# Yamaha to Onkyo



## grstovell (Nov 26, 2011)

Hi everyone

Real audio newb here! I could really use some help.
I'm finishing our HT and need to upgrade the sound system.
I am running a 5.1 Yamaha HTR-5930 with the little factory speakers, but have never been really happy with it. The dialogue is never really loud enough for the fx and background music. (Does that make sense?) 

http://www.retrevo.com/s/Yamaha-HTR-5930-Receivers-review-manual/id/1075bh228/t/1-2/

The real reason for the upgrade is that it doesn't have HDMI and I'm currently running everything through component video.
I just found an Onkyo-S7300 7.1 all in one receiver and speaker system from Accessories4less.
Here's the link:
http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...el-Home-Theater-Package-with-iPod-Dock/1.html

My HT is 18x13 with very limited space for front L&R speakers, which is why the floor standing speakers are so attractive.

So - question. Will I notice a (hopefully) dramatic improvement in sound with the Onkyo to the Yamaha? Or am I going again to an entry-level all in one solution and I should probably buy a good receiver, run it through the little speakers I now have and buy decent speakers as $ allows? The $500 label from Accessories4Less is at the very top of my budget right now (after all... just finished construction on the thing and I need to replace the projector as well).


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

grstovell said:


> So - question. Will I notice a (hopefully) dramatic improvement in sound with the Onkyo to the Yamaha?


The simple answer is Yes, you will notice a difference. The 7300 is one of the few HTIB systems that actually does sound good for the money.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
As per usual, I agree completely with Tony.
Cheers,
JJ


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## grstovell (Nov 26, 2011)

Thank Tony and JJ

unfortunately, I still need help.
As you all probably know there is some "negotiating" in every new home theater design for a balance of "sounds good" vs "looks good". In other words... I showed the Onkyo sys to my wife, and it seems to clash with the minimalist design we are trying to achieve. In this case, the walls of the theater are white with walnut (stained) wood columns and trim. It would be great if the speakers either blended or disappeared... and black bookshelf speakers on the wall against a white background are bund to stand out.

So, I need to stay within my budget or get something good (aesthetically pleasing) but basic and build on it. - help!

Here are my challenges... I need to center a 92 inch screen in between the door on the right and the wall space on the left. Will cover both spaces on either side of the screen with black velvet curtains... which means that in wall speakers right and left of the screen are out of the question. I also looked at front in ceiling speakers and those won't work either because of HVAC ductwork on half of the room. I imagine black bookshelf front speakers in each corner would disappear against the black velvet.

I don't worry too much about the front center speaker since I can easily hide it in the other room and poke a hole through the drywall just under the screen.

The surround speakers are a challenge. I can't have in wall on the back wall because of the door placement. Could I purchase in wall speakers and have them point perpendicularly to the length of the room?

Or.. even easier. Can I get a receiver and then look for black front and white surround speakers? If so, who do I know what kind of speakers to buy (wattage? etc) to make the most of out a given receiver? As you can tell - real newbie here and Im afraid I'll make the investment and fail in building a mismatched system.

Help! Here are the photos of the HT. Construction is done. The speakers are hung temp until we paint and stain. The desk is there in the meantime... since we probably won't be painting until January


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
You could certainly get an AVR first. Provided it is of good quality, you really should not have many if any concerns about it being able to drive Monitor Sized Speakers.

Moreover, if you currently have Speakers that will work for the time being, there is nothing wrong with that. Also, you could always apply a white adhesive backed film over your current Speakers or even Spray Paint them.
Cheers,
JJ


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## grstovell (Nov 26, 2011)

One last question (for now).
I'll go ahead and start searching for good quality (not sure yet what that means though) AVRs and use my current speakers. My question is, should I go for a 7.1 instead of a 5.1? Is the difference really that dramatic?
And as I add speakers, is it true that my top priority should be front left and right, then center?

Thanks for all your help
-g


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

7.1 is really beneficial if you have two rows of seating or you have room behind the seating (minimum 2ft) to the wall. 
The left, right and subwoofer are the most important speakers in a system as you can very easily "phantom" the centre channel and not even use one. Meaning that the dialog goes to the left and right speakers.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

If your budget permits I would get 7.1 avr to allow you to add 2 side surrounds speakers in the future. This gives you some added flexibility later on if you change the room layout and it addresses what Tony said about the benefit relative to 2nd row of seats.


