# Will nanoAVR improve Audissey EQXT results considerably?



## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Hello everyone, I have a 7.1 system with 4 SW one in each corner, with DIY Acoustic treatments on walls and corners. I ran Audissey EQ XT set up in my HT at my LP only and also at different locations, and while the sound is better after running it, REW shows there are some peaks at around 30 and 70 Hz I want to get rid off because these make my room boomy especially in the back row when watching a movie. Does anyone know if nanoAVR or any other miniDSP will do anything to improve what AEQXT has already produced?
Thanks!


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

R2RO said:


> Hello everyone, I have a 7.1 system with 4 SW one in each corner, with DIY Acoustic treatments on walls and corners. I ran Audissey EQ XT set up in my HT at my LP only and also at different locations, and while the sound is better after running it, REW shows there are some peaks at around 30 and 70 Hz I want to get rid off because these make my room boomy especially in the back row when watching a movie. Does anyone know if nanoAVR or any other miniDSP will do anything to improve what AEQXT has already produced?
> Thanks!


Some Audyssey users have found it worthwhile to "pre-EQ" one or two of their worst room resonances with a parametric EQ device like those from miniDSP or elsewhere. This makes the job easier for Audyssey and can give a smoother result. Read the Audyssey section of THIS REVIEW for some detail.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

R2RO said:


> Hello everyone, I have a 7.1 system with 4 SW one in each corner, with DIY Acoustic treatments on walls and corners. I ran Audissey EQ XT set up in my HT at my LP only and also at different locations, and while the sound is better after running it, REW shows there are some peaks at around 30 and 70 Hz I want to get rid off because these make my room boomy especially in the back row when watching a movie. Does anyone know if nanoAVR or any other miniDSP will do anything to improve what AEQXT has already produced?
> Thanks!


I realize there are those who advocate a single position Audyssey cal, but that's not recommended by the developers. If you want to "weight" Audyssey towards a single seat, try doing 8 points clustered in a virtual bubble around that position and give Audyssey something more to chew on. Move the mic around at least a foot, then see what you get. Measurements that differ spatially are important, and more is better. 

Any linear FFT based measurement has most of its data points above 1KHz, so to gain enough resolution at low frequencies you need a lot of points through out the band. The problem with a single measurement position is that it doesn't represent the general sound of the system well, even though it's detailed. If you take multiple measurements over a space and simply average them, you actually reduce resolution, not improve it, though the graphs become easier to look at. 

Audyssey came up with a way to reduce the amount of collected data while retaining required resolution. The idea of fuzzy clustering is to find common characteristics between measurements, and ignore the radically odd ones, thus improving the overall resolution, particularly at the low end. 

More *here*, and *here*.

Other EQ systems that involve differing measurement techniques, and even manual adjustment input can perhaps produces flatter curves under specific circumstances, but they may or may not actually sound better that way. There is often a problem trying to verify one technique with another. I've found that using REW to attempt to verify Audyssey isn't reliable, and only useful generally. Fuzzmeasure seems to be much more similar to Audyssey, and seems to correlate well, though it's difficult to get the mic in exactly the same positions in space.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

AudiocRaver said:


> Some Audyssey users have found it worthwhile to "pre-EQ" one or two of their worst room resonances with a parametric EQ device like those from miniDSP or elsewhere. This makes the job easier for Audyssey and can give a smoother result. Read the Audyssey section of THIS REVIEW for some detail.


Agreed, this can work. Two cautions: any time EQ requires a gain filter you have to be cautious about headroom in the system. For that reason, Audyssey limits the gain in any filter to 9dB. If it's doing that, and you go in with another device and add a few more dB of gain, you could be into a power amp headroom issue you'll never see on the final FR graph. The other caution is that there are differences in measurement methods, using REW to verify Audyssey isn't always accurate and reliable. To see this, you need the Audyssey Pro software and kit, which presents before/after graphs (though unscaled...grrr!), in which you'll see very different results that you get with REW. It depends on what you trust.

Let me say right here that I don't want to get into another REW/Audyssey debate, so anyone is free to disagree and I'm not going to argue. I believe there's much more going on in Audyssey's method of handling FFT data, and it has a ton of research behind it. REW is a fine tool, and there's nothing wrong with it other than how it's used by the operator. But I've never seen the two agree consistently, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

I used to use an external processor with Audyssey to work a bit more on the LFE, but since I now run XT32 with SubEQ, the only LFE processing I now need and use is an excursion limiter. This version of Audyssey nailed it for both subs.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

gazoink said:


> Agreed... any time EQ requires a gain filter you have to be cautious about headroom in the system. For that reason, Audyssey limits the gain in any filter to 9dB. If it's doing that, and you go in with another device and add a few more dB of gain, you could be into a power amp headroom issue you'll never see on the final FR graph.


