# How not to localize the Center Speaker



## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

Hi,

I have a 5.1 setup with my front L+R and Center speaker all at the same distance from my listen position but the Center is sitting lower to the floor (under the screen) than my L+R tower speakers. I have the speaker angled/aimed at ear height at my listen position, but I am still able to pick out the center speaker with dialogues. 

Are there any other things that I can try to have the Center speaker blend in better with L+R ?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Are all channels level matched? I would lower the center ch level so it doesn't stand out as much against the L/R. Can you raise the display and centre in the future? What is the display?


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## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

I cannot move the display, it is an 100 inch screen fixed to the wall that takes up most of the wall space. 

All channels are level matched, general and per audio codec. I don't know if this also takes the boosted Center level (The +X dB in the Center Channel) into account per codec or if this is something that differs per movie ?


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## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

How about putting the Front speakers closer together? I haven't done this because I like my 2 channel stereo image the way it is now.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Primare Knob said:


> I have the speaker angled/aimed at ear height at my listen position, but I am still able to pick out the center speaker with dialogues.
> 
> Are there any other things that I can try to have the Center speaker blend in better with L+R ?


I don’t understand. The problem is that you _can _hear the dialogue? IOW, you don’t _want _to hear the dialogue?

Regards, 
Wayne


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

As I understood him Wayne, his center channel is fairly close to the floor whereas his L/R are towers, creating a localization issue by way of the height difference of his tweeters and Mids. 
Primare, how far apart are your mains? Your suggestion could work. If I were to try that, I'd spend lots of time playing with toe in. If you bring the mains closer together, they might blend better with the center, in which case you might use a wider toe angle. (Slight increase). This will expand soundstage a lot but too much will collapse imaging in 2ch playback. In my case, I use a laser pointer jig that I made to have my tweeters line up about 4'behind the LP.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

willis7469 said:


> As I understood him Wayne, his center channel is fairly close to the floor whereas his L/R are towers, creating a localization issue by way of the height difference of his tweeters and Mids.


Ah, I see. My center channel is the same way, but it didn’t take me long to get used to it. Once I get engrossed in the program I don’t even notice it. If it isn’t that way with the OP, I’m sure there’s no fixing the problem.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

I moved my front speakers closer together which resulted in a more accurate and pinpointed dialogue when there was a blend between center and front speaker output. But a lot of the dialogue is center channel only. Moving the speakers did sort out some Bass problem that I was having, so that is a nice result.

Is there a way to mix more of the center channel output with the fronts? Or is this all hard coded into the movie soundtrack? I read somewhere about virtually lifting the center channel, but I am not sure where or how to do this.


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## littlejohn74 (Feb 11, 2014)

Does your amp have the ability to drive 2 centre speakers? How about one above and one below the screen?
Both angled towards ear level.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Good start! To my knowledge, the only way to blend is in PLII music mode. It allows you to set the "width" of center channel info by sending some of it to the sides. I wouldn't recommend listening in PLII music for movies. Another option is "phantom center ". Tell your avr that there is NOT a center speaker, and it creates one with your mains. (You might have to tell it to. Not sure)Obviously this becomes problematic when you move off axis, but if you only need to cover the main LP it might work. I've tried it just to see, and it can be quite convincing. Others here use it all the time. Maybe they could share experiences.


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## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

Good one, I haven't thought of doing that. I'll give that a try and do a test run, once I have my AVR back. It is to bad that you can't do a blend like you can with the LFE channel.


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## jefferytammy (Sep 30, 2012)

What I did was installed two front channels. 
One of them is a regular 4 speaker mono speaker above the tv. The other is an amplified soundbar below the tv. The sound bar is recieving the same signal using a line in to rca low. 
This setup mixed the sound beautifully so that the sound seems to be coming from the screen.


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## Primare Knob (Dec 4, 2014)

jefferytammy said:


> What I did was installed two front channels.
> One of them is a regular 4 speaker mono speaker above the tv. The other is an amplified soundbar below the tv. The sound bar is recieving the same signal using a line in to rca low.
> This setup mixed the sound beautifully so that the sound seems to be coming from the screen.


I have an 100 inch screen so that is going to be hard. I found an option inside JRiver about blending the center with the fronts. Haven't tried it yet. The other thing I might try in the future is mixing channels with a pro audio card.


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