# Need help with my pro audio stuff



## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

Okay I will be using quite a bit of pro audio components in my hometheater. I will be using the Behringer DCX 2496 and the DEQ 2496. I have the panasonic xr57 reciever feeding a Behringer ep1500 and ep2500. I have to use clean boxes to get it up to pro line feed voltage. What I need is an understanding of where in the flow of the chain these behringer components would go. Do I go receiver to cleanbox to dcx to deq to speakers? If you need more info let me know? thanks.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> I go receiver to cleanbox to dcx to deq to speakers?


That’s pretty much it, but don’t forget the amplifiers.  Basically, whatever you’re using to boost the signal should be after the receiver and in front of the pro gear.

Not sure how necessary this, however. The gear can operate at consumer signal levels. As long as there is sufficient signal to drive the amplifiers to maximum output, you’re fine. In addition, the DCX has gain controls for the input signal _after_ the ACD converters. This would probably be a better way of boosting signal, if it needs to be.

Regards,
Wayne


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## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

I am ordering the dcx and deq sept 25th and I was trying to do a layout diagram ahead of time to simplify things.


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## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

Thanks Wayne I was cross posting with you. I found I have to use the clean box with my IB setup so I ordered an extra one with the processors. So to confrm receiver to clean box to amp to dcx to deq to speakers.This layout gives me the most flexibilitly.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Oh, didn’t know about the IB. In that case, you might want to consult with the folks at our DIY Subwoofer Forum.

Still, the DCX has input gain controls that the Behringer digital EQs don’t, and it’ll digitally boost the incoming signal up to 15 dB. I’ll really be surprised if you need the clean box once you put the DCX in the system.

Regards,
Wayne


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## drf (Oct 22, 2006)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> I’ll really be surprised if you need the clean box once you put the DCX in the system.


I'll second this. Also, putting more stuff in your signal path is not always a good idea, unless it's really needed.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> So to confrm receiver to clean box to amp to dcx to deq to speakers


clean box to *amp to dcx* to deq to speakers............... ??????


> If you need more info let me know? thanks.


What is it that you are attempting? 

You have a 7.1 channel receiver that employs its own bass management and has its own internal power amplifiers. Presumably, your 7 speakers (that the receiver would normally drive) use their own internal crossovers.

You are purchasing a (3 input/6 output) loudspeaker management system (DCX) and a (2 channel) parametric equalizer with EQ (DEQ).

What are you proposing and why? :daydream:

brucek


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## MakeFlat (Mar 30, 2007)

I looked at the spec for the XR57 and did not find pre-outs. A good snap shot of the back of the unit should be very helpful in helping us help you.


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## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

Yeah I a guillty of not putting out enough info. I was trying to keep it simple but here goes. I have built a 4ohm wmtw CC and it is a hoss. On top of that I am building some Natalie Ps for mains with seperate bass bins. These are also 4ohms. All of these speakers will handle much more than my pany xr57 which does have pre outs. I have 2 ascendant audio 15" subs that will have a 1/2 a behringer ep2500 powering them. The other 1/2 will power the CC. My current ep1500 will power the Nat Ps. So in short my whole front including subs are much higher wattage than my pany can produce and at a 4om load. 
Now in the future I will get another ep 1500 for the bass bins. I said earlier that the whole front end was 4 ohm but at first the bass bins will be 8 ohm and the pany having the ability to take 2 of the surround channels and use them for bi amping the front mains will temporarily fill this need. Later I will put a couple more drivers in the bass bins causing them to go 4ohm and needing more wattage. 
Also in the future I want to be able to add 2 mach 5 audio 18.4 subs to the IB. When that happens I will move the ep 2500 to just IB use and get a behringer a 500 for the center channel. 
So this is why I feel I need the extra processing. I hope I have made myself clear. I have to keep stuff written down and diagrammed on this set up or I get turned around thinking about it Also please realise that I am adding this stuff as I go and this has been part of a 4 year home theater project that began with me building the dedicated room. Along the way I have had to take on a lot of desciplins that I am totally unfamiliar with. Where is the spell check. Audio theory and acoustics being at the very top of the heap. Audio is the latest one I am getting into and acoustics have pretty much been decided on but will not be finalized till the system is up and running. 
Sorry for the long reply but I thought it needfull to make it all clear. I hope I have not muddied the waters with to much info. Thanks all for looking.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

So, I guess you're using the DCX for the center channel speaker, which has no crossover.

