# Basic Stereo Receiver Advice



## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

Hello, I am looking to upgrade Mom's stereo system. I have only ever researched full on AVR HT receivers and had very different requirements. I did not realize that so many stereo only options existed and at such low prices, so I am looking to the groups experience to get me started. I asked her a bunch of questions and here are what believe the requirements are:

Required:
Play AM/FM stations - needs good reception so am also researching FM antenna options
Hook up an external CD changer and turntable
Have A/B speaker capability - no need for different simultaneous sources, just ability to hook up deck speakers
Large display, buttons, knobs - she's 81
Simplicity - no bells and whistles like live theatre, video game, concert hall, etc.. settings. Just good music that she can easily choose a source, speaker selection and listen to her classical and opera music. 

Desired:
simple remote (no remote better than crazy complicated remote)
XM Sirius Capability
Ipod input
sub out for future possible upgrade
ok, now Im getting into what I want her to have...

Back to my original reason for post - I have no idea where to spend my dollars - I am looking at systems like the Yamaha R-S500 Natural sound. I was going to spend 400 on the receiver and 600 on a pair of speakers, but if my receiver requirements are less I would shift that money into the speakers. The speakers I am more comfortable choosing, but mainly bookshelf nice sounding speakers. I have not yet researched outdoor speakers yet but that will come from a different source of funds. 

Thank you in advance for any receiver recommendations. Any advice on maximizing FM reception in rural area and outdoor speaker selection is also appreciated. Hope everyone is having a great day. 

Bug


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

She is 81.

Get the cheapest receiver you can find to meet her needs For get Ipod input and Sub out. Get one with AUX input and buy a cheap cable. Does she really use XM Sirius?
Any speakers will do for her even used. A pair of older Mission speakers ($100) will work will for her type of Music. I love my Missions for Classical music. Get any model starting with 76 or 75, DO NOT BUY NEWER MISSION’S.
You do not need to spend that type of cash.
An older NAD might just be the ticket.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I think I'd recommend a Yamaha R-S300. I believe it will fill all of her needs and most of yours. And a pair of RBH/EMP Tek R5Bi bookshelf speakers.


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks guys. I'm going to check around for a used nas and also keep that Yamaha in mind. Both fit the bill and budget. Those speakers look good for the money. I just recalled I have on old sub in the basement I have to check out. Think it's a Polk that I replaced with an svs for my ht and forgot about it. She still has her technics turntable and I found a pair of flower pot speakers gently used for her outdoor deck. I'll update once complete with her "review". She's got a pretty good ear and taste for 81...

One last question, there is an specific fm station shed like to pull in that's she barely pulls in now. Should I be looking at indoor solutions or go straight to outdoor? I don't mind climbing up on the roof. 

Thanks again for the replies.

Bug


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

Outdoor. Directional if needed for that one station. You could use a directional and an omni both through a splitter in reverse if you're pulling stations from multiple locations.


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

Adcom has been great for me. I have a GTP-500 that's great for my office two channel system. I had a GFA-535 I just sold since I recently moved from passive to powered studio monitors. LSR308's. Lovely!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Personally I think this Yamaha MCR-N560 would be ideal small footprint and good sound with airplay and all the other features you asked for although it does not have A/B speaker outputs. It comes with speakers so just a nice simple system.


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

tonyvdb said:


> Personally I think this Yamaha MCR-N560 would be ideal small footprint and good sound with airplay and all the other features you asked for although it does not have A/B speaker outputs. It comes with speakers so just a nice simple system.


I purchased the predecessor of this for my sister a few years back and it was very good.


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

Thanks everyone's for your responses. I'll be pulling the trigger within the next 48 hours on either the Yamaha rs300 or the Onkyo 8050. I know both will do what I need and sound great. Accessories4less has the Yamaha at 224 w shipping and the onkyo for 184 plus 15 shipping. Does anyone have experience with the 8050 network play capabilities. I have read some reviews stating it is very difficult to use if you can get it to work at all. This is not a requirement but for a little less money perhaps getting that feature is not a bad idea for when I visit her. Any opinion on possible advantages of the Yamaha to justify slightly higher price and lack of USB/network feature? The Yamaha is also 50 watts compared to onkyo 70 watts but I do not think that will matter much for this application. Funny how I have invested a lot (for me) in my HT but still obsess over even a 200 dollar purchase with this stuff!


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Both look great. Amp section looks the same. Yamaha looks to be the better amp if you look at distortion along with the watts. I like the look of the Yamaha better.

what speakers are you thinking about?


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

I too like the look of the Yamaha. I am likely going to go with the emp tek R5bi speakers recommended by Nova inside and these sod audio ps520 flowerpot speakers I got free for out on the deck.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Very nice. Also take a look at Arx A1.