Thanks for the additional detail. I should have included that the technique is best used to reduce large low-frequency peaks before running Audyssey.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

AudiocRaver said:


> Some Audyssey users have found it worthwhile to "pre-EQ" one or two of their worst room resonances with a parametric EQ device like those from miniDSP or elsewhere. This makes the job easier for Audyssey and can give a smoother result. Read the Audyssey section of THIS REVIEW for some detail.


Thanks for the response AudiocRaver, an for the link too, i will check it out!


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Gazoink,
Thanks for the detailed response. I tried to reply to your post but I was caught by the spam filter, so I will just reply here, I had never heard about or though about doing the cluster measurements, I will do that and get back with any comments. 
Also, the only way I have run REW is via UAC222/RS DSPL connected to the main subwoofers in front of the room (balanced XLR). do you know if I can run REW via the processor without an EQ and measure response from all 4 subs in the room? If so, I would appreciate any guidance on how to connect.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

gazoink said:


> Agreed, this can work. Two cautions: any time EQ requires a gain filter you have to be cautious about headroom in the system. For that reason, Audyssey limits the gain in any filter to 9dB. If it's doing that, and you go in with another device and add a few more dB of gain, you could be into a power amp headroom issue you'll never see on the final FR graph. The other caution is that there are differences in measurement methods, using REW to verify Audyssey isn't always accurate and reliable. To see this, you need the Audyssey Pro software and kit, which presents before/after graphs (though unscaled...grrr!), in which you'll see very different results that you get with REW. It depends on what you trust. Let me say right here that I don't want to get into another REW/Audyssey debate, so anyone is free to disagree and I'm not going to argue. I believe there's much more going on in Audyssey's method of handling FFT data, and it has a ton of research behind it. REW is a fine tool, and there's nothing wrong with it other than how it's used by the operator. But I've never seen the two agree consistently, sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I used to use an external processor with Audyssey to work a bit more on the LFE, but since I now run XT32 with SubEQ, the only LFE processing I now need and use is an excursion limiter. This version of Audyssey nailed it for both subs.


what I was doing was the other way around, using the filter results from REW and update on Audissey's via manual EQ, unfortunately, the graph only allows to adjust 63hz and above, so my LF peaks will remain, plus now that you cautioned me on the headroom issues, it makes me think I may have gone beyond its limit , because after I adjusted the gain at 63hz by a few db's, room sounded awful.


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

R2RO said:


> Gazoink,
> Thanks for the detailed response. I tried to reply to your post but I was caught by the spam filter, so I will just reply here, I had never heard about or though about doing the cluster measurements, I will do that and get back with any comments.


When you run Audyssey, the OSD tells you to move the mic to between 6 or 8 possible positions. Those are usually supposed to be at ear level in each seat. You can "weight" the calibration to one or two seats by making measurements in that bubble concept. Audyssey needs multiple measurements over a space to work well.


R2RO said:


> Also, the only way I have run REW is via UAC222/RS DSPL connected to the main subwoofers in front of the room (balanced XLR). do you know if I can run REW via the processor without an EQ and measure response from all 4 subs in the room? If so, I would appreciate any guidance on how to connect.


So you have 4 subs. You have a USC222 feeding two, but not the others? 

Calibrating 4 subs is not trivial. Technically, you should get them to level-match at the LP, then calibrate them all with a single EQ, or, preferred, EQ and cal each one separately then integrate them together. It's not a small task!


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

R2RO said:


> what I was doing was the other way around, using the filter results from REW and update on Audissey's via manual EQ, unfortunately, the graph only allows to adjust 63hz and above, so my LF peaks will remain, plus now that you cautioned me on the headroom issues, it makes me think I may have gone beyond its limit , because after I adjusted the gain at 63hz by a few db's, room sounded awful.


What graph are we talking about?


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

gazoink said:


> What graph are we talking about?


i meant to say the Manual Parametric EQ, not the graph, sorry, I was looking at my REW graph when I wrote that, but I will post my graph as soon as I reach my 5 posts since I just signed up here.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

gazoink said:


> When you run Audyssey, the OSD tells you to move the mic to between 6 or 8 possible positions. Those are usually supposed to be at ear level in each seat. You can "weight" the calibration to one or two seats by making measurements in that bubble concept. Audyssey needs multiple measurements over a space to work well. So you have 4 subs. You have a USC222 feeding two, but not the others? Calibrating 4 subs is not trivial. Technically, you should get them to level-match at the LP, then calibrate them all with a single EQ, or, preferred, EQ and cal each one separately then integrate them together. It's not a small task!


yeah, sounds like I am going to have to start working on that, one by one and then integrate, but it sounds like I will ultimately have to go the nanoAVR route to EQ all four, which actually I wonder if nanoAVr or any other will do multi sub parametric EQ...


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

R2RO said:


> yeah, sounds like I am going to have to start working on that, one by one and then integrate, but it sounds like I will ultimately have to go the nanoAVR route to EQ all four, which actually I wonder if nanoAVr or any other will do multi sub parametric EQ...


