# Best audio card with digital output ??



## MikeSp (Aug 15, 2006)

Previously, I have either used the audio that is onboard the motherboard or used a modest audio card for playing Web files and music through the computer's speaker system.

With a media server that will feed from an audio device of some sort via digital interconnect to my pre-pro that keeps everything in the digital domain until the DACs, I would appreciate recommendations as to the best audio device and I use the term "device" since I already assume from doing some reading that it cannot be a sound card inside the computer due to the digital noise present. 

Recording is not a concern at all -- just the capability to send high bit-rate lossless audio files to my MX150 pre is my goal when I build a media server.

Thoughts/opinions appreciated

Thanks,

MikeSp


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2011)

I'm not really sure what the "best" is. I'd hit up newegg and look at the buyers egg reviews. If its digital, it shouldn't make too much of a difference.

If you want lossless, your going to need HDMI out. Max resolution on digital out seems to be 24bit.

If you want a media PC, it might be worth just getting a DIY kit. Can you build a computer? A friend of mine had something very similar to what I am looking at, and it worked well for 720P out to projector. I'm in need of a new PC, and I want a blu-ray player, so I'm going to get this. Or, I've been sleeping on it for a few days I'll probably hit the order button real soon. 

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.579810

While you can just get a sound card for your current computer, I've priced stuff to upgrade a older computer, and I'm just not sure its really worth it. The new stuff is getting so cheap and its way faster and NEW.

BTW, they have better / more expensive kits. I'm just trying to balance me needs, wants, and budget.


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## nova (Apr 30, 2006)

I don't know what sound card or device is best either. The on-board sound on my last five or so computer builds have been more than adequate. Are you currently hearing noise in the audio output from your computer? 

I'm no electrical engineer or other expert on this stuff but, my understanding is that if you have digital noise you cannot get rid of it as it is due to quantization errors (not that I understand quantization error) and is unavoidable. 
If the noise is a result of poor shielding of analog circuits on your motherboard then I think a quality sound card may help.


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## MikeSp (Aug 15, 2006)

nova said:


> I don't know what sound card or device is best either. The on-board sound on my last five or so computer builds have been more than adequate. Are you currently hearing noise in the audio output from your computer?
> 
> I'm no electrical engineer or other expert on this stuff but, my understanding is that if you have digital noise you cannot get rid of it as it is due to quantization errors (not that I understand quantization error) and is unavoidable.
> If the noise is a result of poor shielding of analog circuits on your motherboard then I think a quality sound card may help.


There is no noticeable digital noise from the onboard audio from my Asus P5Q3 Deluxe going to my mediocre computer speakers -- BUT -- my concern is when I use that board in a dedicated media server and am feeding the digital audio via Toslink or coax to my high end pre-pro that keeps all audio in the digital domain (with room equalization) until it hits the DACs on the way to the amps. I want the very best audio quality possible from lossless audio files such as FLAC files ripped from CDs -- and have concerns about jitter and clock rate accuracy and being able to hear audio from my sound system that is at least as good as the Redbook CD's 

(and hopefully even better, comparable to the sound quality produced by the use a dedicated DAC to clean up the audio from a CD transport -- playing Redbook CD's and SACD's -- on its way to the preamp).

I am after pushing the envelope of audio quality after a major investment in the pre-pro, amplifiers, speakers, etc. and do not know if that is possible from a home brew media computer and am wanting to find out before wasting time and money making a computer as a media server.

Thanks,

MikeSp


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

The MX150 has HDMI, correct? Get a graphics card based on the AMD 5xxx series and use HDMI.


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## Koopa (Aug 19, 2008)

I may be off but, I'd think Toslink would have the capability to provide the best possible audio you will send if your only listening to music in stereo. I believe Toslink will handle stereo lossless flac. 

As stated above if HDMI is possible it will handle multichannel lossless.


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## Infrasonic (Sep 28, 2010)

I don't think there would be an audible difference between using audio over HDMI, Toslink or SPDIF. The newer high end sound cards use a good amount of shielding to protect the digital signal with Creative and Asus being the biggest players in that market.

