# Pimp My Garage



## fitzwaddle

Hi all - thought I'd post some info on the dedicated HT I'm building. If you visit AVS Forums, the title might sound familiar. :clap:

Our house has a 4 car detached garage - has mostly been used as storage (er piles of junk), and for a workshop, and sometimes a car even managed to get in there, but not that often. Since we only have two cars, and after completing our modest remodel, I still didn't have a good space for a dedicated HT, I decided to convert half of the garage into that HT. Have been planning this since before the remodel actually, back in mid/late 2006, but finally swallowed hard and started spending I mean building in earnest a few months ago.

I hired out the basic room construction (new ceiling joists, framing, electrical, insulation, drywall, mud, and even construction of the stage and riser); I'm responsible for paint, screen wall, soffit/rope light tray, columns, acoustic treatments, fabric wall panels, low voltage wiring.

SketchUp model I did some time ago - doesn't reflect a few changes: double door entry, addition of soffit/light tray, rear column location will be in corners:










floorplan (room dimensions: 23' deep to front wall, 21' to false wall/screen; 17' wide; 9' ceilings (except soffit, which drops down 8 inches; seating at 11.5' and 17' approximately):










Here's where is stands at the moment (well almost up to date pics, not quite - finished the basic soffit framing and started screen wall framing) - from the outside (stone circle is a planter box / seating wall, we haven't picked a tree yet):










A few inside pics - before starting the soffit (stage is sand filled, 8" high):










after getting most of the soffit framing done (the soffit in front over the stage will be extended to have a curve matching the stage, and the screen lights will be relocated into that extension):










riser (12", fiberglass filled) - before drywall mudding was done:










entry doors - up over the stone steps on the outside, to the level of the rear riser):










My awesome rack - will upgrade that I think :innocent: - all the gear will be in the closet:










Equipment list / plans:

Pioneer AVX-1120-K - got it
Toshiba HD DVD Player - got it
Blu ray player - TBD, Oppo please? (crossing fingers on the contest) and/or PS3
power conditioner - TBD
XBOX 360 - TBD
speakers - currently B&W DM602 fronts, DM601 side surrounds, CC6 center; will be upgraded, currently thinking of TCA Pro-10s for LCR, Hsu HIW-1s for side / rear surrounds (wired for 7.1)
subwoofer: Velodyne VA-1210 or whatever its called, old - will be upgraded, planning THT LP
projector: Panasonic PT-AE4000U planned
screen: Seymour A/V DIY planned, 136" 2.35:1 or thereabouts
Lighting control: 4 zone Grafik Eye - got it
Seating: row of 4 curved Berklines on riser; row of 3 curved Berklines in front - ordered, waiting until I have carpet in to take delivery.
A/C - split A/C, either LG ArtCool or Mitsubishi Mr. Slim.

Surround speakers will be buried in columns on the side and rear corners.
LCR & subwoofer will be behind acoustically transparent screen on false wall (24" from front wall).
Walls will be fabric covered frames with rigid fiberglass panels (OC 703 or similar) to ear level and below.
Soffit will be stuffed with pink insulation and covered with kraft paper or similar, to add some midbass trapping.
Superchunk midbass traps will be placed in the front corners behind the screen; and in the rear corners within rear surround columns.

That's about all I can think of the moment - let me know if you have any questions, suggestions, etc.

Brad


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## the colors

Looks to be a nice setup in a nice spot. One thing I would invest in and it may slip most minds is a smoke detector in the theatre tied in directly to the house smoke detector system. The reason I say this is a freind of mine had a small electrical fire in a setup similar to yours in the garage and had no idea till you guessed it...... it was to late, small fire ===== lots of damage. When the smokes are all together, one sences smoke they all go off.


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## SurfHB

Very nice theater! It is coming along great! Keep us posted on with updates.


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## salvasol

fitzwaddle said:


> rear column location will be in corners:


Nice room you're going to have there... :T

Any reason why you're moving the columns to the corners instead of the original plan???


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## fitzwaddle

salvasol said:


> Nice room you're going to have there... :T
> 
> Any reason why you're moving the columns to the corners instead of the original plan???


Yes, due to the change to the entry doors - double doors, and offset to one side, so there won't be room (or symmetry) for columns beside the door(s).


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## fitzwaddle

SurfHB said:


> Very nice theater! It is coming along great! Keep us posted on with updates.


Thanks, will do!


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## salvasol

fitzwaddle said:


> Yes, due to the change to the entry doors - double doors, and offset to one side, so there won't be room (or symmetry) for columns beside the door(s).


Got it :T

Any plans for the grand opening??? :whistling: :innocent:


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## fitzwaddle

salvasol said:


> Got it :T
> 
> Any plans for the grand opening??? :whistling: :innocent:


Haha, man, way too many things still to work on to even think about that - and I really only get in about 1 day's worth of work on it a week, most of that standing and staring and wondering "hmm, now how am I going to do this...". Fontana is pretty close though... :T


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## salvasol

fitzwaddle said:


> Fontana is pretty close though... :T


Yeap... if you need a helping hand :T


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## Stele

Nice Brad, very nice.

What do you have planned for the room treatments and placement of the surrounds and subs?

Have you plugged the room dimensions into a mode calculator yet to possible ID potential problems before you start testing/cal?

What kind of wall is it in between the HT and garage? Not that it will matter that much for sound leakage (unless you have someone living in your garage!) just that it will be acoustically different from the opposite wall (which means the calculators will be slightly out).

I bet your already thinking of what the first movie will be!


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## fitzwaddle

Stele said:


> Nice Brad, very nice.
> 
> What do you have planned for the room treatments and placement of the surrounds and subs?


Thanks! Surrounds will be inside columns on the sides and in the rear near the corners. Subwoofer (THT LP planned) will be behind the false wall, either firing toward one of the side corners, or firing up to the ceiling.

Room treatments, here's my tentative plan: linacoustic on the entire front wall; superchunk traps in the front wall corners; superchunk traps buried inside rear corner speaker columns (except for the middle piece where the rear surrounds will be); pink faced fiberglass inside the soffit for more bass trapping; fabric covered 1" fiberglass panels (OC 703 or whatever similar I can find at a good price locally) either up to and slightly above ear level on the side walls and back wall, or just at reflection points, depending on what my measurements (RT60) show once I've got the carpet, furniture, bass traps, soffit traps in.



Stele said:


> Have you plugged the room dimensions into a mode calculator yet to possible ID potential problems before you start testing/cal?


I created a spreadsheet with "good" room ratios from various publications I could find (Everest book I think? it was a while ago), and ended up fairly close to one of the favorable ratios. Just plugged my room dimensions into Bob Gold's calculator, got a few yellows down low, and green otherwise, so I think I'm in not too bad shape.



Stele said:


> What kind of wall is it in between the HT and garage? Not that it will matter that much for sound leakage (unless you have someone living in your garage!) just that it will be acoustically different from the opposite wall (which means the calculators will be slightly out).


The wall was supposed to be a double wall, but the contractor got cute and used 2x8 framing instead of double 2x4, thinking it would be the same thing - I got a little moo, but got over it, and asked him to DD/GG that wall as compensation for his screw up, which he did. The closet door is there though, so not sure that the extra mass/damping will do much of anything (nor would the double wall actually) unless I seriously beef up the door (its a Safe N Sound door). And of course having the door there will also present some challenges vis symmetry and room treatments.



Stele said:


> I bet your already thinking of what the first movie will be!


Not really yet - too much in front of me still! Although after framing in my screen wall yesterday, I sat and looked at it and caught myself mouthing explosion sounds, visualizing some sort of fantasy / epic / whatever film. :laugh:


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## fitzwaddle

A bit of progress the last couple weeks, not as much as I would have liked to have accomplished, but still progress.

Framed screen wall. No screen yet. The opening is the approximate size of the planned screen, but may have to mount it a little higher than that, in order to keep the PJ ceiling mount from hanging down too low, since I want to due the poor man's CIH, which means the lens can be no lower than the top of the screen. Current eye height is at 1/3 of screen height, so moving it up would be a bit of a compromise, grumble.










Added the curved front of the soffit to match the curve of the stage. The whole soffit was a bit of an afterthought, so I had to relocate the screen lights down into the soffit. Getting that thing up onto the ceiling was a bear with no help, but I managed to figure out a way to do it.










Close up of one of the "old" screen light holes that I plugged.










View of the bracing I created to support the front edge of the soffit.










Added two layers of 1x2s for stage lip, will route a curve on the top edge.


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## davey_fl

Looks fantastic! Love the curves and looking forward to following the progress.


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks Davey! I'm looking forward to some progress too, unfortunately, I'm going pretty slow - mix of indecision, research on the fly, not much time during the week, etc.


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## Prof.

Nice job on the construction so far..:T
Looks like it will be a nice size room..I'll be interested to see your progress..


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## tcarcio

Looks great. I have a garage that is basically used for storage/junk also. I wonder what the wife would think about me doing something like that.:foottap: I think if I show her your setup she might go for it. :heehee: I look forward to more pics...:T


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks tc - fortunately, I had the benefit of having a 4 car garage, so converting 1/2 still left me with a 2 car garage - not sure if I would have been able to get a permit otherwise, although that may have been a local ordinance. Hope to see a build thread from you soon! :T


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## bambino

Good looking (future) theater, it looks like the real deal i love the front riser and am looking forward to it takeing shape. Great job!:T


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks bambino!


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## Owen Bartley

Looking like a great plan Brad, and you are off to a very good start too. I just had a thought when I saw you were thinking about changing your speakers... what about building some DIY speakers into the columns? It's probably another complicated project on top of everything else you're doing, but I just thought I'd throw it out there.


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks Owen! I looked into doing some DIY speakers - the 4pi's look very nice - but I'm planning on getting PRO-10s, which to me are a great value, to the point where I don't think I could build something better for less $$. I did build my own sub though, completed a couple weeks ago - in that case, I felt the $ vs. time worked in my favor. I built a THT LP (folded horn), here's a few pictures:

























































Edit: checked your sig links, great looking work! nice job on the router circle jig too! - but the first link (GeoCities) seems to be dead?


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## mcfly

Very nice, the Darth Vader of subs


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## fitzwaddle

mcfly said:


> Very nice, the Darth Vader of subs


Thanks! And fortunately, very efficient, so you don't need 1.21 gigawatts.


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## fitzwaddle

Kind of slow going here - but I *think* I might be done with the drywall dust everywhere phase - at least I hope so, sick of cleaning up and inhaling that stuff. Here's the soffit (again), ready for priming and painting the ceiling / cove, installation of rope light, installation of soffit lights, installing rest of fiberglass insulation, and fabric covering.

Front over the screen - curved:



















rear - the soffit is open on the bottom to hold fiberglass for bass trapping - some in place, some still to buy. I better keep the little halogen lights well away from the fiberglass, due to flammable facing.










Behind the screen wall, with fiberglass in:










I wasn't sure on the front whether to (1) keep all the same level, (2) add a ledge, with a curve matching the curve of the front, or (3) add a more angular ledge, which is what I ended up doing. Will be covered with fabric - and a little trim piece next to that ledge.



















I'm waffling on the color scheme - want to have the soffit contrast with the walls and the ceiling, with either an olive green or mocha color scheme - black ceiling / dark shade soffit / lighter shade walls? Any suggestions?

Also, how well does rope lighting light up a black ceiling? Vs. say an olive green or mocha ceiling (so I could do black soffit, and green/mocha walls, and still have a contrast there).

The sub is great fun - I'm expecting to get my new speakers in this week, which means I better get cracking on setting up a shelf behind the screen to support the LCRs at proper height, and work on columns for the side and rear surrounds.

Anyone happen to know off the top of their head what the distance from floor to eyes is for a 5'10" guy in a Berkline 13175? And the distance from the bottom of cabinet to center of tweeter on a PRO-10 / SHO-10? 

Hopefully Bryan is watching to keep me honest, in case I've missed something entirely in my attempt at bass trapping within the soffit.


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## Radarlock

That's a really nice looking sub!!


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## Radarlock

Nice work with the soffits!!! Don't you think it would be better to take the paper out of the insulation if you are going to use it as a bass trap?


