# Sticky  New and looking for a good starter system?



## tonyvdb

*New and looking for a good starter system? Read this.*

Lately there are many new members looking to build their first home theater system (receiver and speakers along with a subwoofer) and are looking for the best setup that can be found for a good price.

Member Jungle Jack and myself have started to compile a list of what we think are good buys that can be had for what a so called decent Home Theater In a Box (HTIB) system would cost.
We highly recommend that you stay away from HTIB systems due to there strange hookup connections and lack of real power compared to what they are rated for. Have a look here for more info on this subject.

Generally a lot of newcomers want a great sounding 5.1 surround system but think it can be done for under $300 and that is very unrealistic. Room size as well as layout play a huge part in what a small HTIB system can do. Quality suffers and you end up needing to upgrade within a year because of the unsatisfactory results.
If this is a purchase that you want to keep for several years then be prepared to pay at least $800 and more ($1200) if your room is larger then a bedroom. 
Remember this is about building a system that will not only sound good but last at least 5 years without the need to upgrade.
Due to prices fluctuating so much its very hard to keep a topic like this up to date but you can usually get a much better deal on a receiver & speakers Internet direct rather than your local big box store. This is because of you not having to pay sales people or rent on a large storefront.

There is also a new option on the storefront and that is the new 3D. 
If you are just buying all new equipment then it may be a good idea to get a receiver, Bluray player and Display/Projector that are all HDMI 1.4 compliant, see here for more info.

*Receiver*:
Ok, now the serious part. You have to make a decision as to what you have for a budget. Be realistic and realize that $200 is not going to get you anything that will last. 
Lets start with a receiver, The receiver is the heart of the system as it handles both the audio and the video and all of your components (DVD, CD, BluRay and satellite receiver) plug into it.
You need to realize that a receiver that is rated to output 75watts per channel and only costs $200 is not truly going to output that much (less than half in some cases) The industry still need to get some stricter standards with this regard and the consumer is often fooled by misleading numbers. A heavy receiver that has a large power supply is going to reach those mumbers much better so if it weighs less than 30lbs be aware.

You want a receiver that has at the very least High Definition Media Interface (HDMI) pass-through meaning that what ever is sent over HDMI is passed through the receiver without any processing or upconversion. You want the newest uncompressed audio formats Dolby TruHD and DTS Master audio decoding. Some sort of auto room correction is also a must have like Audessey MMAC or YAPO this corrects your sound through the speakers by EQing everything and adjusting for room delay (I wont get into to much detail here).
There are many manufacturers of receivers and this can get very confusing, The big players in this price range are (in no particular order) Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Marantz and Pioneer. They all have there pros and cons my personal favorite is Onkyo only because they seem to have the best options and features for the money in the past 3 years. 

So the one question that seems to pop up from time to time is "is spending the money on a more expensive receiver worth it?" The answer is up to a certain point, Yes. Lower end models tend to use cheaper parts and lower quality DACs. The power supplies are small and dont supply the receivers amps with enough power to run all the channels at the same time causing distortion and poor quality sound and usually dont offer as many features like auto room correction, pre outs and useful surround modes.
More expensive receivers ($600-$1500) have high end DACs (giving the listener the best sound possible from movies) Large power supply, pre outs for hooking up external amps if needed and well designed auto room correction. 

There comes a point where all your money buys you is more bells and whistles (but not always) and sometimes a name. But it is recommended that you do get the best your money can buy but only up to a certain point. 

*Speakers*:
Speakers are also a very important part of the system as if you buy cheap speakers you can have the best receiver but ultimately if they are junk you wont realize how much your sound quality will suffer. If they are made of plastic and are only the size of a pop can dont expect much.
There is many options to go with here (too many to mention) but look for a speaker that is heavy and made of solid wood (MDF is fine), has at least a 5" mid driver and 1" tweeter and made by a well known manufacturer.
You have two main choices, a tower (floorstander) or bookshelf. Its very hard to find a good quality tower speaker for a budget of under $500 (speakers only) so you will need to be very cautious when shopping for them. 
Bookshelves can sound fantastic and there are a number of good deals to be had.

More Below:


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## tonyvdb

Right now for a good receiver offering everything you need you need to be willing to spend about $450USD Again On line or what we call Internet Direct is the best way to get deals. Also looking for last years model saves you big bucks and there is usually very little difference between them.

*Looking for a Receiver*
Accessories4less is a great place to start looking for a receiver thats low cost but still going to give you some reliability.
You want to look for a receiver with a good Room EQ such as Audyssey MultiEQ XT
For the last number of years Onkyo has been the best receiver for features and in bench tests has preformed better than average for driving all channels with the internal amps without distortion. Look for models starting with the 6xx series and above.

Another place to look is Amazon or Newegg

*Speaker packages*
For speakers we highly recommend SVSound They have speaker and sub packages for every budget and are very good quality. A review of the SVS SBS-01's here
Chase Home Theater is another great option

*Other less expensive options:*
Fluance 5 speaker system
The Behringer B2030 monitors are also a great choice. Look here for a discussion about them. They can be found for under $300 a pair. and are also a great starter speaker.
If your looking for something small the Orb Audio speakers are also a good option.

*Here are some other good speaker manufacturers:* That make affordable speakers
Most of these can be found on line or in your local Big box store.
Klipsch
Polk Audio
JBL
and the list goes on...


If you still cant spend alot simply starting to buy speakers in pairs (2 at a time) you can build your system slowly while staying within a tight budget and in the end you wont be disappointed.

Sub's under $650
Elemental designs A3-300
SVS SB12NSD
HSU VTF MK2
Velodyne Impact10 sub
Elemental designs A3S sub


Now if your in Canada the deals are not as easy to find and if you dont want the hassle of shipping across the boarder and paying brokerage fees and sometimes more here or here are good Canadian sites too keep your eyes on for deals.
SVSound has a Canadian distributor called Sonic Boom Audio So you can still get them without any hassles.

Remember that you need to buy cables for connecting your speakers and components to the Receiver. DO NOT buy Monster or any other high priced cables as they do not make any audible difference. 

What you will need for starters:
at least 2 HDMI cables one for the display and one from the BluRay/DVD player
a 100' spool of 14awg speaker wire

These are your best options:

Monoprice
Ram Electronics
or if your in Canada Cable salesCanada


*Important note:*
Keep in mind that room acoustics and dimensions will play a huge part in how your system will sound. 
A room with lots of hard surfaces will reflect much of the sound and this is undesirable. This can cause allot of echo and even boomyness. There are many options to help get rid of this. Acoustic panels and "traps" can be built by hand or bought form places like GIK Acoustics and can make a huge difference. 
A square room is the worst room dimensions you can have as this causes cancellation of frequencies and very poor sound in general. Ideally a room with non right angle walls is the best but not very practical so a rectangular room is the next best choice but stay away from dimensions that are 1/3 as wide as it is long.


