# Guarnaccia Mancave 3.0



## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I thought I'd start a home theater construction thread here to get thoughts and ideas for my new theater build. We recently bought 20 acres and an older house that is going to needs a fair bit of renovation, and as a part of that process, I plan to build another dedicated theater. This house has a full basement, and I'm quite excited to get some serious room gain from the concrete walls for once. (mavcave 2.0 had almost no gain) 

Here is the general layout I've spec'd so far:










I plan to do a screenwall, and place the speakers and front subs behind the screen. I'm also planning on doing superchunk bass traps in the corners.

The front wall will have 4 inches of OC703 or something like that as well. The side walls will have something like Linacoustic up to about 42 inches. Not sure what I want to do on the back wall yet. Open to suggestions there.

I plan to do a 2 tier platform with raised seating. It was also suggested I do a hemholtz resonator into the risers so I'm looking into that.

I plan to do stagger stud contruction on the side walls and isolation clips in the ceiling. Double sheetrock with greenglue on both sidewalls and ceiling as well. Would love recommendations on isolation clips that don't cost a fortune. I'm currently thinking greenglue clips or the RSIC-V clips, which are half as much as the RSIC-1's and Whisper clips. 

Here is a few renderings of the room:


















I plan to hide the Sho10's in the columns. Need to figure out light fixtures but currently thinking sconces on the columns.

In terms of HVAC, I'm thinking of not having any heat down there, but not sure yet. I'm worried about sound transmission. Need to research muffling techniques there. 


What else should I be thinking about? Please feel free to point anything I'm about to do that is collosally dumb 



I've been modelling it. The room is long, giving me the ability to build a stage this time to hide the speakers behind the screenwall. I think I'll also been a baffle wall behind the screen as well. 

Here is a view from the front of the room:



I'll be able to have 3 rows of 3 this time. Equipment rack will be along the back wall in the mechanical room behind the theater. 

Here is a shot from the rear:



I'll be going with an accoustically transparent screen that can support 4k. Waiting for the next gen projectors to hit the market at a reasonable price, but want to have everything ready for when they do. 

I'll be double sheetrocking with green glue to cut down on noise outside the room. I also plan to put sand in the platforms to damp them.

A few things I'm trying to decide is how much accoustical treatment to put on the walls. I'll put corner wedges in teh front 2 corners. above the subs. I'm trying with making the entire room fabric lined with OC703 behind it, but I don't want to overdamp the room either. The faux columns will hide the sho10's. Wondering if I should make those fabric wrapped and make them out of OC705 as well. 

Also trying to decide what to do with lighting as well. Do I go with Can lights or sconces? What does everyone think?

I should be getting started in the next few weeks, and will update you all as I get going... 
__________________
LCR: Gedlee Abbeys for LR and Nathan for Center Surround & rear 4 x Sho10's
Subs: SS18.2 & SS18.T
Electronics: Marantz SR7002, Acurus 200x3 (LCR), PS3, HTPC, CDP300, Mits HC1500, Elite 106" Cinewhite


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Woot! Another build thread - I love seeing new projects start.

Really like all the ideas - as far as lighting, I would try to avoid the ceiling cans. If you are going to try to isolate as much as you can, cutting those holes in the ceiling after you have done your isolation will be painful for you to do. 

I would either do sconces or if you are planning soffit, do smaller recessed lights in the soffit.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Yea, I'm leaning towards a combination of sconces and rope lights. I've even heard of some folks using some simple track lighting above the seating area, which might makes some sense as well. I don't think I'll do soffits this time around but I may come back later to do them for accoustics and additional perimeter lighting.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Here is a question for everyone. For long theaters with 3 rows of seating, I've seen a few theaters that have multiple side speakers. In one theater store, I saw they had the side surrounds where the second surround pair had a slight delay behind the first surround pair. 

Has anyone see this? I'm wonder if this is a) needed b) how you'd set this up and c) do any recievers support this? 

What is a feature like this even called?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

This is going to be a good size theatre with a lot of potential, that I'll follow along with interest! :T



> I plan to do a screenwall, and place the speakers and front subs behind the screen. I'm also planning on doing superchunk bass traps in the corners.
> 
> The front wall will have 4 inches of OC703 or something like that as well. The side walls will have something like Linacoustic up to about 42 inches.


That all sounds good..except I would use 2" thick OC705 on the side walls for that height..


> Not sure what I want to do on the back wall yet. Open to suggestions there.


The back wall should also be treated acoustically as well with strategically placed panels ..Or you could cover the back wall with a suitable acoustic material so as not to overly dampen the highs from the surround speakers..
With that size room, there's little chance of over dampening the room..



> I've been modelling it. The room is long, giving me the ability to build a stage this time to hide the speakers behind the screenwall. I think I'll also been a baffle wall behind the screen as well.


A baffle wall is a good idea, providing you use suitable speakers.. 



> A few things I'm trying to decide is how much accoustical treatment to put on the walls. I'll put corner wedges in teh front 2 corners. above the subs.


Also consider putting bass traps in the rear corners as well..


> I'm trying with making the entire room fabric lined with OC703 behind it, but I don't want to overdamp the room either.


If you want to have the side walls with fabric covered insulation, then OC703 should be fine..Your columns would be made of timber, which will help to give some reflectivity of the highs, and will reduced the overall area of the acoustically covered walls..if there are several columns of a reasonable width..



LCR: Gedlee Abbeys for LR and Nathan for Center Surround & rear 4 x Sho10's
Subs: SS18.2 & SS18.T
Electronics: Marantz SR7002, Acurus 200x3 (LCR), PS3, HTPC, CDP300, Mits HC1500, Elite 106" Cinewhite[/QUOTE]


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks Prof. I'll go with 2inch on the sidewalls. I wonder if Linacoustic makes a 2 inch version. 

Any suggestions on how to treat that back wall? When you say strategically placed, does that just means lined up behind the rear seating position to knock down comb filtering? Should I place some sort of HF barier like 6 mil plastic over the absorber to reflect the highs? I was thinking something like Monster traps from GIK or something similar right behind each seat. 

For the baffle wall, I'm using Gedlee Abbeys which are constant Directivity speaker designs so Baffle wall is recommended by Earl Geddes. 

I'm trying to figure out how to do superchunks in the back wall. I have a couple of choces. That little room in the back is really just an equiptment room, so I could do an accoustically transparent wall and hide the superchunks and the rear subs in there, which would make the room that much longer, and might mess with the seating placements being in the 60-80 percent zone in the room. 