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks Radar - the reason I've left the insulation facing out is to reflect some of the mids/highs, while absorbing bass - so as to not overdeaden the room, when combined with other treatments to be added. It's what I've seen on other bpape directed soffit builds.


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## fitzwaddle

Here's some updates...

New speakers - CHT (Chase Home Theater, formerly Tweak City Audio) - 6x Pro-10, 1x SHO-10 (center) - they were returns (scratches here and there), and Chris gave me a smoking hot deal on them - thanks Chris!























































Did the fan mod on my QSC power amp that drives the THT LP - huge difference, the old fan was a turbo prop:


















































































Painted the trims for the 3" recessed lights that are going in the soffits:










Cut the holes for the lights:



















Pile of debris, and cans ready to go (tomorrow):


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## fitzwaddle

Soffit lights in, and filled the soffit cavities with insulation:




























Testing out the rope light - trying to decide between one and two layers (one looks better I think), and placement (seems like against the inner face of the soffit, raised up about an inch gives a better diffuse effect):


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## raZorTT

Hey Brad,

Great thread so far! you are right it looks like we are in almost identical posistions 

I've subscribed to your thread so I can hopefully keep up!

Cheers,
Simon

P.S. I love the rack :T


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## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Hey Brad,
> 
> Great thread so far! you are right it looks like we are in almost identical posistions
> 
> I've subscribed to your thread so I can hopefully keep up!
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon
> 
> P.S. I love the rack :T


Thanks Simon - I'm subbed to yours as well, and will be following along, there's always room to see something someone else just did and add another change order. :T

For example, I didn't originally plan on having a soffit, but after seeing several other builds, I decided to bite the bullet and add one, just to give a little visual appeal that seemed missing. Shot about two months on it as a result. :scratch:


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## fitzwaddle

Here's a picture of the painted ceiling - also used the same paint to cover the soffit wood and the screen wall framing, so no wood will show through the fabric once covered. The color is Behr "Espresso Beans" - the darkest shade of brown that I could find, looks near black in the picture (and with the lights off, yay).










Rope light with the lights off.




























I had been planning on just building a cheap rack to save some money - but I read someone else's thread mentioning they got a good deal on craigslist, so I checked, and whaddya know, there was one waiting for me - $180 for a 37U Slim 5 with casters, 3 2U shelves, 8 1U vent panels, and 9 horizontal lacing bars. It was part of a huge pile of gear pulled from a mansion in Chatsworth that was being sold by an NFL player who was moving - an estimated $500K I was told, 6 racks total, saw a stack of Anthem amps and a Titan projector among the pile.

The rack is total overkill as far as what I really needed - but hey, sure has plenty of room for expansion. =) My plan is to house both my A/V gear and music gear in the single rack.










Still debating whether to just roll it into the closet, or cut a hole to poke the face into the room. The latter would make for easier access both front and back - back, since the closet is only 27" wide, rack is 19" - 8" isn't even enough to be able to rotate the rack to access the wiring. If I poked the hole, I'll have to figure out how to reroute electrical - the rack would stick through the framing shown here - note the romex running horizontally that I would have to relocate - move it above the rack and add a junction box I guess? Would the junction box need to be accessible?


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## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> For example, I didn't originally plan on having a soffit, but after seeing several other builds, I decided to bite the bullet and add one, just to give a little visual appeal that seemed missing. Shot about two months on it as a result. :scratch:


Good decision  the end result looks fantastic! I would have loved to have done a nice curve like that at the front.

Great work with the painted ceiling! How many coats did you end up giving it?

The rack looks great as well. Did the $180 include shipping? 
I'm partial to being able to access the front and back of the rack so that would be my vote . If you don't want to do that, can you put the rack on one of those bases that then lets you pull it forward and spin it? I think sandman had something like that for his rack?

Cheers,
Simon


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## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Good decision  the end result looks fantastic! I would have loved to have done a nice curve like that at the front.
> 
> Great work with the painted ceiling! How many coats did you end up giving it?


Thanks for the support Simon! :wave: I did one coat of tinted primer, 2 coats of the paint that I ended up not happy with (Valspar), and then one coat of the paint I was happy with (Behr). So one primer, three color coats.



raZorTT said:


> The rack looks great as well. Did the $180 include shipping?


It was local and "cash only", so no shipping, no tax.




raZorTT said:


> I'm partial to being able to access the front and back of the rack so that would be my vote . If you don't want to do that, can you put the rack on one of those bases that then lets you pull it forward and spin it? I think sandman had something like that for his rack?


Yeah something like that - maybe it was a slide out I don't recall. Trouble is the corner to corner dimension of teh rack is 27 1/4", which is exactly the width of the closet - so not practical to be able to rotate it to access the back. And if I put it in a slide, it would need to slide several feet to the doorway to be able to rotate it. The other option would be to create an access door at the back (there is an open closet on the garage side) - but would have to relocate a bunch of stuff, so not attractive.

I think I'm talking myself into the "poke a hole" option. :huh: Just need to figure out what I need to do to satisfy code when extending/rerouting that Romex run that's in the way. Maybe tomorrow I'll just start cutting a hole so there will be no turning back - I've been waffling on this far too long.


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## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Thanks for the support Simon! :wave: I did one coat of tinted primer, 2 coats of the paint that I ended up not happy with (Valspar), and then one coat of the paint I was happy with (Behr). So one primer, three color coats.
> 
> 
> 
> It was local and "cash only", so no shipping, no tax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah something like that - maybe it was a slide out I don't recall. Trouble is the corner to corner dimension of teh rack is 27 1/4", which is exactly the width of the closet - so not practical to be able to rotate it to access the back. And if I put it in a slide, it would need to slide several feet to the doorway to be able to rotate it. The other option would be to create an access door at the back (there is an open closet on the garage side) - but would have to relocate a bunch of stuff, so not attractive.
> 
> I think I'm talking myself into the "poke a hole" option. :huh: Just need to figure out what I need to do to satisfy code when extending/rerouting that Romex run that's in the way. Maybe tomorrow I'll just start cutting a hole so there will be no turning back - I've been waffling on this far too long.


Nice work, the tinted undercoats make a huge difference to the end result :T

Go with you gut :T Hopefully you won't need access to the junction boxes. They'll be inside the wall anyway won't they?

Simon


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## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Hopefully you won't need access to the junction boxes. They'll be inside the wall anyway won't they?


No, I won't need access - just wondering if the building inspector will balk at it - I fear my inspector. :sad:


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## fitzwaddle

I decided to keep the equipment fully enclosed in the closet - the way I got off the wall was by finding a nice deal on an MA Slim5 on craigslist - $180 for 37U rack, with 3 2U shelves, casters, lacing bars, and 1U vented spacers. Shame to waste the nice casters, so I will just roll it into the HT closet. Because the closet is pretty narrow, I'll need to disconnect the rack and roll it out to do anything major or rack wiring - I can live with that - I think.

Also bought a Hot Link XL IR-over-cat5 extender, haven't installed it yet though.

Catching up with some pics:

Mini Coopers, even Clubmans, are not optimal insulation transport vehicles - not an inch to spare in this load:










Inside of the entry doors painted satin black:










Right rear surround column / bass trap - used Roxul AFB, great stuff - cheap and super easy to work with with an electric carving knife. Framing is 2x2s, and 1/2" plywood speaker shelf. I plan on filling the bottom part with more AFB, but need to discuss the outlets buried in there with the building inspector - can I leave them and bury them, or move into the columns, or move outside columns. Same issue with all column locations.










Left surround speaker column:










Right surround column, right rear column:










Right screen wall superchunk:










Screen wall - L/R superchunks, 1" OC 703, Rubbermaid shelving for LCRs (THT will either be upright in the corners, or slide under the LCR shelf on its side:










1.5" OC 703 FRK/FSK in the soffits, covering pink fiberglass filling. Boy sure is shiny, wish me luck not having that show through fabric. May have to paint it or use two layers of cloth, not sure.










Left side of room, showing rear column, side column, and side front (dummy) column.










Right side of the room, showing columns and miscellaneous mess.










Still thinking through color schemes - for the soffit, columns, and wall panels. Going to have an earth tone scheme for sure - the ceiling is very dark brown, the front faces of the columns will be black speaker cloth - so need to decide on soffit, rest of columns, and walls. Some combination of contrasting brown colors, olive greens, or deep wine reds. Any suggestions?? Kinda leaning towards a mid tan for wall panels, black speaker cloth in the middle front of the speakers, maybe deep burgundy accent on the column sides, black on the soffits.


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## engtaz

Looking Great.


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## bmf795

If you have any other pictures or comments regarding your soffit fabrication, I would love to see/hear them. Very envious of your space. I have a 15x20 room and I thought it was plenty big enough. Would love to have your dimensions.


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## Prof.

Nice job..:T It's all coming together nicely..
My suggestion for your wall colour would be a dark olive/grey green..That would go well with the dark brown ceiling..


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## raZorTT

haha love the shot of the clubman  My 300ZX is even more useless at carrying anything bigger than an overnight bag  Lucky my dad has a van that I can borrow whenever I need it :T

The front wall and soffit treatments look fantastic and I really like the shape of your columns :T :T

Were you going to paint the walls? Or were you going to cover with GOM?


Cheers,
Simon


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## fitzwaddle

engtaz said:


> Looking Great.


Thanks. :bigsmile:



bmf795 said:


> If you have any other pictures or comments regarding your soffit fabrication, I would love to see/hear them. Very envious of your space. I have a 15x20 room and I thought it was plenty big enough. Would love to have your dimensions.


I have quite a few pics earlier in the thread as it was going together - let me know if there's something specific that you need clarification / detail on.



Prof. said:


> Nice job..:T It's all coming together nicely..
> My suggestion for your wall colour would be a dark olive/grey green..That would go well with the dark brown ceiling..


Oh come on! That was the color combo I've had in my head since I started planning in 2006, and I just started changing my mind! You're not making this any easier lol. :crying:



raZorTT said:


> haha love the shot of the clubman  My 300ZX is even more useless at carrying anything bigger than an overnight bag  Lucky my dad has a van that I can borrow whenever I need it :T
> 
> The front wall and soffit treatments look fantastic and I really like the shape of your columns :T :T
> 
> Were you going to paint the walls? Or were you going to cover with GOM?
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Thanks Simon! I can't wait to get a column fabric covered so I can see what it will really end up looking like.

I'll be covering the walls (and soffit) with fabric - looking for budget friendly alternatives to GOM though, too rich for my blood. Found some possibilities at Rose Brand which are fire retardant - are they breathable enough though, I'm not sure.


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## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Oh come on! That was the color combo I've had in my head since I started planning in 2006, and I just started changing my mind! You're not making this any easier lol. :crying:


haha isn't it always the way :dumbcrazy:


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## Dale Rasco

Looking fantastic Brad! Can't wait to see the finished product!


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## RVAtheater

fitzwaddle said:


> - and I really only get in about 1 day's worth of work on it a week, most of that standing and staring and wondering "hmm, now how am I going to do this...".


:rofl: Man that is exactly how I feel 90% of the time I'm working on my basement/theater. No one has ever just put it out there like that but thats exactly what I feel like so many times!! 

Thanks for the post! Your theater is going to be really nice. Great job so far.


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## HuskerOmaha

Brad,

questions I missed from looking through here that only I may care about...

Your steps up to your doors (outside)...is that stamped concrete or some sort of stonework?

It must really suck in the winter having to walk through snow to get to your theater...oh wait.

I want to move to Arizona.

EDIT: Is that your 360 handle at the bottom? Mine is pillpusherx..... how does one get that in here on your sig?


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## salvasol

fitzwaddle said:


> ... looking for budget friendly alternatives to GOM though, too rich for my blood. Found some possibilities at Rose Brand which are fire retardant - are they breathable enough though, I'm not sure.


Nice work!!! :T

For fabrics... take a look  here , maybe you can find something that you like and cheap :innocent:

By the way... about carrying stuff in your car, the mini and 300Z beat me, What do you think about this??? (see spoilers)
*Spoiler* 














*Spoiler*


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## fitzwaddle

Dale Rasco said:


> Looking fantastic Brad! Can't wait to see the finished product!


Thanks - me too! 



