# Which BFD model?



## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

Hi, I am new to this, I am confused which one I need to eq my sub, DSP1124p, BFQ2496
which one should I get what are the differences?

I plan to get a EMC8000 and 502 mixer also. Does the mixer have RCA output?


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## gperkins_1973 (Aug 25, 2008)

Hi there, 

I have the DSP1100 model and it works perfectly. I EQ'd both my subs with one set of filters and it only took me 15 minutes to get a really good flat response. Perhaps I am lucky!

cheers

Graham


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Welcome to the Forum, Jeremy!

The 1124 is cheaper. There’s no good reason to get the 2496, IMO.




> I plan to get a EMC8000 and 502 mixer also. Does the mixer have RCA output?


No, it doesn’t have RCA outputs. You’ll have to use some adapters.

Regards,
Wayne


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

Thanks, so the 3 things I have listed, DSP1124, EMC8000, 502 mixer is pretty much all I need?

I don't know how to use the midi port. Is it easy to adjust manually on the 1124?


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

PoorSignal said:


> Thanks, so the 3 things I have listed, DSP1124, EMC8000, 502 mixer is pretty much all I need?


 Cables. Also, do you have a sound card that's compatible with both REW and your computer? A SPL meter is nice to have, too...




> I don't know how to use the midi port. Is it easy to adjust manually on the 1124?


It's not hard to get the hang of it. The midi adapter is merely going to jack up the "price of admission."

Regards,
Wayne


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

Yes, I have been using my computer in the same room with a SB audigy 2 sound card, doesn't look like it supports midi output anyway.. 
I have been running REW with an RS SPL meter now and I am wondering is the EMC mic worth the investment? I can run the REW 10 times and get pretty much the same graph.. so it is consistent but that says nothing about accuracy.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

The ECM is worthwhile only if you're intested in taking accurate full range measurements. If you're only interested in your subwoofer's response, the RS meter is all you need.

Regards,
Wayne


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

Thank you Wayne, I am not sure what I want yet, maybe want to play with more wall treatment later.

What's the difference between 802 and 502 mixer? (reading the BFD guide it says get 802)

Just found I need XLR cable between mixer and Mic.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

PoorSignal said:


> What's the difference between 802 and 502 mixer? (reading the BFD guide it says get 802)


For your purposes, there is no difference between the two. When the Guide was written, the 502 didn't have phantom power, so that's why we recommended the 802. Phantom power has now been added to the 502, making it a more economical option.

Regards,
Wayne


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

If I want to try Midi upload, do you know if this might work? Cheap enough to try it out..

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0017H4EBG/ref=s9_simh_gw_p23_t2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0
DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0E5RCVQ4M9KHHSQWDJ9Z&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846

Is there a list of USB adapters people have had success with.

Thanks for your help so far!


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## gperkins_1973 (Aug 25, 2008)

The midi connection on my DSP1100 wouldn't work so I worked out to manually input the filters and it was easy peasy. Literally took 5 minutes tops.

cheers

Graham


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

HIya guys... i have similar question as the OP so instead of setting a new thread i figured id ask here.

I have rew setup and works great i have been fidling with rew and using it to set the peq on my sub... i find the sub has a few more peaks for that obviously i need an eq.

I have been reading here and i find the best cheapest solution is to get the DSP1124P I have locally lot of stock on these so thats not a problem.

My questions are:

1 - As everyone recommends DSP1124P as the easiest and cheapest solution... for DSP1124P and rew obviously i'll enter the information manually on the eq... I have a rythmik sub would the eq go lower than 20hz/10hz or its limited to 20hz.

2 - I have a radioshack spl meter that i use wiht rew ... Do i need anything else... i have seen people buying mics and preamps to use with their setup do i need those?

thanks in advance... any opininons/suggestions are welcome.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

You don't need a separate mic unless you want very accurate results, or want to measure over 3kHz. Without the mic, you don't need the preamp.


