# Onkyo NR-609 Audyssey Setup.



## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

Hey Folks!

I've been having some issues with this Audyssey setup and I'm hoping someone here has had a similar issue who might be able to shed some light on it.

I've read quite a bit about this Audyssey room correction and automatic setup quite a bit, so I figured I'd give it a try and purchased a receiver that offers it. The setup and configuration is pretty straightforward, however the result I'm getting is terrible. It's very, very bright compared to using "Direct" mode without the room correction engaged, probably somewhere in the order of +6 db or so above 4 khz, and it's also exaggerated the bass to the point where it sounds like the old "smiley face" eq setting.

I've called and spoken with someone at Onkyo support, which didn't offer any help, or even any real understanding of the problem. The woman assured me that there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with the microphone because it was the microphone with the silver plug instead of the gold plated one, whatever that means or has to do with manufacturing defects, I'll never know, but there you have it.

So, my question is, has anyone had any issues with the Audyssey setup results anything like this? Any insight would be appreciated.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

The exaggerated bass might be due to Audyssey EQ-ing the main speakers to a relatively flat response but, because you have 2EQ, it does not EQ the subwoofer. Perhaps you might try turning down the gain on the sub a bit.


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> The exaggerated bass might be due to Audyssey EQ-ing the main speakers to a relatively flat response but, because you have 2EQ, it does not EQ the subwoofer. Perhaps you might try turning down the gain on the sub a bit.


Hey Kal! Thanks for the response, however I don't have a powered subwoofer, what I have are 2x T-TQWT subs that are hooked up L and R with my main speakers, so essentially, I've got main speakers that go down to about 22hz. They are quite efficient and normally when watching movies I have to turn the bass control down to -10 so that sounds like fires don't make the walls breathe. I've discovered a setting in the receiver today that allows me to turn down the "lfe" so hopefully the signal that passes to the main speakers is affected by this. I haven't tried it yet.

So really, having the main speakers essentially covering the whole band from 20-20 should be a dead simple room correction EQ curve, but for some reason when I engage "Stereo" mode (which lights up the Audyssey light) and pop in a cd, it sounds as though someone suddenly changed the L-PAD in my main speaker crossover to have a 2ohm resistor instead of the 8 ohm one it's supposed to have and the result is almost eye-squinting brightness along with overly "tubby" sounding bass.

I've got a new number to call at Onkyo, hopefully it's something simple like a defective mic with plastic covering the mic hole or some such nonsense.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I really think Kal has nailed it. Moreover, if you do not like the way Audyssey sounds, definitely turn it off.
Cheers,
JJ:unbelievable:


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> I really think Kal has nailed it.


 Well, I do appreciate an attempt to help, but I can't adjust the gain on something I don't have!



Jungle Jack said:


> Moreover, if you do not like the way Audyssey sounds, definitely turn it off.
> Cheers,
> JJ:unbelievable:


It's not so much that I don't like the way that it sounds, which is why I was hoping someone would say "yeah, it's always bright." I'm sure I'd love it if it corrected my room and flattened out the response, but it doesn't seem to have done that, instead it seems to think that the highs need to be exaggerated to the point where if I turned it up to THX reference level I'd be buying another set of B&G Neo3 PDRs, which I definitely don't want to do.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

DrDyna said:


> Well, I do appreciate an attempt to help, but I can't adjust the gain on something I don't have!


That is appreciated now but it was not apparent from your original post what your system configuration was or that it deviated from the standard 5.1/7.1 configuration.



> It's not so much that I don't like the way that it sounds, which is why I was hoping someone would say "yeah, it's always bright." I'm sure I'd love it if it corrected my room and flattened out the response, but it doesn't seem to have done that, instead it seems to think that the highs need to be exaggerated to the point where if I turned it up to THX reference level I'd be buying another set of B&G Neo3 PDRs, which I definitely don't want to do.


I am sorry to say that I believe your Onkyo with its limited 2EQ version of Audyssey is not up to the demands of your speakers or your expectations. 2EQ has a very minimal feature set.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

When you did the Audyssey measurements how many readings did you take and where did you have the mic placed when you did the measurements?


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> When you did the Audyssey measurements how many readings did you take and where did you have the mic placed when you did the measurements?


Ah, 2EQ. I guess I should have done more research before I chose the receiver, I guess 2EQ is the lesser of the Audyssey feature sets then eh, that might have something to do with it. I wonder how much more I'd have to spend to get the good one.

