# Emotiva vs Outlaw vs ATI



## Brutus814 (Nov 18, 2013)

Hi all, I have been reading posts on the Shack for a couple years now as I have been slowly building my home theater. I greatly appreciate everyone's posts and responses. I have run into a dilemma and haven't been able to make up my mind about amps. I will usually read lots of reviews and audition what I like and finally feel good about a decision, but I haven't been able to come to a conclusion on this one yet. My current set-up is Paradigm Studio 100/CC-690 for LCR and ADP-590 for rears with an SVS PB13-Ultra for sub. I have an old AVR that I bought a year ago that is supposed to go into the living room eventually and I am looking to upgrade to a processor/amp combo. I was initially looking at the Integra DHC 80.3 but more recently have been looking at the Marantz AV8801 as the processor. I am torn on which amp to get. I have read a lot of good user reviews of the Emotiva XPR-5 but no professional reviews yet. The Outlaw Audio 7900 got good reviews and sounds pretty nice as well. I guess my question is, which one do you think would be better? The Emotiva looks to have more power and more capacitance but the Outlaw is fully balanced. I'm not sure if either of these makes a big difference. I currently only have a 5.1 setup, but plan on upgrading to 7.1 eventually, so the number of channels isn't a problem (I could just get another Emotiva amp when I upgrade to 7.1). Then, if the Outlaw is better, would it be better to just get a 3000 series amp from ATI (since Outlaw is made by ATI)? Thanks in advance for your responses and advice!


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

For just a few dollars more (relatively speaking) you could get the equivalent Onkyo /Marantz AVR instead of the stand alone processor and it would handle that nice speaker system just fine and leave some nice coin in your pocket to boot.
Once in a while I think about acquiring external amplification and my wish list is :
McIntosh (ain't going to happen)
Parasound (ain't going to happen either)
Outlaw (unlikely but possible)
I like the way McIntosh looks and I have always wanted it, Parasound has excellent specs and has enough upscale appeal to brag about, Outlaw seems to be a very solid working man's affordable amp that you never hear anything negative about.


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## expresso (Oct 12, 2008)

Hi - i just got the Emotiva UMC 200 with the XPA 5 Amp - i am impressed so far - i got it setup over the weekend - and i was worried at first but i am loving it more each day - i had the Marantz 7002 AVR and with a GX 5 QSC amp for the fronts - using the pre outs on the AVR - i have Klipsch 82's - 5.1 setup - 
now i had no problem with that setup - i did have some hiss with that setup - i guess the GX 5 gains etc, and pre outs on the AVR - must have caused the minor Hiss from the speakers - and i did have a problem with speech with movies - unless i raised the volume - it was a bit hard to hear - if i ran the marantz alone - using the marantz amps etc, - it was a bit better but still not as good as i would have liked - 

now moving on - i went with the Emotiva - and i am not regretting it so far - the XP5 can really work my 82's - i was worried being a 200 watt amp - since i was used to the Pro Amp rated much higher - 

but no worries now - this is much smoother - deeper bottom end - but clean - just rich full sounding and clear - details are great - watching a movie is excellent now with the vocals - i can watch it late at night on low volume and still hear the center channel very clear - i was excited about this - i did not expect it to be that good - even with music - Classical is so much better now - its a much quieter setup - overall than the AVR and Amp combo - or just the AVR - 

i just listened to this for the past two days - so i am still getting used to it and adjusting the setup etc, 
i am not sure which part is making the big difference - is it the Amp or the pre pro - or both - 

who knows if just adding the Amp to the marantz as the pre pro only - how that would have sounded - but i think the UMC 200 is very nice - i wanted a simple small unit and thats what this it - its great for my needs - just using Two HDMI in and one out to the TV - oppo and two analogs being used for my Two CD players - works great - i also kept my GX 5 amp and will be using it to run another set of Klipsch for just two channel connected to the UMC also - since i am using a 5.1 - the extra two channels are going to the GX 5 and this will give me the same signal as the front left and right channels - 
its called - Bi Amp - in the UMC menu - and it works fine - 

if you dont need all the other features from a AVR - i would try it out - see if you like the UMC and XPA 5 

i cant see how you wont like it - but never know till you try it -  post back with what you end up with - like to hear about it -


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## Dougme57 (Sep 4, 2013)

I would agree, get you a big receiver like an Onkyo , Denon or Marantz and save your money. Did you notice the XPR requires a dedicated 20 amp circuit and a 20 amp plug?


