# Looking for a Blu-ray player? What U need 2 Know!



## Wayde (Jun 5, 2006)

Why Blu-ray?

You want Hi-def video for your HDTV so you should also get a player with hi-def audio. The hi-def audio is the controversial part that is difficult because very few BD players on the market today are decoding or bitstreaming the high res audio formats. 

Hi-res audio

*Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD, DTS-HD, DTS-HD Master Audio.*
These are the new so-called lossless formats, they’re all either sampled at higher bit-rates than a CD, making them the equivalent to DVD-Audio in fidelity, or compressed in a lossless codec, meaning there is no loss of fidelity due to the software used to compress for storage on disc.

*PCM 5.1.* Is a completely lossless (same as CD audio quality) audio format. What was cool about Blu-ray is the extra space so it could add a PCM audio track. 

PCM = Pulse Code Modulation. It’s a method of digitizing a sine wave that was invented around the time of radar in the 1930s.

All the player can decode PCM and send it via analog (RCA 5.1) to your receiver. 

*The trouble with most Blu-ray players: *

Most Blu-ray player don’t decode or bitstream the new lossless audio codecs! And that sucks!

If a player were capable of decoding the new lossless audio codecs it should have analog 5.1 outputs in the back and any receiver with analog 5.1 inputs could receive the audio as decoded by the player.

This is the way to not have to spend a LOT of extra money buying a new receiver. Although looking for one that can decode is a tall order today. The only one I know of is the upcoming Panasonic DMP-BD50 and the Sony Blu-ray players that have been announced that will be out this summer.

_On the other hand…_

A player capable of bitstreaming the lossless audio codecs can only send it digitally via HDMI 1.3a (or better) to an A/V receiver with an HDMI 1.3a (or better) input that can decode the lossless audio codecs. There are several receivers on the market today that fit that bill but they’re all very new. The most cost effective today are the new receivers by Onkyo. You could get one that does the job for around $500.

That means at the time of writing this there are very few combinations of A/V products capable of giving its customers access to the new lossless codecs on a Blu-ray disc. 

The only option you have are a few Blu-ray players (at the time of writing this) that can bitstream – your options are limited to:

*Denon DVD-2500BTCI $999
Panasonic DMP-BD30 $499
Pioneer Elite BDP95FD $999
Samsung BD-P1400 $499*

My own opinion for what it’s worth…

When bitstreaming, I personally don’t see any step up when spending the extra money on the $999 models. The unit isn’t decoding so its DACs are irrelevant. It’s just sending bits to your receiver for so I really don’t care if it’s a radio shack breadboard with a few ICs dangling from it. I’m of the bits-is-bits school. But then, I’m really not a dedicated audiophile.

I hope this helps. I gotta get up so I can’t spend time proof-reading right now. Feel free to ask any questions here and I’ll get on it.


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Good info Wayde... thanks for posting!


----------



## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

You'll definately want to do your homework before buying any of the new BD players, but here is a guide that might help you narrow your search.

http://www.idoblu.co.uk/page2 Blu-ray Players.html


----------



## Wayde (Jun 5, 2006)

It could have been better I suppose but it's a good starting point. I've been reading more and more people on the Shack are interested in Blu-ray and with good reason. I always felt HD DVD was superior but now that the war is over I'd like to see Blu-ray more mainstream so we get more and more movies in the format.


----------



## dieselpower1966 (Nov 26, 2007)

so what I read is that the Sony play station is actually the best blu-ray player available today albeit with a few quirks. 
the page that hddummy posted a link to confirms this? or did I read that incorrectly?

dieselpower1966


----------



## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

dieselpower1966 said:


> so what I read is that the Sony play station is actually the best blu-ray player available today albeit with a few quirks.


