# SVS PB13-ultra need advise



## informel (Jun 21, 2011)

I helped my frend to buy a new system with help from the community here, but the base seems anemic to say the least. I tried movies like Transformer 3 and explosions are normally very impressives, but not on his system.

His room is 12 X 14 X 7.5

equipment
Onkyo TR-NX809
spk main Klipsch RF800B (exclusive to FS, apparently are the same as RF-82)
spk center Klipsch RC52 (I know RC-62 would have been a better match but the 52 was only 200$ vs 650$ for the 62)
skp surround Klipsch RB61
sub SBS PB13-Ultra.

First thing to note is that it was an open box and there was no calibration microphone, so I use mine (I have a TR-NX709)
Ran Audyssey (3 positions)

I listen to a song call Rack City from Tiga, this one has very deep base and I could feel it, so the sub goes low.
My problem is when I listen to movie with big explosions, I can here something, but it is missing that oumf.

Any idea


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

Do you have a SPL meter? Check speaker levels. Audyssey often sets the sub level too low.


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## informel (Jun 21, 2011)

phreak said:


> Do you have a SPL meter? Check speaker levels. Audyssey often sets the sub level too low.


I have 2 very old Radio schack meter, but they are so old (probably like 20 years) and they where never calibrated, so I am not sure I can trust them.

What are you suggesting,
simply sending test tone a note the measurements at different frequency to see if base is on par with higher frequency or 
run REW (nerver used it, but it could be a good learning experience


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## natescriven (Jan 12, 2011)

What did the auto calibration set his channel levels to? If the sub is turned too high, you could have problems with the 'auto' power setting not getting kicked on. Also, the sub might work better in another location.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

What I have seen several people do is run their subs "hot" which is what Phreak is talking about - many times, when Audessey does it's calibration, it tends to run subs lower. I think this is why people like XT32 so much - it does a better job of sub calibration.

Personally, I would trim the sub output up a bit and see what your results are.


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## informel (Jun 21, 2011)

ALMFamily said:


> What I have seen several people do is run their subs "hot" which is what Phreak is talking about - many times, when Audessey does it's calibration, it tends to run subs lower. I think this is why people like XT32 so much - it does a better job of sub calibration.
> 
> Personally, I would trim the sub output up a bit and see what your results are.


When running Audyssey, the setup at the beginning tells you to adjust the volume on the sub so the microphone will give you a reading of 75DB, (the PB13-Ultra volume goes from -100 DB to 0, I believe I was at -13DB).

Are you suggesting I lower the gain on the sub and rerun Audyssey?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

informel said:


> When running Audyssey, the setup at the beginning tells you to adjust the volume on the sub so the microphone will give you a reading of 75DB, (the PB13-Ultra volume goes from -100 DB to 0, I believe I was at -13DB).
> 
> Are you suggesting I lower the gain on the sub and rerun Audyssey?


No, actually, what I am suggesting is to finish running Audyssey just like you normally would. Once it is done, go into your speaker level calibration and increase the sub level.


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

informel said:


> When running Audyssey, the setup at the beginning tells you to adjust the volume on the sub so the microphone will give you a reading of 75DB, (the PB13-Ultra volume goes from -100 DB to 0, I believe I was at -13DB).
> 
> Are you suggesting I lower the gain on the sub and rerun Audyssey?


After you set the initial level at 75, Audyssey does a great job of cutting the peaks to even out your in-room response. Where Audyssey often comes up short is in automatically setting the gain for 75dB after calibration. Manually tweak this in the speaker level settings using a SPL meter. This is not running the sub hot, this is basic calibration. Running "hot" would be further increasing the level above 75dB. FWIW, I like about +4 / +6 dB. Personal preference.


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## natescriven (Jan 12, 2011)

informel said:


> (the PB13-Ultra volume goes from -100 DB to 0, I believe I was at -13DB).
> 
> Are you suggesting I lower the gain on the sub and rerun Audyssey?


The receiver has a limited amount of adjustment. If the sub is turned too low or high than the receiver can't adjust it far enough. So I would check the receiver's sub level setting. If it is something like -12 or +12 than I would adjust the level on the sub.


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## informel (Jun 21, 2011)

natescriven said:


> The receiver has a limited amount of adjustment. If the sub is turned too low or high than the receiver can't adjust it far enough. So I would check the receiver's sub level setting. If it is something like -12 or +12 than I would adjust the level on the sub.


I think I actually saw what you are saying, the sub level on my system is at -15DB (the minimum), so there is chance that the level of my sub is too high because the receiver cannot goes lower than -15DB, that may be why I find the base on my friend's system weak.

Even if my radio shack sound level meter is very old and probably badly calibrate, I can still use it to compare relative level between the two.

Thanks for info


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## informel (Jun 21, 2011)

natescriven said:


> What did the auto calibration set his channel levels to? If the sub is turned too high, you could have problems with the 'auto' power setting not getting kicked on. Also, the sub might work better in another location.


Checked the sub level and compared it to the main.|Saw that the sub level from the amp on my system was set to -15DB (minimum that Onkyo goes), so I check with my meter and it looks like my sub is at least 4 to 6 DB higher than main, so I setup the level on my friend's sub to read the same and it made a big difference.

There is still something that seems wrong, sometime it sound like the sub signal is just not there, as if the base had different signal for left and right, but I am using the SUB1 output which should be mono (he has an Onkyo 809 which has 2 sub out), Any ideas

Also his center channel speaker is a Klipsch RC52 and after running Audyssey, the receiver set the center channel at 150Hz, that seems pretty high to me


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## beyond 1000 (Aug 28, 2008)

When are you guys gonna learn that Audyssey is a waste of technological time. Set it yourself with a meter. If it sounds good then it's good! It's that simple. Listen with your ears, not with technology.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

The starting point is to set the subwoofer so it is not frequency limited by any filters.
Next is to set the gain on the sub so whatever auto calibration you use sets the subwoofer channel trim to ~0dB.
If you have a SPL meter you can set all speaker trim levels to 0dB and adjust the gain control on the sub to match the speakers.
Just make sure you leave the meter in the exact same place.

If the auto cal is setting the sub trim to -15 it is telling you the gain on the sub is set to high.


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