# H/T rewire for more power



## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

I have decided to rewire my L-room h/t. I have a 15 amp breaker at present, and need a bigger one. My theater is 70 ft away from the breaker box. I have a 2200 watt sub amp 110x7 receiver, computer uses a 650 watt power supply then my monitor is going to be eventually replaced with a projector. I am not sure of total current draw, but I tripped the breaker once, and the measured voltage is dropping during loud scenes in movies. I might even add another sub amp someday after I soundproof the theater (neighbors call the police). I was thinking about running 8/2 romex and a 40 amp new breaker, or 10/2 romex and a 30 amp breaker. Anyone with any advice please share. Thanx


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If you do run higher amperage breakers you must also use the proper plugs on the cords and wall plugins. You can not simply run a 30 or 40 amp circuit to a normal 15amp plugin that would be very dangerous if someone used that circuit for a vacuum or other household device as it would offere no protection against fire or short. You also not use your gear on a higher rated circuit if its not rated for more than 15 or 20 amps.
Run 12/2 or 12/3 to give you a better size wire for the long distance and leave the breakers alone at 15 or 20 amp.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

I planned on changing receptacles too. The proplem is that half the house is run from this circuit it seems. B4 Ieven turn on my equipment the voltage is usually 116, turn onb equipment annd it drops to 114. Thats just at idle. I have measured sags as low as 103 with it at a relatively high volume. I have never measured it with my h/t at full tilt though. My guess would be momentary drops below 100 b4 circuit trips. I dont want my equipment to have a short life a a result of low voltage and under powering.


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## ironglen (Mar 4, 2009)

Tony's advice is good. I did exactly that for my ht gear and I have a whole rack of gear on the dedicated circuit. It's easy to do, but run both wires at the same time. If you've got space in your breaker box, just run two or three new boxes for your setup rather than one high current outlet, imo.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

Ok, so better to run 2 20 amp breakers and 2 lines to sep new receptacles that to run a single 40 amp one. I already have the 10/2 though, can I still use that?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You can safely get away with 12 awg wire without any voltage drop unless your problem is at the panel not the circuit its self have you measured the voltage at the panel? It is quite common in older areas and rural areas to have poor voltage from the poll at the transformer because of old equipment and to many costumers. Putting a 30 or 40 amp breaker will not fix the problem.
at 70 ft from the panel you should not have any issues with 12 awg with two circuits.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

I dont know how to measure it at the panel. I will figure it out though. When all the lights around the house are off in the daytime etc... I see a solid 120V in my l-room. But turn on a few lights kids tv etc....I end up with 115. I think the main thing is just to get my equipment on its own circuit. Maybe a reg 15 amp or 2 will even do when the rest of the house isnt competing for the same power from sme breaker. This house is wired up all weird.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Changing out breakers and measuring at the panel is not for the average person to do. I do not recommend it unless your a very electrical minded person and understand the dangers of doing so.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Changing out breakers and measuring at the panel is not for the average person to do. I do not recommend it unless your a very electrical minded person and understand the dangers of doing so.


I have done lots of wiring , with the exeption of at the box. I have never replaced a circuit breaker. Do they install from the front or the back? I assume they snap in from the front, with wires running down them then out. I do not have any extra spaces in the breaker in the closet, but have several spaces in the main box outside. It looks like you bend in the metal to place the breaker in, after you run the new wire and conduit up to the bottom? Dont worry I am not going to kill myself, I am going to turn off the main 1st and take all precautions.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

It depends on the brand of panel some breakers simply snap into place between two aluminum clips some have a screw that you tighten directly down on the main buss bar. The cover needs to come off the front of the panel as that also holds the breakers in place.
The wires come in from the side of the panel through a knockout that you place a round holder into and thread a nut onto to hold it in place.
Again if you do this without an inspection you void all insurance if a fire happens because of doing it the wrong way.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

I am going to take picsof the box and post em up, as I dont see how the front comes off. But I will do that 2morrow as I have a dinner party to go to now. Thanx for all the replies from all so far.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

It sounds like you just have to much going on one circuit. Most likely everything in your room is going off one 15 amp circuit and that is at it's limit. All you probably need to do is run one extra dedicated circuit for the sub amp to solve the problem at hand but you might want to run two to future proof things. You might as well do a 20 amp circuit unless cost is a factor. 12 gauge wire is quite a bit more than 14 gauge. 

