# In Wall Sealed Speaker Design - Zaph ZA5.3



## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Hey Guys,

I am getting closer to starting my theater build and have all the components I need. Just need to finalize my design for the in wall speakers.

Some background on the project:
110" Projector Screen
Epson 5020
Dayton 12" Reference Sub with 250 watt Dayton Amp -> Design
5 channel Zaph Audio with za5.3 for L/C/R and za5.2 for rears
za 5.3 L & R
za 5.3 center
za5.2 rears
drawings below. My size requirements are limiting both the depth and the width of these speakers, so I am compensating with the height at 29". These are using the in wall crossover from madisound, so I am not overly concerned with the baffle size (should I be?)

Please let me know what you think of these drawings...THANKS


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Interesting... good to know they have an in-wall crossover option, I wasn't aware of that. I'll be keeping an eye on this project.

To actually add something (maybe) useful, I don't think your baffle size should be an issue since they're designed for in-wall use.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Forgot to mention, the volume for these are 14.05 L or .5 cu ft. I haven't compensated for driver displacement, should I?


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

driver displacement will be minimal so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I would worry about internal standing waves in your enclosure because it could cause issues with the midrange, being that the enclosure is so tall. I'd put some fiberglass insulation inside top and bottom to mitigate that possibility. I'd also try to put a couple braces in front to rear.

Question: Why is the width limited to 9 3/4"? Seems a strange size considering in wall studs are usually 16" on center.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

vann_d said:


> driver displacement will be minimal so I wouldn't worry too much about that. I would worry about internal standing waves in your enclosure because it could cause issues with the midrange, being that the enclosure is so tall. I'd put some fiberglass insulation inside top and bottom to mitigate that possibility. I'd also try to put a couple braces in front to rear.
> 
> Question: Why is the width limited to 9 3/4"? Seems a strange size considering in wall studs are usually 16" on center.


Width is due to the placement of my projector screen on the wall and only having about 10 inches on either side before I hit a stud. And if I move to the next stud bay, I will run out of wall...

I was planning on lining the inside with this stuff: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=260-520


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

That stuff might be ok for the back wall but I would use 4-8" of the pink stuff top and bottom. 1/2" of that stuff is only going to be effective above 1 kHz.

So you are only securing the enclosure into one stud?


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

vann_d said:


> That stuff might be ok for the back wall but I would use 4-8" of the pink stuff top and bottom. 1/2" of that stuff is only going to be effective above 1 kHz.
> 
> So you are only securing the enclosure into one stud?


I was planning on anchoring the front baffle to the drywall on all four corners. Probably use something like these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/E-Z-Anco...-Anchors-25-Pack-25225/202055965#.Uk3OjiRkOgA with a recessed screw hole so you can't see the top of the screw.


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

lzrdkng14 said:


> I was planning on anchoring the front baffle to the drywall on all four corners. Probably use something like these: http://www.homedepot.com/p/E-Z-Anco...-Anchors-25-Pack-25225/202055965#.Uk3OjiRkOgA with a recessed screw hole so you can't see the top of the screw.




I would take every measure you can to securely attach the enclosure and/or baffle to the wood studs. I just have this feeling that things aren't going to end well if you hang these enclosures up on the drywall.

Is it possible to make the enclosure fit partially behind the drywall and screen (make it wider) so that you can attach it with wood screws to studs on both sides?


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

vann_d said:


> I would take every measure you can to securely attach the enclosure and/or baffle to the wood studs. I just have this feeling that things aren't going to end well if you hang these enclosures up on the drywall.
> 
> Is it possible to make the enclosure fit partially behind the drywall and screen (make it wider) so that you can attach it with wood screws to studs on both sides?


well I can do that on 4 of the 5 speakers and the sub. It's just the right front speaker that will give me some trouble.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

I still haven't decided whether I am going to use 1/2 inch MDF baffles with wood veneer or a solid hardwood board with routed edges. Cost is a factor, so pricing it out. Lowes has some decent oak and maple boards that are 12 inches wide, just not sure if they would be good for this application.

