# Do I need to invest in HDMI 2.0 right now?



## lvc10000 (Aug 10, 2013)

As recommended by Magic, I am starting this new post relating to the new HDMI 2.0 standard to ask you a question.

I am wondering about the new lot of AVRs that are about to be released as I am in the market for a new one but it actually relates to pretty much all the new gear that has the new HDMI 2.0 standard incorporated and the new UHD/4K formats.

I am slightly concerned that in the case of the new AVRs coming out this fall Onkyo seems to be the only one incorporating HDCP2.2 

Wouldn't that give you some possible issues when material becomes available in coming year(s)? :dontknow: 
(If my memory isn't failing me; I remember Joel Silver in January mentioning in my presence that HDCP 2.2 is clearly on the horizon and coming as the industry is gearing for it)

Wouldn't that possibly also be a deal breaker for the resale of latest HDMI 2.0 gear without HDCP2.2 capability a few years down the line?

Am I possibly wrong to look at such details? :nerd:
(Ok, I normally invest in the higher end side of equipment and keep them a few years rather than change every year) :sweat:


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## bassfeen (Dec 16, 2013)

To be honest the answer is no, the technology has not matured around 2.0 and it will take some time.


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

http://www.hdmiforum.org/press_release.aspx?prid=134

Some release info about Hdmi 2.0


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

More info 

http://www.cnet.com/news/hdmi-2-0-what-you-need-to-know/



Basically if you are planning to upgrade your TV in a 1-2 years I would look at the hdmi 2.0 in a receiver as you might be looking at a going to one of these TV's 
But they are very expensive right now.

But if you don't think you plan to I would 
Just get a regular receiver that does what I want it to do. If it is one that has hdmi2.0 great but...
Most likely I would hold off as this is the first round of AV receivers that have it.
So any handshake issues will need to be worked out first. And I'm not gonna be the person that gets to troubleshoot my hdmi 2.0 handshake issues.

Also you need the movies and the shows to take And benefit from the new standard. 

Another note Hdmi 2.2 may come next to fix what they found as handshake issues occurred in 2.0

Of course this could be all for not if their isn't any issues. But you will have to wait to find out.


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## Dodaleca (Jul 15, 2014)

I thought Onkyo has a low bandwidth HDMI 2.0 chipset (10.2 gbps?) which has a data rate equal to the top end of HDMI 1.4 (so maybe the same chip) which allows them to add the HDCP 2.2 chipset (but only on one input and output) while remaining cost competitive. HDMI 2.0 has a top specified data rate of 18 gbps to handle 4k 60 Hz 4:4:4 extended color gamut picture.

I think we are seeing several manufacturers saying an HDMI 2.0 update is coming via firmware for their higher end 2013 products is because there is an overlap of data transfer rate at the top end of HDMI 1.4 and the bottom end of HDMI 2.0 (to maintain some compatibility between older 1.4 devices and newer 2.0 devices?); this allows them to receive 4k 60Hz 4:2:0 data I believe.

I am in the same boat wondering if I should buy a good Onkyo (say NR3030 now hoping to use for many years) or a lower end Onkyo (say NR828 to get me through a year or two) and maybe get shafted if something like Bluray 4k comes out with HDCP 2.2 required. The Onkyos will be able to talk to the player but will have to handle a down resolution version of the picture (maybe 4k 4:2:0) in order to fit within their HDMI bandwidth limitation. Other 2014 AVR manufacturers have gone for a full bandwidth HDMI 2.0 chipset but only with the older version of HDCP (which means I still might be totally SOL if Bluray 4k requires HDCP 2.2 but the question is will there be a down resolution signal (say 1080p vs 4k) sent out if no HDCP present on the receiving end?). 

An alternative might be to buy separables with a good amp I'd intend to keep but with a minimal prepro with the intent to replace it once the market determines where things are headed.

