# New speakers, Really need some feedback



## iskra (Jan 30, 2012)

Hello fellas! I could really use some feedback about new speakers, any input is very welcome.

*Background:*
We've been running a theatre and music setup using Marantz SR6006 as both the brains and the brawns. Together with that, I've had a B&W speaker system, consisting of B&W DM685 (front), B&W HTM62 (center) and B&W M-1 (L+R Surround). I've been quite pleased, upon 'til just recently. We've just literally just finished the whole setup, with an Epson TW3200. 

When we sat down to really watch movies and listen to music, something didn't feel right. The sound just wasn't "present". I had never given much thought to exactly how the speakers were performing before, don't know why. Now, I it felt like they held back, abit murky and not really open to give you that feeling of presents. Sure, the bass was fine, the mid-range was okay, but not awesome and the higher freqencies just wasn't full of good.

Anyway, then we decided that we were going to change speakers, and maybe add a power amp later on.

*The (sought after, and dreaded) sound*
I've been interested in audio for quite a while and been listening to a few speakers. I've come to realise that I'm very sensetive to sharp-ish treble and overpowering tweeters, such as the sound characteristics of Dali. I do however like the openness of such speakers. 

I thought I liked the laid back warmth of B&W. I didn't, but didn't realise it at first. I guess I either thought the amplification wasn't good enough, or that I was just very picky. But after some research, I've heard countless of others saying the exact same thing about B&W - at first, it's a really intriguing, but after a while, you get bored with the lack of presents and the held back sound character. 

Just so I don't step on anyones toes, B&W produces great speakers, with really high quality, the sound just isn't for everyone I suppose.

*The dilemma*
So, how do I find a speaker that isn't too sharp, yet is open and "forward" towards the listener? I haven't figured this out yet, which is why I come to you seeking council. So far, besides listening to B&W and Dali, I, just today, went out and listened to the Klipsch RF82II and Monitor Audio RX8. Two radicly different speakers with very differend sound.

First off, the Monitor Audio is much closer to the warm, smooth feeling of the B&W, without any hints of sharpness (for my sensetive ears). Because yes, I do like some aspects of the B&W. It's still abit more open, but I fearing not enough. All the levels were great, the bass, midrange and higher frequncies. I could really define and tell instruments apart from eachother, which the DM685 really lacked. There were also great depth. Yet, as I said, they felt abit enclosed and not as open as I might like.

The Klipsch on the other hand, was _really _ "in your face". Very open and had a brightness and openess to it which I liked. I didn't find it sharp at all, which surprises me. Might have something to do with the Horn tweeter, but I'm not really sure. 

I am, however, very worried about it being too much "in your face". Maybe to for movies, then I want that sound style. Listening to music however, I think I run the risk of getting very tired after a while. I do NOT want that to happen.

*The music*
Seeing as I am in the belief that a speaker that perfom well with music is also good for movies (not necessarily the other way around). I think it might be usefull for you to know what kind of music I mainly listen to.

My taste in music varies from time to time, depending on state of mind, seasons and such. But, mainly, it is:
* Raggae/ragga (very deep bass, alot of very small details and background voices. Demanding music for a speaker I'd say)
* Hiphop (abit like the raggae/ragga, but most of the times abit less detailed, still qutie deep bass)
* Troubaour/come-all-ye-ish (most of which are very badly recorded due to low budgets from the ≈70's)
* Punk (quite fast, lots of instruments, often high, almost screaming, voices at times)
* Sing and song writers (soothing, indeed)

As you can see, there's quite alot of different elements right there. Most songs being quite political, which is the reason for the wide range of genres. Anyway, enought about that.

I'm sorry for the lenghty description. If you've made it this far, I'm gonna give you a sense of what my listening room is like with a few pictures.

The front (as it were before we sold all the speakers, with the projector screen down. Behind that there's an alcove for the bed:









Side view (BEFORE absorbents were put up, which we'll see in the next picture). The drape is made of thick furniture fabric with thin absorbing materials to dampen sound coming from outside.









