# Wyred for sound vs d-sonic



## Viggen (Dec 31, 2008)

Before I tackle my diy sub build I need to buy new amps for my main speakers. I am leaning towards replacing my parasound hca-1500's (two) with a class D amp and am leaning towards d-sonic and wyred for sound.

D sonic has the m3-1500 which is rated at 1500w rms at 8ohms and is $2,800 ish for a pair of mono locks. 

Wyred for sound has their SX-1000 mono blocks which is around 500w at 8 ohms and is approx $2,600 if I recall for the pair of mono blocks.

They also have a stereo version the st-1000 for a few hundred less and a new st-1000mkii which is slightly less powerful and I think similar money.

Any thoughts or experience with these companies? Presently I bi-amp my old infinity kappa 8.1's with a amp rated at approx 205w x 2 at 8ohms per speaker. 

My speakers are in the 4-6 ohm area 

I can't decide which direction to go......


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

The 315 watts per channel of the HCA-1500 (at 4ohms) is not sufficient? I'd suggest running each of your HCA-1500s bridged but Parasound does not recommend that for a speaker with a 4ohm impedance. The amount of power you're looking to get seems overkill. Are the new amps intended for the Infinity speakers or something else?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

I considered Wyred to be over priced when compared to Emotiva.

My solution was to go with a 4ohm capable AVR in the form of a Denon AVR4520CI

Note the last part of the review:

"Summing It Up

In conclusion, I am thoroughly impressed with this unit. It has about all the features you could ask for in a receiver/processor and ample power to accommodate most any speaker system.* I initially intended on reviewing it and then selling it, but instead I have already sold my Onkyo 5508, XPA-3 amp and XPA-1 monoblocks.* I keep thinking to myself that the 4520 seems to be a little on the pricey side, but if you consider what any other processor with the same features would cost you and then add the expense of amplification, the 4520 price actually sounds like a bargain. I think the most surprising part of my experience with the 4520 has been its ability to drive my MartinLogan speakers effortlessly. I had almost given up on ever trying receiver power because I have always read and heard that the Prodigy’s pretty much needed at least 300 watts of good clean power to perform their best. I will have to disagree with the naysayers, as I find it hard to get any better than what it is right now with the 4520 the only power amp source in my system. Excellent job Denon!"

In my opinion, in the end, it's all about the buyer, what the buyers wants out of the deal and how many Benjamins they have to throw at a problem of this kind and in the end, what piece of gear gives them that warm and fuzzy feeling when the individual points to the new piece of gear when their buddies are over to enjoy some entertainment.


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## Viggen (Dec 31, 2008)

The old kappas's many claim hang out in the 3-6 ohm area. 

My reason for upgrading is I want better sound quality then what I have now. Going from my adcom gfa-5500 to the parasound was a nice improvement and I want to go a much larger step up in sq (prior to adcom I used my Dennon AVR). I feel my weakest link in my system are my amplifiers and the inability to run Xlr cables. 

Power wise yes I think its a overkill however I feel to much power is better then not enough.... Love the headroom  I also thought that if for same reason I do not like the sound of the amps I could throw it on the sub and have plenty of power to push those drivers. 

D-sonic states their best amp for sq is their m3-1500 which doesn't use ice power like many other manufacturers. Wyred's new gen II line of amps is suppose to be similar to their MAmp line which was suppose to be a nice step up in sq.

In regards to the denon AVR4520, been a huge fan of their stuff for 20+ years and still own a AVR-3000. I prefer the sound of seperate amplifiers and use a integra DHC 80.3 as my pre/pro, can't afford to replace that. I am sure AVR's have greatly improved in sq but I still doubt they can come close to the sq of a solid seperate amp. 

Someday I would like to upgrade my speakers and being a old infinity fan, the ones I am considering are much harder to drive vs my 8.1's. Kappa 9.1, Renaissance 90 or some from the IRS line which is another reason I want lots of power.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Viggen said:


> Someday I would like to upgrade my speakers and being a old infinity fan, the ones I am considering are much harder to drive vs my 8.1's. Kappa 9.1, Renaissance 90 or some from the IRS line which is another reason I want lots of power.


Here's to finding the match which will make your day.

...:T


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

Agreed - I prefer to have too much power rather than not enough if possible.

Rotel's current line of amplifiers are class D. The RB-1572 is rated for 500wpc at 4ohms and priced at around half of either of those monoblock pairs. It sound like you're comfortable paying the price for Wyred or D-Sonic. I have not had the opportunity to hear them, but I'm sure you'll be very pleased with either option.


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## Viggen (Dec 31, 2008)

Never considered emotive products..... Reading up on them 

I will check out rotel, forgot about them. Had one of their receivers a long long time ago.... 

I actually prefer buying these items used so someone else can take the financial hit. But being kinda newish technology they are rarely available used it seems. Local audio shop suggests bryston however that is way out of my price range. A friend has a small audio shop and carries anthem however again..... Out of my budget.

