# Calibration



## Tyrone

Who has the best calibration blue ray disc? I have a 65" 3-d vizio led tv


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## hjones4841

That's a good question. I checked Amazon for Joe Kane's Digital Video Essentials and the Spears & Munsil blu ray set up discs and it almost looks like they are off the market, or at least are not available from Amazon. Those two are highly regarded. You may have luck on e-bay, but if the blue filter strip is missing then the disc won't be fully useful.

Beyond that, there are some colorimeters that can be used for better result, but prices start at about $150 and go way up into the thousands for the really good ones:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_s...r+monitor+calibration&sprefix=colorim,aps,246

I have an older version of the X-Rite that I used to use on my projector and computer monitors. It did seem to make things a little better.


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## JohnM

I'll move this to the video calibration forum, lots of info there.


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## KelvinS1965

I use the AVS HD709 disc as I've found it better than the DVE, Spears & Munsil and other commercial discs I have bought and tried. I wouldn't bother with the blue filters as they aren't very accurate, so just use the basic patterns on the AVS disc to set brightness, contrast and sharpness, there really isn't much else you can do without a meter IMHO. However, just getting those basic settings right can be a great help. You could check reviews for your display to see which modes give the best starting point for calibration, but displays vary and front projectors in different rooms and screens will vary much more.

Seeing just how inaccurate my 3 year old i1LT(D2) has become I wouldn't recommend using one either (and especially not buying one secondhand) unless you want to only measure gamma, which they can do quite well. I've had much better success using the newer i1 display Pro (with additional corrections) along with Chromapure Pro including the autocal feature with a Lumagen VP. Even using the new sensor for quick manual calibrations of other displays around the house has proven to give me much more consistant results than I ever got with the i1LT.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration


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## Tyrone

Thanks. I found the spears and munsil blue ray disc at crutchfield. It was between S&M or the Disney WOW disc. S&M has better reviews. Thanks again.


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## mechman

Spears & Munsil is probably getting low in stock because they are coming out with a new version soon.


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## KelvinS1965

mechman said:


> Spears & Munsil is probably getting low in stock because they are coming out with a new version soon.


The existing disc is useful to check which settings work best with your display (such as deinterlacing options and whether to output in RGB, YCrCb 4:2:2 or 4:4:4) but I don't find it much use for calibration myself. Perhaps the new version is going to include some better test patterns, otherwise I'm not sure what else it could help with.


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## mechman

KelvinS1965 said:


> The existing disc is useful to check which settings work best with your display (such as deinterlacing options and whether to output in RGB, YCrCb 4:2:2 or 4:4:4) but I don't find it much use for calibration myself. Perhaps the new version is going to include some better test patterns, otherwise I'm not sure what else it could help with.


Really? I did a check of all the discs quite some time ago and they were all virtually the same. The Spears & Munsil blu-ray is my go to disc for checking/setting white and black levels. I don't even carry the avs disc with me anymore. Considering that the only things you can really calibrate with a disc are white/black levels and sharpness, I find it a bit odd that you would find more use out of the avs disc. :scratch: 

For the few things that you can do with a disc, the Spears & Munsil disc offers quite a bit more than the avs disc. It is well worth the money spent. And it is no easier to set white/black levels using the avs disc than it is to use the Spears & Munsil disc.


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## michael tlv

Greetings

S&M ... Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, Sharpness, Overscan. All these can be set with this disc.

Is Color and Tint with a filter perfect? Of course not ... but then again, neither is using a meter for color and tint.

Regards


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## KelvinS1965

michael tlv said:


> Greetings
> 
> S&M ... Contrast, Brightness, Color, Tint, Sharpness, Overscan. All these can be set with this disc.
> 
> Is Color and Tint with a filter perfect? Of course not ... but then again, *neither is using a meter for color and tint.*
> 
> Regards


But, how else would a _pro_ calibrate colour and tint (or more likely the CMS)? :scratch: As an enthusiast amateur I'd rather use a meter ( a fairly lowly i1 display Pro with the Chromapure correction option). Also, given that there is a free option I'd use the AVS disc rather than pay for the S&M one just for calibration.

