# Surround Speaker Placement in a Difficult Room



## Philm63 (Jan 1, 2015)

Diffucult in terms of layout for a living room HT, but it's what I've got to work with until I do the build in my basement (unfinished, sky is the limit, and all that...)

My situation is a 5.1 setup - fronts (LCR) don't seem to be a problem regarding placement, I think I've got that part figured out. It's the surrounds that are giving me grief. First of all, My Denon AVR-X2000 will allow 7.1 but I am only using the "Surround Left and Right (SLR)" taps, and the "Surround Back Left and Right (SBLR)" taps are currently not used. The speakers connected to these taps have always been a pair of bookshelves on stands behind my couch at maybe around 120 degrees from the MLP. This is just how I'd always done it, and it probably goes back to when I had only a 5.1 system.

Why I tap only the SLR and not the SBLR I have no idea, but I think I remember setting it up that way a couple of AVRs ago because perhaps on that particular AVR, the rear surround channels were not outputting to the speaker but the LR surrounds were - not sure if it was a setting issue but back then, my knowledge base was very limited. I suppose my current connection scheme is based on habit. I can hear surround effects pretty well so they seem to be working. But is it correct, or the best it can be?

Brings up sort of a multifaceted question; if I am going to run only 5.1 out of my 7.1-capable AVR, can I use either set of surround taps, or is one preferred over another in this case? Another facet of this question is; seeing as I am only going to use one set of surrounds, independent of which taps I choose, can I leave them placed approximately 120 or so degrees from the MLP? And yet another facet is the height - currently on stands which places the tweeters just about 6" above ear height. I'm looking to wall-mount the new ones that just arrived (Def Tec ProMonitor 800's) and this height will no longer be an option (baby's on the way - gotta get the surrounds off the floor...) 

My options for wall-mounting the surrounds are limited by the available space for one of the two speakers - the Left Surround, and I'd like to keep them equal height and equal distances from the MLP - I can do this but again, it will be based on the limitations of that one speaker. That one needs to fit on one small strip of wall between a door and the dining room bay window. This one small strip of wall, about 12" wide, will work well, but it also means that it will need to be up high to avoid contact when going in and out of that door. 7' up or so should do it.

So, using only one set of surrounds, I'm looking for a warm fuzzy regarding the acceptability of the height and angle to the MLP, and correct set of taps on the AVR (SLR vs. SBLR). Will this placement be OK, and should I be using the SLR or SBLR taps?


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## Tom Riddle (Aug 25, 2013)

The speakers don't need to be perfectly equidistant, they will just need to be level matched after mounting. The X-2000 has Audyssey, so it will perform the room eq and trim adjustments for you. The speakers height doesn't much matter, but they will need to be angled down in such a way that the speakers sound is focused above your head. The 120 degrees you have the surrounds currently at is not ideal placement as the speaker will be firing sound into a location it wasn't meant to be. Are your new surrounds direct radiating (boomshelf) or a bipole (true surround in phase) or dipole ( true surround opposing phase)?


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## Philm63 (Jan 1, 2015)

Tom Riddle said:


> The speakers don't need to be perfectly equidistant, they will just need to be level matched after mounting. The X-2000 has Audyssey, so it will perform the room eq and trim adjustments for you. The speakers height doesn't much matter, but they will need to be angled down in such a way that the speakers sound is focused above your head. The 120 degrees you have the surrounds currently at is not ideal placement as the speaker will be firing sound into a location it wasn't meant to be. Are your new surrounds direct radiating (boomshelf) or a bipole (true surround in phase) or dipole ( true surround opposing phase)?


The surrounds are direct radiating (Def Tec PM800's) and I have the Pro-90 swiveling mounts so when I install, I'll be sure to aim them at the MLP.

It is unfortunate that the mounting scheme will be limited to the arrangement I described earlier, but I'd still like to be sure I am making the most of it. In light of your comment; should I use the back surround channels instead of the side surround channels (assuming this would work on my current AVR)? Is there a scheme available that blends these channels, or does this concept even exist?


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## Tom Riddle (Aug 25, 2013)

Philm63 said:


> The surrounds are direct radiating (Def Tec PM800's) and I have the Pro-90 swiveling mounts so when I install, I'll be sure to aim them at the MLP.
> 
> It is unfortunate that the mounting scheme will be limited to the arrangement I described earlier, but I'd still like to be sure I am making the most of it. In light of your comment; should I use the back surround channels instead of the side surround channels (assuming this would work on my current AVR)? Is there a scheme available that blends these channels, or does this concept even exist?


No, only if you are adding 2 more speakers. You can't use rear surrounds without side surrounds.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Tom Riddle said:


> No, only if you are adding 2 more speakers. You can't use rear surrounds without side surrounds.


 to add, you have to use the corresponding "taps" because they receive different information. In the same way all of the other speaker outputs do too. (In a 7.1 track anyway) matrixing,or up mixing a 5.1 to play on 7 speakers is different.


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## Philm63 (Jan 1, 2015)

Tom Riddle said:


> No, only if you are adding 2 more speakers. You can't use rear surrounds without side surrounds.


So it is that perhaps in my older setup, the rear surrounds would not work because I did not have side surrounds also connected - makes sense to me. So.... I guess having the surround speakers, if only two are being used, connected to the Surround LR taps is the right move, and if I decide to add two more surrounds, that's when I'd tap into the Surround Back LR's.

I remeasured distances this morning and my rears are actually at about 100 degrees from the MLP so they're not too far off from where that surround LR information is supposed to be.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Tom Riddle said:


> You can't use rear surrounds without side surrounds.


Nothing says in a 5.1 speaker setup that you cant put the side surrounds on the rear wall though. It works quite well that way. You just have to make sure that you use the "side surround" speaker outputs not the "rear surround" ones.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

This is basically true, but ime and imo, too far around the back, and the bubble will collapse, and discrete effects will sound out of place. I don't find surrounds at ear height to work as well either.


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## Tom Riddle (Aug 25, 2013)

I agree. Side surrounds can be placed in the rear, but it's not ideal.


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