# Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Official Thread



## tonyvdb

Well I got my R-972 today from accessories4less (that shipped to me from Florida to Edmonton Canada in just 2 days!) and had an hour to hook it up and play with it just a little. 
First impressions are is that it was probably one of the best investments I could have made 

Out of the box this receiver is huge! the weight is about 45lbs although Ive red conflicting reports that it weighs as much as 60lbs. No matter how you look at it its a beast for size and covers the top shelf of my AV rack completely and its very tall for a receiver.
I hooked all my gear up to it and the main speakers (I plan only using this as a two channel setup) I then powered it up and it came to life without any issues (First sigh of releaf given the distance it traveled). Without even having time to do any of the settings or even running Trinnov I played my iPod and could not believe the clarity of the sound, It brought my Missions to life it seems. they were clean and like my EV sentrys downstairs sounded much more dynamic and the separation was outstanding!

Im going to spend some more time playing tomorrow but for now I am thrilled by what its done even without any room eq applied :T

*To check the version of your R-972 firmware:* 
hold Display and Enter/Memo

*To reset the R-972 to factory settings: *
Once in Standby Mode, press and hold down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM . If not, repeat the reset process.

Information on installing the bass boost Hex files here


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Tony,
I am so glad you are pleased with the 972. The longer I have it, the more I am convinced it is one the greatest values for an AVR I have ever come across and truly feel blessed to have one.
Cheers,
J


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

That is great to hear Tony! I am having delusions of grandeur that mine will arive tomorrow. One downside, I have to hook it up to my Acoutimass 10 for now...... :sob:

On the plus side, the boys and I went down and watched Batman Begins tonight - oh wow I can't wait to finish my room and get that equipment going in a sealed room.....


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Thanks Jack and Joe. I am really impressed with it so far. I am again in the mindset that spending the money on a good quality receiver "and" speakers not just speakers is a must in order to really get the sound that the recording artists intended you to hear. I do not believe that a pre-pro is of any real value any more when you can get a unit like this for $600 brand new!


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Based on your impressions, I may just have to lug this down and swap it in for my 809 to see what they sound like with my EmpTek i55 towers.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Im not really sure there would be much difference between the two as the 809 is not at all a low end receiver either. My 805 is not going anywhere either, I just believe that the Marantz 6005 that I was using was not in the same liege but it was a step up from the Yamaha RXV995 that I used before it .


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Joe,
I would list the Acoustimass on Craigslist tonight or tomorrow. To the unwashed masses, Bose holds a great amount of cachet. Thanks to this, you should be able to get a decent return of your investment to allocate towards vastly superior Speakers. I am quite confident we could help you get a vastly better Speaker Array for not much more than the proceeds from selling the Bose. I would guess you could even sell them to a friend or family member.]JJ


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Well, I ordered this thing yesterday afternoon. I've been lusting after the Marantz SR7005, but I know that at $1300, I would never really be able to afford one. I really can't afford the 972 either, but simply could not resist the opportunity. I already own a couple other Sherwood Newcastle receivers (771 & 772) for bedroom and wifey's living room system; I find them to be a bit odd, but they work). I'm buying the R972 to replace my Marantz SR7300 in the main veiwing room. Does anyone know if the 972 will passthru an HDMI signal to my TV when power is off?

Jim


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Hi Jim, The 972 will easily blow the doors off the Marantz 7005 so you made a very good choice. I dont have a HDMI capable display hooked up to my 972 so I can not confirm if it will pass HDMI video when off however I will see if it passes Component (when I get home tonight) as thats what I use, chances is if it does it will also pass HDMI


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Jungle Jack said:


> Joe,
> I would list the Acoustimass on Craigslist tonight or tomorrow. To the unwashed masses, Bose holds a great amount of cachet. Thanks to this, you should be able to get a decent return of your investment to allocate towards vastly superior Speakers. I am quite confident we could help you get a vastly better Speaker Array for not much more than the proceeds from selling the Bose. I would guess you could even sell them to a friend or family member.]JJ


I have seen several times where you have been able to suggest a very good system for very reasonable cost - challenge accepted! I think I will package my 604 and the Bose system and see if I can move them.....


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Joe, I fully agree with Jacks assessment, you would be doing the 972 a miss justice hooking it up to the Bose speakers LOL JK
Hope you get yours today, I am looking forward to hearing yours and others opinions on it  But out of the box its an amazing unit.


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> Hi Jim, The 972 will easily blow the doors off the Marantz 7005 so you made a very good choice. I dont have a HDMI capable display hooked up to my 972 so I can not confirm if it will pass HDMI video when off however I will see if it passes Component (when I get home tonight) as thats what I use, chances is if it does it will also pass HDMI


Thanks for the reply. It would be nice if you would check this out for me. It wouldn't be a disaster if it didn't pass the HDMI through, it's just that sometimes I don't listen to the TV with the system on. My other concern is about how deep the chassis is: some 19"+. If so, I'm gonna have to figure out how my equipment stand is gonna work.

Jim


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



jaymz said:


> My other concern is about how deep the chassis is: some 19"+. If so, I'm gonna have to figure out how my equipment stand is gonna work.
> 
> Jim


Yes, its a very deep and tall unit. Its even deeper than my Onkyo 805 and that is a very large receiver.


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> Yes, its a very deep and tall unit. Its even deeper than my Onkyo 805 and that is a very large receiver.


I'm OK, height-wise, but depth...my system stand may need some reinforcement:










The reassuring thing is the in the last review in the first post, he's using the 972 with Def Tech BP 3000s mains, with the DT 2002 C/L/R. I have DT 2002s with the same center so it should know what to do with the built-in subwoofers.

After seeing the calbration mic, I know now what the device was that Klaatu tried to give us Earthlings before they shot him.

Jim


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



jaymz said:


> Well, I ordered this thing yesterday afternoon. I've been lusting after the Marantz SR7005, but I know that at $1300, I would never really be able to afford one. I really can't afford the 972 either, but simply could not resist the opportunity. I already own a couple other Sherwood Newcastle receivers (771 & 772) for bedroom and wifey's living room system; I find them to be a bit odd, but they work). I'm buying the R972 to replace my Marantz SR7300 in the main veiwing room. Does anyone know if the 972 will passthru an HDMI signal to my TV when power is off?
> 
> Jim


Jim,
The 972 does not offer HDMI CEC Control so it does not offer Passthrough when the AVR is turned off. You could always run Components to the TV and HDMI to the AVR and just switch TV Inputs when/if you want to watch TV with your HT off.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



jaymz said:


> I'm OK, height-wise, but depth...my system stand may need some reinforcement:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The reassuring thing is the in the last review in the first post, he's using the 972 with Def Tech BP 3000s mains, with the DT 2002 C/L/R. I have DT 2002s with the same center so it should know what to do with the built-in subwoofers.
> 
> After seeing the calbration mic, I know now what the device was that Klaatu tried to give us Earthlings before they shot him.
> 
> Jim


Indeed. The Microphone is the most impressive I have ever seen bundled with an AVR. I cannot get over just how powerful Trinnov truly is.


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Regarding the dimensions, the Sherwood web site lists the depth as 17-7/8", so I'm thinking the 19.875" depth must be inclusive of not only the chassis, but also includes the speaker posts in back and the front knobs. If that is the case (can one of you owners verify this theory), then I'm OK and the shelf I want to use.

Jim


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

I just measured mine and its 20" if you include the power cord as its very ridged and sticks out at least that much before I would even dare to try to bend it. The volume and selector knob stick out of the front another 3/4 of an inch on the front.


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Any more impressions for us awaiting our deliveries Tony? :bigsmile:

Oh, and I love the fact that you already updated your signature to show the Sherwood instead of the Marantz!


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

LOL, Im just waiting till I put my two daughters to bed before I do some more tinkering and listening. I will not run the receivers Trinnov till tomorrow morning some time as I dont want to do it if they are sleeping 
I take it your receiver did not arrive today?


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

No, it did not. All in all, a rather frustrating day as I am struggling with the screen wall design at the moment. Hope to see it tomorrow!

By the way, I did contact several people about an available Acoustimass 10 system. :bigsmile: Let's hope someone is interested!


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Thats good you have interest in your Bose speakers. I hope the receiver arrives soon.


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> I just measured mine and its 20" if you include the power cord as its very ridged and sticks out at least that much before I would even dare to try to bend it. The volume and selector knob stick out of the front another 3/4 of an inch on the front.


What does the actual chassis box measure, front to back? Looks like mine shipped and is due to arrive on the 29th.

It will also be interesting to find out if Sherwood has fixed some of the odd quirks that are present in my other Sherwood R771 & R772 receivers (one powers a bedroom system; the other my wife's living room system w/47" LG). When switching between sources, there is the screwy flashing and clicking as the receiver switches and locks on. The manuals are terrible. The other thing that throws me is SN's odd way of organizing the various source settings on the front panel (into video and audio); much different than Marantz.

I wonder if they sold out of them. On their eBay posting, it said they were down to one unit.

Jim


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Wow - who knew Fed Ex delivered at 8:30AM on a Saturday! The Sherwood is here - too bad I have basketball games for the boys most of the day and really will not get a chance to do anything with it until Monday.

Boy, is it a heavy box! :bigsmile:


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



jaymz said:


> What does the actual chassis box measure, front to back?


just the chassis is just over 17" deep



> It will also be interesting to find out if Sherwood has fixed some of the odd quirks that are present in my other Sherwood R771 & R772 receivers (one powers a bedroom system; the other my wife's living room system w/47" LG). When switching between sources, there is the screwy flashing and clicking as the receiver switches and locks on. The manuals are terrible.


I agree the manual is not very informative and the button layout is a bit strange. As jack already mentioned the remote is useless in a poorly lit room as well. So far I havent done much with the video side of it but it seems to function very well without any glitches that I have found. They shipped these units with the new firmware that fixes the bugs in earlier units and also upgrades it to HDMI1.4


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



ALMFamily said:


> Wow - who knew Fed Ex delivered at 8:30AM on a Saturday! The Sherwood is here - too bad I have basketball games for the boys most of the day and really will not get a chance to do anything with it until Monday.
> 
> Boy, is it a heavy box! :bigsmile:


Oh, this is going to be a hard day to get through knowing it sitting at home.


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> just the chassis is just over 17" deep
> 
> I agree the manual is not very informative and the button layout is a bit strange. As jack already mentioned the remote is useless in a poorly lit room as well. So far I havent done much with the video side of it but it seems to function very well without any glitches that I have found. They shipped these units with the new firmware that fixes the bugs in earlier units and also upgrades it to HDMI1.4


Thanks so much for the info. My currrent Marantz SR 7300 is 16-5/8" deep, so I'm sure the R972 will fit just fine. The weight, however, may be another story. The shelves on my rack/stand are cantilevered a full 16+", so I may have to figure out additional support. Maybe a 1/2" cable, attached to the ceiling ;-)

Owning two Sherwoods already, I am already familiar with no backlit remote...and that's OK because my Marantz remote isn't either, nor are any of my other component remotes, except for the 55" LG TV. Even if they were backlit, I probably wouldn't be able to see the little itty-bitty button labels.

I am seeing that as far as HDMI 1.4 goes, some say it is full 1.4; others say it is still 1.3 with 3D implemented. Any authoritative source on the full 1.4?

I am curious about the date of the firmware and version on the units you guys are receiving. The Sherwood web site's latest firmware downloads aren't all that current. Is there a Mfg. date sticker on the back of the unit?

Thanks,

Jim


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Accessories4less says HDMI1.4 upgraded however I wonder if you are correct, The firmware is the "latest available" Ive got my receiver in the rack so i dont want to move it to see the date but so far I haven't had any of the strange issues that many older units have displayed.


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> Accessories4less says HDMI1.4 upgraded however I wonder if you are correct, The firmware is the "latest available" Ive got my receiver in the rack so i dont want to move it to see the date but so far I haven't had any of the strange issues that many older units have displayed.


Well, it DOES say HDMI 1.4 on the A4L web site.

Jim


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## vinodk

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

I don't think its HDMI 1.4 but the sales rep for A4L I e-mailed last weekend said that it can pass 3D & come with latest firmware 1.47v. Is there a way to check firmware in the unit? Jeff Hipps who used to work for Sherwood stated in AVSForum thread that the unit can pass 3D if the videoprocessor is set in bypass mode. I am guessing that it doesn't to HDMI CEC & ARC like true HDMI 1.4 units but only 3D passthrough.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Well, I did the first run through of Trinnov and I am really impressed 
I spent last night building some speaker cables and I Bi-Amped my speakers. Its sounds great :clap: 
Trinnov nailed my speaker capabilities bang on and set the distance correctly, now I have to play with some of the advanced settings that Trinnov allows......but first I need to fold laundry LOL


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Hello,
I do not think calling it HDMI 1.4 is accurate. However, it can Passthrough 3D. So it is somewhat similar to the PS3. 3D was the last upgrade S/N did for the 972.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Sonnie

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

You didn't fold that shirt properly Tony... :foottap:

Can we see some full range frequency graphs of before and after Trinnov?


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

LOL, I will see when I can find time this weekend to do it. I haven't used REW in about 3 years so Im a bit rusty :hide: 
I can say that I am very happy with the results compared to what Auddyssey did in the Marantz.


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## JBrax

tonyvdb said:


> LOL, I will see when I can find time this weekend to do it. I haven't used REW in about 3 years so Im a bit rusty :hide:
> I can say that I am very happy with the results compared to what Auddyssey did in the Marantz.


Just scanning through the thread hear fellas. Is the consensus that Trinnov is a step up from Audyssey?


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



JBrax said:


> Is the consensus that Trinnov is a step up from Audyssey?


I think in some ways yes due to its ability to actually measure the room in 3D Audyssey XT And XT32 are still very good but anything less Trinnov is a huge step up.


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## JBrax

tonyvdb said:


> I think in some ways yes due to its ability to actually measure the room in 3D Audyssey XT And XT32 are still very good but anything less Trinnov is a huge step up.


It seems this is the first AVR that has offered Trinnov at a price affordable to the average consumer. Pretty amazing technology and that mic looks to be from another planet.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Trinnov was only available in a stand alone unit that sold for $13,000 so getting it in an AVR for $600 is more than a deal!


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

So, maybe someone can tell me what the plastic panel thats on the top left of the receiver seen in this photo is for. Its not covering a hole and its not structural.
Jack and Joe, does yours have it?


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

I will open it up and check real quick.


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Yes, Tony, mine is the same. The only thing I can think of is a removeable top to allow better access to clean out the dust?


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Nope, already looked closely. it is solid crate all the way through underneath it just like the rest of the top :dontknow:


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Hello,
I too have that Performance Panel at the top left of the Cover. I do not think there has been a Professional Review where they have not questioned the reason for it. However, for some reason, mine does not seem as prominent. It well could be from the angle of your picture.

Also, I personally purchased the 972 to satiate my curiosity about Trinnov. I was inches away from getting one several years ago, but there were too many issues. To S/N's credit, they really did fix the major issues and the reliability has been excellent. I have followed this AVR for years and have never read of an HDMI Board Failure or other major issue. What is awesome is that thanks to these AVR's being A-Stock, the 3 Year Warranty applies.
Even better that Amazon is still selling the 972 for $1200.
Cheers,
J


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## Sonnie

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

$30,000? Where did you see that at? The Trinnov ST2-HiFi loudspeaker/room optimizer cost $6,200. What is included in the receiver is not the full version that cost $6,200... it is a valued down version.

I may have to pick up one of these just so I can do some comparisons, although with its inability to handle multiple subs like Audyssey does with XT32 and Sub HT EQ, I have a hard time believing it can do as well in the low end.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Hello,
All of the Professional Reviews said that the standalone Trinnov cost $13,000. Not once did I see $30,000 being mentioned. However, $13,000 was mentioned prominently. In my "I Got a New Toy" Thread, there are multiple links on the first post. It could be that the Processor price has come down...
Cheers,
JJ


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## Sonnie

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Maybe there are different versions, but I believe the standalone unit that most end-users would purchase is the one in the Stereophile review, which is the Trinnov ST2-HiFi loudspeaker/room optimizer. It cost $6,200 as of April 2011.


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## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Hello,
I am thinking that is a new release. It makes sense as the Sherwood/Newcastle has remained the only HT Component to offer it and it is no spring chicken, It also makes sense as the write up seems to also infer that it is a new product as well meant for the HT Market as opposed to Professional Applications.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Kal Rubinson

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Sonnie said:


> Maybe there are different versions, but I believe the standalone unit that most end-users would purchase is the one in the Stereophile review, which is the Trinnov ST2-HiFi loudspeaker/room optimizer. It cost $6,200 as of April 2011.


Not a review but a show report.


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## Sonnie

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Kal Rubinson said:


> Not a review but a show report.


Thank you for the clarification.

I noticed in your "review" you mention the $13,000 "professional" version.

You are familiar with both, how would you compare XT32 vs. the R-972 Trinnov?


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## Sonnie

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Kal... you also mentioned the two new EQ curves offering low-frequency increases of +3dB or +6dB. Do you (or any of you that have recently purchased this receiver) know if these curves are now included or can still be acquired?


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## vinodk

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

I am curious too as to how to get +3db & +6db EQ curves. Perhaps somebody can provide a link.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Ok, so I think I setup REW correctly.
Here is the graph of the results.

Red is without Trinnov
Green is after running Trinnov No subwoffer


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Sonnie said:


> Kal... you also mentioned the two new EQ curves offering low-frequency increases of +3dB or +6dB. Do you (or any of you that have recently purchased this receiver) know if these curves are now included or can still be acquired?


Sorry Sonnie, it was my typo error saying $30,000 for the stand alone version of Trinnov it was supposed to say $13,000

As far as an EQ curve there are several curves that you can apply to the Trinnov:

Flat ) "Flattest response of all speakers"
audio phile 1) "adjusts the surround/centre channel speakers so that they match the characteristics of the mains"
audio phile 2) "adjusts the low frequency response of all speakers to correct the acoustics of the room"
Natural ) "adds a modest boost to frequencies below 200Hz and a slight cut above 10kHz"


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## Kal Rubinson

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Sonnie said:


> Thank you for the clarification.
> 
> I noticed in your "review" you mention the $13,000 "professional" version.
> 
> You are familiar with both, how would you compare XT32 vs. the R-972 Trinnov?


Hard to say since I did not have them side-by-side. What I recall is that the Trinnov in the Sherwood did an excellent job of regular speaker/roomEQ but was plagued by requiring attention to those additional EQ curves while Pro Trinnov, of course, would let the user manipulate those variables. Audyssey, especially XT32, has not, imho, had any such issues and Pro is available for those who want/need tweaking. My niggling issues with the Sherwood, as indicated in the review were not about Trinnov.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Kal, are these "3db" and "6db" Hex files available to the general public that you got from Jeff Hipps of Sherwood?

Edit: I sent Sherwood a request and explained my situation so I will post back once I hear something from them.


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## Sonnie

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Tony... I would be surprised if you could actually listen to either of those response curves for very long, unless your hearing drops off about 10db at 2kHz and continues to drop by 25db or more at 5kHz on up. Something is definitely wrong somewhere. 

Your sub dropping off at 30-35Hz does not look right either.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

The sub is just a small 6.5" Yamaha so I doubt it goes much lower than that, I want to get one of those SVS SB12 NSDs but will wait till later for that as Ive spent enough LOL
As far as those readings from REW Im going to try again later this week and see whats up but I think the levels are ok below 2kHz as the CM140 isn't much good above 8kHz anyhow.


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## Kal Rubinson

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> Kal, are these "3db" and "6db" Hex files available to the general public that you got from Jeff Hipps of Sherwood?
> 
> Edit: I sent Sherwood a request and explained my situation so I will post back once I hear something from them.


I do not know for sure but the impression I got was that they would be provided to others "as needed."


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## jaymz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Jungle Jack said:


> Jim,
> You could always run Components to the TV and HDMI to the AVR and just switch TV Inputs when/if you want to watch TV with your HT off.
> Cheers,
> JJ


Since my HDMI TV source is located about 35' away, I'm gonna stick with the HDMI/out from my DVR to HDMI/in on the TV, and run an optical connection from the TV to the 972 (as I have now). See any problems with that?

Jim


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## vinodk

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Setup my receiver. Everything sounds great except the bass seems a bit off. Trinnov shows my subs -6bd point at 19hz. Can I increase the gain on the sub amp without throwing off Trinnov EQ for the sub? Wondering where can I obtain those low frequency +3db/+6db files to boost the low end.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



vinodk said:


> Setup my receiver. Everything sounds great except the bass seems a bit off. Trinnov shows my subs -6bd point at 19hz. Can I increase the gain on the sub amp without throwing off Trinnov EQ for the sub? Wondering where can I obtain those low frequency +3db/+6db files to boost the low end.


Yes, just increase the subs output level on the sub. I sent Sherwood an email so I will let you know what they say about the files once I receive a response.


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## vinodk

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Thanks Tony. Audyssey allows you to increase sub trim in the setup menu after calibration but specifically warns against increasing sub gain on the sub amp in order to preserve EQ therefore I was not sure if increasing the sub gain at the sub amp will throw off Trinnov EQ for the sub. Looks like Trinnov preserves the sub equalization even if you play with gain on sub amp unlike Audyssey. Hopefully you get some response re the +3db/+6db files from Sherwood.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Ok, Serwood got back to me and sent me the two HEX files. I will install them this evening and let everyone know the difference it makes.


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## Sonnie

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Perhaps you can upload them via attachment and allow others to download them.


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## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

I dont want to cause an issue with Sherwood (I kind of get the impression that they dont wont these files floating around) but I can do that if you think thats ok?


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## ALMFamily

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Maybe just have people ask you to send them in an email? I would be curious about them as well, but do not want you to feel uncomfortable putting them out there.


----------



## tonyvdb

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*

Its ok I can try and hopefully I dont cause trouble.

Please open the attached zip file and uncompress. Please copy all of the factory.hex files to USB drive root position. (ex. E:\factory.hex)
To update this firmware, turn ON the 972 and wait for relay click. Once you hear the relay click, change the input to USB. When NO DEVICE displayed, please insert the USB drive to the front USB slot.

Update will automatically start.

After finished, please reset the receiver by following the attached instruction. 

To successfully reset, you need to start with the unit in the Standby Mode. To put
the unit in the standby mode simply press the standby button when the unit is On or unplug the
power cord from 120V AC and then plug it back in. Once in Standby Mode, press and hold
down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This
will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice
that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM . If not, repeat the reset process


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
A few things. I went ahead and changed the title from "First Impressions" to the Official Thread as this is really what this Thread is taking shape of being. Also, I too got the Hex Files and I do not think there is any issue to posting a link for them.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## tonyvdb

Thanks Jack :T

Does anyone think changing the original (.rar) file to a (.zip) will affect the file in any way? I had to uncomperss the .rar file and then recompress it to a .zip in order to upload it here.


----------



## smurphy522

Jack et al,
How do you rate the Sherwood R972 vs. the Onkyo 3008. Mainly comparison of the amplifier section and EQ capabilities (Audyssey XT32 vs. Trinnov). Thanks.


----------



## tonyvdb

XT32 is better for the sub channel if you have 2 subs however my thoughts are that because Trinnov measures the room in 3D it may have better results on the mains. Over all I think XT32 and even XT is very similar and not worth changing to Trinnov


----------



## eyecatcher127

I should be getting my 972 tomorrow, I'll follow up soon with my impressions. I've personally owned setup measured with mcacc, ypao, xt, xt32 and now i'll have trinnov. I could even measure with rew and plot some graphs of xt32 and trinnov using my cross spectrum calibrated mic.


----------



## tonyvdb

Hi Jack, now that you have played with your 972 what are your thoughts? I am having issues with REW so my readings are wrong. I am sure its my soundcard cal file thats not working right.

Have you tried your Hex files yet?


----------



## Jungle Jack

smurphy522 said:


> Jack et al,
> How do you rate the Sherwood R972 vs. the Onkyo 3008. Mainly comparison of the amplifier section and EQ capabilities (Audyssey XT32 vs. Trinnov). Thanks.


Hello,
As I do not use the Amplifiers in AVR's, I cannot give a great deal of insight about the power of them. I will say the 3008 weighs almost 20 pounds more than the 972 and is THX Ultra2 Plus Certified. With this being the case, I would give the nod to the 3008 in terms of Amplification.

As for EQ, Trinnov is truly excellent. I think it is especially good for Rooms with less than ideal Acoustics and or suboptimal Speaker Arrangements. XT32 with SubEQ HT is fantastic as well. Especially if using Dual Subwoofers.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## vinodk

Uploaded +6db hex file to my receiver. There are no new menu options & after calibration the calculated trim levels are the same as before but music sounds fuller with better bottom end therefore I am assuming that +6db curve was automatically added. Would be interesting to know other users experience with +3db/+6db hex files.


----------



## tonyvdb

Yes, I also get the same as you. The lower frequencies are richer and it sounds much better. I also did not get any new menu options so I am assuming that it adds the curve to all settings evenly.


----------



## jaymz

My apologies for posting this question here, but I figure I have a lot of Sherwood Newcastle owners here that might give me a wider audience than if I posted in a separate thread.

Recently purchased a new R-772; already have a R-771 and a new R-972 on the way!

When setting up the R-772, I am experiencing a strange anomaly:

When I route my HDMI source (Dish Network #622 DVR) into the HDMI #1 input, the 772 locks onto Dolby Digital 5.1 mode (which is what I want it to do).

However, when I route the DVR HDMI directly into the TV and use the TV's optical out, routed into the #1 optical in on the 772, it won't lock onto the DD 5.1 mode; best I get is Dolby Prologic modes, which don't sound as good as pure DD 5.1.

Any idea what is going on here? I really want to set up the 772 using the optical mode for the audio source.

Jim


----------



## vinodk

I am wondering if the hex file raises only the trim level for sub channel or all channels?


----------



## tonyvdb

Are you certian that you have the DVR outputting Surround Or Bitstream If its in stereo that could be why its only giving you Dolby Pro Logic.


----------



## tonyvdb

vinodk said:


> I am wondering if the hex file raises only the trim level for sub channel or all channels?


I seem to think it applies a curve to everything below 200Hz


----------



## jaymz

tonyvdb said:


> Are you certian that you have the DVR outputting Surround Or Bitstream If its in stereo that could be why its only giving you Dolby Pro Logic.


I'll check, but it must be because I get DD 5.1 when I run the HDMI directly into the receiver's HDMI #1 input.

Edit: Yes, it is set to output DD/PCM.

Like I say, when I run the DVR's HDMI cable (same one as above) to the TV, and use the TV's optical out into the 772, all I can get is DD pro logic (and a bunch of Neo, stereo, Effects, etc.) Just so strange. I suppose I can buy a splitter and run one branch to the TV and one into the 772. The real cause of all this is that the 772 doesn't allow HDMI pass thru, so I can't operate TV w/o receiver on. Also, if I hook it up w/HDMI directly into the 772, I get the DD 5.1 I want, but no sound output to the TV; must have the 772 on all the time. If I turn the HDMI to send sound out, then the TV has sound, but this cuts off all the speakers connected to the 772. Nice, huh? This is all to accomodate the Wifey.

Jim


----------



## tonyvdb

Oh, Ok I understand. If your going back out from the TV to the receiver you will only get 2.1 sound as that is a restriction put on the manufacturers by the "powers that be"


----------



## jaymz

tonyvdb said:


> Oh, Ok I understand. If your going back out from the TV to the receiver you will only get 2.1 sound as that is a restriction put on the manufacturers by the "powers that be"


Am sending inquiry to LG on this issue.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...well, at least that would make sense out of what I'm experiencing. The TV manual implies DD 5.1, but doesn't actually say it is ("if you want to listen to an audio source thru a 5.1 system...use the TV's audio out"). On the other hand, my LG TV downstairs (different model than the Wife's LG) outputs a DD 5.1 signal from its optical audio out to the optical in on my Marantz SR 7300, and does DD 5.1 just fine (this was only after hacking into the service menu and switching AC3 on). It looks like running the little splitter would solve the problem:

DVR HDMI/out into the splitter.
One branch of splitter directly into TV (maintains picture and TV sound). No need to turn on 772 to just watch TV.
Other branch of splitter into HDMI#1/in on 772. Will output DD 5.1 to speakers and show video on TV screen.

All the Wife has to do is turn on the 772 or switch TV HDMI inputs to watch DVD.

We'll see what happens on the R-992 when it comes tomorrow.

Thanks,

Jim


----------



## tonyvdb

If your using the TVs built in tuner then you will get 5.1 output but if your sending a signal from another source to the TV then back to the receiver it is restricted to 2.1 only.


----------



## jaymz

tonyvdb said:


> If your using the TVs built in tuner then you will get 5.1 output but if your sending a signal from another source to the TV then back to the receiver it is restricted to 2.1 only.


OK...I'm assuming since the only input to the TV is from the Dish #622, then all I'm getting is 2.1. That still doesn't account for the fact that the HDMI in on the 772 passes the DD 5.1 signal.

My head hurts.

Jim


----------



## tonyvdb

jaymz said:


> That still doesn't account for the fact that the HDMI in on the 772 passes the DD 5.1 signal.


But thats because your using HDMI from the 772 your not going through the TV first. Only TVs are restricted not receivers.


----------



## eyecatcher127

972 has sold out on a4l thanks to us


----------



## tonyvdb

I wonder how many were purchased by Shack members?


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I definitely think we were out ahead of purchasing them. Compared to even larger AV Forums. Just an awesome deal. 3 Year Warranty, $1200 off MSRP, Trinnov, Reon, Preamp Outputs, and a solid Amplifier Stage. I hope Mark gets more 972's, but I am not sure if AC4L will be able to.
Cheers,
J


----------



## eyecatcher127

Anyone know how to display the firmware level on the 972? I'm having some issues with HDMI handshake when I change channels on my cable box where the resolution changes, - i'll get snow. I have the upscale set to bypass and tried configuring the video and audio from auto to hdmi and vice versa. I've periodically has issues in the past with some avr's and my display but the 3008 has been the best so far, it always sync's up and I get picture. Its particularly bad with the 972. The audio delay is bad enough but tolerable, I almost don't mind the clicking now fromt he 3008. Its so fast, I'm a channel surfer. I'm not sure I could use it if I can't resolve this hdmi sync. It sounds totally different than audyssey, I just got it all setup last night, so I need some more time with it before I report on the sound. Anyone experience video issues?


----------



## jaymz

tonyvdb said:


> But thats because your using HDMI from the 772 your not going through the TV first. Only TVs are restricted not receivers.


Victory! I figured perhaps the Wife's LG (47LD650) had the same service menu settings as my new LG 55LW5600 downstairs. On that one, I also got just a stereo signal out of the optical out, but had hacked the service menu to "start" the AC3 signal. On a hunch, I used the same procedure to hack into the LD650's service menu and found the same setting. I started it on AC3, and it now outputs DD 5.1 from the optical output. So now the wife can watch the TV alone, with internal TV sound, or she can turn on the R-772, mute the TV sound, and listen in glorius Dolby Digital 5.1.

Now perhaps she won't kill me when she discovers the new R-972 in my system (although I'm sure she won't soon notice a new black box...perhaps forever). 

Waiting for the Fed-Ex dude to show up....

Jim


----------



## ssaull

Sherwood's website is down. Could they be out of business?


----------



## ssaull

I called a 714 area code number that I got when I called their number in the Yellow Pages; they are working on their website


----------



## mdp

Their site is up now.

By the way, what's their latest firmware? 1.47v or 1.47i? I think I read about both version nos.


----------



## jaymz

The R-972 has landed! Attempting to install.

Jim


----------



## ALMFamily

Grats Jim!! Can't wait to hear your impressions.....


----------



## jaymz

ALMFamily said:


> Grats Jim!! Can't wait to hear your impressions.....


Yeah...Holy hernia, Batman, what a ' monster! Gotta install shelf support brackets first.

Edit: Weighed the Marantz SR 7300 I removed for the R-972: 30 lbs.
R-972= 42.

Jim


----------



## tonyvdb

Yup, its a monster for size only my Carver receiver 6250 was even close to this in size. Looking forward to your impressions Jim.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
All of the AC4L 972's have the 1.47 FW. There is a way to check that yourself, but the process is eluding me. 
I will find out how to do it again, but for sure if yours is from AC4L it is the most current FW. Really sorry you are having Handshaking Issues. Do note the slight pause when switching Inputs is normal.
Cheers,
J


----------



## eyecatcher127

I found you can display firmware level by having the unit off in standby, then press and hold Display and Enter/Memo buttons, you can use the left dial to scroll through the levels. Who has 1.47v? The latest seems to be a 1.47i 08/12/2010 version.

I'm working on the handshake, seems the delay is a little quicker when I turned the Trinnov Spatial to none. It stinks the when I dim the display it doesn't remember when I turn the unit off and back on.


----------



## jaymz

Got the 972 installed and everything seems to work OK. Initial problems w/no sound from DVD player, but found I had the audio output turned off in the setup of the player. Will try the Trinnov soon.

Update: Went a round with the Trinnov, then listened to "Master and Commander" on BluRay. Wow! I really like what this did to my surrounds...puts me right in the middle of the action. Much more airy and open sound. Played some tunes, too. Highs MUCH more open. Tom Petty's 12 string Rickenbacher on, "I'll Feel A Whole Lot Better," is glorius! Was able to play tunes in both stereo and Dolby Pro Logic, but now just getting stereo. Any ideas?

Jim


----------



## eyecatcher127

False alarm. It appears the HDMI is more sensitive. I swapped out my SA 8300 DVR and the channels lock right in during resolution changes no snow now.


----------



## eyecatcher127

Initial measurement position 1 using rew and a calibrated mic from the listening position spatial was none and remapping none. Red is without room eq at none and blue is with it on Flat.


----------



## jaymz

Problems....
Anyone have a situation where one of your speakers does not show up during Trinnov calibration?

Clarification: the speaker (rt front) shows up, but registers zilch after calibration.

Help!!!

Jim


----------



## Jungle Jack

Jim,
That is a new one for me and I use Electrostats which are pretty unconventional. I will try to find out more about this and hopefully someone else here might have come across this.
J


----------



## jaymz

More to the story:

I use DT BP 2002 bipolar speakers. A call to Sherwood support (Jin) asked if I used Bi-polar speakers. Apparently there have been some problems with this type of speaker. I moved a piece of wifey's furniture and swapped speakers (subs now face inward), and finally managed to get a setup. My support call also revealed a possible firmware problem where you cannot manually delete the sub.
Tried several more times to get a setup, and now BOTH fronts seem to be missing. Jin said to keep moving the cal mic around and see what happens. He says he'll be back to me next week after the factory further investigates the sub issue. That issue is neither here nor there for me, but will keep trying to obtain another Trinnov calibration. At least I have ONE now.

How do you "lock" the setups so they can't be deleted?

Jim


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
The Calibrations are locked in after doing them and you have access to 3 different ones. Each one is locked in unless you run another calibration. As for Firmware, if you got yours from AC4L, it has the 1.47 Firmware which is the latest.


----------



## jaymz

Jungle Jack said:


> Hello,
> The Calibrations are locked in after doing them and you have access to 3 different ones. Each one is locked in unless you run another calibration. As for Firmware, if you got yours from AC4L, it has the 1.47 Firmware which is the latest.


OK, thanks. On the firmware, I think Jin meant that if the problem with the subwoofer item is confirmed, they will issue another update.

*Update: I moved the Trinnov mic forward a couple feet and managed to get another good calibration. So, apparently either Trinnov doesn't like my room OR the Def Tech bi-polars are causing a problem. I read somewhere that someone has Def Tech BP 3000 fronts that have worked OK.*

Jim


----------



## jaymz

After several more hours of playing around with the Trinnov calibration system, it now appears now that my right front speaker was in some sort of twilight zone, where Trinnov could not "see" it correctly. After trying several other mic placements, I was able to get a distance recognition for that speaker, but both angle settings were zilch. So, I tried "toeing in" (ratherly severely @ 30 degrees) the right front speaker, and that seemed to do it! Getting good readings now. So, if any of you run into this sort of problem, you might try fooling with speaker placement as a solution.

I'm really impressed with this receiver and happy I don't have a faulty unit.

Jim


----------



## tonyvdb

Ok finally had time to get REW to work correctly, ended up being an incorrect cable I was using.

Red: Without Trinnov

Green: With Trinnov










My living room has hardwood floors and my RPTV vibrates like crazy during the lower frequencies so Im sure that does not help with the readings but you can see it smooths out the room response a bit.

You can see where the Galaxy CM140 really starts to loose its accuracy above 6Khz

Below is the graph with the subwoofer. Trinnov seems to like it at this level, It sounds really good to me.










Now I need to play with the Hex files as the graph above is with the +6db file thats probably why there is such a big boost on the sub. Frankly I like it because I tend to listen to my music at lower levels and the boost helps it still sound full.

I also got rid of my lousy Yamaha sub and moved the extra A/D/S sub I had from the theater room for the time being as it is way better quality.


----------



## ALMFamily

jaymz said:


> After several more hours of playing around with the Trinnov calibration system, it now appears now that my right front speaker was in some sort of twilight zone, where Trinnov could not "see" it correctly. After trying several other mic placements, I was able to get a distance recognition for that speaker, but both angle settings were zilch. So, I tried "toeing in" (ratherly severely @ 30 degrees) the right front speaker, and that seemed to do it! Getting good readings now. So, if any of you run into this sort of problem, you might try fooling with speaker placement as a solution.
> 
> I'm really impressed with this receiver and happy I don't have a faulty unit.
> 
> Jim


Thanks for the tip Jim - glad to hear you got it figured out! :T


tonyvdb said:


> Ok finally had time to get REW to work correctly, ended up being an incorrect cable I was using.
> 
> Red: Without Trinnov
> 
> Green: With Trinnov
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My living room has hardwood floors and my RPTV vibrates like crazy during the lower frequencies so Im sure that does not help with the readings but you can see it smooths out the room response a bit.
> 
> You can see where the Galaxy CM140 really starts to loose its accuracy above 6Khz
> 
> Below is the graph with the subwoofer. Trinnov seems to like it at this level, It sounds really good to me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now I need to play with the Hex files as the graph above is with the +6db file thats probably why there is such a big boost on the sub. Frankly I like it because I tend to listen to my music at lower levels and the boost helps it still sound full.


Wow - that looks pretty good Tony - thanks for taking the time to post your results. :T


----------



## tonyvdb

Thanks Joe, I was getting really frustrated with the strange readings I was getting so I tried it on my desktop and got the exact same bad readings so I knew it had to be my cables.
Its interesting to see how close to flat it got the readings after running Trinnov. That null at 50Hz (without sub) must be the correction its applying to the sub because it disappears once the sub is turned on.


----------



## mdp

SherwoodUSA has an updated website and they have removed the R-972 from it. There is a new model R-977 there now. May be that's the reason on R-972 sale?

Anyway, A4L now has R-972 back in stock. Get it while it lasts.


----------



## jaymz

Interesting. Doesn't say whether it has Trinnov or not, just: *One Touch Automatic Speaker Setup*


----------



## mdp

Yep. But if they had Trinnov, they would sure like to advertize it as one of their big feature. Looks like its their own speaker setup solution that they used on other models.


----------



## tonyvdb

I think that Trinnov licensing is very costly, the 972 may very well be the only receiver to ever use it.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Here are some Application Notes from Trinnov:http://www.cahoyt.com/Trinnov/R972Trinnov.pdf
I looked through it and I really think it is quite useful.
J


----------



## tonyvdb

I find this statement interesting:

Multiple subs:
Trinnov finds the acoustical center, level, and response of multiple subs and compensates for that. Multiple subs are typically used to smooth out room modes. If you use multiple subs, start with equal level on each. Room mode nulls can result in very dramatic level swings as high up as 200Hz. *As a result, it can be very effective to counteract the modes from a main large sub with a smaller sub of limited capacity ideally placed, set to a lower level.* We use measurements to find this; you can do it by listening.

Kind of goes against what some have been saying that using the same subs in a room not different ones.


----------



## nova

This great deal from our friends at Accessories4less almost got me to give up my Denon, until I saw the HT Labs bench test results. I've seen a lot of interesting conversation on the Trinnov Optimizer but not much about the rest of it. How does this unit handle say, 4 Ohms, 84dB (2.83V @ 1 Meter) speakers at reference levels?


----------



## tonyvdb

Hi Mark, My Missions are 4ohm and 87db efficient and it handles them just fine without any heat issues. Ive run them loud (at least 80db) for an hour without issues. Personally I think the 972 is very under rated as far as it real power output.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
The 972, when Bench Tested, output over 100 Watts (>200 in 4 ohms) into 2 Channels and 68 Watts into 5/7 Channels due to a Current Limiter. Some Bench Tests do not make sense like the $3500 Denon AVR-4810 outputting 30 Watts into 7 Channels.

While the 972 does not have the most impressive Power Supply I have ever encountered (Denon AVR-5805 by a landslide), it is quite robust and the AVR weighs a touch over 40lbs. Considering the price and it having Preamp Outputs, all I can say is Trinnov was so intriguing that I was compelled to procure one.
With AC4L having a 30 Day Return Period, I do think it is worth the gamble of possible Return Shipping.
Cheers,
J


----------



## eyecatcher127

I hope someone else steps up with trinnov, It was very appealing but I'm said to say I'm returning my 972.


----------



## tonyvdb

What is the reason your returning it if I may ask?


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
From what I have read from several sources, it seems highly unlikely that another AVR is going to feature Trinnov. This is primarily due to the costs involved in implementation, Microphone, Memory and DSP being pushed to the max, cost of licencing, etc.. One of the Sources is almost definitely an upper level Representative from an AV Manufacturer who has always been bang on in terms of information going on a decade.

There is a reason that the only other Trinnov equipped Processor costs $13,000 and Trinnov has been out for years. I mention this as Audyssey was first only offered on high priced Processors and has since trickled down to a myriad of devices including some at very low price points.

That being said, I truly hope I am wrong about this. However, I needed another AVR/SSP like I needed a hole in my head and ended up with an R972 due to my personal belief that this will be the last Trinnov equipped device that does not cost a small fortune. And given that the 972 can now be had for $1200 off, it was just too good of a deal for me to pass up.

Without question, Trinnov has produced the best overall Room Correction I have ever experienced. I will say that the LFE sounds better with Audyssey XT32 added with SubEQ HT. However, XT32/SubEQ HT AVR's are $2000 minimum. And in truth even with it being on the market for several years, the 972 was an $1800 AVR, but at $600 the 972 still offers all the essentials for great HT experience.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## eyecatcher127

I think Kal Rubinson puts it best "the R-972 suffers from some niggling operational foibles to which I found myself unable to adapt" I know I was taking a step back with this unit lacking many of the newer features which I was willing to accept. I'm really looking for minimalist functionality and superior sound/video quality.

Its quite possible that my unit is defective, but I continued to have issues with HDMI in my configuration causing video drop out after swapping out equipment and cables. I thought I had it licked but it returned. I have zero problems with the 3008. That is really the main issue as it's not compatible with my setup.

The video section had to be used in bypass, I feel it still comes up a little short, I have the 3008 in thx pass-thru mode and the video is slightly superior IMHO. I also couldn't deal with the audio delay. I'd rather live with the clicking as I'm quite the channel surfer. I set the display to dim and when you shut it of and power back on, it doesn't recall the previous dimmed setting. The remote is really embarrassing in its functionality, shouldn't really matter since I have logitech, I just can't believe they would put something out like that.

However, the trinnov really impressed me by granting me with a huge sweet spot. Even with the spatial options disabled I was able to get excellent imaging and great sound quality. The remapping is equally impressive and the speakers all sound on the same plane and vanished. It sounded most similar to THX mode where the listener is focused to the center of the sound image. I noticed the bass suffered when I enabled some of the remappings. I started working on correcting that as some of the dynamics have been flattened by the room eq modes. I even considered replacing my display I just couldn't justify it.

Overall there were just too many cons vs pro of having the trinnov to keep the unit. I'm just disappointed in the implementation. I really like being able to have a little more control over things. Even though the levels and delays distances were all spot on. It truly is quite impressive. I'm sure others will enjoy it as I only need one processor.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Please note that Kal's Review was published in May of 2010. That means he well might have written the Review months before even May 2010 due to needing to get the Magazine to be Published. In the ensuing 2 years, there were countless Firmware Updates that went a great deal towards addressing many of the initial issues. Regardless, if you are not happy with it, I can only hope your next AVR brings you a more positive experience.


----------



## eyecatcher127

Please note, I didn't purchase it based on an article or this forum. Your right, but the latest firmware 1.47 is dated 8/12/2010 so KR probably did write it just prior to that. But countless firmware updates? I doubt there were many from May 2010 to August 2010? I'm unhappy to find any info on updates from 2010 to 2012. My take on the 972 resurgence is the price. I don't know what all the hubbub is about with firmware updates or bug list fixes. Where is the documentation on them? I kind of feel I've been duped. I convinced myself into buying one since I've been following and wanting trinnov for so long. I was hoping it would be more polished of a unit, thats why I referenced his comment. I figured A4L might have a later revision on firmware from sherwood. It displayed as 1.47i, still has the same date 8/12/2010 as well as the other same revision sub micom so I really don't think that there is any difference. I don't mean to sound bitter or negative about this cause I'm not. Something seems fishy here though regarding the firmware. I was reluctant to report my sending it back, and I knew someone would ask why, but I'm real happy with the 3008. I've had that for over a year, so I'll keep that and hold out for something better. My intention was to only keep one unit, the 3008 just is more reliable and has better video performance for me so I based my decision on that. I just hope there is another unit with trinnov coming out soon. It has a lot of potential and should be in a avr-processor in the $500-$1500 price point. I feel it can definitely compete with the other room eq's out there and without a doubt I'd purchase one.


----------



## Jungle Jack

eyecatcher127 said:


> Please note, I didn't purchase it based on an article or this forum. Your right, but the latest firmware 1.47 is dated 8/12/2010 so KR probably did write it just prior to that. But countless firmware updates? I doubt there were many from May 2010 to August 2010? I'm unhappy to find any info on updates from 2010 to 2012. My take on the 972 resurgence is the price. I don't know what all the hubbub is about with firmware updates or bug list fixes. Where is the documentation on them? I kind of feel I've been duped. I convinced myself into buying one since I've been following and wanting trinnov for so long. I was hoping it would be more polished of a unit, thats why I referenced his comment. I figured A4L might have a later revision on firmware from sherwood. It displayed as 1.47i, still has the same date 8/12/2010 as well as the other same revision sub micom so I really don't think that there is any difference. I don't mean to sound bitter or negative about this cause I'm not. Something seems fishy here though regarding the firmware. I was reluctant to report my sending it back, and I knew someone would ask why, but I'm real happy with the 3008. I've had that for over a year, so I'll keep that and hold out for something better. My intention was to only keep one unit, the 3008 just is more reliable and has better video performance for me so I based my decision on that. I just hope there is another unit with trinnov coming out soon. It has a lot of potential and should be in a avr-processor in the $500-$1500 price point. I feel it can definitely compete with the other room eq's out there and without a doubt I'd purchase one.



I too own a 3008 as well. Given you purchased the 972 not based on information here or an Article, where did you find information which made you decide to purchase one. I regret you feel duped, but with a 30 Day Return Policy, it is not like you have lost the principal. As I said in my last Post, I regret it did not work out for you. For many of us, the good outweighs the bad. Sorry you did not see it this way I suppose.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Also, the 3008 and 972 use the identical HQV Reon Video Processor.


----------



## eyecatcher127

The purchase was culminated from all the info gathered from many sources. I've known about trinnov for over 2 years. I've read all the articles on the 972 when they were first published. I tend to do a lot of research. The recent information alludes that the latest firmware was made available resolving issues. I haven't be able to find any sources regarding the details of the firmware updates. No one as provided that info. My point is the latest firmware still seems to be from 2010 and the unit is still not as polished as an $1800 AVR should be. Even at $599 It I wasn't impressed overall to keep it. I simply feel that if they could resolve a few minor issues in another update, this could be an amazing avr. However I"m doubtful any other updates will be made available.

I do agree that the unit has probably the best room eq I've experienced. I've setup and used all the versions of audyssey, mccac and ypao. The xt32 does still see to to the best job in the sub range. It is nice to see that trinnov does observer and equalize the sub output and it did a respectful job.

The unit also does apear to use a similar version of Reon however, the implementation is not the same as it did not perform nor look as good. It could be the specific revision of the chipset or again firmware. If it was truly identical and I did not have video issues, I would have kept the unit. 

I'm not bashing this unit. It does have tremendous value and I hope it works out for everyone else. You asked why so, I'm just providing my perspective. Thats all. This unit is all about trinnov and I'm just disappointed that the reon in my 3008 works perfect and the 972 does not. Again it could be defective or could use some more refinement. Thats the bottom line and why the unit was returned. There is really nothing to debate about.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I certainly did not consider it bashing in terms of what you wrote. On the Thread where I disclosed that I purchased one, I talked about how the Remote was a disappointment for an $1800 AVR and other remarks.
Check out the "I Just Got a New Toy" Thread as it predates this Owners Thread. Also, I said this AVR was not for everyone as well.

As I stated a few Posts prior, I am sorry it did not work out for you and hope the next one is more to your liking. We both want and need users impressions. Good and bad. Please do not think you are being singled out due to deciding to return it. Rather, I was personally curious as to why you decided to return it as I feel given the savings the juice is worth the squeeze. That's all.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## islandman2020

tonyvdb said:


> I find this statement interesting:
> 
> Multiple subs:
> Trinnov finds the acoustical center, level, and response of multiple subs and compensates for that. Multiple subs are typically used to smooth out room modes. If you use multiple subs, start with equal level on each. Room mode nulls can result in very dramatic level swings as high up as 200Hz. *As a result, it can be very effective to counteract the modes from a main large sub with a smaller sub of limited capacity ideally placed, set to a lower level.* We use measurements to find this; you can do it by listening.
> 
> Kind of goes against what some have been saying that using the same subs in a room not different ones.[/QUOTE
> 
> 
> A past girlfriend had terrible bass modal problems in her room. She had a JBL Sub 10 that had a 10" woofer. It was rear ported and only about 150W at best. Bass sounded pretty bad no matter where you put the sub. I brought over one of my Polk Micropro 4000's: 12" speaker, 1200w, 12x12 passive radiator on the bottom, and used a Y cable to hook up both subs. I re-ran her room eq on her HK254. The result was nothing short dramatic....very impressive for a square room with hardwood floors. I think there might be something in using subs of different sizes. Using two different subs where speaker cones are of different sizes, materials, having different transient response times may actually have some superior benefit in taming a room. Would be worth investigating I think.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Big props to your ex Girlfriend owning a Subwoofer. That statement is food for thought as the Descent i is a good bit more powerful than my Depth Subwoofer.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Rightbrained

Hey guys , I just got my 972 from AC4L yesterday . I cant get the OSD to show on my 55 LED . I have tried HDMI and component cables. Also , on the front panel of the unit I dont get any response when I push the monitor output or the setup buttons.
Any suggestions?


----------



## jaymz

Rightbrained said:


> Hey guys , I just got my 972 from AC4L yesterday . I cant get the OSD to show on my 55 LED . I have tried HDMI and component cables. Also , on the front panel of the unit I dont get any response when I push the monitor output or the setup buttons.
> Any suggestions?


There is a menu item that allows you to specify which output (HDMI, Component or Composite) to look at for "monitor out" function. I don't recall what the default is, but you might try the composite connection, too.

On my setup, I also have to switch the TV input to look at the correct HDMI input, then press the setup button on the 972 remote. It takes a few seconds for the menu to appear.

Good luck.

Jim


----------



## Rightbrained

Thanks for the reply Jim.
I havent been able to locate the sub menu for selecting which output type to use on monitor out and that might be the problem.
My tv doesnt have s-video or composite so I am limited to HDMI or component for the OSD.


----------



## jaymz

Rightbrained said:


> Thanks for the reply Jim.
> I havent been able to locate the sub menu for selecting which output type to use on monitor out and that might be the problem.
> My tv doesnt have s-video or composite so I am limited to HDMI or component for the OSD.


