub and (via amp) L/R speakers. You will now have full-range fronts (fuller range than any towers of comparable price) and be tonally matched to the rest of the system.

As for cables: go somewhere like Monoprice. Get 14-or-lower AWG speaker wire (I'm erring on the side of caution). If you are running the HDMI a long way, grab that cable from Bluejeanscable.com


----------



## carlusna (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks for the quick responses.

I don't think I want a projector, I don't want to mount one, and this will be in a living room not a deticated home theater so I want the flexibility of turning the tv towards the dinner table ect.

I was thinking about getting just the STS towers and a svs sub. This way I don't have to worry about placing/mounting any speakers on the walls or routing wires around as I live in a rental. Also my couch is against the back wall, which I understand is not the best for 5.1. Has anyone had experience with the sts-01, is it worth the money over the psb t45, its frequency only goes up to 18k.

The Onkyo tx-sr706 shows 7.1 and 100 watts per channel at 8ohms (I can't find the rating at 6ohms), where as the sts towers accept 20-250 watts. So if I ran 2 sets of wires to each speaker from two separate outputs I would get 200 watts max at the speaker, is that right? Would this give my better sound at all volumes or just the capability to go louder? 

One negative thing I found about the 706 was that it clips white above white and black below black from the video. I don't really know what this means or if it matters much. I can't post links yet but you can search google for "sr706 bbb waw"

As far as upgrading to 5.1 in the future, will the s series from svs always be acoustically matched to the current sts towers? I might not get the surrounds and center for 3 to 5 years, would the newer models match, or is that not be practical?


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

carlusna said:


> Thanks for the quick responses.
> 
> I don't think I want a projector, I don't want to mount one, and this will be in a living room not a deticated home theater so I want the flexibility of turning the tv towards the dinner table ect.
> 
> ...


Hello,
I do not believe the 706 offers Biamping so you should just hook up whichever Speakers from the Front Left and Front Right Terminals of the AVR.

As to the STS being rated from 18k, this is a the highest frequencies where most over the age of 30 cannot even hear. Moreover, there is almost zero Music or Movies that have portions at these frequencies.

I would not be too concerned about SVS changing their Design too radically in the future when you buy a Center Channel and Surrounds. Even if they revise them, it would be highly unlikely that they will radically change.

As to the 706 clipping above white and below black, unfortunately many AVR's are not textbook when it comes to Video Processing. It is certainly something that would show up on Test Patterns on Video Calibration Discs, but would not have a major impact on viewing if any at all. The vast majority of people do not even have their TV's calibrated for Black Level and Greyscale in the first place. All of the reviews I have read of the 706 had not made mention of it. FWIW, the 5000 Dollar Yamaha RX-Z11 does the same thing about crushing white and altering below black. Onkyo's Reon equipped AVR's are in the handful of AVR's that really pass every video test.

The STS Towers would be an excellent choice and should bring you years of joy. The PSB's are excellent too so you really cannot lose with either.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

For someone who moves around a lot, I suggest you go with a decent receiver, a pair of good speakers, and as much as I prefer floor standers I'd suggest you go with book shelf, a sub and a fairly inexpensive TV. Why? Well in my experience with moving around a lot,... things get beat up, no matter how careful everyone is.


----------



## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
Also, make sure to not throw away the Boxes and Packaging that comes with all of the equipment that you order. As long as you keep the Original Packaging, you greatly minimize the chances of damaging your Equipment when moving.
Cheers,
JJ


----------