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## showgren

This is just what I have been looking for!
I have around $800 to spend. Until I read your post I had been looking at the Onkyo S9100THX ($850 on newegg and amazon). Is there any advantage going with the Onkyo 607 over the 606 you recommend (only $60 more)? Also, can you make suggestions in the "$800" range for book shelf speakers as I want everything mounted and out of the way.

Thanks!


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## tonyvdb

Really the only difference between the 607 and the 606 is the 607 has the new Dolby PLz hight channels that "simulate" objects falling. Personally not a big deal and the 607 has network firmware upgrade ability.

As I linked to above the SVS SBS-01's are about the best "bookshelf" speakers you can get for a small price and if you buy the 5.1 package you get a very good sub included for a total of $799. You will not find a better package deal.


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## showgren

I would be left with no cash for a receiver if I purchased the speakers...


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## Emuc64

showgren said:


> I would be left with no cash for a receiver if I purchased the speakers...


Hi,

I suggest starting a new thread in the "Theater System Recommendations". In the body, include what you want (e.g. 2.0 stereo system, bookshelf size), or what you want to use it for (e.g. 90% music, 10% movies), your max budget, room size, flooring type, what equipment (if any) you already have so far, and maybe a list of things that you have to have (e.g. video conversion). Do you want used equipment or new only?

Things like that. The more detail you provide, the better the recommendation folks here can give.

Just my 2 cents,
H


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## tonyvdb

Emuc64 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I suggest starting a new thread in the "Theater System Recommendations".


Agreed, We will help find something that will work for you.


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## Clint

Marantz is a "big player" yet no mention of Sony?


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## tonyvdb

Sony is not a maker of good quality receivers. Lots of quality issues and way over rated.


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## Clint

How did you reach that conclusion?


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## tonyvdb

Through many friends who have them (we have two at work) and have had nothing but issues and the many reviews throughout the net. 
If you are happy with Sony thats fine They do make great displays and video cameras they simply dont compete with Onkyo/Integra, Yamaha, Marantz or Denon for receivers.


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## glaufman

For the record, my Sony receiver has given me many hours of sonic bliss for the past ten years that I've owned it. Same goes for two others I know with the same or similar model.


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## Clint

I've owned at least three Sony receivers and all have been trouble free. Everyone is certainly entitled to his or her opinion but to state that "the big players in this price range are (in no particular order) Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Marantz and Pioneer" and ignore THE biggest player is inaccurate at best.


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## tonyvdb

Clint said:


> and ignore THE biggest player is inaccurate at best.


Sony is not by any means a big player in the receiver field and I am by no means bashing Sony but just stating the general consensus that Sony does not make a great quality receiver particularly for the money. Most (but not all) here at the Shack will agree.


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## eugovector

While I love the shack, we can, at times, suffer from a little group think here.

I've had many Sony products, all which functioned fine, but I thought were overpriced for their specs, performance. For that reason, not reliability, I would suggest examining all other options as well as Sony.


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## Clint

tonyvdb said:


> Sony is not by any means a big player in the receiver field


Yet they're 5 of the top 10 sellers on Amazon and 3 of 10 at J&R...


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## glaufman

eugovector said:


> While I love the shack, we can, at times, suffer from a little group think here.
> 
> I've had many Sony products, all which functioned fine, but I thought were overpriced for their specs, performance. For that reason, not reliability, I would suggest examining all other options as well as Sony.


I agree, on paper at least, WRT contemporary AVRs. I don't know if I could do the same today, but when I bought my AVR I got a huge discount off MSRP.


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## tonyvdb

Clint said:


> Yet they're 5 of the top 10 sellers on Amazon and 3 of 10 at J&R...


Thats generally because most people are not well informed and Sony has a large following because of good marketing that does not mean they are the most reliable. Bose falls well into this great marketing idea as well, that does not mean that it is good quality. 
Dont get me wrong here Sony makes "some" great stuff just not all of it.
This is another reason why I did not include HK in the list although an ok receiver for the price they dont offer as much for your money and a number of reports of poor reliability.


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## owlfan12000

tonyvdb said:


> *Speaker packages*
> [*]For speakers we highly recommend SVSound, The SBS-01 5.1 speaker package including a very good subwoofer for under $800 is a fantastic deal and I would say impossible to beat.
> A review of the SVS SBS-01's here


You might want to take a look at the speaker recommendations again. It looks like the SBS-01 package has been updated and now run $1055 minimum.


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## tonyvdb

Thanks, I will update that info but that is still a very good deal and still cant be beat for the price and quality.


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## hayabusa3

*Re: New and looking for a good starter system? Read this.*



tonyvdb said:


> Its very hard to find a good quality tower speaker for a budget of under $500 (speakers only) so you will need to be very cautious when shopping for them.
> Bookshelves can sound fantastic and there are a number of good deals to be had.
> 
> More Below:


Hi Tony - this kind of reads to me like bookshelve speakers are better than towers...is that right?


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## glaufman

I don't think that's what Tony meant per se. There are bookshelves out there that sound great. There are towers out there that sound great. Which way you want to go largely depends on your needs and budget.

Tony may have been saying bookshelves would be better for your situation, but he of course can speak for himself.


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## tonyvdb

If all you have to spend is say $400 you will find that a good quality bookshelve will sound better than a tower speaker for the same money. Towers generally sound better if you can spend the money that better quality towers cost ($600 and up).


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## dbstaggs

So I am new and am confused about a couple things. What all is involved in a home theater setup? When i am reading your posts, it looks like i need a receiver, 5 or 7 speakers, sub, blu ray, and monitor. But i read other posts and they are talking about crossovers and amplifiers? I dont know what either one of those are, and i dont know where they fall into the home theater setup. 

Can I run a 5.1 setup from svs with just a receiver, or are extra items required? 

Thanks in advance

Love the shack

david


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## tonyvdb

Hello David, The crossovers and adjustments are all done in the receivers setup usually automatically so no worries. The SVS speaker setup is in my opinion one of the best for the money available all you need is a receiver and an display and your set.


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## eugovector

5 speakers, a sub, an AV Receiver, and the requisite cables are all you need.


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## peterselby7

I have to agree that with a limited budget a small monitor will be tough to beat. The sub can handle everything from 100 down. There just isn't a good reason to use towers on a small budget. IMO subs are a better way to get the bass on the cheap.


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## GranteedEV

peterselby7 said:


> I have to agree that with a limited budget a small monitor will be tough to beat. The sub can handle everything from 100 down. There just isn't a good reason to use towers on a small budget.



Of course, there is the cost of stands, which often brings your price up to what you'd pay for a tower anyways.

