# Home Theatre guidance



## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

Hello everyone! So I've been contemplating on buying a new home theater system for a while now ever since I bought my 40" samsung lcd hdtv. My old home theater system's dvd player doesn't work with the new tv anymore since it doesn't have any hdmi ports and no upscaling so the outcome is horrible using composite obviously and all the speakers etc go into the back of my dvd player so I think i'm sol. Now I'm trying to buy a good system for under say 800 bucks...now granted most of you are probably spending something in the 1000's + but I'm just a college student looking for something really good for my price for movies and my xbox. The reason I'm here is because I can't decide whether or not I should just go and buy separate parts here and there and make up my own home theater or if I should just go ahead and buy a home theater in a box. People tell me to stay away from those, but I have no clue! And should I get one that has an amp in it? Does it make a difference? I'm so lost ... I've seen some good deals on stuff like onkyo at some websites like newegg etc. My room also is pretty small. My bed is only around 7 feet away from the TV and i was to estimate i would say my room is something like 11' X 11' (not too sure). I live in Tallahassee which is a small city so there aren't really any good places to go check them out except for retail stores like best buy....etc and the advice forum said to pretty much avoid that... I know my question is really vague, but if I can get some advice or pointers I'd greatly appreciate it!

-Raz


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

Welcome, Raz. of course, your budget will determine what you can buy. There are some pretty good HTIB out there, which will save you some money. If you go separates, you might want to look at some of the used forums for higher dollar equipment at a lower price. Have fun. Dennis


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi Raz, Welcome to the Shack.

I understand your situation. Let me give you some reading first. Have a look here as to why you should not go with a HTIB system.

Going with separate components as money allows will give you a much better system. for $800 your going to get a decent receiver but it leaves out getting good speakers and a sub. is there any possibility of upping your budget?


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Welcome to the Shack,...
I'd say do your own system. The big money grubber will be a Blu-ray player. 
If you plan to stick with a SD DVD then here is an example of what you could put together.
Onkyo and Infinity make for a nice entry level system and add a Dayton sub and Sony DVD. That would be right around $800 excluding taxes and shipping. Course if you're patient you could probably find deals with free shipping or close outs, sales etc.


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## paints (Feb 3, 2008)

Hey Raz!!

Your budget is about where mine is. If you don't mind refurbished. Check them out. I did and ended up with the Onkyo 706 for around $400. But look around at all the brands. Each one in that price range all has their own little perks. For me it was the 4 HDMI repeatable and 1 out route that grabbed me (THX certified with the full range of Dolby's and Tru-HD also didn't hurt). But if you only need 2...you can find those a bit cheaper. However I wouldn't get less than 3 HDMI if your planning on blu-ray, hi-def cable, and X-box. If you do go refurb. Check out how much warranty you can extend on them. I'm cheap and just stuck with the one-year warranty. I figure if it's gonna go. It'll go in the 1st year. But most of the people I've read about on refurb's haven't had any problems. Tough call, but you can get bigger bang for the buck this route.

Boom! The receiver's gonna eat half your budget.

Speakers, I'm no help. If your in a hurry (like I am). Read up in speaker forum on the Yambekas. For your room. A 5.1 system is probably gonna get ya by. The Yambekas have a good price and some of the members here have given it good reviews.

Or just take your time on the speakers, pick out a killer set, and buy as you can afford them. 

Then there's the sub.

Whoops...your gonna go over $800 at this point.

So depending on what receiver you get. Is probably gonna make or break your set budget.

Look around and figure out what you need and then trying squeeing your budget from there.

Good luck!


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

Thank you for all your comments and thanks for the welcome. Most receivers I think have just the ports for speakers etc if I could find one that has the mini Ethernet cables (I don't know what you call them) then I would be able to use my old system and just worry about that and slowly change/upgrade as I go. 

tonyvdb, I technically can make my budget higher, but if I am able to get what I want under my $800 or so (before or after tax doesn't matter) then I would be happier. 

paints I will have a look at refurbished and see if I can find something I like.

As for blu-ray I don't think I will be getting into that at the moment I am still fine with normal dvd's...or if not I'll probably just buy a ps3 eventually lol

I think my main problem is the fact that I am not so knowledgeable about surround sound. For instance, everyone seems to tell me that the receiver is the most important part. My old system did not even have a receiver or if it did it was like part of my dvd player or something. I have a really nooby question and please don't burn me at the stake for this lol...but is the receiver the same thing as an amp?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

RaZmAn said:


> Most receivers I think have just the ports for speakers etc if I could find one that has the mini Ethernet cables (


Not sure what you mean here?



