# Ellis Family Retirement HT: Go big or go home



## NBPk402

In about a month I plan on breaking ground on starting to convert our 2 car garage to a dedicated home theater. The garage is already dry walled and we will be ripping out the drywall on the walls and ceiling to see what we have to work with. The garage is 23' 4" long, 19' wide with a 9' ceiling. We have a door on the backside of the garage that leads out to our pond, a water heater, and furnace are in the wall right next to the door, and these need to be taken into consideration for the dimensions of the theater.

We will be extending the front of the garage out 5' to enclose our front channel speakers (3 La Scalas (heavily modified) , 2 Heresy HIPs and 1 of 2 Danley DTS-10 subs).. The goal is to hit 115db @ 10hz with a low power amp. I am trying to cut down our electricity bill as much as possible so a friend of mine is building me a 10 channel "D" class chip amp that will put out no more than 30wpc... Since all my speakers are 98 db or greater efficiency I figure this should be more than enough power to listen at reference levels.

The walls will be built as a double 2x4 wall with fiberglass insulation, OSB, and 2-3 layers of sheet rock with green glue. The ceiling will be 2 layers of sheet rock and maybe OSB if the ceiling can support the added weight of the OSB. Making the room as quiet as possible is a must as it is right below our Master Bedroom and I like to watch movies late at night.

We will be running 12 gauge Monoprice cable in conduit for all 9 channels. We are using Monoprice Redmere cables for all HDMI. The equipment rack location will be on the same wall as the Heater and water heater.

Are the room dimensions good for a HT or could they be reduced in some areas to get a better setup?

I will try and get some drawings up so this setup will make more sense. Any suggestions are welcome as I want to do this right the first time.

Parts list:
USB electrical outlets for power recliners
5/8" drywall (2 layers)
Green Glue 5 gallon buckets

Specs:
walls 24" on center


Finished pics...













Looking from the HT to the pond entrance.


Looking from the HT entrance to the Skimmer.


Entrance to the HT.



Here you can see the door.



New seats. (have been moved to the front row)


We now have our HT door sign temp mounted (it will be flush mounted soon). I also have a Panamorph UH-480 lense arriving next week. I am hoping I can get more brightness, and not have to worry about changing aspect ratios in some movies.


Daytime...



Night time (color is different as it is set to randomly change the LED colors)...


----------



## Savjac

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

That sounds wonderful, I hope you can keep us updated with photos and airplane tickets. 
Oh and if you need a nice safe home for the Klipsch, my hand is in the air !!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



Savjac said:


> That sounds wonderful, I hope you can keep us updated with photos and airplane tickets.
> Oh and if you need a nice safe home for the Klipsch, my hand is in the air !!


I shopped very carefully and I only have $900 invested in 3 La Scalas, $500 for 2 Heresy HIPs, $800 for 2 KP3002, and 2 HPS SR70s (I have 2 more HIPs lined up for another $500). I am currently modding the La Scalas with Faital horns, drivers and Bob Crites crossovers... Cabinets have had the top portion cut off so the horn and crossover will be visible from the top, and sides with the horn to suspended from the top of the bass bin.


----------



## Savjac

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have been wanting a nice set of Klipsch, there are days when I just want to be engulfed by the power and the glory of a speaker that can change on a dime and provide the needed air movement to make me smile. I have heard a good number of the heritage series but not a Heresy, but I did hear a less stunning set at a friends home the other day, KLF-10's and while they had some issues, the feel of music pouring over me is unforgettable. I have not found any for sale near me, but maybe one day....maybe even the KLF-30's...or well who knows what will come up. 

Hope you enjoy !!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



Savjac said:


> I have been wanting a nice set of Klipsch, there are days when I just want to be engulfed by the power and the glory of a speaker that can change on a dime and provide the needed air movement to make me smile. I have heard a good number of the heritage series but not a Heresy, but I did hear a less stunning set at a friends home the other day, KLF-10's and while they had some issues, the feel of music pouring over me is unforgettable. I have not found any for sale near me, but maybe one day....maybe even the KLF-30's...or well who knows what will come up.
> 
> Hope you enjoy !!



99% of the time I am not even using 1wpch to watch movies and they are sounding great!
I am assuming these are not close enough for you... http://stlouis.craigslist.org/ele/4290837735.html


----------



## Savjac

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Wow Ron, how did you find those so fast ??
I have never used craigslist, good to know and yes St. Louis is an hour and a half from me, not too far at all.
I will send a message now.

Thank You


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



Savjac said:


> Wow Ron, how did you find those so fast ??
> I have never used craigslist, good to know and yes St. Louis is an hour and a half from me, not too far at all.
> I will send a message now.
> 
> Thank You


They were posted earlier today in another forum... When you mentioned it I grabbed the link. They appear to be a steal.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Ron,

I would take a close look at Sonnie's entryway setup - his is designed much the same way you are explaining. If you can manage the same double door configuration, I would do that too - it really makes a difference in my opinion.


----------



## phillihp23

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Sounds like someone has lined up some work to do in the coming months. Look forward to watching the build come together.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> Ron,
> 
> I would take a close look at Sonnie's entryway setup - his is designed much the same way you are explaining. If you can manage the same double door configuration, I would do that too - it really makes a difference in my opinion.


Thanks, will do. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I looked at Sonnies hallway, and it is like I was planning... I am not sure if I can also put a double door into the theater though. If I can I definitely will though. :T


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I wouldn't worry about splaying the walls. By the time you address the other items in the garage, you'd be making the front of the theater very very narrow.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Bryan - would a layer of OSB and then 3 layers of drywall be overkill? I was thinking it might not be worth the cost, but I was not completely sure. I have heard and seen doing 2 layers, but never 3...


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

So 4 layers overall? Well, that would certainly be a ton of mass but not sure the ceiling would tolerate that kind of weight - not to mention making outlets, doors, etc. fun...


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> So 4 layers overall? Well, that would certainly be a ton of mass but not sure the ceiling would tolerate that kind of weight - not to mention making outlets, doors, etc. fun...


There will only be one door leading into the theater, so I was thinking of one door per 2x4 wall (double 2x4 wall). Would 3 layers of sheet rock plus OSB be too much for the walls? What should I do about the ceiling?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

OSB plus 2 layers with Green Glue woud be about the max I would do on any single wall. Think you're firmly in diminishing returns territory. Ceiling with appropriate clips and channel can support 3 layers of drywall.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> OSB plus 2 layers with Green Glue woud be about the max I would do on any single wall. Think you're firmly in diminishing returns territory. Ceiling with appropriate clips and channel can support 3 layers of drywall.


Should I do that on both sides of the hall way wall that we are making as a double stud?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

If you want but not really sure you need ALL of that. Maybe just double on the outer portion.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> If you want but not really sure you need ALL of that. Maybe just double on the outer portion.


Theater side... OSB, sheet rock, sheet rock with green glue
Hall side Sheet rock only or OSB and sheet rock?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Up to you - 2 layers of something with GG between them. The only reason people use OSB is to always have a mounting point if they want to hang something.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> Up to you - 2 layers of something with GG between them. The only reason people use OSB is to always have a mounting point if they want to hang something.


So 2 layers of sheet rock on each side of the wall with green glue should be all I need... No OSB unless I want to hang something, or did you just mean for the hallway side?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Either - up to you. I'm saying 2 is good on the hall side - both being drywall unless you want to hang something. On the inside, 3 layers with 2 layers of GG is a definite improvement in isolation - can make 1 layer OSB if desired.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Normally when you seal electrical boxes it is sealed from the rear correct? Does anyone make a box that you could use and seal it from the front? I ask this because if we make a second wall next to the existing wall I will only have a inch or 2 to access the electrical boxes.


----------



## cavchameleon

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Nice - subscribed!! Looking forward to this build. Someday I'm hoping to turn our 2-car garage into our dedicated media room. I'll be nice to see you build and challenges. Please keep us posted during this build and share what works and how to over come obstacles (which come with any challenge like you are undertaking).

Congrats by the way on the equipment and the opportunity to do this!


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Build an MDF box that attaches to the studs and the face will be flush with the drywall.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> Build an MDF box that attaches to the studs and the face will be flush with the drywall.


Do I make this box to replace the standard outlet box or is it made so the electrical box fits inside it?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

electrical box fits inside. Just 1 hole in the MDF box for the romex, then caulk that


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> electrical box fits inside. Just 1 hole in the MDF box for the romex, then caulk that


Thanks for the help... i don't want to sound stupid, but I want to make sure I understand everything correctly rather than half understanding and doing it wrong. :T


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Not a problem at all. I'd rather have you do it right too.


----------



## hjones4841

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I shopped very carefully and I only have $900 invested in 3 La Scalas, $500 for 2 Heresy HIPs, $800 for 2 KP3002, and 2 HPS SR70s (I have 2 more HIPs lined up for another $500). I am currently modding the La Scalas with Faital horns, drivers and Bob Crites crossovers... Cabinets have had the top portion cut off so the horn and crossover will be visible from the top, and sides with the horn to suspended from the top of the bass bin.


If possible, stay within the Heritage line for all channels so that the voicing will be similar. Surround effects, especially front to back pans, will be much smoother if you can. I have 4 K'horns, 1 Belle and 6 Heresys in an 11.2 Audyssey DSX setup and at "full tilt" it is absolutely amazing.

With the speed of the horn speakers, you really need to stay with either IB or sealed subs. I had the dream of doing an IB, but really did not have the space to do it, so I went with sealed Hsu ULS-15 sealed subs. Very tight bass and a good match for the horns.

I have not put in the Crites crossovers; let me know how it comes out. A friend put Crites crossovers in a pair of Cornwalls and really was not that impressed. I probably should put them in at least the fronts.

And congrats on being retired - I did that 2 years ago; ain't it great?:clap:


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



hjones4841 said:


> If possible, stay within the Heritage line for all channels so that the voicing will be similar. Surround effects, especially front to back pans, will be much smoother if you can. I have 4 K'horns, 1 Belle and 6 Heresys in an 11.2 Audyssey DSX setup and at "full tilt" it is absolutely amazing.
> 
> With the speed of the horn speakers, you really need to stay with either IB or sealed subs. I had the dream of doing an IB, but really did not have the space to do it, so I went with sealed Hsu ULS-15 sealed subs. Very tight bass and a good match for the horns.
> 
> I have not put in the Crites crossovers; let me know how it comes out. A friend put Crites crossovers in a pair of Cornwalls and really was not that impressed. I probably should put them in at least the fronts.
> 
> And congrats on being retired - I did that 2 years ago; ain't it great?:clap:


The reason I went with Bobs crossovers is... I am making the La Scalas into 2 ways. I purchased some Faital horns, drivers (2 of the horns from the same guy I bought my KP3002s, and HPS SR70s from), and some Klipsch "A" crossovers. The horns are the same ones Bob uses in his Cornscalas. Currently I have the top section removed from one of my La Scalas and I am reinforcing the bass bins. I purchased 1/2" Birch Plywood and wrapped the entire bass bin in it. I also flipped the bass bin upside down and made some feet for them. I have some rings that are made of MDF that I will be using for the horns. I still need to find the hardware for suspending the horns above the bass bin to bring the horn up to ear level. Once I have one done I will be converting the other 2 La Scalas. The KP3002s are supposedly similarly voiced to my La Scalas, but we will see how they are with the new horns. The HPS SR70s are a clone of the Heresy that is used for commercial theaters. If I am not satisfied with the sound of the Faital horns and drivers my next step will be to get the K510 horns or go big to the K402 Jubilee horns (I really don't want to go that big though. The KP3002 will be for my front width channels because I could not fit a pair of La Scalas in that position. The Heresy Industrial HIPs are currently being used as my surrounds but they will move to my height channels in the new theater.

I actually stopped working almost 3 years ago and have been fighting for my retirement and we just won this last December. I hope to start getting my back pay in the next few months along with a monthly check.

Since I am listening to movies 90% of the time and using Audyssey I have not been able to hear a difference in the speakers. Now you may be asking why the mods then... I am modding the speakers so I can use 2 of them for serious listening when I want to listen to music at its best. I needed to do all 3 to try and get the main 3 voiced as close as possible.

I came up with another idea today which could allow me to run more subs but I am not sure I want to do it... The idea is...
The proposed hallway will be running right next to the side of the house and our first floor has a crawl space. If I tapped into that I would have at least 5000cf more space for the IB setup. Problem is I am not sure if I want to have the bass traveling through out the house.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Ron, I just realized who you are. Good to see another Klispcher over here. Subscribed to follow your build. One thing I will say about these Theater rooms, is it seems to be 85% or more designing and trying things that actually work rather then actually building. I think if we could all have a very simple concept we could just build it and be down in a couple of weeks. But it sounds like we all want the most we can get out of our space which forces us to push the envelope. I love it, can't wait to see how yours turns out.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Ron, I just realized who you are. Good to see another Klispcher over here. Subscribed to follow your build. One thing I will say about these Theater rooms, is it seems to be 85% or more designing and trying things that actually work rather then actually building. I think if we could all have a very simple concept we could just build it and be down in a couple of weeks. But it sounds like we all want the most we can get out of our space which forces us to push the envelope. I love it, can't wait to see how yours turns out.


Nice to see you over here too. :T

Well I keep looking at the IB setups and then the TubaHD and the THSPUD and I am unsure of which way to go. The TubaHD and THSPUD both look very easy to build and look like I can get the output I want with little power and inexpensively (If I build them). In March I am heading over to hear a setup that has some THSPUDs... I will definitely decide once I hear some.


----------



## hjones4841

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Problem is I am not sure if I want to have the bass traveling through out the house.


A very valid concern. Your neighbors may complain also unless you are very far away from them.

I am familiar with the industrial Heresys. A number of years ago I put together a sound system to ship to a missionary in Africa. I think it was seized by the local government a few days after he received it. Maybe I should have bought the Bose industrials instead. If they happened to know about audio they would not have stolen the Bose!


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

If I had a space I could use, I would give the IB a try. Then again I am not worried about sound traveling through the house. Since I don't have a lot of space for a big foot print sub, I am going to build a couple of thspud's myself. Good luck with your decision I know its tough to make sometimes.


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Another option if you want some nice quick subs is Rythmik. They have servo controlled sealed subs that are fast enough to keep up with Magnepans.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Well I will be getting 2 DTS-10 subs for the theater to replace the Triax since I will need more subs for the room, and I can't afford to buy another Triax plus I am trying to conserve electricity so this setup will be more efficient and use smaller amps to do the job.

I did a rough draft of what I think the layout will be...


11.2 setup, and all the speakers are shown in their proposed locations except for the height channels.

The speakers will be as follows:
Klipsch La Scalas for L+C+R
Klipsch Heresy Industrials HIPs for Heights
Klipsch Pro KP3002 for width
Klipsch Heresy Industrial HIPs for side surrounds
SR-70s for rear surrounds

The Theater is 23' long , 15' wide, with a 8' ceiling
The main listening position is 13' from the screen which is just over 11' wide, and will go floor to ceiling with black AT fabric panels to frame it out.

The area behind the screen is 5'x19', and has all the front channels (5), and the 2 subs plus the equipment rack. This room will be accessed through a access panel in the hallway due to stairs being built in the hallway to enter the house.

The wall on the left will be built for a hallway that will lead to our pond and also to the house... All the doors will be solid core doors plus there will be a solid core door leading into the theater.

The back row will be 4' from the rear wall, and all seats will be power recliners from Costco which are designed to be flush with the wall and scoot forward when reclining. I have left 6' spacing between the 1st and 2nd row for walking. The seats when fully reclined take 5' but I don't anticipate anyone fully reclining while watching a movie... If they do it will be tight to get around them.

The left and right speakers are at 40 degrees from the main listening position.

The width channels are at 60 degrees (the drawing is wrong).

The side surrounds are at 132 degrees, and the rears are centered on the room 5' apart (inside edge to inside edge)

The wall to the left will be a 2x6 staggered stud wall. All the other walls will have a 2nd 2x4 single wall added or a 2x6 staggered wall flush to the current finished wall. 
The hallway is being built to: 
1. Conceal the water heater and furnace
2. To provide a air cavity to improve noise isolation
4. to allow one door opening into the theater instead of 2 (pond entry, and house entry)

Walls will have 1 layer OSB (so panels can be attached for decorations) and 2 layers sheet rock with green glue. Ceiling will get 1/4" foam- GG- sheet rock- fiberglass insulation between the joists and then 2-3 layers of sheet rock with GG between them.

The floor is currently cement so it will get rubber underlayment for moisture protection, a 2x4 sub floor (2x4s on their sides 2" is the height side) with OSB tongue and groove plywood on top of that.

Behind the last row will be a very small bar (if 4' from the rear of the back row seats to the rear wall is enough room).

All lighting will be LED spots. I will also put lighting in the area behind the screen that will light up before a movie starts to see the speakers (like Imax does). There will be some sort of LED lighting for the walk ways too, plus an exit sign above the exit.

Well how does that sound? Any suggestions? Am I forgetting anything? I want to get most of this all ironed out before we break ground on this project. As I said before this is all proposed and not final. The only final decisions are the speakers, and seats as we already have the speakers, and 2 of the 6 seats. 

For the screen I am looking at a Seymour AT screen and if the BenQ can handle it for the time being it will get the job although I will need to eventually move it to our MB for the 134" fixed screen we are currently using in our family room.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Here is another question... When I am calculating the room length do I include the area behind the screen?


----------



## hjones4841

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I will let Bryan confirm, but I would think so since bass will travel thru the screen and therefore contribute to room volume for room modes.


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

is the screen wall solid other than the AT Screen? Should be if at all possible. If solid other than the screen, you'll have resonances from the pseudo-cavity and have 2 sets of length modes to deal with.


----------



## dougc

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

My my actual measurements are not the same as calculated with my horns - I'm guessing yours will follow suit. I'd be sure that there is plenty of room to slide them back and forth for the smoothest response. ie, my best placement would have been front and rear right corners. Unfortunately I had everywhere else except for the rear corner to put subs.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> is the screen wall solid other than the AT Screen? Should be if at all possible. If solid other than the screen, you'll have resonances from the pseudo-cavity and have 2 sets of length modes to deal with.


I was planning on having a 2x4 frame structure for the wall with it all being open... This would be for the 15' part only though as the hallway end wall would be solid (so on the left there is a cavity ). I was thinking of using acoustic treatment on the whole cavity to make it dead. What do you suggest?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



dougc said:


> My my actual measurements are not the same as calculated with my horns - I'm guessing yours will follow suit. I'd be sure that there is plenty of room to slide them back and forth for the smoothest response. ie, my best placement would have been front and rear right corners. Unfortunately I had everywhere else except for the rear corner to put subs.


Well I will have 5' of depth to play with, which means the speakers can move up to 3' backwards if needed. If I have to I can rotate the subs to make the narrow edge be facing the front screen wall.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I would look at using the subs as part of the wall have the openings like what I plan to do with my spuds. There might be a way you could frame around them and then they would just be part of the wall.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I would look at using the subs as part of the wall have the openings like what I plan to do with my spuds. There might be a way you could frame around them and then they would just be part of the wall.


I originally thought of that but I am not sure I have enough space for them between the center and left or right channels. I think that once we get started I can play around with seeing where they sound the best and go from there. If I go that route then all my speakers in the front should be butted up against the screen wall, correct?

I figure as soon as we get the screen wall framed I will move the speaker in the room 1 pair at a time and run the test signals to see where the need to be to sound best. I was thinking of setting up each pair by it self to get the best soundstage... Mark the locations for that particular pair and then work on integrating them into the room design. Once a pair has been setup, then I would remove it from the room and move on to the next pair. I figure I would do the same for the subs, but I would do them with the front pair in place and without them in place to see how they sound.

Does this sound like it would work? Is there a better way?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I think you want to do the subs first, but I could be wrong. As for the rest I am not sure hopefully someone chimes and helps.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Would it cause problems acoustically if I mounted the surround speakers at an angle on the rear wall an then built the upper wall out (at the same angle as the speakers) to make them flush?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Probably would be OK pending how steep the angle is. Lots of rooms built in attic bonus rooms end up with upper walls angled like that.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Question: I noticed another forum member used Sheetrock, GG, and then MDF... Is there a reason why we do OSB, GG, and then sheet rock instead of sheet rock, GG, and then OSB or MDF?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

The reason some folks use MDF on the layer closest to the studs is to provide a mounting surface anywhere in the room. Drywall on the facing layer for the smoothest, best looking, easiest to paint layer showing.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> The reason some folks use MDF on the layer closest to the studs is to provide a mounting surface anywhere in the room. Drywall on the facing layer for the smoothest, best looking, easiest to paint layer showing.


Would MDF work better than drywall for acoustics?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

It's just for isolation, not to do with in-room acoustics. All a matter of mass in terms of isolation.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> It's just for isolation, not to do with in-room acoustics. All a matter of mass in terms of isolation.


So would MDF be better than drywall in terms of isolation and mass?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Realistically about the same though MDF will be more expensive and not flex as much as drywall. Trading motion eating pressure vs rigidity. Drywall will be more predictable.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> Realistically about the same though MDF will be more expensive and not flex as much as drywall. Trading motion eating pressure vs rigidity. Drywall will be more predictable.


OSB is not as good as drywall either, correct?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Nope. Not as much mass.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> Nope. Not as much mass.


So if a person is going to hang acoustic panels they should do one layer of OSB and follow up with one or two layers of drywall, correct? If you forgo the OSB would screw in anchors work for hanging acoustic panels or does that defeat the purpose of using clips?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Panels can hang just on the drywall with the right anchor. OOKS hooks work great. No need to find a stud even. VERY small nail hole - much smaller than the auger type drywall anchors.

OSB/MDF are used for things like when you don't know where the surrounds would be, if you need to hang shelves, etc. But if you know in advance, you can also just use cross braces between studs in the proper locations and use all drywall.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> Panels can hang just on the drywall with the right anchor. OOKS hooks work great. No need to find a stud even. VERY small nail hole - much smaller than the auger type drywall anchors.
> 
> OSB/MDF are used for things like when you don't know where the surrounds would be, if you need to hang shelves, etc. But if you know in advance, you can also just use cross braces between studs in the proper locations and use all drywall.


Gotcha, thanks. :T:T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Well we should have the garage ready to start construction on in a week or two... 

This is what the plan is so far. 
1:Cut out the door opening and install a solid core door from the garage to the house.
2:Build the hallway wall (not sure if this should be done before or after ceiling and raised floor)
3: Open up the ceiling and walls to re do the sound insulation

The next step I am not sure of... Should the floor or ceiling be built next?

For the ceiling we will be doing the 1/4" foam board, GG, drywall, insulation,GG all of this between the beams and then... Drywall, GG, Drywall

For the floor we are planning on moisture barrier 2x4 with 3/4" OSB (insulation in the sub floor if it will fit).

I figure the drywall on the walls will be after we have demo'd the speakers in the room.

How does this sound? Is this the correct order to do this? Suggestions? Do we do the electrical wiring before we do the 1/4" foam in between the ceiling joists or after? I am thinking it would go in the fiberglass insulation layer but I am not sure.

Is anyone familiar with these Genie Clips? Are they any good?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I would say it would be easier to put the 1/4" foam board, then wire. I would do the wire then fiberglass insulation. That way you can split the insulation around the wires. If you are doing the whole floor would do the floors, then any walls, then the ceiling last. That is how I think they do normal framing on second levels.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

:T

Will it be any different being that this is a first floor? I am only doing the floor because it is concrete and I am trying to stop the bass from going through the concrete slab.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Well we should have the garage ready to start construction on in a week or two...
> 
> This is what the plan is so far.
> 1:Cut out the door opening and install a solid core door from the garage to the house.
> 2:Build the hallway wall (not sure if this should be done before or after ceiling and raised floor)
> 3: Open up the ceiling and walls to re do the sound insulation
> 
> The next step I am not sure of... Should the floor or ceiling be built next?
> 
> For the ceiling we will be doing the 1/4" foam board, GG, drywall, insulation,GG all of this between the beams and then... Drywall, GG, Drywall
> 
> For the floor we are planning on moisture barrier 2x4 with 3/4" OSB (insulation in the sub floor if it will fit).
> 
> I figure the drywall on the walls will be after we have demo'd the speakers in the room.
> 
> How does this sound? Is this the correct order to do this? Suggestions? Do we do the electrical wiring before we do the 1/4" foam in between the ceiling joists or after? I am thinking it would go in the fiberglass insulation layer but I am not sure.
> 
> Is anyone familiar with these Genie Clips? Are they any good?


If it were me, I would do the ceiling first - simply because if anything plops down while I am working on it, it does not get on a floor I have already finished.

Spot on - do everything up to the drywall up there, do whatever electrical you have to, and then work the insulation around that.

Apologies - not familiar with the Genie clips...


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I know ALM did foam board because he had screws sticking out through the bottom of his subfloor that would have made it very difficult to mount drywall directly to the bottom of the floor, is there any actual soundproofing reason to use foamboard between the joists? The standard sound isolation method to reduce footfall noise from above is green glue between drywall and the subfloor, then another layer of drywall with green glue between.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> I know ALM did foam board because he had screws sticking out through the bottom of his subfloor that would have made it very difficult to mount drywall directly to the bottom of the floor, is there any actual soundproofing reason to use foamboard between the joists? The standard sound isolation method to reduce footfall noise from above is green glue between drywall and the subfloor, then another layer of drywall with green glue between.


There is not - I would never have taken the time to put that stuff in if I did not have those screws poking through.

If I did not have to put the foam board in, I probably would have added a second layer of drywall in between the joists.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> There is not - I would never have taken the time to put that stuff in if I did not have those screws poking through.
> 
> If I did not have to put the foam board in, I probably would have added a second layer of drywall in between the joists.


Good to know... We will check for screws or nails before we decide if we need the foam board layer. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

When the new wall is built... Does the wall get built all the way to the ceiling or is there a gap for isolation? Do we do it the same way for the subfloor over concrete?


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> When the new wall is built... Does the wall get built all the way to the ceiling or is there a gap for isolation? Do we do it the same way for the subfloor over concrete?


If you can manage to isolate the walls from the ceiling as part of the build and still make them able to hold the weight of multiple layers of drywall, I would definitely go that route. To me, the single largest potential for transmission of LFE vibrations is through the ceiling joists.

As for the floor, I would go to the concrete. If memory serves, concrete - especially if it is below ground level- does not transmit those vibrations. My walls are right on top of my foundation in the basement, and you cannot hear boo from outside.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> When the new wall is built... Does the wall get built all the way to the ceiling or is there a gap for isolation? Do we do it the same way for the subfloor over concrete?


If you are using clips and channel to decouple the drywall from the wall studs, it doesn't really matter. If sound will be able to transfer through the drywall to the wall framing, use IB-3 brackets to isolate the wall from the joists above like this:








I used IB-3s because I did double stud wall construction to avoid the cost of clips and channel on the walls. They also made wall construction easier because I didn't need to worry about the top plate of the walls being flush to the joists.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> If you are using clips and channel to decouple the drywall from the wall studs, it doesn't really matter. If sound will be able to transfer through the drywall to the wall framing, use IB-3 brackets to isolate the wall from the joists above like this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used IB-3s because I did double stud wall construction to avoid the cost of clips and channel on the walls. They also made wall construction easier because I didn't need to worry about the top plate of the walls being flush to the joists.


So this is less expensive then the clips route? I priced out the clips and they were going to run me about $1k to do the whole room. How would a double wall construction compare to using more layers of drywall?


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> So this is less expensive then the clips route? I priced out the clips and they were going to run me about $1k to do the whole room. How would a double wall construction compare to using more layers of drywall?


For me, because I was deciding between either a double stud wall or a wall with clips and channel on both sides, it was cheaper to do a double stud wall. Clips and channel on both sides of just one 22 foot long wall would have been around $250, doing a double stud wall cost the lumber and insulation for the second wall, plus the cost of the IB-3 brackets to decouple the walls from the ceiling, costing about $150. Most people wouldn't use IB-3s on both "sides" of the wall, but I decided to spend the extra $35 because I have the theater on one side of the wall and the furnace on the other side. The double stud wall is a lot easier to deal with in terms of mounting speakers, shelves, electrical boxes etc as well because you can drill right into a stud without messing up your decoupling method. It makes the whole expensive 1-layer of OSB/1-layer of drywall method entirely unnecessary, and will save you a ton of money right there if you are considering that option.

As far as how it compares to using more drywall, it doesn't. Extra drywall adds mass, a double stud wall introduces decoupling. In case you aren't familiar with the four elements of soundproofing, they are:

-Decoupling (clips/channel, staggered or double stud walls, anything that keeps sound from traveling directly through the framing of the wall to the other side or above/below)
-Absorption (insulation in the wall cavities)
-Mass (drywall/heavy wood panels)
-Damping (green glue or similar products)

For more details on those, check this article out. I think it's pretty much required reading on this subject, as are most of the articles at soundproofingcompany.com.

Here's another article about the tested STC ratings of various wall assemblies that helped me decide on a double stud wall.

Ultimately though in terms of performance comparison, the double stud wall construction (when properly decoupled from the ceiling with IB-3 clips to avoid flanking) is widely considered to be the most effective method of decoupling, and when combined with the absorption of fluffy insulation in the cavities, the mass of two layers of 5/8" drywall, and damping compound between, you have an extremely effective wall.

Also it's pretty cool to be able to run wires through the walls without drilling any holes!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> For me, because I was deciding between either a double stud wall or a wall with clips and channel on both sides, it was cheaper to do a double stud wall. Clips and channel on both sides of just one 22 foot long wall would have been around $250, doing a double stud wall cost the lumber and insulation for the second wall, plus the cost of the IB-3 brackets to decouple the walls from the ceiling, costing about $150. Most people wouldn't use IB-3s on both "sides" of the wall, but I decided to spend the extra $35 because I have the theater on one side of the wall and the furnace on the other side. The double stud wall is a lot easier to deal with in terms of mounting speakers, shelves, electrical boxes etc as well because you can drill right into a stud without messing up your decoupling method. It makes the whole expensive 1-layer of OSB/1-layer of drywall method entirely unnecessary, and will save you a ton of money right there if you are considering that option.
> 
> As far as how it compares to using more drywall, it doesn't. Extra drywall adds mass, a double stud wall introduces decoupling. In case you aren't familiar with the four elements of soundproofing, they are:
> 
> -Decoupling (clips/channel, staggered or double stud walls, anything that keeps sound from traveling directly through the framing of the wall to the other side or above/below)
> -Absorption (insulation in the wall cavities)
> -Mass (drywall/heavy wood panels)
> -Damping (green glue or similar products)
> 
> For more details on those, check this article out. I think it's pretty much required reading on this subject, as are most of the articles at soundproofingcompany.com.
> 
> Here's another article about the tested STC ratings of various wall assemblies that helped me decide on a double stud wall.
> 
> Ultimately though in terms of performance comparison, the double stud wall construction (when properly decoupled from the ceiling with IB-3 clips to avoid flanking) is widely considered to be the most effective method of decoupling, and when combined with the absorption of fluffy insulation in the cavities, the mass of two layers of 5/8" drywall, and damping compound between, you have an extremely effective wall.
> 
> Also it's pretty cool to be able to run wires through the walls without drilling any holes!


I looked at the article last night when you posted the pic of the IB-3 clips... I have been wavering between doing clips and saving a little space and double wall for a bit now. How much space did you have between the 2 walls? When I read the articles, I saw that they still use clips on the ceiling. Did you use clips on the ceiling or did you just use the IB-3? I also saw where they talked about using as many as 4 layers of drywall on the walls... :T


How do you deal with the location of the projector? I currently have a BenQ w1070 but will be getting a different projector maybe in a year or two... The throw will most likely be different. I have though about maybe making a false beam down the center of the room that way if I need to go to a different projector I could with minimal work. Another idea was to put a slide on the ceiling to adjust the projector but I am worried about the subs vibrating it, and causing a rattle.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I looked at the article last night when you posted the pic of the IB-3 clips... I have been wavering between doing clips and saving a little space and double wall for a bit now. How much space did you have between the 2 walls? When I read the articles, I saw that they still use clips on the ceiling. Did you use clips on the ceiling or did you just use the IB-3? I also saw where they talked about using as many as 4 layers of drywall on the walls... :T


I left an inch between the two wall frames, which ends up making the walls 10.5" thick overall including 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on each side.

The equivalent of the double wall for ceilings is the "floating joist" method, described in this article. You install entirely new joists in the ceiling cavities to support the ceiling. This costs a lot more than a double wall though because you need much larger lumber, and I can't imagine it's easy to install, plus you lose room for wiring, ducts, etc. up there. Not an option for me, so I used the standard clip and channel system for the ceiling decoupling.

I actually talked to Ted White at the soundproofing company about a third layer of drywall, and he said that some people do it, but it's too impractical for most people, and after you have two layers your money is better spent fixing flanking issues such as doors, vents, etc, because they will be your weak links at that point. Even if you have a 3-foot thick wall, your door is still only 1-3/4" thick at most, all your outlet and switch gang boxes are made out of thin plastic, your lights are punching holes through all that that thick drywall, etc.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> I left an inch between the two wall frames, which ends up making the walls 10.5" thick overall including 2 layers of 5/8" drywall on each side.
> 
> The equivalent of the double wall for ceilings is the "floating joist" method, described in this article. You install entirely new joists in the ceiling cavities to support the ceiling. This costs a lot more than a double wall though because you need much larger lumber, and I can't imagine it's easy to install, plus you lose room for wiring, ducts, etc. up there. Not an option for me, so I used the standard clip and channel system for the ceiling decoupling.
> 
> I actually talked to Ted White at the soundproofing company about a third layer of drywall, and he said that some people do it, but it's too impractical for most people, and after you have two layers your money is better spent fixing flanking issues such as doors, vents, etc, because they will be your weak links at that point. Even if you have a 3-foot thick wall, your door is still only 1-3/4" thick at most, all your outlet and switch gang boxes are made out of thin plastic, your lights are punching holes through all that that thick drywall, etc.


So you left the original drywall up and then put up a new wall with double layers of drywall on each side of the wall? When I was reading I got the impression that it was suggested that you only have the double layers of drywall on the original wall (exterior side), and the new wall (interior side), leaving both walls open to each other with only the fiberglass in between them. Am I missing something?


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> So you left the original drywall up and then put up a new wall with double layers of drywall on each side of the wall? When I was reading I got the impression that it was suggested that you only have the double layers of drywall on the original wall (exterior side), and the new wall (interior side), leaving both walls open to each other with only the fiberglass in between them. Am I missing something?


No, I built my walls from scratch, there was no existing wall. You never want mass (drywall) inside the wall. My walls are built like this:

Two layers of 5/8" Drywall w/ Green Glue
3-1/2" Wall frame with fiberglass insulation
1 Inch air cavity
3-1/2" Wall frame with fiberglass insulation
Two layers of 5/8" Drywall w/ Green Glue

For a total of 10.5 inches.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> No, I built my walls from scratch, there was no existing wall. You never want mass (drywall) inside the wall. My walls are built like this:
> 
> Two layers of 5/8" Drywall w/ Green Glue
> 3-1/2" Wall frame with fiberglass insulation
> 1 Inch air cavity
> 3-1/2" Wall frame with fiberglass insulation
> Two layers of 5/8" Drywall w/ Green Glue
> 
> For a total of 10.5 inches.


So what I am thinking...

1. Rip out the drywall from the ceiling
2. Install clips for dryall in the ceiling and install gg, drywall,fiberglass, run electrical wiring, drywall (between the joists).
3. Install clips and install drywall, gg, drywall for the ceiling, cutout for electrical boxes for low voltage lighting and projector power, seal boxes, install lights, and outlet for projector
4. Rip off the old drywall and seal off all openings to the outside of the house, ie. cable box, main power line etc. 
5. Run electrical wire for switches, and speaker wires.
6. Re-install the fiberglass insulation (if possible).
7. Build a new 2x4 framed wall on 24" centers, one inch from the old wall, and run electrical lines.
8. Install OSB, gg, drywall, gg, drywall, cut out holes for switches, and outlets
9. Install vapor barrier for complete floor.
10. Install 3/4" OSB sub floor on top of 2x4 laid on its side 1 1/2" high sub floor for everywhere except 2nd row.
11. Build rear sub floor for second floor, run electrical wire for outlets, low voltage lighting,run lan wire, stuff floor with fiberglass and top off with 3/4" OSB
12. Install carpet pad, and carpet.
13. Install Bar, microwave, and mini fridge for bar behind 2nd row of seating.
14. Install power recliners.
15. Hook up all equipment and test acoustics.
16. Apply room treatments.
17. Fire up the projector and calibrate.
18. Fire up a movie.
19. Open a Murphys Stout, and enjoy! :T

Am I missing anything?


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> So what I am thinking...
> 
> 1. Rip out the drywall from the ceiling
> 2. Install clips for dryall in the ceiling and install gg, drywall,fiberglass, run electrical wiring, drywall (between the joists).
> 3. Install clips and install drywall, gg, drywall for the ceiling, cutout for electrical boxes for low voltage lighting and projector power, seal boxes, install lights, and outlet for projector
> 4. Rip off the old drywall and seal off all openings to the outside of the house, ie. cable box, main power line etc.
> 5. Run electrical wire for switches, and speaker wires.
> 6. Re-install the fiberglass insulation (if possible).
> 7. Build a new 2x4 framed wall on 24" centers, one inch from the old wall, and run electrical lines.
> 8. Install OSB, gg, drywall, gg, drywall, cut out holes for switches, and outlets
> 9. Install vapor barrier for complete floor.
> 10. Install 3/4" OSB sub floor on top of 2x4 laid on its side 1 1/2" high sub floor for everywhere except 2nd row.
> 11. Build rear sub floor for second floor, run electrical wire for outlets, low voltage lighting,run lan wire, stuff floor with fiberglass and top off with 3/4" OSB
> 12. Install carpet pad, and carpet.
> 13. Install Bar, microwave, and mini fridge for bar behind 2nd row of seating.
> 14. Install power recliners.
> 15. Hook up all equipment and test acoustics.
> 16. Apply room treatments.
> 17. Fire up the projector and calibrate.
> 18. Fire up a movie.
> 19. Open a Murphys Stout, and enjoy! :T
> 
> Am I missing anything?


I think that's a good plan to start Ron. A couple suggestions I have - if you have a lower ceiling like I did, you can save a bit of height by installing 2x4 cross pieces between the joists to attach the clips /channel to. I took pictures when I did it so you can see that in my build.

Also, remember that some appliances introduce a hump in your response when measuring with REW. I believe refrigerators are one of these...


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> So what I am thinking...
> 
> 1. Rip out the drywall from the ceiling
> 2. Install clips for dryall in the ceiling and install gg, drywall,fiberglass, run electrical wiring, drywall (between the joists).
> 3. Install clips and install drywall, gg, drywall for the ceiling, cutout for electrical boxes for low voltage lighting and projector power, seal boxes, install lights, and outlet for projector
> 4. Rip off the old drywall and seal off all openings to the outside of the house, ie. cable box, main power line etc.
> 5. Run electrical wire for switches, and speaker wires.
> 6. Re-install the fiberglass insulation (if possible).
> 7. Build a new 2x4 framed wall on 24" centers, one inch from the old wall, and run electrical lines.
> 8. Install OSB, gg, drywall, gg, drywall, cut out holes for switches, and outlets
> 9. Install vapor barrier for complete floor.
> 10. Install 3/4" OSB sub floor on top of 2x4 laid on its side 1 1/2" high sub floor for everywhere except 2nd row.
> 11. Build rear sub floor for second floor, run electrical wire for outlets, low voltage lighting,run lan wire, stuff floor with fiberglass and top off with 3/4" OSB
> 12. Install carpet pad, and carpet.
> 13. Install Bar, microwave, and mini fridge for bar behind 2nd row of seating.
> 14. Install power recliners.
> 15. Hook up all equipment and test acoustics.
> 16. Apply room treatments.
> 17. Fire up the projector and calibrate.
> 18. Fire up a movie.
> 19. Open a Murphys Stout, and enjoy! :T
> 
> Am I missing anything?


Just a few comments, regarding sound transfer to the bedroom upstairs, as I understand it's your main concern.

You mention two layers of drywall on the ceiling, but a layer of OSB along with two layers of drywall on the walls. With this setup the weak point is going to be the ceiling, both because of the bedroom being directly above the ceiling, and that the clips and channel are less effective at soundproofing than the double stud wall construction. Because of that, using three layers of mass on the walls is kind of a waste, when you only have two layers on the ceiling. I would do three layers of mass and green glue on the ceiling (whether it's OSB and two layers of drywall, or just three layers of drywall) and I would skip the OSB altogether on the walls to save money since with a double stud wall you'll have studs to mount things to directly.

Also you mention lighting, but you don't go into much detail. The more holes you cut in your ceiling for lights the more sound is going to get through, even if you build backer boxes for all of them. I'd probably build soffits around the perimeter of the room after the walls and ceiling are complete, and put all the lighting in there, to keep the ceiling sealed. You can also mount your projector in or near the soffit and have the cabling for it go through there.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I think that's a good plan to start Ron. A couple suggestions I have - if you have a lower ceiling like I did, you can save a bit of height by installing 2x4 cross pieces between the joists to attach the clips /channel to. I took pictures when I did it so you can see that in my build.
> 
> Also, remember that some appliances introduce a hump in your response when measuring with REW. I believe refrigerators are one of these...


Ok, got it... What do you do if you want to use a mini fridge then? I was planning on having the fridge, microwave, and seating on a separate circuit.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> Just a few comments, regarding sound transfer to the bedroom upstairs, as I understand it's your main concern.
> 
> You mention two layers of drywall on the ceiling, but a layer of OSB along with two layers of drywall on the walls. With this setup the weak point is going to be the ceiling, both because of the bedroom being directly above the ceiling, and that the clips and channel are less effective at soundproofing than the double stud wall construction. Because of that, using three layers of mass on the walls is kind of a waste, when you only have two layers on the ceiling. I would do three layers of mass and green glue on the ceiling (whether it's OSB and two layers of drywall, or just three layers of drywall) and I would skip the OSB altogether on the walls to save money since with a double stud wall you'll have studs to mount things to directly.
> 
> Also you mention lighting, but you don't go into much detail. The more holes you cut in your ceiling for lights the more sound is going to get through, even if you build backer boxes for all of them. I'd probably build soffits around the perimeter of the room after the walls and ceiling are complete, and put all the lighting in there, to keep the ceiling sealed. You can also mount your projector in or near the soffit and have the cabling for it go through there.


Gotcha... Would it be ok to make a soffit that was at an angle, and came out about 2-3',maybe at a 45 degree angle so I could mount my surrounds in it too?


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Ok, got it... What do you do if you want to use a mini fridge then? I was planning on having the fridge, microwave, and seating on a separate circuit.


No chance of putting it in a different space? I do not think it has to do with what breaker it is on - it has to do with the hum of the power draw. I admit to being not 100% on this - I just remember several discussion concerning REW plots where people were seeing a hump at 60 Hz and someone suggesting it had to do with a fridge.