I am reviewing the nanoAVR right now. The nanoAVR has 8 in and 8 out, plus a ninth internal channel for the sub/lfe channel processing, and any-to-any routing/mixing capability, but the only way to get signal in or out is via HDMI. You would have to dedicate the nanoAVR to sub processing running on a separate HDMI channel so 4 of its regular outputs could be used for sub signals, plus follow it with a dedicated AVR or preamp with preamp outputs that could feed subs... Kinda messy. The internals are all there, not the i/o you would want.

The 2x4 with the right plugin looks like a better fit.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

AudiocRaver said:


> I am reviewing the nanoAVR right now. The nanoAVR has 8 in and 8 out, plus a ninth internal channel for the sub/lfe channel processing, and any-to-any routing/mixing capability, but the only way to get signal in or out is via HDMI. You would have to dedicate the nanoAVR to sub processing running on a separate HDMI channel so 4 of its regular outputs could be used for sub signals, plus follow it with a dedicated AVR or preamp with preamp outputs that could feed subs... Kinda messy. The internals are all there, not the i/o you would want. The 2x4 with the right plugin looks like a better fit.


thanks for the feedback AudiocRaver, it looks like my best option is as you mentioned above.

Let me tell you a bit about my subwoofer set up :
SW1: HP+ Master plus Slave in front wall, and 
SW2: In-wall coax splits at the end of back wall to feed two 10" subs, one on each back corner. 
My front subs, have XLR connectors, my rear subs only have RCA (in-wall via coax, split in the back to feed each sub), 
AV processor has both XLR and RCA options for SW1 and SW2 outputs.

So my first REW sweeps i connected the audio interface directly to front master SW, which fed the slave, so it only tested front subs. I have not run REW via AVR because i had no idea how to connect so that I test fir all 4 subs, but looks like now I know. I would prefer to test with only balanced signals if it makes a tangible difference. Based on this, which platform option do you recommend? FYI, I have asked this to miniDSP directly, but it will probably take a couple of days to hear back, so do you know if there is a 2x4 miniDSP for balanced/XLR connections?
Thanks again!


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

R2RO said:


> thanks for the feedback AudiocRaver, it looks like my best option is as you mentioned above.
> 
> Let me tell you a bit about my subwoofer set up :
> SW1: HP+ Master plus Slave in front wall, and
> ...


Looks like their Balanced 2x4 with their 4-Way Advanced plugin would do what you need. The balanced connections are via terminal blocks, and there is a sensitivity jumper for proper voltage levels,


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

gazoink said:


> Calibrating 4 subs is not trivial. Technically, you should get them to level-match at the LP, then calibrate them all with a single EQ, or, preferred, EQ and cal each one separately then integrate them together. It's not a small task!


The experiences of numerous Forum members here suggests that the best way to EQ multiple subs is to level match and then equalize them all as a single entity, with a single set of filters. After all, combined output is all you hear from multiple subs, you don’t localize any of them so it doesn’t make any sense to equalize them separately. Typically the results of EQing each sub independently is that you get each one with an ideal curve, but then measuring them all together gets response that’s totally wacked. 

What you might do is measure each independently to see of any of them has a gross issue (e.g. one has a huge peak that the others don’t) and correct that separately, but you probably shouldn't go much beyond that with individual EQ.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## gazoink (Apr 17, 2013)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> The experiences of numerous Forum members here suggests that the best way to EQ multiple subs is to level match and then equalize them all as a single entity, with a single set of filters. After all, combined output is all you hear from multiple subs, you don’t localize any of them so it doesn’t make any sense to equalize them separately. Typically the results of EQing each sub independently is that you get each one with an ideal curve, but then measuring them all together gets response that’s totally wacked.


Unless an individual sub's response is wacked already, at which time you need EQ on an individual basis.


Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> What you might do is measure each independently to see of any of them has a gross issue (e.g. one has a huge peak that the others don’t) and correct that separately, but you probably shouldn't go much beyond that with individual EQ.
> 
> Regards,
> Wayne


Yeah, that's what I meant.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Thank you guys, miniDSP 2x4 on order with 4 way mini plug. Hopefully it will get here soon. I will be posting any results ....or inquiries ...once I start the quest for the subwoofer best integration to my system and have something to share.


