# REW and Audyssey



## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

I am pretty confused right now on REW's real PURPOSE. I get that you can take all kinds of measurements and determine useful information of your room and speaker response. My question is: What do you do after that? What if you cant move your speakers or treat the room and EQ is really the only option?

This is where the Audessey thing comes in. Looking at my current choice of amp/preamp (outlaw 975/1025) I see that i have 0 options for actual room equalization. All I can do is set up the crossovers per channel.

Audessey seems to be its own self-contained software room EQ, and makes it so that REW measurement is unnecessary.


does audessey come with everything necessary to measure or does REW still serve a purpose?
Can I use REW for measurement with my UMM-6 mic and then transfer EQ settings to audessey?
is it better to just use what comes with the receiver in terms of audessey?
What full 7.2 EQ options even exist in the market, and how expensive are they?

I'd like to add one thing to this. I have a budget of 1200 for a receiver, and a future budget of 500 for this equalization stuff.

Is this unrealistic for a 7.1 channel parametric EQ? is it even worth it to EQ for that cheap? Am I reaching for something really expensive (multichannel eq) and not realizing that it actually costs a whole bunch?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hi, to answer your questions:
1) For the most partr if you only have a receiver and no external amplification Audessey is a great tool. REW is good to help with placement of the sub and blending it into the room and the mains correctly.

2) No, you cant transfer the readings to Audessey

3) yes

4) if you go with a receiver or pre/pro with pre outs you can run external amps on each channel and then add an EQ between each output and the amp.
Cost is dependent on many things but Emotiva makes a multi channel amp thats very good for well under $1000. EQs can be found on ebay used for example the Yamaha YDP2006 for around $150-200


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

The YDP you listed is a stereo/mono parametric EQ. that means that to eq the entire system my cost would quickly rise above $500, even on a used market, for multi-channel parametric EQ.

My minimum requirement for this setup is per-channel crossover. My current receiver choices are Outlaw975+Outlaw 1025, Marantz SR5007, Pioneer Elite SC61 or 63. I dont know what denon/onkyo/yamaha receivers are good. I am no longer doing business with Emotiva due to a bad customer service experience.

Would you recommend simply using Audyssey, the included audyssey mic, and the audyssy enabled receiver? From what i understand, these measurements are not terribly accurate and often a manual calibration is much better, especially considering i have the UMM-6.

Would you recommend i simply go with a cheaper receiver like the 5007 or pioneer that "gets the job done" or is there any merit in going for something like the outlaw? my speakers are not great and my room will always limit me because I dont honestly care about the speakers taht much. I have very nice headphones that I listen to music on, and movies/gaming is only a casual interest for me.

It looks like I can forget abotu parametric EQ altogether, but now i'm just wondering what kind of a receiver I should be aiming for (minimum gets the job done or a bit more pricey and why to go for more pricey)


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

I can assure you that with Audessey the only channels you would need to EQ more would be the mains and the sub. Audessey is more than capable with doing a very good job on the rest.
This Onkyo 809 is even better than the ones you listed.


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

That didnt make much sense to me, sorry.

Why would I still need to EQ the mains and sub if audyssey is meant to EQ all the channels anyways? and by that logic, why would i not just EQ only the sub? or just not EQ anything? Either I should EQ and get a nearly perfect response from everything or just not bother and ensure that it sounds "good enough for my purposes", which it technically already does except in the bass department.

And do you have any recommendations for receivers this side of 1200? I'm leaning towards the 5007 and just leaving it uncalibrated except for SPL, or at least trying the Audyssey stuff and leaving it alone after that.

In my current small room (10.5x10.5x14) it will be impossible to get good sound anyways, and since this is not permanent, i am not going to invest in any sort of room correction. But later i can at least do a manual calibration by ear/REW, measure, do an Audyssey calibration, measure, and of course compare the two.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Your surround channels are fare less important to the sound stage than your mains and sub. When you run REW you only do the mains than the sub and then both together anyhow you dont do the surround channels at the same time. Its much more crucial to get the sub and the mains to give a seamless front soundstage.
That Onkyo 809 normally sells for over $1500


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

I should mention, I need this for purely audio. this is used 100% with a computer, and will never, ever see a video stream. It will get pure audio over HDMI and that is it. I literally need a single audio input that can go to 7.2 output and decode DTS and Dolby along with all the other formats. None of these fancy features and junk mean anything to me or make any difference.