So, here goes, here's my setup. For the front main speakers, I have 2 main speakers on stands, which are a smaller sealed version of Paul Carmody's ZX Spectrum, crossed over at 80 hz with 2 TQWT passive subs in 0.5pi space. I'll post some links in another post, it won't let me until I have 5 posts, ahh! Essentially, I have large full range main speakers. Audyssey has no trouble detecting this, as it always chooses "full range" for my mains and "no subwoofer" I don't use the mono subwoofer outputs except for driving a single bridged amp and woofer that I've mounted under the couch for a little extra spin cycle, however I haven't connected that yet with the new setup. The center channel is fairly standard, it's 2 Eton 7-360s, a Hivi B4N and a Seas 25 TAF/G. The surround and surround back speakers are some smaller bookshelf Cerwin Vega (Not sure of the model) that I've got mounted on the walls about 6 feet up, surrounds aim at the couch from the side and back surround are above the rear of the couch.

When I run the Audyssey setup, there are 3 mic positions. The first one is "the listening position" which is the center spot on the couch. I've stuck the mic down on an old camera tripod and it's placed on the couch with the mic at ear level, which is about 1 inch higher than the couch back. The second position is the right edge of the couch and the third is the left edge of the couch. I'm very vigilant about making sure that the microphone is level and aimed properly at the ceiling, my tripod has a bubble level in it.

As far as the Audyssey setup, my main concern is the room correction, which was 50% of the reason I decided to purchase this particular HT Receiver. I had heard from several people that it worked well. I'm really not concerned with the speaker distance and crossover frequency settings that it offers - I can measure and place those manually.

My temporary solution was to change the l-pad resistor value in my mains to a 10 ohm resistor instead of 8, and I've got the treble control on the receiver down to -6. It's listenable, but it still seems a little tinny.

I really appreciate the help guys, if there's something that I'm doing that's obviously wrong, let me know! I'd like to get this right.


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

I hope I don't get banned for this, but I really need 5 posts before I can post links.


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

Here's the build thread that describes the subwoofers I use.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/188283-fiddling-hornresp-peerless-831759-a-3.html

And here's Paul's page that describes the main speakers.

https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/zx-spectrum


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

sounds like you did the Audyssey setup correctly, Without me mulling through all your posts on your links above are you certain that your crossover on your speakers to your subs is correct? This can cause all sorts of issues if not done correctly. It would also not hurt to do the Audyssey again. this time dont point the mic directly up but rather at a 45degree angle towards the front. Make sure that its absolutely quiet when you run the test and dont stand in the area around the mic.


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> sounds like you did the Audyssey setup correctly, Without me mulling through all your posts on your links above are you certain that your crossover on your speakers to your subs is correct? This can cause all sorts of issues if not done correctly. It would also not hurt to do the Audyssey again. this time dont point the mic directly up but rather at a 45degree angle towards the front. Make sure that its absolutely quiet when you run the test and dont stand in the area around the mic.


Hey!

Yeah, I'm reasonably sure that the sub crossover is set properly. I will try your suggestion today with the mic placement angle and see what the results are doing it that way, as I had considered the possibility that reflections or some kind of off-axis strangeness was going on.

The other question I had was, when it's measuring all 7 speakers, does it have individual EQ settings for all of them or does it try to set one EQ curve that affects all 7 speakers? If it sets EQ for all of them, perhaps it's making my main speakers brighter because the surround speakers are off. Maybe it's time to build better ones!

Has anyone tried running Arta with one of these mics? I understand that they're calibrated for the receiver, but I'm curious to see what it's hearing.


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> sounds like you did the Audyssey setup correctly, Without me mulling through all your posts on your links above are you certain that your crossover on your speakers to your subs is correct? This can cause all sorts of issues if not done correctly. It would also not hurt to do the Audyssey again. this time dont point the mic directly up but rather at a 45degree angle towards the front. Make sure that its absolutely quiet when you run the test and dont stand in the area around the mic.



You're a genius Tony! It's much warmer sounding now, and quite a bit less edgy. After returning the treble control to 0, it's quite pleasant now.

Does that mean that the microphone is defective, or is it just the furniture and wall reflections messing with it when it's straight at the ceiling?


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

DrDyna said:


> Yeah, I'm reasonably sure that the sub crossover is set properly. I will try your suggestion today with the mic placement angle and see what the results are doing it that way, as I had considered the possibility that reflections or some kind of off-axis strangeness was going on.


Make sure all the tweeters are at the same height as your ears. Otherwise, one or more will always be EQ-ed a bit off.



