# Adjust gain from sub, or AVR?



## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

I want to increase my subs (2) impact just a bit more. Would I increase the gain on the sub, or the decibel level in the AVR? Or do they both basically do the same thing? I want my end result to be more chest thump, rather than louder LFE.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

AVR is the typical place to do this. It gives a repeatable result, and unless you’re using an spl meter, there’s no real point of reference. 
Can’t remember your AVR, but it’s common practice to bump the trim by 2-6db. Some subs may not handle this so be cautious.


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

willis7469 said:


> AVR is the typical place to do this. It gives a repeatable result, and unless you’re using an spl meter, there’s no real point of reference.
> Can’t remember your AVR, but it’s common practice to bump the trim by 2-6db. Some subs may not handle this so be cautious.


I've got the Yamaha RX-A2A. Also the Radio Shack analog meter. I always set everything to 75db at 0db main volume, but then I'll tweak the surrounds so nothing really stays at reference level. Also what is meant by "trim"? On the AVR there's a separate setting specifically to lower the trim rather than the overall db level, but I haven't noticed any difference in sound. When I watch youtube tv the audio is terrible, especially the bass, so I tried lowering it all the way down to -6db and it made no difference. Everything else sounds great. Plex, regular youtube, Fox Sports app, etc. Only youtube tv sounds like ****.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

It’s probably easiest to adjust the sub via the AVR’s sub output level (aka trim). Easier than trying to access the sub controls (assuming they’re on the back side). In addition, (as @willis7469 indicated) the AVR’s adjustment should give reasonably accurate dB changes, as indicated by the numbers shown on the display.

Regards,
Wayne


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> It’s probably easiest to adjust the sub via the AVR’s sub output level (aka trim). Easier than trying to access the sub controls (assuming they’re on the back side). In addition, (as @willis7469 indicated) the AVR’s adjustment should give reasonably accurate dB changes, as indicated by the numbers shown on the display.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


OK, thanks Wayne. I was confused because, as I said, there's a separate control under YPAO settings, which are completely different from the regular menu settings, specifically for "trim" adjustments. Yeah, the controls are on the back of the subs, all the way down, so it's a stretch for me to reach them. Plus, the knobs don't click, so you can't tell how much you're turning them. So basically using the gain on the sub or the db levels on the AVR results in the same "sound", they only control volume. Thanks again everybody.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Yeah, Yamaha drives me nuts with their language and settings sometimes lol. There should be a separate speaker level setting separate from ypao. Just raise it to taste. Usually 3-6 works good. Again, use caution. Not all subs are created equally.


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

willis7469 said:


> Yeah, Yamaha drives me nuts with their language and settings sometimes lol. There should be a separate speaker level setting separate from ypao. Just raise it to taste. Usually 3-6 works good. Again, use caution. Not all subs are created equally.


Yeah, there is, it's in the regular "Settings" menu. Like I said, YPAO set the subs to -10db which I'd never gotten before. I just now raised them to -8.5db I'll see how that sounds with the movie I'm watching tonight. By 3-6 you mean -3db to -6db right?


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## Wardog555 (11 mo ago)

I also get confused by when people use the word "trim".

Ironically I have my subwoofer at +2dB so I'd start at 0 and having the knob on the subwoofer itself at 1/2.

Try a Manual calibration without ypao and see how it is. I do think they are essentially the same as volume adjustments.


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

Wardog555 said:


> I also get confused by when people use the word "trim".
> 
> Ironically I have my subwoofer at +2dB so I'd start at 0 and having the knob on the subwoofer itself at 1/2.
> 
> Try a Manual calibration without ypao and see how it is. I do think they are essentially the same as volume adjustments.


Your last sentence is all I needed to know. Thanks. Yeah, I started at 1/2, or 12 o'clock position. I made some tweaks and messed up the balance, tonight's movie only sounded ok, so I set everything back to where it was and I'll do a sound check tomorrow. Glad to know I'm not the only one that got confused by "trim".


