# Cannot access THX Ultra 2 on BD Dolby TrueHd



## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

I am using Onkyo 5508 Preamp and Oppo 83 BDP. During Transformers BD DOTM in Dolby TrueHD 7.1 I cannot set THX Ultra 2 processing on the 5508. It is not displayed as a choice. If however I load another BD say in DTS MA HD BD THX Ultra 2 is selectable. It appears to be a conflict between Dolby Truehd and THX Ultra 2. Does anyone have this issue? I have rechecked my setup profiles connections etc and everything appears ok.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Dwight Angus said:


> I am using Onkyo 5508 Preamp and Oppo 83 BDP. During Transformers BD DOTM in Dolby TrueHD 7.1 I cannot set THX Ultra 2 processing on the 5508. It is not displayed as a choice. If however I load another BD say in DTS MA HD BD THX Ultra 2 is selectable. It appears to be a conflict between Dolby Truehd and THX Ultra 2. Does anyone have this issue? I have rechecked my setup profiles connections etc and everything appears ok.


As I have the BD and my TX-NR3008 is heavily based off the 5508 or vice versa, I will try it and see what happens. That seems odd. I will report back either later tonight or in the morning.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Hmmm, thats an odd one. I know for a fact that my display showed THX U2 with that movie. Could it be a setting in the OPPO?


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> Hmmm, thats an odd one. I know for a fact that my display showed THX U2 with that movie. Could it be a setting in the OPPO?


I was also thinking its an OPPO setting. I will check it again and report back. Cheers


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## tcarcio (Jun 27, 2007)

I had to send LPCM instead of bitstream out of my Oppo for my reciever to apply Audyssey to true hd or dts ma audio tracks. Maybe it is the same kind of issue?


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

I checked the setup again and it appears to be correct. I played a BD Dolby Digital disc and the Onkyo displayed THX Ultra 2 plus available when I cycled through the various thx audio options. I also played BD DTSHD-MA 5.1 and THX Ultra 2 Plus was again available. Ultra 2 Plus is also available in gaming mode. The Ultra 2 plus is not available on the Onkyo when cycling through THX options when a TRUEHD 7.1 disc is playing. Am I missing something?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Is THX ultra 2 Plus not designed to expand a 5.1 mix to 7.1? Dont you want to use THX cinema for a 7.1 mix?


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

I thought THX Ultra 2 plus was for rooms greater than 3000 cubic feet and had a distance of more than 12 feet from seat to screen but your right it also expands a 5.1 mix to 7.1 mix. So when playing a 7.1 BD Ultra 2 plus processing is not available as the disc is already encoded in 7.1 audio. After I load a 7.1 disc the Onkyo briefly displays ULtra 2 Plus as my preference then defaults to THX Cinema come to think of it.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

Tony did you say your receiver does display Ultra 2 Plus when playing the DOTM BD?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Im going to have to check but I know it showed a THX mode of some sort I cant remember what I had as a default any more. I will look tonight for you.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Ok, I tried it to confirm and this is what I get. I see all the 7.1 channel indicators lit up with TruHD and THX logos lit as well. The only THX option I have available to me is THX Cinema (my room is 16'x27' with a 9' ceiling) so plenty big for that mode to work nicely.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

My indicators are the same. It is strange that I can use THX Ultra 2 plus when I play a DTS-HD-MA 7.1 disc but not available when I play Dolby TRUEHD 7.1 disc. THX Ultra 2 plus also works if I play Dolby TRUEHD 5.1 disc.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

THX must have had their reason for doing this I wonder if other receiver manufacturers with THX certification have this as well?


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

I contacted OPPO and they suggested to ask Onkyo, as they are not doing anything to the Bit Stream signal when sending it over HDMI". 

I will contact THX and Onkyo to see what they say?


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Dwight Angus said:


> I will contact THX and Onkyo to see what they say?


Look forward to that info for sure


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
I too only have available THX Cinema and not Ultra 2 on DSOTM with my 3008. As I always use True HD, I had never noticed it. Interesting.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

Hi Jack
Sounds like you, Tony and myself are getting the same result. Now I just want to know why this is happening? I Only have this issue with TruehD 7.1. THX Ultra2 works fine with DTSHDMA 7.1 and TRUEHD 5.1. OPPO have confirmed to me it is not their issue. I am just waiting for a response back from the folks at THX and Onkyo. I will post when I hear from them. Cheers.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Dwight Angus said:


> Hi Jack
> Sounds like you, Tony and myself are getting the same result. Now I just want to know why this is happening? I Only have this issue with TruehD 7.1. THX Ultra2 works fine with DTSHDMA 7.1 and TRUEHD 5.1. OPPO have confirmed to me it is not their issue. I am just waiting for a response back from the folks at THX and Onkyo. I will post when I hear from them. Cheers.


Hello,
I definitely do not think it is an OPPO issue. It is a bummer as the only way to get the Audyssey Flat Curve on an Onkyo is to engage a THX Mode and turn off ReEQ. Otherwise, you are forced to use the Onkyo designed Audyssey Curve. Most brands that offer Audyssey give you the choice of using the Flat Curve.