That said, make it a space you want to spend loads of time in - just remember if you do readings and see a hump at 60 Hz, that may be the cause.



ellisr63 said:


> Gotcha... Would it be ok to make a soffit that was at an angle, and came out about 2-3',maybe at a 45 degree angle so I could mount my surrounds in it too?


I forget - are you doing in ceiling surrounds?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> No chance of putting it in a different space? I do not think it has to do with what breaker it is on - it has to do with the hum of the power draw. I admit to being not 100% on this - I just remember several discussion concerning REW plots where people were seeing a hump at 60 Hz and someone suggesting it had to do with a fridge.
> 
> That said, make it a space you want to spend loads of time in - just remember if you do readings and see a hump at 60 Hz, that may be the cause.
> 
> 
> 
> I forget - are you doing in ceiling surrounds?


Won't the fridge cause the same hump even if it is in another room then? I might be able to install it in the hallway by cutting a hole in the wall...

No, I will be mounting the Klipsch HIPs up by the ceiling and angling them toward the listening area. I could mount them lower and have them firing straight out if that would be better. I have also thought about doing a star ceiling in the center of the room.


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Make sure all of your HT equipment is on one 110v leg of the panel. Put the fridge on the other leg. That will help some with the noise in the lines. Not going to completely eliminate it but it will help.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Gotcha... Would it be ok to make a soffit that was at an angle, and came out about 2-3',maybe at a 45 degree angle so I could mount my surrounds in it too?


From what I've read I don't think it's good acoustically to have angled soffits. I've seen people mount angled speakers in a soffit like this.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I do not think it has to do with what breaker it is on - it has to do with the hum of the power draw. I admit to being not 100% on this - I just remember several discussion concerning REW plots where people were seeing a hump at 60 Hz and someone suggesting it had to do with a fridge.


Every fridge I've ever been around makes a low hum, especially noticeable with mini-fridges. The worst part while watching a movie is that they aren't consistent. They click on and off as needed to maintain the temperature. I'd love to have a mini-fridge in my theater but there's no way I'm going to bring something in the room that makes a hum like that when I've done so much work and spent so much money on keeping all the other sounds of the house out.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> From what I've read I don't think it's good acoustically to have angled soffits. I've seen people mount angled speakers in a soffit like this.


That is where I got the idea... I just figured that by continuing the angle it would help with the sound wave of the speakers. Wouldn't it be just like having a attic home theater with angled walls?

I was thinking of just how the sound panels are in this pic...  I would just make it a sofit and with the acoustic treatment built into to the soffit. Douse this make sense? Would this be ok?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> Every fridge I've ever been around makes a low hum, especially noticeable with mini-fridges. The worst part while watching a movie is that they aren't consistent. They click on and off as needed to maintain the temperature. I'd love to have a mini-fridge in my theater but there's no way I'm going to bring something in the room that makes a hum like that when I've done so much work and spent so much money on keeping all the other sounds of the house out.


I will look and see if it would be possible to put it in the hallway sunk into a wall then... I will do the same for the microwave then. :T


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

This isn't my area of expertise, but I think if you are covering them in fabric instead of finishing them with drywall having angled soffits should be just fine. I'm not sure how that could work with lighting in the soffits though.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I will look and see if it would be possible to put it in the hallway sunk into a wall then... I will do the same for the microwave then. :T


That's my plan too, there should be room for stuff like that in the office around the corner from the theater room, so at least I won't have to run upstairs every time I want a drink.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> This isn't my area of expertise, but I think if you are covering them in fabric instead of finishing them with drywall having angled soffits should be just fine. I'm not sure how that could work with lighting in the soffits though.


I was thinking that the bottom of the soffit could be a flat box that would have my recessed LED lights in it and then there would be a cavity that angled up toward the ceiling that would house my speakers and bass traps, etc. The soffit would basically be nothing but a space frame type of construction with a sealed box running around the perimeter of the room and housing the lighting. I am also thinking of making the walls with curved acoustic panels wrapped in fabric, and maybe some acoustic panels hanging from the ceiling too.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Well, I just ordered the last audio piece for the new HT... I got a Yamaha P7000S to power the Manley SUPER SPUDs.  I will hold off until we get everything up and running in the new HT before I look into a MiniDSP. If I am lucky, we may be able to start the destruction phase of the build this week!  Maybe in a couple of weeks I will have the basic room up and ready for testing the speaker locations!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Where is a good place to get the clips, and the GG for the drywall install on the ceiling? I think Lowes sells the GG (I get a 10% discount for being a Veteran). Is Lowes the best deal for me with my discount?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I don't know if you have a Menards but here they are the same price as The Sound Proofing Company. But you can order it from there. Depending how much you need it may be economic to order it by the pale. They have other clips there as well, http://www.soundproofingcompany.com/ These guys are very nice to talk to.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Thanks, I just sent them an email. :T


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I got all my stuff from The Soundproofing Company too - great guys to work with!


----------



## MrAngles

Unless you only need a few tubes of green glue or sealant, going with the soundproofing company is a must, for price and for advice. Great guys, very helpful and trustworthy.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We will be doing a 19'x 28' ceiling, and then building the hallway wall. I would assume it is going to take a pail or two. Did you buy the applicator too, or just use a trowel?


----------



## MrAngles

ellisr63 said:


> We will be doing a 19'x 28' ceiling, and then building the hallway wall. I would assume it is going to take a pail or two. Did you buy the applicator too, or just use a trowel?


I used a whole pail on just the two layers of drywall between the joists in my build, I'm sure you'll need at least two pails even if you are going with the one tube per sheet application method. 

The speedloader is essential for measuring how much you use, and to keep from getting green glue everywhere. It costs $30 if you're buying three or more pails.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Sounds like I will need between 2 and 3 pails...


----------



## MrAngles

A pail costs $200, about as much as 15 tubes, so even without the discount on the speedloader it could easily be worth it to get the third pail.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I called them today and had a long talk about the HT setup... I will be reviewing the info this weekend and submitting a order next week.


----------



## MasonUK

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Hi,
Are you using Floating floors and/or box in box construction to acoustically isolate?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I was told to not build a sub floor... Onl build one for the second row of seats... Just use carpet pad and carpet for the floor.


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

subfloor can be done IF you have sufficient headroom, budget, don't mind a step up into the room, etc.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I think without the subfloor it will allow me to seal off the ceiling better with the HVAC ducting that is already in place.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I thought you were doing this?


ellisr63 said:


> 10. Install 3/4" OSB sub floor on top of 2x4 laid on its side 1 1/2" high sub floor for everywhere except 2nd row.


Anyway, ignore MasonUK, he's a schill.


----------



## NBPk402

MrAngles said:


> I thought you were doing this?Anyway, ignore MasonUK, he's a schill.


I was planning on it but they said not to do it.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have changed up my audio speaker setup a little too... I am making these, but mine will have the JBL 2360A horns with the EV DHA-1 drivers . The front 3 channels will be 2 ways with the same woofers but the center channel will have the Faital horns and drivers. This will now mean that I will have a pair of La Scalas for the rear channels. The Klipsch Heresy HIPs, and Klipsch Pro 3002s will still be used but I am not sure which will be used as heights or for the width channels. I am sure as I go there will be other changes too. This setup means I will now be running a active crossover and bi-amping the front 3 channels with the minidsp for time alignment, PEQ, and sub integration. The horns will all be driven with chip amps. I am really getting excited about this setup now.

Here is what the horns look like...


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I have changed up my audio speaker setup a little too... I am making these, but mine will have the JBL 2360A horns with the EV DHA-1 drivers . The front 3 channels will be 2 ways with the same woofers but the center channel will have the Faital horns and drivers. This will now mean that I will have a pair of La Scalas for the rear channels. The Klipsch Heresy HIPs, and Klipsch Pro 3002s will still be used but I am not sure which will be used as heights or for the width channels. I am sure as I go there will be other changes too. This setup means I will now be running a active crossover and bi-amping the front 3 channels with the minidsp for time alignment, PEQ, and sub integration. The horns will all be driven with chip amps. I am really getting excited about this setup now.
> 
> Here is what the horns look like...


That is a serious horn! Looking forward to seeing that build...

Good to hear Ted and John got you squared away!


----------



## NBPk402

Yes, I can't wait to start getting this all completed... Especially since I have new speakers, subs, and amps.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Progress report: Today we got all the drywall removed in the garage, and all the insulation except for the ceiling. We measured out for seating, and discovered we will not have enough room for 2 rows of seating plus a bar, so we decided to eliminate the hallway and just do a double wall all around the theater. We will put up a 3' high wall right by the entrance to the theater... It will only be about 2-3' long, and is being installed because one of the La Scalas will be right there and building the wall will give it some corner loading plus I don't have to worry about someone walking into the speaker. 

This will mean my theater will now be about 19' wide and 28' long (including the 5' deep area behind the screen). We are planning on running all the electrical wiring under a sub floor (we are back to the original plan of a 2" high sub floor), from the behind the screen powering 6 power recliners, and a few accessories. We will also down the same path under the floor more wiring that will go up the rear wall and then go around the room in a soffit for lighting, and maybe a fiber optic sky. We looked at the original ceiling and it has electrical wiring already going through it for the rest of the house, We don't want to mess with it, so we are planning to just do the clips, drywall, gg, drywall on the ceiling and then run the new lighting in the soffit. We will however have to do some major re piping of the HVAC as we have a 24" duct running down the side of the garage and another one coming out at 90 degrees from that and heading toward the ceiling, and then splitting into two runs that go across our ceiling. I ordered a whole house surge protector that will be going in next to our fuse box panel (which is in the front right hand corner next to the screen (we are planning on concealing it with a bass trap). Monday night we are going to try and get some of the old electrical wiring out of the room, so we will have a clean slate to start with before we start building the second wall. I will try and get some pics this week at what we are looking at. We also have a water filtering system that must be relocated and we must take into account a heater duct vent.

Any problems with what we are planning, or further suggestions? Hopefully we are not forgetting anything.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have one of the whole house surge protectors, well worth it. Sounds like you have a plan, I thought I did but it seems to change regularly.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I have one of the whole house surge protectors, well worth it. Sounds like you have a plan, I thought I did but it seems to change regularly.


Yeah every step it seems develops a rethinking of the previous plan to make sure it works out. With the new plan the room won't be as symmetrical as the old but it will be over 3' wider. One thing we did was allow for 6" in between the power recliners for drink holders, and PS3 controllers. I figure 90% of the time it will only be my wife and I and our dogs watching movies in the theater so why have the bar. The other thing is we might cut a hole in the left hand wall and make a cubby hole for a small fridge. All the Audio equipment will most like ly be behind the screen or I could make a small cubby hole in the side wall and maybe eliminate the fridge if there is not enough room. The more I think about it the more I think the electronics would be better off being in the same room instead of behind the screen...

We got the Leviton 51120 Whole house surge protector.

I forgot to ask... Is it going to be ok to have the first row of seating at 13' when the room is actually 28' deep (that is because of the 5' deep cavity behind the screen)? What are others doing about projector power and mounting? I am concerned because I currently have the BenQ W1070 and I might get a different projector down the road which might have a different throw. Should I make a soffit right down the center of the room to hide my wires for power and HDMI cable?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Here are some pics...

Pic 1


pic 2


pic 3


pic 4


pic 5


The shelves will be coming down and everything else will be coming out soon... This was just to show what our current problems are in the construction, and to figure out what to do to solve them. We have thought about replacing the water heater with a tankless water heater and also going to a smaller more efficient multizone heater. For size and placement you can see my La Scala bass bins on the floor where they will most likely be going. In one pic you can also see a DTS-10 sub (one of 2). The bass bin that is currently right in front of the garage door will be our center channel but it will be put in place after the new extension is built. This week we will be installing the new Whole House Surge protector, and eliminating any unneeded electrical wiring and lighting.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

In the above pics you can see our problem with the HVAC pipes (the hose is from our old A/C unit and will be replaced and run under the house to the new location...

Question #1: Do we need to remove the water heater and Furnace and do green glue on the walls behind it, or is it possible to make a door that could seal it off?

Question #2: Any suggestions on how to reroute the HVAC pipes?

Question #3: Should we caulk all the wall joists to the outside wall panels to seal it better? We will be using clay pads to seal the electrical box and any other obvious penetrations.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I would try to run the hvac runs to the perimeter and build a sound proof sofit around them(you can do some cool stuff with sofet). I know you might have mentioned it but what is the purpose of the 5' cavity for the front stage.

All so to answer a question I think you had earlier about the DTS 10 being a riser. I know it should support it as that is why they made the THspud for the possibility of a riser. The only problem is I don't know how high it would be. 

I would seal up the room with a good heavy door, I think the soundproofing store sells stuff for this. Yes I would caulk any joints possible to the outside or even to sharing walls so you can prevent as much as flow coming and going as possible.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I would try to run the hvac runs to the perimeter and build a sound proof sofit around them(you can do some cool stuff with sofet). I know you might have mentioned it but what is the purpose of the 5' cavity for the front stage.
> 
> All so to answer a question I think you had earlier about the DTS 10 being a riser. I know it should support it as that is why they made the THspud for the possibility of a riser. The only problem is I don't know how high it would be.
> 
> I would seal up the room with a good heavy door, I think the soundproofing store sells stuff for this. Yes I would caulk any joints possible to the outside or even to sharing walls so you can prevent as much as flow coming and going as possible.


The current garage door opening will be the new AT screen... Hence the requirement for an additional 5' of garage depth needed to house the front 5 channels. I have been trying to get in touch with a rep from Danley to see about using 1 or both DTS-10 subs as a riser for the 2nd row of seating but I have been unable to reach anyone. We do have enough room to do it. The door in the rear will be replaced with a solid core door and well sealed.

What do we do about the water heater and furnace area... Can we get a door that will seal it off for noise (will it be a fire hazard to do that even with the venting)? I have been trying to get a hold of a friend who does HVAC to see what he thinks, but so far I haven't been able to reach him.


----------



## MrAngles

Plenty of people build a mechanical room with a door in their basement. As long as you have air intakes and exhausts on all your appliances that run to outside air I don't know why it would be a fire hazard in a garage. I would just put an exterior doorframe in there with a solid core door.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> Plenty of people build a mechanical room with a door in their basement. As long as you have air intakes and exhausts on all your appliances that run to outside air I don't know why it would be a fire hazard in a garage. I would just put an exterior doorframe in there with a solid core door.



Sounds good... I will see what we need to do to mechanically vent the room as currently it just has the standard vent that goes to the ceiling. Next biggie then is figuring out how to reroute those massive duct pipes in the ceiling. I know we could just build around them but I think it will seriously destroy the looks of the theater plus the sound.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

A floorplan of the room might help with the HVAC plan. I can't really picture where everything's going to go.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> A floorplan of the room might help with the HVAC plan. I can't really picture where everything's going to go.


I am going to see if I can draw something up today...

Does anyone know if there is a difference in the different putty pads? I see a lot of different kinds on eBay. http://www.ebay.com/sch/Business-Industrial-/12576/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=putty+pads&_sop=15

The Hilti seem to be the best price in quantity.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



The red outline is the HVAC hoses... The one running from the rear of the theater toward the front along the wall is 2' diameter and close to the ceiling. The smaller one comes out of the wall below the 2' one and goes up to the ceiling and then splits to go to 2 different vents for our MB.

The orange part toward the front of the theater is the AT screen. I am now also wondering if the speakers will be ok being off center in the rear... They are centered on the seating only. I might be able to get a little bit more room by moving the seating up , but I would need to move it up another 1-2' which would bring my front row to 11-12' from the screen. 

The other options would be...
1. Make the La Scalas the surround side channels on the floor, and the 3002s the rears (which could then go on the rear wall close to the ceiling, and be centered properly).
2. Hang the la Scalas from the ceiling on the rear wall with one being over the entrance door (then they could be in the soffit).

Does this make it more clear?

Any ideas?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I drew this up today to hopefully explain the problems better and also updated speaker placement possibilities. I am not sure where the side surrounds should go, and I left out the height channels for the time being.

Side views...


Top view... 


All the big horns are up front and the HIPs, and 3002 would be in the Side Surround or Rear Surround positions.

Iam thinking we might have to build out around the AC ducting and then do the double drywall , GG around it. I am also thinking a wide soffit around the whole viewing area of the room in which I could then put all my lighting and maybe put my speakers in also. Would it be ok to put the Klipsch KP3002 speakers on their sides and angle downward?

I think if we needed to we could raise the rear platform up a few more inches but not by much as we are pushing 7' of clearance now without a soffit.

Any suggestions? Is this easier to understand our problem?


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> The red outline is the HVAC hoses... The one running from the rear of the theater toward the front along the wall is 2' diameter and close to the ceiling. The smaller one comes out of the wall below the 2' one and goes up to the ceiling and then splits to go to 2 different vents for our MB.


If those two 12" ducts each just supply one vent each, I don't there would be any balance issues caused by rerouting them along the perimeter and then between the joists to where they need to go. Ideally if there's room in the mechanical area behind the left wall on the floorplan. Otherwise they would need to run alongside to the 2' duct inside the theater, making the soffit on that wall wider.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> If those two 12" ducts each just supply one vent each, I don't there would be any balance issues caused by rerouting them along the perimeter and then between the joists to where they need to go. Ideally if there's room in the mechanical area behind the left wall on the floorplan. Otherwise they would need to run alongside to the 2' duct inside the theater, making the soffit on that wall wider.


Thanks, We are going to look into some flex ducting to re route the HVAC runs you marked. The even bigger mess is going to be the 24" inch duct that the 12" duct goes around, which makes a 36" intrusion into the room at around 5' from the floor.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Thanks, We are going to look into some flex ducting to re route the HVAC runs you marked. The even bigger mess is going to be the 24" inch duct that the 12" duct goes around, which makes a 36" intrusion into the room at around 5' from the floor.


5 feet? Ouch. Well the first thing I'd recommend is to tear out the drywall in that doorway to the mechanical room, and possibly make some changes to the framing there in order to raise that big duct up as much as possible at the low point where it enters the room. The other thing that would likely help you the most would be to replace it with some rigid rectangular ducting, that can be wider and shorter than round ducts, and remove all the insulation. Since the duct will be covered in drywall anyway, the insulation won't be necessary.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I will see if we can rip out the drywall today to see how we can re route the ducting. A friend is coming over this weekend that does HVAC installs to assess the problem and we might also get a new furnace as the one we have now is around 15-20 years (or maybe even older). From what I understand we most likely have too big of a furnace to boot since that was the practice back then. I am hoping we can replace it with a quieter, more efficient, and smaller unit which might also help with the ducting routing. I also have a Aprilaire 4 zone HVAC controller BNIB that I would like to install. I think this will also allow us to go even smaller on the HVAC or at the very least lower our monthly heating bills more.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Another question: If I build a cubby hole for the audio rack... How do I keep it cool while at the same time keep the room sealed? Do I vent it into the room with a small fan, and put the rack on sliders for access?


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Another question: If I build a cubby hole for the audio rack... How do I keep it cool while at the same time keep the room sealed? Do I vent it into the room with a small fan, and put the rack on sliders for access?


I believe a dead vent into a different room with a silent in-line exhaust fan is the most effective method. If you're doing a cubby, having a rolling rack will help a lot for access.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Well I ordered my clips, and putty pads today. The old wiring was removed from the old walls today, and some of the new insulation was installed. It is nice to have the wiring streamlined. We also painted the old circuit breaker box so now we will be re labeling everything properly, plus we will be installing the Leviton Whole House Surge Protector.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Look what arrived today...
[URL=http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/ellisr63/media/20140228_150354_zpsfaf25df7.jpg.html][/URL]

We finished up with getting rid of all the excess phone lines, electric wires, and cables, and while we were cutting out the area for the audio rack my Horns and drivers showed up! Man they are BIG! You can see them next to my La Scala bass bin and also the Danley subs. I can't wait to get them hooked up. The MiniDSPs are on the way too.


----------



## ewardjr69

I know I'm a little late in the thread but can you explain the specs for the drivers and horns? I've never seen anything like that in my life. Seriously impressive! If you've gone through this earlier in the thread let me know and I'll take a trip through the thread. I'm really excited to see how your project turns out.

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ewardjr69 said:


> I know I'm a little late in the thread but can you explain the specs for the drivers and horns? I've never seen anything like that in my life. Seriously impressive! If you've gone through this earlier in the thread let me know and I'll take a trip through the thread. I'm really excited to see how your project turns out.
> 
> Sent from my iPad using HTShack


Here are the specs on the horns... The horns from what I understand won an Academy Award years ago for sound. We will be using different drivers so the performance will not be quite the same. I am hoping that these sound almost as good as the Klipsch Jubilee speakers (the best Klipsch has ever made). I will be driving them with Topping 20-30wpc amps as they are so efficient I will be hitting way in excess of reference levels with less than 1 watt of power. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

My friend came over today and we solved the HVAC problem... We will be switching from a downdraft 30 year old furnace to a modern updraft furnace. The big intake 24" duct will be removed, and run under the floor to a new location. We will then be able to raise the other 2 runs up to the ceiling and also run two new lines for out HT. Since we are going with a new furnace we will be installing a AprilAire 4 zone controller, and a 2 zone expansion to give us a 6 zone HVAC. I was told the new HVAC will be dead silent. We will be then be installing a solid core pocket door to conceal it. I am thinking that the way to do it is see if I can get a teflon track and teflon for the bottom of the door so it will slide easy and not rattle. We will get or make some sort of seal that will apply some pressure to both sides of the door so it won't rattle. We went to HD, and looked at the slabs and will be picking up one for the behind the screen access.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Ron that is good to hear about the HVAC, good to have friends in the business. Those are some large horns, what model are they the 2360 or 2365. I know there are 3 at a local shop, if I wasn't all ready invested in my EV horns I would have jumped on a deal he had made.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Ron that is good to hear about the HVAC, good to have friends in the business. Those are some large horns, what model are they the 2360 or 2365. I know there are 3 at a local shop, if I wasn't all ready invested in my EV horns I would have jumped on a deal he had made.


2360 with EV DHA-1 drivers.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I am trying to figure out where to run the side surround channels... Should they be lined up with the first row of seating or should they be between the 1st row and 2nd row? I need to get this nailed down as I am going to be most likely mounting them up high on the walls. 

We have also decided to go back to a 3 1/2" sub floor so we can nicely run all the electrical and speaker wires there. The height channels and projector wires will all go straight up through the wall to the soffit to their desired locations. Another option would be to keep running them all in the floor but it will take quite a bit more wire I think. Hmm... gonna have to think that one out some more. The rear channels will be high on the rear wall and have diffusers all around them. I am planning on doing a full fabric covered room of boxes and rectangles... Some will have absorption behind them and others will have diffusers all of the panels will be different depths to give a random look to them.

How does this sound? 


Every step brings it closer to completion but also brings on changes to the plan due to better options.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Ron that driver is the one that normally comes with the horns I am using. Bet its going to sound good. As far as the surrounds go you want them approx 90-110 degrees from the listener. This is a tough decision as do you want optimal sound for the front row, or split the difference between that and the second row. I choose to split the difference, and move them back a bit. Using bigger speakers I am hoping this will help compensate for being a little out. 

On the wiring I would run it up the wall and down the joist or sofit to the desired location. Keep up the good work.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Ron that driver is the one that normally comes with the horns I am using. Bet its going to sound good. As far as the surrounds go you want them approx 90-110 degrees from the listener. This is a tough decision as do you want optimal sound for the front row, or split the difference between that and the second row. I choose to split the difference, and move them back a bit. Using bigger speakers I am hoping this will help compensate for being a little out.
> 
> On the wiring I would run it up the wall and down the joist or sofit to the desired location. Keep up the good work.


What horns are you using?

I am debating on using either the Heresy Industrials or the KP 3002 for the side surrounds... Any suggestions? The HIPs are a 3 way, and the KP3002 are 2 ways. but almost as tall as my La Scalas were.


----------



## MrAngles

ellisr63 said:


> I am trying to figure out where to run the side surround channels... Should they be lined up with the first row of seating or should they be between the 1st row and 2nd row? I need to get this nailed down as I am going to be most likely mounting them up high on the walls.
> 
> We have also decided to go back to a 3 1/2" sub floor so we can nicely run all the electrical and speaker wires there. The height channels and projector wires will all go straight up through the wall to the soffit to their desired locations. Another option would be to keep running them all in the floor but it will take quite a bit more wire I think. Hmm... gonna have to think that one out some more. The rear channels will be high on the rear wall and have diffusers all around them. I am planning on doing a full fabric covered room of boxes and rectangles... Some will have absorption behind them and others will have diffusers all of the panels will be different depths to give a random look to them.
> 
> How does this sound?
> 
> Every step brings it closer to completion but also brings on changes to the plan due to better options.


I think it depends on preference a little. From my experience I like my surround speakers to be behind me, or at the very least directly to the side of my ears, never in front. I also planned to use my back row at least as much as the front row. So I put mine slightly behind my back row. I definitely hear them more in the back row, but they are always coming from the right direction. 

As far as the subfloor goes, if you're only doing it for running wires it seems like an awful lot of expense, not to mention diminishing your ceiling height, when you could just use conduit and put everything in the ceiling. To get wires to my bar and riser I put in a small raised floor section behind the bar, rather than raising the entire floor.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> I think it depends on preference a little. From my experience I like my surround speakers to be behind me, or at the very least directly to the side of my ears, never in front. I also planned to use my back row at least as much as the front row. So I put mine slightly behind my back row. I definitely hear them more in the back row, but they are always coming from the right direction.
> 
> As far as the subfloor goes, if you're only doing it for running wires it seems like an awful lot of expense, not to mention diminishing your ceiling height, when you could just use conduit and put everything in the ceiling. To get wires to my bar and riser I put in a small raised floor section behind the bar, rather than raising the entire floor.


Well I figured it would also give me the tactile feel when the subs are running... Plus if I put the 2 DTS-10 subs under the second row I will need to have the front row a little higher or they won't clear the raised platform when someone reclines as the back of the seat will be almost right next to the platform. The reason for the seating platform like this is the seats are designed to be up against the back wall and when you recline the seat rolls out frontwards... Which is real nice but then it takes up the walking area and I have to extend that a bit more. too.


----------



## MrAngles

ellisr63 said:


> Well I figured it would also give me the tactile feel when the subs are running... Plus if I put the 2 DTS-10 subs under the second row I will need to have the front row a little higher or they won't clear the raised platform when someone reclines as the back of the seat will be almost right next to the platform. The reason for the seating platform like this is the seats are designed to be up against the back wall and when you recline the seat rolls out frontwards... Which is real nice but then it takes up the walking area and I have to extend that a bit more. too.


As long as it doesn’t hurt you too much on your headroom. I'm thinking about your HVAC soffit near the entrance mostly. The LF transmission and recliner headroom can be solved in other ways, but ceiling/floor height can't be changed later.


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

What no jubilee bass bins?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> As long as it doesn’t hurt you too much on your headroom. I'm thinking about your HVAC soffit near the entrance mostly. The LF transmission and recliner headroom can be solved in other ways, but ceiling/floor height can't be changed later.


My seating in the 2nd row will be 2' from the wall, so it won't be effected by the soffit. Our ceiling right now is 9' so we will still have around 6 1/2' or more after the soffit and raised floor.

When I do my diffusers on the rear wall, do I do the whole wall floor to ceiling or do I just do the part that is above the seats when they are fully reclined?

One other reason for doing the wiring in the floor is we figured it would be easier to access if we ever needed to get at it under the carpet vs in the walls. .


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



chrapladm said:


> What no jubilee bass bins?


I will be doing DIY 1/4 pie bass bins with JBL 2360A horns. :T I can't even think about how much it would cost to go the Jubilee route. I went with the JBLs because I will only have $700 invested in the pair of horns, drivers whereas the Jubilee horns are $1k each... The bass bins will be around $400-500 total... Jubilee bass bins would be way more. I will have less invested in the bass bins, horns, drivers, and minidsp than just a pair of Jubilee horns and drivers would cost. Way over budget for me for Jubilees, with hopefully not a lot of difference in sound.


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I would only go Jubs if I DIY them. I have seen a few threads on others building DIY versions. PLUS there is also the Jamboree and other bass bins designs you can build yourself. Either way you will have plenty. I was just mess'n with ya.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



chrapladm said:


> I would only go Jubs if I DIY them. I have seen a few threads on others building DIY versions. PLUS there is also the Jamboree and other bass bins designs you can build yourself. Either way you will have plenty. I was just mess'n with ya.


The DIYs I saw on the Jubilees didn't look easy by any means. Check out the DIY for the 1/4 pie bass bins... You should be able to whip them up in a day! :T


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



chrapladm said:


> What no jubilee bass bins?


Now that would be the way to go.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



chrapladm said:


> I would only go Jubs if I DIY them. I have seen a few threads on others building DIY versions. PLUS there is also the Jamboree and other bass bins designs you can build yourself. Either way you will have plenty. I was just mess'n with ya.


There you go.



chrapladm said:


> PLUS there is also the Jamboree and other bass bins designs you can build yourself.


Now we're talking.

Jubilees bass bins I think run approx 4000-6000 depending on finish for a pair, not including crossovers.

The K402 with drivers run approx 2000.00 Just saying, that is a lot of dough for someone who is trying to be budget friendly, Someone just sold a pair with passive networks, 510 horns and drivers for under 5500.00. That would have been a deal.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I wouldn't have even went with the JBLs if I hadn't found out I could get away with the miniDSPs for crossovers.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> What horns are you using?
> 
> I am debating on using either the Heresy Industrials or the KP 3002 for the side surrounds... Any suggestions? The HIPs are a 3 way, and the KP3002 are 2 ways. but almost as tall as my La Scalas were.


I am using EV hp 640s for the left and right with the Faital pro hf200 drivers. The center will be a Lascala bass bin with a p audio ph 4525 horn with bm d750(aka K69, which is what they put on the K402).


As for your surround I think the HIPs would be the way to go since they are smaller. I know some like to use their Cornwalls for surrounds but I think its way over kill. Now since the Kp3002 are 2 ways they may match better with your customer fronts. One idea is sell both and pick up 2 pairs of the Kpt-100 which I think would be ideal. 

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/144995-kpt-100s-restored-and-ready-to-ship/


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I am using EV hp 640s for the left and right with the Faital pro hf200 drivers. The center will be a Lascala bass bin with a p audio ph 4525 horn with bm d750(aka K69, which is what they put on the K402).
> 
> 
> As for your surround I think the HIPs would be the way to go since they are smaller. I know some like to use their Cornwalls for surrounds but I think its way over kill. Now since the Kp3002 are 2 ways they may match better with your customer fronts. One idea is sell both and pick up 2 pairs of the Kpt-100 which I think would be ideal.
> 
> https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/144995-kpt-100s-restored-and-ready-to-ship/


How do you like the Faitals? I have the HF14 drivers (same as the ones you have but without the 2" adapter) I am waiting on my 2" adapters, and then I will be installing them in my 2 EV940 horns, and 1 EV9040 Horn which will be setup on my 3 La Scala bass bins. The EV9040 horn will become my center and the EV940s will become my width channels. Yeah, I thought about the 100s but I decided to go with the more efficient HIPs, and KP 3002. I was real tempted to sell the HIPs and get another set of the 3002s though. What keeps me with the HIPs is that they are small enough that I could use them for heights in the front. I think I will sell the SR-70s though.

So how does the Faital driver compare to the original EV driver?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I haven't really given the Faitals a chance yet, are the 9040s large horns.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I haven't really given the Faitals a chance yet, are the 9040s large horns.


Here ya go...https://www.google.com/search?q=ev+...8&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 The 9040 is similar to the JBL 2360A horn.

Sorry but it wouldn't let me copy the pdf address.


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I feel like I am going down memory lane for the Klipsch lineup.  402's, 510, MTM's ect. I wish I had the room. Jealous

I do remember seeing the 1/4 pie build. I have always kept my eye on horn builds from the Klipsch guys. JWC and others. Looks like a great design that will reach down to about 30hz I think.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today we got the walls up for the area behind the screen for the speakers. Hopefully in tomorrow we will get it all sealed off, and insulated. I have discovered that we have room for the height channels if we put them in the corners about a foot behind the Width channels. Will that be ok? If not we can put them in front of the screen close to the ceiling, but it is not as good of a location as the corners would be as the corners will allow the screen to be higher on the wall.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I cant answer your question on the speakers, but good job on getting some work done. Can't wait to see some pics.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Hopefully i will be able to get some pics tomorrow. :T


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Definitely need some more pics.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I think a foot behind would be ok - are you planning to use Audyssey or a like piece of software? It should be able to handle the delays and such without an issue...


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I think a foot behind would be ok - are you planning to use Audyssey or a like piece of software? It should be able to handle the delays and such without an issue...


Yes, I have the Denon 4520ci... This going to work out fine then as when we opened up the wall we saw a cavity that we can use to mount the heights. :T


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Yes, I have the Denon 4520ci... This going to work out fine then as when we opened up the wall we saw a cavity that we can use to mount the heights. :T


Great unit - I seriously LOVED what XT32 did for my system....


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We worked on constructing the second row flooring platform today... It is built containing the 2 DTS SuoerSPUDS. The whole cavity of the second floor platform will be filled with R30 insulation stacked until it is at the top of the platform surrounding the DTS subs. We are also building a little 2x4 frame around the sub exit point (sealing the sub to a grill in the platform floor), and another one for accessing the subs in case we ever have to. The subs have r30 insulation under them providing very dense padding between the 2x4 and them plus filling the 1 1/2" cavity under the subs. We are going to use the wall isolator clips to isolate the sub from the platform and also to stabilize the subs under the flooring. The room plan has changed just a little (again)... We decided to do a little wall for about 6' where you enter the theater in the drawing (this also eliminates the problem of making doors that seal for the furnace and water heater, now we can just make a quiet pocket door). At the end of the wall will be a second door to enter the theater. The 2nd door is right where the first step is to go up to the second row of seating... The first step will go all the way to the other side of the row. The speaker wire has been plumbed to the subs already too. On Monday we plan to finish off the rear platform, including plumb for electrical outlets, and run the ac wires up the rear wall for the lighting soffits. Once the walls are fully framed we will be installing the ceiling clips, the wall isolator clips, and then it is OSB, and drywall time.


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

SO where will the exits be on the DTS-10's in the platform?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



chrapladm said:


> SO where will the exits be on the DTS-10's in the platform?


They are exiting upwards in the back corners of the platform... About 2' from each of the corners. :T
I wish that when they were built they would have been built with the exit on the end instead though, as then we could have had it exit out the front of the platform.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Ron, sounds like your making some progress. Is there any way you can test the subs and run a frequency sweep in the position, and flip them and test again. When I say flip them I mean so that the 2 openings are side by side, instead of far apart. I thought I may have read somewhere were this is best. But I could be wrong, maybe try to do a little research.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Ron, sounds like your making some progress. Is there any way you can test the subs and run a frequency sweep in the position, and flip them and test again. When I say flip them I mean so that the 2 openings are side by side, instead of far apart. I thought I may have read somewhere were this is best. But I could be wrong, maybe try to do a little research.


It would be pretty hard to lift them straight out and flip them right now. The reason I went this route is... I am thinking if I need more output I will go for either another pair or a pair ot the Spuds to put in the corners behind the screen. From what I have read one in each corner would be the best. I hope that they will work out well this way.


The one thing that still has me undecided is whether I should have the short hallway or not... Aesthically I think that no hallway is better, but it might be easier to isolate the sound with the short hallway. 

Any comments


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Here is a side shot drawing of the proposed layout...


Here is a drawing of from the back wall to the front...


Here is an overhead shot...



What I am thinking of doing is have a 1'x1' soffit all around the room and have the bottom part of it angle up to the ceiling at 45 degrees... On the front wall I think this might even help with reflections from the projector. I am anticipating having diffusers behind the 2nd row of seating. I am also thinking of putting some bass traps in all 4 corners angled across the corner coming out about 2' across... These would go floor to ceiling except in the front where the height channels are. I am also thinking that all of the soffits except for the HVAC ones could be filled with sound dampening materials and then covered in a dark (maybe black) acoustic material. I really like the look of random depth fabric box walls that I saw someone else use and would like to do all the walls with those. As far as the ceiling I could also use floating absorption panels. 

The reason for the projector soffit is two fold... One is to hide the wires, and the other is in case I ever want to change the projector I can then move it forward or backward with out a complete mess in the ceiling.


How does that sound? Suggestions? Comments?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We are making the sub floor out of 2x4s doubled up on their sides (3" high)... We are putting fiberglass insulation under the flooring that is R19, is that ok (as it will be smashed where the cross beams are?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today we got about 80% of the sub floor framed and the OSB cut for it. Monday we hope to finish the sub floor and get the short wall completed. I am waiting on some 12 gauge Speakon cable for the Danleys... Which hopefully will be in Monday or Tuesday. If it arrives on Monday we might have the 2nd row platform completely framed and covered with OSB. Right now we have around 7' between the ceiling and the 2nd row platform. The 12" soffit will bring it to 6' but it will only be for 1' from the wall and the recliners or couches will be 2' from the wall.

I hope to get some pics up Monday night. The OSB is just held down now with 4 screws per board until we get the wiring all run, and the fiberglass insulation in. If everything goes well this week we might be doing the OSB layer on the ceiling, and walls (we are doing a layer of OSB on the ceiling, and new walls as we will be attaching the soffits to them).


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today we got 3 walls framed, partially insulated, and partially covered with OSB.




Still waiting on the speaker wire, and some Sorbathane disks to rest the subs on under the platform. As soon as we have both we will be able to seal up the platform. I have decided to move the subs before we close them up... We will move them 90 degrees so they are not in the corners. From what I understand the bass won't be as loud but it will be smoother across all the seating locations.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Question: If the insulation I install touches the insulation in the second wall will it reduce the STC rating of a double wall construction?


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> It would be pretty hard to lift them straight out and flip them right now. The reason I went this route is... I am thinking if I need more output I will go for either another pair or a pair ot the Spuds to put in the corners behind the screen. From what I have read one in each corner would be the best. I hope that they will work out well this way.
> 
> 
> The one thing that still has me undecided is whether I should have the short hallway or not... Aesthically I think that no hallway is better, but it might be easier to isolate the sound with the short hallway.
> 
> Any comments


I like the idea of the short hallway for more potential sound isolation. It really works well in Sonnie's design.



ellisr63 said:


> Here is a side shot drawing of the proposed layout...
> 
> 
> Here is a drawing of from the back wall to the front...
> 
> 
> Here is an overhead shot...
> 
> 
> 
> What I am thinking of doing is have a 1'x1' soffit all around the room and have the bottom part of it angle up to the ceiling at 45 degrees... On the front wall I think this might even help with reflections from the projector. I am anticipating having diffusers behind the 2nd row of seating. I am also thinking of putting some bass traps in all 4 corners angled across the corner coming out about 2' across... These would go floor to ceiling except in the front where the height channels are. I am also thinking that all of the soffits except for the HVAC ones could be filled with sound dampening materials and then covered in a dark (maybe black) acoustic material. I really like the look of random depth fabric box walls that I saw someone else use and would like to do all the walls with those. As far as the ceiling I could also use floating absorption panels.
> 
> The reason for the projector soffit is two fold... One is to hide the wires, and the other is in case I ever want to change the projector I can then move it forward or backward with out a complete mess in the ceiling.
> 
> 
> How does that sound? Suggestions? Comments?


That sounds like a good plan to me. By the way, one thing just dawned on me - are you or have you considered doing a two door design for more isolation?



ellisr63 said:


> We are making the sub floor out of 2x4s doubled up on their sides (3" high)... We are putting fiberglass insulation under the flooring that is R19, is that ok (as it will be smashed where the cross beams are?


I think you should be good to go with that.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Question: If the insulation I install touches the insulation in the second wall will it reduce the STC rating of a double wall construction?


Sorry - between the speaker event, newsletter, kids sports, etc, ad nauseum, I am way behind on my posts...

Yes, it will. You do allow for transference when those two surfaces come in contact.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I like the idea of the short hallway for more potential sound isolation. It really works well in Sonnie's design.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like a good plan to me. By the way, one thing just dawned on me - are you or have you considered doing a two door design for more isolation?
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should be good to go with that.


Do you mean to use 3 doors...We are using a door on each end of the hallway already.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Do you mean to use 3 doors...We are using a door on each end of the hallway already.


I just realized I did not explain that well. I meant using two doors at the entry to your HT - I know there is a specific term for this, but it cannot remember it ATM. One door swings out and the other swings in - in essence, it makes your entryway double thick with a bit a bit of dead air space between the two doors.

Not sure if Sonnie has a picture up of it, but it is what he did for his entry.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I just realized I did not explain that well. I meant using two doors at the entry to your HT - I know there is a specific term for this, but it cannot remember it ATM. One door swings out and the other swings in - in essence, it makes your entryway double thick with a bit a bit of dead air space between the two doors.
> 
> Not sure if Sonnie has a picture up of it, but it is what he did for his entry.


Gotcha... Not sure about doing 3 doors in a 6' space, as it means we will also have to raise the first door up off the ground as there are 2 steps leading upwards on the outside.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> Sorry - between the speaker event, newsletter, kids sports, etc, ad nauseum, I am way behind on my posts...
> 
> Yes, it will. You do allow for transference when those two surfaces come in contact.


I was all ready to tear the walls we did back down... I called the Soundproofing Company to order some GG and double checked with them, and they said no problem. They said that what is meant by transference is a hard surface not the soft surface that R19 fiberglass insulation would make by putting 2x6 or 2x8 insulation in a 2x4 frame.

So that means we will make some good progress today, as we don't have to tear anything else back down again. :T


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I was all ready to tear the walls we did back down... I called the Soundproofing Company to order some GG and double checked with them, and they said no problem. They said that what is meant by transference is a hard surface not the soft surface that R19 fiberglass insulation would make by putting 2x6 or 2x8 insulation in a 2x4 frame.
> 
> So that means we will make some good progress today, as we don't have to tear anything else back down again. :T


That is good to hear - I wonder if what I read applied when the insulation was compressed... Going to have to find that again to see....


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

The bad thing I found out today was we have to rip out the wall that is between the house and the garage as it would be a triple leaf. It will take a while but it will also be replaced with a double 2x4 wall. We have almost got the stadium style stairs completed... All the AC ducts are now gone, Hopefully this weekend I will get the replacement ducts.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We are running our speaker wires and electrical wire in the morning...

Questions:
1. Where should I put the speakers on the back wall? The back platform is about 4' off center due to the hallway... Should I put them in the corners close to the ceiling? The speakers will be the Klipsch Heresy HIPs, and there will be a 1' soffit along the ceiling (which you can see part of in the picture... It is the open area along the right hand side of the wall).

2. The side channels will be the Klipsch KP 3002 pro speakers and will be put almost lined up with the front row seating... Should the speakers be up close to the ceiling or on the floor? They are close to 3' tall. They will be mounted in a column to conceal them.



3. We are looking at 3 outlet boxes for the first row, and 3 for the second row... Will that be enough? Should I run a cat 5 cable to each chair for lan access (I am not happy with our wireless)?