What is the DEQ for?

brucek


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## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

Sorry but I felt I needed to add this. The pannies mains lowest crossover point is 100hz. The biamping setup with using the surround channels actually seperates the surrounds amp as the lower part of the mains signal. Where it crosses over on the top end is not stated. With the bass bins I want to do something like 60 to 80hz and top them off around 250hz. Thus the need for extra processing because all my speakers will be set to large to do this to accomplish this. I hope once again I have made myself clear. Thanks again for reading and any help would be greatly appreciated.


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> The pannies mains lowest crossover point is 100hz.


Yeah, I wonder if you've ever flirted with the idea of getting a higher end receiver. It would solve a few problems.

One of the things that would concern me is operating the DCX in analog mode combined with a DEQ. I'm sure you know that the two devices may contribute to some floor level hiss that you might find objectionable.

You're creating quite a complex system......

brucek


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## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

Well to tell you the truth bru I love this little digital amp. The only problem is the lack of bells and whistles. Please don't take this wrong but I work as an operator of some pretty complicated systems and I have found complicated is often just a bunch of simple systems that are ganged together. I love to tinker so this is right up my alley. When it is all said and done I will need to put some automation in with the pro stuff and get something like a harmony remote with macros to make it work for the rest of my crew. Cheers and have a great day.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Okay – I get it, you’re using the DCX as an outboard processor for the Natalies / bass bins combo.



dynamowhum said:


> All of these speakers will handle much more than my pany xr57 which does have pre outs.


I found an on-line manual, and it shows no pre outputs for anything except the subwoofer.

http://media.onecall.com/Image_Products/Panasonic/SAXR57.pdf

Like brucek, I’m wondering where the DEQ fits into the picture, because the DCX has built-in equalization. The manual doesn’t say how many filters are available, except that using less processing power will make more filters available. Seeing as you probably won’t be using many of the DCX’s features, such as the compressors and dynamic EQ, you might have at least a few filters available, possible more. EQing the mains, that would be enough, so you wouldn’t need the DEQ. ’Course, if you’re dedicating the DEQ to the subs, that’s a different story...



brucek said:


> One of the things that would concern me is operating the DCX in analog mode combined with a DEQ. I'm sure you know that the two devices may contribute to some floor level hiss that you might find objectionable.
> 
> brucek


Ya lost me. DCX in analog mode? Do you mean the extra AD/DA conversions that will happen using two of these units?

Regards,
Wayne


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## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

Hey Wayne you had me going so I looked once again on the back end of my panny and the preouts are there big guy. It is set up for only 5.1 instead of the 7.1. There are actually two sub woofer connections. I just got off a 12 hour shift so I will look up which one does what when I get back up. I had actually forgotten the second one. Cheers


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> Ya lost me. DCX in analog mode? Do you mean the extra AD/DA conversions that will happen using two of these units?


Sorry to be confusing. I guess I'd been reading lately how some people use the DCX digital SPDIF input, so as to bypass the analog front end. This comes from those experimenting with a full digital path from CD through a digital preamp and through the DCX and then finally DAC'd to the power amp.

Anyway, my point was that a DCX and DEQ combo will digitize and undigitize the signal many times and pass through quite a few analog line amps, and may disturb the original pristine signal.

brucek


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## Fred33 (Sep 4, 2007)

Yea I would stick with digital if at all possible. But that is just my preference.


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## dynamowhum (Oct 3, 2006)

Wll being a lot more concious now than yesterday morning I looked once again at what I thought where preouts. They are not. Wayne was correct. Oh boy has my world just changed.
I need some recommendations for either an reciever that does serious 4 ohm load with 7.1 or a 7.1 that has at least 5.1 preouts. Need to keep price to less than $1000. Thanks in advance. 
Now where is that " I hate to be wrong head bashing post I have around here". You guys have a great day.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Yeah, I thought those multi-channel inputs might have been the problem – i.e., mistaking them for outputs.

Don’t know about 4-ohm receivers (you might want to open a new thread in the appropriate Forum), but just about any receiver these days has 5.1 outputs. Sorry yours isn’t one of them! 

Regards,
Wayne


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## brucek (Apr 11, 2006)

> I need some recommendations for either an reciever that does serious 4 ohm load


Have you considered a processor instead of a receiver, since you want to utilize external amps etc?

brucek


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