Companies like Aperion, Axiom and EMP have pretty good deals on Towers IMHO

In fact, if you go into the blemish section, an EMP e5ti can be had for a mere 400 dollars.


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## eugovector

I'm a fan of the cinderblock speaker stand which shouldn't cost you more than $20 for the pair


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## tonyvdb

eugovector said:


> I'm a fan of the cinderblock speaker stand which shouldn't cost you more than $20 for the pair


LOL, I needed this laugh that is a great cheap stand, nice and solid.


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## eugovector

tonyvdb said:


> LOL, I needed this laugh that is a great cheap stand, nice and solid.


I was being serious (well, playfully so). I doesn't look like much, but you can always through some fabric over it. When you look at the money people spend for super sturdy stands filled with leadshot or sand, you won't get anything as inert as concrete when you're done.

I used cinderblocks with my JBL 38ii fronts for about 5 years. Got rid of them because I upgraded to S310ii, was moving, and it was a pain to play with different speaker positioning.


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## tonyvdb

I used cinder blocks for my coffee table legs for many years until I got married


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## letzleta

I agree with the earlier statements about sony receivers being overpriced and generally not the best option when compared to the other brands mentioned, however, I feel HK should be included. Having owned Onkyo, Yamaha, and HK receivers, I favor the HK. I have never had any reliability issues with either of the models I have owned and the quality of sound they produce caused me to get rid of my Onkyo and purchase another HK. I also like the fact that they rate the power more realistically (all channels driven).


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## Shackmonster

Guys I didn't see a post that specified what would be included in this new "home theater". I don't see much mention of a display or source component. Unless you work in a place that sells and/or services consumer electronics you are not in a position to know what the "quality" level is of any particular item, so let's leave that aspect alone.

One way to tell if a receiver has a chance to be powerful is by weight. The reason for that is power supply parts are relatively heavy so one receiver/amp that is significantly heavier than another stands a decent chance to be able to play louder without distortion because there is a good chance it puts out more power. There are so many games played with power ratings that you must look very closely in order to compare apples to apples. If power specs are given without being full-scale (20Hz to 20khz) they aren't really useful. Be careful to check if one receiver is rated at 8ohms while another is rated at 6ohms. Until you get further up a brands' line, receivers usually won't/can't do well with 4ohm speakers. Personally I think a lot of people put far too much emphasis on the power output. Unless you listen at reference levels and/or in a very large space, you won't need ultra power because most of the time you will be using/listening at only a few watts (less than 5).

Blu-ray players that perform superbly in both load and response aspects are available for less than $150 today, sometimes less than $100. These machines can play Blu-ray, DVD's, and CD's and some can play SACD's as well. I know there are some players that can play all disc formats but they are more expensive, much more. While on the subject of disc players, don’t worry at all what DAC is used unless you will be using the analog audio outputs and I can’t think why you would want to do that in today’s world. 

As far as speakers go, it is very difficult to pin down as far as making any specific recommendations because human hearing is so subjective. What someone likes, another person make really dislike. I have heard very expensive B&W speakers that I absolutely hated and yet they are liked by many and receive very positive reviews. I don't care about any review or how many other people like them, I hate them, and when it comes to my home theater I only want things that I like. The best advice I can give anyone regarding speakers is to purchase them from a place that will let you try them out in YOUR home for a while and see how YOU like them. I emphasize YOU and YOUR home because the room of your theater will have BY FAR the most impact on the sound you ultimately hear. If you don't believe that think of it this way, what if you took the same speakers and put them in the bathroom, would the sound be the same? Of course it wouldn't, and for good reason, the size and shape of the room has affected the sound, and remember you are listening to the same receiver/amp and speakers so only the room has changed.

The next piece of equipment that has a lot of impact on the sound you hear are the speakers, much much more than a different amp/receiver does. The room correction/equalization software in modern receivers can have a fairly significant positive impact on the sound. This software can make even modest speaker systems sound pretty good (a very subjective term I know).

Unless you are prepared to spend a pretty good deal of money on your receiver (over $1,000) I would buy the receiver based upon features, NOT specs and surely not power specs. I am not saying everyone needs a $1,000 receiver, most don’t, I am saying that from my experience receivers/amps won’t have much audible difference unless they are pushed into distortion. In fact there has been a $10,000 challenge out there for more than 10 years to anyone who can reliably hear the difference between any two amps of any design as long as they aren’t pushed to distortion. To date thousands of people have taken the challenge including professional reviewers and nobody has even come close to winning the money.

I feel it is more prudent to wait and save sufficient funds to buy equipment that can perform adequately rather than try to put together a complete system/home theater on a shoestring. If you really must do so then try to plan so that the items you buy today can be used later in another room, perhaps a bedroom or something so that it won't be money wasted.

For example I would recommend buying "bookshelf" speakers for now and think that you will/can add a subwoofer at a later date, you don’t have to buy the sub now. Ok you won’t have wall-rattling bass but think of the fun you will have listening to and hunting down your sub later. Don't fall into the trap that towers are better or worse than bookshelf models, all designs have good and bad points. You can buy bookshelf speakers that will put out more accurate sound for the same or less money than equivalent floorstanders would cost. Make your own stands or buy some inexpensive ones until you have more funds. There is also a famous story about a certain high-end company that went to a show and for some reason the speaker cables didn't arrive so they bought and used a electrical extension cords which they cut and used and nobody knew. That room got very glowing reviews from several of the "audiophile magazines".


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## eugovector

Shackmonster said:


> Guys I didn't see a post that specified what would be included in this new "home theater". I don't see much mention of a display or source component.


Feel free to chime in and be part of the solution. The problem for me with displays is that the decision is much more personal based on room specifics than audio. At their hearts, everything from a Bose Cube to a Watt/Puppy are essentially the same design, a driver moving air to make sound. Certainly, some speakers move air at greater volumes and more accurately than others, but the underlying tech is the same. Also, yes, there are electrostats, dipole, omni, and other more esoteric designs, but in majority case of Home Theater Enthusiasts, a direct radiating monopole is not only what they are looking for, but it's the right choice (no offense intended to the owners of fine speakers of different design).

On the other hand, Projectors, Plasma, LCD, and RPTV are all popular and viable options, though likely only one tech will work best in many people's setups so it's difficult to make a blanket recommendation. Perhaps a post succinctly detailing the pros and cons of both would be appropriate, or perhaps we should title the thread "...good surround sound system"?



Shackmonster said:


> Unless you work in a place that sells and/or services consumer electronics you are not in a position to know what the "quality" level is of any particular item, so let's leave that aspect alone.