The minimum requirement I have is per-channel crossover setting, as my fronts and rears need help in that area. my subwoofer is OK for now, but may be replaced with a passive/dual woofer design and DSP based amp (or amp+BFD or something at the very maximum).

I'm not after a big fancy home theater receiver. I just need the audio decoding capability.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

If thats the case then this Onkyo 709 would work just as well and has all you need for less.
It has Audessey Multi EQ XT (the second from the top)


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

I still dont get how having a 7.2 channel system, 2 channels driven, is better for audio than having a 7.2 channel system, ALL channels driven. That is what the outlaw combo does. What makes this better than the outlaw combo? The outlaw combo has 7 individual amp channels, it doesnt bleed power off of 2 amplifiers. This onkyo has 2 dedicated amplifiers and uses them to feed all the rest of the channels.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

For what you save in money on the 709 you can ad external amps to the front two channels and never hear any difference. I highly doubt the Outlaw is truly better in any aspect over the 709 and has less features and does not use Audessey. The onkyo 709 is capable of driving better then 90 watts per channel all channels driven without issue and does have dedicated amps for all 7 channels.


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

from the few reviews and tests i found, the 709 and 809 both tried to do all channels driven and ahrdly got close to 70 watts per channel. As I said, I have no interest anymore in audyssey or those kinds of features. I'd sooner EQ just my subwoofer with a DSP amp or something once I have speakers worth EQing. The outlaw was designed with only sound quality in mind and the onkyo doesnt even use a good toroidal transformer.

To me, the outlaw is a much better option where pure audio is concerned. Although I might not get some ridiculous junk like 3d/4k passthrough, I dont see how getting a 800 dollar receiver and trying to add external amplification is any better than simply buying the 500 dollar receiver and a great 7 channel amp to begin with.

And I'm not going to bother with audyssey. It either should do a fantastic job, allow me to manually configure an EQ curve, or just stay out of the picture. I'd end up not using it and have a receiver with hundreds of completely utterly useless features. This is for a computer, I dont need any network stuff or phone stuff. I do want at least decent sound quality and a nice looking form factor.

Buying a HUGE receiver and then another 5 channel amp is not very space concious either. And no where on the entire onkyo website for the product do i see anythign about individual per-channel crossover settings, which is a mandatory feature.

There just isnt any good case for the onkyo. At that point i'd sooner get some 250 dollar pioneer model, or even a 500 dollar one if I really wanted to save that much money and be left over with a bunch of useless features and empty space inside the receiver.


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## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Personally i think that choice of Receivers are a matter of taste.

I was reccomended to buy a Denon, heard it and didn't like at all, tried the Yamaha and never looked back, totally personal choice.

Can you get the receivers that fall in to your budget, and ideally home demo them. Can be a hassle but at leasrt you get want you like.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

What speakers are you planning to use? even 70 watts per channel (and the 709 or 809 do get better bench test results than that) is Plenty of power to drive most good quality speakers to more than reference levels. Your getting way to caught up in the numbers and not listening to reason or facts. If you want to spend $1200 then go ahead but your not getting "Better quality sound" than what I have suggested. The Onkyo 609 ( the lesser model then the two mentioned) bench tested here, did 85 watts per channel all channels driven. The 709 and 809 would do even better.


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

Yes, this willbe connected 100% via computer, no other components will be used. I doubt i'll even use it for video, and if I do, it will be video output to a monitor that switches to video output to a projector or something. And that is something my graphics card (and in the future, multiple cards) will be capable of.

As far as audio goes, the outlaw doesnt need multichannel inputs for me, I just need HDMI LPCM from the computer, preferably up to 7.2 channels depending on the source. All of my media is either streamed or downloaded, so apart from games i'm only using regular old DTS and such. And if the outlaw can do a 5.1/7.1 downmix to stereo, I'll be pretty much sold.