Or, I could just build them into the back corners on the stage, but that might crowd the seats and limits where I can put the access door and equiptment rack. Any suggestions either way?

What is the recommended superchunk wedge size? I've read 12 inch diagonal is quite common and allows you to maximize the material. Is that ideal for absorbtion? How low of a frequency will that absorb down to?

For the columns, I was originally thinking of making them our of a wood stuffed with sound absorbtion material (oc703 or something) wrapped in GOM around the frame. Is that overkill? Should I just do wood instead to give some reflection back into the room?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

dguarnaccia said:


> Any suggestions on how to treat that back wall? When you say strategically placed, does that just means lined up behind the rear seating position to knock down comb filtering? Should I place some sort of HF barier like 6 mil plastic over the absorber to reflect the highs? I was thinking something like Monster traps from GIK or something similar right behind each seat.


It will depend on the type of construction you decide on doing..
If the whole back wall will be fabric covered insulation..same as the side walls..then you'll need to have a facing on the insulation, such as alum. foil, plastic or paper faced..
If the construction is going to be insulation up to 42" high only, then you will need to have two large panels, evenly spaced across the back wall and using a faced insulation material.. 



> I'm trying to figure out how to do superchunks in the back wall. I have a couple of choces. That little room in the back is really just an equiptment room, so I could do an accoustically transparent wall and hide the superchunks and the rear subs in there, which would make the room that much longer, and might mess with the seating placements being in the 60-80 percent zone in the room.


Is that back area a separate room? If so then it won't be much point in putting in bass traps in there..
I had overlooked that there is a door in the back corner so it might not be possible to have bass traps in the backs corners if you need to have access to that back space..




> What is the recommended superchunk wedge size? I've read 12 inch diagonal is quite common and allows you to maximize the material. Is that ideal for absorbtion? How low of a frequency will that absorb down to?


If you're using OC705 for the superchunks, then you should get absorption down to about 100Hz..



> For the columns, I was originally thinking of making them our of a wood stuffed with sound absorbtion material (oc703 or something) wrapped in GOM around the frame. Is that overkill? Should I just do wood instead to give some reflection back into the room?


The columns only need to be filled with pink batts (normal ceiling insulation) and preferably not covered..particularly if you go the whole wall insulation route..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

The back wall doesn't exist right now, so I need to decide if I'm going to put a full wall there or an accoustically transparent one. 

Regarding the superchunks, what determines how low the absorbtion goes? Is it the depth of the superchunk? What side would it need to be to get down into the 30s?

Understood on the columns. I'll just cover them with GOM and build the framework out of 1x1's with pink batt in the center.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

The door and the equipment rack can also be moved around as well. I could move them to the center of that back wall if needed. I'll have to think about what I want to do there. I really would like to have superchunks on all 4 corners.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

dguarnaccia said:


> Regarding the superchunks, what determines how low the absorbtion goes? Is it the depth of the superchunk? What side would it need to be to get down into the 30s?


Density and thickness determine how low the absorption is affective..but I don't think it's possible to get down to that lower frequency, in fact I think it would need a different design to get even lower than 100Hz.
Other more experienced acoustics people may be able to throw some light on that..



> Understood on the columns. I'll just cover them with GOM and build the framework out of 1x1's with pink batt in the center.


That still won't reflect the highs! With all the walls covered with insulation, it would be better to build the columns out of timber and paint or stain them, rather than covering them with GOM..
But of course, if that's not part of your decor choice..then you have to go with what you prefer..


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

dguarnaccia said:


> The door and the equipment rack can also be moved around as well. I could move them to the center of that back wall if needed. I'll have to think about what I want to do there. I really would like to have superchunks on all 4 corners.


That would be ideal if you can change the position of the door..Just bare in mind that if you need to place separate acoustic panels on the back wall, they need to be placed symmetrically..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you then. You actually want the surface of the columns to be reflective then. That will actually be easier. I'll just use MDF then and stuff the insides with insulation batt.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

It's better to have some reflectivity in a room that has acoustic insulation through out..providing that reflectivity is not too close to the screen and front speakers..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I like the look of your columns prof. What materials did you use? It that a high gloss finish you used or something more satin finish? I'm going to try to do a red and black motif similar to yours, but with a bit more red throughout.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

The columns were made from plain MDF..The wood grain effect was painted on by me..
The finish was a water based satin..
I've since removed those columns as I found them a bit of a distraction when watching a movie..They were replaced with black velvet covered panels..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Ah, I see. Was it the reflections that was distracting and you solved it by wrapping them with black velvet? Maybe I will wrap them with GOM to knock down the reflectivity.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

No ..it was just that they were there, right next to the sides of the screen! 
Sometimes, decor that looks nice in a lit room, doesn't always work well when watching a movie! All I want to see on the front wall when I'm watching a movie is what's on the screen!!
I dis-assembled them and just made them flat panels, covered with the felt..Now all I see is the screen..

If you decide to go with columns, I would suggest that you keep them plain black..which can look very nice with mouldings applied..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

How wide is your room? I'll have my columns pretty far back, the first one just behind the front row of seats and the second pair just behind the second row. I'm thinking the second row will be the prime seating position, and I'll hide the side surrounds in those columns. I don't think I'll see much of them that far back in the room, and I really want to hide my surrounds.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Ok, new question. The current floor in concrete. I plan to put carpet down with a carpet padding of course, but is that enough? Am I going to have issues with the sound bouncing off the floor? Do I need to somehow trap for that? What sort of absorption would one put on a floor?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

dguarnaccia said:


> How wide is your room? I'll have my columns pretty far back, the first one just behind the front row of seats and the second pair just behind the second row. I'm thinking the second row will be the prime seating position, and I'll hide the side surrounds in those columns. I don't think I'll see much of them that far back in the room, and I really want to hide my surrounds.


That was one of the problems..The room is only 9'10" wide and the screen is 8'6" wide, so the columns were jammed right up against the sides of the screen!

The position of your first column is far enough back not to cause any problems..


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

You can get a special acoustic underlay (can't recall the name) but any good carpet seller should know the product..That together with a good quality carpet will be fine..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

ok, will ask around. I've heard standard carpet pads down't really aborb a wide enough frequency band and don't really do the trick. If anyone else knows the name please feel free to chime in but I'll ask some of my local carpet stores as well. Thanks!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I am not sure which one Prof is talking about, but I am planning on using Dri-Core in my room which serves the purpose of absorbtion as well as a barrier in case of water (my space is in the basement).