So as much as I want something new I might try to last until the 2015 models are announced and there maybe somebody combining full bandwidth HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2. However, if my old faithful Pioneer Elite 49Txi dies (and it may as some inputs don't seem to work) then I'm very uncertain of what to do right now.

I have a 2013 4K LG LED tv that LG is supposedly developing an HDMI 2.0 update package for (currently only HDMI 1.4). So if I can upgrade my TV to HDMI 2.0 (with HDCP 2.2?) then I'm very hesitant to buy an AVR or pre/pro without the same. There might be the possibility of running just the sound to the audio processor (with HDMI 1.4 or 2.0 but without HDCP 2.2) and the 4K picture via HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 to the TV but that means the player would need two HDMI outputs with at least one HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 combination.

Sorry for the rambling post but I have a lot of thinking aloud going on here.


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## lvc10000 (Aug 10, 2013)

Thanks guys for your responses. I see that you have the exact same concerns that I have. :dontknow: :crying:

As HDMI 2.0 is a hardware change/upgrade with specifications I am surprised Onkyo could have a lower bandwith version under the 2.0 naming. It would be interesting if someone could actually confirm this point with certainty as it could also be a potential deal breaker.

But to my knowledge HDCP 2.2 (copy protection) is on our way for the new higher resolution content that will come out of the movie industry. It will be random 128 bit encryption checking the path every second or so. And we'll have to deal with it in the near future lddude:


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## lvc10000 (Aug 10, 2013)

Dodaleca said:


> I have a 2013 4K LG LED tv that LG is supposedly developing an HDMI 2.0 update package for (currently only HDMI 1.4). So if I can upgrade my TV to HDMI 2.0 (with HDCP 2.2?) then I'm very hesitant to buy an AVR or pre/pro without the same. There might be the possibility of running just the sound to the audio processor (with HDMI 1.4 or 2.0 but without HDCP 2.2) and the 4K picture via HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 to the TV but that means the player would need two HDMI outputs with at least one HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 combination.


Indeed, what a mess and headache it could potentially become.


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## lvc10000 (Aug 10, 2013)

I notice we are not the only ones on the forum with these questions: http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ocessors-amps/77458-do-i-need-hdmi-2-0-a.html


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## Dodaleca (Jul 15, 2014)

lvc10000 said:


> Thanks guys for your responses. Dodaleca, I see that you have the exact same concerns that I have. :dontknow: :crying:
> 
> As HDMI 2.0 is a hardware change/upgrade with specifications I am surprised Onkyo could have a lower bandwith version under the 2.0 naming. It would be interesting if someone could actually confirm this point with certainty as it could also be a potential deal breaker.
> 
> But to my knowledge HDCP 2.2 (copy protection) is on our way for the new higher resolution content that will come out of the movie industry. It will be random 128 bit encryption checking the path every second or so. And we'll have to deal with it in the near future lddude:


From another forum (AVS) that I visit is a quote from the following receiver section post (1st post in Dolby Atmos Comes Home in New Onkyo AVRs, Pre/Pro ):

"On the video side of things, eight HDMI 2.0 inputs and three outputs support 4K/UHD at 60 fps and a 21:9 aspect ratio, and one of the inputs and the main output support HDCP 2.2 copy protection. A second HDMI output can route 1080p video to a remote display with multizone control using a streaming and control app, and the third HDMI out is intended for a dedicated projector connection at up to 4K/UHD at 60 fps. *Unfortunately, the HDMI ports operate at 10.2 Gbps, not the full 18 Gbps of fully implemented HDMI 2.0, so they can't handle anything more than 4K/UHD at 60 fps with 8-bit, 4:2:0 color.*"

Sorry I'm in a rush and this is only my second post here so I can't post the link.


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## lvc10000 (Aug 10, 2013)

Very interesting...:T


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## Skrill (Feb 4, 2014)

I decided no after seeing that none of the upcoming receivers has everything implemented properly. The Denon's have HDMI 2.0 but no HDCP 2.2. Onkyo is vice versa.