The Asus offers a combo Coaxial/Toslink port to allow the use of a Toslink cable while the Creative only has SPDIF out.


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## reed.hannebaum (Apr 21, 2006)

You may be against the use of a sound card, but I am extremely pleased with the Creative SB X-Fi Platinum card I have in my system. Most of my music is stored in flac format, and I have a Toslink going to my receiver. There is no discernable noise coming from my speakers, and the sound quality is quite excellent.


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

I've used the M-Audio Sonica for several years and works great.
It's an outboard audio card that connects to the computer USB, then sent out either digitally or analog to the music system.
This is a review of the Sonica Theater:
http://emusician.com/daw/emusic_maudio/

Here is some additional info that I used to get better quality audio out of my computer. It has to do with bypassing the Windows KMixer (Kernel Mixer):
http://www.ayre.com/usb-xp_setup.htm


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## borednerds (Oct 1, 2010)

Where would I find a card that outputs video and audio? Even writing in this. it seems like a ridiculous question, but I can't seem to find a video card that outputs sound as well. Wouldn't it have to be a graphics and sound combined card of some kind?


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## Koopa (Aug 19, 2008)

borednerds said:


> Where would I find a card that outputs video and audio? Even writing in this. it seems like a ridiculous question, but I can't seem to find a video card that outputs sound as well. Wouldn't it have to be a graphics and sound combined card of some kind?


Most any HDMI Video card sends audio over the HDMI. If you need something other than HDMI, you'll need to search or probably have seperate card.


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## borednerds (Oct 1, 2010)

I'm trying to breathe a little life into a older machine with a fried motherboard. The replacement motherboards I've found don't have onboard digital sound output (despite having 7.1 support). I have a geForce 8400 GS card. Looking on NewEgg and around the net (Nvidia's website), everything I read says it supports HD video, but not whether it would output sound or not.


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## Koopa (Aug 19, 2008)

From what I read on it, it does not support anything but 2CH. I guess you have to connect a S/PDIF cable from the mobo to the card to pass the audio.


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## borednerds (Oct 1, 2010)

Where did you find that info? I think I might just get a dedicated sound card anyway, but thanks for your help!


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## Koopa (Aug 19, 2008)

I found a couple of guys talking about it here. It's just a forum so take it for what it's worth but, Nvidia shows that being a first gen "HD" card so it seems likely.


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## borednerds (Oct 1, 2010)

Ah! Ok, Thanks. That helped alot. Definitely want to keep 7.1 (even if it's not lossless).


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Mike,

I hate to throw more info at ya but I think your all missing one of the best sound cards on the market. I did this search several years ago. I did get allot of info from newegg it used to be you could go to the bottom of the page on anything and get all of the tech data. 

I tried Creative..., I still have the card and drivers if anybody wants it cheap. I like the drivers its a great filing system. I never tried Asus and I like Asus I have an Asus Graphics card. M-Audio looks nice it has some nice parts that are comparable to HT Omega.

The card company I finally settled on is HT Omega. There is allot to say about this company but I think the parts list says allot:

C-Media Oxygen HD CMI8788 Audio Processor
TPA6120A2 - Built in 120dB Headphone AMP IC from TI supports up to 600ohm headphone
Jumper switch to select different impedance level of headphone.
High Quality RCA connectors for each analog outputs.
24-bit/192kHz AK4396VF (120dB-part spec.) DAC
24-bit/192kHz AK5385BVF ADC for line input
Integrated up to 192k/24-bit S/PDIF high grade special Optical output (up to 5.1ch output)
Integrated up to 192k/24-bit S/PDIF high grade special Optical receiver
Supports onboard Coaxial or CD Digital input connector (An optional Cable (CA-1) is needed for Coaxial input connection)
Supports onboard 2pin digital output connector (An optional Cable (CA-1) is needed for Coaxial output connection)
Standard 10pin Front Panel Audio supports: connectivity for stereo audio output and a microphone input from PC case

Toshin Kogyo audio capacitor
Panasonic - Metalized Film Capacitor
Sanyo - mass storage Capacitor
Swappable OPAMP socket for Front Channel
Advanced Front Panel Audio support
XT connector: Claro halo XT is a bundled Claro halo with an addition of "XT card". The XT card extends the analog outputs to 7.1 ch. Connect the XT card to this connector.