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

AudiocRaver said:


> Looks like their Balanced 2x4 with their 4-Way Advanced plugin would do what you need. The balanced connections are via terminal blocks, and there is a sensitivity jumper for proper voltage levels,


So R2RO directed me here for an answer to my question I posted in another thread a few days ago. I am looking to get the miniDSP 2x4 box to EQ multiple subs (up to four subs). I want to have independent gain, phase (distance) and EQ bands for each sub. It is my understanding that more than one of the plugins will do it, but it sounds like the 4 way advanced will do the job, correct? Can you apply EQ filters to each output individually, and also to the entire set as a single unit? It looks like you can, based on what I read over at their website. I will be doing two subs initially, but would like to be able to expand to four. Thanks.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

bkeeler10 said:


> So R2RO directed me here for an answer to my question I posted in another thread a few days ago. I am looking to get the miniDSP 2x4 box to EQ multiple subs (up to four subs). I want to have independent gain, phase (distance) and EQ bands for each sub. It is my understanding that more than one of the plugins will do it, but it sounds like the 4 way advanced will do the job, correct? Can you apply EQ filters to each output individually, and also to the entire set as a single unit? It looks like you can, based on what I read over at their website. I will be doing two subs initially, but would like to be able to expand to four. Thanks.


 don't know if you have looked at this article from the miniDSP community, but I skimmed through it the other day, not read it in detail yet, but the plug in exploration section may have some info that can be useful to anyone trying to connect multiple subwoofers in addition to the great guidance from HTS community, which in my opinion is priceless...
http://www.minidsp.com/support/community-powered-tutorials/201-dual-sub-integration


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

bkeeler10 said:


> So R2RO directed me here for an answer to my question I posted in another thread a few days ago. I am looking to get the miniDSP 2x4 box to EQ multiple subs (up to four subs). I want to have independent gain, phase (distance) and EQ bands for each sub. It is my understanding that more than one of the plugins will do it, but it sounds like the 4 way advanced will do the job, correct? Can you apply EQ filters to each output individually, and also to the entire set as a single unit? It looks like you can, based on what I read over at their website. I will be doing two subs initially, but would like to be able to expand to four. Thanks.


Yes, the Advanced 4-way plugin will do what you are looking for. Here is the Datasheet. Looks like you will have 6-band PEQ that covers all 4 outputs plus separate 6-band PEQ for each of the outputs. The crossovers would not be used, they are activated by enabling HP and LP filters for each of the 4 channels where they split and can simply be left not activated in the other plugins I have worked with. Then each output has separate phase, gain, and delay settings available. Should do the job.


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Thanks guys. Will be ordering the 2x4 with the 4 way advanced plugin today. It looks like the tutorial used the two way advanced plugin, but the end result should be the same.


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Just received the 2x4 today. Considering I ordered it on Thursday, and yesterday was a holiday, and it came from Hong Kong, that's pretty fast!

I will be hooking it up to my three-sub system at home and playing with it for this week. Then I'm hauling it off to CEDIA to EQ subs in a sound room there. I will report back with results/questions.


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Well, I've had a chance to play with the 2x4. What a cool little device, and a fantastic, easy-to-use, intuitive interface. It was very obvious where to go and what to do - I didn't have to look at a manual or anything.

My sub setup consists of two Phase Technology 12" subs with passive radiators (part of their dARTS system) and an SVS PB2000 sub (which I was fortunate enough to win here at HTS a few months ago :clap The two Phase Tech subs are at the front wall of the room, and their response rolls off quickly below about 28 Hz. The SVS is at the back of the room and is rated to be -3 dB at 17 Hz. I had played around with settings and volume levels to achieve a decent response that I thought Audyssey MultEQ XT Pro would smooth out a bit for me. Unfortunately, it didn't really do much. The first graph is the response post-Audyssey. The crossover between subs and mains is 80 Hz.

So I left MultEQ on and went to work with the miniDSP, with the goal of smoothing the response and creating a house curve of sorts (did some reading on the work done by Wayne Pflughaupt). On the set of three subs, I created a broad filter centered at 33 Hz to pull down the room-induced peak there, and tried to fix the narrow hole at 75 Hz with a few dB of boost. Then, since the 33 Hz filter had some effect on the low 20s Hz response, I boosted output in that region on the SVS sub's output only. I then raised the subwoofer trim level on my pre-pro by about 6 dB, which further helped smooth the area centered at 75 Hz and brought the sub's output back in line with that of the mains.. The second graph is the result of those modifications.

The third graph shows both responses overlaid.

After all that, I didn't have much time last night to listen to a lot, but I did listen to some things and I have to say it sounds pretty good. Before, I was having to reduce my sub trim for many things because the lower frequencies were overbearing. That of course made other bass frequencies sound weak. But that is no longer the case. That is the biggest difference I've noticed so far, although I think the bass is smoother and more even overall as well.

So what do y'all think? I suppose I could post this over in the REW forum as well, which I may do.

Edit: All graphs are unsmoothed.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

Nice work!


