# Extremely new to REW



## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Hello guys. I do not want to get too technical just looking at how to find the best place to place my sub with just a sound card and spl meter.
I have never used REW before but for the first step I need a sound card. Is this the one to use?
http://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UCA...538&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=bringher+audio+card


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## dboff01 (Feb 16, 2010)

I use the equivalent UCA222 with REW and a Radioshack analog SPL meter and it works fine.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Once I have the sound card then I get the hdmi cable from the sound card and plug into the computer and get av cables to plug from card to spl meter and from meter to avr? This is just for sub placement fyi.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

You got it all right except for the last part. The meter only has one audio connection, a mic output that goes to the sound card input. The sound card’s outputs go to the receiver’s inputs. Here’s a picture diagram.










Regards, 
Wayne


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## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

I just used a calibrated UMIK-1 USB mic and a laptop w/ HDMI output.

Page w/ link to a guide/tutorial
http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...cards/72911-using-umik-1-rew-hdmi-output.html

You can get the mic from minidsp, or from here
http://cross-spectrum.com/measurement/calibrated_umik.html
I chose Cross Spectrum because of his calibration service.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

redsandvb said:


> I just used a calibrated UMIK-1 USB mic and a laptop w/ HDMI output.
> 
> Page w/ link to a guide/tutorial
> http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/spl-meters-mics-calibration-sound-cards/72911-using-umik-1-rew-hdmi-output.html
> ...


So I won't need any sound card if I'm using the minidsp mic?


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## EarlK (Jan 1, 2010)

asere said:


> So I won't need any sound card if I'm using the minidsp mic?


Correct, you won't need an *"external soundcard" *.

You will however still need to use your computers internal SC, to output REW's test signals to your AVR .

:sn:


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

EarlK said:


> Correct, you won't need an "external soundcard" .
> 
> You will however still need to use your computers internal SC, to output REW's test signals to your AVR .
> 
> :sn:


I need to see if my computer has a sound card.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

For the sub integration do I need the other items mentioned below? For starters I just want to see what the sub is doing alone.

Subwoofer integration with miniDSP 

In this application note, we show you how to use miniDSP to properly integrate a subwoofer into your system.

What's needed?

To integrate an existing pair of two-channel speakers, the miniDSP will act as the crossover between the main speakers and the subwoofer. You will need one of the following items of hardware:
•For a ready-to-go standalone solution, a miniDSP 2x4. Or for balanced inputs and outputs, the miniDSP Balanced 2x4.
•For a kit solution with choice of digital (coax or optical) or analog inputs, a miniDSP/DIGI Combo. Or for balanced inputs and outputs, the miniDSP/DIGI Balanced Combo.

You will also need:
•The miniDSP plugin 2 way Advanced 21.
•A measurement microphone, such as the UMIK-1, and the freeware Room EQ Wizard (REW) measurement program.


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## EarlK (Jan 1, 2010)

To accomplish ( what you've stated in your first post ) you only need to buy a UMIK-1 test mic .

With the mic on a stand at the listening location ( while using REW's PN Pink Noise signal & watching REW's RTA window ) you move the sub around the room to see which location gives the smoothest response .

:sn:


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

EarlK said:


> To accomplish ( what you've stated in your first post ) you only need to buy a UMIK-1 test mic .
> 
> With the mic on a stand at the listening location ( while using REW's PN Pink Noise signal & watching REW's RTA window ) you move the sub around the room to see which location gives the smoothest response .
> 
> :sn:


Makes me feel better thank you. This newbie here is getting nervous about understanding the use.
I have not received the minidsp but I am asking questions ahead of time to be more prepared and get ready to start using REW when minidsp arrives. I won the minidsp here at the Shack.
I will post graphs and hopefully you guys won't mind helping me interpret the meaning :dontknow:


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

About to download REW from here. There are two I can choose from. The REW v5.01 beta release for usb mic support or REW for windows which is the shacks current version.
I use windows and have a minidsp.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Ok pc recognized minidsp mic and went to eq page and please look at picture below.
I just want to see sub room response.
What do I select ?


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## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

I am not familiar with that screen, but I am also a REW beginner. Have you tried to go through the steps mentioned and pic'd here, http://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-hdmi-on-windows, to set things up properly?