As nice as the audyssey features are, I'd sooner go with a combo that does pure audio performance than to pass my signal through a bunch of DSP and muck it up. Either the speakers I buy sound good or they dont, its not a gradient of quality for me like it is with headphones.

On a basic level, i'm simply replacing a broken receiver. If this gets me by for the next few years and can be replaced with another 500 dollar processor when it becomes obsolete,id sooner do that than to have a huge feature-rich receiver that i'll never even utilize 10% of its capabilities.

If it could be a single box with HDMI input and multichannel RCA outputs, i'd sooner even get that (as long as it can decode multiple surround formats).


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm currently using just pioneer FS52 as rears, polk tsi200 as mains (not good), pioneer c22 center, and dayton titanic mk III subwoofer.

Short term, when space provides, im switching fronts and rears around. Long term, i'm going to have all those as rear or rearSurround and using front left/right as someting like Klipsch RF7-II, paradigm S8, or similar. Whatever sounds good when i go to a store to demo it, basically.

I'd like yuo to understand that between the onkyo, SR5007, and outlaw, and possibly even a 300 dollar HK budget model, I'll probably never notice any sound quality difference. I'm using an AVR235 right now and it sounds more or less fine despite the terrible measurement. My headphones are used for any music listening that I CARE about, and the speakers are just for casual stuff (video games and downloaded movies).

I'm definitely not buying any refurbished model receiver, I'm buying new and at a good price. So knowing that, I do feel more comfortable going with the outlaw model than the onkyo. ive never seen or used an onkyo product (or any receiver except my parents' 2000 dollar yamaha with horrible bose speakers) so its not like i know what i'm doing in terms of choices.

This will be a one time purchase to fix a broken HK receiver thats getting the job done just fine. It needs to have that adjustable crossover, which as I understand can happen in just about any receiver that has Audyssey MultiEQxt.

I looked at the manual for the SR5007 and found that the bass crossover can be adjusted to 40, 60, 80,90,100,110,120 etc PER CHANNEL. This is kind of what I need, but I'd ideally like a tiny bit more resolution.

The outlaw does 40-150 and 200 in 10hz steps (after 150 it jumps to 200). The outlaw also has a 1/24 octave low pass filter and a 1/12 octave high pass filter. This is not even mentioned by marantz.

the marantz is 850 ish and has the features I need, plus audyssey just incase I want to screw around with it. For crossover steps, although it is somewhat more limited, it does have the ones i need (80-90hz ish).

For onkyo, i've only heard that unless you are going with their extremely high end models, they arent any better or worse than other models in their range and personally I dont really like its looks.

To be perfectly honest, if I could have a box with a single HDMI input and multichannel outputs that could decode all of the latest audio formats, that plus an amp would be FAR preferable to buying even the outlaw (assuming it is less expensive). Just a tiny box that has adjustable crossover and thats about it.

The onkyo models you linked are all fairly ugly to me, and that alone stops me from getting them. I really dont like that look. The pioneer elite models and marantz look nice. Denons and yamahas look nice. But thats all I have to go off of apart from their sterling reputation. And obviously, you get out what you put in with diminishing returns on investment. So i'm looking to put in about 1200 tops and get out something that JUST processes my multichannel HDMI audio and can have an adjustable crossover per channel.

Klipsch speakers will easily play down at 40hz, polk tsi200 get down to 66 relatively flat but are horrible with bass accentuation below 80hz, so their crossover would be significantly higher. Pioneer FS52 I have no idea because ive never been able to play test tones or sweeps through my rears and actually know what frequency was playing.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

The 709 and 809 do offer individual crossover adjustments, its standard in all mid to high end receivers. As well as adjustable high pass filter on the sub. 
Buying refurbished from Accessories4less is as good (even better) than new. Many of the receivers sold have been repaired in the factory and or may never have even been used. I personally have bought from them as well as many many other members without issues.
Audessey can be bypassed and you then have access to all the individual EQ adjustments for manual control however you dont get the full advantage of room correction this way as you cant adjust and time delays or phase that Audessey does when run correctly.


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

I get free shipping via prime from amazon for a lot of stuff, so if anything i'd be going through amazon. That way even if I dont like the product or if something was wrong with it, i can return it easily. I dont like buying form online retailers and limit myself to only a few different merchants.