> I think my main problem is the fact that I am not so knowledgeable about surround sound. For instance, everyone seems to tell me that the receiver is the most important part. My old system did not even have a receiver or if it did it was like part of my dvd player or something. I have a really nooby question and please don't burn me at the stake for this lol...but is the receiver the same thing as an amp?


Dont worry, all of us started the way you are and had to learn by asking questions. 
A receiver is the "heart" of the system as it houses all the amps for all 7 speakers as well as electronics that switch video, process the audio and controls the volume.
For a receiver I recommend the Onkyo 706 for $611. I know this eats up a fair bit of your budget but its necessary if you want quality.
For speakers have a look at Yambika audio for $299 thats about as good as you can get for the price, is only 5 speakers but for starters that all you need.
You will then need to save up for a subwoofer I recommend the SVS PB10NSD at $429.

I realize these are all from internet direct companies but you save a lot of cash going this route over buying in a store.

You will have to buy a DVD or BluRay player on top of theses items to complete your system as well.


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

The receiver is a multichannel amp that has the electronics in it to decode surround signals and send them to each individual speaker. Most receivers are adequate to meet your needs, but, do some research. You might want to visit both the Dobly (http://www.dolby.com/index.html) and THX (http://thx.com/) websites to read about 5.1 surround info. Have fun. Dennis


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

RaZmAn said:


> I think my main problem is the fact that I am not so knowledgeable about surround sound.


Don't worry about that, we all started off there and there are plenty of good folks here that are happy to help you.



RaZmAn said:


> For instance, everyone seems to tell me that the receiver is the most important part.


Depends, many people feel the display is the most important, some feel the sub-woofer is, some the receiver,... Me, I think the speakers are the most important. As for the receiver, well, it's an electronic device and every couple years they seem to get new features; Dolby Pro Logic, S-Video, Component Video, Pro Logic II, DVI, HDMI, Audyssey EQ, YPAO, RS-232, USB, Satellite, Bluetooth, IPOD, ethernet, DTS-HD, Dolby True-HD and on and on and on :sweat:. Point being, good quality speakers will be around for many years, the receiver will be one of the first things you'll likely upgrade due to some feature or other that will soon be introduced. So starting off with an inexpensive receiver is not necessarily a bad thing.
But then, that's just my opinion :bigsmile:

In the end, it really depends on you, what your priorities are and what your budget is.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Considering your room size and budget constraints, here is something else that may work for you.

Yamaha RXV465 receiver
Yamaha DVD w/HDMI
Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Entertainment System 
Closer to $900, there are lots of options


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

Welcome! You've gotten some good advice from others. I have a few thoughts given your budget constraints.

I agree with going with a DVD player that upscales and has HDMI. Even on my 8' front projection screen, a high quality DVD upscaled can look amazingly good. When you have more money, definately get a PS3. It's amazing!

I also suggest you get an off the air HD tuner (eg http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=210-172). Tallahassee should have all the major networks as well as a PBS station. Nature, Masterpiece Theater and other PBS HD programs are amazing. The signal quality is actually better than the same content over cable or satellite, because it is not compressed. Now that stations have gone digital, my wife and I are seriously considering cancelling satellite service. Between OTA and Netflix, we get all the content we need!

Here's a suggested system for you:
Yamaha DVD HDMI Player - $90
Onkyo TX-SR506 7.1 Receiver - $ 212
Winegard HD Tuner - $160
Ascend HTM-200SE L/C/R - $400
Total: $862

The Ascends are amazing little speakers (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html). I have them for my back surrounds. I only priced L/C/R because of budget. Adding surronds would add another $200.

You'll also want to add a subwoofer later. Right now one would bust your budget. For your space, you could consider one in the $300 range.

Doug


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

wow you guys are awesome. Thank you all so much for your comments and advice and suggestions. I greatly appreciate all your help!



tonyvdb said:


> Not sure what you mean here?


Well like for instance my current speaker cables are connected to the dvd player via cables (such as an ethernet network cable except it's smaller and thinner)...and the other side that hooks up to the speaker is just the copper end with strings coming out that you put into a snap on thingy behind the speaker.....whereas majority of the cables used for new speakers just have that normal output like a pin (I would post pics but it won't let me due to spam restrictions for noobs!) and this is what all receivers so far i've seen handle which makes my old speaker system totally useless. (Correct me if I'm wrong).





nova said:


> Considering your room size and budget constraints, here is something else that may work for you.
> Yamaha DVD w/HDMI[/URL]
> Energy 5.1 Take Classic Home Entertainment System[/URL]
> Closer to $900, there are lots of options


The yamaha you pointed out is only 1080i and my tv is 1080p so should I not try to get a dvd player that is 1080p? Also that 5.1 system you showed me looks really nice, but I had a question regarding it. It only mentioned that the sub is 200 watts. What about the speakers? Or is this something you can control using the receiver? I used to be obsessed with wattage, but after learning more I realized that a system of 400 watts can sound way better than one at 1000.