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## ajinfla (May 10, 2009)

Hi Bryan,

Couple thoughts. Most all of this is based on individual (i.e. you) preferences and generalities.
The so called "house curve" you refer to is generally something like this:

















There is around a 10db +/- drop in pressure, at the mic, at the LP, from bottom to top (20 Hz-20 KHz +/-).
You appear to have around 10db rise around 20 Hz, relative to 200 Hz +/-. To me, personally, that would sound a bit bass heavy, especially with music. Perhaps this is strictly for HT and not as noticeable, or our preferences vary.
If it is for multi-seat HT, you may want to take a few measurements at different locations.
Also, I would not have tried to fill that 75 Hz energy storage pressure point notch with boost. I won't drag you off the deep end with volume velocities and binaural perception, but suffice to say, a single point pressure mic measurement in a soundfield is not entirely representative of what 2 ears/brain hears.
However, if it sounds better to you that way, by all means...

cheers


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Thanks AJ for your input. I had limited time to do this, as I had to bring it to the CEDIA tradeshow this week. I agree that the bass was a bit too prominent. I wish I had more time to experiment with it. The 2x4 actually belongs to my company, and I suppose I will have to get me one in the near future.

I boosted the 75 Hz area maybe 2 dB, and the rest of that hole was filled in by raising the sub trim level (which needed to be done to compensate for the loss of energy in the 25-40 Hz region). There's a good chance it was induced by less-than-ideal phase between mains and subs (the crossover between them is 80 Hz). Again, lack of time made for a not-quite-there result.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Hey there! I am back after being absent for a few months.... Work....and other responsibilities.....in any case I am glad to know things worked out for bkeeler ?, and hope you all are having a great long weekend. I'm trying to get back on track, but found out I forgot several of the recommendations and theory I had reviewed so I was hoping you could help me get going with my 4 SW set up after I received my 2x4 miniDSP with 4 way plugin..oh and I ended up getting the UMIK-1 as well. I guess just to remind you, I had run REW with UC22 Behringer and RadioShack mic before, obtained some graphs with peaks @ 30 &70hz and [email protected] 40h, which are the cause of boominess in the back of my room even after Audissey EQXT.
Bkeeler: If you could shed some light as to how I need to connect my 2x4 to the pre-amp, laptop, and mic based on my 4SW set up to get myself started to run measurements to level match all 4 subs, and finally integrate them to flatten the curve, I would appreciate it.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

So I tried to run some measurements with the MiniDSP 2x4, and it looks like I am more lost than I thought..... Contrary to my success getting the Behringer UC22 interface and RadioShack mic set up measurements, with the MiniDSP, after downloading the UMIK cal number and all that, I couldn't get past the connections step and getting any sound out when trying to run sound level checks....no sound came from my subs. I would hear some coming from the laptop speakers though.. The indications in the 2x4 for use with REW in the MiniDSP user manual are very poorly written in my opinion so here is where I need some light.
So after airing out my frustration, here are my questions..... I do not think I need to, but do you know if I need to connect an interface between the laptop and the preamp? Also, do I need the pre-amp at all in the mix or is that only to set the 4way plug in after all has been done? Any guidance will help.
Thanks.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Sounds like some confusion happening here, the 2X4 is not used “with” REW. It connects between your receiver and subwoofers, like any other equalizer would.




R2RO said:


> I couldn't get past the connections step and getting any sound out when trying to run sound level checks....no sound came from my subs. I would hear some coming from the laptop speakers though.


Sounds like you haven’t set up the recording and playback devices in your OS. The UMIK should be selected as the recording device. Can’t advise you on the playback device because I don’t know how you’re getting sound from your computer to the HT system (e.g. headphone jack, HDMI, outboard sound card etc.).

Regards, 
Wayne


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

Yes, Wayne is right (of course . . .) To do measurements with REW, you need a way to get REW's signals from your computer to the receiver or pre-pro. If your computer and receiver have HDMI, do it that way for sure. Things may get more complicated and perhaps require an external sound card of some sort if you can't do it via HDMI. Once the computer is connected to the receiver, then you connect the UMIK mic to a USB port on the computer. If you're running the current version of REW, it should see the mic on startup and prompt for a calibration file (which you can get from the miniDSP website of course).

The miniDSP can be entirely out of the loop for measuring your current response. But when you insert it, you would run one RCA cable from your receiver's pre-out subwoofer jack to one of the inputs of the miniDSP. Then, for each sub in your system, run another RCA from one of the miniDSP outputs to the sub's input.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Sounds like some confusion happening here, the 2X4 is not used &#147;with&#148; REW. It connects between your receiver and subwoofers, like any other equalizer would. Sounds like you haven&#146;t set up the recording and playback devices in your OS. The UMIK should be selected as the recording device. Can&#146;t advise you on the playback device because I don&#146;t know how you&#146;re getting sound from your computer to the HT system (e.g. headphone jack, HDMI, outboard sound card etc.). Regards, Wayne


Hi Wayne, I really do appreciate your response and trying to understand my enquiry. You are right, I have not set up UMIK as a recording device. I had no idea I had to do that, I do not remember seeing that option. I will check it out again but went by the indications that said REW will recognize UMIK from the get go as long as you have a calibration .txt file, which I had downloaded from MiniDSP site, and used during set up as instructed. How do you set these up for recording and playback? Within REW preferences? .
I am trying to feed sound via REW, generating a pink noise signal. Thing is I tried to connect a cable from the mic jack of the computer into an RCA input in my Pre-amp, but did not see an subwoofer input ( other than the SW1 and 2 outputs). So I tried to use a different audio in input (RCA) in the pre-amp, selected that input, but nothing.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