While I am deciding, I figure I would get all my panels cut (except for the front baffles) and I started gluing tonight with one of the za5.2 rears. Just in case it didn't go well, I could scrap the wood and not lose as much. These are going to be exactly the same dimensions except for the height which is 17.5 to give me a 7L volume. I used one piece of 1/2" x 1/2" MDF for a center brace. Probably didn't even need but figured it wouldn't hurt. I am planning on using two or three of these for each of the ZA5.3 cabinets.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Took the clamps off this morning. The glue job is pretty messy but who cares, they are going in the wall. Already have rear speaker #2 glued up and clamped and will try to get one of the za5.3 glued and clamped tonight after #2 dries.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Doug, as long as the enclosure is sealed properly, you're right about the mess. Taking a step back, it seems like you have access to secure these to studs in most places. I would probably try to put a horizontal cross brace between the studs that would give the speaker more support (if you are able to, I'm not sure how open your walls are). The more secure you can get the speakers, the better.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Owen Bartley said:


> Doug, as long as the enclosure is sealed properly, you're right about the mess. Taking a step back, it seems like you have access to secure these to studs in most places. I would probably try to put a horizontal cross brace between the studs that would give the speaker more support (if you are able to, I'm not sure how open your walls are). The more secure you can get the speakers, the better.


4 of the 5 speakers have open studs behind them so securing them to the studs will not be an issue.

The right front is a different story. The wall behind that speaker is running down my staircase so there is no access to the studs from behind. I will need to see what I can do once I have the wall opened up. Thinking I could wedge a a piece of wood between the studs at the bottom of the speaker and use liquid nails to hold it in place. Would also use some drywall anchors to keep it flush to the drywall. 

I do have access to about a foot of that stud bay from the floor up in the closet behind it. Maybe I could run a 2x4 vertically down the speaker cutout with a horizontal 2x4 attached to the top of it ( a T shape). Then I sit the speaker on top of it and secure the bottom another 2x4 sitting on the bottom plate. Very hard to explain this in words, maybe I need some pictures?

Suggestions are welcome!


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I think the T-brace sounds good. I'd just feel a lot better if I knew there was a real SOLID frame holding things up. If it can be done without causing a major hassle, that's what I'd do. Liquid nails is good, screwing into a framing stud is better, even if you can only reach one or two points. The stronger your brace, the less likely the speaker is to shift, vibrate, or fall.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

I have the first of the front speakers (which are on the first post) glued up. I added two cross braces and was going to put a vertical brace in connected to the top and bottom of the speaker cabinet and glued to the cross braces to form a T shape. Is this overkill or will I see any benefit from doing this?


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Just thinking more about this. Maybe I do a T shape at the bottom and a big H in the middle to connect all the bracing. Because of the shallow depth, I need to be careful. Have to make sure the woofers and crossover will fit. The crossover is HUGE!


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## vann_d (Apr 7, 2009)

Do something to brace the front and back panels because they have the biggest unsupported area. The top and bottom panels are relatively small and should be ok without bracing...


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

vann_d said:


> Do something to brace the front and back panels because they have the biggest unsupported area. The top and bottom panels are relatively small and should be ok without bracing...


Here is my plan for bracing the za5.3 MTM's.

the braces in the middle near the tweeter will be a t shape with the longer piece extending from the back of the speaker to the baffle and the short piece anchoring it to the side of the cabinet.

the other braces that are running from side to side will have two small supports connecting to the baffle and one support that connects it to the back of the cabinet. hope this make sense. I am going to try and get the bracing mods added to the one cabinet I have built already. I'll post pics of it when I have it glued up.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Hey Guys,

need some input on my 5.2 designs. In looking at the zaph recommendations here: http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/ZA5.2s.pdf