It consumes a lot of power (>200 watts), fans are noisy, does not output advanced audio codecs as raw bitstream and requires an oddball Bluetooth RF remote control. No analog audio 7.1 or even 5.1 output -- just multichannel linear PCM via HDMI or legacy lossy codecs via S/PDIF (optical Toslink). Plus it does not look like a normal audio/video component.

Other than that it is great -- considering its $399 price versus what you pay for the other BD players that can do profile 1.1 or even future 2.0 (BD-Live -- ethernet) with their prices. It can decode lossless Dolby TrueHD and send that losslessly, using multichannel linear PCM, to a HDMI audio input capable AVR.


----------



## aerodude73 (Nov 8, 2007)

Wayde said:


> Why Blu-ray?
> 
> You want Hi-def video for your HDTV so you should also get a player with hi-def audio. The hi-def audio is the controversial part that is difficult because very few BD players on the market today are decoding or bitstreaming the high res audio formats.
> 
> ...


Are there are any Blu-Ray Player/RECORDERS out there?


----------



## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

maybe as a drive in an HTPC...but not stand alone.


----------



## mekkanic (Nov 26, 2007)

bobgpsr said:


> Fans are noisy


Actually it is really quiet....


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

Agree... I do not hear a thing from the fan on my 80GB unit. 

I have a Universal MX-980 that controls all but power on and off, which is not really needed anyway. It powers on when you insert a disc and when I eject I power off then.

It does not fit in the rack well ... doesn't look normal, but it's pretty dark anyway in my HT room when watching a movie. My eyes are not looking at the equipment anyway. But for a shared room, like a great room or living room... it would not look right to me.

I have no idea if it would really be considered the best or not.


----------



## Wayde (Jun 5, 2006)

PS3 generates crazy heat though. I had one for awhile and stepped behind my HT sytem and felt the exhaust. Man it was hot. 

I know it's a very good BD player but personally I looked for an actual player. The lossless codecs were the most important thing to me and i wanted DTS HD MA which as far as I know is the one that PS3 can't do (yet).


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

I really would rather have a regular player as well. I am hoping oppo will come through reasonably.


----------



## htaddikt (May 14, 2007)

You and me both. There is a rumor (another one) that BD prices are still quite high, creating a deterrent against a tide of players made in China. Maybe Sony and it's buds want to keep reaping in the profits. 
Oppo would be an excellent choice.. hope they get it. 
Wish they had done a duo player, bet it would have fewer problems.


----------



## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

I thought about the Sammy dual player, or even building an HTPC centered around LG's PC super drive that plays everything, HD DVD, Bluray... but I couldn't justify the expense seeing I already have two HD DVD players and PS3.

I'll also concur that I am not bothered at all by fan noise. Then again my one equipment rack is around 12 feet from were I sit.

It does lack some audio perks that some other dedicate players can do. To some that is a deal breaker, to other's it's not, so it's a matter of preference.

The PS3 also plays DVD-Rs and +Rs flawlessly, and add in SACD as well. I like the comfort knowing it is probably the most update-able player out there, and then there's the minor  fact that it plays games too! Probably the biggest thing that will cause me to never swap my PS3 is the almost 1 terabyte of drive space I now have and soon will be adding more. I know some people get a funny look on their face and say 'You can't just walk over and put a disc in?' and yeah that's true, but I like putting TV series on the drives and then I can just pick and chose whatever I feel like watching whenever I feel like watching it. So far I haven't seen any dedicated players that have that capability.

In the end I guess it's a matter of what a person wants more, but seeing BD prices are still up there (and I have actually seen some go UP) the PS3 is still a very good value and a powerhouse as well. It also upconverts video from the external drives to 1080p.

Did I mention you can play games on it too?


----------



## superchad (Mar 7, 2008)

Does the future Panasonic model or any do 7.1 multi channel RCA outputs, 5.1 isnt good enough for those of us with larger rooms.


