# Moving Up! (Upgrade Advice)



## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Hey guys! Love the forum! Looking to get some advice. I want to upgrade something in my system however I'm not sure where I would see the biggest difference if I were to upgrade something.

I'd like to give you guys a budget so you can make better recommendation but I'm not really sure what my budget is yet seeing as i'm a college student.

I'm in a hurry so I won't say much more but i'll update the post later if any of you need more information! 

TV: 51 inch Samsung Plasma
AV Receiver: Denon E300
Front: BIC America DV62
Center: BIC America DV52C
Surround: Bic America DV32
Sub: Dayton 1200

Any and all input is welcome! Thanks much!
DanOpi


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The biggest audio improvement would be to replace your speakers and sub. Without a budget, and a goal it is hard to say which route to go.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Agreed, speakers and sub first then receiver. Budget would be very helpful.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

+2


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

I'm hoping to sell the components i'm replacing and if I'm able to do that I'm looking at the $200-300 range. Whether it be the sub or front speakers or whatever else, i'm fine doing it piece by piece every few months. 

The one suggestion I've heard so far is get 3 Wavecrest HVL 1's to replace my fronts and center which would run me $295. Thoughts?

Any other ideas?

Thanks for the quick responses guys!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok, that helps a lot, Im not really sure what upgrade your thinking you can get with a small budget like this but with $300 I would get a couple of these Chane A3rc-c speakers. Hard to beat for the price and a big step up from what you have.
http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chane-loudspeakers/A3rx-c

When budget alows I would look at getting this SVS PB1000
http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/ported-box/pb-1000


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

I know it's a low budget but that's why I want to upgrade piece by piece. I'm a college student and don't have a ton of free cash to spend just because I want to upgrade. That's the thing, I'm not necessarily unsatisfied with my system it's just I know I can do a lot better if I slowly build it up a little bit. I've been in a dorm while at school and in my bedroom at home these past two years and I'm moving into a house this fall so i'll actually have a living room to use this system. 

That being said, would it be better to save up and get a bigger budget and not upgrade piece by piece? What budget would be "acceptable" to make a drastic difference? 

As for the suggestions you gave... I've heard Chane talked about quite a bit on forums and audio sites. And I would love to replace my front left and right with towers so I don't need to find stands for my current ones. What's the difference between towers and bookshelf speakers? Do i still keep a center channel?

And the sub is a good idea too because when I first receiver my Dayton and hooked it up I expected a lot more than what it produced. I get some bass but it's nothing ridiculous that really hits that hard.

So let me know what direction I should take this!
Thanks for the quick responses guys!

edit: I have no problem buying used or refurb either. If anyone around me has anything there not using and would benefit my system I'd love to talk and see what we could work out! I live right outside the Twin Cities.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Generally towers will have better low end and as you say no need for stands. For now keeping the center until you can upgrade that to a matching Chane center would work.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Buying used or DIY can make your budget go even farther. If you are patient you could save up more money, and still upgrade in pieces to get some real nice upgrades... Ultimately it depends on how much you want to spend, and how nice of a setup you want. Personally, I would wait until you move to your new location and just save as much as you can. I would in the meantime try, and get a feel for what kind of sound you would like to have. Go to local HiFi Stores, and listen to what is available, and then read the reviews on the equipment you listened to. Then read reviews to find out what other speakers perform similarly to what you like. At that point I would start looking for used deals or DIY setups. If you look on Ebay make sure you also do an advanced search to see what they are normally selling for as prices fluctuate quite a bit, and you could pay more than you should. :T


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

ellisr63 said:


> Buying used or DIY can make your budget go even farther. If you are patient you could save up more money, and still upgrade in pieces to get some real nice upgrades... Ultimately it depends on how much you want to spend, and how nice of a setup you want. Personally, I would wait until you move to your new location and just save as much as you can. I would in the meantime try, and get a feel for what kind of sound you would like to have. Go to local HiFi Stores, and listen to what is available, and then read the reviews on the equipment you listened to. Then read reviews to find out what other speakers perform similarly to what you like. At that point I would start looking for used deals or DIY setups. If you look on Ebay make sure you also do an advanced search to see what they are normally selling for as prices fluctuate quite a bit, and you could pay more than you should. :T


 ^^^ +1


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## Chromejob (Feb 19, 2015)

DanOpi said:


> ...
> That being said, would it be better to save up and get a bigger budget and not upgrade piece by piece? What budget would be "acceptable" to make a drastic difference?


