# Can 1 sub sound as good as 2?



## Philimon (May 5, 2013)

For listening in the sweet spot?

I want to know if it's better to get 1 sub or two, if all movie watching is from 1 couch in the room. I can see how dual subs could help with imaging and soundstage in a stereo setup with a higher crossover point, but mine will be just for movies with a crossover no higher than 60Hz. I know that two subs help with nulls and smoothing the freq response throughout the room, but if I place the sub for a flat response at the only seating position, then am I missing some other advantage from dual subs beside increased SPL, like the aforementioned imaging/soundstage? Even from only the sweet spot, is it still easier just to use dual subs for smoothing freq response and dealing with "localization"?


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## 86eldel68-deactivated (Nov 30, 2010)

As you point out, one of the main advantages of dual subs is smoother FR across multiple listening positions. If your couch seats one person (or a couple of people sitting close together), you should be fine with a single sub. If it seats three or more - especially if they are somewhat spread apart - you may find that duals will work better.

Given that...
- you'll be using a crossover of 60Hz; and
- bass is omnidirectional,
...imaging/soundstage should not factor into the equation.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

And to add to what Eljay said above if budget is a concern its usually better to get one good sub that digs deeper than two lesser quality subs that dont go nearly as low.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

The possibility for one sub to sound as good as two, is there. Finding the spot in your room to make that happen will be more difficult. Imaging will be a non issue. I read a very in depth test that the late great Tom Noussaine conducted about stereo subs versus multiple subs sharing the same signal. In the end the former was declared better. I'm also in the camp of buy the best subwoofer you can now, and save for another to match in the future. Even if you don't run it as hot as you may prefer,(till the 2nd arrives) there's nothing like a sub that goes deep.


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## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Two small subwoofer don't equal a good big subwoofer. Two subwoofer will smooth the response across multiple listening position. But before buying multiple subwoofer like other said just make sure that it's worth it. Usually most 500$ and up subwoofer will hit 20hz if you go in reputable brand and will have gain by getting two of them. 

Subwoofer position is as much important if not more with two sub as they can cancel each other and create wierd room mode if not located properly.

At this point it's almost up to you and what you wan't to obtain that will tell you what to do. Do you want to play lower bass and louder ? Then going for a better subwoofer might be a better option. Or are you okay with how low you go and how loud the system play? The another subwoofer will help even out the bass across the room.


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## Philimon (May 5, 2013)

eljay said:


> As you point out, one of the main advantages of dual subs is smoother FR across multiple listening positions. If your couch seats one person (or a couple of people sitting close together), you should be fine with a single sub. If it seats three or more - especially if they are somewhat spread apart - you may find that duals will work better.
> 
> Given that...
> - you'll be using a crossover of 60Hz; and
> ...


That's what I want to hear, so I save $1/2.



tonyvdb said:


> And to add to what Eljay said above if budget is a concern its usually better to get one good sub that digs deeper than two lesser quality subs that dont go nearly as low.


Same comment as above.



willis7469 said:


> The possibility for one sub to sound as good as two, is there. Finding the spot in your room to make that happen will be more difficult. Imaging will be a non issue. I read a very in depth test that the late great Tom Noussaine conducted about* stereo subs versus multiple subs sharing the same signal. In the end the former was declared better.* I'm also in the camp of buy the best subwoofer you can now, and save for another to match in the future. Even if you don't run it as hot as you may prefer,(till the 2nd arrives) there's nothing like a sub that goes deep.


Im confused. It sounds like you're saying stereo L/R subs are greater than multi-subs using the same signal. 



Steeve-O said:


> Two small subwoofer don't equal a good big subwoofer. Two subwoofer will smooth the response across multiple listening position. But before buying multiple subwoofer like other said just make sure that it's worth it. Usually most 500$ and up subwoofer will hit 20hz if you go in reputable brand and will have gain by getting two of them.
> 
> Subwoofer position is as much important if not more with two sub as they can cancel each other and create wierd room mode if not located properly.
> 
> At this point it's almost up to you and what you wan't to obtain that will tell you what to do. Do you want to play lower bass and louder ? Then going for a better subwoofer might be a better option. Or are you okay with how low you go and how loud the system play? The another subwoofer will help even out the bass across the room.


Hmmm. Well, loudness is important too for headroom, but I've no idea if it's even possible to get reference levels without distortion on my budget. It's not something I've even researched, because I see pics of people's MEGA GIANT MULTI-SUBWOOFER theater rooms and I think to myself that if _that_ is necessary, then I'm not going to even try because it's certainly way out of budget.

