# Balanced vs Unbalanced



## ambesolman (Apr 25, 2011)

Unless I'm mistaken, unbalanced speaker connections are simply bare wire or connected to spades, etc.. I've seen the inputs on amps for unbalanced. What are the benefits of one over the other? Or is it just another adapter, like a spade, that attaches to bare wire? Thanks in advance!


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If you have not already have a look here for info on the differences.


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## ambesolman (Apr 25, 2011)

tonyvdb said:


> If you have not already have a look here for info on the differences.


Huh. Makes more sense to me now, thanks. Not sure why I thought it was a speaker connection. So, from what your other thread said, balanced connections are primarily for when your preamp/AVR is more than 25' from your amp. I know this is pretty simplistic so just correct me if I'm wrong.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Balanced simply put is just a better shielded cable nothing less nothing more. Its better suited for longer distance runs because the signal voltage used is also a bit higher (up to around 2.5volts) where unbalanced usually peaks at about 1 volt. but Ive known people including myself that have had no issue running unbalanced lines for over 50' without issues.


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## ambesolman (Apr 25, 2011)

Well thanks again for clearing all that up for me. It's great having these forums to come to where there's plenty of people with more knowledge than me.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

no problem, believe me i am still learning things as well. It never ends  thats why we are here :T


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## MagnusAtom (Oct 23, 2012)

Depending on your gear, balance output may seem to be more sensitive than unbalanced, that will vary in impressions when you do direct comparisons. 

You can check that out with specs on your gear, input sensitivity/output sensitivity.


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## Sevenfeet (Feb 2, 2009)

Balanced is usually preferred, but it's always on expensive equipment and the cables are more expensive too (though I've never priced Monoprice since I have no balanced gear). If you have quality components and you can do it, why not?


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

I like to use balanced where my gear supports it. The idea is improved noise rejection, as explained. Only about 1/3 of my gear supports it, though, and it's not a top priority for me in making a purchase, but I welcome it when it is available.

Every system is unique. "System" includes house, wiring, appliances, local power distribution, RF sources.... all kinds of fun stuff creating and conducting and radiating noise. When & where you'll benefit from using a balanced connection is hard to predict. I figure if you have the option and can use it cheaply, just do it.


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## MagnusAtom (Oct 23, 2012)

AudiocRaver said:


> I like to use balanced where my gear supports it. The idea is improved noise rejection, as explained. Only about 1/3 of my gear supports it, though, and it's not a top priority for me in making a purchase, but I welcome it when it is available.
> 
> Every system is unique. "System" includes house, wiring, appliances, local power distribution, RF sources.... all kinds of fun stuff creating and conducting and radiating noise. When & where you'll benefit from using a balanced connection is hard to predict. I figure if you have the option and can use it cheaply, just do it.


Agreed. 

I do feel that using balanced cables will give you less 'coloration' in theory', simply because there's more noise in the unbalanced. 
Some folks use cables as form of EQ for their system. I'm not too sure if that's the best idea, but it happens. Scientifically, adjusting/moving your speakers by an inch will 'change' the sound of your system, and there goes your 'made to measure' EQ with the cables. 

So get the fullest value of your system by using decent XLR cables, re-look the room when you feel the sound differs for your liking, but get the basics right first:
Speakers has got to fit the room, size, technical design... Amps will need to match the speakers, and your ears. Amps need to match impedance of speakers, to provide you will a justifiable response from the speakers, usually most expensive investment. 

On another school of thought, just set up the room just the way you like it. Your money, your ears.


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## the_rookie (Sep 30, 2008)

I was looking at Crowns site, they were saying not to use XLR saying for the connections.



> 1. To prevent possible short circuits, wrap or otherwise insulate exposed loudspeaker cable or cable connectors.
> 2. Do not use connectors that might accidentally tie conductors together
> when making or breaking the connection (for example, a standard, 1/4-inch stereo phone plug).
> 3. Never use connectors that could be plugged into AC power sockets. Accidental AC input will be an electrifying experience for your equipment. But you will fi nd out real quick if your speakers are any good at 60 Hz!
> ...


Thats from a PDF from Crowns site.


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## ambesolman (Apr 25, 2011)

Thanks for everyone's input.


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## Kal Rubinson (Aug 3, 2006)

the_rookie said:


> I was looking at Crowns site, they were saying not to use XLR saying for the connections..................................Thats from a PDF from Crowns site.


Are you sure that this is not all about speaker, rather than line level, connections?


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## MagnusAtom (Oct 23, 2012)

the_rookie said:


> I was looking at Crowns site, they were saying not to use XLR saying for the connections.
> 
> Thats from a PDF from Crowns site.


