# Basement layout options



## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

So it seems I have a new home that will be under construction soon and I'm looking for a little advise on the current layout I have drawn up. I've looked at this over and over and it's the best way I can come up with. The way it sits now is that the theater is directly under the master bedroom and the 4th bedroom is under the above 2 bedrooms. I'm going to keep the rear of the theater open with a bar at the back. I also "plan" on put all of my equipment behind the screen in a DIY built in rack...everything controlled with RF remotes. 

My questions are:
1. Does anyone see a better way to lay it out...
2. I was thinking a long couch with a couple bean bags up front for the kids....good idea?
3. What's a good size screen for the length of the room and the couch about 2 to 4 feet behind center?
4. Is this room to small for a stage
5. have I bitten off more than I can chew

The ceiling height is only 7'10" so a second row on a riser is out of the question. I experience in carpentry and wiring so it shouldn't be that bad. The only reason I picked the location for the theater is that there isn't any plumbing, wiring or hvac ducting in that corner of the basement. The hvac can be pulled over there easily though. 

I know this is way too early to be discussing this but I figure the more time I give myself to get the plan down... the better off I'll be when the time comes.. I've seen a ton of beautiful theaters in here and hopefully I can add to the list.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

So the theater would be 18ish wide and approx 44 long? I would shorten it a bit - maybe make a lobby in the rear outside the room that would also help as a sound lock for transmission up the stairs?

Really don't want the length to be more than 2x the width if you can help it. You have enough space that cutting off a little certainly won't hurt anything.

Bryan


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Sorry Bryan I should have been a little more clear on the dimensions. the actual room will stop at the 15' mark with the rear open to rest of the room. the double doors going to the stairs are going to be solid oak and sealed as tight as possible so they can be closed while watching movies.....

I really wanted a dedicated room but thought the short length of 15' was too short.


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Right - but the room volume and length is still 44' long so still the same problems.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

got ya.... so a lobby about the same depth as the bar but a little wider would be my best bet then


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## bpape (Sep 14, 2006)

Well, we would want to stay away from 2x the width of the room. Not sure exactly where that falls. The 2 places pending what you want the room to be like would be at the edge of the wall with the entry door or at the far end of the width of the room by the back edge of the bathroom door wall.

Again, don't know exactly what falls where but those seem like logical places to break it for a nice sized space and usable space outside.

Bryan


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

What about flipping the room 90 degrees and closing it off completely for a dedicated HT? That way, your room is 18' long and 15' wide. You could still do one row of seats with bean bags up front.

This way, you have complete light control, can put a solid oak door entry to the HT to seal it off, and use the other space as a "game room" with a bar, etc.

One suggestion right off - if you plan to put it beneath the master bedroom, plan to soundproof it as much as possible or you will not be able to use it while your wife is sleeping.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

I've thought about it being rotated 90 deg. but, got hung up on the idea of an open concept. The wife watches more movies than I do so I don't see my being in there without her to often.....just in case I am I plan on DD/GG to the sub floor above, insulation, and a decoupled DD/GG theater ceiling.

My main concern with rotating it is.....is it better to put the entry door into the center of the room or the more toward the rear?

Here's a quick rendering close to what I plan on doing to give you a visual.... I'm still tweaking the columns.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Would a 16" thick wall behind the screen be enough to build a component rack for all my equipment?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

If I were to rotate it 90 degrees, I would do it so that the screen was on the south wall. I would then put the entryway in back opening out so that I could hide it as much as possible. This way, if someone comes in when you are watching something, they do not cross the sight path. 

Since the door is usually your weakest soundproofing point (after decoupling / DD/GG), you would be locating it where it would not be a big deal.

My biggest concern with leaving it as an open space would be dealing with the resulting room modes and potentially not getting my subs to fill the space.

That said, I understand wanting to have it open as well.

As far as locating the equipment behind the screen, I did not see if you were planning for a retractable screen - was this in your plans?


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

as far as the screen goes I "plan" on a fixed screen that flips up with actuators when not in use. The reasons I'm considering doing this is: 1. keep it out of reach from my two kids. 2.I like the look of a fixed screen. 3. think it would be kinda cool to do. If I do go through with it then I'l incorporate a quick release to bypass any problems.

The only problem I seem to be getting feedback on is masking the frame properly.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

That will be a very neat set-up - looking forward to seeing it!

How are you planning to cool the equipment behind the screen?


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

i was thinking of branching off a smaller hvac duct to it and a series of smaller fans to exhaust it out somehow... the front will be open to the backside of the screen. I need to think about some blackout cloth on the backside off the screen to keep the light from coming through...... 