4. For lighting we are looking at LED dimmable spotlights, LED rope lighting along the soffits, LED rope lighting along the steps, LED rope lighting along the ceiling in the hallway, and maybe fiber optic Stars. I figure 4 wall switches max, is that enough?

5. Anything I am forgetting? Suggestions?

tia,
Ron


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today we spent a good portion removing a reverse osmosis water filtration which was on the wall in the garage... I don't know what they were thinking when they installed it the way they did but we finally got it removed. We also ran our electrical wires in the floor to the 4 gang wall switch and installed 1 Insteon light switch. We received our Sorbathane pads that we will be putting beneath the Danley DTS-10 subs to help isolate them from the 2nd row seating platform. Thursday we plan on getting the sew Speakon wires run for the subs, finish off the insulation in the floor and button up all of the flooring. If we have time we will get the new inner wall built that will be covering the old garage door. Today I also started caulking the garage door to seal it off and hopefully stop any vibrations from happening.

Should the Klipsch KP3002 (floor standing speakers) be installed on the ground as side surround speakers or be close to the ceiling? The consensus so far has been to install the Heresy HIPs behind the 2nd row seats about 2-3' apart centered on the front screen not the 2nd row seating area. Hopefully by this weekend we will have all the OSB up and waiting for the Green Glue.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Ron, I may have missed it but did you decide if you were going to put the KP3002 right on the side of the first row.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Ron, I may have missed it but did you decide if you were going to put the KP3002 right on the side of the first row.


Yeah it looks like that will be the best spot for it. Now the question is... Should it be at ground level or up by the ceiling? I am thinking it might be better to mount them up by the ceiling since they will be so close to the front row seats... We will be building a column around to conceal them. The Heresy HIPs will be the surround backs mainly because they are not as deep as the 3002s (which leave a little more room). The rear wall will most likely be diffusers floor to ceiling, and around the HIPs. I am thinking some angled bass traps in the corners might be nice too, or maybe make some corner diffusers. I have the plans for making the diffusers but not for corner ones.

I can't wait to get the room all drywalled so we can start installing all the equipment, and tuning the room.

I am using this as a reference for speaker layout... http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/surround-sound-speaker-set-up/

Except my subs will be in the rear for now... If I add more I will put them behind the front wides.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I am wondering if I should center the DTS sub under the 2nd row seats and put the other one behind the center channel... What do you think? Thursday it dill be final.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I was thinking something like this. But since your have the raised second row, yes move them up closer to the ceiling. This puts the horn about 4' off of the ground but maybe go another 4' if you can. They say its good to have one sub centered in the rear and one centered in the front.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I was thinking something like this. But since your have the raised second row, yes move them up closer to the ceiling. This puts the horn about 4' off of the ground but maybe go another 4' if you can. They say its good to have one sub centered in the rear and one centered in the front.


I wonder if it will make a difference if the sub in the rear is on its side and the one in the front is on its end. Also I wonder if the opening of the one under the floor should have the opening close to the wall or close to the front of the platform? If it close to the front of the platform the front seats will hear and feel it more I think, but if it is at the rear it will be loaded off of the rear wall I think.

This might also mean I will only need 2 subs instead of 4. :T

Would it be about right to raise the 3002 all the way to the soffits... They will be a 12" drop from the ceiling?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I just calculated out the GG cost... I will need 6 gallons to do the ceiling and the walls. It will be close to $2k for the green glue. That is going to be more than I can budget. I have double studded walls, and clips for decoupling the walls from the ceiling and also channels for the ceiling. If I forgo the GG, how much would I lose in STC? Could I just add another layer of Drywall, and make some of it up? I have seen where the STC of a double wall with 2 layers is around 60 STC which I think should be enough.

What do you think? Is everyone doing the GG? Has anyone not used GG and not been happy with their room?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I wonder if it will make a difference if the sub in the rear is on its side and the one in the front is on its end. Also I wonder if the opening of the one under the floor should have the opening close to the wall or close to the front of the platform? If it close to the front of the platform the front seats will hear and feel it more I think, but if it is at the rear it will be loaded off of the rear wall I think.
> 
> This might also mean I will only need 2 subs instead of 4. :T
> 
> Would it be about right to raise the 3002 all the way to the soffits... They will be a 12" drop from the ceiling?


I don't think it will matter too much, I don't think you are going to gain a whole lot of db increase with more subs. I just think it helps smooth things out. You can start with 2 wire for 4 and see how it goes. 

Wish I could answer the gg question, but haven't got to that stage yet. But I am only doing the ceiling, I did read were someone just double up drywall and added insulation and that helped a bit. I am doing 2 layers of 5/8 with gg on the ceiling, 3 out of 4 of my walls are brick. The 4th is the stair case which I added mass, and the other half shares the wall with the utility room.


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I just calculated out the GG cost... I will need 6 gallons to do the ceiling and the walls. It will be close to $2k for the green glue. That is going to be more than I can budget. I have double studded walls, and clips for decoupling the walls from the ceiling and also channels for the ceiling. If I forgo the GG, how much would I lose in STC? Could I just add another layer of Drywall, and make some of it up? I have seen where the STC of a double wall with 2 layers is around 60 STC which I think should be enough.
> 
> What do you think? Is everyone doing the GG? Has anyone not used GG and not been happy with their room?


???? A five gallon pail is < $300.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> ???? A five gallon pail is < $300.


I need 5-6 pails... My wife is really getting on me for spending all the money on the HT, and I need to get it done ASAP before she really gets mad at me.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today this is what we got accomplished:
1. floor completed except for the part that is behind the screen
2. centered one sub in the platform and removed the other one for the front of the room behind the screen
3. ran the wires for the sub in the platform
4. ran the wire for the right side side surround
5. sealed off the 2nd row seating platform. 
6. ran the electrical for the seating areas, and for the equipment rack

On Saturday we plan on finishing the demo on the wall that connects to the house, build the double wall for it, build the double wall for the area behind the screen, insulate the newly constructed walls, and hopefully get the OSB on the new walls.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Is the Monoprice Redmere HDMI cable good for a 50' length?


----------



## dougc

They are supposed to be good that far as long as they are the Redmere. They do not support arc as they are a one way only cable.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



dougc said:


> They are supposed to be good that far as long as they are the Redmere. They do not support arc as they are a one way only cable.


I think I will go with it then... I just want to make sure they are good at that length. I have used their shorter length up to about 15' and they were excellent. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

It took most of the day today to demo the remaining wall... I don't know what they were thinking when they built this house! They used 1/4" plywood nailed every 3" under the drywall!

Afterwards we went to the local theater and watched Robocop... When the movie was done I asked if we could see what speakers they had behind the screen. The said sure and we got a peek... They were the same JBLs 2360s that we are using in our build! We also got some ideas on how to do our stair lighting.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

What do I use for a door frame for a solid core door? I have heard that I shouldn't use the door frames that you can buy at HD or Lowes due to the weight of the door... I have heard it should be made out of 2x. What are others using?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

You can get a pre-hung door with the framing already attached that's sufficient for the weight.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> You can get a pre-hung door with the framing already attached that's sufficient for the weight.


A friend of mine is giving me some solid core doors... Can we use the old door frames then, or do we need to make some heavier duty ones? I saw some at HD that were on the pre hung doors that appeared to be just normal door frames (not heavy duty)... Would they be fine if we need to buy a new frame?


----------



## bpape

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I would think it would be OK. If more support is needed, adding another hinge would be the best way to go.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Yes adding another hinge or once you get the door hung. Remove 2 screws from the hinge on the jamb side and install longer beefier screws. That way the screws will go into the stud the jamb is mounted to. I myself will be considering building my own door and jamb so I can customize it a little more.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



bpape said:


> I would think it would be OK. If more support is needed, adding another hinge would be the best way to go.


:T


duder1982 said:


> Yes adding another hinge or once you get the door hung. Remove 2 screws from the hinge on the jamb side and install longer beefier screws. That way the screws will go into the stud the jamb is mounted to. I myself will be considering building my own door and jamb so I can customize it a little more.


:T

My friend and I are planning on adding wood to the outer side (side facing away from the HT) skin of the door and adding acoustic treatment to the other side of the door (HT hallway side) for one of the doors. The other door will get acoustic treatment to both sides of the door. Does this sound like it will be ok?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have been looking at door seals... One thing I noticed is they are only good for 40-50 STC. If you are building your room for a 60 STC are you wasting your money since the doors will be lower?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> :T
> 
> 
> :T
> 
> My friend and I are planning on adding wood to the outer side (side facing away from the HT) skin of the door and adding acoustic treatment to the other side of the door (HT hallway side) for one of the doors. The other door will get acoustic treatment to both sides of the door. Does this sound like it will be ok?


Thats some what, what my idea was so I hope so.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I have been looking at door seals... One thing I noticed is they are only good for 40-50 STC. If you are building your room for a 60 STC are you wasting your money since the doors will be lower?


Ron,

I added the automatic door jambs to my entry door. I think besides increasing the STC rating of the door, the added benefit was that it made the room more pressurized which really helped the LFE.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Thanks for the responses.

I think we will add MDF to the door skin on the theater side of the outer door... I am not sure if we should do it on the other side of the door as it is 5' from a 7400 gallon indoor pond, and I am worried about MDF and moisture. I am also thinking of making acoustic panels to match the fabric covered room panels for the doors.


----------



## MrAngles

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I need 5-6 pails... My wife is really getting on me for spending all the money on the HT, and I need to get it done ASAP before she really gets mad at me.


5-6 pails is an awful lot... it should still only be $1200 for 6 pails though unless the price has gone up, definitely not $2k if you're buying from the soundproofing company.

You could consider only doing double drywall on the interior side of the theater walls instead of both sides, or using only a tube and a half or one tube of green glue on each panel, or use two tubes per panel on the ceiling and only one tube per panel on the walls. Some green glue is better than no green glue at all. Are you still planning to do a layer of OSB plus two layers of drywall on the walls? That's really pretty overkill. Two layers of drywall or one layer of OSB + one layer of drywall will be plenty.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I am going to look at what doors my friend has for me in the morning... I think I might go with steel doors if they are massive enough, and then add the MDF to them. I am debating on buying the seals for the top, and sides of the doors too or just making some out of wood. The reason for this is $$$. I was browsing online and to do the seals all around the door it was like $500 per door.

Any suggestions or comments?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



MrAngles said:


> 5-6 pails is an awful lot... it should still only be $1200 for 6 pails though unless the price has gone up, definitely not $2k if you're buying from the soundproofing company.
> 
> You could consider only doing double drywall on the interior side of the theater walls instead of both sides, or using only a tube and a half or one tube of green glue on each panel, or use two tubes per panel on the ceiling and only one tube per panel on the walls. Some green glue is better than no green glue at all. Are you still planning to do a layer of OSB plus two layers of drywall on the walls? That's really pretty overkill. Two layers of drywall or one layer of OSB + one layer of drywall will be plenty.


4 pails is $1229 shipped. So 6 pails would be in the $1800 range from the Soundproofing Company. I am out of cash at the moment so we are doing what we can. If I end up getting the cash for it before we make it to the second layer I will go the GG route still. I fully anticipate it being a month or so before we get to that stage as we will only be working a day or 2 per week on it.

We are only doing OSB, GG, Drywall on one side of the walls already. The estimate was for doing 2 tubes per sheet... I know that some people do 1 tube and some do 3 tubes per sheet.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I picked up another matching power recliner for the front row which brings the front row to 3. We are thinking of making the front row curved and then also looking for a modular couch for the second row that would also be curved.

We are still trying to work out the HVAC cold air intake... We are thinking of getting some 8" flex to run in a soffit behind the screen and dump it into the main part of the house where the cold air intake is for the rest of the house. What we are thinking is to zig zag about 50' of the flex pipe in the soffit. Does that sound like it will work?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

If your talking return for you hvac. I don't why it would hurt, we have returns in all the upstairs rooms and they are probably over 50' long. I would just try to keep it as strait as possible.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> If your talking return for you hvac. I don't why it would hurt, we have returns in all the upstairs rooms and they are probably over 50' long. I would just try to keep it as strait as possible.


The idea of a long return line is to try and absorb any noise from exiting the room to the other areas of the home. I was told to do it in a "S" shape so the sound waves will hit the sides of it and cancel. I was just not sure if it will be enough to cancel all the sound from exiting.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

OK then disregard my input, I thought you were asking from a hvac performance stand point. This is good to know, as this may be what I need to do to get the sounds that travel through out the air ducts to quite down a bit.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> OK then disregard my input, I thought you were asking from a hvac performance stand point. This is good to know, as this may be what I need to do to get the sounds that travel through out the air ducts to quite down a bit.


No problem... I should have explained it better. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today we got one of our solid core wood doors hung... It was a 36" wide 2" thick door. We made our own framework for the door out of 2x6s, and made the door seals for the top, and sides out of 2x4s. The bottom seal will be purchased. We still have to get the foam for sealing the door but at least we have a nice wide surface to use as a door stop in the frame and to seal against.

Now I am looking to see where I can get the nice long bar style handles they have on the Theater doors, and also a door closer. They short hallway between the 2 doors is inclined just like the Theaters do too. I hope to have some more pics up this Sunday.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I seem to recall another build thread where the person had to find longer door handles...if I can remember where I saw it, I will post up a link.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I seem to recall another build thread where the person had to find longer door handles...if I can remember where I saw it, I will post up a link.


Thanks, I am going for a commercial style pull handle for one side, and on the other side you will just push the door open. Both doors will have hydraulic door closers on them.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Question... When you walk into the HT there is a short hallway, the right side wall is attached to the inner room wall but not attached to the outer wall due to the double wall construction. Normally if there was a communicating door right next to the other the space could be caulked as it would only be like 1/4" gap but in our situation there is a couple of inches. How do we seal that area off? Do we get some thick rubber and attached it to each wall?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Is it something that will be seen, or covered up with trim. If covered up with trim, I would think great stuff for doors and windows. If not you need a backing like foam rope to shove in there before caulking.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Is it something that will be seen, or covered up with trim. If covered up with trim, I would think great stuff for doors and windows. If not you need a backing like foam rope to shove in there before caulking.


It will be visible as it is the joint for the hallway wall connecting to the outer door wall. So, when we put the OSB up... We should try and close the gap to as little as possible and then caulk it?


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> It will be visible as it is the joint for the hallway wall connecting to the outer door wall. So, when we put the OSB up... We should try and close the gap to as little as possible and then caulk it?


That would be the approach I would take - and did as a matter of fact!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> That would be the approach I would take - and did as a matter of fact!


Thanks, that sounds like the way we will be doing it.

Today we got the main entrance door in... It took quite a while to get done as the old one was 32" wide and the new one is 36" wide, and our house did not want to cooperate. Hopefully next week we will get the hallway ready for the drywall, and soffits. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have a little dilemma. Whoever built the house has a bunch of cat 5 wires that enter the garage (some are being used and some are not, but will be used in the future)... They enter the garage at the ceiling and from the floor, and there is not enough cable to reach where I was planning on installing the 26 port switch. 

Possible solutions...
1. Terminate, and extend all the wires, and put the switch where I had planned to (by the audio rack)
2. Terminate the wires, and install a patch panel, and run new wires to the same spot as in #1.
3. Terminate the wires, and install a patch panel, run short wires, and install the switch in the same location (it would be where the side channel goes inside of a wall column... If I go this way I also need to run AC to the spot ASAP).

Any suggestions? I have a patch panel and the connectors plus the cat5 cable. I have thought about running new wires but the wiring is in the walls of the house already.

tia,
Ron


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I have a little dilemma. Whoever built the house has a bunch of cat 5 wires that enter the garage (some are being used and some are not, but will be used in the future)... They enter the garage at the ceiling and from the floor, and there is not enough cable to reach where I was planning on installing the 26 port switch.
> 
> Possible solutions...
> 1. Terminate, and extend all the wires, and put the switch where I had planned to (by the audio rack)
> 2. Terminate the wires, and install a patch panel, and run new wires to the same spot as in #1.
> 3. Terminate the wires, and install a patch panel, run short wires, and install the switch in the same location (it would be where the side channel goes inside of a wall column... If I go this way I also need to run AC to the spot ASAP).
> 
> Any suggestions? I have a patch panel and the connectors plus the cat5 cable. I have thought about running new wires but the wiring is in the walls of the house already.
> 
> tia,
> Ron


Ron,

I would just go with option 2 - I did something similar where I put my modem and router in my AV closet along with a switch. I ran the wires to a patch panel and then connected all my AV equipment there - have not had any problems at all with signal loss and it looks much cleaner.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> Ron,
> 
> I would just go with option 2 - I did something similar where I put my modem and router in my AV closet along with a switch. I ran the wires to a patch panel and then connected all my AV equipment there - have not had any problems at all with signal loss and it looks much cleaner.


I just ordered a 48 port patch panel... I should have it some time next week. I only have a 26 port switch but I figured better safe than sorry, plus I might be able to use some of the ports for an ELK M1 panel... ie alarm switches. :T


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I just ordered a 48 port patch panel... I should have it some time next week. I only have a 26 port switch but I figured better safe than sorry, plus I might be able to use some of the ports for an ELK M1 panel... ie alarm switches. :T


I used patch panel for speaker, sub, and cable connections too - really cleaned up a mess of wires being able to terminate it all inside a cabinet.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I used patch panel for speaker, sub, and cable connections too - really cleaned up a mess of wires being able to terminate it all inside a cabinet.


The one I ordered has punches... I have another blank panel that uses keystone jacks... I think I will use that one in the rack.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today we picked up the rest of the speakers, hooked up some exterior lights, and completed the exterior door (mostly done) for the HT...


Our door started life as a solid core door and now has 2x6 (reclaimed from our old deck) added to the outside of the door. We went with the rustic look as our Pond area is rustic also. I picked up a 1950s era door pull and we adapted that to the door. We will be using one pull for the exterior door and one for the interior door (for when you exit the HT. The door pull is Lucite and aluminum... It came in a old aluminum finish and I painted it flat black to blend with the door a bit nicer. We still have to finish sealing the door off but we are waiting until we get the pond flooring completed too.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Thats a good looking door, even though it is rustic, it doesn't look sloppy rustic. Good job.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Thats a good looking door, even though it is rustic, it doesn't look sloppy rustic. Good job.


Thanks! We are trying to keep it looking nice but at the same time old, and reuse some of our old deck wood. The inside of the theater will not be rustic at all though. All the walls will be fabric covered and have some Japanese Kimonos (or Kimono silk material) on the walls. We have the LED lighting for the ceiling, and the stairs already too. I am just waiting on getting the $$$ to get some more OSB and then Green Glue and drywall. 
Tomorrow night we plan on mapping out the speakers. We might have to move the screen 2 feet closer to give us room for our speakers. If we do this it will bring the front row up to about 11' from the screen.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Thanks! We are trying to keep it looking nice but at the same time old, and reuse some of our old deck wood. The inside of the theater will not be rustic at all though. All the walls will be fabric covered and have some Japanese Kimonos (or Kimono silk material) on the walls. We have the LED lighting for the ceiling, and the stairs already too. I am just waiting on getting the $$$ to get some more OSB and then Green Glue and drywall.
> Tomorrow night we plan on mapping out the speakers. We might have to move the screen 2 feet closer to give us room for our speakers. If we do this it will bring the front row up to about 11' from the screen.


I forgot Ron - how big is the screen again?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> I forgot Ron - how big is the screen again?


The screen will be 19' wide, but will be masked to whatever I end up being comfortable with for viewing for 2.40, and 16x9 viewing.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> The screen will be 19' wide, but will be masked to whatever I end up being comfortable with for viewing for 2.40, and 16x9 viewing.


Ah, ok, no worries then on potentially having the seating closer...


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

What do most people do for locking up the room? Our HT is accessed from a sunroom but the Sunroom is not really as secure as I would like (windows slide open from the covered deck on the exterior wall, which means they can be opened from outside of the pond area. The window is also 10' wide so I don't think that helps security much. The entry door to the pond is a glass and wood door also.) so I think the HT door should also be secured.


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have always had a drop bar or stick for my sliding glass doer. That door wont be opening at all unless the glass is broken.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



chrapladm said:


> I have always had a drop bar or stick for my sliding glass doer. That door wont be opening at all unless the glass is broken.


Good idea (I will do that for sure)... I am also going to get a good lock for the HT though as I will have too much money invested to leave it protected by a glass door and large window.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Just went to my local Electrical Supply House, and I picked up putty pads for 99 cents each! They are not the fire rated Hilti ones I was buying but these are the Acoustical grey ones. Big savings on these... $.99 vs $5. These do not have the odor of the others, and appear to be identical other than the fire treatment red mix.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Just went to my local Electrical Supply House, and I picked up putty pads for 99 cents each! They are not the fire rated Hilti ones I was buying but these are the Acoustical grey ones. Big savings on these... $.99 vs $5. These do not have the odor of the others, and appear to be identical other than the fire treatment red mix.


Doh! I wish I had found some of those! Great find!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I just looked at the invoice... Dottie 68 sound barrier pad $.912 each. Even less than I thought!  The only thing is they are made of a rubber and not clay... I will see how they work out this weekend and report back. :T


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I just looked at the invoice... Dottie 68 sound barrier pad $.912 each. Even less than I thought!  The only thing is they are made of a rubber and not clay... I will see how they work out this weekend and report back. :T


Sounds good - thanks Ron!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We used the grey ones today... They molded pretty good, and worked fine in our opinion. A nice plus was no sticky hands, and the plastic came off much easier then the Hilti Fire rated. I would definitely recommend them to anyone who doesn't need the fire rated version. The only downside is they don't have the mass of the fire rated ones.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We are planning on running the following lighting, and electrical options, and would like some feedback...

1: LED rope lighting along the floor around the room to illuminate the floor where you walk. The lighting would be hidden and you would only see the glow (hopefully).

2: Our soffits will be 2-3' wide and will house LED Cree style lights around the perimeter of the room with a 6" or so ledge for LED rope lighting. The center of the room ceiling might have the Glow starfield with black lights in the soffits in addition to the LED rope lights. 

3: In the short entranceway hallway we are thinking of using 2 32" flat panels for a "Now Playing", and a Coming Soon" display. The hallway will also have LED rope lighting along the floor to illuminate the short entrance to the 2nd door. I am hoping that we can flush mount them with the Acoustic treatments on the walls.

4: A monitor would be mounted outside of the theater displaying the same movie that is actually playing in the Theater... This would be incase they need to talk to someone or whatever other reason.

5: There are 4 light switches right after you enter the HT for lighting control, along with an Insteon wall outlet.

6. LED lighting in the room behind the AT screen to light up the speakers when the theater is powered up but before the projector is powered up (sort of a show off of the Speakers).

Questions?

1: What would be the best way to utilize the light switches(they are all Insteon and can be automated also)? I was thinking of this: One light switch for the LED lights behind the screen. One light switch for the LED Cree lights. Another one for the LED rope lights in the soffit, and the last light switch for the LED rope lights along the floor. What about the black lights... Should they be on the same switch as the LED rope lighting in the soffits?

2. Each of the doors will have a Insteon switch that can turn on the LED lights when the door is opened (I am thinking I can get them to work on a timer there when the first door is open they stay on for 5 minutes... Now there are w switches so the timer would actually go a little longer because the 2nd door would also have a 5 minute timer on it (this is os it would work in either direction).

3. there will be the 2 FPs in the entrance way which can be controlled via the Insteon wall outlets, and i am thinking that they would be turned on when the system is powered up.

4.The outside Monitor would also be powered by an Insteon outlet, and it would also go active when the system is powered up.

5. Will the LED rope lighting be a distraction if it on during the movie? Should we have 2 circuits for the lighting... One in front of the first row and another for every where behind the first row?

6. Will the soffit lighting be a distraction?

7. Will the Black Lights be a distraction?

8. I can use Insteon outlets for the Black lights if desired too, or should they be tied into one of the other light switches?

Any problems you can see with any of the above or comments about it? Suggestions?

We are trying to get the electrical scenario done this week so we can get the first layer of OSB up in the next 2 weeks.

tia,
Ron


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Anybody?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Sorry buddy, some how I managed to unsubscribe to this thread. I will have to take a min. to read your questions, but will get back to you.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Let me start with this, 

If you want a total theater experience, in my opinion any lights on during the movie would be a distraction. 

Now in my situation, where I have a bar in the back of my room. I will have the 3 drop light over the bar on a separate dimable switch. So if we are having people over where for instance there will be some mingling, then I can dim those down where they can converse eat, drink, etc.. where lighting wouldn't be a issue. I will have sconces instead of rope led, so those them selves will be on a dimable switch as well. Then dividing the rest of the room. I will only have 4 switches 4 zones. 

I would think you would want your leds rope lights on the same circuit. The rest is kind of tuff hopefully this gives you something to work off of.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Let me start with this,
> 
> If you want a total theater experience, in my opinion any lights on during the movie would be a distraction.
> 
> Now in my situation, where I have a bar in the back of my room. I will have the 3 drop light over the bar on a separate dimmable switch. So if we are having people over where for instance there will be some mingling, then I can dim those down where they can converse eat, drink, etc.. where lighting wouldn't be a issue. I will have sconces instead of rope led, so those them selves will be on a dimmable switch as well. Then dividing the rest of the room. I will only have 4 switches 4 zones.
> 
> I would think you would want your leds rope lights on the same circuit. The rest is kind of tuff hopefully this gives you something to work off of.


Well I guess you answered my questions pretty well... I think if I make one zone of rope lighting for the floor area behind the front row, and the hallway on one circuit. Then I can make 3 circuits for the ceiling (spots, rope lights, and black lights), and that should settle it. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Next question:

I need to run 2 HVAC ducts for the room plus a return duct... I am looking at 6" lines for each of the ducts coming off of a 8" duct using a 6 6 8 "Y" (for the 2 ducts), and then a 8" 50' long for the return line. The return line will be zig zagged back and forth behind the screen in the ceiling.

If I run the HVAC lines in a soffit...
1. Can they be run in an open soffit (one that is 2x4 construction stuffed with insulation with fabric covering it)? If I do it this way it will allow for access if needed for the dampers.

2. Will it be noisey with an open soffit design?

3. Can the return line be in an open soffit design too or do I need to lower the whole ceiling behind the AT screen to enclose it?

We are hoping to get this part done this weekend, along with getting the clips and hat channel up.


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Black lights?

Where are those going to be?

I am not a fan of Black lights in general unless going to a dance club. I think your lights for floor lighting will be nice as long as they can be turn down and only shine on the floor. And the sofits would be nice if they only shine on the ceiling and can be turned off when the movie has started.

I have seen open sofit designs before where the sides came off. They were held in with strong velcro and I never even noticed they were removable until the lights were on. They were quite stealthy. So I am sure you can have an open sofit design and still be quiet. Where is Ted, I figured he could answer this and give you some numbers to go by?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



chrapladm said:


> Black lights?
> 
> Where are those going to be?
> 
> I am not a fan of Black lights in general unless going to a dance club. I think your lights for floor lighting will be nice as long as they can be turn down and only shine on the floor. And the sofits would be nice if they only shine on the ceiling and can be turned off when the movie has started.
> 
> I have seen open sofit designs before where the sides came off. They were held in with strong velcro and I never even noticed they were removable until the lights were on. They were quite stealthy. So I am sure you can have an open sofit design and still be quiet. Where is Ted, I figured he could answer this and give you some numbers to go by?


The black lights would be in the soffit edge with the LEDs and would be used for charging the night sky dots like this...  There would be a small lip that would hide them from view. The blue LEDs would give a nice ceiling glow as would the black lights. All the rope lighting will be blue LEDs (or maybe RGB that could change).I am hoping to find dimmable LEDs for the soffits and for the floor.

The open soffit design is like you are talking about with velcro or screws to hold the panels in place. :T

This is similaiar to what I was thinking for the walls and ceiling... 

Here is an idea that is close to what I wanted for the floors except I would have it under the fabric side panels hidden from view except for the glow...


----------



## chrapladm

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

WOW......hate you guys. 

Those pictures are awesome. I like the lighting in those wen the lights are on. But prefer a very dim light on the floor rail so people can get out if need be. And the ceiling light for me would be distracting during a movie. That being said if the light was very dim I could see how it would be nice. Just my opinion.

Either way if you are shooting for a design like the pictures that should be an amazing result.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I am thinking that the rope lighting and black lights will be nice for when listening to music only or maybe even watching music videos. Our HT is not near as big as the one with the fabric walls nor do I think it will turn out as nice, but I don't have the money to make one quite like that either. I will try and DIY it to make it as nice as I can afford.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Question:
When you are doing OSB on the first layer of a clip/hat track rail... Do you need to have the screws on the drywall layer (2nd layer) go into the Hat track rails too, or can they just go directly into the OSB? I am thinking that they can go directly into the OSB as you would want the screws to be closer than every 16-24".


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have been told that all the screws need to hit the hat channel when using OSB due to there being a precise tightening amount with OSB where as drywall will crush when it is right rather than pop the screw out of the channel. Since I don't want to have to worry about the ceiling coming down... I am now looking at doing 2 layers of drywall with green glue between them. 

Question: Now i think I am just going to do the 2 layers of drywall with green glue for the ceiling. If I do it this way do both layers of drywall need the screws through the hat channel, or do I just need to be concerned with the first layer hitting the channel? I am anticipating the sheetrock screws being about 12-16" apart on the second layer.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I am ordering my door seals, and I am not sure which to get.

Should I get this one... http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Door-Seal-Self-Adhesive.html

or this one... http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Door-Seal-Self-Adhesive-Batwing-style.html

I am also trying to decide between these 2 auto door seals...
http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/heavy-duty-automatic-door-bottom-soundproof.html

or this one...
http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Heavy-Duty-High-Sound-Automatic-Door-Bottom.html


Should I get a threshold too? http://www.tmsoundproofing.com/Utility-Door-Threshold-1-4-Height.html
We have 2 solid core doors separated by 6' and the hallway is more of a ramp like you see in the theaters... We will have carpet once you cross the first threshold. Outside of the first door is flagstone.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Anyone? I need to confirm my order in the morning.


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Sorry if I am too late - I like option #2 in both cases. The bag wing has more material to close any seams, and the second seal kit has the foam insert that compresses - to me that will seal better.

I would skip the thresholds....


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ALMFamily said:


> Sorry if I am too late - I like option #2 in both cases. The bag wing has more material to close any seams, and the second seal kit has the foam insert that compresses - to me that will seal better.
> 
> I would skip the thresholds....


Thanks, I will order them both today.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Just ordered some Insteon dimmer outlets for our rope lighting, and a ELK M1 Gold wireless setup with ethernet for connecting our Insteon up with an alarm. This will give us three ways to control the Insteon... We can control it via the ELK keypad, Insteon switches or CQC HA software. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have a 26 port Cisco Gigabit Switch that we use for our home and we were trying to figure out how to deal with so many wires coming through the double wall. I think what we are going to do is this..
Our bathroom wall is right behind where all the wires were entering our garage. So the plan is to put the 26 port switch in the bathroom, along with our wireless router, and then buy another Cisco Gigabit switch and put it in the audio rack. By doing this we will only have to deal with one wire going through the wall, and we can have all of the equipment in the HT on it's own switch.

The only question is... By having some 10/100 devices on the switch will it slow down the others on that switch? Should I get a 10/100 switch and a gigabit switch, and run 10/100 devices on their own switch thereby allowing the gigabit devices to run full speed?


----------



## ALMFamily

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I have a 26 port Cisco Gigabit Switch that we use for our home and we were trying to figure out how to deal with so many wires coming through the double wall. I think what we are going to do is this..
> Our bathroom wall is right behind where all the wires were entering our garage. So the plan is to put the 26 port switch in the bathroom, along with our wireless router, and then buy another Cisco Gigabit switch and put it in the audio rack. By doing this we will only have to deal with one wire going through the wall, and we can have all of the equipment in the HT on it's own switch.
> 
> The only question is... By having some 10/100 devices on the switch will it slow down the others on that switch? Should I get a 10/100 switch and a gigabit switch, and run 10/100 devices on their own switch thereby allowing the gigabit devices to run full speed?


Hmmmm... - sorry, definitely out of my area of expertise. Maybe try posting that question in the computer sub forum - I have seen a couple of really knowledgable people posting over there.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I have been checking, and so far it seems to be that it won't matter... I was asking because years ago i was told it would slow down the whole network to whatever the slowest device was.


Today was a shopping day... I picked up the rest of the HVAC duct connectors, and another bag of R30 for the ceiling (should be the last bag).

Saturday, I am picking up another pair of Klipsch Heresy HIPs! This could be the last pair I need to complete my setup. :T


Question... On a room that is 19' wide and the left and right speakers are within 2' of the side walls is it advisable to run width channels?


Question: I have a pair of Klipsch KPT 3002 speakers which are about the same height as the La Scalas... I am debating on this if I forgo width channels, and go 9.2:

1. Hang the 3002 speakers on their sides (the backs are triangular) for height channels
2. HIPs for side surrounds, and rear surrounds

or

1. Hips for height channels, and side channels
2. 3002 for rear surrounds


What do you think is best?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Yesterday we got 3/4 of the first layer of drywall completed on the ceiling... Next weekend I have an additional worker coming to help, and we hope to have the 2nd layer of drywall green glued in place. Then it will be time to start building the soffits. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Picking up the rest of the drywall saturday. I will also have a new projector for the HT next week... Picked up a Panasonic AE8000 with less than 100 hours on it with an extended warranty that is transferrable.  I should be ordering the screen in the next couple of weeks.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We have our dryer ducting that will be running along the floor in a soffit... Is it sufficient to stuff the soffit with insulation, and double drywall it or should we use 4" insulated HVAC flex ducting?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I would stuff the soffit with insulation, and double drywall around it. Other then that is sounds like you are moving along. 

You are moving along with this project, I can't wait to get started back up on mine.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> I have been checking, and so far it seems to be that it won't matter... I was asking because years ago i was told it would slow down the whole network to whatever the slowest device was.
> 
> 
> Today was a shopping day... I picked up the rest of the HVAC duct connectors, and another bag of R30 for the ceiling (should be the last bag).
> 
> Saturday, I am picking up another pair of Klipsch Heresy HIPs! This could be the last pair I need to complete my setup. :T
> 
> 
> Question... On a room that is 19' wide and the left and right speakers are within 2' of the side walls is it advisable to run width channels?
> 
> 
> Question: I have a pair of Klipsch KPT 3002 speakers which are about the same height as the La Scalas... I am debating on this if I forgo width channels, and go 9.2:
> 
> 1. Hang the 3002 speakers on their sides (the backs are triangular) for height channels
> 2. HIPs for side surrounds, and rear surrounds
> 
> or
> 
> 1. Hips for height channels, and side channels
> 2. 3002 for rear surrounds
> 
> 
> What do you think is best?


I would do 3002 for side surrounds, and hips for height, and rears.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I would do 3002 for side surrounds, and hips for height, and rears.


Sounds good. I will try them that way. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

This weekend we will be finishing up on the drywall (in front of the screen), and taping the seams... We are also going to start on the soffits. I am thinking we should mount the HIPS (temp mount), and build the soffits out from there. I am thinking that the speaker mounts should be 2x4s, and then we can make the rest of the soffits 1x3s to keep the weight down.

Does this sound good?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

If your saying frame off where your going to mount the hips, then finish the rest off with 1x3s. Then yes as long as the the frame for the hips are mounted good.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> If your saying frame off where your going to mount the hips, then finish the rest off with 1x3s. Then yes as long as the the frame for the hips are mounted good.


Yes... What I am thinking is to make the supports for the HIPs out of 2x4s and attached the frames to the walls and ceiling (hat channel through the drywall). We will make the speaker mounts as strong as possible.  Once that is done then make the soffit out of a lighter 1x3 and work my way around the room. The only thing that will be in the soffits will be... Lighting, cables, and insulation. The idea is to have part of the soffit be double drywalled, and then have an area that extends out further that would be covered with cloth to match the cloth covered walls.

I am also assuming they should be aimed toward the listening position, correct?


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Sounds like that would work


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Just ordered my screen material from SeymourAV... I purchased the XD AT material with all the grommets installed. They are currently out of stock but should have it by the end of the month. The frame will be 186.5'' x 81.5'' out of aluminum rectangular tubing with velvet trim. I am trying to see what will work the best for wrapping the frame right now, and if I can find some angle pieces to put inside the mitered corners of the frame. The frame will also have 2 support pieces on the rear of the frame. The screen material will be shadow boxed behind the frame. This will give me a 153" 16x9 screen with somewhere between 17&21fl. I am not sure as the screen is listed as 102/100 gain. Most likely we will only watch a 153" 2.4 screen size for the 2.4 movies, but when I can afford a bigger projector... We will be able to go up to a 195".


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Nice, thats a good size screen.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Nice, thats a good size screen.


I am tired of buying screens.... My first was a 10 4x3 Draper, my 2nd was a DIY 106" Draper, my current is a 134" Jamestown, and now I will be doing a DIY as my final screen as the wall is only 19' wide and my rack will take up 2' of one side (we are going to try and keep it symmetrical on the screen wall).


----------



## dougc

That will be an awesome screen. Have you considered using metal channel for the long pieces of the soffit? They make it very straight


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



dougc said:


> That will be an awesome screen. Have you considered using metal channel for the long pieces of the soffit? They make it very straight


 I will look into that, and I think it will also make the soffit lighter. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today i have been shopping for materials to make the screen frame, and this is what i have found out...

To have the basic frame made out of 1x3" aluminum welded... It is about $700
To make the basic frame out of 1x3" Extruded T channel Aluminum... It is about $400 Here is the stuff I am looking at... http://www.automation4less.com/store/proddetail.asp?prod=650001 I saw where someone else did one a few years back on a smaller frame and used 1.5x1.5" and said that if you need more strength you could go 1x2" (savings of about $100 in materials)... Would I really need a 1x3 or should I go with the smaller size?


Pluses of the Extruded aluminum...

1:No need to drill and tap 80 holes for the pegs to hold the o-rings that connect the screen grommets to the frame

2: I can easily use "L" brackets to stand off the screen from a 2x4 frame behind the screen frame... Plus it means I don't have to use as large of a piece of aluminum as it is already supported to prevent sagging.

3: Cost of the aluminum is is 1/2 of the basic welded frame.

4: easy to attach a would frame to as it can be done with t-nuts.

5: Easy to locate the t-nuts in relation to the grommets.

Negatives of extruded aluminum...

1: buying 80 t-nuts, and corner connectors.


Pluses of welded frame:

1: Rock solid construction

2: Drill the holes for the frame anywhere rather than have to line up the screws with the "t" slots.

Negatives of welded frame:

1: Awkward to transport to our home.

2: Have to accurately drill, and tap 80 holes for dowels (or something for the o-rings to attach to).

So it looks like it is the most economical to go the Extruded Aluminum route for ease of construction, time, and price. I am thinking of using standoffs every 3-5 feet... I am thinking this will keep the frame true, and prevent the scree frame from sagging.

Does anyone see any possible problems with this scenario?


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Well, I bit the bullet, and purchased the extruded aluminum for the screen frame. I picked up 6 8' 1x2s. I really wanted to get the top and bottom in a single piece but no one around stocks it that long and the shipping would have been almost $200. I was able to pick up all the t-nuts too. I am now waiting on the braces, and 3 hinges. We will be able to tilt the screen up whenever we need to get behind the screen. Today i also received 2 more of the Topping 25 wpc amps too. If they work out for the bass drivers too... I will buy 3 more pair for the heights, sides surrounds , and the rear surrounds. We also have almost all of the main room walls and ceiling drywalled (waiting for the last bit to be done before taping the seams. I also ordered 100' ,and 16' of dimmable 120v blue LED lighting strips for the stairs, and soffits. We also have 1/2 of the LED spots installed in the soffits already. What I found out was I ordered too many LED spots! I will use a little over half (be nice to have spares plus I am sure we will find other locations for the rest (our closet comes to mind for one  ). Our new HVAC will be delivered this Friday too... We will be installing that in a couple of weeks.

I also got lucky on eBay , and won the last JBL 2360a horn that I needed, and the last EV DH1a 6ohm driver I needed.

I am hoping that by the end of the month we will have the ceiling textured, and the whole room painted flat black. The flat black is going to be a temporary thing until I can get all the acoustic panels made up (providing I have the cash). I am hoping I have enough to get the carpet the end of the month. I figure it will cost at least $1k to carpet the 500 sqft room.

Here is a pic of the seating area so far...


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Looking good Ron, I like the leds in the soffit.


----------



## Owen Bartley

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Me too, and you're better off having too much light (provided you can dim them) than not having enough when you need it. Also... those are some serious horns! Looks like this is going to be a good one.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Well, I bit the bullet, and purchased the extruded aluminum for the screen frame. I picked up 6 8' 1x2s. I really wanted to get the top and bottom in a single piece but no one around stocks it that long and the shipping would have been almost $200. I was able to pick up all the t-nuts too. I am now waiting on the braces, and 3 hinges. We will be able to tilt the screen up whenever we need to get behind the screen. Today i also received 2 more of the Topping 25 wpc amps too. If they work out for the bass drivers too... I will buy 3 more pair for the heights, sides surrounds , and the rear surrounds. We also have almost all of the main room walls and ceiling drywalled (waiting for the last bit to be done before taping the seams. I also ordered 100' ,and 16' of dimmable 120v blue LED lighting strips for the stairs, and soffits. We also have 1/2 of the LED spots installed in the soffits already. What I found out was I ordered too many LED spots! I will use a little over half (be nice to have spares plus I am sure we will find other locations for the rest (our closet comes to mind for one  ). Our new HVAC will be delivered this Friday too... We will be installing that in a couple of weeks.
> 
> I also got lucky on eBay , and won the last JBL 2360a horn that I needed, and the last EV DH1a 6ohm driver I needed.
> 
> I am hoping that by the end of the month we will have the ceiling textured, and the whole room painted flat black. The flat black is going to be a temporary thing until I can get all the acoustic panels made up (providing I have the cash). I am hoping I have enough to get the carpet the end of the month. I figure it will cost at least $1k to carpet the 500 sqft room.
> 
> Here is a pic of the seating area so far...





duder1982 said:


> Looking good Ron, I like the leds in the soffit.


Thanks, I tested dimming the LEDs yesterday, and they dimmed nicely. I will have to go and program the Insteon switch to see how low they can go without flickering... When I tested I was not able to get them to flicker. :T


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



Owen Bartley said:


> . Also... those are some serious horns! Looks like this is going to be a good one.


Thats what happens when you hang out at the Klipsch forum.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Thats what happens when you hang out at the Klipsch forum.


 The horns are bigger than my La Scala bass bins. :T
I don't think there will be any problem with hitting reference levels with 112db with 1 watt capable horns!


