# Suggestions On Ways To Go For RTi12 Power Upgrade...



## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Okay. So in my HT, I have Polk's monster RTi12's as main front channels (with a slightly off-matched CSi30 center -- that's a discussion for another day) and I have been powering them with my trusty Onkyo 605. While certainly delivering enough power and dynamic crunch _for our needs and room_, I do fantasize about upgrading the muscle end of my system to get some serious juice to those 500-watt-max RTi's. Of course, my 605 doesn't have preamp outs to feed an amp (I toyed with the possibility of working around this by connecting "line level converters" to the 605 and all that, but it was deemed just too much work for no sonic improvement) so to add more muscle, I would have to either buy a new processor or AVR with preamp outs -- however, with so many different ways to do things and configure systems, I am confused as to which route may be the best one...

Let me break this down into different scenarios, so then you guys can give me some feedback and your opinions as to which direction may be best:

As I see it, I can:

*1. Buy a new (Onkyo) AVR with preamp outs (from the "700" series and up)

2. Buy an Onkyo surround processor (a lot more money going this way, I presume)

3. If going with the first route -- getting a new Onkyo AVR -- just hooking that up to all speakers, like I'm doing now with the 605, and enjoying the added power that may be perceived from moving up from the 605, and hopefully this will yield some additional juice to the RTi12's...

4. Getting the new Onkyo AVR, and then buying a 5-channel amp model (something like the Emotiva XPA-5) to power the entire system, bypassing the amps of the AVR altogether...

5. Getting the new Onkyo AVR, and then buying a 2-channel amp model (something like the Emotiva XPA-2) to power just the RTi12's, letting the AVR power the rest (center and surrounds)...

6. Getting the new Onkyo AVR, and then buying a 3-channel amp model (something like the Emotiva XPA-3) to power the whole front soundstage, including the RTi12's and CSi30 center, letting the AVR power just the surrounds...

7. Getting the new Onkyo AVR, and then buying two monoblock amps, one to power one RTi12, and the other to feed the second RTi12, letting the AVR power all the rest...*

What do you guys think -- or am I over analyzing this?


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Do you run a sub? 


My gut tells me that #5 is a worthy option... Your 12's would thrive with that stand alone juice. I'd also go find a CSi5 ;-))


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

The Emotiva UMC-200 is $599, the Emotiva XPA-3 is $599, and the XPA-200 is $419. +1 on finding a Polk CSi5.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

27dnast said:


> Do you run a sub?
> 
> 
> My gut tells me that #5 is a worthy option... Your 12's would thrive with that stand alone juice. I'd also go find a CSi5 ;-))


Todd,

Yes, I run a sub (per my signature) -- a Polk PSW350, with the RTi12's crossed over at 60Hz...

As for the amp recommendation, do you feel a two channel would be enough for the 12s, or should I go the monoblock route?

I understand that the CSi5 is the perfect match for my towers -- but when I bought the RTi12s, I was shopping the reverse way...I had the CSi30 from a previous system and wanted to match towers as closely as possible to it, and Polk recommended the RTi series as far as current speakers went as being the closest match right now (or the RTi-As, but we got a closeout deal on the 12s at Fry's). They assured me the CSi30 is a reasonable enough match to the 12's because this center came from a previous generation of RT speakers (I used to have it running with the R20 bookshelves)...


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

jackfish said:


> The Emotiva UMC-200 is $599, the Emotiva XPA-3 is $599, and the XPA-200 is $419. +1 on finding a Polk CSi5.


So which do you recommend I go with (in terms of an amp)? 

As for the CSi5, please see my comments above to Todd...thanks!


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## jackfish (Dec 27, 2006)

Per my previous post, UMC-200 for the preprocessor, the XPA-3 for the left, right and center channels and the XPA-200 for the surrounds.


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

Oh, I see -- didn't understand what you were suggesting...

Not sure if I want to go that "separate nutty" LOL -- plus, I'd get the Onkyo pre/pro I think if I were going that way...


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

Got it... My mobile app doesn't show signatures...

If Polk suggested it, and it presents a solid -seemless - sound stage, then I would agree that you should stick with it. Those CSi5's are now a model cycle removed and can be had for a steep discount. If you ever get the itch, or feel like you need to replace it, check the specs on polk's product site and see how the two compare. But if you feel it's a good match right now... Definitively run with it! 

I wish I could give you a definitive answer in terms of amplification for your 12's... I would gather that a powerful two channel amp should do the trick. Have you tapped into the forum on polk's website? Not to direct you away from the shack, but you find some 12 or A9 users there that would be able to tell you what they are doing --- there are probably loads of threads there about that very topic. I've gone there for Polk specific questions and gotten quick/reliable responses.... Must say, though, nothing compares to Home Theater Shack. ;-)


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## 8086 (Aug 4, 2009)

For your setup, I would consider an ADCOM amp like the 7605 (aka the poor mans krell) and a Budget Minded Marantz Pre-AMP. If you have the cash, then I would consider a lower end NAD or Anthem for Pre-Pro duties. Going for separate amps for your front that do not match the sonic signature and power from your AVR willl result in a non-uniform soundstage. 


