# Danley DTS-10 subs



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

WHat can be or should be done to dial in my 2 DTS-10 subs? They are under the front stage and rear seating so they can not be moved... Any EQing? Is there a way with REW to sweep with both subs or all speakers in the room? I have included my left front calibrated channel for reference... Subs are crossing over at 80Hz.

Data file included...


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I am thinking the bass from my front channel needs a boost around 150Hz, and everything needs a boost below.


----------



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

Hi first find the best position using the RTA function in REW for the all speakers and all subs (separately)

Then start to take measurement's (like you have). Again take the following measurements to fine tune

Left main
Right main
Left and right together
Sub 1
Sub 2
Sub 1 and Sub 2 together

Post mdat file


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Phillips said:


> Hi first find the best position using the RTA function in REW for the all speakers and all subs (separately)
> 
> Then start to take measurement's (like you have). Again take the following measurements to fine tune
> 
> ...


Hi,
Do I also run the center channel?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Here we go...
I ran the left, and right channels and each sub by itself... I also included the center channel if needed.


----------



## Phillips (Aug 12, 2011)

I am at work so can't look at mdat file

One thing I didn't include was to measure all speakers and subs full range (no crossovers) this gives a more of an idea what is happening.

Did you use the RTA for best positioning of all speakers and subs before taking these measurements?

Also are both mains and both subs (separate measurements) in the latest measurements?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Phillips said:


> I am at work so can't look at mdat file
> 
> One thing I didn't include was to measure all speakers and subs full range (no crossovers) this gives a more of an idea what is happening.
> 
> ...


We are using MiniDSPs for our crossovers for the front 3 channels. So I think we have what you need to a degree as the front speakers were ran from 15-20k.

We did not use RTA for best positioning as the front 3 speakers take up the whole front wall (except for a couple of feet), so we have no where to move them to. The most i could do is try a different angle.

In the latest measurement I have the full range of each front channel, and individual for each sub. (We are crossing the subs at 80HZ with Audyssey but the measurements were full range with REW) 

The REW measurements for the subs are from 15Hz to 500Hz
The main speakers are from 15Hz to 20k

Is that good for you?


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Are these measurements with or without Audyssey?

Let's see a graph with both subs + center comparing Audyssey on/off.

Set your graph limits to:

Vertical Axis - 45db to 105db
Horizontal Axis - 10hz to 200hz

Also, make sure you are performing the SPL calibration routine before every REW session. Looks like you may not be considering the large discrepancy between SPL in your measurements.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Are these measurements with or without Audyssey?
> 
> Let's see a graph with both subs + center comparing Audyssey on/off.
> 
> ...


How do I do it with both subs and the center?When you do the sweep it is center or sub.:T

The subs are hooked up directly to the Denon 4520 currently and not to the MiniDSP. I believe all measurements were done without Audyssey.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Are you connecting via HDMI to your AVR?

If so, then you select Output 3 in REW, that is your center channel. With bass management on, you will get audio from the center + subs.

If not, you would just put your AVR into PLII Movie mode and that will send all REW audio to the center.

Also, for the Audyssey On measurements, make sure Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol are off.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Are you connecting via HDMI to your AVR?
> 
> If so, then you select Output 3 in REW, that is your center channel. With bass management on, you will get audio from the center + subs.
> 
> ...



I did these measurements with the Denon set to 7.1 multichannel in... I hope this is correct.

Here are my center with both subs, subs only (both tests with no Audyssey)


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

First is center and subs with Audyssey, and second is both subs only with Audyssey... Is this what you wanted?


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

You never answered...are you using HDMI to your AVR??

I'm looking at your MDAT right now, be back later with some suggestions.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

OK Ellis, following the graph limit settings I asked you to use earlier (which you totally disregarded  ), here is how your graphs should look:








































Do you still have Dynamic EQ on when you are taking your Audyssey On measurements? Make sure when you take Aud On measurements that you turn Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol off.

You have a very deep null centered around 55-60hz. This is a *20db* null! That is huge and will definitely be audible. You said before that you can't move the subs. Unfortunately, the only way you are going to fix that null is either by moving your subs, adding more sub, or moving your listening position. It can not be fixed with EQ.

