# New house! Need surr. speaker placement recommendation pls



## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

I am the proud owner of a new house (finally, no more condo!!!), and am planning to run in-wall speaker wires since I actually have both attic and crawlspace access and can do so without tearing out long chunks of drywall. No wires make wife happy. (ok, me too)

I'm hoping you all can lend me some advice as to speaker placement in the Living Room and Master bedroom, because naturally, it's not as simple as I'd like.

Please excuse my sloppy MS Paint work, but I don't have the time (or inclination) to create precise CAD drawings, and I don't have AutoCAD on my work computer anyway. 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Living room system:*

Denon AVR-3312ci receiver
Klipsch RF-35 Floorstanders (L/R)
Klipsch RC-35 Center
Klipsch RS-41 II Surround Speakers
Klipsch RC-42 II Rear Center 
Emotiva Ultra Sub 12 Sub

I'm fairly certain of the placement here, but some confirmation would be nice before I start drilling holes. This room is a tad tricky due to the many open walls that lead to other rooms. I have an all-Klipsch 6.1 setup (except the Emo sub... soon to be 2 of them, I hope!). RF35+RC35 for L/C/R. The Surround bit consists of a pair RS-41 II's (dipole) plus a small RC-42 II center for rear center.

L/C/R are no problem. It's the surrounds that are tricky. Currently I intend to put a small shelf on the little 2' of wall that comes down from the ceiling and put the surr. back speaker on that (the RC42 center). It's higher than ideal, but can be angled slightly to point down at the seating area. The rest of that wall is open to the kitchen, as you can see in my sloppy MS Paint layout and the photo. The two surrounds, being dipoles, I figure can be mounted on the wall to the left and right of the seating area, where indicated in the layout. Same height as the rear center (for tone matching reasons and because the right surround is on a similar slice of wall coming from the ceiling in an entryway to the dining area).

I guess the only question for the living room is whether it makes any more sense to mount the two L/R surrounds flat on that back wall, instead, again, at the same height as the rear center (which is necessarily near the ceiling since that's all the wall there is to work with there). Stick with the first idea, or go with the second?

Photos (ignore the contents, and the kitchen bar, these were shot during the open house before we purchased and remodeled):






























~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Master Bedroom system:*

Denon AVR-2112CI receiver
B&W DM610 Bookshelf speakers
Paradigm SE Center
Paradigm ADP-190 surrounds (dipole)
Polk Audio PSW350 sub

This is the trickier setup, since the room is smaller. We had the window in the photos below (see the photo on the left for the main TV wall) removed, and the TV is mounted on the wall there. I'm having a long 18" deep shelf built all along the top edge of the wall, down to just above the door height. Left and Right speakers will lie down on their sides, and the center channel will be above the TV, of course (which is right where the window is now). Components will also be on the shelf, on either side of the center speaker.

Ignore sub placement in the photo... it's most likely going to go to the side of the chest of drawers to the left of the bed (right below the speaker in position a). The proportions of that room, drawn from memory while working, are pretty off. :doh: We'll see how it sounds once I get the system in place and can hear how it plays out (and what Audyssey can do with it).

The bigger question is the surrounds (Paradigm ADP-190 dipoles). I have two placement options: On the back wall, above bed (position c and d, in my diagram), or on the side walls to the left and right of the listening position (but forced forward of optimal due to the opening to the bathroom to the left), at position a and b? Ordinarily I know dipoles would be at a+b, to the left and right of the listening position, but given that (1) we're back against the wall, and (2) the speakers can't go directly at the side because of the opening to the bathroom, I think farther forward would be bad for the surround effect and perhaps they should go on the back wall at position c and d. What do you think?

Any advice is appreciated. Thanks in advance! 

Photos (ignore the contents, and the window, since these are from before we purchased and remodeled):


----------



## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

You have a similar setup to me, but just keep in mind that running wire will probably not be as trivial as you make it. Also, exterior walls will have insulation that will make fishing difficult. I know I have a very low crawlspace with ductwork and insulation, and an attic with 12"+ fluffy insulation and scissor trusses. It's on my list, but I'm not looking forward to it.

First thing I would say is that you configuration looks great. Having the display oriented the way that you do will allow it to be seen from the kitchen when cooking/cleaning/entertaining. From the pictures, it looks like your couch may not be able to move up as far as you have it in the diagram. Double check that because you want your surround to the side or behind you. You may need to reduce down to a 5.1 system and put the surround behind you above the kitchen passthrough, or mount your surround above you entry way.

For the bedroom, 7.1 speakers, especially those directly above your head, will be overkill and will offer few advantages over 5.1. I'd skip the back speakers.

