# Any Velodyne DD18 owners on this community? (help needed with setting it up)



## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

I just came home very proud  with a new subwoofer, the DD18. 

The dealer/distributer of Velodyne here in Holland have a lot of experience in setting up DD-series and they offered me to do this for my new DD18 for a price of approx. $ 500. This is a lot of money and I want to give it a try first and see if I can do it myself.

Here is some general information about my setup:

- The DD18 will be placed at the same place that my old SvS stood. For various reasons I have no option to place it elsewhere so I will have to do it with that. (it s placed between my left front speaker and my center channel.

- My room is drastically acoustically threated with diffusers and a sombra-D ceiling that resulted in a good/perfect delay for 400Hz-20000Hz as you can see in the picture below.



- At the moment I m building three big basstraps that will take care of the delay in the 20Hz-400Hz area which, as you can see, has to be brought down further. 

- I m running a 5.1 setup with b&w 703s as front, 705s rear and HTM1 as center. My receiver is a Marantz AV8003/MM8003 pre/pro.

So I think this information is enough for now.

Now, I would like to know the basics to begin with. 

- I ve been told that the first thing is placement (which cannot be changed in my situation).
- Second I ve been told to factory reset all settings of the DD18 and work from there on. So first question is how to do this (I bought it second hand so it s still on the settings of the previous owner).
- Third thing is the distance. I measured it from my listening position to THE BACK of the DD18 as I was told that this is better then measuring from listening position to the FRONT (cone) of the DD18.
- Fourth thing I was told that I need to do is getting the fase right in order to blend it best with my main speakers. I was told to do this by playing a 80Hz tone on 75-80dB and play with the fase setting on the DD18 until the highest value is reported by my dB-meter which means my fronts and sub are best in fase.

After these things I think the actual EQ tuning begins but how to do this/begin with I really don t know......

So please feel free to give input on the four things I stated (are these correct) and how to move on from now (step-by-step).


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## obsi (Apr 19, 2009)

Congratulations on the DD-18, it's a most spectacular audio sub. As for paying for tuning, you're gonna be missing out on all the fun. , i'm still getting a kick out of playing around with it. We have the same positional predicament and location. I also use 5 B&W speakers so I guess we'll have comparable solutions. First thing to do is to grab your setup mic, put it on either the stand or a tripod, put it at ear level in your main listening position, plug the XLR cable between the mic and sub. Now connect the supplied video and stereo cables to the video and eq audio outs on the DD and run them to your reciever aux in. Then run an LFE line from your reciever to the DD LFE in. Turn on your tv, reciever, and DD. Now grab the remote and press 890 to reset the DD to factory default. You will now see the opening screen of the DD. Now to enter the setup menu, press 12345, a test tone sweep and corresponding graph will show. Adjust your reciever volume so the graph shows sweeps in the 76db level, then adjust the volume of the DD to match the same level. Press next then the setup page, begin by setting the crossover to your desired frequency and slope. Now play around with the phase then press test, which will bring you back to the graph. Keep playing with the phase until you get max output at the crossover frequency you have selected. Now you are in correct phase. Now for the fun part. On the graph page you will see sliders on the bottom, these are used to equalize. These sliders may be moved from 15hz to 120hz in any order and have functions of level control (+6/-13db), Q (1-20) lower number is a wider bandwidth, while higher number corresponds to a narrow one. Now play around with the settings until you achieve at least +/-3db in the sub's operating range. Trust me you'll be fiddling around much more than once, and you won't want to stop til you get to +/- 1db, it's addicting. OR you can just do it the easy way and forget anything I've mentioned by simply pressing 321 after you have reset the unit and adjusted level, crossover, slope, and phase. This would call the DD to do its automatic eq feature. I prefer the former though. Have fun! :T


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

thxz for your reply.

connecting all cables: check
factory reset 8-9-0: check

when running the first sweep with all defaults I can see that there are big problems in my room. I have a constant dip from 30-90Hz! So 15-30Hz and 90 and above are pretty stable. 
Correct me where I m wrong:
I set the subwoofer volume to 0 and set the volume of my receiver to the point where the highest dB is at approx 80dB (this is one of the little peaks in my 90Hz+ range). After this I put on my subwoofer and I had to turn DOWN the volume all the way to only 3! to get the same approx level (a +- 80dB peak that s shown at around 20Hz). This seems strange but this could be because a have such a bad room response?