R2RO said:


> Hi Wayne, I really do appreciate your response and trying to understand my enquiry. You are right, I have not set up UMIK as a recording device. I had no idea I had to do that, I do not remember seeing that option. I will check it out again but went by the indications that said REW will recognize UMIK from the get go as long as you have a calibration .txt file, which I had downloaded from MiniDSP site, and used during set up as instructed. How do you set these up for recording and playback? Within REW preferences? . I am trying to feed sound via REW, generating a pink noise signal. Thing is I tried to connect a cable from the mic jack of the computer into an RCA input in my Pre-amp, but did not see an subwoofer input ( other than the SW1 and 2 outputs). So I tried to use a different audio in input (RCA) in the pre-amp, selected that input, but nothing.


 correction: cable from the headphone jack of the computer....


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

bkeeler10 said:


> Yes, Wayne is right (of course . . .) To do measurements with REW, you need a way to get REW's signals from your computer to the receiver or pre-pro. If your computer and receiver have HDMI, do it that way for sure. Things may get more complicated and perhaps require an external sound card of some sort if you can't do it via HDMI. Once the computer is connected to the receiver, then you connect the UMIK mic to a USB port on the computer. If you're running the current version of REW, it should see the mic on startup and prompt for a calibration file (which you can get from the miniDSP website of course). I'm running the Beta 23version of REW, so it's the most current. It did prompt the cal file, which I loaded into REW. The miniDSP can be entirely out of the loop for measuring your current response. But when you insert it, you would run one RCA cable from your receiver's pre-out subwoofer jack to one of the inputs of the miniDSP. Then, for each sub in your system, run another RCA from one of the miniDSP outputs to the sub's input.. I did connect an RCA from the SW output to the MiniDSP input and split it to feed both inputs to feed all three subs (1 or Master SW, with 2 being slave sub, and 3&4)....actually I did this from the XLR output with a XLR/RCA adapter, which I would not expect that to affect anything as I know for sure all RCA and XLR are active. Then I connected each SW to an output (1, 3&4).
> I did connect an RCA from the SW output to the MiniDSP input and split it to feed both inputs to feed all three subs (1 or Master SW, with 2 being slave sub, and 3&4)....actually I did this from the XLR output with a XLR/RCA adapter, which I would not expect that to affect anything as I know for sure all RCA and XLR are active. Then I connected each SW to an output (1, 3&4).


 bkeeler thanks for the detailed reply. Unfortunately my laptop is pretty old, It has Vista OS just to give you an idea. I will stop using it and bring my desktop instead in the meantime till I decide whether I replace my lap or not.....however my desktop does not have HDMI either, so I may run into the same issue. I have tried to contact MiniDSP for them to provide guidance as to how to connect, but have not heard back from them yet. Interesting you mention the order of connecting UMIK afterwards, I did it reversed.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

R2RO said:


> this is what my response above should have looked like:
> bkeeler thanks for the detailed reply. Unfortunately my laptop is pretty old, It has Vista OS just to give you an idea. I will stop using it and bring my desktop instead in the meantime till I decide whether I replace my lap or not.....however my desktop does not have HDMI either, so I may run into the same issue. I have tried to contact MiniDSP for them to provide guidance as to how to connect, but have not heard back from them yet. Interesting you mention the order of connecting UMIK afterwards, I did it reversed. I'm running the Beta 23version of REW, so it's the most current. It did prompt the cal file, which I loaded into REW. I did connect an RCA from the SW output to the MiniDSP input and split it to feed both inputs to feed all three subs (1 or Master SW, with 2 being slave sub, and 3&4)....actually I did this from the XLR output with a XLR/RCA adapter, which I would not expect that to affect anything as I know for sure all RCA and XLR are active. Then I connected each SW to an output (1, 3&4). It looks like I need to figure out the REW set up to make it work. I will try to connect the UMIK in reverse order and get back with any news. Thanks again for your response.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

R2RO said:


> bkeeler thanks for the detailed reply. Unfortunately my laptop is pretty old, It has Vista OS just to give you an idea. I will stop using it and bring my desktop instead in the meantime till I decide whether I replace my lap or not.....however my desktop does not have HDMI either, so I may run into the same issue. I have tried to contact MiniDSP for them to provide guidance as to how to connect, but have not heard back from them yet. Interesting you mention the order of connecting UMIK afterwards, I did it reversed.


 please ignore this response and read the correct one below, for some reason I started typing within your message hoping it would separate my comments from yours.. Apologies


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

R2RO said:


> please ignore this response and read the correct one below, for some reason I started typing within your message hoping it would separate my comments from yours.. Apologies


 Correction: above.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hey R2R0,



R2RO said:


> You are right, I have not set up UMIK as a recording device. I had no idea I had to do that, I do not remember seeing that option.
> 
> How do you set these up for recording and playback?