The menu setting is in the "System Setup" / "Monitor Output" submenu. Then just toggle thru the choices. Are you sure you have the HDMI cable running from the HDMI *OUTPUT* to a TV HDMI input? Supposedly you can run the setup menu from the receiver display. Then switch the TV so it's looking at the correct HDMI input, press the 972 remote setup button, and wait. It should pop-up.

Jim


----------



## Rightbrained

Yes , I am certain the HDMI monitor output on the 972 is connected to an HDMI input on my tv. 
The thing is ,I dont get any response on the receiver display with using the setup or monitor button on the remote or on the receiver itself.


----------



## jaymz

Yes, that is strange; the 972 display should read "Setup Menu" or something similar. Try a hard reset (described somewhere here, I think), and see if that fixes it.

Jim


----------



## Rightbrained

Jim , 
I tried the hard reset before I made my original post. I am beginning to think I have a defective unit.


----------



## jaymz

Well, I'm out of ideas. Sorry.

Jim


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## Rightbrained

Thanks for the effort !


----------



## tesseract

Installed the unit today. Neither remote worked at first, but now the little IR one turns the unit on, although it turns itself back off seconds later. It comes on as ROOM2 SET >Room2 = OFF, then goes back into standby.

Hooked my universal player up, played some 2 channel. Some info was missing like the AVR was in multi channel mode. I had to use the front panel controls to get anything done.


----------



## ALMFamily

I believe the little remote is only used for "Room 2". It does not seem to do anything for the main listening area (as far as I can tell).

In order to get the big remote to control the unit, make sure to press the "AUD" button on top so it says "Audio" in the display. Really, the remotes are the biggest downside to this unit - they are really, really poor IMO.


----------



## tonyvdb

Ive abandoned my 972 remote and i use my Harmony 880, works just fine with that.


----------



## tesseract

Remote is working, thanks! Set the CD to multi channel, it seems to be playing proper 2 channel now. 

Doesn't want to switch inputs, but I'll figure that out tomorrow. I have a lot to learn. I know... read the instructions. :dumbcrazy:


----------



## tonyvdb

its a little quirky as far as the front panel input is concerned. Im starting t understand how it works but still a bit of a learning curve to it. In the video input settings there are alot of options as to what it defaults to.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
The Remote Control was the main issue with this AVR and I pointed this out on the "I Got a New Toy's" first Post. I have been remiss that I have not mentioned this more, but the value is so good and Trinnov so exceptional that I have lost sight of this issue.
J


----------



## ALMFamily

No worries here JJ - when the worst thing you can say about a unit is that the remote is lacking, that is a good thing!


----------



## tesseract

CD in Stereo mode, my mains do not sound as good as before. While the Newcastle does sound pretty good, I am missing the clarity of the Exposure integrated, the highs are subdued and the image isn't as specific, less air around the performers. I feel the sound does improve after 10-15 minutes of play (warmup).

My subs do sound better, the Dayton SA1000 is liking the LFE feed. Haven't played with the settings, levels or XO FR. I am tired and just want to listen to music. Looking forward to tweaking settings and running Trinnov.


----------



## tonyvdb

tesseract said:


> Looking forward to tweaking settings and running Trinnov.


Have you not run Trinnov? thats why it sounds so flat trust me it will sound far far better after you run Trinnov:T


----------



## tesseract

I am counting on that, Room EQ is the whole reason I undertook this experiment. High tech AVR vs. minimalist audiophile amp.

I will run Trinnov this Friday. Work drains me during the week, and I will have that day off paid. It will be fun.

I am curious, I browsed around the manual, but didn't find XO points for the mains and subs. Just running straight Stereo mode.


----------



## Jungle Jack

tesseract said:


> I am counting on that, Room EQ is the whole reason I undertook this experiment. High tech AVR vs. minimalist audiophile amp.
> 
> I will run Trinnov this Friday. Work drains me during the week, and I will have that day off paid. It will be fun.
> 
> I am curious, I browsed around the manual, but didn't find XO points for the mains and subs. Just running straight Stereo mode.


I really am looking forward to reading your insights. It truly is best to run Trinnov when you have the time to do it in the best possible way. I was honestly shocked just how much a difference using a Tripod was as opposed to using Pillows to approximate Ear Level.


----------



## tesseract

I wonder if there is an adapter that would allow me to attach the probes to my mic boom stand? I understand that the probes need to point upward and the dot goes to the front.


----------



## Jungle Jack

It is essential for the Microphone to be orientated correctly. I simply used Velcro Tape to place the Microphone to the Tripod.


----------



## typ44q

Well I just jumped in and purchased a R972, This will be replacing my old Onkyo 805 and I will be running it in 5.1 for now. I have been reading about Trinnov for years now and even though I was hoping to get it in a new preamp with XLR outputs I just had to jump on the amazing price A4L had it. I should have it in a few days and will report back once I get everything setup


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
With a 3 Year Warranty and it now being $1250 off the MSRP (actually that is for the Open Box 972's/$1200 off MSRP otherwise), this is truly an absolute steal. I personally use my Onkyo Remote to control the 972 as the Remote is absolutely pathetic on the 972. That being said, the Onkyo RC from the 805 can easily learn all of the important functions of the 972.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## typ44q

I agree, I don't see how I could go wrong with with this for $600 (plus the bonus end plates) I use a Harmony 880 remote so I doubt I will even use the factory remote beyond doing the initial setup.


----------



## typ44q

Does anyone know if the owners manual is available online? I would like to read through it before I get the receiver but it looks like Sherwood totally dropped support for this thing including the manual :huh:
Also are there any firmware updates available for this receiver?


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## tonyvdb

Manual is here, If your buying it form Accessories4less then it will have the latest firmware already installed.


----------



## typ44q

Thanks for the link, I found that site but it is only a sales flyer and not the owners manual, 

Sucks that Sherwood pulled it off their main site, is it really that big a deal to keep a few files available for people to download! It's not like this thing is 10 years old, it is 1 generation old!


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## typ44q

I have a question about installing the bass curves, I have the files I picked the +3db and placed it in the root of my USB drive with no other files on the flash drive followed the instructions as far as turning the receiver on, waiting for the click changing to USB waited for the message and inserted the drive in after which it says UPDATING
This message would flash on for about 10 seconds then blink then flash back on over and over. after about 30 minutes I turned it off figuring that it was not doing anything. 

How long should this take?? and did I do something wrong? 
As far as I can tell you can only do 1 file at a time even thought the instructions say to copy ALL of the files to the flash drive.

Thanks


----------



## tonyvdb

After the hex file has been installed via USB you must Turn off the receiver and then hold down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This will reset the receiver to factory. when you power it back on it should default to the tuner. You will then need to re run Trinnov and reset all your labels and other presets you may have changed.


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## typ44q

It never says that it is installed, it just continues to say INSTALLING and never finishes. Is there a message for when it is done? how long should it take?


----------



## typ44q

typ44q said:


> Does anyone know if the owners manual is available online? I would like to read through it before I get the receiver but it looks like Sherwood totally dropped support for this thing including the manual :huh:
> Also are there any firmware updates available for this receiver?


In case anyone else is looking for the English pdf manual online, I found it.

http://www.prillaman.net/sn2007avr/R-972(A)_ENG_090225.pdf


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## tonyvdb

typ44q said:


> It never says that it is installed, it just continues to say INSTALLING and never finishes. Is there a message for when it is done? how long should it take?


If I remember correctly it just stops reading the flash drive. I dont remember if it said anything on the display.


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## StephenR0

I'm considering an R-972, but I need to control it with a JP1 remote. Since Sherwood tech support seems to be down for now (hopefully not forever), I can't get the R-972 ir control codes. Does anyone have this information and could send it to me? Thanks.


----------



## typ44q

tonyvdb said:


> If I remember correctly it just stops reading the flash drive. I dont remember if it said anything on the display.


I re-downloaded the files and tried it again, it worked and only took about 30 seconds and I believe it displayed the message completed or finished. 
Beyond that I am having a more serious problem with the receiver in that when watching recorded content on my Time warner HD cable box. If I am watching a recorded show and then switch back to live TV the video blanks out, no signal being sent to the TV at all but I continue to hear audio, the only way to get the video back is to change video inputs from Video 3 to a different input then back to Video 3 and the picture is fine.
I have the cable box connected using component video with optical audio and is being output to the TV via HDMI.

My firmware is version 1.47i

any ideas?? I would hate to have to send this thing back over this as I do like the receiver and love the sound from it but this makes watching TV extremely frustrating.


----------



## StephenR0

typ44q said:


> My firmware is version 1.47i


Isn't the latest version 1.47v? At least, that's what I've read. I would upgrade before sending it back, although I don't know specifically what has been fixed. You might have trouble getting a response from Sherwood technical support just now. They haven't been responsive since before last week. Curt Hoyt from Trinnov said that he expects them to be more responsive some time this week.


----------



## typ44q

It would make sense that 1.47v is newer than 1.47i. Do you know where to download it from? all I see on the Sherwood site are firmwares for bluray players


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## StephenR0

No, I don't know where to download it. As far as I know, it's only available from Sherwood support. Here's hoping they have a quick recovery.


----------



## typ44q

On page 10 of this thread someone is saying that 1.47i is newer than 1.47v, would be nice if this could be confirmed.


----------



## ALMFamily

Just FYI Mike - I have been seeing the same thing with my unit. It only happens when switching to the DVR and I resolve it the same way - swap to a different video feed and then switch back. I watched the DVR when this happens and I see it pop up a "CONN" reading on the display. Not sure why it works this way either......


----------



## typ44q

Is your DVR connected via component video or HDMI?
I was going to try and connect it using HDMI to see if it was having the same problem.


----------



## ALMFamily

It is connected via HDMI. It is intermittent so I am assuming it has something to do with a HDMI handshake issue and the fact that the DVR is always on. Perhaps I should try turning off the DVR and turning it on only when I am planning to watch cable to see if I see the same issue. I will give that a go as soon as I can and post back......


----------



## typ44q

My DVR is connected using component video so I do not think it is a HDMI problem but something inside the receiver is having an issue when the video signal gets interrupted when switching from a recorded show back to live TV.
I was thinking it was because I was using component video and the receiver was "transferring" it to HDMI to output to the TV but it sounds like you are having the same problem as me with HDMI.


----------



## tonyvdb

An easy fix for this is to run the HDMI from the DVR to the TV and and optical cable for the audio to the receiver.


----------



## typ44q

That would be a work around but I do like the video scaling that the R972 does for the DVR, looks much better than letting the TV do it.


----------



## tonyvdb

Very true. I dont like having to have my receiver on just to watch TV.


----------



## typ44q

For me, I don't ever use the speakers that are built into the TV and most shows use 5.1 audio so I just have everything turn on no matter what I am watching.


----------



## kriskk

Hi all,

Purchased the 972 a couple of weeks ago from A4L. I've been getting picture blackouts periodically - seemed to noticed it more on 1080i blu-rays. Sometimes, when the picture comes back on, it shows up in 480p mode. It's disconcerting. How do I read the numbers on the display so I know which firmware I have? I also set the video mode to bypass, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. I do notice that the red LED for video scaling is always on. Thanks for any help.


----------



## StephenR0

kriskk said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Purchased the 972 a couple of weeks ago from A4L. I've been getting picture blackouts periodically - seemed to noticed it more on 1080i blu-rays. Sometimes, when the picture comes back on, it shows up in 480p mode. It's disconcerting. How do I read the numbers on the display so I know which firmware I have? I also set the video mode to bypass, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. I do notice that the red LED for video scaling is always on. Thanks for any help.


http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...stle-r-972-official-thread-10.html#post503146


----------



## kriskk

StephenR0 said:


> http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...stle-r-972-official-thread-10.html#post503146


Thanks, I'll check it out. Assuming it is the latest version, since I bought it just a few day ago NIB from A4L Still wondering if there is a solution to these black outs. I am using a Samsung CP5500 blu-ray player and an Optoma HD20 projector. My old receiver was a HK 254 which had HDMI 1.3.


----------



## StephenR0

I'm really not sure what's the latest available version. If your version is 1.47i, then I believe it dates from 8/12/2010 based on what was said here:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/for...stle-r-972-official-thread-13.html#post506383

I found this firmware here:

http://wayback.archive.org/web/quer...ual/R-972%201.47.zip&count=40000&start_page=1

So it seems quite old. I would have thought they had fixed some things since then. Apparently, there is a version 1.47v, but I haven't found any detail on what date it was released. It was mentioned here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=21670563&postcount=1026

There was some mention in another forum of a 1.48 version that caused other problems, so the advice was to not install it.


----------



## StephenR0

kriskk said:


> Thanks, I'll check it out. Assuming it is the latest version, since I bought it just a few day ago NIB from A4L Still wondering if there is a solution to these black outs. I am using a Samsung CP5500 blu-ray player and an Optoma HD20 projector. My old receiver was a HK 254 which had HDMI 1.3.


Could you please report back what your version is so we can begin to get an idea what versions have what problems? Thanks.


----------



## tonyvdb

Just for everyone's info I just checked and I have firmware version 1.47I 
It would be interesting to see what others have?

To see your version when receiver is off push Display and Memo/Enter buttons together.


----------



## tesseract

tonyvdb said:


> Just for everyone's info I just checked and I have firmware version 1.47I
> It would be interesting to see what others have?
> 
> To see your version when receiver is off push Display and Memo/Enter buttons together.


HUGE thump when I did this. Made me fear for my speakers and subs, hurt my ears.

Reads 1.47I.


----------



## tonyvdb

Now that you mention the "thump" I also had that but not so bad that it worried me. I wonder if it matters where the volume last was?


----------



## tesseract

Volume was -33 dB. :huh:


----------



## tonyvdb

Ok, last night I was ripping the audio off of a music DVD I have onto my PC. I had the 972 on and the video playing through it to my Sony 40" LCD. 
I had the audio to my PC connected directly to the analog outputs of the BluRay player and during one of the songs my video and audio dropped out for about 5 seconds and came back. The audio from the BluRay player did not as my recording was fine so the 972 definitely has issues with some sort of Handshake.


----------



## ALMFamily

Checked mine just now - I have version 1.47i as well. I did not get the big thump.....


----------



## kriskk

StephenR0 said:


> Could you please report back what your version is so we can begin to get an idea what versions have what problems? Thanks.


Checked the firmware. Got the thump when doing that like another poster mentioned. I have the 1.47I version. I switched the blu-ray player to a Panasonic BP87 from my Samsung 5500. Seems to be behaving a bit better, with quicker HDMI syncing. I need to get the Three Musketeers disc from Redbox that seemed to have the most issues.

Another question - is the onscreen menu supposed to be in 480P? It seems to take a while to load up and sometimes the screen stays blank.


----------



## tonyvdb

kriskk said:


> Another question - is the onscreen menu supposed to be in 480P? It seems to take a while to load up and sometimes the screen stays blank.


Yup, thats fairly normal with the OSD of most receivers. Have not had it stay blank for me yet.


----------



## StephenR0

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm willing to accept that there is no good firmware version later than 1.47i. I guess we can quit looking for 1.47v, since I currently believe that was just a rumor. Thanks for the help with the firmware versions.


----------



## kriskk

Here are a couple of replys from someone representing Sherwood. The original email to Jin (who has apparently left) got rerouted to a Ray Casillas at RMC Sales.

About the 3db and 6db sub boost file:
"A new version of Trinnov 3dB and 6 dB is currently being tested and should be ready with in the next couple of weeks at which time will will have an announcement on the website."

About the HDMI syncing issues:
"I am researching that and from what I am being told is that all new updates will be posted on the website."


----------



## typ44q

I would love to believe that they are going to fix some of the very annoying problems with this receiver but considering that 1.47I is from 2010 I am not getting my hopes up.


----------



## StephenR0

Can you list the problems that you find very annoying? I'm still trying to decide whether to buy this thing or not. I don't expect it to be perfect, but I'm trying to figure out if I can live with it.


----------



## typ44q

StephenR0 said:


> Can you list the problems that you find very annoying? I'm still trying to decide whether to buy this thing or not. I don't expect it to be perfect, but I'm trying to figure out if I can live with it.


The receiver seems to have problems when the audio or video format changes so if you are watching TV and one commercial is dolby digital and the next is not, the audio cuts out for about 4 seconds, this same thing happens when going through the different menus on a movie.
I am also having a problem when watching recorded tv shows, once the show is over and I return back to live TV sometimes (not always) the video blanks out and the only way to get it back is to change the video input (say from video 3 to video 2 then go back to video 3) and the picture will reappear.
These seem like they would be simple to fix with a firmware update but the fact that the product was released like this and has not been fixed makes me believe that they are either not fixable or Sherwood lacks the technical skills to solve these problems. 
These problems would not be acceptable in a $300 receiver let alone a $1,800 flagship receiver.

Having said that I am trying to decide if I want to keep it and just live with the problems or return it and take the loss on shipping (I would be out close to $100, more if they charge a restocking fee) I think this would be a perfect receiver for a home theater that was only used to watch movies on, which I hope to have someday soon. 
I will say that the receiver is very well made (thought not nearly as heavy as my Onkyo 805) audio quality is excellent and the trinnov system really is amazing. I just watched MI Ghost Protocol last night and was blown away by the sound.


----------



## tonyvdb

StephenR0 said:


> Can you list the problems that you find very annoying? I'm still trying to decide whether to buy this thing or not. I don't expect it to be perfect, but I'm trying to figure out if I can live with it.


These are my issues:
1) The remote control is all but useless in the dark and the layout is very poorly done. I use my Harmony 880 instead.
2) The button layout on the front panel is a bid odd and not in the traditional format.
3) As mentioned above it has issues with the handshake and sometimes drops out when resolutions change.
4) You cant edit the Trinnov settings once run without bypassing it completely and doing it manually defeating the purpose of having Trinnov.
5) the jack for the trinnov mic is on the back of the receiver making it difficult to plug in and unplug.

Dont get me wrong, this receiver sounds fantastic and once you get used to it it is very easy to navigate and use. Im keeping mine for my livingroom system and my 805 will remain as my Theater system


----------



## ALMFamily

tonyvdb said:


> These are my issues:
> 1) The remote control is all but useless in the dark and the layout is very poorly done. I use my Harmony 880 instead.
> 2) The button layout on the front panel is a bid odd and not in the traditional format.
> 3) As mentioned above it has issues with the handshake and sometimes drops out when resolutions change.
> 4) You cant edit the Trinnov settings once run without bypassing it completely and doing it manually defeating the purpose of having Trinnov.
> 5) the jack for the trinnov mic is on the back of the receiver making it difficult to plug in and unplug.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, this receiver sounds fantastic and once you get used to it it is very easy to navigate and use. Im keeping mine for my livingroom system and my 805 will remain as my Theater system


Spot on with Tony's assessment - I too am using it in my living room system. Unfortunately, I do not have a Harmony remote and have to live with the Sherwood one.... :sad:


----------



## typ44q

and just to add to this, I agree with everyone else that the remote is rather horrible but I use a harmony so that was not an issue. 
I just listed the issues that I had with it that have me thinking that I might return it, things that annoy me every single time I use it. Everything else to me is minor and can be overlooked, replaced (remote) or is not used often enough to make me not want the receiver (mic jack placement)


----------



## StephenR0

typ44q said:


> and just to add to this, I agree with everyone else that the remote is rather horrible but I use a harmony so that was not an issue.
> I just listed the issues that I had with it that have me thinking that I might return it, things that annoy me every single time I use it. Everything else to me is minor and can be overlooked, replaced (remote) or is not used often enough to make me not want the receiver (mic jack placement)


And that is the spirit in which I meant the question. While I appreciate the rest of the answers, I'm mainly interesting in things that annoy every time you use it. The remote isn't really an issue because I'm kind of addicted to the JP1 remotes. That's why I needed the discrete IR remote codes. I'm sure they're not as easy to program as the Harmony remotes, but they're cheap and flexible. I guess I'm between the R-972 and the Onkyo TX-NR809, although I could wait for the TX-NR818. I guess I could look at the Denon 1712, but I like the fatter amplifiers of the other receivers. I'm still deciding...


----------



## ALMFamily

Well, I have both the 809 and the 972. Of the two, I prefer the 809 as it is 1.4 compatible, has a network connection, and I dont have any of those issues that have been previously discussed.

However, trinnov seems to be able to handle the dynamics of my living room with it's vaulted ceiling and open floor plan better than Audessey does as the Sherwood seems to provide better sound.

If it were me, I would wait to see how the 818 measures out - XT32 (from other comments) sounds like it is worth the wait........


----------



## kriskk

tonyvdb said:


> These are my issues:
> 1) The remote control is all but useless in the dark and the layout is very poorly done. I use my Harmony 880 instead.
> 2) The button layout on the front panel is a bid odd and not in the traditional format.
> 3) As mentioned above it has issues with the handshake and sometimes drops out when resolutions change.
> 4) You cant edit the Trinnov settings once run without bypassing it completely and doing it manually defeating the purpose of having Trinnov.
> 5) the jack for the trinnov mic is on the back of the receiver making it difficult to plug in and unplug.
> 
> Dont get me wrong, this receiver sounds fantastic and once you get used to it it is very easy to navigate and use. Im keeping mine for my livingroom system and my 805 will remain as my Theater system


From what I've read tweaking settings post Trinnov will defeat it's purpose, so that is not a feature. From your list I would only hold #3 against this receiver for the price it is selling for now.


----------



## kriskk

Got the Onkyo 709 and set up Audessey on it in Music mode. Alas, I am underwhelmed with the sound when compared to the R972 with Trinnov. I have a feeling the pre amp section in the 972 is also just plain better. Not sure if there are any good settings for the 709 that I should be targeting to improve the sound. Now I am not so sure about sending the 972 back. If the HDMI sync improves with my new blu-ray player, that might help the cause.


----------



## tonyvdb

Did you run Audessey correctly, meaning putting the mic at ear level on a tripod and measuring at least 4 positions? Dont use any of the music modes, run it in stereo to get a better idea what it will sound like.


----------



## kriskk

tonyvdb said:


> Did you run Audessey correctly, meaning putting the mic at ear level on a tripod and measuring at least 4 positions? Dont use any of the music modes, run it in stereo to get a better idea what it will sound like.


I put the mic on tripod at ear level in my sitting position like I have done with Trinnov. I did not move the mic for each of the four positions, since I rarely move from that position. Should I still move the mic in that case? I'll try stereo this evening and see what happens. To me the sound did not seem as airy, clear and seamless across my speakers like the 972.


----------



## JBrax

kriskk said:


> I put the mic on tripod at ear level in my sitting position like I have done with Trinnov. I did not move the mic for each of the four positions, since I rarely move from that position. Should I still move the mic in that case? I'll try stereo this evening and see what happens. To me the sound did not seem as airy, clear and seamless across my speakers like the 972.


Yes, you want to measure as many positions as allowed. Part of what it's doing is getting a reading of your room. Think of it as mapping your room. I also only have 2 main listening positions but when the kids or guests come over sometimes more. I would do the full 8 positions if I were you.


----------



## tonyvdb

Agreed^^


----------



## ALMFamily

^^^ Agreed +1 - it really helps. I did the same thing on my 809 and noticed better sound when I ran the full process.


----------



## kriskk

JBrax said:


> Yes, you want to measure as many positions as allowed. Part of what it's doing is getting a reading of your room. Think of it as mapping your room. I also only have 2 main listening positions but when the kids or guests come over sometimes more. I would do the full 8 positions if I were you.


Ok, I will try that. Will spend some quality time this weekend to tweak. Thanks.

Has anyone tried 3D movies with the 972? Do they work?


----------



## tonyvdb

It will pass 3D but at a lower resolution. Its better to run the HDMI directly to the display for 3D


----------



## kriskk

tonyvdb said:


> It will pass 3D but at a lower resolution. Its better to run the HDMI directly to the display for 3D


So if I connect the optical out from the blu-ray, I should be able to get DTS HD, etc.? Thanks.


----------



## tonyvdb

no, HDMI is the only way to get DTS MA or Dolby TruHD. You will need a HDMI splitter or a BluRay player that has two HDMI outputs.


----------



## Jungle Jack

All 972's from AC4L will have 1.47 as Mark purchased S/N's remaining stock which were the newest.


----------



## cschang

For those of you that have Bluray handshake issues, try using the HDMI1 connection.

I participate on a couple of R972 threads on another forum (a former Sherwood rep participates, as well as a Trinnov rep who's notes have been referenced here on HTS), and that has seem to do the trick with HDMI issues and BluRay players. Incidentally, I use a Oppo BDP-83, and it worked for me.

I use a FiOS HD DVR on HDMI1 with no issues except for sync'ing the sound codec during some channel changes and commercial breaks...really depends on what is happening with the codec stream, and can be a 2-3 sec delay.

The notes that have been referenced are excellent, and the Trinnov rep is constantly adding to it.

Sherwood has been known to have a pretty good pre/amp section, it holds true with the R-972 (I use external amps). I had a P-965 for a long time, and needed to get on HDMI. I almost went with an Onkyo pre/pro, but this deal came up and I am glad I took the gamble. The unit has its quirks, but none of them have bitten me....or been annoying.

I am VERY pleased with its sound capabilities, Trinnov EQ is very nice, but it is the spatial correction that I think sets it apart. I would not openly recommend the unit because if its quirks/issues...but the cohesiveness of the soundstage/surrounds is pretty amazing.


----------



## tesseract

Glad you could join us, cschang!

Most folks are using this for video/surround. I bought the R-972 to kick off my first foray into surround, but am primarily interested in 2.1 performance. Others have stated that the Newcastle does well with stereo. I would value your opinion on the matter, how do you feel the R-972 and Trinnov do with 2 channel music?

I have not run Trinnov yet, will do so tomorrow. Soon, I want to run REW before/after Trinnov, just for fun.


----------



## tonyvdb

Hey cschang, welcome aboard!

It would be great to have your input on this and other topics here at the Shack. 
I use my 972 for 2.1 channel duty and so far love the sound.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> Glad you could join us, cschang!
> 
> Most folks are using this for video/surround. I bought the R-972 to kick off my first foray into surround, but am primarily interested in 2.1 performance. Others have stated that the Newcastle does well with stereo. I would value your opinion on the matter, how do you feel the R-972 and Trinnov do with 2 channel music?
> 
> I have not run Trinnov yet, will do so tomorrow. Soon, I want to run REW before/after Trinnov, just for fun.





tonyvdb said:


> Hey cschang, welcome aboard!
> 
> It would be great to have your input on this and other topics here at the Shack.
> I use my 972 for 2.1 channel duty and so far love the sound.


Thanks guys..

For 2 channel music I think it does great.

I'm sure it is elsewhere in thread, but what the Trinnov spatial correction attempts to do is correct for proper placement of the speakers to match ITU and cinema standards. This means, for music, is to have the L/R channels 23 degrees off of center. My speakers are already close, but with Trinnov on, some information is still coming from my surrounds, so it creates a more enveloping soundstage...not unlike Dolby PL2 Music(but not the same). I like it, but the down side is that because it is pulling information and redistributing it behind me, it loses a bit of direct treble energy as if it was coming from in front of me.

These are the angles Trinnov tries to reproduce...

Front
ITU = 23(+/- deg), cinema = 30(+/- deg), and of course, center = 0.

Surrounds and backs


> 5.1 ITU = 110 (+/- deg), 5.1 cinema = 135, 6.1 cinema = 135 & 180. 7.1 cinema = 110, 150. ITU/music back angle is most critical of the bunch, as a specific speaker location is used in all ITU mixes. Cinema is not as critical, as it's expected there may be multiple surrounds.


----------



## tesseract

Ran Trinnov today. It sounded a quite thin, so I played with the settings a bit. Settled on:

EQ - Flat
Spatial Mode - None
Remapping - None

Sounds nice and full this way, with more bass. While the timbre is off what I am used to hearing, there is greater clarity.

One big problem I did not have before. Cranking up music near 0 dB causes the Sherwood to distort it's output to the mains and the sub amp greatly,with all speakers put out a horrible humming sound. If I am clipping the Sherwood's amp (unlikely, my mains are extraordinarily efficient), it should go into protection, not distort. I don't ordinarily listen at this level, just messing around. 

Anybody else have this problem?


----------



## tonyvdb

No issue with mine, where did you have the mic placed when you ran trinnov?


----------



## cschang

tess...you should try the +3dB and +6dB bass files.

Interesting that you do not like the spatial and remapping settings. What kind of angles did Trinnov measure? How many speakers do you have?


----------



## kriskk

tesseract said:


> Ran Trinnov today. It sounded a quite thin, so I played with the settings a bit. Settled on:
> 
> EQ - Flat
> Spatial Mode - None
> Remapping - None
> 
> Sounds nice and full this way, with more bass. While the timbre is off what I am used to hearing, there is greater clarity.
> 
> One big problem I did not have before. Cranking up music near 0 dB causes the Sherwood to distort it's output to the mains and the sub amp greatly,with all speakers put out a horrible humming sound. If I am clipping the Sherwood's amp (unlikely, my mains are extraordinarily efficient), it should go into protection, not distort. I don't ordinarily listen at this level, just messing around.
> 
> Anybody else have this problem?


Same here on the thin sound - any active spatial mode setting makes the sound thin w/ very little low bass activity. I haven't tried the bass curve files yet. Does anyone know if these curves activate only in the spatial mode, or apply to all settings?


----------



## cschang

kriskk said:


> Same here on the thin sound - any active spatial mode setting makes the sound thin w/ very little low bass activity. I haven't tried the bass curve files yet. Does anyone know if these curves activate only in the spatial mode, or apply to all settings?


They apply when Trinnov EQ is on for the input.


----------



## cschang

For level matched and proper distance settings...you should have the spatial mode at least set to LVL+DLY (level and delay), otherwise the system is not level matching or setting the delays for any channel. So not calibrated at all.

I suspect this is causing the thin sound with tess's setup...as well as the amp output issues.


----------



## tesseract

tonyvdb said:


> No issue with mine, where did you have the mic placed when you ran trinnov?


I stacked pillows in the listening position, keeping the mic as level as possible, red dot forward.

I know this is a terrible method, but I have only a week left to decide whether to send this back or not, so I ran it. I need to grab some velcro and a level, attaching the probe to my mic boom stand. Hate to buy a tripod just for this probe, I have more than enough gear around here.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> tess...you should try the +3dB and +6dB bass files.
> 
> Interesting that you do not like the spatial and remapping settings. What kind of angles did Trinnov measure? How many speakers do you have?


I might like them if the bass was there. With the settings set "Flat", bass sounds a little hot, just the way I prefer it. I do want LVL+DLY so I can take full advantage of Trinnov. I'll try LVL+DLY and increasing the sub amp gain level. 

Running 2.1. Parameters are:

Front Left - H Angle 18 degrees, V Angle 89 degrees, 3.36 meters
Front Left - -6 dB point 126 Hz, Level -17 dB, Delay 9 ms

Front Right - H Angle -17 degrees, V Angle 89 degrees, 3.43 meters
Front Right - -6 dB point 126 Hz, Level -17 dB, Delay 10 ms

Subwoofer - H angle 0 degrees, V angle 0 degrees, 4.03 meters
Subwoofer - -6 dB point 19 Hz, Level -5 db, Delay 11 ms


----------



## tonyvdb

Pillows will defiantly interfere with the readings. You need to get it away from anything soft or it will dampen the true image it reads. If you have some tie straps you could tie it to the boom stand somehow.


----------



## tesseract

LVL+DLY is on, the imaging is fantastic. Cranked up the gain on the sub amp, still not enough bass. 

Cannot get the distorted output at higher levels, I think you are right about the amp output issues, cschang.


----------



## tesseract

tonyvdb said:


> Pillows will defiantly interfere with the readings. You need to get it away from anything soft or it will dampen the true image it reads. If you have some tie straps you could tie it to the boom stand somehow.


Zip ties would work, also velcro will allow me to remount the probes as needed. I went into this planning to rerun Trinnov sometime later.


----------



## StephenR0

You guys are making me want one! I wish it didn't have the sync issues. I'm such a wimp...


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> LVL+DLY is on, the imaging is fantastic. Cranked up the gain on the sub amp, still not enough bass.
> 
> Cannot get the distorted output at higher levels, I think you are right about the amp output issues, cschang.


Great, but weird about the sub output.

Your angles are on the narrow side. With only two speakers, Trinnov 2D/3D correction won't do anything...there are no other channels to work with to create virtual angles.


----------



## TempTag

Hello all,
Just joined the forum after seeing a link from another R-972 thread. I have seen all the issues that others have noticed and can add:
- Sherwood sent me beta 1.48 which fixed nothing and added audio issues so I reverted to 1.47
- My Comcast box connects slowly but 2 different Sony Blu-ray players and an Apple TV connect almost instantly. I did notice changing the hdmi connection setting for the Comcast cable box to hdmi for audio and video (from auto) seemed to speed hdmi connection times a bit.
- The handshake to my tv is by far the slowest sometimes taking 15 seconds - thought his is only an issue when I turn on the unit.
- I have heard the sub thumb on one sub I own but not another. Unfortunately, the sub that does not thump with the R-972 is grounded and I had bad ground loop issues - so I stuck with the sub that "thumps". (this same sub also has a low rumble when volume is being changed)

Despite all the issue the R-972 sounds great and I LOVE how the Trinnov 3D remapping sounds - so I am sticking with it - at least until another company releases a Trinnov enabled device I can afford...


----------



## TempTag

What resolution is passed for native 1080p 3D content? (I was thinking of moving my R-972 to a room with a 3D tv but maybe I now I won't...)




tonyvdb said:


> It will pass 3D but at a lower resolution. Its better to run the HDMI directly to the display for 3D


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> Great, but weird about the sub output.
> 
> Your angles are on the narrow side. With only two speakers, Trinnov 2D/3D correction won't do anything...there are no other channels to work with to create virtual angles.


I'll get some velcro and rerun Trinnov with the boom tomorrow. Good thing you asked for my parms, I now have them documented here and can compare against what I get tomorrow.


----------



## tonyvdb

TempTag said:


> What resolution is passed for native 1080p 3D content? (I was thinking of moving my R-972 to a room with a 3D tv but maybe I now I won't...)


720p if I remember correctly.


----------



## TempTag

Thanks, with my Passive LG already (I think) showing all 3D in 1080i anyway I think I won't move this receiver...



tonyvdb said:


> 720p if I remember correctly.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> I'll get some velcro and rerun Trinnov with the boom tomorrow. Good thing you asked for my parms, I now have them documented here and can compare against what I get tomorrow.


Your -6dB points are pretty high...that's where it is crossing to the sub.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> Your -6dB points are pretty high...that's where it is crossing to the sub.


Yes, I noticed that, too. Probably contributing to the thin sound, although the subs should roll at that point and are comfortable up to 300 Hz. Audyssey normally sets the SHO-10's for 80-90 Hz, perhaps the pillow mic stand has something to do with this.


----------



## ograma

tesseract said:


> Running 2.1. Parameters are:
> 
> Front Left - H Angle 18 degrees, V Angle 89 degrees, 3.36 meters
> Front Left - -6 dB point 126 Hz, Level -17 dB, Delay 9 ms
> 
> Front Right - H Angle -17 degrees, V Angle 89 degrees, 3.43 meters
> Front Right - -6 dB point 126 Hz, Level -17 dB, Delay 10 ms
> 
> Subwoofer - H angle 0 degrees, V angle 0 degrees, 4.03 meters
> Subwoofer - -6 dB point 19 Hz, Level -5 db, Delay 11 ms


I'm setting up my system with a new R-972, too. From what I've read, you want to set the subwoofer gain to match the other speakers as closely as possible before running the Trinnov Optimizer. As you have it now, your subwoofer is 12 dB louder than your other speakers. The Optimizer is losing some of its ability to room correct because it has to first lower the volume of your subwoofer (This is an oversimplification, but the general idea is correct.). If you want more bass, raise the gain after running the Optimizer.


----------



## Jungle Jack

That is interesting that you do not prefer 3D Remapping and any sort of Spatial Mode. I have run the 972 to Reference, but cannot use the internal amplification due to my Speakers. I did not have issues with my Subwoofer when doing so. I usually playback BD/DVD's between 10 to 15db's below Reference.


----------



## typ44q

cschang said:


> For those of you that have Bluray handshake issues, try using the HDMI1 connection.
> 
> I participate on a couple of R972 threads on another forum (a former Sherwood rep participates, as well as a Trinnov rep who's notes have been referenced here on HTS), and that has seem to do the trick with HDMI issues and BluRay players. Incidentally, I use a Oppo BDP-83, and it worked for me.
> 
> I use a FiOS HD DVR on HDMI1 with no issues except for sync'ing the sound codec during some channel changes and commercial breaks...really depends on what is happening with the codec stream, and can be a 2-3 sec delay.
> 
> The notes that have been referenced are excellent, and the Trinnov rep is constantly adding to it.
> 
> Sherwood has been known to have a pretty good pre/amp section, it holds true with the R-972 (I use external amps). I had a P-965 for a long time, and needed to get on HDMI. I almost went with an Onkyo pre/pro, but this deal came up and I am glad I took the gamble. The unit has its quirks, but none of them have bitten me....or been annoying.
> 
> I am VERY pleased with its sound capabilities, Trinnov EQ is very nice, but it is the spatial correction that I think sets it apart. I would not openly recommend the unit because if its quirks/issues...but the cohesiveness of the soundstage/surrounds is pretty amazing.


I wish my problem was this simple, mine is doing that using component video and HDMI. The video drops out while watching TV from a HD DVR. This sometimes happens when changing channels, switching from recorded content to live TV and has even happened while watching TV without me doing anything. 
When this happens the sound continues to play but the TV does not display anything (gives me a weak or no signal message) which does seem like a HDMI issue to the TV.
So far I have only experienced this while watching TV and not for bluray movies or ROKU content but that could just be because I have not watched enough for it to happen.

As of right now my thought is that I have to return it but I am going to experiment a little longer before I do


----------



## kriskk

cschang said:


> They apply when Trinnov EQ is on for the input.


Hi I did turn on the Spatial modes with Trinnov on the input (Video 1, Position 1). I noticed very slightly better bass with LVL+DLY than the 2D or 3D Remapping modes. But still a far cry from when Spatial Mode is None and Trinnov EQ is turned on. Results look like those that "tesseract" posted. Ran Trinnov multiple times with similar results. I will try to play with my Subwoofer levels a bit more, and then try loading the +6db file. Any other tactics I should try, please let me know.


----------



## tonyvdb

Try moving the mic forward or to the left or right of your listening position. Particularly if your listening position is in a corner or against a rear wall.


----------



## kriskk

tonyvdb said:


> Try moving the mic forward or to the left or right of your listening position. Particularly if your listening position is in a corner or against a rear wall.


Listening position is pretty open on all sides. I have the mic on a short tripod in the middle of a sofa at ear height. I'll try these suggestions. So should the red dot on the mic always point towards the middle of my projection screen, regardless of angle?


----------



## tonyvdb

I would point the red line at the location that centre to your mains.


----------



## cschang

Most seem to like the +3 or +6dB files over the flat.


----------



## NoahKatz

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> Please open the attached zip file and uncompress. Please copy all of the factory.hex files to USB drive root position. (ex. E:\factory.hex)


Tony, thanks very much for the files and instructions.

If all of the bass targets are put on the flash drive, how will the 972 know which one we want?

Anything the matter with putting only the one we want on the flash drive?


----------



## tonyvdb

I just put the one I wanted on the flash drive. Im actually not sure how the receiver reacts to all of them on the flash drive at the same time?


----------



## kriskk

cschang said:


> Most seem to like the +3 or +6dB files over the flat.


Will these curves only apply to the Spatial modes? Reason I ask is in my case the bass is very good when Spatial is not engaged.


----------



## tonyvdb

Nope, its across the board.


----------



## cschang

NoahKatz said:


> Tony, thanks very much for the files and instructions.
> 
> If all of the bass targets are put on the flash drive, how will the 972 know which one we want?
> 
> Anything the matter with putting only the one we want on the flash drive?


It can not distinguish. You need to unpack them all and only put the single file you want on the flash drive.


----------



## cschang

kriskk said:


> Will these curves only apply to the Spatial modes? Reason I ask is in my case the bass is very good when Spatial is not engaged.


That is odd. If Trinnov is engaged, bass response should be the same in all spatial modes.


----------



## kriskk

cschang said:


> That is odd. If Trinnov is engaged, bass response should be the same in all spatial modes.


I have a feeling I need to ensure levels are similar between the speakers first, and then remeasure The sub seems pretty hot at the moment. I have to crack open my ole Radio Shack meter.


----------



## Stereojeff

The bass filters affect the subwoofer output, only. The names were chosen arbitrarily. The "Flat" curve has 3 dB less output than the curve labeled "+3" and 6 dB less output than the curve labeled "+6". It is not necessarily more accurate in your room than the other 2 curves. David Rich insisted that the +6 curve was flat in his room. I thought the "Flat" curve sounded best in Sherwood's listening/conference room. It could be that we are both correct. However, as Dr. Rich has not only academic credentials but science on his side, I now use the +6 dB curve in my home theater.

Jeff


----------



## NoahKatz

cschang said:


> It can not distinguish. You need to unpack them all and only put the single file you want on the flash drive.


Thanks for clearing that up


----------



## bonfi

Hi (please excuse my errors and confusion - I'm both a newbie and using a foreign language)
I have a quick question on the r972 room2 control; with:
1. a 5.1 set-up
2. the room 2 line-out connected to another amp -which will remain at a fixed level-
3. nothing connected to the room 2 speakers,
does the room 2 volume control have any effect?

i.e. is the room 2 line-out variable or fixed?

-thank you

Read more: room 2 control - Home Theater Forum and Systems - HomeTheaterShack.com


----------



## cschang

bonfi said:


> Hi (please excuse my errors and confusion - I'm both a newbie and using a foreign language)
> I have a quick question on the r972 room2 control; with:
> 1. a 5.1 set-up
> 2. the room 2 line-out connected to another amp -which will remain at a fixed level-
> 3. nothing connected to the room 2 speakers,
> does the room 2 volume control have any effect?
> 
> i.e. is the room 2 line-out variable or fixed?


It's variable.


----------



## bonfi

cschang said:


> It's variable.


Thanks for the info and prompt reply.


----------



## tesseract

Reran Trinnov 3 times with the SHO-10's, same result. Looks like Trinnov may have issues with high sensitivity speakers. Audyssey Multi EQ has the same issues. 

I did dial down the subs to within 1 dB of the mains during calibration, still get the humming at high volumes.

Switched to the TCA WAF-1's, -6 dB point is 71 Hz for both L/R speakers. Bass is non existent no matter which speakers I use, the LFE output is ridiculously low. I have to crank my sub amp gain up ridiculously high to compensate. The only way to get satisfactory bass is to set the Spatial Mode to "None", Room EQ to "Flat". :rolleyesno:

$84 in shipping fees as well as a 15% restocking fee if I return this. Major bummer.


----------



## tonyvdb

Are you just using 2.1 channels? Spacial mode and 3D/2D remap only works if you have a full 5.1 or more speaker setup. In 2.1 channel mode I have spacial mode off and room eq flat as well and its sounds great. No hum.


----------



## tesseract

Thanks, Tony. "Flat" with no Spatial is better, just playing with the other settings. It sounds like surround users are getting reduced bass with the 2D-3D mapping, just wanted to check it out.

Reran calibration, until the subs were 3 dB hotter than the mains. Cranked the gain another 3 dB or so on the sub amp, it does sound much better. No hum even at +5 dB on the AVR, which is much louder than I normally listen.

I'll give it some time to grow on me.


----------



## cschang

Surround users are not getting reduced bass. The user that had the problem was not getting a good sub reading during measurements. He corrected it and now is very happy. He posted in the other forum. The key is making sure the unit is making proper calculations. It seem you are having the same problem with gain on the sub amp being too low. 

Trinnov spatial correction or remapping is of no real use for those that just have a 2.0 or 2.1 setup.

For those that have a 5.1 or 7.1 setup and listen in 2.1 with spatial correction and remap, the system will use the other speakers to correct for speaker placement angles. You will hear some information coming from the other channels. It provides a very spacious and open sound. 

Tess, with only 2 speakers, IMO, you are not benefitting from Trinnov's power.


----------



## tesseract

Running 2.1 for now, the plan is to eventually go to 4.1. If I cannot get satisfactory sound for 2.1, I might not bother.


----------



## typ44q

I have a question about the video scaling on this receiver. If I have it set to upconvert everything to 1080p, such as the cable box but I also have a 1080p source (bluray player) is it doing anything with that signal?

I really wish you could set the scaling per input.


----------



## tonyvdb

If its already 1080p it will leave it untouched.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> Running 2.1 for now, the plan is to eventually go to 4.1. If I cannot get satisfactory sound for 2.1, I might not bother.


Ahh! There is another potential issue....on the other forum, someone had a problem with a 4.1 configuration and could not get it to work properly. You should research that.


----------



## typ44q

tonyvdb said:


> If its already 1080p it will leave it untouched.


Thanks, that is good to know!


----------



## kriskk

Update on my progress. I posted this on the other forum's Trinnov thread as well:

"Success! I finally had to keep the subwoofer level just barely high enough that it would register on the Trinnov mic. This brought the sub level on par with the rest of the speakers. My room must be reinforcing some of the bass harmonics. Once the computation was done, I turned on Flat+3D and raised the sub level dial about 6db. Now I am getting the most mesmerizing presentation I have ever heard. I watched the clips from the Disney WOW blu-ray, and I am still speechless. For the first time I've felt like I am being physically immersed into whatever movie I am watching. All credit to Trinnov and the solid pre-amp/amp on this receiver. Thanks to all for the help."


----------



## tonyvdb

Thats great that you got it to work so well. How low did you end up running the level on the sub during Trinnov?


----------



## cschang

For me....I got the gain on the sub amp so it was detected when Trinnov sent its tone. Any less, and Trinnov would not get a good reading.

Incidentally, if Trinnov sends more than three tones to a channel during calibration, then it is having some sort of trouble with that channel...it may still be fine...but if it only sends three, then you know you are good to go.


----------



## Stereojeff

cschang said:


> For me....I got the gain on the sub amp so it was detected when Trinnov sent its tone. Any less, and Trinnov would not get a good reading.
> 
> Incidentally, if Trinnov sends more than three tones to a channel during calibration, then it is having some sort of trouble with that channel...it may still be fine...but if it only sends three, then you know you are good to go.


Actually 3 chirps is the minimum. 10 chirps means that the Trinnov module could not accurately locate the speaker. Anything less than 10 and you should be good to go. You can determine if you have the data you need to re-map by looking at the results table. If each speaker (except the subwoofer) has a horizontal and vertical angle then you have sufficient data for remapping. In the rare instance where the Trinnov module could not locate every speaker all is not lost. You can still engage Trininov's very power IR + FIR EQ and get huge improvement in the sound of your system. 

Jeff


----------



## cschang

Stereojeff said:


> Actually 3 chirps is the minimum. 10 chirps means that the Trinnov module could not accurately locate the speaker. Anything less than 10 and you should be good to go. You can determine if you have the data you need to re-map by looking at the results table. If each speaker (except the subwoofer) has a horizontal and vertical angle then you have sufficient data for remapping. In the rare instance where the Trinnov module could not locate every speaker all is not lost. You can still engage Trininov's very power IR + FIR EQ and get huge improvement in the sound of your system.


Thanks Jeff!


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> Ahh! There is another potential issue....on the other forum, someone had a problem with a 4.1 configuration and could not get it to work properly. You should research that.


Thanks, cschang. I did a little reading before the purchase, I believe the workaround is to place a center when running calibration, then remove it.


----------



## tesseract

kriskk said:


> "Success! I finally had to keep the subwoofer level just barely high enough that it would register on the Trinnov mic. This brought the sub level on par with the rest of the speakers.


Good job. I managed the same thing last night, although it did keep pinging the sub. Parameters show the sub at +3 dB over the mains, I kicked it up a bit more on the sub amp for a fuller sound.



Stereojeff said:


> Actually 3 chirps is the minimum. 10 chirps means that the Trinnov module could not accurately locate the speaker. Anything less than 10 and you should be good to go. You can determine if you have the data you need to re-map by looking at the results table. If each speaker (except the subwoofer) has a horizontal and vertical angle then you have sufficient data for remapping. In the rare instance where the Trinnov module could not locate every speaker all is not lost. You can still engage Trininov's very power IR + FIR EQ and get huge improvement in the sound of your system.
> 
> Jeff


Useful information, thank you. Lots of pings to the sub last calibration, I didn't count them but it did concern me. No H or V angle readings, and it sounds good.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> Thanks, cschang. I did a little reading before the purchase, I believe the workaround is to place a center when running calibration, then remove it.


It was to place a rear center when calibrating, but it was also pointed out that it will cause problems when it is removed.

Just trying to caution you before you decide to keep it, and it turns out not to work correctly for you. You will have a "fringe" test case on a pretty complicated correction system, so I recommend proceeding with a high amount of skepticism.


----------



## RTPBob

*Need some trouble shooting ideas..*

Posted this on the other forum and thought you folks might be able to provide some thoughts.

I wanted some extra watts for my speakers so bought an external amplifier to add to my system. Everything seemed to be working fine for one bright shining moment...then the problems started.

I can run the system and its fine. Then the next day I have no center channel. So I start trouble shooting and the sound comes back when I swap the interconnect between the Sherwood and amp. Working fine...next day...no center channel. Swap the old interconnect back..working fine...next day no center channel. Seems to be the center channel output connector on the Sherwood..but don't know how to check that.

Next issue is I think I'm smart so I connect the center channel speaker directly to the Sherwood. Center channel works fine...but no sound from the side or surround speakers.

Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, insights would be appreciated. :scratch:

But, I do LOVE the sound field when its working right.

Thanks for any help.


----------



## tonyvdb

What mode are you running it in when you have no centre channel sound? is this during movies?


----------



## Jungle Jack

typ44q said:


> I have a question about the video scaling on this receiver. If I have it set to upconvert everything to 1080p, such as the cable box but I also have a 1080p source (bluray player) is it doing anything with that signal?
> 
> I really wish you could set the scaling per input.


As Tony said. The HQV Reon Processor is actually quite good and was used in Onkyo's 2 most expensive AVR's until the current x09 Series where starting with the 809, Onkyo is using the HQV Vida alongside the Marvell Qdeo.
So anything that is native 1080p, it will not be touched and the same goes for any Sources that Upsample to 1080p.


----------



## cschang

RTPBob said:


> Posted this on the other forum and thought you folks might be able to provide some thoughts.
> 
> I wanted some extra watts for my speakers so bought an external amplifier to add to my system. Everything seemed to be working fine for one bright shining moment...then the problems started.
> 
> I can run the system and its fine. Then the next day I have no center channel. So I start trouble shooting and the sound comes back when I swap the interconnect between the Sherwood and amp. Working fine...next day...no center channel. Swap the old interconnect back..working fine...next day no center channel. Seems to be the center channel output connector on the Sherwood..but don't know how to check that.
> 
> Next issue is I think I'm smart so I connect the center channel speaker directly to the Sherwood. Center channel works fine...but no sound from the side or surround speakers.
> 
> Any thoughts, ideas, suggestions, insights would be appreciated. :scratch:
> 
> But, I do LOVE the sound field when its working right.
> 
> Thanks for any help.


In the System Setup, make sure the HDMI Audio Output is set to OFF.

I would also consider a reset.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> It was to place a rear center when calibrating, but it was also pointed out that it will cause problems when it is removed.
> 
> Just trying to caution you before you decide to keep it, and it turns out not to work correctly for you. You will have a "fringe" test case on a pretty complicated correction system, so I recommend proceeding with a high amount of skepticism.


I'm gonna keep it. While the Sherwood is not quite as transparent as my Exposure integrated, the Sherwood's bass management system and active high pass crossovers give it other advantages that makes the comparison a wash. Turned Trinnov off and played with the Speaker/Listening Setup. Put on some SACD and DVD-A. This is the first time I have found myself drawn into the Sherwood's "sound", and I don't even have my best pair of speakers hooked up. 