So after this the goal is to play with the POLARITY first right? So after running some seeps when switching back and forward between + and - for polarity I found out that at the - setting the dip at the 80Hz area was a little 'better' (the dip was less even it is still a BIG dip) then at polarity +. So am I correct that the polarity is good to go now?

Next thing I was told is the PHASE. If I understood him well uncle Sam (a well know audiophile) states that you need to adjust the phase to where you get the best freq. response (so I assume this mean where the dips are better/less deep correct?).

But at this point I ran into 'problems'. The differences seem so small that it s too hard for me to pick a best phase. sure I can see some minor noticable differences between 0 and 120 degrees but between eg. 90 and 120 I can t detect a difference.
I ve also heard that there are other ways to do this by using a dB meter?

lot of questions!


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## obsi (Apr 19, 2009)

Can you post pics of your graph and setup pages? It's easier to figure out the problem if we see your settings. Also keep in mind that it's better to cut than to boost. Hopefully what you have is just a dip and not a null.


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

ok, first things first. i ve made a picture of my room. i have 11 possibilities for the placement of the dd18. the dd18 is placed at my listening position at the moment (seating in picture). i m going to place the mic on the 11 optional positions in my room and will post my results in this thread asap. than we can discuss about what s the best place to put the dd18. the dd18 is on defaults settings and crossover set to OFF. my receiver is on crossover 80hz.


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

http://img248.imageshack.us/g/28749729.jpg/

here are the results of the measurements of the 11 possible places. To me it looks that place 6 seems ok. But maybe I m wrong.


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

i just found out something: on all odds the new mic also was not working ok!! i just borrowed another one from a guy i know here in the neighbourhood and now all works fine. when running a sweep now i only have to set the main volume of my receiver on -18. so the other mic was reporting a wrong value. i m a little woried that i might damaged my front speakers: when i did the tests with the defect mic i had the volume of my reciever on max which is +18!! no wonder i thought the volume was way too high! i was right on this! hope i did not overfeed my front speakers (B&W 805s). 

i will redo all the tests on the 11 positions later this week


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

here are the results of the corrects measurements with the new mic.

Again the room with the 11 possible positions for the DD18:



And here s a foto album with 21 pictures:

http://img825.imageshack.us/g/58356570.jpg/

And here s the clarification of all the 21 pics (remember that eg. picture 7 IS NOT position 7!). You have to read the pictures in the album from left to right and top to bottom.

picture 1 = position 1 and polarization -
picture 2 = position 2 and polarization -
picture 3 = position 2 and polarization +
picture 4 = position 3 and polarization -
picture 5 = position 3 and polarization +
picture 6 = position 4 and polarization -
picture 7 = position 4 and polarization +
picture 8 = position 5 and polarization -
picture 9 = position 5 and polarization +
picture 10 = position 6 and polarization -
picture 11 = position 6 and polarization +
picture 12 = position 7 and polarization -
picture 13 = position 7 and polarization +
picture 14 = position 8 and polarization -
picture 15 = position 8 and polarization +
picture 16 = position 9 and polarization -
picture 17 = position 9 and polarization +
picture 18 = position 10 and polarization -
picture 19 = position 10 and polarization +
picture 20 = position 11 and polarization -
picture 21 = position 11 and polarization +

ps. I forgot to take a picture of position 1 on polarization + but I think we have enough info to go with 

Please vote for the best position :wave:


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

I own the DD18 for over a month now and I finally found the best position for the DD18 in my room. So the psubwoofer placement (most important thing) is done now. I m also finished with setting up the polarity and phase of the dd18, so that s step 2. Before I m going to begin with the EQ I have some final questions:

I have made 6 pictures you can see below with all foto's explained. I wondering what situation is best to pick. To me it seems like the 60Hz crossover is the best situation to begin with.

photo 1 = only fronts playing with crossover 60Hz


photo 2 = only fronts playing with crossover 80Hz


photo 3 = only fronts playing with crossover 100Hz


photo 4 = fronts+sub playing with crossover 60Hz


photo 5 = fronts+sub playing with crossover 80Hz


photo 6 = fronts+sub playing with crossover 100Hz


IF the 60 crossover is my best pick, what happens when I play 5.1 content with a 60Hz crossover; does the center and rears also have a 60Hz crossover then?

