# Comparing Bookshelf Speakers!



## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for your assistance.

Replacing home theatre speakers. Due to entertainment wall unit going in, will not be able to use towers.

I have been looking at and have gotten previous recommendations on the following choices:

1. Yamaha NS-333
2. Infinity Primus P162
3. Klipsch XB-10
4. SVS S-series
5. and are there any good options compared to any of the above I can get at Best Buy. Convenience, no-interest card is only reason why.

Sitting 12-13 feet from TV screen.
Surrounds must be directly above on wall or on floor next to where I sit. Sofa is about against wall on other side of room. 

Thanks


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## Guest (Jul 9, 2010)

Those Klipsch are over priced for only going down to 90hz. From what you posted, I'd chose either the SVS or Yamaha, but I don't know which one is better. I'm personally don't like the sensitivity of either of them, but if you are sitting close and don't have a big room to fill, then it shouldn't be a deal breaker.

I'd look at these for high efficient horn loaded speakers. http://www.amazon.com/America-FH-65...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278647498&sr=8-17

These are also getting great budget reviews as well. http://www.amazon.com/Truth-B2030P-...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1278647736&sr=8-11


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

To me it would be between the Infinity Primus 162 and the Behringer 2031P. The 162s will need better damping inside the box, but their measurements look good and will handle dynamics. The Behringers have a better response overall and deeper bass but won't get quite as loud (hasn't been a problem for me). The Behringers are a little cheaper and much better built. If you have a small amp or need more output, Infinity. Better SQ, Behringer 2031P. The 2030Ps are a bit cheaper but won't play as deep and I can't guarantee that their response is as good as the 2031. It may also be better.... Not much price difference between the three really.

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/infinity_primus_p162/

B2031P:
















avg of polar graph:









Dan


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

With a budget of around $200/pair the Infinity Primus P162s are worth a listen. New PSB Image B15s are $229/pair delivered at Saturday Audio Exchage. PSB Alpha B1 and PSB Image B15 B-stock are $219/pair and $229/pair, respectively at DMC Electronics.

If you need to buy from Best Buy, the Definitive Technologies ProMonitor 1000 is $220 and quite a good performer.


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks.
Well, I have a older Polk Csi3 center. I get the impression I should replace it at this point, if I am getting new fronts. 

So, I want to save maybe $300-400 for a good center (recommendations)
as well as
willing to go up to $300-400/pair for fronts. 

I was also looking at:
Polk Tsi200
Klipsch Rb51
JBL ES20 and not sure what the JBL L830's cost

Any feelings on these price ranges. Would you recommend continuing to use the Polk csi3 center?

Thanks

Also, considering the Best buy choices, and going up in price to $400/pair for fronts and $300-400 for center, any new feelings on best buy choices vs. above.

Oh...will likely be driving them with a Onkyo 807.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

You'd have a hard time beating the ones mentioned above in that rice range even. They perform that well.
For center channel I'd try to just buy a third one of whatever mains you go with. If height requirements make that impossible, I'd leave the center channel out all together. Of course having a center channel should be better, but if it requires a major reworking of the room it may not be worth it.

Just my opinion,

Dan


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for the advice.
I guess, I don't want to get stuck with not improving my overall listening performance because I am no longer using the R50 tower and Csi3 center. 

I am assuming these newer bookshelves like the Primus P162, or the Behringer 2030P or 2031P would likely sound better than R50's anyway?

Also, got a little confused. If I am powering with a Onkyo 807, there is no reason to get an "active" behringer speaker vs. the passive?

Also, for the price, If the behringer is really quite good, it is hard to justify the $550 for the JBL L830's. If I can, would it really be that much better to pick up these JBL's?

Last question: Any comment on how any of these compareto the Definitive tech ProMonitor1000's at Bestbuy?

Thanks again

Oh, forgot to ask in this post. I am assuming using those R50's as my surrounds is okay?
Can I do anything with the Polk Csi3? 

Sorry for all the questions.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

alewisdvm said:


> Thanks for the advice.
> I guess, I don't want to get stuck with not improving my overall listening performance because I am no longer using the R50 tower and Csi3 center.


Understood. This is where things get dicy.



alewisdvm said:


> I am assuming these newer bookshelves like the Primus P162, or the Behringer 2030P or 2031P would likely sound better than R50's anyway?