I was going to center the 12" x 8" box zaph recommends inside my 8.75 x 17.5 cabinets. But, with the bracing I have already glued in, the driver magnet would hit the brace. So, either I cut the bracing out so it fits, or slide the woofer and tweeter down so the brace runs between them. I have attached a drawing to help:


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Here is what I am proposing as an alternative to moving the brace. One note to help see what I am talking about: the inner rectangle is the zaph cabinet size recommendation. Since this is an in-wall, I dont think the baffle size change really affects anything.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Here is the za5.3 cabinet with all the bracing glued and clamped in:


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Looks like you should be pretty solid, Doug. I'm not sure exactly where the drivers sit, but it seems like you've put together a pretty clever system, and you shouldn't have any very large panels to resonate here.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

OK guys, been busy with some other things, but have made a little progress over the last couple weeks.

Here is the router jig I built to allow me to recess the baffles









And here is the baffle with the 1/2 inch recess done









Here is the front MDF panel of the speaker box sitting in the recess









So I got that done and also got the measurements for my circle jig done. This was a bit of a pain and I had to make several test circles on scrap MDF pieces. I still need to get a hole saw for the tweeters, but here are the 5.25 woofers sitting in the cutouts.
















They are not sitting completely flush yet, as I have to put some gasketing tape on them. Next up is to wire the crossover up and put some dampening material inside the cabinet. I am going to build the first speaker before I move on the to the other 4, just in case I hit a snag that could have been avoided.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Pics aren't showin'!


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

BD55 said:


> Pics aren't showin'!


weird, I see them... here they are again.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Now they're there. Interesting they didn't post the first time. Maybe it's just my machine.

So maybe I missed somewhere earlier, but what's the purpose of the recessed panel in which to set the baffle?


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

BD55 said:


> Now they're there. Interesting they didn't post the first time. Maybe it's just my machine.
> 
> So maybe I missed somewhere earlier, but what's the purpose of the recessed panel in which to set the baffle?


Couple reasons. I think this was discussed on another message board and not in this topic. Originally I was debating between solid wood baffle or a mdf baffle covered in veneer. I was not thrilled with the veneer idea, so someone suggested MDF with a piece of hard wood on the front. The only way I could do this and keep the box dimensions where they needed to be for the 4" depth restriction I have, was to recess the mdf into the hard wood. I also get to mount the drivers directly to the mdf and use the 1/4" hard wood to get a good flush mounted look.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Ahh, now it makes more sense! Very cool looking to have the hardwood front with the stability of the MDF. So the second to last pic is the hardwood with the cutouts for the drivers peeking through from the back.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

BD55 said:


> Ahh, now it makes more sense! Very cool looking to have the hardwood front with the stability of the MDF. So the second to last pic is the hardwood with the cutouts for the drivers peeking through from the back.


Yes exactly. And the last pic is the drivers sitting right on the MDF. As I said before, the drivers will sit flush with the hard wood once I put some gasket tape on them. I actually just picked up a 2-9/16" Irwin Drill Bit and a 1-3/4" Milwaukee Hole Saw. The Milwaukee was only $10, but the Irwin was $40! Not sure I am ever going to use it again, so I might end up selling it. Unless....I decide to do another ZAPH project....

Anyway, I am going to get the tweeter holes drilled out tonight and hopefully start wiring the crossover.

I still don't have screws for the woofers, though. I got these from PE: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=081-1082

Not looking to spend a TON on SCREWS, found these on amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000FN22TY/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Would prefer a black screw, but these large caps are a little bulky in my opinion. Wondering if there is any thing that is a little flatter that would be less obvious on the front of these?

I was planning on using a nice flush mount wood screw with the tweeters...


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Well, I hit my first major snag...this Irwin bit tore up the maple board. I am pretty sure this can be avoided by cutting the hole BEFORE I route out the recessed cavity. The 1/4" thickness of this board, after I did the routing, is very flimsy as you can imagine. 

On the bright side, I think I can salvage this board by piecing things back together. You can see what I am talking about in the pictures...