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today we plugged in the blue LED rope lights and tried dimming them... We dimmed them all the way down to 5% with the Insteon Outlet dimmer and they dimmed flawlessly! No flickers at all. Looks like I will need to order some more for the rest of the room. These are the ones I got... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007TMN4WI/ref=oh_details_o02_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Well it looks like I spoke too soon... WHen I go to turn them off they are still lit. Anyone have any ideas on how I can solve this with a 120v LED rope light? I know that the switch is turning off but it is getting enough electricity to keep them on. We have the same problem in my car with the interior LEDs. The only ones that do not stay on dimly when shut off are the ones that have a switch in line (door switch).


----------



## Owen Bartley

I'm no electrician, but that sounds strange. Shouldn't the "off" position on the switch kill all flow through it? Seems like it might be dangerous to have "always on" fixtures. Not to mention a waste of electricity.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



Owen Bartley said:


> I'm no electrician, but that sounds strange. Shouldn't the "off" position on the switch kill all flow through it? Seems like it might be dangerous to have "always on" fixtures. Not to mention a waste of electricity.


Apparently when you have a switch that has an indicator on it there is always electricity going through it, and since we have LEDs they can use that little bit of electricity to light up. I have found a little plug that is supposed to make the LEDs go completely off when the witch is turned off. I will post up how it works out. :T


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Well I tried a 20w puck light wired in before the LED, and it didn't solve the problem of being able to turn off the light... I hope I don't need to buy relays to do this as we would need 4 of them since I have 4 circuits.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

We picked our carpet last night at Lowes, and today they measured out the HT room. We went with Eggplant 70 ounce carpet with their premium pad. Hopefully we will have the carpet delivered next Friday so we can close off the garage door, and complete the last wall of the HT.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Today I got in the rest of the LED rope lights, the rest of the hardware for the frame including 2 hinges, andwe got about 1/2 of the front stage completed. Since we moved the screen forward 2'... I am thinking I can make the area behind into a huge bass trap as it is 19' wide, and 4' deep with a ceiling height of about 7'.

What would be the best way (inexpensive too if possible) to do that? Should I just buy a lot of fiberglass insulation and stack it up? I want this to be a DIY project as cash is almost all gone for the HT room. We will also have the soffit 1' x 2' all around the room stuffed with acoustic absorbers and covered with fabric.

My friend also solved the LED dimmer rope lighting problem of it not turning off... The solution was to turn the light up to full brightness and then turn it off. :T I guess it won't be too bad as when a movie is over you would most likely turn all the lights up to full brightness anyway for exiting the HT, and then turn them off when you exit. Now I will just have to figure out how to do a macro in CQC to turn the lights on and then off right away. :T


----------



## dougc

You could also hang strips from the ceiling by sandwiching the fiberglass between strips of 1x4


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Yesterday we worked on the stage and today we got the frame put together.

Here is the screen frame temporarily hanging about 2' farther away then it will be mounted... Viewed from the front row. 

Here is from the 2nd row...


----------



## phillihp23

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

Wow that's small :rubeyes::rofl:


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



phillihp23 said:


> Wow that's small :rubeyes::rofl:


Yup... I have no intention of ever having to buy a new screen because I want a bigger one. :T We sat in the MLP and was testing how it looks, and it looks like it will be a perfect size... Not too big, and not too large IMO.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*

I like it, go big or go home, that should be your motto with this room. Big horns big screens, now you just need big amps, and big seats.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I like it, go big or go home, that should be your motto with this room. Big horns big screens, now you just need big amps, and big seats.


:T:T

Not sure anyone would be able to handle it with big amps... 112db with 1 watt, which gives us about 125db at the MLP with the horns. :T The subs should be around the same or more with the Yamaha amp. Just don't have a way to get the bass to the same level of efficiency.

I do think I will have a chance at the Highest SPL with the least power in a HT room. :R


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



dougc said:


> You could also hang strips from the ceiling by sandwiching the fiberglass between strips of 1x4


I like the idea.... We also have some rubber sheets that I might be able to hang for some damping too.


----------



## duder1982

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> :T:T
> 
> Not sure anyone would be able to handle it with big amps... 112db with 1 watt, which gives us about 125db at the MLP with the horns. :T The subs should be around the same or more with the Yamaha amp. Just don't have a way to get the bass to the same level of efficiency.
> 
> I do think I will have a chance at the Highest SPL with the least power in a HT room. :R


Build you some FirstWatt F5t, they will be physically big, but about 25-50 watts per a channel. Clean watts, clean sound. All so I don't know if you seen my threads on the Crown D45, but that is a great bang for the buck power amp(100-150 on flea bay). They sound wonderful, and are rack mountable.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> Build you some FirstWatt F5t, they will be physically big, but about 25-50 watts per a channel. Clean watts, clean sound. All so I don't know if you seen my threads on the Crown D45, but that is a great bang for the buck power amp(100-150 on flea bay). They sound wonderful, and are rack mountable.


Could be a possibility for the future...


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



duder1982 said:


> I like it, go big or go home, that should be your motto with this room. Big horns big screens, now you just need big amps, and big seats.


HT Thread name changed... :T


----------



## NBPk402

I solved the LED rope light won't turn off problem!! What I did was get one of these, and plug it into a cheater plug, and then plug the cheater plug into my dimmer outlet... I tried it down to 1% and then turned it off and it works flawlessly! :T


----------



## NBPk402

Today we got the screen in position, and got the first coat of paint on 3 walls and the ceiling. The La Scala bass bins will be raised to the same height as the center channel.


MLP in the 2nd row.


----------



## J&D

That's progressing nicely. Going to be one fantastic space.


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday I got the LED rope lighting up (I still need to get the end caps so I can trim it). Once I get the "T", 90 degree, and end caps I will work on the LEDs around the front screen. When the carpet is installed I will finish the last 3 zones of LED rope lights.
The LEDs look much better in person (these are taken with my Samsung Galaxy Note).

100%


100%


50%


5%


----------



## moparz10

turning out very nicely !:T


----------



## NBPk402

Today we got the soffits completely painted flat black, outlets installed for the stair rope lights, stage is completely framed and has 2 layers of OSB on the top of the stage. Hopefully the carpet will be installed early this week. Once the carpet is installed we can finish the wall behind the screen (and ceiling). Once that is done we can run the HVAC ducts for the MB, the return duct, mount the projector install the screen, install the speakers, load te rk with equipment and move in the seating. Getting close now...


----------



## NBPk402

I def did not need a hot weather week now.... I just got all the insulation we have stuffed in the stage (I need one more bag to finish it off). Carpet will be installed in the morning, so today will be getting the room ready for the carpet guys. Room is completely painted black except for behind the screen, and the entrance hallway. Hopefully we will be moving equipment in after this coming weekend and start tuning the room.


----------



## chashint

Your build is looking good.
Since I am replacing a failed hot water heater today, hot water heaters are fresh on my mind.
If yours is approaching end of life (around 9-10 years old) it might be worth thinking about replacing it now and installing the new one in a pan with a drain going to the outside.
I know you already have most of your construction completed, but it would be awful to get everything flooded when the hot water heater dies.


----------



## NBPk402

chashint said:


> Your build is looking good.
> Since I am replacing a failed hot water heater today, hot water heaters are fresh on my mind.
> If yours is approaching end of life (around 9-10 years old) it might be worth thinking about replacing it now and installing the new one in a pan with a drain going to the outside.
> I know you already have most of your construction completed, but it would be awful to get everything flooded when the hot water heater dies.


Good advice... Ours is about 5 years old... It has a pan, and a drain already. :T


----------



## willis7469

chashint said:


> Your build is looking good. Since I am replacing a failed hot water heater today, hot water heaters are fresh on my mind. If yours is approaching end of life (around 9-10 years old) it might be worth thinking about replacing it now and installing the new one in a pan with a drain going to the outside. I know you already have most of your construction completed, but it would be awful to get everything flooded when the hot water heater dies.


if your water is hot, why do you need a heater? :Neener: lol


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> if your water is hot, why do you need a heater? :Neener: lol


:rofl::T


----------



## NBPk402

Today we got the garage door wall almost done... We need 2 more sheets of drywall to complete the walls. We decided since we had extra hat channel and clips that we would go the extra mile and use them on that wall... It was either that or 4 layers of OSB, GG, and drywall. So we did the clips, OSB, GG, and dw. We also got the front height speakers mounted and aimed. 

Saturday we hope to get the wall finished, ceiling finished (only 4' x 19' behind the header), carpet the stage, 1/4 pie bass bins built for the LCR, and maybe mount the screen to the frame. Sunday we hope to have at least one of the DDs completed and installed, all the equipment in the room, projector hung, and recliners in place, with the room ready for hooking up everything..


----------



## NBPk402

Today we got the wall behind the screen completed, one of the double doors installed with an extra layer of MDF, Installed the auto seal, re installed the door. and we started on 3 of the 1/4 Pie Bass bins (which are about 1/3 done). Sunday we will finish all 3 1/4 Pie Bass Bins, paint them, finish the ceiling behind the screen, clean the room, and start installing audio, and video equipment.


----------



## NBPk402

Today we got the 3 1/4 pie speakers built and painted... We had a few setbacks today but we still got some progress. Monday we should have the ceiling behind the screen dry walled, and have at least 2 of the speakers hooked up and running. We are also going to try and get the projector and screen installed.


----------



## NBPk402

Over the last few days I have been getting the system up in the new location... I have all the speakers except for the center channel up and running (center channel just needs the drivers installed). The projector is sitting temporarily on a makeshift shelf, and the side surrounds, and rear surrounds are just sitting on the floor waiting to be installed properly (but they are calibrated in their current locations. We have watched a few movies over the last couple of days and all of our guests love the setup. I am going to have to mask the sides as the projector doesn't have enough throw to go the full width (we are around 150" 16x9). Here is my Win 7 desktop shot on the screen...


----------



## willis7469

Wow, I thought my 32" monitor was big! Lol

Your room is gonna be real nice Ellis.


----------



## NBPk402

I got the center channel up and working today, and hung the rear speakers. Here is a pic of the screen folded up to show part of the front channel speakers... [URL=http://s22.photobucket.com/user/rsxer63/media/9068a21c-fea5-48b0-a028-af10797b1a22_zps0a9889a6.jpg.html][/URL]

Here is an enhanced pic of the seating with the makeshift projector mount (the room is so dark that my cellphone can't capture everything properly)... [URL=http://s22.photobucket.com/user/rsxer63/media/80292cc5-70e9-4791-8b57-c91451351439_zps3b76e14a.jpg.html][/URL]


----------



## B- one

Looking good! I'm stuck in the living room slider behind the display. I'll be happy to get blackout curtains let alone your great level of darkness:bigsmile:.


----------



## NBPk402

B- one said:


> Looking good! I'm stuck in the living room slider behind the display. I'll be happy to get blackout curtains let alone your great level of darkness:bigsmile:.


The AE8000 projector has blown me away with it's black levels, and memory functions. It is awesome to load up a movie and have it automatically zoom, and focus the picture for me. I am also very surprised that we haven't even painted the wall behind the screen, And you can't even tell.:T


----------



## chrapladm

Man this things is coming along nicely. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Last night I listened to music till a bit after midnight... Even in an untreated room it sounded great! I was getting a bit worried since the whole front wall was totally unknown territory for me as I had heard none of the equipment before and was just going by what several people had said sounded good. My leap of faith of their opinions turned out to be a good one. 

My father in-law is here on vacation, and he used to be an Audiophile (had his own shop in Korea)... He said the other night that was the best sound he has ever heard (I hope he was being honest, and not just trying to make me feel good). I know that I still need to do some fine tuning, and get the REW software up and running to see what we have, plus I need to get the Klipsch crossovers out, and get the MiniDSPs in their place. IMO it is the best sound I have heard in a HT... I have heard better in dedicated 2 channel setups in tuned rooms. I am hoping I can get it dialed in for 2 channel to sound its best too.


----------



## NBPk402

I got the black carpet installed on the top of the stage yesterday along with one section of black velvet in the soffits.

Now on to today... What a day today was... It started out with getting the audio rack made, and all the equipment up and running... Pretty good until I checked the NAS. The NAS could not be seen or see any other device on the network.  I spent a good 5+ hours trying different cables, configs, re-installing the UnRaid software etc... All to no avail. Then my friend Travis comes over and we spent another hour or so with no progress. After he left I was looking for a new motherboard thinking I had a failed lan port on the mb. Well guess what... There were 2 lan ports and one had failed, but the other one worked. I booted in to the new OS and got into the NAS through the web... But it was only seeing 3 of the 4 drives and it didn't know what they were. I was then thinking I might have had a HDD failure after all the on/off cycles of the day. I decided to reload the original OS (good thing I made a copy  ). I rebooted and went in through the web and it saw all the HDDs.  Still not out of the woods yet as I have to see if the Parity drive finds any errors. I can't believe that I have had this SuperMicro MB for 1 month over 1 year and that by chance I try the wrong lan port and it was dead. I am thinking it has been dead from day one... Or maybe I am using theo ther one now? Not sure, but I am glad it is up and running without having to buy another MB, CPU, and maybe a HDD.


----------



## Peter Loeser

I attempted to build a PC-based NAS a couple years back for my HT and it never did work the way I wanted. I'm not sure there is anything more frustrating than an unsolvable computer problem. Glad you were able to get things going with the 2nd network port!


----------



## NBPk402

Well the NAS is working again! Parity checked out ok. Next on the agenda this weekend is to get some of the Roxul R80 panels made up for room tuning, and get the new furnace installed. I am hoping that we can get the new HVAC to the point where we just have to pour the pad, and hookup the AC condenser on Sunday. The fumes from the carpet are still annoying... We have a fan blowing out for 12+ hours each day to try and get them down to zero. I hope to have some more pics this weekend... Even though it is getting harder to take the pics with the room being all black. :T


----------



## bpape

You'll be done before you know it and ready to enjoy it. Hang in there.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> You'll be done before you know it and ready to enjoy it. Hang in there.


:T Just ordered some sample GOM pieces to see what will look good in our HT room. I am thinking of going with this scenario:

1: 2'x4' (R80) panels spaced evenly between our ceiling bass trap soffits (1'x2' stuffed with R19 Denim) (5 or 6 per row or 3 per row when turned 90 degrees) coming out about 10' on the ceiling.

2: 2'x4' panels on the side walls (about a foot from the bottom of the soffits (R80)) about 5 panels per wall (spaced evenly again)

On the back stage area we have the rear surrounds about a foot from the side walls... Should I make the side walls (about 6' long) all absorption, and use diffusion between the speakers?

We haven't treated the rear wall yet behind the screen (or even painted it... Will it improve the quality of the picture by painting it? The stage is stuffed with insulation now, and I want to drill holes in the front curved area to make it a bass trap (about 4' deep at its deepest area)... How big of holes do I need? Can I cover it with carpet and have it still be a bass trap?

The area behind the AT screen is about 6'... What should I do for treating it? Should I just hang LinAcoustics right behind the face of the speakers and leave a air chamber of 5' behind it?


----------



## NBPk402

Well it looks like my progress will be slowing down for a while as my car was totaled in a 6 car collision yesterday on the way home from HD. I was not at fault so hopefully one of the other cars involved in the collision will pay for my car (I only have liability coverage).







[/URL][/IMG] My Volvo is toast.


----------



## dougc

ellisr63 said:


> Well it looks like my progress will be slowing down for a while as my car was totaled in a 6 car collision yesterday on the way home from HD. I was not at fault so hopefully one of the other cars involved in the collision will pay for my car (I only have liability coverage).[/URL][/IMG] My Volvo is toast.


Oh man, that's awful. Did you make it out unscathed?


----------



## NBPk402

dougc said:


> Oh man, that's awful. Did you make it out unscathed?


I have some back, and neck pain... Other than that I am fine. I am glad that it appeared no one else was seriously injured. I think the red car that hit me might have had her foot on the gas when she was hit... I am thinking that because of how far she wedged herself into the other cars, and how she hit 4 other cars after she was hit.


----------



## B- one

ellisr63 said:


> I have some back, and neck pain... Other than that I am fine. I am glad that it appeared no one else was seriously injured. I think the red car that hit me might have had her foot on the gas when she was hit... I am thinking that because of how far she wedged herself into the other cars, and how she hit 4 other cars after she was hit.


Sorry to hear about the wreck, hopefully only short term pain good luck with the insurance issues.


----------



## phillihp23

Glad to hear your o.k.


----------



## bpape

Never a good thing but glad to hear you're mostly OK. Keep an eye on that back and neck - don't let it get too bad and document everything.


----------



## willis7469

Glad your ok!(mostly). Definitely keep track of everything. Even the seemingly smallest back/neck injury can stem off into much larger problems. Now, if your theatre was finished, you just might need to add a bunch of extra recovery time! I think I read that theatre seats can actually be quite therapeutic! :wink:
Good luck.


----------



## NBPk402

Thanks, my wife is taking me to get my back adjusted today... We are keeping all the receipts.


----------



## NBPk402

I have been working on building my acoustic panels this week. I keep going to Lowes and cleaning them out of the 1/2" x 3 1/2" poplar for the frame assemblies. So far I have 5 made up (not covered yet though), and enough wood to build another 5 or 6. I hope to have the ones I have built on the walls by this weekend. Hopefully my fabric samples will arrive today so I can order the material for covering them. I am anticipating having 21 acoustic panels in the room (2x4), for the ceiling, and walls. For the bass trap soffits I am using R19 Denim (I think I need about 6 more packs). The Roxul R80 rockwool panels are turning out very easy to build.


----------



## Owen Bartley

You know the rule... Progress pics or it didn't happen! .  

How are you feeling now? Hopefully some of the stiffness has gone and you're not suffering any long term issues.


----------



## bpape

Don't go overboard with too many thinner panels and not enough thicker ones and skew the decay time curve.


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> You know the rule... Progress pics or it didn't happen! .
> 
> How are you feeling now? Hopefully some of the stiffness has gone and you're not suffering any long term issues.




Still a little sore but my Chiropractor says I am getting better. 
Here are a couple of pics of what I have made today....







[/URL][/IMG]








[/URL][/IMG]

The frames are 1/2" x 3 1/2" with a 1"x 1 1/2" inserted on the sides to space the Roxul from the wall.

I keep running out of the 1/2" boards as no one has much in stock.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Don't go overboard with too many thinner panels and not enough thicker ones and skew the decay time curve.


Should I just use the 2" for the ceiling and behind the AT screen? I could then make up some 4" thick ones for the side walls, and some 8" for the rear wall. All the panels are the Roxul R80 Rockboard... not fiberglass insulation (just to be sure we are talking the same materials). :T

I ordered 14 yards of the black commando cloth we talked about for behind the screen wall.


----------



## NBPk402

Today I decided to do a little testing... Mind you the door can't be closed all the way, the hallway still needs another layer of Drywall, and outer door has yet to be sealed at all. I put on some music and tested the SPL at the garage door (outside of the theater).... 45db, my wife starts up her new Hyundai Genesis, and it goes to 65db... I walk around to the back of the house and enter the HT... reading is 92db! This from my cell phone app which I don't think is correct because when we watch movies it will never go above 92db... Even at reference levels and this was very loud today! I would be surprised if we were not over 100db. I am very satisfied with the results so far.


----------



## bpape

2" behind the false wall is fine for all the surfaces.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> 2" behind the false wall is fine for all the surfaces.


My Danley sub is firing up through the platform about 8" from the rear wall... Would it be better to do 2" on the rear wall, and 8" on the wall behind the AT screen?


----------



## bpape

No. Just 2" on the front is fine. more worried about thickness on the rear wall.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> No. Just 2" on the front is fine. more worried about thickness on the rear wall.


Where do I find the pins(?) to attach the Roxul Rockboard to the wall behind the screen?


----------



## bpape

T pins for curtains can work, or you can just build more firring and friction fit it.


----------



## NBPk402

I have 7 of the 9 panels built as of today... I am waiting on the GOM to be delivered, so I just put the muslim on the back and turned them around for now. Once I have the 9 completed I will make the rest out of 4" Roxul R80. I will then double up on them for the rear wall to make it 8" thick. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Tonight a couple of friends came over to see the HT progress.... I played some music videos, and the beginning of The Bourne Identity to see how it sounded. We played it a reference levels, and it sounded great (even though the room is not tuned yet, as it only has 7 panels resting on the walls). My friend brought the Chemical Brothers video, and we proceeded to play it at reference levels.... I wanted to see how loud it was outside since it was around 11pm, so we went around the house and I pulled up my sound meter app... 42db at reference level with heavy bass! I have to admit I never expected it to be that quiet. I asked my friends what they thought of the sound, and they said it was distortion free all the way down to the lowest notes. One of my friends said he never expected it to sound so good being in a Home Theater, and was shocked when he saw how quiet it was outside. I can't wait until we get the rest of the tuning completed and the 2nd door sealed. After that there will be one more step... Get the minidsps hooked up and tune the speakers properly. One thing we found out tonight was if you want the best bass... You sit in the 2nd row seats, and if you want the most open sound you sit in the first row. I know this is because I did a quick setup with the 4520, and just ran it in one position instead of 8.

I would definitely recommend to anyone to go with double wall, OSB/GG/DW if you want to get the room quieter.


----------



## NBPk402

Got the appraisal on the Volvo yesterday... The appraiser left to finish it off when he hit $15k! Too bad the car wasn't worth a third of that.


----------



## NBPk402

I completed 4 of my panels today... 4" of Roxul R80 with GOM wrapped around the front and Muslim for the rear.

I stapled the Muslim, and also the GOM to the 1/2" x 3 1/2" Poplar frames that I made. 

Question... Is it enough to staple the material or do I need to use Duct tape or something else too? The reason I ask is I can see the material unraveling where it was cut, and I see a lot of strain on the material around the staples.


----------



## B- one

If you have to use duct tape I recommend gorilla glue brand. I used it to tape up a damaged box truck in February and it's still holding strong.


----------



## NBPk402

Thanks, the other tape I had heard that was good was Gaffers tape... Not sure if it is better or worse for this situation.:T


----------



## bpape

Or just double over the edges before you staple it to the frame.


----------



## willis7469

+1 for gorilla tape. (If you go that route) I'm building a fallout shelter with it.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Or just double over the edges before you staple it to the frame.


Thanks Bryan,
I don't think I have enough material to double it over... I just had enough to make it to the 1" part on the fold over the frame. Some of the areas were about 1/2".
I got 3 panels completed today... Hopefully I can get 4-5 done tomorrow. Then I will try and get someone to help me with a mirror to see where to install them. Do I do the measurements for each seating position or just the MLP?


----------



## NBPk402

I'll look at the Gorilla tape then if i need to tape it. Do most people tape it if they don't fold it over before stapling?


----------



## NBPk402

I am planning on covering all of the ceiling, and walls with fabric... Something like this  , except my acoustic panels would be the only ones sticking out the most.

I was thinking of attaching the fabric to 1/2" x 1" wood and stapling it to it. I would do this for the whole wall, and then attach the acoustic panels to the fabric walls. I was thinking I could do this easily as long as I know where my wood is for attaching the acoustic panels to.

If I do this can I put something behind the whole fabric wall so the material will be more stable, ie if some one pushes on the panel I don't want the fabric to push inward with nothing behind it. What is the way they are normally done? Should I use pegboard, or solid foam insulation panels (with the aluminum foil facing outward)?

Any ideas or suggestions?


----------



## bpape

I'd just use plywood behind the fabric.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> I'd just use plywood behind the fabric.


If I use solid plywood won't that create a triple effect? Maybe I should just use 1/2" plywood and wrap the material around it?


----------



## bpape

As long as there isn't a gap between the drywall and the plywood it's not at all a problem. The problem exists when you have more than one sealed air gap which you won't have.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> As long as there isn't a gap between the drywall and the plywood it's not at all a problem. The problem exists when you have more than one sealed air gap which you won't have.


How do I determine where to place the sound panels on the wall in regards to height? The panels are 2' x 4'... Would 2' off the floor, and leaving a gap under the soffit be ok? Our soffit is 1' from the ceiling but it stops about 6' from the screen... Which means the panels then have to go up 1' higher. I am thinking cosmetically it would be better to keep the distance from the floor the same (until it meets up with the 2nd row seating) the same, but I don't want to mess up the sound either.


----------



## bpape

As long as you're well covering the reflection points you'll be fine. I usually do them 2' or so off the floor assuming 4' tall panels.


----------



## NBPk402

I just measured for the ceiling, and i have a max of 6 1/2" for the ceiling panels including the drop... If I go 4" that will allow me a max of 2 1/2" for mounting... Is that enough of a gap?


----------



## bpape

If that's all there is then it's all you can do. Still the 2.5" will help extend how low they will function well.


----------



## NBPk402

I have installed 6 4" 2x4 panels (3 per side) on the side walls so far (first reflection points)... I installed them right next to each other (touching), and the room already sounds much better. When i built these I used up another bag of Roxul, and I noticed my bass is much fuller now where as before it seemed lacking in the bottom end and was much tighter. I am assuming that when I finally get the bass traps built the bass will lean out again... Am I correct?

I hope to get the ceiling ones installed this week. When I am doing the first reflection points for the ceiling... Do I center the panel on each front channels speaker and then pick my first reflection point? The reason I am asking this is... If I use 3 2' wide panels, I will have a gap of about 3 1/2' between each panel, or I could install 4 (but then none of them will line up with the speaker). If I install them (3) 90 degrees I would then have 4' long panels with less than 1 foot in between them, but would need at least 2 rows. I could install as many as 7 in a single row which would give me about 90% coverage on the ceiling for first reflection. What is the best way to do this, as I have about 16' of width to play with?


----------



## bpape

Bass control will tighten the bass and help with it cancelling itself out.

Not sure what you mean about the reflections being over the main speakers? If the speakers are at approx ear level, then the reflection will be 1/2 way along the diagonal between each seat and the speaker.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Bass control will tighten the bass and help with it cancelling itself out.
> 
> Not sure what you mean about the reflections being over the main speakers? If the speakers are at approx ear level, then the reflection will be 1/2 way along the diagonal between each seat and the speaker.


What I mean is.... Do I put the panels like this (speakers in front of room, and panels arranged on ceiling as...):

A: 

B: 

C: 

tia,
Ron


----------



## bpape

Whatever it takes to catch the reflection points you map. Definitely will not be directly in front of the left and right speakers.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Whatever it takes to catch the reflection points you map. Definitely will not be directly in front of the left and right speakers.


With Horns... Won't the sound be going upward and outward... If so I would think the ceiling would have first reflection points for the full width of the room. Am I wrong?

Here is a link to the horns... http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/23606566.pdf

tia,
Ron


----------



## bpape

Just mark the points and cover them. you don't want too much and overdamp the room.


----------



## NBPk402

What is the preferred method of hanging the ceiling panels... The ceiling has 2 layers of 5/8" drywall with Green-glue. I am worried about penetrating the ceiling, and I am not sure if I can find the hat channels since it is completely painted (if I miss a panel then I have an unwanted hole).


----------



## bpape

That's unfortunate that the channel is not marked. Would make life a lot easier. If you know approximately where they are, you could run 1x3 or 1x4's perpendicular and screw into the channels and the 1x would cover any unused holes. Then put hooks in the 1x to hang the panels.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> That's unfortunate that the channel is not marked. Would make life a lot easier. If you know approximately where they are, you could run 1x3 or 1x4's perpendicular and screw into the channels and the 1x would cover any unused holes. Then put hooks in the 1x to hang the panels.


I wonder if this would work...


----------



## NBPk402

I don't know what i was thinking when I said I had a 180" diagonal screen... Ever since i got the Panny, I have been complaining that there was something wrong because I couldn't fill the screen with a 2.35:1 movie even though I had the right throw. Well tonight i found out something... My screen is 180" wide not diagonal! I have been watching my 2.35:1 movies at 180" diagonal. The screen will actually do a 195" diagonal 2.35:1 movie. I am all set when I want to get a brighter, shorter throw projector down the road. :T


----------



## chrapladm

Thats crazy talk. 195" wow.


----------



## willis7469

Hey Ellis, how much are tickets for your cinema? Lol


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Thats crazy talk. 195" wow.


 :T



willis7469 said:


> Hey Ellis, how much are tickets for your cinema? Lol


LOL

Hence the title... Go Big or Go Home.  I plan on living here till I die, so this is my final HT room. I might change out projectors,PCs, and processors, but that is about it. Speakers (at least the front 3), and subs are forever. :T

Every time I sit down to watch a movie it is like I am in a private screening room.


----------



## chrapladm

Sorry if this has been posted, I get lost at times, but does your screen look like Imax?

In other words it fills the room from side to side?

That is going to be my goal in years down the road when I get a chance to build a HT room.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Sorry if this has been posted, I get lost at times, but does your screen look like Imax?
> 
> In other words it fills the room from side to side?
> 
> That is going to be my goal in years down the road when I get a chance to build a HT room.


LOL... It goes about 6" from one wall, and about 6" from the rack on the other wall, so it is pretty close to wall to wall at the screen end plus screen frame rests on the stage and goes almost to the ceiling. Down the road when I see a LED projector that is bright enough and short throw I will move on to it so I can go from 180 to 195" diagonal for 2.35:1 movies. It is already like sitting in a real small movie theater though.


----------



## chrapladm

And ya thats what I hope for in years to come. Wall to wall roughly. I've been looking at some short throw PJ's also lately. After I finish up a few builds, that will be next on my buy list. Maybe a 80" screen and will only have about 7ft throw. But thats another day. No wall to wall but this is just a living room


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> And ya thats what I hope for in years to come. Wall to wall roughly. I've been looking at some short throw PJ's also lately. After I finish up a few builds, that will be next on my buy list. Maybe a 80" screen and will only have about 7ft throw. But thats another day. No wall to wall but this is just a living room


Sounds like a plan. :T


----------



## showcattleguy

Looks like a cool build I will be subscribing. I wish I had the space for a 150 plus inch screen but maybe that can be a feature of my next house.


----------



## NBPk402

showcattleguy said:


> Looks like a cool build I will be subscribing. I wish I had the space for a 150 plus inch screen but maybe that can be a feature of my next house.


 We went pretty much wall to wall... This enabled us to hide all our front channel speakers and one sub behind (or under) the screen. :T


----------



## showcattleguy

Yeah we went wall to wall also as we have our front sound stage behind the screen and even still I could only eek out a 110 inch wide 2.35 screen. Our room is only 12 ft wide though. What do you plan on using to light up a screen that monsterous?


----------



## NBPk402

showcattleguy said:


> Yeah we went wall to wall also as we have our front sound stage behind the screen and even still I could only eek out a 110 inch wide 2.35 screen. Our room is only 12 ft wide though. What do you plan on using to light up a screen that monsterous?


I am using the Panasonic AE8000.... I am only able to make it to 180" (diagonal) 2.35 as we ran out of depth in the room to hit 195" (diagonal) Our room is 19 feet wide..


----------



## ALMFamily

Ok, I am all caught up - looking great Ron! Looking forward to seeing the final result!


----------



## NBPk402

ALMFamily said:


> Ok, I am all caught up - looking great Ron! Looking forward to seeing the final result!


Hopefully it won't be much longer before it is completed. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I only need to get some rca to XLR connectors , and 1 Speakon connector and I can start on the bi-amp setup!. 

I was going to do it today, but we are having a Movie night tomorrow, and I don't want any problems. I have learned from past experiences don't do any tinkering when you are planning on using the setup as Murphy s Law will rear its ugly head!


----------



## chrapladm

K.I.S.S. principle until after movie night.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> K.I.S.S. principle until after movie night.


YUP!:T


----------



## NBPk402

Today I started on the layout for the minidsps, T chip amps, and i3 NUCs. 

I have a little dilemma... I have a board that i am going to hang on the wall, and I would like to attach my T chip amps, MiniDSPs, and i3 NUCs to it. Any ideas of what would be a nice neat way to attach them to the wood panel?

[URL=http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/ellisr63/media/96214662-6d4d-4240-b41c-1f49d532fae1_zpsdc011d85.jpg.html][/URL]


----------



## Owen Bartley

The only thing that comes to mind right away for me are zip ties for something semipermanent, or velcro tape for easy removal. I'm not sure if those units get warm, which might affect the longevity of the tape.


----------



## NBPk402

I think I have a way that should look nice and work... I purchased some 1x1 Oaks strips, and some 1/4" x 1" Oak, glued them together, and now I am cutting them into blocks that will be used to separate the pieces. I will then use a 1/4" x 1" strip that will be screwed down on top of the blocks (holding the pieces in place). I will post some pics when I get this completed. Hopefully this new way will work. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Here is my solution (mock up)... I still need to make a new back board that is longer and wider (2'x8') which should allow me to add my 2 TV tuners as well as my other i3NUC to the setup. What do you think?
[URL=http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/ellisr63/media/20140915_185000_zpsb1741440.jpg.html][/URL]

[URL=http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/ellisr63/media/20140915_184948_zps376be486.jpg.html][/URL]


----------



## duder1982

I think it looks great, good job.


----------



## NBPk402

duder1982 said:


> I think it looks great, good job.


Thanks, I made it out of 1"x1" Oak with a layer of 1/4" Oak glued to it and then cut in 3" chunks. For the top I will be cutting it into sections so that each piece can be removed without taking off one large strip... Or at least that is the plan. Hopefully I will be able to get the next part done tomorrow.


----------



## Owen Bartley

Looks like someone needs some custom cables! 

It looks good, really clean. Is there enough room for the components to get some air? 

_E: (just noticed I already mentioned heat above... sorry, it's still early)._


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> Looks like someone needs some custom cables!
> 
> It looks good, really clean. Is there enough room for the components to get some air?
> 
> _E: (just noticed I already mentioned heat above... sorry, it's still early)._


The only devices that i think will get warm are the 2 i3NUCs... I have been thinking of mounting all the pieces to a piece of pegboard and then standing the pegboard off from the wall with a 2x4. If I do it that way the only area that won't be getting air is the 1" area on each side where the wood touches the component. The i3NUCs have their cooling on the bottom so I def need ventilation under them. The other option would be to make the whole back platform solid and use a hole saw to cut a vent hole for the i3NUCs, and install a small fan under it (the board would still be raised off the wall by at least a 2x4 distance). What do you think of that?


----------



## Owen Bartley

I think I'd definitely cut a hole under the components once your layout is finalized. Can't hurt, you won't be able to see it, and anything that has the potential to get warm will have a little extra breathing room.


----------



## NBPk402

I just punched in my room dimensions in and got this... 

What does this tell me I need to do in the room? Do I need to focus on the 22, 31, and 67 Hz to absorb first, and then work on the other frequencies?


----------



## bpape

22 and 31 you're not going to touch - just being honest. All that is telling you is that those are where your modes are and where they'll be in the room. It tells you nothing about the time domain, getting reflections dealt with, getting decay time down to a reasonable level across the spectrum, etc. 

It's really just a way that If you run into a problem, look at these and see if the problem matches up with one of these so you have a better idea of how to address it either via movement or treatment - or if neither of those can work and it's a peak, equalize it.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> 22 and 31 you're not going to touch - just being honest. All that is telling you is that those are where your modes are and where they'll be in the room. It tells you nothing about the time domain, getting reflections dealt with, getting decay time down to a reasonable level across the spectrum, etc.
> 
> It's really just a way that If you run into a problem, look at these and see if the problem matches up with one of these so you have a better idea of how to address it either via movement or treatment - or if neither of those can work and it's a peak, equalize it.


Does it give any info as to what seating locations would be best? I know that our front row seems to almost be in a null, as the sound is very spacious but there is little bass... where as the second row has plenty of bass but is not as spacious at all. 

The front row seating position is 10' from the rear wall, and the 2nd row is 4' (head locations).


----------



## bpape

That's why the 38% rule is used sometimes. If you look and imagine 38% between the 1/4 and 1/2 points on the graph, you'll see that it's a nice blend of all modes - no serious nulls or peaks at that point.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> That's why the 38% rule is used sometimes. If you look and imagine 38% between the 1/4 and 1/2 points on the graph, you'll see that it's a nice blend of all modes - no serious nulls or peaks at that point.


So the front seats are pretty close to the optimum seating then... 9.721' (which I can move the seating back to) being 38% from the rear wall, and the seating puts you 10' from the rear wall, correct?


----------



## bpape

In theory, yes. But remember, that's all theory. In a perfect rectangle that's made of 6' thick concrete, those rules will pretty much always work. In practice, there are lots of things in real rooms that may change a bit.

Also, remember that all that chart is looking at is axial modes. Not considering 2nd and 3rd order modes, SBIR, sub position, non-axial cancellations, etc. Consider it a pretty good/close starting point.


----------



## NBPk402

Well I just ordered what hopefully will be all I need to finish off the tuning of the room with Roxul R60 (it won't be in till early November as it was a special order out of Canada). I got enough to do the whole front wall 3" deep, plus enough for the area behind the 2nd row seating 6" deep. I have enough of the R80 left to do the ceiling panels. Now the fun part is to make all the fabric panel frames for the walls, and ceiling (most will be empty with just GOM stretched on them).


----------



## NBPk402

I put up a 4' long section of ProStar velvet on our flat black ceiling... WOW, I couldn't believe how much better it looks! I am doing it by myself, and found out it is a bit hard to do it wrinkle free (plus you need to do it in small pieces... I had wanted to do one 15' long piece, but there was no way without a couple of helpers), but it is so black you can't tell where the wrinkles are from standing on the ground. I rubbed it good to get it to adhere, and part of it came loose after about 10 minutes... I have went, and re rubbed it a few times since and it seems to be holding. We will see how it is in a day or two.


----------



## NBPk402

I decided to just put the ProStar covered pegboard panels up with sheetrock screws (angled).... Here are a couple of pictures of the ceiling comparing it to the flat painted ceiling, and JoAnnes Royal velvet (soffit panel surrounding the ceiling and upper frame of screen). I covered up the sheetrock screws with small pieces of ProStar so they are invisible too.




The pictures don't show anywhere near the drastic change it makes... The ceiling looks like about the same as the unmasked screen area next to the velvet. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I just put up the last of the 7 2' x 4' panels of pegboard wrapped in ProStar black velvet and....... IT LOOKS AWESOME! I still can't believe how much better it looks. I looks like the screen is just popping out of nowhere (except for the sides that still need to be masked). Going 4' deep on the ceiling with ProStar was the single biggest improvement for the image quality. I still have to get the Roxul R60 up on the wall behind the screen (3" is on order still), and then put up the black commando cloth for the whole wall behind the screen... I am hoping this takes it up to the next level (although i don't know how it could get much better). When I get the rear wall covered I will be removing the height channels, and moving the screen back another 2'. Then I will be shadow boxing in the last 2' with black velvet. There should be zero light reflection then as the ceiling will have 6' of velvet, the stage will be 2' deeper too. :T

Here are a couple of pics with my cellphone...

With flash...



Without flash...


----------



## NBPk402

Does anyone know if the MiniDSP would be better to use than the Berringer FBD? I am asking this because the Berringer only has EQ down to 20hz, and I am thinking that since my subs go lower but with less output it might allow me to boost the bass at a lower level.


----------



## chrapladm

There are many work arounds for the Behringer stuff so that you can EQ lower than 20hz. Might not be as precise as the MiniDSP but thats up to you.


----------



## willis7469

Got a BFD for pretty cheap... Still has the plastic on the display (shipping protection). Plus the guide I printed from HTS, and a couple cables. If your interested that is.


----------



## bpape

Be careful trying to pump really low frequencies like that. Good way to blow an amp.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> There are many work arounds for the Behringer stuff so that you can EQ lower than 20hz. Might not be as precise as the MiniDSP but thats up to you.


It sounds like the MiniDSP is the better one for the job... If you had both, which would you choose for subs?


----------



## chrapladm

MiniDSP.


----------



## willis7469

chrapladm said:


> MiniDSP.


 +1


----------



## NBPk402

I will sell the FBD, and use the extra MiniDSP 2x4 that I have. :T


Interesting thing... Today my Yamaha P7000s died (only had it in service since the beginning of July too). I unplugged it, and let it sit for a while and plugged it back in, and it is dead... no lights, nada, nothing at all.

Good thing it is under warranty. 

So since it was dead I decided to use one of my P2500s amps for the subs for now, and I found out something interesting...

When I was using the P7000s I had to turn the gain up full on one channel, and 3/4 on the other channel to get Audyssey to calibrate the subs. When I hooked up the P2500s it calibrated both of them at about 7/8 level equally! I had originally thought that the P7000s was doing that due to one sub in front of the room, and the other being behind me, but I now believe it was defective. The other issue with the P7000s was a hum... The P2500 has one but it is much lower.

I will call Yamaha in the morning to see about getting the P7000s repaired.


----------



## NBPk402

I called Yamaha this morning, and explained the problem, and they are sending me the info for a local repair shop. I have to say that the person I was dealing with was one of the most pleasant that I have ever had to deal with for a repair issue. No reading of scripts like when I had to deal with Epson... Just told him the problem, and it was a done deal. :T


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Be careful trying to pump really low frequencies like that. Good way to blow an amp.


How do i know how much (or if at all) I can boost the low end with my Yamaha p7000s?


----------



## NBPk402

On a different note... A few weeks ago we had a power outage and ever since my Insteon Lighting was working off and on until it stopped communicating period with the ISY994i. I ordered a replacement ISY thinking that was the problem but it didn't solve it. I got a new modem under warranty, and that wasn't it either... I finally called Universal Devices about the ISY. The Tech had me run through a few things and came to the conclusion that it was electrical noise. He told me to unplug everything, and then re-plug them in one by one until I find a device that makes it stop working again. I was dreading that and tried a noise filter and re routing my power cords in the rack to no avail. A friend of mine came over and said if it is noise I should try wrapping the cords around a magnet... I then remembered back to my Audiophile days where I had used TDK magnets to eliminate noise. I dug into my junk, and fount about a dozen of them... I put one on each cord that was going into my UPS (including the UPS power cord), and decided to try it again. It worked! Now I can get back to working on my room again. :flex:


----------



## duder1982

Looks like you have had some kinks to work out, but seems to be getting worked out. Nice.


----------



## NBPk402

Yeah, I am hoping my Contractor completes his job this weekend and finishes the hallway, and HVAC part so I can continue with the everything else. :T


----------



## bpape

Sorry - been swamped. Try bumping it up just a little bit and see if the response follows. If not, then they're likely modal nulls and you won't fix them just with a level adjustment. You'll need to address one of the 2 cancelling waves via room treatment. Or, play with the sub position and see if you can gain a little there, or both.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Sorry - been swamped. Try bumping it up just a little bit and see if the response follows. If not, then they're likely modal nulls and you won't fix them just with a level adjustment. You'll need to address one of the 2 cancelling waves via room treatment. Or, play with the sub position and see if you can gain a little there, or both.


Thanks Bryan


----------



## NBPk402

If I move my 4" absorber panels to the ceiling and make new 4" panels for the walls...

What would happen if I put pegboard on the front side of the panels and then wrapped them with GOM? Would that allow me to use more panels (to help with the bass traps) without hitting the highs too much? My thinking is that the pegboard would allow some high frequencies to be absorbed and reflect most of them... While at the same time absorbing some of the bass.


----------



## bpape

If you want to not hit the highs, use a membrane of some sort. Mass will determine the cutoff - FSK, Pond Liner, or even MLV will cut off progressively lower.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> If you want to not hit the highs, use a membrane of some sort. Mass will determine the cutoff - FSK, Pond Liner, or even MLV will cut off progressively lower.