The sweetspot. The absorbents are made of ≈4 inches (100mm) thick isolation materials, with a distance of ≈2 inches (50mm) to the wall. Unfortunetly my sweetspot lacks bass. There's nothing I can do about it, since I just can't move my furniture around. The couch is too big for this apartment.









Right, again, sorry for the long post. I hope you've made it this far. 

Got any input or suggestions on speakers, brands/marques? Or input on anytning else for that matter. Any feedback is, like I said, very welcome. Also, sorry for my sluggish english, I'm Swedish.

I bid you a good night (or day, where ever you might be)

Edit: No matter how detailed my description is, I can't really leave out the budget now can I? 
We don't really have a fixed budget. But around $1500-2200 is probably optimal (for L+R speakers that is).


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I'm a big fan of Polk Audio... I own speakers from their RTiA line (which is basically their second tier to the top of the line). It's know as a speaker line that is on the bright-side (not too bright, tho) and forward. I love the speakers. Real wood. Great sound. Everyone who has ever heard them in action has been impressed.

Polk's top of the line, LSi, just got a refresh and is now tagged as the LSiM. I know Polk owners had complained that the previous iteration of LSi speakers was a tad too laid-back. Apparently the LSiM series brings the best of both worlds. Anyhow... Polk is a stand-up company. Great customer service and their upper tier speakers give you great quality for the money. There are reviews from users on their website... they have a great forum on their website where you can converse with folks that own them.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

Have you considered acoustic treatments for your room? They can make a large difference in the sound of speakers and are less expensive than trading to different speakers. There is much information on our Home Audio Acoustics forum here at HTS. Anything that you do to improve the room acoustics will be also be beneficial to different speakers if you decide to change them.


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

Check out some Focal speakers > a good balance for music and movies.
Also, AC4L has some new Focal speakers >> and you can get the center 
channel with-in your budget.
http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=brand&id=FOCAL

And they are new, and not refurbish.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

You are on the right path in listening to speakers and making your own determination on the sound. There really are so many choices when it comes to this subject and opinions can vary widely. I personally live the sound if my Klipsch with both movies and music. Some may not but it's my opinion that counts just as it will be yours.


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## iskra (Jan 30, 2012)

27dnast said:


> I'm a big fan of Polk Audio... I own speakers from their RTiA line (which is basically their second tier to the top of the line). It's know as a speaker line that is on the bright-side (not too bright, tho) and forward. I love the speakers. Real wood. Great sound. Everyone who has ever heard them in action has been impressed.


Thanks a bunch, I'll check them out. Doesn't seem to be a reseller of them in Sweden though, but I might find some fomr Germany or the UK.



hjones4841 said:


> Have you considered acoustic treatments for your room? They can make a large difference in the sound of speakers and are less expensive than trading to different speakers. There is much information on our Home Audio Acoustics forum here at HTS. Anything that you do to improve the room acoustics will be also be beneficial to different speakers if you decide to change them.


Yeah, I've played around with it abit. I had some diffusers up behind the couch, but since I'm sitting too close to them, they didn't do anything for the sound. As for absorbents, as you can see in the pictures, I have 4 of them up on the wall. I don't think I can do more than that to be honest, since I rent this apartment and don't own it. If I'd own it, I'd change a bunch of things. 

Might try to put 2 up in the ceiling though, if I can make a nifty contraption to hold them up.



zieglj01 said:


> Check out some Focal speakers > a good balance for music and movies.
> Also, AC4L has some new Focal speakers >> and you can get the center
> channel with-in your budget.
> http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=brand&id=FOCAL


Focal has some very fine speakers. I've heard that they can be really bright, tone-wise, which makes me abit twitchy, since I can't really handle bright speakers (such as Dali and Elac). But, if I get a chance to listen to them, I most definitely will. Thanks for the advice, at a really fine budget aswell!


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

You really shouldn't sit within about 4 feet of a diffuser. Part of the issue might be your couch being right against the wall... that's a big reflection point right by your head.

I created a modified binary diffuser for my space (I sit about 3 feet from it...) in incorporates diffusion and absorption. It has done wonders to the sound. maybe you might want to consider the treatment route (or re-arranging your seating) first?


