# Gizmo Arrival - A bedroom system deployment



## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

All,

My Gizmo just arrived. Wow - what a cool little package it is. I love the look and feel. It is just such a sharp looking piece. And S M A L L - small. I had read 4.5" wide but was still shocked at its cool form factor.

It replaces a kenwood 'executive' system amp. The source is an SMC net radio streamer. Sub is x-sub mascarey. Speakers are Acoustic Energy Aespirit AE301.

Here are the pics before and after:
(For scale the ruler is a 6" one)


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## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

A few more pics...

And a question - would it be correct that my sub volume is not tracking with the mains? In other words, is the subwoofer out variable or fixed? If fixed that could be a real bummer. I am hoping I am missing something.


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## userlander (Sep 21, 2008)

looks cool! From the pics I actually imagined it was more like 6x10 or something. It looks bigger in the pics for some reason. 

more importantly, how does it sound?


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## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

Sounds great so far. I enjoy the bass/treble control and i thought i wouldnt. My mains needed a little bump up in the treble zone. Hopefully the sub volume issue of mine can be addressed and then I can take a more serious listen.


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## Guest (Sep 24, 2008)

snock said:


> Sounds great so far. I enjoy the bass/treble control and i thought i wouldnt. My mains needed a little bump up in the treble zone. Hopefully the sub volume issue of mine can be addressed and then I can take a more serious listen.


Howdy snock...

The subwoofer output is summed and then low passed - and tracks the master volume at unity gain... 

This should be cool for any use - so please do stay in touch with Craig, Ray or Billiam about this... 

Many thanks...

mls

Sorry to be hanging out and "answering questions" here...


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

mlschifter said:


> Howdy snock...
> 
> The subwoofer output is summed and then low passed - and tracks the master volume at unity gain...
> 
> ...


No worries, Mark, you are welcome here anytime. :burgerking:


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## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

Thanks Mark and Craig. So that is to say the bass produced by the xsub should go up and down as i adjust the gizmo volume, correct? (just like my HT receiver, for example). My sub output seems to be fixed. When i first set it up, I matched the level by ear at around 15 on the Giz. Then i volumed up and down and the sub level remained the same. What do you guys think? Am I possibly doing something wrong? Thanks. :huge:


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Gizmo does not adjust the volume of the subwoofer with the output of the mains. 

This is something which hopefully will be rectified in the near future. 

I am pondering this situation ....


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## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

OK. It turns out that using the volume control on the net radio player gives me enough control for my uses. Thanks. :salute:


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

craigsub said:


> I am pondering this situation ....



DAC with volume control?


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

m-fine said:


> DAC with volume control?


This just in from Doug ... like this ?

Say hi to Dac-Man ... :huge:



















Look for special pricing on Dac-Man for Gizmo purchasers.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

ooooooooooohhhhh baby! Should I send Doug my shipping adddress, or have you already taken care of that?


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

m-fine said:


> ooooooooooohhhhh baby! Should I send Doug my shipping adddress, or have you already taken care of that?


You may have to come to Erie with Ray for an afternoon and evening of listening, open bar, and Guy Food ... :crowd:


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

craigsub said:


> You may have to come to Erie with Ray for an afternoon and evening of listening, open bar, and Guy Food ... :crowd:


Twist my arm.


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## 1BionicEar (Apr 14, 2008)

Craig, how does DAC-Mac compare to the X-DLS?


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

craigsub said:


> Gizmo does not adjust the volume of the subwoofer with the output of the mains.
> 
> This is something which hopefully will be rectified in the near future.
> 
> I am pondering this situation ....


Ouch...I didn't know this. I wish this information would have been made clear in the product description on the website. I may have to rethink my planned pc setup...

DAC-Man looks like a nice product, but it's unfortunate that I'd need another piece of equipment in order to get the volume of the mains and sub to be controlled together. Not trying to be negative...but this was the main reason I stayed away from the Emotiva BPA awhile back when contemplating a pc system...

Then again, adding a DAC was always a consideraton anyway....hmmmm


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## mditty (Oct 9, 2010)

Why not add a line-in on the DAC? Think of if someone had a wife who wanted to be able to hook up her ipod to your current setup. Seems like if you are going to have 3 inputs why not also have a line-in that just goes through the volume and out the line-out.

Also a bit disappointed if the sub out is fixed. But in my case I don't have a sub currently and I have plenty of places to put it.


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

mlschifter said:


> Sorry to be hanging out and "answering questions" here...