Also, I feel that if I am going to have a surround system, this is the receiver to base it on. I want a seamless surround experience for Hi Rez surround music playback, and Trinnov is the way to do it. Hopefully I'll have better luck with the Optimizer than I did with 2.1 channel.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> I'm gonna keep it. While the Sherwood is not quite as transparent as my Exposure integrated, the Sherwood's bass management system and active high pass crossovers give it other advantages that makes the comparison a wash. Turned Trinnov off and played with the Speaker/Listening Setup. Put on some SACD and DVD-A. This is the first time I have found myself drawn into the Sherwood's "sound", and I don't even have my best pair of speakers hooked up.
> 
> Also, I feel that if I am going to have a surround system, this is the receiver to base it on. I want a seamless surround experience for Hi Rez surround music playback, and Trinnov is the way to do it. Hopefully I'll have better luck with the Optimizer than I did with 2.1 channel.


Great...just do 5.1 and not 4.1.

Just to reiterate, the Optimizer is of no real use, other than EQ, in a 2.1 configuration, sp I'm not sure why you considered yourself to have bad luck with it.


----------



## RTPBob

*Problem solved...I think*

Ok, I think I got this one fixed..hopefully.

Next time I went down to use it I had lost both back channels. Frustrated, I pulled out the interconnects. I had used an couple of sets of middle level (gold plugs, thicker wire) that I had used in an earlier installation. Replaced them with sets of the cheap, comes with normal electronics (tin plugs, skinny wire) I had laying around and everything worked fine. Still working after two days. If it works for a week this way, I'll order new sets from Monoprice and install some good ones.

Part of me says this can't be the real problem, but I'll just have to play it by ear and see if it keeps working.

Hopefully, I can get back to just enjoying listening to it.

Bob


----------



## typ44q

Is anyone actually using the video scaling feature of this receiver? It seems most people have it set to bypass but I was wondering if anyone is using it and with what type of equipment. 
My time warner cable box when connected with HDMI or component cables and with the receiver set to auto or 1080p output will only display a picture for a few minutes before I get a half black half snow screen or the signal totally cuts out and I get a signal lost error on the tv.

I have tried to contact sherwood tech support but they have never called me back so I am guessing we are on our own with this thing. 

I still have about a week before I can send it back and I keep going back and forth on if I should keep it or not.


----------



## ALMFamily

I am not using it - hope you get a solution as I have been pleased with the unit so far.


----------



## tonyvdb

I have mine set to upscale everything and so far its worked good. I use my WDTV media player with it all the time and its never dropped the signal yet. I did have my bluray player drop out but Im convinced its the player not the receiver as I had it do it on my other receiver as well. (Its an old Samsung 1400)


----------



## typ44q

I am going to change the output on my ROKU from 1080p to 720p and then try to upscale that using the receiver and see what happens. Maybe it is just something about the cable box it does not like.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> Great...just do 5.1 and not 4.1.
> 
> Just to reiterate, the Optimizer is of no real use, other than EQ, in a 2.1 configuration, sp I'm not sure why you considered yourself to have bad luck with it.


EQ flattened the sound, it sounds much better without it.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> EQ flattened the sound, it sounds much better without it.


Ahhh....interesting.

Must be the speakers. :bigsmile:

Try Audiophile.2 and see how you like it. That setting only EQ's 300hz and below.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> Ahhh....interesting.
> 
> Must be the speakers. :bigsmile:
> 
> Try Audiophile.2 and see how you like it. That setting only EQ's 300hz and below.


What is interesting is the lines the Sherwood puts on my HDTV screen after I exit the setup menu. 

The WAF-1's are pretty good speakers, while not as good as the SHO-10's, I don't know why you would assume they are the problem. 

I did try the Audiophile 2 setting to avoid eq'ing much above the Schroeder frequency. It is better than flat, not as good as off. Dynamics seem a bit squashed.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> What is interesting is the lines the Sherwood puts on my HDTV screen after I make menu changes.
> 
> The WAF-1's are pretty good speakers, while not as good as the SHO-10's, I don't know why you would assume they are the problem.
> 
> I did try the Audiophile 2 setting to avoid eq'ing much above the Schroeder frequency. It is better than flat, not as good as off. Dynamics seem a bit squashed.


Guess you didn't see the smilie. One thing, IMO, the WAF-1 is not a very dynamic speaker to begin with. Perhaps with the smoothed out bass in regards to your room makes them seem less dynamic.

Seems like you are having a lot of different little issues. No lines on my TV.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> Guess you didn't see the smilie. One thing, IMO, the WAF-1 is not a very dynamic speaker to begin with. Perhaps with the smoothed out bass in regards to your room makes them seem less dynamic.


The WAF-1's wouldn't be a factor when listening to levels below 90 dB peak. More likely, Trinnov smoothed the bass, as you said. Could be the DSP truncates dynamics? SPL meter reads the same on the top, appears that the floor is raised a couple of dB. I'll know more when I start REW.



> Seems like you are having a lot of different little issues. No lines on my TV.


Must be the speakers. onder: 

The lines come and go. Turning the Sherwood's setup menu on and off fixes it. Many issues are me getting used to my first AVR. I still haven't tried my Blu Ray player, been enjoying music so much.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> The WAF-1's wouldn't be a factor when listening to levels below 90 dB peak. More likely, Trinnov smoothed the bass, as you said. Could be the DSP truncates dynamics? SPL meter reads the same on the top, appears that the floor is raised a couple of dB. I'll know more when I start REW.


Of all the experiences I have read, yours would be the first in lost dynamics due to the R972. How will you measure a raised noise floor? Do you hear a difference in quiet passages with your music...or speaker hiss? Maybe your are just inexperienced with an EQ'd setup.



tesseract said:


> The lines come and go. Turning the Sherwood's setup menu on and off fixes it. Many issues are me getting used to my first AVR. I still haven't tried my Blu Ray player, been enjoying music so much.


That is probably a HDMI handshake issue. When I use the setup screen, I occasionally get a blank screen when I exit. Going back into the setup screen remedies that.

As far as getting used the issues due to the R972 being your first AVR, the R972's usability and friendliness leave much to be desired compared to current AVRs. It is its sound that has people living with it.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> Of all the experiences I have read, yours would be the first in lost dynamics due to the R972. How will you measure a raised noise floor? Do you hear a difference in quiet passages with your music...or speaker hiss?


No hiss, the amplifier noise floor is not raised. Thinking I heard reduced dynamics, I did comparo with a digital Rat Shack meter, watching the bottom number with both settings. Ran Audiophile 2 and Trinnov off three times each. 2 dB difference consistently, with music, playing the same passages over and over. Most likely, it is the difference between EQ smoothing and none.



> That is probably a HDMI handshake issue. When I use the setup screen, I occasionally get a blank screen when I exit. Going back into the setup screen remedies that.
> 
> As far as getting used the issues due to the R972 being your first AVR, the R972's usability and friendliness leave much to be desired compared to current AVRs. It is its sound that has people living with it.


Yes, I really like the sound, and appreciate what the Sherwood's low/high pass XO's do for my system.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> No hiss, the amplifier noise floor is not raised. Thinking I heard reduced dynamics, I did comparo with a digital Rat Shack meter, watching the bottom number with both settings. Ran Audiophile 2 and Trinnov off three times each. 2 dB difference consistently, with music, playing the same passages over and over. Most likely, it is the difference between EQ smoothing and none.


So you set Trinnov EQ to None or Audiophile.2, and the spatial mode to LVL+DLY?



tesseract said:


> Yes, I really like the sound, and appreciate what the Sherwood's low/high pass XO's do for my system.


You realize that the XO is done via DSP...right?


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> So you set Trinnov EQ to None or Audiophile.2, and the spatial mode to LVL+DLY?


Left the Spatial mode off, it was posted earlier that Spatial is of no use in 2.1. Went to the menu to turn it on, the background is pink instead of blue. :huh: So far is sounds great, with reduced bass levels. I'll give it more time, later. It's time for my chica and I to celebrate Cinco de Mayo. :yay: :yay:



> You realize that the XO is done via DSP...right?


Yes, but this might be comparing apples to oranges in a way.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> Left the Spatial mode off, it was posted earlier that Spatial is of no use in 2.1. Went to the menu to turn it on, the background is pink instead of blue. :huh: So far is sounds great, with reduced bass levels. I'll give it more time, later. It's time for my chica and I to celebrate Cinco de Mayo. :yay: :yay:
> 
> Yes, but this might be comparing apples to oranges in a way.


3d and 2d spatial modes do nothing in 2.1. LVL+DLY sets the channel levels and distance, and will have an effect in 2.1. This was also mentioned. 

No disrespect, but It seems that your lack of understanding on how the system works may also be of some hindrance for you getting the best results.


----------



## StephenR0

I don't have an R-972, but I've thought a lot about it. I'm curious, Curt Hoyt mentions a "W" configuration in his app notes for the front speakers. If I understand this right, this would be a high center speaker, two low left and right speakers, and two high further left and right speakers. Would it be possible to use this configuration to create a virtual 2.1 configuration with a better sound stage than just having two front speakers?


----------



## cschang

StephenR0 said:


> I don't have an R-972, but I've thought a lot about it. I'm curious, Curt Hoyt mentions a "W" configuration in his app notes for the front speakers. If I understand this right, this would be a high center speaker, two low left and right speakers, and two high further left and right speakers. Would it be possible to use this configuration to create a virtual 2.1 configuration with a better sound stage than just having two front speakers?


"Better" would be subjective since music is not recorded that way, but it can definitely be done.


----------



## tesseract

cschang said:


> 3d and 2d spatial modes do nothing in 2.1. LVL+DLY sets the channel levels and distance, and will have an effect in 2.1. This was also mentioned.
> 
> No disrespect, but It seems that your lack of understanding on how the system works may also be of some hindrance for you getting the best results.


I'm not using 2D or 3D, LVL+DLY is not difficult to understand and I did try it a week or two ago. Trying it again, I get the same results, greatly reduced bass levels. I shut Trinnov off and set distance and sub level manually.

I'll try it again when I am setup for 5.1. There are people that are satisfied with Trinnov 4.1, I may try that as well.


----------



## cschang

tesseract said:


> I'm not using 2D or 3D, LVL+DLY is not difficult to understand and I did try it a week or two ago. Trying it again, I get the same results, greatly reduced bass levels. I shut Trinnov off and set distance and sub level manually.
> 
> I'll try it again when I am setup for 5.1. There are people that are satisfied with Trinnov 4.1, I may try that as well.


Are you getting a good sub measurement during the Trinnov setup? What does it say for the sub measurement?


----------



## sub_crazy

Anyone compare the R-972 to a Onkyo with Audyssey XT32? 

I have been reading up on Trinnov and at the current price of the 972 it might be worth a comparison.


----------



## sub_crazy

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Jungle Jack said:


> Tony,
> I am so glad you are pleased with the 972. The longer I have it, the more I am convinced it is one the greatest values for an AVR I have ever come across and truly feel blessed to have one.
> Cheers,
> J


J,

So you replaced your 3008 with the 972?


----------



## sub_crazy

OK, what the .

I went ahead and ordered a 972 as the Trinnov processing was too intriguing to pass up at the price. 

Probably wont have a chance to try it out for at least a week after it gets here but at least my curiosity will eventually be quenched. 

You guys are bad influences:yes:


----------



## tesseract

If I wouldn't have ordered the R-972, there would always be the question "what if".

I am mostly interested in surround music reproduction, the Sherwood is said to to have seamless transition from speaker to speaker. It also helps compensate for less than optimal placement, which is important for rooms which are not dedicated theaters.

Hope you enjoy, sub_crazy!


----------



## sub_crazy

Good point, I wanted to answer the "what if" question as well.

Did you get your 972 already tesseract? 

I hope you enjoy it as well.


----------



## cschang

sub_crazy said:


> OK, what the .
> 
> I went ahead and ordered a 972 as the Trinnov processing was too intriguing to pass up at the price.
> 
> Probably wont have a chance to try it out for at least a week after it gets here but at least my curiosity will eventually be quenched.
> 
> You guys are bad influences:yes:


Read this thread and threads on other forums to get a good idea of the problems and issues that might arise. It will give you a good understanding of the unit and how to deal with it. 

The R972 sounds great, you just to be willing to deal with its quirks and give it what it needs.


----------



## sub_crazy

I haven't had a chance to look over this thread yet except for the first 2 pages, I did flip through the other thread a bit more.

I gathered that if the 972 is going into a movie only type system that most of the quirks won't be so bad, is that a fair assessment?


----------



## typ44q

sub_crazy said:


> I haven't had a chance to look over this thread yet except for the first 2 pages, I did flip through the other thread a bit more.
> 
> I gathered that if the 972 is going into a movie only type system that most of the quirks won't be so bad, is that a fair assessment?


I would say that is a very fair assessment. Turn the unit on, watch your movie and turn it off and you will think it is just a regular ARV with amazing sound. Watch TV with it where the audio stream is constantly changing and it might drive you crazy. The big exception to this is if you watch everything recorded or buffered through a DVR because then you are skipping the commercials and avoiding the changing audio feeds.
And there is the added annoyance of the excessively long start up time but that is not so bad as you only have to sit through it once each time you turn the AVR on.

And then there is my problem of the video scaler not working but if you are feeding it a 1080p signal all should be fine.


----------



## cschang

sub_crazy said:


> I haven't had a chance to look over this thread yet except for the first 2 pages, I did flip through the other thread a bit more.
> 
> I gathered that if the 972 is going into a movie only type system that most of the quirks won't be so bad, is that a fair assessment?





typ44q said:


> I would say that is a very fair assessment. Turn the unit on, watch your movie and turn it off and you will think it is just a regular ARV with amazing sound. Watch TV with it where the audio stream is constantly changing and it might drive you crazy. The big exception to this is if you watch everything recorded or buffered through a DVR because then you are skipping the commercials and avoiding the changing audio feeds.
> 
> And then there is my problem of the video scaler not working but if you are feeding it a 1080p signal all should be fine.


I'm in agreement with typ44q.

Even on a Bluray disc, when there are breaks in the CODEC, such as in between previews or other ads, it may take time to resync.

The same goes when watching TV. Some channels are worse than others. My kids have not complained, so that seems to be a good indication that it isn't a big deal.


----------



## Jungle Jack

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



sub_crazy said:


> J,
> 
> So you replaced your 3008 with the 972?


Sort of. I have been going back and forth between the 2 as I do think XT32/SubEQ HT does a better job of integrating the 2 Subwoofers I am using. While the design on the 2 Subwoofers is quite similar, one uses (3) 10 Inch Woofers and the other uses 8 Inch Woofers. In addition, the Descent i uses an Amplifier for each Woofer and the Depth uses a single Amplifier to drive all 3 Woofers.

So with this being the case, SubEQ HT does a simply fantastic job of making the 2 Subwoofers sound seamless. If I owned 2 Descent i's or 2 Depth's, I would most likely use the 972 exclusively as I do think Trinnov does a better job on the Loudspeakers and I have a PS3 and OPPO for steaming Music from my PC and Pandora. The only real loss when using the 972 is not having vTuner. And truth be told, I have used the Net/USB part on my Onkyo at most 5-10% of the time so it is not a major deal to me.


----------



## sub_crazy

Thanks for all the replies.

The 972 is in transit and I should get it by Friday. I won't have a chance to try it out until next week though as the weekend is full. 

Once I have a chance to compare it to my Onkyo 5508 or 3008 in my downstairs system I will report back. 

I do find it doubtful the Trinnov will do as good as XT32 for the subs, it almost looks like a joke when I look at how flat the response is with my subs. I really just want to hear what it does with the rest of the system and Trinnov is really intriguing. 

Thanks again for the responses.


----------



## cschang

Also keep in mind that the Trinnov setup in the R972 only optimizes for one position, not an average of positions like Audessey.

The expensive, standalone Trinnov systems allow you to take measurements from multiple positions, weight them to importance, and then calculate a correction.

IMO, the key to Trinnov is the spatial correction, not EQ...although it is quite good.


----------



## kriskk

The sub setup was a little finicky. But, once I dialed it in, it sounds seamless. You will get so much more with the EQ and spatial correction IMO, that the Audyssey comparison will be moot.




sub_crazy said:


> Thanks for all the replies.
> 
> The 972 is in transit and I should get it by Friday. I won't have a chance to try it out until next week though as the weekend is full.
> 
> Once I have a chance to compare it to my Onkyo 5508 or 3008 in my downstairs system I will report back.
> 
> I do find it doubtful the Trinnov will do as good as XT32 for the subs, it almost looks like a joke when I look at how flat the response is with my subs. I really just want to hear what it does with the rest of the system and Trinnov is really intriguing.
> 
> Thanks again for the responses.


----------



## sub_crazy

Fed-Ex Ground rocks

The R-972 arrived a day early so it gave me time to install it today as it was the only day that wasn't swamped for about a week. Put it first into the 2.1 channel system to make sure it works and it sounded fine. Even ran Trinnov but I don't think 2.1 channel is what will make Trinnov shine I guess because it didn't sound much different but it still sounded good. 

Took it into the 6.1 channel system, usually 7.1 with wides but I decided to skip the wides and add a single back surround instead. I should have run a reset before running Trinnov but I forgot. Ran through the whole Trinnov set-up 3 times until I finally got 0 degrees for the center and hit compute. Thought I was done so I started listening to my usual test tracks and it sounded off. Looked at the front panel display and it read 2 channel down convert or something like that but I could hear information coming out of the surrounds. Remembered about the reset so I did that and ran Trinnov again and hit 0 degrees on the first shot this time and computed. This time it came out correct and it sounds pretty good, the speakers blend together nicely and you can't really pinpoint the location of the speakers. 

It is a finicky receiver though and I can see how others would give up easily based on it's quibbles. 

Jack had mentioned before that XT32 does a better job on the subs and that I can second. The subs did sound good though but the measured response was not close to what XT32 comes up with. I do like what I hear so far though but I had to stop as I think I had the volume up too loud and now my head is asking for a break. I am hoping it is just a headache from the hassles of setting up the 972 and not listener fatigue which I have gotten with a descent # of audio equipment over the years. I still need to listen to some music in the 6.1 channel system but I may have had enough for tonight and I may not have a chance to listen again until Tuesday night when I get some more free time.

I do want to try out the 6db sub boost file but I had read on another forum that you do not need to re-run Trinnov, anyone know about this? I am up to about page 21 on this thread but haven't read that yet. 

I need some some aspirin, my head is pounding from trying to figure out why I lose video on my SMS-1 sometimes when I am trying to set my sub levels:duh:


----------



## cschang

sub_crazy said:


> I do want to try out the 6db sub boost file but I had read on another forum that you do not need to re-run Trinnov, anyone know about this? I am up to about page 21 on this thread but haven't read that yet.


No...you do not need to rerun Trinnov. There are also instruction floating around that say to do a reset after loading the file...don't do that either.


----------



## sub_crazy

cschang said:


> No...you do not need to rerun Trinnov. There are also instruction floating around that say to do a reset after loading the file...don't do that either.


Phew, what a relief.

So I just load the desired bass target onto a USB drive, select the USB input and connect the USB drive and remove once it says install completed or something? 

I would try it tonight but of course I left all my USB drives at the office.


----------



## cschang

sub_crazy said:


> Phew, what a relief.
> 
> So I just load the desired bass target onto a USB drive, select the USB input and connect the USB drive and remove once it says install completed or something?
> 
> I would try it tonight but of course I left all my USB drives at the office.


Yup...that's pretty much it.

Here's what I got for instructions:

"Please copy any of those factory.hex files to USB drive root position. (ex. E:\factory.hex)
To update this firmware, turn ON the 972 and wait for relay click. Once you hear the relay click, change the input to USB. When NO DEVICE displayed, please insert the USB drive to the front USB slot.

Update will automatically start."
I forget what it says when it's finished, but you will know. Just turn unit off and on.


----------



## sub_crazy

Thank you:T


----------



## sub_crazy

I did listen to some other tracks tonight including music. The music sounded good but I wouldn't say as good as the Onkyo 5508 it replaced. I seamed to notice that the music lost a little detail compared to the 5508 but that could just be in my head as I can't a/b them. My earlier headache also might have contributed to what I was hearing but it was gone and I was in good spirit's when I decided to give it another shot. It does sound good though but I didn't find my-self getting lost in the music which is when I know I have something I like. 

I put on the Dolby TrueHD demo and I had to turn on Cinema EQ, I actually never use it on anything else but I was starting to get another headache from excess treble. I actually decided to turn off the spatial EQ and that really does make a difference but there are also volume changes that I noticed when running SMS-1 tests. It's much lower in volume with spatial EQ on 3-d than without, I should have marked down the difference but I would say it was in the 3db range. One thing that was really apparent with spatial EQ off was the subs, they were bloated and boomy which wasn't what I was expecting at all. All around turning off the spatial EQ was not good.

There still is that way it makes all the speakers disappear, last time I heard that was with the Halcro SSP-200. I also don't miss the DSX wides at all but to be fair they didn't add much in this room anyway. 

I really want to like this as the way all the speakers blend together is really cool. It would have to be the dedicated movie system though as the audio drop-out's when it changes codecs would drive me crazy while watching TV.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Mike,
Going from something like the XT32 equipped 5508 might make for a difficult matchup for the 972. In addition, the 5508 retails for hundreds more than the 972 so I can see why you might not be as pleased with the 972.
However, in a challenging Acoustic Space, I really think Trinnov can work some magic and compared to up to $1000 AVR's, I really think it holds its own.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## sub_crazy

Your right Jack, the 5508 to 972 is not a fair comparison but it's close considering the 972's intended $1,800 retail price.

I really just need more time to listen to the 972 but there were some things I thought it did better than the 5508. I was a bit rushed yesterday as I knew if I didn't get it going that I wouldn't have the time until next week. 

The 972 definitely has a more enveloping sound to it with 3-D Trinnov engaged than the 5508 in DSX wide mode. It might be fair to say that I like the 5508 more for music and the 972 more for movies but I need to put in some more time listening.


----------



## Jungle Jack

sub_crazy said:


> Your right Jack, the 5508 to 972 is not a fair comparison but it's close considering the 972's intended $1,800 retail price.
> 
> I really just need more time to listen to the 972 but there were some things I thought it did better than the 5508. I was a bit rushed yesterday as I knew if I didn't get it going that I wouldn't have the time until next week.
> 
> The 972 definitely has a more enveloping sound to it with 3-D Trinnov engaged than the 5508 in DSX wide mode. It might be fair to say that I like the 5508 more for music and the 972 more for movies but I need to put in some more time listening.


FWIW I was factoring in the MSRP of the 972 as otherwise it would be a difference in the thousands! While Trinnov has met every expectation, I still have my 3008 as XT32/SubEQ HT is special indeed.
Cheers,
J


----------



## cschang

sub_crazy said:


> I did listen to some other tracks tonight including music. The music sounded good but I wouldn't say as good as the Onkyo 5508 it replaced. I seamed to notice that the music lost a little detail compared to the 5508 but that could just be in my head as I can't a/b them. My earlier headache also might have contributed to what I was hearing but it was gone and I was in good spirit's when I decided to give it another shot. It does sound good though but I didn't find my-self getting lost in the music which is when I know I have something I like.
> 
> I put on the Dolby TrueHD demo and I had to turn on Cinema EQ, I actually never use it on anything else but I was starting to get another headache from excess treble. I actually decided to turn off the spatial EQ and that really does make a difference but there are also volume changes that I noticed when running SMS-1 tests. It's much lower in volume with spatial EQ on 3-d than without, I should have marked down the difference but I would say it was in the 3db range. One thing that was really apparent with spatial EQ off was the subs, they were bloated and boomy which wasn't what I was expecting at all. All around turning off the spatial EQ was not good.
> 
> There still is that way it makes all the speakers disappear, last time I heard that was with the Halcro SSP-200. I also don't miss the DSX wides at all but to be fair they didn't add much in this room anyway.
> 
> I really want to like this as the way all the speakers blend together is really cool. It would have to be the dedicated movie system though as the audio drop-out's when it changes codecs would drive me crazy while watching TV.


The music losing some detail with spatial correction is understandable. For music, if your front speakers are narrower than 30 degrees from the listening position, Trinnov pulls some of that info and put it in the surrounds to try and widen the space. This puts some of that detail into the surrounds, and since those surrounds are at different angles and possibly a bit behind you, the perception of that detail changes. Kal Rubinson, in his review, felt he lost some treble energy with 2d/3d correction engaged. I notice the same in my setup...still not sure what I prefer.

Don't turn spatial EQ off...set it to LVL+DLY. That preserves the channel levels and delays, and shuts off the speaker angle corrections.

By setting spatial to none, you might have thrown off the sub level.


----------



## sub_crazy

Thanks for the tips cschang, they made a very nice difference.

I only had about an hour of free time today at the house so I loaded the 6db sub file which went along easy enough. I also used video 2 as my music setting for Trinnov, video 1 is set for movies. I changed the Trinnov parameters to music and LVL+DLY, forgot what the EQ was set to but either it was Natural or Flat. Now music sounded a lot better than it did the other day. I went back to video 1 which is set-up for movies with 3-D and cinema setting and there was a big difference.

Only had a chance to try a couple of movie clips so I put on Cloverfield to test out the added bass boost I just loaded and the subs were jumping.

I have to admit that even though the 5508 produces a much flatter response when measured in actual listening the bass sounds really good with the 972.

The more I listen to the 972 and get accustom to all the different settings the more I like it.

Thanks for everyone's help.


----------



## internova

I'm thinking getting this receiver for Trinnov. From HTM's measurement, the amp section looks "not that impressive" (Cannot post URL but it's on HTM). $1000 Denon, Onkyo, Pioneer have better numbers. 

What software did you use the measure room responses? REW?


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
68 Watts into 5/7 Channels is really not that bad. For instance, here is the Bench Test of the $1100 Yamaha Aventage A1010:http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a1010-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## RTPBob

*Troubleshooting question*

I'm still having problems with my unit dropping channels. Runs fine then the next day 2 channels are out. After moving a lot of interconnects around, it works again. Wife told me that last night lost a channel in the middle of a movie then it came back after a few minutes. This is driving a power amp out of the preamp outs. Have tried multiple different interconnects with same results. After working fine, it drops out and in without anyone touching of the system.

Is it possible to put a meter on the preamp and power amp outputs to determine which one of them is dropping? If so, what sort of reading am I looking for? 

Thanks


----------



## cschang

^^^
I would contact Sherwood support, or exchange the unit.


----------



## typ44q

Well after much deliberation I decided to keep the R972. I have learned to live with it's quirks and the sound quality for the money just keeps impressing me more and more. I do have some hope for future firmware updates but even if they never happen I will still be happy with it as it is.


----------



## cschang

a poster on another forum states that Sherwood support claims there will be a firmware update the middle of next month that addresses an issue with a specific STB. Maybe there will be other fixes? Apparently some new bass targets on the way as well.


----------



## typ44q

I heard the same thing from Sherwood support (actually I was told it would be out around the end of the month) and that they would continue to support it for two more years but I guess I am just a bit skeptical that these issues will be resolved.


----------



## cschang

All we can do is hope.


----------



## richard7948

I hooked up my new R-972 a couple days ago. The video is working properly but so far no audio at all. I'm using it as a preamp/processor connected to a B&K 200.7 power amp using the 972's preamp output. The power amp was working with the B&K processor so I doubt that is the problem. The 12 volt trigger turns the amp on and the front blue light illuminates when the 972 is turned on. There is output from the 972's power amp. Did I miss something in the setup that turns the preamp output on and/or the power amp off? My next test is to put a volt meter on the preamp outputs to see if there is a signal there unless those with experience know something I haven't learned yet.
Thanks,
Rich


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## typ44q

I would try to connect the speakers directly to the 972 to see if you get anything at all. I have L,C,R speakers connected to a 3 channel amp and the rears powered by the receiver and I do not remember having to so anything special to get it to work.


----------



## jaymz

Speaker light on front panel lit?

Jim


----------



## richard7948

I attached one speaker to the r-972 power amp and that worked, also the red speaker symbol, (red makes you think it is muted) is on. The B&K also has switches for balanced or unbalanced inputs and I actually remembered to change them too.
Thanks for the quick responses, 
Rich


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
I have actually never hooked up a Speaker Cable to the 972 and have always used Outboard Amplification with it. This is the first instance I have come across where there is no sound when an amplifier is connected. I would try disconnecting the 12v Triggers just to see if that changes anything. I am guessing that you will get sound with the Triggers off for some reason. A gut feeling if you would. All the same, sorry you are having these issues and I hope for a speedy resolution.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## tonyvdb

Im not at home right now but in the user menu there is a setting for HDMI that I accidentally turned on and I lost the sound output. is it possible that you did the same thing?


----------



## hjones4841

Is there an amp assign item on a setup menu that needs to be set for pre-outs to be live? I have Denon, so no help on Sherwood. I would think the pre-outs are live even when the internal amps are in use - that is the way it is on Denon.


----------



## ALMFamily

There is not that I am aware of - I was able to plug and play my Crown XLS1500 just as Jack said. I second Tony's suggestion - that is one I did as well.


----------



## Jungle Jack

There is not an Amp Assign. When I setup my 972 I simply connected my amps like I do with every AVR and just like that they was Sound. Just to make double sure, is there any chance you might have connected the RCA's from the amp accidentally into the Mutichannel Input? I have been guilty of doing this in the past and would neatly explain the issues you are having.


----------



## richard7948

JJ,
There may be something to the 12V trigger issue. I had always used a mono 1/8" plug on the B&Ks and noticed the 972 called for a stereo plug. On close scrutiny of the diagram on the back of the B&K I now see that is shows a stereo plug also. I switched to a stereo cable last night and found the amp came on with the 972 when the trigger cable was plugged into the amps output rather than input. With the trigger cable disconnected the amp didn't want to turn on. 

I thought maybe I had plugged into the 972's inputs instead of outputs last night. Double checking revealed the surprising result that it did it right!

Tonyvdb,
I did notice that if the audio signal was sent out on HDMI that the amplifier section was turned off. I think I set that correctly as confirmed by connecting one speaker up to the 972 amp and getting sound output.

hjones4841,
That is what I was wondering, if there was some sort of assignment between preamp or power amp outputs that I had missed. I appears that there is no such assignment. The preamp should be on all the time. That is what I intend to find out tonight with a volt meter on the preamp outputs. If there is output there I've isolated it to the trigger or some other problem in the amp. If that is the case I'll hook the speakers up to the 972 untill I can diagnose the B&K amps problem. 

I'm probably getting ahead of myself, but am wondering if my system is going to give the Trinnov fits. I set my theatre up more like a commercial THX one with 10 surround speakers, 3 surround on each side (3 rows of 4 seats) and 4 across the back (2 for each surround back channel). Therefor the Trinnov may be confused by the 2 or 3 distances to each surround channel. The three front speakers are dipole ribbons (Apogee Stage L&R, BG 42" center). I've pretty well turned them into monopoles with heavy absorption behind them so they may not be a problem. I don't have any other speakers with the center ribbon so it has a protective 250 Hz high pass filter, so it crosses ove quite a bit higher than the surrounds and the Apogees are full range.

Thanks for al your ideas. I'll report results tonight or tomorrow.
Rich


----------



## ALMFamily

Wow Rich - that sounds like an impressive set-up. Any chance we could get you to post up some pics in the Photos subforum? :bigsmile:


----------



## richard7948

I'd be happy to but it will be a couple weeks as I'll be traveling all next week and am busy getting things done before I leave. In some ways it is not too impressive as all speakers are hidden behind curtains in the front and stretched fabric walls on the side. I used double knit grill cloth from Parts Express and snap-tex moldings to hold it on the sides. The surround back speakers are exposed on a shelf. The fabric also hides absorbers at first reflection areas and diffusers above and below.
Rich


----------



## hjones4841

If you have a 1/8 plug to RCA cable or adapter you can use a MP3 player (iPod, etc.) to check the amp. Just plug it into the amp, but remember to have the volume turned down on the player first.


----------



## tesseract

richard7948 said:


> I'd be happy to but it will be a couple weeks as I'll be traveling all next week and am busy getting things done before I leave. In some ways it is not too impressive as all speakers are hidden behind curtains in the front and stretched fabric walls on the side. I used double knit grill cloth from Parts Express and snap-tex moldings to hold it on the sides. The surround back speakers are exposed on a shelf. The fabric also hides absorbers at first reflection areas and diffusers above and below.
> Rich


Hope you find resolution with the amp issues. I am curious, how do you determine dipole first reflection points?


----------



## TypeA

Ordered one of these units today from A4L, looking forward to checking out Trinnov


----------



## Jungle Jack

TypeA said:


> Ordered one of these units today from A4L, looking forward to checking out Trinnov


Ty,
You are amassing quite an array of AVR's. I know the feeling. I really do look forward to reading your impressions on the 972 as you have so recently have experiences with Onkyo and Marantz to compare the S/N to. 

I remain quite impressed with Trinnov. Moreover, I am quite fond of the Industrial Design on the 972, My biggest gripe about the 972 is the Remote Control. I ended up using the Remote Control from my former TX-NR3007 as when Onkyo USA replaced it with a brand new 3008, I did not bring the RC to the local Service Center where it was first attempted to be repaired. It was actually quite easy to make the Onkyo RC learn all of the important commands from the S/N Remote. For $600, it truly is a stellar deal and all the better with a 3 Year Warranty. Congrats amigo.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## TypeA

Thanks Jack, its already shipped so might be here as early as tomorrow. 

As luck would have it I still have a brand new 3007 remote I purchased as a back-up when I owned the 3007. It's a fine remote that I was very pleased with when I was using the 3007. For some strange reason the guy who purchased the receiver didnt want it for a zone 2, or even just as a backup remote, so I still have it laying around somewhere in a box. I figure Ill continue to use the Home Theater Master 9000 for zone 1 like I currently do with the Marantz, the Onkyo remote will likely be relegated to zone 2 operations. 

The Marantz 8002 which, ironically enough has an awesome zone 2 remote, has been up for sale for a few weeks now. Sadly no takers even at $550 shipped and it being listed on four sites. Hopefully I dont have to drop in price too much to get it sold, its an excellent receiver that has served me very well, simply no room in my signature for dual-AVRs tho. :laugh: 

I plan to follow Curt's instructions for dual-room calibration and use the surround back pre-outs to drive a Trinnov-calibrated stereo pair of Martin Logan LX-16s and VTF2 MK3 sub Ive got running in zone two (via the UPA-2 amp). Its awesome that Hsu has high-level inputs on their subs, helps me avoid having to split the 972's sub out and power off the sub Im not using every time I switch zones. Personally I think high-level inputs on subs should be mandatory, but I digress. The video for the zone 2 will be component to a 720p Mitsubishi HC-3000 projector in the master bedroom, hopefully the HDMI connected Sanyo I have in zone 1 will play nice with the finicky 972 HDMI control. Only question I have, and that my research has not revealed, is if the saved Trinnov calibrations have discrete remote control codes. Obviously that will make a big difference in how easy it will be to go from a 5.1 hdmi connection in zone 1 to a component 2.1 connection in zone 2 by just selecting between two Trinnov calibrations.


----------



## tonyvdb

Ty, looking forward as well to your impressions of the 972. One thing you will notice out of the box is the shear size of the receiver. Its bigger in every way than my Onkyo 805 and I thought it was a big unit.


----------



## ALMFamily

tonyvdb said:


> Ty, looking forward as well to your impressions of the 972. One thing you will notice out of the box is the shear size of the receiver. Its bigger in every way than my Onkyo 805 and I thought it was a big unit.


+1 - welcome to the 972 club Ty. And, she is a beast - I had to make new holes in my living room TV stand / rack just to get it to fit.


----------



## sub_crazy

Have you guys tried setting up the remote for RF operation? I had to do it for mine as the receiver is situated in a way for my Harmony RF extender to work but to use the 972 remote I had to walk back to it as I had no line of sight from the LP. The remote works much better in RF mode so when I want to make changes in the set-up menu I can do it easily from my LP.


----------



## tonyvdb

Hey Mike, no I have not but I should give it a try.


----------



## sub_crazy

Congrats TypeA.

I remember when I first got it I was advised to do a reset first thing then do the trinnov calibration. Tony has it in the first post but I will repeat it here:




tonyvdb said:


> *To check the version of your R-972 firmware:*
> hold Display and Enter/Memo
> 
> *To reset the R-972 to factory settings: *
> Once in Standby Mode, press and hold down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM . If not, repeat the reset process.
> 
> Information on installing the bass boost Hex files here


Adding the 6db bass boost really helped as well, if not the bass was a little anemic for me. 

Here is the advice cschang gave me about doing the bass boost update and it worked perfectly for me:



cschang said:


> Here's what I got for instructions:
> 
> "Please copy any of those factory.hex files to USB drive root position. (ex. E:\factory.hex)
> To update this firmware, turn ON the 972 and wait for relay click. Once you hear the relay click, change the input to USB. When NO DEVICE displayed, please insert the USB drive to the front USB slot.
> 
> Update will automatically start."
> I forget what it says when it's finished, but you will know. Just turn unit off and on.


Overall I really like it and the dialog clarity is one of the biggest improvements. XT32 does do a better job on the subs but I still have my SMS-1 around to take care of that but the 3D mapping is what really makes it special. For movies I really enjoy 3D mapping but for music I took cschang's advice and set spatial EQ from 3D to LVL+DLY and music really improved for me. I actually have Video 1 set up for movies from my Oppo BD Player and Video 2 set up for music using the same Oppo and HDMI input so I don't have to go into the service menu each time and change it.


----------



## sub_crazy

tonyvdb said:


> Hey Mike, no I have not but I should give it a try.


It makes a huge difference, even standing in front of the 972 with the remote in IR mode it sometimes took 4 button pushes to get it to take the command as the remote has such a small IR window. You had to have the aim of a sharp shooter. With RF it is 2 button pushes max most times, not perfect but a lot better and the 972 will still take IR commands from my Harmony.


----------



## tonyvdb

I use only my Harmony for general use. If Im setting up the unit or adjusting it sometimes I will switch to the 972s remote. Its just a badly designed remote in my opinion.


----------



## sub_crazy

I have a question for you guys.

I recently did another Trinnov calibration and just figured the 6db bass boost would still be in the firmware. After the calibration I went to make adjustments with my SMS-1 and noticed that my bass levels were back to normal, I no longer had the 6db bass boost. I went ahead and re-loaded the 6db bass file but when I went into the SMS-1 it was still the same. I then decided I would load the flat file, turn off the 972 and check with the SMS-1 and it was the same. I then re-loaded the 6db boost and after power recycling it was the same, nothing changed like it did when I first applied the 6db boost. I just went ahead and turned up the volume on my SMS-1 until I had the same levels as before.

I am thinking I probably should have reset the 972 before doing another calibration, then add in the 6db boost, does that sound right?


----------



## TypeA

Much appreciated Mike. Its amazing the number of pro reviews on the 972, I suppose we have the first ever consumer-level Trinnov implementation in a receiver to thank for that. So having read all the reviews I figure I have a good grasp on the base-line settings I will being using to start; music, natural, 3D...and then tweak from there. I think I will especially benefit as my mains are really tall and the center is pretty low below my screen, so I should greatly benefit from the 3D settings. To say nothing of the acoustically-terrible install I have in zone 2 and setting up a calibration in that zone as well...

Will certainly install the new curve, will likely try the +6 to start. Again, appreciate the advice.


----------



## TypeA

Thanks Tony and Joe, looking forward to doing some comparisons myself. Will probably take me a little while to get it all set up and calibrated as my system is a little complicated, had to order a 50' cable extension for the calibration mic today as the included length wont be enough with my remote installs and all, should be fun tho...


----------



## richard7948

I got the system going last night though without the B&K amp. I'm using just the receiver. I made one Trinnov callibration but listened just a bit as it was approaching midnight. I snapped a couple pictures and will attempt to post them in the completed theatre thread under Rich M's theatre. Answering Tesseract, I determined first reflection points by having a helper move a mirror along the wall while watchig from various seats. If I could see one of the front 3 speakers that is where absorption went. I didn't do that for surrounds though as I thought that would make the room too dead. The absorption for the front probably covers most of the areas for the surrounds though. The fibreglass is ordinary 6" thick wall insulation. I wove 4' X 16" 14" masonite through the studs to make convex shapes for diffusion. My drum collection in the back also diffuses.
Rich
Rich


----------



## TypeA

Mmmmmmm, new gear:hail:


----------



## tonyvdb

That box look strangely familiar :rubeyes:, looking forward to hearing your impressions.


----------



## ALMFamily

Hey, that looks just like my CC speaker stand! :bigsmile:

Grats Ty - now get it set up so we can hear what you think! :heehee:


----------



## TypeA

I have plenty to say about this receiver, enough to justify a full-blown review if Im motivated. Ill ponder it more as I complete my listening tests in zone 1, perhaps Ill add a unique perspective on this unit that Ive not read in the numerous reviews available. Still waiting on the 50' extension for the calibration mic, cant do my calibration and listening tests of zone 2 till I have that. Im sure you guys will be curious to hear how it does with the pair of Martin Logan LX-16s (and VTF2 MK3) 2.1 system I have in zone 2 and not just the av123 system I have in zone 1. 

Anywho heres the results of the first calibration in zone 1....


----------



## TypeA

Im also thinking Ill need to re-do my calibration without the XPA-5 amp. As you can see by the picture above my trim levels seem low, severely low, and as a result Im getting to max volume much easier than I should. Strange...


----------



## noah katz

Those levels are very typical for the 972.

Also I don't believe you can run Trinnov in Zone 2.


----------



## sub_crazy

Noah's right, my levels are about the same as well. I can play at volumes way higher than I can take without distortion so everything seems coolio!


----------



## TypeA

Thanks to you both, it helps to know that is common. Bad news as I know my system can get louder than current trim levels seem to allow for. Its alot of work to disconnect the speakers from the amp and feed into the speaker terminals of the avr so I think Ill give it some time and see if Im finding volumes lacking before I go through the trouble of experimenting.

Noah, as for the zone 2 I would actually be using the surround back channels not currently being used in my zone 1 (5.1) system. Those two unused channels can be calibrated independently and saved in one of the three calibration spots as an independent 2 channel calibration. Youre correct that zone two and three can not be calibrated however they will actually both be disabled for my dual-zone configuration


----------



## typ44q

tonyvdb said:


> Ty, looking forward as well to your impressions of the 972. One thing you will notice out of the box is the shear size of the receiver. Its bigger in every way than my Onkyo 805 and I thought it was a big unit.


Bigger in size but almost 10 lbs lighter than the 805 (not that it matters to me because I am not using the internal amps except for surround) 

The 972 also runs MUCH cooler than the 805.


----------



## tesseract

richard7948 said:


> Answering Tesseract, I determined first reflection points by having a helper move a mirror along the wall while watchig from various seats. If I could see one of the front 3 speakers that is where absorption went. I didn't do that for surrounds though as I thought that would make the room too dead. The absorption for the front probably covers most of the areas for the surrounds though. The fibreglass is ordinary 6" thick wall insulation. I wove 4' X 16" 14" masonite through the studs to make convex shapes for diffusion. My drum collection in the back also diffuses.
> Rich
> Rich


Off topic here, I was just wondering if different methods other than ray tracing or mirror were employed to determine the first reflection points, because dipole radiation to the sides is nil.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Congrats indeed Ty. As the XPA Series use a good amount of Gain, the Trim Levels seem about right to me. Especially for the price AC4L has got the 972 going for with a 3 Year Warranty and it being A-Stock it really is something special. I really have greatly enjoyed mine and am glad you seem to be as well. I really do look forward to your insights as well.
Cheers,
J


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## sub_crazy

I have done numerous Trinnov calibrations as I am working on subwoofer placements before I decide on what to build yet. I noticed that I was missing the 6db boost on subsequent calibrations that was there when I first did the firmware bass boost upgrade. I also noticed that the calibrations after the first were not quite as good. I decided to reset the 972 and double checked that all my previous calibrations were erased from memory and did a new calibration. I then went into my SMS-1 to measure the subs after calibration then applied the 6db boost file and re-measured with the SMS-1 and my 6db boost was back. A quick listening session confirmed that the bass was much improved again as the boost file seems to do more than just raise the level as it wasn't the same than just turning up my subs 6db. 

It is a little bit of a pain to go back and re-do all of your set-up when doing a factory reset but it definitely made a difference with my re-calibration. The calibration on my subs was also soooooo much better after doing a factory reset as well that I didn't have to use my SMS-1 to drop some serious peaks. 

Just thought I would throw that info out there in case subsequent calibrations don't seem right like it did for me. Once Trinnov is set-up correctly it can do some amazing things.


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## TypeA

Thanks JJ, Ill reserve judgement for now but I should share some of my initial complications and hopefully Ill get some input. 

My brand new 50' calibration microphone extension cord was unsuccessful, several attempts were made and it either didnt like the cable or didnt like the length. I made do with a 20' extension, and that seemed to work fine, but such a short extension will prevent my intended third calibration of the outdoor system I have in the back yard. Dont really hold this against the AVR, perhaps a 65' calibration cable is not realistic.

Setting up a Trinnov 5.1 room and a stereo room, using the R972 Trinnov Optimizer Application Notes written by Curt Hoyt, was unsuccessful. Using the back surround preouts to the UPA-2 for zone 2 would calibrate the 2 channel system correctly but I couldnt seem to get any sources to work. So, using my Monster SS4 speaker selector switch I ran both the main towers in the 5.1 system and the pair in zone 2 off the XPA-5 left and right channels. This worked and I finally got sound in zone 2 but for some reason NOW switching back to my first 5.1 calibration only puts out to the left and right two speakers, it was a successful calibration to 5.1 and remains in the AVR as such! This is the strangest issue Ive experienced thus far.

I seem to have lost pq despite being in bypass (no processing) and not converting from hdmi to component or visversa. This receiver may have an awesome video processor but so far Ive not been impressed with its implementation. My Marantz was always set to bypass and it never affected pq so Im a little puzzled by this Sherwood issue.

HDMI handshake issues have been an issue from the moment I powered-on the Sherwood. HDMI performance has always been perfect, and I do mean _perfect_, from my Marantz. From all the reviews Ive read of the Sherwood I was kinda expecting HDMI issues but I had hoped that adding a monoprice hdmi splitter/amp to the Sherwood would solve any handshake issues. It did help but there are still occasional issues. Once HDMI is locked-on it works good. I have also had component to component problems, this was not expected. Luckily they have not been serious but I was still surprised to see component video messing up.

The user interface is very counter intuitive. Ive struggled to find the right settings just to assign inputs and outputs for, admittedly, a complicated system with multiple rooms and displays. I am beginning to wonder if it will ever be possible to switch between two zones in under 10 button pushes.

The sound quality and processing of the Sherwood R-972 is absolutely awesome. From an audio-performance perspective Ive achieved _substantial_ performance improvements, and in every regard; bass management, imaging, detail, sound field, the hype is very accurate and this is truly a remarkable performer. Im pretty persistent so hopefully I can take advantage of such a fine processor and solve some of the current issues Im having, any input is appriciated.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Ty, I am sorry to read about your PQ issues and HDMI Handshake issues. As for HDMI Handshake, aside from a longer than usual delay, I have not had any other issues. The HQV Reon Processor has certainly always Bench Tested well, but I cannot remember seeing an extensive Review of the 972's VP Section. While Reon is now somewhat dated, I am amazingly still using it in my TX-NR3008 while have been using it since my TX-SR875 around 5 Years ago. While I do connect HDMI 1 from my OPPO directly into my display, I really am quite happy with the 3008's VP. I am so glad you have seen great results with Trinnov. I have been quite impressed with it to say the least.
J


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## TypeA

Thanks again Jack. Ill happily live with the Sherwood's HDMI quirks _if_ I can bend it to my will. However I consider the failure of using the surround back channels, as a second and third Trinnov calibration, the most serious of complications and something I really do hope to resolve. Now no matter the settings in source or AVR I only get two channel when switching back to the 5.1 calibration, very perplexing. Since I did have a chance to listen to both the 5.1 and 2.1 calibration I will reiterate that Trinnov transformed both systems in a remarkable way.


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## tonyvdb

Ty, did you set the input surround mode to auto in the user setup?


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## TypeA

Yep tried that and didnt make any difference. For some reason I only had the choice between stereo and Dolby Headphone as processing modes, even when I switched to the 5.1 calibration. Re-calibrated zone 1 and no luck. Factory reset the AVR, re-calibrated zone 1 and all is back to normal. This isnt over yet, I really liked what Trinnov did with the pair of Martin Logans in zone 2, Ill try a second calibration again in that zone and see what happens.


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## TypeA

*Preface*
Well its been long enough, and I think I have a good handle on this receivers' performance, that I can share my impressions. Obviously I cant help but to directly compare this Sherwood to my former Marantz AVR, so my impressions are more a matter of what I lost or gained rather just a quick review of the Sherwood. Prior to my Sherwood purchase I had read every pro and user review I could find. Ive always found that kind of reading very handy for getting base-line settings and adjustments, as well as advanced notice for possible issues with a units performance. Im very happy to report that some of the issues I had read, in some reviews, were either solved by subsequent firmware updates or were just seemingly blown out of proportion by the reviewer. At the same time I did manage to experience some issues that werent in any of the reviews, some of these were solved while still others are in the works to be solved. The following observations were made using a 5.1 surround sound system comprised of av123 Signature speakers: RS 1000 tower mains (powered woofers enabled), RS 250 MK2 bookshelf rears on stands, an RSC 200 center on a short floor stand, and finally a single Hsu VTF2 Mk3 (single-port-open mode) for a sub. Ive also done some critical listening with a 2.1 system comprised of wall-mounted Martin Logan LX-16 bookshelf speakers and a single Hsu VTF2 MK3 sub (also operating in single-port-open mode). I use external amplifiers to include an Emotiva XPA-5 for the av123 signatures and an Emotiva UPA-2 for the Martin Logans, sorry I wont be able to comment on the amp power of this AVR.


*It's all about the sound * 
This is, if youll forgive the expression, an audiophile's receiver. Its Trinnov room calibration system will transform your existing surround sound system in ways you probably didnt think possible. Can you identify the location of each of your speakers when in operation? Do you have a center speaker that is installed either well above or well below your screen? Have you ever experienced a difference in fidelity between AVRs from different manufactures? The Sherwood seems to answer all of those questions, it did for me anyway. The sound stage is far more seamless, imaging is locked dead-center on the screen and the bass management seems very refined and controlled, all vast improvements in my system. I also noticed immediate improvements in details over my former AVR, the Marantz SR8002. While the Marantz was a fine AVR it was still clearly no match for the Sherwood, even in the details. The Marantz had always seemed the most detailed of any AVR I had ever owned, so this Sherwood took me by surprise when it brought the finer details to the front of the stage. Speaking of forward, whats most remarkable is how much the sound stage is shoved towards the listener, even the strike of a single piano key has a greater impact than I had ever previously experienced. Sadly, despite it being published to the contrary, I was not able to make use of the empty surround back preouts and have a second Trinnov calibration for my Martin Logan 2.1 system. However, again; details, imaging and dynamics were all vastly improved over my former Marantz, and thats just using the Sherwood's zone 2 non calibrated preouts.


*Ummm, there's a catch*
As good as the Sherwood's audio processing power is, its video processing prowess is absolutely dismal. The HDMI doesn't communicate well with my display, somewhat expected with all the reviews I had read. Ironically enough this is something that the Marantz always did perfectly. In fact, never once did I have any handshake issues of any kind, ever, with the Marantz SR8002. First verifying that I had the updated firmware (I had 1.47i installed) I had an HDMI amp laying around unused and decided to give that a shot. It did seem to improve the handshake speed and reliability with my HDMI projector but the initial handshake can still be bothersome and it will take me some time to figure out if there is a special sequence that will give me more consistent performance. On a good note I will say that once the HDMI handshake is completed, correctly, it is perfectly stable from there on out and Im certainly grateful for that. There is a slight delay between when the image is displayed and the sound begins, when using HDMI audio, but it doesnt seem as serious an issue as some reviewers would have you believe, at least not IMO.