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

There are several brands of acoustic underlay that I've found..
Damtec, Angel Step, Silent Step, Nu Wave and Bridgestone Prime..
The first 3 are listed on .com websites, so should be available over there..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks Prof. I need to get some pictures up of the unfinished space. They crew is just about done with the demo work then we'll start framing out the space. I'm going to try to find the one with the highest absorbtion rating. Typical carpet pads don't do a great job asborbing sound energy so hopefully these will be better. I need to also figure out how I want to build absorption into the reflection points on the ceiling.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Just thought I've give an update. The demo work continues, and the basement is slowly getting gutted. Here are a few shots of the space now that some of the walls have been pulled down.



Here is a view of the front wall. You can see the notch in the front where the foundation is pushed out 4 feet. this will be where I corner load the subs for some nice room gain. 














Here is another shot of the side wall where the entry door will be:













And here is a back wall shot. Still need to rip out that stairwell, we've already put a new one in further back in the basement. The back wall will also be moved back 2 more feet to create my equiptment/projection room behind the theater. 














Should be able to start framing the room next week if things go well...


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## MUCHO (Aug 26, 2006)

Subscribed!

Looks like this is going to be good. Real good!

Have you thought about what is the first movie you're going to watch?


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks Mucho,

I just love the original Transformers, so it might have to do that, or LOTR. Will have to flip a coin 

More demo work in the theater. Finally got the rest of the old fireplace removed. Once the new joists are in place we can start framing.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

It's been quite come time since I've made any progress, largely due to my wife and I prioritizing some of the other parts of our remodel ahead of our basement. Now that the rest of the house is largely done, we're back to the basement. 

Quick update, the room has been fully framed with double wall construction instead of just doing stagger studs. This was done to accomodate some large support beams, but will also really help with sound isolation. Here are a few shots of the wall. 



















We've also started installed the sound isolation clips and putting up the hat tracks to hang the sheetrock.




























Just about done ducting the room, then we start sheetrocking and applying the green glue next week. We have 3 5-gallon cans of it that we'll trowel on to get good coverage. 

Now that things are moving again, will start posting more regular updates.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Here is a question for you guys. I'm planning on doing superchunk corner bass traps. I'm going to do 2'x2' chunks, with a 34 inch hypotenuse. For chunks this size, they recommend the pink stuff (R19) would be better than the denser 3 or 7 pound rigid fiberglass. 



Now to the question. since I have 2 subs 18.T and 18.2, I planned to put them in opposing corners. So, 2 corners will have floor to ceiling superchunk traps, but for the 2 corners with subs, it it better to build a shelf and start the trap above the sub, with the sub tight in the corner, or better to locate the sub out of the corner or up against the trap diagonaly? I would probably lose some room gain doing that. The corners are concrete, so I'm hoping for some serious room gain and corner loading. 



My goal is to get as close to flat to 5 hz if I can pull it off. That will probably mean I need another 2 18.2's, but that's a sacrifice I'm willing to make So, eventually I'll need a sub in every corner...



Any thoughts on how best to place these with the corner traps?


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Really moving along now, mancave is fully sheetrocked with double layer of rock plus green glue. Here are some pics of the install:

Here's a shot of the greenglue applied










sheetrock going up!



















Fully sheetrocked mancave










up next, muddin time...


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

It's coming along very nicely..Looks like a good size space!


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks Prof, should be about 4000 sq ft. It's 34'x15.5'x7.5'. Should work well for 3 rows of 3 seats with broadband absorbers build into the risers.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Another week, another update. Room rocked, textured the ceiling and front/back walls painted black. 














I've decided on going with a dark grey instead of red to help improve contrast thanks to Prof's handy sticky on choosing colors. Going to do the behr "Intellectual" color. Wonder if that'll make me smarter when watching movies  Should get it painted tonight.

Need to pick out a coordinating rug before I choose trim colors. Eventually, I'd like to do linacoustic on the lower part of the wall up to 42" covered in a nice fabric. Perhaps I'll work in another color based on the carpet.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

DG..I'm curious to know why you went to the trouble of texturing the ceiling? :scratch:


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

We were spraying everything already and it wasn't much more work. Some of the ceiling will be exposed, especially above the seating area. Is there a reason not to texture in a theater?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

No, that's fine..Since you were spraying already..not a problem..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Sconces are in...










Been looking at carpet, and I'm thinking of going with something like this:










Will tie nicely into the walls and screens material, and will let me weave in some red in certain places like the fabric that I'll use to cover the sidewall sound absorbers.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looking good mate! :T Nice choice on the carpet - an added plus is that it will not show dirt, etc well at all. That is the biggest gripe I have about my living room carpet......


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks! I learned that the hard way on the last mancave...beige carpet bad! never could keep it clean with the wine spilling spouse and the hordes of 12 year old kids that like to camp out in there...


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

The sconces look good and I agree on the carpet choice..:T
With a multi coloured carpet like that, you have a number of choices for matching colours in the rest of the room..


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Not a ton of progress this week, but we did get the ducting to the theater put in and soffited. I wanted to put as many turns and double backs as possible to create a baffle effect to limit sound transmision from the theater room.

here is the duct comming out of the wall










and here is where is snakes back and forth...












Will start putting rockwool across the front wall and building the corner traps this week.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Wow, your build has been going on quite a while and I just found it! Looks like you have a great space to set up an awesome theater; I'm looking forward to seeing the progress!


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks, it's taken a long time to get to the point of critical mass. Now the fun stuff will begin where we can start building stages, platforms, columns, etc. Trying to decide on what style of column, but I'm leaning towards something similar to this design.










I like the curved face to go with the sconces and the curves from the stage and risers.


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## pharoah (Jul 21, 2012)

looks like you have the start of a fantastic media room.i cant wait to see how it turns out.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Made some progress today. Got the front wall covered in Rockwool and all 4 corners traps completed. 

I started my mounting some rails to fix the rockwool onto:










Then, using roofing nails with plastic washers, got it all mounted:










Also got all the R38 cut into triangles and mountained in the front










and the back










Hopefully next weekend we'll be able to start on the stages and risers :T


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## 95silverstallion (Dec 15, 2011)

Your room looks really good. Its good motivation to get me back in the basement and working.

Its that "regular" r38 insualation in the corners for bass traps?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

That is some serious dampening there. I bet it is going to sound awesome when you are done. Hopefully some day I will be able to do something like you are doing.


