# I have to crank the volume to hear dialog?



## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

I have a yamaha HTR 5760 and JBL EC25,E60 for my fronts I have a problem with voices and low level sounds , I cant hear them unless i turn the volume almost all the way up . This works until the loud parts come on, then I'm running for the remote to turn it down .

Will someone please help me figure out my problem?
thanks jwhite8086


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## MACCA350 (Apr 25, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> I have a yamaha HTR 5760 and JBL EC25,E60 for my fronts I have a problem with voices and low level sounds , I cant hear them unless i turn the volume almost all the way up . This works until the loud parts come on, then I'm running for the remote to turn it down .
> 
> Will someone please help me figure out my problem?
> thanks jwhite8086


DVD soundtracks have a good dynamic range(the difference between the quietest and the loudest sound) and are generally mastered to use this range(compared to most music which has been heavily dynamically compressed).

If you don't like this, or you are listening late at night, your receiver will have a 'night mode' or 'dynamic compression' option that you can engage that will compress the dynamics. I only use this for late night viewing as it takes away from the experience and impact that the director has intended.

cheers


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## MACCA350 (Apr 25, 2006)

BTW, have you run the YPAO calibration? 

cheers


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Try the night mode, or high compression mode or whatever it is called by various manufacturers. This mode is also called DRC (dynamic range compression) and you could set that on the dvd player or the receiver. However if you use the dvd player digital output, DRC is effective only if you set that at the receiver. Here's other checklist:

1. Center channel at ear level?
2. Do you have an SPL meter? You would need that to balance the center channel against the other channels.
3. Is your subwoofer set too hot? If the sound from the subwoofer was changing your hearing threshold to the point that you would need to have the center channel play louder than the subwoofer- ouch. There is a general inclination everywhere to set the subwoofer level very high. You paid for a good one and it should be heard, right?
4. In the receiver's setup menu, check the distance setting for the center channel and the front channels.


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## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

MACCA350 said:


> BTW, have you run the YPAO calibration?
> 
> cheers


My 5760 did not come with a mic, so I have set everything manually am I missing something that only YPAO can do?


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## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

I also have a Sony DVP NS75H DVD with HDMI to the TV and optical to the reciever .
The TY is SONY 50 inch LCD projection with matching stand the center speaker is on the front edge of the upper shelf under the TV on two triangle shaped 2x4s to aim the center speaker at ear level . the speaker is 1.3 foot high 2 feet from the rear wall centered between 7.5 feet spaced front L,R and 8 feet to my seat.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> My 5760 did not come with a mic, so I have set everything manually am I missing something that only YPAO can do?


If that the case (you have no mic and can't calibrate for your own room), I'd suggest to turn off the YPAO.

In general, your problem of not being able to hear the center dialog is not due to a lack of YPAO. It _might be able to make things better, but you should still hear center dialog without it._


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## MACCA350 (Apr 25, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> My 5760 did not come with a mic, so I have set everything manually am I missing something that only YPAO can do?


If you have a SPL meter you can do the calibration manually(a calibration DVD will also help), but if you're not into doing all this manually the mic and YPAO can simplify things and get you 95% of the way and in most cases is ideal for those not interested in the more complex methods

cheers


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## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

I do have the radioshack spl meter and everything is calibrated , distance ,level, speakers set to small and svs pb 10 about 4 db over.

could this be the bright and thin sound I've read about yamaha's . or the small JBL center or maybe even my room and speaker placement?


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## MACCA350 (Apr 25, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> I do have the radioshack spl meter and everything is calibrated , distance ,level, speakers set to small and svs pb 10 about 4 db over.
> 
> could this be the bright and thin sound I've read about yamaha's . or the small JBL center or maybe even my room and speaker placement?


No this is a dynamics issue, see my first post.

cheers


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

There is a bit of everything, including dynamics,speaker positioning, hearing threshold and etc. One's hearing threshold increases after a period of listening to loud sound. That is to say, your ears' sensitivity automatically decreases. When that happens, it will take a rest period to restore one's normal sensitivity to sound. In the case of exposure to extremely loud sound over too long a period, the ears would never restore to the normal sensitivity, and hearing damage would be permanent.