----------



## mekkanic (Nov 26, 2007)

Wayde said:


> PS3 generates crazy heat though. I had one for awhile and stepped behind my HT sytem and felt the exhaust. Man it was hot.
> 
> I know it's a very good BD player but personally I looked for an actual player. The lossless codecs were the most important thing to me and *i wanted DTS HD MA which as far as I know is the one that PS3 can't do (yet)*.


wanted to keep this thread updated:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/04/10/firmware-v230-details-and-store-walkthrough/

New PS3 firmware update now supports DTS HD MA :reading:


----------



## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

Wayde said:


> Why Blu-ray?
> 
> My own opinion for what it’s worth…
> 
> When bitstreaming, I personally don’t see any step up when spending the extra money on the $999 models. The unit isn’t decoding so its DACs are irrelevant. It’s just sending bits to your receiver for so I really don’t care if it’s a radio shack breadboard with a few ICs dangling from it. I’m of the bits-is-bits school. But then, I’m really not a dedicated audiophile.


All BD Players decode the audio. Some are just capable of re-encoding it to send it over HDMI as a Dolby True or DTS MA HD bitstream. A DAC is not involved in this process as it stays digital. The Denon DVD-2500BTCI transport doesn't have any DACs either and only has one HDMI output on the back. I would suspect that the quality of decoding/re-encoding would come into play. Whether the BD player or AVR does the final decoding and the differences in quality is something that has not been discussed/analyzed in any great detail.


----------



## bobgpsr (Apr 20, 2006)

Rather some BD players can send the new audio codec (TrueHD, dts-HD MA, etc) raw audio bitstream "as is" right out the HDMI 1.3 port to the AVR for the AVR to decode. The player in this particular case does not decode or re-encode the audio.

Some have reported that the PS3 despite having HDMI 1.3 can not send raw bitstream out due to the particular Silicon Image HDMI transmitter IC that it uses. But the PS3 can decode TrueHD and recently now dts-HD MA internally and send it out as multichannel linear PCM to a HDMI (1.1, 1.2, 1.3) AVR.


----------



## muzz (Nov 30, 2006)

wbassett said:


> I thought about the Sammy dual player, or even building an HTPC centered around LG's PC super drive that plays everything, HD DVD, Bluray...


This is where I sit right now.
I'd LOVE a great player that can decode ALL codecs internally, and output via ANALOGS.
SUPPOSEDLY the Panny BD50,and the Sony 550 will do this, panny will do 5.1, Sony 550 7.1.
GREAT!!.... ummmmmmmmm
Sony SA players seem to be utterly picky about the discs being played, and the Panny keeps getting pushed back....

Panny BD50 MSRP has jump to $699 as well.......

I'd LOVE a GOOD Dual format player, but it seems that NONE do what I have suggested above, and the LG and Samsungs seem to be a bit buggy as well.

I've considered the LG DF PC drives(I have an HTPC already hooked up, with an X-FI Xtreme Music via analogs), but it seems the software is weak, unfinished, and down mixes the audio over analogs....

Totally pathetic and unacceptable to me.... I've actually considered foregoing the Lossless codecs(I NEED analogs) and getting a PS3...

Unreal...........

I'm so glad that the "Peoples  choice" was Blu-Ray......now we can all wait till they see fit to deliver, and it'll cost an arm and a leg.........
HDDVD did all of this(including the equivalent of BD-Live-[HDi] which STILL isn't done and on the market yet) except for DTS-MA(in the states) 2 years ago........

Bah......I'm tired of this TBO, I just want a player that does what I NEED it to do.

BD won, OK.. now lets go, quit screwing around and give us what we need!!


----------



## Sonnie (Apr 11, 2006)

> Bah......I'm tired of this TBO, I just want a player that does what I NEED it to do.
> 
> BD won, OK.. now lets go, quit screwing around and give us what we need!!


:yeahthat:


----------



## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

The new pioneer player will do all you desire and at a cool 599................it's still way too ******* expensive.