RVAtheater said:


> :rofl: Man that is exactly how I feel 90% of the time I'm working on my basement/theater. No one has ever just put it out there like that but thats exactly what I feel like so many times!!
> 
> Thanks for the post! Your theater is going to be really nice. Great job so far.


Thanks RVA!



HuskerOmaha said:


> Brad,
> 
> questions I missed from looking through here that only I may care about...
> 
> Your steps up to your doors (outside)...is that stamped concrete or some sort of stonework?
> 
> It must really suck in the winter having to walk through snow to get to your theater...oh wait.
> 
> I want to move to Arizona.
> 
> EDIT: Is that your 360 handle at the bottom? Mine is pillpusherx..... how does one get that in here on your sig?


The outside steps are flagstone over a poured concrete base.

76 degrees in Torrance today. :R

Yes, that's my XBox Live gamer tag. I must remember to add you when I get home. I created the gamer card thing at mygamercard.net, and embedded a link to it as an image in my sig here (User CP).



salvasol said:


> Nice work!!! :T
> 
> For fabrics... take a look  here , maybe you can find something that you like and cheap :innocent:
> 
> By the way... about carrying stuff in your car, the mini and 300Z beat me, What do you think about this??? (see spoilers)
> *Spoiler*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 27287
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Spoiler*
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 27288


Thanks, I did get some samples from Dazian that I'm mulling over as well - along with ATS, Rose Brand, GOM (not likely), and another I'm forgetting atm. Checked Joanne's locally, but they have nothing fire retardant.

I don't either of us have very "sheet of plywood" friendly vehicles for sure. :hissyfit:


----------



## raZorTT

salvasol said:


> By the way... about carrying stuff in your car, the mini and 300Z beat me, What do you think about this??? (see spoilers)


LOL you win


----------



## Mark L

Nice looking build so far!


----------



## fitzwaddle

Thanks Mark - hopefully will have something to post as far as updates, but not much pic worthy lately - mounted my column frames, built the surround speaker shelves behind them, built frames to attach to two of the column faces.


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Do you have a table saw for all of your stuff or are you just going old school?


----------



## fitzwaddle

Hehe yeah, I'm old school - or maybe just cheap - just have a circular saw and a $20 rip fence I picked up the other day.


----------



## HuskerOmaha

fitzwaddle said:


> Hehe yeah, I'm old school - or maybe just cheap - just have a circular saw and a $20 rip fence I picked up the other day.


Dang. Go get a table saw, used, craigslist, for like 100. I know you got that layin around!

Way easy! I wish I had one...when I get a ranch style house with a larger basement, I'm going all out on 2.0.


----------



## fitzwaddle

I had the building inspector come by on Monday to check progress (in particular the extra zone of lighting in the soffit that I pulled a supplemental permit for, and subsequently installed) and see what I need to do before I can call for final inspection. Its a different guy than before, apparently they switched up which areas of the city they each cover. Fine by me, this guy seems easier to work with, more patient in explaining things to me as a non-contractor. Had me a little worried at first though:

- soffit lighting: worried about the cans being mounted against a plywood ceiling (soffit bottom), vs. drywall; not sure if they will be allowed, due to CA Title 24 (energy efficiency requirements)
- fabric: specs for FR fabrics need to be reviewed
- closet door: needs to be a 20 minute (fire) door
- outlets buried inside the columns: need to be brought out to the column face or side
- general: need to review load calcs on all electrical

After some research on his end, and mine, and a follow-up phone conversation this morning:

- soffit lighting: I showed him the manufacturer's installation instructions, which explicitly state that mounting against a wood ceiling is OK (other parts can't touch wood, bottom of the can is OK), and he was fine with that part; also said that for whatever reason, I was fine re: the Title 24 concern - he asked if they're on a dimmer, they are, maybe that was part of it, dunno. So I'm good there, whew, I really wasn't looking forward to ripping those all out and replacing with LED equivalents and a transformer.
- fabric: turns out since the fabric in question is inside the room envelope (after the drywall is up), they don't care at all - it doesn't even need to be fire retardant - I'll still get fire retardant fabric though, for my own peace of mind, but won't need to worry whether its FR 701, or ATSM E-84 class A, IFR, PFR, FR, etc.
- closet door: I think he misinterpreted the code on this, I think he was applying the rule for a door between an garage and living space; this is between the HT and the HT closet; the other side of the closet is the garage,
separated by drywall / framing / drywall, which provides the required fire break. After I read the code, and challenged this (in as humble a way as I could), he put me on hold, and either reviewed the code or discussed with a colleague, and came back and said as long as I have 1/2" drywall on the garage side too (I have 5/8" on both sides), I'm fine.
- outlets: they're OK where they are as long as the access panels on the front of the columns are removable (they are), and the outlets are flush to the wall (which is something I need to fix - box extensions were added assuming they would be flush with 1" deep wall panels - need to replace those extensions with shorter mud rings and patch).
- general: he didn't mention the load calcs, maybe he was satisfied since the halogens are on a dimmer? I did verbally go over the load calc for the lighting zone, 10.8 amps for all lights combined.

So I think all I need to do before recalling for final is plug an unused slot in the subpanel and fix those outlets. Not bad! Well, unless he shows up next time and finds something else that he didn't notice last time, which I wouldn't be surprised at.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Took the last couple days off work to get in some real work, HT work that is. I finished building the column face panels for all six columns:




























Picture of the grill guides that attach the column face panels:










and almost finished adding furring strips to all the walls:










Here's one of the concealed outlets that I need to redo the mud rings on, to get the flush with the wall:










I'll be building 1" deep wall panels, sitting on top of 1/2" furring strips - loosely based on the GPowers plan, but wide panels (26" high, ~66" wide - although the width varies slightly due to column placement), built from two layers of 1/2" plywood (vs. 1/2" plywood + 1/2" MDF), and probably rounded off edges, vs. angled. Here's a couple in place, no routered edges yet and not mounted yet:










The 3 big panels on each wall section will be removable; the top and bottom pieces will be permanently attached, so I can add baseboard and crown if I decide to.

Tentatively planning on using ball/socket speaker grill guides to attach them, but maybe velcro. Have used the ball/sockets on my column faces, with no problems, but these panels are much larger, so will have to test it out on a panel or two.

Panels will house 1" OC 703 1/2" off the wall - or maybe 1.5" OC 703. But I'll defer adding the insulation until after I have carpet and furniture in, all the panels built, and have done measurements to see how much absorption I need.

I was waffling a little between doing full fabric frames and just painting it, and adding hung panels later on (fabric sticker shock) - but the fabric panel look is something I've wanted since the outset - once I screwed and liquid nailed down a few furring strips, there's no turning back!

Here's my brad nailer:










I figure I'll be working on these panels for about, oh, the next six months.

Edit: added pictures.


----------



## raZorTT

Good news about the final! :T

For the panels, you may find you don't even need the velcro. I have built a couple frames now and friction fit so far has worked great. It works well for me because I have have trim around the soffit, floor and the middle, so there is something there to hold it.

I also have some industrial strength velcro standing by. I'll have to use it on the screen wall to keep the panels in place. The stuff is might impressive! 4 little pieces on the corners around an inch or so in size is plenty.

Once you get a couple of fabric panels up you'll be glad you got over the shock  :T

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Once you get a couple of fabric panels up you'll be glad you got over the shock  :T


Yeah I can't wait to be looking at something other than primed drywall, and bare lumber / plywood. Looking forward to the fabric covering step!


----------



## fitzwaddle

Added some pics a couple posts up.


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## raZorTT

Nice work! I really love your column design :T


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Nice work! I really love your column design :T


Thanks Razor! I'm kind of winging it, lol, hope they turn out nice once covered up.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Got about 75% of my wall panel frames built and test fitted over the three day weekend (temporarily hung with a few drywall screws to test the fit and spacing between panels). Still need to create three more on the back wall, do the wall with the door to the closet, and then all the bottom panels, but not sure how high the carpet and pad will be, so hesitant to build those - although the bottom will be covered with molding, so maybe I don't need to worry, just make them a little short.


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## raZorTT

Nice work! I got a couple more of my panels covered yesterday 

Are you doing anything special to build the panels? Are you just gluing and screwing?

It looks like you might be using ply that has been ripped down?

Cheers,
Simon


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## HuskerOmaha

I keep staring at your columns. They are going to be AWESOME!:flex:


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Nice work! I got a couple more of my panels covered yesterday
> 
> Are you doing anything special to build the panels? Are you just gluing and screwing?
> 
> It looks like you might be using ply that has been ripped down?
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Thanks Simon - yes, I used 1/2" plywood ripped into strips. I used it first to create furring strips on the walls, liquid nailed and drywall screwed to the walls. Then two layers of plywood to make the frames - lap joints, brad nails, and liquid nails. I was originally thinking about making all the panels removable, using speaker grill ball/socket connectors - that's why the furring strips actually, so the sockets could be emdedded there - but now, hmm, not sure - would be nice to have them removable, but concerned about possible rattles or the wood warps and they start popping out. So I can either stay with those as planned, or use industrial velcro, or a combination, or just fire nails in and attach them permanently. Would be nice to have the option to be able to tweak the treatments after the fact.



HuskerOmaha said:


> I keep staring at your columns. They are going to be AWESOME!:flex:


Thanks Greg! Still undecided on fabric for the sides - looking at faux suedes, faux leathers, or ??? Fabric shopping is a pain.


----------



## Prof.

I think suede would look very nice..I had some suede curtains in my theatre at one time and they did look classy! :T


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Thanks Simon - yes, I used 1/2" plywood ripped into strips. I used it first to create furring strips on the walls, liquid nailed and drywall screwed to the walls. Then two layers of plywood to make the frames - lap joints, brad nails, and liquid nails. I was originally thinking about making all the panels removable, using speaker grill ball/socket connectors - that's why the furring strips actually, so the sockets could be emdedded there - but now, hmm, not sure - would be nice to have them removable, but concerned about possible rattles or the wood warps and they start popping out. So I can either stay with those as planned, or use industrial velcro, or a combination, or just fire nails in and attach them permanently. Would be nice to have the option to be able to tweak the treatments after the fact.


You should be pretty right with ply. I wouldn't expect it to warp at all, especially if it's in a room that will have a pretty consistent temperature.

I've been surprised how well friction fit has gone with my panels. I have velcro there if I need it though.

A suede would look magic, but wouldn't that reflect too much of the high frequencies?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

Actually Simon, it's the timber sides that will tend to reflect the HF's..The suede cloth will tend to absorb them a little..


----------



## raZorTT

oops sorry I meant absorb! lol it's been one of those days!

Which now I think about it you probably want anyway :dumbcrazy:


----------



## Prof.

raZorTT said:


> oops sorry I meant absorb! lol it's been one of those days!


I have them more often than a like!


----------



## Gregavi

Looks great. Any more photos?


----------



## HuskerOmaha

We KNOW you have a nice camera. Now where are the photos?

:fireworks2::fireworks1::fireworks3:lease::yeahthat:


----------



## fitzwaddle

LOL, thanks guys, I will post some new pics tonight. :rofl2: Unfortunately, until I get the fabric up on the panels, its not too exciting - the panels follow the lines of the furring strips, so probably doesn't look too different than just the furring unless you look carefully. But, 9 sheets of plywood later, I assure you its there!


----------



## HuskerOmaha

fitzwaddle said:


> LOL, thanks guys, I will post some new pics tonight. :rofl2: Unfortunately, until I get the fabric up on the panels, its not too exciting - the panels follow the lines of the furring strips, so probably doesn't look too different than just the furring unless you look carefully. But, 9 sheets of plywood later, I assure you its there!


Pictures, Pictures, Pictures.

Then again I'm the guy taking pictures of my step by step building of speaker stands.


----------



## fitzwaddle

The thought on the columns is to be able to stuff at least parts of them with fiberglass for more bass trapping. How sound of an idea, and how much impact the fabric covering has on it, not 100% sure. At least not as reflective as mdf.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Here are some pictures of the fabric frames as they stand (test fitted, but still need fine tuning on size, routing, and sanding). Note that the panels generally run the full width between columns, but the center braces make them look like smaller panels.

back:









front:










left:










right:










The panel for the Grafik Eye was a little tricky:










Wasn't sure what to do with the entry door frame - decided to mount a sheet (will be covered with black fabric) within the door frame, and flush mount the panels against the edge. If it turns out OK, I'll skip adding trim.