Another thought is the screen will have to contact the front of the rack to keep any stray light from all the indicator lights getting out.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

If I go with an 18' deep room what would be a good seating distance/ screen size to go with? is 110" to ambitious or should I go smaller. I know smaller will give a brighter picture and less pixilation but, I want to get the most of the room. Is there anyone that has a room close to this size with any recomendations?


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

untuned said:


> Would a 16" thick wall behind the screen be enough to build a component rack for all my equipment?


Definately go deeper if you can. Even tho some components are less than 16" deep, you have to leave room for connectors, wiring and ventillation. Plus, you should leave room for upgrades, like external power amps for example. Some of those can be 18-20" deep.


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## hjones4841 (Jan 21, 2009)

untuned said:


> If I go with an 18' deep room what would be a good seating distance/ screen size to go with? is 110" to ambitious or should I go smaller. I know smaller will give a brighter picture and less pixilation but, I want to get the most of the room. Is there anyone that has a room close to this size with any recomendations?


I would think 110" would be fine, but there are projector/screen size calculators on-line. I don't have a link but maybe someone else can post one. Also, planning for the future, if/when we get 4K resolution, that will allow sitting closer to the screen. Field of view of your eyes is important - don't want viewers to have to move heads around to see the sides of the screen. The projector calculator should help with that.

BTW, my room is 12.5x20x8 with a 102" screen on the 12.5 foot wall. We sit about 11 feet back and the screen size seems just about right.

One way to help brightness is to put the projector as close to the screen as possible. Since projectors have different zooms you should settle in on which one, or at least 2-3, before selecting the projector's mounting location.

One thing about the open room idea - it is gonna take a lot of subwoofer horsepower to pressurize that 44 foot deep space. The idea of sealing the room off into a smaller one sounds like a good plan.

Most of all, have fun doing all this. HTs are an immense source of entertainment for the whole family.:bigsmile:


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Here are a couple calculators:

http://www.projectorcentral.com/projection-calculator-pro.cfm

http://www.eliteprojectorcalculator.com/


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## phreak (Aug 16, 2010)

untuned said:


> If I go with an 18' deep room what would be a good seating distance/ screen size to go with? is 110" to ambitious or should I go smaller. I know smaller will give a brighter picture and less pixilation but, I want to get the most of the room. Is there anyone that has a room close to this size with any recomendations?


My room is 13.5' x 18.5' and I have a 106" screen at 10' to the first row and 15' to the 2nd row. Picture is not too big from the front row, not too small from the back. Have to be within 5 feet of the screen to see pixilation. Anywhere from 100"-110" would be fine, 120" would be great for some people but it may seem too wide from the front row for some others.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

The more I think about it the more I'm leaning toward a sealed HT now..... One thing I have to do now is narrow the seemingly endless field of projectors down to a suitable few withing a budget....don't want to spend more than 2,500 for one at the moment. Most of the ones I've looked at so far give me a 100 to 108 inch diag. screen at 14' throw distance. Just started research on a good projector/screen combo and I have to admit it's pretty overwhelming and a bit intimidating.:scratch:

right now I'm looking at 14' throw and 12' or 13' eye to screen distance for one couch....that is of course with an 18" thick screen wall.

Let me know if I'm on the right path or veering off course here.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

I would suggest putting a thread out in the Home Theater Projectors forum and make sure to give a budget and your other parameters. There are quite a few people that frequent that forum who don't get to the Construction forum often and have great experience with a variety of projectors. I can only attest to the Panasonic AE-7000U - it is 3D capable, but more importantly for me, has an amazing picture and lens memory. It does fall in your budget at $2449 from Visual Apex.

IMO - don't worry about the screen yet. Focus in on your projector and what works for your mounting position - most projectors have a good enough zoom that they are workable from 14' - unless you were going with a 175" screen! :bigsmile:


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Hey thanks Joe I'll have to head over there once I make a final decision on the room dimension.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Alright.....after alot of consideration and a little bit of calculations I think I've got it trimmed down to something a little bit better than when I started. Turning the room 90 deg. is going to be the best way to get the best overall room. This way I can have it totally isolated and build it as a room within a room. I've moved the components out from behind the screen to a rack in the back rh corner with the rear of it accessible from the bar area outside. All I did was make another cabinet on the other end of the wall to house the popcorn machine and candy display as you go into the theater. place a row of cabinets between the two with a countertop and...presto...you have the backwall to my bar. 

Let me know if there is something I need to implement into the plans....hopefully this setup is better than the first.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Looks good to me - putting the rack there and making it accessible from the bar is a really good idea. If you are planning to enclose the cabinet, be sure to build in fans / return vent to pull the hot air out of there and keep your gear cool.

At a ceiling height of 7'10", I am assuming you are just planning on doing GG / DD for soundproofing and not an actual room-in-a-room - is that right?