Yeah, because he said he wasn't going to be spending time on the av123 forum anymore, so he needed to feed his addiction somewhere else. :kissass:


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

craigsub said:


> Say hi to Dac-Man ... :huge:
> 
> Look for special pricing on Dac-Man for Gizmo purchasers.


I am so in the market for a DAC right now


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

alphaiii said:


> Ouch...I didn't know this. I wish this information would have been made clear in the product description on the website. I may have to rethink my planned pc setup...
> 
> DAC-Man looks like a nice product, but it's unfortunate that I'd need another piece of equipment in order to get the volume of the mains and sub to be controlled together. Not trying to be negative...but this was the main reason I stayed away from the Emotiva BPA awhile back when contemplating a pc system...
> 
> Then again, adding a DAC was always a consideraton anyway....hmmmm


Doug thinks the fix for this will be an easy one for the second order of Gizmos. 

I understand the "negative" on this, as it seemed to me to be a pretty basic function: the subwoofer out being tied into the master volume.

It was MY BAD, because I did not ask the question. :salute:


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

miked said:


> Why not add a line-in on the DAC? Think of if someone had a wife who wanted to be able to hook up her ipod to your current setup. Seems like if you are going to have 3 inputs why not also have a line-in that just goes through the volume and out the line-out.
> 
> Also a bit disappointed if the sub out is fixed. But in my case I don't have a sub currently and I have plenty of places to put it.


Looking at the back, I wonder if there is room ... I will ask. :yes:


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

craigsub said:


> Doug thinks the fix for this will be an easy one for the second order of Gizmos.
> 
> I understand the "negative" on this, as it seemed to me to be a pretty basic function: the subwoofer out being tied into the master volume.
> 
> It was MY BAD, because I did not ask the question. :salute:


So for those of us that already ordered one (mine should be here today actually)...are we best off to return and wait for the updated batch?


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

craigsub said:


> It was MY BAD, because I did not ask the question. :salute:


I place the blame squarely on Mark Seaton. At the NJ GTG, I took the Scamp prototype upstairs to play with its cousin Gizmo, but Mark made me bring it back downstairs before anyone played with the volume control. I think Mark should be punished for this. I am not sure exactly how just yet, but I am sure as a community we can come up with something. Hopefully whatever we come up with involves big flames and loud noises.

Also, to prevent this type of occurence in the future, I think you should send a prototype of all future products to my house.


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## mojave (Dec 30, 2006)

alphaiii said:


> So for those of us that already ordered one (mine should be here today actually)...are we best off to return and wait for the updated batch?


No, we're better off waiting for the *huge discount* we will get on the Dac-Man so we have volume control for the sub, too.  This way more TCA products get into the hands of people and the company has more exposure.


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

I am thinking take the DAC-MAN discount and then mod your Gizmo. If the fix is quick and easy for the factory, it may be something we can fix with a couple of wires and a little solder. This is TWEAK City Audio after all.


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## userlander (Sep 21, 2008)

that's good to know about the sub-out volume! I think I'll wait for the second batch. :yes:

out of curiosity, how much power would you be expected to lose with the sub inline with the speakers? would the difference be one of volume, or sound quality, or both, or what would be noticeable exactly?


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

mojave said:


> No, we're better off waiting for the *huge discount* we will get on the Dac-Man so we have volume control for the sub, too.  This way more TCA products get into the hands of people and the company has more exposure.


Craig mentioned the DAC-Man special pricing for Gizmo purchasers...he didn't specify it would only be for those that purchased from the 1st batch. Not sure though - maybe Craig can clear this up.

Anyway, even with the discount, it still necessitates buying another piece of equipment if I want the mains/sub to adjust together. If this issue will be taken care of in future productions of the Gizmo...why should I stick with something that isn't what I originally thought, when the newer ones will have that desired feature? 

Again, this isn't a knock on TCA at all. But had I known the sub-output was fixed and that future productions may have the variable sub-out instead...I would've waited to purchase from the newer run.


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

m-fine said:


> I am thinking take the DAC-MAN discount and then mod your Gizmo. If the fix is quick and easy for the factory, it may be something we can fix with a couple of wires and a little solder. This is TWEAK City Audio after all.


I've never done any mods, and to be honest, I don't really want to get into that....easy or not. I'd rather buy something that doesn't require me modifying it or adding another component in order to get it to do what I thought it would. 

If the newer Gizmos will have that feature, then I'd rather go that route. If however, the Gizmo will remain unchanged with a fixed sub-out, then I either keep the one I ordered and plan to add a DAC-Man, or look for an alternative.

Not to mention...wouldn't doing your own mods void the warranty?