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

Happy Sunday, Do you guys think that I could get away without a sub if used for 2 channel music only (mainly classical and opera) if I went with Bookshelves like the Emp Tek R5bi or ARX A1's? I thought I had an old sub but its shot. Also, do these internet direct speaker companies ever do a black friday type sale? Only 5 days away! Thanks.

Bug.


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

Anything potentially spent on a sub is better spent on larger main speakers of the goal is good opera/classical and the budget is limited. Also easier to setup/integrate without a subwoofer.

Quality speaker stands would also be a worthwhile investment to get the most out of the bookshelf speakers rather than a cheap subwoofer and compromised bookshelf placement.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

The cheapest I would go for a sub for Classical is the $500 SVS SB1000 but I would sooner move to the Arx A3/A5.

I'm just as happy listening to classical music on bookshelves as I am with my large system at low levels.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Neither of those speakers will go very low, somewhere in the 55 - 60 Hz range. There are very few bookshelf speakers that do not benefit from a sub. Even their big brother floorstanders only get down in the 40 - 50 Hz range. Really depends on what you or mom can live with, or without. Doesn't mean they are not great sounding speakers, you'd just be missing a bit on the bottom end.

EMP Tek usually has a couple of sales a year, can't remember when though. They occasionally have "B" stock and clearances as well. Not sure about Chane though, I would think they would have things on sale now and then.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

You could get a couple of these SVS Ultra bookshelves and an SVS SB1000 both outlet specials right now. That would sound really nice for music.


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

Blacklightning said:


> The cheapest I would go for a sub for Classical is the $500 SVS SB1000 but I would sooner move to the Arx A3/A5. I'm just as happy listening to classical music on bookshelves as I am with my large system at low levels.


 +1

However I think I'd prefer the Kef Q300's for a bookshelf speakers though.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

nova said:


> Neither of those speakers will go very low, somewhere in the 55 - 60 Hz range. There are very few bookshelf speakers that do not benefit from a sub. Even their big brother floorstanders only get down in the 40 - 50 Hz range. Really depends on what you or mom can live with, or without. Doesn't mean they are not great sounding speakers, you'd just be missing a bit on the bottom end.


Yes, this is all true but I fine setting up a sub for Classical music is really hard as you want to hear the sub. If you don't get it just right, you will end up just turning it off. When it is setup you do not notice it.
For an 81 year old, I would keep things simple. I would hate for someone to come over and see a sub and not hear it so they turn it up. After that person leaves the sub is set too high and she slowly stops listening to the system because it no longer sounds good.



tonyvdb said:


> You could get a couple of these SVS Ultra bookshelves and an SVS SB1000 both outlet specials right now. That would sound really nice for music.


I always forget about SVS's speaker. Great buy. If it's any thing like the towers the treble might be a little hot but that would be good of an older person.




eclipse911t said:


> +1
> 
> However I think I'd prefer the Kef Q300's for a bookshelf speakers though.


Kef's are also great. I got a pair for my Dad years ago because that look and sound gorgeous. Also great for Classical.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If she can tolerate the size, Outlaw has the LFM1-Plus for ~$550 shipped right now.
If the SVS-PB1000 is the same price I am sure it would be equally good or better.
I think A4L has some good prices on KEF and ML speakers right now.

It's not hard to integrate a sub with speakers and if she likes classical music it's worth getting a sub.
As far as others messing with it...that can be handled.


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

So much good advice. I am now tempted to give her my svs sb1000 and get myself a 2000 for my HT. However due to budget constraints and wife not an option. Mom also now has made it clear she does not want a sub. (Another piece of furniture in her view) so I'll be looking to stick with bookshelves but the emp tek with 5 1/4 woofer may not be enough. Perhaps I'll spend the 450 for the KEF q300 with the 6 1/2. I'll find the best deal Friday and pull the trigger on something. The good news is thanks to everyone's input I don't think I can make a "bad" choice here. I'll be sure to share my outcome for others to read.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Looks like RBH is having a Black Friday sale on EMP Tek for the next 5 days. The R5Bi is now on sale for $168.75 pr. plus free shipping. And with a 30 day free in-home trial you could check 'em out to see if they meet her needs.


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

The sub is actually an EOSONE, not EUSONIC. No wonder I couldn't find anything online....Anyway, appears to be a 70Kw 10" sub, part of a EOSONE 5.1 system. Ill see if they work well with the EMP TEK's



nova said:


> Looks like RBH is having a Black Friday sale on EMP Tek for the next 5 days. The R5Bi is now on sale for $168.75 pr. plus free shipping. And with a 30 day free in-home trial you could check 'em out to see if they meet her needs.


