# Curious have you changed reciever just for HDMI?



## enrique (May 24, 2007)

I was debating it for a while but decided not to change my reciever just for the HDMI capabilities for fear that i dont think i would of been upgrading.So i'm asking here who has done so and was it worth it.I personally did not want to spend a good amount just for HDMI and then realize that the SQ was not as good as what i have now.If my reciever went down obviously that would be a different story.But just for the convenience of HDMI i decided not to.Just curious as to what the consensus is here.Also did anyone do so then realized that what you replaced was actually better than what you got.thanks


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

Nope, not me. I have no use for HDMI.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

I have considered it, and almost bought an Integra DTC-9.8 yesterday. However, I believe that my current Cary Cinema 11 is an excellent preamp, and I don't think that the HDMI audio "upgrade" would be that much of an improvement.


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## thxgoon (Feb 23, 2007)

I wouldn't make the change if it's strictly for HDMI. In every presentation I've seen the difference between 1080i component and 1080p HDMI was indistinguishable. Secrets wrote a great article about the differences beteween the two and had some good arguments for the latter but I'm just not enough of a videophile to see the difference (or care).

What are you running for a display? I have been considering the Integra lately as my current receiver does not convert video between s, and component so I have to send several cables to the projector and switch inputs. Having one cable would be a great solution and I'd like to upgrade to handle the lossless audio from HDDVD and Blue Ray to see if I could hear a difference. From subjective reviews on this website a few of the tracks are pretty impressive!


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## enrique (May 24, 2007)

My display is a 40" sony LCD which only has 1 HDMI which is beng used by a Tosh HDa1.i run everything else video wise thu component via my rec(Rotel).Unfortunately i cant utilize the HDaudio since my universal dvda/sacd player takes up the 5.1 analogs so the tosh is via dig. for audio.I'm not willing to sacrifice dvda/sacd.Which is why i was looking into getting a different rec.But none the less it sounds great as is.


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## Otto (May 18, 2006)

thxgoon said:


> What are you running for a display? I have been considering the Integra lately as my current receiver does not convert video between s, and component so I have to send several cables to the projector and switch inputs. Having one cable would be a great solution and I'd like to upgrade to handle the lossless audio from HDDVD and Blue Ray to see if I could hear a difference. From subjective reviews on this website a few of the tracks are pretty impressive!


Hey,

I'm using a 58" Panasonic 720p plasma (TH-58PE75U). I feed it a single HDMI cable, and my sources are switched using a Monoprice 3x1 switch. Sources are Denon upscaling DVD player (DVI), Dish Network ViP622 HD box (HDMI) and a Dell HTPC (DVI or HDMI). Everything works just fine!

The reason I'd want to dump the Cary is that they have replaced the Cinema 11 with the Cinema 11a. Long story short is that the 11a has HDMI audio processing and the 11 does not. There's quite a thread on the 11 vs 11a vs 11v at AVS, and people are upset by Cary for a few reasons on the debacle. I'd prefer to have the 11a, but 1) it's not available yet and 2) it'd cost me considerably more than $1k to "upgrade". I've not heard the lossless HD-DVD and BluRay formats, but I'm guessing that it probably wouldn't be worth it for me to go that route. I'm happy enough with the Cary that I will wait for now. I was very ready to get the Integra the other day (the check was in the mailbox and I took it out before the mailman took it). The main reason I didn't is that I think the Integra will be so feature-laden that I will have technical issues with it. I think there will be too many bugs and idiosyncracies that I will be frustrated by it. I love the beauty and simplicity of the Cary, and will stick with it for now.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

thxgoon said:


> I wouldn't make the change if it's strictly for HDMI. In every presentation I've seen the difference between 1080i component and 1080p HDMI was indistinguishable. Secrets wrote a great article about the differences beteween the two and had some good arguments for the latter but I'm just not enough of a videophile to see the difference (or care).


For me, the biggest reason to switch is not the video, it's the audio. If you have DD+ and DTHD sources, I'd consider it.

I thought about it, but I just don't have the scratch right now. That being said, my current pioneer has been finicky as of late. Sometimes I'll turn it on, and one of the channels one play. I turn it off, then turn it back on and all is fine. The best part is, it's a different channel every time, sometimes the center, sometime the Front left.