----------



## muzz (Nov 30, 2006)

It's funny that you mention the upcoming Pioneer player, I was shocked when I heard that it's MSRP is supposedly going to be lower than the BD50.
It'll probably be a better player too.
SUPPOSEDLY it'll be 1.1 with a firmware update to make it profile 2.0..

I don't like the sound of "Will be 2.0 via update", it's not even out, why not make it 2.0 now?

TBO, I really could care less about BD-Live and all that, my 2 year old Toshiba A-1 has had that internet stuff forever, and I have not, and will not, ever use it(EXCEPT to update FW- which I've also done via disc).
I just want the player to have internal Dacs to output the the newest Lossless codecs via analog for a reasonable price.

Is that too much to ask?

Edit: I just read that the Pioneer BDP-51FD will not be BD-Live capable(will not have ethernet either)... which is 100% fine with me...I'd rather they did what they did, and that's spend the $ on PQ/AQ.
That is the player I am actually waiting for...now if they just move and get it out!!


----------



## hddummy (Mar 9, 2007)

The new Pioneer players will have really good electronics since that was their primary focus. It will be profile 1.1. However, it will not be and never will get an update for 2.0. The player doesn't even have an ethernet port and therefore will never be 2.0 compliant. Sorry for those who want BDLive, but I say no big loss.


----------



## muzz (Nov 30, 2006)

hddummy-

I just saw that it won't have ethernet either........OK, that too is fine, I know how to burn a disc...

PQ/AQ with all the codecs via analogs is all I care about anyways, so I'm waiting for it.
Even looks sweet.

http://www.engadget.com/2008/05/07/pioneer-introduces-elite-bdp-05fd-bdp-51fd-blu-ray-players/


----------



## conchyjoe7 (Aug 28, 2007)

I see everyone's enjoying their BD players...hehe...I NEVER wonder why I was in the "other" camp.


----------



## MatrixDweller (Jul 24, 2007)

I really don't care now that Bluray has won. I have had both formats for awhile. I still just have no idea why a movie studio would switch to be exclusive to a certain format especially Bluray. 

HD-DVDs were cheaper to produce. If all it took was for the big guys to all back the format that was better for business why wouldn't they have gone with the format that could get to market quicker (HD-DVD players were less expensive) and would cost less for them to put their movies on. It doesn't make sense unless a pay out was involved. As far as I know that's considered anti-competition in most 1st world countries. 

I also wonder why consumers would pick an inferior product. The HD-DVD players were so much cheaper and better quality. It goes to show people just buy what they see of the most on TV or buy what the guy tells them too at the big box store. Like the 30 vs 50GB really made a difference. Most Bluray discs are single layered anyway which is only 25GB.

I still fault Microsoft for HD-DVD's demise. If they had of included it with the XBox 360, or even made the existing DVD drive swappable it would have made a huge difference. The PS3 ended up killing HD-DVD because of that. Microsoft could also have promoted it a bit better. I guess they wanted to take a position that would not leave them week in any way. Like they really have to worry about that though. They company brought in $16 billion in profit as of Q3 last year. That's profit, not revenue. That's enough to buy a small country.

Oh well....long live Bluray...


----------



## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

MatrixDweller said:


> I really don't care now that Bluray has won. I have had both formats for awhile. I still just have no idea why a movie studio would switch to be exclusive to a certain format especially Bluray.
> 
> I also have both formats, and honestly, this may surprise a lot of people but in the past four months I have bought six HD DVD titles and zero Bluray titles. Why? You touch on part of this in what you say next...
> 
> ...


Again, I have both players, but I can't bring myself to pay $30 for a new movie, and some flicks that were in the low $20s when both formats were alive shot up in price. Add to that video quality still isn't that great and some titles like the new Alien movie look like DVD and not like the next generation format like it should. We as consumers lost, and unless something changes very soon, Sony's Bluray will go the way of laser disc and quicker than we all may realize.