Thanks for the heads up. Based on the specs, reviews, and that price I went ahead and ordered them. I do think they may need a subwoofer so I am going to re use her old Sony STR-135 receiver which provides 100 watts per and has her requisite A/B speaker selection to power the deck flower pots. This way if I need a sub I can put that money toward it. Speaking of subs, I dug out an old sub I had in storage and got it to work by fixing a loose wire - I thought it was a Klipsh but it turns out it is something called a Eusonics and it has a 10 inch woofer. It is powered - I don't know much about subs (except that svs makes awesome ones) and cant find anything on line about Eusonics so I don't know if it would be helpful or harmful to the sound of the Emp Tek's. Ill certainly give it a try. I also picked up the $99 Onkyo DX 390 CD carousel from A4L to replace her broken one. 

Thanks again for the heads up on the Emp Teks. Ill let you know how they do without and with my "Eusonics" sub. If anyone has heard of this sub please let me know. Thanks, and Happy Thanksgiving.

Bug


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## Rob514 (Nov 26, 2014)

I like to try not mixing brands so if you're going with the Yamaha Id look at the NS-BP400PN and a cheaper option of NS_6490. Ive read with the Yamaha Natural Sound speakers you get out of them what you put in.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Bugwizer said:


> The sub is actually an EOSONE, not EUSONIC. No wonder I couldn't find anything online....Anyway, appears to be a 70Kw 10" sub, part of a EOSONE 5.1 system. Ill see if they work well with the EMP TEK's
> 
> 
> 
> Speaking of subs, I dug out an old sub I had in storage and got it to work by fixing a loose wire - I thought it was a Klipsh but it turns out it is something called a Eusonics and it has a 10 inch woofer. It is powered - I don't know much about subs (except that svs makes awesome ones) and cant find anything on line about Eusonics so I don't know if it would be helpful or harmful to the sound of the Emp Tek's.


Maybe I'm pickier than most but I have tried a lot of cheap subs with Classical music and none of them have worked out. I few of them did sound really nice but I would still turn it off for some CD's. I have done lots of sub setup's for friends and family for both Music and Movies. Classical music is a different animal as I believe you need a very linear sub. Most cheap subs are not boosted in the low end and/or are not sealed so there peak Frequency response is around 60hz the same place were most small speakers start to roll off. So if you get the sub balanced at say 40hz with the system the lower notes of the double bass sound great but the cello's will sound too fat. If you level match the sub at 80hz you will find the sub will roll off the same as the speakers and you do not gain a lot but this will sound the best if your sub is not super slow compared to the speakers.

In the end it's free to try and see if it's going to work out and I'm sure you will get it to sound nice but the real test will be 2 months from now and you turn it off for a few days and you may start noticing things in the music that the sub was covering up. :dontknow:


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## eclipse911t (Jan 8, 2013)

100% agreed. Money is better spent on stands or a 2-way with a good 6.5" driver or maybe even slightly larger. 

Inexpensive subs are extremely difficult to integrate for classical. One tiny work around I've found is to push the crossover below the 60Hz bump down to 40-50. This will make the lowest frequencies a tad louder and the mid-sub bass a tad flatter. Of course there is an output and headroom sacrifice but shouldn't be an issue in this scenario.


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

eclipse911t said:


> 100% agreed. Money is better spent on stands or a 2-way with a good 6.5" driver or maybe even slightly larger.
> 
> Inexpensive subs are extremely difficult to integrate for classical. One tiny work around I've found is to push the crossover below the 60Hz bump down to 40-50. This will make the lowest frequencies a tad louder and the mid-sub bass a tad flatter. Of course there is an output and headroom sacrifice but shouldn't be an issue in this scenario.





Blacklightning said:


> Maybe I'm pickier than most but I have tried a lot of cheap subs with Classical music and none of them have worked out. I few of them did sound really nice but I would still turn it off for some CD's. I have done lots of sub setup's for friends and family for both Music and Movies. Classical music is a different animal as I believe you need a very linear sub. Most cheap subs are not boosted in the low end and/or are not sealed so there peak Frequency response is around 60hz the same place were most small speakers start to roll off. So if you get the sub balanced at say 40hz with the system the lower notes of the double bass sound great but the cello's will sound too fat. If you level match the sub at 80hz you will find the sub will roll off the same as the speakers and you do not gain a lot but this will sound the best if your sub is not super slow compared to the speakers.
> 
> In the end it's free to try and see if it's going to work out and I'm sure you will get it to sound nice but the real test will be 2 months from now and you turn it off for a few days and you may start noticing things in the music that the sub was covering up. :dontknow:


Thanks for the tips on the lower end sub settings, I did get a pair of Sanus stands for the speakers. Im having the emp teks shipped right to my Mother's house and will not be out there until late December so will find out then what she thinks. I showed my wife your posts and she thinks you are part of a secret conspiracy to give my mother my svs sb-1000 and upgrade our home sub to the sb13 ultra.... Maybe when I hook the eosone sub up Ill set the crossover frequency all the way up and say "see, I told you we should give her our sub".