The closet door frame had to be handled a bit differently - I ran the furring (and will run the panels) up to the door frame, and will add an MDF strip to extend the door frame up to the panels.










not done with bottom panels (will add after carpet goes in, so I get the height right - or I guess I can do sooner, and leave it high, since I will need to add baseboard anyway):










A couple color schemes I'm considering - tan scheme, which is my front runner:










rust/red color scheme, which I also like - but I've seen so many red theaters, I think I'd prefer to have something different:










Testing to see if flash shows OC 703 / wood through fabric (Duvetyn) - doesn't appear to:










some GoM samples I'm considering (all are lighter than reality due to flash):










I would love to find a FR fabric GoM alternative in a similar color, but having a hard time coming up with on. Just really not looking forward to shelling out $1000 on fabric.


----------



## HuskerOmaha

How are you hiding your staples or are you putting up trim strips?

And wow...that is some nice carpentry work. Bravo. I'm impressed!:clap:


----------



## fitzwaddle

HuskerOmaha said:


> How are you hiding your staples or are you putting up trim strips?


The column sides will have staples on the back, and on the inside edge, which will be covered by the face frames when installed. The face frames will be stapled on the back of the frame, and then reattached. The soffit will have fabric stapled to the inside edge of the tray, and onto a furring strip at the back edge of the soffit / wall junction - when the top panel is installed, it will hide that strip and staples. The wall panels will all be wrapped first and stapled on the back, then attached. So I think I have them all covered. That said, I may add trim - definitely will need baseboards (will be black) and maybe crown (also black).

All the panels will be wrapped with staples on the back side, and then attached. The panels will hide the staples on the 



HuskerOmaha said:


> And wow...that is some nice carpentry work. Bravo. I'm impressed!:clap:


Thanks Greg - by far the biggest construction / woodworking project I've ever taken on. Every step of the project seems to be a leap of faith.

Ordered 30 yards of Commando Cloth for the soffit - hope the vendor works out, best price I could find, but the web site experience did give me pause.


----------



## fitzwaddle

I received a request for some pictures of the panels, so here are a few more showing how I made mine. They aren't perfect by any means - cheap plywood had some voids that caused a little tear out here and there when routing, but hopefully the fabric will cure all defects.

Wall segment chock full of panels (well almost - haven't done the bottom part where it will meet the carpet, since not 100% sure on the height of the carpet and pad). Vertical bracing and shelf is where the column mounts, I took the columns down to prep them for fabric.










Where two of the panels meet up with the rear column - 1/8" space between panels, and between the panels and column sides, to allow for fabric on both. To install the speaker pluggies, I temporarily screwed the panels in place with drywall screws (into furring), then drilled a 1/8" bit through the panel and furring strip. Then removed the panel, and drilled the holes for the ball and socket using those pilot holes, and inserted them. The fabric will of course cover the pilot holes and drywall screw holes.










The same junction, with the panel removed. The staples for the fabric that covers the column sides will be hidden by the edge of the wall panels. You can see here the drywall screws that held the furring strips in place while the liquid nails dried, and the socket for one of the ball and socket guides.










That panel removed, showing the ball part of the grill guides, and the corner lap joints.










Closeup of the lap joint, brad nails, some liquid nails squeeze out, and the ball of the grill guide.










Flip side of the corner - I used a 3/8" roundover - thought about going a little bigger, but router bits aren't cheap, so I decided I like it this way. 










Cross brace on the back of the panel - I didn't double up the cross braces to meet the face like I did everywhere else, so as to avoid any possibility of the bump showing through the fabric.










Where the edge of the panels meets the side column. The 2x2 framing of the column slips into this channel - it is held in place by 10 or so long drywall screws through the column sides into the vertical bracing. The screws will be covered by the wall panels.










...


Commando Cloth is supposed to arrive tomorrow, if FedEx tracking is to be believed - hopefully I can start my adventure in stapling (soffit covering) this weekend!


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Commando Cloth is supposed to arrive tomorrow, if FedEx tracking is to be believed - hopefully I can start my adventure in stapling (soffit covering) this weekend!


Nice work :T

Hope you have an electric or air stapler . I think i'm up to about 6500 staples so far and you've got twice the number of panels that I have.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## HuskerOmaha

raZorTT said:


> Nice work :T
> 
> Hope you have an electric or air stapler . I think i'm up to about 6500 staples so far and you've got twice the number of panels that I have.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Ya, Brad they aren't too expensive. I'd go get a electric stapler soon! You'll have arthritis from all the nails you'll be putting in!


----------



## fitzwaddle

Haha yeah, I borrowed a pneumatic combo brad nailer / stapler and a little compressor from my next door neighbor - worked well as a brad nailer to speed up the panel construction, hopefully works well for fabric stapling too. =)


----------



## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Haha yeah, I borrowed a pneumatic combo brad nailer / stapler and a little compressor from my next door neighbor - worked well as a brad nailer to speed up the panel construction, hopefully works well for fabric stapling too. =)


How big is the crown of the stapler? I originally used a combo brad/stapler but the crown was too small. Only 6mm from memory. I bought a new stapler that had a 12.8mm (1/2") crown. I found the large staples evened out the tension on the fabric.


----------



## fitzwaddle

It's a 1/4" crown - I'll try it initially, and if it gives me any trouble, I'll buy a 1/2".


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Did you get any of the fabric up over the weekend?


----------



## fitzwaddle

HuskerOmaha said:


> Did you get any of the fabric up over the weekend?


Thanks for checking on me Greg - yup, got some work done, my fingers and shoulders are tired.

Got started on covering the soffits with fabric (black 16 oz Commando Cloth) this weekend. I started with a Harbor Freight combo brad nailer / narrow crown (1/4") stapler that I borrowed from my neighbor, but after about 6' of soffit, it started jamming, and then lost pressure, couldn't figure out how to fix it. Looks like I owe him a new one. So I went to HD and picked up a Porter Cable narrow crown stapler, and that has worked great.

Here is my temporary fabric cutting station - I had the triangle scraps sitting on the ground already, just screwed them to a 2x2. Notice the nice fist sized stain on the right side of the roll, goes all the way through apparently - would have been pissed, but (a) I didn't need the full width, and (b) it was far cheaper at $3.99/yd than anywhere else I found.










This stuff is extremely opaque, so there was no need to worry about doing anything to hide the reflective foil on the FSK. Its not real good at the blow test, but since I'm using it over bass trapping, not too concerned. Its also quite heavy, so required some muscling around to get it tight across the wide soffit underside - hope it doesn't sag over time.

First step was to hang the fabric up onto the tray edge using big binder clips - had my son help hold the 24' length of fabric while I clipped it up. The camera flash really washed out the colors, the ceiling is very dark brown, and the fabric is black.










Started stapling at 1" from the top of the tray edge (will cover with some black trim), and then to the furring strip at the edge of the soffit where it meets the wall. I will glue down the strip of fabric above the staples and over the tray edge top - not sure what glue to use yet, don't want overspray, so 777 is out. Maybe just white glue. Or contact cement.



















almost done with the right wall:










right wall done stapling up, and trimmed off the excess:










Cut out the holes for the recessed lights, and added the trim:



















left wall going up:










left wall trimmed, still need to cut out for the lights, and an access panel to get to the outlet that the rope light is plugged into:


----------



## raZorTT

nice job brad :T


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Looks awesome. That is going to be one sweet theater.

I like the color, that second photo is probably a decent shot of the true colors? :dontknow:


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> nice job brad :T





HuskerOmaha said:


> Looks awesome. That is going to be one sweet theater.
> 
> I like the color, that second photo is probably a decent shot of the true colors? :dontknow:


Thanks guys! My pictures aren't great, hard to get a picture that makes the brown ceiling dark enough without making the commando cloth even blacker than it really is (it is black, but not pure jet black really) - this one comes the closest:


----------



## Prof.

Nice work Brad..:T
From the shot above the ceiling looks almost black! Can you see much difference in colour between the cloth and the ceiling?


----------



## fitzwaddle

With the lights on you can tell the difference; with the lights off, don't think so (at least with no PJ yet). Dark colors are hard to capture for me though, as far as digital photos and seeing on the PC what it looks like in person.


----------



## Gregavi

fitzwaddle said:


> I started with a Harbor Freight combo brad nailer / narrow crown (1/4") stapler that I borrowed from my neighbor, but after about 6' of soffit, it started jamming, and then lost pressure, couldn't figure out how to fix it. Looks like I owe him a new one.


Let this be a lesson to everyone. Never buy or borrow a tool from H***** F******. If you buy one, it will break before you finish the job. If you borrow one, you will most likely buy a new one for the borrowee. I'm a General Contractor and every tool we've ever used from HF has broken. China [email protected] Porter Cable was a solid choice.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Hehe yeah, I learned my lesson a while ago with them - bought a drill press from them to save money - well, it still works, but the collar on the adjustable table is cracked, so it won't hold steady against any significant pressure, and the switch is permanently stuck "on", so to turn it off, I have to unplug it. :rolleyesno:


----------



## Gregavi

fitzwaddle said:


> Hehe yeah, I learned my lesson a while ago with them - bought a drill press from them to save money - well, it still works, but the collar on the adjustable table is cracked, so it won't hold steady against any significant pressure, and the switch is permanently stuck "on", so to turn it off, I have to unplug it. :rolleyesno:


You will not save money with them (unless you are going to use the tool once or twice) in the long run. Some of their hand tools are decent, but their power/pneumatic tools are junk. Stick with Bosch, Porter Cable, Milwaukee, Makita, Dewalt, etc.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Pics! Here's a few pics of the soffit as of night before last - still a couple places where I need to trim and tuck and such, but its getting close. The uneven shadows in the rope light are because there is still some fabric sticking up on the inside of the tray that I either need to trim off with a utility knife or glue down or both. I wonder if a glue stick would work, or maybe just a bead of white glue - don't want to do the contact cement back there, would be hard to work inside the tray.

I added the eyeball trims on the screen lights last night, but didn't shoot a picture of it.


----------



## fitzwaddle

*upholstery time*

Last night I had precut some of the vinyl I'm putting on the column sides, and couldn't wait to try it out - so I had at it on my lunch break, managed to get the sides of two of the columns done - the stapling for these sure goes quicker than the soffit, much easier to handle:

I stapled on the first side before I started taking any pics of the process:




























From the start - cut a panel a bit oversize to allow for wrapping/stapling:










stapled the inside edge:










flipped it over and started pulling the material tight and stapling:










done stapling all around:










trimmed off excess, and used xacto knife to cut holes where the mounting screws on the sides go:










right side column done and test fitted:










left side column done and test fitted:










Not screwed down yet, because (a) they will need to be out of the way when the carpet is installed, and (b) I need to cut an inch or so off the bottoms to clear the carpet / pad. Shouldn't be too bad, add a piece of bracing a little higher, cut away the vinyl with xacto knife, and then saw off the bottom. Trim will be covering top and bottom.

Will also need to sand the face panels some, as I didn't leave quite enough clearance for the vinyl and speaker fabric in the nooks.

Fun!


----------



## Prof.

I must have missed that..What type of vinyl did you use? 
It looks to have come up a treat! :T Is this an alternative to staining?


----------



## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> I must have missed that..What type of vinyl did you use?
> It looks to have come up a treat! :T Is this an alternative to staining?


Its Amarillo Deadwood faux leather vinyl, from www.allvinylfabrics.com. I'm quite happy with how its coming out. Yeah, sort of an alternative to staining - I stick-built the columns, but still wanted a sort of rich wood look, hence the shade of vinyl and a little pattern to it. Should allow me to stuff the columns and get more bass trapping.


----------



## Prof.

Ah yes.. I see it's an upholstery vinyl..That's a natty idea..:T
I've never thought of using that sort of vinyl as an alternative to paint or stain!
Looking at my local supplier, there's a huge range of colours and patterns..