CLARO halo XT is designed to deliver the best audio quality for headphone users including high impedance headphone owners. This performance is carried out through a built-in high fidelity headphone amplifier IC. Additionally, Claro halo XT can deliver its incredible audio to your existing receiver/amplifier through its high quality RCA connectors up to 7.1ch. Upgrade your PC to a powerful and high quality audio center which can never be matched by on-board or other inferior sound cards!

This card is the top of this companies line up. It has an additional XT Headphone Amp Card that plugs into the main card and PCI slot. I bought the HT Omega Claro+. the plus in addition to having all the best parts also gives me the option to add the Headphone amp card. But with this card plugged into my Receiver (thru the computer) I can just plug a headphone into the receiver.

Anyway, I tried an optical cable for awhile but I could never get settled into the sound. It always felt kinda boxeee. I had a nice pair of analog cables so I soldered a Viablu 3.5mm plug onto the pair and plugged that into the single Front Channel of the HT Omega card. I loved the sound so much it stayed that way for months. Then I got a great deal on a Coax cable. When I plugged that cable into the HT card my life changed. I had no idea my Denon receiver and little mongrel speakers were capable of such sound. I have never heard anything sound better. Now,I get excited every time I think of turning on some music. 
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...9&isNodeId=1&Description=ht+omega++&x=16&y=11

The card does not give you a filing system but it gives you Dolby, EAX for games, Karaoke and you can change your voice when you call friends. You can speed up the sound or slow it, change Key (I think) well when you speed up it stays in key but it seems to me you could change key. This card comes with so many sound features. I left it on default which is mid way on all EQ bars but after awhile I started playing/tweaking the EQ to perferct the sound. One thing I noticed about the EQ when I slide the button on any of the bars it has no effect on any of the other frequencies and does not change the quality of the sound. It simply adjusts the frequencies in the area I am working with. Its amazing. 

Take a look, the link above gives you the full lineup

Greg


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Beware the specs that aren't listed.
HT Omega for some reason does not mention their freq range.
I don't know about the Claro Halo XT yet, but most of the other sound cards (i.e. Claro Plus, Striker 7.1) have a very limited frequency range which I found to be 40hz-15khz.
I was interested in this line-up until that tid-bid showed up.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

Well this is interesting. I just looked thru the book and you are right there is no mention of 20hz to 20khz playback or any other limiting playback though.

I looked thru the HT Omega site and found nothing. However I did look at the EQ for my card which has 10 bars ranging from 30hz to 16khz so I will guess there is more going on below 50hz and above 16khz. But to be sure I emailed the help desk @ HT Omega. 

Are you sure you weren't reading the "Headphone spec" or microphone limits. 
I don't expect to hear that my sound is being limited by one of the best sound cards on the market. Dolby doesn't limit repro in any protocol..., does it? 

Man Ya got me. Thanks for the comment.

I'll get back with something.

Greg


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

Just because they put in an EQ that goes down to 20hz, doesn't mean their card is spec'd as such.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

I just played a little music and didn't take long to hear a low E of the bass guitar I checked my guitar with a harmonic tuner. This low E note was a true 41hz and the kick bass drum was much lower and that played loud and clear. 

I have a friend who plays classical piano. His mother teaches Piano (retired now) but they own a Bosendorfer Piano ..., well he can tell every orchestra who uses a Bosendorfer Grand Imperial Piano I'm sure. This particular piano plays down to 16hz a very low C note. My Cub Sub only plays down to 30hz but this will help me see just where my actual cut off is. 

Greg


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

The only way I found out the freq range was by reading reviewers that did their research. Several reviewers say the same thing as far as they can't believe such a high quality card would do something like that and they wouldn't have believed it except the specs came from HT Omega themselves (the only way anyone found this info was to call HT Omega, they did not divulge it voluntarily).
Also to note...like a speaker's freq range spec, this doesn't mean that it cuts off the freq below 40hz and cuts off the freq above 15khz, it will still play lower and higher, just not within certain parameters. 