Note, you can find these for much less than the MSRP
http://www.adcom-usa.com/home-theater-amplifiers
http://us.marantz.com/us/Products/Pages/ProductListing.aspx?CatId=AVSeparates
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/proc...rocessor-t-975-7-channel-power-amplifier.html


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## bambino (Feb 21, 2010)

If budget isn't a concern I'd upgrade my AVR or get a decent Pre Pro and do the Xpa 5 or if you stick with the AVR I think you'll enjoy the XPA 2 :bigsmile::T


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

27dnast said:


> Got it... My mobile app doesn't show signatures...


No worries; sorry for the delay in getting back to you -- we're having a lot of problems with our dog, who is very, very close to being put to sleep, unfortunately...



> If Polk suggested it, and it presents a solid -seemless - sound stage, then I would agree that you should stick with it. Those CSi5's are now a model cycle removed and can be had for a steep discount. If you ever get the itch, or feel like you need to replace it, check the specs on polk's product site and see how the two compare. But if you feel it's a good match right now... Definitively run with it!


Indeed; from my pespective, the CSi30 with the RTi12's offer a near-seamless stretch across the front stage -- there are times you can tell it's not perfect, especially during action sequences in which a car will screech across the stage from the center to either the left or right and it kind of sounds "off" in that the car takes on a bit of a different sonic signature...difficult to describe, but it's very subtle at the very least. However, Polk and others on the Club Polk boards (a forum you suggest in your reply below, and which I will get to because I had a _very_ negative experience there) never claimed it would be a perfect, 100-percent match anyway; the Polk technical support folks assured me that the CSi30 was compatible with RTi12's, but they're not the perfect mate for one another...the CSi30 was related to a much older "RT" series of speakers, so it kind of makes sense that their RTi12 towers would be somewhat compatible even if you break it down with your own logic. 

I realize the CSi5 is now a generation cycle removed, as there has been a newer center to mate up with the newer "RTi A" series, but a new center, to be honest, is really at the bottom of my upgrade totem pole right now -- I'd truly, for my money, would rather get a new 70"+ display, subwoofer or even AVR and amp combo...



> I wish I could give you a definitive answer in terms of amplification for your 12's... I would gather that a powerful two channel amp should do the trick. Have you tapped into the forum on polk's website? Not to direct you away from the shack, but you find some 12 or A9 users there that would be able to tell you what they are doing --- there are probably loads of threads there about that very topic. I've gone there for Polk specific questions and gotten quick/reliable responses.... Must say, though, nothing compares to Home Theater Shack. ;-)


Indeed, I had been a member of Club Polk over on their forums for some time -- but what I had found is that their membership roster is swarming with some overtly aggressive, bordering-on-downright-cruel "severe audiophile" types that like to flame and really come down hard on people; their moderation teams seem to almost condone this behavior, holding to the belief that (as it was actually quoted to me by one of their mods) there is a "special, unique ebb" amongst the members of that board that doesn't exist anywhere else online, and people must simply get comfortable with it...that should have been my first indication to leave, but nevertheless, there were more than a few people there that did inform me that not only is my Onkyo 605 more than sufficient to drive the RTi12's _in a home theater environment_ so long as they're crossed over somewhere around 60 or 80Hz so it takes the strain off this AVR, but also that the CSi30 will "work wonderfully" with the RTi12's. Of course, there are always people that feel nothing can be powered by anything, and they will always steer you towards ridiculous amounts of external amplification even for an HT setup -- anyway, thanks very much for your opinions and input with this thread...I appreciate it! :T


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

8086 said:


> For your setup, I would consider an ADCOM amp like the 7605 (aka the poor mans krell) and a Budget Minded Marantz Pre-AMP. If you have the cash, then I would consider a lower end NAD or Anthem for Pre-Pro duties.


Thanks.

First -- are these amps multi-channel, two-channel? Also -- I'd more than likely stick with Onkyo and their processor, though pricey, if I went that route...

I actually haven't heard anything good about NAD's home theater products, whether AVRs or processors -- nothing like their audio (2-channel) products, or so I have read/been told...



> Going for separate amps for your front that do not match the sonic signature and power from your AVR willl result in a non-uniform soundstage.


So are you saying a three-channel amp model for the front -- two mains and the center -- would make more sense than two monoblocks or a two-channel amp driving the RTi12's while the AVR takes care of the center (and surrounds)? 

Thanks for the links!


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## Osage_Winter (Apr 8, 2010)

bambino said:


> If budget isn't a concern I'd upgrade my AVR or get a decent Pre Pro and do the Xpa 5 or if you stick with the AVR I think you'll enjoy the XPA 2 :bigsmile::T


Thanks, as always, Bambino!

But would you say do a new AVR with preouts -- or a pre/pro instead? Of course, with a pre/pro, I would lose things like the radio tuner (which we sometimes use) and, it would be a ton of cash to spend on a piece of gear that could become obsolete by the time the next surround formats come out...:R :R :R

Thanks for your input on the Emotivas; my concern with a five-channel amp is that the power is being spread to all channels that don't really require all that current continuously, at least not like the RTi12's would -- in other words, to me, a receiver makes sense in that the surround channels of a system can easily be driven by the surround channel amps of a good AVR, letting a big muscle power amp drive the speakers in my setup that really need it...the RTi12's. Wouldn't a five-channel model kind of be...well...like "wasting" some channels? Not sure if I'm thinking about it in the right way...

So if I got a new AVR, you are saying the XPA-2 could be good just to drive the two RTi12's -- no worries regarding the center channel seeming "out of place" being powered by the AVR's amp?


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