Many of us currently do, or have in the past so you should be careful about th assumptions you make here. Also, even if you don't work in the field, the average Joe can get a lot of info from his own personal experience and the experience of others. Yes, when you consider the vast numbers of HT equipment produced and sold, these opinions represent a very small sample size, but they are better than nothing, and often better than just trusting the guy at the store, or the guy on the forum


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## Shackmonster

eugovector said:


> Feel free to chime in and be part of the solution. The problem for me with displays is that the decision is much more personal based on room specifics than audio. At their hearts, everything from a Bose Cube to a Watt/Puppy are essentially the same design, a driver moving air to make sound. Certainly, some speakers move air at greater volumes and more accurately than others, but the underlying tech is the same. Also, yes, there are electrostats, dipole, omni, and other more esoteric designs, but in majority case of Home Theater Enthusiasts, a direct radiating monopole is not only what they are looking for, but it's the right choice (no offense intended to the owners of fine speakers of different design).
> 
> On the other hand, Projectors, Plasma, LCD, and RPTV are all popular and viable options, though likely only one tech will work best in many people's setups so it's difficult to make a blanket recommendation. Perhaps a post succinctly detailing the pros and cons of both would be appropriate, or perhaps we should title the thread "...good surround sound system"?
> 
> 
> 
> Many of us currently do, or have in the past so you should be careful about th assumptions you make here. Also, even if you don't work in the field, the average Joe can get a lot of info from his own personal experience and the experience of others. Yes, when you consider the vast numbers of HT equipment produced and sold, these opinions represent a very small sample size, but they are better than nothing, and often better than just trusting the guy at the store, or the guy on the forum


eugovector,

I wasn't making any assumptions however, I would disagree with your stated thinking. The average Joe can not get sufficient info from his/her own experience. The experience of others is second-hand info, not verified fact. How many pieces of equipment can a person or even a few people if you include friends own in a lifetime, perhaps 50, say it's even 100, that's not nearly enough to "know" anything about the quality of a particular manufacturer. These companies make tens of thousands of units maybe more in some cases and EVERY manufacturer has a hiccup now and then, that doesn't make them an unreliable brand/model. That is what a warranty is for.

Now if you work in the industry selling or repairing this gear for many years you might, I say might get some sort of an idea that a particular manufacturer has more issues/returns than the others and even that can change rapidly as ownership of the company changes or undergoes a management shakeup etc.

Any company that has constant quality issues will either have to shut down that line/brand or face going out of business. All the major consumer electronics names (Sony, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo etc.) have been selling their products for quite some time so they can't be all that bad. You may have an opinion that a certain model or brand does not make/sell products that are any good however, I can tell you that a lot of other people would disagree with you. 

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, just as everyone else is, but just try to think of things like this: a particular manufacturer may not produce items that are attractive to you for whatever reason(s) but those very same items are just fine for somebody else. It might be for reasons you find ridiculous like having the same faceplate/brand or the color of the display or the size or whatever. 

I do agree with you that we should not trust the guy in the store, most of the time they have no idea what they are talking about.


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## eugovector

That's why I admitted the small sample size. However, by your logic, one person would have to have experience with hundreds, if not thousands of products to get a statistically significant sample size. Even the busiest repair facility would have a hard time achieving such numbers, and then would be skewed in that they see only the "problem children". So what is the answer, whose opinion do we trust? Seems to me the answer would be a combination of companies with reputable QC, feedback the knowledgeable folks in the industry, and personal experience.

Do you have credentials that place your experience above those of the "Average Joe"? If so, please share, because your recent comments seem unduly dismissive of others who are experienced, knowledgeable, and credentialed.


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## Shackmonster

eugovector said:


> That's why I admitted the small sample size. However, by your logic, one person would have to have experience with hundreds, if not thousands of products to get a statistically significant sample size. Even the busiest repair facility would have a hard time achieving such numbers, and then would be skewed in that they see only the "problem children". So what is the answer, whose opinion do we trust? Seems to me the answer would be a combination of companies with reputable QC, feedback the knowledgeable folks in the industry, and personal experience.
> 
> Do you have credentials that place your experience above those of the "Average Joe"? If so, please share, because your recent comments seem unduly dismissive of others who are experienced, knowledgeable, and credentialed.


Bingo, you hit the nail right on the head and made my point for me. The jist of my point is that NONE of us including myself are in a position to "know" such things, we can only surmise and guess so what is the point of that? It is useless so don't do it. 

Accept that all the major companies in the marketplace today have quality products (with a few exceptions that ALL manufacturers experience) and so don't bother worrying too much about this aspect. other factors such as your room, speakers, processing etc will have a much larger impact on the sound you hear and in everyday life are more relevant. that's my $.02

As for me, I don't have any specific credentials that would make me have any inside info for particular brands or models. I am a manufacturing engineer with more than thirty years of experience and have been responsible for major production projects for major international corporations in several parts of the world, overseeing many aspects. As an engineer we are trained to remove hyperbole and emotion, deal only with verifiable facts.


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## bambino

Shackmonster said:


> eugovector,
> 
> I wasn't making any assumptions however, I would disagree with your stated thinking. The average Joe can not get sufficient info from his/her own experience. The experience of others is second-hand info, not verified fact. How many pieces of equipment can a person or even a few people if you include friends own in a lifetime, perhaps 50, say it's even 100, that's not nearly enough to "know" anything about the quality of a particular manufacturer. These companies make tens of thousands of units maybe more in some cases and EVERY manufacturer has a hiccup now and then, that doesn't make them an unreliable brand/model. That is what a warranty is for.
> .


Sorry to step in here guys but i would consider myself an average joe with a lot of different knowledge based on personal experiance (i've been playing with these toys since i was a kid). I've been around it for so long and read so many topics and reviews even Forums that would and could make an average joe such as myself an expert (i'm not) but the info and relationships that i've had with different equipment would put an average joe (such as myself) ahead of someone with little experiance which is why this thread has been started. 
Just had to throw in a couple pennies for thought.


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## mdrake

> Bingo, you hit the nail right on the head and made my point for me. The jist of my point is that NONE of us including myself are in a position to "know" such things, we can only surmise and guess so what is the point of that? It is useless so don't do it.
> 
> Accept that all the major companies in the marketplace today have quality products (with a few exceptions that ALL manufacturers experience) and so don't bother worrying too much about this aspect. other factors such as your room, speakers, processing etc will have a much larger impact on the sound you hear and in everyday life are more relevant. that's my $.02
> 
> Read more: Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com - Reply to Topic ​


I believe that through combined experiences such as a forum like this you can get and idea of a particular products quality which is why forums such as HTS are so valuable. They combine the experiences of thousands of average joes and in my MHO can offer a much better look than one or two average joes can. 
Just my two cents... :T 

Matt


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## Shackmonster

bambino said:


> Sorry to step in here guys but i would consider myself an average joe with a lot of different knowledge based on personal experiance (i've been playing with these toys since i was a kid). I've been around it for so long and read so many topics and reviews even Forums that would and could make an average joe such as myself an expert (i'm not) but the info and relationships that i've had with different equipment would put an average joe (such as myself) ahead of someone with little experiance which is why this thread has been started.
> Just had to throw in a couple pennies for thought.