I take it that I should not put any membrane on first reflection points, correct? If I use a membrane (not on first reflection points) can I do all the walls with 4" thick Roxul, or will that still be too much? Is this a good idea?


----------



## bpape

Reflection points need to be full range. I would not cover all the wall surface with anything. Too much. You need to know what your target decay time curve should be, address the things you know you need to do (front wall, reflections, and broadband bass control), then see what you have left and balance it out accordingly.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Reflection points need to be full range. I would not cover all the wall surface with anything. Too much. You need to know what your target decay time curve should be, address the things you know you need to do (front wall, reflections, and broadband bass control), then see what you have left and balance it out accordingly.


So basically... I should make my front, and rear wall panels, and first reflections for ceiling, and walls, and then measure?


----------



## bpape

And corners.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> And corners.


I will be using 6" of Roxul 60 on the whole rear wall... I was thinking of angling the panels in the rear corners with the same panels that are on the rear wall... Is that enough? The front wall will have 3" of Roxul R60 wall to wall... Do I need to build out some more for the corners too?


----------



## bpape

Use a membrane on the rear wall - don't want to kill your surround field. 6" flat on a wall on a good day might do 70-75Hz leaving 2 octaves untreated. 6" Straddling a corner at 45 degrees will probably do 45ish.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Use a membrane on the rear wall - don't want to kill your surround field. 6" flat on a wall on a good day might do 70-75Hz leaving 2 octaves untreated. 6" Straddling a corner at 45 degrees will probably do 45ish.


When I straddle the corners... Should I leave the space open behind the panels or fill it with more materials?


----------



## bpape

filling in will help them go lower.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> filling in will help them go lower.


:T


----------



## NBPk402

Today I had a little time so I worked on the Bi-Amp rack... Here are a few pics of it.


----------



## NBPk402

Went to the Dr. the other day for my yearly checkup... My Dr. said i am deficient in vitamin D. From what i understand that is from a lack of sunlight... Looks like i need to start getting out of the HT more often. Today i am going to head over to the Cynosport World Championship Dog Competition where my wife is competing with 2 of our Border Collies...
http://www.usdaa.com/article.cfm?newsID=2384


----------



## chrapladm

Good luck to the wife and enjoy your, hopefully, sunny day.:T


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Good luck to the wife and enjoy your, hopefully, sunny day.:T


Thanks,
One of our dogs finished 6th in the finals today, and the other finished 6th in the semi finals today (she will be competing in the finals on Sunday). :T


----------



## chrapladm

Wow congrats so far.


----------



## NBPk402

Todays project will be covering the 2 doors in the hallway with GOM. I will also be installing the weatherstripping, and hopefully get my "Man Cave" sign installed... I am waiting for the power cords to arrive for lighting the sign, and hallway as it is pitch black in the hallway. Once I have that done I have a few panels left to make for the hallway, and then make the ceiling fabric panels.


----------



## NBPk402

Still haven't gotten the hallway done as my eye doctor is trying different contact lenses on me and my vision is still messed up. I do however have a new Peerless AV rack arriving (hopefully) Tuesday night. It is a 30U rack with casters (which will be not be installed). This will hopefully hold the following pieces:
AVR
3 Yamaha amps
PS3
Xbox 360
Cisco Gigabit switch
HDDVD player
Monster power filter

My INUCs, MiniDSPs, T chip amps, TV tuners, and ISY 994i will be attached 2 2 2x4 panels and hung on the wall. I am going to build a false wall that will hide all of the equipment, and ventilated with GOM. The GOM panels will be removable for easy access.

I am thinking of moving the NAS to a closet since it is the noisiest piece, and it is not needed in the HT room.

I will try and get some pics of the new amp setup when I get it installed... Currently i am working on getting my NAS reconfigured with my 2 additional 6TB NAS hdds. I am trying to store all my data differently on the hdds (not striped), and this is going to take a while since I am moving 10TB of data around.


----------



## NBPk402

Today I worked on the ISY994i... I was able to get some scenes completed, and figured out how to integrated some dusk to dawn programming too. I now have a Scene controller switch set up to (Home Theater only):
A: Turn on just the Spot lights
B: Turn on all the lights to 100%, and turn on the Pond Spot lights if after dusk (pond is the entrance to the HT).
C: Turn off the Spots, turn on the sub amp, and dim all the appropriate lights for watching a movie.
D: Turn on all the lights after a Movie is over.
E: Turn off all the lights, amps, and dim the hall lights and pond lights for 4 minutes till off (this gives enough time to exit to the area)

Next I am going to install a Insteon door sensor for the entrance to the pond so I can have the lights go on "if it is after sunset and they are not already on".

I was actually surprised as to how easy it was for me since I am not a programmer, and this is all pretty new to me.


----------



## NBPk402

Question:

I keep looking at the baffle wall possibility for my HT... 

What would happen if I was to use the 3" Roxul on the wall behind the AT screen, move my AT screen back to 4' from the rear wall (which will allow me to watch at 195" scope), and then build another wall with acoustic panels made of Roxul R60 as a baffle wall with the screen in front of the baffle wall? 

Would this make it a better bass trap since it would have 3" on the rear wall, and another 3" for a baffle wall with a 4' cavity? 

Would it be better to just do the baffle wall?

Are their any disadvantages to a baffle wall?

Advantages?


----------



## bpape

Do the false wall for the screen just studs and fabric. Do the 3" on the real front wall.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Do the false wall for the screen just studs and fabric. Do the 3" on the real front wall.


We have the Screen up and it is within 1' from either side wall (we will have panels wrapped with Velvet covering the 1' area that is left)... So you are saying just do the real back wall with the 3", and cover it with the black material, and call it a day?


----------



## bpape

The real hard wall behind the speakers - yes. 4" would be better given the speaker restrictions and the frequencies in question if you have the space.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> The real hard wall behind the speakers - yes. 4" would be better given the speaker restrictions and the frequencies in question if you have the space.


OK... As soon as the Roxul 60 arrives I will put one layer on the real wall behind the front speakers, and 2 layers behind the 2nd row of seating against that wall. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Just got my Roxul in... They shorted me by one bundle and it was damaged.  I negotiated the price due to the damage and got it for $44 a bundle (7 bundles). They are ordering my missing bundle and hopefully I will have it by the beginning of December (orders come from Canada for the Roxul 60).

This will be for the single layer behind the screen, and also for the double layer behind the second row seating.







[/URL][/IMG]

I also received my new Peerless rack... So over the next few days, I will be dis assembling the old rack and installing the new rack, making the frames for the wall behind the AT screen (2x4s), and then ordering the 1/2 x6 pieces for the rear wall frames. I will then be covering the wall behind the screen with Black Commando Cloth, and the rear wall with black, and, or Blue GOM.


----------



## NBPk402

Just got done moving all 7 bundles to the HT... I am beat (about 100')! What i would have given to be 20 years younger today!


----------



## eclipse911t

bpape said:


> The real hard wall behind the speakers - yes. 4" would be better given the speaker restrictions and the frequencies in question if you have the space.


Brian,

Are there instance you do suggest a baffle wall?
Do you see advantages/disadvantages?

Thanks!


----------



## NBPk402

I got the Yamaha back... Apparently there was a defect in the output transformers (I think that is what they called it), and they shorted out. Normally the short would have been protected from causing more damage,b b ut in my case it wasn't and they had to replace a board. They said they have only had 2 other P7000s amps ever come in, and they had the same problem as mine (just that the protection did protect it). Other than that they have seen some P5000s amps but no other Yamaha Pro amps. They said the Yamaha Pro amps last forever. 

I worked on getting my new rack up, and getting the MiniDSPs going all day yesterday. When I got everything up and running I found that I have noise coming out of my P2500s amps when I turn them on (they had been used for my sub amps and worked flawlessly). I think it is the rca to XLR cables, as i disconnected the the RCA end from the MiniDSP, and it went silent.. I am going to head over to Guitar Center toady, and get some Vampire Wire RCA to XLR cables, and try them out. I think I also might have a bad RCA cable going out of the MiniDSP to my Topping T chip amp (or I have a bad connector on the MiniDSP), as I am getting no sound to my left horn. I tried switching the input cables to the Mini DSP and the sound moved appropriately.


----------



## NBPk402

The last 2 days have been hard! I just got the problems solved that happened with the new rack install. I rewired the T chip amps, installed another new set of XLR to RCA cables, and installed cheater plugs, and magnets on all my computer pieces. The noise problems I had were all from the NUCs. I even had them all going to the Monster power conditioner, and it still couldn't get rid of the noise. I ended up putting cheater plugs on the ends and now it is perfectly quiet.


----------



## NBPk402

I am very pleased with the way the MiniDSPs worked out as crossovers for my setup. Hopefully in the next few weeks a friend of mine will get some time to help me dial them in with REW.

For now i did something that came out nicely but I am sure it is not the correct way to get an active crossover up and running.

This is what I did...
In the past with the La Scala crossovers as a temporary crossover Audyssey would give me a 150-250hz crossover.  I saw on line where someone made a comment that it might be doing that because the Horns were so much more efficient than the 1/4 pie bass bins, so I decided to do a little experiment.

First I lowered the gain going to the horns and then ran Audyssey... It moved my crossover closer to the 80hz that I felt it should be at so I continued to play with the levels until I was able to get a 80hz crossover. Once i had it to that point I maxed out my gain going to the 1/4 pies, and then slowly raised the gain on the horns, re ran Audyssey, and repeated until I got to the 80 hz goal. Then I saved it and watched some music videos, and a movie. I must say it def sounded better all around. I am sure that once we run REW it will show a lot of work still needs to be done to get it dialed in, but I believe we are closer than we were with the La Scala crossovers.


----------



## NBPk402

Last night i sat down and listened to some stereo tracks... It was the first time i have listened in Bi-Amp mode vs Audyssey. I have to say i was pleasantly surprised by the sound. The Topping T chip amps appear to be up to the task of driving the horns no problem. I listened at a fairly loud level as well as lower levels to see how they sounded... I noticed that the KPT3002, and the HIPs were noticeably brighter sounding. I actually preferred the horns in Bi-amp mode, and even tried it in direct mode (no Audyssey), and that sounded pretty good too. One track I was listening to had a little bell that is off to the right of the stage and it was projecting it to my right while i was sitting in the 2nd row! Now this would be great if my soundstage was like that for all my music, but it is not to that point yet. Tonally I much prefer the horns to my old La Scalas (which I loved). We will see what we can find out when we run REW... Once we get that far we will know what we need to do to tune the room properly (hopefully).


Today i need to work on the AprilAire multizone HVAC setup to get 3 zones working (still have to run the wires for the other 3 zones)


----------



## NBPk402

A big thanks to jtalden for helping me get my front 3 channels dialed in... Without his help I would not be at the point i am now. :T:T

This is what we ended up with...


----------



## NBPk402

We had a little scare yesterday... Our friend was over trying to figure out why our HVAC stopped working and discovered we had 150v to each of our outlets! We called PG&E and they think it was a bad connection on the line to the house... They replaced the connectors and measured and it was normal again.

Apparently the 150v took out my Damper transformer, zone controller, and 3 Thermostats (at $300 each). I will call PG&E today to find out how to file for a damages claim.


----------



## Jeff L

ellisr63 said:


> We had a little scare yesterday... Our friend was over trying to figure out why our HVAC stopped working and discovered we had 150v to each of our outlets! We called PG&E and they think it was a bad connection on the line to the house... They replaced the connectors and measured and it was normal again.
> 
> Apparently the 150v took out my Damper transformer, zone controller, and 3 Thermostats (at $300 each). I will call PG&E today to find out how to file for a damages claim.


Sorry to hear that, similar experience at my business, they were connecting new 3 phase lines @ 230volts and instead went 460volts,fried my bridge saw panel, compressor, 5hp router transformer couple computers. :spend:9k worth and took me almost 8 months to get it. Honestly I think they got sick of me walking in the office once week and complaining. be relentless, squeaky wheel gets the greaseaddle:


----------



## NBPk402

Jeff L said:


> Sorry to hear that, similar experience at my business, they were connecting new 3 phase lines @ 230volts and instead went 460volts,fried my bridge saw panel, compressor, 5hp router transformer couple computers. :spend:9k worth and took me almost 8 months to get it. Honestly I think they got sick of me walking in the office once week and complaining. be relentless, squeaky wheel gets the greaseaddle:


WOW... Ours isn't as bad as yours was. Did you pay for it out of pocket and then it took that long to get reimbursed? My friend said what saved our Audio rack, and computers was the Monster 7000 power filter as it adjusts the voltage to what is safe.

After 2 crews coming out they changed the connections on each end of the line running to our house and the transformer... re tested and now it is fine. So far we have the 24v transformer, zone controller, and 3 thermostats that are bad. I ordered the replacements today and parts alone was $1100. I think by the time this is done PG&E will have close to a $2k bill. Now today I also notice that our ISY (HA Lighting controller is acting weird... It will work via switches and the web but not via the LAN or wireless. If that is damaged it is another $200+ for the part. I just hope PG&E covers the whole bill. I still need to order an new Transformer too.


----------



## NBPk402

Update: 
I haven't gotten anything done in the last week as we are waiting until the HVAC work is all done. After that point I have a laborer that is going to come over and help me get the front and rear wall acoustics completed.

Since we have the front three channels dialed in with REW I have been listening to my CDs, and music videos in 2.1. I have to tell you that i am so pleased as to the way it sounds! This is the first time i have ever heard a sub that integrated so well with speakers without having the one note bass. I have had a couple of friends over and they have also commented on how well the setup is now integrated. Next on the tuning will be dialing in the subs to see if they can get even better! :T


I just installed a Darbee 5000 last night, and it makes a night and day difference on my setup. When I turn it on it is like I just fine tuned the focus. It is most noticeable when I turn it off and see the whole image appear to go a bit out of focus. I picked mine up BNIB at www.smarthome.com for $257 as a closeout item.:T


----------



## bpape

Good deal! Now you're hooked.... :jiggy:


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Good deal! Now you're hooked.... :jiggy:


Reminds me of the old days of kicking back and listening to music for hours every night. :T


----------



## phillihp23

I just checked the website and they list it as $319...how did you pick it up for $60 dollars less?

*Update*
I ended up purchasing one new in box for $184 out the door on ebay.


----------



## NBPk402

phillihp23 said:


> I just checked the website and they list it as $319...how did you pick it up for $60 dollars less?


Click on it to add it to your cart and the 25% discount is subtracted from the price. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Update: Yesterday we...
1. Pulled the screen down
2. Built a 2x4 framework for the Roxul R60 3"
3. Installed the Roxul from the ceiling to the bottom of the bass bins wall to wall
4. Covered the wall, and ceiling with Black Commando Cloth (behind the screen)
5. Moved the Bass Bins as close as possible to the treated wall, and then aimed the bass bins and horns (with the horns being on the front edge of the bass bins) for the MLP Since the front of the bass bins are curved and the horns are straight... We took some denim insulation and put it under the lip of the horns to stop reflection from the bass bin.
6. Re installed the Screen in it's new location (a little over a foot closer to the back wall).
7. Re ran Audyssey

So far it seems like all the music appears to be clearer, and sharper? The sub bass seems to be perfectly blended with the rest of the system. So far there has not been an indication at all of "one note bass". We still have plenty of R60 for the rear wall to go 6-9" deep too.

When I get my replacement mic in, I will run REW to see what has changed and what we need to do for fine tuning still.

We will be selling the KP3002 speakers (side surrounds), and replacing them with the Klipsch HIPs (same as rear surround)

In the next few weeks I hope to get all the scoustic panels made up, and a good chunk of the (non absorbing) wall panels made up to... Goal is before Xmas.

HVAC 3 Zone will hopefully be completed in the next 2 weeks. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I have been listening to FLAC recordings ripped to my NAS, and made some observations about my system the way it is today. All of the songs were at -10 volume level in stereo with the subs.

*AC/DC- Ride On* sounds the best I have ever heard it sound!
Bass is nice, and powerful being seamless into the subs, Guitar is crystal clear as are the vocals. Every thing that comes out of the speakers has a distinctness to it.

*Wang Chung- Praying to a new God* has the vocals sounding recessed into the stage. Very flat sound-stage. I can def hear the ambiance in the room very distinctly. All of the vocals are crystal clear. Not congested at all.

*AC/DC- You Shook me all night long* sounded great with just a little bit of raspy in the lead vocals.

*Toni Childs- Walk and talk like Angels* had a bit of a recessed sound stage in the beginning but excellent clarity, and with the horns sounding great. Vocals were crystal clear even when the high note were hit.

*Yaz- Bring your love down* sounded superb! with just a bit of ambiance in most of the recording which gave it just enough to make you feel like you were in the room. I am still trying to get to the point where I can accurately judge the depth of the stage. 

*White Lion- When the Children Cry* is an all time favorite ballad of mine, and I was not let down at all. Excellent placement on the stage, and just the tinge of being raspy in his voice that I recall from my other setups in the past. 

*Yello- Flag* sounded superb from the bottom end to the top end.

*ZZTop-Got me under pressure* didn't have the warm bass that I recall. The whole song had a very dry sound (as did other ZZTop songs I listened to)

*ZZ-TOP Sharp dressed man *didn't have the bottom end I recall nor did it sound as clear as I recall, but I did hear vocals in areas that I don't recall hearing them (toward the beginning of the song). I might have to bring out the CD and re listen as there was a lot of raspy on this song that I don't recall.

*Talking Heads-Psycho Killer* sounded very crystal clear with just a tinge of the cymbals appearing to be chopped off. Very good impact on the song on the drums, and guitars.

*Yello- La Habanera * sounded superb... Sound the best I have heard it sound. Everything was crystal clear and very distinct on the sound-stage. None of the notes sounded chopped off in the slightest. Def had some good depth too. Bass was very powerful to, . Def a superb recording.

*Ray Lynch- Celestial Soda Pop* had excellent delineation in space of all instruments. Another superb recording.

This setup has me back to enjoying my stereo setup again! 

It also makes me wonder if when i install the rear 9" thick Roxul panels if i should be looking at putting a rubber membrane on the front to stop from sucking the life out of the room. My acoustic panels that I am currently using for my side panels will be going on the ceiling... With new panels being made for the walls. Should i use a rubber membrane on all the rest of the panels to stop from over damping the room?


----------



## bpape

Do you want a listening room or a home theater? 2 different sets of design goals. The room is set up as a home theater with a shorter decay time. 

Side reflection panels need to be full range. The wall behind you absolutely use the membrane.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Do you want a listening room or a home theater? 2 different sets of design goals. The room is set up as a home theater with a shorter decay time.
> 
> Side reflection panels need to be full range. The wall behind you absolutely use the membrane.


Thanks Brian, I didn't realize they were 2 different designs. I will build the rear wall with the rubber liner over the front and build more side panels full range.

The room is making big improvements so far in the sound. Thanks again foir your assistance. :T


----------



## bpape

Happy to help. You just kind of need to prioritize which way you want to lean - more toward HT or more toward 2 channel. You could do diffusion at the early reflections for the 2 channel main seat to liven things up a bit more also then do absorption for the other side panels.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Happy to help. You just kind of need to prioritize which way you want to lean - more toward HT or more toward 2 channel. You could do diffusion at the early reflections for the 2 channel main seat to liven things up a bit more also then do absorption for the other side panels.


So i could do my first first reflection point as Diffusion, and then the other 3 panels as absorption? Maybe i will try that out. I would still do my ceiling as absorption for the first reflection, correct? :T


----------



## bpape

Yes. Just fine the reflections for the center 2 channel seat and treat those with diffusion. Get something that's going to get down reasonably low. A 6" thick diffuser should get down to around 300Hz.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Yes. Just fine the reflections for the center 2 channel seat and treat those with diffusion. Get something that's going to get down reasonably low. A 6" thick diffuser should get down to around 300Hz.


Sounds good... I have some old plans for the RPG QRD type diffusers... I am assuming that would be better than the RPG SkyLine type? :T


----------



## bpape

Skylines are a QRD type design. They're just not deep enough for what we want to do. Plan on at least 6" deep.


----------



## Tonto

It would be great if you could post those plans or do a build thread. Haven't seen much on diffusor builds & I'm more than likey going to need them (or a reasonable faximily) in my room as well.


----------



## dougc

2nd this - I have been looking at building some too. They look very tedious to make


----------



## NBPk402

Years ago I made two of them 4' x 4', and I really liked them. This time i will most likely do them in 2' x 2', and then cover them with black Acoustically Transparent GOM.

These are the ones I purchased... http://www.acousticfields.com/product/qrd-11-quadratic-diffusor/ (I am not sure about posting ones that were purchased... Plus they are pretty inexpensive).

Here are some free ones... http://arqen.com/sound-diffusers/

Here is a calculator... http://arqen.com/sound-diffusers/


----------



## bpape

Be very careful. All of those designs are symmetric patterns. Repeating symmetric patterns next to each other can cause comb filtering. If your requirements are to have 2 diffusers next to each other then they need to be asymmetric and the pair needs to be hung mirror imaged to each other.

The plans from Argen are only 50-60mm deep so not much good below about 7-800hz. 

Try QRDude to design your own

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-acoustics/21748-qrdude-diffuser-calculator.html

Pay attention to the 'rules' it checks against.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Be very careful. All of those designs are symmetric patterns. Repeating symmetric patterns next to each other can cause comb filtering. If your requirements are to have 2 diffusers next to each other then they need to be asymmetric and the pair needs to be hung mirror imaged to each other.
> 
> The plans from Argen are only 50-60mm deep so not much good below about 7-800hz.
> 
> Try QRDude to design your own
> 
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/home-audio-acoustics/21748-qrdude-diffuser-calculator.html
> 
> Pay attention to the 'rules' it checks against.


Thanks Bryan, I will look at QRDude and design my own. :T


----------



## NBPk402

It looks like , if I can cover them with AT GOM, I can go a max of 10" deep per side (using the Diffusers as a masking panel too). Since I am as large as I can possible go already due to no more room to move the projector back... The only way I could go larger would be to move my Rack (which would be a major rework). Should I go the max depth I can? 10" will give me down to 226Hz, where as 8" will give me 283Hz.


----------



## bpape

Masking panels on the front wall? You want absorption there. The diffusion was for side wall reflections.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Masking panels on the front wall? You want absorption there. The diffusion was for side wall reflections.


The panels will be for first reflection mounted on the side walls but the thickness of them will be doing a double duty as masking the screen or in other wards making a side boarder for the front screen.

Like this...


----------



## NBPk402

Here is the door handle temporarily mounted on our inner HT door. Also here is a picture of the same style door handle on the outside of the HT (I will have the same work done to the outer door handle so it matches the inner door handle). Light is powered by a 9v battery. The inner door still needs the fabric panels to be made and installed.


----------



## bpape

If your reflection points are truly that close to the front wall that's fine. That said, the right speaker reflection off of the left wall certainly will not be.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> If your reflection points are truly that close to the front wall that's fine. That said, the right speaker reflection off of the left wall certainly will not be.


:T:T


----------



## NBPk402

Picked up a new toy for the HT yesterday at Costco... I got the Samsung Galaxy Tab 5. I will be using it to control my AV equipment, lighting, HVAC, and to monitor the ELK M1 when it is installed. The picture on the tablet is awesome! I can't believe they have 2560x1600 (WQXGA) Super AMOLED display on this little 10.5" screen.


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday we built the framework for the rear wall bass trap (except for the corners). We used 1x10s, and 3 layers of Roxul R60, covered it with rubber sheeting, and then re ran Audyssey. I listened to some Music and I am noticing even tighter bass than before. I had my wife come in and listen and she also commented about how much better the room was sounding. Here are some pictures of the install... Next will be making the fabric panels for the rear wall, and corner bass traps.


----------



## phillihp23

ellisr63 said:


> I just installed a Darbee 5000 last night, and it makes a night and day difference on my setup. When I turn it on it is like I just fine tuned the focus. It is most noticeable when I turn it off and see the whole image appear to go a bit out of focus.


What settings are you using?
Hi Def 60% ?

Is there a way to turn of the darbee setting box which shows on screen all the time?


----------



## NBPk402

phillihp23 said:


> What settings are you using?
> Hi Def 60% ?
> 
> Is there a way to turn of the darbee setting box which shows on screen all the time?


I am at Hi Def 70%	as I recall. There is a part in the settings that allows you to turn off the display.... It was accessible only from the buttons on the front of the unit.


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday was interesting... Last night I went to do a Demo of Tomorrow" at -10 (we have demoed at 0 in the past before our latest tuning), and it started out fine and then the whole rack shut down. I checked all the breakers and they were fine. I then started pulling the fuses on the Monster HPS 7000, and they were fine. I then removed all the plugs and plugged them into a power strip and all was fine. I looked at the manual for the HPS 7000 and found out that it had blew the breaker on the Monster HPS 7000. Strange thing is it has never drawn more than 5.5 amps and that was at reference level with the same movie. The Monster is rated at 1800w for the circuit breaker. Why would it do this? I have everything hooked back up again and it is working fine now although I haven't cranked it that high again.


----------



## NBPk402

This weekend we made about 20 or so more panels for the wall (still need to staple the GOM to them), and put 5 panels on the ceiling at first reflection points for MLP and 2nd row MLP. I really like the look of the 2' x 4' panels on the ceiling and I think I will do the rest of the ceiling with more 2' x 4' panels... Except I will make them cosmetic only so as to not over damp the room. I also got about 75% of the rear wall covered with fabric panels. I didn't have enough panels for the ceiling so we removed 4 of the first reflection panels from the side walls... I went this route since i had a helper, and I didn't know when I would have help for the ceiling panels again. One thing i noticed was that I appear to need side panels more than the ceiling as the sound is a bit brighter now than it was before.Here are some pics of the ceiling panels and rear wall (brightness and contrast were adjusted so you can see the images).


----------



## NBPk402

Today i received 8 more bales of R60 for my remaining first reflection points, and corner bass traps. I put 5 of them behind the rear row of seats, 2 up by the first reflection points (on the ground), and the other bale on the other side of the room in a first reflection point.


I then ran Audyssey, and made the following observations...

1. In the mids, and highs the clarity have increased significantly.
2. The bass is still there but about as tight as you could possibly ask for.


I had a friend over to see what he thought and he noticed the same things I did... Dramatic change in the sound (even though he has loved the sound from day 1 of the bi-amped setup). He commented that the voices and instruments were easily picked out when before voices in a chorus sounded like a chorus, and now they are sounding individual. He also noticed instruments that were easily picked out where they were not before (even though it sounded great).


Question: The bales are still wrapped in the plastic... What frequencies are absorbed with the plastic still on the bales? I am thinking that some frequencies in the mid and high are being absorbed now even though the sound is much clearer and even sounds more extended on the highs than before.


----------



## bpape

Really hard to say without knowing exactly what the plastic is. Suspect it's starting to roll off in the 4-500Hz range.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Really hard to say without knowing exactly what the plastic is. Suspect it's starting to roll off in the 4-500Hz range.


 So above 500Hz would be reflected?


----------



## bpape

Just purely guessing but probably not all that dense of a plastic so just guessing about the same as an FRK facing.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Just purely guessing but probably not all that dense of a plastic so just guessing about the same as an FRK facing.


Thanks Bryan... I was just curious as the sound change is dramatic... Not sure if i like it or not 100% but some parts I def do! As soon as my next shipment of GOM arrives I will finish my panels and bass traps and run Audyssey again.

Should I also put the rubber membrane on my rear corner bass traps like we did for the rear wall?


----------



## bpape

That's an option certainly if you want to restrict mid/high absorption though the rubber will start to reflect lower.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> That's an option certainly if you want to restrict mid/high absorption though the rubber will start to reflect lower.


So I should just use the GOM for the corner traps? The rubber I am using is a very thin pond liner like rubber on the rear wall 9" deep traps.


----------



## bpape

Really up to you. In the front, I prefer them full range. In the back you can use the membrane if you want.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Really up to you. In the front, I prefer them full range. In the back you can use the membrane if you want.


The front is only R80, and the rear is R80 covered in thin rubber... Just need to make the rear corner traps out of R60. If we use GOM will it be sucking the life out of the surrounds?


----------



## bpape

I would do the membrane on the rear corners.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> I would do the membrane on the rear corners.


Thanks Bryan. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Today we got the first reflection panels made and installed along with most of the new fake wall that hides the equipment rack and Blu-Ray storage rack. I ran Audyssey again, and then sat down to do some serious listening. I am still hearing more details that I had not heard previously!  

Interestingly last night my wife and I watched Pitch Perfect (for the hundredth time...) in our living room with our Monoprice in-wall speakers and Yamaha AVR (which I had just calibrated)... We watched the movie and it was good as usual. After the movie was over I went into the Home Theater and watched it again, and it was like it was a different movie! I know that my HT should sound better but the differences were dramatic. In our untreated living room the acoustics in the movie sounded like we were in a Ballroom, where as in the HT they sounded just like you would imagine them being in real life. Tonight my wife had a party and several friends wanted demoes of the HT... Everyone commented about how great the picture was and how they loved the way it sounded. I even noticed more little details that i hadn't heard previously. One comment was that every time they come over the system sounds dramatically different then it did the last time (listening to the same music). BryanP was spot on when he told me what to do to get the room tuned and I highly recommend that anyone that needs assistance contact him! We still have to make the rear corner traps, and finish the cosmetic wall panels... I am going to be very surprised if the rear bass traps make it sound even better (but I will be very happy if they can sound even better) than they do now. What is very interesting is that every time we get more panels completed and re-tuned we have no idea what to expect as the improvements are all over the place. For example... Adding the rear wall, and front wall bass traps tightened up the bass but also made the mid-range more prominent than it was before, but at the same time the articulation is unreal! I am so pleased with the outcome of my budget HT room, and DIY bi-amp setup.


I also have to say that 150" 16x9 and 180+ 2.40 is not too dim nor does it cause any eyestrain even from the first row of seating which is about 12' from the screen. In fact everyone who has watched a movie has preferred the front row unless they want the extreme bass of the second row (on top of the rear sub! I attest some of this is due to the fact that my Panasonic AE8000 is a little dimmer that it would be at 130" and thus is easier on the eyes, hence no eyestrain.


One little thing I did for the audio that appears to have dramatically help is... I calibrated my MLP as 1/2 the distance from the listeners ears in the front row, and the second row (height wise). What this did was make the front row, and the second row center seats have almost identical sound! Originally the front row was very spacious but lacking bass, and the 2nd row had tremendous bass but not as spacious of a sound as the front row. When we tried the new mike setup it dialed them both in (both have good bass, (but the rear is still a little better), but both are just as spacious. One other thing that makes this work for me is the mike is now at almost the exact same height as the center of my horns.


----------



## chrapladm

Sounds like things are finally getting dialed in. Wish I could add more to your thread but all I can do is watch and learn :T


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Sounds like things are finally getting dialed in. Wish I could add more to your thread but all I can do is watch and learn :T


I am still learning too.


----------



## eclipse911t

ellisr63 said:


> I am still learning too.


Would a summary of acoustic treatments be possible?

Just a quick, what's where, etc. I have seen this has been an evolving project, but haven't seen a summary. 

Thanks!


----------



## NBPk402

eclipse911t said:


> Would a summary of acoustic treatments be possible?
> 
> Just a quick, what's where, etc. I have seen this has been an evolving project, but haven't seen a summary.
> 
> Thanks!


This is what we have so far...

First reflection panels:

1. (3) 2'x4' panels on the left and right walls made of 2 layers of Roxul R80 2" thick sheets (6 in total).
2. (6) 2'x4' panels on the ceiling made the same as the side wall panels.
3. Front wall behind screen is covered with 3" of Roxul R60 wall to wall, and 4' high (from the ceiling to 4' down).
4. Rear wall has 9" of Roxul R60 wall to wall EXCEPT for the corners which should be done this week (the corner traps will be of R80).
5. Front stage is stuffed with R19 Pink Fluffy, and topped with OSB.
6. Rear seating stage is stuffed with Pink Fluffy, and topped with OSB.


Room Construction:

1. Room within a room construction with R19 insulation (inner, and outer walls).
2. Complete sub floor is stuffed with R19 topped with OSB.
3; One layer of OSB covers the wall with a 2nd layer of drywall separated by Green Glue on all four walls.
4. Hat channels on the ceiling with 2 layers of drywall separated by Green Glue.
5. 2 solid core wood doors with 2 layers of 3/4 MDF added.
6. Fire clay used for all outlets, and switches to seal the hole.
7. Automatic door closers on both entry doors.
8. Automatic door seals on both entry doors.
9. Door seals for the area around the doors.
10. 1950 Art Deco glass door handles (inside HT one is modified with Blue LEDs, and frosted finish).


Room Finish:

1. All of the walls will have Blue or Black GOM covered panels (as will the ceiling), but only the ones listed will have any acoustic materials added to them. 
2. The stage is covered with Home Depot black carpet, and the soffits are covered with JoAnnes Black Triple Velvet (after the complete room was painted flat black).
3. Floor has Lowes Plum colored Carpet with premium pad.


Equipment:

Front stage...
1. JBL 2360A horns with EV DH1a drivers for the front 3 channels.
2. DIY 1/4 Pie Bass Bins.
3. Danley DTS-10 subs (one under the front stage, and the other under the rear seating area).
4. MiniDSPs 2x4s for crossover for the front 3 channels.
5. Topping T chip amps for the front 3 channels (powering the Horns).
6. (2) Yamaha P2500s amps for the bass bins.
7. (1) Yamaha P7000s amp for the subs.
8. Denon 4520 for processing and surround amplification.

Surround...
1. Surround, and rear surround speakers are Klipsch HIP powered by the Denon 4520

Media...
1. DIY Unraid NAS
2. i3NUC for HA PC
3. i3 NUC for Media Server.
4. PS3 for gaming
5. XBox 360 for gaming.

Video...
1. Panasonic AE8000 projector.
2. SeymourAV 195" diagonal scope AT screen.
3. Darbee Darbet Processor.
4. Monoprice Redmere cables.

Miscellaneous...
1. APC UPS for Computers. 
2. APC UPS for Projector.
3. Monster 7000 for power conditioning.
4. Samsung Galaxy Note for control via CQC HA Software.
5. Monoprice speaker wire.

Lighting...
1. Blue LED rope lighting for the soffits, stairs, and entry hallway.
2. LED spot lights in soffits for entey and exit lighting.

I think that pretty much covers it. :T


----------



## eclipse911t

Awesome. Thanks so much. 

The treatment is extremely similar to my room and I've been very pleased with the results. 

Love it.


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterdau we got almost every frame made for the panels, and corner bass traps completed. All we have left is about 6 panels that need GOM (these are cosmetic only, no absorbing), stuff the remaining soffits with R60, make the rest of the ceiling GOM covered panels (cosmetic), and finish the hallway panels (which will be completed once the HVAC people are done). All of the acoustic panels are done! We had 4 extra bales left of R60 so I put them behind the screen still wrapped in the plastic... They are sitting on the floor behind the screen and come up to a little above the bass bins. We put them against the rear wall in between the bass bins. I ran Audyssey again, and surprise, surprise... It sounded different again! Now you are probably wondering why I was surprised... All the bales of R60 were already in the room, they just were behind the back row of seating. I never expected another veil to be removed from the music, as I though it couldn't get any better.


----------



## NBPk402

Once of our friends took some pics for me tonight of the HT so far...







[/URL][/IMG]


----------



## chrapladm

Wow. Great pics. I forgot how big your HT room was. 

Looks great so far :T And that screen is amazing.


----------



## NBPk402

Thanks, I am very pleased with the way everything has turned out so far... I am very pleased with what a 2 car garage can be when it is converted to a HT.


----------



## Prof.

Some pics at last!..That is looking very nice..:T
The screen looks huge!! That should be very immersive viewing..


----------



## NBPk402

Prof. said:


> Some pics at last!..That is looking very nice..:T
> The screen looks huge!! That should be very immersive viewing..


It is very immersive. Preference is usually to sit in the front row unless you want to feel the bass then you sit in the 2nd row. :T


----------



## dougc

Looks great Ron!!!


----------



## NBPk402

dougc said:


> Looks great Ron!!!


Thanks Doug! :T


----------



## willis7469

Nice Ron. Very inspiring. I've been following this build for awhile. I enjoy when you describe how your room treatments change the presentation. I'd love to take it for a spin! When I start looking at retirement, I hope I see something like this.


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> Nice Ron. Very inspiring. I've been following this build for awhile. I enjoy when you describe how your room treatments change the presentation. I'd love to take it for a spin! When I start looking at retirement, I hope I see something like this.


Thanks... You will get something that makes you happy when you are ready. :T Right now i am trying to get some HA software setup and it is driving me crazy. I am currently fighting to get iRule up and running so i can decide if i want to use it. So far i keep buying modules and it keeps asking me to buy more modules. I submitted to their tech support to get this resolved as there is no option to buy the software. I wish they had a trial that you could get everything up and running to really test their product as it looks like it could be just what i nee., but so far...:crying::rant:


----------



## NBPk402

I finally got iRule to connect with my tablet... Now to get it setup. If anyone is familiar with iRule, and can render assistance please chime in as I would like this to work. My goals are to control my Denon 4520ci AVR (switch sources, adjust volume, power on and off, and maybe switch surround to direct, and back to surround mode), Insteon lighting control through ISY994i (on, off, dim, brighten, scenes), Hue lighting through bridge, Panasonic ae8000 via serial to global Cache QC-100 (still need to set it up), I only need power, and source (mainly on and off as source is only using HDMI2).


----------



## NBPk402

Today while I was working on iRule, my friend was laying the Arizona Flagstone for the pond entry to the HT entry. These are some night pics from my cell phone with my LED spots changing colors as I take them. I will get some day time pics in the next day or two.

As you walk into the pond area...


To the right of the Pond Entry...


At the end of the first pic looking to the left is the HT entry door #1...


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Really hard to say without knowing exactly what the plastic is. Suspect it's starting to roll off in the 4-500Hz range.


Question: I have about 8 more Cosmetic panels to put on the ceiling that will be wrapped in GOM... Should they be wrapped in plastic first to stop the absorption even though there will be no Absorption material behind them? I am asking this because i don't want any more mids to highs absorbed. :T


----------



## NBPk402

New addition to the family... Bacon


----------



## willis7469

Handsome little feller! My oldest son has assumed the nickname "bacon". Can't go wrong with bacon.


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> Handsome little feller! My oldest son has assumed the nickname "bacon". Can't go wrong with bacon.


We are hoping he brings home the bacon when he starts competing. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Progress from yesterday on getting the flagstone laid...
HT entrance pics (pond area).

Looking from the HT to the pond entrance.


Looking from the HT entrance to the Skimmer.


Entrance to the HT.


----------



## Prof.

ellisr63 said:


> New addition to the family... Bacon


Cute dog..What breed is that?


----------



## NBPk402

Prof. said:


> Cute dog..What breed is that?


Australian Shepard... We got lucky and ended up with the pick of the litter. Mom and pop are Champion Show dogs too. :T


----------



## Prof.

A very nice breed!..:T


----------



## NBPk402

Prof. said:


> A very nice breed!..:T


Yes it is... We have 2 Border Collies that compete, but my wife really likes the temperment of the Aussies better as they are not so high strung (or at least the ones in the past from the breeder were not).


----------



## Prof.

I've had every type of large dog breed here including German Shepherds..but never an Australian Shepherd..
I hear of them from time to time, how nice they are but it seems that very few people have them, which is quite weird!!


----------



## NBPk402

We watched the first Bourne movie last night. This was the first time since about July... Man did it ever sound different since then! It is amazing how much acoustic treatments change the sound.


----------



## bpape

:yes::TT


----------



## Sonnie

Nice work Ron... first time I have had a chance to really look at this thread since I have been working so much over the last year. Lookin' good! :T


----------



## NBPk402

Thanks, Sonnie! :T


----------



## NBPk402

Today's update...
We have the entrance to the pond almost done. The next part is to get the Ipe railing completed. Once that is done the HT will get it's finishing touches, and then we will finish off the pond area with Ipe decking for the remaining flooring, and bridge.


----------



## chrapladm

How will the moisture be in this room?

is this more like a Koi pond or other?

Just curious how everything works is all. Always thought about having a hall way to the HT room that was a hallway "river/creek." Then there would large open books for the walk way. Of coarse my ideas FAR exceed my savings account.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> How will the moisture be in this room?
> 
> is this more like a Koi pond or other?
> 
> Just curious how everything works is all. Always thought about having a hall way to the HT room that was a hallway "river/creek." Then there would large open books for the walk way. Of coarse my ideas FAR exceed my savings account.


It is a 7400 gallon Koi pond... Moisture does not seem to be a problem as we have windows that open, and will be installing fans to exchange the air.


----------



## chrapladm

Ah nice. What Koi fish do you have now? 

Or do you not have any yet?

I have a few friends that have collected some very rare ones over the years. Beautiful fish


----------



## NBPk402

Just found this group on Youtube, and they recording sounds great! 



 They have quite a few others and IMO deserve a listen.


----------



## NBPk402

I have recently noticed that my NAS appears to be getting sluggish... Mainly when we have 2 sources running. I decided it was time to upgrade the Intel Atom. I decided to go with the following:

CPU
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J56YSLM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Motherboard
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K8HNGYW/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Ram
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006EWUO22/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I should have the parts by Friday and up and running soon afterwards. :T:T


----------



## eclipse911t

Well that'll certainly perform much better than an Atom! But that's the name of the thread, "Go big or go home."

Good choice. Probably overkill for a NAS, but nice hardware none the less.


----------



## NBPk402

eclipse911t said:


> Well that'll certainly perform much better than an Atom! But that's the name of the thread, "Go big or go home."
> 
> Good choice. Probably overkill for a NAS, but nice hardware none the less.


What I am hoping is that I can run 2 1080p streams directly from the NAS with either XBMC or Plex installed on the NAS.


----------



## eclipse911t

I've been using Plex for a couple years and am very pleased with it. Probably the best freeware I've ever used. 

We use a Roku, Fire TV, Chromecast and some mobile devices for playback. It's really great.


----------



## Owen Bartley

Hey Ron, I was just looking back through the thread, and your pics made me wonder about your screen size / viewing distance. It's hard to tell in the pics, and after a quick search I didn't see it mentioned. I think the screen is 195" in wide format. How far away is that first row? Does it ever feel too close? My eventual room will require a front row that will be very... let's call it "cinematic" in order to get 2 rows in, and I just wanted to get your thoughts on your setup.


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> Hey Ron, I was just looking back through the thread, and your pics made me wonder about your screen size / viewing distance. It's hard to tell in the pics, and after a quick search I didn't see it mentioned. I think the screen is 195" in wide format. How far away is that first row? Does it ever feel too close? My eventual room will require a front row that will be very... let's call it "cinematic" in order to get 2 rows in, and I just wanted to get your thoughts on your setup.