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

redsandvb said:


> I am not familiar with that screen, but I am also a REW beginner. Have you tried to go through the steps mentioned and pic'd here, http://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-hdmi-on-windows


Thanks for the link. I forgot I needed to enter the serial number to calibrate the mic first.
One thing it asked for was to connect an hdmi cable from computer to avr.
My computer has no hdmi connection.


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## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

If no HDMI out on the computer you'll need an adapter that'll turn the computer's audio output, whatever it is, into the good 'ole RCA style.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

redsandvb said:


> If no HDMI out on the computer you'll need an adapter that'll turn the computer's audio output, whatever it is, into the good 'ole RCA style.


What kind of hdmi adapter?


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

asere said:


> Ok pc recognized minidsp mic and went to eq page and please look at picture below.
> I just want to see sub room response.
> What do I select ?


You have made a mesurement of your sub using REW at this stage?

If not follow below to make sure setting is ok.

Download the mic calibration file from Minidsp website, by entering the mics number. This file has your SPL calibration number (first line of file SENS FACTOR ......) in it so no SPL calibration is required. Place into a folder or somewhere you have quick access to. I have setup a folder called "REW" and everything gets saved in their.

If you have no HDMI you can use the Headphone Output > AMP or Receiver input.

Plug mic in first

Open REW and the program will say something like UMIK detected do you have a calibration file click yes and navigate to the mics calibration file and enter.

Do not take any notice of the soundcard calibration, USB mics have no way of calibrating the internal soundcard and they are accurate anyway.

In theory you are ready to measure. You want to measure approx 75db.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Phillips said:


> You have made a mesurement of your sub using REW at this stage?
> 
> If not follow below to make sure setting is ok.
> 
> ...


Which one is headphone output on avr? The one for headsets?

I am confused because the minidsp asks to connect an hdmi cable from the pc to avr in order to get multichannel output. If I get rca cables how will I change to get the signal to the various 5.1/7.1 outputs?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

To perhaps clarify some of the previous posts, if your computer has an HDMI output that you can send to the AVR, use it. If not, use the computer’s headphone output. That will require a 3.5mm to RCA adapter/splitter, like the one shown below. If you have to go that route, you won’t get 5.1, only 2.0.










Regards, 
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> To perhaps clarify some of the previous posts, if your computer has an HDMI output that you can send to the AVR, use it. If not, use the computer’s headphone output. That will require a 3.5mm to RCA adapter/splitter, like the one shown below. If you have to go that route, you won’t get 5.1, only 2.0.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank you for the picture. In the case of just 2.0 I can still check the subs room response right?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Correct. 

Regards, 
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Correct.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


thank you


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

I downloaded REW and downloaded what the minidsp site asks you to download which is Asio4all and entered the minidsp mic serial number and stored it. Plugged the mic to the computer but under Asio with REW open it asks to enable hdmi audio and select umik mic.
Now my issue is I do not have hdmi output on my computer so do just ignore that part and just connect an RCA adapter/splitter? 
Will using the RCA adapter mess things up since I am not following the instructions completely?


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## redsandvb (Dec 2, 2009)

Since your computer has no HDMI output and you're going to use an adapter (like the one above) I think you change the Driver setting in REW to Java instead of ASIO. Then config the Output and Input settings.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> To perhaps clarify some of the previous posts, if your computer has an HDMI output that you can send to the AVR, use it. If not, use the computer’s headphone output. That will require a 3.5mm to RCA adapter/splitter, like the one shown below. If you have to go that route, you won’t get 5.1, only 2.0.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Where on the receiver do I plug the red/white part of the cable? Also does the end need to be male connection instead in order to be able to connect to receiver?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

You would connect a standard pair of RCA cables to the adapter. Or you could get an adapter that already has male RCAs. Either way it would plug into an unused input on your receiver.

Regards,
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> You would connect a standard pair of RCA cables to the adapter. Or you could get an adapter that already has male RCAs. Either way it would plug into an unused input on your receiver.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne



I apologize for my ignorance. I see what you meant with the female connections. All I have to do is plug rca cables to it as you mentioned. 


I should just upgrade my pc altogether lol!