DougMac said:


> I also suggest you get an off the air HD tuner .


WOw are you serious? If this is what I think it is..then it is amazing. I am so sick of watching regular cable on my tv since it doesn't look that great...but after reading this I have to wonder how this is legal? Aren't you just picking up airwaves you didn't pay for? This is ok? Or do you still have to have some sort of cable package from your cable provider? I'm just curious  I was contemplating on getting a comcast HD package, but if this will get me the same thing w/o having to pay monthly then I'm in..

Also those ascends you showed me look really sweet. That seems to be the new design everyone is coming out with. One question I had about that 7.1 receiver is....if my receiver is 7.1 it doesn't mean I HAVE to buy 7 speakers right? It just means that is its max?


One thing I wanted to make sure on....the receiver is what everything plugs into so my tv, my xbox, my dvd player would all hook up to the receiver via hdmi cables and my speakers and sub would connect to it using their own cables. Is this correct? My 2nd question is, does it really matter what kind of hdmi cable? I bought the philips cables (gold plated..) from walmart for 30 bucks, but I've been told that the $120 monster hdmi cables are not that much better if even noticeable. Now that was advice given to me in regards to video. How much does it differ when we are talking about audio? Because if I have to buy 3 separate HDMI cables that can get pricey too. I also have a friend who works at best buy who can get me the 80 dollar rocket fish hdmi cables for 10 bucks...i've never heard of that company but apparently it's like a best buy version of monster cable? lol


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## paints (Feb 3, 2008)

If your only wanting to use HDMI. Make sure your receiver is repeatable. Some are only pass through and you'll need to use an optical cable for your audio. I'd also look at making sure your receiver supports 1.3 HDMI.

7.1 Receivers also will do 5.1 systems. Just make sure whatever receiver you get. You read the manual on which back outputs to use for 5.1.

And the off air HD tuner if I understand Doug correctly is just for for your local channels (need HD antennae). I may be wrong...but it won't get you free HD cable. You'll need to subscribe to your cable company and get an HD cable receiver.

Nova's probably on the right track. Good speakers will last ya a long time. But make sure your receiver will drive all the toys you want for your system.

Take your time. Figure out your needs and piece it together. You'll probably suffer from paralysis of analysis (I did). But your bound to run into deals if you go slowly rather than rush out and get it all at once.

Have fun!


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

RaZmAn,
Here's some clarifications.
The OTA HD receiver I discussed just picks up broadcast TV. I think I confused the issue by mentioning giving up satellite. If I gave up satellite, I'd give up all the channels such as HGTV, FX, the Weather Channel, HBO, etc. A survey of our viewing habits shows we're paying a lot (>$70/month) for very little return. 90% of our viewing is either broadcast TV (PBS had a great show on Marvin Gaye last night) or Netflix movies). There are 6 OTA TV stations in Tallahassee covering all the major networks, these are what you'd get.

Yes, 1080p would be optimum, but it comes at a price and that price just for the receiver could consume your entire budget. It could be argued that on most content you wouldn't be able to seed the difference, especically on upscaled DVD content.

"I also have a friend who works at best buy who can get me the 80 dollar rocket fish hdmi cables for 10 bucks..." That pretty much sums up the secret to high priced cables, it's mostly, if not entirely markup. This is especially true when you're sending digital signals (HDMI). It's pretty much "go" or "no go". There are special situations, such as extremely long runs, where you have to be concerned, but not in your situation. Buy your cables from Parts Express or monoprice.com. I have a 25 foot HDMI cable from my receiver to my projector that I bought from monoprice that works great. I think it costs $40 and that's because of its length. Do not, under any circumstance, purchase any Monster Cables product. They are an evil company (http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry-news/blue-jeans-strikes-back).

When you get closer to your final decision, we can help with what cables you need.

BTW, the nice thing about the Yamaha RXV465BL that someone recommended is that it has 4 HDMI ins and sound calibration. It looks like a nice receiver.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

Thank you for your response. Thanks to you guys my knowledge is ever increasing and I feel like (even though still a noob) I have a way better understanding of everything. One more thing I was wondering is, someone mentioned something about a pass-through hdmi on a receiver. I think I know what that means but can someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Say for instance i have a xbox, tv, and dvd player hooked up to receiver via 3 hdmi cables. Pass through means I can only have one hdmi cord working at a time? Is there a disadvantage to that? I don't really get it because if I play a movie out of my dvd player then does that mean I will only get video and audio out of the tv and none through the receiver?