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

glaufman said:


> You don't need a separate mic unless you want very accurate results, or want to measure over 3kHz. Without the mic, you don't need the preamp.


thank you for the quick response.

So you think the DSP1124P is good enough for a sub eq.. i will probably order a few units for the different rooms... you think the DSP1124P can dig below 20hz... from what i have read it was mentioned it goes from 20-90hz in 1/60 increments.


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## ToBeFrank (Feb 27, 2010)

porksoda said:


> 1 - As everyone recommends DSP1124P as the easiest and cheapest solution... for DSP1124P and rew obviously i'll enter the information manually on the eq...


If you get one with firmware 1.4, you don't have to enter it manually. The MIDI functionality with REW works fantastic. I bought the M-Audio Uno for less than $40 to use as my MIDI interface.



> 2 - I have a radioshack spl meter that i use wiht rew ...


That's all I use.



porksoda said:


> So you think the DSP1124P is good enough for a sub eq.. i will probably order a few units for the different rooms... you think the DSP1124P can dig below 20hz... from what i have read it was mentioned it goes from 20-90hz in 1/60 increments.


It's working great for my sub. You can center a filter down to 20Hz so the filter will affect less than 20Hz. I don't believe there is a restriction to 90Hz. It's just for the sub most people don't place filters above the crossover point.


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

I bought mine now and it's working good for EQ but it doesn't have a subsonic filter like the SMS-1 so I need to spend almost $100 for a subsonic.

The main reason I didn't get the SMS-1 is I heard there is a distortion to the sound, probably not a big deal at all but more so than the DSP1124P


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

ToBeFrank said:


> If you get one with firmware 1.4, you don't have to enter it manually. The MIDI functionality with REW works fantastic. I bought the M-Audio Uno for less than $40 to use as my MIDI interface.
> 
> That's all I use.
> 
> It's working great for my sub. You can center a filter down to 20Hz so the filter will affect less than 20Hz. I don't believe there is a restriction to 90Hz. It's just for the sub most people don't place filters above the crossover point.


thanks will for sure call around and perhaps order the unit tomorrow.




PoorSignal said:


> I bought mine now and it's working good for EQ but it doesn't have a subsonic filter like the SMS-1 so I need to spend almost $100 for a subsonic.
> 
> The main reason I didn't get the SMS-1 is I heard there is a distortion to the sound, probably not a big deal at all but more so than the DSP1124P


what would a "subsonic filter" accomplish... ?

-----

Also what do you guys use for connection xlr or trs? I probably use the TRS to rca adapter... is that what is recommended or xlr to rca?


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

if you are NOT using a DIY sub probably not an issue, your sub maker might have that in the onboard amp already.. can't be sure though.

the subsonic is to cut out the lowest frequencies so the DIY sub does not go over it's excursion.


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

another question on the bfd's i have is...

I have been reading around on different eq's for sub the only thing that stood out was that the antimode does time domain adjustments as well.

Any of you care to comment on how important it is and maybe perhaps i should be looking into the antimode?

bfd is cheap and i can get it and i have rew setup already and i dont mind tinkering but if the antimode will do what i will do manually and also change other aspects maybe i should look into it?


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

I don't know too much about the Antimode but it's all auto and you have no control over your filters, you can only run REW to see what it made it sound like.

With a BFD and midi adapter you can probably EQ real quick, BTW I bought from Amazon and the Midi Adapter for $5 from an amazon vendor and it worked, I guess that has the newest firmware.


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

thanks.

you got a link for your rew before and after?

I am actually doing on rew applying filters as if it were on the dsp... and it does a pretty decent job but not a perfect smooth curve but pretty good job removing peaks and dips.

This original sweep was with sub's peq applied i had a big peak at 46hz or so which i lowered with the sub's peq.