If it just up and quits on me, I'll find a way to get an Onkyo 805 ASAP, even if it means ebaying everything that's not bolted down and getting a second job.


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## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I had a Denon 3805 that I had for about a year. I upgraded to a Denon 2808ci for the HDMI 1.3 because I have a Toshiba HD-A2 and wanted the lossless audio. I can't say that I was really impressed by the 2808ci. Sure some of the new features were nicer than what the 3805 had. Surround sound was nicer, thanks to Audyssey I bet, but sound reproduction quality was not as good as the 3805.

If you don't need HDMI audio then it's really pointless to upgrade. A HDMI switcher can be had from monoprice for under $50. I'm still thinking I should have just upgraded to the Toshiba HD-A35 and stuck with the 3805 and used the 5.1 outs. One cable is nicer than 6 or 8 but sound quality come first I think.


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## enrique (May 24, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> I had a Denon 3805 that I had for about a year. I upgraded to a Denon 2808ci for the HDMI 1.3 because I have a Toshiba HD-A2 and wanted the lossless audio. I can't say that I was really impressed by the 2808ci. Sure some of the new features were nicer than what the 3805 had. Surround sound was nicer, thanks to Audyssey I bet, but sound reproduction quality was not as good as the 3805.
> 
> If you don't need HDMI audio then it's really pointless to upgrade. A HDMI switcher can be had from monoprice for under $50. I'm still thinking I should have just upgraded to the Toshiba HD-A35 and stuck with the 3805 and used the 5.1 outs. One cable is nicer than 6 or 8 but sound quality come first I think.


This is how i kind of feel about the whole thing.I may get a switcher my self since my 5.1 analogs are taken by my universal which i'm not going to sacrifice.


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## lcaillo (May 2, 2006)

I have not and continue to connect my sources directly to the set.


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## Guest (Feb 19, 2008)

I just bought a Pioneer Elite VSX-94THX, Toshiba HD-XA2 and a Samsung BP1400. It was obvious for me that i needed a new receiver because for the HDMI connectivity. So I have to say yes since i bought my HD-DVD player and Blu-ray player first. There was no other means for me to have access to the 7.1 channels since those players only has the 5.1 analog output and that their Toslink and coaxial won't give you Dolby true-HD or DTS-HD master audio. 

If I was only listening to music, my setup would be a lot different and i probably would not have change just for HDMI but since we really enjoy the Home theater experience, HDMI was the way to go.


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## enrique (May 24, 2007)

I've kind of been rethinking the whole thing.I've been looking into the marantz sr8002.Compared to my rotel(no HDMI) it has more power,toroidal transformer as well as hdmi.I've been offered a 8002 for 1400. which is a real good price.I do plan on getting a blue ray later ,have a tosh now.Being that i also have a universal player dvda/sacd which is currently taking up my analogs i figure that with the marantz i could utilize everything truehd as well as my universal at the same time as well as the extra power.since i do have 4ohm speakers.Just have to get off the fence and sell the rotel.


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## Guest (Aug 22, 2008)

It all really depends on whether you want Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD sound which can only be processed via hdmi v1.3a. I have a harmon/kardon AVR7200. I bought it when it was a flagship model. Not even three months back I bought the Onkyo TX-NR905 because my Samsung LN46A550 LCD HDTV and my Samsung BD-P1500 blu-ray player connect via hdmi and the 905 has the hdmi interconnects. Only drawback I have is my Samsung BD-P1500 Blu-Ray player only has (HDMI output: 5.1) The new Samsung BD-P2500 due out next month will have (HDMI output: 7.1) and is 2.0 compliant. (I need to ebay my h/k) Since only a couple of blu-ray players are 2.0 compliant right now, Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD can only be achieved through them and most new model A/V receivers. If you're running either 5.1 or 7.1 then it's well worth it too. You get better localization through your speakers if you can process True-HD & DTS-HD. Especially in a 7.1 surround system. It sounds phenomenonal.