As I mentioned in my previous post, it’s a function of the operating system, not REW. Since you’re using Vista, right-click on the little speaker icon at the bottom right side of your taskbar, then click on “Playback Devices” or “Recording Devices.” If the UMIK mic is plugged in, it will be in the list as a “Recording Device.” Set it for “Default.” When you do this, tap on the mic and you should see the meter get a reading.

For “Playback Devices,” if you have no outboard sound cards connected to the computer, there should only be one option, and it should already be set for “Default.” If you play back a song from your media player, you should see a signal on the meter. Also, if you can hear whatever the media player is playing through headphones plugged into the laptop, everything is working as it should and you’re good to go.




> I will check it out again but went by the indications that said REW will recognize UMIK from the get go as long as you have a calibration .txt file


One has nothing to do with the other. The mic will be recognized whether or not the .txt file is loaded. The calibration file must be loaded manually.




> Thing is I tried to connect a cable from the [headphone] jack of the computer into an RCA input in my Pre-amp,* but did not see an subwoofer input ( other than the SW1 and 2 outputs).*


I have no idea what that part in bold means (I've never seen a pre-amp with a subwoofer _input_), but if you’re hearing REW’s signals through your _headphones_, plugged into the computer’s headphone jack, then it will work when the headphone output is plugged into your pre-amp, as long as (1) you have the Playback Devices set properly in your OS, and (2) you’ve selected that Playback Device as the Output Device in REW’s Preferences / Soundcard window.




R2RO said:


> Unfortunately my laptop is pretty old, It has Vista OS just to give you an idea. I will stop using it and bring my desktop instead response.


No need to drag out the desktop, your laptop will work fine. I first used REW with a 10-year-old Compaq laptop and it worked fine. Still does, in fact.




> Interesting you mention the order of connecting UMIK afterwards, I did it reversed.
> I will try to connect the UMIK in reverse order and get back with any news.


The order of connection does not matter a bit. Just make sure the mic is connected before you boot up the computer.




R2RO said:


> correction: cable from the headphone jack of the computer....





R2RO said:


> please ignore this response and read the correct one below, for some reason I started typing within your message hoping it would separate my comments from yours.. Apologies


No need to make a new post for corrections, just use the “Edit” button to change the existing one.







​

Regards, 
Wayne


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Hey R2R0, As I mentioned in my previous post, it&#146;s a function of the operating system, not REW. Since you&#146;re using Vista, right-click on the little speaker icon at the bottom right side of your taskbar, then click on &#147;Playback Devices&#148; or &#147;Recording Devices.&#148; If the UMIK mic is plugged in, it will be in the list as a &#147;Recording Device.&#148; Set it for &#147;Default.&#148; When you do this, tap on the mic and you should see the meter get a reading. For &#147;Playback Devices,&#148; if you have no outboard sound cards connected to the computer, there should only be one option, and it should already be set for &#147;Default.&#148; If you play back a song from your media player, you should see a signal on the meter. Also, if you can hear whatever the media player is playing through headphones plugged into the laptop, everything is working as it should and you&#146;re good to go. One has nothing to do with the other. The mic will be recognized whether or not the .txt file is loaded. The calibration file must be loaded manually. I have no idea what that part in bold means (I've never seen a pre-amp with a subwoofer input), but if you&#146;re hearing REW&#146;s signals through your headphones, plugged into the computer&#146;s headphone jack, then it will work when the headphone output is plugged into your pre-amp, as long as (1) you have the Playback Devices set properly in your OS, and (2) you&#146;ve selected that Playback Device as the Output Device in REW&#146;s Preferences / Soundcard window. No need to drag out the desktop, your laptop will work fine. I first used REW with a 10-year-old Compaq laptop and it worked fine. Still does, in fact. The order of connection does not matter a bit. Just make sure the mic is connected before you boot up the computer. No need to make a new post for corrections, just use the &#147;Edit&#148; button to change the existing one. Regards, Wayne


 Wayne, you rock man! I can't wait till it's the weekend to try your recommendations out, thanks a lot, I will keep you posted.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Hey R2R0, As I mentioned in my previous post, it&#146;s a function of the operating system, not REW. Since you&#146;re using Vista, right-click on the little speaker icon at the bottom right side of your taskbar, then click on &#147;Playback Devices&#148; or &#147;Recording Devices.&#148; If the UMIK mic is plugged in, it will be in the list as a &#147;Recording Device.&#148; Set it for &#147;Default.&#148; When you do this, tap on the mic and you should see the meter get a reading. For &#147;Playback Devices,&#148; if you have no outboard sound cards connected to the computer, there should only be one option, and it should already be set for &#147;Default.&#148; If you play back a song from your media player, you should see a signal on the meter. Also, if you can hear whatever the media player is playing through headphones plugged into the laptop, everything is working as it should and you&#146;re good to go. One has nothing to do with the other. The mic will be recognized whether or not the .txt file is loaded. The calibration file must be loaded manually. I have no idea what that part in bold means (I've never seen a pre-amp with a subwoofer input), but if you&#146;re hearing REW&#146;s signals through your headphones, plugged into the computer&#146;s headphone jack, then it will work when the headphone output is plugged into your pre-amp,