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Brutus814 said:


> Hi all, I have been reading posts on the Shack for a couple years now as I have been slowly building my home theater. I greatly appreciate everyone's posts and responses. I have run into a dilemma and haven't been able to make up my mind about amps. I will usually read lots of reviews and audition what I like and finally feel good about a decision, but I haven't been able to come to a conclusion on this one yet. My current set-up is Paradigm Studio 100/CC-690 for LCR and ADP-590 for rears with an SVS PB13-Ultra for sub. I have an old AVR that I bought a year ago that is supposed to go into the living room eventually and I am looking to upgrade to a processor/amp combo. I was initially looking at the Integra DHC 80.3 but more recently have been looking at the Marantz AV8801 as the processor. I am torn on which amp to get. I have read a lot of good user reviews of the Emotiva XPR-5 but no professional reviews yet. The Outlaw Audio 7900 got good reviews and sounds pretty nice as well. I guess my question is, which one do you think would be better? The Emotiva looks to have more power and more capacitance but the Outlaw is fully balanced. I'm not sure if either of these makes a big difference. I currently only have a 5.1 setup, but plan on upgrading to 7.1 eventually, so the number of channels isn't a problem (I could just get another Emotiva amp when I upgrade to 7.1). Then, if the Outlaw is better, would it be better to just get a 3000 series amp from ATI (since Outlaw is made by ATI)? Thanks in advance for your responses and advice!



Hello,
If seriously considering the AV8801, the Denon AVR-4520CI makes a great deal of sense. At least it did for me. Provided XLR's and a copper plated chassis are not a deal breaker, the Denon offers almost the same feature set as they are two sides of a coin. The Denon's Preamp Only Mode works quite well and the internal amplifiers offer flexibility for Zones and whatnot. While I have never connected a speaker cable to the Denon, I do consider the amps to be a cheap multizone amp. Better still, the Denon costs $1000 less than the Marantz.

I am personally a huge fan of the Outlaw and if my Parasound HCA-2205AT stopped working today, I am 99% sure that is the one I would choose. Still amazing to me that the Outlaw costs less than the Parasound I purchased a few years after graduating university circa 2002. That being said, you are certainly lousy with choices.
Best,
Jack


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## expresso (Oct 12, 2008)

Yes the XPR does - not the XPA -


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## Dougme57 (Sep 4, 2013)

The op said xpr.


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## Glen B (Jun 11, 2013)

Brutus814 said:


> Hi all, I have been reading posts on the Shack for a couple years now as I have been slowly building my home theater. I greatly appreciate everyone's posts and responses. I have run into a dilemma and haven't been able to make up my mind about amps. I will usually read lots of reviews and audition what I like and finally feel good about a decision, but I haven't been able to come to a conclusion on this one yet. My current set-up is Paradigm Studio 100/CC-690 for LCR and ADP-590 for rears with an SVS PB13-Ultra for sub. I have an old AVR that I bought a year ago that is supposed to go into the living room eventually and I am looking to upgrade to a processor/amp combo. I was initially looking at the Integra DHC 80.3 but more recently have been looking at the Marantz AV8801 as the processor. I am torn on which amp to get. I have read a lot of good user reviews of the Emotiva XPR-5 but no professional reviews yet. The Outlaw Audio 7900 got good reviews and sounds pretty nice as well. I guess my question is, which one do you think would be better? The Emotiva looks to have more power and more capacitance but the Outlaw is fully balanced. I'm not sure if either of these makes a big difference. I currently only have a 5.1 setup, but plan on upgrading to 7.1 eventually, so the number of channels isn't a problem (I could just get another Emotiva amp when I upgrade to 7.1). Then, if the Outlaw is better, would it be better to just get a 3000 series amp from ATI (since Outlaw is made by ATI)? Thanks in advance for your responses and advice!