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## los153 (Nov 5, 2006)

A little off the topic of adjusting only volume, but still on the topic of "adding impact"... I added an equalizer between the sub out on my AVR and the inputs on my subs (dual low-profile 10" powered subs). I first turned off all correction on the AVR and tweaked the sub-EQ that way, adding effectively a low-frequency shelf, and managed to extend the low corner of the subs another 10 Hz or so. Then I ran the auto EQ on my AVR to "polish it all off". You need good headroom on your sub power to handle the boost, and watch levels to keep them within reasonable limits, but it works great!


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

los153 said:


> A little off the topic of adjusting only volume, but still on the topic of "adding impact"... I added an equalizer between the sub out on my AVR and the inputs on my subs (dual low-profile 10" powered subs). I first turned off all correction on the AVR and tweaked the sub-EQ that way, adding effectively a low-frequency shelf, and managed to extend the low corner of the subs another 10 Hz or so. Then I ran the auto EQ on my AVR to "polish it all off". You need good headroom on your sub power to handle the boost, and watch levels to keep them within reasonable limits, but it works great!


Thanks for the tip! Just out of curiosity, do you have EQ on your AVR? I do, and tweaked the subs EQ that way.


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## los153 (Nov 5, 2006)

DukeSweden said:


> Thanks for the tip! Just out of curiosity, do you have EQ on your AVR? I do, and tweaked the subs EQ that way.


Sure thing! I think my AVR is of a less-fancy variety (H/K 1710) so probably minimal EQ, if any.


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

los153 said:


> Sure thing! I think my AVR is of a less-fancy variety (H/K 1710) so probably minimal EQ, if any.


Mine's a Yamaha RX-A2A. The EQ for the sub is only for the 2 lowest frequencies. I don't know what the deal is with my room (which is really weird) but I lowered the two EQ's down to the lowest setting and now that one frequency that booms is gone. It wasn't the lowest frequency so it was a bitch to isolate.


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## shene (Aug 3, 2014)

los153 said:


> A little off the topic of adjusting only volume, but still on the topic of "adding impact"... I added an equalizer between the sub out on my AVR and the inputs on my subs (dual low-profile 10" powered subs). I first turned off all correction on the AVR and tweaked the sub-EQ that way, adding effectively a low-frequency shelf, and managed to extend the low corner of the subs another 10 Hz or so. Then I ran the auto EQ on my AVR to "polish it all off". You need good headroom on your sub power to handle the boost, and watch levels to keep them within reasonable limits, but it works great!


 What frequency range did you boost ?? As I understand it the chest thump impact is in the 50 to 100 cps realm, not real low frequency.


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

shene said:


> What frequency range did you boost ?? As I understand it the chest thump impact is in the 50 to 100 cps realm, not real low frequency.


I have no idea, Shene. I do everything by "feel".


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

los153 said:


> A little off the topic of adjusting only volume, but still on the topic of "adding impact"... *I added an equalizer* between the sub out on my AVR and the inputs on my subs
> 
> ...and tweaked the sub-EQ that way, *adding effectively a low-frequency shelf*, and managed to *extend the low corner of the subs another 10 Hz or so.*


The equalizer should indicate the numeric frequencies that you made for these adjustments. This is what @shene is asking about.

Regards,
Wayne


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The equalizer should indicate the numeric frequencies that you made for these adjustments. This is what @shene is asking about.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


63Hz and 160Hz down to -8 and -7 db. Hope that makes sense.


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## los153 (Nov 5, 2006)

shene said:


> What frequency range did you boost ?? As I understand it the chest thump impact is in the 50 to 100 cps realm, not real low frequency.


My particular combination of dual low-profile subs in my room saw improvement by boosting below roughly 40 Hz and then again below 20 Hz. I could be more exact but it almost surely would not translate exactly to your setup and room. I do agree with the "chest thump" impact being around where you say, with the lowest octaves being more for rumble (and for music - the lowest bass notes - my favorite music example for this is "Crazy" by Seal, after the interlude).