That brings us to the Sherwood's component video output. Thats right, I _still_ use an old two channel analog audio connection and an old 720p component video connection in my zone 2. I love component and I love what it does for my old 720p Mitsubishi projector in that zone, but sadly the Sherwood doesnt do component correctly either. I periodically get these weird squiggly lines or corrupted video, regardless if the source is my Oppo BDP-93 blu ray player or the Comcast DVR. I have also experienced a loss of the on-screen menu using the component output, this issue has been duplicated on both the Mitsubishi projector and a Vizio 19" LED I occasionally use for system settings. I have never lost the onscreen menu over the HDMI connection so this seems a strange issue. Again, the Marantz was always perfect with its component connection, I was very surprised to see that the Sherwood could not at least follow suit in this regard, even if perfect HDMI performance might have been too much to ask. Currently on-order is the $100 Cables to Go 6x2 Component Video Selector Switch which will essentially by-pass the Sherwood's component video processing. Wish me luck on that one...

*Minor quibbles*
I found that the included calibration mic cable was a little short for all but the smallest of rooms, however the Sherwood didnt like the 50' extension and I could only extend it with a 20' cable. I made do but I never had a problem extending Audussey mic cables an additional 50' and I was surprised the Trinnov mic couldn't do the same. 

Obviously anyone who has had the displeasure of using the included remote will agree that its bad. But when the big square "enter" button is so poorly designed that pressing it will sometimes lock it down under the remote housing, and then youre wondering why the remote doesnt work at all, well thats brings the term "bad remote" to a whole new level in my book. That happened a couple of times, as I was attempting to program universal remotes, very unusual flaw and Im not likely to ever forget that one again.


*In conclusion*
Despite all the apparent bashing above, I adore this AVR. Its a remarkable audio processor that is capable of transforming your speakers and the way you listen to them. Perhaps Sherwood will continue to refine the firmware, and correct its major quirks, but when I consider that it's already a discontinued product I have my doubts that any fixes will ever be forthcoming. For me, I dont think I will ever care if Sherwood corrects anything further. Frankly I just consider myself lucky to have spent a mere $600 on a clearance audio processor with a sound quality like the Sherwood R-972.


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## tonyvdb

Ty, great review. I am sorry that its given you so much grief with the Handshake. Its so hit and miss with receivers it seems as I have yet to have any issues with it locking on to my Sony LCD display. The component problems is interesting, Ive not tried that and maybe just for the fun of it I should.
Your 972 remote mist a a slight defect as Ive never had a button "lock" under the lip or get stuck, I would give Accessories4less a call and get a replacement. Just a side note my harmony 880 has worked flawlessly with the 972 so it is a great option. I have my original remote in a box tucked away now.


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## ALMFamily

Great review Ty - appreciate all the thought and effort you put into it. The component issue is intriguing.......


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## TypeA

Thanks for the compliments guys. I have high hopes that the cables to go matrix switch will work with no loss in picture quality. From all the reviews Ive read most owners are really happy with it, despite it being hundreds of dollars less than any other matrix with dual outputs. Since the Sherwood doesnt offer video support in zone 2 using a matrix switch will also allow me to keep zone 1 powered off instead of muting it as Ive been doing recently whenever using my zone 2 system, so if it works it will actually solve two problems. I guess muting zone 1 when only using zone 2 isnt technically a problem but it does make the system a little more complicated to do it that way...


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## tesseract

TypeA said:


> *It's all about the sound *
> This is, if youll forgive the expression, an audiophile's receiver.


I am a dyed in the wool subjectivist audiophile, and am having a ball with this amp using only the manual settings for 2.1 music playback. The bass management system helped greatly with sub/mains integration. Can't wait to get surround and Trinnov going for my 5.1 SACD's and DVD-A's.

I also had a bit of trouble with the initial HDMI handshake to my HDTV, but all is good now.

Nice review, TypeA, thanks for taking the time. :clap:


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## RTPBob

Ty, loved the review. As for the 50' calibration issue......I have a suggestion that might work. For calibration purposes only, use longer speaker wires (or interconnects to the amp) and move the receiver. I did that with mine (only needed to move it a few extra feet, so I didn't need different wires) and then I moved it back to it's normal spot after it was calibrated.

Bob


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## sub_crazy

I am a little late but enjoyed reading your review Ty:T

It does have a lot of quirks but the sound quality is the only reason it is still around. I am not sure I could take the quirks in my living room system but I am going to have to try it out soon to see if ordering a second one is in order. 

I really hope Trinnov makes another appearance in a future product that doesn't cost anywhere from $10K to $40K. I would gladly pay a surcharge to have Onkyo/Integra integrate Trinnov into one of there pre-pro's. As much as I like Audyssey XT32 and maybe even prefer it for music what Trinnov does for movies is magic.


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## TypeA

sub_crazy said:


> I am a little late but enjoyed reading your review Ty:T
> 
> It does have a lot of quirks but the sound quality is the only reason it is still around. I am not sure I could take the quirks in my living room system but I am going to have to try it out soon to see if ordering a second one is in order.
> 
> I really hope Trinnov makes another appearance in a future product that doesn't cost anywhere from $10K to $40K. I would gladly pay a surcharge to have Onkyo/Integra integrate Trinnov into one of there pre-pro's. As much as I like Audyssey XT32 and maybe even prefer it for music what Trinnov does for movies is magic.


Certainly makes you one of the only sources Ive found for direct comparisons between Audyssey XT32 and Trinnov. Have you posted more specific insights comparing the two?

And Im happy to report that between the cables to go component video switcher, and monoprice HDMI amp, Ive got the video performance in both zones very solid. I suppose technically those add an extra $150 to the R-972 but it still seems a remarkable bargain even at $750 :clap:


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## sub_crazy

TypeA said:


> Certainly makes you one of the only sources Ive found for direct comparisons between Audyssey XT32 and Trinnov. Have you posted more specific insights comparing the two?


Jack also has XT32 and early on in this thread I believe I asked him about the differences before I ordered the 972.

For me the 972 replaced a Onkyo 5508 with XT32 in my theater room. I have been really impressed by the 5508 and XT32 for music and movies and had it set-up for wides using DSX but my conclusion was that wides only added a small amount in my new room. I will add though that wides added a lot in my last home as it bridged the gap between the mains and the surrounds so it was a more seamless blend. I concluded that DSX is room dependent on how effective it will be as the difference was easily noticed between my 2 different room. Trinnov sounds like what a good wides set-up sounds like without using wide channels, it is that immersive.

Now on to the comparison between the 5508 and 972. I still feel that the 5508 is better for music as I get a better separation between vocal and instruments and it has slightly more laid back character. I have found that LVL+DLY is my preferred re-mapping mode for music with the 972, love 3D re-map for movies but even in it's music setting 3D doesn't do it for me for music. 

XT32 also does a better job on the subs and as an overall EQ I feel it is more polished. What XT32 and all other EQ's lack though is 3D re-mapping which truly allows the speakers to disappear, it's like audio magic. I also notice with the 972 that dialog is much more intelligible with movies, more so than any other pre-pro I have owned. 

I actually un-hooked the 972 from my movie only system last night and will try it out sometime soon in my living room system which is more music oriented. There I will do more of a comparison between the 5508 and 972 or possibly the 3008 which I also have. If I can get a better musical presentation in the living room system with the 972 then I might just order a second.


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## Drudge

tesseract said:


> One big problem I did not have before. Cranking up music near 0 dB causes the Sherwood to distort it's output to the mains and the sub amp greatly,with all speakers put out a horrible humming sound. If I am clipping the Sherwood's amp (unlikely, my mains are extraordinarily efficient), it should go into protection, not distort. I don't ordinarily listen at this level, just messing around.
> 
> Anybody else have this problem?





tesseract said:


> Cannot get the distorted output at higher levels, I think you are right about the amp output issues, cschang.





tesseract said:


> I did dial down the subs to within 1 dB of the mains during calibration, still get the humming at high volumes.





tesseract said:


> Reran calibration, until the subs were 3 dB hotter than the mains. Cranked the gain another 3 dB or so on the sub amp, it does sound much better. No hum even at +5 dB on the AVR, which is much louder than I normally listen.


Hi tesseract,

I've been playing around with one of these.

What exactly did you do to get the humming noise to stop becoming audible when the volume control on the 972 is turned up past +0dB?I'm having the same issue with my unit and it's really annoying And I can't seem to figure out what's causing it.I've had 2 units that have done this so it looks like they all have the potential,but I don't understand why some have the issue and others don't notice it.

Thanks


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## sub_crazy

Trying out the 972 right now in the living room system which consists of a 5 channel Von Schweikert system, EAD PM2000 amp and for now dual Audiopulse/TC Sounds Axis 12" which I am testing out. 

I like the Trinnov calculation for the crossovers, about 55 to 58 for all 5 channels to the subs which is right about exactly what I found to be the best blend in this room. So far I have only listened to music but here I find re-mapping set to 2D with the EQ set to Natural and the music curve to be the best so far. Still find 3D remapping to be just bad for music as the vocals just get pushed back or sort of lost in the mix. My previous favorite of LVL+DLY for music is too bright in this room so it's an easy switch back to 2D.

I have to go off of memory of the 5508 but it seems to have more detail that I feel is missing with the 972 and a bit better separation. The 5508 is also a little more laid back, the 972 has a more forward character so it just depends on what you like. I think I fall somewhere in between but for some music feel the 972 is too forward so my preference would probably be for the 5508 as it has never been too laid back sounding. 
The 972 definitely wins on integrating all the speakers and subs as they feel like they are one cohesive unit instead of 6 separate channels were the Trinnov magic really shines though.

I think I have said it before here but if the 5508 had Trinnov then I would be as happy as a pig in slop :yes: To me the 5508 is a more refined sounding unit but Trinnov trumps XT32 ONLY in the added re-mapping, XT32 I still feel is the more powerful EQ. 

I only listened to a little TV and no movies yet but will give it a try since today I am free. Now that I look at the clock I spent an hour already listening to music which I would not have if I was hating what I hear. 

If I was forced to make a decision right now between the 5508 and 972 for the downstairs system I would pick the 5508. I know it sounds like the 972 would have won based on what I just finished saying but the more refined sound of the 5508 is my preference right now for music. The 5508 also has preformed flawlessly for me, just had that one repair that everyone seemed to have under warranty but after that 0 problems. The 972 is staying in the movie only system, it definitely wins for movies I am just not convinced yet for music.


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## tesseract

Drudge said:


> Hi tesseract,
> 
> I've been playing around with one of these.
> 
> What exactly did you do to get the humming noise to stop becoming audible when the volume control on the 972 is turned up past +0dB?I'm having the same issue with my unit and it's really annoying And I can't seem to figure out what's causing it.I've had 2 units that have done this so it looks like they all have the potential,but I don't understand why some have the issue and others don't notice it.
> 
> Thanks


I probably had the sub gain too low, which Trinnov tried to boost, overloading the sub amp input. I rode the gain on the subwoofer amp, paying attention to the levels Trinnov was setting the L/R speakers, and running calibration several times until I had the subs measuring 3 dB hotter than the mains. This would tell Trinnov to dial back the signal level, and I later boosted it back up with the sub amp gain control.

Also, Trinnov may have been trying to boost down low. The Dayton sub amp has a PEQ, so I dialed in a 4 dB boost around 20-25 Hz on the front panel dial. This would take the load off Trinnov having to boost that area.

Hope this helps, Drudge. Please keep us posted.


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## Drudge

tesseract said:


> I probably had the sub gain too low, which Trinnov tried to boost, overloading the sub amp input. I rode the gain on the subwoofer amp, paying attention to the levels Trinnov was setting the L/R speakers, and running calibration several times until I had the subs measuring 3 dB hotter than the mains. This would tell Trinnov to dial back the signal level, and I later boosted it back up with the sub amp gain control.
> 
> Also, Trinnov may have been trying to boost down low. The Dayton sub amp has a PEQ, so I dialed in a 4 dB boost around 20-25 Hz on the front panel dial. This would take the load off Trinnov having to boost that area.
> 
> Hope this helps, Drudge. Please keep us posted.


My sub level, reported by Trinnov, is even with the other channels.I may try calibrating with the sub level 3dB hotter and see if that helps.I don't really think I can try much else.:dontknow:

Thanks


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## Drudge

sub_crazy said:


> I think I have said it before here but if the 5508 had Trinnov then I would be as happy as a pig in slop :yes: To me the 5508 is a more refined sounding unit but Trinnov trumps XT32 ONLY in the added re-mapping, XT32 I still feel is the more powerful EQ.


Subcrazy,

I'm curious do you feel that XT32 is more powerful in the bass region or is it just superior across the whole spectrum?I've noticed many feel that the Trinnov seems better than XT32,but it seems that they are favoring the spatial mapping and I don't know if that means the EQ is necessarily better.I added a my subEQ to the 972 and I heard an immediate improvement in the subwoofer EQ result vs. what the 972 Trinnov EQ could do on it's own.


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## sub_crazy

Drudge said:


> Subcrazy,
> 
> I'm curious do you feel that XT32 is more powerful in the bass region or is it just superior across the whole spectrum?I've noticed many feel that the Trinnov seems better than XT32,but it seems that they are favoring the spatial mapping and I don't know if that means the EQ is necessarily better.I added a my subEQ to the 972 and I heard an immediate improvement in the subwoofer EQ result vs. what the 972 Trinnov EQ could do on it's own.


XT32 includes the SubEQ and it's results are ruler flat in my system, Trinnov does a good job but there are still some peaks that could use some tweaking. 

I do feel it might be more of a hardware preference as well since the 972 has a more forward sound without any EQ than the 5508 or 3008 without EQ as well. That is why I would love a 5508 with Trinnov as it would be the best of both worlds, at least in my music system, the theater system might benefit from the more forward 972. 

I really like both the 972 and 5508, the former for movies and the latter for music but they both do everything very well. It is the Spatial Mapping with Trinnov that really brings something special to the table for movies tough, for movies it is the clear winner.


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## TypeA

Well I made changes that I think sound better with the av123 speakers Im running, lossless and surround sound processing only and Ive not done much in the way of pure music listening. 

Went from "music" to "cinema", that 20 degree spread sounds better than the 30 degree setting. Also changed from "natural" to "audiophile1", blends the speakers together even better. These two changes also, if you can believe this, make the dialog _less_ forward. Never thought I would be dialing _back_ the movie dialog, not with todays hot-mastered movie soundtracks and all:laugh: 

[gush] Truly remarkable the harmony and cohesion this AVR can bring to a speaker package, its like Ive got a whole new theater experience, and thats not just lossless performance but dolby surround sound formats also. The more I listen the more impressed I am. [/gush]


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## sub_crazy

I agree Ty, this is pretty good stuff.

Just tonight was catching up on True Blood on the DVR and had a friend over. There was a scene near the end were a sound came from the behind the characters, I paused it as we both thought there was a noise in the kitchen. Rewound the scene and again we thought it couldn't be the speakers must be something in the kitchen, we both turned around each time. Tried it one more time as now I was convinced it was in the soundtrack but she thought no way. Once again the sound came from the kitchen so just to convince her I re-played the scene one more time and she asked, you sure there are no speakers back there? This was all with a 5.1 channel system, no back surrounds. It really creates a wall of sound that encompasses you. 

I still have to put one of the XT32 capable units to compare but even after about a couple of months of ownership the 972 continues to impress.


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## richard7948

I noticed that the indicator light around the power button is blue all the time rather than turning to amber in standby, as stated in the manual. Anyone think this is an issue to be concerned about? my 30 days is getting close if not past with Acessories 4 Less.
Rich Morrison


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## TypeA

Mine remains amber all the time :laugh:


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## tonyvdb

Hmmm, I dont see why it would be an issue. Mine does change color from amber to blue when powered on. Certainly not going to affect the audio quality of the receiver.


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## ALMFamily

IIRC, that happened to me once or twice. I am pretty sure it was because someone had poked the power button on the Zone 2 remote. Once I turned it off, it went back to amber.


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## TypeA

ALMFamily said:


> IIRC, that happened to me once or twice. I am pretty sure it was because someone had poked the power button on the Zone 2 remote. Once I turned it off, it went back to amber.


I guess that was an issue for me as well, after reexamination Ive found that mine operates as it should. 

Even if the power light wasnt working right, like staying one color all the time, I would be wayyyyy too lazy to exchange it for something like that. Id rather write it off as having a unique unit with one-of-a-kind operating parameters.


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## Jungle Jack

sub_crazy said:


> XT32 includes the SubEQ and it's results are ruler flat in my system, Trinnov does a good job but there are still some peaks that could use some tweaking.
> 
> I do feel it might be more of a hardware preference as well since the 972 has a more forward sound without any EQ than the 5508 or 3008 without EQ as well. That is why I would love a 5508 with Trinnov as it would be the best of both worlds, at least in my music system, the theater system might benefit from the more forward 972.
> 
> I really like both the 972 and 5508, the former for movies and the latter for music but they both do everything very well. It is the Spatial Mapping with Trinnov that really brings something special to the table for movies tough, for movies it is the clear winner.



Until the much lower MSRP (compared to other XT32 AVR's) Onkyo TX-NR818, all have offered SubEQ HT along with XT32. When the 818 was released, it almost did seem too good to be true. However, as all prior XT32 AVR's had SubEQ HT, I did think it too would offer it. While the 818 however does not offer SubEQ, but you do benefit from the far greater Filtering Power on the Subwoofer Channel. If using dual subwoofers, it does not have you bring both down to 75db's before starting Audyssey Calibration the way SubEQ HT XT32 AVR's does.


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## sub_crazy

Good point Jack, I didn't know XT32 was available as a separate option without SubEQ.


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## Jungle Jack

To be honest, I always thought it was a package deal. However, when the 818 was announced and the ensuing fervor about it, it was disclosed that it did indeed not offer SubEQ HT. Given that all prior XT32 AVR's MSRP was $2000 minimum, I can totally understand why SubEQ was omitted. Both was a cost saving move and to justify spending more on the TX-NR3010 and 5010. I am pretty sure the TX-NR1010 will have the same implementation as the 818. Regardless, if only using a single Subwoofer, the loss of SubEQ HT is not an issue.


----------



## RTPBob

*Have a techie question*

OK, need somebody who understands electronics better than I do. I am using a Rotel RMB-1077 amplifier connected to the R-972's preamp outs.

The spec on the R-972 is: Output level PREOUT (Front, Center, Surround, Surround back, Subwoofer), 1 kΩ - 1.0 V

The spec on the RMB-1077 is: Input Sensitivity/Impedance 1.2 V / 8.3 k ohms

Are there any issues I might encounter with this two units connected? Such as the output of the R-972 will not drive the 1077 to full power?

If there is a potential issue, is there anything I can do about it?

Thanks,
Bob


----------



## TypeA

*Re: Have a techie question*



RTPBob said:


> Are there any issues I might encounter with this two units connected? Such as the output of the R-972 will not drive the 1077 to full power?
> 
> If there is a potential issue, is there anything I can do about it?
> 
> Thanks,
> Bob


I wont say that it wont drive the 1077 to its full power potential but I will say that it will likely drive your amps in a different way, it certainly did for me. With the Sherwood I immediately noticed that I get _much_ closer to that magic "reference volume" of "0" than I ever did when I was using the Marantz SR8002 as a preamp. With the Marantz a normal movie volume was about -15, with the Sherwood it's closer to 0, thats a big difference. 

The only thing you can do about it is skip the Trinnov calibration, it sets speakers trim levels very low. Im sure you can squeeze much more output if your speaker trim levels are calibrated manually to almost max. Considering how a Trinnov calibration will transform your speakers system Im not sure I would consider that a solution tho.


----------



## sub_crazy

So today I put the Onkyo 5508 into service in my living room system again and moved the R-972 back upstairs in the theater room. I re-ran Audyssey XT32 again with 6 positions on my mic stand.

I used the CD "Angus & Julia Stone: Down the Way" for all my music listening as it has a lot of different nuances that make it easy to pick out differences. I thought the R-972 sounded great but I felt like I was losing some detail and instrument separation that the 5508 had. It is hard to remember all just by audio memory but on the last track "The Devil's Tears" there is a snare drum and it was MUCH more detailed than I remembered via the 972 that I ran upstairs to play that same track. That is were I found the biggest difference, the snare drum was more in the background on the 972 and with the 5508 you could hear the different snares hitting the drum top with the 972 they were more meshed together and not as distinctive. With the 5508 and XT32 you can definitely hear all the nuances of the different instruments but with the 972 they are more mushed together I would say. It is hard to describe but I would say the 5508 has a sharper attack were as the 972 is more of a rounded sound. It is sort of like that acoustic guitar solo were you can hear all the different sounds like the strings being plucked, the finger movement on the chords and all the detail that you get with the 5508 but is lacking with the 972. 

I also decided to take a picture of both SMS-1 screens to show the difference they both make on the subwoofers. The first pic which looks crazy flat is the XT32 with SubEQ and the second is Trinnov. I actually took off the EQ cuts I had on the Trinnov EQ'ed subs so you could see the difference, the XT32 didn't need any extra help from the SMS-1 besides the boost at 16hz for my DIY sealed subs. I did listen to the Trinnov EQ as is without any assistance from the SMS-1 and even though it wasn't flat it still sounded pretty good. 

I have to add that I also owned the Denon 4311 for about a month and even though it had XT32 with SubEQ it still needed a lot of tweaking with the SMS-1. A friend of mine also has a Denon 4311 and he has to make 2 huge 13db cuts with his SMS-1. I really never have to make adjustments with my SMS-1 and Onkyo's implementation of XT32 and SubEQ after probably 15 calibrations for my sub building ventures. I find that odd that I could get 2 different results with XT32 on the sub channels but I confirmed it with a completely different Denon 4311 so it must be the way both company's implement XT32 into there systems. 

Now back to the 5508 vs 972:

Even with the SMS-1 in the system to correct the subs even further for the 972 I still preferred the musical bass with the 5508. The bass was also easy to distinguish using the test CD I referenced above as it is very well recorded. There was just a better foundation for the music with the 5508 but it was inline with everything else so it was not overpowering. 
The R-972 definitely does a better job at blending the sound of the speakers together via spatial re-mapping. I was very aware of were my surround speakers were with the 5508 compared to the disappearing act they did with the 972. 

This is a tough choice as I don't listen to music as much as I used to and the R-972 does such a great job with TV which is watched downstairs that it is hard to give up. Overall I prefer the 5508 for music as it is just so much more detailed that you hear things that the 972 misses. The 972 is no slouch when it comes to music though and if your mostly a movie person than it's a no brainer, Trinnov is the way to go over XT32. I guess if you had the perfect room and could place all your speakers in there ideal spot than Trinnov would not make a big difference and XT32 would be better.

I was actually thinking of getting rid of the 5508 in favor of a second R-972 for the downstairs but now I am not sure:dunno: I thought it would be an easy decision and I would place my order for the second 972 tonight but I am now going to give it a week and see. 

Still says a lot that a $600 receiver can make one ponder the thought of replacing a pre-pro that has a street value of 2 1/2 to 3 times the price.


----------



## sub_crazy

TypeA said:


> Well I made changes that I think sound better with the av123 speakers Im running, lossless and surround sound processing only and Ive not done much in the way of pure music listening.
> 
> Went from "music" to "cinema", that 20 degree spread sounds better than the 30 degree setting. Also changed from "natural" to "audiophile1", blends the speakers together even better. These two changes also, if you can believe this, make the dialog _less_ forward. Never thought I would be dialing _back_ the movie dialog, not with todays hot-mastered movie soundtracks and all:laugh:
> 
> [gush] Truly remarkable the harmony and cohesion this AVR can bring to a speaker package, its like Ive got a whole new theater experience, and thats not just lossless performance but dolby surround sound formats also. The more I listen the more impressed I am. [/gush]


I also made the switch to Audiophile1 instead of Natural for music. I like the slight boost below 200hz that Natural provides but for music Audiophile1 has a edge in overall clarity in both my systems. I still use Natural for movies though, how about you?


----------



## TypeA

For me natural just seems too forward for either music or movies. So I see myself leaving it in audiophile1 for all processing and even with two channel CD playback. I will say that audiophile1, combined with a multi channel matrix, is a very pleasurable experience for CD playback. Near as I can describe the experience; the resulting effect places the speakers squarely in your lap.


----------



## sub_crazy

Natural can be a bit forward but for movies it is a trade off as I enjoy the subtle boost below 200hz. At least with Natural you never get the question "What did they say?"


----------



## TypeA

Here's a great example of how that 3D remapping can be a _priceless_ feature. My 1 foot high, 50 pound center speaker just went from a 1-foot-high stand (already pretty low) to a 2" shelf on this stand. Used four of these as feet for the bottom of the speaker. Theyre clear rubber, tall, and heavy duty so they should give me nice vibration isolation and shelf/speaker protection. Theyre almost invisible when installed inboard enough. Skipping the center shelf worked great, and looks really nice, but puts my center _almost_ on the floor. No worries, Trinnov 3D remapping to the rescue!!! :laugh:


Before and after shots


----------



## wushuliu

Would the 972 be worth it for only 2 (possibly 2.1) channel music only?


----------



## tonyvdb

I use it for two channel listening for the most part as its in my livingroom. It sounds fantastic :T


----------



## sub_crazy

In it's price range the 972 is hard to beat even for 2 channel. 

I prefer my Onkyo 5508 with XT32 for music but it will cost you more than twice the price of the 972 :spend:


----------



## wushuliu

Thanks guys!


----------



## richard7948

TypeA said:


> And Im happy to report that between the cables to go component video switcher, and monoprice HDMI amp, Ive got the video performance in both zones very solid. I suppose technically those add an extra $150 to the R-972 but it still seems a remarkable bargain even at $750 :clap:


Is this the HDMI amp you have? http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10105&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8120&seq=1&format=2 I'm surprised that it should be mounted at the far end of the cable rather than the beginning. I'm using a 25' HDMI cable frojm Accessories4Less between the Sherwood and JVC X7 projector. Sometimes it takes over a minute for them to handshake, or and off-on of the receiver wakes them up.

By the way Ubid.com occasionally has projectors at great prices. I scored this one for $1700. I got my original Marantz S1 there at half price also. The Marantz was refurb but the JVC is new.
Rich Morrison


----------



## TypeA

Richard said:


> Is this the HDMI amp you have? http://www.monoprice.com/products/p...=10105&cs_id=1011012&p_id=8120&seq=1&format=2 I'm surprised that it should be mounted at the far end of the cable rather than the beginning. I'm using a 25' HDMI cable frojm Accessories4Less between the Sherwood and JVC X7 projector. Sometimes it takes over a minute for them to handshake, or and off-on of the receiver wakes them up.
> 
> By the way Ubid.com occasionally has projectors at great prices. I scored this one for $1700. I got my original Marantz S1 there at half price also. The Marantz was refurb but the JVC is new.
> Rich Morrison



Nope, this amp. Its pretty handy as it's a 1-2 splitter also. 

I have been experimenting, skipping the amp. The Oppo blu-ray player has dual hdmi outs so one to the JVC RS1X projector directly and one to the sherwood for audio. Even exiting movie playback and switching to the main menu of the Oppo takes a good 15 seconds, the screen flashing and belching all the while. Some of this might be my cable as Im using a 25' Acoustic Research DVI cable with dvi-hdmi adapters on each end (and an additional 3' hdmi cable on the projector end). Might pony up the dough for a monoprice hdmi cable eventually...


----------



## Jungle Jack

Hello,
For any others considering the 972, AC4L is currently offering both Free Shipping and free Piano Black End Caps. For what is already a silly good deal at $600 for an A-Stock AVR with a 3 Year Warranty just got better.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Damon54

Have had a 972 sitting dormant in an unopened box for quite a few years.
Time to open up & put it to use. Here is what I propose or want to to do.

This will be heading to a hunting lease & we will have no need for any of it's surround sound capabilities.

I would like to run 3 pairs of speakers. 2 Channel indoor mains that will be Rocket 450's. Outdoor Primary.
Outdoor secondary.

I could see a case where indoor mains & Outdoor Primary would be used simultaneously. No real need for 3 zones at once but would listen to any clever wiring solutions or setup tips. Would like to be able to do this without an external switcher if possible.

Thanks in advance!:wave:


----------



## Jungle Jack

Damon54 said:


> Have had a 972 sitting dormant in an unopened box for quite a few years.
> Time to open up & put it to use. Here is what I propose or want to to do.
> 
> This will be heading to a hunting lease & we will have no need for any of it's surround sound capabilities.
> 
> I would like to run 3 pairs of speakers. 2 Channel indoor mains that will be Rocket 450's. Outdoor Primary.
> Outdoor secondary.
> 
> I could see a case where indoor mains & Outdoor Primary would be used simultaneously. No real need for 3 zones at once but would listen to any clever wiring solutions or setup tips. Would like to be able to do this without an external switcher if possible.
> 
> Thanks in advance!:wave:


Hello,
I do not see why you could not connect the 6 channels from the AVR and just always keep it set to All Channel Stereo. While you could certainly use Zone 2, I am almost positive Zone 3 requires a power amplifier. This way you would not need to do any of this and it could not be easier. The length of the Speaker Cable runs could be an issue so I would use the thickest gauge Monoprice offers for any real long runs.
Cheers,
JJ


----------



## Damon54

JJ,
Thanks for the reply. I like the thought but am wondering how you would turn off the zones you did not want to hear? Could high quality volume controls in both Outdoor Zones be used for this? I can see where it would be quite helpful to have a wall mounted knob in that zone that you can always find & control & turnoff.

Does remind me of a Dr. Friends story where his home was broadcasting adult audio out on the golf course until 9:45 am or so.


This unit was a backup for a friends HT install where we determined it was cheaper to have 2 units due to high labor rates during the install phase. ie lost labor due to a non functional unit made it practical. Time now for it to be put to work.


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## bgarcia17

So, is this model a good buy at $599, assuming a4l still has stock at that price? What are the remaining quirks with the latest firmware?


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## TypeA

bgarcia17 said:


> So, is this model a good buy at $599, assuming a4l still has stock at that price? What are the remaining quirks with the latest firmware?


Hdmi handshake issues, audio doesnt start until a second after video begins (when incoming audio format changes). Those are the things i experience daily, as always ymmv...


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## TypeA

Oh, and its an unbelievable buy at $599


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## Jungle Jack

TypeA said:


> Hdmi handshake issues, audio doesnt start until a second after video begins (when incoming audio format changes). Those are the things i experience daily, as always ymmv...


That is it in a nutshell. I know I most certainly could not have encapsulated it better. However, I seem in the distinct minority when it comes to not experiencing HDMI Handshaking issues. Definitely experience the delay. I love that for $599 that you are also getting a 3 Year Manufacturers Warranty as well.


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## Damon54

What is the latest soft ware version. At the Newcastle site I would guess?


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## Jungle Jack

The latest FW is already installed on all the 972's that AC4L has in stock and have already sold. This firmware includes the ability to handle 3D Signals.


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## Damon54

Mine is an older model.

They sold them out?


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## Jungle Jack

Last I looked, AC4L still had remaining stock. So you have an older Sherwood/Newcastle AVR? If so, the 972 is an amazing deal being $1200 off and using perhaps the most sophisticated RoomEQ available in Trinnov.


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## Steve1173

Just got mine from them even cheaper, $529 + shipping and tax, they are selling a few wiyhout the end caps for that price, found out when I ordered by phone. Saved $60 that way after shipping. Question on the unit, I noticed looking thru the ventilation holes looks like a piece of vertical metal where a fan should go with the hole for it and mounting holes for a fan. Concerning the plastic top on top of the ventilation holes on the left side I read that is to aid in cooling.


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## Jungle Jack

Hello,
Welcome to HTS. You live quite close to me. I have heard all sorts of theories about why that plastic piece is there, but I am still not exactly sure why. Regardless, the 972 runs fairly cool. Awesome deal you got there. It really is a neat AVR and to get an almost $2000 AVR with a 3 Year Warranty for almost 75% off is amazing.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Steve1173

Thank you for the welcome, we are almost neighbors. On ac4l website on the reviews one stated plastic on left side is to help with heat dissipation, me I cannot figure how. Yes got a fantastic deal, they mentioned when I ordered by phone if I needed end caps if not could save $70, with the shipping and about $5 less in taxes saved $60. Few years ago bought the Onkyo SC885 for my other setup from them, good people.


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## Jungle Jack

I have the End Caps and I am not using them. They are still in the wrapping. If I can find where I put them, I will shoot you a PM. And Owner Mark, Larry, and Mary at AC4L are really nice folks who I have done business with for years. We Floridians do get the short end of the stick in terms of having to pay Sales Tax as they are in Orlando.


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## Damon54

Have a 972 but would like the latest firm ware.
This one is coming out of a box & into service after 2 years +.


----------



## tonyvdb

Damon54 said:


> Have a 972 but would like the latest firm ware.
> This one is coming out of a box & into service after 2 years +.


Just send Sherwood a n email and They will send you the firmware file.


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## Jungle Jack

It was the "older model" statement that made me think it might have been a different AVR. Indeed, as Tony said.


----------



## Steve1173

Jungle Jack said:


> I have the End Caps and I am not using them. They are still in the wrapping. If I can find where I put them, I will shoot you a PM. And Owner Mark, Larry, and Mary at AC4L are really nice folks who I have done business with for years. We Floridians do get the short end of the stick in terms of having to pay Sales Tax as they are in Orlando.


Yes they are really nice and totally honest to deal with. Have bought from them before.


----------



## Drudge

If anyone is interested,I'm selling my Sherwood R-972 in the classifieds(to late to return it)it's only 2 months old and the batteries for the remote haven't even been cracked open and the remote hasn’t even been used.It just lacks some of the sonic qualities that I like from my previous set-up. Everything on the unit seems to work properly (minus the the normal operational quirks) from what I've been able to tell from other users' experiences.PM me if interested.

​


----------



## Damon54

Is anybody controlling their 972 with an IPad?
Pardon me if I have missed this in prior post.


----------



## TypeA

Drudge said:


> If anyone is interested,I'm selling my Sherwood R-972 in the classifieds(to late to return it)it's only 2 months old and the batteries for the remote haven't even been cracked open and the remote hasn’t even been used.It just lacks some of the sonic qualities that I like from my previous set-up. Everything on the unit seems to work properly (minus the the normal operational quirks) from what I've been able to tell from other users' experiences.PM me if interested.
> 
> ​


$525 seems pretty reasonable but Im curious, what was the processor in your "previous set-up?"


----------



## Drudge

TypeA said:


> $525 seems pretty reasonable but Im curious, what was the processor in your "previous set-up?"


Hi,

My current set-up includes a Lexicon MC-12(non HD) combined with both Audyssey standalone EQ boxes.I just get better clarity,dynamics and bass weight with this set-up than I do with the R-972.I was just really interested in try out Trinnov and this is the only obtainable version of it that I can afford.I guess it wasn't really a fair comparison,but I was hoping the R-972 would be pretty close in sound quality to what I already have with the Lex/Audyssey,but it lacks the sonic attributes that I've come to really like with those units.The Trinnov remapping though,is where the Lex/Audyssey can't compete and that's where I lose a little,but it's not enough for me to keep the R-972.


----------



## TypeA

Drudge said:


> Hi,
> 
> My current set-up includes a Lexicon MC-12(non HD) combined with both Audyssey standalone EQ boxes.I just get better clarity,dynamics and bass weight with this set-up than I do with the R-972.I was just really interested in try out Trinnov and this is the only obtainable version of it that I can afford.I guess it wasn't really a fair comparison,but I was hoping the R-972 would be pretty close in sound quality to what I already have with the Lex/Audyssey,but it lacks the sonic attributes that I've come to really like with those units.The Trinnov remapping though,is where the Lex/Audyssey can't compete and that's where I lose a little,but it's not enough for me to keep the R-972.


Thats interesting D. I can find very little about stand-alone Audyssey EQ systems, got a model number? Im wondering if they can still be found on the market...


----------



## Jungle Jack

TypeA said:


> Thats interesting D. I can find very little about stand-alone Audyssey EQ systems, got a model number? Im wondering if they can still on the market...


I agree. The only current Audyssey standalone I can think of is the SVS AS-EQ1. SubEQ HT that is bundled with most Audyssey MultEQ XT32 AVR/SSP's with the exception of the new Onkyo TX-NR818 is based off of it.


----------



## Drudge

The Audyssey standalone units that I have are the Sound Equalizer and the SubEQ.These units have been around since 2007 and are no longer in production and have been dicontinued.You can still find them on the used market.They were designed as statement products for Audyssey and used for high end and studio/post production applications at the time.Audyssey primarily provides their MultEQ product as a software solution now and this is the direction that they were always heading in.The Sound Equalizer had the most powerful version of XT before the advent of XT32.The SubEQ is the same as the SVS unit,but adds an additional zone and requires the Pro kit for calibration and has the same resolution and function as the SubEQ feature in the XT32 equipped AVR's.


----------



## bgarcia17

Well, this receiver is very tempting for the price. But there's nothing I hate more than a quirk like missing some audio due to a change in format. I remember the first Cirrus Logic decoders were notorious for that, and they plagued HK receivers. I don't understand how something like that still happens on a modern AVR. I'd love to try Trinnov, but I'd kick myself every time I'd miss some audio. But then again, I wonder how ofter I'd encounter this while watching OTA HD. Hmmmm....


----------



## tonyvdb

What audio do you think the 972 would miss? It has all the latest decoders including TruHD and DTS MA


----------



## bgarcia17

I has a delay in locking onto the digital audio though. So anytime the incoming signal is different, it has to re-sync. That's normal, but apparently this receiver is a bit slow to lock-on. So you may miss a second or two of audio. On older HK receivers, users would complain of missing a couple of seconds of digital audio CD's, when they would skip to the next song and such. Not sure if it's that bad on the Sherwood, but you get the idea. I'm guessing anytime the digital audio signal changes or is interrupted, you may lose a bit or two.  Maybe someone can comment on their experience as they channel surf on cable or satellite?


----------



## ALMFamily

Yes, it does happen periodically when I change channels - especially when I go from standard to HD. It is somewhat annoying I admit, but that is really the only quirk I have noticed - besides the remote of course.


----------



## sub_crazy

It doesn't happen when changing tracks on CD's, the 4 second mute only happens when switching from say Dolby Digital to a stereo signal like a HD prime time show then a standard commercial.


----------



## Jungle Jack

sub_crazy said:


> It doesn't happen when changing tracks on CD's, the 4 second mute only happens when switching from say Dolby Digital to a stereo signal like a HD prime time show then a standard commercial.


Indeed. The good news is that more and more Commercials aired in Prime Time are actually encoded in 5.1. Moreover, sadly some of the most creative use of Surround Steering is done by Commercial Directors. It is this field where Michael Bay first gained notice. He is still Partners in an Advertising Firm to this day. Many other Film Directors share a similar background to Bay.


----------



## TypeA

Ive developed a new issue (or maybe Im just now noticing it) and Im hoping I can get some input. I have two subs hooked up to the R-972, one is Trinnov calibrated in zone 1 and the other is fed with two channel analog from the zone 2 output. When the receiver is powered off, including zone 2, my subs are making a subtle thumping sound. It seems random but its loud enough, and low enough, that it can be heard throughout the whole house at night. There doesnt seem to be a pattern to the thumps, and theyre not hard but both subs are doing it. When I unplug the power from the Sherwood the subs stop thumping. Anybody have any thoughts?


----------



## Jungle Jack

That sorta sounds like a Ground Loop. Have you tried disconnecting the Coaxial Cable running into your Cable or Sat Box and see if you are still getting feedback?


----------



## TypeA

Hmmm Ill give that a shot. If thats the case it seems kinda strange as the only thing Ive changed recently is hooking up hdmi from the cable box to the sherwood. Since the cable box was already connected via component (and the sherwood will convert to hdmi) youd figure I would have already had this issue before the hdmi connection. We'll see, thanks JJ.


----------



## Jungle Jack

Truly a shot in the dark. I have been surprised at the number of times it has actually helped however.


----------



## RTPBob

TypeA,
Had the same problem with mine. It appeared that in Standby Mode the R-972 was not totally turned off. It was sending random "thumps" to my sub. Frequently enough, that caused my sub, which was set to automatically turn-off in the absence of a signal, to stay on. Whether it is a defect in the R-972 that Sherwood would fix or not, I never pursued.

My solution was to connect my sub to a "smart" power strip controlled by the Sherwood. When I put the Sherwood in Standby, the strip notices the change and powers off the sub. Turns the power to the sub back on when I power it up. Works sort of like a switched outlet on the back of a receiver, but without the its limitations.


----------



## Jungle Jack

RTPBob said:


> TypeA,
> Had the same problem with mine. It appeared that in Standby Mode the R-972 was not totally turned off. It was sending random "thumps" to my sub. Frequently enough, that caused my sub, which was set to automatically turn-off in the absence of a signal, to stay on. Whether it is a defect in the R-972 that Sherwood would fix or not, I never pursued.
> 
> My solution was to connect my sub to a "smart" power strip controlled by the Sherwood. When I put the Sherwood in Standby, the strip notices the change and powers off the sub. Turns the power to the sub back on when I power it up. Works sort of like a switched outlet on the back of a receiver, but without the its limitations.


That sounds like it well could be the solution. Great plan of action and I am so glad that it has worked out well for you.


----------



## TypeA

Oh wow I hope it doesnt come to that as neither of my subs are in the same room as the Sherwood. I unplugged the cable box last night and sadly it made no diff. Ill continue to hunt for a solution and at least I know the Sherwood is under warranty, if it comes to that. Thanks for the idea Bob


----------



## RTPBob

Type A,
If you send it back to Sherwood and they fix it, let me know. I might send mind in too while I'm on vacation.
Bob


----------



## TypeA

RTPBob said:


> Type A,
> If you send it back to Sherwood and they fix it, let me know. I might send mind in too while I'm on vacation.
> Bob


I dread how long I would be without my beloved Sherwood but will do.


----------



## tonyvdb

The "sub thump" when off is a known quirk Mine does it sometimes as well when turning on the TV and my PVR even if I have the 972 off.


----------



## TypeA

Thats interesting, a known issue that completely alluded me. Can I ask wheres its known Tony?


----------



## tonyvdb

I read a few posts on AVS that users have had this thump happen. It seem common enough that I think its just another quirk and not a problem with the unit. I only her it if I am using the Trinnov Imaging correction 2D/3D and such if I have it set to none I dont hear it.


----------



## tonyvdb

Not sure if anyone has seen this but I found this very useful PDF on the 972 and how to correctly understand and use Trinnov, located here


----------



## TypeA

tonyvdb said:


> Not sure if anyone has seen this but I found this very useful PDF on the 972 and how to correctly understand and use Trinnov, located here


Yep but i was bummed i couldnt get the two trinnov calibrated rooms found on page 12 to work for me. This article was linked early on in this thread, i think by jj. Just got new seating in the theater so might give the dual calibrations another shot. Maybe its the folded ribbon martin logans that are high mounted in zone 2 that trinnov just doesnt like...


----------



## Anthony

Just got the whole family room system hooked up. Ran the Trinnov and got an interesting result.

Distances and levels seem right, but the -6dB point for the speakers said zero for all of them. Anyone else get this? My fronts are a pair of DIY 2.5" speakers that I know can't play below 80 Hz, and I was putting them at 120Hz manually. 

Sadly my cal mic is packed for shipping (calibration), so I can't get an REW reading.

Did I do something wrong? I figure even if it got the fronts wrong, it should have had something for the surrounds (8" in ceiling speakers).

Overall it sounds pretty good with just the position and DLY+LVL spatial mode. 2D and 3D sounded weird.

Still playing around with it. I'm sure some of this is my fault


----------



## sub_crazy

Something doesn't sound right.

I have always found that I get better results if I do a factory reset before running Trinnov, I have only gotten weird results when I have not done this. 

I copied this from the first post on this thread:

*To reset the R-972 to factory settings: *

Once in Standby Mode, press and hold down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM . If not, repeat the reset process.


----------



## Anthony

I set all the speakers to full with no crossover and ran it again.

The volume on the measurement was much louder, and I do remember turning it up while I watched shows to listen to the differences.

I did not pay attention to that last time, but it might be dependent on the system volume. It's calculating now. Might be the levels were too low and the speakers could handle full range at that lower volume :dunno:

We'll find out . . .


----------



## Anthony

nope, still zero for the -6dB point.

I wonder if this is because I don't have a sub yet. The rears can handle some bass, but the fronts are definitely smalls. I'll try the reset tomorrow night and recal. For now it's not bad, though.


----------



## Drudge

Sounds like another Sherwood quirk rearing it's ugly head:scratch::R.

The sub thumping is normal in standby mode and I doubt there will be any fix for it.These units definitely have stability issues.There seems to be no rhyme or reason to some of the results you get from the calibration.


----------



## bobav

Good Day:

Can anyone please inform me if the 972 can accept dsd over hdmi and decode it as sacd. This is the only issue I find not clear in all the info I find. Thinking of selling my onkyo 3009 for one of these. Love to try Trinnov. Also how is the vid processor. I usuall use direct or through for that anyway. 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Drudge

The R-972 doesn't accept DSD direct over HDMI, only DSD to PCM decoded by the player.The video processor works,but most recommend just bypassing it.I don't know how well it would compare to the Onkyo 3009.


----------



## TypeA

bobav said:


> Good Day:
> 
> Can anyone please inform me if the 972 can accept dsd over hdmi and decode it as sacd. This is the only issue I find not clear in all the info I find. Thinking of selling my onkyo 3009 for one of these. Love to try Trinnov. Also how is the vid processor. I usuall use direct or through for that anyway.
> Thanks in advance.


Im not sure on the DSD decoding but the R972 is extremely disfunctional even just as a video switcher. As a video processor I wouldnt count on it at all. Now many will tout it as having the outstanding "HQV Reon" video processor but my guess is the implementation is terrible and the fact that it has a Reon is actually irrelevant.

That having been said, I wouldnt trade my R972 for anything. Its all about audio processing and, in that regard, the Sherwood delivers in spades.


----------



## bobav

Thank you for the reply. Still might give it a try.


----------



## Damon54

The Hunting Lodge Sherwood NC 972 System is taking shape.

The Digital Front End / Server will be MacBook Air running Amarra 2.4
Firestone Audio Redkey will handle USB >Spdif to the 972's DAC's

iRoomie will handle the IR to wifi interface for IPad control.

Still have not solved the dilemma of how to utilize the amplification channels internal to the 972 for 6 Channels over 3 Zones. All creative input appreciated.


----------



## Drudge

Damon54 said:


> The Hunting Lodge Sherwood NC 972 System is taking shape.
> 
> The Digital Front End / Server will be MacBook Air running Amarra 2.4
> Firestone Audio Redkey will handle USB >Spdif to the 972's DAC's
> 
> iRoomie will handle the IR to wifi interface for IPad control.
> 
> Still have not solved the dilemma of how to utilize the amplification channels internal to the 972 for 6 Channels over 3 Zones. All creative input appreciated.


Just so you know,the R-972 only uses a single DAC chip, the Cirrus CS4382A.I believe it's the same one used on the multichannel output of the Oppo BDP-83.It's performance isn't bad but the analog section after the DAC in the R-972 isn't that great.


----------



## Damon54

Now contemplating a rather large change. I am separated from my manual but seem to recall some kind of 
Direct to amp Analog Input or something along those lines or does memory fail me?

That is indeed info of interest & I will switch to an converter w DAC. Thanks.


----------



## Anthony

Other than the weird crossover issue, the unit has been pretty good.

The Trinnov seems to be working, as I am not getting buzz or distortion from my small mains, but the sound and low bass appears to be even throughout the room (must be coming from my larger surrounds).

My mic is out for calibration, but once I get it back, I'll run some pink noise through each speaker and see just what kind of shaping I'm getting from the Trinnov.

Can't complain yet. It's sounded pretty good. once I get my sub built, I'll re-cal and see how it does.


----------



## Drudge

Damon54 said:


> Now contemplating a rather large change. I am separated from my manual but seem to recall some kind of
> Direct to amp Analog Input or something along those lines or does memory fail me?
> 
> That is indeed info of interest & I will switch to an converter w DAC. Thanks.


The unit does have 7.1 analog input.However there is no ADC involved which means you would not be able to use Trinnov with the 7.1 inputs only the analog 2 ch inputs.I personally wouldn't use the analog inputs at all if I could help it.This is one of the areas where shortcuts were taken in the design.


----------



## Damon54

Now your loosing me, you don't like the DAC but you really hate the analog. Just how are you getting a source into yours?


----------



## Drudge

Damon54 said:


> Now your loosing me, you don't like the DAC but you really hate the analog. Just how are you getting a source into yours?


I'm not hating on anything,just pointing out the areas of the design that are compromised.I was using only the digital inputs(HDMI,Coax/optical) into the R-972.What I was trying to point out is that the analog inputs are not the best choice but you may or may not notice the difference as much.I did compared to what I currently use.

As far as the DAC section goes,you mentioned using the R-972's 'DAC's',I was just commenting that is only has a single DAC chip instead of a separate DAC for each channel like some higher end designs use.There also has to be analog circuitry after the DAC to output to the internal amps or to the pre-amp outputs.This is also an area where compromises were made.The analog section basically dictates how much of the overall performance you will actually get from the DAC.The Cirrus CS4382A DAC chip in the R-972 gets a real world equivalent dynamic range of at least 17 bits.The actual measured S/N ratio of the R-972 equates to a little more than 15.5 bits.That's due to the compromises made in the analog section by Sherwood.

I thought the R-972 had a good overall sound quality and Trinnov re-mapping did make a difference on my system,but it lacked dynamics,lower level detail,bass weight/impact and it had a much higher noise floor than what I'm used to having,which is mostly due to the analog section after and before the digital section of the unit.The digital section is actually pretty good from measurements and reviews of the unit.


----------



## Damon54

I appreciate the help.
This setup is going in the home of a decidedly non Audiophile type. The main goal here is ease of use & control via his IPad.

New plan is Pioneer Elite N-50 into the 972. To many other "moving parts" & unproven apps. with my first proposed setup. Shame that Sherwood did not do a better job with their design cause there is no reason this shouldn't be a highly competent system.


----------



## Drudge

Indeed :T


----------



## billbillw

In a receiver dilemma. My trusty Onkyo 805 which has served me well for 5 years has developed HDMI issues. Now only have 1 good HDMI input on that receiver. I've tried recapping the board to no avail. This is for my projector setup, so I really need the extra HDMI inputs since I only have one long Redmere cable feeding it. In reality, my mount downtube probably doesn't have room for any more cables. 

So, I've been eying the Sherwood R972 along with some of the refurb Denon offerings at AC4L. I am specifically comparing to the 4310ci.

Anyone here have direct experience with both? I'm afraid with either of those choices I will notice the difference in power compared to the beasty old Onkyo. I am very intrigued by the Trinnov features. I haven't read one complaint about the sound of Trinnov, mostly just quirks with the Sherwood. The Denon may be easier to use, and I'm used to just having the standard Audyssey XT room correction, but I know that Trinnov could improve things. 

I guess one real concern is the video upconversion in the Sherwood. Has anyone successfully used the component to HDMI? I read some early criticisms, but I wasn't sure if they were corrected with firmware updates. We are looking at getting a Wii for the kids and I'd like to have the option of using it on this system (even though it will mostly be used on a direct view LCD). 

I'm pretty sure the Denon would win in a comparison of how it handles the video side of things. The denon has network features, but I honestly don't need any of them since I have other streaming devices.

Decisions...


----------



## tonyvdb

The audio side of the 972 is great, Trinnov does a great job no questions asked. As far as video I havent used component but it upconverts SD video really nicely through HDMI my only grip is the implementation of the HQV Raon processor it has almost no adjustments like you get with the higher end Onkyos
The Denon wont have the HQV chip either so it wont do as good a job.


