# Home Theater System Impressions



## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I recently have Purchased an Onkyo TR-NX709 and the Pioneer SP-PK51FS and after a few days with them all I could say is wow. I am shocked at how much better this sounds than my old logitech z-5500! The funny/frustrating thing is the cable I ordered for the subwoofer isn't the right one so I don't even have the sub hooked up yet and the bass from the speakers alone is better. I did all the Audyssey set ups and everything worked great the Onkyo receiver looks amazing and it runs surprisingly cool, it is barely warm to touch. However, I still have some more questions if anyone is interested in helping. My center speaker even after the calibrations sounds somewhat quiet. I'm not sure if my logitech just played the center channel too loud, but it just seems as if the other speakers dwarf it in terms of volume. So my question is do I need to do anything with the speaker configuration on the Onkyo manually as well? I'm not sure what the correct settings for Hz are with my speakers or did Audyssey already calibrate this too? It says Full Band is for large center speakers, but my center speaker is bigger than my surround and smaller than my floor-standers so I'm a little confused about that.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Audyssey will not always get it correct due to room response and furniture placement. How did you place the mic? did you use a tripod and place it at ear level on your seat?


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I held it at ear level on my couch and measured it three times before it said I could finish. I figured three was good enough since the couch only seats three people.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

you held it? thats not going to work as your hand movements no matter how small will mess up the readings its a very sensitive mic.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I see will it matter if its tilted then? Because if I set it on a tripod on my couch it's going to be tilted a little.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

as long as the mic is pointed up thats all you need. it will give better readings than if you hold it.
Once its done then check the settings, set all the crossovers at 80hz and then see how it sounds


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Alright, I will do that unfortunately it will have to wait until morning since that thing is loud when it calibrates. Do you have any suggestions for what are the best listening modes for music, tv/movies, and music there is just so many and I was wondering if there are any I should avoid.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I actually adjusted my center up a tad after Audessey did its thing as I noticed the same thing. I also took Jeff's (JBrax) advice and upped the master volume from +8 to +12.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

for movies I leave it on THX cinema or THX Ultra2 (not sure if you have that one) For music I usually just use stereo or Pure direct.
Its going to be more preference as to what you like so just play and see what sounds best.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I see.. I'm still very impressed by how nice it sounds. I'm just lost in an array of features and enhanced audio. I'm so excited to hear what this thing sounds like with a sub woofer as well! : D


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

you will need to re run Audyssey again after your sub is hooked up otherwise it wont work correctly.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I see I just wanted to make sure there wasn't any specific settings that were better than others. I tested the upscaling with my Wii today and I am extremely impressed by how much cleaner the video is too. This receiver is amazing.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Yeah, I intended on redoing Audyssey once I had the sub hooked up. I was just curious as to why the center speaker was a little low.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

just wait till you have it all done, you will love the sound Im sure 
You can manually rais the level on the centre if you wish in the speaker level settings.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I already do love the sound I'm just trying not to turn it up too loud because of the whole break in thing. I have it set to 45 and i'm keeping it there until the 50 hour period is past. I'm looking forward and really hoping I get the right cable for my sub this time.


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## JBrax (Oct 13, 2011)

45 sounds pretty low on the volume. I generally view movies between 25-30. I think you would be ok upping the volume a bit without fear of damaging your speakers during the break in period.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

If you don't have a tripod (and even if you do) I sometimes pile pillows on the couch up to ear level and set the mic on them. I actually stand out of the room (*don't* stand between the mic and any speakers!!) while the room eq runs.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I redid the calibration and they were a little different and the system sounds louder now. However, the center speaker is still a little on the quiet side and audyssey reset the Hz of the surround and center speakers back to 50Hz. Should I leave it this way or switch them both to 80Hz(THX)?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Raikugen said:


> I redid the calibration and they were a little different and the system sounds louder now. However, the center speaker is still a little on the quiet side and audyssey reset the Hz of the surround and center speakers back to 50Hz. Should I leave it this way or switch them both to 80Hz(THX)?


I'd probably go with 80Hz. I looked-up your center online, and its frequency response is given as 67hz-24kHz. 50Hz is too low.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Is 50Hz okay for the surround speakers then?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ideally you want all your speakers crossovers to be set the same. Let your sub handle the lows as it was designed to do.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Sorry I forgot to mention the surrounds. The specs on the Mission 762i speakers shows a low end (f3) of 41Hz, so I might try ~60Hz for these. 50Hz should be fine, but you may find that 80Hz is best. I'd try it both ways and go with what sounds best. 