Hi Owen, The screen is a 195" diagonal scope screen, and the front row is 12' with the 2nd row is about 16' from the screen. Normally when we go to a theater we sit in the middle of the theater, and our seating works well with our distances, as a matter of fact most of our friends prefer the front row for watching movies. I get zero eyestrain with this setup. When we had the BenQ w1700 with a 134" screen and sat 12' from the screen we had eyestrain... I think the reason for less eyestrain is that the screen is not as bright as the BenQ was on a 134" screen. Our BenQ measured 21fl in eco mode... Our current setup is less, but I have not measured it. The picture is fine, but down the road when I upgrade I will look for a projector with 3-4k in lumens to see if we can get it to above 16fl. I do not know if we will then get eyestrain again or not though.


----------



## NBPk402

Last night I re-watched Fifth Element (BR), and the audio was far different from what I recall when I watched it on DVD. This time I could very distinctively hear everything from the voices, background sounds to the music. It was like in the past the quiet area were quiet but now it is like their is a black hole of sound. At the end of the movie when they are in the canister... I was able to hear the part of the background music that sounded like bells being played (not sure how to describe the sound), I could hear each individual note floating in the background on top of my stage with the rest of the vocals and music at their proper locations. In the past the background music blended in with everything else nothing special at all.

Call me crazy, but that is what I heard last night, and my friends have all commented about this (Black hole type of sound) too. It is what makes my setup sound so awesome IMO.


----------



## chrapladm

Sounds like these are only sounding better and better now. You will finally be able to hear what the sound engineer intended. What you describe sounds awesome.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Sounds like these are only sounding better and better now. You will finally be able to hear what the sound engineer intended. What you describe sounds awesome.


I still have some more fabric panels (no Roxul in them) to make... I hope it doesn't effect the sound, and reverse some of my progress on the room sound. :T


----------



## NBPk402

A friend in another forum suggested i try out the Roger Waters CD (Amused to death) which was recorded in Q Sound. I just got it ripped to the HDD, and sat down in the 2nd row to listen to it...........................................................................


UNBELIEVABLE!!!! I could hear a bobcat to my right with dogs barking in my driveway (about 20' in front of me), people talking about 2' in front and to my left about 8' away. I have never heard anything like this coming from 2 channels. I had to stop listening after the first song to gather my thoughts! 

I highly suggest anyone who likes Pink Floyd music to give this a listen. :T :T


----------



## willis7469

Awesome! Great impressions. I'm going to find it now.


----------



## NBPk402

The above comments were in my 2nd row too. :T


----------



## chrapladm

Curios how the Koi pond is progressing?


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Curios how the Koi pond is progressing?


I have been lazy lately (no surprise here )... Which means no progress since the flagstone has went down. Hopefully we will get the railings up soon. Not sure when I will have the cash to do the Ironwood bridge and decking for the rest though. I also want to remove my 400 gallon undergound settling tank, and replace it with a $4000 RDF. All I need is cash to finish all the projects... The story of my life.


----------



## chrapladm

I hear ya about the cash. At least its still moving forward. I look forward to the Koi progress. Bridge sounds awesome. Sounds like something I may do for my backyard.


----------



## NBPk402

My Asthma is bothering me again and my wife thinks it is from all the new construction smells in the HT... So I decided to look into getting something to remove the odors on a daily basis.

I just ordered these...
1. This hopefully will take care of any odors in the HT. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002JU04VY/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

2. This hopefully will push the aire fast enough through the carbon scrubber. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000RKNCMQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I am planning on installing them on the 8" HVAC return line. The return line is i believe either 25' or 50' of flex hose zig zagged across the ceiling and exiting the HT to our hall closet. I think that I can install the fan in there , and then install the Carbon scrubber on the other end of the fan. If it is too noisey I think that these should work on each side of the fan. http://www.phreshfilter.com/products/phresh-duct-silencers.aspx


----------



## chrapladm

Do you also have a dry environment or no?

My dad added a humidifier or something to add moisture in the air and that felt much better than the dry air.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Do you also have a dry environment or no?
> 
> My dad added a humidifier or something to add moisture in the air and that felt much better than the dry air.


Our humidy is around 60%... Is that considered dry, normal, wet...?


----------



## chrapladm

lol Thats humid. I have never has asthma in my life then when I moved to OZ I suddenly have it. It is about 0% humidity here. 60% would be like a rainforest for me. And I am used to Indiana that has many muggy days of 100% humidity and no rain for days. 

But my asthma gets horrible at certain parts of the year.


----------



## NBPk402

Update: I got the carbon scrubber filter installed today.. Bad news is I was told it would not work very well the way I wanted to do it. I was told it is harder to pull the air 50' than to push it 50' so what I did was mount the fan and filter behind the screen. When it is running full on it is a bit noisy with nothing on, but when I watch something at -20 or higher it is not noticed for the most part. I plugged it into an Insteon out door outlet,` which allows me to turn it on and of remotely. The plan is to turn it on at night after we go to sleep and then have it turn of after 4 hours. Tonight we turned it of while we were at a party and the room was pretty refreshed when we got home... I am thinking after a week of doing this the chemical smells should be pretty much gone.

I went to our hall closet to see what the noise was like, and if you didn't know there was a fan exhausting air into it you would never know... Until you go to close the door! When you close the door you can feel the air pressure fighting you. If I could have done it the way I wanted I think it would have ben dead quiet while running. The fan is a 750cfm unit which is no slouch when pushing the air. It was suggested that I try a Panasonic but it would not have had enough umph to get the job done.


----------



## Savjac

ellisr63 said:


> A friend in another forum suggested i try out the Roger Waters CD (Amused to death) which was recorded in Q Sound. I just got it ripped to the HDD, and sat down in the 2nd row to listen to it...........................................................................
> 
> 
> UNBELIEVABLE!!!! I could hear a bobcat to my right with dogs barking in my driveway (about 20' in front of me), people talking about 2' in front and to my left about 8' away. I have never heard anything like this coming from 2 channels. I had to stop listening after the first song to gather my thoughts!
> 
> I highly suggest anyone who likes Pink Floyd music to give this a listen. :T :T


This is a brilliant disc and one that has lots of sonic surprises. Be well rested when trying to listen to the whole thing at once, you will be drained by the end. When you hear a lady speaking to you almost into your left ear, might be time for a nap :whistling:


----------



## NBPk402

Got some news from my Dr. today.... Appears i am not allergic to anything in the HT.  Bad news is I have become allergic to Wheat, which means i am going to have a major change of diet. At least most of the Beer I like is Wheat free. :T


----------



## TheGimp

Good news, Bad News.

Sorry to hear about the wheat allergy. Lots of processed foods use wheat in them, so lots of label reading.

Truly impressive HT build.


----------



## NBPk402

TheGimp said:


> Good news, Bad News.
> 
> Sorry to hear about the wheat allergy. Lots of processed foods use wheat in them, so lots of label reading.
> 
> Truly impressive HT build.


My wife makes everything from scratch already... We have as little processed food as we can. This morning i tried some Gluton free bread. It wasn't bad but it also wasn't my normal Killer Bread.

At least I am not allergic to anything in the HT. :T Hopefully i will get motivated to finish off the last few panels so the HT will be 100% done (until I go Atmos).


----------



## muzz

Wow, this turned out great, and it sounds like you and your family/friends are really enjoying it!
I have the Roger Waters "In the Flesh" DVD(not BR unfortunately), and that concert was superb IMO.
I've been wanting to start my own build, but things have to happen to get it going....when I peruse through these different builds it helps motivate me to take care of duct moving and the like, so I can get going.

Great Build, Thanks for sharing!


----------



## NBPk402

Tonight I listened to my 5.1 version of Rush - Moving Pictures and it sounded awesome... Which got me to looking for software for extracting my DVDAudio Music discs to the HDD. I found some software, and I ripped it to Flac files (individual per song), and then tested it out to make sure it works... It does and they sound great!
I have about half a dozen DVDs to rip now. Next is to find some software for extracting my SACD music to the HDD. :T


----------



## Peter Loeser

ellisr63 said:


> ...so the HT will be 100% done


IMPOSSIBLE!


----------



## NBPk402

Peter Loeser said:


> IMPOSSIBLE!


LOL


----------



## NBPk402

I have been adding DVD-A discs to my collection over the last few weeks, and i now have a new favorite reference quality demo disc..... Talking Heads - Speaking in Tongues in 5.1 ripped to FLAC. It sounds the best of all the CDs, and 5.1 discs that i have, plus it is the first album in a while that i can just put on and listen to for hours! I had a couple of friends over yesterday (at 2 different times who were both familiar with the album), and they both commented that they had never heard this album sound so good. They also commented that this was the best album they have ever heard on my setup! We were listening at -20 on the Denon, and i brought up the SPL meter on my Android which showed it at 82DB (I have been listening for hours at this level), but it sounded great!


----------



## NBPk402

One of my Recliners failed so it is being returned to Costco. I decided this time to go with a manual recliner that can be attached to the other recliners, and to get them with cupholders. I ordered 4 Coaster Palladium recliners in black, and they should be here Friday or Saturday.


----------



## NBPk402

New seats just arrived! Now we have a nice rear row, and a mixed front row of a couch, and a power recliner. New seats are pretty nice (non-powered). Next thing for the seats will be USB charging hookups on each seat, mount for Tablet (HT control), and a food tray. Still have to finish the panels too.


----------



## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> New seats just arrived! Now we have a nice rear row, and a mixed front row of a couch, and a power recliner. New seats are pretty nice (non-powered). Next thing for the seats will be USB charging hookups on each seat, mount for Tablet (HT control), and a food tray. Still have to finish the panels too.


 PICS!!


----------



## Medi0gre

JBrax said:


> PICS!!


X2 please!!!


----------



## NBPk402

JBrax said:


> PICS!!





Medi0gre said:


> X2 please!!!


Cell phone pic...


----------



## JBrax

Those are very nice looking theater seats. Congrats!


----------



## B- one

How long until you get a matching set up front? They look great and comfy!


----------



## NBPk402

B- one said:


> How long until you get a matching set up front? They look great and comfy!


My wife decided a while back that she wanted new furniture in the Family Room (when I decided to make a dedicated HT, and let her have the living room)...this meant that the furniture she didn't want anymore was relocated to my HT. I am not sure how long it will be before she lets me get a matching set for the front row. 

She is very much budget orientated, and doesn't like getting rid of something that is still working.:T
She was very upset when I decided I wanted a larger screen for the new HT, since she had bought the old screen for the HT. I calmed her down when I told her that I loved her and was very thankful for the gift, but now i wanted to upgrade it one last time (hence the largest screen I could fit in the room .:T


----------



## NBPk402

For the last few days, I have been trying to find a holder that was nice, and would fit my new chairs... The only one i found was the one on the Elite HTs iPad chair (of course it is on a $3k chair  ). I scoured the net and 90% of the ones i found were mad of plastic. So today i decided i want the one off of the Elite HTs seat. I found out that it was a Luxa2 H4... Guess what it is only $16.49! I ordered one and when i get it in I will check out taking it to a local machine shop to have them cut a hole for my cup holder size or I will see if I can attach a cylinder to the bottom of it so it will fit in my cupholder. If anyone has any ideas on how to adapt it please post them up! :T


----------



## NBPk402

I just got done listening to the Mans too Strong (from Brothers in Arms), and I was absolutely shocked as to how deep, and powerful the bass is on the 5.1 version... Since my 2nd row is over the rear sub, my seat was actually transmitting the bass at only -20 on my Denon 4520. I do not recall it ever being so powerful and deep before.


----------



## thrillcat

Did I also see this project on avs? I love this room! And the pond is fantastic!

I did get a chuckle while skimming your thread, seeing posts about a wheat allergy and another about getting rid of all the smells in the theater, wondering if they were related. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

thrillcat said:


> Did I also see this project on avs? I love this room! And the pond is fantastic!
> 
> I did get a chuckle while skimming your thread, seeing posts about a wheat allergy and another about getting rid of all the smells in the theater, wondering if they were related.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yup, it is posted on several forums... The wheat allergy and the smells in the theater are not related. The odors in the theater are all from the new construction/furniture. They were all gone until I got the new seats for the 2nd row...the new furniture odors should be gone soon. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Just won a Crown D75 amp on eBay... I am going to see how it compares to the T chip amps. If it is as good or better I will look for another one, and replace all 3 T chip amps. I hope to also get a MiniDSP DDRC 88A in the next few weeks too. 
Hopefully these mods will make my setup sound even better. If they do I might swap in a Yamaha A1, and sell the Denon 4520... Later this year if Yamaha comes out with a AVP with balanced outputs, Atmos, and DTS-X then I will then upgrade again. Eventually the whole setup will have Pro amps...maybe i will even sell the Klipsch Pro speakers (HIPs), and go to smaller powered Pro speakers for my surrounds, and eventual ceiling speakers.


----------



## NBPk402

Crown D75 arrived today... I am looking at getting one more, and then i will compare them to the T chip amps. Hopefully I will have a new (old) AVP, and the DDRC 88A by then too. :T


----------



## chrapladm

Very jealous. I was wanting a pair of these for a while and just gave up. Would have to convert them also to 220vac. Although I may still end up with some and use them with my 5000watt step down converter.

Anyways looking forward to your opinion on them.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Very jealous. I was wanting a pair of these for a while and just gave up. Would have to convert them also to 220vac. Although I may still end up with some and use them with my 5000watt step down converter.
> 
> Anyways looking forward to your opinion on them.


It was either get a Yamaha 50wpc amp or the Crown... I was able to get the crown for less, and the Crowns are used for recording studios so I figured I would give it a shot. The investment is $100 so if i don't like them I can sell them and get the Yamaha.


----------



## NBPk402

Just won a new addition to the Home Theater...

A black Krell Showcase 7.1. I still need to get another Crown D75 to get the setup up and running along with getting a HDMI switcher/7.1 breakout analog box. Th nex big item will be t Dirac since i will no longer have a room tune. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Just solved the no HDMI problem with the Krell... I ordered the Oppo 105D. Now I can take my 4 HDMI sources and use a switcher which will be hooked up to the Oppo input. The nice thing is I can now sell my Darbee, and hook the Oppo up directly to the projector. Plus I can feed my audio from my 4 sources to the Oppo, and it will send them out via balanced analog, or 7.1 to the Krell. I also ordered the MiniDSP DDRC 88A. All I will need now is the additional amps for the surrounds.


----------



## NBPk402

Just ordered some Blue Jeans Cable for the 7.1 analog out on the Oppo. Hopefully this is not going to turn into a this cable sounds better than this one (hoping the cables sound fine).


----------



## B- one

ellisr63 said:


> Just solved the no HDMI problem with the Krell... I ordered the Oppo 105D. Now I can take my 4 HDMI sources and use a switcher which will be hooked up to the Oppo input. The nice thing is I can now sell my Darbee, and hook the Oppo up directly to the projector. Plus I can feed my audio from my 4 sources to the Oppo, and it will send them out via balanced analog, or 7.1 to the Krell. I also ordered the MiniDSP DDRC 88A. All I will need now is the additional amps for the surrounds.


Your going to love the build quality of the Oppo! Congrats on the new toys!


----------



## NBPk402

B- one said:


> Your going to love the build quality of the Oppo! Congrats on the new toys!


Thanks,

I am also going to try it driving my pro amps without the Krell... If it is better then i will go without a preamp. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I hooked up the Oppo, and my initial observations are strange... I put in my Dire Straits Brothers in Arms disc and it is considerably brighter than it was through my media center (Kodi), even the bass sounds different. I popped in a movie, and the picture looks AWESOME! I will play around with it some more and see what I think...mind you this was through the HDMI. I can't wait to see how it sounds going through the 7.1 analog outputs. I also am very curious how it will sound with the balanced outputs with the Krell.


----------



## NBPk402

Last night a friend of mine, and I listened to the new setup, and we were very surprised as to what a difference it made.

Audio:
Top end is more extended, and more info present then before. Lows are even tighter than before...maybe just as touch less powerful. Dynamics are much better.

Video:
The colors pop more now, Black levels look better, and the picture appeared to be sharper too.

The demo was done through HDMI which means we are not using the DACs from the 105D. We also are not using the built in Darbee yet as I still have my old one. Looks like I will be selling the Darbee, and going to the built in one.


----------



## NBPk402

We decided to return the 105D, and get the 103 (I will keep my Darbee)... I just got it in today and it sounds just like the 105D did. The reason we returned the 105D was:
1: It doesn't look like we will be using analog out on the player so since that is the main reason for getting it I returned it.

We also have a little problem that Wayne, and I are trying to work out with running Dirac and bi-amping... Stay tuned to see what we work out, as this could be very interesting. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I now have the Oppo 103 hooked up to my Krell Showcase 7.1 via the 7.1 analog on the Krell, and the Oppo with BlueJean cables. We did some listening last night, and it sounds almost as good in all aspects as it did with the Denon 4520, and Audyssey. The soundstage is wider, deeper, and the mids have a silky sound to them, plus there is more info on the top end. I am now waiting for the MiniDSP DDRC 88-a to arrive so I can see how it all sounds with an electronically tuned room. I am thinking that I might be able to lower the 12db shelf on the MiniDSP since we have more HF out of the Krell.

The only bad thing about the Krell is it is an ergonomic nightmare in my opinion. It is not user friendly at all... luckily all I want it for is analog in/out with one source (using it for its analog circuitry, and balanced outs).


----------



## NBPk402

As far as what Wayne and I had been planning it doesn't look like it will work form since I am bi-amped.


----------



## NBPk402

A little bit of a dilemma...

3 more amps on the way... I will now have Yamaha P2500S for my horns, and bass bins, and a pair of Yamaha P2075 amps for my surrounds. I Would like to use the P2075 amps for the horn,s and the P2500S for the bass bins, and surrounds but I would have to use one of the P2075 amp channels for a surround channel. The P2075 amps are 50wpch, and the P2500s is 250wpch. I am thinking that the P2075 would be a better match for the horns as they are rated at 50wpch all day long, and the drivers are 112db with 1 watt. The P2075 also is a class A/B amp and might sound better too. 

What should I do? 50 watts should be more than i need for the surrounds as the Klipsch HiPs are 102db with 1 watt...


----------



## NBPk402

Problem is solved... I just ordered another P2500s for the rear surrounds. Luckily none of the speakers need more than 50 wpch on peaks or I would really be sucking some wall power with all these amps! Currently with all the amps on, and listening at -20db we are drawing 1.2 amps until the subs hit. I am anticipating being under 2 amps with all the new amps included in the scenario. The only piece not included in the draw is the Projector.


----------



## NBPk402

One of the amps showed up today...damaged.  Not sure what i am going to do as the am was the last one on eBay, and the other one will be here next week. I will be rack mounting the amps, and this one has the rack handle bent about 45 degrees. 

The amp was only a little over $100 delivered, and is in decent shape other than the rack ear. I am worried that if i go to bend it straight it might break off. If i return it i will have to delay my tune to search for another identical amp. I notified the seller of the problem.

What would you do? Should i ask for a refund? Should I ask for compensation, and try, and get it straightened?


----------



## Talley

How many speakers are you running? I'm pleased to hear you are happy with the showcase. Your results is just as I suspected from what my uncle praises.

Have you ever thought of moving to the krell showcase amp? They can be had for a good price. 1300 for a 5 channel showcase.


----------



## NBPk402

Talley said:


> How many speakers are you running? I'm pleased to hear you are happy with the showcase. Your results is just as I suspected from what my uncle praises.
> 
> Have you ever thought of moving to the krell showcase amp? They can be had for a good price. 1300 for a 5 channel showcase.


Nah... I went this route to sound as good as I can get my system to sound and use very little electricity. I am running a 7.2 setup with the front 3 channels biamped... 10 speakers plus 2 subs. Right now with 3 Pro amps, Krell, Oppo, and (2) i3NUCs. I am only using 1.2 amps. I also believe that once the Dirac is in the picture the amps won't make a difference any more (or at the most be a negligible difference) :T


----------



## moparz10

Ok, here's what I would do, take the lid off,disconnect plugs from faceplate and remove along with the ears,wrap it in a towel and place it in a press or vice and see if it straightens it to your liking,if you scratch it touch it up with some satin black.
Good luck Ellis


----------



## NBPk402

moparz10 said:


> Ok, here's what I would do, take the lid off,disconnect plugs from faceplate and remove along with the ears,wrap it in a towel and place it in a press or vice and see if it straightens it to your liking,if you scratch it touch it up with some satin black.
> Good luck Ellis


Thanks, I will try that :T :T


----------



## moparz10

i would even go a step further and heat it up from the back side,everyone has a plumbing torch in their garage,and try that as well.
depending on what type of metal it is,i only took a quick peak at some interwebb pics.


----------



## Owen Bartley

Ron, if it's only cosmetic, and you're sure the electronics work, I'd ask the seller for some kind of compensation (might or might not get it if it happened in shipping, who knows?). It looks fixable, and I'd try what Jim suggested. I might try without the torch first, but maybe a heat gun... who knows what extreme heat might do to the finish or paint, even from the back.


----------



## moparz10

Owen heat gun is a great idea! good out of the box thinking!


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> Ron, if it's only cosmetic, and you're sure the electronics work, I'd ask the seller for some kind of compensation (might or might not get it if it happened in shipping, who knows?). It looks fixable, and I'd try what Jim suggested. I might try without the torch first, but maybe a heat gun... who knows what extreme heat might do to the finish or paint, even from the back.


Thanks for the info... A friend of mine came over last night, and looked at it, and said it should easily bend back straight with a wood handle inserted in the rack handle. If it doesn't go easily I will try heat. I need to get it straight as it is supporting the amp in the rack. I sent the sender a pic of the damage but i haven't heard back yet...I am hoping i will get a little compensation on the purchase as it is in good condition other than that (I still need to physically install and test it to see if there are other problems though). My P2500s showed up also with bent handles but hey are for the rear support, and can easily be straightened out if i want to use the rear supports (I haven't used the rear supports in the past, and everything was ok). As soon and the other 2 amps and the Dirac show up I will test everything out.

I hope it all goes well as i am anxious to get the setup tuned, and see how the sound has changed...hopefully it will sound even better. :T


----------



## NBPk402

moparz10 said:


> Owen heat gun is a great idea! good out of the box thinking!


+1


----------



## Lumen

ellisr63 said:


> Thanks for the info... A friend of mine came over last night, and looked at it, and said it should easily bend back straight with a wood handle inserted in the rack handle. If it doesn't go easily I will try heat. I need to get it straight as it is supporting the amp in the rack. I sent the sender a pic of the damage but i haven't heard back yet...I am hoping i will get a little compensation on the purchase as it is in good condition other than that (I still need to physically install and test it to see if there are other problems though). My P2500s showed up also with bent handles but hey are for the rear support, and can easily be straightened out if i want to use the rear supports (I haven't used the rear supports in the past, and everything was ok). As soon and the other 2 amps and the Dirac show up I will test everything out. I hope it all goes well as i am anxious to get the setup tuned, and see how the sound has changed...hopefully it will sound even better. :T


Sounds like the only thing not bent out of shape is you! I'm not a metallurgist, but I would like to add that I used to consistently break eyeglass frames until one wise optician taught me to heat the metal before bending. Granted eyeglass frames are much thinner than your faceplate, but it does make sense from a molecular point of view (heat pushes a solid toward its liquid state). So just be careful not to go overboard-- no arc welding torches here, please!

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


----------



## NBPk402

BlueRockinLou said:


> Sounds like the only thing not bent out of shape is you! I'm not a metallurgist, but I would like to add that I used to consistently break eyeglass frames until one wise optician taught me to heat the metal before bending. Granted eyeglass frames are much thinner than your faceplate, but it does make sense from a molecular point of view (heat pushes a solid toward its liquid state). So just be careful not to go overboard-- no arc welding torches here, please!
> 
> Sent from my iPad using HTShack


I am currently waiting to see what the seller wants to do...If he gives me some amount of a refund I will keep the amp, and bend it straight, but I am not going to touch it until I know what he wants to do. It was not an expensive amp so I won't get much of a break if any, but I am def disappointed that it arrived with a bent ear. Hopefully we can work out something that gets me a better deal, and that I can get it straight without breaking it. :T:T

I have 2 more amps coming next week...hopefully none of them will be damaged.


----------



## Lumen

Yes, hopefully. Nothing like having the joy of "presents in the mail" be squashed by damaged goods.


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday my neighbor came over and helped me redo the rack with the new equipment (still have 2 amps on the way).



For some reason, after setting up the Krell, and the Oppo... I can no longer get sound from my DTS-HD movies when playing them from my media server (fed from the NAS), but the same movies will play fine with the Oppo being fed from the NAS. The media server has played all my music, and movies up until today.


----------



## NBPk402

Note to self...Next time double check the outputs on the MiniDSPs so the correct wires go to the correct amps.
3 EV DH1A drivers are now damaged as they were not up to taking a 60hz-500hz test signal from the Dirac. 2 new ones on the way, and possibly a 3rd one.  :sad::sad:


----------



## NBPk402

I just ordered 3 of the MiniDSP in a box 2x4 balanced crossovers...so now I can run balanced all the way. I did this because I felt I was not matching gain properly going balanced to unbalanced to balanced. Another advantage is the balanced version will have 2.0v instead of .9v. First pair of new drivers will be in mid next week, and the tune will be started again. 

I am thinking since my crossovers were already setup... I should be able to just copy the settings to the new crossovers, and then run the tone in the DDRC-88A to set the levels for the horns at 75db (bass bins turned off). Once i have that done then turn the horn amps off and set the levels on the bass bins to 75db. Once this has been completed turn on both amps and lower the volume level for the LCR in the DDRC88A to give me 75db of the sombo. 

Does this sound right?


----------



## NBPk402

Today i played around with the levels of the amp for the horns, and i think I have it pretty good now. The only thing that concerns me is the center channel response is considerably different than the left and right. There is as much as 10db more signal on the horns, and some 5db or so huge bumps on the bass bins. Strange because the center channel horn is much older than the left and right ones and where the left and right dip down over the mids to high the center does almost the same but goes up. Could it be phase?


Just got the MiniDSP 2x4 (balanced) in. I have loaded the calibrations in for my front 3 channels...I will load the cal for the subs after the other 2 are hooked up, verified correct, and running properly. Still need to get the wires made for the Dirac to the MiniDSP 2x4s, and from the 2x4s to the amps.


----------



## NBPk402

Picking up a Yamaha XM6150 amp for my front 3 channels biamped. This will allow me to sell 3 amps, and clear up some rack space. The amp will be 6x100 (8ohm) which I believe will be enough for even my bass bins. That means I will keep 2 of the P2500S amps, and the P7000s unless I can find another XM6150 be all set for Atmos down the road.


----------



## prerich

ellisr63 said:


> Picking up a Yamaha XM6150 amp for my front 3 channels biamped. This will allow me to sell 3 amps, and clear up some rack space. The amp will be 6x100 (8ohm) which I believe will be enough for even my bass bins. That means I will keep 2 of the P2500S amps, and the P7000s unless I can find another XM6150 be all set for Atmos down the road.


NO....WAY!!!!!! A XM6150!!!! Wow!!!! That's the same amp that I used to have before my system got fried about 4 years ago!!!!!! That was a nice amp!!!! I loved it!!!! Never drove it to clipping - even playing Master and Commander at pretty loud volume with Snell speakers! 

Which amps are you thinking about selling?


----------



## NBPk402

What caused your system to get fried?
I am going to sell some of my Yamaha P2500S amps as I don't need 250wpch.


----------



## NBPk402

Consolidating amps in my rack as I am really cramped there right now. 

New system layout will be:

Krell Showcase 7.1
Lexicon NT512 5 channel amp for the Horns, and maybe 2 of the Atmos channels. 120wpc
Sherbourn 5/1500 5 channel amp for the bass bins, and the surrounds. 200wpc
Yamaha P7000s for the subs 750wpc
Yamaha XM4080 for Atmos channels 80wpc
(3) MiniDSP 2x4 balanced
MiniDSP DDRC-88A
JBL Horns, and 1/4 pie bass bins
JBL 8340A for the surrounds, and eventually for the Atmos channels
Oppo 103
Darbee Darcet 5000


Now I will be selling:
(4) Klipsch HIPs
(2) SR70 speakers (Klipsch Heresy clones)
(1) Denon 4520ci
(1) T chip amp
(4) Yamaha P2500s amps

System will now be complete until I locate 4 more 8340A speakers, and find the Atmos preamp i want (most likely some time next year. Time to get it hooked up, and tuned. Then finish off the rest of the panels.:T


----------



## prerich

Florida lightning!!!! I almost got hit by that bolt!!!! I was getting in my vehicle and BAM!!!! All i saw was a bright yellow-white light and sparks!!!!! I was so scared!!!! I got in the car (my wife was already in) and I was just shaking)! That day I lost my projector, my receiver, the XM6150, and I lost one of my SW-380 subwoofers. I kept the subs and just turned them both into passives.


----------



## NBPk402

prerich said:


> Florida lightning!!!! I almost got hit by that bolt!!!! I was getting in my vehicle and BAM!!!! All i saw was a bright yellow-white light and sparks!!!!! I was so scared!!!! I got in the car (my wife was already in) and I was just shaking)! That day I lost my projector, my receiver, the XM6150, and I lost one of my SW-380 subwoofers. I kept the subs and just turned them both into passives.


The closest I have ever been was when lightning struck my neighbors house across the street.


----------



## NBPk402

Just picked up the Lexicon, and the Sherbourn (both of which are in excellent condition). We will be pulling out 5 Yamaha Pro amps from the rack on Sunday and replacing them with the new amps. Hopefully the 4 channel amp will arrive early next week (Atmos channel amp). My JBLs for the surrounds should be in early next week too. I can't wait to get the new equipment in place and tuned. The new lamps for the projector should be arriving today too. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I received 2 of my JBL 8340A speakers, and mounts Saturday, and will be mounting them today.  Since the new mounting position will be higher on the wall I will be ordering some more speaker cable for my side surrounds.


Question: My MLP is not in the center of the room, but aligned to the center of the screen (same as my front speakers)... My left wall is 9' away, and my right wall is 7 1/2' away. The speakers are angle mounted (20 degree), so if both speakers are mounted on the wall at the same height they will not intersect at the same point... What should I do?

If I mount one higher than the other it won't look right, but I could conceal them behind some panels.

If I mount them on the wall at the same height which speaker should I try to align up with the MLP?


----------



## willis7469

I'm presuming the mounts are not angle adjustable?


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> I'm presuming the mounts are not angle adjustable?


Nope...they are set at 20 degrees. The only other thing I can think of is to have a pair of mounts made to make it parallel to the walls. I need to do this down the road for my Atmos speakers too.


----------



## willis7469

I was imagining a wedge shaped shim between the wall and mount at whatever angle would point your speaker correctly. I think a table saw jig would make that simple. Maybe?


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> I was imagining a wedge shaped shim between the wall and mount at whatever angle would point your speaker correctly. I think a table saw jig would make that simple. Maybe?


I have an idea...

Here is the mount... http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/2516.pdf

What i am thinking is to just use the side that mounts to the speaker (which will also place the speaker closer to the wall, which is a plus), and then bend the piece with the screw holes to give me the right angle. Then i can make a wedge (like you suggested) for the bottom support. By going this way i can also use the same mounts for my ceiling mounts for Atmos.


----------



## NBPk402

Just put the new lamp in the projector... Man is it brighter, and sharper then it was. Just goes to show that as it ages we don't notice it getting dimmer, and softer.


----------



## willis7469

ellisr63 said:


> I have an idea... Here is the mount... http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachments/2516.pdf What i am thinking is to just use the side that mounts to the speaker (which will also place the speaker closer to the wall, which is a plus), and then bend the piece with the screw holes to give me the right angle. Then i can make a wedge (like you suggested) for the bottom support. By going this way i can also use the same mounts for my ceiling mounts for Atmos.


 I think that would be successful. Good thinkin!


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> I think that would be successful. Good thinkin!


On further thought... I am thinking a hinge attached to the mounting bracket would also allow me to adjust to the exact angle required. :T:T


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday, we got the new amps (Lexicon, and Sherbourne) wired into the system, and did a couple of tunes...

The audio is much cleaner in the vocal area, and we have an abundance of high frequencies now too. One problem i have is i am getting hiss from the horns when there is no music or video playing. I tried removing the 12db high shelf, and cutting the output down on the MiniDSP 2x4, but it is still there. I have zero ground loops this time. :T :T

Another issue is that i am getting more ambience then before...not sure if it is always supposed to be there or if it is a settings issue.

With Audyssey you could sit in the front or 2nd row, and it was excellent...now in the 2nd row the surrounds are too overpowering. In the front row it is much more immersive than it was with Audyssey, and with stereo tracks i found myself checking to make sure the surrounds were not on. The soundstage is wider than it was before, and while in the 1st row it sounds like you are in the front row of a club listening to music. In the 2nd row it sounds like you are in the middle of a club.

Today I am going to try different combos to see if:
1: I can eliminate the hiss
2: Reduce the ambience just a tad to make it sound right


----------



## NBPk402

I am working with jtalden to get my front 3 channels working properly again in bi-amp. We had to redo the tune when the horn drivers were swapped out (thought they were blown, but it turned out only one was). We now have the original drivers in (with a BNIB Old Stock diaphragm for the center). I have been communicating with MiniDSP on the hiss, and it appears there are a few ways to solve it... change the jumpers inDDRC-88A to 4v, and then rewire as unbalanced, and or use attenuators. I have the jumpers set to 4v so now I am going to try the attenuators first as it is the simplest way to work around it.

I also have the first pair of speakers on the way for Atmos. I am going with the JBL 8320 for the ceiling. I am going this way since I like the 8340A speakers (which are 1/2 the weight of the Klipsch HIPs) we are using for our side surrounds, and they are half of the weight of the JBL 8340A. I figure I would rather have a 11lb speaker over my head than a 19lb speaker...although I don't want either falling on me or someone else. In addition the 11lb is less likely to fall vs the 19lb (IMO). For the time being the speakers for the ceiling will just be hung in the appropriate positions on the ceiling, hooked up to the power amp, and then just wait until I find the Atmos AVP I want (next year). I am still looking for one more pair of 8320, and another pair of 8340As for the setup. Hopefully I will have the hiss gone and the room tuned by this weekend. Time to start watching movies on the Big Screen, and listening to music again!

Meanwhile I am working on selling the (4) Klipsch HIPs, (2) SR70s, (4) Yamaha P2500s amps, (2) HDHomerun tuners, and (2)Topping T-chip amps.


----------



## NBPk402

Did a little playing around with the minidsp 2x4 for the DTS-10s, and tuned the room with the Dirac DDRC-88A. I had to go in and tell the Dirac not to boost the Bass Bins below 80hz, and tell it not to boost the DTS-10s above 80hz. I ended up with this on the subs... How does that look?


----------



## NBPk402

Left and right main...



Center channel...



Subs...


JBL 8340A side surrounds...


Klipsch HIPs (rear surrounds until I get more JBLs)...


Whatcha think?


----------



## NBPk402

Well I have given up on the balanced version of the MiniDSP 2x4, and it is being returned. I am not going to go into what happened other than to say with 112db horns it is not usable (too much background hiss). The only problem with the MiniDSP balanced is the hiss, and since it is background level hiss it doesn't go up with the volume. I would say that anyone that has speakers that are around 90db efficiency will most likely not have a problem. For me I only have a 100 wpch amp and it would be a shame to have it pushing the amp just to get it up to reference level (since the level would have to be attenuated by at least 15db, maybe more) when it should only take way less than 1 watt to hit reference levels. I just ordered a Xilica XP-4080 which will do all 3 channels in one unit plus my Danley subs. Xilica is also the Company that makes them for Danley. 

Hopefully next week will be a great week.


----------



## chrapladm

Glad to see your making progress. I have never been a very happy camper with the Mini. Then I heard about the horn guys hating the hiss from the Mini and that kept me from buying anymore. I still plan on building some more horns so I will be going else where. I look forward to your thoughts on the Xilica.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Glad to see your making progress. I have never been a very happy camper with the Mini. Then I heard about the horn guys hating the hiss from the Mini and that kept me from buying anymore. I still plan on building some more horns so I will be going else where. I look forward to your thoughts on the Xilica.


Hopefully I will have it Saturday... if so I should have info about how it sounds by Monday. I am now a reviewer so it won't be much, but I will do my best to describe how it works. I will only be using it for basic crossover, delays, gain adjustment and high shelf. It is quite a bit more than the minis were (3), but I got it for a real good price as it was the dealers last one, and he wanted to order more stock.


----------



## chrapladm

Well any info will be much appreciated. Especially since it is going on a high sensitivity horn setup. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I was told the processor should be here today...hopefully Monoprice will have my cables here on Saturday (I selected Saturday delivery).


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Well any info will be much appreciated. Especially since it is going on a high sensitivity horn setup. :T


I just got the XP-4080. 

I have been browsing for more reviews of it, and i found this... I knew that Danley used it, but I didn't know that Aeris also used it, plus it is used in recording studios. Here is a link to the review... http://www.stereomojo.com/Legacy Aeris Speaker Review/LegacyAerisSpeakerreview.htm 

I will still post my own comments once I get the 4 input cables dressed for the Dirac, and the rest of my XLR cables will be here Saturday.


----------



## NBPk402

Well I got it all setup... It was not as easy as I thought it would be as there is a bit of a learning curve to set this unit up. Once I got it figured out it is pretty easy to do. What makes it difficult is the manual doesn't have a flow chart so you can work your way down to what you need. What it does is tell you the options for each item and it ends there. There are a lot of things I could still do with this unit, but I have no idea what they do or when I would use them. It seems to be very transparent sounding (doesn't appear to add or detract from anything). I am very pleased with the way it just plain works. 

One thing I still need to do is get the DTS-10s dialed in. All I did with the crossover was cross them over at 100hz, and then tell my Oppo to cross them over at 80Hz (I don't know what db slope the Oppo is using). I am not sure if this is right or not but I did it this way because the Oppo is upline from the crossover and is my bass management. Right now the crossover is not boosting the bass at all, and the Dirac is boosting part of it, and cutting other parts. This has left me with a little more upper bass than I am used to. I would prefer it to go a little deeper than it is now. What I noticed in the Dirac is it won't let me drag the line to lower than 20Hz.

Hopefully this next weekend I can get the bass dialed in like I want.

One thing that the whole Dirac, Xilica setup has made me realize is that the Lexicon NT-512, and Sherbourn 5/1500 are not what I was really looking for. My whole premise on this setup was to save electricity while being able to hit reference levels with great sound. What I have right now is great sound that is costing me 2amps more than the old setup with the Yamaha Pro Amps.  I also discovered that I really need to have gain controls on the horns. What I am going to do is look for a 3 channel amp that is compact, has balanced inputs, gain controls, efficient, great build quality, and affordable. One option I have thought about is to get a 11 channel balanced input amp, and then just get a 50wpc 3 channel amp. I do have a 80wpc Yamaha Pro amp that I might just try out (4 channel which means i would not be using one channel), but there is one thing I don't like about this amp... Its fans run constantly (unlike my other Yamaha Pro amps which were dead silent).


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday, and today have not been good days. Yesterday i went to boot up my NAS after having it off for 3 days...go into my Openelec/Kodi media player, and the NAS can only see the USB drive.  I figured my USB drive was failing so I purchased another one...still can't see it. I had other things to do today, and now I have to spend it just getting the NAS to work. It appears the USB drive was not bad to start with. Must be a hardware problem.


----------



## NBPk402

Still no love... I can access the UnRAID NAS via the web GUI (have it doing a parity check now), but the UNRAID Main Menu won't load, although all the other menus load. I hope when the parity check is completed I can get the NAS, and Media Server to work together again.


----------



## NBPk402

Dolby Atmos/DTS-X will be sooner than I had anticipated... I should have my new AVP in September/October (waiting for it's release). If I get the one I am planning on it will have HDMI 2.2, and HDCP 2.2, and HDR support. The new AVP should last me for many years to come. I also might have a Yamaha MX-5000 power amp soon to replace the Lexicon, and Sherbourn amps. The next upgrade after this will be a 3 channel low power amp for the horns... I am thinking of a Balanced GainClone amp with gain controls on it to allow the horn gain to be turned down (this is supposedly the preferred method over lowering the gain in the crossover.


----------



## NBPk402

ellisr63 said:


> Still no love... I can access the UnRAID NAS via the web GUI (have it doing a parity check now), but the UNRAID Main Menu won't load, although all the other menus load. I hope when the parity check is completed I can get the NAS, and Media Server to work together again.


After 4 days of fighting the setup... I finally got the UnRAID NAS back up and running in my setup along with 2 OpenElec/Kodi Media Servers. Apparently the SSD died or was very close to dying in one of my media servers. I installed Kodi on the USB stick in the end and it finally worked. What was getting me confused was every time i would setup the USB stick for an install it would always ask for another drive to install it on...So I finally gave it another USB stick to install to and it worked. So apparently since i installed this a couple of years ago (before i got the SSDs, I must have installed it with 2 USB sticks (one with the install, and the other to install to).

Now i can finally get back to watching movies, TV Shows, and listening to music again. :bigsmile:

We will have at least a few weeks before i get a new 11 channel amp for the setup, but that shouldn't cause any problems (I hope i didn't just jinx it).

Meanwhile I need to figure out where to install a pair of JBL 8320 speakers for Atmos. Can you run just 2 or do I need to run 4? I am still looking for a 2nd pair for Atmos, and a pair of 8340As for my rear surrounds.:T:T


----------



## NBPk402

Just snagged a new amp... I will now have the Yamaha MXA-5000 amp which will replace my Lexicon NT-512, my Sherbourn 5/1500, and my Yamaha XM-4080 pro amp. This will clean up the rack even more plus cut my A/C bill down considerably. I am hoping the Yamaha sounds as good as the Lexicon did. Even if it doesn't i will be sticking with the Yamaha for a long time.


----------



## NBPk402

It's official... no more Klipsch speakers in the setup. I really liked the Klipsch, but I like the fact that now I have all the same brand, plus the surrounds, and Atmos speakers are from 1/4 to 1/2 the weight of the Klipsch speakers. This means i will have less weight on our double walls, and hanging from our double drywall ceiling too.

Now i just need to get the last pair of JBL 8320s for the ceiling, and the new AVP to complete the setup. This should hold me over until I decide to upgrade the Projector in a year or 2. :T


----------



## willis7469

I also like having speakers from the same line. Some people say meh, whatever, it doesn't matter that much. That could be true to a point, but I've had/heard some Frankensteined setups, and they usually sound "off" at best. Kinda like being less than the sum of its parts. Lol
Btw, it's always fun to read your posts in this thread. Very detailed and interesting. Thx.


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> I also like having speakers from the same line. Some people say meh, whatever, it doesn't matter that much. That could be true to a point, but I've had/heard some Frankensteined setups, and they usually sound "off" at best. Kinda like being less than the sum of its parts. Lol
> Btw, it's always fun to read your posts in this thread. Very detailed and interesting. Thx.


Thanks, 

The latest upgrades were true to my bargain hunting build.