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## Paulcet (Jun 18, 2013)

First major snag? You're doing great! Looks like you will do ok piecing it back together. Will there be MDF behind the repair?


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

I have the tweeter cut out in the MDF now as well. Much easier than the maple. Pieced together the damage and it doesn't look too bad. We'll see how it turns out after it is all glued together and stained. I know now too do this hole before I route everything else out. The main reason I did it in this order was to make sure everything lined up right, although it seems to be off center (slightly), but not enough to make a real impact. Here are some pics with and without the drivers.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Another option (are you glueing the MDF to the hardwood?) would be to do the recess, glue the MDF in, then route out your holes which would avoid any misalignment issues.

Bummer about the busted pieces, but it does look like you can salvage it no problem :T


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

BD55 said:


> Another option (are you glueing the MDF to the hardwood?) would be to do the recess, glue the MDF in, then route out your holes which would avoid any misalignment issues.
> 
> Bummer about the busted pieces, but it does look like you can salvage it no problem :T


I am gluing them together, but I thought I could get a better seal by clamping in the speaker cutouts. I think if I can use the first piece as a guide, I might be able to align the other 2 MTM baffles. I just don't want to have to use this Irwin bit on the recessed maple again, seeing how bad it chewed it up.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Here is the crossover and speaker terminal installed to the cabinet.





























I had to remove one of the braces to get the crossover to slide in. It is a tight squeeze! Luckily, the brace came out pretty easy, which is a little bit concerning. But, I think once the front is glued in place it should be pretty secure.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

And now with the wiring and crimp on connectors done...




























Next step is foam and fiberglass, hoping to have that done tonight so I can get the front panel glued on.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Looks good. Did you etch your own boards?


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Owen Bartley said:


> Looks good. Did you etch your own boards?


Nope, not trying to take on too much with my first speaker project, I decided to have them pre built by madisound. Bought all these as kits with the woofers/tweeters/x-over's. The price was good enough that it was pretty comparable to buying x-over components separately. I spent about $600 for 3 MTM and 2 TM, so 8 woofers, 5 tweeters and 5 x-overs. Not too bad and they are pre built for in wall application.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

I got the inside sealed with silicone. Also cut the foam to fit in, reglued the brace and put the foam in.








I plan on stuffing the top and bottom with fiberglass as well as covering the crossover with some glass. I was not planning on doing anything with the sides. They are only 3.5 inches wide, so not a ton of surface area and I could foam them if anyone thinks it is necessary or will improve sound.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

BD55 said:


> Another option (are you glueing the MDF to the hardwood?) would be to do the recess, glue the MDF in, then route out your holes which would avoid any misalignment issues.
> 
> Bummer about the busted pieces, but it does look like you can salvage it no problem :T


Been thinking alot about how I am going to do this...one thought is to use my jog to route out JUST the outside edge of the recess which gives me a guide as to where the MDF will sit. I can then clamp the maple to mdf and drill pilot holes where the center of the speakers will be. I think I will try that on the next one.


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## lzrdkng14 (Sep 3, 2013)

Got the insulation in:























This is all the dampening material I was going to put in these cabinets, do you think it is enough?

Now I am just waiting on the hurricane nuts to arrive so I can get the speakers mounted, then I start the final glue. Another question, would you guys glue the mdf to the box before gluing the maple to the mdf? Or should I glue the maple to the front mdf panel first and then glue that to the rest of the box?


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

I would glue the maple to the mdf purely for the reason (in the unplanned event of messing something up) you would have only a lower-level assembly you would have to scrap rather than messing up your higher-level assembly (the in wall unit+crossover+damping material).

Looks great so far! :T


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## Pilk (Sep 2, 2013)

Keep going....I've been using the Zaph center in my HT and I've decided I like them well enough to order the L/R. I went the easy route with the prefab cabinets and feel like for a couple bills you cant go wrong. Makes me wonder about the http://zaphaudio.com/ZDT3.5.html for a real project. I'm not going to go into wood working so I'd need to find a speaker with the right front baffle.


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