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

Great project in a good sized room. It's a good thing that you think about acoustic treatment, but beware that your solutions don't work against you. Acoustic treatment is a delicate balance between reflection, absorption and diffusion. Too much of either one can have a negative effect on the total sound.

Either way your room will look great with all front speakers out of sight. I really like the wall-to-wall watching effect.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks gang. And yes, I'm going to be careful not to overdamp the room. I'm not sure I'm going to do the sidewalls yet. I think I'll finish the room first then do some measurements first. The speakers I'm using for the mains for have large waveguides for constant directivity, so I'm less worried about the primary relfection points though I think I'll need to do the ceiling reflection point. I'm hoping I can do a startfield there that is made from OC705.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Is there a specific reason you went with R38 for the bass traps instead of 703/705?


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Yes, from the reading I've done in the acoustics section here and elsewhere, it has been said that less dense material is better for corner bass trapping. I didn't fully understand it, but something about velocity based damping is better done will the pink fluffy stuff. This is what Bryan Pape said in another thread:



> What it's really about is gas flow resistivity. As you get thicker in material, the need for higher density decreases - and less dense material can actually work better.
> 
> If you're going to do the cylinder route, just make sure you get enough diameter to make it work low. Think a minimum of a 16" diameter. Bigger is better.
> 
> ...


Since I'm using 24"x24"x34" inch triangles for the superchunk, I figured that would work better. R38 was just useful because it was thicker and required less cutting.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Hmm..That's very interesting! I'll be interested to hear your evaluation on the fluffy batts effectiveness..
It seems to fly in the face of just about every other theatre that uses 703/705 for corner chunks!


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Will be sure to measure decay and post some waterfalls. Worst case is I'm out 150 bucks if I have to replace with OC703/5


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

If you can lower the ceiling you might consider acoustic ceiling tiles. I treated my ceiling with Ecophon Somba Ds which is black and with a concealed grid. When lowered enough (i.e. 7") it is enough to absorb all frequencies above 125-150Hz. In my build thread you can see how I did it


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I wish I could! The ceiling is pretty low already after the sound isolation clips and double layer of sheetrock, I think I'm at 88 inches. After the 12" risers,will be pretty much out of headroom literally  Will check out your build thread again though, it's been a while since I've read through it.


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> I wish I could! The ceiling is pretty low already after the sound isolation clips and double layer of sheetrock, I think I'm at 88 inches. After the 12" risers,will be pretty much out of headroom literally  Will check out your build thread again though, it's been a while since I've read through it.


My ceiling is about the same height, my riser is 7" and I lowered the ceiling only 3". I can barely stand straight, but I sit down most of the time anyway  It still works but not as efficient, almost everything above 250Hz.

BTW, Ecophon now has the ability to attach the tiles directly to the ceiling.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Mmm, that is very interesting. Do they absorb at a similar level to OC703? I was pondering ordering a starlight kit that is based on 703 for the ceiling reflection area


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> Mmm, that is very interesting. Do they absorb at a similar level to OC703? I was pondering ordering a starlight kit that is based on 703 for the ceiling reflection area


I don't know what OC703 is. I guess it is a acoustic treatment. In the link I posted you can see all technical details. The Sombra Ds is a powerful absorber, so covering your whole ceiling creates a serious difference. About the starlight kit, if you attach the tiles directly to the ceiling there's no room left for hiding cables and stuff like that.


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

One more thing, in my build thread you can see what my ceiling in combination with the panel absorbers (front wall covers everything below 250Hz) did...


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

This looks very interesting. Once the main room is done, I'll start researching ceiling treatments more. I do want to do some testing too, before I overdamp too much. Making some great progress on the risers this weekend. Will post some pics later today.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Ok, bit of an update after this weekend. 



I decided to tackle the main risers first before working on the screenwall. 



Got the framing done first then realized I needed to start pictures!














I put a slight curve in the center of both rows to match the curvature of the berklines. 














This filled the whole thing with Insulation to keep resonance down

























Then started screwing down the decking. I'm using 2 layers of 1/2 MDF...and this is heavy!














and finally, both layers, with liquid nails between the layers as a stiffening agent.

























lotta work for a weekend and I'm beat. Got a quick biz trip to NYC again, and then I'll be back at it to build the stage and screenwall next weekend.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Very nicely done!..I like the look of that concave curvature! :T


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Stolen from the best! Plagarism is the highest form of complement to be sure  Getting excited now that it's getting closer to completion though I'm still a bit worried about the echo in there. Gonna have to do some serious testing once the carpet goes in...


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

dguarnaccia said:


> Stolen from the best! Plagarism is the highest form of complement to be sure


Doesn't everyone!! :rofl:
I think you'll find that a lot of that echo will disappear once the carpet is installed..


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looks great! And, that is really good progress for a weekend of work.....


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Been researching stage designs and I think I've settled on this one from Ronnie Jackson over at AVS..










Love the look of the curved front. Should match my risers nicely I think...


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

Wow! That is one good looking riser :T

Have you seen my solution for hiding the cables and still be able to reach them if necessary?


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

No, I don't think I did see that. Any idea what page in your build thread it is? Which cables are you having to hide? I was hoping not to have too much issue there because everything should be hidden in columns or behind false walls, but I'm a sucker for good ideas


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

What cables you have to hide depends on where you put equipment. I have all my equipment at the back so speaker cables are in there. Also the power cables to the wall sockets hidden in the columns. And in my case also the power cable for the subwoofer.

To get an idea how I did that, you can look here.

By the way if you have everything hidden behind false walls and in columns, you probably won't have any problem


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Gotcha. I think I'm ok on cabling, since I'm hiding everything behind false walls. Going to look into some cable management as well to keep everything neat and tidy behind the screen wall and the rear projection / equipment room.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

As far as the equipment room, I bought a cabinet for $40 from HD. I landed all my conduit into that cabinet and plan to run all the speaker wires, HDMI cables, and what-not to there. I am thinking I will do a patch panel in the door so that I can keep it fairly clean.

Just an idea....


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

That's a great idea. I bought a computer server rack off Craigslist and am going to try to install sliding shelves but if that doesn't pan out, if might try your idea.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I think I have the coolest wife ever! While I was on the road, she had our contractors complete the stage, screenwall and rear false wall. They are putting in the carpet today...

It turned our beautifully. 










Need to adjust the rear wall a bit to house the projector hush box and make room for the equipement rack, but that's pretty minor. 










