# Recommendations for Room Treatment Needed-Please Help!



## Guest (Jan 5, 2008)

Hi guys. I started researching room treatment about a year ago. I am convinced that there is much to be gained through effective room treatment, however, I find the task to be daunting! I am looking for advice from the kind people on this forum who have experience in this area. 

The problems that I can tell you I have with my room are: 1. LFE is inadequate at any seating position in the room, and 2. slap-back echo.

Measuring SPL with a Radio Shack meter reveals that the LFE is concentrated in the top corners of my den, and also present in the foyer. It is virtually nil at the main seating position. My equipment cannot be to blame; I should be blown out of my seat by my SVS 20-39 PC Plus powered subwoofer! So far, I have purchased two GIK TriTraps and placed them on the floor in the front corners of my room. Honestly, I haven't noticed much of a difference. Of course, with 10' ceilings, there is still 6' of untreated space above the TriTraps. 

I know this was just a start, and now I am in need of good advice. What to do next? Of course this is my den, not a dedicated HT room. I am interested in a balance between aesthetics and functionality. Price, of course, is a consideration as well. 

I am attaching a sketch of my room in it's current configuration. I tried to include as much information as I could. Only thing I forgot to specify is that the floor is hard wood. Please let me know if you need additional info. I will be glad to post digital photos, if that will help. 

Any and all advice will be greatfully received! Thanks for reading my post and Happy New Year!


----------



## yourgrandma (Oct 29, 2007)

Welcome to the Shack, roakes!

Bryan from GIK will surely tell you when he replys that it's practically impossible to over trap a room. You probably just need more traps. Floor to ceiling, all corners and even on the ceiling-wall corners.


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

2 traps in a room that size will make a little difference but realistically, you do need more. That's a large volume room. Add in non-symmetric seating, non-symmetric setup of AV, sub basically in a corner, setup in a corner, room open to a foyer and a dining room (lots of extra space) and we have a situation that is harder to control and a setup that is accentuating the problems by maximally exciting the modes.

I certainly understand that room functionality is an overriding consideration in shared living spaces. Just be realistic that you're going to need a certain amount of control to be able to make a dent in the room's issues. No, we don't need to put panels in every available corner (though it wouldn't hurt anything).

Bryan


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

Any chance of being able to try different sub placements? Try placing the sub between the love seat and the chair/ottoman, against the wall. I'm willing to bet that will solve the lack of LFE at the main seating position.


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2008)

Thank you Bryan for getting back to me. Yes, it seems that the room will be complicated to "tame", which is why I am so out of my league here! I have read a good deal on room acoustics and treatment in recent months and now feel rather overwhelmed. Today, I took pictures of the room in hopes that they will assist. As you can see, there is a motion detector mounted in the upper right rear corner of the room (behind the main seating area) in the way of a possible treatment area. I am open to suggestions regarding panels, traps, draperies (which would be great to reduce daytime glare), and even wire management! Except for furnishings and one picture, the room is bare and very bright. HT is fatiguing to listen to. Although I am used to it, I can only _imagine_ how much better it could sound if I had rich, tight bass and little or no reflections in my listening position. How sweet.

Any and all advice is very much appreciated! Even a step-wise approach starting with the most important thing to address first would be great. Please let me know if any additional info is needed. Thank you in advance.
:wits-end:


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2008)

Hi Mike! I just posted my reply to Bryan and then noticed your question. I would need a longer cable for my sub than I currently have in order to move it that far away without leaving it on the floor, but I like the idea. Should have tried that myself long ago! I am ready to try anything that the budget will allow. Thanks for your reply. I will try moving it if the cable is long enough, just to see if that makes a difference. If so, a new cable may be in order! Thanks again!


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Some starters:

- Bigger rug
- Get the sub out of the corner
- Curtains instead of or in addition to the blinds on the windows
- Another pair of Tri Traps.
- A mix of panels on the walls, location TBD but you simply need more 'soft' square footage. Most likely will be determined by where you have room

Pretty much everything about the room and in the room is hard (fireplace, glass aquarium, wood floors, etc. At this point it's not so much about optimal as it is just knocking down the decay time in the room where we can.