I don't think you will find any significant performance differences among the three brands. I would pick the one that offers the best combination of features, price, and ease of getting service if ever needed.


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## Brutus814 (Nov 18, 2013)

Thank you for all of your responses. I will keep you updated on what I end up choosing.


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I will agree that a receiver should be enough for those speakers, especially the higher end Onkyo/Denons (e.g. Onkyo 5010) but the smaller ones should be fine aswell. IF you have your heart set on separates and want a 7.1 setup you are going to have to go with 2 Emotiva's or the Outlaw 7700 or 7900, however, for the same price as the 7900 you can get a master series NAD M25. Another option is the purchase a upper tier receiver (not the top), and if you feel you need more power, purchase a 3 channel amp for the front end and use the receivers internals for the surround channels and perhaps zone 2


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## noirx7 (Nov 21, 2013)

My experience with home audio and now with hd music is that speakers and amps evolve the least and the processing unit, preamp, dac ..., change constantly. My approach, considering that I can afford it these days, is to buy a great amp and speakers that you can hang on to for a good stretch, and get a separate processor, two channel or multi. Eventually the processor will be surpassed in tech and you can upgrade when you are ready. A receiver like the denon is a great overall product, but when you do outgrow it, the amp section will not be the best and the processing part outdated. So you can cobble a new amp or new processor, but you are always one step behind. I think too that the future in affordable multi channel dacs is near and using that with a 5 or 7 channel amp may provide anyone with a relatively affordable system that leaves today's $5,000 plus systems in the dust.


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## expresso (Oct 12, 2008)

its a little over a week that i got my new Emotiva XPA 5 amp and the UMC 200 pre pro to try something new - this if my first time with Emo - and was a little concerned just for the fact that i am not sure if i would get any improvement over what i was using - which was the Marantz 7002 - with a QSC GX 5 for the fronts only - pre outs from the Marantz - now i though it was great then and it was loud - the GX 5 has more than enough power and its in your FACE kind - 

so i gave this a shot - and i am very impressed with it - the XPA 5 200 watt rating - sounds so much less than the GX 5 500 watt - now that i am using the EMO combo - i wont go back - its a huge difference - the sound is more detailed - smoother - quieter - and LOUD - i never heard my Klipsch 82s sound this great - hard to explain the difference - i am still adjusting to it - but i dont regret this purchase at all - 

i still the GX 5 in my rack and its connected to the EMO pre pro - to power another set of Klipsch in stereo - since the EMO pre is 7 channel - and i have a 5.1 setup with two extra older Klipsch - so i can use the extra two channels from the EMO to power the other set of speakers - it has a feature which it can give off the same signal as the two fronts left and right - to the extra channels which are not in use - so it works great - i just turn one amp off and use the GX 5 when i want - just two channel - 

anyone who is not sure - i say give it a shot - cant go wrong i think - a friend of mines had EMO for a few years - he finally got me to try it and glad i did now - its so much smoother for music and so powerful 

i cant say how it compares to Outlaw or ATI amps - but it has balls and for a great price - happy with it 
i will miss my marantz which i still like and think its a very nice unit for a AVR - 

handing it over to a friend to enjoy - everyone is happy


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

Have you experimented using the 7002 and the XPA vs the UMC? I wonder how the video and audio conversion differs. Also the room correction software, I understand the 7002 is a few generations behind in both video processing and Audyssey but perhaps it would give an incaling of how a newer receiver as a preamp would compare. I was on the bandwagon with the UMC first came out but it has so many problems and poor reviews I shied away from it thinking I would look at there next attempt, however the XMC-1 is out of my price point