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

is there any way i can use wisperclips to decouple the ceiling from the joists above? or is that not considered a room within a room?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

IIRC, room-in-a-room is when you completely frame out a new room inside an existing framed room to completely decouple all walls and ceiling.

Whisperclips is definitely a good idea - I used them in my room. The best way to describe how well they have soundproofed the room - my wife made me take one of the phones into that room so she can use the intercom function to get me - I can't hear her otherwise.

Since you are starting with an unfinished space, I would suggest the following:

1. Take a bit of extra time to cut drywall and adhere it to the ceiling between your joists. This will create added mass and diminish the impact of footfalls in the room above. It will also give you another layer of drywall for soundproofing. It can be tedious, but I found it was well worth my time.

2. At 7'10", you are already starting out with a lower ceiling (same as me). If you do Whisperclips, by the time it is all said and done you lose an additional 3-5" from your ceiling height (the exact amount escapes me atm). To reduce this, you can put blocking between your joists to attach the clips to and hang your res channel from there. I documented that part pretty well in my build which you can get to in my signature.

3. If you are planning on doing 2 layers of drywall, consider making the first layer OSB instead. I checked with John at The Soundproofing Company and he said there was little difference acoustically doing this. For me, it gave a layer that would hold a screw / nail much better than drywall in the event I missed a channel with a screw or wanted to affix / hang something on the walls.

Hope this helps!


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Oh, and for #1 above, use GG as well.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Oh I know your build well my friend lol..... I was considering using osb for the first layer on the walls but, wasn't quite sure if it was worth it or not. Thanks for the info!


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Oh and another quick question......with a room of these dimensions what would be the best surround setup? is a 7.2 to much or should I go ahead and wire it up for 7.2 and run a 5.1 or 5.2 to see if it's enough?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

untuned said:


> Oh and another quick question......with a room of these dimensions what would be the best surround setup? is a 7.2 to much or should I go ahead and wire it up for 7.2 and run a 5.1 or 5.2 to see if it's enough?


You are going to love this answer Brad! :rofl2:

Honestly, as you have everything open right now, I would wire it for 11.4. I know it is probably overkill for a room this size, but now is the time to build in the flexibility. You may never use them all, but at least you have left yourself with the option to try out different positions should you ever decide to. I would put a sub connection point in each of the corners (both passive and powered) to allow for more places to connect / locate a sub when you do a sub crawl. Then, you can start off with 5 and have the ability to move them around to get a feel for where you like haing speakers.

That is the best advice I can give - run everything you can think of now and ask yourself what else you may want to do someday - and allow for the connections - this includes network, composite, etc.


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## billyM (Jun 9, 2011)

Having just completed my 14'x19' theater, I will suggest you wire for more than you'll need. Wire is cheap while the walls are down, expensive later...

Having installed mine as a 7.2, were I to do it again, I would install enough for 9.4 or better...

Main speakers x2 each side (bi-amp or front-height)
Center, Surround-L/R, SurroundBack-L/R
Subwoofers and power at each corner.

Take care,
--billyM


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

That's exactly the answers I was looking for. Now are there general guidlines to knowing where to place the outlets for the speakers or is there an actuall formula to figuring it out?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

untuned said:


> That's exactly the answers I was looking for. Now are there general guidlines to knowing where to place the outlets for the speakers or is there an actuall formula to figuring it out?


Here is a link to a thread Owen made discussing an 11.2 speaker set-up. It does include a pic. I would use it as a guideline myself - you may have to rearrange connections a tad so you don't turn your studs into swiss cheese......


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Good deal...i'll take a look....thanks Joe


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

ALMFamily said:


> 1. Take a bit of extra time to cut drywall and adhere it to the ceiling between your joists. This will create added mass and diminish the impact of footfalls in the room above. It will also give you another layer of drywall for soundproofing. It can be tedious, but I found it was well worth my time.


I was wondering about this, and now I'm totally on board. Especially in a height-challenged room like the one I'll be working in, I'll take any "free" advantage I can get.



ALMFamily said:


> To reduce this, you can put blocking between your joists to attach the clips to and hang your res channel from there. I documented that part pretty well in my build which you can get to in my signature.


And this could be very useful too. I'm sorry, I forget who this image came from, _(edit: it was Ted from TSC)_, I just knew that I saved a copy because it was brilliant. It is probably in ALM's thread too, but here's one for easy reference.












ALMFamily said:


> Honestly, as you have everything open right now, I would wire it for 11.4. I know it is probably overkill for a room this size, but now is the time to build in the flexibility. You may never use them all, but at least you have left yourself with the option to try out different positions should you ever decide to. I would put a sub connection point in each of the corners (both passive and powered) to allow for more places to connect / locate a sub when you do a sub crawl. Then, you can start off with 5 and have the ability to move them around to get a feel for where you like haing speakers.


