# Dual SB-2000's flat to 10Hz ???



## Sonnie

One of the fun parts of working with SVS is getting to try out different subs in my room from time to time. Most of you know I am a sub hog... always going overboard... and recently having eight 18's in my room. Granted they were indeed serious overkill in the grandest of ways, but it is fun to say you have them and tell others about them and their eyes pop open. :gulp: ... So the dual SI 18's are now with Joe (ALMFamily) in Wisconsin and I actually plan on removing my four remaining Fi subs in the rear. Ultimately I will have dual PB13-Ultras up front and dual PC13-Ultras in the rear... awesome it will be, no doubt about it.

But for right now... how about a pair of SB-2000's. Don't snuff your nose up so quickly... cause in the right room these babies will flat out rock. For the record, my room is a dedicated room 19.5' wide x 23.5' deep x 8.5' high and completely sealed. I am running an Onkyo 3010 receiver with the SB-2000's connected directly to the 3010 dual sub outputs. SVS Ultra Towers, Ultra Center and Bookshelf surrounds. 

I really thought it was going to be a challenge to get them placed right, but even with them both up in the front corners firing straight forward out into the room they fared pretty well. After a few different placement trials I opted for one being up on the stage in the corner and the other being about 1/3 from the side wall. 












Level variances are due to adjusting the level of the subs to the lower output sub.











With XT32 and Dynamic EQ On... looking pretty good.











The Ultra Towers with XT32... looking pretty good.











Of course I like my subs a little hot and the SB-2000's are very capable.











Music sounds really good... watched Vikings and it sounded pretty good too. Plan to watch a movie tonight and give them the real test. Crankin' it on up!

Remarkable... two little ole sealed subs flat to about 9Hz actually.


----------



## hyghwayman

SVS builds some truly amazing subs, thanks for sharing Sonnie.


----------



## Tonto

That is impressive, & the Ultra's + Subs is amazing. I can only imagine what the 13's are gonna sound like.

Do you exptect anything different with mixing the PB's with the PC's?


----------



## Sonnie

Tonto said:


> Do you expect anything different with mixing the PB's with the PC's?


Not really... they are fairly close overall, but I have never level matched my front and rear subs (intentionally), nor have any of them ever had the same response characteristics. What you heard when you were here was a mixture of sealed subs up front and ported subs in the rear. Later on I did seal up the ports in the rear, but that enclosure for the rear subs is 90ft³... vs the fronts I had were only 11ft³. I doubt I will really need them, but I seriously appreciate effortless bass in the end, and I won't ever feel comfortable with anything less.


----------



## TheLaw612

This is pretty cool to see a small sealed sub with this performance. I was wavering between dual SB2000's and dual PB1000's and ended up getting the PB1000's because I primarily watch movies. I still wish I would have at least tested out the SB2000's in my room though.


----------



## asere

Sonnie, glad you're loving working for SVS! You're so lucky in being able to take some subs home to try. 
Thanks for sharing!


----------



## tonyvdb

One day I want to get a second PB13U as I know that will fulfill my needs for a long time coming. Nice to see that even the two SB2000s exceed your expectations.


----------



## fokakis1

Sonnie said:


> Not really... they are fairly close overall, but I have never level matched my front and rear subs (intentionally), nor have any of them ever had the same response characteristics. What you heard when you were here was a mixture of sealed subs up front and ported subs in the rear. Later on I did seal up the ports in the rear, but that enclosure for the rear subs is 90ft³... vs the fronts I had were only 11ft³. I doubt I will really need them, but I seriously appreciate effortless bass in the end, and I won't ever feel comfortable with anything less.


I just added two sealed SI 15s in with my two ported SVS 12s. I was concerned about phase related issues, but after some tinkering with delay and polarity it all smoothed out quite nicely. 

I just realized a new appreciation for "effortless bass," as those were the best words I could think of when it all came together. I can never go back to life without it.


----------



## Basshead81

Just curious how much output the dual SB2000's are capable of @ 10hz?


----------



## fokakis1

That post Audyssey graph is truly beautiful.


----------



## powersteer

Do you mind re-running the test with a single SB-2000?


----------



## Sonnie

Sorry for the delay in posting, but I will try to get this measured for you soon. It will require finding the proper placement for a single unit and running Audyssey again, so it will have to be when I have an hour or two to work on it.


----------



## docevil

Excellent posting Sonnie, finding this is good timing as I am looking for a subwoofer solution for my sealed, medium sized 14'-8" x 20'-10" x 8'-5" room. I was previously trying to decide between a single PC13 Ultra and dual PB-2000's but I have reservations about both options. I wanted the advantages of a flat frequency response provided by going with dual PB-2000's but I also wanted my subs to 'dig deep' as the ultra is famous for. 

For my viewing habits (100% movies & television series) I had essentially eliminated sealed subs as an option based on what I was reading in various forums where the general advice seems to be ported subs for movies and sealed subs for music, how wrong I was apparently! My original budget was $1500 so both of my previous options were a $100 overshoot but the dual SB-2000's come in under budget!

Now, my only question is about volume. You were able to achieve a flat response with the dual SB-2000's but were they capable of filling your listening space at or at least close to reference levels? I realize my room is a bit smaller so I will have an advantage here.


----------



## Sonnie

Hey doc...