Your sub level is much lower than your center channel...this should be the other way around. Please list all of your speaker trim levels as determined by Audyssey, and if you have made any changes.

Do you have all speakers set to small? Where are your crossovers set? Where did Audyssey set them?


It's not all bad news....you're looking good in the crossover region (80hz). Audyssey is notorious for getting the sub distance wrong, usually requiring some tweaking. Yours looks pretty good as is...not to say it couldn't be improved by some distance tweaking though.

Please answer all my questions so I will be able to offer the best advice!


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> You never answered...are you using HDMI to your AVR??
> 
> I'm looking at your MDAT right now, be back later with some suggestions.


I'm sorry... I am using HDMI to my AVR. Thanks for your help. :T Hopefully I can do some kind of a house curve to boost the bass just a bit, once the subs are worked out that is. I have never tried a house curve but I hear it is better for watching movies. Is a house curve good when you listen to music too?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> OK Ellis, following the graph limit settings I asked you to use earlier (which you totally disregarded  ), here is how your graphs should look:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I tried to follow your instructions but I couldn't figure out how to do the 105db part. Sorry.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> OK Ellis, following the graph limit settings I asked you to use earlier (which you totally disregarded  ), here is how your graphs should look:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Dynamic EQ is off
Dynamic volume is off

Front small
Center small
Sub 2 speakers
surround small
surround back small 2 speakers

distances
Front L 21 ft
Front r 21.2ft
Center 20ft
Sub 1 11.1ft
Sub 2 15.2 ft
Surround l 8.8ft
surround r 8.2ft
surround back l 9.3
surround back r 11.3

Crossovers
Front 80HZ
Center 60Hz
Surround 90Hz
Surround back 40Hz

All of the above is per Audyssey


Actual measurements
Front sub 9.5" from MLP (sub is a horn loaded sub with unknown distance to the actual woofer (Danley DTYS-10)
Rear sub is 9' from MLP (Danley DTS-10)

Left channel 12'
Center 10' 8" to bass speaker front (horn loaded with a 5' depth horn)
Right channel 12' 2"
Left surround 7'7"
right surround 8' 2"
left rear surround 9' 7"
right surround 12'


I think i have them all for you now. How does that look? Should I go an manually correct all the distances? I have not made any changes. If i need to get the subs any higher... I think I will need to lower the gain on the front channels as when I raise the sulevel up Audyssey says they are too loud.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> I tried to follow your instructions but I couldn't figure out how to do the 105db part. Sorry.


You change the Limits here:


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> Dynamic EQ is off
> Dynamic volume is off
> 
> Front small
> ...


Didn't really need the distances...I need the _speaker trims_.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Also, please describe your Audyssey procedure. Are you using a tripod or mic boom for the Audyssey mic? Are you keeping all measurement points clustered tightly around the MLP? Are you using all 8 points?


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> I'm sorry... I am using HDMI to my AVR. Thanks for your help. :T Hopefully I can do some kind of a house curve to boost the bass just a bit, once the subs are worked out that is. I have never tried a house curve but I hear it is better for watching movies. Is a house curve good when you listen to music too?


Do you have a MiniDSP? Is it currently in the chain?

I would recommend that if you do, take it out of the chain for now until we get the basics sorted out. We can worry about a house curve after that.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Have you read AustinJerry's awesome REW Guide? I'm kinda thinking you haven't. You should. 

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/78476446/REW 101 v3.9.pdf


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

One more thing - what mic are you using with REW?


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Also, please describe your Audyssey procedure. Are you using a tripod or mic boom for the Audyssey mic? Are you keeping all measurement points clustered tightly around the MLP? Are you using all 8 points?


For Audyssey
I am putting the mic on top of our low back couch which puts the mike about an inch or two higher than the Mic for REW (which is on a Mic Boom tripod). I have only been doing one position for the mic.

As far as the trim... Did I give you what you needed?


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> distances
> Front L 21 ft
> Front r 21.2ft
> Center 20ft
> ...


That's very very strange that your Audyssey set distances are so far off from your actual distances....do you have some sort of DSP between your AVR and the speakers??