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## expresso (Oct 12, 2008)

i had that idea also at first - but the reason i didnt want the 7002 was the fact i didnt need 90% of those connections - all i needed was two HDMI in and ONE out to TV - i have two CD players and the Oppo Dvd -
Roku box - thats it - so i wanted to keep it simple and slim profile - now all my stuff fits in my Rack where before i had the 7002 on the outside on top - not a big deal - but i was ready for a upgrade - i was worried about the UMC also from reading - all i can say is - i dont find anything at all wrong with the UMC - i ran the setup and its very very good - i do have room treatment i did a few years back - wall panels and corner bass treatment - nothing really expensive i found nice prices and was well worth it - 

all i can say is - i dont see any issues so far - its only been a few weeks but very impressed - its simple - nothing much to it - video it just passes it - just like the marantz - actually i like the EMO Q better than the Audessy - i put it one spot and run it - thats it - i hear two channel CDs so clear and the voices are right there in front of you - i had to double check that my center channel was NOT on - i could swear it on working - i do miss a few things from the marantz - which is the bigger front screen - i could see it better than the EMO - it dosnt shut off the screen like the marantz did in direct - but really if thats all i can find not to like about the EMO - thats great - its so much queiter overall - the marantz alone wasnt bad for that either - i did have the GX5 in the mix so that could be a bit more floor noise that this amp - either way i am not disappointed at all so far - it came with the latest update installed - my 82's just sound different - in a better way - i am going to connect my APEX Exciter in the mix tomorrow - i will leave the EMO on direct - Flat and make my adjustments on the exciter - cant wait to use it - 
brings out those details and very clear - i had it in my previous setup - works great - i watched a few moves in direct mode on the EMO - HD audio from bluray - much much better to me - best part was the dialogue and low level details i get from the EMO Combo - its clear - i can hear them speaking even with the volume on low levels - for music its the same way - i can play it low but still hear the full range - full sound - i dont remember that with the marantz - it seemed like i had to raise it up to hear it more - the GX 5 is great - cant complain - its does sound different - the XPA has balls when low and when its needed - its there - i been listening to alot of classical and jazz - saxophone etc, lately - i cant see anyone not liking it - this is my first EMO stuff - and i cant compare it to anything else but my 7002 and GX 5 - there may be better out there - thats for sure - but i think this is the best i had so far and will stay for a good long time - price wise - you cant beat it - but price is not important really - because if it costs less but sounds bad - not worth it - thats not the case - i just got in some Blue Jean Cables - doing it tomorrow - and running my Exciter balanced outs to my XPA - and just enjoy it now 

also if you use amazon and have credits on your credit card - like points etc, - i was able to use them to cut the price of the UMC to only $325 - what can you get for that today - i am more than happy - now long run - i cant say if it holds up or not - i really hope so - i dont need the XMC thats coming out - and price is too much i think - i only need the UMC - i can make use of the balanced connections on the two fronts - which is mostly what i use for music - good cabling - nothing else to do - i had the itch at the same time and didnt want to wait for what ever else may or may not come out later - didnt want to use out now - 

since the XPA is 70 pounds - the marantz about 35 - i was worried about leaving both items in my rack with the marantz on top outside - but would have been nice to see how that would have worked - but for the price i got the UMC with Amazon - couldnt pass that up - and a friend gets to enjoy my marantz also - so everyone wins -


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

When you say you have the UMC in Direct mode, you are not using its Dolby TrueHD processor? So the Oppo is doing the video and audio processing? Sorry I may be confused, for watching movies how do you have the system setup?


