# Why the variance in high frequencies between 2 different pairs of speakers



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

A friend of mine came over last night and we got into a little discussion about speakers... Here is what started it:
My friend has listened 2 my setup several times, and then went home, and listened to his Yamaha NS1000 Studio Monitors. He has found that when he listens to the same 2 songs on his system the songs are brighter...But both songs are equally brighter than mine. When he listens to my setup with the same 2 songs, one of the songs is much brighter than the other.

Question: Why is it that on his setup the 2 songs sound almost the same, but on mine the top end is significantly brighter on one of the songs but not the other (my setup also is not as bright as his setup sounds normally which i understand).

I was thinking that maybe because of my setup being with horns (112DB efficiency), that maybe it is due to the efficiency, and dynamics of the horns. I know that the differences in speakers, amps, and rooms will make the speakers sound different (as it should), but why don't the 2 songs sound significantly different on the top end on his setup when mine does?

Any ideas?


----------



## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

Same songs but same source as well?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> Same songs but same source as well?


Same songs... both played off of Youtube from the same file.


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Its possible that the one song is actually reaching into the higher frequency range and his speakers do not handle it as well? Im thinking above 18kHz
Looking at the frequency response of the Yamahas they are down 3db at 20kHz and already start falling at 15kHz That can be quite noticeable.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Its possible that the one song is actually reaching into the higher frequency range and his speakers do not handle it as well? Im thinking above 18kHz
> Looking at the frequency response of the Yamahas they are down 3db at 20kHz and already start falling at 15kHz That can be quite noticeable.


Good point. :T

The other thing is dynamics... Maybe my horns show up the high frequency differences more due to dynamics?


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Possible, even distortion could be playing a factor. The Yamahas may just be getting tired if they have been played loud alot.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

tonyvdb said:


> Possible, even distortion could be playing a factor. The Yamahas may just be getting tired if they have been played loud alot.


Have you ever listened to "Toni Childs" song Hush? This is a different song than the 2 previously tested ones, and the results are different than i have ever heard on any system. Toward the beginning of the song she keeps going up until she hits a crescendo... On every setup i have ever heard this song on it starts to distort at the upper end right before she hits the peak, where as on my setup it just levels off never distorting at all. :T


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Distortion is misleading as many people dont know what to listen to. Its very telling if you can do a comparison like you have done. 
I will have to give that a listen, Ive not heard it.


----------



## Insearchof (Oct 21, 2014)

tonyvdb said:


> Its possible that the one song is actually reaching into the higher frequency range and his speakers do not handle it as well? Im thinking above 18kHz
> Looking at the frequency response of the Yamahas they are down 3db at 20kHz and already start falling at 15kHz That can be quite noticeable.


This sounds quite plausible. 
Also, had another thought regarding the source. If his bandwidth is throttled is he losing quality? Dunno how youtube prioritizes video vs audio.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Insearchof said:


> This sounds quite plausible.
> Also, had another thought regarding the source. If his bandwidth is throttled is he losing quality? Dunno how youtube prioritizes video vs audio.


I would love to hear his speakers in my room, but it is just a lot of work to set up another pair with mine being bia-amped, plus my T chip amps would not drive his speakers very well.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Here is the song...





It starts about 1 minute in.


----------



## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

If either of you are using dynamic eq or dynamic volume or any other DSP sound enhancer that could greatly affect one song more than the other or it could normalize both songs to be the same.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

chashint said:


> If either of you are using dynamic eq or dynamic volume or any other DSP sound enhancer that could greatly affect one song more than the other or it could normalize both songs to be the same.


Neither one of us is using dynamic EQ or dynamic volume... I have my room tuned with Audyssey, but i listened in Direct, and Pure Direct mode. My Friend has an old Onkyo AVR, and uses no room EQ in an untreated room. 

I am also wondering if it might be a virtue of the Topping T chip amps I am using... Thinking maybe it is rounding off the extreme top that was distorting? Which might also explain one song having more top end, and the other not if they were at a slight different frequency??


----------



## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

This isn't an A-B comparison. Hard to draw any conclusions from subjective listening IMO. Same source, yes, but two completely different systems in completely different rooms. You would have to isolate each different element and re-listen to be able to narrow it down to something as specific as just the tweeters or amps. I suspect it is a combination of many things, possibly including internet connection as mentioned above. Remember, the total perceived distortion happens at your ear, not the speaker.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I had another one of my friends over and he listened to the 2 songs, and thinks that it is this..

The Yamaha is splashing the sound everywhere, and doesn't have the dynamics that my horns have... So the difference we are hearing on the 2 songs on my system is dynamics. My friend told me not to change anything on my system as it is just the way it needs to be now, and if i change anything i might loose the magic it has now.


----------



## Peter Loeser (Aug 11, 2012)

Dynamics are a function of amplifier capability, not just speaker sensitivity. With sufficient amplification, the other speakers should also have the dynamic range required by the music you are listening to. Unless you perfectly level matched the two systems before playback, there's no guarantee you were achieving the same average or maximum levels. Depending on how loud you were trying to go, your friend's Onkyo may not have the reserve to hit the peaks, even if his speakers are capable. This could certainly affect the sound.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Peter Loeser said:


> Dynamics are a function of amplifier capability, not just speaker sensitivity. With sufficient amplification, the other speakers should also have the dynamic range required by the music you are listening to. Unless you perfectly level matched the two systems before playback, there's no guarantee you were achieving the same average or maximum levels. Depending on how loud you were trying to go, your friend's Onkyo may not have the reserve to hit the peaks, even if his speakers are capable. This could certainly affect the sound.


I understand what you are saying Peter... My horns were only being driven with maybe 0.015625 wpch at the levels we were listening to (-20). His setup should easily be able to match that as it was about 92db on peaks.
I guess we will never know as it will be a pain to hook up his speakers in my HT as I would need to disconnect my biamp setup, and re run Audyssey to determine it. :T:T


----------



## fbov (Aug 28, 2008)

You could probably gain significant insight by comparing a spectrogram of the songs' frequency content and amplitude with system frequency response of the two listening spaces. I'd wager there's content being emphasized in one listening space but not the other, given that the speakers in question are about as different as one can imagine. 

Troels Graveson did an XO redesign of the NS1000, complete with before/after data and development documentation. He's documented the "phenomenal dispersion of the NS1000" showing +/- 3dB in the 10-15KHz range across a +/- 45 degree listening window. 

ellisr63,do you have any similar data for your speakers? I'll wager the dispersions results are very different...

Have fun,
Frank


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

fbov said:


> You could probably gain significant insight by comparing a spectrogram of the songs' frequency content and amplitude with system frequency response of the two listening spaces. I'd wager there's content being emphasized in one listening space but not the other, given that the speakers in question are about as different as one can imagine.
> 
> Troels Graveson did an XO redesign of the NS1000, complete with before/after data and development documentation. He's documented the "phenomenal dispersion of the NS1000" showing +/- 3dB in the 10-15KHz range across a +/- 45 degree listening window.
> 
> ...


Thanks Frank, The only data I have is the response for the EVDH1A drivers... Which are mounted to JBL Horns, so it won't mean much.


----------