@mechman Not all displays show obvious differences between RGB, YCrCb (4:2:2 or 4:4:4) but for those that do the S&M will help decide which is best. Same if you have different options for deinterlacing such as forced film mode or whether it's done in the player, video processor or display. However, once you've tested for this and made you decision, then you don't need to keep rechecking it as you would for a calibration. Personally I stick with feeding my displays with 4:2:2 as this is what works best with my Lumagen VP as recommended by Jim Peterson.


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## michael tlv

Greetings

The Original poster is asking about test discs ... not what a pro would do or have. He also has not mentioned that he has calibration equipment ... 

People pretty much never go get the calibration gear without at least sampling some basic calibration discs before hand.

Regards


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## KelvinS1965

michael tlv said:


> Greetings
> 
> The Original poster is asking about test discs ... not what a pro would do or have. He also has not mentioned that he has calibration equipment ...
> 
> People pretty much never go get the calibration gear without at least sampling some basic calibration discs before hand.
> 
> Regards


Hence why I suggested a free, but good, disc that has the patterns needed to do the simple 'by eye' adjustments. I also wanted to let the OP know that it wasn't too important to worry about getting a coloured filter as I've seen plenty of Pros suggest that they aren't very accurate. Anyway, it seems that the OP is now sorted with the S&M disc.

I was also answering to your comment that filters aren't accurate and neither are meters for setting colour and tint. The later part I found particularly odd. There is a particular section in Chromapure for doing exactly that (I guess maybe also in Calman?) and as they use meters I don't know what else you could use to do this. :scratch: I know some Pros like to make out that unless you have a $10,000 probe then you are wasting your time, but some of the newer meter packages that you can get with profiles for certain types of displays built in give pretty good results. If they didn't then I'd suggest this sub forum probably wouldn't be worth having, except as a promotion tool for Pros. It's hard enough convincing some people that calibration is worthwhile without putting them off before they even try it...

Anyway, as the OP is now sorted I guess this is going far off topic...


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## michael tlv

Greetings

The blue filter is considered to be better than nothing. It gets you in the ball park. We then use our eyes to determine its reasonableness. 

When setting with a meter, it also gets you into the ballpark and is usually a better way than with the blue filter, but it too is not infallible. I have done enough TVs to see where the meter fails at times and the blue filter actually gives better results. I have done sets where neither the blue filter or the meter gave the best result, but it did create a range whereby the best visual result was something in between.

Use the meter ... It gets you in the ball park. We then use our eyes to determine its reasonableness. 

The same end result ... we still use our eyes. Graphs are not the final determination of something being right or wrong if the system is screwed up in the TV.

I hope you already know what I think of meter profiles and offset tables that are supposedly built into the meter. Sometimes they work right and sometimes they mess up. (Too bad we don't know when that happens.) It's not about the cost of the meter at all. It's about the technology type. Colorimeter versus spectro. I'd trust my Colormunki spectro at $400 over a $7000 Klein K10 with it's "tables" any day.

Regards


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## PE06MCG

@ Michael tlv

I fully understand your preference for Spectro rather than Tristim meters.

I have an Xrite OEM D3 but have that nagging doubt regarding its LUT compliance with my Display (a Toshiba CCFL LCD).

I have been tempted to check it by buying an i1 Display Pro but it seems a lot of money for peace of mind. My question is therefore about the ColorMunki Spectro which you mention and is appreciably cheaper.

Would it have sufficient accuracy to tell me if my D3 is reading correctly or at least within the limits of 'visible threshold'?


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## michael tlv

Greetings

The Colormunki spectro pretty much has the same inside as the i1 pro. It's design makes it less efficient for front projection work ... 

And only Calman is compatible with the device ... don't know about the hcfr.