----------



## fitzwaddle

*more column upholstery, fabric behind screen*

Finished up the rest of the column sides on Saturday - here are the front and side columns, with the face frames in place (spent a couple hours today belt sanding the edges to make them fit after the vinyl was added):










rear corner columns:










all of the right side columns:










Saturday afternoon, I got the black speaker fabric up over the OC 703 behind the screen wall - the speaker cloth is 102" width, so no seam, covers top to bottom (well except the part on the lower left where I accidentally ripped the fabric, and had to put a patch over it - oh well, its behind the screen wall, so I didn't care enough to do a pretty fix). Looks a bit smudgy, I need to go over it with a lint roller I picked up at Staples:










The LCRs sit on Rubbermaid adjustable shelving - the shelf support rails are attached to vertical 2x4s laid flat, with channels routed in them - allowed me to attach the fabric to the 2x4s after I cut out to expose the rails - edges of the fabric are glued to the inside of the channel with contact cement.

Closeup of channels that the adjustable shelf supports sit in (may need to touch the gold screw heads with a sharpie):










And I received the recessed fixture socket extensions I ordered, so I put the eyeball trims in:










Next step will be to paint the column face frames black, then cover them with speaker fabric. Oh, and take care of some cleanup on the soffit fabric, trim etc.


----------



## raZorTT

*Re: more column upholstery, fabric behind screen*



fitzwaddle said:


> Finished up the rest of the column sides on Saturday - here are the front and side columns, with the face frames in place (spent a couple hours today belt sanding the edges to make them fit after the vinyl was added):


Great work Brad! The vinyl looks great, much easier than spending a week staining! onder:

A few of my panels were subject to an electric planer to allow for a little more room when it came time to wrap them in fabric 



fitzwaddle said:


> Saturday afternoon, I got the black speaker fabric up over the OC 703 behind the screen wall - the speaker cloth is 102" width, so no seam, covers top to bottom (well except the part on the lower left where I accidentally ripped the fabric, and had to put a patch over it - oh well, its behind the screen wall, so I didn't care enough to do a pretty fix). Looks a bit smudgy, I need to go over it with a lint roller I picked up at Staples:


The front wall looks great 

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

Thanks Simon. :bigsmile: If I had a power planer, I definitely would have used it, but trying to keep a lid on the tools gathering part of the build, the table belt sander works, but is definitely pretty slow going.

I really like the look of the vinyl, and its thick enough to hide any little boo boos underneath pretty effectively, which is nice. Glad I spent a little more on the material vs. some others I was considering, I think it will be a nice accent and add a little interest.


----------



## Dale Rasco

Wow! I am such a slacker......:rolleyesno:


----------



## Prof.

It's looking very nice Brad..:T
What was the reason for the adjustable shelving?. You may have mentioned this before but I can't recall the reason..


----------



## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> It's looking very nice Brad..:T
> What was the reason for the adjustable shelving?. You may have mentioned this before but I can't recall the reason..


My thought was flexibility to adjust speaker height / placement - ability to move tweeter height to accomodate changes in seating height, fine tuning for the two rows, change to different LCR speakers - could also accommodate doing A/B testing if I put a switch in somewhere behind there.

Probably overkill, but what the , its in now. :neener:


----------



## Prof.

They all sound good reasons for having adjustable shelving..
My only concern is that it's going to place your speakers hard up against the front wall, unless they're light enough to be able to move them forward on the shelves..
Generally speaking, it's better to have some space behind the speakers..


----------



## kipg

pimp !


----------



## HuskerOmaha

I agree, your garage is effectively pimped. Now just for accessories.

Can't wait to see all of your fabric up so I can pick my favorite and roll with it. :foottap:


----------



## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> They all sound good reasons for having adjustable shelving..
> My only concern is that it's going to place your speakers hard up against the front wall, unless they're light enough to be able to move them forward on the shelves..
> Generally speaking, it's better to have some space behind the speakers..


A valid point, I'll have to play around and see whether the shelves can support the speakers at the required depth. Each of the L, C and R sit on a shelf with 3 support brackets, so that should help some, perhaps I'll be OK.



kipg said:


> pimp !






HuskerOmaha said:


> I agree, your garage is effectively pimped. Now just for accessories.
> 
> Can't wait to see all of your fabric up so I can pick my favorite and roll with it. :foottap:


Thanks Greg - if I can get just a little bit more of the fabric stuff done, I'll be comfortable calling for the carpet install. Aw , maybe I'll just call tomorrow and set the date out a couple weeks, that will force me to stay on schedule.

I got 14 of the panels for the column faces covered with speaker cloth tonight, I'll shoot some pics when I get the rest of them done. I was wondering whether I'd be able to see through the fairly sheer speaker cloth at all, but it seems to be fine once all the panels are up on a column - didn't bother painting the inside of the column black, I may do so as insurance (flash pics).


----------



## fitzwaddle

column face fabric (Rose Brand speaker cloth) is up (well, temporarily anyway)!

front:










side:










rear:










the gang's all here:










closeup to show the joints between face panels (flash washes the color out, but you can at least see the joint):










I still need to add short panels at the bottom (most of which will be covered with baseboard).


----------



## raZorTT

They look great Brad! You are on a roll!

Have you picked a carpet yet? you must be getting close

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Dale Rasco

Looking awesome Brad, I know you must be getting anxious to get it done! Can't wait to see the finished product!


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> They look great Brad! You are on a roll!
> 
> Have you picked a carpet yet? you must be getting close
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


Thanks Simon - yeah I can't wait to get carpet in, so I can finally put my seats in the room (among other things).

I must have forgotten to post - here's a picture of the carpet samples I looked at - I went with the second from the right, the dark brown diamond pattern. I wanted some pattern for interest, but nothing too over the top - actually I did like some that I saw that were more ornate, but they were priced beyond what I wanted to spend. This will end up about $27/yd installed. I think I'll call and schedule the install, maybe a couple weeks out to give me time to take care of a few more things on the list that I want done before carpet (trim out the soffit fabric, add a couple soffit access panels, fabric above stage behind false wall, patch and paint door jambs, etc.). Actually, now that I look at the list, there are several items, but none should be terribly time consuming, maybe a week is enough if I get busy.












Dale Rasco said:


> Looking awesome Brad, I know you must be getting anxious to get it done! Can't wait to see the finished product!



Thanks Dale, yeah me too - actually even the next milestone, getting carpet in, will be pretty exciting, just so I can finally hear what I actually have with the speakers / sub - and start fiddling with acoustic treatments planning (REW).


----------



## Prof.

The columns are looking very nice..:T I like the choice of carpet as well, it should go well with the rest of the decor..


----------



## raZorTT

Great carpet choice! It's pretty scary how expensive some carpets are . 

Look forward to seeing some more pics!


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Brad,


Hitting refresh this many times on my browser waiting for your carpet to appear is frustrating!:rofl2:


----------



## fitzwaddle

HuskerOmaha said:


> Brad,
> 
> 
> Hitting refresh this many times on my browser waiting for your carpet to appear is frustrating!:rofl2:


I know, it isn't working for me either! :scratch:

I've been working on a list of things I wanted to take care of before the carpet comes - so I don't ruin the carpet - like extending the door casing on the closet door, so the wall panels meet flush; painting door casing / trim; extending the entry door casing with black fabric covered panels; trimming excess fabric inside the soffit tray; adding trim over seams on the soffit fabric; etc. Nothing very exciting or pic worthy.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Catching up on some of my recent piddling but forward (mostly) progress - generally trying to get ready for carpet install - was hoping for this week, but the first day that they can come when I'm at the house will be next week.

The inside of the entry door frame was a sloppily done drywall/mud job that wasn't even and was cracking already, so I decided to fill the jamb with fabric covered panels (speaker cloth over 1/2" plywood - wood on the left side is the edge of a wall frame panel):



















Access panel for soffit lighting junction box:










access panel for concealed outlet connected to rope light:










Gave my screen wall a C section - before:










after:










finished making the last of the wall panels - the bottom row - these will be permanently affixed to the furring once they are covered with fabric - because of the odd shapes, and with the carpet not in yet, I had been putting them off - but I decided to just build them to 1" off the concrete floor, which will be more than enough room for the carpet installers to run the carpet under (and I can remove the panels if they want), and small enough to cover with baseboard.










close up of the same panel - three others basically like this, the ones that butt up against the stage and riser:


----------



## fitzwaddle

Here are some fabric samples I'm pondering:

top to bottom: GoM Broadcast Chinchilla; Dazian Janus Fieldstone; Dazian Janus Bronze:










top to bottom: GoM FR 701 Camel; GoM Framework Stone:










top to bottom: GoM Broadcast Mink; GoM FR 701 Earth:










GoM FR 701 Moleskin; GoM FR 701 Light Moss:










all together, with flash (looks like I need to paint the bracing behind the frames black after all):










without flash, colors look different under different lighting of course:










Whaddya think?


----------



## fitzwaddle

I took a shot at doing a lame render to help decide, but I'm not really very good at it I'm afraid. I used SketchUp, imported a picture of a column, then imported photos of the fabric samples as materials and painted the walls with the materials (carpet sample too). The problem is I had a hard time getting pictures of the samples that accurately portray the colors. I tried shooting the materials both with and without flash, but still had to adjust colors a bit manually to get it to look close by eye - and some still not right. Earth looks too green; Light Moss looks lighter than it should.

Oh well, better than nothing.

This is an attempt at approximating what they would look like in a fairly well lit room; most of the time of course, it would be no light or very low light.

Chinchilla










Camel










Earth










Mink










Moleskin










Light Moss


----------



## raZorTT

Nice work with the final panels Brad :T

Is the plan to have the carpet wrapped around the nose of the riser? 

I think I would lean toward the darker colours, maybe chinchilla, moleskin or mink. What are you leaning towards?

Based on your sketchup mockups I take it you are going the same colour floor to soffit?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

I like the Chinchilla or the Moleskin..


----------



## Prof.

Haha..you just beat me to it Simon!


----------



## fitzwaddle

Yes, planning just one wall color top to bottom. I didn't build the panels with any kind of a chair rail in mind, so one continuous color would probably look better.

Well...I'm having a hard time choosing, so looking for thoughts on reasons to eliminate some of my choices.

I'm down to 5 out of the 9 I was considering - I eliminated the two Janus samples, because the weave is very fine, not much texture to it; I eliminated Framework "Stone" and 701 "Moleskin" - in person, they are a bit too gray I think.

The two Broadcast samples are "Mink" and "Chinchilla" - Mink might be too close to black, in anything but full lighting, it might just blend into the blackness. But I really do like the pattern in the Broadcast line, so the somewhat lighter Chinchilla is one of my top choices as well. The pics don't do it justice, here's a closer shot - the brown in it stands out more in person than the pic shows:










So its probably my #1 - up close, it looks a bit more refined vs. the 701 - but the 701 Light Moss and Earth samples would give me more contrast with the column, floor and ceiling colors, which is nice.

Ahh, I think I found a good reason to eliminate Camel - the VSS line is $21/yd. :blink:

So, I guess its down to Chinchilla, Light Moss, and Earth.

Anyone want to help me eliminate two more? :help:


----------



## HuskerOmaha

I like voting multiple times.

I think Chinchilla is the best....but Light Moss isn't too far behind...I just prefer those color choices if I were doing your project quite a bit more than Earth if you stick to one color.

Great work.:flex:


----------



## fitzwaddle

After looking at them off and on today, Chinchilla just seems right - putting it next to the vinyl sample a sample of black fabric, with lights on, there is enough contrast I think. Plus I like the way the material looks better than the 701 as far as pattern/texture/weave. And its $2 cheaper than 701. :T

:fireworks2:

We have a winner - Chinchilla!
:fireworks1:

Forgot to answer a question Simon had earlier - yes, the carpet will be wrapped over the bullnose on the riser and stage.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Just placed my order with fabricmate, 38 yards of Chinchilla, hope its enough - I used CutList to work out how to cut the material with minimum waste, and added an extra yard, hopefully I didn't forget anything, if its like my previous attempts, I overestimated a little. I ended up with WAAAY too much Commando cloth - I suspect the vendor accidentally sent me about twice as much material as I ordered. :whistling:

I'm all in!


----------



## raZorTT

Nicely job Brad :T

I think Chinchilla is a good compromise between having a bit of colour difference from your columns and not being too light that it might annoy you reflection wise  :T

Did they give you an ETA?