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> One more thing - what mic are you using with REW?


I am using the Cross Spectrum UMIK-1. I enter the calibration for one_third_octave_band_response_90_degree if I recall correctly. Mic is pointed toward the ceiling.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> That's very very strange that your Audyssey set distances are so far off from your actual distances....do you have some sort of DSP between your AVR and the speakers??


Nothing at all... Could it be because my front three speakers, and subs are all horn loaded?


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> For Audyssey
> I am putting the mic on top of our low back couch which puts the mike about an inch or two higher than the Mic for REW (which is on a Mic Boom tripod). I have only been doing one position for the mic.


Ummm...yeah...that's not good. Why aren't you using the same mic boom for the Audyssey mic?

You should never set the Audyssey mic on furniture, the furniture will transmit low frequencies and absorb the high frequencies completely messing up you calibration. You also need to do all 8 mic positions, this will provide the best calibration.

Have you seen the great Audyssey Setup Guide over on AVSForum? It's a great primer on the correct procedures.

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-re...thread-faq-post-51779-a-191.html#post14456895




> As far as the trim... Did I give you what you needed?


Nope.  I need the speaker trims as set by Audyssey....however, until you re-run Audyssey with the proper procedure, I'm not sure how much this will tell me.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Do you have a MiniDSP? Is it currently in the chain?
> 
> I would recommend that if you do, take it out of the chain for now until we get the basics sorted out. We can worry about a house curve after that.


I have a MiniDSP in the chain... It is only on my main channels though and is my only crossover for the main channels. I have a MiniDSP for the subs but it is not in the chain.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> Nothing at all... Could it be because my front three speakers, and subs are all horn loaded?


I was just checking out your build thread, and you said that you were using MiniDSPs for crossovers on your speakers...is that not the case anymore??

I have KHorns as my mains and Audyssey sets the distance almost spot on every time.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> I have a MiniDSP in the chain... It is only on my main channels though and is my only crossover for the main channels. I have a MiniDSP for the subs but it is not in the chain.


Do you mind if I ask why your are using a MiniDSP to cross your mains?? You have a perfectly capable AVR to handle that... :huh:

Not to mention that you now have cascading crossovers (the crossover in the MiniDSP and the crossover in the AVR are being used at the same time).

This is going to get complicated, I can already tell.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Ummm...yeah...that's not good. Why aren't you using the same mic boom for the Audyssey mic?
> 
> You should never set the Audyssey mic on furniture, the furniture will transmit low frequencies and absorb the high frequencies completely messing up you calibration. You also need to do all 8 mic positions, this will provide the best calibration.
> 
> ...


I don't have a mount for the Denon mic on the boom tripod... I can use my wife's camera tripod but it won't get me as close to the MLP. Let me see if i still have my mini tripod.
The trims are the crossovers correct? They were set by Audyssey. Do you want me to use the Tripod and run 8 positions? I can do that if that is what you want.:T


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Do you mind if I ask why your are using a MiniDSP to cross your mains?? You have a perfectly capable AVR to handle that... :huh:
> 
> Not to mention that you now have cascading crossovers (the crossover in the MiniDSP and the crossover in the AVR are being used at the same time).
> 
> This is going to get complicated, I can already tell.


We are doing an Active crossover for bi-amping. When we were just using the Denon with some old Klipsch crossovers the Denon insisted on crossing the front channels over at 250Hz. We figured it was because my bass bins have only 100db efficiency and my horns are 112db. When we went Active we raised the gain on the bass bins to the max and then lowered the gain on the horns to get the crossovers to 80Hz.

Here is the link to what we did... http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/99577-trying-get-my-crossover-setup-2-way.html


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

The speaker trims are _not _the crossovers...they are the speaker trims. 

If your Denon is like mine, it should be under SPEAKERS>MANUAL SETUP>LEVELS.

Just an aside; you really should read your AVR manual cover to cover. 


I do NOT want you to re-run Audyssey with a jury-rigged tripod (or mini-tripod)...I want you to get a mount for your mic boom that will accept the Audyssey mic, read the Audyssey Guide I linked you to and follow it. Then, and only then, do I want you to tell me the speaker trims. Then we'll do some more measuring. 