Possibly but it's hard to tell d/t the lack of measurements on the R50. The measurements on the 2031P look very hard to beat for sound quality regardless of price. They may well poop out on you at a level your towers would still be going strong. They haven't on me, but I don't get too crazy on volume. The Primus should be able to hang in the dB department fairly well and the measurements would say that you could get better sound quality with addition damping material. They should sound pretty good regardless, but how they compare to your current speakers is a crapshoot unless you know where we could find measurements on them. I looked but couldn't find anything. 




alewisdvm said:


> Also, got a little confused. If I am powering with a Onkyo 807, there is no reason to get an "active" behringer speaker vs. the passive?


I'd go passive just for the price. I'd think that Onkyo would have no trouble powering them.




alewisdvm said:


> Also, for the price, If the behringer is really quite good, it is hard to justify the $550 for the JBL L830's. If I can, would it really be that much better to pick up these JBL's?


I looked for measurements on the JBL, but couldn't find them. So it's impossible to tell. The Behringer is accurate. Accurate may or may not be to your linking, but blind listeners in repeated tests prefer it. The L890 is similar and has a smiley faced curves--boosted bass and treble with smooth off axis curves. Impressive in the showroom. The 830 looks like it has the same mid/tweeter so should perform similarly well, but not as accurate as the Behringers. The stuffed Primus bookshelf should be more accurate as well but won't put out as much bass.



alewisdvm said:


> Last question: Any comment on how any of these compareto the Definitive tech ProMonitor1000's at Bestbuy?


Can't find anything useful on those either. The $4000 DTs don't measure as well as any of the mentioned after the last quote--JBLs, Infinities, or Behringers.



alewisdvm said:


> Thanks again


Your welcome. It was fun doing a little research on affordable speakers.



alewisdvm said:


> Oh, forgot to ask in this post. I am assuming using those R50's as my surrounds is okay?
> Can I do anything with the Polk Csi3?


Hey! I thought the previous question was the last one.:foottap: Good questions.:dontknow:




alewisdvm said:


> Sorry for all the questions.


No problem, but I want to know what you end up doing.

Dan:bigsmile:


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for the comments.

Okay. I was a little confused on the 2030p recommendation vs. the 2031p.

I currently have a 100W JBL PS120 subwoofer. Not sure if that will be enough to complement 2030p.

I really like having the low end, but I also like having that almost sharp high sound as well.
The price is crazy compared to the JBL. No was to justify the L830's, so leaning towards the Behringer's. 
Still need to choose a center.

I guess the only other speakers left I heard of to compare were the CBM-170's? Probably 2x cost of behringer's.

Also, any difference if inside a wood cabinet, or simply sitting on a wood shelf with no front?

I probably plan to pack a shelf full of that insulation padding anyway to surround whatever fronts I get, but was curious if a open shelf vs. closed cabinet mattered.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

The 2031P measure better than the CBM-170. FWIW. The CBM-170 have more output in the presence region and will sound sweeter in comparison. It looks better as well. 

Dan


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Hi Dan. I'm inexperienced. More output in the "presence region"? Sweeter? Is that more high's?


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

presence region is in the 2-4 or 5 kHz region. The off axis response remains high on that speaker in this band and then beams on either side of it. It's pretty common in 2-way w/ dome tweeter type of mini monitor speakers. If you have a local HiFi shop, there will be plenty of speakers with a response like that there if you want to hear what I mean by sweet. It's hard to describe. The smaller the woofer, the less pronounced the effect.


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Hi Dan, 
I would also really like to get your opinion on the absence of a proper center channel to go with the 2031p's?


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

I actually don't use a center with my 2031Ps. That said it should technically be better to have it. The only reason I don't have one is that I only have stereo output. , I'm still using a 25"TV with a picture tube. I'm a music mostly kind of guy. HT is secondary.

Why am I so excited for you to get this put together? Maybe it's b/c you are the first guy I know of who's looking for maximum performance on a minimum budget and theirs actually a selection of reasonable choices.

Oh, I thought about how to describe the sweet sound from increased output in the presence region. Non fatiguing. Audiophiles love this character b/c they can listen to every recording w/o it sounding harsh. Even chainsaws will sound soft--ok, that's an exaggeration.

Dan


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

The Behringers are the speakers I'd have if I didn't make my own speakers. 

You can lay one on it's side if necessary for the center. It would be equal to a normal center in issues. You can never go wrong with Infinity though. They make some of the best drivers in the world. Plus they always have excellent performance in untreated rooms because that is how they designed them. The 350 center is fantastic too. 