Currently I watch most of my dvd's off of my xbox or I stream xvids from my laptop to the xbox. I can use the xbox adaptor that enables me to use an optical cable but then I won't be able to use hdmi anymore since the optical port is only there if I use the component cables adaptor. I don't know how much better hdmi is than component but i'm sure it makes a difference. 

you mentioned that 1080p would consume my entire budget but i was only talking about the dvd player itself. 1080p dvd player upscaled are only like 80 bucks or so, but I see that you might be talking about the receiver being able to handle 1080p?? I was not aware that receivers also had to be 1080p compliant. It is starting to make more sense now.


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## DougMac (Jan 24, 2008)

RaZmAn said:


> ...someone mentioned something about a pass-through hdmi on a receiver. I think I know what that means but can someone correct me if I'm wrong?
> 
> Say for instance i have a xbox, tv, and dvd player hooked up to receiver via 3 hdmi cables. Pass through means I can only have one hdmi cord working at a time?


I believe pass through as used by the prior poster is what I consider a common use for the term. It means that the receiver can send a video signal *totally unaltered* from your source (BD, DVD Player, Cable box, etc.) to your display. There are some good reasons to look for this feature.

Here's an example. I have a PS3 and its upconversion is well regarded, some think it's about the best there is. I have a 720p projector. I set my PS3 to upconvert standard DVD's to 720p. I then hook the HDMI cable from the PS3 to the receiver, then hook the HDMI out cable to my projector. Since I've already upconverted, I want the receiver to just pass the signal through to the projector. Now, if I had a TV or projector that did a great job of upconverting, I'd want the PS3 (or whatever DVD player) to send out a signal in native resolution, pass it through the receiver and let the TV or projector upconvert. 

If I had a really great (read expensive) receiver that was renowned for it's upconversion, then I'd send a native signal from the source to the receiver and let it upconvert before passing the signal to the display.

If you get a receiver that offers HDMI passthrough, it will still capture the audio portion of the signal, process it and send it to your speakers.

Doug


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

If for example there is this product: Yamaha RX-V363BL 500 Watt 5.1-Channel Home Theater Receiver

It says 500 watts. If my speakers have a total of say 1000 watts, does this mean that only 500 will be used since the receiver is only 500 watts?


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## drdoan (Aug 30, 2006)

The wattage rating of the speakers is the limit the speakers can take before damage will occur. It has nothing to do with the amount of power the amp can produce. You will not be listening to 500 watts! Most material will fall into the 5-50 watt level, with some peaks above that. As long as you don't play distorted passages at loud levels, you will be fine. I believe that receiver has about 100 watts per channel with 500 being the combined total output. Dennis


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

I love a good challenge :devil: Let's keep in mind tax and shipping costs - that's where Amazon really shines.


For the LCR, I'd look to the Boston Acoustics Classic series. You can get some decent floorstandersxand a center channelxfor a total of ~$442 shipped from Amazon.com. Boston always put out good performance for the dollar, I think you'd be hard pressed to top this LCR in this range. 

That said, go with something really cheap for your surrounds in a starter system, that's where you can cut corners the most. These Sony bookshelves Sony bookshleves are about as cheap as I could find without delving into satellite territory. This brings you up to ~$492.

This Sony receiverSony receiver is about as inexpensive as you can get while maintaining the bare essentials. 5 x 100 watts, HDMI switching, and ~18lbs for $155 shipped is tough to beat. Now you're up to ~$647.

The subwoofer that screams decent performance on a budget is the Dayton ported 12". At $155 and tuned ~25hz, I doubt there is anything competitive. Now you're up to ~$847, as shipping probably costs close to $50.

I've read that this Toshiba upconverting dvd playerToshiba upconverting dvd player is pretty decent, and a great deal at $82.50 shipped. 

This brings you to a grand total of $929.50 shipped. All you'd need to add are a few cables from Monoprice.com and you're all set for under $1000. The speakers in this system, inlcuding the sub, should be very good for this price range - if you wanted to upgrade one of the areas, I'd maybe spend a bit more on a receiver myself. If you step up to the ~$300 range, you can get a better amp section.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

Greetings....

Just a FYI...semester is almost over and I am about to get some more money which means I can finally start buying my system (I am projecting to start buying beginning of may cuz then I'll be totally free and have time for it)

Totally off topic but have you guys ever heard of these speakers? 

http://www.sounddistributors.com/bu...rid=516&crid=63&cat_name=Home+Theater+Systems

I'm not sure if it's ok to post such links so I'm sorry in advance....but someone just showed it to me and I was just wondering ..I know it would make my budget way over but I was just curious 

Also what about these: http://www.vocopro.com/products/product_info.php?ID=113

I am for some reason getting into those floor standing speakers...they have an appeal to me...I just don't know anything about the specs and etc :|


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

That type of link is fine,... helps us all to see what you're talking about. :bigsmile:

I have not heard the BIC's, but there are many posts from people who have heard and/or purchased them. As I recall they were pretty much all positive. They seem to be an excellent value for the dollar spent, especially the Sub, the BIC H-100 which is very often recommended as one of the best value subs around. I believe Dr. Hsu had a hand in the design of it.


