# Hello....New Guy Here.......



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

I just want to say hello to everyone and hope everyone has a great Easter this weekend!

Anyhow......I have been trying to get Room EQ to work but I can't get it to work with my soundcard. I am using Windows 7 with a M-Audio delta 1010 audio interface. In the settings I choose the inputs and outputs accordingly. But I can't get REW to actually use those inputs and outputs. I take that back........I switched the output to a different output on the delta 1010. Then it worked. But when I switched back to my original outputs that I started with on the Delta 1010 everything just stopped working. Now none of the outputs on my delta 1010 work. Very wierd. I thought something had happened to my audio interface but everything seems fine. I checked all the outputs with Windows media player and everything is just fine. 

Am I doing something wrong or is this some sort of bug in REW. I've googled my problem several different ways but there isn't anything that I could find other than a Java/Mac problem. If anybody has any ideas about this problem it would be great to hear some feedback on this. I really would like to take some measurements.

Thanks,
Matt

*UPDATE*

I solved my own problem. I didn't realize I needed the latest beta version that supported Asio. Everything is in working order now. Now all I have to do is dive in to this somewhat intimidating manual now.

Wish me Luck!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Welcome to the Shack. :wave:


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks for the welcome............

And to let everybody know...............Please disregard my original post as far as my problem goes. I didn't realize I needed the new beta version. I didn't realize the previous versions didn't support asio. Everything is alright now.


----------



## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

Welcome to the Shack......:wave:


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks TC................

I'm hoping I can get some help with this. Providing that I calibrated everything correctly, which I hope I did, I took two measurements. One with for my sub. And the other of my two main Speakers. Now I'm looking at these graphs thinking I know what I'm looking at but that little voice in the back of my head is telling me I don't have a clue. Would it be possible for me to upload the .mdat file . Maybe someone can look at it and kinda explain briefly what this means to me. It would be much appreciated............


----------



## robbo266317 (Sep 22, 2008)

Welcome to the forum Matt and thanks for joining us here at HTS.

-Bill


----------



## Bowers (Mar 10, 2012)

Yes, upload the mdat file and I`ll have a look at it for you. Do you have a meassurment with the left side and right side by themselves also?


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Thanks Bowers.......Although I don't have independent left and right.......That doesn't mean that it can't be done. I will post them sometime tomorrow. 

Thanks again for your help,

Matt


----------



## Bowers (Mar 10, 2012)

??????


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm sorry for not responding and for keeping you hanging........Shortly after my last post I actually decided to upgrade my sub to the the Adam Sub8 subwoofer. I just couldn't take it anymore. I was using a Bose sub that came with a speaker set for computers. That thing was absolutely, incredibly horrible. I was waiting on the Adam sub to get here before I did the new measurements. It is suppose to be here tomorrow according to the estimated delivery date. As soon as that gets here and I get it set up, I will do the measurements and upload the .mdat file ASAP.


----------



## Bowers (Mar 10, 2012)

No worries! And congratulations with the new subwoofer. I guess that it will be far better than the bose sub..


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

"Post Deleted"


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Okay here we go. I took pics and also did a layout of the room. Which was done in Windows paint. Probably one of the worse layouts you'll probably ever encounter. The measurements are probably going to make your jaw drop. I took several measurements. The measurements are left & sub, right & sub, both & sub........Then did the same measurements without the sub. Total of 7 measurements which includes the soundcard measurement. Just as you see in the pictures I do have some DIY room absorbtion panels and some DIY bass traps. The room absorbtion are the green panels which are the Roxul sound proof installation roughly 2½" thick. In the corners & over my head is the Owens Corning 703 at 4" thick. 

For the measurements I am using a ECM8000 mic using the calibration file from the Home Theater Shack website. My sub's crossover is set at 85hz. My front speakers are the Mackie MR5's. I will be replacing those with the Adam A7x's in the near future. But for now the Mackies frequency response goes down to 60hz. As for the sub it's frequency response is 28hz - 150khz. Now I'm not sure if any of this is relevant. I just wanted to give you the most information that I can to help give you a clearer picture of what I am using and how everything is setup now.