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

I just plugged in the rca and did REW. It asked that I click on generator button and check the speakers. Well i did the sub and could hear the sub. After that opened REW spl and was told to click on red button to start spl and increase avr volume to get 75db. The problem is no sound.
So then i proceeded with check the levels under measure tab and i could hear the sub and got LEVEL OK -29.4db then start measure and got this graph.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Graph 2. I have no idea what it means.
This is all sub.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Sorry here is graph 2. The other one had no pic and could not include one from mobile.
What does this mean?


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## realize1980 (Jun 5, 2014)

Same here


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## EarlK (Jan 1, 2010)

There's no need to post cell-phone pics of your computer monitor .

The author of the program ( JohnM ) conveniently included a button ( that looks like a camera ) that will take a pic of the active window/chart ( once clicked on ) .

Also, there's no need ( unless asked ) to post phase traces or mic calibration traces ( they are of little interest to the majority of on-lookers ) .

The point to using REW is to get the flattest response possible within your acoustic environment . That sometimes translates into moving speakers ( or subs ) and/or adding acoustic treatments ( though this is more typically done in HT specific rooms ) or adding equalizers to the system .

Some advice ; if you were previouly content with your system ( before winning this UMIK-1 mic ) then I would simply ignore all this new info ( as an un-timely opening of Pandora's Box ) . 


:sn:


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

EarlK said:


> There's no need to post cell-phone pics of your computer monitor .
> 
> The author of the program ( JohnM ) conveniently included a button ( that looks likes camera ) that will take a pic of the active window/chart ( once clicked on ) .
> 
> ...


As far as no need to post cell phone pics I understand but was unable to do it from HTS mobile app. 
As far as no need to post phase traces or mic calibration traces...Well I did not know what I was posting and do not know what that even means since I am new to all this.
Lastly my system sounds good and yes I know the goal is to look for the flattest response however, I might as well try to learn REW and taking measurements considering I won the Mic here.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

You’re sitting in front of a computer, but using the mobile app? Sorry, couldn’t resist! 

Your first graph shows two measurements – are they for the same subwoofer? And the vertical dotted lines on the right side – have no idea what that is.

The second graph is a phase plot. There’s a box at the bottom of the graph that will turn that off. As Earl noted, we don’t need it.

It might be good to upload your .mdat file for us. Can’t use your phone for that, it will require an internet connection to that computer. 

P.S. just a little good-natured teasing, hope your not offended!

Regards,
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> You’re sitting in front of a computer, but using the mobile app? Sorry, couldn’t resist!
> 
> Your first graph shows two measurements – are they for the same subwoofer? And the vertical dotted lines on the right side – have no idea what that is.
> 
> ...


Thank you Wayne. No I'm not offended. In the past I had trouble uploading pics here with computer so I thought of taking a pic with cell since mobile was easier to upload.
The measurement was for one sub. I will uncheck phase next time but based on my graph if I did it right that is the frequency is way off right?


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

When doing REW for sub only on the avr I see Audyssey engaged. Do I disengage Audyssey to run REW since the sub was previously calibrated by Audyssey?

Also does it matter what mode the avr display shows while doing REW? Example like Stero, etc.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Here are two graph? Meaning please.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Two more. I don't know what it means:huh:


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

It looks like your sub is pretty much “done” at 30 Hz, so giving us graphs that start at 30 Hz and go down from there don’t tell us much. 

Getting Graphs Ready to Post

Regards, 
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Thank you! How about this one?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

We could tell better with a sub graph that extended only to ~200 Hz (as prescribed in the "Preparing Graphs" post previously linked), but it looks like your sub doesn’t have extension below ~30 Hz. The ragged response between 30-80 Hz could probably be addressed with a parametric equalizer. Above that point, between 80 and 150 Hz it would be more relevant to see a graph with both mains and subs operating. That would tell us if the null between 100-120 Hz is really an issue or not.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> We could tell better with a sub graph that extended only to ~200 Hz (as prescribed in the "Preparing Graphs" post previously linked), but it looks like your sub doesn’t have extension below ~30 Hz. The ragged response between 30-80 Hz could probably be addressed with a parametric equalizer. Above that point, between 80 and 150 Hz it would be more relevant to see a graph with both mains and subs operating. That would tell us if the null between 100-120 Hz is really an issue or not.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> ...