Have you got an electric or pneumatic stapler ready?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## fitzwaddle

No ETA yet, since I ordered Saturday morning - they're supposed to call to tell me the shipping costs and authorize it - I was hoping to get it by the coming weekend, but doubtful, unless their express shipping isn't too expensive.

Yup, the stapler is ready to go - I'm already about 8000 staples into the project already with the soffit and columns. :blink:


----------



## HuskerOmaha

fitzwaddle said:


> No ETA yet, since I ordered Saturday morning - they're supposed to call to tell me the shipping costs and authorize it - I was hoping to get it by the coming weekend, but doubtful, unless their express shipping isn't too expensive.
> 
> Yup, the stapler is ready to go - I'm already about 8000 staples into the project already with the soffit and columns. :blink:




BRAD........PICTURES! :highfive:


----------



## fitzwaddle

Yay, carpet is done. 

First pic is lighter than in person, last two are closer to the actual color.




























Wanted to put the columns back in the room, but it appears that the gap between the 2x2 mounting strips and 1/2" plywood furring strips has shrunk (wood swelled), so they won't fit. Grr. Need to figure out how to whittle down either the back "rails" of the columns or the furring strips, probably the latter.


----------



## raZorTT

Way to go Brad! The carpet looks amazing  :T 
How long did it take them from start to finish?

So I guess we can expect some panel photos soon


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Way to go Brad! The carpet looks amazing  :T
> How long did it take them from start to finish?


They (well, one guy and his wife - wife just helped clean up) were a bit slow, but did a good job as far as I can tell. He started on Friday, and came back 1/2 day Saturday to finish.



raZorTT said:


> So I guess we can expect some panel photos soon


My GoM arrived today. :bigsmile:

Although it might be easier to measure the room, apply treatments (hang loosely into furring strips), re-measure, etc., before covering the panels. Otherwise, I can see myself putting them up, measuring, taking them down, etc.


----------



## raZorTT

yeah definitely get the treatments up first 

looking forward to the next update


----------



## Prof.

The carpet looks great..:T


----------



## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> The carpet looks great..:T


Thanks Prof.


----------



## fitzwaddle

Here's some updated pics with the columns back in and the seating installed.



















ghetto wiring - need a power strip with a longer wire, and something to cover the wire on the carpet:



















going to test out a few sub orientations, starting with this one:










bunged column face panel before I fixed it - wasn't too bad to fix fortunately:










This weekend, I'll try to get the rack wired up again and installed - had to remove everything to get it out when they put in the carpet, it was just too heavy and awkward to move. Hoping that the casters roll OK on the carpet in the closet. Then measure to see what the sub response looks like in various locations behind the screen.


----------



## Wull

I've been following this from the start, well checking out your fab picture updates. It looks great. What covering are you going to put on the walls?


----------



## fitzwaddle

magicj1 said:


> I've been following this from the start, well checking out your fab picture updates. It looks great. What covering are you going to put on the walls?


Thanks magicj1, I'm going with GoM Broadcast Chinchilla (back a couple pages I had a few alternatives I was debating) - top in this picture:


----------



## Wull

Very nice. I look forward to seeing the end result..... So far all the hard work looks like it is paying off, you've done really well :T


----------



## raZorTT

Brad,

The seating looks fantastic :T

I have the same ghetto wiring for my recliners 

Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Brad,

While I think of it. Have you thought about running a router around the inside of all of your wall panels? Just to take off the sharp corner? I pushed against one of my panels accidently yesterday while trying to install the projector and I can see a very faint line. I'm pretty sure sliding a piece of cardboard down there and a light iron will fix it up, but thought id mention it.

If you took off all the corners it would be much less likely to happen.

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

The chairs look very nice in there..:T You certainly have a ton of room!!


----------



## nebrunner

Beautiful room! I have a chair question for you. We are building a dedicated room in my basement and will have room for about the same amount of chairs that you have. I have been doing a bit of chair shopping on my own without my wife involved at this stage. 

Pricing can be anywhere from $500-$800 per chair (and up, of course, but that is out of our range). Now those prices aren't too bad, but that is on a one chair basis, you take that times 8 or 9 and add tax/shipping... :crying: How did your wife handle that number?


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Brad,

I think I'm going to go with the black speaker fabric you sent me....

Was that just from one location or multiple (rosebrand...etc)? Thanks and looking good!


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> Brad,
> 
> The seating looks fantastic :T
> 
> I have the same ghetto wiring for my recliners
> 
> Simon


Not as nice as yours, but they'll do. :clap:



raZorTT said:


> Hey Brad,
> 
> While I think of it. Have you thought about running a router around the inside of all of your wall panels? Just to take off the sharp corner? I pushed against one of my panels accidently yesterday while trying to install the projector and I can see a very faint line. I'm pretty sure sliding a piece of cardboard down there and a light iron will fix it up, but thought id mention it.
> 
> If you took off all the corners it would be much less likely to happen.
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon


I did try to round over those sharp edges with an orbital sander, when it comes to fabric covering time, I'll give them a once over to be sure. Thanks for the heads up!



Prof. said:


> The chairs look very nice in there..:T You certainly have a ton of room!!


Thanks Prof - in the room, the seats feel like they really fill it up, but in the pictures, they look really dinky. I prob have room for another seat in the front row (or loveseat) - although it might be hard to find another matching Berkline in the pipeline. At least this way, plenty of room to get by on the sides, and ample distance to side surrounds.



nebrunner said:


> Beautiful room! I have a chair question for you. We are building a dedicated room in my basement and will have room for about the same amount of chairs that you have. I have been doing a bit of chair shopping on my own without my wife involved at this stage.
> 
> Pricing can be anywhere from $500-$800 per chair (and up, of course, but that is out of our range). Now those prices aren't too bad, but that is on a one chair basis, you take that times 8 or 9 and add tax/shipping... :crying: How did your wife handle that number?


Yeah, it definitely does add up, kind of scary that the seating will cost as much or more than the projector. 

She hasn't tracked the expenses all that closely. Maybe she's just numb at this point. She does ask once in a while "are we still on the budget" though - not quite sure what that means, I'll have to look into it.

Ultimately, I think as long as the bills get paid, she's not too concerned. I always seem to have some expensive hobby or another - this one just maybe a bit more expensive than usual. :whistling:



HuskerOmaha said:


> Brad,
> 
> I think I'm going to go with the black speaker fabric you sent me....
> 
> Was that just from one location or multiple (rosebrand...etc)? Thanks and looking good!


Thanks Greg - Rosebrand is the only place I've seen that carries that particular (wide) speaker cloth. One thing I forgot to mention, the wide material comes folded in half on the roll. After I cut out my pieces, I ironed them to try to get rid of the fold mark, although it probably wasn't really necessary, since once stretched over a panel and stapled, it probably would have pulled the fold mark right out anyway.


----------



## nebrunner

"She does ask once in a while "are we still on the budget" though - not quite sure what that means, I'll have to look into it."


:rofl:


----------



## HuskerOmaha

I have a new idea for bass for you or nebrunner, since I don't have the space right now:nono:

1-2 DTS10 kits (handling <10-50Hz)
1-2 JTR Growler DUO (handling 45-90Hz)
Behringer DCX2496 to EQ


Not sure on total price, but..I might write this down for my future plans if IB won't work in the next house....


----------



## fitzwaddle

You're a sick man, Greg.

I like that. :T


----------



## HuskerOmaha

So you are going to do it? :huh: (subs....do it....appease the beast)

Just think how sweet Battlefield 3 and MW3 will sound.

I'm also trying to decide if I should copy your side wall panel integration for my screen wall....? Then I could do around the screen and not behind it....going to reread your thread at work tonight.

Think it would work? Going to order fabric in the next couple days....after I find that tool you suggested for calculating area needed.


----------



## fitzwaddle

HuskerOmaha said:


> Think it would work?


Don't see why not - certainly not the only way of course. I'm going to do the same panel approach to cover my false wall.


----------



## HuskerOmaha

fitzwaddle said:


> Don't see why not - certainly not the only way of course. I'm going to do the same panel approach to cover my false wall.


I'm going friction fit like chinadog (Bud).

:coocoo:

So, how do you like the chairs?


----------



## fitzwaddle

HuskerOmaha said:


> So, how do you like the chairs?


So far so good - haven't spent much time sitting in them yet really, since most of the time when I'm in the HT, I'm still puttering around and not sitting still.

I do get some chair envy when I check Simon and Jason's though. :T


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Thanks for the speaker fabric sample. I ended up going with it, and using the "fuzzy" warmer side for the outside, looks better matching to the velvet on the Carada.

Hopefully I'll get done tonight!


----------



## fitzwaddle

HuskerOmaha said:


> Thanks for the speaker fabric sample. I ended up going with it, and using the "fuzzy" warmer side for the outside, looks better matching to the velvet on the Carada.
> 
> Hopefully I'll get done tonight!


Nice, glad its working out!


----------



## fitzwaddle

Created a separate thread for REW / EQ trials and tribulations:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/45818-pimp-my-fr-rt60.html


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Brad,

Some interesting and I imagine frustrating results in the REW thread :scratch:

Have you tried the sub in the room (ie not behind the screen wall) to see if those peaks/nulls change?

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Herbchemist

Brad,
Great thread...thanks for taking the time to put this information together. I'm just starting my project, and it's nice to have notes from those who have gone before.

Quick question about your floor. Did you perform any special treatments on the concrete between the front stage and rear riser, such as lifting it? Also did you fill your riser/stage with sand or insulation?

I've read on other posts, that this is sometimes done to help the acoustics of concrete.

Scott


----------



## fitzwaddle

Herbchemist said:


> Brad,
> Great thread...thanks for taking the time to put this information together. I'm just starting my project, and it's nice to have notes from those who have gone before.


Thanks Scott. :wave:



Herbchemist said:


> Quick question about your floor. Did you perform any special treatments on the concrete between the front stage and rear riser, such as lifting it?


No, nothing really - just pad and carpet over bare concrete.



Herbchemist said:


> Also did you fill your riser/stage with sand or insulation?


The stage is filled with sand; the riser with insulation.


----------



## HuskerOmaha

Brad,

Have you given more thought to getting a couple DTS10s behind your screen coupled with a half dozen MFWs or a couple Growlers to handle the midbass?

I bet your REW graphs would be much easier. :yikes:


----------



## fitzwaddle

Bought a used JVC RS-20U that was listed on videogon a couple nights ago. So far so good! The seller was local, so was able to check it out before forking over the $$.

A few sloppy pictures - will try to get some better ones this weekend. The screen is 4 yards of $2.99/yd bleached muslin from Joanne's, which I'm using temporarily to get a feel for whether I want 2.35:1 or 16:9, and what size (i.e. as big as possible, while balancing the limits of what the PJ can reasonably support).

My plan is 2.35:1, but playing with Dark Knight and its oddball aspect ratio switches has given me pause. How do other 2.35:1 screen users deal with it? Just let it spill over when it goes 16:9? Any other movies that pull this nasty stunt?

New toy:










Ghetto "mount" (Chief universal mount ordered):










Ghetto screen:










Not bad for a $12 screen that's too short and held up by four C clamps:










(that's 122" wide, low lamp, 600 hours on the bulb, and User 1 setting, as set up by previous owner's calibrator, -8 iris)


----------



## fitzwaddle

Some progress on the fabric panels yesterday. The material I selected is quite fussy with regards to tension, due to the little bit of sheen in the weave pattern - seems that if the tension isn't perfectly even, it shows as a bit of a streak. Hoping that over time, it will settle a bit, and even out - also, the pictures make it look a bit worse than it is in person, and when I took the pictures, the soffit lights were pointed in towards the panels, I have since pointed them straight down, which helps. And, I adjusted my technique after the first few panels, and seem to be getting a bit better results.

First panels up on the right side:










A few more: 










The left side (working my way from the front to the back of the theater:










Up close to show that shimmer thing (that dimple will be hidden behind a screen side panel fortunately):


----------



## raZorTT

nice work Brad! :T

It's really starting to come together!

It looks like the shimmer gets worse when there is more light shining on them. Hopefully it will be barely noticeable when you are actually using the theatre and the lights are dimmed to about 1/3 of what you'd need while working on things.

Keep that progress coming!

Cheers,
Simon


----------



## Prof.

That's a pity really because otherwise the panels look great..Hopefully those lines won't be too noticeable..