YES. If you can set aside $1000 then you've got breathing room to get awesome mains (L, C, R, or just L, R if you are more music focused) and a modest sub, or good-modest mains and an awesome sub. 

Trying to do bit by bit cheaply will result in a system populated by cheaper components. My way, you get a modest system with some future-proof components that will grow with your budget and aspirations.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/ele/5072970977.html
Actually found it in the classifies on here too! http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...ofers/124826-chase-home-theater-vs18-1-a.html

Overkill? Quality? From what I've read it seems to be alright but again I'm new to this so I'm not 100% sure. MSRP is close to 1100 or the site i found that maybe dated.

Can my receiver power it? (Stupid Question?)

I'm working this summer so i'll have some more cash, I was just curious what people think would make the biggest improvement in my system. If I have to save up some more that's fine. Just want to get an idea! I'd like to have a nice system for when I get my own permanent place which won't be for a few more years which is why i'm fine upgrading piece by piece.

Thanks much!

Edit:
Another one I found: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5066156684.html


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

DanOpi said:


> http://minneapolis.c...5072970977.html
> 
> Overkill? Quality? From what I've read it seems to be alright but again I'm new to this so I'm not 100% sure. MSRP is close to 1100 or the site i found that maybe dated.
> 
> ...


1st link doesn't work. 2nd link is for a powered sub which should work if your receiver has sub outs.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Is this the 1st link? http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/ele/5072970977.html


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Yes. Edited my post above. It's on the classifieds here too.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Another thing about towers is the usually have larger and/or more drivers. Many times they're more sensitive too. This normally provides a more dynamic speaker, and as Tony said, should play lower. If your going piece by piece, I'd save the most I can for the longest I could and get the most for what you've budgeted. The front 3 will contribute the most, and will change the sound the most. I'd set a budget and stick to it, unless you find a bag of money lol. The guys have you going the right way.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

I want to set a budget including what I can get for the components I'm replacing. However I'm not sure what I would be able to get for any of them. Estimates?

Edit: Also noticed that Chase sub is passive so that won't work that well for me. Oops.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I recommend keeping what you have.
Learn how to listen to your gear, and then learn how to listen for enjoyment. 
Learn how to position the speakers and sub for the best possible sound in your room.
Learn to correctly use whatever is available in your AVR to EQ the system.
Learn how/what your AVR's various functions actually do.
Learn how to measure the sound in your room and to treat your room for reflections if necessary.

If you have to buy something now the one thing guaranteed to change the sound is the speakers.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

DanOpi said:


> I want to set a budget including what I can get for the components I'm replacing. However I'm not sure what I would be able to get for any of them. Estimates?
> 
> Edit: Also noticed that Chase sub is passive so that won't work that well for me. Oops.


Find what you want, and then save up for that piece...then sell the piece it replaced, and save up for the next upgrade. Look on what they have sold for on ebay under the advanced search, and you will see how much they are worth (make sure you select sold, and not completed).


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

My first choice would be to get towers for my front speakers. What would be a nice pair to look/save for that would last me a couple years?