Thank you! I will try to post graphs that extend only to 200Hz. At the same I have only taken sub measurements at one location till I get to know REW better and then I will move the sub around.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Here is a new graph after I set the graph to recommend sub limits on Rew.

Translation please


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Doesn’t look nearly as bad, does it! It would be easy enough to EQ down the peaks at 75 and 30 Hz a bit and get a really smooth graph. A slight boost at 25 Hz would extend the functional lower limits of the sub, as long as there’s enough headroom to accommodate a 5 dB boost. That wouldn’t be a good idea if the sub is ported, though – don’t recall if you ever told us what sub we’re dealing with.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Doesn’t look nearly as bad, does it! It would be easy enough to EQ down the peaks at 75 and 30 Hz a bit and get a really smooth graph. A slight boost at 25 Hz would extend the functional lower limits of the sub, as long as there’s enough headroom to accommodate a 5 dB boost. That wouldn’t be a good idea if the sub is ported, though – don’t recall if you ever told us what sub we’re dealing with.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Thank you Wayne. The sub is Kreisel dxd 12012. Sealed sub.
Also I don't know how it works or if it matters when I took the measurements AUDYSSEY was displayed.
Does it matter?


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

I was wondering when I used REW to measure the sub SPL measured around 70s and 80s. In order for me to test the subs spl capacity in my home do I need to just calibrate REW at a higher lever lets say 110 db vs the 70 or 80 db? I think you had to set REW to a certain db to get it ready to test.


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

For higher levels you just need to turn the level down on your mic.

Also it's always good to do a noise floor measurement just to see how much sound is coming from the sub under 20hz vs sound coming from the room.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Blacklightning said:


> For higher levels you just need to turn the level down on your mic.
> 
> Also it's always good to do a noise floor measurement just to see how much sound is coming from the sub under 20hz vs sound coming from the room.


In other words if I remember correctly I would calibrate the mic level with REW to read 75db and that gave me a reading of 70db to 85db on the test. If I lower the mic level to say 50db wont it read even lower than 70db on the test?


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

I'm using an UMIK-1 mic so I do not need to calibrate my mic level. I just run the measurement and the SPL's are correct to what every the Max reading is. So if the Max reading is 106db, I just lower the level in the mic and the Max reading goes up.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Blacklightning said:


> I'm using an UMIK-1 mic so I do not need to calibrate my mic level. I just run the measurement and the SPL's are correct to what every the Max reading is. So if the Max reading is 106db, I just lower the level in the mic and the Max reading goes up.


I also use the UMIK-1 mic and pre measuring I set the avr master volume to read 70db or so. When I measure my sub spl's are in the 70-85 db. 
When you mention lowering the level in the mic do you mean lower the avr volume pre measuring to read higher spl's?
Please forgive my ignorance!


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## Blacklightning (Nov 22, 2011)

Mic settings in Windows.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Ok I will try that. Thank you!


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## mattdub1 (Nov 23, 2014)

Hi I'm hoping someone can help me. I have scoured the support articles and followed the instructions to a T in the rew/laptop/hdmi guide. before I got my umik 1, I was able to run a test tone through my avr and through the speakers. I installed aso4all and updated to the latest version of rew. when I followed the instructions several times, I cannot output the pink noise test tone through my avr/speakers. what else could be wrong?


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

mattdub1 said:


> Hi I'm hoping someone can help me. I have scoured the support articles and followed the instructions to a T in the rew/laptop/hdmi guide. before I got my umik 1, I was able to run a test tone through my avr and through the speakers. I installed aso4all and updated to the latest version of rew. when I followed the instructions several times, I cannot output the pink noise test tone through my avr/speakers. what else could be wrong?


Most likely is that you haven't selected the correct output in REW. If you are using ASIO4All and the ASIO drivers selection in REW you need the device you are using to be active in ASIO4All, then you can select the output channel you are using in REW. You could also switch back to the Java drivers and try selecting the output device and output that way to make sure there is nothing wrong with the connections from your computer to your AVR.