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> nice work Brad! :T
> 
> It's really starting to come together!
> 
> It looks like the shimmer gets worse when there is more light shining on them. Hopefully it will be barely noticeable when you are actually using the theatre and the lights are dimmed to about 1/3 of what you'd need while working on things.
> 
> Keep that progress coming!
> 
> Cheers,
> Simon





Prof. said:


> That's a pity really because otherwise the panels look great..Hopefully those lines won't be too noticeable..


Yeah, I'm not too worried actually, as I've gotten going, my technique has improved (and I deliberately started with some panels that will be half obscured in the front by the side panels to the screen wall) - I can still see a bit of the effect with certain lighting, but I think I'll be able to play with the lighting angles and such and end up happy.

I wonder also if using frosted bulbs might help, hmm, maybe will buy a few to see - or wider dispersion pattern bulbs. I think its accentuated by the tight spot beam shining straight down.


----------



## raZorTT

I found that as I had done more panels I probably used less tension

Is that what you are finding?

Simon


----------



## Prof.

fitzwaddle said:


> I wonder also if using frosted bulbs might help, hmm, maybe will buy a few to see - or wider dispersion pattern bulbs. I think its accentuated by the tight spot beam shining straight down.


Spot beams do tend to accentuate any flaws or marks in the panels..Flood lights might be the better alternative..


----------



## fitzwaddle

raZorTT said:


> I found that as I had done more panels I probably used less tension
> 
> Is that what you are finding?
> 
> Simon


Yes, that's part of it. Also, I found that I get more consistent results if I first get the fabric stapled to both of the "short sides", then work on the "long sides" (from the middle out, alternating back and forth between the two long sides).


----------



## HuskerOmaha

fitzwaddle said:


> Yes, that's part of it. Also, I found that I get more consistent results if I first get the fabric stapled to both of the "short sides", then work on the "long sides" (from the middle out, alternating back and forth between the two long sides).


I was going to suggest what Razor was saying yesterday and forgot to post...the tighter I got my speaker fabric on the panels, the more it seemed to show the wood frame when utilizing the flash in closeups, etc...

I started on the short side stapling the whole side, then worked my way evenly down the long sides, then stapled the middle of the last short side, and worked the corners lastly....worked very well....


I keep staring at your carpet choice--love it.


My own thread is at 6,666 views. Kind of me out. :coocoo:


----------



## fitzwaddle

Almost done with the fabric panels - one more in the back to do (GrafikEye panel), and four at the bottom aren't affixed yet, just sitting there. Hard to get a good picture with a room this dark, but this is at least better than earlier attempts - the "streaks" don't show as much in person, but still a little - still need to work on lighting, or stretching, ...or just keep the lighting low. 























































Temp screen theater - I'm liking 63" high for 16:9 and 58" high for 2.35:1 - which I could either implement as 63" high 2.35:1 (would have to mask down 4 ways for 2.35:1 - assuming I mask at all), or more or less CIA (wide enough for the 2.35 size I like, tall enough for the 16:9 I like - mask two ways for each).

16:9 - 63" high



















2.35:1 - 58" high


----------



## raZorTT

Hey Brad

It looks sensational! You have to be pleased! The colour combinations are brilliant

Cheers
Simon


----------



## raZorTT

Any more progress??


----------



## HuskerOmaha

The colors do look quite amazing in those latest pictures. Congrats on a job well thought out and undertaken!


----------



## fitzwaddle

Thanks for the bump Simon - I've mostly been a lazy sloth since the projector and fabric went in - go figure :innocent: - but I did get my screen built, but not hung yet:

I was planning on building a DIY frame for Seymour DIY AT material - but ran across a review of Jamestown Home Theater screens a while ago, and thought "why couldn't I use that inexpensive frame, and replace the material with Seymour AT fabric?". So I contacted Chris Seymour (Seymour A/V) and James Millard (Jamestown HT) to discuss it, and they said it should work.

So I purchased 13' of the Seymour CenterStage XD material, and hired James to build me a custom 136"x64" viewable frame (no material). The material arrived last Thursday, and the frame Friday, so I set about putting it together. Not quite done, but close - still need to paint the center supports with flat black and hang the screen (thinking hinged, for easy access behind the screen). This far took me about 3 1/2 hours, not hurrying. Since these pics, I've trimmed the excess and did "final" tensioning, worked out nice and clean.

I'll add some screen shots once the screen is hung.





















































































































































































Flash shows reflection from center supports; will paint them flat black. No noticeable reflection while watching a few movie clips on it.


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## raZorTT

Nice work on the screen! :T it looks brilliant.

Is that a scope screen? my calculations, which are probably wrong, is about 2.125:1 ratio?

How is the material tensioned?? Is it the metal bar over the top?

Getting sooo close now though. What's left to go?

Simon


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## fitzwaddle

Hmm, my reply disappeared - try again:

Thanks Simon - your calculations are indeed correct. I went in thinking CIH, but as I played with different screen sizes on my temporary screen, I came to the conclusion that CIA is more my cup of tea. When I sized for ideal 2.35:1 width, my 16:9 was underwhelming / not immersive enough; when I sized for ideal 16:9 height, my 2.35:1 was way too wide (to me). So (and since I'm zooming, no lens in the plan) I decided to optimize for my ideal 16:9 height, and my ideal 2.35:1 width. Maybe masking later, but not planning on it initially based on my experience so far.

On my todo list: hang the screen (hinged for easy access); acoustic measurements and treatments (my panels are empty - and need to buy a proper mic / preamp); split A/C install - need to make some calls and get some quotes; false wall and proscenium panels; fix FIOS / internet wiring and get a switch and wireless access point set up; trim and baseboards; maybe build a second THT LP. Probably a few other things I'm not thinking of.


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## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Hmm, my reply disappeared - try again:
> 
> Thanks Simon - your calculations are indeed correct. I went in thinking CIH, but as I played with different screen sizes on my temporary screen, I came to the conclusion that CIA is more my cup of tea. When I sized for ideal 2.35:1 width, my 16:9 was underwhelming / not immersive enough; when I sized for ideal 16:9 height, my 2.35:1 was way too wide (to me). So (and since I'm zooming, no lens in the plan) I decided to optimize for my ideal 16:9 height, and my ideal 2.35:1 width. Maybe masking later, but not planning on it initially based on my experience so far.


Sounds like a great compromise then :T

I must admit I am not really bothered when I watch 16:9 material on my scope screen. If I do decide to setup masking I think it will be motorised curtains 

Cheers,
Simon


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## Prof.

Nice screen material..:T I'm using the XD myself and very happy with it..
I'm sitting 9' from it and still can't see any weave..

I can't work out what tensioning system is used on that frame..Was it easy to get a smooth screen?


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## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> I can't work out what tensioning system is used on that frame..Was it easy to get a smooth screen?


The frame itself is made of roughly 1x4 hardwood; on the back of the hardwood are about 3/4" hollow square tubes, that are screwed into blind nuts in the hardwood - you loosen all the screws, and slip the fabric (tab cutouts) under the square tubing between the screws, pull to tension the fabric, then tighten the screws. Sort of like stretching fabric on a frame - start in the middle of each side and work your way outwards - but instead of staples, you just tighten the screws. It was quite easy really, took about 1/2 hour to tension, and worked perfectly first time, dead flat as far as I can tell.


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## Owen Bartley

Brad, the theatre looks AMAZING, I love what you've done so far. I'll be following your progress closely to see the final result. I did want to ask you about your fabric panels. I just started looking into the Fabricmate track system, did you consider it at all? I'm wondering if it would be easier. (NOT meant to be a knock on your method or results at all! I, however, don't trust myself to be as patient and consistent as you, and I really like the beveled edges they have) For all I know their system is much harder to use than the method you're using, and more expensive to boot. Was it not too bad to measure, build, and fit your panels? I didn't see what you're using as acoustic material beneath the panels, or how you are attaching them to the walls (permanent or removable?), but boy, does it ever look great.


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## fitzwaddle

I considered other methods, such as the track systems, or one where you staple to furring strips at the top, middle and bottom, then cover the middle one with chair rail. But I really liked the fabric frames look once I saw a few theaters with it, such as GPowers; and I wanted my panels to be removable, so I could tweak acoustic treatments if/when needed. Pretty sure the track system would be easier, has to be faster, building all the panels is fairly time consuming. I thought my approach would be significantly cheaper as well, but not so sure anymore, once you add up plywood, staples, liquid nails, brad nails, tools acquired along the way required to do it, etc. But as a bonus, I have some nice pneumatic tools now that I can use on future projects "for free".

Measuring and fitting wasn't too bad - not too many screwed up - had to spend some time with a belt sander to trim them up to allow for a good fit once the fabric was added (didn't know the thickness in advance).

All the big panels are removable - they are held in place by 6 speaker grill ball/socket connectors each. My panels are 1" deep and sit on 1/2" furring strips, for a 1.5" total depth; no acoustic treatments in place yet, still need to get a mic and preamp, and do full range REW measurements to determine how much absorption to add - planning either 1.5" 703 or 1" spaced 1/2" off the wall. Should I have gone deeper? Probably. Not too worried about it, it sounds pretty good already just with fabric and the bass trapping.


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## Prof.

fitzwaddle said:


> The frame itself is made of roughly 1x4 hardwood; on the back of the hardwood are about 3/4" hollow square tubes, that are screwed into blind nuts in the hardwood - you loosen all the screws, and slip the fabric (tab cutouts) under the square tubing between the screws, pull to tension the fabric, then tighten the screws. Sort of like stretching fabric on a frame - start in the middle of each side and work your way outwards - but instead of staples, you just tighten the screws. It was quite easy really, took about 1/2 hour to tension, and worked perfectly first time, dead flat as far as I can tell.


That sounds like a very simple effective way of tensioning the fabric..Now I see the reason for the cut outs..
It sounds like that idea could be adapted for a DIY frame..:yes:


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## fitzwaddle

Prof. said:


> That sounds like a very simple effective way of tensioning the fabric..Now I see the reason for the cut outs..
> It sounds like that idea could be adapted for a DIY frame..:yes:


Yeah, I'm sure it could - but for the price I paid for the frame, and the time saved, DIY seemed a lot less appealing! I'm happy to move on to the next DIY thing. :T


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## Owen Bartley

Thanks Brad, it sounds like you put a lot of thought (and work!) into your panels, and having them removable is a great idea. One of the reasons I thought the track system might be a plus is that if you ever spilled something or damaged a panel, it should be easy to replace the fabric, but you've got that covered as well. 

I think you should be good with 1 1/2" depth for treatment, and somehow I doubt you'll use the full space in all your panels if you're measuring and adjusting. Actually, you could put in the perfect mix of absorption and diffusion panels, and they would all be hidden away. A couple of staggered DIY diffusion panels should be no problem for someone of your skill level, and might be helpful when you get to dialing in the room.


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## fitzwaddle

Yesterday I finally got around to hanging the screen. I used a pair of 4' long piano hinges from Home Depot. Because the square metal tubing that stretches the fabric sits proud of the wood frame by 3/4", I first added 1 1/2" x 3/4" poplar under where the hinges go. The poplar strips connect to the poplar frame with 1.25" gold screws; the hinge is connected to the poplar strip with the dinky 1/2" long screws that came with the hinges; the other side of the hinge is connected with 1.25" gold screws to 2x3 cross bracing I added to the false wall. Those 1/2" screws seem a little iffy - but there are going into hardwood, and there are a LOT of them (about every 2 inches along the hinges), so hopefully it will be OK, as the screen isn't all that heavy.

I still haven't painted the vertical braces, you can see the reflection from the flash. I'll need to take one of them out, paint it, wait for it to dry, put it back, and then repeat for the second one - so the screen stays stretched. Or maybe I could make a temporary wood brace to keep it tensioned and work on both braces at once.

The faint circle on the left of the first pic is from the camera, not the screen material - tiny raindrop landed on the mirror when I was changing lenses during a holiday trip, and I haven't gotten around to cleaning it.

Here's the screen, under full light:










under low / screen wash light:










hinge detail:










reference screen shots:



















more screen shots - 2.35:1:













































































































16:9





























stretched 16:9 (zoom to widen, throw away some content on top and bottom) - I accidentally watched some 16:9 this way because the velvet frame eats light so effectively that I didn't notice I was overshooting quite a bit. Not bad depending on the content.