Make sure it's 3 wire as non-grounded circuits are against code in residential wiring. If you go with a sub panel in the theater room then you till need to ground it, either from the main box or a separate earthed wire on the sub panel. 

A sub panel is not really necessary and is not going to provide any more isolation that running a new circuit from the main. They are just used to either make distribution in a distant room cheaper and/or easier (less wires to run from the main) or if the main breaker is running out of space or if you need a breaker to shut off power to a bunch of circuits at once.

One thing to mention is that the power ratings listed on the power supplies won't be the actual power draw from the plug. A 650W computer power supply will typically not draw even half that and unless under full load will most likely be a fifth or less of that 650W. I had a watt meter hooked up to different things around my house and my 980W Denon receiver was only drawing 160W cranked up to -10dB on the dial and an intense scene in a movie. 

If you were to go off of the rated wattage of each power supply you should be blowing breakers a lot more. 1800W is the max for a 15 amp breaker at 120 volts. A properly designed circuit should draw well under that though.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

it also depends on how old the wiring and panel is in the house, If you only have less than a 100amp service your whole house may be under powered and that upgrade process is costly. Swapping out breakers and wiring form the panel to the room will not fix the issues.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

My main breaker is 125 amps if that helps


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

125amp is fine, I agree with MatrixDweller just run another dedicated 15 or 20amp circuit using 12/2 and youll be fine. Dont use the 8awg wire you bought as they wont fit properly under the lugs of the plugs or the breaker.


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

Post a picture. Typically, unless you have a REALLY old panel, the breakers just pop in and out. Cut the main breaker switch and pop the new circuit in. No need to go over 12 gauge wire. 12 gauge is tough enough to work with. Fishing 10 gauge...ugghh.

One dedicated circuit and a 20 amp breaker should power everything. two would be better but do you have two open slots on your panel...


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

I could not take a better pic as it is raining presently. Hope this helps. I hope it is a simple installation.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I would not come out of this panel as its your main distribution panel. You need to take the feed from the sub panel inside the house.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

heres the sub box








It would seem easier howerer to just tap into the outside mainboxes connection to the shed. Just go into te shed and splice it and run conduit to the theater. That breaker never gets used unless I am doing work with my tools.


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

n3evermind, I didn't see that second picture for some reason.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

bbieger said:


> n3evermind, I didn't see that second picture for some reason.


I had just added that pic as you were posting...lol


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

bassman_soundking said:


> It would seem easier howerer to just tap into the outside mainboxes connection to the shed. Just go into te shed and splice it and run conduit to the theater. That breaker never gets used unless I am doing work with my tools.


Is the shed a 20amp? Just remember that you need outside rated wire. Your sub panel does have room for two more circuits.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

tonyvdb said:


> Is the shed a 20amp? Just remember that you need outside rated wire. Your sub panel does have room for two more circuits.


the shed is 20 amp. Is outside rated wire more expensive?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

bassman_soundking said:


> the shed is 20 amp. Is outside rated wire more expensive?


A bit more as it has to withstand the elements.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

The plan is to run this wire in pvc or some conduit outside the house, but under bolted to the sub floor. I have tongue and groove type plywood walls inside and not sheetrock. So, running wire through the walls would be insane. This is a mfg home (mobile home) so there is no attic to run wires, and no basement. I hope this is an acceptable way to do this?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Codes vary from place to place but I think it will be fine. Just dont make the splice inside the main panel as it must be after the power leaves the panel.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

I was going to splice from where it goes into the shed or from inside the shed, which ever seems better when I get going on it.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

just make sure the splice is in an approved electrical box using good quality marretts.


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

thanx for the help every one. So many more things to decide still. Windows (delete or replace) walls (where to put them), projector or bigger monitor etc....


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

bassman_soundking said:


> The plan is to run this wire in pvc or some conduit outside the house, but under bolted to the sub floor. I have tongue and groove type plywood walls inside and not sheetrock. So, running wire through the walls would be insane. This is a mfg home (mobile home) so there is no attic to run wires, and no basement. I hope this is an acceptable way to do this?