Seriously dude, you've spent a lot of time and money to put together a really nice theater, don't cut corners or take the easy way out when it comes to the most important part...calibration.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> We are doing an Active crossover for bi-amping. When we were just using the Denon with some old Klipsch crossovers the Denon insisted on crossing the front channels over at 250Hz. We figured it was because my bass bins have only 100db efficiency and my horns are 112db. When we went Active we raised the gain on the bass bins to the max and then lowered the gain on the horns to get the crossovers to 80Hz.
> 
> Here is the link to what we did... http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/99577-trying-get-my-crossover-setup-2-way.html


OK, that's all a bit over my head, but it does explain why your speaker distances are so much greater than your actual distances. The MiniDSP has an internal delay (inherent to the unit itself, nothing you can do about it). This is perfectly fine as long as you don't have any added delay manually set in the MiniDSP. You don't, right?

Just leave the distances in the AVR to where Audyssey sets them.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I have a mini tripod...I t raises the mic about 6" above the boom mic setup.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> OK, that's all a bit over my head, but it does explain why your speaker distances are so much greater than your actual distances. The MiniDSP has an internal delay (inherent to the unit itself, nothing you can do about it). This is perfectly fine as long as you don't have any added delay manually set in the MiniDSP. You don't, right?
> 
> Just leave the distances in the AVR to where Audyssey sets them.


We have a delay in the MiniDSP for time alignment of the horn only... it is a 3.46ms delay.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> The speaker trims are _not _the crossovers...they are the speaker trims.
> 
> If your Denon is like mine, it should be under SPEAKERS>MANUAL SETUP>LEVELS.
> 
> ...


Ok... Here you go...
Left -8.0
right -7.5
center -7.5
Sub 1 -6.0
Sub 2 -6.0
surround l -9.5
surround R -9.0
Surround Back L -5.0
Surround Back R -2.5

These were all from the Automatic Audyssey calibration.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Be back in a few minute... Have to feed our dogs.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Ok.. Back.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

OK ,those trims look good, nothing is out-of-range.

Have you raised the sub trim at all from where Audyssey set it? If not, go ahead and turn it up to "0db". Give it a listen and see what you think...too much bass? Still not enough?

Audyssey is notorious for setting the sub trim very low. Most folks like to bump it up 3-6db. Personally, I run mine 7db "hot". 


Regardless, I want you to read through the guides I linked to, get a mount so you can properly run Audyssey and then get back to me.

I'm going to bed soon and probably won't be on again until tomorrow night. Good luck!


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> OK ,those trims look good, nothing is out-of-range.
> 
> Have you raised the sub trim at all from where Audyssey set it? If not, go ahead and turn it up to "0db". Give it a listen and see what you think...too much bass? Still not enough?
> 
> ...


Thanks for the help! I will try the subs at "0" and see how they sound. Should I also run REw after they are at "0"? Should I do the 8 point Audyssey if Zero is good for me?
tia,
Ron


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Make sure you listen with Dyn EQ on, it helps boost the bass frequencies when listening below reference (0MV).


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

No need to take any more measurements until you run the full 8 point Audyssey calibration...and after you read the Audyssey guide and get a mount for the mic.


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Just a thought - you are aware that Audyssey calibrates _all _of your speakers, not just the subs, right??

This is why it's _very _important to run the _full _calibration, _and _run it correctly.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Make sure you listen with Dyn EQ on, it helps boost the bass frequencies when listening below reference (0MV).


:T



The Yeti said:


> No need to take any more measurements until you run the full 8 point Audyssey calibration...and after you read the Audyssey guide and get a mount for the mic.


 I will read it and do the full 8 point cal. :T



The Yeti said:


> Just a thought - you are aware that Audyssey calibrates _all _of your speakers, not just the subs, right?? Yes :T
> 
> This is why it's _very _important to run the _full _calibration, _and _run it correctly.


 I was running all 8 cal points before, but I stopped when we were setting up the crossovers. I hope to get the setup to sound even better than it does now without running Audyssey (when I listen in 2.1 mode). So far the MiniDSP active setup has made a huge difference.:T


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Personally, I don't think you can beat Audyssey. But you're more than welcome to give it a shot! 