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## punman (Feb 21, 2009)

I got a Harman-Kardon AVR 146 on sale in the fall for $270. I'm not saying you have to buy that one but there are some deals out there. I may upgrade later but it is working with my plasma TV and 5.1 system just fine.
On the speaker side of things:
Buy two front speakers now for $500 and add a center, etc. later when you can afford it.
If you buy a $500 package (in-a- box) and want to upgrade in a year, there is $500 wasted.
I bought piece-by-piece over six months and saved money because I watched for sales of each stereo type (surrounds would be on sale one week, etc.)
Just make sure you when you buy the fronts, that you like the company's center and surrounds (and be sure that they make centers and surrounds).


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

punman said:


> I got a Harman-Kardon AVR 146 on sale in the fall for $270. I'm not saying you have to buy that one but there are some deals out there. I may upgrade later but it is working with my plasma TV and 5.1 system just fine.
> On the speaker side of things:
> Buy two front speakers now for $500 and add a center, etc. later when you can afford it.
> If you buy a $500 package (in-a- box) and want to upgrade in a year, there is $500 wasted.
> ...


I really like this suggestion. It makes a lot of sense...and I think I will be able to go ahead and do that soon. I figure a receiver, 2 fronts, and a sub will be ok for now? And later I can add center and the other 2 hmmm

Also for the receiver I should make sure it has hdmi pass through right? Or was it repeatable that I'm supposed to be getting.. And I think 3 ports would suffice? I only have an xbox and will have an xvid upconvert dvd player...

The Harman-Kardon AVR 146 apparently requires an additional audio cable cuz it doesn't take audio from the hdmi?? Is this normal for all receivers?


Also for the subs, what would you guys suggest? (Keep in mind my budget is approx $1000 total for everything):

http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm

http://www.hometheatershack.com/ele..._HT_Series_12_150_Watt_Powered_Subwoofer.html

or

http://acousticsounddesign-amazon.com/Bic-Acoustech-H100-Powered-Subwoofer/M/B0006DNW6U.htm


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## punman (Feb 21, 2009)

Yes - the AVR 146 requires an extra cable for audio. Sure a bit of a pain but less than $10 for an RCA cable - or $20 for a digital coax cable but I don't hear any difference. Cheaper receivers are like that. I'd imagine the $800 ones put the audio through on the same cable. I assume the sound ends up the same though.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

RaZmAn said:


> Also for the subs, what would you guys suggest? (Keep in mind my budget is approx $1000 total for everything):
> 
> http://www.svsound.com/products-sub-box-10nsd.cfm
> 
> ...


Can someone advise me please?


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## paints (Feb 3, 2008)

Hey Raz...

Check out the PA120. I just got mine last week and I'm still drooling.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

paints said:


> Hey Raz...
> 
> Check out the PA120. I just got mine last week and I'm still drooling.


where did you buy it from and what did it cost? You are talking about premier acoustic 120 right? Is that guy on ebay the only distributor?


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## paints (Feb 3, 2008)

http://www.hometheatershack.com/electronics-retailer/index.php?k=Premier+Acoustic+PA-120+&c=blended

It's the same price at the Shack as it is on fleabay or anywhere else I've seen it. There is a thread on it and another fella even built a riser for it if you look in the subwoofer thread.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

I think it's pretty hard to beat SVS unless you build your own.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

I was able to increase my budget to $1300 instead of the original 800. 

A month and a bit ago tonyvdb suggested i get the "Onkyo 706 for $611". I can only find these for $750 + ... am I lookin at the wrong place? Also I only plan on getting a 5.1 setup at home, should I stick with the 5.1 receiver? Or consider future possibilities if I plan on getting a 7.1? (Mind you that chance is not likely...5.1 will do me fine)

I can also just get the Onkyo TX-SR506 7.1 Surround Sound Receiver for like $300 ...

For the subwoofers I've narrowed it down to:

Bic Acoustech H100 Powered Subwoofer $259
Premier Acoustic PA-120 Titanium Subwoofer $229.00

I can't seem to figure out what kinda speakers I should get. I just want a front standing speakers in the front ... any suggestions?