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## mattdub1 (Nov 23, 2014)

John! Just the guy I need to talk to.... Iv come very far since I posted that last message. I can't figure out why the mic is clipping when running test tones above approx 75 db. I will try to post what iv done to troubleshoot so far (I also posted this in the simplified few setup thread on avs forums)


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## mattdub1 (Nov 23, 2014)

[quote name="mattdub1" post=32153177]I replicated your setup and got about 88-89 db for pink noise with avr mv set to -13. I also went to stereo with front l and r playing the sound during the sweep. clipped again. next, I tried changing the mic volume from 100 down to 50 in the recording devices setting. when I test the level before running the sweep, it says "level ok" and it's -13.8db when the mic volume is at 100. if I turn the mic volume down to only 50 and hit "check level" in the measurement screen, it tells me "level ok" and it changes to -20.6. when I change the mic volume to 25 and check the level, the input goes down to -26. so the mic volume setting does seem to change the reading. I also get the same spl measurement of 88db with pink noise on the spl meter when the mic volume is at 50 or 100, but then the spl reading goes up to 89db when the mic volume is at 25 or even at 1. <br />
<br />
Now, When I run the same sweep at the same 88db, I now have 3 db of headroom and it doesn't clip with the 50 mic volume setting. When I run the sweep again with the mic at 25 for the volume setting, I now can run the 88db sweep and have 8.8 db of headroom! This is sooo weird! Interestingly, the graphs don't seem to change much between the 100, 50 and 25 mic volume settings (attached). <br />
<br />
Any thoughts at this point? it seems the mic volume level being turned down significantly will allow the input to not clip as easily. Is this a "band-aid" for a bigger issue? I also checked and have no way to control the microphone gain. I am running windows 7 on a dell laptop that's about 5 years old. thanks everyone for your help so far!!!<br />
<br />
<b>EDIT:</b> I also tried setting the mic volume to 0 and now the spl meter reads only 74 db but my rat shack reads 87-88 still (avr mv still at -13). It looks like as long as I have the mic volume setting to at least 1, the spl meter remains accurate (agrees with the rat shack) at about 88-89 db when the avr mv is at -13. This is really weird.....[/quote]<br />
<br />
I now reinstalled the umik 1, rew, asio and set everything back up again according to the pdf instructions. same results. The only way I can measure at 88 db (-13 mv in avr) is if I turn the mic volume down in the windows recording devices control pane. I ran several sweeps (mic level at 5,10,15,20,25) and each time I increase the mic volume, I get less headroom when running the 88db sweep. The graphs are similar, but it seems the mic volume slightly affects the graphs by a db or two. I attached comparisons of mic volume 100 vs each of the volume settings I tried. Are these differences in the graphs enough to worry about where I should just set the volume to one of the lower levels (like 10 for example) and forget about all this?<br />
<br />
The main reason I got rew was to figure out best placement for my sub when I get it. I'm not sure how these mic volume settings will affect the subwoofer frequencies when I get my sub in a few weeks<br />
<br />
Thanks<br/>


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

How come when I download ASIO4 it downloads only the PDF for instructions but not the software? I followed the link below to install and I get only the PDF. It does not allow me to check Asio4all during the download. Does anyone have a different link they use? http://www.minidsp.com/applications/acoustic-measurements/umik-1-hdmi-on-windows


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Also in the event that I cannot get Asio4all going. Will I be able to use hdmi connection without asio4all? My current PC has no analog audio connections.I just want to test the sub again.


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

ASIO4All is available from its website, http://www.asio4all.com/

Room responses have peaks. If you pick a level using pink noise, say 88 dB per your comments, at some frequencies the level will be higher, at others lower. At the frequencies where the level is higher it may exceed the level the mic can measure without clipping. That can be helped by turning down the mic volume setting, which reduces the input levels. When the input level is reduced, the headroom, which is how much louder the loudest sound could get without clipping, increases.

88 dB is loud for measurement, it would be better for your ears and anyone nearby to measure closer to 75 dB.

You don't need ASIO4All to use your HDMI connection, but you may not be able to select individual pairs of channels with the Java drivers.


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## asere (Dec 7, 2011)

Thank you I finally got to use Asio4all. It downloaded the entire time I just forgot the settings to Asio4all was in REW. Also how does this graph look?


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## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

Looks pretty decent.


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