Here is one of the many reviews that mention the limited freq range...
http://sound-cards-review.toptenreviews.com/ht-omega-claro-plus-review.html

And Greg, you are right that most of these Claro cards are still rated top notch even with this spec, I would not worry about it. Something helpful might be to get a test CD and SPL meter to check the levels. If the levels do drop noticeably at the high and low end, an eq could always be used to give it a little boost. But more than likely, with this high quality card, it's not missing much.


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## eugovector (Sep 4, 2006)

I'd just run REW with a loopback, the same way you'd calibrate for soundcard response. This will give you an exact frequency response for your card.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

I haven't used REW, I have not even used Audessy yet..., I don't have a mic. I have found no need there isn't a speaker more than 8' away from my seat. I will treat behind my speakers on the front wall at some point but I have few resonant freq's except one I'd like to change/quiet. 

Let me just add I looked at the review and every point about features not present on the Claro+ card are actually present on my card 

"The only thing really missing from this card, as far as API support goes, are gaming APIs like EAX and OpenAL. The Claro Plus+ does have DirectSound, which emulates EAX to some degree, but obviously gaming isn't the focus. As for music and other non-video-game-related audio, you can't go wrong here. This card supports DTS, DTS NeoC, Dolby Headphone, Dolby Digital and ASIO 2.0. That's a pretty broad list that covers about everything you could ever want in a sound card. No other card we reviewed had more support than this one, which makes it a pro when it comes to compatibility."

The Claro card has "key shift, EAX 2.0 &1.0, Xear 3D and many more features." 
This reviewer might have a problem with bias. I don't know his review does not read well for him.

Greg


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

I know part of the problem and a few reasons HT OMega is misunderstood. HT Omega an honest manufacturer uses a -1.5db low pass filter @ 40hz (to quiet internal noise) but the sound is usable well below 10hz. I do not know where 16khz came from but here is a chart from HT Omega showing a freq profile where the sound begins to drop @ 40hz and the upper @ 16khz using the 20bit/48khz graph but here using the 24bit/192khz the sound goes out to well beyond 50khz. When I get these graphs to load onto my HD I will post them in my gallery so that they will become available to post in future discussions.

Bottom line the HT Omega card does playback sound from below 5hz to above 50khz. This info was in response to my email inquiry to HT Omega. 

I am not surprised at this response from HT Omega and not surprised at this kind of bias in reporting from the internet. This is the wild wild west all over again. 

What speaks loud and clear..., it took only a few hours to get a response from HT Omega. When I broke the digital out RCA on the card I had a new card in 4 days. No Questions about receipt, how old the card is etc etc..., 

I will say though the fact of a 1.5db filter is a symbol of the concern I have and the reason I am looking at buying a DAC. Outboard DAC with seperate power supply. If I can find an outboard heavy aluminum case with a single PCI slot I think I will circumvent that small low pass filter and just continue using the HT Omega sound card.

Greg 




cid:[email protected]


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

Gregr said:


> I am not surprised at this response from HT Omega and not surprised at this kind of bias in reporting from the internet. This is the wild wild west all over again.


Providing complete info about your own product that is easily accessible to everyone would go along way toward taming bias from the wild, wild west. Otherwise it looks like your trying to hide something.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

This is where I usually leave a thread..., when a response accuses me of anything like deceit and lying or ignorance. I realize these statements are not about my character but are about the accuser. But it feels out of control and so..., there is no telling where this will go. 

Greg


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

If you think my last post was about you, Greg, it wasn't.
I was referring to HT Omega not providing all info about their own product.


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## Gregr (Nov 2, 2010)

My apologies..., of course it was. Now that I've reread I see where I went wrong. 
I guess I'm in shock from some recent experience here. 

Your right why they don't make this info public knowledge is different. I don't have this info in my owners manual. It did not take long to get the info though. I've tried to upload with no luck yet. I took photo's and that did not work..., that's not right at all. I have an issue somewhere..., I'll figure this out and get a photo up soon.

Greg


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