You won't be able to get to reference levels with the SB-2000's in the lowest octaves... that 20-25Hz area. I enjoy these at moderate listening levels, but I miss the rumble and tactile feel when I crank them up on movies. They sound really good, but I can definitely tell the difference of what I am missing. You would need between 3 and 4 SB-2000's to match the max output of a single PB-2000. So figure 7-8 to match dual PB-2000's. Dual PB-2000's would still be the way to go in your case. I will have dual PB13-Ultras in this room in a few weeks. You can also get the dual PB-2000's for $1,499. :T


----------



## Sonnie

Curiosity as to how loud they would play before breaking up... this is as loud as I could measure them with the sweep before I started getting an undesirable noise. :yikes:










The uttermost bottom sweep measurement is the original one I did back when I first measured it. As you can see... the louder I ran the sweeps, the higher frequencies increased more. Max SPL at 10Hz reached about 94dB for the subs combined. This is quite an impressive in-room response for a pair of SB-2000's.


----------



## Sonnie

Then there was some curiosity as to what each sub would do individually. I did not take the time to rerun Audyssey. I simply turned powered off to each sub while I ran the sweep thru the other sub. As you can see, about 87-88db max SPL at 10Hz for either sub, as other frequencies continued to rise. So I realized about a 6dB increase at 10Hz for dual SB-2000's.


----------



## Steve1533

Hi Sonnie,

I am considering a pair of SVS SB-2000 subwoofers, mainly for 2-channel music in a moderate sized room (26' x 12' x 8'). I have a couple of questions/themes that you and others may be able to comment on or answer:

(1) Are there any total harmonic distortion data vs frequency (measured at moderate levels, say 90 dB, where performance should be good) or group delay measurements available for this exact sub? Even say rough numbers from your own recent measurements? I am wondering how much the SB-2000 gives up in these areas relative to the stellar-specification big brother, SB-13U? How does the SB-2000 compare in these two areas to the SB-12-NSD, where there are good data available from Data-Bass?

(2) I would use these subs with a pro-audio speaker cross-over/processor with balanced outputs. I know how to connect the balanced output to the unbalanced sub input, but can the higher pro-audio line levels lead to damage of the SB-2000 input circuitry? The pro cross-over can attenuate the output fed to the subwoofer by up to 40 dB; would say a 10-15 dB attenuation give a rough signal-level alignment suitable for the SB-2000 input? Any general advice on using the SB-2000 safely with a pro-audio crossover?

Thanks for your thoughts and the great website,
-- Steve.


----------



## Sonnie

Check out Brent Butterworth's testing on the SB-2000. I think those would be more accurate and meaningful for you.

Although we see what I measured above... I did no limiting to distortion whatsoever. I did not hear any anomalies in the sound, yet that doesn't mean it wasn't there or would not be there on movies extending that low. I never had it turned up that loud under normal music listening. 

My thoughts are that you would hardly run into any distortion issues with music, even at louder volumes (not head-banging screaming loud, but moderately loud). They are very clean subs.

I have used a Behringer DSP1120p, DSP1124p, DCX2496 and DEQ2496 over the years... just recently quit using the DEQ Ultracurve (nice when you have multiple subs)... never had any issues with SVS subs. Because of the various processors/receivers I have had, I have used RCA to XLR and XLR to XLR with no issues. I don't think you will have issues, but if you give me the specific model of the processor/crossover you are going to be using, I can do more research and asking to see if there would be any issues... be happy to do so.


----------



## Steve1533

Sonnie, thanks for recommending Brent's article. Since I am new to some of these subwoofer specs, I had to go learn the CEA standard to see what his CEA max output measurements were telling me about THD, but I think I get it now. Nothing in Brent's article about group delay though.

As far as the cross-over processor, I am using an Ashly Protea 3.6SP. It is driven by an Ashly LX-308B stereo mixer. I use the mixer to connect, switch between, preamplify, and level-match various 2-channel sources (tuner, CD, DVD, computer/DAC). This (odd-ball) setup amounts to an unconventional preamp and amp implemented using all pro-audio gear. Since I drive my main speakers with a pro amp (Ashly SRA-2150) as well, the entire signal chain (excepting the noted signal sources) is at pro-audio signal levels, rather than at consumer-audio signal levels. As a result, the nominal signal level might be a bit different than your Behringer experiences, at least if your Behringer was operating near unity gain and was fed by consumer-audio-level sources.

You are likely right that things would likely work out. Basically, I am just trying to figure out if a bit of extra care and signal attenuation may be needed going into the SVS amp, as my typical levels may be higher than normal. If there is a maximum input level specification on the SVS amp in say, dBu or volts-rms, that may be useful, because the maximum output level of the Ashly processor is +20 dBu (not that I normally operate near this level...). I know this is an odd use configuration; thanks for any further information that you or SVS can provide. -- Steve


----------



## Sonnie

I am going to check with Ed on this... as he knows a lot more about it that I do. :T


----------



## orion

Sonnie I think you may have found your perfect job. I have heard nothing but good things about SVS subs. 

I am impressed that they were able to output as much as they did in the lower frequencies 

Keep up the good work


----------



## Sonnie

I hope you are right Bud... as I certainly enjoy it. :bigsmile:

And Steve... here is what Ed said: _The maximum input level is about 2Vrms before it starts to overload/clip the input stage. The gain sensitivity (defined as the minimum voltage required to drive the amp to full power when the gain is set to max) is about 200 mV. _

I hope that helps!


----------