Right now my biggest urge/gut instinct is to go with the Marantz SR5007. The 6007 seems like its only marginally better with a couple features i'll probably not use (dynamic something or other) and the 7007 is out of my budget.

The Onkyo are horrendously ugly, as are the NAD models. This is going to be literally on my desk sitting next to me, its not going in some AV cabinet, so aesthetics are a big deal. The 6007 has prime shipping and the 5007 comes close to the 6007 in price because its not free shipping.

Im willing to consider denon and yamaha as their receivers also look nice but onkyo is just too hideous for me to consider. I hate the look.

I am leaning towards the 5007/6007 because i'll prbably not notice the sound quality difference, i MIGHT like audyssey but if i dont i can turn it off, I can adjust my bass crossover per channel, and it will be more future resilient than the outlaw combo, assuming I want to switch it from pure audio interface to actual home theater duty.

I'm not buying refurbished regardless of how many people have had good luck. Its just not something I do or have any desire to do. i know its a better deal, but if something goes wrong i'll be left holding a receipt for a fat wad of cash and wondering if something went wrong because I went refurbished. I'd rather take that out of the equation.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok, Im going to sugest another option then. Have you looked at the Sherwood/Newcastle R972? Its being blown out at Accessories4less (Brand new with 3 year warranty) It uses Trinnov room EQ software thats absolutely stunning if done right. I have one. It was a $1800 receiver.
If your looking for a top notch audio receiver this is impossible to beat. It just is a little finicky getting set up as trinnov is very particular. as it messures the room in 3 dimensions with a 4 capsule microphone.


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

I'm sorry, but I will be buying from amazon or from a brick and mortar store. I do not like making online purchases and I will not be buying from accessories4less despite the price they can offer. I know i'm being paranoid but i'd rather be safe than sorry.

I also dont buy from third party sellers on amazon unless they have a very high rating both in stars and in quantity (multiple thousands of high ratings).

I'm sure it is a great receiver. But please stop suggesting accessories4less. If you have to link to a product, link to its product page.


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## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Man, this guy is hard to please! On here and AVS forum he is asking for help, but rejecting all or most of the help provided.

To the OP: it seems you know what you want, why are you bothering these nice folks and being short with them when they take the time out of their day to offer help??


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## Nerys64 (Mar 17, 2013)

I dont understand how i'm being short. I asked a few simple questions about the purpose of Audyssey and those questions were answered. i let TonyVDB know that I will not be buying from anyone but amazon if its online, or perhaps a brick and mortar store. Thats just protecting my money, as it is very difficult for me to come by and I do not plan on having this purchase "go bad" after a small amount of time.

I would be open to an internal sound card going to an external amp, I'd be fine with a full on external receiver that I can send audio to from my PC. Seeing as how internal PC components generally go bad after 2-3 years from obsolecence, I dont plan on going the internal route, despite it being cheaper.

I dont know if youve gotten through the whole discussion or just read the last few posts. Heres a quick recap.


TonyVDB has informed me that audyssey, wether i use it or not, is a worthwhile receiver feature rather than simply not even have the option available
I can either like Audyssey or not lik eit and turn it off. Either way the actual difference in sound quality will be lost on me with my current speakers
I can go internal sound card -> external amp/receiver for about 800-1200 bucks depending on receiver
I will not notice the difference between a 600, 800, and 1200 dollar amplifier
I am looking at the Audyssey enabled SR5007 as a finalizezd purchase option
I am open to denon, yamaha, and pioneer models as they will perform as expected, probably have EQ/multi channel crossover settings, and are aesthetically pleasing to me
I will buy from amazon
All help so far has been VERY MUCH APPRECIATED. Seriously. It has really gotten me on the right track despite it not seeming that way.
Again, SR5007 is what I am currently considering for 850. SR6007 is 1100 with free shipping for now.
This product will be used 100% with the computer and forseeably never anywhere else. An internal sound card is great for this reason, but an external receiver gives me much greater computer upgrade flexibility because I wont be upgrading the receiver, i can keep regular connectivity via either multichannel output or s/pdif or hdmi from my computer, and an internal sound card will become obsolete much quicker than an AVR will.


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