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## Andre (Feb 15, 2010)

I worry about the left speaker being so close to the wall. And imho I really think centres hate being in wallunits. For giggles (yes I know you can't leave them there) but move them out and to the right so that there is a couple of feet around each (put the centre on a stool or something (hopefully you have enough wire) and see how they sound.

As for other speakers if you like the forwardness of the Klip but are worried about getting tired of that type of sound have a look at a ribbon perhaps, Goldenear Supersat LCR as an example I wouldn't suggest some ML ESLs because of the closeness of the right side wall. 

You might like some Magnepan MMGW's and MMGC center. I have heard them in a small room with proper amplification (they are juice hogs) they simply disapear


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## zieglj01 (Jun 20, 2011)

iskra said:


> Focal has some very fine speakers. I've heard that they can be really bright, tone-wise, which makes me abit twitchy, since I can't really handle bright speakers (such as Dali and Elac). But, if I get a chance to listen to them, I most definitely will. Thanks for the advice, at a really fine budget aswell!


They are detailed sounding with good definition - people who are not use to
a more open sound, may tend to call something bright > The Focal dome is
one of the best tweeters that I have listened to. >> Also need to remember, 
that it depends on the source - and there are a lot of poor recordings around.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

zieglj01 said:


> They are detailed sounding with good definition - people who are not use to
> a more open sound, may tend to call something bright > The Focal dome is
> one of the best tweeters that I have listened to. >> Also need to remember,
> that it depends on the source - and there are a lot of poor recordings around.


Very good point on there being a lot of poor recordings out and the source material and it's effect. If only all digital music files could sound like the Blu-ray concerts in my collection.


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## Todd Anderson (Jul 24, 2009)

I agree... the center channel is probably best not buried in a cabinet. check out this solution.

Also, for the speaker so close to the wall, you have a curtain there. You could easily add rigid OC703 panels behind the curtain to help with the speaker's proximity to the wall. No doubt that would have some effect.

Not meaning to hijack your thread by talking about positioning and room! ;-)

I know you are looking for a different speaker!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

zieglj01 said:


> Check out some Focal speakers > a good balance for music and movies.
> Also, AC4L has some new Focal speakers >> and you can get the center
> channel with-in your budget.
> http://www.accessories4less.com/index.php?page=brand&id=FOCAL
> ...


Hello,
I could not agree more about Focal. Many of the ultra high end speaker companies use Focal's Inverted Dome Tweeters and they are in my top 3 favorite speaker brands. That is awesome AC4L carries them now. This honestly pretty much makes them a one stop shop. 

While things like "brightness" are somewhat subjective, Focal makes my absolute favorite tweeters. I would also seriously consider PSB Speakers as well. Paul Barton is an amazing Speaker Designer and his designs are quite neutral and measure spectacularly.
Cheers,
JJ


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## iskra (Jan 30, 2012)

Andre said:


> I worry about the left speaker being so close to the wall. And imho I really think centres hate being in wallunits. For giggles (yes I know you can't leave them there) but move them out and to the right so that there is a couple of feet around each (put the centre on a stool or something (hopefully you have enough wire) and see how they sound.


I think you guys misunderstand the picture. There is no wall beside that speaker, there's a dooropening (yet without a door), which is why the curtain is there.



JBrax said:


> Very good point on there being a lot of poor recordings out and the source material and it's effect. If only all digital music files could sound like the Blu-ray concerts in my collection.


Which is why at first I chose the B&W DM685, for it's forgiving nature and soft tweeter. After a while thoug, it gets really boring. And when you come to realise not all the music you listen to is badly recorded, it stings abit.



27dnast said:


> I agree... the center channel is probably best not buried in a cabinet. check out this solution.
> 
> Also, for the speaker so close to the wall, you have a curtain there. You could easily add rigid OC703 panels behind the curtain to help with the speaker's proximity to the wall. No doubt that would have some effect.
> 
> ...


Again, there's a dooropening behind the curtain (without a door). The curtain is actually made as abit of acoustic treatment. But I will check the center channel solution you posten, seems very useful, thank you!