I picked up the following brand new...
(4) JBL 8340A speakers (MSRP $1100 a pair)
(2) JBL 8320 speakers (MSRP $500 a pair)

Total cost $1200

Yamaha MX-A5000 3 months old with original receipt from Authorized Yamaha Dealer (MSRP $2900 new)

Price $1600

So $2800 for $5700 in equipment. :T

Now to sell my Yamaha XM 4080, Lexicon NT-512, Sherbourn 5/1500, and 2 pair of Klipsch HIPs (sold...waiting for pickup). If I get my asking prices I will break even on the new pieces.. :T


----------



## NBPk402

I watched Divergent with a friend the other night, and both of us noticed the improvements in sound since the Dirac was put into place. I noticed that when everyone was in the auditorium scene... I could hear the seat springs squeak. My friend noticed that he could now clearly hear the people when they were whispering too.

I watched Bourne Supremacy, and all kinds of little details were now revealed. I am very glad I made the jump from Audyssey to Dirac...def worth every penny I spent to change over the setup. Later this week i will be swapping out the last Klipsch pair with a new pair of 8340As, and a new 11 channel Yamaha amp... We will see if there is any difference in the sound.


----------



## chrapladm

Glad to see you enjoying the fruits of your labor I have always preached that I felt Dirac was better than Audyssey and now its nice to see someone else has a liking for it also.

Also hope this new Yamaha amps works out well.


----------



## NBPk402

Thanks, I hope the new amp works out too. I also have pre-ordered the new Yamaha CX-A5100 preamp which should be arriving late September to mid October. Hopefully I will like Atmos.


----------



## NBPk402

Fedex showed up tonight with the new Yamaha MX-5000 amp. We got the old amps pulled out, and the new amp in place. Tomorrow I will wire it all up (after I figure out how I want to wire all the channels).:T


----------



## Owen Bartley

That's exciting Ron! Big changes in your room. So you have found Dirac to make a noticeable difference in listening? I had always thought it looked cool, but wasn't really planning to try it because it seemed like too much work for what might amount to an incremental improvement. It will be interesting to see what Dirac does with DTS:X and Atmos material.


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> That's exciting Ron! Big changes in your room. So you have found Dirac to make a noticeable difference in listening? I had always thought it looked cool, but wasn't really planning to try it because it seemed like too much work for what might amount to an incremental improvement. It will be interesting to see what Dirac does with DTS:X and Atmos material.


Hi Owen. I have found the difference was much clearer dialog, minute sounds are now heard, and my top end is more extended than it was with Audyssey. What I need to do is work on the bass a bit now as it is not as tight, revealing, or powerful as it was with Audyssey. In general the sound is better than it ever was before.:T


----------



## NBPk402

Today I got the new amp installed... So far it is better in almost every way. I have a little hiss, but you have to get on the stage to even hear it.  The only bad thing I currently am hearing is interference noise from the i3NUCs. I have always had it but it seems to be a little louder now. I am going to have to play around with the wiring, and location of the NUCs to eliminate it. The highs sound nice and clear with the midrange having all the magic it has had in the past and a touch more. The bass is more pronounced than it has been since we removed the Denon. At this point it is nice and tight, deep, and very revealing. I didn't think I was going to need to run the room tune again, but I will tomorrow just to see how it changes the sound.

I am very pleased with the swap, plus the electricity consumption dropped to lower than it was with the Denon/Yamaha Pro amps which was 1/2 what it was with the Lexicon/Sherbourn setup. I have to say the Yamaha has a much better bottom end than the Sherbourn by far. The bottom end is tighter, deeper, and louder than the Sherbourn was. Listening at the same approximate levels we have listened in the past to the Lexicon/Sherbourn setup the Yamaha will shake the walls with bass where the Sherbourn wouldn't. When people say certain amps have a deeper, tighter bass...I have to agree it can happen.


----------



## NBPk402

I added a new media player today to the setup, and it works great and is super small. I purchased this one... SolidRun CuBoxTV Quad Core 1ghz XMBC Media Center 

I have tried playing a few movies (1080P), and so far it works much better than my Celeron NUC for less than a 3rd of the price. It comes with Kodi preinstalled so i didn't have to buy memory, USB stick or a SSD which makes it a much better deal.


----------



## NBPk402

The only noise I have to deal with now is coming from my i3NUCs. If they are off or I select the Oppo, my speakers are dead silent. Has anyone else had this problem?


My last pair of JBL 8340As were supposed to be in today but the truck arrived late.  New delivery is tomorrow. I can't wait to get them in place and run the Dirac again. I have moved my front row forward about 1' (hopefully it will help the bass null in the front row). When I get the whole room finished I am thinking of making the rear platform come out all the way to the front row, and then have the steps only on the sides of the front row. This will allow my curved 2nd row to be at least 3' from the rear wall. Currently the 2nd row is the best row if you want to feel the bass, and the front row is for people that don't want to hear the bass. When we listen to music I still prefer the 2nd row if there is any deep bass in the recording. Maybe down the road I might get some bass shakers for the front row....


----------



## Owen Bartley

ellisr63 said:


> Hi Owen. I have found the difference was much clearer dialog, minute sounds are now heard, and my top end is more extended than it was with Audyssey. What I need to do is work on the bass a bit now as it is not as tight, revealing, or powerful as it was with Audyssey. In general the sound is better than it ever was before.:T


Thanks Ron. I find that low or muddy dialogue is fast becoming my top pet peeve in the HT. It is often underestimated (as it used to be by me) and can be tough to actually improve.

I just took a look at the CuBoxTV and it seems like a great little unit. Lately my WDLive has been stuttering with some 1080p material (even direct from USB) and while it might be specific codecs or something, I think it might be nice to have the processing power in that CuBox.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



Savjac said:


> Wow Ron, how did you find those so fast ??
> I have never used craigslist, good to know and yes St. Louis is an hour and a half from me, not too far at all.
> I will send a message now.
> 
> Thank You


Somebody on FB just picked up a pair of raw birch La Scalas for $150... The pics look like they were in excellent to mint condition. I think it was in Salt Lake City.:T:T


----------



## Savjac

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



ellisr63 said:


> Somebody on FB just picked up a pair of raw birch La Scalas for $150... The pics look like they were in excellent to mint condition. I think it was in Salt Lake City.:T:T


You are such a tease. I have not looked in many other cities so in reality this may be my fault. I think I have a line on another pair of Klipsch like the ones I already have. That would be soo cool.


----------



## NBPk402

*Re: My retirement Home Theater*



Savjac said:


> You are such a tease. I have not looked in many other cities so in reality this may be my fault. I think I have a line on another pair of Klipsch like the ones I already have. That would be soo cool.


I was shocked when I saw the pics of the ones he got for $150...they looked brand new!


----------



## NBPk402

Today, I hope to get the new JBLs mounted on the rear wall. This will be a little involved as I need to remove the Roxul, make new would supports, re-install the Roxul, install new rubber, and then mount them. Once I have this all done I plan to tackle the PC noise, and then run REW, and calibrate the whole setup again with the Dirac.

Hopefully this weekend I can get one pair of the Atmos channels mapped to the proper location, and installed. I hope to also get the 2nd pair mapped to the correct location, so when I get a 2nd pair I will be able to mount them quickly.


----------



## NBPk402

Didn't get as far as I had hoped...

I now have the Klipsch Speakers removed, and the new JBLs in their place. I still need to cut more Roxul to stuff around the rear channels, and then staple some fresh rubber sheets around the speakers. Once this is done I need to make some new fabric panels for the rear wall, and then run the Dirac again.

Meanwhile i am still trying to figure out the Media Server issue in our living room too.

Just not enough hours in the day to get everything done.


----------



## NBPk402

I think I might have solved the Media Server problem thanks to a fellow Forum member... I rebooted the router, and movies are playing properly now, I will see what happens over the next few days. 

Today I will work on finishing up the insulation stuffing around the speakers. I also need to get some new mesh grills for the subs.


----------



## NBPk402

Today is the day my new AVP is arriving. :T :T


----------



## NBPk402

Whew... Got the amp at about 1pm today, and I just got it installed. It took much longer than I expected to rearrange, and rewire the whole rack. One nice thing is when I rewired the rack the noise I had from my NUCs is now gone...it is so nice to have a setup that is virtually silent again.

Now I need to learn my way around the Yamaha, and figure out how to get the new firmware, and install it.

I did do a little bit of playing some music in stereo only, and I do have to say it sounded great. Once I get the 2 Atmos channels installed I will run YPAO to get the measurements for the height channel so I can retain Dirac.


----------



## NBPk402

I did a little more listening without tuning the setup and I noticed this...

Previously everything was going through the Oppo 103 to the Krell Showcase 7.1 via the analog 7.1 cables where now we are going directly from the NUCs to the Yamaha via HDMI. What I noticed was a much tighter bass, and more definition in the vocals to where individual voices and instruments are even more 3d like (we though it couldn't get any better than it was). I never expected the Yamaha to make it sound this much cleaner than the Krell.

I have to assume the Sabre ESS Ultra DAC ES9016S is much better than the Cirrus Logic CS4382...it also makes me wonder how the ESS Sabre32 Reference ES9018 would sound in comparison.


----------



## chrapladm

I never really looked when you mentioned it but 11 channels of amp power in a silent case for about 2500 is a bargain I feel.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> I never really looked when you mentioned it but 11 channels of amp power in a silent case for about 2500 is a bargain I feel.


Considering the efficiency of my system it is more than enough power for me.:T:T

Once i get this setup paid off I am considering getting a custom made 3 channel balanced clone amp made for the front 3 horns. I am looking at this because my Yamaha Pro 4 channel amp runs with the fan on full time (the only Yamaha Pro amp I have that the fan even turns on. I called Yamaha and they said that is the way that one was designed).


----------



## NBPk402

Just ordered 10 more yards of GOM from GIK. Hopefully this will give me enough material to finish the walls and the hallway entrance.

As soon as i finalize the location for the Atmos channels I will get 2 up and running. Hopefully I will find one last good deal on another pair of JBL 8320s for the Atmos channels to finish it off too.


----------



## NBPk402

Just cranked up some music to +10 with the Yamaha... 114db from the 2nd row which is 19' from the screen. I would never listen to even a song for more than a few seconds at that level.


----------



## willis7469

ellisr63 said:


> Just cranked up some music to +10 with the Yamaha... 114db from the 2nd row which is 19' from the screen. I would never listen to even a song for more than a few seconds at that level.


 yeah! Just because you can! 
This is per our conversation. Hope you don't mind. You can chuck it when your done looking. Just seemed like an OK place to show you. I've since moved my mains farther apart slightly, but you get the idea. Tia.


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> yeah! Just because you can!
> This is per our conversation. Hope you don't mind. You can chuck it when your done looking. Just seemed like an OK place to show you. I've since moved my mains farther apart slightly, but you get the idea. Tia.


Some heavy curtains would help reflections over the sliding glass doors...not as much as sound panels but i believe it would help.


----------



## NBPk402

Today I got the support 3/4" wood strips up on the hallway ceiling for the cloth panels, and I finished the one wall of fabric panels... I am not really happy with the results as I was dealing with an inside corner, and there is a very noticeable crease or two. I think I can figure out a way to hide it.

I also gave 2 new signs (Dolby Atmos, and DTS-X) I picked up to a friend to have some plaques made for them.

Lastly I decided to order a LED Illuminated Writing Erasable Message Board for the entrance door. This should be in on Wednesday (Amazon Prime order). I was having difficulty finding a sign I liked for a reasonable price until I saw this one. I think it will look pretty nice as you use Fluorescent Dry Erase markers. If it doesn't work out for me I will see if my wife wants to use it. I will post up some pics of it on the door if it works out (after I get the boards planed so it is flush with the front of the door).


----------



## NBPk402

Today was not as productive as I had hoped. I picked up the wood needed for the hallway ceiling panels along with the ceiling anchors for Atmos channels. I ended up getting only 2 of the Atmos speakers mounted to the ceiling with one being off by 2". I hope that is fine as I don't want to keep putting holes in my sealed sealing.

Tomorrow I hope to get the hallway ceiling completed, and then start working on the rest of the wall panels in the HT. I have about a dozen to make for the walls plus I need to finish off the empty ceiling panels. The ceiling panels will take the longest as mounts have to be put in the ceiling for the hangers of each panel...luckily the panels will be 2'x4' where ever possible. On the walls most of the panels are less than 2' at the largest dimension, which ends up taking more time to make.

I also have a new HT entry sign which I need to test out and then modify the entry door for the panel.


----------



## NBPk402

Today I got one of the cover boxes made for the JBL ceiling speakers (still need to put the hangers in the ceiling and on the frame), and some graphics for the new sign (I will post a pic of the new entrance sign as soon as we get it done). Hopefully tomorrow will be cooler than it was today, so I can get more progress done.

Right now I am stumped on how to remove the grill on the JBL 8320 speaker. I looked at the spare 8340A that I have and it appeared the only way to remove it was to remove about a dozen screws from the rear of the box... I did this and it came off. On the 8320 (which looks identical to the 8340A other than smaller drivers), I tried this and it still doesn't want to come off. It looks like it is removing the whole front of the cabinet! Has anyone had experience in removing this that might be able to give me some insight on how to do this? I have tried using the plastic tools that car stereo installers use to no avail.


----------



## NBPk402

I have the cover for one of the Atmos speakers in place now...time to make the other one.

I did run the Dirac again since i have swapped out the HIPs for the 8340s now, and I decided to play some music.

If you like nice tight bass you need to get the Talking Heads- Speaking in Tongues 5.1 audio dvd. It will knock your socks off! It is crystal clear, and has a nice tight bass. I ran my 5100 all the way up to +15, and it sounded like I was in a club a couple of feet from a speaker, and the bass notes were like someone was punching the back of my seat. Make sure you listen to "Swamp and crank it up! :T :T


----------



## NBPk402

I have the Theater sign temporarily mounted now... It will eventually be recessed about 1/4" from the door front. It is pretty neat, as it changes colors. The only bad thing is it collects dust so it doesn't look clean when lit, plus i am getting reflections from the pond in the pic.


----------



## NBPk402

Here is a night shot of the sign...


----------



## willis7469

Nice Ron!


----------



## NBPk402

willis7469 said:


> Nice Ron!


Thanks, I was looking for an inexpensive sign and found it on Amazon. :T


----------



## NBPk402

Decided to try out a Anamorphic lense... I am getting a Panamorph UH-480 (B stock). I am hoping this will give me the brightness of the normal lamp mode with the eco setting. I should have it next week.


----------



## NBPk402

Today i hooked up the 4 channel Yamaha Pro amp for the Atmos channels, and calibrated with YPAO. Once i had this completed I copied the Atmos channels EQ onto a piece of paper, and then reset the YPAO settings back to default...then I went in, and manually input the EQ settings for Atmos only. The next step was to knock all the distances except for the Atmos channels to "1" (the lowest you can go), and reset the levels on all the non Atmos channels to zero. Then i turned on the Dirac once again. I am going to see how this sounds, and then double check all my channels to make sure the Atmos levels are the same as the rest of the Dirac adjusted levels.


So far the only thing i am not happy with is the Yamaha PRo XM4180 amp as it is the first Yamaha Pro amp i have had that has the fan on 24/7. I called yamaha Tech support and they said with this amp the fan will always be on (unlike all the P series amps I have used in the past). A friend of mine suggested modding the fans to get them quiet...which i am seriously considering doing. The amp has been on for about 4 hours and is cold to the touch. I realize that when you run it with movies it could run hotter. I am very tempted to disconnect the fan entirely, and put a thermostatically controlled fan (with temp sensor attached to the Yamaha to get it silent again.


----------



## Talley

ellisr63 said:


> Today i hooked up the 4 channel Yamaha Pro amp for the Atmos channels, and calibrated with YPAO. Once i had this completed I copied the Atmos channels EQ onto a piece of paper, and then reset the YPAO settings back to default...then I went in, and manually input the EQ settings for Atmos only. The next step was to knock all the distances except for the Atmos channels to "1" (the lowest you can go), and reset the levels on all the non Atmos channels to zero. Then i turned on the Dirac once again. I am going to see how this sounds, and then double check all my channels to make sure the Atmos levels are the same as the rest of the Dirac adjusted levels.
> 
> 
> So far the only thing i am not happy with is the Yamaha PRo XM4180 amp as it is the first Yamaha Pro amp i have had that has the fan on 24/7. I called yamaha Tech support and they said with this amp the fan will always be on (unlike all the P series amps I have used in the past). A friend of mine suggested modding the fans to get them quiet...which i am seriously considering doing. The amp has been on for about 4 hours and is cold to the touch. I realize that when you run it with movies it could run hotter. I am very tempted to disconnect the fan entirely, and put a thermostatically controlled fan (with temp sensor attached to the Yamaha to get it silent again.


My amp bakes at 165F w/ no fans.... 24/7 during operation be it peaks or idle. You shouldn't need any fans.


----------



## NBPk402

I just received my Panamorph Anamorphic lens... This is awesome using windows on a 195" scope screen! I only have it sitting on a shelf with no tuning yet. Def is going to be nice to watch some movies.


----------



## NBPk402

I still haven't tuned it, but so far i can see an increase in Lumens, clarity, pop, and more rez in dark scenes. I was a little worried as I had seen claims that there would be a 30% increase in lumens, while others said there would be little to none. In my situation it is def better than using the zoom. The only downside I have seen is when I use my PC I need to switch the projector to 15x9, and then when I switch to a movie I need to switch to V-Fit. I don't know how to have the ae8000 auto switch that feature.


----------



## NBPk402

Today I had a little bit of progress... I made a 4" frame for the screen. After doing this the picture looks like it is brighter than before, plus the dark scenes look like they have more detail. Next I will be making a new cover for the area between the rack and the screen, and then finish off the front stage.

Loving the anamorphic lens!


----------



## NBPk402

Would it be ok to use velvet on top of my sub grill, or will that effect the sound? I am asking this because bass travels through virtually everything.


----------



## bpape

The only problem might be the velvet 'flapping'.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> The only problem might be the velvet 'flapping'.


My other option is to cut a hole in the velvet covering the front stage and paint the grill flat black. I am not sure if painted metal will be black enough though since the grill is about 6" from the bottom of the screen.


----------



## NBPk402

Last night I draped the velvet over the stage...so far i have not heard any flapping at all. I think I will attach it to the stage, and then cut a hole where the grill is if i hear any flapping.


----------



## NBPk402

Just picked up another pair of the JBL 8320s for my Atmos channels off of eBay. This should complete my system for quite a while unless i decide to go with 6 Atmos channels. :T

Next we will be pulling the couch out of the HT, and I will be moving the 2nd row seating to the front row, and putting the one power recliner in the center of the 2nd row. I also have a exercise bike that was given to me that will go in the 2nd row for now. Then i can finish off the last of the wall/ceiling panels, and stuff the soffits with Roxul.

Electrician is coming over today to install my 2nd row of track lighting, and an outlet for our hallway LED lights.

It is nice to be finally getting to the end of the build.


----------



## NBPk402

Electrician got the track lights installed... Now the room is bright enough to read by without any trouble. Unbelievable how much light little LED track lights put out. It only took 6 little LEDs to light up the room. These lights were installed in two rows on the ceiling, and they put out more light than the 7 LEDs that are in the soffits.


----------



## NBPk402

I have my 2nd pair (rear pair) of Atmos speakers coming, and I am not sure where to install them. 

1: Should they be parallel to the front pair? If I make them parallel to the front pair the left hand speaker will need to go into the soffit (which will put the speaker facing downward 4" lower than the other Atmos channels) I could mount it the same as the other speakers (directly to the ceiling), but then I have to worry about the dispersion pattern hitting the sides of the soffit.

2: If I mount it the same way as the front pair...then the right side would be parallel to the front Atmos, but the left channel would be 2' closer to the MLP than the right side.

I am not going to cut down walls, or soffits to make it symmetrical... What should I do?


----------



## NBPk402

The last pair of JBL 8320s showed up today. Project this week will be to get them hung, and then this weekend run the room tune again (after the couch is removed from the room, and the 2nd row is moved to replace the front row). I have an exercise bike, and one recliner that will go in the 2nd row for now.


----------



## NBPk402

So far I have done the following this week...

1: removed the couch in the front row
2: moved the 4 recliners from the 2nd row to the front row
3: moved the power recliner to the 2nd row center
4: moved the exercise bike to the 2nd row
5: installed both rear Atmos speakers


Next will be to wire them up to the Yamaha Pro 4 channel amp, and retune the room.


----------



## NBPk402

I ran the wires today for the rear Atmos channels, and found that i have no sound.... Checked the cables, and found that i only ordered 1 pr of XLR cables for the Atmos setup.:crying:

Went back online and ordered another pair from Monoprice. I should have them by Thursday, so I will be tuning the setup Thursday or Friday. If the weather holds out (and I am up to it), I will make some more ceiling panels tomorrow.


----------



## Lumen

ellisr63 said:


> I have my 2nd pair (rear pair) of Atmos speakers coming, and I am not sure where to install them.
> 
> 1: Should they be parallel to the front pair? If I make them parallel to the front pair the left hand speaker will need to go into the soffit (which will put the speaker facing downward 4" lower than the other Atmos channels) I could mount it the same as the other speakers (directly to the ceiling), but then I have to worry about the dispersion pattern hitting the sides of the soffit.
> 
> 2: If I mount it the same way as the front pair...then the right side would be parallel to the front Atmos, but the left channel would be 2' closer to the MLP than the right side.
> 
> I am not going to cut down walls, or soffits to make it symmetrical... What should I do?



Thanks for the updates! I've enjoyed following along, and don't blame you for not wanting to compromise the soffits. You seem to be in a conundrum. I'd have to agree with you on the dispersion pattern resulting from mounting the left Atmos too close. What if you mounted the rear pair symmetrical w.r.t. the LP (meaning both would be 2' closer)? I realize that front and rear pairs would no longer be the same distance from the LP, but wouldn't room correction compensate levels accordingly?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Lumen said:


> Thanks for the updates! I've enjoyed following along, and don't blame you for not wanting to compromise the soffits. You seem to be in a conundrum. I'd have to agree with you on the dispersion pattern resulting from mounting the left Atmos too close. What if you mounted the rear pair symmetrical w.r.t. the LP (meaning both would be 2' closer)? I realize that front and rear pairs would no longer be the same distance from the LP, but wouldn't room correction compensate levels accordingly?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Thanks, I hope I am not boring anyone with my little updates...

What I ended up doing was mounting one speaker in the soffit (Left rear) directly behind the front Left Atmos channel, and the other one directly behind the front right Atmos channel (both rear channel Atmos speakers are lined up equally to themselves, and spaced equally from the front Atmos channels (if this makes sense...speakers are now arranged in a rectangle on the ceiling). Luckily the left rear speaker is in the area where the hallway ends and sticks out from the wall a little bit (it will be unobstructed in 3 directions by 4' or more (same as the front Atmos speakers from the side walls)), and will be the same distance from the side wall as the right Atmos speakers). We will see how it works out. This puts the rear Atmos speakers a little closer to the MLP than the fronts, but not by much. 

I have moved the rear recliners to the front I actually increased the distance to the Atmos channels as we usually watch with the seats reclined.

Since I still need to finish the bottoms of the soffit... I am going to use GOM for where the speaker is, and I might even just do the bottoms of all the soffit with GOM, and the sides will either stay black velvet or I will do them also in GOM.


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday I made 8 more ceiling panel frames, and wrapped 3 of them in GOM. Today I hope to get the rest wrapped in GOM, and get some if not all hung. Once this is completed, I will only have a narrow section all around the room to complete, the area around the entrance door, the hallway ceiling, and around the doors. We a finally getting close to completion.


This time i made the panels out of redwood...it was a little more expensive, but they are almost half the weight of the pine ones. I figure the lighter the better when it is hanging from the ceiling.


----------



## NBPk402

Well almost a month later i have finished 6 of the 7 needed panels for the ceiling, and they are now installed. All that is left now (for the ceiling in the HT) is to wrap one more panel, make 3 more full size panels, and make narrow panels for both side walls. I am debating on making another row for right next to the screen (this would make the entire ceiling covered in panels (stuffed, and empty).

Next will then be to finish off the soffits. I am thinking of re-doing the soffits on the equipment rack side. We made it as a bass soffit, but I think it would be better if it was sealed off with 2 layers of drywall, and then covered with the panels. The reason for this is we have a HVAC duct inside the soffit, and I believe we can reduce more noise from escaping from the room.


----------



## NBPk402

Update: Today I removed the projector, and shelf and mounted it properly from the ceiling... I also centered the lens on the screen so I don't have to use the lens shift except for up and down. Next will be to make a new mount for the Panamorph lens. I picked up a pair of plumbers standoff mounts, and some pvc pipe threaded adapters. I plan on using these to get my distance right where it needs to be. If it turns out to not be sturdy enough, I will make a new mount. Hopefully i can get some more panels completed this week with some of my old pieces that are not being used anymore.


----------



## NBPk402

Update: This week I have gotten the projector ceiling mounted along with the lens. I also have been working on some more panels that were missing. Yesterday, and today I worked on the hallway panels...I still need a couple more for the wall, cover the ceiling, and one small corner. Most likely it will be a while before i can make any more panels as I only have a couple of small pieces of GOM left. Friday, I plan to retune the room with YPAO, and Dirac. This time i am going to try and do 4 tunes... I will try a front row MLP for stereo, and another for surround. Once I have those 2 done I will do the same for the second row.


----------



## Talley

so without going through 70 pages of stuff where are the pics?

I just realized but you have a massive screen size. wow.


----------



## NBPk402

Talley said:


> so without going through 70 pages of stuff where are the pics?
> 
> I just realized but you have a massive screen size. wow.


Thanks for reminding me Talley! Rather than search through 70 pages... I added them to the first post. Sorry, I forgot that they got buried in the thread.


----------



## JBrax

Wow! That screen is massive.


----------



## Savjac

Now that I see the newest photos I have to admit that what you have accomplished is brilliant indeed. I am sooo green right now that I may actually have to start my own rebuilt. 
I dont know where you are Ron but man viewing your room is high on my bucket list. :yay2:


----------



## NBPk402

JBrax said:


> Wow! That screen is massive.


That's why we call it the go big or go home theater. :smile:



Savjac said:


> Now that I see the newest photos I have to admit that what you have accomplished is brilliant indeed. I am sooo green right now that I may actually have to start my own rebuilt.
> I dont know where you are Ron but man viewing your room is high on my bucket list. :yay2:


We are about 30 minutes from San Francisco. We still have some finishing touches to do, but it is 90% completed. :T


----------



## bpape

Talk about an immersive experience!


----------



## willis7469

I do love that room!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

The only thing I don't like in this build is that the sound in the front row is more spacious, and the sound in the 2nd row has more bass. What i am going to do is do several room tunes to solve the problem. I will have 2 tunes for the first row stereo, and another for surround, and 2 more tunes for the 2nd row. At least this way I can sit in the 2nd row and listen to music or watch movies and feel the bass, or sit in the front row, and be immersed in sound with less bass. I contacted MiniDSP, and they were kind enough to give me the codes to control the Dirac DDRC-88A from the USB port. A AVS Forum member also has the DDRC-88A and was kind enough to actually get the codes to work. Now i can select which one of the 4 inputs i want to use for a room tune. I will also have 2 tunes for the Yamaha (Atmos channels), and will be able to select front row surround and the Dirac, and Yamaha will switch to the proper settings. If, and when we do move I will not be doing a room in a room, but I will hopefully have a better shaped room that is also fully treated, and maybe 2 more DTS-10 subs.


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> Talk about an immersive experience!





willis7469 said:


> I do love that room!
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks guys, it was def worth building as it was a learning experience, and turned out great IMO. I do wish that the finish of the wall panels would have turned out better, but it was a DIY first attempt too, and it is not easy making panels on a house built in the 1960s with no square walls.


----------



## NBPk402

I just got my 2 signs for the HT back from a friend who made the frames for me. They came out great but one of them got scratched. 









[/URL][/IMG]

When I order more signs for other components I will most likely order a replacement for the DTS-X one.


----------



## NBPk402

System changes are coming...

(2) Crest CM2080 8 channel amps (200wpcx8)

I will be selling my Yamaha XM4080 (4x80), and my Oppo 103 (since it has only been used a couple of times in almost a year since buying it new). I also will be selling my Yamaha MXA5000 11 channel amp that i bought last August. When I am ready to move them I will post them up in the classifieds.


----------



## JBrax

ellisr63 said:


> System changes are coming... (2) Crest CM2080 8 channel amps (200wpcx8) I will be selling my Yamaha XM4080 (4x80), and my Oppo 103 (since it has only been used a couple of times in almost a year since buying it new). I also will be selling my Yamaha MXA5000 11 channel amp that i bought last August. When I am ready to move them I will post them up in the classifieds.


 Now that's some nice gear that'll be up for sale. I'm sure it will move quickly. I had a question for you in the Atmos thread if you could swing by and answer.


----------



## NBPk402

I have a FURMAN POWER CONDITIONER PL-8 also coming... I will use this for my equipment that has wall warts.


----------



## NBPk402

Today was spent changing the fans in the new Crest amps, re arranging the rack for the new equipment, and mounting the amps, and 2 Furman power units. Since my friend made all the new wires for me...that is one less thing to do now. Hopefully Friday or Saturday I will get the new amps wired up, and all the wiring nicely routed. Then i will need to run REW once again to get the levels set (I use the levels to get me to a level on the horns that gives me my crossover point). I do this to try and get the crossover settings as close as possible to where they were with the old Yamaha 11 channel amp.


----------



## NBPk402

I have a new upgrade coming to my HT... I have a 2nd Dirac DDRC-88a on the way. Now I will be able to also have Dirac do my Atmos channels and individually my subs. This will mean my setup is set for quite a while now unless I decide to swap out my main channels, or buy a new projector. Finally! 

I am glad I left room in the rack for it too!


----------



## NBPk402

One big advantage to getting a 2nd unit is that i can make 4 different tunes and switch between them on the fly. I plan on doing a front row stereo tune, and a movie tune, and then do the same for the 2nd row.


----------



## NBPk402

The Crest Audio amps are great, but they make too much hiss for 112db horns. I am going to keep the Crest amps and use them for my bass bins, Atmos, and surrounds only. I am picking up a pair of Parasound Zamp v3 amps for the horns. I love how compact they are, and fanless.


----------



## chrapladm

Have you chatted with Tsolms about his amps and inline filter?

I think he said he is using QSC PLD4.2's right now and doesnt have any hiss. Also from everyone I can tell the Crown Dsi amps are pretty good also. Depending on budget I will most likely try and use the Crowns for my setup. But I do want to own the 8 channel Crest amp also.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Have you chatted with Tsolms about his amps and inline filter?
> 
> I think he said he is using QSC PLD4.2's right now and doesnt have any hiss. Also from everyone I can tell the Crown Dsi amps are pretty good also. Depending on budget I will most likely try and use the Crowns for my setup. But I do want to own the 8 channel Crest amp also.


Thanks for the info, I had some Crown amps earlier last year, and they too were noisy for horns (they were some little amps used in Studios). My Yamaha Pro amps were dead silent noise wise, and also with the horns. I have a 50wpch 4 channel Yamaha pro amp, and it is a nice amp but the fans are on constantly. 2 amps in the rack with fans is enough for me. You should grab the Crest 8 channel amps for $295 while he still has them. I only paid a little over $300 for both Parasound amps shipped...so the investment is not bad at all. One thing I can say that I don't like is the Phoenix connectors...they are a pain to connect, and then you need to check them every once in a while to make sure they are still tight. I love XLRs.


----------



## chrapladm

What $295, which amp? Thats a steal if its the 2208.

I know the Dsi fans on the Crown hardly if ever come on. The QSC cinema lineup are the same. I also heard great things on the Yamaha amp. Funny thing is I was also looking at the old EV CD's also. Was trying to see how I can squeeze a 4722 speaker in my house. LOL For now I will just have to make something DIY.


----------



## NBPk402

Yup it is the 2208...if you look up a few posts, I listed the link to the seller. The amps are around $2500 msrp new. 

One other HTC member also bought one. The fans are on constantly, but I replaced them with some noticeably quieter ones.


----------



## NBPk402

We are currently trying the JUL 2360a horns crossed over at 400hz instead of 500hz with the EV DH1A drivers.


----------



## chrapladm

No link on my end but thats ok. I cant believe they are selling for that cheap. WOW.

That 2360 horn is a bit too small for me.  I was looking at an old EV horn or 2380 for a center channel perhaps. But who knows. Deals seems to happen when I dont have any money.


----------



## NBPk402

The cm2208 usually goes for around $600 used i believe. I just sent you a link that is much cheaper than what i paid... I hope you can get it!


----------



## NBPk402

I just put the minimum bid on it. If you don't get it, and want it I will sell it to you for what I paid.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> No link on my end but thats ok. I cant believe they are selling for that cheap. WOW.
> 
> That 2360 horn is a bit too small for me.  I was looking at an old EV horn or 2380 for a center channel perhaps. But who knows. Deals seems to happen when I don't have any money.


I used to have the EV Horn that was about the same size as my 2360A... I gave it away when I got the 3rd 2360A.


----------



## chrapladm

Ya as soon as I clicked on the link it said the bidding had ended. LOL

The EV horn was an option if I cant find the 2380 for an OK price. I know someone who has the EV horn just sitting on a shelf. Figured I would buy it off of him if I cant find anything. That guy also has way to much expensive equipment. Powersoft only amps, Lake Processors blah blah I cant afford one of his setups. But maybe the shelf product that is collecting dust.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> Ya as soon as I clicked on the link it said the bidding had ended. LOL


I got it for the minimum bid. 

I have one other possible person that might want another one...if not back up on eBay with it. I might actually get lucky and make a little money on it for once.


----------



## chrapladm

DO what you can, this hobby is expensive.


----------



## Savjac

Ellis, I love reading these posts on your forum here, they make me feel that anything is possible in my own place....well slightly less possible as I do not have a bank in my closet but I will follow your example here and do it right.


----------



## NBPk402

Savjac said:


> Ellis, I love reading these posts on your forum here, they make me feel that anything is possible in my own place....well slightly less possible as I do not have a bank in my closet but I will follow your example here and do it right.


I hear ya jack. I am retired, so no more 6 figure income.  That is why when I buy something I try to get used or the best deal I can find on it. Going back to Pro amps is a step forward again, and selling off the equipment i don't need allows me to fund changes to the system. As an example...selling the 11 channel Yamaha pays for both Crest Audio amps, both Parasound amps, 3 Furman power filters, and a new AVR for our living room. Buying consumer products new is a big expenditure, when you can buy used and get a much better deal. The Crest Audio amps are around $2500-$2700 used, and i paid $200-$295 for each one in excellent condition. Just look for the deals and you will find them.

My friend has done an even better budget setup than mine. He bought some in-wall subs with amps for a few hundred used, 3 EV DH1A drivers (about $300 for all 3), got 3 horns for free, few hundred for a Yamaha integrated amp (I think it was the A1), Yamaha pro amp for free, La Scala Bass bins for free, EV drivers for the Bass bins for about $100 each, and a free MiniDSP 2x4. He did this buy looking for deals.


----------



## NBPk402

I just picked up a 3rd Parasound Zamp, so now I will see how the front 3 horns sound with bridge mono power.  I didn't need the power, but the deal was too good to pass on. The only problem is I have a v1, v2, and a v3. I don't think this should make a difference once the room is tuned, but we will soon find out!


----------



## chrapladm

No no no that will just not do.:foottap: You have to have all v3's. The aesthetics will be way off. It will cause excessive ripples in the response that can not be eq'd out. LOL J


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> No no no that will just not do.:foottap: You have to have all v3's. The aesthetics will be way off. It will cause excessive ripples in the response that can not be eq'd out. LOL J


LOL
I would have liked to have them all the same, but I got them for 1/3-1/2 price. The amps appear to be basically identical except for cosmetics. Since no one will see them when they are tucked away in my hidden rack they will do fine.


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday was a long day, but I made some excellent progress. I was having problems with electrical noise with all of the replacement amps (but my friend tried them on his setup, and had none. My solution was to take the Yamaha Pro 4 channel amp and try it out. It took quite a while to rewire everything, but I eventually got the wires all remade to the new shorter distances (remaining balanced throughout instead of going balanced to unbalanced RCAs). I have to say it was def worth it, and I am glad I hadn't put it up for sale yet. The only downside is that the fans on this unit are noisier than I would like, but the plus side was there is no hiss coming from the horns anymore, plus I gained more headroom (3db) for the horns (overkill, I know). It took me from noon to about 8pm to get everything wired up for the front 3 channels, and subs. I shortened all of the wires for the outputs on the Dirac. In addition, every wire for the front 3 channels, and subs has now been labeled on the wires, Phoenix connectors, and amp hookups to where if anyone wanted to disconnect the wiring anyone could wire it back up by just looking at the wires, and matching it up to the Phoenix connectors(if it was disconnected there instead of the unit). Today i updated the 2nd unit to 88M, and I am currently waiting for the authorization code before i install the unit again. I figure once I get the 2nd unit installed... I will still need 1 to 2 days to get the REW run again (I changed the crossover to 400Hz from 500Hz), and to run the room tune on the 2 88M boxes (this is with no complications).


----------



## NBPk402

This morning i received my activation code for the 2nd 88A. Today the plan is to get the 2nd unit rack mounted and 16 cables made, and labeled. If I get that all done and have time I will do a room tune, and then save it. Next will be to run REW again to make sure everything is still perfect, and if it isn't correct it and re run Dirac.


----------



## NBPk402

Today i got the 2nd Dirac in place, rewired most of my rack, and cleaned it up quite a bit. I still need to do the wiring for the 8 inputs on the Dirac though, as it took quite a while to clean up the rest of the rats nest behind the rack.


----------



## Savjac

There is no way you are one person Ellis, based upon all the cool stuff you have and have done, you are at least 3 people. Just sayin


----------



## NBPk402

Savjac said:


> There is no way you are one person Ellis, based upon all the cool stuff you have and have done, you are at least 3 people. Just sayin


Thanks Jack, making custom cable lengths takes a lot longer than I thought, and these are just custom cut with Phoenix blocks. I am glad there was no RCA or XLR soldering involved.

Today I will see if I can get the last 8 connectors done.

One thing i have done for now is bundled my HDMI, and cat5 cables together. If I need to run them separate it is not a big deal but will not look as nice, as I have my cables dressed down the center of the rack. Once I get all the wires siruated, I am going to look at buying shorter AC cords too.


----------



## Savjac

Good idea, I am glad someone makes their own cables, rolls their own if you will. Makes it easy to get a perfect length,
I have used teflex with cable pants to some good end but first the teflex has to be put into that plastic shrink tubing junk in my case or it frays. 

Pictures are a must.


----------



## NBPk402

Savjac said:


> Good idea, I am glad someone makes their own cables, rolls their own if you will. Makes it easy to get a perfect length,
> I have used teflex with cable pants to some good end but first the teflex has to be put into that plastic shrink tubing junk in my case or it frays.
> 
> Pictures are a must.


What I am doing is taking MonoPrice XLR cables and cutting them down to what I need in length, and attaching them to Phoenix blocks...then labeling them. Not a big deal, but def time consuming.


----------



## Savjac

Interesting, I have never heard of anyone attaching cables to a phoenix box. Are the blocks the meeting point between two things ??


----------



## NBPk402

Savjac said:


> Interesting, I have never heard of anyone attaching cables to a phoenix box. Are the blocks the meeting point between two things ??


My Dirac, and Crest Audio Pro amp only have Phoenix connectors.


----------



## Savjac

Ill be darned, look at that. More connectors, I just cant keep up with them all.


----------



## NBPk402

Savjac said:


> Ill be darned, look at that. More connectors, I just cant keep up with them all.


The individual ones for balanced are nice, but the ones MiniDSP uses are smaller, and for 4 channels...they are harder to use. I wish they would have went with an XLR dongle instead.


----------



## NBPk402

Still trying to connect to the upgraded 88A boxes since I reinstalled Windows.  Hopefully I will have time today to get pics of the process to send to MiniDSP to get this figured out. Hopefully i don't have to pull the boxes out of the rack, and reinstall the firmware again.


----------



## NBPk402

I got the DDRC-88A/M units up, and running today.  

I also found out something interesting today...when I had the Yamaha MX-A5000 amp hooked up everything sounded good, but I felt there was a lack of dynamics. When we had the front 3 channels hooked up with the subs, and the Crest Audio/Yamaha 4080 amps, we noticed the dynamics were back. Today when I went to run the front 3 channels on Dirac #1 everything sounded great, but when I went to run the rear, and Atmos channels on Dirac #2, I couldn't get the levels up to match the fronts (fronts are 112db, and surrounds are 91db). I then remembered the Crest Audio amps have a "0", and "X40" setting for gain. I switched the Atmos/Surround channels to "X40", and my levels were almost exactly the same as the fronts in Dirac! 
This brings up a question:

How was the Yamaha doing it before? I am thinking that the CX-A5100 was knocking the output down for the front 3 channels, and boosting the Atmos/Surround channels up to get the levels equal. I think this might also be why we seemed to be missing dynamics.

Any thoughts on this?


----------



## NBPk402

I now have both Diracs up and running properly, and tuned from 1 position only. I am going to tune for all 9 positions this weekend (that is the plan...we will see how it goes  ). So far the sound is real close to the best I have had in the HT. The bass is a little looser than I would like, but that might be taken care of after I get the 9 position tune done.

I have just found a new reference quality disc for music... Adelle "25". When I listen to the disc from my back row... I hear her singing from my front row, and the chorus behind the screen which is 12' from the front row! I have never had a soundstage that deep, and in my face like this disc does. I also have purchased some other tunes I like, but I am getting pissed at the producers of the discs insisting on adding record static! I want a super clean sound like a studio should produce with everything nice and crisp, great imaging, great bass...overall just sounds great. When I had my TT setup I had zero record static, and this was with used records. Why do they insist on doing a retro sound to a non hifi sound? If i would have heard this static on the radio... I never would have bought it!


----------



## Savjac

ellisr63 said:


> I have just found a new reference quality disc for music... Adelle "25". When I listen to the disc from my back row... I hear her singing from my front row, and the chorus behind the screen which is 12' from the front row! I have never had a soundstage that deep, and in my face like this disc does. I also have purchased some other tunes I like, but I am getting pissed at the producers of the discs insisting on adding record static! I want a super clean sound like a studio should produce with everything nice and crisp, great imaging, great bass...overall just sounds great. When I had my TT setup I had zero record static, and this was with used records. Why do they insist on doing a retro sound to a non hifi sound? If i would have heard this static on the radio... I never would have bought it!


