# 2nd Sub for Difficult room



## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

HDMI board died on my Onkyo NR906, so I just bought a Denon 4311CI (mostly for 9.2 and XT32). Hoping to build my dedicated HT next year, but in mean time have a difficult room (see attached picture).

I've never been overly happy with the bass, so wondering if adding a second sub would help.

I really can't move any of the furniture, so none of the classic multi-sub setups are going to work. In the attached image, I've added several S2's which are possible locations for a 2nd sub.

I have Mirage omninsats:

Full height fronts
bookshelfs on 3' high stands (too close to sofa) for surrounds 
nano's for back (mounted above window) 
S10 sub

Interior of room is 17' wide and 12' deep. 
Has large opening to stairs on right
Has two openings to kitchen (top)
Has brick fireplace on left

Can't put anything in bottom right as front door opens from bottom to right (as shown) and closet door opens from right to bottom.

Could mount right surround above closet, but not sure if that would be too high.

Would a 2nd sub improve things given my room layout (and inability to change it). Even audio treatments seem virtually impossible because of fireplace and open are to stairs, If you think it would, where would you suggest for the second sub?

Regards

mark


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## lizardking (Aug 22, 2012)

Hi! I have seen the drawing and you have put your surrounds and rear all in one line. Take ur surrounds above the closet and the left opposite above the fireplace. the height wont matter if you are able to tilt them down. about your second sub, what exactly is lacking when listening to one sub?


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## lizardking (Aug 22, 2012)

From the picture the best place to place the second sub is the spot you have chosen below the television set, near the 1st sub. Can you take your floor standing Left and Right Front more wide cause i think they are too close and what centre are you using? there should be at least 3 1/2 feet difference between centre and left and right. After that place your subs closer to the left and right speakers.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

I always like subs on the same wall as the front mains. Many will tell you that frequencies below about 80 Hz cannot be localized, but I can tell if I move the subs to the side or back wall. Corner placement provides extra gain from the boundaries, but sometimes can make frequency response worse by exciting more room modes.

Good decision about adding the second sub. Adding one does more than just increasing output - it can make overall frequency response smoother. If possible, match the first one, or at least get one with equal or greater output.

You may wish to ask your questions on the Home Audio Acoustics forum here at HTS. Lots of good advice there on how to achieve the best performance from your system in your room.

Congrats on the 4311. I have last year's anniversary version, the A100 and love it. I added Audyssey Pro earlier this year and it made quite a noticeable improvement, both in overall freq response and system imaging.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

The best place to stick that second sub might be a little hard to determin without taking measurements with REW. When I added a second sub into my set-up, it's best location was determined to be qa


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Ooops.... The location next to your stairs.

I also found that having the second fire slightly out of phase helped even more.

I'm sure with your room the location is probably a little different...

But I wouldn't recommend just plopping it down in the front of your room and hoping for the best.


The folks at HSU might have an opinion. You can post your picture on their forum (or email it to their customer service) and see if they have an answer!


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

hjones4841 said:


> Congrats on the 4311. I have last year's anniversary version, the A100 and love it. I added Audyssey Pro earlier this year and it made quite a noticeable improvement, both in overall freq response and system imaging.


thanks Hjones. I'm considering Audyssey pro if I need it. from what I've read it's about $350 for the kit and $150 for the license. Is that correct?

Other than using an SPL meter and things like Audyssey and MCCAC, I've got no experience with room calibration. Is it easy to learn?


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

lizardking said:


> From the picture the best place to place the second sub is the spot you have chosen below the television set, near the 1st sub. Can you take your floor standing Left and Right Front more wide cause i think they are too close and what centre are you using? there should be at least 3 1/2 feet difference between centre and left and right. After that place your subs closer to the left and right speakers.


Thanks for reply

I'm constrained by those 2 doorways. The only choice I have is to go to other side of the doorway, which would take me about 5 feet way. BUT there's furniture there that the wife isn't prepared to move, so stuck. On left is an antique desk (ornamental), so I could put a sun under it, bu not a speaker.

My only issue with being next to first sub is that it will pretty much fore into the end of the sectional. Diagram isn't perfectly to scale. Sectional is about 3 foot from sub and probably a bit further left than I showed

Regards

Mark


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

lizardking said:


> Hi! I have seen the drawing and you have put your surrounds and rear all in one line. Take ur surrounds above the closet and the left opposite above the fireplace. the height wont matter if you are able to tilt them down. about your second sub, what exactly is lacking when listening to one sub?


Not enough controlled bass. Had it in corner in top right and was way too much and rattled wall. 

Would also like better coverage in other seating positions


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

27dnast said:


> The folks at HSU might have an opinion. You can post your picture on their forum (or email it to their customer service) and see if they have an answer!


thanks for reply

Who are HSU?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

mark_anderson_us said:


> thanks for reply
> 
> Who are HSU?


HSU is an internet direct sub manufacturer.

I personally do not think REW is too hard to learn - it is just more a matter of purchasing the gear (roughly $200) and understanding the graphs produced. Fortunately, there are a few really helpful people in that forum that are willing to assist in understanding your results.


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## mark_anderson_us (Aug 20, 2012)

ALMFamily said:


> HSU is an internet direct sub manufacturer.
> 
> I personally do not think REW is too hard to learn - it is just more a matter of purchasing the gear (roughly $200) and understanding the graphs produced. Fortunately, there are a few really helpful people in that forum that are willing to assist in understanding your results.


thanks

i'm assuming it's just a good mic I need.Any reason I can't use the calibration mic from the Denon/Onkyo?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

2 (or more!) subs can be very useful for taming room modes and improving the overall SQ of the system; I also tend to place subs along the front with/near the mains, but using REW or the "subwoofer crawl" will help determine the _best_ place for the sub(s).

As for HSU, my guess is that it is a reference to HSU Research. They are a well-known manufacturer of quality subwoofers.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

mark_anderson_us said:


> thanks
> 
> i'm assuming it's just a good mic I need.Any reason I can't use the calibration mic from the Denon/Onkyo?


I am fairly certain that the calibration mic does not have the ability to work wth REW - if you get a chance, check out the sticky in the REW forum. It does a great job explaining what is needed to get up and running with REW.


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