You should try watching:
Batman Begins (Blu-ray) in Dolby TrueHD 5.1 &
Alien vs. Predator / Aliens vs. Predator Requiem (Blu-ray) English: DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 dizzy:WOW!:yay
I've already pre-ordered Iron Man: Ultimate Edition (Blu-ray) it has Dolby TrueHD 5.1 & Transformers: Special Edition (Blu-ray) in Dolby TrueHD 5.1
You should go to blu-ray . com and check out all the titles that have Dolby TrueHD & DTS-HD Master Audio
*****
Onkyo TX-NR905 AV Receiver
Samsung LN46A550 LCD HDTV
Samsung BD-P1500 soon to be Samsung BD-P2500 Blu-Ray
Onkyo DV-SP1000 DVD Player
Marantz Reference Series SA-15S1 SACD player
Pronto TSU9600 Color Remote Control
1pair - Axiom M60 v2 Floor Standing Speakers
Axiom VP150 v2 Center Channel Speaker
1pair - Axiom QS8 v2 Surround Speakers for my side surrounds since their Di-Pole.
1pair - Axiom M3 v2 Bookshelf Speakers for my rear forward facing surrounds.
1pair - Axiom M22 v2 Bookshelf Speakers for 2nd zone (pool room)
In one week will have: SVS PB13-Ultra Subwoofer
----------------------
...::: /\©|dCØЯΞ :::...


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## tbase1 (Nov 10, 2006)

happy with my tx-sr605. It's not close to my old denon avr4802 ,but i bought it for movies only.


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## organicled (Aug 10, 2007)

went from yamaha 5860 to Denon 3808 for the audio upgrade


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Dolby TrueHD is decoded to analog 5.1 by many HD players that have 5.1 multichannel analog audio outputs, whereas dts-HD MA is normally not. 

I have three way 5.1 analog audio switches ($25 Philips component switch PH61148) on both my upstairs and downstairs systems. Good enough for now, even though I have to use legacy dts when the source is dts-HD MA.


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## Raymond Leggs (Aug 23, 2008)

nova said:


> Nope, not me. I have no use for HDMI.


Me neither, I won't ugrade until my receiver blows out. :nerd:


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

One of the reasons for me to upgrade to HDMI was I wanted the ability to watch HD DVD and BluRay (a must as both HD formats are not allowed over component) I also upgraded from my Yamaha RX V995 to the Onkyo TX SR805 simply because of the better audio quality it offered. HDMI is a digital stream and this way there is no conversion of the digital signal to analog and back causing some quality loss. As already mentioned the new uncompressed audio is just amazing on some movies that have been released. If you have no intentions of buying into HD then HDMI has very little to offer.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> One of the reasons for me to upgrade to HDMI was I wanted the ability to watch HD DVD and BluRay (a must as both HD formats are not allowed over component)


To clarify, you can watch HD-DVD and Blu-ray High-def video over component. You do need HDMI for the High Def Audio though.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

eugovector said:


> To clarify, you can watch HD-DVD and Blu-ray High-def video over component.


Are you sure?? I tried to do this with my BluRay player and it only outputs the signal at 480p.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Worked with my A2 HD-dvd. Haven't tried blu-ray, but have always heard this to be the case.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Did some checking and 1080i is the highest you can get over component so there is another reason to go HDMI if you want 1080p from BluRay movies.
Also upconversion of SD DVDs is not allowed over component so you would loose out on that altogether.


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

tonyvdb said:


> Did some checking and 1080i is the highest you can get over component so there is another reason to go HDMI if you want 1080p from BluRay movies.
> Also upconversion of SD DVDs is not allowed over component so you would loose out on that altogether.


Backup DVD's that end up not having any CSS protection will upscale to 1080i on component.

The difference between 1080i60 and 1080p60 can be very difficult to detect. In fact some TV monitors with 48, 72 or 120 Hz refresh will do a better job of reverse Telecine (reverse 2:3 pull down) of 23.976 fps film source when fed 1080i60 rather than 1080p60 (where the pull down may not be done as well by the player but is burnt into the 1080p60 output).

Players that output a true 1080p24 (more exactly 23.976 fps) fed via HDMI to a display that can accept that and display at an exact multiple of that rate, do have a real *judder reduction *advantage. The whole HDMI video chain must support this including any AVR in the middle.


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## acommonsoul (Jan 30, 2008)

I did..I changed from an older pioneer to the new Onkyo 606 with 1.3 HDMI inputs. I am obsessed with blu-ray and love the new uncompressed audio formats. Once you hear a good TrueDoldbyHD you will never want to listen to compressed soundtracks again.