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Rob514 said:


> I like to try not mixing brands so if you're going with the Yamaha Id look at the NS-BP400PN and a cheaper option of NS_6490. Ive read with the Yamaha Natural Sound speakers you get out of them what you put in.


Generally speaking this is not considered standard practice.
Any AVR or any good quality subwoofer will work well with a huge variety of speakers.
There is no good electrical or sound quality reasons to keep the brands of the AVR and sub the same as the speakers.


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## shkumar4963 (Nov 16, 2014)

The advice to set the sub at low frequency may sound ok but it has a problem. There are two problems with book shelf speakers. One is that they don't have much bass frequencies and two is that they have horribly high distortion levels at lower frequencies. Most manufacturers do not publish frequency vs. Distortion curves at listening levels, but you can get them from sounddesign hifi who gets all their speakers measured at Canada's national research council. So setting the sub a low frequency will just result in a lot of distortion at lower frequencies. Before buying a bookshelf definitely check out it's distortion curve. That is the key to speaker quality. Frequency response can be fixed with proper equalization but distortion can not be fixed.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

shkumar4963 said:


> The advice to set the sub at low frequency may sound ok but it has a problem. There are two problems with book shelf speakers. One is that they don't have much bass frequencies and two is that they have horribly high distortion levels at lower frequencies. Most manufacturers do not publish frequency vs. Distortion curves at listening levels, but you can get them from sounddesign hifi who gets all their speakers measured at Canada's national research council. So setting the sub a low frequency will just result in a lot of distortion at lower frequencies. Before buying a bookshelf definitely check out it's distortion curve. That is the key to speaker quality. Frequency response can be fixed with proper equalization but distortion can not be fixed.


You are 100% correct. The advice I was giving to the OP was for his situation of adding a cheap sub with good speakers for classical music. If he was using a SVS SB1000 I would be giving him different advice.

My real advice for him was not to use the cheaper sub at all but if you are going to use it, it should be playing as little as possible. lddude:


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

I received my emp-teks. They came nicely packaged and undamaged. I have to say these speakers in the Red Burl look really nice. They are attractive with or without the grilles. They are as expected on the light side, but feel solidly built. I can't believe I got the pair for $180 through RBH, not surprised they are sold out now. I'll be bringing them out to Moms on Monday and setting them up on stands with the Sony receiver, her new Onkyo CD carousel and outside deck speakers. For the sake of our "cheap sub discussion" Ill throw the eusonics sub on just for the of it to hear the difference. Still not sure if this might have been a quality sub in its day. I do not have any measuring tools, but will poll the family and let you all know how it works out. Thanks!


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Congrats on the systems.
Nice to see someone get some great advice and follow it up with action.

A poll will be hard as the wow factor of any sub is great the first time you hear it. You would need to do a poll over a long period of time.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I'm looking forward to your Mom's and your listening impressions of the EMP Tek's.


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## Bugwizer (Nov 8, 2014)

Hey, so I hooked up the emp teks to her sony receiver along with the onkyo DXC390 CD carousel. The emp teks aesthetically blended in beautifully to Moms living room. They sounded great, especially in the mid to high range with very nice sound seperation. I did hook up my repaired (toilet paper and elmers) eusonics sub and set it to 60hz. While you couldnt much hear it much for classical which was fine, it did fill out the sound for say, the bass line on Elvis' Christmas album. All in all very happy with the Emp teks for the price. A couple of other notes: I know not many are buying CD carousels these days but in this case the DXC390 6 cd changer for $99 from AFL was a good buy. There is a big blue light on the front that you may or may not like. Another thing to keep in mind is that this piece is quite deep due to the 6 CD changer so I had to cut the back out of the cabinet I have it in. Looks great now, but keep in mind depending on your cabinet. I also spent $7 on a dipole FM antenna and now she pulls in a classical station from CT 80 miles away that she could not receive with a $30 tower thing from Radio Shack. Finally, I am glad I retained her old Sony rather than invest in an internet capable receiver. I purchased an rca to headphone jack from RS and hooked up an old itouch I had. She now can stream from my Sirius XM, Pandora, and Spotify accounts for a grand total of $12. All in all this upgrade cost 180 for the speakers, 99 for the CD player, and 12 for the adapter. A grand total of $291 for an upgrade that made my 80 y.o. mother very happy with nice sounding music playing throughout her home. Thanks to all who provied their advice and opinions. A Happy New Year to all.

-Bug


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