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## paints (Feb 3, 2008)

I'm pretty sure the Shack has refurbed Onkyo's at the electronics store. If not...check out http://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/category/HomeAudio/Home-Audio/5.html

As for which sub. From what I've seen. The performance is essentially equal for both of these entry level subs. I can only speak for the PA-120 and pass along that I'm totally satisfied with it. Everything I've tossed at it has been handled without any cracks or pops. I need to hit it with U-571 and see how that does. Who knows...maybe I'll take the leap and step up to the SVS that everyone raves about if my tastes change or I find something the PA really sucks at.

For now though I'm pretty happy with what I've put together.

As for your floor standing speakers. Tough call there. Best thing I'd say is check out some stores that demo speakers and find out what pleases your ear the most. OR you could go with the Yambeka's that have received great reviews. If I didn't stumble across that deal with the Primus Infinity set. I was going to go with the Yambeka's as at that price. You can't go wrong.

Good luck. Let us know what you go with. Oh yeah....if possible. Step up to the Onk 606. If you can go $300 for the 506. I saw the 606 for the same price. But it is refurbed.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

It's funny you say that, the yambeka's were the only one in my mind to get...and yea I remember you telling me about your PI set...you got lucky with that deal. I live in a small town so there is no place to go and do demo hearings..which sucks for me. 

As for refurbished receivers I don't have a problem getting that... I think I might be done with my choices by the end of the week and start ordering. I want to have a summer filled with new sound '

(The $260 i paid today to replace 3 tires in my car sucked though lol...woke up to a flat tire grrr)


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

ok i finally placed my order for a new onkyo 706 for Grand Total: $594.00 due to -$200 on an amazon promotion

now to get the other stuff


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

anyone have any experience with Fluance AV HTB? Currently I'm looking at the yambeka's but someone suggested the Fluance AV HTB as well..... any suggestions? I've already bought my receiver and my sub..now i gotta get my speakers


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

RaZmAn said:


> anyone have any experience with Fluance AV HTB? Currently I'm looking at the yambeka's but someone suggested the Fluance AV HTB as well..... any suggestions? I've already bought my receiver and my sub..now i gotta get my speakers


Fluance if memory serves me is not very good quality, you would be far better off with the Yambekas


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

Thanks. From what I saw ya they didn't look so hot. The yambeka's are going to run me approx $474 for a 7.0 setup after s&h. I'm wondering if there are any better speakers out there for that price...i will probably buy by tonight.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I cant think of anything better for that price. 7 speakers for $400 is hard to beat.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

I know the yams have gotten good reviews.. but seems to me that you could be shorting yourself. My typical rule of thumb is to spend 65-70% on speakers and the rest on the electronics. Spending more on the receiver rather than the speakers would obviously break that rule.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

that would mean I would have to spend approx $1000 on my speakers :S Unless you were counting the sub in with the speakers to make the 70%....I wouldn't mind going a bit higher on the speakers...probably 800 max ...can i get anything good for that price? I've currently got the onkyo 706 and pa-120 sub..now lookin for a good 5.0 setup..or even 7.0 of it isn't that much more

has anyone heard of cadence home audio? I saw a link for them on here....

http://www.cadencehometheaterspeakers.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=24&idcategory=6


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

RaZmAn said:


> that would mean I would have to spend approx $1000 on my speakers :S I wouldn't mind going a bit higher on the speakers...probably 800 max ...can i get anything good for that price?


I think so.. the SBS from SVS run $569 for 5 speakers. I also really like the speakers from Paradigm. I think some of their lower end stuff is within your budget but still a great value. 

There are also several DIY kits you could build that should fit both your budget and size constrints. If you already go with a predesigned kit, all you'd need is a few carpentry tools and some woodworking and soldering skills.

I also want to back up and say that the Yam's are supposed to be some fine speakers, they may be the best bet for you regardless of the their price vs. the price of the receiver. The 65/35 rule of thumb isn't universal either, it's just the way I think of these things. That Onkyo is a fine receiver.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

ya I really don't have the basic skill nor the time to build my own..otherwise that would be a pretty good option.

As for the yam, I can get the 7.0 setup for approx $434.00 after s&h.

I'm browsing around other places too....but what you said does make sense..if my receiver can handle more than the 506 that I was originally going to buy then why not up my speakers as well hmm...the svs looks ok but I kind of wanted floor standing speakers for the front and I don't think they have any under my budget. 

I am now browsing through paradigm..I did see their stuff before but it was quite costly from what I remember.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

RaZmAn said:


> ya I really don't have the basic skill nor the time to build my own..otherwise that would be a pretty good option.


You probably just saved yourself thousands of dollars.. I started down this path and haven't gotten off.



RaZmAn said:


> As for the yam, I can get the 7.0 setup for approx $434.00 after s&h.


Yeah, that price is going to be pretty hard to beat.. especially if you're looking for towers. I'm gonna have to give these a listen if I come across some.