Bryan


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks again Bryan.

Bigger rug: easily doable. 

Curtains: also doable (any suggestions on what fabric? Is a suitable curtain available on the market, and should they be placed anywhere else besides over the windows?) 

Another pair of TriTraps...what about placement? The ceilings are 10' so stacking them on top of one another will not fill up the corners. Does it matter if the untreated space is at the top or the bottom of the corner?

Assortment of panels: where would you suggest starting...behind the mains, at mirror-determined reflection points, or where else? 

I will definitely relocate the sub-probably the first thing I will do. Even before any further treatment, should I expect a significant difference in LFE?

Thanks,
ROakes


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

I'm thinking some of your issues are seating position related.

Stacking tri traps will help with bottom end and also give some general absorbtion to the room.

Curtains - anything heavy and thick

Panels - most likely where the aquarium is and on the wall directly in front of you. 242's will be sufficient.

Bryan


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2008)

Bryan, do you mean on the wall above the aquarium and the wall behind the HT?

Thanks,
ROakes


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

By changing the sub placement you should notice a difference in low frequency output. How much difference will depend on how the sub interacts with the room. In my case, changing sub positions made all the difference in the world.


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2008)

Thanks, Mike. Will do...and, will post my subjective results as soon as I can. A longer cable will definitely be needed.

Thanks,
ROakes


----------



## Guest (Jan 6, 2008)

One more thing Mike, what do you think about moving the sub to the other (closer) side of the love seat, between the end table and the TriTrap? Would this be too close to the corner?

Thanks,
ROakes


----------



## Mike P. (Apr 6, 2007)

You will have to try it to find out. It might work, it might not. It's all about how a sub interacts with a specific room. Let us know how it turns out.


----------



## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Couple things, look for light blocking curtains, woven, not lined. These will obviously help with glare and are a little thicker than your average curtain. Get you cables from monoprice, if you don't know that one already. And, have you tried the old, put the sub in the listening position and then move around the room trick? This is usually an easy step over blind placement.


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

If you can't move the aquarium (highly recommended) then you'll have to go horizontally above it. The glass right next to the speaker is a problem.

Bryan


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

Okay Bryan, what about fashioning something to cover the side of the aquarium and cabinet that is next to the speaker? Maybe some sort of heavy fabric ( or multiple layers of the same) that I can glue or tack on? 
Thanks,
ROakes


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

That certainly wouldn't hurt anything. I'm thinking the front is just as much of an issue though. 

Bryan


----------



## titch-- (Sep 15, 2006)

Arnt fish really sensitive to vibrations? 

Id like to see the fish when watching a loud movie. :yikes:

I bet they go crazy.

heh


----------



## Guest (Jan 7, 2008)

You would think that it would bother them especially when there are big booms and lots of bass (well, the most that I experience in my untreated room), but it doesn't seem to. In fact, on several occasions I have noticed them all kind of floating in formation facing the TV like they are watching it too...LOL. Even more remarkable when you consider that they are discus and are supposed to be so sensitive and difficult to raise.


----------



## Guest (Feb 3, 2008)

Thank you Bryan for your suggestions last month! I have acted on a couple of them. I now have a larger area rug and can tell that the echo in the room has been somewhat lessened. Also, I have ordered blackout drapes for the rear windows.

I am ready to order another set of TriTraps to stack on top of the other set. My question is regarding best vertical placement in my room. The ceilings are 10' high, so the TriTraps will not fill up the corners from floor to ceiling. Does it matter if the untreated space is at the top or the bottom of the corners? There will be a gap of approximately 2'. Also, are there any tricks for stacking the TriTraps?

Thanks,
roakes


----------



## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

It's easiest to just sit them on the floor and stack directly on top. If you want to raise them you can but not sure what you'll do with the space underneath. It would likely be better to get them up to provide some additional absorbtion higher in the room since you have the rug, curtains, and furniture down low.

Bryan


----------