Going to bed now, g'night.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Personally, I don't think you can beat Audyssey. But you're more than welcome to give it a shot!
> 
> Going to bed now, g'night.


Could be,but there is no way to do 3 channel bi-amping with the Denon 4520, and all 3 of our front channels are identical. The front 3 channels are dialed in, so the next step is to dial in the subs. If I need to lower the gain on the fronts to get the subs up I can do that. :T


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

I made up a makeshift mount on the boom mic for the Denon mic... I ran all 8 calibrations in the designated areas of about 1' apart.

Here are the new trim settings
front l -9.0
Front R -8.5
Center -9.0
Sub 1 - 12.0 (it had me raise it for calibration and then lowered it more?)
Sub 2 -11.5 (it had me raise it for calibration and then lowered it more)

Audyssey crossover settings
Front 60Hz
Center 60Hz
Surround 150Hz
Surround Back 60Hz


New sweeps
Subs only, center with both subs, and center with both subs 6db hot. It looks like the 20db nul was from the mike placement. 

How does that look? I tried last night with my pre 8 config running the subs 6db hot and it sounded better. 

I have a phase inverter coming in Sunday to see if reversing the phase on the rear sub eliminates the 20db drop at 15Hz.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

Individual sub plots 6db hot with center channel

Font sub, Rear sub


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

Audyssey setting sub 1 to -12 is not good. That is the lower limit in the Denon AVR. You need to lower the gain on that sub and re-run Audyssey until you get the trim within range (-11.5 or higher).

You never did answer me - are you performing the SPL calibration before every REW session (as outlined in the REW Guide I linked to)?? It seems like you are not because your SPL level varies wildly between sessions. The last measurements were peaking at almost 112db...are you really measuring that loud??

Are your subs gain matched or level matched?

Are you surround speakers different from you surround backs? The crossover is quite a bit higher on your surrounds. You aren't lowering those to 80hz are you?

You also still aren't posting your graphs with the correct limits. Please review my recommended limits.

As far as your graphs go, I downloaded your MDAT and you're definitely getting better, but there is still room for improvement. You have a large null from ~20hz-27hz of about 10db. This can most likely be fixed by placement, phase or distance adjustments.

I'm not sure why you mention a 20db drop at 15hz...I'm not seeing that at all.

Why do you think you need a phase inverter? For one, you have a MiniDSP...and two, you could just swap the wires running to your driver. 

Besides that, it's looking really good!

Here's your Center + Subs graph with the correct limits (however, I had to raise the upper limit to accommodate your insane measurement level  ):


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Audyssey setting sub 1 to -12 is not good. That is the lower limit in the Denon AVR. You need to lower the gain on that sub and re-run Audyssey until you get the trim within range (-11.5 or higher).
> 
> You never did answer me - are you performing the SPL calibration before every REW session (as outlined in the REW Guide I linked to)?? It seems like you are not because your SPL level varies wildly between sessions. The last measurements were peaking at almost 112db...are you really measuring that loud??
> 
> ...


I thought I had set it correctly. I clicked on the box you said to and selected 

I have been setting the SPL everytime. The way i have been setting them is to use the SPL meter that pops up and raise the volume on my AVR until I get close to the 75db, and then try and punch in the closest number I can to the fluctuating SPL number. The only difference this time was mic placement which is closer to the center of the horn (heightwise).

The 20db drop is only on the rear sub and can be seen in the individual sweep (in the post right after my corrected post it is around 25Hz). Subs are level matched the closest I could since the level keeps changing for the tone (this also resulted in being gain matched).

As far as the phase. I am hoping it will get the 2 subs to be closer together on the low end. I have Speakon connectors for the speakers, and XLRs for the inputs to the amp and I didn't want to get into taking the cables apart for re wiring them to see if there is a phase problem. I hadn't even though about inverting the phase in the MiniDSP since I haven't hooked them up for the bass yet... That is a great idea. :T

The side surrounds are Klipsch KP3002 speakers which are actually a higher end Pro model than my rear surrounds which are Klipsch Heresy HIPs. I am letting the Denon set the crossover to the subs.