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## Vader (Jul 8, 2006)

bobgpsr said:


> Dolby TrueHD is decoded to analog 5.1 by many HD players that have 5.1 multichannel analog audio outputs, whereas dts-HD MA is normally not.
> 
> I have three way 5.1 analog audio switches ($25 Philips component switch PH61148) on both my upstairs and downstairs systems. Good enough for now, even though I have to use legacy dts when the source is dts-HD MA.


Bob, how are these switches working out for you? I would really like to go this route, but I have some reservations. I tried the powered version right above the one you use, and had several problems: The speaker balance was really messed up after connecting (maybe a different impedance on the video or something?), and I got a really nasty hum (I think because it was powered?). I also worry about how transparent it is. I currently have my HD805 HD-DVD player connected to the analog ins on my AVR, and recently went purple with a Pioneer BDP-05FD Blu-Ray player. I intend on upgrading my AVR to HDMI once I can get one at a price in my budget with a Reon for upscaling, and really don't want to pay $260 for a Zektor for a temporary fix. So, it's either this, or I limit one of the HD players to SPDIF... What do you think?


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## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Vader said:


> Bob, how are these switches working out for you?


I worried about audio degrading due to solid state or limited bandwidth switching that you get with many remote controlled versions of an AV switch. That is why the PH61148's cheaper mechanical switching with Direct Circuit, zero ohm series impedance, can be better than solid state, capacitor (AC) coupled, switches that might not have flat audio frequency response in the bass regions.

I have been happy with the switches performance so far. It might be possible for them to pick up some external induced hum due to incomplete shielding -- but I have not noticed any.

If you must have remote control then I would look to getting a 6 pole switch that uses electromechanical relay switching like the Zektor MAS3, but unfortunately it is now discontinued (and was expensive).


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## Vader (Jul 8, 2006)

Thanx, Bob!

It looks as if I am going to be sticking with SPDIF after all for the immediate future. My new Blu Ray player looks to have a fixed crossover of about 120Hz (?!?) based on some empirical testing with REW, which would leave a significant bass hole in my overall response. Odd that my DV-HD805 has a much more complete analog section than Pioneer's current flagship Elite player...


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

I have not switched ONLY for HDMI, but it was the strongest reason.

If the receiver doesn't have HDMI, it usually causes "lip-sync" problems. There are offsets, but these have to be set for each source -my blu-ray had a different setting than my DVD-R and they seemed to vary at times and need resetting. No further problems (since switch to HDMI receiver).

It is also a lot easier to connect, in that my old receiver was not HD enabled & required me to run interconnects to each channel of my blu-ray, then bypass my preamp. That’s 6 interconnects for 5 channels and 8 for 7.1. It would be best to use the same make, model, length, interconnects...and that can get pretty pricey.

Overall, it was the right choice to go to HDMI.

Doug


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

You know I just saw this thread and I just went the opposite way.

I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH which has 4 HDMI inputs and an array of the latest DTS-HD MA and TrueHD decoding and it has served me well after selling my Halcro SSP-200 pre-pro becasue of upgrade problems. The Pioneer Elite was not as good as the Halcro which also switches HDMI but it was the best receiver I heard after trying it a Denon 3808 and a Onkyo 805 in home.

I just picked up a EAD TheaterMaster 8800 Pro which does not have HDMI but does have 8 channel analog input so I feed my Oppo BDP-83 analog outs to it. 

I already posted my thoughts in this thread:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...processors-amps/20856-ead-enlightened-me.html

Since EAD is no longer in business I won't be getting a HDMI upgrade anytime soon:hissyfit:
But if you read my thread you will see it is not a downgrade at all.


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## GregBe (Apr 20, 2006)

sub_crazy said:


> You know I just saw this thread and I just went the opposite way.
> 
> I have a Pioneer Elite VSX-94TXH which has 4 HDMI inputs and an array of the latest DTS-HD MA and TrueHD decoding and it has served me well after selling my Halcro SSP-200 pre-pro becasue of upgrade problems. The Pioneer Elite was not as good as the Halcro which also switches HDMI but it was the best receiver I heard after trying it a Denon 3808 and a Onkyo 805 in home.
> 
> ...