I suppose that you took care of standing waves with REW and BFD?


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## MACCA350 (Apr 25, 2006)

MakeFlat said:


> There is a bit of everything, including dynamics,speaker positioning, hearing threshold and etc. One's hearing threshold increases after a period of listening to loud sound. That is to say, your ears' sensitivity automatically decreases. When that happens, it will take a rest period to restore one's normal sensitivity to sound. In the case of exposure to extremely loud sound over too long a period, the ears would never restore to the normal sensitivity, and hearing damage would be permanent.
> 
> I suppose that you took care of standing waves with REW and BFD?


You're confusing the issue, if you read jwhite's first post:


> I have a problem with voices and low level sounds , I cant hear them unless i turn the volume almost all the way up . This works until the loud parts come on, then I'm running for the remote to turn it down .


Its very clear that jwhite doesn't like the dynamics and 'dynamic range compression' will 'fix' his issue with it.

cheers


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

Sorry. I did confuse the issue by giving a multitude of reasons. 

You're absolutely correct. Jwhite should consider dynamic range compression first. Then if he had not looked at the FR of his sub, he would want to look at it just to find out if there were room induced peaks that could potentially be a factor.


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## jwhite8086 (Feb 4, 2007)

Thanks guys I've played with the dyamic range on the reciever before but for some reason i kept changing it back to max, I will try listing again with a min setting.
The Yamaha has 3 levels of night compression and a seperate 3 levels of dynamic range, are they really the same or is one better for what i need. There is also a audio filter setting on the DVD player with two settings I think one is Sharp and the other is ____ , but I dont know if this effects the optical output. I also thougt of using coaxial instead of optical but I was inclined to use the $100 monster reference optical I got for $25.

Would moving my center speaker back closer to the wall and ferther under the TV make the sound better or worse?

Thanks jwhite8086


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Hi jwhite,

You probably want max compression, but play around with the three settings. Max will give you the _least_ amount of difference between whispers and explosions.

I believe the "Night" mode only applies to Dolby Digital signals, and Yamaha has probably implemented it to that spec. Because there is no similar feature for other modes (such as DTS, or straight PCM stereo), Yamaha may have implemented their own dynamic range compression for situations just like this. I doubt they are exactly the same, but they may work similarly from the end user's point of view. Again, play with them and see what you think. 

I don't know about the audio settings on the DVD player...

Optical vs. coax should make no difference unless something's broken.

Moving the center around may modify the way that the speaker is interacting with the room, but it won't really address your complaint about the level differences from dialog to action. You can try it, of course, and it may help with some reflections or harshness, but I don't think it will fix your problem. 

Keep playing with the dynamic range stuff. I think your answer lies there. Watch the same clip of a movie over and over again with the different setting so that you're comparing apples to apples (and don't touch the volume, trims, etc. between "takes").

Good luck!


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

jwhite8086 said:


> Thanks guys I've played with the dyamic range on the reciever before but for some reason i kept changing it back to max, I will try listing again with a min setting.


Yamaha's have 3 "Dynamic Range" settings...

!. MIN...This will give the most compression of the audio signal..and the level will be fairly constant across the audio range..
2. STD...This is a better balance, giving a little compression and maintaining good dynamics and is what most people use.
3. MAX...No compression with a huge dynamic range and max. difference between soft whispers and explosions...Should only be used on some of the earlier DVD's that were VHS conversions or some of the older DD recordings, or you will find that at normal listening levels for voice, explosions could damage your speakers or sub...particularly on DTS disc's..


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

Is that the same as "night"? My "Night" DRC is Off-Min-Mid-Max, with Max being the most compressed. I see how you could look at it either way.


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## Prof. (Oct 20, 2006)

I think the "night" mode is something different again..I've never used it but I would imagine that you get a little extra bass boost for low level listening...with min. dynamics..


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