That said -- since Denon is now the only game in town if you demand Audyssey (which I do) -- I wait for Denon to get everything straightened out. Since my display is only 1080p anyway (Sony 55ES PJ), I plan to wait a couple of years and check back.


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## lvc10000 (Aug 10, 2013)

You may be right to do just that. Here is an interesting read that came out this week which relates also to the current status of hdmi 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 http://hometheaterreview.com/is-your-ultra-hd-tv-really-an-ultra-hd-tv/


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## lvc10000 (Aug 10, 2013)

Have you guys noticed that Integra also states that the reviewed 50.6 integrates Atmos, HDMI 2.0 with @ 60hz and HDCP 2.2?
http://www.integrahometheater.com/model.cfm?class=Receiver&m=DTR-50.6&p=i

I'm going to take a guess that it is the same as for the new Onkyo 1030/3030 which actually doesn't quite cut it: *"Unfortunately, the HDMI ports operate at 10.2 Gbps, not the full 18 Gbps of fully implemented HDMI 2.0, so they can't handle anything more than 4K/UHD at 60 fps with 8-bit, 4:2:0 color."*


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## Skrill (Feb 4, 2014)

Did Integra (along with Onkyo) drop Audyssey in it's new products?

Edit: clicked on the link and saw "AccuEQ" .... so sad. They really could of differentiated the Integra line nicely be keeping Audyssey XT32 in the line up.


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## Dodaleca (Jul 15, 2014)

Unfortunately not possible if Integra is using the same hardware as Onkyo which is rumoured to be processor limited (not enough processing power to run both Audyssey and Atmos simultaneously).


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I can see Atmos being the wave of the future, but with the criteria of having to ad some overhead speakers it may be a waste of money for many "at the moment"...sort of like the 5k TV


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

Andre said:


> I can see Atmos being the wave of the future, but with the criteria of having to ad some overhead speakers it may be a waste of money for many "at the moment"...sort of like the 5k TV


I disagree 

And here is why...

4k has merit because people who are using projectors 1080p is grainy. 
The benefit just roles down hill into the TV market for 4k tv ( I'm assuming you meant 4k not 5k ) 

With atmos I think it's dead to me..... 
never gonna happen... are they living in the real world are you gonna cut holes in your ceiling ( stucco ). Then drill holes through the joists to run cables. 

What happens when you want to move around the furniture in the room by a few feet ( women do this ) 

I might be in the minority here but I'm not going for it; height and width were better ideas.

Atmos has no benefit to me because of were the speakers must be placed and the design. 

What do you all think about it ?


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## Dodaleca (Jul 15, 2014)

For the fun of it if I buy a new AVR (or pre/pro & amp) with Dolby Atmos then I will likely buy the Onkyo Atmos speaker pair to try out. I fear my old faithful Pioneer Elite 49Txi is on its way to electronic heaven as various connections have become inoperable over the last few years.

These speakers would sit on top of my Energy C9 towers at the front (plus maybe another pair on top of the rears) so no drilling or mounting required. 

They seem relatively cheap (~ $250 U$ per pair) for me to try to get the special effects by "ceiling bounce" unless the reviews say they're terrible before I get around to buying.

Search for Onkyo SKH-410 speakers (sorry not 5 posts yet to be able to post the link).


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Magic: Nope I meant 5k (LG has come out with 5K)

Atmos is on option for those planning a dedicated HT, Other than that I doubt it will take off. Now what I would REALLY like to see is a receiver that incorporates DTS Headphone X with some purpose built headphones to go with it form someone like AKG, Beyer Dynamic or Sennheiser. Also, unlike currently I would like the ability to plug in the headphones and still have all the speaker going, so that those that are hard of hearing or have a hard time with voices can have custom setup for themselves while the rest of the family gets the regular calibrated version


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## magic (May 23, 2011)

Thanks; I stand corrected 5k 


Here is a link to it 
http://m.techradar.com/news/televis...-this-year-for-a-wince-inducing-price-1259447


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