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

craigsub said:


> Doug thinks the fix for this will be an easy one for the second order of Gizmos.
> 
> I understand the "negative" on this, as it seemed to me to be a pretty basic function: the subwoofer out being tied into the master volume.
> 
> It was MY BAD, because I did not ask the question. :salute:


Craig -

Will this be clarified on the web site etc for future orders?
Thanks.

Mike


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Here is the deal on Gizmo ...

1. Doug designed it to operate so the subwoofer volume would work with the main speaker's volume.

2. This was changed at the factory, and Doug was not told about the change.

3. Doug is a really straight up guy, and told me what happened. 

4. He is working on a retrofit for the 200 units coming into Denver.

5. To the 200 guys who have a fixed subwoofer output, I am mulling over some options for you. There have been quite a few guys who are very happy with the Gizmo as it is, which is a good thing.

Others are going to wish they had the variable subwoofer output.

We will have more answers pretty soon in regards to retrofitting the 200 which are on the ship now. 

Look for an update over the weekend with some ideas for the guys who have a current Gizmo.

One area in which I need everyone's help ... We are selling these "early" Gizmos to family members here for the $89 to $99, which is $50-$60 less than the Trends 15 watt amp, which offers no bass, treble, crossover ... etc ...

I am hoping people understand this first shipment is also a "shakedown cruise" for the product. Everything we learn from you on these will be considered when we go with the $139 product pricing.


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## alphaiii (Nov 30, 2007)

craigsub said:


> Here is the deal on Gizmo ...
> 
> 1. Doug designed it to operate so the subwoofer volume would work with the main speaker's volume.
> 
> ...


 
Thanks for the update Craig. I'll stay tuned for more info before making any decisions...


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## Sparky14 (Mar 5, 2008)

Hooray for my procrastination and laziness!


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

craigsub said:


> 2. This was changed at the factory, and Doug was not told about the change.


Can we still blame Seaton?



> 5. To the 200 guys who have a fixed subwoofer output, I am mulling over some options for you.


Do we have an idea on the difficulty/expense level of the retro fit? Is this something a skilled DIY guy (Bill for example) could perform?


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## userlander (Sep 21, 2008)

what is this $89-99 price? I only see $139.


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

userlander said:


> what is this $89-99 price? I only see $139.


This was for forum members who joined before 5-31-08 ... our "early adopters" member group. :huge:


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## Stereodude (Feb 6, 2010)

craigsub said:


> It was MY BAD, because I did not ask the question. :salute:


And you didn't think this little bit of information should be made known to the people buying Gizmo until after they bought it? :fryingpan:


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Stereodude said:


> And you didn't think this little bit of information should be made known to the people buying Gizmo until after they bought it? :fryingpan:


Seth, I found out less than 24 hours ago. I was honest about the problem. I am working on solutions.


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## Stereodude (Feb 6, 2010)

craigsub said:


> Seth, I found out less than 24 hours ago. I was honest about the problem. I am working on solutions.


Oh, your earlier post didn't say that you just found out about the problem (unless I missed it).

Should my Gizmo be flashing - - on the display once a second when turned off?


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Seth, I have an email into Doug about the flashing and also about the Standby vs. Mute question some others have asked.

Stay tuned, ok ?

And I am a bit disappointed. Do you REALLY think I would have shipped out a bunch of Gizmos KNOWING the subwoofer out was not variable, without telling people about it ?


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

craigsub said:


> Do you REALLY think


Come on Craig, you know Seth better than that. Did you forget why you were going to feed him to Texas?


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

m-fine said:


> Come on Craig, you know Seth better than that. Did you forget why you were going to feed him to Texas?


Texas has had a bad week - tore the Cruciate ligament in his right rear knee, and has to have surgery next Thursday.

We got him back from the Vet tonight, and have to keep him calm until the surgery next week, and for 8 to 10 weeks after. Yikes !!! :crazy:


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## dvenardos (Sep 27, 2008)

craigsub said:


> Here is the deal on Gizmo ...
> 2. This was changed at the factory, and Doug was not told about the change.


What kind of **** is that? "Oh, we had the spec but we don't need to be bothered with details".


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

dvenardos said:


> What kind of **** is that? "Oh, we had the spec but we don't need to be bothered with details".


It is the kind of information that makes an engineer (AKA Doug) and a company owner (AKA Craig) pretty peeved.

In another thread, Mark Schifter had posted about how Gizmo was SUPPOSED to work. The subwoofer out SHOULD be variable.