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

Yes here is the response 2 mics Radio Shack (Blue) and ECM8000 (Red)
no EQ









here is DSP1124 5 filters to get the response I want.
Note I EQ without the L R speakers and EQ just the sub first then add the L R and make other tweaks if needed. The graph is final with L R response


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

I would just apply the DSP filter yourself manually.. as mentioned just turn off L R and EQ just the sub.

The nice thing about the DSP1124 and REW together is the prediction is about 98% accurate. So it will be what your results are if you get the BFD


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

PoorSignal said:


> I would just apply the DSP filter yourself manually.. as mentioned just turn off L R and EQ just the sub.
> 
> The nice thing about the DSP1124 and REW together is the prediction is about 98% accurate. So it will be what your results are if you get the BFD


i guess my room has more issues... in your second graph... the target is flat from 0-30hz then it slopes down... what profile is that?


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

porksoda said:


> i guess my room has more issues... in your second graph... the target is flat from 0-30hz then it slopes down... what profile is that?


Yes I have a small room and the woofer not too far.
my target is called a hard knee house curve, you can do some searching to decide if it is right for you. It puts alot of demand on the sub though and mine is not handling it quite well, so I am building a new sub 18" with 5 times more power.


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

PoorSignal said:


> Yes I have a small room and the woofer not too far.
> my target is called a hard knee house curve, you can do some searching to decide if it is right for you. It puts alot of demand on the sub though and mine is not handling it quite well, so I am building a new sub 18" with 5 times more power.


ah will look into it. I have a rythmik f12. my room is square and big 27x27 has an opening to hallway and one side is all windows and also has a door to another room.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

porksoda said:


> I have been reading around on different eq's for sub the only thing that stood out was that the antimode does time domain adjustments as well.
> 
> Any of you care to comment on how important it is and maybe perhaps i should be looking into the antimode?


Any equalizer has a “time domain” effect because slight delays in the circuitry is what makes the filters alter frequency response. The nice thing about the Antimode is that it’s fully automatic and in that respect easy to operate. The thing I don’t care for with so-called “time domain” equalizing is that it tames any peaks in response, but will not boost any depressions. So depending on your room, you still might end up with holes in response. As Jeremy noted, you can’t adjust the Antimode’s filters.

Regards,
Wayne


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Any equalizer has a “time domain” effect because slight delays in the circuitry is what makes the filters alter frequency response. The nice thing about the Antimode is that it’s fully automatic and in that respect easy to operate. The thing I don’t care for with so-called “time domain” equalizing is that it tames any peaks in response, but will not boost any depressions. So depending on your room, you still might end up with holes in response. As Jeremy noted, you can’t adjust the Antimode’s filters.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


thanks wayne...

between my last post and now i have been reading your post on house curves and the guide on bfd guide... there is a lot of solid info here and i think i am getting to grips with more and more and as you can see with my first attempt above i added like 10 or so filters to get the curve right...i see the error in that and probably going to do more reading.. perhaps head downtown and get bfd as well.

I think i understand on what you just said about antimode... I do have a dip or two and i think i will for sure need to boost it so i think i will stick to the dsp/rew/rs spl way of adjusting it. 

I have no problem approaching the "manual" method of doing things and having various presets does ease things... 

I think i am going to as they say it bite the bullet on the bfd as it is available locally.


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

When you turn off the main speakers you may find the graph will become different, and you can tweak the phase and see (tweaking the phase won't matter for sub alone, only when integrated), this is something you can do without getting equalizer.. I just have REW before I ran all this stuff and turns out switching my phase resulted in a better graph.


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

PoorSignal said:


> When you turn off the main speakers you may find the graph will become different, and you can tweak the phase and see (tweaking the phase won't matter for sub alone, only when integrated), this is something you can do without getting equalizer.. I just have REW before I ran all this stuff and turns out switching my phase resulted in a better graph.


