# Secondhand projectors dilemma



## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

Ok, well recently a projector came up for sale on another forum I am a member of, and this got me interested in getting one again. Well, where to start. I guess I'll start by saying that I have read the stickies about buying your first projector and about screens as well, so I know that I should really be choosing a screen first. But considering I know what conditions the projector would be used in, and that there are a few selections of projector, I might as well post before spending money. It can't hurt anyway, better than wasting money.

So the room that would be used is pretty much undecided, but would most likely be the current lounge room until (if) I can use another room for a HT room. Currently, movies and other programs are only watched in the evening and if a projector was to be used, it would only be used for movies and a few TV series, not just randomly channel browsing. When watching at the moment, I have a light in the corner of the room on dim, only just enough that the room isn't completely black, as, if it is then the 29" CRT TV can be a bit dazzling at times. But all of the lights in the room are completely adjustable and could be dimmed further or turned off for projector viewing.

So hopefully that is enough info, now on to the question.

Currently, I have a Toshiba TDP-S20 DLP projector sitting behind me with a blown bulb. It was given to us as the guy had upgraded his whole HT system when this happened. Now iirc, a new bulb for one of these is about 300NZD and of course is predicted to last about 2000-3000 hours. It is listed on the Toshiba site as being a data projector, and it has always been my understanding that it isn't optimal to use these for HT as they don't have as high of a contrast and various other stuff. 
All the specs are here: http://www.toshiba.ca/web/product.grp?section=1&group=223&product=3230

Now, the one on the site was labeled only as a NEC 720p/1080i CRT projector, and I'm currently asking the guy for the model number. So far it has only had 1500 hours or so of use, and I understand that these last for at least 10000 hours, so quite a bit more life than a new bulb for the other one. He wants 350NZD for the projector itself, and estimates 150NZD for shipping, total of around 500NZD then. As I don't know any other stuff about this projector it is kinda hard to say which would be better value for money, and that would be what is most important.

One more question, what exactly do you need spec-wise for a projector to be considered adequate for HT use?


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

> Now, the one on the site was labeled only as a NEC 720p/1080i CRT projector


I'd be giving a 2nd hand CRT a wide birth. Better off getting a new lamp for your DLP.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

Mark Techer said:


> I'd be giving a 2nd hand CRT a wide birth. Better off getting a new lamp for your DLP.


Why would this be? Is it just one of those things that would really need to be tried before buyed (lol)? Is the Toshiba worth getting a bulb for, like, would it give decent enough performance to justify the cost of the bulb? (my expectations aren't super high, I just want something bigger than the 29" tv so I don't end up with a picture that it like 6" high when playing a CinemaScope format movie. Picture quality just has to be at least as good as the current TV and I'll be happy enough)


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Rear projection CRT TVs if maintained will give a stunning HD picture still the best blacks out there and they handle multiple resolutions much better than LCD or Plasma. There is no reason other than the amount of space they use to not at least go and check it out. The big issue is that you dont know how it was treated nor do you have any guarantees that it will last.
Muli media projectors are better than nothing if your looking for a big screen picture and given all it needs is a new bulb it may be worth it. Have you looked for a used 720p home theater projector?


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Rear projection CRT TVs if maintained will give a stunning HD picture still the best blacks out there and they handle multiple resolutions much better than LCD or Plasma. There is no reason other than the amount of space they use to not at least go and check it out. The big issue is that you dont know how it was treated nor do you have any guarantees that it will last.
> Muli media projectors are better than nothing if your looking for a big screen picture and given all it needs is a new bulb it may be worth it. Have you looked for a used 720p home theater projector?


It is my understanding that the projector I was looking at is a front projection device, unless of course I'm missing something and CRT projectors are designed to project onto the rear of a screen? (I not really an expert in this field, haha) The current TV being used is a 29" Sony something and yes, it does give a pretty good picture, but doesn't seem to handle menus and other things with smallish text very well, but that doesn't matter too much. It cost a fair amount back in the day too. I'm not really interested in a LCD or plasma TV anyway because almost every model I've seen seems to make the picture look too HD (possible?), it's hard to explain, but it is like it is filmed with a HD camcorder that has image stabilization on. Which is why I'm more interested in a projector, as they don't seem to do such a thing.

Well I've had a bit of a browse, I'll search a little deeper when I get up (should really be going to sleep now, 2AM). Do you think I would be able to find a used HT projector for not too much more than the cost of the bulb for the other one? 
Also, what exactly is the difference between a HT projector or data projector aside from the company marketing it as such?