And in anticipation on the EQ: I ve heard a lot of people here in the Netherlands say that one must not boost, EVER. Only slightly cut max three sliders. When boosting and cutting to much one would lose dynamics and headroom too much. So is it better to have a housecurve then a ultraflat curve?


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## tesseract (Aug 9, 2010)

THX-UltraII said:


> And in anticipation on the EQ: I ve heard a lot of people here in the Netherlands say that one must not boost, EVER. Only slightly cut max three sliders. When boosting and cutting to much one would lose dynamics and headroom too much.


It is correct to avoid heavy handedness when setting EQ. Looks good, your room is well behaved. You can try flattening it out a bit around 40, 63 and 100hz, see what you get.



> So is it better to have a housecurve then a ultraflat curve?


A curve that matches the natural roll off of human hearing at frequency extremes may be helpful. It appears that you have this type of compensation going on in your room, even without EQ. How does it sound?


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

Opinions on the next graph are more than welcome! (polarity, phase and subsonic slope are already set up).


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

Hi Sander, that graph does not look too bad actually but you have doubled up on some filters which IMO less EQ is sometimes better as you can take away some of the dynamics from the bass, this is from my own experience with the 2 DD12's that I had, most importantly how does it sound to you as your ears are the best measuring tool and that is with testing with both movies and music?


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

thxz, it sounds good. What is 'double up filters'?


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

THX-UltraII said:


> thxz, it sounds good. What is 'double up filters'?


Then that is the main thing if it sounds good then leave alone, doubling up on filters means placing or layering the filters over each other, as there is more filters than just 4 so I presume you are placing the filters over each other?


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## THX-UltraII (Nov 19, 2008)

nop i placed all the filters i don t use to the right


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## recruit (May 9, 2009)

THX-UltraII said:


> nop i placed all the filters i don t use to the right


Aah OK sorry my bad, It is just that I have seen it done so many times I presumed, but incorrectly this time.

Then that response is very nice indeed :T


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## Neilsy (Dec 13, 2011)

I'm hoping this thread is still active for any viewers!
Perhaps after someone elses months of use you may be able to assist me. . . 

I have a DD18 purchased end of last year. A recent receiver upgrade from a 3yr old Onkyo TX-SR609 to a Cambridge Audio 650R and Cambridge 751BD brings me to a new world of having to re-tweak my DD18. And I have to say it's getting annoying. It could be a time thing but I was able to achieve a flatter EQ response in my room with my Onkyo receiver. Obvisoulsy bass management settings vary from the Onkyo to the Cambridge 650R. 

Previously I have done the 'put the sub where you sit and move the mic to potential sub position' tests and found the best spot for flattest response on default settings with best volume. 

However, audio options in the new AVR are very limited. For whatever reason I have the biggest 60hz dip in my room and now it's worse via the Cambridge AVR. Yay. This leaves my 8 bands of DD EQ with almost all but 2 bands pulled down near -13dB and 60hz (63hz to be exact) left up at +1dB. Whereas I used to be able to leave some other frequencies not pulled out with the Onkyo AVR. This means I've also had to increase the sub volume to achieve the same listening volume. After some playing this morning I think it still needs to go up!!

Movies are like 25 in volume and one of the music settings at mid 30's... It seems a bit high. Thoughts??


I have bass traps, mid traps, high mid traps, carpeted floor, large velour u-couch, sub off to the right of the right front speaker. Feel confident I have spent hours and hours playing with phase and polarity and everything else. 

I used to have a near ruler flat repsonse 15-80hz and if I added in the contours that the unit has default I had these perfect looking bumps. Now they are odd shaped, rickety and no matter what I have the biggest peak of 40hz you could dream of. I can't get rid of it.... maybe I should negative contour 40hz instead???


I'm very keen for some advanced knowledge here as I'm confident in my ability and one year's use of the product. But I'm frustrated I know this unit can sound better as all my live dvd's that involve drum kicks, etc are lifeless as 60hz pulls a no show....

Thanks in advance!


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