----------



## sub_crazy

I had a Denon 4311 which I eventually replaced with a Onkyo 5508 and was very happy with the change for over a year. I decided to pick up a Sherwood 972 as I was intrigued by Trinnov and after a couple of months of comparison I sold the 5508 and kept the 972. The system the 5508 and 972 is in is only used about once a week for movies only, if it was used everyday then I might have kept the 5508 instead. The 972 has too many quirks if I had to use it everyday but in a simple system it has been fine for me.

I really do prefer Trinnov over XT32 as it envelops you in a bubble of sound which is incredible. XT32 is probably a better EQ as it does a much better job on my speakers and subs but it lacks Spatial Re-mapping which is Trinnov's magic. 

As far as up-conversion on the 972 I always bypass the scaler as it is useless IMO. It will still up-convert with the scaler off, I have my SMS-1 connected to it via s-video. Sometimes when I select the SMS-1 input I get no video, I then have to select another input then go back to the SMS-1 input to get video again. It is just little quirks like that which might drive some people crazy over time, not a receiver for someone who doesn't have patience.

I have had my 972 for awhile though and have no plans to get rid of it, I really like the sound for movies. I will admit that I did like the Onkyo 5508 for music more than the 972 though.


----------



## billbillw

tonyvdb said:


> The audio side of the 972 is great, Trinnov does a great job no questions asked. As far as video I havent used component but it upconverts SD video really nicely through HDMI my only grip is the implementation of the HQV Raon processor it has almost no adjustments like you get with the higher end Onkyos
> The Denon wont have the HQV chip either so it wont do as good a job.


Actually, the Denon 4310 has the ABT-2010 chip, which most will agree, is every bit as good as the ReonVX. The ABT chips are what made the Oppo DV983 and BDP83 so good. The Denon does a pretty good job of implementing the ABT chip as well and there aren't many complaints about the Denon except for the NIC failing.


----------



## billbillw

sub_crazy said:


> I had a Denon 4311 which I eventually replaced with a Onkyo 5508 and was very happy with the change for over a year. I decided to pick up a Sherwood 972 as I was intrigued by Trinnov and after a couple of months of comparison I sold the 5508 and kept the 972. The system the 5508 and 972 is in is only used about once a week for movies only, if it was used everyday then I might have kept the 5508 instead. The 972 has too many quirks if I had to use it everyday but in a simple system it has been fine for me.
> 
> I really do prefer Trinnov over XT32 as it envelops you in a bubble of sound which is incredible. XT32 is probably a better EQ as it does a much better job on my speakers and subs but it lacks Spatial Re-mapping which is Trinnov's magic.
> 
> As far as up-conversion on the 972 I always bypass the scaler as it is useless IMO. It will still up-convert with the scaler off, I have my SMS-1 connected to it via s-video. Sometimes when I select the SMS-1 input I get no video, I then have to select another input then go back to the SMS-1 input to get video again. It is just little quirks like that which might drive some people crazy over time, not a receiver for someone who doesn't have patience.
> 
> I have had my 972 for awhile though and have no plans to get rid of it, I really like the sound for movies. I will admit that I did like the Onkyo 5508 for music more than the 972 though.


Thanks for the input. This will also be in a basement theater setup. It will probably get more use than just once a week as I like to watch sports down there as well and my wife will put things on for the kids to watch. I don't mind having to deal with a few quirks, but my wife will go nuts if everything doesn't work like its supposed to. If it doesn't come on and show an image with one push of a Harmony button, I'll be getting angry irrational calls at work.


----------



## sub_crazy

billbillw said:


> Thanks for the input. This will also be in a basement theater setup. It will probably get more use than just once a week as I like to watch sports down there as well and my wife will put things on for the kids to watch. I don't mind having to deal with a few quirks, *but my wife will go nuts if everything doesn't work like its supposed to. If it doesn't come on and show an image with one push of a Harmony button, I'll be getting angry irrational calls at work.*


That is were you might run into trouble, the 972 is one of the least user friendly receivers due to the quirks.


----------



## bobav

Are you gents using the 972 internal amps or external amps. And if you use the video source direct do you avoid many of the quirks?


----------



## tonyvdb

Im using my internal amps and haven't had any issues driving my Mission 765s, They are 4ohm 93db efficient.


----------



## billbillw

Of course, when I was talking to the salesman at AC4L this morning, he tried to steer me in several different directions. He was pushing the Marantz 7005, but I have a problem with an AV receiver that is supposed to be near flagship, but only weighs 29lbs. 

Lets see, I've had a Denon 4802 that came in at 45lbs then the Onkyo 805 which is 51lbs and now I'm gonna trust something the weighs 20lbs less to drive my system? Don't think so.


----------



## typ44q

bobav said:


> Are you gents using the 972 internal amps or external amps. And if you use the video source direct do you avoid many of the quirks?


Both. I am using a 3 channel external amp for my front three speakers but they are fairly inefficient at 88dB and 4ohm I do use the internal amps for the two surround speakers, which they have no problem driving.


----------



## tonyvdb

How much are you looking at spending? Why not go with this Onkyo 818?


----------



## billbillw

tonyvdb said:


> How much are you looking at spending? Why not go with the Onkyo 818?


Not sure I want another Onkyo. They seem to have a bad history of failing HDMI which has gotten even worse since my 805. My 805 should have lasted longer. It was never kept in a hot cabinet, always in free air. I think an AVR should last you 10 years under normal usage, even if it becomes technically obsolete.


----------



## tonyvdb

There are so many possibilities as to why the HDMI board fails, Ive seen reports for other brands of this happening also. Dirty power, unplugging and plugging in HDMI cables constantly is also a cause of failure due to static. Im going on 6 years for my 805 and still never an issue.


----------



## billbillw

tonyvdb said:


> There are so many possibilities as to why the HDMI board fails, Ive seen reports for other brands of this happening also. Dirty power, unplugging and plugging in HDMI cables constantly is also a cause of failure due to static. Im going on 6 years for my 805 and still never an issue.


Believe me, I wish I could say the same about my 805. I'd be happy still using it. It really had all I needed and plenty of power. I won't use most of the features on the newer receivers.


----------



## billbillw

Well, I kinda took a left turn and picked up an open box (with all original accessories) Yamaha RX-A3010 from Magnolia last night. The price was hard to pass up (about 60% off MSRP). I've got 30 days to return so we'll see how it works. It was an outstanding deal on a 1y old flagship model with full 3-y warranty. Still thinking about how good Trinnov might be, but there seem to be many happy Aventage owners out there too and it is definitely more polished than the Sherwood. Tried it briefly last night and out of the box without YPAO setup, it already sounds better than the Onkyo 805 did, which surprised me.


----------



## primetimeguy

As I ponder getting a 972, one thing I find interesting is for many people it seems to set crossovers for the front channels in the 50hz range, much lower than the often recommended 80hz. And to use Trinnov you cannot change them. I don't want to debate pros and cons of bass management here, but I'm curious as to what people had for crossover settings on their previous receiver compared to the 972.


----------



## tonyvdb

I was running my speakers with a crossover at 60Hz, Trinnov has them at 50.


----------



## mdp

I didn't set a cross-over and ran the Trinnov setup straight. It set the cross-over at 80 Hz. I am bit surprised, cause my LCR speakers (JBL 4410a) are quite capable of doing 45 Hz. Anyways, not complaining at all.


----------



## JBrax

primetimeguy said:


> As I ponder getting a 972, one thing I find interesting is for many people it seems to set crossovers for the front channels in the 50hz range, much lower than the often recommended 80hz. And to use Trinnov you cannot change them. I don't want to debate pros and cons of bass management here, but I'm curious as to what people had for crossover settings on their previous receiver compared to the 972.


One of the members here is selling their 972 if you're interested. He's been bumping it since August so he may give you a deal.


----------



## Stereojeff

The bass crossover frequencies set within Trinnov are the arithmetic mean between the measured response of the subwoofer and the individual channel. While this can differ from the THX mandated 80 Hz many of us are used to, in my experience with over 100 different systems, the Trinnov method is completely acceptable.

Jeff


----------



## primetimeguy

Stereojeff said:


> The bass crossover frequencies set within Trinnov are the arithmetic mean between the measured response of the subwoofer and the individual channel. While this can differ from the THX mandated 80 Hz many of us are used to, in my experience with over 100 different systems, the Trinnov method is completely acceptable.
> 
> Jeff


Thanks, interesting approach but makes sense since I saw people recommend adjusting your subwoofer crossover on the sub itself in order to lower the Trinnov crossover settings.


----------



## cconklin1

reviving this dead thread to let people know this receiver can be had for $299, at 1 saleaday!..


----------



## cconklin1

reviving this dead thread to let people know this receiver can be had for $299, at 1 saleaday!..


----------



## tonyvdb

I would be surprised if you would get the 3 year warranty with that deal or get any sort of exchange help if there is issues so take that into account.


----------



## mdp

It does had 90 day warranty. For half price, can't ask for more. Plus, it could be worth the risk.


----------



## sub_crazy

I bought one of those ebay refurbs and it has been going strong for a few months already. This price is even better since I got mine for $350 with only the 90 day warranty, for the same price I could have the Square Trade warranty on top.

I have never had any problems buying refurbished gear, I have had more problems with new gear.


----------



## cconklin1

mdp said:


> It does had 90 day warranty. For half price, can't ask for more. Plus, it could be worth the risk.


Wow! Tough crowd here! It's $299! A square trade 3 year warranty is less than $40!


----------



## cconklin1

well good thing i am not in a hurry for it. Got my credit card bill for it AND still don't have it! Of course 1superslowsaleaday.com is notorious for taking their sweet time shipping stuff..


----------



## AudiocRaver

sub_crazy said:


> I have never had any problems buying refurbished gear, I have had more problems with new gear.


I concur, have purchased all kinds of refurbished gear and have had excellent results, *EXCEPT* with smart phones. There are four refurbished smart phones of different brands in the family, and all have had reliability issues.


----------



## islandman2020

You guys rubbed off on me......took the plunge. R-972 on the way! Looking so forward to this piece of gear.


----------



## Anthony

I find it's like having an old replica/kit car: there's no manual (there is one, it just won't answer most of your questions), there's a great internet support base for it, you have to tweak and wrench on it for a while to get it working, but once working it is pretty amazing.

I would have been mad if I spent $2k on this, but for $500, it's been a great performer.

Welcome to the club!


----------



## tonyvdb

I so agree, it has is quirks but the sound you get from it is just fantastic! $500 well spent


----------



## ALMFamily

Anthony said:


> I find it's like having an old replica/kit car: there's no manual (there is one, it just won't answer most of your questions), there's a great internet support base for it, you have to tweak and wrench on it for a while to get it working, but once working it is pretty amazing.
> 
> I would have been mad if I spent $2k on this, but for $500, it's been a great performer.
> 
> Welcome to the club!





tonyvdb said:


> I so agree, it has is quirks but the sound you get from it is just fantastic! $500 well spent


+1 - the remote is not that great and it has some quirks when switching inputs, but it has been the perfect unit for my vaulted ceiling, open living room area.


----------



## sub_crazy

I am still very happy with my 972 as well, so much so I bought a second. 

The quirks only really bug me when I am tired or when I was sick with the flu, not the receiver for people with little patience.


----------



## Anthony

Speaking of frustrating problems with this:
I've always had a little nit with this unit and my Pronto remote. The power on command sometimes gets ignored, which really screws up my macros. It occasionally happens with the factory remote, but always seems to happen with the Pronto. 

The database seems fine, as many of the commands work in the test mode, it's just power on that seems to get missed.

Anyone else had some remote weirdness with this unit?


----------



## sub_crazy

I use a Harmony remote with the RF repeater upstairs and sometimes it fails to turn off the 972. I also use a Harmony downstairs and if I am turning on the system on anything other than the last input it was on it will miss the command for the correct input 70% of the time. I can fix the last issue by telling the Harmony to delay the input command a few more seconds but haven't got around to it yet. I have never had either one not turn on though that I recall.


----------



## tonyvdb

The power on issue is just because the remote sensor on the receiver is not very sensitive. If I dont have the Harmoney pointed at the receiver correctly it will miss it. I got around the input delay problem by simply programming a "input select" button on the screen of my 880


----------



## Anthony

That makes sense. Mine is off to the side a bit, so I'm hitting the sensor at about a 15 to 20 degree angle.

I'll try angling the receiver a little bit towards the couch and see if it makes things more reliable.

Just found another nit: I watched a movie I was pretty familiar with and noticed nothing was coming out of my surrounds. I put in an old Avia disc and sure enough, only the fronts came through. Funny thing is, I toyed around with some settings and surround right (5.1) came through at the front left. Weird. 

The distances and angles measured right to every speaker in Trinnov. I don't have a way to test a full 7.1, but I seem to remember hearing surround activity in the past. I'll run the Trinnov again tomorrow and see if I can get it remapped.


----------



## tonyvdb

Remember that each input can have its own trinnov setting. Is it possible it was changed?


----------



## Anthony

I only have two inputs (TV and BluRay) and they were both Position 1, LVL+DLY, Cinema

I do have a weird setup that I don't have a center or sub yet (still building them), but the L/R and four surrounds (ceiling, tweeters aimed at couch) are installed. With Trinnov off, I get a good test signal in all of them.

I'll re-mic it tomorrow and put a priority on getting the sub and center built. My odd setup might be confusing the algorithms. 

With Trinnov off, I really miss the front sound-stage. It balanced my front speakers (tonally) very well.


----------



## islandman2020

eyecatcher127 said:


> The purchase was culminated from all the info gathered from many sources. I've known about trinnov for over 2 years. I've read all the articles on the 972 when they were first published. I tend to do a lot of research. The recent information alludes that the latest firmware was made available resolving issues. I haven't be able to find any sources regarding the details of the firmware updates. No one as provided that info. My point is the latest firmware still seems to be from 2010 and the unit is still not as polished as an $1800 AVR should be. Even at $599 It I wasn't impressed overall to keep it. I simply feel that if they could resolve a few minor issues in another update, this could be an amazing avr. However I"m doubtful any other updates will be made available.
> 
> I do agree that the unit has probably the best room eq I've experienced. I've setup and used all the versions of audyssey, mccac and ypao. The xt32 does still see to to the best job in the sub range. It is nice to see that trinnov does observer and equalize the sub output and it did a respectful job.
> 
> The unit also does apear to use a similar version of Reon however, the implementation is not the same as it did not perform nor look as good. It could be the specific revision of the chipset or again firmware. If it was truly identical and I did not have video issues, I would have kept the unit.
> 
> I'm not bashing this unit. It does have tremendous value and I hope it works out for everyone else. You asked why so, I'm just providing my perspective. Thats all. This unit is all about trinnov and I'm just disappointed that the reon in my 3008 works perfect and the 972 does not. Again it could be defective or could use some more refinement. Thats the bottom line and why the unit was returned. There is really nothing to debate about.


Video: Although I have been fortunate enough to have experienced the same video resolution going through the R-972 vs plugging my PS3 directly into my TV, I think this is why units like the Oppo BDP-103 are so important in that they are able to send video processing directly to your display and let your processor only decode audio.


----------



## islandman2020

typ44q said:


> Does anyone know if the owners manual is available online? I would like to read through it before I get the receiver but it looks like Sherwood totally dropped support for this thing including the manual :huh:
> Also are there any firmware updates available for this receiver?


Online owner's manual:

http://www.prillaman.net/sn2007avr/R-972(A)_ENG_090225.pdf


----------



## mdp

Anthony said:


> That makes sense. Mine is off to the side a bit, so I'm hitting the sensor at about a 15 to 20 degree angle.
> 
> I'll try angling the receiver a little bit towards the couch and see if it makes things more reliable.
> 
> Just found another nit: I watched a movie I was pretty familiar with and noticed nothing was coming out of my surrounds. I put in an old Avia disc and sure enough, only the fronts came through. Funny thing is, I toyed around with some settings and surround right (5.1) came through at the front left. Weird.
> 
> The distances and angles measured right to every speaker in Trinnov. I don't have a way to test a full 7.1, but I seem to remember hearing surround activity in the past. I'll run the Trinnov again tomorrow and see if I can get it remapped.


It happened to me as well when I used Dolby headphone and had turned off the speakers. Afterwards, I turned the unit off. Next day, it was playing in stereo mode. Had to turn off the speakers and back on again.


----------



## Anthony

The thing is, it still shows that it is playing in Trinnov Surround mode. 

I disabled Trinnov and this morning my wife calls and says the surround speakers are playing, but nothing from the fronts. I had her put it in regular Stereo mode and I'll look at it again tonight. Weird.


----------



## sub_crazy

Anthony said:


> I do have a weird setup that I don't have a center or sub yet (still building them), but the L/R and four surrounds (ceiling, tweeters aimed at couch) are installed. With Trinnov off, I get a good test signal in all of them.
> 
> I'll re-mic it tomorrow and put a priority on getting the sub and center built. My odd setup might be confusing the algorithms.
> 
> With Trinnov off, I really miss the front sound-stage. It balanced my front speakers (tonally) very well.


I had read on another forum that there can be a bug when only running a 4.0 or 4.1 set-up in that it confuses Trinnov. If I remember correctly the Trinnov rep suggested to add a single back surround just temporarily for the Trinnov calibration then remove it after and the calibration should be good. 
I am running a 4.1 channel config in my second system and it sounds fine to me, maybe I got lucky?

With Trinnov on my other system which is 7.1 I did run some test signals with the Disney Wow disc and it really shows you how Trinnov actually works. When playing a left surround signal my back surrounds would also put out noise but when in the MLP it sounds like it is just that channel. This happens with a lot of other channels as well as it seems Trinnov uses any channel it feels necessary to achieve the 3D spatial re-mapping. I found it very interesting to try as I really didn't grasp how Trinnov worked but after that I had a little better understanding.


----------



## Anthony

I think I remember that discussion now, because I was researching a 4.1 setup. Now I have a 6.0 setup with no center or sub with fronts that aren't full range. 

I'll prioritize building the sub first, just to see if that unconfuses it.


----------



## typ44q

sub_crazy said:


> I use a Harmony remote with the RF repeater upstairs and sometimes it fails to turn off the 972. I also use a Harmony downstairs and if I am turning on the system on anything other than the last input it was on it will miss the command for the correct input 70% of the time. I can fix the last issue by telling the Harmony to delay the input command a few more seconds but haven't got around to it yet. I have never had either one not turn on though that I recall.


I have the exact same problem with mine, one of these days I will get around to setting a delay.

Can you tell a harmony remote the order you want the signals sent? If you can tell it Receiver 1st then say TV, Cable box etc then go back to the receiver last for the input change you might be able to get everything to work without having to introduce a delay.


----------



## sub_crazy

Anthony said:


> I think I remember that discussion now, because I was researching a 4.1 setup. Now I have a 6.0 setup with no center or sub with fronts that aren't full range.
> 
> I'll prioritize building the sub first, just to see if that unconfuses it.


With a 6.0 set-up you should be good, at least that's what I figured based on what the Trinnov rep said.


----------



## sub_crazy

typ44q said:


> I have the exact same problem with mine, one of these days I will get around to setting a delay.
> 
> Can you tell a harmony remote the order you want the signals sent? If you can tell it Receiver 1st then say TV, Cable box etc then go back to the receiver last for the input change you might be able to get everything to work without having to introduce a delay.


You can customize the macros Harmony uses but in my case I only have 3 items and they all seem to turn on very close together. The 972 just takes a few seconds to accept commands once it is turned on, it makes an audible click when it is ready. I noticed that the click coincides with the final command sent from the Harmony so that is why it doesn't take most times. I would think an added second or 2 for the final command would easily correct that and with the Harmony software it is easy to accomplish.


----------



## Anthony

Re: remote I'll try reordering the macro to see if that fixes it

Re: sub/center I just had an idea. I'm going to run an old full range speaker as my sub in the corner with my external amp and see if that helps. Wont' go as deep as a sub (or loud), but should allow Trinnov to find another data point.


----------



## typ44q

sub_crazy said:


> You can customize the macros Harmony uses but in my case I only have 3 items and they all seem to turn on very close together. The 972 just takes a few seconds to accept commands once it is turned on, it makes an audible click when it is ready. I noticed that the click coincides with the final command sent from the Harmony so that is why it doesn't take most times. I would think an added second or 2 for the final command would easily correct that and with the Harmony software it is easy to accomplish.


I also only have three items turning on at a time. I will play around with it and see what I can get to work but I think you are right, it will probably need more time than what rearranging the commands will give you.


----------



## mdp

You can always put a delay or After command in the macro. That's how I did it for switching inputs.


----------



## Anthony

So I added an old speaker as a subwoofer and reran trinnov. 

First, sad face, my old NHT SA-2 subwoofer amp is probably dead.  Every time it got signal it would pop and huff. You could hear the pink noise in the background, but it was obvious something was wrong. I swapped in another amp (an old monoblock tube amp) and it worked fine, so obviously the sub amp. Guess I'm shopping on Parts Express tonight.

After doing the measurements and such, the results are much better. I can hear it working the surrounds much better and the autoroute or 2D remap works really well. Good center image, music and effects can be heard in the surrounds but not localized.

So I guess the Trinnov was having trouble with my small fronts but no sub and lack of center. Still no center, but the EQ part of it seems to work now.


----------



## cgarai

Hi,

I recently acquired an R-972 and was wondering if anyone on this list has put together a FAQ? I'm sure there is a ton of info in this thread, but I have to admit it is too long for me to bother with:scratch:. Or is that what I have to do? 

Thanks in advance,
Chris


----------



## ALMFamily

There is not one Chris. If you have any questions, please feel free to post them up here. I am certain one of us has probably encountered it and can help out.


----------



## quern

All

I have an Arcam AVR-300 with a bad DSP board. I need to make a decision on my next receiver. I'm almost 97% positive I will order the Newcastle R972 but I've been debating about whether or not the Yamaha Aventage line or new Pioneer Elite's could match the R972.

Now I can get out to hear these main stream units but I don't have any option for the Newcastle unit.

I plan to use Blue Jeans Cables HDMI cables with the unit.

Does anyone have any suggestion why I would want to stay away from the Sherwood unit? 

Anyone ever compare this unit to the others?

I have a $ limit of around $600 so this is why i'm leaning to the AC4L deal.

Thanks.

Jerry


----------



## Anthony

Hi there and welcome to the Shack.

The simple answer is:
If you like tweaking and playing around with your gear and enjoying the sound and video afterwards, then this is a good unit.
If you like to plug things in and have them work flawlessly out of the box, then this is not the unit for you.

In your price range there should also be some refurb Marantz and Onkyo units that are also very good.


----------



## tonyvdb

Well Trinnov is just amazing and does a great job with even the toughest rooms however the 972 is a bit quirky and needs a little patience. If your comparing the 972 to receivers that cost three times as much its too good a deal to pass up.
If your looking for something thats going to preform better and give you little to no issues. The Onkyo 818 from Accessories4less is probably one of the best deal going.


----------



## sub_crazy

As the others have stated the R-972 is the receiver for those that have patience. As far as the Yamaha or Pioneer Elite matching the R-972 I will say no they can't as no other receiver in this price category has the Trinnov EQ. 

The ONLY reason to buy the R-972 is for the Trinnov EQ IMHO, without that I would not even bother with it.


----------



## quern

So	I pulled the trigger and ordered a unit tonight. Can't wait to see how this Sherwood sounds compared to my Arcam AVR-300.


----------



## Anthony

I'll add this to the conversation:

Since adding a sub and recalibrating the Trinnov, the whole experience sounds great. We watched Toy Story 2 and Monsters Inc in Cinema ReEq and 2D remap mode and the speakers truly disappeared.


----------



## quern

Can someone tell me how bad the audio delays are? I am worried i won't like it as a main TV room receiver since i like to channel surf...


----------



## Anthony

I had to play with settings, but with the auto setting (with Trinnov configured), the delays between channels aren't too bad.

There were some settings that had a significant lag because it was switching between Stereo, DPLII, and Dolby Digital a lot. That seems to stay internal to the Trinnov system that speeds it up.

There's usually a lag between inputs, but we don't do that often.

I haven't had to adjust any lip-sync delays.


----------



## islandman2020

quern said:


> Can someone tell me how bad the audio delays are? I am worried i won't like it as a main TV room receiver since i like to channel surf...


Audio delays on my unit are about 1 sec. Channel surfing visually is just as fast. It's just when you pause to listen you'll wait about 1 sec for audio. No one noticed it until I brought it to their attention.


----------



## sub_crazy

islandman2020 said:


> Audio delays on my unit are about 1 sec. Channel surfing visually is just as fast. It's just when you pause to listen you'll wait about 1 sec for audio. No one noticed it until I brought it to their attention.


Your lucky, when a commercial is in normal stereo and the program is dolby digital my audio delays are about 3 to 4 seconds. I have gotten into the habit of waiting the 4 seconds and if there is dialog I missed I hit the 3 second skip back with my DirecTV DVR so I can catch it from the beginning.

I have heard that others do not have the delay but it is the same 3 to 4 seconds on both of my 972's. It is worth the headache for the sound quality though.


----------



## quern

Anthony said:


> There were some settings that had a significant lag because it was switching between Stereo, DPLII, and Dolby Digital a lot. That seems to stay internal to the Trinnov system that speeds it


Why would it try to switch between all of these settings? Wouldn't you be able to watch a pro logic show and choose DPLII so whenever a program encoded this way pops in the receiver just uses your last selected setting?


----------



## Anthony

Not sure. I never did figure out the logic. PLII was the default for most DD 2.0 feeds. If the feed was 5.1, it would say Digital. Occasionally I saw it say Stereo, not sure what prompted that.

Now that I have it in Auto mode with Trinnov, it seems to just stay in Digital mode, unless the feed is DTS or one of the HD audio formats on a BluRay. It's probably doing the same switching, but the delay doesn't seem to be there anymore. Still about 1 second with channel changes, but hardly noticeable (the video from the cable box takes that long to come up).


----------



## quern

I could live with a 1 second delay... but anything between 3-5 seconds would most likely be a deal breaker for me. I ordered one direct from Sherwood and now I've been thinking of cancelling since they only have a 14 day trial. I've been debating between the R972, a Yamaha A-2010, or a Marantz 6006. I chose this for the great price and my uncle has one and likes it (purchased from AC4L).


----------



## quern

i forgot to ask... how good is this kit with 2 channel stereo? If I want to spin an LP or listen to CD's?


----------



## tonyvdb

I use mine almost exclusively for 2ch listening and it sounds fantastic. I do have a sub with it as well. Im not sure how Trinnov would like not having one.


----------



## quern

All:

Sorry for all the questions but i really want to know what I am getting myself into.

Did Sherwood ever correct this issue (from Stereophile)?

Second, there's no way to set a default audio mode for each input format. Since I prefer to listen to almost all sources in their native formats, I choose Stereo for two-channel sources, but want appropriate decoding for all the rest. If you listen in stereo and change channels, the Sherwood will, by default, downmix Dolby Digital to two-channel. Even worse, switch from a nicely decoded Dolby Digital source to a stereo source and the R-972 will reprocess it into a surround mode, with unpredictable results


----------



## tonyvdb

It will remember the last setting you used for that input.


----------



## Onkyolover

Which is better for home theater sound the Onkyo or sheerwood. From this thread it sounds like the sheerwood has better performance. I have yet to experience a sheerwood. I currently own a 809 Onkyo and was wondering what the difference is as far as sound quality.

Sent from my PC36100 using HT Shack


----------



## sub_crazy

I had a Onkyo 5508 and still have a 3008. I prefer the Onkyo for music but for movies the 972 creates such a cohesive sound field that the Onkyo cannot match nor any other receiver or pre-pro I have owned.


----------



## Onkyolover

Am going to have to give a sherwood a try I use my Onkyo for 80% movies and 20% music

Sent from my PC36100 using HT Shack


----------



## quern

One common comment is that when purchasing this unit you must like to tweak.

What exactly does this mean?

Are you referring to multiple times running the setup software for trinnov... Or experimenting with what settings to turn on?


----------



## tonyvdb

quern said:


> One common comment is that when purchasing this unit you must like to tweak.
> 
> What exactly does this mean?


The receiver produces awesome sound however the mic placement is crucial and the 972 has its quirks meaning it is a little temperamental as it sometimes misses turning on the output to the speakers. (switching inputs fixes that). And there is also the sub thump that occurs when using a remote command from another remote.


----------



## melmoth76

Hi Guys, First time poster and fell R-972 post, well as of today. I got this REceiver to replace my Marantz SR6004 which has served me well for 4 years but I felt like a change. The Box arrived today and its a big piece of electronics. The remote like everyone else has said is bad and the interface is not the most user friendly.

I reset the unit as is recommended on this thread and ran the trinnov calibration with my marantz pm8004 driving the L and R fronts. All was good for and hour or two but things seem to have gone downhill. There is a buzzing from my front right speaker, I changed out the Pm8004 and let the Sherwood drive the fronts but its still there, I tried another speaker and it produced the same distortion. I checked my source and replaced the sacd player with another, still the same buzzing.

I did a full reset and the buzzing seemed to be gone , so i re ran the calibration and there it was back again. 

Anyone got any idea?

This was one of the 1saleaday refurnished units and I know they will be on no help:crying:

Any input appreciated, i think I have covered all the bases


----------



## tonyvdb

That is not sounding good. Its sounding like there is an issue with it. Have you disconnected everything but the speakers and see if the buzz is still there?


----------



## melmoth76

Hi,
Yes, i have disconnected everything and reconnected everything.

The strange thing is that when i reset, everything is fine ( no trinnov) and the sounds for the calibration are fine and not distorted in any way, the problem lies with after the calibration and a static sounding noise whenever audio is sent though the front right speaker. 

The audio is still strong and proper but with crackling in it, the pre out also has this noise. It is there regardless of what type of surround / stereo mode that I am in. Really gutted to say the least, especially since it did work for all of 1 hour or so.:crying:


----------



## bhazard

melmoth76 said:


> Hi,
> Yes, i have disconnected everything and reconnected everything.
> 
> The strange thing is that when i reset, everything is fine ( no trinnov) and the sounds for the calibration are fine and not distorted in any way, the problem lies with after the calibration and a static sounding noise whenever audio is sent though the front right speaker.
> 
> The audio is still strong and proper but with crackling in it, the pre out also has this noise. It is there regardless of what type of surround / stereo mode that I am in. Really gutted to say the least, especially since it did work for all of 1 hour or so.:crying:


Someone said to open up the receiver and push down on one of the boards inside. A few have come loose during shipping. It is how one person fixed a similar issue on another forum.


----------



## melmoth76

Hi, Thanks for the reply, I did see that post but I was not feeling brave enough to start opening up my newly arrived receiver. Anyway the plot thickens, I reset once again and re-ran Trinnov calibration and presto , No distortion on the front right, Fingers crossed: wave:

I popped in Tron Legacy on 3D Blu-ray into a Oppo Bdp-103 and on to a Optoma HD33 shooting at a 106" screen. Results of the internal processor are poor so I used the Oppo for Video out to the projector and sent audio only via hdmi to the Sherwood. PS - the Sherwood does indeed pass a 3D signal and actually shows up "3D Bypass Mode:" on the display.

Tron Legacy is a great reference disk because the audio track is a killer 7.1 MA encode and really gives a system a nice workout. My initial impressions are good, soundstage is much more fluid than my SR6004. The Calibration seems to do a far better job in blending my Monitor audio RS6 fronts and center with my Radius 225 surrounds and Radius 90 surround backs. 

For 299 it was a complete no brainer, if it keeps working. 

I'll report back soon with a follow up after I have had a chance to try out all the different setting and do a proper calibration/ test.

PS - One big negative for me is that it does not decode DSD bitstream from sa-cd. I kinds figured this would be the case as the specs made no mention of it.


----------



## sub_crazy

You should bypass the video scaler, it is junk.


----------



## noah katz

tonyvdb said:


> The receiver produces awesome sound however the mic placement is crucial and the 972 has its quirks meaning it is a little temperamental as it sometimes misses turning on the output to the speakers. (switching inputs fixes that).


Also it can take many attempts to get the center speaker to read 0 deg horizontal angle,

see http://www.cahoyt.com/Trinnov/R972Trinnov.pdf

and the R-972 user notes thread at AVS Forum


----------



## bhazard

This receiver is just awesome. For $299 as a pre-pro, it is a steal.

Quirky, buggy, but Trinnov is awesome. I haven't gotten much chance to test it, but when I did you really did feel like the speakers disappeared, which is tough to do in my sub optimal room and placement. The 6db gain file is a must though. 3D remapping and Room EQ: Flat kills bass response. This is compared to a calibrated sub coming from XT32, no gain adjusting on the sub to compensate.

Not sure which I like better fully yet though, XT32 or Trinnov. XT32 does a bit better on the EQ and sub, but Trinnov remapping is outstanding. My 4311 will probably be up for sale soon.


----------



## melmoth76

Hi, could someone explain this 6db gain file to me.
Also with trinnov on an listing to 5.1 sacd my side surrounds sound
A little distant , as in the instruments sound very veiled, there appears to be 
A very strong bias toward the front and center channel, any ideas?


----------



## tonyvdb

The 6db gain file ads a 6db boost to the lower frequencies around 40Hz making the sub channel a bit hotter.
Where did you have the Trinnov mic placed when you did the setup? was it on a tripod?


----------



## melmoth76

I had the mic on a leveled tripod with the red dot aimed toward the center of my screen, basically aiming to where the voice would come from if it were a stage with actors. The height of the mic was set at ear level. I was wondering if I should point my radius 225 sides towards the listening point, it's a bit of a hassle because they are wall mounted on flat mounts.

Does the 6bd profile need to be loaded onto the sherwood? , if so is there a link to the file? Thanks again for all the input, it's frustrating but fun!


----------



## tonyvdb

Look here for info and the files.
You may need to move the speakers or try putting the mic in the seat on the tripod if you did not do that.


----------



## islandman2020

Trinnov on Subs:

I have an opportunity, with a very small window of time, to buy a 9 month old Dspeaker Dual Core for 750.00. I just got in a Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov. I have not had time yet to run Trinnov's Room Correction software, but I read Trinnov is very good on dual subs which applies to me. Some seem to like it as well, or almost as well, as Audyssey XT32/Sub HT. However, I've got 48hrs to make a decision. Anyone here happen to have heard the Trinnov on subs? I don't know if I will have the time to set up Trinnov before this guy sells the Dual Core. I don't want to spend the money if I don't have to, but I don't want to miss this deal either!

Any feedback will be much appreciated!


----------



## noah katz

Trinnov in the 972 does only one sub channel; it will treat multiple subs as one.

I have two subs pre-EQ'd to match each other with a MiniDSP, then let Trinnov work with that; works fine


----------



## sub_crazy

The Dspeaker Dual Core looks pretty slick but the price is too high IMO. Trinnov does a good job on subs, not as good as XT32 IME but not too far off either. I would say do a MiniDSP like Noah mentioned, a DCX2496 or even a SMS-1 if you feel you need a little more EQ in the sub channel, all 3 can be bought for a lot less than used Dual Core price.


----------



## melmoth76

Ok, the saga continues... 

Spent a couple of hours fabricating some dual ball socket wall mounts for each of the 225 radius surrounds, re-ran trinnov and there was a definite improvement on the side channels, however......

There is a persistent distortion on each of the channels whenever sound is passed, like a slight hiss but only in conjuction with speaker activity, ie - inaudible in quiet scenes but arrives whenever a speaker has to do something.

1saleaday responded that I should ship ( at my own cost) the unit back to them, I will never , ever do business with them again ever if they are selling Sr7005's for 100 bucks.

Think its screwdriver timeaddle:


----------



## asere

How different is Trinov vs Audyssey?


----------



## tonyvdb

asere said:


> How different is Trinov vs Audyssey?


Two totally different ways of approach. Trinnov reads the room in 3 dimensions using a 5 capsule microphone unit so it (if done correctly) will actually make your speakers disappear into the room. Meaning that you should not be able to locate where the sound is coming from. Its really quite amazing.


----------



## sub_crazy

tonyvdb said:


> Two totally different ways of approach. Trinnov reads the room in 3 dimensions using a 5 capsule microphone unit so it (if done correctly) will actually make your speakers disappear into the room. Meaning that you should not be able to locate where the sound is coming from. Its really quite amazing.


Well said :T


----------



## cconklin1

tonyvdb said:


> Two totally different ways of approach. Trinnov reads the room in 3 dimensions using a 5 capsule microphone unit so it (if done correctly) will actually make your speakers disappear into the room. Meaning that you should not be able to locate where the sound is coming from. Its really quite amazing.


I gotta say I am pretty excited to try this thing out as my isuperslowsaleaday receiver finally showed up. You know that shipping is real slow when you get the credit card bill, AND have to psy it before you get the receiver. I am coming off of a Denon AVR-A100 and don't know what to expect.


----------



## bhazard

cconklin1 said:


> I gotta say I am pretty excited to try this thing out as my isuperslowsaleaday receiver finally showed up. You know that shipping is real slow when you get the credit card bill, AND have to psy it before you get the receiver. I am coming off of a Denon AVR-A100 and don't know what to expect.


I sold my Denon 4311 and kept the Sherwood. That's what you should expect.


----------



## cconklin1

bhazard said:


> I sold my Denon 4311 and kept the Sherwood. That's what you should expect.


yeah, your posts are what are keeping my hopes up. I really like xt32 with my dual subs though. We shall see. Just getting ready to lug that box down to the theater room..
Boy, will I come out ahead if I end up liking my $300 receiver versus my avr-a100!


----------



## asere

bhazard said:


> I sold my Denon 4311 and kept the Sherwood. That's what you should expect.


I might be using two subs now my hsu and kreisel. Will it work with only multeq since it eqs them as one?


----------



## bhazard

I have a dual opposed sub in one spot, so I have no idea how it will handle 2 subs. I have a feeling Trinnov will compensate somehow.


----------



## mdp

Trinnov will see both as a single unit, it can't match level on those individually. So, you need to level match each sub. After that, Trinnov will level match both subs together to mains.


----------



## bguzman

Hello, my R-972 will be arriving Tuesday and I have a question. Currently I am running an Onkyo 707 with all 11 speaker positions used. I then select a 7.1 combination for playback, PLIIz, PLIIx, or DSX wide/heights. My plan is to connect the Surround Back/Multi to a speaker selector that is connected to the SB, FH, and FW speakers. Then run Trinnov and save each setup to one of the three Positions. I am getting my self prepared for the numerous trials and resets but I think the end results will be pretty awesome. Inevitably I will need to do a reset in between positions. Will this erase any positions that are already calibrated?


----------



## sub_crazy

When you do a reset the receiver goes back to it's original settings so this will erase any previous calibrations and remove any bass target files you may have uploaded. Basically a reset will put the 972 back to it's original state that it came in when new.

What your planning on doing sounds interesting, I would definitely like to hear how it works out for you.


----------



## asere

I was told Trinov does not eq the sub like Audyssey. Does Trinov do anything for the sub?


----------



## sub_crazy

asere said:


> I was told Trinov does not eq the sub like Audyssey. Does Trinov do anything for the sub?


Trinnov does EQ the subs and does a decent job. I got a little better results with my Onkyo 5508 and XT32 on the sub channel but I still sold the Onkyo and kept the 972 because Trinnov and it's 3D re-mapping is something I cannot give up. 

I would say that is you have your speakers in the exact proper location that the Trinnov spatial re-mapping has little to nothing to correct than my choice would be Audyssey XT32. In my system XT32 did a little better job in EQ'ing the speakers and subs and overall I preferred the Onkyo 5508 for music listening.


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy said:


> When you do a reset the receiver goes back to it's original settings so this will erase any previous calibrations and remove any bass target files you may have uploaded. Basically a reset will put the 972 back to it's original state that it came in when new.
> 
> What your planning on doing sounds interesting, I would definitely like to hear how it works out for you.


I will definitely post my results. Hopefully once I get the mic set and reading the angles properly, I can get my three positions calibrated relatively problem free.

Edit:

I found this when I was looking for the bass files, it says to reset after loading the file. :huh:


tonyvdb said:


> Its ok I can try and hopefully I dont cause trouble.
> 
> Please open the attached zip file and uncompress. Please copy all of the factory.hex files to USB drive root position. (ex. E:\factory.hex)
> To update this firmware, turn ON the 972 and wait for relay click. Once you hear the relay click, change the input to USB. When NO DEVICE displayed, please insert the USB drive to the front USB slot.
> 
> Update will automatically start.
> 
> After finished, please reset the receiver by following the attached instruction.
> 
> To successfully reset, you need to start with the unit in the Standby Mode. To put
> the unit in the standby mode simply press the standby button when the unit is On or unplug the
> power cord from 120V AC and then plug it back in. Once in Standby Mode, press and hold
> down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This
> will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice
> that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM . If not, repeat the reset process


----------



## asere

sub_crazy said:


> Trinnov does EQ the subs and does a decent job. I got a little better results with my Onkyo 5508 and XT32 on the sub channel but I still sold the Onkyo and kept the 972 because Trinnov and it's 3D re-mapping is something I cannot give up.
> 
> I would say that is you have your speakers in the exact proper location that the Trinnov spatial re-mapping has little to nothing to correct than my choice would be Audyssey XT32. In my system XT32 did a little better job in EQ'ing the speakers and subs and overall I preferred the Onkyo 5508 for music listening.


How is Trinov with in ceiling speakers vs Audyssey?


----------



## bguzman

asere said:


> How is Trinov with in ceiling speakers vs Audyssey?


Having waded through this and other threads there are people using ceilings speakers with Trinnov. The speakers had aim-able tweeters from what I can recall.


----------



## cconklin1

sub_crazy said:


> When you do a reset the receiver goes back to it's original settings so this will erase any previous calibrations and remove any bass target files you may have uploaded. Basically a reset will put the 972 back to it's original state that it came in when new.
> 
> What your planning on doing sounds interesting, I would definitely like to hear how it works out for you.


I think this is not correct. I am pretty sure the bass file gets stored in the non resettable part of the software...


----------



## sub_crazy

I do a factory reset everytime I do a new Trinnov calibration. After the calibration is done I check my sub levels with the sms1 then load the 6db bass file and recheck my sub levels and they always increase. With both of my 972's I have to reload the bass files each time I reset the receiver. 

I should also mention that I check the sub levels to make sure they increase before and after I load a bass file. The reason for this is it does not always load even though it says it is finished. NEVER reset the unit after loading the bass file as not only will you lose the bass file but your calibration as well and all your settings. I usually just put the 972 into standby, remove the usb drive and turn it back on and verify the 6db bass file was loaded. This is one of the quirks with the 972, it does not always load the bass file.

Edit: typing fast on my phone so excuse any typo's


----------



## cconklin1

sub_crazy said:


> I do a factory reset everytime I do a new Trinnov calibration. After the calibration is done I check my sub levels with the sms1 then load the 6db bass file and recheck my sub levels and they always increase. With both of my 972's I have to reload the bass files each time I reset the receiver.
> 
> I should also mention that I check the sub levels to make sure they increase before and after I load a bass file. The reason for this is it does not always load even though it says it is finished. NEVER reset the unit after loading the bass file as not only will you lose the bass file but your calibration as well and all your settings. I usually just put the 972 into standby, remove the usb drive and turn it back on and verify the 6db bass file was loaded. This is one of the quirks with the 972, it does not always load the bass file.
> 
> Edit: typing fast on my phone so excuse any typo's


Ok, but then I am really confused because the very next thing you are supposed to do AFTER loading the bass file IS DO A RESET!!! Ahhhhhhh this is starting to drive me nuts! Why would Sherwood say that?


----------



## sub_crazy

The person who said to do a factory reset was mistaken. Was it written in this thread? If it was then someone should send that poster a pm so that they can edit the post to avoid more confusion.


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy said:


> The person who said to do a factory reset was mistaken. Was it written in this thread? If it was then someone should send that poster a pm so that they can edit the post to avoid more confusion.


It is on page seven.



tonyvdb said:


> Its ok I can try and hopefully I dont cause trouble.
> 
> Please open the attached zip file and uncompress. Please copy all of the factory.hex files to USB drive root position. (ex. E:\factory.hex)
> To update this firmware, turn ON the 972 and wait for relay click. Once you hear the relay click, change the input to USB. When NO DEVICE displayed, please insert the USB drive to the front USB slot.
> 
> Update will automatically start.
> 
> After finished, please reset the receiver by following the attached instruction.
> 
> To successfully reset, you need to start with the unit in the Standby Mode. To put
> the unit in the standby mode simply press the standby button when the unit is On or unplug the
> power cord from 120V AC and then plug it back in. Once in Standby Mode, press and hold
> down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This
> will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice
> that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM . If not, repeat the reset process


----------



## cconklin1

ok, finally finished reading all sixty pages of this thread as well as the manual and the trinov notes.
heading down to do some tweaking! 
top two best things I learned were using the different video inputs to save different trinov calculations and NOT to reset the receiver after loading the bass files..


----------



## asere

Trinnov does not have any features like Aydysseys dynamic volume or dynamic eq right?


----------



## bguzman

asere said:


> Trinnov does not have any features like Aydysseys dynamic volume or dynamic eq right?


No, but it does have DRC/Night Mode and Cinema EQ.


----------



## asere

bguzman said:


> No, but it does have DRC/Night Mode and Cinema EQ.


 Not the same thing! With Audyssey as you lower the volume you don't lose the bass or dialog.


----------



## bguzman

Why are you yelling? True Dynamic EQ is different, but Dynamic Volume is a form of DRC. Where did I say they where the same. "Take it down a notch Scotty"


----------



## asere

bguzman said:


> Why are you yelling? True Dynamic EQ is different, Dynamic Volume is a form of DRC. Where did I say they where the same. "Take it down a notch Scotty"


I apologize didn't mean to come across as yelling. I was hoping the Sherwood had something as good or better.


----------



## bguzman

asere said:


> I apologize didn't mean to come across as yelling. I was hoping the Sherwood had something as good or better.


No worries man, just messin' with ya. I've used Audyssey and love it. I'm giving the R-972 a run to try Trinnov and I guess I am some sort of masochist. :coocoo:


----------



## asere

Someone mentioned that with Trinnov it creates a 3d effect were you can't tell were the sound is coming from. Is this correct?


----------



## bguzman

asere said:


> Someone mentioned that with Trinnov it creates a 3d effect were you can't tell were the sound is coming from. Is this correct?


Yes, once it is set up correctly, that is what all the fuss is about.


----------



## asere

bguzman said:


> Yes, once it is set up correctly, that is what all the fuss is about.


Does the 3d effect go beyond were the speakers are? Like in my case the speakers are in the family room but the family room is open to the kitchen. I have Audyssey but Audyssey does not give 3d effect.


----------



## tonyvdb

Depending on how you have the speakers set up it can give the effect that the sound is being thrown into another space but thats something that we cant answer as it would be very dependent on your room.


----------



## asere

tonyvdb said:


> Depending on how you have the speakers set up it can give the effect that the sound is being thrown into another space but thats something that we cant answer as it would be very dependent on your room.


What would be better to use Trinniv or Audyssey for in ceiling speakers?


----------



## tonyvdb

My personal opinion is the a receiver like the Onkyo 818 that has Audyssey XT32 would be far less hassle to set up however the Trinnov room EQ is a whole different beast and really does a great job with odd shaped rooms and placement of speakers. The issue is that the R972 is a bit querky as I have said many time and has its issues in implementation of some features.


----------



## asere

tonyvdb said:


> My personal opinion is the a receiver like the Onkyo 818 that has Audyssey XT32 would be far less hassle to set up however the Trinnov room EQ is a whole different beast and really does a great job with odd shaped rooms and placement of speakers. The issue is that the R972 is a bit querky as I have said many time and has its issues in implementation of some features.


In my case placement of speakers is a factor since I cannot move the in ceiling. What makes me think twice about trying the Trinnov is one it does not eq the sub and two it has no dynamic eq/volume like my Audyssey, however I'm very tempted to try Trinnov.


----------



## bhazard

asere said:


> In my case placement of speakers is a factor since I cannot move the in ceiling. What makes me think twice about trying the Trinnov is one it does not eq the sub and two it has no dynamic eq/volume like my Audyssey, however I'm very tempted to try Trinnov.


It EQs the sub down to 19hz just fine.

What you lose in Dynamic EQ, you gain with 3D remapping. Dynamic Volume is just DRC.


----------



## sub_crazy

I liked having Dynamic EQ but I do not miss it personally and have not seen anyone else moan about the fact that Trinnov does not have it. 

As mentioned earlier Trinnov DOES eq the subs and does a fine job of it.

As far as what kind of job Trinnov will do with your ceiling speakers is not an answer anyone can really answer for you unless they have the same room and ceiling speaker placement. My guess would be that Trinnov would do a great job with your ceiling speakers but not having any experience with your kind of set-up is only a guess.


----------



## Anthony

I have in-ceiling surrounds and rears, but on wall fronts and soon to be center (above TV).

The 3D effect works fine, the rears sound like they are above you, but not in ceiling. The fronts, though, sound like they are wider than they really are, so the WOW effect is that the speakers truly disappear.

I leave mine in 2D mode, since I don't have a wide spread of 3D, but the 2D is impressive too. Basically it can't pull the sound image lower than your lowest speakers (or higher than your highest ones). But if you had floorstanding fronts, a higher center, and surrounds on the back wall and rears up high, it could make it sound like they were all on the same plane.


----------



## asere

Anthony said:


> I have in-ceiling surrounds and rears, but on wall fronts and soon to be center (above TV).
> 
> The 3D effect works fine, the rears sound like they are above you, but not in ceiling. The fronts, though, sound like they are wider than they really are, so the WOW effect is that the speakers truly disappear.
> 
> I leave mine in 2D mode, since I don't have a wide spread of 3D, but the 2D is impressive too. Basically it can't pull the sound image lower than your lowest speakers (or higher than your highest ones). But if you had floorstanding fronts, a higher center, and surrounds on the back wall and rears up high, it could make it sound like they were all on the same plane.


I read something about pointing a red dot. How can the red dot point at the in ceiling speaker?


----------



## tonyvdb

No, you point the red dot at the cente channel location or where you want the sound of the center channel to come from.


----------



## cconklin1

oh my....NOW I see what the hub bub is about with this thing. 3D remapping is AWESOME!!!!! I always could kind of tell my center channel was lower than the rest of my speakers due to my screen, but NOW!!! It's like it is coming from behind the screen where it should be..Got some more playing to do..
Does anyone know on a 5.1 soundtrack if Trinnov uses the back surround channels? In my first session with Star Trek 2009 I noticed that they were not outputting anything...
more to come..


----------



## sub_crazy

It is really hard to explain to people the effect Spatial Re-mapping does except to say that it creates a soundfield were you are immersed in sound. It really makes the speakers disappear, not something easily explained until you go back to Audyssey or another EQ and you can pinpoint speaker placement. 

Trinnov will use any channel it needs to in order to create the soundfield it is trying to duplicate. I was using the Disney WOW BD to try and figure out what level was reference for the 972 and found this out. The calibration tones are discrete with the WOW disc but with 3D re-mapping engaged if you walk around and listen to various speakers up close you will hear some of them outputting noise that you would not have figured. For my side surrounds they are lower than they should be so when the calibration went to the sides the backs also output a signal so it could create a soundfield in which the sides sounded higher than they actually were. I bet with your set-up and your center being lower that if you sent a discrete calibration signal from a test disc to your center that your mains would also play the tone. If you listened from your MLP then it would sound like your center is only playing until you walk up and hear the mains playing as well.

One thing that I wish was different was that you can't play internal test tones after you run a Trinnov calibration. This was the main reason I used a calibration disc to find out were the reference level was on the volume as it is different than others were it is always 0. The catch is it is not always the same, depends on how the calibration goes so if you make changes in your system you will have to re-run the test tones on a disc to find out.