Bambino,

No need to be sorry please feel free to add your thoughts/comments at any time, all are welcome I would hope. It can only be helpful when more folks join in and add their experiences and thoughts.


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## Shackmonster

mdrake said:


> I believe that through combined experiences such as a forum like this you can get and idea of a particular products quality which is why forums such as HTS are so valuable. They combine the experiences of thousands of average joes and in my MHO can offer a much better look than one or two average joes can.
> Just my two cents... :T
> 
> Matt


mdrake,

I agree with you that the combined input of many people can be very helpful indeed. If there is some particular aspect of a given product then obtaining knowledge of that aspect may be of use. I would personally reserve judgment however of quality unless there is an overwhelming number of people with the same issue, and it is clear that the behavior is not what one would expect from a properly functioning device.

I discard comments like the difference was huge IMO etc as those are strictly personal opinions and emotional reactions. 

Thanks for your input and thoughts


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## lcaillo

Shackmonster said:


> Now if you work in the industry selling or repairing this gear for many years you might, I say might get some sort of an idea that a particular manufacturer has more issues/returns than the others and even that can change rapidly as ownership of the company changes or undergoes a management shakeup etc.
> 
> Any company that has constant quality issues will either have to shut down that line/brand or face going out of business. All the major consumer electronics names (Sony, Denon, Yamaha, Onkyo etc.) have been selling their products for quite some time so they can't be all that bad. You may have an opinion that a certain model or brand does not make/sell products that are any good however, I can tell you that a lot of other people would disagree with you.


I do work in the industry, having over thirty years of experience servicing consumer electronics for dealers that sell many of the products that we discuss here. While it is impossible to put numbers to failure rates, and products do vary within brands quite a bit, there are some trends that we see very clearly over time. There are also issues with support that are pretty easy to draw conclusions about. When we try to get parts or tech support for some brands, it is more or less effective or available than others. Some brands consciously buy market share by putting out high performance and feature laden products at lower pricing. That difference in cost has to come from somewhere. Usually it comes from cutting corners in production and from support. It may translate into a few percentage points of reliability or it may result in more "dogs" in their product line that have pervasive problems from time to time. Every manufacturer has them at times. Some more than others. Some products make a servicer cringe when they come through the door because we know it is unlikely that there will be good documentation or technical support available, or parts may be prohibitively priced.

The best advice that I can give a consumer is to get to know the people locally who are Authorized Service Centers (ASCs) for the brands you are considering. Ask them what they think of the products and what kinds of support, training, parts, and pricing they have experienced. Assume that everything is going to break and be prepared for it. Many people will never need service before they replace a product, but many will. It is better to be prepared, and better to have a good local service option if possible.


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## Shackmonster

lcaillo said:


> I do work in the industry, having over thrity years of experience servicing consumer electronics for dealers that sell many of the products that we discuss here. While it is impossible to put numbers to failure rates, and products do vary within brands quite a bit, there are some trends that we see very clearly over time. There aer also issues with support that are pretty easy to draw conclusions about. When we try to get parts or tech support for some brands, it is more or less effective or available than others. Some brands consciously buy market share by putting out high performance and feature laden products at lower pricing. That difference in cost has to come from somewhere. Usually it comes from cutting corners in production and from support. It may translate into a few percentage points of reliability or it may result in more "dogs" in their product line that have pervasive problems from time to time. Every manufacturer has them at times. Some more than others. Some products make a servicer cringe when they come through the door because we know it is unlikely that there will be good documentation or technical support available, or parts may be prohibitively priced.
> 
> The best advice that I can give a consumer is to get to know the people locally who are Authorized Service Centers (ASCs) for the brands you are considering. Ask them what they think of the products and what kinds of support, training, parts, and pricing they have experienced. Assume that everything is going to break and be prepared for it. Many people will never need service before they replace a product, but many will. It is better to be prepared, and better to have a good local service option if possible.


Electronics Tech,

Well thought out and well put, I completely agree with everything you stated. You are the type of person I was suggesting would have real insight as to the quality of a particular product line/model and/or brand. This type of unemotional approach is what separates the men from the boys. Thank you for your input.


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## tonyvdb

You have to remember also that the opinions of members on this forum can also be seriously taken into consideration. Many of us have been in the hobby of Home audio/Theater for many years and come with allot of user experience. 
In the end it simply boils down to what you like and if its sounds/looks good to you is that not what matters? Never just buy the first thing you see always ask questions and listen.


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## Andre

Everyone is different. My favorite story working in Audio retail was back in the early 80s. We had just put together in a sound room the best components we had in the store, Elipson speakers, Linn component...etc. We were listening to some Floyd and some pipe organ music when a fellow walked in and commented on how terrible the sound was.

20 mins later he had the biggest grin on his face as he listened to a pair of pizo tweetered tower KLHs that had been baking in the sun of our front display window since Christ was a carpenter. "Now that is what music should sound like" he said.

So I echo my friend Tony "listening" is the only way you will find Your audio nirvana. Forums and asking for opinions is only to narrow the field. The only caveat to that being if you live in an area where you simply Can't go listen to a wide variety of gear and are relegated to purchasing from the internet. Then you have to take peoples word of their experiences and "roll the bones", you might be happy or you may not.


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## Shackmonster

Andre said:


> Everyone is different. My favorite story working in Audio retail was back in the early 80s. We had just put together in a sound room the best components we had in the store, Elipson speakers, Linn component...etc. We were listening to some Floyd and some pipe organ music when a fellow walked in and commented on how terrible the sound was.
> 
> 20 mins later he had the biggest grin on his face as he listened to a pair of pizo tweetered tower KLHs that had been baking in the sun of our front display window since Christ was a carpenter. "Now that is what music should sound like" he said.
> 
> So I echo my friend Tony "listening" is the only way you will find Your audio nirvana. Forums and asking for opinions is only to narrow the field. The only caveat to that being if you live in an area where you simply Can't go listen to a wide variety of gear and are relegated to purchasing from the internet. Then you have to take peoples word of their experiences and "roll the bones", you might be happy or you may not.


Andre,

I couldn't agree more. I went into a high end shop where they started to demo some B&W speakers and I had to ask them to turn off the system as the sound actually made me physically uncomfortable it was so shrill. Most of the salespeople thought I was nuts but I didn't care. It's my ears and my money that have to be happy not some salesman. At least the manager understood this and worked to find something I would be happy with.