Also was told to try a 2 to 1 cable instead of a 1 to 1 on my Dayton Sub and I immediately noticed a difference. Just thought I'd mention this.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

DanOpi said:


> My first choice would be to get towers for my front speakers. What would be a nice pair to look/save for that would last me a couple years?
> 
> Also was told to try a 2 to 1 cable instead of a 1 to 1 on my Dayton Sub and I immediately noticed a difference. Just thought I'd mention this.


i would go and start listening to different setups... to get a taste of what you like before you buy. Speaker tastes are vary broad, and what i might like you might not like at all. You need to get some listening experience to figure out what directions you want to go. As an example I used to have Electrostats, and I loved them, but now I am back to horns again but in a DIY setup. Electrostats soound very different than a horn does, and also very different than a cone speaker. Some speakers have silky highs, and some have wide, and deep soundstages... while others don't. You also will have to look at room placement that you can do to make them sound their best. Electrostats want to be out in the room (in my experience 3-6' from any wall) where as a horns speaker can be close to the rear wall. This is only 2 examples of many many options out there.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Where can I go to listen to these set ups?


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Where are you at ?


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Richfield, MN. Right outside the Twin Cities.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

DanOpi said:


> Where can I go to listen to these set ups?


Though it doesn't provide immediate gratification, one possibility is it to attend a trade show or audio expo. Until then, Choice Audio in Minneapolis–Saint Paul can give you an idea of the equipment available and what it's capable of. But like Charlie says below, if you don't know what YOU have or what it can do then you're swimming in circles.



chashint said:


> I recommend keeping what you have.
> Learn how to listen to your gear, and then learn how to listen for enjoyment.
> Learn how to position the speakers and sub for the best possible sound in your room.
> Learn to correctly use whatever is available in your AVR to EQ the system.
> ...


^ +2
I could also have quoted many other examples from some very smart people here. I'm learning something myself by reading them over and over again.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Okay so it seems like the consensus is to save up for a bigger budget and learn about my current system and what I want when I upgrade. My next question is, how?



chashint said:


> Learn how to listen to your gear, and then learn how to listen for enjoyment.


How do I learn "how" to listen? And what do you mean learn how to listen for enjoyment? 



chashint said:


> Learn how to position the speakers and sub for the best possible sound in your room.


I'd love to do this however I'm in a pretty small room that's filled with a bunch of stuff seeing I was gone for the past 9 months at school.



chashint said:


> Learn to correctly use whatever is available in your AVR to EQ the system.


Ran the Audyssey EQ set up again last night after fiddling some with my sub. Seems to have helped some. One question however, what should the phase be set to on my sub, 0 or 180? And crossover?



chashint said:


> Learn how/what your AVR's various functions actually do.


Again not quite sure what you mean by this. What functions exactly?



chashint said:


> Learn how to measure the sound in your room and to treat your room for reflections if necessary.


Same thing as above. I'm in a pretty small room (~10 ft x 10ft) and have no clue how I would treat my room for reflections or even know if it's necessary.

I have the money to increase my budget but I don't want to make a rushed decision if i'm going to spend somewhere from $500 to $1000. 

Thanks for the help!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Personally I agree with saving up to get better however I also think that some of the above posts have steered you in the wrong direction. Given your a collage student on a limited budget there are more important things to consider than getting higher end speakers. The Chane speakers I linked t above would satisfy you for years to come and would be unbeatable for the price. 
Sometimes we get caught up in spending someones money but forget that it does not grow on trees.


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## 480dad (Jan 22, 2015)

tonyvdb said:


> The Chane speakers I linked t above would satisfy you for years to come and would be unbeatable for the price.


+1. 100% agree. i sneak upstairs to listen to my sons alot. run of the mill receiver and entry level turntable, the Chane's are truly a great value.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Ahhh I'm being told so many different things! Now I have no clue what I'm doing haha. Is there a place I could listen to the Chane Speakers? I've been trying to find them in store somewhere around here but can't seem to locate them.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