----------



## cconklin1

sub_crazy said:


> It is really hard to explain to people the effect Spatial Re-mapping does except to say that it creates a soundfield were you are immersed in sound. It really makes the speakers disappear, not something easily explained until you go back to Audyssey or another EQ and you can pinpoint speaker placement.
> 
> Trinnov will use any channel it needs to in order to create the soundfield it is trying to duplicate. I was using the Disney WOW BD to try and figure out what level was reference for the 972 and found this out. The calibration tones are discrete with the WOW disc but with 3D re-mapping engaged if you walk around and listen to various speakers up close you will hear some of them outputting noise that you would not have figured. For my side surrounds they are lower than they should be so when the calibration went to the sides the backs also output a signal so it could create a soundfield in which the sides sounded higher than they actually were. I bet with your set-up and your center being lower that if you sent a discrete calibration signal from a test disc to your center that your mains would also play the tone. If you listened from your MLP then it would sound like your center is only playing until you walk up and hear the mains playing as well.
> 
> One thing that I wish was different was that you can't play internal test tones after you run a Trinnov calibration. This was the main reason I used a calibration disc to find out were the reference level was on the volume as it is different than others were it is always 0. The catch is it is not always the same, depends on how the calibration goes so if you make changes in your system you will have to re-run the test tones on a disc to find out.


Yep, just learned that about the test tones. I was going down to try and see the sub level before i added the "6db boost file" and saw that I could not use the test tones with Trinnov engaged. I didn't figure it made any sense to try it with it off as supposedly the file only applies to Trinnov. 
Other thing I noticed was that is you are using DTS-MA 5.1 or Dolby True_HD 5.1 it does NOT use your rear surrounds. Either with Trinnov or without. I thought that odd but did not notice it when I was watching a movie or feel that I was missing out. The only way I actually knew was that I was walking around to each speaker. 
Yes, switching between inputs is extremely painfully slow but not a deal breaker for me. The couple test disc I popped in sounded GREAT with 3D remapping.
Before I go back down I am popping over to Amazon to get the Disney test disc for more playing. Overall, very happy so far, especially at $299! I wish I would have ordered two! I also popped over to AC4less and pooped the $50 for the end caps. Painful that two pieces of wood cost 1/6 of my receiver though...


----------



## sub_crazy

cconklin1 said:


> Other thing I noticed was that is you are using DTS-MA 5.1 or Dolby True_HD 5.1 it does NOT use your rear surrounds. Either with Trinnov or without. I thought that odd but did not notice it when I was watching a movie or feel that I was missing out. The only way I actually knew was that I was walking around to each speaker.


The Disney WOW disc is DTS-MA which I am pretty sure what it was using for the test tones as well. In my set-up it does use the back surrounds a lot with 5.1 DTS-MA and TrueHD but that is probably because my side surrounds are lower than they should be so it is compensating.


----------



## asere

sub_crazy said:


> The Disney WOW disc is DTS-MA which I am pretty sure what it was using for the test tones as well. In my set-up it does use the back surrounds a lot with 5.1 DTS-MA and TrueHD but that is probably because my side surrounds are lower than they should be so it is compensating.


I don't understand you can't hear the surrounds unless you get near them. then what's the point shouldn't you be able to hear the surround without having to get near them?


----------



## cconklin1

hmmmm, I may have some investigation to do. those of you who have rear surrounds, are they active when using a 5.1 HD source such as Dolby true-hd or DTS-MA? mine are not in use. I can walk up to them and they are definitely not outputting sound. I can also not engage any other sound field when Trinovv it's in use...


----------



## sub_crazy

asere said:


> I don't understand you can't hear the surrounds unless you get near them. then what's the point shouldn't you be able to hear the surround without having to get near them?


That is not what I was trying to say. 

When I am sitting in the main listening position it sounds like the tones are coming from the side speaker only. It is only when I get out of my seat and walk around that I can hear the back surrounds working as well to make the illusion that my side surround is higher than it actually is. I have my side surrounds a couple of feet lower than they should be but my back surrounds are mounted at the appropriate height so they help the side surrounds to sound as if they were also at the appropriate height. Trinnov's spatial re-mapping helps to make it sound as if all your speakers are mounted in there appropriate locations even if they are not which is the case for most of us. 

What you have to understand is Trinnov measures the location of your speakers not only horizontally but vertically as well and if they are not in there proper position then Trinnov compensates for that when you engage the 3D re-mapping. Trinnov can explain this better than I can so if you google them you can read what the Spatial Re-mapping is all about.


----------



## sub_crazy

cconklin1 said:


> hmmmm, I may have some investigation to do. those of you who have rear surrounds, are they active when using a 5.1 HD source such as Dolby true-hd or DTS-MA? mine are not in use. I can walk up to them and they are definitely not outputting sound. I can also not engage any other sound field when Trinovv it's in use...


I will have to try it out and report back later. It could be that your surrounds are positioned correctly and Trinnov does not need to use your back surrounds to compensate?

Do you mean you only when playing TrueHD and DTS-MA that you cannot engage any other sound field like PLIIX? I don't think I have ever tried that so will have to try it out later as well. I know I can engage all the different effects when listening to CD's and SACD's, I personally like Neural for music, my favorite so far.


----------



## asere

sub_crazy said:


> That is not what I was trying to say.
> 
> When I am sitting in the main listening position it sounds like the tones are coming from the side speaker only. It is only when I get out of my seat and walk around that I can hear the back surrounds working as well to make the illusion that my side surround is higher than it actually is. I have my side surrounds a couple of feet lower than they should be but my back surrounds are mounted at the appropriate height so they help the side surrounds to sound as if they were also at the appropriate height. Trinnov's spatial re-mapping helps to make it sound as if all your speakers are mounted in there appropriate locations even if they are not which is the case for most of us.
> 
> What you have to understand is Trinnov measures the location of your speakers not only horizontally but vertically as well and if they are not in there proper position then Trinnov compensates for that when you engage the 3D re-mapping. Trinnov can explain this better than I can so if you google them you can read what the Spatial Re-mapping is all about.


Got it now thanks! How will it remap in ceiling speakers?


----------



## cconklin1

sub_crazy said:


> I will have to try it out and report back later. It could be that your surrounds are positioned correctly and Trinnov does not need to use your back surrounds to compensate?
> 
> Do you mean you only when playing TrueHD and DTS-MA that you cannot engage any other sound field like PLIIX? I don't think I have ever tried that so will have to try it out later as well. I know I can engage all the different effects when listening to CD's and SACD's, I personally like Neural for music, my favorite so far.


correct. I can not engage any other sound mode when playing dts-ma or Dolby truehd whether Trinnov is engaged or not. 5.1 soundtracks use only 5 speakers while 7.1 use all seven..


----------



## sub_crazy

asere said:


> Got it now thanks! How will it remap in ceiling speakers?


I am only guessing that it would work better than any other EQ since no one else does Spatial re-mapping.


----------



## sub_crazy

cconklin1 said:


> correct. I can not engage any other sound mode when playing dts-ma or Dolby truehd whether Trinnov is engaged or not. 5.1 soundtracks use only 5 speakers while 7.1 use all seven..


I just tried it out and in my set-up it outputs sound in the back surrounds with 5.1 DTS-MA and TrueHD soundtracks. I cannot engage any other surround format though, each time I try with the front panel surround mode selector it just says "Trinnov Engaged" or something like that. I will say that the sound that comes from my backs with 5.1 tracks is low in volume but I can get my ear right next to it and hear the sound.

You do have to make sacrifices with the 972 if you are expecting every bell and whistle. I am willing to put up with the quirks and flaws because the sound is so good, if not I would dump it in a heartbeat.


----------



## cconklin1

sub_crazy said:


> I just tried it out and in my set-up it outputs sound in the back surrounds with 5.1 DTS-MA and TrueHD soundtracks. I cannot engage any other surround format though, each time I try with the front panel surround mode selector it just says "Trinnov Engaged" or something like that. I will say that the sound that comes from my backs with 5.1 tracks is low in volume but I can get my ear right next to it and hear the sound.
> 
> You do have to make sacrifices with the 972 if you are expecting every bell and whistle. I am willing to put up with the quirks and flaws because the sound is so good, if not I would dump it in a heartbeat.


Hmm, maybe mine is outputting sound but it might be extremely low compared to the other speakers. I guess I will wait for my WOW disc and play some more this weekend. Thanks for checking on your system! I really like it so far and as long as I don't have to do another 39 calibrations I will be a happy guy! LOVE the way it lifts my center channel to the middle of my screen! That alone is almost enough for me to keep it!


----------



## bguzman

My R-972 is in the house. Spent last night running Trinnov on my three speaker configurations. I am using a speaker selector to route the Surround Back/Multi to SB, FH, and FW speakers. By the time I had good calibrations for each set up it was to late to stretch out the receiver and see what Trinnov is all about. Tonight can't get here so enough.


----------



## cconklin1

bguzman said:


> My R-972 is in the house. Spent last night running Trinnov on my three speaker configurations. I am using a speaker selector to route the Surround Back/Multi to SB, FH, and FW speakers. By the time I had good calibrations for each set up it was to late to stretch out the receiver and see what Trinnov is all about. Tonight can't get here so enough.


let us know how you make out. I am curious to hear your results with all loudandthose speakers..


----------



## asere

cconklin1 said:


> let us know how you make out. I am curious to hear your results with all loudandthose speakers..


No 4 k ready right?


----------



## bguzman

cconklin1 said:


> let us know how you make out. I am curious to hear your results with all loudandthose speakers..


I will. I was able to get some testing done last night but noticed that I had Zone 2 on, it's now off. I did notice that the sound is very different than the Onkyo that it replaces. The sound is much more detailed and the vocals/voices are more prominent. More testing and fun tonight. :hsd:


----------



## asere

bguzman said:


> I will. I was able to get some testing done last night but noticed that I had Zone 2 on, it's now off. I did notice that the sound is very different than the Onkyo that it replaces. The sound is much more detailed and the vocals/voices are more prominent. More testing and fun tonight. :hsd:


I have a	denon but never had Onkyo. Is the amp on the Sherwood superior then the Onkyo like the 818 model?


----------



## cconklin1

asere said:


> No 4 k ready right?


no


----------



## bguzman

asere said:


> I have a	denon but never had Onkyo. Is the amp on the Sherwood superior then the Onkyo like the 818 model?


I'm not an expert on the insides of these things but it's not just the amp, you have to factor in the preamp and DSP all in combination. Here is my upgrade path with regards to AVRs. Sony DG800, Sony DG910, Denon AVR-790, Onkyo SR707, Sherwood/Newcastle R-972. The sound is by far the most detailed with the R-972. The 707 is more bass heavy, an Audyssey trait. I will say that if you are very patient, have lots of time on your hands, and are willing to take the extra time that this receiver entails, then go for it. I have this in a dedicated HT where I will mostly be operating it myself. I would not put this in my living room, where my Yamaha V765 is, because I would be getting phone call after phone call. :hissyfit: Like some one said in one of the R-972 threads, this receiver is like an exotic car that requires extra knowledge and lots of time. In the living room all I need is a Honda.


----------



## tonyvdb

asere said:


> I have a denon but never had Onkyo. Is the amp on the Sherwood superior then the Onkyo like the 818 model?


Im going to say as far also brute output for the amps the Onkyo 818 would be a bit better and would also be less troublesome as far as plug and go.


----------



## asere

bguzman said:


> I'm not an expert on the insides of these things but it's not just the amp, you have to factor in the preamp and DSP all in combination. Here is my upgrade path with regards to AVRs. Sony DG800, Sony DG910, Denon AVR-790, Onkyo SR707, Sherwood/Newcastle R-972. The sound is by far the most detailed with the R-972. The 707 is more bass heavy, an Audyssey trait. I will say that if you are very patient, have lots of time on your hands, and are willing to take the extra time that this receiver entails, then go for it. I have this in a dedicated HT where I will mostly be operating it myself. I would not put this in my living room, where my Yamaha V765 is, because I would be getting phone call after phone call. :hissyfit: Like some one said in one of the R-972 threads, this receiver is like an exotic car that requires extra knowledge and lots of time. In the living room all I need is a Honda.


Not in the living room because others can mess with settings and requires time to set up in case someone else want to watch tv for example?


----------



## cconklin1

This is NOT the receiver for you wife and family. This receiver has its quirks and foibles but the payoff is worth the trials and tribulations FOR ME. I do have a couple of good Trinnov setting anf am extremely happy with the sound. Initial HDMI handshakes can be BRUTAL, but once it is synced I had no issues. I never thought it was lacking in power either and I came from a Denon avr-a100, and before that a 4810 and before that an Onkyo 3008.
I am beat from staying up late last night so probably won't log any time with it tonight but will hopefully do so this weekend...


----------



## Stereojeff

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



tonyvdb said:


> So, maybe someone can tell me what the plastic panel thats on the top left of the receiver seen in this photo is for. Its not covering a hole and its not structural.
> Jack and Joe, does yours have it?


As far as I know, the unit failed safety certification for top-panel temperature and the extra screen was added to lower the outer temperature to pass.

Jeff


----------



## cconklin1

tonyvdb said:


> Im going to say as far also brute output for the amps the Onkyo 818 would be a bit better and would also be less troublesome as far as plug and go.


I am looking at you signature and thinking that I would swap receivers in those systems... I really think the 972 excels in the home theater domain...


----------



## ALMFamily

cconklin1 said:


> I am looking at you signature and thinking that I would swap receivers in those systems... I really think the 972 excels in the home theater domain...


Depends on the room layout IMO - I can tell you for certain that the 972 is by far the best AVR for my living room due to the vaulted ceiling and open floor plan. Trinnov has really made a huge difference with its 3D mapping.


----------



## typ44q

*Re: Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 impressions*



Stereojeff said:


> As far as I know, the unit failed safety certification for top-panel temperature and the extra screen was added to lower the outer temperature to pass.
> 
> Jeff


Thats crazy if it is true, my Onkyo 805 gets MUCH hotter than my 972... much


----------



## asere

ALMFamily said:


> Depends on the room layout IMO - I can tell you for certain that the 972 is by far the best AVR for my living room due to the vaulted ceiling and open floor plan. Trinnov has really made a huge difference with its 3D mapping.


I also have vaulted ceilings with in ceiling speakers in family room. The family room is open to the kitchen combined its 5100 cf. I currently have Audyssey but might benefit more if I get Trinnov.


----------



## cconklin1

asere said:


> I also have vaulted ceilings with in ceiling speakers in family room. The family room is open to the kitchen combined its 5100 cf. I currently have Audyssey but might benefit more if I get Trinnov.


totally depends on your speaker layout in the front.. if all three of your speakers areceiling mounted, then I doubt Trinnov will do much for you as it won't have any way of centering and bringing down the front sound field, at least that is how it was explained to me...

in my case my center channel speaker was below my projection screen but my front left and front right speakers were great in their position. Trinnov did a fantastic job of "lifting" the center channel and firmly anchoring it to the center of the screen...but it had the front left and front right to help with that...


----------



## tonyvdb

cconklin1 said:


> I am looking at you signature and thinking that I would swap receivers in those systems... I really think the 972 excels in the home theater domain...


the biggest issue for me was the fact the I really like the THX modes that come with my Onkyo 805 and I and very happy with how it sounds just as is so as the saying goes "if it aint broke, dont fix it"


----------



## asere

cconklin1 said:


> totally depends on your speaker layout in the front.. if all three of your speakers address ceiling mounted, then I doubt Trinnov will do much for you as it won't have any way of centering and bringing down the front soundfield, at least that is how out was explained to me...
> 
> in my case my center channel speaker was below my projection screen but my front left and front right speakers were great in . their position. Trinnov did a fantastic job of "lifting" the center channel and firmly anchoring it took the center of the screen...but it had the front left and front right to help with that...


the center in ceiling speaker is facing down flat on the flat part of the ceiling that is flat and the left and right are diagonal on the vaulted part of the ceiling.


----------



## bhazard

sub_crazy said:


> I just tried it out and in my set-up it outputs sound in the back surrounds with 5.1 DTS-MA and TrueHD soundtracks. I cannot engage any other surround format though, each time I try with the front panel surround mode selector it just says "Trinnov Engaged" or something like that. I will say that the sound that comes from my backs with 5.1 tracks is low in volume but I can get my ear right next to it and hear the sound.
> 
> You do have to make sacrifices with the 972 if you are expecting every bell and whistle. I am willing to put up with the quirks and flaws because the sound is so good, if not I would dump it in a heartbeat.


Turn off "auto surround" in your input, and you can select sound modes.


----------



## bhazard

cconklin1 said:


> correct. I can not engage any other sound mode when playing dts-ma or Dolby truehd whether Trinnov is engaged or not. 5.1 soundtracks use only 5 speakers while 7.1 use all seven..


Make sure in system setup you set your amp to Surround Back.

Turn off auto surround under each input as well.


----------



## sub_crazy

bhazard said:


> Turn off "auto surround" in your input, and you can select sound modes.


I will have to give that a try tonight. thanks for the tip.


----------



## cconklin1

bhazard said:


> Make sure in system setup you set your amp to Surround Back.
> 
> Turn off auto surround under each input as well.


I am 99% sure I have auto surround "off" and in the main set up for speakers it has a choice between sb/z2 (or something like this) and sb. I know that I switched it to SB as I only do one zone with this receiver.


----------



## bguzman

Watched Skyfall last night . Awesome AQ with glorious LFE action with a fantastic score like a cherry on top, just awesome. The R-972 with Trinnov is pretty amazing. The sound is exceptionally detailed yet can not be localized. It is very much worth the day and a half it took me to get it set up and I have barely scratched the surface. It is as close to being in a theater as I have been able to come thus far in my HT journey. As great as the sound is, this beast is not for the faint of heart. The menu and overall navigation is convoluted and arcane. It takes several seconds to sync onto the video and a little more to get the audio when channel surfing or the codec changes in previews etc. It would never fly in the living room for the wife and kids but for music and movies I'm willing to accept the quirks for the audio heaven it creates. I'll fine tune it over the next few weeks to boot. Plus there is an added benefit, the rest of the family has absolutely no patients when it comes to this stuff so that means they will more than likely leave well enough alone.


----------



## Drudge

Glad you like it!


----------



## asere

bguzman said:


> Watched Skyfall last night . Awesome AQ with glorious LFE action with a fantastic score like a cherry on top, just awesome. The R-972 with Trinnov is pretty amazing. The sound is exceptionally detailed yet can not be localized. It is very much worth the day and a half it took me to get it set up and I have barely scratched the surface. It is as close to being in a theater as I have been able to come thus far in my HT journey. As great as the sound is, this beast is not for the faint of heart. The menu and overall navigation is convoluted and arcane. It takes several seconds to sync onto the video and a little more to get the audio when channel surfing or the codec changes in previews etc. It would never fly in the living room for the wife and kids but for music and movies I'm willing to accept the quirks for the audio heaven it creates. I'll fine tune it over the next few weeks to boot. Plus there is an added benefit, the rest of the family has absolutely no patients when it comes to this stuff so that means they will more than likely leave well enough alone.


So what makes the receiver so hard to keep in the family room? Is it because its too hard to set up system with Trinnov? Once you set up the system is it hard to mistakenly reconfigure like if a family member gets a hold of remote. Someone please explain. This will determine if I buy one or not.


----------



## cconklin1

asere said:


> So what makes the receiver so hard to keep in the family room? Is it because its too hard to set up system with Trinnov? Once you set up the system is it hard to mistakenly reconfigure like if a family member gets a hold of remote. Someone please explain. This will determine if I buy one or not.


this has been gone over ad nauseum several times. Go back and read the quirks and foibles of this receiver that make the WAF very low...


----------



## asere

cconklin1 said:


> this has been gone over ad nauseum several times. Go back and read the quirks and foibles of this receiver that make the WAF very low...


WAF very low! No Trinnov for me then!


----------



## cconklin1

a Buddy of mine posted this over at AVS and emailed it to me. I am cutting and pasting it and going to try it out as well:

Fellow Masochists! I have yet more info to impart to you to further confuse and astound you:

While holding "display" and "enter/memo" and turning the left knob to the right to view software information:

SYS MICOM 1.47i
XM PART VER 2.16
DSP PART 10/07/15
DSP FLASH 090318/391119 (for 6db boost file) 691119 (for 3db boost file) or 991119 (for FLAT boost file) MORE ON THIS LATER!!!
HDMI PART 1.11
DVP PART VER 09/08/19
972 USA M 50kHz RDS OFF AM 10kHz NTSC
UPGRADE
OR SCALER UPGRADE

Now the funny thing is someone said that doing a factory reset by holding the "standby" and "memo/enter" buttons for 3 seconds will reset to factory. I have tried on all three versions above and that does NOT seem to be the case. If I reset while having 391119, it still reads 391119 after a reset or even two resets. Same with the other two firmwares. I have no way to AUDIBLY confirm that this is the case, but that is what I notice when viewing the software info. I now plan on going back down, reloading the 6db file and rerunning Trinnov. I am still confused as to whether I should run Trinnov FIRST then apply the boost file, or do the boost file, then run Trinnov, but going to do the former.


So what do you guys think????


----------



## sub_crazy

There is another way to check the firmware without doing a reset:

_*To check firmware, in Standby mode, press DISPLAY and ENTER/MEMO button on the unit together.
Turn the multi control knob to the right. FW, DSP FLASH, etc will be displayed.

DSP FLASH 090318/991119.
If you see 391119, it means that +6dB is applied. If it shows 691119, it means that +3dB is applied.*_

I always use my SMS-1 to make sure the boost was applied and sometimes it take 3 or 4 uploads via the USB drive to finally get the boost. Even when my 972 displays 391119 for the +6 the boost is not there all the time which I confirm with my SMS-1. You can really tell a difference just in normal playback if the +6 boost is applied, without it the bass is disappointing. 

Maybe it is just a small amount of 972's that does not always apply the bass files properly? The one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people experience different problems with the 972. There are a lot of problems I see people complain about that I have never experienced with either of my 2 972's.


----------



## cconklin1

sub_crazy said:


> There is another way to check the firmware without doing a reset:
> 
> _*To check firmware, in Standby mode, press DISPLAY and ENTER/MEMO button on the unit together.
> Turn the multi control knob to the right. FW, DSP FLASH, etc will be displayed.
> 
> DSP FLASH 090318/991119.
> If you see 391119, it means that +6dB is applied. If it shows 691119, it means that +3dB is applied.*_
> 
> I always use my SMS-1 to make sure the boost was applied and sometimes it take 3 or 4 uploads via the USB drive to finally get the boost. Even when my 972 displays 391119 for the +6 the boost is not there all the time which I confirm with my SMS-1. You can really tell a difference just in normal playback if the +6 boost is applied, without it the bass is disappointing.
> 
> Maybe it is just a small amount of 972's that does not always apply the bass files properly? The one thing I have noticed is that a lot of people experience different problems with the 972. There are a lot of problems I see people complain about that I have never experienced with either of my 2 972's.


I wish I had a sms....:rant:

And yes, I know that you do not need to do a reset to check the firmware, I was just posting that it seemed that the 6db file "stuck" with a reset...I do agree that it is a noticeable difference. It's too bad the test tones do not work when you have Trinnov engaged...


----------



## asere

I think I'll stick to Audyssey lol!


----------



## cconklin1

asere said:


> I think I'll stick to Audyssey lol!


Audyssey xt32 was great in my Denon, but for movies I am totally sold on Trinnov. I just got all three calibrations locked in. My center channel started a 2 degrees, then I got it at 1 degree, then finally at 0. All other setting within a db of each other. Fired up my Dune player with 2TB's of movies I like to demo for people and ran through a bunch of clips with 3D mapping engaged. Appears my 6db bass file loaded as I had tons of bass where appropriate! Of course I did have to switch from away from the dune input and then back to it after changing movies as the HDMI handshake was quirky (WAF factor=ZERO) A minor annoyance but as I am not normally flipping through movies one I can live with. on DTS-MA 5.1 and Dolby Tru-HD 5.1 tracks my rear surround ARE engaged. However, there is no way to change any sound modes when Trinnov is on, which makes sense as it would defeat the whole purpose of Trinnov. Changing the "auto surround" to on or of makes no difference contrary to some posters advice here. I am also using a Darbee Darblet at the Sherwood HDMI output via a 1 foot monoprice hdmi cable that is about 5 years old which in turn is then hooked up to a 25 foot "bluerigger" HDMI cable I got from Amazon to my Panny 7000 projector. NO issues to report on that front..
Have I mentioned that I lioke 3D mapping?


----------



## cconklin1

bhazard said:


> Make sure in system setup you set your amp to Surround Back.
> 
> Turn off auto surround under each input as well.


Done and Done. Makes no difference on my 972, Once Trinnov is engaged you can not change any other sound modes while playing a DTS-MA or Dolby TRU-HD disc...Don't care though, because I honestly don't think it could sound much better. But I do like tweaking...
Pushing the surround buttons on the remote does nothing...


----------



## primetimeguy

cconklin1 said:


> on DTS-MA 5.1 and Dolby Tru-HD 5.1 tracks my rear surround ARE engaged.


So this must be simply because of the 3D Mapping since PLIIx or nothing else is engaged? Theory would say that if your speakers were perfectly location that only 5.1 channels would be used for 5.1 content?


----------



## cconklin1

primetimeguy said:


> So this must be simply because of the 3D Mapping since PLIIx or nothing else is engaged? Theory would say that if your speakers were perfectly location that only 5.1 channels would be used for 5.1 content?


sounds reasonable enough to me! I can not engage any other surround mode while Trinnov is in play, but I am ok with that!
later I will go down and use a setting that does not use the Trinnov and I imagine I WILL be able to do other surround modes but I am out of time to play now..


----------



## Drudge

Did you try switching the player to internally decode and then output PCM and switch the R-972 to accept PCM without the auto surround selected?Does it allow to select PLIIx then?


----------



## cconklin1

Drudge said:


> Did you try switching the player to internally decode and then output PCM and switch the R-972 to accept PCM without the auto surround selected?Does it allow to select PLIIx then?


nope..


----------



## asere

What exactly is the problem with the codecs while flipping channels?


----------



## cconklin1

asere said:


> What exactly is the problem with the codecs while flipping channels?


What do you care? Your'e nopt getting one because WAF factor is very low! 

It is simply the fact that the audio cuts out when it switches codecs and relocks in on the audio. Very annoying to channel surfers...(a total non issue for me as I am NOT a channel surfer)


----------



## asere

cconklin1 said:


> What do you care? Your'e nopt getting one because WAF factor is very low!
> 
> It is simply the fact that the audio cuts out when it switches codecs and relocks in on the audio. Very annoying to channel surfers...(a total non issue for me as I am NOT a channel surfer)


Normally with any other avr as you change channels there is a slight pause. Are you saying with the Sherwood it takes longer than that? Why does it do that?


----------



## cconklin1

asere said:


> Normally with any other avr as you change channels there is a slight pause. Are you saying with the Sherwood it takes longer than that? Why does it do that?


beats me! I blame it on HDMI handshakes, but what the do I know! I don't surf channels so its no an issue for me..


----------



## asere

cconklin1 said:


> beats me! I blame it on HDMI handshakes, but what the do I know! I don't surf channels so its no an issue for me..


Too bad such a receiver has so many issues. I wonder why Trinnov has not been incorporated in other receivers.


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## cconklin1

asere said:


> Too bad such a receiver has so many issues. I wonder why Trinnov has not been incorporated in other receivers.


Yep, for some people the issues are a deal breaker. For others simply an annoyance. I fall into the latter part. I LOVE this thing now that I have it dialed in and everything working as expected. I thought the previous poster was kinda full of crapola when he said I would end up selling my Denon AVR-A100 and keep this! Go figure!


----------



## asere

cconklin1 said:


> Yep, for some people the issues are a deal breaker. For others simply an annoyance. I fall into the latter part. I LOVE this thing now that I have it dialed in and everything working as expected. I thought the previous poster was kinda full of crapola when he said I would end up selling my Denon AVR-A100 and keep this! Go figure!


What is difficult setting up Trinnov? Is there more to set up after running Trinnov?


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## bguzman

cconklin1 said:


> Yep, for some people the issues are a deal breaker. For others simply an annoyance. I fall into the latter part. I LOVE this thing now that I have it dialed in and everything working as expected. I thought the previous poster was kinda full of crapola when he said I would end up selling my Denon AVR-A100 and keep this! Go figure!


+1 on the loving it. The sound is very detailed yet can't be localized. With my last receiver I could set my channel levels by listening to the sound. Now the sound envelopes the room and is all around you. It is as close to a theater as I have been able to get with this sickness, err, hobby.

On another note on a whim I loaded the +6db file again. It loaded just as it did the first time but the bass was definitely more prominent. My advice when in doubt load the file again. Happy tweeking.


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## sub_crazy

bguzman said:


> +1 on the loving it. The sound is very detailed yet can't be localized. With my last receiver I could set my channel levels by listening to the sound. Now the sound envelopes the room and is all around you. It is as close to a theater as I have been able to get with this sickness, err, hobby.
> 
> On another note on a whim I loaded the +6db file again. It loaded just as it did the first time but the bass was definitely more prominent. My advice when in doubt load the file again. Happy tweeking.


+2 on loving the 972 as well as far as SQ is concerned. Quirks aside I have no plans on getting another pre-pro or receiver until there is another option for Trinnov that is reasonably priced. Right now the only other options for Trinnov are there own standalone units and the ADA standalone which are in the $10K range or the $40K Cinema Reference pre-pro......yikes :spend: This is what makes the 972 so unique, getting Trinnov for a bargain basement price, you just have to put up with the quirks.

I have had to load the +6db bass file sometimes 4 to 5 times before it takes, your right though, you can tell when it does finally take but I usually just measure with my SMS-1. This is another quirk with the 972, if you check the DSP it can say the +6db file is loaded but it doesn't always take, you have to measure or listen to verify it has been loaded.


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## Stereojeff

The daily use quirk is that video from HDMI syncs first and 5 seconds later the audio syncs. When using DVR or channel surfing one must learn a little patience. While this delay annoys my wife, we still use the R-972 for all our TV viewing. Once you've heard the sonic improvement it's very hard to go back.

Jeff


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## Stereojeff

asere:

Normally, Trinnov setup is no more difficult than any other room correction system. Place the microphone, press start, go away for 10 minutes and save the results. Some users are very rigorous and keep re-aiming the microphone and re-running setup until their center speaker reports that it is located at 0 degrees. (I am not convinced that missing by a degree or two is audible.)

Sometimes, however, one or more of the speakers is hard to locate in 3D space and then it can become a trying "trial and error" action to capture accurate data. 

Of the couple hundred Trinnov calibrations I ran while I was at Sherwood, only a handful fell into the latter category. 

Jeff


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## cconklin1

Stereojeff said:


> asere:
> 
> Normally, Trinnov setup is no more difficult than any other room correction system. Place the microphone, press start, go away for 10 minutes and save the results. Some users are very rigorous and keep re-aiming the microphone and re-running setup until their center speaker reports that it is located at 0 degrees. (I am not convinced that missing by a degree or two is audible.)
> 
> Sometimes, however, one or more of the speakers is hard to locate in 3D space and then it can become a trying "trial and error" action to capture accurate data.
> 
> Of the couple hundred Trinnov calibrations I ran while I was at Sherwood, only a handful fell into the latter category.
> 
> Jeff


I estimate I have run about 100 Trinnov calculations. MOST are what would be expected, but some were just flat out WONKY! Center channel 68 degrees subwoofer 90 degrees, and so on. Had my furnace kick on once while doing it and that whacked it out as well. I fall into the obsessive compulsive category so kept going until I had that center at 0 degrees and then had two other ones equally close. Very happy with the sound quality. MOst of the time my speakers were picked up after three bursts but once it could not find my sub even after 10 bursts, so back to the drawing board. And yes, I also loaded the 6db file twice as well...:bigsmile:


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## bhazard

The few of us who have heard Trinnov compared to XT32 and other room correction software agree... Trinnov is just awesome for movies. I really hope they license and implement it in more cost effective receivers.


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## cconklin1

bhazard said:


> The few of us who have heard Trinnov compared to XT32 and other room correction software agree... Trinnov is just awesome for movies. I really hope they license and implement it in more cost effective receivers.


+1 to everything above...


----------



## cschang

bhazard said:


> The few of us who have heard Trinnov compared to XT32 and other room correction software agree... Trinnov is just awesome for movies. I really hope they license and implement it in more cost effective receivers.


But i think that is more so because of the speaker placement correction that Audessey does not have.

Implementation is not easy...it needs more horsepower than Audessey, but I'm with you, I hope it becomes more widespread.


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## bguzman

bhazard said:


> The few of us who have heard Trinnov compared to XT32 and other room correction software agree... Trinnov is just awesome for movies. I really hope they license and implement it in more cost effective receivers.





cschang said:


> But i think that is more so because of the speaker placement correction that Audessey does not have.
> 
> Implementation is not easy...it needs more horsepower than Audessey, but I'm with you, I hope it becomes more widespread.


:clap: Yes and Yes :clap:


----------



## mdp

One thing I wish Sherwood had was to have Trinnov work on full 5.1 analog in. Currently, it works only on 2 channels. Ironic is that does have hardware for it. It has total 6 channels of Analog to Digital converter but 4 are reserved for calibration mic. Now, those 4 are not used during playback. Wish Sherwood had used those as well.

Anyway, for the price we paid for Sherwood, can't complain though.


----------



## bguzman

Drudge said:


> Did you try switching the player to internally decode and then output PCM and switch the R-972 to accept PCM without the auto surround selected?Does it allow to select PLIIx then?





cconklin1 said:


> nope..


This weekend I noticed that I did not have any sound coming my surround back speakers with 5.1 HD Audio tracks. :hissyfit: I could swear that I did earlier in the week. I switched to decoding in my Oppo and viola , 7.1 bliss with 5.1 True HD and DTS MA.


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## cconklin1

bguzman said:


> This weekend I noticed that I did not have any sound coming my surround back speakers with 5.1 HD Audio tracks. :hissyfit: I could swear that I did earlier in the week. I switched to decoding in my Oppo and viola , 7.1 bliss with 5.1 True HD and DTS MA.


Ok, to further confuse people and add to the "mystery" of the 972.....I ran three new Trinnov calculations last week and got all three pretty much within a db or two of each other and on the last run got the center channel to read 0 degrees. Popped in Star Trek 2009 5.1 True-HD and low and behold, there WAS sound coming out of the rear surrounds! I could not change to any other sound format as Trinnov was engaged but I did not care as it sounded GREAT!. Avengers also had sound from the rear, but then I realized THAT was a 7.1 sound track, so DUH, it should. I will pop in a few more 5.1 discs and report back when i get some free time...


----------



## bguzman

bguzman said:


> This weekend I noticed that I did not have any sound coming my surround back speakers with 5.1 HD Audio tracks. :hissyfit: I could swear that I did earlier in the week. I switched to decoding in my Oppo and viola , 7.1 bliss with 5.1 True HD and DTS MA.


More confusion, I can change surround modes with Trinnov now with LPCM.


----------



## cconklin1

bguzman said:


> More confusion, I can change surround modes with Trinnov now with LPCM.


HAHAHAHA! This receiver will drive me to drink! Gotta play with this later as well...


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## bguzman

bguzman said:


> More confusion, I can change surround modes with Trinnov now with LPCM.


This only works with 5.1 tracks. :huh: With 7.1 it's fixed. What ever it is, it sounds fantastic.


----------



## bguzman

OK here's what I determined after playing around with my system. If you want to have your surround backs active with 5.1 sound tracks you have to decode in the BD player and send LPCM to the R-972 and select the PLIIx surround mode. If you send bitstream there will be no sound in the SBs and the surround mode is fixed. With 7.1 tracks it makes no difference where you decode the surround mode is fixed. It is easy for me to change decoding on my Oppo so I bitstream 7.1 and LPCM 5.1 for audio bliss. YMMV


----------



## sub_crazy

I will have to try that out, although I do get sound out of my SBs with bitstreamed 5.1 DTC-HD and TrueHD, maybe it will be even better with PLIIX.


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy said:


> I will have to try that out, although I do get sound out of my SBs with bitstreamed 5.1 DTC-HD and TrueHD, maybe it will be even better with PLIIX.


Are the indicaters lit up on the display of the receiver?


----------



## sub_crazy

bguzman said:


> Are the indicaters lit up on the display of the receiver?


Yeah, it will say DTS-HD or TrueHD, I have a habit of checking whenever it is a rental BD since some will only include the normal DTS for rental discs like the Hunger Games or most Lions Gate films.


----------



## cconklin1

bguzman said:


> OK here's what I determined after playing around with my system. If you want to have your surround backs active with 5.1 sound tracks you have to decode in the BD player and send LPCM to the R-972 and select the PLIIx surround mode. If you send bitstream there will be no sound in the SBs and the surround mode is fixed. With 7.1 tracks it makes no difference where you decode the surround mode is fixed. It is easy for me to change decoding on my Oppo so I bitstream 7.1 and LPCM 5.1 for audio bliss. YMMV


OK, Here is what I found! When I am playing a 5.1 Dolby Tru-HD or 5.1 DTS-MA bitstreamed to my Sherwood, I DO get activity in my SB speakers! However, I can not change ANY surround modes, it stays locked at "Trinnov active" (or something like that) Will hopefully have some time later to play with decoded pcm out of my oppo 93 this weekend..


I see sub_crazy has the same out put as me as well..


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy said:


> Yeah, it will say DTS-HD or TrueHD, I have a habit of checking whenever it is a rental BD since some will only include the normal DTS for rental discs like the Hunger Games or most Lions Gate films.





cconklin1 said:


> OK, Here is what I found! When I am playing a 5.1 Dolby Tru-HD or 5.1 DTS-MA bitstreamed to my Sherwood, I DO get activity in my SB speakers! However, I can not change ANY surround modes, it stays locked at "Trinnov active" (or something like that) Will hopefully have some time later to play with decoded pcm out of my oppo 93 this weekend..
> I see sub_crazy has the same out put as me as well..


I was asking about the surround back speaker indicators that are highlighted when they are called.

After more investigation I stand corrected. Like stated above there is some sound coming from the SB speakers with a fixed surround mode with bitstream. However with LPCM the sound is more pronounced and I can change surround modes. I think sometimes when this AVR is powered up that things are different than the next time it is turned on. :huh:


----------



## sub_crazy

I still have to try the LPCM trick, no time tonight but hopefully tomorrow. 

I know the Book of Eli is DTS-HD 5.1 but when I listened to the shoot out scene with the Gatling gun it sure did sound like the back surrounds were on. In fact it sounded like I was listening to a 20.1 system as I have never heard that scene sound so realistic as it circled around you, that is an awesome scene to try out with Trinnov.


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy said:


> I still have to try the LPCM trick, no time tonight but hopefully tomorrow.
> 
> I know the Book of Eli is DTS-HD 5.1 but when I listened to the shoot out scene with the Gatling gun it sure did sound like the back surrounds were on. In fact it sounded like I was listening to a 20.1 system as I have never heard that scene sound so realistic as it circled around you, that is an awesome scene to try out with Trinnov.


I watched that same movie tonight and it did sound amazing indeed. :hsd:


----------



## bhazard

sub_crazy said:


> I still have to try the LPCM trick, no time tonight but hopefully tomorrow.
> 
> I know the Book of Eli is DTS-HD 5.1 but when I listened to the shoot out scene with the Gatling gun it sure did sound like the back surrounds were on. In fact it sounded like I was listening to a 20.1 system as I have never heard that scene sound so realistic as it circled around you, that is an awesome scene to try out with Trinnov.


I love that scene! I have to watch it again now.


----------



## sub_crazy

I was just listening to some music on my 5.1 channel system in the living room which I only use for TV and music, movies are always upstairs with the PJ. 

Admittedly I wasn't as impressed with the 972 with music but after making some adjustments it really is growing on me. The weird part is in Stereo mode there is still sound coming out of my surrounds and center but it sounds really good and now is my preferred listening mode for music over Neural which was my favorite.

I finally settled on Audiophile 1, 3D Remap and the Music setting when listening to music in Stereo. For movies and TV I still prefer Natural for EQ as I like the added midbass boost. I initially preferred either 2D Remap or DLY+LVL for thee Spatial Mode when listening to music but I changed around my system a little and re-ran a calibration and now 3D sounds a lot better for music. I have always preferred 3D for movies and TV but music used to sound strange.

What settings are others using?


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy said:


> I was just listening to some music on my 5.1 channel system in the living room which I only use for TV and music, movies are always upstairs with the PJ.
> Admittedly I wasn't as impressed with the 972 with music but after making some adjustments it really is growing on me. The weird part is in Stereo mode there is still sound coming out of my surrounds and center but it sounds really good and now is my preferred listening mode for music over Neural which was my favorite.
> I finally settled on Audiophile 1, 3D Remap and the Music setting when listening to music in Stereo. For movies and TV I still prefer Natural for EQ as I like the added midbass boost. I initially preferred either 2D Remap or DLY+LVL for thee Spatial Mode when listening to music but I changed around my system a little and re-ran a calibration and now 3D sounds a lot better for music. I have always preferred 3D for movies and TV but music used to sound strange.
> What settings are others using?


I am still trying out a few different settings for music. I mainly listen to music multi-channel, don't hate, with position 3, 2D mapping, and natural, which is calibrated sending the surround/multi to my front wide speakers. I also go pure audio for that all natural sound, especially with LPs. Add to that I am also experimenting using the analog outs of my Oppo 83 for DVD-A and SACD. Basically this thing can sound anyway you want it if you're patient enough to check out the fifty bazillion settings.

For movies it's a traditional 7.1, position 1, 3D mapping, an natural. I just watched Life of Pi and the sound scape this AVR can create is scary good. :yikes:


----------



## sub_crazy

When I was listening today to a CD with my Oppo connected via HDMI I was not able to engage Pure Audio. I thought maybe it was because of Trinnov, do you have to turn Trinnov off to use the Pure Audio function or does it only work with analog sources, not HDMI?


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy;[url said:


> http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200599429]When[/url] I was listening today to a CD with my Oppo connected via HDMI I was not able to engage Pure Audio. I thought maybe it was because of Trinnov, do you have to turn Trinnov off to use the Pure Audio function or does it only work with analog sources, not HDMI?


I only use Pure Audio with my turntable or analogs via the Oppo. I also play music from my laptop using optical. I believe you can use Trinnov with two channel analog but not multichannel. Pure Audio works with analog and digital but not HDMI.


----------



## sayguh

I just purchased an R-972 and have some issues with it. No matter where I place the Trinnov microphone or what position I try and setup the only result it displays is for the Front Right speaker. It always has either 0 degs. or 90 degs for the H. angle. Although the distance might be about right. All other fields are blank. (front left, surrounds, front, and sub).

I've tried placing the microphone 2-3 feet from the Front Left speaker and had no luck, it still only displays info for the front right. I have polk RM6600's and they aren't the best speakers in the world but I wouldn't think they would be the problem are they?

I've read that if it has problems picking up your speakers it will make the SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH noise 9 times for each speaker. If it has no problems then it'll only do it 3x. Every Time I've tried it it has only every made 3 attempts and has never displayed any errors.

I keep searching around to see if I've done something wrong or missread the directions but I get the feeling I just got a bum unit :-\ I've already had to send it back once and I thought they would have fixed this so maybe I'm just doing something wrong.

Any advice? 
:help::crying:


----------



## Stereojeff

Reset the receiver and try again.

Jeff


----------



## sayguh

Stereojeff said:


> Reset the receiver and try again.
> 
> Jeff


Tried that, did the Factory Reset by holding down Standby and Memo/Enter. It correctly did the reset since it went to the 87.5 FM or whatever. Retried the Trinov setup and didn't have any more luck.

Thanks for the idea though.

I also just tried unplugging any and all inputs from the back. All my HDMI & Component connects, FM & AM. No luck, still didn't help.

Keep the ideas coming


----------



## sub_crazy

I wish I had an answer for you but I was going to suggest a factory reset as well. 

I have not heard others having the same problem, this is a first for me.


----------



## koolfool

I have a quick question about the Sherwood 972. Does it support ARC? I assume that ARC is part of the HDMI 1.4 or maybe not. I just want to be sure. Thanks.


----------



## tonyvdb

No it does not support ARC.


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## koolfool

Thank you.


----------



## cconklin1

tonyvdb said:


> No it does not support ARC.


it barely supports HDMI!!!


----------



## tonyvdb

Have not had any issues with it passing HDMI from either my Bluray, media player or my DVR


----------



## cconklin1

tonyvdb said:


> Have not had any issues with it passing HDMI from either my Bluray, media player or my DVR


Then count yourself lucky! Mine always has handshake issues with my dune media, player and oppo 93. it's a minor annoyance but one none the less..


----------



## mdp

No handshake problems with my Panasonic 210, Toshiba HD-DVD and Micca 600 G2 at all. Had to turn off Deep color though.


----------



## tonyvdb

Just a quick update, I hooked up some cheep surround speakers today in preparation for my SVS SBS-02s that will arrive later this coming week and re ran Trinnov. 
All I can say is WOW I turned on 3D remap and was blown away in how it sounds with music! I can literally close my eyes and the sound is all around me with not one direct direction that the sound is coming from. Even with these cheep speakers as the surrounds its just amazing.


----------



## sub_crazy

tonyvdb said:


> Just a quick update, I hooked up some cheep surround speakers today in preparation for my SVS SBS-02s that will arrive later this coming week and re ran Trinnov.
> All I can say is WOW I turned on 3D remap and was blown away in how it sounds with music! *I can literally close my eyes and the sound is all around me with not one direct direction that the sound is coming from*. Even with these cheep speakers as the surrounds its just amazing.


When Trinnov does it's thing that is my same exact reaction and why I am hooked. It is great to just be surrounded by sound so enveloping, you almost have to get use to it. Just the other day my girl commented that a surround effect she would swear was coming from someplace in the house. She said wow, the effect was so convincing.


----------



## tonyvdb

You know what even more interesting? I was in my kitchen and the sound was still coming from the room as if I had speakers in my Kitchen. Its hard to explain if your not there to hear for yourself.


----------



## asere

tonyvdb said:


> You know what even more interesting? I was in my kitchen and the sound was still coming from the room as if I had speakers in my Kitchen. Its hard to explain if your not there to hear for yourself.


 My family room is open to the kitchen but if someone is example in a different room is it audible there?


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## tonyvdb

Your guess is as good as mine


----------



## sub_crazy

tonyvdb said:


> You know what even more interesting? I was in my kitchen and the sound was still coming from the room as if I had speakers in my Kitchen. Its hard to explain if your not there to hear for yourself.


My living room system is opened to the kitchen and when I tested out the 972 there I actually paused and replayed a scene from a TV show 4 times. It just did not compute in my head how the sound could appear to be coming from there, it was so clear it sounded like a monopole speaker firing right at you but there were no speakers even close. I honestly thought it had to be a cabinet or something inside the cabinets that was resonating or my neighbor doing something but on the 4th playback we realized it was just from the TV show were a noise was placed in the back of the room. The most realistic placement of a sound that I have ever experienced.


----------



## yoda13

if you guys don't stop this, you're going to make me purchase a R-972! and my wife won't buy the "but the guys and gals on HTS said..." excuse!:gulp:


----------



## tonyvdb

I did have an odd occurrence last night as i was playing with the settings. The picture went green like the red had quit. I had to finally go into the video settings and bypass the video scaling to get it to return to normal even though it was a 1080p signal from bluray so there should not have been any scaling being done.


----------



## bguzman

sub_crazy said:


> When Trinnov does it's thing that is my same exact reaction and why I am hooked. It is great to just be surrounded by sound so enveloping, you almost have to get use to it. Just the other day my girl commented that a surround effect she would swear was coming from someplace in the house. She said wow, the effect was so convincing.


Agree 100%, the sound stage on this puppy is amazing.



yoda13 said:


> if you guys don't stop this, you're going to make me purchase a R-972! and my wife won't buy the "but the guys and gals on HTS said..." excuse!:gulp:


Go for it man, she'll just find something else to bust your chops about. 



tonyvdb said:


> I did have an odd occurrence last night as i was playing with the settings. The picture went green like the red had quit. I had to finally go into the video settings and bypass the video scaling to get it to return to normal even though it was a 1080p signal from bluray so there should not have been any scaling being done.


I've had these types of things happen to every AVR I've had, Sony, Denon, Onkyo, since the advent of the dreaded HDMI connection. Sometimes with all the technology crammed into these AVRs you just have to toggle so that it can try again.


----------



## cconklin1

tonyvdb said:


> I did have an odd occurrence last night as i was playing with the settings. The picture went green like the red had quit. I had to finally go into the video settings and bypass the video scaling to get it to return to normal even though it was a 1080p signal from bluray so there should not have been any scaling being done.


yep, had that once as well, kinda like a "solarized" effect when it was mostly green and you could still kind of see what was going on. toggling inputs cured it for me. I do NOT use the scaling in the 972...


----------



## bhazard

The pink screen happens at least once a week to me. Toggling inputs fixes it. Quirk #74. We should make a list.

Trinnov is still amazing and most people don't know what they're missing. Just watched Django unchained, and the bullets and wood shards flying everywhere is just awesome. It really shines in action movies.

I beg of Curt and the rest of the Trinnov team to license some sort of their EQ/3D Remapping to one of the big names in receivers. That, or have an affordable standalone unit under $2,000 for us that are hooked and on a budget. I cannot have a pre-pro or receiver without it now.


----------



## tonyvdb

cconklin1 said:


> yep, had that once as well, kinda like a "solarized" effect when it was mostly green and you could still kind of see what was going on. toggling inputs cured it for me. I do NOT use the scaling in the 972...


Im surprised that Sherwood did not do better testing before rolling it out (seems so common for companies like this). It has so many little issues that make for one mess at times however the sound quality is its saving grace.


----------



## typ44q

tonyvdb said:


> Im surprised that Sherwood did not do better testing before rolling it out (seems so common for companies like this). It has so many little issues that make for one mess at times however the sound quality is its saving grace.


It really is a shame that of all the companies that make great audio equipment, Sherwood was the one to get Trinnov. I anxiously waited for years for Outlaw Audio to make their version based on the Sherwood but it just never happened.


----------



## asere

typ44q said:


> It really is a shame that of all the companies that make great audio equipment, Sherwood was the one to get Trinnov. I anxiously waited for years for Outlaw Audio to make their version based on the Sherwood but it just never happened.


I had never heard of Sherwood until I found out what Trinnov was. It seems like the Newcastle is their only avr line. I hear Sherwood has horrible customer service.How reputable is Sherwood and are they good quality receivers?


----------



## tonyvdb

Sherwood makes receivers of other companies who will rebrand them. For some time (not sure if they still do) they made some receivers for both Denon and Marantz.


----------



## asere

tonyvdb said:


> Sherwood makes receivers of other companies who will rebrand them. For some time (not sure if they still do) they made some receivers for both Denon and Marantz.


That's good to know since Denon and Marantz are reputable.


----------



## bguzman

As I stated above every HDMI AVR I've used has had an occasional glitch. From handshakes issues to not displaying the OSD until toggled. Denon, Onkyo, Sony all had their quirks as we call them. The R-972 is about the same in my set up as the others. I press "Watch a BD" on my remote and it will come on and switch to Video 1. There is the audio delay but you have to remember how much processing is going on with Trinnov and it is at most six seconds when I am channel surfing. I don't think it is a shame at all.


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## typ44q

Yes other receivers, especially from this time period had their HDMI issues but I have never used one as "quirky" as the 972 and the audio delay quirk is there even when Trinnov is turned off and you are not using HDMI so it is not a processing power issue.
Even with all its quirks I love the sound and what Trinnov does for my room. It really is an exceptional piece of technology.


----------



## sub_crazy

bhazard said:


> I beg of Curt and the rest of the Trinnov team to license some sort of their EQ/3D Remapping to one of the big names in receivers. That, or have an affordable standalone unit under $2,000 for us that are hooked and on a budget. I cannot have a pre-pro or receiver without it now.


We can only hope, I am hooked just like you.