Thanks everyone. I'd still like to hear more info on this subject if there is anything else to consider or to hear from people who had been in similar situations and later added a second sub and found an improvement.


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## Steeve-O (Dec 3, 2010)

Getting reference level on a budget is close to impossible unless you have a really small room. Not only the subwoofer is the limiting factor but also the speaker. Going DIY for subwoofer will allow you to build awesome subwoofer for the money but even then the minimal investement for getting a DIY subwoofer is not going to be much under 500$. There are cheap DIY subwoofer that will have the power to go reference in a lot of room like a Tuba HT that will cost around 500$ to build if you have some minimal tool but sub like these have trade off (there is always) they don't play much below 22~25 HZ and they are huge (which can be hard on the WAF). If you don't mind losing output below 20 HZ they are fantastic subwoofer but people here are chasing the single digit HZ subwoofer which is not for people on a budget. 

Personaly I've built a Trio 12 subwoofer in a 4,5 ft3 tuned to 20 HZ a few years back. I purchased some SVS sound SBS-02 and matching center channel as speaker. This is a great system but it can't achieve reference (and anyway reference is quite loud anyway). At -5 db speaker start to sound strained they could play louder but they sound harsher. I also like my bass 4~5 db hot like a lot of people and if I watch movie above -10 db some movie push my amp to much and I can hear the voltage limiter clipping so I usually never watch movie above -10db (usually -15db). 

My Trio 12 costed me about 800$ CAN to finish the enclosure and all but I also did a nice finish that was more expensive. Now there are nicer subwoofer driver for less money but still going DIY is great but always think that you will spend more than you think.

Once I have some money to spend I plan to upgrade everything. I may even go DIY for the speaker. But for subwoofer I need a good upgrade my 12" isn't cutting it for me. I have multiple seating position with bad bass and it just doesn't pressurize the room like it did when it was in a small room. I'm also a bass head which doesn't help.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Hi philimon. I need to learn how to proofread!(I meant the latter, sorry) With your question about imaging, I somehow thought you meant stereo subs. In any case, if you can localize your sub, that's about the only time it should affect imaging. As far as 1 or 2, the benefits of multiples are well documented, and worth the investment. Again, I'm also in the (less popular?) crowd, but agree with Tony about one more capable vs 2lesser subs. The reason is I went from a decent sub to a great sub to 2 great subs and now have 3. (4th to come). While living with the single great sub, it was rear located. I crossed it at 50z cause my mains go low, and localization was occasionally an issue...... Next post


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

I then built a diy clone, and was able to address localization. This took a long time with phase and placement and XO. Benefits were smoothing and headroom. This was huge because my space is large. I then added a 3rd sub that was a fixer upper for a friend this helped a null issue, but its performance was mediocre, but I needed for the null, not extension. This was replaced by an sb2000 this summer. By itself, it would self destruct, but with the other 2 my room has never been so balanced, and powerful. The point is, my single great sub was amazing once dialed(as much as I could), and fulfilling. I found smooth response wasn't as impactful overall as one great sub. Treat it like a long term investment, and know the road might be long, but it's worth it.


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## Philimon (May 5, 2013)

I will get just 1, and 2 if my needs change or am having trouble with localization. Thanks for the advice guys.


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## willis7469 (Jan 31, 2014)

Philimon said:


> I will get just 1, and 2 if my needs change or am having trouble with localization. Thanks for the advice guys.


 Btw, I don't recall you mentioning a budget, or any contenders. Anything in mind?


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## 3dbinCanada (Sep 13, 2012)

willis7469 said:


> The possibility for one sub to sound as good as two, is there. Finding the spot in your room to make that happen will be more difficult. Imaging will be a non issue. I read a very in depth test that the late great Tom Noussaine conducted about stereo subs versus multiple subs sharing the same signal. In the end the former was declared better. I'm also in the camp of buy the best subwoofer you can now, and save for another to match in the future. Even if you don't run it as hot as you may prefer,(till the 2nd arrives) there's nothing like a sub that goes deep.


Agreed. Here's my work to find the sweet spot for a single sub.









2 SVS PB3000 or 1 SVS PB 16 ULTRA


Hello all, I'm just starting my journey into the home audio scene and need some advice. I currently have a Klipsch Cinema 600 sound bar which allows for an addition of one subwoofer. I bought a pb3000 a week ago and am loving it. However I am craving a little more tactile bass. It is set up in...




www.hometheatershack.com


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