Any chance of getting d sonic or wyred for sound to send you a pair of amps for testing? Also love to know how they compare for sub duty vs plate amps as well as the behringer/crown amps that so many use


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Viggen said:


> Never considered emotive products..... Reading up on them


I have read up on them and there's no reason I know of to not consider Emotiva's amplifiers. Do you have links to support your comment about "Never consider emotive products?"


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

BeeMan458 said:


> I have read up on them and there's no reason I know of to not consider Emotiva's amplifiers. Do you have links to support your comment about "Never consider emotive products?"


lol he said never considereD emotiva. Absolutely worth considering. Especially considering the cost, and the power you can achieve with less investment.


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## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

The only Emotiva product I have personally owned was the UMC-1 (which I ended up selling) but 99.99% of the feedback I've heard/read about their amps has been extremely positive. Based on that they are probably the best deal in A/V power amps. If I were to ever replace my HCA-1205A I'd certainly consider them right away.

Viggen, you mentioned interest in buying used - there are two Parasound HCA-3500s on ebay right now. Two mono amps on a single chassis. 500wpc at 4ohms.


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

Can't beat Emotive for power to price ratio. I use and am happy with them for all my amplication.


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## Viggen (Dec 31, 2008)

BeeMan458 said:


> Do you have links to support your comment about "Never consider emotive products?"


That statement was referring to the fact the "I" have never considered their products in the past  but am interested in them now and am reading reviews on their stuff ! They do seem to be very solid from what I have read..... 

In regards to those ebay parasound amps..... that sure would make my wife happy since she is the one with OCD and EVERYTHING has to match!! I just worry they wouldnt be enough power for my not so effecient speakers.... and I doubt I would have the room for 4 of those HCA-3500's


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I think it was just a typo. Forgot the ED on consider (ed) emotiva.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> lol he said never considereD emotiva. Absolutely worth considering. Especially considering the cost, and the power you can achieve with less investment.


I really do need to work on my reading comprehension. 

"D'oh!"

(Thanks for the reading correction)


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Viggen said:


> That statement was referring to the fact the "I" have never considered their products in the past  but am interested in them now and am reading reviews on their stuff ! They do seem to be very solid from what I have read.....


Reading comprehension fart on my part. I misread/misunderstood what you posted. Mea culpa.....My bad.

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

...:doh:


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

BeeMan458 said:


> I really do need to work on my reading comprehension.  "D'oh!" (Thanks for the reading correction)


my pleasure! I noticed it earlier in the conversation. Just keepin er on the tracks!


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> my pleasure! I noticed it earlier in the conversation. Just keepin er on the tracks!


Well, I appreciate your thoughtfulness.

...:clap:


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## padgman1 (Feb 13, 2013)

You may want to consider other pro-style amps for more power, like the Crown XLS 2500 ( 440W in 8 ohms, 775W in 4 ohms, can be bridged) or the Behringer INUKE NU6000 ( 1500w in 8 ohms, 3000w in 4 ohms). I have heard of many people using Crown amps to power their L/C/R speakers........many also use the Behringer amps, but mostly for sub duty.......


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## Viggen (Dec 31, 2008)

I have looked at behringer specs in the past due to so many people using them for sub duty. It seems very difficult to get actual power specs from their amplifiers. The manual for the inuke6000 does state 2x3000w at 4 ohms and 2x1500w at 8 ohms.... However that is maximum power and not rms power which is the number I am interested in.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

Found this at Parts-Express.

Product Specifications

"Power Output (RMS Per Channel @ 8 ohms)1100 Watts"


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I'll take 2 plz!!!


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## Viggen (Dec 31, 2008)

BeeMan458 said:


> Found this at Parts-Express.
> 
> Product Specifications
> 
> "Power Output (RMS Per Channel @ 8 ohms)1100 Watts"



Oops.... Not sure how I missed that 

Any idea where the specs on on the THD etc at that rms power? I doubt I would use those amps on my main speakers however a good possibility I will use them on yet diy sub build.


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

BeeMan458 said:


> Found this at Parts-Express. Product Specifications "Power Output (RMS Per Channel @ 8 ohms)1100 Watts"


 I have researched these before when considering an amp for my IB sub. I would use this in a nightclub or sub duty, but not for hifi home use. The power rating is deceptive on these pro sound products. This category of amps are purely made to push watts for loudness and not with superior sonics in mind. I have seen people use these in home theater only setups with pro-type speakers. So it all depends on your needs.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

blitzer said:


> I have researched these before when considering an amp for my IB sub. I would use this in a nightclub or sub duty, but not for hifi home use. The power rating is deceptive on these pro sound products. This category of amps are purely made to push watts for loudness and not with superior sonics in mind. I have seen people use these in home theater only setups with pro-type speakers. So it all depends on your needs.