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## raZorTT

looks awesome Brad!

The screws will be fine. I have the same thing with my BD/DVD columns. Tiny little screws but there are so many of them. 

slightly OT but what lens and camera settings did you use for the screen shots?

Cheers,
Simon


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks Simon - I used a Canon Digital Rebel XT, set the ISO as low as it will go (100), put it on a tripod, and used the Program mode (which gave a fairly long exposure - anywhere between 1/3 and 2 seconds depending on how bright the scene was).

Edit: forgot to add, its the "kit" lens - 18-55 mm, f 3.5-5.6 - nothing fancy.


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## Stuck Pixel

I've read every post in this thread and I have to say, this is the absolute best diy ht build I have seen. Nice job. It's been a while since I've read the thread because it seems you didn't update it for a while. Didn't you pick up a used projector on the cheap? Which one was it and are you still using it. Everything looks perfect. I'm looking forward to more updates but it doesn't seem like you have too much more to do.


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## Prof.

Nice screenshots..The screen has come up a treat! :T


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## fitzwaddle

Stuck Pixel said:


> I've read every post in this thread and I have to say, this is the absolute best diy ht build I have seen. Nice job. It's been a while since I've read the thread because it seems you didn't update it for a while. Didn't you pick up a used projector on the cheap? Which one was it and are you still using it. Everything looks perfect. I'm looking forward to more updates but it doesn't seem like you have too much more to do.


Thanks very much SP, you are too kind. I'm quite happy with how it has come out - here's how it used to look before I started:










The projector I bought and am still using is a JVC RS20 that I bought used locally - not really "on the cheap", but reasonable - $2500, with 600 hours on the original bulb, and with a free new replacement bulb.

I'm sure I'll have plenty of updates, there's always something to do, and I'm not exactly rushing along...especially since its so fun to just watch movies instead of actually working on it. :dumbcrazy:



Prof. said:


> Nice screenshots..The screen has come up a treat! :T


Thanks Prof! Kinda fun trying to find a suitable frame within a suitable scene that shows off color, contrast, etc.


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## engtaz

Very nicely done. Thanks for sharing and enjoy.


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## Owen Bartley

The screen (and your screenshots) look amazing. I'm sure with that many screws you'll have no problems at all, and I wouldn't worry about it.


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks guys!

Finally got around to watching Tron last night. Lots of fun, wow there's a ton of LFE content in it, and the surround effects are really nice, and some of the surround was more full range than the usual fare. I was only listening at like -15, and it had huge impact - can't imagine how people can watch at reference, -15 to -10 feels like the soffits are going to come down on my head.

Ordered a Behringer ECM8000 mic and Audio Buddy preamp, so I can take some full range measurements, and see where I am as far as acoustic treatments need.


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## paul7900

Awesome job man, im just starting a new one so gonna 'nick' a few ideas! Have you found the 12 inch step high enough for the back seats?


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## fitzwaddle

paul7900 said:


> Awesome job man, im just starting a new one so gonna 'nick' a few ideas! Have you found the 12 inch step high enough for the back seats?


Thanks Paul - still not done, but enjoying it nonetheless! Yeah, 12" has been fine - but then, I'm almost always in the front row. :whistling:


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## ALMFamily

Great job all around Brad - it is an amazing room! :T:T

As I said with Simon's build thread, I especially appreciate the level of detail you provided all throughtout your build thus far.

Hope to see some new pics soon!! :bigsmile:


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## fitzwaddle

Thanks ALM.

I haven't updated for a while because - well mostly because I've been watching movies instead of finishing the room! :nono:addle::rolleyesno::whistling::hissyfit::huh:

I'm currently working on a second THT LP sub - the first one lays down horizontally, corner loaded into the left wall; the second will either shoot into the right wall or center, depending on what measures better. I hope to drag it into the room tonight, so I can hook it up, check for leaks, caulk any that I find, and then get it in place and test response tomorrow.

Edit: as I mentioned before, my screen is hung by piano hinges at the top - I'm a little tempted to put it a couple linear actuator motors to lift the screen for access - but the prices I've seen are $100+ each, not sure I want to invest that much just to have a whizbang screen lift when I need it, which shouldn't be all that often. I dunno - someone talk me into it! (or link me to somewhere I can get them cheaper!!)


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## raZorTT

fitzwaddle said:


> Thanks ALM.
> 
> I haven't updated for a while because - well mostly because I've been watching movies instead of finishing the room! :nono:addle::rolleyesno::whistling::hissyfit::huh:
> 
> I'm currently working on a second THT LP sub - the first one lays down horizontally, corner loaded into the left wall; the second will either shoot into the right wall or center, depending on what measures better. I hope to drag it into the room tonight, so I can hook it up, check for leaks, caulk any that I find, and then get it in place and test response tomorrow.
> 
> Edit: as I mentioned before, my screen is hung by piano hinges at the top - I'm a little tempted to put it a couple linear actuator motors to lift the screen for access - but the prices I've seen are $100+ each, not sure I want to invest that much just to have a whizbang screen lift when I need it, which shouldn't be all that often. I dunno - someone talk me into it! (or link me to somewhere I can get them cheaper!!)


Hey Brad

While its not as fancy as actuators, I have seen a guy use the parts from a foldout clothes line. He lifts the screen up and it locks open so he can get in behind it

Motorised actuators would be cool though :devil:

Cheers
Simon


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## ALMFamily

They would be supercool!! :T

I can just see you sitting in your HT now, not watching movies - just watching the screen flip up and down........... :unbelievable:


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## fitzwaddle

I wonder if the ones used to adjust BUDs (Big Ugly Dish - old satellite dishes) would work - they seem to run cheaper, like around $50 each instead of $100.

http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=8220

Shipping for a pair would be $35 though, so maybe not much savings there.


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## fitzwaddle

I never got around to posting pictures of the second THT LP after I added it, so here it is - I experimented with a a few alternative positions (but still behind the screen), but none were significantly better than my original thought of firing into opposing corners - so that's what I did.




























I made a grill for the first one I built, but decided not to bother on the second, since its behind the false wall.










Also, after thinking and thinking about different ways to prop the screen up when I need access behind the screen, starting with linear actuators, I decided to get off the pot and just do something fairly simple, which you see here - a couple pieces of 3/8" rectanglar steel tube, bolted to the back of the screen frame on one end, and drops into a hole drilled into false wall blocking on the other end.


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## fitzwaddle

*sub measurements*

Here are some measurements of the subs.

I had a measurement of one of the THT LPs mic'ed close to take out (most of) the room influence, but I can't find it atm - basically it showed that the lumps I needed to address were a result of room interactions for the most part, not the sub.

Here are the subs before EQ - L alone, R alone, and both together - and the both together after application of a heaping helping of EQ. As you can see, at the front center seat LP, I had quite a bit of work to do to tame the response.










Ran sweeps again, raising the level a bit at a time, to see how they held up:










I was curious what, if anything, I was getting below 15 Hz - wasn't expecting much, but there is some there - although the graph itself looks very suspicious, perhaps I managed to get a mic that didn't line up to the generic calibration very well (or maybe the ECM8000 can't be relied on at all below 10?).










To verify, I ran the RTA function of REW while sending sine waves from 10 to 20 - even down to 15, it was still managing to incite some lovely buzzes and rattles from the entry door and soffit bits (fortunately, that's not a regular occurrence during movies - and if it does once in a while, well, its supposed to sound like the place is falling apart).


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## em_kaz

looks really great; i have a lot to learn (hhe hee...and that's why i joined)

mk


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## em_kaz

yikes! no problem with standing waves!? cool..........
mk


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## fitzwaddle

*Buttkicker*

I've been curious about Buttkickers, and it had been literally WEEKS since I bought anything A/V related - sad I know. I found and purchased a used Buttkicker LFE kit (BKA1000-4 amp + LFE transducer + couch mounting kit) from a guy on audiogon, and have it in place now. My setup is sort of temporary, I placed the amp on the floor next to the left most seat in the front row, and placed the LFE on the couch kit under the left rear foot of the middle seat in the front row - so the middle and left seat get the thumpage. Works pretty well, very fun. Still evaluating whether I should get a few more LFEs for under the other seats in the front row, or swap out the LFE for the Buttkicker Advance transducers, and mount them inside the seats (LFEs apparently won't fit inside a Berkline 13175).

The reason the amp is on the floor instead of in the rack is that I only ran a sub cable through the riser, no speaker wire.  So I need to figure out a way to get a speaker wire run there after the fact - maybe buried under the lip on the riser or something, not sure yet. Fortunately the amp is completely silent.


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## phillihp23

Bravo!! Awesome job!!:TT


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## Wull

fitzwaddle said:


> I've been curious about Buttkickers, and it had been literally WEEKS since I bought anything A/V related - sad I know. I found and purchased a used Buttkicker LFE kit (BKA1000-4 amp + LFE transducer + couch mounting kit) from a guy on audiogon, and have it in place now. My setup is sort of temporary, I placed the amp on the floor next to the left most seat in the front row, and placed the LFE on the couch kit under the left rear foot of the middle seat in the front row - so the middle and left seat get the thumpage. Works pretty well, very fun. Still evaluating whether I should get a few more LFEs for under the other seats in the front row, or swap out the LFE for the Buttkicker Advance transducers, and mount them inside the seats (LFEs apparently won't fit inside a Berkline 13175).
> 
> The reason the amp is on the floor instead of in the rack is that I only ran a sub cable through the riser, no speaker wire.  So I need to figure out a way to get a speaker wire run there after the fact - maybe buried under the lip on the riser or something, not sure yet. Fortunately the amp is completely silent.


I think you will find a buttkicker fitted inside your couch to the frame will show more control than under the left rear foot. You will need put rubber absorbers to all the feet on your couch.


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## fitzwaddle

phillihp23 said:


> Bravo!! Awesome job!!:TT


Thanks! :T



Wull said:


> I think you will find a buttkicker fitted inside your couch to the frame will show more control than under the left rear foot. You will need put rubber absorbers to all the feet on your couch.


Yeah probably so - I ordered some of the kinetic isolators (rubber feet) to put under the recliners' feet, they should arrive tomorrow - I'll see how that changes the effect, and then decide on LFE vs. Advance.


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## Wull

I found also positioning within my sofa critical, at first I had set mine to close to the back, the 'sofa shake' felt uneven, I then moved it closer to a mid way position, now you can hardly localise the effect. . I am only using one in a 2 seat sofa.


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## typ44q

I love your theater! I am about to start on my basement theater and will be stealing a lot of ideas from you 

Looking at your speaker placement I am guessing that you never did any masking? 

I am looking at getting the same Seymour AT screen material as you with a Jamestown frame (they now sell their frames with Seymour AT screens as an option but it seems very overpriced!) I am limited to about 120" 2.35 screen and not sure if I want to go the CIA route. I plan on getting a JVC X35 projector which has zoom memory but I am not sure about needing masking.

How noticeable are the edges of the screen when watching movies?


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## NBPk402

Looks great! I will def be stealing a few ideas from you on this build for my build. :heehee:


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## lcjr71

Very nice job!! Love it!!


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## fitzwaddle

typ44q said:


> I love your theater! I am about to start on my basement theater and will be stealing a lot of ideas from you
> 
> Looking at your speaker placement I am guessing that you never did any masking?
> 
> I am looking at getting the same Seymour AT screen material as you with a Jamestown frame (they now sell their frames with Seymour AT screens as an option but it seems very overpriced!) I am limited to about 120" 2.35 screen and not sure if I want to go the CIA route. I plan on getting a JVC X35 projector which has zoom memory but I am not sure about needing masking.
> 
> How noticeable are the edges of the screen when watching movies?


Right, I don't have any masking - not willing to pay for commercial products, and haven't developed enough motivation to build my own - but might do so at some point. I can see the dark gray bars, but I haven't found them bothersome enough to get off my butt and make up some kind of solution.



ellisr63 said:


> Looks great! I will def be stealing a few ideas from you on this build for my build. :heehee:





lcjr71 said:


> Very nice job!! Love it!!


Thanks guys! Steal away - not like I didn't steal my share of motivation from others. :whistling:


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