Very interesting Ellis, thanks for your thoughts on your new reference quality disc. I guess I had not considered 25 reference quality but I will certainly go listen to it again today on the new home theater PC. I do know her album 21 is horrific with absolutely no dynamics and very little sound staging but her voice is so good that it overtakes some of the negative aspects of the disc.
As far as adding static, tape noise and as you call it the retro sound I to am clueless on this. I see no reason for really good recording artists specially those like Mark Knopfler to run their master tapes or digital tapes through some sort of processor to degrade the sound so that it sounds like a record. It's not a record that never was a record and should be treated as a digital source that it is. Now this does not mean I'm saying digital is better under the same leave things alone don't mess further


----------



## NorthSky

Ron, it's always very interesting/informative...a pleasure a delight to read your posts. 
______

*Adele / 25*

• http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2015/11/19/why-i-will-not-buy-adeles-new-album-25/
• http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-music-downloads-and-streaming/adele-25-hi-res-26555/
______


----------



## NBPk402

Savjac said:


> Very interesting Ellis, thanks for your thoughts on your new reference quality disc. I guess I had not considered 25 reference quality but I will certainly go listen to it again today on the new home theater PC. I do know her album 21 is horrific with absolutely no dynamics and very little sound staging but her voice is so good that it overtakes some of the negative aspects of the disc.
> As far as adding static, tape noise and as you call it the retro sound I to am clueless on this. I see no reason for really good recording artists specially those like Mark Knopfler to run their master tapes or digital tapes through some sort of processor to degrade the sound so that it sounds like a record. It's not a record that never was a record and should be treated as a digital source that it is. Now this does not mean I'm saying digital is better under the same leave things alone don't mess further





NorthSky said:


> Ron, it's always very interesting/informative...a pleasure a delight to read your posts.
> ______
> 
> *Adele / 25*
> 
> • http://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2015/11/19/why-i-will-not-buy-adeles-new-album-25/
> • http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-music-downloads-and-streaming/adele-25-hi-res-26555/
> ______



Please let me know if your opinion is the same about the Adele "25" disc. I love it when music is crystal clear, and seems to almost be floating in the space in front of you, and this disc reminded me os Suzanne Vega in the way she floats in front of you and you hear everything so clearly. I t was a very simple recording that didn't have a ton going on, which might also make it sound better. The track I like the most so far is "Hello". I am glad that you said the older album was not good, as I was tempted to get it too, but was unsure of the quality of the recording.


----------



## NorthSky

Good morning Ron,

I played the CD couple times, just to make sure. I doubt that I'll play it again. I have 19, 21 and 25.
Adele is a super Pop star, selling big time to all her many fans. This is great for her, for her career, and to her future...27, 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36, and so on till about 79 or 81 with good health. 

There are few tunes I like from her, just for the tunes. For CD's sound quality...this ain't audiophile music stuff: 
http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/105216

I never commented personally on her music and sound quality before. I just posted two links and her picture. 
Music is so personal that it's like what you like for breakfast. 
What Adele has on me is that I got her three CDs.
What she doesn't have on me is that her section is in the compressed Pop zone, along with all the other CDs I accumulated over the years and gathering dust because of poor production values. But that's just my opinion. A lot of people love that sound, it's more about the lyrics, the melancholy, the related union. I think. 

It's great to be free to express ourselves respectfully and learn more about this planet and the people living on it. 
Everything is important, from the babies to the elderly. 

We're all humans; with a soul, a spirit, an awareness, a love, a passion, a heart.


----------



## NBPk402

NorthSky said:


> Good morning Ron,
> 
> I played the CD couple times, just to make sure. I doubt that I'll play it again. I have 19, 21 and 25.
> Adele is a super Pop star, selling big time to all her many fans. This is great for her, for her career, and to her future...27, 29, 30, 31, 33, 35, 36, and so on till about 79 or 81 with good health.
> 
> There are few tunes I like from her, just for the tunes. For CD's sound quality...this ain't audiophile music stuff:
> http://dr.loudness-war.info/album/view/105216
> 
> I never commented personally on her music and sound quality before. I just posted two links and her picture.
> Music is so personal that it's like what you like for breakfast.
> What Adele has on me is that I got her three CDs.
> What she doesn't have on me is that her section is in the compressed Pop zone, along with all the other CDs I accumulated over the years and gathering dust because of poor production values. But that's just my opinion. A lot of people love that sound, it's more about the lyrics, the melancholy, the related union. I think.
> 
> It's great to be free to express ourselves respectfully and learn more about this planet and the people living on it.
> Everything is important, from the babies to the elderly.
> 
> We're all humans; with a soul, a spirit, an awareness, a love, a passion, a heart.
> 
> Adele - Million Years Ago (Live at TODAY) Lyrics (CC) - YouTube


Strange... on my setup the soundstage depth is more than I have ever had before, and the clarity top to bottom is awesome (her backup singers are not quite as clear but never the less they were good too). I have to admit she is not my favorite singer but she is superb from top to bottom with her vocals IMO. Maybe it is because of my setup... I know I have tracks that sounded great on past systems that sound mediocre on my current setup.


----------



## Savjac

I have to say Ron that I don't hear a lot of depth in this disc but I think the way everything is hooked up in my system the depth is a little truncated by nature. I can tell that the reverb from her voice when she says Hello is pretty substantial than it goes away and she comes up front to sing for all of us.

Nevertheless I can say that this disc is much better than her previous one and has great dynamics particularly on your favorite song. I love it but then again I love most of her music.


----------



## NorthSky

One time I expressed my honest opinion on a recording from another female singer:










And it didn't suit some folks; I got banned. 
So I won't go through a similar experience. 

I like Adele, but she's not one of my top female singers. ...And her music and her recording engineers. I like few tunes and I feel good.
The opinions on 25's recording sound quality vary depending of each's own taste. It's not black and white...it's pink, red, blue, yellow, green, purple and violet.
My stereo system is probably not up to the high recording standards of 25. 
Maybe my CD is an inferior pressing, and I would need to step up: https://www.merchbar.com/pop/adele/adele-25-framed-exclusive

• https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1041544-who-mixed-adele-hello.html

Bonus:


----------



## NBPk402

NorthSky said:


> I like Adele, but she's not one of my top female singers. ...And her music and her recording engineers. I like few tunes and I feel good.
> The opinions on 25's recording sound quality vary depending of each's own taste. It's not black and white...it's pink, red, blue, yellow, green, purple and violet.
> My stereo system is probably not up to the high recording standards of 25.
> Maybe my CD is an inferior pressing, and I would need to step up: https://www.merchbar.com/pop/adele/adele-25-framed-exclusive
> 
> • https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/1041544-who-mixed-adele-hello.html
> 
> Bonus:
> 
> Lucky Chops - Hello (ADELE COVER) - YouTube


I wouldn't think you need a better copy. If you were listening to it on Youtube, I would say you do, but not if you have the store CD. I think the results I am getting are because I have a fully treated room. A friend of mine also has a treated room (not as much as mine, but we both have horns, and horn loaded bass), and also had similar results.


----------



## NorthSky

My room is not treated Ron, and my hi-fi stereo sound system is not audiophile high resolution. It's normal fi. 
I have her three CDs, including her last...25. 

You are most probably correct; your treated room and Dirac Live. Many of my CDs I hate their sound quality...the older stuff from the CD era...80s and 90s. 
The new stuff I like most is classical music and opera and # social music (jazz). ...The odd Blues, and some of the unknown world territories. 
I know a good friend who loves the Bee Gees and the Beatles. 

I need a better room and system to fully appreciate the music love. I try to be content today about tomorrow's past.


----------



## NBPk402

Today or tomorrow, I plan on tuning the room for all 9 positions with the Dirac on both boxes. My friend Travis will be coming over for dog training on Tuesday night, so i want it to be ready for another listening session (RF guy).We will see how it changes the sound...hoping it gets even better.


----------



## RF Guy

I was reading your post about Adele. So I gave it a listen on my two systems last night. The gym stereo and the stereo for the theater. I listened to the track Hello. In the gym the vocals are sitting in front of me. Her voice goes soaring and the gym stereo follows it better than in the house theater. My Yamaha front speakers are in the house. The in house stereo gets just a little muddy. The piano gets lost as the track progresses in the house. But the piano stays very clear in the gym. Also there is some percussion instrument that makes a "pop" sound starting around 2:00 into the song that stands out in the gym. But it gets lost in the house. I think my theater room is too "live" (not treated) and the system is not as dynamic as my gym stereo. In the gym the track is outstanding. In the house it is so-so. I even tried turning off the velodyne sub in the house to see if it was doing something strange. But nope. It didn't seem to be contributing much either. So listening to the track on my two systems gave me two very different experiences. My stereo in the house is not bad either. Good AVR and I like the speakers. Maybe the track just really shines coming out of horns? A couple other tracks sound great too. 
My two cents 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Today i finally got the new 88Ms configured and tuned...you might think this is no big deal, but I have to have the 1st mic position the same for each box! I decided to make "EGOR" he sits in the MLP, and is made up of scraps of wood, aluminum angles, a few screws, and lots of painters tape. He is hideous to look at but for free he did the job! When I decided I need to do this again... I envision using turnbuckles, wood, and aluminum. If I do it this way it would be infinitely adjustable. I covered the chair, and as much of him as possible with cloth to stop reflections during the tune.


Meet "EGOR"... I know he is ugly, and I am not proud of him, but he got the job done and he is within 1/2" for both directions.

Setup for Atmos:


Side shot for Atmos:


90 degree for front channels:


----------



## NorthSky

The Dolby Atmos tech guys; they do some similar for all speakers, including the ceiling ones?


----------



## NBPk402

NorthSky said:


> The Dolby Atmos tech guys; they do some similar for all speakers, including the ceiling ones?


Normally everyone I have seen just does the mic pointed forward, but since I have a separate box for surrounds/Atmos... I did the same as another AVSer that wrote up the procedures for dual box setups. Now in his setup he only had the Atmos channels on the 2nd box. I have all my Atmos, and surround channels on the same box, but my surrounds are close to the ceiling aiming down so I figured this would work. I have to tell you my dynamics are def back! A friend of mine came over (RF guy), and I cranked it up to "0", and the amps were just getting a signal (the green lights come on for each channel at approx 1 watt), but it was very loud, and the bass was rocking! My next tune will be for the 2nd row MLP.


----------



## NBPk402

RF Guy said:


> I was reading your post about Adele. So I gave it a listen on my two systems last night. The gym stereo and the stereo for the theater. I listened to the track Hello. In the gym the vocals are sitting in front of me. Her voice goes soaring and the gym stereo follows it better than in the house theater. My Yamaha front speakers are in the house. The in house stereo gets just a little muddy. The piano gets lost as the track progresses in the house. But the piano stays very clear in the gym. Also there is some percussion instrument that makes a "pop" sound starting around 2:00 into the song that stands out in the gym. But it gets lost in the house. I think my theater room is too "live" (not treated) and the system is not as dynamic as my gym stereo. In the gym the track is outstanding. In the house it is so-so. I even tried turning off the velodyne sub in the house to see if it was doing something strange. But nope. It didn't seem to be contributing much either. So listening to the track on my two systems gave me two very different experiences. My stereo in the house is not bad either. Good AVR and I like the speakers. Maybe the track just really shines coming out of horns? A couple other tracks sound great too.
> My two cents
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Thanks for posting up...feel free to post up about your thoughts (He comes over once a week to train his dog, and then listens to my HT setup). We will also be back to having Movie nights soon.


----------



## NBPk402

With the new amps in place...we are now finding that the listening level is lower than it was before. What I mean by this is that the volume is lower for equal or louder sound. I am wondering if the way i set the levels for the crossover when we lowered it from 500Hz to 400Hz is why. We also have noticed that we have more top end then we did with the 11 channel Yamaha. It appears we have the dynamics of the old Yamaha Pro amp stack back again too. At normal -30 to -20 the lights for a signal don't even turn on (should come on at about 1 watt).


----------



## NBPk402

I have been working on and off for the last week trying different software to rip my Roger Waters- Amused to Death 5.1 Bluray to my HDD, and until this morning i had limited success. I was able to get it ripped to an ISO, and then to individual mka files, but then I couldn't play the files. I wanted to have them as individual 5.1 wav or flac files so I continued to search. A lot of websites advertised their software as being able to do this, but what i found was they would only rip to a stereo or mono file... That was until I found Audiomuxer (a free program). I downloaded and installed the program and first tried to rip from my ISO file, and i had success, but didn't like it compressing the file by over 40% (I don't know if it would make a difference or not), so I did it again, and this time I had it rip it directly from the BR disc (I did this just in case the previous ISO had some alterations going on during the rip).

Once I was done I renamed the song, and dropped it into my Roger Waters directory in my 5.1 folder on my NAS, and played it through KODI. It sounds great! Now I am ripping it over one last time with all the tracks (I just did one to make sure it would work, and not have to waste anymore time with failed software).


----------



## RF Guy

ellisr63 said:


> I have been working on and off for the last week trying different software to rip my Roger Waters- Amused to Death 5.1 Bluray to my HDD, and until this morning i had limited success. I was able to get it ripped to an ISO, and then to individual mka files, but then I couldn't play the files. I wanted to have them as individual 5.1 wav or flac files so I continued to search. A lot of websites advertised their software as being able to do this, but what i found was they would only rip to a stereo or mono file... That was until I found Audiomuxer ).




Thanks for the software tip Ron!! I was able to rip a dvd audio to 5.1 .wav files with that program. The only other success I've had ripping that dvd ripped it as one big file with all the tracks as one track. It seems like I am always downloading programs trying to find one that will rip Dvd audio or BR audio....

Travis


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

RF Guy said:


> Thanks for the software tip Ron!! I was able to rip a dvd audio to 5.1 .wav files with that program. The only other success I've had ripping that dvd ripped it as one big file with all the tracks as one track. It seems like I am always downloading programs trying to find one that will rip Dvd audio or BR audio....
> 
> Travis
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No problem Travis. You can listen to Roger Waters-Amused to Death when you come over Tuesday night, and see how you like the 5.1 version vs the Q-Sound version..


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday a strange thing happened... I turned on the system and it sounded different. For some reason the bass seemed better in the null, so i checked my SPL to see what it was... I was hitting 115db (front row MLP)! Now what is strange is that normally we listen at -20 for serious listening, and it doesn't get above 110 from the 2nd row! You might say we raised the volume, but in fact this was at -30! It didn't sound that loud at all...it sounded about the same as when we listen at -20. I tried this on numerous disc, and the results were the same. My friend Travis came over, and I asked him to listen and see if he heard anything different...he listened for a while and comment on the bass, and sound stage. He thought it sounded better than ever and that it sounded just a bit louder than before. When I had him look at the spl meter he was shocked too. The only thing i could think of was something breaking in finally. The only new equipment in the rack is the Yamaha CX-A5100, and the DDRC-88A units, and the Yamaha has been in use since it was released. Both of the DDRC-88A boxes are also about the same age. Could it be that the Yamaha has just broken in? I have not noticed a chance in sound from break in since my Tube Pre-amp days.


----------



## Todd Anderson

Oh my goodness... Ron. Was just looking at all the pics of your room. Beautiful!!!!


As for your last post... hmmm... that kind of big change...weird. And your sub in the same position?


----------



## NBPk402

Todd Anderson said:


> Oh my goodness... Ron. Was just looking at all the pics of your room. Beautiful!!!!
> 
> 
> As for your last post... hmmm... that kind of big change...weird. And your sub in the same position?


Thanks Todd. My front sub is under the front stage, and the rear one is under the floor. I can't think of anything other than break in, and that sounds strange too. My friend was also stumped as to why the drastic change... He thought I had re-tuned the room! Our null was right where the MLP is, and now the null is in front of the MLP! How could it change?


----------



## RF Guy

Hey Ron is there any way you could have made changes that did not take effect until something was reset\power cycled? Last Tuesday your system sounded very different than the last time I heard it.


----------



## NBPk402

RF Guy said:


> Hey Ron is there any way you could have made changes that did not take effect until something was reset\power cycled? Last Tuesday your system sounded very different than the last time I heard it.


The only settings would have been the Dirac boxes, but those are on 24/7. I am at a lost as to why it changed so much.


----------



## NBPk402

I am having the worst luck lately... Friday I went to power up the rack, and the Sub amp was dead.  I called Yamaha, and got the address for the repair (warranty), and dropped it off today. The Tech said he thinks it might be the Power Supply(from what I told him happened). Hopefully it doesn't take long to get it back. Meanwhile I am listening to everything crossed over at 60Hz. It def is lacking warmth now.


----------



## NBPk402

had a pleasant surprise yesterday... I found out you can rip SACDs with certain Oppo, Cambridge Audio, and Pioneer players. I then searched and found a Open box Pioneer Elite BDP-80DF for a fair price, and ordered it...I should have it Thursday. Now I can rip my Jazz at the pawnshop 5.1 disc to my NAS. :T I also just ordered Genesis Invisible Touch in 5.1 too. I love the 5.1 versions of my favorite bands.


----------



## bpape

That's nice to know. Do you have a list of which players?


----------



## NBPk402

bpape said:


> That's nice to know. Do you have a list of which players?


Here is the link... It can only be done with the players that can play SACDs, and meet the following requirements: 1) have Mediatek chips MT8580 (like Oppo 103/105, Cambridge Audio 752bd/cxu, Pioneer bdp-lx58/88 ) or MT8560 (like Pioneer BDP-160/170). The BDP-180 is removed as it was found to be incompatible, and others have used the BDP-80DF successfully (plus it is still available BNIB).
2) have an ethernet connection
3) have normal factory firmwares (meaning no mods)


----------



## bpape

Sweet - thanks!


----------



## Savjac

This would be great but I dont for a second understand what he said to do....
I got so far as to understand that I have the proper SACD player and well, thats it.


----------



## NBPk402

Savjac said:


> This would be great but I dont for a second understand what he said to do....
> I got so far as to understand that I have the proper SACD player and well, thats it.


I will be trying my first SACD backup rip this week... I will post how it goes. From what I have read once you do the first rip it is automatic (if you leave the player in standby mode). Post #26 in the link gives a little more info.


----------



## Savjac

Thank You Ron, I will re read what that gent is saying and will of course look forward to your update. 

Good Luck


----------



## NBPk402

I just unpacked the Pioneer literally 10 minutes ago, and I am ripping my first SACD! It is so simple. 

All I did was: 
1: Unzip the files.

2: Copy the files per the instructions to 2 locations.
A: One folder goes to a formatted USB stick.
B: One folder goes to a HDD on your PC or LAN at the root level.

3: Use notepad to edit the IP address (this is in the folder on your HDD...I looked at what it was defaulting to in the script file, and then made that the IP address in the Pioneer). 

4: I disabled autoplay on the Pioneer, selected Bitstream over HDMI (to allow DSD playback with my Yamaha). 

5: Insert the USB stick you prepared, and turn the player (in my case the pioneer) off.

6: Turn the player on, and wait for the cd tray to open.

7: Insert the SACD you want to rip when the tray opens, and then close the tray.

8: Wait for the player to say SACD on the display. 

9: Go into Windows and open Command Prompt, and change the drive to your drive with the desired folder (the SACD folder you put on the HDD), and type "sacd.cmd".

10: if all goes well you should start ripping your SACD in a few seconds. Mine is ripping at about 2.67MB/sec. 

11: This will leave you with an ISO. You can either use the ISO or rip the ISO to a multi track .wav, or .flac file.

12. Sit down and enjoy your ripped SACD. :T

I started to rip the SACD when I started to write the instructions, and it was an ISO by the time i had the first 12 steps written. Now to rip the ISO to a FLAC.


----------



## NBPk402

Update: I downloaded iso2dsd, and directed it to the correct folder where the iso was (it goes to the hdd folder with the SACD extractor file), and in about a minute it was a DSD file.


----------



## NBPk402

I found a nice piece of software for tagging your songs if you have cue file, and you ripped the whole disc to a single file...this software rips the file to multiple files, and inserts the song info too.:T


----------



## NBPk402

Last night I played a SACD disc that turned out to be awesome! I have only listened to the first song so far, but it is great! The SACD is The Charlie Byrd Trio with special guest Ken Peplowski - The Bossa Nova Years. So far I have only listened to the first track, but it is one of my best songs so far of all my SACDs.


----------



## NBPk402

If you like Frampton...you will love "Frampton Comes Alive" on SACD! I had thought the new Roger Waters album was good...until I got a hold of the SACD of "Frampton Comes Alive"! It is crystal clear unlike most 70-80s music I have in my collection.


----------



## NBPk402

Ever since we set the room up I have been questioning the front 3 speakers alignment (we had aligned them with a tape measure, and a flashlight pointed down the throat)...today I put a Bosch GLM-15 laser on each speaker to see how they were aligned (I made a little wooden L shaped stand with an angle on the bottom to sit on the flare of the horn, and the Bosch taped to the bottom of the stand). When we did it the first time we did it from the MLP (mistake), and today I did it from the slot on the horn. The differences were dramatic(I am embarrassed on how far we were off)! I ended up moving the MLP to the right by over a foot,and then re aligning the left speaker a good portion, and the right a little bit. I then checked the distances from the MLP, and from the horn... I found my distances were within a couple of inches for the left and right, but the front channel is off by 2' (this is because the center is aligned to the screen vs an arc). I was going to move the horn back, but I noticed the bass bin can't go back any at all, so I decided to leave the center where it is (I didn't want to have to change the delays on the center to match the horn being 2' further back, as this would mean the delays would not be the same for the front 3 channels). This will allow me to tune the room much better as it will be a single full range box per channel vs a 4'x4' pie shaped bass bin and a 3'x3' horn on top of it. It also should get me down to 40Hz before the sub.


I will re run Dirac later as it sounds much better already, and I am going to be trying to make some new speakers for the front 3 channels pretty soon. These will be similar to the Danley SH-50 speakers, but made out of wood, and the horns will be the size of the Klipsch 401s. We will then have either 2 or 4 15" woofers inside of each box Unity style.


----------



## NBPk402

Last night I re ran Dirac for the front row MLP, and I have to say that watching Captain America Civil War sounded even better than I recall it sounding before! The EQ I have now is great for movies with plenty of bass, but I am not sure I am happy with the Stereo though...I seem to have lost a bit of clarity, but I believe I have better dynamics this time. 

What I changed this time was:
In Dirac you lower both volume bars to zero, and then raise the upper bar until you get to 24...this time I raised it until I could see the bar, and then lowered it until it just disappeared, this is at -36db. Then I raised the lower bar until I got to the middle of the green area. One thing I noticed immediately was that when Dirac is calibrating, the display line is very thin, but in the past it was a thick line. I had read that by doing it this way the dynamic would improve, and I believe they have.

Hopefully sometime this week I will have time to run Dirac again, and see if different settings will get it even better.

BTW: If you haven't tried SACDs you don't know what you are missing! I have been picking them up whenever I see one I want, and in general they are reference quality audio. Some of the old ones are so so, but still better than the original, and some of them are must have!


----------



## NBPk402

I had some friends over since the new tune, and the consensus is that it is a great tune. I am not 100% happy with the bass or the midrange as something seems to me to be a little off. At times I think the bass is a little one note like and the mids seem to be down a little in level. At other times I am actually hearing instruments that I have not heard before (lower level). To be honest the most recent tune was a one position tune and that is where the clarity seemed to be the best ever in my setup. In general it is a great tune, but I will try this time a close pattern for the mic instead of over 3 seats, and see if that brings back what I think I am missing. Great thing about the Dirac is you can save up to 4 settings, and switch between them.


----------



## NBPk402

I have one of my new speaker getting close to completion now. If you check out my Synergy thread you will see the progress. I will post completed pics there and here when it is done. Hopefully these new speakers will allow me to replace my Horns, and Bass Bins.


----------



## NBPk402

We will have a delay until after the holidays in getting the first Synergy DIY completed. I will post up pics when we start to work on it again.


----------



## tonyvdb

ellisr63 said:


> Last night I re ran Dirac for the front row MLP, and I have to say that watching Captain America Civil War sounded even better than I recall it sounding before! The EQ I have now is great for movies with plenty of bass, but I am not sure I am happy with the Stereo though...I seem to have lost a bit of clarity, but I believe I have better dynamics this time.


I found this is an issue with many room EQ systems. When it applies filters above 400Hz that are not done evenly to both left and right channels it messes with the imaging and the front soundstage collapses somewhat.


----------



## NBPk402

Today was my lucky day... I won a Oppo UDP-203 4k player! I should have it some time in January.  This will be a great addition to our Living Room setup with our Samsung 4k FP.


----------



## NBPk402

Sunday we worked on getting the last 2 sides (top and bottom) of the 1st horn completed...it took us 6 hours to get it done. We did though get 2 extra done so we won't have to deal with the angles for the next speaker horn.



Next we will be trimming the horn flush with the cabinet, and then make the extensions for the horns (different angle).


----------



## NBPk402

Here are some updated pics from last weekend...
Next will be installing driver, seals, wiring, and putty.


----------



## NBPk402

I am contemplating working on the front wall again... I am planning on pulling the screen down, and removing the stage. The new plan is to lower the screen down so it can be hinged (Same as original plan), and then have the new front 3 channels sitting on stands. I will also have the sub either against the wall facing me or relocate it to one of the side walls in the HT. The 2nd plan is to relocate the equipment behind the screen and expand the movie storage area (where the rack and movies currently are). When I do this I will also move the left side wall over another foot to where it just conceals the movie storage racks. 

By going this route I can move the screen back (possibly as mush as 3'), and this will allow me to move the front row forward plus allow me to remove the rear row stage and have seating there again as i can then move the seat forward by 2-3'. The good thing is there should be almost zero expense as we are removing vs making new.


----------



## NBPk402

Update: I have relocated the screen, but was only able to move back a foot as there was not as much room behind as I had thought. I also started to make some new stackable amp racks. They are made out of 4"x6"s, and a 2' square piece of 1/2" Maple plywood. These should have more than enough strength for the new speakers to sit on.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Here are some pics of the screen in the up position, and what I have so far on the amp racks.




















Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Yesterday we finished the 1st Synergy speaker... Just have a couple of spots to putty, paint, and then tune. I have some work to get the theater ready for this speaker before I bring it home...finish the new equipment stands is the biggie. I am going to be listing my amps, Dirac, Anamorphic lens, and Projector for sale.


----------



## Prof.

Sounds like someone will be getting new gear.!?


----------



## NBPk402

Prof. said:


> Sounds like someone will be getting new gear.!?


We are building 3 new front channel full range speakers (synergy 2 ways), and a 14 channel IcePower amp. The amp will provide 50wpc for the front horns, 125wpc to the woofers (front 3 channels), provide 125wpc to the 4 surround and 4 Atmos channels with 2 extra channels to spare (not sure if i will make the amp a 16 channel or just leave 1 50pch. and 1 125wpc disconnected. I have been wanting a 4K projector... I am hoping i can swing enough to get a E-Shift 4K projector that has plenty of lumens.


----------



## NBPk402

Today i got one double high rack completed...all I need to do now is let the paint dry, and see if there are any touch ups required. I will be making one more identical to this one (these are for the left and right channels), and then I will make a double wide version for the center channel support/equipment. I will post up some pics of the new rack tomorrow. I did make one small change, when I put them together, I found out they are not coming back apart as the clearances are so tight.


----------



## Prof.

ellisr63 said:


> We are building 3 new front channel full range speakers (synergy 2 ways), and a 14 channel IcePower amp. The amp will provide 50wpc for the front horns, 125wpc to the woofers (front 3 channels), provide 125wpc to the 4 surround and 4 Atmos channels with 2 extra channels to spare (not sure if i will make the amp a 16 channel or just leave 1 50pch. and 1 125wpc disconnected. I have been wanting a 4K projector... I am hoping i can swing enough to get a E-Shift 4K projector that has plenty of lumens.


All I can say is WOW!!


----------



## NBPk402

Here is a couple of shots of one of the amp rack/speaker stands that i have completed so far (just needs a little fine touch up on the paint).





Question: Would it be ok to have the horns painted blue, and the cabinet black...or would that cause reflections behind the AT screen?


----------



## Prof.

If the horns were blue I think you would see them behind the screen..


----------



## NBPk402

Prof. said:


> If the horns were blue I think you would see them behind the screen..


I guess I will paint the horns black, and the cabinet blue then. :T


----------



## chrapladm

You can always have some blue downlights that can be turned brighter when not viewing. Looks great I think.


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> You can always have some blue downlights that can be turned brighter when not viewing. Looks great I think.


What I want to do is have lights behind the screen that could be turned on when not viewing a movie...to show off the speakers, and amp racks as a shadow. I remember going to a IMax Theater, and loved the look of seeing all the equipment behind the screen.


----------



## chrapladm

YUP thats what I was thinking also. Great minds..... 

And where is the rest of the info and opinions on the SH's you built?


----------



## NBPk402

chrapladm said:


> YUP thats what I was thinking also. Great minds.....
> 
> And where is the rest of the info and opinions on the SH's you built?


I have one horn completed now...just need to do a couple of putty fills, and paint it. I am getting ready to build a 14-16 channel IcePower amp with 2 MiniDSP 2x4s built in. Once I get the one completed horn done...my friend and I will get the last 2 built. This should go much quicker as we both know what has to be done. I can't wait to hear it with a proper crossover, and in my HT, but right now the system is torn down while I am trying to sell off equipment to fund a new projector, and pay bills.


----------



## chrapladm

Ah I see. I have about 5 months until I can start my SH. BUT I so look forward to it. I will only be building one to be used as a center channel. Then if everything else goes well I will look at building more for the L/R. I looked at using a DBX preamp or possibly built in Xo when its time for it. Probably use a QSC PLD 4.3 for the amp.

I look forward in seeing your results with the minidsp. I still have one some where collecting dust.


----------



## Owen Bartley

ellisr63 said:


> What I want to do is have lights behind the screen that could be turned on when not viewing a movie...to show off the speakers, and amp racks as a shadow. I remember going to a IMax Theater, and loved the look of seeing all the equipment behind the screen.


i love this effect too. I've been considering adding it to my room, if I'm not lost in other details at the time.

OK, I'm not a "horn guy" so please excuse my ignorance... but do the woofers just fire into those 2 little holes each? And I assume a tweeter goes in the central hole? I just have no idea how these things work, but you're doing a great job on the construction.

I say you can paint them blue, just don't go with a bright electric blue... it would have to be somewhat dark. You could always test some samples if you have your screen material already. Some are more transparent than others. I think it would look really cool to have the speaker black except the mouth of the horn, which would be blue. I would guess that a medium blue wouldn't look much different than black through the screen, at least if it wasn't lit directly from behind.


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> i love this effect too. I've been considering adding it to my room, if I'm not lost in other details at the time.
> 
> OK, I'm not a "horn guy" so please excuse my ignorance... but do the woofers just fire into those 2 little holes each? And I assume a tweeter goes in the central hole? I just have no idea how these things work, but you're doing a great job on the construction.
> 
> I say you can paint them blue, just don't go with a bright electric blue... it would have to be somewhat dark. You could always test some samples if you have your screen material already. Some are more transparent than others. I think it would look really cool to have the speaker black except the mouth of the horn, which would be blue. I would guess that a medium blue wouldn't look much different than black through the screen, at least if it wasn't lit directly from behind.


Yes the woofer only fires through the 4 ports in the horn, and then a compression driver goes in the center hole. Some people used coaxials for the center instead of a compression driver, but i already had my drivers before i started. 
That's a great idea. I will paint the cabinet blue, and also the front edge of the horn blue with the horn getting painted black. :T


----------



## Owen Bartley

This is just a quick Photoshop to see what they might look like...


_Edit:I 'm not sure why the image isn't showing._


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> This is just a quick Photoshop to see what they might look like...
> 
> 
> _Edit:I 'm not sure why the image isn't showing._


That is just like i was hoping they would look. Later this week i will be moving the racks behind the screen... I will put one table on it's side and see if the color effects the picture any, just to make sure.


----------



## phillihp23

Owen Bartley said:


> This is just a quick Photoshop to see what they might look like...
> 
> 
> _Edit:I 'm not sure why the image isn't showing._


Must not have enough post's yet....:surprise: :rofl:


----------



## Lumen

LOL!


----------



## Owen Bartley

Lol, I'd better hit the post padding thread! 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> Lol, I'd better hit the post padding thread!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


I wonder if it posts as an attachment because you used TapaTalk?


----------



## NorthSky

Test only:


----------



## Owen Bartley

ellisr63 said:


> I wonder if it posts as an attachment because you used TapaTalk?


I actually posted that directly to the site from a PC. it seems to show up OK now, so I guess back to the regularly scheduled show! 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> I actually posted that directly to the site from a PC. it seems to show up OK now, so I guess back to the regularly scheduled show!
> 
> Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


I was able to see it all along, but as an attachment.


----------



## NBPk402

I just ordered a BenQ ht941 for the ht...4000 lumens which should be plenty (25FL). I also ordered 2 MINIDSP 2x4s, and 4 more amp modules. Saturday I hope to have the center channel (double wide) rack also completed. Next will be getting the room ready for the new projector. I might even keep the anamorphic lens for a while longer. I will hopefully get the center channel speaker home this next week, and also maybe start on the new amp (the donor amp should be here early next week so we can decide if we can fix it and sell it or gut it and use it for my new build).

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Amp is gutted now. I am trying to find out what to use as standoffs for all the amp boards now. I also have all 3 racks completed, and installed now. I need to finish one more half height one for my Monster 7000, media player, PC, and UPS. This looks 100% cleaner than the old setup. I should be bringing the center channel home later this week, and painting it before I tune the first one. Hopefully in the next month I will have the other 2 speakers completed, as well as the new amp build.

As far as work on the HT, I am just going to clean it up, and finish a few things, as we are planning on selling the house before the end of the year. My next HT will hopefully be bigger, but I will not be going all out on room construction next time. The plan is next HT will just have paint, first reflection panels, bass traps. We will take all my equipment except the screen to the new home. Eventually I would like to have all synergy (DIY) horns for surround and Atmos, but these speaker would require good engineering to have 250lb speakers hanging from the ceiling. The only way I can see this is if we have an attic over the HT.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

I have the new BenQ MH941 projector installed, but I need to move it forward 4-5' more to get the image down to a size that fits my screen. It is more than bright enough (rated at 4000 lumens from 19'), but with my current room, I can't use the Anamorphic Lens with it because the throw will only be 14'6" vs 19' of my AE8000. When I move the projector to 14'6" ProjectorCentral says the FL will rize from 25FL to over 50FL!


----------



## Prof.

I hope you've got some good sunglasses!..:laugh2:


----------



## NBPk402

I figure I should be able to tune it down to maybe the 30FLs...


----------



## NorthSky

Ron, why a BenQ projector and why not an Epson, Optoma, Sony, or a JVC one? 

Is it mainly for the size of your screen and requiring lots of light intensity?

By the way, last night I watched 'Nocturnal Animals'. That was very twisted and disturbing, even painful in some scenes. 
Totally different than say...'Pitch Perfect'. I prefer the later, it's more enjoyable, fun, pleasant, heart warming, musically involving, fresh, young, optimistic, gracious, peaceful, harmonious, liberating, ...all that great jazz. ...Or 'Whiplash' ... the drum movie. ...Or 'Birdman' ... the other drum movie. 

What did you watch recently, anything spiritually and heartily uplifting, movie for the soul of a man, a woman and a child?


----------



## NBPk402

NorthSky said:


> Ron, why a BenQ projector and why not an Epson, Optoma, Sony, or a JVC one?
> 
> Is it mainly for the size of your screen and requiring lots of light intensity?
> 
> By the way, last night I watched 'Nocturnal Animals'. That was very twisted and disturbing, even painful in some scenes.
> Totally different than say...'Pitch Perfect'. I prefer the later, it's more enjoyable, fun, pleasant, heart warming, musically involving, fresh, young, optimistic, gracious, peaceful, harmonious, liberating, ...all that great jazz. ...Or 'Whiplash' ... the drum movie. ...Or 'Birdman' ... the other drum movie.
> 
> What did you watch recently, anything spiritually and heartily uplifting, movie for the soul of a man, a woman and a child?


I went this way to get much more Lumens. I was around 7Fl with the AE8000s, and I have over 20FL right now. On ce i move the projector to it's proper location it will be very bright, but I plan on going into the settings to turn it down by calibrating it. The other brands were too much for me to spend at this time, plus if I was to get a 4K projector i could not afford to get one that is bright enough.

I also was not a fan of Nocturnal Animals.

I haven't watched much of anything lately as my HT has no amplifiers, no front channel speakers, and the screen is not setup yet. I hope to have one of the new speakers home this weekend to tune, and the other 2 in a month or so. The amplifier i would hope is done in a couple of weeks.


----------



## NorthSky

But there is still a TV in your wife's livingroom.  

I rated 'Nocturnal Animals' just on the edge of borderline (66), with a special note: Not for everyone. 

That's what I thought; more lumens from the BenQ and good value. 

* Once in a while I read over to that new site you made me aware of a while back. 
I almost registered few times, and just few days ago I was just about to, everything's ready, and in the last second; I'll wait some more.
There is a strong emphasis on front projectors; I like that.
Also, as you well know, and what got me very close to register are . . . the movies. 
That's what reunites the people the most, and the music.

Cheers,


----------



## willis7469

ellisr63 said:


> I went this way to get much more Lumens. I.



Hey, just PM him. See what I did there...?


----------



## NBPk402

LOL

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## NorthSky

willis7469 said:


> Hey, just PM him. See what I did there...?


Are you Bruce's related?


----------



## willis7469

NorthSky said:


> Are you Bruce's related?




Hi north sky. Unfortunately the answer is no.(assuming you mean Bruce Willis). If I were though, I'd be living in sunny California making movies with uncle Bruce!!!


----------



## NorthSky

Yes, Bruce Willis of course.


----------



## NBPk402

A little update...One speaker is now completed. A friend of mine helped me haul it into the theater after the paint dried. I still need to touch the paint edges up, but it is ready to me placed on its stand and tuned as soon as I get the new amp built. Does anyone have a suggestion as to what to put between the rack, and the speaker to prevent slipping, and also allow rotating the 200lb speaker without scratching the speaker or stand?




















Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## Owen Bartley

Wow, that looks amazing. I think I've seen people use neoprene material from ebay as a cushion with good results. 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

I had even thought of using the coasters for moving your furniture, but I was afraid they might move on there own when watching a movie.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## chrapladm

That thing is huge. I was thinking it would be smaller. Mine was going to be slightly larger than that but 3way.


----------



## NBPk402

Yes they are definitely big, but the size of the cabinet is pretty much the same size as the Klipsch k402 horn. I looked at a 3 way, but felt that since I loved the 2 way setup I had...I would try a 2 way Synergy horn too. Another consideration was that I am crossing over at 400-500hz which is right where I was crossing over at before. If I had different drivers a 3 way might have been needed, but the EV DH1A is good to 350hz.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## chrapladm

Oh ya keep forgetting you were using that CD.


----------



## NBPk402

Yup, pretty hard to beat a $100 EV DH1A compression driver in a 2 way setup. My friend is running the same driver in a small horn with La Scala bass bin, and his sound great too.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## chrapladm

Great find. What were you using for Xo?


----------



## NBPk402

I used a MINIDSP 2x4 for a while, then I used a xilica xp3060, then the MINIDSP 88. On my new build I will be using a pair of MINIDSP 2x4s built into my 14 channel icepower amp.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## chrapladm

So no hiss problems?

I am not a fan of the Mini on highly sensative speakers. BUT I am looking at (budget friendly)options as I build my rig.


----------



## NBPk402

The 2x4 is good, but I would not use the balanced version, as it is noisier than the unbalanced version.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## Owen Bartley

ellisr63 said:


> The 2x4 is good, but I would not use the balanced version, as it is noisier than the unbalanced version.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


Is that because of the higher voltage output? I'm debating which way to go for my subs, and I know there are pros and cons for each. 

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

Owen Bartley said:


> Is that because of the higher voltage output? I'm debating which way to go for my subs, and I know there are pros and cons for each.
> 
> Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


I don't know, but I do know I sold it because the hiss was horrible. With the 2x4 UNbalanced there was a little bit of hiss. I will let you know how the hiss is when we get the amp built. I am keeping my fingers crossed that i will have either zero hiss or very low. One thing for sure is the only noise in the room (other than sound from the speakers) will be the projector for the first time since i sold the stack of Yamaha P2500s amps (I really miss them).


----------



## chrapladm

Was just looking at some Yamaha amps for the future. I am not sure they are silent though as these are the PX series or whatever they are called. The P2500 and others are known to be almost silent which would be a god thing for the future.

The Mini's have always been great for subs but not always for high sensativity speakers.


----------



## NBPk402

My 4 channel Yamaha has fans constantly on. The p2500s, p7000s both had fans, but they never came on. You can't get any quieter than that. 

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## willis7469

ellisr63 said:


> My 4 channel Yamaha has fans constantly on. The p2500s, p7000s both had fans, but they never came on. You can't get any quieter than that.
> 
> Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk




Yessir! My 2500 is dead silent. Love it. 
Speaker looks really cool Ron. It's gonna look cool when you back light the screen. 

I think Owen mentioned some neoprene from eBay, which could work I think. I got some of this hydro turf for the swim deck of my boat. 
HYDRO-TURF SHT40MD-GY Mat Sheet (Ride Mat Material) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B007GRFFPU/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_.xSTybJ3NB9G3

Maybe a sheet of rubber like a mud flap from a semi/straight truck would have less tendency to compress over time. Maybe it wouldn't matter?
Anyways, looking good.


----------



## Lumen

You don't need to hear it from me, but I just have to say, "Admirable work, Ron!" Love the shade of blue. Does it have a name?


----------



## NBPk402

Lumen said:


> You don't need to hear it from me, but I just have to say, "Admirable work, Ron!" Love the shade of blue. Does it have a name?


It was a Benjamin Moore W627.


----------



## NBPk402

I am currently waiting on the rear panel to be made for the new amp...should be ready in a couple of weeks for me to start assembling it. Once I get that done I can get the new speaker setup, and tuned.

Right now my HT is going through some changes as we will be putting the house up for sale soon. We will be buying or building a new home with a new home theater, and pond. The theater will be built, and may not be a room within a room, but the plan is to go a bit bigger on the room so I can I can possibly use my diy synergy horns for all channels including atmos. We will see how the sale goes on our current house as that will determine our budget for the new home. The only changes in equipment I currently forsee is a possible curved at screen, 4k projector, and more diy speakers. We currently have a Epson 3700 projector, and I plan on having that for at least a year or two before going 4k due to my need for high a lumen projector.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------



## Owen Bartley

ellisr63 said:


> The theater will be built, and may not be a room within a room, but the plan is to go a bit bigger on the room *so I can I can possibly use my diy synergy horns for all channels including atmos.*


I have no response except "DO IT."  

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

This is a pic of the 16 channel Elan gutted amp, with the Icepower amp modules, minidsp 2x4s, and power supply (for the minidsps). The amp modules, and minidsp will be mounted to individual aluminum brackets bent 90 degrees, and attached to the case through the vented bottom plate. I still need to drill the holes, and bend the brackets. The top of the amp will be a piece of 1/4" thick plexiglass. Hopefully this will be completed in the next month. Then I will start to tune the Synergy speakers.

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk


----------



## NBPk402

I have started a new thread with our potential new home theater... I am currently dismantling the Negatron HT.

Sent from my SM-T550 using Tapatalk


----------

