# Surround speakers: Two pairs for sides?



## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I am thinking about changing the 5.1 speaker layout in my room (seen here). Currently the side surrounds, Klipsch RB-81's, are positioned beside the second row of seating and angled towards the first row. They are probably about 130 degrees from the main seating position. I'm finding that less than ideal sound quality wise and was wondering about a few options. I don't have rear surrounds as of yet either.

1) Replace the RB-81's with some *dipole RS-52's* (or RS-62's if I'm lucky) and position them between the seating rows. Add RB-61's for the rear. (would it be worth while saving for the *RS-62's* instead of the 52's?)

2) Replace the 81's with two pairs of *RB-61's *connected in parallel placed at 90 degrees to each seating position. Add two more RB-61's for the rear channels when budget permits.


#2 would be cool I think but running two speakers in parallel scares me. I know a stereo amp run of the pre-out would be a better alternative but that would add more expensive and take up more rack space. 

*Pros and Cons:*
- Cost wise a two pairs of RB-61's will only run me about $100 more than two RS-52's will cost. 
- The RB-61 is more of a fuller range speaker than the RS-52 (43Hz-23kHz vs 62Hz-23kHz). That probably doesn't matter too much considering the crossover would be set at 80Hz.
- I would have to buy two more wall mounts for the RB-61's whereas the RS-52's will mount right on the wall. This would add another $100 or so.

So really the main question is whether multiple monopole surrounds are better than single dipole/bipole surrounds? The second question would be on running two speakers in parallel (or series) off of a Denon 4306.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

MatrixDweller said:


> 1) Replace the RB-81's with some *dipole RS-52's* (or RS-62's if I'm lucky) and position them between the seating rows. Add RB-61's for the rear. (would it be worth while saving for the *RS-62's* instead of the 52's?)
> 
> 2) Replace the 81's with two pairs of *RB-61's *connected in parallel placed at 90 degrees to each seating position. Add two more RB-61's for the rear channels when budget permits.


So, you're ready to run a 7.1 now, Right???

I'll go with #1, get a pair of dipoles and place them between the two rows, then move the RB-81's to the back (or if you want to :spend:, get the new speakers you're planning).

Why do you wnat to get rid of the RB 81's??? ...Are the RB 61's better speakers??? :huh:


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I'd be selling one pair of RB-81's I have right now to finance the new purchase. The RB-81's are great but might be over kill for surrounds. They are huge hanging off the wall too. If I manage to sell the 81's for a good price I will not have to spend anything to upgrade and not as much to go 7.1.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> The RB-81's are great but might be over kill for surrounds. They are huge hanging off the wall too. If I manage to sell the 81's for a good price I will not have to spend anything to upgrade and not as much to go 7.1.


No such thing as overkill:bigsmile: With today's uncompressed audio formats there is allot more dynamic information sent to the surrounds now than ever before.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

I agree with salvasol...dipoles are the way to go..:T I would also suggest using dipoles for the rears as well..if your budget permits..


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

The RB-61 is a good performer and has a similar frequency response to the RB-81. I'll keep a pair of 81's as my mains. Like a posted earlier, the low freq cut off will be at 80Hz from the receiver so freq depth is not really in question. The 61's share the same horn and compression driver and have the same woofer as my RC-62. They will timber match perfectly. The 81 has a better sound stage than the 61 and is great for my mains. 

In an ideal, and deep pocketed, world I would be keeping the 81's and getting some RS-62's and a tin of caviar.


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

THX recommends Dipoles for side surrounds and Monopoles for rear surrounds.

http://www.thx.com/home/setup/speakers/dolby.html

I say, sell the RB-81s, buy a pair of RB-61s and a pair of RS-62s and enjoy.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Doing a bit of research on my AVR (Denon 4306) I found out that I can run two pairs of side surrounds and play them at the same time (A+B). The AVR runs them in parallel internally so I wouldn't have to wire them manually in parallel. It would also give me a bit of control as I could shut either set off (A or B). It still also allows me to run rear surrounds as well.

So what I'm thinking is to get 6 RB-61's have 2 speakers on the walls about 90 degrees to the seating row and then a couple on the back wall for the rear surround. I'm thinking that two monopoles will sound better than one dipole/bipole speaker for both rows. What are your opinions?


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## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

That's how the movie theaters do it. It certainly has merit. The only problem with that method is that you will get peaks and nulls because of the difference in distance to each speaker from each seat. You really can't correct for it either because it would be different for each seat. Will you be able to really hear it?....I don't know.


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## salvasol (Oct 31, 2006)

MatrixDweller said:


> So what I'm thinking is to get 6 RB-61's have 2 speakers on the walls about 90 degrees to the seating row and then a couple on the back wall for the rear surround. I'm thinking that two monopoles will sound better than one dipole/bipole speaker for both rows. What are your opinions?


My suggestion ....do it, and if you don't like it try something else (just place it temporary before final installation, just in case) :bigsmile:.

I think that sometimes we have to try new things (even if there's some rules to follow), I was using four pairs of speakers as fronts (connected through a speaker selector, see picture next to the frog), that was not recommended but using that set up I felt that the speakers were filling the whole front wall with the sound; when I used just one pair the sound was different ....)

Here's the proof










Instead of using all those small speakers, I decided to use this set up ...


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I'm wondering too if I put a diffuser panel in between the rows of seats (between the speakers) if that would make things sound more "surrounding". Or would it be better to use an absorber so that the sound wasn't reflected into the other row. 

I still have lots of work to do and much more fun ahead of me. I have learned a lot, mostly from mistakes, and am constantly improving things (almost Kaizen like). The next theater I build from scratch will be one to reckon with. My current room suffers from poor dimensions (10x20)and bulkheads. The next house will be bought with building a better theater in mind.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

Looks like I'm a bit late on this one. Dipoles work best when you are seated within the null of the speaker. Two dipoles next to each row with monopoles at the back would be my recommendation. They are all 8 ohm speakers with high efficiency, your 4306 shouldn't have any problem with them.


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