Interesting. I have the 94TXH as well. Do you miss (or did you even use) the Pioneers MCACC. I really like what it does to the sound, when I A/B it against not using it, but of course I am not comparing it to higher quality amps and processing?


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

GregBe said:


> Interesting. I have the 94TXH as well. Do you miss (or did you even use) the Pioneers MCACC. I really like what it does to the sound, when I A/B it against not using it, but of course I am not comparing it to higher quality amps and processing?


In my old home I preferred to not use MCACC but in my new home MCACC is clearly better. 

I did try the 94TXH by-itself first, then using it as a pre-amp for the PM2000 and both times turned MCACC on and off to compare.

Since you have the 94TXH I don't have to tell you how good a receiver it is so I was shocked at the difference between it and the TM8800 Pro/Oppo combo.

The more I think about it though if the TM8800 Pro is doing what it is supposed to do which is to just pass through unharmed the analog outputs of the Oppo and only provide volume control then the Oppo is the real star. I did try analog outs for Blu-ray before with 2 other excellent pre-pro's but then I was using a Panasonic DMP-55 and the 94TXH was clearly better with bitstream from the same Blu-ray. I read somewhere that the new $2K+ Pioneer Elite Blu-ray player is even better than the Oppo through the analog outs but at that price I will pass.

Even though the EAD TM8800 Pro doesn't have room correction I do use a Velodyne SMS-1 to eq my subs and the sound is phenomenal. I used the SMS-1 with the 94TXH as well and it was tuned to exactly the same response with each so that is not were the difference is.


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

Mike in San Dimas: Party on Dude!
:yay2:
Love,
Bill and Ted

Seriously though, I recognize the quality of your system :hail: and if I had that system...I'd have no place to put it. :gah:

As for me, being old and short in the wallet :spend:, the HDMI approach is better. Better primarily because of convenience. Were I pursuing the ultimate home theater, I'd steal yours...addle:

Having fun with emoticons:jump:
Doug


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

You are a very excellent barbarian:bigsmile: Party on Dude:neener:

HDMI is great but I am waiting for the Wild Stallion version as this will be most excellent:rofl:

On the real I was just putting another option out there for people who already have a great receiver or pre-pro with multi-channel analog inputs. The Oppo is a little pricey at $500 but if you have a top of the line receiver or pre-pro then you don't have to toss it:nono:

I was just trying to be :innocent: and don't want to :boxer: you don't have to :spend: or :surrender: your receiver if you really like it:rolleyesno:

I do have something for you if you want to steal my stuff though :explode::boxer:addle::rant::gah::yikes::hissyfit::foottap::wits-end::neener::thumbsdown::demon::hsd:

I think I have used up my allotment of emoticons for the yeararty::fireworks2::fireworks1:


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## drbrousters (Aug 24, 2009)

"I think I have used up my allotment of emoticons for the year"

Year??!!!!! How about LIFETIME??!!!!!!!! Even if you are re-incarnated!!!!!

Actually, I wasn't offended by your alternative...just jealous...not in any way resentful. I have neither the room nor the money to go as upscale as you have. Seriously, wish I could.

My motto: Turn it up, my ears quit bleeding.

Doug


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## GregBe (Apr 20, 2006)

sub_crazy said:


> In my old home I preferred to not use MCACC but in my new home MCACC is clearly better.
> 
> I did try the 94TXH by-itself first, then using it as a pre-amp for the PM2000 and both times turned MCACC on and off to compare.
> 
> ...


Cool, Thanks for your thoughts.


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## sub_crazy (Nov 17, 2007)

drbrousters said:


> "I think I have used up my allotment of emoticons for the year"
> 
> Year??!!!!! How about LIFETIME??!!!!!!!! Even if you are re-incarnated!!!!!
> 
> ...


Man I am going to miss those partying emoticons, I didn't even know they were there. 

I like you motto Doug, you got a great sense of humor and hopefully you will post here more often.


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## SteveCallas (Apr 29, 2006)

No, I'm sticking with my Yamaha 5890 for the foreseeable future. I send video over HDMI to my display and audio over optical to my receiver. There are still more HDMI revisions in the works, and my receiver works and sounds just fine, so I'm in no hurry.


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