I don't think you can really go wrong here because you've narrowed down to win-win choices.


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Hello, 
I may have to go with the CBM's. I really want a regular matching center. It was just so overemphasized on in the forum groups.

Really getting into this stuff. Very interesting. Yes, really trying to do the best I can with the budget I have planned.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

A so called "regular matching center" is really a compromise, the main purpose of the design is to resolve placement issues. Horizontal center speakers generally suffer from lobing and off-axis combing filtering effects, narrow horizontal dispersion, poor off-axis response, etc. etc. You're really better off with three identical LCR speakers than you are with a horizontal center. I believe the other forum groups were emphasizing the importance of using a center speaker, not necessarily the matching horizontal center.


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

I think someone mentioned the 2031P were 4ohm. Will this be okay with the Onkyo 807. Also, if I have to buy the speakers in pairs (don't know), what could I do with the 4th 2031P?


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## Guest (Jul 10, 2010)

http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-B20...8&s=musical-instruments&qid=1278794078&sr=8-3

onkyousa.com should have the owners manual in pdf to check Ω compatibility.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

It says it has certified 4 ohm performance and rates the peak power at 250 watts 4 ohm. However it says continuously rated for 6 ohm. I'm not good with HT speak, so hopefully others will help.

You can buy the 2031p as a single. Generally it's not much cheaper that buying a pair, but I have seen them under $100. When I build my HT, I'll have 5 of them. For build quality and sound quality, they are just impossible to beat at this price point from what I've seen/heard/measured.

Dan


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Power Output - 
Front L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 
Center 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz, 0.08%,
2 channels driven, FTC) 
Surround L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 
Surround Back L/R 135 W + 135 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz–20 kHz,
0.08%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 
Dynamic Power 300 W (3 ohms, 1 ch)
250 W (4 ohms, 1 ch)
150 W (8 ohms, 1 ch) 
Speaker Impedance 4 ohms–16 ohms or 6 ohms–16 ohms 

Based on this information, it looks to me, I may be better off with getting all 2030p speakers. I think I may be running 2 subwoofers anyway?

Any advice from others regarding teh 4ohm 2031p speakers with an Onkyo 807? Thanks


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

I'd feel safer with the 2030p if I were you FWIW. That receiver has a high pass filter to keep bass out right?

Dan


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Dan, 
Honestly, I have no idea.


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## lsiberian (Mar 24, 2009)

The 807 can handle a 4 ohm load just fine. It's not like there is some hard cutoff for 8ohm rated receivers either. Most can handle them within a reasonable range. Don't run it in 4 ohm mode though. It creates more issues than it solves. 

I suggest you get the best single sub you can for starting. Later you can always add a second one if you feel it necessary. The weakest sub in a group dictates the group performance because it must balance the response of the stronger sub.


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks for reply. I saw your recommendation on that BIC sub. Wow. I'll take a peak at the SVS (but probably can't afford), and i'll look at Hsu.

I sent you a separate question in that other post.

I think with a solid subwoofer like that BIC, I can't possibly imagine any reason to even bother with the 2031p's.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Have you pulled the trigger yet?


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## alewisdvm (Jul 8, 2010)

LOL. Hello Dan.
Not yet.
I am leaning towards.
1. The wall unit will fit into a 2' deep and 9.5' wide alcove in living room. 
Instead of paying to wall mount led tv, I think I am going to have the wall unit have a built-in bezel and shelving unit beneath. That way, I am simply putting a 55" samsung or LG on a stand. It didn't make much sense to wall mount it, if the tv will be just above a cabinet anyway holding the a/v equipment.

2. Subwoofer. Still unsure. Comparing BIC Kevlar VK-12 and Acoustech Platinum PL-200 and
someone else mentioned ecoustics?

3. Speakers. It is narrowed down to Behringer 2030p's, and i'll keep the center speaker vertical, or I do really like the SVS SCS-02(M) with the matching center and the SSS-O2 bi-pole speakers. Will mount SSS-02 on wall, and run just the cord in the wall.

4. Receiver: Likely still sticking with Onkyo 807 for price.

5. TV. Tough. I may have to go with the LG because it has the matte finish. The samsung may give off a ton of reflections from my kitchen and living room lights, plus the blinds and huge windows are right behind sofa.


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## DanTheMan (Oct 12, 2009)

Hey! That's my line.:foottap:

Dan


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