Yes, if you're open now, and pulling wires, spend a few extra minutes and dollars and set yourself up for as much as is available now. I bet that 90% of people who do this will be glad they did, and probably less than the remaining 10% will look back and be mad that they did a little extra work and never took advantage of it. It will be SO much easier than trying to add later once the theatre is completed.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

Hey OJ thanks for posting that pic as it is very helpful to have a visual. I do remember seeing it somewhere while browsing some of these build threads. I'm going to implament the 11.4 surround into my design and that will be as large as I go. I can't see myself going any larger as I believe I'll bee fighting a ton of room acoustic problems for a room this size if I do.

Now I just have to wait and plan out the HVAC runs to the theater and split a run to the equipment area.


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

That picture was in a thread I started trying to get an idea for a budget - Ted from The Soundproofing Company provided the visual on doing the ceiling. 

Great guys to work with - Ted helped out here and I talked to John on the phone a few times getting everything squared away. They passed along a few PDFs that helped with soffit design, hanging clips, and a couple other things as well when I ordered my GG and clips.


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

Ah, that's it, it was Ted. Thanks Joe. I edited my post to give him the correct credit. It sure is nice to have a wealth of experts here to help us when we run into problems or come up with random questions or setbacks.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

That's it....that's the way I'm going to plan on doing the ceiling then. I can't see any other way to do it better.

Heres another one for ya... Let's say I do go ahead and wire the room up for 11.4 and hide my side surrounds in the columns. I know, from other threads, that I need to build in some backer boxes for the speakers and make them larger than needed for future upgrades sooo...... Do these boxes need to be decoupled from the columns and if I use some sort of insulation inside ( d/gg or matting of some sort) will it be pointless to insulate behind the boxws as well?


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

untuned said:


> That's it....that's the way I'm going to plan on doing the ceiling then. I can't see any other way to do it better.
> 
> Heres another one for ya... Let's say I do go ahead and wire the room up for 11.4 and hide my side surrounds in the columns. I know, from other threads, that I need to build in some backer boxes for the speakers and make them larger than needed for future upgrades sooo...... Do these boxes need to be decoupled from the columns and if I use some sort of insulation inside ( d/gg or matting of some sort) will it be pointless to insulate behind the boxws as well?


Good question - I had just planned to create an opening in my column to sit the surround on and then wrap it with GOM. I was going to model mine after Moggie's but without the curved look, and I am pretty certain he did not do backer boxes. I will have to double check and let you know.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

good deal .... thanks for the help Joe


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

Brad,

I took a look through a couple of the builds I had read in their entirety (and stole a lot of ideas from! ) to see how they did their columns.

Both just had openings for the speakers and stuffed the rest of the column with batts to combat column resonance. If you want, take a look at Simon's build (raZorTT) and do a search for columns - you can see how he managed them as well as the comments from Bryan and Prof. Moggie's build thread is over at AVS.

If it would help, I can make an attempt at a rendering for what I had in mind for design of my columns - no promises on tidyness as I have not used Sketch-Up much.


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

I'll take a look at Simon's build and see what he's doing differently. I believe I understand what you're explaining so if you want to throw out a rendering it's up to you but, it would be helpful none the less:T


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## ALMFamily (Oct 19, 2011)

untuned said:


> I'll take a look at Simon's build and see what he's doing differently. I believe I understand what you're explaining so if you want to throw out a rendering it's up to you but, it would be helpful none the less:T


I am off camping this weekend, so I will see what I can come up with......


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## untuned (Mar 29, 2012)

No worry, I have all the time in the world to plan things out...... enjoy your time....god knows i could use a little time away, stuck working this Sat:rolleyesno:


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## Owen Bartley (Oct 18, 2006)

I think backer boxes give a big boost in performance for most in-wall speakers. If you are placing bookshelves or other enclosed speakers on a shelf and hiding them in a column, the best solution is probably just to sit them inside and cover the 3 sides with GOM or speaker grille material.

Now, about the boxes for in-walls... unless the manufacturer provides you with specs for the internal volume, it is kind of a shot in the dark on how to build them. General consensus is that in-wall speakers do sound better when the rear is enclosed somehow, so I'd just build something of a reasonable size to give them their own space to bereathe.  It will also help to keep the sound from the speakers from playing out the back and into any adjacent rooms. Decoupling the box would probably be ideal, but I wouldn't worry about it unless you're eager to work something up. I don't (IMHO) think it will make a huge difference in most situations, and as long as you have some kind of sealed enclosure for each speaker you should be good. I guess if you were going all out and building a full room-within-a-room then it would make more sense, but in most real world installations I don't think it will make a huge impact. I would put some insulation/stuffing inside the box, and insulate behind it if there is room just like you would if it wasn't there.


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