They were referring to speaker cables with XLR, which are not recommended. Since the gauge is not thick enough, and XLRs for Interconnects only transmit low signal voltage, they are right to say that.

Yes, don't use XLR for speaker (passive) cables. 
You can use them for active speakers, but then you won't be needing a crown amp after that.


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## AudiocRaver (Jun 6, 2012)

the_rookie said:


> I was looking at Crowns site, they were saying not to use XLR saying for the connections.


Thanks for the clarification. I was actually thinking line-level cables, not speaker cables. I agree and would not use XLR connectors on speaker cables, for the reasons stated above.

It may seem hard to believe, but I know of someone who used A.C. power connectors for homemade P.A. speaker boxes and cables. That's right, you can guess what they got plugged into. A split second of very loud hum, then smoke. Better to stick with connectors that are somewhat unique to the speaker connection world, like bananas or Speakon, in my opinion.

My earlier comments still stand for line level signals and cables. Thanks again for helping us get more specific and clear up the confusion.


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## planetnine (Mar 3, 2009)

Latching XLR for mic and line-level audio, Neutrik "Speakon" for speaker cables 

XLR is really only an advantage if you're taking line-level signals more than a few metres. Of course they're no good unless your gear has balanced XLR audio connections -wiring an adapter up to merely convert the connection will only help if the cable just happens to be better stuff over a long run.

There are RCA to balanced XLR conversion boxes, but you'll need to spend a bit to make sure they're on par with the quality of your system's audio. For long runs, digital conversion is also worth a look...


>


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## mp5475 (Jan 10, 2013)

Hi all, I already posted my question but have not got an answer. I vaguely think my question maybe related to this.

My question. I have onkyo 709 and axiom epic 80. Plan to add pair of crown xls1000 to power the fronts and the center. On amazon, for the crown, one of the reviewers said this

"Crown accepts 1.4 volts input, which Onkyo 809 receiver was unable to provide. Onkyo could only pump out 0.2 volts, which is a shame. So, later I had to buy ART CleanBox Pro to bump up the output level of Onkyo 809. So, anyone interested in running this amp in HT setup must also buy ART CleanBox Pro, otherwise you won't be able to drive it adequately."

From my understanding from this thread, he is incorrect. I don't need to add Art clean box since power amp and the receiver is going to be next to each other, right? Or am I completely misunderstanding this

Thanks in advance for any help


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## JerryLove (Dec 5, 2009)

tonyvdb said:


> Balanced simply put is just a better shielded cable nothing less nothing more.


That's not accurate.

A balanced signal path uses an inversion to reject noise. You can invert then re-invert and sum the original waveform, or a neutral, it doesn't much matter and I don't recall which the standard is. 

If course this assumes that the gear actually uses the balanced connector. It's also possible to simply reject data from the 3rd pin and send/receive an unbalanced signal. 



> Its better suited for longer distance runs because the signal voltage used is also a bit higher (up to around 2.5volts) where unbalanced usually peaks at about 1 volt.


Yes. The standard for balanced connections is higher voltage and (as explained above) noise rejection. Though you can convert plugs between balanced and unbalanced. The result is -6db (or +6db depending on direction).

Because I use pro-crossovers and amps on one speaker set, I use RCA/XLR converters to plug the pre-outs from my Integra AVR into my Behringer crossover. Obviously: that connection is at unbalanced voltages and is, in fact, unbalanced (as there's no signal sent for noise rejection).

This also defines the difference between a fully balanced signal (which does not perform inversion until the final amp) and a non-fully balanced signal (which performs inversion when entering / existing the system)


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## planetnine (Mar 3, 2009)

mp5475 said:


> Hi all, I already posted my question but have not got an answer. I vaguely think my question maybe related to this.
> 
> My question. I have onkyo 709 and axiom epic 80. Plan to add pair of crown xls1000 to power the fronts and the center. On amazon, for the crown, one of the reviewers said this
> 
> ...



If this voltage discrepancy does exist, then you will need something to apply gain to the signal (multiply it, increase it) however short or long the run is. 

Balancing (turning 2-wire into 3-wire balanced) has more of an advantage for long runs as it is better at "noise rejection". 

In a balanced output the two signal wires (hot + cold) are electrically isolated, "floating" from the screen and earth. Because of their proximity and the twist of their "lay", any noise will affect both conductors equally. The balanced input that they feed in to simply looks at the difference between them and any induced noise signal will cancel-out. This allows runs of hundreds of metres with very little noise pickup. 

Balanced outputs and inputs tend to use the higher (+4dBu) nominal level too, which helps because noise pickup will be relatively smaller to the larger signal, ie higher "signal to noise ratio" .

>


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