I have no experience with the Chane speakers but reviews are positive. The A5's won a speaker shootout conducted by HTS by a panel of very experienced and knowledgeable gentlemen. Like life this hobby is a progression and chances are your decision won't be the end of the road for your setup/gear. Most likely the older you get your income will continue to rise and therefore afford you the opportunity to purchase better gear. I think you'll find the enjoyment received upgrading along the way is part of the fun of this hobby. Don't overthink it. I would purchase the Chane speakers Tony linked and begin your journey with those.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Can't speak for Charlie but when "listening" I'd say pay attention to how instruments sound. Are the lifelike, and natural. Are they dynamic like real ones.(within reason to the capabilities of your speakers, and listening volume). Things like air around the instruments, or the room they are in. Are voices clear and natural? Or muffled and hard to understand? The easy answer to your phase question is, play a song with a busy bassline, and move the switch. When you get the most bass,(in the LP only, not other places in the room) that's where you should set it. This has to do with sound waves canceling or reenforcing each other when they get to your ears. Harmonics. Lots more, but gotta go. Good luck!
Btw, it's nice to see a younger fella interested in quality.


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## Lumen (May 17, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> Personally I agree with saving up to get better however I also think that some of the above posts have steered you in the wrong direction. Given your a collage student on a limited budget there are more important things to consider than getting higher end speakers. The Chane speakers I linked t above would satisfy you for years to come and would be unbeatable for the price. Sometimes we get caught up in spending someones money but forget that it does not grow on trees.


Throw out what I posted earlier; it wasn't fully developed (and I love spending other people's money - wink)!

Sent from my iPad using HTShack


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Personally I agree with saving up to get better however I also think that some of the above posts have steered you in the wrong direction. Given your a collage student on a limited budget there are more important things to consider than getting higher end speakers. The Chane speakers I linked t above would satisfy you for years to come and would be unbeatable for the price.
> Sometimes we get caught up in spending someones money but forget that it does not grow on trees.


My only problem with this is... the thread starter has no idea what he likes, and is a College Student on limited income. I firmly believe he needs to learn to listen to different setups to decide what he likes (whether it is a friends, other forum members, local Dealer, or Shows it doesn't matter...just needs to explore and learn hopefully without costing him). He might love the Chane speakers, but then again he might like the sound of some other speakers much better for the same money (buying used). When I started out I was buying new equipment throughout the year, and sometimes would go through a complete change during the same year. He doesn't have the finances to do that, and hindsight tells me I should have spent more time listening to other setups instead of constantly trying a different setup to get the magic sound of a well setup system.:T

He needs to be able to know what his setup is lacking in respect to what he wants (a goal) before buying IMO. :T


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

True but none of the stores sell Chane as they are on line only and I still think there is no better speaker out there in that price range than those. Highly unlikely he will find anything used for what he is willing to spend with the quality better than what he has already. $500 doesn't get much even in the used market that wouldn't be trashed or misused. He would not be disappointed with the Chane speakers and would likely be the envy of everyone around him. As was mentioned even the speaker evaluation gave the model above the ones I linked to the top pick so that says a lot.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Good points Ron. I know which things about my system I would like to address, but I have countless, countless hours splitting hairs and evaluating. My biggest hurdle is that my system is in my living room. I would love to upgrade my speakers, but IMO would be quite expensive to make it worthwhile. I feel the OP should spend some real QT with what he's got, so he'll know which way to go? Experience is the only way to know. I might be interested in demoing my system if gets up this way. (Dead center of mn)


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I think for the budget the chanes would be difficult to beat.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> True but none of the stores sell Chane as they are on line only and I still think there is no better speaker out there in that price range than those. Highly unlikely he will find anything used for what he is willing to spend with the quality better than what he has already. $500 doesn't get much even in the used market that wouldn't be trashed or misused. He would not be disappointed with the Chane speakers and would likely be the envy of everyone around him. As was mentioned even the speaker evaluation gave the model above the ones I linked to the top pick so that says a lot.


Tony, IMO it doesn't make a difference if they sell Chane (I have never heard them, but I have nothing but good about them)...he just needs to spend time with his setup, and then listen to other setups to see where his setup is lacking. Until he does this he will have no idea what direction he wants to go. IMO he is just spending money needlessly until he has a goal as to what he likes, and what his current system is lacking in. What if he buys the Chane speakers, and doesn't like them or if they sound no better to him (then he will be a dissatisfied customer of Chane, and have to return them)? Maybe if he spent some time on setting his speakers up optimally he will be happy with them instead of buying new speakers now. If he has a idea of what he wants he can make a much better purchase. :T :T


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

AH mixed signals again! I see where you're coming from with listening to other systems to see what i'm missing or lacking however I have no where to go to listen to system that are comparable to what I'll be able to or want to buy.