I _like_ having some bass in the surrounds, but opinions vary on this. There is some merit to having everything crossed over at ~80Hz, but your surrounds will reproduce some low end; it won't hurt to try it as long as you don't set the crossover too low. If you like to play with the settings, try it with different settings. If not, set it at 80Hz and enjoy!


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Alright I just wanted to make sure setting the to 80Hz wouldn't damage them or anything. I was also wondering would -32db be a good listening volume for blu rays right now during break in?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Raikugen said:


> Alright I just wanted to make sure setting the to 80Hz wouldn't damage them or anything.


No; just the opposite. There's a better chance of damaging the speakers by sending them too much bass; that's why I recommended ~60Hz instead of 50Hz.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

I should add that (in general) the lower the crossover frequency the more bass goes to the speaker. In other words, 80Hz sends _more_ bass to the subwoofer and _less_ to the center channel than setting the center at 50Hz.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Ahh I see thank you for explaining that to me. So 80Hz for the center and 60Hz for the surround speakers?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Try it, but you may very well find that 80Hz sounds better. Tony has a valid point, too. The subwoofer is _designed_ to reproduce the low frequencies; it may sound best set at 80Hz.

I like bass in the surrounds, and your surrounds will reproduce some low end. It will not hurt to try the surrounds at ~60Hz. I'm not trying to confuse you. My point is that it _may_ sound better with some bass in the surrounds. If you want to keep it simple just set them (and the center) at 80Hz.

As I stated: "If you like to play with the settings, try it with different settings. If not, set it at 80Hz and enjoy!"


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Yeah I decided I liked 60Hz for now. Once the sub cable comes on monday I'll redo the audyssey set up and see what I think then. Thank you for letting me know what the Hz meant. Also I was curious about something else Audyssey has a music, movie, and off setting what would be ideal for gaming?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Raikugen said:


> what would be ideal for gaming?


Honestly, I don't do _any_ gaming so I don't know for sure (my PS3 is used for blu ray and Netflix). The old stand-by, "whatever sounds best" is a bit trite, but it's true. Maybe someone who does more gaming can comment?

Sorry, but I'd rather tell you that I don't know than make-up something. :innocent:


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

It's okay I was just curious I will probably just see what it sounds like on movie and with it on off. I don't think Music would work too well unless I was playing rock band or something.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I was wondering what should I do for the volume and Hz on the back of the sub? I have two floor standers so should I put it at 70 Hz like the manual suggests? If so what of the volume should it be half or all the way up?


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Since you are using the crossover in your AVR to control the sub, I'd bypass the sub's internal crossover (the "Hz" as you put it) by turning it all the way up. It may have a bypass option/input. Check the back of the sub for crossover "bypass" or "off." It may have an LFE input that bypasses the crossover.

As for the volume, ~1/3 to 1/2 way is a good starting point. Again, the AVR will set/control this itself, so you shouldn't need to play with it once it's set. Like the crossover mentioned above, the AVR is controlling this for you.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

wgmontgomery said:


> Since you are using the crossover in your AVR to control the sub, I'd bypass the sub's internal crossover (the "Hz" as you put it) by turning it all the way up. It may have a bypass option/input. Check the back of the sub for crossover "bypass" or "off." It may have an LFE input that bypasses the crossover.
> 
> As for the volume, ~1/3 to 1/2 way is a good starting point. Again, the AVR will set/control this itself, so you shouldn't need to play with it once it's set. Like the crossover mentioned above, the AVR is controlling this for you.


Just a note, the SW8 subwoofer in your 5.1 package does NOT have a crossover bypass according to the online manual.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Well I have everything set up and the auddysey calibration had me adjust the sub volume to 75 db and the manual recommended the frequency between 40 hz and 70 hz. However, the sub sounds extremely quiet I can't even tell its on. Anyone have any recommendations?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

What do you have the volume level on the sub its self set to?


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

75 db is what I had it set to the auddysey calibration on the screen was able to tell when I was adjusting the subwoofer.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I set the LPF of LFE setting from 120 Hz to Bypass and it sounds a lot louder. Is there anything else I should do settings wise?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Bypass is where you want it, your making adjustments while running Audyessey? Your supposed to leave everything along as the receiver will adjust everything automatically. There is a volume knob on the sub, that should be at 12 oclock. re run Audyessey again dont touch anything while its running and stand out of the room.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I apologize I'm doing a bad job explaining. When I began audyssey's calibration it brought up a sub volume calibration setting and told me to adjust the volume until it matched 75 db. After I did this I calibrated it normally as I did before standing outside the room and not touching anything. I didn't touch the sub while it was calibrating with the mic.