I'm contemplating putting a veneer on the front of the stage and staining it cherry to bring in some other colors into the room. I think that would look really nice.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

You are blessed to have a wife who would do that for you! :yes:
It's looking very good and I think the cherry wood would set it all off nicely..


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Wow - so lucky! My wife only comes into that room to tell me the kids are going to bed - other than that, I think she considers it a black hole that occasionally spits out her husband..... 

Looks great mate!


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

ALMFamily said:


> ...I think she considers it a black hole that occasionally spits out her husband...


That made me laugh out loud...so true. That was the previous mancave and me...I suspect this next one will be more so :innocent:


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Prof. said:


> I think the cherry wood would set it all off nicely..


I agree but I am partial to cherry wood.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Need to get my hands on a nice veneer for that front that could match the columns as well. Rethinking my column design to go with a stained wood look instead of painted mdf.


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## orion (Sep 18, 2009)

I like your front stage very much. Looks like you will be enjoying it very soon. What will be your first movie?

I bought Avengers and I hope to be watching it in a month. Fingers crossed


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I was thinking the Avengers to break it in, but who knows at this rate by the time it's all finished. Maybe expendables 2 if it takes too long


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> That made me laugh out loud...so true. That was the previous mancave and me...I suspect this next one will be more so :innocent:


Me too :rofl2:

I'm also a lucky guy 'cause my wife is just as audiophile as me, perhaps even more. She even tests new stuff, like cables, tweaks, etc. with me.

Last weekend I saw The Avengers in my HT and I think it's the perfect movie for breaking in your new mancave  On the scale of 1 to 10 I give the soundtrack a 12 :yikes:


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Awesome! I can't wait to try it. Trying to get my hands on the acoustically transparent screen so I don't have to use my old one. The riser carpeting is just about done, so I can start to move in some of my berkline chairs and start getting the equipment setup. :yay:


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Small update. We got the riser carpeted now. 










Went with a brown tone instead of red because it felt warmer, and I think we'll use a wood tone on the front of the stage, so this matched better. Making progress!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looked at this update and got goosebumps - so excited for you to get it done! :bigsmile:


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

The brown carpet looks very nice!..Good choice :T


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I decided to try using the vinyl plank we used on our floors to face the front of the stage. 










I'm liking the look, now to finish carpeting the rest of the stage and get the wire runs terminated.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

Room is looking great love the updated photos


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

You made some good progress! I also like the color scheme. So onto the next task on the todo list


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Been looking at column designs and thinking about what I want to do. I'm not sure I'd like a rectangular column with all the curves I have going on. I saw this nice design over on avs from sandman and think I might give it a go...










Assuming I can find the curved material, what does everyone think?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Curved columns look nice but are a lot of work to build yourself!
If you know anyone in the construction business, you might want to take a look at tube formers..
They come in different size diameters and could be cut in half to form two curved columns..
It would certainly make things a lot easier than fabricating them yourself..


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I like the round tubes also... I would just make sure they are not blocking your side channels (with any column for that matter). You could use Sonotubes for your columns if you want round and fill with dampening material.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I did think of sonotubes. The ones in the picture were made from 2 1/4 circles bonded together. Did seem like a bit of work, Sonotubes would be easier for sure unless I can source wood 1/2 circle curve shapes locally. Will have to research both options. The side surrounds would go inside the column, so I'd need at least a 12" deep column, which means it would need to be 24" wide, which might be a bit too much. My original plan was to do 12"x14" columns but I think curves would be cool if I could pull it off...


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Have to admit - when I first saw Sandman's column design, I really wanted something like that as well. But, I was put off by what it would take to do it... :yikes:


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Welp, sorta stalled right now after that flurry of activity. Heading off to Melbourne AU (will wave to you as I fly by Prof) for a week for a speaking engagement, then I'll get back to it. If anyone know's where to source wooden half circle columns that are hollow, please let me know


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

I'll look out for you!!


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Been doing some research while I fight Jetlag, and came up with a few vendors to source the half rounds from...

These are the once I've been able to find so far that sell curved/bent plywood half rounds:

http://www.aitwood.com/StoreFront.Asp?ItemID=5600&wdesc=Half Cylinders (180 degrees)

http://www.tapeease.com/2rounds.htm

http://columbiaforestproducts.com/Content/Documents/Radius.pdf

I'm going to try to source some of this locally to avoid shipping, but so far it looks pretty doable to do this. I'm thinking of doing 20" diameter columns, built on a 2" frame to fur it out to give me added clearance and allow for future sidewall treatments if I decide I need them. 

Will let you know what I find, but so far it looks pretty reasonable going with the 60" version of the 20" diameter 1/2 rounds.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

DG, the facing on the stage looks great, well done. Nice to see you've found some options for the round columns as well. They'll set you apart from a lot of other projects, and give your room a nice unique feel. There should be some acoustic benefits too (I think) so I'm interested to see how it turns out.


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

Nice plan to have curved columns. Not easy to build, but with a little help from those wood companies...

Whether curved columns have a positive effect on acoustics I don't know. I do know that bendable surfaces act as absorbers, especially filled up with rock/glass wool. So if the material is not sturdy the columns might have an effect.

By the way, my columns are hollow to prevent absorbing too much.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

The curved plywood is 5/8th inch think, so I don't think it's all that flexible. I'd guess it's pretty rigid, but I hear you about stuffing with insulation. I suspect I'm going to need to fully treat this room, as I still have a pretty strong echo. Can't wait to be able to start testing in there


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

We finally were able to get the stage and rest of the floor carpeted yesterday. 










Will be putting up the screen wall fabric today and moving in the rest of the furniture.


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

Good job! Do you hear the difference in reverb? It doesn't sound to dry?


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks! I'm still hearing a lot of echo slap/ringing even with all the furniture in. It's definitely too lively still, I'm thinking I'll need to treat the sidewalls but I'll do some measuring first.

Here are some of the shots of the finished sceenwall and chairs installed:

Here is the screen hung before the fabric was mounted:










Here is the finished screenwall:










Here's a shot of the risers with chairs:









Next steps is to get the back wall covered with fabric and then start to build the columns


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

It looks great already :T One thing though, are the risers high enough for people in the back rows to see the whole picture?


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Each riser step is about 7 inches. I just don't have enough headroom to go higher. The chairs all recline as well, and when down, you can easily see over the next row. I'm also mountain the screen a little higher than normal to compesate.


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> Each riser step is about 7 inches. I just don't have enough headroom to go higher. The chairs all recline as well, and when down, you can easily see over the next row. I'm also mountain the screen a little higher than normal to compesate.