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## Stereodude (Feb 6, 2010)

craigsub said:


> And I am a bit disappointed. Do you REALLY think I would have shipped out a bunch of Gizmos KNOWING the subwoofer out was not variable, without telling people about it ?


No, I didn't think you would do that... But I also didn't think I would get an amp that reminds me of an unset VCR flashing 12:00 at me either. :raspberry:


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## Stereodude (Feb 6, 2010)

craigsub said:


> It is the kind of information that makes an engineer (AKA Doug) and a company owner (AKA Craig) pretty peeved.


Welcome to China! :dizzy:


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## cmabooty (Jul 30, 2008)

Very nice pics!


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## skullguise (Apr 17, 2008)

I'll be waiting for updates, and not worrying.

I'll likely use one of my two Gizmo's with bass up and without sub, likely with my ELT525's.

The other I'll use similarly until I either 1) get a DAC-MAN, and have the Gizmo act like a power amp, or 2) get the volume going on the Gizmo itself.

One possibility/suggestion, Craig, though not the best from a workload perspective. If you can retrofit the Gizmo's from the second 200 batch, offer an exchange for the originals to those who want it. Then, as you get the old ones back, retrofit THEM and sell at a $99 + shipping price.

Just a thought. For me, if there are simple enough instructions to wire up the volume control to the sub out, I can ask a more talented friend to help with mine.


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

skullguise said:


> I'll be waiting for updates, and not worrying.
> 
> I'll likely use one of my two Gizmo's with bass up and without sub, likely with my ELT525's.
> 
> ...


You are pretty good - your suggestion is excellent. 

Once I know for sure that we can retrofit the 200 coming in, I will post the options available to everyone who has a unit with the fixed subwoofer out.

If I find we cannot retrofit them, there will be a different announcement. 

I know ... DUH !!! :yes:


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## imported_m-fine (Mar 15, 2008)

craigsub said:


> Texas has had a bad week - tore the Cruciate ligament in his right rear knee, and has to have surgery next Thursday.
> 
> We got him back from the Vet tonight, and have to keep him calm until the surgery next week, and for 8 to 10 weeks after. Yikes !!! :crazy:


Had a Saint Bernard that did that. Had to carry all 180 lbs of her up and down stairs for about a month.

Then she tore out the other knee a year later and we got to do it again....


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## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

skullguise said:


> I'll be waiting for updates, and not worrying.
> 
> 
> One possibility/suggestion, Craig, though not the best from a workload perspective. If you can retrofit the Gizmo's from the second 200 batch, offer an exchange for the originals to those who want it. Then, as you get the old ones back, retrofit THEM and sell at a $99 + shipping price.


I am in to this idea or even a subsequent batch. I have a work around for now but I do like to swap gear around often so eventually will have need for the tracking sub volume. Thanks for the quick response, Craig.


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## woofersus (May 6, 2008)

This shouldn't be too big an issue for me since I'll be controlling the volume from elsewhere in my primary intended application, but I can see it being a big bummer for those using it for a desktop system connected to a cd player or something. I'm sure it will all get worked out. I'm even turning mine off at the power conditioner like the rest of the rack of gear, so I won't even be affected by the flashing display. 

The DAC-Man looks pretty cool. If the Gizmo purchasers' discount is big enough you might just twist my arm


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## mike c (Apr 25, 2006)

will wait for your update Craig


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Good morning all ... as mentioned earlier, I am waiting for confirmation that the 200 Gizmos on the ship can be retrofitted so the subwoofer output is tied into the main volume.

If it can be, then this info will apply to only the first 200. If not, then it will apply to all 400. 

DAC-MAN is going to be $179-$199 delivered. I will be talking to Doug today and should have a firm quote in the next few days. He has a fully operational prototype, and is very happy with it. 

Rest assured, he will make it VERY clear to Stephen that NOTHING gets changed.

ok .... the solution ... and for now, I am writing this assuming we CANNOT retrofit the secind 200. 

1. If you ordered a Gizmo and wish it had a variable subwoofer output, we will swap out your Gizmo for a "fresh unit" when the second batch of 400 comes in. No charge to you. 

2. OR - KEEP your Gizmo, and get a gift certificate for $50 towards a DAC-MAN.

3. OR - KEEP your Gizmo and get a gift certificate for $50 towards a pair of WAF-1's.

4. OR - KEEP your Gizmo and get a gift certificate for $50 towards a Scamp-10. 

I hope this is something that gives each and every one of you an option that fits YOUR personal needs. :burgerking:


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## snock (Jan 24, 2008)

i love it. bravo. thanks. :rock:


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## 1BionicEar (Apr 14, 2008)

That solution looks like win/win/win.