(I'd trust my d3 more after I profile it against my spectro. )

Regards


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## Turbe

The new fork of ColorHCFR should support the ColorMunki Spectro, it's supported by Argyll, see: http://www.argyllcms.com/doc/ArgyllDoc.html

I'd suggest you look for a used i1Pro Spectro or EFI ES1000 (UV-Cut ok for our purposes)... They can be found between $200 - $450 (sometimes even lower from a few reports) here in the States. You probably won't find a used ColorMunki Spectro for under $300.. I myself have a ColorMunki Photo and have a few users who want it from me, all with offers just over $300.. some want it because of the included X-Rite software. All four of my i1Pros sold for $400 or more a few months back.

Pretty much anyone (at least they should be) using the Klein K-10 (I have one myself) will profile it to a Spectro... some have access to Spectros like the Photo Research models to profile against.

IMO, there is no better combination of a K-10 and a Spectro in the industry.


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## PE06MCG

michael tlv said:


> Greetings
> 
> The Colormunki spectro pretty much has the same inside as the i1 pro. It's design makes it less efficient for front projection work ...
> 
> And only Calman is compatible with the device ... don't know about the hcfr.
> 
> (I'd trust my d3 more after I profile it against my spectro. )
> 
> Regards


Many thanks Michael, I do appreciate your reply and value your opinion / knowledge.

As an amateur calibrator I use both CP (which you have mentioned does not support the Colormunki) and Calman 5, so since Calman allows use of the OEM version as well as C6 it should work OK.

I did not realise they were so similar (from an innards point of view) so since I am using it on an LCD can I eliminate my D3 and just use the Colormunki Photo or would you recommend 'profiling' the D3 with it?


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## Turbe

I didn't ready enough above, it appears you already have a ColorMunki.. 

Do Profiling but for your LCD, your Munki itself can do the job (I don't think you will worry as much about the low end).. Since you have both.. do two calibration runs, one with the Munki, with with a iD3 profiled to the Munki.. .. try a 3rd session using the iD3 without the profiling so you can get the data.

Come on, there is time for all of this, isn't there? lddude::devil:


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## michael tlv

Greetings

On your own TV, speed is over rated. This is not a race to see how fast you can get it done. I'd just stick to the munki ... until you have doubts about its sensitivity in the really dark end of things.

Regards


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## Turbe

One of the biggest problems with these low end colorimeters (even when profiled) is syncing to the different displays (at least for the display I played on with them) regardless of these sync options in the software and what source/signal is input... I just never had those sync issues with my K-10

If you have a i1Pro or ColorMunki Spectro, just do the entire calibration with it... the Munki can have mounting "challenges".. contact RayJr for a ColorMunki mount.


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## PE06MCG

Turbe said:


> I didn't ready enough above, it appears you already have a ColorMunki..
> 
> Do Profiling but for your LCD, your Munki itself can do the job (I don't think you will worry as much about the low end).. Since you have both.. do two calibration runs, one with the Munki, with with a iD3 profiled to the Munki.. .. try a 3rd session using the iD3 without the profiling so you can get the data.
> 
> Come on, there is time for all of this, isn't there? lddude::devil:


Many thanks for your guidance.
I was going to get to the methodology but I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I already had a Colormunki Photo. I don't yet have one but that will change quickly.

My reluctance to buy one has been because experts generally (other than yourself and Michael) have disregarded the use of the Colormunki as a backward step.

I now intend to get one tomorrow, certainly the price in UK is much cheaper than the i1 Spectro.


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## Turbe

PE06MCG said:


> I was going to get to the methodology but I'm sorry if I gave you the impression I already had a Colormunki


Perhaps my blue eye has gone blind. :sneeky:



PE06MCG said:


> My reluctance to buy one has been because experts generally (other than yourself and Michael) have disregarded the use of the Colormunki as a backward step.


Well, to this day there are Professionals out there that just don't like the fact that Spectros (or the Software) are in the hands of enthusiasts for these price points... In reality, they have nothing to fear...

Really, the big nuisance of the Munki is mounting.. it will take time, that's all. Good time to be practicing your relaxation techniques...


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## michael tlv

Greetings

Ray and I joke that "experts" telling you this are likely the same people that are not confident in their own skill set. It is easier to scare away others with fear and doubt than to actually work to improve yourself.