Funny you say this... i did just that today... i did a few more sweeps after that... bass response is much better now here are my graphs... what you guys think?

unsmoothed











1/6 smoothing


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## PoorSignal (Jul 23, 2009)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Any equalizer has a “time domain” effect because slight delays in the circuitry is what makes the filters alter frequency response. The nice thing about the Antimode is that it’s fully automatic and in that respect easy to operate. The thing I don’t care for with so-called “time domain” equalizing is that it tames any peaks in response, but will not boost any depressions. So depending on your room, you still might end up with holes in response. As Jeremy noted, you can’t adjust the Antimode’s filters.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne



Wayne, I was wondering if you know why people say SMS-1 is inferior to using REW because it does not correct for time domain.. are they saying REW has waterfall graph features? For the regular sweep of frequency x loudness I think it should be the same kind of graph between the REW and SMS-1.

If it was just waterfall graph that REW provides, most of the time we cannot correct them anyway beside moving subs around or room treatment?


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Adding any EQ can indeed change the ringing from modes, which can be seen on the waterfall. It should be noted that the specific change is only valid where the mic is, at other places the change will be different. Room treatment on the other hand can improve response over much wider areas.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Tame that peak @ 25 Hz and you'll be looking good. :T

Regards,
Wayne


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Tame that peak @ 25 Hz and you'll be looking good. :T
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


yes sir!

1 - bfd
2 - higher xover
3 - tame all peaks boost all dips
4 - house curves...

(my to do... in that order)


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## cconklin1 (Mar 29, 2010)

Wow. Great first thread for me. I learned a lot in just four pages. I am a longtime member of avs but never got around to joining here. I joined because a friend told me there was a weallth of info on eqing my subwoofers here versus avs and it looks like he was right. Off to order my behringer and external soundcard!
Thanks!


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

cconklin1 said:


> Wow. Great first thread for me. I learned a lot in just four pages. I am a longtime member of avs but never got around to joining here. I joined because a friend told me there was a weallth of info on eqing my subwoofers here versus avs and it looks like he was right. Off to order my behringer and external soundcard!
> Thanks!


heh... yes and people here are a bit more... "adult" and "not angry".

Which sub do you have?


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## cconklin1 (Mar 29, 2010)

right now I have a couple of sunfire subs but have been playing with an ed a2-300 and a few others. I tend to get into "phases" where I try a bunch of blu ray players, then a bunch of receivers, then some subs, then repeat process. This is a big hobby for me and I swap gear wayyyyyyyy more than any rational person should. The reason I popped over here is that this is something that will benefit me forever, (learning to eq my system), and once I get over the initial learning curve, it should get even easier.
As far as people getting "angry" at avs, you should head over to the emotiva forum!
To be fair. I do have my share of "moments" but they are usually few and far in between!


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Welcome to the Forum, cconklin!




cconklin1 said:


> Off to order my behringer and external soundcard!
> Thanks!


Be sure and Google for some reviews for any sound card you're considering, to see if there are any reported issues using it with your operating system. This is the issue that bogs down and frustrates new REW users more than anything else.

Regards,
Wayne


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## cconklin1 (Mar 29, 2010)

Thanks Wayne.
I have two laptops one with windows 7 and one with xp (a netbook) Hopefully I will not run into too many issues...
Best,
Chris


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

cconklin1 said:


> As far as people getting "angry" at avs, you should head over to the emotiva forum!
> To be fair. I do have my share of "moments" but they are usually few and far in between!


We take pride in the fact that we've banned some of the biggest names in the home theater forums, who came over here and wouldn't play nice! 

Regards,
Wayne


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## porksoda (Feb 25, 2010)

cconklin1 said:


> Thanks Wayne.
> I have two laptops one with windows 7 and one with xp (a netbook) Hopefully I will not run into too many issues...
> Best,
> Chris


I think its recommended to use input in instead of mic in... my laptop has only mic in so i ended up using a desktop machine with xp on it and i popped in an old audigy card in it.

You should read over the guide to see if you have all the hardware but usually you need line in and line out and you shoudl be good.


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## glaufman (Nov 25, 2007)

Welcome to the Shack Conlin!


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