I looked at prices of AudioPerfection and everything there is way too high end for me and i'm afraid going there and listening to that stuff will only make me disappointed with what I end up with. Best Buy or Magnolia however is too low end or main stream for what I would figure to be "quality" audio.

And just a point about the Chanes. For the two towers shipped it would be close to $620. Don't know if this changes anything or not but shipping surprised me a little bit.

Again, appreciate the discussion and truly trying to help me in the long run!


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

It sounds like you might be best off just holding onto your Bic's for awhile. Forgive me if you've already addressed this but what is it you find lacking with what you currently have? Maybe Charlie was right in suggesting you optimize what you already own and continue to save money towards future upgrades. It really would be beneficial to go out and listen to speakers even if they are out of your current budget.


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## 480dad (Jan 22, 2015)

I just kinda went thru this same deal a few months ago. I started out dissatisfied with my mains, went thru a lot of set up gyrations which made improvements but still wasn't what I was after. Many members tactfully let me know my mains were the problem (hi Charlie). The best/quickest/easiest upgrade that makes an immediate difference is better speakers I was told. 

So I asked, what should I buy? 

Many different opinions, none wrong, but many just different. I live in an area where I literally have zero options for auditioning speakers other than brick and mortar brands. As much as I would have loved to have spent days listening to many different models, didn't have that option. So, did the next best thing, asked for recommendations from experts, read and researched. Then bought. Without listening. Not just one set of speakers HTS members recommended but two if you count the Chane A5s I later bought for my son. Would I have picked other speakers had I listened to a few? Maybe. But I can tell you I'm flat out pleased as punch with both ESLs and Chanes. A lot of these people have great ears, much more discerning than mine. Go with just about any model they recommend and you'll be happy I bet.

So, my 2 cents...go be a college student...don't over analyze this to death. Plenty of years ahead for you to become a critical listener and want more...when you can also afford it.


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## 480dad (Jan 22, 2015)

Btw, if the Chanes you priced are out of your budget, you might look at the Martin Logan LX15s. The model is discontinued but still available at a few places such as Crutchfield. They originally sold at $399/speaker and you can get them for $239/speaker shipped free and backed by ML 5 yr warranty. Would be awesome small room speakers and in a year or two, move them to surrounds/rears, and upgrade your mains to full range or add a sub. They are quality speakers that would diminish the sound quality of very few systems.

Options, options, options...:T


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

Yet another recommendation. All good no doubt but I can see where someone just starting out might become overwhelmed. Go listen to some speakers and then go home and figure out how to maximize what you already have. If all of these recommendations are outside of your budget this might be your best course of action.


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## vidiot33 (Dec 12, 2013)

Yet another tip: consider some room treatments. You could do this in stages. I'd start with corner bass traps, then first reflection panels. No speakers, regardless of price, are going to sound their best in an untreated space. GIK offers free room analysis and can get you started, and there's lots of free information on this forum also.

Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

vidiot33 said:


> Yet another tip: consider some room treatments. You could do this in stages. I'd start with corner bass traps, then first reflection panels. No speakers, regardless of price, are going to sound their best in an untreated space. GIK offers free room analysis and can get you started, and there's lots of free information on this forum also. Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


 A good tip and something I would like to do myself.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

I like 480dad's approach. With what I have now, it seems like any upgrade I make I will notice a difference. I'm young and don't have my own place or even a dedicated home theater room. For this reason and for the fact that there aren't a ton if any places where I could go to listen to systems around me, I feel like saving up for what I want and purchasing it.

What would be perfect is if I could find a used pair of the Chane's so I could get them cheaper and more in my budget and then move my current fronts to the rear. While ~$600 is pretty steep it seems as though it would be worth it and last me quite a while. 