I would really like to see Pioneer Elite drop there MCACC and adopt Trinnov in their receivers or possibly even a pre-pro. Even maybe Yamaha although it has been a long time since I had anything from them. I think the big names like Denon and Onkyo are pretty much sticking with Audyssey which is excellent until you hear 3D remapping. I figure it would be a real boost to sales for any company who does not already use Audyssey if it is marketed and implemented correctly.


----------



## asere

sub_crazy said:


> We can only hope, I am hooked just like you.
> 
> I would really like to see Pioneer Elite drop there MCACC and adopt Trinnov in their receivers or possibly even a pre-pro. Even maybe Yamaha although it has been a long time since I had anything from them. I think the big names like Denon and Onkyo are pretty much sticking with Audyssey which is excellent until you hear 3D remapping. I figure it would be a real boost to sales for any company who does not already use Audyssey if it is marketed and implemented correctly.


I have never heard trinnov and am afraid to get a Sherwood because of issues but I agree it would be nice for at least Pioneer and Yamaha to adopt trinnov.


----------



## asere

Hearing so much great stuff you about trinnov I'm tempted more and more to get Sherwood


----------



## cconklin1

no replies in almost two weeks. We must be too busy watching movies!


----------



## asere

cconklin1 said:


> no replies in almost two weeks. We must be too busy watching movies!


Lol, yeah we must be!


----------



## bhazard

It's not like we can expect a firmware update or anything new to pop up. We're just enjoying our systems.


----------



## mike in ca

I received my Sherwood Newcastle R972 today from Accessoriesforless. I immediatly ran into an issue. The quick start guide has a big warning that says not to hook up the receiver to speakers less than 6 Ohms. My main speakers are KEF Reference Series 104.2's which are 4 Ohms. My Fluke Multimeter reads them as 4.7 Ohms, but that is still shy of 6 Ohms. The only thing I can think of is to put a large 2 Ohm resister in line, but that is not what i would call a viable choice. Does anyone have a solution or suggestion other than replacing my very expensive speakers or will the R972 be able to handle the Kef speakers?

Another question I have is concerning the HDMI connections on this receiver. I have never had a receiver before that had HDMI connections, so I always connected my HDMI directly to the TV and used optical for the surround sound. I spoke to a guy that told me the HDMI connection is a better quality sound and i should go through the receiver. However, i really only use surround sound when i watch movies and not regular TV. So will this receiver pass the HDMI signal to the TV in standby mode? If not, i will have to stay with optical for the Audio connection to the receiver.

Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.

Mike


----------



## tonyvdb

Ive been running 4 Ohm speakers with my R972 for almost 6 months and had no issues at all. Just dont run it at ear bleeding levels and you will be fine.
The R792 wont pass audio in Standby so you will have to use optical for things like the cable TV receiver but if watching BluRay you defiantly want to run HDMI to the receiver and HDMI out to the TV as the uncompressed audio will only pass over HDMI.


----------



## islandman2020

I have owned the Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov now for about a year, and I still keep discovering new things about it. I thought I would share a thing or two that might be of interest to us audiophile types, lol. In retrospect, there is no way a reviewer could have this processor for a short while, and know very much about it, especially concerning Trinnov. It’s really not their fault in a way. For one reason, the R-972's manual is not nearly as comprehensive, and explicative as it needs to be. There are things that one will discover the R-972/Trinnov does by accident, or by reading somewhere like in Curt Hoyt’s (from Trinnov) ongoing AVS articles for R-972 owners concerning Trinnov. Secondly, Audyssey is probably the room correction technology that most reviewers are familiar with, but this ain’t Audyssey. I doubt any knowledge of Audyssey will help them understand how Trinnov works in this processor. So, I believe there are many things not mentioned about Trinnov that would have been enlightening about this unit to people, but the reviewers do not have the time they need to find out all about how it works in the time they are allowed for a review.

The one thing that I want to focus on here, and that I don’t remember reading in any of the reviews on this unit, is how that 2 channel stereo works with “Remastering”, “Pure Audio” and Trinnov. 

When using two channel RCA stereo L/R “out” from my old Philips CD-50 CD player into RCA L/R “in” on the Sherwood some magic can happen: 

1) Remastering - Remastering is a feature that only works with 2 channel stereo. I’ve tried both HDMI and analog, and it definitely works better with analog. When engaged, Remastering upsamples the source material by 2x. If you have a CD that is 16/44.1khz it will be “remastered” or upsampled to 24/88.2. If your source material is 88.2, it will be up-sampled to 176.4. Resolution max’s out at 24/192. The sound is pretty amazing with Remastering engaged. There is a noticeable improvement in sound. 

2) Pure Audio - When engaged, it turns off all video circuitry and this supposedly enhances audio quality by eliminating any potential degradation of sound by having video processing circuitry on at the same time . I’ve read mixed reviews on whether Pure Audio mode really affects the sound, but with the R-972 it is definitely unmistakable. This took the audio to another level. Having “Remastering” + “Pure Audio” on at the same time is a game changer. Thinner sounding CD’s got fatter. More high frequency sparkle. More defined bass. Better separation and localization of instruments within the sound stage. 

3) Trinnov - Initially, I thought that it only worked using HDMI. But, Trinnov also works in 2 channel analog stereo as well! Not only can you apply a number of Trinnov presets to change to the EQ of your choice, but more importantly to me is that Trinnov takes over total bass management/EQ of your sub(s) as if you were running via HDMI, but again, this is 2 channel analog RCA ins I’m talking about! The sound is already amazing with my 15 year old CD player. I can’t imagine using an Oppo BDP-105‘s dedicated stereo outs with this setup. I’m sure it would be nothing short of amazing. “Remastering” my redbook CD's from 16/44.1 to 24/88.2 + ”Pure Audio” + Trinnov in analog stereo mode is a combination that has an fantastic sound. 

I don’t know enough about Audyssey to know if it, or a pre/pro or AVR with Audyssey, does any upsampling plus room correction in 2 channel stereo via RCA? Maybe someone could chime in about that. I would like to know if this is unique to Trinnov?


----------



## islandman2020

mike in ca said:


> I received my Sherwood Newcastle R972 today from Accessoriesforless. I immediatly ran into an issue. The quick start guide has a big warning that says not to hook up the receiver to speakers less than 6 Ohms. My main speakers are KEF Reference Series 104.2's which are 4 Ohms. My Fluke Multimeter reads them as 4.7 Ohms, but that is still shy of 6 Ohms. The only thing I can think of is to put a large 2 Ohm resister in line, but that is not what i would call a viable choice. Does anyone have a solution or suggestion other than replacing my very expensive speakers or will the R972 be able to handle the Kef speakers?
> 
> Another question I have is concerning the HDMI connections on this receiver. I have never had a receiver before that had HDMI connections, so I always connected my HDMI directly to the TV and used optical for the surround sound. I spoke to a guy that told me the HDMI connection is a better quality sound and i should go through the receiver. However, i really only use surround sound when i watch movies and not regular TV. So will this receiver pass the HDMI signal to the TV in standby mode? If not, i will have to stay with optical for the Audio connection to the receiver.
> 
> Any help or suggestions would be much appreciated.
> 
> Mike


I just wanted to let you know that I have been using the R-972 to run 5 x 4ohm Polk Lsi series speakers for a year. No problems whatsoever. Unit gets a little warm, but not hot. I play movies.... LOUD! Been doing it a year. So, you'll be find.

Move to HDMI on sound for movies. I believe that coax and optical can only do surround in Dolby Digital st best. Once you hear Blu ray with DTS-HD, Dolby-HD, etc., that can only be experienced via HDMI, you won't go back. It's that much better. From your disk player go to the R-972 by HDMI, then from the R-972 go to your TV by another HDMI cable. If you have a Blu ray player that has two HDMI outs, use one HDMI out straight to your TV for video. Then use the other HDMI out into the R-972 for audio. This is the best way if you have a disk player with two HDMI outs.


----------



## bhazard

Remastering works on all connections. I have it engaged all the time. It blinks on the receiver while it is on. Pure audio only works on analog though right? It doesn't work from my PC/HDMI connection.

Have you found a way to modify the crossovers with Trinnov on? I have a new pair of full range speakers going in, and I want to be able to run them both full range and crossed with Trinnov.


----------



## mike in ca

I am dating myself here, but back in the 70's I was a proffesional sound engineer doing large rock concerts and also recording studio work. When we did concerts, even our smallest system was stereo tri-amped. In the early 1970's this was pretty cutting edge but it still made an amazing difference in the sound quality. We rutinely ran 4 ohm speakers since each individual driver had it's own amp. The thing about amps is that they are usually rated for an 8 ohm speaker. So if your amp is rated at 100 watts per channel, that is usually reffering to an 8 ohm load. When you run 4 ohm speakers, you are essentially doubling the amps power output. It is actually a bit more than double, but for the sake of this conversation, lets keep it simple. The up side is that a 100 watt per channel amp becomes a 200 watt per channel amp at 4 ohms. The down side being that the amp runs much hotter and if it is not rated to handle the additional power, things tend to burn out in the amp. Back then we used yamaha pro series amps that were rated to handle anything between 4 and 8 ohms, so it was not a problem. Although in a rock concert situation, you are usually running them full bore. Our amps used to get so hot, you could fry and egg on the top of them. Since they were made to run that way, we never ever had one fail. Considering we used them at least 5 days a week and traveled all over with them, they took an amazing amount of abuse without any failures. But then they were designed for that kind of usage. I was concerned about the 972 because of the warning in the manual, but I really never run my home theater sound anywhere near full bore, so I had a feeling it really would not be a problem, but thanks to all those that confirmed it. This will be my third Sherwood Newcastle AVR and i ran my 4 ohm Kef's on both of the first two. My R963T took a powder last week which is what prompted buying the R972. 

Mike


----------



## bguzman

The R-972 is able to create the best sound-field I have ever heard in my HT. I bought mine used on another forum. About three weeks ago it stopped producing audio from all inputs except Ext/in. I have made a few calls to Sherwood but have only talked to a tech once and all he said was to reset it. I tried that many times. It is now a fifty pound paperweight since the warranty is not transferable. I have had all other brands of AVRs and this is the first one that has just quit. As much as it pains me I am not willing to throw away another chunk of cash so, so long Sherwood. Good luck to you all, and happy listening.


----------



## islandman2020

bguzman the Sherwood is an awesome AVR. I'm not sure you should give up on it just yet. A friend of mine went thru three of the same model Onkyo's before he gave up on them. So, all AVR's makes can have their problems. Some suggestions:

1) Contact Stereo_Jeff over at AVS. I think he used to work for Sherwood and could probably give you some suggestions. 

2) If the unit is under 3 years old you, ask the guy you bought it from if you can send it in for repair under his name.

3) Re-install the latest firmware version. 1.47 I think? Contact Sherwood to get it.

4) Post your concerns at AVS. There are many, many R-972 owners there that might have some advice.

See: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1179978/sherwood-r-972-user-thread


----------



## bguzman

islandman2020 said:


> bguzman the Sherwood is an awesome AVR. I'm not sure you should give up on it just yet. A friend of mine went thru three of the same model Onkyo's before he gave up on them. So, all AVR's makes can have their problems. Some suggestions:
> 
> 1) Contact Stereo_Jeff over at AVS. I think he used to work for Sherwood and could probably give you some suggestions.
> 
> 2) If the unit is under 3 years old you, ask the guy you bought it from if you can send it in for repair under his name.
> 
> 3) Re-install the latest firmware version. 1.47 I think? Contact Sherwood to get it.
> 
> 4) Post your concerns at AVS. There are many, many R-972 owners there that might have some advice.
> 
> See: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1179978/sherwood-r-972-user-thread


I have already done all of those things and this is where I am.


----------



## tonyvdb

Thats the big downside of buying used, you never know what the previous owner did to it. Im sorry for the issues your having but dont blame Sherwood for this.


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## bguzman

All of the forums with threads covering the R-972 are full of the pitfalls of this AVR. I knew I was rolling the dice and am not "blaming" anyone or thing. If I can somehow get it repaired by Sherwood I would still be ahead, I'm just not betting on Sherwood that's all.


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## islandman2020

I would call Sherwood. They are about 350mi from you. Maybe shipping would not be that bad if you sent it to them for repair. Also, see if they have an authorized repair center that is closer to you.


----------



## tonyvdb

The problem is that the warranty is not transferable so Sherwood is not obligated to do anything. It would most likely be at his cost.


----------



## sub_crazy

Sorry to hear about your 972 bguzman.

I would at least check and see how much it would cost to at least take a look at it and an estimate for the cost of repair. One of my 972's is a refurb and it has worked great for over 6 months now.

All brands have there problems, there is someone on the AVS with a second bum Denon 4520. There was also the problems with the 08 series from Onkyo that I was affected with as well as it seems everyone. 

I can understand your frustrations though and wish you good luck in the future.

I am crossing my fingers for the both of us that another major brand comes out with Trinnov at a reasonable price. Till then I will be crossing my fingers for my 2 972's as I don't want to switch to anything else.


----------



## islandman2020

tonyvdb said:


> The problem is that the warranty is not transferable so Sherwood is not obligated to do anything. It would most likely be at his cost.


This is true. May not be feasible. It would relative to a) The cost of the repair + shipping, and b) How much he paid to start with for the unit. Would be worth making a call to Sherwood to find out about his options.


----------



## bguzman

bguzman said:


> The R-972 is able to create the best sound-field I have ever heard in my HT. I bought mine used on another forum. About three weeks ago it stopped producing audio from all inputs except Ext/in. *I have made a few calls to Sherwood* but have only talked to a tech once and all he said was to reset it. I tried that many times. It is now a fifty pound paperweight since the warranty is not transferable. I have had all other brands of AVRs and this is the first one that has just quit. As much as it pains me I am not willing to throw away another chunk of cash so, so long Sherwood. Good luck to you all, and happy listening.


As I stated originally, I have called Sherwood but it is an agonizingly slow process and very difficult to talk to a tech. They say they will call back but this has only happened once.


----------



## Drudge

It sounds like Sherwood's customer service is becoming dodgy.Keep contacting them til' they give you a definitive response.They owe you that much at least!


I think the fact that so many refurbished units were being sold speaks volumes about the products stability, IMHO!


----------



## tonyvdb

Drudge said:


> I think the fact that so many refurbished units were being sold speaks volumes about the products stability, IMHO!


Non of the units sold at accessories4less were refurbished, it is and was the only recommended place to buy them. the unit he bought was used and not bought with a warranty.


----------



## Drudge

tonyvdb said:


> Non of the units sold at accessories4less were refurbished, it is and was the only recommended place to buy them. the unit he bought was used and not bought with a warranty.


People have been buying refurbs that come from Sherwood that were being sold on ebay by different sellers for around $300.There seemed to be a lot of them being sold.

I never mentioned about buying refurbs from AC4less.

Have you ever bought a used item with a warranty? I never have.That's new to me.


----------



## mike in ca

Well after trying to find a time that my wife was not watching TV, which was the middle of the night, i finally got my 972 all hooked up. Then I had to find a time to get the Trinnov setup done, but finally got that finished. So now I am ready to sit back and enjoy some movies on the new system. I found the manual to be kind of sketchy, but was able to get the assignments done after a little trial and error. The Trinnov was a breeze to setup though. Worked perfect first try. I am still a little concerned about heat as I have it in an AV cabinet. It is open in front and back but surrounded on all sides. I put a pair of cooling fans on top of the receiver that are made for stereos so i think that should move enough air to keep it cool. Just listening to the radio sounded great, so i can't wait to try a movie.


----------



## koolfool

Keep us updated! I may have a chance to try a 972 soon.


----------



## islandman2020

Congrats Mike on your new toy! Don't be selfish though. Be sure to share that Trinnov love with others, lol

I love using 2 channel stereo analog out from my CD player to the CD in on the back of the R-972. You can still engage Trinnov if you want even those this way is not digital. While going stereo analog I have Remastering and Pure Audio engaged. I notice the most amount of difference in those features this way! Lots to explore! Enjoy!!!


----------



## cconklin1

Drudge said:


> People have been buying refurbs that come from Sherwood that were being sold on ebay by different sellers for around $300.There seemed to be a lot of them being sold.
> 
> I never mentioned about buying refurbs from AC4less.
> 
> Have you ever bought a used item with a warranty? I never have.That's new to me.


Where do you see used 972's for $300? I can't find ONE let alone "a lot of them being sold"..

As far as buying used item with a warranty, I have bought hundreds of used items that still had factory warranty remaining, not sure the point of your post?


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## islandman2020

There a guy over at the Emotiva Forum that is in a bind, bought a new one 4 months ago and needs to sell it. 475.00 is what he wants

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium&action=display&thread=30874


----------



## bguzman

No thanks been there one that. :rolleyesno:


----------



## tonyvdb

I have no idea why someone would buy a used 972 when you can get them brand new for $599 at accessories4less (not refurbished) with a 3 year warranty.


----------



## mike in ca

Does anyone know if the settings for assignments and the Trinnov settings keep if you turn off the power button, or does it have to stay in standby mode to keep the settings? Since this is on the TV my wife uses, i don't get to use the surround sound very often, so I would rather turn the power off until I use it, but I am not sure if all the settings stay saved if the power button is turned off. Also, I keep all my gear on a UPS as we get a lot of power outages in my area as i live in a forest area. So if the power is out for longer than the UPS can hold the charge, does that lose the settings? If you know, please let me know.

Thanks

Mike


----------



## tonyvdb

As long as it stays plugged in to the wall it should keep the settings for a couple weeks at least.


----------



## islandman2020

I always turn mine completely off. Never lost any settings.


----------



## tesseract

Mine was unplugged and set aside for months, all settings were retained.


----------



## sub_crazy

tonyvdb said:


> I have no idea why someone would buy a used 972 when you can get them brand new for $599 at accessories4less (not refurbished) with a 3 year warranty.


+1

The extra $ is worth the piece of mind just for the 3 year warranty on a receiver with a lot of known issues.


----------



## mike in ca

Well i finally got the time to sit and watch a dvd today using my new R-972. Major problem! I tried everything I could think of and no matter what i tried, I could not get any audio using the HDMI inputs. I tried every port, several cables including the one that goes to the TV which i know works and not a peep of audio from any HDMI port. I had no problem getting audio from both my DVD and satellite box using optical, but nothing from the HDMI. Any suggestions, or do you think the unit arrived defective? It sounds pretty good with the optical, but I keep reading on here that the HDMI ports deliver better sound, so i really wanted to use them. I also ran the TRINNOV setup and for some reason it put all the information that should come from the center speaker to my left main speaker. When i changed to manual setup it worked fine. Have not had time to futz with that yet as i spent the last 5 hours trying to get the HDMI ports to work. I even hooked it up exactly the way it shows in the quick setup sheet and still nothing from the HDMI inputs. I also tried going just audio from my DVD player and then tried both audio and video since my player has two HDMI outputs; one for both A/V and one for just audio. The video worked but no audio. Either i am totally doing something wrong or the HDMI audio section of my recever is dead. Please send suggestions!!!

Mike


----------



## JBrax

Sounds as though it may be something in the audio settings menu. I'm not familiar with the Sherwood but I would start there. Hopefully a Sherwood owner chimes in soon.


----------



## tonyvdb

Hi Mike, have you gone into the user menu and made sure that you have the corresponding HDMI input assigned to the device your using?
EDIT: also make sure that you have the HDMI audio output set to OFF in the settings menu.


----------



## mike in ca

Yes I ave tried pretty much every assignment setting there is. I tried just setting it to the HDMI and set it to the corresponding input number and i also tried auto detect. When I used the manual HDMI setting, the display on the receiver falshed the little red HDMI detect next to the surround speaker display, so it knew there was a signal there and it automatically chose the right port, but no sound. If i change it to optical it works fine. When I tried using the port on my DVD for both A/V and then connected the HDMI output of the receiver to the TV, it passed both video and audio to the TV, but no sound from the receiver. It really has me baffeled.


----------



## tonyvdb

just to make sure you saw my edit to my post above make sure that you have the HDMI audio output set to OFF in the settings menu.


----------



## mike in ca

I set it up with it turned off, but after trying everything else, i even tried it with it turned on, but it did not work either way, so i set it back to off.


----------



## tonyvdb

Hmmm, And you have each input set to the following?

HDMI Assign: HDMI 1 (or 2,3 and so on)
Video assign: ----
Video mode: HDMI
Audio assign: ----
Audio mode: HDMI

Page 2
Audio Surround and remaster: On
HD audio: On


----------



## mike in ca

It really did not like those settings. The display on the receiver kept flashing back and forth every second from the HDMI logo to the remastering logo making a loud click each time it changed and it still did not work. I tried setting remastering back to off which fixed the clicking and switching of logos an then only the HDMI logo flashed but still no sound.


----------



## tonyvdb

Your getting picture with HDMI right? Did you have a HDMI signal playing when you tried those settings? The other thing is do you have Bitstream audio and HDMI audio out turned on selected in the Players menu?


----------



## mike in ca

I put it back to only the audio out HDMI of the DVD player is hooked up to the receiver. The reason is that when my wife watches a DVD without me, she does not want to deal with the surround sound and the receiver. So this way it will send both audio and video directly to the TV without having to turn on the receiver. If it worked, then when I watch it, i can use the receiver getting the audio from the HDMI audio only output from the DVD and just turn down the volume on the TV. The A/V port on the DVD goes directly to the TV. According to the DVD manual it sends output from both jacks without having to change any settings, but i also tried the split the outputs setting on the DVD player as well and it made no difference.


----------



## tonyvdb

Ok, so your Player has two HDMI outs? One to the receiver and one to the display?
Sorry Im trying to figure this out because Im not there to see I have to ask so many questions.


----------



## mike in ca

Correct. The number 1 output of the DVD player is a combo audio/video output. The number 2 output is a audio only output. I have the number 1 going directly to the TV and the number 2 going to the receiver.


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## tonyvdb

And you have tried going with the #1 HDMI only? Im running out of options here. I am starting to think something is not right with your R972 I might suggest doing a hard reset of your receiver and start over.


----------



## mike in ca

:hissyfit: Ok, I tried one last ditch test. I hooked up only the combo A/V output form the DVD player to the receiver. I used the cable that was being used for the sencond output to go from the HDMI monitor output of the receiver to the TV. I got video pasing through the receiver just fine, but no audio either with the HDMI audio output turned on or off even just through the TV speakers. No audio from anything. The cables are obviously good as they both pass video and if the combo output is connected directly to the TV I get both audio and video to the TV. 

So one, how do i do a hard reset as I could not find anything on the setup menu and two, how do I check the firmware version? I think I have done everything else possible to make sure no other component or cable is at fault. So either the hard rest will fix it or it is a defective receiver. 

I hope not the latter, but if you ever met someone with the worst luck in the world on pretty much everything, it is me. It seems no matter what i do or buy, something is always either broken or a problem. I can't even find a auto mechanic that in not a total bungler. I take my car in and they either can't fix the problem or they make it worse. So i usually have to take it home and fix it myself, which after 8 back surgeries is not a good time. Funny how an amature back yard mechanic can do not only a better job but figure out how to do things the "professional Mechanics" can't. I can't tell you how many times I have taken my 65' Cobra replica to so called expert mechanics and they haven't got a clue how to work on it. Example. I bought the headers for my model Cobra too late and they no longer made the exact ones for the version of my car, so the drivers side was 1 1/4" too long as they widend the car in the next version. So it stuck out too far and showed the flange and bolts. So I hunted around on the forum for my car and found someone who had a drivers side header that they never used that was the correct one for my car. I took it to the mechanic to swap it out and they said it was impossible to make work, but charged me the full estimate anyway. I took it home and had it swapped in an hour. So much for impossible! That is only one of the nightmares i have had with mechanics on that car for which i now have spent close to $2,000 for work that either was not done, not needed or not done correctly. And a 65 car with a regular old carburated engine should be a piece of cake for a professional, but I guess these days, if it does not have a computer, professonal mechanics are lost. It seems the same lack of effort and pride in workmanship also plagues quality control on electronics as well. I guess since most of the stuff is made in China, we should get used to DOA or faulty electronics from now on.


----------



## tonyvdb

The R972 has its quirks, hopefully a hard reset is all it needs.

To reset the R-972 to factory settings:

Once in Standby Mode, press and hold down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM . If not, repeat the reset process.


----------



## mike in ca

I will try that now to see if it fixes the problem. Do you know how to check the firmware version? 

:rubeyes: It has been a rough night. My wife who never does this, decided to let our dog out to pee at 1:00 AM. Since my back problems keep me up virtually every night, I am always the one to do this little chore. We live in a forested area, so I always turn on our very bright halogen flood light before I open the door to make sure there are no critters out in the back yard. The one and only time my wife does it, she lets the dog out without turning on the light. So of course there was a skunk out there and the dog got sprayed pretty bad. Then my wife let the dog in the house and let her run all over the house before figuring out that she just spread the stink and skunk oil all over the house. And of course we did not have the necessary supplies to clean both the dog and the carpets, dog beds and everything else the dog came in contact with. So I have been up all night doing what little we could to clean up the dog and other stuff, with minimal success. Since I was way too hyped up to try and go to sleep, I then spent the next hour and a half trying the connections in my last post. So here it is now just about 8:00 am, the house reeks of skunk and I am a walking zombie. See what i mean when I say i am the un-luckyest person you ever met!


----------



## mike in ca

:clap: Tony
Well your trick on the hard reset fixed it. Thanks so much for all your help. I did find out why it was not working after the reset fixed it. Since i was not going to pass video through the receiver to the TV, I did not want to spend the bucks on an 8' THX HDMI cable just for the monitor out for the system setup screen to show on the TV. So since I had a really good Component cable, I hooked up the receiver monitor out via the component output. It seems one of the quirks of this receiver is that if you setup the system menu to have component monitor out, it shuts off the HDMI ports for audio. As soon as i changed the factory setup which is for HDMI for the monitor out to component, the audio stopped working with the HDMI connection. When i changed it back just using the receiver display, the audio started working again through the HDMI. Talk about strange! So I guess here goes another $48 for another HDMI cable and since there are only two ports pointing down on my TV and they are already in use, the only other HDMI ports on my TV are on the side and the cable will be sticking out the side. So i guess i will need a 90 degree HDMI adapter as well. But at least the problem has been solved. What a beating! But Thanks again for all the folks that chimed in to help.

Mike


----------



## tonyvdb

Thats great news Mike! Im glad it was as simple as that to fix the issue. 
Dont spend $48 on a HDMI cable a $10 HDMI cable from an outlet store will work just as well.

To check the version of your R-972 firmware:
hold Display and Enter/Memo

The latest "known" firmware is version 1.4


----------



## mike in ca

Thanks again. You are a wealth of knowledge on these receivers, and like you said, it does have it's quirks. 

Any idea why the TRINNOV setup put all the center channel information to my right main and put the right main information to the center channel? Like I said, when i set it up manually it worked as it should, so my connections are not the problem. I made sure to face the TRINNOV mic in the correct direction as well. Once I get the new HDMI cable and get the OSD back up, I will give it another shot, but I found that another anomaly that I so far, can not figure out. 

Also, a minor weird thing happaned. When i sent in the warranty card, it came back stamped undeliverable address. I guess Sherwood has closed up it's office in Cerritos, CA., so I just registered it online. 

This is my third Sherwood Newcastle A/V Receiver and they just seem to get more and more complicated to setup; but once they are set, they sound great. I have always had a preferance to British audio gear including speakers. Since I could never afford the B&W speakers I would want, I chose to go with KEF speakers; since they have a similar sound and are considerably less expensive than many of the other top end British speakers. Even still, I have almost $5,000 invested in speakers and I still want to change out my side surround speakers to a better KEF model. That will have to wait a while though after buying this new receiver. The Dipole KEF's I want are like $800 to $900 a pair, so it will be a while before I can spring that upgrade on my wife. Especially since she is hearing impared and can not really tell the difference. My ears, being a retired sound and recording engineer are quite a bit more sensitive and I can really tell the difference between all my other KEF's; as they were all top of the line series speakers and the Dipoles I have now were their bottom of their line series. That has always been my problem, my taste is always way more expensive than my income. 

I even prefer British cars and have owned most of the older models at one time or another, but I can tell you; after owning about 25 different British cars over the years, my Shelby AC Cobra 427 S/C Replica is about the most fun car I have ever owned; and if any of you ever get a chance to drive or own one; there is not another car on the road that is more fun. Mine does 0-60 in 3.5 seconds, stops on a dime and handles like it is on rails. It is at it's root a full on race car, so if you ever get a chance to drive one, respect the power or it will bite you really bad. It is just hard to find a mechanic that can still work on these old style cars; even though most of the running gear is all regular Ford parts. Sorry to get off subject here, but it just shows I love British cars and audio gear. 

Thanks

Mike


----------



## tonyvdb

mike in ca said:


> Any idea why the TRINNOV setup put all the center channel information to my right main and put the right main information to the center channel? Like I said, when i set it up manually it worked as it should, so my connections are not the problem. I made sure to face the TRINNOV mic in the correct direction as well. Once I get the new HDMI cable and get the OSD back up, I will give it another shot, but I found that another anomaly that I so far, can not figure out.
> 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Mike


thats odd, did you put the mic on a small tripod at ear level at the listening position? I am sure you have done thins but are you certain you have the speaker connections correct on the back of the receiver?


----------



## mike in ca

Yes I used a tripod and manually checked the connections, but like I said; when i turned off the TRINNOV the sound information came through the proper speakers. Weird Huh!


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## tonyvdb

Ya, the remaping is way off, I would run Trinnov again.


----------



## mike in ca

Yeah, even when I was setting it up, you know how it displays a visual image of all the speakers and lights up the speaker that the test tone is going through at the time. Well each tone came through the proper lighted speaker, so it should have worked, but i will give it another shot when i get the OSD back in operation when i get the new HDMI cable.


----------



## tonyvdb

Good plan, make sure its done when there are no external noises in the house. That can also mess things up.


----------



## bhazard

That's some good tech support right there.

Keep playing around with Trinnov. Use 3D Remapping and either Flat or Natural for the EQ for the best results. Once you dial it in, its worth all the trouble.


----------



## cconklin1

mike in ca said:


> Thanks again. You are a wealth of knowledge on these receivers, and like you said, it does have it's quirks.
> 
> Any idea why the TRINNOV setup put all the center channel information to my right main and put the right main information to the center channel? Like I said, when i set it up manually it worked as it should, so my connections are not the problem. I made sure to face the TRINNOV mic in the correct direction as well. Once I get the new HDMI cable and get the OSD back up, I will give it another shot, but I found that another anomaly that I so far, can not figure out.


Had exactly the same thing happen one time I ran trinnov as well. Just reset and do it again. It is one of its many quirks. As far as cables go, I have had FANTASTIC luck with the free redmere cables that consistently pop up on newegg. I must have some sort of disease as I just can't pass up free HDMI cables and have amassed about 40 of them! Redid my entire theater with them ans they work great and are super easy on the connectors due to their light weight. Work great with my Darbee Darblet as well! I highly recommend them!


----------



## sub_crazy

WHAT! Free redmere cables!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! what, when, how and were........too excited as I already know were (newegg) but how and when?


----------



## thucker

I've been eyeballing this receiver for a while. I'm finally moving into my new house and getting ready to upgrade my receiver. I've read great reports of the final product that Trinnov produces, but the receiver has been around for quite a few years. Do you guys think this receiver can still hold it's grounds against the newer receiver as far as sound quality. I don't need networking through the receiver, so thats not a big deal. I'm talking pure sound quality for movies, and maybe 20-30% music.


----------



## tonyvdb

thucker said:


> Do you guys think this receiver can still hold it's grounds against the newer receiver as far as sound quality. I don't need networking through the receiver, so thats not a big deal. I'm talking pure sound quality for movies, and maybe 20-30% music.


As far as sound quality, absolutely! Trinnov is really amazing and it does not seem like we will ever see it in another receiver any time soon. The 972 has its operational quirks but once you figure out how to get around them it really is no a big deal considering its only $600!


----------



## tesseract

Thucker - I will be going full 5.1 surround using Trinnov next week and will be posting my impressions in this thread. 

As far as music, I am a 2 channel audiophile from way back, and feel the R-972 has the goods. Just put this AVR back into my system recently, did a Trinnov calibration this morning, sitting listening as I type. A receiver wouldn't be my first choice for a music only system, I have a passive pre integrated that does a slightly better job, but for a mixed HT/music system it does a very good job.

My biggest interest is in how this machine handles 5.1 DVD-A and SACD's. Most people cannot place their speakers perfectly and I am in that camp with respect to my surrounds and center channel. Those three channels will be compromised and I am counting on Trinnov to fix that for me. Movie watching will also be enhanced, of course.


----------



## thucker

Thank you for the feedbacks fellas. 

I'll have a dedicated room at the new house that can actually have a front stage for a change. I've been using my current system in my living room with everything in a corner. It's a nightmare arrangement for sound.


----------



## tesseract

I'm looking at tripods for the Trinnov mics, does it use the standard size thread? Mic female opening looks smaller than my Canon point and shoot.

Here is the tripod.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-WEIFENG...sh=item51aa68a294&quantity=1&autorefresh=true


----------



## tonyvdb

Yes, its the standard thread.


----------



## typ44q

tesseract said:


> I'm looking at tripods for the Trinnov mics, does it use the standard size thread? Mic female opening looks smaller than my Canon point and shoot.
> 
> Here is the tripod.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-WEIFENG...sh=item51aa68a294&quantity=1&autorefresh=true


I think there are two common thread sizes used on tripods and the Trinnov mic uses the smaller one. It did not fit on my tripod or my friends. I think you can get an adapter for the smaller size.


----------



## sub_crazy

This set-up will be more than the tripod but it will be the only thing you need especially if you do REW measurements:

http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-...qid=1371652808&sr=8-1&keywords=boom+mic+stand

http://www.amazon.com/Stage-MY200-Universal-Microphone-Clip/dp/B00347A44I/ref=pd_sim_MI_7

http://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-Digital-Recorder-Adapter/dp/B001GWCC4I/ref=pd_sim_MI_11

The last is what I use to attach the Trinnov mic but it also fits Audyssey mics as well. The mic clip should be added since it is only $2.50 but in the whole order the shipping is free.


----------



## tesseract

typ44q said:


> I think there are two common thread sizes used on tripods and the Trinnov mic uses the smaller one. It did not fit on my tripod or my friends. I think you can get an adapter for the smaller size.





sub_crazy said:


> This set-up will be more than the tripod but it will be the only thing you need especially if you do REW measurements:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Stage-Stands-...qid=1371652808&sr=8-1&keywords=boom+mic+stand
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Stage-MY200-Universal-Microphone-Clip/dp/B00347A44I/ref=pd_sim_MI_7
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/CM01-Camera-Digital-Recorder-Adapter/dp/B001GWCC4I/ref=pd_sim_MI_11
> 
> The last is what I use to attach the Trinnov mic but it also fits Audyssey mics as well. The mic clip should be added since it is only $2.50 but in the whole order the shipping is free.


I already have that very same boom stand, got mic clips with my measurement mics but for $2.50 I can throw that one in.

I do need a tripod for my camera, and part of the appeal of the tripod is the built in level. But the boom will allow me to place the Trinnov mics precisely in the listening position and I can throw a bubble level on it. It's good to have options. 

Very cool guys, thanks!


----------



## anooj.mangalam

Hi All,

This is my first Post in this forum and I regularly read this along with another forum. About me, i stay in Kuwait and recently got a Sherwood Newcastle R-972 and the issue started as soon as i switched it on.

the unit is connected to a Stavol automatic voltage Stabilizer that outputs both 220V and 110V simultaneously. This is connected to 110V outlet through an adapter as the pins are different. the unit switches on alright but soon the Standby button with the amber color surrounding it starts clicking non-stop. The unit does not power on and I am not sure how even I can reset this unit until i get to the display. I have tried and switched it off atleast 10 times but to no chance, unplugged and plugged in the cord thrice, nope.

Ihav enot connected any cables - HDMi, speaker or subwoofer.

My question to all - Is this because the voltage is only 110V ?
Do I need a stepdown transformer with exact 120V output or this stabilizer would do as the unit has no other problems visibly.
Any help would be a relief, infact keeping my fingers crossed, atleast if I get this to work, trinnov comes so later.

Waiting for your valuable inputs.


----------



## tonyvdb

There could be a number of issues, one could be the voltage output is too low. Have you confirmed with a voltage meter that it in deed is outputting 110v AC? 110 is a bit low and if the amperage rating of your voltage stabilizer is not sufficient it wont work.


----------



## StephenR0

Since Kuwait seems to be 50hz, does your Stavol convert to 60hz? That could be the problem.


----------



## anooj.mangalam

Tony, thanks for the fast reply.

the Volt Stab is a 2000W rated one. I will have to buy a voltage meter to test the output. Will check and post here tomorrow. I hope the problem is MAX a bot the voltage being less. Thank you.


----------



## tonyvdb

StephenR0 said:


> Since Kuwait seems to be 50hz, does your Stavol convert to 60hz? That could be the problem.


Thats also very possible.
Hope you can fix the issue.


----------



## anooj.mangalam

The link to the STAB is as below

Please Google 'Powerwell' 'd the name is 'Stavol' (system not allowing me to post links.

Stereojeff had 2 months back assured the 972 will work fine in any frequency, infact waiting for his post in another forum but no response from anyone there from yesterday.Hoping for a +ve response.

Also, hoping for the lesser voltage to be the culprit. thanks.

i will buy a voltage mater tomorrow(if possible), check and post here.


----------



## anooj.mangalam

Tony, you are right on point - the culprit was the AVR that did give out enough voltage(I assume this because I did not use a voltage meter tot test) for 972 to start.

I bought a stepdown transformer that give 110V and no problems. I am yet to connect speakers, cables etc to go into the next stage of issues but the unit is working fine. All other issues are well documented, so I will not trouble anyone with those questions.

I regularly read HTS and AVSforums but never post as I live in Kuwait.Thank you one and all and I will post here about my Trinnov experience. Hope to have great fun using S/N R-972. Infact 60 HZ is not an issue at all because the STAVOL converts frequency too.

Will be back...


----------



## tonyvdb

Good to hear, let us know your thoughts when you get to that point.


----------



## typ44q

Yesterday my R-972 developed a problem where only HDMI 1 is working, all the other HDMI ports will not display video. Has anyone else had a problem like this?
I am guessing it will have to be sent in for repairs. I purchased mine from A4L new so it should still be under warranty?


----------



## tonyvdb

Try doing a hard reset before sending it back.


----------



## typ44q

Thanks I will give that a try hopefully it can be solved with something that easy. I would hate to ship this thing off and be without it for who knows how long.


----------



## typ44q

So I did a hard reset several times and HDMI inputs 2,3 and 4 still do not work. 
Has anyone had to send one of these in for repairs? any idea on the turnaround time?


----------



## Stereojeff

Call Eugene in Sherwood tech support at 714 739-2000 and ask.

Jeff


----------



## typ44q

Stereojeff said:


> Call Eugene in Sherwood tech support at 714 739-2000 and ask.
> 
> Jeff


Thanks for that number, I will give him a call when I get home.


----------



## busdepot

Been lurking here since I bought two R972 refurbs from 1saleaday. Unfortunately both had to go back to Sherwood for repair, but they're fine now (although typically quirky). IMO the R972's flaws are more than offset by its sound quality, and these forums have been a tremendous asset in helping me maximize that! (Then again I drive old British cars and Fiats, so have a high tolerance for finicky products.:bigsmile 

My biggest regret is not having bought a third unit for the family room. If anyone here decides to give up their R972 (for less than the $599 new price of course), I'd love to hear about it - whether purchased new or refurbished, working or not. Please email me at bd (at) busdepot (dotcom).

Thanks!


----------



## jrobbins50

Hello. I just purchased a refurb R-972 to try out as an alternative to my Marantz AV-7005. Setup seems to have gone well, including with the 3db+ bass files, but I am concerned about the SACD processing by the R-972. I have an Oppo BDP-93 hooked to HDMI 1 to play multi-channel SACD discs. What I don't understand is why the R-972 is seemingly down sampling the Oppo output -- the screen says PCM 44.1 MHz. In the Oppo Audio Format Setup, HDMI Audio is set to Bitstream, Coaxial/Optical Output is set to LPCM, the LPCM Rate Limit is set at 192k and the SACD Output is set for PCM. Switching HDMI Audio to LPCM makes no difference, and in fact, changing SACD Output to DSD (obviously not supported by the R-972) yields the same result (rather than not playing at all). Anyway, SACD sounds awful this way. What am I doing wrong? Thanks. JCR

P.S. the audio remastering button does not double the PCM notation, so that wouldn't seem to be the answer.


----------



## Steve2150

Just purchased my 2nd Sherwood Newcastle R-972 for my 2nd room, have the 1st about 1 1/2 years. With the new one playing a blu-ray only plays stereo not surround using hdmi. Same brand player, so I took the player and hdmifrom the first and connected it to the 2nd still only stereo while it played surround on the 1st. Noticed when first starting the new one the on screen menu froze so I shut it off and unplugged then the menu worked, doing trinnov it did not recognize the right front and left surround as no sound out of them but redid trinnov and then it worked. Tried different hdmi inputs, does surround with satellite hdmi input. The instruction manual is lacking. Which amp setting to use on 2nd bi-amp, surround back, on 1st 7 speakers on 2nd 5 speakers. Wonder if my 2nd is defective?


----------



## Steve2150

You can get them for $499 brand new


----------



## sdrucker

Steve2150 said:


> You can get them for $499 brand new


Not for long....AC4L is down to LT 10, and according to one user posting on AVS (and something I confirmed when I PM'd them to see if it were true), once this last set is sold, that's it - as in "once they're gone, they're gone forever".

FYI I bought an R-972 in late August, as part of an experiment I'm doing to compare to Audyssey XT32/Pro. Short version is that I'm using an Oppo 103 as a source for BluRay as well as TiVo and Apple TV via HDMI input, letting the R-972 apply Trinnov to that one HDMI input from the Oppo (with the Oppo outputting audio as LPCM), and using my existing Denon 4311 as an amp for the pre-out signal. The general idea is to use the Sherwood as a kind of REQ processor with benefits, and minimize its A/V sync liabilities. I also have a MiniDSP I'm using to integrate multiple subs. It's the "Rube Goldberg"/Frankenstein approach.

I've had some time issues due to work and a newborn, but I'm setting it up this weekend.

Wish me luck...


----------



## sdrucker

Following up my own post: it took me a few hours to get the sub trim right and one of my surrounds picked up, but I was able to get the R-972 calibrated relatively easily, with a center channel at 1 degree and my level trims all within 1 db of one another (and matching distance and delay settings for my L/C/R mains, and equal levels for my surrounds). I have a fair amount of work to do with the MiniDSP I'm using to keep my multiple subs set up as a single summed response, but so far I'm impressed.

I'm going to write more about this on AVS, where I'm more active. Given how well that Trinnov has revealed details and perceived separation in musical instruments, and created a more wraparound mix for movies with 3D remapping engaged (and IMO less artificially than Audyssey's DEQ), I'm surprised that even with the quirks, the R-972 hasn't been picked up by more advanced A/V users as a kind of single purpose processor. For the $499/599 AC4L charged + a capable BluRay player that can output LPCM, at the very least it's a cost-efficient solution vs. a $12K+ Trinnov or ADA unit. And even the quirks I notice with audio codec delay aren't horrible, as long as you have video bypass engaged. Extra credit for a separate amp, particularly if you can trim individual channels = which is what I did with my Denon 4311 being the amp from the R-972's pre-outs.

Speaking of which, AC4L lists them as sold out now.


----------



## tonyvdb

sdrucker said:


> Speaking of which, AC4L lists them as sold out now.


Then that's it for stock. They took all the remaining units Sherwood had. Any units floating around on other sites I would be very cautious of buying. As there have been some posts that they are faulty units.


----------



## sdrucker

tonyvdb said:


> Then that's it for stock. They took all the remaining units Sherwood had. Any units floating around on other sites I would be very cautious of buying. As there have been some posts that they are faulty units.



The assumption is that AC4L wasn't pulling our leg about that "gone forever" part as part of the holiday season buying frenzy. However, they strike me as honorable (which they'd have to be, given how many returns they must have gotten over the last two years), so they're probably telling the truth.

The refurbished ones for sure I'd be very, very cautious of, given how much bad press they've gotten here and AVS. In fact, even with the three year warranty from Sherwood, I was paranoid enough that the unit I bought might break down outside of that time window, and picked up a second one over the weekend just in case as the stock went into single figures. Another $500 was a small investment for something that I hope lasts us for a long time to come. Good thing we have the storage space in our condo's storage locker. And yes, I think Trinnov is worth it that much.

I wonder if Sherwood will still repair the units after the three year warranties from 2012 (or earlier?) start expiring. Anybody have any experience or thoughts about that?


----------



## sdrucker

Odd question for anybody that's done pre/post Trinnov measurements with the R-972:

As you know, Trinnov calculates a crossover for each speaker based on the mean of the -6 db point of that speaker on the low end, and the -6 db of the subwoofer(s) on the high end.

When measuring pre/post, are you going back and setting the Trinnov manually (without Trinnov engaged) to the crossover calculated by the Trinnov algorithm for that position, within the nearest 10 Hz? That would seem reasonable.

It's an issue because on another forum many of us know (the three letter one beginning with "A"), there have been some users that have turned off Trinnov and changed the crossovers - i.e. moving an 80 Hz crossover manually to "full range". As a result, they claim this reset would stick for the Trinnov calibration, effectively overriding the Trinnov results. The same for other settings that are changed, like distance, and even SW mode (moving "LFE" to "LFE+Mains"), literally speaking. 

That's a concern for me because if I do pre/post Trinnov measurement, that would mean that trying to match the crossovers "manually" (no Trinnov) to what Trinnov does for comparative purposes would override the calibration's effects. 

Also, does the R-972 use the calculated crossover point or a rounded variation internally? That IIRC is the sensitivity of crossover values in the R-972 as such.

Reason I'm asking is that same forum, there's a former R-972 user that raised the point that the R-972 is more prone to crossover mismatch between mains and sub due to this rounding error. He cited the Rich article from BAS as a source.

This is esoteric, as in doing any "matching" of pre/post crossovers for a given speaker for REW testing purposes, I'd pick the crossover that matches the Trinnov result for the calibration in question to the nearest 10 Hz, rounding upward, as in general raising crossovers above a calculated one is less harmful than lowering them. At least in the Audyssey world, that is.

Hope this makes some sense. Thanks!


----------



## rob755

Hi, I sure hope it's ok to jump in here with a couple of quick questions...as I just can not, for time & physical reasons, go through all this info right now...Will the 972 recognize and figure out I have only one centered surround BACK speaker on its own and combine "Back" signals there? (for a 6.1 set-up) or is there a way I need to tell it that? It is not set-up yet in here, and I need to make some decisions to decide "if" is why I am compelled to ask now...Thanks very much if anyone can clarify...


----------



## sub_crazy

rob755 said:


> Hi, I sure hope it's ok to jump in here with a couple of quick questions...as I just can not, for time & physical reasons, go through all this info right now...Will the 972 recognize and figure out I have only one centered surround BACK speaker on its own and combine "Back" signals there? (for a 6.1 set-up) or is there a way I need to tell it that? It is not set-up yet in here, and I need to make some decisions to decide "if" is why I am compelled to ask now...Thanks very much if anyone can clarify...


Yes, the 972 will recognize a single back and configure it properly. You can put a speaker anywhere and Trinnov will find an appropriate use for it, that's the beauty of the system.


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## rob755

Thanks for the reply! I bought one and then turned around and bought another before the first even arrived, for the other system just in case it was a keeper for me...it was the next to last one they had, and the last sold the same day. I'm glad I did...very very nice! :clap:


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## redpark91

Hello,

Just wondering if there's someone who has the same issue as mine.

My speaker setup is 5.0 (No subwoofer). 
It happened yesterday that I demoed 5.1 dolby test sample file downloaded from somewhere.
The clip has separate test sounds for each channels including LFE channel.
I noticed that my R972 didn't play LFE channel when I use it with Trinnov (literally no LFE sounds at all).
But It is ok without Trinnov, I could hear fairly deep lows from my Klipsch RF82 fronts.

My system setup for subwoofer is "None"
Am I missing something in my system setup? 

Thanks.

H


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## BeeMan458

redpark91 said:


> Am I missing something in my system setup?


Stating the obvious, the LFE channel is intended to be used with a subwoofer.

With that in mind, my understanding, in the main menu (subwoofer) turn your LFE channel off and set all your speakers to large. The AVR should play, to the best of your mains ability, all the bass the speakers are capable of reproducing.

Remember, the LFE channel is spec'd to <20Hz and most speakers are way above that limit. Anything the mains can't reproduce, is lost.

Specs for the RF-82; Frequency Response: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB. Depending on the acoustics in the room and how they interact at the MLP (nulls, dips, cancellation), the resulting interaction, from 33Hz to 120Hz, could be a whole lot worse.

What speakers are you currently using?


----------



## redpark91

BeeMan458 said:


> Stating the obvious, the LFE channel is intended to be used with a subwoofer.
> 
> With that in mind, my understanding, in the main menu (subwoofer) turn your LFE channel off and set all your speakers to large. The AVR should play, to the best of your mains ability, all the bass the speakers are capable of reproducing.
> 
> Remember, the LFE channel is spec'd to <20Hz and most speakers are way above that limit. Anything the mains can't reproduce, is lost.
> 
> Specs for the RF-82;Frequency Response: 33Hz-24KHz ± 3dB. Depending on the acoustics in the room and how they interact at the MLP (nulls, dips, cancellation), the resulting interaction, from 33Hz to 120Hz, could be a whole lot worse.
> 
> What speakers are you currently using?


Thanks for the quick respons :T

The test file plays LFE tone from 120 Hz to 20 Hz.
You can download the file here; 
- www.tfm.ro/win32-projects/test-avi-ac3/ 

Even the LFE channel is supposed to be played using a subwoofer, my system could play the LFE sound through the 5.0 setup when testing with the file (Trinnov is turned off). 

However, when I turn the Trinnov ON, the LFE channel dosesn't sound at all with this test file. Also, it is obvious that the LFE sound is not heard when playing movie title.

Here's my setup in detail;

* Speakers (No subwoofer)
- Front: Klipsch RF82 ; 33Hz-23kHz +/-3dB 
- Center: Klipsch RC35 ; 56Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB
- Surrond: Klipsch RB35 ; 45Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB 

* Setup (R972)
- System Setup > Subwoofer Mode @ "Normal"
- Speaker/Listening Setup > Speaker Config. > Subwoofer @ "No"
- Speaker/Listening Setup > X-over Frequency > Front/Center/Surround @ 'Full'
- Trinnov setting ; Natural / 3D Remap 

Thanks.

H


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## BeeMan458

redpark91 said:


> Here's my setup in detail;
> 
> * Speakers (No subwoofer)
> - Front: Klipsch RF82 ; 33Hz-23kHz +/-3dB
> - Center: Klipsch RC35 ; 56Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB
> - Surrond: Klipsch RB35 ; 45Hz-20kHz (+-)3dB
> 
> * Setup (R972)
> - System Setup > Subwoofer Mode @ "Normal"
> - Speaker/Listening Setup > Speaker Config. > Subwoofer @ "No"
> - Speaker/Listening Setup > X-over Frequency > Front/Center/Surround @ 'Full'
> - Trinnov setting ; Natural / 3D Remap


Your speakers, assuming they're dialed in +/-3dB are not going have much low bass and that's not a knock on your speakers. That's just the penalty of not having a proper subwoofer that's capable of <20Hz playback.

As to your subwoofer, not knowing the Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 menu protocol, based on the Denon menu for the AVR4520CI, the LFE channel needs to be turned off. "As to Subwoofer @ "No,"" my understanding, that just tells the EQ program, not to look for a subwoofer but the LFE channel is still turned on.