I will try and re run all the sweeps again Sunday, but it will most likely be Monday as I have a contractor over all day Sunday doing some work. I appreciate your patience with me, and assistance in getting this fine tuned. :T


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

ellisr63 said:


> I thought I had set it correctly. I clicked on the box you said to and selected


Are you hitting "Apply"? 



> I have been setting the SPL everytime. The way i have been setting them is to use the SPL meter that pops up and raise the volume on my AVR until I get close to the 75db, and then try and punch in the closest number I can to the fluctuating SPL number. The only difference this time was mic placement which is closer to the center of the horn (heightwise).


This is not clear....are you using a separate, handheld SPL meter?? If not, you're doing it wrong. 

It's outlined in the guide, but basically you hold the SPL meter so it's mic is right next to your measurement mic, then you input the level from the handheld SPL meter into the box.



> Subs are level matched the closest I could since the level keeps changing for the tone (this also resulted in being gain matched).


Level matching and gain matching are two different things.

Level matching is matching the SPL from each sub (usually to 72db each) at the MLP. Gain matching is making sure both subs are outputting at the exact same level. See this post on AVS. 



> As far as the phase. I am hoping it will get the 2 subs to be closer together on the low end. I have Speakon connectors for the speakers, and XLRs for the inputs to the amp and I didn't want to get into taking the cables apart for re wiring them to see if there is a phase problem. I hadn't even though about inverting the phase in the MiniDSP since I haven't hooked them up for the bass yet... That is a great idea. :T


If I remember correctly, you have one sub up front and one in back, correct? If so, you will most likely see a big increase in SPL by reversing phase on the rear sub. If swapping phase on the one sub results in a higher SPL at the MLP, then that is the setting you want to stick with.

That being said, when you have subs that are not equidistant to the MLP, you will see the most benefit by leaving both at "0" phase and time-aligning the rear sub using the delay in your MiniDSP. This is a far superior method than just swapping phase because it will align the subs at all frequencies whereas swapping phase only aligns them at a narrow band of frequencies.



> The side surrounds are Klipsch KP3002 speakers which are actually a higher end Pro model than my rear surrounds which are Klipsch Heresy HIPs. I am letting the Denon set the crossover to the subs.


Cool, just wanted to make sure you weren't lowering that crossover because you could damage your speakers.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> Are you hitting "Apply"?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes I was hitting apply. 

I have a separate SPL meter but was using the one in REW. I will use my SPL meter next time. Should I raise the level of the AVR to get me to 75db on the meter?

Both of my subs are at identical levels on the amp... Should I just leave them there (after I lower them a bit? This would be gain matched, correct?

I will hopefully have the Phase inverter today... I will install it and then run REW again. The openings of the sub are pretty close to being equal distances from the MLP... I could move the couch forward if that is the correct direction to equalize them, but not rearward. I will measure for exact measurements and see what I come up with.

Hopefully I will be able to get something done today on the system. :T


----------



## The Yeti (Jan 23, 2013)

It doesn't really matter what SPL your MV is at when you calibrate the SPL, but 75db would be fine. What I do is set the MV to -15, then run the calibration. I usually get a reading around 87db.

You can't use the SPL meter in REW until it is calibrated against an outside source. All covered in the Guide...which you are reading, right?? 

Having your subs equidistant to the MLP is the best solution, and sounds like you're pretty much there.

When you invert phase on the rear sub, look to see if the SPL at the MLP drops. If it does, leave the rear sub at 0. You want max SPL at the MLP.


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

The Yeti said:


> It doesn't really matter what SPL your MV is at when you calibrate the SPL, but 75db would be fine. What I do is set the MV to -15, then run the calibration. I usually get a reading around 87db.
> 
> You can't use the SPL meter in REW until it is calibrated against an outside source. All covered in the Guide...which you are reading, right??
> 
> ...


Gotcha... I will post up the results (I am hoping the phase inverting gives me a nice boost on the rear sub as that should take the listening experience to the next level). :T


----------



## NBPk402 (Feb 21, 2012)

My mic died... I will post up as soon as I get a replacement in. :T


----------