The Martin Logan's look nice however I couldn't find them for $239 anywhere and I was hoping to get towers for my fronts.

Any other towers that are quality or roughly the same as the Chane's in the $200 - $300 range?


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

With the newly introduced Klipsch Reference Premier line there are some great deals to be found on the Reference II line. I sold my RF-82's and 62 center for $800. Outstanding deals can be found. Just a thought…


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

DanOpi said:


> Any other towers that are quality or roughly the same as the Chane's in the $200 - $300 range?


The only other tower speakers I can come up with are these Pioneer towers made by Andrew Jones however I dont think they are any improvement over the BICs you have now.
http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SP-FS52-LR-Designed-standing-Loudspeaker/dp/B008NCD2S4


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5066508825.html

Thoughts on these? Hopefully could knock some money off. Probably not as great as the Chane's huh?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Not sure about the other guys here but those are my mains. Not perfect but I do love them. Absolutely an upgrade in every single way.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Others? I'm hoping I could really talk him down in price and then I could pick them up also and it would save me money. But if people think they aren't near the Chane's and the extra couple hundred dollars is worth it I'll wait and see.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

JBL makes nice speakers, would be an upgrade from the BICs you have now but on that note I still think the Chanes would be better.


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

DanOpi said:


> AH mixed signals again! I see where you're coming from with listening to other systems to see what i'm missing or lacking however I have no where to go to listen to system that are comparable to what I'll be able to or want to buy.
> 
> I looked at prices of AudioPerfection and everything there is way too high end for me and i'm afraid going there and listening to that stuff will only make me disappointed with what I end up with. Best Buy or Magnolia however is too low end or main stream for what I would figure to be "quality" audio.
> 
> ...


I would go to AudioPerfection, and tell them you are trying to learn about the differences in audio equipment. Give what they have a listen even if you can't afford what they have now. The reason I am saying this is it will give you some knowledge as to what you can strive for, and what your system is lacking in. I have listened to $100K speakers before... Do I expect to ever buy some that expensive, no. As a matter of fact I recall going to listen to setups like that and then coming home and appreciating the deal I got on my setup. 

If you keep what you have now, and work on getting to know what is available, and how it sounds...you will be able to purchase down the road better equipment (when you can afford it. Maybe you could start a thread to see if anyone in your area would be willing to give you a demo of their setup. When you demo don't be afraid to ask questions after the listen, and bring music you like too. Don't forget there are Audio Shows from time to time to go to and listen too.:T


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

480dad said:


> I just kinda went thru this same deal a few months ago. I started out dissatisfied with my mains, went thru a lot of set up gyrations which made improvements but still wasn't what I was after. Many members tactfully let me know my mains were the problem (hi Charlie). The best/quickest/easiest upgrade that makes an immediate difference is better speakers I was told.
> 
> So I asked, what should I buy?
> 
> ...


+1 :T



JBrax said:


> Yet another recommendation. All good no doubt but I can see where someone just starting out might become overwhelmed. Go listen to some speakers and then go home and figure out how to maximize what you already have. If all of these recommendations are outside of your budget this might be your best course of action.


+1 :T



vidiot33 said:


> Yet another tip: consider some room treatments. You could do this in stages. I'd start with corner bass traps, then first reflection panels. No speakers, regardless of price, are going to sound their best in an untreated space. GIK offers free room analysis and can get you started, and there's lots of free information on this forum also.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using HTShack


+1 :T



DanOpi said:


> I like 480dad's approach. With what I have now, it seems like any upgrade I make I will notice a difference. I'm young and don't have my own place or even a dedicated home theater room. For this reason and for the fact that there aren't a ton if any places where I could go to listen to systems around me, I feel like saving up for what I want and purchasing it.
> 
> What would be perfect is if I could find a used pair of the Chane's so I could get them cheaper and more in my budget and then move my current fronts to the rear. While ~$600 is pretty steep it seems as though it would be worth it and last me quite a while.
> 
> ...