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## swingin (May 11, 2011)

Raikugen said:


> Yeah I decided I liked 60Hz for now. Once the sub cable comes on monday I'll redo the audyssey set up and see what I think then. Thank you for letting me know what the Hz meant. Also I was curious about something else Audyssey has a music, movie, and off setting what would be ideal for gaming?


I have the same AVR, 709. As for your gaming I would highly recommend the Tritton AX PRO headset, $150, :Tit has a volume control for every channel, sub woofer included, plus a mute button which is always nice. Then you don't have to worry about waking the neighbors..


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

I don't know why I just really don't like headsets I tried a turtle beach headset in the past and they just aren't my thing. Thank you for your suggestion though.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Should I just ignore the audyssey set up of 75 db and calibrate it with the volume set half way? Because I adjusted the volume after the calibration and it sounds much better, but I want to make sure its in check with the rest of the system.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If I recall correctly, Tony normally runs his subs at 80-85 instead of 75 and prefers them that way. So, I would suggest when it asks you to set them to 75db, set them to 80 or 85 instead and see how that sounds.

Tony will of course correct me if I am wrong!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Its always best to use your ears, if it sounds better up a little higher then thats where you should keep it. what are you listening to when turning it up? Music or a movie? Music will by default be less noticeable as most music only goes down to 30Hz and alot of the stuff released these days is so highly compressed that you will be lucky to get down to 40Hz with any meaningful levels.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

ALMFamily said:


> If I recall correctly, Tony normally runs his subs at 80-85 instead of 75 and prefers them that way. So, I would suggest when it asks you to set them to 75db, set them to 80 or 85 instead and see how that sounds.
> 
> Tony will of course correct me if I am wrong!


Yes, thats correct. At higher levels (above reference) this is a bit much but if listening to mostly at lower levels it helps to warm up the lower frequencies.


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Well I'm sure I have it much higher than that now. It's a shame it only tells me what the volume is right before I calibrate the system. But I will increase it to 85 and redo the set up, I have the volume set to 12 o clock right now and before when it told me to have it on 75 it was basically at the 9 o clock setting. So I turned it up quite a bit. Also the system tried setting my floor standers from Large or full I think its called to 40 hz instead. Any thoughts on whether I should put it back on Full since the receiver says use with floor standing speakers?


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## swingin (May 11, 2011)

This is how you should do your sub,
Here is what to do - when the dB shows 75 on the set-up screen, have your SPL meter running at the same time on C-Slow. Note what that SPL meter says, because that is your reference SPL. 



Then go into the AVR (after Audyssey is done), and run the subwoofer test tone manually (the SPL should still be the same as auto-set-up). Then lower the sub channel in the AVR down to around -9 and then increase the gain at the subwoofer until you re-achieve the same reference SPL. The gain on the sub will then be higher and more optimal, and I always set my Xovers up 20Hz from what audyssey says.. and I have large speakers all around..


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## Raikugen (Jul 6, 2011)

Sorry to be such a noob and ask this, but what is a SPL meter? ><


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## swingin (May 11, 2011)

Raikugen said:


> Sorry to be such a noob and ask this, but what is a SPL meter? ><


Radio shack sound level meter, also known around here as a SPL.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

Raikugen said:


> Sorry to be such a noob and ask this, but what is a SPL meter? ><


It measures *S*ound *P*ressure *L*evel which is how loud the sound is. :hsd:


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## gdstupak (Jul 13, 2010)

How I adjust the crossover frequencies (Hz) for my speakers:
After I run Audyssey calibration, my Onyo AVR usually sets the crossovers for the center channel and the surround channels too low for good sound quality. My center speaker and in-wall surround speakers will play down to 60hz, so Audyssey correctly measures this and the AVR will set a crossover ~70hz for these speakers.
The problem is, my center speaker and surround speakers sound a bit 'boxy' when playing around 70hz-80hz, my Audyssey/AVR does not take this poor sound quality into consideration. So I would play a movie with a soundtrack where I could definitely hear the poor boxy sound (for the center speaker it was usually something with a lower bass male voice, something like Darth Vader's voice). I would then manually raise the crossover for the center speaker until it didn't sound boxy anymore (I think mine finally ended up at 100hz crossover). Then I do the same for the surround speakers (mine ended up at 90hz crossover). My large main speakers sound great with the bass, so they are crossed over at 50hz.


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## wgmontgomery (Jun 9, 2011)

If that's what sounds best, then "that's what sounds best."  Remember that speakers always depend on the room for their sound...especially bass. The specs that a company quotes for the speaker's bass response may not be accurate due to room interactions. The speaker could go a bit lower in the right room or may sound boxy as you stated.

The concise version is that the room affects the speaker in ways that the company can't really predict with 100% accuracy as everyone's room is different.


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