# Which Subs??? Submersive or ULS Quads



## breadysmith (Jun 23, 2009)

So, the basement home theater is finally coming to fruition, and now I have a subwoofer question. I thought I would rely on the expertise of the forum. The finished room is 10'6" by 24' by 8' so just over 2000 cubic feet, I intend to have bass traps in all four corners from floor to ceiling. I'm looking at doing two seaton submersives or doing the HSU ULS-15 Quad drive with one in every corner, can't do mid-points because of a door. Not really considering a DIY sub, speaker set up is Paradigm Studio 100 system in a 7 channel configuration, Pioneer SC-09 receiver. I'm not opposed to adding an EQ, considered the SVS AS-EQ1 I've read a lot about it and people seem to be getting great results, but I'm hoping with room treatment and and my sub choice I'd be able to keep the room issues minimal, so EQ'ing might not be as necessary. So....my sub budget is around 4k and I'm not a huge DIY guy, so based on my experience across many forums these subs appear to be very good bang for the buck. Now I just need help making the decision, 2 versus 4. Any thoughts???


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Placing a sub in each corner is a good idea. THX (or Dolby, I can't remember which) suggests putting the subs in the middle of each wall. That way you will eliminate most nodes. It will take more power to drive the subs, but, you will have better balance of the bass. 
Personally, I am of the opinion that SVSound's PB-12 Ultra is the way to go, but, you will have to make that decision. Have fun. Dennis


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

by the way, welcome to the Shack!


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## counsil (Mar 1, 2009)

I have heard a lot of good things about both subs. I personally don't have any experience with either sub. From all that I have read, I would probably pick the ULS Quads. You could always stack them... two in each front corner like I do my quad PB13 Ultras. Then you could easily integrate an SVS ES-EQ1 into your system, which I totally recommend. I have an Audyssey Sub Equalizer and I calibrate my Denon with Audyssey Pro myself. I really like what both do for my system.

As to why I suggest the Quads to the SubMersives... I know the SubMersive is EQ'd to be flat down to ~10Hz, but I doubt it's ability to keep play very loud in that range. Especially when folks start talking about their SubMersives being flat to 5Hz!!! I ULS's on the other hand, from what I have read, would probably be a little stronger down low. You would also have endless placement options.

Good Luck. I am sure you will be happy with whatever you choose.

doug.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

I much prefer the "center of each wall" (THX recommended, along with others) to "one in each corner"... placing one in each corner can have the effect of reinforcing every mode, whereas center of each wall can allow some subs to fill in where other subs dip, notwithstanding the power needs Dr. Doan mentions... with 4 ULS's I wouldn't think power would be much of an issue.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

On multiple subs, check out Welti and Toole: http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurComp...ages/WhitePapers.aspx?CategoryID=White papers


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

breadysmith said:


> So, the basement home theater is finally coming to fruition, and now I have a subwoofer question. I thought I would rely on the expertise of the forum. The finished room is 10'6" by 24' by 8' so just over 2000 cubic feet, I intend to have bass traps in all four corners from floor to ceiling. I'm looking at doing two seaton submersives or doing the HSU ULS-15 Quad drive with one in every corner, can't do mid-points because of a door. Not really considering a DIY sub, speaker set up is Paradigm Studio 100 system in a 7 channel configuration, Pioneer SC-09 receiver. I'm not opposed to adding an EQ, considered the SVS AS-EQ1 I've read a lot about it and people seem to be getting great results, but I'm hoping with room treatment and and my sub choice I'd be able to keep the room issues minimal, so EQ'ing might not be as necessary. So....my sub budget is around 4k and I'm not a huge DIY guy, so based on my experience across many forums these subs appear to be very good bang for the buck. Now I just need help making the decision, 2 versus 4. Any thoughts???


I was in the same situation last summer - debating between the Submersive and the Hsu Quad. I had also looked into Epik and eD. I was upgrading from a single Velodyne FSR-18.

I ended up with the Quad ULS-15 and man, am I glad I did! You can read my review (REW plots and all) here and on Hsu's forum.

My room is almost the same size as yours (2050 cu ft). In that size room, I assure you that you will not want for more SPL. I tried several times to find their limits, but gave up and ended up with serious ear pain. It is very easy to do ear damage with these things.

I set mine up across the 12 foot wall of the room. This allows coupling between each pair up to 1/4th wavelength or so. By the way, I asked Pete Hsu about stacking - he does not recommend it due to possible interfering bounce from the floor. This is not unique to the Hsus and Pete said it can be minimized by crossing over below 80Hz.

As far as extension, mine are going strong at 10Hz (see the plots, made with a calibrated mic). As for "speed" (bass transient response) and punch, they are superior to the servo Velodyne. No audible distortion up to the max I am willing to listen to.

I don't use the wireless link - I had the sub cable at that wall anyway. I did try it and it worked fine. I can see that it would be very helpful when moving the subs around to find best positions.

If you go with the ULS-15s, pay the extra $s and get one of the luxury finishes. Mine are in walnut and are really pretty; the finish is so smooth you will think it is plastic, but it is not.

By the way, Hsu usually ships the day after placing the order - you should get them within 6-7 days even cross country. I don't know about now, but last summer there was about a month lead time on the Submersive.


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## pbc (Sep 3, 2007)

Between those two options, I'd have to agree with Quad ULS-15's. I'd imagine dual ULS-15's would be somewhat similar to a single Submersive and Quads should outperform it. Plus having multiple subs (4 ... sweet!) would likely smooth out your response quite nicely so that the MCACC in your Pio would hopefully be able to tame any remaining peaks and valleys!

Steve


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

Having more than 2 subs is a waste of money IMO. While four subs is slightly better 2 subs with one midpoint on the front wall and one midpoint on the back will net you almost as good of results. 4 subs in the corners are as good as 4 midwall ones and if you're force to do corner placement it is the way to get the best results.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

lsiberian said:


> Having more than 2 subs is a waste of money IMO. While four subs is slightly better 2 subs with one midpoint on the front wall and one midpoint on the back will net you almost as good of results. 4 subs in the corners are as good as 4 midwall ones and if you're force to do corner placement it is the way to get the best results.


It all depends on what output you want. Per Pete Hsu, 4 will generate the same SPL with 1/16th the amp power and distortion of one. My goal was extended LFE and output to match my highly efficient mains. The Quads did the job.


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## Poochymama (Jun 10, 2010)

counsil said:


> As to why I suggest the Quads to the SubMersives... I know the SubMersive is EQ'd to be flat down to ~10Hz, but I doubt it's ability to keep play very loud in that range. Especially when folks start talking about their SubMersives being flat to 5Hz!!! I ULS's on the other hand, from what I have read, would probably be a little stronger down low. You would also have endless placement options.
> 
> Good Luck. I am sure you will be happy with whatever you choose.
> 
> doug.


Actually the submersive is pretty much an all around better subwoofer than the ULS 15. It has quite a bit more output through most of the frequency range as well as more extension. As for whether 2 Submersives would be better than Quad ULS 15, I really don't know, I bet it would be close though.

How do I know? Well, I own both. The Submersive gives me quite a bit more extension(about 8hz in my room), and 3-5 more spl from 20 -80hz. If I had to vote I would say the quads would win just because you would get more even coverage and possibly more output up high. I've always been a fan of multiple subwoofers.

Sorry if I misunderstood your post. I thought you were trying to say that because the submersive goes lower that the ULS-15 would go louder which would be false. If you were just saying that two ULS 15's might go louder than the submersive, that might be true, I don't really know. But one on one, it's no contest, the Submersive kills the ULS 15 in both output and extension.


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