Also, on earlier Onkyo AVR's with MultEQ XT, it was not possible to have the AVR both decode the Lossless Codecs and preform Audyssey due to a lack of Processing Power. This was the case with pretty much every AVR from about 3-5 years ago. This is why Audyssey would only work when receiving an LPCM Stream as the BDP is handling the decoding.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

I prefer the Audyssey Flat Curve vs the Onkyo Curve so I engage a THX mode most of the time. 
Why would Onkyo choose a different access route compared to other brands regarding flat curve access?


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## Drudge (Sep 1, 2008)

I don't believe that any of the DTS-HD-MA 7.1 discs are actually true 7.1 discrete soundtracks(I could be wrong though).There may be a flag on the Dolby TRUEHD 7.1 disc that tells the unit it is a true discrete soundtrack and doesn't allow any 5.1 to 7.1 post processing to take place,since there is no point to it.


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## Jungle Jack (Jul 28, 2009)

Hello,
That is an interesting theory. While I do think that DTS-MA is discrete, I do think the True HD well might have a flag or token which makes Post Processing like THX not possible. This is a very interesting discussion.
Cheers,
JJ


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

Just an update on this. Todate I have not received a response from either THX or Onkyo on this issue and have resent my earlier message to them. I no longer consider OPPO to be part of this issue either as they have responded to me directly indicated "they do not do anything to the bitstream signal over HDMI". Also my new OPPO BDP-93 performs consistently with my BDP-83.

D, I also had the same idea as you and thought TrueHD7.1 signal includes a flag that would render THX Ultra redundant and therefore not a selectable option but until I get some sort of response from Onkyo or THX then its all speculation. Stayed tuned.


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## tonyvdb (Sep 5, 2007)

Dwight Angus said:


> I also had the same idea as you and thought TrueHD7.1 signal includes a flag that would render THX Ultra redundant and therefore not a selectable option


Thats my thought on this, and it does not bother me that it does this as its what I had it default to anyhow.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

tonyvdb said:


> Thats my thought on this, and it does not bother me that it does this as its what I had it default to anyhow.


Agreed. I just want to understand why this happens. Actually I don't use THX very often as I prefer the sound of the "Audyssey Reference Curve" over the "Flat Curve" with RE-EQ.


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

Dwight Angus said:


> I am using Onkyo 5508 Preamp and Oppo 83 BDP. During Transformers BD DOTM in Dolby TrueHD 7.1 I cannot set THX Ultra 2 processing on the 5508. It is not displayed as a choice. If however I load another BD say in DTS MA HD BD THX Ultra 2 is selectable. It appears to be a conflict between Dolby Truehd and THX Ultra 2. Does anyone have this issue? I have rechecked my setup profiles connections etc and everything appears ok.


I just found this thread, so maybe you have a more definitive answer by now. As far I can tell with my own gear, when the THX processing receives a discrete 7.1 source, the ability to select ULTRA 2 CINEMA is disabled because there is no post decoding of the back surrounds required - that has been done already in the mix. The display will read THX CINEMA and the only options you should have are THX MUSIC or THX GAME. 

I see this on my gear all the time (even though I have SELECT 2, not ULTRA 2) when I connect my PC and stream HR multichannel music over HDMI. In my case, the PC settings are set to 5.1 because there is a glitch in the channel assignment of NVIDIA and even so, the system sends the signal as 8ch PCM. The THX processing therefore handles it the same as if it were discrete 7.1. If I send 2CH program, I see the same thing, just hear the sound from the front L and R. BM (if your using it) still works though.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

Mark when I play a discrete 7.1 DTSHDMA blu-ray disc THX ULTRA can be selected but I cannot select it if I play 7.1 TrueHD disc. Both types of discs are discrete so its a specific issue with Dolby


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

I don't have a True HD 7.1 sound track at hand (have not bought T3DOTM yet and the Region B RAMBO is not 7.1 either), though I do have a few DTS HDMA 7.1 soundtracks to play with. Maybe it is a Dolby thing like the early days of Dialog Normalization where I used to only see the offset for DD and not DTS. 

It could also be an ONKYO thing because my AVR is Pioneer, and although I do get to play with a variety of THX certified components, I've not really seen this when plating around with the settings. 

It does raise the question as to why you can select this for DTS HDMA 7.1 because as I said in my earlier post, there is no post decoding needed for 7.1 because the way it was done in the mix.


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## Dwight Angus (Dec 17, 2007)

I picked this comment up from the AVS Forum. "Curious about how about the DTS-MA 7.1 + THX Ultra2 combo, myself. You can't use Ultra 2 on 7.1 sources as it's already 7.1 and no matrixing is needed. THX Cinema will be the only one you can use" It doesn't explain why I can use ULtra 2 with DTSHDMA 7.1 but the comment generally supports our theory.


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## Mark Techer (Jan 17, 2008)

Dwight Angus said:


> I picked this comment up from the AVS Forum. "Curious about how about the DTS-MA 7.1 + THX Ultra2 combo, myself. You can't use Ultra 2 on 7.1 sources as it's already 7.1 and no matrixing is needed. THX Cinema will be the only one you can use" It doesn't explain why I can use ULtra 2 with DTSHDMA 7.1 but the comment generally supports our theory.


You'll also find that if you go into the set up menu and turn off the Back Surrounds that you also are denied access to THX U2. It should just show THX CINEMA. Again, because there is no post decoding of the back surrounds (because now there are none). I have a few DTS HDMA 7.1 tracks and tonight I will have a play and see what it does.


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