RaZmAn said:


> I'm browsing around other places too....but what you said does make sense..if my receiver can handle more than the 506 that I was originally going to buy then why not up my speakers as well hmm...the svs looks ok but I kind of wanted floor standing speakers for the front and I don't think they have any under my budget.


A quick soap box statement -- imo, bookshelf speakers are going to sound better than a tower at almost every price point. The costs of storage and the extra material costs (that don't contribute to the sound of the speaker usually) are just that, extra. Furthermore, it's a lot easier (and or flexible) to properly place a bookshelf than a tower speaker. Stepping off the soap box now. :nerd:

With that in mind, I'd think a bookshelf on a stand of some sort would be a good solution. There is a point where I think a big floor standing speaker is a good thing -- but we're talking about a HUGE step up in your budget.




RaZmAn said:


> I am now browsing through paradigm..I did see their stuff before but it was quite costly from what I remember.


I'd have thought the cinema's were relatively inexpensive. Their next line up starts with the Mini-Monitor -- that probably does cross the line, but it's a great performer at its price point.


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## punman (Feb 21, 2009)

If money is tight, I would pass on the subwoofer for right now. Go with the fronts and center and add the subwoofer and surrounds later.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

JCD said:


> A quick soap box statement -- imo, bookshelf speakers are going to sound better than a tower at almost every price point. The costs of storage and the extra material costs (that don't contribute to the sound of the speaker usually) are just that, extra. Furthermore, it's a lot easier (and or flexible) to properly place a bookshelf than a tower speaker. Stepping off the soap box now. :nerd:
> 
> With that in mind, I'd think a bookshelf on a stand of some sort would be a good solution. There is a point where I think a big floor standing speaker is a good thing -- but we're talking about a HUGE step up in your budget.


I will disagree, Particularly if your not going to go with a subwoofer or you generally use direct mode for listening to music. Towers (florstanders) in almost every type I have ever heard go deeper and sound fuller than bookshelves. Even low cost floorstanders will go deeper unless your talking about larger so called bookshelves like I have for my surrounds that have 8' or 10' drivers there are very few bookshelves that go down into the 40Hz range and you need to if you want to enjoy full frequency music without a sub.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> I will disagree, Particularly if your not going to go with a subwoofer or you generally use direct mode for listening to music. Towers (florstanders) in almost every type I have ever heard go deeper and sound fuller than bookshelves. Even low cost floorstanders will go deeper unless your talking about larger so called bookshelves like I have for my surrounds that have 8' or 10' drivers there are very few bookshelves that go down into the 40Hz range and you need to if you want to enjoy full frequency music without a sub.


I will counter that most towers that are going lower are going to have more/bigger drivers. When you have a situation where you use the exact same drivers, I can't see how the tower is going to go deeper. Granted, there may be some ability to tune the enclosure a little lower, but it's not going to be a LOT lower. And they're going to be more expensive as well simply because there are more materials and higher storage costs.

Now, if you compare two different speakers at the same price point -- a tower vs a bookshelf -- I can buy that the tower will fill the lower end more, but I'll also argue that the bookshelf will sound better in the frequencies it's playing in. And since most HT include a subwoofer these days, being able to reach down to 40hz rather than 65hz isn't as relevant. Even without the sub, I'd still prefer the bookshelf that isn't hitting the first octave or octave and a half.

But, again, that's just me.

I should also point out that when I'm rich and famous, I will be building a 3 way system that will necessitate a floor standing model. However, it will also be significantly more expensive than my current setup.

Sorry if this is a thread hi-jack, but I thought it relevant.


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

JCD said:


> I will counter that most towers that are going lower are going to have more/bigger drivers. When you have a situation where you use the exact same drivers, I can't see how the tower is going to go deeper. Granted, there may be some ability to tune the enclosure a little lower, but it's not going to be a LOT lower. And they're going to be more expensive as well simply because there are more materials and higher storage costs.
> 
> Now, if you compare two different speakers at the same price point -- a tower vs a bookshelf -- I can buy that the tower will fill the lower end more, but I'll also argue that the bookshelf will sound better in the frequencies it's playing in. And since most HT include a subwoofer these days, being able to reach down to 40hz rather than 65hz isn't as relevant. Even without the sub, I'd still prefer the bookshelf that isn't hitting the first octave or octave and a half.
> 
> ...


I can tell you why the tower would be better for low end bass, a bookshelf (aka my bookshelf will be used for reference) is at maximum 15 liters of air in the enclosure.

My tower is 36 liters (both these numbers are without driver size included. So lets just say with those numbers, that the drivers are the same. And that they cost the same. Anyone who knows speakers knows that the enclosure will be the biggest effects on the speakers performance than anything. Running two identicle speakers, with different enclosures will affect its performance. Having more airflow behind the driver, and allowing for a deeper tuning than the bookshelf will allow for. In every sub discussion, the general idea is, the bigger you can the enclosure the better, which is why when you ask for help on what to choose they will most likely say try for a IB, because it offers the best bass possible. Aka the more air, the bigger the enclosure the better.