----------



## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

Bill, You're lucky! I paid 55 $ / movie for Die hard 4 and Ice age 2. I think I'll have to buy them from abroad :sarcastic:


----------



## wbassett (Feb 8, 2007)

My most recent purchases have been 2001 for $17, Blade Runner the five disc set for $25, and all three Bourne movies for around $35 total. All on HD DVD.

For Bluray, I highly recommend renting a title anyone is interested in before shelling out your money. Not all titles are a stellar transfer. By renting you can see if it is worthy of Bluray or if it looks like a standard def DVD, and some Bluray titles don't look any better than their standard def counter parts. For those titles, save your money and just get the standard def version and let the player upconvert it.

The PS3 is still one great Bluray player in my opinion, and with each firmware update it keeps getting more and more features unlocked. For those that want a dedicated stand alone system, the Panasonic DMP-BD30 is an outstanding player... but still a bit expensive at around the $500 mark.

As far as discs... the best deals are also online. I have yet to see any local store have prices that even come close to online orders. For those of us that live in NY though, get your online orders in soon... New York is about to start charging sales tax on every Internet purchase no matter where you buy it. They have to get their hands on as much as they can ya know!

Other than that, I saw that our local Sam's Club finally started selling BD titles, and some were even at $15, but not many and the overall selection was still pretty slim. Overall I'm not very pleased with the post 'war' prices now that we finally have one format.


----------



## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

Can someone explain me why The Panasonic DMP-BD50 is more expensive than the Samsung BD-P1500? What makes it worth the price tag?

Thanks!


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Im not 100% sure but I do beleave that the Panasonic has the Reon HQV chip where the Samsung does not.


----------



## muzz (Nov 30, 2006)

The Panasonic is using a Uniphier (3 ?) chip afaik.

Definitely not a reon or a realta.


----------



## jerome (Apr 24, 2007)

That's what I have seen too but I can't find much info about the Panasonic Uniphier. Any idea how good this chip is compared to the Broadcom used by Samsung for instance ???


----------



## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

all reports I have heard is that the Panasonic is all around better than the Samsung, more stable.


----------



## muzz (Nov 30, 2006)

CNet has a small review of the upcoming Panny BD-50
Seems that it still lacks in upconverting(like the BD30).
$700 for a 5.1 out player(via analog-7.1 via HDMI I think) that is weak at upconverting isn't going to get me to pull out my wallet.
I guess they had an issue with BD-Live as well, I have ZERO use for that function...and you have to supply the memory card...bah... even the 2 year old Tosh A1 came with 1 GB of internal memory and 5.1 outs, and did everything this thing does except for DTS-MA(which will need a FW update IIRC) and 1080P.
What a joke, this is what we get for 7 beans?
My A1 cost me 499 2 years ago!!!

Consider me underwhelmed.
Waiting on the Pio 51


----------



## Blaser (Aug 28, 2006)

That's why I went for PS3 Muzz  I think the time of a stand alone player hasn't come.


----------



## MrPorterhouse (Jul 29, 2006)

If you've got an updated AVR that can decode Dolby True HD and DTS HD Master Audio, then both the Sammy P1500 and Panny BD30 offer bitstreaming of the audio to the AVR. Both are at Walmart, with the $100 Gift Card, so for about $288 for the Samsung P1500 and $348 for the Panasonic BD30, its an excellent price. You can also get price matching at CC or BB with the Walmart ad. The P1500 will be Profile 2.0 with a future firmware update, and the BD30 is Profile 1.1. Reports indicate that the P1500 is more responsive(faster) and PQ and SQ are excellent on both players. I might pick up a P1500 for my dad this week.


----------



## fibreKid (Apr 20, 2006)

For what it's worth :devil:
PC World has a review out for BluRay players in the July 2008 issue. page 105
The Philips BDP7200 got the best bang for their buck award. :hide:

Happy hunting
-john


----------