 I can’t imagine trying to fish romex through conduit. I’d suggest romex rated for direct burial. It should be fine to run the wire under the house, but check your local codes.

I’d suggest, if you go with two circuits to put them both on the same phase. Also, while you’re at it, upgrade to commercial or industrial specification grade outlets, rather than the cheap 50¢ builder’s grade stuff.




bassman_soundking said:


> I have done lots of wiring , with the exeption of at the box. I have never replaced a circuit breaker.


If you’re a handy DIY kind of guy you should be able to figure out the breaker panel once the cover panel is removed. If it doesn’t make sense to you, then you could run all the wiring and then call in an electrician for the connection to the breaker panel.

Regards,
Wayne


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I can’t imagine trying to fish romex through conduit. I’d suggest romex rated for direct burial. It should be fine to run the wire under the house, but check your local codes.
> 
> I’d suggest, if you go with two circuits to put them both on the same phase. Also, while you’re at it, upgrade to commercial or industrial specification grade outlets, rather than the cheap 50¢ builder’s grade stuff.
> 
> ...


Thanx Wayne for the help. I was thinking more along the lines of small diamater abs or pvc to run it in as opposed to conduit.


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

Direct burial would be easier but I would still run it through conduit where it could be hit by shovels or whatever in the future (like a future flower bed). Fishing is not hard with a fishing tape and some lube for the wire harbor freight sells a tape reel that is just fine and less than half the price than those found in the big box stores. Tale the 
money you save and buy a quality pair of wire cutters/strippers. I can't tell you how much I love my pair of klein strippers with the single curves handle. They are a joy to use, especially when oh have lots of wiring to do. Night and day versus the cheap pos pairs. 

In regards to windows; think about resale value. I installed an egress window in the far end of my ht room. Lots of future home buyers may want to use my ht room as a bedroom and a legal bedroom needs two exits and a closet. So for a $200 window and a day of work, I made my 3 bedroom home a 4 bedroom home 
_Posted via Mobile Device_


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

I will probably replace windows with smaller windows (dual pane) or just seal it off in a way that can be easily reversed.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

The problem with burying wire is that you introduce the potential for someone in the future to cut the wire while digging. Buried cable that carries high voltage would need a permit and any site drawings would have to be amended to show the buried cable. Outside rated cable can be up to twice as expensive as indoor wire also.

I don't see what the problem is on running an extra 1 or two circuits off the sub panel. There are four spares and you can cut it's power from the main box to work on it safely. There should be a separate shut off at the sub panel though. Just figure if you had shut off the power to the sub panel to work on it and some kid came along and turned it back on while you had your hand in there.

You'll need to run the wire in conduit in the crawlspace under your home. 12 gauge Romex is really stiff and will pull through conduit nicely. Wire lube helps but might not be necessary. I believe you do need the conduit since under your home is unheated and technically outside (animals could munch on it). The conduit can also prevent someone from putting a nail in the floor and hitting the wire.

Is your HT in your shed?


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## bbieger (Sep 15, 2009)

bassman_soundking said:


> I will probably replace windows with smaller windows (dual pane) or just seal it off in a way that can be easily reversed.



A nice double pane window really isn't that expensive.  I built the egress and replaced an existing 2 x 2 window. Then latter drywalled in said 2 x 2 window cause it was right where I want to put my false wall.  

But hey, at least its weatherproof now. I think the 2x2 window was $60?


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

the windows I have a problem with are occupying over 50% of a wall that is 24' long an 10' high in the middle. It just seems so much cheaper and easier to cover them I am talking about panes that each measure 64"60" and there are top ones that are triangle that are above those without more than3" gap all the way to ceiling. I already got rid of the skylight when I re-roofed. On the wall that would be the back of the theater there is another window that measures 70"x57". This really is a glass house!


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## bassman_soundking (Nov 4, 2008)

would small dual pane windows be at risk for breaking? As it is currently my llt's almost break my kitchen window and my side L-room windows (they go flap flap)with frequencies between 18 hz and the mid 20's. When I make my room smaller I worry the extra energy being confined will be even more stress on windows. This house has original windows from 1973...lol


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