There are great deals out there on used speakers...you just have to be patient. I picked up a pair of Klipsch La Scalas a couple of years ago for $500, and I see Klipsch Heresys for $400 and under all the time..



DanOpi said:


> http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5066508825.html
> 
> Thoughts on these? Hopefully could knock some money off. Probably not as great as the Chane's huh?


Give them a listen and see what you think...Money talks.Ask the seller if he will negotiate on the price, and then show up with what you have. If you like them, and you can agree on a price you got yourself some new speakers. One advantage to buying used is if you are a smart buyer you can usually get your money out of them when you decide to upgrade them later. :T


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## fschris (Oct 31, 2009)

DanOpi said:


> I know it's a low budget but that's why I want to upgrade piece by piece. I'm a college student and don't have a ton of free cash to spend just because I want to upgrade.
> .


I will give you this advice. Buy a nice set of headphones. Look on Head Fi. Much more bang for your buck. Plus you are a college student and you are probably young and will be moving a lot. Moving a bunch of AVR stuff it will get damaged somehow. A scratch here. A scratch there. Plus you may have unruly guest who bust something up. Save up all your extra money and invest it. When you finally have a secure job and living space then buy some gear. Plus from all your saving you can get some nice stuff. In the meantime study hard and read these forums!

lddude: :whistling::nerd:


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

fschris said:


> I will give you this advice. Buy a nice set of headphones. Look on Head Fi. Much more bang for your buck. Plus you are a college student and you are probably young and will be moving a lot. Moving a bunch of AVR stuff it will get damaged somehow. A scratch here. A scratch there. Plus you may have unruly guest who bust something up. Save up all your extra money and invest it. When you finally have a secure job and living space then buy some gear. Plus from all your saving you can get some nice stuff. In the meantime study hard and read these forums!
> 
> lddude: :whistling::nerd:


+1 :T:T


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

What I've found:

Kilpsch KG4 ($200): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5077774933.html

Klipsch Heresy I ($500): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5086883763.html

Klipsch KLF 10 ($300): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/dak/ele/5025191972.html

JBL Studio Series S312BE ($400): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5066508825.html
($300 for this set but one of them looks damaged: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5066050321.html)

Snell E/III ($290): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5086626355.html

Martin Logan Towers (???): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5082156054.html

JBL S412PII ($500): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/ele/5048944991.html

Definitive Technology BP6B ($500): http://rmn.craigslist.org/ele/5036915653.html

List of Used Speakers 20% off: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/ram/eld/5048396157.html

I went through craigslist for a while and found these. Not sure if any of them are speakers that are up there with the Chanes but I thought I'd look and see. I am getting to hung up or over hyping the Chane's? Let me know what you guys think!

Thanks much!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Well, the Martin Logan towers you linked to would be a huge step up but at a big price increase as well. The other speakers are quite large and bulky, do you really want something that big given your space is not large?


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## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Well, the Martin Logan towers you linked to would be a huge step up but at a big price increase as well. The other speakers are quite large and bulky, do you really want something that big given your space is not large?


I agree, and the other issue is that unless the speakers are setup properly in the room they will never sound as good as they could. Martin Logans sound excellent but you won't be putting them up against the wall and have them sounding great ( the same goes for a lot of other speakers). The Heresy speakers are not that big, but if you shop you should be able to find a set for less.:T


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## etroze86 (Sep 22, 2014)

I second the suggestion for the Pioneer Andrew Jones towers as I couldn't find anything in my local area that sounded better unless I was willing to pay Paridgm prices (about a grand) and I'm not. My next set will be something from DIYsoundgroup that I build myself.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Earlier you poo pooed Best Buy, but I wouldn't dismiss the store just because of its name.
They sell some nice equipment at BB that is certainly high enough up the food chain to warrant an audition.
If nothing else you will have more data points on the wide range of sound signatures speakers have.
They should have some Definitive Technology ProMonitor 800 or 1000 on display (at least they have them in Dallas) among several others that would fit in your space and sound quite nice.