I am not saying it was the fault of those speakers per se, but it was something in that system or some combination that was really off to my ears, it actually hurt my ears to listen.


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## Andre

All that being said. If someone that was totally new asked me in this forum the question posed on this thread and he/she wanted what would be considered a reasonable quality sound system for 5.1 HT on a budget of 1k in a medium sized room, I would probably point them to some Yambeka speakers, a BIC sub from partsexpress and the rest towards an Onkyo receiver (highest on the food chain they could afford). Interconnects/speaker wire/HDMI cables etc.. look under wire and cable in the yellowpages and go buy speaker wire off the spool, and they probably have interconnects there. Same thing for HDMI just make sure it's certified 1.4 cat 2. Don't fall into the PT Barnum credo.

ALL this being said it is All my opinion, some will agree, others will call me a senile old fool. Ce la vie.

I respect people’s views and if they conflict with mine I can raise my hand and give my opinion, if they berate me for that I have no use for them and leave them to their soap box. A good conversation back and forth will mean one or both will learn something, even if you end up to agree to disagree. This is one of the reasons I like the shack, lots of knowledge, good people, good conversation.


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## Shackmonster

Andre said:


> All that being said. If someone that was totally new asked me in this forum the question posed on this thread and he/she wanted what would be considered a reasonable quality sound system for 5.1 HT on a budget of 1k in a medium sized room, I would probably point them to some Yambeka speakers, a BIC sub from partsexpress and the rest towards an Onkyo receiver (highest on the food chain they could afford). Interconnects/speaker wire/HDMI cables etc.. look under wire and cable in the yellowpages and go buy speaker wire off the spool, and they probably have interconnects there. Same thing for HDMI just make sure it's certified 1.4 cat 2. Don't fall into the PT Barnum credo.
> 
> ALL this being said it is All my opinion, some will agree, others will call me a senile old fool. Ce la vie.
> 
> I respect people’s views and if they conflict with mine I can raise my hand and give my opinion, if they berate me for that I have no use for them and leave them to their soap box. A good conversation back and forth will mean one or both will learn something, even if you end up to agree to disagree. This is one of the reasons I like the shack, lots of knowledge, good people, good conversation.


here here, I second that


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## tehguit

So i've been reading this wonderful argument and trying to learn as much as i can. I did a bit of a search but couldn't find any results though i'm POSITIVE other people have asked this.

Basically looking at my first PROPER 5.1 (maybe 2 subs?) system. Have a little pioneer all in one system at the moment, and you know... its fine for watching tv or movies on, but i mean the center speaker is wayy off center (seriously in a 6X6m (20ftX20ftish) room, the centre speaker is i kid you not, 1m away from the left speaker. Not particularly good for spatial imaging.

I'm looking to get a nice system as i'm moving houses soon, so the system has to be ideally one that isn't specific for the room. I'm actually a studio guy, so i appreciate audio quality (i'm putting mundorf supreme and silver in oil in some of my gear with riken resistors).

I'm happy to start small and move up, but here are the details you guys need for some help.

Basically i'd like a system that can shake the room, if i'm watching i movie i want to feel an explosion, if i'm listening to music i want to feel the kick drum, obviously i'd have to have it up pretty loud for this, so i'd like to be able to do this if possible.

Initial budget is under $2000 (i'm from Australia so i'd have to source things locally which means big mark-ups... yay....) And i'm happy to start with a receiver and two speakers. Then get a sub and centers and rears later on progressibely. So yeah any suggestions would be awesome. 
I haven't looked into speakers recently and they seem to be getting smaller and smaller... when i got into it years back, a good speaker was 4X2ft to get some decent volume out... that being said i have a set of yamaha ns-10s running of a modified and upgrade adcom GFA-555 (original) that can rip your head off.

But yeah, any help is more than welcome. I know this looks like a newbie post but i was over at the pro audio shack before so hey.


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## GranteedEV

> (i'm putting mundorf supreme and silver in oil in some of my gear with riken resistors).


My Snake oil sensor just exploded from reading that. Unbelievable!!



> Basically i'd like a system that can shake the room, if i'm watching i movie i want to feel an explosion, if i'm listening to music i want to feel the kick drum, obviously i'd have to have it up pretty loud for this, so i'd like to be able to do this if possible.
> 
> Initial budget is under $2000 (i'm from Australia so i'd have to source things locally which means big mark-ups... yay....) And i'm happy to start with a receiver and two speakers. Then get a sub and centers and rears later on progressibely. So yeah any suggestions would be awesome.


Whoa, australia!? I don't know what to recommend for a receiver way over there! For speakers though, based on your comfort level with messing around with stuff what I recommend is probably this... it'll do those kick drums tons of justice by starting here.. singapore ain't too far is it?.. or here 
and then finding MDF locally. I hope wood markup isn't too extreme.


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## eugovector

Your basic pieces will be:
A/V receiver
5 speakers
Subwoofer

If you want to shake the room, you want 1 or 2 good subs. Take a read for this thread and let us know if you have any specific questions by starting a separate thread.


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## tehguit

> My Snake oil sensor just exploded from reading that. Unbelievable!!



Surprisingly i've heard a pultec made with the mundorfs vs the wimas and the munforfs do actually sound better! I'll probably just stick with supreme's over silver in oil, see how i'm feeling and how my wallet is feeling. But could be a psychological thing... but hey

And the caps in that speaker design aren't much cheaper 

Receiver wise, i haven't done heaps of searching but we have heaps of yamaha and onkyo, i'd be happy to order online, just gotta make sure that i can run it off 240v you know?


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## GranteedEV

I also recommend going DIY for subs. A rythmik 15 servo kit or two maybe


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## tehguit

Made a thread so this doesn't get cluttered! Thanks for your help so far!


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## CindyWan

his is just what I have been looking for!

Thank you very much.


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## Beefy Hits

I'm new to the forums, and new to HD/Home theatres in general.

I'm a gamer with the 360, PS3, and Wii and am working on our 500 sq. ft. basement and am looking to get my first home theatre and looked to this thread as a starting point. 

My only real experience with home theatre previously was in college with an AIWA shelf system. For the past 10 years, I've just been using my SDTV and no speakers.

I want something that will last me 10-15 years, and am looking for a 5.1 system.

My budget is about $800-1000. Is it better to buy online, or are there any in store deals to be had? I'm not a fan of Big box stores with their snooty sales reps.


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## tonyvdb

Welcome to the shack, On line is a great way to get deals but with Christmas just around the corner there are deals to be had at the big box stores as well. 
Accessories4less is a great place to fine deals as well. If your looking for speakers and a receiver for that price then this receiver would be very good. For speakers the Behringer 2030p would be good (do a search to find the best on line price) and a sub the ED A3S is a good start. For the surround channels use some speakers you have laying around for now.