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## Matt34 (Oct 20, 2006)

Looks like a good plan! Makes my decision on dual scamps even easier.:biglaugh:


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

Matt34 said:


> Looks like a good plan! Makes my decision on dual scamps even easier.:biglaugh:


Are you sure we cannot interest you in FOUR ? :smoke1:


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## Matt34 (Oct 20, 2006)

craigsub said:


> Are you sure we cannot interest you in FOUR ? :smoke1:


I'm actually trying to downsize the number of speakers I have.:dizzy: Have a baby on the way and moving to a smaller house.


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## andychen (Mar 26, 2008)

craig,

I was gonna order a second amp then I saw this proposal. If I wait for the second batch, can I still get the second amp for $99?

BTW, I briefly compared Gizmo with my trends T amp using PSB B25 and found it to be slightly warmer. Gizmo has great detail, soundstage and dynamics. To me, being slightly warmer than trends is a good thing because I always think trends is a little bit cold for my taste. Truly a wonderful product!


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

andychen said:


> craig,
> 
> I was gonna order a second amp then I saw this proposal. If I wait for the second batch, can I still get the second amp for $99?
> 
> BTW, I briefly compared Gizmo with my trends T amp using PSB B25 and found it to be slightly warmer. Gizmo has great detail, soundstage and dynamics. To me, being slightly warmer than trends is a good thing because I always think trends is a little bit cold for my taste. Truly a wonderful product!


All 400 of what we are now calling Gizmo 1.0 will qualify for the $99 price AND a $50 credit towards a Scamp, WAF-1 or DAC-MAN.

Each amp purchase will get one $50 credit towards one of the three choices. For example, if you purchased 2 amps, and wanted 2 Scamps, you get a total of $100 in credit. 

This offer will last until the original 400 are gone. I believe we have appx. 60 of the original 200. 

Thanks for the great mini-review on the Gizmo, too. Gizmo making people happy is our first step at TCA. :huge:


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## Mike_WI (Feb 26, 2009)

*Display dimmer on v1.1 ?*



craigsub said:


> All 400 of what we are now calling Gizmo 1.0 will qualify for the $99 price AND a $50 credit towards a Scamp, WAF-1 or DAC-MAN.
> 
> Each amp purchase will get one $50 credit towards one of the three choices. For example, if you purchased 2 amps, and wanted 2 Scamps, you get a total of $100 in credit.
> 
> ...


Cool. I might pick up another one for work people.
I just bought some ELT525M's for someone yesterday.

Since this is under the bedroom category, another suggestion for the v1.1 or (other version) of Gizmo is a manual or auto dimmer. 
The display is pretty bright (even in a lit up office) so I imagine it would be very bright in a bedroom system at night. 
Don't know if that is possible, but just thought I'd throw it in!

Mike


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## tstarn08 (Feb 24, 2008)

Just ordered mine tonight (should have read this thread first, of course), and hoping that I can get the updated/retrofitted version rather than having to go through the return-and-retrofit process. Craig, is there any way to hold my order until the modifications are done, if they can be done? I choose option 1, you could say. And figured since I just ordered my Gizmo today, you could stall the order until this is resolved and it can be turned into Gizmo v2.

I don't have a sub for it yet, but want to add one with the PSB bookshelf speakers in my office. Thanks.


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## craigsub (Sep 9, 2006)

tstarn08 said:


> Just ordered mine tonight (should have read this thread first, of course), and hoping that I can get the updated/retrofitted version rather than having to go through the return-and-retrofit process. Craig, is there any way to hold my order until the modifications are done, if they can be done? I choose option 1, you could say. And figured since I just ordered my Gizmo today, you could stall the order until this is resolved and it can be turned into Gizmo v2.
> 
> I don't have a sub for it yet, but want to add one with the PSB bookshelf speakers in my office. Thanks.


You won't have to go through a return and retro-fit process - you get to trade the old one in for a 1.1 OR keep it and take a credit of $50 towards a variety of our other products. Think hitting the "EASY" button ... :thumbsup:


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## dgh (Mar 5, 2008)

:thumbsup::thumbsup: Once again, major focus on customer service.
Kudos, Craig :applause::applause:


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## cbc (Feb 19, 2008)

userlander said:


> that's good to know about the sub-out volume! I think I'll wait for the second batch. :yes:


Me too. Will the pricing for those who posted early on in the original thread still get the "promo" price? Having a master vol controlled sub level seems like a must have to me. I just assumed that was the case w/ the Gizmo.


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