Now here are the pictures of the room. Please excuse the mess and the hole in the door. My son did that when we were trying to move the mixing desk in. Everything is under construction right now. Also they aren't the clearest pics on the net. But I hope they will suffice.

*UPDATE* - I'm trying to upload the .mdat file but I keep getting this message. It's size is 35.6 Mb's so it's within the size limit. The error says - *"Your submission could not be processed because a security token was missing. If this occurred unexpectedly, please inform the administrator and describe the action you performed before you received this error. "*

Any clue on how to resolve this? As soon as I can get this solved I will upload ASAP.


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Okay I was only able to upload them seperately. Sorry about that. I kept getting those errors. But anyways here they are. Hopefully they work.


----------



## Bowers (Mar 10, 2012)

Hi, I`ll take a look at them sometime tihs weekend. But I have very little experience with pro equipment, so I might not be the one to give you very much input on what to do...


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Couldn’t see your graphs at first, but figured out that you have to scale the graph from -30 to +30 dB to see anything. I’d suggest doing the SPL calibration routine next time, if you didn’t. If you don’t have a SPL meter, just play the test tone at a comfortable level and tell REW that it’s 75 dB.

I only downloaded the first two, as there’s not much you can get with the others that you can’t extrapolate from the two full-range graphs.



Matthaynes said:


> I took two measurements. One with for my sub. And the other of my two main Speakers. Now I'm looking at these graphs thinking I know what I'm looking at but that little voice in the back of my head is telling me I don't have a clue.


The measurements aren’t entirely accurate since you’re using a generic calibration file, but the graphs show a wide honking hump in the midrange, disproportionately low bass levels, and nulls in bass response in the 250 and 90 Hz, range. What is your little voice telling you?

What is that console, a Mackie 24-8? If so, that’s a sweet unit. Our church used to have a 32-8 and I loved it. I know digital consoles are all the rage, but IMO there’s nothing more impressive than a sea of knobs! 

Regards, 
Wayne


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Wayne,

Thanks for that bit of information. Unfortunately I don't have a SPL meter. I guess I will try to get one soon. I went ahead and contacted West Caldwell Calibration Laboratories to try to get my mic individually calibrated. I'm am waiting for their response as we speak. When I get everything in order I will post back to make sure that I have everything setup properly before taking new measurements. So I guess at this point it's just a waiting game. 

And yes that is the Mackie 24-8. You are also right about those Mackie mixers thay are nice. I personally can't stand mixing with a mouse. I know that it's not a $60,000 Neve console but it serves my purpose well. Although I have been looking at that Rupert Neve Designs 5059 Summing mixer for some time now. And to tell you the truth I'm on the verge of adding that little betty to my signal chain. That's for sure.

Anyhow as soon as I get everything in working order I will post back. This time I'll make sure everything is right.

Thanks Wayne & Bowers, I will get back to you guys ASAP.


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

> Unfortunately I don't have a SPL meter. I guess I will try to get one soon.


As I noted, you don’t really need a SPL meter. You can just play the test tone at a comfortable level and tell REW that it’s 75 dB. And actually, the only reason you need a calibrated mic is if you intend to do some main-channel equalizing. If that’s the case you definitely need accurate measurements, but otherwise it might not be worth the expense.

Our band uses a Mackie 16-4, a dandy little mixer. I’ve used a number of Mackie mixers over the years and have never had any issues with them. :T

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

okay...gotcha. I'll just do without the SPL meter and do as instructed. But I still would Like to have that mic calibrated properly for future uses. Because i do plan on using Equalization for my mains because of the size of the room. I think I would have to completely cover the was floors and ceilings to get this room right. So I was going to EQ it. But I just want to try to get to a point to where I don't have to go to extremes with the EQ to get it right. I was hoping that I could take some measurements with REW to help me get within a ballpark then polish with a little EQ. I have already decided to get corner bass traps and stack from top to bottom. These bass traps I have now I will keep in place but aren't really curing the problem I keep hearing. 