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## Andre

Hello Beef:

For that kind of money I would look at the Yambeka speaker package ($380) there is a review of them on this site. Use you PS3 for your Bluray. 

Receiver Onkyo TX-NR708 ($490) http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html


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## tonyvdb

Andre said:


> Receiver Onkyo TX-NR708 ($490) http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html


The Onkyo 807 I linked to is only $399 so a much better deal for a better receiver. But the Yambeka's are also a good option but no sub.


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## Andre

That is a matter of opinion Sir

the 807 is older but more powerful, the 708 is newer and more futureproof (the gentleman is looking for a system to last 10 years +)

As for a sub considering the price restrictions I would look at a Dayton

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=300-635


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## Beefy Hits

Read Don Lindich's Sound advice blog and found the Pioneer VSX-1019AH-K for $299 at Amazon to be a great deal and picked it up.

It'll be a few weeks before I set it up and get speakers for it, but it's a start. One of the tipping points for me was the Ipod dock connector. 

Read Consumer Reports about LCDs and Plasmas, and it looks like Panasonic Plasma is the way to go with those. Do 60 and 120 Hrz make a difference for gaming? Should I look for 120Hrz? I'm thinking of when I'm playing Rock Band 3 I'd have to calibrate for 60Hrz maybe. Or is that problem non-existant now?

Sorry if that might be in the wrong thread.


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## mattphelps

tonyvdb said:


> Sony is not a maker of good quality receivers. Lots of quality issues and way over rated.


I do have a sony receiver a long time ago and it did gave me pleasure to my standards but I may have not known other standards since I did not have other receivers to try though. But my Sony receiver did not fail until I had to sell them since I am moving out.

Now I am looking for what is best.


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## Shackmonster

Hi and welcome to the forum. As others have mentioned previously, a little more information would allow us to give more accurate and reasonable recommendations. For example, do you have a display or will that purchase be within your stated budget? How much light is in the room? I have also mentioned in the past that my recommendations is not to give up quality due to current budget restraints. Get your system bit by bit but buy good quality at each step.


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## tonyvdb

Shackmonster is correct, You will get the most enjoyment of your system if you buy your system piece by piece instead of all at once. Spending more on one item than all at once will give you a setup that will last you years.


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## gdstupak

Beefy Hits said:


> Do 60 and 120 Hrz make a difference for gaming? Should I look for 120Hrz?


LCD's are getting better all the time and if you spend enough money you can get a good one. Plasmas generally have better video quality.
When recommending audio/video gear I usually don't say that a certain brand is better than another. Usually if you are looking at several items that are in the same price range, they will have similar quality but each will have there own characteristic (i.e. looking at a Panasonic and a Vizio, each being a 50" plasma at $2000, each will probably be similar in quality but each will look different (the Panasonic may push green more, the Vizio may push red more); but if you look at a Panasonic that is $2000 and a Vizio that is $1000 the more expensive Panasonic will probably be better). I'm not saying to just go buy the more expensive item, I'm saying to find out why one costs more than another, do research.
Yes, 120hz should be better than 60hz, but you can't just look at the stats on the box and believe them. Especially contrast ratio. They twist all those numbers to their favor. Do research reading many professional reviews from magazines.


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## tonyvdb

You do not want to buy a plasma if your are going to do a fair bit of gaming on it. Plasma is susceptible to burn in and any images that stay on the screen in one spot for a long time will burn in.


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## Shackmonster

I agree with gdstupak and tonyvdb, however I would also add that I would not worry about burn-in with newer plasma sets as they have circuits to prevent the problem, do your research.


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## tonyvdb

Shackmonster said:


> I would not worry about burn-in with newer plasma sets as they have circuits to prevent the problem, do your research.


Unfortunately thats not true, I have a friend who bought a Panasonic Plasma because he was told that by the sales person and it has the anti burn-in feature (pixel shift) but he still has the TLC logo burnt into his display its very noticeable on a white background.


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## gdstupak

The reviewers I've read say that burn-in shouldn't be a problem with normal viewing with a good quality set.
I've also read that the first 100-200hrs are the most susceptible to burn-in, so no static images at first. Then it should be fine. 
Gamers would probably have to be more cautious (maybe reduce the brightness/contrast even more during game play?).
Even if I were a gamer, I would still buy a plasma. How much of a gamer are you? 

tonyvdb:
if your friends set only had 'TLC' burnt-in I would say they had it on that channel on torch mode a very long time during the break-in period of the set. 
I say this because why only 'TLC' and nothing else?


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## tonyvdb

gdstupak said:


> tonyvdb:
> if your friends set only had 'TLC' burnt-in I would say they had it on that channel on torch mode a very long time during the break-in period of the set.
> I say this because why only 'TLC' and nothing else?


I personally went over and helped him set it up and calibrate it using AVIA. It was not in torch mode and he watches all sorts of different things including gaming on it The TLC logo is just the most noticeable there are other faint ones but cant really make them out. He watches allot of programming on TLC so why should a person avoid watching what they want due to a limitation of a display technology thats not the point when you buy a TV is it?
Plasma is a good display but be warned that burn in IS an issue no matter what anyone tells you.


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## Shackmonster

That's why I said do your homework, not every plasma has the circuit to protect against burn-in but I agree your friend must have not been paying attention or maybe they turned this feature off? I don't think TV stations would broadcast a static image for such a period of time as to potentially damage viewers displays, they would be open to lawsuits. My guess is there is some other cause behind your friends set. I have not seen burn-in for a very long time, not even on sets in public places like airports etc.


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## tonyvdb

Shackmonster said:


> I have not seen burn-in for a very long time, not even on sets in public places like airports etc.


Those are all LCD displays (they do not have burn in issues) Plasma draws far to much power and is not cost effective in applications like that.


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## Shackmonster

No they are not, they are plasma displays I am talking about. LCD displays are not good for that application as you can't see the image clearly from off angles


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## Fuus

Hi all,

I'm moving to new place and finally have some space to
start building HT setup (small living room).

I read some posts here and decided that I'm going to stay 
away from HTIB's and becouse of budget limitations I will 
build my setup slowly starting with 2 speaker system and
upgrade it towards 5.1.

Now I would appreciate some opinions about what to get.
Usage Movies/Music, 80/20

Here's something I've found:
*Amp:*
Yamaha RX-V567 - 270 euros

*Speakers:*
Tannoy Mercury V1 - 200 euros / pair
Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 - 225eur / pair

Wharfedale Diamond 9.4 - 250eur / pair


What do you think about these choices? Any good?

My budget is small for this first phase (below 600 euros) 
and maybe in 6 months I'll add something or sooner if I 
find some decent used speakers.