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## grstovell (Nov 26, 2011)

Settled then.
I'll go for a 7.1 AVR and add a pair of good fronts as budget allows. I'll probably run it as a 5.1 with existing speakers for a while... until $ catch up.
Here's the one I'm looking into. I especially like this one because it can up convert my DVR & AppleTV to 1080p (or so it claims). What do you think?

http://www.accessories4less.com/mak...Channel-3-D-Ready-Network-A/V-Receiver/1.html


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The 609 gets great reviews, just as long as your ok with not having the ability to add external amps as the 609 does not have pre outs.


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## grstovell (Nov 26, 2011)

I guess I'm ok with that - especially since I don't know what an external amp would do =)
Would it be for a separate amp that powers a second subwoofer?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

It would be used if you have main speakers that need a fair bit of power to sound good. Generally if your speakers are higher than 90db efficient you will be ok with the internal amps of the 609.


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## grstovell (Nov 26, 2011)

609 purchased!!!

Thanks everyone. This is a great forum.
I'll probably post again to ask for help once I'm ready to buy speakers =)


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## smurphy522 (Sep 21, 2010)

Be sure to use the Audyssey feature to get the correct set-up for your speakers. It may provide some noticeable improvements in your room.

Best of luck. That Onkyo AVR is a solid foundation!

*If you must go the traditional speaker route:*
I think you would be best off trying to locate small bookshelf or satellite speakers for the LCR. Mount them high up on the side wall closest to the door. At least your door opens out and will not interfere with a small speaker there (front right channel).

Please, please skip Bose:nono:. If you must have something that small then get it from a real speaker company like: Kef, Definitive Tech., Atlantic Tech., Klipsch, JBL, Paradigm, Martin Logan, PSB, Energy, Etc.....Etc. there are literally hundreds more!

*However more and more speaker companies are offering something of a new concept - the speaker bar:*
This is something that may be ideal for your situation because it is one enclosure that houses the left, center and right channels. Usually they are designed (tuned) to be wall mounted and provide a wide sound stage. I would stray away from the ones that offer the rear or surround channels also integrated into the same enclosure as they are more suited for a bed room or application that absolutely can not install rear speakers. Most speaker companies offer a design or two which you should consider. Take a look at some of the companies listed above for the various versions from each.

-Definitive Technology offering here

-Paradigm offering here

-Klipsch offering here

-Atlantic Technology offering here

-Kef offering here


I'm sure a few searches through this site and Google can pull up some good reviews of different offerings.


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## grstovell (Nov 26, 2011)

Thanks smurphy! Sorry it took so long to reply. I was out of town.
AS I said before, the 609 is bought and installed. It makes a GREAT difference even with the tiny "vintage" speakers that came with the original Yamaha.
Just purchased (today) the Epson 8350 and a nice screen to go with it.
Still have roughly $550 left in my budget.

so... new questions
1) ... are my $550 still in decent range to purchase a lcr sound bar?
2) ...I've heard mixed reviews about the use of sound bars... but for me it makes perfect sense given the room setup. Is there any disadvantage of using a sound bar for lcr?

Thanks for any help you can give.

-g


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Sound bars are a big compromise in sound separation. There is no substitute for a real L C R speaker setup. For $550 you can still get some decent speakers if you look hard enough.


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## gsmollin (Apr 25, 2006)

grstovell said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> Real audio newb here! I could really use some help.
> I'm finishing our HT and need to upgrade the sound system.
> ...


Q: The dialogue is never really loud enough for the fx and background music. (Does that make sense?) 
A: Yes, that makes perfect sense because most movies sound like that in a home theater. The problem is two-fold: 1) Directors make the dialogue low in a movie to force the audience to become "absorbed" into the drama. 2) The sound fx are rather loud in a theater, but the theater itself is stressed for these sound levels. Generally your home is not. In some releases, a "dialnorm" is added which seeks to normalize the dialogue for HT use. This all depends on the movie soundtrack. The point is that this is not your equipment, but is in the source.

Q: Will I notice a (hopefully) dramatic improvement in sound with the Onkyo to the Yamaha?
A: The real reason for getting a new AVR is to get the new features it provides, such as HDMI switching and sound, and the latest codecs. Changing from one amplifier to another will make little sonic improvement in your HT. The most dramatic improvements are in the speakers, and the acoustics of the room. The room acoustics are often the pacing item in sound quality, and spending the time to learn about room acoustics, and a few hundred dollars to address the worst faults in your HT can improve sound quality and speech intelligbility as much as thousands spent on speakers and amplifiers.


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