As it stands right now I can play a 1 khz sine wave through my system. Shift my head over maybe 8" - 12" and the sine wave almost disappears. Literally!!!!!!!!!.........That's a tiny sweet spot and a huge phasing problem. Or so I think that's what is causing that. It's unbelievable the drop I hear by doing so. That to me is really a bad problem. If I'm wrong and on the wrong track here........what would cause the sound to almost disappear like that? I mean it's really impressive actually. I've never encountered something like that before. Well to those extremes I mean. I just kept leaning over and over again because I was so baffled. My daughter walked in the room and even asked me if I was alright. So as that situation stands my daughter thinks i'm going senile and losing my hearing. After what I was hearing I have to almost agree.:coocoo:


----------



## JohnM (Apr 11, 2006)

That is normal, any pure tone played in an enclosed space will have regions where the tone becomes almost or entirely inaudible, it is caused by the direct sound from the speaker combining with the various reflected sounds from the room's surfaces, different path lengths mean the phases of the signals combining will be different and can cancel each other out. The higher the frequency, the shorter the distance between loud and quiet regions.


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Hi John and thanks for joining in.........

That's exactly what I have to resolve. I can't have that happening when trying to do a mixdown. None of my mixes would ever translate properly outside of this room. You can't mix what you can't hear. My biggest fear for this room is that I will end up having to turn this place into a padded cell. At that point I'll just need to get a hold of a straight jacket, go crazy and call it home.:yikes:


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

Hey Matt,

I’ve seen that situation myself, but as John pointed out, this phenomenon is specific to pure fundamental tones. It isn’t an issue in your situation unless you’re mixing specific-frequency sine waves. Fortunately, notes from musical instruments and voices are a rich mixture of fundamentals and harmonics, and on top of that you’re dealing with numerous notes at any given moment, so this will never be an issue. 

Regards,
Wayne


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

So....okay.......so this is something that happens with single frequency "sine waves"............But if a room is treated properly, meaning professionally for this instance, wouldn't that fix the "phasing" issue? Now don't get me wrong, I'm really trying to learn something here. 

For Extreme "hypothetical" example, If I go To..........Let's say.......Columbia Records and sit in their studio and had them play a 1 khz sine wave ..........Would I get the same effect sitting in the "sweet Spot"?

If not..........How come?

Also knowing that a room size will dramatically vary results..........Isn't the base principle still the same? 

So as of now what I'm gathering, I might have to move 2,3 or 5 feet depending on room size and dimension but I will always get the same result with single frequency Sine waves regardless of what room I may be in and regardless of how well it's treated................


----------



## Wayne A. Pflughaupt (Apr 13, 2006)

You’re not likely to get good answers to questions like these from a forum for home theater enthusiasts. Probably best to present them on message boards for recording professionals, like TapeOp or Gearslutz. 

Regards, 
Wayne


----------



## Matthaynes (Oct 6, 2012)

Thank you John........I'm not much of an internet guy and I don't do very well with searching either. I love making music and I'm really digging the mixdown side of things. I really hear more than I can click with a mouse. I may be a little old fashioned but at the end of the day, that's what makes it all worth while. From cutting that Hi shelf up 0.5 decibels on that mandolin or taking that parametric and notching out that hair raising honk on tha bass. I've always said music is an incurable disease. I'm living proof.

I will take your advice and look up those other places. Hopefully someone their can help me get to the results I am hopelessly trying to find. Thank-You for everyone's (and I do mean everyone's) time John, Bowers, and the others. I did learn a thing or two here and will be taking that with me (I hope you don't mind). Once again Thank-You for your time and I hope to chat with you in the future on the flip side.

Matt


----------