My external EQ is a Behringer DEQ2496. I used bandpass boosting, using onlinetonegenerator.com with a repeating downward log sweep from about 500 Hz down to 10 Hz, while tweaking the center, bandwidth, and gain of the boosts, aiming for the flattest downward extension to as low as possible. Doing this I was able to add about an octave and a half to the low end that way (now bottoms out just under 20 Hz - very satisfying). If I recall correctly, I also kept a highpass to protect the subs from out-of-control boosting below 10 Hz. Were I to do it again, I would probably opt for a shelving boost (or two), rather than the bandpass boosts, because I believe that smoother results may be easier to obtain due to the fewer parameters needed to adjust. 

Using an external EQ has both benefits and perils - you can have more control over where you stage your gains to avoid clipping too soon in the signal chain, but with that control comes more places to keep track of those levels.


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

los153 said:


> ...with that control comes more places to keep track of those levels.


Didn't Aunt May say that to Peter? ;-)
Oh man, you guys are confusing me now. Bandpass boosting, downward log sweeps, gain of the boosts...it's all foreign to me. All I know is the equalizer in my RX-A2A only allows me to tweak 63Hz and 160Hz on the sub, the rest of the bands are grayed out. Anyway I was watching Black Adam tonight (DD+ audio but ok for now) and I knocked a few things off the shelf without any boominess. So I'm good ;-)


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## los153 (Nov 5, 2006)

DukeSweden said:


> Didn't Aunt May say that to Peter? ;-)
> Oh man, you guys are confusing me now. Bandpass boosting, downward log sweeps, gain of the boosts...it's all foreign to me. ...


No worries. I was concerned about hijacking your thread too much, with all the added complexity that outboard equipment brings. Anyway, so glad that you got it sorted, and (since you mentioned it), hoping your health improves. (At least well enough to chase wires under subs, if not more!)


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

los153 said:


> No worries. I was concerned about hijacking your thread too much, with all the added complexity that outboard equipment brings. Anyway, so glad that you got it sorted, and (since you mentioned it), hoping your health improves. (At least well enough to chase wires under subs, if not more!)


Thanks for the kind words but my condition will only deteriorate. I have Peripheral Neuropathy, which causes nerve damage, it's incredibly painful and getting worse. I was planning on adding an Emotiva basX A7 to my system, but I don't have enough pre-outs and would have to hook up my speaker wires to it using speaker level to line level adapters, then plugging the speakers into the Emotiva, and just the thought of that gives me the willies. I know I can't hold that position long enough to get everything wired. So I'll settle for what I've got. Anyway, thanks again.


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## andrewrowens (26 d ago)

This is how I normally adjust my subs and found it works best for my room and equipment. I use an SPL meter to set my speakers at reference and make adjustments within the receiver. When I adjust my subs however I lower the settings to -15 in the receiver. I will then adjust the gain/volume knob on the sub to match the speakers. (I approach the gain/volume on the subwoofer as a water faucet. I want to free up the amp and not restrict it.) If I am still not getting the punch or low end I am desiring then I will go back into my receiver and adjust the subwoofer level. As I mentioned previously, this setup has worked the best for my room and equipment. I have also used this technique on my friend's setup and it has changed how his system sounded.


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## DukeSweden (3 mo ago)

andrewrowens said:


> This is how I normally adjust my subs and found it works best for my room and equipment. I use an SPL meter to set my speakers at reference and make adjustments within the receiver. When I adjust my subs however I lower the settings to -15 in the receiver. I will then adjust the gain/volume knob on the sub to match the speakers. (I approach the gain/volume on the subwoofer as a water faucet. I want to free up the amp and not restrict it.) If I am still not getting the punch or low end I am desiring then I will go back into my receiver and adjust the subwoofer level. As I mentioned previously, this setup has worked the best for my room and equipment. I have also used this technique on my friend's setup and it has changed how his system sounded.


Hey, Andrew, thanks for sharing! You said you lower your sub to -15 on the receiver, but my Yamaha only goes down to -10. In any event, I have got it tweaked about as perfectly as I can get it, AVR at -4.5 and gain on the sub set to 10:45. Cheers!


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