I have never heard the Chane speakers, they may be the cat's meow, but I had a very hard time buying a mail-order subwoofer without an audition so I am not keen to make that leap of faith on speakers. 

People here love the Pioneer speakers, they are just too laid back for me. But that's simply a matter of preference. 

Headphones are a viable alternative for critical listening.
I can recommend Sennheiser HD-600's without reservation. 

Just out of curiosity what's your favorite musical artist?


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> JBL makes nice speakers, would be an upgrade from the BICs you have now but on that note I still think the Chanes would be better.


 respectfully I have to say, I wouldn't trade mine for them.
I also agree with Charlie and going to BB. If nothing else, he'll be exposed to a variety of speakers, and their signatures.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

I'll go to BB and see what I think. As for my favorite artist... To be completely honest I don't have a "favorite". I love almost all types of music and can't even pick out a favorite genre. But I like Country, Acoustic (Singer Songwriter), EDM/Electronic, Rock, and some Rap/Hip Hop.

Found a few new prices/discounts on new speakers that would be shipped to me for free.

Klipsch R-28F at $180 each ($360 for pair)
Klipsch R-26F at $140 each ($280 for pair)
Klipsch R-25C at $100

Polk RTi A9 at $262.48 each ($524.96)
Polk RTi A7 at $174.98 each ($349.96)
Polk RTi A5 at $139.98 each ($279.96)
Polk TSx550T at $174.98 each (349.96)
Polk CSi A6 at $139.98
Polk CSi A4 at $87.48

These are very nice discounts from MSRP however I'm not sure on quality. Thoughts? 

Thanks for all the help!

edit: From what i've read the Klipsch I hae above are pretty much the same speaker as their predecessor, the Icons. The Polk seems to be a quality speaker from what I've read.


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Just found this on craigslist. http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5083473733.html

I've heard good things about Definitive Technology. Thoughts?


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

DanOpi said:


> What I've found:
> JBL Studio Series S312BE ($400): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5066508825.html
> ($300 for this set but one of them looks damaged: http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/ele/5066050321.html)
> 
> JBL S412PII ($500): http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/wsh/ele/5048944991.html


These JBL's are awesome and compare very well with the newest Chane A5rx-c's. For 12yrs the JBL Studio S312II (slightly newer version of the S312) were my main speakers. Recently I have been using the Chane A5rx-c as my mains. Listening side by side, there are differences that are _barely_ noticeable, but couldn't really say one is an upgrade over the other (this is between the JBL S312II and the Chane A5rx-c). 
Between these JBL's and the Chane A3rx-c...
....the quality of sound will be very similar (accurate sound reproduction,, very expansive sound field (very 3D (they don't sound like the audio is coming from 2 boxes in front of you, the audio is all around you)),, the instruments sound like they are in the room with you (accurate placements of instruments),, clear detailed mids & highs that raise the hair on your arms).
....the JBL's will sound more powerful (bass & sub bass will hit you hard (especially the JBL S412PII),, very clean bass sound, not boomy).

The JBL S412PII would be a noticeable improvement over the JBL S312. Get those if you can afford them.
The damaged center pieces on the JBL S312 shouldn't have any effect on sound.
These JBL's are very forgiving of room placement & toe-in, more so than many other speakers.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Good input Glenn. An owner of both! Perfect. 
I would love to try a pair of s412's in my house. I read a review from a guy who bought a pair, and also owned a pair of B&W 805.(iirc). He said they were surprisingly quite similar. Not exactly the same, but especially considering the price, felt they were very close. My S312's, as Glenn mentioned put up a good 3d sound field that's had me double check to see if I wasn't in a surround mode.(in stereo). 
I also like the Def-Techs. Klipsch usually represents good value too. Lots of options out there. Hit BB yet?


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## DanOpi (Jun 22, 2015)

Haven't had time for best buy yet. Found a pair of DefTech BP6B's for $175 along with a ProCenter C2 for $50. The Bipolar speakers scare me though because i'm not sure I have enough room or the right acoustics. but for that price it's hard to pass up.


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