7 inches is about right. It looked to be lower in your pictures. With three rows I would suggest to mount the screen ideally for the second row, i.e. eye height is one 1/3 of the bottom of the screen.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I've read in the past to place you screen so your main seating position lands at 25% up from the bottom off the screen. In this case, I went a little higher, by about 5 inches, so that probably puts me closer to 35%. 
I can see the screen with room to spare from all seats when they are fully upright. Might have to adjust when I get the 2.35 screen, which is a bit larger. I have a 106 inch 16:9, and I'll be upgrading to a 158 inch 2.35:1 AT screen soon which is about 9 inches taller.


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

Looks like you've got it right  Maybe that someone else has an opinion on this.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I think if you have good visibility from all seats then you're in good shape. Some people are happier optimizing for the "prime" location and sacrificing a bit for the other rows, but it just comes down to what you prefer. It sounds like you have room to play with, so maybe when the new screen arrives you can position it temporarily and see how it is for visibility, neck strain, etc.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks HTip and Owen, I'll do that. Sometimes I just get lucky  But it's always better to be lucky than good!


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm about to pull the trigger on the Elite Cinema 235 158" screen with the AcousticPro4k material (R158WH1W-A4k). Anyone heard any issues with these screens? From what I've read, they are getting good reviews from some of the professional reviewers, and the AT fabric seems to have a nice consistent FR across the spectrum over about 1db. Gain is listed at 1.1, which is better than several of the other AT screens.

Here is a link to the screen itself: http://elitescreens.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=35&lang=en

Anyone heard anything else about these screens?


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

I have no experiences with the brand, so I can't comment on that. But I'm worried about the size you have chosen. For this size you need a (very) high light output from your projector. Most commercial projector can only produce enough light up until 3m/118". It's even more of a requirement with 3D.

You also need to take into account the zoom capability and throw range of your projector. What projector do you have in mind?


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

I did a quick calculation with my projector (JVC DLA-HD950/RS25) and it could just work, but only just. I would need maximum zoom (not recommended) and a real batcave with no ambient light whatsoever. With the JVC you would have to mount it at 16'17".

Also the recommended seating distance (17-27') could be an issue, because the projector would be in front of the first row.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I've been looking that the Panasonic 8000, which has 2400 lumens, which would give me 16 lumens with a 1.1 gain screen at around 16 foot lamberts at around 16 feet. I just ordered a flush mount adapter for my Peerless mount as well. 

There are some high output projectors as well, but they might be out of my pricerange. I know the Sim2 Domino Sirio puts out a crazy 6000 lumens. Looking at other high output options, because I'd really would like to be able to use my projection room at the back of the room.


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## zheka (Jun 11, 2010)

dguarnaccia said:


> I'm about to pull the trigger on the Elite Cinema 235 158" screen with the AcousticPro4k material (R158WH1W-A4k). Anyone heard any issues with these screens? From what I've read, they are getting good reviews from some of the professional reviewers, and the AT fabric seems to have a nice consistent FR across the spectrum over about 1db. Gain is listed at 1.1, which is better than several of the other AT screens.
> 
> Here is a link to the screen itself: http://elitescreens.com/index.php?option=com_content&id=35&lang=en
> 
> Anyone heard anything else about these screens?


I suspect you considered Seymour Center Stage XD and Enlightor 4K based screens. what made you prefer AcousticPro4k?


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I did look at them both, but they are 2-3x the cost from what I could see. The Elite lists for 1604 for the 158" and the others were much more expensive. I also like the woven screen rated for 4k, vs the perforated screens, especially for the moire effects. The gain also seems a bit lower on them from what I remembered, they all seemed be below 1 IRCC.

Please tell me though if my impressions are incorrect, its all I could find publicly...


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## zheka (Jun 11, 2010)

dguarnaccia said:


> I did look at them both, but they are 2-3x the cost from what I could see. The Elite lists for 1604 for the 158" and the others were much more expensive. I also like the woven screen rated for 4k, vs the perforated screens, especially for the moire effects. The gain also seems a bit lower on them from what I remembered, they all seemed be below 1 IRCC.
> 
> Please tell me though if my impressions are incorrect, its all I could find publicly...


I do not really know enough, that's why I was asking 

AFAIK:

Center Stage XD fixed frame screens seem to be in the same is price range (160" diagonal is $1570). the gain is 1.2 . They sell Center Stage XD fabric at $22/yd for DYI - that's the option I am strongly leaning towards. 
http://seymourav.com/store.asp

EN4K is much finer weave, almost no visible texture. but it's not as bright (1.0 gain) and is much (3-4 times) more expensive. there is no option to buy just the fabric, at least not in the USA.

regarding 4K rating, this article has some 1080 vs 4k screenshots over 150" Seymour Center Stage XD screen.

http://www.geckohomecinema.com/1080p-vs-4k.html


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> I've been looking that the Panasonic 8000, which has 2400 lumens, which would give me 16 lumens with a 1.1 gain screen at around 16 foot lamberts at around 16 feet. I just ordered a flush mount adapter for my Peerless mount as well.


Those are nice values. I did the same calculation with the Panasonic and with a 1.1 gain the maximum throw range would be 18'4". With a 1.3 gain however you could go as far as 20'. You can play around with the variables yourself at http://www.projectorcentral.com/Panasonic-PT-AE8000-projection-calculator-pro.htm



> There are some high output projectors as well, but they might be out of my pricerange. I know the Sim2 Domino Sirio puts out a crazy 6000 lumens. Looking at other high output options, because I'd really would like to be able to use my projection room at the back of the room.


6000 lumens is certainly crazy. That is way too much for a home theater  You would need a 0.7 gain screen and mount the projector at over 50' :rubeyes:


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

zheka said:


> I do not really know enough, that's why I was asking
> 
> AFAIK:
> 
> ...


Good stuff! Thanks for sharing! I'm mostly going for the 4k material to furture proof. I'll have t read all the articles, but do you see any advantage of one of the over so far?


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## zheka (Jun 11, 2010)

dguarnaccia said:


> Good stuff! Thanks for sharing! I'm mostly going for the 4k material to furture proof. I'll have t read all the articles, but do you see any advantage of one of the over so far?


My understanding the finer weave on EN4K is mainly important for close seating (less then 10 feet from the screen). As far as the actual 4K material reproduction, CenterStage XD seems very capable.

to me the main attraction of the CenterStage XD is DIY. I am retrofitting frame from my 120" Visual Apex screen with this fabric for under $300.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

I tested both the Centre Stage XD and the 4K material before making my screen..I much preferred the brightness and the colours of the image of the XD over the 4K..
I sit 9'6" from an 8'6" wide screen and I don't see any weave in the material..