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## RaZmAn (Mar 17, 2009)

Interesting to see both or all 3 people's sides. I did consider buying a book shelf and putting it on a stand...but due to my carpetting I have a feeling it will tip over often and won't be as stable as a front tower....that's just me though.


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## Raymond Leggs (Aug 23, 2008)

Insignia NSHT51 is a bnice speaker package for a smaller to medium room.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

Below is a quick plot using one of Vifa's mid/woofer drivers

The Yellow line is a "optimum" sealed design (.398ft^3)
The Orange line is an IB setup
The Green line is a an "optimum" vented design (.767 ft^3 tuned to 43hz)
The Pink(ish) is a vented design with a bigger enclosure (2ft^3 tuned to 30Hz) -- this assumes the enclosure is actually bigger in a floorstander.










Which plot is "better"?
The IB setup does get the lowest, but starts rolling off sooner.
The "optimum" sealed design stays "flatter" longer than the IB, but looses it's oomph fairly quickly
The bigger than "optimum" vented does go lower, but doesn't put out as much at 50hz and isn't as "flat" as the "optimum" design.

If the goal is to get the absolute most bass possible, then the "bigger" vented enclosure is what you're looking for. If you're looking for the most accurate response, I'd argue that the vented optimum is what you're looking for. You do lose out in the low end, but then, that's why we get a sub. Granted, in this situation the sub might not be there right now, but it will be there at some point. 

Also, I go back to the point that even if both speakers use the exact same drivers, the floorstander is going to cost more -- maybe by as much as 25%? I've got the catalog for the version 2 of the paradigm studio line. The studio 20 (bookshelf) had a tweeter and a mid. The Studio 60 (floorstander) had what appears to be the same tweeter and mid, but also an additional woofer (different than the other mid). The 20 was +/-2dB to 54Hz versus the 60 which was +/-2dB to 42Hz. I'm thinking the price comparison was something like $500 vs $900.. maybe the 60's were even more, maybe a little less.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> In every sub discussion, the general idea is, the bigger you can the enclosure the better, which is why when you ask for help on what to choose they will most likely say try for a IB, because it offers the best bass possible. Aka the more air, the bigger the enclosure the better.


I might argue otherwise. There are specific drivers that are good for an IB setup -- which I hope to someday do. Some drivers are better suited to a smaller enclosure. I just don't think bigger is always better.

But again, that's just me.. :bigsmile: :hide:


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

Lol...well to say the least we should just agree to disagree.

And as its been said before, just let each man think what he wants to think. Furthermore, one mans preference to the sound, is another mans head ache. I prefer towers over book shelfs. I can't say I have heard better book shelf speakers vs Towers in the same price range. But, its always possible. If I were to choose, it would be a tower. Bookshelves are "usually" limited to smaller enclosures, smaller woofers, less woofers, and smaller port lengths than what a tower might offer. Smaller port length "usually" yields higher tuning, correct?

As well as a smaller enclosure "usually" yields boomier mid bass, and lacking resonating deep bass. My sony book shelves have great punchy bass, but my Polk Towers beat it out in depth by far; having much clearer bass for hip-hop, techno, house, and rap. While the bookshelves sound fairly lacking in the depth, and doesn't resonate, but play weak harmonics of the original.


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## JCD (Apr 20, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> Lol...well to say the least we should just agree to disagree.
> 
> And as its been said before, just let each man think what he wants to think. Furthermore, one mans preference to the sound, is another mans head ache. I prefer towers over book shelfs. I can't say I have heard better book shelf speakers vs Towers in the same price range. But, its always possible. If I were to choose, it would be a tower. Bookshelves are "usually" limited to smaller enclosures, smaller woofers, less woofers, and smaller port lengths than what a tower might offer. Smaller port length "usually" yields higher tuning, correct?
> 
> As well as a smaller enclosure "usually" yields boomier mid bass, and lacking resonating deep bass. My sony book shelves have great punchy bass, but my Polk Towers beat it out in depth by far; having much clearer bass for hip-hop, techno, house, and rap. While the bookshelves sound fairly lacking in the depth, and doesn't resonate, but play weak harmonics of the original.


Agreed.. I wasn't trying to say I was right and you were wrong, just my reasoning and my experience -- which should NOT be taken as gospel. :bigsmile:


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

Alright, well good to have this convo with ya. Hope i didnt sound all gospel like or anything...was just trying to share my points to. I guess its all in the word choice when talking online, cant tell my tone of voice here.


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