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## iskra (Jan 30, 2012)

Oh, and my speakers are actually already sold. I know their sound had nothing to do with my listening room. I've heard them in serveral other places aswell, and sounded equally boring. I'm not saying they are sounding bad in any way, but for my ears - just boring.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

iskra said:


> Oh, and my speakers are actually already sold. I know their sound had nothing to do with my listening room. I've heard them in serveral other places aswell, and sounded equally boring. I'm not saying they are sounding bad in any way, but for my ears - just boring.


I can assure you the rf-82 ii's would never bore you with their sound. The only time I have ever been bothered by the brightness was with Adele live on Blu-ray. Other than that I've always enjoyed them with music.


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## showcattleguy (Jun 30, 2011)

Can you audition a pair of paradigm studio 60 towers? I believe would fall into your budget. If you are looking for a livelier sound with more "sparkle" maybe you could try and give them a shot. Not sure if they are available where u are but a quality well built speaker for sure.


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## iskra (Jan 30, 2012)

JBrax said:


> I can assure you the rf-82 ii's would never bore you with their sound. The only time I have ever been bothered by the brightness was with Adele live on Blu-ray. Other than that I've always enjoyed them with music.


Klipsch is a really fun speaker to listen to, I totally agree. 

My, highly subjective ears, wasn't able to define all the tones though. I felt it lacked abit of clarity between the instruments, it sort of blended into one, I did not like that. Also, I'm worried about getting tired after a while when listening, if the get too "in your face".

Please note that I do not think you're full of jibberish, it's just my opinion - we all know how much they can differ from person to person.



showcattleguy said:


> Can you audition a pair of paradigm studio 60 towers? I believe would fall into your budget. If you are looking for a livelier sound with more "sparkle" maybe you could try and give them a shot. Not sure if they are available where u are but a quality well built speaker for sure.


I cannot, which is a shame. Been reading some really nice stuff about them. Thanks a bunch though!

________

On a different note. I've narrowed my search down to five speakers.
* Klipsch RF82II
* Monitor Audio RX8
* JBL Studio 580
* Focal Chorus 816 V
* HECO Celan XT 701

Any thoughts?


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## derrickdj1 (May 21, 2012)

The Klipsch RF 62 or 82 system would work well for you and not to big for the room. 2 subs would help with the bass in the room. With proper setup the Klipsch speakers should not be fatigueing or bright. Check out the Klipsch forum for tip and purchase of used equipment to stretch your dollars.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I would also suggest taking a look at Paradigm speakers - I had a chance to listen to the Studio 100s and the impression I got was pretty much what you seem to be looking for - forward, powerful sound. Plus, the CC-690 (I think that is the model) is probably the biggest CC I have seen - it looks like one of the 100s turned horizontally.


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

I may have missed it but what is your budget for 5 speakers and a sub ?


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## iskra (Jan 30, 2012)

chashint said:


> I may have missed it but what is your budget for 5 speakers and a sub ?


$1500-2000 I think, for one fair of front speakers. I will start there and work my way up. I aleady know which speaker is going to be my surround. And I already have a subwoofer.


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## iskra (Jan 30, 2012)

Well, thought I owed you guys a report with all the help I got.

Again, these are only our (my wife and me) opinions. 

We listened to all the speakers on a Marantz SR7007 (we have a 6006 at home, closest we got) and mainlu two songs: 
* Melody Gardot - If the stars were mine (http://open.spotify.com/track/3nILBzvIDzJzaNeNyWLMlq)
* Svenska Akademien - Vakna (a swedish ragga/hiphop band) (http://open.spotify.com/track/12XniRcXlk8XlwtEugIE6D)

The latter of which resembles my taste in music, and the first more of hers. These were, if you didn't guess it already, listened to through Spotify which is our main source of music at home.

So, let's get down to it.

We listened to a crapload of speakers at different price ranges:
* HECO Celan XT701
* System Audio Aura 50
* JBL Studio 190
* JBL Sutdio 580
* JBL Studio 590
* Wharfedale EVO-50
* KEF Q700
* Acoustic Energy Radiance 3
* Dynaudio Excite X32
* ELAC 182

*HECO Celan XT701*
Now I had high hopes for this one. I have to say though, I got disappointed. Not because they were bad in any way, but they just didn't pop compared to the other speakers, and we felt like they were abit bland. No real strengths but _maybe_ abit enclosed.