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## tonyvdb

Both Tannoy and Warfdale make quality speakers I would go with the ones that have the largest cabinate and drivers as in most casses they will give you the "largest" sound. The yamaha will do just fine and is a great receiver for the money.
You are on the right track as far as building a system.


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## Fuus

Thanks for your input.

This thread (and "before buying HTIB.." thread) had very much good information but I hoped that there would be more recommended setups.. I'm totally new to HiFi stuff and when looking at different speaker it's impossible to say which brands are worth the money. There's also limitations on what you can find locally and becouse of that larger selection of known good setups would be nice.

I was thinking that thread where would be just system recommendations would be nice and give good insight to what kind of systems are worth the money.

Maybe with sample 'recommendation request form' where you fill in specifications needed to recommend setup.


> *Information needed for system recommendation:*
> *Budget:
> Room size:
> Usage (Movies/Music):
> Additional Info:*
> etc. etc.


...and after getting some recommendations original poster could edit recommended systems to his first post.


> *Recommended Setups*
> *Amp:*
> - Yamaha XXX
> - Onkyo XXX
> 
> *Front Speakers:*
> - Tannoy xxx
> - B&W xxx
> ...
> _Recommended by: User Xxx, User Xxx_


This way there would be database coming up based on different room specs, budget, etc..


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## tonyvdb

Its very hard to do a recomendation thread dedicated to what you have given, everyones budget is different and so are priorities. We can give general lists but its allot tougher than it looks. As it is the info here is getting outdated and I need to update it soon.
You might be better off asking this question in your own thread, include a budget and what is available to you. We have a number of members from over in your area that could help you better than I can from here.


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## Fuus

tonyvdb said:


> Its very hard to do a recomendation thread dedicated to what you have given, everyones budget is different and so are priorities. We can give general lists but its allot tougher than it looks. As it is the info here is getting outdated and I need to update it soon.
> You might be better off asking this question in your own thread, include a budget and what is available to you. We have a number of members from over in your area that could help you better than I can from here.


Yeah, I understand..

I was thinking about big picture not just this particular case. I noticed that there's lot of people asking for system recommendations and first there's one page of posts asking for more info. So I was thinking that some kind of guide lines to 'What should I include when I need recommendations' would be good.


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## tonyvdb

It is always best to buy better and less than it is to buy all at once. Start with a good receiver, as its the heart of the system use some speakers you have laying around untill you can afford to by better ones and so on. 
You will end up with a much more satisfying system in the end.


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## Fuus

That's what I had in mind. I thought that for now I'm trying to get some speakers for front and use existing speakers from mini hifi system as surround speakers..


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## tonyvdb

Thats a good plan! Its taken me years to get my system to where I have it now and as with all technology it keeps eveolving and needs upgrading from time to time but You get to a point that you say that its good enough.
Speakers are one item that if you buy something good now you will be able to use them for many many years.


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## harckan

Thank's for all posts, this is very important for me.

Regard


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## jazboy

Well i was looking for starting article. Here its. Thanks for this. After reading this at least i know some thing.


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## Twin_Rotor

tonyvdb said:


> .......
> 
> You want a receiver that has at the very least High Definition Media Interface (HDMI) pass-through meaning that what ever is sent over HDMI is passed through the receiver without any processing or upconversion. You want the newest uncompressed audio formats Dolby TruHD and DTS Master audio decoding. Some sort of auto room correction is also a must have like Audessey MMAC or YAPO this corrects your sound through the speakers by EQing everything and adjusting for room delay (I wont get into to much detail here).
> There are many manufacturers of receivers and this can get very confusing, The big players in this price range are (in no particular order) Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo, Marantz and Pioneer. They all have there pros and cons my personal favorite is* Onkyo only because they seem to have the best options and features for the money *in the past 3 years.
> 
> ......


Is this still the trend?


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## tonyvdb

Yes, Onkyo still has the best bang for buck receiver out there.


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## Twin_Rotor

I'm going to be a newb and ask a question, rather than reading through this thread 

Can you suggest any receiver that is bare minimum for DTS-HD/True-HD? What I mean by that is: I only have two HDMI sources and do not need multiroom or any other obtuse features. I'm also a believer of Murphy's Law


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## tonyvdb

I highly recommend the Onkyo 609 from Accessories4less You cant go wrong for the price. or even better the Onkyo 709.


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## Twin_Rotor

Do they have a 509? J/K I'll do some leg work.. I do like that 609, but I'll never use/need all the inputs. 

Thanks for the input, and keep an eye out for Murphy's reciever  I've already looked for a HD decoder, but prices are rediculous(I have 4 older recievers with 5.1 inputs)

EDIT: I found the 509 lol..


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## tonyvdb

with the 609 or any good quality receiver you will get at least 4 HDMI inputs. You may not use every feature but what you get is a strong amplification section and a very good video processor. Its a win win for you or anyone looking at a budget receiver thats still looking for quality.


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## Twin_Rotor

I see that, now that I'm looking around. For $80 more, I'd have the 609 over the 509(at your provided website). Guess I'll bite the $300 bullet... Get out my jaws of life for my wallet..


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## gdstupak

With AVR's, quality and features go hand-in-hand. As the quality increases, so does the number of obtuse features.
If you want only a few HDMI inputs, and the bare bones features, then usually the rest of the AVR (amp, processor sections) is going to be lower quality.
I agree that going with refurbished, b-stock high quality AVR's is the way to go, wish I had done that.


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## CarinaTan

Anybody had try Home Theater Design before?
I'm considering if i should engage them, i need more feed backs and suggestions.


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## ta75050

Hello Experts:
I am a total newbie and looking to put together a basic plus HT for my new home. Here are my specific requirements. Right now, I dont have anything ( no tv, no blue ray etc)

1. within $2000 ( tv not counted in this amount)
2. room dimension 14x15
3. have two step seating (just like theatre). first row person is around 6-7 ft from TV wall.
4. I prefer TV instead of projector & screen.
5. I prefer speakers that I can put on the wall ( not inside). Something small to medium size.
6. prefer 5.1 system as my room is small.
7. I have a small equipment closet outside the media room to keep all equipment.
8. my HT will be more for movies either thru blue ray player or netflix, amazon etc.

So in need suggestions as to:
1. what tv size appropriate for my size room. Pls suggest specific brands
2. what speakers, receiver, sub-woofers, pls suggest specific brands and what place to buy ( in usa). I am bsed in dallas, TX.
3. Any other suggestions that you think can help me bring $ down.

Read more: Need suggestions for home theatre around $2000 with specific requirements. - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


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## wayne.xingle

It looks not easy and cheap to get a satisfying decent sound. have to reconsider my system. Thanks a lot


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