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## zheka (Jun 11, 2010)

Prof. said:


> I tested both the Centre Stage XD and the 4K material before making my screen..I much preferred the brightness and the colours of the image of the XD over the 4K..
> I sit 9'6" from an 8'6" wide screen and I don't see any weave in the material..


I also find high contrast,higher gain white preferable, at least in my fairly well light controlled room. I currently use silver moleskin fabric and crave for whiter whites.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I've been playing with the projector central calculators, and the difference between 1.1 and 1.2 gain is only one lumen. My room is pitch black when the lights are off, so I think I'll be ok. I really don't want to deal with DIY given everything else I need to do so I'm going to give the Elite a shot and I'll report back my experiences. I do think the XD could have worked as well but it's still quite a bit more expensive, and I'd like to try a cloth based screen instead of a perforated one.

We'll see how it turns out. Thanks for the advice and feedback fellas


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> I've been playing with the projector central calculators, and the difference between 1.1 and 1.2 gain is only one lumen. My room is pitch black when the lights are off, so I think I'll be ok. I really don't want to deal with DIY given everything else I need to do so I'm going to give the Elite a shot and I'll report back my experiences. I do think the XD could have worked as well but it's still quite a bit more expensive, and I'd like to try a cloth based screen instead of a perforated one.
> 
> We'll see how it turns out. Thanks for the advice and feedback fellas


And here I was hoping you would give the Supernova a go and let us know what you thought! :rofl2:

I am not sure if you have done so or not, but I would get Mech's feedback on the Elite - I am pretty certain he has the Cinegray screen from them.

Also, DIY is not nearly as bad as I thought it would be. It took me less than a day to construct the screen - and that is with making my own "cleats". The only thing I have left to do is paint it and I really dont have a lot of time / money invested at this point.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Oh, did he have a bad experience? I'll PM him. My current screen is an EZframe Cinewhite 106" that I've had for years, and it's held up ok, but to be honest, I haven't compared a ton of screens. 

Been working on the Columns this weekend. This is the plans my contractor came up with and we've been putting them together this weekend. Love what he came up with...feels very scifi and a little retro










Need to get them painted and put the surface on the side panels, but it's comming along nicely.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Nice looking columns!! :T

And, I am pretty certain that Mech really likes his Elite......


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Yep, he said he has nothing but good things to say about their products.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

Very nice! :T


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

Nice columns. They certainly are something unique :T

Good to know that you played around with the calculator. Did you come to conclusion about the mounting position? Because that is where you might have a problem.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

I did play with it a bit. Right now, it's putting me at around 19'10" for the 156" diagonal screen giving me 11 lumens on my old PJ (HC1500). Once I get the new one, it'll bring my back up to 16 lumens assuming I go with the panny 8k. It'll be a while though before I can buy the projector, need to save up a bit more, so maybe I can find a nice high output pj to get me in the mid 20's. That would be ideal.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Screen is on the way! Should be here this week, looking forward to setting that bad boy up. I've been slowly sanding and painting the column sides. I've picked a deep dark red and I'm going to lay the flooring in the wedge shapes to match the stage. Here are a few shots of the work in progress:

One set with the flooring laid in the channels before painting...










Painting in progress, the wife is a fine painter 










One set painted, the flooring color looks good with the red










Once they are all painted, going to use spray adhesive to attached the flooring and then we're ready to mount.


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## BD55 (Oct 18, 2011)

Those look really cool; they definitely have a art deco vibe that is very classic and will go well with your build. Nice work! :T


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

First couple of columns finished. I think it looks pretty good so far. Gotta do a little more painting then I'll get these bad boys hung on the wall...


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Those look REALLY nice mate - great work!! :T


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## Wardsweb (Apr 2, 2010)

Wow very nice indeed. I love the art deco touch.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks guys. I was originally going to go straight down on the side pieces, but my contractor threw out the idea of tapering them in both dimentions, and I liked it. Feels very retro scifi to me, and art deco is a great way to describe it.


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

Beautiful work my friend.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

That looks great! Very well done..:T


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Funny how these updates come in bursts. Made a ton of progress yesterday. Finished the columns, got them hung, put the new screen together and mounted my old projector (Mits HC1500). 

First off, my god that screen is big! It's literally 12 feet wide. I mounted the projector at 18 feet, so I don't have full coverage in cinemascope, (a little black around the edges) but that's just to get me by till I can afford the new PJ. Even if this is only 11 FL, it's plenty bright in that room. Here area few shots:

Seemed only appropriate that I fire up the PJ and Mancaves was on...










Shot of the back of the room:










I'm largely done to start using it now. Need to start calibrating the room, and measuring and put some base molding. Once I know how the room response is, I'll start working on room treatments.



Couple of Panoramics for fun:


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## Picture_Shooter (Dec 23, 2007)

Awesome room!! Great job and craftmanship right there!!


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks! Now that the room is put together for the most part, it's time to start measuring and tweaking. I also need to do something about my remote. I have an old Harmony 890, and I think it's days are numbered. This is my second one, and it's getting twitchy. I really haven't seen a lot of new remotes come on the market. Ideally, I'd like one that can do Zwave as well so I can control my lights with it if possible. 

One option I've considered is getting a tablet and making it a touchscreen remote using Wifi-> IR bridge. Anyone have any good success with those?

Any recommendations on controlling lights with remotes?


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

The theatre looks great!..Well done! :T


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## Dale Rasco (Apr 11, 2009)

I use a lutron with my harmony one remote if that helps.


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## JQueen (Jan 11, 2012)

The room look awesome Congrats and enjoy


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Dale Rasco said:


> I use a lutron with my harmony one remote if that helps.


Hey Dale, what did you need to do to get them to work together? Was it all Zwave? Did you have some bridge of some kind? What gear did you use?


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

You really made good progress the last couple of weeks :T And the result is a great looking home theater!

And your screen is awesome :rubeyes:

BTW: I use a Pronto (actually a Marantz ) with RF-switches by KlikOnKlikOff. I don't know if they're available in the US though.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Howdy folks, 



It's been a while since I posted, with the holiday season and all but I wanted to share some of the testing results I was able to capture with my new OmniMic kit that Santa brought me. I think I've been able to finally dial in the last bits of my system, and this is probaby as good as it will get until I can add another pair of subs



Here is the FR sweep I snapped once I was able to tweak with some realtime feedback:














I wound up turning off Audessy, and bumping up the PEQ on the Dayton SA1000's by 6 @ 18hz full Q to give me a bit more lift on the bottom end. 