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## redpark91

BeeMan458 said:


> You're speakers, assuming they're dialed in +/-3dB are not going have much low bass and that's not a knock on your speakers. That's just the penalty of not having a proper subwoofer that's capable of <20Hz playback.
> 
> As to your subwoofer, not knowing the Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 menu protocol, based on the Denon menu for the AVR4520CI, the LFE channel needs to be turned off. "As to Subwoofer @ "No,"" my understanding, that just tells the EQ program, not to look for a subwoofer but the LFE channel is still turned on.


For now, I'm not thinking having a subwoofer because I'm satisfied with my current bass that is produced through the Klipsch RF82.

Back to my original question, I'm still wondering why I cannot hear LFE channel with Trinnov ON while I can hear the very same channel re-routed to the fronts with Trinnov OFF.

Thanks 
H


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## BeeMan458

redpark91 said:


> Back to my original question, I'm still wondering why I cannot hear LFE channel with Trinnov ON while I can hear the very same channel re-routed to the fronts with Trinnov OFF.


Maybe you missed this comment that I posted: "...the LFE channel needs to be turned off."

By turning the LFE channel off, with all speakers set to large, the LFE channel material is redirected to the speakers and the speakers will reproduce as much as they're capable of reproducing.


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## redpark91

BeeMan458 said:


> Maybe you missed this comment that I posted: "...the LFE channel needs to be turned off."
> 
> By turning the LFE channel off, with all speakers set to large, the LFE channel material is redirected to the speakers and the speakers will reproduce as much as they're capable of reproducing.


You're right. I didn't know you were mentioning other option than just setting the subwoofer to "NO".
Now, I'm trying to find a menu for turning off the LFE channel.... but there's no such a menu that I can turn off. Or, at least I'm looking at wrong menu?
Do you know where is that menu?


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## BeeMan458

redpark91 said:


> Do you know where is that menu?


With certainty, only in our AVR's menu.

I checked our Denon menu and I was in error. We don't have an off switch in the speaker/manual heading. It has either LFE or LFE+Mains.

Try LFE+Mains and see if that will get the bass to your mains.


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## redpark91

BeeMan458 said:


> With certainty, only in our AVR's menu.
> 
> I checked our Denon menu and I was in error. We don't have an off switch in the speaker/manual heading. It has either LFE or LFE+Mains.
> 
> Try LFE+Mains and see if that will get the bass to your mains.


Sorry, I couldn't find 'LFE+Mains' form the R972 menu.


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## tonyvdb

I have an r972, 
In the menus under System setup, there is a setting called Subwoofer mode. It let's you choose Normal or SW Plus+
When you ran the Trinnov did you have a subwoofer connected?


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## BeeMan458

That's pretty much the last I can offer as I don't have a manual to look at to see if the R-972 has an equivalent setting.


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## redpark91

tonyvdb said:


> I have an r972,
> In the menus under System setup, there is a setting called Subwoofer mode. It let's you choose Normal or SW Plus+
> When you ran the Trinnov did you have a subwoofer connected?


No, I never had a subwoofer. So, the Trinnov auto setup was done using 5.0 speakers.


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## tonyvdb

And you placed the trinnov mic on a stand at ear level in the listening position?


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## BeeMan458

redpark91 said:


> No, I never had a subwoofer.


Hmmmmmmmmm!

...:yikes:

I gotta ask; do you have plans to add one in the near future?


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## redpark91

tonyvdb said:


> And you placed the trinnov mic on a stand at ear level in the listening position?


Yes I did. Also, I repeated the auto setup until I saw the setup results as I expected.


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## redpark91

BeeMan458 said:


> Hmmmmmmmmm!
> 
> ...:yikes:
> 
> I gotta ask; do you have plans to add one in the near future?


I have no plan to add one yet, however, maybe I will have to change my mind if Trinnov dosen't support 5.0 setup as far as LFE channel goes


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## sandbagger

If anyone runs across a 972 for sale I am looking and would greatly appreciate it


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## dougri

Read through the thread here, confirmed latest firmware, conducted reset and still get no sound or picture at all. everything hdmi: monitor out: LG 55LHX, HDMI1: cable box, HDMI2:apple tv 2, HDMI3: panny BDT500. No sound from test tone (while receiver's display shows cycling through speakers), no response from 'display', 'setup' or 'monitor output' buttons. Really at a loss on where to go from here. Unit was open box from A4L a week and a half ago, so still well within return window, but given these are no longer available, I want to make sure I'm not missing something before returning it. If I were seeing something, anything, I'd be more likely to think it is simply a setup issue, but it is a bit hard to get into the menu when it will not display OSD to monitor, or even respond to the 'setup' button on the receiver's display. nothing. Shouldn't the test tones at least produce noise?


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## sub_crazy

Looks like you got a lemon, sorry to say. I have 2 972's and never once experienced what you're going through except no test tones for me either so I don't know why you not getting any output. 

I am still crossing my fingers both my 972's keep on working and I hope you get yours working as well as it really is worth it.


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## dougri

Stereojeff said:


> Call Eugene in Sherwood tech support at 714 739-2000 and ask.
> 
> Jeff


Does anyone have a current number where I can reach tech support for S-N? The numbers on the website are in error (get a person, but not Sherwood support… they gave me another number, but I'm not sure it is Sherwood… left a msg). The number provided by stereojeff goes to voicemail, but all mailboxes are full. I think they may have changed distributors, but cannot find the contact info for support.


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## rob755

sandbagger said:


> If anyone runs across a 972 for sale I am looking and would greatly appreciate it


Hi, I have one avail. I bought two right at the end of availability from AC4L. This one is the next to last one they had and the last sold hours later. Just took delivery of both in Jan. this year. Just opened for a quick test to make sure it worked. Things have pretty drastically changed with us since, with health related costs and inability to keep at my line of work. Looks like my back-up needs to go. I have the receipt and have a 713 count feedback at 100% perfect over on the bay...and a'gon, but would like to avoid the fees. I will help arrange for service if needed down the road for the remainder of its 3 year warranty. Respond with contact info if interested.


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## sdrucker

dougri said:


> Does anyone have a current number where I can reach tech support for S-N? The numbers on the website are in error (get a person, but not Sherwood support&#133; they gave me another number, but I'm not sure it is Sherwood&#133; left a msg). The number provided by stereojeff goes to voicemail, but all mailboxes are full. I think they may have changed distributors, but cannot find the contact info for support.


They're now apparently a nameplate for "American Audio/Video", as per the Sherwood USA site. Did you try calling the customer support number from the Contact part of their site, which was (866) 916-4667? Or ask AC4L if they had a contact for warranty/service?


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## sam1000

rob755 said:


> Hi, I have one avail. I bought two right at the end of availability from AC4L. This one is the next to last one they had and the last sold hours later. Just took delivery of both in Jan. this year. Just opened for a quick test to make sure it worked. Things have pretty drastically changed with us since, with health related costs and inability to keep at my line of work. Looks like my back-up needs to go. I have the receipt and have a 713 count feedback at 100% perfect over on the bay...and a'gon, but would like to avoid the fees. I will help arrange for service if needed down the road for the remainder of its 3 year warranty. Respond with contact info if interested.


I'm interested in buying it. I'll send you a PM now since this is my 5th post


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## sam1000

hmmm.
I sent you a PM and got this error..

"rob755 does not receive private messages. "

You can PM me and give me your info and I'll contact you.
Thx!


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## rob755

Well unfortunately I just found your message in my computers spam mailbox (new anti-virus). I did sell my back up unit to a fellow on AVS forums, I got the full price I paid of $499 & shipping. Did you find one? Are you still interested in one? If you are really feeling desperate for one, I may consider selling my other that I just got in Jan. as well. It's in the house system which I just watch movies when we get them in, otherwise my wife does about all the watching and is just fine with the soundbar also hooked up to the set. My ebay id is heartwood29 if you cared to look. Thanks for responding anyway...Rob 
541-404-0296


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## sam1000

Thx ROb. I'll contact you tomorrow.. You can delete your contact info from the post..


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## tthurman

Just wanted to post a big "Thank You!" to all that contributed useful information as to how to get these up and running. 

I purchased my first 972 right before Thanksgiving 2012, to replace an older Sherwood AVR in my bonus room setup, that was part of the SLS Audio HTIB from Bestbuy. That said, I was aware of the crazy remote beforehand. 

That install unfortunately was delayed, but I read enough to know that if you could deal with the quirks, you would be rewarded with the some fantastic performance. Due to this I bought another one around Thanksgiving 2013, and I've just finished the lengthy process of reworking my entire main system setup. I followed the advice in this thread, and had the system up and configured in short order due to the wealth of information here. If only cable management had been this easy!

It does produce an amazing sound-stage, the dialogue is so much improved over my Denon 3803.

Hopefully my schedule will allow me to finally complete my secondary system soon. I can only hope my other setup goes as smoothly.


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## Apollomeo

I noticed you have a turntable set-up with your R-972. I'm trying to connect an Pioneer PL-D12 II using a Parasound PPH 100 pre amp. I have the pre amp running into my Ext In (L/R jacks). Is that correct?

Thanks for any assistance you can provide.


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## tonyvdb

Apollomeo said:


> I have the pre amp running into my Ext In (L/R jacks). Is that correct?


As was mentioned in your first post you need to have them plugged into "tape" or Aux" input not the external multi channel analog inputs and then assign them to an analog input in the user menu.


----------



## Apollomeo

So that is done. The OSM will not allow me to assign anything to tape, other than change the name. No audio still. My pre-amp is cold as a stone...is that natural?


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## tonyvdb

Are you certain that your pre amp is working?


----------



## Apollomeo

At this point I am not certain the pre-amp is working. It's newly acquired and is MC/MM capable, but I think it should be generating some heat, which it isn't. I bought it used off ebay. Thankfully a reputable seller and I have a note into them for some support.


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## tonyvdb

I believe if you hook the TT directly up to the R972 you should hear something although very quiet just to confirm that it's not the input on the 972.


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## Apollomeo

True. I did...very faint but I heard it.


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## Apollomeo

Pre amp guys got back to me and suggested the pre amp might be bad. More to follow. Any suggestions on a new pre-amp to pair?


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## tonyvdb

Yup, sounds like the pre amp is dead, sorry to hear that. Hopefully you get a replacement soon.


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## tesseract

Apollomeo said:


> Pre amp guys got back to me and suggested the pre amp might be bad. More to follow. Any suggestions on a new pre-amp to pair?


What is your price range?

I use the Pro-Ject Phono Box S, and really like it a lot.


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## Apollomeo

Paid $125 for the Parasound, used. What are the benefits of the Pro Ject Phono Box S?


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## Apollomeo

The good news is there are jumpers inside for MM or MC cartridges, which could be the problem. Hoping someone can tell me what kind I have. It's a Pickering, but I cant find a model number.


----------



## tesseract

Apollomeo said:


> Paid $125 for the Parasound, used. What are the benefits of the Pro Ject Phono Box S?


The Parasound is competent if you can get it going.

The Phono Box S has adjustable impedance and capacitance (useful if your Pickering is MM), a subsonic filter, dual mono circuitry, power button and a much higher signal to noise ratio. It is the best bargain at the price that I could find after an extensive search.


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## tesseract

Apollomeo said:


> The good news is there are jumpers inside for MM or MC cartridges, which could be the problem. Hoping someone can tell me what kind I have. It's a Pickering, but I cant find a model number.


If you like, post a picture of your cartridge in the *CD Players | Turntables* sub forum, maybe we can figure out what you have.


----------



## rumberobueno

*Sherwood/Newcastle R-972 Latest Firmware and USB Port Questions*

Hi everyone !

I picked up two R-972 units a few weeks ago. I've been reading through forums and did some searches but I couldn't find any answers to some of the questions I have.

I was also on hold for an hour with Sherwood technical support today and when I finally got a tech on the line he was pretty useless. I had to tell him that this unit does not have an Ethernet connection and cannot connect to the Internet.

I updated to the latest firmware from Sherwood's web site. My unit says: R972 VER 1.47 (2010.08.12 17:00). Is this the latest firmware ? If it's not, where can I get the latest one ?

The USB port of one of the units doesn't work. Is there a way to flash the bass target files through RS232 with the update utility found on Sherwood's web site ? If yes, how should I do it ?

Does anyone have a problem with the USB port not working ? If yes, is there any fix for it (other than sending in the unit) ?

Thanks in advance,

rumbero


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## tonyvdb

Version 1.47 is the last release of firmware that I know of for the R972 as for the USB port not working that's a new one. I'm not sure if that's fixable without a service from the Sherwood people. Have you heard anything from them yet?


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## rumberobueno

I talked to the tech this morning and he said that I should talk to the person I got it from.

I don't believe they have more of these units so I either return it or live with the broken USB port. 

That port is useful only for loading the bass targets as far as I am concerned. So if I can upload the bass targets using the RS232 then it's a non issue.

I'll sent an email to the seller to see what they say.


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## Ls1tx

Hello everyone, I recently purchased sherwood 972 and cannot get the trinnov set up to locate any of the speakers. If I get lucky I sometime get info for the front right. I only get three beeps before it moves on to the next speaker. I have tried adjusting the height of the tripod, moving the mic left and right, tilting the mic with no success. This I my second unit the first unit I ordered I could not get he trinnov to locate the speakers, so I returned it thinking it's a faulty unit. Any suggestions, I too called the 1800 number for sherwood and the tech guy wasn't any help. I would like to try and trouble shoot this unit because I have a feeling I may be doing something incorrectly. Even without the trinnov I like the way this receiver sounds


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## tonyvdb

That's an odd issue, are you pointing the mic up towards the ceiling? Are you certain that you have the phase correct for all your speaker wires?


----------



## Ls1tx

I have the mic positioned where the red dot point to the front of the room and the prongs are pointing up. I will double check the phase on all speakers. Any other suggestions?


----------



## Stereojeff

It's not a problem with speaker phase. Even if it were, Trinnov would simply correct the phase when it remapped. 

Be sure the mic cable is fully inserted into the R-972. Then try a full reset. If neither solves your problem, it needs technical help.

Jeff


----------



## Ls1tx

Well, I checked the phase on all of the speaker connections and all of them were correct. I also try what stereo Jeff recommended about the reset( I followed the instructions on page 1) and still no success with the trinnov feature. I am pretty bummed out because I was really looking forward to using the unit. Stereojeff what do you mean by technical help? Shipping it to manufacturer or calling the 1800 technical support number? I am determined to make it work and will be happy to trouble shoot it more if anyone has any other suggestions???

Thanks for you help so far guys!


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## Stereojeff

Technical help as in service station repair. 

Jeff


----------



## tonyvdb

How high off the floor do you have the mic, are your main speakers at ear level?
Try changing the "toe-in" of the speakers.


----------



## Ls1tx

I have tried placing the mic 3 ft off the ground, ear level, 4ft and 5ft. I have also made sure the mic was perfectly level on the tripod, I even tried angling the mic, with no luck. By toe in do you mean angle the speaker in towards each other a little? If so I tried that and that's is how I got the front right speaker to register. I was only able to get the front right speaker and I tried the set up 7 or so times. Mic in different parts of the room. Speakers are at the following heights:

Front towers are about 41" tall 
Center is 26" off the floor 
Surrounds are 55" from floor on in rear wall (couch backs up into wall)

I am a little apprehensive to ship this unit back to the seller since I already changed it out once and got almost the same results. The previous receiver would only read the front left speaker. I have even swapped the speakers around to make sure here wasn't something wrong with speakers and regardless of which speaker I use it only reads the front right.


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## tonyvdb

hmm, I'm thinking something is wrong with the mic. Makes me wonder where the person you are getting these R972s from as all new stock was sold out many months ago. I'm leery about this.


----------



## Ls1tx

I am not sure if I can post where I purchased my unit from (some forums have non sponsor rules etc and I am new here) but when I shipped my first unit the return label went to the sherwood inkel address I found in google. I figured they were of good source. I have been listening to the receiver in 2channel music and it really does sound nice. Makes me want to figure our whats going on with the trinnov even more. The only thing is communicating with the seller is really tough as the seller is not too responsive to my emails. Anyone know how I can reach someone at a repair station? I would rather ship it to get repaired than for an exchange since this is the second one I get with the same issue and return shipping was on my dime.

Thanks for all of the suggestions so far..


----------



## islandman2020

Ls1tx said:


> I am not sure if I can post where I purchased my unit from (some forums have non sponsor rules etc and I am new here) but when I shipped my first unit the return label went to the sherwood inkel address I found in google. I figured they were of good source. I have been listening to the receiver in 2channel music and it really does sound nice. Makes me want to figure our whats going on with the trinnov even more. The only thing is communicating with the seller is really tough as the seller is not too responsive to my emails. Anyone know how I can reach someone at a repair station? I would rather ship it to get repaired than for an exchange since this is the second one I get with the same issue and return shipping was on my dime.
> 
> Thanks for all of the suggestions so far..



Hey ls1tx, and welcome to the forum! I don't think HTS will mind you mentioning where you got it from since the R-972 is no longer made. Is it still under warranty? You might try calling Eugene Chavez directly at Sherwood at 714-739-2000. Don't give up! Try to get it fixed. After 3 years of owning the R-972 I still consider it the best audio purchase I have ever made, and that spans about 40 years!


----------



## Ls1tx

Thank you for the information islandman. I purchased it from etron shop. It's supposed to come with a 1 yr warranty according to the warranty card. I try to get ahold of Eugene to see what my options are.


----------



## islandman2020

Ls1tx said:


> Thank you for the information islandman. I purchased it from etron shop. It's supposed to come with a 1 yr warranty according to the warranty card. I try to get ahold of Eugene to see what my options are.


The new ones came with a 3 year warranty. The one you have must be a refurbished unit. Unfortunately, the refurbs were the ones that people had the most trouble with. Good luck with your call to Sherwood.


----------



## tlkreddy

Hi,

Does Trinnov room correction work if the pre outs in R972 are connected to an external amplifier (Emotiva XPA-5). 

Thanks
Reddy


----------



## tonyvdb

tlkreddy said:


> Hi,
> 
> Does Trinnov room correction work if the pre outs in R972 are connected to an external amplifier (Emotiva XPA-5).
> 
> Thanks
> Reddy


Yes, that is no problem at all.


----------



## tlkreddy

Thank you tonyvdb and appreciate your response. Today I called Sherwood customer service # from the website which is answered by a dealer representative and said the Trinnov won't work with pre outs connected to an ext amp.


----------



## tonyvdb

They must have misunderstood you. I've had my r972 hooked up to an external amp and it works just fine with Trinnov. I wonder if they thought you meant using the external multi channel inputs?


----------



## islandman2020

Tony is correct. I have been using the R-972 (with Trinnov) as a pre/pro with 3 external power amps. Works beautifully.


----------



## tlkreddy

Thank you islandman2020 for responding. Please advice if my connections are wrong. Oppo BDP-93 Video2 to R972 Video1 through HDMI(Audioquest COFFEE with DBS) and FL,C,FR,SR,SL pre outs of R972 to Emotiva XPA-5. SBR and SBL to the SURROUND BACK/MULTI connections of R972. The R972 Video1 is set to Trinnov calibrated position, FLAT,2D Spatial, CinemaEQ ON. The 3D spatial is good for sweet spot only and the dialogue moves to right or left when sitting 2ft right or left to sweet spot.


----------



## sdrucker

tlkreddy said:


> Thank you islandman2020 for responding. Please advice if my connections are wrong. Oppo BDP-93 Video2 to R972 Video1 through HDMI(Audioquest COFFEE with DBS) and FL,C,FR,SR,SL pre outs of R972 to Emotiva XPA-5. SBR and SBL to the SURROUND BACK/MULTI connections of R972. The R972 Video1 is set to Trinnov calibrated position, FLAT,2D Spatial, CinemaEQ ON. The 3D spatial is good for sweet spot only and the dialogue moves to right or left when sitting 2ft right or left to sweet spot.


Not surprising, since the Sherwood's implementation of Trinnov only allows a single measurement, and 3D Remapping is sensitive to height and azimuth (horizontal) placement. You can measure and save up to three individual measurement/calibration positions, so in theory you could simply switch positions on Video 1 Output, or save a separate Video output to work with the Oppo 93 (currently HDMI 2, if that's what you mean by Video 2 Input in your first sentence). Then you would use all your other Video 1 Output settings with it (Flat, 2D or 3D Remapping. etc), with the exception of a different Measurement position for a location other than the sweet spot. 

The "virtual" outputs are very handy. Even though I have just one HDMI video input (reserved for an Oppo 103 with two HDMI inputs I use for TiVo and either Apple TV or REW measuring), my R-972 is set up for five outputs: 7.1 no EQ (for testing purposes), 7.1 Music w/o remapping, 7.1 Music with 3D Remapping, 7.1 Cinema with 2D Remapping, and finally 7.1 Cinema with 3D Remapping. I also have a separate analog two-channel CD setting with Trinnov enabled - which you can do as the dedicated two-channel analog input can get calibrated - but I've found that I prefer multichannel upmixing so it's unused. 

One nice thing about the R-972, and in some ways ahead of its time compared even to Audyssey-capable AVRs today, is the ability to switch between measurements and use Flat vs. a "Natural" (gently tilted) target curve. Also, due to the use of full range FIR and restricted bandwidth IIR filters, you can selectively EQ speakers only up to 300 Hz if you see fit, a/k/a the so-called Audiophile setting. For more information about Trinnov in its Sherwood form, see here: http://www.cahoyt.com/Trinnov/R972Trinnov.pdf 

As to tech support advice, unfortunately at this point you're best off checking for advice here or on AVS Forum when it comes to the R-972, since apparently Sherwood USA no longer exists except as a placeholder name for value AVRs and Bluetooth/WiFi products (soundbars and speakers), with support outsourced to American Audio/Video (see the email and phone contact info on the Sherwood USA website), which is an importer/distributor of CE products according to their website. From your descriptions, the support person clearly doesn't have knowledge of basic pre/pro functionality, let alone the R-972. A sad end to a once SOTA product. 

BTW I feed the 7 pre-outs from the Sherwood into the EXT. IN of a Denon AVR I use as an amp (as well as a conventional AVR with Audyssey XT32 engaged for other sources), and it works fine with Trinnov pre-out.


----------



## sdrucker

Speaking of warranties, has anybody that has bought from AC4L in the past had to invoke warranty support this year? They sold their units with a three year warranty if I remember correctly, but just wondering how (or if) they're replacing any units sent back since the sale of receivers stopped in December of last year.


----------



## tlkreddy

Thank you sdrucker for taking time to explain and makes sense to me and appreciate it.


----------



## Ls1tx

Hello all, I called the number that was posted for Eugene, but it's just a recording no real option to leave a message. Guess I will either return the unit for a refund (select is not willing to exchange it again) or I could keep it and not have the trinnov feature. For people that have owned the r972 and other recovers in the sub$700 range. Was the sound of the Sherwood comparable, I was blown away by how good this receiver sounded even without the auto eq compared toy previous entry level yamaha. I would hate to return it only to get a fully functioning not that sounds worst. I am wondering if the reason I think the sherwood sounds so nice is bc I am stepping up from a $100 yamaha I bought 8 yrs ago or if it's Because the sherwood is a better than most unit. If there are other reliever that are comparable (since I may have to move on from the sherwood) any suggestions on what to get? I am new to hometheater. 

My speaker set up is as follows:
Front towers : boston acoustics rs334
Center : boston acoustic vs325c
Surrounds: dayton audio me625w (in walls)
Subwoofer: focal chorus sw700 

Thanks


----------



## tonyvdb

A $100 receiver compared to a receiver that originally sold for $1800 is a big improvement just on its own. There were some real improvements made in DACs and such in around 2006 where the gap was really closed between the high end boutique units and lower end sub $500 units. You would very likely hear the same difference in any manufacturers receivers now compaird to your old Yamaha. Sadly its Trinnov that makes the R972 stand out and without that its really a wash.


----------



## sdrucker

Ls1tx said:


> Hello all, I called the number that was posted for Eugene, but it's just a recording no real option to leave a message. Guess I will either return the unit for a refund (select is not willing to exchange it again) or I could keep it and not have the trinnov feature. For people that have owned the r972 and other recovers in the sub$700 range. Was the sound of the Sherwood comparable, I was blown away by how good this receiver sounded even without the auto eq compared toy previous entry level yamaha. I would hate to return it only to get a fully functioning not that sounds worst. I am wondering if the reason I think the sherwood sounds so nice is bc I am stepping up from a $100 yamaha I bought 8 yrs ago or if it's Because the sherwood is a better than most unit. If there are other reliever that are comparable (since I may have to move on from the sherwood) any suggestions on what to get? I am new to hometheater.
> 
> My speaker set up is as follows:
> Front towers : boston acoustics rs334
> Center : boston acoustic vs325c
> Surrounds: dayton audio me625w (in walls)
> Subwoofer: focal chorus sw700
> 
> Thanks


One obvious thought: what volume are you using for the Trinnov cal? I'd try reference (0 on the volume) or close to it. Also, have you verified that all your speakers work without any EQ (setting=None on the relevant "video"/HDMI input), and that you have all speakers recognized on the Setup screen (i.e. speakers set to small for front, center and surrounds) and the subwoofer=yes? I do know that with the subs you sometimes have to raise their volume to get the sub channel recognized. And as far as I know the manual settings for level and distance are ignored by the Trinnov cal. However, you still have to define the right speakers + sub being present for the Sherwood implementation of Trinnov to recognize them.

I also take it that the mic you've got is the one with the Trinnov Audio label on front, and that it's plugged into the mic jack on the back of the receiver.

BTW I'm more of an AVS guy than a frequent poster here, but FWIW I'm upgrading to a Trinnov Altitude later this year or early next, so my R-972, which I bought in 9/13 from AC4L with a three year warranty at the time, will be available.


----------



## tonyvdb

The volume on the r972 is not adjustable during Trinnov. It automatically adjusts it level to 75db during its first sweep.


----------



## sdrucker

tonyvdb said:


> The volume on the r972 is not adjustable during Trinnov. It automatically adjusts it level to 75db during its first sweep.


You're right: I forgot that in my setup I have the R-972 plugged on EXT. IN into the Denon and adjusted the volume on my 4311 a bit to get my sub(s) picked up by the cal, when I didn't want to play with the trims on my subs for other reasons (wanting to keep them intact to compare the R-972 to Audyssey). I'd vaguely remembered some guys on the other forum finding that different db levels made a difference in how well the cal picked up speakers, but that may have been to do using an amp with a gain control (i.e. a spare AVR), or just related to sub trim.

FWIW when I did my cals I had reference=0 to be conservative, and other than the sub issue and a minor one with getting a surround recognized initially, running the cal isn't difficult once you get the hang of positioning the mic to aim for 0 degrees center azimuth.


----------



## busdepot

*Need HDMI Board*

The HDMI board in one of my R972's has failed. Sherwood/Inkel has no more. Does anyone have a working used board they can sell me? Please reply ASAP by email to bd (at) busdepot (dotcom). Thanks.


----------



## islandman2020

*Re: Need HDMI Board*



busdepot said:


> The HDMI board in one of my R972's has failed. Sherwood/Inkel has no more. Does anyone have a working used board they can sell me? Please reply ASAP by email to bd (at) busdepot (dotcom). Thanks.[/QUOTE\]
> 
> busdepot, see if you can find out if other Sherwood's use the same HDMI board as the R-972. I have seen other Sherwood models with HDMI at <99.00 on Ebay. It may be possible to buy another model Sherwood at a reasonable price and have the HDMI boards swapped. Also, be sure to contact [email protected]
> the last official distributor for the R-972.
> 
> Best of Luck!
> 
> 
> Devlon


----------



## typ44q

*Re: Need HDMI Board*



busdepot said:


> The HDMI board in one of my R972's has failed. Sherwood/Inkel has no more. Does anyone have a working used board they can sell me? Please reply ASAP by email to bd (at) busdepot (dotcom). Thanks.


Is there any working HDMI at all? HDMI port 1 is on a different board from the other 3. I have had ports 2-4 fail on me twice but HDMI port 1 still works.


----------



## busdepot

*Sherwood Screws All R972 Owners*

I posted earlier about needing an R972 board. Having done some more research, I have learned some information that is bad news for all R972 owners. *Sherwood has decided to completely discontinue all parts and labor support of the R972, even for those still under warranty.*

I have been going around and around with Sherwood about this for months and have now exhausted all avenues. If you are an R972 owner, here's where you stand...

Sherwood closed its California offices in December. They also closed their service department and fired all their techs. Until a few weeks ago they had provided no evidence of this to customers. Their phone system was still functional, directing callers to service and sales departments that had been abandoned 9 months earlier (with those extensions going to voicemail). After I started digging around, they finally shut down the phone lines, and for a while the website as well. (It now appears to be back up.)

Sherwood is now selling their products through an independent U.S. distributor. While that distributor does have a service department, Etron (a.k.a. Inkel, Sherwood's Korean parent company) has made a policy decision not to service or support R972's in any way whatsoever. This includes units that are still under warranty. Furthermore Inkel has no replacement parts for R972's and no plans to source any more.

I discovered this when the HDMI board failed for the third time in one of my four R972's (this one was out of warranty). I opened the unit and discovered that the last time Sherwood replaced the HDMI board (under warranty) the bench tech had literally glued it to the motherboard with huge gobs of glue, making it impossible for me to remove it (and possibly causing the latest failure, since some of the glue had dripped and melted on the sockets). After failing to reach Sherwood in California for months, I became suspicious that there was "nobody home" and finally reached Gary Graning, who works for Sherwood/Inkel and whose email signature identifies him as the President of Sherwood. I received this emailed reply from him:

*"I am sorry to say that parts for the R-972 are not available. I have checked back and received reporting from our parent company in Korea and several parts manufacturers. There are no parts and no repair available for the R-972 at this time. Our new and current service department technicians do not have facility to service this receiver. We apologize for the unavailability of the parts necessary to service your receiver. Unfortunately repair on this model is now at a dead-stop. The sales and service life of this receiver has run it's course."*

I subsequently called him for clarification. He told me that Inkel had discontinued the R972 because it was a "trouble prone model," They have no more parts for it either in the U.S. or Korea, no plans to source more parts, no intention of training any U.S. techs to service the unit, and will not be supporting it in any way whatsoever, in or out of warranty. I expressed my shock given that as recently as 9 months ago the units were for sale new via Accessories4Less, who had bought them directly from Sherwood America with three year warranties, and that the R972 is *still listed on the SherwoodUSA website* as a current product. It is unreasonable for a manufacturer to sell a product with a 3 year warranty and promote it on their website, and just 9 months later declare it "end of life" and refuse to service or support it in any way. But Mr. Graning reiterated by phone that this is exactly what Inkel has done.

Mr. Graning was nice enough to provide me with service and parts manuals for the unit in PDF form in case I could find someone to fix it locally. However, with no parts supply these are of limited value.

I then contacted American Music & Sound, who is distributing some new Sherwood product in the U.S. They are an independent importer not affiliated with Sherwood. I have to say that they were incredibly responsive and sympathetic, and I would feel very confident about buying other products that they represent. But ultimately they could do little to help me. I sent them my R972 and they managed to unglue my board. Then they spent an entire day weeding through all of the parts that they'd bought from Sherwood's California facility when it closed, hoping to find me a working HDMI board. Alas they found only one semi-working HDMI board (which still has one input out), but they did install that one and are sending the unit back to me. They didn't charge me a cent, even though they spent all day on it and had no responsibility for this mess. I asked them if they could simply repair the HDMI board, since it is the biggest failure item. They looked into it and determined that the chip on the board that generally fails is proprietary and must be programmed by Inkel in Korea. Even if they could get the chip, Inkel would have to program it in Korea and is unwilling to do so. They also confirmed what Mr. Graning had told me - that they will be receiving no parts or assistance from Inkel for the R972 and can do absolutely nothing to support it. Therefore they will not be accepting any R972's for service in or out of warranty. They were extremely apologetic but their hands are tied. Inkel has left their new U.S. distributor "high and dry" just as they have left us R972 owners "high and dry."

I then spoke to Accessories4Less, who sold most of the R972's at retail. He was not aware of what Sherwood/Inkel had done, and was shocked when I told him. He said he has heard of cheap off-brand companies (the kind that sell $9.99 DVD players) pulling a stunt like this, but never a "reputable" brand like Sherwood. He said that of 1000 or so R972's made, he sold 500 of them over the last couple of years. When Sherwood sold them to him they represented them as having 3 year warranties and never remotely indicated that they would not be serviced or supported. Unfortunately, he also has no recourse or ability to resolve the problem either, as he has no units or parts and was not the issuer of the warranty. He suggested that the easiest solution would probably be for Inkel to set up an exchange program for the HDMI boards. A few boards could be sent to Korea for repair (new chip and programming). When a customer needs a board, a repaired one would be provided and his defective board sent back to Korea to be repaired and restocked for the next customer, and so on. I have one spare non-working board, and I gather American Music & Sound has a few, so that could certainly be done if Inkel chose to.

It was on his suggestion that I am posting this information here. He said he thinks the only recourse for R972 owners is either through public pressure on Sherwood/Inkel, or perhaps through legal channels if there happens to be an attorney on the forums interested in pursuing it. Given that these units are "trouble prone" by Sherwood's own admission (and confirmed by failure reports on this forum), it is likely as an R972 owner this will affect you sooner or later - both in terms of the non-repairability of your unit if/when it fails, and its resale value should you choose to sell it.

Now you know as much as I do.


----------



## typ44q

Thanks for that information, I have 1 working HDMI connection on my 971 (HDMI1) and I use a HDMI switch with it and that actually works very well. If that one port goes bad the unit will probably be relegated to 2 channel stereo in my bedroom. :sad:


----------



## sandbagger

I hope sherwood never plans on brining new product into the states as they will never get any money from me after pulling this stunt.


----------



## sdrucker

sandbagger said:


> I hope sherwood never plans on brining new product into the states as they will never get any money from me after pulling this stunt.


Check out the product line on their website - mostly soundbars and low-powered stereo or 5.1 AVRs with basic features. Unless you shop for AVRs at Radio Shack or Overstock.com, which are references that came up on Google, Sherwood is effectively a dead brand.


----------



## tonyvdb

Honestly, this does not surprise me one bit. But given what many of us payed for one ($500 at Accessories4less) cant really complain. Still one of the nicest sounding receivers thanks to Trinnov.


----------



## busdepot

sandbagger said:


> I hope sherwood never plans on brining new product into the states as they will never get any money from me after pulling this stunt.


They are undoubtedly burning bridges. Apparently they have dropped their high-end Newcastle line and figure people buying $150 surround sound receivers won't be picky. Perhaps they're right, if they plan to sell solely on price forever, but it seems shortsighted. The brand has existed in the U.S. for 60 years and now they are squandering that reputation in order to save, what, a few thousand bucks in claims? Five or ten years from now they may want to make another go at it in earnest (or even sell the brand name) and will regret that they destroyed its reputation in order to save pennies. 

What I don't get is why their new U.S. distributor got in bed with them. American Music & Sound is a well regarded company that represents quality brands like Arcam, Canton, Kurzweil, Fostex, Beyer Dynamic, and Wharfdale. What they are doing representing a company that seems to be focused on peddling low-end audio gear and screwing their existing customer base is beyond me. It would seem that all this can do is drag their reputation through the mud by association. Maybe they didn't realize the kind of people they were dealing with, because they seem to be stand-up guys who otherwise represent legitimate companies. 

Decades ago I worked for an outfit called Tech Hifi, which was a large mid to high end audio chain. Back in the 70's they had franchised their name to a Philadelphia operator, thinking they would never expand to that market themselves. The franchisee went bankrupt and closed abruptly; customers who had left deposits, or had personal property in the service department, never saw their money or equipment again. Nearly a decade later, Tech Hifi decided to expand into the Philadelphia market and invested a lot of money opening several locations. They had no idea how long people's memories are. I worked in the corporate stores and we were deluged with calls from customers who were screwed over ten years earlier by the franchisee, telling us in no uncertain terms that over their dead bodies would they ever patronize a Tech Hifi location again. Others who did come in recalled having heard of the previous debacle (or were reminded of it by our competitors) and were distrustful of our return policies and warranties. Three years later Tech Hifi abandoned the market. When you screw people over they tend to have long memories, and they tend to tell people about it.

The better question is, what if anything can or should be done now?


----------



## busdepot

tonyvdb said:


> Honestly, this does not surprise me one bit. But given what many of us payed for one ($500 at Accessories4less) cant really complain. Still one of the nicest sounding receivers thanks to Trinnov.


Sonically, you're absolutely right (thanks to Trinnov, not Sherwood). But if the unit becomes worthless after 1-2 years for lack of parts, $500- $600 is a lot money to pay to "lease" the use of a surround sound receiver (even a good one) for a year or two. Most receivers last a decade or longer and can be repaired if they don't. Typically they are retired for upgrade reasons, not due to chronic failure and lack of parts.

How many people would have paid $500-$600 for this receiver if Sherwood had disclosed at time of purchase that it was a "trouble prone unit" (their words) that was sold strictly as-is and could never be repaired (even for a price) if it broke even a year later? A few, certainly, but not nearly as many. 

This is not a bankruptcy situation where the company has no choice. Inkel is alive and well and even wants to continue profiting off of the U.S. market through new distributors. That is the issue, not whether Trinnov is a great technology (which is unquestionably is). Reputable (or ethical) companies simply don't do this.


----------



## tonyvdb

HDMI boards are very sensitive to static and heat. Sherwood is not the only company that is having issues. Even Onkyo, Denon and Pioneer have had failures. With receivers getting more and more complicated failure is becoming more an issue. I just dont understand why all of these issues happen to other people who own the same receivers I have that are said to be so prone to failure however I never have issues. The Onkyo 805 that I own was said to burst into flames, have HDMI board failures and other issues but it too has never given me an issue in the 7 years Ive had it now.


----------



## typ44q

tonyvdb said:


> HDMI boards are very sensitive to static and heat. Sherwood is not the only company that is having issues. Even Onkyo, Denon and Pioneer have had failures. With receivers getting more and more complicated failure is becoming more an issue. I just dont understand why all of these issues happen to other people who own the same receivers I have that are said to be so prone to failure however I never have issues. The Onkyo 805 that I own was said to burst into flames, have HDMI board failures and other issues but it too has never given me an issue in the 7 years Ive had it now.


Interesting that you mention the Onkyo 805, I have had one of these for 7 years as well and never had an issue with it. No bursting into flames, no display failure, no HDMI issues. I have the first receiver I ever purchased from back in the late 80's and that is still working just fine but I have had the HDMI board on my 972 fail twice...


----------



## JaySinCT

Thanks for the post on the "end of life" statement for the 972.. I recently called as well only to find all of the personnel I had spoken with were now gone.. Jeff left a while ago and Eugene was still a familiar name and a great tech.. I was just getting ready to buy a new "A" stock 972 when I saw this post. As much as I'd dearly love to pick it up, it would become nothing more than a paper weight without any support and something went wrong. I'm not quite sure how they can get away with that legally.. Someone should be responsible for at least the period of the warranty one would think.

I guess I'll remain on my 865, and Sherwood Newcastle HDMI/Component Switcher.. Not as elegant, no Trinnov, but working.. With HDMI boards being problematic, I just can't justify "renting" one only to fall in love with Trinnov and then not have it at some point.. Sad to see a series of great sounding receivers being treated so poorly... :-(

Jay S.


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## JBrax

Wow! Just crazy that a company can get away with business practices like this. I hope they get slapped with a class action lawsuit.


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## islandman2020

Jay I have had mine now for 3 1/2 years. It has performed flawlessly. Luck of the draw I guess? Where did you see the "A" stock for sale. I have been thinking about buying a 2nd R-972.


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## sandbagger

I think most failures have been infant mortality. Most of the time I have found electronics either die shortly after plugging them in <4months or they last a very long time..

Mine has been working fine, it was just time to move on as I was looking for something with Dirac and could not cough up enough for the Datasat ...... that is the only reason mine is up for sale.



islandman2020 said:


> Jay I have had mine now for 3 1/2 years. It has performed flawlessly. Luck of the draw I guess? Where did you see the "A" stock for sale. I have been thinking about buying a 2nd R-972.


----------



## islandman2020

sandbagger said:


> I think most failures have been infant mortality. Most of the time I have found electronics either die shortly after plugging them in <4months or they last a very long time..
> 
> Mine has been working fine, it was just time to move on as I was looking for something with Dirac and could not cough up enough for the Datasat ...... that is the only reason mine is up for sale.


So, how much are you selling it for? Is it a "A", or "refurb"?


----------



## typ44q

sandbagger said:


> I think most failures have been infant mortality. Most of the time I have found electronics either die shortly after plugging them in <4months or they last a very long time..
> 
> Mine has been working fine, it was just time to move on as I was looking for something with Dirac and could not cough up enough for the Datasat ...... that is the only reason mine is up for sale.


I tend to agree with you on that for most electronics but it was certainly not the case for me and my 972. My HDMI board failed after over a year, was repaired and failed again.


----------



## slinkeey

JBrax said:


> Wow! Just crazy that a company can get away with business practices like this. I hope they get slapped with a class action lawsuit.


I wondered the same thing when they kept kicking the can down the road until my warranty was up. I do not own a R-972, but Sherwood pulled some questionable stuff when handling my warranty. 

I payed to have my receiver sent to them 4 times while under warranty, and it is still broke.


----------



## slinkeey

*Re: Sherwood Screws All R972 Owners*



busdepot said:


> I have been going around and around with Sherwood about this for months and have now exhausted all avenues.


Welcome to the club.. 

Thank you for sharing this. People need to be aware of this.


----------



## bguzman

It's a cryin' shame that these receivers have such performance issues when it come to reliability because when they are working and calibrated correctly they produce such a magnificent sound-field that far exceeds any other receiver I have ever had in my HT. Mine will quit working with any digital input in anywhere from two to three weeks. It has happened numerous times with it in all types of environments. Sometimes it can be corrected with a hard rest but eventually it will not accept any input that goes through Trinnov. Then I store it for a while, pull it out of the closet, fall in love with Trinnov all over again, then a few weeks later I'm shoving it back into the closet. :dontknow: :coocoo:


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## tonyvdb

It's too bad some are having issues with the R972. I wish there was a way to understand why a small amount of people have issues where many do not. My R972 has been flawless other than the usual known bugs. I use it almost every day.

Just out of curiosity the individuals who are having issues, where did you get them from?


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## bguzman

I got mine virtually new from a fellow Shakster. He used it for a couple of weeks but could not deal with the quirks. He bought it new when the price first dropped at A4L.


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## tonyvdb

Sorry to hear that, do you have it plugged into a good surg protector?


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## sub_crazy

That is too bad to hear about the problems some are having. I have (2) 972's and have not had any problems besides the usual quirks and 1 is used everyday.

I think I have had 1 of them for close to 3 years already, wow how time flies.


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## bguzman

tonyvdb said:


> Sorry to hear that, do you have it plugged into a good surg protector?


Yes, the same one I have plugged several receivers in with out any problems. :dontknow:


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## Caffinated Zen

Hello Gentlemen -

I have been following this forum and another similar site regarding my issues with the HDMI input boards on my 972. Both failed just before the end of the year. I have spoken to the same people (GG) mentioned above, and while he was kind enough to suggest I speak with a former Sherwood employee / Newcastle guru, we were unable to remedy my issues. I did get the email stating that Sherwood would not be able to honor the warranty due to lack of usable parts.

This is my first post. I am not bashing Sherwood or the receiver. It was great while it worked. My question is, has anyone attempted, or would anyone be interested in pursuing legal recourse? There are specific Federal laws that protect consumers from manufacturers that do not honor their stated or implied warranty.

My receiver worked for almost a year to the day. It was new/open box.

Just throwing this on the wall to see if anything sticks. I am pretty upset at how Sherwood is handling this and will not just "bend over and take it..." 

Just a guy with a bricked receiver....

CZ:R


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## tonyvdb

@CZ, where did you purchase the recever?


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## Caffinated Zen

Not sure if I'm allowed to say. Let's just go with a popular online retailer who sells "Peripheral at a Discount"....

It was a new item, open box. It was sold with a full 3 year manufacturer warranty.

Thanks for the reply.

CZ


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## tonyvdb

Accessories4less? They were the only reliable place to get the R972 other places were sketchy at best. "Open box" always is a concern to me. That's always a red flag as it could be anything.


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## Caffinated Zen

Yes, that would be the place. It was sold with a full mfr warranty, so I wasn't too concerned. In fact, at the time it was the only make/model home theater receiver they were carrying with the three year. That was in fact a major selling point when I purchased.

It had quirks, but performed well for a year and change, then fizzle. A4L was great to work with, but according to this and other forums, quite a few people have had the HDMI failures, and all have gotten a similar song and dance from Sherwood. That is the reason for my OP.

Thanks,

CZ


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## JaySinCT

Was happily enjoying my 7 month old R-972 (new in box from Accessories 4 Less from private seller).. Had finished a game of XBOX One with it, put it in StandBy mode.. Turned it on yesterday.. lights up like usual for the video selection I picked.. but no video.. In fact no video at all.. and ignores any attempt to try to get into setup mode using front panel controls and remote. I've tried everything (including reset, unplug, etc., etc.).. Other odd thing.. There was no odd pops or hisses.. nothing.. didn't lose power during the night.. runs through an AC line filter to clean AC signal..

I'm totally stumped.. even tried running component and removed all HDMI to see if I can get to setup.. Audio is working.. most all the controls work on the remote.. I can still switch video modes and hear the click as it tries to handshake.. 

ANY ideas are appreciated at this point.. I've written StereoJeff (formally from Sherwood Newcastle) but haven't heard back.. Any suggestions are welcome.. Does anyone have the latest firmware (1.47I).. Tempted to try to reload firmware.. :-(

Jay S.


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## wes

Too bad it s discontinued Trinnov is now into the JBL Synthesis


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## Stereojeff

wes said:


> Too bad it s discontinued Trinnov is now into the JBL Synthesis


While the Synthesis processor is based on Trinnov's Altitude, the JBL does not include Trinnov's Optimizer. It will be used with JBL's ARCOS room correction.

Jeff


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## typ44q

I recently built an 18" sub and am using an Behringer iNuke 6000 DSP amp to power the sub. When I run the Trinnov setup it puts the sub at -15dB every time (any lower on the gain and the sub does not show up at all) With it running at -15dB there is just not enough signal for the amp to perform properly and it only is outputting a small fraction of its potential power. 
If I turn Trinnov off and manually set the level in the receiver it works great. BTW I do have the +6dB file installed on the receiver. 
Is there any kind of workaround for this where I can keep Trinnov running and still use my sub without resorting to some kind of signal booster? 

Thanks!


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## tonyvdb

Are you certain that the +6db file has truly taken it did not go the first time I tried. Also what level do you have the sub set at on the sub it's self.


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## typ44q

tonyvdb said:


> Are you certain that the +6db file has truly taken it did not go the first time I tried. Also what level do you have the sub set at on the sub it's self.


Well when installing the +6dB file it gave the "completed" message. I seem to recall a way of checking if it was actually installed but I can not find the post with the instructions.
When running Trinnov I had the level on the sub amp at about the 9'o clock position. That was the lowest position I could use and still have Trinnov find the sub.


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## JaySinCT

All,

Looking for some guidance (Jeff, perhaps you can help). I've got two of these now.. and maybe re-posting some issues in the hopes some "new light" might be shed. My original was working absolutely fine and one day I lost all video and the ability to activate "setup" from either the front panel or the remote. Audio remained fine. Picked up a second one that was supposedly fine.. Well, that one arrived with all video and setup working, but no audio (I mean no audio not even test tones).. So I'm thinking that there has to be one good unit perhaps between these two!!! I've tried all the obvious things like reset, etc.. nothing makes a difference in either one (I did get my money back on the second and got to keep it).

Is there ANYONE out there that still works on these that perhaps could make one good one from the two? Any ideas on the second one without audio? Pulled the covers and even though I've built quite a few PCs in my time, some of these connections and how to detach/re-attach are pretty foreign.. At some point will give up the ghost on these two, but hoping for one last ray of light as I said... I've even still got the R865 I had when I stepped up to the 972!! Replaced the 972 with Denon 4311CI which is a very capable receiver with Audessey (full) but I do miss the Trinnov optimization..

Any and all thoughts are VERY welcome.. Thanks..

Jay S.


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## tonyvdb

Well, I would guess that the first one has a HDMI board failure. The second one not so sure. Have you tried doing a full reset on both receivers?


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## JaySinCT

tonyvdb said:


> Well, I would guess that the first one has a HDMI board failure. The second one not so sure. Have you tried doing a full reset on both receivers?


Yes on the reset (unless there is another unpublished reset I'm not aware of)... I agree about the HDMI board and since the second has video was hoping I could open up the cases and swap the HDMI board over to the first. It's easy enough to get into the case, even remove the screws in back to loosen the board. The issue is the connectors.. There is a bridge connector across from the HDMI board to the board with digital audio inputs that I REALLY didn't want to force.. there are a couple of ribbon/flex cable connections where I can't seem to find an "unlock" mechanism.. I'm not a novice at inside electronics, but there are just some things inside this puppy I'm not familiar with..

Anyone ever swap an HDMI board in these receivers or know of someone who can???

Would appreciate any info (and thanks for the reply Tony).


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## tonyvdb

tonyvdb said:


> *To reset the R-972 to factory settings: *
> Once in Standby Mode, press and hold down the STANDBY & MEMO/ENTER buttons simultaneously for at least 3 seconds. This will reset the unit and it will turn on automatically. If the reset was successful, you should notice that the receiver powers up at 87.5 FM .


This is how you do the reset ^^


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## JaySinCT

tonyvdb said:


> This is how you do the reset ^^



Did that many times.. unfortunately :frown:


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## Builttolast

Hello. I'm new to the forum. Obviously have the 972. Have had the unit for some time, but am now trying to use it in conjunction with my HiFi tube system. Was connecting the front preamp outs to my AR LS8 tube pre amp to the tape or AUX inputs, then routing the MAIN outputs to my Rogue 88 power amp. I want to be able to use a single pair of front end speakers (Goldenear 2's) for my tube HiFi and use the same pair of speakers for my 972 fronts. Obviously not powering both systems simultaneously. 

Can someone offer me a suggestion as I'm not able to get the front surround sound I expected. Thanks.


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## sayguh

Does anyone know if there is any market for a used R972? I'm considering selling mine but can't seem to find a market on ebay or these forums to get an idea of a good cost point. Are people interested in them? What is the going rate? etc.


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## tonyvdb

Given they are now several years old and sold new for $599 I would think asking $200 would be about the best you could ask.


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## sub_crazy

I would try ebay, start an auction at $200 and let the market decide if it is worth more.


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## typ44q

I just got a 4K TV and want to send the video from my Nvidia shield directly to the TV so it can play 4K but of course I want to use the 972 for audio. If I put a splitter on the output of the shield and run one to the 972 will the receiver just ignore the video and just play the audio portion or reject everything?


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## Apollomeo

sayguh said:


> Does anyone know if there is any market for a used R972? I'm considering selling mine but can't seem to find a market on ebay or these forums to get an idea of a good cost point. Are people interested in them? What is the going rate? etc.


Interested if you ended up selling and where? I have one that's been outstanding over the years. I bought a new Marantz and am wondering if I should part with my SN R-972.


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## dragonfly17

Cost me $180 to have mine repaired at a local shop. Had no audio out. Shop found bad caps and a chip on the dsp board and replaced. Running a couple ac infinity fans on top now to keep control of temps and maybe increase longevity.


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## gentlejax

newly aquired mint 972 . sounds great actually. already had the last firmware. few questions 
1. When I pull up the OSD on the tv I cant get anything to move with the remote. like up or down to make selections. I had to go thru setup and change things on the front of the unit instead selecting what is showing on the OSD ...weird...

2. does trinnov work with just a 2.1 system? 2 mains and 1 sub ....I dont have surrounds yet. I have been straight up stereo for a while. This unit sounds as good as some Proceed and Classe Preamps I have tried. its a shame the hardware wasnt up to the task.


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## gentlejax

I still need to know how to load the bass file.....someone!!!


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## Linkage2010

View attachment 175312









Just picked this up and had to take a look inside


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## Linkage2010

R972 Under the hood


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