Are the award winning photos because of the camera or the man behind the camera who understands his tools?

Regards


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## PE06MCG

michael tlv said:


> Greetings
> 
> On your own TV, speed is over rated. This is not a race to see how fast you can get it done. I'd just stick to the munki ... until you have doubts about its sensitivity in the really dark end of things.
> 
> Regards


Once again, many thanks and how refreshing it is to read your 'common sense' opinions.


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## Turbe

Turbe said:


> the Munki can have mounting "challenges".. contact RayJr for a ColorMunki mount.


Here's some info I Posted about the mounting HERE

Quick Comparison by RayJr - i1Pro and ColorMunki Spectro

Posted HERE


TomHuffman said:


> I was especially impressed by the fact that it did quite well even at relatively low light levels.













.


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## PE06MCG

Thanks for the references.

Interesting comments by Derek Smith as well on one of the forum posts you reference.

I am convinced, and how pleasing to find that ones 'gut feeling' that Xrite would not continue to sell a Spectro meter that was 'not suitable for purpose' was justified.

It may very well have been physically designed for use on flat Photos etc. but as you have shown it can overcome this disadvantage easily and be used for accurate LCD Display measurement.

As Michael says, it has very similar functional parts to the i1 Spectro.


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## Joel Barsotti

PE06MCG said:


> Thanks for the references.
> 
> Interesting comments by Derek Smith as well on one of the forum posts you reference.
> 
> I am convinced, and how pleasing to find that ones 'gut feeling' that Xrite would not continue to sell a Spectro meter that was 'not suitable for purpose' was justified.
> 
> It may very well have been physically designed for use on flat Photos etc. but as you have shown it can overcome this disadvantage easily and be used for accurate LCD Display measurement.
> 
> As Michael says, it has very similar functional parts to the i1 Spectro.



I'm not sure what post you're talking about precisely, but the munki spectro was always a great value.


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## PE06MCG

Joel Barsotti said:


> I'm not sure what post you're talking about precisely, but the munki spectro was always a great value.


Hi Joel,

It was meant to be complementary to Derek, apologies if it came across differently.

The reference was :

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1215746/colormunki-how-good-or-how-bad/60#post_18026316

which was a few posts down from the 'here' reference provided by Turbe previously.

Incidentally, the Colormunki Photo has now got an Xrite cashback offer in the UK repayable after purchase so its value for money has been enhanced further.


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## Turbe

I'm curious, how much is the cash back / final cost?

One of my UK users just reporting buying a used i1PRO Rev D Spectro Basic kit on the ebay uk site and awaiting its arrival... they can be found


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## PE06MCG

Turbe said:


> I'm curious, how much is the cash back / final cost?
> 
> One of my UK users just reporting buying a used i1PRO Rev D Spectro Basic kit on the ebay uk site and awaiting its arrival... they can be found


Xrite did this in UK when the D3 retail was originally launched.

Here is a typical reseller webpage:

https://www.morrisphoto.co.uk/ProductDetails~productID~7798~categoryid~203.html 

When it is received and evidence of purchase obtained (Invoice), the buyer claims direct to Xrite using the invoice as evidence ( hopefully the 'Claim here' bit opens in USA so you can see its content?)

The cash arrives within a week or so from Xrite.


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## Turbe

XRite did this for the Munki here in the States when they were released (Munki spectros for about $270US).. XRite also did it for the I1Pros when they did some product realignment...


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## PE06MCG

Turbe said:


> XRite did this for the Munki here in the States when they were released (Munki spectros for about $270US).. XRite also did it for the I1Pros when they did some product realignment...


The amount we pay is inclusive of the National Value Added Tax (currently 20%), I think you will pay a state sales tax of about 6% which may be added at time of sale?
If I try to import from USA the Customs slap an import tax on it so I finish up paying the same price.


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## Turbe

no, you wouldn't want to buy a new Munki here and ship oversees.. also X-Rite raised the retail price $100-$150 since they were initially released


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