The results are profound. An even deeper punch to the gut on bass scenes that you feel in your bones. I watched Dark Knight Rises and it was amazing. 



Now, because we are who we are, I want more  So the question to the group is this: How can I get flat down to 5hz? I'm getting some room gain, but not a ton, which is surprising because this is a concrete basement, and 2 of the 4 walls are concrete, as is the floor. What sort of tools can you use to help get flat down that low? I know it's a silly goal, but it's kinda my brass ring I'm going to try to stretch for. Any suggestions appreciated.



Last question for everyone. Here is the bass decay chart the Omnimic took for the room. 














I don't know enough to know if this is decent or if I need more trapping in the room. Does anyone have an idea? I was considering putting 2 inches of OC705 from the floor to 42 inches on the sidewalls, but I don't want to overdampen the room so I'm trying to figure out what good looks like. 


Overall, I've really been enjoying my room, and havent' wanted to do too much until I got some better measurments. If there are other measurements I should be taking, let me know what they are and I'll get them. 

Thanks!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Hopefully someone will correct me if I am wrong, but putting 2" of OC705 will not help you down that low. To be able to tame frequencies in that lower area, you really need thicker trapping such as corner traps.

You could EQ, but I do not know how much it will help below 20 Hz. I seem to recall Wayne talking about this in his House Curve threads.....


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Well, I guess that's as good as I'm going to get then. I already have superchunk bass traps in all 4 corners which are 24"x24"x37" and the front wall is treated with 4 inches of 7lb rockwool with a 2 inch airgap. I can't imagine anything else is going to help then.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If you have not already, I highly recommend a read of Wayne's House Curve threads. Like I said, I thought he said EQing below 20 Hz did not work well, but I could be remembering wrong. Plus, there are some great suggestions on creating a curve and using EQ.


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## zheka (Jun 11, 2010)

I think you bass decay chart looks good. Absorption will not help with that peak in 30 hz. 

Did you build hush box for your projector or bought one?


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## HTip (Oct 10, 2011)

I think you can be happy with both charts. Your house curve looks good, but you also need to listen to a frequency sweep to be determine if it all sounds even. Like Joe said, Wayne's article on house curves is the one to read.

If I look at your bass decay, your room could be overdamped already below 500Hz. And to reduce that 30Hz peak you need some serious bass traps. You could look at the products of RPG, specifically the Modex line. A friend of mine build base traps (slat absorbers) 3' deep and 7' high to absorb the 20-30Hz range. I used a combination of panel and slat absorbers and a RPG Modex Broadband.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks guys, I will definitely read up on house curves. I'm willing to add a few more subs and beefier amps if needed. I'll look into those tuned traps as well. There is also the possibility of turning my risers into a helmholtz resonator as well. I made sure it was fully insulated, I just need to figure out what side ports I need for that frequency range. 

I need to do a few more measurements above 500 hz. I notes I was getting some weird ringing above 15k hz. Not sure why though. Need to do more research on that. 

I haven't built a hushbox for the projector yet. I'm still waiting on what new projector I'm going to buy so I know what the final location will be. I'm secretly holding out for the next generation of 4k projectors. I'd love to be able to buy that nice Red 4k Laser projector when they release it. Ideally, I'd locate it in the back of the room (assuming it has the light output for that distance) then I'd build the hushbox there as a mini projector room since there is a false rear wall. Otherwise, I'll just build one on the ceiling.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

After reading several of Wayne's house curve threads, it seems like what I need to do is to pull down down some of the midbass below the bass in the 5-25 region, and then do a shelved filter from there. What sort of EQ is everyone using to do this? I've been eyeballing the minidsp for my subs, but that won't take care of the FR for the rest of the frequency range. 

I'd love to hear what everyone is using to do this.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> After reading several of Wayne's house curve threads, it seems like what I need to do is to pull down down some of the midbass below the bass in the 5-25 region, and then do a shelved filter from there. What sort of EQ is everyone using to do this? I've been eyeballing the minidsp for my subs, but that won't take care of the FR for the rest of the frequency range.
> 
> I'd love to hear what everyone is using to do this.


I picked up a couple of used Yamaha YDP 2206s a while ago based on advice from Tony. I was originally planning on using one for the subs and the other for the mains, but now that I am going to be running 3 subs (and possibly adding a 4th later), I need to rethink that. I may end up going with the minidsp for the subs and using one of the 2206s for the mains leaving me with a spare 2206.....


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Nice, does the 2206 allow you to create a shelf filter? I just ordered a minidsp 2x4 so I'll start to play with that for now. I wonder if I can use the PEQ inside my receiver to pull down the signal, gonna have to play with that.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

dguarnaccia said:


> Nice, does the 2206 allow you to create a shelf filter? I just ordered a minidsp 2x4 so I'll start to play with that for now. I wonder if I can use the PEQ inside my receiver to pull down the signal, gonna have to play with that.


I have not played with it too much yet, but I think that it does.


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

Ok, my MiniDSP finally arrived, and I had a chance to set it up. After doing a few sweeps, I ran the EQ optimizer in Omnimic and imported the biquads. Here's what the result is:











Good news, I'm mostly flat to 8hz. Bad news, I got a nasty null now around 22 hz. Baffling really since I didn't have any issues before. I'm wondering if it's a weird interaction with the LT circuit on the Amp dayton, or the PEQ. Going to have to keep fiddling with it.

I ran a FR waterfall too to see what my decay looks like. I think it's decent, other than some weird stuff up high. 










It could be my metal sconces vibrating. Need to caulk them to see if that's causing it. 

Getting closer. Wonder if adding another 2 subs having them in all 4 corners will be me get flat to 5hz


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## dguarnaccia (Jul 17, 2008)

After a little more fiddling with Omnimic and Minidsp, I think I've nailed it.










+-5 from 8hz to 160. I'll take that. Sounds crazy good too.

Definitely some deeper stuff in Master and Commander. The theater chairs shudder like I've got butt kickers in them. Amazing! I have to say Audessy is worthless. I wound up turning it off. I didn't seem to help much at all. Perhaps I need to upgrade my receive and try some of the other room correction technologies.


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## slansing (Jun 5, 2013)

Looks great! I'm about to start a build myself, this has been helpful.


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