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## expresso (Oct 12, 2008)

i wasnt sure how the EMO handles direct mode and i called them to ask also - and from what i understand - when the EMO is in Direct mode - it will process what ever audio it receives from the disk - either Bluray or CD etc, - so when i put in a bluray in direct mode - it used the HD audio - or DTS Master which the bluray had - if its a Reg. DVD - it would use what ever it has - like Dolby Digital etc, - the UMC would be Flat in direct mode - there would be no EMO Q in the mix - it sounded amazing to me - you would still get LFE signals etc, if the DVD has it in the audio it sends to the UMC - then you will get it - if you dont get it - it means the DVD etc, your using just dosnt have those signals and is not giving it to the UMC to use - there is a feature in the UMC which is called - Enhanced Bass - i guess that would spread out what ever low signals to the sub and fronts - i dont use that - its not the right way really - but if you like how it sounds - thats your choice - 

using direct mode only by passes the EMO Q settings - thats it - your system would be Flat across the board when using it in direct mode - but you will still get the HD Audio or DTS Masters audio if the Blu ray has it etc, - if you dont see it - you can use your oppo remote and scan what audio the disk has - the case most likely would be it dosnt have it so your not getting it - but if it does have it - you will get it - 

i wanted to know from EMO if there was a way to get the audio from the disk and still use EMO Q - the answer was yes - but to be honest - i didnt quite get it when he was explaining it so i just let it go - wasnt a concern of mines since it sounds great - but if its a concern or just to know - you can call them and ask how to do that - its in the settings menu - you would not pick direct mode - and then you would be using EMO Q then - 

if i listen to music - and pick stereo mode - then the EMO Q is active - if i pick Direct - then its not active and system is Flat - once i get the exciter in the mix - i will leave it Flat and just make the minor adjustments on the exciter end - easy , simple and you have full control of your sound - 

the exciter is great - i cant believe others are not using it for two channel - and you take advantage of a balanced connection that way also - since the UMC is all unbalanced - but the Exciter can accept either kind of single - 

from the UMC to the exciter will be unbalanced - RCA to 1/4 inch i will use - keep it simple - but coming out of the exciter - will be using my new BLC Balanced Belden 1800F cable down to the XPA balanced inputs - flip the switch on the XPA to balanced and thats it - those two channels will have a fully balanced signal - which are the two channels used most for music - - i dont need a fully balanced output pre amp - i mean if the UMC has it - great i would use it for all 5 channels - my main thing is for music - 

i did get all the rest of the cables from BJC also - unbalanced lines and for my CD players - the OPPO is HDMI only - and for the record - i have both CD Players connected both ways - analog and digital - using the EMO digital cables - I HEAR NO Difference what so ever by using one of the other - 

the only way to have a true analog system - is a TUBE AMP with a TURNTABLE - thats it - theres no DACS to convert anything - other than that - its not a true analog - then i think you will hear a different sound if its a pure analog the whole chain 

think about it a moment - no matter how analog you have it connected - the CD or Bluray disk - is DIGITAL FORMAT - so the source itself is digital - some units can be warmer overall in sound for other reasons etc, - like the marantz - its a bit warmer sounding - and for my taste i found myself looking to adjust to get the mids and highs more out there - its personal taste - i dont like it overly bright - but i want to hear it clear and detailed also - i find my taste leans a little brighter and most others i talk with agree also they tend to like it a bit less warmer - 

i think alot of people read about warmer sounding - etc etc, and think it has to be warm to be HI FI etc, - but in reality those same people may not like it in real life and find them selves trying to fix the duller sound if its too warm - dont get me wrong - the marantz was nice - but if i had to get a AVR again - i was going with the Yamaha higher end AVR if i went that way - the yamaha CD player i got sounds different also compared to my marantz CD player - love them both -


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## RTS100x5 (Sep 12, 2009)

expresso said:


> i did get all the rest of the cables from BJC also - unbalanced lines and for my CD players - the OPPO is HDMI only - and for the record - i have both CD Players connected both ways - analog and digital - using the EMO digital cables - I HEAR NO Difference what so ever by using one of the other -
> 
> -


Have you tried the 7.1 analog outs of the OPPO ??.... Ive been using these in my 5.2 setup and I much prefer the SQ to HDMI :bigsmile:


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## expresso (Oct 12, 2008)

you know i never tried that - i cant say if that would make a difference or not - maybe i will give it a try - i am trying to keep my wiring to a minimum behind my rack - and since i use the Oppo for blu ray 95% of the time - it didnt concern me much - but its interesting to try - now this means i need 7 more cables when i want to do it - i will try to figure out the best length and give it a shot later on - 

from the processor end - going to both my CD players - i find no difference that i can hear going from either Analog or digital - - going from Direct to Stereo makes a difference - and since Direct by passes the EMO Q or what ever processor you have - maybe thats what the difference may also - since going analog out from the oppo - would be like having it in Direct mode - 

also my Oppo is not the higher end model - BD 80 - and works great and i have no problems with it - but it is years old - if i had to take a guess - i would say the New Emo processor i just got would have better overall DACs than the years old BD 80 would have - 

i dont know for sure how good there analog section is - i always read about there higher end version like the 103 and 105 etc, - having a really great two channel section - but thats the case in my model - 

either way - dosnt hurt to try - just more cables  now if i did that - what setting would i have to choose to use the analog outs from the Oppo instead of the HDMI ? and in this case - when watching a blu ray - can i send the audio analog and just the video to the HDMI ? if so - would i lose out on the HD audio from the blu ray if i did use the analog out for audio with movies ? 


thanks - always good to learn and try something new - never know what may come of it -


and about the Cables BJC i had to return - the reason for the return was that they did not stay in place when plugged in the Processor end - for some reason i cant explain it - they just slide right off with out any pressure - but they fit good on the other end of my unit - Amp and Cd player - they stayed in place - just the Emo UMC 200 - those RCA just didnt work for me - i would have never though that -


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## surveyor (Jan 23, 2014)

I own an Outlaw Model 770 amp. I think that ATI, Outlaw Audio and Emotiva amps are very good indeed!


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

I'm not really sure how an amplifier affects sound, when it only provides constant wattage to drive the speaker. I think your source and pre-amp will affect the sound.

I've had Carver amps, QSC amp, and now I use Outlaw amps, and I never noticed any sound difference. However, prior to not having any amps, I was pretty much clip my speakers if I went too loud. Now, with the amps in place, I can go as loud as I want.

If you have an AVR your WPC will change depending on how many speakers you are using. Unless each channel is discrete.

I've got 2 Outlaw M2200 and 1 Outlaw M200 monoblock amps driving my front three. Tomorrow, I am getting 2 Outlaw M200 monoblock amps to power my surround back.

In all honesty, I don't need the power, but my philosophy is: "It's better to have the power and not need it, than to need the power and not having it."

With all that said, I think all the amps discussed in this thread are excellent amps. You cannot go wrong with any of them. By the way, NHT A1 amps are pretty much the same as the Outlaw M200 / M2200 monoblock amps. I just learn this 2 days ago,


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## surveyor (Jan 23, 2014)

GusGus748s said:


> I'm not really sure how an amplifier affects sound, when it only provides constant wattage to drive the speaker. I think your source and pre-amp will affect the sound.
> 
> I've had Carver amps, QSC amp, and now I use Outlaw amps, and I never noticed any sound difference. However, prior to not having any amps, I was pretty much clip my speakers if I went too loud. Now, with the amps in place, I can go as loud as I want.
> 
> ...


 Congratulations, that looks like an excellent choice to me!


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

I just bought two new Outlaws M200 for $150.


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## surveyor (Jan 23, 2014)

That's a steal! You got two new Outlaw M200 amps fro $150-.


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## GusGus748s (Jul 22, 2013)

surveyor said:


> That's a steal! You got two new Outlaw M200 amps fro $150-.


Yes. The guy bought 9 of them a while back, and he never used two of them. He wasn't thinking about selling them either. I just got lucky. He posted some speakers on craiglist, and I just happened to noticed the amps he was using. I asked if he would be interested in selling them. He said he had two in storage, and told me $75 each. :T

He said he might sell a few more. So, I'm first in the list.


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