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## RBTO (Jan 27, 2010)

Just some perspective. I recently purchased a second HT projector off eBay for about $1000. I've seen the same projector (a Panasonic AE2000) go for less, but you need to understand what you are getting.

A HT projector has a "native resolution" (the number of pixels in the vertical and horizontal directions) which matches a typical HD video source like a Blu-Ray player. This makes it unnecessary to "interpolate" information that is shown on the screen. Interpolation (calculating and guessing at some of the pixels based on others nearby) tends to degrade the image, though in a lot of cases, it's not that objectionable. HT native resolution is 1080v x 1920h pixels or 720v x 1280h which leads to the terms 1080 and 720. If you get a 720 projector, 1080 information (from a Blu-Ray) will be interpolated downwards to fit the pixels. This isn't a big deal but you have less resolution on the screen. How that matters, depends on how large the image is in your field of vision. Larger means you can see finer details and 1080 would be better. 1080 to a 1080 projector is the best you can hope for (right now).

On the other hand, a _data_ projector pixel layout is sized to fit the output of a _computer_. One common computer standard is 800v x 600h. HT video must be interpolated to fit this pixel array and you can lose image quality. Aside from the pixel problem, a good HT projector (the Panasonic line for example) is tweaked to better handle HT video. It has improvements in a number of things that can make the video look a _lot_ better. Data projectors normally don't strive for a "steller" image the way HT projectors do. They excel in things like brightness and text clarity, and being compact so they can be transported easily. HT projectors really are good at what they are designed for - the picture, good black levels, quietness, the picture - you get the idea.

My recommendations: Like Mark said, stay away from the CRT projectors (used). They can accumulate a lot of problems and may not even be serviceable (or cost a lot of $$) to bring them back to usable order.

Your data projector will probably work for HT, but down the road, I would consider either a good quality used or new projector made for HT use. Prices are dropping all the time and this forum, eBay, and other forums are good sources for used projectors (just be very careful making a used purchase!!). Likewise, there are many new projector sources, some of which advertise on this forum, which carry good equipment.

Given your stated expectations, however, I would go for the bulb. 

Good Luck in your decision.


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## artinaz (Jul 31, 2008)

Depends on how much effort you are willing to put in learning about it and setting it up.

CRT projectors take up a lot of space- the size of a big suitcase, weigh a ton- 150-180lb. Are a pain in the to get up on the ceiling. Takes some effort setting up.

On the good side- they give you awesome blacks- better then the 3000$ digital projectors out there- which results in better contrast. Some of them have color corrected lenses and when calibrated gives you awesome colors. These are so cheap right now- on craigslist you can have these for 100-300$ in the US.

Again the bad is that many of these are several years old (1986-1990) and you dont know what conditions its been in and how much work is involved. 

On the good side again- there is a very helpful site at curtpalme.com who will help with answers and get up setup right. 

I have had several CRT projectors (NEC XG, PG, Marquee) and a JVC RS-15. The CRT takes some work but is much cheaper and will do 1080i/1080p, but will not work too good with room lights on. Digitals are going to be brighter, sharper, more expensive, you will have bulb expenses, motion resolution and black levels are not going to be as good, but setup is going to be a snap. 

In the end, it all depends on the asking price and how much time you have for this stuff.


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## jimjim (Jul 24, 2009)

Ok, thanks for all the help guys! Size and time spent aren't as important as cost and image quality.

As someone suggested up the page, I had a look on some other sites and came across this local dude selling a fair bunch of projectors. I'll list them here:
SONY VPH 1041QM CRT $150
EPSOM EMP 1710 $460
MITSUBISHI LVP-X250U $300
Epsom EMP 5550 $60
EPSOM EB-X6 $230

Bottom 2 require bulbs.
All prices in NZD

I'm going to give him a call tomorrow and ask if he is open for a demo or 2. I'm pretty sure a few of them are data projectors, but a few seem to be HT ones as well (or old school HT anyway, doesn't bother me) 
Do any of you have any experience with any of these? Are any of them particularly good or better than the other listed there?

Thanks for all the help!


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## artinaz (Jul 31, 2008)

150 NZD is approx 120 USD

Now at those prices I would stay away. If you are going to go CRT, you should get at least one of the NEC 6pg series or an NEC XG, or a Marquee 8100 up. There is a chart on curtpalme.com that has the projector ranking. At minimum you need a CRT with EM focus, 8 inch tubes and 650 lumens, capable of doing 1080i.

Azi


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