Also, if you're going to wire, wire for projection now. At some point, you or the next owner will likely want it, and if you're going to be in the attic anyway, wire is cheap.


----------



## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

eugovector said:


> You have a similar setup to me, but just keep in mind that running wire will probably not be as trivial as you make it. Also, exterior walls will have insulation that will make fishing difficult. I know I have a very low crawlspace with ductwork and insulation, and an attic with 12"+ fluffy insulation and scissor trusses. It's on my list, but I'm not looking forward to it.
> 
> First thing I would say is that you configuration looks great. Having the display oriented the way that you do will allow it to be seen from the kitchen when cooking/cleaning/entertaining. From the pictures, it looks like your couch may not be able to move up as far as you have it in the diagram. Double check that because you want your surround to the side or behind you. You may need to reduce down to a 5.1 system and put the surround behind you above the kitchen passthrough, or mount your surround above you entry way.
> 
> ...


Thanks!  I'm quite pleased... the configuration allowed by this larger living room is really going to be an improvement over my last home. I'm glad I won the battle with my wife to put the main TV in the living room rather than the open area past the dining room!

I'm not looking forward to working up in the attic either, but it only has to be done once, and I may as get it all done while we're still getting things set up, painting, etc., and do it right from the start. It'll be sooooo nice to not have wires climbing up the walls anymore! It does get tight in that part of the attic, though. Worst case, since the speakers are mounted near the ceiling, I could always have the wires exit into the ceiling and drop down the last foot, still better than climbing all the way up from the floor. And yes, in-wall insulation is a pain, but it's manageable. I've done it before.

The living room isn't an issue at all, from any standpoint. There is a nice sized attic above it, so running wire will be super easy, just the one exterior wall to deal with and that's a short run, and the ceiling continues over a front porch so I'm not down the low part yet there on the left surround by the front door. Couch position is not an issue, either... my drawing was very off-the-cuff and not very to scale or proportion (and it'll be even better when we replace the sofa with a mirror-image so the long part is on the left). Side surrounds will be directly to the side and just slightly behind the listening position, so no problem at all, it's just not clear in the sketch.

The bedroom system isn't intended to be 7.1, just 5.1: Those placements are just showing the two mounting positions options I was considering. I think I will be putting them on the back wall, above the bed (c & d position, nearish to the ceiling), because the "a" speaker position is forced to be a little forward of the listening position due to the open pathway into the bathroom... nowhere to mount it until past that door, and that's too far forward, I think. The c & d mounting positions aren't 100% ideal, especially for dipoles, but I don't see a better way to go, given the room layout.

I'll hold off on wiring for projection at this point. I just don't see that in my future in this house, certainly not for a bedroom system. I may get one in the living room at some point, but I'm more likely to go Plasma (drooling over a Panny GT65) for at least the next couple of years... by the time I go projector, newer tech might be available. It's easy to get into the attic at any time with this house... one of the things I love about it!

Once our kitchen rebuild is FINALLY done (a couple weeks more at most, I think), and all the speakers are up, I'll be sure to take and post some photos. I can't wait to get a fully-functional system back up and running again... subsisting on ONE 3.1 system (since the bedroom wall has to be painted before I can mount the TV, and I still need the speaker/component shelf built!) has been fairly hellish! (not to mention no kitchen... argh!)


----------



## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

My wife would kill me for even contemplating this, but... I wonder if I should go all out and go 7.1 in the living room? I already have the Klipsch RC-42 II Rear center for a 6.1 system, but the thought occurs that I could pick up a pair of Klipsch RB-41 II bookshelfs (small at 5-11/16"W x 8-15/16"H x 8-1/8"D) instead, and put them on either side of where I had planned to put the center, for a full-blown 7.1 setup instead of the 6.1 setup. I wouldn't even need a shelf since they're easy to wall mount, or use with brackets. Either side of that opening to the kitchen, which you can see in the 4th photo of the living room.

I have no idea what I'd do with the leftover center, I guess I'd need to sell it (a shame since it's fairly new), but... hrmmm...


----------



## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

You could go with in-ceilings in the bedroom, and then you'll have a couple extra speakers to go 7.1 in the living room.


----------



## KalaniP (Dec 17, 2008)

eugovector said:


> You could go with in-ceilings in the bedroom, and then you'll have a couple extra speakers to go 7.1 in the living room.


Yeah, but decent in-ceiling speakers are pretty spendy. I'm happy with my Paradigm ADP-190's surrounds for the bedroom, and I intend to migrate the BR to an all-Paradigm setup over time (eventually I'll migrate my B&W mains to Paradigm SE mains to go with the Center), so I should stick with what I've got there.

I got a good price on the Klipsch bookshelfs for the living room, so that's a simple change.


----------