*System Audio Aura 50*
No. Just no, for us. The upper frequencies felt like needles in our ears and my wife got a headache after just a little while.

*JBL Studio 190*
Way below our initial budget, but they were worth a listen. I was actually abit surprised - although it ofcourse lacked the detail that the more expensive speakers had, it still sounded pretty decent! They had a soft-ish, quite pleasant sound with a tight bass. Good mid-range and tweeter when considering stereo perspective. For the price, one of the better I've heard, but no match for the more expensive contenders.

*JBL Sudio 580*
Hornloaded tweeter, two quite big woofers and a coffin-like look. I was prepared to be hit with the "forwardness" and in your face that Klipsch has. None of that. It was very open but still not in your face all the time. GREAT bass, but might have lacked some in the mid-range. But it was as they say about the speaker, it almost felt like being at a live concert. Cool. But as I said, maybe some lack in the mid-range detailing. 

*JBL Studio 590*
Had everything that 580, although alot more bass. Alot. And they are huge, like, REALLY huge. If you buy these, you seriously have a coffin for your funeral. We have a saying in Sweden - "Greaser bass". Hard to translate, but it was more emphasis on the bass than on anything else really. Great party speaker, but maybe not for fine listening a calm saturday evening.

*Wharfedale EVO-50*
This one was the least impressive. Felt really enclosed and uptight. Boring mid-range but nice bass and okay tweeter. 

*KEF Q700*
Quite innovative with their UniQ tweeter/mid-range. And this one really hit the spot, well, as close as we could get that day. Very open, clean, crisp sound with good bass (it really only has one woofer, the other two are slaves instead of a bassreflex port. Had almost a dreamy feeling, especially with the Melody Gardot song. However, it played with a more "crisp" sound rather than a rich, heavy feel. That is ofcourse just a matter of preferences. Our previous B&W-speakers were very bassheavy and rich sound. It did however balanced just at the edge of being too sharp in the higher frequencys.

*Acoustic Energy Radiance 3*
One of two our of budget speakers. But , it was great. It did however LOOK aweful. I'm gonna quote my wife - "They look like a little english gentleman, who had become The Terminator". 
Great detail, rich, deep bass but still with an openess to it. Very fine speaker indeed, although abit over budget (but we could probably stretch it).

*Dynaudio Excite X32*
Such small speakers. But let me tell you, they didn't sound anything but big. It was abit coloured - a slight warm soundstage with a welcoming cozy feeling. The only thing I can say is that it _might_ get abit boring after you've had it for a while.

*ELAC 182*
Way to sharp. No.

So there we have it. We've pondered and pondered over which speaker to go for. At first, we felt like the JBL 580 was the way to go, but relative lack of detail bothered me. Then, we were going to get the Dynaudio Excite second hand. But. But then I came a cross a KEF Q700 that had only been demoed at a local home theatre butique with about 30% off the price. There were never any hesitation. We went for the Q700 and are now waiting to get it delivered home.

I'm really happy with our choice concidering our budget.

There you have it, my 2, maybe 3, cents!


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That is a fantastic writeup. Personally, I would choose the Dynaudio of the speakers listed. As I am guessing you are in Europe, I would also try to check out Focal and Triangle. However, Dynaudio makes excellent speakers and think they make some of the finest Tweeters out there. I could not agree more about Wharfedale in comparison to the others.
Cheers,
JJ


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## chashint (Jan 12, 2011)

Good move to only listen with two very different songs, allows you to listen for specifics over and over.
Nice little write up for each speaker.
The only ones on your list that I have heard are the KEF, I liked them.


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## Dugar (Sep 24, 2011)

I have the Kef Q900 for fronts and Q300 rears. Center channel is the Kef Q600c. It took a week of letting the speaker just play to break them in. They are powered by a Onkyo 708. I have Auralex bass traps, and made some absorption panels meant to tame mid and high frequencies. 
I listen to the new B&W and was able to do a side by side and the KEF's were much better.
I also have some B&W 602 that are very good sounding but the KEF's are better.


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