Wayne thanks again for your help. I have followed the steps to ensure proper connectivity, but I have one quick question, what input should the mic jack/RCA be connected to in the AVProcessor? Any audio input? This is the back of my preamp. 


as long as (1) you have the Playback Devices set properly in your OS, and (2) you&#146;ve selected that Playback Device as the Output Device in REW&#146;s Preferences / Soundcard window. No need to drag out the desktop, your laptop will work fine. I first used REW with a 10-year-old Compaq laptop and it worked fine. Still does, in fact. The order of connection does not matter a bit. Just make sure the mic is connected before you boot up the computer. No need to make a new post for corrections, just use the &#147;Edit&#148; button to change the existing one. Regards, Wayne[/QUOTE]


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> No need to make a new post for corrections, just use the &#147;Edit&#148; button to change the existing one.


 I cannot see these options on my screen per the picture you sent, do I have an old HTS version maybe.....1.6.1? How can I add these? I tried to look in the settings but no luck...sorry about these newbie questions....hope you don.t mind.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Any “Analog Audio In” except Phono.

Regards, 
Wayne


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

Wayne A. Pflughaupt said:


> Any &#147;Analog Audio In&#148; except Phono. Regards, Wayne


 got it thanks! Here is the first measurement without Filters through REW-Pre-amp-MiniDS of all 4 subs connected through Pre-Amp- MiniDSP with all SW levels approximately at 85 dB.
The second pic shows the Target vs Predicted with Filters. 
Next is to load into MiniDSP.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

R2RO said:


> got it thanks! Here is the first measurement without Filters through REW-Pre-amp-MiniDS of all 4 subs connected through Pre-Amp- MiniDSP with all SW levels approximately at 85 dB. The second pic shows the Target vs Predicted with Filters. Next is to load into MiniDSP.


 I think I made some progress......here is what the curve looks like after running a measurement in REW, with loaded filters to the MiniDSP 2x4 via 4way Adv plug in and finally synched with MiniDSP box.
So I disconnected everything to play some music with a nice bass to test the system, but no bass comes out. The question I have is, do I need to maintain the MiniDSP connected to the laptop to power it all the time? I thought once it was synched, it could be disconnected from the laptop as program would be loaded in there already...but then again, I am probably wrong.


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## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hey R2,

Your graphs aren’t of much use unless they’re scaled properly. A 240 dB vertical scale like you’re using will make the Grand Canyon look like the high plains of Nebraska. See here:

Posting A Graph

Also, the little camera icon at the top left of the graphwill save it as a .jpg, so you don’t have to use an actual camera. 

Regards, 
Wayne


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

R2RO said:


> So I disconnected everything to play some music with a nice bass to test the system, but no bass comes out. The question I have is, do I need to maintain the MiniDSP connected to the laptop to power it all the time? I thought once it was synched, it could be disconnected from the laptop as program would be loaded in there already...but then again, I am probably wrong.


The miniDSP does not need a connection to the computer, but it does need power. So if you unplug it from your computer, you will need a power supply connected to the same USB port you connected the computer to. If I recall correctly, it needs 5 V.


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## R2RO (Jul 31, 2014)

bkeeler10 said:


> The miniDSP does not need a connection to the computer, but it does need power. So if you unplug it from your computer, you will need a power supply connected to the same USB port you connected the computer to. If I recall correctly, it needs 5 V.


 thanks bkeeler, I thought so, so I plugged it to the back of my pre-amp which is always powered, the only thing is it makes a humm sound through the subs, which you can notice when everything is off, not too too bad but I wish it did not do it. Also tried my Panamax, but same thing.....did you experience the same thing by any chance?


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## bkeeler10 (Mar 26, 2008)

No, I did not. Sounds like a ground loop hum though. I would search for a small wall wart power supply, which should be available for a few to several bucks I would think. One with a lifted ground to avoid the ground loop problem. Looks like it can accept anywhere from 4.5 volts to 24 volts.

Another option: It can also take power using a simple positive/negative connection with a 2-pin phoenix connector. Looks like it came with the necessary phoenix connector. So I bet you have a spare power supply from some other old device that you don't use anymore. If so, check to make sure it is within the voltage requirements for the miniDSP, then cut the end off of it to gain access to the positive and negative wires. Wire them to the phoenix connector, and then plug that into the miniDSP.


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