> The other question I had was, when it's measuring all 7 speakers, does it have individual EQ settings for all of them or does it try to set one EQ curve that affects all 7 speakers?


Individual EQ per speaker, of course. Have you not read the Audyssey Setup "Guide" on AVSforum?



> If it sets EQ for all of them, perhaps it's making my main speakers brighter because the surround speakers are off. Maybe it's time to build better ones!


Home built speakers are always suspect. :sarcastic:



> Has anyone tried running Arta with one of these mics? I understand that they're calibrated for the receiver, but I'm curious to see what it's hearing.


You need a mic with a calibration correction for effective use of ARTA (or any other measurement system) or the results will not be useful. The EQ for the Audyssey mics is not available separately (although it is possible to derive one if you have a reference mic.)


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

Kal Rubinson said:


> Make sure all the tweeters are at the same height as your ears. Otherwise, one or more will always be EQ-ed a bit off.
> 
> Individual EQ per speaker, of course. Have you not read the Audyssey Setup "Guide" on AVSforum?
> 
> ...


Thanks Kal. I was pretty sure that it was individual per speaker, however now that I realize I have the lesser sophisticated version of Audyssey, I was curious about what corners were cut and that wasn't one of them. As far as Arta, it's merely a curiosity.

And you are correct, I have not read the Audyssey setup guide on AVSforum. I will do that at once. Thank you for pointing it out.

It's listenable for the moment using Tony's suggestion about the microphone angle, but I'm still going to fiddle with it until it's absolutely perfect.

Thanks again guys!

So, Kal, what I've gathered from the AVSforum setup guide is that it seems to stress subwoofer placement / volume and crossover settings very much. Perhaps I'll toss an external amplifier on the subs using the mono subwoofer output and see how that pans out.


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

Ok, so hooking the subs up to an external amplifier seems to have helped in a multitude of ways, the most notable seems to be the temperature of the receiver has dropped about 10 degrees, lol. The main speakers are still being EQ'd a tad bright, but with the microphone angle tilted forward, it's not much of an issue.

Thank all of you for your help, it's very much appreciated, especially the Audyssey link for AVSforum (why I didn't find that before is a mystery) and the microphone angle change.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

DrDyna said:


> Holy sh*t, you're a genius Tony! It's much warmer sounding now, and quite a bit less edgy. After returning the treble control to 0, it's quite pleasant now.
> 
> Does that mean that the microphone is defective, or is it just the furniture and wall reflections messing with it when it's straight at the ceiling?


LOL, Its complicated but sometime reflection or absorption from the surrounding room and furniture can adversely affect the readings. 
Glad things sound better :T


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

DrDyna said:


> Thank all of you for your help, it's very much appreciated, especially the Audyssey link for AVSforum (why I didn't find that before is a mystery) and the microphone angle change.


Well, your original post stated "I've read quite a bit about this Audyssey room correction......" and I presumed (always a bad idea) that you had consulted this monstrous and informative source.


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## harry1236 (Feb 14, 2012)

I'm also having this same Audyssey setup problem. My system is also sounding very bright. I'll try the solution that Tony gave and lets see if it can correct my system problem. Currently I've turned off Audyssey but not the Dynamic EQ and quality of sound is somewhat accepting.

p.s: My front speaker is jamo 405, subwoofer is jamo c80, center and surround that came with onkyo htib 5300, receiver: onkyo 609

Thanks!


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## DrDyna (Jul 21, 2011)

harry1236 said:


> I'm also having this same Audyssey setup problem. My system is also sounding very bright. I'll try the solution that Tony gave and lets see if it can correct my system problem. Currently I've turned off Audyssey but not the Dynamic EQ and quality of sound is somewhat accepting.
> 
> p.s: My front speaker is jamo 405, subwoofer is jamo c80, center and surround that came with onkyo htib 5300, receiver: onkyo 609
> 
> Thanks!


I suppose I should have updated this thread when I managed to find the cure. The problem ended up being in the instructions, you're asked to place the microphone high enough so that it clears the back of the couch as a primary concern, tweeter level being secondary.

Once I ignored that and placed my microphone dead-on tweeter level, ignoring the couch back, it tamed significantly.

I've also measured it with rew and an EMM-6 calibrated microphone. Ignore the low end, I was fussing with subwoofer placement and I still have some work to do.

It's not looking too bad.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

harry1236 said:


> Currently I've turned off Audyssey but not the Dynamic EQ and quality of sound is somewhat accepting.


Glad you resolved the problem but, note that if you turn off Audyssey, you turn off DEQ as the latter cannot work without the former.


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