Just saying, there's a lot of rave reviews on these amplifiers by DIY sub builders and professional sub builders on another unspoken forum.

See page #18 for distortions specifications.

The above goes back to sighted vs unsighted evaluations and how double-blind ABX tests have shown, as long as the amplifier is gain matched and working within specification, so far, with an offered a reward to do so, nobody can do better than random chance.

Out of curiosity, what did your research show that says these subs are not worthy of being used in a home theater system with passive subwoofers?


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

Agreed. I considered it for my diy IB sub, but decided against it based on what I read when researching it based on its suitability for IB sub use.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

What did you read?

What amplifier did you finally settle on?

I'm skimming your IB thread and so far, the best I've found is that you went with an Behringer EP4000. This of course confuses me in that on one hand you nix the amplifiers and on the other you went with a Behringer amplifier. 

I'm not trying to play gotcha. I'm trying to clarify my confusion as to what you're trying to share.

How do you like those Legacy Whispers and the Legacy Marquis for your front three?


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

Maybe I was not clear in my original post. I would consider this for sub use. Just not a full range application. So 20Hz - 100Hz yes. 100Hz and above no. The ep4000(old iron)has better measurements down low. Low meaning sub 15Hz which is key for IB subs.


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

blitzer said:


> Maybe I was not clear in my original post. I would consider this for sub use. Just not a full range application. So 20Hz - 100Hz yes. 100Hz and above no. The ep4000(old iron)has better measurements down low. Low meaning sub 15Hz which is key for IB subs.


Gotcha. Everything I've read on these amplifiers was for subwoofer use. No idea how they perform on full range applications. I'm sure, full range, in a club, nobody is going worry about critical listening techniques.

Anything you can share regarding your Legacy front three?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

BeeMan458 said:


> Gotcha. Everything I've read on these amplifiers was for subwoofer use. No idea how they perform on full range applications. I'm sure, full range, in a club, nobody is going worry about critical listening techniques. Anything you can share regarding your Legacy front three?


 Anything you can share regarding your Legacy front three?
I'd be curious to hear also. I got a package of legacy literature in the mail (they prob bought a mailing list?). Ever since, I've always wanted to experience ANY legacy stuff. Unfortunately, most feedback I can find is a pro review here and there, which is fine, but I'm starting to wonder about some of their motives. $?


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## BeeMan458 (Nov 25, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> Anything you can share regarding your Legacy front three?
> I'd be curious to hear also. I got a package of legacy literature in the mail (they prob bought a mailing list?). Ever since, I've always wanted to experience ANY legacy stuff.


They sure are per-ty looking. And if one on those lottery tickets we occasionally buy comes in, I wouldn't mind spending some of the winnings on a new set of speakers.......for no other reason then I have the lottery winnings and I gotta spend them on something.

...:bigsmile:


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## blitzer (Mar 5, 2010)

willis7469 said:


> Anything you can share regarding your Legacy front three?
> I'd be curious to hear also. I got a package of legacy literature in the mail (they prob bought a mailing list?). Ever since, I've always wanted to experience ANY legacy stuff. Unfortunately, most feedback I can find is a pro review here and there, which is fine, but I'm starting to wonder about some of their motives. $?


I have alway hated boxy sound. Before you get sensitive to it, you don't notice it. Once you get sensitive to it, it's hard to go back. I was at the Chicago Axpona show last year and actually cringed in about 50% of the rooms due to boxy colorations. And have heard it in speakers costing over $15K. It's a hollow sound at certain frequencies. All box speakers have it, unless you start spending mega bucks. From reviews and what others have said, Whispers are on par with Wilson for sound quality. The Focus offers huge bass and high quality for their lower priced offerings. 

So, in my non-boxy holier than tho preference. I went through Martin Logan electostats, Magnepans, and landed on Legacy Whispers due to the fact that they don't have boxes behind the woofers - it's open air. So, unlike Magnepans(which are unbelievable speakers except for dynamics), the Whispers can play as loud as you want and go in into the 20Hzs without the boxy sound. They incorporate a ribbon tweeter, a regular tweeter, 4 mid ranges and 4 15" woofers and a 15" passive radiator in the back (to absorb back wave) in just one speaker. They are un-believable sounding... They are not for everyone because they weight about 250 pounds per speaker and ship in coffins. I still don't know how they weight so much because it is not a box, but more like 2 huge pieces of wood that comprise the speaker.

Legacy is a small operation and I believe they have some of the most underrated speakers out there. They are truly worth a listen. I wish they would get more of their speakers to popular reviewers.


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## Viggen (Dec 31, 2008)

I must say..... Being a funeral director ..... I can totally relate to the shipping coffins comment


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## conanb (Feb 12, 2016)

*any D-Sonic users with reviews?*

Has anyone on this forum actually used a D-Sonic amplifier?


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